From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:16:43 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eabd60b1-269e-42e7-b8ee-0447cd34e6b5@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

keakon <kea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> def h2(x=[]):
> ? y = x
> ? y.append(1)
> ? return y + []

> h2() is about 42 times slower than h2([]), but h() is a litter faster
> than h([]).

Are you aware that 'y = x' _doesn't_ make a copy of [], that it
actually points to the same list as x?

My guess is that the slowdown you're seeing is due to the increasing
size of x _per timing iteration_. h2([]) will pass a new list each
time, while h2() will append to the same list _every_ time. The
difference between h & h2 is due to the concatenation of a new list to
the built one: the longer the default list grows, the longer this will
take, as extending a list takes O(k) time, with k being the number of
elements.


From keakon at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:20:28 2010
From: keakon at gmail.com (keakon)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:20:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6eb8894f-ba52-4b47-8986-9fb7f3981da4@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Even this style is 41 times faster than h2():

def i2(x=[]):
  y = x
  if not y: # add this line
    y = []  # add this line
  y.append(1)
  return y + []

print Timer('i2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2, i2').timeit
(TIMES)

Time: 0.00742356919664


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:20:53 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: eabd60b1-269e-42e7-b8ee-0447cd34e6b5@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com
Message-ID: <9d2678d9-a232-4128-90f6-9ffae286ed23@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> keakon <kea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > def h2(x=[]):
> > ? y = x
> > ? y.append(1)
> > ? return y + []
>
> Are you aware that 'y = x' _doesn't_ make a copy of [], that it
> actually points to the same list as x?

Sorry, I meant to suggest trying the following instead:

def h2(x=None):
  if x is None: x = []
  x.append(1)
  return x + []

It's a common idiom to use None as a sentinel for this situation, esp.
where you _don't_ want a default mutable object to be reused.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 00:21:18 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:21:18 -0800
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
In-Reply-To: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1001312121y68cd9c5dk36e3c6c0d4f4d74e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:58 PM, keakon <keakon at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've found strange performance issue when using default value, the
> test code is list below:
>
> from timeit import Timer
>
> def f(x):
> ?y = x
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y
>
> def g(x=[]):
> ?y = []
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y
>
> def h(x=[]):
> ?y = x
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y
>
> def f2(x):
> ?y = x
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y + []
>
> def g2(x=[]):
> ?y = []
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y + []
>
> def h2(x=[]):
> ?y = x
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y + []
>
> TIMES = 10000
> print Timer('f([])','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('g()','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('h([])','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('h()','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('f2([])','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('g2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('h2([])','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('h2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
>
>
> I tested it with Python 2.5.4, 2.6.4 and 3.1.1 on Windows XP, and get
> almost the same result:
> 0.00449247041174
> 0.00439608944712
> 0.00455867994396
> 0.00327471787615
> 0.00791581052899
> 0.00684919452053
> 0.00734311204357
> 0.30974942346
>
> h2() is about 42 times slower than h2([]), but h() is a litter faster
> than h([]).
>
> If change TIMES to 20000, other results are 2 times than before, but h2
> () is 4 times(about 1.2 sec) than before.
>
> Is there any tricks in it?

Are you aware of the following pitfall?:

>>> def foo(a=[]):
...     a.append(7)
...     return a
>>>
>>> print foo()
[7]
>>> print foo()
[7, 7]
>>> print foo()
[7, 7, 7]

i.e. the default argument is only evaluated once (when the function is
defined) and is then reused every call when the caller doesn't provide
a value.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From keakon at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:32:06 2010
From: keakon at gmail.com (keakon)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:32:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: eabd60b1-269e-42e7-b8ee-0447cd34e6b5@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com 
	<9d2678d9-a232-4128-90f6-9ffae286ed23@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e61ec1f9-8ecb-45c3-8a9c-c99ddc2ffc9e@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On 2?1?, ??1?20?, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > keakon <kea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > def h2(x=[]):
> > >   y = x
> > >   y.append(1)
> > >   return y + []
>
> > Are you aware that 'y = x' _doesn't_ make a copy of [], that it
> > actually points to the same list as x?
>
> Sorry, I meant to suggest trying the following instead:
>
> def h2(x=None):
>   if x is None: x = []
>   x.append(1)
>   return x + []
>
> It's a common idiom to use None as a sentinel for this situation, esp.
> where you _don't_ want a default mutable object to be reused.

Thank you, I got it.

The default value is mutable, and can be reused by all each call.
So each call it will append 1 to the default value, that's very
different than C++.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:58:06 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:58:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: eabd60b1-269e-42e7-b8ee-0447cd34e6b5@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com 
	<9d2678d9-a232-4128-90f6-9ffae286ed23@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<e61ec1f9-8ecb-45c3-8a9c-c99ddc2ffc9e@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <804a8f7e-0188-43f4-add9-52f841ceaf1a@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

keakon <kea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> The default value is mutable, and can be reused by all each call.
> So each call it will append 1 to the default value, that's very
> different than C++.

Being different from C++ is one of the many reasons some of us choose
Python ;)

This tends to bite most newcomers, so it's mentioned in the FAQ:
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general/#id52


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 01:05:17 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 06:05:17 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1706.1264996133.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1vh5shyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:22:36 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>> Three of you gave essentially identical answers, but I still do not see
>> how given something like
>>
>> def f(): return 1
>>
>> I differentiate between 'function object at address xxx' and 'int 1'
>> objects.
> 
> In the languages they are talking about, there is no such thing as a
> function with no args.  A function is closer to a mathematical function,
> i.e. a mapping from one type to another, so every function has an arg.

Suppose I have a function that queries a website http://guessmyname.com 
for a list of popular names and returns the most popular name on the 
list. Obviously this name will change from time to time, so I can't just 
get it once and treat the result as a constant. 

In a non-functional language, I'd write it something like this:


def get_popular_name():
    URL = 'http://guessmyname.com'
    data = fetch(URL)
    names = parse(data)
    name = choose(names, 1)
    return name

name = get_popular_name()  # call the function with no argument
f = decorate(get_popular_name)  # treat the function as a 1st class object


How would Haskell coders write it? Something like this?


def get_popular_name(url):
    data = fetch url
    names = parse data
    name = choose name 1
    return name

name = get_popular_name 'http://guessmyname.com'  # call the function
f = decorate get_popular_name  # treat the function as a 1st class object


But now you're needlessly having the caller, rather than the function, 
remember an implementation detail of the get_popular_name function. Since 
the argument couldn't be anything different, I'd immediately think of 
applying partial:

get_popular_name = partial get_popular_name 'http://guessmyname.com'

but now how do I call the new function?

Is this where you say "Monads" and everyone's eyes glaze over?




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 01:15:35 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 06:15:35 GMT
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.06.15.34@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:58:50 -0800, keakon wrote:

> I've found strange performance issue when using default value, the test
> code is list below:
> 
> from timeit import Timer
> 
> def f(x):
>   y = x
>   y.append(1)
>   return y
> 
> def g(x=[]):
>   y = []
>   y.append(1)
>   return y
> 
> def h(x=[]):
>   y = x
>   y.append(1)
>   return y
> 
> def f2(x):
>   y = x
>   y.append(1)
>   return y + []
> 
> def g2(x=[]):
>   y = []
>   y.append(1)
>   return y + []
> 
> def h2(x=[]):
>   y = x
>   y.append(1)
>   return y + []
> 
> TIMES = 10000
> print Timer('f([])','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('g()','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('h([])','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('h()','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('f2([])','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('g2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('h2([])','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('h2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
> 
> 
> I tested it with Python 2.5.4, 2.6.4 and 3.1.1 on Windows XP, and get
> almost the same result:
> 0.00449247041174
> 0.00439608944712
> 0.00455867994396
> 0.00327471787615
> 0.00791581052899
> 0.00684919452053
> 0.00734311204357
> 0.30974942346


You've only run those results once, haven't you?

That is not trustworthy. In a multi-tasking operating system, including 
Windows, some other process might have run for some milliseconds, 
throwing the results off.

More importantly, if you had run it multiple times, you'd see this:


>>> for i in range(7):
...     Timer('h2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
...
0.0190200805664
0.315117120743
0.941411972046
1.56618499756
2.18553495407
2.79832291603
3.44865894318


h2 (and probably h, but I haven't tested it) get slower and slower and 
slower every time you run it.

Why? I'm pretty sure this is in the FAQs, but default values are created 
once, not every time the function is called. So you create a function 
with the default value of []. Call the function, and that list gets 1 
appended to it, so the default value is now [1]. Call the function again, 
and it becomes [1, 1]. And so on, and so on, and so on.

The other functions create a new empty list each time the function is 
called, so you're comparing the time it takes to grow an ever-bigger list 
with the time it takes to create a tiny list.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 01:17:21 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 06:17:21 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>
	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<874om1ydxf.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.06.17.20@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:53:16 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> You don't have to buy my argument, I am not selling it.

It's a figure of speech. You are making an argument others have made 
before, and I don't accept the validity of the argument.


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb  1 01:22:14 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:22:14 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1706.1264996133.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1vh5shyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7x4om18oh5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
> How would Haskell coders write it? Something like this?
>
> def get_popular_name(url):
>     data = fetch url
>     names = parse data
>     name = choose name 1
>     return name

The syntax and types would be different, but ok, something like that.

> name = get_popular_name 'http://guessmyname.com'  # call the function
> f = decorate get_popular_name  # treat the function as a 1st class object

You wouldn't need "decorate".  You'd just say

   f = get_popular_name "http://guessmyname.com"

f is now an "I/O action" which when executed queries the guessmyname site.

> but now how do I call the new function?
> Is this where you say "Monads" and everyone's eyes glaze over?

You'd say something like

   most_popular_name <- f

to invoke the action.  Yes, explaining the difference between
"<-" and "=" involves monads.

You might like the Haskell tutorial http://learnyouahaskell.com .


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 01:27:29 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 06:27:29 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>
	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:30:15 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

>>>>> While braces might be considered redundant they are not when for one
>>>>> reason or another formatting is lost or done incorrectly.
>>>>
>>>> I've heard this argument before, and I don't buy it. Why should we
>>>> expect the editor to correct malformed code?
>>> 
>>> Or a prettyfier. It doesn't matter. The point is that with braces
>>> there *is* redundancy that be used to fix the code.
>>
>> Prettyfiers are significant in languages that allow braces (or
>> begin/end tokens) and indentation to go out of sync. Since that can't
>> happen with Python,
> 
> Yes it can. I *have* seen Python with broken indentation on web pages,
> and good luck sorting it out. Blaming it on "broken tools" is just
> another straw man. 

You're using that term wrong. It looks to me that you don't actually know 
what a straw man argument is. A straw man argument is when somebody 
responds to a deliberately weakened or invalid argument as if it had been 
made by their opponent. You raised the issue that the redundancy which 
prettyfiers exploit are a good reason for preferring braces, so it's not 
a straw man argument.

It's not a straw man to say that you don't need a code prettyfier if 
indentation is significant when you raised the issue of prettyfiers in 
the first place.

I certainly accept that braces + indentation do provide redundancy, and 
if the norm was noisy channels, that redundancy would be valuable. But 
that's not the norm. Most channels don't delete leading whitespace, and 
those noisy channels we do deal with (like web forms) tend to introduce 
far more noise than merely deleting leading whitespace, e.g. word-
wrapping long lines.

The argument that "web pages break indentation, therefore braces are 
better" is a real argument that some people make, but it is very weak. 
Suppose there was a web page that arbitrarily deleted braces out of some 
misplaced sense of security. Would anyone argue that this proves that 
indentation was better and braces were bad? No, of course not -- they 
would say "That website is broken".




> It happens, and if you're learning Python and
> interested in that code you have a problem.

Yes you do.

If you're trying to learn carpentry, and somebody gives you a blunt saw 
that causes the wood to break rather than cut cleanly, you have a 
problem. If you're learning to cook, and they give you a put with a hole 
in it and tell you to make soup in it, you have a problem.

Broken tools lead to problems.


> Snipped the rest, because you start to sound like a zealot. I should've
> know better.

Yeah, whatever.



-- 
Steven


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 01:43:56 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:43:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>
	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com> 
	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <a2803a2d-4b11-4d8c-bf81-4929830f7fdf@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> You're using that term wrong. It looks to me that you don't actually know
> what a straw man argument is. A straw man argument is when somebody
> responds to a deliberately weakened or invalid argument as if it had been
> made by their opponent.

Jeez, Steve, you're beginning to sound like some kind of fallacy
zealot... ;)



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 01:49:13 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:49:13 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1706.1264996133.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1vh5shyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1001312249v237d4280xf297f4afac73f028@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steven at remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:22:36 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>>> Three of you gave essentially identical answers, but I still do not see
>>> how given something like
>>>
>>> def f(): return 1
>>>
>>> I differentiate between 'function object at address xxx' and 'int 1'
>>> objects.
>>
>> In the languages they are talking about, there is no such thing as a
>> function with no args. ?A function is closer to a mathematical function,
>> i.e. a mapping from one type to another, so every function has an arg.
>
> Suppose I have a function that queries a website http://guessmyname.com
> for a list of popular names and returns the most popular name on the
> list. Obviously this name will change from time to time, so I can't just
> get it once and treat the result as a constant.
>
> In a non-functional language, I'd write it something like this:
>
>
> def get_popular_name():
> ? ?URL = 'http://guessmyname.com'
> ? ?data = fetch(URL)
> ? ?names = parse(data)
> ? ?name = choose(names, 1)
> ? ?return name
>
> name = get_popular_name() ?# call the function with no argument
> f = decorate(get_popular_name) ?# treat the function as a 1st class object
>
>
> How would Haskell coders write it?
<snip>
> Is this where you say "Monads" and everyone's eyes glaze over?

Yeah, basically. Your function has side-effects (i.e. it does I/O over
the network), and thus some extra hoops need to be jumped through to
reconcile that with the functional purity of the language. Assuming my
understanding of monads is somewhat correct:

get_popular_name would have the type: IO () -> IO String
i.e. it takes no "real" parameters but does I/O, and returns a String.
"IO" is a generic type, thus IO () is like IO<void>, and IO String is
IO<String> (using Java/C#-like generics syntax).
Wrapping things in IOs (the "IO monad") is how the type system models
that I/O side effects are involved.
So, get_popular_name would end up taking one argument, IO (). Now
where does the caller get an IO () ? Well, the toplevel (i.e. the main
function) is allowed to do IO (otherwise, we couldn't write very
interesting programs), and thus is provided with an IO by the
environment (through some sort of magic). Using this, it passes an IO
() to get_popular_name (or it gets passed down the call stack and
eventually winds up at get_popular_name) and we get back an IO String.
And through some further monad trickery, we make sure that lazy
evaluation is effectively bypassed for the I/O and we are able to rip
the String out of its IO container and pass it to pure functions. And
using the dark magic of "do-notation", we write the parts involving IO
in pseudo-imperative style (the "<-" operator Paul mentioned is part
of that). And there you have it (I think/hope).

Supposedly, in practice, you don't need to know the monad guts of how
the I/O system works in order to use it, you just need to be able to
write do-notation.

Cheers,
Chris
--
I really should read the monad chapters of my copy of "Real World Haskell".
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 02:12:51 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 07:12:51 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>
	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a2803a2d-4b11-4d8c-bf81-4929830f7fdf@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.07.12.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:43:56 -0800, alex23 wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> You're using that term wrong. It looks to me that you don't actually
>> know what a straw man argument is. A straw man argument is when
>> somebody responds to a deliberately weakened or invalid argument as if
>> it had been made by their opponent.
> 
> Jeez, Steve, you're beginning to sound like some kind of fallacy
> zealot... ;)

Death to all those who confuse agumentum ad populum with argumentum ad 
verecundiam!!!


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb  1 02:24:06 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:24:06 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1706.1264996133.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1vh5shyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1710.1265006958.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xk4uxju5l.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
> get_popular_name would have the type: IO () -> IO String

I don't know if it makes the explanation any clearer, but I think that
isn't quite right.  The Python version would have type 
String -> IO String.  The parameterless Haskell version would just be an
I/O action, with type IO String.  IO () is not really involved.


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 03:24:42 2010
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 00:24:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: expy 0.5.1 released
Message-ID: <511580.45863.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi there,

EXPY 0.5.1 released, the exception raising feature is enhanced so that you can raise any builtin exceptions. Custom exceptions will be supported soon.

For more information, see http://expy.sourceforge.net/

EXPY is an expressway to extend Python!

Regards,

Yingjie 


      


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  1 03:34:28 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:34:28 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes?
In-Reply-To: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.

What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.

Stefan


From ps.ohms at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 03:43:29 2010
From: ps.ohms at gmail.com (PS.OHM)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 00:43:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: get error install MySQLdb on Mac OS X
References: <30c0946e-fa6a-4a54-930c-1962d167fffe@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<ee523956-2e53-4efb-8c9e-1cd7ad82993b@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2be17362-8a54-4a04-9671-0a0ff7266e33@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 29, 5:02?am, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 28, 12:53?pm, "PS.OHM" <ps.o... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Guys
>
> > I havegetsomeerrorwhen i install MySQLdb on Mac OS X
>
> > after i key command $python setup.py build
>
> > rusult is
> > :
> > :
> >error: command 'gcc-4.0' failed with exit status 1
>
> > How to config this poblem?
>
> Please show a little bit more of theerror



iME-macbook-pro:MySQL-python-1.2.3c1 iME$ python setup.py build
running build
running build_py
copying MySQLdb/release.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.6/MySQLdb
running build_ext
building '_mysql' extension
gcc-4.0 -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk
-fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -
Dversion_info=(1,2,3,'gamma',1) -D__version__=1.2.3c1 -I/Applications/
MAMP/Library/include/mysql -I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/
Versions/2.6/include/python2.6 -c _mysql.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.3-
fat-2.6/_mysql.o -fno-omit-frame-pointer -D_P1003_1B_VISIBLE -
DSIGNAL_WITH_VIO_CLOSE -DSIGNALS_DONT_BREAK_READ -
DIGNORE_SIGHUP_SIGQUIT -DDONT_DECLARE_CXA_PURE_VIRTUAL
_mysql.c:36:23: error: my_config.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:38:19: error: mysql.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:39:26: error: mysqld_error.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:40:20: error: errmsg.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:76: error: syntax error before ?MYSQL?
_mysql.c:76: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:79: error: syntax error before ?}? token
_mysql.c:79: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
_mysql.c:90: error: syntax error before ?MYSQL_RES?
_mysql.c:90: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:94: error: syntax error before ?}? token
_mysql.c:94: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
_mysql.c:106: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_Exception?:
_mysql.c:120: error: ?c? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:120: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
_mysql.c:120: error: for each function it appears in.)
_mysql.c:123: error: ?CR_MAX_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:131: error: ?CR_COMMANDS_OUT_OF_SYNC? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:132: error: ?ER_DB_CREATE_EXISTS? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:133: error: ?ER_SYNTAX_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:134: error: ?ER_PARSE_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:135: error: ?ER_NO_SUCH_TABLE? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:136: error: ?ER_WRONG_DB_NAME? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:137: error: ?ER_WRONG_TABLE_NAME? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:138: error: ?ER_FIELD_SPECIFIED_TWICE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:139: error: ?ER_INVALID_GROUP_FUNC_USE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:140: error: ?ER_UNSUPPORTED_EXTENSION? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:141: error: ?ER_TABLE_MUST_HAVE_COLUMNS? undeclared (first
use in this function)
_mysql.c:170: error: ?ER_DUP_ENTRY? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:213: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:358: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_Initialize?:
_mysql.c:363: error: ?MYSQL_RES? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:363: error: ?result? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:364: error: ?conn? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:368: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:368: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:370: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:370: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:375: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:445: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_traverse?:
_mysql.c:450: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:451: error: ?arg? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:460: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_clear?:
_mysql.c:462: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:471: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_Initialize?:
_mysql.c:475: error: ?MYSQL? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:475: error: ?conn? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:500: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:503: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:503: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:550: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_CONNECT_TIMEOUT? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:554: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_COMPRESS? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:555: error: ?CLIENT_COMPRESS? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:558: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_NAMED_PIPE? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:560: error: ?MYSQL_INIT_COMMAND? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:562: error: ?MYSQL_READ_DEFAULT_FILE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:564: error: ?MYSQL_READ_DEFAULT_GROUP? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:567: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_LOCAL_INFILE? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_connect?:
_mysql.c:654: error: ?c? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:656: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:667: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_traverse?:
_mysql.c:671: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:672: error: ?arg? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:678: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_clear?:
_mysql.c:680: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:690: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_close?:
_mysql.c:693: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:696: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:718: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_affected_rows?:
_mysql.c:721: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:722: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:752: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_dump_debug_info?:
_mysql.c:756: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:757: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:771: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_autocommit?:
_mysql.c:775: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:783: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:797: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_commit?:
_mysql.c:801: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:806: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:819: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_rollback?:
_mysql.c:823: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:828: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:851: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_next_result?:
_mysql.c:855: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:863: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:936: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_errno?:
_mysql.c:939: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:940: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:952: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_error?:
_mysql.c:955: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:956: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:957: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:970: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_escape_string?:
_mysql.c:976: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1005: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_string_literal?:
_mysql.c:1011: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_escape?:
_mysql.c:1088: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:36:23: error: my_config.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:38:19: _mysql.c:1164: error: syntax error before ?*? token
error: mysql.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_describe?:
_mysql.c:1168: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1168: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:39:26: error: _mysql.c:1170: error: ?args? undeclared (first
use in this function)
mysqld_error.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:1171: error: syntax error before ?)? token_mysql.c:40:20:
 error: _mysql.c:1171: error: syntax error before ?)? token
errmsg.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:1172: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:76: error: syntax error before ?MYSQL?
_mysql.c:76: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:79: error: syntax error before ?}? token
_mysql.c:79: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c:90: error: syntax error before
?MYSQL_RES?
_mysql.c:90: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:94: error: syntax error before ?}? token
_mysql.c:1200: error: syntax error before ?*? token

_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_field_flags?:_mysql.c:94:
warning: data definition has no type or storage class

_mysql.c:1204: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1204: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1206: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:106: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1207: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1207: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1208: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_Exception?:
_mysql.c:120: error: ?c? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:120: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
_mysql.c:120: error: for each function it appears in.)
_mysql.c:123: error: ?CR_MAX_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:131: error: ?CR_COMMANDS_OUT_OF_SYNC? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:132: error: ?ER_DB_CREATE_EXISTS? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:133: error: ?ER_SYNTAX_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:134: error: ?ER_PARSE_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:135: error: ?ER_NO_SUCH_TABLE? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:136: error: ?ER_WRONG_DB_NAME? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:137: error: ?ER_WRONG_TABLE_NAME? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:138: error: ?ER_FIELD_SPECIFIED_TWICE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:139: error: ?ER_INVALID_GROUP_FUNC_USE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:140: error: ?ER_UNSUPPORTED_EXTENSION? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:141: error: ?ER_TABLE_MUST_HAVE_COLUMNS? undeclared (first
use in this function)
_mysql.c:170: error: ?ER_DUP_ENTRY? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:213: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c:1249: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_tuple?:
_mysql.c:1256: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1258: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1262: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:358: error: syntax error before ?*? token

_mysql.c:1274: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_dict?:
_mysql.c:1280: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1280: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_Initialize?:
_mysql.c:363: error: ?MYSQL_RES? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:363: error: ?result? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:364: error: ?conn? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:368: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:368: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:370: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:370: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:375: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c:1282: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1284: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1289: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:445: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_traverse?:
_mysql.c:450: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:451: error: ?arg? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c:460: error: syntax error before ?*?
token

_mysql.c:1313: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_clear?:
_mysql.c:462: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_dict_old?:
_mysql.c:1319: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1319: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1321: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1323: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:471: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1328: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1350: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1354: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql__fetch_row?:
_mysql.c:1361: error: ?MYSQL_ROW? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1361: error: syntax error before ?row?
_mysql.c:1363: error: ?skiprows? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1363: error: ?maxrows? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1365: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1366: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1372: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1373: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_Initialize?:
_mysql.c:1377: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:475: error: ?MYSQL? undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c:475: error: ?conn? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1380: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:500: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:

_mysql.c:1400: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:503: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:503: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_fetch_row?:
_mysql.c:1404: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:550: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_CONNECT_TIMEOUT? undeclared (first use
in this function)_mysql.c:1416: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in
this function)

_mysql.c:1416: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:554: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_COMPRESS? undeclared (first use in
this function)

_mysql.c:555: error: ?CLIENT_COMPRESS? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:558: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_NAMED_PIPE? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:560: error: ?MYSQL_INIT_COMMAND? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:562: error: ?MYSQL_READ_DEFAULT_FILE? undeclared (first use
in this function)_mysql.c:1419: error: syntax error before ?)? token

_mysql.c:1419: error: syntax error before ?)? token_mysql.c:564:
error: ?MYSQL_READ_DEFAULT_GROUP? undeclared (first use in this
function)

_mysql.c:567: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_LOCAL_INFILE? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_connect?:
_mysql.c:654: error: ?c? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:656: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1427: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:667: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_traverse?:
_mysql.c:671: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:672: error: ?arg? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:678: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_clear?:
_mysql.c:680: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1507: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:690: error: syntax error before ?*? token_mysql.c: In
function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_character_set_name?:

_mysql.c:1511: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1512: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_close?:
_mysql.c:693: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c:696: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_get_client_info?:
_mysql.c:1603: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:718: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_affected_rows?:
_mysql.c:721: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1613: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_host_info?:

_mysql.c:1616: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1617: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1618: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast_mysql.c:722: error: ?self?
undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1628: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_proto_info?:
_mysql.c:1631: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1632: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1643: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_server_info?:
_mysql.c:1646: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1647: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1648: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1659: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_info?:
_mysql.c:1663: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1664: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1665: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:752: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_dump_debug_info?:
_mysql.c:756: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:757: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:

_mysql.c:1694: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_insert_id?:
_mysql.c:1697: error: ?my_ulonglong? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1697: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:1698: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c:1699: error: ?self? undeclared (first
use in this function)

_mysql.c:771: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_autocommit?:
_mysql.c:775: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1701: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c:783: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1712: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_kill?:

_mysql.c:1717: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c:1718: error: ?self? undeclared (first
use in this function)

_mysql.c:797: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_commit?:
_mysql.c:801: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:806: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1735: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_field_count?:
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:819: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_rollback?:
_mysql.c:823: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:828: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:851: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_next_result?:
_mysql.c:855: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:863: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:936: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_errno?:
_mysql.c:939: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:940: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:952: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_error?:
_mysql.c:955: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:956: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:957: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:970: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_escape_string?:
_mysql.c:976: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1005: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_string_literal?:
_mysql.c:1011: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_escape?:
_mysql.c:1088: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1164: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_describe?:
_mysql.c:1168: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1168: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1170: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1171: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1171: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1172: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1200: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_field_flags?:
_mysql.c:1204: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1204: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1206: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1207: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1207: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1208: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1249: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_tuple?:
_mysql.c:1256: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1258: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1262: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1274: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_dict?:
_mysql.c:1280: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1280: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1282: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1284: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1289: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1313: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_dict_old?:
_mysql.c:1319: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1319: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1321: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1323: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1328: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1738: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1350: error: syntax error before ?*? token

_mysql.c:1354: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1739: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql__fetch_row?:
_mysql.c:1361: error: ?MYSQL_ROW? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1361: error: syntax error before ?row?
_mysql.c:1363: error: ?skiprows? undeclared (first use in this
function)

_mysql.c:1363: error: ?maxrows? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1365: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1366: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1752: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1372: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1373: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1377: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1380: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1400: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_fetch_row?:
_mysql.c:1404: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1416: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1416: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1419: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1419: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1427: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1507: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_character_set_name?:
_mysql.c:1511: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1512: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_get_client_info?:
_mysql.c:1603: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1613: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_host_info?:
_mysql.c:1616: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1617: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1618: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1628: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_proto_info?:
_mysql.c:1631: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1632: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_num_fields?:
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1643: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_server_info?:
_mysql.c:1646: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1647: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1648: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1659: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_info?:
_mysql.c:1663: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1664: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1665: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1694: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_insert_id?:
_mysql.c:1697: error: ?my_ulonglong? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1697:_mysql.c:1755: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:1756: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1756: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1757: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1768: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_num_rows?:
_mysql.c:1771: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1772: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1772: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1773: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1797: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_ping?:
_mysql.c:1801: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1802: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1820: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_query?:
_mysql.c:1825: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1826: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1850: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_select_db?:
_mysql.c:1855: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1856: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1872: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_shutdown?:
_mysql.c:1876: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1877: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1899: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_stat?:
_mysql.c:1903: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1904: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1906: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1920: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_store_result?:
_mysql.c:1924: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1926: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1927: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1932: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1961: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_thread_id?:
_mysql.c:1965: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1966: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1981: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_use_result?:
_mysql.c:1985: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1987: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1988: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1993: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2011: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_dealloc?:
_mysql.c:2015: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2025: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_repr?:
_mysql.c:2028: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
 error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:1698: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2042: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1699: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_data_seek?:
_mysql.c:2046: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1701: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2047: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2047: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2048: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2057: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_row_seek?:
_mysql.c:2061: error: ?MYSQL_ROW_OFFSET? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:2061: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:2062: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2063: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2063: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2064: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2069: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2079: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_row_tell?:
_mysql.c:2082: error: ?MYSQL_ROW_OFFSET? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:2082: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:2083: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in thi_mysql.c: At
top level:s function)

_mysql.c:1712: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_kill?:
_mysql.c:1717: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2084: error: syntax error before ?)? token

_mysql.c:2084: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1718: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2085: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2090: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c: At top level:

_mysql.c:1735: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:2096: error: syntax error before ?*? token_mysql.c: In
function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_field_count?:

_mysql.c:1738: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1739: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_dealloc?:

_mysql.c:2098: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c: At top level:

_mysql.c:1752: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_num_fields?:
_mysql.c:2106: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1755: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_repr?:
_mysql.c:1756: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2110: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1756: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1757: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1768: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_num_rows?:
_mysql.c:1771: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1772: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1772: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1773: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1797: error: syntax error before ?*? token_mysql.c: At top
level:
_mysql.c:2330: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2337: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2344: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2351: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2358: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2421: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ResultObject?
_mysql.c:2433: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_getattr?:
_mysql.c:2438: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2438: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2438: warning: passing argument 2 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2438: warning: passing argument 3 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2442: warning: passing argument 1 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2443: error: ?struct PyMemberDef? has no member named ?open?
_mysql.c:2450: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2451: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_GetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2453: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2461: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_getattr?:
_mysql.c:2466: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2466: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2466: warning: passing argument 2 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2466: warning: passing argument 3 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2476: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2477: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_GetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2479: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2487: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_setattr?:
_mysql.c:2491: error: ?v? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2502: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2502: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2503: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2503: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2503: warning: passing argument 3 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2505: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2512: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_setattr?:
_mysql.c:2516: error: ?v? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2527: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2527: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2528: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2528: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2528: warning: passing argument 3 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2530: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type

_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_ping?:
_mysql.c:1801: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1802: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1820: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_query?:
_mysql.c:1825: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1826: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1850: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_select_db?:
_mysql.c:1855: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1856: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1872: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_shutdown?:
_mysql.c:1876: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1877: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1899: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_stat?:
_mysql.c:1903: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1904: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1906: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1920: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_store_result?:
_mysql.c:1924: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1926: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1927: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1932: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1961: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_thread_id?:
_mysql.c:1965: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1966: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1981: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_use_result?:
_mysql.c:1985: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1987: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1988: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1993: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2011: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_dealloc?:
_mysql.c:2015: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2025: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_repr?:
_mysql.c:2028: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2042: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_data_seek?:
_mysql.c:2046: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2047: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2047: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2048: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2057: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_row_seek?:
_mysql.c:2061: error: ?MYSQL_ROW_OFFSET? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:2061: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:2062: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2063: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2063: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2064: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2069: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2079: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_row_tell?:
_mysql.c:2082: error: ?MYSQL_ROW_OFFSET? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:2082: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:2083: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2084: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2084: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2085: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2090: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2096: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_dealloc?:
_mysql.c:2098: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2106: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_repr?:
_mysql.c:2110: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2330: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2337: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2344: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2351: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2358: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2421: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ResultObject?
_mysql.c:2433: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_getattr?:
_mysql.c:2438: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2438: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2438: warning: passing argument 2 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2438: warning: passing argument 3 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2442: warning: passing argument 1 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2443: error: ?struct PyMemberDef? has no member named ?open?
_mysql.c:2450: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2451: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_GetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2453: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2461: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_getattr?:
_mysql.c:2466: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2466: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2466: warning: passing argument 2 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2466: warning: passing argument 3 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2476: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2477: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_GetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2479: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2487: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_setattr?:
_mysql.c:2491: error: ?v? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2502: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2502: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2503: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2503: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2503: warning: passing argument 3 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2505: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2512: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_setattr?:
_mysql.c:2516: error: ?v? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2527: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2527: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2528: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2528: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2528: warning: passing argument 3 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2530: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
lipo: can't figure out the architecture type of: /var/folders/o5/
o5kYdZHuE3uFkIwBSAbeXE+++TI/-Tmp-//cctMmmFT.out
error: command 'gcc-4.0' failed with exit status 1


From 54wutong at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 04:17:09 2010
From: 54wutong at gmail.com (Stephen.Wu)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:17:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
Message-ID: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
if targetStr in tmp:
    print "find it"
else:
    print "not find"
file.close()

I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  1 04:23:31 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:23:31 -0800
Subject: gmtime
In-Reply-To: <62938b5b-7eda-426c-b91d-3c7061840b2d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <62938b5b-7eda-426c-b91d-3c7061840b2d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B669D93.4070609@islandtraining.com>

gazza wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to discover how to obtain the correct time of say CST/
> America and EST/America in python?
>
> Any help on this would be appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Garyc
>   
The datetime module should give you all you need.

Gary Herron




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 04:26:55 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:26:55 -0800
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
In-Reply-To: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002010126n7602495dlbf9cfc90755c8825@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wutong at gmail.com> wrote:
> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> if targetStr in tmp:
> ? ?print "find it"
> else:
> ? ?print "not find"
> file.close()
>
> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?

If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  1 04:29:20 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:29:20 -0800
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
In-Reply-To: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B669EF0.800@islandtraining.com>

Stephen.Wu wrote:
> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> if targetStr in tmp:
>     print "find it"
> else:
>     print "not find"
> file.close()
>
> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
>   

Python has no specific limit on string size other than memory size and 
perhaps 32 bit address space and so on.  However, if your file size is 
even a fraction of that size, you should not attempt to read it all into 
memory at once.  Is there not a way to process your file in batches of a 
reasonable size?

Gary Herron




From 54wutong at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 04:33:09 2010
From: 54wutong at gmail.com (Stephen.Wu)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:33:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1714.1265016422.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3c67877-fe84-4b5a-bdc4-44d9dd93ba7a@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 5:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wut... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> > if targetStr in tmp:
> > ? ?print "find it"
> > else:
> > ? ?print "not find"
> > file.close()
>
> > I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> > could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
> If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
> MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
> applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

actually, I just use file.read(length) way, i just want to know what
exactly para of length I should set, I'm afraid length doesn't equal
to the amount of physical memory after trials...


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  1 04:45:28 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:45:28 +0100
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
In-Reply-To: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b66a2b8$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Stephen.Wu, 01.02.2010 10:17:
> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> if targetStr in tmp:
>     print "find it"
> else:
>     print "not find"
> file.close()
> 
> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?

Others have already pointed out that reading the entire file into memory is
not a good idea. Try reading chunks repeatedly instead.

As it appears that you simply try to find out if a file contains a specific
byte sequence, you might find acora interesting:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/acora

Also note that there are usually platform optimised tools available to
search content in files, e.g. grep. It's basically impossible to beat their
raw speed even with hand-tuned Python code, so running the right tool using
the subprocess module might be a solution.

Stefan


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  1 05:14:42 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:14:42 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002010214w115bab28ncfce5f3138f54f40@mail.gmail.com>

> PEP 3147 has just been posted, proposing that, beginning in release
> 3.2 (and possibly 2.7) compiled .pyc and .pyo files be placed in a
> directory with a .pyr extension. The reason is so that compiled
> versions of a program can coexist, which isn't possible now.
>
> Frankly, I think this is a really good idea, although I've got a few
> comments.
>
> 1. Apple's MAC OS X should be mentioned, since 10.5 (and presumably
> 10.6) ship with both Python release 2.3 and 2.5 installed.
>
> 2. I think the proposed logic is too complex. If this is installed in
> 3.2, then that release should simply store its .pyc file in the .pyr
> directory, without the need for either a command line switch or an
> environment variable (both are mentioned in the PEP.)
>
> 3. Tool support. There are tools that look for the .pyc files; these
> need to be upgraded somehow. The ones that ship with Python should, of
> course, be fixed with the PEP, but there are others.
>
> 4. I'm in favor of putting the source in the .pyr directory as well,
> but that's got a couple more issues. One is tool support, which is
> likely to be worse for source, and the other is some kind of algorithm
> for identifying which source goes with which object.

I also think the PEP is a great idea and proposes a solution to a real
problem. But I also hear the 'directory clutter' argument and I'm
really concerned too, having all these extra directories around (and
quite a large number of them indeed!). How about this scheme:

1. install python source files to a shared (among python
installations) location /this/is/shared
2. when python X.Y imports a source file from /this/is/shared it will
create pyc files in its private area /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/
Time comparison would be between /this/is/shared/x.py and
/usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/x.pyc, for instance.

Obviously pythonX.Y needs to know the path to /this/is/shared so it
can import modules from there, but this can be controlled by an
environment variable. There would be only .py files in
/this/is/shared.

Linux distro packagers would only offer a single python-myapp to
install and it would only contain python source, and the
version-specific pyc files would be created the first time the
application is used by python. In /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages
there would be only pyc files with magic number matching python X.Y.

So, basically nothing would change only the location of py and pyc
files would be different from current behavior, but the same algorithm
would be run to determine which one to load, when to create a pyc
file, when to ignore the old one, etc.

What would be wrong with this setup?

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 05:19:39 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 02:19:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: User-defined exceptions from 2.6
Message-ID: <12ef62c2-b291-414d-ad58-c18c2811379d@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Which is the best way to create user-defined exceptions since that
*BaseException.message* is deprecated in Python 2.6 ?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb  1 05:25:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:25:15 +0100
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer daemon
In-Reply-To: <op.u7a9tmvxx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <1e689e5c-8e2a-4896-b867-717316fa783e@o26g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7a9tmvxx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <4B66AC0B.8050404@sequans.com>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:54:23 -0300, Thomas Allen 
> <thomasmallen at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>> I have a script that runs an instance of SimpleXMLRPCServer and in
>> general it works as expected. In its __del__, it is supposed to clean
>> up its PID file (written on boot). I have two problems with this
>> server instance: The first is that tt doesn't always clean up its PID
>> file; is there a more reliable way to do this than how I am currently?
>> The second is that when it does crash, I don't know about it...what
>> would be sufficient as a "keep-alive" script to restart it? I suppose
>> I could use something like EventMachine (already installed on my
>> server) to watch the PID file if it were deleted reliably.
>
> I agree with the recommendation of using some daemon library; doing it 
> right is better left to the experts :)
> But if you can't or don't want to alter your code so much, I suggest:
>
>  - use atexit.register, instead of __del__, to delete the PID file
>  - keep a lock on the pid file; if a second instance is able to write 
> to it, it means it's an orphan from a previous, aborted run. (Checking 
> whether a process with such pid exists is not enough - pids are 
> recycled rather fast)
>
see also http://code.activestate.com/recipes/278731/

JM


From rohitraj007 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 05:26:13 2010
From: rohitraj007 at gmail.com (Rohit Roger$)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:56:13 +0530
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 7 *
In-Reply-To: <4755336292109192622@unknownmsgid>
References: <4755336292109192622@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <aa762f631002010226q25956058se80c49560e652400@mail.gmail.com>

Hello
Help for datetime module

Source code is :
*from *datetime *import *datetime
d = datetime(datetime.now().year, datetime.now().month, datetime.now().day,
11, 59, 0 )
print d


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:44 PM, <python-list-request at python.org> wrote:

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>
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>        http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        python-list-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        python-list-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: whassup? builtins? python3000? Naah can't be right?
>      (Andrej Mitrovic)
>   2. gmtime (gazza)
>   3. Re: A performance issue when using default value (keakon)
>   4. Re: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes?
>      (Stefan Behnel)
>   5. how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Stephen.Wu)
>   6. Re: gmtime (Gary Herron)
>   7. Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Chris Rebert)
>   8. Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Gary Herron)
>   9. Re: Keyboard input (Dennis Lee Bieber)
>  10. Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Stephen.Wu)
>  11. Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Stefan Behnel)
>  12. Re: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format (Daniel Fetchinson)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com>
> To:
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:01:57 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: whassup? builtins? python3000? Naah can't be right?
> Hey, it's really simple! Just like the excerpt from the Learning
> Python book says:
>
> "Really, the built-in scope is just a built-in module called builtins,
> but
> you have to import builtins to query built-ins because the name
> builtins is not itself
> built-in...."
>
> :)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: gazza <burslem2001 at yahoo.com>
> To:
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:27:46 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: gmtime
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to discover how to obtain the correct time of say CST/
> America and EST/America in python?
>
> Any help on this would be appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Garyc
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: keakon <keakon at gmail.com>
> To:
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:20:28 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: A performance issue when using default value
> Even this style is 41 times faster than h2():
>
> def i2(x=[]):
>  y = x
>  if not y: # add this line
>    y = []  # add this line
>  y.append(1)
>  return y + []
>
> print Timer('i2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2, i2').timeit
> (TIMES)
>
> Time: 0.00742356919664
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de>
> To:
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:34:28 +0100
> Subject: Re: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes?
> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
> > I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
> > I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
> > (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
> > original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>
> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Stephen.Wu" <54wutong at gmail.com>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:17:09 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> if targetStr in tmp:
>    print "find it"
> else:
>    print "not find"
> file.close()
>
> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com>
> To: "python-list at python.org" <python-list at python.org>
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:23:31 -0800
> Subject: Re: gmtime
> gazza wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to discover how to obtain the correct time of say CST/
>> America and EST/America in python?
>>
>> Any help on this would be appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Garyc
>>
>>
> The datetime module should give you all you need.
>
> Gary Herron
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com>
> To: "Stephen.Wu" <54wutong at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:26:55 -0800
> Subject: Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wutong at gmail.com> wrote:
> > tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> > if targetStr in tmp:
> >    print "find it"
> > else:
> >    print "not find"
> > file.close()
> >
> > I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> > could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
> If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
> MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
> applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com>
> To:
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:29:20 -0800
> Subject: Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> Stephen.Wu wrote:
>
>> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
>> if targetStr in tmp:
>>    print "find it"
>> else:
>>    print "not find"
>> file.close()
>>
>> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
>> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Python has no specific limit on string size other than memory size and
> perhaps 32 bit address space and so on.  However, if your file size is even
> a fraction of that size, you should not attempt to read it all into memory
> at once.  Is there not a way to process your file in batches of a reasonable
> size?
>
> Gary Herron
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:31:25 -0800
> Subject: Re: Keyboard input
> On 31 Jan 2010 22:40:55 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:10:34 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:51:46 +0000, "Mr.SpOOn" <mr.spoon21 at gmail.com>
> > > declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> > >
> > >> 2010/1/29 Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>:
> > >> >
> > >> > That's strange. If you're using Linux, make sure you have the
> > >> > readline package installed.
> > >>
> > >> I'm using Linux. Ubuntu. I checked on synaptic and I have
> > >> readline-common. Do you mean something else?
> > >>
> > >     But was your Python /built/ using readline?
> >
> >
> > How do you ensure that it is?
>
>        Well... I think the practice on the Linux variants is to set various
> options when building Python locally. I'm on WinXP and rely upon the
> packagers to build with everything available <G> (and may need to check
> the documentation of those builds as described by the packagers)
>
>        It may mean ensuring not only that the runtime library is present,
> but that the development library (C-language header files, etc.) are
> installed.
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Stephen.Wu" <54wutong at gmail.com>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:33:09 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> On Feb 1, 5:26 pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wut... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> > > if targetStr in tmp:
> > >    print "find it"
> > > else:
> > >    print "not find"
> > > file.close()
> >
> > > I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> > > could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
> >
> > If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
> > MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
> > applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > --http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> actually, I just use file.read(length) way, i just want to know what
> exactly para of length I should set, I'm afraid length doesn't equal
> to the amount of physical memory after trials...
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:45:28 +0100
> Subject: Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> Stephen.Wu, 01.02.2010 10:17:
> > tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> > if targetStr in tmp:
> >     print "find it"
> > else:
> >     print "not find"
> > file.close()
> >
> > I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> > could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
> Others have already pointed out that reading the entire file into memory is
> not a good idea. Try reading chunks repeatedly instead.
>
> As it appears that you simply try to find out if a file contains a specific
> byte sequence, you might find acora interesting:
>
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/acora
>
> Also note that there are usually platform optimised tools available to
> search content in files, e.g. grep. It's basically impossible to beat their
> raw speed even with hand-tuned Python code, so running the right tool using
> the subprocess module might be a solution.
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com>
> To: Python <python-list at python.org>
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:14:42 +0100
> Subject: Re: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
> > PEP 3147 has just been posted, proposing that, beginning in release
> > 3.2 (and possibly 2.7) compiled .pyc and .pyo files be placed in a
> > directory with a .pyr extension. The reason is so that compiled
> > versions of a program can coexist, which isn't possible now.
> >
> > Frankly, I think this is a really good idea, although I've got a few
> > comments.
> >
> > 1. Apple's MAC OS X should be mentioned, since 10.5 (and presumably
> > 10.6) ship with both Python release 2.3 and 2.5 installed.
> >
> > 2. I think the proposed logic is too complex. If this is installed in
> > 3.2, then that release should simply store its .pyc file in the .pyr
> > directory, without the need for either a command line switch or an
> > environment variable (both are mentioned in the PEP.)
> >
> > 3. Tool support. There are tools that look for the .pyc files; these
> > need to be upgraded somehow. The ones that ship with Python should, of
> > course, be fixed with the PEP, but there are others.
> >
> > 4. I'm in favor of putting the source in the .pyr directory as well,
> > but that's got a couple more issues. One is tool support, which is
> > likely to be worse for source, and the other is some kind of algorithm
> > for identifying which source goes with which object.
>
> I also think the PEP is a great idea and proposes a solution to a real
> problem. But I also hear the 'directory clutter' argument and I'm
> really concerned too, having all these extra directories around (and
> quite a large number of them indeed!). How about this scheme:
>
> 1. install python source files to a shared (among python
> installations) location /this/is/shared
> 2. when python X.Y imports a source file from /this/is/shared it will
> create pyc files in its private area /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/
> Time comparison would be between /this/is/shared/x.py and
> /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/x.pyc, for instance.
>
> Obviously pythonX.Y needs to know the path to /this/is/shared so it
> can import modules from there, but this can be controlled by an
> environment variable. There would be only .py files in
> /this/is/shared.
>
> Linux distro packagers would only offer a single python-myapp to
> install and it would only contain python source, and the
> version-specific pyc files would be created the first time the
> application is used by python. In /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages
> there would be only pyc files with magic number matching python X.Y.
>
> So, basically nothing would change only the location of py and pyc
> files would be different from current behavior, but the same algorithm
> would be run to determine which one to load, when to create a pyc
> file, when to ignore the old one, etc.
>
> What would be wrong with this setup?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From gjango.py at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 05:35:06 2010
From: gjango.py at gmail.com (guptha)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 02:35:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Any Python Module to  send ring tones from  PC to mobile via GSM 
	modem
Message-ID: <2c57270e-75a9-471e-b679-c15b9c689c07@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi group,
Is there any python module available which sends ring tones from our
PC to mobile phone using GSM Modem.
I googled in vain to find a solution .I can  find few modules like
pygsm ,singshotsms by which only sms is send .I could appreciate if
some one helps me to find a way to send ring tones .

Thanks
Ganesh


From tino at wildenhain.de  Mon Feb  1 06:07:36 2010
From: tino at wildenhain.de (Tino Wildenhain)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:07:36 +0100
Subject: Any Python Module to  send ring tones from  PC to mobile via
	GSM 	modem
In-Reply-To: <2c57270e-75a9-471e-b679-c15b9c689c07@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <2c57270e-75a9-471e-b679-c15b9c689c07@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B66B5F8.9020506@wildenhain.de>

Hi Ganesh,

Am 01.02.2010 11:35, schrieb guptha:
> Hi group,
> Is there any python module available which sends ring tones from our
> PC to mobile phone using GSM Modem.
> I googled in vain to find a solution .I can  find few modules like
> pygsm ,singshotsms by which only sms is send .I could appreciate if
> some one helps me to find a way to send ring tones .

If you really want to send via GSM (e.g. over the air to another Phone)
it seems you need to generate an MMS instead of SMS.

If thats not the case and you only want to upload tones to your phone
via wire/bluetooth, obex should be the key to find more information on
how to do that.

Regards
Tino

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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 06:14:13 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:14:13 +0100
Subject: how to decode rtf characterset ?
Message-ID: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>

hello,

I want to translate rtf files to unicode strings.
I succeeded in remove all the tags,
but now I'm stucked to the special accent characters,
like :

"V??r"

the character "?" is represented by the string r"\'f3",
or in bytes: 92, 39,102, 51

so I think I need a way to translate that into the string r"\xf3"
but I can't find a way to accomplish that.

a
Any suggestions are very welcome.

thanks,
Stef Mientki


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From bblais at bryant.edu  Mon Feb  1 06:27:27 2010
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:27:27 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
In-Reply-To: <f604188c1001311811t5e6a176ew86e341c1b0ab5fdb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B449B6E5-9A45-4D7F-A694-9E2FA0B54A4E@bryant.edu>
	<f604188c1001311811t5e6a176ew86e341c1b0ab5fdb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>

> On Jan 31, 2010, at 23:05 , John Posner wrote:
>
>> Try commenting out this statement:
>>
>>    self.turtle.tracer(False)
>>
>> That helps on Python 2.6.4.


interesting.  It seems as if the tracer property is a global one:

In [1]:t1=Turtle()

In [2]:t1.tracer()
Out[2]:1

In [3]:t1.tracer(False)

In [4]:t1.tracer()
Out[4]:0

In [5]:t2=Turtle()

In [6]:t2.tracer()
Out[6]:0

In [7]:t2.tracer(True)

In [8]:t1.tracer()
Out[8]:1

looks like I need to set the tracer manually.

however, even if the tracer is off, shouldn't it still draw the  
line?  when I put in the T.tracer(True) it works, but I shouldn't  
need to I think.


On Jan 31, 2010, at 21:11 , kirby urner wrote:

> I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir.

Turtle is given in turtle.py.  I should have subclassed it, but I was  
being lazy.  :)

thanks for the fast replies!


			bb


> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Brian Blais <bblais at bryant.edu>  
> wrote:
>> I'm on Python 2.5, but using the updated turtle.py Version 1.0.1 -  
>> 24. 9.
>> 2009.  The following script draws 5 circles, which it is supposed  
>> to, but
>> then doesn't draw the second turtle which is supposed to simply move
>> forward.  Any ideas?
>> from turtle import *
>> from numpy.random import randint
>> resetscreen()
>> class Circle(object):
>>     def __init__(self,x,y,r,color):
>>         self.x=x
>>         self.y=y
>>         self.r=r
>>         self.color=color
>>
>>         self.turtle=Turtle(visible=False)
>>         self.turtle.tracer(False)
>>         self.draw()
>>
>>     def draw(self):
>>         self.turtle.penup()
>>         self.turtle.setposition(self.x,self.y)
>>         self.turtle.setheading(0)
>>         self.turtle.backward(self.r)
>>         self.turtle.pendown()
>>         self.turtle.fill(True)
>>         self.turtle.pencolor("black")
>>         self.turtle.fillcolor(self.color)
>>         self.turtle.circle(self.r)
>>         self.turtle.fill(False)
>>         self.turtle.penup()
>>
>> for i in range(5):
>>     c=Circle(randint(-350,350),randint(-250,250),10,"red")
>>
>>
>> T=Turtle()
>> T.forward(100)
>> T.forward(100)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> bb
>> --
>> Brian Blais
>> bblais at bryant.edu
>> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>> http://bblais.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Edu-sig mailing list
>> Edu-sig at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>>
>>

-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
http://bblais.blogspot.com/



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From gobladoome at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 06:36:00 2010
From: gobladoome at gmail.com (Paul Atkin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:36:00 +1300
Subject: Embedded python 2.6 in C++ problems
Message-ID: <5089497e1002010336k3e3882el451fc4e56946e7cd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 MFC code to add embedded python
scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls do
not work as expected.

The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it was
GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
(PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)

Here's the error I'm getting:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
get_giftcard_purchase_value
    details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
extract_transaction_details_section
    for line in base_details:
TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found

base_details is a string variable and the code runs fine when run from
standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine from the embedded
app.

I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor

Anyone else had issues of this kind?

Thanks,
Paul.
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From gobladoome at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 06:51:48 2010
From: gobladoome at gmail.com (Paul Atkin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:51:48 +1300
Subject: Embedded python 2.6 in C++ problems
Message-ID: <5089497e1002010351s773d5a87pb3df73e20f00f1f5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 MFC code to add embedded python
scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls do
not work as expected.

The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it was
GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
(PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)

Here's the error I'm getting:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
get_giftcard_purchase_value
    details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
extract_transaction_details_section
    for line in base_details:
TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found

base_details is a string variable and the code runs fine when run from
standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine from the embedded
app.

I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor

Anyone else had issues of this kind?

Thanks,
Paul.
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From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Feb  1 07:06:25 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:06:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <hk6g41$uqs$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:30:56 +0100, Martin v. Loewis a ?crit?:
> 
>> Is this a bug in Python 2.6 or a deliberate choice regarding
>> implementation concerns I don't know about?
> 
> It's actually a bug also that you pass an array; doing so *should* give
> the very same error.

Well, if you can give neither an array nor a bytearray to recv_into(), 
what *could* you give it?

recv_into() should simply be fixed to use the new buffer API, as it does 
in 3.x.



From gjango.py at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:39:47 2010
From: gjango.py at gmail.com (guptha)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 04:39:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Any Python Module to send ring tones from PC to mobile via GSM 
	modem
References: <2c57270e-75a9-471e-b679-c15b9c689c07@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1722.1265024091.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8406f031-202a-4245-8038-edf548dbad6c@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,Tino
Thanks for your reply,
My PC is connected with cell phone (through data card) as a modem,and
my OS is Ubuntu
I have to send ring tones from my PC to any other cell phone by using
connected cell phone as a modem (Your first case satisfy my need )
I think with pygsm, it is not possible to send MMS,if so what could be
the apt python module to work with .what about python-gammu?
can any one point me a url which gives detail tutorial on this topic

thanks
ganesh


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 07:45:53 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 12:45:53 GMT
Subject: User-defined exceptions from 2.6
References: <12ef62c2-b291-414d-ad58-c18c2811379d@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0376b953$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:19:39 -0800, Joan Miller wrote:

> Which is the best way to create user-defined exceptions since that
> *BaseException.message* is deprecated in Python 2.6 ?


Inherit from an existing exception.


>>> class MyValueException(ValueError):
...     pass
...
>>>
>>> raise MyValueException("value is impossible, try again")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
__main__.MyValueException: value is impossible, try again



>>> class GenericError(Exception):
...     pass
...
>>> raise GenericError("oops")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
__main__.GenericError: oops


Do you need anything more complicated?


-- 
Steven


From magawake at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:47:02 2010
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:47:02 -0500
Subject: libpcap and python
Message-ID: <1cbd6f831002010447w4a2ab26dve66206919e99391@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I used tcpdump to capture data on my network. I would like to analyze
the data using python -- currently using ethereal and wireshark.

I would like to get certain type of packets (I can get the hex code
for them), what is the best way to do this? Lets say I want to capture
all events of `ping localhost`

TIA


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  1 07:55:28 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:55:28 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.01.07.12.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<a2803a2d-4b11-4d8c-bf81-4929830f7fdf@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.07.12.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hk6j08$8s3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:43:56 -0800, alex23 wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>> You're using that term wrong. It looks to me that you don't actually
>>> know what a straw man argument is. A straw man argument is when
>>> somebody responds to a deliberately weakened or invalid argument as if
>>> it had been made by their opponent.
>> Jeez, Steve, you're beginning to sound like some kind of fallacy
>> zealot... ;)
> 
> Death to all those who confuse agumentum ad populum with argumentum ad 
> verecundiam!!!
> 
> 
Yeah, what did the zealots ever do for us?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  1 07:57:16 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:57:16 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hk5iud$psc$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hk5iud$psc$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hk6j3k$8s3$2@ger.gmane.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 1/31/2010 7:25 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:40:36 -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>>> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au>  wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:28:41 -0800, Ed Keith wrote:
>>>>> In most functional languages you just name a function to access it and
>>>>> you do it ALL the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> for example, in if you have a function 'f' which takes two parameters
>>>>> to call the function and get the result you use:
>>>>>
>>>>>   f 2 3
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want the function itself you use:
>>>>>
>>>>>     f
>>>>
>>>> How do you call a function of no arguments?
>>>
>>> It's not really a function in that case, it's just a named constant.
>>> (Recall that functions don't/can't have side-effects.)
> 
> Three of you gave essentially identical answers, but I still do not see
> how given something like
> 
> def f(): return 1
> 
> I differentiate between 'function object at address xxx' and 'int 1'
> objects.
> 
But in a functional environment you don't need to. That's pretty much
the whole point.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From peloko45 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:59:03 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 04:59:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: User-defined exceptions from 2.6
References: <12ef62c2-b291-414d-ad58-c18c2811379d@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0376b953$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4f599822-4037-4378-93bc-0ffd45ad3e5e@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 1 feb, 12:45, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:19:39 -0800, Joan Miller wrote:
> > Which is the best way to create user-defined exceptions since that
> > *BaseException.message* is deprecated in Python 2.6 ?
>
> Inherit from an existing exception.
>
> >>> class MyValueException(ValueError):
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...
>
> >>> raise MyValueException("value is impossible, try again")
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> __main__.MyValueException: value is impossible, try again
>
> >>> class GenericError(Exception):
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...>>> raise GenericError("oops")
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> __main__.GenericError: oops
>
> Do you need anything more complicated?
>
It's enought, thanks!


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Mon Feb  1 08:36:37 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:36:37 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
> 
> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
> 

of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)

I mean: I want to walk with a Python script through the parsed 
tree HTML and modify here and there things  (auto alt tags from 
DB/similar, link corrections, text sections/translated 
sentences... due to HTML code and content checks.)

Then I want to output the changed tree - but as close to the 
original format as far as possible. No changes to my white space 
identation, etc..  Only lokal changes, where really tags where 
changed.

Thats similiar like that what a good HTML editor does: After you 
made little changes, it doesn't reformat/re-spit-out your whole 
code layout from tree/attribute logic only. you have lokal changes 
only.
But a simple HTML editor like that in Mozilla-Seamonkey outputs a 
whole new HTML, produces the HTML from logical tree only 
(regarding his (ugly) style), destroys my whitspace layout and 
much more  - forgetting anything about the original layout.

Such a "good HTML editor" must somehow track the original 
positions of the tags in the file. And during each logical change 
in the tree it must tracks the file position changes/offsets. That 
thing seems to miss in lxml and BeautifulSoup which I tried so far.

This is a frequent need I have. Nobody else's?

Seems I need to write my own or patch BS to do that extra tracking?


Robert


From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Mon Feb  1 08:48:08 2010
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 08:48:08 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
In-Reply-To: <953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>
References: <B449B6E5-9A45-4D7F-A694-9E2FA0B54A4E@bryant.edu>	<f604188c1001311811t5e6a176ew86e341c1b0ab5fdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <4B66DB98.9030800@canterburyschool.org>

Brian Blais wrote:
>> On Jan 31, 2010, at 23:05 , John Posner wrote:
>>
>>> Try commenting out this statement:
>>>
>>>    self.turtle.tracer(False)
>>>
>>> That helps on Python 2.6.4.
> 
> 
> interesting.  It seems as if the tracer property is a global one:

Actually, the tracer method that does the work is part of the 
TurtleScreen class, and individual Turtle instances just access the 
tracer method of the TurtleScreen they inhabit... if that makes sense. 
So since your turtles are on the same screen, yes, in effect, tracer is 
sort of global.

Cheers,
Vern

> 
> In [1]:t1=Turtle()
> 
> In [2]:t1.tracer()
> Out[2]:1
> 
> In [3]:t1.tracer(False)
> 
> In [4]:t1.tracer()
> Out[4]:0
> 
> In [5]:t2=Turtle()
> 
> In [6]:t2.tracer()
> Out[6]:0
> 
> In [7]:t2.tracer(True)
> 
> In [8]:t1.tracer()
> Out[8]:1
> 
> looks like I need to set the tracer manually. 
> 
> however, even if the tracer is off, shouldn't it still draw the line? 
>  when I put in the T.tracer(True) it works, but I shouldn't need to I think.
> 
> 
> On Jan 31, 2010, at 21:11 , kirby urner wrote:
> 
>> I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir.
> 
> Turtle is given in turtle.py.  I should have subclassed it, but I was 
> being lazy.  :)
> 
> thanks for the fast replies!
> 
> 
> bb
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Brian Blais <bblais at bryant.edu 
>> <mailto:bblais at bryant.edu>> wrote:
>>> I'm on Python 2.5, but using the updated turtle.py Version 1.0.1 - 24. 9.
>>> 2009.  The following script draws 5 circles, which it is supposed to, but
>>> then doesn't draw the second turtle which is supposed to simply move
>>> forward.  Any ideas?
>>> from turtle import *
>>> from numpy.random import randint
>>> resetscreen()
>>> class Circle(object):
>>>     def __init__(self,x,y,r,color):
>>>         self.x=x
>>>         self.y=y
>>>         self.r=r
>>>         self.color=color
>>>
>>>         self.turtle=Turtle(visible=False)
>>>         self.turtle.tracer(False)
>>>         self.draw()
>>>
>>>     def draw(self):
>>>         self.turtle.penup()
>>>         self.turtle.setposition(self.x,self.y)
>>>         self.turtle.setheading(0)
>>>         self.turtle.backward(self.r)
>>>         self.turtle.pendown()
>>>         self.turtle.fill(True)
>>>         self.turtle.pencolor("black")
>>>         self.turtle.fillcolor(self.color)
>>>         self.turtle.circle(self.r)
>>>         self.turtle.fill(False)
>>>         self.turtle.penup()
>>>
>>> for i in range(5):
>>>     c=Circle(randint(-350,350),randint(-250,250),10,"red")
>>>
>>>
>>> T=Turtle()
>>> T.forward(100)
>>> T.forward(100)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> bb
>>> --
>>> Brian Blais
>>> bblais at bryant.edu <mailto:bblais at bryant.edu>
>>> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>>> http://bblais.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Edu-sig mailing list
>>> Edu-sig at python.org <mailto:Edu-sig at python.org>
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>>>
>>>
> 
> -- 
> Brian Blais
> bblais at bryant.edu <mailto:bblais at bryant.edu>
> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
> http://bblais.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Mon Feb  1 08:54:59 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:54:59 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <hk6mfr$1cd$1@news.albasani.net>

Robert wrote:
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
>>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
>>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>>
>> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
>> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
>>
> 
> of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)
> 
> I mean: I want to walk with a Python script through the parsed tree HTML 
> and modify here and there things  (auto alt tags from DB/similar, link 
> corrections, text sections/translated sentences... due to HTML code and 
> content checks.)
> 
> Then I want to output the changed tree - but as close to the original 
> format as far as possible. No changes to my white space identation, 
> etc..  Only lokal changes, where really tags where changed.
> 
> Thats similiar like that what a good HTML editor does: After you made 
> little changes, it doesn't reformat/re-spit-out your whole code layout 
> from tree/attribute logic only. you have lokal changes only.
> But a simple HTML editor like that in Mozilla-Seamonkey outputs a whole 
> new HTML, produces the HTML from logical tree only (regarding his (ugly) 
> style), destroys my whitspace layout and much more  - forgetting 
> anything about the original layout.
> 
> Such a "good HTML editor" must somehow track the original positions of 
> the tags in the file. And during each logical change in the tree it must 
> tracks the file position changes/offsets. That thing seems to miss in 
> lxml and BeautifulSoup which I tried so far.
> 
> This is a frequent need I have. Nobody else's?
> 
> Seems I need to write my own or patch BS to do that extra tracking?
> 

basic feature(s) of such parser perhaps:

* can it tell for each tag object in the parsed tree, at what 
original file position start:end it resided? even a basic need: 
tell me the line number e.g. (for warning/analysis reports e.g.)

(* do the tree objects auto track/know if they were changed. (for 
convenience; a tree copy may serve this otherwise .. )

the creation of a output with local changes whould be rather 
simple from that ...


Robert


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  1 09:05:39 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:05:39 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Robert, 01.02.2010 14:36:
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
>>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
>>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>>
>> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
>> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
> 
> of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)

I meant "parsed" in the sense of "has parsed and is now working on".


> I mean: I want to walk with a Python script through the parsed tree HTML
> and modify here and there things  (auto alt tags from DB/similar, link
> corrections, text sections/translated sentences... due to HTML code and
> content checks.)

Sure, perfectly valid use case.


> Then I want to output the changed tree - but as close to the original
> format as far as possible. No changes to my white space identation,
> etc..  Only lokal changes, where really tags where changed.

That's up to you. If you only apply local changes that do not change any
surrounding whitespace, you'll be fine.


> Thats similiar like that what a good HTML editor does: After you made
> little changes, it doesn't reformat/re-spit-out your whole code layout
> from tree/attribute logic only. you have lokal changes only.

HTML editors don't work that way. They always "re-spit-out" the whole code
when you click on "save". They certainly don't track the original file
position of tags. What they preserve is the content, including whitespace
(or not, if they reformat the code, but that's usually an *option*).


> Such a "good HTML editor" must somehow track the original positions of
> the tags in the file. And during each logical change in the tree it must
> tracks the file position changes/offsets.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. The file position of a tag is determined by
whitespace, i.e. line endings and indentation. lxml does not alter that,
unless you tell it do do so.

Since you keep claiming that it *does* alter it, please come up with a
reproducible example that shows a) what you do in your code, b) what your
input is and c) what unexpected output it creates. Do not forget to include
the version number of lxml and libxml2 that you are using, as well as a
comment on /how/ the output differs from what you expected.

My stab in the dark is that you forgot to copy the tail text of elements
that you replace by new content, and that you didn't properly indent new
content that you added. But that's just that, a stab in the dark. You
didn't provide enough information for even an educated guess.

Stefan


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb  1 10:09:29 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:09:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: libpcap and python
References: <mailman.1726.1265028424.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hk6qr9$br9$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2010-02-01, Mag Gam <magawake at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I used tcpdump to capture data on my network. I would like to analyze
> the data using python -- currently using ethereal and wireshark.
>
> I would like to get certain type of packets (I can get the hex code
> for them), what is the best way to do this? Lets say I want to capture
> all events of `ping localhost`

http://www.google.com/search?q=python+pcap

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! My face is new, my
                                  at               license is expired, and I'm
                               visi.com            under a doctor's care!!!!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 10:27:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 15:27:31 GMT
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:14:42 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> I also think the PEP is a great idea and proposes a solution to a real
> problem. But I also hear the 'directory clutter' argument and I'm really
> concerned too, having all these extra directories around (and quite a
> large number of them indeed!). 

Keep in mind that if you don't explicitly ask for the proposed feature, 
you won't see any change at all. You need to run Python with the -R 
switch, or set an environment variable. The average developer won't see 
any clutter at all unless she is explicitly supporting multiple versions.



> How about this scheme:
> 
> 1. install python source files to a shared (among python installations)
> location /this/is/shared
> 2. when python X.Y imports a source file from /this/is/shared it will
> create pyc files in its private area /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/

$ touch /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/STEVEN
touch: cannot touch `/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/STEVEN': Permission 
denied

There's your first problem: most users don't have write-access to the 
private area. When you install a package, you normally do so as root, and 
it all works. When you import a module and it gets compiled as a .pyc 
file, you're generally running as a regular user.


> Time comparison would be between /this/is/shared/x.py and 
> /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/x.pyc, for instance.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "time comparison".


[...]
> In /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages there would be only pyc files with
> magic number matching python X.Y.

Personally, I think it is a terribly idea to keep the source file and 
byte code file in such radically different places. They should be kept 
together. What you call "clutter" I call having the files that belong 
together kept together.



> So, basically nothing would change only the location of py and pyc files
> would be different from current behavior, but the same algorithm would
> be run to determine which one to load, when to create a pyc file, when
> to ignore the old one, etc.

What happens when there is a .pyc file in the same location as the .py 
file? Because it *will* happen. Does it get ignored, or does it take 
precedence over the site specific file?

Given:

    ./module.pyc
    /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/module.pyc

and you execute "import module", which gets used? Note that in this 
situation, there may or may not be a module.py file.


> What would be wrong with this setup?

Consider:

    ./module.py
    ./package/module.py

Under your suggestion, both of these will compile to

    /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/module.pyc



-- 
Steven


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 10:30:50 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:30:50 -0600
Subject: Unable to install numpy
In-Reply-To: <a273bfa1-9ac8-4413-8f6f-313373d2ddce@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <3a772f49-aee6-4450-b60e-8f05daec136a@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1099.1263845336.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a273bfa1-9ac8-4413-8f6f-313373d2ddce@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk6s39$crf$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-01-31 08:03 AM, vsoler wrote:
> On Jan 18, 9:08 pm, Robert Kern<robert.k... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 2010-01-18 14:02 PM, vsoler wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>
>>> I just download Numpy, and tried to install it using "numpy-1.4.0-
>>> win32-superpack-python2.6.exe"
>>
>>> I get an error:  "Python version 2.6 required, which was not found in
>>> the Registry"
>>
>>> However, I am using Python 2.6 every day. I'm running Windows 7.
>>
>>> What can I do?
>>
>> Please ask numpy installation questions on the numpy mailing list.
>>
>>     http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists
>
> Thank you Robert.
>
> I'm going to direct my questions towards scipy.org. However, since I
> do not find my questions already answered, could you tell me where to
> post it?
>
> I beg your pardon for still asking this question outside of scipy.org,
> but I've been unable to move on.

Subscribe to the numpy-discussion mailing list following the directions given on 
the above-linked page. Then send email to numpy-discussion at scipy.org with your 
question.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  1 10:46:52 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:46:52 +0000
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002010126n7602495dlbf9cfc90755c8825@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c1002010126n7602495dlbf9cfc90755c8825@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B66F76C.5040507@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wutong at gmail.com> wrote:
>> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
>> if targetStr in tmp:
>>    print "find it"
>> else:
>>    print "not find"
>> file.close()
>>
>> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
>> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
> 
> If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
> MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
> applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.
> 
If you're processing in chunks then you also need to consider the
possibility that what you're looking for crosses a chunk boundary, of
course. It's an easy case to miss! :-)


From sdeibel at wingware.com  Mon Feb  1 11:16:28 2010
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (Stephan Deibel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:16:28 -0500
Subject: ANN: Wing IDE 3.2.4 released
Message-ID: <4B66FE5C.4010801@wingware.com>

Hi,

Wingware has released version 3.2.4 of Wing IDE, our integrated development
environment for the Python programming language.  Wing IDE can be used on
Windows, Linux, and OS X to develop Python code for web, GUI, and embedded
scripting applications.  Wing IDE provides auto-completion, call tips, a
powerful debugger, unit testing, version control, search, and many other
features.

This release includes the following minor features and improvements:

* Corrected support for non-ascii I/O when debugging under Python 3.x
* Support debugging of wide unicode builds of Python 3.x
* Improve GUI responsiveness in very large projects (optimized external
  file change checking)
* Auto-enter last failed or canceled version control commit message
* Added context menu for copy/paste to commit message area in version
  control tools
* Version control annotate commands like 'svn blame' show results in
  scratch buffer
* Many other minor features and bug fixes; See the change log
  at http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/3.2.4/CHANGELOG.txt for details

*Wing 3.2 Highlights*

Version 3.2 of Wing IDE includes the following new features not present
in Wing IDE 3.1:

* Support for Python 3.0 and 3.1
* Rewritten version control integration with support for Subversion, CVS,
  Bazaar, git, Mercurial, and Perforce (*)
* Added 64-bit Debian, RPM, and tar file installers for Linux
* File management in Project view (**)
* Auto-completion in the editor obtains completion data from live runtime
  when the debugger is active (**)
* Perspectives: Create and save named GUI layouts and optionally 
automatically
  transition when debugging is started (*)
* Improved support for Cython and Pyrex (*.pyx files)
* Added key binding documentation to the manual
* Added Restart Debugging item in Debug menu and tool bar (**)
* Improved OS Commands and Bookmarks tools (*)

(*)'d items are available in Wing IDE Professional only.
(**)'d items are available in Wing IDE Personal and Professional only.

The release also contains many other minor features and bug fixes; see the
change log for details:  http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/3.2.4/CHANGELOG.txt

*Downloads*

Wing IDE Professional and Wing IDE Personal are commercial software and
require a license to run. A free trial license can be obtained directly from
the product when launched.  Wing IDE 101 can be used free of charge.

Wing IDE Pro 3.2.4        http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide/3.2

Wing IDE Personal 3.2.4   http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-personal/3.2

Wing IDE 101 3.2.4        http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101/3.2

*About Wing IDE*

Wing IDE is an integrated development environment for the Python programming
language.  It provides powerful debugging, editing, code intelligence,
testing, version control, and search capabilities that reduce 
development and
debugging time, cut down on coding errors, and make it easier to understand
and navigate Python code.

Wing IDE is available in three product levels:  Wing IDE Professional is
the full-featured Python IDE, Wing IDE Personal offers a reduced feature
set at a low price, and Wing IDE 101 is a free simplified version designed
for teaching entry level programming courses with Python.

System requirements are Windows 2000 or later, OS X 10.3.9 or later for 
PPC or
Intel (requires X11 Server), or a recent Linux system (either 32 or 64 bit).
Wing IDE 3.2 supports Python versions 2.0.x through 3.1.x.

*Purchasing and Upgrading*

Wing 3.2 is a free upgrade for all Wing IDE 3.0 and 3.1 users. Any 2.x 
license
sold after May 2nd 2006 is free to upgrade; others cost 1/2 the normal price
to upgrade.

Upgrade a 2.x license:     https://wingware.com/store/upgrade

Purchase a 3.x license:    https://wingware.com/store/purchase

-- 

The Wingware Team
Wingware | Python IDE
Advancing Software Development

www.wingware.com



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:31:34 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:31:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 4:03?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2:59?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I've made a similar post on the Cython mailing list, however I think
> > this is more python-specific. I'm having trouble setting up distutils
> > to use MinGW instead of Visual Studio when building a module. Even tho
> > I've just uninstalled VS, and cleared out any leftover VS environment
> > variables, distutils keeps wanting to use it.
>
> > The steps I took:
>
> > Fresh installation of Python 3.1.1
> > Successfully installed MinGW, added to the path variable (gcc in
> > command prompt works)
> > Successfully installed Cython, imports from Cython in Python work.
> > Added a distutils.cfg file in \Python31\Lib\distutils\ directory with:
>
> > [build]
> > compiler=mingw32
>
> > (also tried adding [build_ext] compiler=mingw32)
>
> > There's a demo setup.py module that came with Cython, I tried the
> > following commands:
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > python setup.py build_ext --inplace
>
> > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
>
> > > python setup.py build
>
> > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > I'm having the exact same issue with trying to build the Polygon
> > library via MinGW. In fact, the reason I had installed Visual Studio
> > in the first place was to be able to build the Polygon library, since
> > I was having these errors.
>
> > What do I need to do to make distutils/python use MinGW?
>
> Update:
>
> I installed and tried building with Python 2.6, it calls MinGW when I
> have the distutils.cfg file configured properly (same configuration as
> the Python 3.1.1 one)
>
> But why doesn't it work on a fresh Python 3.1.1 installation as well?
> Is this a bug?

Also tried calling (Python 3.1.1):

----------------------------------------------------
python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32

error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
----------------------------------------------------

I've tried using pexports and the dlltool to build new python31.def
and libpython31.a files, and put them in the libs folder. That didn't
work either.

I've also tried adding some print statements in the \distutils\dist.py
file, in the parse_config_files() function, just to see if Python
properly parses the config file. And it does, both Python 2.6 and 3.1
parse the distutils.cfg file properly. Yet something is making python
3 look for the VS/VC compiler instead of MinGW. I'll keep updating on
any progres..


From casevh at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:44:46 2010
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:44:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <12c34cd1-7740-4257-9bb6-bdfb55b44b27@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 8:31?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 4:03?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 2:59?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi,
>
> > > I've made a similar post on the Cython mailing list, however I think
> > > this is more python-specific. I'm having trouble setting up distutils
> > > to use MinGW instead of Visual Studio when building a module. Even tho
> > > I've just uninstalled VS, and cleared out any leftover VS environment
> > > variables, distutils keeps wanting to use it.
>
> > > The steps I took:
>
> > > Fresh installation of Python 3.1.1
> > > Successfully installed MinGW, added to the path variable (gcc in
> > > command prompt works)
> > > Successfully installed Cython, imports from Cython in Python work.
> > > Added a distutils.cfg file in \Python31\Lib\distutils\ directory with:
>
> > > [build]
> > > compiler=mingw32
>
> > > (also tried adding [build_ext] compiler=mingw32)
>
> > > There's a demo setup.py module that came with Cython, I tried the
> > > following commands:
>
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > python setup.py build_ext --inplace
>
> > > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
>
> > > > python setup.py build
>
> > > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > I'm having the exact same issue with trying to build the Polygon
> > > library via MinGW. In fact, the reason I had installed Visual Studio
> > > in the first place was to be able to build the Polygon library, since
> > > I was having these errors.
>
> > > What do I need to do to make distutils/python use MinGW?
>
> > Update:
>
> > I installed and tried building with Python 2.6, it calls MinGW when I
> > have the distutils.cfg file configured properly (same configuration as
> > the Python 3.1.1 one)
>
> > But why doesn't it work on a fresh Python 3.1.1 installation as well?
> > Is this a bug?
>
> Also tried calling (Python 3.1.1):
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32
>
> error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> I've tried using pexports and the dlltool to build new python31.def
> and libpython31.a files, and put them in the libs folder. That didn't
> work either.
>
> I've also tried adding some print statements in the \distutils\dist.py
> file, in the parse_config_files() function, just to see if Python
> properly parses the config file. And it does, both Python 2.6 and 3.1
> parse the distutils.cfg file properly. Yet something is making python
> 3 look for the VS/VC compiler instead of MinGW. I'll keep updating on
> any progres..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think this is http://bugs.python.org/issue6377.

I applied the patch to my local copy of Python 3.1 and it seems to
work.

casevh


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:50:36 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:50:36 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi -- I have many sections of code like this:

    for value in value_iterator:
         value_function(value)

I noticed that this does two things I don't like:

1. looks up "value_function" and "value" for each iteration, but
"value_function" doesn't change.
2. side effect of (maybe) leaking the iterator variable "value" into
the code following the loop (if the iterator is not empty).

I can take care of 2 by explicitly deleting the variable at the end:

   del value

but I'd probably forget to do that sometimes.  I then realized that,
in the 2.x series, I can accomplish the same thing with:

    map(value_function, value_iterator)

and avoid both problems BUT map() returns a list which is never used.
Not a big deal for small iterables, I guess, but it seems messy.  Upon
conversion to 3.x I have to explicitly list-ify it:

    list(map(value_function, value_iterator))

which works but again the list returned is never used (extra work) and
has to be gc'd I suppose (extra memory).

It's easy to make a little function to take care of this (2.x):

    from itertools import imap
    def apply(function, iterable):
        for item in imap(function, iterable):
            pass

then later:

   apply(value_function, value_iterator)

or something similar thing in 3.x, but that just adds an additional
function def that I have to include whenever I want to do something
like this.

So.....I'm wondering if there is any interest in an apply() built-in
function that would work like map() does in 2.x (calls the function
with each value returned by the iterator) but return nothing.  Maybe
"apply" isn't the best name; it's just the first one that occurred to
me.

Or is this just silly and should I forget about it?

-- 
Gerald Britton


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Feb  1 11:53:01 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:53:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1714.1265016422.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c3c67877-fe84-4b5a-bdc4-44d9dd93ba7a@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk70td$u47$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:33:09 -0800, Stephen.Wu a ?crit?:
> 
> actually, I just use file.read(length) way, i just want to know what
> exactly para of length I should set, I'm afraid length doesn't equal to
> the amount of physical memory after trials...

There's no exact length you "should" set, just set something big enough 
that looping doesn't add any noticeable overhead, but small enough that 
it doesn't take too much memory. Something between 64kB and 1MB sounds 
reasonable.




From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:53:41 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:53:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <054ae97c-f8e9-4090-a7e0-cf6a55c2cf5d@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I've found the problem:

For the windows Python 3.1.1 x86 installation, the file \Python31\Lib
\Distutils\command\build_ext.py, has this:

Line 313:

        self.compiler = new_compiler(compiler=None,

But Python 2.6 has this line:

Line 306:

        self.compiler = new_compiler(compiler=self.compiler,



I've changed the Python 3.1.1 \Python31\Lib\Distutils\command
\build_ext.py, Line 313 to this:

        self.compiler = new_compiler(compiler=self.compiler,

And now MinGW gets properly called in Python 3.1.1. I think this must
have been a typo.


Is there anyone else that can confirm this?

The installation that distributes the file with that line is from this
Python ftp link: http://python.org/ftp/python/3.1.1/python-3.1.1.msi


From affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com  Mon Feb  1 12:00:19 2010
From: affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com (Tracubik)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 17:00:19 GMT
Subject: create a string of variable lenght
References: <4b65729b$0$1126$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
	<olag37-g7r.ln1@spamfence.net>
	<4b660056$0$1131$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.1701.1264985668.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6708a3$0$1132$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>

Il Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:54:17 -0500, Benjamin Kaplan ha scritto:

> First of all, if you haven't read this before, please do. It will make
> this much clearer.
> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html

i'm reading it right now, thanks :-)

[cut]

> Solution to your problem: in addition to keeping the #-*- coding ...
> line, go with G?nther's advice and use Unicode strings.

that is: always use the "u" operator (i.e. my_name = u"Nico"), right?

Ciao,
Nico



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 12:03:10 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:03:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<12c34cd1-7740-4257-9bb6-bdfb55b44b27@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c698aaf2-ae1c-4c94-a957-df78ebac0781@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 5:44?pm, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:31?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 4:03?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 1, 2:59?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Hi,
>
> > > > I've made a similar post on the Cython mailing list, however I think
> > > > this is more python-specific. I'm having trouble setting up distutils
> > > > to use MinGW instead of Visual Studio when building a module. Even tho
> > > > I've just uninstalled VS, and cleared out any leftover VS environment
> > > > variables, distutils keeps wanting to use it.
>
> > > > The steps I took:
>
> > > > Fresh installation of Python 3.1.1
> > > > Successfully installed MinGW, added to the path variable (gcc in
> > > > command prompt works)
> > > > Successfully installed Cython, imports from Cython in Python work.
> > > > Added a distutils.cfg file in \Python31\Lib\distutils\ directory with:
>
> > > > [build]
> > > > compiler=mingw32
>
> > > > (also tried adding [build_ext] compiler=mingw32)
>
> > > > There's a demo setup.py module that came with Cython, I tried the
> > > > following commands:
>
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > > python setup.py build_ext --inplace
>
> > > > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
>
> > > > > python setup.py build
>
> > > > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > I'm having the exact same issue with trying to build the Polygon
> > > > library via MinGW. In fact, the reason I had installed Visual Studio
> > > > in the first place was to be able to build the Polygon library, since
> > > > I was having these errors.
>
> > > > What do I need to do to make distutils/python use MinGW?
>
> > > Update:
>
> > > I installed and tried building with Python 2.6, it calls MinGW when I
> > > have the distutils.cfg file configured properly (same configuration as
> > > the Python 3.1.1 one)
>
> > > But why doesn't it work on a fresh Python 3.1.1 installation as well?
> > > Is this a bug?
>
> > Also tried calling (Python 3.1.1):
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32
>
> > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > I've tried using pexports and the dlltool to build new python31.def
> > and libpython31.a files, and put them in the libs folder. That didn't
> > work either.
>
> > I've also tried adding some print statements in the \distutils\dist.py
> > file, in the parse_config_files() function, just to see if Python
> > properly parses the config file. And it does, both Python 2.6 and 3.1
> > parse the distutils.cfg file properly. Yet something is making python
> > 3 look for the VS/VC compiler instead of MinGW. I'll keep updating on
> > any progres..- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I think this ishttp://bugs.python.org/issue6377.
>
> I applied the patch to my local copy of Python 3.1 and it seems to
> work.
>
> casevh

Thanks for the link, it seems like it's got more to do than what I
just posted. But in any case, it works for me now.

I think I'll have to open myself a blog and post some guides for
problems like these, so people can avoid spending whole nights around
a problem like this. :)


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 12:03:20 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:03:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<054ae97c-f8e9-4090-a7e0-cf6a55c2cf5d@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0a26893d-45b2-42c6-ae5f-3a59410b790f@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Well, in any case this seems to be working ok for me now.


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Mon Feb  1 12:16:20 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:16:20 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <hk729b$naa$1@news.albasani.net>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Robert, 01.02.2010 14:36:
>> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>>> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>>>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
>>>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>>>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
>>>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>>> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
>>> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
>> of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)
> 
> I meant "parsed" in the sense of "has parsed and is now working on".
> 
> 
>> I mean: I want to walk with a Python script through the parsed tree HTML
>> and modify here and there things  (auto alt tags from DB/similar, link
>> corrections, text sections/translated sentences... due to HTML code and
>> content checks.)
> 
> Sure, perfectly valid use case.
> 
> 
>> Then I want to output the changed tree - but as close to the original
>> format as far as possible. No changes to my white space identation,
>> etc..  Only lokal changes, where really tags where changed.
> 
> That's up to you. If you only apply local changes that do not change any
> surrounding whitespace, you'll be fine.
> 
> 
>> Thats similiar like that what a good HTML editor does: After you made
>> little changes, it doesn't reformat/re-spit-out your whole code layout
>> from tree/attribute logic only. you have lokal changes only.
> 
> HTML editors don't work that way. They always "re-spit-out" the whole code
> when you click on "save". They certainly don't track the original file
> position of tags. What they preserve is the content, including whitespace
> (or not, if they reformat the code, but that's usually an *option*).
> 
> 
>> Such a "good HTML editor" must somehow track the original positions of
>> the tags in the file. And during each logical change in the tree it must
>> tracks the file position changes/offsets.
> 
> Sorry, but that's nonsense. The file position of a tag is determined by
> whitespace, i.e. line endings and indentation. lxml does not alter that,
> unless you tell it do do so.
> 
> Since you keep claiming that it *does* alter it, please come up with a
> reproducible example that shows a) what you do in your code, b) what your
> input is and c) what unexpected output it creates. Do not forget to include
> the version number of lxml and libxml2 that you are using, as well as a
> comment on /how/ the output differs from what you expected.
> 
> My stab in the dark is that you forgot to copy the tail text of elements
> that you replace by new content, and that you didn't properly indent new
> content that you added. But that's just that, a stab in the dark. You
> didn't provide enough information for even an educated guess.
> 

I think you confused the logical level of what I meant with "file 
position":
Of course its not about (necessarily) writing back to the same 
open file (OS-level), but regarding the whole serializiation 
string (wherever it is finally written to - I typically write the 
auto-converted HTML files to a 2nd test folder first, and want use 
"diff -u ..." to see human-readable what changed happened - which 
again is only reasonable if the original layout is preserved as 
good as possible )

lxml and BeautifulSoup e.g. : load&parse a HTML file to a tree, 
immediately serialize the tree without changes => you see big 
differences of original and serialized files with quite any file.

The main issue: those libs seem to not track any info about the 
original string/file positions of the objects they parse. The just 
forget the past. Thus they cannot by principle do what I want it 
seems ...

Or does anybody see attributes of the tree objects - which I 
overlooked? Or a lib which can do or at least enable better this 
source-back-connected editing?


Robert


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  1 12:17:31 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:17:31 +0000
Subject: how to decode rtf characterset ?
In-Reply-To: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>
References: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B670CAB.7090303@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> hello,
> 
> I want to translate rtf files to unicode strings.
> I succeeded in remove all the tags,
> but now I'm stucked to the special accent characters,
> like :
> 
> "V??r"
> 
> the character "?" is represented by the string r"\'f3",
> or in bytes: 92, 39,102, 51
> 
> so I think I need a way to translate that into the string r"\xf3"
> but I can't find a way to accomplish that.
> 
> a
> Any suggestions are very welcome.
> 
Change r"\'f3" to r"\xf3" and then decode to Unicode:

 >>> s = r"\'f3"
 >>> s = s.replace(r"\'", r"\x").decode("unicode_escape")
 >>> print s
?


From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 12:29:25 2010
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:29:25 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
In-Reply-To: <953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>
References: <B449B6E5-9A45-4D7F-A694-9E2FA0B54A4E@bryant.edu>
	<f604188c1001311811t5e6a176ew86e341c1b0ab5fdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <f604188c1002010929n2c68264apb33b240fb497470c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Brian Blais <bblais at bryant.edu> wro

>
> I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir.
>
>
> Turtle is given in turtle.py.  I should have subclassed it, but I was being
> lazy.  :)
>
> thanks for the fast replies!
>
>
>

> bb
>
>
>


No obvious need to subclass.

You weren't being lazy, I was being sloppy.

I'm glad Vern caught my error right away.

Kirby
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From tim.arnold at sas.com  Mon Feb  1 12:42:07 2010
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:42:07 -0500
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk729b$naa$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <hk73pf$man$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>


"Robert" <no-spam at non-existing.invalid> wrote in message 
news:hk729b$naa$1 at news.albasani.net...
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Robert, 01.02.2010 14:36:
>>> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>>>> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>>>>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element 
>>>>> tree,
>>>>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>>>>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of 
>>>>> the
>>>>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>>>> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
>>>> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
>>> of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)
>>

I think I understand what you want, but I don't understand why yet. Do you 
want to view the differences in an IDE or something like that? If so, why 
not pretty-print both and compare that?
--Tim




From mal at egenix.com  Mon Feb  1 13:06:37 2010
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:06:37 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes
	(upon	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <hk729b$naa$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>	<4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk729b$naa$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <4B67182D.3060500@egenix.com>

Robert wrote:
> I think you confused the logical level of what I meant with "file
> position":
> Of course its not about (necessarily) writing back to the same open file
> (OS-level), but regarding the whole serializiation string (wherever it
> is finally written to - I typically write the auto-converted HTML files
> to a 2nd test folder first, and want use "diff -u ..." to see
> human-readable what changed happened - which again is only reasonable if
> the original layout is preserved as good as possible )
> 
> lxml and BeautifulSoup e.g. : load&parse a HTML file to a tree,
> immediately serialize the tree without changes => you see big
> differences of original and serialized files with quite any file.
> 
> The main issue: those libs seem to not track any info about the original
> string/file positions of the objects they parse. The just forget the
> past. Thus they cannot by principle do what I want it seems ...
> 
> Or does anybody see attributes of the tree objects - which I overlooked?
> Or a lib which can do or at least enable better this
> source-back-connected editing?

You'd have to write your own parse (or extend the example HTML
one we include), but mxTextTools allows you to work on original
code quite easily: it tags parts of the input string with objects.

You can then have those objects manipulate the underlying text as
necessary and write back the text using the original formatting
plus your local changes.

	http://www.egenix.com/products/python/mxBase/mxTextTools/

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Feb 01 2010)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/


From mal at egenix.com  Mon Feb  1 13:11:24 2010
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:11:24 +0100
Subject: how to decode rtf characterset ?
In-Reply-To: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>
References: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B67194C.3030307@egenix.com>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> hello,
> 
> I want to translate rtf files to unicode strings.
> I succeeded in remove all the tags,
> but now I'm stucked to the special accent characters,
> like :
> 
> "V??r"
> 
> the character "?" is represented by the string r"\'f3",
> or in bytes: 92, 39,102, 51

> so I think I need a way to translate that into the string r"\xf3"
> but I can't find a way to accomplish that.
> 
> a
> Any suggestions are very welcome.

You could try something along these lines:

>>> s = r"\'f3"
>>> s = s.replace("\\'", "\\x")
>>> u = s.decode('unicode-escape')
>>> u
u'\xf3'

However, this assumes Latin-1 codes being using by the RTF
text.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Feb 01 2010)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Feb  1 13:56:16 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:56:16 -0500
Subject: create a string of variable lenght
In-Reply-To: <4b6708a3$0$1132$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>
References: <4b65729b$0$1126$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
	<olag37-g7r.ln1@spamfence.net>
	<4b660056$0$1131$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.1701.1264985668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6708a3$0$1132$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002011056w239b15a4k383b04c2e813144e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Tracubik <affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com> wrote:
> Il Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:54:17 -0500, Benjamin Kaplan ha scritto:
>
>> First of all, if you haven't read this before, please do. It will make
>> this much clearer.
>> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html
>
> i'm reading it right now, thanks :-)
>
> [cut]
>
>> Solution to your problem: in addition to keeping the #-*- coding ...
>> line, go with G?nther's advice and use Unicode strings.
>
> that is: always use the "u" operator (i.e. my_name = u"Nico"), right?
>
> Ciao,
> Nico
>


Short answer: yes.

Slightly longer explanation for future reference: This is true for
Python 2 but not Python 3. One of the big changes in Python 3 is that
strings are Unicode by default because you're not the only one who
runs into this problem. So in Python 3, just writing 'Nico' will make
a Unicode string and you have to explicitly declare b'Nico' if you
want to look at it as a series of bytes.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 14:00:38 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:00:38 -0300
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 7 *
References: <4755336292109192622@unknownmsgid>
	<aa762f631002010226q25956058se80c49560e652400@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gprcnfx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:26:13 -0300, Rohit Roger$ <rohitraj007 at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> Help for datetime module
>
> Source code is :
> from datetime import datetime
> d = datetime(datetime.now().year, datetime.now().month,  
> datetime.now().day, 11, 59, 0 )
> print d

And your problem is...?
This is what I get:
py> print d
2010-02-01 11:59:00

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Feb  1 14:52:46 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:52:46 +0100
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7sopofFg53U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> So.....I'm wondering if there is any interest in an apply() built-in
> function that would work like map() does in 2.x (calls the function
> with each value returned by the iterator) but return nothing.  Maybe
> "apply" isn't the best name; it's just the first one that occurred to
> me.
>
> Or is this just silly and should I forget about it?

IMHO - yes. Looking up names is what python does all the time, trying to 
microoptimize that away is silly. It is only justfied if you have 
extremely timing-critical code.

And then, all you need to do is to say


def whatever():
   _function = function
   for value in values:
       _function(value)

which will reduce lookup-time, as _function is found in locals() rather 
than globals().

And any function that does something worthy will dwarf the second 
namespace-lookup I'd say.

Diez



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:05:55 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:05:55 +0000
Subject: Iterating over a function call
References: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>

Gerald Britton <gerald.britton at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi -- I have many sections of code like this:
>
>     for value in value_iterator:
>          value_function(value)
>
> I noticed that this does two things I don't like:
>
> 1. looks up "value_function" and "value" for each iteration, but
> "value_function" doesn't change.
> 2. side effect of (maybe) leaking the iterator variable "value" into
> the code following the loop (if the iterator is not empty).
>
> I can take care of 2 by explicitly deleting the variable at the end:
>
>    del value
>
> but I'd probably forget to do that sometimes.  I then realized that,
> in the 2.x series, I can accomplish the same thing with:
>
>     map(value_function, value_iterator)
>
> and avoid both problems BUT map() returns a list which is never used.
> Not a big deal for small iterables, I guess, but it seems messy.  Upon
> conversion to 3.x I have to explicitly list-ify it:
>
>     list(map(value_function, value_iterator))
>
> which works but again the list returned is never used (extra work) and
> has to be gc'd I suppose (extra memory).
>
> It's easy to make a little function to take care of this (2.x):
>
>     from itertools import imap
>     def apply(function, iterable):
>         for item in imap(function, iterable):
>             pass
>
> then later:
>
>    apply(value_function, value_iterator)
>
> or something similar thing in 3.x, but that just adds an additional
> function def that I have to include whenever I want to do something
> like this.
>

You have itertools.consume which is close to what you want:

    consume(imap(func, iterable)) # 2.x

    consume(map(func, iterable)) # 3.x

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From rolf.oltmans at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:06:09 2010
From: rolf.oltmans at gmail.com (Oltmans)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:06:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
Message-ID: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hello Python gurus,

I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below

import new
import unittest

class test(unittest.TestCase):
    def test_first(self):
        print 'first test'
    def test_second(self):
        print 'second test'
    def test_third(self):
        print 'third test'

class tee(unittest.TestCase):
    pass

and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class. So I'm trying to
do something like

if __name__=="__main__":
    for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
        if name.find('test_')!= -1:
            tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)

after doing above when I run this statement
print dirs(tee)
I don't see test_first(), test_second() and test_third() attached to
class 'tee'. Any ideas, on how can I attach methods of class 'test' to
class 'tee' dynamically? Any help is highly appreciated.

Many thanks and I look forward to any help.


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:19:52 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:19:52 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002011219h579fb374vdfe728080ea561b1@mail.gmail.com>

>> I also think the PEP is a great idea and proposes a solution to a real
>> problem. But I also hear the 'directory clutter' argument and I'm really
>> concerned too, having all these extra directories around (and quite a
>> large number of them indeed!).
>
> Keep in mind that if you don't explicitly ask for the proposed feature,
> you won't see any change at all. You need to run Python with the -R
> switch, or set an environment variable. The average developer won't see
> any clutter at all unless she is explicitly supporting multiple versions.
>
>
>
>> How about this scheme:
>>
>> 1. install python source files to a shared (among python installations)
>> location /this/is/shared
>> 2. when python X.Y imports a source file from /this/is/shared it will
>> create pyc files in its private area /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/
>
> $ touch /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/STEVEN
> touch: cannot touch `/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/STEVEN': Permission
> denied
>
> There's your first problem: most users don't have write-access to the
> private area.

True, I haven't thought about that (I should have though).

> When you install a package, you normally do so as root, and
> it all works. When you import a module and it gets compiled as a .pyc
> file, you're generally running as a regular user.
>
>
>> Time comparison would be between /this/is/shared/x.py and
>> /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/x.pyc, for instance.
>
> I don't quite understand what you mean by "time comparison".

I meant the comparison of timestamps on .py and .pyc files in order to
determine which is newer and if a recompilation should take place or
not.

> [...]
>> In /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages there would be only pyc files with
>> magic number matching python X.Y.
>
> Personally, I think it is a terribly idea to keep the source file and
> byte code file in such radically different places. They should be kept
> together. What you call "clutter" I call having the files that belong
> together kept together.

I see why you think so, it's reasonable, however there is compelling
argument, I think, for the opposite view: namely to keep things
separate. An average developer definitely wants easy access to .py
files. However I see no good reason for having access to .pyc files. I
for one have never inspected a .pyc file. Why would you want to have a
.pyc file at hand?

If we don't really want to have .pyc files in convenient locations
because we (almost) never want to access them really, then I'd say
it's a good idea to keep them totally separate and so make don't get
in the way.

>> So, basically nothing would change only the location of py and pyc files
>> would be different from current behavior, but the same algorithm would
>> be run to determine which one to load, when to create a pyc file, when
>> to ignore the old one, etc.
>
> What happens when there is a .pyc file in the same location as the .py
> file? Because it *will* happen. Does it get ignored, or does it take
> precedence over the site specific file?
>
> Given:
>
>     ./module.pyc
>     /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/module.pyc
>
> and you execute "import module", which gets used? Note that in this
> situation, there may or may not be a module.py file.
>
>
>> What would be wrong with this setup?
>
> Consider:
>
>     ./module.py
>     ./package/module.py
>
> Under your suggestion, both of these will compile to
>
>     /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/module.pyc

I see the problems with my suggestion. However it would be great if in
some other way the .pyc files could be kept out of the way. Granted, I
don't have a good proposal for this.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 15:25:49 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:25:49 -0800
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
In-Reply-To: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002011225l6155069alb2d90f6d771a70df@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Oltmans <rolf.oltmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Python gurus,
>
> I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
> Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below
>
> import new
> import unittest
>
> class test(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ?def test_first(self):
> ? ? ? ?print 'first test'
> ? ?def test_second(self):
> ? ? ? ?print 'second test'
> ? ?def test_third(self):
> ? ? ? ?print 'third test'
>
> class tee(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ?pass
>
> and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
> test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class. So I'm trying to
> do something like
>
> if __name__=="__main__":
> ? ?for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
> ? ? ? ?if name.find('test_')!= -1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)

This ends up repeatedly assigning to the attribute "name" of tee; if
you check dir(tee), you'll see the string "name" as an entry. It does
*not* assign to the attribute named by the string in the variable
`name`.
You want setattr(): http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#setattr
Assuming the rest of your code chunk is correct:

setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:44:18 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:44:18 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002011244n21b6f6a8g27051d2cbaa14ecf@mail.gmail.com>

[snip[

> You have itertools.consume which is close to what you want:
>
> ? ?consume(imap(func, iterable)) # 2.x
>
> ? ?consume(map(func, iterable)) # 3.x
>
> HTH

It does! Though in my case this is simpler:

    deque(imap(func, iterable), 0)

since the recipe for consume just calls deque anyway when you want to
eat up the rest of the iterable.  It also solves the iterator-variable
leakage problem and is only a wee bit slower than a conventional
for-loop.

>
> --
> Arnaud
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:45:03 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:45:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <95aceacf-4282-4ddb-b7a2-d9a71d3f8d00@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 12:06?pm, Oltmans <rolf.oltm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Python gurus,
>
> I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
> Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below
>
> import new
> import unittest
>
> class test(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ? def test_first(self):
> ? ? ? ? print 'first test'
> ? ? def test_second(self):
> ? ? ? ? print 'second test'
> ? ? def test_third(self):
> ? ? ? ? print 'third test'
>
> class tee(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ? pass
>
> and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
> test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class.


Simplest way:

class tee(test):
    pass


To do it dynamically the following might work:

class tee(unittest.TestCase):
    pass

tee.__bases__ = (test,)
tee.__bases__ = (test2,) # dynamically reassign base


> So I'm trying to
> do something like
>
> if __name__=="__main__":
> ? ? for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
> ? ? ? ? if name.find('test_')!= -1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)
>
> after doing above when I run this statement
> print dirs(tee)
> I don't see test_first(), test_second() and test_third() attached to
> class 'tee'. Any ideas, on how can I attach methods of class 'test' to
> class 'tee' dynamically? Any help is highly appreciated.

If you want to do it this way--and I recommend regular inheritance if
you can--this is how:

for x in dir(test):  # or inspect.getmembers
    if x.startswith('test_'):
        method = getattr(test,x)
        function = method.im_func
        setattr(tee,x,function)

The business with method.im_func is because in Python 2.x the getattr
on a class will actually returns an unbound method, so you have to get
at the actual function object with im_func.  In Python 3 this is not
necessary.

Carl Banks


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:50:36 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:50:36 -0500
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002011225l6155069alb2d90f6d771a70df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c1002011225l6155069alb2d90f6d771a70df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002011250q705f881aid1c7f3246ebb217a@mail.gmail.com>

Or you could just do a mixin:

tee.__class__.__bases__ = (test,) +  tee.__class__.__bases__


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Oltmans <rolf.oltmans at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Python gurus,
>>
>> I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
>> Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below
>>
>> import new
>> import unittest
>>
>> class test(unittest.TestCase):
>> ? ?def test_first(self):
>> ? ? ? ?print 'first test'
>> ? ?def test_second(self):
>> ? ? ? ?print 'second test'
>> ? ?def test_third(self):
>> ? ? ? ?print 'third test'
>>
>> class tee(unittest.TestCase):
>> ? ?pass
>>
>> and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
>> test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class. So I'm trying to
>> do something like
>>
>> if __name__=="__main__":
>> ? ?for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
>> ? ? ? ?if name.find('test_')!= -1:
>> ? ? ? ? ? ?tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)
>
> This ends up repeatedly assigning to the attribute "name" of tee; if
> you check dir(tee), you'll see the string "name" as an entry. It does
> *not* assign to the attribute named by the string in the variable
> `name`.
> You want setattr(): http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#setattr
> Assuming the rest of your code chunk is correct:
>
> setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From nad at acm.org  Mon Feb  1 15:55:17 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:55:17 -0800
Subject: get error install MySQLdb on Mac OS X
References: <30c0946e-fa6a-4a54-930c-1962d167fffe@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<ee523956-2e53-4efb-8c9e-1cd7ad82993b@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<2be17362-8a54-4a04-9671-0a0ff7266e33@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-CE9AB4.12551701022010@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<2be17362-8a54-4a04-9671-0a0ff7266e33 at k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
 "PS.OHM" <ps.ohms at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 29, 5:02?am, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 28, 12:53?pm, "PS.OHM" <ps.o... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I havegetsomeerrorwhen i install MySQLdb on Mac OS X
> >
> > > after i key command $python setup.py build

The build of MySQLdb is not finding the MySQL client database libraries.  
You need to install them first and, for the python you are using, you 
need a version that includes 32-bit.  The easiest options are to 
download them from mysql.com or, if you are comfortable with MacPorts, I 
would recommend installing them from there.

    sudo port install mysql5

In fact, with MacPorts you can install a complete Python 2.6.4, MySQLdb, 
and MySQL libraries with just one command.  With the MacPorts base 
installed, this should do it:

    sudo port install py26-mysql

You might need to tweak the variants of some of the packages if you want 
32-bit only, etc, depending on what version of OS X you're running on.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From rolf.oltmans at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:55:38 2010
From: rolf.oltmans at gmail.com (Oltmans)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:55:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Thank you for your help, Chris. Looks like I can now attach methods to
class 'tee'. However, after attaching methods to 'tee' when I try to
run them using suite.run() I don't see any of the methods running, I'm
sorry but I've no clue what's failing this. Any insights will be
highly appreciated. Here is the sample code
filename: check.py
---
import inspect
import unittest


class result(unittest.TestResult):

    def addSuccess(self,test):
        print str(test) + ' succeeded'
    def addError(self,test,err):
        print 'An error occured while running the test ' + str(test) +
' and error is = ' + str(err)
    def addFailure(self,test,err):
        print str(test) + " failed with an error =" + str(err)



class test(unittest.TestCase):
    def test_first(self):
        print 'first test'
    def test_second(self):
        print 'second test'
    def test_third(self):
        print 'third test'

import new
class tee(unittest.TestCase):
    pass

if __name__=="__main__":
    r = result()
    for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
        if name.find('test_')!= -1:

            setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))

    suite = unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromName('check.tee')
    suite.run(r)
---

Then line suite.run(r) should have run the methods that we just
attached, but it's not. I must be missing something here. Please
enlighten me.

Thanks.
On Feb 2, 1:25?am, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Oltmans <rolf.oltm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello Python gurus,
>
> > I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
> > Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below
>
> > import new
> > import unittest
>
> > class test(unittest.TestCase):
> > ? ?def test_first(self):
> > ? ? ? ?print 'first test'
> > ? ?def test_second(self):
> > ? ? ? ?print 'second test'
> > ? ?def test_third(self):
> > ? ? ? ?print 'third test'
>
> > class tee(unittest.TestCase):
> > ? ?pass
>
> > and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
> > test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class. So I'm trying to
> > do something like
>
> > if __name__=="__main__":
> > ? ?for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
> > ? ? ? ?if name.find('test_')!= -1:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)
>
> This ends up repeatedly assigning to the attribute "name" of tee; if
> you check dir(tee), you'll see the string "name" as an entry. It does
> *not* assign to the attribute named by the string in the variable
> `name`.
> You want setattr():http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#setattr
> Assuming the rest of your code chunk is correct:
>
> setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  1 15:58:19 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:58:19 -0500
Subject: libpcap and python
In-Reply-To: <1cbd6f831002010447w4a2ab26dve66206919e99391@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1cbd6f831002010447w4a2ab26dve66206919e99391@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hk7f94$q6k$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/1/2010 7:47 AM, Mag Gam wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I used tcpdump to capture data on my network. I would like to analyze
> the data using python -- currently using ethereal and wireshark.
>
> I would like to get certain type of packets (I can get the hex code
> for them), what is the best way to do this? Lets say I want to capture
> all events of `ping localhost`

The following is pretty straightforward.

def process(dump, wanted, func):
   for packet in dump:
     if packet_type(packet) == wanted:
       func(packet)

Perhaps you can ask a more specific question.

Terry Jan Reedy



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  1 16:14:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:14:51 -0500
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
In-Reply-To: <6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk7g8r$tet$1@ger.gmane.org>

Oltmans wrote:
> Thank you for your help, Chris. Looks like I can now attach methods to
> class 'tee'. However, after attaching methods to 'tee' when I try to
> run them using suite.run() I don't see any of the methods running, I'm
> sorry but I've no clue what's failing this. Any insights will be
> highly appreciated. Here is the sample code
> filename: check.py
> ---
> import inspect
> import unittest
> 
> 
> class result(unittest.TestResult):
> 
>     def addSuccess(self,test):
>         print str(test) + ' succeeded'
>     def addError(self,test,err):
>         print 'An error occured while running the test ' + str(test) +
> ' and error is = ' + str(err)
>     def addFailure(self,test,err):
>         print str(test) + " failed with an error =" + str(err)
> 
> 
> 
> class test(unittest.TestCase):
>     def test_first(self):
>         print 'first test'
>     def test_second(self):
>         print 'second test'
>     def test_third(self):
>         print 'third test'
> 
> import new
> class tee(unittest.TestCase):
>     pass
> 
> if __name__=="__main__":
>     r = result()
>     for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
>         if name.find('test_')!= -1:
> 
>             setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))
> 
>     suite = unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromName('check.tee')
>     suite.run(r)
> ---
> 
> Then line suite.run(r) should have run the methods that we just
> attached, but it's not. I must be missing something here. Please
> enlighten me.
> 
Should not tee be subclassing test, not unittest.TestCase?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From info at feedmagnet.com  Mon Feb  1 16:15:05 2010
From: info at feedmagnet.com (Jason)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:15:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CheddarGetter module for Python - easy recurring billing
Message-ID: <972aa441-9a27-41ef-9c35-38ad5c141b33@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

We just released pychedder, an open source module for integrating
CheddarGetter with Python (and Django):

http://www.feedmagnet.com/blog/cheddargetter-for-python-and-django/

Anyone who's built commercial web app knows that payment processing
can be one of the toughest pieces to put in place - and it can
distract you from working on the core functionality of your app.
CheddarGetter is a web service that abstracts the entire process of
managing credit cards, processing transactions on a recurring basis,
and even more complex setups like free trials, setup fees, and
overage
charges.

We're using CheddarGetter for FeedMagnet.com and we thought the Python
community in general could benefit from the module we wrote to
interact with it. More just just a Python wrapper for CheddarGetter,
pycheddar gives you class objects that work a lot like Django models,
making the whole experience of integrating with CheddarGetter just a
little more awesome and Pythonic.

We're a week or two away from putting pycheddar into production on
FeedMagnet, but we felt like it was close enough that others could
start using it. We also published it to PyPi so you can easy_install
pycheddar and get the latest version (currently 0.9). Hope others can
benefit from it!

- Jason


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  1 16:16:47 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Feb 2010 13:16:47 -0800
Subject: starting a thread in a nother thread
References: <mailman.1480.1264597591.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1484.1264602223.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b604df9$0$6723$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<4b60a661$0$1598$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <hk7gbv$p2p$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b60a661$0$1598$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net>,
John Nagle  <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
>
>If a C package called from Python crashes, the package is defective.
>Nothing you can do from Python should be able to cause a segmentation
>fault.

...unless you use ctypes.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From gobladoome at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 16:21:56 2010
From: gobladoome at gmail.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:21:56 +1300
Subject: Problems embedding python 2.6 in C++
Message-ID: <5089497e1002011321h5328ed68y4bfab055f627ba74@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 code to add embedded python
scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls do
not work as expected.

The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it was
GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
(PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)

Here's the error I'm getting:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
get_giftcard_purchase_value
    details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
extract_transaction_details_section
    for line in base_details:
TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found

base_details is a list of strings (I can just define it like
'base_details=["1","2","3"...]' on the line previous) and the code runs fine
when run from standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine from
the embedded app.

I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor

Anyone else had issues of this kind? My next try will be to use
sub-interpreters per thread.

Thanks,
Paul.
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 16:25:41 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:25:41 -0300
Subject: Function name unchanged in error message
References: <fe938b2c-8a46-4db3-b078-f5f0845c1aa9@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<c00fc2cb-6a19-438c-b451-3bbf3c9330b0@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1625.1264797443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk0u3d$392$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gwg3wox6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:28:19 -0300, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>  
escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:09:40 -0300, Michele Simionato
>> <michele.simionato at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>> On Jan 29, 2:30 pm, andrew cooke <and... at acooke.org> wrote:

>>>> Is there any way to change the name of the function in an error
>>>> message?  In the example below I'd like the error to refer to bar(),
>>>> for example (the motivation is related function decorators - I'd like
>>>> the wrapper function to give the same name)
>>>
>>> Use the decorator module which does the right thing:
>>> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/decorator
>>
>> The decorator module is a very fine addition to anyone's tool set -- but
>> in this case it is enough to use the wraps() function from the functools
>> standard module.
>
> I don't know about the decorator module, but functools.wraps() doesn't
> affect the error message:

It seems I misunderstood the original request and got it backwards - but  
then I have to question the usefulness of doing so. If an error happens in  
the "decorating" function (as opposed to inside the function being  
decorated) I'd like the error to be reported as such, in the "decorating"  
function (else tracebacks and line numbers would be lying).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jakecjacobson at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 16:46:53 2010
From: jakecjacobson at gmail.com (jakecjacobson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:46:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Processing XML File
References: <6bac2d7b-509d-4f92-912f-5e8dc68c3f30@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6335f3$0$6573$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<mailman.1621.1264793513.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4b633a07$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <d34d2757-22ce-4cb5-940a-e029d9c0e4fd@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 29, 2:41?pm, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Sells, Fred, 29.01.2010 20:31:
>
> > Google is your friend. ?Elementtree is one of the better documented
> > IMHO, but there are many modules to do this.
>
> Unless the OP provides some more information, "do this" is rather
> underdefined. And sending someone off to Google who is just learning the
> basics of Python and XML and trying to solve a very specific problem with
> them is not exactly the spirit I'm used to in this newsgroup.
>
> Stefan

Just want to thank everyone for their posts.  I got it working after I
discovered a name space issue with this code.

xmlDoc = libxml2.parseDoc(guts)
# Ignore namespace and just get the Resource
resourceNodes = xmlDoc.xpathEval('//*[local-name()="Resource"]')
for rNode in resourceNodes:
    print rNode


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb  1 17:04:01 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:04:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: For loop searching takes too long!
References: <6ea6ebda-43af-4a77-a17e-0930cdd13258@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<bf8bbf55-7ed6-4a50-9c5b-b185bc0c2201@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<03738ee7$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <96e06a43-2197-4e93-9837-3c4b461985e0@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 29, 7:07?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:49:06 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > On Jan 28, 3:52?pm, elsa <kerensael... at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I've got a problem with my program, in that the code just takes too
> >> long to run. Here's what I'm doing. If anyone has any tips, they'd be
> >> much appreciated!
>
> > First of all, don't play with large lists. Large lists have a tendency
> > to grow larger over time, until they get absurdly large.
>
> > If you're dealing with a long list, work with it like you'd work with a
> > file. If you need random access, stick it in some form of database, such
> > as BDB or PostgreSQL. If you need an index, stick it in some form of DB.
> > Eventually, large lists end up like that anyway. Don't fool yourself
> > early on---prepare for the worst and solve the problems of tomorrow
> > today.
>
> Talk about premature optimization. The OP probably has a few hundreds of
> thousands of items, millions at most, which is trivial on a modern PC.
> Your way of thinking is what has led to Firefox using a database to
> manage a few thousand bookmarks and cookies, which in turn leads to
> consistent data corruption problems. (I've been keeping note, and so far
> my installation of Firefox 3 has had database corruption at startup one
> time out of five.)
>

I think there's a difference between writing your code so that you
have the option of using a database, or a flat file, or any other type
of serial data source, and actually using a database (or whatever.)

I prefer to write my code so that I don't have to re-write it 6 months
later.

Having worked with datasets that are truly enormous, whenever I see a
list that is unbounded (as this appears to be), I freak out because
unbounded can be a really, really big number. Might as well write
software that works for the truly enormous case and the really large
case and be done with it once and for all.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 17:11:26 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:11:26 -0300
Subject: OT: Instant Messenger Clients
References: <4dc0cfea1001311315u3494ad6bk792327d05447c96d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gylctfx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:15:34 -0300, Victor Subervi  
<victorsubervi at gmail.com> escribi?:

> I need to record my IM conversations. I'm using Gmal's IM client and I  
> can't
> figure out how to do it, nor do I find any help googling it.

Hard to believe... <http://www.google.com/talk/chathistory.html>

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb  1 17:13:38 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:13:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 30, 8:43?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:29:05 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > Python is much, much cleaner. I don't know how anyone can honestly say
> > Ruby is cleaner than Python.
>
> I'm not familiar with Ruby, but most languages are cleaner than Python
> once you get beyond the "10-minute introduction" stage.
>

Probably too little, too late (haven't read all of the replies yet...)

I judge a language's simplicity by how long it takes to explain the
complete language. That is, what minimal set of documentation do you
need to describe all of the language? With a handful of statements,
and a very short list of operators, Python beats out every language in
the Algol family that I know of.

I can think of only one language (or rather, a class of languages)
that can every hope to be shorter than Python. I doubt you've heard of
it based on your comments, but I suggest you look into it.
Unfortunately, to fully appreciate that language, you're going to have
to study a textbook called "SICP". At the end of that textbook, you
are blessed to not only see but understand the complete compiler for
the language, in the language itself.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 17:27:46 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:27:46 -0300
Subject: whassup? builtins? python3000? Naah can't be right?
References: <799ea994-d00f-485c-9164-ed4b66e750a5@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gzckynx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:17:04 -0300, _wolf <wolfgang.lipp at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> dear pythoneers,
>
> i would be very gladly accept any commentaries about what this
> sentence, gleaned from  
> http://celabs.com/python-3.1/reference/executionmodel.html,
> is meant to mean, or why gods have decided this is the way to go. i
> anticipate this guy named Kay Schluehr will have a say on that, or
> maybe even the BDFL will care to pronounce ``__builtins__`` the
> correct way to his fallovers, followers, and fellownerds::
>
>   The built-in namespace associated with the execution of
>   a code block is actually found by looking up the name
>   __builtins__ in its global namespace; this should be a
>   dictionary or a module (in the latter case the module?s
>   dictionary is used). By default, when in the __main__
>   module, __builtins__ is the built-in module builtins;
>   when in any other module, __builtins__ is an alias for
>   the dictionary of the builtins module itself.
>   __builtins__ can be set to a user-created dictionary to
>   create a weak form of restricted execution.

Short answer: use `import builtins` (spelled __builtin__, no 's' and  
double underscores, in Python 2.x) to access the module containing the  
predefined (built-in) objects.

Everything else is an implementation detail.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb  1 17:28:28 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:28:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 31, 3:01?am, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 30, 10:43?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> > That's also true for most functional languages, e.g. Haskell and ML, as
> > well as e.g. Tcl and most shells. Why require "f(x)" or "(f x)" if "f x"
> > will suffice?
>
> yuck! wrapping the arg list with parenthesis (python way) makes the
> most sense. Its to easy to misread somthing like this
>
> onetwothree four five six
>
> onetwothree(four, five, six) #ahhh... plain english.

In Lisp-ish languages, you have a list of stuff that represents a
function call:

 (a b c d)

means: Call "a" with values (b, c, d)

While this certainly doesn't agree with what you learned in Algebra,
it is a reasonable syntax that exposes the code-data duality of
programs. There is, however, one fatal flaw. Why is the first element
so different than the rest? This is inconsistent with what people who
are unfamiliar with the language would expect. Indeed, in teaching
Lisp, learners have to be reminded about how the evaluator looks at
lists and processes them.

I would expect a clear, simple language to have exactly one way to
call a function. This calling notation would clearly distinguish
between the function and its parameters. There are quite a few
options, and it turns out that "function(arg, arg, arg)" is a really
good compromise.

One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
need even more syntax to do so. In perl:

 foo();       # Call 'foo' with no args.
 $bar = foo;  # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
 $bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
              # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
 $bar->()     # Call whatever '$bar' is pointing at with no args

Compare with python:

 foo()       # Call 'foo' with no args.
 bar = foo() # 'bar' is now pointing to whatever 'foo()' returned
 bar = foo   # 'bar' is now pointing to the same thing 'foo' points to
 bar()       # Call 'bar' with no args

One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
function calls with references.

Note that the Algebra notation of functions allows for an obvious,
simple way to refer to functions without calling them, leading to
syntax such as "f o g (x)" and more.


From astan.chee at al.com.au  Mon Feb  1 17:34:38 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:34:38 +1100
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
Message-ID: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>

Hi,
I have xml files that I want to convert to a hash/dict and then further 
placed in a wx CustomTreeCtrl based on the structure. The problem I am 
having now is that the XML file is very unusual and there aren't any 
unique identifiers to be put in a dict and because there are no unique 
variables, finding the value of it from a CustromTreeCtrl is abit tricky.
I would appreciate any help or links to projects similar to this.
Thanks

The XML file looks something like this:
<doc>
<rm:statsDoc xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
    <stats name="position1" description="Calculation statistics" 
kind="position">
    <stats name="time" description="Timing summary" kind="section">
        <string name="timersNote" description="Note:">This is the note 
on calculation times</string>
        <stats name="timers" kind="timers">

        <timer name="totaltime" description="Total time">
            <elapsed>609.081574</elapsed>
            <user>2531.972081</user>
            <system>65.119100</system>
        </timer>
        <timer name="partialTimer" description="Gravitational Displacement">
            <elapsed>1772.011230</elapsed>
        </timer>
        <stats name="subTimers" description="All non-phased time" 
kind="timers">
            <timer name="subATimer" description="Phase time A">
            <elapsed>72.418861</elapsed>
            </timer>

            <timer name="subBTimer" description="Phase time B">
            <elapsed>28.285192</elapsed>
            </timer>
            <timer name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
            <elapsed>0.000</elapsed>
            </timer>
        </stats>
        <timer name="endTime" description="End">
            <elapsed>607.432373</elapsed>
        </timer>
        </stats>
    </stats>
    <stats name="space" description="Space usage summary" kind="section">
        <stats name="systemSpace" description="System Space">
        <memory name="heapSpace" description="Total Space">
            <peak>4833280000</peak>

            <current>4833280000</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="spaceResidentSize" description="Space resident size">
            <peak>4182777856</peak>
            <current>4182777856</current>
        </memory>
        <int name="pageMem">1</int>

        <int name="memReclaims">1943498</int>
        <int name="memSwaps">0</int>
        </stats>
        <stats name="subsystems" kind="memstats">
        <memory name="geoSpace" description="Geo-Space">
            <peak>1640100156</peak>
            <current>411307840</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="gridSpace" description="Grid-Space">
            <peak>709596712</peak>
            <current>1406752</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
            <peak>737720720</peak>
            <current>0</current>
        </memory>
                <memory name="endTime" description="End">
            <peak>607.432373</peak>
        </memory>
        </stats>
            <memory name="subsystemSpace" description="Subsystem space 
total">
        <peak>5164184694</peak>
        <current>2054715622</current>
        </memory>

    </stats>
    </stats>
</rm:statsDoc>
</doc>



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb  1 17:35:57 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 31, 12:43?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> If it was common-place to use Curried functions and partial application in
> Python, you'd probably prefer "f a b c" to "f(a)(b)(c)" as well.
>

That's just the point. It isn't common to play with curried functions
or monads or anything like that in computer science today. Yes,
Haskell exists, and is a great experiment in how such a language could
actually work. But at the same time, you have to have a brain the size
of the titanic to contain all the little details about the language
before you could write any large-scale application.

Meanwhile, Python's syntax and language is simple and clean, and
provides tremendous expressiveness without getting in the way of the
programmer.

Comparing Python's syntax to Haskell's syntax, Python is simpler.
Comparing what Python can do to what Haskell can do, Haskell is much
faster at certain tasks and allows the expression of certain things
that are difficult to express in Python. But at the end of the day,
the difference really doesn't matter that much.

Now, compare Python versus Language X along the same lines, and the
end result is that (a) Python is extraordinarily more simple than
Langauge X, and (b) Python is comparable in expressiveness to Language
X. That's the #1 reason why I like Python, and why saying Ruby and
Python are similar isn't correct.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 17:36:36 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:36:36 -0300
Subject: ftp.storlines error
References: <24ffaab0-f319-4019-97cf-56a7531e3eef@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gzraydx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:07:44 -0300, Mik0b0 <newssw at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Good day/night/etc.
> I am rather a newb in Python (learning Python 3). I am trying to
> create a small script for FTP file uploads  on my home network. The
> script looks like this:
>
> from ftplib import FTP
> ftp=FTP('10.0.0.1')
> ftp.login('mike','*****')
> directory='/var/www/blabla/'
> ftp.cwd(directory)
> ftp.retrlines('LIST')
> print('<- - - - - - - - - >')
> file_to_change='test'
> file=1
> file=open(file_to_change,'w')
> text='test'
> file.write(text)
> ftp.storlines('STOR ' + file_to_change,file)
> ftp.retrlines('LIST')
> file.close()
>
> The output is like this:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "ftp.py", line 13, in <module>
>     ftp.storlines('STOR ' + file_to_change,i)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.1/ftplib.py", line 474, in storlines
>     buf = fp.readline()
> IOError: not readable

For the ftp client to be able to read and upload the file, it must have  
been opened for reading. But you opened it with mode 'w' a few lines above.
A quick and dirty way would be to close the file right after  
file.write(...) and re-open it with mode 'r':

   ...
   file.write(text)
   file.close()
   file = open(file_to_change,'r')
   ftp.storlines(...)

But I'd separate file-creation from file-uploading. When it's time to  
upload the file, assume it already exists and has the desired contents  
(because it has already been created earlier by the same script, or  
perhaps by some other process), so you just have to open it with mode 'r'.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 17:39:09 2010
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:39:09 +0000
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a1002011439q2db58f2ai42fb9c0c2bc19d23@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/1 Gerald Britton <gerald.britton at gmail.com>:
> Hi -- I have many sections of code like this:
>
> ? ?for value in value_iterator:
> ? ? ? ? value_function(value)
>
> I noticed that this does two things I don't like:
>...
> --
> Gerald Britton
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Hi,
just to add to the collection of possible approaches (personally, I
find the straightforward versions fine, given the task ... )
If you know, that the called function (used for side effect in any
case) doesn't return any "true" value, you could use
any(...) over a generator expression or imap
(or, inversely, all(...) if there are "true" returns all the time).

Not that it improves clarity, but something like a dummy
reduce(lambda x, y: None, <genexp>, None) might (kind of) work for
arbitrary returns. Both variants only have a redundant boolean or None
value.
vbr


From cjblaine at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 17:44:09 2010
From: cjblaine at gmail.com (cjblaine)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:44:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
Message-ID: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Hey everyone, this has been driving me crazy for long enough now that
I'm motivated to post and find an answer.

Before I pose my question, let me state that using LD_LIBRARY_PATH is
not the answer :)

We have things installed in odd places, such as very specific versions
of libraries to link against, etc.

When I build a module (let's say PyGreSQL for instance) via python
setup.py build, the link part is including a proper -L argument (-L/
some/weird/lib because /some/weird/bin was in PATH), but is omitting
the additional needed runtime linker arguments.

For Solaris that's -R/some/weird/lib

For Linux that's -Xlinker -rpath -Xlinker /some/weird/lib

Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?

A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):

% python setup.py build
...
gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
%


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  1 17:56:23 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:56:23 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hk7m6i$n4h$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/1/2010 11:50 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
> Hi -- I have many sections of code like this:
>
>      for value in value_iterator:
>           value_function(value)
>
> I noticed that this does two things I don't like:
>
> 1. looks up "value_function" and "value" for each iteration, but
> "value_function" doesn't change.

What you mean by 'looks up'? And why are you bothered by normal Python 
expression evaluation? Within a function, the 'look_up' is a fast 
LOAD_FAST instruction.

> 2. side effect of (maybe) leaking the iterator variable "value" into
> the code following the loop (if the iterator is not empty).

So? it is sometime useful.
>
> I can take care of 2 by explicitly deleting the variable at the end:
>
>     del value
>
> but I'd probably forget to do that sometimes.

So? If having 'value' bound breaks your subsequent code, I consider it 
buggy.

   I then realized that,
> in the 2.x series, I can accomplish the same thing with:
>
>      map(value_function, value_iterator)
>
> and avoid both problems BUT map() returns a list which is never used.
> Not a big deal for small iterables, I guess, but it seems messy.  Upon
> conversion to 3.x I have to explicitly list-ify it:
>
>      list(map(value_function, value_iterator))
>
> which works but again the list returned is never used (extra work) and
> has to be gc'd I suppose (extra memory).
>
> It's easy to make a little function to take care of this (2.x):
>
>      from itertools import imap
>      def apply(function, iterable):
>          for item in imap(function, iterable):
>              pass

collections.deque(imap(function, iterable), maxlen=0)
will do nearly the same and may be faster.

> then later:
>
>     apply(value_function, value_iterator)
>
> or something similar thing in 3.x, but that just adds an additional
> function def that I have to include whenever I want to do something
> like this.
>
> So.....I'm wondering if there is any interest in an apply() built-in
> function that would work like map() does in 2.x (calls the function
> with each value returned by the iterator) but return nothing.  Maybe
> "apply" isn't the best name; it's just the first one that occurred to
> me.
>
> Or is this just silly and should I forget about it?

In my opinion, forget about it.

Terry Jan Reedy



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 17:59:32 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:59:32 -0300
Subject: Problems embedding python 2.6 in C++
References: <5089497e1002011321h5328ed68y4bfab055f627ba74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7g0tijgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:21:56 -0300, Paul <gobladoome at gmail.com> escribi?:

> I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 code to add embedded python
> scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls  
> do
> not work as expected.
>
> The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it  
> was
> GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
> PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
> (PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)
>
> Here's the error I'm getting:
>
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
> get_giftcard_purchase_value
>     details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
>   File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
> extract_transaction_details_section
>     for line in base_details:
> TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found
>
> base_details is a list of strings (I can just define it like
> 'base_details=["1","2","3"...]' on the line previous) and the code runs  
> fine
> when run from standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine  
> from
> the embedded app.
> I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
> after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
> constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor

Usually, errors in reference count handling prevent objects from being  
destroyed (a memory leak) or generate a GPF when accessing an  
now-inexistent object. In principle I'd look elsewhere.

> Anyone else had issues of this kind?

Hard to tell without more info. base_details is built in C++ code? Is it  
actually a list, or a subclass defined by you?
A common error is to forget to check *every* API function call for errors,  
so errors get unnoticed for a while but are reported on the next check,  
which may happen in an entirely unrelated function.

> My next try will be to use
> sub-interpreters per thread.

I would not do that - I'd try to *simplify* the code to test, not make it  
more complicated.
Does it work in a single-threaded application?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  1 18:00:12 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:00:12 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hk7mdm$nss$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/1/2010 3:05 PM, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> You have itertools.consume which is close to what you want:
>
>      consume(imap(func, iterable)) # 2.x
>
>      consume(map(func, iterable)) # 3.x

Consume is not in itertools. It is one of many recipes in the doc 
(9.7.2). For exhausting an iterator, collections.deque(iterator, maxlen=0).



From Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de  Mon Feb  1 18:05:16 2010
From: Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Hermann Lauer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:05:16 +0100
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
Message-ID: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>

Dear All,

while trying to optimize some unpack operations with self compiling 
code I wondered howto invoke the optimization in the exec statement.
Even starting with -O or -OO yields in Python 2.5.2 the same dis.dis code, which
is appended below.

My interest would be to reduce the LOAD_FAST ops of "s" with DUP_TOP on the stack
(are there hash lookups behind those ?) and of course to optimize the integer
arithmetics following below (removing +-0 etc).

Thanks for any ideas,
greetings
  Hermann


>>> import dis
>>> g=r.rra.LAST3.getter(ds=0,row=0)

class fa(struct.Struct):
  def __init__(s):
    super(fa,s).__init__('d')

  def __call__(s,):
      return s.unpack_from(s.buf,5392+(((s.lastrow()-0)%2880)*3+0)*8)[0]

>>> dis.dis(g.__call__)
  7           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
              3 LOAD_ATTR                0 (unpack_from)
              6 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
              9 LOAD_ATTR                1 (buf)
             12 LOAD_CONST               1 (5392)
             15 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
             18 LOAD_ATTR                2 (lastrow)
             21 CALL_FUNCTION            0
             24 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
             27 BINARY_SUBTRACT     
             28 LOAD_CONST               3 (2880)
             31 BINARY_MODULO       
             32 LOAD_CONST               4 (3)
             35 BINARY_MULTIPLY     
             36 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
             39 BINARY_ADD          
             40 LOAD_CONST               5 (8)
             43 BINARY_MULTIPLY     
             44 BINARY_ADD          
             45 CALL_FUNCTION            2
             48 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
             51 BINARY_SUBSCR       
             52 RETURN_VALUE        


-- 
Netzwerkadministration/Zentrale Dienste, Interdiziplinaeres 
Zentrum fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen der Universitaet Heidelberg
IWR; INF 368; 69120 Heidelberg; Tel: (06221)54-8236 Fax: -5224
Email: Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 18:07:03 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:07:03 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002011507m35902e99hca59d26101bc644@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Jonathan Gardner
<jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> On Jan 31, 3:01?am, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 30, 10:43?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
>> > That's also true for most functional languages, e.g. Haskell and ML, as
>> > well as e.g. Tcl and most shells. Why require "f(x)" or "(f x)" if "f x"
>> > will suffice?
>>
>> yuck! wrapping the arg list with parenthesis (python way) makes the
>> most sense. Its to easy to misread somthing like this
>>
>> onetwothree four five six
>>
>> onetwothree(four, five, six) #ahhh... plain english.
>
> In Lisp-ish languages, you have a list of stuff that represents a
> function call:
>
> ?(a b c d)
>
> means: Call "a" with values (b, c, d)
>
> While this certainly doesn't agree with what you learned in Algebra,
> it is a reasonable syntax that exposes the code-data duality of
> programs. There is, however, one fatal flaw. Why is the first element
> so different than the rest? This is inconsistent with what people who
> are unfamiliar with the language would expect. Indeed, in teaching
> Lisp, learners have to be reminded about how the evaluator looks at
> lists and processes them.
>
> I would expect a clear, simple language to have exactly one way to
> call a function. This calling notation would clearly distinguish
> between the function and its parameters. There are quite a few
> options, and it turns out that "function(arg, arg, arg)" is a really
> good compromise.
>
> One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
> ?foo(); ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> ?$bar = foo; ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
> ?$bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
> ?$bar->() ? ? # Call whatever '$bar' is pointing at with no args
>
> Compare with python:
>
> ?foo() ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> ?bar = foo() # 'bar' is now pointing to whatever 'foo()' returned
> ?bar = foo ? # 'bar' is now pointing to the same thing 'foo' points to
> ?bar() ? ? ? # Call 'bar' with no args
>
> One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> function calls with references.

Ruby isn't nearly as bad as Perl in this regard; at least it doesn't
introduce extra syntax (though there are extra method calls):

foo    # Call 'foo' with no args.
bar = foo  # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to bar
bar = method(:foo)  # 'bar' is now referencing the 'foo' "function"
bar.call    # Call 'bar' (i.e. 'foo') with no args

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From as at sci.fi  Mon Feb  1 18:08:39 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:08:39 +0200
Subject: myths about python 3
References: <mailman.1470.1264588330.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b60a4c3$0$1655$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.1640.1264822423.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vg3vdegy2o8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

Blog <Blogtest77 at gmail.com> writes:

> Where did you come up with that information? Almost all of the major
> distros ship with 2.6.x - CentOS, OpenSuSe, Ubuntu, Fedora. (Debian
> does ship with 2.5, but the next major release "sid' is due out in Q2)

I don't see Python 2.6 in my CentOS 5.4 installation. All I see is
2.4. Same as RHEL and I'd say that's a fairly major distribution too.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb  1 18:08:48 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:08:48 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xeil4tuyn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> I judge a language's simplicity by how long it takes to explain the
> complete language. That is, what minimal set of documentation do you
> need to describe all of the language? With a handful of statements,
> and a very short list of operators, Python beats out every language in
> the Algol family that I know of.

Python may have been like that in the 1.5 era.  By now it's more
complex, and not all that well documented.  Consider the different
subclassing rules for new and old style classes, the interaction of
metaclasses and multiple inheritance, the vagaries of what operations
are thread-safe without locks, the inter-thread signalling mechanism
that can only be invoked through the C API, the mysteries of
generator-based coroutines, etc.  I've never used Ruby and I think its
syntax is ugly, but everyone tells me it's more uniform.

Simplicity is not necessarily such a good thing anyway.  Consider FORTH.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Feb  1 18:12:34 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:12:34 +0100
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B675FE2.4090404@v.loewis.de>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:30:56 +0100, Martin v. Loewis a ?crit :
>>> Is this a bug in Python 2.6 or a deliberate choice regarding
>>> implementation concerns I don't know about?
>> It's actually a bug also that you pass an array; doing so *should* give
>> the very same error.
> 
> Well, if you can give neither an array nor a bytearray to recv_into(), 
> what *could* you give it?

My recommendation would be to not use recv_into in 2.x, but only in 3.x.

> recv_into() should simply be fixed to use the new buffer API, as it does 
> in 3.x.

I don't think that's the full solution. The array module should also
implement the new buffer API, so that it would also fail with the old
recv_into.

Regards,
Martin


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  1 18:29:55 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Feb 2010 15:29:55 -0800
Subject: interaction of mode 'r+', file.write(), and file.tell(): a bug or
	undefined behavior?
References: <4b617f4a$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <hk7o5j$oj$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b617f4a$1 at dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
Lie Ryan  <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>f = open('input.txt', 'r+')
>for line in f:
>    s = line.replace('python', 'PYTHON')
>    # f.tell()
>    f.write(s)
>
>When f.tell() is commented, 'input.txt' does not change; but when
>uncommented, the f.write() succeeded writing into the 'input.txt'
>(surprisingly, but not entirely unexpected, at the end of the file).

Another possible issue is that using a file iterator is generally not
compatible with direct file operations.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From andrewdalke at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 19:02:24 2010
From: andrewdalke at gmail.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:02:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4B675FE2.4090404@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <942aa99d-1bc1-4aa8-867a-6366cb3668a1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 12:12?am, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> My recommendation would be to not use recv_into in 2.x, but only in 3.x.

> I don't think that's the full solution. The array module should also
> implement the new buffer API, so that it would also fail with the old
> recv_into.

Okay. But recv_into was added in 2.5 and the test case in
2.6's test_socket.py clearly allows an array there:


    def testRecvInto(self):
        buf = array.array('c', ' '*1024)
        nbytes = self.cli_conn.recv_into(buf)
        self.assertEqual(nbytes, len(MSG))
        msg = buf.tostring()[:len(MSG)]
        self.assertEqual(msg, MSG)

Checking koders and Google Code search engines, I found one project
which used recv_into, with the filename bmpreceiver.py . It
uses a array.array("B", [0] * length) .

Clearly it was added to work with an array, and it's
being used with an array. Why shouldn't people use it
with Python 2.x?

                Andrew
                dalke at dalkescientific.com


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 19:49:00 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Feb 2010 00:49:00 GMT
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:19:52 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

>> Personally, I think it is a terribly idea to keep the source file and
>> byte code file in such radically different places. They should be kept
>> together. What you call "clutter" I call having the files that belong
>> together kept together.
> 
> I see why you think so, it's reasonable, however there is compelling
> argument, I think, for the opposite view: namely to keep things
> separate. An average developer definitely wants easy access to .py
> files. However I see no good reason for having access to .pyc files. I
> for one have never inspected a .pyc file. Why would you want to have a
> .pyc file at hand?

If you don't care about access to .pyc files, why do you care where they 
are? If they are in a subdirectory module.pyr, then shrug and ignore the 
subdirectory. 

If you (generic you) are one of those developers who don't care 
about .pyc files, then when you are browsing your source directory and 
see this:


module.py
module.pyc 

you just ignore the .pyc file. Or delete it, and Python will re-create it 
as needed. So if you see

module.pyr/

just ignore that as well.



> If we don't really want to have .pyc files in convenient locations
> because we (almost) never want to access them really, then I'd say it's
> a good idea to keep them totally separate and so make don't get in the
> way.

I like seeing them in the same place as the source file, because when I 
start developing a module, I often end up renaming it multiple times 
before it settles on a final name. When I rename or move it, I delete 
the .pyc file, and that ensures that if I miss changing an import, and 
try to import the old name, it will fail.

By hiding the .pyc file elsewhere, it is easy to miss deleting one, and 
then the import won't fail, it will succeed, but use the old, obsolete 
byte code.



-- 
Steven


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Feb  1 20:00:50 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:00:50 +0100
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
In-Reply-To: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B677942.2090002@cheimes.de>

cjblaine wrote:
> Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
> install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?

Python's distutils doesn't alter the library search path unless you tell
it explicitly.

> A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):
> 
> % python setup.py build
> ....
> gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
> apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
> %

The Extension() class supports the rpath argument. Simply add
rpath="/path/to/library/dir" and you are good.

Christian


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  1 20:02:01 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:02:01 -0500
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
In-Reply-To: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hk7ti3$bjs$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/1/2010 6:05 PM, Hermann Lauer wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> while trying to optimize some unpack operations with self compiling
> code I wondered howto invoke the optimization in the exec statement.
> Even starting with -O or -OO yields in Python 2.5.2 the same dis.dis code, which
> is appended below.

Currently, as far as I know, -0 just removes asserts.

>
> My interest would be to reduce the LOAD_FAST ops of "s" with DUP_TOP on the stack
> (are there hash lookups behind those ?)

Load_fast is a locals array lookup. load_fast      0 (s) means "put 
locals[0] on the top of the stack". The '(s)' is added for the human reader.

> and of course to optimize the integer
> arithmetics following below (removing +-0 etc).

Something + 0 is no necessarily something. It depends on the type of 
something. So the interpreter will not optimize it away. What concretely 
happens with int+0 is a different matter. You can remove it though, if 
you want to get into byte-code hacking, but why write '+0' if you do not 
want it?


> Thanks for any ideas,
> greetings
>    Hermann
>
>
>>>> import dis
>>>> g=r.rra.LAST3.getter(ds=0,row=0)
>
> class fa(struct.Struct):
>    def __init__(s):
>      super(fa,s).__init__('d')
>
>    def __call__(s,):
>        return s.unpack_from(s.buf,5392+(((s.lastrow()-0)%2880)*3+0)*8)[0]
>
>>>> dis.dis(g.__call__)
>    7           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
>                3 LOAD_ATTR                0 (unpack_from)
>                6 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
>                9 LOAD_ATTR                1 (buf)
>               12 LOAD_CONST               1 (5392)
>               15 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
>               18 LOAD_ATTR                2 (lastrow)
>               21 CALL_FUNCTION            0
>               24 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
>               27 BINARY_SUBTRACT
>               28 LOAD_CONST               3 (2880)
>               31 BINARY_MODULO
>               32 LOAD_CONST               4 (3)
>               35 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               36 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
>               39 BINARY_ADD
>               40 LOAD_CONST               5 (8)
>               43 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               44 BINARY_ADD
>               45 CALL_FUNCTION            2
>               48 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
>               51 BINARY_SUBSCR
>               52 RETURN_VALUE

Terry Jan Reedy





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 20:12:04 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Feb 2010 01:12:04 GMT
Subject: For loop searching takes too long!
References: <6ea6ebda-43af-4a77-a17e-0930cdd13258@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<bf8bbf55-7ed6-4a50-9c5b-b185bc0c2201@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<03738ee7$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<96e06a43-2197-4e93-9837-3c4b461985e0@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.01.12.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:04:01 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> Having worked with datasets that are truly enormous, whenever I see a
> list that is unbounded (as this appears to be), I freak out because
> unbounded can be a really, really big number. Might as well write
> software that works for the truly enormous case and the really large
> case and be done with it once and for all.


Then write it to work on iterators, if at all possible, and you won't 
care how large the data stream is. Even databases have limits!

Of course you should write your code to deal with your expected data, but 
it is possible to commit overkill as well as underkill. There are trade-
offs between development effort, runtime speed, memory usage, and size of 
data you can deal with, and maximizing the final one is not always the 
best strategy.

Look at it this way... for most applications, you probably don't use 
arbitrary precision floats even though floating point numbers can have an 
unbounded number of decimal places. But in practice, you almost never 
need ten decimal places to pi, let alone an infinite number. If the 
creators of floating point libraries wrote software "that works for the 
truly enormous case", the overhead would be far too high for nearly all 
applications.

Choose your algorithm according to your expected need. If you under-
estimate your need, you will write slow code, and if you over-estimate 
it, you'll write slow code too. Getting that balance right is why they 
pay software architects the big bucks *wink*



-- 
Steven


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Feb  1 20:17:14 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:17:14 +0100
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
In-Reply-To: <hk7ti3$bjs$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hk7ti3$bjs$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B677D1A.9000403@cheimes.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> Currently, as far as I know, -0 just removes asserts.

-O (not -0) also sets __debug__ to False.

Christian


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 20:19:43 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:19:43 -0300
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
References: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <op.u7g7a5xwx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:05:16 -0300, Hermann Lauer  
<Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> escribi?:

> while trying to optimize some unpack operations with self compiling
> code I wondered howto invoke the optimization in the exec statement.
> Even starting with -O or -OO yields in Python 2.5.2 the same dis.dis  
> code, which
> is appended below.

There is not much difference with -O or -OO; assert statements are  
removed, __debug__ is False, docstrings are not stored (in -OO). Code  
generation is basically the same.

> My interest would be to reduce the LOAD_FAST ops of "s" with DUP_TOP on  
> the stack
> (are there hash lookups behind those ?)

No, no lookup is performed at run time. LOAD_FAST takes an integer  
argument, an index into the locals array. The compiler knows (by static  
analysis, at compile time) which names are local; those objects are stored  
in a C array. I've not done such microbenchmark, but using DUP_TOP instead  
might even be slower.

> and of course to optimize the integer
> arithmetics following below (removing +-0 etc).

Can't you remove it from source beforehand? (or, from  
`r.rra.LAST3.getter(ds=0,row=0)` since it looks like a code generator)

In general, x+0 may execute arbitrary code, depending on the type of x.  
Only if you could determine that x will always be an integer, you could  
optimize +0 away. Python (the current version of CPython) does not perform  
such analysis; you may investigate psyco, Unladen Swallow, ShedSkin for  
such things.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb  1 21:03:18 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:03:18 +0000
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.02.00.42.31000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:36:32 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>> for example, in if you have a function 'f' which takes two parameters to
>> call the function and get the result you use:
>> 
>>  f 2 3
>> 
>> If you want the function itself you use:
>> 
>>    f
> 
> How do you call a function of no arguments?

There's no such thing. All functions take one argument and return a value.

As functions don't have side-effects, there is seldom much point in having
a function with no arguments or which doesn't return a value. In cases
where it is useful (i.e. a value must have function type), you can use the
unit type "()" (essentially a zero-element tuple), e.g.:

	f () = 1
or:
	f x = ()



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  1 21:14:03 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:14:03 +0000
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.02.02.00.42.31000@nowhere.com>
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.00.42.31000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <4B678A6B.6060003@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Nobody wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:36:32 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>>> for example, in if you have a function 'f' which takes two parameters to
>>> call the function and get the result you use:
>>>
>>>  f 2 3
>>>
>>> If you want the function itself you use:
>>>
>>>    f
>> How do you call a function of no arguments?
> 
> There's no such thing. All functions take one argument and return a value.
> 
> As functions don't have side-effects, there is seldom much point in having
> a function with no arguments or which doesn't return a value. In cases
> where it is useful (i.e. a value must have function type), you can use the
> unit type "()" (essentially a zero-element tuple), e.g.:
> 
> 	f () = 1
> or:
> 	f x = ()
> 
A function with no arguments could be used as a lazy constant, generated
only on demand.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 21:17:04 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:17:04 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <4B678A6B.6060003@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.00.42.31000@nowhere.com>
	<4B678A6B.6060003@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002011817t572edf0fo52954a7f4a192b03@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:14 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Nobody wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:36:32 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>> for example, in if you have a function 'f' which takes two parameters to
>>>> call the function and get the result you use:
>>>>
>>>> ?f 2 3
>>>>
>>>> If you want the function itself you use:
>>>>
>>>> ? f
>>>
>>> How do you call a function of no arguments?
>>
>> There's no such thing. All functions take one argument and return a value.
>>
>> As functions don't have side-effects, there is seldom much point in having
>> a function with no arguments or which doesn't return a value. In cases
>> where it is useful (i.e. a value must have function type), you can use the
>> unit type "()" (essentially a zero-element tuple), e.g.:
>>
>> ? ? ? ?f () = 1
>> or:
>> ? ? ? ?f x = ()
>>
> A function with no arguments could be used as a lazy constant, generated
> only on demand.

The usefulness of that depends on a language's evaluation strategy.
Haskell, for instance, uses lazy evaluation by default, so your use
case doesn't apply in that instance.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb  1 21:21:55 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:21:55 +0000
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:35:57 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

>> If it was common-place to use Curried functions and partial application in
>> Python, you'd probably prefer "f a b c" to "f(a)(b)(c)" as well.
> 
> That's just the point. It isn't common to play with curried functions
> or monads or anything like that in computer science today. Yes,
> Haskell exists, and is a great experiment in how such a language could
> actually work. But at the same time, you have to have a brain the size
> of the titanic to contain all the little details about the language
> before you could write any large-scale application.

No, not really. Haskell (and previously ML) are often used as introductory
languages in Comp.Sci. courses (at least in the UK).

You don't need to know the entire language before you can use any of it
(if you did, Python would be deader than a certain parrot; Python's dark
corners are *really* dark).

The lack of mutable state (or at least, the isolation of it within monads)
eliminates a lot of potential problems. How many Python novices get
tripped up by "x = y = [] ; x.append(...); # now y has changed"?

And in spite of the category theory behind monads, Haskell's I/O system
really isn't any more complex than that of any other language, beyond the
constraint that you can only use it in "procedures" (i.e. something
returning an IO instance), not in functions. Which for the most part, is a
net win, as it forces you to maintain a reasonable degree of structure.

Now, if you actually want to use everything the language has to offer, you
can run into some fairly hairy error messages. But then I've found that to
be a common problem with generic programming in general. E.g. error
messages relating to the C++ STL can be quite insanely complex
(particularly when the actual error is "there are so many nested templates
that the mangled function name is longer than the linker can handle" and
it's trying to explain *where* the error is).



From no.email at please.post  Mon Feb  1 21:34:07 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:34:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
Message-ID: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>



I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.

An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines
long, and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was
quickly dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to
my screen (aka gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my
terminal *royally*.  Here's buggy.py:



import sys
import psycopg2
connection_params = "dbname='%s' user='%s' password='%s'" % tuple(sys.argv[1:])
conn = psycopg2.connect(connection_params)
cur = conn.cursor()
cur.execute('SELECT * FROM version;')
print '\n'.join(x[-1] for x in cur.fetchall())


(Of course, buggy.py is pretty useless; I reduced the original,
more useful, script to this to help me debug it.)

Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.  (This second script
is one I wrote as part of a little Python tutorial I put together
months ago, and is not much more of a script than hello_world.py;
it's baby-steps for the absolute beginner.  But apparently, it has
a killer name!  I had completely forgotten about it.)

Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
one-off scripts like the two of them.  I'll call this directory
myscripts in what follows. 

It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
mayhem*.

(This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
for me.)

How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
of a future release.

What else can one do?  Let's see, one should put every script in its
own directory, thereby containing the damage.

Anything else?

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

TIA!

~k


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb  1 21:36:44 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:36:44 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> One of the bad things with languages like perl

FYI: the language is called Perl, the program that executes a Perl
program is called perl.

> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
>  foo();       # Call 'foo' with no args.
>  $bar = foo;  # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
>  $bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
>               # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!

It should be $bar = \&foo 
Your example actually calls foo...

[..]

> One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> function calls with references.

The syntax follows that of referencing and dereferencing:

$bar = \@array;       # bar contains now a reference to array
$bar->[ 0 ];          # first element of array referenced by bar
$bar = \%hash;        # bar contains now a reference to a hash
$bar->{ key };        # value associated with key of hash ref. by bar
$bar = \&foo;         # bar contains now a reference to a sub
$bar->( 45 );         # call sub ref. by bar with 45 as an argument

Consistent: yes. New syntax? No.

Also, it helps to think of

$ as a thing
@ as thingies indexed by numbers
% as thingies indexed by keys

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 21:50:16 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:50:16 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>

>
> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
> the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
> for me.)
>
> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
> and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
> not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
> of a future release.
>


First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.

Secondly, I use packages structuring my libraries, and avoid junk
directories of a hundred some odd 'scripts'.

Third, I don't execute scripts in that directory structure directly, but
instead do python -c 'from package.blah import main; main.main()' or some
such. Usually via some short-cut, or a runner batch file.

Note that the third avoids the above problem entirely, but that's not why I
do it. Its just a side-effect.

--S
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb  1 21:50:55 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:50:55 +0000
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.02.48.19.187000@nowhere.com>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:13:38 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> I judge a language's simplicity by how long it takes to explain the
> complete language. That is, what minimal set of documentation do you
> need to describe all of the language?

That's not a particularly good metric, IMHO.

A simple "core" language doesn't necessarily make a language simple to
use. You can explain the entirety of pure lambda calculus or combinators
in five minutes, but you wouldn't want to write real code in either (and
you certainly wouldn't want to read such code which was written by someone
else).

For a start, languages with a particularly simple "core" tend to delegate
too much to the library. One thing which puts a lot of people off of
lisp is the lack of infix operators; after all, (* 2 (+ 3 4)) works fine
and doesn't require any additional language syntax. For an alternative,
Tcl provides the "expr" function which essentially provides a sub-language
for arithmetic expressions.

A better metric is whether using N features has O(N) complexity, or O(N^2)
(where you have to understand how each feature relates to each other
feature) or even O(2^N) (where you have to understand every possible
combination of interactions).

> With a handful of statements,
> and a very short list of operators, Python beats out every language in
> the Algol family that I know of.

Not once you move beyond the 10-minute introduction, and have to start
thinking in terms of x + y is x.__add__(y) or maybe y.__radd__(x) and also
that x.__add__(y) is x.__getattribute__('__add__')(y) (but x + y *isn't*
equivalent to the latter due to __slots__), and maybe .__coerce__() gets
involved somewhere, and don't even get me started on __metaclass__ or
__init__ versus __new__ or ...

Yes, the original concept was very nice and clean, but everything since
then has been wedged in there by sheer force with a bloody great hammer.




From sccolbert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 21:54:04 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:54:04 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002011854h47a61da7j8740be722b8eb656@mail.gmail.com>

This is kinda akin to creating your own libc.so in a folder where your
compiling and executing c programs and then wondering why your program bugs
out....

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:34 PM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

>
>
> I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.
>
> An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines
> long, and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was
> quickly dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to
> my screen (aka gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my
> terminal *royally*.  Here's buggy.py:
>
>
>
> import sys
> import psycopg2
> connection_params = "dbname='%s' user='%s' password='%s'" %
> tuple(sys.argv[1:])
> conn = psycopg2.connect(connection_params)
> cur = conn.cursor()
> cur.execute('SELECT * FROM version;')
> print '\n'.join(x[-1] for x in cur.fetchall())
>
>
> (Of course, buggy.py is pretty useless; I reduced the original,
> more useful, script to this to help me debug it.)
>
> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.  (This second script
> is one I wrote as part of a little Python tutorial I put together
> months ago, and is not much more of a script than hello_world.py;
> it's baby-steps for the absolute beginner.  But apparently, it has
> a killer name!  I had completely forgotten about it.)
>
> Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
> one-off scripts like the two of them.  I'll call this directory
> myscripts in what follows.
>
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
> mayhem*.
>
> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
> the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
> for me.)
>
> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
> and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
> not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
> of a future release.
>
> What else can one do?  Let's see, one should put every script in its
> own directory, thereby containing the damage.
>
> Anything else?
>
> Any suggestion would be appreciated.
>
> TIA!
>
> ~k
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb  1 21:56:34 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:56:34 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <87bpg8ny59.fsf@castleamber.com>

Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com> writes:

> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:35:57 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>
>>> If it was common-place to use Curried functions and partial application in
>>> Python, you'd probably prefer "f a b c" to "f(a)(b)(c)" as well.
>> 
>> That's just the point. It isn't common to play with curried functions
>> or monads or anything like that in computer science today. Yes,
>> Haskell exists, and is a great experiment in how such a language could
>> actually work. But at the same time, you have to have a brain the size
>> of the titanic to contain all the little details about the language
>> before you could write any large-scale application.
>
> No, not really. Haskell (and previously ML) are often used as introductory
> languages in Comp.Sci. courses (at least in the UK).

At least in the early 90's this was also the case in the Netherlands, at
the University of Utrecht. We got Miranda/Gofer, and in a different,
more advanced course Linda (Miranda for parallel machines). Also the
inner workings of functional programming languages was a course. (Can't
recall the name of the book that was used, but it was quite good IMO).

I want to start (re)learning Haskell later this year, because I liked
Miranda/Gofer a lot back then.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 21:57:27 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:57:27 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002011857h6e60a28ajd3a6f0c4516fe286@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:34 PM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:
> I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.
<snip>
> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py. ?(This second script
> is one I wrote as part of a little Python tutorial I put together
> months ago, and is not much more of a script than hello_world.py;
> it's baby-steps for the absolute beginner. ?But apparently, it has
> a killer name! ?I had completely forgotten about it.)
>
> Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
> one-off scripts like the two of them. ?I'll call this directory
> myscripts in what follows.
>
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
> mayhem*.
>
> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
> the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
> for me.)
>
> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
> and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
> not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
> of a future release.
>
> What else can one do? ?Let's see, one should put every script in its
> own directory, thereby containing the damage.
>
> Anything else?
>
> Any suggestion would be appreciated.

I think absolute imports avoid this problem:

from __future__ import absolute_import

For details, see PEP 328:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb  1 22:09:48 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:09:48 +0000
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes?
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.03.07.12.172000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:57:31 +0100, Robert wrote:

> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element 
> tree, I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document 
> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format 
> of the original HTML code.
> makes it rather unreadable.
> 
> is there an existing HTML parser which supports tracking/writing 
> back particular changes in a cautious way by just making local 
> changes? or a least tracks the tag start/end positions in the file?

HTMLParser, sgmllib.SGMLParser and htmllib.HTMLParser all allow you to
retrieve the literal text of a start tag (but not an end tag).
Unfortunately, they're only tokenisers, not parsers, so you'll need to
handle minimisation yourself.



From roy at panix.com  Mon Feb  1 22:15:32 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:15:32 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>

In article <hk82uv$8kn$1 at reader1.panix.com>, kj <no.email at please.post> 
wrote:

> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.
> [...]
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
> mayhem*.

I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.  The general 
pattern is:

1) You have something which refers to a resource by name.

2) There is a sequence of places which are searched for this name.

3) The search finds the wrong one because another resource by the same name 
appears earlier in the search path.

I've gotten bitten like this by shells finding the wrong executable (in 
$PATH).  By dynamic loaders finding the wrong library (in 
$LD_LIBRARY_PATH).  By C compilers finding the wrong #include file.  And so 
on.  This is just Python's import finding the wrong module in your 
$PYTHON_PATH.

The solution is the same in all cases.  You either have to refer to 
resources by some absolute name, or you need to make sure you set up your 
search paths correctly and know what's in them.  In your case, one possible 
solution be to make sure "." (or "") isn't in sys.path (although that might 
cause other issues).


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 22:28:55 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Feb 2010 03:28:55 GMT
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:34:07 +0000, kj wrote:

> I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.
> 
> An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines long,
> and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was quickly
> dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to my screen (aka
> gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my terminal *royally*. 
> Here's buggy.py:
[...]
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to import
> some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends up importing
> the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute mayhem*.


There is no module numbers in the standard library, at least not in 2.5. 

>>> import numbers
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named numbers

It must be specific to psycopg2.

I would think this is a problem with psycopg2 -- it sounds like it should 
be written as a package, but instead is written as a bunch of loose 
modules. I could be wrong of course, but if it is just a collection of 
modules, I'd definitely call that a poor design decision, if not a bug.


> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and the
> fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement for
> me.)

No, it's a wart. There's no doubt it bites people occasionally, but I've 
been programming in Python for about ten years and I've never been bitten 
by this yet. I'm sure it will happen some day, but not yet.

In this case, the severity of the bug (megabytes of binary crud to the 
screen) is not related to the cause of the bug (shadowing a module).

As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without 
breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0 
was missed. Oh well, life goes on.


> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files, and
> *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does not suddenly
> pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory of a future
> release.

Unfortunately, Python makes no guarantee that there won't be some clash 
between modules. You can minimize the risks by using packages, e.g. given 
a package spam containing modules a, b, c, and d, if you refer to spam.a 
etc. then you can't clash with modules a, b, c, d, but only spam. So 
you've cut your risk profile from five potential clashes to only one.

Also, generally most module clashes are far more obvious. If you do this:

import module
x = module.y

and module is shadowed by something else, you're *much* more likely to 
get an AttributeError than megabytes of crud to the screen.

I'm sorry that you got bitten so hard by this, but in practice it's 
uncommon, and relatively mild when it happens.


> What else can one do?  Let's see, one should put every script in its own
> directory, thereby containing the damage.

That's probably a bit extreme, but your situation:

"Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
one-off scripts like the two of them."

is far too chaotic for my liking. You don't need to go to the extreme of 
a separate directory for each file, but you can certainly tidy things up 
a bit. For example, anything that's obsolete should be moved out of the 
way where it can't be accidentally executed or imported.




-- 
Steven


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Feb  1 22:33:10 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:33:10 -0600
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B679CF6.1060607@tim.thechases.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.

Given the comprehensive nature of the batteries-included in 
Python, it's not as hard to accidentally shadow a built-in, 
unknown to you, but yet that is imported by a module you are 
using.  The classic that's stung me enough times (and many others 
on c.l.p and other forums, as a quick google evidences) such that 
I *finally* remember:

   bash$ touch email.py
   bash$ python
   ...
   >>> import smtplib
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
     File "/usr/lib/python2.5/smtplib.py", line 46, in <module>
       import email.Utils
   ImportError: No module named Utils

Using "email.py" is an innocuous name for a script/module you 
might want to do emailish things, and it's likely you'll use 
smtplib in the same code...and kablooie, things blow up even if 
your code doesn't reference or directly use the built-in email.py.

Yes, as Chris mentions, PEP-328 absolute vs. relative imports 
should help ameliorate the problem, but it's not yet commonly 
used (unless you're using Py3, it's only at the request of a 
__future__ import in 2.5+).

-tkc






From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 22:35:47 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Feb 2010 03:35:47 GMT
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
References: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.1766.1265073607.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.03.35.46@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:19:43 -0300, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:05:16 -0300, Hermann Lauer
> <Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> escribi?:
> 
>> while trying to optimize some unpack operations with self compiling
>> code I wondered howto invoke the optimization in the exec statement.
>> Even starting with -O or -OO yields in Python 2.5.2 the same dis.dis
>> code, which
>> is appended below.
> 
> There is not much difference with -O or -OO; assert statements are
> removed, __debug__ is False, docstrings are not stored (in -OO). Code
> generation is basically the same.

Also code of the form:

if __debug__:
    whatever

is compiled away if __debug__ is false.



> In general, x+0 may execute arbitrary code, depending on the type of x.
> Only if you could determine that x will always be an integer, you could
> optimize +0 away. Python (the current version of CPython) does not
> perform such analysis; you may investigate psyco, Unladen Swallow,
> ShedSkin for such things.

Keep in mind that the peephole optimizer in CPython does constant 
folding: 1+1 compiles to 2. Older versions of Python, and other 
implementations, may not.

But as a general rule, Python does very little optimization at compile 
time. To a first approximation, "remove asserts" is all that it does.



-- 
Steven


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 22:41:21 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:41:21 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <4B679CF6.1060607@tim.thechases.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B679CF6.1060607@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002011941y6081fcabkd7f5d43b339f3781@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>>
>
> Given the comprehensive nature of the batteries-included in Python, it's
> not as hard to accidentally shadow a built-in, unknown to you, but yet that
> is imported by a module you are using.


I get that people run into this problem on occasion, but honestly-- its
*really* not very hard to avoid. If you're creating a module which feels..
generic. As if you may use that same name for a certain kinda topic in a
couple different programs-- chances are it /might/ be used as a generic
provider of support for that kinda topic in the standard library.

"email", "http", "url", anything with a generic .. smell. Assume it /is/ in
the stdlib until you demonstrate otherwise, if you aren't deeply familiar
with the stdlib.

And two seconds later, you can know: 'import numbers' will work. Can't use
that. Yeah, when a new version comes out, you may have to read What's New,
and see a new module, then rename something.

If you're going to use relative imports (and that's #2, I never do-- ever--
even before PEP328 existed), you just have to deal with the flatness of the
top-level namespace and how Python broadly claims the right to put darn near
anything in there.

Although they do google around a bit to try to gauge how likely it is to
clash, but still.

--S
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:01:11 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:01:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <012920a6-c9d7-4200-8b8a-160021dbf3bb@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:34?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
> one-off scripts like the two of them. ?I'll call this directory
> myscripts in what follows.

[snip]

> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?


Don't put hundreds of little one-off scripts in single directory.
Python can't save you from polluting your own namespace.

Don't choose such generic names for modules.  Keep in mind module
names are potentially globally visible and any sane advice you ever
heard about globals is to use descriptive names.  I instinctively use
adjectives, compound words, and abstract nouns for the names of all my
modules so as to be more descriptive, and to avoid name conflicts with
classes and variables.

Also learn to debug better.


Carl Banks


From cjblaine at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:04:56 2010
From: cjblaine at gmail.com (cjblaine)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:04:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
References: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1763.1265072455.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <303e1371-bc77-4cc8-bbbf-bddfd610fad9@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 8:00?pm, Christian Heimes <li... at cheimes.de> wrote:
> cjblaine wrote:
> > Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
> > install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?
>
> Python's distutils doesn't alter the library search path unless you tell
> it explicitly.
>
> > A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):
>
> > % python setup.py build
> > ....
> > gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
> > apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
> > %
>
> The Extension() class supports the rpath argument. Simply add
> rpath="/path/to/library/dir" and you are good.
>
> Christian

Thanks for the reply.

So, python setup.py build rpath="/whatever/lib" ?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:12:25 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:12:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 7:33?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>
> Given the comprehensive nature of the batteries-included in
> Python, it's not as hard to accidentally shadow a built-in,
> unknown to you, but yet that is imported by a module you are
> using. ?The classic that's stung me enough times (and many others
> on c.l.p and other forums, as a quick google evidences) such that
> I *finally* remember:
>
> ? ?bash$ touch email.py
> ? ?bash$ python
> ? ?...
> ? ?>>> import smtplib
> ? ?Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ? ?File "/usr/lib/python2.5/smtplib.py", line 46, in <module>
> ? ? ? ?import email.Utils
> ? ?ImportError: No module named Utils
>
> Using "email.py" is an innocuous name for a script/module you
> might want to do emailish things, and it's likely you'll use
> smtplib in the same code...and kablooie, things blow up even if
> your code doesn't reference or directly use the built-in email.py.


email.py is not an innocuous name, it's a generic name in a global
namespace, which is a Bad Thing.  Plus what does a script or module
called "email.py" actually do?  Send email?  Parse email?  "email" is
terrible name for a module and you deserve what you got for using it.

Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
library module of related functions, "email_handling.py".  Modules and
scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
names.


(**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
an "innocuous" name, It can.


Carl Banks


From cjblaine at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:35:37 2010
From: cjblaine at gmail.com (cjblaine)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:35:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
References: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1763.1265072455.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<303e1371-bc77-4cc8-bbbf-bddfd610fad9@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8167cbe0-d099-4a0b-804e-6e91817197ec@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 11:04?pm, cjblaine <cjbla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:00?pm, Christian Heimes <li... at cheimes.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > cjblaine wrote:
> > > Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
> > > install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?
>
> > Python's distutils doesn't alter the library search path unless you tell
> > it explicitly.
>
> > > A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):
>
> > > % python setup.py build
> > > ....
> > > gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
> > > apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
> > > %
>
> > The Extension() class supports the rpath argument. Simply add
> > rpath="/path/to/library/dir" and you are good.
>
> > Christian
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> So, python setup.py build rpath="/whatever/lib" ?

Replying to myself:

No.  Actually, Christian, it looks like it's runtime_library_dirs?

class Extension:
...
      runtime_library_dirs : [string]
        list of directories to search for C/C++ libraries at run time
        (for shared extensions, this is when the extension is loaded)

So, how does one inject that into, I assume, setup.cfg ?  Ideally it
could be done via the build command-line, but I don't see a way to do
that when browsing python setup.py build --help

( there is no setup.cfg provided in the PyGreSQL source tree, to )
( continue that example case                                     )


From gobladoome at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 00:26:57 2010
From: gobladoome at gmail.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:26:57 +1300
Subject: Problems embedding python 2.6 in C++
In-Reply-To: <op.u7g0tijgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <5089497e1002011321h5328ed68y4bfab055f627ba74@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7g0tijgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <5089497e1002012126h55f0611ct476eabb0ccf1bea1@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Gabriel,

I've managed to get it working and so far stable...

What wasn't working reliably:

mycppclass
   mycppclass::mycppclass()
       m_mypymodule = PyImport_Import(pModuleName)

  mycppclass::~ mycppclass()
      Py_XDECREF(m_mypymodule)

  mycppclass::callpy(funcname, args...)
      PyTuple_SetItem * args
      PyCallable_Check(func)
      PyObject_CallObject(func)

Current working version:

mycppclass
   mycppclass::mycppclass()
   {}

  mycppclass::~ mycppclass()
  {}

  mycppclass::callpy(funcname, args...)
      m_mypymodule = PyImport_Import(pModuleName)

      pyargs = PyTuple_SetItem * args
      PyCallable_Check(func)
      PyObject_CallObject(func,pyargs)

      Py_XDECREF(m_mypymodule)

So now the module is being imported each function call (luckily I don't have
to worry about performance)

I assume this means that the internal representation of the imported module
is being corrupted by something. I found another person with a similar issue
here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043306.html - that is
a long time ago but another multi-threaded app.

I'm happy to use the working method but I'd like to understand what is going
on a bit more. Can anyone shed any further light?

Regards,
Paul.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>
 wrote:

> En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:21:56 -0300, Paul <gobladoome at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
> I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 code to add embedded python
>> scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls
>> do
>> not work as expected.
>>
>> The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it
>> was
>> GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
>> PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
>> (PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)
>>
>> Here's the error I'm getting:
>>
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
>> get_giftcard_purchase_value
>>    details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
>>  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
>> extract_transaction_details_section
>>    for line in base_details:
>> TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found
>>
>> base_details is a list of strings (I can just define it like
>> 'base_details=["1","2","3"...]' on the line previous) and the code runs
>> fine
>> when run from standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine
>> from
>> the embedded app.
>> I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
>> after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
>> constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor
>>
>
> Usually, errors in reference count handling prevent objects from being
> destroyed (a memory leak) or generate a GPF when accessing an now-inexistent
> object. In principle I'd look elsewhere.
>
>
> Anyone else had issues of this kind?
>>
>
> Hard to tell without more info. base_details is built in C++ code? Is it
> actually a list, or a subclass defined by you?
> A common error is to forget to check *every* API function call for errors,
> so errors get unnoticed for a while but are reported on the next check,
> which may happen in an entirely unrelated function.
>
>
> My next try will be to use
>> sub-interpreters per thread.
>>
>
> I would not do that - I'd try to *simplify* the code to test, not make it
> more complicated.
> Does it work in a single-threaded application?
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 00:47:36 2010
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:47:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <38aead35-0662-4e05-877a-e924b76ad4e4@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Wanting the same methods to be attached to different classes often is
a code smell (perhaps it is not your case and then use setattr as
others said). Perhaps you can just leave such methods outside any
class. I would suggest you to use a testing framework not based on
inheritance (i.e. use nose or py.test). Perhaps your problem can be
solved with generative tests.


From rolf.oltmans at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 00:55:16 2010
From: rolf.oltmans at gmail.com (Oltmans)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:55:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1750.1265058965.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9208c5ea-f36d-4a1c-969c-283ffb049491@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 2:14?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
> Should not tee be subclassing test, not unittest.TestCase?
>

Thank you, Steve. This worked, but I've not clue why? Can you please
enlighten me why sub-classing 'test' made it happen? Please. Thanks
again.
> regards
> ?Steve
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS: ? ? ? ?http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From gjango.py at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 01:05:38 2010
From: gjango.py at gmail.com (guptha)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:05:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to use python-mms to send mms
Message-ID: <eb971016-b51e-4628-93f7-52f8c5b1d60b@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi group,
After hours of googling i found out that we can use python-mms to send
mms  from our PC connected with GSM cell phone/Modem.
I could appreciate if some one guide me with a example of sending an
mms using python-mms.
I am using Ubuntu9.10 .I am trying to send a ring tone via MMS.

Thanks
Ganesh Guptha


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  2 01:06:32 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:06:32 -0500
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
In-Reply-To: <9208c5ea-f36d-4a1c-969c-283ffb049491@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>	<6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1750.1265058965.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9208c5ea-f36d-4a1c-969c-283ffb049491@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk8fd8$kq1$1@ger.gmane.org>

Oltmans wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2:14 am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Should not tee be subclassing test, not unittest.TestCase?
>>
> 
> Thank you, Steve. This worked, but I've not clue why? Can you please
> enlighten me why sub-classing 'test' made it happen? Please. Thanks
> again.

unittest.TestCase doesn't have any test* methods (methods whose names
begin with "test"). So neither do your subclasses.

When you subclass test, however, test has everything that
unittest.TestCase does (because it subclasses unittest.TestCase) and it
also has three test* methods. So your subclass of test also has those
three methods as well.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From purui.wang at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 01:26:52 2010
From: purui.wang at gmail.com (purui)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:26:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: search engine for python source code
Message-ID: <717f2d32-df15-4acc-bc39-e9532d23a4b2@u18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

I developed a source code search engine for python (http://
nullege.com). It helps you find samples from open source projects.
Unlike other code search engines, it really understands python syntax
and generates more relative results.
I'm working on expend the source code collection now. Give it a try if
google can't find a sample for you.

- Purui


From casevh at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 01:45:56 2010
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:45:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
Message-ID: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org>

Everyone,

I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:


http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/


In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
features in this release:


- Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
- Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
- Performance improvements by improved caching.
- Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
- Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
- Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
  longer recognized.

Changes since 1.11rc1:
- Recognizes GMP 5.
- Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).


Comments on provided binaries


The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.


Please report any issues!


casevh




From masklinn at masklinn.net  Tue Feb  2 02:29:38 2010
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:29:38 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
Message-ID: <DACA8433-5167-4627-AA91-9D8BF0787218@masklinn.net>

When trying to load the following config file, I get an error ``ConfigParser.NoOptionError: No option 'handlers' in section: 'logger_0'`` (in both Python 2.6.4 and  Python 3.1.1 on OSX, obviously ConfigParser is spelled configparser in 3.1):

    [loggers]
    keys=root,0
    [handlers]
    keys=console
    [formatters]
    keys=simple
    [logger_root]
    handlers=console
    [logger_0]
    level=DEBUG
    qualname=0
    [handler_console]
    class=StreamHandler
    formatter=simple
    args=()
    [formatter_simple]
    format=%(asctime)s:%(levelname)-8s:%(name)s::%(message)s

the goal is simply to have a logging level different on ``0`` than it is on ``root``, but to get it I have to include a handler on ``0`` and stop propagation (or messages are displayed on both root and 0).

Do note that this behavior (of mandating handlers) does *not* happen when loggers are configured programmatically.

Should this be considered a bug? Worthy of opening a request on the tracker?

And while I'm at it, a few other oddities/annoyances I noticed in logging:

* have to specify the `root` logger in loggers/keys, even though it's mandatory to configure the root logger, or I get the following error::

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "test.py", line 6, in <module>
        logging.config.fileConfig('logging.conf')
      File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/logging/config.py", line 82, in fileConfig
        _install_loggers(cp, handlers, disable_existing_loggers)
      File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/logging/config.py", line 183, in _install_loggers
        llist.remove("root")
    ValueError: list.remove(x): x not in list

* the ``args`` option is required when defining a handler, even in the example above where the handler doesn't take any argument (mandatory ones, anyway)

* Logger.log() doesn't take level names, only numerical levels, even after having called ``addLevelName``. This makes logging with custom levels much less clear as one has to write something along the lines of ``logging.log(100, 'Houston, we have a problem')`` instead of the clearer ``logging.log('PANTS_ON_FIRE', 'Houston, we have a problem')``. Note that since the introduction of _checkLevel fixing that is trivial:

diff -r dafc54104884 Lib/logging/__init__.py
--- a/Lib/logging/__init__.py	Sun Jan 31 14:17:25 2010 +0100
+++ b/Lib/logging/__init__.py	Mon Feb 01 22:21:03 2010 +0100
@@ -1146,13 +1146,14 @@
 
         logger.log(level, "We have a %s", "mysterious problem", exc_info=1)
         """
-        if not isinstance(level, int):
+        try:
+            rv = _checkLevel(level)
+        except (TypeError, ValueError):
             if raiseExceptions:
-                raise TypeError("level must be an integer")
-            else:
-                return
-        if self.isEnabledFor(level):
-            self._log(level, msg, args, **kwargs)
+                raise
+
+        if self.isEnabledFor(rv):
+            self._log(rv, msg, args, **kwargs)
 
     def findCaller(self):
         """



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Feb  2 02:35:13 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:35:13 +0100
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1757.1265064016.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1757.1265064016.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b67d5b1$0$6564$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Astan Chee, 01.02.2010 23:34:
> I have xml files that I want to convert to a hash/dict and then further
> placed in a wx CustomTreeCtrl based on the structure. The problem I am
> having now is that the XML file is very unusual and there aren't any
> unique identifiers to be put in a dict and because there are no unique
> variables, finding the value of it from a CustromTreeCtrl is abit tricky.
> I would appreciate any help or links to projects similar to this.

What part of the structure and what information are you interested in? That
will determine the key that you should use. Maybe storing more than one
field as key is an option.

Stefan


> The XML file looks something like this:
> <doc>
> <rm:statsDoc xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
>    <stats name="position1" description="Calculation statistics"
> kind="position">
>    <stats name="time" description="Timing summary" kind="section">
>        <string name="timersNote" description="Note:">This is the note on
> calculation times</string>
>        <stats name="timers" kind="timers">
> 
>        <timer name="totaltime" description="Total time">
>            <elapsed>609.081574</elapsed>
>            <user>2531.972081</user>
>            <system>65.119100</system>
>        </timer>
>        <timer name="partialTimer" description="Gravitational Displacement">
>            <elapsed>1772.011230</elapsed>
>        </timer>
>        <stats name="subTimers" description="All non-phased time"
> kind="timers">
>            <timer name="subATimer" description="Phase time A">
>            <elapsed>72.418861</elapsed>
>            </timer>
> 
>            <timer name="subBTimer" description="Phase time B">
>            <elapsed>28.285192</elapsed>
>            </timer>
>            <timer name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
>            <elapsed>0.000</elapsed>
>            </timer>
>        </stats>
>        <timer name="endTime" description="End">
>            <elapsed>607.432373</elapsed>
>        </timer>
>        </stats>
>    </stats>
>    <stats name="space" description="Space usage summary" kind="section">
>        <stats name="systemSpace" description="System Space">
>        <memory name="heapSpace" description="Total Space">
>            <peak>4833280000</peak>
> 
>            <current>4833280000</current>
>        </memory>
>        <memory name="spaceResidentSize" description="Space resident size">
>            <peak>4182777856</peak>
>            <current>4182777856</current>
>        </memory>
>        <int name="pageMem">1</int>
> 
>        <int name="memReclaims">1943498</int>
>        <int name="memSwaps">0</int>
>        </stats>
>        <stats name="subsystems" kind="memstats">
>        <memory name="geoSpace" description="Geo-Space">
>            <peak>1640100156</peak>
>            <current>411307840</current>
>        </memory>
>        <memory name="gridSpace" description="Grid-Space">
>            <peak>709596712</peak>
>            <current>1406752</current>
>        </memory>
>        <memory name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
>            <peak>737720720</peak>
>            <current>0</current>
>        </memory>
>                <memory name="endTime" description="End">
>            <peak>607.432373</peak>
>        </memory>
>        </stats>
>            <memory name="subsystemSpace" description="Subsystem space
> total">
>        <peak>5164184694</peak>
>        <current>2054715622</current>
>        </memory>
> 
>    </stats>
>    </stats>
> </rm:statsDoc>
> </doc>
> 


From ashish.vyas at motorola.com  Tue Feb  2 02:48:10 2010
From: ashish.vyas at motorola.com (VYAS ASHISH M-NTB837)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:48:10 +0800
Subject: Python packet capture utility
In-Reply-To: <717f2d32-df15-4acc-bc39-e9532d23a4b2@u18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7C57DB58C81FB64CA979EC6C4DB73E7A03F04217@ZMY16EXM67.ds.mot.com>

 
Dear All

I want to capture tcp packets in python. I need to do this on both
Windows and Linux on python3.1

I came across the following:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycap/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pylibpcap/
http://code.google.com/p/pypcap/
http://oss.coresecurity.com/projects/pcapy.html


I am not able to evaluate on my own. Which one should I pick up?
Priority is python3.1 support on both windows and Linux. I don't have to
do many/complex operations. If it is not so programmer friendly I am OK.

Also let me know if 2to3 would help here if there is not python3
support.

Regards
Ashish


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb  2 03:18:45 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:18:45 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.48.19.187000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <7xr5p4yrru.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com> writes:
> A better metric is whether using N features has O(N) complexity, or O(N^2)
> (where you have to understand how each feature relates to each other
> feature) or even O(2^N) (where you have to understand every possible
> combination of interactions).

M. Felleisen wrote a paper trying to formalize some metric on the
expressive power of programming languages.  I skimmed through it for
about a minute and wasn't convinced, but it apparently has gathered some
respect.  I want to read it more carefully sometime:

  http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.51.4656


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  2 03:38:07 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:38:07 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002020038u139f86eft66478e8f56a96469@mail.gmail.com>

>>> Personally, I think it is a terribly idea to keep the source file and
>>> byte code file in such radically different places. They should be kept
>>> together. What you call "clutter" I call having the files that belong
>>> together kept together.
>>
>> I see why you think so, it's reasonable, however there is compelling
>> argument, I think, for the opposite view: namely to keep things
>> separate. An average developer definitely wants easy access to .py
>> files. However I see no good reason for having access to .pyc files. I
>> for one have never inspected a .pyc file. Why would you want to have a
>> .pyc file at hand?
>
> If you don't care about access to .pyc files, why do you care where they
> are? If they are in a subdirectory module.pyr, then shrug and ignore the
> subdirectory.
>
> If you (generic you) are one of those developers who don't care
> about .pyc files, then when you are browsing your source directory and
> see this:
>
>
> module.py
> module.pyc
>
> you just ignore the .pyc file. Or delete it, and Python will re-create it
> as needed. So if you see
>
> module.pyr/
>
> just ignore that as well.
>
>
>
>> If we don't really want to have .pyc files in convenient locations
>> because we (almost) never want to access them really, then I'd say it's
>> a good idea to keep them totally separate and so make don't get in the
>> way.
>
> I like seeing them in the same place as the source file, because when I
> start developing a module, I often end up renaming it multiple times
> before it settles on a final name. When I rename or move it, I delete
> the .pyc file, and that ensures that if I miss changing an import, and
> try to import the old name, it will fail.
>
> By hiding the .pyc file elsewhere, it is easy to miss deleting one, and
> then the import won't fail, it will succeed, but use the old, obsolete
> byte code.


Okay, I see your point but I think your argument about importing shows
that python is doing something suboptimal because I have to worry
about .pyc files. Ideally, I only would need to worry about python
source files. There is now a chance to 'fix' (quotation marks because
maybe there is nothing to fix, according to some) this issue and make
all pyc files go away and having python magically doing the right
thing. A central pyc repository would be something I was thinking
about, but I admit it's a half baked or not even that, probably
quarter baked idea.

Cheers,
Daniel

-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 04:20:59 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 01:20:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <05028e22-abed-41cc-a60a-cdc27f803a3a@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 3:28?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> There is no module numbers in the standard library, at least not in 2.5.

It's new in 2.6 (and 3.0, I think;  it's there in 3.1, anyway).  It
provides abstract base classes for numeric types;  see the fractions
module source for some of the ways it can be used.  Here are the docs:

http://docs.python.org/library/numbers.html

and also PEP 3141, on which it's based:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3141/

--
Mark


From waku at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Feb  2 05:21:02 2010
From: waku at idi.ntnu.no (waku)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:21:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 16:58:34 +0000, tanix wrote:

[...]

> > The very idea of using a number of blanks to identify your block level
> > is as insane as it gets.
>
> Not at all. People do it all the time. The very idea of expecting people
> to count nested braces to identify block level is what is crazy, which is
> why in languages with braces people still indent the blocks.

for reading written code, it's surely helpful to have the code
indented, though for *human* reading, the count of blanks seems rather
inessential, as long as intended difference in indents is more
pronounced than incidental difference between same-level lines.

for writing new code, it's not necessarily that helpful to be *forced*
to keep with strict indenting rules.  in early development phases,
code is often experimental, and parts of it may need to be blocked or
unblocked as the codebase grows, and for experimentation, the need to
carefully and consistently indent and de-indent large chunks of code
can easily lead to a mess (blame it on the programmer, not the
language, but still).  yes, there are editors that help you indent
chunks of code, but see below.

there are languages where indentation can be either enforced and allow
one to omit some syntactic nuissance like braces or begin-end clauses,
or made optional, requiring other syntactic means for delimiting
blocks etc.  (consider f# with its #light declaration, for example.)

[...]

> In any case, if your IDE mixes tabs and spaces, your IDE is broken and
> you should fix your tools rather than blame the language.

as long as you are limited to your own code, sure.  but if many work
on the same bit, and use different editors and indentation policies,
blanks-tabs indentation issues are not unlikely.  you can have blanks
converted to tabs and vice versa automatically, but that's clearly a
nuisance.


>
>
> > Braces is the most reliable way to identify blocks.
>
> Nonsense. For the compiler, both are equally reliable, and for the human
> reader, indents beat braces easily.

if blanks and tabs are mixed together as indentation, the setting of
your ide can easily mess up the indentation, making the structure
unclear.  in some editors, you can have braces highlighted, so that
it's even easier to see where a block ends or starts.  and more
advanced editors help one see the structure of the code, whereby both
indentation and braces are made less important for the reader.

but yes, indentation surely helps in reading the code.

>
>
> > Sane compilers ignore blanks altogether.
>
> Really? So a "sane compiler" sees no difference between:
>
> for x in mylist:
>
> and
>
> forxinmylist:
>
>
> I'm glad I don't have to program using a compiler you consider "sane".

the point here was, i think, that blanks may have no syntactic
meaning, though they can still be essential at the lexical level.
your example targeted the lexical level, and that's rather irrelevant
to the problem of syntactically meaningful indentation discussed here.

vQ


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  2 05:49:04 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:49:04 +0100
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B680320.1050803@sequans.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Feb 1, 7:33 pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>   
>> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>>     
>>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>>>       
>> Given the comprehensive nature of the batteries-included in
>> Python, it's not as hard to accidentally shadow a built-in,
>> unknown to you, but yet that is imported by a module you are
>> using.  The classic that's stung me enough times (and many others
>> on c.l.p and other forums, as a quick google evidences) such that
>> I *finally* remember:
>>
>>    bash$ touch email.py
>>    bash$ python
>>    ...
>>    >>> import smtplib
>>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>>      File "/usr/lib/python2.5/smtplib.py", line 46, in <module>
>>        import email.Utils
>>    ImportError: No module named Utils
>>
>> Using "email.py" is an innocuous name for a script/module you
>> might want to do emailish things, and it's likely you'll use
>> smtplib in the same code...and kablooie, things blow up even if
>> your code doesn't reference or directly use the built-in email.py.
>>     
>
>
> email.py is not an innocuous name, it's a generic name in a global
> namespace, which is a Bad Thing.  Plus what does a script or module
> called "email.py" actually do?  Send email?  Parse email?  "email" is
> terrible name for a module and you deserve what you got for using it.
>
> Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
> library module of related functions, "email_handling.py".  Modules and
> scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
> names.
>
>
> (**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
> an "innocuous" name, It can.
>
>
> Carl Banks
>   
That does not solve anything, if the smtplib follows your advice, then 
you'll be shadowing its send_email module.
The only way to avoid collision would be to name your module 
__PDSFLSDF_send_email__13221sdfsdf__.py

That way, the probabilty you'd shadow one package hidden module is below 
the probability that Misses Hilton ever says something relevant.
However nobody wants to use such names.

Stephen gave good advices in this thread that helps avoiding this issue.

JM



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 06:20:34 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:20:34 +0100
Subject: unable to catch this exception
Message-ID: <hk91ob$hql$1@ger.gmane.org>


Exception in thread Thread-9 (most likely raised during interpreter 
shutdown):
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/threading.py", line 522, in 
__bootstrap_inner
   File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 875, in run
   File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 617, in ssh_connect
<type 'exceptions.AttributeError'>: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 
'BadAuthenticationType'


This happens on interpreter shutdown, even though I do try to catch the 
AttributeError exception:

try:
     fake = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
     try:
         self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username, 
key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
         loginsuccess = True
     except paramiko.BadAuthenticationType, e: # this is line 617
         self.conerror = str(e)
     except paramiko.SSHException, e:
         self.conerror = str(e)
     except socket.timeout, e:
         self.conerror = str(e)
     except socket.error, e:
         self.conerror = str(e)
except AttributeError:
     # this happens on interpreter shutdown
     self.conerror = 'shutdown'


It's clear what happens: paramiko gets its attributes cleared or the 
module perhaps gets unloaded and as result "paramiko" label leads to 
None, which obviously has no attribute BadAuthenticationType.

However, even though this is surrounded by try .. except AttributeError 
block, it evidently isn't catch. How to catch that exception? Or at 
least preven displaying this message?

Regards,
mk



From louis.coilliot at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 06:30:44 2010
From: louis.coilliot at gmail.com (lofic)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 03:30:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: threading+popen2 hang
Message-ID: <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I've seen many messages and bug reports on popen2 about pipes, buffer
size problems, sub-processes not properly closed, race conditions,
popen2 not being thread safe... But I still can't figure what applies
to my case.

This piece of code:

#!/usr/bin/python
import threading
import popen2

class MyThread ( threading.Thread ):
   def run ( self ):
        #popenChild = popen2.Popen3("cat /etc/passwd")
        #popenChild = popen2.Popen3("/usr/bin/iostat -V")
        popenChild = popen2.Popen3("/usr/bin/iostat -k -x 1 2")
        popenChild.wait()
        print 'Bye'

MyThread().start()


Works fine on RHEL5/python 2.4.3
Hangs on RHEL4/python 2.3.4

I presume it hangs on wait().

It does not hang with:
popenChild = popen2.Popen3("/usr/bin/iostat -V") # short output
popenChild = popen2.Popen3("cat /etc/passwd") # long output

It does not hang outside of a thread:
#!/usr/bin/python
import popen2
popenChild = popen2.Popen3("/usr/bin/iostat -k -x 1 2")
#print popenChild.fromchild.readlines()
popenChild.wait()
print 'Bye'


Could someone explain this to me ?

Thanks in advance.

Louis Coilliot




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  2 07:26:32 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:26:32 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <DACA8433-5167-4627-AA91-9D8BF0787218@masklinn.net>
References: <DACA8433-5167-4627-AA91-9D8BF0787218@masklinn.net>
Message-ID: <4B6819F8.8080004@sequans.com>

Masklinn wrote:
> When trying to load the following config file, I get an error ``ConfigParser.NoOptionError: No option 'handlers' in section: 'logger_0'`` (in both Python 2.6.4 and  Python 3.1.1 on OSX, obviously ConfigParser is spelled configparser in 3.1):
>
>     [loggers]
>     keys=root,0
>     [handlers]
>     keys=console
>     [formatters]
>     keys=simple
>     [logger_root]
>     handlers=console
>     [logger_0]
>     level=DEBUG
>     qualname=0
>     [handler_console]
>     class=StreamHandler
>     formatter=simple
>     args=()
>     [formatter_simple]
>     format=%(asctime)s:%(levelname)-8s:%(name)s::%(message)s
>
> the goal is simply to have a logging level different on ``0`` than it is on ``root``, but to get it I have to include a handler on ``0`` and stop propagation (or messages are displayed on both root and 0).
>
> Do note that this behavior (of mandating handlers) does *not* happen when loggers are configured programmatically.
>
> Should this be considered a bug? Worthy of opening a request on the tracker?
>
> And while I'm at it, a few other oddities/annoyances I noticed in logging:
>
> * have to specify the `root` logger in loggers/keys, even though it's mandatory to configure the root logger, or I get the following error::
>
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "test.py", line 6, in <module>
>         logging.config.fileConfig('logging.conf')
>       File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/logging/config.py", line 82, in fileConfig
>         _install_loggers(cp, handlers, disable_existing_loggers)
>       File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/logging/config.py", line 183, in _install_loggers
>         llist.remove("root")
>     ValueError: list.remove(x): x not in list
>
> * the ``args`` option is required when defining a handler, even in the example above where the handler doesn't take any argument (mandatory ones, anyway)
>
> * Logger.log() doesn't take level names, only numerical levels, even after having called ``addLevelName``. This makes logging with custom levels much less clear as one has to write something along the lines of ``logging.log(100, 'Houston, we have a problem')`` instead of the clearer ``logging.log('PANTS_ON_FIRE', 'Houston, we have a problem')``. Note that since the introduction of _checkLevel fixing that is trivial:
>
>   
To add a custom level, I would proceed that way:

logging.ALERT = 45
logging.addLevelName(logging.ALERT, 'ALERT !!')
logging.getLogger().log(logging.ALERT, 'test')

Passing a string to the log method as you did is incorrect.


Regarding your first point, I guess it's anti pattern. One way to do it:
1/ Configure the root logger with the lowest value 0, so the root logger 
does not filter any level.
2/ Configure each of your logger with the correct level

That way you can configure your '0' logger as you (badly :o)) named it 
with one level, and configure a potential '1' logger with another level. 
Don't bother with propagation. That way you won't need to duplicate your 
handlers on every logger.

JM


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb  2 07:32:08 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:32:08 -0800
Subject: unable to catch this exception
In-Reply-To: <hk91ob$hql$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hk91ob$hql$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002020432u718b018fj9abef3c1534a8f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:20 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Exception in thread Thread-9 (most likely raised during interpreter
> shutdown):
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/threading.py", line 522, in
> __bootstrap_inner
> ?File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 875, in run
> ?File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 617, in ssh_connect
> <type 'exceptions.AttributeError'>: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
> 'BadAuthenticationType'
>
>
> This happens on interpreter shutdown, even though I do try to catch the
> AttributeError exception:
>
> try:
> ? ?fake = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username,
> key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
> ? ? ? ?loginsuccess = True
> ? ?except paramiko.BadAuthenticationType, e: # this is line 617
> ? ? ? ?self.conerror = str(e)
> ? ?except paramiko.SSHException, e:
> ? ? ? ?self.conerror = str(e)
> ? ?except socket.timeout, e:
> ? ? ? ?self.conerror = str(e)
> ? ?except socket.error, e:
> ? ? ? ?self.conerror = str(e)
> except AttributeError:
> ? ?# this happens on interpreter shutdown
> ? ?self.conerror = 'shutdown'
>
>
> It's clear what happens: paramiko gets its attributes cleared or the module
> perhaps gets unloaded and as result "paramiko" label leads to None, which
> obviously has no attribute BadAuthenticationType.
>
> However, even though this is surrounded by try .. except AttributeError
> block, it evidently isn't catch. How to catch that exception? Or at least
> preven displaying this message?

Let's see if psychic debugging works...at 4 am...
Pure conjecture: Do you have something like the following elsewhere in
your code?:

try:
    #code
except SomeError, AttributeError:
    #code

For why this causes problems, consider:

except SomeError, e:
vs.
except SomeError, SomeOtherError:

Example:
try:
    raise IndexError
except IndexError, IOError:
    pass
print repr(IOError) #==> IndexError()

Hence, in your case, `AttributeError` may no longer refer to
AttributeError. You can check this by adding a `print
repr(AttributeError)` at the right place in your code.
I further conjecture that pyflakes/pychecker/etc. might issue a
warning about the offending bit of code.


"Third Option" solution: Since you take the same action no matter the
exception's type, have you considered simplifying your code to:

fake = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
try:
    self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username,
key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
    loginsuccess = True
except Exception, e:
    self.conerror = str(e)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeAThirdOption
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 08:24:46 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:24:46 +0100
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
Message-ID: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello,

Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would 
contain string for editing and would not just be empty?

I googled but found nothing.

Regards,
mk



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb  2 08:29:10 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 05:29:10 -0800
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
In-Reply-To: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002020529x2f97d03fxe4b1dc79539f2aaa@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:24 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?
>
> I googled but found nothing.

Er...: http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html
It's the third hit for "python readline".

Actually reading the page, sounds like you want readline.insert_text()
specifically.

Cheers,
Chris
--
Satan, thy name is MMW
http://blog.rebertia.com


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Feb  2 09:05:02 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:05:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B675FE2.4090404@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <hk9bee$j4f$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:12:34 +0100, Martin v. Loewis a ?crit?:
>> recv_into() should simply be fixed to use the new buffer API, as it
>> does in 3.x.
> 
> I don't think that's the full solution. The array module should also
> implement the new buffer API, so that it would also fail with the old
> recv_into.

There was a patch for this in http://bugs.python.org/issue6071 , but the 
bug was closed when hashlib was "fixed".




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Feb  2 09:12:59 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:12:59 +0100
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
References: <mailman.1786.1265117058.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hk9bsn$ru2$00$1@news.t-online.com>

mk wrote:

> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-June/1209309.html

Peter


From no.email at please.post  Tue Feb  2 09:13:19 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:13:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>



Let me preface everything by thanking you and all those who
replied for their comments.

I have only one follow-up question (or rather, set of related
questions) that I'm very keen about, plus a bit of a vent at the
end.

In <pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

>As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without 
>breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0 
>was missed.

This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
the deliberations I'm looking for.)

~k

[NB: as I said before, what follows begins to slide into a vent,
and is quite unimportant; I've left it, for whatever grain of truth
it may contain, as an grossly overgrown PS; feel free to ignore
it, I'm *by far* most interested in the question stated in the
paragraph right above, because it will give me, I hope, a better
sense of where the biggest obstacles to fixing this problem lie.]

P.S. Yes, I see the backwards-compatibility problem, but that's
what rolling out a whole new versions is good for; it's a bit of
a fresh start.  I remember hearing GvR's Google Talk on the coming
Python 3, which was still in the works then, and being struck by
the sheer *modesty* of the proposed changes (while the developers
of the mythical Perl6 seemed to be on a quest for transcendence to
a Higher Plane of Programming, as they still are).  In particular
the business with print -> print() seemed truly bizarre to me: this
is a change that will break a *huge* volume of code, and yet,
judging by the rationale given for it, the change solves what are,
IMHO, a relatively minor annoyances.  Python's old print statement
is, I think, at most a tiny little zit invisible to all but those
obsessed with absolute perfection.  And I can't imagine that whatever
would be required to fix Python's import system could break more
code than redefining the rules for a workhorse like print.

In contrast, the Python import problem is a ticking bomb potentially
affecting all code that imports other modules.  All that needs to
happen is that, in a future release of Python, some new standard
module emerges (like numbers.py emerged in 2.6), and this module
is imported by some module your code imports.  Boom!  Note that it
was only coincidental that the bug I reported in this thread occurred
in a script I wrote recently.  I could have written both scripts
before 2.6 was released, and the new numbers.py along with it;
barring the uncanny clairvoyance of some responders, there would
have been, at the time, absolutely no plausible reason for not
naming one of the two scripts numbers.py.

To the argument that the import system can't be easily fixed because
it breaks existing code, one can reply that the *current* import
system already breaks existing code, as illustrated by the example
I've given in this thread: this could have easily been old pre-2.6
code that got broken just because Python decided to add numbers.py
to the distribution.  (Yes, Python can't guarantee that the names
of new standard modules won't clash with the names of existing
local modules, but this is true for Perl as well, and due to Perl's
module import scheme (and naming conventions), a scenario like the
one I presented in this thread would have been astronomically
improbable.  The Perl example shows that the design of the module
import scheme and naming conventions for standard modules can go
a long way to minimize the consequences of this unavoidable potential
for future name clashes.)




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 09:37:10 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:37:10 +0100
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
In-Reply-To: <hk9bsn$ru2$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.1786.1265117058.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk9bsn$ru2$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <hk9d8v$p2$1@ger.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:
> mk wrote:
> 
>> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
>> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-June/1209309.html
> 
> Peter

Thanks a lot! Just what I needed.

Regards,
mk




From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 09:47:30 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:47:30 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <hk7m6i$n4h$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<hk7m6i$n4h$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002020647q29506c30s46ac98accc6098ca@mail.gmail.com>

[snip]
>> 2. side effect of (maybe) leaking the iterator variable "value" into
>> the code following the loop (if the iterator is not empty).
>
> So? it is sometime useful.

Except that you can't guarantee that it will be set since the for loop
will not execute if the iterable is empty.

>>
>> I can take care of 2 by explicitly deleting the variable at the end:
>>
>> ? ?del value
>>
>> but I'd probably forget to do that sometimes.
>
> So? If having 'value' bound breaks your subsequent code, I consider it
> buggy.

Quite so.  I just like to eliminate the possibility up front.  If
'value' is never bound, the the bug will show up sooner.


-- 
Gerald Britton


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  2 10:00:28 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:00:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-02, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <hk82uv$8kn$1 at reader1.panix.com>, kj <no.email at please.post> 
> wrote:
>
>> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
>> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
>> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
>> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.
>> [...]
>> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
>> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
>> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
>> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
>> mayhem*.
>
> I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.

I think it is.  There should be different syntax to import from
"standard" places and from "current directory".  Similar to the 
difference between "foo.h" and <foo.h> in cpp.

> The general
> pattern is:
>
> 1) You have something which refers to a resource by name.
>
> 2) There is a sequence of places which are searched for this
>    name.

Searching the current directory by default is the problem.
Nobody in their right mind has "." in the shell PATH and IMO it
shouldn't be in Python's import path either.  Even those
wreckless souls who do put "." in their path put it at the end
so they don't accidentally override system commands.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! So this is what it
                                  at               feels like to be potato
                               visi.com            salad


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  2 10:09:26 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:09:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python packet capture utility
References: <mailman.1778.1265096925.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hk9f76$qqc$2@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-02, VYAS ASHISH M-NTB837 <ashish.vyas at motorola.com> wrote:
>  
> Dear All
>
> I want to capture tcp packets in python. I need to do this on both
> Windows and Linux on python3.1
>
> I came across the following:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycap/
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pylibpcap/
> http://code.google.com/p/pypcap/
> http://oss.coresecurity.com/projects/pcapy.html
>
>
> I am not able to evaluate on my own.

And we're supposed to evaluate them for you?

      pycap:  last release 5/2003.

  pylibpcap:  last release 5/2008

      pycap:  last release 1/2007

      pcapy:  last release 3/2007

> Which one should I pick up?

I'd start with the newest one.  It's the one I use, and it
works fine for me.

> Priority is python3.1 support on both windows and Linux.

I don't think any of them support 3.1.

> I don't have to do many/complex operations. If it is not so
> programmer friendly I am OK.
>
> Also let me know if 2to3 would help here if there is not
> python3 support.

I'f you're not expereienced porting libraries from 2.4 to 3.1,
then you shouldn't be using 3.1.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Did you move a lot of
                                  at               KOREAN STEAK KNIVES this
                               visi.com            trip, Dingy?


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 10:12:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:12:02 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002020712h23fedd3g6e97368413633674@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:13 AM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

> In <pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> Steven
> D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>
> >As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
> >breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
> >was missed.
>
> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
> the deliberations I'm looking for.)
>

The problem with "fixing" the import system is that touching it in any way
potentially breaks *vast* volumes of code that works just right, right now
in any version of Python. It's not even something you can easily test:
there's a lot of edge-cases supporting various features that have been added
over the years. A pure-python import mechanism with a set of test-cases to
"prove" it reliably mimic'd the existing mechanism wasn't even complete by
the time Python3 came out, without that, any changes to "fix" Python3+'s
import system would just be a shot in the dark.

And there'd be no telling just /what/ it would break if you start changing
these very old import semantics.


> P.S. Yes, I see the backwards-compatibility problem, but that's
> what rolling out a whole new versions is good for; it's a bit of
> a fresh start.  I remember hearing GvR's Google Talk on the coming
> Python 3, which was still in the works then, and being struck by
> the sheer *modesty* of the proposed changes (while the developers
> of the mythical Perl6 seemed to be on a quest for transcendence to
> a Higher Plane of Programming, as they still are).


Yes, it was a relatively modest upgrade, thankfully so. We actually have our
fixed language, and Perl6 is coming on some point on the horizon. Python3
allowed backwards incompatible changes, but they still needed to have a
justification to them: and more importantly, they usually needed to change
from one well-defined state to a new, 'cleaner' well-defined state, so they
could be automatically corrected or at least easily found. The Bytes/Unicode
situation is one case where there wasn't a well-defined state you can
convert from, and so with Python3, every single string you really need to
look at and decide, "Should this have been bytes, or characters?".

Having to ask that question for every string is a significant burden, to
expect someone to have to ask the same sort of question for every single
import is asking -way- too much for people porting to Python 3.

Py3k's adoption is a slow, uphill process-- no one expected (from my reading
at least)-- it to take less then years and multiple 3.x iterations before
people would /really/ significantly start using it. There's too many third
party modules people depend on and they have to slowly be converted. They're
being converted, and IMHO there's steadily growing momentum on this (albeit
not huge momentum), but had they messed with the import semantics-- this
would be /way/ more difficult, and you might end up with a DOA project.


> In particular
> the business with print -> print() seemed truly bizarre to me: this
> is a change that will break a *huge* volume of code, and yet,
> judging by the rationale given for it, the change solves what are,
> IMHO, a relatively minor annoyances.  Python's old print statement
> is, I think, at most a tiny little zit invisible to all but those
> obsessed with absolute perfection.


You have a very strange perception of huge. For one thing, every single use
of print() can be converted -automatically-: the rules of this change are
very clear. The print statement was a bizarre sort of wart (look at >>!) and
fixing it is easy. Further, *huge* volume of code-- /really/?! In my
experience, print isn't really all /that/ common after you get out of the
tutorial and start doing real code. If you're doing lots of shell scripting
maybe that's not the case: but for any sort of server-daemon-process sort of
apps, print is utterly unacceptable. I use the logging module. For GUI apps,
same.

But for those times when you use print.. its /really easy/ to fix.

And I can't imagine that whatever
> would be required to fix Python's import system could break more
> code than redefining the rules for a workhorse like print.
>

Your imagination is lacking here then: virtually every single bit of Python
code uses import, and messing with it can have wide implications that you
can't even /define/ ahead of time. As such you can't write a guide, a 2to3
fixer, or a HOWTO to tell people: hey, this is how you used to do things in
Python2, this is how you do them in Python3. Having them mess with the
import machinery would be throwing every Py3 developer under the bus,
saying, "Well, just run it. Fix whatever errors happen."


> In contrast, the Python import problem is a ticking bomb potentially
> affecting all code that imports other modules.  All that needs to
> happen is that, in a future release of Python, some new standard
> module emerges (like numbers.py emerged in 2.6), and this module
> is imported by some module your code imports.  Boom!  Note that it
> was only coincidental that the bug I reported in this thread occurred
> in a script I wrote recently.  I could have written both scripts
> before 2.6 was released, and the new numbers.py along with it;
> barring the uncanny clairvoyance of some responders, there would
> have been, at the time, absolutely no plausible reason for not
> naming one of the two scripts numbers.py.
>

This is drifting into hyperbole; yes, Python's flat import namespace isn't
ideal, yes, it can mean that when a new version is released you may shadow
something you didn't before, yes, that can cause code to break. Its really,
really, really not anything like as bad as you're making it out to be.

Your bomb can be averted via:

    - Don't use relative imports.

    - Don't structure your code and environment such that your libs and/or
scripts end up living in the global namespace if you want to be
future-proof.

    - If you didn't future-proof your code, then check What's New on new
versions of Python.

There, time bomb disarmed.

To the argument that the import system can't be easily fixed because
> it breaks existing code, one can reply that the *current* import
> system already breaks existing code, as illustrated by the example
> I've given in this thread: this could have easily been old pre-2.6
> code that got broken just because Python decided to add numbers.py
> to the distribution.


Yes, one can make that argument, but it would be specious. Messing with the
import system -would- have broken code, and done so in a way which can not
be easily or clearly identified by looking at code directly, as you wouldn't
know "break" until you somehow took the /entire/ layout of the system into
account, which is infeasible.

The current import system -may- break code, if someone writes their code in
such a way, structures their code in such a way, and Python happens to add a
new item to its standard library which causes that code to now shadow a
standard module.

The former case, 'change the import system', requires someone look at every
single import, evaluate that import in the full context of the environment,
and determine if its working as intended or not.

The latter case, 'leave the non-ideal import system in place', requires
someone look at imports of top-level modules, and ensure that they don't
shadow built-ins. You don't need to know where all the sys.path items are,
you don't need to know if you're importing from a zip file, or anything like
that. You just need to see if your top-level / relative import is shadowing
a new standard library module or not.

Yes, the latter case means that if you are supporting new Python versions
that come out, you'll have to make that evaluation with each one if you
decide not to code and structure your code in such a way that it is
future-proof.


> (Yes, Python can't guarantee that the names
> of new standard modules won't clash with the names of existing
> local modules, but this is true for Perl as well, and due to Perl's
> module import scheme (and naming conventions), a scenario like the
> one I presented in this thread would have been astronomically
> improbable.  The Perl example shows that the design of the module
> import scheme and naming conventions for standard modules can go
> a long way to minimize the consequences of this unavoidable potential
> for future name clashes.)
>

Again: It is very, very avoidable.

I know, cuz I've sorta been avoiding it easily and successfully for years
now :P

--S
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From bartc at freeuk.com  Tue Feb  2 10:23:37 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:23:37 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ZrX9n.34661$Ym4.20954@text.news.virginmedia.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
>  foo();       # Call 'foo' with no args.
>  $bar = foo;  # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
>  $bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
>               # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
>  $bar->()     # Call whatever '$bar' is pointing at with no args
>
> Compare with python:
>
>  foo()       # Call 'foo' with no args.
>  bar = foo() # 'bar' is now pointing to whatever 'foo()' returned
>  bar = foo   # 'bar' is now pointing to the same thing 'foo' points to
>  bar()       # Call 'bar' with no args
>
> One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> function calls with references.

If you get rid of the syntax specific to Perl, then having to explicitly
obtain a function reference, or to dereference the result, is not such a big
deal:

 foo          # Call 'foo' with no args.
 bar = foo    # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to 'bar'
 bar = &foo   # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to 'bar'
 bar^         # Call whatever 'bar' is pointing at with no args

(Here I use ^ instead of -> to dereference.)  Compared with Python, it saves
3 lots of (), but needs & and ^ added. Still a net saving.

> One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious.

I'd say that having this "&" symbol in front of "foo" makes it more obvious
than just foo by itself. But I agree not quite as clean.

Another thing is that you have to know whether "bar" is a function, or a 
function ref, and use the appropriate syntax. Sometimes this is helpful, 
sometimes not.


-- 
Bartc




From masklinn at masklinn.net  Tue Feb  2 11:28:52 2010
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:28:52 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
Message-ID: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>To add a custom level, I would proceed that way:
>
>logging.ALERT = 45
>logging.addLevelName(logging.ALERT, 'ALERT !!')
>logging.getLogger().log(logging.ALERT, 'test')
>
>Passing a string to the log method as you did is incorrect.

I know it's currently incorrect. My point was more along the line that there was *no reason* for it to be incorrect. logging already contains all the tools for log('PANTS_ON_FIRE') to be allowed

>Regarding your first point, I guess it's anti pattern. One way to do it:
>1/ Configure the root logger with the lowest value 0, so the root logger 
>does not filter any level.
>2/ Configure each of your logger with the correct level
>
>That way you can configure your '0' logger as you (badly :o)) named it 
>with one level, and configure a potential '1' logger with another level. 
>Don't bother with propagation. That way you won't need to duplicate your 
>handlers on every logger.

re logger 0, no need for complex name for a test case (and it allowed me to create easy-to-remember 0.1 and 0.1.2 if needed)

Re your answer, from what I understand you want the root logger to NOTSET and then each child logger with its correct level? But that's not a solution, each and every level will *still* require a handler explicitly configured on it. That's in fact very much my issue: logging refuses that a logger be handler-less in a config file, it's mandatory to configure a handler any time a logger is configured.

From edreamleo at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 11:36:24 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:36:24 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7 b3 released
Message-ID: <s1lgm51abvial67ol3u7qagik8iu8fb65l@4ax.com>

Leo 4.7 beta 3                       February 2, 2009

Leo 4.7 beta 3 is now available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106

Leo 4.7 beta 3 fixes all known serious bugs in Leo.

Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more.
See:
http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

The highlights of Leo 4.7:
--------------------------

- Leo now uses the simplest possible internal data model.
  This is the so-called "one-node" world.
- Leo supports Python 3.x.
- Leo requires Python 2.6 or above.
- Several important improvements in file handling.
    - Leo converts @file nodes to @thin nodes automatically.
    - @auto-rst now works much more reliably reliably.
    - Leo no longer @noref trees.  Such trees are not
      reliable in cooperative environments.
- A new Windows installer.
- Many other features, including new command line options and new
plugins.
- Dozens of bug fixes.

Edward K. Ream

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Forum:    http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
Bzr:      http://code.launchpad.net/leo-editor/
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 11:42:12 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No return to the parent function
Message-ID: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

I've a main function called i.e. *foo()* which has a block of code
that is repetead several times (for the error catching code and error
reporting), but that code has a return to exit of *foo()*

-----------
foo():
  ...
    if self.background:
        _log.exception(str(error))
        return ReturnCode.ERROR, None
    else:
        raise NameError(error)

-----------

So I would tu put that code block into a separated function (*throw()
*), but the problem is that it returns to the parent function (foo()).
How to solve it?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  2 11:52:48 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:52:48 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>
Message-ID: <4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>

Masklinn wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> To add a custom level, I would proceed that way:
>>
>> logging.ALERT = 45
>> logging.addLevelName(logging.ALERT, 'ALERT !!')
>> logging.getLogger().log(logging.ALERT, 'test')
>>
>> Passing a string to the log method as you did is incorrect.
>>     
>
> I know it's currently incorrect. My point was more along the line that there was *no reason* for it to be incorrect. logging already contains all the tools for log('PANTS_ON_FIRE') to be allowed
>   
The reason is that log takes an *int* as first argument that defines the 
logging level. You gave a string. So There is definitely a reason for it 
to be incorrect.
>   
>> Regarding your first point, I guess it's anti pattern. One way to do it:
>> 1/ Configure the root logger with the lowest value 0, so the root logger 
>> does not filter any level.
>> 2/ Configure each of your logger with the correct level
>>
>> That way you can configure your '0' logger as you (badly :o)) named it 
>> with one level, and configure a potential '1' logger with another level. 
>> Don't bother with propagation. That way you won't need to duplicate your 
>> handlers on every logger.
>>     
>
> re logger 0, no need for complex name for a test case (and it allowed me to create easy-to-remember 0.1 and 0.1.2 if needed)
>
> Re your answer, from what I understand you want the root logger to NOTSET and then each child logger with its correct level? But that's not a solution, each and every level will *still* require a handler explicitly configured on it. That's in fact very much my issue: logging refuses that a logger be handler-less in a config file, it's mandatory to configure a handler any time a logger is configured.
>   
the field handlers must be defined even if empty.

[loggers]
keys=root,0,1

[handlers]
keys=console

[formatters]
keys=simple

[logger_root]
level=DEBUG
handlers=console

[logger_1]
level=INFO
qualname=1
handlers=

[logger_0]
level=DEBUG
qualname=0
handlers=

[handler_console]
class=StreamHandler
formatter=simple
args=()

[formatter_simple]
format=%(asctime)s:%(levelname)-8s:%(name)s::%(message)s


import logging; import logging.config
logging.config.fileConfig("log.config")
l1 = logging.getLogger("1")
l0 = logging.getLogger("0")
l1.debug('I am l1')
...
l0.debug('I am l0')
... 2010-02-02 17:48:55,710:DEBUG   :0::I am l0

JM


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  2 11:55:58 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:55:58 +0000
Subject: No return to the parent function
References: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2vdefzie9.fsf@googlemail.com>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> I've a main function called i.e. *foo()* which has a block of code
> that is repetead several times (for the error catching code and error
> reporting), but that code has a return to exit of *foo()*
>
> -----------
> foo():
>   ...
>     if self.background:
>         _log.exception(str(error))
>         return ReturnCode.ERROR, None
>     else:
>         raise NameError(error)
>
> -----------
>
> So I would tu put that code block into a separated function (*throw()
> *), but the problem is that it returns to the parent function (foo()).
> How to solve it?

If I understand correctly, you can simply do this:

def throw(...):
    if ...:
        ...
        return ...
    else:
        raise ...

def foo():
    ...
    return throw(...)

HTH

I.e. if throw returns something, foo returns it as well.  If throw
raises an exception, it will go through foo.  Is this what you want?

-- 
Arnaud


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:00:45 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:00:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No return to the parent function
References: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vdefzie9.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4aded884-b81e-45d6-be08-39e064fbe184@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 2 feb, 16:55, Arnaud Delobelle <arno... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> writes:
> > I've a main function called i.e. *foo()* which has a block of code
> > that is repetead several times (for the error catching code and error
> > reporting), but that code has a return to exit of *foo()*
>
> > -----------
> > foo():
> > ? ...
> > ? ? if self.background:
> > ? ? ? ? _log.exception(str(error))
> > ? ? ? ? return ReturnCode.ERROR, None
> > ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? raise NameError(error)
>
> > -----------
>
> > So I would tu put that code block into a separated function (*throw()
> > *), but the problem is that it returns to the parent function (foo()).
> > How to solve it?
>
> If I understand correctly, you can simply do this:
>
> def throw(...):
> ? ? if ...:
> ? ? ? ? ...
> ? ? ? ? return ...
> ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? raise ...
>
> def foo():
> ? ? ...
> ? ? return throw(...)
>
> HTH
>
> I.e. if throw returns something, foo returns it as well. ?If throw
> raises an exception, it will go through foo. ?Is this what you want?
>
> --
> Arnaud

Yes, that is it. It was more simple that I had thinked, thanks!


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Feb  2 12:02:10 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:02:10 +0000
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:00:28 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

>>> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
>>> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
>>> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
>>> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
>>> mayhem*.
>>
>> I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.
> 
> I think it is.

I agree.

> There should be different syntax to import from
> "standard" places and from "current directory".  Similar to the 
> difference between "foo.h" and <foo.h> in cpp.

I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
than in the process' CWD.

As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
lexically scoped.

>> The general
>> pattern is:
>>
>> 1) You have something which refers to a resource by name.
>>
>> 2) There is a sequence of places which are searched for this
>>    name.
> 
> Searching the current directory by default is the problem.
> Nobody in their right mind has "." in the shell PATH and IMO it
> shouldn't be in Python's import path either.  Even those
> wreckless souls who do put "." in their path put it at the end
> so they don't accidentally override system commands.

Except, what should be happening here is that it should be searching the
directory containing the file performing the import *first*. If foo.py
contains "import bar", and there's a bar.py in the same directory as
foo.py, that's the one it should be using.

The existing behaviour is simply wrong, and there's no excuse for it
("but it's easier to implement" isn't a legitimate argument).

The only situation where the process' CWD should be used is for an import
statement in a non-file source (i.e. stdin or the argument to the -c
switch).



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Feb  2 12:08:54 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:08:54 +0000
Subject: No return to the parent function
In-Reply-To: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B685C26.3060601@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Joan Miller wrote:
> I've a main function called i.e. *foo()* which has a block of code
> that is repetead several times (for the error catching code and error
> reporting), but that code has a return to exit of *foo()*
> 
> -----------
> foo():
>   ...
>     if self.background:
>         _log.exception(str(error))
>         return ReturnCode.ERROR, None
>     else:
>         raise NameError(error)
> 
> -----------
> 
> So I would tu put that code block into a separated function (*throw()
> *), but the problem is that it returns to the parent function (foo()).
> How to solve it?

Call it in a return statement.


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  2 12:20:41 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:20:41 +0100
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <hk9mta$1tb$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Nobody:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:00:28 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>>>> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
>>>> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
>>>> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
>>>> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
>>>> mayhem*.
>>> I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.
>> I think it is.
> 
> I agree.
> 
>> There should be different syntax to import from
>> "standard" places and from "current directory".  Similar to the 
>> difference between "foo.h" and <foo.h> in cpp.
> 
> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
> than in the process' CWD.
> 
> As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
> lexically scoped.
> 
>>> The general
>>> pattern is:
>>>
>>> 1) You have something which refers to a resource by name.
>>>
>>> 2) There is a sequence of places which are searched for this
>>>    name.
>> Searching the current directory by default is the problem.
>> Nobody in their right mind has "." in the shell PATH and IMO it
>> shouldn't be in Python's import path either.  Even those
>> wreckless souls who do put "." in their path put it at the end
>> so they don't accidentally override system commands.
> 
> Except, what should be happening here is that it should be searching the
> directory containing the file performing the import *first*. If foo.py
> contains "import bar", and there's a bar.py in the same directory as
> foo.py, that's the one it should be using.
> 
> The existing behaviour is simply wrong, and there's no excuse for it
> ("but it's easier to implement" isn't a legitimate argument).

+1


> The only situation where the process' CWD should be used is for an import
> statement in a non-file source (i.e. stdin or the argument to the -c
> switch).

Hm, not sure about that last.


Cheers,

- Alf


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  2 13:29:54 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:29:54 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hk9qv2$q8b$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/2/2010 9:13 AM, kj wrote:

>> As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
>> breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
>> was missed.
>
> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
> the deliberations I'm looking for.)

There was a proposal to put the whole stdlib into a gigantic package, so 
that

import itertools

would become, for instance

import std.itertools.

Guido rejected that. I believe he both did not like it and was concerned 
about making upgrade to 3.x even harder. The discussion was probably on 
the now closed py3k list.

Terry Jan Reedy



From tinnews at isbd.co.uk  Tue Feb  2 13:32:46 2010
From: tinnews at isbd.co.uk (tinnews at isbd.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:32:46 +0000
Subject: What's this vText() annotation mean?
Message-ID: <en7m37-mlc.ln1@chris.isbd.net>

What does this vText() annotation mean in a returned list:-

    [['Apr 19', vText(u'PAYE'), ''], ['Mar 31', vText(u'VAT'), ''], ['May 19', vText(u'Year end PAYE'), '']]

I *guess* it's some sort of indication of non-constant text, I need a
way to make it constant (well, to get a constant copy of it) because a
function I'm passing it to is complaining about a type mismatch:-

    TypeError: in method 'Fl_Input__value', argument 2 of type 'char const *'

-- 
Chris Green



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 13:38:53 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:38:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com> 
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <deb07bff-e9ef-4384-a206-c5aad551ef85@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 9:02?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
> than in the process' CWD.
>
> As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
> lexically scoped.

Mostly incorrect.  The CWD is in sys.path only for interactive
sessions, and when started with -c switch.  When running scripts, the
directory where the script is located is used instead, not the
process's working directory.

So, no, it isn't anything like dynamic scoping.


> The only situation where the process' CWD should be used is for an import
> statement in a non-file source (i.e. stdin or the argument to the -c
> switch).

It already is that way, chief.

I think you're misunderstanding what's wrong here; the CWD doesn't
have anything to do with it.  Even if CWD isn't in the path you still
get the bad behavior kj noted.  So now what?

Python's importing can be improved but there's no foolproof way to get
rid of the fundamental problem of name clashes.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 13:45:07 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:45:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 2:49?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
> > Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
> > library module of related functions, "email_handling.py". ?Modules and
> > scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
> > names.
>
> > (**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
> > an "innocuous" name, It can.
>
> That does not solve anything,

Of course it does, it solves the problem of having poorly-named
modules.  It also helps reduce possibility of name clashes.

> if the smtplib follows your advice, then
> you'll be shadowing its send_email module.
> The only way to avoid collision would be to name your module
> __PDSFLSDF_send_email__13221sdfsdf__.py

I know, and as we all know accidental name clashes are the end of the
world and Mother Python should protect us feeble victims from any
remote possibility of ever having a name clash.


Carl Banks


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  2 14:00:21 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:00:21 +0000
Subject: What's this vText() annotation mean?
References: <en7m37-mlc.ln1@chris.isbd.net>
Message-ID: <m2r5p3zcmy.fsf@googlemail.com>

tinnews at isbd.co.uk writes:

> What does this vText() annotation mean in a returned list:-
>
>     [['Apr 19', vText(u'PAYE'), ''], 

It means your list contains an instance of a class whose __repr__()
method returns "vText(u'PAYE')".  If it follows common practice, the
class is probably named "vText".  You are likely to be importing and
using a module that defines a class called "vText".  I don't know such a
module, I don't think it's in the standard library so it would be useful
if you gave more details about the context.

A quick google for "vtext python" yields something about an iCalendar
package for python.  Is it what you are using?

-- 
Arnaud


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Feb  2 14:01:21 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:01:21 +0100
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
In-Reply-To: <942aa99d-1bc1-4aa8-867a-6366cb3668a1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B675FE2.4090404@v.loewis.de>
	<942aa99d-1bc1-4aa8-867a-6366cb3668a1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk9sq2$pnl$1@online.de>

> Clearly it was added to work with an array, and it's
> being used with an array. Why shouldn't people use it
> with Python 2.x?

Because it's not thread-safe; it may crash the interpreter if used
incorrectly.

Of course, if you don't share the array across threads, it can be safe
to use.

Regards,
Martin


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  2 14:07:48 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:07:48 +0100
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B687804.6070005@sequans.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2:49 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>     
>>> Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
>>> library module of related functions, "email_handling.py".  Modules and
>>> scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
>>> names.
>>>       
>>> (**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
>>> an "innocuous" name, It can.
>>>       
>> That does not solve anything,
>>     
>
> Of course it does, it solves the problem of having poorly-named
> modules.  It also helps reduce possibility of name clashes.
>   

Actually don't you think it will increase the possibility ? There are 
much less possibilties of properly naming an object than badly naming it.
So if everybody tend to properly name their object with their obvious 
version like you proposed, the set of possible names will decrease, 
increasing the clash ratio.

I'm just nitpicking by the way, but it may be better to ask for better 
namespacing instead of naming (which is good thing but unrelated to the 
OP issue).

JM




From no.email at please.post  Tue Feb  2 14:43:40 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:43:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list at python.org> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>On 2/2/2010 9:13 AM, kj wrote:

>>> As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
>>> breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
>>> was missed.
>>
>> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
>> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
>> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
>> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
>> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
>> the deliberations I'm looking for.)

>There was a proposal to put the whole stdlib into a gigantic package, so 
>that

>import itertools

>would become, for instance

>import std.itertools.

>Guido rejected that. I believe he both did not like it and was concerned 
>about making upgrade to 3.x even harder. The discussion was probably on 
>the now closed py3k list.


Thanks.  I'll look for this thread.

~K


From MLMDev at Comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 15:14:27 2010
From: MLMDev at Comcast.net (Mitchell L Model)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:14:27 -0500
Subject: lists as an efficient implementation of large two-dimensional
	arrays(!)
Message-ID: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>

An instructive lesson in YAGNI ("you aren't going to need it"),  
premature optimization, and not making assumptions about Python data  
structure implementations.

I need a 1000 x 1000 two-dimensional array of objects. (Since they are  
instances of application classes it appears that the array module is  
useless; likewise, since I am using Python 3.1, so among other things,  
I can't use numpy or its relatives.) The usage pattern is that the  
array is first completely filled with objects. Later, objects are  
sometimes accessed individually by row and column and often the entire  
array is iterated over.

Worried (unnecessarily, as it turns out) by the prospect of 1,000,000  
element list I started by constructing a dictionary with the keys 1  
through 1000, each of which had as its value another dictionary with  
the keys 1 through 1000. Actual values were the values of the second  
level dictionary.

Using numbers to fill the array to minimize the effect of creating my  
more complex objects, and running Python 3.1.1 on an 8-core Mac Pro  
with 8Gb memory, I tried the following

#create and fill the array:
t1 = time.time()
d2 = {}
for j in range(1000):
     d2[j] = dict()
     for k in range(1000):
         d2[j][k] = k
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.41

# access each element of the array:
t1 = time.time()
for j in range(1000):
     for k in range(1000):
         elt = d2[j][k]
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.55

  My program was too slow, so I started investigating whether I could  
improve on the two-level dictionary, which got used a lot. To get  
another baseline I tried a pure 1,000,000-element list, expecting the  
times to be be horrendous, but look!

# fill a list using append
t1 = time.time()
lst = []
for n in range(1000000):
     lst.append(n)
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.26

# access every element of a list
t1 = time.time()
for n in range(1000000):
     elt = lst[n]
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.25

What a shock! I could save half the execution time and all my clever  
work and awkward double-layer dictionary expressions by just using a  
list!

Even better, look what happens using a comprehension to create the  
list instead of a loop with list.append:

t1 = time.time()
lst = [n for n in range(1000000)]
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.11

Half again to create the list.

Iterating over the whole list is easier and faster than iterating over  
the double-level dictionary, in particular because it doesn't involve  
a two-level loop. But what about individual access given a row and a  
column?

t1 = time.time()
for j in range(1000):
     for k in range(1000):
         elt = lst[j * 1000 + k]
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.45

This is the same as for the dictionary.

I tried a two-level list and a few other things but still haven't  
found anything that works better than a single long list -- just like  
2-D arrays are coded in old-style languages, with indices computed as  
offsets from the beginning of the linear sequence of all the values.  
What's amazing is that creating and accessing 1,000,000-element list  
in Python is so efficient. The usual moral obtains: start simple,  
analyze problems (functional or performance) as they arise, decide  
whether they are worth the cost of change, then change in very limited  
ways. And of course abstract and modularize so that, in my case, for  
example, none of the program's code would be affected by the change  
from a two-level dictionary representation to using a single long list.

I realize there are many directions an analysis like this can follow,  
and many factors affecting it, including patterns of use. I just  
wanted to demonstrate the basics for a situation that I just  
encountered. In particular, if the array was sparse, rather than  
completely full, the two-level dictionary implementation would be the  
natural representation.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 15:26:16 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 11:07?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
> > On Feb 2, 2:49 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Carl Banks wrote:
>
> >>> Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
> >>> library module of related functions, "email_handling.py". ?Modules and
> >>> scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
> >>> names.
>
> >>> (**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
> >>> an "innocuous" name, It can.
>
> >> That does not solve anything,
>
> > Of course it does, it solves the problem of having poorly-named
> > modules. ?It also helps reduce possibility of name clashes.
>
> Actually don't you think it will increase the possibility ? There are
> much less possibilties of properly naming an object than badly naming it.

You've got to be kidding me, you're saying that a bad name like
email.py is less likely to clash than a more descriptive name like
send_email.py?

> So if everybody tend to properly name their object with their obvious
> version like you proposed, the set of possible names will decrease,
> increasing the clash ratio.

I did not propose obvious module names.  I said obvious names like
email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are
better.


Carl Banks


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 15:36:45 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:36:45 -0500
Subject: lists as an efficient implementation of large two-dimensional 
	arrays(!)
In-Reply-To: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
References: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002021236s5f2e5eb2o5535258567921039@mail.gmail.com>

Did you try it with an array object using the array module?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Mitchell L Model <MLMDev at comcast.net> wrote:
> An instructive lesson in YAGNI ("you aren't going to need it"), premature
> optimization, and not making assumptions about Python data structure
> implementations.
>
> I need a 1000 x 1000 two-dimensional array of objects. (Since they are
> instances of application classes it appears that the array module is
> useless; likewise, since I am using Python 3.1, so among other things, I
> can't use numpy or its relatives.) The usage pattern is that the array is
> first completely filled with objects. Later, objects are sometimes accessed
> individually by row and column and often the entire array is iterated over.
>
> Worried (unnecessarily, as it turns out) by the prospect of 1,000,000
> element list I started by constructing a dictionary with the keys 1 through
> 1000, each of which had as its value another dictionary with the keys 1
> through 1000. Actual values were the values of the second level dictionary.
>
> Using numbers to fill the array to minimize the effect of creating my more
> complex objects, and running Python 3.1.1 on an 8-core Mac Pro with 8Gb
> memory, I tried the following
>
> #create and fill the array:
> t1 = time.time()
> d2 = {}
> for j in range(1000):
> ? ?d2[j] = dict()
> ? ?for k in range(1000):
> ? ? ? ?d2[j][k] = k
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.41
>
> # access each element of the array:
> t1 = time.time()
> for j in range(1000):
> ? ?for k in range(1000):
> ? ? ? ?elt = d2[j][k]
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.55
>
> ?My program was too slow, so I started investigating whether I could improve
> on the two-level dictionary, which got used a lot. To get another baseline I
> tried a pure 1,000,000-element list, expecting the times to be be
> horrendous, but look!
>
> # fill a list using append
> t1 = time.time()
> lst = []
> for n in range(1000000):
> ? ?lst.append(n)
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.26
>
> # access every element of a list
> t1 = time.time()
> for n in range(1000000):
> ? ?elt = lst[n]
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.25
>
> What a shock! I could save half the execution time and all my clever work
> and awkward double-layer dictionary expressions by just using a list!
>
> Even better, look what happens using a comprehension to create the list
> instead of a loop with list.append:
>
> t1 = time.time()
> lst = [n for n in range(1000000)]
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.11
>
> Half again to create the list.
>
> Iterating over the whole list is easier and faster than iterating over the
> double-level dictionary, in particular because it doesn't involve a
> two-level loop. But what about individual access given a row and a column?
>
> t1 = time.time()
> for j in range(1000):
> ? ?for k in range(1000):
> ? ? ? ?elt = lst[j * 1000 + k]
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.45
>
> This is the same as for the dictionary.
>
> I tried a two-level list and a few other things but still haven't found
> anything that works better than a single long list -- just like 2-D arrays
> are coded in old-style languages, with indices computed as offsets from the
> beginning of the linear sequence of all the values. What's amazing is that
> creating and accessing 1,000,000-element list in Python is so efficient. The
> usual moral obtains: start simple, analyze problems (functional or
> performance) as they arise, decide whether they are worth the cost of
> change, then change in very limited ways. And of course abstract and
> modularize so that, in my case, for example, none of the program's code
> would be affected by the change from a two-level dictionary representation
> to using a single long list.
>
> I realize there are many directions an analysis like this can follow, and
> many factors affecting it, including patterns of use. I just wanted to
> demonstrate the basics for a situation that I just encountered. In
> particular, if the array was sparse, rather than completely full, the
> two-level dictionary implementation would be the natural representation.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From xahlee at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 15:40:13 2010
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:40:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
Message-ID: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
freenode.net.

Here's a log:

2010-02-02

(12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL | http://pound-python.org/
| It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
http://paste.pocoo.org/ | Tutorial: http://docs.python.org/tut/ | FAQ:
http://effbot.org/pyfaq/ | New Programmer? Read http://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
| #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
#python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
offtopic
(12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
actually.
(12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
(12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
(12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
(12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
etc) right is quite tricky
(12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
wondering whats up with the python verison :D
(12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
(12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

---------------

I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From alan at baselinedata.co.uk  Tue Feb  2 15:50:28 2010
From: alan at baselinedata.co.uk (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:50:28 +0000
Subject: Threading issue with SQLite
In-Reply-To: <09ca16b8-4e10-40f5-a69d-29fcdf6c2593@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1612.1264783064.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<09ca16b8-4e10-40f5-a69d-29fcdf6c2593@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B689014.9090801@baselinedata.co.uk>


Many thanks to all who replied to my questions re. SQLite connections, 
cursors and threading.

Looks like I have got some reading to do regarding connection pooling and
a decent SQLite ORM package.  Does anyone know of any which are Python 3 
compatible?

Many thanks,
Alanj


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  2 15:54:25 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:54:25 +0100
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
Message-ID: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving into the 
details of the Python language.

It's just a few pages yet, file [03 asd.pdf] (no real title yet!) at <url: 
http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> which is at Google Docs.

The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether this text 
is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any improvements that 
could be made.


Cheers,

- Alf


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Feb  2 15:57:11 2010
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:57:11 -0000
Subject: lists as an efficient implementation of large two-dimensional
	arrays(!)
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002021236s5f2e5eb2o5535258567921039@mail.gmail.com>
References: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
	<5d1a32001002021236s5f2e5eb2o5535258567921039@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100202205711.26099.185894442.divmod.xquotient.82@localhost.localdomain>

On 08:36 pm, gerald.britton at gmail.com wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Mitchell L Model <MLMDev at comcast.net> 
>wrote:
>>I need a 1000 x 1000 two-dimensional array of objects. (Since they are
>>instances of application classes it appears that the array module is
>>useless;

>Did you try it with an array object using the array module?

Jean-Paul


From astan.chee at al.com.au  Tue Feb  2 16:07:50 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:07:50 +1100
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
In-Reply-To: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>
References: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B689426.1070400@al.com.au>

Hi,
Sorry for being vague but here my question about converting an xml into 
a dict. I found some examples online but none gives the dict/result I 
want. The xml looks like this:
<doc>
    <stats name="position1" description="Calculation statistics"
kind="position">
    <stats name="time" description="Timing summary" kind="section">
        <string name="timersNote" description="Note:">This is the note
on calculation times</string>
        <stats name="timers" kind="timers">

        <timer name="totaltime" description="Total time">
            <elapsed>609.081574</elapsed>
            <user>2531.972081</user>
            <system>65.119100</system>
        </timer>
        <timer name="partialTimer" description="Gravitational Displacement">
            <elapsed>1772.011230</elapsed>
        </timer>
        <stats name="subTimers" description="All non-phased time" 
kind="timers">
            <timer name="subATimer" description="Phase time A">
            <elapsed>72.418861</elapsed>
            </timer>

            <timer name="subBTimer" description="Phase time B">
            <elapsed>28.285192</elapsed>
            </timer>
            <timer name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
            <elapsed>0.000</elapsed>
            </timer>
        </stats>
        <timer name="endTime" description="End">
            <elapsed>607.432373</elapsed>
        </timer>
        </stats>
    </stats>
    <stats name="space" description="Space usage summary" kind="section">
        <stats name="systemSpace" description="System Space">
        <memory name="heapSpace" description="Total Space">
            <peak>4833280000</peak>

            <current>4833280000</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="spaceResidentSize" description="Space resident size">
            <peak>4182777856</peak>
            <current>4182777856</current>
        </memory>
        <int name="pageMem">1</int>

        <int name="memReclaims">1943498</int>
        <int name="memSwaps">0</int>
        </stats>
        <stats name="subsystems" kind="memstats">
        <memory name="geoSpace" description="Geo-Space">
            <peak>1640100156</peak>
            <current>411307840</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="gridSpace" description="Grid-Space">
            <peak>709596712</peak>
            <current>1406752</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
            <peak>737720720</peak>
            <current>0</current>
        </memory>
                <memory name="endTime" description="End">
            <peak>607.432373</peak>
        </memory>
        </stats>
            <memory name="subsystemSpace" description="Subsystem space
total">
        <peak>5164184694</peak>
        <current>2054715622</current>
        </memory>
   
    </stats>
    </stats>
 </doc>

using this script (taken from http://code.activestate.com/recipes/410469/):
from xml.etree import cElementTree as ElementTree

class XmlListConfig(list):
    def __init__(self, aList):
        for element in aList:
            if element:
                # treat like dict
                if len(element) == 1 or element[0].tag != element[1].tag:
                    self.append(XmlDictConfig(element))
                # treat like list
                elif element[0].tag == element[1].tag:
                    self.append(XmlListConfig(element))
            elif element.text:
                text = element.text.strip()
                if text:
                    self.append(text)


class XmlDictConfig(dict):
    '''
    Example usage:

    >>> tree = ElementTree.parse('your_file.xml')
    >>> root = tree.getroot()
    >>> xmldict = XmlDictConfig(root)

    Or, if you want to use an XML string:

    >>> root = ElementTree.XML(xml_string)
    >>> xmldict = XmlDictConfig(root)

    And then use xmldict for what it is... a dict.
    '''
    def __init__(self, parent_element):
        if parent_element.items():
            self.update(dict(parent_element.items()))
        for element in parent_element:
            if element:
                # treat like dict - we assume that if the first two tags
                # in a series are different, then they are all different.
                if len(element) == 1 or element[0].tag != element[1].tag:
                    aDict = XmlDictConfig(element)
                # treat like list - we assume that if the first two tags
                # in a series are the same, then the rest are the same.
                else:
                    # here, we put the list in dictionary; the key is the
                    # tag name the list elements all share in common, and
                    # the value is the list itself
                    aDict = {element[0].tag: XmlListConfig(element)}
                # if the tag has attributes, add those to the dict
                if element.items():
                    aDict.update(dict(element.items()))
                self.update({element.tag: aDict})
            # this assumes that if you've got an attribute in a tag,
            # you won't be having any text. This may or may not be a
            # good idea -- time will tell. It works for the way we are
            # currently doing XML configuration files...
            elif element.items():
                self.update({element.tag: dict(element.items())})
            # finally, if there are no child tags and no attributes, extract
            # the text
            else:
                self.update({element.tag: element.text})
           
tree = ElementTree.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()

xmldict = XmlDictConfig(root)
print xmldict

Which I get this dict:
{'stats': {'kind': 'position', 'stats': [{'kind': 'section', 'stats': 
{'kind': 'timers', 'name': 'timers', 'timer': [{'system': '65.119100', 
'user': '2531.972081', 'elapsed': '609.081574', 'name': 'totaltime', 
'description': 'Total time'}, {'elapsed': '1772.011230', 'name': 
'partialTimer', 'description': 'Gravitational Displacement'}, 
[{'elapsed': '72.418861', 'name': 'subATimer', 'description': 'Phase 
time A'}, {'elapsed': '28.285192', 'name': 'subBTimer', 'description': 
'Phase time B'}, {'elapsed': '0.000', 'name': 'spaceMem', 'description': 
'Space memory'}], {'elapsed': '607.432373', 'name': 'endTime', 
'description': 'End'}]}, 'name': 'time', 'string': {'name': 
'timersNote', 'description': 'Note:'}, 'description': 'Timing summary'}, 
[[{'current': '4833280000', 'peak': '4833280000', 'name': 'heapSpace', 
'description': 'Total Space'}, {'current': '4182777856', 'peak': 
'4182777856', 'name': 'spaceResidentSize', 'description': 'Space 
resident size'}, '1', '1943498', '0'], [{'current': '411307840', 'peak': 
'1640100156', 'name': 'geoSpace', 'description': 'Geo-Space'}, 
{'current': '1406752', 'peak': '709596712', 'name': 'gridSpace', 
'description': 'Grid-Space'}, {'current': '0', 'peak': '737720720', 
'name': 'spaceMem', 'description': 'Space memory'}, {'peak': 
'607.432373', 'name': 'endTime', 'description': 'End'}], {'current': 
'2054715622', 'peak': '5164184694', 'name': 'subsystemSpace', 
'description': 'Subsystem space  total'}]], 'name': 'position1', 
'description': 'Calculation statistics'}}

Which is kinda wrong. I expect the dict to have the "Space usage 
summary", but it doesn't (duplicate?). What am I doing wrong here?
I am attempting to keep the attribute value of an XML as key (if it 
doesn't have a value, then just the tag name will do) and associate it 
with the text value of that tag/attribute value as well as reflecting 
the hierarchy structure of the XML in the dict. Does this make sense?
Anyway, the python script above is just the first step or an example for me.
Cheers and thanks again
Astan



From python at rcn.com  Tue Feb  2 16:22:55 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:22:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <1fe7535b-34dc-46ba-9807-bd1e8cf69a9c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 12:54?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether this text
> is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any improvements that
> could be made.

To my eyes it reads nicely.  You may want to try it out on a real
beginner to get their feedback.

I like your section on assertions.  You could add examples of other
ways assertions can be used (loop invariants, sanity checks, post-
condition contract checks).  For example, validate a loop invariant
during a selection sort.  In the hypot() example, use an assertion for
sanity checking by verifying an expected mathematical relationship
such as the triangle inequality:  assert abs(c) <= abs(a) + abs(b).
The pythagorean triple example can use assertions to check post
conditions:  assert all(isinstance(x, int) for x in (a,b,c)) and a*a
+b*b==c*c.

Raymond



From andrewt.herd at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 16:25:07 2010
From: andrewt.herd at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:25:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyQt4 designer custom properties - combo box style
Message-ID: <f96f074b-69c9-4aca-8a81-483282d8f6eb@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

I am creating custom widgets for the PyQt4 Designer. I can create
custom properties, but I'm looking for how to create a custom property
that has a combo box drop down. I've seen them in the example widgets
and tried following them, but they are using pre-defined items to
populate their property, so it's not a very clear example of how to
get the combo box property to work.

Is there any other examples or help for this kind of setup?

Thanks,
Andrew


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb  2 16:29:39 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Feb 2010 13:29:39 -0800
Subject: PyPI source dependencies?
Message-ID: <hka5g3$d91$1@panix5.panix.com>

I'm trying to build PyObjC from source (because the binary doesn't work
on OSX 10.5) and I can't figure out how to get all the dependencies
downloaded automatically.  Am I missing something?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 16:35:50 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:35:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fb0882ae-ac9e-4b1c-8f81-8ba2b08eb611@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 12:40?pm, Xah Lee <xah... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
>

I think you mean hash.clear() instead of hash.clean()

The answer is that "hash = {}" will create a new dict and assign it to
"hash", while "hash.clear()" simply guts the dict that "hash" is
pointing to.

In the end, both will result in "has" pointing to an empty dict.

However, if you had something else pointing to what "hash" was
pointing to, they will no longer be pointing to the same, empty hash
after "hash = {}" is run.

>>> a = b = {1:2}
>>> a
{1: 2}
>>> b
{1: 2}
>>> a.clear()
>>> a
{}
>>> b
{}
>>> a = b = {1:2}
>>> a = {}
>>> a
{}
>>> b
{1: 2}


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Tue Feb  2 16:38:43 2010
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:38:43 +0100
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <DX0an.161462$9A6.155766@newsfe07.ams2>

Op 2010-02-02 18:02, Nobody schreef:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:00:28 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>>>> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
>>>> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
>>>> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
>>>> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
>>>> mayhem*.
>>>
>>> I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.
>>
>> I think it is.
> 
> I agree.
> 
>> There should be different syntax to import from
>> "standard" places and from "current directory".  Similar to the 
>> difference between "foo.h" and <foo.h> in cpp.
> 
> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
> than in the process' CWD.

That is what I would have expected, it is the way I would have
implemented it, and I don't understand why anyone would think
differently. Yet not everyone seems to agree.

Apparently, contrary to my expectations, Python looks in the directory
containing the currently running script instead. That means that the
behavior of "import foo" depends very much on circumstances not under
control of the module in which that statement appears. Very fragile.
Suggestions to use better names or just poor workarounds, IMO. Of the
same nature are suggestions to limit the amount of scrips/modules in a
directory... my /usr/bin contains no less than 2685 binaries, with 0
problems of name clashes; there is IMO no reason why Python should
restrict itself to any less.

Generally I like the design decisions used in Python, or at least I
understand the reasons; in this case though, I don't see the advantages
of the current approach.

-- 
The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge
faster than society gathers wisdom.
  -- Isaac Asimov

Roel Schroeven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 16:39:19 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:39:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a1ddcc5-0e2d-4c97-967d-6f6bbf0a7066@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:34?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
>
> An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines
> long, and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was
> quickly dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to
> my screen (aka gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my
> terminal *royally*.
>

In linux terminals, try running the command "reset" to clear up any
gobbledy-gook. It also works if you happen to hit CTRL-C while
entering a password, in the rare case that it fails to set the text
back to visible mode.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 16:49:39 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:49:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 2:21?am, waku <w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
> for writing new code, it's not necessarily that helpful to be *forced*
> to keep with strict indenting rules. ?in early development phases,
> code is often experimental, and parts of it may need to be blocked or
> unblocked as the codebase grows, and for experimentation, the need to
> carefully and consistently indent and de-indent large chunks of code
> can easily lead to a mess (blame it on the programmer, not the
> language, but still). ?yes, there are editors that help you indent
> chunks of code, but see below.
>
> there are languages where indentation can be either enforced and allow
> one to omit some syntactic nuissance like braces or begin-end clauses,
> or made optional, requiring other syntactic means for delimiting
> blocks etc. ?(consider f# with its #light declaration, for example.)
>

If you're writing "experimental code", you're doing it wrong. Every
line of code you write may end up on the space shuttle one day (so to
speak!) Why not write the code well-formatted in the first place, so
that any bugs you introduce are as easily visible as possible?

The only reason why you may want to write crap code without proper
formatting is because your text editor is stupid. If that's the case,
get rid of your text editor and find some tools that help you do the
right thing the first time.

>
> as long as you are limited to your own code, sure. ?but if many work
> on the same bit, and use different editors and indentation policies,
> blanks-tabs indentation issues are not unlikely. ?you can have blanks
> converted to tabs and vice versa automatically, but that's clearly a
> nuisance.
>

If you're text editor has a problem with indenting, you have a
terrible text editor. Period, end of sentence.

You can't screw in bolts with a hammer, and you can't level with a
saw. Don't try to write code in any language without a real text
editor that can do proper indentation. Don't let your teammates use
deficient text editors either. I wouldn't appreciate it if I delivered
precision components that my teammates tried to install with
sledgehammers.

This is the 21st Century. Good text editors are not hard to find on
any platform.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 16:55:09 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:55:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:21?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> You don't need to know the entire language before you can use any of it
> (if you did, Python would be deader than a certain parrot; Python's dark
> corners are *really* dark).
>

I'm curious. What dark corners are you referring to? I can't think of
any. Especially with the direction Python 3 is going, it seems like
even the slightly dim corners are being rounded away.

I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
__getattribute__, __new__ and __get__. These are the darkest corners I
know of, and these are not at all dark. It takes a few paragraphs of
documentation to explain all the details of each these features. I
hold the entire Python language in my head, and I can still remember
when my next meeting is.

Compare that to something like Haskell, where you have to read entire
books before you truly understand what monads are actually doing
behind the scenes, and how Haskell actually interprets and runs your
program, or to understand what the esoteric error messages that crop
up are actually caused be.

Yes, there are people that know how to do stuff in Haskell. These are
really smart people, the cream of the crop, so to speak. But that
doesn't make Haskell a simple language.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 17:01:01 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:01:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:36?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > One of the bad things with languages like perl
>
> FYI: the language is called Perl, the program that executes a Perl
> program is called perl.
>
> > without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> > need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
> > ?foo(); ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> > ?$bar = foo; ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
> > ?$bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
>
> It should be $bar = \&foo
> Your example actually calls foo...
>

I rest my case. I've been programming perl professionally since 2000,
and I still make stupid, newbie mistakes like that.

> > One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> > the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> > function calls with references.
>
> The syntax follows that of referencing and dereferencing:
>
> $bar = \@array; ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to array
> $bar->[ 0 ]; ? ? ? ? ?# first element of array referenced by bar
> $bar = \%hash; ? ? ? ?# bar contains now a reference to a hash
> $bar->{ key }; ? ? ? ?# value associated with key of hash ref. by bar
> $bar = \&foo; ? ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to a sub
> $bar->( 45 ); ? ? ? ? # call sub ref. by bar with 45 as an argument
>
> Consistent: yes. New syntax? No.
>

Except for the following symbols and combinations, which are entirely
new and different from the $@% that you have to know just to use
arrays and hashes.

\@, ->[ ]
\%, ->{ }
\&, ->( )

By the way:
* How do you do a hashslice on a hashref?
* How do you invoke reference to a hash that contains a reference to
an array that contains a reference to a function?

Compare with Python's syntax.

# The only way to assign
a = b

# The only way to call a function
b(...)

# The only way to access a hash or array or string or tuple
b[...]

> Also, it helps to think of
>
> $ as a thing
> @ as thingies indexed by numbers
> % as thingies indexed by keys
>

I'd rather think of the task at hand than what each of the funky
symbols on my keyboard mean.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 17:06:47 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:06:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<ZrX9n.34661$Ym4.20954@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <2a5ee10d-4da3-4275-936d-3d792f3450e3@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 7:23?am, "bartc" <ba... at freeuk.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> > without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> > need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
> > ?foo(); ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> > ?$bar = foo; ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
> > ?$bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
> > ?$bar->() ? ? # Call whatever '$bar' is pointing at with no args
>
> > Compare with python:
>
> > ?foo() ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> > ?bar = foo() # 'bar' is now pointing to whatever 'foo()' returned
> > ?bar = foo ? # 'bar' is now pointing to the same thing 'foo' points to
> > ?bar() ? ? ? # Call 'bar' with no args
>
> > One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> > the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> > function calls with references.
>
> If you get rid of the syntax specific to Perl, then having to explicitly
> obtain a function reference, or to dereference the result, is not such a big
> deal:
>
> ?foo ? ? ? ? ?# Call 'foo' with no args.
> ?bar = foo ? ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to 'bar'
> ?bar = &foo ? # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to 'bar'
> ?bar^ ? ? ? ? # Call whatever 'bar' is pointing at with no args
>
> (Here I use ^ instead of -> to dereference.) ?Compared with Python, it saves
> 3 lots of (), but needs & and ^ added. Still a net saving.
>

On one shoulder, a demon taunts the programmer: "Ohmygosh, you can
save three keystrokes if you introduce an entirely new syntax with odd
squiggles that make no pronounceable sound in the English language!
Perhaps one day, you can program APL in Python!"

The angel that sits on the other shoulder says, "Alas, poor
programmer, one day, you'll have to read that and understand it. And
heaven help us when we hire a poor college graduate to maintain the
code we wrote five years ago. Or worse, when that poor college
graduate writes code and expects us to read it!"

Thankfully, Guido has banished that demon from the realm of Python a
long time ago.


> > One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> > without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious.
>
> I'd say that having this "&" symbol in front of "foo" makes it more obvious
> than just foo by itself. But I agree not quite as clean.
>
> Another thing is that you have to know whether "bar" is a function, or a
> function ref, and use the appropriate syntax. Sometimes this is helpful,
> sometimes not.
>

Thankfully, in Python, everything is a ref, so everything is
consistent.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 17:09:38 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:09:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.48.19.187000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <88cc29b2-cc2e-4e02-91dc-073be8216f61@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:50?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:13:38 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > I judge a language's simplicity by how long it takes to explain the
> > complete language. That is, what minimal set of documentation do you
> > need to describe all of the language?
>
> That's not a particularly good metric, IMHO.
>
> A simple "core" language doesn't necessarily make a language simple to
> use. You can explain the entirety of pure lambda calculus or combinators
> in five minutes, but you wouldn't want to write real code in either (and
> you certainly wouldn't want to read such code which was written by someone
> else).
>
> For a start, languages with a particularly simple "core" tend to delegate
> too much to the library. One thing which puts a lot of people off of
> lisp is the lack of infix operators; after all, (* 2 (+ 3 4)) works fine
> and doesn't require any additional language syntax. For an alternative,
> Tcl provides the "expr" function which essentially provides a sub-language
> for arithmetic expressions.
>
> A better metric is whether using N features has O(N) complexity, or O(N^2)
> (where you have to understand how each feature relates to each other
> feature) or even O(2^N) (where you have to understand every possible
> combination of interactions).
>
> > With a handful of statements,
> > and a very short list of operators, Python beats out every language in
> > the Algol family that I know of.
>
> Not once you move beyond the 10-minute introduction, and have to start
> thinking in terms of x + y is x.__add__(y) or maybe y.__radd__(x) and also
> that x.__add__(y) is x.__getattribute__('__add__')(y) (but x + y *isn't*
> equivalent to the latter due to __slots__), and maybe .__coerce__() gets
> involved somewhere, and don't even get me started on __metaclass__ or
> __init__ versus __new__ or ...
>
> Yes, the original concept was very nice and clean, but everything since
> then has been wedged in there by sheer force with a bloody great hammer.

I strongly suggest you read the documentation on these bits of Python.
If you're scared of __new__ versus __init__, then you haven't been
programming very long in any language. There is a case when you need
one over the other. The same goes for the other concepts.

Programming languages that don't provide these features (like
Javascript) are nice for toy programs, but lack the power to
accommodate the needs of large apps.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb  2 17:21:13 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:21:13 +1100
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87mxzrp9d2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> Compare with Python's syntax.
>
> # The only way to assign
> a = b
>
> # The only way to call a function
> b(...)
>
> # The only way to access a hash or array or string or tuple
> b[...]

For all of your examples, there are other ways supported. I do wish this
focus on ?only way? would depart, it's a fallacy and not helpful.

What is important (and supports the main point of your message) is that
for each of the above, whether or not they are the only way, they are
the one *obvious* way to do the operation.

-- 
 \           ?The cost of education is trivial compared to the cost of |
  `\                                     ignorance.? ?Thomas Jefferson |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From chairman at python.org  Tue Feb  2 17:23:43 2010
From: chairman at python.org (Steve Holden, Chairman, PSF)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:23:43 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B68A5EF.7040100@python.org>

Xah Lee wrote:
> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
> freenode.net.
> 
> Here's a log:
> 
> 2010-02-02
> 
> (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL | http://pound-python.org/
> | It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
> http://paste.pocoo.org/ | Tutorial: http://docs.python.org/tut/ | FAQ:
> http://effbot.org/pyfaq/ | New Programmer? Read http://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
> | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
> #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
> offtopic
> (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
> actually.
> (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
> (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
> (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
> etc) right is quite tricky
> (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
> wondering whats up with the python verison :D
> (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)
> 
> ---------------
> 
> I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
> 2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
> freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.
> 
>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/
> 
> ?

Frankly, Xah Lee, I find it ironic that you see fit to complain about
abuse of the IRC channel when you have apparently felt free to ignore
the many complaints about your behavior on this and other newsgroups
over many years.

"As ye sew, so shall ye reap". I imagine that your reputation has
preceded you, and that dash (whom I *do* know) is simply looking to keep
a well-known nuisance from bothering the rest of the users on the channel.

For the present my sympathies are all with him. The PSF will, however,
investigate this issue and I will report back to you off-list in due course.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden        Chairman, Python Software Foundation
The Python Community Conference   http://python.org/psf/
PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21        http://us.pycon.org/
Watch PyCon on video now!          http://pycon.blip.tv/


From hnine at isis.vanderbilt.edu  Tue Feb  2 17:38:00 2010
From: hnine at isis.vanderbilt.edu (Harmon Nine)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:38:00 -0600
Subject: Calling a "raw" python function from C++
Message-ID: <7AB1C26C64423249964AB392C6EBF0E0049D4394@discovery.isis.vanderbilt.edu>

Hello.
 
I've been crawling the web for an answer to this one, but have come up
empty.
 
We can currently only use Boost 1.36 for our project, i.e. we are having
problems using later versions of Boost.  We are using Boost.Python to
interface with Cheetah.
 
Problem:
In Boost 1.36, how do you call a "raw" method of a python class from
C++?  In particular, what C++ code is needed to call a "raw
constructor", i.e. a constructor that can take an arbitrary number of
positional and keyword arguments by using *args, **kwargs?
 
For instance, this is defined in a ".py" file.
 
class Gain:
   def __init__( self, *args, **kwargs ):
   ...
 
 
In C++ we have (where "gainClass" is the Gain class above referenced
from C++):
-----
namespace bp = boost::python;
 
bp::object gainObject = gainClass( /* what goes here to call the above
Gain constructor? */ );
-----
 
Passing a tuple and a dict doesn't work.  I wish we could use the most
recent version of Boost, since in this you can just do this:
-----
bp::object gainObject = gainClass( *bp::tuple(), **bp::dict() );
-----
But this is not available in Boost 1.36
 
TIA
-- Harmon
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 17:43:07 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:43:07 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <DX0an.161462$9A6.155766@newsfe07.ams2>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com> 
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com> 
	<DX0an.161462$9A6.155766@newsfe07.ams2>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002021443i50111efaia261872130364082@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Roel Schroeven <
rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Apparently, contrary to my expectations, Python looks in the directory
> containing the currently running script instead. That means that the
> behavior of "import foo" depends very much on circumstances not under
> control of the module in which that statement appears. Very fragile.
> Suggestions to use better names or just poor workarounds, IMO. Of the
> same nature are suggestions to limit the amount of scrips/modules in a
> directory... my /usr/bin contains no less than 2685 binaries, with 0
> problems of name clashes; there is IMO no reason why Python should
> restrict itself to any less.
>
> Generally I like the design decisions used in Python, or at least I
> understand the reasons; in this case though, I don't see the advantages
> of the current approach.


This really isn't anything new, novel, or even interesting. Its been known
forever that Python searches the script's directory for other scripts,
there's reasons for this.

Its also been known forever that its not really an ideal situation, and so
over the last seven or so years, Python's been working on fixing it.

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/

In 2.5, you could activate your modules to use absolute imports by default,
thus requiring you to use special syntax to access modules in your own
path.

In 2.6, relative imports of modules in the same dir (thus, possible
shadowing modules) raises a deprecation warning.

In Python 3+, you have to use the explicit syntax to get at modules in the
current directory.

This has taken years to address, yeah, because touching the import machinery
is -dangerous-; you have to do it very carefully to be sure that vast
amounts of code doesn't break that's relying on the existing,
not-entirely-well-documented-or-defined mechanics.

Why was Python designed like this? Ask Guido. I don't know, but I'm not
surprised: python was always very /flat/ originally. Strict, flat scopes,
didn't even have packages, etc. Its slowly gotten a little more nested /
deeper over time-- from limited nested scoping (only for enclosing
functions), to now absolute imports being default.

Its a slow process seeking a delicate balance; "flat is better then nested"
vs "namespaces are one honking great idea" are somewhat contradictory, after
all :)

--S
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  2 17:47:19 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:47:19 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkaa1n$t3h$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/2/2010 2:43 PM, kj wrote:
> In<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list at python.org>  Terry Reedy<tjreedy at udel.edu>  writes:
>
>> On 2/2/2010 9:13 AM, kj wrote:
>
>>>> As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
>>>> breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
>>>> was missed.
>>>
>>> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
>>> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
>>> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
>>> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
>>> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
>>> the deliberations I'm looking for.)
>
>> There was a proposal to put the whole stdlib into a gigantic package, so
>> that
>
>> import itertools
>
>> would become, for instance
>
>> import std.itertools.
>
>> Guido rejected that. I believe he both did not like it and was concerned
>> about making upgrade to 3.x even harder. The discussion was probably on
>> the now closed py3k list.
>
>
> Thanks.  I'll look for this thread.

Stephen Hansen's post explains a bit more than I did. To supplement his 
explanation: since print *was* a keyword, every use of 'print' in 2.x 
denotes a print statement with standard semantics. Therefore 2to3 
*knows* what the statement means and can translate it. On the other 
hand, 'import string' usually means 'import the string module of the 
stdlib', but it could mean 'import my string module'. This depends on 
the execution environment. Moreover, I believe people have intentionally 
shadowed stdlib modules. So. like it or not, 2to3 cannot know what 
'import string' means.

Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  2 17:54:51 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: lists as an efficient implementation of large two-dimensional
	arrays(!)
In-Reply-To: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
References: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
Message-ID: <hkaafr$umi$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/2/2010 3:14 PM, Mitchell L Model wrote:

> I need a 1000 x 1000 two-dimensional array of objects.

I would just use 1000 element list, with each element being a 1000 
element list or array (if possible). Then l2d[i][j] works fine.



From nagle at animats.com  Tue Feb  2 18:02:49 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:02:49 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
Message-ID: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

    I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate
if the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time,
but it's worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to
a lame locking implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded
code on a dual-core CPU runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core
CPU, according to Beasley.

    My main server application, which runs "sitetruth.com"
has both multiple processes and multiple threads in each process.
The system rates web sites, which involves reading and parsing
up to 20 pages from each domain.  Analysis of each domain is
performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.

    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
they parse web pages.  Sometimes two threads (but never more than three)
in the same process may be parsing web pages at the same time, so
they're contending for CPU time.

    So this is nearly the worst case for the lame GIL lock logic.
Has anyone tried using "affinity" ("http://pypi.python.org/pypi/affinity")
to lock each Python process to a single CPU?  Does that help?

				John Nagle


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  2 18:05:30 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:05:30 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <87mxzrp9d2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>	<2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<87mxzrp9d2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4B68AFBA.2070008@holdenweb.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> 
>> Compare with Python's syntax.
>>
>> # The only way to assign
>> a = b
>>
>> # The only way to call a function
>> b(...)
>>
>> # The only way to access a hash or array or string or tuple
>> b[...]
> 
> For all of your examples, there are other ways supported. I do wish this
> focus on ?only way? would depart, it's a fallacy and not helpful.
> 
And besides which most people get the quote wrong. The "authoritative"
version from the Zen is, as you clearly already know

  There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.

> What is important (and supports the main point of your message) is that
> for each of the above, whether or not they are the only way, they are
> the one *obvious* way to do the operation.
> 

Quite.

People might be interested to know the history of the Zen, which I got
directly from Tim Peters over lunch one day. It was composed,
apparently, during the commercial breaks one evening while he was
watching professional wrestling on the television!

So it's wise not to take the Zen too seriously. It wasn't written to
guide, but to amuse. The fact that it can do both is a testament to
Tim's sagacity.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb  2 18:07:05 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Feb 2010 15:07:05 -0800
Subject: Need help with a program
References: <96db4cd6-bda3-42db-a592-83d72e517e2d@28g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<a3ddc086-7cfa-4853-9a2c-28abf374dc66@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4B61CE0E.5000801@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1551.1264701475.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkab6p$jk6$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1551.1264701475.28905.python-list at python.org>,
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
>
>If you have a problem and you think that regular expressions are the
>solution then now you have two problems.  Regex is really overkill for
>the OP's problem and it certainly doesn't improve readability.

If you're going to use a quote, it works better if you use the exact
quote and attribute it:

'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
regular expressions."  Now they have two problems.' --Jamie Zawinski
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 18:07:47 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:07:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1ee94353-24aa-48a9-a7e2-474149ae0f7c@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 5:01?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 1, 6:36?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > > One of the bad things with languages like perl
>
> > FYI: the language is called Perl, the program that executes a Perl
> > program is called perl.
>
> > > without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> > > need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
> > > ?foo(); ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> > > ?$bar = foo; ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
> > > ?$bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
>
> > It should be $bar = \&foo
> > Your example actually calls foo...
>
> I rest my case. I've been programming perl professionally since 2000,
> and I still make stupid, newbie mistakes like that.
>
> > > One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> > > the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> > > function calls with references.
>
> > The syntax follows that of referencing and dereferencing:
>
> > $bar = \@array; ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to array
> > $bar->[ 0 ]; ? ? ? ? ?# first element of array referenced by bar
> > $bar = \%hash; ? ? ? ?# bar contains now a reference to a hash
> > $bar->{ key }; ? ? ? ?# value associated with key of hash ref. by bar
> > $bar = \&foo; ? ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to a sub
> > $bar->( 45 ); ? ? ? ? # call sub ref. by bar with 45 as an argument
>
> > Consistent: yes. New syntax? No.
>
> Except for the following symbols and combinations, which are entirely
> new and different from the $@% that you have to know just to use
> arrays and hashes.
>
> \@, ->[ ]
> \%, ->{ }
> \&, ->( )
>
> By the way:
> * How do you do a hashslice on a hashref?
> * How do you invoke reference to a hash that contains a reference to
> an array that contains a reference to a function?
>
> Compare with Python's syntax.
>
> # The only way to assign
> a = b

>>> locals().__setitem__('a', 'b')
>>> print a
b

> # The only way to call a function
> b(...)

>>> def b(a):
...    print a*2
>>> apply(b, (3,))
6

> # The only way to access a hash or array or string or tuple
> b[...]

>>> b={}
>>> b[1] = 'a'
>>> print b.__getitem__(1)
a




From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Feb  2 18:24:59 2010
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:24:59 -0000
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20100202232459.26099.2057701829.divmod.xquotient.97@localhost.localdomain>

On 11:02 pm, nagle at animats.com wrote:
>    I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
>multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
>("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate
>if the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time,
>but it's worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to
>a lame locking implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded
>code on a dual-core CPU runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core
>CPU, according to Beasley.

It's not clear that Beasley's performance numbers apply to any platform 
except OS X, which has a particularly poor implementation of the 
threading primitives CPython uses to implement the GIL.

You should check to see if it actually applies to your deployment 
environment.

The GIL has been re-implemented recently.  Python 3.2, I think, will 
include the new implementation, which should bring OS X performance up 
to the level of other platforms.  It may also improve certain other 
aspects of thread switching.

Jean-Paul


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  2 18:30:17 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:30:17 -0300
Subject: Problems embedding python 2.6 in C++
References: <5089497e1002011321h5328ed68y4bfab055f627ba74@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7g0tijgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<5089497e1002012126h55f0611ct476eabb0ccf1bea1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7iwwrmix6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:26:57 -0300, Paul <gobladoome at gmail.com> escribi?:

> I've managed to get it working and so far stable...

Glad to see you finally made it work!

> Current working version:
>   [...]
>  mycppclass::callpy(funcname, args...)
>       m_mypymodule = PyImport_Import(pModuleName)
>
>       pyargs = PyTuple_SetItem * args
>       PyCallable_Check(func)
>       PyObject_CallObject(func,pyargs)
>
>       Py_XDECREF(m_mypymodule)
>
> So now the module is being imported each function call (luckily I don't  
> have
> to worry about performance)

Remember that after the module is successfully imported by the first time,  
a subsequent import returns early, as soon as it finds the module in  
sys.modules[] -- the performance penalty shouldn't be so big.

> I assume this means that the internal representation of the imported  
> module
> is being corrupted by something. I found another person with a similar  
> issue
> here:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043306.html -  
> that is
> a long time ago but another multi-threaded app.

> I'm happy to use the working method but I'd like to understand what is  
> going
> on a bit more. Can anyone shed any further light?

Sorry, I cannot help on this. Seems to happen only with an embedded  
interpreter and a multithreaded application, and I've never used Python in  
that scenario.

If you could trim your code to a minimal example that shows the faulty  
behavior, that would be great, so others can test it too and eventually  
determine what's going on.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From irmen-NOSPAM- at xs4all.nl  Tue Feb  2 19:36:38 2010
From: irmen-NOSPAM- at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:36:38 +0100
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
In-Reply-To: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b68c4c0$0$22920$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 2-2-2010 21:54, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving
> into the details of the Python language.
>

Alf,
I think it's a good read so far. I just don't like the smilies that 
occur in the text. It's a book (or article) that I'm reading, not an 
instant messaging conversation.

Irmen


From bartc at freeuk.com  Tue Feb  2 20:01:29 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:01:29 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <2a5ee10d-4da3-4275-936d-3d792f3450e3@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<ZrX9n.34661$Ym4.20954@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<2a5ee10d-4da3-4275-936d-3d792f3450e3@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <JV3an.34909$Ym4.20584@text.news.virginmedia.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 2, 7:23 am, "bartc" <ba... at freeuk.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>> One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
>>> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious.
>>> You need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>> 
>>> foo(); # Call 'foo' with no args.
...
>> If you get rid of the syntax specific to Perl, then having to
>> explicitly obtain a function reference, or to dereference the
>> result, is not such a big deal:
>> 
>> foo # Call 'foo' with no args.
>> bar = foo # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to 'bar'
>> bar = &foo # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to 'bar'
>> bar^ # Call whatever 'bar' is pointing at with no args
>> 
>> (Here I use ^ instead of -> to dereference.) Compared with Python,
>> it saves 3 lots of (), but needs & and ^ added. Still a net saving.
>> 
> 
> On one shoulder, a demon taunts the programmer: "Ohmygosh, you can
> save three keystrokes if you introduce an entirely new syntax with odd
> squiggles that make no pronounceable sound in the English language!
> Perhaps one day, you can program APL in Python!"
... 
> Thankfully, Guido has banished that demon from the realm of Python a
> long time ago.

You mean & (bitwise AND in Python) and ^ (bitwise XOR in Python)?

:-)

-- 
Bartc




From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  2 20:06:49 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:06:49 -0500
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
In-Reply-To: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkai7o$kvn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving
> into the details of the Python language.
> 
> It's just a few pages yet, file [03 asd.pdf] (no real title yet!) at
> <url: http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> which is at Google Docs.
> 
> The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether
> this text is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any
> improvements that could be made.
> 
I don't think it's helpful in Python to refer to "... variables, which
are named locations in memory, ..." because Python specifically eschews
this model, and trying to explain assignment (especially of mutable
objects) in those terms will lead to conceptual difficulties.

Also, why introduce exceptions by talking about "error handling" when
the term "exception handling" is hanging in the air? This is also a
conceptual thing, since you want to get the reader used to the idea that
it's a legitimate programming technique to use exceptions as part of
their programs' normal control flow.

I'd also recommend taking docstrings a little more seriously, since
their use makes code much more self-documenting - someone can import
your module and learn its API using the help() function. You may have
done that in an earlier chapter.

Just a few points for you to think about, and reject if you choose.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From peter.milliken at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 20:21:14 2010
From: peter.milliken at gmail.com (Peter)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:21:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <e0382c1d-b933-4ad4-95b8-3233bf5456bc@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 7:54?am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving into the
> details of the Python language.
>
> It's just a few pages yet, file [03 asd.pdf] (no real title yet!) at <url:http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> which is at Google Docs.
>
> The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether this text
> is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any improvements that
> could be made.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf

The only issue I have with what is there is the example - most
programmers are not interested in solving mathematical equations and
the code is enough to make the reader go cross-eyed. IMO the example
code tends to detract from the point you are trying to make about
using and how to use assertions.

I would suggest a much simpler (to read) example than the one given.
Ideally I would like to see more than one example with the examples
graded from simple to more complex. A simple example could be just
using the assert statement to verify pre-condition (assumptions) made
on parameters to a function i.e.

def divide (x, y):
  return x / y

The programmer obviously assumed that y will never be 0 - so with one
simple example you teach two points:

1. how an assert can be used
2. when programming look for unconscious assumptions

Peter

P.S. You also raise an interesting issue in my mind when quoting Knuth
and siting TeX as an example application with no known bugs - Knuth
advocated and used literate programming when writing TeX to achieve
"clarity". I believe he (still?) cites the fact that TeX is so bug
free because he used Literate Programming to write it (well, at least
one reason). So should we be trying to teach literate programming to
beginners? You did open that can of worms by quoting and siting Knuth
and TeX... :-)


From xahlee at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 20:28:10 2010
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:28:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
Message-ID: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

just wrote this essay. Comment & feedback very welcome.

Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages

Xah Lee, 2010-02-02

In Python, there are 2 ways to clear a hash: ?myHash = {}? and
?myHash.clear()?. What is the difference?
?

The difference is that ?myHash={}? simply creates a new empty hash and
assigns to myHash, while ?myHash.clear()? actually clear the hash the
myHash is pointing to.

What does that mean?? Here's a code that illustrates:

# python
# 2 ways to clear hash and their difference
aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
bb = aa
aa = {}
print bb # prints {'a': 3, 'b': 4}

aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
bb = aa
aa.clear()
print bb # prints {}

This is like this because of the ?reference? concept. The opposite
alternative, is that everything is a copy, for example in most
functional langs. (with respect to programer-visible behavior, not how
it is implemented)

>From the aspect of the relation of the language source code to the
program behavior by the source code, this ?reference?-induced behavior
is similar to dynamic scope vs lexicol scope. The former being un-
intuitive and hard to understand the latter more intuitive and clear.
The former requires the lang to have a internal model of the language,
the latter more correspond to source code WYSIWYG. The former being
easy to implement and is in early langs, the latter being more popular
today.

As with many languages that have concept of references, or pointers,
this is a complexity that hampers programing progress. The concept of
using some sort of ?reference? as part of the language is due to
implementation efficiency. Starting with C and others in 1960s up to
1990s. But as time went on, this concept in computer languages are
gradually disappearing, as they should.

Other langs that have this ?reference? concept as ESSENTIAL part of
the semantic of the language, includes: C, C++, Java, Perl, Common
Lisp. (of course, each using different terminologies, and each lang
faction will gouge the other faction's eyes out about what is the true
meaning of terms like ?reference?, ?object?, ?list/sequence/vector/
array/hash?, and absolutely pretend other meanings do not exist.
(partly due to, their ignorance of langs other than their own, partly,
due to male power struggle nature.))

Languages that do not have any ?reference? or ?object?, or otherwise
does not require the programer to have some internal model of source
code, are: Mathematica, JavaScript, PHP. (others may include TCL,
possibly assembly langs.)

For some detail on this, see: Jargons And High Level Languages and
Hardware Modeled Computer Languages.

---------------------------

(perm url of this essay can be found on my website.)

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  2 20:42:18 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 01:42:18 GMT
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1779.1265099894.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:38:07 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

>> I like seeing them in the same place as the source file, because when I
>> start developing a module, I often end up renaming it multiple times
>> before it settles on a final name. When I rename or move it, I delete
>> the .pyc file, and that ensures that if I miss changing an import, and
>> try to import the old name, it will fail.
>>
>> By hiding the .pyc file elsewhere, it is easy to miss deleting one, and
>> then the import won't fail, it will succeed, but use the old, obsolete
>> byte code.
> 
> 
> Okay, I see your point but I think your argument about importing shows
> that python is doing something suboptimal because I have to worry about
> .pyc files. Ideally, I only would need to worry about python source
> files.

That's no different from any language that is compiled: you have to worry 
about keeping the compiled code (byte code or machine language) in sync 
with the source code.

Python does most of that for you: it automatically recompiles the source 
whenever the source code's last modified date stamp is newer than that of 
the byte code. So to a first approximation you can forget all about 
the .pyc files and just care about the source.

But that's only a first approximation. You might care about the .pyc 
files if:

(1) you want to distribute your application in a non-human readable 
format;

(2) if you care about clutter in your file system;

(3) if you suspect a bug in the compiler;

(4) if you are working with byte-code hacks;

(5) if the clock on your PC is wonky;

(6) if you leave random .pyc files floating around earlier in the 
PYTHONPATH than your source files;

etc.




> There is now a chance to 'fix' (quotation marks because maybe
> there is nothing to fix, according to some) this issue and make all pyc
> files go away and having python magically doing the right thing.

Famous last words... 

The only ways I can see to have Python magically do the right thing in 
all cases would be:

(1) Forget about byte-code compiling, and just treat Python as a purely 
interpreted language. If you think Python is slow now... 

(2) Compile as we do now, but only keep the byte code in memory. This 
would avoid all worries about scattered .pyc files, but would slow Python 
down significantly *and* reduce functionality (e.g. losing the ability to 
distribute non-source files).

Neither of these are seriously an option.


> A
> central pyc repository would be something I was thinking about, but I
> admit it's a half baked or not even that, probably quarter baked idea.

A central .pyc repository doesn't eliminate the issues developers may 
have with byte code files, it just puts them somewhere else, out of 
sight, where they are more likely to bite.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  2 20:49:17 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 01:49:17 GMT
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.01.49.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> I did not propose obvious module names.  I said obvious names like
> email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are better.

But surely send_email.py doesn't just send email, it parses email and 
receives email as well?


-- 
Steven



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  2 20:56:36 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:56:36 -0300
Subject: unable to catch this exception
References: <hk91ob$hql$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7i3omhox6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:20:34 -0300, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Exception in thread Thread-9 (most likely raised during interpreter  
> shutdown):
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 617, in ssh_connect
> <type 'exceptions.AttributeError'>: 'NoneType' object has no attribute  
> 'BadAuthenticationType'

So you started several threads, and one of them was in them middle of  
connecting to somewhere when the program exited, correct?

> This happens on interpreter shutdown, even though I do try to catch the  
> AttributeError exception:
>
> try:
>      fake = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
>      try:
>          self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username,  
> key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
>          loginsuccess = True
>      except paramiko.BadAuthenticationType, e: # this is line 617
>          self.conerror = str(e)
>      except paramiko.SSHException, e:
>          self.conerror = str(e)
>      except socket.timeout, e:
>          self.conerror = str(e)
>      except socket.error, e:
>          self.conerror = str(e)
> except AttributeError:
>      # this happens on interpreter shutdown
>      self.conerror = 'shutdown'
>
>
> It's clear what happens: paramiko gets its attributes cleared or the  
> module perhaps gets unloaded and as result "paramiko" label leads to  
> None, which obviously has no attribute BadAuthenticationType.

As part of the interpreter shutdown procedure, module globals are set to  
None. Code that might be executed in those very precarious circumstances  
should NOT reference any globals.

> However, even though this is surrounded by try .. except AttributeError  
> block, it evidently isn't catch. How to catch that exception? Or at  
> least preven displaying this message?

You could keep a local reference to those global names; by example, by  
adding 'fake' default arguments:

     def ssh_connect(self, other, arguments,
           paramiko=paramiko, socket=socket):
        ...

or perhaps:

     def ssh_connect(self, other, arguments):
        BadAuthenticationType = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
        socket_timeout = socket.timeout
        try:
            ...
        except BadAuthenticationType, e:
            ...
        except socket_timeout, e:
            ...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 21:02:09 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:02:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1e88a2b7-089c-41d0-aadd-38f8586e2466@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 9:02?am, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> ? ? I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
> multicore CPU, but how bad is it? ?I've read the key paper
> ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.

It's a shame that Python 3.x is dead to you, otherwise you'd be able
to enjoy the new GIL implementation in 3.2: http://www.dabeaz.com/python/NewGIL.pdf

Actually, it looks like you probably still can:
 + patch for 2.5.4: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/109929
 + patch for 2.7? http://bugs.python.org/issue7753

(Can't comment on affinity, though, sorry)


From no.email at please.post  Tue Feb  2 21:35:55 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:35:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkaneb$1ti$1@reader2.panix.com>



(For reasons I don't understand Stephen Hansen's posts don't show
in my news server.  I became aware of his reply from a passing
reference in one of Terry Reedy's post.  Then I found Hansen's post
online, and then an earlier one, and pasted the relevant portion
below.)



> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.

...*if* you happen to be clairvoyant.  I still don't see how the rest of us
could have followed this fine principle in the case of numbers.py
prior to Python 2.6.

> Secondly, I use packages structuring my libraries, and avoid junk
> directories of a hundred some odd 'scripts'.

<small>(I feel so icky now...)</small>

> Third, I don't execute scripts in that directory structure directly, but
> instead do python -c 'from package.blah import main; main.main()' or some
> such. Usually via some short-cut, or a runner batch file.

Breathtaking...  I wonder why the Python documentation, in particular
the official Python tutorial, is not more forthcoming with these
rules.

~K


From no.email at please.post  Tue Feb  2 21:36:49 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:36:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkang1$1ti$2@reader2.panix.com>

In <mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list at python.org> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>On 2/2/2010 2:43 PM, kj wrote:
>> In<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list at python.org>  Terry Reedy<tjreedy at udel.edu>  writes:
>>
>>> On 2/2/2010 9:13 AM, kj wrote:
>>
>>>>> As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
>>>>> breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
>>>>> was missed.
>>>>
>>>> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
>>>> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
>>>> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
>>>> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
>>>> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
>>>> the deliberations I'm looking for.)
>>
>>> There was a proposal to put the whole stdlib into a gigantic package, so
>>> that
>>
>>> import itertools
>>
>>> would become, for instance
>>
>>> import std.itertools.
>>
>>> Guido rejected that. I believe he both did not like it and was concerned
>>> about making upgrade to 3.x even harder. The discussion was probably on
>>> the now closed py3k list.
>>
>>
>> Thanks.  I'll look for this thread.

>Stephen Hansen's post explains a bit more than I did. To supplement his 
>explanation: since print *was* a keyword, every use of 'print' in 2.x 
>denotes a print statement with standard semantics. Therefore 2to3 
>*knows* what the statement means and can translate it. On the other 
>hand, 'import string' usually means 'import the string module of the 
>stdlib', but it could mean 'import my string module'. This depends on 
>the execution environment. Moreover, I believe people have intentionally 
>shadowed stdlib modules. So. like it or not, 2to3 cannot know what 
>'import string' means.

Thanks, this dispels some of the mystery.

~K


From harry.python at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 21:42:05 2010
From: harry.python at gmail.com (gashero)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:42:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: libpcap and python
References: <mailman.1726.1265028424.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94d87bff-ec51-48c7-80c8-2ef7320f75da@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On 2?1?, ??8?47?, Mag Gam <magaw... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I used tcpdump to capture data on my network. I would like to analyze
> the data using python -- currently using ethereal and wireshark.
>
> I would like to get certain type of packets (I can get the hex code
> for them), what is the best way to do this? Lets say I want to capture
> all events of `ping localhost`
>
> TIA

You need python module "pypcap" or "pcapy" to capture the packet, and
the you can use Python to analyze it.
To decode the internet packet you can use "dpkt".

Good Luck!


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Tue Feb  2 21:46:59 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:46:59 +1100
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
In-Reply-To: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1265165219.2711.13.camel@durian>


> On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 17:28 -0800, Xah Lee wrote:

I know, I know, do not feed the trolls.  But this is just so *wrong*
that I can't help myself.

> In Python, there are 2 ways to clear a hash:

No, no there's not.  There's one way to clear a hash and there's one way
to assign a new object to a variable.

>  ?myHash = {}? and
> ?myHash.clear()?. What is the difference?
> The difference is that ?myHash={}? simply creates a new empty hash and
> assigns to myHash, while ?myHash.clear()? actually clear the hash the
> myHash is pointing to.
> 
> What does that mean?? Here's a code that illustrates:
> 
> # python
> # 2 ways to clear hash and their difference
> aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
> bb = aa
> aa = {}
> print bb # prints {'a': 3, 'b': 4}
> 
> aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
> bb = aa
> aa.clear()
> print bb # prints {}
> 
> This is like this because of the ?reference? concept.

...snip inane babble...

> Languages that do not have any ?reference? or ?object?, or otherwise
> does not require the programer to have some internal model of source
> code, are: Mathematica, JavaScript, PHP. (others may include TCL,
> possibly assembly langs.)


Just so we're all clear exactly how much thought has gone into this
little rant, here's a transcript from a JavaScript session:

  var aa = {};
  var bb = aa;
  aa.hello = "world";
  alert(bb.hello)  -->  "world"
  delete bb.hello
  alert(aa.hello)  -->  "undefined"

OMFG, references!!

Come to think of it, the JavaScript and Python object models are really
very similar.  I'm genuinely curious now - what little sprinkle of magic
fairy dust has earned JavaScript objects the Xah Lee seal of approval
while Python objects miss out?


   Ryan




-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb  2 22:29:57 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:29:57 -0800
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1812.1265165232.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xiqafro7e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ryan Kelly <ryan at rfk.id.au> writes:
> I know, I know, do not feed the trolls.  But this is just so *wrong*
> that I can't help myself.

See: http://xkcd.com/386/


From xahlee at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 22:36:38 2010
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:36:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1812.1265165232.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c1da0425-67b7-48d2-8db0-a3f30da7953c@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

 ()On Feb 2, 6:46?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 17:28 -0800, Xah Lee wrote:
>
> I know, I know, do not feed the trolls. ?But this is just so *wrong*
> that I can't help myself.
>
> > In Python, there are 2 ways to clear a hash:
>
> No, no there's not. ?There's one way to clear a hash and there's one way
> to assign a new object to a variable.
>
>
>
>
>
> > ??myHash = {}? and
> > ?myHash.clear()?. What is the difference?
> > The difference is that ?myHash={}? simply creates a new empty hash and
> > assigns to myHash, while ?myHash.clear()? actually clear the hash the
> > myHash is pointing to.
>
> > What does that mean?? Here's a code that illustrates:
>
> > # python
> > # 2 ways to clear hash and their difference
> > aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
> > bb = aa
> > aa = {}
> > print bb # prints {'a': 3, 'b': 4}
>
> > aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
> > bb = aa
> > aa.clear()
> > print bb # prints {}
>
> > This is like this because of the ?reference? concept.
>
> ...snip inane babble...
>
> > Languages that do not have any ?reference? or ?object?, or otherwise
> > does not require the programer to have some internal model of source
> > code, are: Mathematica, JavaScript, PHP. (others may include TCL,
> > possibly assembly langs.)
>
> Just so we're all clear exactly how much thought has gone into this
> little rant, here's a transcript from a JavaScript session:
>
> ? var aa = {};
> ? var bb = aa;
> ? aa.hello = "world";
> ? alert(bb.hello) ?--> ?"world"
> ? delete bb.hello
> ? alert(aa.hello) ?--> ?"undefined"
>
> OMFG, references!!
>
> Come to think of it, the JavaScript and Python object models are really
> very similar. ?I'm genuinely curious now - what little sprinkle of magic
> fairy dust has earned JavaScript objects the Xah Lee seal of approval
> while Python objects miss out?

Thanks. You are right. I think i put JavaScript there without much
thinking.

 Xah


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  2 22:53:44 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:53:44 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hkaneb$1ti$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkaneb$1ti$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkas0p$a2s$1@ger.gmane.org>

kj wrote:
> 
> (For reasons I don't understand Stephen Hansen's posts don't show
> in my news server.  I became aware of his reply from a passing
> reference in one of Terry Reedy's post.  Then I found Hansen's post
> online, and then an earlier one, and pasted the relevant portion
> below.)
> 
> 
> 
>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
> 
> ...*if* you happen to be clairvoyant.  I still don't see how the rest of us
> could have followed this fine principle in the case of numbers.py
> prior to Python 2.6.
> 
Clearly the more you know about the standard library the less likely
this is to be a problem. Had you been migrqating from an earlier version
 the breakage would have alerted you to look for some version-dependent
difference.

>> Secondly, I use packages structuring my libraries, and avoid junk
>> directories of a hundred some odd 'scripts'.
> 
> <small>(I feel so icky now...)</small>
> 
Be as flippant as you like, but that is good advice.

>> Third, I don't execute scripts in that directory structure directly, but
>> instead do python -c 'from package.blah import main; main.main()' or some
>> such. Usually via some short-cut, or a runner batch file.
> 
> Breathtaking...  I wonder why the Python documentation, in particular
> the official Python tutorial, is not more forthcoming with these
> rules.
> 
Because despite the fact that this issue has clearly bitten you badly
enough to sour you against the language, such issues are remarkably rare
in practice and normally rather easier to debug.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 22:55:15 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:55:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.49.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <8104faf3-c4ea-4b1f-8316-f8b17f53554b@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 5:49?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> > I did not propose obvious module names. ?I said obvious names like
> > email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are better.
>
> But surely send_email.py doesn't just send email, it parses email and
> receives email as well?

No, it doesn't.


Carl Banks


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb  2 23:03:08 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:03:08 +1300
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1812.1265165232.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7xiqafro7e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hkasht$im4$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Ryan Kelly <ryan at rfk.id.au> writes:
>> I know, I know, do not feed the trolls.  But this is just so *wrong*
>> that I can't help myself.
> 
> See: http://xkcd.com/386/

:-)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  2 23:52:42 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 04:52:42 GMT
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.49.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<8104faf3-c4ea-4b1f-8316-f8b17f53554b@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.04.52.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:55:15 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Feb 2, 5:49?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
>> > I did not propose obvious module names. ?I said obvious names like
>> > email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are
>> > better.
>>
>> But surely send_email.py doesn't just send email, it parses email and
>> receives email as well?
> 
> No, it doesn't.

Nevertheless, as a general principle, modules will tend to be multi-
purpose and/or generic. How would you rename the math or random modules 
to be less "obvious" and more "descriptive"?

And of course, the less obvious the name, the harder it becomes for 
people to find and use it. Which extreme would you rather?

import zip
import compress_and_decompress_files_to_zip_archives


I'm sympathetic to the position you're taking. It's not bad advice at 
all, but I think you're over-selling it as a complete solution to the 
problem of name clashes. I think it can only slightly alleviate the 
problem of name clashes, not eliminate it.


-- 
Steven


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 00:08:39 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:39 -0600
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87bpg6sy7c.fsf@castleamber.com>

Xah Lee <xahlee at gmail.com> writes:

> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

Oh noes, someone is harrassing poor Xah the Usenet spammer. You have
been and still are a major pain in the ass to a lot of Usenet users, and
still surprised that you're not making friends. I mean, what did you
want to do on IRC? Copy paste line by line one of your "fine" articles,
followed by a link to your site. And what the hell were you doing,
asking a Python question in #python? Shouldn't that be asked the Xah way
in #perl or #lisp?

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 00:11:49 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:11:49 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
> to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,

Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
a statement like this.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 00:29:21 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:29:21 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <873a1isx8u.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Feb 1, 6:36?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:

[..]

>> It should be $bar = \&foo
>> Your example actually calls foo...
>
> I rest my case. I've been programming perl professionally since 2000,
> and I still make stupid, newbie mistakes like that.

Uhm, in another post you wrote that you could explain Python in an hour
to an experienced programmer and you *still* make mistakes like that in
Perl!?

By the way, the language is called Perl. If you write "I've been
programming perl" in a Perl related group some people might read it as
that you've been working on the internals of the perl executable (in C)

>> > One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
>> > the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
>> > function calls with references.
>>
>> The syntax follows that of referencing and dereferencing:
>>
>> $bar = \@array; ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to array
>> $bar->[ 0 ]; ? ? ? ? ?# first element of array referenced by bar
>> $bar = \%hash; ? ? ? ?# bar contains now a reference to a hash
>> $bar->{ key }; ? ? ? ?# value associated with key of hash ref. by bar
>> $bar = \&foo; ? ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to a sub
>> $bar->( 45 ); ? ? ? ? # call sub ref. by bar with 45 as an argument
>>
>> Consistent: yes. New syntax? No.
>>
>
> Except for the following symbols and combinations, which are entirely
> new and different from the $@% that you have to know just to use
> arrays and hashes.
>
> \@, ->[ ]

@array, one item: $array[ 1 ];
$arrayref, one item: $arrayref->[ 1 ];

> \%, ->{ }

%hash, one item: $hash{ key };
hence: $hashref, one item: $hash->{ key }

> \&, ->( )

should now be clear ;-)

You *should* have no problem with that if you have been
programming professionally Perl since 2000 IMNSHO. Otherwise print my
post or copy it on a post-it note ;-).

Remember that all this was added to Perl in version 5. So it had to be
added in a way that wouldn't break Perl 4. Perl is, in my experience
quite good in backwards compatibility. Quite some Perl modules on CPAN
work from 5.00x-5.10 and most likely will work without trouble in 5.12.

> By the way:
> * How do you do a hashslice on a hashref?

I will reply like it's a genuine question, and not like "Oh, look, how
silly Perl works". I don't care about that much. I do like Perl and am
starting to like Python.

@$hashref{ 'key1', 'key2', 'key3' };

> * How do you invoke reference to a hash that contains a reference to
> an array that contains a reference to a function?

I guess you mean:

$hashref->{ key }[ index ]( arguments );

The long version is:

$hashref->{ key }->[ index ]->( arguments );

[ Python advocacy snipped]

> I'd rather think of the task at hand than what each of the funky
> symbols on my keyboard mean.

Then just quit programming Perl ;-) Perl has always come naturally to
me, no idea why. Recently I said to a close friend:

Python is like my desk, which I prefer to keep clean and neat.
Perl is like my livingroom, which I prefer to keep clean and neat to
some extend, but some mess is allowed. For example, the cat can be
there. Toys of my daughter are allowed to be all over the place. A
pleasant mess, but not too much.

I won't repeat what I said about PHP ;-).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 00:59:03 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 05:59:03 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.05.59.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:11:49 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> 
>> I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
>> to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
> 
> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
> a statement like this.

Surely you're exaggerating? 

Without making any aspersions towards Jonathan either way, the Internet 
is full of both blowhards and geniuses. Anyone who lets the off-the-cup 
claims of either ruin their self-confidence is unlikely to be thinking 
about learning Python, they're probably sitting alone in a dark room 
staring as the walls close in.

Either that or on MySpace.



-- 
Steven


From hirotaka.niitsuma at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 01:01:22 2010
From: hirotaka.niitsuma at gmail.com (Niitsuma Hirotaka)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:01:22 +0900
Subject: calling python from lisp
Message-ID: <6ce56e1a1002022201y9654271p9df4afc11dfc4d8b@mail.gmail.com>

Autor: Martin Rubey
Data: 2008-10-29 09:34 +900
Dla: python-list
CC: sage-devel
Temat: calling python from lisp
http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20081029.003410.172560ac.pl.html

>sys:1: RuntimeWarning: Python C API version mismatch for module pol: This Python has API version 1013, module pol has version 1011.

I modified some of pythononlisp including this.
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~niitsuma/pythononlispex.html

plz try.


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 01:03:54 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:03:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 12:45?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
> GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
> arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
> In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
> features in this release:
>
> - Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
> - Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
> - Performance improvements by improved caching.
> - Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
> - Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
> - Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
> ? longer recognized.
>
> Changes since 1.11rc1:
> - Recognizes GMP 5.
> - Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).
>
> Comments on provided binaries
>
> The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
> 1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
> optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
> compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
> instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.
>
> Please report any issues!

My previous replies didn't show up. Something to do the .announce
group? I'll trim that and try again. Sorry if they show up eventually.

Two issues:

1] why does both gmpy 1.11 and gmpy 1.11rc1 both reply

>>> gmpy.version()
'1.11'

Aren't these different versions? How are we supposed to tell them
apart?


2] Is it true that the only changes since 1.11rc1 are not
   applicable to me since

   - I'm not using Windows
   - whether it recognizes GMP 5 is moot as GMP 5 cannot be
     compiled on a Mac (according to GMP site)

Is it possible GMP's problems with getting GMP 5 to compile
are the same ones I had with 3.1 on Snow Leopard? (They bemoan
not having a set of every Mac system.) Think it would behoove
me to try it?


>
> casevh



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 01:20:18 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:20:18 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.05.59.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <87pr4msuvx.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:11:49 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
>
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> 
>>> I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
>>> to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
>> 
>> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
>> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
>> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
>> a statement like this.
>
> Surely you're exaggerating? 

No, because if I was I would've put a smiley there somewhere. I am
learning Python, for a time to be honest. I can manage in the language
quite well.

I consider myself quite an experienced Perl programmer, I have no
problems with the constructs Jonathan elsewhere in this thread claims to
have problems with after 10 years of professional Perl programming. They
come natural to me. But I don't see myself being able to understand
every Python feature in a talk of an hour *with* the current
understanding of Python I have (read halfway through Programming In
Python 3, read selected chapters on decorators, etc.).

> Without making any aspersions towards Jonathan either way, the Internet 
> is full of both blowhards and geniuses. Anyone who lets the off-the-cup 
> claims of either ruin their self-confidence is unlikely to be thinking 
> about learning Python, they're probably sitting alone in a dark room 
> staring as the walls close in.

I am quite serious about learning Python, I do write professionally in
it [1], but I am convinced that I need at least several months more of
studying to feel comfortable with most (not even all) of Python.

To me a much more relastic view on learning a programming language is:
http://norvig.com/21-days.html

[1] very small programs, and my customer is fully aware of that I am
    learning a new language but trust me, which is great.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 01:27:37 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:27:37 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.05.59.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87pr4msuvx.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <87ljfasujq.fsf@castleamber.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:11:49 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
>>>> to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
>>> 
>>> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
>>> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
>>> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
>>> a statement like this.
>>
>> Surely you're exaggerating? 
>
> No, because if I was I would've put a smiley there somewhere. I am
> learning Python, for a time to be honest. I can manage in the language
> quite well.

Clarification: for a beginner that is.

> [1] very small programs, and my customer is fully aware of that I am
>     learning a new language but trust me, which is great.

Should've been "but trusts me,".

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 01:33:20 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:33:20 -0500
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <1e88a2b7-089c-41d0-aadd-38f8586e2466@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1e88a2b7-089c-41d0-aadd-38f8586e2466@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkb5bf$u86$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/2/2010 9:02 PM, alex23 wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:02 am, John Nagle<na... at animats.com>  wrote:
>>      I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
>> multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
>> ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.
>
> It's a shame that Python 3.x is dead to you, otherwise you'd be able
> to enjoy the new GIL implementation in 3.2: http://www.dabeaz.com/python/NewGIL.pdf
>
> Actually, it looks like you probably still can:
>   + patch for 2.5.4: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/109929
>   + patch for 2.7? http://bugs.python.org/issue7753

The patch was rejected for 2.7 (and earlier) because it could break code 
as explained in the discussion. One would have to apply and compile 
their own binary.



From swrath at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 01:38:56 2010
From: swrath at gmail.com (sWrath swrath)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:38:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: newbie qns : how do i use xmldiff?
Message-ID: <e9313ffe-8192-41c8-a995-1c71f98e15d0@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi ,

I am pretty new to python , and reading up on it.

Basically I am trying to compare xml files . I know difflib have it
but it does not work out as expected. I was looking at xmldiff ,
unfortunately I am not able to find documentation how to call it from
python. Anyone knows a link or doc to it as I have been looking high
and low for few days?

lastly , is there a py (or algorithm) where it behaves exactly like
diff ? Greatly appreciated.

Thanks
john


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 01:43:51 2010
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:43:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: expy 0.5.2 released
Message-ID: <857729.7198.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

expy is an expressway to extend python.

in release 0.5.2, expy now supports custom exceptions, besides all built-in ones, and exception handling is made easy.

for more info, see 

http://expy.sourceforge.net/

cheers,

Yingjie


      


From simonzack at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 03:30:41 2010
From: simonzack at gmail.com (Simon zack)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:30:41 +0800
Subject: exec within function
Message-ID: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>

hi,
I'm not sure how I can use exec within a function correctly
here is the code i'm using:

def a():
    exec('b=1')
    print(b)

a()

this will raise an error, but I would like to see it outputting 1

thanks
smk
-------------- next part --------------
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From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 03:32:58 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:32:58 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC 
Message-ID: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?

I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )

these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
message queues of the receiving process.

example:

'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'

the receiver dos not necesarily have to know who sent the message

a message shall be dropped silently if the receiving process is not running

a message shall be reliably delivered if the receiving process is up


xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.

signals don't allow to exchange data

a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
python's Multiprocessing.Queue  seems to require a common parent process



thanks a lot for any ideas / suggestions



N



N


From masklinn at masklinn.net  Wed Feb  3 03:50:26 2010
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:50:26 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>
	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>

On 2 Feb 2010, at 17:52 , Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> Masklinn wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>  
>>> To add a custom level, I would proceed that way:
>>> 
>>> logging.ALERT = 45
>>> logging.addLevelName(logging.ALERT, 'ALERT !!')
>>> logging.getLogger().log(logging.ALERT, 'test')
>>> 
>>> Passing a string to the log method as you did is incorrect.
>>>    
>> 
>> I know it's currently incorrect. My point was more along the line that there was *no reason* for it to be incorrect. logging already contains all the tools for log('PANTS_ON_FIRE') to be allowed
>>  
> The reason is that log takes an *int* as first argument that defines the logging level. You gave a string. So There is definitely a reason for it to be incorrect.
That's not a reason, that's just what currently happens. I know it doesn't work, and I know why, I went and checked the code. But there's no fundamental reason why you couldn't use a level *name* instead of a level code. And indeed, in most parts of logging you can (including but not limited to the configuration of handlers and loggers)

>>  
>>> Regarding your first point, I guess it's anti pattern. One way to do it:
>>> 1/ Configure the root logger with the lowest value 0, so the root logger does not filter any level.
>>> 2/ Configure each of your logger with the correct level
>>> 
>>> That way you can configure your '0' logger as you (badly :o)) named it with one level, and configure a potential '1' logger with another level. Don't bother with propagation. That way you won't need to duplicate your handlers on every logger.
>>>    
>> 
>> re logger 0, no need for complex name for a test case (and it allowed me to create easy-to-remember 0.1 and 0.1.2 if needed)
>> 
>> Re your answer, from what I understand you want the root logger to NOTSET and then each child logger with its correct level? But that's not a solution, each and every level will *still* require a handler explicitly configured on it. That's in fact very much my issue: logging refuses that a logger be handler-less in a config file, it's mandatory to configure a handler any time a logger is configured.
>>  
> the field handlers must be defined even if empty.
Ah, interesting, I didn't think it could be defined as empty.

Which makes the requirement to have an empty ``handler`` completely nonsensical, doesn't it?



From timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 04:21:44 2010
From: timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com (Timothy N. Tsvetkov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:21:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4da2372c-954c-46b8-a6e9-2768bce812f5@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 28, 2:29?am, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Jan 27, 5:47?am, Simon Brunning <si... at brunningonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I think Python is a little cleaner, but I'm sure you'd find Ruby fans
> > who'd argue the complete opposite.
>
> Are you sure about that?
>
> There's a lot of line noise in Ruby. How are you supposed to pronounce
> "@@"? What about "{|..| ... }"?
>
> There's a lot of "magic" in Ruby as well. For instance, function calls
> are made without parentheses. Blocks can only appear as the first
> argument. There's a lot more, if you put your mind to it.
>
> Indentation is also optional in Ruby. You can quickly fool a newbie by
> not indenting your code properly, which is impossible in Python.
>
> Python is much, much cleaner. I don't know how anyone can honestly say
> Ruby is cleaner than Python.

I will. I developed on both (Python was first) and I think that ruby I
very clean and maybe cleaner than Python. Also I don't know any
situation where you need to pronounce your code symbol by symbol. You
might need to pronounce some semantics.

And you're wrong with blocks.

About indent your right. It helps newbies indent code becouse they
must to. But most of professional developers started with Pascal and
then C and they all indent well :) it is about culture and it is what
about teacher should say.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb  3 04:29:38 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:29:38 -0300
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <op.u7jonolyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:32:58 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:

> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent  
> process)
> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>
> these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
> integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
> message queues of the receiving process.
>
> example:
>
> 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
> 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
> 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'

Try using a named pipe between each pair of processes (os.mkfifo + open on  
Linux, open(r"\\.\pipe\desired_name", ...) on Windows)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 04:34:34 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:34:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 8:32?am, News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?
>
> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>
> these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
> integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
> message queues of the receiving process.
>
> example:
>
> 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
> 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
> 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'
>
> the receiver dos not necesarily have to know who sent the message
>
> a message shall be dropped silently if the receiving process is not running
>
> a message shall be reliably delivered if the receiving process is up
>
> xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>
> signals don't allow to exchange data
>
> a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
> python's Multiprocessing.Queue ?seems to require a common parent process
>
> thanks a lot for any ideas / suggestions
>
> N
>
> N

Gabriel's suggestion is very good; if you need something which is a
little more like RPC but still quite lightweight, consider Pyro
(http://pyro.sourceforge.net/)

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From tinnews at isbd.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 04:45:16 2010
From: tinnews at isbd.co.uk (tinnews at isbd.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:45:16 +0000
Subject: pyfltk ducumentation question
Message-ID: <c6tn37-l1i.ln1@chris.isbd.net>

I have just installed pyfltk version 1.1.4 on my xubuntu 9.10 system,
it's working OK and a fairly trivial little program I have written is
able to pop up a GUI window.

However I'm now a bit stuck as the documentation seems a little
sparse.  For example I'm using FL_Multiline_Output and can't find
enough detail to enable me to use its methods.

I start from:-

    http://pyfltk.sourceforge.net/docs/CH3_Common.html

This tells me that there is a FL_Multiline_Output widget and that it
has a value() method, this is what I have used to display some text in
my little application.

When I click on the FL_Multiline_Output link in the above page it
takes me to:-

    http://pyfltk.sourceforge.net/docs/fltk.html#Fl_Multiline_Output

which lists all the methods and other bits and pieces belonging to
Fl_Multiline_Output but as far as I can see that's it, there is no
further information.  The methods are links but they only link to
themselves, when you click on them the browser moves the method to the
top of the display window.

Am I missing something obvious or do I need the FLTK documentation to
give me the detail I need?

-- 
Chris Green



From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb  3 05:01:55 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:01:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: test -- please ignore
Message-ID: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com>



(my replies in a different comp.lang.python thread are getting
rejected by the server; i have no problem posting to alt.test; and
i'm trying to toubleshoot the problem further.)


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 05:39:58 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:39:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 3 feb, 09:34, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sa... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 8:32?am, News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?
>
> > I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> > win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
> > Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> > name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>
> > these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
> > integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
> > message queues of the receiving process.
>
> > example:
>
> > 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
> > 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
> > 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'
>
> > the receiver dos not necesarily have to know who sent the message
>
> > a message shall be dropped silently if the receiving process is not running
>
> > a message shall be reliably delivered if the receiving process is up
>
> > xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>
> > signals don't allow to exchange data
>
> > a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
> > python's Multiprocessing.Queue ?seems to require a common parent process
>
> > thanks a lot for any ideas / suggestions
>
> > N
>
> > N
>
> Gabriel's suggestion is very good; if you need something which is a
> little more like RPC but still quite lightweight, consider Pyro
> (http://pyro.sourceforge.net/)
>
> Regards,
>
> Vinay Sajip

I've read that Pyro is not safe. Anyway, you have in mind that respect
to speed:

shared memory > named pipes > Unix domain socket > TCP socket

I don't sure about if the message queues would be faster that Unix
domain sockets

Another thing. Using shared memory would be as to use a single thread
but using message queues would be as multiple-threading.


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 05:46:16 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:46:16 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1821.1265189401.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1821.1265189401.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6953f8$0$17133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,

I'll look at it.
I wasn't aware about named pipes for windows.

bye


N


Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:32:58 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
>> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent
>> process)
>> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
>> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>>
>> these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
>> integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
>> message queues of the receiving process.
>>
>> example:
>>
>> 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
>> 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
>> 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'
> 
> Try using a named pipe between each pair of processes (os.mkfifo + open
> on Linux, open(r"\\.\pipe\desired_name", ...) on Windows)
> 


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb  3 05:50:19 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:50:19 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
	<800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>
Message-ID: <4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>


>> The reason is that log takes an *int* as first argument that defines the logging level. You gave a string. So There is definitely a reason for it to be incorrect.
>>     
> That's not a reason, that's just what currently happens. I know it doesn't work, and I know why, I went and checked the code. But there's no fundamental reason why you couldn't use a level *name* instead of a level code. And indeed, in most parts of logging you can (including but not limited to the configuration of handlers and loggers)
>
>   
You don't neeed to check the code for that ! It is written in the 
documentation. The logging module designer choose to ask for a level, 
not a level name, possibly because 2 different levels can have the same 
name.


>>
>> the field handlers must be defined even if empty.
>>     
> Ah, interesting, I didn't think it could be defined as empty.
>
> Which makes the requirement to have an empty ``handler`` completely nonsensical, doesn't it?
>
>   

'completeley nonsensical' is overstating.  It make sense to state that 
your handler list is empty, when it is empty. Having no field at all 
could possibly mean the same, but it's often better that have one 
consisten way to interface with a module.


JM


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Feb  3 05:54:19 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:54:19 +0000
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6955DB.2060604@timgolden.me.uk>

[News123<news... at free.fr>]
>>> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?

...

>>> xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>>
>>> signals don't allow to exchange data
>>
>>> a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
>>> python's Multiprocessing.Queue  seems to require a common parent process

[Vinay Sajip]
>> Gabriel's suggestion is very good; if you need something which is a
>> little more like RPC but still quite lightweight, consider Pyro
>> (http://pyro.sourceforge.net/)

[peloko45 at gmail.com]
> I've read that Pyro is not safe.

That's a fairly broad thing to say. I've read lots
of things. What does "is not safe" mean, in any case?
I assume you've got a valid concern in mind which is
worth passing on to a would-be user, but what exactly
is it? FWIW I've used Pyro on and off over the years
without any problems. Certainly my computer's never
blown up as a result of using it.

Obviously Pyro is Python-only so interaction with non-Python
code would be problematic. But the OP only mentions Python
scripts so hopefully that wouldn't be an issue...

>Anyway, you have in mind that respect to speed:
>
> shared memory>  named pipes>  Unix domain socket>  TCP socket

True, but the OP didn't mention speed; rather simplicity. Not
saying it isn't a consideration but premature optimisation and
all that...

> Another thing. Using shared memory would be as to use a single thread
> but using message queues would be as multiple-threading.

And therefore...?

I think you need to make your points more clearly.

TJG


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Feb  3 05:55:57 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:55:57 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1779.1265099894.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002030255h5b7de55enea26a063246657b5@mail.gmail.com>

>>> I like seeing them in the same place as the source file, because when I
>>> start developing a module, I often end up renaming it multiple times
>>> before it settles on a final name. When I rename or move it, I delete
>>> the .pyc file, and that ensures that if I miss changing an import, and
>>> try to import the old name, it will fail.
>>>
>>> By hiding the .pyc file elsewhere, it is easy to miss deleting one, and
>>> then the import won't fail, it will succeed, but use the old, obsolete
>>> byte code.
>>
>>
>> Okay, I see your point but I think your argument about importing shows
>> that python is doing something suboptimal because I have to worry about
>> .pyc files. Ideally, I only would need to worry about python source
>> files.
>
> That's no different from any language that is compiled: you have to worry
> about keeping the compiled code (byte code or machine language) in sync
> with the source code.

True.

> Python does most of that for you: it automatically recompiles the source
> whenever the source code's last modified date stamp is newer than that of
> the byte code. So to a first approximation you can forget all about
> the .pyc files and just care about the source.

True, but the .pyc file is lying around and I always have to do 'ls
-al | grep -v pyc' in my python source directory.

> But that's only a first approximation. You might care about the .pyc
> files if:
>
> (1) you want to distribute your application in a non-human readable
> format;

Sure, I do care about pyc files, of course, I just would prefer to
have them at a separate location.

> (2) if you care about clutter in your file system;

You mean having an extra directory structure for the pyc files? This I
think would be better than having the pyc files in the source
directory, but we are getting into 'gut feelings' territory :)

> (3) if you suspect a bug in the compiler;

If the pyc files are somewhere else you can still inspect them if you want.

> (4) if you are working with byte-code hacks;

Again, just because they are somewhere else doesn't mean you can't get to them.

> (5) if the clock on your PC is wonky;

Same as above.

> (6) if you leave random .pyc files floating around earlier in the
> PYTHONPATH than your source files;
>
> etc.
>
>
>
>
>> There is now a chance to 'fix' (quotation marks because maybe
>> there is nothing to fix, according to some) this issue and make all pyc
>> files go away and having python magically doing the right thing.
>
> Famous last words...
>
> The only ways I can see to have Python magically do the right thing in
> all cases would be:
>
> (1) Forget about byte-code compiling, and just treat Python as a purely
> interpreted language. If you think Python is slow now...

I'm not advocating this option, naturally.

> (2) Compile as we do now, but only keep the byte code in memory. This
> would avoid all worries about scattered .pyc files, but would slow Python
> down significantly *and* reduce functionality (e.g. losing the ability to
> distribute non-source files).

I'm not advocating this option either.

> Neither of these are seriously an option.

Agreed.

>> A
>> central pyc repository would be something I was thinking about, but I
>> admit it's a half baked or not even that, probably quarter baked idea.
>
> A central .pyc repository doesn't eliminate the issues developers may
> have with byte code files, it just puts them somewhere else, out of
> sight, where they are more likely to bite.

Here is an example: shared object files. If your code needs them, you
can use them easily, you can access them easily if you want to, but
they are not in the directory where you keep your C files. They are
somewhere in /usr/lib for example, where they are conveniently
collected, you can inspect them, look at them, distribute them, do
basically whatever you want, but they are out of the way, and 99% of
the time while you develop your code, you don't need them. In the 1%
of the case you can easily get at them in the centralized location,
/usr/lib in our example.

Of course the relationship between C source files and shared objects
is not parallel to the relationship to python source files and the
created pyc files, please don't nitpick on this point. The analogy is
in the sense that your project inevitable needs for whatever reason
some binary files which are rarely needed at hand, only the
linker/compiler/interpreter/etc needs to know where they are. These
files can be stored separately, but at a location where one can
inspect them if needed (which rarely happens).

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From eden at bicikl.  Wed Feb  3 06:05:02 2010
From: eden at bicikl. (Eden Kirin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:05:02 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hkbl8u$s42$1@nntp.amis.hr>

On 03.02.2010 09:32, News123 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?

Consider using Thrift (http://incubator.apache.org/thrift/). It is 
multiplatform multilanguage RPC and IPC solution. I implemented it in 
couple of my projects and it works seamlessly.

-- 
www.vikendi.net -/- www.supergrupa.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb  3 06:05:08 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:05:08 +1100
Subject: test -- please ignore
References: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87wryumvff.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

kj <no.email at please.post> writes:

> (my replies in a different comp.lang.python thread are getting
> rejected by the server; i have no problem posting to alt.test; and
> i'm trying to toubleshoot the problem further.)

Thank you for this explanation. It is important to know that you've
tried the less obtrusive diagnostics first. Good hunting.

-- 
 \       ?To have the choice between proprietary software packages, is |
  `\      being able to choose your master. Freedom means not having a |
_o__)                        master.? ?Richard M. Stallman, 2007-05-16 |
Ben Finney


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 06:10:21 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:10:21 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
and love it a much.
I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.

Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

Well. I understand that it is a very ambitious and experimental stuff.
Great efforts and motivation needed even to get something "runnable".
So I am looking for someone to get in kind of "virtual partnership".
If someone interesting it that soft of stuff, I would like to talk and
discuss this system.

Vladimir Ignatov


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 06:31:14 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:31:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6b65c778-f905-4eb6-b077-523fbea8e22c@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 3 feb, 10:54, Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> [News123<news... at free.fr>]
>
> >>> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?
>
> ...
>
> >>> xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>
> >>> signals don't allow to exchange data
>
> >>> a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
> >>> python's Multiprocessing.Queue ?seems to require a common parent process
>
> [Vinay Sajip]
>
> >> Gabriel's suggestion is very good; if you need something which is a
> >> little more like RPC but still quite lightweight, consider Pyro
> >> (http://pyro.sourceforge.net/)
>
> [pelok... at gmail.com]
>
> > I've read that Pyro is not safe.
>
> That's a fairly broad thing to say. I've read lots
> of things. What does "is not safe" mean, in any case?
> I assume you've got a valid concern in mind which is
> worth passing on to a would-be user, but what exactly
> is it? FWIW I've used Pyro on and off over the years
> without any problems. Certainly my computer's never
> blown up as a result of using it.
>From its own page:
"Pyro has never been truly designed to provide a secure communication
mechanism, nor has it had a security review or -test by a security
expert."
http://pyro.sourceforge.net/features.html

> Obviously Pyro is Python-only so interaction with non-Python
> code would be problematic. But the OP only mentions Python
> scripts so hopefully that wouldn't be an issue...


From masklinn at masklinn.net  Wed Feb  3 06:36:53 2010
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:36:53 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
	<800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>
	<4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <6B7EE46E-CECB-42CB-AA6B-5986E1A2210D@masklinn.net>

On 3 Feb 2010, at 11:50 , Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> 
>>> The reason is that log takes an *int* as first argument that defines the logging level. You gave a string. So There is definitely a reason for it to be incorrect.
>>>    
>> That's not a reason, that's just what currently happens. I know it doesn't work, and I know why, I went and checked the code. But there's no fundamental reason why you couldn't use a level *name* instead of a level code. And indeed, in most parts of logging you can (including but not limited to the configuration of handlers and loggers)
>> 
> You don't neeed to check the code for that ! It is written in the documentation. The logging module designer choose to ask for a level, not a level name, possibly because 2 different levels can have the same name.
> 
Nope, 2 different levels cannot have the same name: levels are currently stored in a dict of string:level and level:string, so you can't have 2 names for the same level, and you can't have 2 levels with the same name either.

>>> 
>>> the field handlers must be defined even if empty.
>>>    
>> Ah, interesting, I didn't think it could be defined as empty.
>> 
>> Which makes the requirement to have an empty ``handler`` completely nonsensical, doesn't it?
> 'completeley nonsensical' is overstating.  It make sense to state that your handler list is empty, when it is empty.
Programmatically, that's implied in the fact that you aren't specifying it. Why wouldn't it be in the config file? Why the asymetry here?



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 08:04:03 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:04:03 -0800
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xtytyzd18.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

News123 <news123 at free.fr> writes:
> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )

If they are running on the same host with no untrusted local users, you
can use unix-domain sockets instead of TCP sockets and then the server
should be unreachable from the internet.  Then you're less exposed to
possible security issues with libraries like Pyro.  Personally I've just
used SocketServer/SimpleHTTPServer on the listening side and simplejson
for serialization, but that was for low-rent, low-performance
applications.  If you want something faster, zeromq (www.zeromq.org)
looks interesting.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 08:07:28 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:07:28 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xpr4mzcvj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Vladimir Ignatov <kmisoft at gmail.com> writes:
> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.

Yes, this is a well known drawback of dynamic typing.  The usual remedy
is lots and lots of test automation (a full suite of unit and
integration tests that you run on every build, that check the properties
of basically every function in your program).

> Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems 

I've never used a current CAD system, so I can't make any sense of this.
I don't see how databases would help.  


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Feb  3 08:16:45 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:16:45 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <7xpr4mzcvj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7xpr4mzcvj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4b69773e$0$6577$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Paul Rubin, 03.02.2010 14:07:
>> Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems 
> 
> I've never used a current CAD system, so I can't make any sense of this.
> I don't see how databases would help.  

Just like they help in current IDEs to index the source code.

Stefan


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Feb  3 08:18:40 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:18:40 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 14:10 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
> Hello,
> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
> and love it a much.
> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.

Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:

class.method(sting name, int count) 

- is *obviously* more expressive than -

class.method(name, count)

Oh, well.  

This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
a string... a list... ?"

Not knocking Python;  Python is great.  I maintain a rapidly growing
Python code base.  But the above is almost comically funny sometimes
[sand.insert_head(pythonista)].

> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

Ugh, please NO!  This has been attempted many many times in many
environments - it always fails *terribly*.

> Well. I understand that it is a very ambitious and experimental stuff.
> Great efforts and motivation needed even to get something "runnable".
> So I am looking for someone to get in kind of "virtual partnership".
> If someone interesting it that soft of stuff, I would like to talk and
> discuss this system.




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb  3 08:32:01 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:32:01 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <6B7EE46E-CECB-42CB-AA6B-5986E1A2210D@masklinn.net>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
	<800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>
	<4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>
	<6B7EE46E-CECB-42CB-AA6B-5986E1A2210D@masklinn.net>
Message-ID: <4B697AD1.8070602@sequans.com>

Masklinn wrote:
> On 3 Feb 2010, at 11:50 , Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> You don't neeed to check the code for that ! It is written in the documentation. The logging module designer choose to ask for a level, not a level name, possibly because 2 different levels can have the same name.
>>
>>     
> Nope, 2 different levels cannot have the same name: levels are currently stored in a dict of string:level and level:string, so you can't have 2 names for the same level, and you can't have 2 levels with the same name either.
>
>   
import logging
logging.addLevelName(5, 'test')
logging.addLevelName(6, 'test')

logging._levelNames
{0: 'NOTSET',
 5: 'test',
 6: 'test',
 10: 'DEBUG',
 20: 'INFO',
 30: 'WARNING',
 40: 'ERROR',
 50: 'CRITICAL',
 'CRITICAL': 50,
 'DEBUG': 10,
 'ERROR': 40,
 'INFO': 20,
 'NOTSET': 0,
 'WARN': 30,
 'WARNING': 30,
 'test': 6}

now quoting the doc:

logging.addLevelName(/lvl/, /levelName/)
    Associates level /lvl/ with text /levelName/ in an internal
    dictionary, which is *used to map numeric levels to a textual
    representation*, for example when a Formatter
    <http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#logging.Formatter>
    formats a message. This function can also be used to define your own
    levels. The only constraints are that all levels used must be
    registered using this function, levels should be positive integers
    and they should increase in increasing order of severity.


int -> string is the public association
string- > int is an internal hack to map easilty map Level name to their 
int identifier. This is used for the config file, where you specify a 
string not an int (you vrite level=DEBUG, not level=10)

Look at the builtin WARNING & WARN level, two different names for the 
same level.

In any case, you have to trust the documentation and public interface 
signature. Introspecting the code can be misleading. Now I better 
understand your initial concern.

>>>> the field handlers must be defined even if empty.
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> Ah, interesting, I didn't think it could be defined as empty.
>>>
>>> Which makes the requirement to have an empty ``handler`` completely nonsensical, doesn't it?
>>>       
>> 'completeley nonsensical' is overstating.  It make sense to state that your handler list is empty, when it is empty.
>>     
> Programmatically, that's implied in the fact that you aren't specifying it. Why wouldn't it be in the config file? Why the asymetry here?
>
>   
Note how progammatically the list of handlers is set to an empty list. 
The attribute handlers is always set, so the config file field shall be :o)

In [11]: logger = logging.getLogger('test')

In [12]: logger.handlers
Out[12]: []



JM


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Feb  3 08:35:41 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:35:41 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b697bae$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Adam Tauno Williams, 03.02.2010 14:18:
> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"
> 
> Not knocking Python;  Python is great.  I maintain a rapidly growing
> Python code base.  But the above is almost comically funny sometimes
> [sand.insert_head(pythonista)].

So, what's "pythonista" in the above? A dummy?

Stefan


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb  3 08:51:46 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:51:46 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <4B697F72.30609@sequans.com>

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
> to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>
> class.method(sting name, int count) 
>
> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>
> class.method(name, count)
>
>   
class.method(string name, int count):
"""Return the cap'tain's age.

    name: a string giving the name of the cap'tain daughter
    count: an int giving the number of fingers left in the cap'tain 
right hand
"""

In python, attributes/parameters have no type (but you know that). By 
specifying them in the method signature, you're just duplicating the 
information hold in the docstring.

JM


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb  3 08:52:03 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:52:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>



Steve, I apologize for the snarkiness of my previous reply to you.
After all, I started the thread by asking the forum for advice on
how to avoid a certain kind of bugs, you were among those who gave
me advice.  So nothing other than thanking you for it was in order.
I just let myself get carried away by my annoyance with the Python
import scheme.  I'm sorry about it.  Even though I don't think I
can put to practice all of your advice, I can still learn a good
deal from it.

Cheers,

~kj


Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

>kj wrote:
>> 
>>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>> 
>> ...*if* you happen to be clairvoyant.  I still don't see how the rest of us
>> could have followed this fine principle in the case of numbers.py
>> prior to Python 2.6.
>> 
>Clearly the more you know about the standard library the less likely
>this is to be a problem. Had you been migrqating from an earlier version
> the breakage would have alerted you to look for some version-dependent
>difference.

<snip>



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 08:54:26 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:54:26 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030554q6ffb5088ke4564200037e5366@mail.gmail.com>

> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"

Exactly. Often I don't need to know the exact type, but to figure out
that "kind of type" it is.

>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
>> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
>> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> Ugh, please NO! ?This has been attempted many many times in many
> environments - it always fails *terribly*.

Can you give some examples of such systems? (maybe just names for
googling for)  I don't see anything dirt in storing some additional
meta-information about the code under development and using it later
for all kind of benefits (easy refactoring for example). As with your
example with "parameter x", some additional information can be
"attached" to this paramer. Later it can be used during
code-generation phase and placed as "comment" in source code or placed
in popup tag in html-style presentation.

Vladimir Ignatov


From marco.salden at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 09:18:40 2010
From: marco.salden at gmail.com (Marco Salden)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:18:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8d0dcc8-9039-4453-8556-647ecc8057d4@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 12:10?pm, Vladimir Ignatov <kmis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
> and love it a much.
> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.
>
> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> Well. I understand that it is a very ambitious and experimental stuff.
> Great efforts and motivation needed even to get something "runnable".
> So I am looking for someone to get in kind of "virtual partnership".
> If someone interesting it that soft of stuff, I would like to talk and
> discuss this system.
>
> Vladimir Ignatov

The maintenance thing may be true but for me that doesn't outweigh the
clear benefits I get from using Python i.s.o. e.g. C++: the fact that
I have much less code that is more compact and for me more directly
readable is a clear advantage when doing maintance on code I didnt
touch for a while. Documenting the essential parameters used with some
examples and some logging helps (for me at least...).

The type of IDE you are looking for is more something like Rational
Rose (e.g. RRT?) type of tooling perhaps? There you "CAD" components
and their statebehavior and the system generates C or C++ code.

Regards,
Marco


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 09:42:52 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:42:52 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> writes:
> class.method(string name, int count):
> """Return the cap'tain's age.
>
>    name: a string giving the name of the cap'tain daughter
>    count: an int giving the number of fingers left in the cap'tain
> right hand
> """
>
> In python, attributes/parameters have no type (but you know that). By
> specifying them in the method signature, you're just duplicating the
> information hold in the docstring.

It's not enough to just document (except as an aid to remembering) since
the compiler and runtime don't enforce the documentation.  You have to
use static typing or write tests, to flag all the call sites if you
change the signature.  One nice trick with static types is if you change
what the method does (even if its type signature doesn't change), you
can rename the method:

   class.method2(string name, int count):  # change 'method' to 'method2'

and recompile your codebase.  Every place in the code that called
'method' now gets a compile time "undefined method" error that you can
examine to see if you need to update it.  This is something you can't
catch with unit tests because the call sites can be in distant modules.


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 09:58:25 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:58:25 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <a8d0dcc8-9039-4453-8556-647ecc8057d4@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8d0dcc8-9039-4453-8556-647ecc8057d4@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030658w181f8c9fp62b6f45d481b081f@mail.gmail.com>

> The maintenance thing may be true but for me that doesn't outweigh the
> clear benefits I get from using Python i.s.o. e.g. C++: the fact that
> I have much less code that is more compact and for me more directly
> readable is a clear advantage when doing maintance on code I didnt
> touch for a while. Documenting the essential parameters used with some
> examples and some logging helps (for me at least...).

Python is very easy to write. But with code grow and time passes,
things get worse. Currently I tries to reanimate one of my old
freeware project and faced it again.

> The type of IDE you are looking for is more something like Rational
> Rose (e.g. RRT?) type of tooling perhaps? There you "CAD" components
> and their statebehavior and the system generates C or C++ code.

Perhaps. I newer use Rational Rose but hear about it. But I use some
other Rational* products and they scare me a lot. So maybe Rose can be
used for "inspiration" but not much more.  Actually I don't want to
put programmer in GUI-fashioned env. with a lot of buttons and
switches. I think about "classic" text-like view but that actually
"understands" that are you doing (typing) on. So your types goes in
"datastore" first and then renders back as a text representation.
Something like this.

Vladimir Ignatov


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb  3 10:03:22 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:03:22 +0000
Subject: Need help with a program
References: <96db4cd6-bda3-42db-a592-83d72e517e2d@28g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<a3ddc086-7cfa-4853-9a2c-28abf374dc66@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4B61CE0E.5000801@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1551.1264701475.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkab6p$jk6$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.15.00.46.328000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:07:05 -0800, Aahz wrote:

>>If you have a problem and you think that regular expressions are the
>>solution then now you have two problems.  Regex is really overkill for
>>the OP's problem and it certainly doesn't improve readability.
> 
> If you're going to use a quote, it works better if you use the exact
> quote and attribute it:
> 
> 'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
> regular expressions."  Now they have two problems.' --Jamie Zawinski

He may have mixed that one up with a different (and more generic) saying:

	"If you think that X is the solution to your problem, then you don't
	understand X and you don't understand your problem."

For most values of X.



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:23:00 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:23:00 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <3dfd60f21002030723q393089e9kcfdec36fc2881b29@mail.gmail.com>

> Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
> to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>
> class.method(sting name, int count)
>
> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>
> class.method(name, count)
>
> Oh, well.
>
> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"
>
>
But I thought that was the one of beauties of Python, you don't need to know
if the input parameter is a list or a string.

cheers,
Stef
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From cournape at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:24:00 2010
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:24:00 +0900
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <5b8d13221002030724m109e6d9fubd35c9f4a20b8a94@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at opengroupware.us> wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 14:10 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
>> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
>> and love it a much.
>> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
>> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
>> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
>> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.
>
> Yes, it certainly does. ?Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
> to that fact. ?Somehow those who brag about the readability and
> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:

Static typing sounds "obviously" better only if you assume everything
else being equal. But the typing system also often goes in the way
when developing large codebases, when you need to refactor things,
etc... So if for a *given* codebase, you get type information, it is
almost certainly very helpful. But when you need to change this
codebase, maybe not so much.

There was a nice paper from people at Adobe which mentioned this very
aspect, focusing on how to maintain a significant codebase, from
prototype-kind of development to maintenance-kind of development:
http://www.ecmascript.org/es4/spec/evolutionary-programming-tutorial.pdf.
It strikes me as a good way to look at this tradeoff between static
and dynamic typing, where the dynamic typing for some "mostly frozen"
code areas has diminishing returns,

David


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:28:19 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:28:19 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>

Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can

> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric


I don't see what the advantage of the use of a database is in a fairly
linear hierarchical structure like python objects and modules.

and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>

You mean something like LabView ?

cheers,
Stef
(btw, my dreams ends up in the same needs)
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From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Feb  3 10:39:53 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:39:53 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <3dfd60f21002030723q393089e9kcfdec36fc2881b29@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<3dfd60f21002030723q393089e9kcfdec36fc2881b29@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265211593.7916.12.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 16:23 +0100, Stef Mientki wrote:
>         Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas
>         to confess
>         to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability
>         and
>         expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>         class.method(sting name, int count)
>         - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>         class.method(name, count)
>         Oh, well.
>         This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where
>         one
>         frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X
>         supposed to be...
>         a string... a list... ?"

> But I thought that was the one of beauties of Python, you don't need
> to know if the input parameter is a list or a string.

You don't need to know; unless of course you want the expected result.



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:48:12 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:48:12 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>

> I don't see what the advantage of the use of a database is in a fairly
> linear hierarchical structure like python objects and modules.

Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be
if system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
portions of text from internal database-alike representation.

> You mean something like LabView ?

No, I don't think so. I never use LabView but imagine it something
very "graphical-oriented". No, I think about more "classic" text view.
But back-ended with "smart" underlying system - not just obvious
"text".

Vladimir Ignatov


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Wed Feb  3 10:49:44 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:49:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Background Zones in Pylab Plot
Message-ID: <1eaf6046-db41-44b5-8c9e-b7a15e4cf078@30g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

I would like to add background zones in pylab plots. Colored sections
of the background that the curves pass through. Is this possible? My
google searches don't turn up anything but maybe my search terms
aren't the right ones.

Thanks


From banibrata.dutta at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:50:16 2010
From: banibrata.dutta at gmail.com (banibrata.dutta at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:50:16 +0000
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
Message-ID: <4b699c58.11435e0a.1137.01ea@mx.google.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Vladimir Ignatov
Sent:  03/02/2010 7:24:26 pm
Subject:  Re: Dreaming of new generation IDE

> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"

Exactly. Often I don't need to know the exact type, but to figure out
that "kind of type" it is.

>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
>> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
>> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> Ugh, please NO! ?This has been attempted many many times in many
> environments - it always fails *terribly*.

Can you give some examples of such systems? (maybe just names for
googling for)  I don't see anything dirt in storing some additional
meta-information about the code under development and using it later
for all kind of benefits (easy refactoring for example). As with your
example with "parameter x", some additional information can be
"attached" to this paramer. Later it can be used during
code-generation phase and placed as "comment" in source code or placed
in popup tag in html-style presentation.

BD> probably close to Java annotations perhaps? And as for the CAD approach, would a UML reverse engg tool help ? If yes, perhaps you could give BOUML a shot.

Regards,
Banibrata


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb  3 10:50:56 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:50:56 +0000
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
References: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>
	<mailman.1801.1265144876.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.15.48.19.390000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:07:50 +1100, Astan Chee wrote:

> Sorry for being vague but here my question about converting an xml into 
> a dict. I found some examples online but none gives the dict/result I 
> want.


> Which is kinda wrong. I expect the dict to have the "Space usage 
> summary", but it doesn't (duplicate?). What am I doing wrong here?
> I am attempting to keep the attribute value of an XML as key (if it 
> doesn't have a value, then just the tag name will do) and associate it 
> with the text value of that tag/attribute value as well as reflecting 
> the hierarchy structure of the XML in the dict. Does this make sense?
> Anyway, the python script above is just the first step or an example for me.

The code you're using expects the XML to follow a particular format, and
yours doesn't.

You might want to start with a fairly direct translation, e.g.:

def xmldict(e):
    d = {}
    d['tag'] = e.tag
    d.update(e.attrib)
    children = map(xmldict, e)
    if children:
	d['children'] = children
    text = e.text.strip()
    if text:
	d['text'] = text
    return d

tree = ElementTree.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()
d = xmldict(root)
pprint.pprint(d)

then refine this as needed.



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:52:52 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:52:52 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B699BD4.1010703@gmail.com>

On 03-02-2010 16:48, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> I don't see what the advantage of the use of a database is in a fairly
>> linear hierarchical structure like python objects and modules.
>>      
> Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
> environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be
> if system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
> portions of text from internal database-alike representation.
>    
I think every IDE (not older than 20 years) does that already.
cheers,
Stef



From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb  3 11:17:52 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:17:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <hkbv23$c07$1 at reader2.panix.com> kj <no.email at please.post> writes:


>Steve, I apologize for the snarkiness of my previous reply to you.
>After all, I started the thread by asking the forum for advice on
>how to avoid a certain kind of bugs, you were among those who gave
>me advice.  So nothing other than thanking you for it was in order.
>I just let myself get carried away by my annoyance with the Python
>import scheme.  I'm sorry about it.  Even though I don't think I
>can put to practice all of your advice, I can still learn a good
>deal from it.


Boy, that was dumb of me.  The above apology was meant for Stephen
Hansen, not Steve Holden.  I guess this is now a meta-apology...
(Sheesh.)

~kj



From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb  3 11:23:58 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:23:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: test -- please ignore
References: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com> <87wryumvff.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hkc7uu$jt$2@reader2.panix.com>

In <87wryumvff.fsf at benfinney.id.au> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:

>kj <no.email at please.post> writes:

>> (my replies in a different comp.lang.python thread are getting
>> rejected by the server; i have no problem posting to alt.test; and
>> i'm trying to toubleshoot the problem further.)

>Thank you for this explanation. It is important to know that you've
>tried the less obtrusive diagnostics first. Good hunting.

I figured out the immediate reason for the failure: when replying
to *certain posts*, my newsreader omits the Newsgroups header from
the response.  Why it does this is still a mystery to me, but at
least now I know what to look out for.  Then again, I use the
"venerable" (i.e. decrepit) nn as newsreader, so this discovery
probably won't help many of those reading this...


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Feb  3 11:33:57 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:33:57 +0000
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B69A575.2020604@timgolden.me.uk>

On 03/02/2010 16:17, kj wrote:
> Boy, that was dumb of me.  The above apology was meant for Stephen
> Hansen, not Steve Holden.  I guess this is now a meta-apology...
> (Sheesh.)

You see? That's what I like about the Python community:
people even apologise for apologising :)

TJG


From casevh at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:37:36 2010
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:37:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org> 
	<e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb7ede09-86a9-4c41-a643-309a344e9729@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 10:03?pm, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 12:45?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Everyone,
>
> > I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
> > GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
> > arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:
>
> >http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
> > In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
> > features in this release:
>
> > - Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
> > - Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
> > - Performance improvements by improved caching.
> > - Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
> > - Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
> > - Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
> > ? longer recognized.
>
> > Changes since 1.11rc1:
> > - Recognizes GMP 5.
> > - Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).
>
> > Comments on provided binaries
>
> > The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
> > 1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
> > optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
> > compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
> > instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.
>
> > Please report any issues!
>
> My previous replies didn't show up. Something to do the .announce
> group? I'll trim that and try again. Sorry if they show up eventually.
>
> Two issues:
>
> 1] why does both gmpy 1.11 and gmpy 1.11rc1 both reply
>
> >>> gmpy.version()
>
> '1.11'
>
> Aren't these different versions? How are we supposed to tell them
> apart?

Check the name of source tarball?

gmpy._cvsid() will return the internal source code revision number.
The changes made in each revision number are listed at
http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/source/list.

I know some applications check gmpy.version(). I don't know if they'll
work if the format of the string changes.

>
> 2] Is it true that the only changes since 1.11rc1 are not
> ? ?applicable to me since
>
> ? ?- I'm not using Windows
> ? ?- whether it recognizes GMP 5 is moot as GMP 5 cannot be
> ? ? ?compiled on a Mac (according to GMP site)

Yes. The only change for GMP 5 was to recognize the new version number
when running the tests.

>
> Is it possible GMP's problems with getting GMP 5 to compile
> are the same ones I had with 3.1 on Snow Leopard? (They bemoan
> not having a set of every Mac system.) Think it would behoove
> me to try it?

According to comments on GMP's mailing list, the latest snapshot
should work.
ftp://ftp.gmplib.org/pub/snapshot/

>
>
>
> > casevh
>
>



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb  3 11:38:47 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Feb 2010 08:38:47 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<slrnhm3ojr.lqh.jrh@polaris.joshh.co.uk>
	<b9c88f31-832d-4810-9032-79b8fc4f6379@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkc8qn$b4i$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>	I shall blaspheme, and suggest that maybe the language you want to
>use is REXX (ooREXX or Regina).
>
>	By default, ANY statement that can not be confused for a REXX
>language statement is sent to the currently defined command handler
>(Which on most OSs is equivalent to Python's os.system() call; the late
>Amiga, and IBM's mainframe OS had features that support defining other
>applications as command handlers).

How is that different from bash scripting?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb  3 11:40:59 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Feb 2010 08:40:59 -0800
Subject: test -- please ignore
References: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com> <87wryumvff.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hkc7uu$jt$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkc8ur$al7$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hkc7uu$jt$2 at reader2.panix.com>, kj  <no.email at please.post> wrote:
>
>I figured out the immediate reason for the failure: when replying
>to *certain posts*, my newsreader omits the Newsgroups header from
>the response.  Why it does this is still a mystery to me, but at
>least now I know what to look out for.  Then again, I use the
>"venerable" (i.e. decrepit) nn as newsreader, so this discovery
>probably won't help many of those reading this...

Perhaps it's similar to problems in the even-more-venerable trn3.6 that
come from excessively long References: headers?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb  3 11:55:40 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:55:40 +0000
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
	<deb07bff-e9ef-4384-a206-c5aad551ef85@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.16.53.03.578000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:38:53 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

>> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
>> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
>> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
>> than in the process' CWD.
>>
>> As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
>> lexically scoped.
> 
> Mostly incorrect.  The CWD is in sys.path only for interactive
> sessions, and when started with -c switch.  When running scripts, the
> directory where the script is located is used instead, not the
> process's working directory.

Okay, so s/CWD/directory containing __main__ script/, but the general
argument still holds.

> So, no, it isn't anything like dynamic scoping.

That's what it looks like to me. The way that an import name is resolved
depends upon the run-time context in which the import occurs.

>> The only situation where the process' CWD should be used is for an import
>> statement in a non-file source (i.e. stdin or the argument to the -c
>> switch).
> 
> It already is that way, chief.
> 
> I think you're misunderstanding what's wrong here; the CWD doesn't
> have anything to do with it.  Even if CWD isn't in the path you still
> get the bad behavior kj noted.  So now what?

Search for imports first in the directory containing the file performing
the import.

This is essentially the situation with gcc; the directory containing the
current file takes precedence over directories specified by -I switches.
If you want to override this, you have to use the -I- switch, which makes
it very unlikely to happen by accident.



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:21:20 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:21:20 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <4B699BD4.1010703@gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B699BD4.1010703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030921t217f0438ubc7ca5f5fdea41a5@mail.gmail.com>

>> Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
>> environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be
>> if system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
>> portions of text from internal database-alike representation.
>>
>
> I think every IDE (not older than 20 years) does that already.

And fix every reference to it in all files? For python? I don't think
so. I even don't think this is possible at all. That if several
different objects have a similar named method? How will IDE "classify"
calls and renames only some of calls and not others?

Vladimir Ignatov


From tinnews at isbd.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 12:33:21 2010
From: tinnews at isbd.co.uk (tinnews at isbd.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:33:21 +0000
Subject: test -- please ignore
References: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com> <87wryumvff.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hkc7uu$jt$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1koo37-18b.ln1@chris.isbd.net>

kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:
> In <87wryumvff.fsf at benfinney.id.au> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
> 
> >kj <no.email at please.post> writes:
> 
> >> (my replies in a different comp.lang.python thread are getting
> >> rejected by the server; i have no problem posting to alt.test; and
> >> i'm trying to toubleshoot the problem further.)
> 
> >Thank you for this explanation. It is important to know that you've
> >tried the less obtrusive diagnostics first. Good hunting.
> 
> I figured out the immediate reason for the failure: when replying
> to *certain posts*, my newsreader omits the Newsgroups header from
> the response.  Why it does this is still a mystery to me, but at
> least now I know what to look out for.  Then again, I use the
> "venerable" (i.e. decrepit) nn as newsreader, so this discovery
> probably won't help many of those reading this...

I used to use nn, now I use tin which is fairly similar and still
being maintained.

-- 
Chris Green



From cp.astolfi at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:47:08 2010
From: cp.astolfi at gmail.com (Cpa)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:47:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with os.system
Message-ID: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi there,

I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
*.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.

But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
(I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).

I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.

Any idea ?
Thanks,
Cpa


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:54:20 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:54:20 -0500
Subject: Trouble with os.system
In-Reply-To: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002030954t7768a374l9cfcf5127c56f4d7@mail.gmail.com>

Can you post your code?

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Cpa <cp.astolfi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
> I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
> In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
> *.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.
>
> But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
> correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
> (I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).
>
> I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
> files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.
>
> Any idea ?
> Thanks,
> Cpa
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From cp.astolfi at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:58:43 2010
From: cp.astolfi at gmail.com (Cpa)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:58:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with os.system
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Sure.

import sys,re,os
files2create = sys.argv[1:]
os.system('mkdir tmp')

# Some code to create the .tex

# Compile tex files
os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')

Pretty simple, alas.

--
Cpa


On 3 f?v, 18:54, Gerald Britton <gerald.brit... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you post your code?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Cpa <cp.asto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi there,
>
> > I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
> > I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
> > In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
> > *.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.
>
> > But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
> > correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
> > (I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).
>
> > I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
> > files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.
>
> > Any idea ?
> > Thanks,
> > Cpa
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> Gerald Britton



From alan at baselinedata.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 13:01:14 2010
From: alan at baselinedata.co.uk (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:01:14 +0000
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
Message-ID: <4B69B9EA.1040503@baselinedata.co.uk>

I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to 
enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The 
buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but 
this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the 
correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL 
directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).

Is there another way of passing a record-id to a method
a) without it appearing in the URL?
b) without the user being able to fathom-out how to attach which id to 
which URL?

As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone 
from getting the id from the page source-code.  Is it safe to use the 
above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password 
stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the edit/delete 
action?

I am currently using CherryPy 3.2, but I guess the theory could apply to 
any HTTP framework or web app..

Any help would be appreciated.  
Alan Harris-Reid



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:05:30 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:05:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 3:10?am, Vladimir Ignatov <kmis... at gmail.com> wrote:

> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

That's fine so long as I can also treat the source as source, at need.

You may have just reinvented Smalltalk's Squeak editor (reputedly the
testbed for all of modern GUIs...).

Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.

That's why I wrote this:

http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:08:53 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:08:53 -0500
Subject: Trouble with os.system
In-Reply-To: <8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002031008o332c5da9i580f023270a84ba7@mail.gmail.com>

It kinda worked for me but I had to change it a little:

os.system('for file in /tmp/*.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done')

Maybe you're picking up other files in /tmp that  are not .tex files?

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Cpa <cp.astolfi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sure.
>
> import sys,re,os
> files2create = sys.argv[1:]
> os.system('mkdir tmp')
>
> # Some code to create the .tex
>
> # Compile tex files
> os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>
> Pretty simple, alas.
>
> --
> Cpa
>
>
> On 3 f?v, 18:54, Gerald Britton <gerald.brit... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can you post your code?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Cpa <cp.asto... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi there,
>>
>> > I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
>> > I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
>> > In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
>> > *.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.
>>
>> > But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
>> > correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
>> > (I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).
>>
>> > I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
>> > files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.
>>
>> > Any idea ?
>> > Thanks,
>> > Cpa
>> > --
>> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>> --
>> Gerald Britton
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 13:11:33 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:11:33 -0600
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>

Alan Harris-Reid <alan at baselinedata.co.uk> writes:

> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).

You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying information.

> Is there another way of passing a record-id to a method
> a) without it appearing in the URL?

Use a POST request. Note that the user still has to select something,
and that this information is send by the browser, and hence the user can
see this information (and maybe others), and repeat the action with, for
example, a Python program.

> b) without the user being able to fathom-out how to attach which id to
> which URL?

I am not sure what you want to prevent here. If you're afraid that user
A can delete things that belong user B, than "hiding" things or making
them "hard to guess" are not going to help much. If you have several
users, you must use some login procedure (and sessions).

> As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone
> from getting the id from the page source-code.  Is it safe to use the
> above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password
> stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the
> edit/delete action?

Yes. But still make sure that session ids are not easy to guess, and
expire. And make very sure that session ids can't leak to others.

Moreover, each time you modify a database use POST. One could argue to
also use POST for logging out, otherwise another site might be able to
log your users out if they visit that site.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 13:12:48 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:12:48 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xwryudw7z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Alan Harris-Reid <alan at baselinedata.co.uk> writes:
> As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone
> from getting the id from the page source-code.  Is it safe to use the
> above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password
> stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the
> edit/delete action?

Well, if it's really ok for them to delete records programmatically even
if it's ok for them to delete through the web site.  I'd probably
encrypt the post parameters if this was a concern.  


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 13:22:22 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:22:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org> 
	<e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<bb7ede09-86a9-4c41-a643-309a344e9729@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3cdf9936-035f-43db-abb0-a7daacac14ab@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:37?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 10:03?pm, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 12:45?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Everyone,
>
> > > I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
> > > GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
> > > arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:
>
> > >http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
> > > In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
> > > features in this release:
>
> > > - Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
> > > - Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
> > > - Performance improvements by improved caching.
> > > - Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
> > > - Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
> > > - Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
> > > ? longer recognized.
>
> > > Changes since 1.11rc1:
> > > - Recognizes GMP 5.
> > > - Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).
>
> > > Comments on provided binaries
>
> > > The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
> > > 1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
> > > optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
> > > compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
> > > instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.
>
> > > Please report any issues!
>
> > My previous replies didn't show up. Something to do the .announce
> > group? I'll trim that and try again. Sorry if they show up eventually.
>
> > Two issues:
>
> > 1] why does both gmpy 1.11 and gmpy 1.11rc1 both reply
>
> > >>> gmpy.version()
>
> > '1.11'
>
> > Aren't these different versions? How are we supposed to tell them
> > apart?
>
> Check the name of source tarball?
>
> gmpy._cvsid() will return the internal source code revision number.
> The changes made in each revision number are listed athttp://code.google.com/p/gmpy/source/list.

So, '$Id: gmpy.c 237 2010-01-10 03:46:37Z casevh $' would be Revision
237
on that source list?

>
> I know some applications check gmpy.version(). I don't know if they'll
> work if the format of the string changes.

Then gmpy.version() isn't really intended to be a version per se,
it's just a level of compatibility for those programs that care?

>
>
>
> > 2] Is it true that the only changes since 1.11rc1 are not
> > ? ?applicable to me since
>
> > ? ?- I'm not using Windows
> > ? ?- whether it recognizes GMP 5 is moot as GMP 5 cannot be
> > ? ? ?compiled on a Mac (according to GMP site)
>
> Yes. The only change for GMP 5 was to recognize the new version number
> when running the tests.

Good.

>
>
>
> > Is it possible GMP's problems with getting GMP 5 to compile
> > are the same ones I had with 3.1 on Snow Leopard? (They bemoan
> > not having a set of every Mac system.) Think it would behoove
> > me to try it?
>
> According to comments on GMP's mailing list, the latest snapshot
> should work.ftp://ftp.gmplib.org/pub/snapshot/
>

I'll have to see if I can get it to work this weekend. I sure hope I
don't muck it up after after all the trouble I had getting the
previous
one to work.

Thanks for the links.

>
>
>
>
> > > casevh



From python-url at phaseit.net  Wed Feb  3 13:22:58 2010
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:22:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb  3)
Message-ID: <hkceu2$v9q$1@lairds.us>

QOTW:  "I think, in the spirit of the topic, they should hold it at both
places at the same time." - Brian Blais, on whether the Python Concurrency
Workshop, v2.0, should be in Chicago or Denver (in January!)


    The fastest way to consume an iterable until exhaustion:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/c1ae3513a31eb63e/
    
    When inheriting from a built-in class, it isn't obvious which of
    __new__ / __init__ should be overriden:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a453c65be4e0f355/
    
    When importing a module, Python may pick the wrong one due to name
    clashes -- is this avoidable?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fe6430e7980e2a96/
    
    Setting a default encoding for 'print' statements:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/2fb77c8989f63f9d/
    
    Despite its name, the iglob function (in module glob) isn't completely
    lazy:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/d9a8617ec85e926d/
    
    list.pop(0) has very poor performance; collections.deque works better
    in some cases; patch to allow lists to free elements from head (not just
    from tail):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/9221d87f93748b3f/
    
    How to parse ill-formed postal addresses:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/76a4ab9fd7279a4e/
    
    The future of Python 3:
        Adoption by Linux distros and package maintainers:
            http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/69463c4b9b1ecd8f/
        Library support:
            http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/ae138cefffed0d6b/
        Myths and fallacies:
            http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/8b8f4a9f999e33e8/
    
    Why choose Python (and not Ruby) in an introductory course to programming:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/dfe4f6c60032755e/
    
    How an extension module (written in C) may perform cleaning tasks:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fbcb22b4401eaef1/
    
    "Really, the built-in scope is just a built-in module called builtins,
    but you have to import builtins to query built-ins because the name
    builtins is not itself built-in..." (Lutz & Ascher, 'Programming Python')
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/dc719a4d922f2f87/
    
    A new implementation of the GIL allows for much better performance
    in multicore architectures:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/586ef2d3685fa7ea/
    
    After a year of work with relative success, Unladen Swallow (a
    Google sponsored CPython improvement project) asks to be officially
    recognized:
        http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/109919

    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" site:
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 13:24:43 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:24:43 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zl3qdvo4.fsf@castleamber.com>

Vladimir Ignatov <kmisoft at gmail.com> writes:

> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

Your idea is certainly not new. Moreover, I've been using such an IDE
and implemented support for a (small) language in it:

   Programs are hierarchical compositions of formulae satisfying
   structural and extra-structural relationships. A program editor can
   use knowledge of such relationships to detect and provide immediate
   feedback about violations of them. The Synthesizer Generator is a
   tool for creating such editors from language descriptions. An editor
   designer specifies the desired relationships and the feedback to be
   given when they are violated, as well as a user interface; from the
   specification, the Synthesizer Generator creates a full-screen editor
   for manipulating programs in the language.

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=390010.808247

It might be a good start to read as much as possible on the Synthesizer
Generator if you want to write such an IDE for Python. I am sure you
could write such an IDE in the Synthesizer Generator, but I have no idea
if it's still available. And back when I used it (at university) one had
to pay for it, and most likely was closed source as well.

See also: http://www.google.com/search?q=synthesizer%20generator

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From casevh at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:36:22 2010
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:36:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org> 
	<e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<bb7ede09-86a9-4c41-a643-309a344e9729@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<3cdf9936-035f-43db-abb0-a7daacac14ab@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <167d472a-9981-4575-b463-a36413ed657e@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:22?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:37?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 10:03?pm, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 2, 12:45?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Everyone,
>
> > > > I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
> > > > GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
> > > > arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:
>
> > > >http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
> > > > In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
> > > > features in this release:
>
> > > > - Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
> > > > - Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
> > > > - Performance improvements by improved caching.
> > > > - Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
> > > > - Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
> > > > - Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
> > > > ? longer recognized.
>
> > > > Changes since 1.11rc1:
> > > > - Recognizes GMP 5.
> > > > - Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).
>
> > > > Comments on provided binaries
>
> > > > The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
> > > > 1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
> > > > optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
> > > > compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
> > > > instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.
>
> > > > Please report any issues!
>
> > > My previous replies didn't show up. Something to do the .announce
> > > group? I'll trim that and try again. Sorry if they show up eventually.
>
> > > Two issues:
>
> > > 1] why does both gmpy 1.11 and gmpy 1.11rc1 both reply
>
> > > >>> gmpy.version()
>
> > > '1.11'
>
> > > Aren't these different versions? How are we supposed to tell them
> > > apart?
>
> > Check the name of source tarball?
>
> > gmpy._cvsid() will return the internal source code revision number.
> > The changes made in each revision number are listed athttp://code.google.com/p/gmpy/source/list.
>
> So, '$Id: gmpy.c 237 2010-01-10 03:46:37Z casevh $' would be Revision
> 237
> on that source list?
>
Correct.
>
>
> > I know some applications check gmpy.version(). I don't know if they'll
> > work if the format of the string changes.
>
> Then gmpy.version() isn't really intended to be a version per se,
> it's just a level of compatibility for those programs that care?

Historically, gmpy really didn't have alpha/beta/rc versions and
gmpy.version() just had the version "number" and didn't indicate the
status. If I change it, I'd rather go to "1.1.1rc1" or "1.2.0a0" but
that might break some applications.

>
>
>
> > > 2] Is it true that the only changes since 1.11rc1 are not
> > > ? ?applicable to me since
>
> > > ? ?- I'm not using Windows
> > > ? ?- whether it recognizes GMP 5 is moot as GMP 5 cannot be
> > > ? ? ?compiled on a Mac (according to GMP site)
>
> > Yes. The only change for GMP 5 was to recognize the new version number
> > when running the tests.
>
> Good.
>
>
>
> > > Is it possible GMP's problems with getting GMP 5 to compile
> > > are the same ones I had with 3.1 on Snow Leopard? (They bemoan
> > > not having a set of every Mac system.) Think it would behoove
> > > me to try it?
>
> > According to comments on GMP's mailing list, the latest snapshot
> > should work.ftp://ftp.gmplib.org/pub/snapshot/
>
> I'll have to see if I can get it to work this weekend. I sure hope I
> don't muck it up after after all the trouble I had getting the
> previous
> one to work.
>
> Thanks for the links.
>
>
>
> > > > casevh
>
>



From cp.astolfi at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:42:44 2010
From: cp.astolfi at gmail.com (Cpa)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with os.system
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1843.1265220537.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <501794ef-bc0c-477f-a282-33b1d4a6c4af@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

No, the tmp folder only contains files, and your modification still
won't work for me.

By the way I have the same error if I do:

files2compile = os.listdir('./tmp/')
for f in files2compile:
    os.system('pdflatex '+f)

--
Cp

On 3 f?v, 19:08, Gerald Britton <gerald.brit... at gmail.com> wrote:
> It kinda worked for me but I had to change it a little:
>
> os.system('for file in /tmp/*.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>
> Maybe you're picking up other files in /tmp that ?are not .tex files?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Cpa <cp.asto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sure.
>
> > import sys,re,os
> > files2create = sys.argv[1:]
> > os.system('mkdir tmp')
>
> > # Some code to create the .tex
>
> > # Compile tex files
> > os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>
> > Pretty simple, alas.
>
> > --
> > Cpa
>
> > On 3 f?v, 18:54, Gerald Britton <gerald.brit... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Can you post your code?
>
> >> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Cpa <cp.asto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi there,
>
> >> > I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
> >> > I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
> >> > In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
> >> > *.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.
>
> >> > But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
> >> > correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
> >> > (I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).
>
> >> > I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
> >> > files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.
>
> >> > Any idea ?
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Cpa
> >> > --
> >> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> >> --
> >> Gerald Britton
>
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> Gerald Britton



From python at rcn.com  Wed Feb  3 13:42:51 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:42:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
Message-ID: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team, http://saucelabs.com/about/team,
is hosting two free tutorial open space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.

In the short session, people bringing their laptops should be able to
record a web session in their browser, convert the recorded activity
to a Python script, modify the script to accept a number of inputs ,
and replay the script locally on their laptops.  Once you've learned
how to fully automate your own browser, submit the same script to the
Sauce Labs cloud to run the tests in parallel across multiple browsers
and operating systems, and view the results with instant video
playback.

The tutorials should be of interest to web developers wanting fast,
cross-browser testing and it should be of general interest to anyone
wanting to use Python to automate browser sessions.

The tutorials are being led by Jason Huggins, the creator of Selenium
(an open source web app testing tool http://seleniumhq.org/ ).
Several familiar names from the Python community will also be on-hand:
http://saucelabs.com/about/news/feb-03-2010

Raymond



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:54:14 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:54:14 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002030921t217f0438ubc7ca5f5fdea41a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>	<c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>	<4B699BD4.1010703@gmail.com>
	<c02acca21002030921t217f0438ubc7ca5f5fdea41a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B69C656.3050402@gmail.com>

On 03-02-2010 18:21, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>>> Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
>>> environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be
>>> if system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
>>> portions of text from internal database-alike representation.
>>>
>>>        
>> I think every IDE (not older than 20 years) does that already.
>>      
> And fix every reference to it in all files? For python? I don't think
> so. I even don't think this is possible at all.
with tools like inspect it certainly should be possible
>   That if several
> different objects have a similar named method? How will IDE "classify"
> calls and renames only some of calls and not others?
>    
yep, you're right,
the IDE's I use have as the beste  "search / select / rename".

But how often do you must/want to rename something (mature) ?

cheers,
Stef
> Vladimir Ignatov
>    



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Feb  3 13:57:51 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:57:51 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1265223471.7916.25.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 10:05 -0800, Phlip wrote:
> On Feb 3, 3:10 am, Vladimir Ignatov <kmis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> > bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> > new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> > dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> > should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> > of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> > product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
> That's fine so long as I can also treat the source as source, at need.
> You may have just reinvented Smalltalk's Squeak editor (reputedly the
> testbed for all of modern GUIs...).
> Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
> it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.

?  I edit Python in MonoDevelop  2.2;  and I can browse my file,
classes, etc...  So I don't know what you mean by "can't see into the
code".  It works pretty well.

Of course it can't tell that I've set x = {an integer}, as that only
happens at runtime.

> That's why I wrote this:
> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html




From astan.chee at al.com.au  Wed Feb  3 14:12:22 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:12:22 +1100
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.15.48.19.390000@nowhere.com>
References: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>	<mailman.1801.1265144876.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.15.48.19.390000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <4B69CA96.3090908@al.com.au>

Nobody wrote:
> The code you're using expects the XML to follow a particular format, and
> yours doesn't.
>
> You might want to start with a fairly direct translation, e.g.:
>
> def xmldict(e):
>     d = {}
>     d['tag'] = e.tag
>     d.update(e.attrib)
>     children = map(xmldict, e)
>     if children:
> 	d['children'] = children
>     text = e.text.strip()
>     if text:
> 	d['text'] = text
>     return d
>
> tree = ElementTree.parse('test.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
> d = xmldict(root)
> pprint.pprint(d)
>
> then refine this as needed.
>   
Thanks, that is simple enough for me to understand. I think I got it now.
Thanks again


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:13:37 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:13:37 -0500
Subject: Trouble with os.system
In-Reply-To: <8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <16651e81002031113k56fa1888kd600239627ab926e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Cpa <cp.astolfi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sure.
>
> import sys,re,os
> files2create = sys.argv[1:]
> os.system('mkdir tmp')
>
> # Some code to create the .tex
>
> # Compile tex files
> os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>
> Pretty simple, alas.

I think your bug is in the lines you chose not to share with us.  I
bet you've forgotten to close the last file you create, so that file
has changes that haven't been flushed out to the disk yet.  Make sure
you call close() on each of the files when you're done writing them.

-- 
Jerry


From cp.astolfi at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:15:56 2010
From: cp.astolfi at gmail.com (Charles-Pierre Astolfi)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:15:56 +0100
Subject: Trouble with os.system
In-Reply-To: <16651e81002031113k56fa1888kd600239627ab926e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<16651e81002031113k56fa1888kd600239627ab926e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e6e449121002031115w33872f40pd1a8692ed710cd9c@mail.gmail.com>

That was it ! What a stupid error...

Thank you !
-- 
Cp



On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 20:13, Jerry Hill <malaclypse2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Cpa <cp.astolfi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sure.
>>
>> import sys,re,os
>> files2create = sys.argv[1:]
>> os.system('mkdir tmp')
>>
>> # Some code to create the .tex
>>
>> # Compile tex files
>> os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>>
>> Pretty simple, alas.
>
> I think your bug is in the lines you chose not to share with us. ?I
> bet you've forgotten to close the last file you create, so that file
> has changes that haven't been flushed out to the disk yet. ?Make sure
> you call close() on each of the files when you're done writing them.
>
> --
> Jerry
>


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 14:22:59 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:22:59 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkciei$cbr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Don't give it another thought. I'd much rather you cared than you didn't ...

regards
 Steve

kj wrote:
> 
> Steve, I apologize for the snarkiness of my previous reply to you.
> After all, I started the thread by asking the forum for advice on
> how to avoid a certain kind of bugs, you were among those who gave
> me advice.  So nothing other than thanking you for it was in order.
> I just let myself get carried away by my annoyance with the Python
> import scheme.  I'm sorry about it.  Even though I don't think I
> can put to practice all of your advice, I can still learn a good
> deal from it.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ~kj
> 
> 
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
>> kj wrote:
>>>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>>> ...*if* you happen to be clairvoyant.  I still don't see how the rest of us
>>> could have followed this fine principle in the case of numbers.py
>>> prior to Python 2.6.
>>>
>> Clearly the more you know about the standard library the less likely
>> this is to be a problem. Had you been migrqating from an earlier version
>> the breakage would have alerted you to look for some version-dependent
>> difference.
> 
> <snip>
> 


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 14:23:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:23:53 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkcig8$cbr$2@ger.gmane.org>

kj wrote:
> In <hkbv23$c07$1 at reader2.panix.com> kj <no.email at please.post> writes:
> 
> 
>> Steve, I apologize for the snarkiness of my previous reply to you.
>> After all, I started the thread by asking the forum for advice on
>> how to avoid a certain kind of bugs, you were among those who gave
>> me advice.  So nothing other than thanking you for it was in order.
>> I just let myself get carried away by my annoyance with the Python
>> import scheme.  I'm sorry about it.  Even though I don't think I
>> can put to practice all of your advice, I can still learn a good
>> deal from it.
> 
> 
> Boy, that was dumb of me.  The above apology was meant for Stephen
> Hansen, not Steve Holden.  I guess this is now a meta-apology...
> (Sheesh.)
> 
Oh, so you don't like *my* advice? ;-)

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:30:04 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:30:04 +0100
Subject: The best library to create charting application
Message-ID: <hkciq3$dko$1@ger.gmane.org>


The application will display (elaborate) financial charts.

Pygame? Smth else?

<duck>dotnet?


Regards,
mk



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:38:57 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:38:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:57?am, Adam Tauno Williams <awill... at opengroupware.us>
wrote:

> > Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
> > it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.
>
> ? ?I edit Python in MonoDevelop ?2.2; ?and I can browse my file,
> classes, etc... ?So I don't know what you mean by "can't see into the
> code". ?It works pretty well.
>
> Of course it can't tell that I've set x = {an integer}, as that only
> happens at runtime.
>
> > That's why I wrote this:
> > http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html

You just said that your code browsing "works pretty well, except when
it doesn't".

Hence my blog entry. If your editor analyzed your code at runtime,
instead of just static analysis, then it could see that x = an
integer, or an object, no matter how dynamic your language.

--
  Phlip
  http://zeekland.zeroplayer.com/Uncle_Wiggilys_Travels/1


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:43:23 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:43:23 -0800
Subject: The best library to create charting application
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1851.1265225395.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1851.1265225395.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wlkan.5230$4N4.3164@newsfe24.iad>

mk wrote:
> 
> The application will display (elaborate) financial charts.
> 
> Pygame? Smth else?

Back in the day it was Python BLT.

Are you on the Web or the Desktop?

-- 
   Phlip
   http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:50:43 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:50:43 +0100
Subject: The best library to create charting application
In-Reply-To: <wlkan.5230$4N4.3164@newsfe24.iad>
References: <mailman.1851.1265225395.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<wlkan.5230$4N4.3164@newsfe24.iad>
Message-ID: <hkck0r$j7l$1@ger.gmane.org>

Phlip wrote:
> mk wrote:
>>
>> The application will display (elaborate) financial charts.
>>
>> Pygame? Smth else?
> 
> Back in the day it was Python BLT.
> 
> Are you on the Web or the Desktop?
> 

Desktop, really (there should be some nominal web interface but the main 
application will be desktop)

Regards,
mk



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 14:59:17 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:59:17 -0500
Subject: exec within function
In-Reply-To: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkckik$lfg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 3:30 AM, Simon zack wrote:
> hi,
> I'm not sure how I can use exec within a function correctly
> here is the code i'm using:
>
> def a():
>      exec('b=1')
>      print(b)
>
> a()
>
> this will raise an error, but I would like to see it outputting 1

Always **copy and paste** **complete error tracebacks** when asking a 
question like this. (The only exception would be if it is v e r y long, 
as with hitting the recursion depth limit of 1000.)



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 15:08:35 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:08:35 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87vdeedqv0.fsf@castleamber.com>

Phlip <phlip2005 at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 3, 10:57?am, Adam Tauno Williams <awill... at opengroupware.us>
> wrote:
>
>> > Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
>> > it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.
>>
>> ? ?I edit Python in MonoDevelop ?2.2; ?and I can browse my file,
>> classes, etc... ?So I don't know what you mean by "can't see into the
>> code". ?It works pretty well.
>>
>> Of course it can't tell that I've set x = {an integer}, as that only
>> happens at runtime.
>>
>> > That's why I wrote this:
>> > http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html
>
> You just said that your code browsing "works pretty well, except when
> it doesn't".
>
> Hence my blog entry. If your editor analyzed your code at runtime,
> instead of just static analysis, then it could see that x = an
> integer, or an object, no matter how dynamic your language.

In Perl:

my $x = ( 5, "hello", sub {}, [], {} )[ int rand 5 ];

what's $x? The answer is: it depends. 

Moreover, even if your editor analyzes your code at runtime (which is
certainly not always desirable) it might not be able to find out what
the type is of x, simply because it would take too much time to find it
out. (It sounds like you want an editor that solves the halting problem
;-) )

I agree with you that to /some extent/ and editor can do analyses, if it
does compilation as well (and even runs the code, but the latter is not
always desirable). I mentioned the Synthesizer Generator before, which
can do compilation on the fly, if you implement it (or if it has been
implemented for the language you edit with it). I've written a very
simple assembler in it, ages ago, which did assembling on the fly.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 15:09:01 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:09:01 -0500
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <6b65c778-f905-4eb6-b077-523fbea8e22c@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6b65c778-f905-4eb6-b077-523fbea8e22c@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkcl4r$nql$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 6:31 AM, Joan Miller wrote:

>>> I've read that Pyro is not safe.
>>
>> That's a fairly broad thing to say. I've read lots
>> of things. What does "is not safe" mean, in any case?
>> I assume you've got a valid concern in mind which is
>> worth passing on to a would-be user, but what exactly
>> is it? FWIW I've used Pyro on and off over the years
>> without any problems. Certainly my computer's never
>> blown up as a result of using it.
>> From its own page:
> "Pyro has never been truly designed to provide a secure communication
> mechanism, nor has it had a security review or -test by a security
> expert."
> http://pyro.sourceforge.net/features.html

For communication between processes on one machine, that hardly seems to 
be a worry. If it were, I would expect that sending encrypted strings 
would substantially improve things.

That aside, I would wonder whether you could use a master process with a 
gui to haphazardly launch subprocess, so as to avail oneself of 
multiprocessing.Queue.

Terry Jan Reedy



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 15:10:33 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:10:33 -0600
Subject: The best library to create charting application
References: <mailman.1851.1265225395.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r5p2dqrq.fsf@castleamber.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:

> The application will display (elaborate) financial charts.
>
> Pygame? Smth else?

You might want to check out the book "Beginning Python
Visualisation".

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 15:18:51 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:18:51 -0500
Subject: expy 0.5.2 released
In-Reply-To: <857729.7198.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <857729.7198.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <hkclna$q5p$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 1:43 AM, Yingjie Lan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> expy is an expressway to extend python.
>
> in release 0.5.2, expy now supports custom exceptions, besides all built-in ones, and exception handling is made easy.
>
> for more info, see
>
> http://expy.sourceforge.net/

What Python versions does it work with?
There is no indication either above or on the sf page.

tjr



From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:29:15 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:29:15 -0500
Subject: exec within function
In-Reply-To: <hkckik$lfg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkckik$lfg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002031229g64321cbeo538de15417127715@mail.gmail.com>

I get no error:

>>> def a():
...  exec('b=1')
...  print(b)
...
>>> a()
1
>>>


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 2/3/2010 3:30 AM, Simon zack wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>> I'm not sure how I can use exec within a function correctly
>> here is the code i'm using:
>>
>> def a():
>> ? ? exec('b=1')
>> ? ? print(b)
>>
>> a()
>>
>> this will raise an error, but I would like to see it outputting 1
>
> Always **copy and paste** **complete error tracebacks** when asking a
> question like this. (The only exception would be if it is v e r y long, as
> with hitting the recursion depth limit of 1000.)
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From drsalists at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:33:25 2010
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:33:25 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
In-Reply-To: <b8d22a39-b7d4-4244-a35b-f7fdb62a4788@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<9a28cf01-20af-4ce2-9b78-d8529800e4b9@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<b8d22a39-b7d4-4244-a35b-f7fdb62a4788@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B69DD95.2050906@gmail.com>

Joan Miller wrote:
> On 28 ene, 21:40, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> wrote:
>   
>> On Jan 28, 10:20 am, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> I've to call to many functions with the format:
>>>       
>>>>>> run("cmd")
>>>>>>             
>>> were "cmd" is a command with its arguments to pass them to the shell
>>> and run it, i.e.
>>>       
>>>>>>  run("pwd")
>>>>>>             
>>> or
>>>       
>>>>>> run("ls /home")
>>>>>>             
>>> Does anybody knows any library to help me to avoid the use of the main
>>> quotes, and brackets?
>>>       
>>> I would to use anything as:
>>>       
>>> $ ls /home => run("ls /home")
>>>       
>>> or, at least
>>>       
>>> run pwd => run("pwd")
>>>       
>> How about this?
>>
>> def pwd(): return run("pwd")
>>
>> pwd()
>>
>> def ls(l=False, files=()):
>>     args = []
>>     if l: args.insert(0, '-l')
>>     args.append(files)
>>     return run("ls", args)
>>
>> ls(l=True, "/foo")
>>     
>
> There would be to make a function for each system command to use so it
> would be too inefficient, and follow the problem with the quotes.
>
> The best is make a parser into a compiled language
>   
'disagree.

Best is to have a text file outside your program, in which you define 
commands and symbolic names for those commands.

Then you have a python module which reads these commands and names, and 
creates functions that invoke them via the specified name.

This way you get concise syntax, don't have to type as much boilerplate, 
and don't add line noise.

Mixing two languages as though they were the same language greatly 
increases the complexity of the original language with little gain.

Consider PowerShell - it's almost like two different languages smushed 
together, and you have to know how a command was implemented to know how 
to read it.

Also, what if someday The Powers That Be (the python language core 
designers) decide they need to use $ for something?  I hope they won't, 
but if they do, your preprocessor might make quite a mess of it.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 15:34:52 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:34:52 -0500
Subject: newbie qns : how do i use xmldiff?
In-Reply-To: <e9313ffe-8192-41c8-a995-1c71f98e15d0@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <e9313ffe-8192-41c8-a995-1c71f98e15d0@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkcmlb$ch$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 1:38 AM, sWrath swrath wrote:
> Hi ,
>
> I am pretty new to python , and reading up on it.
>
> Basically I am trying to compare xml files . I know difflib have it
> but it does not work out as expected. I was looking at xmldiff ,
> unfortunately I am not able to find documentation how to call it from
> python. Anyone knows a link or doc to it as I have been looking high
> and low for few days?

When asking such a question, it is good to explain what sort of thing, 
in this case, 'xmldiff' is and where it is is from. Let us assume you 
meant xmldiff from

http://www.logilab.org/859

It says it is a python tool that can "be used be used as a library or as 
a command line tool." It includes a README file. Have you read that? 
That says "USAGE ... Read the HELP.txt file.". Have you read *that*?
HELP.txt seems to focus on command line usage. I would start with that. 
To use it as a library (via import ...), you might have to look at the 
source code as I did not see importing covered in my quick look at that 
file.

Terry Jan Reedy




From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 15:38:19 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:38:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org> 
	<e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<bb7ede09-86a9-4c41-a643-309a344e9729@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<3cdf9936-035f-43db-abb0-a7daacac14ab@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<167d472a-9981-4575-b463-a36413ed657e@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <00b3d248-85a3-4cfc-a083-88a405a47e2c@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 12:36?pm, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:22?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Historically, gmpy really didn't have alpha/beta/rc versions and
> gmpy.version() just had the version "number" and didn't indicate the
> status. If I change it, I'd rather go to "1.1.1rc1" or "1.2.0a0" but
> that might break some applications.

Ok. And historically, we never had Python 2.5, 2.6, 2.7 & 3.1
to support simultaneously with Windows Xp, Vista and 7 along
with Mac OSX 10.4, 10.5,& 10.6 as well as whatever flavors
Linnux comes it.

Not to mention that there's now two flavors of GMP.

How many different permutations do you suppose that is?
Thinking about it makes my head hurt. I certainly fell
sympathy towards you developers.


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Wed Feb  3 15:40:51 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:40:51 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>

Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?


Robert


From drsalists at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:41:43 2010
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:41:43 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
In-Reply-To: <87vdelwitb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<slrnhm3ojr.lqh.jrh@polaris.joshh.co.uk>	<b9c88f31-832d-4810-9032-79b8fc4f6379@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87vdelwitb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4B69DF87.4030207@gmail.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
>   
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:24:28 -0800 (PST), Joan Miller:
>>     
>>> On 28 ene, 19:16, Josh Holland <j... at joshh.co.uk> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Check the docs on os.system().
>>>>         
>>> No. I've a function that uses subprocess to run commands on the same
>>> shell and so substitute to bash scrips. But a script full of run
>>> ("shell_command --with --arguments") is too verbose.
>>>       
>> 	I shall blaspheme, and suggest that maybe the language you want
>> to use is REXX (ooREXX or Regina).
>>     
>
> Heh. That isn't blasphemy, because no true Pythonista [0] would claim
> Python to be the god of that domain.
>
> It's no sin to say that Python isn't a good choice for specific things;
> and ?I want to write programs by indistinguishably mixing statements
> with external system calls? is one of them, IMO
>From 
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~dstromberg/debugging-with-syscall-tracers.html#terminology

    A quick note on terminology: open() is typically a system call.
    fopen is probably never a system call - instead, it is a function in
    the C library that wraps open(), making open() easier to use. Then
    there's the system() function - like fopen(), it isn't really a
    system call, despite its name. Rather, it is a C library function
    that typically will wrap the fork() and exec*() system calls.




From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:44:05 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<87vdeedqv0.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <f422fbad-e984-4fd9-b11d-e34c241dfe4b@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

John Bokma wrote:

> my $x = ( 5, "hello", sub {}, [], {} )[ int rand 5 ];
>
> what's $x? The answer is: it depends.

That's why my blog post advocated (as usual for me) developer tests.
Then you either mock the rand, like all developers should, or you get
what you pay for, and Principle of Least Surprise still applies...

Over the past decade, teams discovered that developer tests more than
made up for the lack of rigor in dynamic languages. A dynamic language
with tests can be more productive than a static language, even with
its runtime type checks AND with its tests.

However, our editors must catch up to us. When I test, I am statically
declaring a set of types, even if the language would prefer to
dynamically fling them hither and yon. We should leverage that.

--
  Phlip


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 15:44:29 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:44:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net> 
	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
	<800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net> 
	<4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1826.1265197019.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0e582f33-718c-4c46-9c14-c07447474634@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 11:36?am, Masklinn <maskl... at masklinn.net> wrote:

Well, Xavier,

I would be the first to agree that the existing logging configuration
API is not ideal. There are a number of reasons for the current
ConfigParser schema used (e.g. an old GUI for configuring logging,
which was there before the logging package was added to Python, but
which was not brought across). However, there is no point in
nitpicking over the particular shortcomings you've focused on, unless
of course you've run out of bikesheds to paint ;-)

Particularly as I've just received the good news from Guido van Rossum
that PEP 391 (Dictionary-Based Configuration For Logging) has been
accepted, and my aim is to get it into Python 2.7 and Python 3.2.

Now, PEP 391 was announced on python-list and python-dev in October
2009, so plenty of people have had an opportunity to comment on it.
Going forwards, and over time, I would hope that this configuration
scheme will supplant the ConfigParser-based approach, and so I don't
think there's much need to tinker with that API.

Onwards, upwards, ever forwards :-)

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb  3 15:50:38 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:50:38 +0100
Subject: exec within function
References: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkckik$lfg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1856.1265228962.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkcni3$cic$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Gerald Britton wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 2/3/2010 3:30 AM, Simon zack wrote:
>>>
>>> hi,
>>> I'm not sure how I can use exec within a function correctly
>>> here is the code i'm using:
>>>
>>> def a():
>>> exec('b=1')
>>> print(b)
>>>
>>> a()
>>>
>>> this will raise an error, but I would like to see it outputting 1
>>
>> Always **copy and paste** **complete error tracebacks** when asking a
>> question like this. (The only exception would be if it is v e r y long,
>> as with hitting the recursion depth limit of 1000.)

> I get no error:
> 
>>>> def a():
> ...  exec('b=1')
> ...  print(b)
> ...
>>>> a()
> 1

My crystal ball says you're using Python 2.x. Try it again, this time in 
3.x:
 
Python 3.1.1+ (r311:74480, Nov  2 2009, 15:45:00)
[GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def f():
...     exec('a = 42')
...     print(a)
...
>>> f()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
NameError: global name 'a' is not defined

OP: Python 2.x generates different bytecode for functions containing an exec 
statement. In 3.x this statement is gone and exec() has become a normal 
function. I suppose you now have to pass a namespace explicitly:


>>> def f():
...     ns = {}
...     exec("a=1", ns)
...     print(ns["a"])
...
>>> f()
1

Peter


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 16:02:33 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:02:33 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<87vdeedqv0.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<f422fbad-e984-4fd9-b11d-e34c241dfe4b@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87iqaedod2.fsf@castleamber.com>

Phlip <phlip2005 at gmail.com> writes:

> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> my $x = ( 5, "hello", sub {}, [], {} )[ int rand 5 ];
>>
>> what's $x? The answer is: it depends.
>
> That's why my blog post advocated (as usual for me) developer tests.
> Then you either mock the rand, like all developers should, or you get
> what you pay for, and Principle of Least Surprise still applies...

Yup, I agree with you that (to some extent) an IDE should be able to
determine types, especially if programmers don't reuse variables, like
(again Perl):

my $result = .... # int
:
:
if ( ... ) {

   $result = .... # string
}

# $result can be still an int, or either a string, depending on the
# test.

> Over the past decade, teams discovered that developer tests more than
> made up for the lack of rigor in dynamic languages. A dynamic language
> with tests can be more productive than a static language, even with
> its runtime type checks AND with its tests.

Yup, this matches up with my experience. I can't recall that I ever
bumped into an issue in Perl (the dynamic language I've been using
the most for the past years). Not saying that it hasn't happened, but I
just can't recall. Probably also the reason why a "new" language I am
learning is also dynamic: Python ;-)

> However, our editors must catch up to us. When I test, I am statically
> declaring a set of types, even if the language would prefer to
> dynamically fling them hither and yon. We should leverage that.

I am all for testing, but it should IMO not get into the way. I am quite
happy with Emacs as an editor (I "recently" switched), it satisfies most
(if not all) of the items on the check list.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From drsalists at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:09:55 2010
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:09:55 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B69E623.4060704@gmail.com>

kj wrote:
> I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.
>
> An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines
> long, and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was
> quickly dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to
> my screen (aka gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my
> terminal *royally*.  Here's buggy.py:
>
>
>
> import sys
> import psycopg2
> connection_params = "dbname='%s' user='%s' password='%s'" % tuple(sys.argv[1:])
> conn = psycopg2.connect(connection_params)
> cur = conn.cursor()
> cur.execute('SELECT * FROM version;')
> print '\n'.join(x[-1] for x in cur.fetchall())
>
>
> (Of course, buggy.py is pretty useless; I reduced the original,
> more useful, script to this to help me debug it.)
>
> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.  (This second script
> is one I wrote as part of a little Python tutorial I put together
> months ago, and is not much more of a script than hello_world.py;
> it's baby-steps for the absolute beginner.  But apparently, it has
> a killer name!  I had completely forgotten about it.)
>
> Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
> one-off scripts like the two of them.  I'll call this directory
> myscripts in what follows. 
>
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
> mayhem*.
>
> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
> the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
> for me.)
>
> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
> and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
> not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
> of a future release.
>
> What else can one do?  Let's see, one should put every script in its
> own directory, thereby containing the damage.
>
> Anything else?
>
> Any suggestion would be appreciated.
>
> TIA!
>
> ~k
>   
Here's a pretty simple fix that should work in about any version of 
python available:

Put modules in ~/lib.  Put scripts in ~/bin.  Your modules end with 
.py.  Your scripts don't.  Your scripts add ~/lib to sys.path as 
needed.  Things that go in ~/lib are named carefully.  Things in ~/bin 
also need to be named carefully, but for an entirely different reason - 
if you name something "ls", you may get into trouble.

Then things in ~/lib plainly could cause issues.  Things in ~/bin don't.

Ending everything with .py seems to come from the perl tradition of 
ending everything with .pl.  This perl tradition appears to have come 
from perl advocates wanting everyone to know (by looking at a URL) that 
they are using a perl CGI.  IMO, it's language vanity, and best 
dispensed with - aside from this issue, it also keeps you from rewriting 
your program in another language with an identical interface.

This does, however, appear to be a scary issue from a security 
standpoint.  I certainly hope that scripts running as root don't search 
"." for modules.








From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 16:10:56 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:10:56 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <87eil2dnz3.fsf@castleamber.com>

Robert <no-spam at non-existing.invalid> writes:

> Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
>> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
>> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?

I guess Vladimir means what's called a structure editor. The (by me)
aforementioned Synthesizer Generator is an example of such an editor
(environment).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_editor
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=358746.358755

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:17:42 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:17:42 GMT
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1779.1265099894.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1824.1265194559.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.17.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:55:57 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

[...]
>> Python does most of that for you: it automatically recompiles the
>> source whenever the source code's last modified date stamp is newer
>> than that of the byte code. So to a first approximation you can forget
>> all about the .pyc files and just care about the source.
> 
> True, but the .pyc file is lying around and I always have to do 'ls -al
> | grep -v pyc' in my python source directory.


So alias a one-word name to that :)


[...]
> Here is an example: shared object files. If your code needs them, you
> can use them easily, you can access them easily if you want to, but they
> are not in the directory where you keep your C files. They are somewhere
> in /usr/lib for example, where they are conveniently collected, you can
> inspect them, look at them, distribute them, do basically whatever you
> want, but they are out of the way, and 99% of the time while you develop
> your code, you don't need them. In the 1% of the case you can easily get
> at them in the centralized location, /usr/lib in our example.
> 
> Of course the relationship between C source files and shared objects is
> not parallel to the relationship to python source files and the created
> pyc files, please don't nitpick on this point. The analogy is in the
> sense that your project inevitable needs for whatever reason some binary
> files which are rarely needed at hand, only the
> linker/compiler/interpreter/etc needs to know where they are. These
> files can be stored separately, but at a location where one can inspect
> them if needed (which rarely happens).

I'll try not to nit-pick :)

When an object file is in /usr/lib, you're dealing with it as a user. 
You, or likely someone else, have almost certainly compiled it in a 
different directory and then used make to drop it in place. It's now a 
library, you're a user of that library, and you don't care where the 
object file is so long as your app can find it (until you have a 
conflict, and then you do).

While you are actively developing the library, on the other hand, the 
compiler typically puts the object file in the same directory as the 
source file. (There may be an option to gcc to do otherwise, but surely 
most people don't use it often.) While the library is still being 
actively developed, the last thing you want is for the object file to be 
placed somewhere other than in your working directory. A potentially 
unstable or broken library could end up in /usr/lib and stomp all over a 
working version. Even if it doesn't, it means you have to be flipping 
backwards and forwards between two locations to get anything done.

Python development is much the same, the only(?) differences are that we 
have a lower threshold between "in production" and "in development", and 
that we typically install both the source and the binary instead of just 
the binary.

When you are *using* a library/script/module, you don't care whether 
import uses the .py file or the .pyc, and you don't care where they are, 
so long as they are in your PYTHONPATH (and there are no conflicts). But 
I would argue that while you are *developing* the module, it would more 
nuisance than help to have the .pyc file anywhere other than immediately 
next to the .py file (either in the same directory, or in a clearly named 
sub-directory).



-- 
Steven


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:24:30 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:24:30 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002031324n3901ae3bod60f3cdbe40e8cad@mail.gmail.com>

> can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?

Sorry, I don't have anything written down. I just have some rough idea
of implementation and some concrete features I would like to see in
such system.  For example:

1) Instant refactoring. No more needs for manual
search/inspect/rename. Since system knows exactly that is going on,
the refactoring will be fully automatic.
2) Show "xref table" for each function. How often this function used?
Where is it used? (code snippets of calls) What functionality is
supported by this function?
3) Extended statistics. How many objects this object/function
interacts with? Popular functions, dead/unused functions.
4) Code smell detector - too long functions, too much interaction with
other objects, global objects, etc.
...

Vladimir Ignatov


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:27:48 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:27:48 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <hkcpok$ccq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 14:40 PM, Robert wrote:
> Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
>> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
>> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?

I believe that Smalltalk came pretty close to what Vladimir is asking for. You 
wrote the methods as linear plain text, but you used the GUI three pane class 
browser to define and navigate classes. You could export class definitions to a 
text file and read them back in, but in Vladimir's terms, the text files were 
not the "source material" themselves.

   http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/wolfgang.kreutzer/cosc205/smalltalk1.html

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb  3 16:32:18 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:32:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 9:11?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
> > to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
>
> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
> a statement like this.
>

I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
all of Python in an hour.

Coming from perl to python, the big "aha!" moment was when I realized
there wasn't anything more than what I saw before me. I kept expecting
something big around the corner, kind of like when I first discovered
refs in perl, or when I realized how hard it truly was to write OO
code in perl that actually does what you think it should do.

Perl has trained me to be fearful of the language, constantly on the
lookout for jabberwockies. If you fall into one of those traps in
perl, it's because you weren't smart enough and aren't worthy of the
language, or so they say. It's never perl's fault. I mean, doesn't
everyone know what the Schwartzian Transform is?

Python is the complete opposite. Go through http://docs.python.org/reference/
. Once you've familiarized yourself with all the operators,
statements, and the special methods, you're done with syntax and the
core language. There is no more.

The next step is to learn the basic objects and functions in builtins.
That's in the first seven chapters of http://docs.python.org/library/index.html.
You can always fall back to the "help" function to remind yourself if
you forget. I do it all the time.

After that, it's merely figuring out which standard libraries do what
and how. The documentation there is complete and awesome, and there
are more than enough people willing to point you in the right
direction here.

There are no dragons in this forest. Heck, this isn't even a forest---
it's a single-room apartment with everything you need right there
where you can see it. The thermostat is set to room temperature, and
no matter what happens outside, you're safe and protected from it all.



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:36:05 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:36:05 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <87eil2dnz3.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net> <87eil2dnz3.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002031336m22f9b089h9eba5d3490c169a1@mail.gmail.com>

> I guess Vladimir means what's called a structure editor. The (by me)
> aforementioned Synthesizer Generator is an example of such an editor
> (environment).

Maybe. Yes, it kind of "generator". It has (entered somehow) internal
representation of target program. Then it generates code out of this
internal data. Yes, it is imaginable system, I don't have any working
prototype yet. But about to start making it. For prototype I choose
python 2.x as implementation language, sqlite as internal database and
Django as UI.

Vladimir Ignatov


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:37:55 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:37:55 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:18:40 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 14:10 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
>> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
>> and love it a much.
>> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
>> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
>> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
>> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.
> 
> Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
> to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
> 
> class.method(sting name, int count)
> 
> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
> 
> class.method(name, count)


Obviously? I don't know about that. Being told that "count" is an int 
doesn't really help me -- it's obvious just from the name. In a well-
written API, what else could it be?

And surely count should be positive or zero but not negative? Saying it's 
an int is misleading. Or perhaps count can be negative, in which case 
maybe negative counts have some special meaning that isn't obvious from 
the function signature. Can I pass None to get the default behaviour? 
Either way, I need to read the docs, so the supposed added expressiveness 
doesn't actually add much.

And why is count limited to an actual int type, rather than anything 
which is integer-like? Why can't I pass 3.0 or Decimal(3)? If you have a 
good reason for that limitation, great, but if it's just there to satisfy 
the compiler, then boo hiss to you.

I cheerfully admit that *sometimes* there are type restrictions which 
make sense, and of course we know that there are sometimes useful 
performance gains to be made with static typing. Any compiler which 
requires types to be declared is far too 1970s though -- a good modern 
static language should use type inference to reduce the number of 
declarations needed.

As for Pythonistas refusing to accept this, how do you explain function 
annotations then?

Quoting Guido:

"Optional static typing has long been requested as a Python feature."

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=85551


More on function annotations and type inference for Python:

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1519
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/

http://www.python.org/workshops/2000-01/proceedings/papers/aycock/aycock.html



> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"

The answer is usually "both, and anything else that obeys some subset of 
the sequence or iterable protocols".





-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:40:53 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:40:53 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:42:52 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> One nice trick with static types is if you change
> what the method does (even if its type signature doesn't change), you
> can rename the method:
> 
>    class.method2(string name, int count):  # change 'method' to
>    'method2'
> 
> and recompile your codebase.  Every place in the code that called
> 'method' now gets a compile time "undefined method" error that you can
> examine to see if you need to update it.  This is something you can't
> catch with unit tests because the call sites can be in distant modules.


I don't understand why that won't work with unit tests. If you change the 
name of a method, surely your unit tests will now start failing with 
AttributeError?




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:42:26 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:42:26 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:48:12 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:


> Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
> environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be if
> system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
> portions of text from internal database-alike representation.

Something like Bicycle Repair Man then: 

http://bicyclerepair.sourceforge.net/



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:43:26 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:43:26 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<3dfd60f21002030723q393089e9kcfdec36fc2881b29@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1835.1265211648.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.43.22@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:39:53 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 16:23 +0100, Stef Mientki wrote:
>>         Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas
>>         to confess
>>         to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
>>         expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>>         class.method(sting name, int count)
>>         - is *obviously* more expressive than - class.method(name,
>>         count)
>>         Oh, well.
>>         This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where
>>         one
>>         frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed
>>         to be...
>>         a string... a list... ?"
> 
>> But I thought that was the one of beauties of Python, you don't need to
>> know if the input parameter is a list or a string.
> 
> You don't need to know; unless of course you want the expected result.


Says who? If you're free to assume the function requires a certain type, 
we're free to assume the function is polymorphic and doesn't.




-- 
Steven


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 16:45:57 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:45:57 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b69ee95$0$10078$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Tim Golden wrote:
> 
>> Anyway, you have in mind that respect to speed:
>>
>> shared memory>  named pipes>  Unix domain socket>  TCP socket
> 
> True, but the OP didn't mention speed; rather simplicity. Not
> saying it isn't a consideration but premature optimisation and
> all that...
> 

Yes true. I'm looking for something simple, platform agnostic. Lateron I
can always improve performance.

Perhaps I'll stick initially with xmlrpc, as it is quite simple, though
a little heavy.
I just have to see how to deal with servers which are not up, no more
up, being restarted.


N


From soltys at noabuse.net  Wed Feb  3 16:46:11 2010
From: soltys at noabuse.net (soltys)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:46:11 +0100
Subject: PyChecker under python's virtualenv
Message-ID: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl>

Hi Everybody,
I've been doing some test on pythons' virtualenv and recently I've
decided to run PyChecker. But I'm having some difficulties with importing
modules available only on virtualenv by pychecker. As if it was
trying to use systemwide python.
I've googled about it, and found nothing in this area.
I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.

Any help appreciate,
Soltys



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb  3 16:50:44 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:50:44 +1100
Subject: Wrap a function
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<slrnhm3ojr.lqh.jrh@polaris.joshh.co.uk>
	<b9c88f31-832d-4810-9032-79b8fc4f6379@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87vdelwitb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.1859.1265229722.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ock6m1jf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> writes:

> Ben Finney wrote:
> > It's no sin to say that Python isn't a good choice for specific
> > things; and ?I want to write programs by indistinguishably mixing
> > statements with external system calls? is one of them, IMO

> > From 
> http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~dstromberg/debugging-with-syscall-tracers.html#terminology
>
>    A quick note on terminology: open() is typically a system call.
[?]

That is a different use of ?system call?. I used it in the ?os.system?
sense: meaning ?invoke an external OS command as a child of this
process?.

-- 
 \           ?I was in a bar the other night, hopping from barstool to |
  `\     barstool, trying to get lucky, but there wasn't any gum under |
_o__)                                       any of them.? ?Emo Philips |
Ben Finney


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:50:49 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:50:49 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
> all of Python in an hour.

With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable chance of your 
audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining. It's just 
exposition.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From gb345 at invalid.com  Wed Feb  3 16:51:44 2010
From: gb345 at invalid.com (gb345)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:51:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help w 'Broken pipe' handling
Message-ID: <hkcr5g$kft$1@reader2.panix.com>




Hi!  I'm having a hard time figuring out how to handle a Unix
SIGPIPE exception cleanly.  The following short script illustrates
the problem:

------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python
# sigpipebug.py
import sys
import random
from signal import signal, SIGPIPE, SIGINT

def handle_sigpipe(signo, frame):
    print >> sys.stderr, "caught SIGPIPE (%d)" % signo
    sys.exit(0)

def handle_sigint(signo, frame):
    print >> sys.stderr, "caught SIGINT (%d)" % signo
    sys.exit(1)

def my_excepthook(exc_type, exc_obj, exc_tb):
    print >> sys.stderr, "excepthook called"
    sys.exit(0)

signal(SIGPIPE, handle_sigpipe)
signal(SIGINT, handle_sigint)
# sys.excepthook = my_excepthook

while True:
    try:
        print random.random()
    except IOError as (_, error):
        if error == 'Broken pipe':
            print >> sys.stderr, 'EXCEPTION: %s' % error
            sys.exit(0)
        raise
------------------------------------------------------------------



The problem shows up only occasionally; the following bash one-liner
helps to see the problem (terminate with Ctrl-C):

while [ 1 ]; do (./sigpipebug.py||break) | head -1; done

(The pipe through head should cause the script to receive a PIPE
signal.)

The typical output from the above one-liner will start out as
something like this:

0.666233280308
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.554289690682
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.438033929588
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.969307976257
caught SIGPIPE (13)
close failed in file object destructor:
Error in sys.excepthook:

Original exception was:
0.916260186232
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.798590903019
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.737496617527

...though the length of the output preceding "close failed..." is
highly variable.

My problem is that I can't figure out how to get rid of this unwanted
extra output:

close failed in file object destructor:
Error in sys.excepthook:

Original exception was:



I figure that the way the script is handling the SIGPIPE is somehow
incorrect, but I don't see what is it that I'm doing wrong (BTW,
I'm a Python noob).  Is there some cleanup method I should invoke
in the sigpipe handler before executing sys.exit(0)?  (BTW, I'm
using sys.exit in this script instead of plain exit to avoid a
strange error of the form "NameError: global name 'exit' is not
defined".)

The same thing happens when I redefine sys.excepthook (by uncommenting
the commented-out line).

Also, is there a way to define the SIGPIPE handler to obviate the
need to trap the IOError exception?  (Without this try block, I
get a traceback when the script receives the PIPE signal.  This
traceback is also unwanted output.)

Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated!

Gabe


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 17:00:42 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:00:42 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xmxzqq8s5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>> and recompile your codebase.  Every place in the code that called
>> 'method' now gets a compile time "undefined method" error that you can
>> examine to see if you need to update it.  This is something you can't
>> catch with unit tests because the call sites can be in distant modules.
>
> I don't understand why that won't work with unit tests. If you change the 
> name of a method, surely your unit tests will now start failing with 
> AttributeError?

Unit tests only test the code in the local module or package ("unit").
Obviously you also need other tests to exercise the interaction between
local and remote modules, but it's harder to be as thorough with those,
or write them as reflexively, in part because they're often written
by a separate group of programmers.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 17:01:52 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:01:52 -0800
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b69ee95$0$10078$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xiqaeq8q7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

News123 <news123 at free.fr> writes:
> Perhaps I'll stick initially with xmlrpc, as it is quite simple,
> though a little heavy.  I just have to see how to deal with servers
> which are not up, no more up, being restarted.

Something wrong wtih nagios?


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 17:02:32 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:02:32 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1854.1265227770.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>	<6b65c778-f905-4eb6-b077-523fbea8e22c@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1854.1265227770.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b69f278$0$25781$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Terry,

Terry Reedy wrote:

> 
> That aside, I would wonder whether you could use a master process with a
> gui to haphazardly launch subprocess, so as to avail oneself of
> multiprocessing.Queue.
> 
T

This is also an option I'm looking.

insted of the python scripts, thet users would normally click at I had
to implement small sripts, that just communicate with the master
process, which would then launch the application.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 17:04:31 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:04:31 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 19:11, schrieb John Bokma:
> Alan Harris-Reid<alan at baselinedata.co.uk>  writes:
>
>> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
>> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
>> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
>> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
>> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
>> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>
> You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
> records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
> should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying information.

You should *never* say never, because there might be situations where 
exceptions from rules are valid. This is one such cases. Making this a 
post means that you need to resort to javascript to populate & submit a 
hidden HTML-form. Just for the sake of a POST.

And there are people who say "you should *never* write web-apps that 
only work with enabled javascript"... catch 22.

Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a 
tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this 
less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.

Diez



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 17:09:07 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:09:07 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.

GET parameters also tend to get recorded in the http logs of web proxies
and web servers while POST parameters usually aren't.  This was an
annoyance in a web chat package I fooled with for a while.  Because the
package sent user messages by GET, if I ran the software the way the
developers set it up, the contents of all the user conversations stayed
in my server logs.  I was unable to convince the chat package
maintainers that this was a bug.  I ended up doing some fairly kludgy
hack to prevent the logging.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 17:10:19 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:10:19 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7suaicFp81U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 19:01, schrieb Alan Harris-Reid:
> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page. The
> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>
> Is there another way of passing a record-id to a method
> a) without it appearing in the URL?

You can populate an invisible HTML-form with the values, and submit that 
- of course you need javascript for this.

But this doesn't increase security a bit. Using an extension to FF such 
as HTTP live headers, it's easy enough to figure out what parameters are 
passed, and simply forge a request.


> b) without the user being able to fathom-out how to attach which id to
> which URL?

Paul already mentioned that - you can create a server-side, 
session-stored action-item that is identified by a hash of some sort. 
Then use that hash as parameter.

But I'd say you should instead make sure that your serve actions perform 
authorization checking before performing any operations. Then you don't 
need to worry - even guessing a hash argument won't work then.

>
> As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone
> from getting the id from the page source-code. Is it safe to use the
> above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password
> stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the edit/delete
> action?

You should of course always do that. Every http-action except login 
should be guarded (unless you allow anonymous access of course).

Diez


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 17:12:31 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 22:12:31 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] Radian language
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.22.12.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

For those interested in language design, the former head of RealBasic's 
development team, and current "compiler architect guy" for Microsoft's 
VisualBasic team, Mars Saxman, is developing an interesting programming 
language, Radian:

"The goal of the Radian project is to provide the concurrency benefits 
of a pure functional language inside the syntax and conceptual style 
of a high-level imperative language. This suggests two questions: 
what is it about a pure functional language that makes it useful for 
developing concurrent software, and what is it about an imperative 
syntax that makes the marriage of these two divergent linguistic 
styles worth the effort?"

Radian is heavily (but not uniquely) influenced by Python, although 
sometimes that influence is "what not to do".

http://www.radian-lang.org/



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 17:21:50 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:21:50 +0100
Subject: PyChecker under python's virtualenv
In-Reply-To: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl>
References: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl>
Message-ID: <7sub7uFstoU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 22:46, schrieb soltys:
> Hi Everybody,
> I've been doing some test on pythons' virtualenv and recently I've
> decided to run PyChecker. But I'm having some difficulties with importing
> modules available only on virtualenv by pychecker. As if it was
> trying to use systemwide python.
> I've googled about it, and found nothing in this area.
> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.

I doubt that it uses the "correct python", because then you wouldn't 
have the problems you have.

I don't use pychecker, but pylint. And there, the system-wide command 
uses the system's python - which of course doesn't know anything about 
virtualenv.

There are two solutions to this problem:

  - install py(lint|checker) into your virtualenv.
  - write a wrapper-script that invokes py(lint|checker) with an adapted 
PYTHONPATH environtment variable, based on the venv's sys.path. I do 
that for my epylint-wrapper for emacs. Works flawlessly.


Diez


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 17:24:05 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:24:05 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net> <87eil2dnz3.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.1863.1265232969.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871vh2dkl6.fsf@castleamber.com>

Vladimir Ignatov <kmisoft at gmail.com> writes:

>> I guess Vladimir means what's called a structure editor. The (by me)
>> aforementioned Synthesizer Generator is an example of such an editor
>> (environment).
>
> Maybe. Yes, it kind of "generator". It has (entered somehow) internal
> representation of target program. Then it generates code out of this
> internal data. Yes, it is imaginable system, I don't have any working
> prototype yet. But about to start making it. For prototype I choose
> python 2.x as implementation language, sqlite as internal database and
> Django as UI.

You might check out articles that mention the Synthesizer Generator, etc.
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cis?q=synthesizer+generator&cs=1
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cis?q=structure+editor&cs=1

The idea is not new (at least 30 years old), and those articles might
help you.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 17:24:50 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:24:50 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <hkct3h$oht$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 8:18 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> class.method(sting name, int count)
>
> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>
> class.method(name, count)

So write

class.method(name:str, count:int)->return_type # 3.x

if you really prefer.

In spite of you disparagement of 'pythonistas', it seems that the head 
pythonista *did* admit that some people, at least, would prefer such 
annotations.

3.0 also added abstract base classes so one can better specify object 
classes without losing duck-typing.

import numbers
class.method(name:str, count:numbers.Integral)->return_type

Now one is documenting that count should be an integral value that acts 
like an integer even if it is not an int per se. Of course, this is too 
broad as it allows (presumably invalid) negative values.

Terry Jan Reedy





From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:24:59 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:24:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com> 
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com> 
	<deb07bff-e9ef-4384-a206-c5aad551ef85@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.03.16.53.03.578000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <6025a408-182b-4ab7-8ad6-7a7305879b4e@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 8:55?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:38:53 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> >> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
> >> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
> >> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
> >> than in the process' CWD.
>
> >> As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
> >> lexically scoped.
>
> > Mostly incorrect. ?The CWD is in sys.path only for interactive
> > sessions, and when started with -c switch. ?When running scripts, the
> > directory where the script is located is used instead, not the
> > process's working directory.
>
> Okay, so s/CWD/directory containing __main__ script/, but the general
> argument still holds.
>
> > So, no, it isn't anything like dynamic scoping.
>
> That's what it looks like to me. The way that an import name is resolved
> depends upon the run-time context in which the import occurs.

Well it has one superficial similarity to dynamic binding, but that's
pretty much it.

When the directory containing __main__ script is in the path, it
doesn't matter if you invoke it from a different directory or os.chdir
() during the program, the same modules get imported.  I.e., there's
nothing dynamic at all about which modules are used.  (Unless you
fiddle with the path but that's another question.)

All I'm saying is the analogy is bad.  A better analogy would be if
you have lexical binding, but you automatically look in various sister
scope before your own scope.


Carl Banks


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:27:43 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:27:43 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkct91$p48$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 15:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:42:52 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> One nice trick with static types is if you change
>> what the method does (even if its type signature doesn't change), you
>> can rename the method:
>>
>>     class.method2(string name, int count):  # change 'method' to
>>     'method2'
>>
>> and recompile your codebase.  Every place in the code that called
>> 'method' now gets a compile time "undefined method" error that you can
>> examine to see if you need to update it.  This is something you can't
>> catch with unit tests because the call sites can be in distant modules.
>
> I don't understand why that won't work with unit tests. If you change the
> name of a method, surely your unit tests will now start failing with
> AttributeError?

Let's say we have class "A" with a method named "foo" that we change to "bar". 
We have another class "B" with a method that accepts and A() instance and calls 
the .foo() method on it. It is perfectly reasonable (and often necessary) for 
the unit test of class B to use a mock object instead of a real A() instance. 
The unit test for class B will fail to catch the renaming of A.foo() to A.bar() 
because it never tries to call .foo() on a real A instance.

Of course, in a static language, it's much harder to make mock objects to do 
this kind of (very useful!) testing to begin with.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:28:14 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:28:14 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.21.17.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1779.1265099894.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1824.1265194559.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.17.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002031428l7d8e4b0ch5cb9d3342785ab3d@mail.gmail.com>

>>> Python does most of that for you: it automatically recompiles the
>>> source whenever the source code's last modified date stamp is newer
>>> than that of the byte code. So to a first approximation you can forget
>>> all about the .pyc files and just care about the source.
>>
>> True, but the .pyc file is lying around and I always have to do 'ls -al
>> | grep -v pyc' in my python source directory.
>
>
> So alias a one-word name to that :)
>
>
> [...]
>> Here is an example: shared object files. If your code needs them, you
>> can use them easily, you can access them easily if you want to, but they
>> are not in the directory where you keep your C files. They are somewhere
>> in /usr/lib for example, where they are conveniently collected, you can
>> inspect them, look at them, distribute them, do basically whatever you
>> want, but they are out of the way, and 99% of the time while you develop
>> your code, you don't need them. In the 1% of the case you can easily get
>> at them in the centralized location, /usr/lib in our example.
>>
>> Of course the relationship between C source files and shared objects is
>> not parallel to the relationship to python source files and the created
>> pyc files, please don't nitpick on this point. The analogy is in the
>> sense that your project inevitable needs for whatever reason some binary
>> files which are rarely needed at hand, only the
>> linker/compiler/interpreter/etc needs to know where they are. These
>> files can be stored separately, but at a location where one can inspect
>> them if needed (which rarely happens).
>
> I'll try not to nit-pick :)
>
> When an object file is in /usr/lib, you're dealing with it as a user.
> You, or likely someone else, have almost certainly compiled it in a
> different directory and then used make to drop it in place. It's now a
> library, you're a user of that library, and you don't care where the
> object file is so long as your app can find it (until you have a
> conflict, and then you do).
>
> While you are actively developing the library, on the other hand, the
> compiler typically puts the object file in the same directory as the
> source file. (There may be an option to gcc to do otherwise, but surely
> most people don't use it often.) While the library is still being
> actively developed, the last thing you want is for the object file to be
> placed somewhere other than in your working directory. A potentially
> unstable or broken library could end up in /usr/lib and stomp all over a
> working version. Even if it doesn't, it means you have to be flipping
> backwards and forwards between two locations to get anything done.
>
> Python development is much the same, the only(?) differences are that we
> have a lower threshold between "in production" and "in development", and
> that we typically install both the source and the binary instead of just
> the binary.
>
> When you are *using* a library/script/module, you don't care whether
> import uses the .py file or the .pyc, and you don't care where they are,
> so long as they are in your PYTHONPATH (and there are no conflicts). But
> I would argue that while you are *developing* the module, it would more
> nuisance than help to have the .pyc file anywhere other than immediately
> next to the .py file (either in the same directory, or in a clearly named
> sub-directory).

Okay, I think we got to a point where it's more about rationalizing
gut feelings than factual stuff. But that's okay,
system/language/architecure design is often times more about gut
feelings than facts so nothing to be too surprised about :)

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 17:31:39 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:31:39 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 23:09, schrieb Paul Rubin:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
>> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
>> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.
>
> GET parameters also tend to get recorded in the http logs of web proxies
> and web servers while POST parameters usually aren't.  This was an
> annoyance in a web chat package I fooled with for a while.  Because the
> package sent user messages by GET, if I ran the software the way the
> developers set it up, the contents of all the user conversations stayed
> in my server logs.  I was unable to convince the chat package
> maintainers that this was a bug.  I ended up doing some fairly kludgy
> hack to prevent the logging.

If somebody happens to have access to a proxy & it's logs, he can as 
well log the request body.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to propagate the use of GET as one and 
only method for parameter passing. But whatever is transmitted clear 
text over the wire is subject to inspection of all hops in between. Use 
SSL if you bother.

Diez


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:34:13 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.49.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<8104faf3-c4ea-4b1f-8316-f8b17f53554b@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.04.52.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <222d372b-5e43-48a5-835c-4086a992ba78@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 8:52?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:55:15 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> > On Feb 2, 5:49?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> >> > I did not propose obvious module names. ?I said obvious names like
> >> > email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are
> >> > better.
>
> >> But surely send_email.py doesn't just send email, it parses email and
> >> receives email as well?
>
> > No, it doesn't.
>
> Nevertheless, as a general principle, modules will tend to be multi-
> purpose and/or generic.

Uh, no?

If your module is a library with a public API, then you might
defensibly have a "generic and/or multi-purpose module", but if that's
the case you should have already christened it something unique.

Otherwise modules should stick to a single purpose that can be
summarized in a short action word or phrase.


Carl Banks


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 17:35:39 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:35:39 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> If somebody happens to have access to a proxy & it's logs, he can as
> well log the request body.

I'm not talking about a malicious server operator.  In this situation, I
was the server operator and I didn't want to be recording the
conversations.  I had to go out of my way to stop the recording.  SSL
doesn't help and in fact I was using it, but web server logging happens
after the SSL layer.  I suppose SSL would help against a malicious
proxy.

Many people back in those days (before AJAX became a buzzword du jour)
wanted to do encryption on the client in java or javascript, but that
was almost unworkably kludgy, and SSL was the only approach that made
any sense.  It might be easier now that the javascript API's are richer
and the interpreters are faster.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:38:21 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:38:21 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkctst$r62$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 15:37 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:18:40 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 14:10 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
>>> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
>>> and love it a much.
>>> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
>>> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
>>> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
>>> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.
>>
>> Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
>> to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
>> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>>
>> class.method(sting name, int count)
>>
>> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>>
>> class.method(name, count)
>
> Obviously? I don't know about that. Being told that "count" is an int
> doesn't really help me -- it's obvious just from the name. In a well-
> written API, what else could it be?

A bool. As in telling the method whether or not it should count something.

That said, I agree with your later point that this kind of information is better 
provided by the docstring, not the call signature. Not least because the "type" 
may be something wishy-washy and ad-hoc like "sequence" or "string or list of 
strings". I do wish that people would document their parameters with this 
information a little more consistently, though.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:47:52 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:47:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
Message-ID: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Pythonistas:

Yes, calling os.path.walk() and os.path.join() all the time on raw
strings is fun, but I seem to recall from my Ruby days a class called
Pathname, which presented an object that behaved like a string at
need, and like a filesystem path at need. path + 'folder' would
call .join() and insert the / correctly, for example.

What's the best equivalent in Python-land?

--
  Phlip


From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  3 17:54:57 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:54:57 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article 
<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac at f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
 Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> 
> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
> all of Python in an hour.
> 
> Coming from perl to python, the big "aha!" moment was when I realized
> there wasn't anything more than what I saw before me. I kept expecting
> something big around the corner, kind of like when I first discovered
> refs in perl, or when I realized how hard it truly was to write OO
> code in perl that actually does what you think it should do.
> 
> Perl has trained me to be fearful of the language, constantly on the
> lookout for jabberwockies. If you fall into one of those traps in
> perl, it's because you weren't smart enough and aren't worthy of the
> language, or so they say. It's never perl's fault. I mean, doesn't
> everyone know what the Schwartzian Transform is?
> 
> Python is the complete opposite. Go through http://docs.python.org/reference/
> . Once you've familiarized yourself with all the operators,
> statements, and the special methods, you're done with syntax and the
> core language. There is no more.
> 
> The next step is to learn the basic objects and functions in builtins.
> That's in the first seven chapters of 
> http://docs.python.org/library/index.html.
> You can always fall back to the "help" function to remind yourself if
> you forget. I do it all the time.
> 
> After that, it's merely figuring out which standard libraries do what
> and how. The documentation there is complete and awesome, and there
> are more than enough people willing to point you in the right
> direction here.
> 
> There are no dragons in this forest. Heck, this isn't even a forest---
> it's a single-room apartment with everything you need right there
> where you can see it. The thermostat is set to room temperature, and
> no matter what happens outside, you're safe and protected from it all.


That's a pretty accurate description of how I transitioned to Python 
from C and Fortran.  I kept trying to think of how to output data and 
parameter variables of different types to files for later reading in.  
How to format them all consistently and then get them back in with the 
exact same accuracy.  I was stuck in printf and scanf land.  Then after 
much noodling around and reading it hit me that I could just put all 
that output of different types of variables into a list, hit it with a 
repr() function to get a string version, and write the string to a file 
-- no formatting necessary-- three lines of code. Later reading in the 
string version (no formatting necessary), and hitting it with an eval() 
function returned all the values I originally had in those variables.  
How simple, but beautiful.  I was making it harder when Python was 
making it easier.  Trained on the wrong language.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From bblais at bryant.edu  Wed Feb  3 17:57:55 2010
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:57:55 -0500
Subject: mouse input in turtle module
Message-ID: <146C3C50-CA41-4A38-B9F4-4633219B1E99@bryant.edu>

Hello,

I would like to find a way to pause, and get mouse input in the  
turtle module.  Since it is built on tk, I thought perhaps there  
would be an easy way, but I am stumped.  Specifically, I'd like  
something like:

x,y,button=mouse_input() # pause in here until the mouse is clicked  
in the turtle window

I know about the screenclick, where I can define a callback but I  
couldn't rig it to pause until a mouse clicked, even using global  
flags.  Is there an example of this somewhere?  For a bonus, I'd love  
to be able to <esc> out of it, either raising an exception or return  
a button=-1 or something.


thanks,

		Brian Blais

-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
http://bblais.blogspot.com/



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From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 18:03:15 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:03:15 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87wrytdirw.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Feb 2, 9:11?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> > I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
>> > to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
>>
>> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
>> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
>> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
>> a statement like this.
>>
>
> I can explain all of Python in an hour;

OK, in that case I would say give it a go. Put it on YouTube, or write a
blog post about it (or post it here). I am sure you will help a lot of
people that way. 

> Coming from perl to python, the big "aha!" moment was when I realized
> there wasn't anything more than what I saw before me. I kept expecting
> something big around the corner, kind of like when I first discovered
> refs in perl, or when I realized how hard it truly was to write OO
> code in perl that actually does what you think it should do.

There are very nice frameworks to help you (e.g. Moose). OO is not that
hard IMO, but I can imagine it's very hard if you don't understand
references sufficiently.

> Perl has trained me to be fearful of the language, constantly on the
> lookout for jabberwockies. If you fall into one of those traps in
> perl, it's because you weren't smart enough and aren't worthy of the
> language, or so they say.

Odd, you gave me the same feeling when you stated you could explain me
all features of Python in an hour.

> It's never perl's fault. I mean, doesn't everyone know what the
> Schwartzian Transform is?

Doesn't everyone know what the big O notation is? I mean, Schwartzian
transform is not unique to Perl, and it strikes me as odd that you think
it is. It's all about understanding that general sort on average is O(n
log n), and hence does O(n log n) comparisons. Which means that if you
do an expensive calculation in a custom compare function or do a lot of
comparisons it might be cheaper to do precalculate the keys
(O(n)). Randal Schwartz was the person who made this idea popular in the
Perl community, hence the Perl community named it after him, but it was
long known before that and used in other languages.

[How to learn Python]
I am fully aware of how to learn a language, I've done so several times
(or many times even). I only disagree with your statement that you can
explain all features of Python to me in an hour. But I love to be wrong
on this, and to stand corrected.

> There are no dragons in this forest. Heck, this isn't even a forest---
> it's a single-room apartment with everything you need right there
> where you can see it. The thermostat is set to room temperature, and
> no matter what happens outside, you're safe and protected from it all.

Why does this sound like some religious speech?

I always say: if there was a really easy to learn programming language,
I would be programming in it. And no, I don't think Python is it. (Nor
Perl for that matter). I do agree that Python /looks/ more simple (and
certainly cleaner, unless you're using regexp a lot) than Perl, and
certainly to some extend Python /is/ simpler. But in my (relatively long
experience) programming boils mostly down to which libraries you know,
and how well you can use them.

Finally, note that simpeler doesn't always make your code more easy to
grasp. There is a reason that human languages are rich and often have
many ways to say something. Programming, after all, is also
communication with other humans (if only with one self).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 18:09:37 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:09:37 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <7x8wb9j4r2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
> after much noodling around and reading it hit me that I could just put
> all that output of different types of variables into a list, hit it
> with a repr() function to get a string version, and write the string
> to a file -- no formatting necessary-- three lines of code. Later
> reading in the string version (no formatting necessary), and hitting
> it with an eval() function returned all the values I originally had in
> those variables.  How simple, but beautiful.

FYI: I do that too sometimes, but in general using repr/eval that way
is poor style and not very reliable.  It's better to use the pickle
module, which is intended for that sort of thing, or the json module
if your datatypes are suitable and you want to follow a semi-standard.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 18:26:17 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:26:17 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 23:35, schrieb Paul Rubin:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>> If somebody happens to have access to a proxy&  it's logs, he can as
>> well log the request body.
>
> I'm not talking about a malicious server operator.  In this situation, I
> was the server operator and I didn't want to be recording the
> conversations.  I had to go out of my way to stop the recording.  SSL
> doesn't help and in fact I was using it, but web server logging happens
> after the SSL layer.  I suppose SSL would help against a malicious
> proxy.

Well, we actually implemented POST-parameter logging (inside the 
WSGI-app), because we *want* all parameters users pass. They end up in 
the application anyway, and aid debugging. Of course we blind sensitive 
parameters such as passwords & creditcard numbers.

Of course only information not gathered is really safe information. But 
every operation that has side-effects is reproducable anyway, and if 
e.g. your chat-app has a history, you can as well log the parameters.

Diez


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 18:31:09 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:31:09 -0500
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
In-Reply-To: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkd0vs$5dh$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 1:42 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team, http://saucelabs.com/about/team,
> is hosting two free tutorial open space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.
>
> In the short session, people bringing their laptops should be able to
> record a web session in their browser, convert the recorded activity
> to a Python script, modify the script to accept a number of inputs ,
> and replay the script locally on their laptops.  Once you've learned
> how to fully automate your own browser, submit the same script to the
> Sauce Labs cloud to run the tests in parallel across multiple browsers
> and operating systems, and view the results with instant video
> playback.

A free tutorial is a good way to introduce Suace Lab and its product. I 
visited the site, but one variable I did not address is screen size and 
aspect ratio. When my wife redid her home page last fall, that was more 
of a problem than browser differences.

tjr



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 18:39:48 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:39:48 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkd1g6$6ci$1@ger.gmane.org>

Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> 
>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
>> all of Python in an hour.
> 
> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable chance of
> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
> It's just exposition.
> 
I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't explained it.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 18:39:50 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:39:50 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> Of course only information not gathered is really safe
> information. But every operation that has side-effects is reproducable
> anyway, and if e.g. your chat-app has a history, you can as well log
> the parameters.

No I can't.  The chat-app history would be on the client, not the
server, so I'd have no access to it.  Put another way: as server
operator, I'm like the owner of a coffee shop.  I can't stop patrons
from recording their own conversations with each other, and it's not
even really my business whether they do that.  But it would be
outrageous for the shop owner to record the conversations of patrons.


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 19:00:21 2010
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:00:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: expy 0.5.2 released
In-Reply-To: <hkclna$q5p$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <179000.53309.qm@web54207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> >
> > expy is an expressway to extend python.
> >
> > in release 0.5.2, expy now supports custom exceptions,
> besides all built-in ones, and exception handling is made
> easy.
> >
> > for more info, see
> >
> > http://expy.sourceforge.net/
> 
> What Python versions does it work with?
> There is no indication either above or on the sf page.
> 

Thanks for point that out, I will add this to the
document. Currently, it works with Python 2.5, 2.6. 
I haven't tested with Python 2.7 or 3.x 
(for 3.x, need to use the code tool first,
then I am not sure if the C API for 3.x 
has changed much).

BTW, the current version is 0.5.5.

Yingjie 


      


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 19:01:06 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Feb 2010 00:01:06 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:38:21 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

>>> class.method(name, count)
>>
>> Obviously? I don't know about that. Being told that "count" is an int
>> doesn't really help me -- it's obvious just from the name. In a well-
>> written API, what else could it be?
> 
> A bool. As in telling the method whether or not it should count
> something.

Ha ha, good point. I question that this is a well-written API: such flags 
to change the behaviour of a function/method are generally poor design. 
If method behaves differently depending on whether or not you want it to 
count something, then it is usually better design to have two methods, 
one that counts and one that doesn't.

In any case, yes, the weakness of naming conventions is that there are 
always odd-corner cases of natural language. Perhaps `name` is also a 
flag telling the method whether or not to name something.

But then, one can write crappy APIs in any language.



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 19:09:04 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:09:04 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 00:39, schrieb Paul Rubin:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>> Of course only information not gathered is really safe
>> information. But every operation that has side-effects is reproducable
>> anyway, and if e.g. your chat-app has a history, you can as well log
>> the parameters.
>
> No I can't.  The chat-app history would be on the client, not the
> server, so I'd have no access to it.  Put another way: as server
> operator, I'm like the owner of a coffee shop.  I can't stop patrons
> from recording their own conversations with each other, and it's not
> even really my business whether they do that.  But it would be
> outrageous for the shop owner to record the conversations of patrons.

Which is the exact thing that happens when you use an email-provider 
with IMAP. Or google wave. Or groups. Or facebook. Or twitter. Which I 
wouldn't call outrageous.

This discussion moves away from the original question: is there anything 
inherently less secure when using GET vs. POST. There isn't.

Users can forge both kind of requests easy enough, whoever sits in the 
middle can access both, and it's at the discretion of the service 
provider to only save what it needs to. If you don't trust it, don't use it.

Diez


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 19:18:31 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:18:31 +0100
Subject: pychecker and "import my.special.module as mymod" 
Message-ID: <4b6a1257$0$12211$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I'm not really used to structuring modules withn directories, but I
started playing


#####################################
# the commands to reproduce my setup:
#####################################
mkdir -p my/special
touch my/__init__.py my/special/__init__.py
echo 'print "myspecialmod"' > my/special/module.py
echo "import my.special.module as mymod" > tst.py

so I have now following files:
-rw-r--r-- 1     0 2010-02-04 01:05 ./my/__init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1   131 2010-02-04 01:07 ./my/__init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1     0 2010-02-04 01:05 ./my/special/__init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1   139 2010-02-04 01:07 ./my/special/__init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1    21 2010-02-04 01:06 ./my/special/module.py
-rw-r--r-- 1   159 2010-02-04 01:07 ./my/special/module.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1    34 2010-02-04 01:07 ./tst.py

the program tst.py runs as expected:
> $ python tst.py
> myspecialmod



However pychecker gives me two warnings:
> $ pychecker tst.py 
> Processing module tst (tst.py)...
> myspecialmod
> 
> Warnings...
> 
> tst.py:1: Imported module (my.special.module) not used
> tst.py:1: No module attribute (special) found

I understand the first one and this one will not appear in my real code.
However I don't really understand the second one.

So my questions are:
- Is this a real warning or is this 'just' a pychecker problem?
- Can I write my code such, that the warning will not appear?
- Is there a pychecker switch, which would get rid of this warning?


thanks a lot in advance for your answers / suggestions



N










From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 19:35:41 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:35:41 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
>> But it would be outrageous for the shop owner to record the
>> conversations of patrons.
>
> Which is the exact thing that happens when you use an email-provider
> with IMAP. Or google wave. Or groups. Or facebook. Or twitter. Which I
> wouldn't call outrageous.

Those are not comparable.  IMAP is a storage service, and groups,
facebook, and twitter are publishing systems (ok, I've never understood
quite what Google Wave is).  Yes, by definition, your voice mail
provider (like IMAP) has to save recordings of messages people leave
you, but that's a heck of a lot different than your phone carrier
recording your real-time conversations.  Recording live phone
conversations by a third party is called a "wiretap" and doing it
without suitable authorization can get you in a heck of a lot of
trouble.

> This discussion moves away from the original question: is there
> anything inherently less secure when using GET vs. POST. There isn't.

Well, the extra logging of GET parameters is not inherent to the
protocol, but it's an accidental side effect that server ops may have to
watch out for.

> Users can forge both kind of requests easy enough, whoever sits in the
> middle can access both, 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Obviously if users want to record
their own conversations, then I can't stop them, but that's much
different than a non-participant in the conversation leaving a recorder
running 24/7.  Is that so hard to understand?

Interception from the middle is addressed by SSL, though that relies on
the PKI certificate infrastructure, which while somewhat dubious, is
better than nothing.

> and it's at the discretion of the service provider to only save what
> it needs to.  If you don't trust it, don't use it.

I certainly didn't feel that saving or not saving client conversations
on the server side was up to my discretion.  When I found that the
default server configuration caused conversations to be logged then I
was appalled.

Do you think the phone company has the right to record all your phone
calls if they feel like it (absent something like a law enforcement
investigation)?  What about coffee shops that you visit with your
friends?  It is not up to their discretion.  They have a positive
obligation to not do it.  If you think they are doing it on purpose
without your authorization, you should notify the FBI or your
equivalent, not just "don't use it".  If they find they are doing it
inadvertently, they have to take measures to make it stop.  That is the
situation I found myself in, because of the difference in how servers
treat GET vs.  POST.


From monaghand.david at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 19:39:01 2010
From: monaghand.david at gmail.com (David Monaghan)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:39:01 +0000
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
Message-ID: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>

I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but in
3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
not the one the script is in.

It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
technique, I suppose).

The program fails at:

    try:
        tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
    except IOError:
        <snip>

DaveM


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 19:42:39 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:42:39 -0600
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:

> Am 03.02.10 19:11, schrieb John Bokma:
>> Alan Harris-Reid<alan at baselinedata.co.uk>  writes:
>>
>>> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
>>> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
>>> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
>>> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
>>> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
>>> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>>
>> You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
>> records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
>> should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying information.
>
> You should *never* say never, because there might be situations where
> exceptions from rules are valid. This is one such cases. Making this a
> post means that you need to resort to javascript to populate & submit
> a hidden HTML-form. Just for the sake of a POST.

Make each edit/delete button a submit button and optionally style it.

> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.

Maybe you should think about what happens if someone posts:
<img src="http://example.com/item_delete?id=123"> to a popular forum...

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 19:49:58 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:49:58 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkd5jl$j3q$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 18:01 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:38:21 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
>
>>>> class.method(name, count)
>>>
>>> Obviously? I don't know about that. Being told that "count" is an int
>>> doesn't really help me -- it's obvious just from the name. In a well-
>>> written API, what else could it be?
>>
>> A bool. As in telling the method whether or not it should count
>> something.
>
> Ha ha, good point. I question that this is a well-written API: such flags
> to change the behaviour of a function/method are generally poor design.
> If method behaves differently depending on whether or not you want it to
> count something, then it is usually better design to have two methods,
> one that counts and one that doesn't.

I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct quote for 
right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only going to take 
*literal* True or False, then it should be split into two functions. There is a 
use case for a boolean argument like this when you can expect to pass around a 
variable between multiple functions.

Of course, this also might be the private API that the public API (with two 
distinct methods for each case) uses internally in order to avoid code 
duplication. Private APIs need to be documented, too.

> In any case, yes, the weakness of naming conventions is that there are
> always odd-corner cases of natural language. Perhaps `name` is also a
> flag telling the method whether or not to name something.
>
> But then, one can write crappy APIs in any language.

Well, I'm not trying to make Paul's point that other languages are better in 
this regard. I think that type documentation is quite helpful, but requiring 
static type declaration to get that documentation is an undesirable tradeoff for 
most of the code that I want to write. I do think it is worthwhile to recognize 
that the tradeoff does cut the other way, too. It just so happens that Python 
has docstrings and argument annotations to document argument types without the 
burden of static typing.

Not all good, clean APIs are always going to have argument names that clearly 
inform the kind of type it expects. And what an author thinks is obviously 
deducible while writing the API is often quite different from what a new user 
thinks is obvious. There isn't much reason to place that cognitive burden on the 
(many) readers of the code when the (single) author can put in a word or two 
into the docstring (once) to describe what the parameter is expected to be. 
Figuring out how to use an API to solve your real problem is hard enough without 
having your brainpower nickled-and-dimed at every turn.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 19:52:28 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:52:28 -0500
Subject: PyChecker under python's virtualenv
In-Reply-To: <7sub7uFstoU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl> <7sub7uFstoU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hkd5of$inu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Am 03.02.10 22:46, schrieb soltys:
>> Hi Everybody,
>> I've been doing some test on pythons' virtualenv and recently I've
>> decided to run PyChecker. But I'm having some difficulties with importing
>> modules available only on virtualenv by pychecker. As if it was
>> trying to use systemwide python.
>> I've googled about it, and found nothing in this area.
>> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
>> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.
> 
> I doubt that it uses the "correct python", because then you wouldn't
> have the problems you have.
> 
> I don't use pychecker, but pylint. And there, the system-wide command
> uses the system's python - which of course doesn't know anything about
> virtualenv.
> 
> There are two solutions to this problem:
> 
>  - install py(lint|checker) into your virtualenv.

See the OP's original assertion:

>> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
>> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.

Isn't that "installing into his virtualenv"?

regards
 Steve

>  - write a wrapper-script that invokes py(lint|checker) with an adapted
> PYTHONPATH environtment variable, based on the venv's sys.path. I do
> that for my epylint-wrapper for emacs. Works flawlessly.
> 
> 
> Diez


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 19:55:45 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:55:45 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002031324n3901ae3bod60f3cdbe40e8cad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
	<c02acca21002031324n3901ae3bod60f3cdbe40e8cad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkd5uk$inu$2@ger.gmane.org>

Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?
> 
> Sorry, I don't have anything written down. I just have some rough idea
> of implementation and some concrete features I would like to see in
> such system.  For example:
> 
> 1) Instant refactoring. No more needs for manual
> search/inspect/rename. Since system knows exactly that is going on,
> the refactoring will be fully automatic.

You'll probably want to take a look at "Bicycle Repair Man", which
offers Python refactoring functionality.

> 2) Show "xref table" for each function. How often this function used?
> Where is it used? (code snippets of calls) What functionality is
> supported by this function?

Bear in mind this information can only ever be partial, since functions
are first-class objects and aren't always referred to by their original
name.

> 3) Extended statistics. How many objects this object/function
> interacts with? Popular functions, dead/unused functions.
> 4) Code smell detector - too long functions, too much interaction with
> other objects, global objects, etc.
> ...
> 
Also take a look at pylint and pychecker, which are already built to
perform that kind of check on Python code.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 19:56:10 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:56:10 -0600
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>

Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:

> That's a pretty accurate description of how I transitioned to Python 
> from C and Fortran.

Not C, but C++ (but there are also C implementations): YAML, see:
http://code.google.com/p/yaml-cpp/wiki/HowToParseADocument

I use YAML now and then with Perl for both reading/writing data and for
debugging purposes (YAML is quite human readable, for programmers at least)

Of course there is also YAML support for Python:
http://pyyaml.org/. 

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 20:03:47 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:03:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1dbae543-f4f4-4a79-bcda-58498a9c375d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Adam Tauno Williams <awill... at opengroupware.us> wrote:
> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"

Could you provide an actual example to support this?

The only places I tend to see 'x' as a parameter in the Python library
docs are where it's clearly a number, or the text immediately beneath
it explains exactly what it is.

    random.seed([x])
        Initialize the basic random number generator. Optional
        argument x can be any hashable object.

Everywhere else, the docs seem to declare what the parameters should
be _and_ explains them in the text:

    itertools.combinations(iterable, r)
        Return r length subsequences of elements from
        the input iterable.

If you're finding places in the docs where this isn't the case, I'd
treat them as a documentation bug and report them. If it's not obvious
to you what an iterable is, well, I'm sure you've got a disparaging
term for those of us who do...


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb  3 20:32:31 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Feb 2010 17:32:31 -0800
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
References: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkd83f$dc2$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a at x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Raymond Hettinger  <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>
>For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team,
>http://saucelabs.com/about/team, is hosting two free tutorial open
>space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.

Congrats on the new job!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From icanbob at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 20:40:00 2010
From: icanbob at gmail.com (bobicanprogram)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:40:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b497d3e-32c5-4e4f-b607-fb1b5a51f519@k22g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 3:32 am, News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?
>
> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>
> these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
> integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
> message queues of the receiving process.
>
> example:
>
> 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
> 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
> 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'
>
> the receiver dos not necesarily have to know who sent the message
>
> a message shall be dropped silently if the receiving process is not running
>
> a message shall be reliably delivered if the receiving process is up
>
> xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>
> signals don't allow to exchange data
>
> a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
> python's Multiprocessing.Queue  seems to require a common parent process
>
> thanks a lot for any ideas / suggestions
>
> N
>
> N


Have a look at the SIMPL toolkit (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl or
http://www.icanprogram.com/06py/main.html).   It should do everything
you describe at least on the Linux end of the spectrum.   Under the
hood SIMPL uses a shared memory scheme for local message exchange.
SIMPL would be especially effective if you want to move your modules
at some future point onto different nodes.   SIMPL-Python can work
seamlessly on heterogeneous networks provided at least one node is
Linux.

bob


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb  3 20:46:27 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:46:27 +1100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:48:12 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
> > [?] system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates
> > relevant portions of text from internal database-alike
> > representation.

You will probably want to learn about ?refactoring? to see if that's
related to what you mean <URL:http://www.refactoring.com/>.

> Something like Bicycle Repair Man then:

Bicycle Repair Man has not shown any development activity since 2004.
Which is a shame, because it's an awesomely appropriate name for what it
does :-)

The niche is now occupied by the Rope library and tools
<URL:http://rope.sourceforge.net/>.

-- 
 \                            ?Holy knit one purl two, Batman!? ?Robin |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 20:51:36 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:51:36 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
> Analysis of each domain is
> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>
>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
> they parse web pages.  

You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
that.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb  3 20:57:18 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:57:18 +1100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1866.1265236089.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fx5hn4ox.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> It is perfectly reasonable (and often necessary) for the unit test of
> class B to use a mock object instead of a real A() instance. The unit
> test for class B will fail to catch the renaming of A.foo() to A.bar()
> because it never tries to call .foo() on a real A instance.

Right, which is one good reason why unit tests are *necessary* but not
*sufficient*. You also need so-called ?integration? tests (make sure
modules work together as expected) and ?system? tests (make sure the
whole running system behaves as expected).

This need for testing is true regardless of whether you're using a
statically-typed or dynamically-typed language, of course. (I hope
no-one here thinks that static typing obviates the need for integration
and system tests in the test suite.)

-- 
 \     ?It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to |
  `\    persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.? ?Carl |
_o__)                                                            Sagan |
Ben Finney


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 21:08:52 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:08:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 8:47?am, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, calling os.path.walk() and os.path.join() all the time on raw
> strings is fun, but I seem to recall from my Ruby days a class called
> Pathname, which presented an object that behaved like a string at
> need, and like a filesystem path at need. path + 'folder' would
> call .join() and insert the / correctly, for example.
>
> What's the best equivalent in Python-land?

It's no longer supported, but the 3rd party 'path' module used to be
the go-to module for this:

>>> from path import path
C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\path.py:32: DeprecationWarning: the md5
module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
  import sys, warnings, os, fnmatch, glob, shutil, codecs, md5
>>> c = path('C:\\')
>>> c.listdir()
[path(u'C:\\AUTOEXEC.BAT'), path(u'C:\\boot.ini'), ...]
>>> (c + 'python26').listdir()
[path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
\python26\\DLLs'), ...]
>>> (c / 'python26').listdir()
[path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
\python26\\DLLs'), ...]

I've hand edited the results for brevity...

The module could do with some TLC to bring it up to date, but warning
aside it still seems to work fine under 2.6.

(From memory, I think the original author gave up when it became clear
it would never be integrated into the standard lib[1], which is a
shame, I think there's scope for a pathtools addition to the lib that
provides this level of convenience...)

There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/

Hope this helps.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 21:17:06 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:17:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<4da2372c-954c-46b8-a6e9-2768bce812f5@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9735bc7-eed6-4c6e-9368-c6cd690b9b01@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

"Timothy N. Tsvetkov" <timothy.tsvet... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> > Python is much, much cleaner. I don't know how anyone can honestly say
> > Ruby is cleaner than Python.
>
> I developed on both (Python was first) and I think that ruby I
> very clean and maybe cleaner than Python.
>
> And you're wrong with blocks.

You say 'static', and I say 'dynamic'.
You say 'consistent', and I say 'erratic'.
Static! Dynamic!
Consistent! Erratic!
Let's join the right news group.


From mf2286 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 21:33:33 2010
From: mf2286 at gmail.com (mf)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:33:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repeat an exception
Message-ID: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

I'm translating a db from english to spanish with the Google
translator API. The problem is when a TranslationError occurs(usually
because of connection problems). I can
except the first one, but I don't know how to except again. I "solved"
the problem by saving temp db's and then joining them, but it must be
a pythonic way to do it.

Here's a snippet from the code:

english_field = oldDb[i].fieldData[0]           #oldDb is a db filled
with english words
    try:
        spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
lang_from='en')
    except TranslationError:
        spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
lang_from='en')

#Then I save the fields into a new db


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb  3 21:52:14 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:52:14 +0000
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.04.02.52.13.719000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:09:07 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

>> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
>> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
>> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.
> 
> GET parameters also tend to get recorded in the http logs of web proxies
> and web servers while POST parameters usually aren't.

More significantly, they'll appear in the Referer: header for any link the
user follows from the page, so they're visible to anyone who can get a
link to their site onto the page (whether <a href=...>, <img src=...> or
whatever).

Even if this isn't possible at the moment, will you remember to fix it the
first time you allow an off-site link?

You should assume that anything which goes into a GET request is visible
to the entire world. Don't put anything even remotely private in there.




From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb  3 21:56:53 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:56:53 +0100
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* David Monaghan:
> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but in
> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
> not the one the script is in.
> 
> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
> technique, I suppose).
> 
> The program fails at:
> 
>     try:
>         tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>     except IOError:
>         <snip>

The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.

Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the problem.

Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the problem. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb  3 22:00:45 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:00:45 +0100
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* mf:
> I'm translating a db from english to spanish with the Google
> translator API. The problem is when a TranslationError occurs(usually
> because of connection problems). I can
> except the first one, but I don't know how to except again. I "solved"
> the problem by saving temp db's and then joining them, but it must be
> a pythonic way to do it.
> 
> Here's a snippet from the code:
> 
> english_field = oldDb[i].fieldData[0]           #oldDb is a db filled
> with english words

Is this actual code? I may be mistaken, but at least in Python 3.x it seems 
there should be a comma between each 'with' expression. And there should 
certainly be a colon at the end.

It's best to copy and paste real code.

Made-up code can just be misleading for those who'd like to help.


>     try:
>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
> lang_from='en')
>     except TranslationError:
>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
> lang_from='en')
> 
> #Then I save the fields into a new db

Possibly I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but have you thought of using a loop?


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb  3 22:09:02 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:09:02 -0300
Subject: Code snippet: dualmethod descriptor
References: <0373b8b9$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7k1pcbwx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:06:18 -0300, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> escribi?:

> class dualmethod(object):
>     """Descriptor implementing dualmethods (combination
>     class/instance method).
>
>     Returns a method which takes either an instance or a class as
>     the first argument. When called on an instance, the instance is
>     passed as the first argument. When called as a class, the class
>     itself is passed instead.

Seems useful!
Perhaps a better place to post it would be
<http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/>, at least it's easier
to search.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Wed Feb  3 22:14:59 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:14:59 -0500
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002031914u1cb4c714ve7d84dd97b6d89aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> * David Monaghan:
>>
>> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but
>> in
>> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
>> not the one the script is in.
>>
>> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
>> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>> technique, I suppose).
>>
>> The program fails at:
>>
>> ? ?try:
>> ? ? ? ?tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>> ? ?except IOError:
>> ? ? ? ?<snip>
>
> The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.
>
> Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the problem.
>
> Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the
> problem. :-)
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

That is the smallest example the exhibits the problem. It's not an
issue with the Python code, it's an issue with how Windows is running
it. I don't know enough about the way Windows Explorer runs files, but
it seems to be doing the equivalent of
cd C:\Python31
python31.exe C:\full\path\to\script\foo.py

instead of
cd C:\full\path\path\to\script
C:\Python31\python.exe foo.py
which is David expected. This throws off the relative filepath.

The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.

import os.path
#get the absolute path to the current script
abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)

 # get the full path to the directory of the script
directory = os.path.dirname(abs_path)

#get the full path to your file
my_file = os.path.join(directory, "MyFile.xml")


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb  3 22:17:43 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:17:43 +0000
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * mf:
>> I'm translating a db from english to spanish with the Google
>> translator API. The problem is when a TranslationError occurs(usually
>> because of connection problems). I can
>> except the first one, but I don't know how to except again. I "solved"
>> the problem by saving temp db's and then joining them, but it must be
>> a pythonic way to do it.
>>
>> Here's a snippet from the code:
>>
>> english_field = oldDb[i].fieldData[0]           #oldDb is a db filled
>> with english words
> 
> Is this actual code? I may be mistaken, but at least in Python 3.x it 
> seems there should be a comma between each 'with' expression. And there 
> should certainly be a colon at the end.
> 
> It's best to copy and paste real code.
> 
> Made-up code can just be misleading for those who'd like to help.
> 
It looks to me like the line wrapped during posting, ie the 'with' part 
belongs to the comment.

> 
>>     try:
>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
>> lang_from='en')
>>     except TranslationError:
>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
>> lang_from='en')
>>
>> #Then I save the fields into a new db
> 
> Possibly I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but have you thought of 
> using a loop?
> 
In other words:

for attempt in range(2):
     try:
         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es', 
lang_from='en')
         break
     except TranslationError:
         pass
else:
     # Didn't break out of the loop, therefore not successful.
     print "Translation failed"


From michael.gruenstaeudl at mail.utexas.edu  Wed Feb  3 22:33:08 2010
From: michael.gruenstaeudl at mail.utexas.edu (Michael Gruenstaeudl)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:33:08 -0600
Subject: Refreshing of urllib.urlopen()
Message-ID: <20100203213308.sk3w3fz0g0g804gc@webmail.utexas.edu>

Hi,
I am fairly new to Python and need advice on the urllib.urlopen()  
function. The website I am trying to open automatically refreshes  
after 5 seconds and remains stable thereafter. With  
urllib.urlopen().read() I can only read the initial but not the  
refreshed page. How can I access the refreshed page via  
urlopen().read()? I have already tried to intermediate with  
time.sleep() before invoking .read() (see below), but this does not  
work.

page=urllib.urlopen(url)
time.sleep(20)
htmltext=page.readlines()

Thanks,
Michael G.









From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb  3 22:44:00 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:44:00 +0100
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1878.1265253469.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1878.1265253469.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkdfq2$9aj$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* MRAB:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * mf:
>>> I'm translating a db from english to spanish with the Google
>>> translator API. The problem is when a TranslationError occurs(usually
>>> because of connection problems). I can
>>> except the first one, but I don't know how to except again. I "solved"
>>> the problem by saving temp db's and then joining them, but it must be
>>> a pythonic way to do it.
>>>
>>> Here's a snippet from the code:
>>>
>>> english_field = oldDb[i].fieldData[0]           #oldDb is a db filled
>>> with english words
>>
>> Is this actual code? I may be mistaken, but at least in Python 3.x it 
>> seems there should be a comma between each 'with' expression. And 
>> there should certainly be a colon at the end.
>>
>> It's best to copy and paste real code.
>>
>> Made-up code can just be misleading for those who'd like to help.
>>
> It looks to me like the line wrapped during posting, ie the 'with' part 
> belongs to the comment.

*banging me head*

thx

What one gets from conditioning oneself to ignore comments in code.


>>>     try:
>>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
>>> lang_from='en')
>>>     except TranslationError:
>>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
>>> lang_from='en')
>>>
>>> #Then I save the fields into a new db
>>
>> Possibly I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but have you thought of 
>> using a loop?
>>
> In other words:
> 
> for attempt in range(2):
>     try:
>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es', 
> lang_from='en')
>         break
>     except TranslationError:
>         pass
> else:
>     # Didn't break out of the loop, therefore not successful.
>     print "Translation failed"

Cheers,

- Alf


From nagle at animats.com  Wed Feb  3 22:46:43 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:46:43 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>> Analysis of each domain is
>> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
>> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>>
>>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
>> they parse web pages.  
> 
> You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
> pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
> cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
> know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
> fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
> that.

    I already use separate processes for different domains.  I could
live with Python's GIL as long as moving to a multicore server
doesn't make performance worse.  That's why I asked about CPU dedication
for each process, to avoid thrashing at the GIL.

    There's enough intercommunication between the threads working on
a single site that it's a pain to do them as subprocesses. And I
definitely don't want to launch subprocesses for each page; the
Python load time would be worse than the actual work.  The
subprocess module assumes you're willing to launch a subprocess
for each transaction.

    The current program organization is that there's a scheduler
process which gets requests, prioritizes them, and runs the requested
domains through the site evaluation mill.  The scheduler maintains a
pool of worker processes which get work request via their input pipe, in Pickle
format, and return results, again in Pickle format.  When not in
use, the worker processes sit there dormant, so there's no Python
launch cost for each transaction.  If a worker process crashes, the
scheduler replaces it with a fresh one, and every few hundred uses,
each worker process is replaced with a fresh copy, in case Python
has a memory leak.   It's a lot like the way
FCGI works.

    Scheduling is managed using an in-memory
table in MySQL, so the load can be spread over a cluster if desired,
with a scheduler process on each machine.

    So I already have a scalable architecture.  The only problem
is excess overhead on multicore CPUs.

				John Nagle


From cmpython at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 22:50:00 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:50:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Background Zones in Pylab Plot
References: <1eaf6046-db41-44b5-8c9e-b7a15e4cf078@30g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5a9e5eaf-2006-4dfe-8498-a544c09a8584@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:49?am, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> I would like to add background zones in pylab plots. Colored sections
> of the background that the curves pass through. Is this possible? My
> google searches don't turn up anything but maybe my search terms
> aren't the right ones.
>
> Thanks

If you look at the matplotlib gallery, I think there may be some
images
that show something like what you want, and then you can look at the
code.  It's here:

http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/gallery.html

HTH,
Che


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 22:50:19 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:50:19 -0500
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <hkdg60$bp0$1@ger.gmane.org>

John Nagle wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>>> Analysis of each domain is
>>> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
>>> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>>>
>>>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
>>> they parse web pages.  
>>
>> You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
>> pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
>> cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
>> know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
>> fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
>> that.
> 
>    I already use separate processes for different domains.  I could
> live with Python's GIL as long as moving to a multicore server
> doesn't make performance worse.  That's why I asked about CPU dedication
> for each process, to avoid thrashing at the GIL.
> 
I believe it's already been said that the GIL thrashing is mostly MacOS
specific. You might also find something in the affinity module

  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/affinity/0.1.0

to ensure that each process in your pool runs on only one processor.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From hidura at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:00:56 2010
From: hidura at gmail.com (Hidura)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:00:56 -0400
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
Message-ID: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>

Good evening list, I have a really big trouble with the imports in the 3.1
version(Notes: In the older 2.64 theres no problems), I have two packages,
the first package Utilities who contains Writer the second package, Writers
contain the module tagmanip(What is imported in the best way inside the
__init__.py of the Writer), when i make  the import inside the writer
everything is ok, but from the Utilities package the errors says:
"ImportError: No module named tagsmanip".
I don't understand why this is happening, if somebody could help me i will
glad to hear any suggestion.


Atte.
-- 
Diego I. Hidalgo D.
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 23:02:35 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:02:35 -0500
Subject: Refreshing of urllib.urlopen()
In-Reply-To: <20100203213308.sk3w3fz0g0g804gc@webmail.utexas.edu>
References: <20100203213308.sk3w3fz0g0g804gc@webmail.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <hkdgt0$df0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Michael Gruenstaeudl wrote:
> Hi,
> I am fairly new to Python and need advice on the urllib.urlopen()
> function. The website I am trying to open automatically refreshes after
> 5 seconds and remains stable thereafter. With urllib.urlopen().read() I
> can only read the initial but not the refreshed page. How can I access
> the refreshed page via urlopen().read()? I have already tried to
> intermediate with time.sleep() before invoking .read() (see below), but
> this does not work.
> 
> page=urllib.urlopen(url)
> time.sleep(20)
> htmltext=page.readlines()
> 
When you say the page "refreshes" every 5 seconds, does it do so by
redirecting the browser to the same address with new content?

I suspect this is the case, because otherwise page.readlines() would not
return because it wouldn't have seen the "end of file" on the incoming
network stream.

You can find this out by examining the page's headers. If

   page.headers['Refresh']

exists and has a value (like "5; url=http://<same url>") then browser
refresh is being used.

If that's so then the only way to access the content is to re-open the
URL and read the updated content.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:13:18 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:13:18 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002032013s2ba4fdc6t48e0dbc5a292636d@mail.gmail.com>

>> > [?] system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates
>> > relevant portions of text from internal database-alike
>> > representation.
>
> You will probably want to learn about ?refactoring? to see if that's
> related to what you mean <URL:http://www.refactoring.com/>.

I mean if system actually "understands" your code (instead of try to
figure it out from existing text files with source code), then much
more complex refactoring is possible. My favorite refactoring is
"Replace Method with Method Object". It is hard to imagine "external"
tool that can provide such refactoring for python code.

>> Something like Bicycle Repair Man then:
> Bicycle Repair Man has not shown any development activity since 2004.
> Which is a shame, because it's an awesomely appropriate name for what it
> does :-)

I believe it still live under the hood of PyDev plugin. I use it
almost every day and need to say that it don't provide much more than
simple renaming (which works right in 80% of cases in recent version).


Vladimir Ignatov


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb  3 23:18:38 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:18:38 +0100
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Benjamin Kaplan:
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>> * David Monaghan:
>>> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>>> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>>> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but
>>> in
>>> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
>>> not the one the script is in.
>>>
>>> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
>>> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>>> technique, I suppose).
>>>
>>> The program fails at:
>>>
>>>    try:
>>>        tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>>>    except IOError:
>>>        <snip>
>> The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.
>>
>> Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the problem.
>>
>> Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the
>> problem. :-)
>>
>>
>> Cheers & hth.,
>>
>> - Alf
> 
> That is the smallest example the exhibits the problem.

No, it doesn't seem to exhibit the problem at all. :-)


> It's not an
> issue with the Python code, it's an issue with how Windows is running
> it. I don't know enough about the way Windows Explorer runs files, but
> it seems to be doing the equivalent of
> cd C:\Python31
> python31.exe C:\full\path\to\script\foo.py
> 
> instead of
> cd C:\full\path\path\to\script
> C:\Python31\python.exe foo.py
> which is David expected. This throws off the relative filepath.

No, this is not what happens.

What happens is that when you double-click the script, then __file__ is set to 
the absolute path instead of just the filename, at least on my machine (XP); 
whether the full path or just the filename is passed on the OS level depends, 
however, on the Windows version.

The current directory is always (initially) correct, as the script's directory.


> The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
> relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
> script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
> out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.
> 
> import os.path
> #get the absolute path to the current script
> abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)

According to the docs: "On most platforms, this is equivalent to 
normpath(join(os.getcwd(), path))."

Therefore, if getcwd() is not the script's directory, as you hypothesize above, 
then most likely the result of this code is Not The Path You're Looking For.

However, since the current directory is in fact OK, the above is one way to get 
a sort of canonical (a where-you-know-the-format) representation of __file__.


>  # get the full path to the directory of the script
> directory = os.path.dirname(abs_path)

This is very much likely to yield the same result as calling os.getcwd(); see above.


> #get the full path to your file
> my_file = os.path.join(directory, "MyFile.xml")


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Wed Feb  3 23:41:00 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:41:00 -0500
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002032041o26ed25bfs68daaf143dcb89b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> * Benjamin Kaplan:
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>>
>>> * David Monaghan:
>>>>
>>>> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>>>> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>>>> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but
>>>> in
>>>> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31
>>>> folder,
>>>> not the one the script is in.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the
>>>> behaviour
>>>> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>>>> technique, I suppose).
>>>>
>>>> The program fails at:
>>>>
>>>> ? try:
>>>> ? ? ? tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>>>> ? except IOError:
>>>> ? ? ? <snip>
>>>
>>> The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.
>>>
>>> Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the
>>> problem. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers & hth.,
>>>
>>> - Alf
>>
>> That is the smallest example the exhibits the problem.
>
> No, it doesn't seem to exhibit the problem at all. :-)
>
>
>> It's not an
>> issue with the Python code, it's an issue with how Windows is running
>> it. I don't know enough about the way Windows Explorer runs files, but
>> it seems to be doing the equivalent of
>> cd C:\Python31
>> python31.exe C:\full\path\to\script\foo.py
>>
>> instead of
>> cd C:\full\path\path\to\script
>> C:\Python31\python.exe foo.py
>> which is David expected. This throws off the relative filepath.
>
> No, this is not what happens.
>
> What happens is that when you double-click the script, then __file__ is set
> to the absolute path instead of just the filename, at least on my machine
> (XP); whether the full path or just the filename is passed on the OS level
> depends, however, on the Windows version.
>
> The current directory is always (initially) correct, as the script's
> directory.
>

Read my first paragraph again- it has absolutely nothing to do with
Python. It has to do with how the Windows is running Python 3 on the
OP's computer. The OP's description said that it was looking for the
file .\\myfile.xml in C:\Python31 which means it translated '.', the
current working directory, to be C:\Python31 and not the directory the
script is in.

>
>> The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
>> relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
>> script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
>> out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.
>>
>> import os.path
>> #get the absolute path to the current script
>> abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)
>
> According to the docs: "On most platforms, this is equivalent to
> normpath(join(os.getcwd(), path))."
>

os.path.abspath will always work in this case (unless something
changes the current working directory before that statement runs)
because __file__ is given either as an absolute path or as relative to
the current working directory.

----- /Users/bkaplan/test/test.py
print(__file__)
import os.path
print(os.path.abspath(__file__))
------------------

$ cd /users/bkaplan
$ python3 test/test.py
python3 test/test.py
test/test.py
/Users/bkaplan/test/test.py

$cd /users/bkaplan/test
$ python3 test.py
test.py
/Users/bkaplan/test/test.py


If abspath is given an absolute path, it won't touch it

Output from double clicking on the file:
/Users/bkaplan/test/test.py
/Users/bkaplan/test/test.py





> Therefore, if getcwd() is not the script's directory, as you hypothesize
> above, then most likely the result of this code is Not The Path You're
> Looking For.
>

Except that if the cwd is not the directory the script is running in,
__file__ should still point to it either through an absolute path
(highly likely since it's run through Windows Explorer) or some
(however convoluted) relative path.

> However, since the current directory is in fact OK, the above is one way to
> get a sort of canonical (a where-you-know-the-format) representation of
> __file__.
>
>
>> ?# get the full path to the directory of the script
>> directory = os.path.dirname(abs_path)
>
> This is very much likely to yield the same result as calling os.getcwd();
> see above.
>

Not if there is more than one folder between __file__ and cwd. For
instance, if the script is in a package several directories down from
the main script.

>
>> #get the full path to your file
>> my_file = os.path.join(directory, "MyFile.xml")
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb  4 00:20:47 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:20:47 +0100
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Benjamin Kaplan:
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>> * Benjamin Kaplan:
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>>> * David Monaghan:
>>>>> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>>>>> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>>>>> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but
>>>>> in
>>>>> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31
>>>>> folder,
>>>>> not the one the script is in.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the
>>>>> behaviour
>>>>> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>>>>> technique, I suppose).
>>>>>
>>>>> The program fails at:
>>>>>
>>>>>   try:
>>>>>       tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>>>>>   except IOError:
>>>>>       <snip>
>>>> The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.
>>>>
>>>> Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the
>>>> problem. :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers & hth.,
>>>>
>>>> - Alf
>>> That is the smallest example the exhibits the problem.
>> No, it doesn't seem to exhibit the problem at all. :-)
>>
>>
>>> It's not an
>>> issue with the Python code, it's an issue with how Windows is running
>>> it. I don't know enough about the way Windows Explorer runs files, but
>>> it seems to be doing the equivalent of
>>> cd C:\Python31
>>> python31.exe C:\full\path\to\script\foo.py
>>>
>>> instead of
>>> cd C:\full\path\path\to\script
>>> C:\Python31\python.exe foo.py
>>> which is David expected. This throws off the relative filepath.
>> No, this is not what happens.
>>
>> What happens is that when you double-click the script, then __file__ is set
>> to the absolute path instead of just the filename, at least on my machine
>> (XP); whether the full path or just the filename is passed on the OS level
>> depends, however, on the Windows version.
>>
>> The current directory is always (initially) correct, as the script's
>> directory.
>>
> 
> Read my first paragraph again- it has absolutely nothing to do with
> Python. It has to do with how the Windows is running Python 3 on the
> OP's computer.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

But anyway, first, I haven't stated that "it" is (only) an issue with Python: on 
the contrary, I explained how the program is run by Windows Explorer, where in 
Windows XP the full path is passed by Windows Explorer, and how that results in 
(can result in) a full path in __file__ when a script is run by double-clicking.

Second, as stated your hypothesis about current directory is Wrong(TM).

So the explanation of an incorrect result involves not only Windows Explorer, 
the Windows version, and Python, but also the OP's code is involved.

Hence the request for a minimal, complete example  --  which is nearly always a 
good idea.



> The OP's description said that it was looking for the
> file .\\myfile.xml in C:\Python31 which means it translated '.', the
> current working directory, to be C:\Python31 and not the directory the
> script is in.

I fail to reproduce that behavior.

By the way, are you the OP (just with another name)?

If not, have you reproduced the described behavior? Then kindly post the code.


>>> The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
>>> relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
>>> script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
>>> out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.
>>>
>>> import os.path
>>> #get the absolute path to the current script
>>> abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)
>> According to the docs: "On most platforms, this is equivalent to
>> normpath(join(os.getcwd(), path))."
>>
> 
> os.path.abspath will always work in this case (unless something
> changes the current working directory before that statement runs)

Which change is what you surmised as a cause of the original problem.

Hello.


> because __file__ is given either as an absolute path or as relative to
> the current working directory.

No, that's incorrect.


<code py="3.1">
import os

print( "Current directory: [" + os.getcwd() + "]" )
print( "__file__ = " + __file__ )
os.chdir( "blah" )
print( "Current directory: [" + os.getcwd() + "]" )
print( "__file__ = " + __file__ )
</code>


<example>
C:\Documents and Settings\Alf\test> python curdir.py
Current directory: [C:\Documents and Settings\Alf\test]
__file__ = curdir.py
Current directory: [C:\Documents and Settings\Alf\test\blah]
__file__ = curdir.py                    <-- *Not* relative to cwd.

C:\Documents and Settings\Alf\test> _
</example>


[snip]
> Except that if the cwd is not the directory the script is running in,
> __file__ should still point to it either through an absolute path
> (highly likely since it's run through Windows Explorer) or some
> (however convoluted) relative path.

Don't know about "should", but if you're talking reality, no, that's incorrect; 
see above.

[snip]


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb  4 00:46:45 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:46:45 +0100
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Alf P. Steinbach:
> * Benjamin Kaplan:
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>> * Benjamin Kaplan:
>>>> The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
>>>> relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
>>>> script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
>>>> out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.
>>>>
>>>> import os.path
>>>> #get the absolute path to the current script
>>>> abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)
>>> According to the docs: "On most platforms, this is equivalent to
>>> normpath(join(os.getcwd(), path))."
>>>
>>
>> os.path.abspath will always work in this case (unless something
>> changes the current working directory before that statement runs)
> 
> Which change is what you surmised as a cause of the original problem.
> 
> Hello.
> 
> 
>> because __file__ is given either as an absolute path or as relative to
>> the current working directory.
> 
> No, that's incorrect.

Oh sorry, now I see what you mean. I read it too literally. You mean that at 
script startup __file__ is a valid relative or absolute path to the script.

But anyways, Windows Explorer doesn't change the current directory to that of 
the associated program, at least not in Windows XP.

Where there *is* a difference with double-clicking the script is in the path 
that ends up as __file__.


[snip my silly code counter-example + even more silly comment]


Cheers,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 01:02:29 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:02:29 -0300
Subject: Refreshing of urllib.urlopen()
References: <20100203213308.sk3w3fz0g0g804gc@webmail.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <op.u7k9qf05x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:33:08 -0300, Michael Gruenstaeudl  
<michael.gruenstaeudl at mail.utexas.edu> escribi?:

> I am fairly new to Python and need advice on the urllib.urlopen()  
> function. The website I am trying to open automatically refreshes after  
> 5 seconds and remains stable thereafter. With urllib.urlopen().read() I  
> can only read the initial but not the refreshed page. How can I access  
> the refreshed page via urlopen().read()? I have already tried to  
> intermediate with time.sleep() before invoking .read() (see below), but  
> this does not work.
>
> page=urllib.urlopen(url)
> time.sleep(20)
> htmltext=page.readlines()

How does the page refresh itself? If using a <meta http-equiv="refresh"  
...> tag, look at the url.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 01:11:06 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:11:06 -0300
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:00:56 -0300, Hidura <hidura at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Good evening list, I have a really big trouble with the imports in the  
> 3.1
> version(Notes: In the older 2.64 theres no problems), I have two  
> packages,
> the first package Utilities who contains Writer the second package,  
> Writers
> contain the module tagmanip(What is imported in the best way inside the
> __init__.py of the Writer), when i make  the import inside the writer
> everything is ok, but from the Utilities package the errors says:
> "ImportError: No module named tagsmanip".
> I don't understand why this is happening, if somebody could help me i  
> will
> glad to hear any suggestion.

In Python 3.x, "absolute" import is enabled by default (2.6 uses a mix of  
relative and absolute imports).
To import sibling modules in a package, or modules in a subpackage, you  
have to use relative imports:

 from . import tagmanip
 from .Writers import tagmanip

See PEP328 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From nagle at animats.com  Thu Feb  4 01:11:56 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:11:56 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1880.1265255448.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.1880.1265255448.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6a6150$0$1656$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
> John Nagle wrote:
>> Paul Rubin wrote:
>>> John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>>>> Analysis of each domain is
>>>> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
>>>> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>>>>
>>>>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
>>>> they parse web pages.  
>>> You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
>>> pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
>>> cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
>>> know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
>>> fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
>>> that.
>>    I already use separate processes for different domains.  I could
>> live with Python's GIL as long as moving to a multicore server
>> doesn't make performance worse.  That's why I asked about CPU dedication
>> for each process, to avoid thrashing at the GIL.
>>
> I believe it's already been said that the GIL thrashing is mostly MacOS
> specific. You might also find something in the affinity module

    No, the original analysis was MacOS oriented, but the same mechanism
applies for fighting over the GIL on all platforms.  There was some
pontification that it might be a MacOS-only issue, but no facts
were presented.  It might be cheaper on C implementations with mutexes
that don't make system calls for the non-blocking cases.

					John Nagle


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 01:27:16 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:27:16 -0300
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7lavq0lx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:46:45 -0300, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no>  
escribi?:

> Oh sorry, now I see what you mean. I read it too literally. You mean  
> that at script startup __file__ is a valid relative or absolute path to  
> the script.
>
> But anyways, Windows Explorer doesn't change the current directory to  
> that of the associated program, at least not in Windows XP.

But the associated program might change the current directory - that's not  
the case with the default associations created by the Python installer,  
but one should verify this.
To the OP: please create this small test script

import os
print("curdir=", os.getcwd())
print("__file__=", __file__)
input()

and post what you get when you double-click on it.

Also, from the command line, execute:

D:\temp>reg query HKCR\.py

! REG.EXE VERSION 3.0

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py
     <Sin nombre>        REG_SZ  Python.File
     Content Type        REG_SZ  text/plain

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py\PersistentHandler

D:\temp>reg query HKCR\Python.File\shell\open\command

! REG.EXE VERSION 3.0

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\open\command
     <Sin nombre>        REG_SZ  "D:\Apps\Python26\python.exe" "%1" %*


The first command says that files ending with .py are of type  
"Python.File", the second one says which command is executed to open a  
"Python.File" file.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From cournape at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 01:33:10 2010
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:33:10 +0900
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002032013s2ba4fdc6t48e0dbc5a292636d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<c02acca21002032013s2ba4fdc6t48e0dbc5a292636d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b8d13221002032233m7d4cd716te38d8eafdc888002@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Vladimir Ignatov <kmisoft at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > [?] system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates
>>> > relevant portions of text from internal database-alike
>>> > representation.
>>
>> You will probably want to learn about ?refactoring? to see if that's
>> related to what you mean <URL:http://www.refactoring.com/>.
>
> I mean if system actually "understands" your code (instead of try to
> figure it out from existing text files with source code), then much
> more complex refactoring is possible. My favorite refactoring is
> "Replace Method with Method Object". It is hard to imagine "external"
> tool that can provide such refactoring for python code.

You may be interested by this project, then:

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=9c768dc61001121642t5bd1a7ddmd1fe9e088e1d9ab0 at mail.gmail.com

It seems limited to Jython implementation unfortunately,

cheers,

David


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 01:57:40 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:57:40 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7xsk9hxzbv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>    There's enough intercommunication between the threads working on
> a single site that it's a pain to do them as subprocesses. And I
> definitely don't want to launch subprocesses for each page; the
> Python load time would be worse than the actual work.  The
> subprocess module assumes you're willing to launch a subprocess
> for each transaction.

Why not just use socketserver and have something like a fastcgi?


From hirotaka.niitsuma at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 02:10:02 2010
From: hirotaka.niitsuma at gmail.com (Niitsuma Hirotaka)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:10:02 +0900
Subject: python via netcat
Message-ID: <6ce56e1a1002032310j7f20c4a6q818ccb61a6ea1502@mail.gmail.com>

I write little script  run python  via netcat

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~niitsuma/jsonrpcdirect.html

Usage

$ netcat localhost 31415
{"method": "numpy.linalg.norm", "params": [[2,2]], "id": 0}

then get response

{"result": 2.8284271247461903, "error": null, "id": 0}


From stephen.thorne at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 02:15:31 2010
From: stephen.thorne at gmail.com (Stephen Thorne)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:15:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcbad1dd-9a1d-4d06-aad1-a4b3c1d014ed@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 6:40?am, Xah Lee <xah... at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a short complaint on adminabuseon #pythonircchannel on
> freenode.net.
>
> Here's a log:
>
> 2010-02-02
>
> (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #pythonis: NO LOL |http://pound-python.org/
> | It's too early to usePython3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:http://paste.pocoo.org/| Tutorial:http://docs.python.org/tut/| FAQ:http://effbot.org/pyfaq/| New Programmer? Readhttp://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
> | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
> #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
> offtopic
> (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
> actually.
> (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
> (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
> (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
> etc) right is quite tricky
> (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
> wondering whats up with thepythonverison :D
> (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

G'day,

My name is Stephen Thorne, and my nick on #python is Jerub. dash and I
are both ops on the #python IRC channel.

According to my logs the most recent time I have banned you from
#python was the 16th of June, 2006, when I established that you were
the same troll that posts to this usenet group.

I have no interest in letting you troll #python, and thoroughly
approve of dash's responsible behaviour as a joint custodian of the
#python irc channel. Maintaining a high signal to noise ratio is
difficult, and we appreciate that in this particular case you have
acknowledged that you were made unwelcome in our IRC community and
will endeavour to avoid it in future.

Regards,
Stephen Thorne




From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 03:41:44 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:41:44 +0100
Subject: PyChecker under python's virtualenv
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1874.1265244775.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl> <7sub7uFstoU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.1874.1265244775.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7svfiaFvilU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 01:52, schrieb Steve Holden:
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> Am 03.02.10 22:46, schrieb soltys:
>>> Hi Everybody,
>>> I've been doing some test on pythons' virtualenv and recently I've
>>> decided to run PyChecker. But I'm having some difficulties with importing
>>> modules available only on virtualenv by pychecker. As if it was
>>> trying to use systemwide python.
>>> I've googled about it, and found nothing in this area.
>>> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
>>> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.
>>
>> I doubt that it uses the "correct python", because then you wouldn't
>> have the problems you have.
>>
>> I don't use pychecker, but pylint. And there, the system-wide command
>> uses the system's python - which of course doesn't know anything about
>> virtualenv.
>>
>> There are two solutions to this problem:
>>
>>   - install py(lint|checker) into your virtualenv.
>
> See the OP's original assertion:
>
>>> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
>>> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.
>
> Isn't that "installing into his virtualenv"?

You are right, it reads like that. I should have read it better.

All I can say is that even a system-wide pylint with my recipe above 
gives me no troubles.

Diez


From purui.wang at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 03:52:55 2010
From: purui.wang at gmail.com (purui)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:52:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69fb5e89-2ad6-42c0-b4c8-c322bd812e05@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>


> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"
>

That is partially why I created this search engine for python, to see
what parameters other people feed in.
http://nullege.com/



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 04:02:06 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:02:06 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7svgogF768U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Obviously if users want to record
> their own conversations, then I can't stop them, but that's much
> different than a non-participant in the conversation leaving a recorder
> running 24/7.  Is that so hard to understand?

Is it so hard to understand that this is not about laws and rights, but 
about technical properties of the HTTP-protocol?

Your web-based chat uses HTTP, no P2P-protocol, and thus the service 
provider *can* log conversations. I don't say he should, I don't say I 
want that, I don't say there are now laws that prevent them from doing 
so, all I say is he *can*.

> I certainly didn't feel that saving or not saving client conversations
> on the server side was up to my discretion.  When I found that the
> default server configuration caused conversations to be logged then I
> was appalled.

Then stop logging. Or get a hosting-provider that allows you to 
configure it to strip QUERY_STRINGS from log-entries. And if they refuse 
to, maybe using POST solves the issue.

But wait, there is

http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/apache-mod_dumpio-log-post-data/

So what if they run that?

So, for the umpteenth time: data sent over the wire can be recorded. 
 From the user's POV, your nitpicking of who's the actual culprit - the 
IT-guys, or the programmers - is fruitless. You have a nice anecdote 
where switching from GET to POST allowed you to trick whoever wasn't 
acting to your wishes. Good for you. But John B. and your posts indicate 
that using POST is inherently more secure. It *isn't*.


> Do you think the phone company has the right to record all your phone
> calls if they feel like it (absent something like a law enforcement
> investigation)?  What about coffee shops that you visit with your
> friends?  It is not up to their discretion.  They have a positive
> obligation to not do it.  If you think they are doing it on purpose
> without your authorization, you should notify the FBI or your
> equivalent, not just "don't use it".  If they find they are doing it
> inadvertently, they have to take measures to make it stop.  That is the
> situation I found myself in, because of the difference in how servers
> treat GET vs.  POST.

If they have a positive obligation not to do it, it doesn't matter if 
they run their service over GET or POST.

Again, this is not about laws and what service providers should or must 
do. It's about POST vs. GET, and if either of them is more secure or 
not. It isn't.


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 04:07:49 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:07:49 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <7svh39F8vvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 01:42, schrieb John Bokma:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>
>> Am 03.02.10 19:11, schrieb John Bokma:
>>> Alan Harris-Reid<alan at baselinedata.co.uk>   writes:
>>>
>>>> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
>>>> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
>>>> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
>>>> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
>>>> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
>>>> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>>>
>>> You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
>>> records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
>>> should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying information.
>>
>> You should *never* say never, because there might be situations where
>> exceptions from rules are valid. This is one such cases. Making this a
>> post means that you need to resort to javascript to populate&  submit
>> a hidden HTML-form. Just for the sake of a POST.
>
> Make each edit/delete button a submit button and optionally style it.

*slap* Yep, you are right, no JS needed. I should have thought about that.

>
>> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
>> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
>> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.
>
> Maybe you should think about what happens if someone posts:
> <img src="http://example.com/item_delete?id=123">  to a popular forum...

And the difference to posting

from urrlib2 import open
from urllib import encode

open("http://example.com/item_delete", data=encode([("id", "123")]))

to that same public "hacker" forum is exactly what?

If your webapp happens to allow item_delete to be called without 
authentication & authorization, then *that's* your problem.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 04:23:40 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:23:40 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.04.02.52.13.719000@nowhere.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.04.02.52.13.719000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <7svi0uFecmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 03:52, schrieb Nobody:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:09:07 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>>> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
>>> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
>>> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.
>>
>> GET parameters also tend to get recorded in the http logs of web proxies
>> and web servers while POST parameters usually aren't.
>
> More significantly, they'll appear in the Referer: header for any link the
> user follows from the page, so they're visible to anyone who can get a
> link to their site onto the page (whether<a href=...>,<img src=...>  or
> whatever).
>
> Even if this isn't possible at the moment, will you remember to fix it the
> first time you allow an off-site link?
>
> You should assume that anything which goes into a GET request is visible
> to the entire world. Don't put anything even remotely private in there.

You mean like

   http://www.google.de/search?q=dirty+buttsex

? Which is the key example for when to use GET - non-modifying queries.

I agree though that you have to be cautious about that, and using POST 
makes it easier to do so.

Diez


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 04:41:03 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:41:03 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <69fb5e89-2ad6-42c0-b4c8-c322bd812e05@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<69fb5e89-2ad6-42c0-b4c8-c322bd812e05@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002040141j63500b4fjb226944012dacd4c@mail.gmail.com>

> That is partially why I created this search engine for python, to see
> what parameters other people feed in.
> http://nullege.com/

Thank you for excellent effort! I found it very useful and start using
it on almost everyday basis. It's much simple to learn from real live
examples.

Vladimir Ignatov


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:27:49 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:27:49 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7svgogF768U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xeil1qore.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> Your web-based chat uses HTTP, no P2P-protocol, and thus the service
> provider *can* log conversations. I don't say he should, I don't say I
> want that, I don't say there are now laws that prevent them from doing
> so, all I say is he *can*.

Sure, my complaint is that the default setup caused this to actually
happen so lots of people using that software were recording user
conversations without realizing it and maybe without caring.  This
is a bad erosion as I see it.

> Then stop logging. Or get a hosting-provider that allows you to
> configure it to strip QUERY_STRINGS from log-entries. And if they
> refuse to, maybe using POST solves the issue.

I did stop logging.  There wasn't an issue with the hosting provider
since I was running the server myself.  But I had to resort to some ugly
software kludge to stop logging those particular strings.  More
frustratingly, I filed a bug report about the issue against the chat
software but the conversation was sort of like the one you and I are
having now.  I just couldn't convince them that there was a problem and
that they should change the default.

> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/apache-mod_dumpio-log-post-data/
> So what if they run that?

That sounds like something someone would have to go out of their way to
install and use.  It's not the default.  Of course if someone is
malicious they can do all sorts of nasty stuff.  A coffeeshop that
wanted to mess with me on purpose wouldn't have to do high tech crap
like recording my conversations--they could just poison my coffee.  I
have to trust them to not do this on purpose, but then I see a situation
where their coffee sweetener accidentaly has a harmful chemical, so of
course I'd ask them to do something about it.

> So, for the umpteenth time: data sent over the wire can be recorded. 

And for the umpteenth time, I'm less concerned about "can be" than "is".
POST isn't logged unless you go to some lengths to have it logged.  GET
is logged unless you go to some lengths to prevent it.  It's not enough
in a software deployment to only consider what actions are possible.
It's important to make sure that the default actions are the right ones.

> If they have a positive obligation not to do it, it doesn't matter if
> they run their service over GET or POST.

GET makes it harder for them to fulfill their obligations.  As a
security nerd, I saw what was happening and took measures against it,
but a more typical operator might never notice or care.

There is also the matter of the referer header which an anon mentioned,
though it didn't apply to this particular situation because of how
the application worked.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:32:01 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:32:01 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6aa21d$0$11075$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xaavpqoke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:
>> The buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123',
> ...At least use "POST" requests for anything that Create/Update/Delete
> resources.

There's also the issue that a user can change "123" to "125" and
possibly mess with someone else's resource, unless you use some server
side authentication.  Or just seeing how often the numbers change could
reveal patterns about what other users are doing.  I always think it's
best to encrypt anything sensitive like that, to avoid leaking any info.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:32:02 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:32:02 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6aa21d$0$11075$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Alan Harris-Reid a ?crit :
> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to 
> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The 
> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but 
> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the 
> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL 
> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).

Basic HTTP stuff - this is definitely not Python-related.
<OT>
Do yourself (and your users / customers / etc) a favor and read the HTTP 
rfc. "GET" requests should NOT modify the server state. At least use 
"POST" requests for anything that Create/Update/Delete resources.

For the record, someone once had serious problems with GET requests 
deleting records - turned out to be a very bad idea when a robot started 
following these links...
</OT>

> Is there another way of passing a record-id to a method

href="/item/23/edit"
href="/item/edit/23"

etc

> a) without it appearing in the URL?
> b) without the user being able to fathom-out how to attach which id to 
> which URL?

Wrong solution. The correct solution is to
1/ make correct use of the request method (GET and POST at least).
2/ make sure the user performing the action has the permission to do it.


1/ won't protect your data from malicious users, but will at least avoid 
accidental mistakes.

2/ by checking the user's perms when handling the POST request of course 
- not by hidding "forbidden" urls.

> As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone 
> from getting the id from the page source-code.

Nor even from trying any other id (brute-force attack).

>  Is it safe to use the 
> above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password 
> stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the edit/delete 
> action?

cf above.

> I am currently using CherryPy 3.2, but I guess the theory could apply to 
> any HTTP framework or web app..

Indeed.
</OT>



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 05:39:39 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:09:39 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>

Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
area.

hope the picture makes it clear
http://imagebin.us/images/p5qeo7hgc3547pnyrb6.gif
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:47:45 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:47:45 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4b6aa5cf$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Diez B. Roggisch a ?crit :
> Am 03.02.10 19:11, schrieb John Bokma:
>> Alan Harris-Reid<alan at baselinedata.co.uk>  writes:
>>
>>> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
>>> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
>>> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
>>> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
>>> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
>>> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>>
>> You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
>> records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
>> should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying 
>> information.
> 
> You should *never* say never, because there might be situations where 
> exceptions from rules are valid. This is one such cases.

Oh yes ?

> Making this a 
> post means that you need to resort to javascript to populate & submit a 
> hidden HTML-form. 

I beg your pardon ???? This is total nonsense. Hopefully you don't need 
any js to emit a post request from a browser ! The only thing you need 
to do is to use a form and submit input instead.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:52:12 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:52:12 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7xaavpqoke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6aa21d$0$11075$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7xaavpqoke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4b6aa6d6$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Paul Rubin a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:
>>> The buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123',
>> ...At least use "POST" requests for anything that Create/Update/Delete
>> resources.
> 
> There's also the issue that a user can change "123" to "125" and
> possibly mess with someone else's resource,
> unless you use some server
> side authentication.

What I said IIRC.

>  Or just seeing how often the numbers change could
> reveal patterns about what other users are doing.  I always think it's
> best to encrypt anything sensitive like that, to avoid leaking any info.

Depends on how "sensitive" it really is.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:53:21 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:53:21 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <4b6aa5cf$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4b6aa5cf$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b6aa71b$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Bruno Desthuilliers a ?crit :
> Diez B. Roggisch a ?crit :
(snip)
>> Making this a post means that you need to resort to javascript to 
>> populate & submit a hidden HTML-form. 
> 
> I beg your pardon ???? This is total nonsense. 

Sorry, posted too fast, John alredy adressed this.


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 05:54:58 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:54:58 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <5b8d13221002032233m7d4cd716te38d8eafdc888002@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<c02acca21002032013s2ba4fdc6t48e0dbc5a292636d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b8d13221002032233m7d4cd716te38d8eafdc888002@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002040254p14c80e3ej23fb4d88bd93656c@mail.gmail.com>

> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=9c768dc61001121642t5bd1a7ddmd1fe9e088e1d9ab0 at mail.gmail.com

Thanks a lot! That is a great reference (a must read for everybody
interested). Reading just this: "Internally at Google we have a
language-neutral representation shared by all our language analyzers,"
make me jumping ;-)  Googlers can't be wrong.

Vladimir Ignatov


From anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 06:13:58 2010
From: anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com (Anh Hai Trinh)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:13:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	<4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <c9309bc7-be7e-4155-a5d5-fa2ab3f8fa6c@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 10:46?am, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>
> ? ? There's enough intercommunication between the threads working on
> a single site that it's a pain to do them as subprocesses. And I
> definitely don't want to launch subprocesses for each page; the
> Python load time would be worse than the actual work. ?The
> subprocess module assumes you're willing to launch a subprocess
> for each transaction.

You could perhaps use a process pool inside each domain worker to work
on the pages?  There is multiprocessing.Pool and other
implementations.

For examples, in this library, you can s/ThreadPool/ProcessPool/g and
this example would work: <http://www.onideas.ws/stream.py/#retrieving-
web-pages-concurrently>.

If you want to DIY, with multiprocessing.Lock/Pipe/Queue, I don't
understand why it would be more of a pain to write your threads as
processes.


// aht
http://blog.onideas.ws


From groups_ads12 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 06:16:50 2010
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is>

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<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+su\
pport>

sql server transaction log
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+tr\
ansaction+log>

sql server 2005 tools
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+20\
05+tools>

sql server backup database
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ba\
ckup+database>

sql server exec
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ex\
ec>

sql server joins
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+jo\
ins>

sql server null
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+nu\
ll>

sql server query analyzer
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+qu\
ery+analyzer>

tutorial sql server 2000
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=tutorial+sql+\
server+2000>

rename sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=rename+sql+se\
rver>

sql server help
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+he\
lp>

sql server indexes
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+in\
dexes>

sql server scripts
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+sc\
ripts>

sql server service
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+se\
rvice>

buy sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=buy+sql+serve\
r>

sql server 2000 backup
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+20\
00+backup>

sql server 2008 training
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+20\
08+training>

sql server best practices
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+be\
st+practices>

sql server development
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+de\
velopment>

sql server script
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+sc\
ript>

sql server tempdb
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+te\
mpdb>

ms sql server hosting
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=ms+sql+server\
+hosting>

sql server databases
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+da\
tabases>

sql server host
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ho\
st>

sql server tips
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ti\
ps>

performance tuning sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=performance+t\
uning+sql+server>

sql 2000 server download
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+2000+serv\
er+download>

sql server course
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+co\
urse>

sql server courses
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+co\
urses>

sql server guide
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+gu\
ide>

sql server maintenance
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ma\
intenance>

sql server permissions
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+pe\
rmissions>

learning sql server 2005
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=learning+sql+\
server+2005>

sql server 2005 tuning
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+20\
05+tuning>

sql server command
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+co\
mmand>

sql server data
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+da\
ta>

sql server execute
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ex\
ecute>

sql server table
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ta\
ble>

sql server utilities
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ut\
ilities>

msde sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=msde+sql+serv\
er>

sql server db
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+db\
>

setting up sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=setting+up+sq\
l+server>

sql server programmer
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+pr\
ogrammer>

using sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=using+sql+ser\
ver>

audit sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=audit+sql+ser\
ver>

performance tuning sql server 2005
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=performance+t\
uning+sql+server+2005>

sql server tables
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ta\
bles>

copy sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=copy+sql+serv\
er>

sql server 2005 recovery
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+20\
05+recovery>

syntax sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=syntax+sql+se\
rver>

sql server exams
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ex\
ams>

creating sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=creating+sql+\
server>

tsql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=tsql+server>

sqlserver server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sqlserver+ser\
ver>

differences sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=differences+s\
ql+server> 
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From lallous at lgwm.org  Thu Feb  4 06:34:04 2010
From: lallous at lgwm.org (lallous)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:34:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a multiline string
Message-ID: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello

Maybe that's already documented, but it seems the parser accepts to
build a long string w/o really using the first method:

# Method1
x = "line1" + \ # cannot use comments!
"line2"+ \
"line3"

and instead using a list with one element like this:

# Method2
x = [
"line1" # can use comments
"line2"
"line3"
][0]

Or:
# Method3
x = (
"line1" # can use comments
"line2"
"line3"
)

(Not that I don't want new lines in the strings)

Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?

--
Elias


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb  4 06:41:18 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:41:18 -0800
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com> wrote:
> Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
> all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
> area.

How is this at all specific to Python?

This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.

Cheers,
Chris
--
Back to toiling away on CSE 105 HW#3
http://blog.rebertia.com


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 06:47:43 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:17:43 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>

I wanted some general suggestion/tips only

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
> > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
> > area.
>
> How is this at all specific to Python?
>
> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> Back to toiling away on CSE 105 HW#3
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
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From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Feb  4 06:54:14 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:54:14 +1000
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure what you're after. Are you after how to calculate the area? Or
are you trying to graph it? Or an analytical solution?

What do you mean by "take out the intersection"?

-Xav

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> I wanted some general suggestion/tips only
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius
>> of
>> > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
>> > area.
>>
>> How is this at all specific to Python?
>>
>> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
>> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
>> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --
>> Back to toiling away on CSE 105 HW#3
>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 07:04:35 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:04:35 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <4B69A575.2020604@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>	<hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<4B69A575.2020604@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <hked4u$so3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Tim Golden wrote:
> On 03/02/2010 16:17, kj wrote:
>> Boy, that was dumb of me.  The above apology was meant for Stephen
>> Hansen, not Steve Holden.  I guess this is now a meta-apology...
>> (Sheesh.)
> 
> You see? That's what I like about the Python community:
> people even apologise for apologising :)
> 
QOTW?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:05:46 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:35:46 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>

I want to calculate areas.
like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'

similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
calculate the area common to all.
The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there any
other approach possible.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Xavier Ho <contact at xavierho.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure what you're after. Are you after how to calculate the area? Or
> are you trying to graph it? Or an analytical solution?
>
> What do you mean by "take out the intersection"?
>
> -Xav
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I wanted some general suggestion/tips only
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius
>>> of
>>> > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of
>>> their
>>> > area.
>>>
>>> How is this at all specific to Python?
>>>
>>> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
>>> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
>>> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>> --
>>> Back to toiling away on CSE 105 HW#3
>>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Thu Feb  4 07:09:46 2010
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:09:46 +0100
Subject: Building a multiline string
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a1qq37-bjg.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Just for the record: Neither of the below methods actually produce a
multiline string. They only spread a string containing one line over
multiple lines of source code.

lallous wrote:
> Maybe that's already documented, but it seems the parser accepts to
> build a long string w/o really using the first method:
> 
> # Method1
> x = "line1" + \ # cannot use comments!
> "line2"+ \
> "line3"

Well, obviously you can't use comments like that there. The point of the
backslash is that it continues the current logical line over the
_immediately_ _following_ newline. If anything follows, that obviously
doesn't work.

> and instead using a list with one element like this:
> 
> # Method2
> x = [
> "line1" # can use comments
> "line2"
> "line3"
> ][0]

This basically makes use of the fact that "this" "is" "one" "string" and not
four strings.

> # Method3
> x = (
> "line1" # can use comments
> "line2"
> "line3"
> )

This uses the same, only that this time it uses brackets which cause an
expression to extend to multiple lines.

> (Not that I don't want new lines in the strings)

You don't not want or you don't want newlines? Depending on that, you could
also do this:

# method 4
x = "line1"\
    "line2"\
    "line3"

or maybe

# method 5
x = """line1
line2
line3
"""


> Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?

I'd go for 3 or 4. 2 is basically a hack (you could do the same with a
dictionary, or a tuple, not only a list). 1 will actually create strings
and then concatenate them (unless Python is smart enough to optimize that),
but it allows adding expressions in the middle.

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 07:14:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:14:13 -0500
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4B6ABA15.7020307@holdenweb.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
>>> But it would be outrageous for the shop owner to record the
>>> conversations of patrons.
>> Which is the exact thing that happens when you use an email-provider
>> with IMAP. Or google wave. Or groups. Or facebook. Or twitter. Which I
>> wouldn't call outrageous.
> 
> Those are not comparable.  IMAP is a storage service, and groups,
> facebook, and twitter are publishing systems (ok, I've never understood
> quite what Google Wave is).  Yes, by definition, your voice mail
> provider (like IMAP) has to save recordings of messages people leave
> you, but that's a heck of a lot different than your phone carrier
> recording your real-time conversations.  Recording live phone
> conversations by a third party is called a "wiretap" and doing it
> without suitable authorization can get you in a heck of a lot of
> trouble.
> 
Unless you happen to be following the illegal instructions of the
President of the United States, in which case Congress will
retro-actively alter the law to void your offenses and provide you with
legal immunity for your wrong-doing. Assuming you are a large telephone
company and not a private individual.

>> This discussion moves away from the original question: is there
>> anything inherently less secure when using GET vs. POST. There isn't.
> 
> Well, the extra logging of GET parameters is not inherent to the
> protocol, but it's an accidental side effect that server ops may have to
> watch out for.
> 
>> Users can forge both kind of requests easy enough, whoever sits in the
>> middle can access both, 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Obviously if users want to record
> their own conversations, then I can't stop them, but that's much
> different than a non-participant in the conversation leaving a recorder
> running 24/7.  Is that so hard to understand?
> 
> Interception from the middle is addressed by SSL, though that relies on
> the PKI certificate infrastructure, which while somewhat dubious, is
> better than nothing.
> 
>> and it's at the discretion of the service provider to only save what
>> it needs to.  If you don't trust it, don't use it.
> 
> I certainly didn't feel that saving or not saving client conversations
> on the server side was up to my discretion.  When I found that the
> default server configuration caused conversations to be logged then I
> was appalled.
> 
> Do you think the phone company has the right to record all your phone
> calls if they feel like it (absent something like a law enforcement
> investigation)?  What about coffee shops that you visit with your
> friends?  It is not up to their discretion.  They have a positive
> obligation to not do it.  If you think they are doing it on purpose
> without your authorization, you should notify the FBI or your
> equivalent, not just "don't use it".  If they find they are doing it
> inadvertently, they have to take measures to make it stop.  That is the
> situation I found myself in, because of the difference in how servers
> treat GET vs.  POST.

A lot will depend on the terms of service of the network supply
contract. Most vendors take pains to ensure that such "innocent" logging
(i.e. the maintenance by their servers of logging information, which may
under subpoena or similar legal coercion be given up to law enforcement
authorities as "business records") is permitted. If you have signed the
contract, then they have the right to log that data.

Caveat emptor.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Feb  4 07:19:35 2010
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:19:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Common area of circles
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1c8224ad-58ac-4572-b182-ebfc545d5b8b@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Shashwat Anand:
> > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
> > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
> > area.

I can see two possible solutions, both approximate. In both solutions
you first look if there are a pair of circles that don't intersect, in
this case the intersect area is zero. You also remove all circles
fully contained in another circle.

The first strategy is easy to do, but it probably leads to a lower
precision. Then you can sample randomly many times the rectangular
area that surely contains all circles. You count how many of those
random points are inside all circles. This gives you an approximate
area of their intersection. Increasing the points numbers slowly
increases the result precision.

The second strategy is more complex. You convert your circles into
polygons with a fixed number of vertices (like 50 or 100 or 1000 or
more. This number is constant even if the circles don't have all the
same radius). So you can turn this circle into a simple mesh of
triangles (all vertices are on the circumference). Then you "subtract"
the second polygonalized circle, this can create a hole and split
triangles in pieces, and so on with successive circles. At the end you
can compute the total area of the triangles left. This is doable, but
you need time to do implement this. The advantage is that the
numerical precision of the result is probably higher. If you implement
this second solution you can implement the first one too, and use it
as a test to avoid bugs. Visualizing the triangles with Pygame or
MatPlotLib can be useful to look for bugs.

Bye,
bearophile


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:27:14 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:57:14 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <1c8224ad-58ac-4572-b182-ebfc545d5b8b@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1c8224ad-58ac-4572-b182-ebfc545d5b8b@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040427l332e370bl68e9da413a5b5a7e@mail.gmail.com>

I needed 6 decimal places of accuracy, so first way of solution will not
work for my case. However, your second strategy seems promising. Working on
it. Thanks :D
~l0nwlf

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Bearophile <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote:

> Shashwat Anand:
> > > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius
> of
> > > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of
> their
> > > area.
>
> I can see two possible solutions, both approximate. In both solutions
> you first look if there are a pair of circles that don't intersect, in
> this case the intersect area is zero. You also remove all circles
> fully contained in another circle.
>
> The first strategy is easy to do, but it probably leads to a lower
> precision. Then you can sample randomly many times the rectangular
> area that surely contains all circles. You count how many of those
> random points are inside all circles. This gives you an approximate
> area of their intersection. Increasing the points numbers slowly
> increases the result precision.
>
> The second strategy is more complex. You convert your circles into
> polygons with a fixed number of vertices (like 50 or 100 or 1000 or
> more. This number is constant even if the circles don't have all the
> same radius). So you can turn this circle into a simple mesh of
> triangles (all vertices are on the circumference). Then you "subtract"
> the second polygonalized circle, this can create a hole and split
> triangles in pieces, and so on with successive circles. At the end you
> can compute the total area of the triangles left. This is doable, but
> you need time to do implement this. The advantage is that the
> numerical precision of the result is probably higher. If you implement
> this second solution you can implement the first one too, and use it
> as a test to avoid bugs. Visualizing the triangles with Pygame or
> MatPlotLib can be useful to look for bugs.
>
> Bye,
> bearophile
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:28:20 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:28:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: read a process output with subprocess.Popen
Message-ID: <fe2fedf6-b1a9-497f-a174-b7479d7941fc@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I m trying a read the output of a process which is running
continuously with subprocess.Popen. However the readline() method
hangs for the process to finish. Please let me know if the following
code can be made to work with subprocess.Popen with threads or queues.
I tried a lot of methods but to no avail. It would be great if someone
can make it work.

import subprocess

p1 = subprocess.Popen('tail -f /var/log/
messages',stdout=subprocess.PIPE,shell=True)
p2 = subprocess.Popen('grep
something',stdin=p1.stdout,stdout=subprocess.PIPE,shell=True)

while 1:
    line = p2.stdout.readline()
    print line

Thanks,
~Ashok.


From mgedmin at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:28:29 2010
From: mgedmin at gmail.com (Marius Gedminas)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:28:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87wrytdirw.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <9e80909d-906c-466b-b9cb-77400a42ee7e@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 1:03?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > I can explain all of Python in an hour;
>
> OK, in that case I would say give it a go. Put it on YouTube, or write a
> blog post about it (or post it here). I am sure you will help a lot of
> people that way.

Someone already did: "Advanced Python or Understanding Python"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549
(76 minutes).

Worth watching.

Regards,
--
Marius Gedminas


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 07:31:01 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:31:01 -0500
Subject: Building a multiline string
In-Reply-To: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkeemg$vht$2@ger.gmane.org>

lallous wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Maybe that's already documented, but it seems the parser accepts to
> build a long string w/o really using the first method:
> 
> # Method1
> x = "line1" + \ # cannot use comments!
> "line2"+ \
> "line3"
> 
> and instead using a list with one element like this:
> 
> # Method2
> x = [
> "line1" # can use comments
> "line2"
> "line3"
> ][0]
> 
> Or:
> # Method3
> x = (
> "line1" # can use comments
> "line2"
> "line3"
> )
> 
> (Not that I don't want new lines in the strings)
> 
> Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?
> 
I should have thought it was pretty obvious that method 2 creates a list
and then performs an indexing operation on it. These are completely
unnecessary operations, which are avoided in method 3 which is a simple
parenthesised expression.

So why anyone would want to adopt method 2, which is also mess clear as
source code, is beyond me.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb  4 07:59:52 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:59:52 +0100
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>

MRAB wrote:
> In other words:
>
> for attempt in range(2):
>     try:
>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es', 
> lang_from='en')
>         break
>     except TranslationError:
>         pass
> else:
>     # Didn't break out of the loop, therefore not successful.
>     print "Translation failed"

What the hell is this 'for else' loop !! :D First time I see this 
statement for years.
I'd never thought I'd still learn something that basic.

My first impression is that the  mechansim is not that obvious. MRAB's 
need for a comment tends to confirm this.
I'll try to remember that anyway. Nice addition.

JM




From marco at sferacarta.com  Thu Feb  4 08:23:46 2010
From: marco at sferacarta.com (Marco Mariani)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:23:46 +0100
Subject: Building a multiline string
In-Reply-To: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CTzan.104948$813.39747@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

On 02/04/2010 12:34 PM, lallous wrote:

> Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?

Another way... depending on what you are using the string for, of
course. If it's an HTML/XML/SQL/whatever piece of code:

>>>> from textwrap import dedent
>>>> sql = dedent("""
> ...              SELECT *
> ...                FROM table
> ...               WHERE foo=bar
> ...              """)
>>>> 
>>>> print sql
> 
> SELECT *
>   FROM table
>  WHERE foo=bar
> 


And if you don't want the starting/ending newlines:

>>>> sql = dedent("""\
> ...              SELECT *
> ...                FROM table
> ...               WHERE foo=bar\
> ...              """)
>>>> 
>>>> print sql
> SELECT *
>   FROM table
>  WHERE foo=bar             
>>>> 

I use this sometimes to keep both python and the embedded code readable
while preserving indentation.




From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Feb  4 08:31:17 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:31:17 +1000
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040427l332e370bl68e9da413a5b5a7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1c8224ad-58ac-4572-b182-ebfc545d5b8b@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040427l332e370bl68e9da413a5b5a7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002040531g42d0ced3y220b0ff32e56a7f1@mail.gmail.com>

It's an interesting problem. Never thought it was this difficult. I can't
account for all geometrical enumerations, but assuming all 4 circles
intersect, here's the solution for this particular senario. It's probably
not going to be useful to you since you're working on geometrical
approximations now, but it is precise to the exact value.

I don't have it worked out here, but it goes like this.

1. Find the area covered by all 4 circles, unioned. Method here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1667310/combined-area-of-overlapping-circles

2: Follow this chart I made up:
http://xavierho.com/media/images/Misc/IntersectionOfFourCircles.png

And there you go. I'm sure there are way better, faster ways, and covers a
lot more senarios, but this is the best I can come up with, without counting
the rasterised pixels ratio =P.

I like Bearophile's solution. Have fun!

Cheers,
Xav

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:27 PM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> I needed 6 decimal places of accuracy, so first way of solution will not
> work for my case. However, your second strategy seems promising. Working on
> it. Thanks :D
> ~l0nwlf
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Bearophile <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com>wrote:
>
>> Shashwat Anand:
>> > > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius
>> of
>> > > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of
>> their
>> > > area.
>>
>> I can see two possible solutions, both approximate. In both solutions
>> you first look if there are a pair of circles that don't intersect, in
>> this case the intersect area is zero. You also remove all circles
>> fully contained in another circle.
>>
>> The first strategy is easy to do, but it probably leads to a lower
>> precision. Then you can sample randomly many times the rectangular
>> area that surely contains all circles. You count how many of those
>> random points are inside all circles. This gives you an approximate
>> area of their intersection. Increasing the points numbers slowly
>> increases the result precision.
>>
>> The second strategy is more complex. You convert your circles into
>> polygons with a fixed number of vertices (like 50 or 100 or 1000 or
>> more. This number is constant even if the circles don't have all the
>> same radius). So you can turn this circle into a simple mesh of
>> triangles (all vertices are on the circumference). Then you "subtract"
>> the second polygonalized circle, this can create a hole and split
>> triangles in pieces, and so on with successive circles. At the end you
>> can compute the total area of the triangles left. This is doable, but
>> you need time to do implement this. The advantage is that the
>> numerical precision of the result is probably higher. If you implement
>> this second solution you can implement the first one too, and use it
>> as a test to avoid bugs. Visualizing the triangles with Pygame or
>> MatPlotLib can be useful to look for bugs.
>>
>> Bye,
>> bearophile
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb  4 09:01:01 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:01:01 -0500
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> I want to calculate areas.
> like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
>
> similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
> calculate the area common to all.
> The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there
> any other approach possible.

There is a method for calculating the area of a polygon by traversing 
its boundary. I forget the formula, but you should be able to find it. 
So *if* you can find the arcs that bound the area, you can approximate 
each by a series of short lines and apply the polygon method.

Terry Jan Reedy



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 09:19:06 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:49:06 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>

thanks, all of you

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> I want to calculate areas.
>> like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
>>
>> similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
>> calculate the area common to all.
>> The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there
>> any other approach possible.
>>
>
> There is a method for calculating the area of a polygon by traversing its
> boundary. I forget the formula, but you should be able to find it. So *if*
> you can find the arcs that bound the area, you can approximate each by a
> series of short lines and apply the polygon method.
>
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb  4 09:57:59 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:57:59 -0500
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_ at castleamber.com>,
 John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:

> Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
> 
> > That's a pretty accurate description of how I transitioned to Python 
> > from C and Fortran.
> 
> Not C, but C++ (but there are also C implementations): YAML, see:
> http://code.google.com/p/yaml-cpp/wiki/HowToParseADocument
> 
> I use YAML now and then with Perl for both reading/writing data and for
> debugging purposes (YAML is quite human readable, for programmers at least)
> 
> Of course there is also YAML support for Python:
> http://pyyaml.org/.

Well, that looks a bit more complicated than I would like, but maybe 
it's doing more stuff than I can grok.  Here's what I needed and how I 
did it in Python:

# Make some variables
x=1.234e-8
y=2
astr="An output string...whatever"
z=4.5+1j*1.3456  # a complex number

# Output them to a file already opened as fp
outlist=[x, y, astr, z]
repvars= repr(outlist)+"\n"
fp.write(repvars)

# Reading same list in:
instr=fp.readline()
inlist=eval(instr)
x1,y1,astr1,z1= inlist


That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous 
collection of variables. I can add more variables, shuffle the order, 
whatever without messing with formatting, etc. That's pretty easy for me 
and it's easy for anyone to see and understand what's being done.  Not 
trying to start an argument, just showing how the former messasge I was 
replying to made a good point about Python's way of doing things and the 
effort to shake off old habits from other languages.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb  4 09:59:29 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:59:29 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<7x8wb9j4r2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-AAF4FB.09592904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <7x8wb9j4r2.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
> > after much noodling around and reading it hit me that I could just put
> > all that output of different types of variables into a list, hit it
> > with a repr() function to get a string version, and write the string
> > to a file -- no formatting necessary-- three lines of code. Later
> > reading in the string version (no formatting necessary), and hitting
> > it with an eval() function returned all the values I originally had in
> > those variables.  How simple, but beautiful.
> 
> FYI: I do that too sometimes, but in general using repr/eval that way
> is poor style and not very reliable.  It's better to use the pickle
> module, which is intended for that sort of thing, or the json module
> if your datatypes are suitable and you want to follow a semi-standard.

Yeah, I should look into pickle.  Haven't messed with that.  Most of 
what I do is numerical calculations for my consumption/research so quick 
and easy comes first.  Thanks for the hint.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From hidura at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 10:40:41 2010
From: hidura at gmail.com (Hidura)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:40:41 -0400
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
In-Reply-To: <op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <4bbf7fb21002040740x66f203c7x57099d07de1fe30@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I read it and try to put my code in the correct form, but now give
me another error, inside the Writer Package says:
"ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package", if somebody knows a
clue of how fix it i will glad to read opinions. [?]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:11 AM, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>wrote:

> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:00:56 -0300, Hidura <hidura at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>  Good evening list, I have a really big trouble with the imports in the 3.1
>> version(Notes: In the older 2.64 theres no problems), I have two packages,
>> the first package Utilities who contains Writer the second package,
>> Writers
>> contain the module tagmanip(What is imported in the best way inside the
>> __init__.py of the Writer), when i make  the import inside the writer
>> everything is ok, but from the Utilities package the errors says:
>> "ImportError: No module named tagsmanip".
>> I don't understand why this is happening, if somebody could help me i will
>> glad to hear any suggestion.
>>
>
> In Python 3.x, "absolute" import is enabled by default (2.6 uses a mix of
> relative and absolute imports).
> To import sibling modules in a package, or modules in a subpackage, you
> have to use relative imports:
>
> from . import tagmanip
> from .Writers import tagmanip
>
> See PEP328 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Hidura
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From grflanagan at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 11:29:25 2010
From: grflanagan at gmail.com (Gerard Flanagan)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:29:25 +0000
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkesl4$s9n$1@ger.gmane.org>


>     On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> 
>         I want to calculate areas.
>         like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
> 
>         similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
>         calculate the area common to all.
>         The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is
>         there
>         any other approach possible.
> 
> 

A brute force approach - create a grid of small squares and calculate 
which squares are in all circles. I don't know whether it is any better 
than monte-carlo: for two circles, delta=0.001 takes about a minute and 
delta=0.0001 is still running after 30 minutes :-)

1.22
1.2281
1.22834799999


------------------------------------------------------------------
import math

class Circle:

     def __init__(self, x, y, r=1):
         self.x = float(x)
         self.y = float(y)
         self.r = float(r)

     def contains(self, a, b):
         return math.sqrt((self.x-a)**2 + (self.y-b)**2) <= self.r

class Grid:

     def __init__(self, circles):
         self.X1 = min(c.x-c.r for c in circles)
         self.Y1 = max(c.y+c.r for c in circles)
         self.X2 = max(c.x+c.r for c in circles)
         self.Y2 = min(c.y-c.r for c in circles)
         self.circles = circles

     def iter_boxes(self, delta):
         X2 = self.X2
         Y2 = self.Y2
         a = self.X1
         while a < X2:
             a += delta
             b = self.Y1
             while b > Y2:
                 b -= delta
                 #print a, b
                 yield a, b

     def intersection(self, delta=0.1):
         S = 0
         s = delta**2 #box area
         circles = self.circles
         for a, b in self.iter_boxes(delta):
             if all(c.contains(a, b) for c in circles):
                 S += s
         return S


c = Circle(0, 1)

assert c.contains(0, 1)
assert c.contains(0, 1.5)
assert c.contains(math.sqrt(2)/2, math.sqrt(2)/2)
assert c.contains(0, 2)
assert not c.contains(0, 2.01)
assert not c.contains(0, 2.1)
assert not c.contains(0, 3)

circles = [
         Circle(0, 0),
         Circle(0, 1),
]

g = Grid(circles)

print '-'*30
print g.intersection()
print g.intersection(0.01)
print g.intersection(0.001)
print g.intersection(0.0001)

------------------------------------------------------------------



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb  4 11:36:09 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:36:09 +0000
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AF779.8010609@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>> In other words:
>>
>> for attempt in range(2):
>>     try:
>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es', 
>> lang_from='en')
>>         break
>>     except TranslationError:
>>         pass
>> else:
>>     # Didn't break out of the loop, therefore not successful.
>>     print "Translation failed"
> 
> What the hell is this 'for else' loop !! :D First time I see this 
> statement for years.
> I'd never thought I'd still learn something that basic.
> 
> My first impression is that the  mechansim is not that obvious. MRAB's 
> need for a comment tends to confirm this.
> I'll try to remember that anyway. Nice addition.
> 
The comment is there for the OP. _I_ don't need it! :-)


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 11:38:37 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:38:37 -0800
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com> 
	<4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002040838g5fed0fb1leffbe227c42119b8@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant <
jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> What the hell is this 'for else' loop !! :D First time I see this statement
> for years.
> I'd never thought I'd still learn something that basic.
>

Its one of the least used constructs in Python, I think, and leads to
periodic statements like this on the list where people who think they know
all about Python suddenly see it and go WTF :)

But in Python, all loops have an "else" clause that is fired when the loop
terminates-- but *only* if it terminates normally, where 'normally' is
basically, 'if you don't use break to exit the loop prematurely'.

It allows you to do certain things in a way which is (arguably, and I so
don't want to start an argument about this) a bit cleaner, where the normal
method would require a flag or some such. For example, if you need want to
loop over a sequence to test to see if they all match some criteria, you can
use a for..else, or some flag variable.


--S
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From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Feb  4 11:46:27 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:46:27 -0800
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <hkesl4$s9n$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>	<hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>	<d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkesl4$s9n$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6AF9E3.6020403@islandtraining.com>

Gerard Flanagan wrote:
>
>>     On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>
>>         I want to calculate areas.
>>         like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is 
>> '1.228370'
>>
>>         similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius 
>> '1' and
>>         calculate the area common to all.
>>         The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is
>>         there
>>         any other approach possible.
>>
>>
>
> A brute force approach - create a grid of small squares and calculate 
> which squares are in all circles. I don't know whether it is any 
> better than monte-carlo: 

That's just what the monte-carlo method is -- except the full family of 
monte-carlo methods can be quite sophisticated, including being more 
general (pseudo or quasi random points instead of a regular grid) and 
can provide a theoretical basis for calculating the rate of convergence, 
and so on.

Gary Herron



> for two circles, delta=0.001 takes about a minute and delta=0.0001 is 
> still running after 30 minutes :-)
>
> 1.22
> 1.2281
> 1.22834799999
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> import math
>
> class Circle:
>
>     def __init__(self, x, y, r=1):
>         self.x = float(x)
>         self.y = float(y)
>         self.r = float(r)
>
>     def contains(self, a, b):
>         return math.sqrt((self.x-a)**2 + (self.y-b)**2) <= self.r
>
> class Grid:
>
>     def __init__(self, circles):
>         self.X1 = min(c.x-c.r for c in circles)
>         self.Y1 = max(c.y+c.r for c in circles)
>         self.X2 = max(c.x+c.r for c in circles)
>         self.Y2 = min(c.y-c.r for c in circles)
>         self.circles = circles
>
>     def iter_boxes(self, delta):
>         X2 = self.X2
>         Y2 = self.Y2
>         a = self.X1
>         while a < X2:
>             a += delta
>             b = self.Y1
>             while b > Y2:
>                 b -= delta
>                 #print a, b
>                 yield a, b
>
>     def intersection(self, delta=0.1):
>         S = 0
>         s = delta**2 #box area
>         circles = self.circles
>         for a, b in self.iter_boxes(delta):
>             if all(c.contains(a, b) for c in circles):
>                 S += s
>         return S
>
>
> c = Circle(0, 1)
>
> assert c.contains(0, 1)
> assert c.contains(0, 1.5)
> assert c.contains(math.sqrt(2)/2, math.sqrt(2)/2)
> assert c.contains(0, 2)
> assert not c.contains(0, 2.01)
> assert not c.contains(0, 2.1)
> assert not c.contains(0, 3)
>
> circles = [
>         Circle(0, 0),
>         Circle(0, 1),
> ]
>
> g = Grid(circles)
>
> print '-'*30
> print g.intersection()
> print g.intersection(0.01)
> print g.intersection(0.001)
> print g.intersection(0.0001)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>



From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Feb  4 11:46:47 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:46:47 +0000
Subject: Refreshing of urllib.urlopen()
References: <mailman.1879.1265255007.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.04.16.46.46.906000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:33:08 -0600, Michael Gruenstaeudl wrote:

> I am fairly new to Python and need advice on the urllib.urlopen()  
> function. The website I am trying to open automatically refreshes  
> after 5 seconds and remains stable thereafter. With  
> urllib.urlopen().read() I can only read the initial but not the  
> refreshed page. How can I access the refreshed page via  
> urlopen().read()? I have already tried to intermediate with  
> time.sleep() before invoking .read() (see below), but this does not  
> work.

In all probability, the server is instructing the browser to load a
different URL via either a Refresh: header or a <meta http-equiv="refresh">
tag in the page. You will have to retrieve that information then issue a
request for the new URL.

It might even be redirecting via JavaScript, in which case, you lose (it's
possible to handle this case, but it's difficult).



From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Feb  4 12:02:23 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:02:23 +0000
Subject: read a process output with subprocess.Popen
References: <fe2fedf6-b1a9-497f-a174-b7479d7941fc@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.04.17.02.22.188000@nowhere.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:28:20 -0800, Ashok Prabhu wrote:

> I m trying a read the output of a process which is running
> continuously with subprocess.Popen. However the readline() method
> hangs for the process to finish. Please let me know if the following
> code can be made to work with subprocess.Popen with threads or queues.
> I tried a lot of methods but to no avail. It would be great if someone
> can make it work.

This is an issue with grep, not Python per se.

By default, stdout (in the C library) is line-buffered if it refers to a
TTY, and block-buffered otherwise (e.g. if it refers to a pipe). grep
doesn't change the default buffering, so when it's stdout is a pipe, its
output is written in 4K blocks.

If you only need this to work with GNU grep, you can use the
--line-buffered switch to force stdout to be flushed after each line.

If it needs to be portable, you can implement the grep part in Python
(i.e. read p1.stdout and ignore any lines which don't contain a given
string or which don't match a given regex).



From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 12:22:27 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:22:27 -0600
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com> <7svh39F8vvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87636c531o.fsf@castleamber.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:

> Am 04.02.10 01:42, schrieb John Bokma:

[..]

>> Maybe you should think about what happens if someone posts:
>> <img src="http://example.com/item_delete?id=123">  to a popular forum...
>
> And the difference to posting
>
> from urrlib2 import open
> from urllib import encode
>
> open("http://example.com/item_delete", data=encode([("id", "123")]))
>
> to that same public "hacker" forum is exactly what?

Imagine that a user of example.com, logged in at example.com (i.e. with
a valid session ID in a cookie), visits the aforementioned (by me)
forum, and that he has an item 123. It will be deleted.

> If your webapp happens to allow item_delete to be called without
> authentication & authorization, then *that's* your problem.

You now understand that *with* a & a a GET request can be *still* harmful?

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From grflanagan at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 12:24:37 2010
From: grflanagan at gmail.com (Gerard Flanagan)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:24:37 +0000
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <4B6AF9E3.6020403@islandtraining.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>	<hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>	<d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>	<hkesl4$s9n$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6AF9E3.6020403@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <hkevsk$9gp$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gary Herron wrote:
> Gerard Flanagan wrote:
>>
>> A brute force approach - create a grid of small squares and calculate 
>> which squares are in all circles. I don't know whether it is any 
>> better than monte-carlo: 
> 
> That's just what the monte-carlo method is -- except the full family of 
> monte-carlo methods can be quite sophisticated, including being more 
> general (pseudo or quasi random points instead of a regular grid) and 
> can provide a theoretical basis for calculating the rate of convergence, 
> and so on.
> 

I would have said a Monte Carlo method necessarily involves random 
sampling in some shape or form, no? (Casinos, Chance etc..) And as I've 
previously understood Monte Carlo Integration, the technique involves 
rather the ratio "hits/total sample" rather than the sum of small areas. 
That's how I remember it, at least - it's been a while though.

Regards

G.F



From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 12:26:26 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:26:26 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87wrytdirw.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<9e80909d-906c-466b-b9cb-77400a42ee7e@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y6j83oal.fsf@castleamber.com>

Marius Gedminas <mgedmin at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 4, 1:03?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> > I can explain all of Python in an hour;
>>
>> OK, in that case I would say give it a go. Put it on YouTube, or write a
>> blog post about it (or post it here). I am sure you will help a lot of
>> people that way.
>
> Someone already did: "Advanced Python or Understanding Python"
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549
> (76 minutes).
>
> Worth watching.

Thanks, I will. And let you know if it succeeds at "explain all of
Python in 76 minutes". It's not a fair test, since I am not new to
Python, but let me see first ;-)

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Feb  4 12:27:16 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:27:16 -0500
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B0374.8060400@ieee.org>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> I want to calculate areas.
> like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
>
> similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
> calculate the area common to all.
> The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there any
> other approach possible.
>
>   
>
You start with a list of circles, each having center (a,b), and radius 
(r).  As you stated the problem, r is always 1, but I'll keep the 
algorithm general.

This is untested, and probably contains typos, at least.

I would do it with successively smaller squares.  A square can be 
described using center coordinates (x,y) , and length (s) of a side.  
Each square can have three states:  not included, partially included, 
and fully included. 

You build a list of squares, starting with one, the bounding square for 
the first circle.

For each square in the list, you go through all the circles (each with 
center a,b, and radius r), and for each circle decide if the square is 
entirely within the circle, or partially.  If it's fully included in all 
of them, you add its area to the the accumulator, and drop it from your 
list.   if it's not included at all in one of them, you just drop it 
from the list.  (Note, be careful about modifying a list you're 
iterating through -- make a copy)

After a pass through the list,  the accumulator is a lower-bound for the 
area, and the accumulator plus the areas of all the squares is an upper 
bound.   If these are close enough together, you terminate.

Otherwise you take the remaining squares in the list, split each into 
four pieces, and end up with a list 4 times as long.  And repeat the 
loop, checking each square against each circle.


The only remaining question is how you decide for a given circle and a 
given square which of the three states it's in.  And it turns out you 
can be pretty approximate in this, and it'll still converge.  So you can 
take a distance between (a,b) and (x,y), and compare it to r-s/2  and to 
r+(s*0.707106781187).  If it's greater than r+s*0.707106781187, no 
intersection.  If it's less than r-s/2, then the square's entirely inside.

Note that I used  0.707106781187 above, but you'd actually use sqr(0.5) 
to whatever precision you needed.  And if it's convenient to round it, 
round it upwards;  again it won't affect the result.  I doubt if it 
would matter in Python code, but you could even do the whole thing in 
integers (avoiding the sqrt for distance calc), if you were careful 
about the bounding formulas.  That's premature optimization, however.

HTH,
DaveA





From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 12:49:21 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:49:21 -0600
Subject: YAML
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <87tytw3n8e.fsf@castleamber.com>

Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:

> In article <87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_ at castleamber.com>,
>  John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>> Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
>> 
>> > That's a pretty accurate description of how I transitioned to Python 
>> > from C and Fortran.
>> 
>> Not C, but C++ (but there are also C implementations): YAML, see:
>> http://code.google.com/p/yaml-cpp/wiki/HowToParseADocument
>> 
>> I use YAML now and then with Perl for both reading/writing data and for
>> debugging purposes (YAML is quite human readable, for programmers at least)
>> 
>> Of course there is also YAML support for Python:
>> http://pyyaml.org/.
>
> Well, that looks a bit more complicated than I would like, but maybe 
> it's doing more stuff than I can grok.  Here's what I needed and how I 
> did it in Python:
>
> # Make some variables
> x=1.234e-8
> y=2
> astr="An output string...whatever"
> z=4.5+1j*1.3456  # a complex number
>
> # Output them to a file already opened as fp
> outlist=[x, y, astr, z]
> repvars= repr(outlist)+"\n"
> fp.write(repvars)
>
> # Reading same list in:
> instr=fp.readline()
> inlist=eval(instr)
> x1,y1,astr1,z1= inlist
>
>
> That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous 
> collection of variables. I can add more variables, shuffle the order, 
> whatever without messing with formatting, etc. That's pretty easy for me 
> and it's easy for anyone to see and understand what's being done.  Not 
> trying to start an argument, just showing how the former messasge I was 
> replying to made a good point about Python's way of doing things and the 
> effort to shake off old habits from other languages.

My C++ is rusty to say the least, so I can't give you an example in C++,
and the C++ version will be longer than the Python version for
sure. I use YAML, YAML::Syck to be precise, now and then in Perl. In
Perl, if $data is a reference to an arbitrary (complex) datastructure:

DumpFile( 'filename', $data ); 

writes it out and

$data = LoadFile( 'filename' );

reads it back in.

Since YAML is to some extent human readable, I now and then use it for
debugging purposes over Data::Dumper, also because the output is more
compact, e.g.

die Dump $data;

Personally I think it's good to be aware of YAML, since it's supported
by several languages and it should in general be possible to exchange
the generated YAML between them. 

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 13:07:39 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:07:39 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <87636c531o.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7svh39F8vvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <87636c531o.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <7t0gndFu21U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 18:22, schrieb John Bokma:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>
>> Am 04.02.10 01:42, schrieb John Bokma:
>
> [..]
>
>>> Maybe you should think about what happens if someone posts:
>>> <img src="http://example.com/item_delete?id=123">   to a popular forum...
>>
>> And the difference to posting
>>
>> from urrlib2 import open
>> from urllib import encode
>>
>> open("http://example.com/item_delete", data=encode([("id", "123")]))
>>
>> to that same public "hacker" forum is exactly what?
>
> Imagine that a user of example.com, logged in at example.com (i.e. with
> a valid session ID in a cookie), visits the aforementioned (by me)
> forum, and that he has an item 123. It will be deleted.

The webapp must be actually preventing the processing of GET-requests 
for the aciton in question. This isn't the case by default for many of 
them, in fact at least e.g. TurboGears, as well as PHP offer you ways to 
treat GET and POSTvars the exact same way. So unless the programmer is 
aware of this potential problem, it won't help.

And in the same way one can embed a form with a post-action that leads 
to the full http://example.com-url into an external page. So it is 
equally as dangerous. Yes, links are easier, no doubt about that. But 
POST doesn't magically make you safe from those kinds of attacks.

The only way to prevent this are short-lived sessions, or action-tokens 
of some kind, as Paul mentioned before.

Diez


From python at rcn.com  Thu Feb  4 13:18:23 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:18:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
References: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hkd83f$dc2$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <63678d2b-2571-42fb-aa9b-90737cea561e@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

> >For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team,
> >http://saucelabs.com/about/team, is hosting two free tutorial open
> >space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.

[Aahz]
> Congrats on the new job!

Thanks.  I'm really enjoying working with Jim Baker
and Frank Wierzbicki.


Raymond



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb  4 13:23:35 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 4 Feb 2010 18:23:35 GMT
Subject: Building a multiline string
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D15BB1829C71duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

lallous <lallous at lgwm.org> wrote:

> Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?

Also Method1a:

# Method1a
x = ("line1" + # can use comments!
     "line2"+
     "line3")

Use Method1a or Method3 as you prefer: either of these generates a single 
string constant. Method2 is dumb.


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 13:55:14 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:55:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Common area of circles
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1906.1265292092.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e67c2fa7-de21-486b-9a29-02538cfbbc32@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> I want to calculate areas.
> like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
>
> similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
> calculate the area common to all.
> The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there
> any other approach possible.

How much accuracy do you need?  How fast does the algorithm need to
be?  How many circles are typically involved?  Is the intersection
necessarily non-empty for the configurations of circles that you use?
How much code are you prepared to write?  How much mathematics do you
want to use?

Besides the Monte-Carlo and grid-based approaches already mentioned, I
see a couple of other possibilities:

(1) It should be entirely possible to do this analytically.  The hard
part would be identifying the intersection points that form the
vertices of the intersection (and especially, doing this robustly in
the face of numerical errors and triple intersections or near-triple
intersections).  Once you've got the vertices, it should be
straightforward to compute the area:  compute the area of the polygon
given by the convex hull of the vertices, then add on the extra areas
for the segments bounded by the (straight) sides of the polygon and
the corresponding outer arcs.

(2) For a numerical approach that might be slightly better than the 2d
brute-force approaches described by others:  make use of the fact that
the intersection is convex.  Pick a point P in the intersection (if it
exists:  finding such a point is an issue in itself).  For each angle
t, 0 <= t <= 2*pi, define f(t) to be the distance from P to the
boundary of the region, in the direction of the angle t.  We always
have 0 <= f(t) <= 1, so f(t) can be quickly and accurately computed
with a bisection search.  Now find the definite integral of 0.5 *
(f(t))**2, as t goes from 0 to 2*pi, using your favourite quadrature
method (but avoid methods that would be very sensitive to continuity
of derivatives:  f(t) will be continuous, but f'(t) will not).
Simpson's rule is probably good enough.

Good luck!

--
Mark


From tompelka at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 14:05:51 2010
From: tompelka at gmail.com (Tomas Pelka)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:05:51 +0100
Subject: how to run part of my python code as root
Message-ID: <4B6B1A8F.1000504@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hey,

is there possibility how to run part of my code (function for example)
as superuser.

Or only way how to do this is create a wrapper and run is with Popen
through sudo (but I have to configure sudo to run "whole" python as root).

Thanks for advice.

- --
Tom

Key fingerprint = 06C0 23C6 9EB7 0761 9807  65F4 7F6F 7EAB 496B 28AA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAktrGoYACgkQf29+q0lrKKqaNACdEvfg+g0n3DzFr/7R33y2Nesy
hK8An3ZlpUEEibf0Q1wVET/KpXnsv/PO
=JKro
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 14:19:59 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 00:49:59 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <e67c2fa7-de21-486b-9a29-02538cfbbc32@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1906.1265292092.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<e67c2fa7-de21-486b-9a29-02538cfbbc32@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002041119r4c1a57bam80d0ef6a09e23f15@mail.gmail.com>

maximum number of circles = 10**6
runtime <= 5 sec
center of circles , -1000<=xi,yi<=1000 (float) [for int it was easier]
intersection is there and the area will be non-zero (it can always be
checked if intersection is taking place and if no, then area = 0.000000)
This was a programming contest problem, so code will be short
Maths, I'm eager to use. I attempted this problem because I saw scope of
maths in it. (I learnt python while doing ProjectEuler because C/C++ was
cumbersome for PE IMHO). I tried monte-carlo, but the time-limit exceeds if
i go for required accuracy. The same happens with grid approach.


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Mark Dickinson <dickinsm at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> > I want to calculate areas.
> > like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
> >
> > similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
> > calculate the area common to all.
> > The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there
> > any other approach possible.
>
> How much accuracy do you need?  How fast does the algorithm need to
> be?  How many circles are typically involved?  Is the intersection
> necessarily non-empty for the configurations of circles that you use?
> How much code are you prepared to write?  How much mathematics do you
> want to use?
>
> Besides the Monte-Carlo and grid-based approaches already mentioned, I
> see a couple of other possibilities:
>
> (1) It should be entirely possible to do this analytically.  The hard
> part would be identifying the intersection points that form the
> vertices of the intersection (and especially, doing this robustly in
> the face of numerical errors and triple intersections or near-triple
> intersections).  Once you've got the vertices, it should be
> straightforward to compute the area:  compute the area of the polygon
> given by the convex hull of the vertices, then add on the extra areas
> for the segments bounded by the (straight) sides of the polygon and
> the corresponding outer arcs.
>
> (2) For a numerical approach that might be slightly better than the 2d
> brute-force approaches described by others:  make use of the fact that
> the intersection is convex.  Pick a point P in the intersection (if it
> exists:  finding such a point is an issue in itself).  For each angle
> t, 0 <= t <= 2*pi, define f(t) to be the distance from P to the
> boundary of the region, in the direction of the angle t.  We always
> have 0 <= f(t) <= 1, so f(t) can be quickly and accurately computed
> with a bisection search.  Now find the definite integral of 0.5 *
> (f(t))**2, as t goes from 0 to 2*pi, using your favourite quadrature
> method (but avoid methods that would be very sensitive to continuity
> of derivatives:  f(t) will be continuous, but f'(t) will not).
> Simpson's rule is probably good enough.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --
> Mark
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 14:21:30 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:21:30 -0300
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<4bbf7fb21002040740x66f203c7x57099d07de1fe30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7map4e8x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:40:41 -0300, Hidura <hidura at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Thanks, I read it and try to put my code in the correct form, but now  
> give
> me another error, inside the Writer Package says:
> "ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package", if somebody  
> knows a
> clue of how fix it i will glad to read opinions. [?]

You say that Writer is a package, but apparently Python disagrees. A  
package is not just "a directory containing an __init__.py file", this is  
half the truth. Python must be *aware* of such file, and this happens when  
you import the package.

If you directly run a script from inside a package, Python does not know  
that it belongs to a package, and treats it as a simple, lonely script. In  
that case, relative imports won't work.

Put the "main" script (the one that you directly execute) outside the  
package. It can be as small as this, if you want:

 from some.package import main
main()

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 14:48:35 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:48:35 -0800
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
References: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hkd83f$dc2$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xwryssrxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> Raymond Hettinger  <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>>For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team,
>>http://saucelabs.com/about/team, is hosting two free tutorial open
>>space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.
>
> Congrats on the new job!

Yes, cool!  I don't recognize several of these logos, but maybe Sauce
can help:

    http://aasi.ebm.fi/5742/browsers.jpg

;-)


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 14:56:57 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:56:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to run part of my python code as root
References: <mailman.1917.1265310357.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a79c4871-efcc-47d0-bcb9-96e97e1d03c4@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 2:05?pm, Tomas Pelka <tompe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hey,
>
> is there possibility how to run part of my code (function for example)
> as superuser.
>
> Or only way how to do this is create a wrapper and run is with Popen
> through sudo (but I have to configure sudo to run "whole" python as root).

In decreasing order of desirability:
1. Find a way to not need root access (e.g. grant another user or
group access to whatever resource you're trying to access).
2. Isolate the stuff that needs root access into a small helper
program that does strict validation of all input (including arguments,
environment, etc); when needed, run that process under sudo or
similar.
2a. Have some sort of well-verified helper daemon that has access to
the resource you need and mediates use of that resource.
3. Run the process as root, using seteuid() to switch between user and
root privs.  The entire program must be heavily verified and do strict
validation of all inputs.  Any attacker who gets control over the
process can easily switch to root privs and do damage.  This is
generally a bad idea.


From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 15:15:05 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:15:05 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87wrytdirw.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<9e80909d-906c-466b-b9cb-77400a42ee7e@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87bpg4ahbq.fsf@castleamber.com>

Marius Gedminas <mgedmin at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 4, 1:03?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> > I can explain all of Python in an hour;
>>
>> OK, in that case I would say give it a go. Put it on YouTube, or write a
>> blog post about it (or post it here). I am sure you will help a lot of
>> people that way.
>
> Someone already did: "Advanced Python or Understanding Python"
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549
> (76 minutes).
>
> Worth watching.

Certainly worth watching (I learned some stuff), but in my opinion you
/need to have some Python experience/ to be able to follow so no
(IMO), someone didn't do it already.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb  4 15:50:29 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:50:29 +1300
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1888.1265264851.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkfbul$3g5$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> But the associated program might change the current directory - that's 
> not the case with the default associations created by the Python 
> installer, but one should verify this.
> To the OP: please create this small test script
> 
> import os
> print("curdir=", os.getcwd())
> print("__file__=", __file__)
> input()
> 
> and post what you get when you double-click on it.
> 
> Also, from the command line, execute:
> 
> D:\temp>reg query HKCR\.py
> 
> ! REG.EXE VERSION 3.0
> 
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py
>     <Sin nombre>        REG_SZ  Python.File
>     Content Type        REG_SZ  text/plain
> 
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py\PersistentHandler

I'm interested in this, because I'm using Windows XP, and when I execute this 
command I see the first part but not the second (with PersistentHandler).  Is 
this related to the fact that when I double-click on a .py file the command 
window disappears after the execution is completed?


From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Feb  4 15:55:21 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:55:21 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
Message-ID: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>

Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.

 

--
Alan


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb  4 15:55:44 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:55:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 3:39?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
> > On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>
> >> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
> >> all of Python in an hour.
>
> > With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable chance of
> > your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
> > It's just exposition.
>
> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't explained it.
>

On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
than that time to truly understand everything that was said.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb  4 16:03:06 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Feb 2010 21:03:06 GMT
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:57:59 -0500, Lou Pecora wrote:

> Well, that looks a bit more complicated than I would like, but maybe
> it's doing more stuff than I can grok.  Here's what I needed and how I
> did it in Python:
[...]
> # Reading same list in:
> instr=fp.readline()
> inlist=eval(instr)
> x1,y1,astr1,z1= inlist
> 
> 
> That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous
> collection of variables. 

Easy, but also quick and dirty -- good enough for small scripts, but not 
really good enough for production applications.


> I can add more variables, shuffle the order,
> whatever without messing with formatting, etc. 

This is nice and easy. But there are at least four catches:


* you can't safely treat the data file as human-editable
(although a sufficiently careful and Python-aware user could edit it)

* you can't use any data that isn't a built-in, or that contains 
something that is not a built-in

* there may be reliability issues with floats - you're at the mercy of 
changes to the underlying repr of float objects, and it almost certainly 
will blow up in your face if you get an inf or nan (at least prior to 
Python 2.6)

* you're using eval, which is a security risk if you can't trust the 
source of the data file.

However, be aware that neither marshal nor pickle guarantees to be safe 
against malicious data either. The docs for both warn against using them 
on untrusted data. YAML or JSON *might* be safer, I haven't looked.



> That's pretty easy for me
> and it's easy for anyone to see and understand what's being done.  Not
> trying to start an argument, just showing how the former messasge I was
> replying to made a good point about Python's way of doing things and the
> effort to shake off old habits from other languages.

These are all good points. 




-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb  4 16:14:33 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:14:33 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.

I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window.
Set sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__'
In 3.1 idle shell:

 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.argv
['']
 >>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
 >>> sys.argv
['abc', 'dev']

I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.

Terry Jan Reedy



From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 16:18:53 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:18:53 -0600
Subject: YAML
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <877hqsaede.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> However, be aware that neither marshal nor pickle guarantees to be safe 
> against malicious data either. The docs for both warn against using them 
> on untrusted data. YAML or JSON *might* be safer, I haven't looked.

Regarding malicious data, from the Loading YAML section of PyYAML:

   Warning: It is not safe to call yaml.load with any data received from
   an untrusted source! yaml.load is as powerful as pickle.load and so
   may call any Python function. Check the yaml.safe_load function
   though.

http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAMLDocumentation#LoadingYAML

yaml.safe_load however, limits to simple Python objects and Python
objects you mark as safe.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 16:28:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkfe63$1du$1@ger.gmane.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
> 
> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window.
> Set sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__'
> In 3.1 idle shell:
> 
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.argv
> ['']
>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>> sys.argv
> ['abc', 'dev']
> 
> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
> 
As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Feb  4 16:37:10 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:37:10 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1920.1265318105.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qefmm51d3m6k1fa39vs85kkroubfls3oic@4ax.com>

Yes, that is what I was trying to do.  I need to puzzle a bit on the
solution, being a newbie.  Thanks!

--
Alan


From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Feb  4 16:47:09 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:47:09 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1920.1265318105.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qefmm51d3m6k1fa39vs85kkroubfls3oic@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7rfmm5h99dsfico46fnbrkjbouujli49a7@4ax.com>

Terry,

CLICK, the light just came on.  Knowing that it is writable, I can
look at the length to determine whether there are any arguments.  If
not, I can switch to interactive input within the program, and input
the values that way.  A few easy extra lines.   Whatever works.
Thanks!!

--
Alan


From xahlee at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:26:02 2010
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:26:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

2010-02-04

Hi Steve,

thank you for the reply.

I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
made is all i asked for.

I have a lot things to say about the various political struggle that
one sees everyday in just about every communication channels that are
predominantly young male groups, of relatively few people, in online
posting forums, ircs, online massive multiplayer games... as you may
know, the quarrels, accusations, bans, happen every hour.

But to be concrete and constructive, i would suggest that in
freenode's python irc channel:

? when a admin bans someone, the admin needs to tell the person the
reason, and not in some rude way. (a single sentence will do.)

? The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
e.g. ?repeatedly asking same question?, ?continously raising
controversial issues?, ?refused to use paste bin when requested? will
do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
?ban'd for trolling?, ?annoying others?, are not a meaningful reason.)

? additionally, i would suggest that bans be temporary. The following
period seems a good start: 5 min ban, 1 hour ban, 1 day ban, 1 week
ban, 1 month ban. Each can be executed according to severity per the
admin's judgement. There should be no permanent ban, unless it's
machine generated commercial spam.

Thank you.

For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
be found on my website, search for ?ban xah lee?.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


On Feb 2, 2:23?pm, "Steve Holden, Chairman, PSF" <chair... at python.org>
wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> > This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
> > freenode.net.
>
> > Here's a log:
>
> > 2010-02-02
>
> > (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL |http://pound-python.org/
> > | It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
> >http://paste.pocoo.org/| Tutorial:http://docs.python.org/tut/| FAQ:
> >http://effbot.org/pyfaq/| New Programmer? Readhttp://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
> > | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
> > #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
> > offtopic
> > (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
> > actually.
> > (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
> > (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
> > (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
> > (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
> > etc) right is quite tricky
> > (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
> > wondering whats up with the python verison :D
> > (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
> > (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)
>
> > ---------------
>
> > I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
> > 2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
> > freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.
>
> > ? Xah
> > ?http://xahlee.org/
>
> > ?
>
> Frankly, Xah Lee, I find it ironic that you see fit to complain about
> abuse of the IRC channel when you have apparently felt free to ignore
> the many complaints about your behavior on this and other newsgroups
> over many years.
>
> "As ye sew, so shall ye reap". I imagine that your reputation has
> preceded you, and that dash (whom I *do* know) is simply looking to keep
> a well-known nuisance from bothering the rest of the users on the channel.
>
> For the present my sympathies are all with him. The PSF will, however,
> investigate this issue and I will report back to you off-list in due course.
>
> regards
> ?Steve
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ?Chairman, Python Software Foundation
> The Python Community Conference ?http://python.org/psf/
> PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21 ? ? ? ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Watch PyCon on video now! ? ? ? ? ?http://pycon.blip.tv/


From news123 at free.fr  Thu Feb  4 17:34:20 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:34:20 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
Message-ID: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6

srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')

I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second


After changing to
srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')

I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.

So it seems, that under windows 7 the host name lookup occurs for every
RPC call (which is of course necessary for long running processes, as
the target host might change it's ip during the scripts execution)

For my use cases however I could live with one IP-address lookup at the
beginning of the script.


I wonder now about how I could deal with virtual web servers.

( a web server running with one ip-adress and one port, which behaves
differntly depending on the host name of the url request)

I'm just curious, as currently I don't have to access virtual servers
via xmlrpc,

Is there any way to 'pre-lookup the IP address', and to keep the host
name in the http POST request?


thanks for any ideas



N







From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Feb  4 17:47:21 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:47:21 +1100
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<4bbf7fb21002040740x66f203c7x57099d07de1fe30@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1919.1265311302.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871vh0mxdy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

> If you directly run a script from inside a package, Python does not
> know that it belongs to a package, and treats it as a simple, lonely
> script. In that case, relative imports won't work.

Which I consider to be a bug. Fortunately, it's already addressed in PEP
366 <URL:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0366/>. Unfortunately, it
involves more hackish boilerplate at the top of the program, and is only
available in Python 2.6+.

-- 
 \              ?Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does |
  `\           knowledge.? ?Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Thu Feb  4 17:52:03 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:52:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Background Zones in Pylab Plot
References: <1eaf6046-db41-44b5-8c9e-b7a15e4cf078@30g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9e5eaf-2006-4dfe-8498-a544c09a8584@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <de9a63f9-6f0d-4569-b3d2-fc7d5d1bb003@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:50?pm, CM <cmpyt... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:49?am, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
>
> > I would like to add background zones in pylab plots. Colored sections
> > of the background that the curves pass through. Is this possible? My
> > google searches don't turn up anything but maybe my search terms
> > aren't the right ones.
>
> > Thanks
>
> If you look at the matplotlib gallery, I think there may be some
> images
> that show something like what you want, and then you can look at the
> code. ?It's here:
>
> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/gallery.html
>
> HTH,
> Che

That helped. There should be something in there I can use.
Thank you


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:56:44 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:56:44 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-04 14:55 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 3, 3:39 pm, Steve Holden<st... at holdenweb.com>  wrote:
>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>
>>>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
>>>> all of Python in an hour.
>>
>>> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable chance of
>>> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
>>> It's just exposition.
>>
>> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't explained it.
>
> On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
> would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
> than that time to truly understand everything that was said.

Like I said, that's exposition, not explanation. There is an important 
distinction between the two words. Simply providing information is not 
explanation. If it takes four hours for your audience to understand it, then you 
explained it in four hours no matter when you stopped talking.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From senhor.abrantes at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:57:53 2010
From: senhor.abrantes at gmail.com (joao abrantes)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:57:53 +0000
Subject: Pixel control
Message-ID: <880fa1d41002041457v44b7c4ddobe79db5fc7c9ebd5@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone. For example i am using a screen resolution of 800x600 is it
possible to make python control the color of the pixels? For example paint
the pixel (100,200) in red! And it would stay red when i am seeing a
webpage, a movie, playing a game... etc.. Regards, Jo?o Abrantes.
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From david at boddie.org.uk  Thu Feb  4 17:59:44 2010
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:59:44 +0100
Subject: PyQt4 designer custom properties - combo box style
References: <f96f074b-69c9-4aca-8a81-483282d8f6eb@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkfjh0$156$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>

On Tuesday 02 February 2010 22:25, Andrew wrote:

> I am creating custom widgets for the PyQt4 Designer. I can create
> custom properties, but I'm looking for how to create a custom property
> that has a combo box drop down. I've seen them in the example widgets
> and tried following them, but they are using pre-defined items to
> populate their property, so it's not a very clear example of how to
> get the combo box property to work.

Can you explain a bit more about what you have seen and what you are
trying to do. Are you trying to create a property that is treated
specially by Designer or do you want to get the data for the combo
box from somewhere else?

> Is there any other examples or help for this kind of setup?

Have you seen this article?

  http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qq/qq26-pyqtdesigner.html

David


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb  4 18:01:02 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Feb 2010 23:01:02 GMT
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>> 
>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>> 
>>>>> import sys
>>>>> sys.argv
>> ['']
>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>> sys.argv
>> ['abc', 'dev']
>> 
>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>> 
> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?

[scratches head]

Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it 
is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.

Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering 
the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering 
these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will 
cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the 
absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that 
sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having 
been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see 
before commenting publicly.


-- 
Steven


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 18:02:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:02:53 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B521D.6050408@holdenweb.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> 2010-02-04
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> thank you for the reply.
> 
> I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
> newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
> made is all i asked for.
> 
OK, in that case I won't trouble anyone else about it.

> I have a lot things to say about the various political struggle that
> one sees everyday in just about every communication channels that are
> predominantly young male groups, of relatively few people, in online
> posting forums, ircs, online massive multiplayer games... as you may
> know, the quarrels, accusations, bans, happen every hour.
> 
I understand that the diversity of the various channels available to
Python users (and indeed of the Python community overall) is not as high
as it could be. This does from time to time lead to inappropriate behaviors.

I suspect dash kicked you off #python simply because of the reputation
you have established on comp.lang.python, but of course I cannot speak
for him.

> But to be concrete and constructive, i would suggest that in
> freenode's python irc channel:
> 
> ? when a admin bans someone, the admin needs to tell the person the
> reason, and not in some rude way. (a single sentence will do.)
> 
That would, I agree, be appropriate.

> ? The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
> name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
> means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
> particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
> the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
> with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
> e.g. ?repeatedly asking same question?, ?continously raising
> controversial issues?, ?refused to use paste bin when requested? will
> do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
> ?ban'd for trolling?, ?annoying others?, are not a meaningful reason.)
> 
This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
case your suggestions above seem reasonable).

> ? additionally, i would suggest that bans be temporary. The following
> period seems a good start: 5 min ban, 1 hour ban, 1 day ban, 1 week
> ban, 1 month ban. Each can be executed according to severity per the
> admin's judgement. There should be no permanent ban, unless it's
> machine generated commercial spam.
> 
Again, this is probably over-formal for the current levels of banning,
but a reasonable idea in principle.

> Thank you.
> 
> For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
> written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
> detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
> freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
> be found on my website, search for ?ban xah lee?.
> 
Xah, your opinions are I think pretty well-known around here. I
understand that you consider yourself an authority on netiquette, but as
I mentioned in my last response I have personally observed you on many
occasions indulging in inappropriate behavior such as cross-posting
irrelevant material to many newsgroups at the same time. It is actions
like that, combined with your use of intemperate and abusive language,
that caused you to get banned before you had chance to say much.

It's a bit like the boy who cried 'wolf'. People see you doing these
things, and so when you appear on an IRC channel where this is known
about you get banned as a pre-emptive measure.

I have discussed this matter with dash, and he has agreed not to kick
you off without reason the next time you join #python. This will only
last as long as your behavior remains acceptable, so please don't abuse
the privilege I have won back for you. If you do, that will make me feel
(and look) like a real dick, and get you banned again straight away.

regards
 Steve

>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> On Feb 2, 2:23 pm, "Steve Holden, Chairman, PSF" <chair... at python.org>
> wrote:
>> Xah Lee wrote:
>>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>>> freenode.net.
>>> Here's a log:
>>> 2010-02-02
>>> (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL |http://pound-python.org/
>>> | It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
>>> http://paste.pocoo.org/| Tutorial:http://docs.python.org/tut/| FAQ:
>>> http://effbot.org/pyfaq/| New Programmer? Readhttp://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
>>> | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
>>> #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
>>> offtopic
>>> (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
>>> actually.
>>> (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
>>> (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
>>> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
>>> (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
>>> etc) right is quite tricky
>>> (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
>>> wondering whats up with the python verison :D
>>> (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
>>> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)
>>> ---------------
>>> I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
>>> 2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
>>> freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.
>>>   Xah
>>> ?http://xahlee.org/
>>> ?
>> Frankly, Xah Lee, I find it ironic that you see fit to complain about
>> abuse of the IRC channel when you have apparently felt free to ignore
>> the many complaints about your behavior on this and other newsgroups
>> over many years.
>>
>> "As ye sew, so shall ye reap". I imagine that your reputation has
>> preceded you, and that dash (whom I *do* know) is simply looking to keep
>> a well-known nuisance from bothering the rest of the users on the channel.
>>
>> For the present my sympathies are all with him. The PSF will, however,
>> investigate this issue and I will report back to you off-list in due course.
>>
>> regards
>>  Steve
>> --
>> Steve Holden        Chairman, Python Software Foundation
>> The Python Community Conference  http://python.org/psf/
>> PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21        http://us.pycon.org/
>> Watch PyCon on video now!          http://pycon.blip.tv/


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From mailings at julianmoritz.de  Thu Feb  4 18:03:08 2010
From: mailings at julianmoritz.de (Julian)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:03:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
Message-ID: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
"hidden features of Python".

I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
use python?".

For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
popular and beloved python features.

So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.

Regards
Julian


From rfritz333 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 18:10:55 2010
From: rfritz333 at gmail.com (R Fritz)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e97ff208-d08e-4934-8e38-a40d668cd116@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

My favorite feature is its readability.  It's as near to pseudo-code
as any language we have, and that's valuable in open source projects
or when I return to code to modify it.


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb  4 18:13:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 00:13:50 +0100
Subject: Stephen -- Bruce?
Message-ID: <hkfkbg$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org>

What's this about all the Stephen'ses here?

Shouldn't it be Bruce?


- Alf (wondering)


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 18:20:01 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:20:01 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xk4usa8ri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Julian <mailings at julianmoritz.de> writes:
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".

It's terrible, but all the alternatives are even worse. ;-)


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 18:29:14 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:29:14 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkfl8v$psl$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>>>
>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>> sys.argv
>>> ['']
>>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>>> sys.argv
>>> ['abc', 'dev']
>>>
>>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>>>
>> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> [scratches head]
> 
> Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it 
> is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.
> 
> Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering 
> the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering 
> these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will 
> cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the 
> absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that 
> sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having 
> been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see 
> before commenting publicly.
> 
> 
What I meant was it sucks that IDLE has no way to fill in sys.argv as a
part of its "Run Module" functionality - something that is present in
both PythonWin and Wing IDE, for example. But then I have come to the
conclusion that IDLE doesn't fit my brain, or my brain doesn't fit it.

That sys.argv is mutable simply reflects the fact that it's a list.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 18:36:04 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:36:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Stephen -- Bruce?
References: <hkfkbg$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <2a932e46-1b81-4a97-bbee-3bf92b3b1447@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 5:13?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> What's this about all the Stephen'ses here?
>
> Shouldn't it be Bruce?

Of course. We just call everyone Stephen to avoid confusion.

>
> - Alf (wondering)



From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 18:40:41 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:40:41 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
>
>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>>> 
>>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>>> 
>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>> sys.argv
>>> ['']
>>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>>> sys.argv
>>> ['abc', 'dev']
>>> 
>>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>>> 
>> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?
>
> [scratches head]
>
> Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it 
> is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.
>
> Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering 
> the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering 
> these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will 
> cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the 
> absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that 
> sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having 
> been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see 
> before commenting publicly.

I guess that Terry means that a solution that makes it possible to
specify in IDLE *outside* of the Python code the arguments would be
better. Hardcoding the command line arguments isn't something I would do
for testing.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 18:46:52 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:46:52 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>>>> 
>>>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>>>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>>>> 
>>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>>> sys.argv
>>>> ['']
>>>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>>>> sys.argv
>>>> ['abc', 'dev']
>>>> 
>>>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>>>> 
>>> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?
>>
>> [scratches head]
>>
>> Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it 
>> is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.
>>
>> Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering 
>> the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering 
>> these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will 
>> cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the 
>> absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that 
>> sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having 
>> been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see 
>> before commenting publicly.
>
> I guess that Terry means that a solution that makes it possible to
> specify in IDLE *outside* of the Python code the arguments would be
> better. Hardcoding the command line arguments isn't something I would do
> for testing.

Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Feb  4 18:46:58 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:46:58 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>	<a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6B5C72.8080100@stoneleaf.us>

Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-04 14:55 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> On Feb 3, 3:39 pm, Steve Holden<st... at holdenweb.com>  wrote:
>>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>>> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
>>>>> all of Python in an hour.
>>>
>>>> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable 
>>>> chance of
>>>> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
>>>> It's just exposition.
>>>
>>> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't 
>>> explained it.
>>
>> On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
>> would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
>> than that time to truly understand everything that was said.
> 
> Like I said, that's exposition, not explanation. There is an important 
> distinction between the two words. Simply providing information is not 
> explanation. If it takes four hours for your audience to understand it, 
> then you explained it in four hours no matter when you stopped talking.
> 

And if it takes six months?  Would you seriously say it took you six 
months to explain something because it took that long for your audience 
to understand it?

At some point you have to make the transition from person A explaining 
and person(s) B understanding -- they don't necessarily happen 
synchronously.

As a real-life example, I've read several Python books, tutorials, and 
this list for quite some time, some of which has very good explanatory 
material, and yet some of the points I didn't fully comprehend until 
much, much later.  Every time, though, it's still the same reaction:  I 
*love* Python!  :D

~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Feb  4 18:55:30 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:55:30 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>

Julian wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
> 
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
> 
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.
> 
> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
> 
> Regards
> Julian

http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/choose_python.pdf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 19:03:20 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:03:20 -0300
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1888.1265264851.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkfbul$3g5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7mnruycx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:50:29 -0300, Gib Bogle  
<g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:

>>  Also, from the command line, execute:
>>  D:\temp>reg query HKCR\.py
>>  ! REG.EXE VERSION 3.0
>>  HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py
>>     <Sin nombre>        REG_SZ  Python.File
>>     Content Type        REG_SZ  text/plain
>>  HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py\PersistentHandler
>
> I'm interested in this, because I'm using Windows XP, and when I execute  
> this command I see the first part but not the second (with  
> PersistentHandler).

Sorry, I should have removed that line. This is just my setup; a normal  
Python install doesn't create that registry entry. It allows Desktop  
Search (or Windows Search, or whatever it is called nowadays; the F3 key)  
to search inside .py files (default behavior is to just ignore their  
contents).
See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309173

> Is this related to the fact that when I double-click on a .py file the  
> command window disappears after the execution is completed?

(I bet the "Persistent" word confused you.) No, as you can see, it's  
completely unrelated. AFAIK, there is no way (on XP and later at least) to  
keep a console window open after the program exited. Three choices:

- Open a cmd window and execute the script there. You may drag&drop the  
file over the window to avoid typing the full path (I think this last part  
does not work on Vista nor Win7)

- Add a raw_input() [2.x] or input() [3.x] line at the end of the script

- Rename it with a '.cmd' extension and add this line at the very top:

	@(C:\Python26\Python -x %~f0 %* || pause) && goto:EOF

(see this post by Duncan Booth last month:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/650913 )

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb  4 19:09:24 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 00:09:24 GMT
Subject: Code snippet: dualmethod descriptor
References: <0373b8b9$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1876.1265252957.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00f4e6e5$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:09:02 -0300, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:06:18 -0300, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> escribi?:
> 
>> class dualmethod(object):
[...]

> Seems useful!
> Perhaps a better place to post it would be
> <http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/>, at least it's
> easier to search.



Thank you for the encouragement. The recipe is now posted:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577030/



-- 
Steven


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 19:09:28 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:09:28 -0300
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com> <87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>  
escribi?:
> John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

>>>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.

>> I guess that Terry means that a solution that makes it possible to
>> specify in IDLE *outside* of the Python code the arguments would be
>> better. Hardcoding the command line arguments isn't something I would do
>> for testing.
>
> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.

See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb  4 19:10:52 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:10:52 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <hkfl8v$psl$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkfl8v$psl$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkfnmb$169$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/4/2010 6:29 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>>>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>>>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>>>>
>>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>>> sys.argv
>>>> ['']
>>>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>>>> sys.argv
>>>> ['abc', 'dev']
>>>>
>>>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>>>>
>>> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?

No, see below.

>> [scratches head]
>>
>> Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it
>> is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.
>>
>> Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering
>> the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering
>> these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will
>> cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the
>> absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that
>> sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having
>> been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see
>> before commenting publicly.
>>
>>
> What I meant was it sucks that IDLE has no way to fill in sys.argv as a
> part of its "Run Module" functionality - something that is present in
> both PythonWin and Wing IDE, for example.

The first thing I did was to check for such an option on the run tab. 
The second thing I thought of was to suggest to OP that he file a 
feature request (which would likely take years, if ever). But then the 
test line would not be fetched from the file (unless some ##cmdline 
convention were invented), but would have to be hand-entered each time 
the editor were run. Also, a given run of a program can have only one 
command line, and changing the run line for each test case would suck. 
Then I tried sys.argv.

Why that does not suck:

A Python program, as far as I know, cannot process a command lines 
directly, but only processed command line args in the form of a list of 
strings -- sys.argv. Therefore, the need for testing is not to simulate 
a command line but to set sys.argv. I assume the programmer knows the 
mapping from command line to argv since he otherwise cannot sensibly 
proceed.

I believe it is sensible, if not recommended, to put an arg processing 
in a defined function that returns, for instance, a dict, rather than to 
do it at top-level in the main script. So in use, process_args() will be 
called in a context with sys.argv set. So let it be tested. For 
instance, something like:

def _test_arg_processing:
   arg_dict_pairs - (
     (['arg1', 'arg2'], {'speed':int('arg1'), 'range':float('arg2'}),
     (['-v'], {'verbose': True},
   )
   for args,dic in arg_dict_pairs:
     sys.argv = args
     assert process_args() == dic

Repeatable automatic testing of multiple test cases.
I just starting doing this a year ago and love it.

Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb  4 19:12:27 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:12:27 -0500
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkfnp9$169$2@ger.gmane.org>

Iterators, and in particular, generators.
A killer feature.

Terry Jan Reedy



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb  4 19:18:04 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Feb 2010 16:18:04 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkc8qn$b4i$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.1885.1265261952.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkfo3s$5bc$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1885.1265261952.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 3 Feb 2010 08:38:47 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>> In article <mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list at python.org>,
>> Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>	I shall blaspheme, and suggest that maybe the language you want to
>>>use is REXX (ooREXX or Regina).
>>>
>>>	By default, ANY statement that can not be confused for a REXX
>>>language statement is sent to the currently defined command handler
>>>(Which on most OSs is equivalent to Python's os.system() call; the late
>>>Amiga, and IBM's mainframe OS had features that support defining other
>>>applications as command handlers).
>> 
>> How is that different from bash scripting?
>
>	Uhm... Does a bash script support inlining statements from some
>other language?
>
>	Python's shutil library essentially disappears in REXX as one can
>plug in the native command line statement for those functions.


But in bash scripting, you'd just use rsync or cp or rm -- maybe an
example would make clearer how REXX differs from bash.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 19:20:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:20:38 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <hkfo9b$26c$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>
> escribi?:
>> John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> 
>>>>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.
> 
>>> I guess that Terry means that a solution that makes it possible to
>>> specify in IDLE *outside* of the Python code the arguments would be
>>> better. Hardcoding the command line arguments isn't something I would do
>>> for testing.
>>
>> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.
> 
> See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680
> 
So we've had a patch since April and it still didn't make it into 3.1?
That's disappointing. I wonder if there's any chance it'll get into 2.7.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb  4 19:21:07 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:21:07 +1300
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1888.1265264851.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkfbul$3g5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.1926.1265328213.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkfo9j$l4e$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> Sorry, I should have removed that line. This is just my setup; a normal 
> Python install doesn't create that registry entry. It allows Desktop 
> Search (or Windows Search, or whatever it is called nowadays; the F3 
> key) to search inside .py files (default behavior is to just ignore 
> their contents).
> See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309173
> 
>> Is this related to the fact that when I double-click on a .py file the 
>> command window disappears after the execution is completed?
> 
> (I bet the "Persistent" word confused you.) No, as you can see, it's 
> completely unrelated. AFAIK, there is no way (on XP and later at least) 
> to keep a console window open after the program exited. Three choices:
> 
> - Open a cmd window and execute the script there. You may drag&drop the 
> file over the window to avoid typing the full path (I think this last 
> part does not work on Vista nor Win7)
> 
> - Add a raw_input() [2.x] or input() [3.x] line at the end of the script
> 
> - Rename it with a '.cmd' extension and add this line at the very top:
> 
>     @(C:\Python26\Python -x %~f0 %* || pause) && goto:EOF
> 
> (see this post by Duncan Booth last month:
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/650913 )
> 

Thanks Gabriel.  I didn't know about the drag&drop capability (learn something 
every day, forget two things).  BTW input() works for me in 2.5.
Cheers
Gib


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 20:13:36 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:13:36 -0300
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <op.u7mq0yzsx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:

> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>
> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>
> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>
>
> After changing to
> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>
> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>
> So it seems, that under windows 7 the host name lookup occurs for every
> RPC call

Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4 address,  
localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)

I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't  
work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From stephen.thorne at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:13:40 2010
From: stephen.thorne at gmail.com (Stephen Thorne)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:13:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7030037b-cd1e-4621-ab74-4f819ef5f4eb@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 8:26?am, Xah Lee <xah... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
> newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
> made is all i asked for.
>
> <trolling cruft snipped>

I am taking this as seriously as all the articles you have posted to
usenet.

Stephen.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb  4 20:36:19 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:36:19 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <4B6B7613.3000903@tim.thechases.com>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>  
>> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.
> 
> See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680


Am I the only one that expected that issue to be about too many 
Steves (and perhaps too many Tims) on c.l.p?  :-)

-tkc




From bcb at undisclosedlocation.net  Thu Feb  4 20:45:48 2010
From: bcb at undisclosedlocation.net (Bruce C. Baker)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:45:48 -0600
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Iterators, and in particular, generators.
> A killer feature.
>
> Terry Jan Reedy
>

Neither unique to Python.

And then're the other killer "features" superfluous ":"s and rigid 
formatting! 




From jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:56:50 2010
From: jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com (jonny lowe)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:56:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
Message-ID: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

Is there an easy way to merge stdin and stdout? For instance suppose I
have script that prompts for a number and prints the number. If you
execute this with redirection from a file say input.txt with 42 in the
file, then executing

./myscript < input.txt > output.txt

the output.txt might look like this:

Enter a number:
You entered 42.

What I want is to have an easy way to merge input.txt and the stdout
so that output.txt look like:

Enter a number: 42
You entered 42.

Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.

Thanks.

-jon


From stephen.thorne at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:58:36 2010
From: stephen.thorne at gmail.com (Stephen Thorne)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:58:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1924.1265324650.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eaff24dc-b5f0-450e-9627-59df4a2ecd1c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 9:02?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> > ? The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
> > name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
> > means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
> > particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
> > the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
> > with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
> > e.g. ?repeatedly asking same question?, ?continously raising
> > controversial issues?, ?refused to use paste bin when requested? will
> > do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
> > ?ban'd for trolling?, ?annoying others?, are not a meaningful reason.)
>
> This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
> happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
> bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
> case your suggestions above seem reasonable).

The current banlist lists 258 names. According to my logs there have
been 95 masks added to this list and 44 removals since October. This
is approximately 23 a month, or 3 every 4 days. 11 ops were active in
this action during this period.

For reference, this is the 4th largest IRC channel on freenode
according to http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=freenode
and the other large channels weigh in with 298 (gentoo), 9
(archlinux), 14 (##C++), 280 (#ubuntu), 109 (#debian).

We are hardly exceptional in the size of our list of people we have
excluded from the IRC community.

On discussion with #archlinux it seems that the reason archlinux has
so few on their list is because they use chanserv's AKICK feature,
which means the name isn't kept in the IRC client accessable banlist,
and is only put there temporarily when the excluded user returns by
chanserv.

Stephen.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Feb  4 21:01:08 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:01:08 -0800
Subject: Exiting a Program Running in Idle, Various Choices
Message-ID: <hkfu57$ipd$2@news.eternal-september.org>

I I have a  very simple program running in Python, with say the last 
line print "bye". it finishes leaving the script showing >>> in the 
shell window. The program proceeds linearly to the bottom line.

Suppose now I have instead a few lines of MatPlotLib code (MPL) like 
this at the end:

...
Show()

Show displays some graph and again the code proceeds linearly from line 
1. However, if one closes the graphic by clicking the x in the upper 
right corner of that window, then no >>> appears in the shell, and one 
must kill the shell using the x in the shell's upper right corner. A 
little dialog with the choices of OK (kill) or cancel appears. Use OK 
and the shell window disappears. A ctrl-c does nothing in the shell.

I know about sys.exit(),and a "finish" def when using Tkinter. I'm not 
using Tkinter as far as I know via MPL.

So how does one exit smoothly in this case of Show(), so that the shell 
window remains ready to entry commands?


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 21:09:47 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:09:47 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <eaff24dc-b5f0-450e-9627-59df4a2ecd1c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1924.1265324650.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<eaff24dc-b5f0-450e-9627-59df4a2ecd1c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B7DEB.5020101@holdenweb.com>

Stephen Thorne wrote:
> On Feb 5, 9:02 am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>> ? The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
>>> name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
>>> means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
>>> particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
>>> the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
>>> with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
>>> e.g. ?repeatedly asking same question?, ?continously raising
>>> controversial issues?, ?refused to use paste bin when requested? will
>>> do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
>>> ?ban'd for trolling?, ?annoying others?, are not a meaningful reason.)
>> This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
>> happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
>> bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
>> case your suggestions above seem reasonable).
> 
> The current banlist lists 258 names. According to my logs there have
> been 95 masks added to this list and 44 removals since October. This
> is approximately 23 a month, or 3 every 4 days. 11 ops were active in
> this action during this period.
> 
> For reference, this is the 4th largest IRC channel on freenode
> according to http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=freenode
> and the other large channels weigh in with 298 (gentoo), 9
> (archlinux), 14 (##C++), 280 (#ubuntu), 109 (#debian).
> 
> We are hardly exceptional in the size of our list of people we have
> excluded from the IRC community.
> 
> On discussion with #archlinux it seems that the reason archlinux has
> so few on their list is because they use chanserv's AKICK feature,
> which means the name isn't kept in the IRC client accessable banlist,
> and is only put there temporarily when the excluded user returns by
> chanserv.
> 
Thanks, Stephen.

It's fairly obvious I am not an active IRC user, isn't it?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From hidura at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 21:10:45 2010
From: hidura at gmail.com (Hidura)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:10:45 -0400
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
In-Reply-To: <871vh0mxdy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<4bbf7fb21002040740x66f203c7x57099d07de1fe30@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1919.1265311302.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<871vh0mxdy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4bbf7fb21002041810xc9bf899v1827ff83abb67c44@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks i middle resolve the problem, and i going to read the PEP-366 i've
been read the 328, i will kept informed of the progresses.

Thanks again for the help [?]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Ben Finney
<ben+python at benfinney.id.au<ben%2Bpython at benfinney.id.au>
> wrote:

> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:
>
> > If you directly run a script from inside a package, Python does not
> > know that it belongs to a package, and treats it as a simple, lonely
> > script. In that case, relative imports won't work.
>
> Which I consider to be a bug. Fortunately, it's already addressed in PEP
> 366 <URL:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0366/>. Unfortunately, it
> involves more hackish boilerplate at the top of the program, and is only
> available in Python 2.6+.
>
> --
>  \              ?Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does |
>  `\           knowledge.? ?Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 |
> _o__)                                                                  |
> Ben Finney
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Hidura
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From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Thu Feb  4 21:20:22 2010
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:20:22 -0000
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
In-Reply-To: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100205022022.26099.2092860927.divmod.xquotient.476@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:56 am, jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>Is there an easy way to merge stdin and stdout? For instance suppose I
>have script that prompts for a number and prints the number. If you
>execute this with redirection from a file say input.txt with 42 in the
>file, then executing
>
>./myscript < input.txt > output.txt
>
>the output.txt might look like this:
>
>Enter a number:
>You entered 42.
>
>What I want is to have an easy way to merge input.txt and the stdout
>so that output.txt look like:
>
>Enter a number: 42
>You entered 42.
>
>Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.

It sounds like you might be looking for script(1)?

Jean-Paul


From half.italian at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 21:26:06 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:26:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1445b521-d9d9-4200-9a01-f146e1543d40@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 3:03?pm, Julian <maili... at julianmoritz.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
>
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
>
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.
>
> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
>
> Regards
> Julian

I love list comprehensions, but am currently falling for 'with'.

~Sean


From half.italian at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 22:10:31 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:10:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 6:08?pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 8:47?am, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, calling os.path.walk() and os.path.join() all the time on raw
> > strings is fun, but I seem to recall from my Ruby days a class called
> > Pathname, which presented an object that behaved like a string at
> > need, and like a filesystem path at need. path + 'folder' would
> > call .join() and insert the / correctly, for example.
>
> > What's the best equivalent in Python-land?
>
> It's no longer supported, but the 3rd party 'path' module used to be
> the go-to module for this:
>
> >>> from path import path
>
> C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\path.py:32: DeprecationWarning: the md5
> module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
> ? import sys, warnings, os, fnmatch, glob, shutil, codecs, md5>>> c = path('C:\\')
> >>> c.listdir()
>
> [path(u'C:\\AUTOEXEC.BAT'), path(u'C:\\boot.ini'), ...]>>> (c + 'python26').listdir()
>
> [path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
> \python26\\DLLs'), ...]>>> (c / 'python26').listdir()
>
> [path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
> \python26\\DLLs'), ...]
>
> I've hand edited the results for brevity...
>
> The module could do with some TLC to bring it up to date, but warning
> aside it still seems to work fine under 2.6.
>
> (From memory, I think the original author gave up when it became clear
> it would never be integrated into the standard lib[1], which is a
> shame, I think there's scope for a pathtools addition to the lib that
> provides this level of convenience...)
>
> There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
> Hope this helps.

It's too bad that something like this can't be agreed to.  I used a
homegrown module like this for a couple of years in my early days with
python.  It was great, but I didn't know enough at the time to make it
really useful.

Why did Path() get rejected?  Is it the idea itself, or just the
approach that was used?  What are the complaints?

~Sean


From aharrisreid at googlemail.com  Thu Feb  4 22:29:40 2010
From: aharrisreid at googlemail.com (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:29:40 +0000
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7svgogF768U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7svgogF768U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4B6B90A4.6060708@googlemail.com>

Many thanks to all those who replied to my question and clearing-up the 
differences between GET and POST.  I think I know what to do now - if 
not, I'll be back :-)

Regards,
Alan


From sridharr at activestate.com  Fri Feb  5 00:01:27 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:01:27 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available
Message-ID: <D44D6DB5-DB59-4AEE-B359-40A5D66FAAD7@activestate.com>

I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available for download from:

    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/

This is a minor release with several updates and fixes.

Changes in 2.6.4.10
-------------------

- PyPM is now included in 64-bit Windows and Linux builds
- Include Distribute instead of setuptools
- Include pip
- Upgrade to Tcl/Tk 8.5.8
- [Windows] Upgrade to Pywin32 CVS (2009-11-10)
- [Windows] Support for OpenSSL in 64-bit
- [Windows] Include Tcl/Tk header files 
- [Windows] Fix broken IDLE on the 64-bit build 

See the release notes for full details:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.6/relnotes.html#changes


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's binary distribution of Python. Builds
for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux are made freely available. Builds
for Solaris, HP-UX and AIX, and access to older versions are
available with ActivePython Business Edition:

    http://www.activestate.com/business_edition/

ActivePython includes the Python core and the many core extensions:
zlib and bzip2 for data compression, the Berkeley DB (bsddb) and SQLite
(sqlite3) database libraries, OpenSSL bindings for HTTPS
support, the Tix GUI widgets for Tkinter, ElementTree for XML
processing, ctypes (on supported platforms) for low-level library
access, and others. The Windows distribution ships with PyWin32 -- a
suite of Windows tools developed by Mark Hammond, including bindings
to the Win32 API and Windows COM. 

Beginning with the 2.6.3.7 release, ActivePython includes a binary package
manager for Python (PyPM) that can be used to install packages much
easily. For example:

    pypm install pylons

See this page for full details:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.6/whatsincluded.html

As well, ActivePython ships with a wealth of documentation for both
new and experienced Python programmers. In addition to the core Python
docs, ActivePython includes the "What's New in Python" series, "Dive
into Python", the Python FAQs & HOWTOs, and the Python Enhancement
Proposals (PEPs).

An online version of the docs can be found here:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.6/

We would welcome any and all feedback to:

    ActivePython-feedback at activestate.com

Please file bugs against ActivePython at:

    http://bugs.activestate.com/query.cgi?set_product=ActivePython


On what platforms does ActivePython run?
----------------------------------------

ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:

- Windows/x86
- Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
- Mac OS X
- Linux/x86
- Linux/x86_64 (aka "AMD64")
- Solaris/SPARC (Business Edition only)
- Solaris/x86 (Business Edition only)
- HP-UX/PA-RISC (Business Edition only)
- AIX/PowerPC (Business Edition only)
- AIX/PowerPC 64-bit (Business Edition only)

Custom builds are available in Enterprise Edition:

    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/enterprise/

Thanks, and enjoy!

The Python Team

--
Sridhar Ratnakumar
sridharr at activestate.com
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 00:20:58 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 05:20:58 GMT
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com> <87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<mailman.1932.1265333794.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00f52feb$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:36:19 -0600, Tim Chase wrote:

> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>
>>> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.
>> 
>> See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680
> 
> 
> Am I the only one that expected that issue to be about too many Steves
> (and perhaps too many Tims) on c.l.p?  :-)


That was exactly my thought too.


One of the multiple Steves'ly yrs,


-- 
Steve


From john at castleamber.com  Fri Feb  5 00:50:20 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:50:20 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com> <87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<mailman.1932.1265333794.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871vh0z0wz.fsf@castleamber.com>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:

> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma
>> <john at castleamber.com>  
>>> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.
>>
>> See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680
>
> Am I the only one that expected that issue to be about too many Steves
> (and perhaps too many Tims) on c.l.p?  :-)

Ha ha ha, yeah something like that, wasn't expecting what was actually
on that page.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Feb  5 01:18:37 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:18:37 -0800
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6bb461$0$1654$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
>> all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
>> area.
> 
> How is this at all specific to Python?
> 
> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.

     Good point.

     This is actually a problem in what's called "constructive geometry".
Usually, this is a 3D problem, for which the term "constructive solid
geometry", or CSG, is used.  That's where to look for algorithms.

     Yes, there are efficient algorithms and near-exact solutions.
The basic idea is that you find all the points at which circles
intersect, sort those by one coordinate, and advance across that
coordinate, from one value of interest to the next.  Between any
two values of interest you're dealing with areas bounded by arcs
and lines, so the areas can be calculated analytically.  It's a
lot like a rasterized polygon fill algorithm.

     (I used to do stuff like this back when I did physics engines
with efficient 3D collision detection.)

				John Nagle


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:12:05 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:12:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f37025cb-e213-4ba1-ab7a-37c786485b30@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 4 Feb, 23:03, Julian <maili... at julianmoritz.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
>
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
>
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.
>
> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
>
> Regards
> Julian

* simplicity
* documentation - some criticise it, I love it.
* duck typing
* batteries included

And lots more!

--
Arnaud


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Feb  5 02:19:46 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:19:46 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xr5p0kv3h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Julian <mailings at julianmoritz.de> writes:
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".

- Very easy to learn, at least for the not-too-hairy fragment
- some features like generators are advanced compared with some
  other languages, yet still easy to use
- pleasant-to-use syntax (yes, the indentation stuff that everyone
  is freaked out by at first) and well-evolved library makes coding
  very productive and enjoyable
- reasonably good documentation
- large and friendly user/developer community


From george.sakkis at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:25:59 2010
From: george.sakkis at gmail.com (George Sakkis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:25:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
Message-ID: <de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 2:45?am, "Bruce C. Baker" <b... at undisclosedlocation.net>
wrote:

> "Terry Reedy" <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote in message
>
> news:mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list at python.org...
>
> > Iterators, and in particular, generators.
> > A killer feature.
>
> > Terry Jan Reedy

+1, iterators/generators is among Python's best features for me too.

> Neither unique to Python.

Can you name a single feature that is unique to a language, Python or
other ? Every idea that's any good has been copied over, usually more
than once.

> And then're the other killer "features" superfluous ":"s and rigid
> formatting!

I'll give the benefit of doubt and assume you're joking rather than
trolling.

George


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Feb  5 02:29:39 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:29:39 +1000
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <f37025cb-e213-4ba1-ab7a-37c786485b30@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<f37025cb-e213-4ba1-ab7a-37c786485b30@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002042329p63900958v56e1e9074267d1c8@mail.gmail.com>

Personally, I love the fact that I can type in 2**25 in the intepreter
without crashing my machine. ;)

Cheers,
-Xav
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From monaghand.david at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:43:55 2010
From: monaghand.david at gmail.com (David Monaghan)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:43:55 +0000
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <odinm5dh715ick21rfddahmfmbj7qrg4bp@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:39:01 +0000, David Monaghan
<monaghand.david at gmail.com> wrote:

>I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but in
>3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
>not the one the script is in.
>
>It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
>has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>technique, I suppose).
>
>The program fails at:
>
>    try:
>        tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>    except IOError:
>        <snip>

I very much appreciate all the help offered on this, but feel a bit of an
idiot now as I can't reproduce the behaviour (it had happened on two
separate machines).

What I am still getting is a similar problem on my work computer with the
program on a network hard drive. Not always - it'll run on repeated
attempts, then fail for a few, then work again. When it failed I ran the
script as suggested:

import os
print("curdir=", os.getcwd())
print("__file__=", __file__)
input()

and got the response:

curdir= H:\
__file__= H:\FRCR\FRCR2010\Course documents\FRCR2009\Script1.py

so it's 'sticking' at H:

For interest, I ran the script from IDLE, too, and PythonWin, on three
separate computers (2 Python3, 1 Python2.6)

With that I get a NameError for __file__

curdir= H:\FRCR\FRCR2010\Course documents\FRCR2009
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "H:\FRCR\FRCR2010\Course documents\FRCR2009\Script1.py", line 3,
in <module>
    print("__file__=", __file__)
NameError: name '__file__' is not defined

What have I done wrong?

DaveM


From donn.ingle at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 03:01:54 2010
From: donn.ingle at gmail.com (donn)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:01:54 +0200
Subject: pyclutter anyone?
Message-ID: <4B6BD072.4080006@gmail.com>

Hi, this is a little bit of a cross-post. I posted to the clutter list, 
but there's little activity there.

I am trying to make sense of pyClutter 1.0. Could anyone point me to an
example (or post one) that shows clipping from a path applied to child
objects?

For example: A star shape that contains a bunch of moving rectangles
which will travel/size/rotate with the star, but are clipped to the
shape of the star.

I suspect this will involve a custom clutter.Group class of some kind,
with cogl paths and an on_paint() method, but I can find no headway on
the web so far.

Hope someone can help!
\d

-- 
Fonty Python and Things! -- http://otherwise.relics.co.za/wiki/Software



From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Fri Feb  5 03:36:33 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:36:33 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
Message-ID: <4B6BD891.3060505@bluewin.ch>

Hi,

   I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle window.

This is the command I have been using:
   C:\Python24\pythonw.exe C:\Python24\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
execfile('C:\\Python24\\i')

And this is the command that doesn't start anything:
   C:\Python25\pythonw.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
execfile('C:\\Python25\\i')

The command is exactly the same with the digit 5 in the place of 4. All 
paths and names are correct. C:\\Python25\\i sets up sys.path but seems 
irrelevant, as taking the execfile () part out doesn't change anything. 
The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a warning saying 
that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any tips?

Thanks

Frederic

 

 





From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 03:49:02 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:19:02 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <4b6bb461$0$1654$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6bb461$0$1654$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002050049u77d55619i304b0a9fdb2e77a8@mail.gmail.com>

Here is my approach:
# input circles, remove duplicates, store them
# check whether all circle intersect:
    if no: print '0.0'
    if yes:
# calculate intersection points of two circles.
# check if that point lies in rest all circles
    if yes: store it as polygon-coordinates (hull)
    calculate area of curve from the given two points
# calculate final area : net area of curve + area of polygon
Here is my final code :
It's still Buggy (the logic I believe is correct, The implementation is
Buggy I guess
<Code>

import math

def catch_point(x, y):
    # checks for points which lie inside all the circles
    # stores all such point in hull
    kount = True
    for i in range(n):
        if (x - circle[i][0])**2 + (y - circle[i][1])**2 - 1.0 > 0:
            kount = False
    if kount == True:
        hull.append((x, y))

def curve_area(x0, y0, x1, y1, x2, y2):
    k = math.sqrt((x1 - x2)**2 + (y1 - y2)**2)
    area_c = math.pi * (math.degrees(math.acos(1.0 - k*k/2.0))/360) #TODO
Verify
    area_t = 0.5 * ( x0*(y1 - y2) - x1*(y0 - y2) + x2*(y0 - y1) )
    if area_t < 0:  area_t = -area_t
    area = area_c - area_t
    #print area
    return area

def polygon_area(p):
    # calculate area of the polygon given the co-ordinates
    return 0.5 * abs(sum(x0*y1 - x1*y0 for ((x0, y0), (x1, y1)) in
segments(p)))

def segments(p):
    return zip(p, p[1:] + [p[0]])

def intersect_circles(l):
    # check whether all circle intersects or not
    for i in l:
        for j in l:
            if (i[0] - j[0])**2 + (i[1] - j[1])**2 >= 4.0:
                sol = 0.0
                return sol
                break
    return 1.0

def intersect_coordinates(l):
    sol = 0.0   # initialisation of final result
    for i in range(n):
        for j in range(n):
            # find all intersecting co-ordinates for each circle
            xa, xb = circle[i][0], circle[j][0]
            ya, yb = circle[i][1], circle[j][1]
            d = math.sqrt((xa - xb)**2 + (ya - yb)**2)
            if d == 0:  continue
            x1 = 0.5*(xa + xb) + 0.5*(yb - ya)*math.sqrt(4 - d*d) / d
            y1 = 0.5*(yb + ya) - 0.5*(xb - xa)*math.sqrt(4 - d*d) / d
            catch_point(x1, y1) # first intersection point
            x2 = 0.5*(xa + xb) - 0.5*(yb - ya)*math.sqrt(4 - d*d) / d
            y2 = 0.5*(yb + ya) + 0.5*(xb - xa)*math.sqrt(4 - d*d) / d
            catch_point(x2, y2) # second intersection point
        sol += curve_area(circle[i][0], circle[i][1], hull[-1][0],
hull[-1][1], hull[-2][0], hull[-2][1])
        # add up the value of curves
    return sol

t = int(raw_input())        # total no. of test cases
for test in range(t):
    n = int(raw_input())    # total no. of circles
    circle = []             # a blank list which will contain center of
circles
    hull = []               # a blank list which will consist of points on
convex polygon
    for i in range(n):
        x,y = [float(i) for i in raw_input().split()]
        circle.append((x,y))    # storing the value

    circle = list(set(circle))  # removing duplicates
    n = len(circle)             # calculating no. of non-duplicate circle
    sol = intersect_circles(circle)     #intersect_circles() check whether
all circle intersect
    if sol == 0.0:          # if sol == 0.0 means all circle do not
intersect
        print "0.000000"    # solution = 0.000000 in this case
    elif n == 1:            # if only 1 circle present, the solution is PI
        print "%.6f" %(math.pi)
    else:
        sol = intersect_coordinates(circle)        # for rest cases we need
to calculate intersection co-ordinates of circle
        print "%.6f" %(sol + polygon_area(hull))   # final solution

</Code>

sample output :
4
2
0 0
1 0
1.228370
3
0 0
0 0
0 0
3.141593
3
0 0
0 1
10 12
0.000000
3
0 0
1 0
0 1
0.192972

Either there is a redundency or there is some issue with this line : sol +=
curve_area(circle[i][0], circle[i][1], hull[-1][0], hull[-1][1],
hull[-2][0], hull[-2][1])

Still trying to fix it.
~l0nwlf

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:48 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:

> Chris Rebert wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
>>> all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
>>> area.
>>>
>>
>> How is this at all specific to Python?
>>
>> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
>> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
>> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.
>>
>
>    Good point.
>
>    This is actually a problem in what's called "constructive geometry".
> Usually, this is a 3D problem, for which the term "constructive solid
> geometry", or CSG, is used.  That's where to look for algorithms.
>
>    Yes, there are efficient algorithms and near-exact solutions.
> The basic idea is that you find all the points at which circles
> intersect, sort those by one coordinate, and advance across that
> coordinate, from one value of interest to the next.  Between any
> two values of interest you're dealing with areas bounded by arcs
> and lines, so the areas can be calculated analytically.  It's a
> lot like a rasterized polygon fill algorithm.
>
>    (I used to do stuff like this back when I did physics engines
> with efficient 3D collision detection.)
>
>                                John Nagle
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb  5 04:01:49 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:01:49 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkgmpv$p98$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Anthra Norell:
> Hi,
> 
>   I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle window.
> 
> This is the command I have been using:
>   C:\Python24\pythonw.exe C:\Python24\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
> execfile('C:\\Python24\\i')
> 
> And this is the command that doesn't start anything:
>   C:\Python25\pythonw.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
> execfile('C:\\Python25\\i')
> 
> The command is exactly the same with the digit 5 in the place of 4. All 
> paths and names are correct. C:\\Python25\\i sets up sys.path but seems 
> irrelevant, as taking the execfile () part out doesn't change anything. 
> The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a warning saying 
> that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any tips?

Don't know, but the '-n' option, is that passed to IDLE?

Perhaps try removing that.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 04:10:39 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:10:39 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Yhanks  a lot I'll check whether this is the root cause.

Currently my machine could live without IPV6


bye

N


Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>
>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>
>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>
>>
>> After changing to
>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>
>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>>
>> So it seems, that under windows 7 the host name lookup occurs for every
>> RPC call
> 
> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
> 
> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.
> 


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 05:58:18 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:58:18 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6BF9CA.4030702@sequans.com>

News123 wrote:
> Yhanks  a lot I'll check whether this is the root cause.
>
> Currently my machine could live without IPV6
>
>
> bye
>
> N
>
>
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>   
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>     
>>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>>
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>>
>>>
>>> After changing to
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>>>
>>> So it seems, that under windows 7 the host name lookup occurs for every
>>> RPC call
>>>       
>> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
>> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
>>
>> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
>> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
>> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.
>>
>>     
Or you can simply use an explicit external address. Most of the time 
xmlRPC server/clients are used between distant machines.
If your are using localhost for test purpose, then binding your server 
on its external IP instead of the local one could solve your problem 
(wihtout removing the IPV6 stack).

import socket

# server
server = SimpleXMLRPCServer((socket.gethostname(), 5000), 
logRequests=False, allow_none=True)


# client
xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://%s.yourdomain.com:%s" % 
(socket.gethostname(), 5000))

JM

PS : please don't top post :o)
PS : just wondering if using the port 80 is legal


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Feb  5 06:09:16 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:09:16 +0000
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkgu8r$nn8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/04/10 23:03, Julian wrote:
<cut>

> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.

That it is ego-orientated programming ;-)
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2009-April/007419.html

-- 
mph


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 06:10:57 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:10:57 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4B6BFCC1.9070104@sequans.com>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> Julian wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
>> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
>> "hidden features of Python".
>>
>> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
>> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
>> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
>> use python?".
>>
>> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
>> popular and beloved python features.
>>
>> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
>> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
>>
>> Regards
>> Julian
>
> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/choose_python.pdf 
>
"Choose metaclasses if you don?t value your sanity."

That remembers me the time when it took me 4 hours to write a ten lines 
metaclass :o)

JM


From lallous at lgwm.org  Fri Feb  5 06:11:01 2010
From: lallous at lgwm.org (lallous)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 03:11:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a multiline string
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<a1qq37-bjg.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <cd608786-cc9a-431c-97c3-0ff9ffb327e8@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

@Ulrich:

On Feb 4, 1:09?pm, Ulrich Eckhardt <eckha... at satorlaser.com> wrote:
> Just for the record: Neither of the below methods actually produce a
> multiline string. They only spread a string containing one line over
> multiple lines of source code.
>

I meant:
"Note" -> "Note: I don't want to use new lines"

I did not want a multi line string


Thanks guys, method 3 seems to be good enough.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb  5 06:38:15 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 11:38:15 GMT
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Anthra Norell <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>    window. 
> 
> This is the command I have been using:
>    C:\Python24\pythonw.exe C:\Python24\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
> execfile('C:\\Python24\\i')
> 
> And this is the command that doesn't start anything:
>    C:\Python25\pythonw.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
> execfile('C:\\Python25\\i')
> 
> The command is exactly the same with the digit 5 in the place of 4.
> All paths and names are correct. C:\\Python25\\i sets up sys.path but
> seems irrelevant, as taking the execfile () part out doesn't change
> anything. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
> tips? 
> 
> Thanks
> 
Does 'unable to start a 2.5 idle window' mean you get some sort of error
or simply that nothing happens? 

What happens if you simply run C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.bat
Does that work or not?

What about running this from a command prompt:

 C:\Python25\python.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.py

Does that run idle or do you get any error messages?
What about this?

 C:\Python25\python.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw

Using pythonw.exe will start the program with all error output dumped in
the bit bucket. Running from a command prompt with python.exe will at
least let you see if there are any errors. 

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Fri Feb  5 06:42:47 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:42:47 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002050342w20133cf3p2d2da8932b81f0f3@mail.gmail.com>

>> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
>> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
>> "hidden features of Python".
>>
>> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
>> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
>> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
>> use python?".
>>
>> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
>> popular and beloved python features.
>>
>> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
>> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
>>
>> Regards
>> Julian
>
> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/choose_python.pdf

This is effin hilarious! Should be either linked or stored on python.org

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 06:57:17 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 03:57:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
Message-ID: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I very badly need this to work. I have been googling out for a week
with no significant solution. I open a process p1 which does keeps
running for 4+ hours. It gives some output in stdout now and then. I
open this process with subprocess.Popen and redirect the stdout to
PIPE. However when I read the output with readline it blocks waiting
forever. I need to read from p1.stdout till what it has in the PIPE.
Can someone help me out with the exact code change that can accomplish
the task.

from subprocess import *

p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)

while 1:
    line=p1.stdout.readline()
    print line

Thanks in advance,
~Ashok.


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Fri Feb  5 07:12:55 2010
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:12:55 +0100
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Ashok Prabhu <ashokprabhuv at gmail.com> writes:

> from subprocess import *
> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)

Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.

-- Alain.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 07:13:16 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:13:16 +0100
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hk6j08$8s3$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<a2803a2d-4b11-4d8c-bf81-4929830f7fdf@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.07.12.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hk6j08$8s3$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkh1v4$e1i$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
>>> Jeez, Steve, you're beginning to sound like some kind of fallacy
>>> zealot... ;)
>> Death to all those who confuse agumentum ad populum with argumentum ad 
>> verecundiam!!!
>>
>>
> Yeah, what did the zealots ever do for us?

They produced Python?

.
.
.


Oh Python! Shut up!




From alpeachey at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 07:16:16 2010
From: alpeachey at gmail.com (apeach)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:16:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I love intuitive type recognition.

no need to 'DIM everything AS Integer' etc.!



From bartc at freeuk.com  Fri Feb  5 07:18:46 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:18:46 GMT
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <e97ff208-d08e-4934-8e38-a40d668cd116@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<e97ff208-d08e-4934-8e38-a40d668cd116@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <G0Uan.36049$Ym4.3337@text.news.virginmedia.com>


"R Fritz" <rfritz333 at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:e97ff208-d08e-4934-8e38-a40d668cd116 at l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> My favorite feature is its readability.  It's as near to pseudo-code
> as any language we have, and that's valuable in open source projects
> or when I return to code to modify it.

That might be true when used to code actual algorithms using basic features.

But a lot of Pythonisms would appear mysterious to someone who doesn't know 
the language (for example, what does :: mean in an array index).

Or perhaps pseudo-code is much more advanced these days...

-- 
bartc 



From frank at chagford.com  Fri Feb  5 07:45:30 2010
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:45:30 +0200
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
Message-ID: <hkh3tn$lbc$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi all

Assume you have a server process running, a pool of worker threads to 
perform tasks, and a Queue.Queue() to pass the tasks to the workers.

In order to shut down the server cleanly, you want to ensure that the 
workers have all finished their tasks. I like the technique of putting a 
None onto the queue, and have each worker check for None, put None back onto 
the queue, and terminate itself.

The main program would look something like this -

    q.put(None)
    for worker in worker_threads:
        worker.join()

At this point you can be sure that each thread has completed its tasks and 
terminated itself.

However, the queue is not empty - it still has the final None in it.

Is it advisable to finalise the cleanup like this? -

    while not q.empty():
        q.get()
        q.task_done()
    q.join()

Or is this completely redundant?

Thanks

Frank Millman




From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 07:53:05 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:53:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 5:12?pm, Alain Ketterlin <al... at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
wrote:
> Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> writes:
> > from subprocess import *
> > p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>
> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>
> -- Alain.

Hi Alain,

Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
below.

>>> from subprocess import *
>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 543, in __init__
    errread, errwrite)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 975, in _execute_child
    raise child_exception
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory

Thanks,
~Ashok.


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Fri Feb  5 07:58:27 2010
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:58:27 +0100
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87636bn8jw.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Ashok Prabhu <ashokprabhuv at gmail.com> writes:

>> > p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>>
>> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>>
>> -- Alain.

> Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
> below.
>
>>>> from subprocess import *
>>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)

You forgot to change the monolithic command into a list of words. Since
you don't use the shell anymore you have to give Popen a pre-parsed
command line.

-- Alain.


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Fri Feb  5 08:23:57 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:23:57 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>

Thank you both (Alf and Duncan) for your comments. I answer Duncan's 
questions interleaved:

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Anthra Norell <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>>    window. 
>>
>> This is the command I have been using:
>>    C:\Python24\pythonw.exe C:\Python24\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
>> execfile('C:\\Python24\\i')
>>
>> And this is the command that doesn't start anything:
>>    C:\Python25\pythonw.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
>> execfile('C:\\Python25\\i')
>>
>> The command is exactly the same with the digit 5 in the place of 4.
>> All paths and names are correct. C:\\Python25\\i sets up sys.path but
>> seems irrelevant, as taking the execfile () part out doesn't change
>> anything. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
>> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
>> tips? 
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>     
> Does 'unable to start a 2.5 idle window' mean you get some sort of error
> or simply that nothing happens? 
>   
Nothing happens and no error message shows. The disk head stepper makes 
a brief attempt at something then goes silent and that's it.
> What happens if you simply run C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.bat
> Does that work or not?
>   
Same thing: Nothing happens
> What about running this from a command prompt:
>
>  C:\Python25\python.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.py
>   
Same thing: Nothing!
> Does that run idle or do you get any error messages?
> What about this?
>
>  C:\Python25\python.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw
>
>   
Nothing!
> Using pythonw.exe will start the program with all error output dumped in
> the bit bucket. Running from a command prompt with python.exe will at
> least let you see if there are any errors. 
>   
python.exe from the command line works all right in a DOS window. The 
problem must be with  idle.pyw. I tried the old idle.pyw (2.4) with the 
new python.exe. (2.5) and that didn't work either.
What is the bit bucket? If I had a clue, I could go from there. What 
puzzles me is that version 2.4 has been working fine and one wouldn't 
think that the changes from 2.4 to 2.5 would be so extensive as to cause 
a major malfunction. For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 
2.5, though, because it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 
cannot even use it.

Frederic



From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 08:33:00 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87636bn8jw.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <4ae7195a-d3ec-4886-9123-de88641aa797@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 5:58?pm, Alain Ketterlin <al... at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
wrote:
> Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> writes:
> >> > p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>
> >> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>
> >> -- Alain.
> > Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
> > below.
>
> >>>> from subprocess import *
> >>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)
>
> You forgot to change the monolithic command into a list of words. Since
> you don't use the shell anymore you have to give Popen a pre-parsed
> command line.
>
> -- Alain.

Here is the error again

>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d',stdout=PIPE)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 494, in __init__
    raise TypeError("bufsize must be an integer")
TypeError: bufsize must be an integer


~Ashok.


From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 08:39:49 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:39:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87636bn8jw.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<4ae7195a-d3ec-4886-9123-de88641aa797@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e8538cbc-a0db-4606-870b-37eeeaaa7410@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 6:33?pm, Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 5:58?pm, Alain Ketterlin <al... at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> writes:
> > >> > p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>
> > >> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>
> > >> -- Alain.
> > > Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
> > > below.
>
> > >>>> from subprocess import *
> > >>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)
>
> > You forgot to change the monolithic command into a list of words. Since
> > you don't use the shell anymore you have to give Popen a pre-parsed
> > command line.
>
> > -- Alain.
>
> Here is the error again
>
> >>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d',stdout=PIPE)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ? File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 494, in __init__
> ? ? raise TypeError("bufsize must be an integer")
> TypeError: bufsize must be an integer
>
> ~Ashok.

Oops i missed the braces. But still no output.


>>> p1=Popen(['/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d'],stdout=PIPE)
>>> while 1:
...  a=p1.stdout.readline()
...  print a
...


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 08:43:50 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:43:50 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c2095$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

apeach a ?crit :
> I love intuitive type recognition.
> 
> no need to 'DIM everything AS Integer' etc.!
> 

not to mention the ever hilarious (that is, when you don't have to 
maintain it) typical Java idiom:

    EveryThing theEveryThing = new EveryThing();



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 08:45:17 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:45:17 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c20eb$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Julian a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
> 
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
> 
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.

My all-time favorite Python feature : it fits my brain.


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Fri Feb  5 08:49:53 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:49:53 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <99F0D2AF-0DAD-457C-B651-0A93A31A37CE@roalddevries.nl>

On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:03 AM, Julian wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
>
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
>
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.
>
> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.

My reasoning: I needed a language more powerful than bash, but more  
portable and faster to develop (at least small scripts) than C/C++. So  
I needed a scripting language. Python, Ruby, Perl, Tcl, ...?

Python seems to be the language with the most libraries available,  
programs written in it, OS-support (even runs on my smartphone), has a  
good data-model, has a good interactive shell (iPython).





From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb  5 08:49:53 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 13:49:53 GMT
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.1950.1265376253.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D168C976DFBAduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Anthra Norell <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:

>> Using pythonw.exe will start the program with all error output dumped in
>> the bit bucket. Running from a command prompt with python.exe will at
>> least let you see if there are any errors. 
>>   
> python.exe from the command line works all right in a DOS window. The 
> problem must be with  idle.pyw. I tried the old idle.pyw (2.4) with the 
> new python.exe. (2.5) and that didn't work either.
> What is the bit bucket? If I had a clue, I could go from there. What 
> puzzles me is that version 2.4 has been working fine and one wouldn't 
> think that the changes from 2.4 to 2.5 would be so extensive as to cause 
> a major malfunction. For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 
> 2.5, though, because it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 
> cannot even use it.

Bit bucket: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_bucket

If you are seeing nothing at all when running it with python.exe instead of 
pythonw.exe then something bizarre must be happening.

My guess would have been that you had a problem importing something: e.g. 
if Tkinter isn't installed properly then running Idle under pythonw.exe 
would exit with an error message but you wouldn't see the error message. 
However since you don't see an error message when running it with 
python.exe it isn't that.

Sorry, I'm out of ideas for now.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:21:05 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:21:05 +0100
Subject: which
Message-ID: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>


if isinstance(cmd, str):
     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
else:
     self.cmd = cmd

or

self.cmd = cmd
if isinstance(cmd, str):
     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)




From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb  5 09:22:03 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:22:03 -0500
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-49F401.09220305022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:57:59 -0500, Lou Pecora wrote:
> 
> > Well, that looks a bit more complicated than I would like, but maybe
> > it's doing more stuff than I can grok.  Here's what I needed and how I
> > did it in Python:
> [...]
> > # Reading same list in:
> > instr=fp.readline()
> > inlist=eval(instr)
> > x1,y1,astr1,z1= inlist
> > 
> > 
> > That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous
> > collection of variables. 
> 
> Easy, but also quick and dirty -- good enough for small scripts, but not 
> really good enough for production applications.
> 
> 
> > I can add more variables, shuffle the order,
> > whatever without messing with formatting, etc. 
> 
> This is nice and easy. But there are at least four catches:
> 
> 
> * you can't safely treat the data file as human-editable
> (although a sufficiently careful and Python-aware user could edit it)
> 
> * you can't use any data that isn't a built-in, or that contains 
> something that is not a built-in
> 
> * there may be reliability issues with floats - you're at the mercy of 
> changes to the underlying repr of float objects, and it almost certainly 
> will blow up in your face if you get an inf or nan (at least prior to 
> Python 2.6)
> 
> * you're using eval, which is a security risk if you can't trust the 
> source of the data file.
> 
> However, be aware that neither marshal nor pickle guarantees to be safe 
> against malicious data either. The docs for both warn against using them 
> on untrusted data. YAML or JSON *might* be safer, I haven't looked.

I understand where you are coming from: Production Code.  I was just 
making a point about Python and my code is only used by me.  I can edit 
the file for the simple I/O I do.  I am not recommending this way for 
everyone. Just an example.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From gdementen at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:25:02 2010
From: gdementen at gmail.com (Gaetan de Menten)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:25:02 +0100
Subject: Pickling an extension type subclasses problems
Message-ID: <b777f2e01002050625j48ebcf9fl80dfa6e68ccee0e5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am trying to write an (optional!) C extension for SQLAlchemy, and I
am struggling to make an extension type picklable *and* using the same
format as the pure Python version (so that computers with the C
extension can unpickle pickles from computers without it and
vice-versa). Also the extension type (MyBase in the example code
below) only serves as a base class for the type that get pickled
(MyPythonType). MyPythonType also has further subclasses and those
should be picklable too.

My setup is as follow:

On the Python side:
================

try:
    from cextension import MyBase
except ImportError:
    class MyBase(object):
        __slots__ = ('a', 'b', 'c')
        def __init__(self, a, b, c):
            self.a, self.b, self.c = a, b, c

        def __getstate__(self):
            ...

        def __setstate__(self, state):
            ...
        ...


class MyPythonType(MyBase):
    ...

On the .c side:
===========
I implemented a reduce method, which returns

Py_BuildValue("(O(s)N)", Py_TYPE(self), "__state__", state);

and in my BaseRowProxy_init method, I check the number of arguments,
whether the "__state__" marker is present and unpack the state if it
is. This makes the type nicely pickleable, but this is obviously not
the same "pickle format" as the Python version.

What would you recommend in this kind of situation? I'm a bit tired of
trial and error... My last hope is to define __reduce__ on the Python
side too, and make it use a module-level "reconstructor" function as
follow:

def mypythontype_reconstructor(cls, state):
    obj = object.__new__(cls, state):
    ....
    return obj

Will this work? Any other idea?

Thanks in advance,
-- 
Ga?tan de Menten


From killy.draw at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:25:05 2010
From: killy.draw at gmail.com (KDr2)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:25:05 +0800
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <2eebcba81002050625s28b4a51dj5e67bf182601c2c4@mail.gmail.com>

cmd= isinstance(cmd,str) and c.replace('${ADDR}',ip) or cmd


Best Regards,
     -- KDr2 http://kdr2.net




On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:21 PM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>    self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>    self.cmd = cmd
>
> or
>
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>    self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 09:30:11 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:30:11 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkha1q$con$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> 
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>     self.cmd = cmd
> 
> or
> 
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> 
> 
My own preference is for the latter, but I am sure you will find that
opinions are mixed on this. In recent versions of Python you might want
to take the possibility that cmd is Unicode into account by using

  id isinstance(cmd, basestring):

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From tgrav at me.com  Fri Feb  5 09:31:02 2010
From: tgrav at me.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:31:02 -0500
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available
In-Reply-To: <D44D6DB5-DB59-4AEE-B359-40A5D66FAAD7@activestate.com>
References: <D44D6DB5-DB59-4AEE-B359-40A5D66FAAD7@activestate.com>
Message-ID: <C39018A0-AA67-4AA7-B230-9E380A08AE01@me.com>


On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:01 AM, Sridhar Ratnakumar wrote:

> I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available for download from:

> On what platforms does ActivePython run?
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:
> 
> - Windows/x86
> - Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
> - Mac OS X

Is the Mac OS X version still only 32 bit? If so does ActiveState plan to make binaries for 64bit builds
for Snow Leopard?

Cheers
  Tommy
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 09:41:34 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:41:34 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
>
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>     self.cmd = cmd
>
> or
>
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>
>
I would vote for the first one. But I could use the second as well, I 
would'nt fight for it.

What is worrying me the most in your code sample is that self.cmd can 
hold diferrent types (str, and something else). That is usually a bad 
thing to do (putting None aside).
However, my remark could be totally irrelevant of course, that depends 
on the context.

JM



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 09:42:44 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:42:44 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4b6c20eb$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6c20eb$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6C2E64.2080205@sequans.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Julian a ?crit :
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
>> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
>> "hidden features of Python".
>>
>> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
>> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
>> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
>> use python?".
>>
>> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
>> popular and beloved python features.
>
> My all-time favorite Python feature : it fits my brain.
Python is simple ... no offense Bruno :D

JM

(sorry couldn't help)


From bradallen137 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:57:18 2010
From: bradallen137 at gmail.com (bradallen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 06:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
Message-ID: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

For container class derived from namedtuple, but which also behaves
like a dictionary by implementing __getitem__ for non-integer index
values, is there a special reserved method which allows intercepting %
string formatting operations? I would like for my container type to
behave appropriately depending on whether the string formatting
operation has a string like this :

"whatever %s yadayada" % mycontainer  # needs to act like a tuple

"whatever %(key)s yadayada" % mycontainer  # needs to act like a
dictionary

I looked through the Python data model docs at <http://docs.python.org/
reference/datamodel.html#emulating-container-types> but only found
this:

"If the left operand of a % operator is a string or Unicode object, no
coercion takes place and the string formatting operation is invoked
instead."

Thanks!



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:15:59 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:15:59 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> What is worrying me the most in your code sample is that self.cmd can 
> hold diferrent types (str, and something else). That is usually a bad 
> thing to do (putting None aside).
> However, my remark could be totally irrelevant of course, that depends 
> on the context.

That's a valid criticism - but I do not know how to handle this 
otherwise really, because the program can be called with "cmd" to run, 
or a script to run (or a directory to copy) and in those cases cmd is None.

I guess I could use

if cmd:
	self.cmd = ...


But. Suppose that under some circumstances cmd is not string. What then?

I know that isinstance is typically not recommended, but I don't see 
better solution here.


Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:21:30 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:21:30 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <2eebcba81002050625s28b4a51dj5e67bf182601c2c4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<2eebcba81002050625s28b4a51dj5e67bf182601c2c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkhd01$nr9$1@ger.gmane.org>

KDr2 wrote:
> cmd= isinstance(cmd,str) and c.replace('${ADDR}',ip) or cmd

Perlish, but I like that. :-)

Regards,
mk



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb  5 10:24:04 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:24:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkhd6k$96p$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-04, Julian <mailings at julianmoritz.de> wrote:

> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and
> to make it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the
> stackoverflow-thread "hidden features of Python".
>
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the
> local usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years
> there were some people that came to the python-table just to
> ask "why should I use python?".
>
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes
> the most popular and beloved python features.

In the fine old tradition:



                Python:  It sucks less.

                
                      A lot less.

                      
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! You should all JUMP
                                  at               UP AND DOWN for TWO HOURS
                               visi.com            while I decide on a NEW
                                                   CAREER!!


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:25:42 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:25:42 +0100
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
Message-ID: <hkhd7t$opq$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

I have a problem with a threaded program: it frequently hangs on sys.exit.

The problem is that my program uses threads which in turn use paramiko 
library, which itself is threaded.

I try to gracefully close the threads (below), but it doesn't always 
work, if paramiko calls happen to be at stage of negotiating ssh 
connection or smth similar.

The only workable solution I have is a program sending itself SIGKILL, 
which makes it terminated by OS (I think so).

Is there any way to brutally close the threads? I know that normally 
that should not be done, but shutdown when you don't care about writing 
out to disk is the only situation where it doesn't apply.

def ctrlchandler(signal, frame):
     print
     print ENDC + "Terminating on Ctrl-C, closing threads for:",
     while queue:
         for ip, th in queue:
             print ip,
             try:
                 lock.acquire()
                 th.abort = True
                 lock.release()
             except RuntimeError:
                 pass
             queue.remove((ip,th))
     print
     pid = os.getpid()
     print "Finished closing threads."
     # suicide - it's the only way of preventing frequent hangup on sys.exit
     os.kill(pid, SIGTERM)
     os.kill(pid, SIGKILL)
     sys.exit(0)



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 10:28:25 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:28:25 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>
	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>
>> What is worrying me the most in your code sample is that self.cmd can 
>> hold diferrent types (str, and something else). That is usually a bad 
>> thing to do (putting None aside).
>> However, my remark could be totally irrelevant of course, that 
>> depends on the context.
>
> That's a valid criticism - but I do not know how to handle this 
> otherwise really, because the program can be called with "cmd" to run, 
> or a script to run (or a directory to copy) and in those cases cmd is 
> None.
>
> I guess I could use
>
> if cmd:
>     self.cmd = ...
>
>
> But. Suppose that under some circumstances cmd is not string. What then?
>
> I know that isinstance is typically not recommended, but I don't see 
> better solution here.
>
>
> Regards,
> mk
>
>
If you can change your program interface, then do it, if not then you're 
right you don't have much choice as you are suffering from the program 
poor interface.
You can fix this problem by explicitly asking for the thing you want to 
do, instead of guessing by inspecting the argument nature.

myProg --help

usage : myProg command [args]
    command list:
       - cmd: execute the given <arg1> command line
       - exec: execute the given script file named <arg1>
       - copy: copy <arg1> to <arg2>

example:
 >myProg cmd "echo that's cool"
 >myProg exec /etc/init.d/myDaemon
 >myProg copy /tmp /tmp2

JM


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb  5 10:39:48 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:39:48 -0800
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
Message-ID: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each point is a 
line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing the direction of 
motion. There should be x-y coordinates axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb  5 10:42:13 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:42:13 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>

On 2/5/2010 9:21 AM, mk wrote:
>
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>     self.cmd = cmd
>
> or
>
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>
>

(lunatic fringe?)

Last August [1], I offered this alternative:

   self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
               if isinstance(cmd, str) else
               cmd)

But it didn't get much love in this forum!


[1] 
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6876917a4d579d59/1f700586f4c4614d?lnk=gst&q=Posner#1f700586f4c4614d


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 10:49:00 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:00 +0100
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
In-Reply-To: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C3DEC.9030109@sequans.com>

bradallen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> For container class derived from namedtuple, but which also behaves
> like a dictionary by implementing __getitem__ for non-integer index
> values, is there a special reserved method which allows intercepting %
> string formatting operations? I would like for my container type to
> behave appropriately depending on whether the string formatting
> operation has a string like this :
>
> "whatever %s yadayada" % mycontainer  # needs to act like a tuple
>
> "whatever %(key)s yadayada" % mycontainer  # needs to act like a
> dictionary
>
> I looked through the Python data model docs at <http://docs.python.org/
> reference/datamodel.html#emulating-container-types> but only found
> this:
>
> "If the left operand of a % operator is a string or Unicode object, no
> coercion takes place and the string formatting operation is invoked
> instead."
>
> Thanks!
>
>   
class toto:
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        return 'paf'
    def __str__(self):
        return 'pif'
    def toTuple(self):
        return (1,2,3)


1/ print '%s %s %s' % toto().toTuple()
'1 2 3'
2/ print '%(key)s ' % toto()
'paf'
3/ print '%s' % toto()
'pif'


1/ I don't know how to spare the explicit toTuple conversion, supporting 
tuple() would be tedious
2/ thanks to __getitem__ (duck typing)
3/ thanks to __str__

Anyway why would you want to use the tuple form ? it's beaten in every 
aspect by the dictionary form.


JM

"If you need something call me, I'll tell you how to live without it" 
(Coluche, about politicians)


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 10:49:08 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:08 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1957.1265380975.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4b6c20eb$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1957.1265380975.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c3df3$0$23914$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>
>> My all-time favorite Python feature : it fits my brain.
> Python is simple ... no offense Bruno :D

!-)

But FWIW, that's exactly the point : even a stoopid like me can manage 
to learn and use Python, and proceed to write working apps without 
spending more time reading the doc than actually solving the problem.


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb  5 10:49:22 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:22 +0100
Subject: which
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkheku$ms1$00$1@news.t-online.com>

mk wrote:

> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>      self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>      self.cmd = cmd
> 
> or
> 
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>      self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)

Neither.

self.cmd = cmd
self.ip = ip
...
subprocess.call(self.cmd, shell=True, env=dict(ADDR=self.ip))

Please spend a bit more energy on a descriptive subject and an unambiguous 
exposition of your problem (in English rather than code) next time.

Peter



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:52:19 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:52:19 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> If you can change your program interface, then do it, if not then you're 
> right you don't have much choice as you are suffering from the program 
> poor interface.
> You can fix this problem by explicitly asking for the thing you want to 
> do, instead of guessing by inspecting the argument nature.
> 
> myProg --help
> 
> usage : myProg command [args]
>    command list:
>       - cmd: execute the given <arg1> command line
>       - exec: execute the given script file named <arg1>
>       - copy: copy <arg1> to <arg2>
> 
> example:
>  >myProg cmd "echo that's cool"
>  >myProg exec /etc/init.d/myDaemon
>  >myProg copy /tmp /tmp2
> 

I sure can change the interface since I'm the author of the entire 
program. But I don't see how I can arrange program in a different way: 
the program is supposed to be called with -c parameter (command to run), 
-s script to run, or -y file_or_dir_to_copy.

Then, I start instances of SSHThread class to do precisely that, 
separately for each ip/hostname:


class SSHThread(threading.Thread):
     def __init__(self, lock, cmd, ip, username, sshprivkey=None, 
passw=None, port=22, script=None, remotedir=None):

         threading.Thread.__init__(self)

         self.lock = lock
         if isinstance(cmd, str):
             self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
         else:
             self.cmd = cmd
         self.ip = ip
         self.username = username
         self.sshprivkey = sshprivkey
         self.passw = passw
         self.port = port
         self.conobj = None
         self.conerror = ''
         self.msgstr = ''
         self.confailed = True
         if script:
             self.setpathinfo(script, remotedir=remotedir)
         self.sentbytes = 0
         self.finished = False
         self.abort = False

It gets called like this:

th = SSHThread(lock, opts.cmd, ip, username=username, 
sshprivkey=opts.key, passw=passw, port=port, script=opts.script, 
remotedir=opts.remotedir)


..where all the options are parsed by ConfigParser.OptionParser(). So 
they are either strings, or Nones.

So in this context this is fine. But I wanted to make the class more 
robust. Perhaps I should do smth like this before setting self.cmd?

assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, "cmd should be string 
or None"

and then:

if cmd:
	self.cmd = cmd.replace..


?

Entire source code is here:

http://python.domeny.com/cssh.py

regards,
mk









From dthole at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:53:33 2010
From: dthole at gmail.com (David Thole)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:53:33 -0600
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2sk9fllvm.fsf@dhcpw80ff9506.dynamic.uiowa.edu>

I read this....and am a tiny bit confused about the actual problem.

It's not exactly complex to realize that something like:
a = b = array
that a and b both point to the array.

Logically speaking, I'm not sure how one could assume that the same
assignment would yield a and b point to the same duplicate array.  If
that was the case, why not do:
a = array..
b = array..

I know with what you were complaining about a few days ago, .clear makes
perfect sense.  If a and b point to the same array, clear should clear
both arrays.  Again, if you didn't want that to happen, create a
duplicate array.

Personally I feel that this complexity doesn't hamper programming
process, and yes while its good for efficiency it also just makes sense.

Also, I wouldn't look at PHP on the right way to do something
programming wise.  I have ~5 years experience in this language, and I
dislike it a whole lot.  There's a lot of things it should do right that
it doesn't out of convenience.

-David
www.thedarktrumpet.com



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 10:54:18 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:54:18 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4B6C3F2A.1070108@sequans.com>

John Posner wrote:
> On 2/5/2010 9:21 AM, mk wrote:
>>
>> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>> else:
>>     self.cmd = cmd
>>
>> or
>>
>> self.cmd = cmd
>> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>>
>>
>
> (lunatic fringe?)
>
> Last August [1], I offered this alternative:
>
>   self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>               if isinstance(cmd, str) else
>               cmd)
>
> But it didn't get much love in this forum!
>
>
> [1] 
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6876917a4d579d59/1f700586f4c4614d?lnk=gst&q=Posner#1f700586f4c4614d 
>
Heresy !

JM


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb  5 10:55:17 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 07:55:17 -0800
Subject: list.extend([]) Question
References: <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57 at b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
Dan Brown  <fsenzeru at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Why does extending a list with the empty list result in None?  It
>seems very counterintuitive to me, at least --- I expected ['a'].extend
>([]) to result in ['a'], not None.

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general/#why-doesn-t-list-sort-return-the-sorted-list
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 11:02:37 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:02:37 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1968.1265385115.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1968.1265385115.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c411b$0$20638$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
(snip)
> So in this context this is fine. But I wanted to make the class more 
> robust. Perhaps I should do smth like this before setting self.cmd?
> 
> assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, "cmd should be string 
> or None"
> 
> and then:
> 
> if cmd:
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace..

And what if cmd happens to be the empty string ?-)

ok, me --->[]


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 11:03:28 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:03:28 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
Message-ID: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>

Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
structures ?

I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not exist.

Let say I have this very simple class:

class Point:
    def __init__(self, x, y):
    self.x = x
    self.y = y


I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)

I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
pointing me in the right direction.

JM



From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:06:52 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:06:52 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002050806n207d7784p144819c8af4c57cb@mail.gmail.com>

[snip]

> Last August [1], I offered this alternative:
>
> ?self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if isinstance(cmd, str) else
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?cmd)
>
> But it didn't get much love in this forum!

I'd probably go for that one as well though I might consider removing
the outer parentheses.

-- 
Gerald Britton


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 11:07:52 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:07:52 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c4256$0$21794$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> 
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>     self.cmd = cmd

What could "cmd" be except a string ? From other posts here, I guess 
it's either a string or None ? If yes, then I'd go for this:

if cmd:
   cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)

self.cmd = cmd





From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb  5 11:17:15 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:17:15 -0800
Subject: How Uninstall MatPlotLib?
Message-ID: <hkhgae$o1b$1@news.eternal-september.org>

See Subject.


From andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:21:47 2010
From: andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com (Andrew Degtiariov)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:21:47 +0200
Subject: Import question
Message-ID: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>

Code of our project has split into several packages and we deploy the
project using buildout.
All worked fine until I need to dynamically inspect python modules.

Here is structure of our src directory


????project.api.config
?   ????project
?   ?   ????api
?   ?       ????config
?   ?           ????settings
?   ????project.api.config.egg-info
????project.api.contacts
?   ????project
?   ?   ????api
?   ?       ????contacts
?   ?           ????importer
?   ?           ????views
?   ????project.api.contacts.egg-info
????project.api.core
?   ????project
?   ?   ????api
?   ?       ????core
?   ?           ????js
?   ?           ????lib
?   ?           ????management
?   ?           ?   ????commands
?   ?           ????middleware
?   ?           ????sessions
?   ?           ????users
?   ????project.api.core.egg-info


Buildout by itself generates bin/python which look like:
import sys

sys.path[0:0] = [
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\src\\project.api.core',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\src\\project.api.config',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\src\\project.api.contacts',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\eggs\\lockfile-0.8-py2.6.egg',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\parts\\django',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\eggs\\web.py-0.33-py2.6.egg',
....

Regular code like "import project.api.config" worked fine, but now I'm tryed
__import__('project.api.config'):

$ bin/python

>>> import project.api.config
>>> __import__('project.api.config')
<module 'project from
'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>
>>>

What's wrong?
Ok, I'm trying imp:
>>> import imp
>>> imp.find_module('project.api.config')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named project.api.config
>>> import sys
>>> sys.path[1]
'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\src\\project.api.config'
>>> imp.find_module('project.api.config', sys.path[1])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No frozen submodule named
c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.config.project.api.config
>>>

There is setup.py for project.api.config:

import os
from setuptools import setup, find_packages

name = "project.api.config"
install_requires = [
        'zc.buildout',
        'setuptools',
        'web.py>=0.33',
        'project.api.core',
        'Django>=1.1.0',
        'lockfile'
]

if sys.platform != 'win32':
    install_requires.append('python-daemon')

setup(
    name = name,
    version = "1.0",
    author = "Andrew Degtiariov",
    author_email = "andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com",
    description = "...",
    license = "Commercial",
    packages=find_packages(os.path.dirname(__file__), exclude=['ez_setup']),
    namespace_packages=['project, 'project.api'],
    include_package_data=True,
    zip_safe=False,
    install_requires = install_requires
)

What's wrong? We really need to split the code for several eggs and want
that all of our package's names starts from 'project.api'

--
Andrew Degtiariov
DA-RIPE
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From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb  5 11:22:56 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:22:56 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
	<mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C45E0.1000309@optimum.net>

On 2/5/2010 11:06 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> Last August [1], I offered this alternative:
>>
>>   self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>>               if isinstance(cmd, str) else
>>               cmd)
>>
>> But it didn't get much love in this forum!
>
> I'd probably go for that one as well though I might consider removing
> the outer parentheses.

Agreed ... except that you *need* the outer parentheses if the statement 
occupies multiple source lines.

-John




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb  5 11:23:57 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 08:23:57 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1885.1265261952.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkfo3s$5bc$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.1944.1265367378.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkhgmt$gav$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1944.1265367378.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 4 Feb 2010 16:18:04 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>> 
>> But in bash scripting, you'd just use rsync or cp or rm -- maybe an
>> example would make clearer how REXX differs from bash.
>
>	I suspect the only really good examples would have to written under
>OS/VMS (where it originated, written to be a more powerful & friendlier
>replacement for the EXEC scripting language) or AmigaOS -- to
>demonstrate the switching interaction of command handlers. REXX
>implementations for Windows and Linux pretty much only support the
>"shell" as a command handler, whereas the two named OS could address
>editors (and on the Amiga, word processors, desktop publishing programs,
>terminal emulators/comm programs, system editor).
>
>	My Amiga's been in storage since Win95 days, so this is a fictitious
>example based on the reference manuals.
>
>address command	/* use normal command shell to process commands */
>file = 'some.file'
>'run ed' file	/* start ED editor in background, editing 'file'*/
>address ED	/* send commands to the ED instance */
>'b'		/* go to bottom of file */
>'i /text to be inserted before bottom line/'
>'t'		/* to to top */
>'a /text inserted after first line/'
>find = 'needle'
>replace = 'thorn'
>'rpe /' || find || '/' || replace '/'
>'x'	/* save & exit */
>address command
>'type' file		/* type file to screen */
>'filenote' file "edited via AREXX script"

IOW, kinda like AppleScript?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:27:35 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:27:35 +0100
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkhgru$6a8$1@ger.gmane.org>

W. eWatson wrote:
> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each point is a 
> line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing the direction of 
> motion. There should be x-y coordinates axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??

Pycairo?



From jarausch at skynet.be  Fri Feb  5 11:31:08 2010
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:31:08 +0100
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
In-Reply-To: <e8538cbc-a0db-4606-870b-37eeeaaa7410@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87636bn8jw.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<4ae7195a-d3ec-4886-9123-de88641aa797@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<e8538cbc-a0db-4606-870b-37eeeaaa7410@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c47cb$0$2865$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

On 02/05/10 14:39, Ashok Prabhu wrote:
> On Feb 5, 6:33 pm, Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 5, 5:58 pm, Alain Ketterlin <al... at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>>
>>>>> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>>
>>>>> -- Alain.
>>>> Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
>>>> below.
>>
>>>>>>> from subprocess import *
>>>>>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)
>>
>>> You forgot to change the monolithic command into a list of words. Since
>>> you don't use the shell anymore you have to give Popen a pre-parsed
>>> command line.
>>
>>> -- Alain.
>>
>> Here is the error again
>>
>>>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d',stdout=PIPE)
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 494, in __init__
>>     raise TypeError("bufsize must be an integer")
>> TypeError: bufsize must be an integer
>>
>> ~Ashok.
> 
> Oops i missed the braces. But still no output.
> 
> 
>>>> p1=Popen(['/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d'],stdout=PIPE)
>>>> while 1:
> ...  a=p1.stdout.readline()
> ...  print a
> ...

I've tried

#!/usr/bin/python
import subprocess
p1= subprocess.Popen(['/bin/ls','/LOCAL/'],stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
for line in p1.stdout :
  print ">>>",line

which works just fine.

Are you sure, your /usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk writes a newline character (readline is waiting for that)?

Helmut.

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:31:52 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:31:52 -0500
Subject: list.extend([]) Question
In-Reply-To: <hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002050831r6233b751mcbc5f55fb9a2c1b4@mail.gmail.com>

I think it's because when you do ['a'].extend([]) or whatever, the
result is whatever the method "extend" returns.  But "extend" has no
return value, hence you will see None if you do this interactively.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> In article <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57 at b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> Dan Brown ?<fsenzeru at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Why does extending a list with the empty list result in None? ?It
>>seems very counterintuitive to me, at least --- I expected ['a'].extend
>>([]) to result in ['a'], not None.
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general/#why-doesn-t-list-sort-return-the-sorted-list
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ? http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> import antigravity
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:34:13 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:34:13 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4b6c411b$0$20638$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>	<mailman.1968.1265385115.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c411b$0$20638$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hkhh8c$8qc$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> if cmd:
>>     self.cmd = cmd.replace..
> 
> And what if cmd happens to be the empty string ?-)
> 
> ok, me --->[]

Right, I didn't think much when I wrote that. Anyway, that's back to 
square one.

I will probably go for this anyway:

         assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, 'cmd has to 
be string or None'
         if cmd:
             cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
         self.cmd = cmd



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 11:40:38 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:40:38 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
	<hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C4A06.6010700@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> If you can change your program interface, then do it, if not then 
>> you're right you don't have much choice as you are suffering from the 
>> program poor interface.
>> You can fix this problem by explicitly asking for the thing you want 
>> to do, instead of guessing by inspecting the argument nature.
>>
>> myProg --help
>>
>> usage : myProg command [args]
>>    command list:
>>       - cmd: execute the given <arg1> command line
>>       - exec: execute the given script file named <arg1>
>>       - copy: copy <arg1> to <arg2>
>>
>> example:
>>  >myProg cmd "echo that's cool"
>>  >myProg exec /etc/init.d/myDaemon
>>  >myProg copy /tmp /tmp2
>>
>
> I sure can change the interface since I'm the author of the entire 
> program. But I don't see how I can arrange program in a different way: 
> the program is supposed to be called with -c parameter (command to 
> run), -s script to run, or -y file_or_dir_to_copy.
>
> Then, I start instances of SSHThread class to do precisely that, 
> separately for each ip/hostname:
>
>
> class SSHThread(threading.Thread):
>     def __init__(self, lock, cmd, ip, username, sshprivkey=None, 
> passw=None, port=22, script=None, remotedir=None):
>
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>
>         self.lock = lock
>         if isinstance(cmd, str):
>             self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>         else:
>             self.cmd = cmd
>         self.ip = ip
>         self.username = username
>         self.sshprivkey = sshprivkey
>         self.passw = passw
>         self.port = port
>         self.conobj = None
>         self.conerror = ''
>         self.msgstr = ''
>         self.confailed = True
>         if script:
>             self.setpathinfo(script, remotedir=remotedir)
>         self.sentbytes = 0
>         self.finished = False
>         self.abort = False
>
> It gets called like this:
>
> th = SSHThread(lock, opts.cmd, ip, username=username, 
> sshprivkey=opts.key, passw=passw, port=port, script=opts.script, 
> remotedir=opts.remotedir)
>
>
> ..where all the options are parsed by ConfigParser.OptionParser(). So 
> they are either strings, or Nones.
>
> So in this context this is fine. But I wanted to make the class more 
> robust. Perhaps I should do smth like this before setting self.cmd?
>
> assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, "cmd should be 
> string or None"
>
> and then:
>
> if cmd:
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace..
>
>
> ?
>
> Entire source code is here:
>
> http://python.domeny.com/cssh.py
>
> regards,
> mk
>

To be honest I have not enough courrage to dive into yout 1000 lines of 
script :-)

What I can say however:

1/ your interface is somehow broken. You ask actions through options (-c 
-y -s), meaning one can possibly use all these 3 options  together. Your 
code won't handle it (you are using elif statements). What happens if I 
use no option at all ? As the the optparse doc states : if an option is 
not optional, then it is not an option (it's a positional argument).

2/ executing a script, or copying a directory are both commands as well.
myProg -s /tmp/myscript.sh
is nothing more than
myProg -c '/bin/sh myscript.sh'

myProg -y file1
is nothing more than
myProg -c 'cp file1 towhatever'

3/ check your user parameters before creating your SSHThread, and create 
your SSHThread with already validated parameters. You don't want to 
pollute you SSHThread code with irrelevant user error check.


my humble conclusion:

1/ rewrite your interface with
prog command args [options]

2/ Simplify your SSHThread by handling only  shell commands

3/ at the CLI level (right after parameter validation), mute you copy & 
script
command to a shell command and pass it to SSHThread.

Cheers,

JM



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 11:42:43 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:42:43 +0100
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <hkhgru$6a8$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkhgru$6a8$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C4A83.7080802@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> W. eWatson wrote:
>> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each point 
>> is a line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing the direction 
>> of motion. There should be x-y coordinates axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??
>
> Pycairo?
>
turtle

http://docs.python.org/library/turtle.html


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 11:44:02 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:44:02 +0100
Subject: list.extend([]) Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1974.1265387514.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.1974.1265387514.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c4ad0$0$23943$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Gerald Britton a ?crit :
> I think it's because when you do ['a'].extend([]) or whatever, the
> result is whatever the method "extend" returns.  But "extend" has no
> return value

It does : it returns None.



From jurgenex at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:48:29 2010
From: jurgenex at hotmail.com (Jürgen Exner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:48:29 -0800
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2sk9fllvm.fsf@dhcpw80ff9506.dynamic.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <b1iom59726rj1qdd197u2dd2rd71bjdid1@4ax.com>

David Thole <dthole at gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>I read this....and am a tiny bit confused about the actual problem.
>
>It's not exactly complex to realize that something like:
>a = b = array
>that a and b both point to the array.

???
What are you talking about? First of all you should post actual code,
not pseudo-code because pseudo-code leads to misunderstandings. Did you
mean
	@a = @b = @array

Second what do you mean by "pointing"? That is a very ambiguous term. if
you do the assignment as written above then @a and @b will be _copies_
of @array. If you want two additional references to the same array
insted then you have to create that reference first and assign that
reference to $a and $b instead of copying the array, see "perldoc
perlref" for details. And remember, references are scalars, no matter if
they reference other scalars or arrays.

>Logically speaking, I'm not sure how one could assume that the same
>assignment would yield a and b point to the same duplicate array.  If

Now what? The same array or a duplicate array? Two very different and
mutually exclusive things.

>that was the case, why not do:
>a = array..
>b = array..

Which, after correcting the obvious syntax errors is the same as the
code above.

>I know with what you were complaining about a few days ago, .clear makes
>perfect sense.  If a and b point to the same array, clear should clear

They don't point, they are copies. And what do you mean by "clear"?

>both arrays.  Again, if you didn't want that to happen, create a
>duplicate array.

But that is what that code above does. If you want references then
create references.

jue


From sridharr at activestate.com  Fri Feb  5 11:50:10 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:50:10 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available
In-Reply-To: <C39018A0-AA67-4AA7-B230-9E380A08AE01@me.com>
References: <D44D6DB5-DB59-4AEE-B359-40A5D66FAAD7@activestate.com>
	<C39018A0-AA67-4AA7-B230-9E380A08AE01@me.com>
Message-ID: <7E38E471-25C3-49C9-B27F-2D4F0B355290@activestate.com>


On 2010-02-05, at 6:31 AM, Tommy Grav wrote:

> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:01 AM, Sridhar Ratnakumar wrote:
> 
>> I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available for download from:
> 
>> On what platforms does ActivePython run?
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 
>> ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:
>> 
>> - Windows/x86
>> - Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
>> - Mac OS X
> 
> Is the Mac OS X version still only 32 bit?

Yes.

> If so does ActiveState plan to make binaries for 64bit builds
> for Snow Leopard?

No concrete plans yet, but we do intend to make 64 bit for Mac available eventually.

-srid

-------------- next part --------------
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From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb  5 11:51:31 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:51:31 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002050826h190c4d74y539745e7c855f1ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
	<mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C45E0.1000309@optimum.net>
	<5d1a32001002050826h190c4d74y539745e7c855f1ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C4C93.3050602@optimum.net>

On 2/5/2010 11:26 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
> sure, but it will fit nicely on one line if you like
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, John Posner<jjposner at optimum.net>  wrote:
>    
>> On 2/5/2010 11:06 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
>>      
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Last August [1], I offered this alternative:
>>>>
>>>>   self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>>>>               if isinstance(cmd, str) else
>>>>               cmd)
>>>>
>>>> But it didn't get much love in this forum!
>>>>          
>>> I'd probably go for that one as well though I might consider removing
>>> the outer parentheses.
>>>        
>> Agreed ... except that you *need* the outer parentheses if the statement
>> occupies multiple source lines.
>>
>> -John
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>
>
>    
Did you mean to take this off-list?  Also, I'm contractually obligated 
to admonish you not to "top post".

At any rate, I proposed the 3-line format specifically because it 
separates the data values from the if-then-else machinery, making it 
easier (for me) to read. But there was considerable resistance to 
spending so much vertical space in the source code.

-John



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Fri Feb  5 11:52:57 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:52:57 -0500
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <1265388777.3112.7.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 17:03 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
> implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
> structures ?
> I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not exist.
> Let say I have this very simple class:
> class Point:
>     def __init__(self, x, y):
>     self.x = x
>     self.y = y

You have to be more specific about what you want to do; "marshall" is a
fairly generic term.  XML-RPC isn't CORBA; typically you don't remote
persistent objects you just make individual calls.

> I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
> 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
> 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
> Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
> class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
> I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
> pointing me in the right direction.

You can use the loads and dumps methods to process the XML-RPC call
anyway you like.
<http://coils.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/coils/coils/file/22c023c8e0f5/src/coils/net/xmlrpc.py>
-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:53:33 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:53:33 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4C93.3050602@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
	<mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C45E0.1000309@optimum.net>
	<5d1a32001002050826h190c4d74y539745e7c855f1ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6C4C93.3050602@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002050853s4621ca0dy9976609813cc4e3@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Did you mean to take this off-list?

Nope -- just hit the wrong key

?Also, I'm contractually obligated to
> admonish you not to "top post".

Contract?

>
> At any rate, I proposed the 3-line format specifically because it separates
> the data values from the if-then-else machinery, making it easier (for me)
> to read. But there was considerable resistance to spending so much vertical
> space in the source code.

Weird!  It's three lines and the original was four lines was it not>?

-- 
Gerald Britton


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:56:44 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:56:44 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhiij$d55$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

Why not dump the whole thing and use Pyro, which works beautifully and 
handles all the serialization business by itself, you get a Python 
object on the other side? Unless xmlrpc has to be at the other end, that is.




From giles.thomas at resolversystems.com  Fri Feb  5 12:04:10 2010
From: giles.thomas at resolversystems.com (Giles Thomas)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:04:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: Resolver One 1.8 released
Message-ID: <mailman.2039.1265465745.28905.python-announce-list@python.org>

We're proud to announce that we've just released version 1.8 of
Resolver One.  This version switches to IronPython 2.6, which gives us
support for Python 2.6 syntax along with some serious performance
improvements.

Resolver One is a Windows-based spreadsheet that integrates Python
deeply into its recalculation loop, making the models you build more
reliable and more maintainable.

In version 1.8, we've worked hard on improving performance above and
beyond the gains we got from IronPython 2.6, and we've also added a
number of new statistical functions, along with various minor bugfixes
and smaller enhancements.

You can read more about Resolver One here:

  <http://www.resolversystems.com/products/resolver-one/>

We have a 31-day free trial version, so if you would like to take a
look, you can download it from our website:

  <http://www.resolversystems.com/download/>

If you want to use Resolver One in an Open Source project, we offer
free licenses for that:

  <http://www.resolversystems.com/opensource/>


Best regards,

Giles
--
Giles Thomas
giles.thomas at resolversystems.com
+44 (0) 20 7253 6372

17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK
VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79
Registered in England and Wales as company number 5467329.
Registered address: 843 Finchley Road, London NW11 8NA, UK


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:07:11 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:07:11 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4A06.6010700@sequans.com>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>	<hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6C4A06.6010700@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhj66$gd2$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

 > To be honest I have not enough courrage to dive into yout 1000 lines of
 > script :-)

Understandable.

 > What I can say however:
 >
 > 1/ your interface is somehow broken. You ask actions through options (-c
 > -y -s), meaning one can possibly use all these 3 options  together. Your
 > code won't handle it (you are using elif statements). What happens if I
 > use no option at all ?

You get this:

Linux RH [17:35] root ~ # cssh.py -c "ps|wc" -s /tmp/s.sh

Following options that you specified are mutually exclusive:
-s / --script (value: /tmp/s.sh)
-c / --cmd (value: ps|wc)
You have to specify exactly one of options -c / --cmd, or -s / --script, 
or -y / --copy.

I wrote additional logic to handle such situations, I don't rely 
entirely on optparse.

 > 2/ executing a script, or copying a directory are both commands as well.
 > myProg -s /tmp/myscript.sh
 > is nothing more than
 > myProg -c '/bin/sh myscript.sh'

True. But you have to copy the script to remote machine in the first 
place. It's more convenient to do this using one option (copy to remote 
machine & execute there).

 > myProg -y file1
 > is nothing more than
 > myProg -c 'cp file1 towhatever'

Err but this is command to copy a local file/dir to *remote* machine. 
Like scp (in fact it uses scp protocol internally).

 >
 > 3/ check your user parameters before creating your SSHThread, and create
 > your SSHThread with already validated parameters. You don't want to
 > pollute you SSHThread code with irrelevant user error check.
 >
 >
 > my humble conclusion:
 >
 > 1/ rewrite your interface with
 > prog command args [options]
 >
 > 2/ Simplify your SSHThread by handling only  shell commands
 >
 > 3/ at the CLI level (right after parameter validation), mute you copy &
 > script
 > command to a shell command and pass it to SSHThread.
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 > JM
 >
 >



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:08:40 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:08:40 +0100
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4A83.7080802@sequans.com>
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkhgru$6a8$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6C4A83.7080802@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhj8v$gd2$2@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> mk wrote:
>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each point 
>>> is a line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing the direction 
>>> of motion. There should be x-y coordinates axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??
>>
>> Pycairo?
>>
> turtle
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/turtle.html

It's in standard library, and therefore Not Cool.

<duck>




From donn.ingle at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:19:06 2010
From: donn.ingle at gmail.com (donn)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:19:06 +0200
Subject: pyclutter anyone?
In-Reply-To: <4B6BD072.4080006@gmail.com>
References: <4B6BD072.4080006@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C530A.70303@gmail.com>

No one uses pyClutter?
I have some code, it does not work, but maybe this will start to help 
solve the problem:

import clutter
from clutter import cogl

x,y=0,0

def boo(tl,frame,obj):#,evt):
	global x,y
	obj.set_position(x, y)

def xy(obj,evt):
	global x,y
	x,y = evt.x,evt.y

class G(clutter.Group):
	"""
	Attempt to make a Group that can clip its children to a path.
	"""
	def __init__(self,*args):
		clutter.Group.__init__(self,*args)
		#self.set_clip(0,0,10,10)
		self.connect("paint",self.do_paint)
		self._color = clutter.Color(255,200,100)
	def do_paint(self, args):
		width,height=200,200
		cogl.path_move_to(width / 2, 0)
		cogl.path_line_to(width, height)
		cogl.path_line_to(0, height)
		cogl.path_line_to(width / 2, 0)
		cogl.path_close()
		#cogl.set_source_color(self._color)
		#cogl.path_fill()

		## Colour me lost from here...
		cogl.clip_push_from_path()
		clutter.Group.do_paint(self)
		cogl.clip_pop()

def main():
	global group1
	stage = clutter.Stage()
	stage.set_size(500, 500)
	stage.set_color(clutter.color_from_string("#FFF"))

	rect1, rect2, rect3 = clutter.Rectangle(), clutter.Rectangle(), 
clutter.Rectangle()
	group1, group2, group3 = G(), clutter.Group(), clutter.Group()

	group1.add(rect1, group2)
	group2.add(rect2, group3)
	group3.add(rect3)

	group1.set_position(100, 100)
	group2.set_position(100, 100)
	group3.set_position(100, 100)

	rect1.set_position(0, 0)
	rect2.set_position(0, 0)
	rect3.set_position(0, 0)

	rect1.set_size(150, 150)
	rect2.set_size(150, 150)
	rect3.set_size(150, 150)

	rect1.set_color(clutter.color_from_string("#FF000090"))
	rect2.set_color(clutter.color_from_string("#00FF0090"))
	rect3.set_color(clutter.color_from_string("#0000FF90"))

	stage.add(group1)

	stage.show_all()
	group1.show_all()
	group2.show_all()
	group3.show_all()

	stage.connect("key-press-event", clutter.main_quit)
	stage.connect('destroy', clutter.main_quit)
	stage.connect('motion-event', xy)

	path = clutter.Path('M 0 0 L 300 0 L 300 300 L 0 300z')
	timeline = clutter.Timeline(4000)
	timeline.set_loop(True)
	alpha = clutter.Alpha(timeline,clutter.EASE_OUT_SINE)
	p_behaviour = clutter.BehaviourPath(alpha, path)
	path.add_move_to(0, 0)
	p_behaviour.apply(group3)	

	timeline.add_marker_at_time("foo",2000)

	timeline.start()

	t=clutter.Timeline(1000)
	t.set_loop(True)
	t.connect('new-frame', boo, group1)
	t.start()

	clutter.main()

if __name__ == '__main__':
	main()

\d

-- 
Fonty Python and Things! -- http://otherwise.relics.co.za/wiki/Software


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:23:09 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:23:09 +0100
Subject: timer for a function
Message-ID: <hkhk45$jvp$1@ger.gmane.org>

I have the following situation:

1.

self.conobj = paramiko.SSHClient()

self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username, 
key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)

2. very slow SSH host that is hanging for 30+ seconds on key exchange.

The timeout in the options regards only a socket timeout, not further 
stages of connection negotiation, so it doesn't work there.

On paramiko mailing list I got the suggestion to build a timer and then 
quit this by myself:

> The timeout option in connect() is for the socket, not for the entire
> operation. You are connected, so that timeout is no longer relevant.
> You would probably have to wrap the transport.connect() method in a
> timer to break out of this early.

Question: how can I do that? Use another threaded class? Is there some 
other way?


Additional snag is SSHClient() is a class that internally uses threads. 
How do I kill brutally its threads? Is there any way to do it?

Regards,
mk



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:23:51 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:23:51 +0000
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
> two functions.

So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?

-- 
Arnaud


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 12:24:20 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:24:20 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
> implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
> structures ?
>
> I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not 
> exist.
>
> Let say I have this very simple class:
>
> class Point:
>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>    self.x = x
>    self.y = y
>
>
> I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
> 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
> 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
> Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
> class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
>
> I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
> pointing me in the right direction.
>
> JM
>
I realized I gave a poor example, actually the Point object is marshable 
(marshallable ? like to invent new words), xmlrpc will try to marshall 
using __dict__ if possible.

import os

class Point:
   def __init__(self, x, y):
   self.x = x
   self.y = y
   self.notMarshallable = os


JM


From tadmc at seesig.invalid  Fri Feb  5 12:25:34 2010
From: tadmc at seesig.invalid (Tad McClellan)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:25:34 -0600
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2sk9fllvm.fsf@dhcpw80ff9506.dynamic.uiowa.edu>
	<b1iom59726rj1qdd197u2dd2rd71bjdid1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnhmokto.s9v.tadmc@tadbox.sbcglobal.net>

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.perl.misc.]

J?rgen Exner <jurgenex at hotmail.com> wrote:
> David Thole <dthole at gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>>I read this....and am a tiny bit confused about the actual problem.
>>
>>It's not exactly complex to realize that something like:
>>a = b = array
>>that a and b both point to the array.
>
> ???
> What are you talking about? First of all you should post actual code,


First of all, we should not be feeding the troll!

actual code in one of Perl, Python or Lisp?


-- 
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:29:07 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <hkhkfa$jvp$2@ger.gmane.org>

Ethan Furman wrote:

> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/choose_python.pdf 
> 

Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored. 
Oh well..



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 12:30:17 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:30:17 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <hkhiij$d55$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com> <hkhiij$d55$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C55A9.9000902@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>
> Why not dump the whole thing and use Pyro, which works beautifully and 
> handles all the serialization business by itself, you get a Python 
> object on the other side? Unless xmlrpc has to be at the other end, 
> that is.
>
>
Company stuff. We are all using the xmlrpc standard for our network code.

JM




From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb  5 12:30:46 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:30:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkhkk6$8iq$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-05, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each
> point is a line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing
> the direction of motion. There should be x-y coordinates
> axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??

I'd probably use gnuplot-py, but I'm probably biased since I've
been using gnuplot since way before I learned Python.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Hello, GORRY-O!!
                                  at               I'm a GENIUS from HARVARD!!
                               visi.com            


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:30:50 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:30:50 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkhkig$jvp$3@ger.gmane.org>

Julian wrote:

> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.

Dictionaries.

A workhorse of Python, by far the most useful data structure.




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:35:39 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:35:39 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkhj66$gd2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>	<hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C4A06.6010700@sequans.com>
	<hkhj66$gd2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkhkrh$jvp$4@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> 
>  > What I can say however:
>  >
>  > 1/ your interface is somehow broken. You ask actions through options (-c
>  > -y -s), meaning one can possibly use all these 3 options  together. Your
>  > code won't handle it (you are using elif statements). What happens if I
>  > use no option at all ?


Arrgh this is my bad day. You get this:

Linux RH [17:35] root ~ # cssh.py -i linux

You have to specify exactly one of the following:
  - command to run remotely, using -c command / --cmd command, or
  - script to run remotely, using -s scriptfile / --script scriptfile, or
  - file/directory to copy, using -y file_or_dir / --copy file_or_dir



From bradallen137 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:48:24 2010
From: bradallen137 at gmail.com (Brad Allen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:48:24 -0600
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
In-Reply-To: <4B6C3DEC.9030109@sequans.com>
References: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6C3DEC.9030109@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4957f1ef1002050948i49816576nfe2f614a36d17cb1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant
<jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> Anyway why would you want to use the tuple form ? it's beaten in every
> aspect by the dictionary form.

I'm subclassing a namedtuple, and adding some additional functionality
such as __getitem__, __setitem__, so that the namedtuple also behaves
like a dict.


From charles at declareSub.com  Fri Feb  5 12:55:58 2010
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:55:58 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
Message-ID: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>

I am so far unable to find the information I want about the Exception  
class.  Information like the signature of __init__ seems to be  
unavailable.  Any suggestions where I might find such information?


Charles Yeomans


From cjblaine at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:58:52 2010
From: cjblaine at gmail.com (cjblaine)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:58:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
References: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1763.1265072455.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<303e1371-bc77-4cc8-bbbf-bddfd610fad9@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<8167cbe0-d099-4a0b-804e-6e91817197ec@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <382f9f94-e863-4511-a824-b03225135faa@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 11:35?pm, cjblaine <cjbla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 11:04?pm, cjblaine <cjbla... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 8:00?pm, Christian Heimes <li... at cheimes.de> wrote:
>
> > > cjblaine wrote:
> > > > Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
> > > > install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?
>
> > > Python's distutils doesn't alter the library search path unless you tell
> > > it explicitly.
>
> > > > A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):
>
> > > > % python setup.py build
> > > > ....
> > > > gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
> > > > apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
> > > > %
>
> > > The Extension() class supports the rpath argument. Simply add
> > > rpath="/path/to/library/dir" and you are good.
>
> > > Christian
>
> > Thanks for the reply.
>
> > So, python setup.py build rpath="/whatever/lib" ?
>
> Replying to myself:
>
> No. ?Actually, Christian, it looks like it's runtime_library_dirs?
>
> class Extension:
> ...
> ? ? ? runtime_library_dirs : [string]
> ? ? ? ? list of directories to search for C/C++ libraries at run time
> ? ? ? ? (for shared extensions, this is when the extension is loaded)
>
> So, how does one inject that into, I assume, setup.cfg ? ?Ideally it
> could be done via the build command-line, but I don't see a way to do
> that when browsing python setup.py build --help
>
> ( there is no setup.cfg provided in the PyGreSQL source tree, to )
> ( continue that example case ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? )

Anyone?


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Fri Feb  5 13:11:17 2010
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (Laszlo Nagy)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:11:17 +0100
Subject: Editor for Python
Message-ID: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>


   Hi All,

I know that this question was put up on this list a thousand times. I 
know that most of the editors are listed here: 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors

I already tried most of them. But still, I need something that is not 
listed there. Requirements:

    * starts and works fast
    * has code folding, displays identation guides
    * auto completion
    * class browser
    * source code browser (e.g. a list of definitions, when you click it
      jumps to the definition
    * integration with pychecker or pylint
    * UTF-8 files
    * free, or not-so-expensive
    * works on linux and windows

The one I'm using now is Geany. It does everything, except class browser 
and pychecker/pylint. Now maybe, I can install (or write??) a geany 
extension that would allow me to use pychecker. But I could not find 
information on that. There where others I tried (PyPE, DrPython, 
KomodoEdit, Editra etc.) but all of them failed for some reason. Can you 
please suggest another editor that I could try? Or send me a link that 
tells how to write or install pychecked plugin for Geany.

Thanks,

    Laszlo

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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb  5 13:20:40 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:20:40 +0000
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com> <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C6178.2010002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
>> implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
>> structures ?
>>
>> I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not 
>> exist.
>>
>> Let say I have this very simple class:
>>
>> class Point:
>>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>>    self.x = x
>>    self.y = y
>>
>>
>> I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
>> 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
>> 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
>> Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
>> class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
>>
>> I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
>> pointing me in the right direction.
>>
>> JM
>>
> I realized I gave a poor example, actually the Point object is marshable 
> (marshallable ? like to invent new words), xmlrpc will try to marshall 
> using __dict__ if possible.
> 
"marshallable". Just pick a verb and add -able.

There was an advertisement by British Gas in which someone said that his
gas central heating was very turn-off-and-on-able! :-)

> import os
> 
> class Point:
>   def __init__(self, x, y):
>   self.x = x
>   self.y = y
>   self.notMarshallable = os
> 


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb  5 13:26:23 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:26:23 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1980.1265388814.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>	<mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4B6C45E0.1000309@optimum.net>	<5d1a32001002050826h190c4d74y539745e7c855f1ee@mail.gmail.com>	<4B6C4C93.3050602@optimum.net>
	<mailman.1980.1265388814.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C62CF.9090902@optimum.net>

On 2/5/2010 11:53 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
>   Also, I'm contractually obligated to
>> admonish you not to "top post".
>
> Contract?

Joke. (I know it's hard to tell.)

>
>>
>> At any rate, I proposed the 3-line format specifically because it separates
>> the data values from the if-then-else machinery, making it easier (for me)
>> to read. But there was considerable resistance to spending so much vertical
>> space in the source code.
>
> Weird!  It's three lines and the original was four lines was it not>?

Yes, but most people (including you, right?) seemed to think that 
conditional expressions are best confined to a single line.

I proposed my 3-line alternative for expressions that *cannot* 
reasonably be confined to a single line.

-John






From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 13:41:52 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:41:52 -0500
Subject: Editor for Python
In-Reply-To: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>
References: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002051041od360fd1qe46a1ba8593df7ff@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/5 Laszlo Nagy <gandalf at shopzeus.com>:
>
> ? Hi All,
>
> I know that this question was put up on this list a thousand times. I know
> that most of the editors are listed here:
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>
> I already tried most of them. But still, I need something that is not listed
> there. Requirements:
>
> starts and works fast
> has code folding, displays identation guides
> auto completion
> class browser
> source code browser (e.g. a list of definitions, when you click it jumps to
> the definition
> integration with pychecker or pylint
> UTF-8 files
> free, or not-so-expensive
> works on linux and windows
>
> The one I'm using now is Geany. It does everything, except class browser and
> pychecker/pylint. Now maybe, I can install (or write??) a geany extension
> that would allow me to use pychecker. But I could not find information on
> that. There where others I tried (PyPE, DrPython, KomodoEdit, Editra etc.)
> but all of them failed for some reason. Can you please suggest another
> editor that I could try? Or send me a link that tells how to write or
> install pychecked plugin for Geany.
>
> Thanks,
>
> ?? Laszlo
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

I use Geany too.  It lets me see the classes in my module, though not
within a package (Is that what you mean)?  You'd probably have to
write a plugin to support pychecker or pylint though I believe that
its not too difficult.  Who knows?  Perhaps someone already has such a
plugin that you can use.

-- 
Gerald Britton


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 13:44:03 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SQLite3: preventing new file creation
Message-ID: <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Every time I say something like:

connection=sqlite3.connect(file)

sqlite creates a new database file. Can this behavior be suppressed
through SQLite? Or am I forced to check for the file existing first?

-- Gnarlie


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb  5 14:04:34 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:04:34 -0800
Subject: How Uninstall MatPlotLib?
In-Reply-To: <hkhgae$o1b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkhgae$o1b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkhq44$hvd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/5/2010 8:17 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> See Subject.
I'm working in IDLE in Win7. It seems to me it gets stuck in 
site-packages under C:\Python25. Maybe this is as simple as deleting the 
entry?

Well, yes there's a MPL folder under site-packages and an info MPL file 
of 540 bytes. There  are  also pylab.py, pyc,and py0 files under site.


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 14:13:36 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:13:36 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
In-Reply-To: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
References: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Charles Yeomans <charles at declaresub.com> wrote:
> I am so far unable to find the information I want about the Exception class.
> ?Information like the signature of __init__ seems to be unavailable. ?Any
> suggestions where I might find such information?
>
>
> Charles Yeomans
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Though not documented, some silly tests indicate that it will accept
pretty much anything:

>>> Exception(1,2,4,54)
Exception(1, 2, 4, 54)
>>> Exception(*range(10))
Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
>>> Exception(*range(50))
Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33,
34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49)
>>> Exception('a','b','c','d','e')
Exception('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e')
>>> Exception(Exception(1))
Exception(Exception(1,),)

-- 
Gerald Britton


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Feb  5 14:53:08 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:53:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
Message-ID: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
verbNoun?

For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
should probably pick one way and stick with it.

Thanks


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 14:55:25 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:55:25 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hkht3o$k51$1@ger.gmane.org>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>> two functions.
> 
> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
> 
If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.

I statement that calls one of two functions depending on the value of a
Boolean is normally considered to be better coupling than calling a
single function with the Boolean as an argument.

As with everything else you have to apply a certain amount of common sense.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:00:45 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:00:45 -0500
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002051200n11f02e65re43ad5291bbbf951@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
>
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> Thanks
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

I'd say noun_verb (note the underscore in accordance with the style
guide in PEP 8):

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/

Function Names

      Function names should be lowercase, with words separated by underscores
      as necessary to improve readability.

      mixedCase is allowed only in contexts where that's already the
      prevailing style (e.g. threading.py), to retain backwards compatibility.

-- 
Gerald Britton


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:14:51 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:14:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
Message-ID: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
stupid.
I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
than log N.

def power(A,N,M):
    ret=1
    while(N):
        if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
        A=(A*A)%M
        N=N//2
    return ret


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Fri Feb  5 15:15:42 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:15:42 -0500
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>  <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <1265400942.3301.14.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 18:24 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> > Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
> > implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
> > structures ?
> > I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not 
> > exist.
> > Let say I have this very simple class:
> > class Point:
> >    def __init__(self, x, y):
> >    self.x = x
> >    self.y = y
> > I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
> > 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
> > 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
> > Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
> > class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
> > I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
> > pointing me in the right direction.
> I realized I gave a poor example, actually the Point object is marshable 
> (marshallable ? like to invent new words), xmlrpc will try to marshall 
> using __dict__ if possible.
> import os
> class Point:
>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>    self.x = x
>    self.y = y
>    self.notMarshallable = os

This example doesn't make any sense.  Why would you set a variable equal
to an important module in a class named Point?

What is it you are actually trying to accomplish?  If you are trying to
create an object publishing environment then maybe something like -

rpc = xmlrpclib.loads(payload, use_datetime=True)
method = rpc[1].split('.')
classname   = method[0]
methodname = method[1]
parameters  = rpc[0]
classclass = eval(classname)
handler = classclass()
call = getattr(handler, method_name)
result = apply(call, parameters)
result = xmlrpclib.dumps(tuple([result]), methodresponse=True)

Obviously add copious amounts of exception handling and a security
model.
-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From nagle at animats.com  Fri Feb  5 15:16:46 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:16:46 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

kj wrote:
...
> 
> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py. 

    The right answer to this is to make module search return an
error if two modules satisfy the search criteria.  "First find"
isn't a good solution.

				John Nagle


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:18:42 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:18:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5630ef4a-28c0-4efd-9d4f-a7b8aab28cb3@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 8:14?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
> stupid.
> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> is (A**N)%M but my ?A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> 10^5. The other approach ? was ?repeated squaring and taking mod of
> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> than log N.
>
> def power(A,N,M):
> ? ? ret=1
> ? ? while(N):
> ? ? ? ? if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
> ? ? ? ? A=(A*A)%M
> ? ? ? ? N=N//2
> ? ? return ret

The built-in pow function does exactly this, if you give it three
arguments:

>>> pow(12345, 67891, 17)
10
>>> 12345 ** 67891 % 17
10L

(Though this won't work for negative N.)

Mark


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:19:26 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:19:26 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002051219v65760f7co276617dd6422952b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:16 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:

> kj wrote:
>
>> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
>> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
>> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
>> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.
>>
>
>   The right answer to this is to make module search return an
> error if two modules satisfy the search criteria.  "First find"
> isn't a good solution.
>

And thereby slowdown every single import and application startup time as the
common case of finding a module in one of the first couple entries in
sys.path now has to search it in every single item on that path. Its not
uncommon to have a LOT of things on sys.path.

No thanks. "First Find" is good enough, especially with PEP328 and
absolute_import being on in Python 3 (and presumably 2.7). It doesn't really
help older Python versions unfortunately, but changing how import works
wouldn't help them anyways. Yeah, there might be two paths on sys.path which
both have a 'numbers.py' at the top level and First Find might return the
wrong one, but... people making poor decisions on code organization and not
using packages isn't something the language really needs to fix.

--S
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From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:21:13 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:21:13 -0500
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002051221r2b4ffadak442492bac6debb40@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 3:14 PM, mukesh tiwari
<mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
> stupid.
> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> is (A**N)%M but my ?A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> 10^5. The other approach ? was ?repeated squaring and taking mod of
> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> than log N.
>
> def power(A,N,M):
> ? ?ret=1
> ? ?while(N):
> ? ? ? ?if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
> ? ? ? ?A=(A*A)%M
> ? ? ? ?N=N//2
> ? ?return ret
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/decimal.html#decimal.Context.power

-- 
Gerald Britton


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb  5 15:26:38 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:26:38 -0800
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002051226o50d4ff02u101d8c362ae0d1ea@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
>
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.

Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
[2] http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb  5 15:26:44 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:26:44 +0000
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C7F04.1090002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Wanderer wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
> 
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
> 
I would use the 'normal' order, which in this case is 'get_voltage'.


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Feb  5 15:28:37 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:28:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<5630ef4a-28c0-4efd-9d4f-a7b8aab28cb3@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a9521891-f9b7-409d-a9af-db599d1eb250@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 2:18?pm, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 8:14?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
> > stupid.
> > I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> > is (A**N)%M but my ?A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> > 10^5. The other approach ? was ?repeated squaring and taking mod of
> > expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> > than log N.
>
> > def power(A,N,M):
> > ? ? ret=1
> > ? ? while(N):
> > ? ? ? ? if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
> > ? ? ? ? A=(A*A)%M
> > ? ? ? ? N=N//2
> > ? ? return ret
>
> The built-in pow function does exactly this,

It doesn't do 'exactly' that. M is the number of digits.
If you want 17 digits, the third number should 10**17.
Using 17 directly will give you a 2-digit answer as shown.

Try this instead:

>>> pow(12345,67891,10**17)
50553131103515625


> if you give it three
> arguments:
>
> >>> pow(12345, 67891, 17)
> 10
> >>> 12345 ** 67891 % 17
>
> 10L
>
> (Though this won't work for negative N.)
>
> Mark



From jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:39:07 2010
From: jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com (jonny lowe)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:39:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1265336437.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0ec3e55a-90b6-4d49-89b5-6a5721d366b5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 8:20?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 01:56 am, jonny.lowe.12... at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >Hi everyone,
>
> >Is there an easy way to mergestdinandstdout? For instance suppose I
> >havescriptthat prompts for a number and prints the number. If you
> >execute this with redirection from a file say input.txt with 42 in the
> >file, then executing
>
> >./myscript < input.txt > output.txt
>
> >the output.txt might look like this:
>
> >Enter a number:
> >You entered 42.
>
> >What I want is to have an easy way to merge input.txt and thestdout
> >so that output.txt look like:
>
> >Enter a number: 42
> >You entered 42.
>
> >Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.
>
> It sounds like you might be looking forscript(1)?
>
> Jean-Paul

Hi Jean-Paul,

I tried it. But stdin is not merged in with stdout. Maybe I'm using
script wrongly? This is what I've done. I have a python script y.
Here's what it looks like when I run it and I entered "sss":

$ ./y
gimme x:sss
you entered sss

Now I'm going to use the script command. I'm using an input file
input.txt that contains just the string "hello".

$ script -c "./y < input.txt" output.txt
Script started, file is output.txt
gimme x:you entered hello
Script done, file is output.txt

And when I view output.txt this is what I see:

$ less output.txt
Script started on Thu Feb  4 22:28:12 2010
gimme x:you entered hello

Script done on Thu Feb  4 22:28:13 2010

As you can see the stdin is not printed. What I'd really wanted was
something like this in output.txt:

gimme x:hello
you entered hello

-jon


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb  5 15:44:58 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:44:58 +0000
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002051219v65760f7co276617dd6422952b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7a9c25c21002051219v65760f7co276617dd6422952b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C834A.7020801@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:16 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com 
> <mailto:nagle at animats.com>> wrote:
> 
>     kj wrote:
> 
>         Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
>         root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
>         as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
>         unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.
> 
> 
>       The right answer to this is to make module search return an
>     error if two modules satisfy the search criteria.  "First find"
>     isn't a good solution.
> 
> 
> And thereby slowdown every single import and application startup time as 
> the common case of finding a module in one of the first couple entries 
> in sys.path now has to search it in every single item on that path. Its 
> not uncommon to have a LOT of things on sys.path.
>  
> No thanks. "First Find" is good enough, especially with PEP328 and 
> absolute_import being on in Python 3 (and presumably 2.7). It doesn't 
> really help older Python versions unfortunately, but changing how import 
> works wouldn't help them anyways. Yeah, there might be two paths on 
> sys.path which both have a 'numbers.py' at the top level and First Find 
> might return the wrong one, but... people making poor decisions on code 
> organization and not using packages isn't something the language really 
> needs to fix.
> 
You might want to write a script that looks through the search paths for
duplicated names, especially ones which hide modules in the standard
library. Has anyone done this already?


From python at rcn.com  Fri Feb  5 15:53:51 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:53:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
References: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <649b3c62-f228-4fc1-9913-2dbe4d253788@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 6:57?am, bradallen <bradallen... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> For container class derived from namedtuple, but which also behaves
> like a dictionary by implementing __getitem__ for non-integer index
> values, is there a special reserved method which allows intercepting %
> string formatting operations? I would like for my container type to
> behave appropriately depending on whether the string formatting
> operation has a string like this :
>
> "whatever %s yadayada" % mycontainer ?# needs to act like a tuple
>
> "whatever %(key)s yadayada" % mycontainer ?# needs to act like a
> dictionary


The implementation for str.__mod__ refuses to
treat tuples and tuple subclasses as a dictionary.
Since namedtuples are a subclass of tuple, you're
not going to have any luck with this one.

To see actual C code, look at PyString_Format() in
http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/stringobject.c?view=markup

	PyObject *dict = NULL;
          . . .
	if (Py_TYPE(args)->tp_as_mapping && !PyTuple_Check(args) &&
	    !PyObject_TypeCheck(args, &PyBaseString_Type))
		dict = args;

Since automatic conversion is out, you can instead use
the namedtuple._asdict() method for an explicit conversion:

>>> from collections import namedtuple
>>> Point = namedtuple('Point', 'x y')
>>> p = Point(5, 12)
>>> 'x: %(x)s' % p._asdict()
'x: 5'


Raymond


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 16:03:15 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:03:15 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <4B6B5C72.8080100@stoneleaf.us>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>	<a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6B5C72.8080100@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <hki12h$le$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-04 17:46 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
>> On 2010-02-04 14:55 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>> On Feb 3, 3:39 pm, Steve Holden<st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>>>> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> all of Python in an hour.
>>>>
>>>>> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable
>>>>> chance of
>>>>> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
>>>>> It's just exposition.
>>>>
>>>> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't
>>>> explained it.
>>>
>>> On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
>>> would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
>>> than that time to truly understand everything that was said.
>>
>> Like I said, that's exposition, not explanation. There is an important
>> distinction between the two words. Simply providing information is not
>> explanation. If it takes four hours for your audience to understand
>> it, then you explained it in four hours no matter when you stopped
>> talking.
>
> And if it takes six months? Would you seriously say it took you six
> months to explain something because it took that long for your audience
> to understand it?
>
> At some point you have to make the transition from person A explaining
> and person(s) B understanding -- they don't necessarily happen
> synchronously.

Then it's exposition and understanding, not explanation and understanding.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Fri Feb  5 16:09:55 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:09:55 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D168C976DFBAduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<mailman.1950.1265376253.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D168C976DFBAduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4B6C8923.3090501@bluewin.ch>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Anthra Norell <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>   
>>> Using pythonw.exe will start the program with all error output dumped in
>>> the bit bucket. Running from a command prompt with python.exe will at
>>> least let you see if there are any errors. 
>>>   
>>>       
>> python.exe from the command line works all right in a DOS window. The 
>> problem must be with  idle.pyw. I tried the old idle.pyw (2.4) with the 
>> new python.exe. (2.5) and that didn't work either.
>> What is the bit bucket? If I had a clue, I could go from there. What 
>> puzzles me is that version 2.4 has been working fine and one wouldn't 
>> think that the changes from 2.4 to 2.5 would be so extensive as to cause 
>> a major malfunction. For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 
>> 2.5, though, because it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 
>> cannot even use it.
>>     
>
> Bit bucket: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_bucket
>
> If you are seeing nothing at all when running it with python.exe instead of 
> pythonw.exe then something bizarre must be happening.
>
> My guess would have been that you had a problem importing something: e.g. 
> if Tkinter isn't installed properly then running Idle under pythonw.exe 
> would exit with an error message but you wouldn't see the error message. 
> However since you don't see an error message when running it with 
> python.exe it isn't that.
>
> Sorry, I'm out of ideas for now.
>
>   
No matter. I'll just keep working with 2.4. The machine is on its way 
out anyway. I have a brand new Dell Latitude E6500 without an operating 
system waiting to be set up with Linux. That'll take some time. Thank 
you for your suggestions.

Frederic



From bcb at undisclosedlocation.net  Fri Feb  5 16:22:25 2010
From: bcb at undisclosedlocation.net (Bruce C. Baker)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:22:25 -0600
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
	<de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <l_%an.72$zN4.36@newsfe05.iad>


"George Sakkis" <george.sakkis at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064 at j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...


I'll give the benefit of doubt and assume you're joking rather than
trolling.

George

*************************************************************

Not trolling, my friend!

GvR got it right when he discarded the superfluous semicolons from the ends 
of statements--and then he ADDS superfluous colons to the ends of control 
statements? It will probably be as much of a shock to you as it was to me 
when I learned after studying parsing that colons, semicolons, "then"'s and 
"do"'s, etc.,  are simply noise tokens that serve no purpose except to 
clutter up the source.

As for enforced indentation, back in the late 60's when I was a programming 
newbie I remember thinking how cool it would be to just indent the 
statements controlled by for loops (we didn't have none of them fancy while 
loops in FORTRAN back then! :-) )  Not too long after that I saw the havoc 
that a buggy editor could wreak on nicely-formatted source. :-( Formatting 
held hostage to a significant, invisible whitespace char? An inevitable 
accident waiting to happen! Not good, Guido; not good at all.

That'll do for starters. :-)





From aharrisreid at googlemail.com  Fri Feb  5 16:26:20 2010
From: aharrisreid at googlemail.com (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:26:20 +0000
Subject: Editor for Python
In-Reply-To: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>
References: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C8CFC.8020507@googlemail.com>


Hi Laszlo,

I use Wing IDE (not free, $35 for personal edition) and PyScripter 
(free).  I find both good, for different reasons.

Regards,
Alan

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Laszlo Nagy wrote:
>
>   Hi All,
>
> I know that this question was put up on this list a thousand times. I 
> know that most of the editors are listed here: 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>
> I already tried most of them. But still, I need something that is not 
> listed there. Requirements:
>
>     * starts and works fast
>     * has code folding, displays identation guides
>     * auto completion
>     * class browser
>     * source code browser (e.g. a list of definitions, when you click
>       it jumps to the definition
>     * integration with pychecker or pylint
>     * UTF-8 files
>     * free, or not-so-expensive
>     * works on linux and windows
>
> The one I'm using now is Geany. It does everything, except class 
> browser and pychecker/pylint. Now maybe, I can install (or write??) a 
> geany extension that would allow me to use pychecker. But I could not 
> find information on that. There where others I tried (PyPE, DrPython, 
> KomodoEdit, Editra etc.) but all of them failed for some reason. Can 
> you please suggest another editor that I could try? Or send me a link 
> that tells how to write or install pychecked plugin for Geany.
>
> Thanks,
>
>    Laszlo
>

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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Feb  5 16:39:46 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:39:46 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hki12h$le$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>	<a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6B5C72.8080100@stoneleaf.us>
	<hki12h$le$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C9022.5050604@stoneleaf.us>

Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-04 17:46 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>> On 2010-02-04 14:55 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>> On Feb 3, 3:39 pm, Steve Holden<st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>>>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>>>>> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will
>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>> all of Python in an hour.
>>>>>
>>>>>> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable
>>>>>> chance of
>>>>>> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
>>>>>> It's just exposition.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't
>>>>> explained it.
>>>>
>>>> On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
>>>> would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
>>>> than that time to truly understand everything that was said.
>>>
>>> Like I said, that's exposition, not explanation. There is an important
>>> distinction between the two words. Simply providing information is not
>>> explanation. If it takes four hours for your audience to understand
>>> it, then you explained it in four hours no matter when you stopped
>>> talking.
>>
>> And if it takes six months? Would you seriously say it took you six
>> months to explain something because it took that long for your audience
>> to understand it?
>>
>> At some point you have to make the transition from person A explaining
>> and person(s) B understanding -- they don't necessarily happen
>> synchronously.
> 
> Then it's exposition and understanding, not explanation and understanding.
> 

Hmm.  Well, I can see your point -- after all, if are "explaining" but 
your audience is not understanding, are you really explaining?  Okay, 
looking in the dictionary...

ex?plain ?verb (used with object)
1. 	to make plain or clear; render understandable or intelligible: to 
explain an obscure point.
2. 	to make known in detail: to explain how to do something.

un?der?stand ?verb (used with object)
1. 	to perceive the meaning of; grasp the idea of; comprehend: to 
understand Spanish; I didn't understand your question.
2. 	to be thoroughly familiar with; apprehend clearly the character, 
nature, or subtleties of: to understand a trade.
3. 	to assign a meaning to; interpret: He understood her suggestion as a 
complaint.
4. 	to grasp the significance, implications, or importance of: He does 
not understand responsibility.

For me, at least, it boils down to this feeling that understanding is 
not a True/False item, but more of a scale (like all the the numbers 
between 0.0 and 1.0 [not including 1.0 of course -- this *is* Python! 
;)]).  As a personal example, decorators are not that difficult to grasp 
-- you take your function and wrap it in another function; but what you 
can do with them!  They are truly impressive once your understanding 
deepens.

And at the end of the day (or this thread, whichever comes first ;) 
Python is awesome, and that's what counts.

~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Feb  5 16:48:22 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:48:22 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B6C9226.2020606@stoneleaf.us>

John Nagle wrote:
> kj wrote:
> ...
>>
>> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
>> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
>> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
>> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py. 
> 
>    The right answer to this is to make module search return an
> error if two modules satisfy the search criteria.  "First find"
> isn't a good solution.
> 
>                 John Nagle

Then what happens when you *want* to shadow a module?  As MRAB suggests, 
if you are really concerned about it use a script that checks for 
duplicate modules (not a bad idea for debugging), but don't start 
throwing errors... next thing you know we won't be able to shadow 
classes, functions, or built-ins!  !-)

~Ethan~


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Feb  5 16:49:33 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:49:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 3:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> > Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> > verbNoun?
>
> > For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> > but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> > should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>
> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
> [2]http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.

    def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
        """
        Get the Abbe Number V for the material
        where
        V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
        where the Index of Refractions are
        Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
        Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
        Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
        """

        Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
        Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
        Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)

        if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
            V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
        else:
            V = 1e6

        return V

    # end AbbeGet


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb  5 16:53:16 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:53:16 +0100
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hki40f$dmi$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Wanderer:
> On Feb 5, 3:26 pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
>>> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
>>> verbNoun?
>>> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
>>> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
>>> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
>> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>>
>> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
>> [2]http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --http://blog.rebertia.com
> 
> Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.
> 
>     def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
>         """
>         Get the Abbe Number V for the material
>         where
>         V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
>         where the Index of Refractions are
>         Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
>         Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
>         Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
>         """
> 
>         Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
>         Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
>         Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)
> 
>         if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
>             V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
>         else:
>             V = 1e6
> 
>         return V
> 
>     # end AbbeGet

Consider this piece of code:

    x = 2*sin( angle )

versus this:

    x = 2*get_sin( angle )

or this:

    x = 2*sin_get( angle )


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb  5 16:53:57 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:53:57 -0800
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002051353o5031b76el6f6f0fcd540bbf64@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 3:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
>> > Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
>> > verbNoun?
>>
>> > For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
>> > but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
>> > should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>>
>> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
>> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>>
>> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
>
> Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.
>
> ? ?def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
> ? ? ? ?"""
> ? ? ? ?Get the Abbe Number V for the material
> ? ? ? ?where
> ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> ? ? ? ?where the Index of Refractions are
> ? ? ? ?Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
> ? ? ? ?Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
> ? ? ? ?Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
> ? ? ? ?"""
>
> ? ? ? ?Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
> ? ? ? ?Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
> ? ? ? ?Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)
>
> ? ? ? ?if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> ? ? ? ?else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?V = 1e6
>
> ? ? ? ?return V

This isn't even really a method; you don't refer to "self" in the body
at all. Why isn't it just a function?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 16:56:29 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:56:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad> 
	<de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<l_%an.72$zN4.36@newsfe05.iad>
Message-ID: <65c717dd-826d-4e8e-8dd3-8a0a90df7b86@o26g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>


> GvR got it right when he discarded the superfluous semicolons from the ends
> of statements--and then he ADDS superfluous colons to the ends of control
> statements? It will probably be as much of a shock to you as it was to me
> when I learned after studying parsing that colons, semicolons, "then"'s and
> "do"'s, etc., ?are simply noise tokens that serve no purpose except to
> clutter up the source.

Some argue that the colon is a useful visual cue that aids in
readability and
that "explicit is better than implicit".  I think one can feel either
way about it.
For my part, I prefer to have colons at that point, because it serves
as a
mental primer that a certain type of block follows.  Semi-colons at
the end
of statements don't seem to provide any mental priming for me that
can't
better be served by a line break.

> As for enforced indentation, back in the late 60's when I was a programming
> newbie I remember thinking how cool it would be to just indent the
> statements controlled by for loops (we didn't have none of them fancy while
> loops in FORTRAN back then! :-) ) ?Not too long after that I saw the havoc
> that a buggy editor could wreak on nicely-formatted source. :-( Formatting
> held hostage to a significant, invisible whitespace char? An inevitable
> accident waiting to happen! Not good, Guido; not good at all.

First, why would you tolerate a buggy editor?

I've had my share of challenges in learning Python, but indentation
problems
would be about 403rd down on the list.  A simple indentation error is
shown in
my editor that immediately gets fixed.  No havoc at all.  And I also
know that
every piece of Python code I ever get from others *has* to be readable
(at
least in terms of the very visually helpful indented blocks).

Che



Che

>
> That'll do for starters. :-)



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:02:42 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:02:42 GMT
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<pecora-49F401.09220305022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <037c81ba$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:22:03 -0500, Lou Pecora wrote:

[...]
>> > That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous
>> > collection of variables.
>> 
>> Easy, but also quick and dirty -- good enough for small scripts, but
>> not really good enough for production applications.
[...]
> I understand where you are coming from: Production Code.  I was just
> making a point about Python and my code is only used by me.  I can edit
> the file for the simple I/O I do.  I am not recommending this way for
> everyone. Just an example.

We're in violent agreement then :)


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:19:11 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:19:11 GMT
Subject: which
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>
	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1968.1265385115.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c8597$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:52:19 +0100, mk wrote:

> assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, "cmd should be string
> or None"

Do not use assertions for input validation. That's not what they're for.

assert is compiled away when you run your code with the -O switch, which 
means that the test may never be made at all. You should limit assertions 
for testing "this can never happen" situations, verifying pre- and post-
conditions, checking the internal logic of your code, and similar.


See also:

http://nedbatchelder.com/text/assert.html


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:19:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:19:31 GMT
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
References: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1967.1265384950.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c85ab$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:00 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Anyway why would you want to use the tuple form ? it's beaten in every
> aspect by the dictionary form.

Except convenience, efficiency and readability.

"%s %s" % (1, 2)

versus

"%(a)s %(b)s" % {'a': 1, 'b': 2}


I'm all in favour of the second form when you need it. But you certainly 
don't need it all time.



-- 
Steven


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 17:19:36 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:19:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: reconstruct the source of a lambda from its func_code, func_name, etc
Message-ID: <03a5232b-fdcb-48f9-926e-bdd6e2e4b638@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Thy Pon:

Has anyone figured out how to reflect a passed function, such as a
lambda, all the way back to its source?

I am aware than func_code knows the file name and line number; I would
rather not use them to read the file because the lambda might not
start in the first column. I will go with this option until someone
suggests a better fix!

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 17:20:58 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:20:58 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>
>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>
>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>
>> After changing to
>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>
>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
> 
> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
> 
> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.



How can I completely disable IP6.

I went to my network device and disabled IPV6 under properties. The
XMRPC calls were stull slow.

bye


N


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:21:05 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:21:05 GMT
Subject: which
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c8609$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:21:05 +0100, mk wrote:

> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>      self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>      self.cmd = cmd
> 
> or
> 
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>      self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)


Whichever one you like. The differences are insignificance, and 
essentially boil down to personal preference.



-- 
Steven


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Feb  5 17:21:55 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2011.1265406841.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <36952f27-c825-4ab8-bd2e-7dff097075fd@d30g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 4:53?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 5, 3:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> >> > Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> >> > verbNoun?
>
> >> > For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> >> > but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> >> > should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> >> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
> >> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>
> >> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
>
> > Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.
>
> > ? ?def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
> > ? ? ? ?"""
> > ? ? ? ?Get the Abbe Number V for the material
> > ? ? ? ?where
> > ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> > ? ? ? ?where the Index of Refractions are
> > ? ? ? ?Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
> > ? ? ? ?Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
> > ? ? ? ?Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
> > ? ? ? ?"""
>
> > ? ? ? ?Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
> > ? ? ? ?Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
> > ? ? ? ?Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)
>
> > ? ? ? ?if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> > ? ? ? ?else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?V = 1e6
>
> > ? ? ? ?return V
>
> This isn't even really a method; you don't refer to "self" in the body
> at all. Why isn't it just a function?
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Okay, I guess it should be a function called abbe() instead of a
method called AbbeGet(). That should solve the problem of trying to
remember whether I called it GetAbbe or AbbeGet.

Thanks


From bartc at freeuk.com  Fri Feb  5 17:22:39 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:22:39 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org><m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>


"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>> two functions.
>>
>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>
> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.

So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false, 
underline=true) to be split into:

drawtext(s)
drawtextb(s)
drawtexti(s)
drawtextu(s)
drawtextbi(s)
drawtextbu(s)
drawtextiu(s)
drawtextbiu(s)

Which of course is going to be fun if the bold/italic/underline values are 
not constants; instead of writing:

drawtext(s,b,i,u)

you have to say:

if b==0 and i==0 and u==0:
    drawtext(s)
elif b==1 and i==0 and u==0:
    drawtextb(s)

and so on. With half-a-dozen or more booleans, this becomes completely 
impractical.

-- 
Bartc 



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:26:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:26:03 GMT
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2sk9fllvm.fsf@dhcpw80ff9506.dynamic.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <037c8733$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:53:33 -0600, David Thole wrote:

> I read this....and am a tiny bit confused about the actual problem.
> 
> It's not exactly complex to realize that something like: a = b = array
> that a and b both point to the array.
> 
> Logically speaking, I'm not sure how one could assume that the same
> assignment would yield a and b point to the same duplicate array.

It's an easy mistake to make, if you don't understand Python's object 
model:


>>> a = b = 2
>>> a += 1
>>> a, b
(3, 2)
>>> a = b = [2]
>>> a[0] += 1
>>> a, b
([3], [3])

For the non-Python coders reading, the difference is that ints are 
immutable, and hence a += 1 assigns a to a new int, leaving b untouched, 
but lists are mutable, hence a[0] += 1 mutates the list which both a and 
b refer to. This is a Good Thing, but it is one of the things which give 
newcomers some trouble.


-- 
Steven


From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 17:26:48 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:26:48 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi JM,

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>>  
>>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>>>
>>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>>>
>>>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After changing to
>>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>>>
>>>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>>>>
>
> Or you can simply use an explicit external address. Most of the time
> xmlRPC server/clients are used between distant machines.
> If your are using localhost for test purpose, then binding your server
> on its external IP instead of the local one could solve your problem
> (wihtout removing the IPV6 stack).
> 
> import socket
> 
> # server
> server = SimpleXMLRPCServer((socket.gethostname(), 5000),
> logRequests=False, allow_none=True)
> 
> 
> # client
> xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://%s.yourdomain.com:%s" %
> (socket.gethostname(), 5000))


Well This was exactly my question.
for virtual web servers I cannot just use the IP-address.
some XMLRPC servers do need the histname within the HTTP-POST request.

if I just replaced the hostname with the IP addres, then certain servers
would not be accessable.

I had to use the IP-address for connecteing, but to pass the hostname in
the HTTP-POST request.

I wondered how to convince puthon's SimpleXMLRPCServer (or any other
standard python xmlrpc server), such, that I can obtain above mentioned
goal.


bye

N


> PS : just wondering if using the port 80 is legal

If nothing else on the host runs on port 80 the answer is yes.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:31:32 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:31:32 GMT
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <037c887c$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:53:08 -0800, Wanderer wrote:

> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
> 
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal, 

+0.5 for getVoltage

+1 get_voltage

-1 for voltageGet or voltage_get


> but
> voltageGet is more like voltage.Get.

According to PEP 8, the style guide for the standard library, method 
names should use lowercase initial letter, so you should have 
voltage.get. Following PEP 8 isn't compulsory, but it is recommended 
unless you want a bunch of busy-body coders telling you you need to 
follow PEP 8 :)


> I seem to mix them and I should
> probably pick one way and stick with it.

Yes.




-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Feb  5 17:41:22 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:41:22 +0000
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.05.22.41.21.875000@nowhere.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:57:17 -0800, Ashok Prabhu wrote:

> I very badly need this to work. I have been googling out for a week
> with no significant solution. I open a process p1 which does keeps
> running for 4+ hours. It gives some output in stdout now and then. I
> open this process with subprocess.Popen and redirect the stdout to
> PIPE. However when I read the output with readline it blocks waiting
> forever. I need to read from p1.stdout till what it has in the PIPE.
> Can someone help me out with the exact code change that can accomplish
> the task.
> 
> from subprocess import *
> 
> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
> 
> while 1:
>     line=p1.stdout.readline()
>     print line

The answer is essentially the same one I gave in response to your post
entitled "read a process output with subprocess.Popen" yesterday.

You need to persuade the command to line-buffer its output rather than
block-buffering it. If the command insists on block-buffering, you're out
of luck; there's no way that Python can force it to do otherwise.

You might be able to persuade the command to use line-buffering by using a
pty rather than a pipe for its stdout, although that depends upon
os.openpty() being available on your platform (the documentation only says
"Availability: some flavors of Unix").



From g.statkute at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 17:42:23 2010
From: g.statkute at gmail.com (gintare statkute)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:42:23 +0200
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
Message-ID: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>

Does anybody know if it possible to execute sqlite3 dot commands in python?

dovanotas:/pages/links# python
Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan  4 2009, 17:40:26)
[GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sqlite3
>>> sqlite3  .help
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'help'
>>>

the same with other commands:
.databases
.tables
http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite.html

regards,
gintare


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 17:45:38 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:45:38 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org><m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <hki72g$jdd$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-05 16:22 PM, bartc wrote:
>
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>>> two functions.
>>>
>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>>
>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>
> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
> underline=true) to be split into:
>
> drawtext(s)
> drawtextb(s)
> drawtexti(s)
> drawtextu(s)
> drawtextbi(s)
> drawtextbu(s)
> drawtextiu(s)
> drawtextbiu(s)
>
> Which of course is going to be fun if the bold/italic/underline values
> are not constants; instead of writing:
>
> drawtext(s,b,i,u)
>
> you have to say:
>
> if b==0 and i==0 and u==0:
> drawtext(s)
> elif b==1 and i==0 and u==0:
> drawtextb(s)
>
> and so on. With half-a-dozen or more booleans, this becomes completely
> impractical.

Then you refactor to

   drawtext(s, font)

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:45:51 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:45:51 GMT
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c8bd7$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:26:38 -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com>
> wrote:
>> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
>> verbNoun?
>>
>> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
>> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
>> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
> 
> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.


But sometimes you still need methods or functions of the form verb_noun. 
For instance, if getting or setting the voltage is an expensive 
operation, you don't want to fool the user into thinking it is a cheap 
attribute access. Or get_voltage might be a stand-alone function rather 
than a method. Or the getter might allow additional arguments. 

The admonition to avoid getters and setters isn't meant to prohibit *any* 
method which has a get/set in the name (whether implicit or explicit). 
It's meant as an antidote to the Java idiom of making *every* attribute 
private and accessing them via getters/setters, even when all they do is 
merely get/set the contents of the attribute.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:48:37 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:48:37 GMT
Subject: reconstruct the source of a lambda from its func_code,
	func_name, etc
References: <03a5232b-fdcb-48f9-926e-bdd6e2e4b638@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <037c8c7d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:19:36 -0800, Phlip wrote:

> Thy Pon:
> 
> Has anyone figured out how to reflect a passed function, such as a
> lambda, all the way back to its source?

Use the dis module to disassemble the byte code to human readable form, 
then write some sort of decompiler to translate it back to Python.

The second half is the difficult part... 

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:52:24 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:52:24 GMT
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100, mk wrote:

> Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/
choose_python.pdf
>> 
>> 
> Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored.
> Oh well..

With an attitude like that, you're damn lucky if you don't get kill-
filed. It was SIX MINUTES since you posted your question about timers, 
what did you expect?

Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might never 
get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after six DAYS 
might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but after six 
minutes?

Advice on public forums is free, but it doesn't come with an guaranteed 
response time. If you want a Service Level Agreement, you will need to 
pay somebody for it.



-- 
Steven


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 17:54:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:54:52 -0500
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6CA1BC.3060401@holdenweb.com>

News123 wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
> 
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>>
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>>
>>> After changing to
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
>> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
>>
>> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
>> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
>> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.
> 
> 
> 
> How can I completely disable IP6.
> 
> I went to my network device and disabled IPV6 under properties. The
> XMRPC calls were stull slow.
> 
There's not a lot of point taking actions like disabling IPv6 until you
actually know what the cause of the problem is (though I suppose a few
likely-sounding actions are worth taking if they don't require much
effort). Sounds to me like you need to get WireShark or some similar
protocol analyzer on the network and determine what traffic is passing
across the network.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 17:54:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:54:52 -0500
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6CA1BC.3060401@holdenweb.com>

News123 wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
> 
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>>
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>>
>>> After changing to
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
>> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
>>
>> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
>> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
>> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.
> 
> 
> 
> How can I completely disable IP6.
> 
> I went to my network device and disabled IPV6 under properties. The
> XMRPC calls were stull slow.
> 
There's not a lot of point taking actions like disabling IPv6 until you
actually know what the cause of the problem is (though I suppose a few
likely-sounding actions are worth taking if they don't require much
effort). Sounds to me like you need to get WireShark or some similar
protocol analyzer on the network and determine what traffic is passing
across the network.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 18:01:46 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 23:01:46 GMT
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
	<de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<l_%an.72$zN4.36@newsfe05.iad>
Message-ID: <037c8f92$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:22:25 -0600, Bruce C. Baker wrote:

> GvR got it right when he discarded the superfluous semicolons from the
> ends of statements--and then he ADDS superfluous colons to the ends of
> control statements? 

They're not superfluous, they have a real, practical use.


> It will probably be as much of a shock to you as it
> was to me when I learned after studying parsing that colons, semicolons,
> "then"'s and "do"'s, etc.,  are simply noise tokens that serve no
> purpose except to clutter up the source.

Incorrect, they do have a use. Hint: source code isn't just read by 
parsers.



> As for enforced indentation, back in the late 60's when I was a
> programming newbie I remember thinking how cool it would be to just
> indent the statements controlled by for loops (we didn't have none of
> them fancy while loops in FORTRAN back then! :-) )  Not too long after
> that I saw the havoc that a buggy editor could wreak on nicely-formatted
> source. :-( 

As opposed to how resistant source code is to buggy editors that make 
other changes to source code.

If your editor flips the order of characters, or turns the digit "4" into 
"7", or deletes braces, or inserts "#" characters at the start of lines, 
you would dump the editor in a second. But if the editor inserts or 
removes whitespace, we're supposed to continue using the editor and 
change the language?


> Formatting held hostage to a significant, invisible
> whitespace char? 

It's not invisible. You can see it by noticing the space between the left 
margin and the start of non-whitespace text. Can you see the difference 
between these?

hello world

    hello world

Of course you can, unless your News reader or mail client is buggy. If it 
is deleting whitespace at the start of lines, how can you trust it not to 
delete anything else?

Trailing spaces and tabs, on the other hand, *are* invisible. But they're 
also insignificant, and so don't matter.

(Except for one little tiny corner case, which I shall leave as an 
exercise for the advanced reader.)



-- 
Steven


From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 18:03:51 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:03:51 +0100
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
Message-ID: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,



I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.

What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with CTRL-C

The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under Windows)

If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
function.

Is there any trick, which I overlook?

thanks in advance for ideas and bye


N


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb  5 18:08:08 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 15:08:08 -0800
Subject: SQLite3: preventing new file creation
References: <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hki8co$qmi$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0 at k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Gnarlodious  <gnarlodious at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Every time I say something like:
>
>connection=sqlite3.connect(file)
>
>sqlite creates a new database file. Can this behavior be suppressed
>through SQLite? Or am I forced to check for the file existing first?

Check first
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 18:11:04 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:11:04 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org><m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <hki8im$okh$1@ger.gmane.org>

bartc wrote:
> 
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>>> two functions.
>>>
>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>>
>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
> 
> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
> underline=true) to be split into:
> 
> drawtext(s)
> drawtextb(s)
> drawtexti(s)
> drawtextu(s)
> drawtextbi(s)
> drawtextbu(s)
> drawtextiu(s)
> drawtextbiu(s)
> 
The case I was discussing was where the function was required to
implement significantly different logic flow for the two different
values of the Boolean.

> Which of course is going to be fun if the bold/italic/underline values
> are not constants; instead of writing:
> 
> drawtext(s,b,i,u)
> 
> you have to say:
> 
> if b==0 and i==0 and u==0:
>    drawtext(s)
> elif b==1 and i==0 and u==0:
>    drawtextb(s)
> 
> and so on. With half-a-dozen or more booleans, this becomes completely
> impractical.
> 
It's completely impractical the way you've written it anyway, since the
drawtext function shouldn't be required to know whether it's printing
bold, italic, etc. - those properties should be attributes of the font.

regards
 Steve


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 18:19:09 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:19:09 -0500
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
In-Reply-To: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hki91r$pua$1@ger.gmane.org>

gintare statkute wrote:
> Does anybody know if it possible to execute sqlite3 dot commands in python?
> 
> dovanotas:/pages/links# python
> Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan  4 2009, 17:40:26)
> [GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sqlite3
>>>> sqlite3  .help
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'help'
> 
> the same with other commands:
> .databases
> .tables
> http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite.html
> 
No. That's not how you pass commands to sqlite3 - you connect to a
database, create a cursor on the connection, and then execute SQL
statements (not sqlite commands) on the cursor. Like this:

>>> import sqlite3
>>> c = sqlite3.connect("deleteme")
>>> cu = c.cursor()
>>> cu.execute(".help")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
sqlite3.OperationalError: near ".": syntax error
>>> cu.execute("""\
... CREATE TABLE test(
...   a int primary key,
...   b varchar)""")
<sqlite3.Cursor object at 0x01FD4740>
>>>

As you can see, the cursor's execute() method expects SQL statements.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 18:29:10 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 23:29:10 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <037c95fe$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:22:39 +0000, bartc wrote:

> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>>> two functions.
>>>
>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight
>>> functions?
>>>
>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
> 
> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
> underline=true) to be split into:
> 
> drawtext(s)
> drawtextb(s)
> drawtexti(s)
> drawtextu(s)
> drawtextbi(s)
> drawtextbu(s)
> drawtextiu(s)
> drawtextbiu(s)


No, of course not. But one might prefer a function with an alternate API, 
such as:

style = TextStyle(bold=True, underline=True, size=12, font='helvetica')
drawtext(s, style)
style.italic = True
drawtext(s, style)

Other alternatives might be to pass the style information as a string 
"BU" (bold underline) or a numeric flag (BOLD & UNDERLINE).

In general, if your implementation looks like this:


def function(args, flag):
    if flag:
        do_this()
    else:
        do_that()


then this is a good candidate for splitting into multiple functions.

Likewise:

def function(args, flag):
    result = do_this()
    if flag:
        result = modify(result)
    return result

or similar.

The point is that such a function uses the flag to select between two 
different semantics. From a API perspective, it is generally better to 
make each behaviour an independent function (perhaps calling a third, 
private, function implementing any common behaviour). For example, 
instead of:

def extreme(sequence, biggest=True):
    """Return the extreme value from sequence.

    If biggest is a true value, return the maximum value, otherwise
    return the smallest.
    """
    pass  # implementation left as an exercise


have two functions, max and min.



-- 
Steven


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb  5 18:36:19 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:36:19 -0800
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <037c8bd7$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8bd7$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002051536u4f29be9laac873fcd212a7b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:26:38 -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
>>> verbNoun?
>>>
>>> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
>>> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
>>> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>>
>> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
>> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>
> But sometimes you still need methods or functions of the form verb_noun.

True, but when the verb is "get" and you're using Python, your design
probably merits another going-over. If the OP hadn't used "get" as
their example, I would have answered significantly differently.

> For instance, if getting or setting the voltage is an expensive
> operation, you don't want to fool the user into thinking it is a cheap
> attribute access.

I strongly disagree with this rationale as it violates the Uniform
Access Principle
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_access_principle). Though I
concede Python's builtins don't adhere to the UAP.

> Or get_voltage might be a stand-alone function rather
> than a method.

The OP originally said quite explicitly it was a method in their
original post. (Though they since wisely changed their code structure
so it's not.)

> Or the getter might allow additional arguments.

True; but before the OP posted the actual function body, there was no
way to know whether it did. Lacking such info, I assumed the simplest
and most frequent case, namely that it didn't take any args.

> The admonition to avoid getters and setters isn't meant to prohibit *any*
> method which has a get/set in the name (whether implicit or explicit).
> It's meant as an antidote to the Java idiom of making *every* attribute
> private and accessing them via getters/setters, even when all they do is
> merely get/set the contents of the attribute.

True. Again, before the OP posted the method body, there was no way to
know it wasn't a trivial Java-esque getter.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From jackdied at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 18:43:13 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:43:13 -0500
Subject: list.extend([]) Question
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002050831r6233b751mcbc5f55fb9a2c1b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5d1a32001002050831r6233b751mcbc5f55fb9a2c1b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8e622741002051543o3f34a967qc8f2fb5139ea41d1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Gerald Britton
<gerald.britton at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's because when you do ['a'].extend([]) or whatever, the
> result is whatever the method "extend" returns. ?But "extend" has no
> return value, hence you will see None if you do this interactively.
>

That sums it up.  In Python the convention is to raise an exception on
error, return a new value in the case where a new value is created,
and - as in this case - to return None for modification of an existing
value.  Returning "None" is vexing if you are used to another language
that has a different convention but is expected for well behaved
python libraries.

So yeah, Python does it that way because the intent is to loudly and
regularly announce that something was modified or to loudly and
regularly announce that something new was /not/ created.  It's a
boring story with no whiz-bang feature behind it, but I like that the
language behaves that way for exactly that reason.

-Jack


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb  5 19:00:44 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:00:44 -0600
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <037c8f92$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>	<de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<l_%an.72$zN4.36@newsfe05.iad>
	<037c8f92$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6CB12C.4020705@tim.thechases.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Trailing spaces and tabs, on the other hand, *are* invisible. But they're 
> also insignificant, and so don't matter.
> 
> (Except for one little tiny corner case, which I shall leave as an 
> exercise for the advanced reader.)

Drat, now I'm gonna be up at odd hours tonight dredging my brain 
for such corner cases.  My catalog so far:

- triple-quoted multi-line strings

- "\" line-continuations don't work with trailing whitespace 
(though Vim's syntax highlighting flags them, changing their 
color if there's whitespace afterwards)

- files that read themselves (or perhaps depend on 
introspection/debugging modules to read themselves)

Any others that I missed?

-tkc






From mentifex at myuw.net  Fri Feb  5 19:02:53 2010
From: mentifex at myuw.net (Forthminder)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:02:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
Message-ID: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Contest runs from 4 February to 26 February 2010.

You may choose a programming language, such as
Java, C++, Python, Ruby or Haskell.

See details at

http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/problem_description.php

Bonne Chance!

Mentifex
--
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt


From wgaggioli at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:08:06 2010
From: wgaggioli at gmail.com (William Gaggioli)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:08:06 -0500
Subject: Calendar GUI
Message-ID: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is there some open-source
calendar program you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
that something simple and clean is ideal.

Thanks,
Will
-------------- next part --------------
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From gabriel at opensuse.org  Fri Feb  5 19:14:33 2010
From: gabriel at opensuse.org (Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:14:33 -0300
Subject: Calendar GUI
In-Reply-To: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggioli at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
> them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
> is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
> staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
> action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is there some open-source
> calendar program you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
> be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
> that something simple and clean is ideal.
>

I wrote a gtk gui for google calendar.

Maybe you can adapt it to your needs.

http://code.google.com/p/googlecalendar-gtk/

-- 
Kind Regards


From imuaplease at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:24:56 2010
From: imuaplease at gmail.com (**Group User**)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:24:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1eed1fcc-f1d1-4f71-bc05-68dddb3f17b4@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 7:02?am, Forthminder <menti... at myuw.net> wrote:
> Contest runs from 4 February to 26 February 2010.
>
> You may choose a programming language, such as
> Java, C++, Python, Ruby or Haskell.
>
> See details at
>
> http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/problem_description.php
>
> Bonne Chance!
>
> Mentifex
> --http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt

I find out that
I was a donkie
I was hooked up
Torn
Screwed up
And Haskel was there at that time
He got anrgy, pity
For my stupidity
All for best
Simulation for good alone



KKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNIIEEEE


From charles at declaresub.com  Fri Feb  5 19:27:55 2010
From: charles at declaresub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:27:55 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
	<5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29236418-FA36-49FB-A45B-AA414A21AE79@declaresub.com>


On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Gerald Britton wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Charles Yeomans <charles at declaresub.com 
> > wrote:
>> I am so far unable to find the information I want about the  
>> Exception class.
>>  Information like the signature of __init__ seems to be  
>> unavailable.  Any
>> suggestions where I might find such information?
>>
>
> Though not documented, some silly tests indicate that it will accept
> pretty much anything:
>
>>>> Exception(1,2,4,54)
> Exception(1, 2, 4, 54)
>>>> Exception(*range(10))
> Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
>>>> Exception(*range(50))
> Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
> 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33,
> 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49)
>>>> Exception('a','b','c','d','e')
> Exception('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e')
>>>> Exception(Exception(1))
> Exception(Exception(1,),)

I had also tried such tests.  If you pass a single argument msg, it is  
assigned to the message property, and the args property is set to  
(msg,). If you pass more than one argument, the tuple of arguments is  
assigned to the args property, and nothing is assigned to the message  
property.  I was hoping to at least find source code that provides a  
definitive answer.


Charles Yeomans




From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 19:31:16 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:31:16 +0100
Subject: can pydoc display doc for local funcs? or other doc tools for own code
Message-ID: <4b6cb854$0$28668$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

often I start "pydoc -g" in a projects working directory in order to
view the docstrings of my own project and in order to get a quick
overview of the code structure


In some cases I would like to see also to see private methods
(especially when trying to understand the internals of a collegues code
or even to browse throught the internals of my own code)


Therefore I wonder whether pydoc could be configured such, that it would
also display private methods (the ones with leading underscores)


If not:

What tools / methodologies would you recommend to quickly browse own /
collegues source code.

In many cases the function prototypes and the doc strings of public and
private methods would be sufficient for me.


thanks for any ideas



N




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb  5 19:56:21 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:56:21 -0300
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <op.u7okv7e3x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:

> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>
> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with  
> CTRL-C
>
> The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under  
> Windows)
>
> If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
> It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
> function.

Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
On previous versions you may use this:

class MyXMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer):

     ... your methods ...

     if not hasattr(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, 'shutdown'):

         # pre 2.6
         quit = False

         def serve_forever(self):
             while not self.quit:
                 self.handle_request()

         def shutdown(self):
             self.quit = True

         def server_bind(self):
             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb  5 21:49:08 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:49:08 -0800
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <hkhkk6$8iq$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkhkk6$8iq$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkilb7$7hg$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/5/2010 9:30 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-02-05, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>
>> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each
>> point is a line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing
>> the direction of motion. There should be x-y coordinates
>> axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??
>
> I'd probably use gnuplot-py, but I'm probably biased since I've
> been using gnuplot since way before I learned Python.
>
It appears this is easier than I thought. MLB's plot will do it. I can 
put arrows at the end of a line, and even use sleep to watch the path 
slowly evolving.


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 22:17:17 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:17:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<1eed1fcc-f1d1-4f71-bc05-68dddb3f17b4@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <814cf6b9-546c-4e1c-a02b-80d84a757da5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Sweet, something to keep my brain busy for the next couple of weeks.


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Feb  5 22:38:15 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:38:15 -0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
In-Reply-To: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6ce04c$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Forthminder wrote:
...

Ignore.  Well-known nut. See "http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html"

				John Nagle


From fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 22:54:48 2010
From: fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com (Jordan Uchima)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:54:48 -0600
Subject: "Nim" game being created, no GUI used... Need tips...
Message-ID: <1b07ab151002051954hf3c946bqf4f306184228da40@mail.gmail.com>

I am creating a game called Nim, but cannot get a loop going no matter what
I do. What i am trying to do is get it to only accept input from 1 to 4,
and  keep asking for input from the same player if he/she enters in an
invalid number. I also want it to stop when there is 1 or no piece(s) left,
and declare the player who DID NOT take the last piece the winner. Also, how
do I word the coding so that way it will make the players take turns? there
are 2 players. there are 13 pieces to start with. i am using python 2.6.4 .
here is my code:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

# taking pieces away

player1Choice = raw_input("Well, " + namePlayer1 + " how many"\
                           " pieces would you like to take?\n" + range(1,
4))
player2Choice = raw_input("Well, " + namePlayer2 + " how many"\
                           " pieces would you like to take?\n" + range(1,
4))

# setting a variable for the number of pieces

x = 13 - int(player1Choice or player2Choice) and not < 0

# to alternate turns

turn  = \
while player1Choice is False:
    print player1Choice and "There is ", x, " pieces remaining."
while player1Choice is True:
    print player2Choice and "There is ", x, " pieces remaining."
while player2Choice is False:
    print player2Choice and "There is ", x, " pieces remaining."
while player1Choice and player2Choice is True:
    print player1Choice and "There is ", x, " pieces remaining."
while x != range(0, 1):
    continue turn


# to determine winner/loser

loss = while x = range(0, 4) is True:
    print loser " loses!" + loser = \
      if player1Choice = loss:
    print namePlayer1 + loss
elif player2Choice = loss:
    print namePlayer2 + loss
else player1Choice and player2Choice = loss:
    print "It's a draw!"
elif player1Choice != loss:
    print ""
elif player2Choice != loss:
    print ""
else player1Choice and player2Choice != loss:
    print "Keep going! Only ", x, " pieces left!"

winner = \
       if player1Choice != loss:
    print namePlayer1 " wins!"
elif player2Choice != loss:
    print namePlayer2 " wins!"
elif player1Choice and player2Choice != loss:
    print "Keep going! Only ", x, " pieces left!"
elif player1Choice = loss:
    print namePlayer1 + loss
elif player2Choice = loss:
    print namePlayer2 + loss
else player1Choice and player2Choice = loss:
    print "It's a draw!"

# getting player's names

namePlayer1 = raw_input("Hello Player 1, what is your name?\n")
namePlayer2 = raw_input("Hello Player 2, what is your name?\n")

# greeting players

print "Hello", namePlayer1, "and", namePlayer2, "!"

# instructions

print "Welcome to the game of Nim, where you actually have to think!\n\n"\
      "The instructions are simple: you can take 1 to 4 pieces at a time,"\
      " but, if you take the last piece, YOU LOSE!\n\n"\
      "To take pieces, simply type in the number of pieces you want"\
      " to take, and press the ENTER (or in some cases, RETURN) key.\n\n"\
      "However, you can NOT take 0 pieces, or more than 4 pieces!\n\n"\
      "Well then, let's get started! :-)"

# starting the game

print turn

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All help and insertions would be appreciated. You can reach me at
fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com   .

Thanks!
-------------- next part --------------
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From toylet.toylet at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 23:18:40 2010
From: toylet.toylet at gmail.com (Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps))
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:18:40 +0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
In-Reply-To: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 06-Feb-10 08:02, Forthminder wrote:
> Contest runs from 4 February to 26 February 2010.
> http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/problem_description.php
> Bonne Chance!

It's definitely *not* exactly a programming challenge, but algorithm 
challenge.

A programming (only) challenge should only require the players to write 
codes to implement an algorithm.

This one requires both algorithm design & programming.

-- 
   @~@   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
  / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10)  Linux 2.6.32.7
   ^ ^   12:16:01 up 6 days 20:22 2 users load average: 0.45 0.26 0.09
???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Feb  5 23:55:54 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:55:54 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6CF65A.6030703@islandtraining.com>

Craig Berry wrote:
> Is there any way to get mouse wheel events from glut in PyOpenGL?
>
>   

Use Linux.  (On Linux, Glut returns mouse wheel events as buttons 4 and 
5), or use FreeGlut.  On both Windows and Linux freeglut returns mouse 
wheel events as buttons 4 and 5.

Gary Herron



From darnzen at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 00:05:53 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:05:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WCK and PIL
Message-ID: <1fbe5e4b-2179-410b-9f76-9d65a7a08dce@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

I've written an app using the wck library (widget construction kit,
see http://www.effbot.org), in addition to the wckGraph module. What
I'd like to do, is take the output of one of my windows (happens to be
a graph), and save it as a *.png or *.gif. I was planning on using the
PIL for this. I'd like to use the code I have as is, without re-
writing all the graphic calls to use PIL methods.

WCK uses its own "pixmap" class for storing images in memory. I can't
find any documentation or class reference for pixmap and what I find
in the source is confusing.

Does anyone have any direct experience with these libraries that can
tell me that there's some super easy thing I'm missing? I'd love it if
the wck pixmap is compatible with PIL. I don't have the time to mess
with it unless I know its going to work.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:10:08 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:10:08 -0300
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1265336437.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0ec3e55a-90b6-4d49-89b5-6a5721d366b5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7owm6sax6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:39:07 -0300, jonny lowe
<jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com> escribi?:
> On Feb 4, 8:20 pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>> On 01:56 am, jonny.lowe.12... at gmail.com wrote:

>> >What I want is to have an easy way to merge input.txt and thestdout
>> >so that output.txt look like:
>>
>> >Enter a number: 42
>> >You entered 42.
>>
>> >Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.
>>
>> It sounds like you might be looking forscript(1)?
>
> $ script -c "./y < input.txt" output.txt
> Script started, file is output.txt
> gimme x:you entered hello
> Script done, file is output.txt

Try moving the redirection out of the command:

$ script -c ./y output.txt < input.txt

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:19:22 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:19:22 -0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7ow2klzx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message  
> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> two functions.
>>>
>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>>
>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>
> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,  
> underline=true) to be split into:
>
> drawtext(s)
> drawtextb(s)
> drawtexti(s)
> drawtextu(s)
> drawtextbi(s)
> drawtextbu(s)
> drawtextiu(s)
> drawtextbiu(s)

Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
separate functions.
By example, foo.get_path(absolute=True) should be written as
foo.get_absolute_path() and foo.get_relative_path()
It gets worse when one parameter alters the type of the returned value, or
even the number of returned values. This is an actual example:

def build_image(self, zone=-1, return_sizes=False):
     ...
     if return_size:
       return img, sizes
     else:
       return img

image = foo.build_image(3)
but:
image, sizes = foo.build_image(3, True)

It should be split onto two separate functions; in this particular case,
computing 'sizes' required actually drawing the image, so the solution was
to make those 'sizes' attributes of the returned image.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:19:54 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:19:54 -0300
Subject: Import question
References: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:21:47 -0300, Andrew Degtiariov
<andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Code of our project has split into several packages and we deploy the
> project using buildout.
> All worked fine until I need to dynamically inspect python modules.

Entirely by luck, I'd say :)

> ????project.api.config
> ?   ????project
> ?   ?   ????api
> ?   ?       ????config
> ?   ?           ????settings
> ?   ????project.api.config.egg-info
> ????project.api.contacts
> ?   ????project
> ?   ?   ????api
> ?   ?       ????contacts
> ?   ?           ????importer
> ?   ?           ????views
> ?   ????project.api.contacts.egg-info

> Regular code like "import project.api.config" worked fine, but now I'm  
> tryed
> __import__('project.api.config'):
>
> $ bin/python
>
>>>> import project.api.config
>>>> __import__('project.api.config')
> <module 'project from
> 'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>

You can't use dots neither in module names nor package names as they're
identifiers [1]. It's like trying to use an attribute named 'foo.bar': you
can handle it with getattr/setattr, but normal attribute access won't work:

py> x.foo.bar = 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: X instance has no attribute 'foo'
py> setattr(x, 'foo.bar', 1)
py> x.foo.bar
Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: X instance has no attribute 'foo'
py> getattr(x, 'foo.bar')
1

[1] http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#the-import-statement

> What's wrong? We really need to split the code for several eggs and want
> that all of our package's names starts from 'project.api'

The only sane solution is to avoid using dots in package names. Sorry, but
having project.api.config, project.api.contacts as directory names is
simply crazy.
Looks like you actually wanted to use this layout:

project/
     api/
       config/
         ...
       contacts/
         ...
       core/
         ...

but made a wrong turn in the road...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:20:13 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:20:13 -0300
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> <4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:23:57 -0300, Anthra Norell
<anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> escribi?:

>>>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>>>    window. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
>>> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
>>> tips?

I'd suggest a couple more tests.
Open the Python interpreter and execute:

py> from idlelib import idle

This *should* launch IDLE, or raise an error... If nothing happens, exit
the process and open another one, and execute:

py> import Tkinter
py> root = Tkinter.Tk()
py> root.mainloop()

An empty window should appear. If not, I'd say something is wrong with the
Tcl/Tk libraries.

> For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 2.5, though, because  
> it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 cannot even use it.

PIL has an impressive compatibility record - it works with *any* Python
version from 1.5.2 up. You should be able to use PIL with 2.4 without
problems.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:59:35 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:59:35 -0300
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
References: <hkh3tn$lbc$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7oyxlhbx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:45:30 -0300, Frank Millman <frank at chagford.com>  
escribi?:

> Assume you have a server process running, a pool of worker threads to  
> perform tasks, and a Queue.Queue() to pass the tasks to the workers.
>
> In order to shut down the server cleanly, you want to ensure that the  
> workers have all finished their tasks. I like the technique of putting a  
> None onto the queue, and have each worker check for None, put None back  
> onto the queue, and terminate itself.
>
> The main program would look something like this -
>
>     q.put(None)
>     for worker in worker_threads:
>         worker.join()
>
> At this point you can be sure that each thread has completed its tasks  
> and terminated itself.
>
> However, the queue is not empty - it still has the final None in it.

Yes - but who cares? :)

> Is it advisable to finalise the cleanup like this? -
>
>     while not q.empty():
>         q.get()
>         q.task_done()
>     q.join()
>
> Or is this completely redundant?

I don't see what you gain by doing that.

On the other hand, you might check whether the queue contains exactly one  
item and it is None, just to be sure that all queued work has been done.

(BTW, I'd use a different sentinel instead of None; perhaps this could not  
happen in your current code, but it's easy to inadvertedly put a None in  
the queue, stopping all workers prematurely.)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 00:59:54 2010
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:59:54 -0700
Subject: Calendar GUI
In-Reply-To: <1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>
	<1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>

Gabriel wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggioli at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
>> them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
>> is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
>> staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
>> action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is there some open-source
>> calendar program you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
>> be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
>> that something simple and clean is ideal.
> 
> I wrote a gtk gui for google calendar.
> 
> Maybe you can adapt it to your needs.
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/googlecalendar-gtk/

Would this work without an internet connection?  The original poster
stated that internet isn't so reliable, hence the need for a local solution.



From frank at chagford.com  Sat Feb  6 01:30:55 2010
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 08:30:55 +0200
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
References: <hkh3tn$lbc$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<op.u7oyxlhbx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <hkj2be$lsm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Feb 6, 7:59 am, "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-... at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:45:30 -0300, Frank Millman <fr... at chagford.com> 
> escribi?:
>
[...]
> > However, the queue is not empty - it still has the final None in it.
>
> Yes - but who cares? :)
>

That was my point. I didn't think I needed to care, but I wanted to be sure 
I was not missing something.

I will just discard all the final cleanup code.

>
> (BTW, I'd use a different sentinel instead of None; perhaps this could not 
> happen in your current code, but it's easy to inadvertedly put a None in 
> the queue, stopping all workers prematurely.)
>

Good advice.

Thanks, Gabriel

Frank




From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Feb  6 03:08:09 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:08:09 +1300
Subject: ANN: PyGUI 2.2
Message-ID: <mailman.2041.1265465745.28905.python-announce-list@python.org>

PyGUI 2.2 is available:

   http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/

Highlights of this version:

   - TextEditor component with tabs, scrolling and word wrap
	
   - Classes for laying out components in rows, colums and grids
	
   - Printing support


What is PyGUI?
--------------

PyGUI is a cross-platform GUI toolkit designed to be lightweight
and have a highly Pythonic API.

-- 
Gregory Ewing
greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:29:10 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:29:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
References: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2017.1265411978.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c9d0555e-33cb-4b6f-92d6-88e8468f07a3@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 3:19?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> gintare statkute wrote:
> > Does anybody know if it possible to execute sqlite3 dot commands in python?
>
> > dovanotas:/pages/links# python
> > Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan ?4 2009, 17:40:26)
> > [GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> import sqlite3
> >>>> sqlite3 ?.help
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'help'
>
> > the same with other commands:
> > .databases
> > .tables
> >http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite.html
>
> No.


Well actually you can, sort of.  For instance:

os.system('sqlite3 :memory: .help')


Carl Banks


From andrewt.herd at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:32:58 2010
From: andrewt.herd at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:32:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyQt4 designer custom properties - combo box style
References: <f96f074b-69c9-4aca-8a81-483282d8f6eb@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkfjh0$156$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
Message-ID: <ac938b8e-b7d1-49e9-b279-57daaf956730@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 2:59?pm, David Boddie <da... at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> On Tuesday 02 February 2010 22:25, Andrew wrote:
>
> > I am creating custom widgets for the PyQt4 Designer. I can create
> > custom properties, but I'm looking for how to create a custom property
> > that has a combo box drop down. I've seen them in the example widgets
> > and tried following them, but they are using pre-defined items to
> > populate their property, so it's not a very clear example of how to
> > get the combo box property to work.
>
> Can you explain a bit more about what you have seen and what you are
> trying to do. Are you trying to create a property that is treated
> specially by Designer or do you want to get the data for the combo
> box from somewhere else?

I'm attempting to create a drop down property for a custom widget I'm
creating. So when in designer and you scroll down to the custom
properties, under the regular widget properties, one of them would be
a drop down menu. The data to populate it will be coming from our API
and currently is a list of string-items. Yes, it would be treated
specially by Designer, since it's the only place it would be seen.

In the PyQt4\examples\designer folder, it carries a number of custom
widgets that will load into designer. The datetimeedit widget creates
a custom drop down menu property. The plugin pulls its information
from the QtCore libraries and from the QCalander Widget. Though I am
unable to find a better example or even explanation of how it's
actually creating that drop down menu.

>
> > Is there any other examples or help for this kind of setup?
>
> Have you seen this article?
>
> ?http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qq/qq26-pyqtdesigner.html

No, I haven't, thanks. That might step in the right direction. I can't
run it right now, so I'm not sure if it is putting a spinbox as it's
property or just the value from the spin box.

>
> David

Andrew


From keakon at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:33:24 2010
From: keakon at gmail.com (keakon)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:33:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: which
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e702fad2-cdb2-47bd-b4a0-5af86c7370e5@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip) if isinstance(cmd, str) else cmd


From cameron.jp at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:40:26 2010
From: cameron.jp at gmail.com (Jeff Cameron)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:40:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <f1df3934-4604-49a1-bf11-7f3c885e10b1@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 11:18?pm, "Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps)"
<toylet.toy... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06-Feb-10 08:02, Forthminder wrote:
>
> > Contest runs from 4 February to 26 February 2010.
> >http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/problem_description.php
> > Bonne Chance!
>
> It's definitely *not* exactly a programming challenge, but algorithm
> challenge.
>
> A programming (only) challenge should only require the players to write
> codes to implement an algorithm.
>
> This one requires both algorithm design & programming.
>
> --
> ? ?@~@ ? Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> ? / v \ ?Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) ?Linux 2.6.32.7
> ? ?^ ^ ? 12:16:01 up 6 days 20:22 2 users load average: 0.45 0.26 0.09
> ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA):http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

Hello, this is Jeff Cameron, the organizer of the Google AI Challenge.
I'm glad to see all this interest in our humble little contest. I wish
you all the best of luck, and encourage everyone to try their hand at
writing an AI for Tron! www.ai-contest.com


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb  6 04:45:03 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:45:03 -0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7xpr4ihf4w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps)" <toylet.toylet at gmail.com> writes:
> It's definitely *not* exactly a programming challenge, but algorithm
> challenge.
> A programming (only) challenge should only require the players to
> write codes to implement an algorithm.

Eh?  Just about every interesting programming challenge is mostly about
algorithm selection.  Try some Project Euler for example.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:56:41 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:56:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8bd7$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<mailman.2018.1265412985.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee9e549-081b-4f22-9f08-62440df85d5d@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 3:36?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>
> <st... at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > For instance, if getting or setting the voltage is an expensive
> > operation, you don't want to fool the user into thinking it is a cheap
> > attribute access.
>
> I strongly disagree with this rationale as it violates the Uniform
> Access Principle
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_access_principle). Though I
> concede Python's builtins don't adhere to the UAP.

And I strongly disagree with the Uniform Access Principle.  I want my
accesses to an object to be explicitly "data-like" or "method-like",
even if

Based on the Wikipedia page, Meyer's main reason behind UAP seems to
be to minimize the need to break interfaces: the UAP is a means to an
end.  Python achieves that end without the conforming to UAP,
therefore it doesn't need it, and there's no reason to adhere to it.


Carl Banks


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Sat Feb  6 06:21:46 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:21:46 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>
	<op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <4B6D50CA.5070006@bluewin.ch>

Gabriel,
   Thanks for your hints. I take them up one by one:

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:23:57 -0300, Anthra Norell
> <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> escribi?:
>
>>>>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>>>>    window. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
>>>> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
>>>> tips?
>
> I'd suggest a couple more tests.
> Open the Python interpreter and execute:
>
> py> from idlelib import idle
>
> This *should* launch IDLE, or raise an error... 
 >>> import idle
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:/PYTHON25/Lib/IDLELIB\idle.pyw", line 6, in <module>
    import PyShell
  File "C:\Python25\Lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line 3, in <module>
ImportError: No module named os

 >>> import os
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named os


> If nothing happens, exit
> the process and open another one, and execute:
>
> py> import Tkinter
 >>> import Tkinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\PYTHON25\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 37, in <module>
    import FixTk # Attempt to configure Tcl/Tk without requiring PATH
  File "C:\PYTHON25\lib\lib-tk\FixTk.py", line 1, in <module>
    import sys, os
ImportError: No module named os

>
> py> root = Tkinter.Tk()
> py> root.mainloop()
>
> An empty window should appear. If not, I'd say something is wrong with 
> the
> Tcl/Tk libraries.
>
>> For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 2.5, though, 
>> because it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 cannot even 
>> use it.
>
> PIL has an impressive compatibility record - it works with *any* Python
> version from 1.5.2 up. You should be able to use PIL with 2.4 without
> problems.
>

Another good hint to a side issue: I should download PIL for P2.4. I 
guess it wasn't available back then and so I continued doing images with 
P2.2.

The real issue seems to be  a missing module "os".

C:\PYTHON25\LIB>dir os.*

 Volume in drive C is PKBACK# 001
 Volume Serial Number is 07D1-0103
 Directory of C:\PYTHON25\Lib

OS       PY         25,211  08-03-06  9:27a OS.PY
OS       PYC        24,430  06-05-08  6:45p OS.PYC
         2 file(s)         49,641 bytes
         0 dir(s)        2,635.30 MB free

Here we are! Somehow the name got upper-cased! There's a whole bunch  
(131) of upper-cased names in the Lib I shall install the whole thing 
from scratch. That should take care if it. Thank you very much.

Frederic (Looking forward to Linux!)



From tompelka at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 06:38:39 2010
From: tompelka at gmail.com (Tomas Pelka)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:38:39 +0100
Subject: how to run part of my python code as root
In-Reply-To: <a79c4871-efcc-47d0-bcb9-96e97e1d03c4@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1917.1265310357.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a79c4871-efcc-47d0-bcb9-96e97e1d03c4@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6D54BF.90903@gmail.com>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2:05 pm, Tomas Pelka <tompe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>> is there possibility how to run part of my code (function for example)
>> as superuser.
>>
>> Or only way how to do this is create a wrapper and run is with Popen
>> through sudo (but I have to configure sudo to run "whole" python as root).
>

thank you for excellent explanation.

> In decreasing order of desirability:
> 1. Find a way to not need root access (e.g. grant another user or
> group access to whatever resource you're trying to access).
> 2. Isolate the stuff that needs root access into a small helper
> program that does strict validation of all input (including arguments,
> environment, etc); when needed, run that process under sudo or
> similar.

I thing this approach is the best for me. But how to connect two
separated processes, one running with root privileges and second without
superuser privileges? Is was thinking about Queues from multiprocessing,
didn't you know if it is a good choice?

> 2a. Have some sort of well-verified helper daemon that has access to
> the resource you need and mediates use of that resource.
> 3. Run the process as root, using seteuid() to switch between user and
> root privs.  The entire program must be heavily verified and do strict
> validation of all inputs.  Any attacker who gets control over the
> process can easily switch to root privs and do damage.  This is
> generally a bad idea.


-- 
Tom

Key fingerprint = 06C0 23C6 9EB7 0761 9807  65F4 7F6F 7EAB 496B 28AA


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 06:48:56 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Feb 2010 11:48:56 GMT
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
Message-ID: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods 
which have been decorated.


Here is my test file:

# ======
class MyStaticMethod(object):
    """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor."""
    def __init__(self, f):
        self.f = f
    def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
        return self.f

class Test(object):
    def method1(self):
        """Doc string

        >>> print 'x'
        x
        """

    @staticmethod
    def method2():
        """Doc string

        >>> print 'y'
        y
        """

    @MyStaticMethod
    def method3():
        """Doc string

        >>> print '***'  # This test should fail.
        z
        """

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import doctest
    doctest.testmod(verbose=True)
# ======


and here is the output using Python 2.6.4:

[steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 test_doctests.py
Trying:
    print 'x'
Expecting:
    x
ok
Trying:
    print 'y'
Expecting:
    y
ok
5 items had no tests:
    __main__
    __main__.MyStaticMethod
    __main__.MyStaticMethod.__get__
    __main__.MyStaticMethod.__init__
    __main__.Test
2 items passed all tests:
   1 tests in __main__.Test.method1
   1 tests in __main__.Test.method2
2 tests in 7 items.
2 passed and 0 failed.
Test passed.


It doesn't even see method3, let alone run the tests.


This looks like  bug to me. Have I missed anything?

Any work arounds?



-- 
Steven


From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb  6 07:09:06 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:09:06 +0100
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6d5be2$0$21960$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,



Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>>
>> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with
>> CTRL-C
>>
>> The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under
>> Windows)
>>
>> If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
>> It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
>> function.
> 
> Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
> On previous versions you may use this:]



I', using python 2.6.4 nd neither on Win-XP nor on Win-7 I'm capable to
abort with CTR-C ?


On Linux however I can use CTRL-C .


> 
> class MyXMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer):
> 
>     ... your methods ...
> 
>     if not hasattr(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, 'shutdown'):
> 
>         # pre 2.6
>         quit = False
> 
>         def serve_forever(self):
>             while not self.quit:
>                 self.handle_request()
> 
>         def shutdown(self):
>             self.quit = True
> 
>         def server_bind(self):
>             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
>             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)
> 


I tried something similiar, but without setting the socket timeout.
I'll try it now with.


N



From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 07:10:48 2010
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:10:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: "Nim" game being created, no GUI used... Need tips...
References: <1b07ab151002051954hf3c946bqf4f306184228da40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkjm88$ne4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:54:48 -0600, Jordan Uchima wrote:

Hello Jordan,

You could try something like this (not tested, and maybe I don't 
quite "get" the rules):

"""
Nim game.

In response to question on c.l.p.

"""

# Start with pot of thirteen pieces and two players.
# Each player takes 1 - 4 pieces each turn.
# Player who takes the last piece loses.


# Declare constants.
NUMBER_OF_PLAYERS = 2
TOTAL_PIECES_AT_START = 13

# Declare functions.

def rules():
    """Print the rules of the game."""
    print 'Some rules'

def get_players():
    """Get the names of the players."""
    # Let's put the player's names in a list.
    players = []
    # Looping like this saves us repeating lines of code for each player.
    for player in range(NUMBER_OF_PLAYERS):
        name = raw_input("Hello Player %d, what is your name?\n" % player)
        players.append(player)
    return players

def take_turn(player):
    """Handle a player's turn."""
    # Turn logic goes here.
    # Left as an exercise :)
    the_remaining_number_of_pieces_after_this_turn = 1
    return the_remaining_number_of_pieces_after_this_turn
        

def main():
    """Run the game."""
    # Display the rules by calling rules function.
    rules()
    # Get the players by calling the get_players function.
    players = get_players()
    # Set up the game.
    remaining_pieces = TOTAL_PIECES_AT_START
    playing = True
    # Main loop - let's play!
    while playing:
        # Take turns.
        for player in players:
            remaining_pieces = take_turn(player)
            # Check if this player has lost.
            if remaining_pieces == 0:
                # Player has taken last piece.
                print 'Sorry %s, you have lost.' % player
                # Break out of the loop
                playing = False
                break


# Automatically run main function if we're run as a script.
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

# End.

The "while" loop in the main function runs the game until a winner
(or loser in this case) is declared.  The "for" loop within the while 
loop handles the alternation of turns.  Have a look at the python 
tutorial at http://docs.python.org/tutorial/index.html for more on 
"while" and "for" statements.

Use functions to break up the code into related sections.  Check out 
the tutorial material for functions too.

This skeleton should give you a starting structure for your program.

Have fun :)

Kev




From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 08:09:10 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 08:09:10 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
In-Reply-To: <29236418-FA36-49FB-A45B-AA414A21AE79@declaresub.com>
References: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
	<5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>
	<29236418-FA36-49FB-A45B-AA414A21AE79@declaresub.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002060509w56f9fce1wf72dc56d7a70d3cb@mail.gmail.com>

If you browse the Python source tree, you should be able to find it.

http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/exceptions.c?revision=77045&view=markup

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Charles Yeomans <charles at declaresub.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Gerald Britton wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Charles Yeomans <charles at declaresub.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am so far unable to find the information I want about the Exception
>>> class.
>>> ?Information like the signature of __init__ seems to be unavailable. ?Any
>>> suggestions where I might find such information?
>>>
>>
>> Though not documented, some silly tests indicate that it will accept
>> pretty much anything:
>>
>>>>> Exception(1,2,4,54)
>>
>> Exception(1, 2, 4, 54)
>>>>>
>>>>> Exception(*range(10))
>>
>> Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
>>>>>
>>>>> Exception(*range(50))
>>
>> Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
>> 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33,
>> 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49)
>>>>>
>>>>> Exception('a','b','c','d','e')
>>
>> Exception('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e')
>>>>>
>>>>> Exception(Exception(1))
>>
>> Exception(Exception(1,),)
>
> I had also tried such tests. ?If you pass a single argument msg, it is
> assigned to the message property, and the args property is set to (msg,). If
> you pass more than one argument, the tuple of arguments is assigned to the
> args property, and nothing is assigned to the message property. ?I was
> hoping to at least find source code that provides a definitive answer.
>
>
> Charles Yeomans
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Sat Feb  6 08:33:57 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:33:57 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <4B6D50CA.5070006@bluewin.ch>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>	<op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
	<4B6D50CA.5070006@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <4B6D6FC5.3000705@bluewin.ch>

Gabriel,
   After reinstalling the whole package things are shaping up. It still 
doesn't work but it fails more to the point of your suggestions. I 
update the responses to your questions:

Anthra Norell wrote:
> Gabriel,
>   Thanks for your hints. I take them up one by one:
>
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:23:57 -0300, Anthra Norell
>> <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> escribi?:
>>
>>>>>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>>>>>    window. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
>>>>> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
>>>>> tips?
>>
>> I'd suggest a couple more tests.
>> Open the Python interpreter and execute:
>>
>> py> from idlelib import idle
>>
>> This *should* launch IDLE, or raise an error... 
>
 >>> import idle
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:/PYTHON25/lib/IDLELIB\idle.py", line 19, in <module>
    PyShell.main()
  File "C:\Python25\Lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line 1390, in main
    root = Tk(className="Idle")
  File "C:\PYTHON25\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1647, in __init__
    self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, 
interactive, want
objects, useTk, sync, use)
_tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following 
directories:
    C:/PYTHON25/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library

Checking for the whereabouts of the tcl8.4 directory  I find it in 
C:/PYTHON25/TCL together with a few more plus some files.

C:\PYTHON25\TCL>dir


 Volume in drive C is PKBACK# 001
 Volume Serial Number is 07D1-0103
 Directory of C:\PYTHON25\TCL

.              <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p .
..             <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p ..
TCL84    LIB       191,802  03-27-06  4:23p tcl84.lib
TCLSTU~1 LIB         2,264  03-27-06  4:23p tclstub84.lib
DDE1     2     <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p DDE1.2
REG1     1     <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p REG1.1
TCL8     4     <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p TCL8.4
TK8      4     <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p TK8.4
TK84     LIB       167,288  03-27-06  4:44p tk84.lib
TKSTUB84 LIB         2,988  03-27-06  4:43p tkstub84.lib
TIX8     4     <DIR>        02-06-10  1:09p tix8.4
         4 file(s)        364,342 bytes
         7 dir(s)        2,569.25 MB free


This is the way the installer fixed it. The thing to do seems to be to 
move the tcl8.4 dirctory to the lib directory. Before I start upsetting 
things, perhaps you would know whether the whole TCL subtree should move.

Frederic



From toylet.toylet at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 08:41:52 2010
From: toylet.toylet at gmail.com (Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps))
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:41:52 +0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
In-Reply-To: <7xpr4ihf4w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>	<hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7xpr4ihf4w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hkjrj0$e1j$3@news.eternal-september.org>

> Eh?  Just about every interesting programming challenge is mostly about
> algorithm selection.  Try some Project Euler for example.

Everyone back then has abused the "programming" word to meant doing 
everything (algorithms (system analysis & design), data structures, 
coding, testing, documentation, auditing, ....) at cheap 
salaries+benefits and tight schedules!

-- 
   @~@   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
  / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10)  Linux 2.6.32.7
   ^ ^   21:40:01 up 7 days 5:46 2 users load average: 0.00 0.04 0.01
???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa


From toylet.toylet at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 08:43:28 2010
From: toylet.toylet at gmail.com (Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps))
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:43:28 +0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
In-Reply-To: <f1df3934-4604-49a1-bf11-7f3c885e10b1@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<f1df3934-4604-49a1-bf11-7f3c885e10b1@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkjrm3$gt1$1@news.eternal-september.org>

> Hello, this is Jeff Cameron, the organizer of the Google AI Challenge.
> I'm glad to see all this interest in our humble little contest. I wish
> you all the best of luck, and encourage everyone to try their hand at
> writing an AI for Tron! www.ai-contest.com

Someone please dumb the Tron ROM from the MAME32 project and use it as 
baseline answer. :)

-- 
   @~@   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
  / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10)  Linux 2.6.32.7
   ^ ^   21:42:01 up 7 days 5:48 2 users load average: 0.00 0.02 0.00
???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa


From wgaggioli at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 09:51:53 2010
From: wgaggioli at gmail.com (Sir Wilhelm the Sturdy)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 06:51:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Calendar GUI
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2033.1265439876.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4bb356ba-b043-444e-a318-6ec010028bb4@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 12:59?am, Michael Torrie <torr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Gabriel wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggi... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
> >> them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
> >> is acalendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
> >> staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
> >> action. Rather than writing acalendarguimyself, is there some open-source
> >>calendarprogram you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
> >> be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
> >> that something simple and clean is ideal.
>
> > I wrote a gtkguifor googlecalendar.
>
> > Maybe you can adapt it to your needs.
>
> >http://code.google.com/p/googlecalendar-gtk/
>
> Would this work without an internet connection? ?The original poster
> stated that internet isn't so reliable, hence the need for a local solution.

The functionality of Google calendar would be perfect, but it needs to
be run locally.


From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Sat Feb  6 10:45:39 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:45:39 -0600
Subject: Need installer recommendation
Message-ID: <6q2rm5htqdj2puinbg9pmkco8o6nhd72h5@4ax.com>

Hi,

I could use a recommendation on a free installer for use by an
unsophisticated programmer, that would be me, for some simple programs
which are a bit more than "Hello World," but only a little.  Basically
reading text files and processing the results.  Nothing fancy.  I am
using PY2EXE to create the distribution.

In doing the Google, and from past posting here, I see that most
recommendations are for inno and nsis.  I expect that either would do
what I want.  Is one a better choice for someone to learn enough to do
basic stuff without getting bogged down in details which are not
immediately important?


--
Alan


From charles at declaresub.com  Sat Feb  6 11:05:42 2010
From: charles at declaresub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:05:42 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002060509w56f9fce1wf72dc56d7a70d3cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
	<5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>
	<29236418-FA36-49FB-A45B-AA414A21AE79@declaresub.com>
	<5d1a32001002060509w56f9fce1wf72dc56d7a70d3cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35733041-2A61-4E19-9730-D5065CA6E826@declaresub.com>


On Feb 6, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:

> If you browse the Python source tree, you should be able to find it.
>
> http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/exceptions.c?revision=77045&view=markup
>


Perfect (even if I have to read C).  Thanks.

Charles Yeomans


From mark.wendell at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 12:19:46 2010
From: mark.wendell at gmail.com (mark.wendell)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 09:19:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: optparse print_help question
Message-ID: <db75fa98-8c61-42d7-8915-ab355896dd9a@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Is there a way to use the optparser parser.print_help() so that it
ONLY prints out the options, and NOT the usage?

thanks


From benjamin at python.org  Sat Feb  6 12:56:40 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:56:40 -0600
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 2.7 alpha 3
Message-ID: <1afaf6161002060956o4b303053pfd8b37922bea904f@mail.gmail.com>

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm cheerful to announce the third
alpha release of Python 2.7.

Python 2.7 is scheduled (by Guido and Python-dev) to be the last major version
in the 2.x series.  Though more major releases have not been absolutely ruled
out, it's likely that the 2.7 release will an extended period of maintenance for
the 2.x series.

2.7 includes many features that were first released in Python 3.1.  The faster
io module, the new nested with statement syntax, improved float repr, set
literals, dictionary views, and the memoryview object have been backported from
3.1. Other features include an ordered dictionary implementation, unittests
improvements, a new sysconfig module, and support for ttk Tile in Tkinter.  For
a more extensive list of changes in 2.7, see
http://doc.python.org/dev/whatsnew/2.7.html or Misc/NEWS in the Python
distribution.

To download Python 2.7 visit:

     http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/

Please note that this is a development release, intended as a preview of new
features for the community, and is thus not suitable for production use.

The 2.7 documentation can be found at:

     http://docs.python.org/2.7

Please consider trying Python 2.7 with your code and reporting any bugs you may
notice to:

     http://bugs.python.org


Enjoy!

--
Benjamin Peterson
2.7 Release Manager
benjamin at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 2.7's contributors)


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 13:24:21 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:24:21 -0500
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in a list?
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>

I'm working on a naive K-nearest-neighbors selection criteria for an optical
character recognition problem.

After I build my training set, I test each new image against against the
trained feature vectors and record the scores as follows:

match_vals = [(match_val_1, identifier_a), (match_val_2, identifier_b) ....
] and so on..

then I sort the list so the smallest match_val's appear first (indictating a
strong match, so I may end up with something like this:

[(match_val_291, identifier_b), (match_val_23, identifier_b), (match_val_22,
identifer_k) .... ]

Now, what I would like to do is step through this list and find the
identifier which appears first a K number of times.

Naively, I could make a dict and iterate through the list AND the dict at
the same time and keep a tally, breaking when the criteria is met.

such as:

def getnn(match_vals):
    tallies = defaultdict(lambda: 0)
    for match_val, ident in match_vals:
        tallies[ident] += 1
        for ident, tally in tallies.iteritems():
            if tally == 5:
                return ident

I would think there is a better way to do this. Any ideas?

Cheers!

Chris
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 13:54:09 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 00:24:09 +0530
Subject: how to fix bugs (python)
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061054v7b8542fcp54e1b6c7d1bf5dc7@mail.gmail.com>

I am interested in fixing bugs in python. Are there entry-level bugs in
python which makes me familiarize with the process just like gnome have
gnome-love ? Just a small start-up guidance will be a big favour as I have
never fixed any.

Thanks,
~l0nwlf
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 13:56:25 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:56:25 -0500
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in
	a list?
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkke0m$jih$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 1:24 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
> I'm working on a naive K-nearest-neighbors selection criteria for an
> optical character recognition problem.
>
> After I build my training set, I test each new image against against the
> trained feature vectors and record the scores as follows:
>
> match_vals = [(match_val_1, identifier_a), (match_val_2, identifier_b)
> .... ] and so on..
>
> then I sort the list so the smallest match_val's appear first
> (indictating a strong match, so I may end up with something like this:
>
> [(match_val_291, identifier_b), (match_val_23, identifier_b),
> (match_val_22, identifer_k) .... ]
>
> Now, what I would like to do is step through this list and find the
> identifier which appears first a K number of times.
>
> Naively, I could make a dict and iterate through the list AND the dict
> at the same time and keep a tally, breaking when the criteria is met.
>
> such as:
>
> def getnn(match_vals):
>      tallies = defaultdict(lambda: 0)
>      for match_val, ident in match_vals:
>          tallies[ident] += 1
>          for ident, tally in tallies.iteritems():
>              if tally == 5:
>                  return ident
>
> I would think there is a better way to do this. Any ideas?

You only need to check that the incremented tally is 5, which is to say, 
that the about-to-be-incremented tally is 4.
	t = tallies[ident]
         if t < 4: tallies[ident] = t+1
         else: return ident



From jjposner at optimum.net  Sat Feb  6 14:00:28 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:00:28 -0500
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
In-Reply-To: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6DBC4C.4080100@optimum.net>

On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> class MyStaticMethod(object):
>      """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor."""
>      def __init__(self, f):
>          self.f = f
>      def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
>          return self.f

How about using a function, instead of a class, to implement the decorator:

import functools
def MyStaticMethod(f):
     @functools.wraps(f)
     def _wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
         return f(*args, **kwargs)
     return _wrapper


For me, this produces the hoped-for doctest failure in 
__main__.Test.method3.

I tried making the class-based implementation work by using 
functools.wraps(), but I couldn't manage it. Also, doesn't the decorator 
protocol want the class to implement a __call__() method, not a 
__get__() method? Or am I getting hung up (not the first time) at the 
nexus of the descriptor and decorator protocols?

-John




From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Feb  6 14:03:47 2010
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:03:47 -0600
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkkeei$ku0$1@ger.gmane.org>



Xah Lee wrote:

> For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
> written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
> detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
> freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
> be found on my website, search for ?ban xah lee?.

Xah,

Often (in the past) most of your posts have come across as complaints or 
ones pointing out problems or comparisons of the negative sort.  Your 
overall negative tone is just one of the reasons you get labeled a troll.

I suggest you try to be less confrontational and more positive.  Use your 
expertise and intelligence to help others but don't be offended if they 
don't agree with you.  There's more than one way to do almost everything 
and sometimes the best way for "a person" to do it is the way that person 
is able to grasp it.

Regards,
   Ron



From wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de  Sat Feb  6 14:09:01 2010
From: wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de (Wolodja Wentland)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:09:01 +0100
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in a
	list?
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local>

On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 13:24 -0500, Chris Colbert wrote:
> [(match_val_291, identifier_b), (match_val_23, identifier_b), (match_val_22,
> identifer_k) .... ]
> 
> Now, what I would like to do is step through this list and find the identifier
> which appears first a K number of times.

I think you can use the itertools.groupby(L, lambda el: el[1]) to group
elements in your *sorted* list L by the value el[1] (i.e. the
identifier) and then iterate through these groups until you find the
desired number of instances grouped by the same identifier.

Let me exemplify this:

>>> from itertools import groupby
>>> instances = [(1, 'b'), (2, 'b'), (3, 'a'), (4, 'c'), (5, 'c'), (6, 'c'), (7, 'd')]
>>> k = 3
>>> grouped_by_identifier = groupby(instances, lambda el: el[1])
>>> grouped_by_identifier = ((identifier, list(group)) for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier)
>>> k_instances = (group for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier if len(group) == k)
>>> next(k_instances)
[(4, 'c'), (5, 'c'), (6, 'c')]
>>> next(k_instances)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<input>", line 1, in <module>
StopIteration

There are certainly millions of ways to do this and most of them will be
better than my proposal here, but you might like this approach. Another
approach would use itertools.takewhile() or itertools.ifilter() ... Just
have a look :-)

yours sincerely
-- 
  .''`.     Wolodja Wentland    <wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de> 
 : :'  :    
 `. `'`     4096R/CAF14EFC 
   `-       081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA  36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC
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From jim.hefferon at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:09:31 2010
From: jim.hefferon at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:09:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
Message-ID: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
syntax irregularities.

I am familiar with Beautiful Soup (use it all the time) but it is
intended to cope with bad syntax.  I just tried feeding
HTMLParser.HTMLParser some HTML containing '<p>a<b>b</p></b>' and it
didn't complain.

That is, this:
        h=HTMLParser.HTMLParser()
        try:
            h.feed('<p>a<b>b</p></b>')
            h.close()
            print "I expect not to see this line"
        except Exception, err:
            print "exception:",str(err)
gives me "I expect not to see this line".

Am I using that routine incorrectly?  Is there a natural Python choice
for this job?

Thanks,
Jim


From jim.hefferon at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:35:34 2010
From: jim.hefferon at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:35:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6dc27c$0$1608$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <f4f47199-af5c-4a89-be39-0b925ddd98ef@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

Thank you, John.  I did not find that by looking around; I must not
have used the right words.  The speed of the unit tests are not
critical so this seems like the solution for me.

Jim


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:36:46 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:36:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
Message-ID: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
output all the matches. For example, given ?[1|2|3]{2}? as the regular
expression, the program should output all 9 matches, i.e., "11 12 13
21 22 23 31 32 33".

Is there any well-written routine in Python or third-party program to
do this? If there isn't, could somebody make some suggestions on how
to write it myself?

Thanks.

Zhuo


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 14:39:00 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:39:00 -0500
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
In-Reply-To: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkkggh$qpc$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods
> which have been decorated.
>
>
> Here is my test file:
>
> # ======
> class MyStaticMethod(object):
>      """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor."""
>      def __init__(self, f):
>          self.f = f
>      def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
>          return self.f
>
> class Test(object):
>      def method1(self):
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print 'x'
>          x
>          """
>
>      @staticmethod
>      def method2():
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print 'y'
>          y
>          """
>
>      @MyStaticMethod
>      def method3():
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print '***'  # This test should fail.
>          z
>          """
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      import doctest
>      doctest.testmod(verbose=True)
> # ======
>
>
> and here is the output using Python 2.6.4:
>
> [steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 test_doctests.py
> Trying:
>      print 'x'
> Expecting:
>      x
> ok
> Trying:
>      print 'y'
> Expecting:
>      y
> ok
> 5 items had no tests:
>      __main__
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod.__get__
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod.__init__
>      __main__.Test
> 2 items passed all tests:
>     1 tests in __main__.Test.method1
>     1 tests in __main__.Test.method2
> 2 tests in 7 items.
> 2 passed and 0 failed.
> Test passed.
>
>
> It doesn't even see method3, let alone run the tests.

Method3 is wrapped as an instance of MyStaticMethod and doctest does not 
see that as function. Even if it did, you would might have to copy the 
docstring (self.__doc__ = f.__doc__) to have the test run.

Note the following: (3.1)

 >>> Test.method3
<function method3 at 0x00F5F7C8>
 >>> Test.__dict__['method3']
<__main__.MyStaticMethod object at 0x00F5CDF0>
 >>> Test.__dict__['method2']
<staticmethod object at 0x00F5C290>

Doctest has to scan the dict, so it does not see the attribute-lookup 
result.

> This looks like  bug to me. Have I missed anything?

I would call it a limitation as I do not see the doc as promising 
otherwise. I believe doctest predates the descripter protocol, at least 
in its current form, so it may not be completely descriptor-aware. You 
certainly could file a feature request for improved recognition and 
subsequent calling of __get__. An initial patch would improve chances of 
action.

 > Any workarounds?

Perhaps look at the doctest source to see why staticmethod instances are 
recognized as functions.

If doctest directly special-cases their recognition, then use the 
standard nested function approach for decorators, making sure to copy 
the doc string. Look at functools.wraps.

If doctest recognizes them by some characteristic that you have not 
emulated, try to improve that.

Terry Jan Reedy


Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 14:42:52 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:42:52 -0500
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in
	a list?
In-Reply-To: <20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local>
Message-ID: <hkkgno$re4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 2:09 PM, Wolodja Wentland wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 13:24 -0500, Chris Colbert wrote:
>> [(match_val_291, identifier_b), (match_val_23, identifier_b), (match_val_22,
>> identifer_k) .... ]
>>
>> Now, what I would like to do is step through this list and find the identifier
>> which appears first a K number of times.
>
> I think you can use the itertools.groupby(L, lambda el: el[1]) to group
> elements in your *sorted* list L by the value el[1] (i.e. the
> identifier) and then iterate through these groups until you find the
> desired number of instances grouped by the same identifier.

This will generally not return the same result. It depends on whether OP 
wants *any* item appearing at least 5 times or whether the order is 
significant and the OP literally wants the first. Sorting the entire 
list may also take a *lot* longer.

Terry Jan Reedy



From nagle at animats.com  Sat Feb  6 14:43:19 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:43:19 -0800
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
In-Reply-To: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6dc27c$0$1608$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Jim wrote:
> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
> syntax irregularities.
> 
> I am familiar with Beautiful Soup (use it all the time) but it is
> intended to cope with bad syntax.  I just tried feeding
> HTMLParser.HTMLParser some HTML containing '<p>a<b>b</p></b>' and it
> didn't complain.

    Try HTML5lib.

	http://code.google.com/p/html5lib/downloads/list

The syntax for HTML5 has well-defined notions of "correct",
"fixable", and "unparseable".  For example, the common but
incorrect form of HTML comments,

	<- comment ->

is understood.

HTML5lib is slow, though.  Sometimes very slow.  It's really a reference 
implementation of the spec.  There's code like this:

     #Should speed up this check somehow (e.g. move the set to a constant)
             if ((0x0001 <= charAsInt <= 0x0008) or
                 (0x000E <= charAsInt <= 0x001F) or
                 (0x007F  <= charAsInt <= 0x009F) or
                 (0xFDD0  <= charAsInt <= 0xFDEF) or
                 charAsInt in frozenset([0x000B, 0xFFFE, 0xFFFF, 0x1FFFE,
                                         0x1FFFF, 0x2FFFE, 0x2FFFF, 0x3FFFE,
                                         0x3FFFF, 0x4FFFE, 0x4FFFF, 0x5FFFE,
                                         0x5FFFF, 0x6FFFE, 0x6FFFF, 0x7FFFE,
                                         0x7FFFF, 0x8FFFE, 0x8FFFF, 0x9FFFE,
                                         0x9FFFF, 0xAFFFE, 0xAFFFF, 0xBFFFE,
                                         0xBFFFF, 0xCFFFE, 0xCFFFF, 0xDFFFE,
                                         0xDFFFF, 0xEFFFE, 0xEFFFF, 0xFFFFE,
                                         0xFFFFF, 0x10FFFE, 0x10FFFF])):
                 self.tokenQueue.append({"type": tokenTypes["ParseError"],
                                         "data":
                                          "illegal-codepoint-for-numeric-entity",
                                         "datavars": {"charAsInt": charAsInt}})

Every time through the loop (once per character), they build that frozen
set again.


				John Nagle


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 14:49:29 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:49:29 -0500
Subject: how to fix bugs (python)
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002061054v7b8542fcp54e1b6c7d1bf5dc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002061054v7b8542fcp54e1b6c7d1bf5dc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkkh46$sf2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 1:54 PM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> I am interested in fixing bugs in python. Are there entry-level bugs in
> python which makes me familiarize with the process just like gnome have
> gnome-love ? Just a small start-up guidance will be a big favour as I
> have never fixed any.

Go to
python.org/dev/
and look at various pages there. The item tracker is at
bugs.python.org
Some items are marked easy. Many items have patches that need review. 
Help is needed both with Python code (modules) and C code (core and 
modules) depending on your abilities and interest. I would start with 
looking at current items on the tracker.

Terry Jan Reedy



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:58:47 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:28:47 +0530
Subject: how to fix bugs (python)
In-Reply-To: <hkkh46$sf2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d4ab53de1002061054v7b8542fcp54e1b6c7d1bf5dc7@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkkh46$sf2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061158g7cf7c76dk49a65703ff03b195@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Terry. I am looking on it. :)


On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 2/6/2010 1:54 PM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> I am interested in fixing bugs in python. Are there entry-level bugs in
>> python which makes me familiarize with the process just like gnome have
>> gnome-love ? Just a small start-up guidance will be a big favour as I
>> have never fixed any.
>>
>
> Go to
> python.org/dev/
> and look at various pages there. The item tracker is at
> bugs.python.org
> Some items are marked easy. Many items have patches that need review. Help
> is needed both with Python code (modules) and C code (core and modules)
> depending on your abilities and interest. I would start with looking at
> current items on the tracker.
>
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From wgaggioli at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 15:06:04 2010
From: wgaggioli at gmail.com (Sir Wilhelm the Sturdy)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:06:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Subclassing datetime.date
Message-ID: <d2ac5323-d5aa-4448-a289-eeb7d501bb19@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I recently attempted to subclass the datetime.date object resulting in
horror and confusion, before submitting to a has-a relationship.
That's all fine and dandy, but out of curiosity I'd like to know what
I'm missing.

I was attempting to allow more flexible instancing of an object, like
so:

import datetime

class MyDate(datetime.date):

    def __init__(self,*args,**kw):

        if len(kw) + len(args) > 1:
            self.construct(*args,**kw)

    def construct(self,d,m=None,y=None,**kw):

        today = datetime.date.today()
        if m is None:
            m = today.month
        if y is None:
            y = today.year

        datetime.date.__init__(self,y,m,d,**kw)


However, it wasn't having the desired effect. Indeed, I could still
only instance it with 3 variables lest I get errors, and when I did
call it with 3 variables it didn't reflect the order change I had
implemented. Indeed, the properties were already set before it even
got to the construct method.

Is there some kind of built in I'm missing here?

Thanks all,
Will


From wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de  Sat Feb  6 15:25:40 2010
From: wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de (Wolodja Wentland)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:25:40 +0100
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in a
	list?
In-Reply-To: <hkkgno$re4$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local> <hkkgno$re4$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20100206202540.GC2508@kinakuta.local>

On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 14:42 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/6/2010 2:09 PM, Wolodja Wentland wrote:

> >I think you can use the itertools.groupby(L, lambda el: el[1]) to group
> >elements in your *sorted* list L by the value el[1] (i.e. the
> >identifier) and then iterate through these groups until you find the
> >desired number of instances grouped by the same identifier.

> This will generally not return the same result. It depends on
> whether OP wants *any* item appearing at least 5 times or whether
> the order is significant and the OP literally wants the first.

Order is preserved by itertools.groupby - Have a look:

>>> instances = [(1, 'b'), (2, 'b'), (3, 'a'), (4, 'c'), (5, 'c'), (6, 'c'), (7, 'b'), (8, 'b')]
>>> grouped_by_identifier = groupby(instances, lambda el: el[1])
>>> grouped_by_identifier = ((identifier, list(group)) for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier)
>>> k_instances = (group for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier if len(group) == 2)
>>> for group in k_instances:
...     print group
... 
[(1, 'b'), (2, 'b')]
[(7, 'b'), (8, 'b')]

So the first element yielded by the k_instances generator will be the
first group of elements from the original list whose identifier appears
exactly k times in a row. 

> Sorting the entire list may also take a *lot* longer.
Than what? 

Am I missing something? Is the "*sorted*" the culprit? If yes -> Just
forget it as it is not relevant.
-- 
  .''`.     Wolodja Wentland    <wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de> 
 : :'  :    
 `. `'`     4096R/CAF14EFC 
   `-       081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA  36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC
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From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 15:31:52 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:31:52 +0100
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
Message-ID: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Just trying to delve into the CPython source code.

Pleasant surprise: while e.g. the gcc compiler is written in K&R C (1975 style 
C), CPython seems to be written in almost modern C (1989 and on).

But, hey, TABS used for indenting, combined haphazardly and randomly with SPACES 
used for indenting, in the same source files...

The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4, as is 
common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers configure their 
Visual Studio's to *nix convention. Or perhaps modern Visual Studio has default 
tab size 8, it wouldn't surprise me (the best version was the MSVC 6.0 Developer 
Studio, since then that IDE has only gone downhill being re-based on the Office 
Assistant inspired "for dummies" IDE that Microsoft had for web designers).

Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g. the Boost 
library project does  --  no tabs allowed.

That's much more platform-independent. :-)


Cheers,

- Alf


From david at boddie.org.uk  Sat Feb  6 15:52:20 2010
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:52:20 +0100
Subject: PyQt4 designer custom properties - combo box style
References: <f96f074b-69c9-4aca-8a81-483282d8f6eb@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkfjh0$156$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
	<ac938b8e-b7d1-49e9-b279-57daaf956730@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkkkq4$8ju$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>

On Saturday 06 February 2010 10:32, Andrew wrote:

> I'm attempting to create a drop down property for a custom widget I'm
> creating. So when in designer and you scroll down to the custom
> properties, under the regular widget properties, one of them would be
> a drop down menu. The data to populate it will be coming from our API
> and currently is a list of string-items. Yes, it would be treated
> specially by Designer, since it's the only place it would be seen.

Right. The drop down menus in the property editor usually contain values
defined for C++ enums which have been declared to Qt's meta-object system
when a C++ library or plugin is compiled. I'm not sure that PyQt can expose
lists of Python values in the same way.

An example of this is the alignment property in QLineEdit.

> In the PyQt4\examples\designer folder, it carries a number of custom
> widgets that will load into designer. The datetimeedit widget creates
> a custom drop down menu property. The plugin pulls its information
> from the QtCore libraries and from the QCalander Widget. Though I am
> unable to find a better example or even explanation of how it's
> actually creating that drop down menu.

Each of the individual properties are just single values, aren't they, not
collections of values?

>> Have you seen this article?
>>
>> http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qq/qq26-pyqtdesigner.html
> 
> No, I haven't, thanks. That might step in the right direction. I can't
> run it right now, so I'm not sure if it is putting a spinbox as it's
> property or just the value from the spin box.

The value from each spin box is turned into a property, so there are
latitude and longitude properties, though each of these only holds
a double precision floating point number. It sounds like you want to be
able to select from a list of values, or possibly change the values
themselves.

If it turns out you can't add a property to Qt Designer in the way you want,
you can still add a custom editor to the widget so that users can open a
context menu and select an item to configure it. This is similar to the way
you can open a dialog to edit the text inside QTextEdit widgets.

The article I referred to also covers this:

  http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qq/qq26-pyqtdesigner.html#makingamenu

David


From user at example.net  Sat Feb  6 16:02:07 2010
From: user at example.net (monkeys paw)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:02:07 -0500
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>

mukesh tiwari wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
> stupid.
> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> 10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> than log N.

How do you arrive at log N as the performance number?

> 
> def power(A,N,M):
>     ret=1
>     while(N):
>         if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
>         A=(A*A)%M
>         N=N//2
>     return ret


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 16:05:27 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:05:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <a8db585b-337f-41f7-a6c1-3223c89137f5@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 9:31?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> Just trying to delve into the CPython source code.
>
> Pleasant surprise: while e.g. the gcc compiler is written in K&R C (1975 style
> C), CPython seems to be written in almost modern C (1989 and on).
>
> But, hey, TABS used for indenting, combined haphazardly and randomly with SPACES
> used for indenting, in the same source files...
>
> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4, as is
> common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers configure their
> Visual Studio's to *nix convention. Or perhaps modern Visual Studio has default
> tab size 8, it wouldn't surprise me (the best version was the MSVC 6.0 Developer
> Studio, since then that IDE has only gone downhill being re-based on the Office
> Assistant inspired "for dummies" IDE that Microsoft had for web designers).
>
> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g. the Boost
> library project does ?-- ?no tabs allowed.
>
> That's much more platform-independent. :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf

So what's stopping you from doing this yourself?


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 16:12:05 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:12:05 +0100
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <a8db585b-337f-41f7-a6c1-3223c89137f5@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a8db585b-337f-41f7-a6c1-3223c89137f5@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkklv9$o9i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Andrej Mitrovic:
> On Feb 6, 9:31 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> Just trying to delve into the CPython source code.
>>
>> Pleasant surprise: while e.g. the gcc compiler is written in K&R C (1975 style
>> C), CPython seems to be written in almost modern C (1989 and on).
>>
>> But, hey, TABS used for indenting, combined haphazardly and randomly with SPACES
>> used for indenting, in the same source files...
>>
>> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4, as is
>> common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers configure their
>> Visual Studio's to *nix convention. Or perhaps modern Visual Studio has default
>> tab size 8, it wouldn't surprise me (the best version was the MSVC 6.0 Developer
>> Studio, since then that IDE has only gone downhill being re-based on the Office
>> Assistant inspired "for dummies" IDE that Microsoft had for web designers).
>>
>> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g. the Boost
>> library project does  --  no tabs allowed.
>>
>> That's much more platform-independent. :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Alf
> 
> So what's stopping you from doing this yourself?

Depends what "this" you're referring to.

If by "this" you mean, automatically converting tabs to spaces on checking out a 
newer version of a CPython source file, nothing in particular stops anyone from 
doing that. But it's needless work, and it results in "false positive" changes 
when checking in something. That's why e.g. Boost standardizes on spaces.

If by "this" you mean, changing the coding guidelines (if such exist) for the 
CPython project, well I'm not involved, so the best I can do is to float the 
idea and point to existing practice in other projects, which I've now done. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 16:19:18 2010
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:19:18 GMT
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Alf P. Steinbach:

> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.

   Most of the core developers use Unix.

> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g.
> the Boost library project does  --  no tabs allowed.

   This would damage the usefulness of source control histories (svn
annotate) as all of the converted lines would show this recent cosmetic
change rather than the previous change which is likely to be a
substantive modification.

   Neil


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb  6 16:42:29 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:42:29 -0600
Subject: Subclassing datetime.date
References: <d2ac5323-d5aa-4448-a289-eeb7d501bb19@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87vdea9h2y.fsf@castleamber.com>

Sir Wilhelm the Sturdy <wgaggioli at gmail.com> writes:

F> Hi all,
>
> I recently attempted to subclass the datetime.date object resulting in
> horror and confusion, before submitting to a has-a relationship.
> That's all fine and dandy, but out of curiosity I'd like to know what
> I'm missing.
>
> I was attempting to allow more flexible instancing of an object, like
> so:
>
> import datetime
>
> class MyDate(datetime.date):
>
>     def __init__(self,*args,**kw):
>
>         if len(kw) + len(args) > 1:
>             self.construct(*args,**kw)
>
>     def construct(self,d,m=None,y=None,**kw):
>
>         today = datetime.date.today()
>         if m is None:
>             m = today.month
>         if y is None:
>             y = today.year
>
>         datetime.date.__init__(self,y,m,d,**kw)
>
>
> However, it wasn't having the desired effect. Indeed, I could still
> only instance it with 3 variables lest I get errors, and when I did
> call it with 3 variables it didn't reflect the order change I had
> implemented. Indeed, the properties were already set before it even
> got to the construct method.

__init__ is *not* the construction method, __new__ is (at least with new
style classes)

> Is there some kind of built in I'm missing here?

I guess __new__ but I am quite the newbie.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb  6 16:44:56 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:44:56 -0600
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <87r5oy9gyv.fsf@castleamber.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:

> Just trying to delve into the CPython source code.
>
> Pleasant surprise: while e.g. the gcc compiler is written in K&R C
> (1975 style C), CPython seems to be written in almost modern C (1989
> and on).
>
> But, hey, TABS used for indenting, combined haphazardly and randomly
> with SPACES used for indenting, in the same source files...
>
> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size
> 4, as is common in Windows.

Then you are either used a broken editor or a misconfigured editor. I've
used TextPad for ages, and it can be configured to hard tab 8 (might
even be the default [1]).


[1] With Perl coding I configured it to indent 4 spaces, hard tab 4
    spaces and convert hard tabs to 4 spaces while saving, so no surprises.
-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb  6 16:45:01 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:45:01 +0100
Subject: how to add pydoc strings to 'Data and other attributes'
Message-ID: <4b6de2de$0$4830$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

I'm having some problems with pydoc and I was not very sucessful in
googling. (probably missng one key word)

Is there soemthing like a documentation of pydoc (execpt pydocs output
of pydoc,  which doesn't seem to answer my question )

I can add docstrings to
- the file head
- to a class
- to a class function
- to a property

but I don't know how document a class attribute (like 'name' ) in my
example below


Does anybody know how to doc it?

# file starts here

#
#############################################################################
# This appears in the python documentation
#
#############################################################################

__author__ = 'News123' # this will also be part of pydoc

""" general blabla will not be part of pydoc"""

class MyClass(object):
    """ This class can be doc-ed """

    name = 3 ### I don't know how to document this

    def get_f(self):
        """ the function get_f is here """
        return 3

    f = property(get_f,doc="this property is also documented")

######### file ends here


thanks for any help


N


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:08:55 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:08:55 +0000
Subject: Code snippet: dualmethod descriptor
References: <0373b8b9$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1876.1265252957.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4e6e5$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <m2d40iyq2w.fsf@googlemail.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:09:02 -0300, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>
>> En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:06:18 -0300, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> escribi?:
>> 
>>> class dualmethod(object):
> [...]
>
>> Seems useful!
>> Perhaps a better place to post it would be
>> <http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/>, at least it's
>> easier to search.
>
>
>
> Thank you for the encouragement. The recipe is now posted:
>
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577030/

Oddly, in Python 3 you can achieve something a bit similar very simply:

>>> class A:
...     def foo(self=None):
...         return "Instance" if self else "Class"
... 
>>> A.foo()
'Class'
>>> a = A()
>>> a.foo()
'Instance'

It works in python 3 because unbound methods are plain functions.

-- 
Arnaud


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:22:47 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:22:47 +0000
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
>> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>> two functions.
>>>>
>>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>>>
>>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>>
>> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
>> underline=true) to be split into:
>>
>> drawtext(s)
>> drawtextb(s)
>> drawtexti(s)
>> drawtextu(s)
>> drawtextbi(s)
>> drawtextbu(s)
>> drawtextiu(s)
>> drawtextbiu(s)
>
> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
> separate functions.

Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.

-- 
Arnaud


From roy at panix.com  Sat Feb  6 17:23:01 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:23:01 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article 
<ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5 at r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
 "hzhuo1 at gmail.com" <hzhuo1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
> Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
> output all the matches. For example, given ?[1|2|3]{2}? as the regular
> expression, the program should output all 9 matches, i.e., "11 12 13
> 21 22 23 31 32 33".
> 
> Is there any well-written routine in Python or third-party program to
> do this? If there isn't, could somebody make some suggestions on how
> to write it myself?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Zhuo

Please enumerate all the strings which match ".*".  Use additional sheets 
of paper if needed.


From benjamin at python.org  Sat Feb  6 17:26:55 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:26:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <loom.20100206T232627-581@post.gmane.org>

Neil Hodgson <nyamatongwe+thunder <at> gmail.com> writes:
>    This would damage the usefulness of source control histories (svn
> annotate) as all of the converted lines would show this recent cosmetic
> change rather than the previous change which is likely to be a
> substantive modification.

That's not completely true given svn diff -x -w.






From benjamin at python.org  Sat Feb  6 17:28:17 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:28:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20100206T232708-310@post.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach <alfps <at> start.no> writes:

> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces

This has been discussed to death of Python-dev. We use spaces for all new files
and tabs for historical reasons in old files. Mixed ones should be converted one
way or the other.

> 
> That's much more platform-independent. 






From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:28:44 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 03:58:44 +0530
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061428v2489b625ubabbab32fdcd6434@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, it can be done. Have a look at :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_exponentiation
The algorithm is also mentioned in CLRS.I tried writing my own
modular-exponentiation code following CLRS but observed that python pow()
function is much more efficient.
Have a look at this problem : https://www.spoj.pl/problems/LASTDIG/
as you can see ( https://www.spoj.pl/status/LASTDIG,l0nwlf/ )my first
solution used algorithm hard-coded from CLRS which took 0.04 sec however
using pow() function directly improved the efficiency to 0.0 So I would
suggest to go for pow() unless you intend to learn modular exponentiation
algorithm for which hand-coding is a must.

here are my solutions :
first one (hand-coded):


   1. def pow(a, b):
   2.     if( not b):
   3. 	 return 1
   4.     if( b & 1 ):
   5. 	 return ( pow( a, b - 1 ) * a ) % 10
   6.
   7.     tmp = pow( a, b / 2 )
   8.     return ( tmp * tmp ) % 10;
   9.
   10. for i in xrange(input()):
   11.          a,b = [ int(x) for x in raw_input().split(' ')]
   12.          print( pow( a % 10, b ) )


second one (pow()):


   1. for i in range(int(raw_input())):
   2.         a,b = [int(x) for x in raw_input().split()]
   3.         print pow (a,b,10)
   4.


HTH
~l0nwlf

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:32 AM, monkeys paw <user at example.net> wrote:

> mukesh tiwari wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
>> stupid.
>> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
>> is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
>> 10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
>> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
>> than log N.
>>
>
> How do you arrive at log N as the performance number?
>
>
>
>> def power(A,N,M):
>>    ret=1
>>    while(N):
>>        if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
>>        A=(A*A)%M
>>        N=N//2
>>    return ret
>>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:31:28 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:01:28 +0530
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002061428v2489b625ubabbab32fdcd6434@mail.gmail.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
	<d4ab53de1002061428v2489b625ubabbab32fdcd6434@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061431p5bc119c7x395fb33057df5394@mail.gmail.com>

a nice exercise to do can be this problem :
http://www.codechef.com/MARCH09/problems/A4/ , it deals with both cases,
first and last k digits and can be performed within O(log n)

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 3:58 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> Yes, it can be done. Have a look at :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_exponentiation
> The algorithm is also mentioned in CLRS.I tried writing my own
> modular-exponentiation code following CLRS but observed that python pow()
> function is much more efficient.
> Have a look at this problem : https://www.spoj.pl/problems/LASTDIG/
> as you can see ( https://www.spoj.pl/status/LASTDIG,l0nwlf/ )my first
> solution used algorithm hard-coded from CLRS which took 0.04 sec however
> using pow() function directly improved the efficiency to 0.0 So I would
> suggest to go for pow() unless you intend to learn modular exponentiation
> algorithm for which hand-coding is a must.
>
> here are my solutions :
> first one (hand-coded):
>
>
>    1. def pow(a, b):
>    2.     if( not b):
>    3. 	 return 1
>    4.     if( b & 1 ):
>    5. 	 return ( pow( a, b - 1 ) * a ) % 10
>
>    6.
>    7.     tmp = pow( a, b / 2 )
>    8.     return ( tmp * tmp ) % 10;
>    9.
>    10. for i in xrange(input()):
>    11.          a,b = [ int(x) for x in raw_input().split(' ')]
>
>    12.          print( pow( a % 10, b ) )
>
>
> second one (pow()):
>
>
>    1. for i in range(int(raw_input())):
>
>    2.         a,b = [int(x) for x in raw_input().split()]
>
>    3.         print pow (a,b,10)
>    4.
>
>
> HTH
> ~l0nwlf
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:32 AM, monkeys paw <user at example.net> wrote:
>
>> mukesh tiwari wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
>>> stupid.
>>> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
>>> is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
>>> 10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
>>> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
>>> than log N.
>>>
>>
>> How do you arrive at log N as the performance number?
>>
>>
>>
>>> def power(A,N,M):
>>>    ret=1
>>>    while(N):
>>>        if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
>>>        A=(A*A)%M
>>>        N=N//2
>>>    return ret
>>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 17:40:53 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:40:53 -0500
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in
	a list?
In-Reply-To: <20100206202540.GC2508@kinakuta.local>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>	<20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local>
	<hkkgno$re4$1@ger.gmane.org> <20100206202540.GC2508@kinakuta.local>
Message-ID: <hkkr5h$ohi$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 3:25 PM, Wolodja Wentland wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 14:42 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 2/6/2010 2:09 PM, Wolodja Wentland wrote:
>
>>> I think you can use the itertools.groupby(L, lambda el: el[1]) to group
>>> elements in your *sorted* list L by the value el[1] (i.e. the
>>> identifier) and then iterate through these groups until you find the
>>> desired number of instances grouped by the same identifier.
>
>> This will generally not return the same result. It depends on
>> whether OP wants *any* item appearing at least 5 times or whether
>> the order is significant and the OP literally wants the first.
>
> Order is preserved by itertools.groupby - Have a look:

Sorting does not.
>
>>>> instances = [(1, 'b'), (2, 'b'), (3, 'a'), (4, 'c'), (5, 'c'), (6, 'c'), (7, 'b'), (8, 'b')]
>>>> grouped_by_identifier = groupby(instances, lambda el: el[1])
>>>> grouped_by_identifier = ((identifier, list(group)) for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier)
>>>> k_instances = (group for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier if len(group) == 2)
>>>> for group in k_instances:
> ...     print group
> ...
> [(1, 'b'), (2, 'b')]
> [(7, 'b'), (8, 'b')]
>
> So the first element yielded by the k_instances generator will be the
> first group of elements from the original list whose identifier appears
> exactly k times in a row.
>
>> Sorting the entire list may also take a *lot* longer.
> Than what?

Than linearly scanning for the first 5x item, as in my corrected version 
of the original code.

Terry Jan Reedy



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Feb  6 17:43:23 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:43:23 +1100
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <87eikykmt0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

>  "hzhuo1 at gmail.com" <hzhuo1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What I need is that given a particular regular expression, output
> > all the matches.
[?]

> Please enumerate all the strings which match ".*". Use additional
> sheets of paper if needed.

+1 QOTW

-- 
 \     ?Are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?I think so, ... Brain, |
  `\    but how can we get seven dwarves to shave their legs?? ?_Pinky |
_o__)                                                   and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Sat Feb  6 17:53:53 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:53:53 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
Message-ID: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>

Hello all

When I create an Object and set its __iter__ method from outside

s = Sequence #one of my own classes
s.__iter__ = new.instancemethod(f,s,Sequence)

I get different results, depending on whether I call


for x in y.__iter__():
    print x

or

for x in y:
    print x

The first case does what I expected, i.e. it iterates over whatever f()
yields. In the second case nothing is printed. I have the impression
that it still calls the original __iter__() method (the one defined at
the class level).

Why is that so?
How can I replace the __iter__() method so it does what I want.

The reason I want to do such things is I need to implement operations
similar to what itertools do. However I want my own classes and the
operations are only similar to itertools, but differ in significant
details.


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Feb  6 17:59:44 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:59:44 -0500
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6DF460.8020403@ieee.org>

monkeys paw wrote:
> <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">mukesh 
> tiwari wrote:
>> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
>> stupid.
>> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
>> is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
>> 10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
>> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
>> than log N.
>
> How do you arrive at log N as the performance number?
>
>>
>> def power(A,N,M):
>>     ret=1
>>     while(N):
>>         if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
>>         A=(A*A)%M
>>         N=N//2
>>     return ret
>
Because the N= N/2 operation in the loop means that the number of loops 
is equal to the number of  bits in N, or the log-base-2 of N.

DaveA


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 18:03:25 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Feb 2010 23:03:25 GMT
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B6DBC4C.4080100@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <037de16f$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:00:28 -0500, John Posner wrote:

> On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> class MyStaticMethod(object):
>>      """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor.""" 
>>      def __init__(self, f):
>>          self.f = f
>>      def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
>>          return self.f
> 
> How about using a function, instead of a class, to implement the
> decorator:

I've had problems with function decorators and doctest in the past. If I 
remember the problem correctly, functools.wraps changing the __module__ 
of the wrapped function, making it look like it came from the functool 
module, and so doctest would not run the tests. But it seems that has 
been fixed in 2.6: I can confirm your version works as expected.

Nevertheless, I think it is a limitation of doctest that it doesn't see 
methods using the descriptor protocol. Even if I could work around my 
immediate issue by using a function decorator (and I don't think I can) 
I'd still want to fix this problem.


> I tried making the class-based implementation work by using
> functools.wraps(), but I couldn't manage it. 

Me neither. I think the problem is that the doctest.DocTestFinder class 
doesn't find descriptor-based methods. It special cases staticmethod, 
classmethod and property.



> Also, doesn't the decorator
> protocol want the class to implement a __call__() method, not a
> __get__() method? Or am I getting hung up (not the first time) at the
> nexus of the descriptor and decorator protocols?

In this case, I'm actually using a descriptor as the decorator.

The descriptor is called at attribute lookup, before the method is 
called. __get__ returns a function, which has a __call__ method, and it 
should all just work.



-- 
Steven


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sat Feb  6 18:30:30 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:30:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<loom.20100206T232627-581@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkku2m$uul$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:26:55 +0000, Benjamin Peterson a ?crit?:
> Neil Hodgson <nyamatongwe+thunder <at> gmail.com> writes:
>>    This would damage the usefulness of source control histories (svn
>> annotate) as all of the converted lines would show this recent cosmetic
>> change rather than the previous change which is likely to be a
>> substantive modification.
> 
> That's not completely true given svn diff -x -w.

That's even less true given we aren't ashamed to make other kinds of 
cosmetic changes when desired, even though it also "damages the 
usefulness of source control histories" ;-)




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 18:35:11 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Feb 2010 23:35:11 GMT
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:53:53 +0100, Martin Drautzburg wrote:

> Hello all
> 
> When I create an Object and set its __iter__ method from outside
> 
> s = Sequence #one of my own classes
> s.__iter__ = new.instancemethod(f,s,Sequence)

I'm confused as to why you are aliasing your class before changing it. 
The above just makes s an alternative name for Sequence.

Did you mean this?

s = Sequence() # make an instance of the class


> I get different results, depending on whether I call
> 
> 
> for x in y.__iter__():
>     print x

What's y? Where does it come from? Is y supposed to be an instance of 
Sequence?


> or
> 
> for x in y:
>     print x
> 
> The first case does what I expected, i.e. it iterates over whatever f()
> yields. In the second case nothing is printed. I have the impression
> that it still calls the original __iter__() method (the one defined at
> the class level).

Yes, that's almost certainly what is happening. As an optimization, 
Python bypasses the instance for special methods __NAME__.


> Why is that so?
> How can I replace the __iter__() method so it does what I want.

The best solution is, find another way to do what you want.

The clunky solution is to use delegation to wrap your class, and have the 
outer class re-direct calls to special methods to the instance first.

 
> The reason I want to do such things is I need to implement operations
> similar to what itertools do. However I want my own classes and the
> operations are only similar to itertools, but differ in significant
> details.

I don't understand this.

If you want iterator operations "similar to itertools", why does this 
mean you need to replace anything? Just create your own iterators.

Or use pre-processing and post-processing to get what you want.

Can you show an example of what you would like to happen?



-- 
Steven


From jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 18:41:09 2010
From: jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com (jonny lowe)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:41:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1265336437.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0ec3e55a-90b6-4d49-89b5-6a5721d366b5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2027.1265433340.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c7d4719d-522c-4929-adf3-cc2173c109c1@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 11:10?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-... at yahoo.com.ar>
wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:39:07 -0300, jonny lowe
> <jonny.lowe.12... at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 4, 8:20 pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> >> On 01:56 am, jonny.lowe.12... at gmail.com wrote:
> >> >What I want is to have an easy way tomergeinput.txt and thestdout
> >> >so that output.txt look like:
>
> >> >Enter a number: 42
> >> >You entered 42.
>
> >> >Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.
>
> >> It sounds like you might be looking forscript(1)?
>
> > $ script -c "./y < input.txt" output.txt
> > Script started, file is output.txt
> > gimme x:you entered hello
> > Script done, file is output.txt
>
> Try moving the redirection out of the command:
>
> $ script -c ./y output.txt < input.txt
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The result is the same as before. I've tested in fedora11.

-jon


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 18:43:35 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:43:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0c50037a-8cb0-4948-9978-46f4a56fb3da@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 8:14?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> is (A**N)%M but my ?A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> 10^5. The other approach ? was ?repeated squaring and taking mod of
> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> than log N.

By the way, given that your M is fairly tiny compared with A and N, a
little bit of elementary number theory (e.g., Euler's theorem) could
save you a lot of time here.  For example,

pow(a, n, 10**5)

is equivalent to

pow(a, 5 + (n - 5) % 40000, 10**5)

for any n >= 5.  Not sure if this is the kind of thing you're looking
for.

--
Mark


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Feb  6 18:54:44 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:54:44 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
In-Reply-To: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4B6E0144.8090603@cheimes.de>

Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> The first case does what I expected, i.e. it iterates over whatever f()
> yields. In the second case nothing is printed. I have the impression
> that it still calls the original __iter__() method (the one defined at
> the class level).
>
> Why is that so?
> How can I replace the __iter__() method so it does what I want.

Virtually all __magic__ methods are looked up on the type, not the
instance. So obj.__iter__() translates into type(obj).__iter__(obj).

If you *really* need to overwrite __iter__ on your instance rather than
defining it on your class, you need to proxy the method call:

class MyObject(object):
   def __iter__(self):
      return self.myiter()

obj = MyObject()
obj.myiter = myiter

That should do the trick.

Christian


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 18:58:07 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Feb 2010 23:58:07 GMT
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2050.1265485159.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037dee41$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:39:00 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods
>> which have been decorated.

[...]

> Doctest has to scan the dict, so it does not see the attribute-lookup
> result.

Ahaha, now we're getting somewhere. If I do this:

>>> import inspect
>>> import test_doctests
>>> method3 = test_doctests.Test.__dict__['method3']
>>> inspect.isfunction(method3)
False
>>> inspect.ismethod(method3)
False

But:

>>> inspect.ismethoddescriptor(method3)
True

which is what I want to see. Presumably doctest.DocTestFinder needs a 
patch to call methoddescriptor's __get__ method.

(BTW, classmethod, staticmethod and property are all special-cased by 
DocTestFinder.)



-- 
Steven


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 19:05:15 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:05:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your reply.
So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
expressions cannot be enumerated. However, some of them can be
enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.

Zhuo

On Feb 6, 5:23?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article
> <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e552... at r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> ?"hzh... at gmail.com" <hzh... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
> > Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
> > output all the matches. For example, given ?[1|2|3]{2}? as the regular
> > expression, the program should output all 9 matches, i.e., "11 12 13
> > 21 22 23 31 32 33".
>
> > Is there any well-written routine in Python or third-party program to
> > do this? If there isn't, could somebody make some suggestions on how
> > to write it myself?
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Zhuo
>
> Please enumerate all the strings which match ".*". ?Use additional sheets
> of paper if needed.



From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb  6 19:07:49 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:07:49 +0100
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
Message-ID: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:

A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
an ssh to a windows host

The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.

Instead of controlling a shell the user would directly have access to
stdin/stdout/stderr of another python script.


Another option would of course be to install a non python sshd for windows.

The only ssh server for windows, that I know is however a little heavy
as it is openssh under cygwin (and I only used it on XP hosts.)

I'm still not sure, whether python as sshd is a good choice or whether
any other sshd would be better.

bye


N














From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb  6 19:24:33 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:24:33 +0100
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>>
>> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with
>> CTRL-C
>>
>> The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under
>> Windows)
>>
>> If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
>> It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
>> function.
> 
> Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
> On previous versions you may use this:
> 
> class MyXMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer):
> 
>     ... your methods ...
> 
>     if not hasattr(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, 'shutdown'):
> 
>         # pre 2.6
>         quit = False
> 
>         def serve_forever(self):
>             while not self.quit:
>                 self.handle_request()
> 
>         def shutdown(self):
>             self.quit = True
> 
>         def server_bind(self):
>             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
>             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)
> 

Overloading  server_bind() with your version solved my problem.

thanks again

N


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 19:26:36 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 00:26:36 GMT
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:05:15 -0800, hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for your reply.
> So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
> expressions cannot be enumerated. However, some of them can be
> enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.

How do you expect to tell the ones that can be enumerated apart from 
those that can't be?

Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language. What 
you are asking for is the same as saying:

"Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that is 
usable as valid input for a given program?"

This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can solve 
one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the Halting 
Problem before you spend too much time on this.

(Note, however, it isn't necessary to solve the Halting Problem for *all* 
cases in order to have a useful Endless Loop Detector program.)

Why do you think you need this? Seems to me you're starting on an 
extraordinarily difficult job. I hope the benefit is equally 
extraordinary.


[Aside: Python regexes aren't Turing Complete. I'm not sure about Perl 
regexes. Either way, this might actually be less difficult than the 
Halting Problem, as in "amazingly difficult" rather than "impossible".]


-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sat Feb  6 19:48:22 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:48:22 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <1265400942.3301.14.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com> <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
	<1265400942.3301.14.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <4B6E0DD6.1000908@sequans.com>

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 18:24 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>     
>>> Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
>>> implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
>>> structures ?
>>> I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not 
>>> exist.
>>> Let say I have this very simple class:
>>> class Point:
>>>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>>>    self.x = x
>>>    self.y = y
>>> I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
>>> 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
>>> 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
>>> Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
>>> class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
>>> I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
>>> pointing me in the right direction.
>>>       
>> I realized I gave a poor example, actually the Point object is marshable 
>> (marshallable ? like to invent new words), xmlrpc will try to marshall 
>> using __dict__ if possible.
>> import os
>> class Point:
>>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>>    self.x = x
>>    self.y = y
>>    self.notMarshallable = os
>>     
>
> This example doesn't make any sense.  Why would you set a variable equal
> to an important module in a class named Point?
>
> What is it you are actually trying to accomplish?  If you are trying to
> create an object publishing environment then maybe something like -
>
> rpc = xmlrpclib.loads(payload, use_datetime=True)
> method = rpc[1].split('.')
> classname   = method[0]
> methodname = method[1]
> parameters  = rpc[0]
> classclass = eval(classname)
> handler = classclass()
> call = getattr(handler, method_name)
> result = apply(call, parameters)
> result = xmlrpclib.dumps(tuple([result]), methodresponse=True)
>
> Obviously add copious amounts of exception handling and a security
> model.
>   

I just took the first non marshallable object that came to my mind. So 
yes that makes no sense but it was an example.

I'll try to sitck to what I'm really trying to do.

I have 2 classes, defined on server side

class Pool:
    def foo():
       return 42

class Stream:
    def __init__(self, pool):
       """@param pool: the pool the stream belongs so."""
       self._pool = pool


I won't need any more detail I think for my example.

Now If I want to return a stream, sending it to the client, I can't 
because xmlrpclib won't be able to marshall _pool.
What I need is the sever being able to marshall a Stream.

I would like to overide the marshall method of that stream, so that 
instead of raising an error because self._pool is not marshallable, it 
sends an int instead identifying the pool on the server side.

class Pool:
    instances = {}

when marshalling a stream:
    id = some_unique_generated_int()
    Pool.instances[id] = self._pool
    self._pool = id # an int will be gracefully marshalled by the defaut 
marshaller
    # call here the default marshaller

Then, when unmarshalling, the server can reassign the _pool reference 
using the id provided by the client.

I hope I am being clear.

JM
   



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 19:51:19 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 00:51:19 GMT
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2050.1265485159.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037dfaba$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:39:00 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods
>> which have been decorated [by method descriptors].

[...]

>> This looks like  bug to me. Have I missed anything?
> 
> I would call it a limitation as I do not see the doc as promising
> otherwise. I believe doctest predates the descripter protocol, at least
> in its current form, so it may not be completely descriptor-aware. You
> certainly could file a feature request for improved recognition and
> subsequent calling of __get__. An initial patch would improve chances of
> action.

I have found an existing report for this issue:

http://bugs.python.org/issue4037

The original poster's suggested fix was on the right track, but not 
complete. I've added a patch which works according to my tests.

Since this report is currently unassigned, is there a protocol for 
raising its profile and having somebody check my patch for inclusion? 
Should I just send an email to python-dev?


-- 
Steven



From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 19:51:19 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:51:19 +0100
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:05:15 -0800, hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for your reply.
>> So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
>> expressions cannot be enumerated. However, some of them can be
>> enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.
> 
> How do you expect to tell the ones that can be enumerated apart from 
> those that can't be?
> 
> Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language. What 
> you are asking for is the same as saying:
> 
> "Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that is 
> usable as valid input for a given program?"
> 
> This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can solve 
> one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the Halting 
> Problem before you spend too much time on this.

Hm, well, text editors /regularly/ do repeated regular expression searches, 
producing match after match after match, on request.

To use that /expression/, it seems that Theory is yet again up against Hard Reality.

In such a contest where something doesn't quite /match/, is the Map, the 
Terrain, or perhaps the Interpretation of how the Map applies to Terrain, at fault?


> (Note, however, it isn't necessary to solve the Halting Problem for *all* 
> cases in order to have a useful Endless Loop Detector program.)
> 
> Why do you think you need this? Seems to me you're starting on an 
> extraordinarily difficult job. I hope the benefit is equally 
> extraordinary.

Depending on the application there may be more efficient ways than applying a 
general purpose regexp matcher.

Don't know about modern *nix but in the old days there were different greps for 
different purposes, egrep, fgrep, whatever.

Aside: the only article by Niklaus Wirth that I can remember reading was about 
how to transform algorithms to more efficient ones by exploiting the invariants, 
and one of his examples was simple text searching, where you can advance the 
pattern a number of characters depending on the current non-matching character.


> [Aside: Python regexes aren't Turing Complete. I'm not sure about Perl 
> regexes. Either way, this might actually be less difficult than the 
> Halting Problem, as in "amazingly difficult" rather than "impossible".]


Cheers,

- Alf


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Feb  6 19:52:48 2010
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (duncan smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:52:48 +0000
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
Message-ID: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>

Hello,
       I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering 
information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python 
earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence 
on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest 
positive float I'm using,


import platform
if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
     TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
else:
     TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38


where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,


 >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
1.1754943508222875e-38
 >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
2.2250738585072014e-308
 >>>


I'm not 100% sure how reliable this will be across platforms.  Any ideas 
about the cleanest, reliable way of uncovering this type of information? 
  (I can always invoke numpy, or use Python 2.6, on my home machine and 
hardcode the retrieved values, but I need the code to run on 2.5 without 
3rd part dependencies.)  Cheers.

Duncan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb  6 19:54:54 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:54 -0500
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4b6c2095$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6c2095$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6E0F5E.10503@holdenweb.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> apeach a ?crit :
>> I love intuitive type recognition.
>>
>> no need to 'DIM everything AS Integer' etc.!
>>
> 
> not to mention the ever hilarious (that is, when you don't have to
> maintain it) typical Java idiom:
> 
>    EveryThing theEveryThing = new EveryThing();
> 
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=42242

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sat Feb  6 20:15:48 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:15:48 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6E1444.9060001@sequans.com>

News123 wrote:
> Hi JM,
>
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> import socket
>>
>> # server
>> server = SimpleXMLRPCServer((socket.gethostname(), 5000),
>> logRequests=False, allow_none=True)
>>
>>
>> # client
>> xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://%s.yourdomain.com:%s" %
>> (socket.gethostname(), 5000))
>>     
>
>
> Well This was exactly my question.
> for virtual web servers I cannot just use the IP-address.
> some XMLRPC servers do need the histname within the HTTP-POST request.
>
>   
a valid IP address would make it
> if I just replaced the hostname with the IP addres, then certain servers
> would not be accessable.
>
> I had to use the IP-address for connecteing
why not using the host names?
> , but to pass the hostname in
> the HTTP-POST request.
>
> I wondered how to convince puthon's SimpleXMLRPCServer (or any other
> standard python xmlrpc server), such, that I can obtain above mentioned
> goal.
>
>
> bye
>
> N
>   
I'm puzzled.
Unless my english is failing me, everything would be solved using 
hostnames if I follow you. Why don't you do that ?
I am no network/IP guru, but it sounds very weird to have requests 
rejected when using IP addresses. Are you sure your host names are 
resolved with the same IPM address you are using ?


JM


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 20:17:34 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:47:34 +0530
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061717x3ac4cd8lacada48814ef48e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:22 AM, duncan smith
<buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk>wrote:

> Hello,
>      I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering information
> about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python earlier than 2.6
> (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence on 3rd party modules
> just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest positive float I'm using,
>
>
> import platform
> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>    TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
> else:
>    TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>

The above code is executed on OSX (snow leopard - 64 bit) without any
issue.  Your implementation seems fine to me.

>
>
> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>
>
> >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
> 1.1754943508222875e-38
> >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
> 2.2250738585072014e-308
> >>>
>
>
> I'm not 100% sure how reliable this will be across platforms.  Any ideas
> about the cleanest, reliable way of uncovering this type of information?  (I
> can always invoke numpy, or use Python 2.6, on my home machine and hardcode
> the retrieved values, but I need the code to run on 2.5 without 3rd part
> dependencies.)  Cheers.
>
> Duncan
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb  6 20:21:15 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:21:15 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6c2095$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2065.1265504156.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xaavlet84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
>>    EveryThing theEveryThing = new EveryThing();
> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=42242

Pretty cool!  I see your blog post criticizing Java's lack of type
inference, and then immediately adjacent to the post there's a banner ad
for a book called "Programming in Scala".  I think I am getting a mixed
message ;-)


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sat Feb  6 20:23:16 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:23:16 -0500
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002061723k720e10e7led07eb6abd3962df@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:52 PM, duncan smith
<buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Hello,
> ? ? ?I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering information
> about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python earlier than 2.6
> (just 2.5 actually). ?I don't want to add a dependence on 3rd party modules
> just for this purpose. ?e.g. For the smallest positive float I'm using,
>
>
> import platform
> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
> ? ?TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
> else:
> ? ?TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>
>
> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>
>
>>>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
> 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>>>
>
>
> I'm not 100% sure how reliable this will be across platforms. ?Any ideas
> about the cleanest, reliable way of uncovering this type of information? ?(I
> can always invoke numpy, or use Python 2.6, on my home machine and hardcode
> the retrieved values, but I need the code to run on 2.5 without 3rd part
> dependencies.) ?Cheers.
>
> Duncan

>>> import platform
>>> platform.architecture()
('32bit', '')
>>> tiny = 2.22e-308
>>> tiny
2.2200000000000001e-308

float32 vs. float64 has nothing to do with a 32-bit vs. a 64-bit
platform. It's single precision floating-point (C float) vs.
double-precision floating point (C double). It's used in numpy because
numpy optimizes everything like crazy. Python always uses doubles.
>>> import numpy
>>> numpy.double
<type 'numpy.float64'>



> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 20:28:47 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 01:28:47 GMT
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:51:19 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language.
>> What you are asking for is the same as saying:
>> 
>> "Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that
>> is usable as valid input for a given program?"
>> 
>> This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can solve
>> one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the Halting
>> Problem before you spend too much time on this.
> 
> Hm, well, text editors /regularly/ do repeated regular expression
> searches, producing match after match after match, on request.

I think you have completely misunderstood what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that you can't *run* a regular expression against text and 
generate output. That truly would be a stupid thing to say, because I 
clearly can do this:

>>> import re
>>> mo = re.search("p.rr.t", 
... "Some text containing parrots as well as other things")
>>> mo.group()
'parrot'

As you point out, it's not hard to embed a regex interpreter inside a 
text editor or other application, or to call an external library.

What is difficult, and potentially impossible, is to take an arbitrary 
regular expression such as "p.rr.t" (the program in the regex language) 
and generate every possible data ("parrot", "pbrrat", ...) that would 
give a match when applied to that regular expression.

Now, in this case, my example is very simple, and it would be easy to 
enumerate every possible data: there's only 65025 of them, limiting to 
the extended ASCII range excluding NUL (1-255). But for an arbitrary 
regex, it won't be that easy. Often it will be unbounded: the example of 
enumerating every string that matches .* has already been given.

The second problem is, generating the data which gives the output you 
want is potentially very, very, difficult, potentially as difficult as 
finding collisions in cryptographic hash functions:

"Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs 
that give the hexadecimal result 
0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."

This too is unbounded, but you'll have your work cut out just to find 
*one* match, let alone an infinite number of them.

(In this specific example, your best bet is to try a crib: knowing what 
newsgroup this is, and knowing what I've written in the past, the message 
is predictable for being totally unexpected. And yes, that's a hint. A 
shiny penny for the first person to guess what it is.)

I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which 
regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy, 
the enumeration will often be infinite. 


-- 
Steven


From bartc at freeuk.com  Sat Feb  6 20:34:14 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:34:14 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>

"Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com> wrote in message 
news:m28wb6ypfs.fsf at googlemail.com...
> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:
>
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
>>> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
>>> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>>>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>> two functions.
>>>>>
>>>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight 
>>>>> functions?
>>>>>
>>>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>>>
>>> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
>>> underline=true) to be split into:
>>>
>>> drawtext(s)
>>> drawtextb(s)
>>> drawtexti(s)
>>> drawtextu(s)
>>> drawtextbi(s)
>>> drawtextbu(s)
>>> drawtextiu(s)
>>> drawtextbiu(s)
>>
>> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
>> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
>> separate functions.
>
> Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.

I've just noticed that 'literal' part. But I think I still disagree.

For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a 
light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should have 
two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it permanently 
off, and just walk into the right one.

-- 
Bartc




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sat Feb  6 20:36:34 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:36:34 +0100
Subject: Calendar GUI
In-Reply-To: <4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>	<1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6E1922.4030404@sequans.com>

Michael Torrie wrote:
> Gabriel wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggioli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
>>> them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
>>> is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
>>> staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
>>> action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is there some open-source
>>> calendar program you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
>>> be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
>>> that something simple and clean is ideal.
>>>       
>> I wrote a gtk gui for google calendar.
>>
>> Maybe you can adapt it to your needs.
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/googlecalendar-gtk/
>>     
>
> Would this work without an internet connection?  The original poster
> stated that internet isn't so reliable, hence the need for a local solution.
>
>   
How about zimbra ?
http://www.zimbra.com/products/calendar-collaboration.html

Ok, that's heavy stuff, but it's free, open source and widely used.

JM



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb  6 20:48:12 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:48:12 +0000
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B6E1BDC.5090002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:05:15 -0800, hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>> So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
>>> expressions cannot be enumerated. However, some of them can be
>>> enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.
>>
>> How do you expect to tell the ones that can be enumerated apart from 
>> those that can't be?
>>
>> Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language. 
>> What you are asking for is the same as saying:
>>
>> "Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that 
>> is usable as valid input for a given program?"
>>
>> This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can 
>> solve one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the 
>> Halting Problem before you spend too much time on this.
> 
> Hm, well, text editors /regularly/ do repeated regular expression 
> searches, producing match after match after match, on request.
> 
[snip]
I'm not sure you understood what the OP was requesting: a way of
generating the strings which would match a given regex.


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Feb  6 20:55:48 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:55:48 +0100
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <4B6E1DA4.2060908@cheimes.de>

duncan smith wrote:
> Hello,
>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering 
> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python 
> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence 
> on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest 
> positive float I'm using,
> 
> 
> import platform
> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>      TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
> else:
>      TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
> 
> 
> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
> 
> 
>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
> 2.2250738585072014e-308

You are confusing a 32 / 64bit build with 32 / 64bit floats. Python's
float type is build upon C's double precision float type on both 32 and
64 bit builds. The simple precision 32bit float type isn't used. The
DBL_MIN and DBL_MAX values are equal on all platforms that have full
IEEE 754 float point support. The radix may be different, though.

Christian


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 20:57:24 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 01:57:24 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <037e0a36$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:34:14 +0000, bartc wrote:

> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a
> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should
> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it
> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.

I don't think you can apply real-world analogies to software in that way. 
They're too different.

Think of the objections to having two rooms, one permanently lit up, the 
other permanently not:

(1) Having two rooms is expensive and wasteful of physical space, which 
is in short supply.

(2) You typically use rooms for storing things (furniture and smaller 
objects), having two rooms mean you would need to clone every object 
inside it and somehow keep them in perfect synchronisation.

(3) the light that is always on will use electricity 24 hours a day, 
regardless of whether you are inside it or not.

But none of those objections apply to functions:

(1) Functions are cheap and live in memory, which is not in short supply 
unless you're programming for an embedded device.

(1a) Even if you are programming in a device that is short of memory, the 
overhead of a second function is minimal. There's little difference 
between:

def func(flag):
    if flag:
        blockA
    else:
        blockB


and


def funcA():
    blockA

def funcB():
    blockB


for any non-trivial code blocks, particularly if any common code is 
factored out into another function which you call.

(2) Functions aren't typically used for storage, and when they need 
external data, it is easy to have them access a common data store.

(3) Functions don't use CPU cycles just by existing.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 21:09:53 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 02:09:53 GMT
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <037e0d22$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:52:48 +0000, duncan smith wrote:

> Hello,
>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering
> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python
> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence
> on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest
> positive float I'm using,

Assuming that your architecture is based on binary floats:

>>> x = 1.0/2
>>> while 0.0 + x != 0.0:
...     smallest = x
...     x /= 2.0
...
>>> smallest
4.9406564584124654e-324

which is the smallest number that can be distinguished from zero on my 
system.

If you're running on some weird platform with non-binary floats (perhaps 
a Russian ternary mainframe, or an old supercomputer with decimal floats) 
then you're on your own.

I calculated this using Python 2.5. In 2.6, I see this:

>>> sys.float_info
sys.floatinfo(max=1.7976931348623157e+308, max_exp=1024, max_10_exp=308, 
min=2.2250738585072014e-308, min_exp=-1021, min_10_exp=-307, dig=15, 
mant_dig=53, epsilon=2.2204460492503131e-16, radix=2, rounds=1)

So there's obviously a difference between how I calculate the smallest 
number and what Python thinks. The reason for this is left as an exercise.



-- 
Steven


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Feb  6 21:44:27 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 02:44:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <hkl9eb$4cf$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-06, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>> I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
>> Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
>> output all the matches.
[..]

> Please enumerate all the strings which match ".*".  Use additional sheets 
> of paper if needed.

And be sure to show your work.

-- 
Grant



From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 21:53:49 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:51:19 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language.
>>> What you are asking for is the same as saying:
>>>
>>> "Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that
>>> is usable as valid input for a given program?"
>>>
>>> This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can solve
>>> one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the Halting
>>> Problem before you spend too much time on this.
>> Hm, well, text editors /regularly/ do repeated regular expression
>> searches, producing match after match after match, on request.
> 
> I think you have completely misunderstood what I'm saying.

Yes.


> I'm not saying that you can't *run* a regular expression against text and 
> generate output. That truly would be a stupid thing to say, because I 
> clearly can do this:
> 
>>>> import re
>>>> mo = re.search("p.rr.t", 
> ... "Some text containing parrots as well as other things")
>>>> mo.group()
> 'parrot'
> 
> As you point out, it's not hard to embed a regex interpreter inside a 
> text editor or other application, or to call an external library.
> 
> What is difficult, and potentially impossible, is to take an arbitrary 
> regular expression such as "p.rr.t" (the program in the regex language) 
> and generate every possible data ("parrot", "pbrrat", ...) that would 
> give a match when applied to that regular expression.

Hm, that's not difficult to do, it's just like counting, but it's rather 
meaningless since either the output is trivial or it's in general exponential or 
infinite.

So it seems we both misunderstood the problem.

I didn't read the top level article until now, and reading it, I can't make 
sense of it.

It sounds like some kind of homework problem, but without the constraints that 
surely would be there in a homework problem.


> Now, in this case, my example is very simple, and it would be easy to 
> enumerate every possible data: there's only 65025 of them, limiting to 
> the extended ASCII range excluding NUL (1-255). But for an arbitrary 
> regex, it won't be that easy. Often it will be unbounded: the example of 
> enumerating every string that matches .* has already been given.
> 
> The second problem is, generating the data which gives the output you 
> want is potentially very, very, difficult, potentially as difficult as 
> finding collisions in cryptographic hash functions:
> 
> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs 
> that give the hexadecimal result 
> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."

I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(


[snip]

> I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which 
> regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy, 
> the enumeration will often be infinite.

I agree about the (implied) meaningless, exponential/infinite output, which 
means that possibly that's not what the OP meant, but disagree about the 
reasoning about "no way": really, regular expressions are /very/ limited so it's 
not hard to compute up front the number of strings it can generate from some 
given character set, in time linear in the length of the regexp.

Essentially, any regexp that includes '+' or '*' (directly or via e.g. notation 
that denotes "digit sequence") yields an infinite number of strings.

And otherwise the regexp is of the form ABCDE..., where A, B, C etc are parts 
that each can generate a certain finite number of strings; multiplying these 
numbers gives the total number of strings that the regexp can generate.


Cheers,

- Alf


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Feb  6 22:02:05 2010
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (duncan smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:02:05 +0000
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> duncan smith wrote:
>> Hello,
>>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering 
>> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python 
>> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence 
>> on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest 
>> positive float I'm using,
>>
>>
>> import platform
>> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>>      TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
>> else:
>>      TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>
>>
>> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>>
>>
>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
>> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
>> 2.2250738585072014e-308
> 
> You are confusing a 32 / 64bit build with 32 / 64bit floats. Python's
> float type is build upon C's double precision float type on both 32 and
> 64 bit builds. The simple precision 32bit float type isn't used. The
> DBL_MIN and DBL_MAX values are equal on all platforms that have full
> IEEE 754 float point support. The radix may be different, though.
> 
> Christian

OK, this is the sort of confusion I suspected.  I wasn't thinking 
straight.  The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of 
2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a 
simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on 
Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32 
server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an 
exception.  Thanks.

Duncan


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 22:04:03 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:04:03 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <037e0a36$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>	<qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<037e0a36$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hklaj7$71f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:34:14 +0000, bartc wrote:
> 
>> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a
>> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should
>> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it
>> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.
> 
> I don't think you can apply real-world analogies to software in that way. 
> They're too different.
> 
> Think of the objections to having two rooms, one permanently lit up, the 
> other permanently not:
> 
> (1) Having two rooms is expensive and wasteful of physical space, which 
> is in short supply.
> 
> (2) You typically use rooms for storing things (furniture and smaller 
> objects), having two rooms mean you would need to clone every object 
> inside it and somehow keep them in perfect synchronisation.
> 
> (3) the light that is always on will use electricity 24 hours a day, 
> regardless of whether you are inside it or not.
> 
> But none of those objections apply to functions:
> 
> (1) Functions are cheap and live in memory, which is not in short supply 
> unless you're programming for an embedded device.
> 
> (1a) Even if you are programming in a device that is short of memory, the 
> overhead of a second function is minimal. There's little difference 
> between:
> 
> def func(flag):
>     if flag:
>         blockA
>     else:
>         blockB
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> def funcA():
>     blockA
> 
> def funcB():
>     blockB
> 
> 
> for any non-trivial code blocks, particularly if any common code is 
> factored out into another function which you call.
> 
> (2) Functions aren't typically used for storage, and when they need 
> external data, it is easy to have them access a common data store.
> 
> (3) Functions don't use CPU cycles just by existing.

I agree with your reasoning :-), but it's not either/or.

Consider, sometimes one wants to do

   switch.off()

and sometimes one wants to do

   original_switch_state = switch.state()
   switch.off()
   # ... Do things that are best done in utter darkness.
   switch.set_state( original_switch_state )

E.g. the "switch" might be the enabled/disabled state of some GUI widget.

So IMHO it depends.

Sometimes one wants both kinds of "protocols".



Cheers,

- Alf


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 22:15:51 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:15:51 -0500
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
In-Reply-To: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <16651e81002061915v72cbc134he6c3c46f6add226c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:
>
> A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
> an ssh to a windows host
>
> The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.

The Twisted library has an sshd implementation, called conch.  Here an
article with a simple python sshd built with twisted:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html

-- 
Jerry


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 23:16:09 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:16:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net> 
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>


>
> So it seems we both misunderstood the problem.
>
> I didn't read the top level article until now, and reading it, I can't make
> sense of it.
>

Seems that you should read the whole thing before making a post, or
else you cannot know what we are talking about.
Steven doesn't misunderstand me. We are talking about what I need, and
he tries to help.



>
> > "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
> > that give the hexadecimal result
> > 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>
> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
>
> [snip]
>

This is a hash collision problem. Nobody has proved that SHA-256 is
collision free, even not in the random oracle model, because people
always suppose that a random oracle exists, and make hash function its
substitution. That means it may be broken someday. And any provable
security based on random oracle model is not secure.


> > I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which
> > regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy,
> > the enumeration will often be infinite.

It is hard to tell in advance. However, we can add some timing limit
or counting limit, to make it an algorithm, which can halt. For
example, whenever the program outputs more than 1000000 expressions
that match the input regex, we can halt because that exceeds our
limit. But surely this is not efficient because of the post-decision.



>
> Essentially, any regexp that includes '+' or '*' (directly or via e.g. notation
> that denotes "digit sequence") yields an infinite number of strings.

Infinity is really relative, not absolute. It is relative to the
computing speed. For example, the regex '^[0|1]{2048}$' is rather
simple and doesn't contain '+' or '$', but trying to output all
expressions that match it has a complexity of 2^2048. If we can do
that, then we can break RSA-2048.
We must face the reality .

Zhuo



From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Feb  6 23:19:20 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:19:20 +0000
Subject: WCK and PIL
References: <1fbe5e4b-2179-410b-9f76-9d65a7a08dce@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.04.19.19.109000@nowhere.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:05:53 -0800, darnzen wrote:

> I've written an app using the wck library (widget construction kit,
> see http://www.effbot.org), in addition to the wckGraph module. What
> I'd like to do, is take the output of one of my windows (happens to be
> a graph), and save it as a *.png or *.gif. I was planning on using the
> PIL for this. I'd like to use the code I have as is, without re-
> writing all the graphic calls to use PIL methods.
> 
> WCK uses its own "pixmap" class for storing images in memory. I can't
> find any documentation or class reference for pixmap and what I find
> in the source is confusing.

A WCK pixmap is a "draw object" whose underlying drawable is a pixmap
(i.e. a Tk pixmap, which is the platform's native "chunk of video memory"
pixmap type) rather than a window.

>From the source code, WCK doesn't appear to offer any way to retrieve the
pixel data (i.e. there's no way to do the opposite of draw.paste()).



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 23:31:36 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 04:31:36 GMT
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <00f7c75e$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:02:05 +0000, duncan smith wrote:

> The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
> exception.  Thanks.

I'm trying to think of what sort of experiment would be able to measure 
temperatures accurate to less than 3e-308 Kelvin, and my brain boiled.

Surely 1e-100 would be close enough to zero as to make no practical 
difference? Or even 1e-30? Whatever you're simulating surely isn't going 
to require 300+ decimal points of accuracy.

I must admit I'm not really familiar with simulated annealing, so I could 
be completely out of line, but my copy of "Numerical Recipes ..." by 
Press et al has an example, and they take the temperature down to about 
1e-6 before halting. Even a trillion times lower that that is 1e-15.


-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Feb  6 23:33:12 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:33:12 +0000
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.04.33.11.875000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:09:31 -0800, Jim wrote:

> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
> syntax irregularities.
> 
> I am familiar with Beautiful Soup (use it all the time) but it is
> intended to cope with bad syntax.  I just tried feeding
> HTMLParser.HTMLParser some HTML containing '<p>a<b>b</p></b>' and it
> didn't complain.

HTMLParser is a tokeniser, not a parser. It treats the data as a
stream of tokens (tags, entities, PCDATA, etc); it doesn't know anything
about the HTML DTD. For all it knows, the above example could be perfectly
valid (the "b" element might allow both its start and end tags to be
omitted).

Does the validation need to be done in Python? If not, you can use
"nsgmls" to validate any SGML document for which you have a DTD. OpenSP
includes nsgmls along with the various HTML DTDs.



From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 23:38:38 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:38:38 +0100
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hklg4i$dlq$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* hzhuo1 at gmail.com:
>> So it seems we both misunderstood the problem.
>>
>> I didn't read the top level article until now, and reading it, I can't make
>> sense of it.
>>
> 
> [1] Seems that you should read the whole thing before making a post, or
> else you cannot know what we are talking about.
> Steven doesn't misunderstand me. We are talking about what I need, and
> he tries to help.

If you were not misunderstood then you've posted a question for which there's no 
practical solution.


>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
>>
>> [snip]
>>
> 
> This is a hash collision problem. Nobody has proved that SHA-256 is
> collision free, even not in the random oracle model, because people
> always suppose that a random oracle exists, and make hash function its
> substitution. That means it may be broken someday. And any provable
> security based on random oracle model is not secure.

Stephen's little challenge wasn't about breaking SHA-256 but about guessing his 
secret phrase, given his clues.


>>> I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which
>>> regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy,
>>> the enumeration will often be infinite.
> 
> It is hard to tell in advance.

No, it's trivial.


> [2] However, we can add some timing limit
> or counting limit, to make it an algorithm, which can halt. For
> example, whenever the program outputs more than 1000000 expressions
> that match the input regex, we can halt because that exceeds our
> limit. But surely this is not efficient because of the post-decision.

You don't need to wait for that output to complete. You can calculate the number 
of strings up front. Like it appears that you do below:


>> Essentially, any regexp that includes '+' or '*' (directly or via e.g. notation
>> that denotes "digit sequence") yields an infinite number of strings.
> 
> Infinity is really relative, not absolute. It is relative to the
> computing speed. For example, the regex '^[0|1]{2048}$' is rather
> simple and doesn't contain '+' or '$', but trying to output all
> expressions that match it has a complexity of 2^2048. If we can do
> that, then we can break RSA-2048.
> We must face the reality .

Here it seems that you have no problem calculating number of combinations, yet 
above, at the paragraph marked [2], you talk about waiting for a million strings 
to be output before seeing that it's too much, and earlier, at the paragraph 
marked [1], you maintain that your original question about generating all such 
strings (completely impractical) was what you wanted help with?

I'm sorry but I can't make sense of this; it appears to be meaningless.

Perhaps if you tried to clarify the requirements a bit.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From schifschaf at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 23:49:06 2010
From: schifschaf at gmail.com (Schif Schaf)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:49:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
Message-ID: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I've got some text that looks like this:


    Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur
    adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor
    incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua.

and I want to make it look like this:


    Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur
    adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor
    incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.

(brackets replaced by braces). I can do that with Perl pretty easily:

~~~~
for (<>) {
    s/\[(.+?)\]/\{$1\}/g;
    print;
}
~~~~

but am not able to figure out how to do it with Python. I start out
trying something like:

~~~~
import re, sys
withbracks = re.compile(r'\[(.+?)\]')
for line in sys.stdin:
    mat = withbracks.search(line)
    if mat:
        # Well, this line has at least one.
        # Should be able to use withbracks.sub()
        # and mat.group() maybe ... ?
        line = withbracks.sub('{' + mat.group(0) + '}', line)
        # No, that's not working right.

    sys.stdout.write(line)
~~~~

but then am not sure where to go with that.

How would you do it?

Thanks.


From schifschaf at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 00:04:44 2010
From: schifschaf at gmail.com (Schif Schaf)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:04:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1951.1265377802.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1500989d-b1d9-4734-ac03-5d7b9d531aeb@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 8:49?am, Roald de Vries <r... at roalddevries.nl> wrote:

> My reasoning: I needed a language more powerful than bash, but more ?
> portable and faster to develop (at least small scripts) than C/C++. So ?
> I needed a scripting language. Python, Ruby, Perl, Tcl, ...?
>
> Python seems to be the language with the most libraries available,

I like Python a lot. That said, it looks like Perl's CPAN currently
has approximately double the number of packages in the Cheeseshop.

I'm guessing the CPAN is still growing, but I don't know how fast it
is growing compared to the Cheeseshop.

I won't venture a guess as to which has a higher percentage of older
unmaintained packages.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Feb  7 00:09:40 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:09:40 +0000
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.05.09.39.31000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:26:36 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>> So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
>> expressions cannot be enumerated.

No. There isn't a routine because no-one has yet felt any need to write
one.

>> However, some of them can be
>> enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.
> 
> How do you expect to tell the ones that can be enumerated apart from 
> those that can't be?

The ones which use the '+', '*' and '{m,}' operators match an infinite
number of strings; the rest can only match a finite number (assuming POSIX
REs; Python also has +? and *?).

["Enumerate" isn't the correct word here. You can *enumerate* an
infinite set, in the sense that you could write a Python generator for
which any member will eventually be generated.]

The obvious implementation is to construct the NFA then "run" it.

If you know that the RE can only match finite strings (i.e. the graph is
acyclic), then you can enumerate them using depth-first traversal. If it
can match infinite strings (i.e. if there are any cycles in the graph),
then you would need to use either breadth-first traversal or
incrementally-bounded depth-first traversal.

> [Aside: Python regexes aren't Turing Complete. I'm not sure about Perl 
> regexes. Either way, this might actually be less difficult than the 
> Halting Problem, as in "amazingly difficult" rather than "impossible".]

"Regular expressions" aren't Turing complete; this is implicit in the
definition of "regular". The Chomsky hierarchy has four levels, with
higher levels require a more capable system to decide whether a string is
a member of the language defined by the grammar:

	grammar			decidable by

	regular			finite automaton
	context-free		pushdown automaton[1]
	context-sensitive	linear-bounded automaton[2]
	recursively-enumerable	Turing machine

However, any "regular expression" syntax which allows backreferences
(including the POSIX specification) isn't actually "regular" in the formal
sense (as it requires an infinite number of states), but context-free.

[1] pushdown automaton = finite automaton with a stack

[2] linear-bounded automaton = Turing machine, except that it's "tape" is
finite and proportional to the size of the input.

	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy



From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 00:19:13 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:19:13 +0100
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Schif Schaf:
> Hi,
> 
> I've got some text that looks like this:
> 
> 
>     Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur
>     adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor
>     incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua.
> 
> and I want to make it look like this:
> 
> 
>     Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur
>     adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor
>     incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.
> 
> (brackets replaced by braces). I can do that with Perl pretty easily:
> 
> ~~~~
> for (<>) {
>     s/\[(.+?)\]/\{$1\}/g;
>     print;
> }
> ~~~~
> 
> but am not able to figure out how to do it with Python. I start out
> trying something like:
> 
> ~~~~
> import re, sys
> withbracks = re.compile(r'\[(.+?)\]')
> for line in sys.stdin:
>     mat = withbracks.search(line)
>     if mat:
>         # Well, this line has at least one.
>         # Should be able to use withbracks.sub()
>         # and mat.group() maybe ... ?
>         line = withbracks.sub('{' + mat.group(0) + '}', line)
>         # No, that's not working right.
> 
>     sys.stdout.write(line)
> ~~~~
> 
> but then am not sure where to go with that.
> 
> How would you do it?

I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look in the 
documentation, (2) check that it worked.


<code>
import re

text = (
     "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
     "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
     "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
     )

withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
for line in text:
     print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
</code>


Python's equivalent of the Perl snippet seems to be the same number of lines, 
and more clear. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 00:43:26 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:43:26 -0300
Subject: Subclassing datetime.date
References: <d2ac5323-d5aa-4448-a289-eeb7d501bb19@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<87vdea9h2y.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7qsuomrx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:42:29 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>  
escribi?:

> Sir Wilhelm the Sturdy <wgaggioli at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> I recently attempted to subclass the datetime.date object resulting in
>> horror and confusion, before submitting to a has-a relationship.
>> That's all fine and dandy, but out of curiosity I'd like to know what
>> I'm missing.
>>
>> class MyDate(datetime.date):
>>
>>     def __init__(self,*args,**kw):
>>        ...

> __init__ is *not* the construction method, __new__ is (at least with new
> style classes)

You're right. But in this case, instead of overriding __new__, I would add  
a separate constructor to avoid confusion with the existing one (a  
classmethod, actually, like fromordinal and fromtimestamp):

py> from datetime import date
py> class date(date):
...   @classmethod
...   def fromDMY(cls, d, m=None, y=None):
...     today = date.today()
...     if m is None: m = today.month
...     if y is None: y = today.year
...     return cls(y, m, d)
...
py> date.fromDMY(20, 3, 2010)
date(2010, 3, 20)
py> date.fromDMY(11)
date(2010, 2, 11)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From schifschaf at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 00:45:39 2010
From: schifschaf at gmail.com (Schif Schaf)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:45:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 12:19?am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:

>
> I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look in the
> documentation,

Hm. I checked in the repl, running `import re; help(re)` and the docs
on the `sub()` method didn't say anything about using back-refs in the
replacement string. Neat feature though.

> (2) check that it worked.
>
> <code>
> import re
>
> text = (
> ? ? ?"Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
> ? ? ?"adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
> ? ? ?"incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
> ? ? ?)
>
> withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
> for line in text:
> ? ? ?print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
> </code>
>

Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
the most recent match it just had.

Thanks.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Feb  7 00:49:28 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:49:28 +0000
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:31:52 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.

8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
the mechanical typewriter.

Historically, software and hardware which knows what a "tab" could be
split into two categories:

1. Tab stops are fixed at 8-column intervals.
2. Tab stops default to 8-column intervals but can be changed.

Recently, a third category has appeared (tab stops default to something
other than 8 columns). The most common example is Visual Studio. No
surprise there: Microsoft has a track record of introducing slight
incompatibilities into established standards. Just enough to inconvenience
anyone using competing products, but not so much that anyone operating
in a context where Microsoft isn't dominant has to abandon Microsoft's
product.

Given that:

1. 8-column tabs have been the standard for longer than most of us
have been alive, let alone programming, and
2. even if a particular text editor supports some other value, there is no
way to communicate this fact to anything else which might read the code,

the logical conclusion is that using anything other than 8 columns lies
somewhere between "silly" and "assuming the world revolves around you".



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 00:59:00 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:59:00 -0300
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> <4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>
	<op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas> <4B6D50CA.5070006@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <op.u7qtkmabx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:21:46 -0300, Anthra Norell  
<anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> escribi?:

> Gabriel,
>    Thanks for your hints. I take them up one by one:
>
>  >>> import os
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ImportError: No module named os
>
> C:\PYTHON25\LIB>dir os.*
>
> OS       PY         25,211  08-03-06  9:27a OS.PY
> OS       PYC        24,430  06-05-08  6:45p OS.PYC
>
> Here we are! Somehow the name got upper-cased! There's a whole bunch   
> (131) of upper-cased names in the Lib I shall install the whole thing  
> from scratch. That should take care if it. Thank you very much.

If you still have problems, try setting the PYTHONCASEOK environment  
variable.

C:\temp>python25 -?
...
Other environment variables:
...
PYTHONCASEOK : ignore case in 'import' statements (Windows).

> Frederic (Looking forward to Linux!)

Or at least a more decent Windows version. ME was a complete failure -  
Win98 Second Edition, being older, was better.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Feb  7 01:00:30 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:00:30 -0500
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
In-Reply-To: <037dfaba$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2050.1265485159.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037dfaba$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hklktq$eng$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 7:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I have found an existing report for this issue:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4037
>
> The original poster's suggested fix was on the right track, but not
> complete. I've added a patch which works according to my tests.
>
> Since this report is currently unassigned, is there a protocol for
> raising its profile and having somebody check my patch for inclusion?
> Should I just send an email to python-dev?

At one time, I believe this would have been assigned to Tim Peters, but 
he seems not to be very active in Python development currently. Given 
that the patch is fairly trivial and the module possible orphaned, and 
that you do not regularly bug python-dev, I suspect it would be ok to 
enquire, once you have a complete patch (with testcase). The latter 
would let a committer/reviewer quickly check that it does what you 
claim. You might be asked to review some other issues in exchange. (Or 
the OP of this thread or the tracker item might help ;-).

Terry Jan Reedy



From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 01:26:00 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:26:00 +0100
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <hklmds$psq$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Nobody:
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:31:52 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
>> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
>> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.
> 
> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
> the mechanical typewriter.
> 
> Historically, software and hardware which knows what a "tab" could be
> split into two categories:
> 
> 1. Tab stops are fixed at 8-column intervals.
> 2. Tab stops default to 8-column intervals but can be changed.
> 
> Recently, a third category has appeared (tab stops default to something
> other than 8 columns).

I'm sorry, but you have your history wrong.

Tab stops originated with mechanical typewriters, and then printers. They could 
be just about anything.

Tab stops have never been universally 8 columns  --  so unless by "recent" 
introduction of other sizes you mean 1958 or thereabouts, you're completely off 
track.


> The most common example is Visual Studio. No
> surprise there: Microsoft has a track record of introducing slight
> incompatibilities into established standards. Just enough to inconvenience
> anyone using competing products, but not so much that anyone operating
> in a context where Microsoft isn't dominant has to abandon Microsoft's
> product.
> 
> Given that:
> 
> 1. 8-column tabs have been the standard for longer than most of us
> have been alive, let alone programming, and

I'm sorry, that's incorrect, it's never been standard.


> 2. even if a particular text editor supports some other value, there is no
> way to communicate this fact to anything else which might read the code,

If you add the word "portable" and remove the word "other" and replace 
"supports" with "is configured to use" then that's sort of technically correct. 
But I agree with the general sense. And I think most everyone does. A common 
convention would have been nice. But we don't have that.


> the logical conclusion is that using anything other than 8 columns lies
> somewhere between "silly" and "assuming the world revolves around you".

?the logical conclusion is that assuming 8 column tab stops lies somewhere 
between "silly" and "assuming the world revolves around you"? :-)

In particular, consider Windows programming.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 01:29:20 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:29:20 -0300
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <op.u7quy6zdx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:24:33 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>>> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with
>>> CTRL-C
>>
>> Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
>> On previous versions you may use this:
>>
>>         def server_bind(self):
>>             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
>>             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)
>>
>
> Overloading  server_bind() with your version solved my problem.

Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the difference  
is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb  7 01:38:06 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Feb 2010 22:38:06 -0800
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <hkln4e$dl5$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <q1lbn.5995$pv.4400 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Neil Hodgson  <nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com> wrote:
>Alf P. Steinbach:
>>
>> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g.
>> the Boost library project does  --  no tabs allowed.
>
>   This would damage the usefulness of source control histories (svn
>annotate) as all of the converted lines would show this recent cosmetic
>change rather than the previous change which is likely to be a
>substantive modification.

BTW, in case anyone is confused, it's "svn blame" vs "cvs annotate".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb  7 01:42:22 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Feb 2010 22:42:22 -0800
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f at l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Xah Lee  <xahlee at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>freenode.net.

Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 02:14:11 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:14:11 -0300
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <4B6E1444.9060001@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7qw1xcpx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:15:48 -0300, Jean-Michel Pichavant  
<jeanmichel at sequans.com> escribi?:

> I'm puzzled.
> Unless my english is failing me, everything would be solved using  
> hostnames if I follow you. Why don't you do that ?
> I am no network/IP guru, but it sounds very weird to have requests  
> rejected when using IP addresses. Are you sure your host names are  
> resolved with the same IPM address you are using ?

HTTP 1.1 requires a Host: header field; this way, multiple web servers may  
share the same IP address. So you can't identify a host by its IP alone;  
the host name is required. This was devised in order to save IPv4  
addresses; LACNIC (the Latin America addresses register) does not assign  
addresses to ISP's based solely on web hosting anymore - they MUST share  
existing IPs. And I think a similar policy is used on other regions.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 02:52:18 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:52:18 -0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7qytg0lx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:34:14 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
> "Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com> wrote in message  
> news:m28wb6ypfs.fsf at googlemail.com...
>> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

>>> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
>>> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually  
>>> two
>>> separate functions.
>>
>> Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.
>
> I've just noticed that 'literal' part. But I think I still disagree.
>
> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a  
> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should  
> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it  
> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.

I think this would be a better analogy: A multiple screwdriver like this  
one
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/204461747/Multi_function_screwdriver_screwdriver.jpg
You use it when you need flexibility, or you don't know in advance what  
kind of screws you're going to encounter; they're mostly for hobbysts.
On the other hand, you have separate tools like this:
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/hightecelectronica/021-482.jpg
You choose one of them when you know exactly what you want. If the stuff  
you're working on uses exclusively certain kind of screws, you don't need  
flexibility, and you can choose in advance. They're also professional's  
choice.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 04:03:07 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:07 +0530
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002070103v7eccea56r657d4654d8f1acba@mail.gmail.com>

Here is one simple solution :
>>> intext = """Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit,
sed do eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."""

>>> intext.replace('[', '{').replace(']',
'}')
'Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod
tempor  incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.'

*Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I?ll use
regular expressions." Now they have two problems.* ? Jamie
Zawinski<ttp://jwz.livejournal.com>in comp.lang.emacs.


On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Schif Schaf <schifschaf at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 7, 12:19 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>
> >
> > I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look in
> the
> > documentation,
>
> Hm. I checked in the repl, running `import re; help(re)` and the docs
> on the `sub()` method didn't say anything about using back-refs in the
> replacement string. Neat feature though.
>
> > (2) check that it worked.
> >
> > <code>
> > import re
> >
> > text = (
> >      "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
> >      "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
> >      "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
> >      )
> >
> > withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
> > for line in text:
> >      print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
> > </code>
> >
>
> Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
> regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
> replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
> the most recent match it just had.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From macosx at rocteur.cc  Sun Feb  7 04:52:10 2010
From: macosx at rocteur.cc (@ Rocteur CC)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:52:10 +0100
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002070103v7eccea56r657d4654d8f1acba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070103v7eccea56r657d4654d8f1acba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6C6462AB-4665-40C9-B652-076FA574B872@rocteur.cc>


On 07 Feb 2010, at 10:03, Shashwat Anand wrote:

> Here is one simple solution :
> >>> intext = """Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur  
> adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut [labore] et  
> [dolore] magna aliqua."""
>
> >>> intext.replace('[', '{').replace(']', '}')
> 'Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do  
> eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.'
>
> Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I?ll use  
> regular expressions." Now they have two problems. ? Jamie Zawinski  
> in comp.lang.emacs.

That is because regular expressions are what we learned in programming  
the shell from sed to awk and ksh and zsh and of course Perl and we've  
read the two books by Jeffrey and much much more!!!

How do we rethink and relearn how we do things and should we ?

What is the solution ?

Jerry
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From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Sun Feb  7 04:54:16 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:54:16 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<mailman.2063.1265500492.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3360023.OTX69idHFh@beaureve.gmx.net>

Christian Heimes wrote:


> If you *really* need to overwrite __iter__ on your instance rather
> than defining it on your class, you need to proxy the method call:
> 
> class MyObject(object):
>    def __iter__(self):
>       return self.myiter()
> 
> obj = MyObject()
> obj.myiter = myiter
> 
> That should do the trick.

Thanks a lot, that works.


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 04:55:53 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:55:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <6361d161-2367-44e0-a1aa-1938cb5e0bfc@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 12:52?am, duncan smith <buzz... at urubu.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> import platform
> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
> ? ? ?TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
> else:
> ? ? ?TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38

As Christian said, whether you're using 32-bit or 64-bit shouldn't
make a difference here.  Just use the first TINY value you give.

> I'm not 100% sure how reliable this will be across platforms. ?Any ideas
> about the cleanest, reliable way of uncovering this type of information?

In practice, it's safe to assume that your 2.225....e-308 value is
reliable across platforms.  That value is the one that's appropriate
for the IEEE 754 binary64 format, and it's difficult these days to
find CPython running on a machine that uses any other format for C
doubles (and hence for Python floats).

The smallest positive *normal* number representable in IEEE 754
binary64 is exactly 2**-1022 (or approximately
2.2250738585072014e-308).  The smallest positive *subnormal* number
representable is exactly 2**-1074, or approximately
'4.9406564584124654e-324'.  (Subnormals have fewer bits of precision
than normal numbers;  it's the presence of subnormals that allows for
'gradual underflow'.)  Some machines can/will treat subnormal numbers
specially for speed reasons, either flushing a subnormal result of a
floating-point operation to 0, or replacing subnormal inputs to an
floating-point operation with 0, or both.  So for maximal portability,
and to avoid numerical problems, it's best to avoid the subnormal
region.

> The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
> exception.

This is a bit surprising.  What's the precise form of the error you
get?  Do you still get the same error if you replace your TINY value
by something fractionally larger?  (E.g., 2.23e-308.)

--
Mark


From rychphd at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 05:06:52 2010
From: rychphd at gmail.com (rych)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 02:06:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ctypes Structure serialization
Message-ID: <615b1271-a9b0-4558-8e45-e4370698d96a@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

I'm not quite familiar with python serialization but the picle module,
at least, doesn't seem to be able to serialize a ctypes Structure with
array-fields. Even if it was, the ASCII file produced is not in a
human-friendly format.

Could someone please suggest a method of saving and loading the fields
in ctypes' Structure derived class to a json or better yet, to
something like INFO
http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_41_0/doc/html/boost_propertytree/parsers.html#boost_propertytree.parsers.info_parser

For example, I have an object of
>>> class MyStruct(Structure):
...    _fields_ = [("a", c_int),
...                ("b", c_float),
...                ("point_array", c_float * 4)]

I'd like the corresponding file to look like

a 1
b 1.0
point array 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4

Thanks


From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Sun Feb  7 05:13:41 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:13:41 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> If you want iterator operations "similar to itertools", why does this
> mean you need to replace anything? Just create your own iterators.
> 
> Or use pre-processing and post-processing to get what you want.
> 
> Can you show an example of what you would like to happen?

Steven, 

my classes repesent musical objects. The fundamental paradigm I want to
apply is that of a Sequence, i.e. the most abstract aspect of music is
that "things" occur in a certain order.

Then I have a TimedSequence class, which is a Sequences whose elements
have a "time" attribute. I now want to be able to append such Sequences
by writing

s1 = TimedSequence (time=1,'a') # one-element Sequence
s2 = TimedSequence (time=2,'b')

y = s1*2 + s2

Naively appending those sequences would give me
Time=1,'a'
Time=1,'a'
Time=2,'b'

but this is not what I want. Time needs to progress if I append a
sequence to another. So what I really want is something like

Time=1,'a'
Time=2,'a'
Time=3,'b'

This implies that time is shifted to the next integer, but this is not
always the case. I need to know about some kind of "alignment". In
music this translates to "let a sequence start at the beginning of a
bar", or half bar or quarter note or whatever.

So I want to write

y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)

which should iterate as

Time=1,'a'
Time=2,'a'
Time=10,'b'

I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__) and
use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't quite
see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be wrong here.

Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done. The
beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.






From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb  7 05:33:55 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:33:55 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2066.1265505358.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2066.1265505358.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6e9714$0$29806$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi JM,


Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> News123 wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>  
>>
>> Well This was exactly my question.
>> for virtual web servers I cannot just use the IP-address.
>> some XMLRPC servers do need the histname within the HTTP-POST request.
>>
>>   
> a valid IP address would make it

What I meant is: Window 7 seems to be waaaayyyy slower if an xmlrpc
client uses a host name ('localhost') than an IP-address ('127.0.0.1).
the speed difference is between 1 request per second or 10-20 requests
per second.


>> if I just replaced the hostname with the IP address, then certain servers
>> would not be accessable.

many computers host multiple web servers under the same IP-address.
( see for example http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html )

So I cannot just replace a host name with an IP-address and expect
to receive the correct data / correct xmlrpc server.


>> I had to use the IP-address for connecteing
> why not using the host names?

I did not want to use the hostname due to the slowdown of
"locahost vs. 127.0.0.1"  issue on my host.

You are right, that I did not verify whether this issue exists also with
external servers and I should verify this first.


>> , but to pass the hostname in
>> the HTTP-POST request.
>>
>> I wondered how to convince puthon's SimpleXMLRPCServer (or any other
>> standard python xmlrpc server), such, that I can obtain above mentioned
>> goal.
>>
>>   
> I'm puzzled.
> Unless my english is failing me, everything would be solved using
> hostnames if I follow you. Why don't you do that ?
> I am no network/IP guru, but it sounds very weird to have requests
> rejected when using IP addresses. Are you sure your host names are
> resolved with the same IPM address you are using ?

The request would not be rejected, but apache can (if being configured
for name based virtual hosts) look at the hostname within the TCP/IP
payload (the entire url (including the host name) is normally also in
the GET / POST request ) and decide to deliver different data (or to
return HTTP errors) depending on the hostname in the payload.


I hope this clarifies.

Your answer gave me some thoughts though:

I still have to check whether the issue really exists with external
requests other than localhost.
Also I should probably try to attack the root cause
(  probably with help of ethereal or a similiar tool) instead of trying
to work around it.

I could just change the windows /etc/hosts equivalent and tell localhost
to have only an IPV4 address (perhaps this increases the performance)


On the other hand:
 Some people use name based virtual servers to provide special web
services by providing a 'fake-host name' in the http request. it might
be, that the fake host name doesn't even have a DNS entry.
( Though security by obscurity is a questionable practice )

so for some weird use cases it could be worth knowing how to connect to
one IP addres and to pass a different host name in the HTTP payload when
using an  xmlrpcclient


bye


N


From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb  7 05:38:39 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:38:39 +0100
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B6E982F.4020404@free.fr>

Hi Jerry,

Jerry Hill wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:
>>
>> A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
>> an ssh to a windows host
>>
>> The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.
> 
> The Twisted library has an sshd implementation, called conch.  Here an
> article with a simple python sshd built with twisted:
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html


Thanks. I'll check whether twisted conch runs also under windows.
Yesterday I made the probably too fast conclusion, that twisted conch
exists only for liux as I could only find a twisted-conch tarball and
not a windows installer.

But probably twisted-conch is already part of the twisted installer for
windows.
I'll check it.




From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb  7 05:39:06 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:39:06 +0100
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6e984a$0$29806$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Jerry,

Jerry Hill wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:
>>
>> A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
>> an ssh to a windows host
>>
>> The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.
> 
> The Twisted library has an sshd implementation, called conch.  Here an
> article with a simple python sshd built with twisted:
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html


Thanks. I'll check whether twisted conch runs also under windows.
Yesterday I made the probably too fast conclusion, that twisted conch
exists only for liux as I could only find a twisted-conch tarball and
not a windows installer.

But probably twisted-conch is already part of the twisted installer for
windows.
I'll check it.




From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb  7 05:42:12 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:42:12 +0100
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6e9904$0$29806$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Jerry,

Jerry Hill wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:
>>
>> A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
>> an ssh to a windows host
>>
>> The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.
> 
> The Twisted library has an sshd implementation, called conch.  Here an
> article with a simple python sshd built with twisted:
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html


THanks a look at it in moe detail.
Yesterday I made the probably wrong assumption, that twisted-conch
exists only for linux as I just found a twisted-conch tarball.

Probably however twisted-conch is already part of the twisted windows
installer package I'll check this.

N



From peloko45 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 06:22:59 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 03:22:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simulating logging.exception with another traceback
Message-ID: <0c13d3f7-addf-4972-91c3-6f41fadfb2b5@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I would want to get the output from `logging.exception` but with
traceback from the caller function (I've already all that
information).

This would be the error with logging.exception:
--------------------
ERROR:
  PipeError('/bin/ls -l |  ', 'no command after of pipe')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
160, in __call__
    raise PipeError(command, 'no command after of pipe')
PipeError: ('/bin/ls -l |  ', 'no command after of pipe')
--------------------

And I've trying it with:
--------------------
message = "File \"{0}\", line {1}, in {2}\n\n  {3}".format(
                file, line, function, caller)
logging.error(message)

ERROR:
  File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
  163, in __call__    return self.throw(PipeError, command, 'no
  command after of pipe')
--------------------

Could be used `logging.LogRecord` [1] to get it? How?


[1] http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#logging.LogRecord


From chyavana at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 06:32:14 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:32:14 +0800
Subject: Dynamic variable names
Message-ID: <f-6dnR0qCr9cOfPWnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>

Dear Folks,

I have read that one should use a dictionary in python to accommodate 
dynamic variable names. Yet, I am puzzled how to achieve that in my 
case. Here is what I want to do:

1. The user inputs a number of six-digit hex numbers as a 
comma-separated list. These numbers represent colours, but the number of 
colours is not known beforehand.

2. Using these colours in pairs, I am generating image files whose names 
must be unique. I could use the respective hex numbers for this, but 
would like to explore generating filenames like

colour_1-colour_2.jpg

Because I do not know how many colours there would be in advance, I need 
to generate the colour_n names on the fly.

So, my two questions are:

1. How do I do this properly in python?

2. If there is a better scheme than what I have outlined, can someone 
please point me to a Web link?

Thank you.

Chandra


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:28:27 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:28:27 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f at l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> Xah Lee  <xahlee at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>> freenode.net.
> 
> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.

It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
#python is likely to last much longer than the last.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:32:14 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:32:14 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <hkmbts$v69$2@ger.gmane.org>

bartc wrote:
> "Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:m28wb6ypfs.fsf at googlemail.com...
>> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:
>>
>>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
>>>> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>>>>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>>>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a
>>>>>>> direct
>>>>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>>> two functions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight
>>>>>> functions?
>>>>>>
>>>>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>>>>
>>>> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
>>>> underline=true) to be split into:
>>>>
>>>> drawtext(s)
>>>> drawtextb(s)
>>>> drawtexti(s)
>>>> drawtextu(s)
>>>> drawtextbi(s)
>>>> drawtextbu(s)
>>>> drawtextiu(s)
>>>> drawtextbiu(s)
>>>
>>> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
>>> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
>>> separate functions.
>>
>> Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.
> 
> I've just noticed that 'literal' part. But I think I still disagree.
> 
> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a
> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should
> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it
> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.
> 
Congratulations.  That has to be the most bogus analogy I've seen on
c.l.py this year.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:39:24 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:39:24 -0500
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <hkmcbb$1ea$1@ger.gmane.org>

Nobody wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:31:52 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
>> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
>> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.
> 
> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
> the mechanical typewriter.
> 
Clearly written by someone who has never *used* a mechanical typewriter.
The original mechanisms had "tab set" and "tab clear" keys, so you had
variable tabbing according to the needs of the particular document you
were working on. Look under "T" in

  http://www.mytypewriter.com/explorelearn/glossary.html

if you aren't old enough to have used one.

> Historically, software and hardware which knows what a "tab" could be
> split into two categories:
> 
> 1. Tab stops are fixed at 8-column intervals.
> 2. Tab stops default to 8-column intervals but can be changed.
> 
> Recently, a third category has appeared (tab stops default to something
> other than 8 columns). The most common example is Visual Studio. No
> surprise there: Microsoft has a track record of introducing slight
> incompatibilities into established standards. Just enough to inconvenience
> anyone using competing products, but not so much that anyone operating
> in a context where Microsoft isn't dominant has to abandon Microsoft's
> product.
> 
Consider instead that perhaps this one time Microsoft did it for the
convenience of the user (there has to be some reason why it's such a
wealthy company).

> Given that:
> 
> 1. 8-column tabs have been the standard for longer than most of us
> have been alive, let alone programming, and
> 2. even if a particular text editor supports some other value, there is no
> way to communicate this fact to anything else which might read the code,
> 
> the logical conclusion is that using anything other than 8 columns lies
> somewhere between "silly" and "assuming the world revolves around you".
> 

Which is what you appear to be doing with your fantasy about mechanical
typewriters.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:46:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:46:52 -0500
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkln6h$iaj$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
	<hkln6h$iaj$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6EB63C.1060208@holdenweb.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:49:28 +0000, Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
>> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
>> the mechanical typewriter.
>>
> 	Really? None of the various Royal, Remington, and Olivetti (sp?)
> typewriters I learned on had any knowledge of default tab stops. All had
> a row of sliding "pins" on the carriage, which were slid back and forth
> by the <tab set> and <tab clear> button (which required one to first
> position the carriage at the position at which the stop was to be
> placed). The <tab> key itself functioned by first pushing a lever into
> the area covered by the stop-row (after the current position stop, if
> one existed), then releasing the carriage to slide until the next stop
> -- uhm -- stopped the motion by impacting the lever; releasing the <tab>
> key would then re-engage the normal carriage motion control, and
> withdraw the lever.
> 
> 	8-space tab stops were, I believe, the default for various computer
> terminals, DECwriter printers, and maybe teletype units (in which there
> was no moving carriage on which a physical stop could be placed). Not
> sure how an 029 keypunch machine would behave -- either punching the
> code the a tab character, or skipping to the next field defined on a
> drum-card.
> 
When I started my computing career the main input medium at the
installation I worked was paper tape, and the Flexowriter (pretty much a
mechanical typewriter mechanism with a tape reader and punch attached)
was the data preparation device (though teletypes were used at other
installations). So it had adjustable tab settings.

The 029 punch (and the 026 before it) used a punch card mounte on a drum
to set the tab stops, which were therefore completely variable - one
would use a different tab card for Fortran and PL/1, for example. So a
tab was purely a spacing operation, no chads were punched from the card,
and indeed I was never aware of an EBCDIC "tab" character code (which is
by no means to say that there isn't one - Wikipedia says "The EBCDIC
code for HT is 5").

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:46:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:46:52 -0500
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkln6h$iaj$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
	<hkln6h$iaj$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6EB63C.1060208@holdenweb.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:49:28 +0000, Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
>> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
>> the mechanical typewriter.
>>
> 	Really? None of the various Royal, Remington, and Olivetti (sp?)
> typewriters I learned on had any knowledge of default tab stops. All had
> a row of sliding "pins" on the carriage, which were slid back and forth
> by the <tab set> and <tab clear> button (which required one to first
> position the carriage at the position at which the stop was to be
> placed). The <tab> key itself functioned by first pushing a lever into
> the area covered by the stop-row (after the current position stop, if
> one existed), then releasing the carriage to slide until the next stop
> -- uhm -- stopped the motion by impacting the lever; releasing the <tab>
> key would then re-engage the normal carriage motion control, and
> withdraw the lever.
> 
> 	8-space tab stops were, I believe, the default for various computer
> terminals, DECwriter printers, and maybe teletype units (in which there
> was no moving carriage on which a physical stop could be placed). Not
> sure how an 029 keypunch machine would behave -- either punching the
> code the a tab character, or skipping to the next field defined on a
> drum-card.
> 
When I started my computing career the main input medium at the
installation I worked was paper tape, and the Flexowriter (pretty much a
mechanical typewriter mechanism with a tape reader and punch attached)
was the data preparation device (though teletypes were used at other
installations). So it had adjustable tab settings.

The 029 punch (and the 026 before it) used a punch card mounte on a drum
to set the tab stops, which were therefore completely variable - one
would use a different tab card for Fortran and PL/1, for example. So a
tab was purely a spacing operation, no chads were punched from the card,
and indeed I was never aware of an EBCDIC "tab" character code (which is
by no means to say that there isn't one - Wikipedia says "The EBCDIC
code for HT is 5").

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:49:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:49:13 -0500
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
In-Reply-To: <63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <hkmctm$2fe$2@ger.gmane.org>

Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> If you want iterator operations "similar to itertools", why does this
>> mean you need to replace anything? Just create your own iterators.
>>
>> Or use pre-processing and post-processing to get what you want.
>>
>> Can you show an example of what you would like to happen?
> 
> Steven, 
> 
> my classes repesent musical objects. The fundamental paradigm I want to
> apply is that of a Sequence, i.e. the most abstract aspect of music is
> that "things" occur in a certain order.
> 
> Then I have a TimedSequence class, which is a Sequences whose elements
> have a "time" attribute. I now want to be able to append such Sequences
> by writing
> 
> s1 = TimedSequence (time=1,'a') # one-element Sequence
> s2 = TimedSequence (time=2,'b')
> 
> y = s1*2 + s2
> 
> Naively appending those sequences would give me
> Time=1,'a'
> Time=1,'a'
> Time=2,'b'
> 
> but this is not what I want. Time needs to progress if I append a
> sequence to another. So what I really want is something like
> 
> Time=1,'a'
> Time=2,'a'
> Time=3,'b'
> 
> This implies that time is shifted to the next integer, but this is not
> always the case. I need to know about some kind of "alignment". In
> music this translates to "let a sequence start at the beginning of a
> bar", or half bar or quarter note or whatever.
> 
> So I want to write
> 
> y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)
> 
> which should iterate as
> 
> Time=1,'a'
> Time=2,'a'
> Time=10,'b'
> 
> I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__) and
> use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't quite
> see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be wrong here.
> 
> Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done. The
> beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.
> 
In that case why not just assume that the timing of a sequence is
relative to the current time unless the "align" argument is given?

You might also need an event of zero duration to set the start time for
a sequence.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 07:57:13 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:57:13 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>

>>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>>> freenode.net.
>>
>> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
>> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
>> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
>
> It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
> #python is likely to last much longer than the last.

Some humanity, please! If you look at the web page of the guy it
really strikes me as a poor bastard who deserves more pity than
bashing. IRC, newsgroups, email, web page, etc, these are the only
things that this guy is doing, if you take these things away from him
I don't know what will be left for him. Yes, he is annoying, yes, he
is trolling, but if this prevents him from jumping under the bus, then
I'd say let him do it. How many serial trolls are there on c.l.p? Not
many. The average troll should of course be kicked out from
everywhere, but guys like Xah are really rare and on humanitarian
grounds I think should be allowed to do their things. If you really
think about it the damage is not that great.

In medieval times 99% of crazy people (using a loose definition of
crazy) were either executed or tortured and executed, however, the one
lonely village clown or court clown was allowed to be crazy, he even
had a decent income from the king. I'm not suggesting a stipend for
Xah from the PSF :) but having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it
makes him happy.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:07:30 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:07:30 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkme00$5sm$1@ger.gmane.org>

hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>> So it seems we both misunderstood the problem.
>>
>> I didn't read the top level article until now, and reading it, I can't make
>> sense of it.
>>
> 
> Seems that you should read the whole thing before making a post, or
> else you cannot know what we are talking about.
> Steven doesn't misunderstand me. We are talking about what I need, and
> he tries to help.
> 
> 
> 
>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
>>
>> [snip]
>>
> 
> This is a hash collision problem. Nobody has proved that SHA-256 is
> collision free, even not in the random oracle model, because people
> always suppose that a random oracle exists, and make hash function its
> substitution. That means it may be broken someday. And any provable
> security based on random oracle model is not secure.
> 
It's very easy to prove that no hash function is collision-free, since
the domain (all possible inputs) is much larger than the range (all
possible outputs). Hence there must be many inputs that map to the same
output.

A *good* hash function is unpredictable enough to make finding two
colliding strings impractical - and even the best hash functions that
cryptographers could devise at the time have been broken. We should
remember that "broken" to a cryptographer means something rather
different than it does in common usage, so a broken scheme need not
necessarily be dropped immediately - one would just stop using it in new
systems.

> 
>>> I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which
>>> regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy,
>>> the enumeration will often be infinite.
> 
> It is hard to tell in advance. However, we can add some timing limit
> or counting limit, to make it an algorithm, which can halt. For
> example, whenever the program outputs more than 1000000 expressions
> that match the input regex, we can halt because that exceeds our
> limit. But surely this is not efficient because of the post-decision.
> 
>> Essentially, any regexp that includes '+' or '*' (directly or via e.g. notation
>> that denotes "digit sequence") yields an infinite number of strings.
> 
> Infinity is really relative, not absolute. It is relative to the
> computing speed. For example, the regex '^[0|1]{2048}$' is rather
> simple and doesn't contain '+' or '$', but trying to output all
> expressions that match it has a complexity of 2^2048. If we can do
> that, then we can break RSA-2048.
> We must face the reality .
> 
I have always understood that there's a pretty real distinction between
"finite" and "infinite". Are you telling me I am wrong, or are you
merely saying that some finite cases might just as well be infinite for
practical purposes?

And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
when multiplied together, give that specific value.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb  7 08:11:10 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:11:10 -0600
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>

Schif Schaf wrote:
> On Feb 7, 12:19 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look in the
>> documentation,
[snip]
>> <code>
>> import re
>>
>> text = (
>>      "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
>>      "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
>>      "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
>>      )
>>
>> withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
>> for line in text:
>>      print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
>> </code>
> 
> Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
> regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
> replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
> the most recent match it just had.

I suspect Alf's rustiness with regexps caused him to miss the 
simpler rendition of

   print withbacks.sub(r'{\1}', line)

And to answer those who are reaching for other non-regex (whether 
string translations or .replace(), or pyparsing) solutions, it 
depends on what you want to happen in pathological cases like

   s = """Dangling closing]
      with properly [[nested]] and
      complex [properly [nested] text]
      and [improperly [nested] text
      and with some text [straddling
      lines] and with
      dangling opening [brackets
      """
where you'll begin to see the differences.

-tkc






From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 08:15:11 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:45:11 +0530
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org> 
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>

LOL
pow(funny, sys.maxint)

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com
> wrote:

> >>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
> >>> freenode.net.
> >>
> >> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
> >> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
> >> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
> >
> > It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
> > #python is likely to last much longer than the last.
>
> Some humanity, please! If you look at the web page of the guy it
> really strikes me as a poor bastard who deserves more pity than
> bashing. IRC, newsgroups, email, web page, etc, these are the only
> things that this guy is doing, if you take these things away from him
> I don't know what will be left for him. Yes, he is annoying, yes, he
> is trolling, but if this prevents him from jumping under the bus, then
> I'd say let him do it. How many serial trolls are there on c.l.p? Not
> many. The average troll should of course be kicked out from
> everywhere, but guys like Xah are really rare and on humanitarian
> grounds I think should be allowed to do their things. If you really
> think about it the damage is not that great.
>
> In medieval times 99% of crazy people (using a loose definition of
> crazy) were either executed or tortured and executed, however, the one
> lonely village clown or court clown was allowed to be crazy, he even
> had a decent income from the king. I'm not suggesting a stipend for
> Xah from the PSF :) but having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it
> makes him happy.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:19:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:19:51 -0500
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <4B6EBDF7.1010907@holdenweb.com>

duncan smith wrote:
> Christian Heimes wrote:
>> duncan smith wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering
>>> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python
>>> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a
>>> dependence on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the
>>> smallest positive float I'm using,
>>>
>>>
>>> import platform
>>> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>>>      TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>> else:
>>>      TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>
>>>
>>> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>>>
>>>
>>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
>>> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
>>> 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>
>> You are confusing a 32 / 64bit build with 32 / 64bit floats. Python's
>> float type is build upon C's double precision float type on both 32 and
>> 64 bit builds. The simple precision 32bit float type isn't used. The
>> DBL_MIN and DBL_MAX values are equal on all platforms that have full
>> IEEE 754 float point support. The radix may be different, though.
>>
>> Christian
> 
> OK, this is the sort of confusion I suspected.  I wasn't thinking
> straight.  The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
> exception.  Thanks.
> 
Whether this is relevant or not I can't say, but you must be careful to
note that the smallest representable floating-point value (i.e. the
smallest number distinguishable from zero) is not the same as the
smallest difference between two numbers of a given magnitude.

Consider a decimal floating-point system with a two-digit exponent and a
four-digit mantissa, and for convenience ignore negative mantissas. The
range of representable non-zero values runs from 1E-99 to 9999E99. But
adding 1E-99 to (say) 1 will just give you 1 because the system has
insufficient precision to represent the true result.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:19:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:19:51 -0500
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <4B6EBDF7.1010907@holdenweb.com>

duncan smith wrote:
> Christian Heimes wrote:
>> duncan smith wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering
>>> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python
>>> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a
>>> dependence on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the
>>> smallest positive float I'm using,
>>>
>>>
>>> import platform
>>> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>>>      TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>> else:
>>>      TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>
>>>
>>> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>>>
>>>
>>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
>>> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
>>> 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>
>> You are confusing a 32 / 64bit build with 32 / 64bit floats. Python's
>> float type is build upon C's double precision float type on both 32 and
>> 64 bit builds. The simple precision 32bit float type isn't used. The
>> DBL_MIN and DBL_MAX values are equal on all platforms that have full
>> IEEE 754 float point support. The radix may be different, though.
>>
>> Christian
> 
> OK, this is the sort of confusion I suspected.  I wasn't thinking
> straight.  The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
> exception.  Thanks.
> 
Whether this is relevant or not I can't say, but you must be careful to
note that the smallest representable floating-point value (i.e. the
smallest number distinguishable from zero) is not the same as the
smallest difference between two numbers of a given magnitude.

Consider a decimal floating-point system with a two-digit exponent and a
four-digit mantissa, and for convenience ignore negative mantissas. The
range of representable non-zero values runs from 1E-99 to 9999E99. But
adding 1E-99 to (say) 1 will just give you 1 because the system has
insufficient precision to represent the true result.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:25:28 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:25:28 -0500
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <6C6462AB-4665-40C9-B652-076FA574B872@rocteur.cc>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<d4ab53de1002070103v7eccea56r657d4654d8f1acba@mail.gmail.com>
	<6C6462AB-4665-40C9-B652-076FA574B872@rocteur.cc>
Message-ID: <hkmf1n$8ko$1@ger.gmane.org>

@ Rocteur CC wrote:
> 
> On 07 Feb 2010, at 10:03, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> 
>> Here is one simple solution :
>> >>> intext = """Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing
>> elit, sed do eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna
>> aliqua."""
>>
>> >>> intext.replace('[', '{').replace(']',
>> '}')                                      
>> 'Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do
>> eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.'
>>
>> /Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I?ll use
>> regular expressions." Now they have two problems./ ? Jamie Zawinski
>> <ttp://jwz.livejournal.com> in comp.lang.emacs.
> 
> That is because regular expressions are what we learned in programming
> the shell from sed to awk and ksh and zsh and of course Perl and we've
> read the two books by Jeffrey and much much more!!!
> 
> How do we rethink and relearn how we do things and should we ?
> 
> What is the solution ?
> 
A rigorous focus on programming simplicity.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 08:31:08 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:31:08 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002070531n6e132d54w5139ef700da36357@mail.gmail.com>

> LOL

assert funny > 1

> pow(funny, sys.maxint)


>> >>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>> >>> freenode.net.
>> >>
>> >> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
>> >> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
>> >> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
>> >
>> > It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
>> > #python is likely to last much longer than the last.
>>
>> Some humanity, please! If you look at the web page of the guy it
>> really strikes me as a poor bastard who deserves more pity than
>> bashing. IRC, newsgroups, email, web page, etc, these are the only
>> things that this guy is doing, if you take these things away from him
>> I don't know what will be left for him. Yes, he is annoying, yes, he
>> is trolling, but if this prevents him from jumping under the bus, then
>> I'd say let him do it. How many serial trolls are there on c.l.p? Not
>> many. The average troll should of course be kicked out from
>> everywhere, but guys like Xah are really rare and on humanitarian
>> grounds I think should be allowed to do their things. If you really
>> think about it the damage is not that great.
>>
>> In medieval times 99% of crazy people (using a loose definition of
>> crazy) were either executed or tortured and executed, however, the one
>> lonely village clown or court clown was allowed to be crazy, he even
>> had a decent income from the king. I'm not suggesting a stipend for
>> Xah from the PSF :) but having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it
>> makes him happy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:31:24 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:31:24 -0500
Subject: Dynamic variable names
In-Reply-To: <f-6dnR0qCr9cOfPWnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <f-6dnR0qCr9cOfPWnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkmfcr$a33$1@ger.gmane.org>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
> 
> I have read that one should use a dictionary in python to accommodate
> dynamic variable names. Yet, I am puzzled how to achieve that in my
> case. Here is what I want to do:
> 
> 1. The user inputs a number of six-digit hex numbers as a
> comma-separated list. These numbers represent colours, but the number of
> colours is not known beforehand.
> 
> 2. Using these colours in pairs, I am generating image files whose names
> must be unique. I could use the respective hex numbers for this, but
> would like to explore generating filenames like
> 
> colour_1-colour_2.jpg
> 
> Because I do not know how many colours there would be in advance, I need
> to generate the colour_n names on the fly.
> 
> So, my two questions are:
> 
> 1. How do I do this properly in python?
> 
> 2. If there is a better scheme than what I have outlined, can someone
> please point me to a Web link?
> 
Here's one way, though not necessarily the best:

>>> import itertools
>>> ctr = itertools.count(1)
>>> for i in range(5):
...   print "colour_%03d-colour%03d.jpg" % (ctr.next(), ctr.next())
...
colour_001-colour002.jpg
colour_003-colour004.jpg
colour_005-colour006.jpg
colour_007-colour008.jpg
colour_009-colour010.jpg
>>>

I zero-filled the names so they sort in numerical order. If this isn't a
requirement then simply change the format string to

	"colour_%d-colour%d.jpg"

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From as at sci.fi  Sun Feb  7 08:33:43 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:33:43 +0200
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg3ljf5uq4o.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

Schif Schaf <schifschaf at gmail.com> writes:

> (brackets replaced by braces). I can do that with Perl pretty easily:
>
> ~~~~
> for (<>) {
>     s/\[(.+?)\]/\{$1\}/g;
>     print;
> }
> ~~~~

Just curious, but since this is just transpose, then why not simply
tr/[]/{}/? I.e. why use a regular expression at all for this?

In python you would do this with 

for line in text: 
     print line.replace('[', '{').replace(']', '}')



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:35:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:35:22 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> LOL
> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
> 
Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.

I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
much of that kind of nonsense.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:37:07 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:37:07 -0500
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>

Tim Chase wrote:
> Schif Schaf wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 12:19 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>>> I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look
>>> in the
>>> documentation,
> [snip]
>>> <code>
>>> import re
>>>
>>> text = (
>>>      "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
>>>      "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
>>>      "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
>>>      )
>>>
>>> withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
>>> for line in text:
>>>      print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
>>> </code>
>>
>> Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
>> regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
>> replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
>> the most recent match it just had.
> 
> I suspect Alf's rustiness with regexps caused him to miss the simpler
> rendition of
> 
>   print withbacks.sub(r'{\1}', line)
> 
> And to answer those who are reaching for other non-regex (whether string
> translations or .replace(), or pyparsing) solutions, it depends on what
> you want to happen in pathological cases like
> 
>   s = """Dangling closing]
>      with properly [[nested]] and
>      complex [properly [nested] text]
>      and [improperly [nested] text
>      and with some text [straddling
>      lines] and with
>      dangling opening [brackets
>      """
> where you'll begin to see the differences.
> 
Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
replacement operation fail?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:37:07 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:37:07 -0500
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>

Tim Chase wrote:
> Schif Schaf wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 12:19 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>>> I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look
>>> in the
>>> documentation,
> [snip]
>>> <code>
>>> import re
>>>
>>> text = (
>>>      "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
>>>      "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
>>>      "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
>>>      )
>>>
>>> withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
>>> for line in text:
>>>      print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
>>> </code>
>>
>> Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
>> regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
>> replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
>> the most recent match it just had.
> 
> I suspect Alf's rustiness with regexps caused him to miss the simpler
> rendition of
> 
>   print withbacks.sub(r'{\1}', line)
> 
> And to answer those who are reaching for other non-regex (whether string
> translations or .replace(), or pyparsing) solutions, it depends on what
> you want to happen in pathological cases like
> 
>   s = """Dangling closing]
>      with properly [[nested]] and
>      complex [properly [nested] text]
>      and [improperly [nested] text
>      and with some text [straddling
>      lines] and with
>      dangling opening [brackets
>      """
> where you'll begin to see the differences.
> 
Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
replacement operation fail?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb  7 08:47:17 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:47:17 -0600
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EC465.3000405@tim.thechases.com>

hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
> 
> This is a hash collision problem. Nobody has proved that SHA-256 is
> collision free

It's actually pretty easy to prove that it is *not* collision 
free.  The SHA-256 encodes 512 bits of data.  So the the process 
of encoding (2**512)+1 distinct inputs incurs a collision in 
SHA-256 space as soon as you've hit (2**512)+1 if not earlier.

to start you off:

   sha_backmap = {}
   for i in xrange((2**512)+2):
     hash = sha(str(i))
     if hash in sha_backmap:
       print "Collision found: %i and %i" % (
         i, sha_backmap[hash])
         break
     sha_backmap[hash] = i

Though it might take a computer the size of the universe, so I'm 
guessing that the first collision encountered is with "42".  I 
leave the actual calculation and hashing of all possible 
combinations of 513 bits of data as an exercise to the reader 
with a lot of time on their hands or a quantum computer under 
their desk ;-)

> It is hard to tell in advance. However, we can add some timing limit
> or counting limit, to make it an algorithm, which can halt. For
> example, whenever the program outputs more than 1000000 expressions
> that match the input regex, we can halt because that exceeds our
> limit. But surely this is not efficient because of the post-decision.

As mentioned, it sounds like you either want a depth-first of the 
solution space that raises exceptions on an infinite/unbounded 
operator ("*", "+", and "{N,}" as mentioned in another email), or 
if you want to handle those operators, do a breadth-first search 
of the solution-space and track your depth (or time taken, or 
previous number of multi-factor atoms if you desire) to ensure 
you don't exceed a certain depth.  But you're still talking a 
combinatorial number of solutions for even simple regexps.

-tkc




From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb  7 08:57:31 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:57:31 -0600
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
	<4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EC6CB.8090800@tim.thechases.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Tim Chase wrote:
>> And to answer those who are reaching for other non-regex (whether string
>> translations or .replace(), or pyparsing) solutions, it depends on what
>> you want to happen in pathological cases like
>>
>>   s = """Dangling closing]
>>      with properly [[nested]] and
>>      complex [properly [nested] text]
>>      and [improperly [nested] text
>>      and with some text [straddling
>>      lines] and with
>>      dangling opening [brackets
>>      """
>> where you'll begin to see the differences.
>>
> Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
> replacement operation fail?

Failure is only defined in the clarified context of what the OP 
wants :)  Replacement operations only fail if the OP's desired 
output from the above mess doesn't change *all* of the ]/[ 
characters, but only those with some form of parity (nested or 
otherwise).  But if the OP *does* want all of the ]/[ characters 
replaced regardless of contextual nature, then yes, replace is a 
much better solution than regexps.

-tkc




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 09:11:41 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:11:41 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>

>> LOL
>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>
> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.

I don't think we need to worry about other communities or every
internet related problem. The only thing we need to make sure is that
c.l.p or the python community in general is friendly, tolerant,
healthy and perhaps shows a good example to other communities on how
to run a community, including how to handle problematic behavior.

> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
> much of that kind of nonsense.

I don't think you get my point. Rehabilitation or cure is not the goal
here. A village clown or court clown never changed, never got cured,
never got reintroduced into the community as a 'normal' person. A
village clown is tolerated in the purest form of the word 'tolerance'
by nor wishing him to change. Let him be the clown, let everybody
accept him as such, including all the annoyance and weird behavior.
Hoping for someone to change is the same as assigning him to a
correctional facility.

I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only
people should do who don't like him is ignoring him. What is very
important is that there can be only one PCJ and everybody else with
objectionable behavior will be banned, blacklisted, etc. with the full
force of available methods.

This would I think send a very clear message to all other online
communities that the Python Community is able to think outside the
box, and is not afraid of taking unusual steps to maintain a healthy
community and is even able to incorporate revolutionary new tactics to
keep the community friendly and tolerant.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 09:14:42 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:14:42 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002070614x12197972heac398160f1791c0@mail.gmail.com>

>>> LOL
>>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>>
>> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
>> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.
>
> I don't think we need to worry about other communities or every
> internet related problem. The only thing we need to make sure is that
> c.l.p or the python community in general is friendly, tolerant,
> healthy and perhaps shows a good example to other communities on how
> to run a community, including how to handle problematic behavior.
>
>> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
>> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
>> much of that kind of nonsense.
>
> I don't think you get my point. Rehabilitation or cure is not the goal
> here. A village clown or court clown never changed, never got cured,
> never got reintroduced into the community as a 'normal' person. A
> village clown is tolerated in the purest form of the word 'tolerance'
> by nor wishing him to change. Let him be the clown, let everybody
> accept him as such, including all the annoyance and weird behavior.
> Hoping for someone to change is the same as assigning him to a
> correctional facility.
>
> I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
> short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
> in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
> retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only
> people should do who don't like him is ignoring him. What is very
> important is that there can be only one PCJ and everybody else with
> objectionable behavior will be banned, blacklisted, etc. with the full
> force of available methods.
>
> This would I think send a very clear message to all other online
> communities that the Python Community is able to think outside the
> box, and is not afraid of taking unusual steps to maintain a healthy
> community and is even able to incorporate revolutionary new tactics to
> keep the community friendly and tolerant.

One more thing: if every online community (or only  programming
related newsgroup) would designate an XY Community Jester I believe
the relatively few number of serial trolls would all find their places
somewhere eventually. This approach would actually work and solve a
serious problem, as opposed to building more jails and more
correctional facilities.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From as at sci.fi  Sun Feb  7 09:30:52 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:30:52 +0200
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1265336437.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0ec3e55a-90b6-4d49-89b5-6a5721d366b5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2027.1265433340.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c7d4719d-522c-4929-adf3-cc2173c109c1@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg3hbptunhf.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

jonny lowe <jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com> writes:

> The result is the same as before. I've tested in fedora11.

I don't think script is the answer here, since it only stores what's
displayed on a terminal and your program's input comes from a file and
is not displayed on the terminal.

Simplest solution is probably that you have your program echo every
line of input. Maybe some hairy terminal trickery could be done?
Really more of a Linux question than python.


From darcy at druid.net  Sun Feb  7 09:48:45 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:48:45 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100207094845.4c448cf1.darcy@druid.net>

On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:11:41 +0100
Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
> short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
> in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
> retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only

Are you sure you aren't lobbying for the position for yourself?  I
think you have a shot based on this proposal.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Sun Feb  7 09:50:53 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:50:53 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<mailman.2089.1265547306.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>

Steve Holden wrote:


>> y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)
>> 
>> which should iterate as
>> 
>> Time=1,'a'
>> Time=2,'a'
>> Time=10,'b'
>> 
>> I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__)
>> and use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't
>> quite see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be
>> wrong here.
>> 
>> Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done.
>> The beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.
>> 
> In that case why not just assume that the timing of a sequence is
> relative to the current time unless the "align" argument is given?

Well that's pretty much what I'm doing. I just fail to see how I can do
this with bare itertools. Currently I am doing it in the following way:

When I call a Sequence as in s2(align=2) I create a new Sequence where
the "align" value is simply stored in an instance variable. 

When creating the sum of two sequences, I create a Sequence with a new
iter() method which first iterates over self and then over the second
Sequence. But each time it has to look up the "align" value of the
respective sequence and adjust "time" accordingly. 

Appending the two Sequences is the easy part, but adjusting time is the
difficult part. My impression was, that itertools can only help to
solve the first part.

I may be missing something obvious. If that's the case, please let me
know.








From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 10:08:51 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:08:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net> 
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2091.1265548122.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>


>
> And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
> RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
> when multiplied together, give that specific value.
>

I can tell you why is that. RSA-2048 has a composite of length less
than 2^2048, which is a product of two large primes. So one of its
factors cannot exceed 2^2047, and we can treat the multiplication as a
computation with constant complexity. So the time complexity of
enumerating 2^2048 strings is the same with factoring a composite with
length 2^2048 which is the product of two primes.

And obviously, whenever we successfully factor the composite, we can
calculate the Euler function of it. So that given any public key
(n,e), calculating the private key (n,d) is easy.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:10:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:10:15 -0500
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
In-Reply-To: <1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>	<mailman.2089.1265547306.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4B6ED7D7.6050106@holdenweb.com>

Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>> y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)
>>>
>>> which should iterate as
>>>
>>> Time=1,'a'
>>> Time=2,'a'
>>> Time=10,'b'
>>>
>>> I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__)
>>> and use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't
>>> quite see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be
>>> wrong here.
>>>
>>> Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done.
>>> The beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.
>>>
>> In that case why not just assume that the timing of a sequence is
>> relative to the current time unless the "align" argument is given?
> 
> Well that's pretty much what I'm doing. I just fail to see how I can do
> this with bare itertools. Currently I am doing it in the following way:
> 
> When I call a Sequence as in s2(align=2) I create a new Sequence where
> the "align" value is simply stored in an instance variable. 
> 
> When creating the sum of two sequences, I create a Sequence with a new
> iter() method which first iterates over self and then over the second
> Sequence. But each time it has to look up the "align" value of the
> respective sequence and adjust "time" accordingly. 
> 
> Appending the two Sequences is the easy part, but adjusting time is the
> difficult part. My impression was, that itertools can only help to
> solve the first part.
> 
> I may be missing something obvious. If that's the case, please let me
> know.
> 
Perhaps I am assuming too much of your simulation environment/player.

I presumed that there would be a global "current time" value that would
be passed into or available to the play method of the sequences. However
I can see that you might need something more complex if (e.g.) you want
to be able to start playing at an arbitrary point in time.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:10:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:10:15 -0500
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
In-Reply-To: <1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>	<mailman.2089.1265547306.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4B6ED7D7.6050106@holdenweb.com>

Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>> y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)
>>>
>>> which should iterate as
>>>
>>> Time=1,'a'
>>> Time=2,'a'
>>> Time=10,'b'
>>>
>>> I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__)
>>> and use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't
>>> quite see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be
>>> wrong here.
>>>
>>> Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done.
>>> The beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.
>>>
>> In that case why not just assume that the timing of a sequence is
>> relative to the current time unless the "align" argument is given?
> 
> Well that's pretty much what I'm doing. I just fail to see how I can do
> this with bare itertools. Currently I am doing it in the following way:
> 
> When I call a Sequence as in s2(align=2) I create a new Sequence where
> the "align" value is simply stored in an instance variable. 
> 
> When creating the sum of two sequences, I create a Sequence with a new
> iter() method which first iterates over self and then over the second
> Sequence. But each time it has to look up the "align" value of the
> respective sequence and adjust "time" accordingly. 
> 
> Appending the two Sequences is the easy part, but adjusting time is the
> difficult part. My impression was, that itertools can only help to
> solve the first part.
> 
> I may be missing something obvious. If that's the case, please let me
> know.
> 
Perhaps I am assuming too much of your simulation environment/player.

I presumed that there would be a global "current time" value that would
be passed into or available to the play method of the sequences. However
I can see that you might need something more complex if (e.g.) you want
to be able to start playing at an arbitrary point in time.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 10:22:55 2010
From: fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com (Jordan Uchima)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:22:55 -0600
Subject: still having problems with "Nim". using python 2.6.4
Message-ID: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>

I have attached the file that the game is on. feel free to modify it to make
it better. all suggestions are welcome. if you don't want to download the
file then here's the code:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Start with thirteen pieces and two players.
# Each player takes 1 - 4 pieces each turn.
# Player who takes the last piece loses.


# Declare constants.
NUMBER_OF_PLAYERS = 2
TOTAL_PIECES_AT_START = 13
namePlayer1 = raw_input("Hello Player 1, what is your name?\n")
namePlayer2 = raw_input("Hello Player 2, what is your name?\n")
# Declare functions.

def rules():
    """Print the rules of the game."""
    print 'The player that takes the last piece loses!'\
          'You can only take 1 - 4 pieces!\n\n'

def get_players():
    """Get the names of the players."""
    # Let's put the player's names in a list.
    players = []
    # Looping like this saves us repeating lines of code for each player.
    for player in range(NUMBER_OF_PLAYERS):

        players.append(player)
        break
    return players

def take_turn(player):
    """Handle a player's turn."""
    # Turn logic goes here.

player1Choice = int(raw_input(namePlayer1 + " how many pieces would you like
to take?\n")),
player2Choice = int(raw_input(namePlayer2 + " how many pieces would you like
to take?\n"))
playerChoice = player1Choice and player2Choice
x = 13 - playerChoice
loss = x <=2 and x >= 0,
while player1Choice == loss is True:
    print namePlayer1 + " loses!"
while player2Choice == loss is True:
    print namePlayer2, loss
while player1Choice and player2Choice == loss is True:
    print "It's a draw!"
while player1Choice != loss is True:
    print x
while player2Choice != loss is True:
    print x
while player1Choice and player2Choice != loss is True:
    print ("Keep going! Only ", x, " pieces left!")
validChoice = \
player1Choice == range(1, 4) is True,
print x
player1Choice == range(1, 4) is False,
print validChoice
player2Choice == range(1, 4) is True,
print x
player2Choice == range(1, 4) is False,
print validChoice


def main():
    """Run the game."""
    # Display the rules by calling rules function.
    rules()
    # Get the players by calling the get_players function.
    players = get_players()
    # Set up the game.
    remaining_pieces = TOTAL_PIECES_AT_START
    playing = True
    # Main loop - let's play!
    while playing:
        # Take turns.
        for player in players:
            remaining_pieces = take_turn(player)
            # Check if this player has lost.
            if remaining_pieces <= 1:
                # Player has taken last piece.
                print 'Sorry ', loser, ' you have lost.'
                # Break out of the loop
                playing = False
                break


# Automatically run main function if we're run as a script.
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

# End.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my problem is that i can't get it to make the players have more than 1 turn
each, it accepts any value for playerChoice, (it is only supposed to accept
values from 1 to 4), and "x" resets after each turn. i can get it to
subtract playerChoice from "x", and display the result, which should be "x",
but, then, "x" resets... by the way, i need this program finished by
wednesday, Feb.  10, 2010. Please help me!!!


--

Jordan (fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com)
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:38:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:38:38 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2091.1265548122.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EDE7E.7020304@holdenweb.com>

hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>> And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
>> RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
>> when multiplied together, give that specific value.
>>
> 
> I can tell you why is that. RSA-2048 has a composite of length less
> than 2^2048, which is a product of two large primes. So one of its
> factors cannot exceed 2^2047, and we can treat the multiplication as a
> computation with constant complexity. So the time complexity of
> enumerating 2^2048 strings is the same with factoring a composite with
> length 2^2048 which is the product of two primes.
> 
> And obviously, whenever we successfully factor the composite, we can
> calculate the Euler function of it. So that given any public key
> (n,e), calculating the private key (n,d) is easy.
> 
So all I have to do to break RSA is to count to 2^2048?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:38:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:38:38 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2091.1265548122.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EDE7E.7020304@holdenweb.com>

hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>> And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
>> RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
>> when multiplied together, give that specific value.
>>
> 
> I can tell you why is that. RSA-2048 has a composite of length less
> than 2^2048, which is a product of two large primes. So one of its
> factors cannot exceed 2^2047, and we can treat the multiplication as a
> computation with constant complexity. So the time complexity of
> enumerating 2^2048 strings is the same with factoring a composite with
> length 2^2048 which is the product of two primes.
> 
> And obviously, whenever we successfully factor the composite, we can
> calculate the Euler function of it. So that given any public key
> (n,e), calculating the private key (n,d) is easy.
> 
So all I have to do to break RSA is to count to 2^2048?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:46:34 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:46:34 -0500
Subject: still having problems with "Nim". using python 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EE05A.8080100@holdenweb.com>

Jordan Uchima wrote:
> I have attached the file that the game is on. feel free to modify it to
> make it better. all suggestions are welcome. if you don't want to
> download the file then here's the code:
> 
[...]
> 
> my problem is that i can't get it to make the players have more than 1
> turn each, it accepts any value for playerChoice, (it is only supposed
> to accept values from 1 to 4), and "x" resets after each turn. i can get
> it to subtract playerChoice from "x", and display the result, which
> should be "x", but, then, "x" resets... by the way, i need this program
> finished by wednesday, Feb.  10, 2010. Please help me!!!
> 
The deadline implies an even higher probability that this is homework. I
don't know whether you declared this in your earlier post, but it's
always as well to do so. You've made a substantial effort to solve the
problem though, so I don't mind trying to help. I hope you regard the
following as helpful.

You need a program structure that keeps going until the required
termination condition is reached. One such structure would be:

    while sticks_remaining > 1:
        taketurn(next_player())

So now you only need a next_player() function that returns alternate
values on successive calls and a taketurn() function that reduces the
number of sticks according to the instructions form the given player.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:46:34 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:46:34 -0500
Subject: still having problems with "Nim". using python 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EE05A.8080100@holdenweb.com>

Jordan Uchima wrote:
> I have attached the file that the game is on. feel free to modify it to
> make it better. all suggestions are welcome. if you don't want to
> download the file then here's the code:
> 
[...]
> 
> my problem is that i can't get it to make the players have more than 1
> turn each, it accepts any value for playerChoice, (it is only supposed
> to accept values from 1 to 4), and "x" resets after each turn. i can get
> it to subtract playerChoice from "x", and display the result, which
> should be "x", but, then, "x" resets... by the way, i need this program
> finished by wednesday, Feb.  10, 2010. Please help me!!!
> 
The deadline implies an even higher probability that this is homework. I
don't know whether you declared this in your earlier post, but it's
always as well to do so. You've made a substantial effort to solve the
problem though, so I don't mind trying to help. I hope you regard the
following as helpful.

You need a program structure that keeps going until the required
termination condition is reached. One such structure would be:

    while sticks_remaining > 1:
        taketurn(next_player())

So now you only need a next_player() function that returns alternate
values on successive calls and a taketurn() function that reduces the
number of sticks according to the instructions form the given player.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb  7 11:00:27 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Feb 2010 08:00:27 -0800
Subject: threading+popen2 hang
References: <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkmo2r$65o$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf at d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
lofic  <louis.coilliot at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Works fine on RHEL5/python 2.4.3
>Hangs on RHEL4/python 2.3.4

Then use Python 2.4 -- surely you don't expect anyone to provide bugfixes
for a release that's several years old?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb  7 11:24:04 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Feb 2010 08:24:04 -0800
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
References: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1787.1265117353.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkmpf4$l0p$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1787.1265117353.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Chris Rebert  <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:24 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
>> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?
>>
>> I googled but found nothing.
>
>Er...: http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html
>It's the third hit for "python readline".
>
>Actually reading the page, sounds like you want readline.insert_text()
>specifically.

That seems a tad harsh, especially after reading the docs and following
Peter Otten's link.  It's not at all obvious how to actually use
insert_text(), and although I probably could have figured it out on my
own, I might well have posted here myself.  Did you try using
insert_text() before posting?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 11:31:12 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 16:31:12 GMT
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2090.1265547435.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00f87008$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:57:13 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it makes him happy.

Why should we care about his happiness if it comes at the expense of the 
happiness of hundreds of other people?

I mean, if he decided that his happiness was best satisfied by following 
you home one day and smashing all your windows and pouring tar all over 
your furniture and smearing excrement over your clothes, should we 
tolerate that because it makes him happy?


And later, in another post:

> A village clown is tolerated in the purest form of the word 'tolerance'
> by nor wishing him to change. Let him be the clown, let everybody
> accept him as such, including all the annoyance and weird behavior.

Why should we? What's in it for us?


> Hoping for someone to change is the same as assigning him to a
> correctional facility.

That's a ridiculous comparison, which could only have been spoken to 
somebody who has never been in prison. You trivialise the problem of the 
punishment society by equating it to expecting a modicum of polite 
behaviour in public.


> I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
> short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
> in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
> retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only
> people should do who don't like him is ignoring him. What is very
> important is that there can be only one PCJ and everybody else with
> objectionable behavior will be banned, blacklisted, etc. with the full
> force of available methods.

Why should Xah Lee get special treatment? If other anti-social nuisances 
and trolls are banned, why should he get the privilege of being tolerated 
no matter what he does?

What is so special about Xah Lee that he gets carte blanche permission to 
be as obnoxious as he wants, while everyone else has to follow the rules 
of polite society?


-- 
Steven


From ldl08 at gmx.net  Sun Feb  7 12:07:33 2010
From: ldl08 at gmx.net (David)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:07:33 +0800
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
In-Reply-To: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B6EF355.1040405@gmx.net>

Hi Alf,

I think you talk too much... :-) Basically I am all for a verbose 
approach in a text for beginners, but on the other hand it is necessary 
to stick to the point you are making.
When, for example, you introduce your reader to the thoughts of Francis 
Glassborrow on page 5 of chapter three, then the only relevant point you 
are making is the following: "Many programmers hide the structure of 
their code behind their comments [which is to be avoided]". If you 
insist on a proper citation here, then use a footnote, but even there I 
would suggest you merely offer the link. As it stands you are not to the 
point, and frankly, as a beginner I have enough stuff troubling my head 
so that I do not need superfluous information as to the evolution of the 
things you are talking about. Just the facts, please.

My 2 cents,

David



On 03/02/10 04:54, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving
> into the details of the Python language.
>
> It's just a few pages yet, file [03 asd.pdf] (no real title yet!) at
> <url: http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> which is at Google Docs.
>
> The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether
> this text is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any
> improvements that could be made.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf



From john at castleamber.com  Sun Feb  7 12:38:51 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:38:51 -0600
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2105.1265552084.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87eikx54k4.fsf@castleamber.com>

Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com> writes:

> One more thing: 

Yeah, one more thing: since you are all for a better community why not
reply without quoting the entire message? Just quote enough to
provide some decent context.

Xah is just a spammer. It amazes me how often people want to step in the
role of Xah's sockpuppet.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Feb  7 13:20:25 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:20:25 -0500
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkmcbb$1ea$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
	<hkmcbb$1ea$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkn095$358$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/7/2010 7:39 AM, Steve Holden wrote:

> Clearly written by someone who has never *used* a mechanical typewriter.
> The original mechanisms had "tab set" and "tab clear" keys, so you had
> variable tabbing according to the needs of the particular document you
> were working on. Look under "T" in
>
>    http://www.mytypewriter.com/explorelearn/glossary.html
>
> if you aren't old enough to have used one.

I did start with real typewriters. The 'standard', if anything, was 1/2" 
for paragraph indents. That was 5 chars with normal 10 cpi type, 6 with 
12 cpi 'elite' type. I used both. I always thought the 8 char unix 
indent to be excessive. If a power of 2 was needed, rounding 5 down to 4 
would have been more sensible.

Wordperfect, which I wrote a couple of books with, followed the 
typewriter model in defaulting tab stops to every 1/2 inch, regardless 
of font. Sensible software tab defaults were not pioneered by Microsoft.

Terry Jan Reedy



From darnzen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 13:24:40 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:24:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WCK and PIL
References: <1fbe5e4b-2179-410b-9f76-9d65a7a08dce@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.07.04.19.19.109000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <28dee2e8-25a1-4f1d-901e-d8f7d0417e0a@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 10:19?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:05:53 -0800, darnzen wrote:
> > I've written an app using thewcklibrary (widget construction kit,
> > seehttp://www.effbot.org), in addition to the wckGraph module. What
> > I'd like to do, is take the output of one of my windows (happens to be
> > a graph), and save it as a *.png or *.gif. I was planning on using the
> >PILfor this. I'd like to use the code I have as is, without re-
> > writing all the graphic calls to usePILmethods.
>
> >WCKuses its own "pixmap" class for storing images in memory. I can't
> > find any documentation or class reference for pixmap and what I find
> > in the source is confusing.
>
> AWCKpixmap is a "draw object" whose underlying drawable is a pixmap
> (i.e. a Tk pixmap, which is the platform's native "chunk of video memory"
> pixmap type) rather than a window.
>
> From the source code,WCKdoesn't appear to offer any way to retrieve the
> pixel data (i.e. there's no way to do the opposite of draw.paste()).

I found a description of how to use a WCK drawing interface to draw
into a PIL image. (http://effbot.org/zone/pil-draw-wck.htm) but I'm
not sure how to use that class (SimpleDraw) to allow me to use
existing WCK code. Should I use it as a "mix in" to overwrite base
methods via inheritance?

class MyClass(SimpleDraw, Widget):
     pass



From rikutheronin at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 13:36:10 2010
From: rikutheronin at gmail.com (Pablo Recio Quijano)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:36:10 +0100
Subject: Checking the coding style
Message-ID: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the document
PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].

Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style guide?
I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and scripts that
checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to clean the code.

Thanks in advance!

[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
[2] http://drupal.org/coding-standards

-- 
Pablo Recio Quijano

Estudiante de Ingenier?a Inform?tica (UCA)
Alumno colaborador del Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
Participante del IV Concurso Universitario de Software Libre
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From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:02:30 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:02:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
Message-ID: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
would be the best way around this?  Thanks!


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:17:19 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:17:19 -0500
Subject: Checking the coding style
In-Reply-To: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002071117n18ba7b47j515d75946b79af0f@mail.gmail.com>

pylint and pychecker are good options

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Pablo Recio Quijano
<rikutheronin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the document
> PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].
> Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style guide?
> I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and scripts that
> checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to clean the code.
> Thanks in advance!
> [1]?http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
> [2]?http://drupal.org/coding-standards
>
> --
> Pablo Recio Quijano
>
> Estudiante de Ingenier?a Inform?tica (UCA)
> Alumno colaborador del Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
> Participante del IV Concurso Universitario de Software Libre
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:17:40 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:17:40 -0800
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
In-Reply-To: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002071117p139f00bx19362eaf72a8d037@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:02 AM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
> an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
> service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
> would be the best way around this?  Thanks!
>

I don't know what your specific issue is, but here's some tips for running
Python as a service on windows which are not always immediately obvious and
can cause failures:

- The search path is screwy: if you are importing a module that happens to
be the same name as a dll in system32 (even if this isn't at all a python
dll), it can get confused.
- There is *no* sys.stdout! This is a big one. If any piece of code you're
using ever does 'print', the whole thing can crash hard. I replace
sys.stdout and sys.stderr with a fake file-like object that catches errors
in attempting to .write to the real one and ignores them.

If neither of those two are a problem for you, you need to define "no luck"
before anyone will be able to help you. Are there errors in the event
viewer? Are you getting an exception that's killing out your service
(capture and write to a file with the logging module)? Or is the Popen call
being run and returning but just not doing anything (in which case, try
capturing output from the command and see if it indicates an error message
from plink.exe). Etc.

--S
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From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:22:26 2010
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:22:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Checking the coding style
References: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkn3ti$gng$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:36:10 +0100, Pablo Recio Quijano wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the
> document PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].
> 
> Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style
> guide? I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and
> scripts that checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to
> clean the code.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ [2]
> http://drupal.org/coding-standards

Hello Pablo,

The pep8 package (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep8) can do this, though 
I have never used it myself.  PyLint is a customisable static analysis
program that checks style among other things.

Cheers,

Kev



From rikutheronin at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:27:45 2010
From: rikutheronin at gmail.com (Pablo Recio Quijano)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:27:45 +0100
Subject: Checking the coding style
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002071117n18ba7b47j515d75946b79af0f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d1a32001002071117n18ba7b47j515d75946b79af0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1fb1c371002071127u8cf0bf2w3eeef60c03bf6868@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!

Pylint was what i was loking for

2010/2/7 Gerald Britton <gerald.britton at gmail.com>

> pylint and pychecker are good options
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Pablo Recio Quijano
> <rikutheronin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the
> document
> > PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].
> > Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style
> guide?
> > I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and scripts
> that
> > checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to clean the code.
> > Thanks in advance!
> > [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
> > [2] http://drupal.org/coding-standards
> >
> > --
> > Pablo Recio Quijano
> >
> > Estudiante de Ingenier?a Inform?tica (UCA)
> > Alumno colaborador del Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
> > Participante del IV Concurso Universitario de Software Libre
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>



-- 
Pablo Recio Quijano

Estudiante de Ingenier?a Inform?tica (UCA)
Alumno colaborador del Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
Participante del IV Concurso Universitario de Software Libre
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From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:59:40 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:59:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Checking the coding style
References: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2119.1265570571.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4f2ae5b7-1b4e-46cc-94ae-e70b3099ea7a@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 8:22?pm, Kev Dwyer <kevin.p.dw... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:36:10 +0100, Pablo Recio Quijano wrote:
> > Hi!
>
> > I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the
> > document PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].
>
> > Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style
> > guide? I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and
> > scripts that checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to
> > clean the code.
>
> > Thanks in advance!
>
> > [1]http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/[2]
> >http://drupal.org/coding-standards
>
> Hello Pablo,
>
> The pep8 package (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep8) can do this, though
> I have never used it myself. ?PyLint is a customisable static analysis
> program that checks style among other things.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kev

I've used pep8.py myself for some Python 3.x projects, and it's pretty
good. You don't need to install it either, a simple call via python
pep8.py 'yourpythonfile.py' should do.

I think PyLint can be used for Python 2.x, but I'm not sure about 3.x.


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Feb  7 15:45:59 2010
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (duncan smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:59 +0000
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <00f7c75e$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
	<00f7c75e$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkn8q7$10gs$1@energise.enta.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:02:05 +0000, duncan smith wrote:
> 
>> The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
>> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
>> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
>> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
>> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
>> exception.  Thanks.
> 
> I'm trying to think of what sort of experiment would be able to measure 
> temperatures accurate to less than 3e-308 Kelvin, and my brain boiled.
> 
> Surely 1e-100 would be close enough to zero as to make no practical 
> difference? Or even 1e-30? Whatever you're simulating surely isn't going 
> to require 300+ decimal points of accuracy.
> 
> I must admit I'm not really familiar with simulated annealing, so I could 
> be completely out of line, but my copy of "Numerical Recipes ..." by 
> Press et al has an example, and they take the temperature down to about 
> 1e-6 before halting. Even a trillion times lower that that is 1e-15.
> 
> 

It depends on the optimisation problem, but I suppose the fitness 
functions could be tweaked.  I could paste the actual code if anyone's 
interested, but the following pseudo-python gives the idea.  For an 
exponential cooling schedule the temperatures are generated as below. 
The lower the final temperature the greater the number of iterations, 
and the longer the algorithm spends searching locally for an optimal 
solution (having already searched more widely for areas of high fitness 
at higher temperatures).  The probability of moving to a less fit 
solution is given by exp(dF/temp) where dF is a (negative) change in 
fitness and temp is the current temperature.  So I could scale the 
fitness function to cope with higher finishing temperatures.

I'm going to have to think about the point raised by Steve (Holden).

I also think I can probably improve on raising StopIteration if 
exp(dF/temp) overflows by yielding False instead (although if it does 
overflow it probably indicates a poor choice of cooling schedule for the 
given problem).  Stuff to think about.  Cheers.

Duncan


import random
import math

def temps(start, final, mult):
     t = start
     while t > final:
         yield t
         t *= mult

def sim_anneal(permuter, start, final, mult):
     rand = random.random
     exp = math.exp
     for temp in temps(start, final, mult):
         dF = permuter.next()
         if dF >= 0:
             yield True
         else:
             try:
                 yield rand() < exp(dF / temp)
             except OverflowError:
                 raise StopIteration

class Permuter(object):
     def __init__(self, obj):
         self.obj = obj
	self.proposed = None

     def run(self, start, final, mult):
         for decision in sim_anneal(self, start, final, mult):
             if decision:
                 # commit proposed change to self.obj

     def next():
         # propose a change to self.obj
         # calculate and return the change in fitness
         self.proposed = proposed
         return dF


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:06:59 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:06:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
	<00f7c75e$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<hkn8q7$10gs$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <11668ca0-0f7f-41d0-9f6b-2e9f6b6a02ea@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 8:45?pm, duncan smith <buzz... at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

[...]
> interested, but the following pseudo-python gives the idea. ?For an
[...]

> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?yield rand() < exp(dF / temp)

Practically speaking, the condition rand() < exp(dF / temp) is never
going to be satisfied if dF / temp < -40  (in fact, the output of
rand() is always an exact multiple of 2**-53, so the condition rand()
< exp(-40) is identical to the condition rand() == 0.0, which should
occur for one random sample out of every 9 thousand million million or
so).

So assuming that your fitness delta dF can't get smaller than 1e-16 or
so in absolute value (which seems reasonable, given that dF is
presumably the result of subtracting two numbers of 'normal'
magnitude), there would be little point having temp go much smaller
than, say, 1e-20.

IOW, I agree with Steven:  2.2e-308 seems extreme.

--
Mark


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:08:45 2010
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:08:45 GMT
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkln4e$dl5$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<hkln4e$dl5$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <xZFbn.6150$pv.1073@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Aahz:

> BTW, in case anyone is confused, it's "svn blame" vs "cvs annotate".

   Possibly earlier versions of SVN only supported "blame" but the
variants "annotate", "ann", and "praise" all work with the version of
SVN (1.6.5) I have installed.

   Neil


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:25:21 2010
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:25:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Available for use: Tabs management software
Message-ID: <f8b13362-4abd-4a6c-af23-6a5f717c670f@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

In case someone else finds it useful here is a program I wrote a year
or so ago to help manage tab characters. It will convert tabs to runs
of spaces, convert runs of spaces to tabs, or count or check for tab
characters as required. It supports tab stops at regular and irregular
positions.

  http://codewiki.wikispaces.com/tabs.py

It is written in Python and you can either use it from the command
line or call the functions from another Python script. Documentation
is included on the web page.

James


From half.italian at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:43:02 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 11:02?am, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!

Try running/debugging your service from the commandline as
"<servicename> debug"  That should lead you to the error.

Otherwise, we need to see a traceback and some code to be better able
to help.

~Sean



From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:51:19 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 4:43?pm, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 11:02?am, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> > account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> > program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> > I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> > an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> > service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> > trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> > would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!
>
> Try running/debugging your service from the commandline as
> "<servicename> debug" ?That should lead you to the error.
>
> Otherwise, we need to see a traceback and some code to be better able
> to help.
>
> ~Sean

It's working fine when I run it via "<servicename> debug" - that's how
I was testing before.  It's when I start the service that it fails -
and you can see that, when you run it with debug, plink.exe runs under
my username.  When I run it as a service, it runs under System...


From ahleniusm at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:51:36 2010
From: ahleniusm at gmail.com (m_ahlenius)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: question on using tarfile to read a *.tar.gzip file
Message-ID: <0a75116c-345f-461c-a9d4-ae89edf556cf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a number of relatively large number *tar.gzip files to
process.  With the py module tarfile, I see that I can access and
extract them, one at a time to a temporary dir, but that of course
takes time.

All that I need to do is to read the first and last lines of each file
and then move on to the next one.  I am not changing anything in these
files - just reading.  The file lines are not fixed lengths either,
which makes it a bit more fun.

Is there a way to do this, without decompressing each file to a temp
dir?  Like is there a method using some tarfile interface adapter to
read a compressed file?  Otherwise I'll just access each file, extract
it,  grab the 1st and last lines and then delete the temp file.

thx

'mark


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:57:14 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:57:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net> 
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2091.1265548122.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2111.1265557213.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d9501d4e-f004-4531-a4fa-8904ab060189@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

That is a method called brute force. According to my computation,
2^2048=
32317006071311007300714876688669951960444102669715484032130345427524655138867890
89319720141152291346368871796092189801949411955915049092109508815238644828312063
08773673009960917501977503896521067960576383840675682767922186426197561618380943
38476170470581645852036305042887575891541065808607552399123930385521914333389668
34242068497478656456949485617603532632205807780565933102619270846031415025859286
41771167259436037184618573575983511523016459044036976132332872312271256847108202
09725157101726931323469678542580656697935045997268352998638215525166389437335543
602135433229604645318478604952148193555853611059596230656L

which is a very large number.

There are some other algorithms for factoring integers, including
Generalized number field sieve. And in quantum computing, there is an
algorithm called Shor, which is claimed to be a polynomial algorithm
if run under quantum computers. But seems that kind of computers
haven't been successfully built, or else RSA and many other security
mechanisms based on computation complexity cannot be used any longer.

What I need in my application is just to list all expressions that
match a particular regex, which I believe will be more efficient to
deal with if there is a general function for this purpose.
Unfortunately there is not such a function, so I will write my own
function to deal with my particular regex, which can be enumerated.

Sincerely,

Zhuo

On Feb 7, 10:38?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> hzh... at gmail.com wrote:
> >> And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
> >> RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
> >> when multiplied together, give that specific value.
>
> > I can tell you why is that. RSA-2048 has a composite of length less
> > than 2^2048, which is a product of two large primes. So one of its
> > factors cannot exceed 2^2047, and we can treat the multiplication as a
> > computation with constant complexity. So the time complexity of
> > enumerating 2^2048 strings is the same with factoring a composite with
> > length 2^2048 which is the product of two primes.
>
> > And obviously, whenever we successfully factor the composite, we can
> > calculate the Euler function of it. So that given any public key
> > (n,e), calculating the private key (n,d) is easy.
>
> So all I have to do to break RSA is to count to 2^2048?
>
> regards
> ?Steve
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS: ? ? ? ?http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From half.italian at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 17:02:37 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:02:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b0340314-a7af-4798-9634-1855d0d9eac9@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>


>
> It's working fine when I run it via "<servicename> debug" - that's how
> I was testing before. ?It's when I start the service that it fails -
> and you can see that, when you run it with debug, plink.exe runs under
> my username. ?When I run it as a service, it runs under System...

You can have the service run as any user under the service
properties.  Perhaps set the service to run under your username?

There may be some environment variables set in your session that
aren't in the one its running as.  So maybe check there as well.

Off to drink beer.  Good luck.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 17:07:15 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 22:07:15 GMT
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>> that give the hexadecimal result
>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
> 
> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(

Oh, everybody expects parrots! That's not unexpected -- as a clue, I 
wrote that "the message is predictable for being totally unexpected".

The input was "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", which is another 
Monty Python catchphrase.


-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 17:14:39 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:14:39 +0100
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
In-Reply-To: <959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkne0i$304$2@news.eternal-september.org>

* T:
> On Feb 7, 4:43 pm, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 11:02 am, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
>>> account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
>>> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
>>> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
>>> an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
>>> service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
>>> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
>>> would be the best way around this?  Thanks!
>> Try running/debugging your service from the commandline as
>> "<servicename> debug"  That should lead you to the error.
>>
>> Otherwise, we need to see a traceback and some code to be better able
>> to help.
>>
>> ~Sean
> 
> It's working fine when I run it via "<servicename> debug" - that's how
> I was testing before.  It's when I start the service that it fails -
> and you can see that, when you run it with debug, plink.exe runs under
> my username.  When I run it as a service, it runs under System...

This sounds like a Windows programming problem, not anything related to Python 
per se.

Windows services are generally limited in what they can do, such as interaction 
with the  user, and I guess that spills over to network access.

Also, services need to interact with the service control manager, the "scum" as 
it's known. Well, all right, that's just what my coworkers and I called it once. 
But essentially, it's an even-driven execution model, which means that it might 
not work to use just any program, such as [python.exe], directly as a service.

The Windows Resource Kit used to have a facility for running ordinary programs 
as services. I'm not sure what it did at the technical level, but it worked. Or 
it appeared to work.

You might also find it useful to look up the documentation on services that 
interact with the user. In the old times that was mostly a matter of configuring 
which account the service ran under. But I think it all got more complicated 
with Microsoft's introduction of Terminal services (generally, most of the 
complication in modern Windows is due to the shift in focus about 1995, ditching 
the personal computer user market in favor of the enterprise and MIS market).

Cross-posted to [comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32], follow-ups set to that 
group  --  that means, unless overridden you won't see follow-ups in [c.l.p].

I think that group may give more informative and helpful responses.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Feb  7 17:52:38 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:52:38 -0800
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
In-Reply-To: <hkmpf4$l0p$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1787.1265117353.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkmpf4$l0p$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002071452o685d5054sc94b747676033cee@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> In article <mailman.1787.1265117353.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Chris Rebert ?<clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:24 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
>>> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?
>>>
>>> I googled but found nothing.
>>
>>Er...: http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html
>>It's the third hit for "python readline".
>>
>>Actually reading the page, sounds like you want readline.insert_text()
>>specifically.
>
> That seems a tad harsh, especially after reading the docs and following
> Peter Otten's link. ?It's not at all obvious how to actually use
> insert_text(), and although I probably could have figured it out on my
> own, I might well have posted here myself. ?Did you try using
> insert_text() before posting?

No; I've never used the readline module for that matter. I was just
giving a (hopefully helpful) suggestion based on a quick scan of the
docs (hence the tentative "sounds like"). The OP's comment about
finding /nothing/ on Google made it sound as though they hadn't
located/checked the readline module docs. In retrospect, I might have
misinterpreted in that regard; but in my defense, if they did check
the docs, it might have been good to say so, and if they had found
insert_text(), they ought to have made their question more specific.

Cheers,
Chris


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb  7 18:01:24 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:01:24 -0600
Subject: question on using tarfile to read a *.tar.gzip file
In-Reply-To: <0a75116c-345f-461c-a9d4-ae89edf556cf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <0a75116c-345f-461c-a9d4-ae89edf556cf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F4644.60201@tim.thechases.com>

> Is there a way to do this, without decompressing each file to a temp
> dir?  Like is there a method using some tarfile interface adapter to
> read a compressed file?  Otherwise I'll just access each file, extract
> it,  grab the 1st and last lines and then delete the temp file.

I think you're looking for the extractfile() method of the 
TarFile object:

   from glob import glob
   from tarfile import TarFile
   for fname in glob('*.tgz'):
     print fname
     tf = TarFile.gzopen(fname)
     for ti in tf:
       print ' %s' % ti.name
       f = tf.extractfile(ti)
       if not f: continue
       fi = iter(f) # f doesn't natively support next()
       first_line = fi.next()
       for line in fi: pass
       f.close()
       print "  First line: %r" % first_line
       print "  Last line: %r" % line
     tf.close()

If you just want the first & last lines, it's a little more 
complex if you don't want to scan the entire file (like I do with 
the for-loop), but the file-like object returned by extractfile() 
is documented as supporting seek() so you can skip to the end and 
then read backwards until you have sufficient lines.  I wrote a 
"get the last line of a large file using seeks from the EOF" 
function which you can find at [1] which should handle the odd 
edge cases of $BUFFER_SIZE containing more or less than a full 
line and then reading backwards in chunks (if needed) until you 
have one full line, handling a one-line file, and other 
odd/annoying edge-cases.  Hope it helps.

-tkc

[1]
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-January/1186176.html




From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 18:09:15 2010
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:09:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Available for use: Tabs management software
References: <f8b13362-4abd-4a6c-af23-6a5f717c670f@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5e9b7d2a-a1dc-4a73-a3f6-4acc4dcb6fc5@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 7 Feb, 21:25, James Harris <james.harri... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> In case someone else finds it useful here is a program I wrote a year
> or so ago to help manage tab characters. It will convert tabs to runs
> of spaces, convert runs of spaces to tabs, or count or check for tab
> characters as required. It supports tab stops at regular and irregular
> positions.
>
> ?http://codewiki.wikispaces.com/tabs.py
>
> It is written in Python and you can either use it from the command
> line or call the functions from another Python script. Documentation
> is included on the web page.

After posting this I realised the code had a dependence on a separate
debugging module. I've commented-out all such references and tested it
in isolation from other code. Everything behaved as it should so if
you download it you should find it just works. The only dependence is
on Python (i.e. Python 2.x; I gather 3.x needs print statements and
maybe other stuff to be changed). Any issues, feel free to post them
here.

James


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Feb  7 18:55:52 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:55:52 +0000
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.23.55.51.484000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:49:28 +0000, Nobody wrote:

>> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
>> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
>> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.
> 
> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
> the mechanical typewriter.

Okay, as everyone has pointed out, it's not quite that old. I've seen
typewriters with fixed tabs, but I'm not certain that they were at 8
columns, and even if they were, it wasn't common enough to be a standard.




From as at sci.fi  Sun Feb  7 19:21:17 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:21:17 +0200
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg34olstw5e.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

Julian <mailings at julianmoritz.de> writes:

> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".

Thanks for the hint, interesting stuff in there.

> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.

For me as an electronics HW guy, I really like that I can easily
handle binary data without doing tedious and error prone shifting and
anding and oring.


From ahleniusm at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:25:50 2010
From: ahleniusm at gmail.com (m_ahlenius)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:25:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: question on using tarfile to read a *.tar.gzip file
References: <0a75116c-345f-461c-a9d4-ae89edf556cf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1265583695.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56cb4ae5-7a8d-4571-a9f2-57f3c7500664@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 5:01?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> > Is there a way to do this, without decompressing each file to a temp
> > dir? ?Like is there a method using some tarfile interface adapter to
> > read a compressed file? ?Otherwise I'll just access each file, extract
> > it, ?grab the 1st and last lines and then delete the temp file.
>
> I think you're looking for the extractfile() method of the
> TarFile object:
>
> ? ?from glob import glob
> ? ?from tarfile import TarFile
> ? ?for fname in glob('*.tgz'):
> ? ? ?print fname
> ? ? ?tf = TarFile.gzopen(fname)
> ? ? ?for ti in tf:
> ? ? ? ?print ' %s' % ti.name
> ? ? ? ?f = tf.extractfile(ti)
> ? ? ? ?if not f: continue
> ? ? ? ?fi = iter(f) # f doesn't natively support next()
> ? ? ? ?first_line = fi.next()
> ? ? ? ?for line in fi: pass
> ? ? ? ?f.close()
> ? ? ? ?print " ?First line: %r" % first_line
> ? ? ? ?print " ?Last line: %r" % line
> ? ? ?tf.close()
>
> If you just want the first & last lines, it's a little more
> complex if you don't want to scan the entire file (like I do with
> the for-loop), but the file-like object returned by extractfile()
> is documented as supporting seek() so you can skip to the end and
> then read backwards until you have sufficient lines. ?I wrote a
> "get the last line of a large file using seeks from the EOF"
> function which you can find at [1] which should handle the odd
> edge cases of $BUFFER_SIZE containing more or less than a full
> line and then reading backwards in chunks (if needed) until you
> have one full line, handling a one-line file, and other
> odd/annoying edge-cases. ?Hope it helps.
>
> -tkc
>
> [1]http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-January/1186176.html

Thanks Tim - this was very helpful.  Just learning about tarfile.

'mark


From escalation746 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 19:26:25 2010
From: escalation746 at yahoo.com (escalation746)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:26:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
Message-ID: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

I am having a heck of a time doing the simplest thing: installing
Python and the pywin extensions, including the PythonWin editor I have
always relied on, into my new Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OS. I
tried the Python package from python.org and pywin32 from sourceforge.
But the latter would not install, saying that it could not find Python
2.6 in the registry. And apparently it will not let me specify the
location of same, although a dialogue window tantalises me with blank
text boxes I cannot type into.

I then tried the 64-bit version of ActiveState's Python, but this
installed sans the PythonWin editor, apparently. At least I cannot
find it either in the Start menu or in the Python folder.

What am I missing? What have I not been told?

-- robin


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:55:05 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:55:05 -0800
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002071655h4a4076e7tb9f94e92a78a3273@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:26 PM, escalation746 <escalation746 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> I am having a heck of a time doing the simplest thing: installing
> Python and the pywin extensions, including the PythonWin editor I have
> always relied on, into my new Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OS. I
> tried the Python package from python.org and pywin32 from sourceforge.
> But the latter would not install, saying that it could not find Python
> 2.6 in the registry. And apparently it will not let me specify the
> location of same, although a dialogue window tantalises me with blank
> text boxes I cannot type into.
>

Saying, "the Python package from python.org" is insufficiently specific; are
you sure you got the 64-bit version of BOTH packages? If you install 64-bit
Python, any extensions must also be 64-bit.

If you look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/files/ you'll notice
separate builds for 64-bit, marked amd64. Are you sure you got the
pywin32-214.win-amd64-py2.6.exe and not the normal one?

Alternatively, you can just get the 32-bit version of both and install them.
But you can't mix and match, 32-bit one, 64-bit the other, in that case they
won't find each-other.

--S
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From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:57:01 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:57:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
References: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5b6da8b6-f814-4779-b7cb-b02762e16f2c@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 1:26?am, escalation746 <escalation... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am having a heck of a time doing the simplest thing: installing
> Python and the pywin extensions, including the PythonWin editor I have
> always relied on, into my new Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OS. I
> tried the Python package from python.org and pywin32 from sourceforge.
> But the latter would not install, saying that it could not find Python
> 2.6 in the registry. And apparently it will not let me specify the
> location of same, although a dialogue window tantalises me with blank
> text boxes I cannot type into.
>
> I then tried the 64-bit version of ActiveState's Python, but this
> installed sans the PythonWin editor, apparently. At least I cannot
> find it either in the Start menu or in the Python folder.
>
> What am I missing? What have I not been told?
>
> -- robin

Perhaps you've accidentally downloaded the wrong version of PythonWin?
I think this should be the one:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/files/pywin32/Build%20214/pywin32-214.win-amd64-py2.6.exe/download


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:57:36 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:57:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<b0340314-a7af-4798-9634-1855d0d9eac9@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <811dd4e9-6eea-4c1f-a24b-ba0179e57f84@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the suggestions -  I think my next step is to try running
it under an admin user account, as you guys both mentioned.  Alf -
you're absolutely right, Microsoft has srvany.exe, which allows you to
run any EXE as a Windows service.  I've done this in the past, but
it's more of a "hack"..so this go around (since I will be distributing
this program), I wanted to go the more professional route..which,
unfortunately, involves learning the "scum". :)  I  posted this to
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32, so we'll see if what the Win32
programmers have to say as well.  Thanks again!



From escalation746 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 20:02:33 2010
From: escalation746 at yahoo.com (escalation746)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:02:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
References: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<5b6da8b6-f814-4779-b7cb-b02762e16f2c@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5cb36cc2-fe75-4542-af70-b33400fd4dea@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

> Perhaps you've accidentally downloaded the wrong version of PythonWin?

Erk, yes, my bad.

Thanks for the quick help! Though I still wonder why the ActiveState
build does not include this.

-- robin


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 20:05:39 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:05:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
Message-ID: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
missing.  I have a class Test, for example:

class Test:
    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
        self.param1 = param1
        self.param2 = param2
        self.param3 = param3

Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
value, not reference)?  I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
instance, I would have to do:

def changevalue():
    for key in mytest.keys():
        currentparam = mytest[key]
        param1 = currentparam.param1
        param2 = currentparam.param2
        param3 = currentparam.param3
        param3 = "newvalue"
        mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)

If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
be great!


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Feb  7 20:16:19 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:16:19 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002071716k26062ba9h640835149f34c6e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
> missing. ?I have a class Test, for example:
>
> class Test:
> ? ?def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
> ? ? ? ?self.param1 = param1
> ? ? ? ?self.param2 = param2
> ? ? ? ?self.param3 = param3
>
> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test. ?If
> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
> value, not reference)?

Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
of what Python does use.

> I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
> instance, I would have to do:
>
> def changevalue():
> ? ?for key in mytest.keys():
> ? ? ? ?currentparam = mytest[key]
> ? ? ? ?param1 = currentparam.param1
> ? ? ? ?param2 = currentparam.param2
> ? ? ? ?param3 = currentparam.param3
> ? ? ? ?param3 = "newvalue"
> ? ? ? ?mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)
>
> If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
> be great!

def changevalue():
    for test in mytest.values():
        test.param3 = "newvalue"

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 20:19:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:19:53 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F66B9.2060801@holdenweb.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
> 
> Oh, everybody expects parrots! That's not unexpected -- as a clue, I 
> wrote that "the message is predictable for being totally unexpected".
> 
> The input was "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", which is another 
> Monty Python catchphrase.
> 
> 
Bugger - Got everything except the trailing exclamation mark ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 20:19:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:19:53 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F66B9.2060801@holdenweb.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
> 
> Oh, everybody expects parrots! That's not unexpected -- as a clue, I 
> wrote that "the message is predictable for being totally unexpected".
> 
> The input was "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", which is another 
> Monty Python catchphrase.
> 
> 
Bugger - Got everything except the trailing exclamation mark ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 20:24:13 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:24:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e42a3812-9b07-4544-b944-ad0357d9ea5a@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 8:16?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
> > missing. ?I have a class Test, for example:
>
> > class Test:
> > ? ?def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
> > ? ? ? ?self.param1 = param1
> > ? ? ? ?self.param2 = param2
> > ? ? ? ?self.param3 = param3
>
> > Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test. ?If
> > I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
> > have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
> > value, not reference)?
>
> Incorrect; Python uses neither. Seehttp://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htmfor a excellent explanation
> of what Python does use.
>
> > I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
> > instance, I would have to do:
>
> > def changevalue():
> > ? ?for key in mytest.keys():
> > ? ? ? ?currentparam = mytest[key]
> > ? ? ? ?param1 = currentparam.param1
> > ? ? ? ?param2 = currentparam.param2
> > ? ? ? ?param3 = currentparam.param3
> > ? ? ? ?param3 = "newvalue"
> > ? ? ? ?mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)
>
> > If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
> > be great!
>
> def changevalue():
> ? ? for test in mytest.values():
> ? ? ? ? test.param3 = "newvalue"
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Thanks so much - this makes life a lot easier!  And a great reference
as well.

Cheers,
Doug


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 20:31:31 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:31:31 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hknpjd$8gq$1@ger.gmane.org>

T wrote:
> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
> 
> class Test:
>     def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>         self.param1 = param1
>         self.param2 = param2
>         self.param3 = param3
> 
> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
> value, not reference)?  I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
> instance, I would have to do:
> 
> def changevalue():
>     for key in mytest.keys():
>         currentparam = mytest[key]
>         param1 = currentparam.param1
>         param2 = currentparam.param2
>         param3 = currentparam.param3
>         param3 = "newvalue"
>         mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)
> 
> If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
> be great!

def changevalue():
    for key in mytest.keys():
        mytest[key].param3 = "newvalue"

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sun Feb  7 20:32:31 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:32:31 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>	<hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6F69AF.8050200@sequans.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>   
>> LOL
>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>
>>     
> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.
>
> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
> much of that kind of nonsense.
>
> regards
>  Steve
>   
Actually for one Xah post I get, I then get 20 mails complaining about 
him. The fact is, for someone like me who subscribed  only to the python 
list (what's the purpose of subscribing the perl list when you know 
about python existence btw :o) ), the real annoying spam comes from the 
complains, not Xah. Speaking for myself, I may get 3 or 4 posts from Xah 
a month at most. Something I can live with.

So guys, just ignore him if you don't like him. Mailers & news readers 
have plenty of feature to make it happen.

Adding my contribution to complains...

JM



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb  7 20:48:21 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:48:21 +0000
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <4B6F69AF.8050200@sequans.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>	<hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6F69AF.8050200@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F6D65.7030408@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>  
>>> LOL
>>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>>
>>>     
>> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
>> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.
>>
>> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
>> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
>> much of that kind of nonsense.
>>
>> regards
>>  Steve
>>   
> Actually for one Xah post I get, I then get 20 mails complaining about 
> him. The fact is, for someone like me who subscribed  only to the python 
> list (what's the purpose of subscribing the perl list when you know 
> about python existence btw :o) ), the real annoying spam comes from the 
> complains, not Xah. Speaking for myself, I may get 3 or 4 posts from Xah 
> a month at most. Something I can live with.
> 
> So guys, just ignore him if you don't like him. Mailers & news readers 
> have plenty of feature to make it happen.
> 
> Adding my contribution to complains...
> 
Alternatively, add [XAH] to the subject in the replies so that they can
be filtered out easily. :-)


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 20:51:05 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:05 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Chris Rebert:
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>
>> class Test:
>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>        self.param1 = param1
>>        self.param2 = param2
>>        self.param3 = param3
>>
>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>> value, not reference)?
> 
> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
> of what Python does use.

Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to the 
point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.

Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.

There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to point 
out that in the Java language spec those reference values are called pointers, 
but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for Python, and isn't even 
well known among Java programmers. But that's just one extra little para.

One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.

Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.


>> I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
>> instance, I would have to do:
>>
>> def changevalue():
>>    for key in mytest.keys():
>>        currentparam = mytest[key]
>>        param1 = currentparam.param1
>>        param2 = currentparam.param2
>>        param3 = currentparam.param3
>>        param3 = "newvalue"
>>        mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)
>>
>> If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
>> be great!
> 
> def changevalue():
>     for test in mytest.values():
>         test.param3 = "newvalue"

Cheers,

- Alf


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb  7 21:07:55 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:07:55 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B6F71FB.6060709@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Chris Rebert:
>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>
>>> class Test:
>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>
>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>> value, not reference)?
>>
>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>> of what Python does use.
> 
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to 
> the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
> 
> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to 
> point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are 
> called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for 
> Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's 
> just one extra little para.
> 
> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
> 
> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
> 
A reference is not the same as a pointer.

A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 21:21:11 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:21:11 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* MRAB:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Chris Rebert:
>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>
>>>> class Test:
>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>
>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>
>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>> of what Python does use.
>>
>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and 
>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>
>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words 
>> to point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are 
>> called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for 
>> Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's 
>> just one extra little para.
>>
>> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
>>
>> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
>>
> A reference is not the same as a pointer.

Depends on your choice terminology. I referred to the Java (language spec) 
terminology to make it clear.


> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.

Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 21:33:12 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 02:33:12 GMT
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2129.1265592075.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.08.02.33.10@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:19:53 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> 
>>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
>> 
>> Oh, everybody expects parrots! That's not unexpected -- as a clue, I
>> wrote that "the message is predictable for being totally unexpected".
>> 
>> The input was "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", which is
>> another Monty Python catchphrase.
>> 
>> 
> Bugger - Got everything except the trailing exclamation mark ...


NOBODY EXPECTS THE TRAILING EXCLAMATION MARK!!!




-- 
Steven


From schifschaf at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:00:40 2010
From: schifschaf at gmail.com (Schif Schaf)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:00:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com> <4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com> 
	<mailman.2103.1265551059.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <06a91472-3974-45d3-b86a-c3c9055a5831@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 8:57?am, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>
> > Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
> > replacement operation fail?
>
> Failure is only defined in the clarified context of what the OP
> wants :) ?Replacement operations only fail if the OP's desired
> output from the above mess doesn't change *all* of the ]/[
> characters, but only those with some form of parity (nested or
> otherwise). ?But if the OP *does* want all of the ]/[ characters
> replaced regardless of contextual nature, then yes, replace is a
> much better solution than regexps.
>

I need to do the usual "pipe text through and do various search/
replace" thing fairly often. The above case of having to replace
brackets with braces is only one example. Simple string methods run
out of steam pretty quickly and much of my work relies on using
regular expressions. Yes, I try to keep focused on simplicity, and
often regexes are the simplest solution for my day-to-day needs.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 22:03:06 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:03:06 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hknuv5$j0t$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * MRAB:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Chris Rebert:
>>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>>
>>>>> class Test:
>>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>>
>>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>>
>>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>>> of what Python does use.
>>>
>>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
>>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>>
>>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>>
>>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words
>>> to point out that in the Java language spec those reference values
>>> are called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently)
>>> used for Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers.
>>> But that's just one extra little para.
>>>
>>> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by
>>> value.
>>>
>>> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
>>>
>> A reference is not the same as a pointer.
> 
> Depends on your choice terminology. I referred to the Java (language
> spec) terminology to make it clear.
> 
> 
>> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.
> 
Alf:

This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
real advantage.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:10:06 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:10:06 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002071910p462a2ddckc5d54de48cbeb97f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>
>> of what Python does use.
>>
>
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to
> the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>
> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>
> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to
> point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are called
> pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for Python, and
> isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's just one extra
> little para.



> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
>
> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
>

Sigh. Why does this always come up? And then someone makes a statement like
this, and now a /very/ long thread in which everyone argues semantics will
begin and sooner or later, the presence of the GIL will cause a Python civil
war, even though the GIL has nothing to do with anything related to this
conversation. Mark my words!

Python only passes by value if you use a non-standard definition of "value":
and the moment you do that, a whole bunch of people will start making weird
assumptions of Python's object and scoping semantics and all kinds of
confusion will occur. Or holy wars on words shall come to pass.

Python does not have pointers, it is not passing a pointer, it is passing an
object. The moment you start talking about passing pointers, people start
expecting things to work as if they -were- pointers. Python objects don't.

Python has names, and objects. It passes objects. Those objects get a new
name as a result. If the object is mutable, changes will be seen by the
caller. If the object is not, changes won't (because you're re-binding a
name, not changing an object).

Any attempt to apply any other sort of words or labels besides "names" and
"objects" to the situation is just going to confuse people and make them
think Python-is-LanguageXor Python-works-like-LanguageY.

Let the argument begin! Again.

--S
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From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sun Feb  7 22:11:10 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:11:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <79728aa8-073f-48c5-8162-fa57e9fefd69@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 1:36?pm, "hzh... at gmail.com" <hzh... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
> Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
> output all the matches. For example, given ?[1|2|3]{2}? as the regular
> expression, the program should output all 9 matches, i.e., "11 12 13
> 21 22 23 31 32 33".
>
> Is there any well-written routine in Python or third-party program to
> do this? If there isn't, could somebody make some suggestions on how
> to write it myself?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Zhuo

Please check out this example on the pyparsing wiki, invRegex.py:
http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/invRegex.py.  This code
implements a generator that returns successive matching strings for
the given regex.  Running it, I see that you actually have a typo in
your example.

>>> print list(invert("[1|2|3]{2}"))
['11', '1|', '12', '13', '|1', '||', '|2', '|3', '21', '2|', '22',
'23', '31', '3|', '32', '33']

I think you meant either "[123]{2}" or "(1|2|3){2}".

>>> print list(invert("[123]{2}"))
['11', '12', '13', '21', '22', '23', '31', '32', '33']

>>> print list(invert("(1|2|3){2}"))
['11', '12', '13', '21', '22', '23', '31', '32', '33']

Of course, as other posters have pointed out, this inverter does not
accept regexen with unbounded multiple characters '+' or '*', but '?'
and "{min,max}" notation will work.  Even '.' is supported, although
this can generate a large number of return values.

Of course, you'll also have to install pyparsing to get this to work.

-- Paul


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 22:14:22 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 03:14:22 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.08.03.14.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:03:06 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Alf:
> 
> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
> real advantage.

Curse you Steve, I had just come up with a brilliant rebuttal of Alf's 
position. It was sheer genius, the sort of thing that would have James 
Gosling weeping with envy.

Oh well, into the bitbucket it goes...


-- 
Steven


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:18:33 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:18:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to the
> point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.

Must. Resist. Ad hominem.

> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>
> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-)

10 words _plus_ an understanding of Java. Do you really think its
appropriate to discuss Python's behaviour purely in terms of other
languages?

Further, you've managed to define Python's behaviour as being somehow
_both_ of the major evaluation strategies - calling a reference by
value - so you're asking people to understand two totally irrelevant
models just to avoid describing one in its own terms. Rather than
arguing about whether you have a 'value' or a 'reference', it's a lot
easier to explain that you're passing mutable & immutable objects
around. The behaviour is thus defined in terms of the object and _not_
in the calling model, and is far more consistent with object
references throughout the language. It also doesn't require reference
to other languages simply to define Python's model in terms of what it
isn't.


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 22:27:07 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:27:07 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * MRAB:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>>> * Chris Rebert:
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> class Test:
>>>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>>>> of what Python does use.
>>>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
>>>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>>>
>>>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>>>
>>>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words
>>>> to point out that in the Java language spec those reference values
>>>> are called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently)
>>>> used for Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers.
>>>> But that's just one extra little para.
>>>>
>>>> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by
>>>> value.
>>>>
>>>> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
>>>>
>>> A reference is not the same as a pointer.
>> Depends on your choice terminology. I referred to the Java (language
>> spec) terminology to make it clear.
>>
>>
>>> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.
>> Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.
>>
> Alf:
> 
> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
> real advantage.

Well that's my point, and thanks for backing me up on that :-): it's very 
simple, and as demonstrated can be expressed in 10 words or less (plus perhaps a 
terminology reference, as I did above), so all that discussion and in particular 
the lengthy article at effbot serves as obfuscation and nothing else.

By the way, most every programming language has some corner like that, something 
that is utterly simple but somehow has some kind of obfuscation-meme attached.

In C++ it's "call" and "constructor". It doesn't help that the language's 
standard lays down the law on it, it doesn't help that the language's creator 
has laid down the law, it doesn't help that it's utterly and completely simple. 
Somehow newbies and even some experienced people manage to create their own 
terminological nightmare  and drawing conclusions about reality from that 
misguided obfuscated view, and then discussing it up and down and sideways.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From austin.brkich at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:56:39 2010
From: austin.brkich at gmail.com (7H3LaughingMan)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:56:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C/C++ Import
Message-ID: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
needs.

The program is running the following code...
PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );

This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
PyErr_Print())
ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager

I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
how to do a proper import?


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 23:01:05 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 04:01:05 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:05 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.

How do I get a pointer in pure Python code (no ctypes)? I tried both 
Pascal and C syntax (^x and *x), but both give syntax errors.

For that matter, how do I get a pointer in Java code?

If Python doesn't have pointers, then why are you talking about Python 
passing pointers? It's a vacuous truth, like saying that Python passes 
dinosaurs by name.



-- 
Steven


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 23:15:52 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:15:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <0795c4c2-bfd4-4372-903e-a91e45b37d50@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

Oops, this one was my fault - the object I was having the issues with
was actually a shelve file, not a dictionary..so just re-assigning the
variable isn't working, but re-writing the object to the shelve file
does.  So in this case, is there any way to just change a single
value, or am I stuck rewriting the entry?


From cjstevens at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 00:08:33 2010
From: cjstevens at gmail.com (Chris Stevens)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:08:33 +1100
Subject: Python 2.4 and list of dictionary issues
Message-ID: <f37827421002072108gcf3629eo867359adf7433cd0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm a python newbie so please excuse me if I am missing something
simple here. I am writing a script which requires a list of
dictionaries (originally a dictionary of dictionaries, but I changed
it to a list to try and overcome the below problem).

Now my understanding is that you create the empty list, then append or
add entries to it. Correct?

Here is some code:

userInfo = []
...
userInfo.append( {
						'username' : uidString[0],
                                                ...
						'failedattempts' : int(0)
})

I'm not to sure on the bracketing here, but I have tried many
combinations. The issue here is that I get a "IndexError: list index
out of range" message on the line "userInfo.append( {"

I wrote this script on a box with Python 2.6 and it worked fine.
Moving it to a box with 2.4, and I get this error. I can't understand
why i'm getting a list index out of range error when trying to append
(not reference) a list?? I have also tried "+=", and
userInfo(len(userInfo))= .... just get the same error.

Could anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Chris


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 00:12:14 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 05:12:14 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.08.05.12.14@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:21:11 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.

Taken from Wikipedia:

"A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the more 
abstracted reference data type (although it is not as directly usable as 
a C++ reference)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)

In other words, a pointer is a specific type of reference. A reference in 
turn is an opaque but low-level data type which "refers to" in some way 
to the data you actually care about. (C++ has a concrete reference type, 
which is not to be confused with abstract references.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(computer_science)

Unless otherwise stated, references are opaque and coders need not care 
how the reference mechanism is implemented, see e.g.:

http://www.cocoabuilder.com/archive/cocoa/20777-opaque-reference.html

In Python you don't use references directly, there is no reference type 
or object. You can simulate the semantics of references (but not 
pointers) by putting your object in a list and passing the list around.



-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 00:12:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:12:50 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hko6go$8fo$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:05 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> How do I get a pointer in pure Python code (no ctypes)? I tried both 
> Pascal and C syntax (^x and *x), but both give syntax errors.

Well, I don't believe that you tried that. :-)

 From one point of view it's extremely easy: just create some object, even just 
type 42 as an integer literal, and you can apply all of Python's pointer 
operations to the result  --  which isn't much, basically just checking for 
pointer equality via 'is' or applying 'id' to get a value that represents the 
pointer uniquely, or copying the pointer via assignment or parameter passing.

Whether you can obtain the bits of the internal pointer value, represented as 
e.g. an int, formally depends on the Python implementation.

In CPython the 'id' function provides the internal pointer value as an int.

I.e., with CPython you can do

   def foo( o ):
       print( id( o ) )    # Shows the pointer value in decimal.

   whatever = 42
   print( id( whatever ) ) # Shows the pointer value in decimal.
   foo( whatever )         # Shows the exact *same* pointer value.

which at a slightly higher level of abstraction works just as well with any 
conceivable Python implementation, although you have no formal guarantee that 
the conceptual "pointer" values are actually the internally memory addresses.

But, in CPython they are, and you run into them all the time, for example (where 
the "at" tells you that it's a memory location specification, a pointer),

   >>> import turtle
   >>> turtle.forward
   <function forward at 0x00DB7D20>
   >>>
   >>> id( turtle.forward )
   14384416
   >>> hex( id( turtle.forward ) )
   '0xdb7d20'
   >>> _


> For that matter, how do I get a pointer in Java code?

As with Python, from one point of view it's extremely easy, just 'new' some 
object, and then you can apply all of Java's pure pointer operations to the 
result  --  which isn't much, basically just checking for pointer equality and 
copying a pointer via assignment or parameter passing.

In Java it's a pointer by definition, namely the language spec's definition.

 From another point of view, getting at the internal representation of the 
pointer is a bit harder in Java than in Python, at least as far as I know. It 
may not be practically possible. Disclaimer: I'm not a Java expert, and haven't 
used Java for years, and it just might be possible by using JNI (Java Native 
Interface), but that requires you to write a dynamic library in e.g. C or C++, 
and as I recall Java just creates a kind of fixed reference for the duration of 
a JNI call so the JNI side of things may not tell you anything about the Java 
side of things before or after the call.

But if it helps, just to learn about pointers in various languages you  --  or 
rather, some other reader, because I suspect that you know this already! :-) -- 
  might look at <url: http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/106/>.

It contains a simple pointers example expressed in four different languages, 
namely C, C++, Pascal and Java, in particular comparing C and Java.


> If Python doesn't have pointers, then why are you talking about Python 
> passing pointers? It's a vacuous truth, like saying that Python passes 
> dinosaurs by name.

See above.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 00:17:59 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:17:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<79728aa8-073f-48c5-8162-fa57e9fefd69@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <76609ff4-6579-4b2b-80b7-fb88bd5f1fa7@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>


>
> Please check out this example on the pyparsing wiki, invRegex.py:http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/invRegex.py. ?This code
> implements a generator that returns successive matching strings for
> the given regex. ?Running it, I see that you actually have a typo in
> your example.
>
> >>> print list(invert("[1|2|3]{2}"))
>
> ['11', '1|', '12', '13', '|1', '||', '|2', '|3', '21', '2|', '22',
> '23', '31', '3|', '32', '33']
>
> I think you meant either "[123]{2}" or "(1|2|3){2}".
>
> >>> print list(invert("[123]{2}"))
>
> ['11', '12', '13', '21', '22', '23', '31', '32', '33']
>
> >>> print list(invert("(1|2|3){2}"))
>
> ['11', '12', '13', '21', '22', '23', '31', '32', '33']
>
> Of course, as other posters have pointed out, this inverter does not
> accept regexen with unbounded multiple characters '+' or '*', but '?'
> and "{min,max}" notation will work. ?Even '.' is supported, although
> this can generate a large number of return values.
>
> Of course, you'll also have to install pyparsing to get this to work.
>
> -- Paul


Hi Paul,

Thanks very much. This is exactly what I need now. I will check this
function.

Zhuo



From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 00:18:14 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:18:14 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.08.05.12.14@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.08.05.12.14@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hko6qq$8fo$2@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:21:11 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.
>> Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.
> 
> Taken from Wikipedia:
> 
> "A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the more 
> abstracted reference data type (although it is not as directly usable as 
> a C++ reference)."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)
> 
> In other words, a pointer is a specific type of reference. A reference in 
> turn is an opaque but low-level data type which "refers to" in some way 
> to the data you actually care about. (C++ has a concrete reference type, 
> which is not to be confused with abstract references.)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(computer_science)
> 
> Unless otherwise stated, references are opaque and coders need not care 
> how the reference mechanism is implemented, see e.g.:
> 
> http://www.cocoabuilder.com/archive/cocoa/20777-opaque-reference.html
> 
> In Python you don't use references directly, there is no reference type 
> or object. You can simulate the semantics of references (but not 
> pointers) by putting your object in a list and passing the list around.

Yes, sort of.

The last paragraph however confuses two different meanings of "reference".

So when using terms such as "reference" it helps to refer :-) to some specific 
terminology, unless that's clearly understood from context.


Cheers,

- Alf


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 00:23:51 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Feb 2010 21:23:51 -0800
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2130.1265592763.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hko757$4ap$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2130.1265592763.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Jean-Michel Pichavant  <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
>
>So guys, just ignore him if you don't like him. Mailers & news readers 
>have plenty of feature to make it happen.

Unfortunately, unless you have a stable group of people with
self-control, that doesn't work.  Idiots like Xah will always get
responses.  (This opinion brought to you by two decades of experience
with BBS, mailing lists, and Usenet.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  8 00:35:40 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:35:40 -0800
Subject: Python 2.4 and list of dictionary issues
In-Reply-To: <f37827421002072108gcf3629eo867359adf7433cd0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f37827421002072108gcf3629eo867359adf7433cd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002072135s68fbac3eqab417ff6fa5ac4cc@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Chris Stevens <cjstevens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a python newbie so please excuse me if I am missing something
> simple here. I am writing a script which requires a list of
> dictionaries (originally a dictionary of dictionaries, but I changed
> it to a list to try and overcome the below problem).
>
> Now my understanding is that you create the empty list, then append or
> add entries to it. Correct?
>
> Here is some code:
>
> userInfo = []
> ...
> userInfo.append( {
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'username' : uidString[0],
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?...
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'failedattempts' : int(0)
> })
>
> I'm not to sure on the bracketing here, but I have tried many
> combinations. The issue here is that I get a "IndexError: list index
> out of range" message on the line "userInfo.append( {"

Please include the full and exact error Traceback, and remember to do
so in the future.

> I wrote this script on a box with Python 2.6 and it worked fine.
> Moving it to a box with 2.4, and I get this error. I can't understand
> why i'm getting a list index out of range error when trying to append
> (not reference) a list?? I have also tried "+=", and
> userInfo(len(userInfo))= .... just get the same error.
>
> Could anyone shed some light on this?

I would guess that `uidString` is probably an empty string or list,
thus when you try to access the first character or item of it via
uidString[0], you get an error. However, as you didn't include a
Traceback, I can't be sure. I have no idea why the error only shows
itself for certain Python versions; the problem is probably in some
part of the code you're not showing us.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From danielwong at berkeley.edu  Mon Feb  8 01:06:14 2010
From: danielwong at berkeley.edu (danielx)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:06:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: convention for documenting function parameters in doc strings
Message-ID: <b63184df-504e-49be-9f0b-d63c37e1ce9d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

Is there a convention for how to document function (or method)
parameters in doc strings? Recently, I've been doing alot of PHP
programming, and in PHPdoc, you'd do it like this:

/*
 * @param type $foo Description.
 *
 * @return type Description.
 */
function bar($foo) {
  ...
}

Is there an equivalent convention I (c|sh)ould be using in my Python
docstrings? I saw that Python 3 has function annotations, which could
be used for this purpose, but function annotations have no particular
purpose within the language itself (which seems like a mistake to me),
and they don't exist in the Python 2.x series (at least not the older
versions).


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  8 01:26:14 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:26:14 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>

Craig Berry wrote:
> Can someone please tell me if there's a way to do this, or answer
> definitively that there is no way?  I have a design in progress that
> could really use mousewheel control, and I don't want to settle for
> Plan B until I know Plan A is impossible. :)
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 19:48, Craig Berry <cdberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Is there any way to get mouse wheel events from glut in PyOpenGL?
>>
>> --
>> Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
>> "Lots of things in the universe don?t solve any problems, and
>> nevertheless exist."  -- Sean Carroll
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   

Didn't I answer this already?

GLUT on windows usually does not catch mousewheel events for me.  
(Although it seems to me that is has worked sporadically over past years 
and versions.)   GLUT on Linux does catch wheel events nicely -- but 
read on anyway...

Freeglut (which is open source) is an (almost) direct binary replacement 
for GLUT, and it *does* catch mousewheel events.  (On both Windows and 
Linux.)

Is there a reason this answer is not satisfactory?  If you're not 
*forced* to use GLUT, use FREEGLUT and your problem is solved with no 
additional work.  

If you *are* forced to use GLUT, rebel.  GLUT has not been maintained 
for more than 10 years, is showing its age, and is licensed in such a 
way that you can't modify it.  Use FREEGLUT instead: see 
http://freeglut.sourceforge.net/



From half.italian at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 01:28:19 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:28:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<b0340314-a7af-4798-9634-1855d0d9eac9@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<811dd4e9-6eea-4c1f-a24b-ba0179e57f84@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f5f45f07-4853-4844-996a-dbef9b93cbae@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 4:57?pm, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestions - ?I think my next step is to try running
> it under an admin user account, as you guys both mentioned. ?Alf -
> you're absolutely right, Microsoft has srvany.exe, which allows you to
> run any EXE as a Windows service. ?I've done this in the past, but
> it's more of a "hack"..so this go around (since I will be distributing
> this program), I wanted to go the more professional route..which,
> unfortunately, involves learning the "scum". :) ?I ?posted this to
> comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32, so we'll see if what the Win32
> programmers have to say as well. ?Thanks again!

I use windows services and they are very reliable.  I would say though
that relying on plink.exe is much less reliable than either python or
the service that it is running under.

Why not take a look at paramiko as the ssh client library?  I think it
runs under windows.  Also perhaps Twisted has something.  Either way
would be light years ahead of using subprocess with plink.

Just my thoughts.

~Sean


From austin.bingham at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 01:42:24 2010
From: austin.bingham at gmail.com (Austin Bingham)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:42:24 +0100
Subject: C/C++ Import
In-Reply-To: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf1abd11002072242m66d10d84sa924d77e5e78daae@mail.gmail.com>

Does the 'python' directory contain a file named '__init__.py'? This
is required to let that directory act as a package (see:
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/modules.html#packages); without it,
you'll see the symptoms you're seeing.

Austin

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:56 AM, 7H3LaughingMan <austin.brkich at gmail.com> wrote:
> To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
> program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
> since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
> designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
> release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
> got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
> needs.
>
> The program is running the following code...
> PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );
>
> This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
> folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
> PyErr_Print())
> ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager
>
> I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
> how to do a proper import?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From cdberry at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 01:45:44 2010
From: cdberry at gmail.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:45:44 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 22:26, Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com> wrote:

> Didn't I answer this already?

If you did, for whatever reason I didn't see it; I just rechecked my
inbox to be sure. Thanks for doing so again!

I assume, given the list we're on, that Freeglut can be used with
Python.  I'll look into it.  Thanks for the pointer!

-- 
Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
"Lots of things in the universe don?t solve any problems, and
nevertheless exist."  -- Sean Carroll


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 02:19:59 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:19:59 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <m24olsyz1c.fsf@googlemail.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:

> * Chris Rebert:
>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>
>>> class Test:
>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>
>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>> value, not reference)?
>>
>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>> of what Python does use.
>
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>
> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.


Please! Not this again! This has been discussed to death and beyond more
than enough times.  Go search the c.l.p archives, read it all, and I'm
sure you won't want to add anything anymore.

-- 
Arnaud


From grflanagan at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 03:02:43 2010
From: grflanagan at gmail.com (Gerard Flanagan)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:02:43 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <m24olsyz1c.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<m24olsyz1c.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hkogf2$ruh$1@ger.gmane.org>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:
> 
>> * Chris Rebert:
>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>
>>>> class Test:
>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>
>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>> value, not reference)?
>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>> of what Python does use.
>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> 
> Please! Not this again! This has been discussed to death and beyond more
> than enough times.  Go search the c.l.p archives, read it all, and I'm
> sure you won't want to add anything anymore.
> 

+1 !!





From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Feb  8 03:11:22 2010
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:11:22 -0800
Subject: SQLite3: preventing new file creation
In-Reply-To: <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkogv9$tbn$1@ger.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gnarlodious wrote:
> Every time I say something like:
> 
> connection=sqlite3.connect(file)
> 
> sqlite creates a new database file. Can this behavior be suppressed
> through SQLite? Or am I forced to check for the file existing first?

This is due to the API that pysqlite uses to talk to SQLite.  (There is a
more recent API but pysqlite remains backwards compatible with older SQLite
versions).

Note that although SQLite will create the file, it will be zero length (*)
until you do a command that causes a database change.

Also as a guideline be careful with SQLite files.  In particular not only is
there a database file, but there may also be a journal file.  If the journal
is removed then the main database file can be corrupted.  (The journal
contains data in order to rollback back incomplete transactions from the
database.)

(*) On Mac due to an operating system bug the file will actually be created
as one byte in length containing the upper case letter 'S'.

There is a dedicated mailing list for Python and SQLite:

  http://groups.google.com/group/python-sqlite

You can use the newer SQLite database open API as well as many other SQLite
APIs not supported by pysqlite by using APSW.  (Disclaimer: I am the author
of APSW.)

Roger
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7EgAoKDdMZyDaw3Ov+Uqzs3RFX/NSHEK
=/E0N
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Feb  8 03:16:35 2010
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:16:35 -0800
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
In-Reply-To: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkoh92$u7f$1@ger.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

gintare statkute wrote:
> Does anybody know if it possible to execute sqlite3 dot commands in python?

The dot commands are parsed and executed by different code not part of the
standard SQLite library.

However if you want interactive shell functionality from Python then you can
use APSW.  It includes a shell you can just go ahead and use based on a
shell class you can extend with your own methods, direct input and output as
needed, completion etc.

  http://apsw.googlecode.com/svn/publish/shell.html

(Disclaimer: I am the APSW author)

Roger
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zrMAn1fcxS4CyKYF4KXVBcVcEXWhxoig
=hpkY
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From petef4+usenet at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 03:27:52 2010
From: petef4+usenet at gmail.com (Pete Forman)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:27:52 +0000
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4B6E1444.9060001@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2079.1265526851.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ljf4rv1z.fsf@gmail.com>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

 > En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:15:48 -0300, Jean-Michel Pichavant
 > <jeanmichel at sequans.com> escribi?:
>
>> I'm puzzled.
>> Unless my english is failing me, everything would be solved using
>> hostnames if I follow you. Why don't you do that ?
>> I am no network/IP guru, but it sounds very weird to have requests
>> rejected when using IP addresses. Are you sure your host names are
>> resolved with the same IPM address you are using ?
>
 > HTTP 1.1 requires a Host: header field; this way, multiple web
 > servers may share the same IP address. So you can't identify a host
 > by its IP alone; the host name is required. This was devised in
 > order to save IPv4 addresses; LACNIC (the Latin America addresses
 > register) does not assign addresses to ISP's based solely on web
 > hosting anymore - they MUST share existing IPs. And I think a
 > similar policy is used on other regions.

If you really want to go for speed you should be able to set the Host:
header to the name but use the IP address to make the connection.

Something else that might be slowing you down is anti-spyware or
anti-virus.  Several products put a long list of blacklist sites in
the hosts file.  Windows can be rather slow to process that file.
-- 
Pete Forman        -./\.-
West Sussex, UK      -./\.-
http://petef.22web.net -./\.-
petef4+usenet at gmail.com  -./\.-


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Mon Feb  8 03:30:51 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:30:51 +0100
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <06a91472-3974-45d3-b86a-c3c9055a5831@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
	<4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.2103.1265551059.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<06a91472-3974-45d3-b86a-c3c9055a5831@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FCBBB.3090707@bluewin.ch>

Schif Schaf wrote:
> On Feb 7, 8:57 am, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>   
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
>>> replacement operation fail?
>>>       
>> Failure is only defined in the clarified context of what the OP
>> wants :)  Replacement operations only fail if the OP's desired
>> output from the above mess doesn't change *all* of the ]/[
>> characters, but only those with some form of parity (nested or
>> otherwise).  But if the OP *does* want all of the ]/[ characters
>> replaced regardless of contextual nature, then yes, replace is a
>> much better solution than regexps.
>>
>>     
>
> I need to do the usual "pipe text through and do various search/
> replace" thing fairly often. The above case of having to replace
> brackets with braces is only one example. Simple string methods run
> out of steam pretty quickly and much of my work relies on using
> regular expressions. Yes, I try to keep focused on simplicity, and
> often regexes are the simplest solution for my day-to-day needs.
>   
Could you post a complex case? It's a kindness to your helpers to 
simplify your case, but if the simplification doesn't cover the full 
scope of your problem you can't expect the suggestions to cover it.

Frederic



From rychphd at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 03:38:12 2010
From: rychphd at gmail.com (rych)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:38:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ctypes Structure serialization
References: <615b1271-a9b0-4558-8e45-e4370698d96a@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e5b00ee3-1ac6-49de-b175-db434231ba85@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

OK, an easier question, hopefully.
How to unpack all fields from ctypes Structure line by line and save
into the name-value pairs?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb  8 03:53:24 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:53:24 +1300
Subject: The Case For Do-Once
Message-ID: <hkoje5$4nf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

I wrote my first Python extension library over the last couple of weeks. I 
took note of all the recommendations to keep track of reference counts, to 
ensure that objects were not disposed when they shouldn?t be, and were when 
they should. However, the example code seems to use gotos. And the trouble 
with these is that they don?t nest and un-nest easily; try to do too much 
refactoring with them, and you run into the age-old ?spaghetti code? 
problem.

Which is where the do-once block comes in. The basic control flow is this:
    * Unconditionally initialize all dynamic storage to nil
    * Do the main body of the code, aborting in any error
    * Regardless of success or failure of the above, dispose of all
      allocated dynamic storage, using disposal calls which turn into
      noops if passed pointers that are already nil.

For example, here?s a utility routine from my extension that, passed a 
Python array object, returns the address and length of the storage:

static void GetBufferInfo
  (
    PyObject * FromArray,
    unsigned long * addr,
    unsigned long * len
  )
  /* returns the address and length of the data in a Python array object. */
  {
    PyObject * TheBufferInfo = 0;
    PyObject * AddrObj = 0;
    PyObject * LenObj = 0;
    do /*once*/
      {
        TheBufferInfo = PyObject_CallMethod(FromArray, "buffer_info", "");
        if (TheBufferInfo == 0)
            break;
        AddrObj = PyTuple_GetItem(TheBufferInfo, 0);
        LenObj = PyTuple_GetItem(TheBufferInfo, 1);
        if (PyErr_Occurred())
            break;
        Py_INCREF(AddrObj);
        Py_INCREF(LenObj);
        *addr = PyInt_AsUnsignedLongMask(AddrObj);
        *len = PyInt_AsUnsignedLongMask(LenObj);
        if (PyErr_Occurred())
            break;
      }
    while (false);
    Py_XDECREF(AddrObj);
    Py_XDECREF(LenObj);
    Py_XDECREF(TheBufferInfo);
  } /*GetBufferInfo*/

You can pretty much determine by inspection that all the reference counts 
are properly maintained, no need to trace through convoluted flows of 
control.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 03:59:42 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:59:42 +0100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4b6fd27e$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Paul Rubin, 04.02.2010 02:51:
> John Nagle writes:
>> Analysis of each domain is
>> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
>> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>>
>>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
>> they parse web pages.  
> 
> You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
> pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
> cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
> know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
> fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
> that.

Well, if multi-core performance is so important here, then there's a pretty
simple thing the OP can do: switch to lxml.

http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/

Stefan


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb  8 04:00:37 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 09:00:37 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0795c4c2-bfd4-4372-903e-a91e45b37d50@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D195B78DC620duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oops, this one was my fault - the object I was having the issues with
> was actually a shelve file, not a dictionary..so just re-assigning the
> variable isn't working, but re-writing the object to the shelve file
> does.  So in this case, is there any way to just change a single
> value, or am I stuck rewriting the entry?

Either open the shelve with writeback=True or rewrite the entry.
Rewriting the entry isn't hard: you can just re-use the same value:

def changevalue():
    for key in mytest.keys():
        temp = mytest[key]
        temp.param3 = "newvalue"
        mytest[key] = temp

If you really are changing every item in the shelve using writeback=True 
will be much simpler, but if you are only changing a few then just tell the 
shelve that you've updated them as above.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 04:02:00 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:02:00 +0100
Subject: Stephen -- Bruce?
In-Reply-To: <2a932e46-1b81-4a97-bbee-3bf92b3b1447@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hkfkbg$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2a932e46-1b81-4a97-bbee-3bf92b3b1447@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6fd308$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Mensanator, 05.02.2010 00:36:
> On Feb 4, 5:13 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
>> What's this about all the Stephen'ses here?
>>
>> Shouldn't it be Bruce?
> 
> Of course. We just call everyone Stephen to avoid confusion.

Some people even manage to adapt the spellings accordingly.

Stefan


From louis.coilliot at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 04:02:50 2010
From: louis.coilliot at gmail.com (lofic)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:02:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: threading+popen2 hang
References: <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkmo2r$65o$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2542cf60-a193-4087-a1fe-1d60ee13c630@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 7 f?v, 17:00, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0... at d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> lofic ?<louis.coill... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Works fine on RHEL5/python 2.4.3
> >Hangs on RHEL4/python 2.3.4
>
> Then use Python 2.4 -- surely you don't expect anyone to provide bugfixes
> for a release that's several years old?
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> import antigravity


2.3 is the version provided with RHEL 4, which is still widely used in
production environments. Sometimes it is not so easy to shift to
another version in production systems.
Some people don't work with the last bleeding edge Fedora release and
must deal with (sometimes pretty old) existing system pools.
I could deploy python 2.4 in addition to python 2.3, but it is much
shake up for a little bug and a little program.
I was not expected a bugfix, but maybe a workaround.

Louis





From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb  8 04:10:07 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:10:07 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6fd27e$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <7xeikw2ivk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> writes:
> Well, if multi-core performance is so important here, then there's a pretty
> simple thing the OP can do: switch to lxml.
>
> http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/

Well, lxml is uses libxml2, a fast XML parser written in C, but AFAIK it
only works on well-formed XML.  The point of Beautiful Soup is that it
works on all kinds of garbage hand-written legacy HTML with mismatched
tags and other sorts of errors.  Beautiful Soup is slower because it's
full of special cases and hacks for that reason, and it is written in
Python.  Writing something that complex in C to handle so much
potentially malicious input would be quite a lot of work to write at
all, and very difficult to ensure was really safe.  Look at the many
browser vulnerabilities we've seen over the years due to that sort of
problem, for example.  But, for web crawling, you really do need to
handle the messy and wrong HTML properly.



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 04:16:34 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:16:34 +0100
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
In-Reply-To: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Jim, 06.02.2010 20:09:
> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
> syntax irregularities.

First thing to note here is that you should consider switching to an HTML
generation tool that does this automatically. Generating markup manually is
usually not a good idea.


> I am familiar with Beautiful Soup (use it all the time) but it is
> intended to cope with bad syntax.  I just tried feeding
> HTMLParser.HTMLParser some HTML containing '<p>a<b>b</p></b>' and it
> didn't complain.
> 
> That is, this:
>         h=HTMLParser.HTMLParser()
>         try:
>             h.feed('<p>a<b>b</p></b>')
>             h.close()
>             print "I expect not to see this line"
>         except Exception, err:
>             print "exception:",str(err)
> gives me "I expect not to see this line".
> 
> Am I using that routine incorrectly?  Is there a natural Python choice
> for this job?

You can use lxml and let it validate the HTML output against the HTML DTD.
Just load the DTD from a catalog using the DOCTYPE in the document (see the
'docinfo' property on the parse tree).

http://codespeak.net/lxml/validation.html#id1

Note that when parsing the HTML file, you should disable the parser failure
recovery to make sure it barks on syntax errors instead of fixing them up.

http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#parser-options
http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#parsing-html

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 04:19:54 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:19:54 +0100
Subject: The Case For Do-Once
In-Reply-To: <hkoje5$4nf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <hkoje5$4nf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b6fd73a$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 08.02.2010 09:53:
> I wrote my first Python extension library over the last couple of weeks. I 
> took note of all the recommendations to keep track of reference counts, to 
> ensure that objects were not disposed when they shouldn?t be, and were when 
> they should.

This sounds more like a case for Cython to me, should have saved you a lot
of time.

Stefan


From andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 04:37:53 2010
From: andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com (Andrew Degtiariov)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:37:53 +0200
Subject: Import question
In-Reply-To: <op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
References: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <5d1b76f61002080137o6e3f9a1fjdab8bcf8d3959faf@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/6 Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>

> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:21:47 -0300, Andrew Degtiariov
> <andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>  Code of our project has split into several packages and we deploy the
>> project using buildout.
>> All worked fine until I need to dynamically inspect python modules.
>>
>
> Entirely by luck, I'd say :)
>
>
>  ????project.api.config
>> ?   ????project
>> ?   ?   ????api
>> ?   ?       ????config
>> ?   ?           ????settings
>> ?   ????project.api.config.egg-info
>> ????project.api.contacts
>> ?   ????project
>> ?   ?   ????api
>> ?   ?       ????contacts
>> ?   ?           ????importer
>> ?   ?           ????views
>> ?   ????project.api.contacts.egg-info
>>
>
>  Regular code like "import project.api.config" worked fine, but now I'm
>> tryed
>> __import__('project.api.config'):
>>
>> $ bin/python
>>
>>  import project.api.config
>>>>> __import__('project.api.config')
>>>>>
>>>> <module 'project from
>> 'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>
>>
>
>
>
If someone is interesting - __import__ works but imp doesn't.
In my example:
>>> m = __import__('project.api.config')
>>> m
<module 'project from
'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>
>>> m.api
<module 'project.api from
'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\api\__init__.pyc'>
>>> m.api.config
<module 'project.api.config'
from'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.config\project\api\config\__init__.pyc'>

Please note that the m and m.api pointed to first installing package with
namespace project.api but m.api.config have pointed to the proper file.

And releasing code with several distributions it is one of goals of
Distribute. And you might look to pypi for... zope. There is lot of package
which names starts from "zope."
It's really convenient

-- 
Andrew Degtiariov
DA-RIPE
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  8 05:19:34 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:19:34 -0300
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<79728aa8-073f-48c5-8162-fa57e9fefd69@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<76609ff4-6579-4b2b-80b7-fb88bd5f1fa7@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7s0awhux6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:17:59 -0300, hzhuo1 at gmail.com <hzhuo1 at gmail.com>
escribi?:

>> Please check out this example on the pyparsing wiki,  
>> invRegex.py:http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/invRegex.py.  
>>  This code
>> implements a generator that returns successive matching strings for
>> the given regex.  [...]
>> Of course, as other posters have pointed out, this inverter does not
>> accept regexen with unbounded multiple characters '+' or '*', but '?'
>> and "{min,max}" notation will work.  Even '.' is supported, although
>> this can generate a large number of return values.
>
> Thanks very much. This is exactly what I need now. I will check this
> function.
>

Here you have another approach based on [1]. This is a generator-based
approach, yielding all strings in increasing length order. In principle it
can handle unbounded repetitions, except as written the maximum recursion
limit is shortly reached (the original code is in Haskell, I almost
blindly translated it into Python; certainly it can be rewritten more
efficiently)

You have to parse the R.E. and generate the corresponding function calls
to the merge/prod/closure functions -- pyparsing certainly can help with
that. "ab" becomes prod(a,b), "a|b" becomes merge(a,b), and "a*" becomes
closure(a)

By example, to find the language defined by this expression "(a|bc)*d",
one has to evaluate:

prod(
     closure(
       merge(['a'],
             prod(['b'],['c']))),
     ['d']
)

wich yields these strings:

d
ad
aad
bcd
aaad
abcd
bcad
...

bcbcbcbcaad
bcbcbcbcbcd
aaaaaaaaaaad

and after 234 results aborts with a recursion error :(

[1] http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/misra/Notes.dir/RegExp.pdf

-- 
Gabriel Genellina
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  8 05:19:34 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:19:34 -0300
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<79728aa8-073f-48c5-8162-fa57e9fefd69@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<76609ff4-6579-4b2b-80b7-fb88bd5f1fa7@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7s0awsfx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:17:59 -0300, hzhuo1 at gmail.com <hzhuo1 at gmail.com>
escribi?:

>> Please check out this example on the pyparsing wiki,  
>> invRegex.py:http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/invRegex.py.  
>>  This code
>> implements a generator that returns successive matching strings for
>> the given regex.  [...]
>> Of course, as other posters have pointed out, this inverter does not
>> accept regexen with unbounded multiple characters '+' or '*', but '?'
>> and "{min,max}" notation will work.  Even '.' is supported, although
>> this can generate a large number of return values.
>
> Thanks very much. This is exactly what I need now. I will check this
> function.
>

Here you have another approach based on [1]. This is a generator-based
approach, yielding all strings in increasing length order. In principle it
can handle unbounded repetitions, except as written the maximum recursion
limit is shortly reached (the original code is in Haskell, I almost
blindly translated it into Python; certainly it can be rewritten more
efficiently)

You have to parse the R.E. and generate the corresponding function calls
to the merge/prod/closure functions -- pyparsing certainly can help with
that. "ab" becomes prod(a,b), "a|b" becomes merge(a,b), and "a*" becomes
closure(a)

By example, to find the language defined by this expression "(a|bc)*d",
one has to evaluate:

prod(
     closure(
       merge(['a'],
             prod(['b'],['c']))),
     ['d']
)

wich yields these strings:

d
ad
aad
bcd
aaad
abcd
bcad
...

bcbcbcbcaad
bcbcbcbcbcd
aaaaaaaaaaad

and after 234 results aborts with a recursion error :(

[1] http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/misra/Notes.dir/RegExp.pdf

-- 
Gabriel Genellina
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From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb  8 05:19:45 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:19:45 +1300
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93 at newsspool2.arcor-online.net>, Stefan 
Behnel wrote:

> Jim, 06.02.2010 20:09:
>
>> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
>> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
>> syntax irregularities.
> 
> First thing to note here is that you should consider switching to an HTML
> generation tool that does this automatically.

I think that?s what he?s writing.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 05:36:45 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:36:45 +0100
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
In-Reply-To: <hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 08.02.2010 11:19:
> In message <4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93 at newsspool2.arcor-online.net>, Stefan 
> Behnel wrote:
> 
>> Jim, 06.02.2010 20:09:
>>
>>> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
>>> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
>>> syntax irregularities.
>> First thing to note here is that you should consider switching to an HTML
>> generation tool that does this automatically.
> 
> I think that?s what he?s writing.

I don't read it that way. There's a huge difference between

- generating HTML manually and validating (some of) it in a unit test

and

- generating HTML using a tool that guarantees correct HTML output

the advantage of the second approach being that others have already done
all the debugging for you.

Stefan


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb  8 05:49:52 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:49:52 +0100
Subject: convention for documenting function parameters in doc strings
In-Reply-To: <b63184df-504e-49be-9f0b-d63c37e1ce9d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <b63184df-504e-49be-9f0b-d63c37e1ce9d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FEC50.90708@sequans.com>

danielx wrote:
> Is there a convention for how to document function (or method)
> parameters in doc strings? Recently, I've been doing alot of PHP
> programming, and in PHPdoc, you'd do it like this:
>
> /*
>  * @param type $foo Description.
>  *
>  * @return type Description.
>  */
> function bar($foo) {
>   ...
> }
>
> Is there an equivalent convention I (c|sh)ould be using in my Python
> docstrings? I saw that Python 3 has function annotations, which could
> be used for this purpose, but function annotations have no particular
> purpose within the language itself (which seems like a mistake to me),
> and they don't exist in the Python 2.x series (at least not the older
> versions).
>   
Different strategies here:

1/ most doc builders propose their own format. You can stick to it if 
you don't want to use another builder (e.g. epydoc has a specific syntax 
to document signatures)
2/ Use a 'standard' format, usually these formats are a bit more formal 
but they gain in portability, most builders support these formats. 
reStructuredText is one of them and supported by all python doc builders.

http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-othermarkup.html

JM


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 05:57:33 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 02:57:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
Message-ID: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:

if file.endswith('xyz'):
    xyz(file)
elif file.endswith('abc'):
    abc(file)

...

Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:

func = file[-3:]
apply_func(func, file)

Can something of this kind be done in Python?

Klaus



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Feb  8 06:11:14 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:11:14 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Klaus Neuner a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
> 
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
> 
> ...
> 
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
> 
> func = file[-3:]

A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.

> apply_func(func, file)
> 
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?

The simplest (and canonical) solution is to use a dict:

def handle_txt(path):
    # code here

def handle_py(path):
    # code here

etc...

def handle_default(path):
    # for anything else


handlers = {
    ".txt" : handle_txt,
    ".py" : handle_py,
    # etc
    }


import os

def handle_file(path):
    dummy, ext = os.path.splitext(path)
    handler = handlers.get(ext, handle_default)
    return handler(path)

HTH


From boblatest at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 06:14:40 2010
From: boblatest at googlemail.com (boblatest)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:14:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Create a backslash-escaped version of a string?
Message-ID: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'd like to have control characters in a string to be converted to
their backslash-escaped counterparts. I looked in the encoders section
of the string module but couldn't find anything appropriate. I could
write it myself but I'm sure something of the sort exists. The
hypothetical method "c_escaped()" would work like this:

>>> a="abc\rdef"
>>> print a.c_escaped()
abc\rdef
>>>

Thanks,
robert


From sivaits4u at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 06:20:50 2010
From: sivaits4u at gmail.com (Bujji)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:50:50 +0530
Subject: speed of server
Message-ID: <581ce2791002080320p4e257539s6d089d5f75a62853@mail.gmail.com>

hi all,

how to find the speed of a particular server ( suppose it is hosting a site
yahoo.com)
how can i find it using python script whether it is slow or faster on that
time

help me

thanks

Bujji
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From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 06:26:39 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:26:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

>
> A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.

No, of course not. But it is, if I choose to use only (self-made) file
endings that are 3 chars long. Anyway, it was just an example.

> handlers = {
> ? ? ".txt" : handle_txt,
> ? ? ".py" : handle_py,
> ? ? # etc
> ? ? }
>

That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
forget to add its name to the dictionary. (This is not severe if there
is only one dictionary for mapping functions, but it will make life a
lot harder, if a lot of mappings of this kind are used.)

What I want is calling the string directly. In Prolog, I would use
something like:

get_file_ending(File, Ending),
Predicate =.. [Ending, File],
call(Predicate).




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  8 06:28:39 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:28:39 -0800
Subject: Create a backslash-escaped version of a string?
In-Reply-To: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002080328s55ec1369u98466118a620fb98@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:14 AM, boblatest <boblatest at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to have control characters in a string to be converted to
> their backslash-escaped counterparts. I looked in the encoders section
> of the string module but couldn't find anything appropriate. I could
> write it myself but I'm sure something of the sort exists. The
> hypothetical method "c_escaped()" would work like this:
>
>>>> a="abc\rdef"
>>>> print a.c_escaped()
> abc\rdef

print a.encode("string-escape")

Note that there are some wrinkles if the string contains quote marks
(and possibly also if it contains Unicode; I didn't test).

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Feb  8 06:30:34 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:30:34 -0500
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FF5DA.2040804@ieee.org>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
>
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
>
> ...
>
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
>
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
>
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?
>
> Klaus
>
>
>   
You perhaps were intending to use the file extension , rather than the 
last three characters of the name.  If so, consider os.path.splitext().  
And you shouldn't shadow the builtin *file* type with a variable of the 
same name.

More directly to your question, best suggestion is to build a (const) 
dictionary:

apply_func = { "xyz":xyz, "abc":abc }

which maps the strings to functions.  This line can be at outer scope, 
as long as it follows all the appropriate function definitions.  Notice 
that the individual functions need not be in the same module, if you use 
a fully qualified name in the dictionary.  And of course, there's no 
necessity of naming the function exactly the same as the extension.  So 
you could implement the functions in another module 'implem", and use 
the following:

import implem
apply_func = { "xyz":implem.process_xyz_files, 
"abc":implem.process_abc_files }

Now, you use it by something like:
     dummy, func_ext = os.path.splitext(my_filename)
     apply_func(func_ext, my_filename)

(all code untested)

DaveA



From wojciech_mula at poczta.null.onet.pl.invalid  Mon Feb  8 06:37:49 2010
From: wojciech_mula at poczta.null.onet.pl.invalid (Wojciech =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Mu=B3a?=)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:37:49 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100208123749.d0c0d6c1.wojciech_mula@poczta.null.onet.pl.invalid>

Klaus Neuner <klausneuner72 at googlemail.com> wrote:

> > handlers = {
> > ? ? ".txt" : handle_txt,
> > ? ? ".py" : handle_py,
> > ? ? # etc
> > ? ? }
> >
> 
> That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
> 'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
> anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
> forget to add its name to the dictionary.

Use dictionary mantained by runtime:

def handle(extensions):
	funname = "handle_" + extension
	return globals()[funname]
	
handle('txt') # => function handle_txt

w.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Feb  8 06:50:02 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:50:02 +0000
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FFA6A.9080604@timgolden.me.uk>

On 08/02/2010 11:26, Klaus Neuner wrote:
>>
>> A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.
>
> No, of course not. But it is, if I choose to use only (self-made) file
> endings that are 3 chars long. Anyway, it was just an example.
>
>> handlers = {
>>      ".txt" : handle_txt,
>>      ".py" : handle_py,
>>      # etc
>>      }
>>
>
> That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
> 'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
> anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
> forget to add its name to the dictionary. (This is not severe if there
> is only one dictionary for mapping functions, but it will make life a
> lot harder, if a lot of mappings of this kind are used.)
>
> What I want is calling the string directly. In Prolog, I would use
> something like:
>
> get_file_ending(File, Ending),
> Predicate =.. [Ending, File],
> call(Predicate).

You basically need a getattr lookup. If you're prepared to instantiate
a class or to import a handlers module then you can just look up against
that:

<handlers.py>
def handle_py (stuff):
   "print handling py"

def handle_default (stuff):
   "print handling default"

</handlers.py>

<main>
import handlers

ext = "py"
handler = getattr (handlers, "handle_" + ext, handlers.handle_default)
handler ("stuff")

</main>

You can do the equivalent by having a Handlers class with
the appropriate methods (handle_py, etc.) and which
you then instantiate.

If you want to keep everything in one module, you should be
able to achieve the same effect by looking the module up
in sys.modules and then proceeding as above:

<whatever.py>
import sys

def handle_py (stuff):
   print "handling py"

def handle_default (stuff):
   print "handling default"

ext = "py"
me = sys.modules[__name__]
handler = getattr (me, "handle_" + ext, me.handle_default)
handler ("blah")

</whatever.py>

(All untested...)

TJG


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 06:51:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:51:38 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.08.03.14.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.08.03.14.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkotuc$5v3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:03:06 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> Alf:
>>
>> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
>> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
>> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
>> real advantage.
> 
> Curse you Steve, I had just come up with a brilliant rebuttal of Alf's 
> position. It was sheer genius, the sort of thing that would have James 
> Gosling weeping with envy.
> 
> Oh well, into the bitbucket it goes...
> 
> 
You're a better man for it, Steven! Admirable self-restraint ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 06:59:02 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:59:02 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkouca$9k5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
[...]
>> Alf:
>>
>> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
>> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
>> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
>> real advantage.
> 
> Well that's my point, and thanks for backing me up on that :-): it's
> very simple, and as demonstrated can be expressed in 10 words or less
> (plus perhaps a terminology reference, as I did above), so all that
> discussion and in particular the lengthy article at effbot serves as
> obfuscation and nothing else.
> 
Please don't assume I was trying to support you. Your remarks showed
considerable ignorance of issue that were extremely nuanced. Whatever
point you were trying to make was lost in your self-aggrandizing
disrespect of Fredrik Lundh, a software engineer of some repute with a
long history of contribution to Python. The fact that your post was
basically a restatement of one of the several competing positions in
that thread makes it no more right than any of the others.

> By the way, most every programming language has some corner like that,
> something that is utterly simple but somehow has some kind of
> obfuscation-meme attached.
> 
Why thank you for the education. Somehow in my 40-odd years of
programming I had quite overlooked that fact. Which helps how?

> In C++ it's "call" and "constructor". It doesn't help that the
> language's standard lays down the law on it, it doesn't help that the
> language's creator has laid down the law, it doesn't help that it's
> utterly and completely simple. Somehow newbies and even some experienced
> people manage to create their own terminological nightmare  and drawing
> conclusions about reality from that misguided obfuscated view, and then
> discussing it up and down and sideways.
> 
Which IMHO you have done little to assist. Just how exactly *do* we
succeed in asking you not to discuss something?

yours intemperate-ly  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb  8 06:59:39 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:59:39 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FFCAB.2040802@sequans.com>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
>
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
>
> ...
>
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
>
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
>
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?
>
> Klaus
>
>   
You won't need anything else than defining the proper function to 
support the extension with the following code:


import os

class Handlers:

    class NoHandler(Exception):
        pass
   
    @staticmethod
    def txt(fileName):
        print 'I am processing a txt file'

    @staticmethod
    def tar(fileName):
        print 'I am processing a tar file'

    @classmethod
    def default(cls, fileName):
        raise cls.NoHandler("I don't know how to handle %s " % fileName)

for fileName in ['/tmp/test.txt', '/tmp/sdfsd.sfds']:
    _, extension = os.path.splitext(fileName)
    func = getattr(Handlers, extension.replace('.', ''), Handlers.default)
    try:
        func(fileName)
    except Handlers.NoHandler, exc:
        print exc


JM


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 07:01:42 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:01:42 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkogf2$ruh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<m24olsyz1c.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<hkogf2$ruh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkouh9$9k5$2@ger.gmane.org>

Gerard Flanagan wrote:
> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:
>>
>>> * Chris Rebert:
>>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>>
>>>>> class Test:
>>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>>
>>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>>> of what Python does use.
>>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
>>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>>
>>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>
>>
>> Please! Not this again! This has been discussed to death and beyond more
>> than enough times.  Go search the c.l.p archives, read it all, and I'm
>> sure you won't want to add anything anymore.
>>
> 
> +1 !!
> 
+1000
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 07:03:10 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:03:10 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6ffd7e$0$6735$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Klaus Neuner, 08.02.2010 11:57:
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
> 
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
> 
> ...
> 
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
> 
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
> 
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?

Others have already pointed you to the approach of using a dict, or a
module/class namespace with functions/methods to do this. Either of the
latter two would be my favourite, depending on the complexity of the
handlers. A class is more suitable as a container for short, highly
correlated handlers, whereas a module makes more sense for handlers that do
rather different things, or that are longer than a single function. A
mixture of the two, e.g. a module of classes, where an entire class is used
to implement a complete handler over several methods (potentially including
some inheritance hierarchy between handlers that share functionality) might
also be a solution. Note that objects can be callable in Python (special
method __call__), you can exploit that here.

What you are implementing here is commonly called a dispatch mechanism,
BTW. There are several ways to do that, also within in Python. A web search
should reveal some more.

Stefan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 07:08:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:08:15 -0500
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FFEAF.5070305@holdenweb.com>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
>> A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.
> 
> No, of course not. But it is, if I choose to use only (self-made) file
> endings that are 3 chars long. Anyway, it was just an example.
> 
>> handlers = {
>>     ".txt" : handle_txt,
>>     ".py" : handle_py,
>>     # etc
>>     }
>>
> 
> That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
> 'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
> anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
> forget to add its name to the dictionary. (This is not severe if there
> is only one dictionary for mapping functions, but it will make life a
> lot harder, if a lot of mappings of this kind are used.)
> 
> What I want is calling the string directly. In Prolog, I would use
> something like:
> 
> get_file_ending(File, Ending),
> Predicate =.. [Ending, File],
> call(Predicate).
> 
> 


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 07:08:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:08:15 -0500
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FFEAF.5070305@holdenweb.com>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
>> A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.
> 
> No, of course not. But it is, if I choose to use only (self-made) file
> endings that are 3 chars long. Anyway, it was just an example.
> 
>> handlers = {
>>     ".txt" : handle_txt,
>>     ".py" : handle_py,
>>     # etc
>>     }
>>
> 
> That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
> 'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
> anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
> forget to add its name to the dictionary. (This is not severe if there
> is only one dictionary for mapping functions, but it will make life a
> lot harder, if a lot of mappings of this kind are used.)
> 
> What I want is calling the string directly. In Prolog, I would use
> something like:
> 
> get_file_ending(File, Ending),
> Predicate =.. [Ending, File],
> call(Predicate).
> 
> 


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From tim_grove at sil.org  Mon Feb  8 09:22:56 2010
From: tim_grove at sil.org (Timothy W. Grove)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:22:56 +0000
Subject: Python User Group near Cheltenham, UK ?
Message-ID: <4B701E40.2030307@sil.org>

Anyone know of an 'active' Python User Group near Cheltenham, UK? I 
spotted one in Birmingham (http://www.pywm.eu), but would like one a 
little closer ... :-)

Tim


From jfabiani at yolo.com  Mon Feb  8 09:27:21 2010
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (jfabiani at yolo.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:27:21 -0800
Subject: Calendar GUI
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>	<1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2069.1265506605.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GaCdndFHyMHXgu3WnZ2dnUVZ_q1i4p2d@wavecable.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Michael Torrie wrote:
>> Gabriel wrote:
>>   
>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggioli at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>     
>>>> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to
>>>> help them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd
>>>> like to add is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival
>>>> dates and staying time, with potentially some other info through some
>>>> double-click action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is
>>>> there some open-source calendar program you guys could recommend that I
>>>> could plug into? It has to be run locally, as the internet isn't so
>>>> reliable down here, but other than that something simple and clean is
>>>> ideal.
>>>>       

Take a look at wxscheduler, and chandler.

Johnf


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Feb  8 09:28:41 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:28:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <hkp72p$5rs$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:02:49 -0800, John Nagle a ?crit?:
> I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a multicore
> CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
> ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate if
> the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time, but it's
> worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to a lame locking
> implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded code on a dual-core CPU
> runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core CPU, according to Beasley.

That's on certain types of workloads, and perhaps on certain OSes, so you 
should try benching your own workload to see whether it applies.

Two closing remarks:
- this should (hopefully) be fixed in 3.2, as exarkun noticed
- instead of spawning one thread per Web page, you could use Twisted or 
another event loop mechanism in order to process pages serially, in the 
order of arrival

Regards

Antoine.




From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Feb  8 09:46:09 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:46:09 +0000
Subject: Python User Group near Cheltenham, UK ?
In-Reply-To: <4B701E40.2030307@sil.org>
References: <4B701E40.2030307@sil.org>
Message-ID: <4B7023B1.2050802@timgolden.me.uk>

On 08/02/2010 14:22, Timothy W. Grove wrote:
> Anyone know of an 'active' Python User Group near Cheltenham, UK? I
> spotted one in Birmingham (http://www.pywm.eu), but would like one a
> little closer ... :-)

Don't think there's anything further west than Northants / W. Midlands.
There are Open Source things in Oxford but nothing Python-specific, I
believe.

TJG


From austin.brkich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 09:50:20 2010
From: austin.brkich at gmail.com (7H3LaughingMan)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:50:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C/C++ Import
References: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2139.1265611346.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4d7eb353-fb6b-4379-beee-8971ddc2472d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

The folder does contain a file named '__init__.py'. However it
contains nothing inside of the file.

On Feb 8, 12:42?am, Austin Bingham <austin.bing... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does the 'python' directory contain a file named '__init__.py'? This
> is required to let that directory act as a package (see:http://docs.python.org/tutorial/modules.html#packages);without it,
> you'll see the symptoms you're seeing.
>
> Austin
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:56 AM, 7H3LaughingMan <austin.brk... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
> > program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
> > since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
> > designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
> > release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
> > got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
> > needs.
>
> > The program is running the following code...
> > PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );
>
> > This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
> > folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
> > PyErr_Print())
> > ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager
>
> > I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
> > how to do a proper import?
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



From Steven.Rumbalski at fiserv.com  Mon Feb  8 09:51:02 2010
From: Steven.Rumbalski at fiserv.com (Steven)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:51:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
References: <mailman.1949.1265374022.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <770583c3-a7c7-4a3d-b90f-9546801040e3@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 7:45?am, "Frank Millman" <fr... at chagford.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Assume you have a server process running, a pool of worker threads to
> perform tasks, and aQueue.Queue() to pass the tasks to the workers.
>
> In order to shut down the server cleanly, you want to ensure that the
> workers have all finished their tasks. I like the technique of putting a
> None onto thequeue, and have each worker check for None, put None back onto
> thequeue, and terminate itself.
>
> The main program would look something like this -
>
> ? ? q.put(None)
> ? ? for worker in worker_threads:
> ? ? ? ? worker.join()
>
> At this point you can be sure that each thread has completed its tasks and
> terminated itself.
>
> However, thequeueis not empty - it still has the final None in it.
>
> Is it advisable to finalise the cleanup like this? -
>
> ? ? while not q.empty():
> ? ? ? ? q.get()
> ? ? ? ? q.task_done()
> ? ? q.join()
>
> Or is this completely redundant?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank Millman

Queue objects have support for this signaling baked in with
q.task_done and q.join.

After the server process has put all tasks into the queue, it can join
the queue itself, not the worker threads.

q.join()

This will block until all tasks have been gotten AND completed.  The
worker threads would simply do this:
task_data = q.get()
do_task(task_data)
q.task_done()

Using pairs of get and task_done you no longer need to send a signal.
Just exit the server process and the worker threads will die (assuming
of course, you set .setDaemon(True) before starting each worker
thread).

Steven Rumbalski


From grflanagan at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 10:00:27 2010
From: grflanagan at gmail.com (Gerard Flanagan)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:00:27 +0000
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkp8ub$g0c$1@ger.gmane.org>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
> 
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
> 
> ...
> 
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
> 
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
> 

As mentioned, a dictionary dispatch will do what you want, but you can 
also use the self-registering technique outlined here:

http://effbot.org/zone/metaclass-plugins.htm [Fredrik Lundh]

(For Plugin, read Handler in this case.)

One idea might be to have Handler classes such as:

class TextHandler(HandlerType):
     extensions = ['', 'txt', 'rst']

     def run(self, *args, **kw):
         .... do stuff


then the __init__ of HandlerType's metaclass:

         def __init__(cls, name, bases, attrs):
             for ext in attrs.get('extensions', []):
                 registry[ext] = cls

then use like:

  registry['txt']().run()

If you don't need state, you could perhaps make 'run' a staticmethod and 
store it rather than the class,

eg. registry[ext] = cls.run

and then just:

  registry['txt']()

hth

G.F

------------------------------------------------------------------------

registry = {}

class HandlerType(object):
     class __metaclass__(type):
         def __init__(cls, name, bases, attrs):
             for ext in attrs.get('extensions', []):
                 registry[ext] = cls

class TextHandler(HandlerType):
     extensions = ['', 'txt']

print registry



From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 10:22:03 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:22:03 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2155.1265630440.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2155.1265630440.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkpa64$43s$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
> [...]
>>> Alf:
>>>
>>> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
>>> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
>>> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
>>> real advantage.
>> Well that's my point, and thanks for backing me up on that :-): it's
>> very simple, and as demonstrated can be expressed in 10 words or less
>> (plus perhaps a terminology reference, as I did above), so all that
>> discussion and in particular the lengthy article at effbot serves as
>> obfuscation and nothing else.
>>
> Please don't assume I was trying to support you. Your remarks showed
> considerable ignorance of issue that were extremely nuanced. Whatever
> point you were trying to make was lost in your self-aggrandizing
> disrespect of Fredrik Lundh, a software engineer of some repute with a
> long history of contribution to Python. The fact that your post was
> basically a restatement of one of the several competing positions in
> that thread makes it no more right than any of the others.

What on Earth are you babbling about?

Perhaps next you'll drag in the Pope, saying I've shown him some disrespect.

News for you: the Pope ain't participating.


>> By the way, most every programming language has some corner like that,
>> something that is utterly simple but somehow has some kind of
>> obfuscation-meme attached.
>>
> Why thank you for the education. Somehow in my 40-odd years of
> programming I had quite overlooked that fact. Which helps how?
> 
>> In C++ it's "call" and "constructor". It doesn't help that the
>> language's standard lays down the law on it, it doesn't help that the
>> language's creator has laid down the law, it doesn't help that it's
>> utterly and completely simple. Somehow newbies and even some experienced
>> people manage to create their own terminological nightmare  and drawing
>> conclusions about reality from that misguided obfuscated view, and then
>> discussing it up and down and sideways.
>>
> Which IMHO you have done little to assist. Just how exactly *do* we
> succeed in asking you not to discuss something?

That's just a silly as the above. Hello? *Not* discuss an on-topic topic?

Anyways, we haven't reached discussion yet, if it will ever come to that.

All I see is a lot of silly noise about a simple trivially true technical 
statement, with incoherent allegations of disrespect to the Pope, the current 
king of France, and whomever, unfortunately as usual in this group. :-(



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Feb  8 10:24:32 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:24:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2011.1265406841.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<36952f27-c825-4ab8-bd2e-7dff097075fd@d30g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0434e8b6-fe13-4eed-97c7-090c1c2b0a3a@y7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 5:21?pm, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 4:53?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 5, 3:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> > >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> > >> > Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> > >> > verbNoun?
>
> > >> > For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> > >> > but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> > >> > should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> > >> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
> > >> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>
> > >> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
>
> > > Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.
>
> > > ? ?def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
> > > ? ? ? ?"""
> > > ? ? ? ?Get the Abbe Number V for the material
> > > ? ? ? ?where
> > > ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> > > ? ? ? ?where the Index of Refractions are
> > > ? ? ? ?Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
> > > ? ? ? ?Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
> > > ? ? ? ?Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
> > > ? ? ? ?"""
>
> > > ? ? ? ?Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
> > > ? ? ? ?Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
> > > ? ? ? ?Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)
>
> > > ? ? ? ?if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> > > ? ? ? ?else:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ?V = 1e6
>
> > > ? ? ? ?return V
>
> > This isn't even really a method; you don't refer to "self" in the body
> > at all. Why isn't it just a function?
>
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > --http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> Okay, I guess it should be a function called abbe() instead of a
> method called AbbeGet(). That should solve the problem of trying to
> remember whether I called it GetAbbe or AbbeGet.
>
> Thanks

Actually I decided it still should be a method, just not of doublet
but of Lens. so the calls change from

V1 = self.AbbeGet(Lens1)
V2 = self.AbbeGet(Lens2)

V1 = self.Lens1.abbe()
V2 = self.Lens2.abbe()



From boblatest at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 10:50:55 2010
From: boblatest at googlemail.com (boblatest)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:50:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Create a backslash-escaped version of a string?
References: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2150.1265628523.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21d5019a-95ed-4c28-8c8e-8f2a6b9fc050@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 12:28?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> print a.encode("string-escape")

How could I miss that? I was on that doc page already. Should have
typed "/escape" in the browser ;-)

Thanks,
robert


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  8 11:02:54 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:02:54 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>	
	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>
	<8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7035AE.2020500@islandtraining.com>

Craig Berry wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 22:26, Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Didn't I answer this already?
>>     
>
> If you did, for whatever reason I didn't see it; I just rechecked my
> inbox to be sure. Thanks for doing so again!
>
> I assume, given the list we're on, that Freeglut can be used with
> Python.  I'll look into it.  Thanks for the pointer!
>
>   
Yes, easily.   PyOpenGL has bindings for all the procedures in 
GLUT/FREEGLUT.  Just tell PyOpenGL to use the freeglut library instead, 
or even just copy freeglut (.dll or .so or whatever) over your existing 
glut library (glut32.dll or whatever).  It really can serve as a binary 
drop in replacement.

Gary Herron



From james at agentultra.com  Mon Feb  8 11:21:07 2010
From: james at agentultra.com (J Kenneth King)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:21:07 -0500
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6fd27e$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<7xeikw2ivk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <85zl3ju2a4.fsf@agentultra.com>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:

> Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> writes:
>> Well, if multi-core performance is so important here, then there's a pretty
>> simple thing the OP can do: switch to lxml.
>>
>> http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/
>
> Well, lxml is uses libxml2, a fast XML parser written in C, but AFAIK it
> only works on well-formed XML.  The point of Beautiful Soup is that it
> works on all kinds of garbage hand-written legacy HTML with mismatched
> tags and other sorts of errors.  Beautiful Soup is slower because it's
> full of special cases and hacks for that reason, and it is written in
> Python.  Writing something that complex in C to handle so much
> potentially malicious input would be quite a lot of work to write at
> all, and very difficult to ensure was really safe.  Look at the many
> browser vulnerabilities we've seen over the years due to that sort of
> problem, for example.  But, for web crawling, you really do need to
> handle the messy and wrong HTML properly.

If the difference is great enough, you might get a benefit from
analyzing all pages with lxml and throwing invalid pages into a bucket
for later processing with BeautifulSoup.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 11:22:40 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 08:22:40 -0800
Subject: threading+popen2 hang
References: <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkmo2r$65o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2542cf60-a193-4087-a1fe-1d60ee13c630@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkpdog$rqc$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <2542cf60-a193-4087-a1fe-1d60ee13c630 at v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
lofic  <louis.coilliot at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 7 f=E9v, 17:00, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0... at d27g2000yqn.googlegroups=
>.com>,
>> lofic =A0<louis.coill... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Works fine on RHEL5/python 2.4.3
>>>Hangs on RHEL4/python 2.3.4
>>
>> Then use Python 2.4 -- surely you don't expect anyone to provide bugfixes
>> for a release that's several years old?
>
>2.3 is the version provided with RHEL 4, which is still widely used in
>production environments. Sometimes it is not so easy to shift to
>another version in production systems.

Believe me, I'm well aware of that (my last job was also stuck on 2.3).
Nevertheless, the pool of people familiar with the minutiae of bugs for
both Python 2.3 and 2.4 is dwindling daily, and your best recourse is
intensive Googling.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From misceverything at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 11:37:38 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:37:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<b0340314-a7af-4798-9634-1855d0d9eac9@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<811dd4e9-6eea-4c1f-a24b-ba0179e57f84@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com> 
	<f5f45f07-4853-4844-996a-dbef9b93cbae@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a9ddbc28-3f27-4884-994b-dea5c313d994@b18g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 1:28?am, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 4:57?pm, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the suggestions - ?I think my next step is to try running
> > it under an admin user account, as you guys both mentioned. ?Alf -
> > you're absolutely right, Microsoft has srvany.exe, which allows you to
> > run any EXE as a Windows service. ?I've done this in the past, but
> > it's more of a "hack"..so this go around (since I will be distributing
> > this program), I wanted to go the more professional route..which,
> > unfortunately, involves learning the "scum". :) ?I ?posted this to
> > comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32, so we'll see if what the Win32
> > programmers have to say as well. ?Thanks again!
>
> I use windows services and they are very reliable. ?I would say though
> that relying on plink.exe is much less reliable than either python or
> the service that it is running under.
>
> Why not take a look at paramiko as the ssh client library? ?I think it
> runs under windows. ?Also perhaps Twisted has something. ?Either way
> would be light years ahead of using subprocess with plink.
>
> Just my thoughts.
>
> ~Sean

I totally agree that it would be much more reliable to use a Python
library for SSH - however, the program will need to execute other
external binaries as well.  So my goal at this point is to track down
_why_ it's failing when running as a service.  The actual command is
as follows:

C:\plink.exe -R 9999:127.0.0.1:2020 -batch -i C:\keyfile.ppk
user at 10.10.10.1

I tried having subprocess.Popen run plink.exe by itself and piping
output to file, and this worked - so I know it's at least executing
plink.exe.  Sorry, I realize this isn't truly just a Python-related
question, but any help would be greatly appreciated!  So far no help
at comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32..


From jkrukoff at ltgc.com  Mon Feb  8 11:43:10 2010
From: jkrukoff at ltgc.com (John Krukoff)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:43:10 -0700
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <7xeikw2ivk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6fd27e$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<7xeikw2ivk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1265647390.10548.1804.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 01:10 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> writes:
> > Well, if multi-core performance is so important here, then there's a pretty
> > simple thing the OP can do: switch to lxml.
> >
> > http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/
> 
> Well, lxml is uses libxml2, a fast XML parser written in C, but AFAIK it
> only works on well-formed XML.  The point of Beautiful Soup is that it
> works on all kinds of garbage hand-written legacy HTML with mismatched
> tags and other sorts of errors.  Beautiful Soup is slower because it's
> full of special cases and hacks for that reason, and it is written in
> Python.  Writing something that complex in C to handle so much
> potentially malicious input would be quite a lot of work to write at
> all, and very difficult to ensure was really safe.  Look at the many
> browser vulnerabilities we've seen over the years due to that sort of
> problem, for example.  But, for web crawling, you really do need to
> handle the messy and wrong HTML properly.
> 

Actually, lxml has an HTML parser which does pretty well with the
standard level of broken one finds most often on the web. And, when it
falls down, it's easy to integrate BeautifulSoup as a slow backup for
when things go really wrong (as J Kenneth King mentioned earlier):

http://codespeak.net/lxml/lxmlhtml.html#parsing-html

At least in my experience, I haven't actually had to parse anything that
lxml couldn't handle yet, however.
-- 
John Krukoff <jkrukoff at ltgc.com>
Land Title Guarantee Company



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  8 11:52:17 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:52:17 -0500
Subject: C/C++ Import
In-Reply-To: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkpffr$7tv$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/7/2010 10:56 PM, 7H3LaughingMan wrote:
> To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
> program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
> since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
> designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
> release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
> got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
> needs.
>
> The program is running the following code...
> PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );
>
> This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
> folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
> PyErr_Print())
> ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager
>
> I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
> how to do a proper import?

Your 'python' package directory must be in a directory listed in 
sys.path. I would print that check.



From misceverything at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:05:05 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:05:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<0795c4c2-bfd4-4372-903e-a91e45b37d50@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> 
	<Xns9D195B78DC620duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7c8003e9-5813-4891-bcc8-6e00e69740b2@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 4:00?am, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Oops, this one was my fault - the object I was having the issues with
> > was actually a shelve file, not a dictionary..so just re-assigning the
> > variable isn't working, but re-writing the object to the shelve file
> > does. ?So in this case, is there any way to just change a single
> > value, or am I stuck rewriting the entry?
>
> Either open the shelve with writeback=True or rewrite the entry.
> Rewriting the entry isn't hard: you can just re-use the same value:
>
> def changevalue():
> ? ? for key in mytest.keys():
> ? ? ? ? temp = mytest[key]
> ? ? ? ? temp.param3 = "newvalue"
> ? ? ? ? mytest[key] = temp
>
> If you really are changing every item in the shelve using writeback=True
> will be much simpler, but if you are only changing a few then just tell the
> shelve that you've updated them as above.
>
> --
> Duncan Boothhttp://kupuguy.blogspot.com


Duncan - Thanks for your help.  So each of the shelve entries I'm
modifying look something like this:  myshelve[key] =
TestClassObject(param1, param2, param3, param4, param5, etc.).  In
this case, with quite a few parameters, would you suggest setting
writeback=True and just modifying the needed value, or rewriting the
entire entry?  I have to admit the writeback option looks good, and if
the TestClassObject format ever changes (i.e. if I ever change the
order of the params), this particular function will be unchanged.
However, I don't know what the performance hit would be in using it.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:07:56 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:07:56 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkpgbg$bab$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100, mk wrote:
> 
>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/
> choose_python.pdf
>>>
>> Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored.
>> Oh well..
> 
> With an attitude like that, you're damn lucky if you don't get kill-
> filed. It was SIX MINUTES since you posted your question about timers, 
> what did you expect?

I didn't expect immediate answer to this particular question. I have 
repeatedly asked many questions about threads in the past, and IIRC 
every one of them was ignored.

> 
> Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might never 
> get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after six DAYS 
> might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but after six 
> minutes?

Well, it's 4 days now. I would be happy to get 50% response rate. 
Apparently nobody is really using threads.

regards,
mk





From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:12:46 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:12:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <a2771bdf-2de3-41b6-b980-17ec9c31e416@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> I don't read it that way. There's a huge difference between
>
> - generating HTML manually and validating (some of) it in a unit test
>
> and
>
> - generating HTML using a tool that guarantees correct HTML output
>
> the advantage of the second approach being that others have already done
> all the debugging for you.

Anyone TDDing around HTML or XML should use or fork my assert_xml()
(from django-test-extensions).

The current version trivially detects a leading <html> tag and uses
etree.HTML(xml); else it goes with the stricter etree.XML(xml). The
former will not complain about the provided sample HTML.

Sadly, the industry has such a legacy of HTML written in Notepad that
well-formed (X)HTML will never be well-formed XML. My own action item
here is to apply Stefan's parser_options suggestion to make the
etree.HTML() stricter.

However, a generator is free to produce arbitrarily restricted XML
that avoids the problems with XHTML. It could, for example, push any
Javascript that even dreams of using & instead of &amp; out into .js
files.

So an assert_xml() hot-wired to process only XML - with the true HTML
doctype - is still useful to TDD generated code, because its XPath
reference will detect that you get the nodes you expect.

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  8 12:31:13 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:31:13 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B704A61.7070405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:05 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> How do I get a pointer in pure Python code (no ctypes)? I tried both 
> Pascal and C syntax (^x and *x), but both give syntax errors.
> 
In Pascal it's x^.

> For that matter, how do I get a pointer in Java code?
> 
> If Python doesn't have pointers, then why are you talking about Python 
> passing pointers? It's a vacuous truth, like saying that Python passes 
> dinosaurs by name.
> 



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  8 12:33:45 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:33:45 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkpa64$43s$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2155.1265630440.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkpa64$43s$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B704AF9.2030804@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Steve Holden:
>> [...]
>>>> Alf:
>>>>
>>>> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a 
>>>> year
>>>> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
>>>> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to 
>>>> nobody's
>>>> real advantage.
>>> Well that's my point, and thanks for backing me up on that :-): it's
>>> very simple, and as demonstrated can be expressed in 10 words or less
>>> (plus perhaps a terminology reference, as I did above), so all that
>>> discussion and in particular the lengthy article at effbot serves as
>>> obfuscation and nothing else.
>>>
>> Please don't assume I was trying to support you. Your remarks showed
>> considerable ignorance of issue that were extremely nuanced. Whatever
>> point you were trying to make was lost in your self-aggrandizing
>> disrespect of Fredrik Lundh, a software engineer of some repute with a
>> long history of contribution to Python. The fact that your post was
>> basically a restatement of one of the several competing positions in
>> that thread makes it no more right than any of the others.
> 
> What on Earth are you babbling about?
> 
> Perhaps next you'll drag in the Pope, saying I've shown him some 
> disrespect.
> 
> News for you: the Pope ain't participating.
> 
[snip]

The Pope isn't (as far as we know) a Pythonista.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb  8 12:57:45 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 17:57:45 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0795c4c2-bfd4-4372-903e-a91e45b37d50@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D195B78DC620duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<7c8003e9-5813-4891-bcc8-6e00e69740b2@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D19B6BA2310Aduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
> Duncan - Thanks for your help.  So each of the shelve entries I'm
> modifying look something like this:  myshelve[key]
> TestClassObject(param1, param2, param3, param4, param5, etc.).  In 
> this case, with quite a few parameters, would you suggest setting 
> writeback=True and just modifying the needed value, or rewriting the 
> entire entry?  I have to admit the writeback option looks good, and if
> the TestClassObject format ever changes (i.e. if I ever change the
> order of the params), this particular function will be unchanged.
> However, I don't know what the performance hit would be in using it.

Only you know your data and pattern of use. Try a few tests to get a feel 
of the trade-offs between explicitly flagging items as changed or using 
writeback=True.


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 13:16:22 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:16:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<a2771bdf-2de3-41b6-b980-17ec9c31e416@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5e67584b-2421-4254-addf-b4a355836a20@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

and the tweak is:

                parser = etree.HTMLParser(recover=False)
                return etree.HTML(xml, parser)

That reduces tolerance. The entire assert_xml() is (apologies for
wrapping lines!):

    def _xml_to_tree(self, xml):
        from lxml import etree
        self._xml = xml

        try:
            if '<html' in xml[:200]:  #  NOTE the condition COULD suck
more!
                parser = etree.HTMLParser(recover=False)
                return etree.HTML(xml, parser)
                return etree.HTML(xml)
            else:
                return etree.XML(xml)

        except ValueError:  #  TODO  don't rely on exceptions for
normal control flow
            tree = xml
            self._xml = str(tree)  #  CONSIDER  does this reconstitute
the nested XML ?
            return tree

    def assert_xml(self, xml, xpath, **kw):
        'Check that a given extent of XML or HTML contains a given
XPath, and return its first node'

        tree = self._xml_to_tree(xml)
        nodes = tree.xpath(xpath)
        self.assertTrue(len(nodes) > 0, xpath + ' not found in ' +
self._xml)
        node = nodes[0]
        if kw.get('verbose', False):  self.reveal_xml(node)  #  "here
have ye been? What have ye seen?"--Morgoth
        return node

    def reveal_xml(self, node):
        'Spews an XML node as source, for diagnosis'

        from lxml import etree
        print etree.tostring(node, pretty_print=True)  #  CONSIDER
does pretty_print work? why not?

    def deny_xml(self, xml, xpath):
        'Check that a given extent of XML or HTML does not contain a
given XPath'

        tree = self._xml_to_tree(xml)
        nodes = tree.xpath(xpath)
        self.assertEqual(0, len(nodes), xpath + ' should not appear in
' + self._xml)


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Feb  8 14:04:19 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:04:19 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 08.02.10 02:51, schrieb Alf P. Steinbach:
> * Chris Rebert:
>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>> missing. I have a class Test, for example:
>>>
>>> class Test:
>>> def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>> self.param1 = param1
>>> self.param2 = param2
>>> self.param3 = param3
>>>
>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test. If
>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>> value, not reference)?
>>
>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>> of what Python does use.
>
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to
> the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>
> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>
> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to
> point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are
> called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for
> Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's
> just one extra little para.
>
> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
>
> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.

Whao. You just needed 10 words, plus a paragraph to explain something in 
terms of a spec that's just about 600 pages strong. Amazing display of 
conciseness, and certainly the most valuable thing for some programming 
newbie to work with. Thanks!

Diez


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 14:10:00 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:10:00 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Diez B. Roggisch:
> Am 08.02.10 02:51, schrieb Alf P. Steinbach:
>> * Chris Rebert:
>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>> missing. I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>
>>>> class Test:
>>>> def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>> self.param1 = param1
>>>> self.param2 = param2
>>>> self.param3 = param3
>>>>
>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test. If
>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>
>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>> of what Python does use.
>>
>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to
>> the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>
>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to
>> point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are
>> called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for
>> Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's
>> just one extra little para.
>>
>> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
>>
>> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
> 
> Whao. You just needed 10 words, plus a paragraph to explain something in 
> terms of a spec that's just about 600 pages strong. Amazing display of 
> conciseness, and certainly the most valuable thing for some programming 
> newbie to work with. Thanks!

I apologize for assuming that "pointer" is a known word to [c.l.p.] denizens.

But, if it can help, although for clarity I had to provide a concrete reference, 
you don't need to read the complete Java language spec to understand that word.

Just Google it.


Cheers & hth.,

- ALf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  8 14:21:15 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:21:15 -0300
Subject: Import question
References: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
	<5d1b76f61002080137o6e3f9a1fjdab8bcf8d3959faf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7tpdpz4x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:37:53 -0300, Andrew Degtiariov
<andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com> escribi?:
> 2010/2/6 Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:21:47 -0300, Andrew Degtiariov
>> <andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>
>>
>>> Code of our project has split into several packages and we deploy the
>>> project using buildout.
>>> All worked fine until I need to dynamically inspect python modules.
>> Entirely by luck, I'd say :)
>>
>>
>>  ????project.api.config
>>> ?   ????project
>>> ?   ?   ????api
>>> ?   ?       ????config
>>> ?   ?           ????settings
>>> ?   ????project.api.config.egg-info
>>> ????project.api.contacts
>>> ?   ????project
>>> ?   ?   ????api
>>> ?   ?       ????contacts
>>> ?   ?           ????importer
>>> ?   ?           ????views
>>> ?   ????project.api.contacts.egg-info
>>>

> If someone is interesting - __import__ works but imp doesn't.
> In my example:
>>>> m = __import__('project.api.config')
>>>> m
> <module 'project from
> 'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>
>>>> m.api
> <module 'project.api from
> 'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\api\__init__.pyc'>
>>>> m.api.config
> <module 'project.api.config'
> from'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.config\project\api\config\__init__.pyc'>
>
> Please note that the m and m.api pointed to first installing package with
> namespace project.api but m.api.config have pointed to the proper file.
>
> And releasing code with several distributions it is one of goals of
> Distribute. And you might look to pypi for... zope. There is lot of  
> package
> which names starts from "zope."
> It's really convenient

Those are called namespace packages. Zope and Plone (ab)use them
extensively. The intended usage is to break up a big, monolithic package
[0] in parts that can be distributed independently. To implement a
namespace package, you need an empty __init__.py file with only these
lines [1]:

   from pkgutil import extend_path
__path__ = extend_path(__path__, __name__)

But think carefully if you really need namespace packages; they solve a
specific problem, aren't a general purpose technique. See [2] for a
discussion.

[0] Think of a huge behemoth with a "Z O P E" sign on both sides :)
[1] http://docs.python.org/library/pkgutil.html
[2] http://weblion.psu.edu/news/are-we-overusing-namespace-packages

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From db3l.net at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 14:25:09 2010
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:25:09 -0500
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>

T <misceverything at gmail.com> writes:

> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
> an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
> service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
> would be the best way around this?  Thanks!

The LocalSystem account is not, if I recall correctly, permitted to
access the network.

You'll have to install the service to run under some other account that
has appropriate access to the network.

-- David


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 14:28:53 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:28:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 8 f?v, 11:57, Klaus Neuner <klausneune... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
>
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
> ? ? xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
> ? ? abc(file)
>
> ...
>
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
>
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
>
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?


and with eval(), did you try ?

import sys

def functext():
    print "texte"

def funcdoc():
    print "doc"

def funcabc():
    print "abc"


if __name__ == "__main__":
    #replace filename with suitable value
    filename = sys.argv[1].split('.')[1]
    try:
        eval('func' + filename + '()')
    except:
        print 'error'



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  8 14:47:40 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:47:40 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B706A5C.2080506@islandtraining.com>

OdarR wrote:
> On 8 f?v, 11:57, Klaus Neuner <klausneune... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
>> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
>> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
>>
>> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>>     xyz(file)
>> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>>     abc(file)
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
>>
>> func = file[-3:]
>> apply_func(func, file)
>>
>> Can something of this kind be done in Python?
>>     

I may have missed a bit of this thread -- so I have to ask:  Has anyone 
mentioned using getattr yet?  It's a way of looking up *any* attribute 
using a string to specify the name.  Like this for your particular example:

class Functions:  # This could be a module instead of a class
  def xyz(...):
      ...
  def abc(...):
      ...
  ... and so on ...


ext = os.path.splitext(file) # Parses out the extension
fn = getattr(Functions, ext) # Lookup the correct function
fn(...) # and call it

Gary Herron




From gnewsg at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:04:12 2010
From: gnewsg at gmail.com (Giampaolo Rodola')
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:04:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: setuptools/distutil and pywin32
Message-ID: <04946f8f-46c0-4e90-b0cb-26a44e6c0323@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I have a program which requires pywin32 as a dependancy and I'd like
to make setuptools automatically retrieve it from internet and install
it.
My setup.py script looks like this:


from setuptools import setup

     setup(
          ...
          ...
          install_requires = ['pywin32']
          ...
     )

When I run setup.py install I get this error:


Processing dependencies for psutil==0.1.3
Searching for pywin32
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pywin32/
Reading http://sf.net/projects/pywin32
Reading http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=78018
Best match: pywin32 214
Downloading http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/files/pywin32/Build%20214/pywin32-214.win32-py2.6.exe
download
Processing download
error: Not a recognized archive type: c:\users\giampa~1\appdata\local
\temp\easy_
install-xefzrd\download


I've googled a lot about this but it seems that as of right now it's
just not possible to install pywin32 via setuptools but it seems
pretty strange to me as it is a very important third party module.

Can someone confirm to me that there's no way to solve this problem?


Thanks in advance,

----

Giampaolo
http://code.google.com/p/psutil
http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:06:26 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:06:26 -0500
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <hkpgbg$bab$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkpgbg$bab$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002081206v27165106v31da1cf19192a4c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:07 PM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100, mk wrote:
>>
>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/
>>
>> choose_python.pdf
>>>>
>>> Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored.
>>> Oh well..
>>
>> With an attitude like that, you're damn lucky if you don't get kill-
>> filed. It was SIX MINUTES since you posted your question about timers,
>> what did you expect?
>
> I didn't expect immediate answer to this particular question. I have
> repeatedly asked many questions about threads in the past, and IIRC every
> one of them was ignored.
>
>>
>> Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might never
>> get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after six DAYS
>> might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but after six
>> minutes?
>
> Well, it's 4 days now. I would be happy to get 50% response rate. Apparently
> nobody is really using threads.
>
> regards,
> mk

I use threads.

Geremy Condra


From pwashington85 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:16:24 2010
From: pwashington85 at gmail.com (spike)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:16:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Does anyone have a Python Logic Map/Flow Chart? (Example Provided)
Message-ID: <05a9edbc-63e9-4155-833c-15cf5dacd7ea@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or flow chart?

An example can be seen here on the right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

This would be very helpful for users.


From pwashington85 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:20:15 2010
From: pwashington85 at gmail.com (spike)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:20:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
Message-ID: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
flow chart?

An example can be seen on the right under History:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History

This would be very helpful for all users.


From invalid at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:36:43 2010
From: invalid at gmail.com (Dave Peterson)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:36:43 -0800
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer -
	non-working examples
Message-ID: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Page 7: Very first example doesn't compile: syntax error
Pate 11: 2nd example: syntax error
Page 12, printing digits: syntax error
Page 13, printing a number: syntax error
page 14, statements: syntax error







From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Feb  8 15:45:05 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:45:05 -0500
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer - 
	non-working examples
In-Reply-To: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002081245n642e7f77yaa469b1978134745@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Dave Peterson <invalid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Page 7: Very first example doesn't compile: syntax error
> Pate 11: 2nd example: syntax error
> Page 12, printing digits: syntax error
> Page 13, printing a number: syntax error
> page 14, statements: syntax error
>

Let me guess, you're using Python 3.1. That book was written for
Python 2.x and there were several backwards-incompatible changes. For
instance, print was changed from a statement to a function. Which is
why the "Hello, World" doesn't work any more. If you want to use the
older books, use Python 2.6 instead.

>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:52:20 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:52:20 -0600
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer -
	non-working examples
In-Reply-To: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hkpti3$ubo$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-08 14:36 PM, Dave Peterson wrote:
> Page 7: Very first example doesn't compile: syntax error
> Pate 11: 2nd example: syntax error
> Page 12, printing digits: syntax error
> Page 13, printing a number: syntax error
> page 14, statements: syntax error

This book was written for the 2.x versions of Python. Are you using Python 3.1? 
Python changed some of its syntax for version 3.0, notably

   print "Hello, world!"

becomes

   print("Hello, world!")

This accounts for all of the SyntaxErrors that you are seeing. The examples 
aren't broken for the version of Python it is teaching.

You may want to try _Dive Into Python 3_ to learn about Python 3 in particular:

   http://diveintopython3.org/

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:53:00 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:53:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer - 
	non-working examples
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <cadd33b2-59c3-4078-869b-5895a17ca492@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

The book covers Python 2.x syntax.

You might have downloaded Python 3.1, which has different syntax then
Python 2.x. From what I can tell, the first example on page 7 is ">>>
print 1 + 1".

Try issuing this command:
print(1 + 1)

If everything goes well, and you get '2' as the answer, then you're
probably using Python 3.x. You will have to download the Python 2.x
binaries from the Python website, install Python 2.x, and try the
example from the book again.


From vim at aryehleib.com  Mon Feb  8 15:54:15 2010
From: vim at aryehleib.com (Aryeh Leib Taurog)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:54:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: glibc detected double free or corruption
Message-ID: <2e4cd5eb-decf-43a9-8d2e-8d3b99134d50@19g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

I'm encountering the following error on my fastcgi web server and
would
greatly appreciate ANY pointers for debugging/fixing this problem.

*** glibc detected *** /usr/bin/python2.5: double free or corruption
(fasttop): 0x08b47d60 ***

If I don't set MALLOC_CHECK_ then the server just hangs and the above
message appears in the fastcgi error log.  With MALLOC_CHECK_=0 I get
an
error message in the browser instead.

I'm using the following components (on a shared hosting account):

Debian lenny 64 bit
Python 2.5.2
lighttpd 1.4.19
Django 1.1.1
latest flup (today's hg tip, flup-server-ae5fe54fba18)
postgresql 8.3.9
psycopg2 2.0.13

What's interesting about the problem is it seems to happen only when
new
fcgi processes are spawned and only when a db query is made.  That is,
the
frequency of the problem corresponds exactly with the maxrequests
setting
on my fcgi process.  If I set maxrequests to 1 then I get this error
for
each request that hits the database.  If I set it to 3 then I get the
error
with every third request, if that request hits the database.

If I put Django into DEBUG and set MALLOC_CHECK_=0 then I get the
following
error with traceback:

Exception Type:  OperationalError
Exception Value: server closed the connection unexpectedly
                 This probably means the server terminated abnormally
                 before or while processing the request.

Exception Location:	/home/altaurog/django/db/backends/util.py in
execute, line 19

Regardless of which url/view I request, the exception always is raised
on a
sql execute statement.

---
Aryeh Leib Taurog



From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Mon Feb  8 15:59:18 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:59:18 +0100
Subject: Ternary plus
Message-ID: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>

Just for the hell of it ...

I can easily define __plus__() with three parameters. If the last one is
optional the + operation works as expected. Is there a way to pass the
third argument to "+"


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Feb  8 16:13:33 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:13:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simulating logging.exception with another traceback
References: <0c13d3f7-addf-4972-91c3-6f41fadfb2b5@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3512c1a4-01e3-449d-8e48-e673e668bb17@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 11:22?am, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would want to get the output from `logging.exception` but with
> traceback from the caller function (I've already all that
> information).
>
> This would be the error withlogging.exception:
> --------------------
> ERROR:
> ? PipeError('/bin/ls -l | ?', 'no command after of pipe')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
> 160, in __call__
> ? ? raise PipeError(command, 'no command after of pipe')
> PipeError: ('/bin/ls -l | ?', 'no command after of pipe')
> --------------------
>
> And I've trying it with:
> --------------------
> message = "File \"{0}\", line {1}, in {2}\n\n ?{3}".format(
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? file, line, function, caller)logging.error(message)
>
> ERROR:
> ? File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
> ? 163, in __call__ ? ?return self.throw(PipeError, command, 'no
> ? command after of pipe')
> --------------------
>
> Could be used `logging.LogRecord` [1] to get it? How?
>
> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#logging.LogRecord

Sorry, Joan,

I don't understand your question. Can you create a short script which
throws an exception, and show exactly how you want it formatted?

The logger.exception method does the same as logger.error, except that
it prints exception trace information and is intended to be called
from exception handling clauses. You can format exceptions how you
like by subclassing Formatter and overriding formatException.

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From dmalcolm at redhat.com  Mon Feb  8 16:14:08 2010
From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:14:08 -0500
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer - 
	non-working examples
In-Reply-To: <cadd33b2-59c3-4078-869b-5895a17ca492@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<cadd33b2-59c3-4078-869b-5895a17ca492@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1265663648.25625.233.camel@brick>

On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 12:53 -0800, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> The book covers Python 2.x syntax.
> 
> You might have downloaded Python 3.1, which has different syntax then
> Python 2.x. From what I can tell, the first example on page 7 is ">>>
> print 1 + 1".
> 
> Try issuing this command:
> print(1 + 1)
> 
> If everything goes well, and you get '2' as the answer, then you're
> probably using Python 3.x. You will have to download the Python 2.x
> binaries from the Python website, install Python 2.x, and try the
> example from the book again.

Sorry to nitpick; the main thrust of the above sounds correct, in that:
    print 1 + 1
works in Python 2 but fails in Python 3, but, a minor correction, note
that:
    print(1+1)
does work in Python 2 as well as in Python 3; the parentheses are
treated (in the former) as denoting grouping of a subexpression, rather
than function invocation (in the latter):

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jan 25 2010, 13:22:47) 
[GCC 4.4.2 20100121 (Red Hat 4.4.2-28)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print(1+1)
2

This can be useful if you're trying to write short fragments of code
that work with both.

Look at the startup message, or run this command, which should work on
both python2 and python3:
  import sys; print(sys.version)

Hope this is helpful
Dave



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:27:00 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:27:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer - 
	non-working examples
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<cadd33b2-59c3-4078-869b-5895a17ca492@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2177.1265663629.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ed94e364-b096-40c2-ac02-e42ec5568bb6@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 10:14?pm, David Malcolm <dmalc... at redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 12:53 -0800, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> > The book covers Python 2.x syntax.
>
> > You might have downloaded Python 3.1, which has different syntax then
> > Python 2.x. From what I can tell, the first example on page 7 is ">>>
> > print 1 + 1".
>
> > Try issuing this command:
> > print(1 + 1)
>
> > If everything goes well, and you get '2' as the answer, then you're
> > probably using Python 3.x. You will have to download the Python 2.x
> > binaries from the Python website, install Python 2.x, and try the
> > example from the book again.
>
> Sorry to nitpick; the main thrust of the above sounds correct, in that:
> ? ? print 1 + 1
> works in Python 2 but fails in Python 3, but, a minor correction, note
> that:
> ? ? print(1+1)
> does work in Python 2 as well as in Python 3; the parentheses are
> treated (in the former) as denoting grouping of a subexpression, rather
> than function invocation (in the latter):
>
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jan 25 2010, 13:22:47)
> [GCC 4.4.2 20100121 (Red Hat 4.4.2-28)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> print(1+1)
>
> 2
>
> This can be useful if you're trying to write short fragments of code
> that work with both.
>
> Look at the startup message, or run this command, which should work on
> both python2 and python3:
> ? import sys; print(sys.version)
>
> Hope this is helpful
> Dave

Oops, you're right. I'm used to Python 3 syntax so I'm only aware of
some basic differences. :)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 16:28:03 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 13:28:03 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
OdarR  <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>and with eval(), did you try ?

WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:28:54 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:28:54 -0600
Subject: Ternary plus
In-Reply-To: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <hkpvml$6ho$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-08 14:59 PM, Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> Just for the hell of it ...
>
> I can easily define __plus__() with three parameters. If the last one is
> optional the + operation works as expected. Is there a way to pass the
> third argument to "+"

No.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  8 16:35:10 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:35:10 -0800
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B70838E.4070700@islandtraining.com>

spike wrote:
> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
> flow chart?
>
> An example can be seen on the right under History:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>
> This would be very helpful for all users.
>   

Huh???  What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out? 

Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?

Gary Herron



From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:39:33 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 8 f?v, 22:28, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> OdarR ?<olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >and with eval(), did you try ?
>
> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question

warning : it works !
another question ?


> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> import antigravity



From andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:39:42 2010
From: andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com (Andrew Degtiariov)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:39:42 +0200
Subject: Import question
In-Reply-To: <op.u7tpdpz4x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
References: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
	<5d1b76f61002080137o6e3f9a1fjdab8bcf8d3959faf@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7tpdpz4x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <5d1b76f61002081339u5648906bp282e5e7bddde1760@mail.gmail.com>

Those are called namespace packages. Zope and Plone (ab)use them

> extensively. The intended usage is to break up a big, monolithic package
> [0] in parts that can be distributed independently. To implement a
> namespace package, you need an empty __init__.py file with only these
> lines [1]:
>
>  from pkgutil import extend_path
> __path__ = extend_path(__path__, __name__)
>
> But think carefully if you really need namespace packages; they solve a
> specific problem, aren't a general purpose technique. See [2] for a
> discussion.
>
> [0] Think of a huge behemoth with a "Z O P E" sign on both sides :)
> [1] http://docs.python.org/library/pkgutil.html
> [2] http://weblion.psu.edu/news/are-we-overusing-namespace-packages
>
>
Hm.. We are using pkg_resources.declare_namespace(__name__) but I think
pkgutil is much better.
And we are using buildout so the omelette might help me. Link [2] very
interesting.
Thank you, Gabrial.

-- 
Andrew Degtiariov
DA-RIPE
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From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb  8 16:40:33 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:40:33 +1300
Subject: The Case For Do-Once
References: <hkoje5$4nf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <hkq0ci$v4s$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <hkoje5$4nf$1 at lust.ihug.co.nz>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> The basic control flow is this:
>     * Unconditionally initialize all dynamic storage to nil
>     * Do the main body of the code, aborting in any error
>     * Regardless of success or failure of the above, dispose of all
>       allocated dynamic storage, using disposal calls which turn into
>       noops if passed pointers that are already nil.

For more examples, see the spuhelper.c module here 
<http://github.com/ldo/dvd_menu_animator>.


From davodavo2 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:47:52 2010
From: davodavo2 at gmail.com (Davo)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:47:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Read PGM's with more than 256 range in PIL1.1.7
Message-ID: <24a311e0-963e-43a5-9d8f-3a573dbf5fe2@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have a PGM format image file with 4096 range.  When I reads it with
PIL, I get an image with 8-bit values and alternate columns are zero.
Does PIL support reading and writing PGM's with more than 8-bits?

Davo


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Feb  8 17:31:48 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:31:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Stephen -- Bruce?
References: <hkfkbg$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2a932e46-1b81-4a97-bbee-3bf92b3b1447@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd308$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <54742c54-bf2d-4228-ad7c-d1dca1858775@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 3:02?am, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Mensanator, 05.02.2010 00:36:
>
> > On Feb 4, 5:13 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> >> What's this about all the Stephen'ses here?
>
> >> Shouldn't it be Bruce?
>
> > Of course. We just call everyone Stephen to avoid confusion.
>
> Some people even manage to adapt the spellings accordingly.
>
> Stefan

You appear to be confused.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 17:36:47 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 14:36:47 -0800
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkq3lv$7k2$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Sean DiZazzo  <half.italian at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 3, 6:08=A0pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
>Why did Path() get rejected?  Is it the idea itself, or just the
>approach that was used?  What are the complaints?

You should search for the discussiona around it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 17:43:46 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 14:43:46 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637 at f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
OdarR  <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 8 f=E9v, 22:28, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups=
>.com>,
>> OdarR =A0<olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>and with eval(), did you try ?
>>
>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>
>warning : it works !

Works for what?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 17:46:36 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:46:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkq3lv$7k2$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9a2b87ca-abd4-4d5d-9fca-9ebee8a44730@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 2:36?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> >> There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:
> >>http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
> >Why did Path() get rejected? ?Is it the idea itself, or just the
> >approach that was used? ?What are the complaints?
>
> You should search for the discussiona around it.

I, OTOH, am burning rubber with Python 2.6.1, so leading edge concerns
are not mine - yet!

I went with this version, generously ripped out & plopped into our
project:

# URL:     http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path
# Author:  Jason Orendorff <jason at jorendorff.com> (and others - see
the url!)
# Date:    7 Mar 2004

class path(_base):
    """ Represents a filesystem path.
    """

Gods bless http://www.google.com/codesearch, huh?!

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  8 17:50:02 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:50:02 +0000
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <f3cc57c61002081206v27165106v31da1cf19192a4c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkpgbg$bab$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<f3cc57c61002081206v27165106v31da1cf19192a4c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B70951A.90805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

geremy condra wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:07 PM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100, mk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/
>>> choose_python.pdf
>>>> Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored.
>>>> Oh well..
>>> With an attitude like that, you're damn lucky if you don't get kill-
>>> filed. It was SIX MINUTES since you posted your question about timers,
>>> what did you expect?
>> I didn't expect immediate answer to this particular question. I have
>> repeatedly asked many questions about threads in the past, and IIRC every
>> one of them was ignored.
>>
>>> Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might never
>>> get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after six DAYS
>>> might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but after six
>>> minutes?
>> Well, it's 4 days now. I would be happy to get 50% response rate. Apparently
>> nobody is really using threads.
>>
>> regards,
>> mk
> 
> I use threads.
> 
So do I, where appropriate.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 17:50:21 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 14:50:21 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkq4fd$qhv$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b at o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Julian  <mailings at julianmoritz.de> wrote:
>
>I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
>usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
>some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
>use python?".

Readability
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 18:24:01 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 15:24:01 -0800
Subject: Building a multiline string
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkq6eh$8fq$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306 at l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
lallous  <lallous at lgwm.org> wrote:
>
>x = (
>"line1" # can use comments
>"line2"
>"line3"
>)

You should indent the second and following lines (I changed the name to
"xyz" to make clear that the following lines use a regular Python indent
rather than lining up under the open paren):

xyz = (
    "line1" # can use comments
    "line2"
    "line3"
    )
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 18:46:47 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 23:46:47 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
Message-ID: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a

obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption 
algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.

obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
 - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
 - atbash
 - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
 - Railfence (encryption only)
 - Keyword
 - Affine
 - Vigenere
 - frob (xor)

and others.

DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be 
used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate 
may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used 
where strong encryption is required.

obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.

Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 19:26:18 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 7:10?pm, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 6:08?pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 4, 8:47?am, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yes, calling os.path.walk() and os.path.join() all the time on raw
> > > strings is fun, but I seem to recall from my Ruby days a class called
> > > Pathname, which presented an object that behaved like a string at
> > > need, and like a filesystem path at need. path + 'folder' would
> > > call .join() and insert the / correctly, for example.
>
> > > What's the best equivalent in Python-land?
>
> > It's no longer supported, but the 3rd party 'path' module used to be
> > the go-to module for this:
>
> > >>> from path import path
>
> > C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\path.py:32: DeprecationWarning: the md5
> > module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
> > ? import sys, warnings, os, fnmatch, glob, shutil, codecs, md5>>> c = path('C:\\')
> > >>> c.listdir()
>
> > [path(u'C:\\AUTOEXEC.BAT'), path(u'C:\\boot.ini'), ...]>>> (c + 'python26').listdir()
>
> > [path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
> > \python26\\DLLs'), ...]>>> (c / 'python26').listdir()
>
> > [path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
> > \python26\\DLLs'), ...]
>
> > I've hand edited the results for brevity...
>
> > The module could do with some TLC to bring it up to date, but warning
> > aside it still seems to work fine under 2.6.
>
> > (From memory, I think the original author gave up when it became clear
> > it would never be integrated into the standard lib[1], which is a
> > shame, I think there's scope for a pathtools addition to the lib that
> > provides this level of convenience...)
>
> > There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
> > Hope this helps.
>
> It's too bad that something like this can't be agreed to. ?I used a
> homegrown module like this for a couple of years in my early days with
> python. ?It was great, but I didn't know enough at the time to make it
> really useful.
>
> Why did Path() get rejected? ?Is it the idea itself, or just the
> approach that was used? ?What are the complaints?

I don't know if it was the reason it was rejected, but a seriously
divisive question is whether the path should be a subset of string.

Under ordinary circumstances it would be a poor choice for inheritance
(only a few string methods would be useful fot a pathname), but some
people were fiercely adamant that paths should be passable to open()
as-in (without having to explicity convert to string).  IIRC, the guy
who maintained path wavered between subclassing and not subclassing
str.  I don't remember if the idea of modifying open to accept path
objects came up.


Carl Banks


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Feb  8 19:29:01 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:29:01 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B70AC4D.6040008@cheimes.de>

Steven D'Aprano schrieb:
> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
> 
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
> 
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption 
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
> 
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>  - atbash
>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>  - Keyword
>  - Affine
>  - Vigenere
>  - frob (xor)

Nice work!

Your work should be interesting for everybody who has read Simon Sing's
"The Code Book: The Science of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum".

Christian


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 19:37:52 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:37:52 -0500
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002081637j3d091de6ne158bbb6aa8c173f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
>
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
>
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
> ?- Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
> ?- atbash
> ?- Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
> ?- Railfence (encryption only)
> ?- Keyword
> ?- Affine
> ?- Vigenere
> ?- frob (xor)
>
> and others.
>
> DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
> used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
> may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used
> where strong encryption is required.
>
> obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.
>
> Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.
>
>
> --
> Steven D'Aprano
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Nice! Maybe someday you can extend it with a pen-and-paper
signature scheme ;)

Geremy Condra


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 19:44:35 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:44:35 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to the
>> point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
> 
> Must. Resist. Ad hominem.
> 
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>
>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-)
> 
> 10 words _plus_ an understanding of Java.

No, one only needs an understanding of "pointer".

"Pointer" is a mostly language independent concept.

The reference to the Java language spec, where that term is used for this, was 
just an unsuccessful attempt to keep out word-play arguments based on the 
incompatibility of some incompatible meaning of "pointer"...


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 20:08:00 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:08:00 -0500
Subject: Read PGM's with more than 256 range in PIL1.1.7
In-Reply-To: <24a311e0-963e-43a5-9d8f-3a573dbf5fe2@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <24a311e0-963e-43a5-9d8f-3a573dbf5fe2@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002081708w362fc0ccr26019221660ac5e3@mail.gmail.com>

According the pil manual it handles PGM files with "'1', 'L', or 'RGB' data"
which leads me to believe 16bit data is not supported.

You CAN write your own decoder for that though:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/pil/handbook/decoder.htm

It would be trivial to write a decoder for the pgm format.


On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Davo <davodavo2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a PGM format image file with 4096 range.  When I reads it with
> PIL, I get an image with 8-bit values and alternate columns are zero.
> Does PIL support reading and writing PGM's with more than 8-bits?
>
> Davo
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 20:31:35 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 01:31:35 GMT
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2170.1265648842.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.01.31.36@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:07:56 +0100, mk wrote:

>> Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might
>> never get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after
>> six DAYS might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but
>> after six minutes?
> 
> Well, it's 4 days now. I would be happy to get 50% response rate.
> Apparently nobody is really using threads.

Please see my response to your post "timer for a function".

-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 20:36:48 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 01:36:48 GMT
Subject: timer for a function
References: <mailman.1986.1265390557.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.01.36.49@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:23:09 +0100, mk wrote:

[...]
> On paramiko mailing list I got the suggestion to build a timer and then
> quit this by myself:
> 
>> The timeout option in connect() is for the socket, not for the entire
>> operation. You are connected, so that timeout is no longer relevant.
>> You would probably have to wrap the transport.connect() method in a
>> timer to break out of this early.
> 
> Question: how can I do that? Use another threaded class? Is there some
> other way?

I don't use threads enough (or at all) to answer that question directly, 
but I can point you at these. Hopefully they will help, or at least give 
you some ideas:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/534115/
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/473878/

Found by googling for "python timeout any function".



> Additional snag is SSHClient() is a class that internally uses threads.
> How do I kill brutally its threads? Is there any way to do it?

You can't kill threads in Python. You have to ask them nicely to die.

Google on "python kill thread" for more.




-- 
Steven


From aonlazio at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 20:39:58 2010
From: aonlazio at gmail.com (AON LAZIO)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:39:58 -0500
Subject: Programing family
Message-ID: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>

I have thought funny things
If we think all languages are like a family
I could draft them like this (Python base)

C is Python's Mom
C++ : Dad
Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents
C#   : Uncle
Java : Ant
Ruby: Cousin
Perl : Girlfriend


What u guys think? XD
-- 
Passion is my style
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 20:49:39 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 01:49:39 GMT
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.01.49.40@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:59:18 +0100, Martin Drautzburg wrote:

> Just for the hell of it ...
> 
> I can easily define __plus__() with three parameters. If the last one is
> optional the + operation works as expected. Is there a way to pass the
> third argument to "+"

How do you give three operands to a binary operator? Binary operators 
only have two sides, a left and a right, so you can only fit two operands 
around them.

Mathematicians solve this problem by using functions:

add(a, b, c, d)

In Python, you can do this:

>>> class F:
...     def __add__(self, other, foo=None):
...             print self, other, foo
...             return 1
...
>>>
>>> F() + 3
<__main__.F instance at 0xb7f06f4c> 3 None
1
>>> F().__add__(3, 4)
<__main__.F instance at 0xb7f06d8c> 3 4
1



but if you do, people will laugh and point at you in the street.

*wink*


-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb  8 20:50:13 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:50:13 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B70BF55.90704@sequans.com>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> OdarR  <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> and with eval(), did you try ?
>>     
>
> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>   
Some say that eval is evil !

JM


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 20:51:01 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 01:51:01 GMT
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:43:46 -0800, Aahz wrote:

>>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>>
>>warning : it works !
> 
> Works for what?

Code injection security bugs, of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_injection

It is surprisingly difficult to sanitize strings in Python to make them 
safe to pass to eval. Unless you are prepared to trust the input data 
explicitly, it's best to just avoid eval.



-- 
Steven


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 20:55:44 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:55:44 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> No, one only needs an understanding of "pointer".
>
> "Pointer" is a mostly language independent concept.
>
> The reference to the Java language spec, where that term is used for this,
> was just an unsuccessful attempt to keep out word-play arguments based on
> the incompatibility of some incompatible meaning of "pointer"...
>

The fact is, "pointer" is not really a language independent concept. Just
because a concept is used in multiple languages doesn't make it a general
purpose term that has a clear meaning that's defined in a well-understood
way. The last time I paid attention to one of your semantic arguments was
when you were talking about "routine", where that -was- a language
independent concept, but as wholly inappropriate to use in context of Python
as pass-by-value (especially due to ambiguity). You seem to have an idea of
a word in your head and a meaning and context, and are ignoring the fact
that there's a huge body of knowledge that places another context or meaning
on that word or phrase. Thus, the usage of that phrase actually -confuses-
and does not -clarify-.

The terms "call by reference" and "call by value" have *meaning* beyond the
purely abstract: they have meaning to semantics that people expect when you
use them, meaning to how the language works, and those meanings do *not*
apply to Python.

Python doesn't have pointers. That you can do id() and see something like a
memory address is a CPython implementation detail which is not guaranteed
and the fact that Python is implemented -in- a language which -does- have
pointers, and that implementation uses pointers beneath the Python level.
But the Python language (and CPython implementation) does -not- provide
pointers to us. We do not use pointers in any Python code we do.

To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort of
world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I have a
series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment where someone
comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The contents of these
boxes are mine alone!

To say, "pass by reference" implies other things to people. It describes a
sort of world where my desk doesn't have any boxes, really. It's got some
places for boxes, but when someone gives me something? They give me their
boxes too. The actual -stuff- in them I can swap between the two boxes if I
want, and when I give those boxes back to the one who called me? They'll be
swapped. That's a sort of defining characteristic of pass-by-reference
environments.

_Neither_ of these are accurate descriptions of Python's universe. You can
say, "its pass by value, just be specific that the value is..." but at that
point the statement is meaningless. You've taken a relatively
well-understood statement with certain meaning and a semantic weight behind
what it means, and just totally made it into something else entirely. By
changing the entire meaning of "value", from the value of the variable which
is copied, to the value of the memory address, you've changed -everything-
that 'pass by value' means. So you should use a different word.

Like, "objects" (or "sharing" is also used.)

Python has names, and objects. The guy over there has things on his desk,
with a label attached to it that has a name. He tosses it over to me, and I
get the same object he did-- no boxes. I put my own label on it, even though
he keeps hold of his label. I fiddle with it, and might toss it back. Or
might not, maybe I'll toss something else back. Either way, he still has it.

In Python, we get objects. Real objects. The original one. Its not a
pointer, its an object, that happens to have a label attached to it. It
doesn't have any idea what that label is, and it can't even find out. Its
not in any boxes owned by any functions, its just floating out there with
everything else, with lots of labels tied to it. Its just that when the last
one is cut, nothing else is holding it up, and it falls to the ground and
gets swept away.

That python is pass-by-objects is -really- important for people to
understand to really "get" python, and using other terms is /bad/ because it
makes them think of the semantics those terms imply. Because if you don't
-remember- and just instinctively -know- that Python is "pass-by-objects",
you'll forget the difference between passing an immutable and a mutable
object into a function, and be surprised by the result.

>>> import copy
>>> def doit(a):
...     a += a
...     return a
...
>>> test1 = 1
>>> test2 = doit(test1)
>>> test1
1
>>> test2
2
>>> test3 = [1]
>>> test4 = doit(test3)
>>> test3
[1, 1]
>>> test4
[1, 1]

I know you already know this, but the point is: you're -hurting- other
peoples understanding by using terms like this that don't apply to Python's
specific nature.

In Python, every function gets the original objects that you pass into it.
Some are immutable, some are mutable. With immutable ones, it might very
well seem like its pass-by-value and behaves like pass-by-value semantics,
but when you get mutable objects, that changes /quickly/. Changing "value"
to mean, "the memory address where the object is stored" just obfuscates the
entire point and doesn't actually explain what people need to understand in
this question.

--S
P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:03:32 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:03:32 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081803n858a715wc9baace9f6210c04@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steven at remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:43:46 -0800, Aahz wrote:
>
> >>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
> >>
> >>warning : it works !
> >
> > Works for what?
>
> Code injection security bugs, of course.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_injection
>
> It is surprisingly difficult to sanitize strings in Python to make them
> safe to pass to eval. Unless you are prepared to trust the input data
> explicitly, it's best to just avoid eval.
>

I'd make it a bit stronger: unless you are prepared to trust the input data
explicitly, and forever-- and extending that trust to whomever might in the
future be hired to work along, beside, under, or instead of you-- including
the fact that they may use your system or code in a different or new way to
get the data-- or how you may in the future decide to grow your system in
ways you're not today prepared for and are committed to do a complete review
of your entire codebase on every such change to ensure you don't leak some
potentially bad data down into such a place-- then you can use eval.
Otherwise, other solutions are better.

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:16:04 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:16:04 -0800
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <hkhd7t$opq$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkhd7t$opq$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081816r3b7a7c4fq5b079424dbd1f46e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:25 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a problem with a threaded program: it frequently hangs on sys.exit.
>

I use threads all the time (well, for certain types of workloads) and have
never seen this.

Are your threads daemon threads? The only time I've seen sys.exit() not
close out my program is when I'm launching non-daemon threads on accident.

Now, I do get some slightly random errors on close due to threads doing
stuff or returning from doing stuff while the shutdown procedure is going
on, but I don't really care, cuz, well, I'm shutting everything down and
nothing worth knowing is going on in the rest of the program.

--S
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Feb  8 21:19:57 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:19:57 -0600
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B70C64D.3020908@tim.thechases.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption 
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
> 
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>  - atbash
>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>  - Keyword
>  - Affine
>  - Vigenere
>  - frob (xor)

I prefer the strength of Triple ROT-13 for my obfuscation needs, 
but I don't see it listed here.  I guess I'll have to roll my own 
despite the dire warnings against amateur cryptographers 
authoring their own unvetted implementations.  ;-)

-tkc





From sccolbert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:29:50 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:29:50 -0500
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <4B70C64D.3020908@tim.thechases.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B70C64D.3020908@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002081829i2333f8b3y791485074e35b4ca@mail.gmail.com>

I always though a double rot13 followed by a rot26 was the best?

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
>> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>>
>> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>>  - atbash
>>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>>  - Keyword
>>  - Affine
>>  - Vigenere
>>  - frob (xor)
>>
>
> I prefer the strength of Triple ROT-13 for my obfuscation needs, but I
> don't see it listed here.  I guess I'll have to roll my own despite the dire
> warnings against amateur cryptographers authoring their own unvetted
> implementations.  ;-)
>
> -tkc
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 21:42:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:42:53 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
[...]
> P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
> 

And here I was, sitting on my hands ... but someone was wrong on the
Internet, so D'Aprano had to put them right. Your fatal weakness.

Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
word,' said Humpty ..."

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:44:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:44:17 -0800
Subject: timer for a function
In-Reply-To: <hkhk45$jvp$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkhk45$jvp$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081844h5a280e94k794ddc5d0df77610@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:23 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> On paramiko mailing list I got the suggestion to build a timer and then
> quit this by myself:
>
>  The timeout option in connect() is for the socket, not for the entire
>> operation. You are connected, so that timeout is no longer relevant.
>> You would probably have to wrap the transport.connect() method in a
>> timer to break out of this early.
>>
>
> Question: how can I do that? Use another threaded class? Is there some
> other way?
>

What OS? Does this have to be OS-independant? Are you using more then one
transport/SSLClient in your process and you want to just kill one (and any
of its child threads), or are you doing one per process?

If you want to terminate -all- threads your process is running in a given
timeframe, using a SIGALRM in the signal module will do it, I believe--
provided you don't need to support windows. I had a contextlib manager do
that for awhile. If you only want to terminate one (and its
child-threads)... you're out of luck, I think. The only way to terminate a
thread in Python is with conditions/events/whatever and the thread
cooperating and exiting on its own.

--S
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:46:05 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:46:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 12:59?pm, Martin Drautzburg <Martin.Drautzb... at web.de>
wrote:
> Just for the hell of it ...
>
> I can easily define __plus__() with three parameters. If the last one is
> optional the + operation works as expected. Is there a way to pass the
> third argument to "+"

If, for some reason, you wanted to define a type for which it makes
sense to "add" three objects, but not two, you can get the effect you
want, kind of.

(a + b + c) is useful
(a + b) is meaningless

You can have __add__ return a closure for the first addition, then
perform the operation on the second one.  Example (untested):

class Closure(object):
    def __init__(self,t1,t2):
        self.t1 = t1
        self.t2 = t2
    def __add__(self,t3):
        # whole operation peformed here
        return self.t1 + self.t2 + t3

class MySpecialInt(int):
    def __add__(self,other):
        return Closure(self,other)


I wouldn't recommend it.  Just use a function call with three
arguments.


Carl Banks


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:48:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:48:02 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Stephen Hansen wrote:
> [...]
> > P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
> >
>
> And here I was, sitting on my hands ... but someone was wrong on the
> Internet, so D'Aprano had to put them right. Your fatal weakness.
>
> Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
> word,' said Humpty ..."
>

This is getting out of hand.

First, someone thought I was you.

Now you think I'm D'Aprano.

I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on.

:)

--B
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:55:17 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:55:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <49d5eb96-1a07-47a3-bc7b-e54ab963151d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 12:20?pm, spike <pwashingto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
> flow chart?
>
> An example can be seen on the right under History:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>
> This would be very helpful for all users.


Begin
  |
  |
  V
Start Editor
  |
  |
  V
Write Code <----+
  |             |
  |             |
  V             |
Run Python      |
  |             |
  |             | No.
  V             |
Did it do what you want?
  |
  | Yes.
  |
  V
Stop.


HTH.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:57:19 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0dc66912-76de-4979-b98d-8358436b8ee8@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 1:35?pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
> spike wrote:
> > Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
> > flow chart?
>
> > An example can be seen on the right under History:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>
> > This would be very helpful for all users.
>
> Huh??? ?What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>
> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?

Usenet servers.

Back in the day people had these in their .sigfiles


Carl Banks


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  8 22:07:55 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:07:55 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B70D18B.5040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com 
> <mailto:steve at holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Stephen Hansen wrote:
>     [...]
>      > P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
>      >
> 
>     And here I was, sitting on my hands ... but someone was wrong on the
>     Internet, so D'Aprano had to put them right. Your fatal weakness.
> 
>     Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
>     word,' said Humpty ..."
> 
> 
> This is getting out of hand.
> 
> First, someone thought I was you.
> 
> Now you think I'm D'Aprano.
> 
> I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on. 
> 
> :)
> 
> --B
> 
Bruce would be less confusing. :-)


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 22:17:48 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:17:48 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4B70D18B.5040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B70D18B.5040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081917m3e8f7afbw3f5b0d58edf6a509@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:07 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> This is getting out of hand.
>>
>> First, someone thought I was you.
>>
>> Now you think I'm D'Aprano.
>>
>> I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on.
>> :)
>>
>> --B
>>
>>  Bruce would be less confusing. :-)


I've heard that, and can't fathom the claim. I've only ever met a single
Bruce in my entire life, though I've seen a couple on the 'net. Maybe its
geographical, and Bruce's just don't like California? I dunno.

Stephen's though I'm used to being one of many; I was 'number 5' at the
office for quite awhile, since I worked directly for (and next to) a
Stephen, with another Stephen, and frequently at to ask two other Stephen's
for advice. So we all went by numbers.

Time to take up the habit on the internet!

Anyways. Ahem.

--Bob
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From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb  8 22:24:40 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:24:40 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied
Message-ID: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I'm using IDLE with winxp. It seems every day I get into the Subject 
above. Usually, after 5-8 minutes I get past it. A msg appearing at the 
same time say, "IDLE's subprocess didn't make connect. ... possible 
firewall problem."

A resource for this is <http://bugs.python.org/issue6941>. There a 
number of choices. Perhaps the most appealing is:

adgprogramming: first, bring up your task manager and make sure there
are no python processes running.  2.6.x subprocesses can get stuck.
Then make sure that your firewall isn't blocking socket access to
localhost.  Then restart IDLE.  IDLE 3.1.1 may work for you since it
has the recent enhancement that allows multiple copies of IDLE to run
simultaneously, but it still needs interprocess access via sockets.

How would I know the which Python processes or subprocesses are running? 
I can kill the main one, but that seems to do no good.
pythonw.exe.

Comments?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb  8 22:38:48 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:38:48 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied
In-Reply-To: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/8/2010 7:24 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> I'm using IDLE with winxp. It seems every day I get into the Subject
> above. Usually, after 5-8 minutes I get past it. A msg appearing at the
> same time say, "IDLE's subprocess didn't make connect. ... possible
> firewall problem."
>
> A resource for this is <http://bugs.python.org/issue6941>. There a
> number of choices. Perhaps the most appealing is:
>
> adgprogramming: first, bring up your task manager and make sure there
> are no python processes running. 2.6.x subprocesses can get stuck.
> Then make sure that your firewall isn't blocking socket access to
> localhost. Then restart IDLE. IDLE 3.1.1 may work for you since it
> has the recent enhancement that allows multiple copies of IDLE to run
> simultaneously, but it still needs interprocess access via sockets.
>
> How would I know the which Python processes or subprocesses are running?
> I can kill the main one, but that seems to do no good.
> pythonw.exe.
>
> Comments?
I'm using McAffee. I see it was pythonw.exe blocked in red. There are 
several choices: Allow Access, Allow Outboubnd only
Block (current), Remove Prgrm permission, Learn More.

Outbound only seem reasonable, but why does the blocking keep returning 
every many hours, or maybe when I reboot, which I've done several times 
today?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb  8 22:45:50 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:45:50 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied
In-Reply-To: <hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkqlpg$f2i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I decided to go with outbound. Now when I run the program, I get a long 
of messabge about deprecations and  NumpyTest will be removed in the 
next release. please update code to nose or unittest.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb  8 22:53:29 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:53:29 -0800
Subject: Tangling with mathplotlib(MPL)  on XP and Win7 -- show() stopper
Message-ID: <hkqm7p$hol$2@news.eternal-september.org>

I'm doing most of this on a win7 machine. When I installed MPL, I had 
two small dialogs appear that said something was missing, but I pressed 
on. MPL seemed to generally work except for the show() problem. When it 
was to be executed to show the output of plot(x,y), it did just that; 
however, the shell window hung, and I had to upper right corner x my way 
out of it--2 to 3 steps. The plot window and program easily went the 
same way. IDLE is the tool of choice on both machines.

I'm in the process of bringing programs from my XP to the win7 machine, 
and on the XP machine I decided to start using MPL with a 900 line Py 
program that I'm revising. I had gotten stuck with the very same problem 
there. However, last night I realized someone had added a MPL plot to it 
years ago, and it does not fail on show().  I've put print stmts after 
show() in the big program, but nothing is printed in either case when I 
close the plot window. Tried in IDLE and executing from clicking on the 
py file in its folder.

I brought some of this up on the MPL mailing list, and one respondent 
said he had tried some of the examples with show(), and they had worked.

I noticed the dialog msgs mentioned above, and thought I made a mistake 
in not installing numpy first, so tried to figure out a way to do it. 
Three posts on different forums did not provide an answer. I 
accidentally found the author of MPL's hidden away in one of MPL files. 
He said it didn't make a difference and asked me not to use his address. 
I though the warning msgs might be of interest to him, so wrote to him. 
He had blocked me. Perhaps I need to file a bug report to get his 
attention on that.



Anyway, I'm now stalled on the development of the big program. It's 
possible this is an IDLE problem, but I ran the big program with a click 
on the file, and the black window showed the same problem. This is all 
on XP Pro.

I'm going to copy the two code segments here. Maybe someone can see a 
difference.

=================OLD working code============
      def light_curve( self ):
          result = []
          test = 1
          for tup in self.subimages:
              left,top,subimage = tup
              total = 0
              avg_total = 0
              if (test == 1):
                  box = (left, top, left+128, top+128)
                  region = self.reference_image.crop(box)
                  self.reference_image.paste(subimage, box)
                  test = 2
              else:
                  for x in range(left+43,left+82):
                      for y in range(top+43, top+82):
                          avg_total = avg_total + 
self.reference_image.getpixel((x, y))
                  for x in range(43,82): #take the center 40 X 40 pixel 
block
                      for y in range(43,82):
                          v = subimage.getpixel((x, y))
                          total = total + v
                  #for x in range(left, left+127):
                  #    for y in range(top, top+127):
                  #        avg_total = avg_total + 
self.reference_image.getpixel((x, y))
                  #for x in range(0, 127):
                  #    for y in range(0, 127):
                  #        total = total + subimage.getpixel((x, y))
                  result.append(total - avg_total) #(average - 
background average) gives pixel intensity above the background)
          plotting_x = range(2, len(result)+2)
          plot(plotting_x, result)
          xlabel('Frame #')
          ylabel('Pixel count above background count')
          title('Light curve for selected subplot')
          show()

===========New Code with show problem
      def get_point_trail_stats(self): # Simple track statistics
          xy = array(self.xya)[:,0:2]  # creates a two column array for x,y
          pt2pt_dist = []
          pt_dist = []
          for k in arange(0,len(xy)-1):
              distance = sqrt((xy[k+1,0]-xy[k,0])**2 + 
(xy[k+1,1]-xy[k,1])**2)
              pt_dist.append(distance)
              # wtw print "k ",k, (xy[k,0], xy[k,1]), " distance: ", 
distance
          # wtwfor k in arange(0, len(xy)-50):
          # wtw    print "k: %3i dist: %6.2f (x,y) (%4.1f,%4.1f)" % (k, 
pt_dist[k], xy[k,0], xy[k,1])
          per_tile25 = stats.scoreatpercentile(pt_dist,25.0)
          per_tile50 = stats.scoreatpercentile(pt_dist,50.0)
          per_tile75 = stats.scoreatpercentile(pt_dist,75.0)
          mean       = stats.mean(pt_dist)
          std        = stats.std(pt_dist)
          #sys.exit()
          amin       = min(pt_dist)
          amax       = max(pt_dist)
          print "   mean: %7.2f std: %7.2f min: %7.2f max: %7.2f" % 
(mean, std, amin, amax)
          print "   quartiles (25-per: %7.2f, 50-per: %7.2f, 75-per: 
%7.2f): " % (per_tile25, per_tile50, per_tile75)
          #print "           Extended stats"
          #print "   min: %7.2f max: %7.2f mean: %7.2f std: %7.2f" % \
          #    (min, max, mean, std)
          #print "   p25: %7.2f p50: %7.2f p75: %7.2f" % (per_tile25, 
per_tile50, per_tile75)
          trk_stats = (amin, amax, mean, std, per_tile25, per_tile50, 
per_tile75)
          fig = figure()
          ax1 = fig.add_subplot(111)
          v = (0, 640, 0, 480)
          print "shapes: ", xy[:,0].shape, xy[:,1].shape
          fig.close()
          ax1.plot(xy[:,0], xy[:,1]) #,100*s, c , picker=True)
          ax1.axis(v)
          #x = (0,1,3,20,20);y=(5,7, 9, 22,90)
          #col = ax1.plot(x,y)
          show()

          print "something for wtw plot"
          print
          return trk_stats


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 23:01:16 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:01:16 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
>
> [snip]
> To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort of 
> world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I have 
> a series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment where 
> someone comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The 
> contents of these boxes are mine alone!

Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should not say that.

One should then be more precise.

One should say /what/ is passed by value.


[snip]

>  >>> import copy
>  >>> def doit(a):
> ...     a += a
> ...     return a
> ... 
>  >>> test1 = 1
>  >>> test2 = doit(test1)
>  >>> test1
> 1
>  >>> test2
> 2
>  >>> test3 = [1]
>  >>> test4 = doit(test3)
>  >>> test3
> [1, 1]
>  >>> test4
> [1, 1]
> 
> I know you already know this, but the point is: you're -hurting- other 
> peoples understanding by using terms like this that don't apply to 
> Python's specific nature.

The terms apply very well to Java. And Java has the identical parameter passing 
mechanism for class type objects. Hence, the argument is bogus.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

PS: I cannot see any of your postings on Usenet. So I just sort of grabbed this 
from GMane and posted to Usenet. Hopefully you'll see it back at the list. :-)


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 23:02:30 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:02:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
Message-ID: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
figure it out. Saying something like this:

from plistlib import readPlist
dict=readPlist('/path/file.plist')
--> arbitrarily ordered dictionary compared to the XML file

from collections import OrderedDict
OrderedDict(readPlist('/path/file.plist'))
--> essentially does the same thing as the previous
readPlist seems to do the scrambling, is this a non-implementation in
Python 3.1?

I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
impossible...

-- Gnarlie


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Feb  8 23:17:23 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:17:23 +1100
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871vgvjb58.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> writes:

> from plistlib import readPlist
> dict=readPlist('/path/file.plist')
> --> arbitrarily ordered dictionary compared to the XML file

Right. The items in a dict are unordered, and when serialised to a list
they will appear in an arbitrary, unpredictable order.

    >>> foo = dict(
    ...     [('a', 1), ('b', 2), ('c', 3), ('d', 4), ('e', 5)])
    >>> foo
    {'a': 1, 'c': 3, 'b': 2, 'e': 5, 'd': 4}

> from collections import OrderedDict
> OrderedDict(readPlist('/path/file.plist'))
> --> essentially does the same thing as the previous

Yes, because you are initialising an OrderedDict instance from a dict.
That accesses the dict items as an iterable, which of course is going to
retrieve the items in an arbitrary, unpredictable order.

    >>> foo.items()
    dict_items([('a', 1), ('c', 3), ('b', 2), ('e', 5), ('d', 4)])

The OrderedDict then faithfully remembers the arbitrary ordering of the
items.

    >>> from collections import OrderedDict
    >>> OrderedDict(foo.items())
    OrderedDict([('a', 1), ('c', 3), ('b', 2), ('e', 5), ('d', 4)])

> readPlist seems to do the scrambling

Nothing ?does? the scrambling; the order is forgotten by the dict as
soon as the items go in.

> I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
> impossible...

What you'll need to do is insert the items into the OrderedDict instance
in the desired order. You will, of course, need to define what that
desired order is.

    >>> sorted(foo.items(), key=(lambda item: item[0]))
    [('a', 1), ('b', 2), ('c', 3), ('d', 4), ('e', 5)]
    >>> OrderedDict(sorted(foo.items(), key=(lambda item: item[0])))
    OrderedDict([('a', 1), ('b', 2), ('c', 3), ('d', 4), ('e', 5)])

-- 
 \          ?When we talk to God, we're praying. When God talks to us, |
  `\         we're schizophrenic.? ?Jane Wagner, via Lily Tomlin, 1985 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Feb  8 23:21:13 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:21:13 -0500
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
In-Reply-To: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002082021w25ee9e7cq2918899828351026@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
> figure it out. Saying something like this:
>
> from plistlib import readPlist
> dict=readPlist('/path/file.plist')
> --> arbitrarily ordered dictionary compared to the XML file
>
> from collections import OrderedDict
> OrderedDict(readPlist('/path/file.plist'))
> --> essentially does the same thing as the previous
> readPlist seems to do the scrambling, is this a non-implementation in
> Python 3.1?
>
> I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
> impossible...
>
> -- Gnarlie

readPlist returns a dict. That dict is unordered. Wrapping the call in
OrderedDict() doesn't suddenly make readPlist use an ordered dict
instead, it just takes the (unordered) dict and sticks it in a new
OrderedDict. I suppose you could dig into the plistlib source code and
change that to use the OrderedDict if you really need it.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  8 23:25:25 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:25:25 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkqo3g$crs$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/8/2010 2:10 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> I apologize for assuming that "pointer" is a known word to [c.l.p.]
> denizens.

It is irrelevant.

Python calls Python functions by associating argument objects (or 
objects derived therefrom) with paramenter names, very much like 
assigment statements.

If one understands Python objects, names, and assignment statements, 
which one must to understand Python, this completely explains the 
function calls, function execution, and its effect on passed objects.

All Python expressions evaluate to an object. Call expressions evaluate 
to the object returned by the function.

Different interpreters implement call and return differently. Certainly, 
most humans do not use C pointers when they mentally execute Python code.

Terry Jan Reedy





From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 23:29:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:29:02 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> * Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort of
>> world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I have a
>> series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment where someone
>> comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The contents of these
>> boxes are mine alone!
>>
>
> Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should not say
> that.
>
> One should then be more precise.
>
> One should say /what/ is passed by value.
>

No.

One should not use the phrase that is fundamentally imprecise.

The phrase "pass by value" means something different then the phrase "pass
by object" aka "pass by sharing". They are in many cases very similar. They
are not the same. Using it is simply wrong. There is really no legitimate
argument you can make otherwise: even in languages where call-by-value IS
the norm, the phrase is imprecise enough to confuse people, as the semantics
of what call-by-value mean to a language vary. But those semantics do NOT
apply to Python.


[snip]
>
>>
>> I know you already know this, but the point is: you're -hurting- other
>> peoples understanding by using terms like this that don't apply to Python's
>> specific nature.
>>
>
> The terms apply very well to Java. And Java has the identical parameter
> passing mechanism for class type objects. Hence, the argument is bogus.
>

Java uses silly terminology; and that it chooses to use silly terminology in
no way impacts the validity of the argument. Java isn't an authority.
Python's been around longer! And the specific behavior here, "call by value
where the value is an object reference" was named "call by sharing" back in
the 1970's by Liskov.

Java isn't call-by-value (for objects) either, even if that phrase is common
in the Java community. C is call-by-value. VB is, I believe, call-by-value
-- though I may be wrong here, as I only sort of blinked at VB a long, long
time ago.

Its distinct. Its different. Its neither call-by-value, nor
call-by-reference. The /value/ of a thing is NOT its identity. Its the
/state/ of that thing.

By your argument, call-by-reference is call-by-value too! Because you're
passing "a value" -- but you're -always- going to pass some piece of data,
otherwise you're not actually passing anything.

The /by value/ vs /by reference/ vs /by sharing/ is not about "is a value
being passed", in all cases, "a value" is. By Value means a copy of the
thing is made. By Reference means you're accessing the callers variable
directly. By Sharing means you're both sharing the same object.

PS: I cannot see any of your postings on Usenet. So I just sort of grabbed
> this from GMane and posted to Usenet. Hopefully you'll see it back at the
> list. :-)


I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it as a
mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org's usenet
server->the world, some people don't seem to get my posts. Yet it shows up
on some news servers, not others.

No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.

--S
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From bchang2002 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 23:40:54 2010
From: bchang2002 at gmail.com (dontcare)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:40:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: xml.sax parsing elements with the same name
References: <51ad9cee-6b7b-42c8-8f9e-44c0f8b96bc7@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b4c2f2e$0$6731$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <961b9e15-5d20-472b-92bc-917796dc6e5e@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

If you are using jython, then you might also want to consider VTD-XML,
which is
a lot easier to use and faster than SAX, native XPath support may be
useful too

http;//vtd-xml.sf.net

On Jan 12, 12:13?am, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> amadain, 11.01.2010 20:13:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have an event log with 100s of thousands of entries with logs of the
> > form:
>
> > <event eventTimestamp="2009-12-18T08:22:49.035"
> > uniqueId="1261124569.35725_PFS_1_1340035961">
> > ? ?<result value="Blocked"/>
> > ? ? ? <filters>
> > ? ? ? ? ? <filter code="338" type="Filter_Name">
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <diagnostic>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<result value="Triggered"/>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? </diagnostic>
> > ? ? ? ? ? </filter>
> > ? ? ? ? ? <filter code="338" type="Filter_Name">
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <diagnostic>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<result value="Blocked"/>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? </diagnostic>
> > ? ? ? ? ? </filter>
> > ? ? ? </filters>
> > </event>
>
> > I am usingxml.saxto parse the event log.
>
> You should give ElementTree's iterparse() a try (xml.etree package).
> Instead of a stream of simple events, it will give you a stream of
> subtrees, which are a lot easier to work with. You can intercept the event
> stream on each 'event' tag, handle it completely in one obvious code step,
> and then delete any content you are done with to safe memory.
>
> It's also very fast, you will like not loose muchperformancecompared toxml.sax.
>
> Stefan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  8 23:47:20 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:47:20 -0500
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
In-Reply-To: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkqpci$f7l$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/8/2010 11:02 PM, Gnarlodious wrote:
> I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
> figure it out. Saying something like this:
>
> from plistlib import readPlist

As a general note, include a link or something when discussing a 
relatively obscure module that seems not to even be listed in pypi.

> dict=readPlist('/path/file.plist')

Redefining a basic builtin name like 'dict' is usually a bad idea.

> -->  arbitrarily ordered dictionary compared to the XML file
>
> from collections import OrderedDict
> OrderedDict(readPlist('/path/file.plist'))
> -->  essentially does the same thing as the previous
> readPlist seems to do the scrambling, is this a non-implementation in
> Python 3.1?
>
> I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
> impossible...

I agree with Benjamin -- check the source. Is plistlib 3.x ready?

Terry Jan Reedy



From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 00:12:07 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:12:07 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2199.1265689553.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2199.1265689553.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkqqnd$hbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Terry Reedy:
> On 2/8/2010 2:10 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> I apologize for assuming that "pointer" is a known word to [c.l.p.]
>> denizens.
> 
> It is irrelevant.
> 
> Python calls Python functions by associating argument objects (or 
> objects derived therefrom) with paramenter names, very much like 
> assigment statements.

Well, part of the above is word-play. When a name refers to an object elsewhere 
and that reference can be copied around, then it is a pointer to the object in 
e.g. the Java sense, which I very purposefully referenced to be clear about it. 
So you're saying that X is irrelevant in Python because Python uses Y, where Y 
is a description of X...

But part of what you write puzzles me.

As far as the language spec is concerned the argument passing mechanism seems to 
me to be identical to assignments, not just "very much like".

Your phrase "or objects derived therefrom" seems to imply that immutable objects 
can be copied (an optimization that once was rejected), but as far as I can see 
the language spec only talks about binding with no provision for binding to do 
anything else than making a name refer directly to a specified object, 
presumably with *the same id*.

Not talking about things built on top of argument passing like *, and not 
talking about scopes or other (in this context) extraneous details: is there 
something I've overlooked in the basic mechanism?


> If one understands Python objects, names, and assignment statements, 
> which one must to understand Python, this completely explains the 
> function calls, function execution, and its effect on passed objects.

Yes.

There are many ways to understand it though.

The simplest description, reality, that names refer to objects, where those 
references can be copied, i.e. that they in e.g. the Java sense are pointers to 
objects, seems to be simplest  --  and is certainly shortest. :-)


> All Python expressions evaluate to an object. Call expressions evaluate 
> to the object returned by the function.
> 
> Different interpreters implement call and return differently. Certainly, 
> most humans do not use C pointers when they mentally execute Python code.

The Java language spec reference for "pointer" was to avoid arguments about 
irrelevant specialized meanings of the term, such as C pointers.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 00:21:55 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <89d4fa66-8749-4551-909b-96f9182fd8c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Carl Banks wrote:

> I don't know if it was the reason it was rejected, but a seriously
> divisive question is whether the path should be a subset of string.

OMG that's nothing but the OO "circle vs ellipse" non-question. Glad
to see the Committee derailed a perfectly good library over such
sophistry.

> Under ordinary circumstances it would be a poor choice for inheritance
> (only a few string methods would be useful fot a pathname), but some
> people were fiercely adamant that paths should be passable to open()
> as-in (without having to explicity convert to string).

That's just silly. To be object-based, you should say path.open('r').
fopen() and its ilk are too 1960s...

My 5th Grade science teacher, one Eunice Feight, once expressed
chagrin for submitting a proposal to Readers' Digest, and getting it
accepted. She sold them the following sloka:

  Don't be clever don't be witty
  Or you'll wind up BEING the Committee!

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From ijcsorgeditor at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 00:35:55 2010
From: ijcsorgeditor at gmail.com (editor ijcs)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:35:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Call for Paper The International Journal of Computer Science (IJCS)
Message-ID: <ae5a881a-6509-436e-aa72-bfeb483b6cb3@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Call for Paper
The International Journal of Computer Science (IJCS) publishes
original papers on all subjects relevant to computer science,
communication network, and information systems. The highest priority
will be given to those contributions concerned with a discussion of
the background of a practical problem, the establishment of an
appropriate model, the determination of a solution, approximate or
exact, analytical or numerical, and a discussion of the relevance of
the results when applied to the real-life problem. Paper submissions
are invited in the area of computer science, in particular the
technological advances and research results in the fields of
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Topics of interest include but are not limited to the following:
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 00:38:26 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 05:38:26 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:01:16 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> * Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
>>
>> [snip]
>> To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort
>> of world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I
>> have a series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment
>> where someone comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The
>> contents of these boxes are mine alone!
> 
> Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should not
> say that.
> 
> One should then be more precise.
> 
> One should say /what/ is passed by value.

I don't see how that matters. Python's behaviour is EXACTLY the same, no 
matter what you pass to the function.

You don't pass pointers in Python, because you, the Python author, have 
no way of specifying a pointer in Python code. It is *always* an object 
that you pass, by giving a literal, the name an object is bound to, or 
some other expression that returns an object:

function( my_object )
function( 12345 )
function( ham(3) + spam(5) )

If you're talking to the person who writes Python code, then you should 
discuss the sorts of things that exist in Python: objects and names and 
expressions, but no pointers.

If you're talking about the Python virtual machine, instead of the high-
level Python code, then you should say so -- but there are still no 
pointers in the VM. Look at the output of dis.dis and you will see 
objects pushed onto a stack, but no pointers.

It's not until you get past the level of Python code, past the virtual 
machine, and into the implementation of the virtual machine, that you 
will finally find pointers.

But why stop there? If somebody asks you a question about Python, and you 
choose to ignore them and answer a different question about one 
particular implementation's internals instead, I don't see why you stop 
there. Why not go down another layer and talk about copying bytes, or two 
layers and answer that Python does call-by-bit-flipping, or a layer below 
that and say it's all done by varying potential differences?

You shouldn't expect your listener to understand machine code to 
understand Python's high-level behaviour, nor should you expect them to 
be C coders. You don't need to understand pointers to understand a 
language that doesn't support them.


[...]
> The terms apply very well to Java. And Java has the identical parameter
> passing mechanism for class type objects. Hence, the argument is bogus.

Everything I've said applies to Java as well, and the argument about call-
by-whatever is just as prevalent in Java circles as in Python.

Example #1:

    Q: If Java uses the pass-by reference, why won't a swap 
    function work?

    A: Your question demonstrates a common error made by Java 
    language newcomers. Indeed, even seasoned veterans find 
    it difficult to keep the terms straight. 

    Java does manipulate objects by reference, and all 
    object variables are references. However, Java doesn't 
    pass method arguments by reference; it passes them by 
    value.

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javaqa/2000-05/03-qa-0526-pass.html


Example #2: 

    Myth: "Objects are passed by reference, primitives are 
    passed by value" 
 
    Some proponents of this then say, "Ah, except for immutable 
    objects which are passed by value [etc]" which introduces 
    loads of rules without really tackling how Java works.

http://www.yoda.arachsys.com/java/passing.html


Example #3:

    Java is Pass-by-Value, Dammit!

http://javadude.com/articles/passbyvalue.htm


Java programmers suffer for a bad mental model just as much as Python 
programmers.

All this is because of two conceptual mistakes: (1) the Java community 
has conflated the internals of what happens in the implementation of the 
Java VM with high-level Java code; and (2) a refusal to accept that there 
are calling strategies other than pass-by-value and pass-by-reference.




-- 
Steven


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb  9 00:43:48 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:43:48 +1300
Subject: ctypes Structure serialization
References: <615b1271-a9b0-4558-8e45-e4370698d96a@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkqsmk$fho$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <615b1271-a9b0-4558-8e45-
e4370698d96a at a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, rych wrote:

> I'm not quite familiar with python serialization but the picle module,
> at least, doesn't seem to be able to serialize a ctypes Structure with
> array-fields.

Remember that a ctypes structure is supposed to represent a lower-language-
level structure, which is just a block of bytes. Those bytes are the 
serialization.


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 01:00:15 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:00:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 9 f?v, 02:50, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com> wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
> > In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > OdarR ?<olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> and with eval(), did you try ?
>
> > WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>
> Some say that eval is evil !
>
> JM

go to hell ;-), it is part of the language, it seems to match the
aforementioned question.

I don't see it as a problem.
Let's wait Klaus opinion.


Olivier


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 01:26:11 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:26:11 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002082226t7f042f00lf001c827fe7b88eb@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:00 PM, OdarR <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9 f?v, 02:50, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com> wrote:
> > Aahz wrote:
> > > In article <
> 0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > > OdarR  <olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> and with eval(), did you try ?
> >
> > > WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
> >
> > Some say that eval is evil !
> >
> > JM
>
> go to hell ;-), it is part of the language, it seems to match the
> aforementioned question.
>
> I don't see it as a problem.
>

Yes, it is a part of the language, because as a dynamic language has to have
such a capability.

Because there are legitimate use-cases for it.

But they are extremely rare.

Extremely rare.

But it is there: if there is a real, legitimate use-case for a feature that
can't be solved by other means, then certainly include a feature to
accomplish that goal.

But that doesn't mean you use that feature all over just because its there.
You use it when its appropriate. The ability to do a thing doesn't mean you
should do a thing.

In most cases, eval is not appropriate. It might do what you think you want,
but often there are huge consequences and not at all obvious considerations
you have to take into account.

Usually when you think you want to eval, there's a better way to approach
the problem. It might not seem right away to be as "easy" or "seamless" as
you think you want, but there are almost always compelling reasons why its
better, easier, more efficient and simpler.

People are trying to help the OP not only by providing the easiest approach
to solve a problem, but trying to show him the best way to make /good code/.
Good Code isn't a purely subjective thing left up to idle taste.

...

Also? "go to hell" even with a smiley is being an asshat.

Don't be an asshat.

--S
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From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 01:35:57 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:35:57 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Stephen Hansen:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no 
> <mailto:alfps at start.no>> wrote:
> 
>     * Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
> 
> 
>         [snip]
> 
>         To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a
>         sort of world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on
>         my desk I have a series of boxes with names on it. It describes
>         an environment where someone comes over and drops something into
>         each of my boxes. The contents of these boxes are mine alone!
> 
> 
>     Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should
>     not say that.
> 
>     One should then be more precise.
> 
>     One should say /what/ is passed by value.
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> One should not use the phrase that is fundamentally imprecise.
> 
> The phrase "pass by value" means something different then the phrase 
> "pass by object" aka "pass by sharing". They are in many cases very 
> similar. They are not the same.

Right.

"pass by value" is a lower level notion.

And as you show below, in the paragraph marked [1], it can be used to describe 
call by sharing very succinctly and precisely, just as I did... ;-)


> Using it is simply wrong. There is 
> really no legitimate argument you can make otherwise: even in languages 
> where call-by-value IS the norm, the phrase is imprecise enough to 
> confuse people, as the semantics of what call-by-value mean to a 
> language vary. But those semantics do NOT apply to Python.

In a way that's right, but only at the level of abstraction of pass by sharing.

At that level it's wrong to say that pass by sharing is pass by value (as they 
reportedly do over in Java-land), just as, at that level, it's wrong to say that 
pass by reference is pass by value notwithstanding that some kind of value must 
be copied in the internal implementation.

Describing pass by sharing in terms of pass by value is however very simple and 
legitimate, involving a higher level described in terms of a lower level  --  as 
you illustrate right below: <g>


>     [snip]
>         I know you already know this, but the point is: you're -hurting-
>         other peoples understanding by using terms like this that don't
>         apply to Python's specific nature.
>     The terms apply very well to Java. And Java has the identical
>     parameter passing mechanism for class type objects. Hence, the
>     argument is bogus.
> 
> 
> [1] Java uses silly terminology; and that it chooses to use silly 
> terminology in no way impacts the validity of the argument. Java isn't 
> an authority. Python's been around longer! And the specific behavior 
> here, "call by value where the value is an object reference" was named 
> "call by sharing" back in the 1970's by Liskov.

Yep.

As you write, "call by sharing" can be described as "call by value where the 
value is an object reference".

Althuogh I'd rather use "where the value is an object pointer", because the word 
"pointer" already denotes a copyable value so doesn't make the head spin...


> Java isn't call-by-value (for objects) either, even if that phrase is 
> common in the Java community.

Right, and here the parenthesis (for objects) establishes which abstraction level.


> C is call-by-value. VB is, I believe, 
> call-by-value -- though I may be wrong here, as I only sort of blinked 
> at VB a long, long time ago. 

Full VB supports both call by sharing and call by reference.


> Its distinct. Its different. Its neither call-by-value, nor 
> call-by-reference. The /value/ of a thing is NOT its identity. Its the 
> /state/ of that thing.

Talking about a reference value (a.k.a. pointer), as you do earlier above in 
[1], does not mean that one is talking about a Python object value.

So essentially the paragraph immediately above seems to be a confusion based on 
multiple meanings of "value", unless it's just a description of Python objects?


> By your argument, call-by-reference is call-by-value too! Because you're 
> passing "a value" -- but you're -always- going to pass some piece of 
> data, otherwise you're not actually passing anything. 

No, whatever you think my argument is (no quote, so I'm left in the dark about 
that assumption) here you're back to confusing levels of abstraction again.

Call by reference is necessarily, at some level, implemented in terms of call by 
value.

That doesn't make call by reference the same as call by value, not more than the 
human body is one giant molecule just because it consists of molecules.


> The /by value/ vs /by reference/ vs /by sharing/ is not about "is a 
> value being passed", in all cases, "a value" is. By Value means a copy 
> of the thing is made. By Reference means you're accessing the callers 
> variable directly. By Sharing means you're both sharing the same object.

Yes, violent agreement.


>     PS: I cannot see any of your postings on Usenet. So I just sort of
>     grabbed this from GMane and posted to Usenet. Hopefully you'll see
>     it back at the list. :-)
> 
> 
> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in 
> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it 
> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org 
> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem 
> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
> 
> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.

Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From frank at chagford.com  Tue Feb  9 01:45:03 2010
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:45:03 +0200
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
References: <mailman.1949.1265374022.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<770583c3-a7c7-4a3d-b90f-9546801040e3@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkr09k$tkt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Feb 8, 4:51 pm, Steven <Steven.Rumbal... at fiserv.com> wrote:
>
> Queue objects have support for this signaling baked in with
> q.task_done and q.join.
>
> After the server process has put all tasks into the queue, it can join
> the queue itself, not the worker threads.
>
> q.join()
>
> This will block until all tasks have been gotten AND completed.  The
> worker threads would simply do this:
> task_data = q.get()
> do_task(task_data)
> q.task_done()
>
> Using pairs of get and task_done you no longer need to send a signal.
> Just exit the server process and the worker threads will die (assuming
> of course, you set .setDaemon(True) before starting each worker
> thread).
>

Thanks, Steven.

This works perfectly in my scenario, and tidies up the code a bit.

Minor point - according to the 2.6 docs, .setDaemon(True) is the old API - 
the current way of specifying this is .daemon = True.

Thanks for the tip.

Frank




From nad at acm.org  Tue Feb  9 01:47:25 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:47:25 -0800
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqpci$f7l$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nad-8C3A3F.22472408022010@news.gmane.org>

In article <hkqpci$f7l$1 at ger.gmane.org>, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> 
wrote:
> On 2/8/2010 11:02 PM, Gnarlodious wrote:
> > I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
> > figure it out. Saying something like this:
> > from plistlib import readPlist
> As a general note, include a link or something when discussing a 
> relatively obscure module that seems not to even be listed in pypi.

http://docs.python.org/library/plistlib.html

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From pwashington85 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 01:47:42 2010
From: pwashington85 at gmail.com (spike)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:47:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 1:35?pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
> spike wrote:
> > Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
> > flow chart?
>
> > An example can be seen on the right under History:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>
> > This would be very helpful for all users.
>
> Huh??? ?What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>
> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?
>
> Gary Herron

Do you know what "Logic" means? Guess not. Before you comedians quit
your day job some people are looking for information. If you have
nothing positive to say, go pester somewhere else.

Grow up.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Feb  9 01:55:16 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:16 +1300
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7tceiuF94hU1@mid.individual.net>

Carl Banks wrote:
> I don't remember if the idea of modifying open to accept path
> objects came up.

It wouldn't just be open() that people would want modified --
it would be every other function that takes a pathname as
well.

I seem to recall another point of contention was whether
path objects should have methods for accessing the file
system (opening files, renaming them, etc.) or whether it
should confine itself to representing and manipulating
pathnames.

In any case, introducing any kind of path object at this
late stage of the language's development would result in
More Than One Way to represent pathnames, with neither of
them being the obvious choice.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Feb  9 01:58:29 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:58:29 +1300
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2191.1265682010.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2191.1265682010.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tceorF94hU2@mid.individual.net>

Tim Chase wrote:

> I prefer the strength of Triple ROT-13 for my obfuscation needs, but I 
> don't see it listed here.

That's old hat -- with the advent of 3GHz cpus and GPGPU, all the
experts are recommending quadruple ROT-128 nowadays.

-- 
Greg


From python at rcn.com  Tue Feb  9 02:15:57 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:15:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4576331d-fb60-499e-aff6-f61a4c0fc01e@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 8:02?pm, Gnarlodious <gnarlodi... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
> figure it out. Saying something like this:
...
> I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
> impossible...

You may be able to monkey patch an OrderedDict into the PlistParser.
Here's an untested stab at it:

    from collections import OrderedDict
    import plistlib
    plistlib._InteralDict = OrderedDict

Raymond




From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 02:19:56 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:19:56 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:01:16 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> * Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
>>> [snip]
>>> To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort
>>> of world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I
>>> have a series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment
>>> where someone comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The
>>> contents of these boxes are mine alone!
>> Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should not
>> say that.
>>
>> One should then be more precise.
>>
>> One should say /what/ is passed by value.
> 
> I don't see how that matters. Python's behaviour is EXACTLY the same, no 
> matter what you pass to the function.
> 
> You don't pass pointers in Python, because you, the Python author, have 
> no way of specifying a pointer in Python code. It is *always* an object 
> that you pass, by giving a literal, the name an object is bound to, or 
> some other expression that returns an object:
> 
> function( my_object )
> function( 12345 )
> function( ham(3) + spam(5) )

Every name and literal above (and in Python generally) stands for a copyable 
reference to an object, not for the object itself. You can copy the reference:

   a = [123]
   b = a
   assert( a is b )    # Doesn't matter if mutable or immutable or what.

A copyable reference is a pointer. That is, a "pointer", in e.g. the Java sense, 
  and in the general language independent sense, means a copyable reference  -- 
  as illustrated e.g. in the Stanford computer science 101 course page I 
referred you to earlier, with C versus Java pointers illustrated in the concrete.

Hence, since every name and literal above stands for a copyable reference, and 
since a copyable reference is a pointer, every name and literal above stands for 
a pointer  --  that's /all/ that you handle directly in Python, namely pointers.

But if that terminology sounds bad or has too strong C-vibes or Java-vibes or 
whatever, then we just need some other term for a Python "copyable reference".


> If you're talking to the person who writes Python code, then you should 
> discuss the sorts of things that exist in Python: objects and names and 
> expressions, but no pointers.

Well, given this terminology debate we may need some other term.

But IMHO the horse drawing the wagon needs to be mentioned to the potential 
wagon driver, whatever that horse is called  --  fourfooter, drawing-animal...

Anything else seems just senseless, meaningless abstraction, replacing one 
simple single concept with a load of connections and special case rules.


> If you're talking about the Python virtual machine, instead of the high-
> level Python code, then you should say so -- but there are still no 
> pointers in the VM. Look at the output of dis.dis and you will see 
> objects pushed onto a stack, but no pointers.

I don't think you will see any Python objects pushed on the stack. But you will 
see copyable object references pushed on the stack. That is, you will see 
pointers pushed on the stack.


> It's not until you get past the level of Python code, past the virtual 
> machine, and into the implementation of the virtual machine, that you 
> will finally find pointers.

There too.


> But why stop there? If somebody asks you a question about Python, and you 
> choose to ignore them and answer a different question about one 
> particular implementation's internals instead, I don't see why you stop 
> there. Why not go down another layer and talk about copying bytes, or two 
> layers and answer that Python does call-by-bit-flipping, or a layer below 
> that and say it's all done by varying potential differences?

I think a good professional programmer knows about all these levels.

Unfortunately, at least about 10 years ago students fresh out of college in 
Norway did not know about "internal" things such as call stacks, which led them 
to adopt many Unholy Programming Practices and to be Extremely Baffled by things 
such as stack traces.


> You shouldn't expect your listener to understand machine code to 
> understand Python's high-level behaviour, nor should you expect them to 
> be C coders. You don't need to understand pointers to understand a 
> language that doesn't support them.

 From the above comments it seems you're thinking about C pointers. To prevent 
that misconception I've defined the term "pointer" in every or most every 
posting I've made in this thread, including this posting. I've also posted a 
link to a Stanford University page with a simple-words explanation (they even 
have an animated Bunny video, although I've not looked at it); it's CS 101.

You don't have anything /but/ pointers in Python.

So pointers are key  --  by whatever name.


[snip]
> Java programmers suffer for a bad mental model just as much as Python 
> programmers.

Yes. :-)


> All this is because of two conceptual mistakes: (1) the Java community 
> has conflated the internals of what happens in the implementation of the 
> Java VM with high-level Java code; and (2) a refusal to accept that there 
> are calling strategies other than pass-by-value and pass-by-reference.

I'm not entirely sure about causes, but there is a tendency in general for 
humans to go from one extreme to another that they regard as "opposite". Using 
the term "call by value" for the Java (and Python) parameter passing is just 
Wrong(TM), at least without a clear understanding of what can be passed. Using 
"call by value" in a description of that model, mentioning very clearly what's 
passed, is on the other hand very practical: it's short, succinct & correct.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From sivaits4u at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 02:20:22 2010
From: sivaits4u at gmail.com (Bujji)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:50:22 +0530
Subject: event handling in pyuthon
Message-ID: <581ce2791002082320t2af425ffif36e6683e08cd038@mail.gmail.com>

hi all,
any event handling mechanisms in python ?
i want event handler examples in python


Thanks
Bujji
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From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Tue Feb  9 02:29:33 2010
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:29:33 +0000
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <873a1a3m02.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:43:46 -0800, Aahz wrote:
>
>>>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>>>
>>>warning : it works !
>> 
>> Works for what?
>
> Code injection security bugs, of course.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_injection
>
> It is surprisingly difficult to sanitize strings in Python to make them 
> safe to pass to eval. Unless you are prepared to trust the input data 
> explicitly, it's best to just avoid eval.

Despite the fact that it's used in the standard library...


From gherron at digipen.edu  Tue Feb  9 02:35:51 2010
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:35:51 -0800
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B711057.9030003@digipen.edu>

spike wrote:
> On Feb 8, 1:35 pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>   
>> spike wrote:
>>     
>>> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
>>> flow chart?
>>>       
>>> An example can be seen on the right under History:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>>>       
>>> This would be very helpful for all users.
>>>       
>> Huh???  What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>>
>> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?
>>
>> Gary Herron
>>     
>
> Do you know what "Logic" means? Guess not. Before you comedians quit
> your day job some people are looking for information. If you have
> nothing positive to say, go pester somewhere else.
>
> Grow up.
>   

Why the attitude?  I wouldn't have asked for a clarification if I didn't 
want to help.  However, I seriously have *no* idea what the OP has asked 
for when he says "Python logic map".   Do you?  If so, then answer the 
poor guy's question instead of whining at me.  (And I'll respectfully 
read your answer, just to see how you interpret "Python logic map".)

And I still claim that the example he aimed us at does not help in 
figuring out what he's asking.  It's a (nearly) 30 year old ascii-art 
drawing of the connectivity between (mostly university and government 
research lab ) computers that comprised the UUCP/USENET and ARPANET -- 
the precursor to today's internet.  BUT, that begs the question:  What 
does an old network connectivity chart have to do with a "Python logic map"?

If the OP is asking for a way to draw flow charts of Python programs, 
then why is his example of something that is *not* a flow chart, and 
drawn with 30 year old technology to boot.

If he is asking for a way to draw some kind of a connectivity graph, 
then I have to ask: Connectivity of what?

-- 
Gary Herron, PhD.
Department of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From austin.bingham at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 02:39:49 2010
From: austin.bingham at gmail.com (Austin Bingham)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:39:49 +0100
Subject: C/C++ Import
In-Reply-To: <hkpffr$7tv$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpffr$7tv$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bf1abd11002082339n425ef2adj61080e8e0e2a3011@mail.gmail.com>

Just to elaborate on Terry's point a bit, sys.path is influenced (in
part) by the PYTHONPATH environment variable. If you find that the
directory containing 'python' is not in sys.path (which you can check
with 'import sys; print sys.path'), add that directory to PYTHONPATH
and try again. This may not be the solution you ultimately end up
using, but it'll get you pointed in the right direction.

Austin

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 2/7/2010 10:56 PM, 7H3LaughingMan wrote:
>>
>> To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
>> program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
>> since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
>> designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
>> release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
>> got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
>> needs.
>>
>> The program is running the following code...
>> PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );
>>
>> This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
>> folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
>> PyErr_Print())
>> ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager
>>
>> I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
>> how to do a proper import?
>
> Your 'python' package directory must be in a directory listed in sys.path. I
> would print that check.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 03:11:02 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 08:11:02 GMT
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<873a1a3m02.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.08.11.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:29:33 +0000, Paul Rudin wrote:

>> It is surprisingly difficult to sanitize strings in Python to make them
>> safe to pass to eval. Unless you are prepared to trust the input data
>> explicitly, it's best to just avoid eval.
> 
> Despite the fact that it's used in the standard library...

Wisely or not, the standard library implicitly trusts it's input.

That's one of the many reasons why it's so hard to have a restricted 
subset of Python.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 03:21:48 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 08:21:48 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.08.21.47@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:19:56 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> You don't have anything /but/ pointers in Python.

x = 5
y = "hello"

You want us to accept that the values of x and y are some mysterious 
pointer entities rather than the integer object 5 and the string object 
"hello".

At the point that your explanation depends on the reader understanding 
that the value of a variable x is not actually the thing that they assign 
to x, but some mysterious, invisible entity that exists entirely inside 
the implementation where the user can never reach, you probably should 
rethink your attachment to that explanation. No wonder so many Java 
programmers are still confused by it.

It might help your case if we had a word for the thing that is actually 
assigned to the variable. In plain English that is "value", but you want 
to use that for the pointer to the thing-that-we-otherwise-would-call-
value, which leaves us no simple way to talk about the int 5 and string 
"hello".



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Feb  9 03:40:16 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:40:16 +0100
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
In-Reply-To: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7tclbhF8ttU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 06.02.10 12:48, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
> It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods
> which have been decorated.
>
>
> Here is my test file:
>
> # ======
> class MyStaticMethod(object):
>      """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor."""
>      def __init__(self, f):
>          self.f = f
>      def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
>          return self.f
>
> class Test(object):
>      def method1(self):
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print 'x'
>          x
>          """
>
>      @staticmethod
>      def method2():
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print 'y'
>          y
>          """
>
>      @MyStaticMethod
>      def method3():
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print '***'  # This test should fail.
>          z
>          """
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      import doctest
>      doctest.testmod(verbose=True)
> # ======
>
>
> and here is the output using Python 2.6.4:
>
> [steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 test_doctests.py
> Trying:
>      print 'x'
> Expecting:
>      x
> ok
> Trying:
>      print 'y'
> Expecting:
>      y
> ok
> 5 items had no tests:
>      __main__
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod.__get__
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod.__init__
>      __main__.Test
> 2 items passed all tests:
>     1 tests in __main__.Test.method1
>     1 tests in __main__.Test.method2
> 2 tests in 7 items.
> 2 passed and 0 failed.
> Test passed.
>
>
> It doesn't even see method3, let alone run the tests.
>
>
> This looks like  bug to me. Have I missed anything?
>
> Any work arounds?


Use functools.wraps to preserve some essential parts of the function 
declaration.

def my_static(f):
     @wraps(f)
     def _d(*args, **kwargs):
        return f(*args, **kwargs)
     return _d


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Feb  9 03:47:42 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:47:42 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7tclpfFccvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 09.02.10 07:00, schrieb OdarR:
> On 9 f?v, 02:50, Jean-Michel Pichavant<jeanmic... at sequans.com>  wrote:
>> Aahz wrote:
>>> In article<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>>> OdarR<olivier.da... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>>> and with eval(), did you try ?
>>
>>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>>
>> Some say that eval is evil !
>>
>> JM
>
> go to hell ;-), it is part of the language, it seems to match the
> aforementioned question.

And if the extension happens to be valid python-code, you might inject 
code malus code through the filename. Great idea!

globals()["function_" + ext]()

is all you need, and doesn't suffer from that attack vector.

Diez


From george.sakkis at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 03:54:08 2010
From: george.sakkis at gmail.com (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 00:54:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
Message-ID: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

I was talking to a colleague about one rather unexpected/undesired
(though not buggy) behavior of some package we use. Although there is
an easy fix (or at least workaround) on our end without any apparent
side effect, he strongly suggested extending the relevant code by hard
patching it and posting the patch upstream, hopefully to be accepted
at some point in the future. In fact we maintain patches against
specific versions of several packages that are applied automatically
on each new build. The main argument is that this is the right thing
to do, as opposed to an "ugly" workaround or a fragile monkey patch.
On the other hand, I favor practicality over purity and my general
rule of thumb is that "no patch" > "monkey patch" > "hard patch", at
least for anything less than a (critical) bug fix.

So I'm wondering if there is a consensus on when it's better to (hard)
patch, monkey patch or just try to work around a third party package
that doesn't do exactly what one would like. Does it have mainly to do
with the reason for the patch (e.g. fixing a bug, modifying behavior,
adding missing feature), the given package (size, complexity,
maturity, developer responsiveness), something else or there are no
general rules and one should decide on a case-by-case basis ?

George


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  9 04:04:20 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 01:04:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

> go to hell ;-), it is part of the language, it seems to match the
> aforementioned question.

Thats right. In fact, your code is the precise analogy of my Prolog
example in Python. Obviously, eval() and call() are both inherently
dangerous. They should never be used in programs that are used in
programs that get input from people other than the author. Yet, my
program is supposed to parse files that I have created myself and that
are on my laptop. It is not supposed to interact with anybody else
than me.

On the other hand, I think, it is worthwhile getting acquainted with
the getattr-stuff, because this method can be useful in many contexts.

Anyway, thanks to all who participated in this thread. It taught me a
lot.


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 04:08:15 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:08:15 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.09.08.21.47@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.09.08.21.47@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkr8i6$f44$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:19:56 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> You don't have anything /but/ pointers in Python.
> 
> x = 5

The above assigns to x a pointer to an object whose value is 5:

    x ------>  5


> y = "hello"

Ditto result:

    y ------>  "hello"


And if now do

    x = y

then the code is assigning (copying) to x the pointer in y:

    x -----------
                 \
    y ---------- > "hello"

which you can check by

    assert( x is y )

or

    assert( id( x ) == id( y ) )

and which becomes essential to understand when that object is mutable...

Like:

   x = [1, 2, 3, 4]
   y = "hello"

   y = x
   y.append( 5 )

   print( x )


> You want us to accept that the values of x and y are some mysterious 
> pointer entities rather than the integer object 5 and the string object 
> "hello".

The basics of pointers are simple.

You can copy pointers (assignment, argument), and you can check for equality 
(is), and you can refer to the object that's pointed to (attribute access, 
indexing, operators). And in CPython you can even obtain the pointer value as an 
integer via id().

So there's nothing mysterious.

In particular

    x = [1, 2, 3, 4]
    y = x

does not copy the object value, it only copies the pointer.

That also matters for e.g.

    x = 10000000*"A"
    y = x

And aliasing, like in the last three examples above, is pretty difficult to 
understand without a pointer view of things.

And if aliasing is not understood, then forever stranded at beginner's level.


> At the point that your explanation depends on the reader understanding 
> that the value of a variable x is not actually the thing that they assign 
> to x, but some mysterious, invisible entity that exists entirely inside 
> the implementation where the user can never reach, you probably should 
> rethink your attachment to that explanation. No wonder so many Java 
> programmers are still confused by it.

Thanks for thinking about my writings.

As it happens I've already written about pointers in chapter 2, although not 
mentioning the word "pointer". :-)

I made do with the term "reference", because in Python there's not anything else 
(in particular there's no pass by reference) that could cause confusion.

However, that cop-out (is that the right term?) wouldn't work for text based on 
a language like C++, which has another kind of reference, or for that matter C# 
which is like Python and Java except that C# also has pass by reference...

Some mixed feedbacks on that writing, but it's section 2.6.7 "References & 
automatic garbage collection" in ch 2 "Basic concepts" at <url: 
http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> (I hope I typed the URL correctly).


> It might help your case if we had a word for the thing that is actually 
> assigned to the variable. In plain English that is "value", but you want 
> to use that for the pointer to the thing-that-we-otherwise-would-call-
> value, which leaves us no simple way to talk about the int 5 and string 
> "hello".

There are two values: the pointer value, and the object value.

In CPython:

   >>> a = "blah"
   >>> str.format( "Pointer = {0}, object = {1}".format( id( a ), a ) )
   'Pointer = 12090272, object = blah'
   >>> _

More simply, there's the pointer and there's the object pointed to.

Or, in the not-very-general-but-I-think-works-in-Python terminology that I used 
in 2.6.7, there's the reference and there's the object.

So the thing that's actually assigned to a variable is in language-independent 
terminology a "pointer" (or pointer value), although that doesn't mean C or 
Pascal or whatever specific language pointer but just a copyable object 
reference, and perhaps in Python-specific terminology it's just a "reference".

I don't know better terms...


Cheers,

- Alf


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Feb  9 04:21:29 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:21:29 +0100
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
In-Reply-To: <hkq0aj$v4s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkq0aj$v4s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b712919$0$6584$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 08.02.2010 22:39:
> In message <4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93 at newsspool2.arcor-online.net>, Stefan 
> Behnel wrote:
> 
>> - generating HTML using a tool that guarantees correct HTML output
> 
> Where do you think these tools come from?

Usually PyPI.

Stefan


From waku at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Feb  9 04:51:57 2010
From: waku at idi.ntnu.no (waku)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 01:51:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 10:49?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2:21?am,waku<w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:

[...]

> > there are languages where indentation can be either enforced and allow
> > one to omit some syntactic nuissance like braces or begin-end clauses,
> > or made optional, requiring other syntactic means for delimiting
> > blocks etc. ?(consider f# with its #light declaration, for example.)
>
> If you're writing "experimental code", you're doing it wrong. Every
> line of code you write may end up on the space shuttle one day (so to
> speak!) Why not write the code well-formatted in the first place, so
> that any bugs you introduce are as easily visible as possible?

you're missing the large part of the language's customers that use it
specifically for experimenting.  they're not developing space
shuttles, but rather explore available data, experiment with
algorithms, etc.  (and for space shuttles, i doubt python is the first
choice anyway.)

yes, i am writing lots of experimental code, and i know many who do,
too, and there is *nothing* wrong about it.  and then, i sometimes use
ipython to interactively experiment, saving the input to a log file,
and editing it afterwards as needed.  and just the mere fact that i
*have* to adapt my editor to ipython's indentation policy (or vice
versa) whenever working with others' code because otherwise the code
fails, is fairly annoying.  there is nothing wrong or stupid about the
editor in this respect.


> The only reason why you may want to write crap code without proper
> formatting is because your text editor is stupid.

'proper' formatting is, in some languages, something achieved by
simply running a pretty formatter.  in some, it's the job of the
programmer.  it has nothing to do with the claimed stupidity of the
editor.

> If that's the case,
> get rid of your text editor and find some tools that help you do the
> right thing the first time.

[...]

> If you're text editor has a problem with indenting, you have a
> terrible text editor. Period, end of sentence.
>

you're just wrong.


> You can't screw in bolts with a hammer, and you can't level with a
> saw.

... and you can't freely format you code with python.

> Don't try to write code in any language without a real text

'real'?  meaning one able to guess how to combine code from multiple
developers with different indentation policies, for example, one using
tabs, another four spaces, and yet another eight?  (which is not at
all uncommon, and not quite wrong or stupid.)

> editor that can do proper indentation. Don't let your teammates use
> deficient text editors either. I wouldn't appreciate it if I delivered
> precision components that my teammates tried to install with
> sledgehammers.
>
> This is the 21st Century. Good text editors are not hard to find on
> any platform.

'stupid', 'wrong', 'deficient', 'terrible', ...  you're using strong
words instead of concrete arguments, it might intimidate your
opponents, but is hardly helpful in a fair discussion.

vQ




From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Feb  9 05:01:04 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:01:04 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Klaus Neuner, 09.02.2010 10:04:
> my program is supposed to parse files that I have created myself and that
> are on my laptop. It is not supposed to interact with anybody else
> than me.

Famous last words.

Stefan


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 05:06:52 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 02:06:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simulating logging.exception with another traceback
References: <0c13d3f7-addf-4972-91c3-6f41fadfb2b5@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<3512c1a4-01e3-449d-8e48-e673e668bb17@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1ec8b017-36cc-4ed2-b6d1-52ddc5015d13@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 8 feb, 21:13, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sa... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 11:22?am, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I would want to get the output from `logging.exception` but with
> > traceback from the caller function (I've already all that
> > information).
>
> > This would be the error withlogging.exception:
> > --------------------
> > ERROR:
> > ? PipeError('/bin/ls -l | ?', 'no command after of pipe')
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
> > 160, in __call__
> > ? ? raise PipeError(command, 'no command after of pipe')
> > PipeError: ('/bin/ls -l | ?', 'no command after of pipe')
> > --------------------
>
> > And I've trying it with:
> > --------------------
> > message = "File \"{0}\", line {1}, in {2}\n\n ?{3}".format(
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? file, line, function, caller)logging.error(message)
>
> > ERROR:
> > ? File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
> > ? 163, in __call__ ? ?return self.throw(PipeError, command, 'no
> > ? command after of pipe')
> > --------------------
>
> > Could be used `logging.LogRecord` [1] to get it? How?
>
> > [1]http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#logging.LogRecord
>
> Sorry, Joan,
>
> I don't understand your question. Can you create a short script which
> throws an exception, and show exactly how you want it formatted?
>
> The logger.exception method does the same as logger.error, except that
> it prints exception trace information and is intended to be called
> from exception handling clauses. You can format exceptions how you
> like by subclassing Formatter and overriding formatException.
>
> Regards,
>
> Vinay Sajip

Hi!
I want to throw `logging.exception()` [1] but using the traceback of
caller's function, so:

---------
up=1
frame = traceback.extract_stack(limit=up+2)
---------

Reading the code, `traceback.print_exception` prints the message from
a record got with `LogRecord.getMessage()` [2] So I'm supposed that
I'd have to use it to get a new record that can be used by
`traceback.print_exception`.


[1] http://code.python.org/hg/branches/release2.6-maint-full/file/f5a05355fe48/Lib/logging/__init__.py#l408
[2] http://code.python.org/hg/branches/release2.6-maint-full/file/f5a05355fe48/Lib/logging/__init__.py#l423


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 05:11:05 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:11:05 -0300
Subject: Need installer recommendation
References: <6q2rm5htqdj2puinbg9pmkco8o6nhd72h5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7uukry1x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:45:39 -0300, Alan Biddle <ALANBIDDLE70 at yahoo.com>
escribi?:

> I could use a recommendation on a free installer for use by an
> unsophisticated programmer, that would be me, for some simple programs
> which are a bit more than "Hello World," but only a little.  Basically
> reading text files and processing the results.  Nothing fancy.  I am
> using PY2EXE to create the distribution.
>
> In doing the Google, and from past posting here, I see that most
> recommendations are for inno and nsis.  I expect that either would do
> what I want.  Is one a better choice for someone to learn enough to do
> basic stuff without getting bogged down in details which are not
> immediately important?

I, for myself, prefer InnoSetup. For a simple and standard installer, just
use the wizard to create it, and you're done.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 05:11:09 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:11:09 -0300
Subject: Pickling an extension type subclasses problems
References: <b777f2e01002050625j48ebcf9fl80dfa6e68ccee0e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7uukvb6x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:25:02 -0300, Gaetan de Menten <gdementen at gmail.com>
escribi?:

> I am trying to write an (optional!) C extension for SQLAlchemy, and I
> am struggling to make an extension type picklable *and* using the same
> format as the pure Python version (so that computers with the C
> extension can unpickle pickles from computers without it and
> vice-versa). [...]
> My last hope is to define __reduce__ on the Python
> side too,

That seems reasonable.

> and make it use a module-level "reconstructor" function as
> follow:
>
> def mypythontype_reconstructor(cls, state):
>     obj = object.__new__(cls, state):
>     ....
>     return obj
>
> Will this work? Any other idea?

If you're going to call object.__new__(cls, state) anyway, then just
return the object's type as the first item in __reduce__; no need to
create such global function


-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 05:25:42 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:25:42 +0100
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <49d5eb96-1a07-47a3-bc7b-e54ab963151d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<49d5eb96-1a07-47a3-bc7b-e54ab963151d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B713826.6010009@sequans.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Feb 8, 12:20 pm, spike <pwashingto... at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
>> flow chart?
>>
>> An example can be seen on the right under History:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>>
>> This would be very helpful for all users.
>>     
>
>
> Begin
>   |
>   |
>   V
> Start Editor
>   |
>   |
>   V
> Write Code <----+
>   |             |
>   |             |
>   V             |
> Run Python      |
>   |             |
>   |             | No.
>   V             |
> Did it do what you want?
>   |
>   | Yes.
>   |
>   V
> Stop.
>
>
> HTH.
>
>
> Carl Banks
>   

I use this one:

Begin
  |
  |
  V
Start Mail client
  |
  |
  V
Ask python-list <-----+
  |                   |
  |                   |
  V            what a bunch of dumbass       
wait 2 min            |
  |                   |
  |                   | No.
  V                   |
Did you get any answer ?
  |
  | Yes.
  |
  V
Stop.



JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 05:39:58 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:39:58 +0100
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <4B713826.6010009@sequans.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>	<49d5eb96-1a07-47a3-bc7b-e54ab963151d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4B713826.6010009@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B713B7E.3080302@sequans.com>


>>   
>
> I use this one:
>
> Begin
>  |
>  |
>  V
> Start Mail client
>  |
>  |
>  V
> Ask python-list <-----+
>  |                   |
>  |                   |
>  V            what a bunch of dumbass       wait 2 min            |
>  |                   |
>  |                   | No.
>  V                   |
> Did you get any answer ?
>  |
>  | Yes.
>  |
>  V
> Stop.
>
>
>
> JM
How to miss a joke thanks to some crappy line word wraping whatsoever 
feature. I'll burn thunderbird. Don't use it !


JM


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 05:44:57 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Feb 2010 10:44:57 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> A copyable reference is a pointer. That is, a "pointer", in e.g. the
> Java sense, 
>   and in the general language independent sense, means a copyable
>   reference  -- as illustrated e.g. in the Stanford computer science
>   101 course page I 
> referred you to earlier, with C versus Java pointers illustrated in
> the concrete. 

The fact that C style pointers are used internally is an detail of the 
CPython implementation.

In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location (and 
their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the objects 
themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed address. Try 
comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers and you'll cause a 
lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the id() value is in some way 
related to an address.

Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's nothing 
in the Python specification which prevents a Python implementation doing 
the same for small integers, in fact I believe it has been tried but wasn't 
found to improve performance.

The terminology of 'objects', 'names', 'references' describes an abstract 
machine. The Python runtime can implement it in any way it chooses so long 
as those semantics are preserved. One implementation involves 'pointers', 
but that word implies other baggage which is not a required part of the 
model.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb  9 05:50:05 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:50:05 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied (Firewall)
In-Reply-To: <hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkrekv$r5m$1@news.eternal-september.org>

(corrected typos)
I decided to go with outbound in McAfee. Now when I run the program, I 
get a long list of messages about deprecations and  NumpyTest will be 
removed in the next release. please update code to nose or unittest.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 07:31:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:31:17 -0500
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkrklk$rld$1@ger.gmane.org>

spike wrote:
> On Feb 8, 1:35 pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>> spike wrote:
>>> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
>>> flow chart?
>>> An example can be seen on the right under History:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>>> This would be very helpful for all users.
>> Huh???  What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>>
>> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?
>>
>> Gary Herron
> 
> Do you know what "Logic" means? Guess not. Before you comedians quit
> your day job some people are looking for information. If you have
> nothing positive to say, go pester somewhere else.
> 
> Grow up.

Oh right, we forgot, it's our duty to answer every question that comes
in, seriously and to the point, no matter how badly it is phrased and
how obnoxious the questioner becomes when the answer is not immediately
forthcoming.

This is the Intarwebs. I suggest it's *you* who needs to grow up.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 07:38:42 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:38:42 -0500
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <89d4fa66-8749-4551-909b-96f9182fd8c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<89d4fa66-8749-4551-909b-96f9182fd8c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkrl3h$u2v$1@ger.gmane.org>

Phlip wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if it was the reason it was rejected, but a seriously
>> divisive question is whether the path should be a subset of string.
> 
> OMG that's nothing but the OO "circle vs ellipse" non-question. Glad
> to see the Committee derailed a perfectly good library over such
> sophistry.
> 
That's nothing but the most arrant nonsense, as you would discover if
you took the trouble to read the discussion on python-dev instead of
jumping to conclusions.

>> Under ordinary circumstances it would be a poor choice for inheritance
>> (only a few string methods would be useful fot a pathname), but some
>> people were fiercely adamant that paths should be passable to open()
>> as-in (without having to explicity convert to string).
> 
> That's just silly. To be object-based, you should say path.open('r').
> fopen() and its ilk are too 1960s...
> 
What? Are you arguing for "myfile.txt".open('r') to be a valid Python
construct? If not then surely you can see that paths would require
different treatment from strings, which was the main thrust of the
discussion on the dev list.

I find it really irritating when the clueless come along and criticize
decisions made by the developers after thorough discussion. Not only do
decisions have to be made about how code is going to work (and work for
the next twenty years or so), but someone has to commit to maintaining
the code before it goes in (otherwise Python will be full of bit-rot).

To call your criticism ill-informed would be flattering it.

> My 5th Grade science teacher, one Eunice Feight, once expressed
> chagrin for submitting a proposal to Readers' Digest, and getting it
> accepted. She sold them the following sloka:
> 
>   Don't be clever don't be witty
>   Or you'll wind up BEING the Committee!
> 
Criticism isn't pretty
Specially when your logic's shitty.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 07:40:55 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:40:55 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkrl7m$u2v$2@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com
> <mailto:steve at holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Stephen Hansen wrote:
>     [...]
>     > P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
>     >
> 
>     And here I was, sitting on my hands ... but someone was wrong on the
>     Internet, so D'Aprano had to put them right. Your fatal weakness.
> 
>     Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
>     word,' said Humpty ..."
> 
> 
> This is getting out of hand.
> 
> First, someone thought I was you.
> 
> Now you think I'm D'Aprano.
> 
> I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on. 
> 
> :)
> 
Sorry about that, Bob. But you have to admit your pedantry was rather
D'Aprano-like (I have these feeling I just insulted you both with one
sentence).

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 07:44:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:44:38 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkrlel$u2v$3@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Stephen Hansen:
[...]
>> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it
>> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org
>> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem
>> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>
>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
> 
> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
> 
Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb  9 07:52:02 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:52:02 -0800
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <hkrl3h$u2v$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<89d4fa66-8749-4551-909b-96f9182fd8c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkrl3h$u2v$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002090452g502c30c7jaea48a4e4f821a37@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:38 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Phlip wrote:
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if it was the reason it was rejected, but a seriously
>>> divisive question is whether the path should be a subset of string.
>>
>> OMG that's nothing but the OO "circle vs ellipse" non-question. Glad
>> to see the Committee derailed a perfectly good library over such
>> sophistry.
>>
> That's nothing but the most arrant nonsense, as you would discover if
> you took the trouble to read the discussion on python-dev instead of
> jumping to conclusions.
>
>>> Under ordinary circumstances it would be a poor choice for inheritance
>>> (only a few string methods would be useful fot a pathname), but some
>>> people were fiercely adamant that paths should be passable to open()
>>> as-in (without having to explicity convert to string).
>>
>> That's just silly. To be object-based, you should say path.open('r').
>> fopen() and its ilk are too 1960s...
>>
> What? Are you arguing for "myfile.txt".open('r') to be a valid Python
> construct? If not then surely you can see that paths would require
> different treatment from strings, which was the main thrust of the
> discussion on the dev list.

Based on the context, I'm /pretty/ sure he was (implicitly) talking
about e.g. Path("myfile.txt").open('r').

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From roy at panix.com  Tue Feb  9 08:21:35 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:21:35 -0500
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-D50219.08213509022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
> 
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
> 
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption 
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
> 
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>  - atbash
>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>  - Keyword
>  - Affine
>  - Vigenere
>  - frob (xor)

No pig latin?


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:00:23 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:00:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<7tceiuF94hU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Gregory Ewing wrote:

> It wouldn't just be open() that people would want modified --
> it would be every other function that takes a pathname as
> well.

Then refer to the same argument against implicit type conversions in C+
+.

A ::std::string must call .c_str() to turn into a lowly char*, before
passing into a C function. Advocating for 8 characters of convenience
opens the risk of silent bugs at refactor time.

> I seem to recall another point of contention was whether
> path objects should have methods for accessing the file
> system (opening files, renaming them, etc.) or whether it
> should confine itself to representing and manipulating
> pathnames.

In that case, the package I picked seems to have "erred" on the side
of programmer convenience.

Because the basic file operations (exist, stat, move/rename, copy,
open, chmod, unlink) come as a complete and whole kit, a class should
simply present that kit, insulating against filesystem differences.

> In any case, introducing any kind of path object at this
> late stage of the language's development would result in
> More Than One Way to represent pathnames, with neither of
> them being the obvious choice.

Ah, now we get down to the root of the problem. Because Python is so
stuck on the "one best way to do it" mentality, language bigotry
prevented the Committee from picking from among several equally valid
but non-best options. And after 20 years of growth, Python still has
no Pathname class. What a mature community! C-:

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MoreliaViridis


From tiagokatcipis at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:01:31 2010
From: tiagokatcipis at gmail.com (Tiago Katcipis)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:01:31 -0200
Subject: event handling in pyuthon
In-Reply-To: <581ce2791002082320t2af425ffif36e6683e08cd038@mail.gmail.com>
References: <581ce2791002082320t2af425ffif36e6683e08cd038@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60a9403b1002090601v783534e2q496b499070dbed61@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:20 AM, Bujji <sivaits4u at gmail.com> wrote:

> hi all,
> any event handling mechanisms in python ?
> i want event handler examples in python
>

dont know if it is this that you are looking for:

http://home.gna.org/py-notify/


>
>
> Thanks
> Bujji
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From Carolyn.Nevills at fortbend.k12.tx.us  Tue Feb  9 09:04:53 2010
From: Carolyn.Nevills at fortbend.k12.tx.us (Nevills, Carolyn)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:04:53 -0600
Subject: Plese take me off the mailing list
Message-ID: <C449F727B3D3DA4D87688B34A08D72D80284EC73@EXCH01.District.FBISD.Local>

Good morning,

 

Please take my name off your mailing list .

 

Thanks,

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From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:11:24 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:11:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
Message-ID: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

I have a simple tcp server and client where the server sits and waits
for a message and then processes it, my client sends its first message
to the server.  On the server I receive:

socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
when calling
msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)

My client receives the error:
socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
when calling
msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)

I was working on the server and client over the weekend and sending
and receiving worked fine, I wanted to debug a few things and I get
this when I try to run it (no changes made from what I had on the
weekend)


From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Tue Feb  9 09:17:40 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:17:40 -0600
Subject: Need installer recommendation
References: <6q2rm5htqdj2puinbg9pmkco8o6nhd72h5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2210.1265710287.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ter2n51d16r3j338q8e0bjrlplj8n9vao5@4ax.com>

Thanks you very much for the suggestion.  I will give it a try.  

Since I posted the original question, I have tried PyInstaller.  I am
using Python 2.6.4, which is technically not supported, but it worked
fine for the simple programs I tried, and simple enough even for me.
;)


--
Alan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 09:30:55 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:30:55 -0500
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkrrm0$kq9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> I have a simple tcp server and client where the server sits and waits
> for a message and then processes it, my client sends its first message
> to the server.  On the server I receive:
> 
> socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
> when calling
> msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
> 
> My client receives the error:
> socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
> when calling
> msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
> 
> I was working on the server and client over the weekend and sending
> and receiving worked fine, I wanted to debug a few things and I get
> this when I try to run it (no changes made from what I had on the
> weekend)

My car has this problem. It makes a noise when it rolls along the road.
I've brought the wheel for you to take a look at, can you fix it,
please? ;-)

A little more context might be helpful - at least the error traceback
and the code that makes the socket calls. I presume you are using TCP
judging by the client error message. This implies the server isn't
listening. Have you correctly bound the socket to an IP address and port
before issuing an accept() call?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From misceverything at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:52:26 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:52:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 2:25?pm, David Bolen <db3l.... at gmail.com> wrote:
> T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> writes:
> > I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> > account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> > program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> > I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> > an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> > service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> > trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> > would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!
>
> The LocalSystem account is not, if I recall correctly, permitted to
> access the network.
>
> You'll have to install the service to run under some other account that
> has appropriate access to the network.
>
> -- David

The more testing I do, I think you may be right..I was able to get it
to work under a local admin account, and it worked under debug mode
(which would also have been running as this user).  I'm a bit
surprised though - I was under the assumption that LocalSystem had
rights to access the network?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 09:56:41 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:56:41 +0100
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7177A9.30809@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> I have a simple tcp server and client where the server sits and waits
> for a message and then processes it, my client sends its first message
> to the server.  On the server I receive:
>
> socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
> when calling
> msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
>
> My client receives the error:
> socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
> when calling
> msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
>
> I was working on the server and client over the weekend and sending
> and receiving worked fine, I wanted to debug a few things and I get
> this when I try to run it (no changes made from what I had on the
> weekend)
>   
Unless you want to know more about net coding, I would suggest to use 
libraries for that.
Pyro or xmlrpclib are among the most used.

Then if you have any connection problem, that's because there is a 
connection problem. Not because you mess up with your net code.

JM




From python-url at phaseit.net  Tue Feb  9 10:03:02 2010
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:03:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb  9)
Message-ID: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>

QOTW:  "You see? That's what I like about the Python community: people even
apologise for apologising :)" - Tim Golden
     http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/858d1c31d0c2adff


    The third alpha version of Python 2.7 is ready for testing:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/6f49dacfe8759508/
    
    How to enumerate all possible strings matching a given regular expression:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/1b78346c6661ac4f/
    
    Which language features do you like most?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/599b3c9772421ece/
    
    Implementing a two-dimensional array in a simple way seems to actually
    be more efficient than other, more sophisticated alternatives:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/55e595d6dc4ca3f4/
    
    The new GIL (to be implemented in Python 3.2) will provide less overhead,
    especially in multicore CPUs:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/586ef2d3685fa7ea/
    
    In Python 3, 'exec' inside a function does not have the same effect
    as before:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/7a046e4ede9c310a/
    
    Using Queue objects to feed and synchronize several worker threads:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/32256dd608c9c02/
    
    New generation IDEs should provide much better and integrated
    refactoring tools:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e019614ea149e7bd/
    
    There is no module in the standard library to handle filesystem paths
    in an OO way - but why?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonf580fb3763208425ece/
    
    A "History Channel" special: how the way a TAB key was interpreted
    changed over time
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python82d9181fcd31ffea3f4/
    
    After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or
    Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonfd36962c4970ac487ea/

    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" site:
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the intelligence
    to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
    appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
    enabled:
	http://www.nullege.com

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:20:33 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:20:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

I found my car ;)

here's the server:

class commServer:
    """Class to hold a tcp server and interact with with it
    allows for a wrapper around socket class to keep code clean"""

    def __init__ (self, host, hostid, port, buff =1024):
        self.host = host
        self.hostid = hostid #id of the server
        self.port = port
        self.buffer = buff
        self.socket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.conn = None
        self.addr = None

    def bindServ(self):
        """Connect to the server specified by self.host, self.port"""
        self.socket.bind((self.host, self.port))
    def closeConn(self):
        """Disconnect from the server connected to"""
        self.conn.close()
    def listen(self):
        self.socket.listen(1)
    def accept(self):
        self.conn, self.addr = self.socket.accept()

    #lets you send a string msg to the server
    def sendMSG(self, msg):
        self.conn.send(msg)
    #lets you receive data from the server
    def recvMSG(self):
        msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
        if msg == "": #if the client disconnected let's not throw
            return False
        else:
            return msg


class Negotiator:
    """Negotiator for the server handles all communication with the
client to
    verify the server and prepare the file the client wants for
download"""
    def __init__(self, host, hostid, port, rsa_key):
        self.server = commServer(host,hostid,port)

    def Negotiate(self):
        self.server.bindServ()
        self.server.listen()
        self.server.accept()

        #Plan on being asked for server confirmation
        clmsg = self.server.recvMSG()  # it fails right here on the
server


calling the Server Negotiator as:
host = "127.0.0.1"
port = 8005
HOSTID = a string
key = an RSA key
servernegotiator = Negotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
if servernegotiator.Negotiate() == False:
    print "something went wrong"
print "Done"



for the client it is:
class commClient:
    """Class to hold a tcp client and interact with with it
    allows for a wrapper around socket class to keep code clean"""

    def __init__ (self, host, hostid, port, buff =1024):
        self.host = host
        self.hostid = hostid #id of the server
        self.port = port
        self.buffer = buff
        self.socket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
socket.SOCK_STREAM)

    def connectServ(self):
        """Connect to the server specified by self.host, self.port"""
        self.socket.connect((self.host, self.port))
    def disconnServ(self):
        """Disconnect from the server connected to"""
        self.socket.close()

    #lets you send a string msg to the server
    def sendMSG(self, msg):
        self.socket.send(msg)
    #lets you receive data from the server
    def recvMSG(self):
        msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
        if msg == "": #if the server disconnected let's not throw
something later
            return False
        else:
            return msg



class Negotiator:
    """The Negotiator handles all communications and message handling
    necessary for verifying the server, and that the file is available
to
    download"""
    def __init__(self, host, hostid, port, rsa_key):
        """client should be a commClient object that has not been
connected
        to the server."""
        self.client = commClient(host, hostid, port)
        self.clientKey = rsa_key
        self.serverKey = None
        self.CScipher = None #AES cipher for client -> server
        self.SCcipher = None #AES cipher for server -> client
        self.CShalves = None #tuple for random halves by client
        self.SChalves = None #tuple for random halves by server
        self.file = None


    def Negotiate(self, fname):
        """Contact the server, verify the server,
        negotiates for a file to be downloaded by the client.  It
returns
        the file name to be downloaded, and the cipher to decrypt
it."""

        self.client.connectServ()
        print "connected"

        #tell the server you want to connect
        clmsg = message(CONN, (self.client.getHost(),
                               self.client.getHostID())) #message acts
as a wrapper around a message type and the data for the type
        self.client.sendMSG(clmsg.getSendable())    # here is were it
fails

the Negotiator is called as:
host = "127.0.0.1"
port = 8005
HOSTID is the same string as before
key is an RSA key
clientnegotiator = Negotiator(host, HostID, port, key)
filename = clientnegotiator.Negotiate("hostid")

the stack traces are:
Server side:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Server.py", line 17, in <module>
    if servernegotiator.Negotiate() == False:
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ServerNegotiator.py", line 184, in Negotiate
    clmsg = self.server.recvMSG()
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ServerNegotiator.py", line 67, in recvMSG
    msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected

Client Side:
 File "Client.py", line 17, in <module>
    filename = clientnegotiator.Negotiate("hostid")
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ClientNegotiator.py", line 209, in Negotiate
    srvmsg = self.client.recvMSG()
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ClientNegotiator.py", line 55, in recvMSG
    msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer




From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:21:28 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:21:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<4576331d-fb60-499e-aff6-f61a4c0fc01e@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cb24792a-6dc0-44d1-a08e-77732c5439f1@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 12:15?am, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> You may be able to monkey patch an OrderedDict into the PlistParser.
> Here's an untested stab at it:
>
> ? ? from collections import OrderedDict
> ? ? import plistlib
> ? ? plistlib._InteralDict = OrderedDict

Genius! After fixing the misspelled InteralDict I got this:

from collections import OrderedDict
import plistlib
plistlib._InternalDict = OrderedDict
plistlib.readPlist('/path/to/some.plist')

--> OrderedDict([('List', 'of'), ('tuples', 'in'), ('plist',
'order')])

So thank you for that [somewhat contorted] solution. (PyN00b): Now how
do I extract the list from the function?

-- Gnarlie


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb  9 10:23:59 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:23:59 +0100
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<7tceiuF94hU1@mid.individual.net>
	<d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b717e07$0$14666$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Phlip a ?crit :
> Gregory Ewing wrote:
> 
>> In any case, introducing any kind of path object at this
>> late stage of the language's development would result in
>> More Than One Way to represent pathnames, with neither of
>> them being the obvious choice.
> 
> Ah, now we get down to the root of the problem. Because Python is so
> stuck on the "one best way to do it"
> mentality, language bigotry
> prevented the Committee from picking from among several equally valid
> but non-best options.

You failed to actually _read_ what you're answering to. Try again. Using 
your brain, this time.



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:27:06 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:27:06 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090727t23ccd46fy9289ed56d93ce929@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> Right.
>
> "pass by value" is a lower level notion.
>
> And as you show below, in the paragraph marked [1], it can be used to
> describe call by sharing very succinctly and precisely, just as I did... ;-)


No. There's nothing at all succinct or precise about either "value" or
"reference" when speaking of programming languages, and using both together
just compounds that. They are loaded words. The phrase "call my value where
value is an object reference" is not clear, not obvious, not helpful. It
requires far too much explanation of every single word there, depending on
the background of who you are speaking to, to explain how it does not
exactly use any of the words in a way which the person may be expecting, and
making sure they understand that it does not imply anything that those words
usually imply.

I'm not even going to bother further-- I shouldn't have to begin with-- your
entire post is full of arguments with no more weight then, "I say this means
that, and its clearer" with absolutely no regard for the fact that all of
these words have weight and meaning to the world outside of your head.

Python has objects, and objects have names. Objects are never copied
implicitly, and objects can be referred to by many names in many places,
thus you may share those objects as you see fit. Some objects you may
change, some objects you may not. An object exists so long as someone has a
name for it. Period, end of line.

That's the mental model and passing model that is valid in Python. There are
no "copyable references", because a reference is a 'thing' and copying it is
an action. In Python there are simply objects. That's where the abstraction
begins and ends.

What is so obvious, precise, succinct and clear to YOU is mixing loaded
terms with a implications and semantic expectations from countless other
languages and sources in computer science. If you want to think of things
that way in your head, then by all means, do so.

But it doesn't make it right, and further arguing is clearly just not going
to do any good. You're insisting on using imprecise terminology common to
other languages in complicated ways together to describe very simple things.

Python has objects, objects are given various names.

It helps no one to try to artificially create an abstraction above that
which the language provides as you are doing.

I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it as a
>> mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org <
>> http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem to
>> get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>
>>
>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
>>
>
> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>

I participate with the community via python-list; I take no responsibility
for the deficiency of any particular usenet server which may or may not
mirror python-list accurately. Usenet's a fuzzy thing like that, with all
the servers cross-sharing and messages bouncing around. I have no need for
its complexity and unbounded freedom.

I'm subscribed to a mailing list, albeit a high-volume one. That its
cross-mirrored with a usenet group is something I have no control over, and
usenet is inherently beyond control. Its great that Gmane provides a means
of making usenet discussion groups accessible as mailing lists, but I don't
see any reason to bother.

--S
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From ericthecyclist at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:27:39 2010
From: ericthecyclist at gmail.com (CyclingGuy)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:27:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PostgreSQL driver for Python applications that supports bytea 
	correctly?
Message-ID: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Can anyone recommend a PostgreSQL driver for Python that supports
selecting and inserting bytea types?
I'm not looking to write server functions in Python, just client
applications.

Thank you
Eric.


From mgedmin at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:32:54 2010
From: mgedmin at gmail.com (Marius Gedminas)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:32:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 9)
References: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <c3716b15-6735-4308-8724-be8dff3661d1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

The last three URLs are malformed:

On Feb 9, 5:03?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <python-... at phaseit.net> wrote:
> ? ? There is no module in the standard library to handle filesystem paths
> ? ? in an OO way - but why?
> ? ? ? ?http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonf580fb3763208425ece/
>
> ? ? A "History Channel" special: how the way a TAB key was interpreted
> ? ? changed over time
> ? ? ? ?http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python82d9181fcd31ffea3f4/
>
> ? ? After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or
> ? ? Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
> ? ? ? ?http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonfd36962c4970ac487ea/

Any chance of getting them fixed?

Regards,
--
Marius Gedminas


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:34:57 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:34:57 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkrl7m$u2v$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkrl7m$u2v$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090734v324f8b5bic6d2bc675bce8cbe@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
> This is getting out of hand.
> >
> > First, someone thought I was you.
> >
> > Now you think I'm D'Aprano.
> >
> > I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on.
> >
> > :)
> >
> Sorry about that, Bob. But you have to admit your pedantry was rather
> D'Aprano-like (I have these feeling I just insulted you both with one
> sentence).
>

I'm not sure how I feel about the word /pedantry/ to describe what I have to
say (in fact, I sort of thought it might be better applied to the other side
of the discussion), but I don't see anything terribly insulting with being
confused with the other Ste[ph|v]en's floating around python-list, even
allowing for blowhard tendencies we may or may not have. :)

Even if I'm the only one who can spell his name right. :) <wink>

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:37:42 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:37:42 -0800
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 9)
In-Reply-To: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
References: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090737o13b1fd48p8b688d5640eefead@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Gabriel Genellina <python-url at phaseit.net>wrote:

>    After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or
>    Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
>        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonfd36962c4970ac487ea/


LOL.

Can we set up some sort of "argh" filter on python-list, analogous to a spam
filter, which detects these threads and shunts them to
python-list-ohnoyoudidnt at python.org?

Because avoiding them is -hard-.


--S
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From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:37:50 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:37:50 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>

> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
>
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
>
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>  - atbash
>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>  - Keyword
>  - Affine
>  - Vigenere
>  - frob (xor)
>
> and others.
>
> DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
> used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
> may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used
> where strong encryption is required.
>
> obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.
>
> Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.

Great, these packages are badly needed!

If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
think.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:47:35 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:47:35 -0800
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
In-Reply-To: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090747w39f4ec30i910557c79a8dcb29@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:54 AM, George Sakkis <george.sakkis at gmail.com>wrote:

> So I'm wondering if there is a consensus on when it's better to (hard)
> patch, monkey patch or just try to work around a third party package
> that doesn't do exactly what one would like. Does it have mainly to do
> with the reason for the patch (e.g. fixing a bug, modifying behavior,
> adding missing feature), the given package (size, complexity,
> maturity, developer responsiveness), something else or there are no
> general rules and one should decide on a case-by-case basis ?
>

IMHO, monkey-patching is one of those things that you shouldn't really
mention in the public without looking both ways, leaning in, and lowering
your voice.

Its not that its -bad- exactly, and its really not terribly kinky or
obscene, but its something that you still shouldn't exactly do in polite
company, y'know?

There's no guarantees it'll work forever, so its not the safest practice,
but if you're willing to accept the burden (and ideally have a unit test
proving that it still functions after an update to such a package), then...
consenting adults! Go ahead.

If you can get the upstream package to make such a thing not necessary,
that's ideal-er, of course.

--S
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 10:48:39 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:48:39 +0100
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7183D7.2010805@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> I found my car ;)
>
> here's the server:
>
> class commServer:
>     """Class to hold a tcp server and interact with with it
>     allows for a wrapper around socket class to keep code clean"""
>
>     def __init__ (self, host, hostid, port, buff =1024):
>         self.host = host
>         self.hostid = hostid #id of the server
>         self.port = port
>         self.buffer = buff
>         self.socket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
> socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>         self.conn = None
>         self.addr = None
>
>     def bindServ(self):
>         """Connect to the server specified by self.host, self.port"""
>         self.socket.bind((self.host, self.port))
>     def closeConn(self):
>         """Disconnect from the server connected to"""
>         self.conn.close()
>     def listen(self):
>         self.socket.listen(1)
>     def accept(self):
>         self.conn, self.addr = self.socket.accept()
>
>     #lets you send a string msg to the server
>     def sendMSG(self, msg):
>         self.conn.send(msg)
>     #lets you receive data from the server
>     def recvMSG(self):
>         msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
>         if msg == "": #if the client disconnected let's not throw
>             return False
>         else:
>             return msg
>
>
> class Negotiator:
>     """Negotiator for the server handles all communication with the
> client to
>     verify the server and prepare the file the client wants for
> download"""
>     def __init__(self, host, hostid, port, rsa_key):
>         self.server = commServer(host,hostid,port)
>
>     def Negotiate(self):
>         self.server.bindServ()
>         self.server.listen()
>         self.server.accept()
>
>         #Plan on being asked for server confirmation
>         clmsg = self.server.recvMSG()  # it fails right here on the
> server
>
>
> calling the Server Negotiator as:
> host = "127.0.0.1"
> port = 8005
> HOSTID = a string
> key = an RSA key
> servernegotiator = Negotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> if servernegotiator.Negotiate() == False:
>     print "something went wrong"
> print "Done"
>
>
>
> for the client it is:
> class commClient:
>     """Class to hold a tcp client and interact with with it
>     allows for a wrapper around socket class to keep code clean"""
>
>     def __init__ (self, host, hostid, port, buff =1024):
>         self.host = host
>         self.hostid = hostid #id of the server
>         self.port = port
>         self.buffer = buff
>         self.socket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
> socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>
>     def connectServ(self):
>         """Connect to the server specified by self.host, self.port"""
>         self.socket.connect((self.host, self.port))
>     def disconnServ(self):
>         """Disconnect from the server connected to"""
>         self.socket.close()
>
>     #lets you send a string msg to the server
>     def sendMSG(self, msg):
>         self.socket.send(msg)
>     #lets you receive data from the server
>     def recvMSG(self):
>         msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
>         if msg == "": #if the server disconnected let's not throw
> something later
>             return False
>         else:
>             return msg
>
>
>
> class Negotiator:
>     """The Negotiator handles all communications and message handling
>     necessary for verifying the server, and that the file is available
> to
>     download"""
>     def __init__(self, host, hostid, port, rsa_key):
>         """client should be a commClient object that has not been
> connected
>         to the server."""
>         self.client = commClient(host, hostid, port)
>         self.clientKey = rsa_key
>         self.serverKey = None
>         self.CScipher = None #AES cipher for client -> server
>         self.SCcipher = None #AES cipher for server -> client
>         self.CShalves = None #tuple for random halves by client
>         self.SChalves = None #tuple for random halves by server
>         self.file = None
>
>
>     def Negotiate(self, fname):
>         """Contact the server, verify the server,
>         negotiates for a file to be downloaded by the client.  It
> returns
>         the file name to be downloaded, and the cipher to decrypt
> it."""
>
>         self.client.connectServ()
>         print "connected"
>
>         #tell the server you want to connect
>         clmsg = message(CONN, (self.client.getHost(),
>                                self.client.getHostID())) #message acts
> as a wrapper around a message type and the data for the type
>         self.client.sendMSG(clmsg.getSendable())    # here is were it
> fails
>
> the Negotiator is called as:
> host = "127.0.0.1"
> port = 8005
> HOSTID is the same string as before
> key is an RSA key
> clientnegotiator = Negotiator(host, HostID, port, key)
> filename = clientnegotiator.Negotiate("hostid")
>
> the stack traces are:
> Server side:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Server.py", line 17, in <module>
>     if servernegotiator.Negotiate() == False:
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ServerNegotiator.py", line 184, in Negotiate
>     clmsg = self.server.recvMSG()
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ServerNegotiator.py", line 67, in recvMSG
>     msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
> socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
>
> Client Side:
>  File "Client.py", line 17, in <module>
>     filename = clientnegotiator.Negotiate("hostid")
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ClientNegotiator.py", line 209, in Negotiate
>     srvmsg = self.client.recvMSG()
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ClientNegotiator.py", line 55, in recvMSG
>     msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
> socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
>
>
>   
http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 10:53:35 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:53:35 +0100
Subject: PostgreSQL driver for Python applications that supports bytea
	correctly?
In-Reply-To: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7184FF.7090405@sequans.com>

CyclingGuy wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a PostgreSQL driver for Python that supports
> selecting and inserting bytea types?
> I'm not looking to write server functions in Python, just client
> applications.
>
> Thank you
> Eric.
>   
Did you try any ?
I know about pgdb, and since it has a function called escape_bytea it 
may support this type...

JM


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 10:53:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:53:52 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002090727t23ccd46fy9289ed56d93ce929@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002090727t23ccd46fy9289ed56d93ce929@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hks0hi$7t0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no
> <mailto:alfps at start.no>> wrote:
> 
>     Right.
> 
>     "pass by value" is a lower level notion.
> 
>     And as you show below, in the paragraph marked [1], it can be used
>     to describe call by sharing very succinctly and precisely, just as I
>     did... ;-)
> 
> 
> No. There's nothing at all succinct or precise about either "value" or
> "reference" when speaking of programming languages, and using both
> together just compounds that. They are loaded words. The phrase "call my
> value where value is an object reference" is not clear, not obvious, not
> helpful. It requires far too much explanation of every single word
> there, depending on the background of who you are speaking to, to
> explain how it does not exactly use any of the words in a way which the
> person may be expecting, and making sure they understand that it does
> not imply anything that those words usually imply.
> 
> I'm not even going to bother further-- I shouldn't have to begin with--
> your entire post is full of arguments with no more weight then, "I say
> this means that, and its clearer" with absolutely no regard for the fact
> that all of these words have weight and meaning to the world outside of
> your head.
> 
[several paragraphs-worth of bothering further]

So you didn't believe me when I said

> Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
> word,' said Humpty ..."

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:54:13 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:54:13 -0800
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090754r37a63ef2y2e02e47b4179bbeb@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:39 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have thought funny things
> If we think all languages are like a family
> I could draft them like this (Python base)
>
> C is Python's Mom
>
I can see this.


> C++ : Dad
>
Ick, no. C++ is the dirty Uncle who gets touchy with us in inappropriate
ways.


> Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents
>
o.O


> C#   : Uncle

Java : Aunt

 If C# and Java are our parents siblings and we're older by quite a bit then
them, then... that implies some sort of shady things in our family tree!
Maybe Grandpappy married a bombshell just out of high school and managed to
knock her up.

Then again, we did take some stuff from both. So maybe C# and Java are our
neighbors, and our sister had an affair with one of them and got knocked up,
and so we got the "logging" package and decorators and.

Er.

I fail at this analogy.

Ruby: Cousin
>
I can see this.


> Perl : Girlfriend
>
You seriously need to duck and run for cover at this one. Someone on one of
our sides is going to throw a rock at you now. :)

--S
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:55:47 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:55:47 +0100
Subject: timer for a function
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081844h5a280e94k794ddc5d0df77610@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hkhk45$jvp$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081844h5a280e94k794ddc5d0df77610@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hks0g7$8nk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
>     Question: how can I do that? Use another threaded class? Is there
>     some other way?

First of all, thanks for answer!

> What OS? Does this have to be OS-independant? 

Err, sorry -- this is Linux/UNIX only.

> Are you using more then 
> one transport/SSLClient in your process and you want to just kill one 
> (and any of its child threads), or are you doing one per process?

I'm using multiple threads myself, one per IP basically, which in turn 
call paramiko calls, which itself is threaded.

> If you want to terminate -all- threads your process is running in a 
> given timeframe, using a SIGALRM in the signal module will do it, I 
> believe-- provided you don't need to support windows. 

Thanks, that's still useful! Although...

1. if I don't install signal handler for SIGALRM I get this printed on 
the console at the end of execution:

Alarm clock

Although it does seem to close cleanly.

Is there any way to suppress this message?


2. If I do install signal handler for SIGALRM, I'm back at square one:

Exception in thread Thread-25 (most likely raised during interpreter 
shutdown):
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/threading.py", line 442, in __bootstrap
   File "./cssh.py", line 1003, in run
   File "./cssh.py", line 739, in ssh_connect_for_scp
   File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/paramiko/transport.py", line 1006, 
in connect
   File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/paramiko/transport.py", line 1382, 
in _log
exceptions.TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
Unhandled exception in thread started by

This happens even though I surround "connect" (line 1006) with catching 
all Exceptions:

try:
     self.trans.connect(hostkey=None, username=self.username, pkey = pkey)
except Exception, e:
     self.conerror = str(e)

	

>I had a contextlib 
> manager do that for awhile. If you only want to terminate one (and its 
> child-threads)... you're out of luck, I think. The only way to terminate 
> a thread in Python is with conditions/events/whatever and the thread 
> cooperating and exiting on its own.

I will probably have to get the library author look at this.

Regards,
mk



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:59:13 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:59:13 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied
In-Reply-To: <hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090759s3c94f2a8wd3ccb18b8faa9012@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:38 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

> I'm using McAffee. I see it was pythonw.exe blocked in red. There are
> several choices: Allow Access, Allow Outboubnd only
> Block (current), Remove Prgrm permission, Learn More.
>
> Outbound only seem reasonable, but why does the blocking keep returning
> every many hours, or maybe when I reboot, which I've done several times
> today?


I can't help you with McAfee, contact their support forums.

As for outbound vs anything else... pythonw.exe needs to accept connections
at least on the local machine. No idea how to get McAfee to allow that.
Outbound may not be sufficient, you may need just Allow.

--S
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From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:07:42 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:07:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<4576331d-fb60-499e-aff6-f61a4c0fc01e@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <663dd630-f029-4b6f-909e-52ce79adbbd1@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 12:15?am, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> You may be able to monkey patch an OrderedDict into the PlistParser.
> Here's an untested stab at it:
> ? ? from collections import OrderedDict
> ? ? import plistlib
> ? ? plistlib._InteralDict = OrderedDict


Genius! After fixing the misspelled InteralDict I got this:

from collections import OrderedDict
import plistlib
plistlib._InternalDict = OrderedDict
plistlib.readPlist('/path/to/some.plist')
--> OrderedDict([('List', 'of'), ('tuples', 'in'), ('plist',
'order')])

So thank you for that [somewhat contorted] solution.
To extract the list I am saying this:

ordered=plistlib.readPlist(path)
print(list(ordered))  # only a list of keys
print(ordered[list(ordered)[0]])

However this seems too laborious. is there an easier way?

-- Gnarlie



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 11:10:56 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:10:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
Message-ID: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>

What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:

   start = time.clock()
   [stuff being timed]
   stop  = time.clock()

   delta = stop-start


However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
MS-bashing here]

Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
(say in the 1-10ms range)?

Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
that time.clock() works right?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! If I felt any more
                                  at               SOPHISTICATED I would DIE
                               visi.com            of EMBARRASSMENT!


From rodrick.brown at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:13:35 2010
From: rodrick.brown at gmail.com (rodrick brown)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:13:35 -0500
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53AA95DE-1589-466E-BEE3-7B95728C766E@gmail.com>

Don't forget his little brother Go!

Sent from my iPhone 3GS.

On Feb 8, 2010, at 8:39 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have thought funny things
> If we think all languages are like a family
> I could draft them like this (Python base)
>
> C is Python's Mom
> C++ : Dad
> Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents
> C#   : Uncle
> Java : Ant
> Ruby: Cousin
> Perl : Girlfriend
>
>
> What u guys think? XD
> -- 
> Passion is my style
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Feb  9 11:21:17 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:21:17 +0000
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 9)
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002090737o13b1fd48p8b688d5640eefead@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
	<7a9c25c21002090737o13b1fd48p8b688d5640eefead@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B718B7D.8050603@timgolden.me.uk>

On 09/02/2010 15:37, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Gabriel Genellina<python-url at phaseit.net>wrote:
>
>>     After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or
>>     Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
>>         http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonfd36962c4970ac487ea/
>
>
> LOL.
>
> Can we set up some sort of "argh" filter on python-list, analogous to a spam
> filter, which detects these threads and shunts them to
> python-list-ohnoyoudidnt at python.org?
>
> Because avoiding them is -hard-.

Oh no it isn't!

(Sorry; couldn't resist)

TJG


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:29:42 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:29:42 -0600
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
>>
>> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
>>
>> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
>> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>>
>> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>>   - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>>   - atbash
>>   - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>>   - Railfence (encryption only)
>>   - Keyword
>>   - Affine
>>   - Vigenere
>>   - frob (xor)
>>
>> and others.
>>
>> DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
>> used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
>> may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used
>> where strong encryption is required.
>>
>> obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.
>>
>> Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.
>
> Great, these packages are badly needed!
>
> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
> think.

Why?

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From jpahonthe at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:33:32 2010
From: jpahonthe at gmail.com (r. clayton)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:33:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b25d2055-06a1-478e-b687-e702deb7ec1f@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>


> http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html
>
> JM

each time a handler is spawned is it client specific? in other words
when two clients send something to the server do handlers spawn for
each of them or does everything just go into a single handler?


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:36:25 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:36:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>


> http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html
>
> JM

each time a handler is spawned is it client specific? in other words
when two clients send something to the server do handlers spawn for
each of them or does everything just go into a single handler?


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb  9 11:49:21 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:49:21 +0100
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

On Feb 8, 2010, at 8:39 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have thought funny things
>> If we think all languages are like a family

Then it would be a very incestuous family fore sure.

>> I could draft them like this (Python base)
>>
>> C is Python's Mom
>> C++ : Dad

Not that much C++ in Python, IMHO. If that's for the OO part, then the 
closer to Python's object model I can think of is javascript.

Historically, Python comes from ABC, which itself comes from SETL.

>> Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents

Assembly ? What about binary machine code then ?-)

>> C#   : Uncle
>> Java : Ant

Interesting typo here !-)

Hmmm... Python predates both C# and Java. Ok, technically speaking 
nothing prevents an uncle or aunt from being younger than their nephews, 
and I even saw the case a couple time - but that's far from being the 
common case.

>> Ruby: Cousin
>> Perl : Girlfriend

Then it's kind of a very passionate love-hate relationship - bordering 
on pathological FWIW !-)

Now you forgot the whole Lisp / ML heritage - most FP stuff -, and of 
course Simula and Smalltalk.



From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb  9 11:51:15 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:51:15 -0500
Subject: PostgreSQL driver for Python applications that supports bytea 
	correctly?
In-Reply-To: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100209115115.fd6bd546.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:27:39 -0800 (PST)
CyclingGuy <ericthecyclist at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a PostgreSQL driver for Python that supports
> selecting and inserting bytea types?
> I'm not looking to write server functions in Python, just client
> applications.

http://www.PyGreSQL.org/

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb  9 11:56:14 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:56:14 -0800
Subject: Programing family
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xaavi5owh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:
> Now you forgot the whole Lisp / ML heritage - most FP stuff -, and of
> course Simula and Smalltalk.

http://i.imgur.com/1gF1j.jpg


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:57:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:57:17 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hks0hi$7t0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002090727t23ccd46fy9289ed56d93ce929@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hks0hi$7t0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090857r2ff4ee51k899c5451e552cf25@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>
> [several paragraphs-worth of bothering further]
>
> So you didn't believe me when I said
>
> > Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
> > word,' said Humpty ..."
>

It was early, I was barely awake. That paragraph was originally the last
one.

Apparently some extra bother had to work itself out. I'm pretty sure I got
the last of it squeezed out.

I swear I /wanted/ to believe you.

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:06:42 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:06:42 -0800
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
In-Reply-To: <663dd630-f029-4b6f-909e-52ce79adbbd1@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<4576331d-fb60-499e-aff6-f61a4c0fc01e@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<663dd630-f029-4b6f-909e-52ce79adbbd1@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090906ya5c10c3rb57c4eb19203f00@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> wrote:

> To extract the list I am saying this:
>
> ordered=plistlib.readPlist(path)
> print(list(ordered))  # only a list of keys
> print(ordered[list(ordered)[0]])
>
> However this seems too laborious. is there an easier way?
>

I'm not familiar with plistlib or what you're trying to do-- it'd help if
you provided the output from those print's, as I don't have a plist on hand
which I can use to test it out and see what you're seeing.

But, is "ordered.keys()" or "ordered.items()" what you're trying to get? Or,
ordered[ordered.keys()[0]] to get the first one? Or "for key in ordered:
print(ordered[key])" which will get the keys in order and print the values
according to that order?

Basically, I'm not sure what you're actually trying to do.

--S
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From half.italian at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:09:50 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:09:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f6a3ecf4-427e-45c4-90ab-332e2aff7874@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 6:52?am, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 2:25?pm, David Bolen <db3l.... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> writes:
> > > I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> > > account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> > > program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> > > I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> > > an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> > > service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> > > trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> > > would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!
>
> > The LocalSystem account is not, if I recall correctly, permitted to
> > access the network.
>
> > You'll have to install the service to run under some other account that
> > has appropriate access to the network.
>
> > -- David
>
> The more testing I do, I think you may be right..I was able to get it
> to work under a local admin account, and it worked under debug mode
> (which would also have been running as this user). ?I'm a bit
> surprised though - I was under the assumption that LocalSystem had
> rights to access the network?

You really need a way to see the error you are getting.  If you can't
get it to show you the error in the shell, set up some logging to a
file, and find the error that way.  I think the user can access the
network just fine, but that maybe plink.exe is not in his path or some
such thing.

Find the error!


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:14:26 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:14:26 -0800
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
In-Reply-To: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090914r68310597se5541213279252fd@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>wrote:

> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
> MS-bashing here]
>
> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>
> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
> that time.clock() works right?


The only time I ever had to do that, I just grabbed:
http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk/Tools/pybench/systimes.py

HTH,
--S
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  9 12:25:48 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:25:48 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqqnd$hbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2199.1265689553.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkqqnd$hbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hks5qn$umd$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/9/2010 12:12 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> As far as the language spec is concerned the argument passing mechanism
> seems to me to be identical to assignments, not just "very much like".

Except for the cross-namespace nature of the assignment, yes. Glad you 
agree.

> Your phrase "or objects derived therefrom" seems to imply that immutable
> objects can be copied

No. Given

def f(*args, **kwds): print(args, kwds)

the objects bound to args and kwds are a tuple and dict *derived* from 
(that collect together) the objects passed.

Terry Jan Reedy



From thomasharrisonnelson at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:39:27 2010
From: thomasharrisonnelson at gmail.com (Thomas Nelson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:39:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mac install
Message-ID: <a73f2cb2-d748-4ddb-a84a-ff2e6d14149f@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I downloaded the 3.1.1 dmg from http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.1.1/
but when I run it I get the error "The folowing install step failed:
run postflight script for python documentation."  The bugs list has
this bug at http://bugs.python.org/issue6934 but it's described as
fixed.  Is it only fixed for the source version?  Where should I go to
install?

Thanks,
Tom


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb  9 12:40:03 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Feb 2010 09:40:03 -0800
Subject: pyclutter anyone?
References: <4B6BD072.4080006@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1985.1265390331.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hks6lj$81u$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1985.1265390331.28905.python-list at python.org>,
donn  <donn.ingle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>No one uses pyClutter?

Never heard of it before.

>I have some code, it does not work, but maybe this will start to help 
>solve the problem:

You need to provide some more detail than "does not work".  Perhaps this
will help:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb  9 12:47:39 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Feb 2010 09:47:39 -0800
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2238.1265733013.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hks73r$o2t$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2238.1265733013.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Robert Kern  <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>>
>>> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
>>> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
>>> used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
>>> may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used
>>> where strong encryption is required.
>>
>> Great, these packages are badly needed!
>>
>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>> think.
>
>Why?

You missed the white-on-white smiley, I think.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 12:49:51 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:49:51 +0100
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B71A03F.8070803@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
>> http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html
>>
>> JM
>>     
>
> each time a handler is spawned is it client specific? in other words
> when two clients send something to the server do handlers spawn for
> each of them or does everything just go into a single handler?
>   
docstring of the example:

    """
    The RequestHandler class for our server.

    It is instantiated once per connection to the server, and must
    override the handle() method to implement communication to the
    client.
    """

If you want data persistant over connections, store them in your handler 
class.

class MyTCPHandler(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    cnxNumber = 0
    def handle(self):
        # self.request is the TCP socket connected to the client
        self.data = self.request.recv(1024).strip()
        # just send back the same data, but upper-cased
        self.request.send(self.data.upper())
        cnxNumber +=1  
	print "handling connection N?%s" % cnxNumber

JM


From ricaraoz at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:00:36 2010
From: ricaraoz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_Ar=E1oz?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:00:36 -0300
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
Message-ID: <4B71A2C4.1060507@gmail.com>

Bruce C. Baker wrote:
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message 
> news:mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list at python.org...
>   
>> Iterators, and in particular, generators.
>> A killer feature.
>>
>> Terry Jan Reedy
>>
>>     
>
> Neither unique to Python.
>
> And then're the other killer "features" superfluous ":"s and rigid 
> formatting! 
>   

Hmmmm.... Let's see..... nope, I could not find the "unique" word
neither in the subject or in the cited text.
I've had a strange feeling last weeks.
Two possible explanations come to mind :
        a) The list is under a concerted troll attack.
        b) Idiocy is contagious.

I wonder which...

P.S. : will the indentation of the choices be noticed? Shouldn't I put
them within braces?

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From salman.haq at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:02:45 2010
From: salman.haq at gmail.com (slmnhq)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:02:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Incorrect 'Host' header when using urllib2 to access a server by its 
	IPv6 link-local address
Message-ID: <6f17b819-0420-41d2-8875-f087d8c392d8@c28g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

I have a snippet of Python code that makes an HTTP GET request to an
Apache web server (v 2.2.3) using urllib2. The server responds with an
HTTP 400 error presumably because of a malformed 'Host' header.

The snippet is quite simple: it creates a url based on IPv6 string
literal syntax, then creates a Request object and calls urlopen.

def via_urllib2 (addr="fe80::207:b8ff:fedc:636b", scope_id="eth4"):
    host = "[%s%%%s]:80" % (addr, scope_id) # "[fe80::207:b8ff:fedc:
636b%eth4]"
    url = "http://"+host+"/system/status/"
    req = urllib2.Request(url)
    f = urllib2.urlopen(req)
    print f.read()

The urlopen() throws: HTTPError: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request

The Apache error_log reports "Client sent malformed Host header".

Googling for "apache Client sent malformed Host header ipv6" I came
across the following bug:

https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=35122

The problem is that Apache does not handle the scope id in the host
header field very well and reports a 400 error. So I tried to override
that field by creating my own header in the above snippet:

   ...
   req.add_header('Host', "["+urllib.quote(addr)+"]")
   ...

Now the header is simply 'Host: [fe80::207:b8ff:fedc:636b]" (notice
the lack of "%eth4"). However, this still results in the same error.

I know this is not a problem with urllib2 per say, but I'm posting
here in the hope that some Python coder may be knowledgeable enough
about HTTP and IPv6 that they might be able to provide an answer.

Thank you,

Salman


From python at rcn.com  Tue Feb  9 13:03:25 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:03:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
References: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6f5a299b-66a9-43ae-acf7-6d6450f7f240@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 12:54?am, George Sakkis <george.sak... at gmail.com> wrote:
> So I'm wondering if there is a consensus on when it's better to (hard)
> patch, monkey patch or just try to work around a third party package
> that doesn't do exactly what one would like. Does it have mainly to do
> with the reason for the patch (e.g. fixing a bug, modifying behavior,
> adding missing feature), the given package (size, complexity,
> maturity, developer responsiveness), something else or there are no
> general rules and one should decide on a case-by-case basis ?

I agree that practically beats purity here.  Python is a consenting
adults language that makes monkey patching possible.  It provides
a direct way to compensate for someone failing to put hooks in
their API.

The risk of monkey patching is that if other modules use the patched
module, they have no way of knowing that the behavior is changed.
IOW, monkey patching is a fragile technique for a large project.


Raymond



From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:03:45 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:03:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

thanks JM,

at this point i switched over to this scheme and now I'm getting an
error durring instantiation of the server:
Server.py:
from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
from ServerNegotiator import ServerNegotiator
from sharedComs import *

f = open("hostid")
tup = stringToTuple(f.readline()[0:-1])
HostID = f.readline()[0:-1]
f.close()

key = RSA.construct((long(tup[0]),long(tup[1]), long(tup[2]),
long(tup[3]),
                     long(tup[4]),long(tup[5])))
host = "localhost"
port = 8005

servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
servernegotiator.start()


ServerNegotiatior.py lines 185 - end
class ServerNegotiator:
    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
        negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
        self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)

    def start(self):
        self.server.serve_forever()





Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Server.py", line 16, in <module>
    servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ServerNegotiator.py", line 188, in __init__
    self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 400, in __init__
    self.server_bind()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 411, in server_bind
    self.socket.bind(self.server_address)
  File "<string>", line 1, in bind
TypeError: an integer is required



From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:09:53 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pycrypto RSA Issue
Message-ID: <36189d1d-b33f-49bc-9857-74611e665aed@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to encrypt public data along with another tuple and then
decrypt it after sending. RSA is needed for negotiation of keys for
AES. But I just get garbage after I decrypt it. This is what I'm
attempting to do:

from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
from Crypto import Random

gkey = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
string = str((gkey.publickey().__getstate__(),
              (333,444)))
print string
print
data = gkey.encrypt(string,"")
print "data:",data
print
print "decrypt"
print "decrypt,", gkey.decrypt(data)
print "done"

All I get are junk values when printing the decrypted value.


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:11:17 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:11:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <72bd2afa-2a58-489d-819a-966a92096d1d@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 9 f?v, 11:01, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Klaus Neuner, 09.02.2010 10:04:
>
> > my program is supposed to parse files that I have created myself and that
> > are on my laptop. It is not supposed to interact with anybody else
> > than me.
>
> Famous last words.
>
> Stefan

I knew it.

Olivier


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 13:23:21 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:23:21 +0100
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
In-Reply-To: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B71A819.8050509@sequans.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>
>    start = time.clock()
>    [stuff being timed]
>    stop  = time.clock()
>
>    delta = stop-start
>
>
> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
> MS-bashing here]
>
> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>
> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
> that time.clock() works right?
>
>   

Did you try with the datetime module ?

import datetime
t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
t1.microseconds
Out[4]: 644114

JM



From pheensoowt at farifluset.mailexpire.com  Tue Feb  9 13:27:36 2010
From: pheensoowt at farifluset.mailexpire.com (Legrandin)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 18:27:36 GMT
Subject: Pycrypto RSA Issue
References: <36189d1d-b33f-49bc-9857-74611e665aed@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b71a918$0$14115$703f8584@textnews.kpn.nl>


> gkey = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
> string = str((gkey.publickey().__getstate__(),(333,444)))

You are encrypting with RSA a piece of data which is way
larger than the key size (48 bytes).



From george.trojan at noaa.gov  Tue Feb  9 13:41:45 2010
From: george.trojan at noaa.gov (George Trojan)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:41:45 +0000
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hksa99$p0$1@news.nems.noaa.gov>

Argument mismatch?

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> 
> servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> 
> class ServerNegotiator:
>     def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
> 


From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Tue Feb  9 13:47:43 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:47:43 +0100
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8281270.AG5xCW3FSB@beaureve.gmx.net>

Carl Banks wrote:


> You can have __add__ return a closure for the first addition, then
> perform the operation on the second one.  Example (untested):
> 
> class Closure(object):
>     def __init__(self,t1,t2):
>         self.t1 = t1
>         self.t2 = t2
>     def __add__(self,t3):
>         # whole operation peformed here
>         return self.t1 + self.t2 + t3
> 
> class MySpecialInt(int):
>     def __add__(self,other):
>         return Closure(self,other)
> 
> 
> I wouldn't recommend it.  Just use a function call with three
> arguments.

That's way cool. 

<Flash of insight> Of course! - CURRYING!! If you can return closures
you can do everything with just single-parameter functions.</Flash of
insight>

BTW I am not really trying to add three objects, I wanted a third object
which controls the way the addition is done. Sort of like "/" and "//"
which are two different ways of doing division.

Anyways: thanks a lot.





From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:51:09 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mac install
References: <a73f2cb2-d748-4ddb-a84a-ff2e6d14149f@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <618b5d95-252c-425c-bd18-b38e3bf5e7fb@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hello. The answer is, I don't know. But I originally replaced my
existing Python with 3.1.1. I then had to backtrack because some stuff
broke. Nothing in the OS, but adapting every Python script on my HD
was not what I wanted to do.

So my Py3 executable is at:
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/bin/python3.1
then symlink to that in folder:
/usr/local/bin

using command:
sudo ln -s /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/bin/
python3.1 /usr/local/bin/python3.1

so that saying:
ls /usr/local/bin

shows the link to the Py3 folder as:
python3.1 -> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/bin/
python3.1

Now your existing scripts still work on Py 2.6. New scripts invoke Py3
like this:
#!/usr/local/bin/python3.1

For Terminal sessions, an alias in your bash_profile puts you in Py3
by default without nasty surprises:
alias python=/usr/local/bin/python3.1

You can also create a file at:
/Library/Python/3.1/site-packages/sitecustomize.py

with a configuration that runs at loadtime, although some things seem
to fail. But all in all this system has worked well for me (including
CGI) and should be easy to go mainstream once Apple goes to Py3.

-- Gnarlie



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 13:51:31 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:51:31 +0100
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B71AEB3.3030908@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> thanks JM,
>
> at this point i switched over to this scheme and now I'm getting an
> error durring instantiation of the server:
> Server.py:
> from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
> from ServerNegotiator import ServerNegotiator
> from sharedComs import *
>
> f = open("hostid")
> tup = stringToTuple(f.readline()[0:-1])
> HostID = f.readline()[0:-1]
> f.close()
>
> key = RSA.construct((long(tup[0]),long(tup[1]), long(tup[2]),
> long(tup[3]),
>                      long(tup[4]),long(tup[5])))
> host = "localhost"
> port = 8005
>
> servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> servernegotiator.start()
>
>
> ServerNegotiatior.py lines 185 - end
> class ServerNegotiator:
>     def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
>         negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
>         self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
>
>     def start(self):
>         self.server.serve_forever()
>
>
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Server.py", line 16, in <module>
>     servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ServerNegotiator.py", line 188, in __init__
>     self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 400, in __init__
>     self.server_bind()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 411, in server_bind
>     self.socket.bind(self.server_address)
>   File "<string>", line 1, in bind
> TypeError: an integer is required
>
>   

servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
class ServerNegotiator:
    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):


you swapped port & hostID in your call

JM



From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:58:19 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:58:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Programing family
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr> 
	<7xaavi5owh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <ee6b574a-5ae5-40ed-8e4c-8dc048dd3bd6@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 9:56?am, Paul Rubin wrote:

> http://i.imgur.com/1gF1j.jpg

Very funny, except where is Python and Forth?

-- Gnarlie


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 14:04:01 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:04:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hksbj1$i0d$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>
>>    start = time.clock()
>>    [stuff being timed]
>>    stop  = time.clock()
>>
>>    delta = stop-start
>>
>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>> MS-bashing here]
>>
>> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
>> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>>
>> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
>> that time.clock() works right?
>>
>>   
>
> Did you try with the datetime module ?

No.  What mechanism does it use to get the current date/time?

> import datetime
> t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
> t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
> t1.microseconds
> Out[4]: 644114

That looks very broken to me.  I need to measure stuff in the
1-20ms range, and the smallest value you can measure using the
method above appears to be 640ms.  Thats almost 2/3 of a second.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! If our behavior is
                                  at               strict, we do not need fun!
                               visi.com            


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 14:13:46 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:13:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2246.1265741501.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fc5cee67-cf5d-4d59-8e80-66156e479253@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 1:51?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Jordan Apgar wrote:
> > thanks JM,
>
> > at this point i switched over to this scheme and now I'm getting an
> > error durring instantiation of the server:
> > Server.py:
> > from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
> > from ServerNegotiator import ServerNegotiator
> > from sharedComs import *
>
> > f = open("hostid")
> > tup = stringToTuple(f.readline()[0:-1])
> > HostID = f.readline()[0:-1]
> > f.close()
>
> > key = RSA.construct((long(tup[0]),long(tup[1]), long(tup[2]),
> > long(tup[3]),
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long(tup[4]),long(tup[5])))
> > host = "localhost"
> > port = 8005
>
> > servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> > servernegotiator.start()
>
> > ServerNegotiatior.py lines 185 - end
> > class ServerNegotiator:
> > ? ? def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
> > ? ? ? ? negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
> > ? ? ? ? self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
>
> > ? ? def start(self):
> > ? ? ? ? self.server.serve_forever()
>
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "Server.py", line 16, in <module>
> > ? ? servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> > ? File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> > ServerNegotiator.py", line 188, in __init__
> > ? ? self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
> > ? File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 400, in __init__
> > ? ? self.server_bind()
> > ? File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 411, in server_bind
> > ? ? self.socket.bind(self.server_address)
> > ? File "<string>", line 1, in bind
> > TypeError: an integer is required
>
> servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> class ServerNegotiator:
> ? ? def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
>
> you swapped port & hostID in your call
>
> JM

tThanks guys it's working now... feel a little stupid though.


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 14:14:27 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:14:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pycrypto RSA Issue
References: <36189d1d-b33f-49bc-9857-74611e665aed@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b71a918$0$14115$703f8584@textnews.kpn.nl>
Message-ID: <6a1bbf69-3cfc-4d2b-b329-939ca6d2d553@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 1:27?pm, Legrandin <pheenso... at farifluset.mailexpire.com>
wrote:
> > gkey = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
> > string = str((gkey.publickey().__getstate__(),(333,444)))
>
> You are encrypting with RSA a piece of data which is way
> larger than the key size (48 bytes).

ah thanks Legrandin


From db3l.net at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 14:18:50 2010
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:18:50 -0500
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>

T <misceverything at gmail.com> writes:

> The more testing I do, I think you may be right..I was able to get it
> to work under a local admin account, and it worked under debug mode
> (which would also have been running as this user).  I'm a bit
> surprised though - I was under the assumption that LocalSystem had
> rights to access the network?

Not from my past experience - the system account (LocalSystem for
services) can be surprising, in that it's pretty much unlimited access
to all local resources, but severely limited in a handful of cases,
one of which is any attempt to access the network.  I can't recall for
sure if it's an absolute block, or if in some cases you can configure
around it (e.g., it might use a null session for remote shares which
can be enabled through the registry on the target machine).  I've
basically stuck "LocalSystem = no network" in my head from past
experience.

So you can either install your service to run under your existing
account, or create an account specifically for running your service,
granting that account just the rights it needs.

-- David








From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 14:59:18 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:59:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
References: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d89d3051-954d-4240-a52e-1e706c3c8023@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 3:54?am, George Sakkis <george.sak... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was talking to a colleague about one rather unexpected/undesired
> (though not buggy) behavior of some package we use. Although there is
> an easy fix (or at least workaround) on our end without any apparent
> side effect, he strongly suggested extending the relevant code by hard
> patching it and posting the patch upstream, hopefully to be accepted
> at some point in the future. In fact we maintain patches against
> specific versions of several packages that are applied automatically
> on each new build. The main argument is that this is the right thing
> to do, as opposed to an "ugly" workaround or a fragile monkey patch.
> On the other hand, I favor practicality over purity and my general
> rule of thumb is that "no patch" > "monkey patch" > "hard patch", at
> least for anything less than a (critical) bug fix.

I'd monkey patch for the meantime, but send a hard patch in the hopes
of shifting the maintenance burden to someone else.  (Plus maybe help
out the upstream project and other people, I guess)


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 15:02:12 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:02:12 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Duncan Booth:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> 
>> A copyable reference is a pointer. That is, a "pointer", in e.g. the
>> Java sense, 
>>   and in the general language independent sense, means a copyable
>>   reference  -- as illustrated e.g. in the Stanford computer science
>>   101 course page I 
>> referred you to earlier, with C versus Java pointers illustrated in
>> the concrete. 
> 
> The fact that C style pointers are used internally is an detail of the 
> CPython implementation.

Your statement seems pretty irrelevant to anything.

It's almost hilarious, quoting a single paragraph about how irrelevant the C 
pointer is, and responding with something like that.

Do you understand that you're restating (in the form of exemplifying) what 
you're quoting?


> In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location (and 
> their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the objects 
> themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed address. Try 
> comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers and you'll cause a 
> lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the id() value is in some way 
> related to an address.

Did you /read/ what you quoted?


> Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's nothing 
> in the Python specification which prevents a Python implementation doing 
> the same for small integers, in fact I believe it has been tried but wasn't 
> found to improve performance.

All theree of your points about Python are wrong; I don't know about the Ruby point.

First, the current Python language specification formally prevents the 
optimization you mention, because there's no support for binding to do anything 
but direct binding leaving object identities unchanged.

But in practice that's no big deal though: I can't imagine any code relying on 
identities of completely immutable objects.

Second, even the variant that was tried improved performance.

But it would reportedly have wreaked havoc with imperfect C code.

Third, the optimization doesn't do away with pointers. If it did then it would 
transform the language completely. The user's view is still one where names 
denote pointers.


> The terminology of 'objects', 'names', 'references' describes an abstract 
> machine. The Python runtime can implement it in any way it chooses so long 
> as those semantics are preserved. One implementation involves 'pointers',

It seems that you're thinking of C pointers.

That's pretty dumb since

    (1) it doesn't make sense, and

    (2) it has been mentioned in almost every article in this thread, including
        my first, and including the single paragraph that *you quoted above*,
        which was only about that, that

we're not talking about C pointers  here.

Python names denote pointers by definition (of pointer).


> but that word implies other baggage which is not a required part of the 
> model.

The word itself doesn't imply other baggage, no.

It might help to *read* what you're quoting, try to follow references, so on.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb  9 15:02:50 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:02:50 -0800
Subject: Tangling with mathplotlib(MPL)  on XP and Win7 -- show() stopper
In-Reply-To: <hkqm7p$hol$2@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqm7p$hol$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hksf1b$to4$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Solved. I need to get into the interactive mode. Never heard of it until 
this morning.



From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 15:04:08 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:08 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Stephen Hansen:
> [...]
>>> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it
>>> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org
>>> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem
>>> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>>
>>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
>> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>>
> Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?

I thought the answer could help.

You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.

That's the difference between us.


Cheers,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 15:39:05 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:39:05 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hksh8i$bj4$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Stephen Hansen:
>> [...]
>>>> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>>>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it
>>>> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org
>>>> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem
>>>> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>>>
>>>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
>>> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>>>
>> Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
> 
> I thought the answer could help.
> 
> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
> 
> That's the difference between us.
> 
Well, the way I see it, you assumed you knew better than Stephen, and
insisted on proposing a solution to a problem that he clearly stated he
had no interest in. I'm not quite sure, given that, what the point of
the advice was.

However, my question was genuine, based on your observed behavior.  I
agree I might have phrased it more politely, but I do find your
self-assurance somewhat irritating.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 15:39:44 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:39:44 -0500
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <fc5cee67-cf5d-4d59-8e80-66156e479253@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>	<9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2246.1265741501.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<fc5cee67-cf5d-4d59-8e80-66156e479253@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hksh9p$bj4$2@ger.gmane.org>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> On Feb 9, 1:51 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
[...]
>> you swapped port & hostID in your call
>>
>> JM
> 
> tThanks guys it's working now... feel a little stupid though.

Cool!

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From quindennis at grandecom.net  Tue Feb  9 16:00:47 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:00:47 -0600
Subject: New to Python
Message-ID: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

s = f.readline()
if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
if 'mystring' in s:
    print 'processing'

this generates output:
not found
processing

so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.

This is using IronPython


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 16:08:27 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:08:27 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>>> * Stephen Hansen:
>>> [...]
>>>>> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>>>>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it
>>>>> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org
>>>>> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem
>>>>> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>>>>
>>>>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
>>>> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>>>>
>>> Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
>> I thought the answer could help.
>>
>> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
>>
>> That's the difference between us.
>>
> Well, the way I see it, you assumed you knew better than Stephen, and
> insisted on proposing a solution to a problem that he clearly stated he
> had no interest in.

You're going into motivations, that it seems to me that you're projecting, 
saying that any helpful suggestion mean that one thinks one knows better and 
implies a desire to demonstrate imagined superiority.

You're trying to portray a helping hand as a negative personal characteristic of 
the helper.

"the only reason that guy tries to help you is because he wishes to show how 
superior he (thinks he) is".

That's your style in a fair number of postings, and now here:

  * ad hominem attack,

  * projection (at least the way I read it), and

  * inject - noise - about - something - completely - irrelevant

Note that readers can easily guess about motivations for the last.


> I'm not quite sure, given that, what the point of the advice was.

There are many people who read just the Usenet group, e.g. via Google groups.

When you say you don't understand the point of the advice, you're saying that

   * those people don't matter, and that

   * it doesn't matter whether they can read Stephen Hansen's articles.

That's

   * slighting Stephen Hansen, and

   * showing off an extreme ego-centric view of the world,

sorry.


> However, my question was genuine, based on your observed behavior.  I
> agree I might have phrased it more politely, but I do find your
> self-assurance somewhat irritating.

Thanks. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 16:18:44 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:18:44 -0300
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 9)
References: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
	<c3716b15-6735-4308-8724-be8dff3661d1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vphi2kx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:32:54 -0300, Marius Gedminas <mgedmin at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> The last three URLs are malformed:

Sorry... It happens even in the best of families :)
These are the right ones:

There is no module in the standard library to handle filesystem paths in  
an OO way - but why?
     http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f580fb3763208425/

A "History Channel" special: how the way a TAB key was interpreted changed  
over time
     http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/82d9181fcd31ffe4/

After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or  
Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
     http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fd36962c4970ac48/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 16:19:05 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:19:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksbj1$i0d$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hksjg9$o9b$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-02-09, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

>> Did you try with the datetime module ?
>
> No.  What mechanism does it use to get the current date/time?
>
>> import datetime
>> t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
>> t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
>> t1.microseconds
>> Out[4]: 644114
>
> That looks very broken to me.  I need to measure stuff in the
> 1-20ms range, and the smallest value you can measure using the
> method above appears to be 640ms.  Thats almost 2/3 of a second.

Duh.  It just occurred to me that was done interactively.  I'll
give the datetime module a try once I reboot my test machine
back into Windows.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Is this sexual
                                  at               intercourse yet??  Is it,
                               visi.com            huh, is it??


From db3l.net at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 16:25:24 2010
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:25:24 -0500
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <m2zl3i3xvf.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>

David Bolen <db3l.net at gmail.com> writes:

> Not from my past experience - the system account (LocalSystem for
> services) can be surprising, in that it's pretty much unlimited access
> to all local resources, but severely limited in a handful of cases,
> one of which is any attempt to access the network.  I can't recall for
> sure if it's an absolute block, or if in some cases you can configure
> around it (e.g., it might use a null session for remote shares which
> can be enabled through the registry on the target machine).  I've
> basically stuck "LocalSystem = no network" in my head from past
> experience.

Given it's been a few years, I decided to try some tests, and the
above is too simplistic.

The LocalSystem account runs without any local Windows credentials
(e.g., not like a logged in user), which has several consequences.
One is that you can't access any network resources that require such
credentials (like shares).  However, there's no sort of firewall
filtering or anything, so plain old TCP/IP connections are fine.
Unless, of course, the client being used also has other needs for
local Windows credentials, independent or as a pre-requisite to the
network operations.

So backing up a bit, the TCP/IP connection that plink is making is not
inherently disabled by running under LocalSystem, but it's certainly
possible that plink is trying to identify the user under which it is
operating to perhaps identify ssh keys or other local resources it
needs to operate.  You might be able to cover this with command line
options (e.g., plink supports "-i" to specify a key file to use), but
you'll also need to ensure that the file you are referencing is
readable by the LocalSystem account.

One of the other responders had a very good point about locating plink
in the first place too.  Services run beneath an environment that is
inherited from the service control manager process, and won't include
various settings that are applied to your user when logged in,
especially things like local path changes, and working directories.
Should you change the system path (via the environment settings),
you'll need to reboot for the service control manager to notice - I
don't think you can restart it without a reboot.

So it's generally safer to be very clear, and absolute when possible,
in a service for paths to external resources.

The prior advice of running the service as an identified user (e.g.,
with local credentials) is still good as it does remove most of these
issues since if you can run the script manually under that user you
know it'll work under service.  But it's not a hard requirement.

If your script is dying such that a top level exception is being
raised you should be able to find it in the application event log.  So
that might give further information on what about the different
environment is problematic.

You can also use the win32traceutil module to help with grabbing debug
output on the fly.  Import the module in your service, which will
implicitly redirect stdout/stderr to a trace buffer.  Run the same
win32traceutil module from the command line in another window.  Then
start the service.  Any stdout/stderr will be reflected in the other
window.  Can't catch everything (suppressed exceptions, or I/O that
doesn't flow through the script's stdout/stderr), but again might help
point in the right direction.

-- David


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  9 16:41:34 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:41:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b35471ed-00a9-4334-811f-8933919c9050@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 1:51?am, waku <w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
> 'stupid', 'wrong', 'deficient', 'terrible', ... ?you're using strong
> words instead of concrete arguments, it might intimidate your
> opponents, but is hardly helpful in a fair discussion.
>

In today's day and age, I don't know how a text editor which cannot do
simple indentation can be considered anything but "stupid", "wrong",
"deficient", and "terrible". There is simply no excuse for this kind
of behavior on the part of the text editor.

I mean, how long has vi had the auto indent feature? How many decades
has emacs supported the same? This isn't new technology, or difficult
technology to implement. It's not even non-standard anymore. Heck, far
more advanced features, such as syntax highlighting, are standard in
all text editors.

Your problem is you're using something like Windows Notepad to edit
your code. Windows Notepad is a terrible tool for writing anything,
let alone writing code. Why in the world would any programming
language adapt itself to the mental deficiencies of Windows Notepad? I
mean, if you were an artist, would you use MS Paint to do anything
serious? If you did, would you complain that the art world has a
problem because they don't accept your paintings?

I strongly suggest you download one of the *hundreds* of free text
editors available for the Windows platform that give you the
indentation features you so sorely lack. I suggest ViM, though it has
a steep learning curve.


From hklasky at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 16:42:39 2010
From: hklasky at gmail.com (seth)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:42:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: shelve.open generates (22, 'Invalid argument')  Os X 10.5 with Python 
	2.5
Message-ID: <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

There is something you could possibly help me with.

We have a code that creates a simple Python shelve database. We are
able to serialize objects and store them in the dbm file. This seem to
work the same on Windows XP Python 2.5, Ubuntu 9.1 with Python 2.6,
but on Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5 the database filename is changed by
the operating system by attaching the .db extension to it. Does an one
know why is that?

What is worse, at the time of reading it  we get the  error below the
extracted code, on Os X 10.5:

        if os.path.exists( tarname )and tarfile.is_tarfile( tarname ):
            try:
                datastore_tarfile=tarfile.open( tarname, 'r:gz' )
                print "Successfully opened the tarball: %s"%tarname
                members=datastore_tarfile.getnames()
                for dbmFile in members:
                    datastore_tarfile.extract( dbmFile )
                    print "Extracting Realizations File: %s"%dbmFile

                realizations=shelve.open( dbmFile, 'c', 2, writeback =
False )

Successfully opened the tarball: datastore.tar.gz
Extracting Realizations File: realizations.dbm.db
<class 'bsddb.error'>
(22, 'Invalid argument')

This does not happen on Windows XP with Python 2.5.
Does anyone know what is happening on Os X?
Any comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you
very much in advance.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  9 16:43:37 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:43:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PostgreSQL driver for Python applications that supports bytea 
	correctly?
References: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <690d8388-0f24-4461-89a1-cb34e3a082a9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 7:27?am, CyclingGuy <ericthecycl... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a PostgreSQL driver for Python that supports
> selecting and inserting bytea types?
>

Can you name some that don't?


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 16:45:38 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:45:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>
>>    start = time.clock()
>>    [stuff being timed]
>>    stop  = time.clock()
>>
>>    delta = stop-start
>>
>>
>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>> MS-bashing here]
>>
>> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
>> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>>
>> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
>> that time.clock() works right?

> Did you try with the datetime module ?
>
> import datetime
> t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
> t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
> t1.microseconds
> Out[4]: 644114

Doesn't work.  datetime.datetime.now has granularity of
15-16ms.

Intervals much less that that often come back with a delta of
0.  A delay of 20ms produces a delta of either 15-16ms or
31-32ms

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm receiving a coded
                                  at               message from EUBIE BLAKE!!
                               visi.com            


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 16:50:53 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:50:53 -0300
Subject: Programing family
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vqy3tzx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:39:58 -0300, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> I have thought funny things
> If we think all languages are like a family
> I could draft them like this (Python base)

Have a look at:
http://oreilly.com/news/languageposter_0504.html

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 17:00:50 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:00:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkslui$sq5$2@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-02-09, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>>
>>>    start = time.clock()
>>>    [stuff being timed]
>>>    stop  = time.clock()
>>>
>>>    delta = stop-start
>>>
>>>
>>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>>> MS-bashing here]
>>>
>>> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
>>> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>>>
>>> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
>>> that time.clock() works right?
>
>> Did you try with the datetime module ?
>>
>> import datetime
>> t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
>> t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
>> t1.microseconds
>> Out[4]: 644114
>
> Doesn't work.  datetime.datetime.now has granularity of
> 15-16ms.

time.time() exhibits the same behavior, so I assume that
datetime.datetime.new() ends up making the same libc/system
call as time.time().  From what I can grok of the datetime
module source code, it looks like it's calling gettimeofday().

I can't find any real documentation on the granularity of Win32
gettimeofday() other than a blog post that claims it is 10ms
(which doesn't agree with what my tests show).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I feel better about
                                  at               world problems now!
                               visi.com            


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:06:56 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:06:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Problem Regarding Queue
Message-ID: <80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Could some one please tell what is wrong with this code. I am trying
to use Queue in this program but i am getting error
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/user/NetBeansProjects/NewPythonProject2/src/
Pollard_rho.py", line 80, in <module>
    factor(n)
  File "/home/user/NetBeansProjects/NewPythonProject2/src/
Pollard_rho.py", line 59, in factor
    Q_1=Queue()
NameError: global name 'Queue' is not defined.
As i am new to python so kindly pardon me if  i sound stupid.
Here is the code
# To change this template, choose Tools | Templates
# and open the template in the editor.

__author__="Mukesh Tiwari"
__date__ ="$Feb 10, 2010 1:35:26 AM$"

import random
import sys
def gcd(a,b):
    while b:
        a,b=b,a%b
    return a

def rabin_miller(p):
	if(p<2):
		return False
	if(p!=2 and p%2==0):
		return False
	s=p-1
	while(s%2==0):
		s>>=1
	for i in xrange(10):
		a=random.randrange(p-1)+1
		temp=s
		mod=pow(a,temp,p)
		while(temp!=p-1 and mod!=1 and mod!=p-1):
			mod=(mod*mod)%p
			temp=temp*2
		if(mod!=p-1 and temp%2==0):
			return False
	return True

def pollard(n):
        if(n%2==0):
            return 2;
        x=random.randrange(2,1000000)
        c=random.randrange(2,1000000)
        y=x
        d=1
        while(d==1):
            x=(x*x+c)%n
            y=(y*y+c)%n
            y=(y*y+c)%n
            d=gcd(x-y,n)
            if(d==n):
                break;
        return d;
def factor(n):
    #if(rabin_miller(n)):
     #   print n
      #  return
    #d=pollard(n)
    #if(d!=n):
     #   factor(d)
      #  factor(n/d)
    #else:
     #   factor(n)

    Q_1=Queue()
    Q_2=Queue()
    Q_1.put(n)
    while(not Q_1.empty()):
        l=Q_1.get()
        if(rabin_miller(l)):
            Q_2.put(l)
            continue
        d=pollard(l)
        if(d==l):Q_1.put(l)
        else:
            Q_1.put(d)
            Q_1.put(l/d)
    while(not Q_2.empty()):
        print Q_2.get()



if __name__ == "__main__":
    while(True):
        n=input();
        factor(n)


From simon at brunningonline.net  Tue Feb  9 17:10:46 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:10:46 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>> think.
>
> Why?

I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From gordon at panix.com  Tue Feb  9 17:11:45 2010
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:11:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <hksmj1$a5$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d at posted.grandecom> "Quin" <quindennis at grandecom.net> writes:

> s = f.readline()
> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
> if 'mystring' in s:
>     print 'processing'

> this generates output:
> not found
> processing

> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.

I got this output when f contained 'mystring':

  foundit
  processing

And this output when f did not contain 'mystring':

  notfound

I have no idea why it would have worked otherwise for you.  When you posted
your question, did you type the code by hand?  Perhaps you made a mistake.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:25:31 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:25:31 -0800
Subject: Problem Regarding Queue
In-Reply-To: <80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002091425p5ed2181bybe1e5d89e99a89c2@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 2:06 PM, mukesh tiwari
<mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com>wrote:

> Could some one please tell what is wrong with this code. I am trying
> to use Queue in this program but i am getting error
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/home/user/NetBeansProjects/NewPythonProject2/src/
> Pollard_rho.py", line 80, in <module>
>    factor(n)
>  File "/home/user/NetBeansProjects/NewPythonProject2/src/
> Pollard_rho.py", line 59, in factor
>    Q_1=Queue()
> NameError: global name 'Queue' is not defined.
>

That's because you haven't imported the Queue module.

You need to do:

    import Queue

Then call:

    Q_1 = Queue.Queue()

Alternately, you can do:

    from Queue import Queue

And instantiate the class the same way you previously were.

--S
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb  9 17:28:12 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:28:12 -0800
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<7tceiuF94hU1@mid.individual.net>
	<d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002091428n167d2f5ew4393f7bab9a4a8d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Phlip <phlip2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Ah, now we get down to the root of the problem. Because Python is so
> stuck on the "one best way to do it" mentality, language bigotry
> prevented the Committee from picking from among several equally valid
> but non-best options. And after 20 years of growth, Python still has
> no Pathname class. What a mature community! C-:

Committee? I think you have us confused with C++...

*wink*,
Chris


From drobinow at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:42:57 2010
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:42:57 -0500
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f1002091442pa4ce024ueb5fa8326cf4b7e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Simon Brunning <simon at brunningonline.net> wrote:
> On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>>> think.
>>
>> Why?
>
> I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Simon B.
Can we please stop this?


From sridharr at activestate.com  Tue Feb  9 17:49:07 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:49:07 -0800
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <5cb36cc2-fe75-4542-af70-b33400fd4dea@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<5b6da8b6-f814-4779-b7cb-b02762e16f2c@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<5cb36cc2-fe75-4542-af70-b33400fd4dea@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <AC49051E-3596-41CC-B973-A749AAB57F59@activestate.com>


On 2010-02-07, at 5:02 PM, escalation746 wrote:

> Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps you've accidentally downloaded the wrong version of PythonWin?
> 
> Erk, yes, my bad.
> 
> Thanks for the quick help! Though I still wonder why the ActiveState
> build does not include this.

I just added support for PyWin32 in ActivePython 2.6 64-bit.

  http://twitter.com/sridhr/status/8874549314

I should be part of next release (2.6.4.11).

-srid


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:52:35 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:52:35 +0000
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
Message-ID: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>

Hi all,

Hi have a set of classes that represent mathematical objects which can
be represented as a string using a 'latex' method (after Knuth's famous
typesetting system).  As I want to be able to typeset some builtin types as
well, I have a generic function, latex(), as follows:

def latex(val):
    try:
        return val.latex()
    except AttributeError:
        if isinstance(val, (tuple, list)):
            return ", ".join(map(latex, val))
        elif isinstance(val, dict):
            return ", ".join(
                "%s=%s" % (latex(k), latex(v)) 
                for k, v in sorted(val.iteritems())
            )
        else:
            return str(val)

It's EAFP and I have used this for a while with no problem.  Recently I
added a new class for 'n choose r' objects, as follows:

class Choose(Expression):
   def __init__(self, n, r):
        self.subexprs = n, r
        self.n = n
        self.r = r
    def calc(self, ns=None, calc=calc):
        return choose(calc(self.n, ns), calc(self.r, ns))
    def latex(self):
        return "{%s \\choose %s}" % (latex(self.n), latex(self.k))

When I create a Choose object and try to get its latex representation,
this happens:

>>> c = Choose(5, 3)
>>> latex(c)
'<qmm.maths.expressions.Choose object at 0x17c92d0>'

This puzzled me for a bit: why is it not trying to use the latex()
method of the Choose object?  I read and reread the definition of the
latex() method for a while until I found that there was a typo.  Where
it says:

    latex(self.k)

it should say:

    latex(self.r)

Thus it triggers an AttributeError, which is exactly the kind of
exception that I am catching in the latex() function after trying
val.latex(). (Of course I could have caught this by calling c.latex()
directly but it's such a short method definition that I couldn't imagine
missing the typo!).

This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
detected had I LBYLed, i.e. instead of

    try:
        return val.latex()
    except AttributeError:
        ...

do

    if hasattr(val, 'latex'):
        return val.latex()
    else:
        ...


So was it wrong to say it's EAFP in this case?  Should I have known to
LBYL from the start?  How do you decide which one to use?  Up to now, I
thought it was more or less a matter of taste but now this makes me
think that at least LBYL is better than catching AttributeError.

Thanks for any guidance.

-- 
Arnaud


From mark0978 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:55:30 2010
From: mark0978 at gmail.com (Mark Jones)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:55:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for windows
Message-ID: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Python 2.6.4 is built, and I found a bdist_wininst project and
wininst-8 project.

How do I manage to build the msi for this thing?


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 18:09:23 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:09:23 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* David Robinow:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Simon Brunning <simon at brunningonline.net> wrote:
>> On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>>>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>>>> think.
>>> Why?
>> I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!
>>
> Can we please stop this?

I agree.

I haven't looked at the code but the functionality that's listed is useful, e.g. 
in a Usenet client, and it's fun to play around with for a beginner.

Also, for example, Christian Heimes wrote else-thread: ?Your work should be 
interesting for everybody who has read Simon Sing's "The Code Book: The Science 
of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum"? (and I for one have that book).


Cheers,

- Alf


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb  9 18:11:41 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:11:41 +1100
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <87k4umhumq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> As I want to be able to typeset some builtin types as well, I have a
> generic function, latex(), as follows:
>
> def latex(val):
>     try:
>         return val.latex()
>     except AttributeError:
[?]

> It's EAFP and I have used this for a while with no problem.
[?]

> I found that there was a typo. Where it says:
>
>     latex(self.k)
>
> it should say:
>
>     latex(self.r)
>
> Thus it triggers an AttributeError, which is exactly the kind of
> exception that I am catching in the latex() function after trying
> val.latex(). (Of course I could have caught this by calling c.latex()
> directly but it's such a short method definition that I couldn't
> imagine missing the typo!).
>
> This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
> detected had I LBYLed

The correct approach here is to reduce the operations being done in the
?try? suite to a minimum.

The fact that you're calling a function in the ?try? block obviously
opens you to the potential for an AttributeError from that function.
Since that's not what you intend to catch, you need to separate those
concerns.

def latex(val):
    def make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method():
        result = transmogrify(val)
        return result

    try:
        typeset_func = val.latex
    except AttributeError:
        typeset_func = make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method

    result = typeset_func()
    return result

-- 
 \           ?Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in |
  `\                                               prayer.? ?Anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de  Tue Feb  9 18:22:50 2010
From: helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de (Malte Helmert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:22:50 +0100
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
In-Reply-To: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hksqo9$f5r$1@ger.gmane.org>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
> detected had I LBYLed, i.e. instead of
> 
>     try:
>         return val.latex()
>     except AttributeError:
>         ...
> 
> do
> 
>     if hasattr(val, 'latex'):
>         return val.latex()
>     else:
>         ...
> 
> 
> So was it wrong to say it's EAFP in this case?

I would say that it's not really the EAFP concept that is problematic
here, but rather that the try block encompasses more code than it
should. Generally try blocks should be as narrow as possible, i.e., they
should contain only the part where you really want to catch a potential
failure.

"return val.latex()" does two separate things that might fail: the
lookup of val.latex, and the actual method call. If I understood you
correctly, you only want to catch the AttributeError in the "val.latex"
lookup here, and hence I'd say the "correct" application of EAFP here
would be something like:

try:
    foo = val.latex
except AttributeError:
    ...
else:
    return foo()

Whether that's any better than LBYL in this particular case is of course
debatable -- one nice thing compared to your LBYL version is that it
doesn't look up val.latex twice upon success. But you could also get
that via the LBYLish:

latex_method = getattr(val, "latex")
if latex_method:
    return latex_method()
...

Malte



From helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de  Tue Feb  9 18:27:10 2010
From: helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de (Malte Helmert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:27:10 +0100
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
In-Reply-To: <87k4umhumq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com> <87k4umhumq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hksr0c$fqj$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ben Finney wrote:

> def latex(val):
>     def make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method():
>         result = transmogrify(val)
>         return result
>
>     try:
>         typeset_func = val.latex
>     except AttributeError:
>         typeset_func = make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method
>
>     result = typeset_func()
>     return result

In this particular case, where in the case of an AttributeError you want
to use a fallback callable with the same signature as the bound method
you get in case of success, I'd say getattr with a default is the nicest
approach:

def latex(val):
    def make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method():
        result = transmogrify(val)
        return result
    return getattr(val, "latex",
                   make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method)()


Doesn't work as nicely if you don't have
make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method's functionality bundled
into a suitable function already, though.

Malte



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 18:27:13 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:27:13 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>

On 10-02-2010 00:09, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * David Robinow:
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Simon Brunning 
>> <simon at brunningonline.net> wrote:
>>> On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>>>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>>>>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>>>>> think.
>>>> Why?
>>> I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!
>>>
>> Can we please stop this?
>
> I agree.
>
sorry I don't,
unless Python is only meant for the very well educated people in encryption.

> I haven't looked at the code but the functionality that's listed is 
> useful, e.g. in a Usenet client, and it's fun to play around with for 
> a beginner.
I neither did look at the code,
but as a beginner with just 3 years of experience in Python,
I've tried several scrambling libs, for a quick and dirty use.
All were much too difficult, so I made my own xor-something.
Coming from Delphi, a scrambling lib is working is less than 10 minutes, 
without the need of any knowledge of encryption.
I prefer Python over Delphi, but some things are made very complex in 
Python.

cheers,
Stef
>
> Also, for example, Christian Heimes wrote else-thread: ?Your work 
> should be interesting for everybody who has read Simon Sing's "The 
> Code Book: The Science of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum"? (and 
> I for one have that book).
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 18:31:32 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 23:31:32 GMT
Subject: Programing family
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <00fb7592$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:49:21 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

> On Feb 8, 2010, at 8:39 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have thought funny things
>>> If we think all languages are like a family
> 
> Then it would be a very incestuous family fore sure.
> 
>>> I could draft them like this (Python base)
>>>
>>> C is Python's Mom
>>> C++ : Dad
> 
> Not that much C++ in Python, IMHO. If that's for the OO part, then the
> closer to Python's object model I can think of is javascript.

I thought that Javascript didn't even have inheritance until recently? 
Like in the last year?



> Historically, Python comes from ABC, which itself comes from SETL.
> 
>>> Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents
> 
> Assembly ? What about binary machine code then ?-)


I'd say assembly is more like the distant answer, back when we still had 
tails and lived in trees and worried about being eaten by eagles.


>>> C#   : Uncle
>>> Java : Ant
> 
> Interesting typo here !-)
> 
> Hmmm... Python predates both C# and Java. Ok, technically speaking
> nothing prevents an uncle or aunt from being younger than their nephews,
> and I even saw the case a couple time - but that's far from being the
> common case.
> 
>>> Ruby: Cousin
>>> Perl : Girlfriend
> 
> Then it's kind of a very passionate love-hate relationship - bordering
> on pathological FWIW !-)

I'd say that the girlfriend is more likely Lisp or Haskell -- some of the 
more functional aspects of Python have been inspired by these languages.

> Now you forgot the whole Lisp / ML heritage - most FP stuff -, and of
> course Simula and Smalltalk.

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 18:37:45 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 23:37:45 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:08 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.

That phrase you keep using, "ad hominem"... it doesn't mean what you seem 
to think it means.

An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you 
personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of "Don't 
pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's a 
<whatever>".

You might not like the personal criticism, but that doesn't make it 
either an attack or a fallacy.


-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 18:40:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:40:50 +0100
Subject: Easter Eggs
Message-ID: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I know 3 Python Easter Eggs,

   from __future__ import braces
   import this
   help( "antigravity" )

Are there more?


Cheers,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 18:43:51 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:43:51 -0300
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vv7dsjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:10:56 -0300, Grant Edwards  
<invalid at invalid.invalid> escribi?:

> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>
> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
> MS-bashing here]

I'm not sure you can blame MS of this issue; anyway, this patch should fix  
the problem:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=896256

> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?

No that I know of. QueryPerformanceCounter (the function used by  
time.clock) seems to be the best timer available.

> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
> that time.clock() works right?

Interactively, from the Task Manager:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/taskman_assign_process.mspx

In code, using SetProcessAffinityMask and related functions:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms686223(VS.85).aspx

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Feb  9 18:49:25 2010
From: mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:49:25 +0000
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
In-Reply-To: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B71F485.4050703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Hi have a set of classes that represent mathematical objects which can
> be represented as a string using a 'latex' method (after Knuth's famous
> typesetting system).  As I want to be able to typeset some builtin types as
> well, I have a generic function, latex(), as follows:
> 
> def latex(val):
>     try:
>         return val.latex()
>     except AttributeError:
>         if isinstance(val, (tuple, list)):
>             return ", ".join(map(latex, val))
>         elif isinstance(val, dict):
>             return ", ".join(
>                 "%s=%s" % (latex(k), latex(v)) 
>                 for k, v in sorted(val.iteritems())
>             )
>         else:
>             return str(val)
> 
> It's EAFP and I have used this for a while with no problem.  Recently I
> added a new class for 'n choose r' objects, as follows:
> 
> class Choose(Expression):
>    def __init__(self, n, r):
>         self.subexprs = n, r
>         self.n = n
>         self.r = r
>     def calc(self, ns=None, calc=calc):
>         return choose(calc(self.n, ns), calc(self.r, ns))
>     def latex(self):
>         return "{%s \\choose %s}" % (latex(self.n), latex(self.k))
> 
> When I create a Choose object and try to get its latex representation,
> this happens:
> 
>>>> c = Choose(5, 3)
>>>> latex(c)
> '<qmm.maths.expressions.Choose object at 0x17c92d0>'
> 
> This puzzled me for a bit: why is it not trying to use the latex()
> method of the Choose object?  I read and reread the definition of the
> latex() method for a while until I found that there was a typo.  Where
> it says:
> 
>     latex(self.k)
> 
> it should say:
> 
>     latex(self.r)
> 
> Thus it triggers an AttributeError, which is exactly the kind of
> exception that I am catching in the latex() function after trying
> val.latex(). (Of course I could have caught this by calling c.latex()
> directly but it's such a short method definition that I couldn't imagine
> missing the typo!).
> 
> This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
> detected had I LBYLed, i.e. instead of
> 
>     try:
>         return val.latex()
>     except AttributeError:
>         ...
> 
> do
> 
>     if hasattr(val, 'latex'):
>         return val.latex()
>     else:
>         ...
> 
> 
> So was it wrong to say it's EAFP in this case?  Should I have known to
> LBYL from the start?  How do you decide which one to use?  Up to now, I
> thought it was more or less a matter of taste but now this makes me
> think that at least LBYL is better than catching AttributeError.
> 
> Thanks for any guidance.
> 
In addition to the other replies, you should've tested the Choose class. :-)


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 18:55:36 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:55:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<roy-D50219.08213509022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <bdfeea74-825e-4d44-b033-f53c662fa091@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 7:21?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8... at news.astraweb.com>,
> ?Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

[..]

> No pig latin?

Wait a minute guys, Stevens a well known prankster and comic relief
clown around here, I think he's just shining us all on! ;o)


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 18:59:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:59:15 +0100
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <4B71F6D3.9020803@sequans.com>

Quin wrote:
> s = f.readline()
> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
> if 'mystring' in s:
>    print 'processing'
>
> this generates output:
> not found
> processing
>
> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.
>
> This is using IronPython
The code you povided works as expected.

Copy paste the exact code

JM


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 18:59:16 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:59:16 -0300
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<8281270.AG5xCW3FSB@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <op.u7vww2phx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:47:43 -0300, Martin Drautzburg  
<Martin.Drautzburg at web.de> escribi?:

> Carl Banks wrote:
>
>> You can have __add__ return a closure for the first addition, then
>> perform the operation on the second one.  Example (untested):
>>
>
> That's way cool.
>
> <Flash of insight> Of course! - CURRYING!! If you can return closures
> you can do everything with just single-parameter functions.</Flash of
> insight>
>
> BTW I am not really trying to add three objects, I wanted a third object
> which controls the way the addition is done. Sort of like "/" and "//"
> which are two different ways of doing division.

See http://code.activestate.com/recipes/384122/ for another cool hack that  
may help with that.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From rantingrick at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:01:44 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:01:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Easter Eggs
References: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7e0eb494-71d6-47c6-96ad-fecf0866fb25@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 5:40?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> I know 3 Python Easter Eggs,
>
> ? ?from __future__ import braces
> ? ?import this
> ? ?help( "antigravity" )
>
> Are there more?
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf

Oh this is just great ALF! Now what secrets will the Py-Illuminati
have to giggle about whist watching Monty Python's flying circus and
enjoying those delightfully delicious little crumpets? I very
disappointed in you sir!  :'-(

PS WTF






From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 19:06:02 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:06:02 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkst5i$ufr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:08 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
> 
> That phrase you keep using, "ad hominem"... it doesn't mean what you seem 
> to think it means.
> 
> An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you 
> personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of "Don't 
> pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's a 
> <whatever>".

<url: http://www.tfd.com/ad+hominem>
ad hominem Latin [?d ?h?m??n?m]
adj & adv
1. directed against a person rather than against his arguments
2. based on or appealing to emotion rather than reason Compare ad rem See also 
argumentum ad hominem



> You might not like the personal criticism, but that doesn't make it 
> either an attack or a fallacy.

Steve Holden attacked only at the personal level, via characterization.

In response to ...

 > >> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it [failure of article propagation].
 >
 > Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?

... Steve Holden wrote:

<quote>
Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
</quote>

Which doesn't have anything to do with any subject matter discussed, not even 
the PS that he was replying to (which absolutely didn't warrant that description 
or any negative response), but which does convey an impression of a person.

Then he wrote

<quote>
you assumed you knew better than Stephen [Hansen]
</quote>

which again is only about a person, and here about the person's motivations for 
trying to help.

And there was a bit more with some collateral damage in the implications.

It's pretty dirty and yes, personal attacks are ad hominem; see above.

The ad hominem attacks that he appears to routinely engage in reflect back on 
Steve Holden but the sub-threads that they invariably spawn also constitute a 
high level of noise deflecting from whatever issue was discussed.



Cheers & hth. (especially the dictionary reference),

- Alf

PS: in order to recognize various forms of fallacies the following is a quite 
useful resource: <url: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/>. I just typed 
"fallacies" in the Firefox address bar. - DS


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 19:14:57 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:14:57 -0300
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for
	windows
References: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vxm7i5x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:30 -0300, Mark Jones <mark0978 at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> Python 2.6.4 is built, and I found a bdist_wininst project and
> wininst-8 project.
>
> How do I manage to build the msi for this thing?

See the Tools\msi directory; and look for some posts last year from Tim  
Golden regarding some issues with the directory layout and other details.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From rtw at freenet.co.uk  Tue Feb  9 19:16:24 2010
From: rtw at freenet.co.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:16:24 -0600
Subject: Problem Regarding Queue
References: <80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1B3085309BrtwfreenetREMOVEcouk@216.196.109.145>

mukesh tiwari wrote in news:80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399
@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com in comp.lang.python:

> Could some one please tell what is wrong with this code. I am trying
> to use Queue in this program but i am getting error

The type you appear to be trying to use is Queue.Queue which you import
with:

from Queue import Queue 

http://docs.python.org/library/queue.html?highlight=queue#Queue.Queue

>     Q_1=Queue()
>     Q_2=Queue()
>     Q_1.put(n)
>     while(not Q_1.empty()):
>         l=Q_1.get()
>         if(rabin_miller(l)):
>             Q_2.put(l)
>             continue
>         d=pollard(l)
>         if(d==l):Q_1.put(l)
>         else:

As the help page above points out also check out the deque Class:

http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html#collections.deque

Rob.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb  9 19:23:34 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:23:34 +1100
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies (was: Modifying Class
	Object)
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you
> personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of
> "Don't pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking
> about, he's a <whatever>".

In other words, a criticism of the person is only a fallacy if it is
both irrelevant to the argument *and* used to dismiss the argument.

Many criticisms are introduced not because they directly connect to the
argument, but simply because they are relevant to the demonstrated
behaviour at the time.

> You might not like the personal criticism, but that doesn't make it 
> either an attack or a fallacy.

Exactly. A personal criticism can be expressed *as a criticism*, and be
valid or not without needing to be relevant to your chosen argument.
Look to the criticism on its own merits, and decide what to do about it.

-- 
 \         ?If there were not God, there would be no atheists.? ?G. K. |
  `\                                                        Chesterton |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From van.lindberg at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:24:15 2010
From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:24:15 -0600
Subject: PyCon is coming! Tomorrow, Feb. 10 is the last day for pre-conference
	rates
Message-ID: <hksube$p4a$1@ger.gmane.org>

PyCon is coming! Tomorrow (February 10th) is the last day for
pre-conference rates. You can register for PyCon online at:

<https://us.pycon.org/2010/register/>

Register while it is still Feb. 10th somewhere in the world and rest
easy in the knowledge that within 10 days you will enjoying the company
of some of the finest Python hackers in the world.

As an additional bonus, PyCon this year will be in Atlanta, making it an
ideal location for those looking for a way to escape the late winter
blizzards in the northeastern United States, or the dreary fog of the
Bay area.

See you at PyCon 2010!



From mark0978 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:24:58 2010
From: mark0978 at gmail.com (Mark Jones)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:24:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for 
	windows
References: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1265760917.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b61ba2f6-46bb-42a4-94b7-fb42b0a79494@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

That was so simple, thanks.

I scanned all the folders for inst, install, setup, but since msi was
the expected output extension, I didn't see that!

On Feb 9, 6:14?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-... at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:30 -0300, Mark Jones <mark0... at gmail.com> ?
> escribi?:
>
> > Python 2.6.4 is built, and I found a bdist_wininst project and
> > wininst-8 project.
>
> > How do I manage to build the msi for this thing?
>
> See the Tools\msi directory; and look for some posts last year from Tim ?
> Golden regarding some issues with the directory layout and other details.
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina



From half.italian at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:27:41 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkq3lv$7k2$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8fc356e0-f3ed-4a67-9b37-f21561cef4a5@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 2:36?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f6... at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> Sean DiZazzo ?<half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Feb 3, 6:08=A0pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:
> >>http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
> >Why did Path() get rejected? ?Is it the idea itself, or just the
> >approach that was used? ?What are the complaints?
>
> You should search for the discussiona around it.
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> import antigravity

I read the discussion, and there was definitely some going back and
forth on whether it should be sub-classed from string, but the
conversation just seemed to stop abruptly with no decision one way of
the other.  Maybe I missed a thread.

I guess being dropped without a final go-ahead is just as good as a
formal no anyway.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 19:29:31 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:29:31 -0300
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vybhv3x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:27:13 -0300, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki at gmail.com>  
escribi?:
> On 10-02-2010 00:09, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * David Robinow:
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Simon Brunning  
>>> <simon at brunningonline.net> wrote:
>>>> On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>>>>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>>>>>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>>>>>> think.
>>>>> Why?
>>>> I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!
>>> Can we please stop this?
>> I agree.
>>
> sorry I don't,
> unless Python is only meant for the very well educated people in  
> encryption.
>
>> I haven't looked at the code but the functionality that's listed is  
>> useful, e.g. in a Usenet client, and it's fun to play around with for a  
>> beginner.
> I neither did look at the code,
> but as a beginner with just 3 years of experience in Python,
> I've tried several scrambling libs, for a quick and dirty use.
> All were much too difficult, so I made my own xor-something.
> Coming from Delphi, a scrambling lib is working is less than 10 minutes,  
> without the need of any knowledge of encryption.
> I prefer Python over Delphi, but some things are made very complex in  
> Python.

Are you sure?

>>> def xor(s, key):
...   return ''.join(chr(ord(c)^key) for c in s)
...
>>> txt = "Hello world!"
>>> xor(txt, 123)
'3\x1e\x17\x17\x14[\x0c\x14\t\x17\x1fZ'
>>> xor(_, 123)
'Hello world!'

The Delphi code would be certainly longer than that, some variation of:

function encrypt_xor(const s: string; key: integer);
var
   i: integer;
begin
   SetLength(Result, length(s));
   for i:=1 to length(s) do
   begin
     Result[i] := chr(ord(s[i]) xor key);
   end;
end;

(untested)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 19:38:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ben Finney:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
> 
>> An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you
>> personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of
>> "Don't pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking
>> about, he's a <whatever>".
> 
> In other words, a criticism of the person is only a fallacy if it is
> both irrelevant to the argument *and* used to dismiss the argument.

Or to weaken an argument, or to draw attention away from an argument, or to 
weaken future arguments...

However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems constituted logical 
fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical fallacies.

For example, if a person is a chronic liar, has a known history of lying, then 
that can have a strong bearing on whether the person's claims  --  technical or 
about other persons  --  should be seriously considered[1].


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf



Notes:
[1] As explained at <url: 
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html>


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 19:39:31 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:39:31 -0300
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkst5i$ufr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7vyr52kx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:06:02 -0300, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no>  
escribi?:

> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:08 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>
>>> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
>>  That phrase you keep using, "ad hominem"... it doesn't mean what you  
>> seem to think it means.
>>  An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you  
>> personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of  
>> "Don't pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking  
>> about, he's a <whatever>".
>
> <url: http://www.tfd.com/ad+hominem>
> ad hominem Latin [?d ?h?m??n?m]
> adj & adv
> 1. directed against a person rather than against his arguments
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 2. based on or appealing to emotion rather than reason Compare ad rem  
> See also argumentum ad hominem
>
> In response to ...
>
>  > >> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it [failure of article  
> propagation].
>  >
>  > Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>
> ... Steve Holden wrote:
>
> <quote>
> Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
> </quote>
>
> Which doesn't have anything to do with any subject matter discussed, not  
> even the PS that he was replying to (which absolutely didn't warrant  
> that description or any negative response), but which does convey an  
> impression of a person.

This doesn't make it an ad hominem fallacie. This is just criticism  
directed to your person, that you may like or not. It would be a fallacie  
if it were intended to dismiss your argument.

> PS: in order to recognize various forms of fallacies the following is a  
> quite useful resource: <url: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/>.  
> I just typed "fallacies" in the Firefox address bar. - DS

 From the above site:

"this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character  
of person making the claim [...] Second, this attack is taken to be  
evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making  
(or presenting)."

That second part is missing in S. H. posts.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From lists at cheimes.de  Tue Feb  9 20:03:47 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:03:47 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7205F3.6040603@cheimes.de>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> sorry I don't,
> unless Python is only meant for the very well educated people in encryption.

All algorithms in obfuscate are obsolete, insecure and only interesting
for people *that* want to get well educated in the history of encryption.

> I neither did look at the code,
> but as a beginner with just 3 years of experience in Python,
> I've tried several scrambling libs, for a quick and dirty use.
> All were much too difficult, so I made my own xor-something.
> Coming from Delphi, a scrambling lib is working is less than 10 minutes, 
> without the need of any knowledge of encryption.
> I prefer Python over Delphi, but some things are made very complex in 
> Python.

It's tricky to implement modern cryptographic algorithms with Python.
Most example codes are written in C and the implementations are using
overflow (e.g. 255 + 1 == 0) a lot. It took me twice as long to get the
TEA family (TEA, XTEA, XXTEA) crypt functions right in Python than I
required to wrap existing code in an handwritten C interface.

One of the strongest encryption algorithm in the list -- Vigen?re -- was
crack over 150 years (!) ago. A much, much stronger version of the
principles behind Vigen?re was used in the German Enigma machine.
Because the algorithm was still not good enought some clever guy called
Turing and his team was able to crack the enigma. It's one of the main
reasons the Germans were defeated and the world doesn't look like in
Robert Harris "Fatherland" today. Oh, and we go computers, too. ;)

Grab pycrypto, m2crypto or one of the other packages if you need a
minimum amount of security.

Christian


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb  9 20:24:44 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:24:44 +1100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de> writes:

> All algorithms in obfuscate are obsolete, insecure and only
> interesting for people *that* want to get well educated in the history
> of encryption.

Not true. Another use case is suggested by the chosen name for the
library: to obfuscate text against casual human reading, while not
making it at all difficult to decrypt by people who are motivated to do
so.

The classic example is rot-13 encryption of text in internet messages;
it would be a failure of imagination to suggest there are not other,
similar use cases.

> Grab pycrypto, m2crypto or one of the other packages if you need a
> minimum amount of security.

Agreed. However, for cases that *don't* need security from determined
attackers, I don't think those obviate the usefulness of this library.

-- 
 \     ?Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature |
  `\                            cannot be fooled.? ?Richard P. Feynman |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 20:35:21 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 01:35:21 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.10.01.35.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:03:47 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:

> Stef Mientki wrote:
>> sorry I don't,
>> unless Python is only meant for the very well educated people in
>> encryption.
> 
> All algorithms in obfuscate are obsolete, insecure and only interesting
> for people *that* want to get well educated in the history of
> encryption.
[...]
> Grab pycrypto, m2crypto or one of the other packages if you need a
> minimum amount of security.

As the author of obfuscate, I would like to second Christian's statement. 
obfuscate is NOT meant for serious security, as I state in both the 
source code and the documentation to the module.

That's not to say that it can't be useful for some people -- I wouldn't 
have spent the time writing it if I didn't think it was useful. But it is 
useful for obfuscation, education and puzzles, not for secure encryption.

I'm not sure how serious the calls for this to be added to the standard 
library are. If they're serious, I'm grateful for the votes of confidence 
from people, but I can't imagine Guido saying yes. In any case, it's 
premature to talk about adding it to the std library while it is still in 
alpha.

Thank you for all the comments, even the tongue-in-cheek ones. This has 
exceeded my wildest expectations! I'm always interested in feedback, good 
and bad, either publicly or privately.



-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  9 21:04:43 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:43 -0500
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hkt47r$7bj$1@ger.gmane.org>


>>> C is Python's Mom
>>> C++ : Dad

Obviously no. The other parent might be arguably be Barbara Liskov's 
CLU, itself based on Algol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLU_%28programming_language%29

CLU contributions:
  The basic object model, including mutable/immutable
  The function call-by-object model
  Iterators/generators/yield
  Multiple assignment and function returns

Terry Jan Reedy



From danielwong at berkeley.edu  Tue Feb  9 21:40:26 2010
From: danielwong at berkeley.edu (danielx)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:40:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: convention for documenting function parameters in doc strings
References: <b63184df-504e-49be-9f0b-d63c37e1ce9d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2148.1265626204.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c7b45503-b5e1-4dd2-a724-9ed00a24fd68@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 2:49?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> danielx wrote:
> > Is there aconventionfor how to document function (or method)
> > parameters in doc strings? Recently, I've been doing alot of PHP
> > programming, and in PHPdoc, you'd do it like this:
>
> > /*
> > ?* @param type $foo Description.
> > ?*
> > ?* @return type Description.
> > ?*/
> > function bar($foo) {
> > ? ...
> > }
>
> > Is there an equivalentconventionI (c|sh)ould be using in my Python
> > docstrings? I saw that Python 3 has function annotations, which could
> > be used for this purpose, but function annotations have no particular
> > purpose within the language itself (which seems like a mistake to me),
> > and they don't exist in the Python 2.x series (at least not the older
> > versions).
>
> Different strategies here:
>
> 1/ most doc builders propose their own format. You can stick to it if
> you don't want to use another builder (e.g. epydoc has a specific syntax
> to document signatures)
> 2/ Use a 'standard' format, usually these formats are a bit more formal
> but they gain in portability, most builders support these formats.
> reStructuredText is one of them and supported by all python doc builders.
>
> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-othermarkup.html
>
> JM

Thanks for the link, Jean-Michel. I was hoping to find out more about
how this is don in reStructuredText, since that seems to be what's
used to document Python at docs.python.org. There is a section in the
page that you linked to which describes how documenting function
parameters in reST works, which seems to be what I was looking for.


From orgnut at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 22:09:45 2010
From: orgnut at yahoo.com (Larry Hudson)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:09:45 -0800
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>

Quin wrote:
> s = f.readline()
> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
> if 'mystring' in s:
>    print 'processing'
> 
> this generates output:
> not found
> processing
> 
> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.
> 
> This is using IronPython

As others have already said, this _does_ work properly.

But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:

if 'mystring' not in s:
     print 'not found'
else:
     print 'foundit'
     print 'processing'

      -=- Larry -=-


From quindennis at grandecom.net  Tue Feb  9 22:30:52 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:30:52 -0600
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching to 
PyScripter and will test tomorrow.

"Larry Hudson" <orgnut at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d at giganews.com...
> Quin wrote:
>> s = f.readline()
>> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
>> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
>> if 'mystring' in s:
>>    print 'processing'
>>
>> this generates output:
>> not found
>> processing
>>
>> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.
>>
>> This is using IronPython
>
> As others have already said, this _does_ work properly.
>
> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>
> if 'mystring' not in s:
>     print 'not found'
> else:
>     print 'foundit'
>     print 'processing'
>
>      -=- Larry -=- 



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Feb  9 22:36:50 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:36:50 -0600
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>

Larry Hudson wrote:
> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
> 
> if 'mystring' not in s:
>      print 'not found'
> else:
>      print 'foundit'
>      print 'processing'

I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as 
Larry does, or as

   if 'mystring' in s
     print 'foundit'
     print 'processing'
   else:
     print 'not found'

removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over 
the other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really 
nail down.  I think one of my major influencing factors revolves 
around the negative "not" portion having one or two lines and the 
  positive portion having a large block of code.  If the 
code-blocks are more equal in size, I tend to use "if 
{positive}", but if the negative "not" section is only 1-2 lines, 
I tend to do as Larry writes and make it harder to miss by using 
"if {negative}".  Otherwise the "if {positive}...else" can end up 
sufficiently distant from the "if" that it's easy to miss.

Any thoughts on how others make the choice?

-tkc




From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Feb  9 22:54:17 2010
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:54:17 +1100
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
References: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <20100210035417.GA5737@cskk.homeip.net>

On 09Feb2010 21:36, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
| Larry Hudson wrote:
| >But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
| >
| >if 'mystring' not in s:
| >     print 'not found'
| >else:
| >     print 'foundit'
| >     print 'processing'
| 
| I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as
| Larry does, or as
| 
|   if 'mystring' in s
|     print 'foundit'
|     print 'processing'
|   else:
|     print 'not found'
| 
| removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over
| the other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really
| nail down.  I think one of my major influencing factors revolves
| around the negative "not" portion having one or two lines and the
| positive portion having a large block of code.  If the code-blocks
| are more equal in size, I tend to use "if {positive}", but if the
| negative "not" section is only 1-2 lines, I tend to do as Larry
| writes and make it harder to miss by using "if {negative}".
| Otherwise the "if {positive}...else" can end up sufficiently distant
| from the "if" that it's easy to miss.

I do it like you, usually: if one branch is small, it comes first, the other
branch is easily in sight under the "else". Otherwise, I tend to go with "if
{positive}", or at any rate "if {the easiest-to-read-form-of-the-test}" if it
all still reads well.  If the program flow gets ugly one way, that breaks
"still reads well" and can be cause to flip the condition.

In loops my tendency is a bit less flexible; I often have code like
this:

  while ...:
    if winnowing-test:
      whinge
      set flag
      continue or break, depending
    main body of loop here...

Not a lot of choice about positive/negative in that scenario,
though it fits well with the first criterion.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

A Master is someone who started before you did. - Gary Zukav


From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Tue Feb  9 22:58:02 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:58:02 -0600
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <eae285401002091958h7802d436sf67fb88ec69be546@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

> removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over the other
> based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really nail down.  I think
> one of my major influencing factors revolves around the negative "not"
> portion having one or two lines and the  positive portion having a large
> block of code.


If one block is much shorter, I tend to put the shorter block first.  That
way, the "else" and the "if" are almost always on the screen together at the
same time.  If they're both long, I factor out one or both of the blocks
into functions.

--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com/>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 23:01:31 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:01:31 -0500
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <hktb6d$m53$1@ger.gmane.org>

Quin wrote:
> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching
> to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
> 
I'd be very surprised to find that something as basic as this was wrong
with IronPython. Complex commercial software has been built on it, so
there's little question that the platform is sound.

Are you *sure* you copied and pasted the session you listed?

regards
 Steve

> "Larry Hudson" <orgnut at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d at giganews.com...
>> Quin wrote:
>>> s = f.readline()
>>> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
>>> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
>>> if 'mystring' in s:
>>>    print 'processing'
>>>
>>> this generates output:
>>> not found
>>> processing
>>>
>>> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.
>>>
>>> This is using IronPython
>>
>> As others have already said, this _does_ work properly.
>>
>> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>>
>> if 'mystring' not in s:
>>     print 'not found'
>> else:
>>     print 'foundit'
>>     print 'processing'
>>
>>      -=- Larry -=- 
> 


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 23:05:09 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:05:09 -0800
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <eae285401002091958h7802d436sf67fb88ec69be546@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com> 
	<eae285401002091958h7802d436sf67fb88ec69be546@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002092005k7b8f6a2csec1ea5a8c28ec530@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Daniel Stutzbach <
daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:
>
>> removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over the
>> other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really nail down.  I
>> think one of my major influencing factors revolves around the negative "not"
>> portion having one or two lines and the  positive portion having a large
>> block of code.
>
>
> If one block is much shorter, I tend to put the shorter block first.  That
> way, the "else" and the "if" are almost always on the screen together at the
> same time.  If they're both long, I factor out one or both of the blocks
> into functions.
>

Agree 100%.

I like whatever the little branch is to be first, with the big branch
falling into the "else:". It reads better then to have an "else:" at the end
with only a line or two: in such a situation what 'else' is doesn't really
have direct meaning, you have to look too far up to connect it to the "if"
logic. Comments shouldn't be needed-- if an "else:" falls too far away from
the "if" then scrolling around and looking for the code, it won't be
immediately obvious in meaning.

And if both branches are fairly long, it tends to imply that I just might
benefit from some more functions to re-organize logic into manageable
chunks. Then again, general rule of thumb? If a function is not entirely
visible on my screen, it might imply I might benefit from some more
functions. Though this is not anything like a hard rule.

--S
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From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 23:09:37 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:09:37 +0100
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hktbe8$h6c$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Tim Chase:
> Larry Hudson wrote:
>> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>>
>> if 'mystring' not in s:
>>      print 'not found'
>> else:
>>      print 'foundit'
>>      print 'processing'
> 
> I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as Larry 
> does, or as
> 
>   if 'mystring' in s
>     print 'foundit'
>     print 'processing'
>   else:
>     print 'not found'
> 
> removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over the 
> other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really nail 
> down.  I think one of my major influencing factors revolves around the 
> negative "not" portion having one or two lines and the  positive portion 
> having a large block of code.  If the code-blocks are more equal in 
> size, I tend to use "if {positive}", but if the negative "not" section 
> is only 1-2 lines, I tend to do as Larry writes and make it harder to 
> miss by using "if {negative}".  Otherwise the "if {positive}...else" can 
> end up sufficiently distant from the "if" that it's easy to miss.
> 
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?

I think it spills over from the practice of checking preconditions first, e.g. 
returning or raising exceptions or whatever.

This avoids silly n-level nesting of the main "normal case" part.


Cheers,

- Alf


From python at bdurham.com  Tue Feb  9 23:45:28 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:45:28 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
Message-ID: <1265777128.24758.1359202989@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
'picture' format?

For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
transformation myself?

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 00:24:20 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:24:20 -0800
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <1265777128.24758.1359202989@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1265777128.24758.1359202989@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002092124v51815151m96042ed8483afe23@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:45 PM, <python at bdurham.com> wrote:

> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a 'picture'
> format?
>
> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted like
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will allow me to do
> this or do I need to code this type of transformation myself?
>

Although I usually don't jump to suggesting regular expressions, its the
easiest way I can figure out to do this.

>>> import re
>>> >>> print re.sub(r"(\d{3})(\d{2})(\d{3})(\d)", r"(\1)-\2-(\3)[\4]",
"123456789")
(123)-45-(678)[9]

--S
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From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb 10 01:41:46 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:41:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7c76a725-bd88-41a0-9867-820b82b872e7@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 10:10?am, Grant Edwards <inva... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>
On Feb 9, 10:10 am, Grant Edwards <inva... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>

I made repeated calls to time.clock() in a generator expression, which
is as fast a loop I can think of in Python.  Then I computed the
successive time deltas to see if any granularities jumped out.  Here
are the results:

>>> import time
>>> from itertools import groupby
>>>
>>> # get about 1000 different values of time.clock()
>>> ts = set(time.clock() for i in range(1000))
>>>
>>> # sort in ascending order
>>> ts = sorted(ts)
>>>
>>> # compute diffs between adjacent time values
>>> diffs = [j-i for i,j in zip(ts[:-1],ts[1:])]
>>>
>>> # sort and group
>>> diffs.sort()
>>> diffgroups = groupby(diffs)
>>>
>>> # print the distribution of time differences in microseconds
>>> for i in diffgroups: print "%3d %12.6f" % (len(list(i[1])), i[0]*1e6)
...
 25     2.234921
 28     2.234921
242     2.514286
506     2.514286
 45     2.793651
116     2.793651
  1     3.073016
  8     3.073016
  6     3.352381
  4     3.631746
  3     3.911112
  1     3.911112
  5     4.190477
  2     4.469842
  1     6.146033
  1     8.660319
  1     9.777779
  1    10.895239
  1    11.174605
  1    24.304765
  1    41.904767

There seems to be a step size of about .28 microseconds.  So I would
guess time.clock() has enough resolution.  But also beware of the
overhead of the calls to clock() - using timeit, I find that each call
takes about 2 microseconds (consistent with the smallest time
difference in the above data set).

-- Paul


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 01:47:40 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:47:40 -0800
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002092247g2a3a2c4bt6e93921a73c005c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Quin <quindennis at grandecom.net> wrote:

> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching to
> PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>

The chance of this being the case is vanishingly small.

Provide real code, copy-pasted directly from a real file, and showing real
results that demonstrate this behavior.

There is no way that IronProfile is so utterly and fundamentally broken that
such a simple and basic function doesn't work like this. There's no way that
what you've shown us as describing the behavior is -really- what's
happening. You seem to be paraphrasing code to illustrate a problem: but
that's leaving out what's -really- causing the problem that you think isn't
related, but really is.

--S
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From darcy at druid.net  Wed Feb 10 01:51:32 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:51:32 -0500
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <20100210015132.3808f0d5.darcy@druid.net>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems constituted logical 
> fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical fallacies.

Yes they are.  Using the reputation of someone to prove or disprove
their claims is a logical fallacy.

> For example, if a person is a chronic liar, has a known history of lying, then 
> that can have a strong bearing on whether the person's claims  --  technical or 
> about other persons  --  should be seriously considered[1].

Yes but it's still a fallacy.  Taking the author's history into account
may be valid for deciding that further investigation is warranted but by
itself it does not prove anything about the claims.  Suggesting that it
does is fallacious.

"Bill is a liar therefore his statement is false" is a fallacy.  "Bill
is a liar so take his claims with a grain of salt" is not.

There is another case.  "Bill never tells the truth therefore his
claim is wrong" is not an ad hominem fallacy.  It's a sylogism.  It may
or may not be correct but if the first statement is true (Bill always
lies) then the the conclusion is true.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From howe.steven at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 02:06:24 2010
From: howe.steven at gmail.com (Steven Howe)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:06:24 -0800
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <20100210015132.3808f0d5.darcy@druid.net>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<20100210015132.3808f0d5.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <4B725AF0.9030803@gmail.com>

Really, is this a relevant topic on a program mail list? You guys need 
to get a room and start discussing angel counts on pinheads under the 
blankets.

sph

On 02/09/2010 10:51 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
> "Alf P. Steinbach"<alfps at start.no>  wrote:
>    
>> However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems constituted logical
>> fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical fallacies.
>>      
> Yes they are.  Using the reputation of someone to prove or disprove
> their claims is a logical fallacy.
>
>    
>> For example, if a person is a chronic liar, has a known history of lying, then
>> that can have a strong bearing on whether the person's claims  --  technical or
>> about other persons  --  should be seriously considered[1].
>>      
> Yes but it's still a fallacy.  Taking the author's history into account
> may be valid for deciding that further investigation is warranted but by
> itself it does not prove anything about the claims.  Suggesting that it
> does is fallacious.
>
> "Bill is a liar therefore his statement is false" is a fallacy.  "Bill
> is a liar so take his claims with a grain of salt" is not.
>
> There is another case.  "Bill never tells the truth therefore his
> claim is wrong" is not an ad hominem fallacy.  It's a sylogism.  It may
> or may not be correct but if the first statement is true (Bill always
> lies) then the the conclusion is true.
>
>    



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 10 02:41:53 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:41:53 +1100
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2279.1265784717.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wrylh70e.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy at druid.net> writes:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> > However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems
> > constituted logical fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical
> > fallacies.
>
> Yes they are.  Using the reputation of someone to prove or disprove
> their claims is a logical fallacy.

The trouble is, the bulk of statements Alf is calling ?ad hominem
attack? are, if one actually reads them, a criticism of his person. Not
intended as a connecting claim in an argument, but a claim *distinct
from* the argument Alf is engaged in.

So they're *not intended* to prove or disprove the specific claims that
immediately precede them. They're intended, at least partly, to provoke
self-reflection on the part of the person criticised and, ideally, an
improvement in behaviour.

Failure to recognise a criticism as such, and instead repeatedly
flinging the term ?ad hominem? around as though it has any bearing, is
an example of behaviour that could easily be improved, if only the
person engaging in it would stop.

-- 
 \      ?You've got to think about big things while you're doing small |
  `\              things, so that all the small things go in the right |
_o__)                                       direction.? ?Alvin Toffler |
Ben Finney


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 02:43:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 23:43:17 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
[abundant snips which do not accurately represent who said what where due to
my own laziness]

>  Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
>>>>
>>> I thought the answer could help.
>>>
>>> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
>>>
>>> That's the difference between us.
>>>
>>>  Well, the way I see it, you assumed you knew better than Stephen, and
>> insisted on proposing a solution to a problem that he clearly stated he
>> had no interest in.
>>
>
> You're going into motivations, that it seems to me that you're projecting,
> saying that any helpful suggestion mean that one thinks one knows better and
> implies a desire to demonstrate imagined superiority.
>
> You're trying to portray a helping hand as a negative personal
> characteristic of the helper.
>
> "the only reason that guy tries to help you is because he wishes to show
> how superior he (thinks he) is".
>
> That's your style in a fair number of postings, and now here:
>
>  * ad hominem attack,
>

I am, frankly, tired of this.

Please stop this overly obsessive sensitivity towards what you think are "ad
hominem" attacks. Just drop it. Its worthless. It degrades you. Your
arguments are frequently nothing more then, "I define the world this way and
you do not disagree so I declare your argument invalid". You've dismissed at
least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of, "That's invalid,
cuz." The thing is, there was no basis for 'cuz' beyond "In my own head this
is what I think, this is how I'm defining words"

The response of others to such arguments has been, "Do you /really/ need to
be so absolutely right in everything?!" which is said in frustration,
irritation and with deep sighing.

And then begins the loud declarations of ad hominem attacks.

Its not productive. It doesn't help your case or arguments.

Its tired.

It doesn't make your case. It doesn't make anyone but you look bad. Every
time you go on about, "YOU ARE AD HOMINEM'N ME!", you just make yourself
look worse.

Yeah. People can be snarky in a community. Maybe... MAYBE... Steve Holden is
periodically a little snarky at you. It is not without reason. And your
declarations of his ad hominem attacks against you comes off as nothing but
base /whining/.

Just drop it.

Its boring.

Also...

I'm not quite sure, given that, what the point of the advice was.
>>
>
> There are many people who read just the Usenet group, e.g. via Google
> groups.
>
> When you say you don't understand the point of the advice, you're saying
> that
>
>  * those people don't matter, and that
>
>  * it doesn't matter whether they can read Stephen Hansen's articles.
>
> That's
>
>  * slighting Stephen Hansen, and
>
>  * showing off an extreme ego-centric view of the world,
>

Please do NOT presume to take up my defense on ANY level.

I can handle myself, thank you.

I have said as much on two occasions that I don't know why some people seem
unable to see my postings on usenet, and that despite this, I don't really
care. It is not worth it to me to make my voice known to every possible
listener in the world. I don't have sufficient vanity to assume that I need
to be heard.

I speak when it interests me to speak; and if heard, perhaps I'm listened
to. Perhaps they will be helped. Perhaps they will not. Perhaps someone will
argue with me. Perhaps we will both benefit from this debate and the
exchange of ideas. That's the ideal situation, of course. Discourse and
debate leading to new understanding. But I don't need anyone to defend my
place in such discourse.

I do not want, and utterly reject, anyone else standing up and taking any
sort of stand on my behalf related to if someone else has slighted me.

If and when I feel that I have been slighted, I will react accordingly. If
Steve Holden slighted me in any way (he has not), I am more then capable of
saying so on my own. I'd tell the BDFL he was an ass if he were an ass (he
is not!) if I thought it was warranted.

Thank you, but the value of my contribution to the community is a
determination that I will make based on my own interest to share; and a
determination those who do read me will make based on their interest to
respond. If I needed everyone to hear me, I'd start up a blog and post rants
all the time. If I felt that my contribution were not being heard fairly
according to its worth, I'd try to take steps to make sure I was.

--S
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From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 02:53:53 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:53:53 +0100
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <87wrylh70e.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2279.1265784717.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87wrylh70e.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hktoio$ao1$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ben Finney:
> "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy at druid.net> writes:
> 
>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>> However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems
>>> constituted logical fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical
>>> fallacies.
>> Yes they are.  Using the reputation of someone to prove or disprove
>> their claims is a logical fallacy.
> 
> The trouble is, the bulk of statements Alf is calling ?ad hominem
> attack? are, if one actually reads them, a criticism of his person. Not
> intended as a connecting claim in an argument, but a claim *distinct
> from* the argument Alf is engaged in.

That's false. Happily anyone can check back, e.g. up-thread here.

Judging by the last few months the number of persons engaging in ad hominem 
attacks in this group is small, counted on one hand with possibly one finger 
from the other hand to help. They're very active. But happily, few.

However, in the other non-moderated groups I participate in the number of such 
persons is essentially *zero*, not counting sporadic visits from trolls.


> So they're *not intended* to prove or disprove the specific claims that
> immediately precede them. They're intended, at least partly, to provoke
> self-reflection on the part of the person criticised and, ideally, an
> improvement in behaviour.

And that's ad hominem, implying unacceptable behavior on my part, which if you 
could back up you'd cited.


> Failure to recognise a criticism as such, and instead repeatedly
> flinging the term ?ad hominem? around as though it has any bearing, is
> an example of behaviour that could easily be improved, if only the
> person engaging in it would stop.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 02:55:10 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:55:10 +0000
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.2256.1265757796.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2sk99y17l.fsf@googlemail.com>

Malte Helmert <helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:

> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>
>> This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
>> detected had I LBYLed, i.e. instead of
>> 
>>     try:
>>         return val.latex()
>>     except AttributeError:
>>         ...
>> 
>> do
>> 
>>     if hasattr(val, 'latex'):
>>         return val.latex()
>>     else:
>>         ...
>> 
>> 
>> So was it wrong to say it's EAFP in this case?
>
> I would say that it's not really the EAFP concept that is problematic
> here, but rather that the try block encompasses more code than it
> should. Generally try blocks should be as narrow as possible, i.e., they
> should contain only the part where you really want to catch a potential
> failure.
>
> "return val.latex()" does two separate things that might fail: the
> lookup of val.latex, and the actual method call. If I understood you
> correctly, you only want to catch the AttributeError in the "val.latex"
> lookup here, and hence I'd say the "correct" application of EAFP here
> would be something like:
>
> try:
>     foo = val.latex
> except AttributeError:
>     ...
> else:
>     return foo()
>
> Whether that's any better than LBYL in this particular case is of course
> debatable -- one nice thing compared to your LBYL version is that it
> doesn't look up val.latex twice upon success. But you could also get
> that via the LBYLish:
>
> latex_method = getattr(val, "latex")
> if latex_method:
>     return latex_method()
> 

Ben, Malte,

Thanks for your informative replies.  I can now see where my blind spot
was and that I never really used EAFP properly before.  I think I will
go with one of the two solutions above (probably the second) as I feel
it's a bit heavy handed to create a closure and perhaps call it every
time the latex() function is called.

Matthew,

You are right.  Believe me I am fully aware of this.  To my shame I have
many thousands lines of Python without any tests in this project and I
don't even know where to start...

Thanks again,

-- 
Arnaud


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 03:13:22 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:13:22 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Stephen Hansen:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no 
> <mailto:alfps at start.no>> wrote:
> [abundant snips which do not accurately represent who said what where 
> due to my own laziness]
> 
>                     Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly
>                     to gmane?
> 
>                 Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
> 
>             I thought the answer could help.
> 
>             You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
> 
>             That's the difference between us.
> 
>         Well, the way I see it, you assumed you knew better than
>         Stephen, and
>         insisted on proposing a solution to a problem that he clearly
>         stated he
>         had no interest in.
> 
> 
>     You're going into motivations, that it seems to me that you're
>     projecting, saying that any helpful suggestion mean that one thinks
>     one knows better and implies a desire to demonstrate imagined
>     superiority.
> 
>     You're trying to portray a helping hand as a negative personal
>     characteristic of the helper.
> 
>     "the only reason that guy tries to help you is because he wishes to
>     show how superior he (thinks he) is".
> 
>     That's your style in a fair number of postings, and now here:
> 
>      * ad hominem attack,
> 
> 
> I am, frankly, tired of this.
> 
> Please stop this overly obsessive sensitivity towards what you think are 
> "ad hominem" attacks. Just drop it. Its worthless. It degrades you. Your 
> arguments are frequently nothing more then, "I define the world this way 
> and you do not disagree so I declare your argument invalid".

I'm happy that even though that may (with some low probability) be your actual 
opinion, it's incorrect.


> You've 
> dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of, 
> "That's invalid, cuz."

That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.


> The thing is, there was no basis for 'cuz' beyond 
> "In my own head this is what I think, this is how I'm defining words"

That's also a lie, and it's not a quote of me.

And just to be clear, as anyone can see by looking up-thread, generally, 
contrary to your claims, I give references for whatever that I suspect might be 
genuinely misunderstood.

And so I've done in (nearly) every article in the original thread, especially 
for the terms, and still people have posted articles apparently mis-interpreting 
those terms in very non-sensible ways  --  one gets tired of that, yes.


> The response of others to such arguments has been, "Do you /really/ need 
> to be so absolutely right in everything?!" which is said in frustration, 
> irritation and with deep sighing. 

It's true that that kind of insinuative arguments have been used in this group, yes.

It goes to alleged motives and alleged history instead of the technical, that 
is, it is a purely personal attack.

So, ironically, you're here citing one kind of hominem attack  --  not exactly 
clever when you're arguing that such does not occur.


> And then begins the loud declarations of ad hominem attacks. 
> 
> Its not productive. It doesn't help your case or arguments.
> 
> Its tired.
> 
> It doesn't make your case. It doesn't make anyone but you look bad. 
> Every time you go on about, "YOU ARE AD HOMINEM'N ME!", you just make 
> yourself look worse.
> 
> Yeah. People can be snarky in a community. Maybe... MAYBE... Steve 
> Holden is periodically a little snarky at you. It is not without reason. 
> And your declarations of his ad hominem attacks against you comes off as 
> nothing but base /whining/.
> 
> Just drop it. 
> 
> Its boring.
> 
> Also...
> 
>         I'm not quite sure, given that, what the point of the advice was.
> 
> 
>     There are many people who read just the Usenet group, e.g. via
>     Google groups.
> 
>     When you say you don't understand the point of the advice, you're
>     saying that
> 
>      * those people don't matter, and that
> 
>      * it doesn't matter whether they can read Stephen Hansen's articles.
> 
>     That's
> 
>      * slighting Stephen Hansen, and
> 
>      * showing off an extreme ego-centric view of the world,
> 
> 
> Please do NOT presume to take up my defense on ANY level.
> 
> I can handle myself, thank you. 

I do offer unsolicited help now and then, as I gave you and for which Steve 
Holden decided that a bit of personal attack would be suitable.

But my help was just as much in order to help others (who can't read your 
non-propagated articles) as in order to help you personally. That's the spirit 
of Usenet in many other groups. One just helps out, and often the reaction is a 
"thank you" instead of an ad hominem attack (as with Steve Holden) or, as in 
your case, faked quotes and general lies, which is border-line ad hominem.

Anyway, please stop post faked quotes and general lies, as you do above.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:27:24 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:27:24 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100027q377d902cp9578312c7dffe9cc@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> You've dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
>> "That's invalid, cuz."
>>
>
> That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.
>
>
>
>  The thing is, there was no basis for 'cuz' beyond "In my own head this is
>> what I think, this is how I'm defining words"
>>
>
> That's also a lie, and it's not a quote of me.
>


On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>
> Anyway, please stop post faked quotes and general lies, as you do above.


Wow. If that's your argument, I question your sanity.

None of the "quotes" were faked. None of the "quotes" were lies.

If a message were intended as an actual quotation of another's words, I'd
include actual citation. That a message is included in quotation-characters
does not make it an actual citation.

They are, quite obviously IMHO, paraphrased references to how I evaluate
your arguments.

The word "cuz" alone seems to make that very, very, very, very, very, very
obvious.

Get over yourself.

Seriously.

Quote marks don't make a quotation. If and when I choose to quote you, I
will quote you. You will see a line saying, as you see above, "On <date>,
Alf <etc> wrote:"

>
>> I can handle myself, thank you.
>>
>
> I do offer unsolicited help now and then, as I gave you and for which Steve
> Holden decided that a bit of personal attack would be suitable.
>
> But my help was just as much in order to help others (who can't read your
> non-propagated articles) as in order to help you personally. That's the
> spirit of Usenet in many other groups. One just helps out, and often the
> reaction is a "thank you" instead of an ad hominem attack (as with Steve
> Holden) or, as in your case, faked quotes and general lies, which is
> border-line ad hominem.
>

I reject the assistance of you-- or anyone else-- to make my voice heard.

You do not speak for me.

You will not speak for me.

I speak for myself, thank you. Do not presume to subjugate my voice by
defending it for your purposes.

Anyway, please stop post faked quotes and general lies, as you do above.


I didn't. You're nuts if you think I did.

--S
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From dickinsm at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:31:43 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:31:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
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Message-ID: <f7627dc3-0735-4e9f-bf8d-b83d1186cb63@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 6:47?pm, Martin Drautzburg <Martin.Drautzb... at web.de> wrote:
> BTW I am not really trying to add three objects, I wanted a third object
> which controls the way the addition is done. Sort of like "/" and "//"
> which are two different ways of doing division.

That seems like a reasonable use case for a third parameter to
__add__, though as others have pointed out the only way to pass the
third argument is to call __add__ explicitly.  Here's an extract from
the decimal module:

class Decimal(object):

    ...

    def __add__(self, other, context=None):
        other = _convert_other(other)
        if other is NotImplemented:
            return other

        if context is None:
            context = getcontext()

        <add 'self' and 'other' in context 'context'>

    ...

And here's how it's used in the decimal.Context module:

class Context(object):

    ...

    def add(self, a, b):
        """Return the sum of the two operands.

        >>> ExtendedContext.add(Decimal('12'), Decimal('7.00'))
        Decimal('19.00')
        >>> ExtendedContext.add(Decimal('1E+2'), Decimal('1.01E+4'))
        Decimal('1.02E+4')
        """
        return a.__add__(b, context=self)

--
Mark


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Feb 10 03:40:44 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:40:44 +0000
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hktred$utd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/10/10 03:36, Tim Chase wrote:
> Larry Hudson wrote:
>> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>>
>> if 'mystring' not in s:
>> print 'not found'
>> else:
>> print 'foundit'
>> print 'processing'
>
> I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as Larry
> does, or as
>
> if 'mystring' in s
> print 'foundit'
> print 'processing'
> else:
> print 'not found'

<cut>
>
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?
>
I cases like this when aesthetics are not that much of a deal breaker, I 
usually put the condition which I think will be the true the majority of 
the time first.
This is not for performance reasons (never tested whether this has any 
effect) but more documentation like purpose to go from a most expected 
case to the least expected one. YMMV

-- 
mph


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:41:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:41:02 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002100027q377d902cp9578312c7dffe9cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002100027q377d902cp9578312c7dffe9cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100041n17dbdce4ycce5f9eb974b9940@mail.gmail.com>

>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>
>> I do offer unsolicited help now and then, as I gave you and for which
>>> Steve Holden decided that a bit of personal attack would be suitable.
>>
>>
Really, I do have to say.

It's one thing to say, "Aren't you being rude?" (please note, this is not an
actual quotation of any actual person, and I feel it is required I make this
disclaimer since you have shown you are unable to differentiate a statement
paraphrased in quotation marks from an actual quotation and citation of
another's words)

It's another thing entirely to decide on your own to be my champion and
choose to speak for me in my defense.

The former is someone offering unsolicited help; the latter I find more then
a little insulting.

--S
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From dickinsm at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:42:05 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:42:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<8281270.AG5xCW3FSB@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<f7627dc3-0735-4e9f-bf8d-b83d1186cb63@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <67d10050-7553-4c88-8dbb-f51c19cb2b5e@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 8:31?am, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> And here's how it's used in the decimal.Context module:

Aargh!  decimal.Context *class*, not module.

And it occurs to me that it would have been cleaner to have
Decimal.__add__ call Context.add rather than the other way around.
Then Decimal.__add__ could have stayed a two-argument function, as
<deity of your choice> intended.  Oh well.

--
Mark


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:58:37 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:58:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 11:01?am, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> KlausNeuner, 09.02.2010 10:04:
>
> > my program is supposed to parse files that I have created myself and that
> > are on my laptop. It is not supposed to interact with anybody else
> > than me.
>
> Famous last words.
>
> Stefan

All right, I admit that eval() is evil and should never be used. Under
no circumstances. (Which is, of course, the reason, why Python has
eval().) The same applies to knives. You shouldn't use them. You
shouldn't even use them in your own kitchen. A man might enter your
kitchen, take your knife away and use it against you.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 10 04:28:20 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:28:20 +0100
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <00fb7592$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<00fb7592$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4b727c27$0$10168$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:49:21 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>> Not that much C++ in Python, IMHO. If that's for the OO part, then the
>> closer to Python's object model I can think of is javascript.
> 
> I thought that Javascript didn't even have inheritance until recently? 

If you mean "class inheritance", it's obviously not something you'd 
expect to find in a prototype based language. But inheritance works with 
prototypes too.



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 10 04:45:37 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:45:37 +0100
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
Message-ID: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:

> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
> 'picture' format?
> 
> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
> transformation myself?

A basic implementation without regular expressions:

>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
...     parts = pic.split(placeholder)
...     result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
...     result[::2] = parts
...     result[1::2] = s
...     return "".join(result)
...
>>>
>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
'(123)-45-(678)[9]'

Peter


From nad at acm.org  Wed Feb 10 05:11:59 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:11:59 -0800
Subject: mac install
References: <a73f2cb2-d748-4ddb-a84a-ff2e6d14149f@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-AE0B27.02115810022010@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<a73f2cb2-d748-4ddb-a84a-ff2e6d14149f at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
 Thomas Nelson <thomasharrisonnelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> I downloaded the 3.1.1 dmg from http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.1.1/
> but when I run it I get the error "The folowing install step failed:
> run postflight script for python documentation."  The bugs list has
> this bug at http://bugs.python.org/issue6934 but it's described as
> fixed.  Is it only fixed for the source version?  Where should I go to
> install?

Unfortunately, there hasn't been a release of Python 3.1 since 3.1.1.  
On the other hand, the problem isn't critical: it only prevents the 
installation from creating the .pyc compiled byte-code files for the 
python files in the standard library.  Python 3.1.1 should run just 
fine, albeit sometimes a bit slower, without them.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From quindennis at grandecom.net  Wed Feb 10 05:21:44 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:21:44 -0600
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

Well, PyScripter works find with that code.  Furthermore, the 
un-intellisense in IronPython was problematic, inserting the wrong things, 
which I had to erase.

Also, there were some code constructs IronPython let pass that PyScripter 
didn't, namely, print(), PyScripter requires the ()

Something simple, like:
 n = -1
 if n <> -1:
     print('fell through')

falls through to the print.

So, I don't know what the problem is with IronPython, perhaps it isn't 
compatible with Python v3, but on my machine, at least, it doesn't perform.

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Quin wrote:
>> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching
>> to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>>
> I'd be very surprised to find that something as basic as this was wrong
> with IronPython. Complex commercial software has been built on it, so
> there's little question that the platform is sound.
>
> Are you *sure* you copied and pasted the session you listed?
>
> regards
> Steve
>
>> "Larry Hudson" <orgnut at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d at giganews.com...
>>> Quin wrote:
>>>> s = f.readline()
>>>> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
>>>> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
>>>> if 'mystring' in s:
>>>>    print 'processing'
>>>>
>>>> this generates output:
>>>> not found
>>>> processing
>>>>
>>>> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code 
>>>> anyway.
>>>>
>>>> This is using IronPython
>>>
>>> As others have already said, this _does_ work properly.
>>>
>>> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>>>
>>> if 'mystring' not in s:
>>>     print 'not found'
>>> else:
>>>     print 'foundit'
>>>     print 'processing'
>>>
>>>      -=- Larry -=-
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/
> 



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 05:22:12 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:22:12 +0100
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <4B7288D4.8010704@sequans.com>

Quin wrote:
> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm 
> switching to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>
>
I'm willing to bet money that it is not. If ironPython had a broken if 
statement, don't you think we would have known, already ?

There's a rule when test writing/testing code:
"if you think the compiler is wrong, then you are wrong twice."

JM


From quindennis at grandecom.net  Wed Feb 10 05:23:43 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:23:43 -0600
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

Well, now you know!

"Jean-Michel Pichavant" <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Quin wrote:
>> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching 
>> to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>>
>>
> I'm willing to bet money that it is not. If ironPython had a broken if 
> statement, don't you think we would have known, already ?
>
> There's a rule when test writing/testing code:
> "if you think the compiler is wrong, then you are wrong twice."
>
> JM 



From olof.bjarnason at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 05:50:45 2010
From: olof.bjarnason at gmail.com (Olof Bjarnason)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:50:45 +0100
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c3dfe1d1002100250x56a7f081v5a02d7182d89b5c0@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/10 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>:
> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>
>> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
>> 'picture' format?
>>
>> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
>> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
>> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
>> transformation myself?
>
> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>
>>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
> ... ? ? parts = pic.split(placeholder)
> ... ? ? result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
> ... ? ? result[::2] = parts
> ... ? ? result[1::2] = s
> ... ? ? return "".join(result)
> ...
>>>>
>>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>
> Peter
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Inspired by your answer here's another version:

>>> def picture(s, pic):
...   if len(s)==0: return pic
...   if pic[0]=='#': return s[0]+picture(s[1:], pic[1:])
...   return pic[0]+picture(s, pic[1:])
...
>>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
'(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>>>

-- 
http://olofb.wordpress.com


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 05:53:46 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:53:46 +0100
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <4B72903A.1030404@sequans.com>

Quin wrote:
> Well, now you know!
>
> "Jean-Michel Pichavant" <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote in message 
> news:mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Quin wrote:
>>> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm 
>>> switching to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>>>
>>>
>> I'm willing to bet money that it is not. If ironPython had a broken 
>> if statement, don't you think we would have known, already ?
>>
>> There's a rule when test writing/testing code:
>> "if you think the compiler is wrong, then you are wrong twice."
>>
>> JM 
>

All I know is that you are using a python implementation that does not 
support python 3. No wonder why your py3 code fails.

Please do not top post.

JM


    IronPython

    * Stable Version is 2.0.3 (targeting Python 2.5)
    * Developers Version is 2.6 Beta 3 (targeting Python 2.6)



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 06:06:37 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:06:37 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002100306o4c0b9962n86e151b15bb7322e@mail.gmail.com>

>> All algorithms in obfuscate are obsolete, insecure and only
>> interesting for people *that* want to get well educated in the history
>> of encryption.
>
> Not true. Another use case is suggested by the chosen name for the
> library: to obfuscate text against casual human reading, while not
> making it at all difficult to decrypt by people who are motivated to do
> so.
>
> The classic example is rot-13 encryption of text in internet messages;
> it would be a failure of imagination to suggest there are not other,
> similar use cases.

I fully agree. Judging by the posts on c.l.p the need for simple
obfuscation regularly comes up. I also posted something not so long
ago and got all sorts of useful advice, a package here, a module
there, etc. It also turned out that everybody mostly writes his/her
own obfuscation routine. That is why I suggested that perhaps if the
code base stabilizes an inclusion into the stdlib could be discussed.
I'm not sure it really needs to go there but if it turns out that as
many people need this kind of stuff as I imagine it, well, then we
have enough use cases for sure.

>> Grab pycrypto, m2crypto or one of the other packages if you need a
>> minimum amount of security.
>
> Agreed. However, for cases that *don't* need security from determined
> attackers, I don't think those obviate the usefulness of this library.

Exactly.

Cheers,
Daniel




-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Feb 10 06:12:26 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:12:26 +0000
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002100312j39c775ddi736af6693e1e2549@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 February 2010 03:36, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?

There are two criteria that I use here. I'll often tend towards the
positive test; it's just that little bit easier to comprehend, I
think. On the other hand, if one case is overwhelmingly more common,
I'll usually put that first even if it does mean using a negative
test.

I'm not buying the short-case-first argument. If the code in a case
block is long enough for that to matter, it really belongs in a
function of its own anyway.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Feb 10 06:23:01 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:23:01 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002100323v1650769dob3d0411a0c5b08c8@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 February 2010 01:24, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> The classic example is rot-13 encryption of text in internet messages;
> it would be a failure of imagination to suggest there are not other,
> similar use cases.

That's built-in:

>>> "Hello World!".encode('rot-13')
'Uryyb Jbeyq!'

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Feb 10 06:27:48 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:27:48 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c61002100323v1650769dob3d0411a0c5b08c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<8c7f10c61002100323v1650769dob3d0411a0c5b08c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B729834.7050606@timgolden.me.uk>

On 10/02/2010 11:23, Simon Brunning wrote:
> "Hello World!".encode('rot-13')

Not any more!

<dump>
Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009,
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or
>>> "Hello World!".encode('rot-13')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
LookupError: unknown encoding: rot-13
>>>


</dump>

TJG


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 06:45:47 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:45:47 +0100
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Olof Bjarnason:
> 2010/2/10 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>:
>> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>>
>>> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
>>> 'picture' format?
>>>
>>> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
>>> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
>>> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
>>> transformation myself?
>> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>>
>>>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
>> ...     parts = pic.split(placeholder)
>> ...     result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
>> ...     result[::2] = parts
>> ...     result[1::2] = s
>> ...     return "".join(result)
>> ...
>>>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>>
>> Peter
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> Inspired by your answer here's another version:
> 
>>>> def picture(s, pic):
> ...   if len(s)==0: return pic
> ...   if pic[0]=='#': return s[0]+picture(s[1:], pic[1:])
> ...   return pic[0]+picture(s, pic[1:])
> ...
>>>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'

I learned a bit by Peter Otten's example; I would have gotten to that notation 
sooner or later, but that example made it 'sooner' :-).

I think your version is cute.

I'd probably write it in a non-recursive way, though, like

     def picture( s, pic, placeholder = "@" ):
         result = ""
         char_iter = iter( s )
         for c in pic:
             result += c if c != placeholder else next( char_iter )
         return result

Of course this is mostly personal preference, but there is also a functional 
difference.

With your version an IndexError will be raised if there are too /many/ 
characters in s, while too few characters in s will yield "#" in the result.

With my version a StopIteration will be raised if there are to /few/ characters 
in s, while too many characters will just have the extraneous chars ignored.


Cheers,

- Alf


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 10 06:55:44 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:55:44 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b729eb2$0$18397$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Klaus Neuner a ?crit :
> 
> All right, I admit that eval() is evil and should never be used.

Can you tell the difference between your above statement and the following:

"""
eval() is potentially dangerous and can make code harder to debug. 99% 
of the proposed use case for eval() are covered by simpler, less 
dangerous and easier to understand solutions, so the GoodPractice(tm) is 
to favor these solutions and only use eval() - with appropriate care - 
for the remaining 1% _real_ use case.
"""

If you can't tell the difference, then you're about as (im)mature as my 
13 year old son and it might eventually be time to grow up.

> The same applies to knives. You shouldn't use them. You
> shouldn't even use them in your own kitchen. A man might enter your
> kitchen, take your knife away and use it against you.

Knives - specially the kind I use in my kitchen - are indeed potentially 
dangerous, and I indeed had to educate my son so he wouldn't do anything 
stupid with them - like pointing a knife at someone, running across the 
house with a knife in his hand, or using them instead of a more 
appropriate tool.

The probability that someone will enter your kitchen and use one of your 
knives against you, while not null, are low enough to be ignored IMHO. I 
whish I could say the same about script kiddies or more educated (and 
dangerous) bad guys trying to attack our servers.

But you obviously never had to neither fix a compromised server nor 
raise a kid - else you'd now better. Hopefully you didn't raise my kid - 
now I just pray none of your code will ever run on our servers.


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Feb 10 06:59:40 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:59:40 +0000
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>	<CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hku73d$mjm$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/10/10 10:53, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Quin wrote:
>> Well, now you know!
>>
<cut>
>
> All I know is that you are using a python implementation that does not
> support python 3. No wonder why your py3 code fails.
>
<cut>
You knew you known, you know :-)

-- 
mph


From snarks at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 07:24:36 2010
From: snarks at gmail.com (Phil Hibbs)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:24:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Generic spreadsheet interface
Message-ID: <3acdf3a7-e2eb-4a9a-bc89-7e285073a9c9@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

I've currently got an Excel spreadsheet with loads of VBA, and I've
been thinking of porting it to OpenOffice.org. "This is a Python
list!" I hear you cry, but bear with me - rather than just re-writing
all the VBA code in OOo script, I thought, "why not make it generic -
so it can work with Excel or OOo?" - then I thought of Python. Python
can interface with both, but the specifics of how to interface with
each are very different. What would be nice is a generic wrapper class
that can work with either. Has anyone come across anything like that?

Phil Hibbs.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 07:28:02 2010
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:28:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b852169a-6c34-44ea-8300-1d467fd7c1aa@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 7:38?pm, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:57?am, Adam Tauno Williams <awill... at opengroupware.us>
> wrote:
>
> > > Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
> > > it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.
>
> > ? ?I edit Python in MonoDevelop ?2.2; ?and I can browse my file,
> > classes, etc... ?So I don't know what you mean by "can't see into the
> > code". ?It works pretty well.
>
> > Of course it can't tell that I've set x = {an integer}, as that only
> > happens at runtime.
>
> > > That's why I wrote this:
> > >http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_ed...
>
> You just said that your code browsing "works pretty well, except when
> it doesn't".
>
> Hence my blog entry. If your editor analyzed your code at runtime,
> instead of just static analysis, then it could see that x = an
> integer, or an object, no matter how dynamic your language.
>

The Wingware Wing IDE has an integrated debugger. The IDE does type
inferencing through static analysis to provide autocomplete and code
navigation features. If you run the code under the debugger it will
also use 'actual' type information to augment the static analysis.

Michael Foord

--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


From mailings at julianmoritz.de  Wed Feb 10 07:40:39 2010
From: mailings at julianmoritz.de (Julian)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:40:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2170.1265648842.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<pan.2010.02.09.01.31.36@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <aedc832d-fab0-44c0-a110-f46af68d6f3f@w16g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

hello there,

thanks everyone for that many answers! I'm lying in bed with a bad
cold, so I'll get through all the posts on the weekend.

regards
Julian


From olof.bjarnason at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 07:46:31 2010
From: olof.bjarnason at gmail.com (Olof Bjarnason)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:46:31 +0100
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/10 Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no>:
> * Olof Bjarnason:
>>
>> 2010/2/10 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>:
>>>
>>> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
>>>> 'picture' format?
>>>>
>>>> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
>>>> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
>>>> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
>>>> transformation myself?
>>>
>>> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>>>
>>>>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
>>>
>>> ... ? ? parts = pic.split(placeholder)
>>> ... ? ? result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
>>> ... ? ? result[::2] = parts
>>> ... ? ? result[1::2] = s
>>> ... ? ? return "".join(result)
>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>>>
>>> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>> Inspired by your answer here's another version:
>>
>>>>> def picture(s, pic):
>>
>> ... ? if len(s)==0: return pic
>> ... ? if pic[0]=='#': return s[0]+picture(s[1:], pic[1:])
>> ... ? return pic[0]+picture(s, pic[1:])
>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
>>
>> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>
> I learned a bit by Peter Otten's example; I would have gotten to that
> notation sooner or later, but that example made it 'sooner' :-).
>
> I think your version is cute.

Thanks!

Here's another version (maybe a little more readable?):

def first(s): return s[0]

def rest(s): return s[1:]

def picture(s, pic):
  if not s: return pic
  if first(pic)=='#': return first(s)+picture(rest(s), rest(pic))
  return first(pic)+picture(s, rest(pic))


>
> I'd probably write it in a non-recursive way, though, like
>
> ? ?def picture( s, pic, placeholder = "@" ):
> ? ? ? ?result = ""
> ? ? ? ?char_iter = iter( s )
> ? ? ? ?for c in pic:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?result += c if c != placeholder else next( char_iter )
> ? ? ? ?return result
>
> Of course this is mostly personal preference, but there is also a functional
> difference.
>
> With your version an IndexError will be raised if there are too /many/
> characters in s, while too few characters in s will yield "#" in the result.
>
> With my version a StopIteration will be raised if there are to /few/
> characters in s, while too many characters will just have the extraneous
> chars ignored.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
http://olofb.wordpress.com


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:24:33 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:24:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<4b729eb2$0$18397$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b562f060-51fb-4968-9f70-8ae19af9ca6a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 12:55?pm, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> KlausNeunera ?crit :
>
>
>
> > All right, I admit that eval() is evil and should never be used.
>
> Can you tell the difference between your above statement and the following:

As already pointed out in my second post (though perhaps not
explicitly enough), I like the getattr-stuff better than eval(). That
is why I will not use eval(). I don't have a reason to use eval(). All
I wanted to say is this: If there are no circumstances at all under
which eval() can reasonably be used, then it should not be part of
Python. As it is part of Python (and as Python is a carefully designed
language), there will most probably some situations in which one might
want to use it.




From almar.klein at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:29:42 2010
From: almar.klein at gmail.com (Almar Klein)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:29:42 +0100
Subject: ANN: visvis v1.1
Message-ID: <cc38d75f1002100529i28f7318an6d614641df01fc5b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am pleased to announce version 1.1 of visvis, a Python
visualization library for of 1D to 4D data.

Website: http://code.google.com/p/visvis/
Discussion group: http://groups.google.com/group/visvis/
Documentation: http://code.google.com/p/visvis/wiki/Visvis_basics

=== Description ===

Visvis is a pure Python visualization library that uses OpenGl to
display 1D to 4D data; it can be used from simple plotting tasks to
rendering 3D volumetric data that moves in time.

Visvis can be used in Python scripts, interactive Python sessions (as
with IPython) and can be embedded in applications.

Visvis employs an object oriented structure; each object being
visualized (e.g. a line or a texture) has various properties that can
be modified to change its behavior or appearance. A Matlab-like
interface in the form of a set of functions allows easy creation of
these objects (e.g. plot(), imshow(), volshow()).

=== Changes ===
A complete list can be found at
http://code.google.com/p/visvis/wiki/releaseNotes.

- Colormaps are now supported for texture objects. A colorbar and
colormapEditor wibject are also available.
- The performance of rendering 3D volumes has significantly improved. A new
shader (raycast) is also available).
- Fonts are rendered more smoothly and faster.
- Data for textures is automatically padded to a factor two if necessary,
and down-sampled if too large to fit in OpenGl memory.
- Visvis now works for any OpenGl version from OpenGl 1.1 (some features
might not be supported for lower versions though).

Regards,
  Almar
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From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb 10 08:37:22 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2282.1265790273.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 2:24?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:45:38 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
> <inva... at invalid.invalid> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Doesn't work. ?datetime.datetime.now has granularity of
> > 15-16ms.
>
> > Intervals much less that that often come back with a delta of
> > 0. ?A delay of 20ms produces a delta of either 15-16ms or
> > 31-32ms
>
> ? ? ? ? WinXP uses an ~15ms time quantum for task switching. Which defines
> the step rate of the wall clock output...
>
> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/35546579/the-quantum-was-n...http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/32823760/how-do-you-set-ti...
>
> http://www.lochan.org/2005/keith-cl/useful/win32time.html
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Gabriel Genellina reports that time.clock() uses Windows'
QueryPerformanceCounter() API, which has much higher resolution than
the task switcher's 15ms.  QueryPerformanceCounter's resolution is
hardware-dependent; using the Win API, and a little test program, I
get this value on my machine:
Frequency is 3579545 ticks/sec
Resolution is 0.279365114840015 microsecond/tick

-- Paul


From roy at panix.com  Wed Feb 10 08:38:18 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:38:18 -0500
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-AE820D.08381810022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list at python.org>,
 Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:

> Larry Hudson wrote:
> > But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
> > 
> > if 'mystring' not in s:
> >      print 'not found'
> > else:
> >      print 'foundit'
> >      print 'processing'
> 
> I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as 
> Larry does, or as
> 
>    if 'mystring' in s
>      print 'foundit'
>      print 'processing'
>    else:
>      print 'not found'
> 
> removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over 
> the other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really 
> nail down.  I think one of my major influencing factors revolves 
> around the negative "not" portion having one or two lines and the 
>   positive portion having a large block of code.  If the 
> code-blocks are more equal in size, I tend to use "if 
> {positive}", but if the negative "not" section is only 1-2 lines, 
> I tend to do as Larry writes and make it harder to miss by using 
> "if {negative}".  Otherwise the "if {positive}...else" can end up 
> sufficiently distant from the "if" that it's easy to miss.
> 
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?
> 
> -tkc

In general, I try to avoid negation, because it makes things harder to 
understand.  When you write:

if not foo:
   blah
else:
   blah-blah

the else clause is executed if "not foo is not true".  That quickly gets 
confusing.

As for the code blocks being so large that the else becomes distant from 
the condition, that smells like the two codeblocks want to be refactored 
into distinct functions:

if foo:
   do_one_thing()
else:
   do_something_else()

It's not always practical, but my first reaction would be to try that and 
see if it works.


From catonano at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:45:49 2010
From: catonano at gmail.com (catonano)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:45:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Vladimir,

On Feb 3, 12:10?pm, Vladimir Ignatov <kmis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I


> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

I don't know CAD systems, but I want to share my comments about this.

I self learned to program with Squeak Smalltalk at 17. Later, I worked
with VisualAge for Java, that was a Smalltalk IDE applied to Java.

Now, I can tell you that in Smalltalk IDEs the code is not written in
files. It's stored in a thing called "image".

You have these frames, in the first frame you have the classes, in the
second frame you have the child classes and in the third frame you
have the methods of the child class you selected.

A bigger frame showed the code of the single method you had selected.

You modified the method, hit ctrl-s and it was COMPILED and saved in
the image.

You had a frame in which you could interactively call your objects,
some of them represented things that were "showable" on the monitor
and you could see these things pop up as you instantiated them.

Then, you had some specialized browsers in which you could search, for
example, all the places a method was called in (a thing I have
difficulties with, in python, today)

VisualAge had its own management version system such that EVERY TIME I
saved a method, it became a VERSION and there was a specialized
browser for browsing the versions (the image tended to grow, that's
it) while the regular browser defaulted on the last version and there
was a tool for freezing a version as a milestone.


Today, I tried to understand the twisted.web.client code and I found 3
methods I couldn't find by who were called.

I asked on the mailing list and they suggested me where they were
called and that the tool for such thing is "grep".

So, you grep, you get a list of files, you open each one of them and
keep scrolling and switching from one file to another... endlessly.
Maybe I'm getting old, but I tend to get lost in the process.

I can't believe the code editing situation today is in a such sorry
state.

Is this what you meant ?

If it's this, then it's not experimental at all, it's been done
already and been put apart.

Crap won :-(

You write:

> Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric

well, it seems you agree with Alan Kay, (the Smalltalk inventor) when
he wrote that programming is NOT glorified text editing.

He called it "direct manipulation" every method was a live thing you
could send messages to and the source code that implemented it was
just an attribute of the method.

So you could have had a World Of Warcraft like interface, to
manipulate your methods.

You know what I'm doing now ? I'm drawing the map of
twisted.web.client on a paper with a pencil :-(

Bye
Catonano


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 10 08:51:19 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:51:19 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <b562f060-51fb-4968-9f70-8ae19af9ca6a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<4b729eb2$0$18397$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<b562f060-51fb-4968-9f70-8ae19af9ca6a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b72b9c8$0$8274$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Klaus Neuner a ?crit :
> On Feb 10, 12:55 pm, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
> 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> KlausNeunera ?crit :
>>
>>
>>
>>> All right, I admit that eval() is evil and should never be used.
>> Can you tell the difference between your above statement and the following:
> 
> As already pointed out in my second post (though perhaps not
> explicitly enough),

Or perhaps is it me that failed to re-read a bit more of the thread 
before answering - I obviously missed the irony (and made an a... of 
myself), sorry :-/

> All
> I wanted to say is this: If there are no circumstances at all under
> which eval() can reasonably be used, then it should not be part of
> Python. As it is part of Python (and as Python is a carefully designed
> language), there will most probably some situations in which one might
> want to use it.

Indeed.




From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 08:56:03 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 13:56:03 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:

>> In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
>> (and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
>> objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
>> address. Try comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers
>> and you'll cause a lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the
>> id() value is in some way related to an address.
> 
> Did you /read/ what you quoted?
> 
> 
>> Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's
>> nothing in the Python specification which prevents a Python
>> implementation doing the same for small integers, in fact I believe
>> it has been tried but wasn't found to improve performance.
> 
> All theree of your points about Python are wrong; I don't know about
> the Ruby point. 

Would you care to expand upon your claim that my three points about Python 
are wrong? Are you saying that CPyhton objects move around, or that 
IronPython objects are fixed to a single memory location or that their id 
is related to their address? Clue here:

IronPython 2.6 (2.6.10920.0) on .NET 2.0.50727.3082
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x = 42
>>> id(x)
43
>>> y = 43
>>> id(y)
44
>>> z = "whatever"
>>> id(z)
45

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From quindennis at grandecom.net  Wed Feb 10 08:59:19 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:59:19 -0600
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org><CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <INednX2_V6wnJu_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

You know, Jack, that was the point of my original post: to determine why 
things weren't working.  Do you still want to bet money that it is?  I can 
screenshot you TD.


"Jean-Michel Pichavant" <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Quin wrote:
>> Well, now you know!
>>
>> "Jean-Michel Pichavant" <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote in message 
>> news:mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list at python.org...
>>> Quin wrote:
>>>> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm 
>>>> switching to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I'm willing to bet money that it is not. If ironPython had a broken if 
>>> statement, don't you think we would have known, already ?
>>>
>>> There's a rule when test writing/testing code:
>>> "if you think the compiler is wrong, then you are wrong twice."
>>>
>>> JM
>>
>
> All I know is that you are using a python implementation that does not 
> support python 3. No wonder why your py3 code fails.
>
> Please do not top post.
>
> JM
>
>
>    IronPython
>
>    * Stable Version is 2.0.3 (targeting Python 2.5)
>    * Developers Version is 2.6 Beta 3 (targeting Python 2.6)
> 



From malkarouri at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:59:41 2010
From: malkarouri at gmail.com (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Function attributes
Message-ID: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
inside it, other than using its explicit name?
In a function like f below:

def f(*args):
    f.args = args
    print args

is there any other way?
I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a
valid one at the moment, sorry.

Regards,

Muhammad Alkarouri


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 09:16:46 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 14:16:46 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:13:22 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> You've
>> dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
>> "That's invalid, cuz."
> 
> That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.

Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I 
understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native 
English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are sometimes 
ambiguous in English.

While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a 
direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a 
paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us now.)

Unfortunately, this means that in informal discussions like this it is 
sometimes difficult to distinguish a direct quote from a paraphrase, 
except by context. In context, as a native speaker, I can assure you that 
Stephen Hansen's use of quotation marks is a paraphrase and not meant to 
be read as a direct quote.

As a paraphrase, it's not a *lie* -- it should be read as Stephen's 
*opinion* of your actions, not a direct quote. Stephen might, or might 
not, be *mistaken*, but it's unlikely he's actively lying. Arguing 
pedantically that you didn't write those exact words won't win you any 
friends or supporters.

You can choose to defend yourself against a gross misrepresentation of 
what you actually said; or you can accept that it captures the spirit 
(but not the letter) of your words; or you can choose a middle position, 
and accept that even if it is not a 100% accurate representation of your 
statements, perhaps it is 90% accurate, or 10%, or 50%. The exact amount 
doesn't really matter, and will be subjective, and frankly I don't care. 
But whatever degree you choose to accept, it is obvious that a number of 
people are not just being annoyed by your behaviour, but they are annoyed 
enough to publicly chastise you for it. That includes Steve Holden, who 
is usually far more even-tempered than (e.g.) me.

Without necessarily suggesting that you are 100% to blame for the 
antagonism, its unlikely that so many disparate individuals are all 100% 
mistaken. As you say, the public record is there for anyone who wishes to 
read the history.

Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to argue 
with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.



-- 
Steven


From waku at idi.ntnu.no  Wed Feb 10 09:33:50 2010
From: waku at idi.ntnu.no (waku)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:33:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<b35471ed-00a9-4334-811f-8933919c9050@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <636ee042-7411-4867-970c-96250c06498d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 10:41?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 9, 1:51?am, waku <w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
> > 'stupid', 'wrong', 'deficient', 'terrible', ... ?you're using strong
> > words instead of concrete arguments, it might intimidate your
> > opponents, but is hardly helpful in a fair discussion.
>
> In today's day and age, I don't know how a text editor which cannot do
> simple indentation can be considered anything but "stupid", "wrong",
> "deficient", and "terrible". There is simply no excuse for this kind
> of behavior on the part of the text editor.

i thought we were not discussing text editors, why should you insist
so much on diverting attention from the issue of a programmer being
*forced* to keep perfect indentation to the issue of an editor doing
autoindent or the like.

>
> I mean, how long has vi had the auto indent feature? How many decades
> has emacs supported the same? This isn't new technology, or difficult
> technology to implement. It's not even non-standard anymore. Heck, far
> more advanced features, such as syntax highlighting, are standard in
> all text editors.

wow!  and then, back to the issue of enforced indentation in python?


> Your problem is you're using something like Windows Notepad to edit
> your code.

thin ice!  you haven't got the faintest idea of what i use to edit my
code, do you.


Windows Notepad is a terrible tool for writing anything,
> let alone writing code. Why in the world would any programming
> language adapt itself to the mental deficiencies of Windows Notepad? I
> mean, if you were an artist, would you use MS Paint to do anything
> serious? If you did, would you complain that the art world has a
> problem because they don't accept your paintings?
>
> I strongly suggest you download one of the *hundreds* of free text
> editors available for the Windows platform that give you the
> indentation features you so sorely lack. I suggest ViM, though it has
> a steep learning curve.

listen to what people say before responding, and stop showing off.
again, you haven't used a single reasonable argument here.

vQ



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 10 09:35:57 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:35:57 +0100
Subject: New to Python
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<INednX2_V6wnJu_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <hkug84$86b$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Quin wrote:

> You know, Jack, that was the point of my original post: to determine why
> things weren't working.  Do you still want to bet money that it is?  I can
> screenshot you TD.

You haven't posted the complete script, and you haven't given a thorough 
description how you invoke that script.

To help us find an explanation for your problem and a possible fix please 
make the script as small as you can while preserving its very strange 
behaviour, open a DOS window and invoke the Ironpython interpreter manually 
on the command line. 

Finally copy and paste the output and the complete script and post it here 
again.

Peter


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 09:36:32 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 14:36:32 GMT
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a function like f
> below:
> 
> def f(*args):
>     f.args = args
>     print args
> 
> is there any other way?

Not built-in.


> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a valid
> one at the moment, sorry.

I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only able to 
refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break. 
Consider:

old_f = f  # save the old version of the function

def f(x):
    return old_f(x+1)  # make a new function and call it f

This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself 
under the name "f", and things break very quickly.





-- 
Steven


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 09:46:00 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:46:00 +0100
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002100646k557abc9dm73212357d2d3dad3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Muhammad Alkarouri
<malkarouri at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> inside it, other than using its explicit name?
> In a function like f below:
>
> def f(*args):
> ? ?f.args = args
> ? ?print args
>
> is there any other way?
> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a
> valid one at the moment, sorry.
>
> Regards,
>
> Muhammad Alkarouri
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

This sounds like something you shouldn't be doing. You should probably
use a class instead.

(Sending again to get it on the list >_<)


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 09:49:37 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:49:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<4b729eb2$0$18397$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<b562f060-51fb-4968-9f70-8ae19af9ca6a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b72b9c8$0$8274$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <e3a6aa81-514e-465b-97db-7e7fee51a96e@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

> Or perhaps is it me that failed to re-read a bit more of the thread
> before answering - I obviously missed the irony (and made an a... of
> myself), sorry :-/

There is nothing to be sorry about. I am grateful to all participants
of this thread. I know a lot more about Python than before.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 09:51:11 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:51:11 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <636ee042-7411-4867-970c-96250c06498d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<b35471ed-00a9-4334-811f-8933919c9050@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<636ee042-7411-4867-970c-96250c06498d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkuh8u$7c0$1@ger.gmane.org>

waku wrote:
> On Feb 9, 10:41 pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> wrote:
>> On Feb 9, 1:51 am, waku <w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>>
>>> 'stupid', 'wrong', 'deficient', 'terrible', ...  you're using strong
>>> words instead of concrete arguments, it might intimidate your
>>> opponents, but is hardly helpful in a fair discussion.
>> In today's day and age, I don't know how a text editor which cannot do
>> simple indentation can be considered anything but "stupid", "wrong",
>> "deficient", and "terrible". There is simply no excuse for this kind
>> of behavior on the part of the text editor.
> 
> i thought we were not discussing text editors, why should you insist
> so much on diverting attention from the issue of a programmer being
> *forced* to keep perfect indentation to the issue of an editor doing
> autoindent or the like.
> 
It's as sensible to complain about people being "*forced* to keep
perfect indentation" as it is to complain about people being *forced* to
use braces to delimit code blocks.

This is called "syntax", and it's a part of the language, so get over it
- this aspect of Python has been present in the language since its
inception, and it isn't going to change.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 09:54:37 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:54:37 +0100
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <INednX2_V6wnJu_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org><CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<INednX2_V6wnJu_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <4B72C8AD.2060203@sequans.com>

Quin wrote:
> You know, Jack, that was the point of my original post: to determine 
> why things weren't working.  Do you still want to bet money that it 
> is?  I can screenshot you TD.
>
Another flaming war starting...

IronPython implements python 2.5 and you're still complaining about your 
py3 code not working.
Try your code in a ruby shell, and tell the ruby community that their 
intepreter cannot even handle an if statement. Feel free to put my mail 
address in cc.

So to be clear, IronPython can properly handle if statements. I'll bet 
all your money on that.

Jack


From visiblelight at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 09:59:54 2010
From: visiblelight at gmail.com (Vision)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:59:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: looking for some libraries
Message-ID: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
I am doing some stuffs with some software, which has similar layout
like this:
Editbox________1
Editbox________2
Editbox________3
       _OK_
_______________
|        output        |
|        output        |
|        output        |
|        output        |
|        output        |
--------------------------
What I need to do is to fill the edit boxes, then press the OK button,
then I will get some output text below.
This is tedious since I have lots of entries to deal with.
So I am trying to write some scripts to handle this. And I wonder if
there is any library available for me to simplify the process?
Thanks!


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 10 10:08:47 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:08:47 -0500
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>

On 2/10/2010 9:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
>> inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a function like f
>> below:
>>
>> def f(*args):
>>      f.args = args
>>      print args
>>
>> is there any other way?
>
> Not built-in.
>
>
>> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
>> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a valid
>> one at the moment, sorry.
>
> I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only able to
> refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break.
> Consider:
>
> old_f = f  # save the old version of the function
>
> def f(x):
>      return old_f(x+1)  # make a new function and call it f
>
> This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself
> under the name "f", and things break very quickly.

They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:

#-------------------
def f(): return "old func"
g = f
print "name attr of f:", f.__name__
print "name attr of g:", g.__name__

def f(): return "new func"
print "name attr of f:", f.__name__
print "name attr of g:", g.__name__

print "*** calling function currently named f:"
print f()
print "*** calling function currently named g:"
print g()
#-------------------

program output (Python 2.6.4):

name attr of f: f
name attr of g: f
name attr of f: f
name attr of g: f
*** calling function currently named f:
new func
*** calling function currently named g:
old func

-John


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 10 10:24:56 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:24:56 +0100
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4b72cfb9$0$30354$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

John Posner a ?crit :
> On 2/10/2010 9:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>>
(snip)

>>> def f(*args):
>>>      f.args = args
>>>      print args
>>>
(snip)
>> I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only able to
>> refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break.
>> Consider:
>>
>> old_f = f  # save the old version of the function
>>
>> def f(x):
>>      return old_f(x+1)  # make a new function and call it f
>>
>> This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself
>> under the name "f", and things break very quickly.
> 
> They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:

The fact that in the OP's snippet, code inside f's body refers to f by 
its name.



From skylarking11 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:29:40 2010
From: skylarking11 at gmail.com (Sky Larking)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python v. Processing
Message-ID: <b2ec43d5-c373-4aa8-9972-f3caa07270e3@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

I am a light user of Python in a role as a systems administrator...I
am new to the list, but have grown to really enjoy using Python to
help in my job...Another interest I have ( but haven't fully
explored )  is the idea of using programming as a creative outlet .. I
have heard Processing: http://processing.org/ is a good language for
these sort of endeavors --- I am interested in Processing, but would
rather do similar creative work in  Python (i know that is vague, but
the projects on Processing.org are good examples of what I am
intending to do ). I've tried learning different languages
concurrently, and it is usually too much for me too handle.... Are
there creative types using Python in the way Processing is being
implemented? Just curious of their similarities and differences, and
what Python's limitations maybe be in this arena ( if any ) .

Thanks!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 10:33:34 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 15:33:34 GMT
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <0382bdeb$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:08:47 -0500, John Posner wrote:

>> This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself
>> under the name "f", and things break very quickly.
> 
> They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:

The original function f doesn't try to refer to itself in any way. With 
no recursive call or access, it doesn't matter what f is named.

See this example  instead:


>>> def f(x):
...     if x < 0:
...             print "original"
...             return f(-x)
...     else:
...             return x+1
...
>>> f(2)
3
>>> f(-2)
original
3
>>>
>>> old_f = f
>>> def f(x):
...     if x > 0:
...             return old_f(-x)
...     else:
...             return x
...
>>> f(-1)
-1
>>> f(1)
original
original
original
original
original
original
[...]
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 4, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded





-- 
Steven


From yakovenko87 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:34:13 2010
From: yakovenko87 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JrQuNGA0LjQu9C7?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: not correct socket closing
Message-ID: <13f582d6-dc41-48a3-9900-5ed95a42dcf0@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
I have got a small script for upload file on http server, and I need
interrupt uploading if I get tired wait.
I create socket:

self.conn = httplib.HTTPConnection("192.168.0.195")
#self.conn.debuglevel = 1
self.conn.request("POST", "/upload/", body, head)
if self.conn.sock:
    self.conn.sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_LINGER,
struct.pack("ii",  1, 0))


and close it in other thread:

if self.conn.sock:
    self.conn.close()

Python notify me what socket have closed, but he continues to send
data.
As can I close it and stop sending of the data?

Best Regards,
Kirill.


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:42:37 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:42:37 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100742x2f8fbeefi5f33fbdd475fdc77@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a
> direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a
> paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us now.)
>

Hm. I hadn't considered that others may interpret my words in the context of
other cultural punctuation rules; it seemed obvious to me that the phrases
Alf declared a "lie" were an opinion, and indeed as Steven points out, my
interpretation and paraphrasing of the original arguments.

Apologies if you considered it a direct quote and thought I was attempting
to assert you actually said what was in quote marks.

The comments were simply my interpretation (accurate or inaccurate as that
may be, it is my interpretation) of your remarks, and not a quotation of
your remarks to be attributed to you.

--S
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 10:51:31 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:51:31 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkukq4$le7$1@ger.gmane.org>

catonano wrote:
[... much wishing for the "good old day" of SmallTalk ...]
> Today, I tried to understand the twisted.web.client code and I found 3
> methods I couldn't find by who were called.
> 
> I asked on the mailing list and they suggested me where they were
> called and that the tool for such thing is "grep".
> 
> So, you grep, you get a list of files, you open each one of them and
> keep scrolling and switching from one file to another... endlessly.
> Maybe I'm getting old, but I tend to get lost in the process.
> 
Maybe you are getting old. Or maybe you didn't realise that the advice
was given you so that it would be useful whether or not you were using
an IDE.

> I can't believe the code editing situation today is in a such sorry
> state.
> 
It isn't. There are many IDEs that will allow you to easily locate the
calls of specific methods.

> Is this what you meant ?
> 
> If it's this, then it's not experimental at all, it's been done
> already and been put apart.
> 
> Crap won :-(
> 
It seems you yearn for the days of the SmallTalk image. Unfortunately
this didn't allow for conveniences like using external data stored in
files whose contents persisted and which could be transferred between
different machines.

I would never call SmallTalk "crap": it was a ground-breaking system
almost 40 yers ago. But the environment suffered from many limitations
of which you appear to be entirely unaware.

> You write:
> 
>> Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
>> should be a database-centric
> 
> well, it seems you agree with Alan Kay, (the Smalltalk inventor) when
> he wrote that programming is NOT glorified text editing.
> 
> He called it "direct manipulation" every method was a live thing you
> could send messages to and the source code that implemented it was
> just an attribute of the method.
> 
This aspect of SmallTalk was one of the things that made software
engineering rather difficult. Everything could be changed on the fly.

> So you could have had a World Of Warcraft like interface, to
> manipulate your methods.
> 
> You know what I'm doing now ? I'm drawing the map of
> twisted.web.client on a paper with a pencil :-(
> 
Well why don't you get yourself a sensible tool like Wing IDE or Komodo?
They at least will let you solve the problem you currently face without
having to poke around in the innards of a running virtual machine the
way we used to in SmallTalk.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From franke.rob at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:54:50 2010
From: franke.rob at googlemail.com (Robert Franke)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:54:50 +0100
Subject: Python v. Processing
In-Reply-To: <b2ec43d5-c373-4aa8-9972-f3caa07270e3@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ec43d5-c373-4aa8-9972-f3caa07270e3@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d34a96991002100754n3ade1cebu52ce8c65f7597777@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sky,


there is a project called pyprocessing
(http://code.google.com/p/pyprocessing/) that aims to create a similar
environment like processing in python. I am not sure though how
advanced this is.

Cheers,

Robert

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Sky Larking <skylarking11 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am a light user of Python in a role as a systems administrator...I
> am new to the list, but have grown to really enjoy using Python to
> help in my job...Another interest I have ( but haven't fully
> explored ) ?is the idea of using programming as a creative outlet .. I
> have heard Processing: http://processing.org/ is a good language for
> these sort of endeavors --- I am interested in Processing, but would
> rather do similar creative work in ?Python (i know that is vague, but
> the projects on Processing.org are good examples of what I am
> intending to do ). I've tried learning different languages
> concurrently, and it is usually too much for me too handle.... Are
> there creative types using Python in the way Processing is being
> implemented? Just curious of their similarities and differences, and
> what Python's limitations maybe be in this arena ( if any ) .
>
> Thanks!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:56:37 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:56:37 -0800
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
> > What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> > inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a function like f
>
> Not built-in.
>
> > I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> > feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a valid
> > one at the moment, sorry.
>
> I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only able to
> refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break.
>

I agree its slightly... in-elegant, or sub-optimal, but I'm not sure I want
to call it a *wart*. If one calls it a wart, there might be inspiration to
fix it.

And this sounds like a precursor to making "self" non-explicit, and I
*really* like my explicit self. :)

Then again, I have been slightly bruised by this sub-optimal situation
before.

I tried to do a function using a frame hack to get the information easily,
but failed. My long years of avoiding frame hacks like the plague have left
me deficient. :(

--S
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 11:02:54 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:02:54 +0000
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <c3dfe1d1002100250x56a7f081v5a02d7182d89b5c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3dfe1d1002100250x56a7f081v5a02d7182d89b5c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B72D8AE.3000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Olof Bjarnason wrote:
> 2010/2/10 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>:
>> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>>
>>> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
>>> 'picture' format?
>>>
>>> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
>>> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
>>> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
>>> transformation myself?
>> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>>
>>>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
>> ...     parts = pic.split(placeholder)
>> ...     result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
>> ...     result[::2] = parts
>> ...     result[1::2] = s
>> ...     return "".join(result)
>> ...
>>>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>>
>> Peter
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> Inspired by your answer here's another version:
> 
>>>> def picture(s, pic):
> ...   if len(s)==0: return pic
> ...   if pic[0]=='#': return s[0]+picture(s[1:], pic[1:])
> ...   return pic[0]+picture(s, pic[1:])
> ...
>>>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
> 
Here's a version without recursion:

 >>> def picture(s, pic):
...     pic = pic.replace("%", "%%").replace("#", "%s")
...     return pic % tuple(s)
...
 >>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
'(123)-45-(678)[9]'



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 11:06:25 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:06:25 -0800
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100806m66bc38f6mc2242c381be5c7ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:45 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>
> >>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
> ...     parts = pic.split(placeholder)
> ...     result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
> ...     result[::2] = parts
> ...     result[1::2] = s
> ...     return "".join(result)
> ...
> >>>
> >>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>

Huh. This is the best version of those posted, I think (especially including
mine! My jumping to regex is worthy of shame, sh ame).

It took a little bit to figure out what was really going on here, but its a
single-pass through to do it without recursion or building a bunch of
intermediate strings that are concatenated and dropped away.

Its clever, and I don't mean that in the bad way, because -all- the
solutions are pretty clever in the sneaky-tricky-neat way. But this is
clever-cool.

Just slightly dark-voodoo-incantation-esque. Slightly!

--S
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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 11:10:23 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:10:23 -0600
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <4B725AF0.9030803@gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<20100210015132.3808f0d5.darcy@druid.net>
	<4B725AF0.9030803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkulpe$plf$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-10 01:06 AM, Steven Howe wrote:
> Really, is this a relevant topic on a program mail list?

Yes. Meta-discussions about how we discuss programming productively are also 
on-topic.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 11:15:22 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:15:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkum2p$4i0$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:10:56 -0300, Grant Edwards  
><invalid at invalid.invalid> escribi?:
>
>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>
>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>> MS-bashing here]
>
> I'm not sure you can blame MS of this issue; anyway, this
> patch should fix the problem:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=896256

I'm curious why it wouldn't be Microsoft's fault, because

 A) Everything is Microsoft's fault. ;)

 B) If a patch to MS Windows fixes the problem, how is it not a
    problem in MS Windows?

>> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
>> that time.clock() works right?
>
> Interactively, from the Task Manager:
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/taskman_assign_process.mspx

Thanks.  That looks a bit easier than disabling the second core
(which is what I ended up doing).

> In code, using SetProcessAffinityMask and related functions:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms686223(VS.85).aspx

With help from google and some old mailing list posting I might
even try that.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! It's a lot of fun
                                  at               being alive ... I wonder if
                               visi.com            my bed is made?!?


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 12:15:07 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:15:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: looking for some libraries
References: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9cb81f4e-e7cd-4b5d-992e-2e31f786a1da@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 8:59?am, Vision <visibleli... at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi all,
> I am doing some stuffs with some software, which has similar layout
> like this:
> Editbox________1
> Editbox________2
> Editbox________3
> ? ? ? ?_OK_
> _______________
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> --------------------------
> What I need to do is to fill the edit boxes, then press the OK button,
> then I will get some output text below.
> This is tedious since I have lots of entries to deal with.
> So I am trying to write some scripts to handle this. And I wonder if
> there is any library available for me to simplify the process?
> Thanks!

Well a GUI kit comes to mind. And since you did not mention a
preference (or much really) i would suggest Tkinter in the stdlib as a
starting point. Here is a big hint!

#-- start code --#
import Tkinter as tk

def fooit():
    lister.insert(END, entry1.get())

app = tk.Tk()

label1 = tk.Label(app, text='label-1').grid(row=0, column=0)
entry1 = tk.Entry(app).grid(row=0, column=1)
tk.Button(app, text='OK', command=fooit).grid(row=1, column=0,
columnspan=2)
lister = tk.Listbox(app, width=20, height=10)
lister.grid(row=2, column=0, columnspan=2)

app.mainloop()
#-- end code --#

i would wrap the label and entry up into a class myself but milage may
vary.


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 12:20:34 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:20:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: looking for some libraries
References: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<9cb81f4e-e7cd-4b5d-992e-2e31f786a1da@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <72f1941d-92bd-4063-aa14-d5bb3e0b5107@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

@Vision

Its nice to start with examples that don't crash, so try this
instead ;D

import Tkinter as tk

def fooit():
    lister.insert('end', entry1.get())

app = tk.Tk()

label1 = tk.Label(app, text='label-1').grid(row=0, column=0)
entry1 = tk.Entry(app)
entry1.grid(row=0, column=1)
tk.Button(app, text='OK', command=fooit).grid(row=1, column=0,
columnspan=2)

-- there are no redo's in Usenet!!

lister = tk.Listbox(app, width=20, height=10)
lister.grid(row=2, column=0, columnspan=2)

app.mainloop()




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 12:23:36 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:23:36 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B72EB98.1000204@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano 
> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au 
> <mailto:steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au>> wrote:
> 
>     On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>      > What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
>      > inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a function like f
> 
>     Not built-in.
> 
>      > I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It
>     just
>      > feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise
>     a valid
>      > one at the moment, sorry.
> 
>     I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only
>     able to
>     refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break.
> 
> 
> I agree its slightly... in-elegant, or sub-optimal, but I'm not sure I 
> want to call it a *wart*. If one calls it a wart, there might be 
> inspiration to fix it.
> 
> And this sounds like a precursor to making "self" non-explicit, and I 
> *really* like my explicit self. :)
> 
> Then again, I have been slightly bruised by this sub-optimal situation 
> before.
> 
> I tried to do a function using a frame hack to get the information 
> easily, but failed. My long years of avoiding frame hacks like the 
> plague have left me deficient. :(
> 
Does this mean that Python needs, say, __function__ (and perhaps also
__module__)?


From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 10 12:23:38 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:23:38 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Original poster here.

Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
by studying everyone's solutions!!

I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this common(?) use
case which is why I shied away from writing my own in the first place
... hoping to not-reinvent the wheel, etc.

Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
string. I think it handles the edge cases pretty elegantly unless I'm
too close to the details to miss the obvious.

Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.

# format s using a picture string 
# stops processing when runs out of chars in s or pic string
# example: picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
def picture( s, pic, placeholder="@" ):
    s = list( s )
    output = []
    for sym in pic:
        if sym <> placeholder:
            output.append( sym )
        elif len( s ):
            output.append( s.pop( 0 ) )
        else:
            break
    return ''.join( output )

# test cases
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
	
Regards,
Malcolm


From cdberry at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 12:38:33 2010
From: cdberry at gmail.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:38:33 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>
	<8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8dee73061002100938l39f4b609k94088afefccecdd0@mail.gmail.com>

I'm happy to report that FreeGLUT solved my problem.  I obtained the
Windows prepackaged binary distribution, pulled out freeglut.dll,
renamed it to glut32.dll, and replaced the existing glut32.dll in the
PyOpenGL installation directory tree with the new version.  Mousewheel
events are now reported, and everything else seems to be working as
expected.  Thanks for your help!

-- 
Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
"Lots of things in the universe don?t solve any problems, and
nevertheless exist."  -- Sean Carroll


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 12:55:00 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:55:00 +0100
Subject: looking for some libraries
In-Reply-To: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B72F2F4.4020607@sequans.com>

Vision wrote:
> hi all,
> I am doing some stuffs with some software, which has similar layout
> like this:
> Editbox________1
> Editbox________2
> Editbox________3
>        _OK_
> _______________
> |        output        |
> |        output        |
> |        output        |
> |        output        |
> |        output        |
> --------------------------
> What I need to do is to fill the edit boxes, then press the OK button,
> then I will get some output text below.
> This is tedious since I have lots of entries to deal with.
> So I am trying to write some scripts to handle this. And I wonder if
> there is any library available for me to simplify the process?
> Thanks!
>   

Someone posted this link few weeks ago:
http://www.sikuli.org/

It supports only mac & windows though.

You can also have a look at
http://pywinauto.openqa.org/

JM



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Feb 10 13:04:14 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:04:14 -0600
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Original poster here.
> 
> Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
> by studying everyone's solutions!!

Thanks for the positive feedback -- it's something most folks 
like to hear when they try to assist and such thanks appears too 
rarely on the list.

> Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
> the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
> the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
> string. 
 >
> Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.
[snip]
> # test cases
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
> 	

You don't give the expected output for these test cases, so it's 
hard to tell whether you want to pad-left or pad-right.

Riffing on MRAB's lovely solution, you can do something like

   def picture(
       s, pic,
       placeholder='@',
       padding=' ',
       pad_left=True
       ):
     assert placeholder != '%'
     s = str(s)
     expected = pic.count(placeholder)
     if len(s) > expected:
       s = s[:expected]
     if len(s) < expected:
       if pad_left:
         s = s.rjust(expected, padding)
       else:
         s = s.ljust(expected, padding)
     return pic.replace(
       '%', '%%').replace(
       placeholder, '%s') % tuple(s)

print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]", 
pad_left=False)

That way you can specify your placeholder, your padding 
character, and whether you want it to pad to the left or right.

-tkc





From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 10 13:15:27 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:15:27 -0500
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <4b72cfb9$0$30354$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
	<4b72cfb9$0$30354$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b72f7a5$0$5017$607ed4bc@cv.net>

On 2/10/2010 10:24 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>
>> They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:
>
> The fact that in the OP's snippet, code inside f's body refers to f by
> its name.

Of course! Tx.  -John





From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 13:21:35 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:21:35 +0000
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2ocjxx87k.fsf@googlemail.com>

python at bdurham.com writes:

> Original poster here.
>
> Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
> by studying everyone's solutions!!
>
> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this common(?) use
> case which is why I shied away from writing my own in the first place
> ... hoping to not-reinvent the wheel, etc.
>
> Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
> the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
> the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
> string. I think it handles the edge cases pretty elegantly unless I'm
> too close to the details to miss the obvious.
>
> Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.
>
> # format s using a picture string 
> # stops processing when runs out of chars in s or pic string
> # example: picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> def picture( s, pic, placeholder="@" ):
>     s = list( s )
>     output = []
>     for sym in pic:
>         if sym <> placeholder:
>             output.append( sym )
>         elif len( s ):
>             output.append( s.pop( 0 ) )
>         else:
>             break
>     return ''.join( output )
>
> # test cases
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
> 	
> Regards,
> Malcolm

def picture(s, pic, placeholder='@'):
    nextchar=iter(s).next
    return ''.join(nextchar() if i == placeholder else i for i in pic)

passes all your test cases I think (I can't be sure because you didn't
post the expected output).  The trick is that when nextchar reaches the
end of the string 's', it raises a StopIteration which is caught by the
generator expression.

-- 
Arnaud


From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 10 13:30:21 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:30:21 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <1265826621.13859.1359315979@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi Tim,

Thank you very much for your update to MRAB's creative solution.

> You don't give the expected output for these test cases, so 
> it's hard to tell whether you want to pad-left or pad-right.

To be honest, I wasn't sure myself :)

My original post was the result of doing some simple formatting where my
input strings were 'guaranteed'<g> to be a consistent length. I hadn't
started to think about the specs for a more universal picture function
until I started to study and test the solutions proposed by others. It
bears repeating again - what a clever mix of techniques - I really
learned a lot more than I was expecting!

I appreciate you taking the extra time to analyze the problem and refine
it further.

Cheers,
Malcolm

Riffing on MRAB's lovely solution, you can do something like

   def picture(
       s, pic,
       placeholder='@',
       padding=' ',
       pad_left=True
       ):
     assert placeholder != '%'
     s = str(s)
     expected = pic.count(placeholder)
     if len(s) > expected:
       s = s[:expected]
     if len(s) < expected:
       if pad_left:
         s = s.rjust(expected, padding)
       else:
         s = s.ljust(expected, padding)
     return pic.replace(
       '%', '%%').replace(
       placeholder, '%s') % tuple(s)

print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]", 
pad_left=False)

That way you can specify your placeholder, your padding 
character, and whether you want it to pad to the left or right.


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Wed Feb 10 13:30:22 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:30:22 +0100
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<b35471ed-00a9-4334-811f-8933919c9050@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<636ee042-7411-4867-970c-96250c06498d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2297.1265813624.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20100210193022.5067e3e3@geekmail.INVALID>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:51:11 -0500 Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
wrote:

> [snip]
> It's as sensible to complain about people being "*forced* to keep
> perfect indentation" as it is to complain about people being *forced*
> to use braces to delimit code blocks.
> 
> This is called "syntax", and it's a part of the language, so get over
> it - this aspect of Python has been present in the language since its
> inception, and it isn't going to change.
> 
Amen. Now everybody do a quick

    from __future__ import braces

and get back to work.

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 13:31:23 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:31:23 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
	<0382bdeb$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <m2k4ulx7r8.fsf@googlemail.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:08:47 -0500, John Posner wrote:
>
>>> This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself
>>> under the name "f", and things break very quickly.
>> 
>> They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:
>
> The original function f doesn't try to refer to itself in any way. With 
> no recursive call or access, it doesn't matter what f is named.
>
> See this example  instead:
>
>
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     if x < 0:
> ...             print "original"
> ...             return f(-x)
> ...     else:
> ...             return x+1
> ...
>>>> f(2)
> 3
>>>> f(-2)
> original
> 3
>>>>
>>>> old_f = f
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     if x > 0:
> ...             return old_f(-x)
> ...     else:
> ...             return x
> ...
>>>> f(-1)
> -1
>>>> f(1)
> original
> original
> original
> original
> original
> original
> [...]
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
>   File "<stdin>", line 4, in f
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
> RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded

It's not ideal, but you can use a decorator like this to solve this
problem:

def bindfunction(f):
    def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
        return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
    bound_f.__name__ = f.__name__
    return bound_f

>>> @bindfunction
... def factorial(this_function, n):
...     if n > 0:
...         return n * this_function(n - 1)
...     else:
...         return 1
... 
>>> factorial(15)
1307674368000L
>>> fac = factorial
>>> fac(15)
1307674368000L
>>> factorial = 'foobar'
>>> fac(15)
1307674368000L

-- 
Arnaud


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Wed Feb 10 13:33:24 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:33:24 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002100938l39f4b609k94088afefccecdd0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>	<8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
	<8dee73061002100938l39f4b609k94088afefccecdd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B72FBF4.7060501@islandtraining.com>

Craig Berry wrote:
> I'm happy to report that FreeGLUT solved my problem.  I obtained the
> Windows prepackaged binary distribution, pulled out freeglut.dll,
> renamed it to glut32.dll, and replaced the existing glut32.dll in the
> PyOpenGL installation directory tree with the new version.  Mousewheel
> events are now reported, and everything else seems to be working as
> expected.  Thanks for your help!
>
>   

:-)

Gary Herron



From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 10 13:36:34 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:36:34 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <m2ocjxx87k.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com><1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com><mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2ocjxx87k.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <1265826994.14794.1359317783@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Arnaud,

Very cool!! Just when I thought the problem couldn't be made simpler ...
WOW!!!

Again, a big thank you to everyone who posted solutions!!!

I'm humbled at how clever and different everyone's techniques have been.

I have to say, I learned much more than I thought I needed to learn :)

Thanks again!

Malcolm

----- Original message -----
From: "Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com>
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:21:35 +0000
Subject: Re: Creating formatted output using picture strings

python at bdurham.com writes:

> Original poster here.
>
> Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
> by studying everyone's solutions!!
>
> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this common(?) use
> case which is why I shied away from writing my own in the first place
> ... hoping to not-reinvent the wheel, etc.
>
> Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
> the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
> the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
> string. I think it handles the edge cases pretty elegantly unless I'm
> too close to the details to miss the obvious.
>
> Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.
>
> # format s using a picture string 
> # stops processing when runs out of chars in s or pic string
> # example: picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> def picture( s, pic, placeholder="@" ):
>     s = list( s )
>     output = []
>     for sym in pic:
>         if sym <> placeholder:
>             output.append( sym )
>         elif len( s ):
>             output.append( s.pop( 0 ) )
>         else:
>             break
>     return ''.join( output )
>
> # test cases
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
> 	
> Regards,
> Malcolm

def picture(s, pic, placeholder='@'):
    nextchar=iter(s).next
    return ''.join(nextchar() if i == placeholder else i for i in pic)

passes all your test cases I think (I can't be sure because you didn't
post the expected output).  The trick is that when nextchar reaches the
end of the string 's', it raises a StopIteration which is caught by the
generator expression.

-- 
Arnaud


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Feb 10 13:38:58 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:38:58 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B72FD42.8010203@stoneleaf.us>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to argue 
> with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.

It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who 
are attempting to teach him.  At the rate it's going, though, I don't 
see myself buying any book he produces.

Besides the arrogant attitude, he is wrong on so many things about 
Python it is truly stunning.  He seems to have confidence born of 
ignorance... a scary sight to see.

In the spirit of being helpful and not just being a jerk myself:

Alf,

Using smileys after declaring somebody is mistaken/wrong/etc makes you 
look bad.

Not attempting to learn the language makes you look like an arrogant 
idiot (case in point: passing-by-object).

Accusing anyone and everyone that criticizes you of making ad hominem 
(sp?) attacks makes you look like a whiner.

After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python, I 
might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than winning 
presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding is not 
worth paying for.

Hoping-this-helps-but-not-really-expecting-it-to-ly yours,
~Ethan~


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 13:58:02 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 18:58:02 GMT
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2306.1265822617.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0382edd6$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:23:36 +0000, MRAB wrote:

> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au
>> <mailto:steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au>> wrote:
>> 
>>     On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>>      > What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function
>>      > from inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a
>>      > function like f
>> 
>>     Not built-in.

[...]

> Does this mean that Python needs, say, __function__ (and perhaps also
> __module__)?

Python already has __module__, except that it is spelled:

import __main__


As for __function__, perhaps, but a solution I would be satisfied with 
would be to make it optional. Most functions are not recursive, and do 
not attach attributes to themselves. For the few that do need to refer to 
themselves, it would be sufficient to call a decorator to get the 
behaviour needed. I thought I had come up with such a thing, once before, 
but I can't find it now :(


-- 
Steven


From donn.ingle at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 14:00:57 2010
From: donn.ingle at gmail.com (donn)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:00:57 +0200
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <1265826994.14794.1359317783@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com><1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com><mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2ocjxx87k.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<1265826994.14794.1359317783@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B730269.70809@gmail.com>

On 10/02/2010 20:36, python at bdurham.com wrote:
> def picture(s, pic, placeholder='@'):
>      nextchar=iter(s).next
>      return ''.join(nextchar() if i == placeholder else i for i in pic)
Hell's teeth - even I understood that! Amazing solution.

\d

-- 
Fonty Python and Things! -- http://otherwise.relics.co.za/wiki/Software


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 14:04:58 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 19:04:58 GMT
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
	<0382bdeb$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<m2k4ulx7r8.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <0382ef76$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:31:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> It's not ideal, but you can use a decorator like this to solve this
> problem:
> 
> def bindfunction(f):
>     def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
>         return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
>     bound_f.__name__ = f.__name__
>     return bound_f

Ah, very nice. Perhaps it's better to use functools.wraps?

import functools

def bindfunction(f):
    @functools.wraps(f)
    def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
        return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
    return bound_f



-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 10 14:09:46 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:09:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
Message-ID: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>



Some people have mathphobia.  I'm developing a wicked case of
Unicodephobia.

I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:

UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

(There, see?  My Unicodephobia just went up a notch.)

Here's the thing: I don't even know how to *begin* debugging errors
like this.  This is where I could use some help.

In the past I've gone for method of choice of the clueless:
"programming by trial-and-error", try random crap until something
"works."  And if that "strategy" fails, I come begging for help to
c.l.p.  And thanks for the very effective pointers for getting rid
of the errors.

But afterwards I remain as clueless as ever...  It's the old "give
a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish" story.

I need a systematic approach to troubleshooting and debugging these
Unicode errors.  I don't know what.  Some tools maybe.  Some useful
modules or builtin commands.  A diagnostic flowchart?  I don't
think that any more RTFM on Unicode is going to help (I've done it
in spades), but if there's a particularly good write-up on Unicode
debugging, please let me know.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

FWIW, I'm using Python 2.6.  The example above happens to come from
a script that extracts data from HTML files, which are all in
English, but they are a daily occurrence when I write code to
process non-English text.  The script uses Beautiful Soup.  I won't
post a lot of code because, as I said, what I'm after is not so
much a way around this specific error as much as the tools and
techniques to troubleshoot it and fix it on my own.  But to ground
the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
the execution of a statement of the form:

  x = '%s %s' % (y, z)

Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
all of the following statements work perfectly fine:

  x = '%s' % y
  x = '%s' % z
  print y
  print z
  print y, z

TIA!

~K


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 10 14:22:44 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:22:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 11:09?am, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
>
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
>

You'll have to understand some terminology first.

"codec" is a description of how to encode and decode unicode data to a
stream of bytes.

"decode" means you are taking a series of bytes and converting it to
unicode.

"encode" is the opposite---take a unicode string and convert it to a
stream of bytes.

"ascii" is a codec that can only describe 0-127 with bytes 0-127.
"utf-8", "utf-16", etc... are other codecs. There's a lot of them.
Only some of them (ie, utf-8, utf-16) can encode all unicode. Most
(ie, ascii) can only do a subset of unicode.

In this case, you've fed a stream of bytes with 128 as one of the
bytes to the decoder. Since the decoder thinks it's working with
ascii, it doesn't know what to do with 128. There's a number of ways
to fix this:

(1) Feed it unicode instead, so it doesn't try to decode it.

(2) Tell it what encoding you are using, because it's obviously not
ascii.

>
> FWIW, I'm using Python 2.6. ?The example above happens to come from
> a script that extracts data from HTML files, which are all in
> English, but they are a daily occurrence when I write code to
> process non-English text. ?The script uses Beautiful Soup. ?I won't
> post a lot of code because, as I said, what I'm after is not so
> much a way around this specific error as much as the tools and
> techniques to troubleshoot it and fix it on my own. ?But to ground
> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
> the execution of a statement of the form:
>
> ? x = '%s %s' % (y, z)
>
> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
>
> ? x = '%s' % y
> ? x = '%s' % z
> ? print y
> ? print z
> ? print y, z
>

What are y and z? Are they unicode or strings? What are their values?

It sounds like someone, probably beautiful soup, is trying to turn
your strings into unicode. A full stacktrace would be useful to see
who did what where.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 14:56:20 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 19:56:20 GMT
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1BCAD3B50E1duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

> But to ground
> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
> the execution of a statement of the form:
> 
>   x = '%s %s' % (y, z)
> 
> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
> 
>   x = '%s' % y
>   x = '%s' % z
>   print y
>   print z
>   print y, z
> 

One of y or z is unicode, the other is str. The statement that goes wrong 
is combining the unicode string with the other one so the result has to be 
unicode. That means whichever of y or z is str is being decoded to unicode 
is being decoded with the default of 'ascii'.

When you format them separately one assignment to x gives a unicode result, 
the other gives str.

When you print them you are encoding the unicode value to ascii and that 
isn't giving a problem.

1. Print the repr of each value so you can see which is which.
2. Explicitly decode the str to unicode using whatever encoding is correct 
(possibly utf-8) when formatting.
3. Explicitly encode back to str when printing using the encoding of your 
output device.
4. Know what types you are using: never mix str and unicode without being 
explicit.
5. When you post to this newsgroup include the full traceback, not just the 
error message.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 14:56:25 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:56:25 +0000
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B730F69.8090205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Tim Chase wrote:
> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>> Original poster here.
>>
>> Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
>> by studying everyone's solutions!!
> 
> Thanks for the positive feedback -- it's something most folks like to 
> hear when they try to assist and such thanks appears too rarely on the 
> list.
> 
>> Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
>> the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
>> the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
>> string. 
>  >
>> Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.
> [snip]
>> # test cases
>> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
>> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
>>     
> 
> You don't give the expected output for these test cases, so it's hard to 
> tell whether you want to pad-left or pad-right.
> 
> Riffing on MRAB's lovely solution, you can do something like
> 
>   def picture(
>       s, pic,
>       placeholder='@',
>       padding=' ',
>       pad_left=True
>       ):
>     assert placeholder != '%'
>     s = str(s)
>     expected = pic.count(placeholder)
>     if len(s) > expected:
>       s = s[:expected]
>     if len(s) < expected:
>       if pad_left:
>         s = s.rjust(expected, padding)
>       else:
>         s = s.ljust(expected, padding)
>     return pic.replace(
>       '%', '%%').replace(
>       placeholder, '%s') % tuple(s)
> 
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)", pad_left=False)
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]", pad_left=False)
> 
> That way you can specify your placeholder, your padding character, and 
> whether you want it to pad to the left or right.
> 
The code changes any existing '%' to '%%' because each placeholder will
be changed to '%s'. However, if the placeholder itself is '%' then the
initial 'fix' isn't necessary. Therefore:

def picture(s, pic, placeholder='@', padding=' ', pad_left=True):
     s = str(s)
     expected = pic.count(placeholder)
     if len(s) > expected:
         s = s[:expected]
     elif len(s) < expected:
         if pad_left:
             s = s.rjust(expected, padding)
         else:
             s = s.ljust(expected, padding)
     if placeholder != '%':
         pic = pic.replace('%', '%%')
     return pic.replace(placeholder, '%s') % tuple(s)


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 14:57:04 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:57:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:

[regardning "picture" output format specifiers]

> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
> common(?) use case

I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
commonly used in other places than COBOL?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Did I say I was
                                  at               a sardine?  Or a bus???
                               visi.com            


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 15:02:14 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Duncan Booth:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> 
>>> In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
>>> (and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
>>> objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
>>> address. Try comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers
>>> and you'll cause a lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the
>>> id() value is in some way related to an address.
>> Did you /read/ what you quoted?
>>
>>
>>> Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's
>>> nothing in the Python specification which prevents a Python
>>> implementation doing the same for small integers, in fact I believe
>>> it has been tried but wasn't found to improve performance.
>> All theree of your points about Python are wrong; I don't know about
>> the Ruby point. 
> 
> Would you care to expand upon your claim that my three points about Python 
> are wrong?

Sure. I already did in the article you're replying to, immediately following 
what you quote above. You snipped that which you're asking for, so I requote:


<quote>
First, the current Python language specification formally prevents the 
optimization you mention, because there's no support for binding to do anything 
but direct binding leaving object identities unchanged.

But in practice that's no big deal though: I can't imagine any code relying on 
identities of completely immutable objects.

Second, even the variant that was tried improved performance.

But it would reportedly have wreaked havoc with imperfect C code.

Third, the optimization doesn't do away with pointers. If it did then it would 
transform the language completely. The user's view is still one where names 
denote pointers.
</quote>


Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer" remains: 
"pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python level, in 
the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language spec.


> Are you saying that CPyhton objects move around, or that 
> IronPython objects are fixed to a single memory location or that their id 
> is related to their address?

No, I can't see how you can deduce any such connection from I wrote.

Whether objects "move around" depends on what exactly you mean by "move around", 
and given that, it may then depend on the Python implementation.

However, from the Python point of view every object has a fixed unique id, 
available via id().


> Clue here:
> 
> IronPython 2.6 (2.6.10920.0) on .NET 2.0.50727.3082
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> x = 42
>>>> id(x)
> 43
>>>> y = 43
>>>> id(y)
> 44
>>>> z = "whatever"
>>>> id(z)
> 45
> 

I'm guessing wildly that you're trying to illustrate id's that don't correspond 
to memory addresses?

If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language) pointer is 
not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id is not guaranteed 
to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which might not even make sense.

All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the object 
pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and although in CPython 
that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as integer, in IronPython it's not.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 15:05:55 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:05:55 +0000
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B7311A3.3010504@mrabarnett.plus.com>

kj wrote:
> 
> Some people have mathphobia.  I'm developing a wicked case of
> Unicodephobia.
> 
> I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
> that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:
> 
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> (There, see?  My Unicodephobia just went up a notch.)
> 
> Here's the thing: I don't even know how to *begin* debugging errors
> like this.  This is where I could use some help.
> 
> In the past I've gone for method of choice of the clueless:
> "programming by trial-and-error", try random crap until something
> "works."  And if that "strategy" fails, I come begging for help to
> c.l.p.  And thanks for the very effective pointers for getting rid
> of the errors.
> 
> But afterwards I remain as clueless as ever...  It's the old "give
> a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish" story.
> 
> I need a systematic approach to troubleshooting and debugging these
> Unicode errors.  I don't know what.  Some tools maybe.  Some useful
> modules or builtin commands.  A diagnostic flowchart?  I don't
> think that any more RTFM on Unicode is going to help (I've done it
> in spades), but if there's a particularly good write-up on Unicode
> debugging, please let me know.
> 
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> 
> FWIW, I'm using Python 2.6.  The example above happens to come from
> a script that extracts data from HTML files, which are all in
> English, but they are a daily occurrence when I write code to
> process non-English text.  The script uses Beautiful Soup.  I won't
> post a lot of code because, as I said, what I'm after is not so
> much a way around this specific error as much as the tools and
> techniques to troubleshoot it and fix it on my own.  But to ground
> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
> the execution of a statement of the form:
> 
>   x = '%s %s' % (y, z)
> 
> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
> 
>   x = '%s' % y
>   x = '%s' % z
>   print y
>   print z
>   print y, z
> 
Decode all text input; encode all text output; do all text processing
in Unicode, which also means making all text literals Unicode (prefixed
with 'u').

Note: I'm talking about when you're working with _text_, as distinct
from when you're working with _binary data_, ie bytes.


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:13:58 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:13:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SocketServer error: AttributeError:  instance has no __call__ method
Message-ID: <bc9adc7c-e24e-4229-aabd-3c6c10fdfa48@v36g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

Hey guys,
I'm having some issues connecting to my Socket Server,  I get this
traceback on the sever side:
----------------------------------------
Exception happened during processing of request from ('127.0.0.1',
56404)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 281, in
_handle_request_noblock
    self.process_request(request, client_address)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 307, in
process_request
    self.finish_request(request, client_address)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 320, in
finish_request
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
AttributeError: Negotiator instance has no __call__ method
----------------------------------------
here's the handler and my server:
#server side negotiator
from message import message
from sharedComs import *
from Crypto.Hash import SHA256
from Crypto.Cipher import AES
from Crypto import Random
from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
import xmlrpclib as xmlrpc
import os
import SocketServer

class Negotiator(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    CLIENT_KEY = 0
    CSCIPHER = 1
    SCCIPHER = 2
    CSHALVES = 3
    SCHALVES = 4
    FILENAME = 5

    def __init__(self, host, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
        self.host = host
        self.hostid = hostid
        self.serverKey = rsa_key
        self.buffer = buf
        self.clientKey = None
        self.SCcipher = None
        self.CScipher = None
        self.CSHalves = None
        self.SCHalves = None
        self.file = None

        usr_dict = {}

    def setSChalves(self):
        usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][SCHALVES] =
(Random.new().read(32),
                                              Random.new().read(32))

    def createCiphers(self):
        """Create the two ciphers we will be using for communication
        between negotiators"""
        name = str(self.client_address)
        usr_dict[name][1] = AES.new(SHA256.new(str("KCS",
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[SCHALVES][0],
 
self.serverKey.publickey(),
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[CSHALVES][0],
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[CLIENT_KEY].publickey())).digest())
        usr_dict[name][2] = AES.new(SHA256.new(str("KSC",
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[SCHALVES][1],
 
self.serverKey.publickey(),
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[CSHALVES][1],
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[CLIENT_KEY].publickey())).digest())

    def handleConn(self, clmsg):
        data = clmsg[1]
        if data[0] == self.host and data[1] == self.hostid:
            return True
        else:
            return False

    def getClientHalves(self, clmsg):
        """Get the halves from the clien as well as the client key."""
        print clmsg
        print "clmsg[1]", clmsg[1]
        data = stringToTuple(clmsg[1])
        print "tuple", data
        print "tuple[0]", data[0]
        print "tuple[1]", data[1]
        data = self.serverKey.decrypt(str(data[0]))
        print
        print "data:",data
        print
        data = stringToTuple(data)
        usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][CLIENT_KEY] =
RSA.construct((data[0],data[1]))
        usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][CSHALVES] = (data[2],
data[3])


    def handleFileReq(self, clmsg):
        """Determine if the file requested exists:
        TODO: if the client is allowed to acces"""

        data = DecodeAES(self.CScipher, clmsg[1])
        usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][FILENAME] = data
        return os.path.exists(usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][5])

    def packageFile(self):
        f = open(usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][5],"rb")
        data = f.read()
        f.close()
        crypt = EncodeAES(self.SCcipher, data)
        f = open(usr_dict[str(self.client_address)]
[5]+str(self.client_address),
                 "wb")
        f.write(crypt)
        f.close
        return (True,self.file+self.client.getAddr())


    def handleUserDisc(self, clmsg):
        os.remove(usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][FILENAME]
+str(self.client_address))



    def handle(self):

        #Plan on being asked for server comfirmation
        msg = self.request.recv(self.buffer)
        name = str(self.client_address)
        clmsg = None
        if not msg == "":
            clmsg = xmlrpc.loads()
        if not name in usr_dict:
            user_dict[name] = ["","","","","",""]

        print "handle Server ver"
        clmsg = clmsg[0]
        if clmsg[0] == CONN:
            if not self.handleConn(clmsg):
                print "Not right HostID"
                del usr_dict[name]

            else:
                #We got the right message send a reply with our key
                srvmsg = message(SERVER_INFO,
                                 str(self.serverKey.publickey()))
                self.request.send(xmlrpc.dumps(srvmsg.getSendable()))


        elif clmsg[0] == CS_KEY:
        #all this is public key encryption
        #plan on getting key halves from the client
            # as well as the clients public key
            print "get key/halves from client"
            self.getClientHalves(clmsg)

            #send over our halves now
            print "send halves"
            self.setSCHalves()
            srvmsg = message(SC_KEYDAT,
                             str(usr_dict[name]
[0].encrypt(usr_dict[name][4],"")))
        #everyones halves were sent so generate the ciphers
            self.createCiphers()

        #all this is AES encryption
        #### USER AUTH HERE JUST SENDING ACK FOR NOW

        #no user auth yet so just acknowledge the user exists
            print "send usr ack"
            srvmsg = message(USER_ACK, str(EncodeAES(usr_dict[name]
[2],True)))
            self.server.send(xmlrpc.dumps(servmsg.getSendable()))

        #the client should be sending a file request
        elif clmsg[0] == FILE_REQ:
            print "expecting file req"
            available = self.handleFileReq(clmsg)
            if available: #file is available
                srvmsg = message(FILE_ACK,
                                 str(EncodeAES(usr_dict[name]
[2],available)))
            else: #file isn't available
                srvmsg = message(FILE_ACK,
                                 str(EncodeAES(usr_dict[name]
[2],available)))
                print "File %s not Available" %self.file
                del usr_dict[name]


        #package the file and tell the client
            package = self.packageFile()
            srvmsg = message(DL_READY, EncodeAES(usr_dict[name][2],
                                                 package))
            self.server.send(xmlrpc(srvmsg.getSendable()))
            if not package[0]: # the file wasn't pakaged so close the
connection
        #the client tells us they got the file so just remove the file
that
            #was made
                print "expecting USER_DISC"
        else:
            if not usr_dict[name][5] == "":
                handleUserDisc(clmsg)
            del usr_dict[name]



class ServerNegotiator:
    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
        negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
        self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)


    def start(self):
        self.server.serve_forever()






Do I need to write the __call__() method as well?







From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 15:14:54 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:14:54 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkv405$f5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:13:22 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> You've
>>> dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
>>> "That's invalid, cuz."
>> That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.
> 
> Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I 
> understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native 
> English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are sometimes 
> ambiguous in English.
> 
> While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a 
> direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a 
> paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us now.)
> 
> Unfortunately, this means that in informal discussions like this it is 
> sometimes difficult to distinguish a direct quote from a paraphrase, 
> except by context. In context, as a native speaker, I can assure you that 
> Stephen Hansen's use of quotation marks is a paraphrase and not meant to 
> be read as a direct quote.

I'm aware that Stephen Hansen maintains that, but I'm not replying to his 
ramblings about insanity and so on (perhaps he is a child, but I'm not replying 
to that kind of stuff).

Anyway, in the original article he refererred to part of the quoted text, 
quoting that in turn as an example of how allegedly patronising (or whatever) 
I'd been to him.

Re-quoting a part *does not make sense* for paraphrasing.

And anyway, he wrote a piece where quotes seemed to signify quoting, drawing 
conclusions from the quoted text.

It's just plain lying.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From anthony.tolle at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:17:51 2010
From: anthony.tolle at gmail.com (Anthony Tolle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:17:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <923ca72c-7b21-4abe-920f-b0b148df8ec7@t42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 2:09?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> Some people have mathphobia. ?I'm developing a wicked case of
> Unicodephobia.
> [snip]

Some general advice (Looks like I am reiterating what MRAB said -- I
type slower :):

1. If possible, use unicode strings for everything.  That is, don't
use both str and unicode within the same project.

2. If that isn't possible, convert strings to unicode as early as
possible, work with them that way, then convert them back as late as
possible.

3. Know what type of string you are working with!  If a function
returns or accepts a string value, verify whether the expected type is
unicode or str.

4. Consider switching to Python 3.x, since there is only one string
type (unicode).

--


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:19:52 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:19:52 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <72157116-44AD-4F52-BB6E-35BBD629A7A6@gmail.com>

On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:
> 
> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
> 
>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>> common(?) use case
> 
> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
> commonly used in other places than COBOL?

Seriously?

I've seen it in dozens places other than COBOL over the years in everything from  templating languages to report generators, to built-in support in a variety of languages (dBASE II anyone?).

Haven't you ever had to get a e.g. a phone number or social security number from user input?

S




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 10 15:24:39 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:24:39 -0500
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <hkv4mb$k87$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/10/2010 5:21 AM, Quin wrote:
> Well, PyScripter works find with that code.  Furthermore, the
> un-intellisense in IronPython was problematic, inserting the wrong
> things, which I had to erase.
>
> Also, there were some code constructs IronPython let pass that
> PyScripter didn't, namely, print(), PyScripter requires the ()
>
> Something simple, like:
> n = -1
> if n <> -1:
> print('fell through')
>
> falls through to the print.
>
> So, I don't know what the problem is with IronPython, perhaps it isn't
> compatible with Python v3, but on my machine, at least, it doesn't perform.

'<>' is not legal in Python3, so above is not Python3 code.



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Feb 10 15:39:44 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:39:44 -0600
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B731990.4020400@tim.thechases.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>> common(?) use case
> 
> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
> commonly used in other places than COBOL?

I've spotted in the wild as recently as Visual Basic 6.  I don't 
know if remnants made it into Visual Fred (VB.net).  I think 
they're referred to as "format strings", but they're a mystical 
(and poorly documented) suite of characters that seem to have 
accrued features like my bathtub gets mildew.  Most folks just 
copy and paste the format strings from the web.

-tkc





From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 15:40:41 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:40:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2317.1265833198.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkv5k9$ki$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-10, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:
>> 
>> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>> 
>>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>>> common(?) use case
>> 
>> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
>> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
>> commonly used in other places than COBOL?
>
> Seriously?

Seriously.

> I've seen it in dozens places other than COBOL over the years
> in everything from templating languages to report generators,
> to built-in support in a variety of languages (dBASE II
> anyone?).
>
> Haven't you ever had to get a e.g. a phone number or social
> security number from user input?

Nope.  I guess it's specific to certain application areas. I've
never done any database type stuff.  I do mostly embedded,
device drivers, networking/protocols, industrial automation,
Unix system admin/automation, and scientific visualization.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I once decorated my
                                  at               apartment entirely in ten
                               visi.com            foot salad forks!!


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:42:17 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:42:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A silly question on file opening
Message-ID: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I was using Python with IDLE as GUI for quite some time. My Operating
System was Windows XP with Service Pack2.
Recently I changed the Operating System to Windows XP with Service
Pack3. I had to reinstall Python for which I downloaded
"python-2.6.4.msi"and loaded it in my D drive.

Here, as I am trying to open the file if I am giving a statement like,
  file_open=open("python26/file","r")
It is showing an error,
On checking how the files are stored it is showing that it is storing
in D drive directly but not in Python folder in D drive there is no
Python folder at all.
I tried to change the location to D:\file and as I saw in Python Docs
the file reading option is now "r+" so I changed the statement to
   file_open=open("D:\file","r+")
but it is still giving error.
Did I install it wrongly?
If you can please help it out.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:52:42 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:52:42 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hkv5k9$ki$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2317.1265833198.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv5k9$ki$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <C41384D0-8C61-4FFC-A1D1-E0FAD532B71C@gmail.com>


On Feb 10, 2010, at 3:40 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2010-02-10, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>>> 
>>>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>>>> common(?) use case
>>> 
>>> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
>>> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
>>> commonly used in other places than COBOL?
>> 
>> Seriously?
> 
> Seriously.
> 
>> I've seen it in dozens places other than COBOL over the years
>> in everything from templating languages to report generators,
>> to built-in support in a variety of languages (dBASE II
>> anyone?).
>> 
>> Haven't you ever had to get a e.g. a phone number or social
>> security number from user input?
> 
> Nope.  I guess it's specific to certain application areas. I've
> never done any database type stuff.  I do mostly embedded,
> device drivers, networking/protocols, industrial automation,
> Unix system admin/automation, and scientific visualization.

Yah, I've hardly ever had to get SSN input from users in a device driver ;-).

That's what makes groups like this go 'round; we have all done different types of things which gives us all different perspectives.

S



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Feb 10 15:56:02 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:56:02 -0800
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style
In-Reply-To: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B731D62.1010004@stoneleaf.us>

Tim Chase wrote:
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?
> 
> -tkc

If one branch is only a few lines, it comes first.  As often as not, 
that tiny branch is checking for errors, and the "else" branch doesn't 
need to be indented.

def func(arg1):
     if arg1 is 'stupid':
         raise ValueError("that's a stupid argument!")
     do_something
     do_something_else
     etc, etc


~Ethan~


From anthony.tolle at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:57:52 2010
From: anthony.tolle at gmail.com (Anthony Tolle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A silly question on file opening
References: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a01025f4-a6e2-42bd-ad5c-6b45827df81a@v36g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 3:42?pm, joy99 <subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Group,
> [snip]
> I tried to change the location to D:\file and as I saw in Python Docs
> the file reading option is now "r+" so I changed the statement to
> ? ?file_open=open("D:\file","r+")
> but it is still giving error.

Only use "r+" if you need to also write to the file.  "r" is still
good for opening for reading.

Without seeing a traceback, I can only assume the error is caused by
using a backslash in the path without escaping it.  Try either the
following:

file_open=open("D:\\file","r+")

file_open=open(r"D:\file","r+")

For an explanation, see the Python documentation:

http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-literals


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 10 16:03:01 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:03:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81 at m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

>On Feb 10, 11:09=A0am, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
>> FWIW, I'm using Python 2.6. =A0The example above happens to come from
>> a script that extracts data from HTML files, which are all in
>> English, but they are a daily occurrence when I write code to
>> process non-English text. =A0The script uses Beautiful Soup. =A0I won't
>> post a lot of code because, as I said, what I'm after is not so
>> much a way around this specific error as much as the tools and
>> techniques to troubleshoot it and fix it on my own. =A0But to ground
>> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
>> the execution of a statement of the form:
>>
>> =A0 x =3D '%s %s' % (y, z)
>>
>> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
>> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
>>
>> =A0 x =3D '%s' % y
>> =A0 x =3D '%s' % z
>> =A0 print y
>> =A0 print z
>> =A0 print y, z
>>

>What are y and z?

  x = "%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents())

where the variable table represents a BeautifulSoup.Tag instance.

>Are they unicode or strings?

The first item (table['id']) is unicode, and the second is str.

>What are their values?

The only easy way I know to examine the values of these strings is
to print them, which, I know, is very crude.  (IOW, to answer this
question usefully, in the context of this problem, more Unicode
knowhow is needed than I have.)  If I print them, the output for
the first one on my screen is "mainTable", and for the second it is

<th class="mainTableHeader" colspan="2">  Tags</th>
<th class="mainTableHeader">  Id</th>


>It sounds like someone, probably beautiful soup, is trying to turn
>your strings into unicode. A full stacktrace would be useful to see
>who did what where.

Unfortunately, there's not much in the stacktrace: 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./download_tt.py", line 427, in <module>
    x = "%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents())
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 41: ordinal not in range(128)

(NB: the difference between this error message and the one I
originally posted, namely the position of the unrecognized byte,
is because I simplified the code for the purpose of posting it
here, eliminating one additional processing of the second entry of
the tuple above.)

~K



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 16:14:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:14:51 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkv7oi$4k0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Duncan Booth:
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>
>>>> In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
>>>> (and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
>>>> objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
>>>> address. Try comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers
>>>> and you'll cause a lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the
>>>> id() value is in some way related to an address.
>>> Did you /read/ what you quoted?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's
>>>> nothing in the Python specification which prevents a Python
>>>> implementation doing the same for small integers, in fact I believe
>>>> it has been tried but wasn't found to improve performance.
>>> All theree of your points about Python are wrong; I don't know about
>>> the Ruby point. 
>>
>> Would you care to expand upon your claim that my three points about
>> Python are wrong?
> 
> Sure. I already did in the article you're replying to, immediately
> following what you quote above. You snipped that which you're asking
> for, so I requote:
> 
> 
> <quote>
> First, the current Python language specification formally prevents the
> optimization you mention, because there's no support for binding to do
> anything but direct binding leaving object identities unchanged.
> 
> But in practice that's no big deal though: I can't imagine any code
> relying on identities of completely immutable objects.
> 
> Second, even the variant that was tried improved performance.
> 
> But it would reportedly have wreaked havoc with imperfect C code.
> 
> Third, the optimization doesn't do away with pointers. If it did then it
> would transform the language completely. The user's view is still one
> where names denote pointers.
> </quote>
> 
> 
> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
> language spec.
> 
> 
>> Are you saying that CPyhton objects move around, or that IronPython
>> objects are fixed to a single memory location or that their id is
>> related to their address?
> 
> No, I can't see how you can deduce any such connection from I wrote.
> 
> Whether objects "move around" depends on what exactly you mean by "move
> around", and given that, it may then depend on the Python implementation.
> 
> However, from the Python point of view every object has a fixed unique
> id, available via id().
> 
> 
>> Clue here:
>>
>> IronPython 2.6 (2.6.10920.0) on .NET 2.0.50727.3082
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> x = 42
>>>>> id(x)
>> 43
>>>>> y = 43
>>>>> id(y)
>> 44
>>>>> z = "whatever"
>>>>> id(z)
>> 45
>>
> 
> I'm guessing wildly that you're trying to illustrate id's that don't
> correspond to memory addresses?
> 
> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
> might not even make sense.
> 
> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
> integer, in IronPython it's not.
> 
You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
constructed definition above as a pointer does not allow you to access
the value that is "pointed to". So I fail to see why you feel its its
introduction is necessary.

Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
access to the referenced value.

If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
the value for which the id() value was provided.

So in your world it's unnecessary for pointers to point to anything (or
references to refer to something)? For someone who cheerfully admits to
being wrong from time to time (an admirable characteristic) you are
certainly difficult to convince on this point. One wonders what further
hand-waving will follow.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:18:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:18:17 -0800
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002101318w2b72f255ga4ee2b643a8ac66d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:21 AM, Quin <quindennis at grandecom.net> wrote:

> Well, PyScripter works find with that code.  Furthermore, the
> un-intellisense in IronPython was problematic, inserting the wrong things,
> which I had to erase.
>

I think you're confused and are comparing apples to oranges. To define a
couple terms-- I'm starting at the basics, forgive me:

Python is a language; CPython is an implementation of that language, in C.
Often, Python and CPython are used interchangeably, but not always.

There are sort of two concurrent versions of Python available today, both
current; 2.6 and 3.1.

IronPython is an alternate implementation of the Python 2.6 language, built
upon the .NET platform. It's a language, not a tool. (Well, insofar as every
language is ultimately a tool). IronPython (like Jython, PyPy, and the other
Python alternate implementations) does not yet support Python 3.x.

PyScripter is an IDE for Python. IDE's have intellisense and such, languages
do not. I'm not sure what you were using as your IDE when you used
IronPython-- perhaps IronPython Studio? That's a distinct thing from
IronPython itself.

PyScripter can support both Python 2.x and 3.x, but I don't know if it
requires any settings to change between modes or if you have to select which
interpreter you want to use. We can only guess what actual version of Python
you're using from your comments, but it looks sort of like 2.x

Also, there were some code constructs IronPython let pass that PyScripter
> didn't, namely, print(), PyScripter requires the ()
>
> Something simple, like:
> n = -1
> if n <> -1:
>    print('fell through')
>
> falls through to the print.
>

PyScripter is not a language, but a tool; in Python 3.x, print requires the
() as it is a function. Additionally, in Python 3.x, you have to say "not
equal" as !=, you can't use <> anymore.

In Python 2.x, print is a statement. You /may/ put () around an expression
but that isn't the same thing. For simple operations it frequently looks the
same and produces the same output, though. In Python 2.x, you can say "not
equal" as either != or <>.

The original code:

s = f.readline()
if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
if 'mystring' in s:
  print 'processing'

... will only work on Python 2.x, as print is being used as a statement. If
you change print to a function, that code will work in either Python 2.x or
Python 3.x.

However, in both CPython and IronPython, the above is provably correct code.
It works fine: with those five lines alone, you are guaranteed to get
'foundit' followed by 'processing' if mystring is in s. With those five
lines alone, you must get that result. If you aren't, then there's something
else going on before or after-- and its not about IronPython vs CPython. To
help diagnose what's wrong, copy and paste -real- results from a command
prompt or interpreter when you run it, providing complete code. Something
else is going wrong, you're looking in the wrong place to find the solution.

If you're using an IDE, perhaps that IDE is doing something strange (though
I can't fathom what), or perhaps its pointing at a different version of
Python then you're expecting. We can't really tell from what you've said.

So, I don't know what the problem is with IronPython, perhaps it isn't
> compatible with Python v3, but on my machine, at least, it doesn't perform.
>

The current version of IronPython (http://ironpython.net/) is 2.6, yes. They
have not yet made a Python 3.x port. Then again, much of the code you've
shown us seems to imply you're using Python 2.x, not 3.x.

So I can't quite make sense of your environment yet to offer more help--
specifically, you seem to be saying IronPython, but not actually -mean-
IronPython, but instead some IDE?

--S
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Feb 10 16:19:14 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:19:14 -0800
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <72157116-44AD-4F52-BB6E-35BBD629A7A6@gmail.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<72157116-44AD-4F52-BB6E-35BBD629A7A6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002101319p407af3d7o5333c416b4db9522@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:19 PM, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:
>>
>> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>>
>>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>>> common(?) use case
>>
>> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
>> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
>> commonly used in other places than COBOL?
<snip>
> Haven't you ever had to get a e.g. a phone number or social security
number from user input?

If I have a GUI, I can just put 3 separate length-limited text fields and
then I only have to
check that the input is numerical and each field is of the right length; no
fiddling with
punctuation or manual separation into fields; or more likely, there's
already a phone
number widget! In other words, I won't care about the punctuation characters
anyway.

If I don't have a GUI:
(1) my program is probably not for end-users, so I can be less user-friendly
and more dictatorial about the required format
(2) or it's munging mediocre data from a DB and I need to be more
error-tolerant that picture formatting would allow
(3) in any case, it's not *that* hard to do without picture formatting
(although it might get tedious after a while,
probably hence why some languages in just the right niche indeed offer
picture formatting):

phone_parts = input("Phone number?: ").replace('(', '').replace(')',
'').split('-')
if not all(part.isdigit() for part in phone_parts) or [3,3,4] != map(len,
phone_parts):
   #error message to user

Stricter validation would either be user-unfriendly or is left as an
exercise to the reader.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 16:23:08 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 21:23:08 GMT
Subject: A silly question on file opening
References: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.10.21.23.08@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:42:17 -0800, joy99 wrote:

> I tried to change the location to D:\file and as I saw in Python Docs
> the file reading option is now "r+" so I changed the statement to
>    file_open=open("D:\file","r+")
> but it is still giving error.


You should copy and paste (do not re-type!) the *exact* line that leads 
to an error, and the full traceback that Python prints.

But in this case I can guess what the problem is. Like most C-inspired 
languages, Python uses backslashes to put in special characters: e.g. \n 
for newline, \t for tab, and \f for formfeed.

So when you try to open "D:\file" you are actually looking for a file on 
D drive called (chr(12) + "ile"), not "file".

The solution to this is to remember that Windows accepts forward slashes 
as well as backslashes, and always use the forward slash. So try:

open("D:/file") 

and see if that works.


>>> print "D:\file"
D:
  ile
>>> print "D:/file"
D:/file





-- 
Steven


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:27:36 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:27:36 -0500
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style
In-Reply-To: <4B731D62.1010004@stoneleaf.us>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com> <4B731D62.1010004@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002101327j1e2ceff3vd899d493f68443f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> Tim Chase wrote:
>>
>> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?
>>
>> -tkc
>
> If one branch is only a few lines, it comes first. ?As often as not, that
> tiny branch is checking for errors, and the "else" branch doesn't need to be
> indented.
>
> def func(arg1):
> ? ?if arg1 is 'stupid':
> ? ? ? ?raise ValueError("that's a stupid argument!")
> ? ?do_something
> ? ?do_something_else
> ? ?etc, etc
>
>
> ~Ethan~
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Something similar in a for-loop:

for x in y:
   if not should_process(x): continue

  # process x

-- 
Gerald Britton


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:33:41 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:33:41 -0800
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002101333q64006b8bm29ad9b7f82a60973@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:03 PM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

> >What are y and z?
>
>   x = "%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents())
>
> where the variable table represents a BeautifulSoup.Tag instance.
>
> >Are they unicode or strings?
>
> The first item (table['id']) is unicode, and the second is str.
>

The problem is you are mixing unicode and strings; if you want to  support
unicode at all, you should use it -everywhere- within your program.

At the entry-points, you should convert from strings to unicode, then use
unicode -exclusively-.

Here, you are trying to combine a unicode variable with a string variable,
and Python is -trying- to convert it for you, but it can't. I suspect you
aren't actually realizing this implicit conversion is going on: Python's
trying to produce an output string according to what you've requested. To do
that, it is upgrading x from string to unicode, and then writing to that
string first table['id'] then table.tr.renderContents().

Its the table.tr.renderContents that, I believe, is your problem: it is a
byte string, but it contains encoded data. You have to 'upgrade' it to
unicode before you can pump it over into x, because Python doesn't know what
encoding that is. It just knows there's a character somewhere in there that
doesn't fit into ASCII.

I can't quite tell you what the encoding is, though it may be UTF8. Try:
table.tr.renderContents().decode("utf8")

Its an easy mistake to make.

To further illustrate, do this:

>>> "%s %s" % (u'hi', u'bye')
u'hi bye'

Even though you're assigning a regular string to "x", you're using a format
str to merge in a unicode string to it. So Python implicitly upgrades your
format string, as if you had typed:

>>> u"%s %s" % (u'hi', 'bye')

Upgrading a string to unicode is easy, provided a string contains nothing
but plain ASCII. The moment it contains encoded data, the default
translation fails. So you have to explicitly tell Python how to convert the
byte string back into unicode-- meaning, you have to decode it.

Take this example:

>>> s = u"He\u2014llo".encode("utf8")
>>> s
'He\xe2\x80\x94llo'
>>> "%s %s" % (u'hi', s)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 2:
ordinal not in range(128)
>>> "%s %s" % (u'hi', s.decode("utf8"))
u'hi He\u2014llo'

I started out with a string, "s", containing Hello with an em-dash stuck in
the middle. I encoded it as UTF8: its now a byte string  similar to what may
exist on any webpage you get. Remember, pure "unicode" exists only in
memory. Everything on the internet or a file is /encoded/. You work with
unicode in memory, then encode it to some form when writing it out--
anywhere.

When I first try to combine the two, I get an error like you got.

But if I explicitly decode my 's', it all works fine. The encoded form is
translated back into unicode.

As for how to debug and deal with issues like this... never mix unicode and
regular strings, use unicode strings exclusively in your logic, and decode
as early as possible. Then the only problem you're likely to run into is
situations where a claimed encoding/charset is a lie. (Web servers sometimes
claim charset/encoding A, or a file may claim charset/encoding B, even
though the file was written out by someone with charset/encoding C... and
there's no easy way to go around fixing such situations)

HTH,
--S
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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:39:33 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:39:33 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
	<0382bdeb$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<m2k4ulx7r8.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<0382ef76$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <m2fx58ydm2.fsf@googlemail.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:31:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>
>> It's not ideal, but you can use a decorator like this to solve this
>> problem:
>> 
>> def bindfunction(f):
>>     def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
>>         return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
>>     bound_f.__name__ = f.__name__
>>     return bound_f
>
> Ah, very nice. Perhaps it's better to use functools.wraps?
>
> import functools
>
> def bindfunction(f):
>     @functools.wraps(f)
>     def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
>         return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
>     return bound_f

I think I wrote this before functools :).  Anyway it still doesn't work
with mutually recursive functions.  I also tried another approach (can't
find the file anymore, so I've redone it, sorry no time to make it very
readable) as below.  It doesn't require an extra first argument for the
function and it takes care of mutually recursive functions if used as in
the example.


def bindglobals(*args):
    """
    Binds all the globals in all the arguments which must be functions.
    return the new bound functions.  When called with a single argument,
    return the bound function so it can be used as a decorator.  It is
    assumed that all argument are functions and have the same global
    namespace
    """
    function_names = [f.__name__ for f in args]
    def get_global(f, n):
        d = f.func_globals
        if n not in d:
            d = d['__builtins__'].__dict__
        return d[n]
    bound_globals = dict(
        (n, get_global(f, n))
        for f in args for n in f.func_code.co_names
        if n not in function_names
        )
    bound_functions = [
        type(f)(f.func_code, bound_globals, f.func_name,
                f.func_defaults, f.func_closure)
        for f in args
        ]
    bound_globals.update(zip(function_names, bound_functions))
    if len(args) == 1:
        return bound_functions[0]
    else:
        return bound_functions

# Example

@bindglobals
def fac(n):
    return 1 if n <= 1 else n*fac(n - 1)

# Decorator syntax cannot be used with mutually recursive functions:

def even(n):
    return True if not n else odd(n - 1)

def odd(n):
    return False if not n else even(n - 1)

even, odd = bindglobals(even, odd)

# Example in action:

>>> fac(10)
3628800
>>> f = fac
>>> fac = 'foo'
>>> f(10)
3628800
>>> even(5), odd(5)
(False, True)
>>> e, o = even, odd
>>> even, odd = 'spam', 'eggs'
>>> e(5), o(5)
(False, True)

This is proof of concept stuff - probably very fragile!

-- 
Arnaud


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Feb 10 16:43:14 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:43:14 -0800
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002101343h5a853325g74c8b470735b95e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:03 PM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:
> In <402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81 at m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
<huge snip>
>>It sounds like someone, probably beautiful soup, is trying to turn
>>your strings into unicode. A full stacktrace would be useful to see
>>who did what where.
>
> Unfortunately, there's not much in the stacktrace:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./download_tt.py", line 427, in <module >
>    x = "%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents())
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 41:
ordinal not in range(128)

Think I've found the problem. According to the BeautifulSoup docs,
renderContents() returns
a (by default, UTF-8-encoded) str [i.e. byte sequence] as opposed to
unicode[i.e. abstract code point sequence]
.
Thus, as was said previously, you're combining the unicode from
table['id']and the
str from renderContents(),
so Python tries to automatically+implicitly convert the str to unicode by
decoding it as ASCII.
However, it's not ASCII but UTF-8, hence you get the error about it having
non-ASCII bytes.

Solution: Convert the output of renderContents() back to unicode.

x = u"%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents().decode('utf8'))

Now only unicode objects are being combined.

Your problem is particularly ironic considering how well BeautifulSoup
handles Unicode overall;
I was unable to locate a renderContents() equivalent that returned unicode.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 16:46:19 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 21:46:19 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
> level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language
> spec.

Python doesn't have "copyable reference values" in the Python level. It 
has objects.

It seems to me that your argument is based on the premises:

(1) that the "value" of a variable is not what 99.99% of people would 
describe as the value, but is some hidden, implementation dependent 
"pointer" instead;

(2) that "pointer" doesn't necessarily mean what 99% of people who 
learned C or Pascal understand by pointer;

(3) that mangling both common English and programmers' expectations in 
that fashion is somehow more accurate and more useful than using the 35 
year old term "call by object" (or "call by object reference");

(4) and, presumably because of some deeply-held belief that the only 
parameter passing strategies that we're allowed to talk about are "call 
by value" and "call by reference", no matter how much violence we do to 
the concept of both value and pointer, Python and Java must be call-by-
value since they clearly aren't call-by-reference.


Of these, the only one that I consider value is that Python and Java are 
not call-y-reference. Otherwise, I reject all these premises, and 
consequently none of your arguments make the slightest sense to me. You 
keep talking about Python operating on pointers. I've never used a single 
pointer in 10+ years of Python coding, no matter how many times you tell 
me I have. What the implementation of the Python virtual machine does is 
not what I do high-level Python code, and the implementation is not the 
language.



-- 
Steven


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:47:19 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:47:19 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2306.1265822617.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2bpfwyd94.fsf@googlemail.com>

MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> writes:


> Does this mean that Python needs, say, __function__ (and perhaps also
> __module__)?

See PEP 3130 "Access to Current Module/Class/Function" (rejected)
(http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3130/)

-- 
Arnaud


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:47:44 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:47:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a79d8c-65d2-41e3-bb61-5a987b40be1b@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 7:36?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Larry Hudson wrote:
> > But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>
> > if 'mystring' not in s:
> > ? ? ?print 'not found'
> > else:
> > ? ? ?print 'foundit'
> > ? ? ?print 'processing'
>
> I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as
> Larry does, or as
>
> ? ?if 'mystring' in s
> ? ? ?print 'foundit'
> ? ? ?print 'processing'
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ?print 'not found'
[pass]
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?


I almost always arrange it as follows, regardless of the size of the
blocks or whether the condition is negated or not:

if (typical-condition):
    typical-case
else:
    exceptional-case

In particular I almost always test if something is not None, because
being None is almost always the exceptional case:

if x is not None:
    ...
else:
    ...

However, whenever the exceptional case action is to break, return,
continue, or raise an exception, I'll test for it and leave the
typical case unnested:

if (exceptional-condition):
    exceptional-case
typical-case

No, it deosn't bother me in the least that I sometimes test for the
exceptional case and sometimes for the typical.

Whenever there is no typical case or exceptional case I'll go for the
simpler condition.


Carl Banks


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb 10 16:49:40 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:49:40 -0300
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:59:41 -0300, Muhammad Alkarouri  
<malkarouri at gmail.com> escribi?:

> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> inside it, other than using its explicit name?
> In a function like f below:
>
> def f(*args):
>     f.args = args
>     print args
>
> is there any other way?

See this:

>>> def foo(): pass
...
>>> import sys
>>> sys.getrefcount(foo)
2

The 2 means that there is a *single* reference to the function - the foo  
name in the global namespace. No other reference exists, there is no  
hidden attribute somewhere that you may use. If you want another way to  
reach the function, you'll have to add it yourself.

I've written a decorator for "injecting" a __function__ name into the  
function namespace, but I can't find it anywhere.  I think I implemented  
it by adding a fake additional argument and replacing LOAD_GLOBAL with  
LOAD_NAME in the bytecode.

> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a
> valid one at the moment, sorry.

One reason would be to write truly recursive functions (currently, a  
recursive call involves a name lookup, which could potentially return a  
different function). Another one, to implement some kind of tail call  
optimization.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 10 16:55:07 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:55:07 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b732b20$0$5011$607ed4bc@cv.net>

On 2/10/2010 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com<python at bdurham.com>  wrote:
>
> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>
>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>> common(?) use case
>
> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
> commonly used in other places than COBOL?
>

FWIW, Microsoft Excel supports "Custom" numeric cell formats that use a 
PICTURE-like syntax.

-John


From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Wed Feb 10 16:57:09 2010
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:57:09 -0500
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002101318w2b72f255ga4ee2b643a8ac66d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<7a9c25c21002101318w2b72f255ga4ee2b643a8ac66d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265839029.5997.11.camel@aalcdl07>

On Wed, 2010-02-10 at 13:18 -0800, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> 
> The original code:
> 
> 
> s = f.readline()
> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
> if 'mystring' in s:
>   print 'processing'
> 
> 
> ... will only work on Python 2.x, as print is being used as a
> statement. If you change print to a function, that code will work in
> either Python 2.x or Python 3.x.
> 
> 
> However, in both CPython and IronPython, the above is provably correct
> code. It works fine: with those five lines alone, you are guaranteed
> to get 'foundit' followed by 'processing' if mystring is in s. With
> those five lines alone, you must get that result. If you aren't, then
> there's something else going on before or after-- and its not about
> IronPython vs CPython. To help diagnose what's wrong, copy and paste
> -real- results from a command prompt or interpreter when you run it,
> providing complete code. Something else is going wrong, you're looking
> in the wrong place to find the solution.

One other assumption that you are making is that f is a file-like object
that supports a reasonalbe readline function.

Quin: can you Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V the following code into a python file, by
itself, and run it to reproduce your problem?

from StringIO import StringIO
f = StringIO('This string contains mystring')
s = f.readline()
if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
if 'mystring' in s:
   print 'processing'

# Should print:
# foundit
# processing
f = StringIO('This string does not contain MyStRiNg')
s = f.readline()
if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
if 'mystring' in s:
   print 'processing'
# Should print:
# not found

And please, humor me and copy and paste the exact results as returned by
your IronPython interpreter. 





From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 17:02:27 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:02:27 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
>> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
>> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
>> language spec.
>>
[snip]
>>
>> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
>> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
>> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
>> might not even make sense.
>>
>> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
>> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
>> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
>> integer, in IronPython it's not.
>>
> You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
> constructed definition above

No, it's not bizarre, it's the standard general language independent definition.

And since I'm referring to an external definition (Java) it's not mine, either. :-)


> as a pointer does not allow you to access
> the value that is "pointed to". So I fail to see why you feel its its
> introduction is necessary.

Python provides a number of ways to access the object pointed to.

Attribute access, indexing, and operators access the objects pointed to.

For example,

   x = s[0]

accesses the object that s points (refers) to.

While 'is', 'id' and assignment operate on the pointers (references) themselves.

So there's one set of language features that operate on pointers, and one set of 
language features that operate on the pointed to objects. This is so also in 
Java and C#. For example.


> Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
> id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
> expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
> access to the referenced value.

Yes, the id does not give you access to the referenced object.


> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
> the value for which the id() value was provided.

No, I don't disagree with that.

It would be excessively inefficient to do, involving enumeration of all objects.


> So in your world it's unnecessary for pointers to point to anything (or
> references to refer to something)? For someone who cheerfully admits to
> being wrong from time to time (an admirable characteristic) you are
> certainly difficult to convince on this point. One wonders what further
> hand-waving will follow.

He he, "further" handwaiving: you're good at unsubstantiated allegations.

I generally strive to provide concrete examples, and you know it.

Anywyay, treating the first sentence as a genuine question: in the most likely 
interpretation it seems that you're conflating id's with pointers. An id() value 
uniquely represents a pointer (i.e., the identity of the object pointed to). It 
is not itself a pointer since it lack any pointer semantics.

For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in Python 
there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to anything, namely as 
exemplified by

    def foo():
        print( x )
        x = "whatever"

The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says 
something like "unbound". Which means the same.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 17:09:25 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:09:25 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ethan Furman:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to 
>> argue with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.
> 
> It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who 
> are attempting to teach him.  At the rate it's going, though, I don't 
> see myself buying any book he produces.
> 
> Besides the arrogant attitude, he is wrong on so many things about 
> Python it is truly stunning.

That's bullshit. I am probably wrong about many Python things, for this is so no 
matter the language and the practictioner, but not any that you know about.


>  He seems to have confidence born of 
> ignorance... a scary sight to see.
> 
> In the spirit of being helpful and not just being a jerk myself:
> 
> Alf,
> 
> Using smileys after declaring somebody is mistaken/wrong/etc makes you 
> look bad.
> 
> Not attempting to learn the language makes you look like an arrogant 
> idiot (case in point: passing-by-object).
> 
> Accusing anyone and everyone that criticizes you of making ad hominem 
> (sp?) attacks makes you look like a whiner.
> 
> After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python, I 
> might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than winning 
> presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding is not 
> worth paying for.
> 
> Hoping-this-helps-but-not-really-expecting-it-to-ly yours,

It's yet another ad hominem attack, which means that you're painfully aware of 
supporting an untenable technical position, or supporting a clique of people.

It also reflects rather badly on you.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 10 17:13:06 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:13:06 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B732F72.1030208@optimum.net>

On 2/10/2010 1:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python, I
> might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than winning
> presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding is not
> worth paying for.
>

Alf, here's my suggestion on how to respond to people's criticisms of 
your technical prowess: come up with the "best ever" description of 
Python's variable-assignment and argument-passing schemes, and place the 
description in your manuscript [1]. Section 2.4, "Naming things", 
currently does not address the issues discussed in this thread ("pass by 
XXX", etc.).

HTH,
John

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-December/1229932.html


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:19:50 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:19:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
Message-ID: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to right a server that needs specific information for each
client accessing it.  The easiest way I could think of doing this is
keeping this information based on ip address (the information is only
valid for a short time).  I know there is no was to get the client's
address directly and have seen a few examples of subclassing the
SimpleXMLRPCServer like this:

class RPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer):

def _dispatch(self, method, params):
"""Extend dispatch, adding client info to some parameters."""
if method in ({my list of methods I needed client address}):
return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method,
params+(self.client_address,))
return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method, params);


but to be honest I don't understand what's going on there or how to
use it.  Would anyone be able to explain this to me?


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:19:50 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:19:50 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <m27hqkybqx.fsf@googlemail.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:
[...]
> That's bullshit.
[...]
> not any that you know about.
[...]
> yet another ad hominem attack
[...]
> It also reflects rather badly on you.
[...]
> - Alf

Alf, 

The above was extracted from the last post from you but I could have
picked almost any of your recent endeavours.  I've come to the
conclusion that you're not a cute furry alien with a long nose.  You're
a big bad troll!

-- 
Arnaud


From icanbob at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:19:55 2010
From: icanbob at gmail.com (bobicanprogram)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:19:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: strange issue with C extension using Py_BuildValue
Message-ID: <f595b93d-3b53-4e6f-bfde-1c046a8b7d6e@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

I'm am having "strange" problems with the code snip below.

When this code is built on a 64bit Linux,  it would appear to work
flawlessly.    When the source is rebuilt on a 32bit Linux it begins
to crack in strange ways.   The issue seems to be associated with the
sender field in the Py_BuildValue call.    The fact that sender is a
pointer should mean that its value is an unsigned integer.    However,
on the 32 bit build the failure is that the msgPtr->data value is
"messed up".   If the format associated with the sender (a pointer)
from "L" to "i" things work on the 32 bit side but break on the 64 bit
side.

I fully understand that an address will be stored differently on the
64bit vs. the 32bit systems.  The problem is that the code is
recompiled from source in both cases so shouldn't the "L" format work
as expected in both architectures?    Furthermore,  how can an
incorrect format result in messing up the field which follows?

Thanks in advance for any help.

bob
PS.
The Python side using this extension isn't expecting to do anything
with the sender parameter other than store it for later use as a
parameter in a Reply() function call.   ie. an address goes from
extension ->Python -> extension.

========= begin code snip ===================
static PyObject *simpl_receive(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
int ret;
char *sender;
FCMSG_REC *msgPtr;

// call the actual simpl C library function
ret = Receive(&sender, NULL, 0);

// what sort of message are we dealing with?
if (ret > 0) // message
	{
	msgPtr = (FCMSG_REC *)sender;
	return( Py_BuildValue("iLz#", ret, sender, &msgPtr->data, ret) );
	}

========== end code snip ============


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 10 17:30:24 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:30:24 +1300
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkq0aj$v4s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b712919$0$6584$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <hkvc20$3gu$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <4b712919$0$6584$9b4e6d93 at newsspool3.arcor-online.net>, Stefan 
Behnel wrote:

> Usually PyPI.

Where do you think these tools come from? They don?t write themselves, you 
know.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb 10 17:37:36 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:37:36 -0300
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkum2p$4i0$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7xnsylwx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:15:22 -0300, Grant Edwards  
<invalid at invalid.invalid> escribi?:
> On 2010-02-09, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>> En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:10:56 -0300, Grant Edwards
>> <invalid at invalid.invalid> escribi?:
>>
>>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>>> MS-bashing here]
>>
>> I'm not sure you can blame MS of this issue; anyway, this
>> patch should fix the problem:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=896256
>
> I'm curious why it wouldn't be Microsoft's fault, because
>
>  A) Everything is Microsoft's fault. ;)
>
>  B) If a patch to MS Windows fixes the problem, how is it not a
>     problem in MS Windows?

I won't argue against A) because its truthness (?) is self-evident :)

99% of my code does not run in Python 3.x; I may fix it and it will  
eventually run fine, but that doesn't mean it's *my* fault.

The original problem was with the RDTSC instruction on multicore CPUs;  
different cores may yield different results because they're not  
synchronized at all times.

Windows XP was launched in 2001, and the first dual core processors able  
to execute Windows were AMD Opteron and IBM Pentium D, both launched  
around April 2005 (and targeting the server market, not the home/desktop  
market of Windows XP).
How could MS know in 2001 of a hardware issue that would happen four years  
in the future?
Guido seems very jealous of his time machine and does not lend it to  
anyone.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 17:40:34 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:40:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkvcl2$s2e$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:

> In code, using SetProcessAffinityMask and related functions:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms686223(VS.85).aspx

That solves the problem.  If I don't set the process affinity
mask, I regularly get measurements that are off by 6ms.  I
presume 6ms is the skew between the two cores' performance
counter values.  I don't know if that difference is stable or
how it varies, but now it doesn't matter. :)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! If our behavior is
                                  at               strict, we do not need fun!
                               visi.com            


From misceverything at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:55:22 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:55:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<m2zl3i3xvf.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <96353030-0e0c-4035-ae4a-5ab475251d4b@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 4:25?pm, David Bolen <db3l.... at gmail.com> wrote:
> David Bolen <db3l.... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Not from my past experience - the system account (LocalSystem for
> > services) can be surprising, in that it's pretty much unlimited access
> > to all local resources, but severely limited in a handful of cases,
> > one of which is any attempt to access the network. ?I can't recall for
> > sure if it's an absolute block, or if in some cases you can configure
> > around it (e.g., it might use a null session for remote shares which
> > can be enabled through the registry on the target machine). ?I've
> > basically stuck "LocalSystem = no network" in my head from past
> > experience.
>
> Given it's been a few years, I decided to try some tests, and the
> above is too simplistic.
>
> The LocalSystem account runs without any local Windows credentials
> (e.g., not like a logged in user), which has several consequences.
> One is that you can't access any network resources that require such
> credentials (like shares). ?However, there's no sort of firewall
> filtering or anything, so plain old TCP/IP connections are fine.
> Unless, of course, the client being used also has other needs for
> local Windows credentials, independent or as a pre-requisite to the
> network operations.
>
> So backing up a bit, the TCP/IP connection that plink is making is not
> inherently disabled by running under LocalSystem, but it's certainly
> possible that plink is trying to identify the user under which it is
> operating to perhaps identify ssh keys or other local resources it
> needs to operate. ?You might be able to cover this with command line
> options (e.g., plink supports "-i" to specify a key file to use), but
> you'll also need to ensure that the file you are referencing is
> readable by the LocalSystem account.
>
> One of the other responders had a very good point about locating plink
> in the first place too. ?Services run beneath an environment that is
> inherited from the service control manager process, and won't include
> various settings that are applied to your user when logged in,
> especially things like local path changes, and working directories.
> Should you change the system path (via the environment settings),
> you'll need to reboot for the service control manager to notice - I
> don't think you can restart it without a reboot.
>
> So it's generally safer to be very clear, and absolute when possible,
> in a service for paths to external resources.
>
> The prior advice of running the service as an identified user (e.g.,
> with local credentials) is still good as it does remove most of these
> issues since if you can run the script manually under that user you
> know it'll work under service. ?But it's not a hard requirement.
>
> If your script is dying such that a top level exception is being
> raised you should be able to find it in the application event log. ?So
> that might give further information on what about the different
> environment is problematic.
>
> You can also use the win32traceutil module to help with grabbing debug
> output on the fly. ?Import the module in your service, which will
> implicitly redirect stdout/stderr to a trace buffer. ?Run the same
> win32traceutil module from the command line in another window. ?Then
> start the service. ?Any stdout/stderr will be reflected in the other
> window. ?Can't catch everything (suppressed exceptions, or I/O that
> doesn't flow through the script's stdout/stderr), but again might help
> point in the right direction.
>
> -- David

Great suggestions once again - I did verify that it was at least
running the plink.exe binary when under LocalSystem by having the
service run "plink.exe > C:\plinkoutput.txt" - this worked fine.  And,
as I mentioned, it's now working just fine when running under a
regular admin account.  So, I think that's going to be my solution to
avoid any further issues.  My best guess at this point (as you
mentioned), is that plink.exe is doing _something_ network-related
that LocalSystem doesn't have the privileges to do - what exactly it
is, I have no idea.  I may play around with it some more later, but
running the service under an admin account should be a perfectly
acceptable solution.

Also, I will be writing other Python apps that the service will be
executing - so it goes without saying that I'll be including a log to
file option :)  Thanks again for all your guys' help!


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 17:56:36 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:56:36 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
>> level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language
>> spec.
> 
> Python doesn't have "copyable reference values" in the Python level. It 
> has objects.

Given

   s = [1]
   t = s         # Copies reference.
   t[0] = 2      # Changes referenced object via copied reference.
   print( s )    # Checks the object via the original reference.

your argument that the copied reference does not exist, is just silly.

And you know it.



> It seems to me that your argument is based on the premises:
> 
> (1) that the "value" of a variable is not what 99.99% of people would 
> describe as the value, but is some hidden, implementation dependent 
> "pointer" instead;

No. The Python language spec defines what value of an object means. And people 
use "value" with many different meanings, using Common Sense to arbitrate.

It would be senseless to try to pin down a single meaning of the word "value".

You're arguing against a position unrelated to mine.


> (2) that "pointer" doesn't necessarily mean what 99% of people who 
> learned C or Pascal understand by pointer;

No.

But although this is "just" a terminological issue, it's worth discussing.

I refuse to believe that 99% of C and Pascal programmers believe that "pointer" 
only refers to the pointer implementation in their language of choice.

In my first article in this thread I specifically referred to the Java language 
specification, which says, first sentence in ?4.3.1 in the 3.0 spec, that


   "The reference values (often just references) are pointers to these objects,
    and a special null reference, which refers to no object."


which is relevant to Python because Java has the same semantics, although Java 
"NullPointerException" is called "unbound" in Python (but this is again just 
terminology, not semantics). I.e., the general pointer term /can/ be used, and 
is used, for reference values. Only a willingness to misinterpret can cause 
confusion, at least when the terminology is defined, as I've done all the time.

Secondly I referred (actually that was in response to you) to a Stanford 
University introduction to pointers, comparing four languages including Java.

I didn't refer you to Wikipedia because that article seems to lack mention of 
reference based languages and does include a reference to an article that I 
wrote about pointers in C++ (now off-net), and given the noise level here it 
would therefore probably not help.


> (3) that mangling both common English and programmers' expectations in 
> that fashion is somehow more accurate and more useful than using the 35 
> year old term "call by object" (or "call by object reference");

No, I haven't stated any opposition to using that term; the archives show the 
opposite.

So for the second time here you're arguing against a silly position that I do 
not hold.


> (4) and, presumably because of some deeply-held belief that the only 
> parameter passing strategies that we're allowed to talk about are "call 
> by value" and "call by reference", no matter how much violence we do to 
> the concept of both value and pointer, Python and Java must be call-by-
> value since they clearly aren't call-by-reference.

Well that's the third time here that you're arguing against a silly position 
that I do not hold.


> Of these, the only one that I consider value is that Python and Java are 
> not call-y-reference. Otherwise, I reject all these premises,

Good rejection as far as 1, 3 and 4 are concerned.

Regarding the term "pointer", your point 2, I strongly encourage you to seek out 
the sources I've referenced and quoted.

For without a common language it's difficult to communicate, and if Python 
programmers should continue to not understand common terms then that would just 
further flame wars such as this thread has escalated to. Please seek out 
sources. Don't just take my word, instead, read e.g. what I've quoted, try out 
the example I've given, and so on: be critical (to your own assumptions also!).


> and 
> consequently none of your arguments make the slightest sense to me.

Well, you'd first have to examine at least one of my arguments. In this article 
you haven't, instead attacking a number of positions that I haven't advocated 
and do not hold, except for your silly denial of existence of references at the 
top. But that's just silly  --  consider the concrete example given.


> You 
> keep talking about Python operating on pointers. I've never used a single 
> pointer in 10+ years of Python coding, no matter how many times you tell 
> me I have. What the implementation of the Python virtual machine does is 
> not what I do high-level Python code, and the implementation is not the 
> language.

Here again you're conflating things and engage in a kind of denial coupled with 
a correct argument. It's hard to argue against such confusion. Instead I've 
tried above to address your only relevant point, by a concrete example.

Summing up, denying the existence of references, as you do at the top, is just 
silly; do consider the code example.

Your points 1, 3 and 4 attack positions that I do not hold and have not advocated.

Your point 2, about terminology, is important on its own. And I suggest you 
check out the references I've given. And read what I quoted from the language 
specification of a language with the same semantics as Python.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From dmalcolm at redhat.com  Wed Feb 10 18:03:32 2010
From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:32 -0500
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <923ca72c-7b21-4abe-920f-b0b148df8ec7@t42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<923ca72c-7b21-4abe-920f-b0b148df8ec7@t42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1265843012.8386.17.camel@brick>

On Wed, 2010-02-10 at 12:17 -0800, Anthony Tolle wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2:09 pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> > Some people have mathphobia.  I'm developing a wicked case of
> > Unicodephobia.
> > [snip]
> 
> Some general advice (Looks like I am reiterating what MRAB said -- I
> type slower :):
> 
> 1. If possible, use unicode strings for everything.  That is, don't
> use both str and unicode within the same project.
> 
> 2. If that isn't possible, convert strings to unicode as early as
> possible, work with them that way, then convert them back as late as
> possible.
> 
> 3. Know what type of string you are working with!  If a function
> returns or accepts a string value, verify whether the expected type is
> unicode or str.
> 
> 4. Consider switching to Python 3.x, since there is only one string
> type (unicode).

Some further nasty gotchas:

5. Be wary of the encoding of sys.stdout (and stderr/stdin), e.g. when
issuing a "print" statement:  they can change on Unix depending on
whether the python process is directly connected to a tty or not.

(a) If they're directly connected to a tty, their encoding is taken from
the locale, UTF-8 on my machine:
[david at brick ~]$ python -c 'print u"\u03b1\u03b2\u03b3"'
???
(prints alpha, beta, gamma to terminal, though these characters might
not survive being sent in this email)

(b) If they're not (e.g. cronjob, daemon, within a shell pipeline, etc)
their encoding is the default encoding, which is typically ascii;
rerunning the same command, but piping into "cat":
[david at brick ~]$ python -c 'print u"\u03b1\u03b2\u03b3"'| cat
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position
0-2: ordinal not in range(128)

(c) These problems can lurk in sources and only manifest themselves
during _deployment_ of code.  You can set PYTHONIOENCODING=ascii in the
environment to force (a) to behave like (b), so that your code will fail
whilst you're _developing_ it, rather than on your servers at midnight:
[david at brick ~]$ PYTHONIOENCODING=ascii python -c 'print u"\u03b1\u03b2
\u03b3"'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position
0-2: ordinal not in range(128)

(Given the above, it could be argued perhaps that one should never
"print" unicode instances, and instead should write the data to
file-like objects, specifying an encoding.  Not sure).

6. If you're using pygtk (specifically the "pango" module, typically
implicitly imported), be warned that it abuses the C API to set the
default encoding inside python, which probably breaks any unicode
instances in memory at the time, and is likely to cause weird side
effects:
[david at brick ~]$ python
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jan 25 2010, 13:22:47) 
[GCC 4.4.2 20100121 (Red Hat 4.4.2-28)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
'ascii'
>>> import pango
>>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
'utf-8'
(the above is on Fedora 12, though I'd expect to see the same weirdness
on any linux distro running gnome 2)

Python 3 will probably make this all much easier; you'll still have to
care about encodings when dealing with files/sockets/etc, but it should
be much more clear what's going on.  I hope.

Hope this is helpful
Dave



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 18:11:10 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 23:11:10 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.10.23.11.10@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:02:27 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
> Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
> anything, namely as exemplified by
> 
>     def foo():
>         print( x )
>         x = "whatever"
> 
> The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says
> something like "unbound". Which means the same.

Not in plain language. NullPointerException means that x is assigned to a 
null pointer, and you have tried to follow that pointer. Unbound means 
that x has nothing assigned to it. Semantically, the difference is 
somewhat analogous to the situations:

"the president is dead, and a new president hasn't yet been appointed"
(the office of the president is currently assigned to a dead guy)

versus

"the king has dissolved parliament and with it the office of president"
(there is no president at all)

Now, of course we understand that in the implementation of CPython, local 
variables are stored efficiently in slots in an array, and you can't have 
empty slots: every address always has some bit pattern. It is very likely 
that the CPython implementation uses a nil pointer to indicate an empty 
slot just like Java does. The difference is that Java exposes that 
implementation decision as part of the language specification, while 
Python deliberately does not.

It isn't an accident that the Python exception describes the *semantics* 
of the error (x is not bound to any value) rather than the implementation 
detail (the slot known as x has a nil pointer in it). Semantically, the 
Python language treats the slot as empty and leaves the details of how 
the implementation recognises empty slots as an implementation decision.

I'm just as interested by the implementation decisions made in CPython as 
the next guy, but they don't effect the semantics of the high level 
Python language. Here is a thought experiment for you:

One can imagine an implementation of Python that eschews all pointers for 
some scheme by which objects are cleverly copied and synchronized as 
needed. Such an implementation would still be Python, but it would be 
entirely pointer-free.



-- 
Steven


From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 18:23:42 2010
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:23:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
Message-ID: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
and ']' means closed interval as in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_endpoints)

[1, 3]
[2, 9]
[10,13]
[11,12]

I want to get the following merged intervals.

[1,9]
[10,13]

Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
library?


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 18:34:05 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:34:05 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.10.23.11.10@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.23.11.10@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkvflk$aie$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:02:27 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
>> Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
>> anything, namely as exemplified by
>>
>>     def foo():
>>         print( x )
>>         x = "whatever"
>>
>> The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says
>> something like "unbound". Which means the same.
> 
> Not in plain language. NullPointerException means that x is assigned to a 
> null pointer, and you have tried to follow that pointer. Unbound means 
> that x has nothing assigned to it.

No, it's the same.

    String x;
    somethingIDontRememberProbablyIo.println( x ) // Java equivalent

It's just different terminology, "NullPointerException" versus "unbound".

It's the same semantics.

Nothing substantial is changed by changing the Java message or changing the 
Python message.

The word is just a word.



> Semantically, the difference is 
> somewhat analogous to the situations:
> 
> "the president is dead, and a new president hasn't yet been appointed"
> (the office of the president is currently assigned to a dead guy)
> 
> versus
> 
> "the king has dissolved parliament and with it the office of president"
> (there is no president at all)
> 
> Now, of course we understand that in the implementation of CPython, local 
> variables are stored efficiently in slots in an array, and you can't have 
> empty slots: every address always has some bit pattern. It is very likely 
> that the CPython implementation uses a nil pointer to indicate an empty 
> slot just like Java does. The difference is that Java exposes that 
> implementation decision as part of the language specification, while 
> Python deliberately does not.

How a Python implementation implements local variables is irrelevant, except 
that since references to local variables can be copied and *live on*, be used, 
after a call, it has to work as if it uses implementation level pointers.

The notion of pointers (references) at the language level is not the same as the 
notion of pointers at the implementation level.

This is the same as the notion of integers at the Python 3.x level (unbounded 
values) is not the same as the notion of integers at the C or C# or Java level 
(depending on the Python implementation, bounded values with wrap-around or 
undefined behavior).

I.e. you're conflating two levels here.

You can perhaps more easily see that by considering an implementation of Python 
in Python, using some computed counter as object id's. It doesn't change the 
user view of copyable references. But it hides all that C pointer stuff two or 
three abstraction levels down so that it becomes meaningless to talk about it.


> It isn't an accident that the Python exception describes the *semantics* 
> of the error (x is not bound to any value) rather than the implementation 
> detail (the slot known as x has a nil pointer in it). Semantically, the 
> Python language treats the slot as empty and leaves the details of how 
> the implementation recognises empty slots as an implementation decision.
> 
> I'm just as interested by the implementation decisions made in CPython as 
> the next guy, but they don't effect the semantics of the high level 
> Python language.

Right.


> Here is a thought experiment for you:
> 
> One can imagine an implementation of Python that eschews all pointers for 
> some scheme by which objects are cleverly copied and synchronized as 
> needed. Such an implementation would still be Python, but it would be 
> entirely pointer-free.

Uhm, bad example (it wouldn't work exactly as described), but concerning what I 
think you're trying to /communicate/, that X at the Python level is not the same 
as X at the implementation level, like, 'int' at the Python 3.x level is not 
'int' in C, and like, "pointer" at the Python level is not "pointer" in C: yes.



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 10 18:35:19 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:35:19 -0000
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2208.1265701309.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7xqg5s4a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:35:51 -0000, Gary Herron <gherron at digipen.edu>  
wrote:

> spike wrote:
>> On Feb 8, 1:35 pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>>
>>> spike wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
>>>> flow chart?
>>>>       An example can be seen on the right under History:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>>>>       This would be very helpful for all users.
>>>>
>>> Huh???  What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>>>
>>> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?
>>>
>>> Gary Herron
>>>
>>
>> Do you know what "Logic" means? Guess not. Before you comedians quit
>> your day job some people are looking for information. If you have
>> nothing positive to say, go pester somewhere else.
>>
>> Grow up.
>>
>
> Why the attitude?  I wouldn't have asked for a clarification if I didn't  
> want to help.  However, I seriously have *no* idea what the OP has asked  
> for when he says "Python logic map".   Do you?  If so, then answer the  
> poor guy's question instead of whining at me.  (And I'll respectfully  
> read your answer, just to see how you interpret "Python logic map".)

Er, Gary, that *is* the OP.  He's just much better at being peeved than at  
clearly explaining what he wants.

And sorry, but I have no idea what Python logic maps or Python logic flow  
charts either, or even what a inter-network connectivity diagram might  
have to do with them.  An expansion of the original question is definitely  
in order.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 19:16:23 2010
From: wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com (dads)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:16:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sqlite3 bug?
Message-ID: <d6b16633-4d01-44bb-a64d-87772f12923a@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

When the method below is run it raises 'sqlite3.OperationalError: no
such table: dave'.
the arguments are ds = a datestamp and w = a string of digits. The
path of the db is
C:\sv_zip_test\2006\2006.db and the table is definitely named dave.
I've run the sql
in sql manager and it works. Is this a bug?


def findArchive(self, ds, w):

        year = ds.GetYear()
        if year < 2005:
            wx.MessageBox('Year out of Archive, check the date!')
            return

        year = str(year)
        archive = 'C:/sv_zip_test'
        dbfp = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(archive, year, year +
'.db'))
        if os.path.exists(dbfp):
            con = sqlite3.connect('dbfp')
            cur = con.cursor()
            #cur.execute("SELECT * FROM dave WHERE webno = ?", [w])
            cur.execute("SELECT * FROM dave")
            for r in cur:
                self.fil.AppendText(r[2] + '\n')
        else:
            wx.MessageBox('no db, %s' % dbfp)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 19:26:40 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 00:26:40 GMT
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.00.26.40@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:23:42 -0800, Peng Yu wrote:

> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('[' and
> ']' means closed interval as in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)
#Excluding_the_endpoints)

Not in the standard library. There may be third-party libraries that do 
it. Did you google "python interval"?




-- 
Steven


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Feb 10 19:38:13 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:38:13 -0600
Subject: sqlite3 bug?
In-Reply-To: <d6b16633-4d01-44bb-a64d-87772f12923a@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <d6b16633-4d01-44bb-a64d-87772f12923a@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B735175.9020704@tim.thechases.com>

dads wrote:
> When the method below is run it raises 'sqlite3.OperationalError: no
> such table: dave'.
> the arguments are ds = a datestamp and w = a string of digits. The
> path of the db is
> C:\sv_zip_test\2006\2006.db and the table is definitely named dave.
> I've run the sql
> in sql manager and it works. Is this a bug?
>
> dbfp = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(archive, year, year + '.db'))
> if os.path.exists(dbfp):
>    con = sqlite3.connect('dbfp')

did you mean

   connect(dbfp)

instead of

   connect('dbfp')

?

-tkc




From list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org  Wed Feb 10 19:44:13 2010
From: list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org (Terrence Cole)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:44:13 -0800
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
Message-ID: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>

Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) 
[GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
-0.7943282347242815
>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>> a ** b
(0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>> -abs(a ** b)
-0.7943282347242815

Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
variable version return a complex?

Cheers,
Terrence



From davidism at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 19:48:39 2010
From: davidism at gmail.com (David)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:48:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get __doc__ from main module in imported module.
Message-ID: <feec9d9b-6be7-4cc2-8602-7593d195f68f@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

I have a module toolkit.py with some functions I use often.  One of
these functions displays a usage message (__doc__).

def usage(messages=[], exit=-1):
    """Print the doc string as wells as any useful messages."""
    print(__doc__)
    for message in messages:
        print("\033[91m{}\033[0m".format(message))
    if exit >= 0:
        sys.exit(exit)

I import this module into another module, with the doc string I want
to display.  However, calling usage prints toolkit's doc string
(None), not the current module's doc string.

How can I access the top level module's doc string from toolkit?


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 10 19:50:50 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:50:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<Xns9D1BCAD3B50E1duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hkvk9a$46v$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <Xns9D1BCAD3B50E1duncanbooth at 127.0.0.1> Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> writes:

>kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

>> But to ground
>> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
>> the execution of a statement of the form:
>> 
>>   x = '%s %s' % (y, z)
>> 
>> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
>> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
>> 
>>   x = '%s' % y
>>   x = '%s' % z
>>   print y
>>   print z
>>   print y, z
>> 

>One of y or z is unicode, the other is str.

Yes, that was the root of the problem.

>1. Print the repr of each value so you can see which is which.

Thanks for pointing out repr; it's really useful when dealing with
Unicode headaches.



Thanks for all the replies!

~K


From ahleniusm at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 20:17:17 2010
From: ahleniusm at gmail.com (m_ahlenius)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:17:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: question on storing dates in a tuple
Message-ID: <ca9f49fc-0930-41cc-9632-b7eba7619630@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a weird question about tuples.  I am getting some dates from a
mysql db, using the mysqldb interface.  I am doing a standard query
with several of the fields are "datetime" format in mysql.
When I retrieve and print them in python, they look fine.

eg.
storeddate = 2010-02-07 12:03:41

But when I append these dates  into a string to write to an ascii  log
file, they come out as:

datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 7, 12, 03, 41)    (or something along those
lines).

It appears that I am dealing with some sort of date object here.   So
I am just trying to understand what's going on, and whats the best
work with such objects.

thanks

'mark


From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 20:24:30 2010
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:24:30 +1100
Subject: strange issue with C extension using Py_BuildValue
In-Reply-To: <f595b93d-3b53-4e6f-bfde-1c046a8b7d6e@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <f595b93d-3b53-4e6f-bfde-1c046a8b7d6e@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B735C4E.3040408@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2010 9:19 AM, bobicanprogram wrote:
> I'm am having "strange" problems with the code snip below.
>
> When this code is built on a 64bit Linux,  it would appear to work
> flawlessly.    When the source is rebuilt on a 32bit Linux it begins
> to crack in strange ways.   The issue seems to be associated with the
> sender field in the Py_BuildValue call.    The fact that sender is a
> pointer should mean that its value is an unsigned integer.    However,
> on the 32 bit build the failure is that the msgPtr->data value is
> "messed up".   If the format associated with the sender (a pointer)
> from "L" to "i" things work on the 32 bit side but break on the 64 bit
> side.

I expect that in a 32bit build of linux, a "long long" (the 'L' format) 
is still 64 bits.  You probably want something like:

Py_BuildValue("iNz#", ret, PyLong_FromVoidPtr(sender), &msgPtr->data, ret);

and PyLong_AsVoidPtr() for the other direction.

HTH,

Mark


From mludvig at logix.net.nz  Wed Feb 10 20:25:10 2010
From: mludvig at logix.net.nz (Michal Ludvig)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:25:10 +1300
Subject: ignoring some placeholders in string formatting
Message-ID: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>

Hi all,

when I've got a string, say:

URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"

is it possible to fill in only 'session' and leave "%(message)s" as is
when it isn't present in the values dict?

For example:
URL % { 'session' : 123 }
raises KeyError because of missing 'message' in the dict.

I could indeed replace '%(session)s' with a string replace or regexp but
that's not very elegant ;-)

Is there any way to tell the formatter to use only what's available and
ignore the rest?

Thanks

Michal


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Feb 10 20:30:52 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:30:52 -0800
Subject: question on storing dates in a tuple
In-Reply-To: <ca9f49fc-0930-41cc-9632-b7eba7619630@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <ca9f49fc-0930-41cc-9632-b7eba7619630@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002101730t60532036i3ef4a853d10c2d9f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:17 PM, m_ahlenius <ahleniusm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a weird question about tuples. ?I am getting some dates from a
> mysql db, using the mysqldb interface. ?I am doing a standard query
> with several of the fields are "datetime" format in mysql.
> When I retrieve and print them in python, they look fine.
>
> eg.
> storeddate = 2010-02-07 12:03:41
>
> But when I append these dates ?into a string to write to an ascii ?log
> file, they come out as:
>
> datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 7, 12, 03, 41) ? ?(or something along those
> lines).
>
> It appears that I am dealing with some sort of date object here. ? So
> I am just trying to understand what's going on, and whats the best
> work with such objects.

http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime

>>> from datetime import datetime
>>> now = datetime.now()
>>> print str(now)
2010-02-10 17:22:12.459277
>>> print repr(now)
datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 10, 17, 22, 12, 459277)
>>> print (now,)
(datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 10, 17, 22, 12, 459277),)

tuples use repr() on their elements when they're converted to strings,
and repr() on datetime-s uses the constructor notation as opposed to
the more normal notation used by str(). Same sort of thing happens
with strings; note the presence/lack of quotes:

>>> string = "aa"
>>> print str(string)
aa
>>> print repr(string)
'aa'
>>> print (string,)
('aa',)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 20:31:37 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:31:37 +0100
Subject: Get __doc__ from main module in imported module.
In-Reply-To: <feec9d9b-6be7-4cc2-8602-7593d195f68f@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <feec9d9b-6be7-4cc2-8602-7593d195f68f@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkvmi0$88f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* David:
> I have a module toolkit.py with some functions I use often.  One of
> these functions displays a usage message (__doc__).
> 
> def usage(messages=[], exit=-1):
>     """Print the doc string as wells as any useful messages."""
>     print(__doc__)
>     for message in messages:
>         print("\033[91m{}\033[0m".format(message))

Consider using a terminal control library such as 'curses' instead of embedding 
escape sequences directly in the text, since escape sequences vary from terminal 
to terminal.


>     if exit >= 0:
>         sys.exit(exit)
> 
> I import this module into another module, with the doc string I want
> to display.  However, calling usage prints toolkit's doc string
> (None), not the current module's doc string.

The function doesn't know where it's called from.

You have to tell it, or dynamically create a module-specific function.

One way to tell it is to pass the current module as an argument.


> How can I access the top level module's doc string from toolkit?

Like

     import __main__
     print_usage( __main__ )

with suitable definition of 'usage'.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 10 20:36:11 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:36:11 -0000
Subject: question on storing dates in a tuple
References: <ca9f49fc-0930-41cc-9632-b7eba7619630@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7xv2laia8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:17:17 -0000, m_ahlenius <ahleniusm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a weird question about tuples.  I am getting some dates from a
> mysql db, using the mysqldb interface.  I am doing a standard query
> with several of the fields are "datetime" format in mysql.
> When I retrieve and print them in python, they look fine.
>
> eg.
> storeddate = 2010-02-07 12:03:41
>
> But when I append these dates  into a string to write to an ascii  log
> file, they come out as:
>
> datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 7, 12, 03, 41)    (or something along those
> lines).
>
> It appears that I am dealing with some sort of date object here.   So
> I am just trying to understand what's going on, and whats the best
> work with such objects.

You're getting Python datetime objects:

rhodri at gnudebst:~$ python
Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec  7 2009, 18:43:55)
[GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import datetime
>>> now = datetime.datetime.today()
>>> print str(now)
2010-02-11 01:30:03.749223
>>> print repr(now)
datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 11, 1, 30, 3, 749223)


See http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime-objects for  
details of what you can do with them.  In your case, you probably just  
want to use "str()" to explicitly convert the object into a string.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 20:36:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:36:15 +0100
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
In-Reply-To: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
References: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B735F0F.6080503@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> I'm trying to right a server that needs specific information for each
> client accessing it.  The easiest way I could think of doing this is
> keeping this information based on ip address (the information is only
> valid for a short time).  I know there is no was to get the client's
> address directly and have seen a few examples of subclassing the
> SimpleXMLRPCServer like this:
>
> class RPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer):
>
> def _dispatch(self, method, params):
> """Extend dispatch, adding client info to some parameters."""
> if method in ({my list of methods I needed client address}):
> return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method,
> params+(self.client_address,))
> return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method, params);
>
>
> but to be honest I don't understand what's going on there or how to
> use it.  Would anyone be able to explain this to me?
>   
I don't know exactly what you are trying to do, but if your server 
requires informations from the client, it would be better to ask 
explicitly the client for those informations.
For instance, if a method requires te client IP address, then the IP 
address is definitely a parameter of the method.

JM


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Feb 10 20:53:44 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:53:44 -0600
Subject: ignoring some placeholders in string formatting
In-Reply-To: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>
References: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>
Message-ID: <4B736328.806@tim.thechases.com>

Michal Ludvig wrote:
> URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
> 
> is it possible to fill in only 'session' and leave "%(message)s" as is
> when it isn't present in the values dict?
> 
> For example:
> URL % { 'session' : 123 }
> raises KeyError because of missing 'message' in the dict.
> 
> I could indeed replace '%(session)s' with a string replace or regexp but
> that's not very elegant ;-)

You can use a defaultdict instead of a regular dict:

   from collections import defaultdict
   d = defaultdict(str)
   d['session'] = 123
   URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
   print URL % d

-tkc





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 21:11:38 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 02:11:38 GMT
Subject: ignoring some placeholders in string formatting
References: <mailman.2337.1265852676.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.02.11.38@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:25:10 +1300, Michal Ludvig wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> when I've got a string, say:
> 
> URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
> 
> is it possible to fill in only 'session' and leave "%(message)s" as is
> when it isn't present in the values dict?

No, but instead see string templates:

http://docs.python.org/library/string.html#template-strings



-- 
Steven


From davidism at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 21:32:28 2010
From: davidism at gmail.com (David)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:32:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get __doc__ from main module in imported module.
References: <feec9d9b-6be7-4cc2-8602-7593d195f68f@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<hkvmi0$88f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7775b9dd-7692-4f43-92b3-9c155e9c21ff@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

> > How can I access the top level module's doc string from toolkit?
>
> Like
>
> ? ? ?import __main__
> ? ? ?print_usage( __main__ )
>
> with suitable definition of 'usage'.
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

Problem solved!
Thanks for the other tips too.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 21:51:06 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:51:06 +0000
Subject: ignoring some placeholders in string formatting
In-Reply-To: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>
References: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>
Message-ID: <4B73709A.8070201@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Michal Ludvig wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> when I've got a string, say:
> 
> URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
> 
> is it possible to fill in only 'session' and leave "%(message)s" as is
> when it isn't present in the values dict?
> 
> For example:
> URL % { 'session' : 123 }
> raises KeyError because of missing 'message' in the dict.
> 
> I could indeed replace '%(session)s' with a string replace or regexp but
> that's not very elegant ;-)
> 
> Is there any way to tell the formatter to use only what's available and
> ignore the rest?
> 
You could write a class inheriting from dict which, for example, returns
"%(key)s" if the key "key" is absent:

 >>> class IgnoreDict(dict):
	def __getitem__(self, key):
		try:
			return dict.__getitem__(self, key)
		except KeyError:
			return "%%(%s)s" % key

		
 >>> d = {'session': 123}
 >>> URL = "http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
 >>> URL % d

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
     URL % d
KeyError: 'message'
 >>> URL % IgnoreDict(d)
'http://xyz/blah?session=123&message=%(message)s'


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 21:51:42 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:51:42 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkvref$9p6$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Ethan Furman:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>
>>> Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to
>>> argue with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.
>>
>> It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who
>> are attempting to teach him.  At the rate it's going, though, I don't
>> see myself buying any book he produces.
>>
>> Besides the arrogant attitude, he is wrong on so many things about
>> Python it is truly stunning.
> 
> That's bullshit. I am probably wrong about many Python things, for this
> is so no matter the language and the practictioner, but not any that you
> know about.
> 
So your accomplishments include mind-reading now, and you understand
everything that Stephen knows and does not know about? That's a
startling and, I suggest, untenable claim.
> 
>>  He seems to have confidence born of ignorance... a scary sight to see.
>>
>> In the spirit of being helpful and not just being a jerk myself:
>>
>> Alf,
>>
>> Using smileys after declaring somebody is mistaken/wrong/etc makes you
>> look bad.
>>
>> Not attempting to learn the language makes you look like an arrogant
>> idiot (case in point: passing-by-object).
>>
>> Accusing anyone and everyone that criticizes you of making ad hominem
>> (sp?) attacks makes you look like a whiner.
>>
>> After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python,
>> I might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than
>> winning presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding
>> is not worth paying for.
>>
>> Hoping-this-helps-but-not-really-expecting-it-to-ly yours,
> 
> It's yet another ad hominem attack, which means that you're painfully
> aware of supporting an untenable technical position, or supporting a
> clique of people.
> 
So now the whole thing boils down to "Alf against the world"? The
reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
she said it was very nice, but that "everyone but our Alf was out of step".

I am unsure at this stage what it would take to convince you that you
are not only wrong about several important aspects of Python but also
wrong-headed. Whenever anyone points out any aspect of your behavior
which is unacceptable or ignorant you trot out this accusation that
people are making "ad hominem attacks" as though commenting on aspects
of your personality is an attempt to undermine your arguments.

It isn't. The two are orthogonal. Your arguments are wrong *and* you are
behaving like a pratt. A change in either one of these aspects would
improve matters, but each seems as unlikely as the other.

> It also reflects rather badly on you.

Sigh. We're all out of step again, obviously.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 22:10:42 2010
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby.urner at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:10:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FWD: Lore about Division
Message-ID: <47257550-587f-4ae6-b909-655a3dff1024@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Alan:  2^(1/2)

Kirby: Also pow(2, 0.5) in Python.

Alan: Gee, I wonder if pow(2, (1/2)) also works in Python?

Kirby:

It does if you remember integer division in earlier
versions, such that one needed:

from __future__ import division

or, simply made it 1./2 or 1/2. or something, to force
a floating point answer.

In 3.x, division is natively floating, with // to force
an integer output.

[ EDITOR'S NOTE:  not quite right, may be floating type output with
integer value ]


This is Python 3.1, right out of the box:

>>> pow(2, 1/2)
1.4142135623730951

Alan:

That reminds me of FORTRAN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran_language_features#Implicit_and_explicit_typing

"Unless specified otherwise, all variables starting with letters I, J,
K, L, M
and N are default INTEGER, and all others are default REAL; other data
types
must be explicitly declared. This is known as implicit typing and is a
heritage
of early FORTRAN days."

Kirby:

I think the original intent was something like "closure" i.e.
int / int should give int, whereas float / float or float / int
or int / float should coerce float answer, and that is how it
was done.

However it was later realized, by Guido and others, that in
source code, when you see a / b, you really have no way of
knowing what's going through there, i.e. a and b might name
anything, so it gets hard to debug if the behavior is so
dependent on 1 versus 3 use cases. Better to just have a
consistent float output, no matter what. Then use // if you
want to force an integer value output, even if you input floats
to get floats back:

>>> 1.//2.
0.0
>>> 1/2
0.5
>>> 3.//2.
1.0

It's quite basic to a language, how it deals with division, so
Guido had to devise a scheme that would let the snake "shed its
skin". Already, the brand name (Python) was in his favor, as
that's what Pythons do (shed skin). A lot of basic changes piled
up, including a more complete move to a Unicode basis for source
files. If you're going to break backward compatibility, might as
well do a lot of breaking all at once.

As of this writing, we're on the other end of it, having made the
leap from 2.x to 3.x. The backward incompatibility gap has been
crossed. However, a number of important libraries and other assets
still need to bring up the rear, so a new PEP (Python Enhancement
Proposal) has been accepted, to freeze Python for awhile, in terms
of its core syntax and semantics. Give the library people some
breathing room. This seems a good plan.

[ original context:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/ ]


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 22:22:27 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:22:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6da47c86-b533-4d54-8b8a-d68feb2c4101@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

catonano <caton... at gmail.com> wrote:
> You know what I'm doing now ? I'm drawing the map of
> twisted.web.client on a paper with a pencil :-(

You're a programmer. Why are you complaining about the problem instead
of endeavouring to solve it?



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 10 22:25:00 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:25:00 -0500
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/10/2010 4:49 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> I've written a decorator for "injecting" a __function__ name into the
> function namespace, but I can't find it anywhere. I think I implemented
> it by adding a fake additional argument and replacing LOAD_GLOBAL with
> LOAD_NAME in the bytecode.

The decorator only needs to replace the defaults args tuple.
It does not even need to know the parameter name,
just that it is the only (or last) with a default .

def f(n, me=None):
     if n > 0: return n*me(n-1)
     elif n==0: return 1

f.__defaults__ = (f,) # 3.1
print(f(5))
# 120

To generalize:

def g(a,b=1,me=None):
     if a: return me(0)
     else: return 41+b

g.__defaults__ = g.__defaults__[:len(g.__defaults__)-1] + (g,)
print(g(3))
#42

Of course, user could still screw up recursion by providing another 
value for 'me'. This strikes me as about a likely (low) as a user 
screwing up recursion in a library module function by rebinding the name 
in the imported module.

Terry Jan Reedy




From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 22:36:51 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:36:51 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
>
> So now the whole thing boils down to "Alf against the world"? The
> reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
> from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
> she said it was very nice, but that "everyone but our Alf was out of step".

Considering your frequent ad hominem attacks (and this is yet one more), you 
seem to think that social coercion works well for establishing engineering 
solutions or scientific truth.

That's a misconception.

Social matters and matters of engineering or science are different things.


> I am unsure at this stage what it would take to convince you that you
> are not only wrong about several important aspects of Python but also
> wrong-headed.

You might start by starting a thread about one such thing; I'll correct you if 
you're wrong about something I know, or if you demonstrate that I'm wrong about 
something, then I'll be happy to learn something, as always.

It would be a nice change from your extreme focus on my person, if you could 
manage to discuss something technical.


> Whenever anyone points out any aspect of your behavior
> which is unacceptable or ignorant you trot out this accusation that
> people are making "ad hominem attacks" as though commenting on aspects
> of your personality is an attempt to undermine your arguments.

That's an ad hominem attack, albeit a pretty silly one.

Your behavior, with ad hominem, coercion, insinuations, misrepresentations and 
so forth the basic ingredients, is completely unacceptable to me, by the way.

It's like a bully in the schoolyard.


> It isn't. The two are orthogonal. Your arguments are wrong *and* you are
> behaving like a pratt. A change in either one of these aspects would
> improve matters, but each seems as unlikely as the other.
> 
>> It also reflects rather badly on you.
> 
> Sigh. We're all out of step again, obviously.

If you had any argument that held regarding the technical, then I think you (and 
I mean the singular you) would have tried it by now.

But instead, you engage in this bullying behavior.


Cheers,

- Alf


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb 10 22:37:06 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:37:06 +0000
Subject: A silly question on file opening
References: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.23.08@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.03.37.05.16000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:23:08 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> The solution to this is to remember that Windows accepts forward slashes 
> as well as backslashes, and always use the forward slash. So try:
> 
> open("D:/file") 
> 
> and see if that works.

The solution is not to hard-code pathnames in your source file. Read the
base directory from an environment variable, registry key, or
configuration file, and use os.path.join() to construct paths relative to
that directory.

On Unix, there are situations which require hard-coding pathnames, e.g.
the path to the package's system-wide configuration file.

But on Windows, there isn't a single directory whose name is fixed.
"Windows" isn't guaranteed to be on "C:", and the other standard
directories typically have names which vary by language. Hard-coding
"Program Files" is a quick way to guarantee that your software won't work
on systems using a language other than English.



From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 22:40:54 2010
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:40:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: expy 0.6 released
Message-ID: <155225.21818.qm@web54203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi:

EXPY (http://expy.sourceforge.net/) is an express way to extend Python. 

Why consider expy? Here are some good reasons:

(I). WYSIWYG. The expy project enables you to write your module in Python the way your extension would be (WYSIWYG), and meanwhile write your implementation in pure C. You specify your modules, functions, methods, classes, and even their documentations the usual way of writing your Python correspondences. Then provide your implementation to the functions/methods by returning a multi-line string. By such an arrangement, everything falls in its right place, and your extension code becomes easy to read and maintain. Also, the generated code is very human-friendly.

(II). You only provide minimal information to indicate your intension of how your module/class would function in Python. So your extension is largely independent from the Python extension API. As your interaction with the Python extension API is reduced to minimal (you only care about the functionality and logic), it is then possible that your module written in expy can be independent of changes in the extension API.

(III). The building and setup of your project can be automatically done with the distutil tool. In the tutorial, there are ample examples on how easily this is achieved.

(IV). Very light weight. The expy tool is surprisingly light weight dispite of its powerful ability, as it is written in pure Python. There is no parser or compiler for code generation, but rather the powerful reflexion mechanism of Python is exploited in a clever way to generate human-friendly codes. Currently, generating code in C is supported, however, the implementation is well modularized and code generation in other languages such as Java and C++ should be easy.

Currently, EXPY/CXPY works with Python 2.5, 2.6. I haven?t tested with Python 2.7 or 3.x (for 3.x, need to use the code tool first, and I am not sure if the C API for 3.x has changed much, if you happen to try it out, let me know what happened).

While there are already a couple of other projects trying to simply this task with different strategies, such as Cython, Pyrex and modulator, this project is unique and charming in its own way. All you need is the WYSIWYG Python file for your module extension, then expy takes care of everything else. What follows in this documentation is on how to extend Python in C using expy-cxpy: the module expy helps define your module, while module cxpy helps generate C codes for your defined module.

Yingjie


      


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb 10 22:48:05 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:48:05 +0000
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.03.48.04.297000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:23:42 -0800, Peng Yu wrote:

> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
> and ']' means closed interval as in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_endpoints)
> 
> [1, 3]
> [2, 9]
> [10,13]
> [11,12]
> 
> I want to get the following merged intervals.
> 
> [1,9]
> [10,13]
> 
> Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
> library?

No, but try this:

def merge(intervals):
    if not intervals:
	return []
    intervals = sorted(intervals, key = lambda x: x[0])
    result = []
    (a, b) = intervals[0]
    for (x, y) in intervals[1:]:
	if x <= b:
	    b = max(b, y)
	else:
	    result.append((a, b))
	    (a, b) = (x, y)
    result.append((a, b))
    return result



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 22:49:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:49:15 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> [snip]
>>>
>>> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
>>> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
>>> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
>>> language spec.
>>>
> [snip]
>>>
>>> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
>>> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
>>> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
>>> might not even make sense.
>>>
>>> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
>>> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
>>> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
>>> integer, in IronPython it's not.
>>>
>> You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
>> constructed definition above
> 
> No, it's not bizarre, it's the standard general language independent
> definition.
> 
*The* standard general language independent definition? As defined
where? The id() value doesn't "correspond to the pointer value", it
corresponds to the object. Why you see the need for this indirection
remains a mystery.

> And since I'm referring to an external definition (Java) it's not mine,
> either. :-)
> 
> 
>> as a pointer does not allow you to access
>> the value that is "pointed to". So I fail to see why you feel its its
>> introduction is necessary.
> 
> Python provides a number of ways to access the object pointed to.
> 
> Attribute access, indexing, and operators access the objects pointed to.

No, they access the objects. In the IronPython implementation, for
example, it has already been shown quite clearly that the id value is
simply an attribute of the object, whose values are incremented by one
for each new object.
> 
> For example,
> 
>   x = s[0]
> 
> accesses the object that s points (refers) to.

It accesses (the first element of) the object bound to the name "s".
> 
> While 'is', 'id' and assignment operate on the pointers (references)
> themselves.
> 
The 'is' operator is a simple test for equality of ids of the objects
resulting from the evaluation of two expressions. The expressions can be
literals, simple names, or any other valid Python expression. They are
*not* pointers, or references.

id() simply returns a unique value identifying a particular object. In
CPython, where objects do not migrate in memory once created, the memory
address of the object is used. In IronPython each object is assigned an
id when it is created, and that value is stored as an attribute.

> So there's one set of language features that operate on pointers, and
> one set of language features that operate on the pointed to objects.
> This is so also in Java and C#. For example.
> 
> 
>> Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
>> id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
>> expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
>> access to the referenced value.
> 
> Yes, the id does not give you access to the referenced object.
> 
Well at least we have found one aspect of Python we agree on.
> 
>> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
>> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
>> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
>> the value for which the id() value was provided.
> 
> No, I don't disagree with that.
> 
Good.

> It would be excessively inefficient to do, involving enumeration of all
> objects.
> 
> 
>> So in your world it's unnecessary for pointers to point to anything (or
>> references to refer to something)? For someone who cheerfully admits to
>> being wrong from time to time (an admirable characteristic) you are
>> certainly difficult to convince on this point. One wonders what further
>> hand-waving will follow.
> 
> He he, "further" handwaiving: you're good at unsubstantiated allegations.
> 
I am simply pointing out that to make your point you are relying on
abstractions which increasingly diverge from the reality of the Python
language. I don't think it's unreasonable to describe that as
"hand-waving". You apparently do.

> I generally strive to provide concrete examples, and you know it.
> 
Again with the mind-reading: you appear to have convinced yourself that
you are an authority on what I know.

> Anywyay, treating the first sentence as a genuine question: in the most
> likely interpretation it seems that you're conflating id's with
> pointers. An id() value uniquely represents a pointer (i.e., the
> identity of the object pointed to). It is not itself a pointer since it
> lack any pointer semantics.
> 
No, it doesn't uniquely represent a pointer, it uniquely represents an
*object*.

> For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
> Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
> anything, namely as exemplified by
> 
>    def foo():
>        print( x )
>        x = "whatever"
> 
> The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says
> something like "unbound". Which means the same.
> 
Be careful when comparing static and dynamic languages. Java, being a
static language, has no equivalent to Python's NameError and
AttributeError, which both represent situations in which no object has
been bound to a name. In those cases it isn't that the name exists and
is bound to a "null pointer", it's simply that the name doesn't exist.
So there is no "copyable reference value".

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 22:56:49 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:56:49 -0800
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
In-Reply-To: <4B735F0F.6080503@sequans.com>
References: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<4B735F0F.6080503@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002101956x1298f01euc40285c2227a0598@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant <
jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> I don't know exactly what you are trying to do, but if your server requires
> informations from the client, it would be better to ask explicitly the
> client for those informations.
> For instance, if a method requires te client IP address, then the IP
> address is definitely a parameter of the method.
>

I can't answer the OP, as I don't know the answer to his specific question--
but er, asking a client to provide one's IP address is not really a very
workable solution. There's no way to really determine your own IP address in
a reliable way.

All the usual methods (e.g., socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())) can
fail and/or be wrong in some not terribly uncommon situations. The only
reliable way to get such a piece of information is to connect to a server,
and ask that server what address you were connecting to them as. Even then,
that IP may not be the same as an IP you use to connect to say, a different
server (on a different network)

--S
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 23:03:29 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:03:29 -0500
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.11.03.48.04.297000@nowhere.com>
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.11.03.48.04.297000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <hkvvl4$h52$2@ger.gmane.org>

Nobody wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:23:42 -0800, Peng Yu wrote:
> 
>> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
>> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
>> and ']' means closed interval as in
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_endpoints)
>>
>> [1, 3]
>> [2, 9]
>> [10,13]
>> [11,12]
>>
>> I want to get the following merged intervals.
>>
>> [1,9]
>> [10,13]
>>
>> Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
>> library?
> 
> No, but try this:
> 
> def merge(intervals):
>     if not intervals:
> 	return []
>     intervals = sorted(intervals, key = lambda x: x[0])

Since Python uses lexical sorting and the intervals are lists isn't the
key specification redundant here?

>     result = []
>     (a, b) = intervals[0]
>     for (x, y) in intervals[1:]:
> 	if x <= b:
> 	    b = max(b, y)
> 	else:
> 	    result.append((a, b))
> 	    (a, b) = (x, y)
>     result.append((a, b))
>     return result
> 
regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 23:13:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:13:17 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org> <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002102013l4a5eb26ay2f684b8e1ba35256@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> *The* standard general language independent definition? As defined where?
>

Wait, what happened here?

This thread started a couple days ago; you pointed out its futility, and
even knowing better, I jumped in the deep end. When I realized the futility,
you rightly I-told-you-so'd me.

You didn't have to pick up my slack ;)

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
> word,' said Humpty ..."


--S
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 23:19:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:19:52 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl00js$kni$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>>
>> So now the whole thing boils down to "Alf against the world"? The
>> reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
>> from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
>> she said it was very nice, but that "everyone but our Alf was out of
>> step".
> 
> Considering your frequent ad hominem attacks (and this is yet one more),
> you seem to think that social coercion works well for establishing
> engineering solutions or scientific truth.
> 
> That's a misconception.
> 
So now I understand neither engineering nor science? I find that
assertion offensive, though unsurprising.

> Social matters and matters of engineering or science are different things.
> 
I am hardly ignorant of that, as you should know from my many past
writings on both aspects of Python usage. You are attempting to teach
your grandmother to suck eggs.
> 
>> I am unsure at this stage what it would take to convince you that you
>> are not only wrong about several important aspects of Python but also
>> wrong-headed.
> 
> You might start by starting a thread about one such thing; I'll correct
> you if you're wrong about something I know, or if you demonstrate that
> I'm wrong about something, then I'll be happy to learn something, as
> always.
> 
> It would be a nice change from your extreme focus on my person, if you
> could manage to discuss something technical.
> 
See below.
> 
>> Whenever anyone points out any aspect of your behavior
>> which is unacceptable or ignorant you trot out this accusation that
>> people are making "ad hominem attacks" as though commenting on aspects
>> of your personality is an attempt to undermine your arguments.
> 
> That's an ad hominem attack, albeit a pretty silly one.
> 
[facepalm]

> Your behavior, with ad hominem, coercion, insinuations,
> misrepresentations and so forth the basic ingredients, is completely
> unacceptable to me, by the way.
> 
> It's like a bully in the schoolyard.
> 
I am attempting to persuade, not to coerce.
> 
>> It isn't. The two are orthogonal. Your arguments are wrong *and* you are
>> behaving like a pratt. A change in either one of these aspects would
>> improve matters, but each seems as unlikely as the other.
>>
>>> It also reflects rather badly on you.
>>
>> Sigh. We're all out of step again, obviously.
> 
> If you had any argument that held regarding the technical, then I think
> you (and I mean the singular you) would have tried it by now.
> 
> But instead, you engage in this bullying behavior.
> 
My (technical) views on your insistence that Python's semantics require
the use of pointers to explain them is ongoing elsewhere, and remains
open for you to refute.

In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.

You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to tell people to "learn to
read", and calling their assertions "bullshit", but when we try to point
out aspects of your behavior that are either undesirable or unacceptable
 we are indulging in "ad hominem attacks".

In your terms, your accusing me of bullying behavior is an ad hominem
attack on me, so I won't bother to respond further.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 23:21:08 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:21:08 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002102013l4a5eb26ay2f684b8e1ba35256@mail.gmail.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002102013l4a5eb26ay2f684b8e1ba35256@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl00m6$kni$2@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com
> <mailto:steve at holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> 
>     *The* standard general language independent definition? As
>     defined where?
> 
>  
> Wait, what happened here? 
> 
> This thread started a couple days ago; you pointed out its futility, and
> even knowing better, I jumped in the deep end. When I realized the
> futility, you rightly I-told-you-so'd me. 
> 
> You didn't have to pick up my slack ;)
> 
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com
> <mailto:steve at holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
>     word,' said Humpty ..."

Yes, but someone on the Internet is wrong, dammit, I can't go to bed yet.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Wed Feb 10 23:27:30 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:27:30 -0600
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
In-Reply-To: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eae285401002102027x499f2f8fx8095fba0c52d3fc8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Peng Yu <pengyu.ut at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> merge intervals.
>

Not in the standard library, but this package may help:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/interval

--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com/>
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From ken at seehart.com  Wed Feb 10 23:42:25 2010
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:42:25 -0800
Subject: regex to match python string literal syntax
Message-ID: <4B738AB1.2030702@seehart.com>


I found this:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/475109/

But it is incorrect in some cases, such as:
*
"foo \" bar"*  / (incorrectly matches "foo \")/
*
'''*     /(incorrectly matches the second two single quotes)/

*" foo
  bar "*  / (incorrectly matches quote containing newline/)

Anyone know a regular expression that correctly matches python string 
literals?

Thanks in advance,
Ken

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From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 23:49:01 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:49:01 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
>>>> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
>>>> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
>>>> language spec.
>>>>
>> [snip]
>>>> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
>>>> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
>>>> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
>>>> might not even make sense.
>>>>
>>>> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
>>>> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
>>>> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
>>>> integer, in IronPython it's not.
>>>>
>>> You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
>>> constructed definition above
>> No, it's not bizarre, it's the standard general language independent
>> definition.
>>
> *The* standard general language independent definition?

Yes.


> As defined where?

For example, as I used as reference in my first posting, the Java language spec. 
  But it has nothing specifically to do with Java. It is a basic concept in 
computer science, that (most) CS students learn in their *first year*.

E.g.

<quote src="http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/106/">
A pointer stores a reference to something. Unfortunately there is no fixed term 
for the thing that the pointer points to, and across different computer 
languages there is a wide variety of things that pointers point to. We use the 
term pointee for the thing that the pointer points to, and we stick to the basic 
properties of the pointer/pointee relationship which are true in all languages. 
The term "reference" means pretty much the same thing as "pointer" -- 
"reference" implies a more high-level discussion, while "pointer" implies the 
traditional compiled language implementation of pointers as addresses. For the 
basic pointer/pointee rules covered here, the terms are effectively equivalent.
</quote>

Note that that discussion at Stanford University has several Java examples + a 
FAQ about the application of the term "pointer" to Java (plus of course that 
that's specified by the language spec), so "implies ... pointers as addresses" 
is not smart to get too focused on. Some common sense is required.

As mentioned, it is for first-year students.

But anyway, this is just terminology; if you don't like the term, then invent or 
suggest one that you're able to grok or think others will more likely grok.


> The id() value doesn't "correspond to the pointer value", it
> corresponds to the object. Why you see the need for this indirection
> remains a mystery.

The language specifies pointer semantics, that's all.

You can copy and replace references.

So, they quack like pointers, waddle like pointers and look like pointers: = 
pointers.


>> And since I'm referring to an external definition (Java) it's not mine,
>> either. :-)
>>
>>
>>> as a pointer does not allow you to access
>>> the value that is "pointed to". So I fail to see why you feel its its
>>> introduction is necessary.
>> Python provides a number of ways to access the object pointed to.
>>
>> Attribute access, indexing, and operators access the objects pointed to.
> 
> No, they access the objects.

What's the difference between "access the objects" and "access the objects"?

I'm not genuinely interested in how you came up with this amazing rebuttal, it 
was a rhetorical question only.

But I note that the only difference seems to be that you don't want the objects 
to be referenced (pointed to) by anything, removing that bit of text, which 
would make it a bit problematic to apply /any/ operation...


> In the IronPython implementation, for
> example, it has already been shown quite clearly that the id value is
> simply an attribute of the object, whose values are incremented by one
> for each new object.

Please demonstrate how that is relevant to whatever you're arguing.


>> For example,
>>
>>   x = s[0]
>>
>> accesses the object that s points (refers) to.
> 
> It accesses (the first element of) the object bound to the name "s".

Yes.


>> While 'is', 'id' and assignment operate on the pointers (references)
>> themselves.
>>
> The 'is' operator is a simple test for equality of ids of the objects
> resulting from the evaluation of two expressions. The expressions can be
> literals, simple names, or any other valid Python expression.

Yes.


> They are *not* pointers, or references.

Simple demonstration that they're references (have reference semantics):

   s = ["A"]
   t = s             # Copies the reference.
   t[0] = "B"        # Changes the referenced object via the reference copy.
   print( s )        # Inspects object (now changed) via original reference.

It's pretty hard to argue seriously against this without committing a number of 
fallacies.

Denial is of course easy, and you've done that, but it's at best just childish.


> id() simply returns a unique value identifying a particular object. In
> CPython, where objects do not migrate in memory once created, the memory
> address of the object is used. In IronPython each object is assigned an
> id when it is created, and that value is stored as an attribute.

Yes.


>> So there's one set of language features that operate on pointers, and
>> one set of language features that operate on the pointed to objects.
>> This is so also in Java and C#. For example.
>>
>>> Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
>>> id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
>>> expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
>>> access to the referenced value.
>> Yes, the id does not give you access to the referenced object.
>>
> Well at least we have found one aspect of Python we agree on.

Oh, good. :-)


>>> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
>>> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
>>> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
>>> the value for which the id() value was provided.
>> No, I don't disagree with that.
>>
> Good.
> 
>> It would be excessively inefficient to do, involving enumeration of all
>> objects.
>>
>>
>>> So in your world it's unnecessary for pointers to point to anything (or
>>> references to refer to something)? For someone who cheerfully admits to
>>> being wrong from time to time (an admirable characteristic) you are
>>> certainly difficult to convince on this point. One wonders what further
>>> hand-waving will follow.
>> He he, "further" handwaiving: you're good at unsubstantiated allegations.
>>
> I am simply pointing out that to make your point you are relying on
> abstractions which increasingly diverge from the reality of the Python
> language.

On the contrary, the closest abstraction to reference semantics is reference 
semantics.

No special cases needed.

No extraneous conceptual ballast.



> I don't think it's unreasonable to describe that as
> "hand-waving". You apparently do.

Yes and no.

Regarding what you write now, that is regarding what people (who don't have set 
positions) find easier to grasp: discussing that is necessarily handwaiving, but 
to the same degree no matter which side you argue. Unless one applies 
statistics. So by your own argument you're handwaiving.

On the other hand, regarding what you wrote earlier you implied a history of 
handwaiving from me.

You would be unable to give examples of that.

But above you present an argument about IronPython which suggest some 
unspecified contradiction with something unspecified (to get to the implied 
contradiction a reader would have to form a picture that would be 
misrepresenting me), and *that* is an example of handwaiving, diversion and 
misrepresentation  --  which I didn't have to look far to find...


>> I generally strive to provide concrete examples, and you know it.
>>
> Again with the mind-reading: you appear to have convinced yourself that
> you are an authority on what I know.

What on Earth are you babbling about now? I say what I do. You therefore think 
I'm reading your mind? Hello. Get a grip.


>> Anywyay, treating the first sentence as a genuine question: in the most
>> likely interpretation it seems that you're conflating id's with
>> pointers. An id() value uniquely represents a pointer (i.e., the
>> identity of the object pointed to). It is not itself a pointer since it
>> lack any pointer semantics.
>>
> No, it doesn't uniquely represent a pointer,

Denial is just stupid, sorry.


> it uniquely represents an *object*.

Yes, and that implies that it also uniquely represents a pointer to the object. 
If nothing else you could take the address of the object and have a direct 
correspondence (one-to-one mapping) with the id value, contradicting your 
statement. But that's just one concrete example, it doesn't capture the general 
idea of an abstract pointer: it only shows that your statement is a 
self-contradiction, i.e., fallacious.


>> For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
>> Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
>> anything, namely as exemplified by
>>
>>    def foo():
>>        print( x )
>>        x = "whatever"
>>
>> The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says
>> something like "unbound". Which means the same.
>>
> Be careful when comparing static and dynamic languages. Java, being a
> static language, has no equivalent to Python's NameError and
> AttributeError, which both represent situations in which no object has
> been bound to a name. In those cases it isn't that the name exists and
> is bound to a "null pointer", it's simply that the name doesn't exist.
> So there is no "copyable reference value".

Yes, you have point there (the first so far, I must add, since this is at the 
end of the article!). And it is a good but subtle point that I was a bit 
hesitant to mention. But since you've let that cat out of ze bag, Java and 
Python differ in what dangerous name/pointer features they offer: IIRC Java 
allows a name to become "unbound" by assigning nullpointer, i.e. an extra path 
to that dangerous nullpointer/unbound state, while Python allows a name to 
become non-existent via del, i.e. an extra path to that dangerous non-existence.

Still, the unbound/nullpointer state is the same, with the same effect.

And that's quite suggestive.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From dinov at microsoft.com  Wed Feb 10 23:58:33 2010
From: dinov at microsoft.com (Dino Viehland)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:58:33 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org> <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1A472770E042064698CB5ADC83A12ACD392D9ED8@TK5EX14MBXC116.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Steve wrote:
> id() simply returns a unique value identifying a particular object. In
> CPython, where objects do not migrate in memory once created, the
> memory
> address of the object is used. In IronPython each object is assigned an
> id when it is created, and that value is stored as an attribute.

Just a point of clarification: In IronPython ids are lazily assigned upon
a call to the id().  They're actually fairly expensive to create because 
the ids need to be maintained by a dictionary which uses weak references.

> >> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
> >> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
> >> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and
> >> returns the value for which the id() value was provided.

Just for fun this works in IronPython 2.6:

>>> import clr
>>> clr.AddReference('Microsoft.Dynamic')
>>> from Microsoft.Scripting.Runtime import IdDispenser
>>> x = object()
>>> id(x)
43
>>> IdDispenser.GetObject(43)
<object object at 0x000000000000002B>
>>> IdDispenser.GetObject(43) is x
True

Please, please, no one ever use this code!

I do generally agree with the sentiment that id is object identity and in
way related to pointers though.



From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 00:01:54 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:01:54 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> So now the whole thing boils down to "Alf against the world"? The
>>> reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
>>> from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
>>> she said it was very nice, but that "everyone but our Alf was out of
>>> step".
>> Considering your frequent ad hominem attacks (and this is yet one more),
>> you seem to think that social coercion works well for establishing
>> engineering solutions or scientific truth.
>>
>> That's a misconception.
>>
> So now I understand neither engineering nor science? I find that
> assertion offensive, though unsurprising.
> 
>> Social matters and matters of engineering or science are different things.
>>
> I am hardly ignorant of that, as you should know from my many past
> writings on both aspects of Python usage. You are attempting to teach
> your grandmother to suck eggs.
>>> I am unsure at this stage what it would take to convince you that you
>>> are not only wrong about several important aspects of Python but also
>>> wrong-headed.
>> You might start by starting a thread about one such thing; I'll correct
>> you if you're wrong about something I know, or if you demonstrate that
>> I'm wrong about something, then I'll be happy to learn something, as
>> always.
>>
>> It would be a nice change from your extreme focus on my person, if you
>> could manage to discuss something technical.
>>
> See below.
>>> Whenever anyone points out any aspect of your behavior
>>> which is unacceptable or ignorant you trot out this accusation that
>>> people are making "ad hominem attacks" as though commenting on aspects
>>> of your personality is an attempt to undermine your arguments.
>> That's an ad hominem attack, albeit a pretty silly one.
>>
> [facepalm]
> 
>> Your behavior, with ad hominem, coercion, insinuations,
>> misrepresentations and so forth the basic ingredients, is completely
>> unacceptable to me, by the way.
>>
>> It's like a bully in the schoolyard.
>>
> I am attempting to persuade, not to coerce.
>>> It isn't. The two are orthogonal. Your arguments are wrong *and* you are
>>> behaving like a pratt. A change in either one of these aspects would
>>> improve matters, but each seems as unlikely as the other.
>>>
>>>> It also reflects rather badly on you.
>>> Sigh. We're all out of step again, obviously.
>> If you had any argument that held regarding the technical, then I think
>> you (and I mean the singular you) would have tried it by now.
>>
>> But instead, you engage in this bullying behavior.
>>
> My (technical) views on your insistence that Python's semantics require
> the use of pointers to explain them is ongoing elsewhere, and remains
> open for you to refute.
> 
> In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
> to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
> hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.
> 
> You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to tell people to "learn to
> read",

I have not used that expression.

However I have suggest and emphasized that it might help to *read* whatever one 
quotes, when the quoted material (such as one paragraph) has not been read.

Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply that the 
person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read. Telling a person to 
read something that's obviously not been read is quite another matter. So, you 
are misrepresenting  --  again  --  and in a quite revealing way, sorry.


> and calling their assertions "bullshit",

Yes, in this group, but only for personal attacks.

Such as yours.

I think I've shown extreme restraint in the face of bullying from you and some 
followers, and calling the insinuations bullshit is quite mild.


> but when we try to point
> out aspects of your behavior that are either undesirable or unacceptable
> we are indulging in "ad hominem attacks".

That is an untrue and extremely misleading description of what you've been doing.


> In your terms, your accusing me of bullying behavior is an ad hominem
> attack on me, so I won't bother to respond further.

You're complaining about the person you're hitting saying clearly what you did.

If some truthful words about bullying can get you straight I'm for it.

Even if it means getting down to your level (and yes, I did).


Cheers,

- Alf


From mark0978 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 00:24:34 2010
From: mark0978 at gmail.com (Mark Jones)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:24:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for 
	windows
References: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1265760917.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<b61ba2f6-46bb-42a4-94b7-fb42b0a79494@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e4a07284-c0c3-4cae-9e34-4df12b4f1166@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Turns out there is an tools/msi directory and in there is python code
to help build the MSI from the tree you built. Only problem is you
can't use it without having python and PythonWin installed. So I
grabbed 2.6.4 python and pythonwin and installed them.

It uses COM objects and the CabSDK from MS to build the MSI file. And
then it has a couple of "Issues" that I had to resolve. First you need
a VS2008 shell so you can

nmake -f msisupport.mak

then you need to grab a copy of TIX (I didn't have to build it, just
have it in place fore the license.terms file (probably could have just
removed that list member for the same effect, but I was worried about
something else being needed down below)

("Tcl", "tcl8*", "license.terms"), ("Tk", "tk8*", "license.terms"),
("Tix", "Tix-*", "license.terms")):

had to be changed to:

("Tcl", "tcl-8*", "license.terms"), ("Tk", "tk-8*", "license.terms"),
("Tix", "Tix*", "license.terms")):

because the package names have evidently changed in the not to distant
past?

After that, I ran c:\python26\python msi.py and then it griped about
the python264.chm being missing, so instead of trying to build it, I
grabbed the one from the copy of python I had to install in order to
build python and dumped it in the expected location.

Oh yea, I also had to go to the PC directory and

nmake -f icons.mak

This gave me a runnable msi file to install python (which was already
installed, so that I could build the msi file to install my own
version). Oh well, at least it is built now. Whew!


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb 11 00:35:08 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:35:08 -0300
Subject: SocketServer error: AttributeError:  instance has no __call__
	method
References: <bc9adc7c-e24e-4229-aabd-3c6c10fdfa48@v36g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7x64uj2x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:13:58 -0300, Jordan Apgar <twistedphrame at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> I'm having some issues connecting to my Socket Server,  I get this
> traceback on the sever side:
> ----------------------------------------
> Exception happened during processing of request from ('127.0.0.1',
> 56404)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 320, in
> finish_request
>     self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
> AttributeError: Negotiator instance has no __call__ method
> ----------------------------------------


> class ServerNegotiator:
>     def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
>         negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
>         self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)

You have to pass the *class* of the RequestHandler you want, not an  
instance. TCPServer will create an instance of such class for every  
request handled. So you can't (or shouldn't) save permanent info in the  
handler, like rsa_key. Store all those parameters in the server. From the  
handler, you may access the server using its .server attribute.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb 11 00:37:17 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:37:17 -0300
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
References: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7x68fq7x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:19:50 -0300, Jordan Apgar <twistedphrame at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> I'm trying to right a server that needs specific information for each
> client accessing it.  The easiest way I could think of doing this is
> keeping this information based on ip address (the information is only
> valid for a short time).  I know there is no was to get the client's
> address directly and have seen a few examples of subclassing the
> SimpleXMLRPCServer like this:
>
> class RPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer):
>
> def _dispatch(self, method, params):
> """Extend dispatch, adding client info to some parameters."""
> if method in ({my list of methods I needed client address}):
> return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method,
> params+(self.client_address,))
> return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method, params);
>
>
> but to be honest I don't understand what's going on there or how to
> use it.  Would anyone be able to explain this to me?

Do you want an explanation of what the above code does?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 11 00:46:27 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 05:46:27 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:56:36 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> 
>>> "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
>>> level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language
>>> spec.
>> 
>> Python doesn't have "copyable reference values" in the Python level. It
>> has objects.
> 
> Given
> 
>    s = [1]
>    t = s         # Copies reference.
>    t[0] = 2      # Changes referenced object via copied reference.
>    print( s )    # Checks the object via the original reference.
> 
> your argument that the copied reference does not exist, is just silly.
> 
> And you know it.

You keep making a habit of pretending that you know what other people are 
thinking, accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from 
yours, and of deliberately making silly arguments that the poster (in 
this case, me) knows is untrue. It is an obnoxious, trolling habit. 
Please stop it.

I don't "know" it is a silly argument, because I don't accept your 
givens. Specifically:

s = [1]
t = s         # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
t[0] = 2      # Changes the object bound to the name t
print(s)      # Checks the object via the original name.

Notice that your version describes what happens according to some 
implementation, below the level of the Python virtual machine. My version 
describes what happens at the level of high-level Python code, which is 
the defined semantics of the language. It makes no assumptions about the 
implementation, completely unlike yours which is entirely implementation-
specific. My description is equally valid whether Python is being 
executed by the CPython virtual machine on an Intel-compatible processor, 
or hand-simulated with pencil and paper, or something completely 
different. Yours is not.

I describe the high-level language, you describe one implementation. 
Neither view is *wrong*, per se, but one describes the semantics of the 
language while the other describes the implementation.

The first paragraph of the Python docs about the execution model says:

"NAMES REFER TO OBJECTS [emphasis added]. Names are introduced by name 
binding operations. Each occurrence of a name in the program text refers 
to the binding of that name established in the innermost function block 
containing the use."

http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html

Apart from the use of the generic English term "refers to" (and similar), 
you will find *nothing* about pointers in this. That's because pointers 
are not a part of the high-level behaviour of Python.

See also:

http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#assignment-statements

where you will also not find the word "pointer" used to describe any high-
level Python feature, or used in relation to assignment.


-- 
Steven


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 01:10:53 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:10:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <81e93706-0e5f-429c-8514-f079c3910289@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply that the
> person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.

Ad hominem.

> So, you
> are misrepresenting ?-- ?again ?-- ?and in a quite revealing way, sorry.

Ad hominem.

> Yes, in this group, but only for personal attacks. Such as yours.

Ad hominem.

> I think I've shown extreme restraint in the face of bullying from you and some
> followers, and calling the insinuations bullshit is quite mild.

Ad hominem.

> That is an untrue and extremely misleading description of what you've been doing.

Ad hominem.

> Even if it means getting down to your level (and yes, I did).

Ad hominem.

So the real lesson you're trying to impart is to do as you say and not
as you do?


From ken at seehart.com  Thu Feb 11 01:28:43 2010
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:28:43 -0800
Subject: regex to match python string literal syntax
In-Reply-To: <4B738AB1.2030702@seehart.com>
References: <4B738AB1.2030702@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <4B73A39B.5090503@seehart.com>

Found this in pypy!

# Match any flavor of string; /*the terminating quote is optional*/
# so that we're robust in the face of incomplete program text.

_match_stringre = re.compile(r"""
    \""" [^"\\]* (?:
                     (?: \\. | "(?!"") )
                     [^"\\]*
                 )*
    (?: \""" )?

|   " [^"\\\n]* (?: \\. [^"\\\n]* )* "?

|   ''' [^'\\]* (?:
                   (?: \\. | '(?!'') )
                   [^'\\]*
                )*
    (?: ''' )?

|   ' [^'\\\n]* (?: \\. [^'\\\n]* )* '?
""", re.VERBOSE | re.DOTALL).match

Problem solved.

Ken


Ken Seehart wrote:
>
> I found this:
>    http://code.activestate.com/recipes/475109/
>
> But it is incorrect in some cases, such as:
> *
> "foo \" bar"*  / (incorrectly matches "foo \")/
> *
> '''*     /(incorrectly matches the second two single quotes)/
>
> *" foo
>   bar "*  / (incorrectly matches quote containing newline/)
>
> Anyone know a regular expression that correctly matches python string 
> literals?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ken
>

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From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 01:37:35 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:37:35 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:56:36 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> * Steven D'Aprano:
>>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>>
>>>> "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
>>>> level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language
>>>> spec.
>>> Python doesn't have "copyable reference values" in the Python level. It
>>> has objects.
>> Given
>>
>>    s = [1]
>>    t = s         # Copies reference.
>>    t[0] = 2      # Changes referenced object via copied reference.
>>    print( s )    # Checks the object via the original reference.
>>
>> your argument that the copied reference does not exist, is just silly.
>>
>> And you know it.
> 
> You keep making a habit of pretending that you know what other people are 
> thinking,

No, that is untrue, I do neither know nor pretend to know what other people are 
thinking.

But I do know that you know some elementary things, such as understanding what 
the code above does.

I do not by that mean that you don't also understand far more advanced things 
:-), just that I'm fairly ~100% sure that you do understand the code above.


> accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from 
> yours,

That is untrue.


[snip]
> I don't "know" it is a silly argument, because I don't accept your 
> givens. Specifically:
> 
> s = [1]
> t = s         # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
> t[0] = 2      # Changes the object bound to the name t
> print(s)      # Checks the object via the original name.
> 
> Notice that your version describes what happens according to some 
> implementation, below the level of the Python virtual machine.

Consider just the

   assert( t is not s )

   t = s

Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?

If it doesn't, then it has no effect whatsoever.

But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.

You describe that memory change as that t has been "bound" to the same object as s.

By which you mean that henceforth, until the next assignment to t, t *refers* to 
the same object as s.

That explanation in terms of "refers" is necessary. No beginner knows what it 
means that a name is "bound" to something means, until it's been explained. The 
explanation is necessarily in terms of "refers to".

When something A refers to something B, then by definition A is a *reference* to B.

Anyway, you have changed which object t refers to, by changing memory contents 
so that t now refers to the same object as s.

Effectively, by making t refer to the same object as s, by all measures of 
reference equality (which is just, do they refer to same object?) you have 
*copied* the s reference to t.

For if you haven't, then t necessarily refers to something else.

So the memory change, whatever it was, involved an effective copying of a 
reference, in memory.

And that copying of a reference, in memory, implies a copyable reference.

Going the other way, copying of references very directly implies binding. No 
need for the long logic chain above. So copying of references is in my view much 
more powerful as a model of what goes on, yielding immediate conclusions, 
avoiding special case rules, and being very suitable for visualization.

Not the least, it's more powerful because in order to explain "bind" you need 
"refer" and "reference", so the "bind" view involves more, violating Occam's.

But given the explanation in terms of "refer" and "reference" you do not need 
"bind", so it's less, it's simpler  --  and it's easier to visualize.


   ---


Anyway, there is more practical way to look at it.

Say that you're going to implement a linked list.

The functionality required for that is exactly that of general pointers. But a 
linked list can be implemented in Python, using names (attributes) as pointers. 
And since that works, without having to do anything extra in order to 
"implement" pointers in terms of names, but just using those names directly, 
those names necessarily have the functionality of general pointers.


> My version 
> describes what happens at the level of high-level Python code, which is 
> the defined semantics of the language. It makes no assumptions about the 
> implementation, completely unlike yours which is entirely implementation-
> specific. My description is equally valid whether Python is being 
> executed by the CPython virtual machine on an Intel-compatible processor, 
> or hand-simulated with pencil and paper, or something completely 
> different. Yours is not.
> 
> I describe the high-level language, you describe one implementation. 
> Neither view is *wrong*, per se, but one describes the semantics of the 
> language while the other describes the implementation.
> 
> The first paragraph of the Python docs about the execution model says:
> 
> "NAMES REFER TO OBJECTS [emphasis added]. Names are introduced by name 
> binding operations. Each occurrence of a name in the program text refers 
> to the binding of that name established in the innermost function block 
> containing the use."
> 
> http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html
> 
> Apart from the use of the generic English term "refers to" (and similar), 
> you will find *nothing* about pointers in this. That's because pointers 
> are not a part of the high-level behaviour of Python.

Well, apart from... As you say.


> See also:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#assignment-statements
> 
> where you will also not find the word "pointer" used to describe any high-
> level Python feature, or used in relation to assignment.

Yes, that's right.

It does not mean that such a description is invalid.

It only means that common sense needs to be applied, and that the urge to 
misinterpret needs to be suppressed. I don't think those are problems for 
novices. But still a better term than "pointer" would be nice, and I guess 
"reference" is it, as suggested by the course material I linked to.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 01:46:46 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:46:46 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <81e93706-0e5f-429c-8514-f079c3910289@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<81e93706-0e5f-429c-8514-f079c3910289@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl090t$hul$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply that the
>> person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> So, you
>> are misrepresenting  --  again  --  and in a quite revealing way, sorry.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> Yes, in this group, but only for personal attacks. Such as yours.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> I think I've shown extreme restraint in the face of bullying from you and some
>> followers, and calling the insinuations bullshit is quite mild.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> That is an untrue and extremely misleading description of what you've been doing.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> Even if it means getting down to your level (and yes, I did).
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
> So the real lesson you're trying to impart is to do as you say and not
> as you do?

Well, I don't think any of you guys would hold out as long as I did.

I think it's Not Nice to get personal.

But there's a limit, one can't just ignore punches every day, and you're right, 
the above from me was ad hominem all the way (well, except that it doesn't 
concern any technical discussion, and that I'm not injecting noise but 
responding to such and trying to reduce it in the future, but still).


Cheers,

- Alf



From ivlenin at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 02:38:32 2010
From: ivlenin at gmail.com (I V)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 08:38:32 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b73b3f8$1@news.x-privat.org>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:37:35 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> s = [1]
>> t = s         # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
>> t[0] = 2      # Changes the object bound to the name t print(s)      #
>> Checks the object via the original name.
>> 
>> Notice that your version describes what happens according to some
>> implementation, below the level of the Python virtual machine.
> 
> Consider just the
> 
>    assert( t is not s )
> 
>    t = s
> 
> Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?
> 
> If it doesn't, then it has no effect whatsoever.
> 
> But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.

I don't think your disagreeing with Steven here - by talking about "the 
computers memory," it's clear that you are talking about the details of 
an implementation of python, not the semantics of python itself. Unless, 
of course, you are under the misapprehension that "the computer's memory" 
is relevant to the python language, rather than the particular 
implementation. Python itself has nothing to do with "computers" or 
"memory"; these are mere implementation details.


From wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 02:39:36 2010
From: wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com (wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:39:36 +0000
Subject: sqlite3 bug?
In-Reply-To: <4B735175.9020704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <001636498db3b55769047f4e4011@google.com>

Thank you

It just highlights that when your tired things can easily be missed and
maybe you should leave things until the morning to view things with
fresh eyes =)
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From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 11 02:59:38 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:59:38 +1300
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> A much, much stronger version of the
> principles behind Vigen?re was used in the German Enigma machine.
> Because the algorithm was still not good enought some clever guy called
> Turing and his team was able to crack the enigma.

Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that
the Germans made some blunders in the way they used the
Enigma that seriously compromised its security. There
was reportedly a branch of the German forces that used
their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes, and
the British never managed to crack any of their messages.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 11 03:01:35 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:01:35 +1300
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2289.1265800001.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2289.1265800001.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7thr76FeqlU2@mid.individual.net>

Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> It also turned out that everybody mostly writes his/her
> own obfuscation routine.

Hey, it gives you the additional advantage of obfuscation
by obscurity!

-- 
Greg


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 03:09:04 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:09:04 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b73b3f8$1@news.x-privat.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b73b3f8$1@news.x-privat.org>
Message-ID: <hl0dr7$l5u$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* I V:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:37:35 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steven D'Aprano:
>>> s = [1]
>>> t = s         # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
>>> t[0] = 2      # Changes the object bound to the name t print(s)      #
>>> Checks the object via the original name.
>>>
>>> Notice that your version describes what happens according to some
>>> implementation, below the level of the Python virtual machine.
>> Consider just the
>>
>>    assert( t is not s )
>>
>>    t = s
>>
>> Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?
>>
>> If it doesn't, then it has no effect whatsoever.
>>
>> But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.
> 
> I don't think your disagreeing with Steven here - by talking about "the 
> computers memory," it's clear that you are talking about the details of 
> an implementation of python, not the semantics of python itself. Unless, 
> of course, you are under the misapprehension that "the computer's memory" 
> is relevant to the python language, rather than the particular 
> implementation. Python itself has nothing to do with "computers" or 
> "memory"; these are mere implementation details.

You know, the programming language that doesn't need computers: Python.

:-)



Cheers,

- Alf (not sure how to read your posting, but it's funny anyhow)


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Feb 11 03:56:32 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:56:32 +0000
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for
	windows
In-Reply-To: <e4a07284-c0c3-4cae-9e34-4df12b4f1166@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2263.1265760917.28905.python-list@python.org>	<b61ba2f6-46bb-42a4-94b7-fb42b0a79494@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<e4a07284-c0c3-4cae-9e34-4df12b4f1166@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B73C640.1000500@timgolden.me.uk>

On 11/02/2010 05:24, Mark Jones wrote:
[... problems building from tools/msi ...]

I sympathise. I went through similar hoops last year, merely to
be able to do it. I think I'm right in saying that very few
people are bothered enough to package their own MSI on windows
because the (probably very few) developers who have a need to
run bleeding-edge Python, eg to test out patches or whatever,
can simply run from <checkout>\pcbuild\python_d.exe or whatever.
And everyone else simply runs the MSI provided on python.org.

I'm fairly sure I'm right in saying that it's Martin von L
who builds the MSIs for python.org and if I haven't done it
before I'd like to offer him a vote of thanks for having done
and for continuing to do this. The tools/msi is used by him
to do those builds and does make certain assumptions. One,
in particular, is that you have an *existing* copy of some
recent Python running somewhere. (I use python25, I think).
Altho' it might be nice to be able to bootstrap, in practice
it isn't a problem.

For interest's sake I offer my make-snapshots area which I
use to build trunk or branches for Python 2.x / 3.x when I
have the change:

   http://svn.tjg.org.uk/make-snapshots

Feel free to look at least to see what I'm doing. I think I
didn't bother with Tix (I don't use Tkinter) so thanks for
providing some input on that; I may well go back and retrofit.

TJG


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Feb 11 04:10:49 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:10:49 +0000
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
In-Reply-To: <96353030-0e0c-4035-ae4a-5ab475251d4b@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>	<m2zl3i3xvf.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<96353030-0e0c-4035-ae4a-5ab475251d4b@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B73C999.90206@timgolden.me.uk>

On 10/02/2010 22:55, T wrote:
> Great suggestions once again - I did verify that it was at least
> running the plink.exe binary when under LocalSystem by having the
> service run "plink.exe>  C:\plinkoutput.txt" - this worked fine.  And,
> as I mentioned, it's now working just fine when running under a
> regular admin account.  So, I think that's going to be my solution to
> avoid any further issues.  My best guess at this point (as you
> mentioned), is that plink.exe is doing _something_ network-related
> that LocalSystem doesn't have the privileges to do - what exactly it
> is, I have no idea.  I may play around with it some more later, but
> running the service under an admin account should be a perfectly
> acceptable solution.
>
> Also, I will be writing other Python apps that the service will be
> executing - so it goes without saying that I'll be including a log to
> file option :)  Thanks again for all your guys' help!

I'm not sure if this has been said already, but a reasonably common
approach to services is to create a user specifically for the
service and grant it exactly the privs / perms it needs (once you
work out what they are). You then assign it a generated password,
eg a GUID which you don't even try to remember: simply cut-and-paste
it in. Then create the service to run under that user.

That way you don't have the service running under
some local Administrator account with the associated risk
of its being subverted and gaining more control than you
want. Nor do you have it running as a real user whose
password might change for any reason, leaving you with
a service which won't start up.

I don't remember at this moment whether such a user's profile
is automatically loaded in the process when the service starts
or whether you have to do the LoadUserProfile thing.

TJG


From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Feb 11 04:46:16 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:46:16 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>

Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that
> the Germans made some blunders in the way they used the
> Enigma that seriously compromised its security. There
> was reportedly a branch of the German forces that used
> their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes, and
> the British never managed to crack any of their messages.

IIRC some versions of the Enigma weren't cracked because they used a
different setup and different daily keys.

The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years
before WW2 started. Some flaws in the instructions and a known plain
text attack made the crack of the Enigma practical. It took the British
scientists merely hours rather than days or weeks to decipher the daily
key with some smart tricks. For example they started fake attacks on
ships or cities just to have the names in some encrypted reports.


From aabelyakov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 04:57:00 2010
From: aabelyakov at gmail.com (aabelyakov)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:57:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unicode strings
Message-ID: <9c47f29c-4f98-442c-ba60-ec1d68f401f8@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Excellent! But what about the unicode


From aabelyakov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 05:00:05 2010
From: aabelyakov at gmail.com (aabelyakov)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:00:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unicode strings
Message-ID: <b1c90283-a156-4b34-95df-541d01e26ff5@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

Excellent! But what about the unicode?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 11 06:32:18 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:32:18 -0800
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the German
> forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes,
> and the British never managed to crack any of their messages.

I think you are thinking of the Kriegsmarine (naval) Enigma.  Yes they
were more careful with procedures, but the machine was also harder to
crack because it had four rotors instead of three.  IIRC, the Brits were
eventually (1942?) able to capture one by shooting up a German submarine
and boarding it to get the machine while the sub was sinking; a British
sailor wasn't able to get out in time and drowned during that operation.
Getting the rotor settings off the captured unit (they may have had to
do it more than once) was enough to get a foothold into the code.  My
memory is hazy on this by now so I may have some parts wrong, but David
Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma" tells the story (I read it many years
ago).  A fictionalized version appears in Neil Stephenson's novel
"Cryptonomicon".


From zasaconsulting at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 06:44:55 2010
From: zasaconsulting at gmail.com (Alexzive)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:44:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to improve this cycle (extracting data from structured array)?
Message-ID: <6ab43302-8700-495e-a2f7-c52282c62301@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hello guys,

I am just wondering if there is a quick way to improve this algorithm
[N is a structured array which hold info about the nodes n of a finite
element mesh, and n is about 300.000). I need to extract info from N
and put it in to a 3*n matrix NN which I reshape then with numpy. I
think to "append" is quite unefficient:

***********************************************************
N = odb.rootAssembly.instances['PART-1-1'].nodes


NN=[]

B=[0,0,0]
 #auxsiliar vector
for i in range(len(N)):

    B[0] = N[i].label

    B[1] = N[i].coordinates[0]

    B[2] = N[i].coordinates[1]

    NN = append(NN,B)


NN=NN.reshape(-1,3)

****************************************************
Many Thanks in advance!
Alex


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 11 07:08:31 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:08:31 -0600
Subject: how to improve this cycle (extracting data from structured array)?
In-Reply-To: <6ab43302-8700-495e-a2f7-c52282c62301@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ab43302-8700-495e-a2f7-c52282c62301@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B73F33F.9060205@tim.thechases.com>

Alexzive wrote:
> I am just wondering if there is a quick way to improve this algorithm
> [N is a structured array which hold info about the nodes n of a finite
> element mesh, and n is about 300.000). I need to extract info from N
> and put it in to a 3*n matrix NN which I reshape then with numpy. I
> think to "append" is quite unefficient:
> 
> ***********************************************************
> N = odb.rootAssembly.instances['PART-1-1'].nodes
> 
> NN=[]
> 
> B=[0,0,0]
>  #auxsiliar vector
> for i in range(len(N)):
>     B[0] = N[i].label
>     B[1] = N[i].coordinates[0]
>     B[2] = N[i].coordinates[1]
>     NN = append(NN,B)

Usually this would be written with a list-comprehension, 
something like

   nn = [(x.label, x.coordinates[0], x.coordinates[1])
         for x in N]

or if you really need lists-of-lists instead of lists-of-tuples:

   nn = [[x.label, x.coordinates[0], x.coordinates[1]]
         for x in N]

-tkc




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 11 07:25:47 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:25:47 +0100
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl0svu$jsm$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Terrence Cole wrote:

> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
> 
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
> 
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

Operator precedence.

>>> -0.1**0.1
-0.7943282347242815
>>> (-0.1)**0.1
(0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)

Quoting http://docs.python.org/3.1/reference/expressions.html:

"""
The power operator binds more tightly than unary operators on its left; it 
binds less tightly than unary operators on its right.
"""

Peter


From andreengels at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:26:56 2010
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:26:56 +0100
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <6faf39c91002110426j2f41d7ebjb1775e6ee6968386@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Terrence Cole
<list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb ?3 2010, 13:36:47)
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
>
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

It's an issue of precedence of operators:

-0.1 ** 0.1

is interpreted as

-(0.1 ** 0.1)

and not as

(-0.1) ** 0.1






-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:27:14 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5765d0b-1118-425e-94a1-a2dbbf32171a@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 12:44?am, Terrence Cole <list-
s... at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?

> >>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815

Here you're computing -(0.1 ** 0.1).  The exponentiation operator
binds more strongly than the negation operator.

> >>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
> >>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)

Here you're computing (-0.1) ** 0.1.

--
Mark


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:31:54 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:01:54 +0530
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>

Do you really believe that -0.1 ** 0.1 is a valid computational problem ?
Can you raise a negative number to a fractional power ?
Output on my console (python 2.6)

>>> -.1 ** .1
-0.79432823472428149
>>> a,b = -.1,.1
>>> a**b
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>>> -abs(a**b)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

There is a little issue here that '>>> -.1 ** .1' should give you error
message. That is it.


On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Terrence Cole <
list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:

> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
> >>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
> >>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
> >>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
>
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?
>
> Cheers,
> Terrence
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Feb 11 07:33:37 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:33:37 +0100
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <hl0tev$3jn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Terrence Cole wrote:
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
> 
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

The binary power operator has a higher precedence than the unary
negative operator. -0.1 ** 0.1 is equal to -(0.1**0.1)

Christian



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:35:26 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:05:26 +0530
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002110435h17c9f17bxef0035c058a84144@mail.gmail.com>

Just realized my flaw

>>> .1**.1
0.79432823472428149
>>> (-.1)**(.1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

- a ** b = - (a ** b) and not (-a) ** b, Thats why -.1**.1 giving you
-0.79432823472428149 since .1 ** .1 = 0.79432823472428149 and minus sign is
appended prior to it.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> Do you really believe that -0.1 ** 0.1 is a valid computational problem ?
> Can you raise a negative number to a fractional power ?
> Output on my console (python 2.6)
>
> >>> -.1 ** .1
> -0.79432823472428149
> >>> a,b = -.1,.1
> >>> a**b
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
> >>> -abs(a**b)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>
> There is a little issue here that '>>> -.1 ** .1' should give you error
> message. That is it.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Terrence Cole <
> list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
>
>> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>>
>> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
>> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>> >>> -0.1 ** 0.1
>> -0.7943282347242815
>> >>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>> >>> a ** b
>> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>> >>> -abs(a ** b)
>> -0.7943282347242815
>>
>> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
>> variable version return a complex?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Terrence
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Thu Feb 11 07:37:45 2010
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 14:37:45 +0200
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qot1vgst0bq.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Terrence Cole writes:

> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
> 
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) 
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
> >>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
> >>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
> >>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
> 
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

The minus sign is not part of the literal syntax. Python takes the
expression as -(0.1 ** 0.1), the binary operator binding tighter than
the unary.

Try (-0.1) ** 0.1, and try a = 0.1, then -a ** 0.1.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Feb 11 07:43:35 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:43:35 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4B73FB77.1090005@timgolden.me.uk>

On 11/02/2010 11:32, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Gregory Ewing<greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz>  writes:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
>> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
>> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the German
>> forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes,
>> and the British never managed to crack any of their messages.
>
> I think you are thinking of the Kriegsmarine (naval) Enigma.  Yes they
> were more careful with procedures, but the machine was also harder to
> crack because it had four rotors instead of three.  IIRC, the Brits were
> eventually (1942?) able to capture one by shooting up a German submarine
> and boarding it to get the machine while the sub was sinking; a British
> sailor wasn't able to get out in time and drowned during that operation.
> Getting the rotor settings off the captured unit (they may have had to
> do it more than once) was enough to get a foothold into the code.  My
> memory is hazy on this by now so I may have some parts wrong, but David
> Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma" tells the story (I read it many years
> ago).  A fictionalized version appears in Neil Stephenson's novel
> "Cryptonomicon".

And for those who haven't been to Bletchley Park [*] I recommend it.
Not only is it full of interesting stuff, but it has an engagingly
amateurish air about it which I personally prefer to the sleek-and-shiny
nature of many museum-y places today. When I was there last summer I
was disappointed to see that they'd closed the Pigeon Museum. But the
Model Railway club was still there (altho' we were too late in the day
to get in) and the new Computing Museum is full of delightful nostalgic
clutter being worked on by enthusiastic people. My kind of place..

TJG

[*] http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 11 07:47:56 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:47:56 -0600
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <4B73FC7C.5040006@tim.thechases.com>

Terrence Cole wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
> 
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) 
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
> 
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

I think this recently showed up on the list and the answer 
involved the order of operations and precedence of "-" vs. "**". 
  To check, try

   >>> (-0.1) ** 0.1
   >>> -(0.1 ** 0.1)

The first one is what the assignment-to-variables gains you, but 
I think "**" has a higher precedence than the unary-"-" so it 
gets performed first.

I don't have Py3 on my machine here, and 2.5 rejects the first form:

Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Nov 19 2009, 19:46:21) [GCC 4.3.4] on 
linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
information.
 >>> -(0.1**0.1)
-0.79432823472428149
 >>> (-0.1)**0.1
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

But perhaps Py3 changes evaluation, returning an complex number.

-tkc





From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:49:37 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:49:37 +0100
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002110449ibda3406s12f78f3fc17eb2bb@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/11/10, Terrence Cole <list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
>
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

Try this and think about operator precedence:

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Dec 13 2009, 16:50:25)
[GCC 4.4.2 20091027 (Red Hat 4.4.2-7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> (-0.1)**0.1
(0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>

I.e. -0.1**0.1 is not the same as (-0.1)**0.1, because it's first
0.1**0.1 and then a minus sign.

HTH,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 08:20:24 2010
From: wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com (dads)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:20:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sqlite3 bug?
References: <d6b16633-4d01-44bb-a64d-87772f12923a@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2333.1265848699.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b3a318fd-5fbe-4c14-b493-773e42535c69@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

Thank you

It just highlights that when your tired things can easily be missed
and
maybe you should leave things until the morning to view things with
fresh eyes =)


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 11 08:21:56 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:21:56 +0000
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
In-Reply-To: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl109m$fos$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/07/10 19:02, T wrote:
> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
> an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
> service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
> would be the best way around this?  Thanks!

All being said about LS account not having the appropriate rights to 
access the necessary devices/files.

Could it be so simple that the network is plain simply not available at 
all? For wireless connections I believe the connection/authentication by 
default is made in user space. I would save the output of an ipconfig 
run as the LS account to a file and see what is happening.
Perhaps followed by a ping.

-- 
mph


From vishal_shetye at persistent.co.in  Thu Feb 11 08:27:51 2010
From: vishal_shetye at persistent.co.in (Vishal Shetye)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:57:51 +0530
Subject: base32hex support in python?
Message-ID: <14B8F27D7CE40C4C9E481B2B845C2E0D026A34BDCF@EXCHANGE.persistent.co.in>

Hi,
One of the modules that I am currently working on requires base32hex encoding as defined by RFC 4648, section 7.
I checked base64 module which has base32encode/decode functionality but not with extended hex alphabet.
Is there a module, currently available, that provides this?

As far as I see, it looks fairly simple to add support for base32hex. It differs from the base32 encoding only in the alphabet used. I am willing to provide a patch.
Just to note, map01 argument won't be applicable to base32hexdecode as this encoding uses both 0 (zero) and O (oh) in its alphabet.

Looking at the section 13 of RFC 4648, I think, adding base32hex support would make it conform to RFC 4648.

-
Vishal

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From marklocklear at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 08:33:41 2010
From: marklocklear at gmail.com (Lumbee)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:33:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: exception in Tkinter on Ubtunu...
Message-ID: <561ee0cf-f1fd-49ee-89e9-527124f9ff62@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

...hey guys, I posted this over on the Ubuntu forums with no luck. I'm
running Ubuntu 9.10 and python 2.5. In Idle when I type in a function
I get this error...

>>> Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1417, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/MultiCall.py", line 151, in handler
    r = l[i](event)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/CallTips.py", line 55, in
try_open_calltip_event
    self.open_calltip(False)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/CallTips.py", line 79, in
open_calltip
    self.calltip.showtip(arg_text, sur_paren[0], sur_paren[1])
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/CallTipWindow.py", line 66, in
showtip
    self.position_window()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/CallTipWindow.py", line 35, in
position_window
    self.parencol))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2860, in bbox
    self.tk.call((self._w, 'bbox') + args)) or None
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1033, in _getints
    return tuple(map(getint, self.tk.splitlist(string)))
ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '(167,'
testNestEggFixed(

...I've tried reinstalling, and am not sure where to go from here. I
also get a 2nd small windows about 2X2" with 'idle' in the title, and
nothing in the box, and I cannot use the mouse if I open a Python
program from Idle. Any ideas?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 11 08:34:16 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:34:16 +0100
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002101956x1298f01euc40285c2227a0598@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>	<4B735F0F.6080503@sequans.com>
	<7a9c25c21002101956x1298f01euc40285c2227a0598@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B740758.8020208@sequans.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> <jeanmichel at sequans.com <mailto:jeanmichel at sequans.com>> wrote:
>
>     I don't know exactly what you are trying to do, but if your server
>     requires informations from the client, it would be better to ask
>     explicitly the client for those informations.
>     For instance, if a method requires te client IP address, then the
>     IP address is definitely a parameter of the method.
>
>
> I can't answer the OP, as I don't know the answer to his specific 
> question-- but er, asking a client to provide one's IP address is not 
> really a very workable solution. There's no way to really determine 
> your own IP address in a reliable way.
>
> All the usual methods (e.g., 
> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())) can fail and/or be wrong 
> in some not terribly uncommon situations. The only reliable way to get 
> such a piece of information is to connect to a server, and ask that 
> server what address you were connecting to them as. Even then, that IP 
> may not be the same as an IP you use to connect to say, a different 
> server (on a different network)
>
> --S
You're probably right.
But my point covered only the fact that if a method needs something it 
should ask it explicitly throught parameters, not taking the opportunity 
to guess it since it happens that it's a xmlrpc server and that the 
information could be deduced from the client IP address.

My feeling is that the OP needed something else than the client IP 
address, and was trying at the server side to map client IPs with the 
data he effectively needs. I could be wrong though.

JM






From Juergen.Hermann at 1und1.de  Thu Feb 11 08:34:26 2010
From: Juergen.Hermann at 1und1.de (jhermann)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:34:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8504b5fe-8776-4c60-a001-a27bc0225f6d@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

$ python -c "import this"


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 11 08:38:46 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 13:38:46 GMT
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<mailman.2365.1265892483.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1C8AAF857DCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:

> But perhaps Py3 changes evaluation, returning an complex number.

Yes, the change is documented at 
http://docs.python.org/3.1/reference/expressions.html#the-power-operator

If it is in any of the "What's new in Python x.xx" documents or in a PEP 
somewhere I haven't spotted it.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From zasaconsulting at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 09:16:12 2010
From: zasaconsulting at gmail.com (Alexzive)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:16:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to improve this cycle (extracting data from structured 
	array)?
References: <6ab43302-8700-495e-a2f7-c52282c62301@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1265890121.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <992f5035-904f-49b6-9d6a-6bf16cd03e32@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 1:08?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Alexzive wrote:
> > I am just wondering if there is a quick way to improve this algorithm
> > [N is a structured array which hold info about the nodes n of a finite
> > element mesh, and n is about 300.000). I need to extract info from N
> > and put it in to a 3*n matrix NN which I reshape then with numpy. I
> > think to "append" is quite unefficient:
>
> > ***********************************************************
> > N = odb.rootAssembly.instances['PART-1-1'].nodes
>
> > NN=[]
>
> > B=[0,0,0]
> > ?#auxsiliar vector
> > for i in range(len(N)):
> > ? ? B[0] = N[i].label
> > ? ? B[1] = N[i].coordinates[0]
> > ? ? B[2] = N[i].coordinates[1]
> > ? ? NN = append(NN,B)
>
> Usually this would be written with a list-comprehension,
> something like
>
> ? ?nn = [(x.label, x.coordinates[0], x.coordinates[1])
> ? ? ? ? ?for x in N]
>
> or if you really need lists-of-lists instead of lists-of-tuples:
>
> ? ?nn = [[x.label, x.coordinates[0], x.coordinates[1]]
> ? ? ? ? ?for x in N]
>
> -tkc

yeah, much better thanks!
Alex


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 09:21:57 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:21:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<mailman.2365.1265892483.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<Xns9D1C8AAF857DCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9ea745cf-e10e-4b61-a2bc-8390f54c79ff@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 1:38?pm, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> > But perhaps Py3 changes evaluation, returning an complex number.
>
> Yes, the change is documented athttp://docs.python.org/3.1/reference/expressions.html#the-power-operator
>
> If it is in any of the "What's new in Python x.xx" documents or in a PEP
> somewhere I haven't spotted it.

Not in the 'what's new' documents, as far as I can tell, but this
change was introduced as part of implementing PEP 3141.

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3141/

Here's an extract from the PEP, describing the 'Complex' abstract base
class:


class Complex(Number):
    """Complex defines the operations that work on the builtin complex
type.

    In short, those are: conversion to complex, bool(), .real, .imag,
    +, -, *, /, **, abs(), .conjugate(), ==, and !=.

    If it is given heterogenous arguments, and doesn't have special
    knowledge about them, it should fall back to the builtin complex
    type as described below.
    """

    <snip lots of other abstractmethods here>

    @abstractmethod
    def __pow__(self, exponent):
        """a**b; should promote to float or complex when necessary."""
        raise NotImplementedError


--
Mark


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 09:32:33 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:32:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
Message-ID: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

To all,
I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
windowsXP  I get a crash:
    'sorry for the inconvenience' etc  (so no clues about what is
causing the problem)

This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
from 'print'), no network connections.
Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
time...but at different points.

So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)

any pointer is very welcome,

henk-jan


From cjw at ncf.ca  Thu Feb 11 10:24:00 2010
From: cjw at ncf.ca (cjw)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:24:00 -0500
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl17eh$chk$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>

On 05-Feb-10 14:53 PM, Wanderer wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
>
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> Thanks
I prefer verbNoun.  Let's remember that PEP 8 is a guide, not a set of 
rules.

Colin W.


From gilsapir86 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 10:31:47 2010
From: gilsapir86 at gmail.com (apple man)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:31:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: can you help me about this deal?
Message-ID: <608d3dbd-4705-42e8-a77b-ee425a6dc8ef@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

hi
i saw this very cheap macbook pro
500$
here:  (the 3rd from the left)

http://sites.google.com/site/applestorebyamazone1/

i want to buy it, is it a good price? can i get a lower price?
thanks


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 10:55:30 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:55:30 -0600
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl199g$jp2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> Do you really believe that -0.1 ** 0.1 is a valid computational problem
> ? Can you raise a negative number to a fractional power ?
> Output on my console (python 2.6)
>
>  >>> -.1 ** .1
> -0.79432823472428149
>  >>> a,b = -.1,.1
>  >>> a**b
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>  >>> -abs(a**b)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>
> There is a little issue here that '>>> -.1 ** .1' should give you error
> message. That is it.

No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid mathematically. 
The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what the OP is using), this has 
been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 10:59:41 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:59:41 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p
	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl19kg$m8o$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
[...]
>> In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
>> to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
>> hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.
>>
>> You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to tell people to "learn to
>> read",
> 
> I have not used that expression.
> 
> However I have suggest and emphasized that it might help to *read*
> whatever one quotes, when the quoted material (such as one paragraph)
> has not been read.
> 
> Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply
> that the person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.
> Telling a person to read something that's obviously not been read is
> quite another matter. So, you are misrepresenting  --  again  --  and in
> a quite revealing way, sorry.
> 
Pardon me? You used it on December 16 in a response to Mensanator in
message <hgbri8$e17$1 at news.eternal-september.org>

M :> How about devoting a section on downloading the source files
M :> and compiling it on a Mac?

AS:> Learn to read.

AS:> At the top of every second page it tells you that this is an
AS:> introduction based on Windows.

I am sure you will have some glib response as to why this wasn't rude at
all. Allow me to correct you - it was, and rudeness is not welcomed on
comp.lang.python. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen (why, I have even
been known to be rude myself - we are none of us perfect, after all).

I have already given ample evidence that when I am wrong I will admit
it. You, contrariwise, maintain that you will admit when you are wrong
(I believe 40% of the time was the figure you used) but I fail to
remember any single incident when you made such an admission.

>> and calling their assertions "bullshit",
> 
> Yes, in this group, but only for personal attacks.
> 
> Such as yours.
> 
> I think I've shown extreme restraint in the face of bullying from you
> and some followers, and calling the insinuations bullshit is quite mild.

I don't have "followers". Assertions I make are my own, and stand alone
without the need of support. Calling them "bullshit" is indeed quite
mild, but doesn't invalidate them. You can only do that by engaging, but
instead you hysterically shout "ad hominem" whenever anyone makes a
personal remark.
> 
>> but when we try to point
>> out aspects of your behavior that are either undesirable or unacceptable
>> we are indulging in "ad hominem attacks".
> 
> That is an untrue and extremely misleading description of what you've
> been doing.
> 
I'll let that be judged on the record. You have consistently refused to
accept, despite assertions from several individuals (presumably those
you choose to characterize as my "followers", thereby allowing you to
write them off without seriously considering what they say - at least
that is how it looks from the outside) that criticism of your behavior
is not, in fact, an ad hominem attack but an attempt to engage you in
debate and have you modify that behavior.

So, for the final time: remarks about personal characteristics only
constitute ad hominem attacks ONLY when they are made for the purpose of
invalidating other (typically, in this group, technical) arguments.

If we met in person at a conference (God help us both) and you sat in an
open space session picking your nose, would you deem it an "ad hominem
attack" if I told you to stop? It sounds like it, even though I would
tell you to stop not so that others would respect your technical
arguments any less, but because by departing from the accepted standards
of behavior you would offend others.
> 
>> In your terms, your accusing me of bullying behavior is an ad hominem
>> attack on me, so I won't bother to respond further.
> 
> You're complaining about the person you're hitting saying clearly what
> you did.
> 
> If some truthful words about bullying can get you straight I'm for it.
> 
> Even if it means getting down to your level (and yes, I did).
> 
Nope, I'm not complaining at all. That's your tactic: "look, Steve is
hitting me". You are entitled to write what you like on this newsgroup,
but you have to accept that it will have consequences. I am simply
pointing out that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 10:59:49 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:59:49 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl19ko$m8o$2@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano:
[...]
>> accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from yours,
> 
> That is untrue.
> 
Well, that says it all really.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:17:44 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:17:44 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
Message-ID: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

I'm getting an exception (on socket) handled in a program I'm trying to 
debug. I have trouble locating where exactly that happens.

In such situation turning exception handling off could be useful, bc 
unhandled exception stack trace is precisely what I'm trying to obtain.

Anybody knows of such possibility?

Regards,
mk



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 11 11:23:34 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:34 +0000
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl1au8$n2g$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/05/10 19:53, Wanderer wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
>
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> Thanks

For me personally I do the following:
spam_get/spam_set; might be preferred if you have more spam_* functions 
(i.e. spam_del, spam_eat, etc.)

set_spam/get_spam; is I think reasonable if you have also a *_ham 
function (i.e. set_ham, get_ham).

Funny thing for me is that when I have both spam_* & *_ham naming, I 
usually rethink my approach and split it out to separate classes/modules.

Please note that this is at the moment a personal, uneducated, never 
really thought about it, preference. Meaning it is very likely that with 
some more insight there is a good chance that I find my approach in 
retrospect flawed.

-- 
mph


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Thu Feb 11 11:23:38 2010
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 18:23:38 +0200
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Robert Kern writes:
> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> > There is a little issue here that '>>> -.1 ** .1' should give you
> > error message. That is it.
> 
> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.

Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time. The
error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 11:27:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:27:17 -0500
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl1b88$s1g$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm getting an exception (on socket) handled in a program I'm trying to
> debug. I have trouble locating where exactly that happens.
> 
> In such situation turning exception handling off could be useful, bc
> unhandled exception stack trace is precisely what I'm trying to obtain.
> 
> Anybody knows of such possibility?
> 
> Regards,
> mk
> 
If the exception is currently being trapped by a handler in your code
you could just insert a "raise" statement at the start of that handler.
This will re-raise the same exception, which will presumably not be
caught a second time?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 11 11:41:58 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:41:58 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b743340$0$20738$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

catonano a ?crit :
(snip)
> Today, I tried to understand the twisted.web.client code and I found 3
> methods I couldn't find by who were called.
> 
> I asked on the mailing list and they suggested me where they were
> called and that the tool for such thing is "grep".
> 
> So, you grep, you get a list of files, you open each one of them and
> keep scrolling

May I suggest reading grep's FineManual ? with proper options, you'll 
get not only the file, but also the exact lines (and lineno) where the 
expression appears.

> If it's this, then it's not experimental at all, it's been done
> already and been put apart.
> 
> Crap won :-(

Ever read "worst is better" ?-)

Now, image-based systems like Smalltalk do have their share of quirks 
and drawbacks too.

Also, Smalltalk's toolbox can only be used by and for Smalltalk. A bit 
autistic, he ?

I'm doing mostly web development nowadays. That means that I'm 
constantly switching between server-side code (mostly Python or PHP but 
  can be almost any other language), shell scripts, SQL, html + whatever 
templating language is used by this project, javascript and css. And of 
course quite a few configuration file formats...

So well, as far as I'm concerned, not having to learn 42+ different 
toolboxes is a big plus (having to remember 42+ different languages is 
already hard enough) - I can use a same code editor (Emacs) and standard 
unix/linux text-handling tools on all my codebase.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 11:43:45 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 08:43:45 -0800
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
References: <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list at python.org>,
mk  <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have a problem with a threaded program: it frequently hangs on sys.exit.
>
>The problem is that my program uses threads which in turn use paramiko 
>library, which itself is threaded.
>
>I try to gracefully close the threads (below), but it doesn't always 
>work, if paramiko calls happen to be at stage of negotiating ssh 
>connection or smth similar.
>
>The only workable solution I have is a program sending itself SIGKILL, 
>which makes it terminated by OS (I think so).

You can also use os._exit().
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:45:05 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:45:05 +0100
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>

kj wrote:
> I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
> that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:
> 
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> (There, see?  My Unicodephobia just went up a notch.)
> 
> Here's the thing: I don't even know how to *begin* debugging errors
> like this.  This is where I could use some help.

 >>> a=u'\u0104'
 >>>
 >>> type(a)
<type 'unicode'>
 >>>
 >>> nu=a.encode('utf-8')
 >>>
 >>> type(nu)
<type 'str'>


See what I mean? You encode INTO string, and decode OUT OF string.

To make matters more complicated, str.encode() internally DECODES from 
string into unicode:

 >>> nu
'\xc4\x84'
 >>>
 >>> type(nu)
<type 'str'>
 >>> nu.encode()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc4 in position 0: 
ordinal not in range(128)

There's logic to this, although it makes my brain want to explode. :-)

Regards,
mk




From mgulsoy at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:45:30 2010
From: mgulsoy at gmail.com (M3RT)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:45:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:47:59 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:47:59 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1b88$s1g$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org> <hl1b88$s1g$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl1ca2$b0$2@ger.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
>> I'm getting an exception (on socket) handled in a program I'm trying to
>> debug. I have trouble locating where exactly that happens.

> If the exception is currently being trapped by a handler in your code

It's not my code.

> you could just insert a "raise" statement at the start of that handler.
> This will re-raise the same exception, which will presumably not be
> caught a second time?

I don't know where the handler is, that is precisely a problem. I'm 
trying to locate that handler.

Regards,
mk



From simon at brunningonline.net  Thu Feb 11 12:07:46 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:07:46 +0000
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 February 2010 16:17, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm getting an exception (on socket) handled in a program I'm trying to
> debug. I have trouble locating where exactly that happens.
>
> In such situation turning exception handling off could be useful, bc
> unhandled exception stack trace is precisely what I'm trying to obtain.
>
> Anybody knows of such possibility?

Not as far as I know. Besides, the chances are that if you were to be
able to turn off exception handling altogether your code wouldn't make
it as far as the code you are interested in anyway.

Is there some way you could monkey patch the exception class to add
some logging in there or something?

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:12:20 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:12:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 5:45?pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?

Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
(where is the bug?)

kind regards, henk-jan


From coldtortuga at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:30:04 2010
From: coldtortuga at gmail.com (Francis Carr)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:30:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5b51740d-11f1-4f01-b51c-d1b6ea161eb7@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

> I can't believe the code editing situation today is in a such sorry
> state.
I can't believe an old coder is feeling so sorry for himself.


> Today, I tried to understand the twisted.web.client code and I found 3
> methods I couldn't find by who were called.
>
> I asked on the mailing list and they suggested me where they were
> called and that the tool for such thing is "grep".
>
> So, you grep, you get a list of files, you open each one of them and
> keep scrolling and switching from one file to another... endlessly.
> Maybe I'm getting old, but I tend to get lost in the process.

Maybe the relevant lesson to be taken from Smalltalk is *not*
  "put it all in one image"
but instead
  "write code to solve problems, e.g., reading code"


I suggest defining a few shell functions to *automate* the search, for
example in zsh

function allf () {
  # Recursively find files with suffix matching comma-separated list
in $1.
  # For example, "allf cpp,hpp" finds all "*.cpp" and "*.hpp".
  find . -type f | grep -E "\.(${1//,/|})$"
}

function src () {
  # Similar to "allf", then search for a regex among the results.
  find . -type f -print0 | grep -zE "\.(${1//,/|})$" | xargs -0 grep -
lE $2
}

function srcl () {
  # Similar to "src" (see above),
  # then search for a pattern among the results,
  # and pass matching files to "less".
  src $1 $2 | xargs less -p $2
}


Smalltalk's images are cool.  But they are such a huge hammer, and
they impose so many additional requirements!  The costs outweigh the
cool.

 -- FC


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:32:55 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:32:55 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> Not as far as I know. Besides, the chances are that if you were to be
> able to turn off exception handling altogether your code wouldn't make
> it as far as the code you are interested in anyway.

Sure, but I could deal with that, jerry-rigging the code as exceptions 
go by, finally reaching the exception I care about.

With all the problems, this would still be much better than nothing. As 
thing are, the only way to do this is guessing and turning particular 
try / except blocks off.

(a really nifty solution would be turning exceptions on or off per 
module / file basis).

IIRC Lua and/or C++ do have this ability, why not Python?

I smell material for a PEP.

> Is there some way you could monkey patch the exception class to add
> some logging in there or something?

Sure I can, but how do I get out of Python the info *what called 
particular class/instance*? That is, how do I know who's the caller?

Regards,
mk



From no.email at please.post  Thu Feb 11 12:37:27 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:37:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2379.1265906673.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1f8n$47l$1@reader2.panix.com>



In <mailman.2379.1265906673.28905.python-list at python.org> mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:

>To make matters more complicated, str.encode() internally DECODES from 
>string into unicode:

> >>> nu
>'\xc4\x84'
> >>>
> >>> type(nu)
><type 'str'>
> >>> nu.encode()
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc4 in position 0: 
>ordinal not in range(128)

>There's logic to this, although it makes my brain want to explode. :-)


Thanks for pointing this one out!  It could have easily pushed my
Unicodephobia into the incurable zone...

~K


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:45:52 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:45:52 -0800
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Simon Brunning wrote:
>
>> Not as far as I know. Besides, the chances are that if you were to be
>> able to turn off exception handling altogether your code wouldn't make
>> it as far as the code you are interested in anyway.
>>
>
> Sure, but I could deal with that, jerry-rigging the code as exceptions go
> by, finally reaching the exception I care about.
>
> With all the problems, this would still be much better than nothing. As
> thing are, the only way to do this is guessing and turning particular try /
> except blocks off.
>
> (a really nifty solution would be turning exceptions on or off per module /
> file basis).
>
> IIRC Lua and/or C++ do have this ability, why not Python?
>
> I smell material for a PEP.


Um, Lua has nothing even vaguely like Python's exceptions. It has errors,
and you can "catch" them only by doing a protected call. Otherwise they halt
the entire interpreter.

Python exceptions are pervasive. I don't think you fully understand HOW
pervasive they are-- "turning off" exceptions would utterly break a -vast-
amount of Python code. Exceptions are not errors: exceptions are the
uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off exceptions,
you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become infinite--
exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator. Think about that,
*every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks.

They're also used in countless other areas which are simply not errors.


>  Is there some way you could monkey patch the exception class to add
>> some logging in there or something?
>>
>
> Sure I can, but how do I get out of Python the info *what called particular
> class/instance*? That is, how do I know who's the caller?
>

Um... run your code in a debugger.

That's what debugger's are -for-.

"pdb" is a simple one. Various IDE's have more advanced ones.

I think you're better served showing us what, "I'm getting an exception (on
socket) handled..." actually means, what is actually happening with real
code and output, and getting pointers on where to look, then trying to
gather material to support an honestly impossible change :)

--S
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 12:46:29 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:46:29 +0000
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com> <hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

mk wrote:
> kj wrote:
>> I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
>> that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:
>>
>> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 
>> 0: ordinal not in range(128)
>>
>> (There, see?  My Unicodephobia just went up a notch.)
>>
>> Here's the thing: I don't even know how to *begin* debugging errors
>> like this.  This is where I could use some help.
> 
>  >>> a=u'\u0104'
>  >>>
>  >>> type(a)
> <type 'unicode'>
>  >>>
>  >>> nu=a.encode('utf-8')
>  >>>
>  >>> type(nu)
> <type 'str'>
> 
> 
> See what I mean? You encode INTO string, and decode OUT OF string.
> 
Traditionally strings were string of byte-sized characters. Because they
were byte-sided they could also be used to contain binary data.

Then along came Unicode.

When working with Unicode in Python 2, you should use the 'unicode' type
for text (Unicode strings) and limit the 'str' type to binary data
(bytestrings, ie bytes) only.

In Python 3 they've been renamed to 'str' for Unicode _strings_ and
'bytes' for binary data (bytes!).

> To make matters more complicated, str.encode() internally DECODES from 
> string into unicode:
> 
>  >>> nu
> '\xc4\x84'
>  >>>
>  >>> type(nu)
> <type 'str'>
>  >>> nu.encode()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc4 in position 0: 
> ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> There's logic to this, although it makes my brain want to explode. :-)
> 
Strictly speaking, only Unicode can be encoded.

What Python 2 is doing here is trying to be helpful: if it's already a
bytestring then decode it first to Unicode and then re-encode it to a
bytestring.

Unfortunately, the default encoding is ASCII, and the bytestring isn't
valid ASCII. Python 2 is being 'helpful' in a bad way!


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 11 13:01:15 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:01:15 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>

hjebbers wrote:

> On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:

>> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
>> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
> 
> Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> (where is the bug?)

In the platform-specific code ;)

Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 13:06:34 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:34 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <4B74472A.6010301@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Gregory Ewing wrote:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
>> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
>> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the
>> German forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those
>> mistakes, and the British never managed to crack any of their
>> messages.
> 
> IIRC some versions of the Enigma weren't cracked because they used a 
> different setup and different daily keys.
> 
> The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years 
> before WW2 started. Some flaws in the instructions and a known plain 
> text attack made the crack of the Enigma practical. It took the
> British scientists merely hours rather than days or weeks to decipher
> the daily key with some smart tricks. For example they started fake
> attacks on ships or cities just to have the names in some encrypted
> reports.
 >
In some cases the British had decoded the messages before the intended
recipient!

The Americans decoded Japanese messages about an planned attack on an
island, but didn't know which one because of the fake names, so they
instructed their bases to report certain problems in a way that the
Japanese could decode.

Midway reported a shortage of water, the Japanese decoded it and sent a
message about it, the Americans decoded their message and discovered
that island's fake name, and thus found out that Midway was the intended
target of the attack.



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 11 13:14:39 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:14:39 -0800
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xpr4bwsfk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
>> Um... run your code in a debugger.
>
> ..except the code in question is multithreaded and pdb is no good for
> that, and last time I checked, yappi was broken.

Try winpdb.org.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 13:19:52 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:19:52 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1hmb$lsk$1@ger.gmane.org>


> the uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off 
> exceptions, you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become 
> infinite-- exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator. 
> Think about that, *every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks. 

Ouch.

>     Sure I can, but how do I get out of Python the info *what called
>     particular class/instance*? That is, how do I know who's the caller?
> 
> 
> Um... run your code in a debugger.

..except the code in question is multithreaded and pdb is no good for 
that, and last time I checked, yappi was broken.

> 
> That's what debugger's are -for-.
> 
> "pdb" is a simple one. Various IDE's have more advanced ones.

I tried using pdb on paramiko and my own threaded code, lost some hair 
in the process, and gave up. It's good for tracing the main thread, 
basically, not for threading.Threads.

> I think you're better served showing us what, "I'm getting an exception 
> (on socket) handled..." actually means, what is actually happening with 
> real code and output, and getting pointers on where to look, then trying 
> to gather material to support an honestly impossible change :)

I'm using a threaded library paramiko (probably by now half of this 
group is sick of hearing me saying this again). 2 of (rather broken) 
hosts (Solaris, Linux) are really, really slow when responding over SSH, 
like a minute for a key exchange. In paramiko, timeout doesn't work bc 
the timeout specified there is timeout for a socket and not for SSH.

When calling transport.socket.close() via threading.Timer like this:

def printandclose(self):
     print "\ntrying to close transport.sock"
     self.trans.sock.close()
     self.flag = True


self.flag = False
timer = threading.Timer(4, self.printandclose)
timer.start()
self.trans.start_client()
timer.cancel()

... I'm getting this on the console:

ERROR (9, 'Bad file descriptor')

According to a guy who is very knowledgable on the library (thanks for 
all the help, James) this is result of catching socket.error somewhere 
in paramiko code, like "except socket.error".

I need to find that place. On top of lack of proper handling of 
timeouts, this is important bc when calling paramiko SSHClient.connect() 
(which in turn uses the same machinery as transport.start_client IIRC) 
paramiko uses close to 100% of CPU when negotiating with such broken or 
unresponsive hosts.

For my reasons, I need to get this fixed.

Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 13:24:31 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:24:31 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1hv2$msp$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> the uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off 
> exceptions, you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become 
> infinite-- exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator. 
> Think about that, *every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks. 

Hmm what if one could turn off exception handling for particular 
exception classes?



From mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 13:24:32 2010
From: mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:24:32 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4B744B60.8070202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
>> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
>> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the German
>> forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes,
>> and the British never managed to crack any of their messages.
> 
> I think you are thinking of the Kriegsmarine (naval) Enigma.  Yes they
> were more careful with procedures, but the machine was also harder to
> crack because it had four rotors instead of three.  IIRC, the Brits were
> eventually (1942?) able to capture one by shooting up a German submarine
> and boarding it to get the machine while the sub was sinking; a British
> sailor wasn't able to get out in time and drowned during that operation.
> Getting the rotor settings off the captured unit (they may have had to
> do it more than once) was enough to get a foothold into the code.  My
> memory is hazy on this by now so I may have some parts wrong, but David
> Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma" tells the story (I read it many years
> ago).  A fictionalized version appears in Neil Stephenson's novel
> "Cryptonomicon".

U-559? I think that's the one where Hollywood made a film about it, but
portraying it as a purely American action. That didn't go down too well
in the UK!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 13:24:52 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:24:52 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4B744B74.30309@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
>> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
>> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the German
>> forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes,
>> and the British never managed to crack any of their messages.
> 
> I think you are thinking of the Kriegsmarine (naval) Enigma.  Yes they
> were more careful with procedures, but the machine was also harder to
> crack because it had four rotors instead of three.  IIRC, the Brits were
> eventually (1942?) able to capture one by shooting up a German submarine
> and boarding it to get the machine while the sub was sinking; a British
> sailor wasn't able to get out in time and drowned during that operation.
> Getting the rotor settings off the captured unit (they may have had to
> do it more than once) was enough to get a foothold into the code.  My
> memory is hazy on this by now so I may have some parts wrong, but David
> Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma" tells the story (I read it many years
> ago).  A fictionalized version appears in Neil Stephenson's novel
> "Cryptonomicon".

U-559? I think that's the one where Hollywood made a film about it, but
portraying it as a purely American action. That didn't go down too well
in the UK!



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 11 13:35:59 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:35:59 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>

mk wrote:

> 
>> the uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off
>> exceptions, you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become
>> infinite-- exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator.
>> Think about that, *every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
>>     Sure I can, but how do I get out of Python the info *what called
>>     particular class/instance*? That is, how do I know who's the caller?
>> 
>> 
>> Um... run your code in a debugger.
> 
> ..except the code in question is multithreaded and pdb is no good for
> that, and last time I checked, yappi was broken.
> 
>> 
>> That's what debugger's are -for-.
>> 
>> "pdb" is a simple one. Various IDE's have more advanced ones.
> 
> I tried using pdb on paramiko and my own threaded code, lost some hair
> in the process, and gave up. It's good for tracing the main thread,
> basically, not for threading.Threads.
> 
>> I think you're better served showing us what, "I'm getting an exception
>> (on socket) handled..." actually means, what is actually happening with
>> real code and output, and getting pointers on where to look, then trying
>> to gather material to support an honestly impossible change :)
> 
> I'm using a threaded library paramiko (probably by now half of this
> group is sick of hearing me saying this again). 2 of (rather broken)
> hosts (Solaris, Linux) are really, really slow when responding over SSH,
> like a minute for a key exchange. In paramiko, timeout doesn't work bc
> the timeout specified there is timeout for a socket and not for SSH.
> 
> When calling transport.socket.close() via threading.Timer like this:
> 
> def printandclose(self):
>      print "\ntrying to close transport.sock"
>      self.trans.sock.close()
>      self.flag = True
> 
> 
> self.flag = False
> timer = threading.Timer(4, self.printandclose)
> timer.start()
> self.trans.start_client()
> timer.cancel()
> 
> ... I'm getting this on the console:
> 
> ERROR (9, 'Bad file descriptor')
> 
> According to a guy who is very knowledgable on the library (thanks for
> all the help, James) this is result of catching socket.error somewhere
> in paramiko code, like "except socket.error".
> 
> I need to find that place. On top of lack of proper handling of
> timeouts, this is important bc when calling paramiko SSHClient.connect()
> (which in turn uses the same machinery as transport.start_client IIRC)
> paramiko uses close to 100% of CPU when negotiating with such broken or
> unresponsive hosts.
> 
> For my reasons, I need to get this fixed.

You could try to shadow the exception class with None:

>>> ZeroDivisionError = None
>>> try:
...     1/0
... except ZeroDivisionError:
...     print "caught"
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero

Applying that technique on a module containing

try: 
   ...
except socket.error: 
   ...

#untested
import socket

class SocketWrapper:
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return getattr(socket, name)
    error = None

import module_using_socket
module_using_socket.socket = SocketWrapper()

Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 13:42:08 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:42:08 -0500
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1hv2$msp$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1hv2$msp$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl1j56$q8s$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>> the uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off
>> exceptions, you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become
>> infinite-- exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator.
>> Think about that, *every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks. 
> 
> Hmm what if one could turn off exception handling for particular
> exception classes?
> 
An extension of the warnings mechanism might be the easiest way to play
with an implementation ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 11 13:43:23 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:43:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1j4a$j61$2@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-11, Terrence Cole <list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) 
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
>
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

Didn't we just do this one last week?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Hello?  Enema Bondage?
                                  at               I'm calling because I want
                               visi.com            to be happy, I guess ...


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Feb 11 13:53:04 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:53:04 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <hl1jm1$td0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Gregory Ewing wrote:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that
>> the Germans made some blunders in the way they used the
>> Enigma that seriously compromised its security. There
>> was reportedly a branch of the German forces that used
>> their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes, and
>> the British never managed to crack any of their messages.
> 
> IIRC some versions of the Enigma weren't cracked because they used a
> different setup and different daily keys.
> 
> The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years
> before WW2 started. Some flaws in the instructions and a known plain
> text attack made the crack of the Enigma practical. It took the British
> scientists merely hours rather than days or weeks to decipher the daily
> key with some smart tricks. For example they started fake attacks on
> ships or cities just to have the names in some encrypted reports.

I believe that all of Enigma was eventually cracked cos of two major flaws.
1) A letter could never be sent as itself.
2) The Luftwaffe were very poor when compared to the Wehrmacht or 
Kriegsmarine about security so they were a major leak of data regarding 
the other organisations.
3) The users instead of using random three letter combinations kept 
using the same ones.  HIT LER and BER LIN were popular, but the most 
famous one at Bletchley Park was the name of the guy's girlfriend.

Further, the far more powerful Geheimscreiber was also cracked at 
Bletchley by using Colossus.  Sorry some years since I read the book 
about this so can't remember the title or author.

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 13:57:29 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:57:29 -0500
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <15A7B7FA-BE34-4A6B-9D84-47CF3683E6DA@gmail.com>


On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Aahz wrote:

> In article <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> mk  <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I have a problem with a threaded program: it frequently hangs on sys.exit.
>> 
>> The problem is that my program uses threads which in turn use paramiko 
>> library, which itself is threaded.
>> 
>> I try to gracefully close the threads (below), but it doesn't always 
>> work, if paramiko calls happen to be at stage of negotiating ssh 
>> connection or smth similar.
>> 
>> The only workable solution I have is a program sending itself SIGKILL, 
>> which makes it terminated by OS (I think so).
> 
> You can also use os._exit().

This just came up on the Twisted IRC channel last night and came to the same conclusion.  Python's going to wait for threads to terminate and if they're not going to, neither is Python.  os._exit() came up as the 'last resort' way out of the app.

S



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:10:30 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:10:30 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <7xpr4bwsfk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7xpr4bwsfk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hl1kl8$1pk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
>>> Um... run your code in a debugger.
>> ..except the code in question is multithreaded and pdb is no good for
>> that, and last time I checked, yappi was broken.
> 
> Try winpdb.org.

This is a treasure! In minutes I've had this attached to remote process 
and debugging threads.

Muchos gracias Paul!

Regards,
mk




From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:11:51 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:11:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python and http POST
Message-ID: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hey All,

Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
result.

I'm using httplib2.

My two particular questions:

1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
key?

2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
'submit' the search?

Thanks all!

Matt


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:12:23 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:12:23 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <hl1koq$1pk$2@ger.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:

> try: 
>    ...
> except socket.error: 
>    ...
> 
> #untested
> import socket
> 
> class SocketWrapper:
>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>         return getattr(socket, name)
>     error = None
> 
> import module_using_socket
> module_using_socket.socket = SocketWrapper()

Very interesting solution. Thanks!

Regards,
mk






From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:19:08 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:19:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <b0c800e2-54cd-49a2-b463-41d5ff347b56@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 7:01?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>
> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> > (where is the bug?)
>
> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...

if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
bugreport?
(because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)

henk-jan


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:30:22 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:30:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bb98fa54-295f-431c-b214-37a3fc8200b8@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 7:01?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>
> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> > (where is the bug?)
>
> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...

if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
bugreport?
(because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)

henk-jan


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:31:52 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:31:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
Message-ID: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hello!

I am currently developing a simple video player in python, and my
problem is that i can't find a module which has a function that can
determine if frame(image) is I or P coded (MPEG coding). I have been
using PIL but I couldnt find anything that could help me with that
problem.

Thanks for sugestions!


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:40:39 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:40:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 7:01?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>
> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> > (where is the bug?)
>
> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...

if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
bugreport?
(because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)

henk-jan


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:42:42 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:42:42 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <16651e81002111142g1447cd87t74e7f932873e7fac@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebbers at gmail.com> wrote:
> To all,
> I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> causing the problem)
>

You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
help.  At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
message.  It would be even better if you could show us some of your
code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.

-- 
Jerry


From nathan.farrar at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:47:24 2010
From: nathan.farrar at gmail.com (Nathan Farrar)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:47:24 -0700
Subject: PExpect Cross-Platform Alternative
Message-ID: <348a45771002111147q534fba67m831fbf3961ea55d2@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Community,

Recently I've been automating lots of network operations tasks via simple
python scripts.  Originally, I utilized paramiko but found that the module
had issues working with cisco equipment.  I switched to pexpect and things
have worked wonderfully since (I've been running this scripts in a Linux
environment).  However, I was just tasked to get these scripts running in a
windows environment and to my dismay very quickly realized that pexpect is
not cross platform compatible.

Am I stuck, or are there solutions out there?

Cheers!
Nathan

-- 
The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring
liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the
truth. -- H. L. Mencken
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From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 14:55:54 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:55:54 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2376.1265904313.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2376.1265904313.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1n8i$95d$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steven D'Aprano:
> [...]
>>> accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from yours,
>> That is untrue.
>>
> Well, that says it all really.

You seem to insinuate that I'm saying that Steven is lying, and/or that Steven 
is lying.

 From context and your earlier similar behavior, I presume the former only.

Anyway that's a *very* dirty insinuation.

And ...

It seems you *do not understand* the difference between an incorrect statement 
and a lie.

Which is very telling, I'm sorry.

And you have yet again concentrated on a personal attack via insinuation etc., 
diversion, which also is very telling, sorry.


Cheers,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 14:57:39 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:57:39 -0500
Subject: PExpect Cross-Platform Alternative
In-Reply-To: <348a45771002111147q534fba67m831fbf3961ea55d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <348a45771002111147q534fba67m831fbf3961ea55d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1niq$c0l$1@ger.gmane.org>

Nathan Farrar wrote:
> Hello Community,
> 
> Recently I've been automating lots of network operations tasks via
> simple python scripts.  Originally, I utilized paramiko but found that
> the module had issues working with cisco equipment.  I switched to
> pexpect and things have worked wonderfully since (I've been running this
> scripts in a Linux environment).  However, I was just tasked to get
> these scripts running in a windows environment and to my dismay very
> quickly realized that pexpect is not cross platform compatible.
> 
> Am I stuck, or are there solutions out there?
> 
It works pretty well under Cygwin (which also improves your Windows
scripting environment no end). Any chance you would be allowed to
install that?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From ken at seehart.com  Thu Feb 11 14:58:53 2010
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:58:53 -0800
Subject: python and http POST
In-Reply-To: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B74617D.90709@seehart.com>

"Use tamperdata to view and modify HTTP/HTTPS headers and post 
parameters... "

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/966

Enjoy,
Ken

galileo228 wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> result.
>
> I'm using httplib2.
>
> My two particular questions:
>
> 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> key?
>
> 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> 'submit' the search?
>
> Thanks all!
>
> Matt
>   



From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 15:16:43 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:16:43 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
> [...]
>>> In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
>>> to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
>>> hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.
>>>
>>> You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to tell people to "learn to
>>> read",
>> I have not used that expression.
>>
>> However I have suggest and emphasized that it might help to *read*
>> whatever one quotes, when the quoted material (such as one paragraph)
>> has not been read.
>>
>> Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply
>> that the person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.
>> Telling a person to read something that's obviously not been read is
>> quite another matter. So, you are misrepresenting  --  again  --  and in
>> a quite revealing way, sorry.
>>
> Pardon me? You used it on December 16 in a response to Mensanator in
> message <hgbri8$e17$1 at news.eternal-september.org>
> 
> M :> How about devoting a section on downloading the source files
> M :> and compiling it on a Mac?
> 
> AS:> Learn to read.
> 
> AS:> At the top of every second page it tells you that this is an
> AS:> introduction based on Windows.
> 
> I am sure you will have some glib response as to why this wasn't rude at
> all. Allow me to correct you - it was, and rudeness is not welcomed on
> comp.lang.python. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen (why, I have even
> been known to be rude myself - we are none of us perfect, after all).
> 
> I have already given ample evidence that when I am wrong I will admit
> it. You, contrariwise, maintain that you will admit when you are wrong
> (I believe 40% of the time was the figure you used)

No, 40% of contested cases. But that was sort of a white lie. I'm not that often 
wrong, and anyway it doesn't apply to me in [comp.lang.python] so far. It only 
applies to groups where only things that might be incorrect are challenged.


> but I fail to
> remember any single incident when you made such an admission.

Your memory seems to be very very bad, since I've stated I've been wrong also in 
direct debates with you.

But one person who /does/ have severe trouble admitting that he's wrong, going 
to the extreme of ad hominem attacks and using terms such as "wring" to avoid 
saying it (it's quite amazing, almost unbelievable) is Steve Holden.

Anyway, I was wrong about not having used that phrase "learn to read".

I'm not sure if I ever apologized directly to Mensanator for that, and now it's 
history, but what I do know I did was to follow up on that comment of his, 
making changes, and to acknowledge him for that in the [ack.txt] listing.

Any reader might draw conclusions from that, e.g. what I positively did or what 
I possibly forgot to do  --  we're not perfect beings any of us.


[Steve Holden rambling with personal characterizations & circular logic snipped]


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 15:17:54 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:17:54 +0100
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081816r3b7a7c4fq5b079424dbd1f46e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hkhd7t$opq$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081816r3b7a7c4fq5b079424dbd1f46e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1ojk$gdm$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> I use threads all the time (well, for certain types of workloads) and 
> have never seen this.
> 
> Are your threads daemon threads? The only time I've seen sys.exit() not 
> close out my program is when I'm launching non-daemon threads on accident.

The snag is that my program is using calls to another threaded library 
(paramiko) which does lots of stuff with sockets and communication 
(SSH). Paramiko in turn calls Crypto which has compiled C extensions. I 
really don't know what's going on in there, just guessing that this 
might trigger this behavior.

> Now, I do get some slightly random errors on close due to threads doing 
> stuff or returning from doing stuff while the shutdown procedure is 
> going on, but I don't really care, cuz, well, I'm shutting everything 
> down and nothing worth knowing is going on in the rest of the program.

Same as me, except I get lots of exceptions in threads if I shut down 
with sys.exit. SIGTERM somehow gets around this problem.

I'll try os._exit.

Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 15:18:16 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:18:16 +0100
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl1oka$gdm$2@ger.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:

> You can also use os._exit().

Thanks!




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 15:22:09 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:22:09 +0100
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl1orj$hcg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:

> You can also use os._exit().

Yes! It works cleanly! Thanks a million!

OTOH, if I use sys.exit(), it's just hanging there.

Regards,
mk



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 11 16:03:22 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:03:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d73f4114-00a2-466e-b384-d748b8828eba@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 3:23?pm, Peng Yu <pengyu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
> and ']' means closed interval as inhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_end...)
>
> [1, 3]
> [2, 9]
> [10,13]
> [11,12]
>
> I want to get the following merged intervals.
>
> [1,9]
> [10,13]
>
> Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
> library?

I vaguely recall a similar question a long time ago. Peng, is this a
homework assignment?

Perhaps we should add a standard module called "homework". It can have
functions for all the different homework assignments we see on
c.l.python. We can simply point people to this module and then can
include the code in their answers.


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 16:37:46 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:46 +0100
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
In-Reply-To: <d73f4114-00a2-466e-b384-d748b8828eba@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<d73f4114-00a2-466e-b384-d748b8828eba@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl1t7g$m3$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Jonathan Gardner:
> On Feb 10, 3:23 pm, Peng Yu <pengyu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
>> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
>> and ']' means closed interval as inhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_end...)
>>
>> [1, 3]
>> [2, 9]
>> [10,13]
>> [11,12]
>>
>> I want to get the following merged intervals.
>>
>> [1,9]
>> [10,13]
>>
>> Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
>> library?
> 
> I vaguely recall a similar question a long time ago. Peng, is this a
> homework assignment?
> 
> Perhaps we should add a standard module called "homework". It can have
> functions for all the different homework assignments we see on
> c.l.python. We can simply point people to this module and then can
> include the code in their answers.

If it's possible, there was/is this guy over in clc.c++ who responded/responds 
to homework questions with the most advanced, convoluted and, except for 
misleading names, technically correct solutions.


Cheers,

- Alf


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 16:43:17 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:43:17 +0100
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com> <hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>

MRAB wrote:

> When working with Unicode in Python 2, you should use the 'unicode' type
> for text (Unicode strings) and limit the 'str' type to binary data
> (bytestrings, ie bytes) only.

Well OK, always use u'something', that's simple -- but isn't str what I 
get from files and sockets and the like?

> In Python 3 they've been renamed to 'str' for Unicode _strings_ and
> 'bytes' for binary data (bytes!).

Neat, except that the process of porting most projects and external 
libraries to P3 seems to be, how should I put it, standing still? Or am 
I wrong? But that's the impression I get?

Take web frameworks for example. Does any of them have serious plans and 
work in place to port to P3?

> Strictly speaking, only Unicode can be encoded.

How so? Can't bytestrings containing characters of, say, koi8r encoding 
be encoded?

> What Python 2 is doing here is trying to be helpful: if it's already a
> bytestring then decode it first to Unicode and then re-encode it to a
> bytestring.

It's really cumbersome sometimes, even if two libraries are written by 
one author: for instance, Mako and SQLAlchemy are written by the same 
guy. They are both top-of-the line in my humble opinion, but when you 
connect them you get things like this:

1. you query SQLAlchemy object, that happens to have string fields in 
relational DB.

2. Corresponding Python attributes of those objects then have type str, 
not unicode.

3. then I pass those objects to Mako for HTML rendering.

Typically, it works: but if and only if a character in there does not 
happen to be out of ASCII range. If it does, you get UnicodeDecodeError 
on an unsuspecting user.

Sure, I wrote myself a helper that iterates over keyword dictionary to 
make sure to convert all str to unicode and only then passes the 
dictionary to render_unicode. It's an overhead, though. It would be 
nicer to have it all unicode from db and then just pass it for rendering 
and having it working. (unless there's something in filters that I 
missed, but there's encoding of templates, tags, but I didn't find 
anything on automatic conversion of objects passed to method rendering 
template)

But maybe I'm whining.


> Unfortunately, the default encoding is ASCII, and the bytestring isn't
> valid ASCII. Python 2 is being 'helpful' in a bad way!

And the default encoding is coded in such way so it cannot be changed in 
sitecustomize (without code modification, that is).

Regards,
mk



From astan.chee at al.com.au  Thu Feb 11 16:43:25 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:43:25 +1100
Subject: calculating a string equation
Message-ID: <4B7479FD.2050400@al.com.au>

Hi,
I have some variables in my script that looks like this:
vars = {'var_a':'10','var_b':'4'}
eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
What I'm trying to do is to plug in var_a and var_b's values from vars 
into eqat and see if eqat returns true or false as well as getting the 
value of result if these variables were "plugged in". How do I do this?
I'm also expecting eqat and result to contain various python 
mathematical operators like **, and compounded ()'s.
I'm not sure how to convert the equation; if I have to make a bunch of 
if-statements or if there is a python function that already does 
something like this.
Thanks for any help.
Cheers
Astan



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 16:48:12 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:48:12 -0600
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl1tur$3h9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-11 15:43 PM, mk wrote:
> MRAB wrote:

>> Strictly speaking, only Unicode can be encoded.
>
> How so? Can't bytestrings containing characters of, say, koi8r encoding
> be encoded?

I think he means that only unicode objects can be encoded using the .encode() 
method, as clarified by his next sentence:

>> What Python 2 is doing here is trying to be helpful: if it's already a
>> bytestring then decode it first to Unicode and then re-encode it to a
>> bytestring.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 11 16:50:00 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:50:00 +0000
Subject: calculating a string equation
References: <mailman.2405.1265924615.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2ljezigs7.fsf@googlemail.com>

Astan Chee <astan.chee at al.com.au> writes:

> Hi,
> I have some variables in my script that looks like this:
> vars = {'var_a':'10','var_b':'4'}
> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
> What I'm trying to do is to plug in var_a and var_b's values from vars
> into eqat and see if eqat returns true or false as well as getting the
> value of result if these variables were "plugged in". How do I do
> this?
> I'm also expecting eqat and result to contain various python
> mathematical operators like **, and compounded ()'s.
> I'm not sure how to convert the equation; if I have to make a bunch of
> if-statements or if there is a python function that already does
> something like this.

Yes: eval()

>>> vars = {'var_a':10 ,'var_b':4}
>>> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
>>> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
>>> eval(eqat, vars)
False
>>> eval(result, vars)
2

(Note that I have slightly modified your vars dictionary)
See a recent thread about the dangers of eval().

-- 
Arnaud


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 17:11:17 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:17 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl1va4$8bm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 1:37 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> Consider just the
> assert( t is not s )
> t = s
>
> Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?

By 'computer', do you mean 'anything that computes' (including humans) 
or specifically 'electronic computer'?

> But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.

Agreed, in whatever 'memory' the 'computer' is using.

> You describe that memory change as that t has been "bound" to the same
> object as s.

I prefer to use the word 'associated': namespaces are a many-to-one 
association between names and objects.

> By which you mean that henceforth, until the next assignment to t, t
> *refers* to the same object as s.

T and s are both associated with the same object.

> That explanation in terms of "refers" is necessary.

I disagree

> No beginner knows what it means that a name is "bound" to something means, until it's been
> explained.

I agree, which is why I am trying to avoid 'bound', etc, in favor of 
'associated'. One problem of 'bind' is that it sometimes raises the 
question of which is bound to which. 'Associated' avoids that.

> The explanation is necessarily in terms of "refers to".

I have given an alternative, even if you still prefer yours.

> When something A refers to something B, then by definition A is a
> *reference* to B.

I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do 
you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you? In either case, the 
Python definition uses 'refers to' in the same way that names refer to 
people, and did even before names were used in electro-mechanical 
computer programming.

 >Steven D'Aprano:
>> My version describes what happens at the level of high-level Python
>> code, which is the defined semantics of the language. It makes no
>> assumptions about the implementation, completely unlike yours which is
>> entirely implementation-
>> specific. My description is equally valid whether Python is being
>> executed by the CPython virtual machine on an Intel-compatible
>> processor, or hand-simulated with pencil and paper, or something
>> completely different. Yours is not.

About 13 years ago, I noticed that electronically executable Python was 
very similar to some of the designed-for-human-reading algoritm 
languages (pseudocode) that were not. I then coined the oxymoron 
'executable pseudocode' for Python. I see the difference between the 
descriptions as reflecting the difference between Python, the executable 
algorithm language and Python, the machine programming language.

 >> I describe the high-level language, you describe one implementation.
 >> Neither view is *wrong*, per se, but one describes the semantics of
 >> the language while the other describes the implementation.

I think anyone writing books using Python should at least understand the 
abstract view even if he prefers to write from the more concrete view.

Terry Jan Reedy



From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 17:26:34 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:26:34 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2032$se2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Terry Reedy:
> On 2/11/2010 1:37 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> Consider just the
>> assert( t is not s )
>> t = s
>>
>> Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?
> 
> By 'computer', do you mean 'anything that computes' (including humans) 
> or specifically 'electronic computer'?

In this context I mean the virtual machine that a Python language assumes.

Doesn't matter if it's electronic or a pen-and-pencil simulation.


>> But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.
> 
> Agreed, in whatever 'memory' the 'computer' is using.
> 
>> You describe that memory change as that t has been "bound" to the same
>> object as s.
> 
> I prefer to use the word 'associated': namespaces are a many-to-one 
> association between names and objects.
> 
>> By which you mean that henceforth, until the next assignment to t, t
>> *refers* to the same object as s.
> 
> T and s are both associated with the same object.
> 
>> That explanation in terms of "refers" is necessary.
> 
> I disagree
> 
>> No beginner knows what it means that a name is "bound" to something 
>> means, until it's been
>> explained.
> 
> I agree, which is why I am trying to avoid 'bound', etc, in favor of 
> 'associated'. One problem of 'bind' is that it sometimes raises the 
> question of which is bound to which. 'Associated' avoids that.
> 
>> The explanation is necessarily in terms of "refers to".
> 
> I have given an alternative, even if you still prefer yours.

"Associated" is just less precise than "refers".

"Associated" is two-way.

Anyway it's just a term, and if you define it to mean a one-way reference, then 
nothing substantial is changed except more room for misunderstanding.


>> When something A refers to something B, then by definition A is a
>> *reference* to B.
> 
> I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do 
> you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you?

Yes, and that's irrelevant, because you can't change a name. It's a slightly 
different meaning. But a name edit field with my name in it most probably refers 
to me.


> In either case, the 
> Python definition uses 'refers to' in the same way that names refer to 
> people, and did even before names were used in electro-mechanical 
> computer programming.

That's so subtle a distinction that it appears meaningless to me.

It says "refers to" but doesn't mean "refers to"?



>  >Steven D'Aprano:
>>> My version describes what happens at the level of high-level Python
>>> code, which is the defined semantics of the language. It makes no
>>> assumptions about the implementation, completely unlike yours which is
>>> entirely implementation-
>>> specific. My description is equally valid whether Python is being
>>> executed by the CPython virtual machine on an Intel-compatible
>>> processor, or hand-simulated with pencil and paper, or something
>>> completely different. Yours is not.
> 
> About 13 years ago, I noticed that electronically executable Python was 
> very similar to some of the designed-for-human-reading algoritm 
> languages (pseudocode) that were not. I then coined the oxymoron 
> 'executable pseudocode' for Python. I see the difference between the 
> descriptions as reflecting the difference between Python, the executable 
> algorithm language and Python, the machine programming language.
> 
>  >> I describe the high-level language, you describe one implementation.
>  >> Neither view is *wrong*, per se, but one describes the semantics of
>  >> the language while the other describes the implementation.
> 
> I think anyone writing books using Python should at least understand the 
> abstract view even if he prefers to write from the more concrete view.

It seems to me that you lack an understanding of the abstract here, going into 
imagined and not concretely discussed differences between "refers to" and 
"refers to".

Until or if (but I think it unlikely) you can explain clearly what that 
difference between "refers to" and "refers to" is, it's just wordplay.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 17:36:05 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:36:05 -0500
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl20s0$dd4$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
> 
>> When working with Unicode in Python 2, you should use the 'unicode' type
>> for text (Unicode strings) and limit the 'str' type to binary data
>> (bytestrings, ie bytes) only.
> 
> Well OK, always use u'something', that's simple -- but isn't str what I
> get from files and sockets and the like?
> 
Yes, which is why you need to know what encoding was used to create it.

>> In Python 3 they've been renamed to 'str' for Unicode _strings_ and
>> 'bytes' for binary data (bytes!).
> 
> Neat, except that the process of porting most projects and external
> libraries to P3 seems to be, how should I put it, standing still? Or am
> I wrong? But that's the impression I get?
> 
No, it's probably not going as quickly as you would like, but it's
certainly not standing still. Some of these libraries are substantial
works, and there were changes to the C API that take quite a bit of work
to adapt existing code to.

> Take web frameworks for example. Does any of them have serious plans and
> work in place to port to P3?
> 
There have already been demonstrations of partially-working Python 3
Django. I can't speak to the rest.

>> Strictly speaking, only Unicode can be encoded.
> 
> How so? Can't bytestrings containing characters of, say, koi8r encoding
> be encoded?
> 
It's just terminology. If a bytestring contains koi8r characters then
(as you unconsciously recognized by your use of the word "encoding") it
already *has* been encoded.

>> What Python 2 is doing here is trying to be helpful: if it's already a
>> bytestring then decode it first to Unicode and then re-encode it to a
>> bytestring.
> 
> It's really cumbersome sometimes, even if two libraries are written by
> one author: for instance, Mako and SQLAlchemy are written by the same
> guy. They are both top-of-the line in my humble opinion, but when you
> connect them you get things like this:
> 
> 1. you query SQLAlchemy object, that happens to have string fields in
> relational DB.
> 
> 2. Corresponding Python attributes of those objects then have type str,
> not unicode.
> 
Yes, a relational database will often return ASCII, but nowadays people
are increasingly using encoded Unicode. In that case you need to be
aware of the encoding that has been used to render the Unicode values
into the byte strings (which in Python 2 are of type str) so that you
can decode them into Unicode.

> 3. then I pass those objects to Mako for HTML rendering.
> 
> Typically, it works: but if and only if a character in there does not
> happen to be out of ASCII range. If it does, you get UnicodeDecodeError
> on an unsuspecting user.
> 
Well first you need to be clear what you are passing to Mako.

> Sure, I wrote myself a helper that iterates over keyword dictionary to
> make sure to convert all str to unicode and only then passes the
> dictionary to render_unicode. It's an overhead, though. It would be
> nicer to have it all unicode from db and then just pass it for rendering
> and having it working. (unless there's something in filters that I
> missed, but there's encoding of templates, tags, but I didn't find
> anything on automatic conversion of objects passed to method rendering
> template)
> 
Some database modules will distinguish between fields of type varchar
and nvarchar, returning Unicode objects for the latter. You will need to
ensure that the module knows which encoding is used in the database.
This is usually automatic.

> But maybe I'm whining.
> 
Nope, just struggling with a topic that is far from straightforward the
first time you encounter it.
> 
>> Unfortunately, the default encoding is ASCII, and the bytestring isn't
>> valid ASCII. Python 2 is being 'helpful' in a bad way!
> 
> And the default encoding is coded in such way so it cannot be changed in
> sitecustomize (without code modification, that is).
> 
Yes, the default encoding is not always convenient.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 17:39:45 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:39:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 8:42?pm, Jerry Hill <malaclyp... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
> help. ?At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
> message. ?It would be even better if you could show us some of your
> code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
> self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.
>
> --
> Jerry

the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
not copy/paste text.
how do I upload a png-file?

problem is that the same error happens over and over (I can reproduce
it), but not at the same place (the is a logging in the application so
that is quite easy to see.)
but ....I can show you my code. it's an open source EDI application.
but it is not a small bit of code....
I am more than will to show you how to reproduce the error.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 17:39:51 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:39:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10419981-eca8-44c7-a216-508431481151@h12g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 8:42?pm, Jerry Hill <malaclyp... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
> help. ?At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
> message. ?It would be even better if you could show us some of your
> code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
> self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.
>
> --
> Jerry

the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
not copy/paste text.
how do I upload a png-file?

problem is that the same error happens over and over (I can reproduce
it), but not at the same place (the is a logging in the application so
that is quite easy to see.)
but ....I can show you my code. it's an open source EDI application.
but it is not a small bit of code....
I am more than will to show you how to reproduce the error.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 17:52:05 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:52:05 -0500
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <hl21mk$g47$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 11:23 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Robert Kern writes:
>> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>> There is a little issue here that '>>>  -.1 ** .1' should give you
>>> error message. That is it.
>>
>> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
>> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
>> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.
>
> Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time.

You forgot the smiley ;-).

 > The error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).

The compiler would never see the difference between -.1 ** .1 and the 
first and probably no difference with the second either.




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 17:56:15 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <007f26f3-5310-4ed9-bb25-b467fb248825@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 2:39?pm, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 8:42?pm, Jerry Hill <malaclyp... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > To all,
> > > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > > ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > > causing the problem)
>
> > You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
> > help. ?At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
> > message. ?It would be even better if you could show us some of your
> > code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
> > self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.
>
> > --
> > Jerry
>
> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
> not copy/paste text.
> how do I upload a png-file?
>
> problem is that the same error happens over and over (I can reproduce
> it), but not at the same place (the is a logging in the application so
> that is quite easy to see.)
> but ....I can show you my code. it's an open source EDI application.
> but it is not a small bit of code....
> I am more than will to show you how to reproduce the error.

People coming here ask for help will vary in the amount of detail
given, but I've rarely seen anyone as reluctant as you.  It's like
walking into an auto repair shop and asking the mechanic what's wrong
with your car by trying to imitate the noise it makes.

If your code is very largre, you're not going to get out of this
without doing some of your own legwork.  I'm sorry.

Do this: Take your code, make a copy of it.  Start removing code from
the copy (in a controlled way) until the problem disappears.  When you
remove code don't worry about whether it produces anything useful, the
object is to try to identify what's causing the error.  Whatever code
you removed when the error disappears should give you a clue what's
causing it.  Then, if need be, you can come back and post details.  If
you manage to get the program to a small size without eliminating the
problem, you can post it here.


Carl Banks


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 17:59:50 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:59:50 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl2254$g47$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 9:32 AM, hjebbers wrote:
> To all,
> I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> windowsXP  I get a crash:
>      'sorry for the inconvenience' etc  (so no clues about what is
> causing the problem)
>
> This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> from 'print'), no network connections.
> Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> time...but at different points.
>
> So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> any pointer is very welcome,

Are you using a 3rd-party extension (compiled-C) module? If so, I would 
suspect something platform specific in that.



From emile at fenx.com  Thu Feb 11 18:13:19 2010
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:13:19 -0800
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl22qn$k4c$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 6:32 AM hjebbers said...
> To all,
> I am running an EDI translator,

... let's say bots  :)

> and doing stress tests.
> When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> windowsXP  I get a crash:
>      'sorry for the inconvenience' etc  (so no clues about what is
> causing the problem)

... and it's running directly under python...


I use textpad.  It allows me to launch a script from a command window 
under its control, which when python subsequently crashes, commonly 
leaves the traceback in the textpad launched command window.

Perhaps that'll help?

Emile
--also on the bots list and will be digging in seriously over the next 
several weeks


>
> This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> from 'print'), no network connections.
> Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> time...but at different points.
>
> So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> any pointer is very welcome,
>
> henk-jan




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 18:20:16 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:20:16 -0500
Subject: python and http POST
In-Reply-To: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl23be$lmp$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 2:11 PM, galileo228 wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> result.
>
> I'm using httplib2.
>
> My two particular questions:
>
> 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> key?
>
> 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> 'submit' the search?

This
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/uid/sikuli/
*might* help you.



From peter.milliken at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:26:58 2010
From: peter.milliken at gmail.com (Peter)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:26:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<d73f4114-00a2-466e-b384-d748b8828eba@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <14520376-06ca-4cc9-a6b0-52b00a95700e@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 8:03?am, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 10, 3:23?pm, Peng Yu <pengyu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> > merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
> > and ']' means closed interval as inhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_end...)
>
> > [1, 3]
> > [2, 9]
> > [10,13]
> > [11,12]
>
> > I want to get the following merged intervals.
>
> > [1,9]
> > [10,13]
>
> > Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
> > library?
>
> I vaguely recall a similar question a long time ago. Peng, is this a
> homework assignment?
>
> Perhaps we should add a standard module called "homework". It can have
> functions for all the different homework assignments we see on
> c.l.python. We can simply point people to this module and then can
> include the code in their answers.

Good idea - that would (also) give the teachers a convenient place to
check for what assignments have been solved by this list so they can
propose something else.

They can also grade the submissions against the code kept in this area
- exact copies could receive an "F" (for example :-))

Peter


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 11 18:32:08 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:08 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:31:52 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I am currently developing a simple video player in python, and my
> problem is that i can't find a module which has a function that can
> determine if frame(image) is I or P coded (MPEG coding). I have been
> using PIL but I couldnt find anything that could help me with that
> problem.

How are you reading the video?  PIL doesn't claim to do more than identify  
MPEG files.  Also, which MPEG encoding, in which container format?

If you aren't just putting a wrapper around something like ffmpeg, I  
rather suspect you'll have to decode the bitstream yourself.  That could  
be rather painful if you're talking about MPEG-4/10.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 18:34:14 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:34:14 -0500
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl245l$o3d$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 4:43 PM, mk wrote:

> Neat, except that the process of porting most projects and external
> libraries to P3 seems to be, how should I put it, standing still?

What is important are the libraries, so more new projects can start in 
3.x. There is a slow trickly of 3.x support announcements.

> But maybe I'm whining.

Or perhaps explaining why 3.x unicode improvements are needed.

tjr



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb 11 18:36:40 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:36:40 -0300
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7zk7es9x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:25:00 -0300, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>
escribi?:
> On 2/10/2010 4:49 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>
>> I've written a decorator for "injecting" a __function__ name into the
>> function namespace, but I can't find it anywhere. I think I implemented
>> it by adding a fake additional argument and replacing LOAD_GLOBAL with
>> LOAD_NAME in the bytecode.
>
> The decorator only needs to replace the defaults args tuple.
> It does not even need to know the parameter name,
> just that it is the only (or last) with a default .
>
> def f(n, me=None):
>      if n > 0: return n*me(n-1)
>      elif n==0: return 1
>
> f.__defaults__ = (f,) # 3.1
> print(f(5))

This is simple to implement, but requires changing the function
definition. My goal was to keep the original code unchanged, that is,
leave it as:

def f(n):
        if n > 0: return n*f(n-1)
        elif n==0: return 1

(like a normal, recursive function), and make the 'f' inside the function
body "magically" refer to the function itself.

> Of course, user could still screw up recursion by providing another  
> value for 'me'. This strikes me as about a likely (low) as a user  
> screwing up recursion in a library module function by rebinding the name  
> in the imported module.

Well, if people really want to shoot themselves in the foot, there's
nothing we can do to avoid that...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jlconlin at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:39:09 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
Message-ID: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have been using Python for several years now and have never run into
memory errors?

until now.

My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
MemoryError.  I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not
2GB worth.  I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation
in Python because of the garbage collector.  On this note I have a few
questions.  FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.

1.    When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it
copy that variable or is it just a reference/pointer?  I was under the
impression that it was just a pointer to the data.
2.    When do I need to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when
can I trust Python to take care of it?
3.    Any good practice suggestions?

Thanks,
Jeremy


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 11 18:46:27 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:46:27 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

<cut all>
Well at least you are well written and more subtle than Xah Lee.
Though I find him also quite amusing, I do like a good flame-war every 
now and again, and in that perspective I solute you.

-- 
mph


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:56:50 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:56:50 -0800
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002111556x4cc04c23u2586a952fd1c8b91@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> MemoryError.  I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not
> 2GB worth.  I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation
> in Python because of the garbage collector.  On this note I have a few
> questions.  FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.
>

Is this pure-python, or are you using extension modules? Its possible a C
extension has a memory leak. Its also possible you're keeping references to
objects far longer then you need.


> 1.    When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it
> copy that variable or is it just a reference/pointer?  I was under the
> impression that it was just a pointer to the data.
>

The question doesn't precisely make sense in terms of Python, but I think I
see what you're getting at. Python doesn't implicitly copy anything: you
have to explicitly copy an object to end up with two of them. That said, it
sort of depends on what you're doing. When you pass objects into a class, if
that class stores a reference to those objects, they'll live as long as the
class does. More details would require you showing some examples of what
you're doing.


> 2.    When do I need to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when
> can I trust Python to take care of it?
>

Generally, you can "trust" Python-- and you can't manually
allocate/deallocate even if you wanted to.

If you're suffering a memory leak, it almost certainly comes from one of two
places:

1. Your code is keeping references somewhere to objects that you don't need
anymore, or
2. Some C extension you are using has some ref-counting bugs.

Once upon a time, reference cycles would also cause memory leaks, but the
cyclic GC breaks them now.


> 3.    Any good practice suggestions?
>

Look over your code: look at places where you bind objects to any names that
aren't local. Look for lists or dictionaries that you're putting stuff into
without really meaning to keep it forever, and maybe you aren't purging.
Global vars are worth a close look too.

This may be useful:
http://www.lshift.net/blog/2008/11/14/tracing-python-memory-leaks

--S
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From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 19:03:43 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:03:43 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl25p7$egj$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Jeremy:
> I have been using Python for several years now and have never run into
> memory errors?
> 
> until now.
> 
> My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> MemoryError.  I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not
> 2GB worth.  I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation
> in Python because of the garbage collector.  On this note I have a few
> questions.  FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.
> 
> 1.    When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it
> copy that variable or is it just a reference/pointer?  I was under the
> impression that it was just a pointer to the data.

Uhm, I discovered that "pointer" is apparently a Loaded Word in the Python 
community. At least in some sub-community, so, best avoided. But essentially 
you're just passing a reference to an object. The object is not copied.


> 2.    When do I need to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when
> can I trust Python to take care of it?

Python takes care of deallocation of objects that are /no longer referenced/.


> 3.    Any good practice suggestions?

You need to get rid of references to objects before Python will garbage collect 
them.

Typically, in a language like Python (or Java, C#...) memory leaks are caused by 
keeping object references in singletons or globals, e.g. for purposes of event 
notifications. For example, you may have some dictionary somewhere.

Such references from singletons/globals need to be removed.

You do not, however, need to be concerned about circular references, at least 
unless you need some immediate deallocation.

For although circular references will prevent the objects involved from being 
immediately deallocated, the general garbage collector will take care of them later.



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From sridharr at activestate.com  Thu Feb 11 19:22:49 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:22:49 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.5.5.7 is now available
Message-ID: <1E441CA2-F197-4F5B-B4F5-A5FE2E3D7882@activestate.com>

I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.5.5.7 is now available for
download from:

    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/

This is a minor release with several updates and fixes.

Changes in 2.5.5.7
------------------

- Upgrade to Python 2.5.5
- Upgrade to Tcl/Tk 8.5.8
- Upgrade to PyWin32 CVS (2009-11-10)
- Security upgrade to openssl-0.9.8l
- [Windows] Include Tcl/Tk header files
- [Windows] Allow side-by-side installation of 32-bit and 64-bit builds
- [Mac] Fix the MacOSX build to use Tcl/Tk 8.5.x

See the release notes for full details:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.5/relnotes.html#changes


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's binary distribution of Python. Builds
for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux are made freely available. Builds
for Solaris, HP-UX and AIX, and access to older versions are
available with ActivePython Business Edition:

    http://www.activestate.com/business_edition/

ActivePython includes the Python core and the many core extensions:
zlib and bzip2 for data compression, the Berkeley DB (bsddb) and SQLite
(sqlite3) database libraries, OpenSSL bindings for HTTPS
support, the Tix GUI widgets for Tkinter, ElementTree for XML
processing, ctypes (on supported platforms) for low-level library
access, and others. The Windows distribution ships with PyWin32 -- a
suite of Windows tools developed by Mark Hammond, including bindings
to the Win32 API and Windows COM. 

Beginning with the 2.6.3.7 release, ActivePython includes a binary package
manager for Python (PyPM) that can be used to install packages much
easily. For example:

    pypm install pylons

See this page for full details:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.5/whatsincluded.html

As well, ActivePython ships with a wealth of documentation for both
new and experienced Python programmers. In addition to the core Python
docs, ActivePython includes the "What's New in Python" series, "Dive
into Python", the Python FAQs & HOWTOs, and the Python Enhancement
Proposals (PEPs).

An online version of the docs can be found here:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.5/

We would welcome any and all feedback to:

    ActivePython-feedback at activestate.com

Please file bugs against ActivePython at:

    http://bugs.activestate.com/query.cgi?set_product=ActivePython


On what platforms does ActivePython run?
----------------------------------------

ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:

- Windows/x86
- Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
- Mac OS X
- Linux/x86
- Linux/x86_64 (aka "AMD64")
- Solaris/SPARC (Business Edition only)
- Solaris/x86 (Business Edition only)
- HP-UX/PA-RISC (Business Edition only)
- AIX/PowerPC (Business Edition only)
- AIX/PowerPC 64-bit (Business Edition only)

Custom builds are available in Enterprise Edition:

    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/enterprise/

Thanks, and enjoy!

The Python Team

--
Sridhar Ratnakumar
sridharr at activestate.com



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 11 19:36:45 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:36:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 3:39?pm, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been using Python for several years now and have never run into
> memory errors?
>
> until now.
>

Yes, Python does a good job of making memory errors the least of your
worries as a programmer. Maybe it's doing too good of a job...

> My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> MemoryError. ?I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not
> 2GB worth.

Do a quick calculation: How much are leaving around after you read in
a file? Do you create an object for each line? What does that object
have associated with it? You may find that you have some strange
O(N^2) behavior regarding memory here. Oftentimes people forget that
you have to evaluate how your algorithm will run in time *and* memory.

>?I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation
> in Python because of the garbage collector.

While it's not the #1 concern, you still have to keep track of how you
are using memory and try not to be wasteful. Use good algorithms, let
things fall out of scope, etc...

> 1. ? ?When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it
> copy that variable or is it just a reference/pointer? ?I was under the
> impression that it was just a pointer to the data.

For objects, until you make a copy, there is no copy made. That's the
general rule and even though it isn't always correct, it is correct
enough.

> 2. ? ?When do I need to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when
> can I trust Python to take care of it?

Let things fall out of scope. If you're concerned, use delete. Try to
avoid using the global namespace for everything, and try to keep your
lists and dicts small.

> 3. ? ?Any good practice suggestions?
>

Don't read in the entire file and then process it. Try to do line-by-
line processing.

Figure out what your algorithm is doing in terms of time *and* memory.
You likely have some O(N^2) or worse in memory usage.

Don't use Python variables to store data long-term. Instead, setup a
database or a file and use that. I'd first look at using a file, then
using SQLite, and then a full-fledged database like PostgreSQL.

Don't write processes that sit around for a long time unless you also
evaluate whether that process grows in size as it runs. If it does,
you need to figure out why and stop that memory leak.

Simpler code uses less memory. Not just because it is smaller, but
because you are not copying and moving data all over the place. See
what you can do to simplify your code. Maybe you'll expose the nasty
O(N^2) behavior.


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:09:13 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:09:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2410.1265929217.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6dd5bb28-9d70-4bef-999b-a4ae7b45847a@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 11:59?pm, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 2/11/2010 9:32 AM, hjebbers wrote:
>
>
>
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> > This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> > It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> > machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> > I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> > from 'print'), no network connections.
> > Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> > time...but at different points.
>
> > So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> > Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> > any pointer is very welcome,
>
> Are you using a 3rd-party extension (compiled-C) module? If so, I would
> suspect something platform specific in that.
That was my first thought. Sop I tried to eliminate that.
well, there is a connection to a database.
but I tested this with connections to SQLite, MySQL, PostGreSQL, and
the crash keeps coming.
So I think it is not a 3rd party module....
And all else is is pure python.

kind regards, Henk-Jan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 11 20:09:30 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 01:09:30 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <03849660$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:17 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> About 13 years ago, I noticed that electronically executable Python was
> very similar to some of the designed-for-human-reading algoritm
> languages (pseudocode) that were not. I then coined the oxymoron
> 'executable pseudocode' for Python.

That was yours? Nice one!


-- 
Steve


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:14:03 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:14:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2411.1265929912.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <481d2511-0bf1-4012-be1b-f1af54af5ada@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 12:13?am, Emile van Sebille <em... at fenx.com> wrote:
> On 2/11/2010 6:32 AM hjebbers said...
>
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator,
>
> ... let's say bots ?:)
>
> > and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> ... and it's running directly under python...
>
> I use textpad. ?It allows me to launch a script from a command window
> under its control, which when python subsequently crashes, commonly
> leaves the traceback in the textpad launched command window.
>
> Perhaps that'll help?
>
> Emile
> --also on the bots list and will be digging in seriously over the next
> several weeks
>
>
>
> > This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> > It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> > machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> > I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> > from 'print'), no network connections.
> > Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> > time...but at different points.
>
> > So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> > Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> > any pointer is very welcome,
>
> > henk-jan
>
>
Hi Emile,

yes, we are talking bots.

I run the bots engine from the commandline.
But... there is no python traceback. Python crashed 'hard'.

or have you something else in mind?

kind regards,henk-jan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 11 20:14:04 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 01:14:04 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2032$se2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <03849771$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:26:34 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do
>> you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you?
> 
> Yes, and that's irrelevant, because you can't change a name.

Pardon me, but you most certainly can. Even Germany, which doesn't allow 
people to change their legal name for frivolous reasons, makes exceptions 
and will allow people to change their name if (e.g.) they have a sex 
change, or if they are burdened with a name that causes them ridicule, 
and presumably for their equivalent of the witness relocation program. 
And even Germany doesn't presume to tell people what name they are known 
by to their friends and family.

In Python, one can't change names *in place*, because strings are 
immutable. (Although I have seen a hack with ctypes which allows you to 
modify string objects. It makes a nice trick, but is completely useless 
because of the side-effects.) Even if you could modify the name, that 
would break the namespace it was stored in. But of course you can change 
names in two steps:

x = something()
y = x
del x

And lo, we have changed the name x to y.



-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 20:17:46 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:17:46 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <03849771$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl2032$se2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<03849771$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl2a41$kfn$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:26:34 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do
>>> you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you?
>> Yes, and that's irrelevant, because you can't change a name.
> 
> Pardon me, but you most certainly can. Even Germany, which doesn't allow 
> people to change their legal name for frivolous reasons, makes exceptions 
> and will allow people to change their name if (e.g.) they have a sex 
> change, or if they are burdened with a name that causes them ridicule, 
> and presumably for their equivalent of the witness relocation program. 
> And even Germany doesn't presume to tell people what name they are known 
> by to their friends and family.
> 
> In Python, one can't change names *in place*, because strings are 
> immutable. (Although I have seen a hack with ctypes which allows you to 
> modify string objects. It makes a nice trick, but is completely useless 
> because of the side-effects.) Even if you could modify the name, that 
> would break the namespace it was stored in. But of course you can change 
> names in two steps:
> 
> x = something()
> y = x
> del x
> 
> And lo, we have changed the name x to y.

Good joke. :-)


Cheers,

- Alf


From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Feb 11 20:27:28 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:27:28 +0000
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<923ca72c-7b21-4abe-920f-b0b148df8ec7@t42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.12.01.27.27.734000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:17:51 -0800, Anthony Tolle wrote:

> 4. Consider switching to Python 3.x, since there is only one string
> type (unicode).

However: one drawback of Python 3.x is that the repr() of a Unicode string
is no longer restricted to ASCII. There is an ascii() function which
behaves like the 2.x repr(). However: the interpreter uses repr() for
displaying the value of an expression typed at the interactive prompt,
which results in "can't encode" errors if the string cannot be converted
to your locale's encoding.



From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:27:58 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:27:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pycrypto RSA ciphertext to string back to ciphertext issue
Message-ID: <4b65abb5-072f-4e3c-91eb-95eea6c8a6a9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>

Hey all,
I'm trying to convert the encrypted data from RSA to a string for
sending over xmlrpc and then back to usable data.  Whenever I decrypt
I just get junk data.  Has anyone else tried doing this?  Here's some
example code:

from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
from Crypto import Random

key = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
l = str(key.encrypt("dog",""))
l = stringToTuple(l)
l = key.decrypt(tuple(l))
print l

string to tuple:
def stringToTuple(string):
    if string[0] + string[-1] == "()":
        items = string[1:-1]
        items = items.split(',')
        return items
    else:
        raise ValueError("Badly formatted string (missing brackets).")

thanks for any help, I've been messing with this for days and have
come up dry.


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:30:39 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:30:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2411.1265929912.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0cf3d611-dc7f-4d77-b9e5-59762c022f20@g27g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 12:13?am, Emile van Sebille <em... at fenx.com> wrote:
> On 2/11/2010 6:32 AM hjebbers said...
>
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator,
>
> ... let's say bots ?:)
>
> > and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> ... and it's running directly under python...
>
> I use textpad. ?It allows me to launch a script from a command window
> under its control, which when python subsequently crashes, commonly
> leaves the traceback in the textpad launched command window.
>
> Perhaps that'll help?
>
> Emile
> --also on the bots list and will be digging in seriously over the next
> several weeks
>
>
>
> > This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> > It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> > machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> > I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> > from 'print'), no network connections.
> > Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> > time...but at different points.
>
> > So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> > Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> > any pointer is very welcome,
>
> > henk-jan
>
>



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:32:00 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2411.1265929912.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <626c4c0f-c02c-44f7-9032-5ea2c11e58a8@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 12:13?am, Emile van Sebille <em... at fenx.com> wrote:
> On 2/11/2010 6:32 AM hjebbers said...
>
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator,
>
> ... let's say bots ?:)
>
> > and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> ... and it's running directly under python...
>
> I use textpad. ?It allows me to launch a script from a command window
> under its control, which when python subsequently crashes, commonly
> leaves the traceback in the textpad launched command window.
>
> Perhaps that'll help?
>
> Emile
> --also on the bots list and will be digging in seriously over the next
> several weeks
>
>
>
> > This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> > It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> > machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> > I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> > from 'print'), no network connections.
> > Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> > time...but at different points.
>
> > So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> > Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> > any pointer is very welcome,
>
> > henk-jan
>
>



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:33:14 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:33:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<007f26f3-5310-4ed9-bb25-b467fb248825@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <221e80b8-fd1b-4585-bbd6-9ccb14eedb08@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 11:56?pm, Carl Banks <pavlovevide... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2:39?pm, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 8:42?pm, Jerry Hill <malaclyp... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > To all,
> > > > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > > > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > > > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > > > ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > > > causing the problem)
>
> > > You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
> > > help. ?At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
> > > message. ?It would be even better if you could show us some of your
> > > code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
> > > self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.
>
> > > --
> > > Jerry
>
> > the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
> > not copy/paste text.
> > how do I upload a png-file?
>
> > problem is that the same error happens over and over (I can reproduce
> > it), but not at the same place (the is a logging in the application so
> > that is quite easy to see.)
> > but ....I can show you my code. it's an open source EDI application.
> > but it is not a small bit of code....
> > I am more than will to show you how to reproduce the error.
>
> People coming here ask for help will vary in the amount of detail
> given, but I've rarely seen anyone as reluctant as you. ?It's like
> walking into an auto repair shop and asking the mechanic what's wrong
> with your car by trying to imitate the noise it makes.
>
I am reluctant because it is a lot of code ....as I told you, it
occurs during stress tests.
I am more than willing to show how to reproduce the crash.


> If your code is very largre, you're not going to get out of this
> without doing some of your own legwork. ?I'm sorry.
I am more than willing to do this, of course.

>
> Do this: Take your code, make a copy of it. ?Start removing code from
> the copy (in a controlled way) until the problem disappears. ?When you
> remove code don't worry about whether it produces anything useful, the
> object is to try to identify what's causing the error. ?Whatever code
> you removed when the error disappears should give you a clue what's
> causing it. ?Then, if need be, you can come back and post details. ?If
> you manage to get the program to a small size without eliminating the
> problem, you can post it here.
OK, I know how to trace a bug.

As I said, these are stress tests, in this case the input files are
MUCH larger than usualy.
Other stress tests run thousands of input file of regular to big
size.....
This all runs.
It does run OK on Linux (so am I looking for a bug in my program??).
The crash pops up at different places...this makes the procedure you
suggest quite awkward.
It is a hard crash of python. There is no traceback or something:
Python dies. Python is no more. It's stone dead. It has ceased to be.
It's a stiff. It's kicked the bucket etc

kind regards,
henk-jan




From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Feb 11 20:37:59 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:37:59 +0000
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.11.03.48.04.297000@nowhere.com>
	<mailman.2345.1265861117.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.12.01.37.59.0@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:03:29 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

>>     intervals = sorted(intervals, key = lambda x: x[0])
> 
> Since Python uses lexical sorting and the intervals are lists isn't the
> key specification redundant here?

Yes, but I wanted to make it explicit.

Well, omitting the key= would change the sorting order in the event that
multiple intervals have the same start, but it still won't affect the
result of the function overall.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 11 20:50:26 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 01:50:26 GMT
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:09 -0800, Jeremy wrote:

> My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> MemoryError.  I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not 2GB
> worth.

Are you sure?

Keep in mind that Python has a comparatively high overhead due to its 
object-oriented nature. If you have a list of characters:

['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']

there is the (small) overhead of the list structure itself, but each 
individual character is not a single byte, but a relatively large object:

 >>> sys.getsizeof('a')
32

So if you read (say) a 500MB file into a single giant string, you will 
have 500MB plus the overhead of a single string object (which is 
negligible). But if you read it into a list of 500 million single 
characters, you will have the overhead of a single list, plus 500 million 
strings, and that's *not* negligible: 32 bytes each instead of 1.

So try to avoid breaking a single huge strings into vast numbers of tiny 
strings all at once.



> I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation in
> Python because of the garbage collector.

You don't have to worry about explicitly allocating memory, and you 
almost never have to worry about explicitly freeing memory (unless you 
are making objects that, directly or indirectly, contain themselves -- 
see below); but unless you have an infinite amount of RAM available of 
course you can run out of memory if you use it all up :)


> On this note I have a few
> questions.  FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.
> 
> 1.    When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it copy
> that variable or is it just a reference/pointer?  I was under the
> impression that it was just a pointer to the data. 

Python's calling model is the same whether you pass to a class 
constructor or any other function or method:

x = ["some", "data"]
obj = f(x)

The function f (which might be a class constructor) sees the exact same 
list as you assigned to x -- the list is not copied first. However, 
there's no promise made about what f does with that list -- it might copy 
the list, or make one or more additional lists:

def f(a_list):
    another_copy = a_list[:]
    another_list = map(int, a_list)


> 2.    When do I need
> to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when can I trust Python to
> take care of it? 

You never need to manually allocate memory.

You *may* need to deallocate memory if you make "reference loops", where 
one object refers to itself:

l = []  # make an empty list
l.append(l)  # add the list l to itself

Python can break such simple reference loops itself, but for more 
complicated ones, you may need to break them yourself:

a = []
b = {2: a}
c = (None, b)
d = [1, 'z', c]
a.append(d)  # a reference loop

Python will deallocate objects when they are no longer in use. They are 
always considered in use any time you have them assigned to a name, or in 
a list or dict or other structure which is in use.

You can explicitly remove a name with the del command. For example:

x = ['my', 'data']
del x

After deleting the name x, the list object itself is no longer in use 
anywhere and Python will deallocate it. But consider:

x = ['my', 'data']
y = x  # y now refers to THE SAME list object
del x

Although you have deleted the name x, the list object is still bound to 
the name y, and so Python will *not* deallocate the list.

Likewise:

x = ['my', 'data']
y = [None, 1, x, 'hello world']
del x

Although now the list isn't bound to a name, it is inside another list, 
and so Python will not deallocate it.



> 3.    Any good practice suggestions?

Write small functions. Any temporary objects created by the function will 
be automatically deallocated when the function returns.

Avoid global variables. They are a good way to inadvertently end up with 
multiple long-lasting copies of data.

Try to keep data in one big piece rather than lots of little pieces.

But contradicting the above, if the one big piece is too big, it will be 
hard for the operating system to swap it in and out of virtual memory, 
causing thrashing, which is *really* slow. So aim for big, but not huge.

(By "big" I mean megabyte-sized; by "huge" I mean hundreds of megabytes.)

If possible, avoid reading the entire file in at once, and instead 
process it line-by-line.


Hope this helps,



-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 20:52:47 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:52:47 +0000
Subject: Pycrypto RSA ciphertext to string back to ciphertext issue
In-Reply-To: <4b65abb5-072f-4e3c-91eb-95eea6c8a6a9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b65abb5-072f-4e3c-91eb-95eea6c8a6a9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B74B46F.9070603@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> Hey all,
> I'm trying to convert the encrypted data from RSA to a string for
> sending over xmlrpc and then back to usable data.  Whenever I decrypt
> I just get junk data.  Has anyone else tried doing this?  Here's some
> example code:
> 
> from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
> from Crypto import Random
> 
> key = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
> l = str(key.encrypt("dog",""))
> l = stringToTuple(l)
> l = key.decrypt(tuple(l))
> print l
> 
> string to tuple:
> def stringToTuple(string):
>     if string[0] + string[-1] == "()":
>         items = string[1:-1]
>         items = items.split(',')
>         return items
>     else:
>         raise ValueError("Badly formatted string (missing brackets).")
> 
> thanks for any help, I've been messing with this for days and have
> come up dry.

I don't know what you're trying to do with converting tuples to
bytestrings and back, but this works:

 >>> key = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
 >>> encrypted = key.encrypt("dog", "")[0]
 >>> encrypted
"NB\xe9\xcf\x88\xf8b.\x81X{\x12\xeaH\x03\xe9\xc4\xd6\xdb\x00lS\r\xc9in|\xa5\xb1'
$\x90_\xc5t$\xd0\xc40-p\x8b\xd0\x95\xdb\xa6\xf7\xc2"
 >>> key.decrypt(encrypted)
'dog'



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 11 21:36:57 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:36:57 -0600
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B74BEC9.40805@tim.thechases.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> Don't use Python variables to store data long-term. Instead, setup a
> database or a file and use that. I'd first look at using a file, then
> using SQLite, and then a full-fledged database like PostgreSQL.

Just to add to the mix, I'd put the "anydbm" module on the 
gradient between "using a file" and "using sqlite".  It's a nice 
intermediate step between rolling your own file formats for data 
on disk, and having to write SQL since access is entirely like 
you'd do with a regular Python dictionary.

-tkc




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 21:38:46 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 18:38:46 -0800
Subject: timer for a function
References: <mailman.1986.1265390557.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2evm$rkl$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1986.1265390557.28905.python-list at python.org>,
mk  <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>self.conobj = paramiko.SSHClient()
>
>self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username, 
>key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
>
>2. very slow SSH host that is hanging for 30+ seconds on key exchange.
>
>The timeout in the options regards only a socket timeout, not further 
>stages of connection negotiation, so it doesn't work there.

Does paramiko offer any kind of callback?  In a similar situation with
pycurl, I built my own timer into a callback.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 21:41:27 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 18:41:27 -0800
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2 at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
hjebbers  <hjebbers at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>not copy/paste text.

In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
exactly the message that you see on the screen.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 21:44:28 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 18:44:28 -0800
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1j4a$j61$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl2fac$iaa$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hl1j4a$j61$2 at reader2.panix.com>,
Grant Edwards  <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>Didn't we just do this one last week?

Let's do the Time Warp again!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 21:47:34 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 03:47:34 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Martin P. Hellwig:
> <cut all>
> Well at least you are well written and more subtle than Xah Lee.
> Though I find him also quite amusing, I do like a good flame-war every 
> now and again, and in that perspective I solute you.

The technical discussion is now at point where one poster maintains that 
references don't exist in Python, and another poster, in support, maintains that 
"refers to" in the language spec doesn't mean "refers to" but instead means 
"refers to", whatever's that meant to mean.

As a technical discussion it's meaningless drivel.

And as an argument in that technical discussion your allegation of trolling is 
just yet another fallacy, and meaningless.

But in a social context, declaring support or placing oneself within a group, or 
for that matter "Poisoning the well", it can make sense.

This group has an extraordinary high level of flaming and personal attacks, and 
it's the only group I've seen where there are threads (I think I've seen 3, 
within the last two months, not participating in them) with the regulars 
reitererating how "friendly" the group is, how difficult it is to get flamed 
here. In other groups it's not necessary for the regulars to point out how 
friendly the group is. But then, in other groups personal attacks are rare.

And so when you mention Xah Lee I'm now wondering what is cause, and what is effect.

I was informed that he'd done extensive cross-posting, and his own web site 
seems to confirm that his ISP at one time reacted to a complaint about such 
cross-posting. I've also seen directly that he has employed pretty foul language 
in characterizing Python in an article, and even without that language negative 
loaded characterizations without any evidence to back them up (like, for 
example, yours above) must be considered intentional flame bait. But did it 
start that way for Xah Lee?

I'm not going to check the archives. It's enough, wrt. the point I'm making 
about some regulars of the group, that even with such evidence of active 
trolling at hand  --  ISP reaction to cross-posting, needless foul language, 
unsubstantiated characterizations  --  based on my experience here I think it's 
just as likely that it started out by Xah Lee being flamed, perhaps repeatedly, 
with personal attacks and by group action. Or perhaps it didn't, but at this 
point it would not surprise me in the slightest.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 11 22:41:21 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:41:21 -0800
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net> <4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2393.1265914399.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>> The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years
>> before WW2 started....
> I believe that all of Enigma was eventually cracked cos of two major
> flaws.

I think it never would have been cracked if it hadn't been cracked
(whether by the Brits or the Poles) before the war started, using
commercial versions of the Enigma that they had access to.  The military
Enigma and its operating methods got more sophisticated as the war went
on, and the cryptanalysts were able to keep up with it by incrementally
improving techniques that they were already using at scale.  If they
were suddenly confronted with the full-blown military system in the
middle of the war, it would have been a lot harder to do anything about
it.  At least, most of the Enigma-related books I've read give that
impression and even come out and say such things.

> Further, the far more powerful Geheimscreiber was also cracked at
> Bletchley by using Colossus.  Sorry some years since I read the book
> about this so can't remember the title or author.

See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
That was almost at the end of the war though.  


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 23:58:02 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 20:58:02 -0800
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>
>Just to add to the mix, I'd put the "anydbm" module on the gradient
>between "using a file" and "using sqlite".  It's a nice intermediate
>step between rolling your own file formats for data on disk, and having
>to write SQL since access is entirely like you'd do with a regular
>Python dictionary.

Not quite.  One critical difference between dbm and dicts is the need to
remember to "save" changes by setting the key's valud again.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 00:16:59 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 21:16:59 -0800
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
References: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2017.1265411978.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2o8b$3t8$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2017.1265411978.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>No. That's not how you pass commands to sqlite3 - you connect to a
>database, create a cursor on the connection, and then execute SQL
>statements (not sqlite commands) on the cursor. Like this:
>
>>>> import sqlite3
>>>> c = sqlite3.connect("deleteme")
>>>> cu = c.cursor()
>>>> cu.execute(".help")
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>sqlite3.OperationalError: near ".": syntax error
>>>> cu.execute("""\
>... CREATE TABLE test(
>...   a int primary key,
>...   b varchar)""")
><sqlite3.Cursor object at 0x01FD4740>
>>>>
>
>As you can see, the cursor's execute() method expects SQL statements.

However, it may not be obvious that some things that don't look like SQL
are.  For example, "pragma integrity_check".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 00:18:26 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 21:18:26 -0800
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2ob2$3ib$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>
>Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the difference  
>is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).

Perhaps, but I've also found that ctrl-C doesn't work on Windows.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 12 00:31:14 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:31:14 -0500
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <op.u7zk7es9x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<op.u7zk7es9x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <hl2p30$5dg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 6:36 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> This is simple to implement, but requires changing the function
> definition. My goal was to keep the original code unchanged, that is,
> leave it as:
>
> def f(n):
> if n > 0: return n*f(n-1)
> elif n==0: return 1
>
> (like a normal, recursive function), and make the 'f' inside the function
> body "magically" refer to the function itself.

Someone did this several years ago with a bytecode hack. I believe it 
was in the cookbook. It was rejected as part of standard CPython.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 12 00:48:30 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:48:30 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl2q3c$75q$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 9:41 PM, Aahz wrote:
> In article<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2 at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
> hjebbers<hjebbers at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>> not copy/paste text.

I think I know what box you mean. I believe this happened  about 18 
months ago with IDLE before 3.0 was released. Something to do with MS 
VC, which is different from gcc used on *nix.

> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
> exactly the message that you see on the screen.




From frank at chagford.com  Fri Feb 12 01:59:54 2010
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:59:54 +0200
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr><mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org><4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr><mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2ob2$3ib$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl2u9l$fe4$1@ger.gmane.org>


"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message 
news:hl2ob2$3ib$1 at panix5.panix.com...
> In article <mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>>
>>Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the difference
>>is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).
>
> Perhaps, but I've also found that ctrl-C doesn't work on Windows.

I don't know if this is exactly the same, but FWIW ...

I had the following, in a test program -

    from wsgiref.simple_server import make_server

    myserver = MyServer()
    httpd = make_server('', 7789, myserver)
    httpd.serve_forever()

    try:
        while True:
            sleep(1)
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        httpd.shutdown()

I could not get it to respond to Ctrl-C.

Then I read somewhere that it must run in a separate thread, so I changed it 
like this -

-   httpd.serve_forever()
+   threading.Thread(target=httpd.serve_forever).start()

Now it does respond to Ctrl-C.

HTH

Frank Millman




From bob.martin at excite.com  Fri Feb 12 02:16:01 2010
From: bob.martin at excite.com (Bob Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:16:01 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Re7dn.39071$Ym4.13458@text.news.virginmedia.com>

in 144446 20100212 034121 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:

>See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
>That was almost at the end of the war though.

Colossus was working by the end of 1943 - the year that the Americans first dropped
bombs on Germany   ;-)


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 12 02:29:12 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:29:12 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

> En Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:25:00 -0300, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>
> escribi?:
>> On 2/10/2010 4:49 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>>
>>> I've written a decorator for "injecting" a __function__ name into the
>>> function namespace, but I can't find it anywhere. I think I implemented
>>> it by adding a fake additional argument and replacing LOAD_GLOBAL with
>>> LOAD_NAME in the bytecode.
>>
>> The decorator only needs to replace the defaults args tuple.
>> It does not even need to know the parameter name,
>> just that it is the only (or last) with a default .
>>
>> def f(n, me=None):
>>      if n > 0: return n*me(n-1)
>>      elif n==0: return 1
>>
>> f.__defaults__ = (f,) # 3.1
>> print(f(5))
>
> This is simple to implement, but requires changing the function
> definition. My goal was to keep the original code unchanged, that is,
> leave it as:
>
> def f(n):
>        if n > 0: return n*f(n-1)
>        elif n==0: return 1
>
> (like a normal, recursive function), and make the 'f' inside the function
> body "magically" refer to the function itself.

I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
couple of days ago:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html

It doesn't require any bytecode hacking, although it requires breaking
apart the function object and making a new one from the bits.

-- 
Arnaud


From javier.collado at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 02:59:44 2010
From: javier.collado at gmail.com (Javier Collado)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:59:44 +0100
Subject: python and http POST
In-Reply-To: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c83cde5a1002112359u3153ff29r12c28ff094a78805@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I haven't used httplib2, but you can certainly use any other
alternative to send HTTP requests:
- urllib/urllib2
- mechanize

With regard to how do you find the form you're looking for, you may:
- create the HTTP request on your own with urllib2. To find out what
variables do you need to post, you can use tamperdata Firefox addon as
suggested (I haven't used that one) or httpfox (I have and it works
great).
- use mechanize to locate the form for you, fill the data in and click
on the submit button.

Additionally, you may wan to scrape some data that may be useful for
your requests. For that BeautifulSoup is good solution (with some
Firebug help to visually locate what you're looking for).

Best regards,
    Javier

P.S. Some examples here:
http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python
http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python-part-2

2010/2/11 galileo228 <mattbarkan at gmail.com>:
> Hey All,
>
> Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> result.
>
> I'm using httplib2.
>
> My two particular questions:
>
> 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> key?
>
> 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> 'submit' the search?
>
> Thanks all!
>
> Matt
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Fri Feb 12 04:40:20 2010
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 11:40:20 +0200
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
	<mailman.2409.1265928746.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotr5oqssfv.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Terry Reedy writes:
> On 2/11/2010 11:23 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> > Robert Kern writes:
> >> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> >>> There is a little issue here that '>>>  -.1 ** .1' should give you
> >>> error message. That is it.
> >>
> >> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
> >> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
> >> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.
> >
> > Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time.
> 
> You forgot the smiley ;-).
> 
>  > The error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).
> 
> The compiler would never see the difference between -.1 ** .1 and the
> first and probably no difference with the second either.

It could be done the same way that the compiler keeps track of the
source line numbers now: early phases annotate their output with any
information that later phases may need. This error would be detected
during syntactic analysis.

:)


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 12 04:46:29 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:46:29 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit :
(snip)
> This group has an extraordinary high level of flaming and personal 
> attacks

Oh my...

(snip remaining non-sense)

Mr Steinbach, I bet you'll count this as another "flaming" and "personal 
attack", but nonetheless : you might have happier time if you were able 
to understand the distinction between disagreement and "personal attack".

(now back to more interesting readings)


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 12 05:33:19 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:33:19 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <Re7dn.39071$Ym4.13458@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Re7dn.39071$Ym4.13458@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <4B752E6F.5070305@sequans.com>

Bob Martin wrote:
> in 144446 20100212 034121 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>   
>> See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
>> That was almost at the end of the war though.
>>     
>
> Colossus was working by the end of 1943 - the year that the Americans first dropped
> bombs on Germany   ;-)
>   
sept 1939 - sept 1945. It's nearer from the end, than from the begining.

JM


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 12 05:42:07 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:42:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com> 
	<mailman.2396.1265915711.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1d2a3c99-4837-45f8-8af0-73a155011686@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 7:12?pm, mk <mrk... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
> > try:
> > ? ?...
> > except socket.error:
> > ? ?...
>
> > #untested
> > import socket
>
> > class SocketWrapper:
> > ? ? def __getattr__(self, name):
> > ? ? ? ? return getattr(socket, name)
> > ? ? error = None
>
> > import module_using_socket
> > module_using_socket.socket = SocketWrapper()
>
> Very interesting solution. Thanks!
>
> Regards,
> mk

On Feb 11, 2:12 pm, mk <mrk... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
> > try:
> >    ...
> > except socket.error:
> >    ...
>
> > #untested
> > import socket
>
> > class SocketWrapper:
> >     def __getattr__(self, name):
> >         return getattr(socket, name)
> >     error = None
>
> > import module_using_socket
> > module_using_socket.socket = SocketWrapper()
>
> Very interesting solution. Thanks!
>
> Regards,
> mk

You could refine Peter's suggestion further. For example, if you don't
want to change the flow of execution (as Peter's suggestion does) but
just log the occurrences, then you could try something like this:

# socktest.py

import socket

def test():
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    try:
        s.connect(('localhost', 9999))
    except socket.error, e:
        print '-- handler printing:', e

# sockwrap.py

import socket
import traceback
import logging

class SocketWrapper:
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return getattr(socket, name)

    @property
    def error(self):
        # In practice you could log to a specific logger
        logging.exception('A socket error occurred')
        return getattr(socket, 'error')

def wrap(mod):
    mod.socket = SocketWrapper()

# Now try it out

>>> import socktest, sockwrap
>>> sockwrap.wrap(socktest)
>>> socktest.test()
ERROR:root:A socket error occurred
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "socktest.py", line 7, in test
    s.connect(('localhost', 9999))
  File "<string>", line 1, in connect
error: (10061, 'Connection refused')
-- handler printing: (10061, 'Connection refused')
>>>

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 05:56:19 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:56:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 3:41?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>
> hjebbers ?<hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
> >not copy/paste text.
>
> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just ? ? ? ?
> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"

The message on the screen is (I typed it over):

**************************************************************************************
python.exe

python.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close.
We are sorry for the inconvenience.

If you were in the middle of something, the information you were
working on might be
lost

For more information about the error,   click here.

                                                            <close-
button>
***************************************************************************************
the information about the error is a windows dump.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb 12 07:10:26 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 12:10:26 GMT
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1D7BD4F1EDCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> You could try to shadow the exception class with None:
> 
>>>> ZeroDivisionError = None
>>>> try:
> ...     1/0
> ... except ZeroDivisionError:
> ...     print "caught"
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
> ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero
> 

This works in Python 2.x but will break in Python 3. None is not a valid 
exception specification and Python 3 will check for that and complain.

>>> ZeroDivisionError = None
>>> try:
...     1/0
... except ZeroDivisionError:
...     print('caught')
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
ZeroDivisionError: int division or modulo by zero

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in <module>
TypeError: catching classes that do not inherit from BaseException is 
not allowed
>>>

A better solution is to use an empty tuple as that is a valid exception 
specification so will work in both Python 2.x and 3.x:

>>> ZeroDivisionError = ()
>>> try:
...     1/0
... except ZeroDivisionError:
...     print('caught')
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
ZeroDivisionError: int division or modulo by zero


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb 12 07:15:41 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:15:41 -0600
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B75466D.6040706@tim.thechases.com>

Aahz wrote:
> Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>> Just to add to the mix, I'd put the "anydbm" module on the gradient
>> between "using a file" and "using sqlite".  It's a nice intermediate
>> step between rolling your own file formats for data on disk, and having
>> to write SQL since access is entirely like you'd do with a regular
>> Python dictionary.
> 
> Not quite.  One critical difference between dbm and dicts is the need to
> remember to "save" changes by setting the key's valud again.

Could you give an example of this?  I'm not sure I understand 
what you're saying.  I've used anydbm a bunch of times and other 
than wrapping access in

   d = anydbm.open(DB_NAME, "c")
   # use d as a dict here
   d.close()

and I've never hit any "need to remember to save changes by 
setting the key's value again".  The only gotcha I've hit is the 
anydbm requirement that all keys/values be strings.  Slightly 
annoying at times, but my most frequent use case.

-tkc





From prakash.stack at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 07:17:52 2010
From: prakash.stack at gmail.com (prakash jp)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:47:52 +0530
Subject: search entire drive say c:
Message-ID: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive (windows)
and print the path/s stating such a files presence.

Thanks in advance

Regards
Prakash
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Feb 12 07:36:42 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:36:42 +0000
Subject: search entire drive say c:
In-Reply-To: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B754B5A.3000405@timgolden.me.uk>

On 12/02/2010 12:17, prakash jp wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive (windows)
> and print the path/s stating such a files presence.

This sounds rather like homework...

Have a look at os.walk

TJG


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb 12 08:01:12 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:01:12 -0600
Subject: search entire drive say c:
In-Reply-To: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B755118.7090706@tim.thechases.com>

> can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive (windows)
> and print the path/s stating such a files presence.

Well, you can just do it from DOS:

   c:\> dir /s/b/a abc.txt

Just use os.walk() and check the list of files returned at each 
directory-level iteration.

   ROOT = "c:\\"
   fname = "abc.txt".lower()
   for p, d, f in os.walk(ROOT):
     for fn in f:
       if fn.lower() == fname:
         print os.path.join(p, f)
         # break

You might also investigate using os.path.normcase() instead of 
.lower()

-tkc




From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 12 08:06:07 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:06:07 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>

hjebbers wrote:
> On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>   
>> In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> hjebbers  <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>>> not copy/paste text.
>>>       
>> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
>> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
>> --
>> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com)           <*>        http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>
>> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
>> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>>     
>
> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>
> <snip>

You shouldn't ever have to retype the message.  Just paste from the DOS 
box (or "Command Prompt").  It's easy using QuickEdit mode.

You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then 
using right-click to put it in the clipboard.

If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode.  Use 
right-click on the DOS box's title bar.  Choose Properties.  Select the 
first tab, which is Options.

You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode".  Turn it 
on, and you won't have this problem again.

DaveA



From simon at brunningonline.net  Fri Feb 12 08:21:26 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:21:26 +0000
Subject: search entire drive say c:
In-Reply-To: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002120521x3a820074r6765cc4622f912ca@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 February 2010 12:17, prakash jp <prakash.stack at gmail.com> wrote:

> can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive (windows)
> and print?the path/s stating such a files presence.

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/499305/ might be a useful start.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 08:32:05 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:32:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2429.1265979984.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c03edfbb-7dbd-443e-869e-882a2c89af52@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 2:06?pm, Dave Angel <da... at ieee.org> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
> >> In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >> hjebbers ?<hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
> >>> not copy/paste text.
>
> >> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
> >> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
> >> --
> >> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> >> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just ? ? ? ?
> >> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>
> > The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>
> > <snip>
>
> You shouldn't ever have to retype the message. ?Just paste from the DOS
> box (or "Command Prompt"). ?It's easy using QuickEdit mode.
>
> You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then
> using right-click to put it in the clipboard.
>
> If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode. ?Use
> right-click on the DOS box's title bar. ?Choose Properties. ?Select the
> first tab, which is Options.
>
> You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode". ?Turn it
> on, and you won't have this problem again.
>
> DaveA

Hi Dave,

thanks.
but the message is not in the DOS box (or "Command Prompt").
I do run the program in a DOS box (or "Command Prompt"), but the error
is a windows dialog box.
I can not select in this dialog box.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 08:34:40 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:34:40 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4B7558F0.5090403@holdenweb.com>

Dave Angel wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>  
>>> In article
>>> <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> hjebbers  <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>>>> not copy/paste text.
>>>>       
>>> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
>>> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
>>> -- 
>>> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com)           <*>       
>>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>
>>> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and
>>> just        refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>>>     
>>
>> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>>
>> <snip>
> 
> You shouldn't ever have to retype the message.  Just paste from the DOS
> box (or "Command Prompt").  It's easy using QuickEdit mode.
> 
> You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then
> using right-click to put it in the clipboard.
> 
> If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode.  Use
> right-click on the DOS box's title bar.  Choose Properties.  Select the
> first tab, which is Options.
> 
> You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode".  Turn it
> on, and you won't have this problem again.
> 
> DaveA
> 
Dave:

I think you miss the point: this message is being displayed in a Windows
error message dialog box, not in the command window.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 08:34:40 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:34:40 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4B7558F0.5090403@holdenweb.com>

Dave Angel wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>  
>>> In article
>>> <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> hjebbers  <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>>>> not copy/paste text.
>>>>       
>>> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
>>> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
>>> -- 
>>> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com)           <*>       
>>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>
>>> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and
>>> just        refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>>>     
>>
>> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>>
>> <snip>
> 
> You shouldn't ever have to retype the message.  Just paste from the DOS
> box (or "Command Prompt").  It's easy using QuickEdit mode.
> 
> You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then
> using right-click to put it in the clipboard.
> 
> If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode.  Use
> right-click on the DOS box's title bar.  Choose Properties.  Select the
> first tab, which is Options.
> 
> You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode".  Turn it
> on, and you won't have this problem again.
> 
> DaveA
> 
Dave:

I think you miss the point: this message is being displayed in a Windows
error message dialog box, not in the command window.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From eknath.iyer at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 08:41:40 2010
From: eknath.iyer at gmail.com (Eknath Venkataramani)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:41:40 -0500
Subject: pyparsing wrong output
Message-ID: <692c428f1002120541n6b3aabb0jb62c50f90715f38e@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to write a parser in pyparsing.
Help Me. http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177078/ is the code and this is input
file: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177076/ .
I get output as:
<generator object at 0xb723b80c>
*
*
-- 
Eknath Venkataramani
+91-9844952442
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From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb 12 08:53:02 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:53:02 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Xns9D1D7BD4F1EDCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hl3mfc$olu$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> 
>> You could try to shadow the exception class with None:

> This works in Python 2.x but will break in Python 3. None is not a valid
> exception specification and Python 3 will check for that and complain.

> A better solution is to use an empty tuple as that is a valid exception
> specification so will work in both Python 2.x and 3.x:

Out of curiosity I tried a custom __subclasscheck__, but didn't get it to 
work in 3.1:

$ cat instance_check.py
class ZeroDivisionError(BaseException):
    class __metaclass__(type):
        def __subclasscheck__(self, other):
            print "performing subclass check --> %s" % catch
            return catch

if __name__ == "__main__":
    for catch in [True, False]:
        print "catch = %s" % catch
        try:
            1/0
        except ZeroDivisionError:
            print "caught"

$ python2.6 instance_check.py
catch = True
performing subclass check --> True
caught
catch = False
performing subclass check --> False
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "instance_check.py", line 11, in <module>
    1/0
ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero
$

Peter


From ljz at asfast.com  Fri Feb 12 09:01:20 2010
From: ljz at asfast.com (Lloyd Zusman)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:01:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
Message-ID: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>

Perl has the following constructs to check whether a file is considered
to contain "text" or "binary" data:

if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }

Is there already a Python analog to these? I'm happy to write them on
my own if no such constructs currently exist, but before I start, I'd
like to make sure that I'm not "re-inventing the wheel".

By the way, here's what the perl docs say about these constructs. I'm
looking for something similar in Python:

... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz at asfast.com
 God bless you.




From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 09:09:58 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:09:58 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B756136.3070202@cheimes.de>

hjebbers wrote:
> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
> 
> **************************************************************************************
> python.exe
> 
> python.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close.
> We are sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> If you were in the middle of something, the information you were
> working on might be
> lost
> 
> For more information about the error,   click here.
> 
>                                                             <close-
> button>
> ***************************************************************************************
> the information about the error is a windows dump.

I suggest you install some sort of debugger on your system (e.g. Visual
Studio) and do a post mortem analysis of your stack trace.

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 09:14:07 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:14:07 +0100
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>

Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> .... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
> .... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
> .... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
> .... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
> .... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
> .... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

That's a butt ugly heuristic that will lead to lots of false positives
if your text happens to be UTF-16 encoded or non-english text UTF-8 encoded.

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 09:14:07 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:14:07 +0100
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>

Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> .... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
> .... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
> .... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
> .... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
> .... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
> .... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

That's a butt ugly heuristic that will lead to lots of false positives
if your text happens to be UTF-16 encoded or non-english text UTF-8 encoded.

Christian



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb 12 09:17:04 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:17:04 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>

hjebbers wrote:

> On Feb 11, 7:01 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>> hjebbers wrote:
>> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
>> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>>
>> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
>> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
>> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
>> > (where is the bug?)
>>
>> In the platform-specific code ;)
>>
>> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...
> 
> if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
> bugreport?

A this stage a bug report would be useless. The details you have provided so 
far don't give anyone without physical access to your machine a chance to 
reproduce the error.

> (because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
> doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)

Indeed. The culprit may be an extension written in C that is overwriting 
memory still in use by other parts of your program.

Peter


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 12 09:18:24 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:18:24 -0800
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002120618u1d3cacccx45a0f209313b220@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:01 AM, Lloyd Zusman <ljz at asfast.com> wrote:
> Perl has the following constructs to check whether a file is considered
> to contain "text" or "binary" data:
>
> if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
> if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }
>
> Is there already a Python analog to these? I'm happy to write them on
> my own if no such constructs currently exist, but before I start, I'd
> like to make sure that I'm not "re-inventing the wheel".
>
> By the way, here's what the perl docs say about these constructs. I'm
> looking for something similar in Python:
>
> ... The -T ?and -B ?switches work as follows. The first block or so
> ... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
> ... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
> ... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
> ... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
> ... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

Pray tell, what are the circumstances that lead you to use such a
heuristic rather than a more definitive method?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From simon at brunningonline.net  Fri Feb 12 09:18:54 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:18:54 +0000
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
	<4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002120618r611ea8dfj4d2f4bbaf25a920@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 February 2010 14:14, Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de> wrote:
> That's a butt ugly heuristic

He did say it was from Perl, the home of butt-ugly.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 09:21:19 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 06:21:19 -0800
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2426.1265976954.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl3o4v$spg$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2426.1265976954.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just to add to the mix, I'd put the "anydbm" module on the gradient
>>> between "using a file" and "using sqlite".  It's a nice intermediate
>>> step between rolling your own file formats for data on disk, and having
>>> to write SQL since access is entirely like you'd do with a regular
>>> Python dictionary.
>> 
>> Not quite.  One critical difference between dbm and dicts is the need to
>> remember to "save" changes by setting the key's valud again.
>
>Could you give an example of this?  I'm not sure I understand 
>what you're saying.  I've used anydbm a bunch of times and other 
>than wrapping access in
>
>   d = anydbm.open(DB_NAME, "c")
>   # use d as a dict here
>   d.close()
>
>and I've never hit any "need to remember to save changes by 
>setting the key's value again".  The only gotcha I've hit is the 
>anydbm requirement that all keys/values be strings.  Slightly 
>annoying at times, but my most frequent use case.

Well, you're more likely to hit this by wrapping dbm with shelve (because
it's a little more obvious when you're using pickle directly), but
consider this:

    d = anydbm.open(DB_NAME, "c")
    x = MyClass()
    d['foo'] = x
    x.bar = 123

Your dbm does NOT have the change to x.bar recorded, you must do this
again:

    d['foo'] = x

With a dict, you have Python's reference semantics.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 09:22:40 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 06:22:40 -0800
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2ob2$3ib$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2422.1265961504.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl3o7g$l12$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2422.1265961504.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 11 Feb 2010 21:18:26 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>> In article <mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list at python.org>,
>> Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>>>
>>>Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the difference  
>>>is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).
>> 
>> Perhaps, but I've also found that ctrl-C doesn't work on Windows.
>
>	Unless the running program makes an I/O call to the console, I don't
>think <ctrl-c> gets past the device driver... <G>

That's probably it.  It's more annoying for me because I run Windows with
a VM on a Mac, which doesn't have ctrl-break.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 09:26:51 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 06:26:51 -0800
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
References: <mailman.2434.1265983307.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl3ofb$cne$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2434.1265983307.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Lloyd Zusman  <ljz at asfast.com> wrote:
>
>Perl has the following constructs to check whether a file is considered
>to contain "text" or "binary" data:
>
>if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
>if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }

Assuming you're on a Unix-like system or can install Cygwin, the
standard response is to use the "file" command.  It's *much* more
sophisticated.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From prakash.stack at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 09:33:18 2010
From: prakash.stack at gmail.com (prakash jp)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:03:18 +0530
Subject: search entire drive say c:
In-Reply-To: <4B755118.7090706@tim.thechases.com>
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B755118.7090706@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <805f59d51002120633h387323dcjb9be71e5955536cd@mail.gmail.com>

Thank u Tim Case,

all,

Also how to run the standalone generated from script taking unc path names
to account

regards
Prakash

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

>  can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive
>> (windows)
>> and print the path/s stating such a files presence.
>>
>
> Well, you can just do it from DOS:
>
>  c:\> dir /s/b/a abc.txt
>
> Just use os.walk() and check the list of files returned at each
> directory-level iteration.
>
>  ROOT = "c:\\"
>  fname = "abc.txt".lower()
>  for p, d, f in os.walk(ROOT):
>    for fn in f:
>      if fn.lower() == fname:
>        print os.path.join(p, f)
>        # break
>
> You might also investigate using os.path.normcase() instead of .lower()
>
> -tkc
>
>
>
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 12 09:39:22 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:39:22 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4b7567fe$0$13293$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Peter Otten a ?crit :
(snip)
> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...

Muhahahahaha !-)
+1 QOTW


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb 12 09:45:17 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:45:17 -0600
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75697D.5040403@tim.thechases.com>

Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> Perl has the following constructs to check whether a file is considered
> to contain "text" or "binary" data:
> 
> if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
> if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }
> 
> Is there already a Python analog to these? I'm happy to write them on
> my own if no such constructs currently exist, but before I start, I'd
> like to make sure that I'm not "re-inventing the wheel".
> 
> By the way, here's what the perl docs say about these constructs. I'm
> looking for something similar in Python:
> 
> ... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
> ... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
> ... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
> ... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
> ... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
> ... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

While I agree with the others who have responded along the lines 
of "that's a hinky heuristic", it's not too hard to write an analog:

   import string
   def is_text(fname,
       chars=set(string.printable),
       threshold=0.3,
       portion=1024, # read a kilobyte to find out
       mode='rb',
       ):
     assert portion is None or portion > 0
     assert 0 < threshold < 1
     f = file(fname, mode)
     if portion is None:
       content = iter(f)
     else:
       content = iter(f.read(int(portion)))
     f.close()
     total = valid = 0
     for c in content:
       if c in chars:
         valid += 1
       total += 1
     return (float(valid)/total) > threshold

   def is_bin(*args, **kwargs):
     return not is_text(*args, **kwargs)

   for fname in (
       '/usr/bin/abiword',
       '/home/tkc/.bashrc',
       ):
     print fname, is_text(fname)

It should allow you to tweak the charset to consider "text", 
defaulting to string.printable, but adjust the "text" chars and 
the file-reading-mode accordingly if you're using unicode text 
(perhaps inverting the logic to make it an "binary chars" set). 
You can also change the threshold from 0.3 (30%) to whatever you 
need, and test the entire file or a subset of it (this defaults 
to just reading the first K of the file, but if you pass None for 
the portion, it will read the whole thing, even if it's a TB file).

-tkc







From jlconlin at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 09:45:31 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:45:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 6:50?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:09 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> > My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> > MemoryError. ?I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not 2GB
> > worth.
>
> Are you sure?
>
> Keep in mind that Python has a comparatively high overhead due to its
> object-oriented nature. If you have a list of characters:
>
> ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
>
> there is the (small) overhead of the list structure itself, but each
> individual character is not a single byte, but a relatively large object:
>
> ?>>> sys.getsizeof('a')
> 32
>
> So if you read (say) a 500MB file into a single giant string, you will
> have 500MB plus the overhead of a single string object (which is
> negligible). But if you read it into a list of 500 million single
> characters, you will have the overhead of a single list, plus 500 million
> strings, and that's *not* negligible: 32 bytes each instead of 1.
>
> So try to avoid breaking a single huge strings into vast numbers of tiny
> strings all at once.
>
> > I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation in
> > Python because of the garbage collector.
>
> You don't have to worry about explicitly allocating memory, and you
> almost never have to worry about explicitly freeing memory (unless you
> are making objects that, directly or indirectly, contain themselves --
> see below); but unless you have an infinite amount of RAM available of
> course you can run out of memory if you use it all up :)
>
> > On this note I have a few
> > questions. ?FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.
>
> > 1. ? ?When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it copy
> > that variable or is it just a reference/pointer? ?I was under the
> > impression that it was just a pointer to the data.
>
> Python's calling model is the same whether you pass to a class
> constructor or any other function or method:
>
> x = ["some", "data"]
> obj = f(x)
>
> The function f (which might be a class constructor) sees the exact same
> list as you assigned to x -- the list is not copied first. However,
> there's no promise made about what f does with that list -- it might copy
> the list, or make one or more additional lists:
>
> def f(a_list):
> ? ? another_copy = a_list[:]
> ? ? another_list = map(int, a_list)
>
> > 2. ? ?When do I need
> > to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when can I trust Python to
> > take care of it?
>
> You never need to manually allocate memory.
>
> You *may* need to deallocate memory if you make "reference loops", where
> one object refers to itself:
>
> l = [] ?# make an empty list
> l.append(l) ?# add the list l to itself
>
> Python can break such simple reference loops itself, but for more
> complicated ones, you may need to break them yourself:
>
> a = []
> b = {2: a}
> c = (None, b)
> d = [1, 'z', c]
> a.append(d) ?# a reference loop
>
> Python will deallocate objects when they are no longer in use. They are
> always considered in use any time you have them assigned to a name, or in
> a list or dict or other structure which is in use.
>
> You can explicitly remove a name with the del command. For example:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> del x
>
> After deleting the name x, the list object itself is no longer in use
> anywhere and Python will deallocate it. But consider:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> y = x ?# y now refers to THE SAME list object
> del x
>
> Although you have deleted the name x, the list object is still bound to
> the name y, and so Python will *not* deallocate the list.
>
> Likewise:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> y = [None, 1, x, 'hello world']
> del x
>
> Although now the list isn't bound to a name, it is inside another list,
> and so Python will not deallocate it.
>
> > 3. ? ?Any good practice suggestions?
>
> Write small functions. Any temporary objects created by the function will
> be automatically deallocated when the function returns.
>
> Avoid global variables. They are a good way to inadvertently end up with
> multiple long-lasting copies of data.
>
> Try to keep data in one big piece rather than lots of little pieces.
>
> But contradicting the above, if the one big piece is too big, it will be
> hard for the operating system to swap it in and out of virtual memory,
> causing thrashing, which is *really* slow. So aim for big, but not huge.
>
> (By "big" I mean megabyte-sized; by "huge" I mean hundreds of megabytes.)
>
> If possible, avoid reading the entire file in at once, and instead
> process it line-by-line.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --
> Steven

Wow, what a great bunch of responses.  Thank you very much.  If I
understand correctly the suggestions seem to be:
1.    Write algorithms to read a file one line at a time instead of
reading the whole thing
2.    Use lots of little functions so that memory can fall out of
scope.

You also confirmed what I thought was true that all variables are
passed "by reference" so I don't need to worry about the data being
copied (unless I do that explicitly).

Thanks!
Jeremy


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb 12 09:54:27 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:54:27 -0600
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl3o4v$spg$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.2426.1265976954.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl3o4v$spg$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B756BA3.3090408@tim.thechases.com>

Aahz wrote:
>>> Not quite.  One critical difference between dbm and dicts
>>> is the need to remember to "save" changes by setting the
>>> key's valud again.
>> 
>> Could you give an example of this?  I'm not sure I
>> understand what you're saying.
> 
> Well, you're more likely to hit this by wrapping dbm with shelve (because
> it's a little more obvious when you're using pickle directly), but
> consider this:
> 
>     d = anydbm.open(DB_NAME, "c")
>     x = MyClass()
>     d['foo'] = x
>     x.bar = 123
> 
> Your dbm does NOT have the change to x.bar recorded, you must do this
> again:
> 
>     d['foo'] = x
> 
> With a dict, you have Python's reference semantics.

Ah, that makes sense...fallout of the "dbm only does string 
keys/values".  It try to adhere to the "only use strings", so I'm 
more cognizant of when I martial complex data-types in or out of 
those strings.  But I can see where it could bite a person.

Thanks,

-tkc






From edreamleo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 10:09:47 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:09:47 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7 rc1 released
Message-ID: <8pran590ve55gaasfur10pv4jbcuvvr6pi@4ax.com>

Leo 4.7 release candidate 1 is now available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106

Leo 4.7 rc 1 fixes all known serious bugs in Leo; minor nits remain.

Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more.
See: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

The highlights of Leo 4.7:
--------------------------

- Leo now uses the simplest possible internal data model.
  This is the so-called "one-node" world.
- Leo supports Python 3.x.
- Leo requires Python 2.6 or above.
- Several important improvements in file handling.
    - Leo converts @file nodes to @thin nodes automatically.
    - Leo creates a 'Recovered Nodes' node to hold data that
      otherwise might be lost due to clone conflicts.
    - @auto-rst now works much more reliably reliably.
    - Leo no longer supports @noref trees.  Such trees are not
      reliable in cooperative environments.
- A new Windows installer.
- Many other features, including new command line options and new
plugins.
- Dozens of bug fixes.

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Forum:    http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
Bzr:      http://code.launchpad.net/leo-editor/
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html

Edward K. Ream
February 12, 2010


From bob.martin at excite.com  Fri Feb 12 10:13:07 2010
From: bob.martin at excite.com (Bob Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:13:07 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2425.1265970808.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7eedn.39244$Ym4.2333@text.news.virginmedia.com>

in 144460 20100212 103319 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
>Bob Martin wrote:
>> in 144446 20100212 034121 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
>>> That was almost at the end of the war though.
>>>
>>
>> Colossus was working by the end of 1943 - the year that the Americans first dropped
>> bombs on Germany   ;-)
>>
>sept 1939 - sept 1945. It's nearer from the end, than from the begining.

If I must spell it out  ;-)
Near the end for us Brits but the Americans were only just getting into the action
in Europe.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 12 10:39:37 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:39:37 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>	<mailman.2393.1265914399.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hl3snh$i1v$1@ger.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>> The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years
>>> before WW2 started....
>> I believe that all of Enigma was eventually cracked cos of two major
>> flaws.
> 
> I think it never would have been cracked if it hadn't been cracked
> (whether by the Brits or the Poles) before the war started, using
> commercial versions of the Enigma that they had access to.  The military
> Enigma and its operating methods got more sophisticated as the war went
> on, and the cryptanalysts were able to keep up with it by incrementally
> improving techniques that they were already using at scale.  If they
> were suddenly confronted with the full-blown military system in the
> middle of the war, it would have been a lot harder to do anything about
> it.  At least, most of the Enigma-related books I've read give that
> impression and even come out and say such things.
I completely agree.
> 
>> Further, the far more powerful Geheimscreiber was also cracked at
>> Bletchley by using Colossus.  Sorry some years since I read the book
>> about this so can't remember the title or author.
> 
> See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
> That was almost at the end of the war though.  



From macmanes at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 11:06:41 2010
From: macmanes at gmail.com (PeroMHC)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:06:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: concatenate fasta file
Message-ID: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hi All, I have  a simple problem that I hope somebody can help with. I
have an input file (a fasta file) that I need to edit..

Input file format

>name 1
tactcatacatac
>name 2
acggtggcat
>name 3
gggtaccacgtt

I need to concatenate the sequences.. make them look like

>concatenated
tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt

thanks. Matt


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 12 11:08:34 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:08:34 -0500
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <qotr5oqssfv.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>	<qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>	<mailman.2409.1265928746.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotr5oqssfv.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <hl3udv$l95$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/12/2010 4:40 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Terry Reedy writes:
>> On 2/11/2010 11:23 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>>> Robert Kern writes:
>>>> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>>>> There is a little issue here that '>>>   -.1 ** .1' should give you
>>>>> error message. That is it.
>>>>
>>>> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
>>>> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
>>>> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time.
>>
>> You forgot the smiley ;-).
>>
>>   >  The error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).
>>
>> The compiler would never see the difference between -.1 ** .1 and the
>> first and probably no difference with the second either.
>
> It could be done the same way that the compiler keeps track of the
> source line numbers now: early phases annotate their output with any
> information that later phases may need. This error would be detected
> during syntactic analysis.

There is no error to detect. Sorry, read the manual and either learn or 
lookup precedence rules (there is a table in the end of the Expressions 
chapter) or use parentheses when not sure.




From roy at panix.com  Fri Feb 12 11:23:54 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:23:54 -0500
Subject: concatenate fasta file
References: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-83F0AE.11235412022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article 
<62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8 at b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
 PeroMHC <macmanes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All, I have  a simple problem that I hope somebody can help with. I
> have an input file (a fasta file) that I need to edit..
> 
> Input file format
> 
> >name 1
> tactcatacatac
> >name 2
> acggtggcat
> >name 3
> gggtaccacgtt
> 
> I need to concatenate the sequences.. make them look like
> 
> >concatenated
> tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt
> 
> thanks. Matt

Some quick ideas.  First, try something along the lines of (not tested):

data=[]
for line in sys.stdin:
   if line.startswith('>'):
      continue
   data.append(line.strip())
print ''.join(data)

Second, check out http://biopython.org/wiki/Main_Page.  I'm sure somebody 
has solved this problem before.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 12 11:49:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:49:15 +0100
Subject: concatenate fasta file
In-Reply-To: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B75868B.2030807@sequans.com>

PeroMHC wrote:
> Hi All, I have  a simple problem that I hope somebody can help with. I
> have an input file (a fasta file) that I need to edit..
>
> Input file format
>
>   
>> name 1
>>     
> tactcatacatac
>   
>> name 2
>>     
> acggtggcat
>   
>> name 3
>>     
> gggtaccacgtt
>
> I need to concatenate the sequences.. make them look like
>
>   
>> concatenated
>>     
> tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt
>
> thanks. Matt
>   
A solution using regexp:

found = []
for line in open('seqfile.txt'):
    found += re.findall('^[acgtACGT]+$', line)

print found
 > ['tactcatacatac', 'acggtggcat', 'gggtaccacgtt']

print ''.join(found)
 > 'tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt'


JM


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 12 12:05:37 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:05:37 +0000
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
	<4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <4B758A61.4090606@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>> .... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
>> .... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
>> .... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
>> .... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
>> .... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
>> .... considered a binary file. [ ... ]
> 
> That's a butt ugly heuristic that will lead to lots of false positives
> if your text happens to be UTF-16 encoded or non-english text UTF-8 encoded.
> 
...or non-English Latin-1 text...


From jcquevedo84 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:08:59 2010
From: jcquevedo84 at gmail.com (Juan Carlos Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:08:59 -0400
Subject: Configuring apache to execute python scripts using mod_python handler
Message-ID: <f598914f1002120908h5f179774g6327ad0860166640@mail.gmail.com>

I configured apache to execute python scripts using mod_python
handler. I followed below mentioned steps to configure apache.

1. In http.conf I added

  <Directory "D:/softwares/Apache2.2/htdocs">
  AddHandler mod_python .py
  PythonHandler mptest
  PythonDebug On
  </Directory>

2. Then I added the line "LoadModule python_module modules/
mod_python.so" to http.conf.

Then I tried execute the python script mentioned below from browser.

from mod_python import apache
def handler(req):
req.content_type = 'text/plain'
req.write("Hello World!")
return apache.OK

Then I am getting the following error

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "D:\softwares\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python
\importer.py", line 1537, in HandlerDispatch
    default=default_handler, arg=req, silent=hlist.silent)

  File "D:\softwares\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python
\importer.py", line 1202, in _process_target
    module = import_module(module_name, path=path)

  File "D:\softwares\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python
\importer.py", line 304, in import_module
    return __import__(module_name, {}, {}, ['*'])

ImportError: No module named mptest

I am using Apache 2.2.4, python 2.5 and mod_python-3.3.1.win32-py2.5-
Apache2.2.

I am able to execute python scripts by configuring apache to execute
the cgi scripts. But I want to execute it using mod_python as it is
faster compared to cgi mode. Someone please help me on this issue.
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From simon.hibbs at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:11:38 2010
From: simon.hibbs at gmail.com (Simon Hibbs)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:11:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Generic spreadsheet interface
References: <3acdf3a7-e2eb-4a9a-bc89-7e285073a9c9@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <34982944-fa6a-45e9-86a1-4b09a5a39d6e@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>


Hi Bro, I don't know of anything like that. The spreadsheet sites I do
know of are application-specific.

http://www.python-excel.org/

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Python
http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/OpenOffice

Note that the OO.o bindings for Python are only for Python 2.3 which
is a little archaic, but it's the version I started with and should be
more than good enough for spreadsheet work. A port to 2.5 is well
underway.

You'd probably need to write your own application-specific wrapper
modules with a common API and then use those, but it's probably not as
much work as it sounds and could be developed incrementaly.
Alternatively you just write your code against one spreadsheet module,
and then write a wrapper module for the other spreadsheet API  so it
looks the same.

Simon Hibbs


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 12 12:14:26 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:14:26 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <c03edfbb-7dbd-443e-869e-882a2c89af52@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2429.1265979984.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c03edfbb-7dbd-443e-869e-882a2c89af52@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B758C72.7020901@ieee.org>

hjebbers wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2:06 pm, Dave Angel <da... at ieee.org> wrote:
>   
>> hjebbers wrote:
>>     
>>> On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>>       
>>>> In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>         
>>>> hjebbers  <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>>>>> not copy/paste text.
>>>>>           
>>>> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
>>>> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
>>>> --
>>>> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com)           <*>        http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>>         
>>>> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
>>>> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>>>>         
>>> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>>>       
>>> <snip>
>>>       
>> You shouldn't ever have to retype the message.  Just paste from the DOS
>> box (or "Command Prompt").  It's easy using QuickEdit mode.
>>
>> You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then
>> using right-click to put it in the clipboard.
>>
>> If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode.  Use
>> right-click on the DOS box's title bar.  Choose Properties.  Select the
>> first tab, which is Options.
>>
>> You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode".  Turn it
>> on, and you won't have this problem again.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> thanks.
> but the message is not in the DOS box (or "Command Prompt").
> I do run the program in a DOS box (or "Command Prompt"), but the error
> is a windows dialog box.
> I can not select in this dialog box.
>
> kind regards,
> henk-jan
>
>   
Whoops!   I agree those dialog boxes that don't support select/copy are 
a pain.   Sorry my response wasn't applicable.

DaveA


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 12 12:14:57 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 GMT
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:45:31 -0800, Jeremy wrote:

> You also confirmed what I thought was true that all variables are passed
> "by reference" so I don't need to worry about the data being copied
> (unless I do that explicitly).

No, but yes.

No, variables are not passed by reference, but yes, you don't have to 
worry about them being copied. 

You have probably been mislead into thinking that there are only two 
calling conventions possible, "pass by value" and "pass by reference". 
That is incorrect. There are many different calling conventions, and 
different groups use the same names to mean radically different things.

If a language passes variables by reference, you can write a "swap" 
function like this:

def swap(a, b):
    a, b = b, a

x = 1
y = 2
swap(x, y)
assert (x == 2) and (y==1)

But this does not work in Python, and cannot work without trickery. So 
Python absolutely is not "pass by reference".

On the other hand, if a variable is passed by value, then a copy is made 
and you can do this:

def append1(alist):
    alist.append(1)  # modify the copy
    return alist

x = []
newlist = append1(x)
assert x == []  # The old value still exists.

But this also doesn't work in Python! So Python isn't "pass by value" 
either.

What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by 
object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java 
do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference" 
and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the 
maximum amount of confusion possible.


More here:
    http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy




-- 
Steven


From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:18:23 2010
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:18:23 -0700
Subject: looking for some libraries
In-Reply-To: <9cb81f4e-e7cd-4b5d-992e-2e31f786a1da@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<9cb81f4e-e7cd-4b5d-992e-2e31f786a1da@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B758D5F.6000907@gmail.com>

rantingrick wrote:
> Well a GUI kit comes to mind. And since you did not mention a
> preference (or much really) i would suggest Tkinter in the stdlib as a
> starting point. Here is a big hint!

I think the original poster is looking for a way to automate an existing
GUI process, and screen-scrape the resulting output from this existing GUI.

He does not say what OS he is working on, so it's hard to really suggest
anything.  If he's on Windows, I'd give a look at AutoIt[1], which has
its own complete programming language.  I know with AutoIt I could click
on buttons and then scrape text from an edit box.  AutoIt probably has
the ability to write this data out to a file as well.  Not Python, but hey.

[1] http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.shtml


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 12 12:20:06 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 17:20:06 GMT
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2437.1265984074.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <038579d7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:14:07 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:

> Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>> .... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
>> .... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
>> .... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
>> .... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
>> .... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is ....
>> considered a binary file. [ ... ]
> 
> That's a butt ugly heuristic that will lead to lots of false positives
> if your text happens to be UTF-16 encoded or non-english text UTF-8
> encoded.

And a hell of a lot of false negatives if the file is binary.

The way I've always seen it, a file is binary if it contains a single 
binary character *anywhere* in the file.


-- 
Steven


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:21:07 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 3:17?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 7:01 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> >> hjebbers wrote:
> >> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> >> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>
> >> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> >> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> >> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> >> > (where is the bug?)
>
> >> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> >> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...
>
> > if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
> > bugreport?
>
> A this stage a bug report would be useless. The details you have provided so
> far don't give anyone without physical access to your machine a chance to
> reproduce the error.
>
> > (because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
> > doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)
>
> Indeed. The culprit may be an extension written in C that is overwriting
> memory still in use by other parts of your program.
>
> Peter

No C extensions used. Definitely not.

As these crashes occur during stress tests, I go to the limits of the
memory available.
What strikes me is:
1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
much).

kind regards, Henk-jan


From jcquevedo84 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:34:33 2010
From: jcquevedo84 at gmail.com (Juan Carlos Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:33 -0400
Subject: Helpp I want view page .py on apache WHAT CAN I DO???????????????
Message-ID: <f598914f1002120934u756ccadfm817da4a43e341154@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I am trying implement a text from mod_python.

I have a apahce service 2.2.4, python 2.5 and  mod_python  3.3.1

I have this mistake:

MOD_PYTHON ERROR

ProcessId:      5956
Interpreter:    '192.168.5.32'

ServerName:     '192.168.5.32'
DocumentRoot:   'D:/aplicaciones/web'

URI:            '/python/index.py'
Location:       None
Directory:      'D:/aplicaciones/web/python/'
Filename:       'D:/aplicaciones/web/python/index.py'
PathInfo:       ''

Phase:          'PythonHandler'
Handler:        'mptest'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
1537, in HandlerDispatch
    default=default_handler, arg=req, silent=hlist.silent)

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
1202, in _process_target
    module = import_module(module_name, path=path)

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
304, in import_module
    return __import__(module_name, {}, {}, ['*'])

ImportError: No module named mptest

*WHAT CAN I DO?*
-------------- next part --------------
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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20100212/cdc9335b/attachment.html>

From chyavana at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:45:35 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:45:35 +0800
Subject: Sorting a list of lists
Message-ID: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>

Dear Folks,

I have lines of values like so:

14, [25, 105, 104]
10, [107, 106, 162]
21, [26, 116, 165]

I need to sort them in two ways:

(a) By the numeric value of the first column; and

(b) by the sum of the elements of the second item in each list, which is 
a list in itself.

At present, I have appended each line into a list L so that I for teh 
above minimal data, I have a list of lists thus:

[[14, [25, 105, 104]], [10, [107, 106, 162]], [21, [26, 116, 165]]]

I have tried using

(a) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(x[0]))

and

(b) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(sum(x[1])))

and get the anticipated results for (a) and (b0, at least with the above 
minimal data set.

Is this a sensible way to go about the sorting, or are there better ways 
of doing it in Python?

Also, I am baffled because the above fails obviously when len(L) is 
about a hundred and I can't figure out why.

TIA

Chandra


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Fri Feb 12 12:48:33 2010
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 19:48:33 +0200
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
	<mailman.2409.1265928746.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotr5oqssfv.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
	<mailman.2449.1265990936.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotvde25or2.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Terry Reedy writes:
> On 2/12/2010 4:40 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> > Terry Reedy writes:
> >> On 2/11/2010 11:23 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> >>> Robert Kern writes:
> >>>> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> >>>>> There is a little issue here that '>>>   -.1 ** .1' should give you
> >>>>> error message. That is it.
> >>>>
> >>>> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
> >>>> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
> >>>> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time.
> >>
> >> You forgot the smiley ;-).
> >>
> >>   >  The error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).
> >>
> >> The compiler would never see the difference between -.1 ** .1 and the
> >> first and probably no difference with the second either.
> >
> > It could be done the same way that the compiler keeps track of the
> > source line numbers now: early phases annotate their output with any
> > information that later phases may need. This error would be detected
> > during syntactic analysis.
> 
> There is no error to detect. Sorry, read the manual and either learn
> or lookup precedence rules (there is a table in the end of the
> Expressions chapter) or use parentheses when not sure.

Thanks.


From cgoldberg at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 13:18:27 2010
From: cgoldberg at gmail.com (corey goldberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:18:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PExpect Cross-Platform Alternative
References: <348a45771002111147q534fba67m831fbf3961ea55d2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2400.1265918396.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <31a6439e-3832-48c8-b956-3b421b6f5e12@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

> > I was just tasked to get
> > these scripts running in a windows environment and to my dismay very
> > quickly realized that pexpect is not cross platform compatible.
> > Am I stuck, or are there solutions out there?


I haven't tried it, but here is another Python implementation of
Expect that claims to run on Windows also:

http://code.google.com/p/python-expect/

-Corey



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 12 13:24:17 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:24:17 +0000
Subject: Sorting a list of lists
In-Reply-To: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>
References: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B759CD1.4040402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
> 
> I have lines of values like so:
> 
> 14, [25, 105, 104]
> 10, [107, 106, 162]
> 21, [26, 116, 165]
> 
> I need to sort them in two ways:
> 
> (a) By the numeric value of the first column; and
> 
> (b) by the sum of the elements of the second item in each list, which is 
> a list in itself.
> 
> At present, I have appended each line into a list L so that I for teh 
> above minimal data, I have a list of lists thus:
> 
> [[14, [25, 105, 104]], [10, [107, 106, 162]], [21, [26, 116, 165]]]
> 
> I have tried using
> 
> (a) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(x[0]))
> 
> and
> 
> (b) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(sum(x[1])))
> 
> and get the anticipated results for (a) and (b0, at least with the above 
> minimal data set.
> 
> Is this a sensible way to go about the sorting, or are there better ways 
> of doing it in Python?
> 
It's the obvious way to do it.

> Also, I am baffled because the above fails obviously when len(L) is 
> about a hundred and I can't figure out why.
> 
You'd have to post an example of that, but you could try deleting some
of the entries before sorting so see whether you can still reproduce the
problem with a smaller list.


From sparks.m at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 13:32:23 2010
From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:32:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi Alf,


Before I start, note we're talking about semantics, not
implementation. That distinction is very important.

On Feb 11, 4:49 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> > *The* standard general language independent definition?

[ of pointer ]

> Yes.
>
> > As defined where?
>
> For example, as I used as reference in my first posting, the Java language spec.
>   But it has nothing specifically to do with Java. It is a basic concept in
> computer science, that (most) CS students learn in their *first year*.
>
> E.g.
>
> <quote src="http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/106/">
> A pointer stores a reference to something. Unfortunately there is no fixed term
> for the thing that the pointer points to, and across different computer
> languages there is a wide variety of things that pointers point to. We use the
> term pointee for the thing that the pointer points to, and we stick to the basic
> properties of the pointer/pointee relationship which are true in all languages.
> The term "reference" means pretty much the same thing as "pointer" --
> "reference" implies a more high-level discussion, while "pointer" implies the
> traditional compiled language implementation of pointers as addresses. For the
> basic pointer/pointee rules covered here, the terms are effectively equivalent.
> </quote>

This is where you have gone wrong. You have taken a first year
undergraduate
academic generalisation and assumed that it applies to The World. In
theory,
there is no difference between practice and theory, but in practice
there is
(so the saying goes).

The World however has another place for defining terms. That place is
of highly
varying quality, but generally a better place to correct semantics of
terms.
Who knows, eventually there may be a single commonly accepted
viewpoint. (Which
would bring a whole new level of pedantry of course )-:

I am referring to Wikipedia here. (this is a vague attempt at humour,
rather
than an attempt to patronise which it may also come over as)

Let's look at the tip of the iceberg for that:

   "In computer science, a pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to (or "points to") another value
stored
    elsewhere in the computer memory using its address."

           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_%28computing%29

Similarly for Call by Value: (which *is* a loaded term)

    In call-by-value, the argument expression is evaluated, and the
    resulting value is bound to the corresponding variable in the
    function (frequently by copying the value into a new memory
region).
    If the function or procedure is able to assign values to its
    parameters, only its local copy is assigned ? that is, anything
    passed into a function call is unchanged in the caller's scope
    when the function returns.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_value

Call by Reference: (again, loaded term):

   In call-by-reference evaluation (also referred to as pass-by-
reference),
   a function receives an implicit reference to the argument, rather
than
   a copy of its value. This typically means that the function can
modify
   the argument- something that will be seen by its caller.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_reference

Call by Sharing: (far less common term)
   Also known as "call by object" or "call by object-sharing" is an
   evaluation strategy first named by Barbara Liskov et al. for the
   language CLU in 1974[1]. It is used by languages such as Python[2],
   Iota, Java (for object references)[3], Ruby, Scheme, OCaml,
   AppleScript, and many other languages.

   The semantics of call-by-sharing differ from call-by-reference in
   that assignments to function arguments within the function aren't
   visible to the caller (unlike by-reference semantics).

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_sharing

As you can see, there are generally accepted terms and definitions
here,
and python is accepted as falling not into the value or reference
camp,
along with some other languages.

Understanding why IMO comes back to some basic aspects of python which
I believe trip up experienced developers. This claim is based on
talking
to someone experienced in coding for a couple of decades, who has done
a
CS degree (like me), and just didn't understand why I would use
python.

I spent an couple of _days_ explaining this, along with python's
evaluation
model, and at the end we ended up where we started:

   * Python is a language which is focussed on programmer performance,
     not machine performance, because relative to programmer cost,
     machines are cheap. Therefore you focus your language to optimise
     for the programmer, not the machine.

In this case, let's drop back to the word "pointer" which I can
understand
that you like. Indeed, it took me a fair while to let go of the word
when
talking about python, but you do have to.

Why?

Well, assume this definition isn't bad:

   "In computer science, a pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to (or "points to") another value
stored
    elsewhere in the computer memory using its address."

OK, let's assume that we can generalise this to ignore the address
bit,
like so:

   "In computer science, a pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to (or "points to") another value
stored
    elsewhere in the computer memory"

That's still not valid for python - why? Let's keep trimming it back:

   "A pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to another value"

Seems OK. But not valid for python. Why? Let's keep going.

   "A pointer is a data type whose value"

Ah, maybe that is the reason.

Let's look at the canonical kind of way of describing what's happening
here:

>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>> def hello(world):
...    print world
...
>>> hello(x)
[1, 2, 3]

This is actually alot more complicated to explain than it might
seem if someone starts thinking "what's going on underneath".
Let's take the description you'd give to a beginner first. (OK,
depends
on beginner)

Beginner description
--------------------
A list object is created and initialised containing 3 integers -1,2 &
3.
The name x is bound to this list object.

Next a function - hello - is defined which takes one argument. When
called, the name world is bound to the object passed in. The function
body then runs and the object bound to world is used by print to print
whatever str(world) returns.

The function hello is then called with the value bound to the name x.

OK, that seems pretty simple and clear. Little odd in the terminology
perhaps, but it's clear. We deal with names and objects.

The less beginner explanation
-----------------------------
>>> x = [1,2,3]

3 anonymous integer objects are created with the values 1,2 and 3.

These are bound inside a sequence which when iterated over yields
the 3 integer objects.

list is then called with this sequence object (of whatever kind it
is under the hood). A list object is then created such that:
    x[0] appears bound to the integer object 1
    x[1] appears bound to the integer object 2
    x[2] appears bound to the integer object 3

Note I do NOT say that x[0] contains a reference to object 1,
because in languages that contain references you would:
   a) have access to the reference
   b) have a means of dereferencing the reference
   c) Have to dereference the reference in order to obtain the
      value.

This is because a reference is a form of l-value and r-value. It
is a value in itself, and  refers to a value. Python does not have
such a beast. (The closest you can get is a class property, but I
digress)

In python, the language, we do not have a) or b) nor have to
do c). (indeed cannot do "c")

Why do I say "appears bound" ?

Because x[0] is syntactic sugar to a function call - x.__getitem__(0)

So...

This results in a list object being created allowing access to 3
integer
objects. The name "x" is bound to this list object.

>>> def hello(world):
...    print world
...

This statement (not definition) creates a function object which
accepts one argument which will be and object labelled "world"
inside the scope of the function. The resulting function object
is bound to the name "hello" in the same scope as "x".

The resulting function object also has a bunch of other attributes,
which I won't go into.

>>> hello(x)
[1, 2, 3]

This is quite complex if you go down this layer. hello is a
name bound to the function object we created earlier.

Python effectivelly does this:
>>> getattr(hello, "__call__")

And uses that as the method to call with the arguments provided.

Specifically, the object that x is bound to is passed as the sole
argument to the __call__ method (wrapper) that getattr(hello,
"__call__")
returned.

The object, not a reference.
The object, not a pointer.

This is because python's semantics are designed for humans not
machines.

When applying the object we humans call x to the function
object we humans call hello
...
    >>> def hello(world):
    ...    print world

...inside the scope of the function object, the name world
is bound to the object that the calling scope calls x.

This may be *implemented* in one runtime using references
in one language.
It may be *implemented* in another runtime using pointers
in another.

In PyPy the implementation will be to pass the object by
sharing. (I suspect, I've not looked at PyPy's internal's
but that's what I'd expect)

Anyhow, by hook or by crook, inside hello, the name world
is now bound to our previously created list object, which
itself has made it such that we can retrieve the 3 integers
we asked it to.

The print statement evaluates str(world), which evaluates
world.__str__(), and passes the resulting string object to
the subsystem that actually spits characters out of stdout.

That's a significantly more complicated explanation, but
still does not need or use the terms pointers or references.
The object itself is passed as the argument. The fact that
an object may have many names is by the by.

Now, you may be asking yourself (indeed I'm certain you may be)
"But how is that any difference, really, from pointers and
references".

Indeed it will seem odd to hear clearly well educated people
arguing against you saying "no, they're not pointers or
references".

It seems odd, primarily because in languages where you have
pointers and references, pointers and references are in
themselves values.

Specifically, in such languages you start talking about
l-values and r-values. An r-value is a value that may be
assigned to an l-value. An l-value essentially thus denotes
storage - a destination for an r-value.

An l-values is a machine oriented concept.
A name is a human oriented concept.

Python doesn't have l-values. It has names, and r-values.
A name is just a name, and has no value. When the name is
used syntactically, the value (object) it is bound to is
used in its place.

Thus using your example "demonstrating" that references
exist in python is something you're not yourself
understanding correctly.

Rather than thinking of names as boxes which can contain
values, think of them as labels (post it notes) that can
be stuck onto values/objects. If you do this, it will
simplify your thinking.

This was your wording:
   s = ["A"]
   t = s             # Copies the reference.
   t[0] = "B"        # Changes the referenced object via the reference
copy.
   print( s )        # Inspects object (now changed) via original
reference.

This is mine:
   s = ["A"]

A list object is created such that the string object
"A" can be retrieved from it. The label "s" is stuck
on the object.

   t = s

Sticks the label "t" onto the object as well.

   t[0] = "B"

Applies the __setitem__ method of the list object we've
created with the integer object 0 and string object "B".
(What this does is anyone's guess really, someone could
have changed the implementation of list before these 4
lines were executed)

   print( s )

print takes the list object which s is stuck onto. It
then calls the __str__ method of the list object passed
it, gets back a string object and spits that out stdout.

Whether we chose to use the label s or t is irrelevant,
the object _itself_ is passed in. (in terms of semantics)

Again, note, we're talking about semantics, not implementation.
That distinction is very important.

Once again, you might say, "but my explanation works well
with references and pointers", and yes in terms of
implementation, those things will exist. But if you
confuse the implementation as the semantics, you run
into problems.

For example, going back to your (incorrect) explanation:
   s = ["A"]
   t = s             # Copies the reference.
   t[0] = "B"        # Changes the referenced object via the reference
copy.
   print( s )        # Inspects object (now changed) via original
reference.

If t or s are references or pointers, I should be able
to deal with the reference or pointer itself as a value.

After all accepted definitions of pointer boil down to:

   "A pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to another value"

And similarly for references:

    "Generally, a reference is a value that enables a
     program to directly access the particular data item."
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference#Computer_science

ie both pointers and references are themselves values that
enable access to the value AND are NOT in themselves the
value they point/refer to.

In python, if I do this:

      def hello(world):
         print world

      X = [1,2,3]
      hello(X)

Then "X" is best described as a name bound to the object [1,2,3]

hello(X) is best described as calling the function bound to the
name "hello" with a single argument being the object that the
name "X" is bound to.

Inside hello, "world" is a name that is bound to whatever object
gets slung inside as its first argument. Not a pointer. Not a
reference. The object.

This semantics is radically different from languages like C,
Pascal, and similar.

One final approach.

Suppose I do this:

a = (1,2,3)
b = (4,5,6)
c = (7,8,9)
d = [a, b, c]

And I claim that a, b and c are references. (as per your
explanation)

This would mean that d[2] must also be the same reference as c.
(if you take d[2] to be a reference - which it isn't)

Therefore updating d[2] must update c.

That could imply that

d[2] += (10,)

Should result in c's reference referring to the value (7,8,9,10)

And with D having the value [ (1,2,3), (4,5,6), (7,8,9,10) ]

This is perfectly logical semantics if you're dealing with
references and pointers.

However, python doesn't deal with them. It deals with objects
and names. D does indeed result with that value, but c is
left unchanged.

The reason is because python only has r-values and names, and
no l-values.

d[2] += (10,)

Results in d[2] being evaluated - that is the __getitem__
method on the object d is bound to is called with the argument 2.
This returns the tuple object (7,8,9).

The __add__ method of that tuple object is then called, with the
argument (10,)
This returns a new tuple object (7,8,9,10)

Finalled the __setitem__ method of the object d is bound
to is called with the argument 2 and the freshly minted
tuple object (7,8,9,10).

This results in c being left unchanged. This results in D
having the correct value.

If we were dealing with references and pointers it would be
perfectly acceptable for c to be modified. In python, the
label "c" cannot be tacked onto the returned value.

Crucially, a pointer can be a pointer to a pointer, and you
can have references to references (which allows you to
dereference the pointer/reference and change the pointer/
reference).

You can't do this in python names directly. (You can come
close using properties, and by messing around in globals
and locals, but that's getting quite nasty, and not really
the same semantics.)

Anyway, I hope you've not found that patronising or ad-hominem.
If you've found my explanation overly simplistic or using too
simple phrasing, please excuse that - it's a style of writing
I've picked up on a writing course once.

In summary, if you claim that there's references or pointers
here...
   s = ["A"]
   t = s             # Copies the reference.
   t[0] = "B"        # Changes the referenced object via the reference
copy.
   print( s )        # Inspects object (now changed) via original
reference.

... since references and pointers are values themselves, not
the values they refer to, how can I store a reference to a
reference? That is update the value of s from a function?

Specifically, if python has pointers or references, this should
be doable:

   s = 1        # Claim is that s is a reference to 1
   update(s, 2) # Update the reference s to point at the value 2

How do I write the function "update" used above in pure python.
(without messing with globals(), locals(), or diving into any
other language implementation specific concepts)

After all, I can write that in any other language that has pointers &
references.

Finally, note, we're talking about semantics, not implementation.
That distinction is very important.

If this seems odd, the reason is because python's semantics are
very much more like those of a functional language when it comes
to function calls, than it is to standard imperative languages.

Python's functions are all impure however, and side effects are
common, due to objects not (all) being immutable. Your experience
here is leading you to the wrong conclusions and incorrect reasoning.

Regards,


Michael
--
http://www.kamaelia.org/


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 12 13:32:49 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:32:49 -0500
Subject: Sorting a list of lists
In-Reply-To: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>
References: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B759ED1.3090507@optimum.net>

On 2/12/2010 12:45 PM, R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> I have lines of values like so:
>
> 14, [25, 105, 104]
> 10, [107, 106, 162]
> 21, [26, 116, 165]
>
> I need to sort them in two ways:
>
> (a) By the numeric value of the first column; and
>
> (b) by the sum of the elements of the second item in each list, which is
> a list in itself.
>
> At present, I have appended each line into a list L so that I for teh
> above minimal data, I have a list of lists thus:
>
> [[14, [25, 105, 104]], [10, [107, 106, 162]], [21, [26, 116, 165]]]
>
> I have tried using
>
> (a) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(x[0]))

Just plain "sorted(L)" will work, because Python knows how to compare 
your [N, [N,N,N]]-format values:

 >>> [14, [25, 105, 104]] < (14, [25, 105, 103]]
False
 >>> [14, [25, 105, 104]] < (14, [25, 105, 105]]
True
 >>>

>
> and
>
> (b) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(sum(x[1])))

That looks good.

>
> and get the anticipated results for (a) and (b0, at least with the above
> minimal data set.
>
> Is this a sensible way to go about the sorting, or are there better ways
> of doing it in Python?

You're doing fine.

>
> Also, I am baffled because the above fails obviously when len(L) is
> about a hundred and I can't figure out why.

Please cut-and-paste the exact error message (or other evidence of 
"failure") into a message.


Tx,
John


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 12 13:45:46 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:45:46 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>

On 2/12/2010 12:14 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:45:31 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
>
>> You also confirmed what I thought was true that all variables are passed
>> "by reference" so I don't need to worry about the data being copied
>> (unless I do that explicitly).
>
> No, but yes.
>
> No, variables are not passed by reference, but yes, you don't have to
> worry about them being copied.
>
> You have probably been mislead into thinking that there are only two
> calling conventions possible, "pass by value" and "pass by reference".
> That is incorrect. There are many different calling conventions, and
> different groups use the same names to mean radically different things.
>
> If a language passes variables by reference, you can write a "swap"
> function like this:
>
> def swap(a, b):
>      a, b = b, a
>
> x = 1
> y = 2
> swap(x, y)
> assert (x == 2) and (y==1)
>
> But this does not work in Python, and cannot work without trickery. So
> Python absolutely is not "pass by reference".
>
> On the other hand, if a variable is passed by value, then a copy is made
> and you can do this:
>
> def append1(alist):
>      alist.append(1)  # modify the copy
>      return alist
>
> x = []
> newlist = append1(x)
> assert x == []  # The old value still exists.
>
> But this also doesn't work in Python! So Python isn't "pass by value"
> either.
>
> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
> maximum amount of confusion possible.
>
>
> More here:
>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy
>

Excellent writeup, Steve! You and Jeremy might be interested in a 
message on "pass-by-XXX" from John Zelle, the author of the textbook 
"Python Programming: An Introduction to Computer Science". [1]  This was 
part of a long thread in May 2008 on the Python edu-sig list -- nearly 
as long as "Modifying Class Object", but with nowhere near the fireworks!

Tx,
John

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html



From senhor.abrantes at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:12:37 2010
From: senhor.abrantes at gmail.com (joao abrantes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:12:37 +0000
Subject: Pixel control
In-Reply-To: <880fa1d41002041457v44b7c4ddobe79db5fc7c9ebd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880fa1d41002041457v44b7c4ddobe79db5fc7c9ebd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880fa1d41002121112r4e8c1550xf32cdea17a2bfeb@mail.gmail.com>

noone knows if it's possible? i really need this..

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:57 PM, joao abrantes <senhor.abrantes at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello everyone. For example i am using a screen resolution of 800x600 is it
> possible to make python control the color of the pixels? For example paint
> the pixel (100,200) in red! And it would stay red when i am seeing a
> webpage, a movie, playing a game... etc.. Regards, Jo?o Abrantes.
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From mccolgst at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:36:46 2010
From: mccolgst at gmail.com (McColgst)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:36:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: search entire drive say c:
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2428.1265979681.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8d585aae-2764-4d98-9027-b7d3c9f03b94@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>


> ? ?ROOT = "c:\\"
> ? ?fname = "abc.txt".lower()
> ? ?for p, d, f in os.walk(ROOT):
> ? ? ?for fn in f:
> ? ? ? ?if fn.lower() == fname:
> ? ? ? ? ?print os.path.join(p, f)
> ? ? ? ? ?# break

I think you mean

print os.path.join(p,fn)

-sean


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:39:18 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:39:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
Message-ID: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
a series of regex, which look something like this...

19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)

Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
any suggestions would be appreciated...

The file read in is an ascii file.

f = open(fname, 'r')
s = f.read()

if CANHT:
    s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
canht_ft", CANHT, s)

where CANHT might be

CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'

But this involves me passing the entire string.

Thanks.

Martin


From mccolgst at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:57:34 2010
From: mccolgst at gmail.com (McColgst)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:57:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 2:39?pm, Martin <mdeka... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ? ? ?! ?lai(1:npft)
>
> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> f = open(fname, 'r')
> s = f.read()
>
> if CANHT:
> ? ? s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+ ? !
> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> where CANHT might be
>
> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft'
>
> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Martin

If I understand correctly, there are a couple ways to do it.
One is to use .split() and split by the '!' sign, given that you wont
have more than one '!' on a line. This will return a list of the words
split by the delimiter, in this case being '!', so you should get back
(19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00  ,  canht_ft(1:npft) )  and you can do
whatever replace functions you want using the list.

check out split: http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.split

Another, is in your regular expression, you can match the first part
or second part of the string by specifying where the '!' is,
if you want to match the part after the '!' I would do something like
r"[^! cahnt_ft]", or something similar (i'm not particularly up-to-
date with my regex syntax, but I think you get the idea.)

I hope I understood correctly, and I hope that helps.

-sean


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:07:08 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:07:08 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>

John Posner wrote:

>>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy

> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html

Hmm how about "call by label-value"?

That is, you change labels by assignment, but pass the value of the 
label to a function. Since label value is passed, original label is not 
changed (i.e. it's not call by reference).

However, an object referenced by label value can be changed in Python, 
like in classic example of list label passed to a function and then this 
list being modified in a function.

Regards,
mk



From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 15:22:02 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:22:02 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Michael Sparks:
> Hi Alf,
> 
> 
> Before I start, note we're talking about semantics, not
> implementation. That distinction is very important.

Yes.

It would seem to readers that posters here do not grasp and are unable to grasp 
that distinction.

However, all those references to implementation aspects, persisting in the face 
of corrections, have just, IMHO, been consistent attempts at misrepresentation.


> On Feb 11, 4:49 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>>> *The* standard general language independent definition?
> 
> [ of pointer ]
> 
>> Yes.
>>
>>> As defined where?
>> For example, as I used as reference in my first posting, the Java language spec.
>>   But it has nothing specifically to do with Java. It is a basic concept in
>> computer science, that (most) CS students learn in their *first year*.
>>
>> E.g.
>>
>> <quote src="http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/106/">
>> A pointer stores a reference to something. Unfortunately there is no fixed term
>> for the thing that the pointer points to, and across different computer
>> languages there is a wide variety of things that pointers point to. We use the
>> term pointee for the thing that the pointer points to, and we stick to the basic
>> properties of the pointer/pointee relationship which are true in all languages.
>> The term "reference" means pretty much the same thing as "pointer" --
>> "reference" implies a more high-level discussion, while "pointer" implies the
>> traditional compiled language implementation of pointers as addresses. For the
>> basic pointer/pointee rules covered here, the terms are effectively equivalent.
>> </quote>
> 
> This is where you have gone wrong. You have taken a first year
> undergraduate
> academic generalisation and assumed that it applies to The World.'

I'm sorry to disappoint, but no. It was a random Google hit to find a first-year 
text that perhaps posters here could understand. Not insinuiting anything about 
their mental prowess or lack thereof, but just something they might understand 
given a repeatedly demonstrated inability to understand such basics, or even to 
understand the concept of reference to a definition of a term.

Please do consider that my usage of the term "pointer" has always, in this 
thread, including the first article I posted in this thread, been with explicit 
reference to the Java language spec's meaning.

You may argue that those who wrote that language spec are confused about things 
or whatever, but that's rather stretching it, wouldn't you say?


> In theory, there is no difference between practice and theory, but in practice
> there is (so the saying goes).
> 
> The World however has another place for defining terms. That place is
> of highly
> varying quality, but generally a better place to correct semantics of
> terms.
> Who knows, eventually there may be a single commonly accepted
> viewpoint. (Which
> would bring a whole new level of pedantry of course )-:
> 
> I am referring to Wikipedia here. (this is a vague attempt at humour,
> rather
> than an attempt to patronise which it may also come over as)

I understand.

You may note that that Wikipedia article refers to an article that I wrote about 
pointers in C++.

So, this must be the most silly "argument by authority" ever offered.

I find that amusing and would have included a smiley except that I think that 
that would incur further flames.

It's no criticism of you; I do appreciate your effort, thanks. And I reiterate 
that the meaning of "pointer" I have used is the meaning in the Java language 
spec. And that that's about semantics, not about implementation, and not about C 
pointers or Pascal pointers or whatever else that some would rather wish it was.



[snip]

In the following that I snipped you had good discussion except for (as I could 
see) a fallacy-based denial of references existing in Python. I don't think 
there's any point in discussing that further, because it's evidently a religious 
matter where rational arguments  --  and I've tried a few  --  don't reach, in 
spite of the extreme triviality of the subject matter. Thanks for the effort at 
non-flaming discussion, it *is* appreciated.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Feb 12 15:22:08 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:22:08 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
	<mailman.2458.1266005196.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4da4$ed9$1@speranza.aioe.org>

mk wrote:

> John Posner wrote:
> 
>>>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy
> 
>> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html
> 
> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?

Nothing egregiously wrong with it.. maybe it's a bit wordy.  It may be an 
uphill fight getting it accepted into computer science the way Call by 
value, Call by reference, Call by sharing, and Call by copy-restore have 
been (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy>).

	Mel.
> 
> That is, you change labels by assignment, but pass the value of the
> label to a function. Since label value is passed, original label is not
> changed (i.e. it's not call by reference).
> 
> However, an object referenced by label value can be changed in Python,
> like in classic example of list label passed to a function and then this
> list being modified in a function.
> 
> Regards,
> mk




From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 15:26:24 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Bruno Desthuilliers:
> Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit :
> (snip)
>> This group has an extraordinary high level of flaming and personal 
>> attacks
> 
> Oh my...
> 
> (snip remaining non-sense)
> 
> Mr Steinbach, I bet you'll count this as another "flaming" and "personal 
> attack", but nonetheless : you might have happier time if you were able 
> to understand the distinction between disagreement and "personal attack".
> 
> (now back to more interesting readings)

Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.

The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about the 
person you're debating with.

In addition, your statement about the earlier attacks on me, is untrue, and your 
implication that it's only about attacks on me, is untrue. Both of which are 
very misleading, by the way. I'm assuming that you're intentionally lying.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:28:48 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:28:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c5ae3fc9-0a9e-455b-912e-f31c603589e3@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 7:57?pm, McColgst <mccol... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2:39?pm, Martin <mdeka... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> > a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> > 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> > 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ? ? ?! ?lai(1:npft)
>
> > Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> > would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> > numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> > any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> > The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> > f = open(fname, 'r')
> > s = f.read()
>
> > if CANHT:
> > ? ? s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+ ? !
> > canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> > where CANHT might be
>
> > CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft'
>
> > But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Martin
>
> If I understand correctly, there are a couple ways to do it.
> One is to use .split() and split by the '!' sign, given that you wont
> have more than one '!' on a line. This will return a list of the words
> split by the delimiter, in this case being '!', so you should get back
> (19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ?, ?canht_ft(1:npft) ) ?and you can do
> whatever replace functions you want using the list.
>
> check out split:http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.split
>
> Another, is in your regular expression, you can match the first part
> or second part of the string by specifying where the '!' is,
> if you want to match the part after the '!' I would do something like
> r"[^! cahnt_ft]", or something similar (i'm not particularly up-to-
> date with my regex syntax, but I think you get the idea.)
>
> I hope I understood correctly, and I hope that helps.
>
> -sean

Hi I like the second suggestion, so this wouldn't rely on me having to
match the numbers only the string canht for example but still allow me
to replace the whole line, is that what you mean?

I tried it and the expression seemed to replace the entire file, so
perhaps i am doing something wrong. But in principle I think that
might be a better scheme than my current one. i tried

if CANHT:
    #s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
canht_ft", CANHT, s)
    s = re.sub(r"[^!  canht_ft]", CANHT, s)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 12 15:30:29 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:30:29 +0000
Subject: Replace various regex
In-Reply-To: <479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B75BA65.8000107@mrabarnett.plus.com>

McColgst wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2:39 pm, Martin <mdeka... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
>> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>>
>> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
>> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)
>>
>> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
>> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
>> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
>> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>>
>> The file read in is an ascii file.
>>
>> f = open(fname, 'r')
>> s = f.read()
>>
>> if CANHT:
>>     s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
>> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>>
>> where CANHT might be
>>
>> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'
>>
>> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Martin
> 
> If I understand correctly, there are a couple ways to do it.
> One is to use .split() and split by the '!' sign, given that you wont
> have more than one '!' on a line. This will return a list of the words
> split by the delimiter, in this case being '!', so you should get back
> (19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00  ,  canht_ft(1:npft) )  and you can do
> whatever replace functions you want using the list.
> 
> check out split: http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.split
> 
The .split method is the best way if you process the file a line at a
time. The .split method, incidentally, accepts a maxcount argument so
that you can split a line no more than once.

> Another, is in your regular expression, you can match the first part
> or second part of the string by specifying where the '!' is,
> if you want to match the part after the '!' I would do something like
> r"[^! cahnt_ft]", or something similar (i'm not particularly up-to-
> date with my regex syntax, but I think you get the idea.)
> 
The regex would be r"(?m)^[^!]*(!.*)" to capture the '!' and the rest of
the line.

> I hope I understood correctly, and I hope that helps.
> 



From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:32:29 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:32:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A silly question on file opening
References: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<a01025f4-a6e2-42bd-ad5c-6b45827df81a@v36g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <085eb96f-9023-4ef3-af29-95749f62e311@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 1:57?am, Anthony Tolle <anthony.to... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 10, 3:42?pm,joy99<subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Group,
> > [snip]
> > I tried to change the location to D:\file and as I saw in Python Docs
> > the file reading option is now "r+" so I changed the statement to
> > ? ?file_open=open("D:\file","r+")
> > but it is still giving error.
>
> Only use "r+" if you need to also write to the file. ?"r" is still
> good for opening for reading.
>
> Without seeing a traceback, I can only assume the error is caused by
> using a backslash in the path without escaping it. ?Try either the
> following:
>
> file_open=open("D:\\file","r+")
>
> file_open=open(r"D:\file","r+")
>
> For an explanation, see the Python documentation:
>
> http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-literals

Dear Group,

I am sorry I could not report. I was trying your solutions, I could
try only one or two, they are working. My problem got solved. Thank
you for your suggestions. But soon I find time, I would try all of
them, so that I can learn more and what I try to do in this room to
get better angles over any problem from experts like you. Thank you
for giving me your valuable time despite your busy schedule.

Wishing you happy day ahead,
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Feb 12 15:33:28 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:33:28 -0800
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
	<hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75BB18.7010904@stoneleaf.us>

mk wrote:
> John Posner wrote:
> 
>>>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy
> 
>> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html
> 
> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?
> 
> That is, you change labels by assignment, but pass the value of the 
> label to a function. Since label value is passed, original label is not 
> changed (i.e. it's not call by reference).
> 
> However, an object referenced by label value can be changed in Python, 
> like in classic example of list label passed to a function and then this 
> list being modified in a function.
> 
> Regards,
> mk
> 

Because "value" and "reference" are already well defined terms with very 
definite meanings, I think using them in any way to describe Python's 
model will lead to confusion.

Seems to me that "call by object", a term coined decades ago, and that 
accurately defines the way that Python (the language) actually does it, 
should be the term used.

My $0.02.

~Ethan~


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 12 15:41:40 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:41:40 +1100
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
References: <mailman.2434.1265983307.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl3ofb$cne$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87ocjufapn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <mailman.2434.1265983307.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Lloyd Zusman  <ljz at asfast.com> wrote:
> >if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
> >if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }
>
> Assuming you're on a Unix-like system or can install Cygwin, the
> standard response is to use the "file" command. It's *much* more
> sophisticated.

Indeed, the ?file? command is an expected (though not standard) part of
most Unix systems, and its use frees us from the lies of filenames about
their contents.

The sophistication comes from an extensive database of heuristics ?
filesystem attributes, ?magic? content signatures, and parsing ? that
are together known as the ?magic database?. This database is maintained
along with the ?file? program, and made accessible through a C library
from the same code base called ?magic?.

So, you don't actually need to use the ?file? command to access this
sophistication. Just about every program on a GNU system that wants to
display file types, such as the graphical file manager, will query the
?magic? library directly to get the file type.

The ?file? code base has for a while now also included a Python
interface to this library, importable as the module name ?magic?.
Unfortunately it isn't registered at PyPI as far as I can tell. (There
are several project using the name ?magic? that implement something
similar, but they are nowhere near as sophisticated.)

On a Debian GNU/Linux system, you can install the ?python-magic? package
to get this installed. Otherwise, you can build it from the ?file? code
base <URL:http://www.darwinsys.com/file/>.

-- 
 \        ?I don't accept the currently fashionable assertion that any |
  `\       view is automatically as worthy of respect as any equal and |
_o__)                                   opposite view.? ?Douglas Adams |
Ben Finney


From jcquevedo84 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:46:19 2010
From: jcquevedo84 at gmail.com (Juan Carlos Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:46:19 -1200
Subject: ImportError: No module named mptest
Message-ID: <f598914f1002121246y1d199af7w7d3507c6b7abd49b@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I am trying implement a text from mod_python.

I have a apahce service 2.2.4, python 2.5 and  mod_python  3.3.1

I have this mistake:

MOD_PYTHON ERROR

ProcessId:      5956
Interpreter:    '192.168.5.32'

ServerName:     '192.168.5.32'
DocumentRoot:   'D:/aplicaciones/web'

URI:            '/python/index.py'
Location:       None
Directory:      'D:/aplicaciones/web/python/'
Filename:       'D:/aplicaciones/web/python/index.py'
PathInfo:       ''

Phase:          'PythonHandler'
Handler:        'mptest'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
1537, in HandlerDispatch

    default=default_handler, arg=req, silent=hlist.silent)

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
1202, in _process_target
    module = import_module(module_name, path=path)

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
304, in import_module
    return __import__(module_name, {}, {}, ['*'])

ImportError: No module named mptest

*WHAT CAN I DO?*
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From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 15:59:32 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:59:32 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
	<hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl4ffj$kg9$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?

Or "call by guido"? How do you like "call like a dutch"? :]



From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 16:02:40 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:02:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2459.1266006628.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d86f68a9-b1c6-4538-9ed4-a9f944810cb6@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 8:30?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> McColgst wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 2:39 pm, Martin <mdeka... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> >> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> >> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> >> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ? ? ?! ?lai(1:npft)
>
> >> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> >> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> >> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> >> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> >> The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> >> f = open(fname, 'r')
> >> s = f.read()
>
> >> if CANHT:
> >> ? ? s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+ ? !
> >> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> >> where CANHT might be
>
> >> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft'
>
> >> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> >> Thanks.
>
> >> Martin
>
> > If I understand correctly, there are a couple ways to do it.
> > One is to use .split() and split by the '!' sign, given that you wont
> > have more than one '!' on a line. This will return a list of the words
> > split by the delimiter, in this case being '!', so you should get back
> > (19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ?, ?canht_ft(1:npft) ) ?and you can do
> > whatever replace functions you want using the list.
>
> > check out split:http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.split
>
> The .split method is the best way if you process the file a line at a
> time. The .split method, incidentally, accepts a maxcount argument so
> that you can split a line no more than once.
>
> > Another, is in your regular expression, you can match the first part
> > or second part of the string by specifying where the '!' is,
> > if you want to match the part after the '!' I would do something like
> > r"[^! cahnt_ft]", or something similar (i'm not particularly up-to-
> > date with my regex syntax, but I think you get the idea.)
>
> The regex would be r"(?m)^[^!]*(!.*)" to capture the '!' and the rest of
> the line.
>
>
>
> > I hope I understood correctly, and I hope that helps.

I guess I could read the file a line at a time and try splitting it,
though I though it would be better to read it all once then search for
the various regex I need to match and replace?

I am not sure that regex helps, as that would match and replace every
line which had a "!". Perhaps if i explain more thoroughly?

So the input file looks something like this...

9*0.0                        !  canopy(1:ntiles)
12.100                       !  cs
0.0                          !  gs
9*50.0                       !  rgrain(1:ntiles)
 0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759  !  stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
9*0.46                       !  snow_tile(1:ntiles)
0.46                         !  snow_grnd
276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48  !  t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
9*276.78                     !  tstar_tile(1:ntiles)
19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 !  lai(1:npft)

So for each of the strings following the "!" I may potentially want to
match them and replace some of the numbers. That is I might search for
the expression snow_grnd with the intention of substituting 0.46 for
another number. What i came up with was a way to match all the numbers
and pass the replacement string.


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 16:03:47 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:03:47 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2461.1266008395.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>	<hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2461.1266008395.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4fjq$3c5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Christian Heimes:
> mk wrote:
>> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?
> 
> Or "call by guido"? How do you like "call like a dutch"? :]

Just a note: it might be more clear to talk about "pass by XXX" than "call by XXX".

Unless you're talking about something else than argument passing.

The standard terminology is in my view fine.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 12 16:33:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 21:33:31 GMT
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
	<mailman.2458.1266005196.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0385b53b$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:07:08 +0100, mk wrote:

> John Posner wrote:
> 
>>>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy
> 
>> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html
> 
> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?

Python's calling convention already has an well-established name, 
established over thirty years ago by the distinguished computer scientist 
Barbara Liskov, namely call-by-sharing. It's also known as "call-by-
object-reference". It doesn't need yet another name.



-- 
Steven


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Feb 12 16:52:34 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:52:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit?:
> 
> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
> maximum amount of confusion possible.

Well, I think the Ruby people got it right. Python *does* pass parameters 
by reference. After all, we even speak about reference counting, 
reference cycles, etc.

So I'm not sure what distinction you're making here.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 17:10:01 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:10:01 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75D1B9.1050809@holdenweb.com>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
>> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
>> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
>> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
>> maximum amount of confusion possible.
> 
> Well, I think the Ruby people got it right. Python *does* pass parameters 
> by reference. After all, we even speak about reference counting, 
> reference cycles, etc.
> 
> So I'm not sure what distinction you're making here.
> 
He's distinguishing what Python does from the "call by reference" which
has been used since the days of Algol 60.

As has already been pointed out, if Python used call by reference then
the following code would run without raising an AssertionError:

def exchange(a, b):
    a, b = b, a

x = 1
y = 2
exchange(x, y)
assert (x == 2 and y == 1)

Since function-local assignment always takes place in the function
call's local namespace Python does not, and cannot, work like this, and
hence the term "call by reference" is inapplicable to Python's semantics.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 17:10:01 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:10:01 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75D1B9.1050809@holdenweb.com>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
>> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
>> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
>> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
>> maximum amount of confusion possible.
> 
> Well, I think the Ruby people got it right. Python *does* pass parameters 
> by reference. After all, we even speak about reference counting, 
> reference cycles, etc.
> 
> So I'm not sure what distinction you're making here.
> 
He's distinguishing what Python does from the "call by reference" which
has been used since the days of Algol 60.

As has already been pointed out, if Python used call by reference then
the following code would run without raising an AssertionError:

def exchange(a, b):
    a, b = b, a

x = 1
y = 2
exchange(x, y)
assert (x == 2 and y == 1)

Since function-local assignment always takes place in the function
call's local namespace Python does not, and cannot, work like this, and
hence the term "call by reference" is inapplicable to Python's semantics.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 17:12:06 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:12:06 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Antoine Pitrou:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
>> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
>> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
>> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
>> maximum amount of confusion possible.
> 
> Well, I think the Ruby people got it right. Python *does* pass parameters 
> by reference. After all, we even speak about reference counting, 
> reference cycles, etc.
> 
> So I'm not sure what distinction you're making here.

Steven talks about the standard meaning of "pass by reference".

Essentially that means that you can implement a routine "swap" such that

   a = 1; b = 2; swap( a, b )

results in a == 2 and b == 1.

In Pascal that's 'var' parameters, in C there's no such, in C++ it's reference 
type parameters using '&' as a type builder, in C# it's 'out' and 'ref' 
parameters (I think C# has both the most practical and the most elegant 
implementation, you can see at the call site whether it's by reference), so on.

To some degree "pass by reference" is however just a collection of special cases 
with some similarity. For example, if one says that the guiding principle & main 
criterion is that one should not have to indicate the pass by reference at the 
call site, then that would exclude C#. But if one allows some indication at the 
call site, then that would perhaps include C (applying the & address op), which 
everyone agrees does not have call by reference.

So, to understand the conventional meaning of the term it is perhaps necessary 
to have some knowledge of all the special cases, like here C# versus C.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 17:17:00 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:17:00 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4k17$52t$2@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> You may note that that Wikipedia article refers to an article that I
> wrote about pointers in C++.
> 
It's a broken link, referring to a non-existent server.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 17:27:19 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:27:19 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2466.1266013057.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2466.1266013057.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4kgg$h43$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> You may note that that Wikipedia article refers to an article that I
>> wrote about pointers in C++.
>>
> It's a broken link, referring to a non-existent server.

Yes, sorry.

It's been that way a long time, and for the same reason my C++ tutorial, the 
only one linked to from the C++ FAQ, is also off-line.

However, if you're interested then copies of the "pointers" doc are likely to be 
floating around (at one time some mention of it somewhere generated very high 
traffic over a few weeks, people downloading the PDF, and then I almost reversed 
my decision not to have ads...).


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Feb 12 17:27:32 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:27:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B75D1B9.1050809@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl4kkk$r7$2@ger.gmane.org>

Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:10:01 -0500, Steve Holden a ?crit?:
> 
> As has already been pointed out, if Python used call by reference then
> the following code would run without raising an AssertionError:
> 
> def exchange(a, b):
>     a, b = b, a
> 
> x = 1
> y = 2
> exchange(x, y)
> assert (x == 2 and y == 1)
> 
> Since function-local assignment always takes place in the function
> call's local namespace

I don't think this is related to a difference in parameter passing style.

It's just that assignment ("=") means a different thing in Python than in 
non-object languages (or fake-object languages such as C++ or PHP): it 
rebinds instead of mutating in-place. If it mutated, you wouldn't have 
the AssertionError.

If you mutate in-place:

>>> def exchange(a, b):
...     t = a[:]
...     a[:] = b
...     b[:] = t
... 
>>> x, y = [1], [2]
>>> exchange(x, y)
>>> x, y
([2], [1])

Regards

Antoine.



From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Feb 12 17:37:55 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:37:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4l83$r7$3@ger.gmane.org>

Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:12:06 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit?:
> 
> Steven talks about the standard meaning of "pass by reference".

See my answer to Steve's message. You can't postulate a "standard 
meaning" of "pass by reference" independently of the specificities of 
each language. For example a "variable" in Python means something 
different than in non-object languages; it is impossible to have an 
agnostic definition.

In Python and other true object languages, the operations on references 
(especially assignment) don't have the same semantics as in more archaic 
languages. This is no reason, IMO, to refuse using the term "pass by 
reference". The state of art in computing languages evolves, and it 
wouldn't be constructive to remain stuck with definitions from the 1960s.

Regards

Antoine.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 12 17:44:52 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 22:44:52 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
> 
> The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
> the person you're debating with.

As negative as accusing somebody of intentionally lying?

Or is it only a personal attack when other people dare to disagree with 
Alf P. Steinbach?


> In addition, your statement about the earlier attacks on me, is untrue,
> and your implication that it's only about attacks on me, is untrue. Both
> of which are very misleading, by the way. I'm assuming that you're
> intentionally lying.

Get over yourself. You're not so important that everyone is falling over 
themselves to discredit you by intentional lying.

You do bring some technical knowledge and perspectives that is valuable to
this community, but it comes with so much spikiness, near-paranoia and
Freudian projection that it is extremely unpleasant dealing with you.

Since you first came to this community, you have displayed a remarkable 
ability to take personal offence at virtually every disagreement, a 
deeply paranoid viewpoint that whenever somebody contradicts your 
statements they are deliberately lying, and a level of arrogance that is 
outstanding even for computer science. (How sure of yourself do you have 
to be to write a textbook for beginners in a language that you yourself 
are a self-professed beginner in?)

I note with interest that this is not the only forum where your reaction 
to disagreement is to accuse others of deliberate lying. It is a habit of 
yours, and you've displayed it frequently and repeatedly. For example:

http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/General/comp.programming/2006-08/msg00139.html

http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/43780-20.php

http://groups.google.am/group/comp.lang.c++/browse_thread/thread/555331f8dd594837

I'm no longer willing to tolerate the unpleasant attitudes you 
display. So congratulations Alf. I've only kill-filed one other person on 
this newsgroup until now. You are now the second. I may reverse it some 
time in the future, but for now I'm just not interested in your paranoid 
accusations that others are lying about you and your continual misuse of 
the term "ad hominem" to refer to any and all criticism of your behaviour.

*plonk*


-- 
Steven


From rtw at rtw.me.uk  Fri Feb 12 17:46:23 2010
From: rtw at rtw.me.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:46:23 -0600
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1DE7ED554F0rtwfreenetREMOVEcouk@216.196.109.145>

hjebbers wrote in news:2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-
3348b72b7e9a at u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com in comp.lang.python:

> the information about the error is a windows dump.

This may help:

# http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms680621(VS.85).aspx

SEM_FAILCRITICALERRORS = 1
SEM_NOALIGNMENTFAULTEXCEPT = 4
SEM_NOGPFAULTERRORBOX = 4
SEM_NOOPENFILEERRORBOX = 8


import ctypes
from ctypes.wintypes import UINT

SetErrorMode = ctypes.windll.kernel32.SetErrorMode
SetErrorMode.restype = UINT
SetErrorMode.argtypes = ( UINT,)

Then putting:

SetErrorMode( SEM_FAILCRITICALERRORS | SEM_NOGPFAULTERRORBOX )

at the start of you programme, should stop the "Critical Error" dialog 
box you are seeing and you may get a chance to see a traceback.

Rob.


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 17:49:38 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:49:38 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2468.1266014309.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2468.1266014309.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4lqa$sc0$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Antoine Pitrou:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:12:06 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit :
>> Steven talks about the standard meaning of "pass by reference".
> 
> See my answer to Steve's message. You can't postulate a "standard 
> meaning" of "pass by reference" independently of the specificities of 
> each language.

Agreed. See e.g. my discussion of C versus C# in the article you responded to.


> For example a "variable" in Python means something 
> different than in non-object languages; it is impossible to have an 
> agnostic definition.

It's possible and relatively speaking easy, but it's bound up with such a tangle 
of terminological and religious issues that it's best not discussed here. :-(

But if you find/have a description that helps you understand what's going on, 
and that correctly predicts the effect of code, then just Use It. :-)

After all, learning some "simpler" description would at that point just be more 
work.


> In Python and other true object languages, the operations on references 
> (especially assignment) don't have the same semantics as in more archaic 
> languages. This is no reason, IMO, to refuse using the term "pass by 
> reference". The state of art in computing languages evolves, and it 
> wouldn't be constructive to remain stuck with definitions from the 1960s.

The main reason for not using that term for Python is that "pass by reference" 
has the extremely strong connotation of being able to implement 'swap'.

And since there already is adequate standard terminology, why confuse things.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 12 18:18:48 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:18:48 +1300
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl4nko$ti9$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> def swap(a, b):
>     a, b = b, a
> 
> x = 1
> y = 2
> swap(x, y)
> assert (x == 2) and (y==1)

Can't the same point be more simply made with this example:

def setval(a):
     a = 12345

x = 1
setval(x)
print x

?


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 18:26:57 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:26:57 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4nko$ti9$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4nko$ti9$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hl4o4e$hfn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gib Bogle wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> def swap(a, b):
>>     a, b = b, a
>>
>> x = 1
>> y = 2
>> swap(x, y)
>> assert (x == 2) and (y==1)
> 
> Can't the same point be more simply made with this example:
> 
> def setval(a):
>     a = 12345
> 
> x = 1
> setval(x)
> print x
> 
Yes, and it will doubtless be subject to exactly the same bogus refutations.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Feb 12 18:30:12 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:30:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2468.1266014309.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl4lqa$sc0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4oa4$iak$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:49:38 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit?:
> 
> The main reason for not using that term for Python is that "pass by
> reference" has the extremely strong connotation of being able to
> implement 'swap'.

But 'swap' is so easy to write as a one-line statement that it's foolish 
to want to make a Python function for it...

cheers

Antoine.




From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 18:47:56 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:47:56 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
>>
>> The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
>> the person you're debating with.
> 
> As negative as accusing somebody of intentionally lying?
> 
> Or is it only a personal attack when other people dare to disagree with 
> Alf P. Steinbach?

Do you mean that everybody else is allowed to get personal, but I, in return, am 
not so allowed?


>> In addition, your statement about the earlier attacks on me, is untrue,
>> and your implication that it's only about attacks on me, is untrue. Both
>> of which are very misleading, by the way. I'm assuming that you're
>> intentionally lying.
> 
> Get over yourself. You're not so important that everyone is falling over 
> themselves to discredit you by intentional lying.

This implies something about my beliefs about my importance, that is, it is 
clearly intended as an ad hominem attack.

I'm getting a bit tired of that.



> You do bring some technical knowledge and perspectives that is valuable to
> this community, but it comes with so much spikiness, near-paranoia and
> Freudian projection that it is extremely unpleasant dealing with you.
> 
> Since you first came to this community, you have displayed a remarkable 
> ability to take personal offence at virtually every disagreement,

That is not true.

I do take offense at pure personal attacks, though.

Personal attacks are about person, technical discussion is about technical things.



> a deeply paranoid viewpoint that whenever somebody contradicts your 
> statements they are deliberately lying,

That's just stupid, sorry.

Being paranoid is not about being attacked, or about pointing out when someone's 
lying.

Hello.


> and a level of arrogance that is 
> outstanding even for computer science. (How sure of yourself do you have 
> to be to write a textbook for beginners in a language that you yourself 
> are a self-professed beginner in?)
> 
> I note with interest that this is not the only forum where your reaction 
> to disagreement is to accuse others of deliberate lying.

Your argument gets a bit circular.



> It is a habit of yours,

That is untrue.


> and you've displayed it frequently

No, that is untrue.


> and repeatedly.

Yes, I have repeatedly pointed when people have been lying, citing the evidence 
and logic leading to that conclusion.

I wouldn't just "accuse" someone of something like that.

It's far too serious (however, above you're happy with accusing me of being 
paranoid and whatever, so I conclude that you have no such qualms).


> For example:
> 
> http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/General/comp.programming/2006-08/msg00139.html
> 
> http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/43780-20.php
> 
> http://groups.google.am/group/comp.lang.c++/browse_thread/thread/555331f8dd594837

Yes, I've been on the net a long time, and consequently I have been involved in 
flame wars. :-)[1]

That is no excuse for your behavior.

An extremely long thread dedicated to the notion that there are no references in 
Python (which is blatantly false), coupled with personal attacks on the one 
person arguing that there are. I could easily think that you were having me on. 
Of course most anyone else who'd hold the rational opinion would not join the 
battlefield, because it clearly wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating 
anyone, but I feel that follow-ups to my articles should be answered.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


Notes:
[1]  Like one here where some guy A objects to some other guy B's use of the 
term "portable assembler" about C, where at first I try to defend B's point of 
view, since it is after all one employed even by the creators of C. B sensibly 
opts out of the discussion while I stay on, predictable result. Another flame 
war is with some functional programming fanatic, and a third with a known troll.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Feb 12 18:55:42 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:55:42 +1300
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <0385b53b$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>	<mailman.2458.1266005196.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0385b53b$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7tm7g9Fu56U1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Python's calling convention already has an well-established name, 
> established over thirty years ago by the distinguished computer scientist 
> Barbara Liskov, namely call-by-sharing.

And she was mistaken in thinking it needed a new name.

-- 
Greg


From jim.hefferon at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:02:12 2010
From: jim.hefferon at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:02:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkq0aj$v4s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b712919$0$6584$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hkvc20$3gu$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <f260b87f-58d2-4f74-ba0a-2bc9a31666fc@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

I want to thank everyone for the help, which I found very useful (the
parts that I understood :-) ).

Since I think there was some question, it happens that I am working
under django and submitting a certain form triggers an html mail.  I
wanted to validate the html in some of my unit tests.  It is only
about 30 lines of html so I think I'll take a pass on automated html
generation, but FWIW the intolerant parser found a couple of errors.

Thanks again,
Jim


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:05:45 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:05:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2465.1266012634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6aa571f-f051-4ded-b499-16fbcf6dddb3@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 4:10?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :

On Feb 12, 4:10?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :

Steve,
Why do so many of your posts come in as doubles and triples. Is this a
case of "studdering click finger" of some fault of your newsreader?

-- concerned fellow pythonista...


From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:18:43 2010
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:18:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Configuring apache to execute python scripts using mod_python
	handler
References: <f598914f1002120908h5f179774g6327ad0860166640@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl4r53$o16$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:08:59 -0400, Juan Carlos Rodriguez wrote:

Hello Juan Carlos,

You're better off raising this on the mod_python list, however...

Python is looking for a module called mptest, and cannot find it.

Have you created the mptest.py module? (It should contain the handler function 
in your item (2)).

Is it on the python path used by the webserver?  See for example the last post
at 
http://forums.devshed.com/apache-development-15/installing-python-on-apache-42184.html 
which shows how you can set up the path.

Cheers, 

Kev




From m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu  Fri Feb 12 19:21:22 2010
From: m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu (Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:21:22 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
Message-ID: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>

Dear group:

I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.

Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...

Thanks,
Angelica.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:31:15 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:31:15 -0600
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4oa4$iak$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2468.1266014309.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl4lqa$sc0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl4oa4$iak$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl4rso$r6d$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-12 17:30 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:49:38 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit :
>>
>> The main reason for not using that term for Python is that "pass by
>> reference" has the extremely strong connotation of being able to
>> implement 'swap'.
>
> But 'swap' is so easy to write as a one-line statement that it's foolish
> to want to make a Python function for it...

Yes, but that's besides the point. The exercise at hand is to classify the 
semantic behavior of the function call syntax with respect to its arguments. 
Being able to implement swap() as a function is a distinguishing feature of the 
kind of function call semantics that the computer science community has named 
"call by reference."

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 19:35:19 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 16:35:19 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.pyt
	<mailman.2085.1265546107.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4s47$3g7$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2085.1265546107.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>bartc wrote:
>> "Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:m28wb6ypfs.fsf at googlemail.com...
>>> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:
>>>> 
>>>> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
>>>> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
>>>> separate functions.
>>>
>>> Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.
>> 
>> I've just noticed that 'literal' part. But I think I still disagree.
>> 
>> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a
>> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should
>> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it
>> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.
> 
>Congratulations.  That has to be the most bogus analogy I've seen on
>c.l.py this year.

Aww, c'mon, it's less than two months into the year, don't be so
hyperbolic.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 19:41:16 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:41:16 -0300
Subject: pyparsing wrong output
References: <692c428f1002120541n6b3aabb0jb62c50f90715f38e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71iu22px6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:41:40 -0300, Eknath Venkataramani  
<eknath.iyer at gmail.com> escribi?:

> I am trying to write a parser in pyparsing.
> Help Me. http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177078/ is the code and this is  
> input
> file: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177076/ .
> I get output as:
> <generator object at 0xb723b80c>

There is nothing wrong with pyparsing here. scanString() returns a  
generator, like this:

py> g = (x for x in range(20) if x % 3 == 1)
py> g
<generator object <genexpr> at 0x00E50D78>

A generator is like a function that may be suspended and restarted. It  
yields one value at a time, and only runs when you ask for the next value:

py> next(g)
1
py> next(g)
4

You may use a `for` loop to consume the generator:

py> for i in g:
...   print i
...
7
10
13
16
19

Once it run to exhaustion, asking for more elements always raises  
StopIteration:

py> next(g)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
StopIteration

Try something like this:

results = x.scanString(filedata)
for result in results:
     print result

See http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#generators

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Fri Feb 12 19:44:57 2010
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:44:57 -0800
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>

A 32 bit app can only use 4 GB of memory itself (regardless of the amount of
system ram), the OS claims some of this for the system, dlls occupy some of
it, etc. As such, the app can only really use a smaller subset (generally
between 2 to 3 GB, depending upon the app and the OS).

Chris


On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica <
m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu> wrote:

> Dear group:
>
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount
> of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low,
> but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python
> always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2
> GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4
> GB... I'm amazed.
>
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I
> typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me
> nothing I can use...
>
> Thanks,
> Angelica.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 19:45:02 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:45:02 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl
	2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4smt$st0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[...]
> Of course most anyone else who'd hold the
> rational opinion would not join the battlefield, because it clearly
> wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating anyone, but I feel that
> follow-ups to my articles should be answered.
> 
In other words, you must have the last word, a behavioral characteristic
I will avoid drawing the obvious conclusions about for fear of begin
accused (yet again) of making ad hominem attacks.

I suppose you will therefore be unable to resist the temptation to
respond to this. Though I'd love to be proved wrong again.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 12 19:48:27 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:48:27 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl
	2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4ssj$t8l$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
>>>
>>> The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
>>> the person you're debating with.
>>
>> As negative as accusing somebody of intentionally lying?
>>
>> Or is it only a personal attack when other people dare to disagree 
>> with Alf P. Steinbach?
> 
> Do you mean that everybody else is allowed to get personal, but I, in 
> return, am not so allowed?
> 
> 
>>> In addition, your statement about the earlier attacks on me, is untrue,
>>> and your implication that it's only about attacks on me, is untrue. Both
>>> of which are very misleading, by the way. I'm assuming that you're
>>> intentionally lying.
>>
>> Get over yourself. You're not so important that everyone is falling 
>> over themselves to discredit you by intentional lying.
> 
> This implies something about my beliefs about my importance, that is, it 
> is clearly intended as an ad hominem attack.
> 
> I'm getting a bit tired of that.
> 
> 
> 
>> You do bring some technical knowledge and perspectives that is 
>> valuable to
>> this community, but it comes with so much spikiness, near-paranoia and
>> Freudian projection that it is extremely unpleasant dealing with you.
>>
>> Since you first came to this community, you have displayed a 
>> remarkable ability to take personal offence at virtually every 
>> disagreement,
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> I do take offense at pure personal attacks, though.
> 
> Personal attacks are about person, technical discussion is about 
> technical things.
> 
> 
> 
>> a deeply paranoid viewpoint that whenever somebody contradicts your 
>> statements they are deliberately lying,
> 
> That's just stupid, sorry.
> 
> Being paranoid is not about being attacked, or about pointing out when 
> someone's lying.
> 
> Hello.
> 
> 
>> and a level of arrogance that is outstanding even for computer 
>> science. (How sure of yourself do you have to be to write a textbook 
>> for beginners in a language that you yourself are a self-professed 
>> beginner in?)
>>
>> I note with interest that this is not the only forum where your 
>> reaction to disagreement is to accuse others of deliberate lying.
> 
> Your argument gets a bit circular.
> 
> 
> 
>> It is a habit of yours,
> 
> That is untrue.
> 
> 
>> and you've displayed it frequently
> 
> No, that is untrue.
> 
> 
>> and repeatedly.
> 
> Yes, I have repeatedly pointed when people have been lying, citing the 
> evidence and logic leading to that conclusion.
> 
> I wouldn't just "accuse" someone of something like that.
> 
> It's far too serious (however, above you're happy with accusing me of 
> being paranoid and whatever, so I conclude that you have no such qualms).
> 
> 
>> For example:
>>
>> http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/General/comp.programming/2006-08/msg00139.html 
>>
>>
>> http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/43780-20.php
>>
>> http://groups.google.am/group/comp.lang.c++/browse_thread/thread/555331f8dd594837 
>>
> 
> Yes, I've been on the net a long time, and consequently I have been 
> involved in flame wars. :-)[1]
> 
> That is no excuse for your behavior.
> 
> An extremely long thread dedicated to the notion that there are no 
> references in Python (which is blatantly false), coupled with personal 
> attacks on the one person arguing that there are. I could easily think 
> that you were having me on. Of course most anyone else who'd hold the 
> rational opinion would not join the battlefield, because it clearly 
> wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating anyone, but I feel that 
> follow-ups to my articles should be answered.
> 
> 
> Cheers & hth.,
> 
> - Alf
> 
> 
> Notes:
> [1]  Like one here where some guy A objects to some other guy B's use of 
> the term "portable assembler" about C, where at first I try to defend 
> B's point of view, since it is after all one employed even by the 
> creators of C. B sensibly opts out of the discussion while I stay on, 
> predictable result. Another flame war is with some functional 
> programming fanatic, and a third with a known troll.

I'm intrigued by your comments over the last couple of weeks, as you 
obviously know so much more about Python than people who have been 
working on it and/or using it for the 20 odd years of the existence of 
the language.  Is it safe to assume that shortly you will be telling the 
scientific community that Einstein was a complete bozo and that his 
theory of relativity is crap, or that Stephen (Bob?) Hawking knows 
nothing about the origins of the universe?

To put it another way, please stand up Alf, your voice is rather 
muffled.  And this isn't an ad hominem attack, whatever the hell that 
means, I (NOTE I ) personally wish you'd bugger off and leave the 
bandwidth to people who genuinely want to discuss Python, computing 
algorithms, whatever.

And please do NOT bother to reply.  Your pathetic smileys and/or HTH 
garbage cut no ice with me.  I'm quite simply staggered that the Python 
community as a whole have shown far more patience than I have, otherwise 
you'd have been shot down in seriously bad flames days ago.

To you, Alf, get stuffed.

To the rest of the Python community, thank you for doing a fantastic 
job, I do appreciate it, and am currently in my own little way 
attempting to put something back in.

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Feb 12 19:55:46 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:55:46 +1300
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2467.1266013673.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B75D1B9.1050809@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.2467.1266013673.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tmb0tFektU1@mid.individual.net>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:

> It's just that assignment ("=") means a different thing in Python than in 
> non-object languages (or fake-object languages such as C++ or PHP): it 
> rebinds instead of mutating in-place.  If it mutated, you wouldn't have
> the AssertionError.

It doesn't really have anything to do with assignment semantics.
The essence of pass-by-reference is that the formal parameter
name becomes an alias for the actual parameter in all respects.
Whatever the semantics of assignment, you can come up with
variations of the language that either do or don't support
pass-by-reference in this sense. It's an orthogonal issue.

-- 
Greg


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:58:26 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:58:26 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <6546CE32-E9EA-4E33-9C7B-8A9808A4A083@gmail.com>


On Feb 12, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:

> Dear group:
> 
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
> 
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...

How are you determining that it has occupied "exactly only 2.2GB?" 

S



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 12 20:00:47 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:00:47 +0000
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <hl4tjm$utk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:
> Dear group:
> 
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
> 
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...
> 
> Thanks,
> Angelica.
Please check the archives for the thread Please help with MemoryError, 
it was only posted a day or two back.  It's a problem specific to Windows.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 20:03:04 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:03:04 -0300
Subject: Helpp I want view page .py on apache WHAT CAN I DO???????????????
References: <f598914f1002120934u756ccadfm817da4a43e341154@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71jvefwx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

Hola!

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:34:33 -0300, Juan Carlos Rodriguez  
<jcquevedo84 at gmail.com> escribi?:

> ImportError: No module named mptest

Hay una lista en castellano sobre Python:
http://python.org.ar/pyar/ListaDeCorreo

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 20:06:49 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 17:06:49 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b743340$0$20738$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hl4tv9$190$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b743340$0$20738$426a74cc at news.free.fr>,
Bruno Desthuilliers  <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>
>Ever read "worst is better" ?-)

Nope -- maybe you mean "worse is better"?

http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html

(Nitpicking because you need the correct term to search.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Feb 12 20:14:46 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:14:46 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002121714u4c2b3c84n98354d9800c7c505@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
<m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu> wrote:
> Dear group:
>
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
>
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...
>
> Thanks,
> Angelica.


There's nothing you can do in Python to fix it. A MemoryError means
that Python asked the OS to malloc something and it refused to give it
any more memory. In this case, it's because Windows will only allocate
2GB of RAM to a single process. There is a way to extend that to 3GB,
but I don't quite understand how to do it- something about setting
linker flags. Easiest way to handle this would be to switch to a
64-bit Python on a 64-bit platform. That way, you can use up to 8TB of
memory.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx#memory_limits

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 20:29:42 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:29:42 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2477.1266022127.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl	2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2477.1266022127.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4v6f$bh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Mark Lawrence:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>
>> An extremely long thread dedicated to the notion that there are no 
>> references in Python (which is blatantly false), coupled with personal 
>> attacks on the one person arguing that there are. I could easily think 
>> that you were having me on. Of course most anyone else who'd hold the 
>> rational opinion would not join the battlefield, because it clearly 
>> wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating anyone, but I feel that 
>> follow-ups to my articles should be answered.
[snippety]
> 
> I'm intrigued by your comments over the last couple of weeks, as you 
> obviously know so much more about Python than people who have been 
> working on it and/or using it for the 20 odd years of the existence of 
> the language.

I don't.

On the other hand, it's a fallacy to think other people must be perfect.

The glossary of my Python 3.1.1 documentation defines

   "Reference count:
   The number of references to an object. [...]"

And so arguing against the existence of assignable references in Python would be 
silly if it was a genuine technical discussion.

But I suspect that, in spite of my /first article's/ reference and frequent 
later references to term definitions etc., many who posted in this thread 
thought they were arguing against some other point of view, in the frenzy not 
bothering to check out things or actually /read/ what they replied to.

So, as demonstrated, assuming that you were referring to people participating in 
this thread, people who have used a language for 20 odd years can still be wrong 
about something  --  even when that something is utterly trivial.


>  Is it safe to assume that shortly you will be telling the 
> scientific community that Einstein was a complete bozo and that his 
> theory of relativity is crap, or that Stephen (Bob?) Hawking knows 
> nothing about the origins of the universe?
> 
> To put it another way, please stand up Alf, your voice is rather 
> muffled.  And this isn't an ad hominem attack

Your response *is not* a personal attack?

Then why are you trying to imply all kinds of things about my person, and not 
mentioning anything technical?

Is there anything in the above, about assignable references, that you really 
think is on a par with relativity and requires Einstein's genius to understand?


>, whatever the hell that 
> means, I (NOTE I ) personally wish you'd bugger off and leave the 
> bandwidth to people who genuinely want to discuss Python, computing 
> algorithms, whatever.
> 
> And please do NOT bother to reply.  Your pathetic smileys and/or HTH 
> garbage cut no ice with me.  I'm quite simply staggered that the Python 
> community as a whole have shown far more patience than I have, otherwise 
> you'd have been shot down in seriously bad flames days ago.
> 
> To you, Alf, get stuffed.

Are you sure that this is not a personal attack?

Just curious how you manage to think it couldn't be.


Cheers & hth., ;-)

- Alf


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 20:32:26 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 17:32:26 -0800
Subject: Calendar GUI
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2069.1265506605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<GaCdndFHyMHXgu3WnZ2dnUVZ_q1i4p2d@wavecable.com>
Message-ID: <hl4vfa$eqo$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <GaCdndFHyMHXgu3WnZ2dnUVZ_q1i4p2d at wavecable.com>,
 <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote:
>
>Take a look at wxscheduler, and chandler.

You're joking about Chandler, right?  
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 20:36:42 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:36:42 -0300
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2ob2$3ib$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2422.1265961504.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl3o7g$l12$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71lfgzgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:22:40 -0300, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> escribi?:

> In article <mailman.2422.1265961504.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> On 11 Feb 2010 21:18:26 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>> following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>> In article <mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list at python.org>,
>>> Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the  
>>>> difference
>>>> is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).
>>>
>>> Perhaps, but I've also found that ctrl-C doesn't work on Windows.
>>
>> 	Unless the running program makes an I/O call to the console, I don't
>> think <ctrl-c> gets past the device driver... <G>
>
> That's probably it.  It's more annoying for me because I run Windows with
> a VM on a Mac, which doesn't have ctrl-break.

On a "real" PC with Windows XP SP3 and Python 2.6.4, with an idle server,  
just hitting Ctrl-C was enough:

D:\temp>python -m SimpleXMLRPCServer
Running XML-RPC server on port 8000
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "d:\apps\python26\lib\runpy.py", line 122, in _run_module_as_main
     "__main__", fname, loader, pkg_name)
   File "d:\apps\python26\lib\runpy.py", line 34, in _run_code
     exec code in run_globals
   File "d:\apps\python26\lib\SimpleXMLRPCServer.py", line 615, in <module>
     server.serve_forever()
   File "d:\apps\python26\lib\SocketServer.py", line 224, in serve_forever
     r, w, e = select.select([self], [], [], poll_interval)
KeyboardInterrupt

A slightly more realistic example: a busy, single threaded server. I had  
to hit Ctrl-C twice: the first time, KeyboardInterrupt was sent as a Fault  
response to the client.


import sys

def busy():
     x = 50000
     y = x**x
     return "Ok"

if sys.argv[1]=='server':
     import SimpleXMLRPCServer
     server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("localhost",  
8000),logRequests=False)
     server.register_function(busy)
     server.serve_forever()
else:
   import xmlrpclib
   proxy = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:8000/")
   while True:
     print "client", proxy.busy()


Maybe the OP's code containes a bare 'except:' clause that swallows  
KeyboardInterrupt, or the server is so busy that is always executing a  
function handler (and all KeyboardInterrupt become Fault and are sent as a  
function response).

Mmm, perhaps that's a bug, a KeyboardInterrupt should bubble up to the  
server code, not being treated as an error in computing the function  
result.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 20:42:59 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:42:59 +0100
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <hl5032$4ie$1@ger.gmane.org>

Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:
> Dear group:
> 
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.

The amount of RAM in your boxes is unrelated to your issue. A 32bit
process is able to address only 4GB of virtual memory because it has no
way to access memory addresses beyond the 32bit border. Large amount of
the address space are reserved for multiple purposes like error checking
(e.g. the NULL pointer), the entry point of the program, its stack and
address space for reallocating dynamic linked libraries. On modern Linux
systems the space for the heap is about 2.6 to 2.7 GB large. The heap is
the memory segment used by malloc() and friends. It looks like the
memory segment for the heap is slightly smaller on Windows.

Virtual memory isn't the same as resident memory. A program may only
occupy 100 MB in your RAM (resident memory) but it may use 1.5 GB of
virtual memory. Virtual memory takes memory fragmentation and unused
pages into account. If you malloc() 1 GB memory but just file up the
first byte your program requires 1 GB of virtual memory but only a few
KB resident memory. At least that's the story on Linux and several other
Unix-like OSes. I'm not sure how Windows deals with memory.

If your program needs more than 2 GB of RAM you should switch to a 64bit
OS and a 64bit version of Python. Windows AMD64 builds for Python are
available on python.

Christian



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 20:48:30 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:48:30 -0300
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:29:12 -0300, Arnaud Delobelle  
<arnodel at googlemail.com> escribi?:

> I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
> couple of days ago:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html

Ouch! I didn't see your post, nor several other earlier posts in this  
thread. In fact, I thought mine was the *first* reply when I wrote it!

Yes, of course, your code does exactly that without any bytecode hacks.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 21:08:49 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:08:49 -0300
Subject: Pixel control
References: <880fa1d41002041457v44b7c4ddobe79db5fc7c9ebd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<880fa1d41002121112r4e8c1550xf32cdea17a2bfeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71mwzoax6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:12:37 -0300, joao abrantes  
<senhor.abrantes at gmail.com> escribi?:

> noone knows if it's possible? i really need this..
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:57 PM, joao abrantes  
> <senhor.abrantes at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone. For example i am using a screen resolution of 800x600  
>> is it
>> possible to make python control the color of the pixels? For example  
>> paint
>> the pixel (100,200) in red! And it would stay red when i am seeing a
>> webpage, a movie, playing a game... etc..

First investigate how you could do such thing using whichever technology  
is needed, and only then, ask how you could do *that* in Python.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gre1600 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 21:18:26 2010
From: gre1600 at gmail.com (felix gao)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:18:26 -0800
Subject: ConfigParser is not parsing
Message-ID: <fb5c35f01002121818tcb81242sdf572cdf296d468b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am trying to get the some configuration file read in by Python, however,
after the read command it return a list with the filename that I passed in.
what is going on?

Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Jul  7 2009, 23:51:51)
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import ConfigParser
>>> p = ConfigParser.SafeConfigParser()
>>> cfg = p.read("S3Files.conf")
>>> cfg
['S3Files.conf']


 cat S3Files.conf
[main]
taskName=FileConfigDriver
lastProcessed=2010-01-31
dateFromat=%Y-%m-%d
skippingValue=86400
skippingInterval=seconds

Thanks in advance.
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From rantingrick at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 21:23:46 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:23:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<hl 2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr> 
	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2477.1266022127.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl4v6f$bh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <5e12bb21-f1bc-4b43-a6ed-650d1c018e5d@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

This entire thread has imploded like a neutron star into an infantile
debate that only Caddie Couric, Bill O Reilly, and everyone on PMS-NBC
can hold a candle to! The only post i enjoyed was Steve Howes!

>From my unique perspective of not really knowing (or for that matter)
really caring about any of you i can say *some* of you have most
undoubly shown your true colors in this thread!

First of all, we all know how D Aprano has such an unfettered ego
problem. I myself have been the victom of his insults but
simultaniously also found them quite enjoyable (at times) I'd classify
Steven d'Aprano as a "well informed" arsehole with an inner clown
trying to escape.

Then there is "alex23". The only sockpuppet (of many suspects within
this group) that i can 100 percent prove and of whom i knew sooner or
later would come along for his chance at trolling. Just look at his GG
cache and you will see 99% of his post are argmentitve, abusive
trolls! He's a fish that waits for threads like these just so he can
flop around!

As for Alf, no he is not *tecnically* right about the definition of
"ad homine" but that *really* doesn't matter. He has (time and time
again) been personally attacked by some of the more "supposedly
respected" people in this group. And as always the roaches start
coming out of the woodwork in a most "pathetic puppy dog" way. What
would you puppets do if there were no one to pull your strings?

But the most nortoriuos behavior of all belongs to none other that the
PSF chairman himself! Yes "Steve Holden", you should be ashamed of
yourself! Your attacks have been more amd more destructive over the
past year or so. Even if your behavoir could "somehow" be justified
how can someone in your position lead the PSF and act as such an
infintile way? I am very ashamed of you Steve and you really owe Alf
(and the community at large) an apology although i doubt it will
happen because then your own people will turn against you.

I have documented the bad behavours of certain "pythonistas" on this
group for some time now. And my original assumtions that only a
handful of people really follow this group. Maybe one day we will have
a fair playing feild for all but sadly it looks to be more like a pipe
dream!

Sleep well kids!


From darkrho at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 21:28:32 2010
From: darkrho at gmail.com (Rolando Espinoza La Fuente)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:28:32 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser is not parsing
In-Reply-To: <fb5c35f01002121818tcb81242sdf572cdf296d468b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fb5c35f01002121818tcb81242sdf572cdf296d468b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4eca3f41002121828x494c3dere60e9c96b71a27ef@mail.gmail.com>

read() does not return the config object

>>> import ConfigParser
>>> config = ConfigParser.SafeConfigParser()
>>> config.read('S3Files.conf')
['S3Files.conf']
>>> config.sections()
['main']
>>> config.get('main', 'taskName')
'FileConfigDriver'

Regards,

Rolando Espinoza La fuente
www.rolandoespinoza.info



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:18 PM, felix gao <gre1600 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am trying to get the some configuration file read in by Python, however,
> after the read command it return a list with the filename that I passed in.
> what is going on?
> Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Jul ?7 2009, 23:51:51)
> [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import ConfigParser
>>>> p = ConfigParser.SafeConfigParser()
>>>> cfg = p.read("S3Files.conf")
>>>> cfg
> ['S3Files.conf']
>
> ?cat S3Files.conf
> [main]
> taskName=FileConfigDriver
> lastProcessed=2010-01-31
> dateFromat=%Y-%m-%d
> skippingValue=86400
> skippingInterval=seconds
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 22:57:08 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:57:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: fork vs threading.Thread
Message-ID: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to run two servers in the same program at once.  Here are
the two:
class TftpServJ(Thread):
    def __init__(self, ip, root, port=69, debug = False ):
        Thread.__init__(self)
        setup stuff here

    def run(self):
        try:
            self.server.listen(self.ip, self.port)
        except KeyboardInterrupt:
            pass

and
class XMLServer(Thread):
    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key):
        Thread.__init__(self)
         setup stuff

    def run(self):
        self.server.serve_forever()


I call them as:
tftpserv = TftpServJ(host, "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/xmlrpc_server/
server")
tftpserv.run()
xmlserv = XMLServer(host, port, HostID, key)
xmlserv.run()


it seems that tftpserv runs but wont go on to spawn xmlserv as well.
do I need to fork if I want both these to run at the same time?  It
was my impression that by using Thread execution in the main program
would continue.





From sccolbert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 23:15:37 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:15:37 -0500
Subject: fork vs threading.Thread
In-Reply-To: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002122015g4786d0e8g7993dd4433b1bba8@mail.gmail.com>

dont call the .run() method, call the .start() method which is defined the
Thread class (and should NOT be overridden).

tftpserv.start()

xmlserv.start()



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Jordan Apgar <twistedphrame at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm trying to run two servers in the same program at once.  Here are
> the two:
> class TftpServJ(Thread):
>    def __init__(self, ip, root, port=69, debug = False ):
>        Thread.__init__(self)
>        setup stuff here
>
>    def run(self):
>        try:
>            self.server.listen(self.ip, self.port)
>        except KeyboardInterrupt:
>            pass
>
> and
> class XMLServer(Thread):
>    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key):
>        Thread.__init__(self)
>         setup stuff
>
>    def run(self):
>        self.server.serve_forever()
>
>
> I call them as:
> tftpserv = TftpServJ(host, "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/xmlrpc_server/
> server")
> tftpserv.run()
> xmlserv = XMLServer(host, port, HostID, key)
> xmlserv.run()
>
>
> it seems that tftpserv runs but wont go on to spawn xmlserv as well.
> do I need to fork if I want both these to run at the same time?  It
> was my impression that by using Thread execution in the main program
> would continue.
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 23:25:23 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 05:25:23 +0100
Subject: fork vs threading.Thread
In-Reply-To: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl59fr$gm2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Jordan Apgar:
> I'm trying to run two servers in the same program at once.  Here are
> the two:
> class TftpServJ(Thread):
>     def __init__(self, ip, root, port=69, debug = False ):
>         Thread.__init__(self)
>         setup stuff here
> 
>     def run(self):
>         try:
>             self.server.listen(self.ip, self.port)
>         except KeyboardInterrupt:
>             pass
> 
> and
> class XMLServer(Thread):
>     def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key):
>         Thread.__init__(self)
>          setup stuff
> 
>     def run(self):
>         self.server.serve_forever()
> 
> 
> I call them as:
> tftpserv = TftpServJ(host, "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/xmlrpc_server/
> server")
> tftpserv.run()
> xmlserv = XMLServer(host, port, HostID, key)
> xmlserv.run()

Here you're just calling the tftpserv.run method directly, not on a separate thread.

So it blocks until it's finished (which probably is never?).

Instead, try using

   tftpserv.start()


According to the docs, "It [the start method] must be called at most once per 
thread object. It arranges for the object?s run() method to be invoked in a 
separate thread of control."

You may have to decide on how you want your program to terminate, if you want that.



> 
> 
> it seems that tftpserv runs but wont go on to spawn xmlserv as well.
> do I need to fork if I want both these to run at the same time?  It
> was my impression that by using Thread execution in the main program
> would continue.

See above.

Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From nagle at animats.com  Sat Feb 13 00:16:51 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:16:51 -0800
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b7631ee$0$1638$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

kj wrote:

>>> =A0 x =3D '%s' % y
>>> =A0 x =3D '%s' % z
>>> =A0 print y
>>> =A0 print z
>>> =A0 print y, z

     Bear in mind that most Python implementations assume the "console"
only handles ASCII.  So "print" output is converted to ASCII, which
can fail. (Actually, all modern Windows and Linux systems support
Unicode consoles, but Python somehow doesn't get this.)

				John Nagle


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sat Feb 13 00:28:03 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:28:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: pyparsing wrong output
References: <692c428f1002120541n6b3aabb0jb62c50f90715f38e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2474.1266021681.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <879e832b-e211-4bfd-a239-40b583a0a1d1@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 6:41?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-... at yahoo.com.ar>
wrote:
> En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:41:40 -0300, Eknath Venkataramani ?
> <eknath.i... at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
> > I am trying to write a parser in pyparsing.
> > Help Me.http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177078/is the code and this is ?
> > input
> > file:http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177076/.
> > I get output as:
> > <generator object at 0xb723b80c>
>
> There is nothing wrong with pyparsing here. scanString() returns a ?
> generator, like this:
>
> py> g = (x for x in range(20) if x % 3 == 1)
> py> g
> <generator object <genexpr> at 0x00E50D78>
>
Unfortunately, your grammar doesn't match the input text, so your
generator doesn't return anything.

I think you are taking sort of brute force approach to this problem,
and you need to think a little more abstractly.  You can't just pick a
fragment and then write an expression for it, and then the next and
then stitch them together - well you *can* but it helps to think both
abstract and concrete at the same time.

With the exception of your one key of "\'", this is a pretty basic
recursive grammar.  Recursive grammars are a little complicated to
start with, so I'll start with a non-recursive part.  And I'll work
more bottom-up or inside-out.

Let's start by looking at these items:

    count => 8,
    baajaar => 0.87628353,
    kiraae => 0.02341598,
    lii => 0.02178813,
    adr => 0.01978462,
    gyiimn => 0.01765590,

Each item has a name (which you called "eng", so I'll keep that
expression), a '=>' and *something*.  In the end, we won't really care
about the '=>' strings, they aren't really part of the keys or the
associated values, they are just delimiting strings - they are
important during parsing, but afterwards we don't really care about
them.  So we'll start with a pyparsing expression for this:

    keyval = eng + Suppress('=>') + something

Sometimes, the something is an integer, sometimes it's a floating
point number.  I'll define some more generic forms for these than your
original number, and a separate expression for a real number:

    integer = Combine(Optional('-') + Word(nums))
    realnum = Combine(Optional('-') + Word(nums) + '.' + Word(nums))

When we parse for these two, we need to be careful to check for a
realnum before an integer, so that we don't accidentally parse the
leading of "3.1415" as the integer "3".

    something = realnum | integer

So now we can parse this fragment using a delimitedList expression
(which takes care of the intervening commas, and also suppresses them
from the results:

    filedata = """
        count => 8,
        baajaar => 0.87628353,
        kiraae => 0.02341598,
        lii => 0.02178813,
        adr => 0.01978462,
        gyiimn => 0.01765590,"""
    print delimitedList(keyval).parseString(filedata)

Gives:
    ['count', '8', 'baajaar', '0.87628353', 'kiraae', '0.02341598',
     'lii', '0.02178813', 'adr', '0.01978462', 'gyiimn', '0.01765590']

Right off the bat, we see that we want a little more structure to
these results, so that the keys and values are grouped naturally by
the parser.  The easy way to do this is with Group, as in:

    keyval = Group(eng + Suppress('=>') + something)

With this one change, we now get:

    [['count', '8'], ['baajaar', '0.87628353'],
     ['kiraae', '0.02341598'], ['lii', '0.02178813'],
     ['adr', '0.01978462'], ['gyiimn', '0.01765590']]

Now we need to add the recursive part of your grammar.  A nested input
looks like:

    confident => {
      count => 4,
      trans => {
        ashhvsht => 0.75100505,
        phraarmnbh => 0.08341708,
        },
    },

So in addition to integers and reals, our "something" could also be a
nested list of keyvals:

    something = realnum | integer | (lparen + delimitedList(keyval) +
rparen)

This is *almost* right, with just a couple of tweaks:
- the list of keyvals may have a comma after the last item before the
closing '}'
- we really want to suppress the opening and closing braces (lparen
and rparen)
- for similar structure reasons, we'll enclose the list of keyvals in
a Group to retain the data hierarchy

    lparen,rparen = map(Suppress, "{}")
    something = realnum | integer |
        Group(lparen + delimitedList(keyval) + Optional(',') + rparen)

The recursive problem is that we have defined keyval using something,
and something using keyval.  You can't do that in Python.  So we use
the pyparsing class Forward to "forward" declare something:

    something = Forward()
    keyval = Group(eng + Suppress('=>') + something)

To define something as a Forward, we use the '<<' shift operator:

    something << (realnum | integer |
        Group(lparen + delimitedList(keyval) + Optional(',') +
rparen))

Our grammar now looks like:

    lparen,rparen = map(Suppress, "{}")

    something = Forward()
    keyval = Group(eng + Suppress('=>') + something)
    something << (realnum | integer |
        Group(lparen + delimitedList(keyval) + Optional(',') +
rparen))

To parse your entire input file, use a delimitedList(keyval)

    results = delimitedList(keyval).parseString(filedata)

(There is one problem - one of your keynames is "\'".  I don't know if
this is a typo or intentional.  If you need to accommodate even this
as a keyname, just change your definition of eng to Word(alphas
+r"\'").)

Now if I parse your original string, I get (using the pprint module to
format the results):

    [['markets',
      [['count', '8'],
       ['trans',
        [['baajaar', '0.87628353'],
         ['kiraae', '0.02341598'],
         ['lii', '0.02178813'],
         ['adr', '0.01978462'],
         ['gyiimn', '0.01765590'],
         ['baaaaromn', '0.01765590'],
         ['sdk', '0.01728024'],
         ['kaanuun', '0.00613574'],
         ',']],
       ',']],
     ['confident',
      [['count', '4'],
       ['trans',
        [['ashhvsht', '0.75100505'],
         ['phraarmnbh', '0.08341708'],
         ['athmvishhvaas', '0.08090452'],
         ['milte', '0.03768845'],
         ['utnii', '0.02110553'],
         ['anaa', '0.01432161'],
         ['jitne', '0.01155779'],
         ',']],
       ',']],
     ['consumers',
      [['count', '34'],
       ['trans',
        [['upbhokhtaaomn', '0.48493883'],
         ['upbhokhtaa', '0.27374792'],
         ['zrurtomn', '0.02753605'],
         ['suuchnaa', '0.02707965'],
         ['ghraahkomn', '0.02580174'],
         ['ne', '0.02574089'],
         ["\\'", '0.01947301'],
         ['jnmt', '0.01527414'],
         ',']],
       ',']]]

But there is one more card up pyparsing's sleeve.  Just as your
original parser used "english" to apply a results name to your keys,
it would be nice if our parser would return not a list of key-value
pairs, but an actual dict-like object.  Pyparsing's Dict class
enhances the results in just this way.  Use Dict to wrap our
repetitive structures, and it will automatically define results names
for us, reading the first element of each group as the key, and the
remaining items in the group as the value:

    something << (realnum | integer |
        Dict(lparen + delimitedList(keyval) +
                Optional(',').suppress() + rparen))

    results = Dict(delimitedList(keyval)).parseString(filedata)
    print results.dump()

Gives this hierarchical structure:

- confident:
  - count: 4
  - trans:
    - anaa: 0.01432161
    - ashhvsht: 0.75100505
    - athmvishhvaas: 0.08090452
    - jitne: 0.01155779
    - milte: 0.03768845
    - phraarmnbh: 0.08341708
    - utnii: 0.02110553
- consumers:
  - count: 34
  - trans:
    - \': 0.01947301
    - ghraahkomn: 0.02580174
    - jnmt: 0.01527414
    - ne: 0.02574089
    - suuchnaa: 0.02707965
    - upbhokhtaa: 0.27374792
    - upbhokhtaaomn: 0.48493883
    - zrurtomn: 0.02753605
- markets:
  - count: 8
  - trans:
    - adr: 0.01978462
    - baaaaromn: 0.01765590
    - baajaar: 0.87628353
    - gyiimn: 0.01765590
    - kaanuun: 0.00613574
    - kiraae: 0.02341598
    - lii: 0.02178813
    - sdk: 0.01728024

You can access these fields by name like dict elements:

    print results.keys()
    print results["confident"].keys()
    print results["confident"]["trans"]["jitne"]

If the names are valid Python identifiers (which "\'" is *not*), you
can access their fields like attributes of an object:

    print results.confident.trans.jitne
    for k in results.keys():
        print k, results[k].count

Prints:

    ['confident', 'markets', 'consumers']
    ['count', 'trans']
    0.01155779
    0.01155779
    confident 4
    markets 8
    consumers 34

I've posted the full program at http://pyparsing.pastebin.com/f1d0e2182.

Welcome to pyparsing!

-- Paul



From nagle at animats.com  Sat Feb 13 00:48:30 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:48:30 -0800
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b763959$0$1633$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

kj wrote:
> Some people have mathphobia.  I'm developing a wicked case of
> Unicodephobia.
> 
> I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
> that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:
> 
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

    First, you haven't told us what platform you're on.  Windows?  Linux? 
Something else?

    If you're on Windows, and running Python from the command line, try
"cmd /u" before running Python. This will get you a Windows console that
will print Unicode.  Python recognizes this, and "print" calls will
go out to the console in Unicode, which will then print the correct
characters if they're in the font being used by the Windows console.
Most European languages are covered in the standard font.

    If you're using IDLE, or some Python debugger, it may need to be
told to have its window use Unicode.

					John Nagle


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 01:32:45 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<m2zl3i3xvf.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net> 
	<96353030-0e0c-4035-ae4a-5ab475251d4b@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2356.1265879453.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a78fe0af-15bd-4dd4-8cc6-5b68377262ef@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 4:10?am, Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> On 10/02/2010 22:55, T wrote:
>
> > Great suggestions once again - I did verify that it was at least
> > running the plink.exe binary when under LocalSystem by having the
> > service run "plink.exe> ?C:\plinkoutput.txt" - this worked fine. ?And,
> > as I mentioned, it's now working just fine when running under a
> > regular admin account. ?So, I think that's going to be my solution to
> > avoid any further issues. ?My best guess at this point (as you
> > mentioned), is that plink.exe is doing _something_ network-related
> > that LocalSystem doesn't have the privileges to do - what exactly it
> > is, I have no idea. ?I may play around with it some more later, but
> > running the service under an admin account should be a perfectly
> > acceptable solution.
>
> > Also, I will be writing other Python apps that the service will be
> > executing - so it goes without saying that I'll be including a log to
> > file option :) ?Thanks again for all your guys' help!
>
> I'm not sure if this has been said already, but a reasonably common
> approach to services is to create a user specifically for the
> service and grant it exactly the privs / perms it needs (once you
> work out what they are). You then assign it a generated password,
> eg a GUID which you don't even try to remember: simply cut-and-paste
> it in. Then create the service to run under that user.
>
> That way you don't have the service running under
> some local Administrator account with the associated risk
> of its being subverted and gaining more control than you
> want. Nor do you have it running as a real user whose
> password might change for any reason, leaving you with
> a service which won't start up.
>
> I don't remember at this moment whether such a user's profile
> is automatically loaded in the process when the service starts
> or whether you have to do the LoadUserProfile thing.
>
> TJG

Tim - thanks, that's the route I'm going to go.  I've created separate
accounts for services before, and there's no question that's what I
have to do in this case. I'm still having some issues running some
commands (such as one that takes a screenshot), even as an admin user,
but I think this is more due to the fact that it's trying to interact
with the Desktop..so there may be no good solution.

Btw great site..can't tell you how many times I've gone back to it.
Keep up the great work!



From misceverything at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 01:36:44 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:36:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl109m$fos$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <10b628f5-0b85-46c4-b2ef-2a8579c10162@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 8:21?am, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
wrote:
> On 02/07/10 19:02, T wrote:
>
> > I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> > account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> > program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> > I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> > an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> > service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> > trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> > would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!
>
> All being said about LS account not having the appropriate rights to
> access the necessary devices/files.
>
> Could it be so simple that the network is plain simply not available at
> all? For wireless connections I believe the connection/authentication by
> default is made in user space. I would save the output of an ipconfig
> run as the LS account to a file and see what is happening.
> Perhaps followed by a ping.
>
> --
> mph

Martin - another part of the program sends an email back to a
specified user, and that works, so LocalSystem must at least have some
network access.  From the testing I've done so far, seems like there's
just some grey area (which I haven't completely figured out yet) of
network-related tasks that LS just can't do.  I'd love to know what
this is, but so far the solution I have is just to create another user
and have the service use that..


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Feb 13 02:01:39 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:01:39 +0000
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:21:22 -0500, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
wrote:

> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount
> of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint
> low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine,
> python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly
> only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory
> of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
> 
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I
> typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me
> nothing I can use...

A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 64-bit CPU
and OS.

If you're stuck with a 32-bit system, you really need to figure out how to
limit the amount of data which is kept in memory at any one time.



From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 02:33:09 2010
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:33:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How do you implement a Progress Bar
Message-ID: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

I would really appreciate some help with this.  I'm fairly new to
using classes...What am I doing wrong? All I get is a blank window. I
can't seem to figure out how to initialize this Progress Bar.

Thanks,
Jonathan



##############################file Meter.py####################
from Tkinter import *

class Meter(Frame):
	'''A simple progress bar widget.'''
	def __init__(self, master, fillcolor='orchid1', text='',value=0.0,
**kw):
		Frame.__init__(self, master, bg='white', width=350,height=20)
		self.configure(**kw)
		self._c = Canvas(self, bg=self['bg'],width=self['width'],
height=self['height'],highlightthickness=0, relief='flat',bd=0)
		self._c.pack(fill='x', expand=1)
		self._r = self._c.create_rectangle(0, 0, 0, int(self['height']),
fill=fillcolor, width=0)
		self._t = self._c.create_text(int(self['width'])/2,
int(self['height'])/2, text='')
		self.set(value, text)

	def set(self, value=0.0, text=None):
		#make the value failsafe:
		if value < 0.0:
			value = 0.0
		elif value > 1.0:
			value = 1.0
		if text == None:
		#if no text is specified get the default percentage string:
			text = str(int(round(100 * value))) + ' %'
			self._c.coords(self._r, 0, 0, int(self['width']) * value,
int(self['height']))
			self._c.itemconfigure(self._t, text=text)



root=Tk()
f=Meter(root)
for i in range(100):
	f.set(i,"Hello")
	print i
mainloop()


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 02:54:21 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:54:21 +0100
Subject: How do you implement a Progress Bar
In-Reply-To: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl5lnl$tcs$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* J Wolfe:
> I would really appreciate some help with this.  I'm fairly new to
> using classes...What am I doing wrong? All I get is a blank window. I
> can't seem to figure out how to initialize this Progress Bar.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> ##############################file Meter.py####################
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> class Meter(Frame):
> 	'''A simple progress bar widget.'''
> 	def __init__(self, master, fillcolor='orchid1', text='',value=0.0,
> **kw):
> 		Frame.__init__(self, master, bg='white', width=350,height=20)
> 		self.configure(**kw)
> 		self._c = Canvas(self, bg=self['bg'],width=self['width'],
> height=self['height'],highlightthickness=0, relief='flat',bd=0)
> 		self._c.pack(fill='x', expand=1)
> 		self._r = self._c.create_rectangle(0, 0, 0, int(self['height']),
> fill=fillcolor, width=0)
> 		self._t = self._c.create_text(int(self['width'])/2,
> int(self['height'])/2, text='')
> 		self.set(value, text)
> 
> 	def set(self, value=0.0, text=None):
> 		#make the value failsafe:
> 		if value < 0.0:
> 			value = 0.0
> 		elif value > 1.0:
> 			value = 1.0
> 		if text == None:
> 		#if no text is specified get the default percentage string:
> 			text = str(int(round(100 * value))) + ' %'
> 			self._c.coords(self._r, 0, 0, int(self['width']) * value,
> int(self['height']))
> 			self._c.itemconfigure(self._t, text=text)
> 
> 
> 
> root=Tk()
> f=Meter(root)

At his point the Meter widget has been created, but it's still invisible.

To make it visible you have to register it with a layout manager (in 
tkinter-speak a "geometry" manager).

A layout manager for a widget X is responsible for placing child widgets of X.

The easiest is to add, at this point,

   f.pack()

which uses the packing layout manager of the parent widget of f (not sure why 
the design is like this, but f.pack() forwards up to the parent's layout 
manager). You can add various optional parameters. Or use other layout mgr.

Take care that all child widgets of a given parent widget use the same layout 
manager, otherwise the typical result is a hang.


> for i in range(100):
> 	f.set(i,"Hello")
> 	print i

This will probably happen too fast to see, before the window is presented.

One idea might be to add a few buttons for testing things.


> mainloop()


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 03:22:19 2010
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:22:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How do you implement a Progress Bar
References: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl5lnl$tcs$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <1a5d5ff2-bd54-4a2f-a74b-b1b89dd92bc8@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Thank you Alf! Here I thought it was something wrong with my class
call, but it turns out I just needed to pack f and then use
root.update() in the loop :-) I really appreciate your help!


From half.italian at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 03:25:32 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:25:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How do you implement a Progress Bar
References: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <378c7809-1f69-4516-a4ef-b9eff4d1790a@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 11:33?pm, J Wolfe <vorticitywo... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would really appreciate some help with this. ?I'm fairly new to
> using classes...What am I doing wrong? All I get is a blank window. I
> can't seem to figure out how to initialize this Progress Bar.
>

Study and hack on this: http://uucode.com/texts/pylongopgui/pyguiapp.html

~Sean


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 04:30:37 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:30:37 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <5e12bb21-f1bc-4b43-a6ed-650d1c018e5d@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2477.1266022127.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl4v6f$bh8$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<5e12bb21-f1bc-4b43-a6ed-650d1c018e5d@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002130130x61516383va871d4018d352014@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:23 PM, rantingrick <rantingrick at gmail.com> wrote:
[blah, blah, blah]

First of all, we all know how D Aprano has such an unfettered ego
> problem.


[blah, blah, blah]

And as always the roaches start
> coming out of the woodwork in a most "pathetic puppy dog" way. What
> would you puppets do if there were no one to pull your strings?
>

[blah, blah, blah] (I'd claim an ad hominem attack, but that's just boring
these days)


> But the most nortoriuos behavior of all belongs to none other that the
> PSF chairman himself! Yes "Steve Holden", you should be ashamed of
> yourself!


[blah, BLAH, blah]


> Your attacks have been more amd more destructive over the
> past year or so. Even if your behavoir could "somehow" be justified
> how can someone in your position lead the PSF and act as such an
> infintile way?


[blah, blah, BLAH, blah]



> I am very ashamed of you Steve and you really owe Alf
> (and the community at large) an apology although i doubt it will
> happen because then your own people will turn against you.
>

Blah.

Blah.

Blah.

Grow up.

I've deliberately exited the real topic of this thread, because its clearly
degenerated to complete nonsense; while in this thread Alf argues for a
certain dogmatic theoretical "Standard" terminology that clearly many people
disagree with (supporting the 'standard' continually with a certain
language's reference manual, which by definition makes it not-standard, or
you wouldn't need to quote a certain language0, and in another he argues for
another position-- and and speaks in support of standard and understood
terminology, the two positions together are laughable nonsense. To this he
will, of course, again declare that I am simply lying.  This very
declaration clearly proves his own absurdity: you can argue in a circle for
infinity, but when you start spouting nonsense about how those opposing you
are mere liars-- ESPECIALLY-- when you have been arguing about how you have
been the terrible victim of ad hominem attacks-- your own hypocrisy makes
your words meaningless.

I've been tempted to re-enter the actual argument, its a hard one to avoid
with such clear misunderstandings held so strongly. But, I won't. Except for
my editorials here. Because I am weak. Ahem, the point is-- my chief
antagonist in the discussion has publicly stated I am a liar. This is
provably a lie unto itself, and it damns the speaker absolutely. I have
expressed my position, my thoughts, and my opinion and interpretation of my
opponents position -- and his response is, "You are a liar." or, "That is a
lie". That's a lie, a personal attack, all the while declaring his own
victimhood. You can say, "You're mistaken", but to say, "You are a liar." is
something else entirely. The chief victim of c.p.l. becomes the abuser.

Now, why am I entering this thread again? Not to discuss the issue at hand.
There's clearly no point. Alf has chosen to define language in his own way,
ignoring any weight that established industry weight might apply to such
terms. Okay. When you enter an argument of words, some people will refuse to
acknowledge their own perception of the world isn't reality. It happens.
There's no point in going forward after a certain point.

But now, this absurdity?

You are ashamed of Steve Holden for his behavior? You think he owes the
community at large an apology?

I don't mean to rise up in defense of Holden, as I'm sure he can defend
himself should he feel the need. I took offense at Alf choosing to claim the
right of defending me earlier, so I can't be a hypocrite in that.

But, really. If -this- is your position? Grow up. Seriously.

Steve Holden owes this community nothing. That which he has given should be
welcomed and he should be thanked for it. He hasn't flamed anyone; he hasn't
attacked anyone-- despite Alf's nonsense claims, though on occasion his
responses are snarky (with reason)-- he hasn't /taken/ anything from this
community. He's done far more then many in assisting people who are trying
to learn Python and embrace its community.

Frankly, how dare you claim to demand an apology for this community.

If I was to be ashamed of anyone's participation in the community, it would
be you over him. I'm not even ashamed of Alf. I don't agree with him, I
think he's got a stubborn egocentric view of terminology and semantics which
is ultimately harmful, I think he has a severe persecution complex, but
despite this-- I've seen him respond to several threads recently, helpfully,
and I don't even disagree with most of those responses.

You're just ... blabbering. Adding arbitrary, unsupported, and unsupportable
fuel to the fire to rant at some position-- how /mean/ this community is and
how /terrible/ we behave-- all without any basis at all. Except you claim
it. You document it. Gee, we're mean, mean, unhelpful people.

And no, I'm not one of "his people" who will turn on him for admitting he is
satan; if Steve Holden and I have ever been in a thread in the past -- it
was us both answering some newbie, or commenting on a topic, all
independently-- and I'm not even sure I was ever aware of it having
happened. I remember no particular conversation, ever, between him and I.

This is one of the most generally supportive technical communities I've ever
seen, even when faced with clear ignorance and people even not taking the
most basic due diligence before asking others to answer their questions. It
goes back almost a decade to when I posted more then one /really/ stupid
question to this group on some initial assumptions and thoughts-- on most
groups? Such things would be ridiculed. Here, people ask questions when the
OP's position isn't clear or if it seems they may be looking at the problem
wrong. They go out of their way to understand the use-case and details of
the question and provide solutions. They -work- to be helpful, and
supportive, with some demands-- but reasonable demands.

And you're all ashamed of our "bad behaviors".

That makes me want to say, "Well, f--- you too".

But I won't. I'll just hope you grow up and get over it and learn that hey,
communities? They are never seamless, or easy, and conflict is a part of
life. Some have very hard standards for acceptance, some try to embrace but
there's always going to be issues.

This is one of the good ones.

Deal with it.

--S
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From dino at phidev.org  Sat Feb 13 04:50:43 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:50:43 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
Message-ID: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>

Hi,

I'm looking for a module/plugin/intra-process-communication/hook system
for python. Maybe someone here could point me to some project I missed
or might have some good ideas if I end up implementing it myself.

Most systems I have found are "one to many" communications but I would
like "many to many", to clarify what I mean an *example* use-case:

        Lets say you program a wiki and like to allow different kind of
        authentications. So you create two plugins (for example one for
        OpenID and one for Shibboleth).
        
        Some time later you feel like reinventing the wheel again and
        you program a blog. Again you like to allow different ways of
        authentication and you already wrote plugins for exactly the
        same for your wiki, right?
        
With most systems now some trouble begins - the blog software would need
to have the interface/extention-points/however-you-name-it that the wiki
software defined.

The plugins you wrote probably import them from the wiki module directly
which means your blog would depend on the wiki. (?!) So where to put the
interface/[...] definition that is imported by those plugins? Create a
package/module just containing the interface? This really get
troublesome if different people wrote the wiki, the blog and another
third one a plugin.

Also it will probably break if you try to create a program that includes
(imports and uses) the wiki and the blog at the same time.

While looking for existing solutions I came across several different
implementations and approaches with different advantages and
disadvantages. To not list them all, here one representative
implementation: trac's component architecture [0] as its well but still
short documented, shares several concepts with other implementations and
I failed to see how to solve the problem described above with it.

So, what's your solution?

Thanks for reading my long mail!

Really hoping for an constructive discussion,
Florian

[0] http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracDev/ComponentArchitecture
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From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 04:53:09 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:53:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3307e656-f2da-424e-96ea-1166f05835b5@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 5:59?am, Muhammad Alkarouri <malkaro... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> inside it, other than using its explicit name?
> In a function like f below:
>
> def f(*args):
> ? ? f.args = args
> ? ? print args
>
> is there any other way?
> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a
> valid one at the moment, sorry.
>

You should care. :)

You can avoid referring to f twice by using an inner method with a
name that is less subject to change or influence from outside forces:

    def countdown_function_that_might_get_renamed(
            n,
            preamble,
            postamble):
        def recurse(n):
            print preamble, n, postamble
            if n:
                recurse(n-1)
        recurse(n)

    countdown_function_that_might_get_renamed(10, "before", "after")

Note that the example makes the recursive call more concise, by
avoiding the need to resend the parameters that don't change during
the recursion ("preamble" and "postamble").  Of course, you do trade
off some terseness with the inner method, but it's only two lines of
code and one level of indentation.

For a somewhat related discussion see this short thread:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/197221f82f7c247b

In particular see Gabriel's response to me.  The fact that you are
saving off f.args makes me think that you are solving a problem
similar to mine, but I could be wrong.



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Feb 13 05:03:20 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:03:20 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl5tch$h34$00$1@news.t-online.com>

hjebbers wrote:

> On Feb 12, 3:17 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>> hjebbers wrote:
>> > On Feb 11, 7:01 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>> >> hjebbers wrote:
>> >> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets
>> >> >> say DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more
>> >> >> info?
>>
>> >> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that
>> >> > now. I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup
>> >> > gives a CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
>> >> > (where is the bug?)
>>
>> >> In the platform-specific code ;)
>>
>> >> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and
>> >> then...
>>
>> > if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
>> > bugreport?
>>
>> A this stage a bug report would be useless. The details you have provided
>> so far don't give anyone without physical access to your machine a chance
>> to reproduce the error.
>>
>> > (because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
>> > doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)
>>
>> Indeed. The culprit may be an extension written in C that is overwriting
>> memory still in use by other parts of your program.
>>
>> Peter
> 
> No C extensions used. Definitely not.
> 
> As these crashes occur during stress tests, I go to the limits of the
> memory available.
> What strikes me is:
> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> much).

Random thoughts:

If there were not enough memory Python should give a MemoryError rather than 
segfault. 

Do both systems use the same memory layout (i. e. 32 or 64bit OS, 16 or 32 
bit unicode)?

Try an alpha of Python 2.7. If you're lucky "your" bug was found 'n' fixed 
independently.

Peter


From daniele.esposti at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 05:07:04 2010
From: daniele.esposti at gmail.com (Expo)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:07:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: bsddb version mysmatch between win32 and linux
Message-ID: <18361bde-a134-478f-b670-87c16fd57028@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Hi guys,

I found an incompatibility in the bsddb library shipped with Python
which is a different version between the win32 release and the linux
release.
This happend using Python 2.6.2 on win32 and OpenSuse 11.2.
To reproduce this problem, create a bsddb file under win32 with this
code:

import shelve

f = shelve.open( "test.bin" )
f["test"] = "test"
f.sync()
f.close()

copy test.bin in the OpenSuse system and try to open it:

import shelve

f = shelve.open( "test.bin" )
print f["test"]

and you get this traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/shelve.py", line 234, in open
return DbfilenameShelf(filename, flag, protocol, writeback)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/shelve.py", line 218, in __init__
Shelf.__init__(self, anydbm.open(filename, flag), protocol, writeback)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/anydbm.py", line 83, in open
return mod.open(file, flag, mode)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dbhash.py", line 19, in open
return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/bsddb/__init__.py", line 361, in hashopen
d.open(file, db.DB_HASH, flags, mode)
bsddb.db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument -- ./test.bin:
unsupported hash version: 9')

I don't know yet if the problem is related to OpenSuse or to the
Python linux distribution.

How I can resolve this ?


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 05:29:48 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:29:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D1DE7ED554F0rtwfreenetREMOVEcouk@216.196.109.145>
Message-ID: <b795dd86-d458-43b8-bff1-eb9d7069c36f@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 11:46?pm, Rob Williscroft <r... at rtw.me.uk> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote in news:2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-
> 3348b72b7... at u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com in comp.lang.python:
>
> > the information about the error is a windows dump.
>
> This may help:
>
> #http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms680621(VS.85).aspx
>
> SEM_FAILCRITICALERRORS = 1
> SEM_NOALIGNMENTFAULTEXCEPT = 4
> SEM_NOGPFAULTERRORBOX = 4
> SEM_NOOPENFILEERRORBOX = 8
>
> import ctypes
> from ctypes.wintypes import UINT
>
> SetErrorMode = ctypes.windll.kernel32.SetErrorMode
> SetErrorMode.restype = UINT
> SetErrorMode.argtypes = ( UINT,)
>
> Then putting:
>
> SetErrorMode( SEM_FAILCRITICALERRORS | SEM_NOGPFAULTERRORBOX )
>
> at the start of you programme, should stop the "Critical Error" dialog
> box you are seeing and you may get a chance to see a traceback.
>
> Rob.

Hi Rob,

thanks.
I tried this, but did not work for me.

henk-jan


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 05:49:01 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:49:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl5tch$h34$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <f9d6f570-e5a5-40d5-aa38-5253a4a53d0c@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 11:03?am, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 3:17 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> >> hjebbers wrote:
> >> > On Feb 11, 7:01 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> >> >> hjebbers wrote:
> >> >> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets
> >> >> >> say DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more
> >> >> >> info?
>
> >> >> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that
> >> >> > now. I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup
> >> >> > gives a CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> >> >> > (where is the bug?)
>
> >> >> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> >> >> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and
> >> >> then...
>
> >> > if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
> >> > bugreport?
>
> >> A this stage a bug report would be useless. The details you have provided
> >> so far don't give anyone without physical access to your machine a chance
> >> to reproduce the error.
>
> >> > (because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
> >> > doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)
>
> >> Indeed. The culprit may be an extension written in C that is overwriting
> >> memory still in use by other parts of your program.
>
> >> Peter
>
> > No C extensions used. Definitely not.
>
> > As these crashes occur during stress tests, I go to the limits of the
> > memory available.
> > What strikes me is:
> > 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> > 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> > much).
>
> Random thoughts:
>
> If there were not enough memory Python should give a MemoryError rather than
> segfault.
>
> Do both systems use the same memory layout (i. e. 32 or 64bit OS, 16 or 32
> bit unicode)?
bot use 32bits;
but the windows box uses 16 bits unicode, on linux 32bits unicode is
used.
the memory used by my program is for the larger part unicode strings.
....well, but that makes the better performance of linux even
stranger...
>
> Try an alpha of Python 2.7. If you're lucky "your" bug was found 'n' fixed
> independently.
well...that's what I thought for version 2.6 ;-)
(I run into this crash a longer time ago)
but seriously, I'll try this.

kind regards,
henk-jan
>
> Peter



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 05:50:49 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:50:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 10:25?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > What strikes me is:
> > 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> > 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> > much).
>
> ? ? ? ? Which on its own does not mean much.
>
> ? ? ? ? Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
> to page swapping as soon.
>
> ? ? ? ? There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
> user/1GB OS mode --

hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)


> it is mainly meant for server machines where there
> won't be many disjoint OS libraries loaded, but the server applications
> need lots of data space.
>
> ? ? ? ? What split does the Linux OS use? If it give 3GB to user space,
> while you'd start to page swap much soon, you'd also have 50% more
> virtual memory that can be allocated than under Windows.
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

I will check this.....any advice on how to check this?

henk-jan


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 06:02:24 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:02:24 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:29:12 -0300, Arnaud Delobelle 
> <arnodel at googlemail.com> escribi?:
> 
>> I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
>> couple of days ago:
>>
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html
> 
> Ouch! I didn't see your post, nor several other earlier posts in this 
> thread. In fact, I thought mine was the *first* reply when I wrote it!
> 

It's not just me then.  I'm using Thunderbird on Windows Vista to view 
the group via gmane, and notice the earlier parts of a thread can show 
up hours or even days after the later ones.  Would something who 
understands these things be kind enough to explain why this happens, or 
at least provide the keywords needed for google, as I haven't got a clue 
where to start.

> Yes, of course, your code does exactly that without any bytecode hacks.
> 



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:03:02 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:03:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<007f26f3-5310-4ed9-bb25-b467fb248825@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb838035-fc5c-416c-877e-782e012fd971@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

to all,

thanks for the pointers so far.
if you feel the need to reproduce the crash, it's not that hard,
(downloading and installing my edi translator, install configuration
(button-click), and run.
I have a modified version (replace some *.py files) that eliminate a
lot of stuff (simpler setup, no database used, no external C-modules).
contact me for recipe and files

about me being reluctant to 'show the code':
- the crash that happens during stress tests.
- the crash occurs not always, and at different points.
- the code does runs OK on linux (which does not mean there's no bugt
in it ;-)

kind regards,
henk-jan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 13 06:24:17 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:24:17 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 13.02.10 11:50, schrieb hjebbers:
> On Feb 13, 10:25 am, Dennis Lee Bieber<wlfr... at ix.netcom.com>  wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers<hjebb... at gmail.com>
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>> What strikes me is:
>>> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
>>> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
>>> much).
>>
>>          Which on its own does not mean much.
>>
>>          Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
>> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
>> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
>> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
>> to page swapping as soon.
>>
>>          There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
>> user/1GB OS mode --
>
> hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)

You don't get it - it's about the virtual memory address space 
available. This has nothing to do with physical memory. Obviously if the 
latter runs out, the swapping will make the machine painfully slow. But 
that's another issue.


Diez


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:35:45 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:35:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0a5e5e0a-7b2c-40a9-a1d7-77a478bf88a0@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 12:24?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 13.02.10 11:50, schrieb hjebbers:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 10:25 am, Dennis Lee Bieber<wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> ?wrote:
> >> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers<hjebb... at gmail.com>
> >> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >>> What strikes me is:
> >>> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> >>> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> >>> much).
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?Which on its own does not mean much.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
> >> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
> >> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
> >> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
> >> to page swapping as soon.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
> >> user/1GB OS mode --
>
> > hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)
>
> You don't get it - it's about the virtual memory address space
> available. This has nothing to do with physical memory. Obviously if the
> latter runs out, the swapping will make the machine painfully slow. But
> that's another issue.
>
> Diez

Diez,
you are right; I misunderstood.
henk-jan


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:54:47 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:54:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <32835daa-ced4-4c67-b335-25b44d734674@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

I enlarged the windows page file from 750Kb to 1.5Gb .
The crash still happens.
btw, the crash does not happen at a peak memory usage.
According to windows task manager, at the moment of crash mem usage of
my program is 669kb, peak memory usage is 1.136kb

henk-jan


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 07:14:58 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:14:58 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <32835daa-ced4-4c67-b335-25b44d734674@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<32835daa-ced4-4c67-b335-25b44d734674@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl650a$1je$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* hjebbers:
> I enlarged the windows page file from 750Kb to 1.5Gb .
> The crash still happens.
> btw, the crash does not happen at a peak memory usage.
> According to windows task manager, at the moment of crash mem usage of
> my program is 669kb, peak memory usage is 1.136kb
> 
> henk-jan

Probably you meant to write "M", not "k" or "K"?

I've never managed to make much sense of the displays in Windows' Task Manager, 
if that's what you're using, but I think the mem usage it's displaying by 
default is the process' working set, or something very similar to that measure.

You can display additional columns in Task Manager, and one useful one is how 
much virtual memory is allocated,.

And perhaps then (if that's not what you're looking it already) it'll be closer 
to 2 GiB?



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 07:34:46 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:34:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e0c07ca6-a4a8-4969-a6dd-2fc54f8cea49@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 10:25?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > What strikes me is:
> > 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> > 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> > much).
>
> ? ? ? ? Which on its own does not mean much.
>
> ? ? ? ? Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
> to page swapping as soon.
>
> ? ? ? ? There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
> user/1GB OS mode -- it is mainly meant for server machines where there
> won't be many disjoint OS libraries loaded, but the server applications
> need lots of data space.
>
> ? ? ? ? What split does the Linux OS use? If it give 3GB to user space,
> while you'd start to page swap much soon, you'd also have 50% more
> virtual memory that can be allocated than under Windows.
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Hi Wulfraed,
I tried this (the 3GB switch).
But python still crashes.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Feb 13 07:48:30 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:48:30 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B769F9E.6040402@ieee.org>

hjebbers wrote:
> On Feb 13, 10:25 am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com>
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>     
>>> What strikes me is:
>>> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
>>> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
>>> much).
>>>       
>>         Which on its own does not mean much.
>>
>>         Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
>> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
>> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
>> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
>> to page swapping as soon.
>>
>>         There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
>> user/1GB OS mode --
>>     
>
> hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)
>
>
>   
>> it is mainly meant for server machines where there
>> won't be many disjoint OS libraries loaded, but the server applications
>> need lots of data space.
>>
>>         What split does the Linux OS use? If it give 3GB to user space,
>> while you'd start to page swap much soon, you'd also have 50% more
>> virtual memory that can be allocated than under Windows.
>> --
>>         Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>>         wlfr... at ix.netcom.com     HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>>     
>
> I will check this.....any advice on how to check this?
>
> henk-jan
>
>   
As I posted in recent thread on Tutor,

But the one you might want is a boot.ini option that tells the OS to 
only reserve 1gb for itself, and leave 3gb for user space.  But there 
are tradeoffs, including the need to modify an application's executable 
to take advantage of it.  And the whole system may run substantially 
slower, even when your're extended app isn't running.  See links:
  http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx
  
http://blogs.technet.com/askperf/archive/2007/03/23/memory-management-demystifying-3gb.aspx

DaveA


From eadrogue at gmx.net  Sat Feb 13 07:51:09 2010
From: eadrogue at gmx.net (Ernest =?iso-8859-1?Q?Adrogu=E9?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:51:09 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
Message-ID: <20100213125109.GA15741@doriath.local>

Hello everybody,

I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.

class MyClass(object):
	def __init__(self, input_data):
		self._data = transform_input(input_data)
	def __getitem__(self, key):
		if isinstance(key, slice):
			# return a slice of self
			pass
		else:
			# return a scalar value
			return self._data[key]

The question is how to return a slice of self.
First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
expects a different kind of input data.

Another option is

out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
out._data = self._data[key]
return out

But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.

So what is there to do? Any suggestion?

Cheers.

Ernest



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 13 08:14:29 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:14:29 -0500
Subject: Function attributes [OT]
In-Reply-To: <hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>

Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:29:12 -0300, Arnaud Delobelle
>> <arnodel at googlemail.com> escribi?:
>>
>>> I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
>>> couple of days ago:
>>>
>>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html
>>
>> Ouch! I didn't see your post, nor several other earlier posts in this
>> thread. In fact, I thought mine was the *first* reply when I wrote it!
> 
> It's not just me then.  I'm using Thunderbird on Windows Vista to view
> the group via gmane, and notice the earlier parts of a thread can show
> up hours or even days after the later ones.  Would something who
> understands these things be kind enough to explain why this happens, or
> at least provide the keywords needed for google, as I haven't got a clue
> where to start.
> 
There are two main channels feeding the comp.lang.python newsgroup.
Gmane is primarily a news (NNTP-based) service, though for reasons best
know to the organizers they choose to rename the standard newsgroups to
fit their own idea of how the universe should be organized, so there the
group becomes gmane.comp.python.general.

The first feed is the general interchange of articles between NNTP
servers: while this is usually a reliable interchange mechanism, an
individual server can "glitch" occasionally (by losing network
connectivity, for example, or when some part of its news support
mechanism breaks temporarily).

The second is the python-list mailing list, maintained as a part of the
python.org infrastructure (by a hard-working team of volunteers, I
should add, who get little enough credit for the sterling work they do
day in day out to keep the real information flowing and the spam out).

More recently the waters have been muddied by Google Groups, which sadly
seems at time to be so badly managed (or simply not managed?) as to make
it a principal source of spam. This surprises me, as Gmail appears to
have very effective spam filtering. Many people appear to use Google
Groups as their primary interface to newsgroups and/or mailing lists to
the extent that they believe the Groups interface to be what everyone
uses to access the list.

The task of maintaining a two-way bridge between the comp.lang.python
NNTP community and the python-list email community while filtering out
the spam and ensuring that posts aren't duplicated too often is a
difficult one. For example, I hit "reply all" to your message, and had I
not trimmed the headers my NNTP client (Thunderbird) would have sent
copies to you, to the mailing list AND to the newsgroup. Sometimes such
messages do appear twice, particularly (in my experience) to recipients
who use the email channel.

In short, these things happen because life is complicated and the
technical solutions available to disambiguate the feeds aren't perfect.
So you might consider filing the glitches under "shit happens". Speaking
personally I wouldn't have a clue how to keep this stuff going on a
daily basis at the volume level we see on this group, and I am very
grateful to everyone who does.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 08:20:15 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:20:15 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl68qn$vkt$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ernest Adrogu?:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
> 
> class MyClass(object):
> 	def __init__(self, input_data):
> 		self._data = transform_input(input_data)
> 	def __getitem__(self, key):
> 		if isinstance(key, slice):
> 			# return a slice of self
> 			pass
> 		else:
> 			# return a scalar value
> 			return self._data[key]
> 
> The question is how to return a slice of self.
> First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> expects a different kind of input data.
 >
> Another option is
> 
> out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> out._data = self._data[key]
> return out
> 
> But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.

I'd go for it anyway, because the programmer who subclasses needs to understand 
the base class. And if, say, that class has a custom _init method, and it's 
documented that that what's a subclass should override, then, OK. No problem.


> So what is there to do? Any suggestion?

An alternative can be to simply check for argument value None in the 
constructor, and if so, don't do anything.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 13 08:23:15 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:23:15 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B76A7C3.2030000@nospam.web.de>

Am 13.02.10 13:51, schrieb Ernest Adrogu?:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
>
> class MyClass(object):
> 	def __init__(self, input_data):
> 		self._data = transform_input(input_data)
> 	def __getitem__(self, key):
> 		if isinstance(key, slice):
> 			# return a slice of self
> 			pass
> 		else:
> 			# return a scalar value
> 			return self._data[key]
>
> The question is how to return a slice of self.
> First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> expects a different kind of input data.
>
> Another option is
>
> out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> out._data = self._data[key]
> return out
>
> But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.

I'd say you can't have your cake and eat it. Either let the constructors 
work with data to produce whatever state the instance really contains. 
If that's the case, go with your second solution. Potentially, you need 
to make self._data[key] some method-call that might be overridden, 
something along the lines of __getstate__, to make sure subclasses 
return all data that is relevant to them.

But if you really have child-class code that needs to be run on *every* 
object construction, then you should make input_data optional, and pass 
the transformed input in for the slice-creation, bypassing the 
transform_input.

The only other solution I can think of is to return a 
MyClassSlice-instance, which is just a view to MyClass instances, and 
restricts e.g. key-spaces.


class MyClassSlice(object):

     def __init__(self, state, slice):
         self.state = state
         self.slice = slice


     def __getitem__(self, key):
         if isinstance(key, slice):
            # create subslice & return that
            return MyClassSlice(self.state, merged_slice(key, self.slice))
         elif self.key_in_slice(key):
            return self._state[key]
         raise IndexError

     def key_in_slice(self, key):
         # this of course depends on your key-domain.


Diez


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 08:23:33 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:23:33 +0000
Subject: Function attributes [OT]
In-Reply-To: <hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl694e$pm3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>>> En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:29:12 -0300, Arnaud Delobelle
>>> <arnodel at googlemail.com> escribi?:
>>>
>>>> I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
>>>> couple of days ago:
>>>>
>>>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html
>>> Ouch! I didn't see your post, nor several other earlier posts in this
>>> thread. In fact, I thought mine was the *first* reply when I wrote it!
>> It's not just me then.  I'm using Thunderbird on Windows Vista to view
>> the group via gmane, and notice the earlier parts of a thread can show
>> up hours or even days after the later ones.  Would something who
>> understands these things be kind enough to explain why this happens, or
>> at least provide the keywords needed for google, as I haven't got a clue
>> where to start.
>>
> There are two main channels feeding the comp.lang.python newsgroup.
> Gmane is primarily a news (NNTP-based) service, though for reasons best
> know to the organizers they choose to rename the standard newsgroups to
> fit their own idea of how the universe should be organized, so there the
> group becomes gmane.comp.python.general.
> 
> The first feed is the general interchange of articles between NNTP
> servers: while this is usually a reliable interchange mechanism, an
> individual server can "glitch" occasionally (by losing network
> connectivity, for example, or when some part of its news support
> mechanism breaks temporarily).
> 
> The second is the python-list mailing list, maintained as a part of the
> python.org infrastructure (by a hard-working team of volunteers, I
> should add, who get little enough credit for the sterling work they do
> day in day out to keep the real information flowing and the spam out).
> 
> More recently the waters have been muddied by Google Groups, which sadly
> seems at time to be so badly managed (or simply not managed?) as to make
> it a principal source of spam. This surprises me, as Gmail appears to
> have very effective spam filtering. Many people appear to use Google
> Groups as their primary interface to newsgroups and/or mailing lists to
> the extent that they believe the Groups interface to be what everyone
> uses to access the list.
> 
> The task of maintaining a two-way bridge between the comp.lang.python
> NNTP community and the python-list email community while filtering out
> the spam and ensuring that posts aren't duplicated too often is a
> difficult one. For example, I hit "reply all" to your message, and had I
> not trimmed the headers my NNTP client (Thunderbird) would have sent
> copies to you, to the mailing list AND to the newsgroup. Sometimes such
> messages do appear twice, particularly (in my experience) to recipients
> who use the email channel.
> 
> In short, these things happen because life is complicated and the
> technical solutions available to disambiguate the feeds aren't perfect.
> So you might consider filing the glitches under "shit happens". Speaking
> personally I wouldn't have a clue how to keep this stuff going on a
> daily basis at the volume level we see on this group, and I am very
> grateful to everyone who does.
> 
> regards
>  Steve

Many thanks for the explanation.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Feb 13 09:16:31 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:16:31 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
References: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl6c79$56c$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Ernest Adrogu? wrote:

> I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
> 
> class MyClass(object):
>         def __init__(self, input_data):
>                 self._data = transform_input(input_data)
>         def __getitem__(self, key):
>                 if isinstance(key, slice):
>                         # return a slice of self
>                         pass
>                 else:
>                         # return a scalar value
>                         return self._data[key]
> 
> The question is how to return a slice of self.
> First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> expects a different kind of input data.
> 
> Another option is
> 
> out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> out._data = self._data[key]
> return out
> 
> But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.
> 
> So what is there to do? Any suggestion?

Either 

(1) make transform_input() idempotent, i. e. ensure that

transform_input(transform_input(data)) == transform_input(data)

and construct the slice with MyClass(self._data[key])

or 

(2) require it to be invertible with

inverse_transform_input(transform_input(data)) == data

and make the slice with MyClass(inverse_transform_input(self._data[key]))

Just stating the obvious...

Peter


From eadrogue at gmx.net  Sat Feb 13 09:53:20 2010
From: eadrogue at gmx.net (Ernest =?iso-8859-1?Q?Adrogu=E9?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:53:20 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
In-Reply-To: <hl6c79$56c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6c79$56c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20100213145320.GA16233@doriath.local>

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your comments. I think I've got enough
information to make a decision now.

13/02/10 @ 15:16 (+0100), thus spake Peter Otten:
> Ernest Adrogu? wrote:
> 
> > I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> > The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
> > 
> > class MyClass(object):
> >         def __init__(self, input_data):
> >                 self._data = transform_input(input_data)
> >         def __getitem__(self, key):
> >                 if isinstance(key, slice):
> >                         # return a slice of self
> >                         pass
> >                 else:
> >                         # return a scalar value
> >                         return self._data[key]
> > 
> > The question is how to return a slice of self.
> > First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> > use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> > expects a different kind of input data.
> > 
> > Another option is
> > 
> > out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> > out._data = self._data[key]
> > return out
> > 
> > But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> > undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> > to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.
> > 
> > So what is there to do? Any suggestion?
> 
> Either 
> 
> (1) make transform_input() idempotent, i. e. ensure that
> 
> transform_input(transform_input(data)) == transform_input(data)
> 
> and construct the slice with MyClass(self._data[key])
> 
> or 
> 
> (2) require it to be invertible with
> 
> inverse_transform_input(transform_input(data)) == data
> 
> and make the slice with MyClass(inverse_transform_input(self._data[key]))
> 
> Just stating the obvious...
> 
> Peter
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Feb 13 10:14:58 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:14:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: concatenate fasta file
References: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl6fli$d8a$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-12, PeroMHC <macmanes at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All, I have  a simple problem that I hope somebody can help with. I
> have an input file (a fasta file) that I need to edit..
>
> Input file format
>
>>name 1
> tactcatacatac
>>name 2
> acggtggcat
>>name 3
> gggtaccacgtt
>
> I need to concatenate the sequences.. make them look like
>
>>concatenated
> tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt

(echo "concantenated>"; grep '^ [actg]*$' inputfile | tr -d '\n'; echo) > outputfile

-- 
Grant



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 10:26:52 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 07:26:52 -0800
Subject: Create a backslash-escaped version of a string?
References: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl6gbs$7nd$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3 at 36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>,
boblatest  <boblatest at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>I'd like to have control characters in a string to be converted to
>their backslash-escaped counterparts. I looked in the encoders section
>of the string module but couldn't find anything appropriate. I could
>write it myself but I'm sure something of the sort exists. The
>hypothetical method "c_escaped()" would work like this:
>
>>>> a="abc\rdef"
>>>> print a.c_escaped()
>abc\rdef
>>>>

This is a little different from what you want, but just for the sake of
completeness:

>>> print repr(a)[1:-1]
abc\rdef
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 10:31:03 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 07:31:03 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
>id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
>expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
>access to the referenced value.
>
>If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
>not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
>Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
>the value for which the id() value was provided.

IIRC, I've seen ctypes code that uses id() to get access to the object,
but (obviously) I don't think that invalidates your point[er].
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 10:40:29 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 07:40:29 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl4v6f$bh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<5e12bb21-f1bc-4b43-a6ed-650d1c018e5d@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2489.1266053149.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl6h5d$4r5$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2489.1266053149.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:23:46 -0800 (PST), rantingrick
><rantingrick at gmail.com> declaimed the following in
>gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>> This entire thread has imploded like a neutron star into an infantile
>> debate that only Caddie Couric, Bill O Reilly, and everyone on PMS-NBC
>> can hold a candle to! The only post i enjoyed was Steve Howes!
>
>{Hmm, I don't recall ever seeing a "rantingrick" on the group before...
>could it be... a... "sockpuppet"?}

Zie's been around a while.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From sparks.m at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 10:59:42 2010
From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:59:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi Alf,


On Feb 12, 8:22 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> Thanks for the effort at non-flaming discussion, it *is*
> appreciated.

I would appreciate it if you tried to be non-flaming yourself,
since you can see I am not flaming you.

I was seeking to educate you on a simple matter which you seem
to be misunderstanding in python. This will be my second and
last attempt to do so since you chose to be inflammatory in your
response. (In case you do not understand what I find inflammatory,
I will discuss that at the end)

Please note below I may use CAPS occasionally. Whilst usually
taken as shouting, I mean them as BOLD. Please be aware of this :-)

My reason for choosing to do reply is for the simple reason
that recently I had similar discussions with a colleague who was
likewise stuck talking about implementation aspects (call by
reference/value rather than call with object/sharing).

> > Before I start, note we're talking about semantics, not
> > implementation. That distinction is very important.
>
> Yes.
[ inflammatory comment snipped]

Good - common ground - a good starting point.

Now, if I define a language, this has 3 main parts:
   * Syntax
   * Semantics
   * Implementation

The syntax of python is simply and shortly defined in a machine
readable format, and is therefore not interesting to discuss
here.

The implementation of python is similarly well defined. There are
multiple such implementations, one of which is CPython.

> However, all those references to implementation aspects,
> persisting
[ inflammatory comment snipped]

In theory when talking about a language, we do not need to talk
about implementation details. However when using a language,
implementation details do matter as well.

That's why people talk about implementation aspects. When talking
about how the language is defined, you need to talk about how the
language is defined. It's not defined in terms of Java pointers or
references. It's defined in terms of objects and names. (Or objects
and labels)

The exception to this is with pure functional language. In a pure
functional language I do not care about implementation details,
since they are outside the scope of the language.

It is worth noting that python and functional languages share a
common ethos - though with different conclusions - that optimising
for the programmers expression of the problem rather than for the
machine *matters*.

If you miss this, you will be stuck misunderstanding python,
pretty much forever. If you (the reader, not necessarily Alf)
understand this, good. If you don't, you need to re-read this
and really understand it.

(please bear in mind when I say "YOU" in that paragraph, I
mean "whomever is reading this", not anyone specific)

Let's get down to brass tacks.

In python, the LANGUAGE, there are no pointers or references,
much like in SML, haskell and friends there are no pointers or
references.  I'm using SML here as an example, because it is
conceptually close to python in terms to some aspects of
evaluation and how it deals with names and values. (There
are many differences as well, but we're dealing with calling,
names & values, in which they are close enough)

Taking an example from SML:

structure Stk =
struct
  exception EmptyStack;
  datatype 'x stack = EmptyStack | push of ('x * 'x stack);
  fun pop(push(x,y)) = y | pop EmptyStack = raise EmptyStack;
  fun top(push(x,y)) = x | top EmptyStack = raise EmptyStack;
end;

This may be used, say from the interactive prompt, as follows:

   val x = EmptyStack;  (* 1 *)
   val 'x = x;          (* 2 *)
   val y = push(5,'x);  (* 3 *)
   val z = push(4,y);   (* 4 *)
   top z;               (* 5 *)

Now, in this example, in SML, there are only names and values.
Unlike python, all values are immutable, and theoretically, no
sequencing of statements.

Now line 1 takes the EmptyStack value, and the name x is bound
to it. Line 2 takes that same EmptyStack value, and the name 'x
is also bound to it.

There are no pointers in SML, just names and values.

Like python, SML has aliases. 'x for example is an alias for x.
However that is just a symbolic name for the object itself.

When line 3 is evaluated, the value push(5, 'x) is bound to the
name y. Note - push(5, 'x) is in itself a value in SML, because
it has been defined as such in the Datatype definition in the
structure definition Stk.

When we reach line 5, the function top is called with the value
that z is bound to. Not a reference. Not a pointer. The actual
value. In this case z's value is push(4,push(5,EmptyStack)).

Thus the SML runtime evaluates the expression
   top push(4,push(5,EmptyStack))
And returns the value 4.

In python, I don't have such richness of ability to define values,
but I have these types play with:

   * numbers - 1.0 , 1, 1+2i, 0x11 0777
   * strings - "hello" "world"
   * lists - ["hello", "world" ]
   * tuples - ("hello", "world")
   * dicts - {"hello" : "world" }

All of these types are defined in python as python objects. How
they are implemented is irrelevant. What is relevant is that
lists and dicts are mutable. The rest are not. (This mutability,
along with sequencing and iteration make python different from
the pure subset of SML.)

However, nonetheless when I type this:

def hello(world):
   print world

hello("world")

When I call "hello", with the argument "world", the language
is DEFINED, that *just like SML* I am passing in that specific
object. Not a copy of a value (call by value). Not a reference
to the value. Not a pointer to a value. But that specific actual
object.

This isn't willy nilly or on a whim, that's a concious choice.

[ If this makes no sense, consider that python's history comes from
  a CS department like SML's does, rather than from an engineering
  department (ala C/C++/Java).


Now you might turn around and say (since you have in the thread)
"but in reality you're not _really_ passing in that object,
you're passing in a reference", you're wrong. If the language
defines it as passing in THAT object, then it defines it as
passing in THAT object.

But you can come back, as you have done, over and over and claim
that it's a pointer or a reference, and may even say things like
"well, according to this OTHER language's definition of this word,
I mean this".

That's nice, but ultimately broken.

Using another languages way of defining something is wrong.

In python it is *defined* as passing in the object. Not a reference.
Not a pointer. The object itself.

If it is a pointer or reference it has a value, and refers to a
value. Essentially 2 values in 1. This is part of the accepted
definition of pointer or reference. "A value that allows you to
find another value".

By claiming that in the below:

    >>> stack = ()
    >>> stack_ = stack

That stack is a reference to () and that stack_ is also a
reference to () _in python the language_, then I must be able
to get at the value of stack itself, and the value of stack_
itself.

You claim to be able to do this thus:
    >>> id(stack)
    3078742060L
    >>> id(stack_)
    3078742060L

On the surface of things, this sounds like a good claim, but it
isn't. If it was a reference, its type would be a reference.
It isn't:

    >>> type(id(stack))
    <type 'long'>
    >>> type(id(stack_))
    <type 'long'>

That value is an integer. Additionally, if these "id" values were
references, then I would be able to take those values and _inside
the language_ retrieve the value they refer to.

ie I would be able to type something like this to get this sort of
behaviour:
    >>> refstack = id(stack)
    >>> refstack_ = id(stack_)
    >>> STACK = !refstack
    >>> STACK_ = !refstack_
    >>> STACK
    ()
    >>> STACK_
    ()

This means one of two things:
   * Either "stack" by itself is a reference to (), but we
     cannot get at the reference itself, just the value it
     refers to.
   * OR "stack" is the preferred way of dereferencing the
     reference associated with stack, and to get at the actual
     reference we do id(stack).

The problem is i) is incomplete in terms of being a reference,
since we can only get at the r-value. The other one is that
ii) is incomplete because we have no way of going from an l-value
to an r-value.

This means that *AS FAR AS THE LANGUAGE* is concerned whether
the implementation looks or acts like it's implemented as call
by reference or whatever, it is simpler and more correct to say
that as far as the *LANGUAGE* is concerned, you pass in the
object, which will be bound with a local name inside the function
or method.

Thus is is more correct to say that python the language only has
aliases.

By comparison, it's possible to demonstrate that Java does have
references, because it is possible to box and unbox values to/from
reference values:

    http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/conversions.html#190697

Thus whilst Java's semantics may be similar, python's differ in
that Java, the language, has references and python, the language,
has aliases.

Now let's move to the implementation aspects.

Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
(Jython) and .net (Ironpython).

There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
which can be found here:

http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/

This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.

Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
and pointers. Therefore to say "in reality the implementation
will be passing a reference or pointer" is invalid. There is
after all at least one implementation that does not rely on
such machine oriented language details.

What you find in terms of modelling the semantics, is that
implementation is seeking to model those of the python virtual
machine, and there that talks about values, objects, references
and the heap. However in terms of modelling how the language is
used this is not exposed at the language level.

Indeed the only test it uses with regard to references involves
the creation of a reference type _using_ python:

   class Reference(object) :
       pass

Creating a reference:
   a = Ref()

Setting the value the reference refers to:
   a.value = False

Passing the reference to a function, and changing the value the
reference:
   def bar(ref):
       ref.value = True

   bar(a)

Whilst you might say "But that's wrong", note that .value on
the right hand side is used for unboxing the value - it's
syntactic sugar for a method call on the ref object.
Specifically, it's the result of doing ref.__getattr__("value").

Likewise, ref.value on the left hand side of an equals is
also syntactic sugar for boxing the value - specifically it's
syntactic sugar for ref.__setattr__("value", <whatever>)

That's the closest you can come to Java references in python -
since otherwise you have no way to box or unbox any values.
If you want to claim Python has java references with no ability
to box or unbox any values, then maybe that's vaguely OK, but
it's still _wrong_. You can claim it's LIKE java references, but
since python doesn't have references, only aliases, you'd be
wrong to claim they're the same as java references.

And from a language spec - semantics, not implementation
viewpoint - you'd also still be wrong because you can implement
python without calling the values references.

Specifically, the object model defined in src/Objects.lhs and
src/ObjectTheory.lhs in the above reference operational semantics
specification of python uses a functional heap to contain the
objects. New objects are created there thus:

rewrite   (State
( heap                                                          )
envs  stack  ( FwApp (Prim "object" "__new__") (a_c:as) )) =
          (state  ( heap <+> [a |-> ObjValue (new [__class__ |-> a_c])
NoneValue] )  envs  stack  ( BwResult
a                               ))
  where a = freeAddr heap

In this definition, which is compilable and executable (since it's
haskell), there are no references, pointers or memory allocation.

Thus to say that for this:

    def hello(world)
        print world

    hello("world")

Saying that I *must* be passing in "world" by reference since
implementation requires this, is false. In *an* implementation
may do that, and indeed, it's the most obvious way of
*implementing* it in many languages, but to say the language
specifies it that way is incorrect.

After all, in the Haskell implementation for example, the
object itself is just passed in.

 ~~ interlude ~~

Now, if python DID add references, this would be pretty awesome
because it's the most obvious way of adding in software transactional
memory, since this usage of X.value is remarkably close to the way
I deal with values in my implementation of software transactional
memory for python which you'll find here:

   * http://www.kamaelia.org/STM

And since python doesn't already have references, you wouldn't be
changing existing semantics.

This won't happen for a fair while at least for many reasons, not
least the fact that there's a moratorium on language changes at
present.

 ~~ end interlude ~~

Now if we return to CPython, we find that CPython is the most
commonly used implementation of python. As a result much python
code is written to work well with that implementation, rather
than with any other.

The CPython implementation has some limitations:
   * It is written in C
   * It cannot pass in actual objects (like haskell), only
     primitive values.
   * Therefore it has to pass in pointers to values to the parts
     of the subsystem that do the evaluation.
   * It has to track memory, and performs garbage collection.
   * Since it tracks garbage, it uses the parlance of garbage
     collection - specifically including references and reference
     counts. A reference count is however just a count of "who
     knows about this object and is keeping this alive")
   * All memory allocation lives in the heap, and as a result
     python objects sit there, and the implementation slings
     around pointers to these things.
   * Logically speaking (and at the language level), python
     objects may contain other objects. Specifically, a list
     may contain another object (or even itself). Both of
     these types of relationship cause the reference counts
     to increase.
   * The program running tracks the objects using names, and
     when an object stops being findable by another object
     (eg no longer in a list, and no longer labelled by someone),
     this is a trigger which the garbage collector can use to
     decide to delete the object.

Given CPython is written in C, it becomes natural for CPython -
the implementation - to therefore start talking about objects,
pointers, references, reference counts and so on. Not only that
since no programmer really likes memory leaks etc, actually
knowing what the implementation is doing is *at times* useful
to know.

Since the language spec is tied up with a specific implementation,
some of these details leak into the language of the document.

So yes, as a pragmatic python programmer, I do care about reference
counts. I do care about weakrefs which don't increase reference
counts. I do care about when values are created and deleted.

However, I only do so because of the *implementation* not because
of the specification.

When it comes to talking about the language, saying "it's pointers"
over and over or saying "it's references" over and over or even
saying "it's references/pointers as defined by java" over and over
does NOT make it correct.

If you move forward and accept that python THE LANGUAGE uses names
and objects, and names are more like labels stuck onto objects
than names of boxes that objects can sit inside, you'll move
forward somewhat.

If you don't, that's fine, but stating your version of "truth" as
correct, when told many times you are incorrect is either ignorance,
arrogance, pigheadedness or stupidity.

I have chosen to believe it's ignorance, and assuming good faith.

Now, I did say I'd pick out the inflammatory parts of how you've
spoken to me, and I will just leave them as that. You will
hopefully see how they're inflammatory and modify your behaviour
in future.

Please note though, I will pick out one point. I was not using
Wikipedia as a means of argument by authority. I was using it as
a starting point for a discussion which I thought many could use
as a valid starting point - since whilst not perfect, and can be
highly inaccurate in places, it does form one of the few places
where people generally eventually reach some form of consensus.

The fact that you've previously editted, fine. Good. That's very
civic minded of you and I thank you for it.

The idea that somehow bringing in an acceptable definition from
some source that you've effectively stated you agree with as
valid (because you've editted it), somehow invalidates the meat
of my points I find a little bizarre. I'll put that down to
cultural differences.

Anyway, here's the points I find inflammatory, and rather than
respond, I'll leave them as is.

I'll also not be responding to any further mails containing
inflammatory comments. You can think this stupid or annoying,
but quite frankly, I don't see the point.

Hopefully nothing I have said above you personally find
inflammatory, if you do, I apologise in advance. I do hope
that my mail has moved your understanding of python calling
conventions on. I primarily do this because I hope that you
do not pass on your misunderstandings as fact, when in fact
they are not - because doing so would do others a disservice.

Regards,


Michael.

Inflammatory comments  (from my personal viewpoint)
On Feb 12, 8:22 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> It would seem to readers that posters here do not grasp and are
> unable to grasp that distinction.

The posters here do understand that distinction.

> However, all those references to implementation aspects,
> persisting in the face of corrections,

Stating something is a correction does not make that correction
true. If I state it's call by sharing, and that happens to be
the definition, then correcting me and calling it call by value
or call by reference does not make that correction true.

If you are told something repeatedly by many sources, perhaps
consider you may be wrong.

>  have just, IMHO, been consistent attempts at misrepresentation.

This can be taken as posters choosing to misrepresent your words,
and is equivalent to the question "When did you stop beating your
wife?", and equally offensive.

> I'm sorry to disappoint, but no. It was a random Google hit to find
> a first-year text that perhaps posters here could understand.

You have been talking to many people who have been around python
for sometime, including those who've worked on python's internals.
Assuming that they need "educating" as CS101 students is offensive.

> Not insinuiting anything about heir mental prowess or lack
> thereof,

No. It does - whether you like it or not. Communication is about
2 (or more) parties communicating. The sender of a message should
care more about how their message is recieved than how it is sent.
In my case, my goal of sending you a message was to educate.

Your goal APPEARS to have the purpose of defending a position you
hold strongly, to the extent of ignoring the effect on others. If
you think "That's their problem", then I can just correct you,
and then ignore you. If that's a misrepresentation of your goals,
then maybe telling you is helpful. I don't know.

I do know thoughI've made that sort of mistake in the past (not to
anyone here, but I have done), and realised my mistake and been
grown up enough to recognise my mistake and apologise.

I feel you have made that mistake here. Whether you apologise
is your call. I would.

> but just something they might understand given a repeatedly
> demonstrated inability to understand such basics, or even to
> understand the concept of reference to a definition of a term.

No, they do not agree with you. This is not the same as not
understanding, or lacking the mental ability to understand
"basic terms".

If I said you lacked the ability to understand such basics
of human interaction, you'd probably be rather offended.
If, at the same time, I demonstrated a complete inability to
understand such basics myself, you would find such remarks
inflammatory.

> Please do consider that my usage of the term "pointer" has
> always, in this thread, including the first article I posted
> in this thread, been with explicit reference to the Java
> language spec's meaning.

I understand this. What you seem to misunderstand is that others
also understand this. They also understand that Pointer as viewed
from the Java Language Spec *IS* a different concept.

There may be similarities, but the fact that you can unbox and
rebox a Java Reference (as per reference above), where you *cannot*
in python because, well, you can't, IS a fundamentally different
concept.

Conceptually you pass in the object in python. Not the object.
Java has to say you pass in a reference because Java has the
concept of references which may be box and unbox values.

> You may argue that those who wrote that language spec are
> confused about things or whatever, but that's rather stretching
> it, wouldn't you say?

No it isn't, there's others who claim exactly the same thing
about the Java Language Spec. In python, the language spec was
written by those who wrote CPython, therefore their terms are
clouded by concrete details. If they weren't, they'd use the
term aliases more often.


> So, this must be the most silly "argument by authority"
> ever offered.

This is inflammatory because you are deriding my premise as "silly"
because you have chosen to not ask yourself *why* I chose to use
that as a starting point, and then chose to ignore all my points
and arguments, deriding it as "silly".

That's rather inflammatory when someone is seeking to educate you
in the hope of making it such that you understand better and those
you come in contact with learn the correct semantics, rather than
what you think the semantics are, despite being told otherwise.

> I find that amusing and would have included a smiley except that
> I think that that would incur further flames.

Please not I have not flamed you. I have ignored your inflammatory
remarks except to note how I find them inflammatory towards myself
and others.

The assumption that I would flame you I do actually find relatively
offensive. I've stayed out of many flame wars for many years, and
generally find that seeking to understand why the opposing side in
an argument is saying what they do can actually often either resolve
differences or lead to an agreement to disagree.

Likewise I have tried to stay away from making suggestions as to
how you should change your behaviour since that could be considered
inflammatory by some.

> It's no criticism of you; I do appreciate your effort, thanks.

This comes across as dismissive, given you ignored the entire body
of my mail, and decided to deride it as "silly".

> And I reiterate that the meaning of "pointer" I have used is
> the meaning in the Java language spec.

This assumes I have not read the thread. I have. I read the
statement above numerous times. I also however have read the
Java Language Spec (you are not the only person to have done
this of course), and do NOT agree with you.

Indeed I can see usecases where *adding* references to python,
the language, could be useful. However, since they're not there,
I can't.

> And that that's about semantics, not about implementation,
> and not about C pointers or Pascal pointers or whatever else
> that some would rather wish it was.

Unfortunately, you have picked a language whose semantics for
references include the concept of being able to box and unbox
object references. You cannot do that in python. Boxing and
unboxing references is just another term for referencing and
dereferencing values. Again, something you can't do in python.

Again, by ignoring the meat of my argument and reiterating your
point, you come across as willfulling ignoring logical rational
arguments put your way in as non-inflammatory was as possible,
decrying all those who disagree with you as somehow stupid,
misrepresentational or ignorant.

By doing so, your mail as a whole is rather inflammatory, but
I've decided to only send one mail in reply to you and then
leave it at that.

> In the following that I snipped you had good discussion except
> for (as I could see) a fallacy-based denial of references
> existing in Python.

No, it's not denial, it's an understanding of programming
languages borne from having used a wide variety of languages
from Assembler (Z80, 6502, 6800), BASIC, pascal, C, C++, Java,
COBOL, Occam, Fortran, Perl, Python, Ruby, E, SML, Haskell,
Prolog, Lisp, and several others I've probably forgotten I've
used now over well over a quarter of century of usage. I've
used languages which are reference only, object only, value
only, etc.

My conclusion that python is call by object sharing is based
on 8 years experience of using python, and changing my views
from early on viewing it as pointers/references to understand
that the semantics are much closer to that of an impure
functional language where you pass complex objects *themselves*
(from a _semantic_ perspective).

To claim that I am in "denial", somehow implies that I am either
inexperienced, stupid, or unwilling to call a hammer a hammer or
a screwdriver a screwdriver.

I'm not. I'm simply unwilling to call a hammer a screwdriver or
call a screw a nail.

> I don't think there's any point in discussing that further,
> because it's evidently a religious matter where rational
> arguments

This is inflammatory, since you dismiss my arguments now as
religious rather than rational. I find that moderately disgusting
and offensive.

> --  and I've tried a few

You have not appeared to try to understand where my argument
is coming from sadly, despite me doing the same for yours. You
have dismissed my disagreement as religious, rather than seeking
to understanding the rational argument you have been presented,
and have not argued against it.

I however am seeking to be precise, by choosing NOT to use terms
like reference, because they are incorrect.

> --  don't reach, in spite of the extreme triviality of the
> subject matter.

Far from being trivial, understanding that you cannot unbox
"the value" of a python object is rather fundamental to the
understanding of python. Understanding that you are passing
around (logically speaking) the actual object explains for
example why this style of coding confuses people when they
start with python:

    >>> class MyObject(object):
    ...    def __init__(self, store=[]):
    ...        self.store = store
    ...    def append(self, X):
    ...        self.store.append(X)
    ...    def pop(self):
    ...        return self.store.pop()
    ...
    >>> X = MyObject()
    >>> Y = MyObject()
    >>> X.append(10)
    >>> Y.pop()
    10

The misunderstanding that people have is that they
assume that this:
    ...    def __init__(self, store=[]):

Results in a new empty object being created every time, whereas
actually it's created at the point the def statement is run,
specifically here:
    >>> MyObject.__init__.im_func.func_defaults
    ([],)

The fact I can get *an* object id thus:
    >>> id(MyObject.__init__.im_func.func_defaults[0])
    3078510124L
    >>> id(X.store)
    3078510124L
    >>> id(Y.store)
    3078510124L

Is pretty irrelevant. It's not a reference - it's an opaque
value that happens to be useful when debugging for telling
whether I've got the same object or not. Otherwise the objects
themselves would have no default name, and no way of telling
if THIS list is different fron THAT list.

However, by understanding that the [] object is created when
the def statement is evaluated and the object reused by all
subsequent calls, rather than being created when the object
is called explains much more clearly WHY the code works the
way it does.

Yes, you can make a similar argument in terms of references,
and under the hood that's what happens with pointers to an
empty list object stored on the heap. However, in terms of
semantics, it's an actual python object, not a reference.

After all python is a HUMAN oriented language, not a machine
oriented language. A reference says "this thing over here".
An object is a thing. The latter is more HUMAN, the former
is machine oriented.

> Thanks for the effort at non-flaming discussion,
> it *is* appreciated.

It does not appear that way, since you have chosen to assume
that I don't understand the thrust of your arguments, rather
than disagree with them. You have chosen to assume that my
arguments are wrong and used or made for religious reasons
rather than rational ones - such as the desire to be precise.

I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you,
since that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and
puts into context the responses you have gained from others.

After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE
ALL WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one
does not to understand what one is talking about does not
tend to engender warm fluffy feelings or sentiments of
authority towards such an individual. Be it me, you, or
anyone else.

At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a
behaviour. Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't
care about  my viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it
if you would try not to be inflammatory in your response
to this. (Since you do appear to also have a need to have
the last word)

Hoping this was useful on some level,


Michael.


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 11:08:11 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:08:11 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Aahz:
> In article <mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
>> id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
>> expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
>> access to the referenced value.
>>
>> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
>> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
>> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
>> the value for which the id() value was provided.
> 
> IIRC, I've seen ctypes code that uses id() to get access to the object,

Dino Viehland gave this code:

<quote author="Dino Viehland">
Just for fun this works in IronPython 2.6:

 >>> >>> import clr
 >>> >>> clr.AddReference('Microsoft.Dynamic')
 >>> >>> from Microsoft.Scripting.Runtime import IdDispenser
 >>> >>> x = object()
 >>> >>> id(x)
43
 >>> >>> IdDispenser.GetObject(43)
<object object at 0x000000000000002B>
 >>> >>> IdDispenser.GetObject(43) is x
True
</quote>



> but (obviously) I don't think that invalidates your point[er].

For my part I didn't think the above would be possible without enumerating all 
objects. I'm guessing that Steve didn't think so either. However, I seriously 
doubt that an agreement with my earlier statements of that was his point, 
considering the "if" above, which seems to imply to the reader that instead I'd 
argued what he's challenging.

Perhaps Steve was just confused.

My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec, didn't say much 
more about the language than that it has assignable references.

It took a long time to get the wild horses reined in in that direction.

But then two others ended up arguing that Python does not have references, with 
one of them maintaining that "refers to" in the language spec does not mean 
"refers to", but instead means "refers to", so I'm guessing it's religious, yes?


Cheers,

- Alf


From as at sci.fi  Sat Feb 13 11:18:15 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:18:15 +0200
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com> writes:

> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 64-bit CPU
> and OS.

That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 11:33:53 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:33:53 -0600
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
In-Reply-To: <20100213125109.GA15741@doriath.local>
References: <20100213125109.GA15741@doriath.local>
Message-ID: <hl6k9q$oc7$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-13 06:51 , Ernest Adrogu? wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
>
> class MyClass(object):
> 	def __init__(self, input_data):
> 		self._data = transform_input(input_data)
> 	def __getitem__(self, key):
> 		if isinstance(key, slice):
> 			# return a slice of self
> 			pass
> 		else:
> 			# return a scalar value
> 			return self._data[key]
>
> The question is how to return a slice of self.
> First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> expects a different kind of input data.
>
> Another option is
>
> out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> out._data = self._data[key]
> return out
>
> But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.
>
> So what is there to do? Any suggestion?

I highly recommend making __init__() constructors do as little computation as 
possible. You can add other constructors using @classmethod that do convenient 
transformations.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 13 11:40:21 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:40:21 +0100
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>
	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 13.02.10 17:18, schrieb Anssi Saari:
> Nobody<nobody at nowhere.com>  writes:
>
>> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 64-bit CPU
>> and OS.
>
> That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
> allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
> Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.

No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit through 
paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.

Diez



From maligree at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 11:43:04 2010
From: maligree at gmail.com (Maligree)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:43:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: threading and signals - main thread solely responsible for signal 
	handling?
Message-ID: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

The main part of my script is a function that does many long reads
(urlopen, it's looped). Since I'm hell-bent on employing SIGINFO to
display some stats, I needed to run foo() as a seperate thread to
avoid getting errno 4 (interrupted system call) errors (which occur if
SIGINFO is received while urlopen is setting itself up/waiting for a
response). This does the job, SIGINFO is handled without ever brutally
interrupting urlopen.

The problem is that after starting foo as a thread, my main thread has
nothing left to do - unless it receives a signal, and I am forced to
keep it in some sort of loop so that ANY signal handling can still
occur. I thought I'd just occupy it with a simple while 1: pass loop
but that, unfortunately, means 100% CPU usage.

Is there any way I could put the main thread to sleep? Or perhaps my
approach is totally wrong?



From bblais at bryant.edu  Sat Feb 13 12:01:36 2010
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:01:36 -0500
Subject: multiprocessing and games
Message-ID: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>

Hello,

I've been thinking about implementing some simple games, where one  
can program agents to play the game.  I thought that the  
multiprocessing module would be perfect for it, organized with a main  
simulator engine spawning processes for each agent.  However, I am  
having trouble wrapping my head around the organization of the code.   
I haven't found a lot of examples of using multiprocessing, and no  
game implementations.

There are two types of games that I would like to implement.  In both  
cases, I'd like to be able to run something like:

results=Sim.run('agent1.py','agent2.py')

where the Sim object is initialized before with the board size,  
placement of pieces, etc...  The files agent1.py and agent2.py would  
have the code to run the agent.  The two types of games are different  
in terms of the organization of the agent code.  In the first, which  
I think should be more straightforward, there will be one function  
defined in the file with syntax like:

def agent(board,my_player_number):
     # stuff here for the agent
     return move

Think "tic-tac-toe" here.  The simulator would have to spawn  
processes, which load these files and handle the communication to the  
main simulator.  The main simulator would loop through the agents,  
get moves, and then update the board with these moves.  In the case  
of tic-tac-toe, then each agent is called in serial, and the update  
after each move.  In the case of something like Civilization or Tron,  
the moves are all collected and then the board is updated.

The other type of game, which would work like Tron or Civilization,  
the agent file would not contain a function but a list of commands,  
like:

North()
North()
if Neighbor['North']:
     East()
# etc...

I am not sure what the best way to organize the code, in either case,  
for the main simulator or the best way to use multiprocessing here.   
I thought that maybe Pipe would be the best choice, and for each move  
there would be a send() and recv() between each agent and the main  
simulator, where the agent would receive updated information after  
each move.  What happens if an agent has an infinite loop (ignores a  
signal from the simulator that it has lost)?  Can the simulator catch  
this, and kill the process?  Does that happen if either side closes  
the pipe?  Is there an obvious way to structure this sort of game  
engine?  Is there an implementation already out there that I am  
reinventing?  What information would be best to send to the agent?    
I was finding myself using more global variables than I was  
comfortable, so I figured I was thinking about this incorrectly.


Any help would be great!  Pointers to other examples of using  
multiprocessing, especially with games, would be fantastic.


		thanks,
			Brian Blais


-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
http://bblais.blogspot.com/



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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 12:02:53 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:02:53 +0000
Subject: threading and signals - main thread solely responsible for signal
	handling?
In-Reply-To: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B76DB3D.9010603@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Maligree wrote:
> The main part of my script is a function that does many long reads
> (urlopen, it's looped). Since I'm hell-bent on employing SIGINFO to
> display some stats, I needed to run foo() as a seperate thread to
> avoid getting errno 4 (interrupted system call) errors (which occur if
> SIGINFO is received while urlopen is setting itself up/waiting for a
> response). This does the job, SIGINFO is handled without ever brutally
> interrupting urlopen.
> 
> The problem is that after starting foo as a thread, my main thread has
> nothing left to do - unless it receives a signal, and I am forced to
> keep it in some sort of loop so that ANY signal handling can still
> occur. I thought I'd just occupy it with a simple while 1: pass loop
> but that, unfortunately, means 100% CPU usage.
> 
> Is there any way I could put the main thread to sleep? Or perhaps my
> approach is totally wrong?
> 
The simplest fix is to call time.sleep(seconds) in the loop. Repeated
sleeps of 1 second, for example, consume very little CPU time.


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sat Feb 13 12:22:26 2010
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:22:26 -0000
Subject: threading and signals - main thread solely responsible for signal
	handling?
In-Reply-To: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100213172226.26099.213963272.divmod.xquotient.1291@localhost.localdomain>

On 04:43 pm, maligree at gmail.com wrote:
>The main part of my script is a function that does many long reads
>(urlopen, it's looped). Since I'm hell-bent on employing SIGINFO to
>display some stats, I needed to run foo() as a seperate thread to
>avoid getting errno 4 (interrupted system call) errors (which occur if
>SIGINFO is received while urlopen is setting itself up/waiting for a
>response). This does the job, SIGINFO is handled without ever brutally
>interrupting urlopen.
>
>The problem is that after starting foo as a thread, my main thread has
>nothing left to do - unless it receives a signal, and I am forced to
>keep it in some sort of loop so that ANY signal handling can still
>occur. I thought I'd just occupy it with a simple while 1: pass loop
>but that, unfortunately, means 100% CPU usage.
>
>Is there any way I could put the main thread to sleep? Or perhaps my
>approach is totally wrong?

I don't think those two options are mutually exclusive. ;)

MRAB suggested you time.sleep() in a loop, which is probably fine. 
However, if you want to have even /less/ activity than that in the main 
thread, take a look at signal.pause().

Also, perhaps not terribly interesting, signal.siginterrupt() was 
recently introduced, which will let you avoid EINTR if SIGINFO is 
received while urlopen is in a syscall (but will also prevent the signal 
from being handled until the syscall returns on its own).

And there's always Twisted & friends. :)

Jean-Paul


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 12:54:33 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:54:33 +0000
Subject: multiprocessing and games
In-Reply-To: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>
References: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <4B76E759.3010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Brian Blais wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've been thinking about implementing some simple games, where one can 
> program agents to play the game.  I thought that the multiprocessing 
> module would be perfect for it, organized with a main simulator engine 
> spawning processes for each agent.  However, I am having trouble 
> wrapping my head around the organization of the code.  I haven't found a 
> lot of examples of using multiprocessing, and no game implementations.
> 
> There are two types of games that I would like to implement.  In both 
> cases, I'd like to be able to run something like:
> 
> results=Sim.run('agent1.py','agent2.py')
> 
> where the Sim object is initialized before with the board size, 
> placement of pieces, etc...  The files agent1.py and agent2.py would 
> have the code to run the agent.  The two types of games are different in 
> terms of the organization of the agent code.  In the first, which I 
> think should be more straightforward, there will be one function defined 
> in the file with syntax like:
> 
> def agent(board,my_player_number):
>     # stuff here for the agent
>     return move
> 
> Think "tic-tac-toe" here.  The simulator would have to spawn processes, 
> which load these files and handle the communication to the main 
> simulator.  The main simulator would loop through the agents, get moves, 
> and then update the board with these moves.  In the case of tic-tac-toe, 
> then each agent is called in serial, and the update after each move.  In 
> the case of something like Civilization or Tron, the moves are all 
> collected and then the board is updated.
> 
> The other type of game, which would work like Tron or Civilization, the 
> agent file would not contain a function but a list of commands, like:
> 
> North()
> North()
> if Neighbor['North']:
>     East()
> # etc...
> 
> I am not sure what the best way to organize the code, in either case, 
> for the main simulator or the best way to use multiprocessing here.  I 
> thought that maybe Pipe would be the best choice, and for each move 
> there would be a send() and recv() between each agent and the main 
> simulator, where the agent would receive updated information after each 
> move.  What happens if an agent has an infinite loop (ignores a signal 
> from the simulator that it has lost)?  Can the simulator catch this, and 
> kill the process?  Does that happen if either side closes the pipe?  Is 
> there an obvious way to structure this sort of game engine?  Is there an 
> implementation already out there that I am reinventing?  What 
> information would be best to send to the agent?   I was finding myself 
> using more global variables than I was comfortable, so I figured I was 
> thinking about this incorrectly.
> 
> 
> Any help would be great!  Pointers to other examples of using 
> multiprocessing, especially with games, would be fantastic.
> 
Forget about global variables, they're not worth it! :-)

Think in terms of messages, sent via pipes, sockets or multiprocessing
queues.

In a game like "tic-tac-toe" (also known as "noughts and crosses", BTW),
the sim sends a message to an agent requesting a move ("what's your
move"). The agent can send requests for the state of the board ("what's
at position (x, y)?") and get replies ("it's a X"/"it's a O"/"it's
empty"), but at some point it must send the sim its move ("put a piece
at (x, y)") and the sim can say whether it's valid ("OK"/"bad move").

If the agent takes too long then the sim sends just tells the agent that
it took too long and should quit ("quit").



From as at sci.fi  Sat Feb 13 13:52:41 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:52:41 +0200
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>
	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
	<7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vg3r5opotmu.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:

> Am 13.02.10 17:18, schrieb Anssi Saari:
>> Nobody<nobody at nowhere.com>  writes:
>>
>>> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 64-bit CPU
>>> and OS.
>>
>> That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
>> allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
>> Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.
>
> No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit
> through paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.

That too. I admit, after checking, that you can't go above 3 GiB per
process even in server Windows. But for Linux there exists (or
existed, since it seems it hasn't been updated since 2004) a kernel
patch which provides a "4GB/4GB" address split. Kernel is in one
segment, userland in another and hence a process can access full 4GB.


From m.faustino at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 14:31:47 2010
From: m.faustino at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rcio_Faustino?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:31:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MemoryError in imaplib?
Message-ID: <79bafa50-1f13-4b7a-9f3b-937cb2860c80@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

When using "imaplib" to fetch e-mail messages, the "IMAP4_SSL.read"
and "IMAP4_SSL.readline" functions sometimes throw a "MemoryError"
exception in "chunks.append(data)" and "line.append(char)",
respectively. But if I change those functions to use instead a
"cStringIO" buffer object, then that exception doesn't get thrown.

Is this normal? I've seen this happen with Python 2.6.4 in both
Windows XP 32-bit and Windows 7 64-bit.

Thanks,


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 14:46:26 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:46:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
Message-ID: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hello, searched all over but no success. I want to have a script
output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.
In Python 2, I just said this:

if len(sys.argv)==True:

and it seemed to work. Py3 must have broken that by sending a list
with the path to the script in BOTH the browser and Terminal. Is there
some newfangled way to determine what is running the script (hopefully
without a try wrapper)?

-- Gnarlie


From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb 13 14:55:05 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:55:05 +0100
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
In-Reply-To: <4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b77039a$0$12387$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,




News123 wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
> 
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>>>
>>> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with
>>> CTRL-C
>>>
>>> The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under
>>> Windows)
>>>
>>> If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
>>> It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
>>> function.
>> Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
>> On previous versions you may use this:
>>
>> class MyXMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer):
>>
>>     ... your methods ...
>>
>>     if not hasattr(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, 'shutdown'):
>>
>>         # pre 2.6
>>         quit = False
>>
>>         def serve_forever(self):
>>             while not self.quit:
>>                 self.handle_request()
>>
>>         def shutdown(self):
>>             self.quit = True
>>
>>         def server_bind(self):
>>             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
>>             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)
>>
> 
> Overloading  server_bind() with your version solved my problem.
> 

Overloading server_bind() makes the server killable with ctrl-C.

I noticed however, that I can't use this as solution.
If the bind function sets a time out, then it seems,

that there are regular small time windows, when connecting clients fail.
I don't have the error message any more, but will post it when I capture
the event next time.


bye

N



From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:03:28 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:03:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python and http POST
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2423.1265961606.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12f5dcf0-74aa-4c10-960e-90946d1ed853@b18g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all for your responses, and Javier thank you for your longer
response. I've just downloaded mechanize and beautifulsoup and will
start to play around.

>From a pure learning standpoint, however, I'd really like to learn how
to use the python post method (without mechanize) to go to a webpage,
fill in a form, click 'submit', follow the redirect to the results
page, and download content.

For example, if I go to google.com, use firebug and click on the
search bar, the following HTML is highlighted:

<input value="" title="Google Search" class="lst" size="55" name="q"
maxlength="2048"
onblur="google&amp;&amp;google.fade&amp;&amp;google.fade()"
autocomplete="off">

So if I were to use the 'post' method, how can I tell from the code
above what the ID of the searchbar is? Is it 'value', 'name', or
neither?

Assuming that the ID is 'name', then to search google for the term
'olypmics' would the proper code be:

import httplib2
import urllib
data = {'q':'olympics'}
body = urllib.urlencode(data)
h = httplib2.Http()
resp, content = h.request("http://www.google.com", method="POST",
body=body)
print content;

Does content return the content of the 'search results' page? And if
not, how do I tell python to do that?
Finally, must I transmit headers, or are they optional?

Thanks all for your continued help!

Matt


On Feb 12, 2:59?am, Javier Collado <javier.coll... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I haven't used httplib2, but you can certainly use any other
> alternative to send HTTP requests:
> - urllib/urllib2
> - mechanize
>
> With regard to how do you find the form you're looking for, you may:
> - create the HTTP request on your own with urllib2. To find out what
> variables do you need to post, you can use tamperdata Firefox addon as
> suggested (I haven't used that one) or httpfox (I have and it works
> great).
> - use mechanize to locate the form for you, fill the data in and click
> on the submit button.
>
> Additionally, you may wan to scrape some data that may be useful for
> your requests. For that BeautifulSoup is good solution (with some
> Firebug help to visually locate what you're looking for).
>
> Best regards,
> ? ? Javier
>
> P.S. Some examples here:http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-pythonhttp://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python-part-2
>
> 2010/2/11 galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hey All,
>
> > Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> > program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> > fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> > result.
>
> > I'm using httplib2.
>
> > My two particular questions:
>
> > 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> > how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> > do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> > fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> > source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> > key?
>
> > 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> > 'submit' the search?
>
> > Thanks all!
>
> > Matt
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 13 15:16:20 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:16:20 -0800
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
In-Reply-To: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002131216v4ab1e695x1e082e017f6a4fb2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, searched all over but no success. I want to have a script
> output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.
> In Python 2, I just said this:
>
> if len(sys.argv)==True:

That line doesn't make sense really as it is practically equivalent to:

if len(sys.argv) == 1:

Which, since argv always contains at least 1 element (the program's
name), is essentially checking whether /no/ arguments were passed on
the command line.
Recall that issubclass(bool, int) is true and that True == 1 in Python
due to details of said subclassing.

Note also that "== True" is almost always unnecessary as it is
essentially implicit in the "if".

I suspect you instead meant to write:

if len(sys.argv) > 0:

which for the record can be written more idiomatically as:

if sys.argv: # bool(some_list) is True if some_list is not empty

Which, however, as I explained, is always true since argv is /never/
completely empty, and thus the test is useless. What you probably
*wanted* is:

if len(sys.argv) > 1:

Which is effectively the opposite of my very first code snippet and
checks whether we /were/ passed some arguments on the command line.

> and it seemed to work.

By happy accident I suspect, due to the aforementioned way == works
between bools and ints and probably a logic error in your code.

> Py3 must have broken that by sending a list
> with the path to the script in BOTH the browser and Terminal. Is there
> some newfangled way to determine what is running the script (hopefully
> without a try wrapper)?

How exactly are you running the script *"in"* the browser? Browsers
can only execute JavaScript, not Python. Do you mean you're running it
via a webserver?
If so, there are /several/ possible ways of doing that, please explain
exactly which you are using.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:16:38 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:16:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python and http POST
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2423.1265961606.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <29a9914f-e5f4-4a18-93fb-3b032aebac4b@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all for your responses, and Javier thank you for your longer
response. I've just downloaded mechanize and beautifulsoup and will
start to play around.

>From a pure learning standpoint, however, I'd really like to learn how
to use the python post method (without mechanize) to go to a webpage,
fill in a form, click 'submit', follow the redirect to the results
page, and download content.

For example, if I go to google.com, use firebug and click on the
search bar, the following HTML is highlighted:

<input value="" title="Google Search" class="lst" size="55" name="q"
maxlength="2048"
onblur="google&amp;&amp;google.fade&amp;&amp;google.fade()"
autocomplete="off">

So if I were to use the 'post' method, how can I tell from the code
above what the ID of the searchbar is? Is it 'value', 'name', or
neither?

Assuming that the ID is 'name', then to search google for the term
'olypmics' would the proper code be:

import httplib2
import urllib
data = {'q':'olympics'}
body = urllib.urlencode(data)
h = httplib2.Http()
resp, content = h.request("http://www.google.com", method="POST",
body=body)
print content;

Does content return the content of the 'search results' page? And if
not, how do I tell python to do that?
Finally, must I transmit headers, or are they optional?

Thanks all for your continued help!

Matt


On Feb 12, 2:59?am, Javier Collado <javier.coll... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I haven't used httplib2, but you can certainly use any other
> alternative to send HTTP requests:
> - urllib/urllib2
> - mechanize
>
> With regard to how do you find the form you're looking for, you may:
> - create the HTTP request on your own with urllib2. To find out what
> variables do you need to post, you can use tamperdata Firefox addon as
> suggested (I haven't used that one) or httpfox (I have and it works
> great).
> - use mechanize to locate the form for you, fill the data in and click
> on the submit button.
>
> Additionally, you may wan to scrape some data that may be useful for
> your requests. For that BeautifulSoup is good solution (with some
> Firebug help to visually locate what you're looking for).
>
> Best regards,
> ? ? Javier
>
> P.S. Some examples here:http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-pythonhttp://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python-part-2
>
> 2010/2/11 galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hey All,
>
> > Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> > program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> > fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> > result.
>
> > I'm using httplib2.
>
> > My two particular questions:
>
> > 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> > how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> > do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> > fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> > source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> > key?
>
> > 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> > 'submit' the search?
>
> > Thanks all!
>
> > Matt
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 13 15:17:15 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:17:15 +0100
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
In-Reply-To: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7tofmbFdmjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 13.02.10 20:46, schrieb Gnarlodious:
> Hello, searched all over but no success. I want to have a script
> output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.
> In Python 2, I just said this:
>
> if len(sys.argv)==True:
>
> and it seemed to work. Py3 must have broken that by sending a list
> with the path to the script in BOTH the browser and Terminal. Is there
> some newfangled way to determine what is running the script (hopefully
> without a try wrapper)?

I have no idea what you mean by "running python in a browser". I can 
only guess you mean as cgi or mod_python-skript?

However, maybe

if os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()):


works for you.

Or you could check for certain environment variables that are present 
when running as CGI or mod_python skript, but not knowing *what* you do 
can only lead to educated guesses at best.

Diez


From timr at probo.com  Sat Feb 13 15:29:45 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:29:45 -0800
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkum2p$4i0$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2331.1265841480.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1n2en51qqliplc2u8q78l3gt2dn3vmeh8d@4ax.com>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>
>The original problem was with the RDTSC instruction on multicore CPUs;  
>different cores may yield different results because they're not  
>synchronized at all times.

Not true.  The synchronization issue has two causes:  initial
synchronization at boot time, and power management making microscopic
adjustments to the clock rate.  In Windows NT 4, Microsoft took extra pains
to adjust the cycle counters on multiprocessor computers during boot so
that the processors started out very close together.  Once set, they
naturally remained in lock step, until aggressive power management because
more prevalent.  In XP, they stopped trying to align at boot time.

>Windows XP was launched in 2001, and the first dual core processors able  
>to execute Windows were AMD Opteron and IBM Pentium D, both launched  
>around April 2005 (and targeting the server market, not the home/desktop  
>market of Windows XP).
>How could MS know in 2001 of a hardware issue that would happen four years  
>in the future?

No, you're underestimating the problem.  The issue occurs just as much in
machines with multiple processor chips, which was supported clear back in
the original NT 3.1, 1992.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:34:36 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<7tofmbFdmjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a08b8037-29ef-4638-9062-c407000dc026@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 1:17?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" wrote:

> However, maybe
>
> if os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()):

OK, this works in Python 2:

#!/usr/bin/python
import sys, os

if __name__=="__main__":
 if os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()):
  print "Terminal"
 else:
  print "Content-type:text/html\n\nBROWSER"


likewise in Python3:

#!/usr/local/bin/python3.1
import sys, os

if __name__=="__main__":
 if os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()):
  print("Terminal")
 else:
  print("Content-type:text/html\n\nBROWSER")


Thank you, always impressed with the fast help here.

-- Gnarlie


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:37:57 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:37:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python and http POST
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2423.1265961606.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5df948ae-db27-4dc4-9ceb-c0777fca7678@28g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all for your responses, and Javier thank you for your longer
response. I've just downloaded mechanize and beautifulsoup and will
start to play around.

>From a pure learning standpoint, however, I'd really like to learn how
to use the python post method (without mechanize) to go to a webpage,
fill in a form, click 'submit', follow the redirect to the results
page, and download content.

For example, if I go to google.com, use firebug and click on the
search bar, the following HTML is highlighted:

<input value="" title="Google Search" class="lst" size="55" name="q"
maxlength="2048"
onblur="google&amp;&amp;google.fade&amp;&amp;google.fade()"
autocomplete="off">

So if I were to use the 'post' method, how can I tell from the code
above what the ID of the searchbar is? Is it 'value', 'name', or
neither?

Assuming that the ID is 'name', then to search google for the term
'olypmics' would the proper code be:

import httplib2
import urllib
data = {'q':'olympics'}
body = urllib.urlencode(data)
h = httplib2.Http()
resp, content = h.request("http://www.google.com", method="POST",
body=body)
print content;

Does content return the content of the 'search results' page? And if
not, how do I tell python to do that?
Finally, must I transmit headers, or are they optional?

Thanks all for your continued help!

Matt


On Feb 12, 2:59?am, Javier Collado <javier.coll... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I haven't used httplib2, but you can certainly use any other
> alternative to send HTTP requests:
> - urllib/urllib2
> - mechanize
>
> With regard to how do you find the form you're looking for, you may:
> - create the HTTP request on your own with urllib2. To find out what
> variables do you need to post, you can use tamperdata Firefox addon as
> suggested (I haven't used that one) or httpfox (I have and it works
> great).
> - use mechanize to locate the form for you, fill the data in and click
> on the submit button.
>
> Additionally, you may wan to scrape some data that may be useful for
> your requests. For that BeautifulSoup is good solution (with some
> Firebug help to visually locate what you're looking for).
>
> Best regards,
> ? ? Javier
>
> P.S. Some examples here:http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-pythonhttp://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python-part-2
>
> 2010/2/11 galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hey All,
>
> > Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> > program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> > fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> > result.
>
> > I'm using httplib2.
>
> > My two particular questions:
>
> > 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> > how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> > do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> > fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> > source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> > key?
>
> > 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> > 'submit' the search?
>
> > Thanks all!
>
> > Matt
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Feb 13 17:19:17 2010
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:19:17 -0800
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
In-Reply-To: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl78h4$lto$1@ger.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gnarlodious wrote:
> I want to have a script
> output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.

You may also want to look into urwid.  It provides you with a text console
interface but can also provide HTML.  It has widgets like text boxes, lists,
tick boxes etc.

Roger

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkt3JWUACgkQmOOfHg372QRifACfYKS7+bmt6F3WPXYatM7yKVcs
knMAoLx5sJ3lFmofrrgHaS3aYOBAun0d
=Nxd4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From bblais at bryant.edu  Sat Feb 13 17:32:15 2010
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:32:15 -0500
Subject: multiprocessing and games
In-Reply-To: <4B76E759.3010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>
	<4B76E759.3010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <694A55DA-6557-486A-A0D5-B3B19C8B2D6F@bryant.edu>

On Feb 13, 2010, at 12:54 , MRAB wrote:

> Brian Blais wrote:
>> I've been thinking about implementing some simple games

> Forget about global variables, they're not worth it! :-)
>
> Think in terms of messages, sent via pipes, sockets or multiprocessing
> queues.
>


okay...let's make this concrete.  given your ideas, I have it working  
for the first type of agent, namely one that is called like:

	move=agent(board,player)

For a specific example, I'm using the simplest version of a game  
called Nim.  You start with a number of sticks, players take turns  
taking 1, 2, or 3 sticks, and you lose if you take the last stick.   
Two agents for this are:

# agent1.py - simple take 1 agent
def agent(board,player):
     return 1

# agent2.py - perfect player
def agent(board,player):
     move=(board-1)%4
     if move==0:
         return 1
     else:
         return move

I run my simulator like (complete code below):

s=Sim('agent1','agent2')
winner=s.run()

and it spawns two processes, passes messages between the sim and the  
agents, and closes the agents nicely when the game is over.  I'm not  
sure how I catch errors in the agents, especially accidental infinite  
loops.

Now the second type of agent is structured differently.  I'd like  
something like:

# agent3.py - simple take 1 agent
def agent(state):

     while True:
         Take(1)

# agent4.py - perfect player
def agent(state):

     N=state['board']  # get the current information
     while True:
         move=(N-1)%4
         if move==0:
             Take(1)
         else:
             Take(move)

I tried to implement this in the second wrapper below, but I can't  
get the agent function to "see" local functions in the wrapper.  I  
probably need an import somewhere, but I haven't quite figured out  
the scoping with multiprocessing, etc...

I include the code below.  The two message-passing wrappers are  
there, and it works for the first two agents, but not the second two  
because of scoping issues.

Is there a better way to be doing this?  Are there other examples  
like this that I can look at to improve what I am doing?


		thanks,

			Brian Blais

-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
http://bblais.blogspot.com/



# testing multiprocessing with games
from __future__ import with_statement
from multiprocessing import Pipe,Process


def wrap_agent(connection,fname):
     agent_module = __import__(fname)

     end=False
     while not end:
         state=connection.recv()
         if state['done']:
             break

         move=agent_module.agent(state['board'],state['player'])

         connection.send(move)

     print "%s done" % fname
     connection.close()

def wrap_agent2(connection,fname):

     def Take(T):
         state1=connection.recv()
         state.update(state1)
         if state['done']:
             raise ValueError  # should probably use a custom exception

         move=T
         connection.send(move)

     execfile(fname+".py")
     print locals()  # seems to appear in locals


     state=connection.recv()
     if state['done']:
         print "%s done" % fname
         connection.close()
         return

     try:
         agent(state)
     except ValueError:
         pass

     print "%s done" % fname
     connection.close()



class Sim(object):

     def __init__(self,agent1,agent2,type=1):

         self.agent_files=[agent1,agent2]
         self.type=type

     def run(self):
         self.processes=[]
         self.connections=[]
         for fname in self.agent_files:
             parent,child=Pipe()
             self.connections.append(parent)

             if self.type==1:
                 proc=Process(target=wrap_agent, args=(child,fname,))
             else:
                 proc=Process(target=wrap_agent2, args=(child,fname,))

             self.processes.append(proc)

         for proc in self.processes:
             proc.start()

         current_player,other_player=1,2
         N=23

         state={}

         while N>1:

             state['board']=N
             state['player']=current_player
             state['done']=False

             c=self.connections[current_player-1]

             print "Number of sticks: ",N
             c.send(state)
             move=c.recv()
             print "Player ",current_player,"takes ",move

             N-=move
             current_player,other_player=other_player,current_player

         print "Number of sticks: ",N

         # send the end signals
         state['done']=True
         for c in self.connections:
             c.send(state)
         for p in self.processes:
             p.join()

         if N==1:
             winner=other_player
         else:
             winner=current_player

         print "Winner is ",winner
         return winner

if __name__=="__main__":

     s=Sim('agent1','agent2')
     winner=s.run()
     print "============"
     s=Sim('agent3','agent4',type=2)
     winner=s.run()


  
    
-------------- next part --------------
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From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 13 17:50:38 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:50:38 -0600
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87pr48agxt.fsf@castleamber.com>

Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello, searched all over but no success. I want to have a script
> output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.
> In Python 2, I just said this:
>
> if len(sys.argv)==True:
>
> and it seemed to work. Py3 must have broken that by sending a list
> with the path to the script in BOTH the browser and Terminal. Is there
> some newfangled way to determine what is running the script (hopefully
> without a try wrapper)?

Your web server (assuming CGI) sets some environment variables, which
you could test for. This has as advantage (or disadvantage) that you can
set the variable at the CLI and see the output the browser could get.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 17:56:58 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:56:58 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Michael Sparks:
> 
[Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it 
all!), I felt it necessary to respond. It turned out to be a long sequence of 
trivial fallacies, peppered with various allegations and insinuations.]


[snip extremely much]

> Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
> 
> Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
> is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
> (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
> 
> There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
> which can be found here:
> 
> http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/
> 
> This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
> 
> Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
> therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
> The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
> and pointers.

At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.

If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about 
pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.

But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell must be 
some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing complete  --  is that 
acceptable to you?


> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation
> will be passing a reference or pointer" is invalid. There is
> after all at least one implementation that does not rely on
> such machine oriented language details.

I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.

And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.

There is need to talk about "in reality" (as if the language spec and general 
semantics isn't real enough) nor to talk about any specific implementation.


[snip very much]

> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you,
> since that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and
> puts into context the responses you have gained from others.
> 
> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE
> ALL WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one
> does not to understand what one is talking about does not
> tend to engender warm fluffy feelings or sentiments of
> authority towards such an individual. Be it me, you, or
> anyone else.
> 
> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a
> behaviour. Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't
> care about  my viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it
> if you would try not to be inflammatory in your response
> to this. (Since you do appear to also have a need to have
> the last word)
> 
> Hoping this was useful on some level,

Yes.

I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you presented.

The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python, shared, 
however, the basic property of being logical fallacies packaged in kilometers of 
rambling text.


Cheers,

- Alf


From vahuja4 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 18:44:37 2010
From: vahuja4 at gmail.com (Vish)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:44:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hashing in python
Message-ID: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I need to hash 3d coordinates to a grid which has been divided into
4*4*4 squares. Using python, I thought of a simple way as follows:

CELL_SIZE = 4

def key(point):

    return (
        int((floor(point[0]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
        int((floor(point[1]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
        int((floor(point[2]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE)
    )


Since python allows keys to be tuples, I think that this should work.
Is there a better (more efficient) way to do it?

Thank you,
Vishal


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 13 18:54:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:52 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl7e4k$41c$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Michael Sparks:
> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it all!)
[...]
>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>> details.
> 
> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
> 
> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
> 
I see we are still all out of step with you. If it's a fallacy then I'd
like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.

As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.

You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
you) paranoid.

[...]
> 
>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, 
>> since that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>> 
>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>> 
>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>> also have a need to have the last word)
>> 
>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
> 
> Yes.
> 
> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
> presented.
> 
> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python, 
> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
> 
And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it. It
makes me wonder why we have paid you the compliment of engaging you in
debate, since this is the most transparent evidence to date that what
comes back will be unrelated to the arguments presented.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 13 19:43:34 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 00:43:34 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b774736$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:59:42 -0800, Michael Sparks wrote:

> Now, if I define a language, this has 3 main parts:
>    * Syntax
>    * Semantics
>    * Implementation
[snip]

Michael, that is remarkable. Excellent work, thank you!

-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 19:47:18 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:47:18 +0000
Subject: Hashing in python
In-Reply-To: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B774816.4040103@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Vish wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need to hash 3d coordinates to a grid which has been divided into
> 4*4*4 squares. Using python, I thought of a simple way as follows:
> 
> CELL_SIZE = 4
> 
> def key(point):
> 
>     return (
>         int((floor(point[0]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
>         int((floor(point[1]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
>         int((floor(point[2]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE)
>     )
> 
> 
> Since python allows keys to be tuples, I think that this should work.
> Is there a better (more efficient) way to do it?
> 
floor(x) returns an integer, so floor(x/CELL_SIZE)*CELL_SIZE is an
integer multiple of CELL_SIZE, also an integer. There's actually no
point (unintentional pun!) to multiplying by CELL_SIZE:

CELL_SIZE = 4

def key(point):
     return (
         floor(point[0] / CELL_SIZE),
         floor(point[1] / CELL_SIZE),
         floor(point[2] / CELL_SIZE)
     )



From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Sat Feb 13 19:48:31 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:48:31 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
Message-ID: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>

Hi,

I'm constantly working in the command line and need to write a program
to give me alerts on my battery. Can someone please tell me what module
I should use to access battery information? Looking for something that
perhaps makes use of acpi so I can get estimated time left as well as a
percentage.

Thanks very much for any help,
Dan


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 19:50:01 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:50:01 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Michael Sparks:
>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it all!)
> [...]
>>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>>> details.
>> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
>>
>> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
>>
> I see we are still all out of step with you.

Why did you snip the short argument?


> If it's a fallacy then I'd
> like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.

Oh, you snipped it so that you didn't have to present it to readers.

That's dishonest, Steve Holden.

Requoting:

<quote>
 > Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
 >
 > Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
 > is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
 > (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
 >
 > There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
 > which can be found here:
 >
 > http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/
 >
 > This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
 >
 > Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
 > therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
 > The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
 > and pointers.

At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.

If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about 
pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.

But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell must be 
some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing complete  --  is that 
acceptable to you?
<quote>


> As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
> use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
> neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
> an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.

That's meaningless.

But then so is maintaining that Python doesn't have references.

And so is your argument applied to Pascal, just to mention that again.


> You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
> misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
> you) paranoid.

On top of the multiple fallacies, dubious snipping of arguments, statements that 
such arguments have not been presented (just after snipping them), and general 
misleading insinuations and misrepresentation, ad yet another bit of personal 
attack.

Do you understand what that may say to readers about you, Steve Holden?

Apparently it's all to defend an indefensible, idiotic position. But I think 
you're doing it at least partially for the fun of harassing someone.


> [...]
>>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, 
>>> since that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>>>
>>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>>>
>>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>>> also have a need to have the last word)
>>>
>>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
>> Yes.
>>
>> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
>> presented.
>>
>> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python, 
>> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
>> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
>>
> And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it.

No, you can not quote any place I have said that I haven't read his article. I 
did read most of it. So you are yet again within the span of one posted article 
presenting untrue information that you know is not true.


> It
> makes me wonder why we have paid you the compliment of engaging you in
> debate,

Gosh, I don't know. You must be stupid to do that. Yes?


> since this is the most transparent evidence to date that what
> comes back will be unrelated to the arguments presented.

That is untrue, Steve Holden, and since you can't quote that "evidence", since 
you evidently /have/ read my short article which you're responding to, knowing 
exactly what to snip, you know that what you're saying is untrue. I think this 
is your third lie in one posting. But who would care to count.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sat Feb 13 19:56:16 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:56:16 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002131656lb8f165dt4b71cfed73b7d5be@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>
> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.
>
> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about
> pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
>
> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell must
> be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing complete ?--
> ?is that acceptable to you?
> <quote>
>

You're actually just proving his point here. It doesn't matter what
model Haskell uses, a version of Pascal implemented in Haskell has
pointers. Likewise, regardless of what model the implementation of
Python uses, Python itself doesn't have pointers, it has objects and
names.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 20:01:20 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:01:20 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl7i04$c9m$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Michael Sparks:
>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to 
>>> read it all!)
>> [...]
>>>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>>>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>>>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>>>> details.
>>> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
>>>
>>> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
>>>
>> I see we are still all out of step with you.
> 
> Why did you snip the short argument?
> 
> 
>> If it's a fallacy then I'd
>> like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.
> 
> Oh, you snipped it so that you didn't have to present it to readers.
> 
> That's dishonest, Steve Holden.
> 
> Requoting:
> 
> <quote>
>  > Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
>  >
>  > Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
>  > is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
>  > (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
>  >
>  > There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
>  > which can be found here:
>  >
>  > 
> http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/ 
> 
>  >
>  > This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
>  >
>  > Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
>  > therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
>  > The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
>  > and pointers.
> 
> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in 
> Haskell.
> 
> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions 
> about pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
> 
> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell 
> must be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing 
> complete  --  is that acceptable to you?
> <quote>
> 
> 
>> As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
>> use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
>> neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
>> an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.
> 
> That's meaningless.
> 
> But then so is maintaining that Python doesn't have references.
> 
> And so is your argument applied to Pascal, just to mention that again.
> 
> 
>> You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
>> misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
>> you) paranoid.
> 
> On top of the multiple fallacies, dubious snipping of arguments, 
> statements that such arguments have not been presented (just after 
> snipping them), and general misleading insinuations and 
> misrepresentation, ad yet another bit of personal attack.
> 
> Do you understand what that may say to readers about you, Steve Holden?
> 
> Apparently it's all to defend an indefensible, idiotic position. But I 
> think you're doing it at least partially for the fun of harassing someone.
> 
> 
>> [...]
>>>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, since 
>>>> that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>>>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>>>>
>>>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>>>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>>>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>>>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>>>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>>>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>>>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>>>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>>>> also have a need to have the last word)
>>>>
>>>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
>>> presented.
>>>
>>> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python, 
>>> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
>>> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
>>>
>> And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it.
> 
> No, you can not quote any place I have said that I haven't read his 
> article. I did read most of it. So you are yet again within the span of 
> one posted article presenting untrue information that you know is not true.
> 
> 
>> It
>> makes me wonder why we have paid you the compliment of engaging you in
>> debate,
> 
> Gosh, I don't know. You must be stupid to do that. Yes?
> 
> 
>> since this is the most transparent evidence to date that what
>> comes back will be unrelated to the arguments presented.
> 
> That is untrue, Steve Holden, and since you can't quote that "evidence", 
> since you evidently /have/ read my short article which you're responding 
> to, knowing exactly what to snip, you know that what you're saying is 
> untrue. I think this is your third lie in one posting. But who would 
> care to count.
> 
> 
> Cheers & hth.,
> 
> - Alf

You really are the most insulting arrogant bastard I've ever read on 
c.l.py in the eight years that I've been using Python.  Did you get your 
training at the Dr Goebbels School of Propaganda?

Most disgustedly.

Mark Lawrence



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 20:21:51 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:21:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
Message-ID: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
the user choose.

I think this should be quite straightforward.

How should I proceed?


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 13 20:26:02 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:26:02 -0800
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Daniel Dalton <d.dalton at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm constantly working in the command line and need to write a program
> to give me alerts on my battery. Can someone please tell me what module
> I should use to access battery information? Looking for something that
> perhaps makes use of acpi so I can get estimated time left as well as a
> percentage.

It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 20:28:13 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:28:13 +0100
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
In-Reply-To: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* vsoler:
> Hi,
> 
> My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
> would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
> needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
> Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
> the user choose.
> 
> I think this should be quite straightforward.
> 
> How should I proceed?

At least in Windows one easy way is to delegate that responsibility to the 
Windows shell. When a user drags a file onto your script, your script is run 
with the path to that dragged file as argument. Or it can even be multiple files.

Otherwise, tkinter has, as I recall, a standard file chooser dialog.

These "standard" dialogs are generally called "common dialogs".

Just google for tkinter and suitable words.



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 20:29:49 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:59:49 +0530
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002131729n1d6e13b2pab7ddb5fd41b7a5b@mail.gmail.com>

I too am interested as to which module should I use. My OS is OS X Snow
Leopard.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Daniel Dalton <d.dalton at iinet.net.au>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm constantly working in the command line and need to write a program
> > to give me alerts on my battery. Can someone please tell me what module
> > I should use to access battery information? Looking for something that
> > perhaps makes use of acpi so I can get estimated time left as well as a
> > percentage.
>
> It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 20:31:33 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:31:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

This thread is interesting on many levels.  What is the core question
that is being examined here?


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 20:34:11 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:34:11 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2515.1266109349.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2515.1266109349.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl7jqs$c9f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Benjamin Kaplan:
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.
>>
>> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about
>> pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
>>
>> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell must
>> be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing complete  --
>>  is that acceptable to you?
>> <quote>
>>
> 
> You're actually just proving his point here. It doesn't matter what
> model Haskell uses, a version of Pascal implemented in Haskell has
> pointers.

Yes, that kills his argument.

As you note, the Haskell bit is completely irrelevant.

So his use of Haskell implementation as a "no pointers" argument is completely 
bogus, a fallacy.


> Likewise, regardless of what model the implementation of
> Python uses, Python itself doesn't have pointers, it has objects and
> names.

Well that's wrong for at least one general meaning of "pointer", but why quibble 
about terminology?

Names in Python refer to objects.

Those references can be copied via assignment.

That's (almost) all.

And it provides a very short and neat way to describe pass by sharing.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Feb 13 20:37:08 2010
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:37:08 +1100
Subject: threading and signals - main thread solely responsible for
	signal handling?
In-Reply-To: <20100213172226.26099.213963272.divmod.xquotient.1291@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20100213172226.26099.213963272.divmod.xquotient.1291@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20100214013708.GA4636@cskk.homeip.net>

On 13Feb2010 17:22, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com <exarkun at twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
| On 04:43 pm, maligree at gmail.com wrote:
| >The main part of my script is a function that does many long reads
| >(urlopen, it's looped). Since I'm hell-bent on employing SIGINFO to
| >display some stats, I needed to run foo() as a seperate thread to
| >avoid getting errno 4 (interrupted system call) errors (which occur if
| >SIGINFO is received while urlopen is setting itself up/waiting for a
| >response). This does the job, SIGINFO is handled without ever brutally
| >interrupting urlopen.
| >
| >The problem is that after starting foo as a thread, my main thread has
| >nothing left to do - unless it receives a signal, and I am forced to
| >keep it in some sort of loop so that ANY signal handling can still
| >occur. I thought I'd just occupy it with a simple while 1: pass loop
| >but that, unfortunately, means 100% CPU usage.
[...]
| 
| MRAB suggested you time.sleep() in a loop, which is probably fine.
| However, if you want to have even /less/ activity than that in the
| main thread, take a look at signal.pause().

Funnily enough I coded this issue just a few weeks ago, and my main
program looks like this:

  def main(argv):
    xit = 0
    cmd = os.path.basename(argv[0])
    SM = SystemManager()
    [...set up a bunch of subsystems...]
    SM.startAll()
    try:
      signal.pause()
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
      warn("KeyboardInterrupt interrupts pause()")
      xit = 1
    SM.close()
    SM.join()
    return xit

So SM.close() tells all the subsystems to close and finish up.  That largely
involved putting the "EOF" sentinel value on a lot of Queues, causes the
subsystems to cease processing stuff.  The separate SM.join() does the actaul
waiting for everything.

This makes for clean and timely shutdown for me.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

If your new theorem can be stated with great simplicity, then there
will exist a pathological exception.    - Adrian Mathesis


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 20:38:40 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:38:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <381a8d2e-1212-4b26-a1d5-7370d23bfbb1@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 2:28?am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * vsoler:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
> > would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
> > needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
> > Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
> > the user choose.
>
> > I think this should be quite straightforward.
>
> > How should I proceed?
>
> At least in Windows one easy way is to delegate that responsibility to the
> Windows shell. When a user drags a file onto your script, your script is run
> with the path to that dragged file as argument. Or it can even be multiple files.
>
> Otherwise, tkinter has, as I recall, a standard file chooser dialog.
>
> These "standard" dialogs are generally called "common dialogs".
>
> Just google for tkinter and suitable words.
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

I'll try, thank you very much


From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Sat Feb 13 20:43:24 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:43:24 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 05:26:02PM -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
> It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?

Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux. 

Thanks,
Dan


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 20:43:29 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:43:29 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl7kca$g7g$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Howell:
> This thread is interesting on many levels.  What is the core question
> that is being examined here?

I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers to an 
object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the reference can be copied, 
and that the semantics of the language requires this and is defined in terms of 
this. Steve Holden, D'Aprano and many others maintain that there are no 
references, or that if there are then they're only an implementation aspect, 
i.e. that conceiveable one could have an implementation without them.

Regarding some other issues it seems to be a childish exercise in flaming, a 
flame war, with claims of insanity, incompetence, lying (that's actually from 
me, I reacted a bit strongly to faked quoting + conclusions from that in a 
posting not appearing on Usenet but on the Python mail list), etc. etc. ad 
nauseam, sprinkled with misrepresentations etc. I don't know the point of that.


Cheers,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 13 20:44:47 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:44:47 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl7kio$h5h$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Michael Sparks:
>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
>>> read it all!)
>> [...]
>>>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>>>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>>>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>>>> details.
>>> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
>>>
>>> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
>>>
>> I see we are still all out of step with you.
> 
> Why did you snip the short argument?
> 
Because it's irrelevant and fallacious.
> 
>> If it's a fallacy then I'd
>> like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.
> 
> Oh, you snipped it so that you didn't have to present it to readers.
> 
> That's dishonest, Steve Holden.
> 
> Requoting:
> 
> <quote>
>> Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
>>
>> Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
>> is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
>> (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
>>
>> There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
>> which can be found here:
>>
>>
> http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/
> 
>>
>> This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
>>
>> Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
>> therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
>> The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
>> and pointers.
> 
> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in
> Haskell.
> 
> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions
> about pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
> 
> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell
> must be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing
> complete  --  is that acceptable to you?
> <quote>
> 
This, if it says anything at all, appears to say that any
Turing-complete language has pointers in it, which is an absurdity.
> 
>> As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
>> use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
>> neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
>> an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.
> 
> That's meaningless.
> 
> But then so is maintaining that Python doesn't have references.
> 
> And so is your argument applied to Pascal, just to mention that again.
> 
*You* brought Pascal into this, not me.
> 
>> You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
>> misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
>> you) paranoid.
> 
> On top of the multiple fallacies, dubious snipping of arguments,
> statements that such arguments have not been presented (just after
> snipping them), and general misleading insinuations and
> misrepresentation, ad yet another bit of personal attack.
> 
> Do you understand what that may say to readers about you, Steve Holden?
> 
I'm happy to let readers draw their own conclusions about us both.

> Apparently it's all to defend an indefensible, idiotic position. But I
> think you're doing it at least partially for the fun of harassing someone.
>
Not at all. You have accused me of bullying behavior, but  in truth you
are the bully, and we know what happens when you give in to bullies,
don't we?
> 
>> [...]
>>>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, since
>>>> that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>>>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>>>>
>>>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>>>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>>>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>>>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>>>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>>>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>>>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>>>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>>>> also have a need to have the last word)
>>>>
>>>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
>>> presented.
>>>
>>> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python,
>>> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
>>> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
>>>
>> And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it.
> 
> No, you can not quote any place I have said that I haven't read his
> article. I did read most of it. So you are yet again within the span of
> one posted article presenting untrue information that you know is not true.
> 
I repeat the quote from you which you can read at the top of this post:
>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
>>> read it all!)
>> [...]
So now you say you read "most" of it. Even this statement is an
admission that there are parts you did not, and yet somehow *I* am the
liar? We are moving from the bizarre to the delusional here.
> 
>> It
>> makes me wonder why we have paid you the compliment of engaging you in
>> debate,
> 
> Gosh, I don't know. You must be stupid to do that. Yes?
> 
Apparently.
> 
>> since this is the most transparent evidence to date that what
>> comes back will be unrelated to the arguments presented.
> 
> That is untrue, Steve Holden, and since you can't quote that "evidence",
> since you evidently /have/ read my short article which you're responding
> to, knowing exactly what to snip, you know that what you're saying is
> untrue. I think this is your third lie in one posting. But who would
> care to count.
> 
Who indeed?
> 
> Cheers & hth.,
> 
That signature surely has to be irony.

Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 13 20:45:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 01:45:03 GMT
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b77559f$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:21:51 -0800, vsoler wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I would
> like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he needs to
> work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in Excel, that is,
> I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let the user choose.
> 
> I think this should be quite straightforward.

Python is multi-platform. Having the Windows file selection dialogs 
appear under Linux or Mac is anything but straightforward! The only 
general purpose (non-operating system specific) solution will require a 
GUI toolkit.

 
> How should I proceed?


>>> import tkFileDialog
>>> help(tkFileDialog)


See also:
http://docs.python.org/library/tkinter.html
http://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming

or google on "python display file dialog".


-- 
Steven


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 20:45:32 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:45:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <96255e38-b30b-42f2-9cd4-baa6a7b7eeb9@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 7:28?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * vsoler:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
> > would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
> > needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
> > Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
> > the user choose.
>
> > I think this should be quite straightforward.
>
> > How should I proceed?
>
> At least in Windows one easy way is to delegate that responsibility to the
> Windows shell. When a user drags a file onto your script, your script is run
> with the path to that dragged file as argument. Or it can even be multiple files.
>
> Otherwise, tkinter has, as I recall, a standard file chooser dialog.
>
> These "standard" dialogs are generally called "common dialogs".

specifically Alf was referring to tkFileDialog.askopenfilename().
Heres an example...


import Tkinter as tk
from tkFileDialog import askopenfilename

root = tk.Tk()

def get_files():
    path = askopenfilename(filetypes=[('TXT', '.txt')])
    if path:
        print path

tk.Button(root, text='1', font=('Wingdings', 12),
command=get_files).pack(padx=5, pady=5)

root.mainloop()



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 21:00:03 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:00:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<96255e38-b30b-42f2-9cd4-baa6a7b7eeb9@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <89f86e28-0ed3-4232-b489-db088d320658@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 2:45?am, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 7:28?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>
>
>
> > * vsoler:
>
> > > Hi,
>
> > > My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
> > > would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
> > > needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
> > > Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
> > > the user choose.
>
> > > I think this should be quite straightforward.
>
> > > How should I proceed?
>
> > At least in Windows one easy way is to delegate that responsibility to the
> > Windows shell. When a user drags a file onto your script, your script is run
> > with the path to that dragged file as argument. Or it can even be multiple files.
>
> > Otherwise, tkinter has, as I recall, a standard file chooser dialog.
>
> > These "standard" dialogs are generally called "common dialogs".
>
> specifically Alf was referring to tkFileDialog.askopenfilename().
> Heres an example...
>
> import Tkinter as tk
> from tkFileDialog import askopenfilename
>
> root = tk.Tk()
>
> def get_files():
> ? ? path = askopenfilename(filetypes=[('TXT', '.txt')])
> ? ? if path:
> ? ? ? ? print path
>
> tk.Button(root, text='1', font=('Wingdings', 12),
> command=get_files).pack(padx=5, pady=5)
>
> root.mainloop()

Excellent!!! Just what I needed!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 21:01:50 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:01:50 +0000
Subject: multiprocessing and games
In-Reply-To: <694A55DA-6557-486A-A0D5-B3B19C8B2D6F@bryant.edu>
References: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>
	<4B76E759.3010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<694A55DA-6557-486A-A0D5-B3B19C8B2D6F@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <4B77598E.4010800@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Brian Blais wrote:
> On Feb 13, 2010, at 12:54 , MRAB wrote:
> 
>> Brian Blais wrote:
>>> I've been thinking about implementing some simple games
> 
>> Forget about global variables, they're not worth it! :-)
>>
>> Think in terms of messages, sent via pipes, sockets or multiprocessing
>> queues.
>>
> 
> okay...let's make this concrete.  given your ideas, I have it working 
> for the first type of agent, namely one that is called like:
> 
> move=agent(board,player)
> 
> For a specific example, I'm using the simplest version of a game called 
> Nim.  You start with a number of sticks, players take turns taking 1, 2, 
> or 3 sticks, and you lose if you take the last stick.  Two agents for 
> this are:
> 
> # agent1.py - simple take 1 agent
> def agent(board,player):
>     return 1    
>     
> # agent2.py - perfect player
> def agent(board,player):
>     move=(board-1)%4
>     if move==0:
>         return 1
>     else:
>         return move
>         
> I run my simulator like (complete code below):
> 
> s=Sim('agent1','agent2')
> winner=s.run()
> 
> and it spawns two processes, passes messages between the sim and the 
> agents, and closes the agents nicely when the game is over.  I'm not 
> sure how I catch errors in the agents, especially accidental infinite loops.
> 
> Now the second type of agent is structured differently.  I'd like 
> something like:
> 
> # agent3.py - simple take 1 agent
> def agent(state):
>     
>     while True:
>         Take(1)
> 
> # agent4.py - perfect player
> def agent(state):
> 
>     N=state['board']  # get the current information
>     while True:
>         move=(N-1)%4        
>         if move==0:
>             Take(1)
>         else:
>             Take(move)
>             
> I tried to implement this in the second wrapper below, but I can't get 
> the agent function to "see" local functions in the wrapper.  I probably 
> need an import somewhere, but I haven't quite figured out the scoping 
> with multiprocessing, etc...
> 
> I include the code below.  The two message-passing wrappers are there, 
> and it works for the first two agents, but not the second two because of 
> scoping issues.
> 
> Is there a better way to be doing this?  Are there other examples like 
> this that I can look at to improve what I am doing?
> 
[snip]
I would try to have more separation between the agents and the
simulator.

The simulator would start the agents, something like this:

     def run_agent(agent_name, connection):
         agent_module = __import__(agent_name)
         agent_module.run(agent_name, connection)

...

     for agent_name in self.agent_files:
         parent, child = Pipe()
         connections.append(parent)
         proc = Process(target=run_agent, args=(agent_name, child))
         processes.append(proc)

The logic for an agent would be in its own module:

agent1.py
---------

     def get_move(board, player):
         return 1

     def run(agent_name, connection):
         end = False
         while not end:
             state = connection.recv()
             if state['done']:
                 break

             move = get_move(state['board'], state['player'])

             connection.send(move)

         print "%s done" % agent_name

         connection.close()

If I wanted the agents to share some logic (functions) then I would put
it (them) in a common module which the agents would import.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 21:10:28 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:10:28 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7kca$g7g$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7kca$g7g$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B775B94.5030406@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Howell:
>> This thread is interesting on many levels.  What is the core question
>> that is being examined here?
> 
> I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers 
> to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the reference can 
> be copied, and that the semantics of the language requires this and is 
> defined in terms of this. Steve Holden, D'Aprano and many others 
> maintain that there are no references, or that if there are then they're 
> only an implementation aspect, i.e. that conceiveable one could have an 
> implementation without them.
> 
> Regarding some other issues it seems to be a childish exercise in 
> flaming, a flame war, with claims of insanity, incompetence, lying 
> (that's actually from me, I reacted a bit strongly to faked quoting + 
> conclusions from that in a posting not appearing on Usenet but on the 
> Python mail list), etc. etc. ad nauseam, sprinkled with 
> misrepresentations etc. I don't know the point of that.
> 
It's a pity that no-one has gone far enough to trigger Godwin's Law...
;-)


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 21:10:49 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 03:10:49 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2520.1266111920.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2520.1266111920.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl7lvi$rc6$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>>> * Michael Sparks:
>>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
>>>> read it all!)
>>> [...]
>>>>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>>>>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>>>>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>>>>> details.
>>>> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
>>>>
>>>> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
>>>>
>>> I see we are still all out of step with you.
>> Why did you snip the short argument?
>>
> Because it's irrelevant and fallacious.
>>> If it's a fallacy then I'd
>>> like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.
>> Oh, you snipped it so that you didn't have to present it to readers.
>>
>> That's dishonest, Steve Holden.
>>
>> Requoting:
>>
>> <quote>
>>> Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
>>>
>>> Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
>>> is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
>>> (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
>>>
>>> There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
>>> which can be found here:
>>>
>>>
>> http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/
>>
>>> This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
>>>
>>> Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
>>> therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
>>> The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
>>> and pointers.
>> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in
>> Haskell.
>>
>> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions
>> about pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
>>
>> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell
>> must be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing
>> complete  --  is that acceptable to you?
>> <quote>
>>
> This, if it says anything at all, appears to say that any
> Turing-complete language has pointers in it, which is an absurdity.
>>> As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
>>> use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
>>> neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
>>> an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.
>> That's meaningless.
>>
>> But then so is maintaining that Python doesn't have references.
>>
>> And so is your argument applied to Pascal, just to mention that again.
>>
> *You* brought Pascal into this, not me.

Of course. And so? Do you think that the/your argument applies to Pascal?

Just for your information, it does not work for Pascal.

Or any language. It is a fallacy. It does not say anything about Python, or 
Pascal, or any language.


>>> You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
>>> misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
>>> you) paranoid.
>> On top of the multiple fallacies, dubious snipping of arguments,
>> statements that such arguments have not been presented (just after
>> snipping them), and general misleading insinuations and
>> misrepresentation, ad yet another bit of personal attack.
>>
>> Do you understand what that may say to readers about you, Steve Holden?
>>
> I'm happy to let readers draw their own conclusions about us both.

I guess you are. For it is invariably so that most readers recall by 
association, and a flood of flaming does yield an impression. As a technical 
argument it's a fallacy, but do you care? No.


>> Apparently it's all to defend an indefensible, idiotic position. But I
>> think you're doing it at least partially for the fun of harassing someone.
>>
> Not at all. You have accused me of bullying behavior, but  in truth you
> are the bully, and we know what happens when you give in to bullies,
> don't we?

After an uncountable number of flames of my person, many from you, I'm the 
bullied, or victim, so to speak; as such I'm not the bully.


>>> [...]
>>>>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, since
>>>>> that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>>>>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>>>>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>>>>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>>>>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>>>>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>>>>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>>>>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>>>>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>>>>> also have a need to have the last word)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
>>>> presented.
>>>>
>>>> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python,
>>>> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
>>>> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
>>>>
>>> And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it.
>> No, you can not quote any place I have said that I haven't read his
>> article. I did read most of it. So you are yet again within the span of
>> one posted article presenting untrue information that you know is not true.
>>
> I repeat the quote from you which you can read at the top of this post:
>>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
>>>> read it all!)
>>> [...]
> So now you say you read "most" of it.

I haven't said anything contradictory about that. If I had then you'd have 
quoted it. You don't quote anything, so you're out on your usual 
insinuate-things argumentation technique.


> Even this statement is an
> admission that there are parts you did not, and yet somehow *I* am the
> liar? We are moving from the bizarre to the delusional here.

I'm sorry that I had to point out your relating untrue information that you knew 
at the time was untrue.

That also applies to your snipping of the argument about Haskell, and subsequent 
asking for such arguments as if they hadn't been given  --  and snipped.

The poster explained at the start that he had some technically immaterial stuff 
at the end of his article. I don't know whether I reached that. But anyway, the 
article was just a series of fallacies like the one thinking an implementation 
in Haskell could prove anything about the language so implemented, all wrapped 
up in kilometers of rambling text.

Your attack of "bizarre" and "delusion" are the usual from Steve Holden.

You are injecting noise to bury an argument that you didn't like. You tried 
first snipping it from your response. Now you're trying the noise angle again.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 21:19:59 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:19:59 -0500
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002131819x4ba766dds245220760ef74ff1@mail.gmail.com>

You'll need acpi installed:

In [6]: import subprocess

In [7]: p = subprocess.Popen('acpi', stdout=subprocess.PIPE)

In [8]: output, errors = p.communicate()

In [9]: print output
------> print(output)
Battery 0: Full, 100%, rate information unavailable



On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Daniel Dalton <d.dalton at iinet.net.au>wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 05:26:02PM -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
> > It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
>
> Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 13 21:22:11 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 03:22:11 +0100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002131822w15f9bdc4t2bc2958fea2272ab@mail.gmail.com>

>> It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
>
> Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux.

I don't know about python modules but have a look at

/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info
/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state

You can parse the numbers you want from there.

HTH,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Feb 13 21:23:28 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:23:28 -0600
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
Message-ID: <4B775EA0.7080207@tim.thechases.com>

Daniel Dalton wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 05:26:02PM -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
>> It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
> 
> Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux. 

You should be able to read/poll the various files in

   /proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/*

for whatever battery information you need.  Each BAT* directory 
contains information about one of the batteries in the system 
(it's possible, albeit rare, to have more than one).  So you 
might have some script that runs every $INTERVAL that looks 
something like

   from glob import glob
   for fname in glob('/proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/*'):
     f = file(fname)
     for line in f:
       do_something(line)
     f.close()

On my Debian laptop (Gateway Solo 1200, OEM battery circa 2001), 
the contents look something like

tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat alarm
alarm:                   unsupported
tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat info
present:                 yes
design capacity:         4016 mAh
last full capacity:      4011 mAh
battery technology:      rechargeable
design voltage:          9600 mV
design capacity warning: 602 mAh
design capacity low:     401 mAh
capacity granularity 1:  201 mAh
capacity granularity 2:  3409 mAh
model number:            QT08
serial number:           SANYOQT08
battery type:            NiMH
OEM info:                SANYO
tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat state
present:                 yes
capacity state:          ok
charging state:          charged
present rate:            unknown
remaining capacity:      4011 mAh
present voltage:         9600 mV



-tkc




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 21:29:17 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 18:29:17 -0800
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
References: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl7n5t$s5i$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568 at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>
George Sakkis  <george.sakkis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I was talking to a colleague about one rather unexpected/undesired
>(though not buggy) behavior of some package we use. Although there is
>an easy fix (or at least workaround) on our end without any apparent
>side effect, he strongly suggested extending the relevant code by hard
>patching it and posting the patch upstream, hopefully to be accepted
>at some point in the future. In fact we maintain patches against
>specific versions of several packages that are applied automatically
>on each new build. The main argument is that this is the right thing
>to do, as opposed to an "ugly" workaround or a fragile monkey patch.
>On the other hand, I favor practicality over purity and my general
>rule of thumb is that "no patch" > "monkey patch" > "hard patch", at
>least for anything less than a (critical) bug fix.
>
>So I'm wondering if there is a consensus on when it's better to (hard)
>patch, monkey patch or just try to work around a third party package
>that doesn't do exactly what one would like. Does it have mainly to do
>with the reason for the patch (e.g. fixing a bug, modifying behavior,
>adding missing feature), the given package (size, complexity,
>maturity, developer responsiveness), something else or there are no
>general rules and one should decide on a case-by-case basis ?

There's a related option that I chose for SQLObject: extending by using
internal APIs.  Because SQLite doesn't work well with multiple writers
(or even multiple readers with one writer when queries take a long time),
we needed a retry mechanism when a query failed.  I originally tried
proxying the SQLite class, but that ran into problems partly related to
new-style classes grabbing magic methods directly from the class, and
subclassing and using the internal registration API turned out to be
easier.  The only change required in the existing code was to change the
connection string to "sqlite_retry:".

Then I ran into build problems because some machines were on SQLObject
0.10.x and others were on 0.11.x and the internal API changed between
those versions.  It was easily fixed by upgrading everything to 0.11.x,
but it's a reminder about the fragility of relying on internal APIs.

If that's not an option in your case, personally I'd prefer
monkey-patching because otherwise I need to check the package into my
repository.  Submitting a patch upstream would be responsible behavior.

Overall, I think that this is definitely an issue where heuristics work
much better than rules.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 21:41:42 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 18:41:42 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hl6ilk$f7h$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>
>My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
>didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
>references.

Assuming this is what you're referring to:

    Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.

Then you are simply, completely, totally, and absolutely wrong.  Period.
Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
programming language does not have pointers.  
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 21:43:20 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:43:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<96255e38-b30b-42f2-9cd4-baa6a7b7eeb9@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<89f86e28-0ed3-4232-b489-db088d320658@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2f487e21-8320-41ec-b4e3-cf51e7a198d4@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 8:00?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 2:45?am, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:

(..snip..)

> Excellent!!! Just what I needed!

For your case, since it seems you are writing a "console type"
application you may want to subdue the root window and show the user a
file dialog window *only*. You can do this by using "root.withdraw()"
to hide the root window. Just make sure to destroy the root window
after the users is finished choosing their file (or at some
appropriate time later) or else your program will not exit gracefully
at close time...!

Heres a way to wrap the whole enchilada into a reusable function, of
course many refinements could
be made but this is a simplistic version...

#-- start script --#
# works on python < 3.0
import Tkinter as tk
from tkFileDialog import askopenfilename

def showFileDialog():
    root = tk.Tk()
    root.withdraw()
    path = askopenfilename(filetypes=[('TXT', '.txt')])
    if path:
        print path
        # do something useful here...
    root.destroy()
    root.mainloop()


showFileDialog()
raw_input('press enter to quit...')
#-- end script --#


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 21:54:34 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 6:41?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <hl6ilk$f7... at news.eternal-september.org>,
> Alf P. Steinbach <al... at start.no> wrote:
>
>
>
> >My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
> >didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
> >references.
>
> Assuming this is what you're referring to:
>
> ? ? Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>
> Then you are simply, completely, totally, and absolutely wrong. ?Period.
> Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
> programming language does not have pointers. ?

I agree with your statement for a suitably narrow definition of the
words "pointer" and "have."


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 22:04:28 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:04:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl7kca$g7g$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2522.1266113426.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a61e7bea-adab-4cea-bd9e-940c189280df@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 6:10?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> > * Steve Howell:
> >> This thread is interesting on many levels. ?What is the core question
> >> that is being examined here?
>
> > I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers
> > to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the reference can
> > be copied, and that the semantics of the language requires this and is
> > defined in terms of this. Steve Holden, D'Aprano and many others
> > maintain that there are no references, or that if there are then they're
> > only an implementation aspect, i.e. that conceiveable one could have an
> > implementation without them.
>
> > Regarding some other issues it seems to be a childish exercise in
> > flaming, a flame war, with claims of insanity, incompetence, lying
> > (that's actually from me, I reacted a bit strongly to faked quoting +
> > conclusions from that in a posting not appearing on Usenet but on the
> > Python mail list), etc. etc. ad nauseam, sprinkled with
> > misrepresentations etc. I don't know the point of that.
>
> It's a pity that no-one has gone far enough to trigger Godwin's Law...
> ;-)

Godwin's Law need not be invoked here.  The essential question is
relevant and worthy of discussion, and most posters have presented
intelligent, nuanced arguments even amidst all the needless flaming.
It is actually a subtle point that I think people disagree on,
whatever the extraneous personal baggage.


From chyavana at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 22:19:02 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:19:02 +0800
Subject: Sorting a list of lists
In-Reply-To: <4B759ED1.3090507@optimum.net>
References: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com> <4B759ED1.3090507@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4B776BA6.8060108@gmail.com>

MRAB wrote:

> You'd have to post an example of that, but you could try deleting some
> of the entries before sorting so see whether you can still reproduce the
> problem with a smaller list.

John Posner wrote:
> Please cut-and-paste the exact error message (or other evidence of 
> "failure") into a message.

Thank you both. It appears that the problem was in the way the data were 
being read in from a file, than in the sorting itself. Once I fixed 
that, the results are as expected.

Chandra


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 22:44:26 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:44:26 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl7rf4$d67$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Aahz:
> In article <hl6ilk$f7h$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
> Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>> My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
>> didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
>> references.
> 
> Assuming this is what you're referring to:
> 
>     Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> Then you are simply, completely, totally, and absolutely wrong.  Period.
> Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
> programming language does not have pointers.  

The next paragraph was about the meaning of "pointer" in that first paragraph, 
referring to the Java language specification for the particular meaning here, 
namely a reference. Note: I did not refer to CPython, C, Pascal or whatever (but 
you mention CPython) for a meaning of "pointer". Instead I referred to the Java 
language specification for that meaning, where it's pretty clear: reference.

So if you don't like the terminology, you can rephrase with perhaps more 
palatable terms:

   Python uses pass by sharing.
   References to objects are copied, the objects themselves are not copied.
   See <url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_sharing>

If you go to that URL, which isn't auhoritative but good enough, you find that

   "identical semantics in other languages such as Java and Visual Basic"

Hence, your point is only a matter of terminology. The semantics /can/ be 
described using the term "pointer" (or for that matter the term "thingamajic"), 
when that term is suitably defined, and it /is/ described using that word for 
some languages. The language doesn't matter for the concept of pass by sharing.

Hence, the terminological issue doesn't invalidate the description, as long as 
the terminology is clearly defined, as I did with ref to the Java lang spec.

As you can see proper terminology reduces the size of explanation considerably, 
but as I see it that's not a big deal as long as the description is still 
/reasonably/ short. It does become a concern when the description runs to many 
pages of text. A simple thing should IMHO be simply described.

But I think, as I've already stated several times up-thread, that "pointer" is a 
term best avoided for explanations within the Python community, even with a 
reference to a particular definition/usage, making the more verbose version in 
terms of "references" preferable for Python  --  don't you agree?


Cheers,

- Alf



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 13 22:53:42 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 03:53:42 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:34 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> On Feb 13, 6:41?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> > Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
> > programming language does not have pointers. ?
>
> I agree with your statement for a suitably narrow definition of the
> words "pointer" and "have."


"Suitably narrow" is not that narrow. By no stretch of the imagination 
can one say that Python has a built-in pointer type analogous to pointers 
in (say) Pascal or C -- you can't usefully get the address of a variable 
(although the CPython implementation leaks the address of objects, it 
does so in a way that is safe and useless for everything but a label). 
There is no equivalent to (say) the Pascal program:

program main(input, output);
  var
    x: integer;
    ptr: ^integer;

begin
  x := 1;
  ptr := @x;
  ptr^ := ptr^ + 1;
  writeln(x);
end.

For a suitably wide definition of "pointer", then Python does have 
pointers:

data = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc', 'ddd', 'eee']
i = data.index('bbb')
print data[i]
i += 1
data[i] = 'zzz'


but I trust that we all agree that describing the integer offset i above 
as a "pointer" is a reductio ad absurdum.


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb 13 22:56:03 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:56:03 -0800
Subject: Hashing in python
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x3a14cvxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Vish <vahuja4 at gmail.com> writes:
> I need to hash 3d coordinates to a grid which has been divided into
> 4*4*4 squares. Using python, I thought of a simple way as follows:

Use the built-in hash function:

    >>> p = (1, 2, 3)
    >>> print hash(p)
    2528502973977326415

You can of course mod that by the table size:

    >>> print hash(p) % (4*4*4)
    15


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 23:11:06 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:11:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 7:53?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:34 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 6:41?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> > > Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
> > > programming language does not have pointers. ?
>
> > I agree with your statement for a suitably narrow definition of the
> > words "pointer" and "have."
>
> "Suitably narrow" is not that narrow. By no stretch of the imagination
> can one say that Python has a built-in pointer type analogous to pointers
> in (say) Pascal or C -- you can't usefully get the address of a variable
> (although the CPython implementation leaks the address of objects, it
> does so in a way that is safe and useless for everything but a label).
> There is no equivalent to (say) the Pascal program:
>
> program main(input, output);
> ? var
> ? ? x: integer;
> ? ? ptr: ^integer;
>
> begin
> ? x := 1;
> ? ptr := @x;
> ? ptr^ := ptr^ + 1;
> ? writeln(x);
> end.
>
> For a suitably wide definition of "pointer", then Python does have
> pointers:
>
> data = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc', 'ddd', 'eee']
> i = data.index('bbb')
> print data[i]
> i += 1
> data[i] = 'zzz'
>
> but I trust that we all agree that describing the integer offset i above
> as a "pointer" is a reductio ad absurdum.
>

For a suitably wide definition of pointers CPython does indeed have
pointers, and your example is only a weaker case of that truth.  There
is no reductio adsurbum.  If I argued that CPython had curly braced
syntax that would be absurd, since it is so concretely wrong.
Pointers are a more abstact concept.


From sridharr at activestate.com  Sat Feb 13 23:16:59 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:16:59 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.5.5.7 is now available
In-Reply-To: <hl5r66$mh1$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1E441CA2-F197-4F5B-B4F5-A5FE2E3D7882@activestate.com>
	<hl5r66$mh1$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1D5C19A6-A80E-4952-9099-120C394618E0@activestate.com>


On 2010-02-13, at 1:25 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:22:49 -0800, Sridhar Ratnakumar
> <sridharr at activestate.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.5.5.7 is now available for
>> download from:
>> 
>>    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/
>> 
> 	This seems to be the first Windows installer I recall that can't
> "update" over an earlier 2.5.x version... It want's me to wipe out
> (uninstall) my existing base before it will allow for installation (bad
> enough it need admin privileges -- I'm going to be dead at work the next
> time they "refresh" my desktop machine as they no longer allow users to
> have local admin rights)

This is probably due to http://firefly.activestate.com/shanec/activepython/ticket/11 where the MSI product code for 64-bit installer was changed to be different from the 32-bit one. Specifically the product codes used are:

<=2.5.4.4: "a2e24bd9-085b-410f-aad0-5eb5fa5d73d2" 

>=2.5.4.6 32-bit: "a2e24bd9-085b-410f-aad0-5eb5fa5d73d2", 
>=2.5.4.5 64-bit: "64e24bd9-085b-410f-aad0-5eb5fa5d73d2", 

Consequently 64-bit installers for 2.X will have different MSI product code from 2.5.4.6 onwards. 

Was your "update" issue happening only with the 64-bit installer of 2.5.5.7?

-srid
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 14 00:13:33 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 05:13:33 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:11:06 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> For a suitably wide definition of pointers CPython does indeed have
> pointers, and your example is only a weaker case of that truth.  There
> is no reductio adsurbum.  If I argued that CPython had curly braced
> syntax that would be absurd, since it is so concretely wrong. Pointers
> are a more abstact concept.

I would argue that your examples are equivalent.

The suitably wide definition of pointers that allows you to argue that 
Python has pointers is an implementation detail, just as the 
implementation detail that the Python tokenizer uses INDENT and DEDENT 
tokens. An INDENT token is just another way of spelling { and DEDENT is 
just another way of spelling }, so therefore Python has curly bracket 
syntax.

Do I believe this argument is valid? No, of course not, I think it does 
so much violence to the concepts of curly brackets and syntax as to be 
absurd. Just as I think the only way to justify claiming that Python has 
pointers is to do so much violence to the concept of pointer and to 
Python's object model as to also be absurd.

That's not to say that the general concept of references (as in "to refer 
to") isn't valuable when discussing Python. If you want to say that 
(e.g.) following 

x = 1

the name "x" refers to (or even points to!) the object 1, my objections 
will be mild or non-existent. In that sense, it's probably impossible to 
program without some sort of "references": the computer manipulates 
variables or objects directly, while we manipulate characters in source 
code. The only way to write a program is to use some abstract thing (a 
name, an offset, whatever) that refers, in some fashion, to a collection 
of bits in the computer's memory. But to go from that to the idea that 
(say) x is a pointer does so much violence to the concept of pointer and 
has so much room for confusion that it is actively harmful.



-- 
Steven


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 00:33:50 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 9:13?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:11:06 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > For a suitably wide definition of pointers CPython does indeed have
> > pointers, and your example is only a weaker case of that truth. ?There
> > is no reductio adsurbum. ?If I argued that CPython had curly braced
> > syntax that would be absurd, since it is so concretely wrong. Pointers
> > are a more abstact concept.
>
> I would argue that your examples are equivalent.
>
> The suitably wide definition of pointers that allows you to argue that
> Python has pointers is an implementation detail, just as the
> implementation detail that the Python tokenizer uses INDENT and DEDENT
> tokens. An INDENT token is just another way of spelling { and DEDENT is
> just another way of spelling }, so therefore Python has curly bracket
> syntax.
>

You seem to be missing the point that "curly braces" is a concrete
term that very specifically applies to spelling.


> Do I believe this argument is valid? No, of course not, I think it does
> so much violence to the concepts of curly brackets and syntax as to be
> absurd. Just as I think the only way to justify claiming that Python has
> pointers is to do so much violence to the concept of pointer and to
> Python's object model as to also be absurd.
>
> That's not to say that the general concept of references (as in "to refer
> to") isn't valuable when discussing Python. If you want to say that
> (e.g.) following
>
> x = 1
>
> the name "x" refers to (or even points to!) the object 1, my objections
> will be mild or non-existent. In that sense, it's probably impossible to
> program without some sort of "references": the computer manipulates
> variables or objects directly, while we manipulate characters in source
> code. The only way to write a program is to use some abstract thing (a
> name, an offset, whatever) that refers, in some fashion, to a collection
> of bits in the computer's memory. But to go from that to the idea that
> (say) x is a pointer does so much violence to the concept of pointer and
> has so much room for confusion that it is actively harmful.
>

I agree that "reference" is a much better term than "pointer.". It has
the right amount of generalness in my opinion. I think "violence" is a
bit overstated, but your bigger point is well taken and it seems like
"reference" is useful middle ground between pure cpython language and
misrepresentative analogy.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Feb 14 01:12:06 2010
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:12:06 +1100
Subject: iglob performance no better than glob
In-Reply-To: <449a19de-42f7-4ae3-8099-99c27572adc8@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <449a19de-42f7-4ae3-8099-99c27572adc8@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100214061206.GA31131@cskk.homeip.net>

On 31Jan2010 16:23, Kyp <kyp at stsci.edu> wrote:
| On Jan 31, 2:44?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
| > Kyp wrote:
| > > I have a dir with a large # of files that I need to perform operations
| > > on, but only needing to access a subset of the files, i.e. the first
| > > 100 files.
| > > Using glob is very slow, so I ran across iglob, which returns an
| > > iterator, which seemed just like what I wanted. I could iterate over
| > > the files that I wanted, not having to read the entire dir.
[...]
| > > So the iglob was faster, but accessing the first file took about the
| > > same time as glob.glob.
| >
| > > Here's some code to compare glob vs. iglob performance, ?it outputs
| > > the time before/after a glob.iglob('*.*') files.next() sequence and a
| > > glob.glob('*.*') sequence.
| >
| > > #!/usr/bin/env python
| >
| > > import glob,time
| > > print '\nTest of glob.iglob'
| > > print 'before ? ? ? iglob:', time.asctime()
| > > files = glob.iglob('*.*')
| > > print 'after ? ? ? ?iglob:',time.asctime()
| > > print files.next()
| > > print 'after files.next():', time.asctime()
| >
| > > print '\nTest of glob.glob'
| > > print 'before ? ? ? ?glob:', time.asctime()
| > > files = glob.glob('*.*')
| > > print 'after ? ? ? ? glob:',time.asctime()
| >
| > > Here are the results:
| >
| > > Test of glob.iglob
| > > before ? ? ? iglob: Sun Jan 31 11:09:08 2010
| > > after ? ? ? ?iglob: Sun Jan 31 11:09:08 2010
| > > foo.bar
| > > after files.next(): Sun Jan 31 11:09:59 2010
| >
| > > Test of glob.glob
| > > before ? ? ? ?glob: Sun Jan 31 11:09:59 2010
| > > after ? ? ? ? glob: Sun Jan 31 11:10:51 2010
| >
| > > The results are about the same for the 2 approaches, both took about
| > > 51 seconds. Am I doing something wrong with iglob?
| >
| > No, but iglob() being lazy is pointless in your case because it uses
| > os.listdir() and fnmatch.filter() underneath which both read the whole
| > directory before returning anything.
| >
| > > Is there a way to get the first X # of files from a dir with lots of
| > > files, that does not take a long time to run?
| >
| > Here's my attempt. [...open directory and read native format...]

I'd be inclined first to time os.listdir('.') versus glob.lgo('*.*').

Glob routines tend to lstat() every matching name to ensure the path
exists. That's very slow. If you just do os.listdir() and choose your
100 nmaes, you only need to stat (or just try to open) them.

So time glob.glob("*.*") versus os.listdir(".") first.

Generally, with a large directory, stat time will change performance
immensely.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

Usenet is essentially a HUGE group of people passing notes in class. --R. Kadel


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 14 02:21:44 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 07:21:44 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> You seem to be missing the point that "curly braces" is a concrete
> term that very specifically applies to spelling.

And you seem to be missing the point that "pointer" is also a concrete 
term that very specifically applies to, well, pointers.

[...]
> I agree that "reference" is a much better term than "pointer.". It has
> the right amount of generalness in my opinion. I think "violence" is a
> bit overstated, but your bigger point is well taken and it seems like
> "reference" is useful middle ground between pure cpython language and
> misrepresentative analogy.

But reference also has a concrete meaning: C++ has a type explicitly 
called "reference":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C++)

And of course call-by-reference (or pass-by-reference) has a specific, 
technical meaning.



-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 14 02:40:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:40:50 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl89ab$77c$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> 
>> You seem to be missing the point that "curly braces" is a concrete
>> term that very specifically applies to spelling.
> 
> And you seem to be missing the point that "pointer" is also a concrete 
> term that very specifically applies to, well, pointers.
> 
> [...]
>> I agree that "reference" is a much better term than "pointer.". It has
>> the right amount of generalness in my opinion. I think "violence" is a
>> bit overstated, but your bigger point is well taken and it seems like
>> "reference" is useful middle ground between pure cpython language and
>> misrepresentative analogy.
> 
> But reference also has a concrete meaning: C++ has a type explicitly 
> called "reference":
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C++)
> 
> And of course call-by-reference (or pass-by-reference) has a specific, 
> technical meaning.

Hm.

Consider your argument about "reference" being possible to confuse with "pass by 
reference" in the light of "pass by name", used by Algol, <url: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen%27s_Device>.

Oops, to consistently remove all possible ambiguity the term "name" can't be 
used about formal arguments.

I think, even though "pass by name" is much less well known than "pass by 
reference", this indicates that it's not practically possible to remove all 
possible ambiguity.

I think some Common Sense(TM) must in any case be assumed, and applied.


Cheers,

- Alf


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 02:45:47 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 11:21?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > You seem to be missing the point that "curly braces" is a concrete
> > term that very specifically applies to spelling.
>
> And you seem to be missing the point that "pointer" is also a concrete
> term that very specifically applies to, well, pointers.
>

The term "pointer" is very abstract.  Please give me a concrete
definition of a pointer.

A curly brace is one of these: { }

Pretty concrete, I hope.

> [...]
>
> > I agree that "reference" is a much better term than "pointer.". It has
> > the right amount of generalness in my opinion. I think "violence" is a
> > bit overstated, but your bigger point is well taken and it seems like
> > "reference" is useful middle ground between pure cpython language and
> > misrepresentative analogy.
>
> But reference also has a concrete meaning: C++ has a type explicitly
> called "reference":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C++)
>

Of course, "reference" has concrete meanings in specific contexts.
But I can refer you to much more general and abstract uses of the term
"reference."  Do you want references?   I will be happy to refer you
to appropriate references.


> And of course call-by-reference (or pass-by-reference) has a specific,
> technical meaning.
>

Which is what?



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 03:15:02 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:15:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <b873a33f-1fb4-4cb0-abf5-0d6547d4d826@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 6:16?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I
> understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native
> English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are sometimes
> ambiguous in English.
>
> While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a
> direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a
> paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us now.)
>
> Unfortunately, this means that in informal discussions like this it is
> sometimes difficult to distinguish a direct quote from a paraphrase,
> except by context. In context, as a native speaker, I can assure you that
> Stephen Hansen's use of quotation marks is a paraphrase and not meant to
> be read as a direct quote.

As another native speaker of English, I can assure Alf that using
quotation marks in a paraphrase in written English is actually
strictly admonished against in some English speaking countries.  At
least according to my English teachers.  To the extent that many
people on the Internet don't speak English natively, I think the most
conservative and reasonable convention applies--use quotes to quote
directly; if you're not quoting directly, omit quotes and make clear
the fact that you are paraphrasing.

Which isn't to say we don't all make mistakes.

I have no idea about what Stephen Hanson said.  Most misattributions
are actually paraphrases, whether they be in quotes or not.



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 03:21:03 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:21:03 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002140021i14f45531r3c4414bdb7a24b15@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Michael Sparks <sparks.m at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Alf,
>
>
> On Feb 12, 8:22 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> > Thanks for the effort at non-flaming discussion, it *is*
> > appreciated.
>
> I would appreciate it if you tried to be non-flaming yourself,
> since you can see I am not flaming you.
>

I'm currently in a self-imposed exile from commenting on any particular
details of the technical issue in this thread as I believe it futile, but I
have to say: wow, kudos to you for putting SO much into saying what I tried
to say, and doing so better then I was able to.

Kudos. Times two.

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 03:50:04 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:50:04 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <b873a33f-1fb4-4cb0-abf5-0d6547d4d826@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<b873a33f-1fb4-4cb0-abf5-0d6547d4d826@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002140050j4dddcc3dkdffc1df523ee7bf2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Feb 10, 6:16 am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I
> > understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native
> > English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are sometimes
> > ambiguous in English.
> >
> > While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a
> > direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a
> > paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us
> now.)
> >
> > Unfortunately, this means that in informal discussions like this it is
> > sometimes difficult to distinguish a direct quote from a paraphrase,
> > except by context. In context, as a native speaker, I can assure you that
> > Stephen Hansen's use of quotation marks is a paraphrase and not meant to
> > be read as a direct quote.
>
> As another native speaker of English, I can assure Alf that using
> quotation marks in a paraphrase in written English is actually
> strictly admonished against in some English speaking countries.  At
> least according to my English teachers.  To the extent that many
> people on the Internet don't speak English natively, I think the most
> conservative and reasonable convention applies--use quotes to quote
> directly; if you're not quoting directly, omit quotes and make clear
> the fact that you are paraphrasing.
>
> Which isn't to say we don't all make mistakes.
>
> I have no idea about what Stephen Hanson said.  Most misattributions
> are actually paraphrases, whether they be in quotes or not.



Well, no, I have to stand in my defense at this point. Given the context of
the communication medium, an actual "quote"  has IMHO a clearly defined
context. It is lines, unchanged and unedited, prepended with a certain
appropriate set of characters, and clearly cited with some variation of
something like "On <date>, Someone said:"

A quote, in context, is an attempt to directly reference another
individual's words as they spoke them.

Any alteration of such words, any adjustment of such words to your own end,
is dishonest.

What I did was say something like this paragraph (with no quote characters
before it):

   And then you hand-waved my arguments with a response of, "this that blah
bleh"

Minus the indention.

There was IMHO, NO misattribution, NO reasonable assumption that I specified
actual or explicit words of Alf or anyone else. There MAY be an argument
someone can make claiming my statement wasn't clear, but to declare it is a
deliberate /lie/ is another thing entirely.

There is a difference between using quote marks and making an actual
quotation-- a quotation requires a citation-- and in informal discourse use
of quote marks to represent clear paraphrasing of the interpretation of
position is valid, imho. In a formal paper or thesis, I'd use a different
format. But this is not formal. In context that statement can not possibly
be reasonable considered an actual quotation, even with quote marks.

And I'm responding because: yes, I'm finding this "You are a liar." response
particularly personally offensive. I should get over it. I'm just used to
people disagreeing with me. Dismissing me as a liar is something new.

--S
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From paul at subsignal.org  Sun Feb 14 04:16:18 2010
From: paul at subsignal.org (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Paul_K=F6lle?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:16:18 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
Message-ID: <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>

Am 13.02.2010 10:50, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a module/plugin/intra-process-communication/hook system
> for python. Maybe someone here could point me to some project I missed
> or might have some good ideas if I end up implementing it myself.
>
> Most systems I have found are "one to many" communications but I would
> like "many to many", to clarify what I mean an *example* use-case:
>
>          Lets say you program a wiki and like to allow different kind of
>          authentications. So you create two plugins (for example one for
>          OpenID and one for Shibboleth).
>
>          Some time later you feel like reinventing the wheel again and
>          you program a blog. Again you like to allow different ways of
>          authentication and you already wrote plugins for exactly the
>          same for your wiki, right?
>
> With most systems now some trouble begins - the blog software would need
> to have the interface/extention-points/however-you-name-it that the wiki
> software defined.
>
> The plugins you wrote probably import them from the wiki module directly
> which means your blog would depend on the wiki. (?!) So where to put the
> interface/[...] definition that is imported by those plugins? Create a
> package/module just containing the interface? This really get
> troublesome if different people wrote the wiki, the blog and another
> third one a plugin.
If you are talking about code sharing you can move the common code out 
of your applications in a seperate namespace. If you follow the model 
trac is using you would install a module/package/egg with the basic 
functionality of the pluginsystem (i.e. what's in core.py and env.py + 
logging and whatever you think is necessary).
All shared code like your auth-plugins would go in a common plugin 
directory to which you can refer via PYTHONPATH.

Another common technique is chaining of WSGI middleware..., check out 
pythonpaste.org.

Then there is SOA where functionality is shared via RPC/webservices and 
wsdl/uddi. But my feeling is this is mostly used in "Enterprise" 
applications and is best used in Java/.NET where you already have 
libraries doing all the XML stuff.

hth
  Paul






From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 14 04:25:14 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:25:14 +0100
Subject: Hashing in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2512.1266108436.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2512.1266108436.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B77C17A.1020306@v.loewis.de>

> floor(x) returns an integer

Why do you say that? Assuming you are talking about math.floor, it works
differently for me:

py> math.floor(10.0/3)
3.0

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 14 04:30:36 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:30:36 +0100
Subject: Hashing in python
In-Reply-To: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B77C2BC.5080201@v.loewis.de>

> CELL_SIZE = 4
> 
> def key(point):
> 
>     return (
>         int((floor(point[0]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
>         int((floor(point[1]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
>         int((floor(point[2]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE)
>     )
> 
> 
> Since python allows keys to be tuples, I think that this should work.
> Is there a better (more efficient) way to do it?

You don't say why you want to do hashing in the first place. If it is to
access elements in a lookup table, and you are now using a dictionary,
I'd suggest to replace that with a list. For 4x4x4 elements, you could
either do

table[int(point[0]/CELL_SIZE)][int(point[1]/CELL_SIZE)][int(point[2]/CELL_SIZE)]

(i.e. have nested lists), or you allocate a list of 64 elements, and use

def key(point):
  return 16*int(point[0]/CELL_SIZE) + 4*int(point[1]/CELL_SIZE) +\
            int(point[2]/CELL_SIZE)

table[key(point)]

You could even use that key function as a key to a dictionary, if you
can't use lists for some reason.

Regards,
Martin


From karsten.goen at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 14 04:33:54 2010
From: karsten.goen at googlemail.com (Karsten Goen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:33:54 +0100
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
Message-ID: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>

hey all,
I got a problem with floats and calculations. I made an mini-application
where you get random questions with some science calculations in it
So the user can type in his result with the values given by random creation.
And the user value is compared against the computer value... the problem is
that the user input is only 2 numbers behind the '.' so like 1.42, 1.75

here is the example:
http://dpaste.com/hold/158698/

without decimal it would be very inaccurate. decimal is very accurate when I
have to compare d with users calculations from a,b,c,var.
But when I ask the user what is "a" the result gets inaccurate when
calculating with the same values given before (b,c,d,var).

Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for
every possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible
for a computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and
slower.

thx in advance

Karsten
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From stefan-usenet at bytereef.org  Sun Feb 14 05:29:56 2010
From: stefan-usenet at bytereef.org (Stefan Krah)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:29:56 +0100
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
In-Reply-To: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>

Karsten Goen <karsten.goen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> hey all,
> I got a problem with floats and calculations. I made an mini-application where
> you get random questions with some science calculations in it
> So the user can type in his result with the values given by random creation.
> And the user value is compared against the computer value... the problem is
> that the user input is only 2 numbers behind the '.' so like 1.42, 1.75
> 
> here is the example:
> http://dpaste.com/hold/158698/
> 
> without decimal it would be very inaccurate. decimal is very accurate when I
> have to compare d with users calculations from a,b,c,var.
> But when I ask the user what is "a" the result gets inaccurate when calculating
> with the same values given before (b,c,d,var).
> 
> Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for every
> possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible for a
> computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and slower.

d = (a * b)/ (c * var)
d = Decimal(d).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))

By quantizing d, the above equality does not hold any longer. You've got
to drop that line (your calculator doesn't quantize either).


Stefan Krah




From karsten.goen at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 14 05:50:49 2010
From: karsten.goen at googlemail.com (Karsten Goen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:50:49 +0100
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
In-Reply-To: <20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>
Message-ID: <bc38bb4a1002140250h5e138994o147c612e7b641698@mail.gmail.com>

also this doesn't help, there are still errors in the accuracy. Isn't there
a perfect way to do such calculations?

Karsten Goen <karsten.goen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > hey all,
> > I got a problem with floats and calculations. I made an mini-application
> where
> > you get random questions with some science calculations in it
> > So the user can type in his result with the values given by random
> creation.
> > And the user value is compared against the computer value... the problem
> is
> > that the user input is only 2 numbers behind the '.' so like 1.42, 1.75
> >
> > here is the example:
> > http://dpaste.com/hold/158698/
> >
> > without decimal it would be very inaccurate. decimal is very accurate
> when I
> > have to compare d with users calculations from a,b,c,var.
> > But when I ask the user what is "a" the result gets inaccurate when
> calculating
> > with the same values given before (b,c,d,var).
> >
> > Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for
> every
> > possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible for
> a
> > computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and
> slower.
>
> d = (a * b)/ (c * var)
> d = Decimal(d).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
>
> By quantizing d, the above equality does not hold any longer. You've got
> to drop that line (your calculator doesn't quantize either).
>
>
> Stefan Krah
>
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From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Sun Feb 14 06:28:59 2010
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (Laszlo Nagy)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:28:59 +0100
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
	<7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4B77DE7B.1020001@shopzeus.com>

2010.02.13. 17:40 keltez?ssel, Diez B. Roggisch ?rta:
> Am 13.02.10 17:18, schrieb Anssi Saari:
>> Nobody<nobody at nowhere.com>  writes:
>>
>>> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 
>>> 64-bit CPU
>>> and OS.
>>
>> That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
>> allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
>> Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.
>
> No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit 
> through paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.
PAE is for the kernel. Yes, you can use much more memory with 32 bit 
kernel + PAE. But the ~3G per 32bit process limit still applies. It is 
because the PAE extension allows the kernel to distribute the same 
virtual address ranges between different processes, but map them to 
different physical memory addresses. However, the process that was 
compiled and is running in 32 bit mode, cannot access more than ~3GB 
simply because it is not able to address more memory locations with 32 
bit addresses. (minus ~1G is because it needs virtual addresses for I/O 
devices as well, and those addresses cannot be mapped to physical memory).

So with any Python that is running in 32 bit mode, you cannot use more 
than ~3G memory. But you can start many instances of those programs and 
use 2G for each process.

    L



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Feb 14 06:41:45 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:41:45 +0000
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
In-Reply-To: <bc38bb4a1002140250h5e138994o147c612e7b641698@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>	<20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>
	<bc38bb4a1002140250h5e138994o147c612e7b641698@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl8ngu$rtv$1@ger.gmane.org>

[fix top posting]
> Karsten Goen <karsten.goen at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> hey all,
>>> I got a problem with floats and calculations. I made an mini-application
>> where
>>> you get random questions with some science calculations in it
>>> So the user can type in his result with the values given by random
>> creation.
>>> And the user value is compared against the computer value... the problem
>> is
>>> that the user input is only 2 numbers behind the '.' so like 1.42, 1.75
>>>
>>> here is the example:
>>> http://dpaste.com/hold/158698/
>>>
>>> without decimal it would be very inaccurate. decimal is very accurate
>> when I
>>> have to compare d with users calculations from a,b,c,var.
>>> But when I ask the user what is "a" the result gets inaccurate when
>> calculating
>>> with the same values given before (b,c,d,var).
>>>
>>> Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for
>> every
>>> possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible for
>> a
>>> computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and
>> slower.
>>
>> d = (a * b)/ (c * var)
>> d = Decimal(d).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
>>
>> By quantizing d, the above equality does not hold any longer. You've got
>> to drop that line (your calculator doesn't quantize either).
>>
>>
>> Stefan Krah
>>
> 

Karsten Goen wrote:
 > also this doesn't help, there are still errors in the accuracy. Isn't 
there
 > a perfect way to do such calculations?
 >

Please read the following and see if it helps.  Also search the python 
users mailing list for something like floating point accuracy, you'll 
get plenty of hits.

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/floatingpoint.html

Regards.

Mark Lawrence



From stefan-usenet at bytereef.org  Sun Feb 14 06:42:34 2010
From: stefan-usenet at bytereef.org (Stefan Krah)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:42:34 +0100
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
In-Reply-To: <bc38bb4a1002140247x7f785dffxe236f87ac316c9d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>
	<bc38bb4a1002140247x7f785dffxe236f87ac316c9d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100214114234.GA7498@yoda.bytereef.org>

Karsten Goen <karsten.goen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> also this doesn't help, there are still errors in the accuracy. Isn't there a
> perfect way to do such calculations?

The hint I gave you removes the most egregious error in your program.
You still have to quantize the result of (c*var*d) / b) if you want
it to match a. If I adapt your program, I don't find any non-matching
numbers.

for i in range(100000):
    # set random numbers
    a = Decimal(str(random.uniform(0.1,123))).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
    b = Decimal(str(random.uniform(20.1,3000))).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
    c = Decimal(str(random.uniform(100, 5000))).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
    var = Decimal('8.314').quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
    # calc d
    d = (a * b)/ (c * var)
    if ((c*var*d) / b).quantize(Decimal('0.01')) != a:
        print a, (c*var*d) / b


Note that for perfect accuracy you should use the fraction module.


Stefan Krah




From abenthy at asylum.com  Sun Feb 14 06:52:53 2010
From: abenthy at asylum.com (abent)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 03:52:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to solve an LCP (linear complementarity problem) in python ?
Message-ID: <bdda4cc0-7334-4690-8469-e1dbce70a861@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

Is there a good library to numericly solve an LCP in python ?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_complementarity_problem)

An example would be very helpful because most libraries seem to only
solve QP's.
I need this for computing 2d contact forces in a rigid body
simulation.


From dino at phidev.org  Sun Feb 14 07:05:06 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:05:06 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>  <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1266149106.4299.79.camel@brain>

On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 10:16 +0100, Paul K?lle wrote: 
> Am 13.02.2010 10:50, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm looking for a module/plugin/intra-process-communication/hook system
> > for python. Maybe someone here could point me to some project I missed
> > or might have some good ideas if I end up implementing it myself.
> >
> > [...]
> > 
> > The plugins you wrote probably import them from the wiki module directly
> > which means your blog would depend on the wiki. (?!) So where to put the
> > interface/[...] definition that is imported by those plugins? Create a
> > package/module just containing the interface? This really get
> > troublesome if different people wrote the wiki, the blog and another
> > third one a plugin.

> If you are talking about code sharing you can move the common code out 
> of your applications in a seperate namespace. If you follow the model 
> trac is using you would install a module/package/egg with the basic 
> functionality of the pluginsystem (i.e. what's in core.py and env.py + 
> logging and whatever you think is necessary).

> All shared code like your auth-plugins would go in a common plugin 
> directory to which you can refer via PYTHONPATH.

You're right, its about code sharing/reusing - should have said it more
clearly. What I am looking for is the pluginsystem that makes this easy.
Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've seen)
approach:

You need to define something like:
|
| class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
|
in your blog software.

Now within the open_id_login_plugin:
| from blog import IAuthPlugin
|
| class OpenIdPlugin(object):
|     implements(IAuthPlugin)
|

So the OpenIdPlugin is specific for the blog and hardly sharable.
Actually it is but it depends on the blog as it gets imported.

This might be thought of as an implementation detail but its seems
pretty common.


> Another common technique is chaining of WSGI middleware..., check out 
> pythonpaste.org.

WSGI middleware just doesn't do it in some situations. Also it only
works out for web-based applications (my example was one but my question
was more general).


Thanks for your answer,
Florian



-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From moky.math at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 07:16:28 2010
From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent Claessens)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:16:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: LaTeX parser and pstricks generator in python
Message-ID: <fe0d0e32-b1ee-4249-bd2f-e5d5e523a43c@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hi all.

I just put online a first version of two tools that combine LaTeX and
python.

The first one, phystricks[1], is a python module intended to generate
pstricks code. The main features are
* you don't have to know pstricks (but you need to have some basics in
python)
* you have python instead of LaTeX as backend programming language
* the bounding box is automatically computed
* thanks to Sage[5], you have a direct access to the derivative of
functions (and much more). Thus, for example, tangent and normal
vectors to any (cartesian/polar/parametric) plots are easy to draw.
* eps export is possible in order to be more pdfLaTeX friendly.

The documentation[3] contains many examples of figures created with
phystricks. Download the file phystricks-doc.pdf[4]

In a somewhat near future, I plan to add interaction with LaTeX :
reading the .aux file, I can import the values of LaTeX's counters in
python. You should be able to draw a line whose angular coefficient is
the number of the last equation ;)
That feature should also improve the computation of the bounding box
in taking into account the LaTeX labels that one put in the picture.

That lead me to the second tool I put online ...

The second, LaTeXparser[2], is a simple LaTeXparser in python. Given a
tex file, the features are
* answer to the questions : what are the defined macros ? among of
them, which are actually used ? with what arguments ?
* substitute \input{...} by the content of the file
* read the .aux file and take information about the values \label and
\ref


Every comments (and patches) are much welcome !

Have a good day
Laurent


[1] http://www.gitorious.org/phystricks
[2] http://www.gitorious.org/latexparser
[3] http://www.gitorious.org/phystricks-doc
[4] http://www.gitorious.org/phystricks-doc/phystricks-doc/trees/master
[5] http://sagemath.org/


From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb 14 07:17:40 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:17:40 +0100
Subject: problem with QtSignals "object has no attribute 'emit'"
Message-ID: <4b77e9e4$0$6277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I'm having a rather small code snippet, where I create pyQT signals.
I manage creating a signal as class attribute,
but I can't create a list of signals or a signal
as object.member.


> from PyQt4.QtGui import *
> from PyQt4.QtCore import *
> 
> class MyWin(QMainWindow):
>     clssig     = pyqtSignal()
>     sigarr   = [ pyqtSignal() ]
>     def emit_them(self):
>         self.objsig = pyqtSignal()
>         self.clssig.emit()    # works
>         self.sigarr[0].emit()  # fails 
>         self.objsig.emit()  # fails
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     app = QApplication(sys.argv)
>     win = MyWin()
>     win.show()
>     win.emit_them()
>     sys.exit(app.exec_())

The two lines marked with fails will fail with following error:
> AttributeError: 'PyQt4.QtCore.pyqtSignal' object has no attribute 'emit'

The QT documentation states:
"New signals should only be defined in sub-classes of QObject."

I guess, that his is the reason. though I don't know enough about PyQT
to understand the magic behind.


Now my question:

How could I create an array of signals if I wished to?

I can work aroud it, but would be curious.


Thanks for shadng some light on this (for me surprising) issue.


N


From jarausch at skynet.be  Sun Feb 14 07:36:19 2010
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:36:19 +0100
Subject: How to solve an LCP (linear complementarity problem) in python ?
In-Reply-To: <bdda4cc0-7334-4690-8469-e1dbce70a861@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <bdda4cc0-7334-4690-8469-e1dbce70a861@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b77ee43$0$2886$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

On 02/14/10 12:52, abent wrote:
> Is there a good library to numericly solve an LCP in python ?
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_complementarity_problem)
> 
> An example would be very helpful because most libraries seem to only
> solve QP's.
> I need this for computing 2d contact forces in a rigid body
> simulation.

Sorry, I can't help you except pointing you to
the Complementarity Problem Net

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/cpnet/

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From phil at riverbankcomputing.com  Sun Feb 14 07:53:49 2010
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.com (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:53:49 +0000
Subject: problem with QtSignals "object has no attribute 'emit'"
In-Reply-To: <4b77e9e4$0$6277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b77e9e4$0$6277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <50888e51273d0b98c5cb065d83488f8a@localhost>

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:17:40 +0100, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm having a rather small code snippet, where I create pyQT signals.
> I manage creating a signal as class attribute,
> but I can't create a list of signals or a signal
> as object.member.
> 
> 
>> from PyQt4.QtGui import *
>> from PyQt4.QtCore import *
>> 
>> class MyWin(QMainWindow):
>>     clssig     = pyqtSignal()
>>     sigarr   = [ pyqtSignal() ]
>>     def emit_them(self):
>>         self.objsig = pyqtSignal()
>>         self.clssig.emit()    # works
>>         self.sigarr[0].emit()  # fails 
>>         self.objsig.emit()  # fails
>> 
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>     app = QApplication(sys.argv)
>>     win = MyWin()
>>     win.show()
>>     win.emit_them()
>>     sys.exit(app.exec_())
> 
> The two lines marked with fails will fail with following error:
>> AttributeError: 'PyQt4.QtCore.pyqtSignal' object has no attribute 'emit'
> 
> The QT documentation states:
> "New signals should only be defined in sub-classes of QObject."
> 
> I guess, that his is the reason. though I don't know enough about PyQT
> to understand the magic behind.
> 
> 
> Now my question:
> 
> How could I create an array of signals if I wished to?
> 
> I can work aroud it, but would be curious.
> 
> 
> Thanks for shadng some light on this (for me surprising) issue.

You can't create an array of signals.

Signals are defined to both Python and C++. This is done when the class is
defined by introspecting the class attributes - but it doesn't look for
signals any deeper than that, i.e. it won't look into your sigarr list.

Even if it did, there is a second issue. Signals have unbound and bound
versions (much like unbound and bound methods). The class attribute is an
unbound signal that is a descriptor that will return the bound signal. It
is the bound signal that implements the emit() method. It would be possible
for an unbound signal's __call__ method to also return a bound signal so
that you could do something like...

    self.sigarr[0](self).emit()

...but I can't think of a valid use case.

Phil


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 14 10:11:19 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 15:11:19 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> The term "pointer" is very abstract.  Please give me a concrete
> definition of a pointer.

A programming language data type whose value directly specifies (or 
"points to") another value which is stored elsewhere in the computer 
memory.

I quote from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)

    [quote]
    A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the 
    more abstracted reference data type
    [end quote]

And later:

    [quote]
    While "pointer" has been used to refer to references in 
    general, it more properly applies to data structures whose 
    interface explicitly allows the pointer to be manipulated
    (arithmetically via pointer arithmetic) as a memory 
    address...
    [end quote]

And again:

    [quote]
    A memory pointer (or just pointer) is a primitive, the value 
    of which is intended to be used as a memory address; it is said 
    that a pointer points to a memory address. It is also said that
    a pointer points to a datum [in memory] when the pointer's value
    is the datum's memory address.

    More generally, a pointer is a kind of reference, and it is said 
    that a pointer references a datum stored somewhere in memory; to
    obtain that datum is to dereference the pointer. The feature that
    separates pointers from other kinds of reference is that a 
    pointer's value is meant to be interpreted as a memory address, 
    which is a rather 'low-level' concept.
    [end quote]


> A curly brace is one of these: { }
> 
> Pretty concrete, I hope.

But { and } are glyphs in some typeface. Chances are that what you see, 
and what I see, are quite different, and whatever pixels we see, the 
compiler sees something radically different: two abstract characters 
implemented in some concrete fashion, but that concrete fashion is a mere 
implementation detail. They could be implemented as bytes x7b and x7d, or 
as four-byte sequences x0000007b and x0000007d for UTF-32, or who knows 
what in some other system. So the *concrete* representation of the curly 
brace varies according to the system.

>From that, it's not a difficult leap to say that Pascal's BEGIN and END 
key words are mere alternate spellings of the abstract "open curly brace" 
and "close curly brace" with different concrete representations, and from 
that it's a small step to say that the INDENT and DEDENT tokens seen by 
the Python compiler (but absent from Python source code!) are too.


>> But reference also has a concrete meaning: C++ has a type explicitly
>> called "reference":
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C++)
>>
>>
> Of course, "reference" has concrete meanings in specific contexts. But I
> can refer you to much more general and abstract uses of the term
> "reference."  Do you want references?   I will be happy to refer you to
> appropriate references.

I know that reference can also be used in the abstract. I'm just warning 
that it can also be used in the concrete, and so we need to be wary of 
misunderstandings and confusions.


>> And of course call-by-reference (or pass-by-reference) has a specific,
>> technical meaning.
>>
>>
> Which is what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_reference



-- 
Steven


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 11:53:15 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
Message-ID: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
FACT1/).
Thank you

# To change this template, choose Tools | Templates
# and open the template in the editor.

__author__="Mukesh Tiwari"
__date__ ="$Feb 10, 2010 1:35:26 AM$"


import random
from Queue import Queue


def gcd(a,b):
    while b:
        a,b=b,a%b
    return a

def rabin_miller(p,t=1):
	if(p<2):
		return False
	if(p!=2 and p%2==0):
		return False
	s=p-1
	while(s%2==0):
		s>>=1
	for i in xrange(t):
		a=random.randrange(p-1)+1
		temp=s
		mod=pow(a,temp,p)
		while(temp!=p-1 and mod!=1 and mod!=p-1):
			mod=(mod*mod)%p
			temp=temp*2
		if(mod!=p-1 and temp%2==0):
			return False
	return True
def brent(n):
    if(n%2==0):
        return 2;
 
x,c,m=random.randrange(0,n),random.randrange(1,n),random.randrange(1,n)
    y,r,q=x,1,1
    g,ys=0,0
    while(True):
        x=y
        for i in range(r):
            y,k=(y*y+c)%n,0
        while(True):
            ys=y
            for i in range(min(m,r-k)):
                y,q=(y*y+c)%n,q*abs(x-y)%n
            g,k=gcd(q,n),k+m
            if(k>= r or g>1):break
        r=2*r
        if(g>1):break
    if(g==n):
        while(True):
            ys,g=(x*x+c)%n,gcd(abs(x-ys),n)
            if(g>1):break
    return g


def factor(n):
    Q_1,Q_2=Queue(),[]
    Q_1.put(n)
    while(not Q_1.empty()):
        l=Q_1.get()
        if(rabin_miller(l)):
            Q_2.append(l)
            continue
        d=brent(l)
        if(d==l):Q_1.put(l)
        else:
            Q_1.put(d)
            Q_1.put(l/d)
    return Q_2



if __name__ == "__main__":
    while(True):
        n=int(raw_input())
        if(n==0):break
        L=factor(n)
        L.sort()
        #print L
        i=0
        s=""
        while(i<len(L)):
            cnt=L.count(L[i])
            #print "%d^%d"%(L[i],cnt)
            s+=str(L[i])+"^"+str(cnt)+" "
            i+=cnt
        print s[:-1]


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Feb 14 12:12:32 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:12:32 +0000
Subject: Python Optimization
In-Reply-To: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9asa$a2b$1@ger.gmane.org>

mukesh tiwari wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
> code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
> pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
> FACT1/).
> Thank you
> 
> # To change this template, choose Tools | Templates
> # and open the template in the editor.
> 
> __author__="Mukesh Tiwari"
> __date__ ="$Feb 10, 2010 1:35:26 AM$"
> 
> 
> import random
> from Queue import Queue
> 
> 
> def gcd(a,b):
>     while b:
>         a,b=b,a%b
>     return a
> 
> def rabin_miller(p,t=1):
> 	if(p<2):
> 		return False
> 	if(p!=2 and p%2==0):
> 		return False
> 	s=p-1
> 	while(s%2==0):
> 		s>>=1
> 	for i in xrange(t):
> 		a=random.randrange(p-1)+1
> 		temp=s
> 		mod=pow(a,temp,p)
> 		while(temp!=p-1 and mod!=1 and mod!=p-1):
> 			mod=(mod*mod)%p
> 			temp=temp*2
> 		if(mod!=p-1 and temp%2==0):
> 			return False
> 	return True
> def brent(n):
>     if(n%2==0):
>         return 2;
>  
> x,c,m=random.randrange(0,n),random.randrange(1,n),random.randrange(1,n)
>     y,r,q=x,1,1
>     g,ys=0,0
>     while(True):
>         x=y
>         for i in range(r):
>             y,k=(y*y+c)%n,0
>         while(True):
>             ys=y
>             for i in range(min(m,r-k)):
>                 y,q=(y*y+c)%n,q*abs(x-y)%n
>             g,k=gcd(q,n),k+m
>             if(k>= r or g>1):break
>         r=2*r
>         if(g>1):break
>     if(g==n):
>         while(True):
>             ys,g=(x*x+c)%n,gcd(abs(x-ys),n)
>             if(g>1):break
>     return g
> 
> 
> def factor(n):
>     Q_1,Q_2=Queue(),[]
>     Q_1.put(n)
>     while(not Q_1.empty()):
>         l=Q_1.get()
>         if(rabin_miller(l)):
>             Q_2.append(l)
>             continue
>         d=brent(l)
>         if(d==l):Q_1.put(l)
>         else:
>             Q_1.put(d)
>             Q_1.put(l/d)
>     return Q_2
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     while(True):
>         n=int(raw_input())
>         if(n==0):break
>         L=factor(n)
>         L.sort()
>         #print L
>         i=0
>         s=""
>         while(i<len(L)):
>             cnt=L.count(L[i])
>             #print "%d^%d"%(L[i],cnt)
>             s+=str(L[i])+"^"+str(cnt)+" "
>             i+=cnt
>         print s[:-1]

A good starting point is 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/PerformanceTips

HTH.

Mark Lawrence



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb 14 12:29:41 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:29:41 +0000
Subject: Hashing in python
In-Reply-To: <4B77C17A.1020306@v.loewis.de>
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2512.1266108436.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B77C17A.1020306@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4B783305.5090405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
>> floor(x) returns an integer
> 
> Why do you say that? Assuming you are talking about math.floor, it works
> differently for me:
> 
> py> math.floor(10.0/3)
> 3.0
> 
I've just double-checked. It returns a float in Python 2.x and an int in
Python 3.x. (I recently switched to Python 3.1.)


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Feb 14 12:47:30 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:47:30 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain> <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 14.02.10 13:05, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 10:16 +0100, Paul K?lle wrote:
>> Am 13.02.2010 10:50, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a module/plugin/intra-process-communication/hook system
>>> for python. Maybe someone here could point me to some project I missed
>>> or might have some good ideas if I end up implementing it myself.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> The plugins you wrote probably import them from the wiki module directly
>>> which means your blog would depend on the wiki. (?!) So where to put the
>>> interface/[...] definition that is imported by those plugins? Create a
>>> package/module just containing the interface? This really get
>>> troublesome if different people wrote the wiki, the blog and another
>>> third one a plugin.
>
>> If you are talking about code sharing you can move the common code out
>> of your applications in a seperate namespace. If you follow the model
>> trac is using you would install a module/package/egg with the basic
>> functionality of the pluginsystem (i.e. what's in core.py and env.py +
>> logging and whatever you think is necessary).
>
>> All shared code like your auth-plugins would go in a common plugin
>> directory to which you can refer via PYTHONPATH.
>
> You're right, its about code sharing/reusing - should have said it more
> clearly. What I am looking for is the pluginsystem that makes this easy.
> Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've seen)
> approach:
>
> You need to define something like:
> |
> | class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
> |
> in your blog software.

Why? Any reason you can't define it in a separate package the 
blog-software depends on, as well as your wiki?


And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior 
counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit 
declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic 
reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.

diez


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 12:48:11 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:48:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.
> [...]

How much of a speedup do you need?  Are we talking about orders of
magnitude (in which case you might want to consider using something
like the Multiple Polynomial Quadratic Sieve method instead, or as
well), or just a few percent?

(1) Have you profiled the code to see where it's spending most of its
time?  This is an essential first step.

(2) Obvious things: use range rather than xrange in your loops.  Make
sure that all heavily used variables/functions are local to the
function you're using them in.  E.g., you use range, min and abs in
the middle of the 'brent' function.  Instead, start the brent function
by setting _abs, _range, _min = abs, range, min, and then use _abs,
_range, etc. instead.  Lookups of local variables are faster than
globals.

(3) In the inner loop:

            for i in range(min(m,r-k)):
                y,q=(y*y+c)%n,q*abs(x-y)%n

you can get probably rid of the abs call.  It *might* also help to
avoid the tuple packing/unpacking (but see (1)).  You could try doing
a couple of steps at a time instead of one (i.e., unroll the loop a
little bit);  one advantage is that you probably don't need to bother
reducing q modulo n at every step;  every other step would be good
enough.  Depending on the relative speed of multiplication and
reduction, and the sizes of the integers involved, this might save
time.

(4) Have you tried using Montgomery reduction in the Brent method?
The inner loop of that method involves two reductions modulo n, which
may well be where the biggest bottleneck is.  But see (1). The other
obvious bottleneck is the gcd method;  if profiling shows that that's
the case, there might be ways to speed that up, too.  (E.g., use a
binary gcd algorithm, or use Lehmer's method.)

Good luck!
--
Mark


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 12:51:38 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:51:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 7:11?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > The term "pointer" is very abstract. ?Please give me a concrete
> > definition of a pointer.
>
> A programming language data type whose value directly specifies (or
> "points to") another value which is stored elsewhere in the computer
> memory.
>
> I quote from Wikipedia:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)
>
> ? ? [quote]
> ? ? A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the
> ? ? more abstracted reference data type
> ? ? [end quote]
>
> And later:
>
> ? ? [quote]
> ? ? While "pointer" has been used to refer to references in
> ? ? general, it more properly applies to data structures whose
> ? ? interface explicitly allows the pointer to be manipulated
> ? ? (arithmetically via pointer arithmetic) as a memory
> ? ? address...
> ? ? [end quote]
>
> And again:
>
> ? ? [quote]
> ? ? A memory pointer (or just pointer) is a primitive, the value
> ? ? of which is intended to be used as a memory address; it is said
> ? ? that a pointer points to a memory address. It is also said that
> ? ? a pointer points to a datum [in memory] when the pointer's value
> ? ? is the datum's memory address.
>
> ? ? More generally, a pointer is a kind of reference, and it is said
> ? ? that a pointer references a datum stored somewhere in memory; to
> ? ? obtain that datum is to dereference the pointer. The feature that
> ? ? separates pointers from other kinds of reference is that a
> ? ? pointer's value is meant to be interpreted as a memory address,
> ? ? which is a rather 'low-level' concept.
> ? ? [end quote]
>
> > A curly brace is one of these: { }
>
> > Pretty concrete, I hope.
>
> But { and } are glyphs in some typeface. Chances are that what you see,
> and what I see, are quite different, and whatever pixels we see, the
> compiler sees something radically different: two abstract characters
> implemented in some concrete fashion, but that concrete fashion is a mere
> implementation detail. They could be implemented as bytes x7b and x7d, or
> as four-byte sequences x0000007b and x0000007d for UTF-32, or who knows
> what in some other system. So the *concrete* representation of the curly
> brace varies according to the system.
>
> From that, it's not a difficult leap to say that Pascal's BEGIN and END
> key words are mere alternate spellings of the abstract "open curly brace"
> and "close curly brace" with different concrete representations, and from
> that it's a small step to say that the INDENT and DEDENT tokens seen by
> the Python compiler (but absent from Python source code!) are too.
>

Thanks.  It's a useful analogy; I think I understand your point
better.  I've been bouncing around between Python and Javascript a lot
lately, so your analogy resonates with me.  There are many times when
I find myself simply respelling things like begin/end, and those
respellings to me almost make me think of Python and Javascript as
different dialects of an underlying language.  Of course, there are
other places where the languages differ more substantively, too.

Going back to pointers vs. references, I think the key distinction
being made is that pointers allow specific memory manipulation,
although I think even there you're really just dealing with
abstractions.  The address 0x78F394D2 is a little bit closer to the
machine than, say, the 42nd element of a Python list, but they are
both just abstractions on top of underlying machines, whether the
machines are virtual, electronic circuits, vacuum tubes, whatever.
You can add 6 to 42 and get the 48th object, but its Python's
convention not to call the 48th object a memory address or expose a
reference to it as a pointer.  If I want to pass along the reference
to the 48th element of a list as the slot to be updated (i.e. with the
intention to actually mutate the list itself), then I need a tuple
like (lst, 48).



From kaklis at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 12:59:12 2010
From: kaklis at gmail.com (kaklis at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:59:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Comparing file last access date
Message-ID: <2e4fc893-2fe7-467a-8b5e-abe0816e665d@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi to all,
what i want is to search a folder, and if the last access date of the
files in that folder is greater than, lets say 7 days, those files
deleted. (Somekind of a file cleaner script)
I had problems with converting

now = today = datetime.date.today()
and
stats = os.stat(file)
lastAccessDate = time.localtime(stats[7])

into matching formats so that
     if (now - lastAccessDate) > 7:
                 delete the file

what i do wrong
Thanks in advance
Antonis


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 14 13:03:21 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 10:03:21 -0800
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9dt9$oe9$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
Mark Dickinson  <dickinsm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>(2) Obvious things: use range rather than xrange in your loops.  

Um, what?  You meant the reverse, surely?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb 14 13:20:27 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:20:27 +0000
Subject: Comparing file last access date
In-Reply-To: <2e4fc893-2fe7-467a-8b5e-abe0816e665d@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <2e4fc893-2fe7-467a-8b5e-abe0816e665d@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B783EEB.9030800@mrabarnett.plus.com>

kaklis at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi to all,
> what i want is to search a folder, and if the last access date of the
> files in that folder is greater than, lets say 7 days, those files
> deleted. (Somekind of a file cleaner script)
> I had problems with converting
> 
> now = today = datetime.date.today()
> and
> stats = os.stat(file)
> lastAccessDate = time.localtime(stats[7])
> 
> into matching formats so that
>      if (now - lastAccessDate) > 7:
>                  delete the file
> 
> what i do wrong
> Thanks in advance
> Antonis

I would use:

     seven_days = 7 * 24 * 60 * 60 # 7 days in seconds

     now = time.time() # in seconds since Epoch

     ...

     last_access = os.path.getatime(path) # in seconds since Epoch
     if now - last_access > seven_days:
         os.remove(path)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 14 13:21:25 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 10:21:25 -0800
Subject: shelve.open generates (22,
	'Invalid argument')  Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5
References: <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9ev5$i2u$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482 at r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
seth  <hklasky at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>We have a code that creates a simple Python shelve database. We are
>able to serialize objects and store them in the dbm file. This seem to
>work the same on Windows XP Python 2.5, Ubuntu 9.1 with Python 2.6,
>but on Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5 the database filename is changed by
>the operating system by attaching the .db extension to it. Does an one
>know why is that?

Nope -- any reason you can't change the filename?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb 14 13:32:29 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:32:29 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <a6aa571f-f051-4ded-b499-16fbcf6dddb3@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2465.1266012634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6aa571f-f051-4ded-b499-16fbcf6dddb3@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9fkm$or3$1@ger.gmane.org>

rantingrick wrote:
> On Feb 12, 4:10 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> 
> On Feb 12, 4:10 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> 
> Steve,
> Why do so many of your posts come in as doubles and triples. Is this a
> case of "studdering click finger" of some fault of your newsreader?
> 
> -- concerned fellow pythonista...

I suspect it's because I am being insufficiently disciplined about using
"reply" instead of "reply all". On gmane they only appear once, so I
suspect some other component of the mail/news loop is less assiduous
about de-duping the content.

How do you read the list?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 13:41:35 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:41:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <88a7ff43-3f1d-4e30-ad50-59b6c2f215f7@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 9:48?am, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> > c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> > python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.
> > [...]
>
> How much of a speedup do you need? ?Are we talking about orders of
> magnitude (in which case you might want to consider using something
> like the Multiple Polynomial Quadratic Sieve method instead, or as
> well), or just a few percent?
>
> (1) Have you profiled the code to see where it's spending most of its
> time? ?This is an essential first step.
>

I ditto the profiling recommendation.

http://docs.python.org/library/profile.html

It might also be useful to time your algorithm for n=10, 100, 1000,
10000, etc., to get a better sense of how the overall algorithm
behaves.


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 13:48:50 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:48:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2465.1266012634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6aa571f-f051-4ded-b499-16fbcf6dddb3@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2544.1266172398.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7c65aa94-ed69-48d9-b37b-8b1cb376fa3e@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 10:32?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> rantingrick wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 4:10 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> >> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >>> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>
> > On Feb 12, 4:10 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> >> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >>> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>
> > Steve,
> > Why do so many of your posts come in as doubles and triples. Is this a
> > case of "studdering click finger" of some fault of your newsreader?
>
> > -- concerned fellow pythonista...
>
> I suspect it's because I am being insufficiently disciplined about using
> "reply" instead of "reply all". On gmane they only appear once, so I
> suspect some other component of the mail/news loop is less assiduous
> about de-duping the content.
>
> How do you read the list?
>

Hi Steve, I mostly read the list through Google groups, and I have
seen occasional dups from you.  Of course, the readers themselves
could be a little smarter about recognizing duplication, but that does
not appear to be the case with Google.  On the other hand, I am not
seeing dups from you in a quick skim of this thread, so I wonder if it
just takes Google a little while to weed out the dups.



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 14:04:37 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:04:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6bb774a3-ed05-402a-a7f2-9c472940379e@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 5:50?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:09 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> > My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> > MemoryError. ?I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not 2GB
> > worth.

> > 2. ? ?When do I need
> > to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when can I trust Python to
> > take care of it?
>
> You never need to manually allocate memory.
>
> You *may* need to deallocate memory if you make "reference loops", where
> one object refers to itself:
>
> l = [] ?# make an empty list
> l.append(l) ?# add the list l to itself
>
> Python can break such simple reference loops itself, but for more
> complicated ones, you may need to break them yourself:
>
> a = []
> b = {2: a}
> c = (None, b)
> d = [1, 'z', c]
> a.append(d) ?# a reference loop
>
> Python will deallocate objects when they are no longer in use. They are
> always considered in use any time you have them assigned to a name, or in
> a list or dict or other structure which is in use.
>
> You can explicitly remove a name with the del command. For example:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> del x
>
> After deleting the name x, the list object itself is no longer in use
> anywhere and Python will deallocate it. But consider:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> y = x ?# y now refers to THE SAME list object
> del x
>
> Although you have deleted the name x, the list object is still bound to
> the name y, and so Python will *not* deallocate the list.
>
> Likewise:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> y = [None, 1, x, 'hello world']
> del x
>
> Although now the list isn't bound to a name, it is inside another list,
> and so Python will not deallocate it.
>

Another technique that comes up some time is that you have a list of
objects that you are processing:

x = [obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4]

When you are done processing obj1, you want to remove the reference to
it, but you do not necessarily want to change the list itself.  You
can break the reference by saying "x[0] = None" when you are done
handling obj1.  Of course, if you can avoid creating the list in the
first place, as some people have suggested, then you really get a
savings.

The setting-to-None technique is also occasionally useful with
objects, where you can say foo.bar = None when you are done with "bar"
but not with "foo."  Of course, the need to use such a technique often
points out a deeper code smell with Foo itself, but I've seen it come
up.

Steven's examples of a reference loop are deliberately simplified, of
course, but the chain of references in a real world program can get
quite long, and there's often great savings to be reaped if you can
break the "keystone" reference, so to speak.  In other words, breaking
just one reference often allows other references to fall down like
dominos.



From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 14:35:35 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:35:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl9dt9$oe9$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <b2399942-36d9-42a1-ae3e-0314dd12c9d6@f34g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 6:03?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8d... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
> Mark Dickinson ?<dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >(2) Obvious things: use range rather than xrange in your loops. ?
>
> Um, what? ?You meant the reverse, surely?

Er, yes I did.  Thanks!

--
Mark


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 14:52:51 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:52:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <892f7664-14e9-4ce4-ab50-499fc8552ec3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
> code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
> pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
> FACT1/).
> Thank you

One other thing:  in the 'brent' function, you're setting m to
randrange(1, n).  What's the purpose of this?  It looks to me as
though m controls the number of Pollard-Rho iterations that are
clumped together at one time (before doing a gcd operation), and using
a random number for this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

--
Mark


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 15:07:41 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:07:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<892f7664-14e9-4ce4-ab50-499fc8552ec3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0eac0e90-fd39-4851-b979-c109218fb0ba@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 11:52?am, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> > c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> > python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
> > code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
> > pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
> > FACT1/).
> > Thank you
>
> One other thing: ?in the 'brent' function, you're setting m to
> randrange(1, n). ?What's the purpose of this? ?It looks to me as
> though m controls the number of Pollard-Rho iterations that are
> clumped together at one time (before doing a gcd operation), and using
> a random number for this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
>

The randomness also makes the algorithm a little buggy.

I tried this input:

37^5 41^5

Usually I get the right answer.  Other times I get this:

37^5 41^3 1681^1

And occasionally it appears to get into an infinite loop, which
definitely could be a cause of "slowness." :)




From phiporiphic at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 15:23:41 2010
From: phiporiphic at gmail.com (Mr.John)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:23:41 -0500
Subject: Fighting with subprocess.Popen
Message-ID: <6ac1a5aa1002141223h54b6aca6k3f2a57a85fc1bad5@mail.gmail.com>

I'm using Python 2.6.2 as packaged with Fedora 12. I'm trying to use
subprocess.Popen() to call /usr/bin/pactl, a simple PulseAudio command
parser.

I'm having a hard time, because it only works part of the time. If pactl
gets a blank or invalid command, it says "No valid command specified.", and
this is what prints to stderr most of the time. I can get the result of
"pactl list", but anything else I try returns "No valid command specified."
So, pactl is getting called, but my args are disappearing somewhere. But not
every time...

Below is a test case that demonstrates this. Tests 1 & 2 concatenate the
command and the argument, Tests 3 & 4 mimic the python docs and use the form
Popen(["mycmd", "myarg"], ...), which never seems to work.

import subprocess

list = 'list'
list_sinks = 'list-sinks'

print("### TEST 1")
a = subprocess.Popen('pactl ' + list, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
res = a.communicate()
print(repr(res[0]))

print("### TEST 2")
a = subprocess.Popen('pactl ' + list_sinks, shell=True,
stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
res = a.communicate()
print(repr(res[0]))

print("### TEST 3")
a = subprocess.Popen(['pactl', list], shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
res = a.communicate()
print(repr(res[0]))

print("### TEST 4")
a = subprocess.Popen(['pactl', list_sinks], shell=True,
stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
res = a.communicate()
print(repr(res[0]))
### TEST 1
(success... snip)
### TEST 2
No valid command specified.
''
### TEST 3
No valid command specified.
''
### TEST 4
No valid command specified.
''

Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks,
John
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 14 15:39:40 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 12:39:40 -0800
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq3lv$7k2$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8fc356e0-f3ed-4a67-9b37-f21561cef4a5@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9n2c$9r6$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <8fc356e0-f3ed-4a67-9b37-f21561cef4a5 at p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Sean DiZazzo  <half.italian at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 8, 2:36=A0pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article <dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f6... at s36g2000prh.googlegroups=
>.com>,
>> Sean DiZazzo =A0<half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Why did Path() get rejected? Is it the idea itself, or just the
>>>approach that was used? What are the complaints?
>>
>> You should search for the discussiona around it.
>
>I read the discussion, and there was definitely some going back and
>forth on whether it should be sub-classed from string, but the
>conversation just seemed to stop abruptly with no decision one way of
>the other.  Maybe I missed a thread.
>
>I guess being dropped without a final go-ahead is just as good as a
>formal no anyway.

Not quite: because it was not rejected, someone who wants to shepherd the
process forward would likely be welcomed (even if it ends up with formal
rejection).  I suggest starting by writing your own summary of the
previous discussion and see if the people involved agree that your
summary is reasonably accurate.  Also check to see if the original PEP
writer wants to be involved or whether zie is willing to have you take
over.

Another good (and related) starting point would be to create a reasoning
favoring one side or the other that was not brought up in previous
discussion.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Feb 14 15:43:22 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:43:22 +0100
Subject: Fighting with subprocess.Popen
In-Reply-To: <6ac1a5aa1002141223h54b6aca6k3f2a57a85fc1bad5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6ac1a5aa1002141223h54b6aca6k3f2a57a85fc1bad5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl9n98$hpc$1@ger.gmane.org>

Mr.John wrote:
> Below is a test case that demonstrates this. Tests 1 & 2 concatenate the
> command and the argument, Tests 3 & 4 mimic the python docs and use the form
> Popen(["mycmd", "myarg"], ...), which never seems to work.

It doesn't work with shell=True because the shell is not able to
interpret the list form. It's recommended that you don't use shell=True
unless you need a shell.

Christian



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Sun Feb 14 15:46:13 2010
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:46:13 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <hl650a$1je$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<32835daa-ced4-4c67-b335-25b44d734674@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl650a$1je$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <tiZdn.271380$4N3.63797@newsfe06.ams2>

Op 2010-02-13 13:14, Alf P. Steinbach schreef:
> * hjebbers:
>> I enlarged the windows page file from 750Kb to 1.5Gb .
>> The crash still happens.
>> btw, the crash does not happen at a peak memory usage.
>> According to windows task manager, at the moment of crash mem usage of
>> my program is 669kb, peak memory usage is 1.136kb
>>
>> henk-jan
> 
> Probably you meant to write "M", not "k" or "K"?
> 
> I've never managed to make much sense of the displays in Windows' Task Manager, 
> if that's what you're using, but I think the mem usage it's displaying by 
> default is the process' working set, or something very similar to that measure.
> 
> You can display additional columns in Task Manager, and one useful one is how 
> much virtual memory is allocated,.
> 
> And perhaps then (if that's not what you're looking it already) it'll be closer 
> to 2 GiB?

Note that the memory measurements in Task Manager are pretty limited
and. Comparing Task Manager and Process Explorer:

Task Manager - Process Explorer
Mem Usage - Working Set
VM Size - Private Bytes
n/a - Virtual Size

I tend to trust Process Explorer a lot more than Task Manager. Note that
what Task Manager calls VM Size is not the size of the virtual memory as
might be expected (if Process Explorer is to be trusted), and that Task
Manager doesn't show the virtual memory size (at least on Windows XP).

-- 
The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge
faster than society gathers wisdom.
  -- Isaac Asimov

Roel Schroeven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Feb 14 16:23:30 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:23:30 -0500
Subject: Function attributes [OT]
In-Reply-To: <hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl9pkd$oka$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/13/2010 8:14 AM, Steve Holden wrote:

> Gmane is primarily a news (NNTP-based) service, though for reasons best
> know to the organizers they choose to rename the standard newsgroups to
> fit their own idea of how the universe should be organized, so there the
> group becomes gmane.comp.python.general.

As I understand the site, the last I read a year or two ago, gmane is a 
technical mailinglist-to-news gateway. It does not mirror newsgroups, 
standard or not. It only mirrors lists such as python-list, not 
newsgroups, such comp.lang.python. In doing so, it organizes the lists 
into categories like g.comp.python, which has about 200 subgroups 
mirroring 200 python lists.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb 14 16:32:36 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:32:36 -0500
Subject: Function attributes [OT]
In-Reply-To: <hl9pkd$oka$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>	<hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<hl9pkd$oka$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl9q6g$pl2$1@ger.gmane.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/13/2010 8:14 AM, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> Gmane is primarily a news (NNTP-based) service, though for reasons best
>> know to the organizers they choose to rename the standard newsgroups to
>> fit their own idea of how the universe should be organized, so there the
>> group becomes gmane.comp.python.general.
> 
> As I understand the site, the last I read a year or two ago, gmane is a
> technical mailinglist-to-news gateway. It does not mirror newsgroups,
> standard or not. It only mirrors lists such as python-list, not
> newsgroups, such comp.lang.python. In doing so, it organizes the lists
> into categories like g.comp.python, which has about 200 subgroups
> mirroring 200 python lists.
> 
That would make more sense. I know that the python.org infrastructure
acts as a gateway between the mailing list and the newsgroup.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From rridge at csclub.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Feb 14 17:05:07 2010
From: rridge at csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:05:07 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
	<7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<vg3r5opotmu.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <hl9s2j$716$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit
> through paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.

Anssi Saari  <as at sci.fi> wrote:
>That too. I admit, after checking, that you can't go above 3 GiB per
>process even in server Windows. But for Linux there exists (or
>existed, since it seems it hasn't been updated since 2004) a kernel
>patch which provides a "4GB/4GB" address split. Kernel is in one
>segment, userland in another and hence a process can access full 4GB.

Windows has a similar feature that allows 32-bit applications running on
64-bit versions of Windows to have a nearly 4Gb virtual address space.
Windows also allows 32-bit applications to use more than 4GB of physical
memory through a paging mechanism called "Address Windowing Extensions".
Also 32-bit applications can effectively use more than 4GB of RAM through
indirect means like multiple processes, the disk cache or video card RAM.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge at csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  


From joe at joemoney.net  Sun Feb 14 17:42:35 2010
From: joe at joemoney.net (monkeys paw)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:42:35 -0500
Subject: new python install
Message-ID: <4badnYd5OJHA4eXWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.com>

Upon invoking python, it hangs
until Ctrl^C is typed, and then the
 >>> interactive shell begins.

Like so:

joemoney% python
Python 2.4.6 (#1, Dec 13 2009, 23:45:11) [C] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
# Hangs ^^^ at this point until ^C is typed
^C

 >>>


I've seen this in other new installs and wondered if there is
a common problem that would cause this? It's on a sun os box


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Feb 14 18:20:40 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:20:40 +0100
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2535.1266146945.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>	<7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2535.1266146945.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7treq9FrsnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 14.02.10 12:28, schrieb Laszlo Nagy:
> 2010.02.13. 17:40 keltez?ssel, Diez B. Roggisch ?rta:
>> Am 13.02.10 17:18, schrieb Anssi Saari:
>>> Nobody<nobody at nowhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a
>>>> 64-bit CPU
>>>> and OS.
>>>
>>> That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
>>> allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
>>> Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.
>>
>> No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit
>> through paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.
> PAE is for the kernel. Yes, you can use much more memory with 32 bit
> kernel + PAE. But the ~3G per 32bit process limit still applies. It is
> because the PAE extension allows the kernel to distribute the same
> virtual address ranges between different processes, but map them to
> different physical memory addresses. However, the process that was
> compiled and is running in 32 bit mode, cannot access more than ~3GB
> simply because it is not able to address more memory locations with 32
> bit addresses. (minus ~1G is because it needs virtual addresses for I/O
> devices as well, and those addresses cannot be mapped to physical memory).

No. It can access more, through paging, similar like mmap. Specialized 
software like databases do that to keep large data in memory. And this 
has nothing to do with compilation.

Of course this doesn't help for python, at least not for python-objects, 
as these need a flat memory model. But it's not true that only the 
kernels benefit from the PAE.

Diez


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Feb 14 18:41:59 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:41:59 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B788A47.1040609@stoneleaf.us>

Steve Howell wrote:
> On Feb 14, 7:11 am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
>>
>>>The term "pointer" is very abstract.  Please give me a concrete
>>>definition of a pointer.
>>
>>A programming language data type whose value directly specifies (or
>>"points to") another value which is stored elsewhere in the computer
>>memory.
>>
>>I quote from Wikipedia:
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)
>>
>>    [quote]
>>    A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the
>>    more abstracted reference data type
>>    [end quote]
>>
>>And later:
>>
>>    [quote]
>>    While "pointer" has been used to refer to references in
>>    general, it more properly applies to data structures whose
>>    interface explicitly allows the pointer to be manipulated
>>    (arithmetically via pointer arithmetic) as a memory
>>    address...
>>    [end quote]
>>
>>And again:
>>
>>    [quote]
>>    A memory pointer (or just pointer) is a primitive, the value
>>    of which is intended to be used as a memory address; it is said
>>    that a pointer points to a memory address. It is also said that
>>    a pointer points to a datum [in memory] when the pointer's value
>>    is the datum's memory address.
>>
>>    More generally, a pointer is a kind of reference, and it is said
>>    that a pointer references a datum stored somewhere in memory; to
>>    obtain that datum is to dereference the pointer. The feature that
>>    separates pointers from other kinds of reference is that a
>>    pointer's value is meant to be interpreted as a memory address,
>>    which is a rather 'low-level' concept.
>>    [end quote]
>>
>>
>>>A curly brace is one of these: { }
>>
>>>Pretty concrete, I hope.
>>
>>But { and } are glyphs in some typeface. Chances are that what you see,
>>and what I see, are quite different, and whatever pixels we see, the
>>compiler sees something radically different: two abstract characters
>>implemented in some concrete fashion, but that concrete fashion is a mere
>>implementation detail. They could be implemented as bytes x7b and x7d, or
>>as four-byte sequences x0000007b and x0000007d for UTF-32, or who knows
>>what in some other system. So the *concrete* representation of the curly
>>brace varies according to the system.
>>
>>From that, it's not a difficult leap to say that Pascal's BEGIN and END
>>key words are mere alternate spellings of the abstract "open curly brace"
>>and "close curly brace" with different concrete representations, and from
>>that it's a small step to say that the INDENT and DEDENT tokens seen by
>>the Python compiler (but absent from Python source code!) are too.
>>
> 
> 
> Thanks.  It's a useful analogy; I think I understand your point
> better.  I've been bouncing around between Python and Javascript a lot
> lately, so your analogy resonates with me.  There are many times when
> I find myself simply respelling things like begin/end, and those
> respellings to me almost make me think of Python and Javascript as
> different dialects of an underlying language.  Of course, there are
> other places where the languages differ more substantively, too.
> 
> Going back to pointers vs. references, I think the key distinction
> being made is that pointers allow specific memory manipulation,
> although I think even there you're really just dealing with
> abstractions.  The address 0x78F394D2 is a little bit closer to the
> machine than, say, the 42nd element of a Python list, but they are
> both just abstractions on top of underlying machines, whether the
> machines are virtual, electronic circuits, vacuum tubes, whatever.
> You can add 6 to 42 and get the 48th object, but its Python's
> convention not to call the 48th object a memory address or expose a
> reference to it as a pointer.  If I want to pass along the reference
> to the 48th element of a list as the slot to be updated (i.e. with the
> intention to actually mutate the list itself), then I need a tuple
> like (lst, 48).
> 

I think that's the key right there -- if 48 was really a pointer, you 
wouldn't need to pass lst in as 48 would in fact be the memory address 
of the object you wanted to manipulate.

~Ethan~


From m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu  Sun Feb 14 19:19:07 2010
From: m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu (Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:19:07 -0500
Subject: FW: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E056@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>,
	<6546CE32-E9EA-4E33-9C7B-8A9808A4A083@gmail.com>,
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E056@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E057@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>


I use the physical and kernel memory boxes in the windows task manager under the performance tab... in that way I can see the exact RAM that just OS and idle processes occupy before I run my app, and then also the limit at which my app pushes the memory...


M. Angelica Echavarria-Gregory, M.Sc., E.I.
Ph.D Candidate
University of Miami
Phone 305 284-3611
________________________________________
From: ssteinerX at gmail.com [ssteinerx at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:58 PM
To: Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: MemoryError, can I use more?

On Feb 12, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:

> Dear group:
>
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
>
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...

How are you determining that it has occupied "exactly only 2.2GB?"

S

From m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu  Sun Feb 14 19:20:44 2010
From: m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu (Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:20:44 -0500
Subject: FW: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>,
	<a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>,
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>


Dear Chris,

One of the machines I tested my app in is 64 bit and happened the same. The RAM consumed by the OS and other processes is already included in the 2.2 I'm telling... my app enters to work when the RAM is already consumed in ~600 MB in the 3- 32 bit machines ... in the 64 bit machine was exactly the same only that it started a little bit higher because it has windows 7... so should I understand that there is nothing I can do for my app to use up more RAM?

Thanks for your time and answer,
Angelica.


M. Angelica Echavarria-Gregory, M.Sc., E.I.
Ph.D Candidate
University of Miami
Phone 305 284-3611

________________________________
From: Chris Kaynor [ckaynor at zindagigames.com]
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:44 PM
To: Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: MemoryError, can I use more?

A 32 bit app can only use 4 GB of memory itself (regardless of the amount of system ram), the OS claims some of this for the system, dlls occupy some of it, etc. As such, the app can only really use a smaller subset (generally between 2 to 3 GB, depending upon the app and the OS).

Chris


On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica <m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu<mailto:m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu>> wrote:
Dear group:

I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.

Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...

Thanks,
Angelica.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 14 19:41:10 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 01:41:10 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ethan Furman:
> Steve Howell wrote:
>>
>> Going back to pointers vs. references, I think the key distinction
>> being made is that pointers allow specific memory manipulation,
>> although I think even there you're really just dealing with
>> abstractions.  The address 0x78F394D2 is a little bit closer to the
>> machine than, say, the 42nd element of a Python list, but they are
>> both just abstractions on top of underlying machines, whether the
>> machines are virtual, electronic circuits, vacuum tubes, whatever.
>> You can add 6 to 42 and get the 48th object, but its Python's
>> convention not to call the 48th object a memory address or expose a
>> reference to it as a pointer.  If I want to pass along the reference
>> to the 48th element of a list as the slot to be updated (i.e. with the
>> intention to actually mutate the list itself), then I need a tuple
>> like (lst, 48).
>>
> 
> I think that's the key right there -- if 48 was really a pointer, you 
> wouldn't need to pass lst in as 48 would in fact be the memory address 
> of the object you wanted to manipulate.

The generalization is known as a "based pointer".

Except where it's a fundamental abstraction in a programming language, where it 
might be called anything.

For example, in C++ some so called "member pointers" are logically based 
pointers. They have pointer syntax (as do C++ iterators, which are not 
necessarily pointers), but member pointers are not pointers in the C++ 
standard's sense; in particular, dereferencing a C++ member pointer yields a 
typeless entity, which is not the case for a normal pointer, although that 
standard confusingly calls also member pointers pointers in some places, and in 
other places uses the pointer term only about basic pointers.

So, delving into the details of that terminology means traveling into a pretty 
chaotic territory. But on the other hand, going for the more abstract it gets 
cleaner and simpler. The Wikipedia article is about in the middle somewhere.

It is perhaps not confusing that it is confusing to many. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From tgrav at mac.com  Sun Feb 14 20:03:26 2010
From: tgrav at mac.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:03:26 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <5664AF57-8837-4012-ABB4-B9DAA65B0A2F@mac.com>


On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:

> 
> Dear Chris,
> 
> One of the machines I tested my app in is 64 bit and happened the same. The RAM consumed by the OS and other processes is already included in the 2.2 I'm telling... my app enters to work when the RAM is already consumed in ~600 MB in the 3- 32 bit machines ... in the 64 bit machine was exactly the same only that it started a little bit higher because it has windows 7... so should I understand that there is nothing I can do for my app to use up more RAM?

It is not just the machine. If your python is compiled as 32bit then it will be limited to 2GB.
To use more you have to use a 64 bit python on a 64 bit machine. 

Tommy
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb 14 21:28:16 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:28:16 -0600
Subject: new python install
In-Reply-To: <4badnYd5OJHA4eXWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <4badnYd5OJHA4eXWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4B78B140.9020804@tim.thechases.com>

monkeys paw wrote:
> Upon invoking python, it hangs
> until Ctrl^C is typed, and then the
>  >>> interactive shell begins.
> 
> Like so:
> 
> joemoney% python
> Python 2.4.6 (#1, Dec 13 2009, 23:45:11) [C] on sunos5
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> # Hangs ^^^ at this point until ^C is typed
> ^C
> 
>  >>>
> 
> I've seen this in other new installs and wondered if there is
> a common problem that would cause this? It's on a sun os box

Though I've never seen such live, perhaps you have some sort of 
site-wide or user-specific config file such as ~/.pythonrc.py or 
a site-wide site.py file.  You can read up a bit at

   http://docs.python.org/library/site.html
   http://docs.python.org/library/user.html

I believe the way to test this is to start Python with either the 
-s or -S option (or both) to disable looking for user or site 
modules.  Also check if you have some crazy value set for 
$PYTHONSTARTUP.

   http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#cmdoption-S

My guess is that something in one of these places is triggering 
the hang until you kill that with a ^C after which you get the 
requested prompt.

Hope this helps,

-tkc




From davea at ieee.org  Sun Feb 14 22:16:51 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:16:51 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>,
	<a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>,
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <4B78BCA3.4070801@ieee.org>

Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:
> Dear Chris,
>
> One of the machines I tested my app in is 64 bit and happened the same. The RAM consumed by the OS and other processes is already included in the 2.2 I'm telling... my app enters to work when the RAM is already consumed in ~600 MB in the 3- 32 bit machines ... in the 64 bit machine was exactly the same only that it started a little bit higher because it has windows 7... so should I understand that there is nothing I can do for my app to use up more RAM?
>
> Thanks for your time and answer,
> Angelica.
>
>
> M. Angelica Echavarria-Gregory, M.Sc., E.I.
> Ph.D Candidate
> University of Miami
> Phone 305 284-3611
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Kaynor [ckaynor at zindagigames.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:44 PM
> To: Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: MemoryError, can I use more?
>
> A 32 bit app can only use 4 GB of memory itself (regardless of the amount of system ram), the OS claims some of this for the system, dlls occupy some of it, etc. As such, the app can only really use a smaller subset (generally between 2 to 3 GB, depending upon the app and the OS).
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica <m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu<mailto:m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu>> wrote:
> Dear group:
>
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
>
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...
>
> Thanks,
> Angelica.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
>   
There are three different limits at play here.  Since you're still not 
saying how you're "measuring" usage, we've all been guessing just which 
one you're hitting.  There's physical RAM, virtual address space, and 
swappable space (swapfile on disk).  Each reaches some limit in 
different ways.

And there are probably a dozen different ways to measure "memory use,"  
that get a dozen different answers.  If you say which one you're using, 
that gives "exactly 2.2 GB,"  maybe someone will be familiar with that 
particular approach, and its meaning.

DaveA



From tgrav at mac.com  Sun Feb 14 22:39:13 2010
From: tgrav at mac.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:39:13 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <4B78BCA3.4070801@ieee.org>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<4B78BCA3.4070801@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <5FB189C5-544D-4ADF-975C-1F32776C2DB5@mac.com>


On Feb 14, 2010, at 10:16 PM, Dave Angel wrote:

> There are three different limits at play here.  Since you're still not saying how you're "measuring" usage, we've all been guessing just which one you're hitting.  There's physical RAM, virtual address space, and swappable space (swapfile on disk).  Each reaches some limit in different ways.
> 
> And there are probably a dozen different ways to measure "memory use,"  that get a dozen different answers.  If you say which one you're using, that gives "exactly 2.2 GB,"  maybe someone will be familiar with that particular approach, and its meaning.

I ran into the same problem on Mac OS X and investigated it. My problem was that the program reached a memory error
after using 2.2GB of memory. Now what caused it specifically I am less sure of, but switching to a 64bit python on 
a 64bit OS (snow leopard) means that I now frequently move past this boundary (when I have enough memory of course :)

Tommy


From chiranjeevi.muttoju at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 03:50:33 2010
From: chiranjeevi.muttoju at gmail.com (chiranjeevi muttoju)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:50:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hi can any one please help me..
Message-ID: <997acf4f-cf71-4709-bb7a-d6ab68d4ec0f@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
when i'm installing the pytc(python wrapper for tokyo cabinet.) i'm
getting the fallowing error.. i'm getting this error for python2.6
only.. for python 2.4 its working fine..
---------------------------------------------
running install
running build
running build_ext
building 'pytc' extension
gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/pytc.o -L/usr/local/
lib -L. -ltokyocabinet -lpython2.6 -o build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/
pytc.so
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.6
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

---------------------------------------------

What is that error. if any body know please help me.. thank you.


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 04:11:18 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:11:18 +0100
Subject: hi can any one please help me..
In-Reply-To: <997acf4f-cf71-4709-bb7a-d6ab68d4ec0f@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <997acf4f-cf71-4709-bb7a-d6ab68d4ec0f@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlb301$t84$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* chiranjeevi muttoju:
> Hi,
> when i'm installing the pytc(python wrapper for tokyo cabinet.) i'm
> getting the fallowing error.. i'm getting this error for python2.6
> only.. for python 2.4 its working fine..
> ---------------------------------------------
> running install
> running build
> running build_ext
> building 'pytc' extension
> gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/pytc.o -L/usr/local/
> lib -L. -ltokyocabinet -lpython2.6 -o build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/
> pytc.so
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.6
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> What is that error. if any body know please help me.. thank you.

It means the compiler can't find the python2.6 library; it's not in any of the 
directories where gcc searches for libraries.

You can specify (additional) directories where gcc should search for libraries 
via the LIBRARY_PATH environment variable.

At least according to my MinGW documentation for Windows, but I assume that it's 
the same in Linux.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steve at lonetwin.net  Mon Feb 15 04:12:53 2010
From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:42:53 +0530
Subject: hi can any one please help me..
References: <997acf4f-cf71-4709-bb7a-d6ab68d4ec0f@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlb36l$t7h$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Hello,

On 02/15/2010 02:20 PM, chiranjeevi muttoju wrote:
> Hi,
> when i'm installing the pytc(python wrapper for tokyo cabinet.) i'm
> getting the fallowing error.. i'm getting this error for python2.6
> only.. for python 2.4 its working fine..
> ---------------------------------------------
> running install
> running build
> running build_ext
> building 'pytc' extension
> gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/pytc.o -L/usr/local/
> lib -L. -ltokyocabinet -lpython2.6 -o build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/
> pytc.so
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.6
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You need to install the python development libraries. For example if you are 
doing this on a Fedora or Red Hat Enterprise Linux system, execute the command:

$ yum install python-devel

...to install the necessary libraries.

cheers,
- steve


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 04:23:52 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 01:23:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Printing with raw_input
Message-ID: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Feb 15 05:11:20 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:11:20 +0100
Subject: Printing with raw_input
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Joan Miller wrote:

> Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?

You can test this yourself without reading the C source:

Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec  7 2009, 18:43:55)
[GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> class A:
...     def write(self, s):
...             sys.__stdout__.write(s.upper())
...
>>> sys.stdout = A()
>>> print "yadda"
YADDA
>>> raw_input("foo")
FOObar
'BAR'

Peter


From katrinewhiteson at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 05:32:36 2010
From: katrinewhiteson at gmail.com (katrine)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:32:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: trouble installing matplotlib - syslibroot: multiply specified
Message-ID: <13c961f8-ccbe-484d-b5ee-f620ef276f32@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Hope you guys don't mind a question about building matplotlib from a
biologist who wants to learn how to use python.

I am trying to install matplotlib on my mac with OS X 10.4.11, using
python 2.6.4 and Xcode 2.2.1. I have had a few fights with freetype
and Tkinter, and I think I've got those worked out. I have configured
and installed numpy, freetype, zlib, and libpng. But I am still
getting an error about multiply specified syslibroot  - does this make
sense to anyone? Maybe I need to change the PATH somehow? Or maybe
Xcode is not installed properly? (I am using the make.osx provided
with matplotlib, and I am including the top of the file as I am
running it here:

# build mpl into a local install dir with
PREFIX=/usr/local

MPLVERSION=0.99.1.1
PYVERSION=2.6
PYTHON=python${PYVERSION}
ZLIBVERSION=1.2.3
PNGVERSION=1.2.33
FREETYPEVERSION=2.3.7
MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.4

## You shouldn't need to configure past this point


CFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc -I${PREFIX}/include  -isysroot /Developer/
SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk"
LDFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc -L${PREFIX}/lib -syslibroot,/Developer/
SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk"


----------------------
******************
----------------------

Now here is what happens when I try to make the make.osx:

katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$ make -f make.osx mpl_build
export MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.4 &&\
export CFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/
include/freetype2 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk" &&\
export LDFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc -L/usr/local/lib -syslibroot,/
Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk" &&\
python2.6 setup.py build
============================================================================
BUILDING MATPLOTLIB
            matplotlib: 0.99.1.1
                python: 2.6.4 (r264:75821M, Oct 27 2009, 19:48:32)
[GCC
                        4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)]
              platform: darwin

REQUIRED DEPENDENCIES
                 numpy: 1.3.0
             freetype2: found, but unknown version (no pkg-config)
                        * WARNING: Could not find 'freetype2' headers
in any
                        * of '.', './freetype2'.

OPTIONAL BACKEND DEPENDENCIES
                libpng: found, but unknown version (no pkg-config)
                        * Could not find 'libpng' headers in any of
'.'
               Tkinter: Tkinter: 73770, Tk: 8.4, Tcl: 8.4
              wxPython: no
                        * wxPython not found
                  Gtk+: no
                        * Building for Gtk+ requires pygtk; you must
be able
                        * to "import gtk" in your build/install
environment
       Mac OS X native: yes
                    Qt: no
                   Qt4: no
                 Cairo: no



OPTIONAL DATE/TIMEZONE DEPENDENCIES
              datetime: present, version unknown
              dateutil: matplotlib will provide
                  pytz: matplotlib will provide
adding pytz

OPTIONAL USETEX DEPENDENCIES
                dvipng: no
           ghostscript: /bin/sh: line 1: gs: command not found
                 latex: no

[Edit setup.cfg to suppress the above messages]
============================================================================
pymods ['pylab']
packages ['matplotlib', 'matplotlib.backends',
'matplotlib.projections', 'mpl_toolkits', 'mpl_toolkits.mplot3d',
'mpl_toolkits.axes_grid', 'matplotlib.sphinxext',
'matplotlib.numerix', 'matplotlib.numerix.mlab',
'matplotlib.numerix.ma', 'matplotlib.numerix.linear_algebra',
'matplotlib.numerix.random_array', 'matplotlib.numerix.fft',
'matplotlib.delaunay', 'pytz', 'dateutil', 'dateutil/zoneinfo']
running build
running build_py
copying lib/matplotlib/mpl-data/matplotlibrc -> build/lib.macosx-10.4-
fat-2.6/matplotlib/mpl-data
copying lib/matplotlib/mpl-data/matplotlib.conf -> build/
lib.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/matplotlib/mpl-data
running build_ext
building 'matplotlib.ft2font' extension
c++ -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -g -
bundle -undefined dynamic_lookup -arch i386 -arch ppc -L/usr/local/lib
-syslibroot,/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -arch i386 -arch ppc -I/
usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -isysroot /Developer/
SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/src/ft2font.o
build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/src/mplutils.o build/temp.macosx-10.4-
fat-2.6/CXX/cxx_extensions.o build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/CXX/
cxxsupport.o build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/CXX/
IndirectPythonInterface.o build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/CXX/
cxxextensions.o -lfreetype -lz -lstdc++ -lm -o build/lib.macosx-10.4-
fat-2.6/matplotlib/ft2font.so
powerpc-apple-darwin8-g++-4.0.1: unrecognized option '-syslibroot,/
Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk'
i686-apple-darwin8-g++-4.0.1: unrecognized option '-syslibroot,/
Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk'
//usr/bin/ld: -usr/syslibroot: multiply specified
bincollect2: /ld: -syslibroot: multiply specified
ld returned 1 exit statuscollect2:
ld returned 1 exit status
lipo: can't open input file: /var/tmp//ccym1XU1.out (No such file or
directory)
error: command 'c++' failed with exit status 1
make: *** [mpl_build] Error 1
katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$ gcc -V
gcc: argument to `-V' is missing
katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$ which gcc
/usr/bin/gcc
katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$   c f yj ny
-bash: c: command not found
katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$ k/l
-bash: k/l: No such file or directory


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 06:20:10 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:20:10 +0100
Subject: trouble installing matplotlib - syslibroot: multiply specified
In-Reply-To: <13c961f8-ccbe-484d-b5ee-f620ef276f32@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <13c961f8-ccbe-484d-b5ee-f620ef276f32@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlbahl$jga$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* katrine:
> 
> Hope you guys don't mind a question about building matplotlib from a
> biologist who wants to learn how to use python.
> 
> I am trying to install matplotlib on my mac with OS X 10.4.11, using
> python 2.6.4 and Xcode 2.2.1. I have had a few fights with freetype
> and Tkinter, and I think I've got those worked out. I have configured
> and installed numpy, freetype, zlib, and libpng. But I am still
> getting an error about multiply specified syslibroot  - does this make
> sense to anyone?

Don't know if this will help, but I just googled "syslibroot", and it coughed up 
the following discussion:

   <url: http://lists.apple.com/archives/unix-porting/2005/Oct/msg00003.html>

Quoting from that thread: "Try not setting LDFLAGS.  Passing -isysroot to gcc 
might cause it to pass -isyslibroot to the linker if you're using gcc to link."


Cheers,

- Alf


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 06:39:57 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:39:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2497.1266065321.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9d348145-1dec-42cb-a4c3-408c9833a1bc@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 13 feb, 13:48, Dave Angel <da... at ieee.org> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 10:25 am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com>
> >> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >>> What strikes me is:
> >>> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> >>> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> >>> much).
>
> >> ? ? ? ? Which on its own does not mean much.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
> >> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
> >> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
> >> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
> >> to page swapping as soon.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
> >> user/1GB OS mode --
>
> > hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)
>
> >> it is mainly meant for server machines where there
> >> won't be many disjoint OS libraries loaded, but the server applications
> >> need lots of data space.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? What split does the Linux OS use? If it give 3GB to user space,
> >> while you'd start to page swap much soon, you'd also have 50% more
> >> virtual memory that can be allocated than under Windows.
> >> --
> >> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> >> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> > I will check this.....any advice on how to check this?
>
> > henk-jan
>
> As I posted in recent thread on Tutor,
>
> But the one you might want is a boot.ini option that tells the OS to
> only reserve 1gb for itself, and leave 3gb for user space. ?But there
> are tradeoffs, including the need to modify an application's executable
> to take advantage of it. ?And the whole system may run substantially
> slower, even when your're extended app isn't running. ?See links:
> ?http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx
>
> http://blogs.technet.com/askperf/archive/2007/03/23/memory-management...
>
> DaveA

Yes, you are right, i also would need to modify the executable.

the reason why I posted on this list was the hard crash of python -
which python really should not do I think. AFAICS there is no 'bug' in
my edi translator (runs OK on linux) - but it uses far to much
memory.....
For me, I am going to bring back the memory footprint of my edi
translator. Which should be fairly easy to do.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 06:40:11 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:40:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Printing with raw_input
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <d78cb048-338d-4eef-a5be-d971e65f43cf@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On 15 feb, 10:11, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> Joan Miller wrote:
> > Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?
>
> You can test this yourself without reading the C source:
>
> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec ?7 2009, 18:43:55)
> [GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> import sys
> >>> class A:
>
> ... ? ? def write(self, s):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? sys.__stdout__.write(s.upper())
> ...>>> sys.stdout = A()
> >>> print "yadda"
> YADDA
> >>> raw_input("foo")
>
> FOObar
> 'BAR'
>
> Peter

It was to display the output inside a GUI app. overriding
`sys.stdout`. And as `print` also uses internally `sys.stdout.write`
then can be used `print` the shell script and get the output too in
the GUI, cann't it?


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Feb 15 07:05:58 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:05:58 +0100
Subject: Printing with raw_input
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d78cb048-338d-4eef-a5be-d971e65f43cf@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlbda7$73r$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Joan Miller wrote:

>> > Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?

> It was to display the output inside a GUI app. overriding
> `sys.stdout`. And as `print` also uses internally `sys.stdout.write`
> then can be used `print` the shell script and get the output too in
> the GUI, cann't it?

It should be easy to collect data written with print and show it in a gui, 
but I can't see how you would integrate raw_input() into a gui app. 

As to shell scripts, you can invoke them via subprocess, or, if the script 
needs user interaction, via pexpect.

Peter


From chyavana at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 07:35:32 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:35:32 +0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
Message-ID: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>

Dear Folks,

I want to execute a command from within python using the subprocess module.

Coming from a Perl background, I thought I could use variable 
interpolation in strings, but found that this is neither supported nor 
the Python way. Accordingly, I am a little at sea about how to 
accomplish it.

I have stated what I am trying to do in the minimal example below:

---
import subprocess

width = 5
height = 30
colors = ['#abcdef]', '#456789']
filename = "/tmp/image.png"

# I want to get the equivalent of variable interpolation in Perl
# so that the command
#
# convert -size 5x30 gradient:#abcdef-#456789 /tmp/image.png
#
# is derived from the variables above
# and executed by subprocess.call() or subprocess.Popen()
# from within Python
#
# Note that the command "convert" is from the ImageMagick suite
# It exists and is executable by the shell;
# the remaining values are arguments.
# The command has been confirmed to execute correctly.
---

Thanks in advance.

Chandra


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 07:44:32 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:44:32 +0100
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlbfjg$pcp$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar:
> 
> width = 5
> height = 30
> colors = ['#abcdef]', '#456789']
> filename = "/tmp/image.png"
> 
> # I want to get the equivalent of variable interpolation in Perl
> # so that the command
> #
> # convert -size 5x30 gradient:#abcdef-#456789 /tmp/image.png
> #
> # is derived from the variables above

Assuming that the extra right square bracket in 'colors' is a typo, here's one way:

     s = "convert -size {w}x{h} gradient:{g1}-{g2} {f}".format(
         w = width, h = height, g1 = colors[0], g2 = colors[1], f = filename
         )


Cheers & hth.,

- ALf


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Feb 15 08:02:42 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:02:42 +0100
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:

> I want to execute a command from within python using the subprocess
> module.
> 
> Coming from a Perl background, I thought I could use variable
> interpolation in strings, but found that this is neither supported nor
> the Python way. Accordingly, I am a little at sea about how to
> accomplish it.

import subprocess

def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
            filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
    lookup = locals()
    assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
    subprocess.call("""\
convert
-size
{width}x{height}
gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
{filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())

convert()

Peter


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 08:11:32 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:41:32 +0530
Subject: Printing with raw_input
In-Reply-To: <hlbda7$73r$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d78cb048-338d-4eef-a5be-d971e65f43cf@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlbda7$73r$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002150511r2686a97cudb886f9688b4737e@mail.gmail.com>

raw_input uses sys.stderr I guess ?

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Joan Miller wrote:
>
> >> > Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?
>
> > It was to display the output inside a GUI app. overriding
> > `sys.stdout`. And as `print` also uses internally `sys.stdout.write`
> > then can be used `print` the shell script and get the output too in
> > the GUI, cann't it?
>
> It should be easy to collect data written with print and show it in a gui,
> but I can't see how you would integrate raw_input() into a gui app.
>
> As to shell scripts, you can invoke them via subprocess, or, if the script
> needs user interaction, via pexpect.
>
> Peter
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From katrinewhiteson at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 08:56:37 2010
From: katrinewhiteson at gmail.com (katrine)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 05:56:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: trouble installing matplotlib - syslibroot: multiply specified
References: <13c961f8-ccbe-484d-b5ee-f620ef276f32@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlbahl$jga$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <cf715ac1-a580-4a88-90eb-5100a7c00988@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 12:20 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * katrine:
>
>
>
> > Hope you guys don't mind a question about building matplotlib from a
> > biologist who wants to learn how to use python.
>
> > I am trying to install matplotlib on my mac with OS X 10.4.11, using
> > python 2.6.4 and Xcode 2.2.1. I have had a few fights with freetype
> > and Tkinter, and I think I've got those worked out. I have configured
> > and installed numpy, freetype, zlib, and libpng. But I am still
> > getting an error about multiply specified syslibroot  - does this make
> > sense to anyone?
>
> Don't know if this will help, but I just googled "syslibroot", and it coughed up
> the following discussion:
>
>    <url:http://lists.apple.com/archives/unix-porting/2005/Oct/msg00003.html>
>
> Quoting from that thread: "Try not setting LDFLAGS.  Passing -isysroot to gcc
> might cause it to pass -isyslibroot to the linker if you're using gcc to link."
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf

thanks! I managed to install an egg with easy_install, seems to work,
FINALLY!

thanks for your help,
Katrine


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 09:03:40 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:03:40 +0100
Subject: Replace various regex
In-Reply-To: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B79543C.5070709@sequans.com>

Martin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)
>
> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> f = open(fname, 'r')
> s = f.read()
>
> if CANHT:
>     s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> where CANHT might be
>
> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'
>
> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Martin
>   

I remove all lines containing things like 9*0.0 in your file, cause I 
don't know what they mean and how to handle them. These are not numbers.

import re

replace = {
    'snow_grnd' : (1, '99.99,'), # replace the 1st number by 99.99
    't_soil' : (2, '88.8,'), # replace the 2nd number by 88.88
    }

testBuffer = """
 0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759  !  stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
0.46                         !  snow_grnd
276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48  !  t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 !  lai(1:npft)
"""

outputBuffer = ''
for line in testBuffer.split('\n'):
    for key, (index, repl) in replace.items():
        if key in line:
            parameters = {
                'n' : '[\d\.]+', # given you example you have to change 
this one, I don't know what means 9*0.0 in your file
                'index' : index - 1,
            }
            # the following pattern will silently match any digit before 
the <index>th digit is found, and use a capturing parenthesis for the last
            pattern = 
'(\s*(?:(?:%(n)s)[,\s]+){0,%(index)s})(?:(%(n)s)[,\s]+)(.*!.*)' % 
parameters # regexp are sometimes a nightmare to read
            line = re.sub(pattern, r'\1 '+repl+r'\3' , line)
            break
    outputBuffer += line +'\n'

print outputBuffer



From starglider.dev at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:10:53 2010
From: starglider.dev at gmail.com (starglider develop)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:10:53 +0000
Subject: Talking with ebay using Python
Message-ID: <a7268e571002150610g8b28821q34ca600c7222a960@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I need a way of talking with the eBay API:
Made search,
Ask for item status.

What can it be done, and where can I get the info.

Thank you in advance for your help.
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From acl at info.fundp.ac.be  Mon Feb 15 09:11:37 2010
From: acl at info.fundp.ac.be (Anthony Cleve)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:11:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CFP - SLE'2010
Message-ID: <5d5f260a-71e2-46a1-80ee-ba6a4405bc7e@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

CALL FOR PAPERS

3rd International Conference on Software Language Engineering

SLE 2010
12-13 Oct 2010 -- Eindhoven, The Netherlands

http://planet-sl.org/sle2010/

Co-located with the International Conference on Generative
Programming and Component Engineering (GPCE'10).
------------------------------------------------------------
DATES

Jun 28: Abstract submission (required)
Jul 05: Paper submission (midnight Apia Samoa time)
Aug 27: Author notification
Sep 17: Paper submission for online proceedings
Oct 12-13: SLE 2010
Dec 03: Camera-ready copy submission for post-proceedings
------------------------------------------------------------
Software language engineering is devoted to topics related
to artificial languages in software engineering. The foremost
mission of the International Conference on Software Language
Engineering (SLE) is to encourage and organize communication
between communities that traditionally have looked at soft-
ware languages from different, more specialized, and yet
complementary perspectives. Thus, technologies, methods,
experiments and case studies from modelware, grammarware,
and ontologyware serving the objectives of software languages
are of particular relevance to SLE.

We invite high-quality submissions to all conference tracks.
Submissions must be PDF files following the Springer LNCS
style and will be managed using the EasyChair submission system.
Please check the conference web site for further information.

New at SLE 2010 is a Doctoral Symposium that will provide
a supportive yet questioning setting in which PhD students
can present their work, including goals, methods, and
preliminary results. The Symposium aims to provide students
with useful guidance and feedback on various aspects of their
research from established researchers and the other student
attendees.

Please forward this call to anyone who might be interested.

http://planet-sl.org/sle2010/
------------------------------------------------------------
PAPER SUBMISSION

Submitted papers must be original work and must not be
previously published in, currently submitted to, or currently
in consideration for any journal, book, conference, or
workshop. Each submitted paper will be reviewed closely by
at least three members of the program committee. Accepted
papers will be distributed at the conference via the online
proceedings as well as published in the post-proceedings,
which will appear in the Springer Lecture Notes in Computer
Science (LNCS) series. Authors will have the opportunity
to revise their accepted paper(s) for the pre- and post-
proceedings. For an accepted paper to appear in the proceedings,
at least one author must attend the event and present the work.
------------------------------------------------------------
RESEARCH PAPERS

Research papers should report a substantial research contribution
to SLE and/or a successful application of SLE techniques.  We
solicit high-quality contributions in the area of SLE ranging
from theoretical and conceptual contributions to tools, techniques,
and frameworks that support the aforementioned lifecycle activities.
We list examples of tools, techniques, applications, and problems of
interest to clarify the types of contributes that we seek:

* Formalisms used in designing and specifying languages and
tools that analyze such language descriptions
* Language implementation techniques
* Program and model transformation tools
* Composition, integration, and mapping tools for managing
different aspects of software languages or different
manifestations of a given language
* Transformations and transformation languages between
languages and models
* Language evolution
* Approaches to elicitation, specification, or verification
of requirements for software languages
* Language development frameworks, methodologies, techniques,
best practices, and tools for the broader language lifecycle
covering phases such as analysis, testing , and documentation.
* Design challenges in SLE
* Applications of languages including innovative domain-specific
languages or "little" languages

The preceding list is not exclusive or exhaustive.  Visit
the conference web site for more information about the scope
and topics of interest of SLE, or contact the program co-chairs
with questions.

Page limit: 20
------------------------------------------------------------
SHORT PAPERS

Short paper may describe interesting or thought-provoking
concepts that are not yet fully developed or evaluated, make
an initial contribution to challenging research issues in SLE,
or discuss and analyze controversial issues in the field.

Page limit: 10
------------------------------------------------------------
TOOL DEMONSTRATION PAPERS

Because of SLE's ample interest in tools, we seek papers
that present software tools related to the field of SLE.
These papers will accompany a tool demonstration to be given
at the conference. The selection criteria include the
originality of the tool, its innovative aspects, the relevance
of the tool to SLE, and the maturity of the tool. Submissions
may also include an appendix (that will not be published)
containing additional screen-shots and discussion of
the proposed demonstration.

Page limit: 10
------------------------------------------------------------
MINI-TUTORIAL PAPERS

SLE is composed of various research areas, such as grammarware,
modelware, language schemas, and semantic technologies. The
cross product of attendees at SLE creates a situation where
the contribution from one session may be difficult to
understand by those not initiated to the area. To help unite
the various communities of SLE 2010, we solicit mini-tutorials
that provide discussion points for mapping common ideas between
related and complementary research topics of SLE.

A mini-tutorial submission should be between 15 and 20 pages.
------------------------------------------------------------
GENERAL CHAIR

    Mark van den Brand
    Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands
    m.g.j.v.d.brand at tue.nl

PROGRAM CO-CHAIRS

    Brian Malloy
    Clemson University, USA
    malloy at cs.clemson.edu

    Steffen Staab
    University of Koblenz-Landau, Germany
    staab at uni-koblenz.de

DOCTORAL SYMPOSIUM CHAIRS

    Eric van Wyk
    University of Minnesota, USA
    evw at cs.umn.edu

    Steffen Zschaler
    Lancaster University, UK
    szschaler at acm.org

ORGANIZATION COMMITTEE

    Anthony Cleve (Publicity Co-Chair)
    INRIA Lille, France

    Nicholas Kraft (Publicity Co-Chair)
    University of Alabama, USA

    Arjan van der Meer (Web Chair)
    Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

    Alexander Serebrenik (Finance Chair)
    Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

PROGRAM COMMITTEE

    Uwe Assmann, Dresden University of Technology, Germany
    Colin Atkinson, University of Mannheim , Germany
    Sonia Bergamaschi, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, Italy
    John Boyland, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA
    Jordi Cabot, University of Toronto, Canada
    Silvana Castano, University of Milan, Italy
    Anthony Cleve, INRIA Lille, France
    Michael Collard, University of Akron, USA
    Charles Consel, LaBRI / INRIA, France
    Stephen Edwards, Columbia University, USA
    Gregor Engels, University of Paderborn, Germany
    Aldo Gangemi, Semantic Technology Laboratory, Italy
    Chiara Ghidini, FBK-irst, Italy
    Jeff Gray, University of Alabama, USA
    Peter Haase, University of Karlsruhe, Germany
    Gorel Hedin, Lund University, Sweden
    Geert-Jan Houben, Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands
    Adrian Johnstone, University of London, UK
    Nicholas Kraft, University of Alabama, USA
    Ivan Kurtev, University of Twente, The Netherlands
    Julia Lawall, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
    Marjan Mernik, University of Maribor, Slovenia
    Pierre-Etienne Moreau, Ecole des Mines in Nancy, France
    Peter Mosses, Swansea  University, UK
    Ralf M??ller, Hamburg University of Technolog, Germany
    Istvan Nagy, ASML, The Netherlands
    Daniel Oberle, SAP Research, Germany
    Richard Paige, University of York, UK
    Jeff Z. Pan, University of Aberdeen, UK
    Bijan Parsia, University of Manchester, UK
    James Power, National University of Ireland, Ireland
    Alexander Serebrenik, Eindhoven University of Technology, The
Netherlands
    Fernando Silva Parreiras, University of Koblenz-Landau, Germany
    Anthony Sloane, Macquarie University, Australia
    Eleni Stroulia, University of Alberta, Canada
    York Sure, University of Koblenz-Landau, Germany
    Gabriele Taentzer, Technical University of Berlin, Germany
    Jurgen Vinju, CWI, The Netherlands
    Eelco Visser, Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands
    Steffen Zschaler, Lancaster University, UK


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:13:17 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:13:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2561.1266242637.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b1fed01-e0bf-4240-bdef-f817996a90d6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 2:03 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Martin wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> > a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> > 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
> > 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)
>
> > Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> > would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> > numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> > any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> > The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> > f = open(fname, 'r')
> > s = f.read()
>
> > if CANHT:
> >     s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
> > canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> > where CANHT might be
>
> > CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'
>
> > But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Martin
>
> I remove all lines containing things like 9*0.0 in your file, cause I
> don't know what they mean and how to handle them. These are not numbers.
>
> import re
>
> replace = {
>     'snow_grnd' : (1, '99.99,'), # replace the 1st number by 99.99
>     't_soil' : (2, '88.8,'), # replace the 2nd number by 88.88
>     }
>
> testBuffer = """
>  0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759  !  stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
> 0.46                         !  snow_grnd
> 276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48  !  t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
> 200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 !  lai(1:npft)
> """
>
> outputBuffer = ''
> for line in testBuffer.split('\n'):
>     for key, (index, repl) in replace.items():
>         if key in line:
>             parameters = {
>                 'n' : '[\d\.]+', # given you example you have to change
> this one, I don't know what means 9*0.0 in your file
>                 'index' : index - 1,
>             }
>             # the following pattern will silently match any digit before
> the <index>th digit is found, and use a capturing parenthesis for the last
>             pattern =
> '(\s*(?:(?:%(n)s)[,\s]+){0,%(index)s})(?:(%(n)s)[,\s]+)(.*!.*)' %
> parameters # regexp are sometimes a nightmare to read
>             line = re.sub(pattern, r'\1 '+repl+r'\3' , line)
>             break
>     outputBuffer += line +'\n'
>
> print outputBuffer

Thanks I will take a look. I think perhaps I was having a very slow
day when I posted and realised I could solve the original problem more
efficiently and the problem wasn't perhaps as I first perceived. It is
enough to match the tag to the right of the "!" sign and use this to
adjust what lies on the left of the "!" sign. Currently I have
this...if anyone thinks there is a neater solution I am happy to hear
it. Many thanks.

variable_tag = 'lai'
variable = [200.0, 60.030, 0.060, 0.030, 0.030]

# generate adjustment string
variable = ",".join(["%s" % i for i in variable]) + ' !  ' +
variable_tag

# call func to adjust input file
adjustStandardPftParams(variable, variable_tag, in_param_fname,
out_param_fname)

and the inside of this func looks like this

def adjustStandardPftParams(self, variable, variable_tag, in_fname,
out_fname):

    f = open(in_fname, 'r')
    of = open(out_fname, 'w')
    pattern_found = False

    while True:
        line = f.readline()
        if not line:
            break
        pattern = re.findall(r"!\s+"+variable_tag, line)
        if pattern:
            print 'yes'
            print >> of, "%s" % variable
	    pattern_found = True

        if pattern_found:
            pattern_found = False
        else:
            of.write(line)

    f.close()
    of.close()

    return


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 09:27:40 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:27:40 +0100
Subject: Replace various regex
In-Reply-To: <7b1fed01-e0bf-4240-bdef-f817996a90d6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2561.1266242637.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7b1fed01-e0bf-4240-bdef-f817996a90d6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7959DC.2040202@sequans.com>

Martin wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2:03 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> Martin wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi,
>>>       
>>> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
>>> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>>>       
>>> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
>>> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)
>>>       
>>> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
>>> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
>>> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
>>> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>>>       
>>> The file read in is an ascii file.
>>>       
>>> f = open(fname, 'r')
>>> s = f.read()
>>>       
>>> if CANHT:
>>>     s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
>>> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>>>       
>>> where CANHT might be
>>>       
>>> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'
>>>       
>>> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>>>       
>>> Thanks.
>>>       
>>> Martin
>>>       
>> I remove all lines containing things like 9*0.0 in your file, cause I
>> don't know what they mean and how to handle them. These are not numbers.
>>
>> import re
>>
>> replace = {
>>     'snow_grnd' : (1, '99.99,'), # replace the 1st number by 99.99
>>     't_soil' : (2, '88.8,'), # replace the 2nd number by 88.88
>>     }
>>
>> testBuffer = """
>>  0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759  !  stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
>> 0.46                         !  snow_grnd
>> 276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48  !  t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
>> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
>> 200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 !  lai(1:npft)
>> """
>>
>> outputBuffer = ''
>> for line in testBuffer.split('\n'):
>>     for key, (index, repl) in replace.items():
>>         if key in line:
>>             parameters = {
>>                 'n' : '[\d\.]+', # given you example you have to change
>> this one, I don't know what means 9*0.0 in your file
>>                 'index' : index - 1,
>>             }
>>             # the following pattern will silently match any digit before
>> the <index>th digit is found, and use a capturing parenthesis for the last
>>             pattern =
>> '(\s*(?:(?:%(n)s)[,\s]+){0,%(index)s})(?:(%(n)s)[,\s]+)(.*!.*)' %
>> parameters # regexp are sometimes a nightmare to read
>>             line = re.sub(pattern, r'\1 '+repl+r'\3' , line)
>>             break
>>     outputBuffer += line +'\n'
>>
>> print outputBuffer
>>     
>
> Thanks I will take a look. I think perhaps I was having a very slow
> day when I posted and realised I could solve the original problem more
> efficiently and the problem wasn't perhaps as I first perceived. It is
> enough to match the tag to the right of the "!" sign and use this to
> adjust what lies on the left of the "!" sign. Currently I have
> this...if anyone thinks there is a neater solution I am happy to hear
> it. Many thanks.
>
> variable_tag = 'lai'
> variable = [200.0, 60.030, 0.060, 0.030, 0.030]
>
> # generate adjustment string
> variable = ",".join(["%s" % i for i in variable]) + ' !  ' +
> variable_tag
>
> # call func to adjust input file
> adjustStandardPftParams(variable, variable_tag, in_param_fname,
> out_param_fname)
>
> and the inside of this func looks like this
>
> def adjustStandardPftParams(self, variable, variable_tag, in_fname,
> out_fname):
>
>     f = open(in_fname, 'r')
>     of = open(out_fname, 'w')
>     pattern_found = False
>
>     while True:
>         line = f.readline()
>         if not line:
>             break
>         pattern = re.findall(r"!\s+"+variable_tag, line)
>         if pattern:
>             print 'yes'
>             print >> of, "%s" % variable
> 	    pattern_found = True
>
>         if pattern_found:
>             pattern_found = False
>         else:
>             of.write(line)
>
>     f.close()
>     of.close()
>
>     return
>   

Are you sure a simple
if variable_tag in line:
    # do some stuff

is not enough ?

People will usually prefer to write

for line in open(in_fname, 'r') :

instead of your ugly while loop ;-)


JM


From exallion.long at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:31:39 2010
From: exallion.long at gmail.com (Mug)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:31:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: constructor overwrite
Message-ID: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

hi ,i had a problem on constructor overwrite:
i have something like:

class obj:
def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
    if y is None:
          self.x=x
    else:
          self.y=y
so i can call :
objet = obj()  # x=100 y=None
or
objet = obj(40) # x= 40 y=None

but if i do :
objet = obj('not cool') #x='not cool' y=None
since x is not typed .

i am waiting for a result:
objet = obj('not cool') #x=100 y='not cool'
as they do in C++ or java.
is there a way to do it?
thanks


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:41:53 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:41:53 +0000
Subject: constructor overwrite
References: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2iq9yk1ce.fsf@googlemail.com>

Mug <exallion.long at gmail.com> writes:

> hi ,i had a problem on constructor overwrite:
> i have something like:
>
> class obj:
> def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
>     if y is None:
>           self.x=x
>     else:
>           self.y=y
> so i can call :
> objet = obj()  # x=100 y=None
> or
> objet = obj(40) # x= 40 y=None
>
> but if i do :
> objet = obj('not cool') #x='not cool' y=None
> since x is not typed .
>
> i am waiting for a result:
> objet = obj('not cool') #x=100 y='not cool'
> as they do in C++ or java.
> is there a way to do it?
> thanks

Your problem doesn't seem very well defined (e.g. do you ever call obj
with two arguments?), but as I understand it you can do this:

  def __init__(self, x=100):
      if isinstance(x, int):
         self.x, self.y = x, None
      else:
         self.x, self.y = None, x

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 09:58:19 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:58:19 -0500
Subject: constructor overwrite
In-Reply-To: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlbnfl$r13$1@ger.gmane.org>

Mug wrote:
> hi ,i had a problem on constructor overwrite:
> i have something like:
> 
> class obj:
> def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
>     if y is None:
>           self.x=x
>     else:
>           self.y=y
> so i can call :
> objet = obj()  # x=100 y=None
> or
> objet = obj(40) # x= 40 y=None
> 
> but if i do :
> objet = obj('not cool') #x='not cool' y=None
> since x is not typed .
> 
> i am waiting for a result:
> objet = obj('not cool') #x=100 y='not cool'
> as they do in C++ or java.
> is there a way to do it?
> thanks

You could check the type(s) of the argument(s) in your code, if you
want, but Python does not support signature analysis, dynamic method
dispatch or static typing. You can do

object = obj("y='not cool')

but I doubt this is what you want. Your post raises a couple of thier
points.

First, __init__ is *not* the constructor. By the time it is called
creation of the new object is already complete, and __init__() (as its
name suggests) merely initializes it. In Python 2's "new-style" classes,
and in Python 3, construction is performed by the class's __new__() method.

Secondly, it seems a little strange that you are happy to create
different instances, in some of which self.y is not initialized and in
others self.x is not initialized. You may have a good reason for doing
this, I merely point it out as a potential cause of AttributeError
exceptions.

regards
 Steve

regards
 Steve

-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Feb 15 10:05:04 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:05:04 +0100
Subject: constructor overwrite
In-Reply-To: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b79629f$0$685$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Mug a ?crit :
> hi ,i had a problem on constructor overwrite:
> i have something like:
> 
> class obj:
> def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
>     if y is None:
>           self.x=x
>     else:
>           self.y=y

With such an initializer, you'll have instances with an attribute 'y' 
and no attribute 'x', and instances with an attribute 'x' and no 
attribute 'y' :

 >>> class Obj(object):
...     def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
...         if y is None: self.x = x
...         else: self.y = y
...
 >>> objx = Obj()
 >>> objx.x
100
 >>> objx.y
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'Obj' object has no attribute 'y'
 >>> objy = Obj(y='foo')
 >>> objy.x
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'Obj' object has no attribute 'x'
 >>> objy.y
'foo'
 >>>


Are you *sure* this is what you want ?

> so i can call :
> objet = obj()  # x=100 y=None
> or
> objet = obj(40) # x= 40 y=None
> 
> but if i do :
> objet = obj('not cool') #x='not cool' y=None

What else would you expect ???

> since x is not typed .

'x' is a name, and names are indeed "untyped". Now the object bound to 
name 'x' is actually typed.

> i am waiting for a result:
> objet = obj('not cool') #x=100 y='not cool'
> as they do in C++ or java.

Python is neither C++ nor Java (nor Pascal nor Lisp nor 
<yourfavoritelanguagehere> FWIW), so trying to forcefit C++/Java idioms 
will at best lead you to pain and frustation. Just like trying to 
forcefit Python idioms in C++ or Java (or Pascal or Lisp etc....).

> is there a way to do it?

objet = obj(y='not cool')

Now if you could explain the problem you're trying to solve instead of 
the solution you thought would solve it, we might eventually provide 
more help.


From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:29:05 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:29:05 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
Message-ID: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi,

i wanted to ask how you guys structure your code.
I mainly have scripts that automate small tasks.
These scripts use a common set of utility code.
My code is structured like this, for example:

script_1.py
script_2.py
script_3.py
tools\
|----->__init__.py
|----->logutils.py
|----->mailutils.py

I was thinking of putting code in seperate directories because the number
of scripts grows fast and i want to keep it clean.
Something like this:

script_1.py
tools\
|----->__init__.py
|----->logutils.py
|----->mailutils.py
database\
|----->__init__.py
|----->script_2.py
|----->script_3.py

However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a script in there,
how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within the database subdirectory?
This fails:
    from tools.logutils import logger

 Thanks,
 Benedict



From python at bdurham.com  Mon Feb 15 10:43:22 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:43:22 -0500
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
Message-ID: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python
2.6.4?

Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular
expressions as validation criteria. If a user enters a
pathological regular expression, we would like to timeout the
evaluation of this expression after a short period of time.

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From chyavana at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:48:02 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:48:02 +0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4B796CB2.2000302@gmail.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> import subprocess
> 
> def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
>             filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
>     lookup = locals()
>     assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
>     subprocess.call("""\
> convert
> -size
> {width}x{height}
> gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
> {filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())
> 
> convert()
> 
> Peter

Thank you. It works. Now I need to understand why and am able to follow 
what you are doing part of the way:

1. Assign default values in the function definition.

2. Store the variables existing in the local namespace in the list lookup.

3. Assert that there are no newlines in the values in lookup converted 
to strings. (Why? Is this because of splitlines() later on?)

4. Assemble a string (array?) for the subprocess.call argument using the 
  format string syntax (section 8.1.3 et seq. of the Python 
documentation for 2.6.4). Your example works with  default option of 
shell=False for subprocess.call().

5. I am unable to decipher how you got to format(**lookup).splitlines())
especially the **prefix part, although I guess that splitlines() is 
dishing out the arguments one by one from each line in the 
subprocess.call argument.

Any correction of (1) to (4) and an explanation of (5) would be most 
appreciated.

All in all, your code is a magnificent example of wrapping the function 
within python. This is the first time I have seen something like this.

Thank you very much.

Chandra


From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Feb 15 10:59:05 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:59:05 -0500
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B796F49.9020102@optimum.net>

On 2/15/2010 7:35 AM, R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> I want to execute a command from within python using the subprocess module.
>
> Coming from a Perl background, I thought I could use variable
> interpolation in strings, but found that this is neither supported

Yes, it is: see the use of string.Template below.

> ... nor
> the Python way.

That right -- it isn't the Python way. Python offers two basic 
alternatives. Alf already presented the use of the "new" format() method 
of string objects. I think "traditional" Python string formatting might 
be what you want in this case:

   colors = ['#abcdef', '#456789']
   format_string = "convert -size 5x30 gradient:%s-%s /tmp/image.png"
   cmd_string = format_string % tuple(colors)

... or better, by making *colors* a tuple instead of a list ...

   colors = ('#abcdef', '#456789')
   format_string = "convert -size 5x30 gradient:%s-%s /tmp/image.png"
   cmd_string = format_string % colors

As Peter demonstrated, you need to use split() on *cmd_string* when you 
send the command to subprocess.call().

Now if you *really* miss using Perl, try this:

   c1, c2 = ('#abcdef', '#456789')
   template = string.Template(
               "convert -size 5x30 gradient:$c1-$c2 /tmp/image.png")
   cmd_string = template.substitute(locals())

Not worth the trouble, IMHO.

Refs:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/typesseq-strings.html
http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/node40.html

HTH,
John


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 10:59:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:59:22 -0500
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
In-Reply-To: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B796F5A.40405@holdenweb.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
>  
> Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular expressions
> as validation criteria. If a user enters a pathological regular
> expression, we would like to timeout the evaluation of this expression
> after a short period of time.
>  
Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an operation
if it takes too much time.

One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.

This group being what it is you are likely to receive other, better
suggestions too.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 10:59:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:59:22 -0500
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
In-Reply-To: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B796F5A.40405@holdenweb.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
>  
> Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular expressions
> as validation criteria. If a user enters a pathological regular
> expression, we would like to timeout the evaluation of this expression
> after a short period of time.
>  
Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an operation
if it takes too much time.

One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.

This group being what it is you are likely to receive other, better
suggestions too.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From pxrepreza at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:06:00 2010
From: pxrepreza at gmail.com (Paulo Repreza)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:06:00 -0500
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
Message-ID: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish, I don't
know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going to help me.

The script:

# Import modules random for function randint

import random

# Generating a constant.

var = 65

# Generating a random number.
ranum = random.randint(1,100)

#Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
while var != ranum:
    if var == ranum:
        print var, 'equals to:', ranum
    else:
        print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum

########## End of Script ###########


What I'm trying to do is to print the new value that ranum generates if the
condition is not met. So far if you run the script it prints the same value
over and over again, making in an infinite loop. What can I do in order to
print out the new value generated every time the condition is not met?

Thanks!

Paulo Repreza
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 11:06:49 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:06:49 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>

Benedict Verheyen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i wanted to ask how you guys structure your code.
> I mainly have scripts that automate small tasks.
> These scripts use a common set of utility code.
> My code is structured like this, for example:
>
> script_1.py
> script_2.py
> script_3.py
> tools\
> |----->__init__.py
> |----->logutils.py
> |----->mailutils.py
>
> I was thinking of putting code in seperate directories because the number
> of scripts grows fast and i want to keep it clean.
> Something like this:
>
> script_1.py
> tools\
> |----->__init__.py
> |----->logutils.py
> |----->mailutils.py
> database\
> |----->__init__.py
> |----->script_2.py
> |----->script_3.py
>
> However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a script in there,
> how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within the database subdirectory?
> This fails:
>     from tools.logutils import logger
>
>  Thanks,
>  Benedict
>
>   
Hi,

1/ Provide the output of the error so we can provide some useful help.
2/ Embed your structure into a package. Names like 'tools', 'lib', 
'mail', 'log' are too generic and will clash with other badly designed 
module/package names. Choose a name for you package, and use it with 
absolute imports e.g :
from myBeautifulPackage.tools.logutil import logger
3/ make sure your working copy of myBeautifulPackage is in your PYTHONPATH.

JM







From chyavana at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:11:36 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:11:36 +0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4B797238.2090007@gmail.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> import subprocess
> 
> def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
>             filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
>     lookup = locals()
>     assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
>     subprocess.call("""\
> convert
> -size
> {width}x{height}
> gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
> {filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())
> 
> convert()
> 
> Peter

One other question I forgot to ask is this why is there a terminal 
backslash in

> subprocess.call("""\

Removing the backslash makes the function fail.

I wonder why, because """ is supposed to allow multi-line strings. I am 
sorry if this sounds obtuse but that backslash baffles me.


From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:15:21 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:15:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
Message-ID: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Hello!

I am newbie mastering test driven development. I can't clarify myself
which mock library to use.
There are number of them and which one do you prefer?

Two libraries that attracted my attention are:
* minimock
* dingus
As for me the latest one, dingus, is the easiest (see this screencast:
http://vimeo.com/3949077   ), but it has very few downloads from pypi,
so it scares me a little.
Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
understand fully how minimock works.

What are your suggestions?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 11:17:39 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:17:39 +0100
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
In-Reply-To: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7973A3.3040407@sequans.com>

Paulo Repreza wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish, I 
> don't know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going to 
> help me.
>
> The script:
>
> # Import modules random for function randint
>
> import random
>
> # Generating a constant.
>
> var = 65
>
> # Generating a random number.
> ranum = random.randint(1,100)
>
> #Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
> while var != ranum:
>     if var == ranum:
>         print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>     else:
>         print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
>
> ########## End of Script ###########
>
>
> What I'm trying to do is to print the new value that ranum generates 
> if the condition is not met. So far if you run the script it prints 
> the same value over and over again, making in an infinite loop. What 
> can I do in order to print out the new value generated every time the 
> condition is not met?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Paulo Repreza   
in your script you generate the random number only once, no wonder it 
keep being the same value over & over.

# Initialize ranum with a random number
ranum = random.randint(1,100)

#Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
while var != ranum:
    if var == ranum:
        print var, 'equals to:', ranum
    else:
        print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
    ranum = random.randint(1,100) # generate a new number, that's the 
missing line in your script

JM



From mmm286 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:18:50 2010
From: mmm286 at gmail.com (mierdatutis mi)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:18:50 +0100
Subject: get a field
Message-ID: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have this:

pe="
http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml
"


I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml

But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.

Could you help me how could I do extract this in python?

Many thanks and sorry for my English!
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From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:27:41 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:27:41 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>
References: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hlbsls$ev5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
<snip>

> Hi,
> 
> 1/ Provide the output of the error so we can provide some useful help.
> 2/ Embed your structure into a package. Names like 'tools', 'lib',
> 'mail', 'log' are too generic and will clash with other badly designed
> module/package names. Choose a name for you package, and use it with
> absolute imports e.g :
> from myBeautifulPackage.tools.logutil import logger
> 3/ make sure your working copy of myBeautifulPackage is in your PYTHONPATH.
> 
> JM

Hi,

the error i get is this:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "update_tax_responsible.py", line 18, in <module>
    from tools.logutils import logger
ImportError: No module named tools.logutils

As to your comments on putting everything in a package, that's the whole problem,
it are all scripts where only a few of them are related and they all use
one or more modules that are located in the tools directory.
In that tools subdirectory i have a py file for typical file functions, time functions,
and so on. For instance, the tools\fileutils.py file contains amongst others
a function that calculates the size of a directory.

If i understood correctly, your suggestion is to put the utility files in
the tools subdirectory in a seperate package and put that package on the python path
so it can be shared by all scripts.
I should then further structure the scripts by putting scripts together.

But since the functions in tools are really utility functions for common tasks,
what would a meaningfule package name be?
The scripts are really diverse for instance, one of the scripts will
check the names of subdirectories made by employees, another will send mail
if people forget to fill in certain fields in a database and so on.

That's one of the reasons why i'm having a hard time structering it.


Regards,
Benedict



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Feb 15 11:30:29 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:30:29 +0100
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2571.1266250669.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2571.1266250669.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7976a3$0$24284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
> Paulo Repreza wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish, I 
>> don't know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going to 
>> help me.

(snip - problem already addressed by Jean-Michel...)

>> while var != ranum:
>>     if var == ranum:

Note that this branch will never be executed - the condition in the 
while statement make sure var != ranum in the while block.

>>         print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>>     else:
>>         print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
>>


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:30:59 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:30:59 -0500
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>
References: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <13868D3D-76E6-4F97-8743-FC5479DFB74E@gmail.com>


On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> 3/ make sure your working copy of myBeautifulPackage is in your PYTHONPATH.

Or, make a simple setup.py which imports distribute or setuptools and use:

	# python setup.py develop

which will put your code into the PYTHONPATH by virtue of a link inside your site-packages.

First one I found googling for "setup.py develop" : https://www.siafoo.net/article/77

There's a typo in the code of section 1.2 (parenthesis at the end of import, wrong), but the basic idea is there.

S



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 11:31:58 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:31:58 -0500
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <4B797238.2090007@gmail.com>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4B797238.2090007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlbstu$f9g$1@ger.gmane.org>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
>> import subprocess
>>
>> def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
>>             filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
>>     lookup = locals()
>>     assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
>>     subprocess.call("""\
>> convert
>> -size
>> {width}x{height}
>> gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
>> {filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())
>>
>> convert()
>>
>> Peter
> 
> One other question I forgot to ask is this why is there a terminal
> backslash in
> 
>> subprocess.call("""\
> 
> Removing the backslash makes the function fail.
> 
> I wonder why, because """ is supposed to allow multi-line strings. I am
> sorry if this sounds obtuse but that backslash baffles me.

It does, but a leading newline would cause the splitlines() result to
start with an empty word - the backslash just causes the interpreter to
ignore the newline immediately following, rather than including it in
the string literal's value.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 11:35:16 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:35:16 -0500
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
In-Reply-To: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlbt44$f9g$2@ger.gmane.org>

Paulo Repreza wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish, I
> don't know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going to
> help me.
> 
> The script:
> 
> # Import modules random for function randint
> 
> import random
> 
> # Generating a constant.
> 
> var = 65
> 
> # Generating a random number.
> ranum = random.randint(1,100)
> 
> #Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
> while var != ranum:
>     if var == ranum:

The "if" condition can never be true, since if it were then the loop
would have just terminated before starting this iteration!

>         print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>     else:
>         print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
> 
Shouldn't there be something here to set ranum to a new value? Otherwise
the same value will be there the next time around ...

> ########## End of Script ###########
> 
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to print the new value that ranum generates if
> the condition is not met. So far if you run the script it prints the
> same value over and over again, making in an infinite loop. What can I
> do in order to print out the new value generated every time the
> condition is not met?
> 
> Thanks!

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/
d



From chyavana at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:36:44 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:36:44 +0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <hlbfjg$pcp$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbfjg$pcp$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B79781C.50205@gmail.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar:
>>
>> width = 5
>> height = 30
>> colors = ['#abcdef]', '#456789']
>> filename = "/tmp/image.png"
>>
>> # I want to get the equivalent of variable interpolation in Perl
>> # so that the command
>> #
>> # convert -size 5x30 gradient:#abcdef-#456789 /tmp/image.png
>> #
>> # is derived from the variables above
> 
> Assuming that the extra right square bracket in 'colors' is a typo, 
> here's one way:
> 
>     s = "convert -size {w}x{h} gradient:{g1}-{g2} {f}".format(
>         w = width, h = height, g1 = colors[0], g2 = colors[1], f = filename
>         )
> 
> 
> Cheers & hth.,
> 
> - ALf

Thanks, Alf. It works if I use it so:

subprocess.call(s, shell=True)

and I think that is because s is a single string assembled in almost the 
variable interpolation fashion of Perl. It does not work with the 
default shell=False argument, presumably because the arguments are not 
split into separate strings (something that was horrible to do by hand 
using the %s and %() syntax that I had tried out previously).

I think that you and Peter have, between you, shown me two ways of using 
subprocess.call(): one with shell=True and the other with shell = False.

Thanks.

Chandra


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:39:36 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:39:36 +0000
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2571.1266250669.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2eikmjvw7.fsf@googlemail.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> writes:

> Paulo Repreza wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish,
>> I don't know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going
>> to help me.
>>
>> The script:
>>
>> # Import modules random for function randint
>>
>> import random
>>
>> # Generating a constant.
>>
>> var = 65
>>
>> # Generating a random number.
>> ranum = random.randint(1,100)
>>
>> #Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
>> while var != ranum:
>>     if var == ranum:
>>         print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>>     else:
>>         print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
>>
>> ########## End of Script ###########
>>
>>
>> What I'm trying to do is to print the new value that ranum generates
>> if the condition is not met. So far if you run the script it prints
>> the same value over and over again, making in an infinite loop. What
>> can I do in order to print out the new value generated every time
>> the condition is not met?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Paulo Repreza   
> in your script you generate the random number only once, no wonder it
> keep being the same value over & over.
>
> # Initialize ranum with a random number
> ranum = random.randint(1,100)
>
> #Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
> while var != ranum:
>    if var == ranum:
>        print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>    else:
>        print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
>    ranum = random.randint(1,100) # generate a new number, that's the
> missing line in your script
>
> JM

And a more idiomatic way of writing this in Python would be, I guess:

import random

var = 65
while True:
    ranum = random.randint(1, 100)
    if var == ranum:
        print var, 'equals to:', ranum
        break
    else:
        print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum

(following up from a FU as I can't see the OP)

-- 
Arnaud


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Feb 15 11:44:25 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:44:25 +0100
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com> <4B796CB2.2000302@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlbtk7$3h9$00$1@news.t-online.com>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> import subprocess
>> 
>> def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
>>             filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
>>     lookup = locals()
>>     assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
>>     subprocess.call("""\
>> convert
>> -size
>> {width}x{height}
>> gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
>> {filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())
>> 
>> convert()
>> 
>> Peter
> 
> Thank you. It works. Now I need to understand why and am able to follow
> what you are doing part of the way:
> 
> 1. Assign default values in the function definition.
> 
> 2. Store the variables existing in the local namespace in the list lookup.
> 
> 3. Assert that there are no newlines in the values in lookup converted
> to strings. (Why? Is this because of splitlines() later on?)

Yes. 

> 4. Assemble a string (array?) for the subprocess.call argument using the
>   format string syntax (section 8.1.3 et seq. of the Python
> documentation for 2.6.4). Your example works with  default option of
> shell=False for subprocess.call().

I wanted to pass the executable and its arguments as a list (a python "list" 
is called array in other languages) to avoid bothering with shell escapes. 
 
> 5. I am unable to decipher how you got to format(**lookup).splitlines())
> especially the **prefix part, although I guess that splitlines() is
> dishing out the arguments one by one from each line in the
> subprocess.call argument.

Given some_dict = {key1: value1, key2: value2,...}

f(**some_dict) 

is a shortcut for

f(key1=value1, key2=value2, ...)

with the additional twist that you do not have to know the key/value pairs 
in advance.

I introduced splitlines to avoid calling the format method on every argument 
to "convert", i. e.

def convert2(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
            filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
    subprocess.call([
            "convert",
            "-size",
            "{width}x{height}".format(width=width, height=height),
            "gradient:{0}-{1}".format(*colors),
            filename])

I supected that it would look cleaner than the above, but now that I tried 
it I think convert2() is the better alternative.

Peter


From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb 15 11:50:13 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:50:13 +0000
Subject: Fighting with subprocess.Popen
References: <6ac1a5aa1002141223h54b6aca6k3f2a57a85fc1bad5@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2546.1266180225.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.15.16.50.13.188000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:43:22 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:

>> Below is a test case that demonstrates this. Tests 1 & 2 concatenate the
>> command and the argument, Tests 3 & 4 mimic the python docs and use the form
>> Popen(["mycmd", "myarg"], ...), which never seems to work.
> 
> It doesn't work with shell=True because the shell is not able to
> interpret the list form. It's recommended that you don't use shell=True
> unless you need a shell.

A more general rule is to use shell=True on Windows and shell=False on
Unix (including MacOSX).

On Windows, whether the command is a list or a string is entirely
orthogonal to whether a shell is used. The underlying execution function
(CreateProcess) always uses a string, so a list is always converted to a
string, and the conversion is independent of the shell= setting.

The difference between shell=False and shell=True is that the former
passes the string directly to CreateProcess while the latter passes
"cmd.exe /c "+string (cmd.exe is actually the value of %comspec% if it
is set).

The reason for using shell=True on Windows is that it allows the program
to be a batch file (or other script), while shell=False only works if the
program is a binary executable (.exe, .com).

On Unix, passing the arguments as a list in conjunction with shell=True
rarely makes sense. It results in the execution of

	["/bin/sh", "-c"] + args

i.e. args[0] is the argument to "-c" while the remaining arguments are
assigned to the shell variables $1, $2, etc. If you're using the
shell, you usually you want to pass the entire command as a string,
resulting in the execution of

	["/bin/sh", "-c", command]



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 11:50:41 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:50:41 +0100
Subject: get a field
In-Reply-To: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B797B61.7090804@sequans.com>

mierdatutis mi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have this:
>
> pe="http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml"
>
>
> I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml
>
> But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.
>
> Could you help me how could I do extract this in python?
>
> Many thanks and sorry for my English!
>
In [2]: import os

In [3]: os.path.basename(pe)
Out[3]: '691046.shtml'

JM


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 11:54:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:54:22 -0500
Subject: get a field
In-Reply-To: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlbu7u$k29$1@ger.gmane.org>

mierdatutis mi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have this:
> 
> pe="http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml"
> 
> 
> I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml
> 
> But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.
> 
> Could you help me how could I do extract this in python?
> 
> Many thanks and sorry for my English!
> 

>>> s = "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml"
>>> s.rfind("/")         # finds rightmost "/"
26
>>> s[s.rfind("/")+1:]   # substring starting after "/"
'file.shtml'
>>>

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb 15 11:56:51 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:56:51 +0000
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com> <4B797238.2090007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.15.16.56.50.875000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:11:36 +0800, R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:

> One other question I forgot to ask is this why is there a terminal 
> backslash in
> 
>> subprocess.call("""\
> 
> Removing the backslash makes the function fail.
> 
> I wonder why, because """ is supposed to allow multi-line strings. I am 
> sorry if this sounds obtuse but that backslash baffles me.

The backslash causes the following newline to be skipped, so the "c" at
the beginning of "convert" is the first character in the string. Without
it, the newline would be the first character, and the .splitlines() would
result in an empty string as the first element in the list.

Example:

> """
= hello
= world
= """.splitlines()
['', 'hello', 'world']
> """\
= hello
= world
= """.splitlines()
['hello', 'world']




From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:57:37 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:57:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Lacrima wrote:

> I am newbie mastering test driven development. I can't clarify myself
> which mock library to use.
> There are number of them and which one do you prefer?
>
> Two libraries that attracted my attention are:
> * minimock
> * dingus
> As for me the latest one, dingus, is the easiest (see this screencast:http://vimeo.com/3949077? ), but it has very few downloads from pypi,
> so it scares me a little.
> Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
> it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
> the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
> understand fully how minimock works.
>
> What are your suggestions?

I have used http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mock/0.6.0 . It mocks, and it
has a mode that works one method at a time, and another mode that
mocks a method before its owning object gets constructed.

However, TDD is not about mocking, and on greenfield code you should
only mock to recover from some external problem, such as:

     - a random number generator
     - the system clock
     - anything over "the wire" - over a TCP/IP socket
     - hardware, such as your graphics or sound

Never mock to avoid hitting the database. Some TDD verbiage advises
"never hit the database". That is a mind-game to force you to decouple
your code. Your objects should always have the option (via
"construction encapsulation") to run as stubs, with some of their
behaviors turned off. And if you TDD low-level code that hits a
database, a mock would only tell the test what it wants to hear. And
if you TDD high-level code that manages business rules, database
records make perfectly good behavioral "fixtures" to support those
rules.

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 12:02:38 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:02:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8bd0f4a-7187-4d0c-ab27-914b6e19b71c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 8:15?am, Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I am newbie mastering test driven development. I can't clarify myself
> which mock library to use.
> There are number of them and which one do you prefer?
>
> Two libraries that attracted my attention are:
> * minimock
> * dingus
> As for me the latest one, dingus, is the easiest (see this screencast:http://vimeo.com/3949077? ), but it has very few downloads from pypi,
> so it scares me a little.

I've used dingus with success.  I wouldn't let the lack of downloads
be a concern; the funny name is probably scaring some people away, and
of course there are other alternatives too.



From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 12:08:30 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<892f7664-14e9-4ce4-ab50-499fc8552ec3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<0eac0e90-fd39-4851-b979-c109218fb0ba@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <276960d6-97d7-4f46-827e-b14345d8ea2d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 1:07?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 11:52?am, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> > > c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> > > python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
> > > code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
> > > pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
> > > FACT1/).
> > > Thank you
>
> > One other thing: ?in the 'brent' function, you're setting m to
> > randrange(1, n). ?What's the purpose of this? ?It looks to me as
> > though m controls the number of Pollard-Rho iterations that are
> > clumped together at one time (before doing a gcd operation), and using
> > a random number for this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
>
> The randomness also makes the algorithm a little buggy.
>
> I tried this input:
>
> 37^5 41^5
>
> Usually I get the right answer. ?Other times I get this:
>
> 37^5 41^3 1681^1
>
> And occasionally it appears to get into an infinite loop, which
> definitely could be a cause of "slowness." :)

Thank you all for help. I will try to improve these short comings.


From pxrepreza at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 12:27:29 2010
From: pxrepreza at gmail.com (Paulo Repreza)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:27:29 -0500
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
In-Reply-To: <hlbt44$f9g$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlbt44$f9g$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d61936e01002150927h4650a70dxf272dede9d2a173b@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the help!
Using while True helps alot!


Paulo Repreza
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From fersed at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 12:55:08 2010
From: fersed at gmail.com (fernando sedano)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:55:08 +0100
Subject: saving a TIFF
Message-ID: <f8f1c7101002150955n558f14bdkfcd6473694def592@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to save an image created from two arrays (I'm using numpy and
PIL):


n=(b4a-b3a)/(b4a+b3a);
ndvi = Image.fromarray(n)
ndvi.save("F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3\ndvi_test","TIFF")

...........but I get the following error message:

IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
'F:\\Fire_scar_mapping\\ILS3\ndt'

Could anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong?
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Feb 15 13:06:51 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:51 -0500
Subject: saving a TIFF
In-Reply-To: <f8f1c7101002150955n558f14bdkfcd6473694def592@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f8f1c7101002150955n558f14bdkfcd6473694def592@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002151006w7e64bd01ga41fe604416c3e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:55 PM, fernando sedano <fersed at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to save an image created from two arrays (I'm using numpy and
> PIL):
>
>
> n=(b4a-b3a)/(b4a+b3a);
> ndvi = Image.fromarray(n)
> ndvi.save("F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3\ndvi_test","TIFF")
>
> ...........but I get the following error message:
>
> IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
> 'F:\\Fire_scar_mapping\\ILS3\ndt'
>
> Could anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong?
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
----------
>>> print "F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3\ndvi_test","TIFF"
F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3
dvi_test TIFF
--------------
Notice anything wrong with that? Unlike the Windows command line,
Python neither knows nor cares that the string you're entering is a
file name. It sees the \n and converts it to a newline. Either double
up your backslashes ( "F:\\Fire_scar_mapping\\ILS3\\ndvi_test"), use a
raw string (r"F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3\ndvi_test") or use forward
slashes ("F:/Fire_scar_mapping/ILS3/ndvi_test")


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Feb 15 13:28:25 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:28:25 -0600
Subject: get a field
In-Reply-To: <hlbu7u$k29$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlbu7u$k29$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B799249.2020205@tim.thechases.com>

  Holden wrote:
> mierdatutis mi wrote:
>> I have this:
>>
>> pe="http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml"
>>
>> I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml
>>
>> But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.
> 
>>>> s = "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml"
>>>> s.rfind("/")         # finds rightmost "/"
> 26
>>>> s[s.rfind("/")+1:]   # substring starting after "/"
> 'file.shtml'

If I didn't use os.path.basename(s) then I'd write this as 
"s.rsplit('/', 1)[-1]"

   >>> "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
   'file.shtml'
   >>> "".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
   ''
   >>> "file.html".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
   'file.html'

I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but I always 
appreciate seeing how various people solve the same problem.  I 
tend to lean away from the find()/index() methods on strings 
because I have to stop and think which one raises the exception 
and which one returns -1 (and that it's -1 instead of 0) usually 
dropping to a python shell and doing

   >>> help("".find)
   >>> help("".index)

to refresh my memory.

FWIW, Steve's solution and the os.path.basename() both produce 
the same results with all 3 input values, so it's more a matter 
of personal style preference.  The basename() version has 
slightly different results if you have Windows paths with 
backslashes:

   s = r'c:\path\to\file.txt'

but since you (OP) know that they should be URLs with 
forward-slashes, it should be a non-issue.

-tkc





From leo at lspace.org  Mon Feb 15 13:29:38 2010
From: leo at lspace.org (Leo Breebaart)
Date: 15 Feb 2010 18:29:38 GMT
Subject: Using class attributes
Message-ID: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>


I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
(upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.

I can derive the template filename string for each instance by
doing something like this in the base class (and then not
forgetting to call super() in the __init__() of each derived
class):

  class Foo(object):

      def __init__(self):
          self.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % self.__class__.__name__
          self.template_body = read_body_from(self.template_filename)

But, since this information is the same for every instance of
each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)

I can of course always just hardcode the template filenames in
each derived class, but I am just curious if it can be automated
through some form of introspection.
-- 
Leo Breebaart  <leo at lspace.org>


From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:33:33 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:33:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 6:57 pm, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lacrima wrote:
> > I am newbie mastering test driven development. I can't clarify myself
> > which mock library to use.
> > There are number of them and which one do you prefer?
>
> > Two libraries that attracted my attention are:
> > * minimock
> > * dingus
> > As for me the latest one, dingus, is the easiest (see this screencast:http://vimeo.com/3949077 ), but it has very few downloads from pypi,
> > so it scares me a little.
> > Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
> > it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
> > the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
> > understand fully how minimock works.
>
> > What are your suggestions?
>
> I have usedhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/mock/0.6.0. It mocks, and it
> has a mode that works one method at a time, and another mode that
> mocks a method before its owning object gets constructed.
>
> However, TDD is not about mocking, and on greenfield code you should
> only mock to recover from some external problem, such as:
>
>      - a random number generator
>      - the system clock
>      - anything over "the wire" - over a TCP/IP socket
>      - hardware, such as your graphics or sound
>
> Never mock to avoid hitting the database. Some TDD verbiage advises
> "never hit the database". That is a mind-game to force you to decouple
> your code. Your objects should always have the option (via
> "construction encapsulation") to run as stubs, with some of their
> behaviors turned off. And if you TDD low-level code that hits a
> database, a mock would only tell the test what it wants to hear. And
> if you TDD high-level code that manages business rules, database
> records make perfectly good behavioral "fixtures" to support those
> rules.
>
> --
>   Phlip
>  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand

Hi, Phlip!

Thanks for your reply! Isn't what you are talking about integration
tests? And unit tests should be fully isolated? So even for method
'some_method()' of class A I should mock instance of class A (i.e. to
mock 'self') to test 'some_method()'.

Please, could you explain in more detail your thoughts:
> Your objects should always have the option (via
> "construction encapsulation") to run as stubs, with some of their
> behaviors turned off. And if you TDD low-level code that hits a
> database, a mock would only tell the test what it wants to hear. And
> if you TDD high-level code that manages business rules, database
> records make perfectly good behavioral "fixtures" to support those
> rules.

And could you give an example.
For me it's really hard to develop test first. Often I don't know what
tests to write to replace hardcoded return values by objects that
perform actual work.
I have read several books on TDD and explored http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestDrivenDevelopment
and related wikis, but often it seems I don't have enough
understanding to write even simple application.
And sorry for my English.

with regards,
Max.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:43:25 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:43:25 +0100
Subject: Plugin architecture
Message-ID: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

I'm thinking about writing plugin-style architecture for (a new) 
web-based app (with SQLAlchemy as backend).

Say, there's core web app and someone decides to write plugin Accounting 
for this web app that would work with SQA objects of the core app or 
other plugins.

I found this:

http://effbot.org/zone/metaclass-plugins.htm

(Although I'm not entirely sure this is the best approach for the web app)

How would you approach designing such architecture using features 
available in Python (and some major web framework, like Pylons or Django)?

Regards,
mk



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:53:23 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:53:23 +0100
Subject: Plugin architecture
In-Reply-To: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002151053s692f5c5fj6ae43838e4529a51@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm thinking about writing plugin-style architecture for (a new)
> web-based app (with SQLAlchemy as backend).
>
> Say, there's core web app and someone decides to write plugin Accounting
> for this web app that would work with SQA objects of the core app or
> other plugins.
>
> I found this:
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/metaclass-plugins.htm
>
> (Although I'm not entirely sure this is the best approach for the web app)
>
> How would you approach designing such architecture using features
> available in Python (and some major web framework, like Pylons or Django)?

Major web frameworks like django, turbogears (thicker ones), pylons,
cherrypy (thinner ones) include all the functionality for doing this
sort of thing out of the box. If I were you I would go ahead and use
one of these frameworks and only start thinking about designing
something new if I hit a wall. Chances are you won't.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:53:38 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:53:38 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
Message-ID: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>

  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
    if data[9] is None:
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable

I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
for a date-time stamp.

I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
in it.

How would I go about recommending a change the module?

Original code:
def mktime_tz(data):
    """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
    if data[9] is None:
        # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
        return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
    else:
        t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
        return t - data[9] - time.timezone

Patched code:
def mktime_tz(data):
    """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
    try:
        if data[9] is None:
            # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
            return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
        else:
            t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
            return t - data[9] - time.timezone
    except TypeError:
        return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))


----
Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of
stairs.

To argue that honorable conduct is only required against an honorable
enemy degrades the Americans who must carry out the orders. -- Charles
Krulak, Former Commandant of the Marine Corps

We are all slave to our own paradigm. -- Joshua Williams

If the letters PhD appear after a person's name, that person will
remain outdoors even after it's started raining. -- Jeff Kay


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 15 13:56:10 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:56:10 +0000
Subject: get a field
In-Reply-To: <4B799249.2020205@tim.thechases.com>
References: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>	<hlbu7u$k29$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B799249.2020205@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B7998CA.2090604@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Tim Chase wrote:
>  Holden wrote:
>> mierdatutis mi wrote:
>>> I have this:
>>>
>>> pe="http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml" 
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml
>>>
>>> But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.
>>
>>>>> s = "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml"
>>>>> s.rfind("/")         # finds rightmost "/"
>> 26
>>>>> s[s.rfind("/")+1:]   # substring starting after "/"
>> 'file.shtml'
> 
> If I didn't use os.path.basename(s) then I'd write this as 
> "s.rsplit('/', 1)[-1]"
> 
>   >>> "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
>   'file.shtml'
>   >>> "".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
>   ''
>   >>> "file.html".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
>   'file.html'
> 
> I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but I always appreciate 
> seeing how various people solve the same problem.  I tend to lean away 
> from the find()/index() methods on strings because I have to stop and 
> think which one raises the exception and which one returns -1 (and that 
> it's -1 instead of 0) usually dropping to a python shell and doing
> 
>   >>> help("".find)
>   >>> help("".index)
> 
> to refresh my memory.
> 
> FWIW, Steve's solution and the os.path.basename() both produce the same 
> results with all 3 input values, so it's more a matter of personal style 
> preference.  The basename() version has slightly different results if 
> you have Windows paths with backslashes:
> 
>   s = r'c:\path\to\file.txt'
> 
> but since you (OP) know that they should be URLs with forward-slashes, 
> it should be a non-issue.
> 
The MacOS separator was (is?) ":". Since MacOS X it has been based on
Unix, so I'm not sure what Python sees nowadays, "/" or still ":".
Another platform, RISC OS, uses ".". For that reason I wouldn't use
os.path.basename().

An alternative to .rsplit() is .rpartition().


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 15 14:21:17 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:21:17 +0000
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B799EAD.90805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

BJ Swope wrote:
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>     if data[9] is None:
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
> 
> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
> for a date-time stamp.
> 
> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
> in it.
> 
> How would I go about recommending a change the module?
> 
> Original code:
> def mktime_tz(data):
>     """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
>     if data[9] is None:
>         # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
>         return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>     else:
>         t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
>         return t - data[9] - time.timezone
> 
> Patched code:
> def mktime_tz(data):
>     """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
>     try:
>         if data[9] is None:
>             # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
>             return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>         else:
>             t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
>             return t - data[9] - time.timezone
>     except TypeError:
>         return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
> 
The traceback is saying that 'data' is None, not that it's too short
(that would raise an IndexError).


From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Feb 15 14:24:23 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:24:23 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Alf said (2/13/2010 8:34 PM):

> Names in Python refer to objects.
>
> Those references can be copied via assignment.
>
> That's (almost) all.
>
> And it provides a very short and neat way to describe pass by sharing.

Alf also said (2/13/2010 8:43 PM):

> * Steve Howell:
> > This thread is interesting on many levels.  What is the core
> > question that is being examined here?
>
> I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name
> refers to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the
> reference can be copied, and that the semantics of the language
> requires this and is defined in terms of this. Steve Holden,
> D'Aprano and many others maintain that there are no references, or
> that if there are then they're only an implementation aspect, i.e.
> that conceiveable one could have an implementation without them.

Steve D'Aprano said (2/14/2010 12:13 AM):

> That's not to say that the general concept of references (as in "to
> refer to") isn't valuable when discussing Python. If you want to say
> that (e.g.) following
>
> x = 1
>
> the name "x" refers to (or even points to!) the object 1, my
> objections will be mild or non-existent. In that sense, it's probably
> impossible to program without some sort of "references": the computer
> manipulates variables or objects directly, while we manipulate
> characters in source code. The only way to write a program is to use
> some abstract thing (a name, an offset, whatever) that refers, in
> some fashion, to a collection of bits in the computer's memory. But
> to go from that to the idea that (say) x is a pointer does so much
> violence to the concept of pointer and has so much room for confusion
> that it is actively harmful.

I think most of the technical argument in this thread comes down to the
various forms of the word *refer*. After execution of this Python statement:

   x = 5

... we can use this English-language statement:

   the name *x* refers to the value *5*

(If anyone has more than Steve's "mild" objection, please speak up!)

The English-language statement uses the VERB "refers". It is not the 
same as using the NOUN "reference":

   *x* is a reference to the value *5*

Why not? Because using the NOUN form suggests that you're talking about
a particular kind of object in the world Python, as in these statements:

   *x* is a string
   *x* is a function
   *x* is a class

But Python does not define *reference* objects -- by which I mean that
executing *import types; dir(types)* produces a long list of object-type 
names, and there's nothing like a "reference" on that list.

(I suspect there's a better way to make this "there are no reference
objects" argument. Can anyone help?)

Amending the statement to:

   the name *x* is a reference to the value *5*

... doesn't really help matters. Is *x* a NAME or is it a REFERENCE?

Looking again at Alf's assertion:

> [the core technical question is] whether a Python name
> refers to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the
> reference can be copied,

... and Alf's example (message dated 2/10/2010 5:02 PM):

> For example,
>
>   x = s[0]
>
> accesses the object that s points (refers) to.

I believe Alf would characterize this assignment statement as a 
situation in which "a reference is copied" [using the NOUN form of 
"refer"]. But no object is copied during execution of this statement. 
Moreover, saying "a reference is copied" might mislead a Python newbie 
into thinking that some kind of "reference object" exists that can be 
copied by Python statements. So it's better to describe the situation 
using the VERB form of "refer":

   assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to


-John


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:31:11 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:31:11 -0800
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:53 AM, BJ Swope <bigblueswope at gmail.com> wrote:

>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>    if data[9] is None:
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
>
> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
> for a date-time stamp.
>
> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
> in it.
>

While there may or may not be a bug in the library, I don't think its where
you're fixing. Just because an exception occurs in a function doesn't mean
that function is broken: its documented as accepting a 10 item tuple, only.
Functions in the stdlib generally -should- throw exceptions on invalid
input.

Someone's passing None into it, which its not allowed to do. So -that's-
where the bug probably is, I think. (Although it may not be the immediate of
mktime_tz; it could be happening higher up on the stack)

Advice: Always post complete tracebacks to c.p.l/python-list :)

--S
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From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:47:32 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:47:32 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:53 AM, BJ Swope <bigblueswope at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>> ? ?if data[9] is None:
>> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
>>
>> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
>> for a date-time stamp.
>>
>> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
>> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
>> in it.
>
> While there may or may not be a bug in the library, I don't think its where
> you're fixing. Just because an exception occurs in a function doesn't mean
> that function is broken: its documented as accepting a 10 item tuple, only.
> Functions in the stdlib generally -should- throw exceptions on invalid
> input.
> Someone's passing None into it, which its not allowed to do. So -that's-
> where the bug probably is, I think. (Although it may not be the immediate of
> mktime_tz; it could be happening higher up on the stack)
> Advice: Always post complete tracebacks to c.p.l/python-list :)
> --S


>From the module:

def mktime_tz(data):
    """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
    if data[9] is None:
       # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
       return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
    else:
        t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
        return t - data[9] - time.timezone


It appears that the module is trying to accommodate the potential
missing TZ data because poorly written emails are missing the TZ data.

I discarded all the crontab emails that had the full traceback in
them.  I took out the try/except clause in the hopes that I'll get
another exception soon.

If I do I'll post the entire exception traceback.


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Feb 15 14:51:04 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:51:04 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B79A5A8.8020008@ieee.org>

BJ Swope wrote:
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>     if data[9] is None:
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
>
> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
> for a date-time stamp.
>
> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
> in it.
>
> How would I go about recommending a change the module?
>
> Original code:
> def mktime_tz(data):
>     """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
>     if data[9] is None:
>         # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
>         return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>     else:
>         t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
>         return t - data[9] - time.timezone
>
> Patched code:
> def mktime_tz(data):
>     """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
>     try:
>         if data[9] is None:
>             # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
>             return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>         else:
>             t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
>             return t - data[9] - time.timezone
>     except TypeError:
>         return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>
>
> ----
> Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they
> still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of
> stairs.
>
> To argue that honorable conduct is only required against an honorable
> enemy degrades the Americans who must carry out the orders. -- Charles
> Krulak, Former Commandant of the Marine Corps
>
> We are all slave to our own paradigm. -- Joshua Williams
>
> If the letters PhD appear after a person's name, that person will
> remain outdoors even after it's started raining. -- Jeff Kay
>
>   
Is the code that calls mktime_tz() your own?  If so, maybe you'd be 
better off fixing that.  The error message indicates that the 'data' 
parameter is None, which is invalid, according to the 2.6 documentation 
anyway (the parameter to the function is supposed to be a 10-tuple).  So 
it's a bug in the caller, not in that function.  

Besides, your fix will still raise another exception inside the except 
class, since if data[9] gives that error, so will data[:8}

DaveA



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb 15 14:53:46 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:53:46 -0800
Subject: Using class attributes
In-Reply-To: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002151153l2ce0050bt9297ae9acfa34c6b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> wrote:
> I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
> FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
> (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
> FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
>
> I can derive the template filename string for each instance by
> doing something like this in the base class (and then not
> forgetting to call super() in the __init__() of each derived
> class):
>
> ?class Foo(object):
>
> ? ? ?def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? ?self.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % self.__class__.__name__
> ? ? ? ? ?self.template_body = read_body_from(self.template_filename)
>
> But, since this information is the same for every instance of
> each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
> the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
> these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
> can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
>
> I can of course always just hardcode the template filenames in
> each derived class, but I am just curious if it can be automated
> through some form of introspection.

Metaclasses to the rescue!:

class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
        klass = type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
        klass.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % name
        klass.template_body = read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
        return klass

class Foo(object):
    __metaclass__ = WithTemplateAttrs
    #rest of class body here

Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
automatically get the attributes generated.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:54:16 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:54:16 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>
	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fca207171002151154q20773b7epc50dd1545c0f5def@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:47 PM, BJ Swope <bigblueswope at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:53 AM, BJ Swope <bigblueswope at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>>> ? ?if data[9] is None:
>>> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
>>>
>>> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
>>> for a date-time stamp.
>>>
>>> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
>>> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
>>> in it.
>>
>> While there may or may not be a bug in the library, I don't think its where
>> you're fixing. Just because an exception occurs in a function doesn't mean
>> that function is broken: its documented as accepting a 10 item tuple, only.
>> Functions in the stdlib generally -should- throw exceptions on invalid
>> input.
>> Someone's passing None into it, which its not allowed to do. So -that's-
>> where the bug probably is, I think. (Although it may not be the immediate of
>> mktime_tz; it could be happening higher up on the stack)
>> Advice: Always post complete tracebacks to c.p.l/python-list :)
>> --S
>
>
> From the module:
>
> def mktime_tz(data):
> ? ?"""Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
> ? ?if data[9] is None:
> ? ? ? # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
> ? ? ? return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ? ?t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
> ? ? ? ?return t - data[9] - time.timezone
>
>
> It appears that the module is trying to accommodate the potential
> missing TZ data because poorly written emails are missing the TZ data.
>
> I discarded all the crontab emails that had the full traceback in
> them. ?I took out the try/except clause in the hopes that I'll get
> another exception soon.
>
> If I do I'll post the entire exception traceback.
>


Speak of the devil and demons appear...

 /logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py

Parsing of emails for spam at serv1.bigbluenetworks.com failed.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py",
line 81, in <module>
    clean_stale_mail()
  File "/logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py",
line 24, in clean_stale_mail
    utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
    if data[9] is None:
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable





def clean_stale_mail():
    msg_date1= the_email.get('Date')
    msg_date2 = email.utils.parsedate_tz(msg_date1)
    try:
        utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
    except OverflowError:
        M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')
        return
    utc_stale_date = time.time() - (86000*stale_days)
    if utc_msg_date <= utc_stale_date:
        M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')


try:
    #M = imaplib.IMAP4(HOST)
    M = imaplib.IMAP4_SSL(HOST)
    M.login(USER, PASSWD)
    M.select(MAILBOX)

    response, msg_list = M.search(None, 'ALL') # response is IMAP
response, msg_list is list of Message IDs

    for msg_id in msg_list[0].split(): #msg_list[0] is a space
separated string of message ids
        response, message = M.fetch(msg_id, '(RFC822)') # response is
the IMAP response, message is an RFC222 message

        msg = email.FeedParser.FeedParser( )
        msg.feed(message[0][1])
        the_email = msg.close()

        clean_stale_mail()

        if the_email.is_multipart():
            for part in the_email.walk():
                if part.get_content_type() == 'text/html':
                    decoded_part = part.get_payload(decode=1)
                    soup_parse(decoded_part)
        elif the_email.get_content_type() == 'text/html':
            decoded_part = the_email.get_payload(decode=1)
            soup_parse(decoded_part)
        elif the_email.get_content_type() == 'text/plain':
            msg_payload = the_email.get_payload()
            manual_parse(msg_payload)
        else:
            continue
            #print msg_id, "Did't match any defined content types..."
            #print the_email
    M.expunge()
    M.close()
    M.logout()


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:56:53 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:56:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Lacrima wrote:

> Thanks for your reply! Isn't what you are talking about integration
> tests? And unit tests should be fully isolated? So even for method
> 'some_method()' of class A I should mock instance of class A (i.e. to
> mock 'self') to test 'some_method()'.

"Unit test" is a high-end QA concept. Developers can get the best
return on "developer tests". They don't bother with aerospace-quality
isolation between units.

If a TDD test needs to pull in a bunch of modules to pass, that's
generally a good thing, because they all get indirect testing. If they
catch a bug, their local tests might not catch it, but the higher
level tests still have a chance.

(And if your product still needs unit tests, TDD will make them very
easy for a formal QA team to add.)

However, expensive setup is a design smell. That means if a test case
requires too many lines of code for its Assemble phase (before its
Activate and Assert phases), then maybe those lines of code support
objects that are too coupled, and they need a better design.

Throwing mocks at these objects, instead of decoupling them, will
"perfume" the design smell, instead of curing it.

> > "construction encapsulation")

> And could you give an example.

  def test_frob(self):
      frob = Frob()
      frob.knob = Mock()
      frob.knob.value = Mock(return_value = 42)
      assert 42 == frob.method_using_knob()

We need the mock because we can't control how Frob's constructor built
its knob. So instead, give Frob the option to construct with a Knob:

  def test_frob(self):
      knob = Knob(42)
      frob = Frob(knob)
      assert frob.method_using_knob()

Note that in production the Knob constructor never takes a Knob. Maybe
we should upgrade the production code too (!), or maybe Knob's
constructor should only create a knob if it didn't get passed one.
Either technique is acceptable, because the resulting code decouples
Frobs and Knobs just a little bit more.

> For me it's really hard to develop test first. Often I don't know what
> tests to write to replace hardcoded return values by objects that
> perform actual work.

You have read too many books on TDD. C-:

Alternate between writing lines of test and lines of code. Run the
tests after the fewest possible edits, and always correctly predict if
the tests will pass, or will fail, and with what diagnostic. (And
configure your editor to run the stankin tests, no matter how hard it
fights you!) The high-end tricks will get easier after you get the
basic cycle down.

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb 15 15:04:12 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:04:12 -0800
Subject: Talking with ebay using Python
In-Reply-To: <a7268e571002150610g8b28821q34ca600c7222a960@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a7268e571002150610g8b28821q34ca600c7222a960@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002151204i487fea42mcba4f7142288a407@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 6:10 AM, starglider develop
<starglider.dev at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I need a way of talking with the eBay API:
> Made search,
> Ask for item status.
>
> What can it be done, and where can I get the info.

In the future, search Google and PyPI (http://pypi.python.org/pypi).
(PyPI is like CPAN for Python.)

Here's what I came up with:

pyeBay:
http://ebaydeveloper.typepad.com/pyebay.html

easyBay:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/easyBay/0.1dev

They both haven't been updated in a while are are probably
unmaintained. I have never used either of these; I have no idea
whether they still work.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb 15 15:17:35 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:17:35 -0800
Subject: Talking with ebay using Python
In-Reply-To: <a7268e571002151212l22b59e83tf8a2aecf9f6d3c9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a7268e571002150610g8b28821q34ca600c7222a960@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002151204i487fea42mcba4f7142288a407@mail.gmail.com>
	<a7268e571002151212l22b59e83tf8a2aecf9f6d3c9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002151217p5a01dfa4x4b3df752d5c412e6@mail.gmail.com>

> On 15 February 2010 20:04, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 6:10 AM, starglider develop
>> <starglider.dev at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > I need a way of talking with the eBay API:
>> > Made search,
>> > Ask for item status.
>> >
>> > What can it be done, and where can I get the info.
>>
>> In the future, search Google and PyPI (http://pypi.python.org/pypi).
>> (PyPI is like CPAN for Python.)
>>
>> Here's what I came up with:
>>
>> pyeBay:
>> http://ebaydeveloper.typepad.com/pyebay.html
>>
>> easyBay:
>> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/easyBay/0.1dev
>>
>> They both haven't been updated in a while are are probably
>> unmaintained. I have never used either of these; I have no idea
>> whether they still work.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:12 PM, starglider develop
<starglider.dev at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your replay Chris,
> but easyBay is no longer available, I had contact the mantainer without
> result.
> pyebay is new to me but lacks documentations and the output is in XML unlike
> easybay the creats a class.

Er, easyBay is available. Click one of the file links on its PyPI
entry, they work just fine.

And in the future, mention the results of any search (i.e. the fact
you tried contacting the easyBay dev) in your first message.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From chiranjeevi.muttoju at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 15:33:18 2010
From: chiranjeevi.muttoju at gmail.com (chiranjeevi muttoju)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:33:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit
	status 1
Message-ID: <0276dd58-9d1a-456d-ab81-33bd241e7d85@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
When i'm trying to install some modules for python i'm getting the
fallowing error..

error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit
status 1

can any one know what it exactly means.. if any body know please
reply.
i have gcc version  4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46).
i'm using python python2.6,

some of the modules getting this type of errors are.. mysqldb, and
pytc., etc..

if any one know please help me..

Thanks and Regards..
chiranjeevi.muttoju


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 15 15:42:42 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:42:42 +0000
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151154q20773b7epc50dd1545c0f5def@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>
	<fca207171002151154q20773b7epc50dd1545c0f5def@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B79B1C2.5040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>

BJ Swope wrote:
[snip]
> 
> Speak of the devil and demons appear...
> 
>  /logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py
> 
> Parsing of emails for spam at serv1.bigbluenetworks.com failed.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py",
> line 81, in <module>
>     clean_stale_mail()
>   File "/logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py",
> line 24, in clean_stale_mail
>     utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>     if data[9] is None:
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
> 
> 
> 
> def clean_stale_mail():
>     msg_date1= the_email.get('Date')

What is the value of 'msg_date1' at this point?

>     msg_date2 = email.utils.parsedate_tz(msg_date1)

What is the value of 'msg_date2' at this point?

The docs say that parsedate_tz() can return a 10-tuple or None.

Presumably, if it can't parse the date then it returns None.

>     try:
>         utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
>     except OverflowError:
>         M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')
>         return
>     utc_stale_date = time.time() - (86000*stale_days)
>     if utc_msg_date <= utc_stale_date:
>         M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')
> 
[snip]



From philip at semanchuk.com  Mon Feb 15 15:48:38 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:48:38 -0500
Subject: error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with
	exit status 1
In-Reply-To: <0276dd58-9d1a-456d-ab81-33bd241e7d85@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <0276dd58-9d1a-456d-ab81-33bd241e7d85@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFBAA3C6-6A0D-480B-96BE-201909254BD8@semanchuk.com>


On Feb 15, 2010, at 3:33 PM, chiranjeevi muttoju wrote:

> Hi,
> When i'm trying to install some modules for python i'm getting the
> fallowing error..
>
> error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit
> status 1
>
> can any one know what it exactly means.. if any body know please
> reply.
> i have gcc version  4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46).
> i'm using python python2.6,
>
> some of the modules getting this type of errors are.. mysqldb, and
> pytc., etc..

Hi Chiranjeevi,
Show us all of the output, please -- everything from where you typed  
'setup.py' until the script died.





From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 15:59:01 2010
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:59:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2592.1266263659.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b6e35aa-2e3c-4983-bc01-8330c3513ee6@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 2:54?pm, BJ Swope <bigbluesw... at gmail.com> wrote:

> def clean_stale_mail():
> ? ? msg_date1= the_email.get('Date')
> ? ? msg_date2 = email.utils.parsedate_tz(msg_date1)
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
> ? ? except OverflowError:
> ? ? ? ? M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')
> ? ? ? ? return
> ? ? utc_stale_date = time.time() - (86000*stale_days)
> ? ? if utc_msg_date <= utc_stale_date:
> ? ? ? ? M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')

It looks like msg_date1 is None.  That is, 'Date' is not found in
the_email.

As Dave Angel said, your "patch" shouldn't fix this problem anyway.
Use your patch and put the same problematic input in it to see if it
really does fix the problem.  (Just to satisfy our morbid curiosity,
not really to help you get a true solution.)

It looks to me like you have to do something to make clean_stale_mail
more robust, rather than focusing on anything in the standard library.

John


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 16:03:10 2010
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:03:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2592.1266263659.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7b6e35aa-2e3c-4983-bc01-8330c3513ee6@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e6bd2498-cff0-463b-822a-f56bcdf35e25@z1g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 3:59?pm, John Yeung <gallium.arsen... at gmail.com> wrote:

> It looks to me like you have to do something to make clean_stale_mail
> more robust, rather than focusing on anything in the standard library.

Let me quickly add: ...or fix whatever calls clean_stale_mail, etc.

John


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 15 16:25:23 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <m2aavajinw.fsf@googlemail.com>

John Posner <jjposner at optimum.net> writes:
[...]
>>   x = s[0]
[...]
>   assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to

s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).

-- 
Arnaud


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 17:04:43 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:04:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
Message-ID: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I am trying to learn CGI. I was checking Python Docs. There are
multiple modules. Which one to start with?
Is there any other material or URL for step by step learning of CGI.

My next question is:
I want to test it. I have a small personal computer. I have internet
but is connected by a service provider. I do not have personal web
page. Can I use my personal computer as a client as well as a server?

If your kind time permits to answer me these questions, I would be
hugely benefited.
Wishing you a happy day ahead,
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From dino at phidev.org  Mon Feb 15 17:12:23 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:12:23 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain> <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1266271943.4299.2887.camel@brain>

On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've
> seen)
> > approach:
> >
> > You need to define something like:
> > |
> > | class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
> > |
> > in your blog software.
> 
> Why? Any reason you can't define it in a separate package the 
> blog-software depends on, as well as your wiki?

That's actually my point - most plugin systems I've seen, like the one
trac uses, are not encouraging you to do so. Having a module that just
defines an Interface is kind of weird - and in the real world no one is
doing it.

> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior 
> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit
> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced. 

Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check if
your "implementation" comply with the "interface". 


Here is one solution I came up with. Based on the earlier example:
> >     Lets say you program a wiki and like to allow different kind of
> >     authentications. So you create two plugins (for example one for
> >     OpenID and one for Shibboleth).
> >
> >      Some time later you feel like reinventing the wheel again and
> >      you program a blog. Again you like to allow different ways of
> >      authentication and you already wrote plugins for exactly the
> >       same for your wiki, right?

auth_openid.py - providing the authentication service
http://dpaste.com/hold/159619/

wiki.py - providing the wiki
http://dpaste.com/hold/159634/

Now putting both together:

> import pbus
>
> import wiki
> import auth_openid
> # or: import auth_shibboleth
>
> pbus.get("wiki").run()

No interface definitions.


What do you think? Any obvious pitfalls (besides reinventing something)?

Please keep in mind that syntax/api is not "done" or anything its just
an concept presentation.

Thanks,
Florian


-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 17:20:01 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:20:01 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <4B79B1C2.5040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>
	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>
	<fca207171002151154q20773b7epc50dd1545c0f5def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B79B1C2.5040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <fca207171002151420r7b9e8f4l682c043b93f81050@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:42 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> BJ Swope wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> def clean_stale_mail():
>> ? ?msg_date1= the_email.get('Date')
>
> What is the value of 'msg_date1' at this point?
>
>> ? ?msg_date2 = email.utils.parsedate_tz(msg_date1)
>
> What is the value of 'msg_date2' at this point?
>
> The docs say that parsedate_tz() can return a 10-tuple or None.
>
> Presumably, if it can't parse the date then it returns None.
>

> [snip]
>

msg_date1:  @@DATE
msg_date2:  None

Thanks MRAB, Dave and Stephen!

The spam bot didn't populate the date field with anything remotely
resembling the date.  The @@DATE var was left in the Date header.

In reading the module I misunderstood what the "if date[9] is None:" was doing.

I'll wrap my calls in a try/except.


From dino at phidev.org  Mon Feb 15 17:25:31 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:25:31 +0100
Subject: Plugin architecture
In-Reply-To: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1266272731.4299.2902.camel@brain>

Hi mk,

On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 19:43 +0100, mk wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm thinking about writing plugin-style architecture for (a new) 
> web-based app (with SQLAlchemy as backend).
>
> [...]
>
> How would you approach designing such architecture using features 
> available in Python (and some major web framework, like Pylons or Django)?

You should really look into the web framework you're using, there
probably already is some plugin architecture.

But being not content myself with the architectures I've seen or worked
with I was looking for some input as well and posted some days back
about a similar topic. Maybe some of the thoughts expressed there might
help you as well:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/0a210267753919b0/5add7bc93789b418

Florian


-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 17:26:16 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:26:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2561.1266242637.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7b1fed01-e0bf-4240-bdef-f817996a90d6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2563.1266244073.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1f520615-63df-4923-ba2e-c677e460ac9f@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 2:27?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Martin wrote:
> > On Feb 15, 2:03 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Martin wrote:
>
> >>> Hi,
>
> >>> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> >>> a series ofregex, which look something like this...
>
> >>> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> >>> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ? ? ?! ?lai(1:npft)
>
> >>> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> >>> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> >>> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> >>> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> >>> The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> >>> f = open(fname, 'r')
> >>> s = f.read()
>
> >>> if CANHT:
> >>> ? ? s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+ ? !
> >>> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> >>> where CANHT might be
>
> >>> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft'
>
> >>> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> >>> Thanks.
>
> >>> Martin
>
> >> I remove all lines containing things like 9*0.0 in your file, cause I
> >> don't know what they mean and how to handle them. These are not numbers.
>
> >> import re
>
> >> replace = {
> >> ? ? 'snow_grnd' : (1, '99.99,'), # replace the 1st number by 99.99
> >> ? ? 't_soil' : (2, '88.8,'), # replace the 2nd number by 88.88
> >> ? ? }
>
> >> testBuffer = """
> >> ?0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759 ?! ?stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
> >> 0.46 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ! ?snow_grnd
> >> 276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48 ?! ?t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
> >> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> >> 200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ! ?lai(1:npft)
> >> """
>
> >> outputBuffer = ''
> >> for line in testBuffer.split('\n'):
> >> ? ? for key, (index, repl) in replace.items():
> >> ? ? ? ? if key in line:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? parameters = {
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 'n' : '[\d\.]+', # given you example you have to change
> >> this one, I don't know what means 9*0.0 in your file
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 'index' : index - 1,
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? }
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? # the following pattern will silently match any digit before
> >> the <index>th digit is found, and use a capturing parenthesis for the last
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? pattern =
> >> '(\s*(?:(?:%(n)s)[,\s]+){0,%(index)s})(?:(%(n)s)[,\s]+)(.*!.*)' %
> >> parameters # regexp are sometimes a nightmare to read
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? line = re.sub(pattern, r'\1 '+repl+r'\3' , line)
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? break
> >> ? ? outputBuffer += line +'\n'
>
> >> print outputBuffer
>
> > Thanks I will take a look. I think perhaps I was having a very slow
> > day when I posted and realised I could solve the original problem more
> > efficiently and the problem wasn't perhaps as I first perceived. It is
> > enough to match the tag to the right of the "!" sign and use this to
> > adjust what lies on the left of the "!" sign. Currently I have
> > this...if anyone thinks there is a neater solution I am happy to hear
> > it. Many thanks.
>
> > variable_tag = 'lai'
> > variable = [200.0, 60.030, 0.060, 0.030, 0.030]
>
> > # generate adjustment string
> > variable = ",".join(["%s" % i for i in variable]) + ' ! ?' +
> > variable_tag
>
> > # call func to adjust input file
> > adjustStandardPftParams(variable, variable_tag, in_param_fname,
> > out_param_fname)
>
> > and the inside of this func looks like this
>
> > def adjustStandardPftParams(self, variable, variable_tag, in_fname,
> > out_fname):
>
> > ? ? f = open(in_fname, 'r')
> > ? ? of = open(out_fname, 'w')
> > ? ? pattern_found = False
>
> > ? ? while True:
> > ? ? ? ? line = f.readline()
> > ? ? ? ? if not line:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? break
> > ? ? ? ? pattern = re.findall(r"!\s+"+variable_tag, line)
> > ? ? ? ? if pattern:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'yes'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? print >> of, "%s" % variable
> > ? ? ? ?pattern_found = True
>
> > ? ? ? ? if pattern_found:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? pattern_found = False
> > ? ? ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? of.write(line)
>
> > ? ? f.close()
> > ? ? of.close()
>
> > ? ? return
>
> Are you sure a simple
> if variable_tag in line:
> ? ? # do some stuff
>
> is not enough ?
>
> People will usually prefer to write
>
> for line in open(in_fname, 'r') :
>
> instead of your ugly while loop ;-)
>
> JM

My while loop is suitably offended. I have changed it as you
suggested...though if I do: if pattern (variable_tag) in line as you
suggested i would in my example correctly pick the tag lai, but also
one called dcatch_lai, which I wouldn't want. No doubt there is an
obvious solution I am again missing!

of = open(out_fname, 'w')
pattern_found = False

for line in open(in_fname, 'r'):
    pattern = re.findall(r"!\s+"+variable_tag, line)
    if pattern:
       print >> of, "%s" % variable
       pattern_found = True

    if pattern_found:
       pattern_found = False
    else:
       of.write(line)

of.close()

Many Thanks.


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Mon Feb 15 17:53:37 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:53:37 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:07:35 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hy, first thanks for your response!
> Well I am thinkin on coding in MPEG4/10, but I would just encode the
> video in that encoding,
> then stream it with VLC and save the video file on my disc. Then I
> would play it with my player....

I think you're misunderstanding what VLC does here.  Saving the video file  
should preserve format by default; you may be able save it out in YUV  
format (I don't have a copy on this machine to check), but that will take  
up ludicrous amounts of disc space and you'd still have to write a byte  
reader for it.  If you do do that, you have lost any chance of knowing  
whether a frame was an I or P frame in the original format, not that it  
matters anyway by that point.

MPEG-4/10 is hard to write efficient decoders for, and I have to admit I  
wouldn't do it in Python.  You'd be better off writing a wrapper for one  
of the existing MP4 libraries.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Feb 15 17:58:03 2010
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:58:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlcjhr$h0a$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23 at o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com> joy99 <subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com> writes:

> Can I use my personal computer as a client as well as a server?

Yes, if you install a web server on your PC.  You would then use 
"localhost" in your browser instead of a standard web address.

Assuming you're running Windows, have a look at this page to download
the Apache web server:

http://mirror.candidhosting.com/pub/apache/httpd/binaries/win32/README.html

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb 15 18:05:39 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Feb 2010 23:05:39 GMT
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:29:05 +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote:

> However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a
> script in there, how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within
> the database subdirectory? This fails:
>     from tools.logutils import logger

Sounds like you need to ensure that the top level directory needs to be 
added to your PYTHONPATH.

Do you need instructions to do this?

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb 15 18:09:59 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Feb 2010 23:09:59 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net> <m2aavajinw.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> John Posner <jjposner at optimum.net> writes: [...]
>>>   x = s[0]
> [...]
>>   assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
> 
> s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
> course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).

Precisely. Treated as an expression, that is, as a string being evaluated 
by the compiler, we would say that it *refers to* an object (unless 
evaluation fails, in which case it refers to nothing at all). But treated 
as whatever you get after the compiler is done with it, that is, post-
evaluation, we would say that it *is* an object.

This subtle distinction is essentially the difference between a label and 
the thing that is labeled.



-- 
Steven


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 18:34:35 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:34:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
Message-ID: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hey all,

I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.
(So if galileo228 at gmail.com was in the file, 'galileo228' would be
added to the list.)

Any suggestions would be much appeciated!

Matt


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 18:45:34 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:45:34 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net>	<m2aavajinw.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hlcme4$3eo$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> 
>> John Posner <jjposner at optimum.net> writes: [...]
>>>>   x = s[0]
>> [...]
>>>   assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
>> s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
>> course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).
> 
> Precisely. Treated as an expression, that is, as a string being evaluated 
> by the compiler, we would say that it *refers to* an object (unless 
> evaluation fails, in which case it refers to nothing at all). But treated 
> as whatever you get after the compiler is done with it, that is, post-
> evaluation, we would say that it *is* an object.
> 
> This subtle distinction is essentially the difference between a label and 
> the thing that is labeled.

The main differences between a pure functional language where that view can hold 
and be reasonable, and a language like Python, are that

   * Python assignments change which object a name refers to, /at runtime/.

     - Name binding is run time action, not a compile time action.
       Without run time binding names couldn't be reassigned. s = 1; s = 2

   * Some Python objects are modifiable (a.k.a. mutable).

     - This is particularly important when two or more names refer to the
       same object and that object is modified.

That is, a simple-minded transfer of concepts from pure functional programming 
to Python breaks down in these cases[1].

I hope this explanation of exactly where the functional programming enthusiasts 
here go wrong can be of help to readers of the thread, although I've given up 
hope on those holding the functional programming view (since I'm only human, and 
even the Gods contend in vain against that sort of thing).


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

Notes:
[1] Steven D'Aprano's focus on compilation rather than execution mainly ignores 
the first point, that a name in given a statement in a loop, say, can refer to 
different objects in different loop iterations. Happily the Python language 
specification explains binding as a run-time action. Binding is not a compile 
time action in Python, it is a run-time action, and can bind a given name in a 
given statement within the same routine execution, to different objects, and the 
language specification of course uses the phrase "refers to" to explain the 
situation after a run time binding.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 15 18:49:31 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:49:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4fc54d57-cab5-41ee-8546-19e2645b329e@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 3:34?pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
> email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
> characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.
> (So if galileo... at gmail.com was in the file, 'galileo228' would be
> added to the list.)
>
> Any suggestions would be much appeciated!
>

You may want to use regexes for this. For every match, split on '@'
and take the first bit.

Note that the actual specification for email addresses is far more
than a single regex can handle. However, for almost every single case
out there nowadays, a regex will get what you need.



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 15 18:52:19 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:52:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6f343cb9-fc6c-40d8-ad70-7e02851857ad@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 2:04?pm, joy99 <subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am trying to learn CGI. I was checking Python Docs. There are
> multiple modules. Which one to start with?
> Is there any other material or URL for step by step learning of CGI.
>

I would suggest skipping 15 years of internet progress and going with
a more modern framework. I recommend Pylons, although Django and
web.py are not bad.

> My next question is:
> I want to test it. I have a small personal computer. I have internet
> but is connected by a service provider. I do not have personal web
> page. Can I use my personal computer as a client as well as a server?
>

Yes. The nature of the internet means anyone that connects can be a
client or a server or both at the same time.

Heck, you don't even need to have a connection to the internet. Just
play with 127.0.0.1, which points right back to the same machine
you're running on.

I do this all the time for developing and testing out websites or
change to websites I work on.



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 15 18:55:05 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:55:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com> 
	<mailman.2567.1266249569.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fff256b7-af9a-4c9d-b7d6-80c2abcba702@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 7:59?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> pyt... at bdurham.com wrote:
> > Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
>
> > Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular expressions
> > as validation criteria. If a user enters a pathological regular
> > expression, we would like to timeout the evaluation of this expression
> > after a short period of time.
>
> Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an operation
> if it takes too much time.
>
> One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
> process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.
>
> This group being what it is you are likely to receive other, better
> suggestions too.
>

I'm not sure how exactly the re module is implemented, but since I
assume a great chunk is in C code, you may get away with a single
process and multiple threads. One thread will watch the process, or
have a timer event set to go off at a certain point. The other will
actually run the regex and get killed by the timer process if it
doesn't finish in time.


From news123 at free.fr  Mon Feb 15 19:04:28 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:04:28 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python 
Message-ID: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,


What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.

As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.

However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
as well.

Thanks for any info and bye


N


From news123 at free.fr  Mon Feb 15 19:10:51 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:10:51 +0100
Subject: How to use python to register a service (an existing .exe file)
Message-ID: <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

Is there a python way to register new windows services.


I am aware of the
instsrv.exe program, which can be used to install services.
I could use subprocess.Popen to call


instsrv.exe "service_name" program.exe


but wondered, whether there's already an existing function.

Thans in advance and bye


N


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Feb 15 19:17:13 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:17:13 +1100
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87eikmc9va.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lacrima <lacrima.maxim at gmail.com> writes:

> Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
> it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
> the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
> understand fully how minimock works.

I'm not sure why you think you need to keep track of the order of
imports.

Simply set up the mocks as you want them, in your fixtures; then, when
tearing down your fixtures, use ?minimock.restore()? to restore the
affected namespaces to their initial state.

-- 
 \       ?? one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was |
  `\        that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful |
_o__)                  termination of their C programs.? ?Robert Firth |
Ben Finney


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 19:17:31 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:17:31 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hlcoa5$nqe$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* News123:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
> 
> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
> 
> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
> as well.
> 
> Thanks for any info and bye

* Library:

   If there is some existing library for that (just search the web) then that
   would probably be the easiest.

* Registry functions:

   Otherwise, I'd use the general registry access functions.

   Info about the registry access functions is available in your Python docs.

   All the information about services is in the Windows registry (documented in
   the MSDN Library, which is available in a browsable on-line version at
   Microsoft).

* Text-oriented commands:

   An alternative to using the registry access functions is to capture the output
   of e.g. the 'sc' command.

   The 'net' command also has some functionality related to services, e.g.
   'net start'.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Feb 15 19:33:19 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:33:19 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net>	<m2aavajinw.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B79E7CF.3050805@optimum.net>

On 2/15/2010 6:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>
>> John Posner<jjposner at optimum.net>  writes: [...]
>>>>    x = s[0]
>> [...]
>>>    assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
>>
>> s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
>> course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).
>
> Precisely. Treated as an expression, that is, as a string being evaluated
> by the compiler, we would say that it *refers to* an object (unless
> evaluation fails, in which case it refers to nothing at all). But treated
> as whatever you get after the compiler is done with it, that is, post-
> evaluation, we would say that it *is* an object.
>
> This subtle distinction is essentially the difference between a label and
> the thing that is labeled.

Is this your only quibble with my writeup? If, so, I'm gratified. And 
your objections make perfect sense. Still, I'll attempt to justify my 
phrasing. I was originally going to write:

   assigns the name *x* to the object that THE NAME *s[0]* refers to

... but I didn't want to start a distracting argument on the use of the 
phrase *the name* to describe the 4-char string *s[0]*. So now I'll try 
to (briefly) make my case.

Yes, it might be more correct to say that *s[0]* is an expression 
(equivalent to the more obvious expression *s.__getitem__(0)*). But in 
common usage, the 4-char string *s[0]* _behaves_ like a name. If you 
accept this viewpoint, the story on Python assignment statements becomes 
quite simple ...

Syntactic sugar aside, there are only two kinds of assignment statements:

1. NAME = EXPRESSION

The EXPRESSION creates a new object, and the NAME is assigned to that 
object. Examples:

  x = x + 1
  obj = MyClass(1, 2, "red")
  mywordlist = mysentence.split()

2. NAME2 = NAME1

No new object is created. NAME2 becomes another name (an "alias") for 
the existing object that currently has NAME1 assigned to it. Examples:

  y = x
  s[0] = s[42]
  mydict["spamwich"] == this_sandwich
  obj.color = MYCOLORS.LTGREEN

This viewpoint might fail in advanced areas of Python programming: 
properties/descriptors, double-underscore methods, etc. But in my own 
day-to-day usage (admittedly, I'm a hobbyist Python programmer, not a 
professional), it's never failed me to think this way:

  * A dict is a collection of user-devised names, each of which
    is assigned to an object.
  * A list/tuple is an interpreter-maintained collection of integer
    names (0, 1, 2, ...), each of which is assigned to an object.
  * A class instance is very much like a dict.

Tx,
John


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Feb 15 19:35:21 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:35:21 -0600
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
In-Reply-To: <4fc54d57-cab5-41ee-8546-19e2645b329e@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<4fc54d57-cab5-41ee-8546-19e2645b329e@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B79E849.7060905@tim.thechases.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 15, 3:34 pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
>> email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
>> characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.
>> (So if galileo... at gmail.com was in the file, 'galileo228' would be
>> added to the list.)
>>
>> Any suggestions would be much appeciated!
>>
> 
> You may want to use regexes for this. For every match, split on '@'
> and take the first bit.
> 
> Note that the actual specification for email addresses is far more
> than a single regex can handle. However, for almost every single case
> out there nowadays, a regex will get what you need.

You can even capture the part as you find the regexps.  As 
Jonathan mentions, finding RFC-compliant email addresses can be a 
hairy/intractable problem.  But you can get a pretty close 
approximation:

   import re

   r = re.compile(r'([-\w._+]+)@(?:[-\w]+\.)+(?:\w{2,5})', re.I)
   #                                        ^
   # if you want to allow local domains like
   #   user at localhost
   # then change the "+" marked with the "^"
   # to a "*" and the "{2,5}" to "+" to unlimit
   # the TLD.  This will change the outcome
   # of the last test "jim at com" to True

   for test, expected in (
       ('jim at example.com', True),
       ('jim at sub.example.com', True),
       ('@example.com', False),
       ('@sub.example.com', False),
       ('@com', False),
       ('jim at com', False),
       ):
     m = r.match(test)
     if bool(m) ^ expected:
       print "Failed: %r should be %s" % (test, expected)

   emails = set()
   for line in file('test.txt'):
     for match in r.finditer(line):
       emails.add(match.group(1))
   print "All the emails:",
   print ', '.join(emails)

-tkc








From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Feb 15 19:36:55 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:36:55 -0500
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlcpc5$vi5$1@speranza.aioe.org>

joy99 wrote:

> Dear Group,
> 
> I am trying to learn CGI. I was checking Python Docs. There are
> multiple modules. Which one to start with?
> Is there any other material or URL for step by step learning of CGI.
> 
> My next question is:
> I want to test it. I have a small personal computer. I have internet
> but is connected by a service provider. I do not have personal web
> page. Can I use my personal computer as a client as well as a server?

A server can be as simple as:



#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: ASCII -*-
'''Simple CGI server in Python
$Id$'''
import getopt, os, sys
from BaseHTTPServer import HTTPServer
from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler

port = 8000
opts, args = getopt.getopt (sys.argv[1:], 'd:p:', ['www=', 'port='])
for o, v in opts:
    if o in ['-d', '--www']:
        os.chdir (v)
    elif o in ('-p', '--port'):
        port = int (v)
        
handler = HTTPServer (('', port), CGIHTTPRequestHandler)
handler.serve_forever()



If you run this like

mycgiserver.py --www=my_www_dir

and put your web pages under my_www_dir, and your CGI programs under 
my_www_dir/cgi-bin

then pointing your browser to <http://localhost:8000/> will show you your 
site.

	Mel.




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Feb 15 20:01:03 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:01:03 +1100
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87aavac7u8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

galileo228 <mattbarkan at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
> email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
> characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.

Email addresses can have more than one ?@? character. In fact, the
quoting rules allow the local-part to contain *any ASCII character* and
remain valid.

> Any suggestions would be much appeciated!

For a brief but thorough treatment of parsing email addresses, see RFC
3696, ?Application Techniques for Checking and Transformation of Names?
<URL:http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3696.txt>, specifically section 3.

-- 
 \          ?What I have to do is see, at any rate, that I do not lend |
  `\      myself to the wrong which I condemn.? ?Henry Thoreau, _Civil |
_o__)                                                    Disobedience_ |
Ben Finney


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 20:06:08 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:06:08 -0500
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
In-Reply-To: <fff256b7-af9a-4c9d-b7d6-80c2abcba702@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2567.1266249569.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<fff256b7-af9a-4c9d-b7d6-80c2abcba702@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlcr2b$ike$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 15, 7:59 am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> pyt... at bdurham.com wrote:
>>> Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
>>> Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular expressions
>>> as validation criteria. If a user enters a pathological regular
>>> expression, we would like to timeout the evaluation of this expression
>>> after a short period of time.
>> Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an operation
>> if it takes too much time.
>>
>> One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
>> process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.
>>
>> This group being what it is you are likely to receive other, better
>> suggestions too.
>>
> 
> I'm not sure how exactly the re module is implemented, but since I
> assume a great chunk is in C code, you may get away with a single
> process and multiple threads. One thread will watch the process, or
> have a timer event set to go off at a certain point. The other will
> actually run the regex and get killed by the timer process if it
> doesn't finish in time.

That would be a great idea if it were possible to kill a thread form
outside. Unfortunately it's not, so the best you can do is set a flag
and have it queried periodically. This is not practical during re matching.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 15 20:37:33 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:37:33 +0000
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
In-Reply-To: <hlcr2b$ike$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<mailman.2567.1266249569.28905.python-list@python.org>	<fff256b7-af9a-4c9d-b7d6-80c2abcba702@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<hlcr2b$ike$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B79F6DD.6060207@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> On Feb 15, 7:59 am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>> pyt... at bdurham.com wrote:
>>>> Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python
>>>> 2.6.4? Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter
>>>> regular expressions as validation criteria. If a user enters a
>>>> pathological regular expression, we would like to timeout the
>>>> evaluation of this expression after a short period of time.
>>> Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an
>>> operation if it takes too much time.
>>> 
>>> One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
>>> process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.
>>> 
>>> This group being what it is you are likely to receive other,
>>> better suggestions too.
>>> 
>> I'm not sure how exactly the re module is implemented, but since I 
>> assume a great chunk is in C code, you may get away with a single 
>> process and multiple threads. One thread will watch the process, or
>> have a timer event set to go off at a certain point. The other
>> will actually run the regex and get killed by the timer process if
>> it doesn't finish in time.
> 
> That would be a great idea if it were possible to kill a thread form 
> outside. Unfortunately it's not, so the best you can do is set a flag
> and have it queried periodically. This is not practical during re
> matching.
> 
The code for matching in the re module is written in C, and it doesn't
release the GIL because it calls the Python API, and you need to have
the GIL when doing that (unless you can guarantee that the specific call
is safe, that is!).

This means that other threads can't run during matching.

In order to be able to cancel the matching, the re module would have to
release the GIL when possible and have some kind of cancel() method
(belonging to which class?).

A simpler option would be to add a timeout argument. It already
periodically checks for ctrl-C, so perhaps the time check could be done
then.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 21:16:19 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>
> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>
> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
> as well.

I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].

    >>> import wmi
    >>> c = wmi.WMI()
    >>> services = c.Win32_Service()
    >>> s = services[0]
    >>> s
    <_wmi_object: \\LIB-D5NYF1S\root
\cimv2:Win32_Service.Name="Alerter">
    >>> s.properties
    {u'DisplayName': None, u'ServiceSpecificExitCode': None, u'State':
None, u'Syste
    mName': None, u'ErrorControl': None, u'Status': None,
u'ProcessId': None, u'Desc
    ription': None, u'Started': None, u'AcceptStop': None,
u'CheckPoint': None, u'Pa
    thName': None, u'WaitHint': None, u'Name': None, u'InstallDate':
None, u'Caption
    ': None, u'StartMode': None, u'DesktopInteract': None,
u'ServiceType': None, u'T
    agId': None, u'StartName': None, u'AcceptPause': None,
u'CreationClassName': Non
    e, u'SystemCreationClassName': None, u'ExitCode': None}
    >>> s.Name
    u'Alerter'
    >>> s.Started
    False
    >>> s.ServiceType
    u'Share Process'

1: http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/index.html


From shane_k_mcintyre at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 21:19:27 2010
From: shane_k_mcintyre at yahoo.com (Shane McIntyre)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:19:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Web Service Using XML for input and output
Message-ID: <682170.95799.qm@web57515.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I'm attempting to use a web service that takes XML as an input and returns an XML output.? I can connect to the service and attempt to pass in the XML but do not get any results. I believe my problem is how to package up the XML and send it in the request.? The XML consists of about 20 tag/value pairs. Any code snippets or a place to look for some examples would be appreciated.? I'm currently trying to use an HTTPConnection with the XML as a parameter in the request.
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 21:38:35 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:38:35 -0500
Subject: Web Service Using XML for input and output
In-Reply-To: <682170.95799.qm@web57515.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <682170.95799.qm@web57515.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <hld0fn$t9h$1@ger.gmane.org>

Shane McIntyre wrote:
> I'm attempting to use a web service that takes XML as an input and
> returns an XML output.  I can connect to the service and attempt to pass
> in the XML but do not get any results. I believe my problem is how to
> package up the XML and send it in the request.  The XML consists of
> about 20 tag/value pairs. Any code snippets or a place to look for some
> examples would be appreciated.  I'm currently trying to use an
> HTTPConnection with the XML as a parameter in the request.
> 
Well, one could fatuously point out that you must be doing it wrong, but
without seeing your code it's difficult to know exactly *how* you are
going wrong.

For all I know your current attempt at solution might require only
minimal changes to make it work.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 22:28:25 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:28:25 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>
>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>
>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>> as well.
> 
> I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].

It's probably Very Good, but one Microsoft-thing one should be aware of: using 
WMI functionality generally starts up a background WMI service...

Similarly, starting the standard clipboard viewer (discontinued in Windows 
Vista) starts up a silly copy-clipboard-contents-over-network service.

On a low-range machine the WMI service can be a resource concern.

I don't know whether the WMI service is a security concern (it probably is, 
considering IIS and anything Microsoft+Network and that WMI is meant to 
administrate machines over network, it's an enterprise thing not a personal 
computer user thing), but the clipboard service is, as I recall, a concern.


>     >>> import wmi
>     >>> c = wmi.WMI()
>     >>> services = c.Win32_Service()
>     >>> s = services[0]
>     >>> s
>     <_wmi_object: \\LIB-D5NYF1S\root
> \cimv2:Win32_Service.Name="Alerter">
>     >>> s.properties
>     {u'DisplayName': None, u'ServiceSpecificExitCode': None, u'State':
> None, u'Syste
>     mName': None, u'ErrorControl': None, u'Status': None,
> u'ProcessId': None, u'Desc
>     ription': None, u'Started': None, u'AcceptStop': None,
> u'CheckPoint': None, u'Pa
>     thName': None, u'WaitHint': None, u'Name': None, u'InstallDate':
> None, u'Caption
>     ': None, u'StartMode': None, u'DesktopInteract': None,
> u'ServiceType': None, u'T
>     agId': None, u'StartName': None, u'AcceptPause': None,
> u'CreationClassName': Non
>     e, u'SystemCreationClassName': None, u'ExitCode': None}
>     >>> s.Name
>     u'Alerter'
>     >>> s.Started
>     False
>     >>> s.ServiceType
>     u'Share Process'
> 
> 1: http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/index.html

Cheers,

- Alf


From wingusr at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 22:42:15 2010
From: wingusr at gmail.com (TP)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:42:15 -0800
Subject: Am I using ctypes correctly? Where are fprints going?
Message-ID: <fe0b845a1002151942j3fa2591aw4433dbd0d4ff21ce@mail.gmail.com>

>From the Cplusplus-sig, I gathered that instead of Boost.Python I
should use ctypes for the following problem. But let me make sure I'm
using it correctly.

I am calling the C Leptonica Image Processing C Library
(http://leptonica.com) from python.

Within its leptprotos.h file are functions like this:

 extern PIX * pixRead ( const char *filename );
 extern void pixDestroy ( PIX **ppix );

Using Windows XP, and within a Command Prompt I do this:

python26
>>> import ctypes
>>> leptonica = ctypes.cdll.leptonlib
>>> pixRead = leptonica.pixRead

>>> pix=ctypes.c_void_p()
>>> pix.value = pixRead(r"test.tif")
>>> pix
c_void_p(12310144)

>>> leptonica.pixGetWidth(pix)
1553   #this is the correct width

>>> leptonica.pixDestroy(ctypes.byref(pix))
>>> pix
c_void_p(None)   #This look right, pixDestroy() sets the pointer to NULL.

Is this the proper way you are supposed to supply the address of a
pointer that is returned by a C function? Is there a better way?

Should I have done the following also?

>>> pixRead.restype = ctypes.c_void_p
>>> pixDestroy.restype = None

Now that the pix has been destroyed, you shouldn't be able to get its width:

>>> leptonica.pixGetWidth(pix)
-1

This is correct but there also should have been an error message printed out.

The C library is doing this (I think, I haven't actually used the
debugger on it):

    sprintf(charbuf, "Error in %s: %s\n", procname, msg);
    fprintf(stderr, charbuf, ival);

But I don't see any error message appear in my console window?

Finally, the documentation states for ctypes.util.find_msvcrt():

  Windows only: return the filename of the VC runtype library used by
  Python, and by the extension modules. If the name of the library
  cannot be determined, None is returned.

  If you need to free memory, for example, allocated by an extension
  module with a call to the free(void *), it is important that you use
  the function in the same library that allocated the memory.

>>> import ctypes.util
>>> ctypes.util.find_msvcrt()
'msvcr90.dll'

Does this mean that if I build a Debug version of the Leptonica DLL
(which will use the Debug version of the runtime library,
msvcr90d.dll), that I also have to build and use a Debug version of
Python26?

I tried using leptonlibd.dll with the ActiveState release version of
Python26 and didn't see any immediate error.


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 15 23:22:49 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:49 +1300
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hld6ip$6ls$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <631b0785-38db-4c12-
a82a-7b11e2235e23 at o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, joy99 wrote:

> Is there any other material or URL for step by step learning of CGI.

There?s the official spec here 
<http://hoohoo.ncsa.illinois.edu/cgi/interface.html>.


From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 23:50:26 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:50:26 -0600
Subject: How to use python to register a service (an existing .exe file)
In-Reply-To: <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <cf9f31f21002152050qd3b0e77wbe3c1f5653b8da9b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 18:10, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is there a python way to register new windows services.
>
>
> I am aware of the
> instsrv.exe program, which can be used to install services.
> I could use subprocess.Popen to call
>
>
> instsrv.exe "service_name" program.exe
>
>
> but wondered, whether there's already an existing function.
>
> Thans in advance and bye
>
>
> N <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
There is nothing like that in the stdlib, so calling instserv via Popen may
be your best bet.

"sc create" may also be helpful to you.
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From chuckmcknight at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:00:39 2010
From: chuckmcknight at gmail.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:00:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TkTable and Python 3.1
Message-ID: <ab3af9c1-7c84-4ddc-880e-e84d6f634ad0@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

HI All,

I'm fiddling around with Python and I'm trying to get tktable to work
with Python 3.1 on Apple OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard). Has anyone
successfully accomplished this task, and if so, can you share how that
you got it working? I've got Darwin Ports installed (current version)
and I'm using Python 3.1 (ports), Tcl/Tk 8.5 (ports) and I've
installed TkTable 2.10 (ports). Somehow, I've missed doing something
because the Python interpreter can't seem to find the tktable module.

Thanks in advance!

Chuck


From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:13:45 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:13:45 -0600
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hlcoa5$nqe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlcoa5$nqe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <cf9f31f21002152113r1eceff41oa7f84dae4c92e508@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 18:17, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> * News123:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>>
>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>
>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>
>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>> as well.
>>
>> Thanks for any info and bye
>>
>
>
> * Registry functions:
>
>  Otherwise, I'd use the general registry access functions.
>
>  Info about the registry access functions is available in your Python docs.
>
>  All the information about services is in the Windows registry (documented
> in
>  the MSDN Library, which is available in a browsable on-line version at
>  Microsoft).
>

As for doing this via the registry, take a look at the EnumKey and EnumValue
functions of the winreg module (_winreg in 2.x).
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services contains service information, and
iterating over that should get a lot of what's needed.
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:43:25 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:43:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 1:28?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> It's probably Very Good, but one Microsoft-thing one should be aware of: using
> WMI functionality generally starts up a background WMI service...

"Probably"? You haven't even used the module but you felt the need to
contribute anyway? And I see that my suggestion is "probably" a
security concern too. Would it be too much to ask for you to provide
something other than unrelated anecdotes as evidence to support these
claims? Or perhaps produce an alternative solution[1] for the OP
instead of shitting over a working solution?

So you chose to post to share your vague unsubstantiated concerns
while offering the sterling advice that a developer need be familiar
with a system in order to be aware of the costs in using it. Clearly
time well spent by all.

1: http://essiene.blogspot.com/2005/04/python-windows-services.html


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 01:04:32 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:04:32 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> On Feb 16, 1:28 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> It's probably Very Good, but one Microsoft-thing one should be aware of: using
>> WMI functionality generally starts up a background WMI service...
> 
> "Probably"?

That means that since you say it's fantastic, it's probably very good. 
"Probably" is a way to qualify the statement. Based on your earlier and current 
quite emotional mode of expression I wouldn't take your word for an evaluation.


> You haven't even used the module but you felt the need to
> contribute anyway?

Yes, since I did not contribute about the module, but rather about the 
functionality that it uses, which you didn't mention in your otherwise excellent 
reply to the OP.


> And I see that my suggestion is "probably" a security concern too.

Yeah. It has nothing to do with the module, though. Only with Microsoft's WMI.


> Would it be too much to ask for you to provide
> something other than unrelated anecdotes as evidence to support these
> claims?

Google it.

E.g. <url: http://www.google.com/search?wmi+exploit>.

Other words and search engines might turn up other things, but the description 
of not a security "hole" but a security "crater" seems to me to indicate that 
it's not 100% secure.


> Or perhaps produce an alternative solution[1] for the OP
> instead of shitting over a working solution?

Oh yes, the confusion that technical facts are somehow an expression of personal 
feelings and social matters, and can be chosen as one pleases, hence, that 
providing a fact or pointing out a possibility that is unwanted, is "shitting".

 From my point of view that's stupid.

But I also think that apart from your "shitting" on me (and there the analogy is 
more apt, it's not about technical facts) it's great that you provide the kind 
of help that you did, pointing out a probably very good module that it seems 
gives the required functionality, and giving an URL.


[snip further speculative insults]


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 01:42:04 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:42:04 -0800
Subject: Looking for a Compiled Demo of MPL (matplotlib) Graphics
Message-ID: <hldent$nb5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Does anyone know where I can find a compiled demo that uses MPL 
graphics? I'd like, if possible, a Win version whose size is less than 
10M, so that I can send it via e-mail, if necessary. It should use plot, 
so that someone can manipulate the plot with the navigation controls. At 
this point, I have no idea if that method is the fundamental graph tool 
or not. I suspect it is.

If a mailable demo isn't available, maybe there's a web site that one 
can download such examples from?


From timr at probo.com  Tue Feb 16 01:58:17 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:58:17 -0800
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <iegkn51bdel0ksr9gprq1ugf4g06bh4g5u@4ax.com>

joy99 <subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I am trying to learn CGI. I was checking Python Docs. There are
>multiple modules. Which one to start with?

Well, it seems to me that the first place to start is the built-in CGI
module, in "cgi.py".  I'm not aware of any other CGI-based modules in the
standard library.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 02:14:32 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:14:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
Message-ID: <52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 12:53?am, "Rhodri James" <rho... at wildebst.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:07:35 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gv... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hy, first thanks for your response!
> > Well I am thinkin on coding in MPEG4/10, but I would just encode the
> > video in that encoding,
> > then stream it with VLC and save the video file on my disc. Then I
> > would play it with my player....
>
> I think you're misunderstanding what VLC does here. ?Saving the video file ?
> should preserve format by default; you may be able save it out in YUV ?
> format (I don't have a copy on this machine to check), but that will take ?
> up ludicrous amounts of disc space and you'd still have to write a byte ?
> reader for it. ?If you do do that, you have lost any chance of knowing ?
> whether a frame was an I or P frame in the original format, not that it ?
> matters anyway by that point.
>
> MPEG-4/10 is hard to write efficient decoders for, and I have to admit I ?
> wouldn't do it in Python. ?You'd be better off writing a wrapper for one ?
> of the existing MP4 libraries.
>
> --
> Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


Hm, well I see that and now I am thinking of using reference software
for MPEG4/10 which is written in c++  http://iphome.hhi.de/suehring/tml/
just to use it as a decoder on my client side, save the file in that
format and then play it in my player using pyffmpeg
http://code.google.com/p/pyffmpeg/ and just manipulate frames in that
clip-I think that could be possible....am I right? Thanks for your
help!


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:16:01 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:16:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Union of class variables
Message-ID: <07320890-98ae-4b11-b6c8-f8ab5b43dd43@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Is possible to get a third class with the class variables of another
two classes?

--------
class A:
    foo = 1

class B:
    bar = 2
--------


From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:28:12 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:28:12 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:29:05 +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
> 
>> However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a
>> script in there, how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within
>> the database subdirectory? This fails:
>>     from tools.logutils import logger
> 
> Sounds like you need to ensure that the top level directory needs to be 
> added to your PYTHONPATH.
> 
> Do you need instructions to do this?
> 

Hi Steve,


thanks, i think i know how to add the top level directory to the PYTHONPATH.

I'm however looking further into the suggestion of ssteinerX to use a
setup.py file to add the tools utility scripts to the pythonpath.
In the near future, another person will be helping me with programming
and thus, i want to make sure the structure is usable by other people
than myself.

Furthermore, i'm thinking if it wouldn't be cleaner to make such a setup.py
file per script, at least the bigger, more important scripts.
Now my structure is like this:

python_scripts
|
|-->trunk
......|-----> all scripts
......|-----> tools

The python_scripts directory and subdirs are versioned via SVN.
I think these steps would help:

1. Make a package of tools.
2. Put the bigger scripts in a seperate directory also using a setup.py file.
3. If possible, put the other scripts that somehow belong together in a seperate
directory. Names need to be more clear but i'm just illustrating a point.

python_scripts
|
|-->trunk
......|-----> my big script 1
................|-----> setup.py
......|-----> my big script 2
................|-----> setup.py
......|-----> database
................|-----> database script 1
................|-----> database script 2
......|-----> tools
................|-----> setup.py

Does that look like a clear structure?

Thanks,
Benedict




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:38:00 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:38:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> it's great that you provide the kind
> of help that you did, pointing out a probably very good module that it seems
> gives the required functionality, and giving an URL.

Yes, because that's _actually helping people_ and not just
contributing the usual self-serving pontificating nonsense that just
_flows_ from your goddamn mouth like a river of effluent
psuedotruths.

If you really wanted to help you would've cited _actual security
flaws_ in your first response  to me, instead of hand waving us away
to once again do the leg work of verification. Based on your postings
here, you regularly don't have the time or inclination to back up some
of the bizarre claims you make. It would actually improve the signal
in this channel a lot if you just chose not to make those posts at all.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:40:22 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Union of class variables
References: <07320890-98ae-4b11-b6c8-f8ab5b43dd43@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0ab616a3-f507-487e-abb5-be0929d05117@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 6:16?pm, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is possible to get a third class with the class variables of another
> two classes?
>
> --------
> class A:
> ? ? foo = 1
>
> class B:
> ? ? bar = 2
> --------

Through multiple inheritance?

  >>> class C(A, B):
  ...   pass
  ...
  >>> C.foo
  1
  >>> C.bar
  2


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 03:52:37 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:52:37 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hldmgh$ahc$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> it's great that you provide the kind
>> of help that you did, pointing out a probably very good module that it seems
>> gives the required functionality, and giving an URL.
> 
> Yes, because that's _actually helping people_ and not just
> contributing the usual self-serving pontificating nonsense that just
> _flows_ from your goddamn mouth like a river of effluent
> psuedotruths.

That's an off-topic personal attack, and it's completely untrue.

You're wasting bandwidth.


> If you really wanted to help you would've cited _actual security
> flaws_ in your first response  to me, instead of hand waving us away
> to once again do the leg work of verification.

Posting two ranting and raving articles complaining about 1 (one) line or so in 
an earlier article, just because you personally wouldn't want to know that, 
that's a total waste of the reader's time.

Disregarding the negative emotional adjectives you add everywhere, it's a good 
heuristic to post what you would want to know.

I would want to know that a service is started, that it's designed for net based 
administration by Microsoft, and that so it might constitute a security risk.

And so I added that information, each point of which is relevant. If you don't 
want to know about the "probably" little thing you can just skim over it. If 
you're unable to do that then something's wrong with you.


> Based on your postings
> here, you regularly don't have the time or inclination to back up some
> of the bizarre claims you make. It would actually improve the signal
> in this channel a lot if you just chose not to make those posts at all.

That an off-topic personal attack, and it's completely untrue.

Another poster (not me) has described you in an article here as a sockpuppet 
(false identity being in reality another poster here) and a troll; I believe at 
least the troll bit.

It would reduce the noise level a bit if you stopped contributing noise like above.


Cheers,

- Alf


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Feb 16 03:55:50 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:55:50 +0100
Subject: Printing with raw_input
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d78cb048-338d-4eef-a5be-d971e65f43cf@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlbda7$73r$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d4ab53de1002150511r2686a97cudb886f9688b4737e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hldmim$dev$1@ger.gmane.org>

Shashwat Anand wrote:

> raw_input uses sys.stderr I guess ?

I had a look at the C code, but it's a bit confusing.

If I'm reading it correctly the prompt is written to the "real" stderr if 
and only if sys.stdin and sys.stdout are attached to a terminal.

$ python -c"raw_input('prompt\n')" 2>tmp.txt
foo
$ cat tmp.txt
prompt
$ python -c"raw_input('prompt\n')" 2>tmp.txt | cat
foo
prompt
$ cat tmp.txt

I wonder if that is intentional.

Peter




From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:59:19 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:59:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Union of class variables [Solved]
References: <07320890-98ae-4b11-b6c8-f8ab5b43dd43@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<0ab616a3-f507-487e-abb5-be0929d05117@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a1b9ed21-e904-4944-9973-73c322b3b21f@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 16 feb, 08:40, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 6:16?pm, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is possible to get a third class with the class variables of another
> > two classes?
>
> > --------
> > class A:
> > ? ? foo = 1
>
> > class B:
> > ? ? bar = 2
> > --------
>
> Through multiple inheritance?
>
> ? >>> class C(A, B):
> ? ... ? pass
> ? ...
> ? >>> C.foo
> ? 1
> ? >>> C.bar
> ? 2

Yes! It solves the problem :) Thanks!


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 16 04:01:08 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:01:08 +1100
Subject: Union of class variables
References: <07320890-98ae-4b11-b6c8-f8ab5b43dd43@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871vgld06j.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> Is possible to get a third class with the class variables of another
> two classes?

Multiple inheritance is allowed in Python:

    class Baz(Foo, Bar):
        pass

However, it leads to complications that you likely don't want, e.g.
<URL:http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=246341>.

Is it *really* the case that the new class is best expressed by an IS-A
relationship to *both* the others? (?Every Baz IS-A Foo; every Baz IS-A
Bar?)

You should consider composition, instead. Decide which other class
represents the more general case of the new class, and give it
additional capabilities through a HAS-A relationship. (?Every Baz IS-A
Foo; every Baz HAS-A Bar?)

    class Baz(Foo):

        def __init__(self):
            self.bar = Bar()

That way, you keep the clarity of single inheritance and additional
capabilities are accessed through an attribute.

-- 
 \        ?Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code |
  `\     will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live.? ?John |
_o__)                                                         F. Woods |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 16 04:04:45 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:04:45 +1100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87wrydblg2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> writes:

> Yes, because that's _actually helping people_ and not just
> contributing the usual self-serving pontificating nonsense that just
> _flows_ from your goddamn mouth like a river of effluent psuedotruths.

I can't see what improvement you hope to achieve by sending something
like this. If, instead, you just want to vent cathartically, this isn't
the place to do it.

Please, don't send the above kind of vitriol to this public forum.
Better yet, compose it in your editor, bask in what you've written, then
delete it unsent.

-- 
 \        ?Kill myself? Killing myself is the last thing I'd ever do.? |
  `\                                            ?Homer, _The Simpsons_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From gawade.ninad at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 05:43:09 2010
From: gawade.ninad at gmail.com (danin)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:43:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: finding contents from string
Message-ID: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
        I am looking for particular solution. I am having one string
say:
string- "http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?
hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106178526636832397420.00047fb46fa8d02481f09&ll=20.730428,86.456909&spn=2.178194,3.526611&z=8
"
          and from this string  i need to extract value
-20.730428,86.456909. These value are dynamic so i cant use filter. So
can anyone please tell me about how to do this.


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 05:57:59 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:57:59 +0000
Subject: finding contents from string
References: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2635xjvm0.fsf@googlemail.com>

danin <gawade.ninad at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi all,
>         I am looking for particular solution. I am having one string
> say:
> string- "http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?
> hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106178526636832397420.00047fb46fa8d02481f09&ll=20.730428,86.456909&spn=2.178194,3.526611&z=8
> "
>           and from this string  i need to extract value
> -20.730428,86.456909. These value are dynamic so i cant use filter. So
> can anyone please tell me about how to do this.

In Python 2.5:

>>> import urlparse
>>> url='http://www.example.com/foo?bar=42&spam=eggs'
>>> parsed_url = urlparse.urlparse(url)
>>> parsed_url.query
'bar=42&spam=eggs'
>>> import cgi
>>> parsed_query = cgi.parse_qs(parsed_url.query)
>>> parsed_query
{'bar': ['42'], 'spam': ['eggs']}

In Python >= 2.6, parse_qs lives in the urlparse module as well.

-- 
Arnaud


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Feb 16 06:00:06 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:00:06 +0100
Subject: finding contents from string
References: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hldtrn$dg5$02$1@news.t-online.com>

danin wrote:

> Hi all,
>         I am looking for particular solution. I am having one string
> say:
> string- "http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?
> 
hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106178526636832397420.00047fb46fa8d02481f09&ll=20.730428,86.456909&spn=2.178194,3.526611&z=8
> "
>           and from this string  i need to extract value
> -20.730428,86.456909. 

Where does the "-" come from?

> These value are dynamic so i cant use filter. 

I don't understand.

> So can anyone please tell me about how to do this.

>>> from urlparse import urlparse, parse_qs
>>> parse_qs(urlparse(string).query)["ll"][0]
'20.730428,86.456909'

Peter


From spam.buster at web.de  Tue Feb 16 06:25:36 2010
From: spam.buster at web.de (Lars Behrens)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:25:36 +0100
Subject: finding contents from string
References: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hldvbg$la2$1@news.belwue.de>

danin wrote:

> can anyone please tell me about how to do this.

Now come on, you have to give a *bit* more information. What have you done 
so far? What did you plan? What are the rules for finding the string?

-- 
Cheerz Lars


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 07:16:58 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:16:58 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters
Message-ID: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I normally use IDLE on Win, but recently needed to go to command prompt 
to see all error messages. When I did, I was greeted by a host of 
deprecation and Numpy messages before things got running. The program 
otherwise functioned OK, after I found the problem I was after. Are 
these messages a warning to get to the next update of numpy?

I would guess that updating to a higher update does not mean I need to 
remove the old one, correct?

In general for libraries like numpy or scipy, I use win32 updates, but I 
see win32-p3 updates too on download pages. Since I may be distributing 
this program to p3 machines, will I need to provide the win32-p3 updates 
to those users?



From news123 at free.fr  Tue Feb 16 07:18:16 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:18:16 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Thanks for your answers,




The security wouldn't be a concern, as I would run while being only
accessible by trusted hosts.

I don't use the script often, so if it would start a WMI service during
runtime and stop it afterwards it would be fine.

I just wonder whether installing another 3rd party package for just
listing all services s worth the effort.


In my current case I'll go probably for parsing the output of
"sc.exe query" or I'll traverse the registry.

currently I just want to get a list of the names of the running services.


bye


N



Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * alex23:
>> News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>>
>>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>>
>>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>>> as well.
>>
>> I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].
> 
> It's probably Very Good, but one Microsoft-thing one should be aware of:
> using WMI functionality generally starts up a background WMI service...
> 
> Similarly, starting the standard clipboard viewer (discontinued in
> Windows Vista) starts up a silly copy-clipboard-contents-over-network
> service.
> 
> On a low-range machine the WMI service can be a resource concern.
> 
> I don't know whether the WMI service is a security concern (it probably
> is, considering IIS and anything Microsoft+Network and that WMI is meant
> to administrate machines over network, it's an enterprise thing not a
> personal computer user thing), but the clipboard service is, as I
> recall, a concern.
> 
> 
>>     >>> import wmi
>>     >>> c = wmi.WMI()
>>     >>> services = c.Win32_Service()
>>     >>> s = services[0]
>>     >>> s
>>     <_wmi_object: \\LIB-D5NYF1S\root
>> \cimv2:Win32_Service.Name="Alerter">
>>     >>> s.properties
>>     {u'DisplayName': None, u'ServiceSpecificExitCode': None, u'State':
>> None, u'Syste
>>     mName': None, u'ErrorControl': None, u'Status': None,
>> u'ProcessId': None, u'Desc
>>     ription': None, u'Started': None, u'AcceptStop': None,
>> u'CheckPoint': None, u'Pa
>>     thName': None, u'WaitHint': None, u'Name': None, u'InstallDate':
>> None, u'Caption
>>     ': None, u'StartMode': None, u'DesktopInteract': None,
>> u'ServiceType': None, u'T
>>     agId': None, u'StartName': None, u'AcceptPause': None,
>> u'CreationClassName': Non
>>     e, u'SystemCreationClassName': None, u'ExitCode': None}
>>     >>> s.Name
>>     u'Alerter'
>>     >>> s.Started
>>     False
>>     >>> s.ServiceType
>>     u'Share Process'
>>
>> 1: http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/index.html
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Alf


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 07:19:15 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:19:15 -0800
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
Message-ID: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>

See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.


From vaayu at ymail.com  Tue Feb 16 07:25:45 2010
From: vaayu at ymail.com (Praveen Boppana)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:55:45 +0530 (IST)
Subject: finding contents from string
In-Reply-To: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <66498.7222.qm@web95303.mail.in2.yahoo.com>

It looks like you want to extract the query parameters from standard url's. There is a standard Python module to accomplish this:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/module-urlparse.html



________________________________
From: danin <gawade.ninad at gmail.com>
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Tue, 16 February, 2010 4:13:09 PM
Subject: finding contents from string

Hi all,
        I am looking for particular solution. I am having one string
say:
string- "http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?
hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106178526636832397420.00047fb46fa8d02481f09&ll=20.730428,86.456909&spn=2.178194,3.526611&z=8
"
          and from this string  i need to extract value
-20.730428,86.456909. These value are dynamic so i cant use filter. So
can anyone please tell me about how to do this.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Feb 16 07:29:36 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:29:36 +0000
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B7A8FB0.2060901@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/02/2010 12:18, News123 wrote:
> I don't use the script often, so if it would start a WMI service during
> runtime and stop it afterwards it would be fine.

FWIW -- your other considerations notwithstanding -- I'm not aware
of WMI having this effect. Generally you can assume that the WMI
services are running (or not, if someone's shut them off) but
I've never heard of them being started up by virtue of a call
to the WMI subsystem and then stopped afterwards.

That said, I'd be interested if someone did have a pointer for this;
worth putting a caveat in the docs if that were the case.

TJG


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 07:37:46 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:46 +0000
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <m21vgljqzp.fsf@googlemail.com>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.

Here are a few ways.

>>> a = [1,4,9,3]
>>> max_index = max(xrange(len(a)), key=a.__getitem__)
>>> max_index
2
>>> # Or:
... max_index = max((n, i) for i, n in enumerate(a))[1]
>>> max_index
2
>>> # Or:
... from itertools import *
>>> max_index = max(izip(a, count()))[1]
>>> max_index
2

-- 
Arnaud


From steve at lonetwin.net  Tue Feb 16 07:38:09 2010
From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:08:09 +0530
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net>

On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.

The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?

cheers,
- steve


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 07:41:36 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:41:36 +0000
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<m21vgljqzp.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <m2wrydic8v.fsf@googlemail.com>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:
>
>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>
> Here are a few ways.

[...]

My copy past went wrond and I forgot the first one:

>>> a = [1,4,9,3]
>>> max_index = a.index(max(a))
>>> max_index
2

-- 
Arnaud


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 07:48:09 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:48:09 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Tim Golden:
> On 16/02/2010 12:18, News123 wrote:
>> I don't use the script often, so if it would start a WMI service during
>> runtime and stop it afterwards it would be fine.
> 
> FWIW -- your other considerations notwithstanding -- I'm not aware
> of WMI having this effect. Generally you can assume that the WMI
> services are running (or not, if someone's shut them off) but
> I've never heard of them being started up by virtue of a call
> to the WMI subsystem and then stopped afterwards.
> 
> That said, I'd be interested if someone did have a pointer for this;
> worth putting a caveat in the docs if that were the case.
> 
> TJG

I just googled the filename from memory, found

   <url: http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/wmiprvse.exe.html>

Don't know if I've disabled it because invoking wmic didn't produce it.

Uh, wait, since it hosts the provider service(s), perhaps...

Yes, 'wmic service list brief' which actually retrieves some information (I 
guess it can be anything, I remembered this from listing process command lines) 
started an [wmprvse.exe] process.

It terminated after the query/usage, but as I recall in some cases it doesn't.

I don't know how that works with programmatic access, but it's worth checking out.


Cheers,

- Alf


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Feb 16 08:01:26 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:01:26 +0000
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B7A9726.7080304@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/02/2010 12:48, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I just googled the filename from memory, found
>
>     <url: http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/wmiprvse.exe.html>
>
> Don't know if I've disabled it because invoking wmic didn't produce it.
>
> Uh, wait, since it hosts the provider service(s), perhaps...
>
> Yes, 'wmic service list brief' which actually retrieves some information (I
> guess it can be anything, I remembered this from listing process command lines)
> started an [wmprvse.exe] process.
>
> It terminated after the query/usage, but as I recall in some cases it doesn't.
>
> I don't know how that works with programmatic access, but it's worth checking out.

Thanks. As I understand it, you're not talking about a *service* starting up
or shutting down; rather a *process* starting up etc., presumably controlled
by the underlying service?

I'll do some further research to see what's going on there.

TJG


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 08:51:22 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:51:22 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Tim Golden:
> On 16/02/2010 12:48, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> I just googled the filename from memory, found
>>
>>     <url: http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/wmiprvse.exe.html>
>>
>> Don't know if I've disabled it because invoking wmic didn't produce it.
>>
>> Uh, wait, since it hosts the provider service(s), perhaps...
>>
>> Yes, 'wmic service list brief' which actually retrieves some 
>> information (I
>> guess it can be anything, I remembered this from listing process 
>> command lines)
>> started an [wmprvse.exe] process.
>>
>> It terminated after the query/usage, but as I recall in some cases it 
>> doesn't.
>>
>> I don't know how that works with programmatic access, but it's worth 
>> checking out.
> 
> Thanks. As I understand it, you're not talking about a *service* 
> starting up
> or shutting down; rather a *process* starting up etc., presumably 
> controlled
> by the underlying service?

It doesn't seem to provide ordinary Windows "service"s, but it's a bit unclear 
since e.g. the URL above says


<quote>
Beginning with Windows XP, WMI resides in a shared service host with several 
other services. To avoid stopping all the services when a provider fails, 
providers are loaded into a separate host process named Wmiprvse.exe. Multiple 
instances of Wmiprvse.exe can run at the same time under different accounts: 
LocalSystem, NetworkService or LocalService. The WMI core WinMgmt.exe is loaded 
into the shared Local Service host named Svchost.exe.
Note: wmiprvsw.exe is the Sasser worm!

Note: The wmiprvse.exe file is located in the folder C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem. 
In other cases, wmiprvse.exe is a virus, spyware, trojan or worm! Check this 
with Security Task Manager.
</quote>


Checking for ordinary Windows services:

<example>
C:\test> (wmic service list >nul) & tasklist /svc /fi "imagename eq wmiprvse.exe"

Image Name                   PID Services
========================= ====== =============================================
wmiprvse.exe                1076 N/A

C:\test> _
</example>



> I'll do some further research to see what's going on there.

Cheers,

- Alf (is this off-topic for the group?)


From leo at lspace.org  Tue Feb 16 08:56:45 2010
From: leo at lspace.org (Leo Breebaart)
Date: 16 Feb 2010 13:56:45 GMT
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>

Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:

> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> wrote:
>
> > I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
> > FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
> > (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
> > FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
> > [...]
> > But, since this information is the same for every instance of
> > each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
> > the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
> > these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
> > can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
> 
> Metaclasses to the rescue!:
> 
> class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
>     def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
>         klass =3D type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
>         klass.template_filename =3D "%s.tmpl" % name
>         klass.template_body =3D read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
>         return klass
> 
> class Foo(object):
>     __metaclass__ =3D WithTemplateAttrs
>     #rest of class body here
> 
> Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
> automatically get the attributes generated.

Thanks for the feedback! I am thrilled that an actual real-life
issue I'm having may be resolvable by metaclasses (which so far
I've only admired from afar but never considered relevant to my
day-to-day work), but unfortunately I'm still struggling to get
this to work.

If I add your code, what happens is that the Foo class will try
to read "Foo.tmpl", which does not exist -- it is only the
derived classes FooA etc, that need to execute this code, not Foo
itself.

And actually that makes sense -- I think my problem was not too
clearly thought out to begin with. Of course it's not possible to
associate a single template_body with the Foo class, it will be a
different template for each derived class. So at best I need to
associate your metaclass with each derived class, but at that
point I might as well just read the template in the __init__()
method with __class__.__name__, and use lazy evaluation / caching
to avoid doing the actual file-reading work more than once.

I think.

-- 
Leo Breebaart  <leo at lspace.org>


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Feb 16 08:56:48 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:56:48 +0000
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hle86u$28e$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/16/10 13:51, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
<cut>
> - Alf (is this off-topic for the group?)
Strictly speaking yes, but I do find it interesting and there is nothing 
wrong with ignoring posts you don't like to read.

-- 
mph



From rludwinowski at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 09:37:00 2010
From: rludwinowski at gmail.com (rludwinowski)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:37:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Implicit __init__ execution in multiple inheritance
Message-ID: <776abfc7-f57b-4630-9077-8ac1e4ee1c6e@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        print("A__init__")

class B:
    def __init__(self):
        print("B__init__")

class C(A, B):
    pass

C()

>> A__init__

Why __init__ class B will not be automatic executed?


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 09:38:51 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:38:51 +0000
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>

Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> writes:

> Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
>> > FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
>> > (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
>> > FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
>> > [...]
>> > But, since this information is the same for every instance of
>> > each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
>> > the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
>> > these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
>> > can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
>> 
>> Metaclasses to the rescue!:
>> 
>> class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
>>     def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
>>         klass =3D type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
>>         klass.template_filename =3D "%s.tmpl" % name
>>         klass.template_body =3D read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
>>         return klass
>> 
>> class Foo(object):
>>     __metaclass__ =3D WithTemplateAttrs
>>     #rest of class body here
>> 
>> Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
>> automatically get the attributes generated.
>
> Thanks for the feedback! I am thrilled that an actual real-life
> issue I'm having may be resolvable by metaclasses (which so far
> I've only admired from afar but never considered relevant to my
> day-to-day work), but unfortunately I'm still struggling to get
> this to work.
>
> If I add your code, what happens is that the Foo class will try
> to read "Foo.tmpl", which does not exist -- it is only the
> derived classes FooA etc, that need to execute this code, not Foo
> itself.
>
> And actually that makes sense -- I think my problem was not too
> clearly thought out to begin with. Of course it's not possible to
> associate a single template_body with the Foo class, it will be a
> different template for each derived class. So at best I need to
> associate your metaclass with each derived class, but at that
> point I might as well just read the template in the __init__()
> method with __class__.__name__, and use lazy evaluation / caching
> to avoid doing the actual file-reading work more than once.
>
> I think.

Descriptors to the rescue :)

def read_body_from(filename):
    print "** loading content **"
    return "<content of '%s'>" % filename

# This is a kind of class property
class TemplateFilename(object):
    def __get__(self, obj, cls):
        return "%s.tmpl" % cls.__name__

# And this is a kind of cached class property
class TemplateBody(object):
    def __get__(self, obj, cls):
        try:
            return cls._body
        except AttributeError:
            cls._body = read_body_from(cls.template_filename)
            return cls._body

class Foo(object):
    template_filename = TemplateFilename()
    template_body = TemplateBody()

class FooA(Foo):
   pass

class FooB(Foo):
   pass

# In action:
>>> FooA.template_filename
'FooA.tmpl'
>>> FooB.template_filename
'FooB.tmpl'
>>> FooA.template_body
** loading content **
"<content of 'FooA.tmpl'>"
>>> FooA.template_body
"<content of 'FooA.tmpl'>"
>>> foob = FooB()
>>> foob.template_filename
'FooB.tmpl'
>>> foob.template_body
** loading content **
"<content of 'FooB.tmpl'>"
>>> foob.template_body
"<content of 'FooB.tmpl'>"

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 09:47:32 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:47:32 +0000
Subject: Implicit __init__ execution in multiple inheritance
References: <776abfc7-f57b-4630-9077-8ac1e4ee1c6e@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2ljeti6ez.fsf@googlemail.com>

rludwinowski <rludwinowski at gmail.com> writes:

> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print("A__init__")
>
> class B:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print("B__init__")
>
> class C(A, B):
>     pass
>
> C()
>
>>> A__init__
>
> Why __init__ class B will not be automatic executed?

Because it's documented behaviour?  By default, at initialisation, an
instance of C will go up the method resolution order and only execture
the first __init__() method found.  If you want to change this, you have
to do it explicitely within the __init__ method(s) of the parent
class(es).  E.g. try this (assuming Python 3 syntax):

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        super().__init__()
        print("A__init__")

class B:
    def __init__(self):
        super().__init__()
        print("B__init__")

class C(A, B):
    pass

C()


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 09:51:34 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0500
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>


On Feb 16, 2010, at 3:28 AM, Benedict Verheyen wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:29:05 +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
>> 
>>> However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a
>>> script in there, how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within
>>> the database subdirectory? This fails:
>>>    from tools.logutils import logger
>> 
>> Sounds like you need to ensure that the top level directory needs to be 
>> added to your PYTHONPATH.
>> 
>> Do you need instructions to do this?
>> 
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> 
> thanks, i think i know how to add the top level directory to the PYTHONPATH.
> 
> I'm however looking further into the suggestion of ssteinerX to use a
> setup.py file to add the tools utility scripts to the pythonpath.
> In the near future, another person will be helping me with programming
> and thus, i want to make sure the structure is usable by other people
> than myself.
> 
> Furthermore, i'm thinking if it wouldn't be cleaner to make such a setup.py
> file per script, at least the bigger, more important scripts.
> Now my structure is like this:
> 
> python_scripts
> |
> |-->trunk
> ......|-----> all scripts
> ......|-----> tools
> 
> The python_scripts directory and subdirs are versioned via SVN.
> I think these steps would help:
> 
> 1. Make a package of tools.
> 2. Put the bigger scripts in a seperate directory also using a setup.py file.
> 3. If possible, put the other scripts that somehow belong together in a seperate
> directory. Names need to be more clear but i'm just illustrating a point.
> 
> python_scripts
> |
> |-->trunk
> ......|-----> my big script 1
> ................|-----> setup.py
> ......|-----> my big script 2
> ................|-----> setup.py
> ......|-----> database
> ................|-----> database script 1
> ................|-----> database script 2
> ......|-----> tools
> ................|-----> setup.py
> 
> Does that look like a clear structure?

No.

Make one setup.py at the top, put related scripts (like database) into separate sub-modules, so they can all be imported off a common 'trunk' as you have it above i.e. as trunk.database.xxx.

Then use entry points for any command line scripts.

Slightly harder, to setup initially but much cleaner to use and maintain and, it all installs with one call to setup.py develop.

S



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb 16 10:00:28 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:00:28 +0100
Subject: Using class attributes
In-Reply-To: <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>
	<m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7AB30C.2020806@sequans.com>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> writes:
>
>   
>> Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>>
>>     
>>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
>>>> FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
>>>> (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
>>>> FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
>>>> [...]
>>>> But, since this information is the same for every instance of
>>>> each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
>>>> the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
>>>> these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
>>>> can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
>>>>         
>>> Metaclasses to the rescue!:
>>>
>>> class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
>>>     def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
>>>         klass =3D type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
>>>         klass.template_filename =3D "%s.tmpl" % name
>>>         klass.template_body =3D read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
>>>         return klass
>>>
>>> class Foo(object):
>>>     __metaclass__ =3D WithTemplateAttrs
>>>     #rest of class body here
>>>
>>> Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
>>> automatically get the attributes generated.
>>>       
>> Thanks for the feedback! I am thrilled that an actual real-life
>> issue I'm having may be resolvable by metaclasses (which so far
>> I've only admired from afar but never considered relevant to my
>> day-to-day work), but unfortunately I'm still struggling to get
>> this to work.
>>
>> If I add your code, what happens is that the Foo class will try
>> to read "Foo.tmpl", which does not exist -- it is only the
>> derived classes FooA etc, that need to execute this code, not Foo
>> itself.
>>
>> And actually that makes sense -- I think my problem was not too
>> clearly thought out to begin with. Of course it's not possible to
>> associate a single template_body with the Foo class, it will be a
>> different template for each derived class. So at best I need to
>> associate your metaclass with each derived class, but at that
>> point I might as well just read the template in the __init__()
>> method with __class__.__name__, and use lazy evaluation / caching
>> to avoid doing the actual file-reading work more than once.
>>
>> I think.
>>     
>
> Descriptors to the rescue :)
>
> def read_body_from(filename):
>     print "** loading content **"
>     return "<content of '%s'>" % filename
>
> # This is a kind of class property
> class TemplateFilename(object):
>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>         return "%s.tmpl" % cls.__name__
>
> # And this is a kind of cached class property
> class TemplateBody(object):
>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>         try:
>             return cls._body
>         except AttributeError:
>             cls._body = read_body_from(cls.template_filename)
>             return cls._body
>
> class Foo(object):
>     template_filename = TemplateFilename()
>     template_body = TemplateBody()
>
> class FooA(Foo):
>    pass
>
> class FooB(Foo):
>    pass
>
> # In action:
>   
>>>> FooA.template_filename
>>>>         
> 'FooA.tmpl'
>   
>>>> FooB.template_filename
>>>>         
> 'FooB.tmpl'
>   
>>>> FooA.template_body
>>>>         
> ** loading content **
> "<content of 'FooA.tmpl'>"
>   
>>>> FooA.template_body
>>>>         
> "<content of 'FooA.tmpl'>"
>   
>>>> foob = FooB()
>>>> foob.template_filename
>>>>         
> 'FooB.tmpl'
>   
>>>> foob.template_body
>>>>         
> ** loading content **
> "<content of 'FooB.tmpl'>"
>   
>>>> foob.template_body
>>>>         
> "<content of 'FooB.tmpl'>"
>
> HTH
>
>   
While all these proposals are giving interesting technical anwsers to 
the OP problem, I think that the OP original code is still the best (_imo_).

  class Foo(object):
      def __init__(self):
          self.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % self.__class__.__name__
          self.template_body = read_body_from(self.template_filename)


That is true  the same attributes are defined for every instance, but, 
honestly, who cares ? (unless you target the best class design 2010 
price :-) )
This solution beat the others in terms of simplicity and readability.

It's still usefull to train your mind with decorators and metaclasses 
though, they can save your life eventually.

JM


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb 16 10:12:36 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:12:36 +0100
Subject: Implicit __init__ execution in multiple inheritance
In-Reply-To: <m2ljeti6ez.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <776abfc7-f57b-4630-9077-8ac1e4ee1c6e@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2ljeti6ez.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4b7ab5e5$0$23314$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Arnaud Delobelle a ?crit :
> rludwinowski <rludwinowski at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> class A:
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         print("A__init__")
>>
>> class B:
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         print("B__init__")
>>
>> class C(A, B):
>>     pass
>>
>> C()
>>
>>>> A__init__
>> Why __init__ class B will not be automatic executed?
> 
> Because it's documented behaviour?  By default, at initialisation, an
> instance of C will go up the method resolution order and only execture
> the first __init__() method found.

Note to the OP : Python's "methods" are attributes, so the normal 
attribute lookup rules apply - which is why the lookup stops at the 
first (in _mro_ order) '__init__' method found.



From paul at subsignal.org  Tue Feb 16 10:14:22 2010
From: paul at subsignal.org (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Paul_K=F6lle?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:14:22 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <1266271943.4299.2887.camel@brain>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
	<hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1266271943.4299.2887.camel@brain>
Message-ID: <hlecoe$nh7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Am 15.02.2010 23:12, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
[...]
>> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior
>> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit
>> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
>> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.
>
> Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check if
> your "implementation" comply with the "interface".
Which is a good thing IMO ;)

> Here is one solution I came up with.
[...]
Can you post working code? It's not clear what "pbus" is and how it works.

cheers
  Paul


> What do you think? Any obvious pitfalls (besides reinventing something)?
>
> Please keep in mind that syntax/api is not "done" or anything its just
> an concept presentation.
>
> Thanks,
> Florian
>
>
>




From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 10:15:49 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:15:49 +0000
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net> <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1266332443.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2hbphi53u.fsf@googlemail.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> writes:
[...]
> While all these proposals are giving interesting technical anwsers to
> the OP problem, I think that the OP original code is still the best
> (_imo_).
>
>  class Foo(object):
>      def __init__(self):
>          self.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % self.__class__.__name__
>          self.template_body = read_body_from(self.template_filename)
>
>
> That is true  the same attributes are defined for every instance, but,
> honestly, who cares ? (unless you target the best class design 2010
> price :-) )

You might care if you have many instances but few classes, and the size
of template_body is significant.  Although with this design it is
possible to cache template bodies within the 'read_body_from' function
if necessary.

Also I was under the impression that the OP wanted these attribute to be
accessible from the class object as well.

-- 
Arnaud


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 10:30:29 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:30:29 -0600
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters
In-Reply-To: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hledmk$qf9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-16 06:16 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> I normally use IDLE on Win, but recently needed to go to command prompt
> to see all error messages. When I did, I was greeted by a host of
> deprecation and Numpy messages before things got running. The program
> otherwise functioned OK, after I found the problem I was after. Are
> these messages a warning to get to the next update of numpy?
>
> I would guess that updating to a higher update does not mean I need to
> remove the old one, correct?
>
> In general for libraries like numpy or scipy, I use win32 updates, but I
> see win32-p3 updates too on download pages. Since I may be distributing
> this program to p3 machines, will I need to provide the win32-p3 updates
> to those users?

You will definitely want to ask these questions on the numpy-discussion mailing 
list. They are numpy-specific. Please copy-and-paste the messages that you get.

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 10:34:51 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:34:51 -0800
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
In-Reply-To: <m2wrydic8v.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<m21vgljqzp.fsf@googlemail.com> <m2wrydic8v.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hledus$4nq$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/16/2010 4:41 AM, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Arnaud Delobelle<arnodel at googlemail.com>  writes:
>
>> "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>>
>>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>>
>> Here are a few ways.
>
> [...]
>
> My copy past went wrond and I forgot the first one:
>
>>>> a = [1,4,9,3]
>>>> max_index = a.index(max(a))
>>>> max_index
> 2
>
Ah, the good one for last! Thanks.


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 10:35:26 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:35:26 -0500
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <87wrydblg2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<87wrydblg2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <7137165D-34E6-4015-AD09-C26CD9677E55@gmail.com>

On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Ben Finney wrote:

> Please, don't send the above kind of vitriol to this public forum.
> Better yet, compose it in your editor, bask in what you've written, then delete it unsent.

+1

If you kids want to have some sort of pissing-in-your-sockpuppet type of contest to see who can out-whatever each other, do it off-list and don't waste everyone else's time with.

What ever happened to "don't feed the trolls" ??  If you really believe someone's trolling, don't answer, block them, and move on.  

Providing a lengthy, well-reasoned reply only shows that they've pulled you into the troll pit for a fight with them, regardless of whether you're "right."

S



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 10:37:28 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:37:28 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/16/2010 7:30 AM, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-16 06:16 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> I normally use IDLE on Win, but recently needed to go to command prompt
>> to see all error messages. When I did, I was greeted by a host of
>> deprecation and Numpy messages before things got running. The program
>> otherwise functioned OK, after I found the problem I was after. Are
>> these messages a warning to get to the next update of numpy?
>>
>> I would guess that updating to a higher update does not mean I need to
>> remove the old one, correct?
>>
>> In general for libraries like numpy or scipy, I use win32 updates, but I
>> see win32-p3 updates too on download pages. Since I may be distributing
>> this program to p3 machines, will I need to provide the win32-p3 updates
>> to those users?
>
> You will definitely want to ask these questions on the numpy-discussion
> mailing list. They are numpy-specific. Please copy-and-paste the
> messages that you get.
>
> http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists
>
Good idea, for the first part of this. I would think "In genera for ..." 
would be answerable here, but I'll give them both a shot.

I'll post what I find here, as a follow up.


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Feb 16 10:38:24 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:38:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<88a7ff43-3f1d-4e30-ad50-59b6c2f215f7@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5f3d2058-40ec-415e-8ad4-7e28b98fb304@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 14 Feb, 19:41, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I ditto the profiling recommendation.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/profile.html

(To the original inquirer...) Try this, too:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/Profiling

If you have the tools, it's a lot easier than scanning through tables
of times.

Paul


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb 16 10:54:00 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:54:00 -0500
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlef3k$n5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[...]
>> I'll do some further research to see what's going on there.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Alf (is this off-topic for the group?)

It's gone a lot further off than this without anyone complaining.  I
think your experiences to date should convince you that you can rely on
being told when you drift too far off-topic :)

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:35:07 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:35:07 -0600
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters
In-Reply-To: <hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlehfp$a4k$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-16 09:37 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 2/16/2010 7:30 AM, Robert Kern wrote:
>> On 2010-02-16 06:16 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>> I normally use IDLE on Win, but recently needed to go to command prompt
>>> to see all error messages. When I did, I was greeted by a host of
>>> deprecation and Numpy messages before things got running. The program
>>> otherwise functioned OK, after I found the problem I was after. Are
>>> these messages a warning to get to the next update of numpy?
>>>
>>> I would guess that updating to a higher update does not mean I need to
>>> remove the old one, correct?
>>>
>>> In general for libraries like numpy or scipy, I use win32 updates, but I
>>> see win32-p3 updates too on download pages. Since I may be distributing
>>> this program to p3 machines, will I need to provide the win32-p3 updates
>>> to those users?
>>
>> You will definitely want to ask these questions on the numpy-discussion
>> mailing list. They are numpy-specific. Please copy-and-paste the
>> messages that you get.
>>
>> http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists
>>
> Good idea, for the first part of this. I would think "In genera for ..."
> would be answerable here, but I'll give them both a shot.

Both parts are very numpy/scipy-specific, trust me. The reason that numpy has 
binary releases for Pentium 3 machines is because we have SSE code of various 
levels due to our accelerated BLAS libraries. This is very rare outside of numpy 
and scipy.

And please provide the information that I asked for over in numpy-discussion.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:35:09 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:35:09 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlehft$aoc$1@ger.gmane.org>

ssteinerX at gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 16, 2010, at 3:28 AM, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
<snip>

>> python_scripts
>> |
>> |-->trunk
>> ......|-----> my big script 1
>> ................|-----> setup.py
>> ......|-----> my big script 2
>> ................|-----> setup.py
>> ......|-----> database
>> ................|-----> database script 1
>> ................|-----> database script 2
>> ......|-----> tools
>> ................|-----> setup.py
>>
>> Does that look like a clear structure?
> 
> No.
> 
> Make one setup.py at the top, put related scripts (like database) into separate sub-modules,
> so they can all be imported off a common 'trunk' as you have it above i.e. as trunk.database.xxx.
> 
> Then use entry points for any command line scripts.
> 
> Slightly harder, to setup initially but much cleaner to use and maintain and, it all installs with one call to setup.py develop.
> 
> S

Hhhm, i can see how it makes the maintenance cleaner.
However, in the case of a single setup.py, i will end up installing scripts on servers
that will never use them, only some.
As with making egg files for the bigger scripts, you will only install what's needed.
Then again, the script are small so in that respect it doesn't really matter.

How would i best distribute it? Via the single setup.py or building an egg from the
setup.py or plain copying the files to the server?
The code is company specific so nobody else will benefit from it.

Thanks,
Benedict




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb 16 11:45:04 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:45:04 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <hlehft$aoc$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>	<EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>
	<hlehft$aoc$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B7ACB90.7070502@sequans.com>

Benedict Verheyen wrote:
> ssteinerX at gmail.com wrote:
>   
>> On Feb 16, 2010, at 3:28 AM, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
>>     
> <snip>
>
>   
>>> python_scripts
>>> |
>>> |-->trunk
>>> ......|-----> my big script 1
>>> ................|-----> setup.py
>>> ......|-----> my big script 2
>>> ................|-----> setup.py
>>> ......|-----> database
>>> ................|-----> database script 1
>>> ................|-----> database script 2
>>> ......|-----> tools
>>> ................|-----> setup.py
>>>
>>> Does that look like a clear structure?
>>>       
>> No.
>>
>> Make one setup.py at the top, put related scripts (like database) into separate sub-modules,
>> so they can all be imported off a common 'trunk' as you have it above i.e. as trunk.database.xxx.
>>
>> Then use entry points for any command line scripts.
>>
>> Slightly harder, to setup initially but much cleaner to use and maintain and, it all installs with one call to setup.py develop.
>>
>> S
>>     
>
> Hhhm, i can see how it makes the maintenance cleaner.
> However, in the case of a single setup.py, i will end up installing scripts on servers
> that will never use them, only some.
>   
You should care about this only if your scripts exceeed a faire amount 
of Ko.
Are you sure you've written Mo of python code ?

JM


From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:52:29 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:52:29 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <4B7ACB90.7070502@sequans.com>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>	<EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>	<hlehft$aoc$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B7ACB90.7070502@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hleigc$e9f$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Benedict Verheyen wrote:
<snip>

>> Hhhm, i can see how it makes the maintenance cleaner.
>> However, in the case of a single setup.py, i will end up installing
>> scripts on servers
>> that will never use them, only some.
>>   
> You should care about this only if your scripts exceeed a faire amount
> of Ko.
> Are you sure you've written Mo of python code ?
> 
> JM

Nope and i indicated that before:

"Then again, the script are small so in that respect it doesn't really matter."

Regards,
Benedict



From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:53:42 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:53:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<87eikmc9va.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <f4227e39-4678-483e-97b1-57136de730b7@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 2:17?am, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
> > it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
> > the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
> > understand fully how minimock works.
>
> I'm not sure why you think you need to keep track of the order of
> imports.
>
> Simply set up the mocks as you want them, in your fixtures; then, when
> tearing down your fixtures, use ?minimock.restore()? to restore the
> affected namespaces to their initial state.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ? ?? one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was |
> ? `\ ? ? ? ?that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?termination of their C programs.? ?Robert Firth |
> Ben Finney

Hi Ben!

See these two topics:
http://groups.google.com/group/minimock-dev/browse_thread/thread/bcbb3b7cc60eb96f
http://groups.google.com/group/minimock-dev/browse_thread/thread/c41cd996735ea1a6

There are special cases, which you have to be aware of, if you use
minimock.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb 16 11:59:59 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:59:59 -0500
Subject: Using class attributes
In-Reply-To: <7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <hleiu9$g2j$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/16/2010 8:56 AM, Leo Breebaart wrote:
> Chris Rebert<clp2 at rebertia.com>  writes:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart<leo at lspace.org>  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
>>> FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
>>> (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
>>> FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
>>> [...]
>>> But, since this information is the same for every instance of
>>> each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
>>> the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
>>> these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
>>> can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
>>
>> Metaclasses to the rescue!:
>>
>> class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
>>      def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
>>          klass =3D type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
>>          klass.template_filename =3D "%s.tmpl" % name
>>          klass.template_body =3D read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
>>          return klass
>>
>> class Foo(object):
>>      __metaclass__ =3D WithTemplateAttrs
>>      #rest of class body here
>>
>> Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
>> automatically get the attributes generated.
>
> Thanks for the feedback! I am thrilled that an actual real-life
> issue I'm having may be resolvable by metaclasses (which so far
> I've only admired from afar but never considered relevant to my
> day-to-day work),

I thought this a really nice example of metaclass use too.

 > but unfortunately I'm still struggling to get
> this to work.
>
> If I add your code, what happens is that the Foo class will try
> to read "Foo.tmpl", which does not exist -- it is only the
> derived classes FooA etc, that need to execute this code, not Foo
> itself.

My simpleminded solution to the above would be to create a dummy 
Foo.tmpl file, so it does exist. Or, in __new__ above, conditionalize 
the fetch: if name != 'Foo': ...

Terry Jan Reedy



From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:08:00 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:08:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 9:56?pm, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lacrima wrote:
> > Thanks for your reply! Isn't what you are talking about integration
> > tests? And unit tests should be fully isolated? So even for method
> > 'some_method()' of class A I should mock instance of class A (i.e. to
> > mock 'self') to test 'some_method()'.
>
> "Unit test" is a high-end QA concept. Developers can get the best
> return on "developer tests". They don't bother with aerospace-quality
> isolation between units.
>
> If a TDD test needs to pull in a bunch of modules to pass, that's
> generally a good thing, because they all get indirect testing. If they
> catch a bug, their local tests might not catch it, but the higher
> level tests still have a chance.
>
> (And if your product still needs unit tests, TDD will make them very
> easy for a formal QA team to add.)
>
> However, expensive setup is a design smell. That means if a test case
> requires too many lines of code for its Assemble phase (before its
> Activate and Assert phases), then maybe those lines of code support
> objects that are too coupled, and they need a better design.
>
> Throwing mocks at these objects, instead of decoupling them, will
> "perfume" the design smell, instead of curing it.
>
> > > "construction encapsulation")
> > And could you give an example.
>
> ? def test_frob(self):
> ? ? ? frob = Frob()
> ? ? ? frob.knob = Mock()
> ? ? ? frob.knob.value = Mock(return_value = 42)
> ? ? ? assert 42 == frob.method_using_knob()
>
> We need the mock because we can't control how Frob's constructor built
> its knob. So instead, give Frob the option to construct with a Knob:
>
> ? def test_frob(self):
> ? ? ? knob = Knob(42)
> ? ? ? frob = Frob(knob)
> ? ? ? assert frob.method_using_knob()
>
> Note that in production the Knob constructor never takes a Knob. Maybe
> we should upgrade the production code too (!), or maybe Knob's
> constructor should only create a knob if it didn't get passed one.
> Either technique is acceptable, because the resulting code decouples
> Frobs and Knobs just a little bit more.
>
> > For me it's really hard to develop test first. Often I don't know what
> > tests to write to replace hardcoded return values by objects that
> > perform actual work.
>
> You have read too many books on TDD. C-:
>
> Alternate between writing lines of test and lines of code. Run the
> tests after the fewest possible edits, and always correctly predict if
> the tests will pass, or will fail, and with what diagnostic. (And
> configure your editor to run the stankin tests, no matter how hard it
> fights you!) The high-end tricks will get easier after you get the
> basic cycle down.
>
> --
> ? Phlip
> ?http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand

Hi Phlip!

Thanks for your exhaustive answer.
Actually, I'll investigate your example with 'frob'. From just reading
the example it's not clear for me what I will benefit, using this
approach.
And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
looks like a great waste of time.


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:38:09 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:38:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <07d50b9f-c4bb-4d49-82d0-bd6d1c2e42be@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 9:08?am, Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your exhaustive answer.
> Actually, I'll investigate your example with 'frob'. From just reading
> the example it's not clear for me what I will benefit, using this
> approach.

I can't get a good hit for "construction encapsulation" in Google.
(Although I got some good bad ones!)

This paper _almost_ gets the idea:
http://www.netobjectives.com/download/Code%20Qualities%20and%20Practices.pdf

> And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
> looks like a great waste of time.

Do you run your tests after the fewest possible edits? Such as 1-3
lines of code?

I'm not sure why the TDD books don't hammer that point down...

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Feb 16 13:20:03 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:20:03 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2597.1266271949.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
	<hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2597.1266271949.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7u05ulFfmkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 15.02.10 23:12, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>> Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've
>> seen)
>>> approach:
>>>
>>> You need to define something like:
>>> |
>>> | class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
>>> |
>>> in your blog software.
>>
>> Why? Any reason you can't define it in a separate package the
>> blog-software depends on, as well as your wiki?
>
> That's actually my point - most plugin systems I've seen, like the one
> trac uses, are not encouraging you to do so. Having a module that just
> defines an Interface is kind of weird - and in the real world no one is
> doing it.

Just because nobody doesn't do it doesn't mean it's not desirable. IMHO 
the ones using interfaces usually immediatly implement them for some 
cases - so you actually get the interface for you authentication 
framework, and also implement an OpenID plugin for it. And this forms 
one package. Then you can add new packages that implement other things.

repoze.who and what are examples for such design.


>
>> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior
>> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit
>> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
>> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.
>
> Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check if
> your "implementation" comply with the "interface".

I didn't say nobody does it, I just said it isn't needed to get a 
working plugin system. If you don't want to have a separate package 
*and* don't want to pull in any unused code, this is pretty much your 
only option.

> Here is one solution I came up with. Based on the earlier example:
>>>      Lets say you program a wiki and like to allow different kind of
>>>      authentications. So you create two plugins (for example one for
>>>      OpenID and one for Shibboleth).
>>>
>>>       Some time later you feel like reinventing the wheel again and
>>>       you program a blog. Again you like to allow different ways of
>>>       authentication and you already wrote plugins for exactly the
>>>        same for your wiki, right?
>
> auth_openid.py - providing the authentication service
> http://dpaste.com/hold/159619/
>
> wiki.py - providing the wiki
> http://dpaste.com/hold/159634/
>
> Now putting both together:
>
>> import pbus
>>
>> import wiki
>> import auth_openid
>> # or: import auth_shibboleth
>>
>> pbus.get("wiki").run()
>
> No interface definitions.
>
>
> What do you think? Any obvious pitfalls (besides reinventing something)?

I don't know what pbus is supposed to do. Nor how it's laid out on a 
python package level.

Diez


From caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca  Tue Feb 16 13:32:51 2010
From: caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca (Casey Hawthorne)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:32:51 -0800
Subject: Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell,
	will there be such a connection between Python and Haskell?
Message-ID: <t3pln5dilpl922ffssjf5bh5dqrakccorp@4ax.com>

Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection
between Python and Haskell?
--
Regards,
Casey


From caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca  Tue Feb 16 13:38:41 2010
From: caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca (Casey Hawthorne)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:38:41 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
	have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
Message-ID: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>

Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-death.html
--
Regards,
Casey


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 13:58:27 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:58:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavac7u8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <8bc76e9f-be88-43db-9792-205621b93364@t1g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>

Hey all, thanks as always for the quick responses.

I actually found a very simple way to do what I needed to do. In
short, I needed to take an email which had a large number of addresses
in the 'to' field, and place just the identifiers (everything to the
left of @domain.com), in a python list.

I simply highlighted all the addresses and placed them in a text file
called emails.txt. Then I had the following code which placed each
line in the file into the list 'names':

[code]
fileHandle = open('/Users/Matt/Documents/python/results.txt','r')
names = fileHandle.readlines()
[/code]

Now, the 'names' list has values looking like this: ['aaa12 at domain.com
\n', 'bbb34 at domain.com\n', etc]. So I ran the following code:

[code]
for x in names:
    st_list.append(x.replace('@domain.com\n',''))
[/code]

And that did the trick! 'Names' now has ['aaa12', 'bbb34', etc].

Obviously this only worked because all of the domain names were the
same. If they were not then based on your comments and my own
research, I would've had to use regex and the split(), which looked
massively complicated to learn.

Thanks all.

Matt

On Feb 15, 8:01?pm, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> writes:
> > I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
> > email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
> > characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.
>
> Email addresses can have more than one ?@? character. In fact, the
> quoting rules allow the local-part to contain *any ASCII character* and
> remain valid.
>
> > Any suggestions would be much appeciated!
>
> For a brief but thorough treatment of parsing email addresses, see RFC
> 3696, ?Application Techniques for Checking and Transformation of Names?
> <URL:http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3696.txt>, specifically section 3.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ? ? ??What I have to do is see, at any rate, that I do not lend |
> ? `\ ? ? ?myself to the wrong which I condemn.? ?Henry Thoreau, _Civil |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Disobedience_ |
> Ben Finney



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 14:41:58 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:41:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
wrote:
> Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
> have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
>
> http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de...
> --
> Regards,
> Casey

Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
point?"

I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
statements, for crying out loud use a def? And who needs those "do-
end" blocks anyway, trying to turn Python into Pascal?


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 16 14:44:45 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Feb 2010 11:44:45 -0800
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net>
Message-ID: <hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4B7A91B1.6030301 at lonetwin.net>, steve  <steve at lonetwin.net> wrote:
>On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>
>The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?

The disadvantage of that is that it's O(2N) instead of O(N).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From dino at phidev.org  Tue Feb 16 14:50:39 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:50:39 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <hlecoe$nh7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain> <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <1266271943.4299.2887.camel@brain>
	<hlecoe$nh7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1266349839.10498.240.camel@brain>

On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 16:14 +0100, Paul K?lle wrote:
> Am 15.02.2010 23:12, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> > On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior
> >> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any
> >> explicit
> >> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
> >> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.
> >
> > Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check 
> > if your "implementation" comply with the "interface".

> Which is a good thing IMO ;)

Type checking might be good but not pythonic - imo. The problem with
having interfaces needed to be declared (and therefore the possibility
to check) is as I outlined in my first mail:
 Where to put those interface descriptions if you want both sides
pluggable? You probably end up depending on other modules/projects just
to import the interfaces.

> > Here is one solution I came up with.
> [...]
> Can you post working code? It's not clear what "pbus" is and how it
> works.

Oh, sorry. The idea is similar to "d-bus" - hence the name. Its "the
communcation system". The code is pretty simple and quick. Please
remember its just to show of the concept not to use it in any production
software or anything.

Instead of using classes as connecting-piece I thought using strings
(maybe path "/plugin/wiki" or "org.example.wiki") might solve my
problem. It might be possible to add optional interface validation
though.


pbus.py - just a simple concept implementation of a framework
http://dpaste.com/hold/159980/

auth_openid.py - providing the authentication service
http://dpaste.com/hold/159619/

wiki.py - providing the wiki
http://dpaste.com/hold/159634/

Now putting both together:

> import pbus
>
> import wiki
> import auth_openid
> # or: import auth_shibboleth
>
> pbus.get("wiki").run()



-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Feb 16 14:53:18 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:53:18 +0000
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
In-Reply-To: <hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net>
	<hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B7AF7AE.6040401@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/02/2010 19:44, Aahz wrote:
> In article<4B7A91B1.6030301 at lonetwin.net>, steve<steve at lonetwin.net>  wrote:
>> On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>>
>> The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?
>
> The disadvantage of that is that it's O(2N) instead of O(N).

<Tongue-in-cheek> Well you could do this:

a.sort ()
return -1

TJG


From nagle at animats.com  Tue Feb 16 15:15:05 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:15:05 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
Message-ID: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

    In the beginning, Python had some types which were "frozen", and some which
weren't.  Now, there's a trend towards having both "frozen" and "unfrozen"
versions of built-in types.  We now have "frozen" and "unfrozen" sets,
dictionaries, and byte arrays.  It's becoming clear that that the concept of 
"frozen" is separate from the type involved.

    Maybe "frozen" should be generalized, so that all "unfrozen" objects also
have "frozen" versions.

    I'd suggest
	
	p = freeze(q)

which would generate a "frozen" copy of q.  (For lists, this would
return a tuple.  For unfrozen sets, a frozen set.  Etc.)

	p = deepfreeze(q)

would generate "frozen" deep copy of q, for which each object it references
is also a "frozen" copy.

For objects,

	class c(frozenobject) :
		def __init__(self, someparam) :
			self.p = someparam
		...

would result in a class which returns frozen objects from the constructor.

    In concurrent programs, frozen objects can be shared without locking.
This simplifies locking considerably.  This may provide a way to get out
from the Global Interpreter Lock.  One possible implementation would be
to have unfrozen objects managed by reference counting and locking as
in CPython.  Frozen objects would live in a different memory space and be
garbage collected by a concurrent garbage collector.

    If we add "synchronized" objects with built-in locking, like Java,
threading becomes much cleaner.

	class d(synchronized) :
		...

A typical "synchronized" object would be a queue.  Anything with
state shared across threads has to be synchronized.  Only one
thread at a time can be active within a synchronized object,
due to a built-in implicit lock.

Semantics of synchronized objects:

	"Synchronized" objects cannot be frozen.  Trying to freeze
	them just returns the object.

	If a thread blocks on an explicit "wait", the synchronized
	object is temporarily unlocked during the "wait".  This
	allows threads to wait for, say, a queue to get another
	entry from another thread.

If only synchronized objects and frozen objects can be shared across
threads, the GIL becomes unnecessary.  Big performance win on multicore
CPUs.

    "Synchronized" was a pain in Java because Java doesn't have "frozen"
objects.  Too much effort went into synchronizing little stuff.  But
in a language with frozen objects, the little stuff would be frozen,
and wouldn't need its own locks.

    Threaded programs that already use queue objects to communicate with
each other are almost ready for this kind of architecture now.  If
the queue class made a frozen copy of any unfrozen, unsynchronized
copy placed on a queue, conversion to this approach could be almost
automatic.

    What would probably happen in practice is that potential race conditions in
existing programs would raise "unshareable object" exceptions,
indicating that something needed to be synchronized.  That's a good thing.
This approach makes threading much easier for the typical programmer.
Instead of race conditions and random errors, you get error messages.

    And we get rid of the GIL.

    I look at this as Python's answer to multicore CPUs and "Go".

					John Nagle


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 15:15:11 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:15:11 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2618.1266335733.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2618.1266335733.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hleuge$sc2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> [...]
>>> I'll do some further research to see what's going on there.
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Alf (is this off-topic for the group?)
> 
> It's gone a lot further off than this without anyone complaining.  I
> think your experiences to date should convince you that you can rely on
> being told when you drift too far off-topic :)

Some old folks' music, Eternity's Breath & Stratus; the guy playing is 65:

   <url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMH6WH9gyCc>

Hip hoppers may skip the 80 seconds complicated intro.

It is relevant in a way, although very indirectly. For although the comment did 
not pop up here, many Satch videos (this is not Satch) have comments like "How 
on Earth can he remember all those notes?"

And he doesn't.

It's not memorization: one can't create at this level by memorizing notes or rules.

It's an understanding of the tool one uses and what one wants to create and the 
basic themes, and in this video it's also the synergy effect of four people 
doing that, creating together something they can't quite believe they're doing, 
so you have four madly grinning world class musicians  --  and audience... :-)


- Alf


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Feb 16 15:15:30 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:15:30 -0600
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
In-Reply-To: <8bc76e9f-be88-43db-9792-205621b93364@t1g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>	<87aavac7u8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<8bc76e9f-be88-43db-9792-205621b93364@t1g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7AFCE2.7080708@tim.thechases.com>

galileo228 wrote:
> [code]
> fileHandle = open('/Users/Matt/Documents/python/results.txt','r')
> names = fileHandle.readlines()
> [/code]
> 
> Now, the 'names' list has values looking like this: ['aaa12 at domain.com
> \n', 'bbb34 at domain.com\n', etc]. So I ran the following code:
> 
> [code]
> for x in names:
>     st_list.append(x.replace('@domain.com\n',''))
> [/code]
> 
> And that did the trick! 'Names' now has ['aaa12', 'bbb34', etc].
> 
> Obviously this only worked because all of the domain names were the
> same. If they were not then based on your comments and my own
> research, I would've had to use regex and the split(), which looked
> massively complicated to learn.

The complexities stemmed from several factors that, with more 
details, could have made the solutions less daunting:

   (a) you mentioned "finding" the email addresses -- this makes 
it sound like there's other junk in the file that has to be 
sifted through to find "things that look like an email address". 
If the sole content of the file is lines containing only email 
addresses, then "find the email address" is a bit like [1]

   (b) you omitted the detail that the domains are all the same. 
  Even if they're not the same, (a) reduces the problem to a much 
easier task:

   s = set()
   for line in file('results.txt'):
     s.add(line.rsplit('@', 1)[0].lower())
   print s

If it was previously a CSV or tab-delimited file, Python offers 
batteries-included processing to make it easy:

   import csv
   f = file('results.txt', 'rb')
   r = csv.DictReader(f)  # CSV
   # r = csv.DictReader(f, delimiter='\t') # tab delim
   s = set()
   for row in r:
     s.add(row['Email'].lower())
   f.close()

or even

   f = file(...)
   r = csv.DictReader(...)
   s = set(row['Email'].lower() for row in r)
   f.close()

Hope this gives you more ideas to work with.

-tkc

[1]
http://jacksmix.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/findx.jpg





From nad at acm.org  Tue Feb 16 15:26:29 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:26:29 -0800
Subject: shelve.open generates (22,
	'Invalid argument')  Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5
References: <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-B0881F.12262816022010@ger.gmane.org>

In article 
<7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482 at r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
 seth <hklasky at gmail.com> wrote:
> We have a code that creates a simple Python shelve database. We are
> able to serialize objects and store them in the dbm file. This seem to
> work the same on Windows XP Python 2.5, Ubuntu 9.1 with Python 2.6,
> but on Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5 the database filename is changed by
> the operating system by attaching the .db extension to it. Does an one
> know why is that?

It's a documented "feature": it depends on the underlying database 
package used by shelve.

http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html

"As a side-effect, an extension may be added to the filename ..."

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 16 15:30:42 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:30:42 +1100
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lacrima <lacrima.maxim at gmail.com> writes:

> And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
> looks like a great waste of time.

It only looks like that until you chase your tail in a long, fruitless
debugging session because (you later realise) the behaviour of one test
is being affected by another. Test isolation is essential to ensure that
your tests are doing what you think they're doing.

-- 
 \       ?A ?No? uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater |
  `\       than a ?Yes? merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to |
_o__)                              avoid trouble.? ?Mohandas K. Gandhi |
Ben Finney


From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 16 15:31:33 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:31:33 -0500
Subject: A fix for pylab and TkAgg plotting in SAGE (Mac OS X)
Message-ID: <pecora-D38B2A.15313316022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

A few weeks ago I posted a problem with Mac OS X with matplotlib in the 
SAGE distribution in which attempting to import pylab gave an error 
message which stated that there was an import error and the module 
_tkagg could not be found. The problem appears to be with matplotlib 
(I'm not clear about this).  After much searching and some emailing I 
have found a solution to this problem and it is easy to do.  

Full credit goes to Eric Sonnendrucker who sent it to me.

Here it is:

1) Download the Tcl/Tk sources (go to http://www.tcl.tk/, click on Get 
Tcl/Tk Now, click on Sources Download Page,, download the latest 
version).

2) In the Terminal cd to the unix folder in the tcl folder.  Compile the 
unix version (of Tcl and Tk) as follows 
./configure --enable-framework --disable-xft
make
make install

3) Install SAGE from source.  Download the SAGE source code (go to 
http://www.sagemath.org/, click on Download, click on Download complete 
source code).  In the terminal cd to the SAGE folder and *before* you 
run the sage install you need to set

SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI=True

using export SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI=True with bash. The installer then 
picks it up automatically.

Complete the SAGE installation by typing make and hit return. That's it. 
This will take a while (up to a few hours depending on the computer).

4) You might also need to modify you matplotlibrc by setting 
backend='TkAgg'  after the installation


Test this by doing an import pylab in sage.  You should not get an error.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 16:12:51 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:12:51 -0500
Subject: Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection 
	between Python and Haskell?
In-Reply-To: <f3cc57c61002161149p250be637x2e3a5f48c7d91339@mail.gmail.com>
References: <t3pln5dilpl922ffssjf5bh5dqrakccorp@4ax.com>
	<f3cc57c61002161149p250be637x2e3a5f48c7d91339@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002161312r2c6a90a3scc7aaa4dfa923221@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I'll admit- my hand hovered over the 'initiate flamewar' button
for a moment before
I figured out what you were actually asking.

And I know I'm working on it, which probably means 8 or 9 others are as well.

Geremy Condra


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 16:23:48 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:23:48 -0800
Subject: Wrestling with the Py2exe Install, Win7, Py2.5
Message-ID: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I've finally decided to see if I could make an executable out of a py 
file. Win7. Py2.5. I brought down the install file and proceeded with 
the install. I got two warning messages. Forgot the first. The second 
said,"Could not set the key value." I again used OK. I think that was 
the only choice. It then issued a message in a larger dialog. It was 
about setting a key, and pointed me to a log. It mentions a Removepy2exe -u

Although it finished, I have no idea where the program is. It does not 
show up on the Start menu All Programs List nore my desktop. What's up?

I've had these messages (key) occur on other Python installs as I 
transition to Win7. So far no problem.



From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 16:37:30 2010
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:37:30 +0200
Subject: GIL state during import
Message-ID: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>

Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
file?
If not, is it a bug?
If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think it
should be mentioned in the documentation.

--doron
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From userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Feb 16 16:41:21 2010
From: userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk (rodmc)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:41:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shipping Executables
Message-ID: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
for people to hack into the code. Also where software requires some
security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this
correct?

Anyway I would appreciate any views or tips that people have?

Kind regards,

rod


From hklasky at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:03:55 2010
From: hklasky at gmail.com (seth)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:03:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: shelve.open generates (22, 'Invalid argument') Os X 10.5 with 
	Python 2.5
References: <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl9ev5$i2u$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c24b28ed-f25b-497b-9ea9-756306a7368b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 1:21 pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> Nope -- any reason you can't change the filename?
> --

Os X 10.5 did not recognized the dbm extension.

But, I have been able to fix the problem (hope it helps somebody):
At http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html it says:

"shelve.open(filename[, flag='c'[, protocol=None[,
writeback=False]]])?

    Open a persistent dictionary. The filename specified is the base
filename for the underlying database. As a side-effect, an extension
may be added to the filename and more than one file may be created. By
default, the underlying database file is opened for reading and
writing. "

Then, I went ahead and try to find out which type of db file was being
created:

print whichdb.whichdb(dbmFile)#prints bsddb185
kpfmac:xLPR kpf$ python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb  9 2009, 18:49:36)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import bsddb185
>>> bsddb185.open('realizations.db')
<bsddb.bsddb object at 0x12260>

I found that the dbm extension is generated by bsddb and bsddb3 so I
went ahead and installed it: sudo easy_install bsddb3.
Finally, in our code, I just went ahead and instead of using
shelve.open, I am calling shelve.BsdDbShelf(bsddb3.btopen(filename,
'c'))

        #realizations=shelve.open( filename, 'c', 2, writeback =
False )
        #hk 021010: need to use BsdDbShelf to ensure the usage of
bsddb3 on OsX 10.5
        #shelve.open creates a bsddb185 file on OsX 10.5
        #but shelve.open on OsX reads with bsddb3, who knows why...
        #as a result the shelve.open throws
        #<class 'bsddb.error'> (22, 'Invalid argument')
        dbshelf=shelve.BsdDbShelf(bsddb3.btopen(filename, 'c'))
        realizations=dbshelf

And that fixed on Os X 10.5. It also works fine on Windows, by
ensuring the proper import:
try:
    import bsddb3
except:
    import bsddb as bsddb3




From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:21:06 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:06 +0000
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net> <hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <m2d404izzh.fsf@googlemail.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <4B7A91B1.6030301 at lonetwin.net>, steve  <steve at lonetwin.net> wrote:
>>On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>>
>>The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?
>
> The disadvantage of that is that it's O(2N) instead of O(N).

:-)

Joke aside, even though you traverse the list twice, it may still be
quicker than other solutions because both max and list.index are C
functions and no intermediate object is constructed.

-- 
Arnaud


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:25:53 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:25:53 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002161425n1c187d41qdd33db1c584767bd@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:41 PM, rodmc <userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
> have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
> point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
> 100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
> it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
> for people to hack into the code.

If you mean that it is difficult to stop people from modifying the
source code, then you're correct. If you mean that python
programs are more likely to have security problems than, say,
C, I think its safe to assume that you're not correct about that.

> Also where software requires some
> security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this
> correct?

I've never had any reason to feel more concerned about the
code that I write in python, and I use it for crypto research.

> Anyway I would appreciate any views or tips that people have?

I'd worry about developing a product worth stealing before I
worried about people stealing it ;)

Geremy Condra


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:50:10 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:50:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <35d8fe79-4f3f-4742-ba0f-66e3b5a4c7bd@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 12:30?pm, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> writes:

> > And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
> > looks like a great waste of time.
>
> It only looks like that until you chase your tail in a long, fruitless
> debugging session because (you later realise) the behaviour of one test
> is being affected by another. Test isolation is essential to ensure that
> your tests are doing what you think they're doing.

That is runtime test isolation. It's not the same thing as "unit test
isolation". Just take care in your tearDown() to scrub your
environment.

Google "Mock abuse" from here...

--
  Phlip


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb 16 17:57:28 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:57:28 -0500
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <hlf7sn$q8u$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/16/2010 3:15 PM, John Nagle wrote:
> In the beginning, Python had some types which were "frozen",
 > and some which weren't.

In the beginning, there was only one 'frozen' general purpose collection 
type, the tuple. And Guido resisted the suggestion that lists and tuple 
were mutable and frozen versions of each other.

However, things have changed, and lists and tuple *are* effectively 
mutable and hashable versions of each other, and we have the three other 
pairs you mentioned. The idea of freeze() may have been floated (and 
punctured) during Py3 discussions, but I think it a fairly good one.

Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb 16 18:01:08 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:01:08 -0500
Subject: GIL state during import
In-Reply-To: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/16/2010 4:37 PM, Doron Tal wrote:
> Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
> file?
> If not, is it a bug?
> If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think
> it should be mentioned in the documentation.

The CPython GIL is a CPython implementation artifact and should not be 
mentioned in the language docs (and is not, as far as I know). Were you 
thinking of something else? And why this specific feature of its 
behavior, whatever it is.

tjr





From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 16 18:19:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Feb 2010 23:19:03 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate 0.2.2b
Message-ID: <4b7b27e7$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I am pleased to announce the beta release of obfuscate 0.2.2b.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/

The beta release does not contain any new functionality from the previous 
version, but includes bug fixes and many new tests.



obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.

obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
 - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
 - atbash
 - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
 - Railfence (encryption only)
 - Keyword
 - Affine
 - Vigenere
 - frob (xor)

and others.

DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used where
strong encryption is required.

obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.

Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.



From db3l.net at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 18:34:13 2010
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:34:13 -0500
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2aav84ux6.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>

alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> writes:

> News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>
>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>
>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>> as well.
>
> I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].

Another alternative is the win32service module from the pywin32
package (which IMO you'll almost certainly want available when doing
any significant Windows-specific operations) which wraps the native
win32 libraries for enumerating, querying and controlling services.

A simple loop could use EnumServicesStatus to iterate through the
services, OpenService with the SERVICE_QUERY_CONFIG flag to get a
handle to each service, and then QueryServiceConfig to retrieve
configuration information.

Since pywin32 is a relatively thin wrapper over the win32 libraries,
pure MSDN documentation can be used for help with the calls, augmented
by any Python-related information contained in the pywin32
documentation.

-- David


From xiajunyi at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 18:48:17 2010
From: xiajunyi at gmail.com (Imaginationworks)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:48:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
Message-ID: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
line in the text file.  Currently, the whole file was read into a
string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
questions are

1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'

2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
may suggest?

Thanks,

- Jeremy



===== Structured text file =================
Object1 = {

...

SubObject1 = {
....

SubSubObject1 = {
...
};
};

SubObject2 = {
....

SubSubObject21 = {
...
};
};

SubObjectN = {
....

SubSubObjectN = {
...
};
};
};


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 19:07:57 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavac7u8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<8bc76e9f-be88-43db-9792-205621b93364@t1g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2626.1266351343.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <814bb446-6fe5-42cb-9033-c330e74f6123@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Tim -

Thanks for this.  I actually did intend to have to sift through other
junk in the file, but then figured I could just cut and paste emails
directly from the 'to' field, thus making life easier.

Also, in this particular instance, the domain names were the same, and
thus I was able to figure out my solution, but I do need to know how
to handle the same situation when the domain names are different, so
your response was most helpful.

Apologies for leaving out some details.

Matt

On Feb 16, 3:15?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> galileo228 wrote:
> > [code]
> > fileHandle = open('/Users/Matt/Documents/python/results.txt','r')
> > names = fileHandle.readlines()
> > [/code]
>
> > Now, the 'names' list has values looking like this: ['aa... at domain.com
> > \n', 'bb... at domain.com\n', etc]. So I ran the following code:
>
> > [code]
> > for x in names:
> > ? ? st_list.append(x.replace('... at domain.com\n',''))
> > [/code]
>
> > And that did the trick! 'Names' now has ['aaa12', 'bbb34', etc].
>
> > Obviously this only worked because all of the domain names were the
> > same. If they were not then based on your comments and my own
> > research, I would've had to use regex and the split(), which looked
> > massively complicated to learn.
>
> The complexities stemmed from several factors that, with more
> details, could have made the solutions less daunting:
>
> ? ?(a) you mentioned "finding" the email addresses -- this makes
> it sound like there's other junk in the file that has to be
> sifted through to find "things that look like an email address".
> If the sole content of the file is lines containing only email
> addresses, then "find the email address" is a bit like [1]
>
> ? ?(b) you omitted the detail that the domains are all the same.
> ? Even if they're not the same, (a) reduces the problem to a much
> easier task:
>
> ? ?s = set()
> ? ?for line in file('results.txt'):
> ? ? ?s.add(line.rsplit('@', 1)[0].lower())
> ? ?print s
>
> If it was previously a CSV or tab-delimited file, Python offers
> batteries-included processing to make it easy:
>
> ? ?import csv
> ? ?f = file('results.txt', 'rb')
> ? ?r = csv.DictReader(f) ?# CSV
> ? ?# r = csv.DictReader(f, delimiter='\t') # tab delim
> ? ?s = set()
> ? ?for row in r:
> ? ? ?s.add(row['Email'].lower())
> ? ?f.close()
>
> or even
>
> ? ?f = file(...)
> ? ?r = csv.DictReader(...)
> ? ?s = set(row['Email'].lower() for row in r)
> ? ?f.close()
>
> Hope this gives you more ideas to work with.
>
> -tkc
>
> [1]http://jacksmix.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/findx.jpg



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb 16 19:19:07 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:19:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 11:41?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
> > have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
>
> >http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de...
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Casey
>
> Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
> linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
> block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
> statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
> point?"
>
> I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
> expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
> in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
> statements, for crying out loud use a def? And who needs those "do-
> end" blocks anyway, trying to turn Python into Pascal?

I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
nice feature for Python.

Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)

I became enlightened.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Tue Feb 16 19:22:40 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:22:40 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8DFBF31D-98D4-425B-A7D1-CC83E60AB02B@semanchuk.com>


On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:41 PM, rodmc wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
> have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
> point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
> 100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
> it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
> for people to hack into the code. Also where software requires some
> security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this
> correct?


Hi Rod,
The user's ability to hack into the code is usually considered one of  
the strengths of Python & open source software in general. Since most  
Python software that's distributed  is open source, you're doing  
something different than most. It'd help if you explain how you want  
your software to differ from a typical open source distribution. Do  
you not want people to change the code? Are you worried about your  
code & ideas being stolen?



bye
Philip


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Tue Feb 16 19:29:44 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:29:44 -0000
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u78wzuw6a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:48:17 -0000, Imaginationworks <xiajunyi at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> line in the text file.  Currently, the whole file was read into a
> string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
> questions are
>
> 1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
> list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'

The usual idiom is to process a line at a time, which avoids the memory  
overhead of reading the entire file in, creating the list, and so on.   
Assuming your input file is laid out as neatly as you said, that's  
straightforward to do:

for line in myfile:
     if "= {" in line:
         start_a_new_object(line)
     elif "};" in line:
         end_current_object(line)
     else:
         add_stuff_to_current_object(line)

You probably want more robust tests than I used there, but that depends on  
how well-defined your input file is.  If it can be edited by hand, you'll  
need to be more defensive!

> 2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
> may suggest?

That depends on what you mean by "extract the object information".  If you  
mean "get the object name", just split the line at the "=" and strip off  
the whitespace you don't want.  If you mean "track how objects are  
connected to one another, have each object keep a list of its immediate  
sub-objects (which will have lists of their immediate sub-objects, and so  
on); it's fairly easy to keep track of which objects are current using a  
list as a stack.  If you mean something else, sorry but my crystal ball is  
cloudy tonight.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From dyamins at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 19:29:55 2010
From: dyamins at gmail.com (Dan Yamins)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:29:55 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
Message-ID: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:

I'm wondering what the best way to wrap and modify function calls is.
Essentially what I want to achieve is to have a function like this:

def Wrap(frame,event,arg):
     if event == 'call':
        result = PerformCheck(GetArgumentsFromFrame(frame))
        if Condition(result):
            return result
        else:
            return [normal function call]

called whenever a "call" event is about to occur.

When I say "return result" I mean:  return that data object instead of what
the function would have returned, and prevent execution of the function.


Is there any way to do this using sys.settrace?  Or perhaps something from
the bdb or pbd module?

Thanks!
Dan
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From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 19:31:35 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:31:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
Message-ID: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

All,

My python program signs onto the student facebook at my school and,
given email addresses, returns the associated full name.  If I were to
do this through a regular browser, there is also a picture of the
individual, and I am trying to get my program to download the picture
as well. The problem: the html code of the page does not point to a
particular file, but rather refers to (what seems like) a query.

So, if one went to the facebook and searched for me using my school
net id (msb83), the image of my profile on the results page is:

<img width="100" height="130" border="0" class="border" alt="msb83"
src="deliverImage.cfm?netid=MSB83">

Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
following:

br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
br.select_form(nr = 1)

br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
me
br.submit()
results = br.response().read()
soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
foo3 = foo2.find('a')
foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
# this just drills down to the <img> line and   until this point the
program does not return an error

save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)

I get the following error msg after running this code:

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'

I can download the picture through my browser by right-clicking,
selecting save as, and then the image gets saved as
'deliverImage.cfm.jpeg.'

Are there any suggestions as to how I might be able to download the
image using python?

Please let me know if more information is needed -- happy to supply
it.

Matt


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 16 19:56:11 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Feb 2010 16:56:11 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlferb$ico$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0 at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Jonathan Gardner  <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
>
>I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
>nice feature for Python.
>
>Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
>with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
>I became enlightened.

+1 QOTW
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Tue Feb 16 20:14:43 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:14:43 -0800
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
In-Reply-To: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7B4303.2000301@islandtraining.com>

Imaginationworks wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> line in the text file.  Currently, the whole file was read into a
> string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
> questions are
>
> 1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
> list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'
>   

Yes.   Read the *whole* file into a single string using file.read() 
method, and then search through the string using string methods (for 
simple things) or use re, the regular expression module, (for more 
complex searches).     

Note:  There is a point where a file becomes large enough that reading 
the whole file into memory at once (either as a single string or as a 
list of strings) is foolish.    However, 30,000 lines doesn't push that 
boundary.
> 2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
> may suggest?
>   

Again, the re module has nice ways to find a pattern, and return parse 
out pieces of it.   Building a good regular expression takes time, 
experience, and a bit of black magic...    To do so for this case, we 
might need more knowledge of your format.  Also regular expressions have 
their limits.  For instance, if the sub objects can nest to any level, 
then in fact, regular expressions alone can't solve the whole problem, 
and you'll need a more robust parser.


> Thanks,
>
> - Jeremy
>
>
>
> ===== Structured text file =================
> Object1 = {
>
> ...
>
> SubObject1 = {
> ....
>
> SubSubObject1 = {
> ...
> };
> };
>
> SubObject2 = {
> ....
>
> SubSubObject21 = {
> ...
> };
> };
>
> SubObjectN = {
> ....
>
> SubSubObjectN = {
> ...
> };
> };
> };
>   



From john at castleamber.com  Tue Feb 16 20:48:11 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:11 -0600
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>

galileo228 <mattbarkan at gmail.com> writes:

> Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
> following:
>
> br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
> br.select_form(nr = 1)
>
> br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
> me
> br.submit()
> results = br.response().read()
> soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
> foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
> foo3 = foo2.find('a')
> foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
> # this just drills down to the <img> line and   until this point the
> program does not return an error
>
> save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
> urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)
>
> I get the following error msg after running this code:
>
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'

Wild guess, since you didn't provide line numbers, etc.

foo4 is None

(I also would like to suggest to use more meaningful names)

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 21:04:40 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:04:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection 
	between Python and Haskell?
References: <t3pln5dilpl922ffssjf5bh5dqrakccorp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <009d33cc-75da-4afe-9715-31e820ddc54e@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 10:32?am, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
wrote:
> Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection
> between Python and Haskell?

I would have expected Hubris to link Ada and Common Lisp together.


Carl Banks


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 16 21:11:15 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 02:11:15 GMT
Subject: Shipping Executables
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:41:21 -0800, rodmc wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
> have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
> point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
> 100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
> it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
> for people to hack into the code.

Looks like you are looking to apply the philosophy "No user serviceable 
parts inside".



> Also where software requires some
> security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this correct?

Absolutely 100% wrong. It is an fundamental principle of security that 
you must not assume that the enemy is ignorant of your procedures. 
"Security by obscurity" is not security at all.

See, for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs'_Principle

If you are trusting that your software will be secure because people 
cannot read the source code, you have already failed. Hackers break into 
computer systems without the source code as a matter of course: allowing 
the source to be available generally makes so little difference as to be 
no difference. Worse, keeping the source code secret *as a security 
measure* lulls people into a false sense of security, letting them use 
weak security confident that since nobody knows how weak it is, it will 
be strong. That's not how it works.

If you have other reasons for wanting to keep the source code secret, 
that's one thing. But doing it because it is more secure is foolish: 
software simply isn't more secure when supplied as a binary instead of 
source code.


> Anyway I would appreciate any views or tips that people have?

Don't worry about it. If your application is secure, it will be secure 
even if everybody knows how it works. If it's not secure, then the bad 
guys will learn how it works even without the source code.



-- 
Steven


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 21:40:11 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:40:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <24f36666-b31f-4921-a6c0-19405af003a5@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 8:48?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
> > following:
>
> > br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
> > br.select_form(nr = 1)
>
> > br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
> > me
> > br.submit()
> > results = br.response().read()
> > soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
> > foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
> > foo3 = foo2.find('a')
> > foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
> > # this just drills down to the <img> line and ? until this point the
> > program does not return an error
>
> > save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
> > urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)>


> > I get the following error msg after running this code:
>
> > AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'
>
> Wild guess, since you didn't provide line numbers, etc.
>
> foo4 is None
>
> (I also would like to suggest to use more meaningful names)
>
> --
> John Bokma ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? j3b


I thought it was too, and I just doublechecked.  It's actually

foo3 = foo2.find('a')

that is causing the NoneType error.

Thoughts?


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 21:54:58 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<24f36666-b31f-4921-a6c0-19405af003a5@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ecd9336b-0562-4e8f-baf4-5f381faf53eb@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 9:40?pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 8:48?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> writes:
> > > Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
> > > following:
>
> > > br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
> > > br.select_form(nr = 1)
>
> > > br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
> > > me
> > > br.submit()
> > > results = br.response().read()
> > > soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
> > > foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
> > > foo3 = foo2.find('a')
> > > foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
> > > # this just drills down to the <img> line and ? until this point the
> > > program does not return an error
>
> > > save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
> > > urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)>
> > > I get the following error msg after running this code:
>
> > > AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'
>
> > Wild guess, since you didn't provide line numbers, etc.
>
> > foo4 is None
>
> > (I also would like to suggest to use more meaningful names)
>
> > --
> > John Bokma ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? j3b
>
> I thought it was too, and I just doublechecked. ?It's actually
>
> foo3 = foo2.find('a')
>
> that is causing the NoneType error.
>
> Thoughts?

I've now fixed the foo3 issue, and I now know that the problem is with
the urllib.urlretrieve line (see above). This is the error msg I get
in IDLE:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/Matt/Documents/python/dtest.py", line 59, in <module>
    urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/urllib.py", line 94, in urlretrieve
    return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, data)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/urllib.py", line 226, in retrieve
    url = unwrap(toBytes(url))
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/urllib.py", line 1033, in unwrap
    url = url.strip()
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable

Is this msg being generated because I'm trying to retrieve a url
that's not really a file?


From cournape at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 22:04:33 2010
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:04:33 +0900
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5b8d13221002161904s55697ceay6c943e2022f81156@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Andrej Mitrovic
<andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
> linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
> block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
> statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
> point?"
>
> I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
> expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
> in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
> statements, for crying out loud use a def?

I think that's a bit of a strawman: the point made by the OP is that
it enables writing simple DSL easier, and the ruby's community seems
to value this. They are not advocating using anonymous functions where
"normal" functions would do.

cheers,

David


From john at castleamber.com  Tue Feb 16 22:11:24 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:11:24 -0600
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<24f36666-b31f-4921-a6c0-19405af003a5@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<ecd9336b-0562-4e8f-baf4-5f381faf53eb@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <877hqck143.fsf@castleamber.com>

galileo228 <mattbarkan at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 16, 9:40?pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> I've now fixed the foo3 issue, and I now know that the problem is with
> the urllib.urlretrieve line (see above). This is the error msg I get
> in IDLE:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/Matt/Documents/python/dtest.py", line 59, in <module>
>     urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 94, in urlretrieve
>     return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, data)
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 226, in retrieve
>     url = unwrap(toBytes(url))
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 1033, in unwrap
>     url = url.strip()
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
>
> Is this msg being generated because I'm trying to retrieve a url
> that's not really a file?

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>>> import urllib;
>>> urllib.urlretrieve(None)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/urllib.py", line 89, in urlretrieve
    return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, data)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/urllib.py", line 210, in retrieve
    url = unwrap(toBytes(url))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/urllib.py", line 1009, in unwrap
    url = url.strip()
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

To me it looks like you're still calling urlretrieve with None as a
first value.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Feb 16 22:14:33 2010
From: mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:14:33 +0000
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
In-Reply-To: <ecd9336b-0562-4e8f-baf4-5f381faf53eb@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>	<24f36666-b31f-4921-a6c0-19405af003a5@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<ecd9336b-0562-4e8f-baf4-5f381faf53eb@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7B5F19.8010705@mrabarnett.plus.com>

galileo228 wrote:
> On Feb 16, 9:40 pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 16, 8:48 pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
>>>> following:
>>>> br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
>>>> br.select_form(nr = 1)
>>>> br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
>>>> me
>>>> br.submit()
>>>> results = br.response().read()
>>>> soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
>>>> foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
>>>> foo3 = foo2.find('a')
>>>> foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
>>>> # this just drills down to the <img> line and   until this point the
>>>> program does not return an error
>>>> save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
>>>> urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)>
>>>> I get the following error msg after running this code:
>>>> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'
>>> Wild guess, since you didn't provide line numbers, etc.
>>> foo4 is None
>>> (I also would like to suggest to use more meaningful names)
>>> --
>>> John Bokma                                                               j3b
>> I thought it was too, and I just doublechecked.  It's actually
>>
>> foo3 = foo2.find('a')
>>
>> that is causing the NoneType error.
>>
>> Thoughts?
> 
> I've now fixed the foo3 issue, and I now know that the problem is with
> the urllib.urlretrieve line (see above). This is the error msg I get
> in IDLE:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/Matt/Documents/python/dtest.py", line 59, in <module>
>     urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 94, in urlretrieve
>     return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, data)
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 226, in retrieve
>     url = unwrap(toBytes(url))
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 1033, in unwrap
>     url = url.strip()
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
> 
> Is this msg being generated because I'm trying to retrieve a url
> that's not really a file?

It's because the URL you're passing in, namely foo4, is None. This is
presumably because foo3.find() returns None if it can't find the entry.

You checked the value of foo3, but did you check the value of foo4?


From tomf.sessile at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 23:44:09 2010
From: tomf.sessile at gmail.com (TomF)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:44:09 -0800
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net> <hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2010021620440950073-tomfsessile@gmailcom>

On 2010-02-16 11:44:45 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) said:
> In article <4B7A91B1.6030301 at lonetwin.net>, steve  <steve at lonetwin.net> wrote:
>> On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>> 
>>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>> 
>> The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?
> 
> The disadvantage of that is that it's O(2N) instead of O(N).

I don't think you understand order notation.   There's no such thing as O(2N).

To answer the original question, how about:
max(enumerate(l), key=lambda x: x[1])[0]
As to whether this is faster than index(max()), you'd have to time it.

-Tom



From nagle at animats.com  Wed Feb 17 00:09:27 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:09:27 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/16/2010 3:15 PM, John Nagle wrote:
>> In the beginning, Python had some types which were "frozen",
>  > and some which weren't.
> 
> In the beginning, there was only one 'frozen' general purpose collection 
> type, the tuple. And Guido resisted the suggestion that lists and tuple 
> were mutable and frozen versions of each other.
> 
> However, things have changed, and lists and tuple *are* effectively 
> mutable and hashable versions of each other, and we have the three other 
> pairs you mentioned. The idea of freeze() may have been floated (and 
> punctured) during Py3 discussions, but I think it a fairly good one.

    Yes, we're now at the point where all the built-in mutable types
have "frozen" versions.  But we don't have that for objects.  It's
generally considered a good thing in language design to offer,
for user defined types, most of the functionality of built-in ones.

    It's the concurrency aspect of this that interests me, though.
A language with immutable objects can potentially handle concurrency
more safely than one where everything is potentially mutable.
The language knows what can't change, which simplifies locking.

					John Nagle


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 17 00:52:04 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:52:04 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7xpr44pfy3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>> However, things have changed, and lists and tuple *are* effectively
>> mutable and hashable versions of each other...
>    It's the concurrency aspect of this that interests me, though.
> A language with immutable objects can potentially handle concurrency
> more safely than one where everything is potentially mutable.
> The language knows what can't change, which simplifies locking.

I wonder how well that applies to tuples containing mutable objects,
e.g.  t = ([1,2], [3,4])


From banibrata.dutta at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 01:10:42 2010
From: banibrata.dutta at gmail.com (Banibrata Dutta)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:40:42 +0530
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steven at remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> > security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this correct?
>
> Absolutely 100% wrong. It is an fundamental principle of security that
> you must not assume that the enemy is ignorant of your procedures.
> "Security by obscurity" is not security at all.
>
> See, for example:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs'_Principle
>
> I believe, the use of work 'security' wasn't the best choice to describe
the need, if I understand the original poster's intentions. The intentions
of original poster were "intellectual property protection", where-in they
have indeed created something worth stealing, and would like to put it under
lock-n-key. For that purpose, I do not think Python is the right choice.

BTW for people who are non-believers in something being worth stealing
needing protection, need to read about the Skype client.

-- 
regards,
Banibrata
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
http://twitter.com/edgeliving
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From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 17 01:17:25 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:17:25 +0100
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <7xpr44pfy3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xpr44pfy3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hlg1ph$2ri$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Paul Rubin:
> John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>>> However, things have changed, and lists and tuple *are* effectively
>>> mutable and hashable versions of each other...
>>    It's the concurrency aspect of this that interests me, though.
>> A language with immutable objects can potentially handle concurrency
>> more safely than one where everything is potentially mutable.
>> The language knows what can't change, which simplifies locking.
> 
> I wonder how well that applies to tuples containing mutable objects,
> e.g.  t = ([1,2], [3,4])

One would need a collection type that's immutable "all the way".

Current frozen types don't have that.

However, there's also the question of the immutability of what names refer to. 
It seems to me that this means that the compiler can't really assume very much 
without very deep analysis. And so, if it boils down to the programmer applying 
assumptions about mutability/constantness, then types may not be The Answer.


Cheers,

- Alf


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 02:00:59 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:00:59 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002162300if05bc57uf980667ab032314f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Banibrata Dutta
<banibrata.dutta at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steven at remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> > security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this correct?
>> Absolutely 100% wrong. It is an fundamental principle of security that
>> you must not assume that the enemy is ignorant of your procedures.
>> "Security by obscurity" is not security at all.
>>
>> See, for example:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs'_Principle
>>
> I believe, the use of work 'security' wasn't the best choice to describe the
> need, if I understand the original poster's intentions. The intentions of
> original poster were "intellectual property protection",

Which has little to do with the language in question.

> where-in they have
> indeed created something worth stealing, and would like to put it under
> lock-n-key. For that purpose, I do not think Python is the right choice.

Why?

> BTW for people who are non-believers in something being worth stealing
> needing protection, need to read about the Skype client.

Most of the people I know who were interested in REing skype were
a lot more interested in either interoperating with the protocol or ensuring
that skype wasn't deliberately including malware or a backdoor. In any
even I don't see this having anything to do with Python.

Geremy Condra


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 02:35:49 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 07:35:49 GMT
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.17.07.35.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:09:27 -0800, John Nagle wrote:

>     Yes, we're now at the point where all the built-in mutable types
> have "frozen" versions.  But we don't have that for objects.  It's
> generally considered a good thing in language design to offer, for user
> defined types, most of the functionality of built-in ones.


It's not hard to build immutable user-defined types. Whether they're 
immutable enough is another story :)



>>> class FrozenMeta(type):
...     def __new__(meta, classname, bases, classDict):
...         def __setattr__(*args):
...             raise TypeError("can't change immutable class")
...         classDict['__setattr__'] = __setattr__
...         classDict['__delattr__'] = __setattr__
...         return type.__new__(meta, classname, bases, classDict)
...
>>>
>>> class Thingy(object):
...     __metaclass__ = FrozenMeta
...     def __init__(self, x):
...         self.__dict__['x'] = x
...
>>>
>>>
>>> t = Thingy(45)
>>> t.x
45
>>> t.x = 42
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 4, in __setattr__
TypeError: can't change immutable class


It's a bit ad hoc, but it seems to work for me. Unfortunately there's no 
way to change __dict__ to a "write once, read many" dict.





-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 02:36:08 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 07:36:08 GMT
Subject: Shipping Executables
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2641.1266390065.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.17.07.36.09@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:00:59 -0500, geremy condra quoted Banibrata Dutta
<banibrata.dutta at gmail.com>:

>> BTW for people who are non-believers in something being worth stealing
>> needing protection, need to read about the Skype client.

Pardon me for breaking threading, but the original post has not come 
through to my provider, only the reply from Geremy.

Many things are worth stealing and therefore need protection.

In any case, reverse engineering software is not theft. And even if it 
were, keeping the source code secret is no barrier to a competent, 
determined attacker or investigator. Skype is a good example: despite the 
lack of source code and the secret protocol, analysts were able to 
discover that TOM-Skype sends personally identifiable information, 
encryption keys and private messages back to central servers.

In my personal opinion, releasing closed source software is prima facie 
evidence that the software is or does something bad: leaking personal 
information, infringing somebody else's copyright or patent, or just 
being badly written. I'm not saying that every piece of closed source 
software is like that, but when you hide the source, the burden of proof 
is on you to prove that you're not hiding something unpleasant.



-- 
Steven


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 17 02:38:30 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:38:30 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <f3cc57c61002161425n1c187d41qdd33db1c584767bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<f3cc57c61002161425n1c187d41qdd33db1c584767bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlg6eu$s6a$1@ger.gmane.org>

geremy condra wrote:
[...]
> I'd worry about developing a product worth stealing before I
> worried about people stealing it ;)
> 
> Geremy Condra

+1 FAQ entry!

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 17 02:39:43 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:39:43 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <8DFBF31D-98D4-425B-A7D1-CC83E60AB02B@semanchuk.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8DFBF31D-98D4-425B-A7D1-CC83E60AB02B@semanchuk.com>
Message-ID: <hlg6h7$s6a$2@ger.gmane.org>

Philip Semanchuk wrote:
> 
> On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:41 PM, rodmc wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
>> have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
>> point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
>> 100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
>> it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
>> for people to hack into the code. Also where software requires some
>> security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this
>> correct?
> 
> 
> Hi Rod,
> The user's ability to hack into the code is usually considered one of
> the strengths of Python & open source software in general. Since most
> Python software that's distributed  is open source, you're doing
> something different than most. It'd help if you explain how you want
> your software to differ from a typical open source distribution. Do you
> not want people to change the code? Are you worried about your code &
> ideas being stolen?
> 
Do remember, though, that the Python license absolutely allows you to
create both open source and proprietary products as you choose.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 17 03:02:13 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:02:13 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
f2ab2154c0a1 at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

> Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...

Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? For example, does Python distinguish 
between functions and procedures?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 17 03:02:56 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:02:56 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message 
<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0 at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, 
Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
> nice feature for Python.
> 
> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)

Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?

What more do you need?


From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 03:44:03 2010
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:44:03 +0200
Subject: GIL state during import
In-Reply-To: <hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <2a8674c61002170044n66ad77bfk3c85744eddf79337@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 2/16/2010 4:37 PM, Doron Tal wrote:
>
>> Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
>> file?
>> If not, is it a bug?
>> If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think
>> it should be mentioned in the documentation.
>>
>
> The CPython GIL is a CPython implementation artifact and should not be
> mentioned in the language docs (and is not, as far as I know). Were you
> thinking of something else? And why this specific feature of its behavior,
> whatever it is.
>
> tjr
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

I'm sorry, I should have explained my case better.
Quoting the documentation (
http://docs.python.org/c-api/init.html#thread-state-and-the-global-interpreter-lock
):

 "The lock is also released and reacquired around potentially blocking I/O
operations like reading or writing a file, so that other threads can run
while the thread that requests the I/O is waiting for the I/O operation to
complete."


Since on some cases the IO may be _very_ slow, any IO command which does not
release the GIL can potentially stall the process. There are two problems
(or more...), the first, it may stall the process for unacceptable duration.
The second problem is that it is not an easy task to track down the root
cause of this stall.

In the specific case I'm dealing with, the problematic command is execfile
(at the time of my initial writing I did not know that).

--doron
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From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb 17 04:21:55 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:21:55 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <m2aav84ux6.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<m2aav84ux6.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <4b7bb533$0$23887$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi David,


Thanks a lot.

As I have pywin32 already installed this is probbaly the way to go.

Meanwhile I implemented already a small module, which is parsing
sc.exe's output, but probably 'll change it as my implementation is a
little clumsy.


bye


N

David Bolen wrote:
> alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>>
>>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>>
>>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>>> as well.
>> I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].
> 
> Another alternative is the win32service module from the pywin32
> package (which IMO you'll almost certainly want available when doing
> any significant Windows-specific operations) which wraps the native
> win32 libraries for enumerating, querying and controlling services.
> 
> A simple loop could use EnumServicesStatus to iterate through the
> services, OpenService with the SERVICE_QUERY_CONFIG flag to get a
> handle to each service, and then QueryServiceConfig to retrieve
> configuration information.
> 
> Since pywin32 is a relatively thin wrapper over the win32 libraries,
> pure MSDN documentation can be used for help with the calls, augmented
> by any Python-related information contained in the pywin32
> documentation.
> 
> -- David


From dino at phidev.org  Wed Feb 17 04:29:37 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:29:37 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <7u05ulFfmkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain> <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2597.1266271949.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7u05ulFfmkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1266398977.10498.423.camel@brain>

On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 19:20 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Am 15.02.10 23:12, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> > On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> >>> Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've
> >> seen)
> >>> approach:
> >>>
> >>> You need to define something like:
> >>> |
> >>> | class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
> >>> 
> >>> in your blog software.
> >>
> >> Why? Any reason you can't define it in a separate package the
> >> blog-software depends on, as well as your wiki?
> >
> > That's actually my point - most plugin systems I've seen, like the one
> > trac uses, are not encouraging you to do so. Having a module that just
> > defines an Interface is kind of weird - and in the real world no one is
> > doing it.
> 
> Just because nobody doesn't do it doesn't mean it's not desirable.

Good point.

> IMHO the ones using interfaces usually immediatly implement them for some 
> cases - so you actually get the interface for you authentication 
> framework, and also implement an OpenID plugin for it. And this forms 
> one package. Then you can add new packages that implement other things.

So if I want to implement another authentication mechanism but doesn't
use any of the auth-frameworks code you mentioned you still would depend
on it.

> repoze.who and what are examples for such design.

repoze.who is new for me, it might not actually solve my problem here
but it looks interesting for other tasks :) Thanks.


> >> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior
> >> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit
> >> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
> >> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.
> >
> > Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check if
> > your "implementation" comply with the "interface".
> 
> I didn't say nobody does it, I just said it isn't needed to get a 
> working plugin system. If you don't want to have a separate package 
> *and* don't want to pull in any unused code, this is pretty much your 
> only option.

Do you know somebody/some project/system/... who does it?

Pulling unused code I definitely want to avoid so I probably will stay
with this way.


> > [...]
> >
> > What do you think? Any obvious pitfalls (besides reinventing something)?
> 
> I don't know what pbus is supposed to do. Nor how it's laid out on a 
> python package level.

Its "the plugin system", connecting "service providers" (plugins) and
"service users". In my example the "users" also are providers at the
same time, the service "auth", provides the service "wiki".

Hope that clarifies my intentions a bit.

Thanks,
Florian


PS I removed you (diez) from the TO list as that bounced. Probably 
   related to the (not existing?) domain nospam.web.de


-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From navanitachora at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 04:58:43 2010
From: navanitachora at gmail.com (Nandakumar Chandrasekhar)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:58:43 +0800
Subject: Replacement for e.message() in python 2.6
Message-ID: <0PKdnTVryZFJIObWnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>

Dear Folks,

In previous versions of Python I used to use e.message() to print out 
the error message of an exception like so:

try:
	result = x / y
except ZeroDivisionError, e:
	print e.message()

Unfortunately in Python 2.6 the message method is deprecated.

Is there any replacement for the message method in Python 2.6 or is 
there any best practice that should be used in Python from now on?

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,
Nanda


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Feb 17 04:59:38 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:59:38 -0500
Subject: GIL state during import
In-Reply-To: <hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B7BBE0A.10509@ieee.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">On 
> 2/16/2010 4:37 PM, Doron Tal wrote:
>> Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
>> file?
>> If not, is it a bug?
>> If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think
>> it should be mentioned in the documentation.
>
> The CPython GIL is a CPython implementation artifact and should not be 
> mentioned in the language docs (and is not, as far as I know). Were 
> you thinking of something else? And why this specific feature of its 
> behavior, whatever it is.
>
> tjr
>
Threading vs. imports is mentioned at least once in the Python docs.  
See   http://docs.python.org/library/threading.html, section 17.2.9 (at 
least in version 2.6.4)

"""While the import machinery is thread safe, there are two key 
restrictions on threaded imports due to inherent limitations in the way 
that thread safety is provided:

    * Firstly, other than in the main module, an import should not have
      the side effect of spawning a new thread and then waiting for that
      thread in any way. Failing to abide by this restriction can lead
      to a deadlock if the spawned thread directly or indirectly
      attempts to import a module.
    * Secondly, all import attempts must be completed before the
      interpreter starts shutting itself down. This can be most easily
      achieved by only performing imports from non-daemon threads
      created through the threading module. Daemon threads and threads
      created directly with the thread module will require some other
      form of synchronization to ensure they do not attempt imports
      after system shutdown has commenced. Failure to abide by this
      restriction will lead to intermittent exceptions and crashes
      during interpreter shutdown (as the late imports attempt to access
      machinery which is no longer in a valid state).

"""

So it may or may not use the GIL, but there are thread restrictions 
during an import.  The rule I try to follow is not to do anything 
non-trivial during top-level code of a module, except inside the
  if __name__ == "__main__":

portion.  If we're inside that portion, we're not a module, we're a script.

Even better, import all your modules before starting any new threads.

DaveA




From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 05:18:52 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:18:52 +0000
Subject: Replacement for e.message() in python 2.6
References: <0PKdnTVryZFJIObWnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <m28wasi2r7.fsf@googlemail.com>

Nandakumar Chandrasekhar <navanitachora at gmail.com> writes:

> Dear Folks,
>
> In previous versions of Python I used to use e.message() to print out
> the error message of an exception like so:
>
> try:
> 	result = x / y
> except ZeroDivisionError, e:
> 	print e.message()
>
> Unfortunately in Python 2.6 the message method is deprecated.
>
> Is there any replacement for the message method in Python 2.6 or is
> there any best practice that should be used in Python from now on?

You can just use the __str__() method of the BaseException object for
this.  So instead of

    print e.message

You can write

    print str(e)

which in turn is equivalent to

    print e

For more details see PEP 352 (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0352/)

-- 
Arnaud


From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 05:31:45 2010
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:31:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection 
	between Python and Haskell?
References: <t3pln5dilpl922ffssjf5bh5dqrakccorp@4ax.com>
	<009d33cc-75da-4afe-9715-31e820ddc54e@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f932cb6a-d17f-4037-a85c-893319a85d55@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 2:04?am, Carl Banks <pavlovevide... at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection
> > between Python and Haskell?
>
> I would have expected Hubris to link Ada and Common Lisp together.
>
> Carl Banks

;-)

    J^n


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 17 05:46:02 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:46:02 +0100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlferb$ico$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlferb$ico$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b7bc8e4$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Aahz a ?crit :
> In article <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0 at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> Jonathan Gardner  <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
>> I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
>> nice feature for Python.
>>
>> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
>> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>>
>> I became enlightened.
> 
> +1 QOTW

++1 QOTW !-)

Had the same problem trying to debug some javascript...


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 17 05:48:54 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:48:54 +0100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro a ?crit :
> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
> f2ab2154c0a1 at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> 
>> Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
> 
> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? 

Python is (by design) a statement-based language, so yes, this 
distinction is pythonic !-)


From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 06:02:06 2010
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:02:06 +0200
Subject: GIL state during import
In-Reply-To: <4B7BBE0A.10509@ieee.org>
References: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org> <4B7BBE0A.10509@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <2a8674c61002170302t28ed24eei9d9960c966b78011@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Dave Angel <davea at ieee.org> wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>  <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">On 2/16/2010
>> 4:37 PM, Doron Tal wrote:
>>
>>> Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
>>> file?
>>> If not, is it a bug?
>>> If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think
>>> it should be mentioned in the documentation.
>>>
>>
>> The CPython GIL is a CPython implementation artifact and should not be
>> mentioned in the language docs (and is not, as far as I know). Were you
>> thinking of something else? And why this specific feature of its behavior,
>> whatever it is.
>>
>> tjr
>>
>>  Threading vs. imports is mentioned at least once in the Python docs.  See
>   http://docs.python.org/library/threading.html, section 17.2.9 (at least
> in version 2.6.4)
>
> """While the import machinery is thread safe, there are two key
> restrictions on threaded imports due to inherent limitations in the way that
> thread safety is provided:
>
>   * Firstly, other than in the main module, an import should not have
>     the side effect of spawning a new thread and then waiting for that
>     thread in any way. Failing to abide by this restriction can lead
>     to a deadlock if the spawned thread directly or indirectly
>     attempts to import a module.
>   * Secondly, all import attempts must be completed before the
>     interpreter starts shutting itself down. This can be most easily
>     achieved by only performing imports from non-daemon threads
>     created through the threading module. Daemon threads and threads
>     created directly with the thread module will require some other
>     form of synchronization to ensure they do not attempt imports
>     after system shutdown has commenced. Failure to abide by this
>     restriction will lead to intermittent exceptions and crashes
>     during interpreter shutdown (as the late imports attempt to access
>     machinery which is no longer in a valid state).
>
> """
>
> So it may or may not use the GIL, but there are thread restrictions during
> an import.  The rule I try to follow is not to do anything non-trivial
> during top-level code of a module, except inside the
>  if __name__ == "__main__":
>
> portion.  If we're inside that portion, we're not a module, we're a script.
>
> Even better, import all your modules before starting any new threads.
>
> DaveA
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

No argue here.
The specific problem, as I wrote in reply to Terry, is with the execfile
statement. It might be a part of some online plugin machinery. In such case
the nature of the cause does not allow to execute it upfront.
I think that the problem can be circumvented by first reading the file
followed by compile and eval, as being done in Python3 (no execfile there).

--doron
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 06:43:23 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:43:23 +0100
Subject: Wrestling with the Py2exe Install, Win7, Py2.5
In-Reply-To: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlgkmr$9k9$1@ger.gmane.org>

W. eWatson wrote:
> I've finally decided to see if I could make an executable out of a py 
> file. Win7. Py2.5. I brought down the install file and proceeded with 
> the install. I got two warning messages. Forgot the first. The second 
> said,"Could not set the key value." I again used OK. I think that was 
> the only choice. It then issued a message in a larger dialog. It was 
> about setting a key, and pointed me to a log. It mentions a Removepy2exe -u
> 
> Although it finished, I have no idea where the program is. It does not 
> show up on the Start menu All Programs List nore my desktop. What's up?
> 
> I've had these messages (key) occur on other Python installs as I 
> transition to Win7. So far no problem.
> 

You may want to consider dumping the thing and going for PyInstaller, 
which in my experience is better and has friendly developer community 
behind it.

Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 06:44:16 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:44:16 +0100
Subject: Wrestling with the Py2exe Install, Win7, Py2.5
In-Reply-To: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlgkog$9k9$2@ger.gmane.org>

W. eWatson wrote:


P.S. I didn't really use PyInstaller on Windows, though -- just on 
Linux, where it works beautifully.

Regards,
mk



From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Wed Feb 17 06:44:49 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:44:49 -0500
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <eae285401002170344q724eecf9kaca550a089a91339@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 3:15 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:

> One possible implementation would be
> to have unfrozen objects managed by reference counting and locking as
> in CPython.  Frozen objects would live in a different memory space and be
> garbage collected by a concurrent garbage collector.
>

A concurrent garbage collector for frozen object would still need to walk
unfrozen objects, to find references to frozen objects.


--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com>
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From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 08:25:03 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:25:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<07d50b9f-c4bb-4d49-82d0-bd6d1c2e42be@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0beb548b-2aa9-4708-86ee-c89dec988502@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This paper _almost_ gets the idea:http://www.netobjectives.com/download/Code%20Qualities%20and%20Practi...
>
>
> Do you run your tests after the fewest possible edits? Such as 1-3
> lines of code?
>

Hi!
I run my tests all the time (they almost replaced debugger in my IDE).
But there are times, when I can't just run tests after 1-3 lines of
code.
For example, I am developing an application that talks to some web
service. One of methods of a class, which implements API for a given
web service, should parse xml response from web service. At first, I
hardcoded returned values, so that they looked like already parsed.
But further, additional tests forced me to actually operate with
sample xml data instead of hardcoded values. So I created sample xml
file that resembled response from server. And after that I can't just
write 1-3 lines between each test. Because I need to read() the file
and sort it out in a loop (at least 6-9 lines of code for small xml
file). And only after this procedure I run my tests with the hope that
they all pass.
Maybe it's not proper TDD, but I can't figure out how to reduce period
between running tests in a case above.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 08:53:38 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:53:38 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
Message-ID: <hlgsb2$2ta$1@ger.gmane.org>

Found in Dive into Python:

"""Guido, the original author of Python, explains method overriding this 
way: "Derived classes may override methods of their base classes. 
Because methods have no special privileges when calling other methods of 
the same object, a method of a base class that calls another method 
defined in the same base class, may in fact end up calling a method of a 
derived class that overrides it. (For C++ programmers: all methods in 
Python are effectively virtual.)" """

So, I set out to create such case:

class A(object):
     def __init__(self):
         print "A"

     def met(self):
         print "I'm A's method"

     def overriden(self):
         print "I'm A's method to be overriden"

     def calling_overriden(self):
         self.overriden()

class B(object):
     def __init__(self):
         print "B"

     def met(self):
         print "I'm B's method"


class C(A):
     def __init__(self, arg):
         print "C","arg=",arg
         A.__init__(self)

     def met(self):
         print "I'm C's method"


class D(B):
     def __init__(self, arg):
         print "D", "arg=",arg
         B.__init__(self)

     def met(self):
         print "I'm D's method"


class E(C,D):
     def __init__(self, arg):
         print "E", "arg=",arg
         C.__init__(self, arg)
         D.__init__(self, arg)

     def some(self):
         self.met()

     def overriden(self):
         print "I'm really E's method"

e = E(10)
print 'MRO:', ' '.join([c.__name__ for c in E.__mro__])
e.some()
e.calling_overriden()


Result:
...
MRO: E C A D B object
I'm C's method
I'm really E's method


Is what I concocted in e.calling_overriden() == what Guido said on base 
class sometimes calling overriden method instead of its own original method?

Regards,
mk



From userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 08:53:50 2010
From: userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk (rodmc)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:53:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shipping Executables
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8DFBF31D-98D4-425B-A7D1-CC83E60AB02B@semanchuk.com>
	<mailman.2643.1266392709.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <216c9f16-e952-410b-b0e2-d72b999d557f@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>


> > Hi Rod,
> > The user's ability to hack into the code is usually considered one of
> > the strengths of Python & open source software in general. Since most
> > Python software that's distributed ?is open source, you're doing
> > something different than most. It'd help if you explain how you want
> > your software to differ from a typical open source distribution. Do you
> > not want people to change the code? Are you worried about your code &
> > ideas being stolen?

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

Normally I have no problem with adopting an open source model, indeed
I usually encourage it. However the main problem was related to end-
user licencing e.g. via some form of registration key. The other
problem was related to end-user private data and sending this via a
secure Internet connection. While I am ok with secure Internet
connection side of it I was concerned that with the source code being
available to others the security may in some way be reduced- however I
note one reply which says this is not the case.


Kind regards,

rod



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:25:06 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:25:06 +0000
Subject: Over(joy)riding
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:

> Found in Dive into Python:
>
> """Guido, the original author of Python, explains method overriding
> this way: "Derived classes may override methods of their base
> classes. Because methods have no special privileges when calling other
> methods of the same object, a method of a base class that calls
> another method defined in the same base class, may in fact end up
> calling a method of a derived class that overrides it. (For C++
> programmers: all methods in Python are effectively virtual.)" """
>
> So, I set out to create such case:
>
> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         print "A"
>
>     def met(self):
>         print "I'm A's method"
>
>     def overriden(self):
>         print "I'm A's method to be overriden"
>
>     def calling_overriden(self):
>         self.overriden()
[...]
> class E(C,D):
>     def __init__(self, arg):
>         print "E", "arg=",arg
>         C.__init__(self, arg)
>         D.__init__(self, arg)
>
>     def some(self):
>         self.met()
>
>     def overriden(self):
>         print "I'm really E's method"
>
> e = E(10)
> print 'MRO:', ' '.join([c.__name__ for c in E.__mro__])
> e.some()
> e.calling_overriden()
>
>
> Result:
> ...
> MRO: E C A D B object
> I'm C's method
> I'm really E's method
>
>
> Is what I concocted in e.calling_overriden() == what Guido said on
> base class sometimes calling overriden method instead of its own
> original method?

Yes!

-- 
Arnaud


From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:26:33 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:26:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 10:30?pm, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> writes:
> > And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
> > looks like a great waste of time.
>
> It only looks like that until you chase your tail in a long, fruitless
> debugging session because (you later realise) the behaviour of one test
> is being affected by another. Test isolation is essential to ensure that
> your tests are doing what you think they're doing.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ? ?A ?No? uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater |
> ? `\ ? ? ? than a ?Yes? merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?avoid trouble.? ?Mohandas K. Gandhi |
> Ben Finney

Hi!

Right, isolation is essential. But I can't decide to which extent I
should propagate isolation.
For example, in "Python Testing: Beginner's Guide" by Daniel Arbuckle,
author suggests that if you do unittesting you should isolate the
smallest units of code from each other. For example, if you have a
class:
Class SomeClass(object):
    def method1(self):
        return 5
    def method2(self):
        return self.method1 + 10

According to the book, if you want to test method2, you should isolate
it from method1 and class instance('self').
Other books are not so strict...

And what should I follow as newbie?

Currently, I don't create mocks of units if they are within the same
class with the unit under test. If that is not right approach, please,
explain what are best practices... I am just learning TDD..

with regards,
Maxim


From chyavana at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:27:35 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:27:35 +0800
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
Message-ID: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>

Dear Folks,

I am currently developing a python program, let us call it "generic.py", 
and I am testing out the functions therein by testing them out 
interactively in the python interpreter by invoking python and doing

import generic

Once I hit an error, I need to revise my file and reload the module using

reload(generic)

The difference in syntax between invoking import and reload is really 
costing me time and patience.

Therefore, I would like to ask:

1. Is there a method of auto-reloading a module while developing it and 
testing it with the interactive python interpreter?

2. Is there a better way of developing a program?

Thank you.

Chandra


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Feb 17 09:29:05 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:29:05 +0000
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B7BFD31.4010609@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/02/2010 13:51, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> It doesn't seem to provide ordinary Windows "service"s, but it's a bit unclear
> since e.g. the URL above says

[... snip ...]

Well the useful info in there appears to come from:

   http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa392783%28VS.85%29.aspx

Looking around the matter, I think I'm taking the view that this
is an implementation detail of WMI.

However you use it, WMI is a layer on a layer on layer
(especially if you're using it in Python with my module!)
and it's never going to be the fastest thing going. One
contributory factor will be this particular model of
process-within-process. But I don't feel that it would
help anybody if I were to mention it on my webpages as
there's nothing the casual user can do about it.

In general I tend to unrecommend WMI for something small
in an app which doesn't otherwise use it, unless the
convenience (and it *is* very convenient sometimes)
outweighs the slight performance issue.

Thanks for the heads-up anyway, Alf. I need to get up
to speed with the Vista & W7 issues referred to on
that page as well.

TJG


From xiajunyi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:35:57 2010
From: xiajunyi at gmail.com (Imaginationworks)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2635.1266369292.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e73d50df-80b5-4847-9060-46e35d0c4a6e@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 7:14?pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
> Imaginationworks wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> > 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> > line in the text file. ?Currently, the whole file was read into a
> > string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> > and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
> > questions are
>
> > 1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
> > list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'
>
> Yes. ? Read the *whole* file into a single string using file.read()
> method, and then search through the string using string methods (for
> simple things) or use re, the regular expression module, (for more
> complex searches). ? ?
>
> Note: ?There is a point where a file becomes large enough that reading
> the whole file into memory at once (either as a single string or as a
> list of strings) is foolish. ? ?However, 30,000 lines doesn't push that
> boundary.
>
> > 2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
> > may suggest?
>
> Again, the re module has nice ways to find a pattern, and return parse
> out pieces of it. ? Building a good regular expression takes time,
> experience, and a bit of black magic... ? ?To do so for this case, we
> might need more knowledge of your format. ?Also regular expressions have
> their limits. ?For instance, if the sub objects can nest to any level,
> then in fact, regular expressions alone can't solve the whole problem,
> and you'll need a more robust parser.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > - Jeremy
>
> > ===== Structured text file =================
> > Object1 = {
>
> > ...
>
> > SubObject1 = {
> > ....
>
> > SubSubObject1 = {
> > ...
> > };
> > };
>
> > SubObject2 = {
> > ....
>
> > SubSubObject21 = {
> > ...
> > };
> > };
>
> > SubObjectN = {
> > ....
>
> > SubSubObjectN = {
> > ...
> > };
> > };
> > };
>
>

Gary and Rhodri, Thank you for the suggestions.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:40:35 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:40:35 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hlgv32$bo7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>> Is what I concocted in e.calling_overriden() == what Guido said on
>> base class sometimes calling overriden method instead of its own
>> original method?
> 
> Yes!

For a change I achieved resounding success with Python. :-)

P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small kittens.

Regards,
mk



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:52:32 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:52:32 +0000
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>

"R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar" <chyavana at gmail.com> writes:

> Dear Folks,
>
> I am currently developing a python program, let us call it
> "generic.py", and I am testing out the functions therein by testing
> them out interactively in the python interpreter by invoking python
> and doing
>
> import generic
>
> Once I hit an error, I need to revise my file and reload the module using
>
> reload(generic)
>
> The difference in syntax between invoking import and reload is really
> costing me time and patience.
>
> Therefore, I would like to ask:
>
> 1. Is there a method of auto-reloading a module while developing it
> and testing it with the interactive python interpreter?
>
> 2. Is there a better way of developing a program?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Chandra

Here is a very simple way to improve what you do, which won't require
you to change the way you work or to learn a new paradigm:

Instead of testing your functions interactively, put your testing code
in a file, e.g. 'program_tests.py'.  Your can then type

    python program_tests.py

at the shell interactive prompt.  To perform the tests again, just
re-execute that file.  If your tests are divided into
different units, you can put these in functions:

    def test_frobz():
        #testing code for frobzation of klops

    def test_frizz():
        #testing code for frizzment of frobzied klops

    # etc..

So if you want to keep doing interactive tests, you can import
program_tests and call whichever testing functions you want.  You may
even have arguments to those functions to test them with different
parameters.

I know some people will point at more 'pro' ways of testing but this has
the merit of being very straightforward.  Then when you move on to more
sophisticated techniques, I think you will understand better the
motivations behind them.

-- 
Arnaud


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 17 09:52:35 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:52:35 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small kittens.

mro is only a "problem" when using MI.


From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 17 09:57:27 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:57:27 -0500
Subject: How to build a list of all modules in standard library?
Message-ID: <1266418647.16023.1360448951@webmail.messagingengine.com>

We're building a py2exe executable that may need to do some
dynamic module imports.

I'm looking for suggestions on how we can mechanically generate a
list of standard library modules/packages to make sure our build
has the full set of Python 2.6.4 libraries.

We're planning on creating a module called stdlib.py that
explictly imports all modules within an "if False:" block of code
per example below and then importing this script (stdlib.py) in
our main script.

# stdlib.py - insure that py2exe imports all modules in its build

if False:
     # list of all standard modules
     import <module -1>
     ...
     import <module-N>

     # list of 3rd party modules
     import win32api
     import wmi
     ...

Any suggestions or feedback appreciated.

Thanks,
Malcolm
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 10:08:28 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:08:28 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hlh0nc$ijb$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> mk a ?crit :
>> P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small 
>> kittens.
> 
> mro is only a "problem" when using MI.

Oh sure! And I have the impression that multiple inheritance is not used 
all that often. What (some) Python code I've read in open source 
projects typically uses single inheritance.

Nevertheless MI is there in Python, might be useful in some cases and 
Guido put it there for some reason, so Citizens Aspiring To Become 
Pythonistas like me work to learn it.

Regards,
mk



From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 17 10:10:03 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:10:03 -0500
Subject: Recommendations for cloud based file storage service with Python API?
Message-ID: <1266419403.17892.1360456229@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I'm looking for recommendations on a cloud based file storage
service with a Python API.

Would appreciate hearing feedback from anyone using Python to
interface to Amazon S3, RackSpace Cloud Files, Microsoft Azure,
Rsync.net, or other hosted file storage service. What services do
you recommend or suggest we avoid? Are there Python specific
issues (such as lagging library updates when an API gets updated)
I should be concerned about?

Our use case is mananging thousands of 100K-500K data files owned
by hundreds of users.

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 17 10:14:19 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:14:19 +0100
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
In-Reply-To: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B7C07CB.3000702@sequans.com>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> I am currently developing a python program, let us call it 
> "generic.py", and I am testing out the functions therein by testing 
> them out interactively in the python interpreter by invoking python 
> and doing
>
> import generic
>
> Once I hit an error, I need to revise my file and reload the module using
>
> reload(generic)
>
> The difference in syntax between invoking import and reload is really 
> costing me time and patience.
>
> Therefore, I would like to ask:
>
> 1. Is there a method of auto-reloading a module while developing it 
> and testing it with the interactive python interpreter?
>
> 2. Is there a better way of developing a program?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Chandra
You will always find people explaining to you how it can be possible if 
you really know precisely how python object model works. If you actually 
do, you can possibly read their technics.
But my short answer would be "No, there is no reliable way to reload a 
module".

Still there is 'reload' builting function you can call on any module, by 
you must understand that it won't affect any other object that the 
module itself. New objects created from that module will take effects, 
but all objects created before won't.

JM


From kwmsmith at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:00:23 2010
From: kwmsmith at gmail.com (Kurt Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:00:23 -0600
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <hlh0nc$ijb$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <hlh0nc$ijb$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c266a7931002170800t5613afcp3120588bfca4c265@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 9:08 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>
>> mk a ?crit :
>>>
>>> P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small
>>> kittens.
>>
>> mro is only a "problem" when using MI.
>
> Oh sure! And I have the impression that multiple inheritance is not used all
> that often. What (some) Python code I've read in open source projects
> typically uses single inheritance.
>
> Nevertheless MI is there in Python, might be useful in some cases and Guido
> put it there for some reason, so Citizens Aspiring To Become Pythonistas
> like me work to learn it.

In case you're not familiar with it, MI allows you to have mixins &
traits.  They work very well if the mixin superclasses don't have any
clashes with the other superclasses, so each mixin adds its own unique
set of methods to the derived class.  Then you don't have to worry
about mro and all that (at least as much).

Here's an article on it, with examples:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/4540/print

Michele Simionato has some criticism of MI pitfalls and has come up
with the straits module to remedy it -- you might be interested.  He
goes into detail here:

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=246488

Kurt


From dyamins at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:04:24 2010
From: dyamins at gmail.com (Dan Yamins)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:04:24 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
In-Reply-To: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>

Really, nobody has any idea about this?   (Sorry to repost.)

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Dan Yamins <dyamins at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi:
>
> I'm wondering what the best way to wrap and modify function calls is.
> Essentially what I want to achieve is to have a function like this:
>
> def Wrap(frame,event,arg):
>      if event == 'call':
>         result = PerformCheck(GetArgumentsFromFrame(frame))
>         if Condition(result):
>             return result
>         else:
>             return [normal function call]
>
> called whenever a "call" event is about to occur.
>
> When I say "return result" I mean:  return that data object instead of what
> the function would have returned, and prevent execution of the function.
>
>
> Is there any way to do this using sys.settrace?  Or perhaps something from
> the bdb or pbd module?
>
>
In other words, what I'm looking for is a way to intercept all function
calls with a "wrapper" --  like one can do using settrace and other
debugging methods -- but, unlike the debugging methods, have the "wrapping"
function actually be able to intervene in the stack and, for instance,
conditionally replace the function call's return with something determined
in the wrapping function and prevent the function call's execution.   I want
to be able to do this by setting a single system-wide (or at any rate,
thread-wide) value, like with settrace, and not have to modify individual
functions one by one.

Could I, for example, set a settrace function that somehow modifies the
stack?  Or is there some much better way to do this?  Or, if someone can
tell me that this can't be done without having to roll my own implementation
of the Python interpreter, that would be great to know too.

Thanks again,
Dan
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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:17:00 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:17:00 -0600
Subject: Recommendations for cloud based file storage service with Python
	API?
In-Reply-To: <1266419403.17892.1360456229@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266419403.17892.1360456229@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <hlh4pr$2lm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-17 09:10 AM, python at bdurham.com wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations on a cloud based file storage service
> with a Python API.
> Would appreciate hearing feedback from anyone using Python to interface
> to Amazon S3, RackSpace Cloud Files, Microsoft Azure, Rsync.net, or
> other hosted file storage service. What services do you recommend or
> suggest we avoid? Are there Python specific issues (such as lagging
> library updates when an API gets updated) I should be concerned about?

I don't have any deep experience with using any of them, it is worth noting that 
the Python interface to the RackSpace Cloud Files API is implemented by 
RackSpace itself and is the premier interface to their API. It won't lag behind 
the API.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:30:24 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:30:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e3803d14-d688-4827-a2dc-eb87004234e2@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 6:26?am, Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:

> Right, isolation is essential.

Please read my reply: Ben is well intentioned but completely wrong
here.

Mock abuse will not cure the runtime isolation problem.



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:32:00 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<07d50b9f-c4bb-4d49-82d0-bd6d1c2e42be@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0beb548b-2aa9-4708-86ee-c89dec988502@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2dd65d33-5f55-4124-b748-44f7b46320c7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Lacrima wrote:

> I run my tests all the time (they almost replaced debugger in my IDE).
> But there are times, when I can't just run tests after 1-3 lines of
> code.
...
> Maybe it's not proper TDD

You are still being too literal. The "1-3 lines of code" guideline is
a guideline, not a rule. It means 1 small edit is best, 2 edits are
mostly harmless, 3 is okay, 4 is acceptable, and so on. It's the peak
of the Zipf's Law curve:

http://www.rimmkaufman.com/content/mobydick.png

You "mocked the wire" with that hardcoded XML so that your subsequent
edits can be very short and reliable. Props!


From nagle at animats.com  Wed Feb 17 12:26:46 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <eae285401002170344q724eecf9kaca550a089a91339@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<eae285401002170344q724eecf9kaca550a089a91339@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b7c22c8$0$1651$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Daniel Stutzbach wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 3:15 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
> 
>> One possible implementation would be
>> to have unfrozen objects managed by reference counting and locking as
>> in CPython.  Frozen objects would live in a different memory space and be
>> garbage collected by a concurrent garbage collector.
>>
> 
> A concurrent garbage collector for frozen object would still need to walk
> unfrozen objects, to find references to frozen objects.

    Right.  But the reverse is not the case.  Reference count updating
wouldn't need to look at frozen object space.

    One way to implement locking is something like this:

    Mutable objects have a reference count field, a lock field,
and an "owner" field.  Initially, the owner of an object is its thread.
If an object's only reference is a field of a synchronized object, the
owner is the synchronized object.  Mutable objects with an owner can
be manipulated by that owner without locking.

    When an object reference is passed to another thread or
another synchronized object, the object becomes multi-owner and
the "owner" field is set to null.  Thereafter, the object must
be locked during updates.

    The headache with this is that when an object becomes multi-owner,
so does everything it points to.  So there's a transient as the
system runs down the references, locking objects momentarily and
clearing owner fields.

					John Nagle


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 12:29:36 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:29:36 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <c266a7931002170800t5613afcp3120588bfca4c265@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlh0nc$ijb$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<c266a7931002170800t5613afcp3120588bfca4c265@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlh900$i41$1@ger.gmane.org>

Kurt Smith wrote:

> In case you're not familiar with it, MI allows you to have mixins &
> traits.  They work very well if the mixin superclasses don't have any
> clashes with the other superclasses, so each mixin adds its own unique
> set of methods to the derived class.  Then you don't have to worry
> about mro and all that (at least as much).
> 
> Here's an article on it, with examples:
> 
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/4540/print
> 
> Michele Simionato has some criticism of MI pitfalls and has come up
> with the straits module to remedy it -- you might be interested.  He
> goes into detail here:
> 
> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=246488

Thanks Kurt, I will certainly look into that!

Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 12:38:14 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:38:14 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
Message-ID: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

OK so I have this:

def print_internal_date(filename):
     f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
     data = f.read(8)
     mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
     return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
     'python file properties'

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
             }

     def __init__(self, fname=None):
         FileInfo.__init__(self,fname)

     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
         FileInfo.__setitem__(self, key, value)
         if key == 'name' and value:
             print value
             self.__get_props(value)

     def __get_props(self, value):
         py_compile.compile(value)
         for tag, fun in PYFileInfo.tagdata.items():
             self[tag] = fun(value)
...


It works. But if I'd like to def print_internal_date in PYFileInfo body 
like so:

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
     'python file properties'

     def print_internal_date(self, filename):
         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
         data = f.read(8)
         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': PYFileInfo.print_internal_date
             }

I get:

c:/Python26/pythonw.exe -u  "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py"
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 53, in <module>
     class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 64, in PYFileInfo
     'internal_date': PYFileInfo.print_internal_date
NameError: name 'PYFileInfo' is not defined


Hmm do I get that class data attributes are defined before class is 
defined?!

Why I would like to do it this way:

1. keeping all the stuff specific to PYFileInfo where it belongs, in a 
class: the print_internal_method does nothing but read timestamp from a 
.pyc file, so it's not a generic function.

2. I guess I could define tagdata in __init__ and be done with it: 
however, it's an instance attribute then and not class attribute: a few 
bytes are wasted. Seriously, however, suppose tagdata or smth like this 
is really large? It would make sense to make it class attribute and not 
instance attribute. So I'm trying to work out if there's a way to do it.


Regards,
mk



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 12:59:11 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:59:11 -0800
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 9:38 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> It works. But if I'd like to def print_internal_date in PYFileInfo body
> like so:
>
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>    'python file properties'
>
>    def print_internal_date(self, filename):
>        f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
>        data = f.read(8)
>        mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
>        return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))
>
>    tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                'size': os.path.getsize,
>                'internal_date': PYFileInfo.print_internal_date
>            }
>

You don't have to (and can't) refer to the class within the body. Class
statements are sort of... odd. They are code which is directly executed, and
the results are then passed into a metaclass/type/whatever and a class
object is created. While within the class body, the class doesn't exist yet.

But you don't need it to.

Just do:

   'internal_date': print_internal_date

The 'def' is in the same local scope as 'tagdata' is.

--S
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:00:45 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:00:45 +0100
Subject: mixins and new style classes
Message-ID: <hlhaqd$oig$1@ger.gmane.org>

 >>> class Person(object):
...     pass
...
 >>> class Friendly(object):
...     def hello(self):
...             print 'hello'
...
 >>>
 >>> Person.__bases__ += (Friendly,)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: Cannot create a consistent method resolution
order (MRO) for bases object, Friendly




But it works for old-style classes:


 >>> class Person:
...     pass
...
 >>> class Friendly:
...     def hello(self):
...             print 'hello'
...
 >>>
 >>> p = Person()
 >>>
 >>> Person.__bases__ += (Friendly,)
 >>>
 >>> p.hello()
hello


Python is 2.6.1.



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:10:37 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:10:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
Message-ID: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
anyway, I have the following:

_num_frames = 32
_frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
I'm just pseudocoding here.
_values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]

I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.

I would want something similar to the following to be called:

_frames[0].func(_values[0])
_frames[1].func(_values[0])
_frames[2].func(_values[0])
_frames[3].func(_values[0])
_frames[4].func(_values[1])
_frames[5].func(_values[1])
_frames[6].func(_values[1])
_frames[7].func(_values[1])
_frames[8].func(_values[2])
...etc...

Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.

I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:

num_frames = 32
values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
    for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
        offset = index / offset_step
        if offset > offset_values[-1]:
            offset = offset_values[-1]
        frames[index].func(values[offset])

There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
Cheers!


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:14:58 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:14:58 -0400
Subject: Timer
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
I have the following css:

<style type='text/css'>
.splash { position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; z-index:2 }
.page { position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; z-index:1 }
.text {  font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;
text-decoration: none; text-align: justify}
</style>

and the following python:

  if new is not None:
    print '<div class="splash">'
    print '<OBJECT classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
codebase="
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"
WIDTH="%s" HEIGHT="%s" id="myMovieName">' % (str(wn*1008), str(wn*200))
    print '''
<PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="GlobalSolutions.swf">
<PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high>
<PARAM NAME=bgcolor VALUE=#FFFFFF>'''
    print '<EMBED href="/support/flash/ts/documents/myFlashMovie.swf"
quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH="%s" HEIGHT="%s" NAME="myMovieName"
ALIGN="" TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="
http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></EMBED>' % (str(wn*1008),
str(wn*200))
    print '</OBJECT>'
    print '</div>'
    Timer(5, removeCSS, ()).start()

Obviously, the removeCSS isn't going to work in that last line. What can I
put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
TIA,
beno

-- 
The Logos has come to bear
http://logos.13gems.com/
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From gabriel at opensuse.org  Wed Feb 17 13:30:51 2010
From: gabriel at opensuse.org (Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:30:51 -0300
Subject: Timer
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1adde6891002171030m2d83a0a3v93017aa7a1cee55c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi;
> I have the following css:
> <style type='text/css'>
> .splash { position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; z-index:2 }
> .page { position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; z-index:1 }
> .text { ?font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;
> text-decoration: none; text-align: justify}
> </style>
> and the following python:
> ??if new is not None:
> ?? ?print '<div class="splash">'
> ?? ?print '<OBJECT classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
> codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"
> WIDTH="%s" HEIGHT="%s" id="myMovieName">' % (str(wn*1008), str(wn*200))
> ?? ?print '''
> <PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="GlobalSolutions.swf">
> <PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high>
> <PARAM NAME=bgcolor VALUE=#FFFFFF>'''
> ?? ?print '<EMBED href="/support/flash/ts/documents/myFlashMovie.swf"
> quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH="%s" HEIGHT="%s" NAME="myMovieName"
> ALIGN="" TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash"
> PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></EMBED>' %
> (str(wn*1008), str(wn*200))
> ?? ?print '</OBJECT>'
> ?? ?print '</div>'
> ?? ?Timer(5, removeCSS, ()).start()
> Obviously, the removeCSS isn't going to work in that last line. What can I
> put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
> TIA,
> beno


I don't think this has anything to do with python.

-- 
Kind Regards


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:36:45 2010
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:36:45 +0200
Subject: Timer
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880dece01002171036t7e198649jd94d2bd789eadf9f@mail.gmail.com>

> What can I
> put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
>

Javascript.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:37:56 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:37:56 -0800
Subject: Timer
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002171037s49568919te9840a9dabd37f29@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com>wrote:

> Obviously, the removeCSS isn't going to work in that last line. What can I
> put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
>

Even though you're generating this with python, it doesn't have anything to
do with Python. You'll have to use javascript and DHTML and enable/disable
classes. How to do that is beyond the scope of this group, and might depend
on the browser. I'd go look into jQuery or some such which will encapsulate
such dynamic things better.

--S
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:38:10 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:38:10 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:

> You don't have to (and can't) refer to the class within the body. Class 
> statements are sort of... odd. They are code which is directly executed, 
> and the results are then passed into a metaclass/type/whatever and a 
> class object is created. While within the class body, the class doesn't 
> exist yet.
> 
> But you don't need it to.
> 
> Just do:
> 
>    'internal_date': print_internal_date
> 
> The 'def' is in the same local scope as 'tagdata' is.

Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of 
'self' in print_internal_date signature, bc all other functions in 
tagdata have only a single argument:

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
     'python file properties'

     def print_internal_date(filename):
...

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
             }

That looks weird: a method with no 'self'. Hmm that is probably 
seriously wrong.

This obviously means no other method can call it like 
self.print_internal_date(), because self would get passed as first 
argument, yes?

I checked that print_internal_date can be called on an instance, so the 
same method can be seen as:

- class method -- when used in local scope definition like tagdata, or
- instance method -- when called from an instance or from self?

It should be called ______print_internal_date really. ;-)

I wonder if I'm not trying to make Python things it shouldn't be doing, 
but it's the problem at hand that is leading me into this conundrum: all 
other functions for tagdata use single arguments. I should probably code 
around that anyway..

Regards,
mk





From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb 17 13:39:30 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:30 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> I became enlightened.

If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and
if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
nick name using

local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';

Finding an issue, and not looking for a solution is not called becoming
enlightened ;-)


~$ perl -e '
use Carp;

my $anon = sub { local *__ANON__ = "hello, world"; croak "oops"; };
$anon->();
'

oops at -e line 4
	main::hello, world() called at -e line 5

As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
shown.

If you generate anonymouse functions on the fly based on parameters, you
can encode this into the nice name, of course.

Sadly, often bold statements about a language are made in ignorance.


[1] perl is the program that executes Perl programs ;-).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:51:11 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:51:11 -0800
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002171051o4bc48483qbb82cc65668434f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:38 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
> 'self' in print_internal_date signature, bc all other functions in tagdata
> have only a single argument:
>

Right, I should have caught that.

You can make print_internal_date a @staticmethod.

Or just leave it as a top level function where it was perfectly happy to
live :)


> That looks weird: a method with no 'self'. Hmm that is probably seriously
> wrong.
>

> This obviously means no other method can call it like
> self.print_internal_date(), because self would get passed as first argument,
> yes?
>

It doesn't have to be. It could be a class method-- @classmethod does that,
makes it receive 'cls' the actual class as the first argument. Or a
@staticmethod, in which case it has no first-argument at all.


--S
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From cjw at ncf.ca  Wed Feb 17 13:51:50 2010
From: cjw at ncf.ca (cjw)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:51:50 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>

On 17-Feb-10 05:48 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro a ?crit :
>> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
>> f2ab2154c0a1 at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>
>>> Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
>>
>> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not?
>
> Python is (by design) a statement-based language, so yes, this
> distinction is pythonic !-)
Aren't lambda forms better described as function?

Colin W.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 17 13:53:59 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:53:59 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B7C3B47.5040906@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
>> You don't have to (and can't) refer to the class within the body. 
>> Class statements are sort of... odd. They are code which is directly 
>> executed, and the results are then passed into a 
>> metaclass/type/whatever and a class object is created. While within 
>> the class body, the class doesn't exist yet.
>>
>> But you don't need it to.
>>
>> Just do:
>>
>>    'internal_date': print_internal_date
>>
>> The 'def' is in the same local scope as 'tagdata' is.
>
> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of 
> 'self' in print_internal_date signature, bc all other functions in 
> tagdata have only a single argument:
>
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>     'python file properties'
>
>     def print_internal_date(filename):
> ...
>
>     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                 'size': os.path.getsize,
>                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
>             }
>
> That looks weird: a method with no 'self'. Hmm that is probably 
> seriously wrong.
> [snip]


Absolutely not. It's called a static method, you have to decorate it 
with @staticmethod though.

class A:
    @staticmethod
    def getInstance():
       return A()

a = A.getInstance()

you have also the class method version:

class B:
    @classmethod:
    def getInstance(cls): # class methods take a class as first parameter
       return cls()


JM


From mccredie at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:55:32 2010
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matt McCredie)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:55:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20100217T193110-606@post.gmane.org>

> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check: 
>
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
>     for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
>         offset = index / offset_step
>         if offset > offset_values[-1]:
>             offset = offset_values[-1]
>         frames[index].func(values[offset])
> 
> There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> Cheers!
> 

This is how I would do it, assuming you just want to call the remaining frames 
with the last value.

from itertools import izip

def stretch(seq, n):
    for val in seq:
        for i in xrange(n):
            yield val
    while True:
        yield val

frames_per_value = num_frames // len(values)
for frame, value in izip(frames, stretch(values, frames_per_value)):
    frame.func(value)


Matt





From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Wed Feb 17 14:15:05 2010
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 19:15:05 GMT
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7u2thpFhfbU1@mid.individual.net>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:10:37 -0800 (PST), Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
[snip]
> _num_frames = 32
> _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> I'm just pseudocoding here.
> _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
>
> I would want something similar to the following to be called:
>
> _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> ...etc...
>
> Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
>
> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
>
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
>     for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
>         offset = index / offset_step
>         if offset > offset_values[-1]:
>             offset = offset_values[-1]
>         frames[index].func(values[offset])

Here's my suggestion:

Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 22 2009, 15:35:03) 
>>> import math
>>> import itertools
>>> values = [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>>> f = list( lambda x=i : x for i in range( 10 ) )
>>> n = int( math.ceil( len(f)/float( len(values) ) ) )
>>> for ff, dd in zip( f, itertools.chain(*zip( *n*[values] )) ):
...   print "Function %d applied to data %d." % ( ff(dd), dd )
... 
Function 1 applied to data 1.
Function 1 applied to data 1.
Function 1 applied to data 1.
Function 1 applied to data 1.
Function 2 applied to data 2.
Function 2 applied to data 2.
Function 2 applied to data 2.
Function 2 applied to data 2.
Function 3 applied to data 3.
Function 3 applied to data 3.
>>> 

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 14:15:59 2010
From: wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com (Wolfram Hinderer)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <950cfd62-ee52-4dbc-803b-38b040b52f32@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 17 Feb., 19:10, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
> anyway, I have the following:
>
> _num_frames = 32
> _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> I'm just pseudocoding here.
> _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
>
> I would want something similar to the following to be called:
>
> _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> ...etc...
>
> Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
>
> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
>
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
> ? ? for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
> ? ? ? ? offset = index / offset_step
> ? ? ? ? if offset > offset_values[-1]:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? offset = offset_values[-1]
> ? ? ? ? frames[index].func(values[offset])
>
> There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> Cheers!

Python 3.1:
>>> def apply_spreaded(funcs, values):
...     num_funcs = len(funcs)
...     num_values = len(values)
...     for i, func in enumerate(funcs):
...         func(values[(i * num_values) // num_funcs])

>>> apply_spreaded([print] * 8, range(5))
0
0
1
1
2
3
3
4



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 17 14:18:39 2010
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:18:39 +0100
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2446.1265985927.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877hqbu0vk.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:

>     if portion is None:
>       content = iter(f)

iter(f) will iterate over lines in the file, which doesn't fit with the
rest of the algorithm.  Creating an iterator that iterates over
fixed-size file chunks (in this case of length 1) is where the
two-argument form of iter comes in handy:

    content = iter(lambda: f.read(1), '')


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 17 14:24:52 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:24:52 -0500
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
In-Reply-To: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C4284.8070709@optimum.net>

On 2/17/2010 1:10 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
> anyway, I have the following:
>
> _num_frames = 32
> _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> I'm just pseudocoding here.
> _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
>
> I would want something similar to the following to be called:
>
> _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> ...etc...

The lines above show that you are using two different series of index 
values. Each function call (more properly, "method call") has the form:

   frames[INDEX_FROM_FIRST_SERIES].func(INDEX_FROM_SECOND_SERIES)

(I've dropped the underscores in the names, for simplicity.) You're 
getting hung up trying to keep the two series of index values in sync. 
But you don't really need to. More below ...

>
> Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
>
> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
>
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
>      for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
>          offset = index / offset_step
>          if offset>  offset_values[-1]:
>              offset = offset_values[-1]
>          frames[index].func(values[offset])
>
> There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> Cheers!

As you've shown above, a "for" loop takes care of the first series of 
index values:

   for index in xrange(num_frames):       # "0" arg unnecessary
       frames[index].func(INDEX_FROM_SECOND_SERIES)

The second series of index values needs to look like this:

   0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 ...

The trick is not to worry about matching the second series to the first 
series. Instead, create an "infinite" second series using a Python 
generator, and use as many of its values as you need. Don't worry about 
the unused values, because the series isn't *really* infinite. :-)

Here's an easy way to create the generator

   import itertools
   second_series_gen = (i/4 for i in itertools.count())

Now, every time you need another number from this series, use its next() 
method. So the above code becomes:

   for index in xrange(num_frames):
       frames[index].func(second_series_gen.next())

-John


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 17 14:27:41 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:27:41 +0100
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlhfv7$8jv$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
> anyway, I have the following:
> 
> _num_frames = 32
> _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> I'm just pseudocoding here.
> _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> 
> I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
> 
> I would want something similar to the following to be called:
> 
> _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> ...etc...
> 
> Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
> 
> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
> 
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
>     for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
>         offset = index / offset_step
>         if offset > offset_values[-1]:
>             offset = offset_values[-1]
>         frames[index].func(values[offset])
> 
> There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> Cheers!

I tried to apply

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bresenham's_line_algorithm

on the problem:

def bresenham(xitems, yitems):
    x1 = len(xitems)
    y1 = len(yitems)

    assert y1 <= x1
    assert x1 > 0

    deltax = x1-1
    deltay = y1-1
    error = deltax // 2
    
    yitems = iter(yitems)
    y = next(yitems)

    for x in xitems:
        yield x, y
        error -= deltay
        if error < 0:
            y = next(yitems)
            error += deltax

if __name__ == "__main__":
    def make_f(i):
        def f(v):
            return "%d --> %s" % (i, v)
        return f
    functions = [make_f(i) for i in range(11)]
    values = ["b%s" % k for k in range(5)]
    for f, v in bresenham(functions, values):
        print f(v)

The implementation is derived from the code on the wikipedia page and 
untested.

Peter


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb 17 14:40:17 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:40:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41aac4b4-2d1c-422c-af6d-604296e95a1a@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 5:48?pm, Imaginationworks <xiaju... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> line in the text file. ?Currently, the whole file was read into a
> string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject.

If you open(filename).read() this file into a variable named data, the
following pyparsing parser will pick out your nested brace
expressions:

from pyparsing import *

EQ,LBRACE,RBRACE,SEMI = map(Suppress,"={};")
ident = Word(alphas, alphanums)
contents = Forward()
defn = Group(ident + EQ + Group(LBRACE + contents + RBRACE + SEMI))

contents << ZeroOrMore(defn | ~(LBRACE|RBRACE) + Word(printables))

results = defn.parseString(data)

print results

Prints:

[
 ['Object1',
   ['...',
    ['SubObject1',
      ['....',
        ['SubSubObject1',
          ['...']
        ]
      ]
    ],
    ['SubObject2',
      ['....',
       ['SubSubObject21',
         ['...']
       ]
      ]
    ],
    ['SubObjectN',
      ['....',
       ['SubSubObjectN',
         ['...']
       ]
      ]
    ]
   ]
 ]
]

-- Paul


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Feb 17 14:44:47 2010
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:44:47 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Stephen Hansen wrote:
> 
>> You don't have to (and can't) refer to the class within the body.
>> Class statements are sort of... odd. They are code which is directly
>> executed, and the results are then passed into a
>> metaclass/type/whatever and a class object is created. While within
>> the class body, the class doesn't exist yet.
>>
>> But you don't need it to.
>>
>> Just do:
>>
>>    'internal_date': print_internal_date
>>
>> The 'def' is in the same local scope as 'tagdata' is.
> 
> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
> 'self' in print_internal_date signature

Indeed. Using it that way, the print_internal_date will not be wrapped
in a method object.

> bc all other functions in
> tagdata have only a single argument:
> 
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>     'python file properties'
> 
>     def print_internal_date(filename):
> ...
> 
>     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                 'size': os.path.getsize,
>                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
>             }
> 
> That looks weird: a method with no 'self'.

It's not a method.

> Hmm that is probably
> seriously wrong.
> 
> This obviously means no other method can call it like
> self.print_internal_date(), because self would get passed as first
> argument, yes?

Unless you make it a staticmethod.

> I checked that print_internal_date can be called on an instance, so the
> same method

s/method/function/


> can be seen as:
> 
> - class method -- when used in local scope definition like tagdata, or
> - instance method -- when called from an instance or from self?

Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
when compared to most mainstream OO languages.

The first thing is that the def statement *always* yield a function
object. Always. If you don't believe it, try the following snippet:

class Foo(object):
    def bar(self):
        return "baaz"

print Foo.__dict__.keys()
print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])


So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ? The
answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.

To make a long story short, the descriptor protocol specify that, when,
during an attribute lookup, a name resolves to a class attribute AND
this attribute has a __get__ method, then this __get__ method is called
 (with either the instance or None and the class itself as arguments)
and whatever it returns becomes the result of the attribute lookup. This
mechanism is what provides support for computed attributes.

Now the trick is that the function type do implement the descriptor
protocol. So when a function is an attribute of a class object and you
try to access it as an attribute of either the class itself or an
instance of the class, it's __get__ method is called with the instance
(or None) and the class. Having access to itself (of course), the
instance (if there's one) and the class, it's easy for it to wrap all
this into a method object. Which is itself a callable object, that when
called mostly inject the instance as first object in the argument's list
and returns the result of calling the wrapped function object.

A (naive) implementation of the whole thing might look like this:

class method(object):
    def __init__(self, func, instance, cls):
        self.im_func = func
        self.im_self = instance
        self.im_class = cls

    def __call__(self, *args, **kw):
        # XXX : all sanity checks removed for readability
        if self.im_self:
            args = (self.im_func,) + args
        return self.im_func(*args, **kw)


class function(object):
   # ...
   def __get__(self, instance, cls):
       return method(self, instance, cls)


So, what makes a function a "method" is not being defined in a class
statement's body (well, not directly at least), it's that it is an
attribute of the class. FWIW, the following code is perfectly legal:

class Foo(object):
    pass

def func(obj):
   print "obj is %s " % obj

Foo.method = func

f = Foo()
f.method()
Foo.method(f)
func(f)

> I wonder if I'm not trying to make Python things it shouldn't be doing,
> but it's the problem at hand that is leading me into this conundrum: all
> other functions for tagdata use single arguments. I should probably code
> around that anyway..

Well, the simple solution is to just leave print_internal_date as a
plain function instead of insisting on making it a method. Python is
100% OO in that everything is an object, but it's not a "pure" OO
language, ie it doesn't require everything to happen in a method. So if
all you need is a function, by all mean just use a function !-)

Now if you really need print_internal_date to be exposed as a method of
PYFileInfo - like, you need polymorphic dispatch - then make it a
staticmethod.

My 2 cents...


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 17 14:46:00 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:46:00 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2645.1266398984.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
	<hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.2597.1266271949.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7u05ulFfmkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2645.1266398984.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7C4778.8090904@nospam.web.de>

>> IMHO the ones using interfaces usually immediatly implement them for some
>> cases - so you actually get the interface for you authentication
>> framework, and also implement an OpenID plugin for it. And this forms
>> one package. Then you can add new packages that implement other things.
>
> So if I want to implement another authentication mechanism but doesn't
> use any of the auth-frameworks code you mentioned you still would depend
> on it.

This depends on your definition of depending... (pun intended).

Sure, the code floats around. But it isn't *used* by your application. 
Why do you bother so much?

>> I didn't say nobody does it, I just said it isn't needed to get a
>> working plugin system. If you don't want to have a separate package
>> *and* don't want to pull in any unused code, this is pretty much your
>> only option.
>
> Do you know somebody/some project/system/... who does it?
>
> Pulling unused code I definitely want to avoid so I probably will stay
> with this way.

Well, it's simply duck-typing, so you find it all over the place. Out of 
my head I only know about e.g. TurboMail, that allows you to specify 
plugins via pkg_resources entry points & simply uses them.

> Its "the plugin system", connecting "service providers" (plugins) and
> "service users". In my example the "users" also are providers at the
> same time, the service "auth", provides the service "wiki".

So it's hypothetical?

To summarize my point again: if you want explicit type-checking or 
zope-style interface implementation, but don't want any code that 
implements this (at least not imported) - you need an explicit package. 
If you don't want this, use duck-typing.

>
> PS I removed you (diez) from the TO list as that bounced. Probably
>     related to the (not existing?) domain nospam.web.de

I post through NNTP, and the email is obfuscated for the obvious reasons.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 14:50:32 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:50:32 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>
Message-ID: <hlhha5$gdu$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 1:51 PM, cjw wrote:
> On 17-Feb-10 05:48 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro a ?crit :
>>> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
>>> f2ab2154c0a1 at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
>>>
>>> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not?
>>
>> Python is (by design) a statement-based language, so yes, this
>> distinction is pythonic !-)
> Aren't lambda forms better described as function?

They are expressions that evaluate to function objects nearly identical 
to that produced by the def statememt they abbreviate. The only 
difference is the .__name__ attribute.

Terry Jan Reedy






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 14:57:23 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:57:23 -0500
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <hlgsb2$2ta$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlgsb2$2ta$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hlhhn1$jjt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 8:53 AM, mk wrote:
> Found in Dive into Python:
>
> """Guido, the original author of Python, explains method overriding this
> way: "Derived classes may override methods of their base classes.
> Because methods have no special privileges when calling other methods of
> the same object, a method of a base class that calls another method
> defined in the same base class, may in fact end up calling a method of a
> derived class that overrides it. (For C++ programmers: all methods in
> Python are effectively virtual.)" """
>
> So, I set out to create such case:
>
> class A(object):
> def __init__(self):
> print "A"
>
> def met(self):
> print "I'm A's method"
>
> def overriden(self):
> print "I'm A's method to be overriden"
>
> def calling_overriden(self):
> self.overriden()
>
> class B(object):
> def __init__(self):
> print "B"
>
> def met(self):
> print "I'm B's method"
>
>
> class C(A):
> def __init__(self, arg):
> print "C","arg=",arg
> A.__init__(self)
>
> def met(self):
> print "I'm C's method"
>
>
> class D(B):
> def __init__(self, arg):
> print "D", "arg=",arg
> B.__init__(self)
>
> def met(self):
> print "I'm D's method"
>
>
> class E(C,D):
> def __init__(self, arg):
> print "E", "arg=",arg
> C.__init__(self, arg)
> D.__init__(self, arg)
>
> def some(self):
> self.met()
>
> def overriden(self):
> print "I'm really E's method"
>
> e = E(10)
> print 'MRO:', ' '.join([c.__name__ for c in E.__mro__])
> e.some()
> e.calling_overriden()
>
>
> Result:
> ...
> MRO: E C A D B object
> I'm C's method
> I'm really E's method
>
>
> Is what I concocted in e.calling_overriden() == what Guido said on base
> class sometimes calling overriden method instead of its own original
> method?

Much more complicated than needed for this point, but I believe yes.




From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Feb 17 15:00:42 2010
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:00:42 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2655.1266419271.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2655.1266419271.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7c5863$0$24394$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> mk a ?crit :
>>> P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small
>>> kittens.
>>
>> mro is only a "problem" when using MI.
> 
> Oh sure! And I have the impression that multiple inheritance is not used
> all that often. What (some) Python code I've read in open source
> projects typically uses single inheritance.

Single inheritance does indeed cover most of the needs - and FWIW, even
single inheritance is not used as much in Python as in some other more
mainstream OOPLs. This comes partly from duck typing - inheritance is
only used for implementation inheritance, not for type-based polymorphic
dispatch -, and partly from Python's support for composition/delegation
(thru __getattr__). Also - as you noticed - single inheritance is easier
to grasp, and Python's philosophy really values simplicity, readability,
maintainability, and coder's mental health !-)

> Nevertheless MI is there in Python, might be useful in some cases and
> Guido put it there for some reason,

Indeed. As with most Python's "advanced" features, it's there so you can
use it when appropriate.

> so Citizens Aspiring To Become
> Pythonistas like me work to learn it.

FWIW, I very rarely had to use it myself in almost 10 years of Python
programming - main exceptions being Zope2 stuff (which is IMHO highly
unpythonic) and a couple mixin classes here and there.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 15:21:51 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:21:51 -0500
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
In-Reply-To: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlhj4u$oi9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 9:27 AM, R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> I am currently developing a python program, let us call it "generic.py",
> and I am testing out the functions therein by testing them out
> interactively in the python interpreter by invoking python and doing
>
> import generic
>
> Once I hit an error, I need to revise my file and reload the module using
>
> reload(generic)

Reload is sufficiently flakey that it has been removed in 3.x. The 
problem is that it genearally only *partially* replaces the module, so 
that some code uses the old version and some the new. Guido tried to 
rewrite it but gave up and removed it. The most sensible way to 
completely remove a module is to shutdown and restart the interpreter.

> The difference in syntax between invoking import and reload is really
> costing me time and patience.
>
> Therefore, I would like to ask:
>
> 1. Is there a method of auto-reloading a module while developing it and
> testing it with the interactive python interpreter?
>
> 2. Is there a better way of developing a program?

This is what I now do.
Edit
# xxx/module.py

<incrementally written module code>

def _test():
   <incrementally added tests>

if __name__ == '__main__': _test()

with IDLE and hit F5 to run and test. IDLE runs the file in a *fresh* 
subinterpreter as the main module and then, whether or not an exception 
is raised, switches to interactive mode, so one can interactively test 
any objects created (before any exception). The switch to interactive 
mode after running a file can also be done with a command line switch 
when using CPython directly.

Terry Jan Reedy




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 15:28:03 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:28:03 -0500
Subject: How to build a list of all modules in standard library?
In-Reply-To: <1266418647.16023.1360448951@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266418647.16023.1360448951@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <hlhjgm$ppm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 9:57 AM, python at bdurham.com wrote:
> We're building a py2exe executable that may need to do some dynamic
> module imports.
> I'm looking for suggestions on how we can mechanically generate a list
> of standard library modules/packages to make sure our build has the full
> set of Python 2.6.4 libraries.

Find the source file for the global module index that comes with the doc 
set.

Terry Jan Reedy



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Feb 17 15:31:48 2010
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:31:48 +0100
Subject: mixins and new style classes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2664.1266429605.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2664.1266429605.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7c5fad$0$20740$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
>>>> class Person(object):
> ...     pass
> ...
>>>> class Friendly(object):
> ...     def hello(self):
> ...             print 'hello'
> ...
>>>>
>>>> Person.__bases__ += (Friendly,)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: Cannot create a consistent method resolution
> order (MRO) for bases object, Friendly

Indeed. After the addition of Friendly to Person.__bases__, the mro for
Person would be (Person, object, Friendly). But the mro for Friendly is
(Friendly, object). This is not consistent. The right solution would be
to inject Friendly before object, ie:

Person.__bases__ = (Mixin, object)

Now the bad news is that this fails too:

TypeError: __bases__ assignment: 'Mixin' deallocator differs from 'object'

The above problem is not new, and had been discussed here:

http://bugs.python.org/issue672115

...and it's still unresolved AFAICT :-/

OTHO, the concrete use case for such a feature seem to be rather uncommon.

> 
> 
> But it works for old-style classes:

Old-style classes are a very different beast.



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Feb 17 15:34:51 2010
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:34:51 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <4B7C57C7.2000701@optimum.net>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4B7C57C7.2000701@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4b7c6064$0$20740$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

John Posner a ?crit :
> On 2/17/2010 2:44 PM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> 
> Very nice writeup, Bruno -- thanks!

<blush />

> <snip>
> 
>>
>>
>>      def __call__(self, *args, **kw):
>>          # XXX : all sanity checks removed for readability
>>          if self.im_self:
>>              args = (self.im_func,) + args
> 
> In the line above, I think you meant:
> 
>                args = (self.im_self,) + args

oops :?

Yes, indeed. Thanks for the correction.


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 15:54:42 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:54:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4B7C4284.8070709@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <9049f975-cd60-4591-a73b-1142a0728ee7@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 8:24?pm, John Posner <jjpos... at optimum.net> wrote:
> On 2/17/2010 1:10 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
> > anyway, I have the following:
>
> > _num_frames = 32
> > _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> > I'm just pseudocoding here.
> > _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> > I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> > argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
>
> > I would want something similar to the following to be called:
>
> > _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> > _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> > _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> > _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> > _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> > _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> > _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> > _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> > _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> > ...etc...
>
> The lines above show that you are using two different series of index
> values. Each function call (more properly, "method call") has the form:
>
> ? ?frames[INDEX_FROM_FIRST_SERIES].func(INDEX_FROM_SECOND_SERIES)
>
> (I've dropped the underscores in the names, for simplicity.) You're
> getting hung up trying to keep the two series of index values in sync.
> But you don't really need to. More below ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> > size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
>
> > I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> > results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
>
> > num_frames = 32
> > values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> > offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
> > ? ? ?for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
> > ? ? ? ? ?offset = index / offset_step
> > ? ? ? ? ?if offset> ?offset_values[-1]:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?offset = offset_values[-1]
> > ? ? ? ? ?frames[index].func(values[offset])
>
> > There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> > Cheers!
>
> As you've shown above, a "for" loop takes care of the first series of
> index values:
>
> ? ?for index in xrange(num_frames): ? ? ? # "0" arg unnecessary
> ? ? ? ?frames[index].func(INDEX_FROM_SECOND_SERIES)
>
> The second series of index values needs to look like this:
>
> ? ?0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 ...
>
> The trick is not to worry about matching the second series to the first
> series. Instead, create an "infinite" second series using a Python
> generator, and use as many of its values as you need. Don't worry about
> the unused values, because the series isn't *really* infinite. :-)
>
> Here's an easy way to create the generator
>
> ? ?import itertools
> ? ?second_series_gen = (i/4 for i in itertools.count())
>
> Now, every time you need another number from this series, use its next()
> method. So the above code becomes:
>
> ? ?for index in xrange(num_frames):
> ? ? ? ?frames[index].func(second_series_gen.next())
>
> -John

That's a cool trick, but maybe I wasn't specific enough. The values
series are the range of values that the frames.func() function should
use, it should not overflow, and I would want the function to use as
evenly distributed number of values as possible from the first series.
The "0000,1111" was just an example. Let me see if I can be more
specific:

values = [2, 3, 4]
frames = [obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4, obj5, obj6]

And the calls:

frames[0].func(values[0])  # func.(values[2])
frames[1].func(values[0])  # func.(values[2])
frames[2].func(values[1])  # func.(values[3])
frames[3].func(values[1])  # func.(values[3])
frames[4].func(values[2])  # func.(values[4])
frames[5].func(values[2])  # func.(values[4])


However the values list might have an uneven number of items. I would
like to make it as evenly distributed as possible, e.g.:

values = [-2, -1, 0]
frames = [obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4, obj5, obj6, obj7, obj8]

frames[0].func(values[0])  # func.(values[-2])
frames[1].func(values[0])  # func.(values[-2])
frames[2].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-2])
frames[3].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-1])
frames[4].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-1])
frames[5].func(values[2])  # func.(values[-1])
frames[6].func(values[2])  # func.(values[0])
frames[7].func(values[2])  # func.(values[0])


I'll be even more specific. I have a Minimum and Maximum value that
the user enters. The frame.func() function is a "translate" function,
it basically moves a frame in the application in one direction or
another depending on the argument value. So frame[0].func(2) would
move the frame[0] 2 pixels to the right. So what I want is the
function to create a smooth transition of all the frames from the
Minimum to the Maximum value. If minimum was 0, and maximum was 10,
I'd want the first frame moved 0 pixels (it stays in place), the last
frame to move 10 pixels, and the frames between are gradually moved
from 1 pixels to 9 pixels relative from their positions.

Perhaps I'm just overcomplicating. I'll have a look at some drawing
apps and see how they've implemented drawing straight lines under an
angle, I guess that could be called a gradual change of values.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I'll have a look at the rest
shortly.


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 17 15:55:35 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:55:35 -0500
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B7C57C7.2000701@optimum.net>

On 2/17/2010 2:44 PM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>
> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
> beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
> when compared to most mainstream OO languages.

Very nice writeup, Bruno -- thanks!

<snip>

>
> class method(object):
>      def __init__(self, func, instance, cls):
>          self.im_func = func
>          self.im_self = instance
>          self.im_class = cls
>
>      def __call__(self, *args, **kw):
>          # XXX : all sanity checks removed for readability
>          if self.im_self:
>              args = (self.im_func,) + args

In the line above, I think you meant:

                args = (self.im_self,) + args

-John


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 15:57:57 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:57:57 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
In-Reply-To: <15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
	<15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlhl8j$eg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 11:04 AM, Dan Yamins wrote:
> Really, nobody has any idea about this?   (Sorry to repost.)

> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Dan Yamins <dyamins at gmail.com
> <mailto:dyamins at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi:
>
>     I'm wondering what the best way to wrap and modify function calls
>     is.    Essentially what I want to achieve is to have a function like
>     this:
>
>     def Wrap(frame,event,arg):
>           if event == 'call':
>              result = PerformCheck(GetArgumentsFromFrame(frame))
>              if Condition(result):
>                  return result
>              else:
>                  return [normal function call]
>
>     called whenever a "call" event is about to occur.

For yourself as interpreter, execute the above for every call.

For CPython, alternative 1 is to create a custom interpreter to change 
(wrap) the interpretation of the call-function bytecode in the ceval 
loop. That is its 'call event', and I believe this would catch every 
explicit f(args) call and only such calls.

Python has no general metasyntax for changing the semantics of its 
syntax. The __xx__ methods are special cases for the corresponding 
operators *and* the corresponding user-defined class. The '__call__' 
method of a class applies to instances of that class. Alternative 2:

class func_wrap:
   def __init__(self, func):
     self._func = func
   def __call__(self, args, kwds):
     result = PerformCheck(args, kwds)
     if Condition(result):
       return result
     else:
       return self._func(*args,**kwds)

Now wrap *every* function you are interested in. Builtin functions are 
no problem; methods of builtin classes cannont be wrapped without 
subclassing.

Terry Jan Reedy

>     When I say "return result" I mean:  return that data object instead
>     of what the function would have returned, and prevent execution of
>     the function.
>
>     Is there any way to do this using sys.settrace?  Or perhaps
>     something from the bdb or pbd module?
>
>
> In other words, what I'm looking for is a way to intercept all function
> calls with a "wrapper" --  like one can do using settrace and other
> debugging methods -- but, unlike the debugging methods, have the
> "wrapping" function actually be able to intervene in the stack and, for
> instance, conditionally replace the function call's return with
> something determined in the wrapping function and prevent the function
> call's execution.   I want to be able to do this by setting a single
> system-wide (or at any rate, thread-wide) value, like with settrace, and
> not have to modify individual functions one by one.
>
> Could I, for example, set a settrace function that somehow modifies the
> stack?  Or is there some much better way to do this?  Or, if someone can
> tell me that this can't be done without having to roll my own
> implementation of the Python interpreter, that would be great to know too.
>
> Thanks again,
> Dan
>




From joshua.r.english at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 16:00:04 2010
From: joshua.r.english at gmail.com (Josh English)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:00:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
Message-ID: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

I have several pages exported from a private MediaWiki that I need to
convert to a PDF document, or an RTF document, or even a Word
document.

So far, the only Python module I have found that parses MediaWiki
files is mwlib, which only runs on Unix, as far as I can tell. I'm
working on Windows here.

Has anyone heard of a module that parses wiki markup and transforms
it? Or am I looking at XSLT?

Josh


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 16:20:17 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:50:17 +0530
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
In-Reply-To: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002171320v1d11a036h14046f8875084e2c@mail.gmail.com>

why not try installing cygwin. I am just guessing though but I had heard it
emulates *nix decently on windows. Or a better idea is to shift to *nix ;)

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:30 AM, Josh English <joshua.r.english at gmail.com>wrote:

> I have several pages exported from a private MediaWiki that I need to
> convert to a PDF document, or an RTF document, or even a Word
> document.
>
> So far, the only Python module I have found that parses MediaWiki
> files is mwlib, which only runs on Unix, as far as I can tell. I'm
> working on Windows here.
>
> Has anyone heard of a module that parses wiki markup and transforms
> it? Or am I looking at XSLT?
>
> Josh
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 16:24:36 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:24:36 +0000
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <m2635v1ror.fsf@googlemail.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:

[...]
> class Foo(object):
>     def bar(self):
>         return "baaz"
>
> print Foo.__dict__.keys()
> print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
>
>
> So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ? The
> answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.

It's true of Python 2.X.  In Python 3 there are no more unbound method:

Python 3.2a0 (py3k:75274, Oct  7 2009, 20:25:52) 
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class A:
...    def f(self): pass
... 
>>> A.f
<function f at 0x445b28>
>>> A.f is A.__dict__['f']
True

-- 
Arnaud


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 17 17:04:47 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:04:47 +1100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:

> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and
> IMHO beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit
> peculiar when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
[?]

Bruno, that's the first time I've understood the descriptor protocol, or
even understood *why* the descriptor protocol is important.

Could you please post (a version of) this as a separate article
somewhere? A weblog post, or a new thread in this forum, or in the
documentation? Somewhere that web searches will find it prominently when
searching for the Python descriptor protocol.

Thank you.

-- 
 \      ?I don't want to live peacefully with difficult realities, and |
  `\     I see no virtue in savoring excuses for avoiding a search for |
_o__)                        real answers.? ?Paul Z. Myers, 2009-09-12 |
Ben Finney


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb 17 17:09:42 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:09:42 -0600
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
References: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87pr43ecpl.fsf@castleamber.com>

Josh English <joshua.r.english at gmail.com> writes:

> I have several pages exported from a private MediaWiki that I need to
> convert to a PDF document, or an RTF document, or even a Word
> document.
>
> So far, the only Python module I have found that parses MediaWiki
> files is mwlib, which only runs on Unix, as far as I can tell. I'm
> working on Windows here.
>
> Has anyone heard of a module that parses wiki markup and transforms
> it? Or am I looking at XSLT?

One option might be to install a printer driver that prints to PDF and
just print the web pages.

Using Saxon or AltovaXML and a suitable stylesheet might give you the
nicest looking result though (but quite some work).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 17:14:07 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:14:07 +0000
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlhpn0$evt$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:
> 
>> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and
>> IMHO beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit
>> peculiar when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
> [?]
> 
> Bruno, that's the first time I've understood the descriptor protocol, or
> even understood *why* the descriptor protocol is important.
> 
> Could you please post (a version of) this as a separate article
> somewhere? A weblog post, or a new thread in this forum, or in the
> documentation? Somewhere that web searches will find it prominently when
> searching for the Python descriptor protocol.
> 
> Thank you.
> 

I'll second, third and fourth this request.  More please Bruno, or from 
anybody similarly qualified.

Thanks very much.

Mark Lawrence.



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 17:17:47 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:17:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<pan.2010.02.17.07.35.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <2954a28f-e810-47bc-83d6-b9afb910d9af@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 2:35?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:09:27 -0800, John Nagle wrote:
> > ? ? Yes, we're now at the point where all the built-in mutable types
> > have "frozen" versions. ?But we don't have that for objects. ?It's
> > generally considered a good thing in language design to offer, for user
> > defined types, most of the functionality of built-in ones.
>
> It's not hard to build immutable user-defined types. Whether they're
> immutable enough is another story :)
>
> >>> class FrozenMeta(type):
>
> ... ? ? def __new__(meta, classname, bases, classDict):
> ... ? ? ? ? def __setattr__(*args):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? raise TypeError("can't change immutable class")
> ... ? ? ? ? classDict['__setattr__'] = __setattr__
> ... ? ? ? ? classDict['__delattr__'] = __setattr__
> ... ? ? ? ? return type.__new__(meta, classname, bases, classDict)
> ...
>
> >>> class Thingy(object):
>
> ... ? ? __metaclass__ = FrozenMeta
> ... ? ? def __init__(self, x):
> ... ? ? ? ? self.__dict__['x'] = x
> ...
>
> >>> t = Thingy(45)
> >>> t.x
> 45
> >>> t.x = 42
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? File "<stdin>", line 4, in __setattr__
> TypeError: can't change immutable class
>
> It's a bit ad hoc, but it seems to work for me. Unfortunately there's no
> way to change __dict__ to a "write once, read many" dict.

Which makes it not really immutable, as does the relative ease of
using a normal setattr:

... t.__dict__['x'] = "foo"
... print t.x
foo
... object.__setattr__(t, "x", 42)
... print t.x
42


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 17 17:46:52 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:46:52 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>
Message-ID: <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:

> Aren't lambda forms better described as function?

Is this a function?

    lambda : None

What about this?

    lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")



From davea at ieee.org  Wed Feb 17 17:56:14 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:56:14 -0500
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
In-Reply-To: <9049f975-cd60-4591-a73b-1142a0728ee7@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<4B7C4284.8070709@optimum.net>
	<9049f975-cd60-4591-a73b-1142a0728ee7@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C740E.3040200@ieee.org>



Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> On Feb 17, 8:24 pm, John Posner <jjpos... at optimum.net> wrote:
>   
>> On 2/17/2010 1:10 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>
> However the values list might have an uneven number of items. I would
> like to make it as evenly distributed as possible, e.g.:
>
> values =-2, -1, 0]
> frames =obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4, obj5, obj6, obj7, obj8]
>
> frames[0].func(values[0])  # func.(values[-2])
> frames[1].func(values[0])  # func.(values[-2])
> frames[2].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-2])
> frames[3].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-1])
> frames[4].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-1])
> frames[5].func(values[2])  # func.(values[-1])
> frames[6].func(values[2])  # func.(values[0])
> frames[7].func(values[2])  # func.(values[0])
>
>
> I'll be even more specific. I have a Minimum and Maximum value that
> the user enters. The frame.func() function is a "translate" function,
> it basically moves a frame in the application in one direction or
> another depending on the argument value. So frame[0].func(2) would
> move the frame[0] 2 pixels to the right. So what I want is the
> function to create a smooth transition of all the frames from the
> Minimum to the Maximum value. If minimum was 0, and maximum was 10,
> I'd want the first frame moved 0 pixels (it stays in place), the last
> frame to move 10 pixels, and the frames between are gradually moved
> from 1 pixels to 9 pixels relative from their positions.
>
> Perhaps I'm just overcomplicating. I'll have a look at some drawing
> apps and see how they've implemented drawing straight lines under an
> angle, I guess that could be called a gradual change of values.
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I'll have a look at the rest
> shortly.
>
>   
I think you're overcomplicating.  If you have 27 frames, and you want 
frame 0 to move 0 pixels, and frame 27 to move 10 pixels, then you want 
to move frame[i] by i*10/27.  And since you do the multiply first, the 
fact that Python 2.x division gives you integers isn't a problem.

There are fancier methods for drawing lines (bresenham for example), but 
the main purpose of them is to to avoid multiply and divide, as well as 
floats.  But in Python, an integer multiply is just as fast as an add or 
subtract, so there's no point.

DaveA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 17:59:14 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:59:14 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>
	<hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <hlhsc1$nrn$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message<hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
>
>> Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
>
> Is this a function?
>
>      lambda : None
>
> What about this?
>
>      lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")

To repeat: Python lambda expressions evaluate to function objects 
identical, except for .__name__ attribute, to the equivalent def statememnt.

 >>> type(lambda:None)
<class 'function'>
 >>> import sys
 >>> type(lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n"))
<class 'function'>





From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 17 18:17:51 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:17:51 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87eikjcuzk.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> In message <hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
>
> > Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
>
> Is this a function?
>
>     lambda : None
>
> What about this?
>
>     lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")

They are both lambda forms in Python. As a Python expression, they
evaluate to (they ?return?) a function object.

-- 
 \       ?It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to find out |
  `\         how nature *is*. Physics concerns what we can *say* about |
_o__)                                             nature?? ?Niels Bohr |
Ben Finney


From xiajunyi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 18:37:02 2010
From: xiajunyi at gmail.com (Imaginationworks)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:37:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<41aac4b4-2d1c-422c-af6d-604296e95a1a@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e6bd4067-97ea-442f-baa6-edb0c83aaefb@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 1:40?pm, Paul McGuire <pt... at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 5:48?pm, Imaginationworks <xiaju... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> > 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> > line in the text file. ?Currently, the whole file was read into a
> > string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> > and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject.
>
> If you open(filename).read() this file into a variable named data, the
> following pyparsing parser will pick out your nested brace
> expressions:
>
> from pyparsing import *
>
> EQ,LBRACE,RBRACE,SEMI = map(Suppress,"={};")
> ident = Word(alphas, alphanums)
> contents = Forward()
> defn = Group(ident + EQ + Group(LBRACE + contents + RBRACE + SEMI))
>
> contents << ZeroOrMore(defn | ~(LBRACE|RBRACE) + Word(printables))
>
> results = defn.parseString(data)
>
> print results
>
> Prints:
>
> [
> ?['Object1',
> ? ?['...',
> ? ? ['SubObject1',
> ? ? ? ['....',
> ? ? ? ? ['SubSubObject1',
> ? ? ? ? ? ['...']
> ? ? ? ? ]
> ? ? ? ]
> ? ? ],
> ? ? ['SubObject2',
> ? ? ? ['....',
> ? ? ? ?['SubSubObject21',
> ? ? ? ? ?['...']
> ? ? ? ?]
> ? ? ? ]
> ? ? ],
> ? ? ['SubObjectN',
> ? ? ? ['....',
> ? ? ? ?['SubSubObjectN',
> ? ? ? ? ?['...']
> ? ? ? ?]
> ? ? ? ]
> ? ? ]
> ? ?]
> ?]
> ]
>
> -- Paul

Wow, that is great! Thanks


From comptekki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 18:48:38 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:48:38 -0700
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>

I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
"['a','b']"

The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []

But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:

a="['a','b']"

b=a[1:-1].split(',')

returns

[ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]

when I want it to return ['a','b'].

How can I do this?

thx,

-wes


From comptekki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 18:53:56 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:53:56 -0700
Subject: error trying to join #python on irc.freenode.net
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002171553m4a0e5949wf8461473ea5d5c13@mail.gmail.com>

When I try to join #python on irc.freenode.net it keeps saying:

You need to identify with network services to join the room "#python"
on "irc.freenode.net".

Server Details:
Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services

What does this mean?

thx,

-wes


From comptekki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 18:56:06 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:56:06 -0700
Subject: error trying to join #python on irc.freenode.net
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002171553m4a0e5949wf8461473ea5d5c13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171553m4a0e5949wf8461473ea5d5c13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002171556t4ad514fgd1eddee0d948391c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I try to join #python on irc.freenode.net it keeps saying:
>
> You need to identify with network services to join the room "#python"
> on "irc.freenode.net".
>
> Server Details:
> Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
>
> What does this mean?


Nevermind, I think it means I need to register with the service and
supply real username/password.

-wes


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 19:08:32 2010
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:08:32 +0100
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a1002171608h6dd4f936he1417148426da574@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/18 Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com>:
> I have been trying to create a list form a string. ?The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list). ?i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"
>
> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []
>
> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
>
> a="['a','b']"
>
> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
>
> returns
>
> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
>
> when I want it to return ['a','b'].
>
> How can I do this?
>
> thx,
>
> -wes
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

The potentially problematic exec or eval options left aside,
if you really need to do this, you might consider pyparsing; check the example
http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/parsePythonValue.py

If you know, the input string will always have this exact format
(single quoted comma separated one-character strings between square
brackets), you might use regular expressions to some extent, e.g.

print re.findall(r"(?<=')\w(?=')", "['a','b','c','b','A']")
['a', 'b', 'c', 'b', 'A']

hth,
  vbr


From dyamins at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 19:09:06 2010
From: dyamins at gmail.com (Dan Yamins)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:09:06 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
In-Reply-To: <hlhl8j$eg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
	<15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlhl8j$eg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <15e4667e1002171609h5de4fd17y370ead62f7fee737@mail.gmail.com>

> For CPython, alternative 1 is to create a custom interpreter to change
> (wrap) the interpretation of the call-function bytecode in the ceval loop.
> That is its 'call event', and I believe this would catch every explicit
> f(args) call and only such calls.
>
>


> Python has no general metasyntax for changing the semantics of its syntax.
> The __xx__ methods are special cases for the corresponding operators *and*
> the corresponding user-defined class. The '__call__' method of a class
> applies to instances of that class. Alternative 2:
>
>
Terry thanks for your response.

My hoped-for spec explicitly prohibits wrapping required each (user-defined)
function to be wrapped individual, since I want to be able to have this
wrapping behavior apply to many functions created by many users on the fly,
and such users can't be asked to remember to wrap each function.  (At most,
they can be asked to set a single evironment variable or the like at the
beginning of modules or interpreter sessions that should the "turn on
wrapping" for all future function calls.)

So I suppose the situation is as I feared? That the only way to achieve my
goal without having to wrap every (user-defined) function call individually
is to modify the interpreter.   Is there no way to edit frame objects from
inside a function?  if I could do that in a settrace function, would it even
help?

Also: am I right in thinking that the "modified interpreter" approach would
mean that my resulting software couldn't be used as a 3-rd party module,
that could be easily integrated into existing python installations?  Or is
there some standard way of integrating dynamically loadable modifications to
the interpreter in python?  (e.g. so that users of my code wouldn't have to
re-install of their existing modules in a separate new python installation?)

Thanks!
Dan




>
>>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 19:13:05 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:13:05 -0000
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8aqv3fra8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:48:38 -0000, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"

If your string is trusted (i.e. goes nowhere near a user), just eval() it.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 19:37:15 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 00:37:15 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like
	Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.00.37.14@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:46:52 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> In message <hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
> 
>> Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
> 
> Is this a function?
> 
>     lambda : None
> 
> What about this?
> 
>     lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")

Of course they are; the first is a function that takes no arguments and 
returns None, and the second is a function that takes no arguments, 
returns None, and has a side-effect of writing "hi there\n" to stout. 

But I imagine you already know that, so I'm not really sure I understand 
the point of your (rhetorical?) question.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 19:47:20 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 00:47:20 GMT
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<op.u8aqv3fra8ncjz@gnudebst>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.00.47.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:13:05 +0000, Rhodri James wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:48:38 -0000, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
>> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
>> "['a','b']"
> 
> If your string is trusted (i.e. goes nowhere near a user), just eval()
> it.

Or use something like YAML or JSON to parse it.

Fredrik Lundh has a simple_eval function which should be safe to use:

http://effbot.org/zone/simple-iterator-parser.htm


But it's fairly simple to parse a simple list like this. Here's a quick 
and dirty version:


def string_to_list(s):
    s = s.strip()
    if not s.startswith('[') and s.endswith(']'):
        raise ValueError
    s = s[1:-1].strip()
    items = [item.strip() for item in s.split(',')]
    for i, item in enumerate(items):
        items[i] = dequote(item)
    return items


def dequote(s):
    for delimiter in ('"""', "'''", '"', "'"):
        if s.startswith(delimiter) and s.endswith(delimiter):
            n = len(delimiter)
            return s[n:-n]
    raise ValueError



>>> s = "['a','b']"
>>> print s
['a','b']
>>> string_to_list(s)
['a', 'b']
>>> x = string_to_list(s)
>>> type(x)
<type 'list'>
>>> x
['a', 'b']



-- 
Steven


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 19:49:45 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:49:45 +0000
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
In-Reply-To: <e3803d14-d688-4827-a2dc-eb87004234e2@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<e3803d14-d688-4827-a2dc-eb87004234e2@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hli2qn$8ni$1@ger.gmane.org>

Phlip wrote:
> On Feb 17, 6:26 am, Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right, isolation is essential.
> 
> Please read my reply: Ben is well intentioned but completely wrong
> here.
> 
> Mock abuse will not cure the runtime isolation problem.
> 

I believe that Ben is perfectly correct, and that you are talking at 
cross purposes because you've missed the significance of his
<quote>
(you later realise)
</quote>
within his post.
Runtime test isolation doesn't enter into from what I can see.
Can you please clarify the situation one way or the other.

TIA.

Mark Lawrence.



From mccredie at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 19:51:39 2010
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matt McCredie)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:51:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20100218T012556-699@post.gmane.org>

Wes James <comptekki <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"
> 
> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []
> 
> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
> 
> a="['a','b']"
> 
> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
> 
> returns
> 
> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
> 
> when I want it to return ['a','b'].
> 
> How can I do this?


eval will work, but has a safety issue. It also has the issue of evaluating any 
and everything that a user might pass in. 

If you are using python 2.6 check out ast.literal_eval. It uses python's built 
in ast parser to generate an AST and then traverses it to generate a python 
object. Unlike eval though, it will raise an exception if anything other than a 
literal is represented in the string. I have used the same function in python 
2.5 (copied from 2.6) and it works just fine.

Here is a version modified from the code in python 2.6 that should only parse 
lists of strings:

from _ast import List, Str, PyCF_ONLY_AST

def parse(expr, filename='<unknown>', mode='exec'):
    """
    Parse an expression into an AST node.
    Equivalent to compile(expr, filename, mode, PyCF_ONLY_AST).
    """
    return compile(expr, filename, mode, PyCF_ONLY_AST)


def list_eval(text):
    """
    Safely evaluate an expression node or a string containing a Python
    expression.  The string or node provided may only consist of the following
    Python literal structures: strings, numbers, tuples, lists, dicts, booleans,
    and None.
    """

    node = parse(text, mode='eval').body
    if not isinstance(node, List):
        raise ValueError('malformed string')
    def _convert(node):
        if isinstance(node, Str):
            return node.s
        raise ValueError('malformed string')

    return list(map(_convert, node.elts))




Matt McCredie



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 17 19:58:19 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:58:19 +1100
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y6irbbro.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> writes:

> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"

Pulling back to ask about the larger problem: Are you trying to create
Python data structures from a serialised representation?

There are several well-implemented solutions, including the standard
library modules ?pickle? and ?json?. Do you have control over the choice
of serialisation format?

-- 
 \        ?I went to court for a parking ticket; I pleaded insanity. I |
  `\   said ?Your Honour, who in their right mind parks in the passing |
_o__)                                           lane??? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 17 20:00:50 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:00:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <ba932f5c-bf3b-4b66-9185-cc8b2b81f049@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 10:39?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> > with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> > I became enlightened.
>
> If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and
> if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
> nick name using
>
> local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';
>
> Finding an issue, and not looking for a solution is not called becoming
> enlightened ;-)
>
> ~$ perl -e '
> use Carp;
>
> my $anon = sub { local *__ANON__ = "hello, world"; croak "oops"; };
> $anon->();
> '
>
> oops at -e line 4
> ? ? ? ? main::hello, world() called at -e line 5
>
> As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
> shown.
>
> If you generate anonymouse functions on the fly based on parameters, you
> can encode this into the nice name, of course.
>
> Sadly, often bold statements about a language are made in ignorance.
>

$ perl -e '$a = sub () {die "it may have been javascript, but"}; $b =
sub () {die "I am pretty sure it was perl"}; $b->()'


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 17 20:02:41 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:02:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message
> <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517... at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
> > nice feature for Python.
>
> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> > with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?
>
> What more do you need?

I don't know, but I tend to find the name of the function I called to
be useful. It's much more memorable than line numbers, particularly
when line numbers keep changing.

I doubt it's just me, though.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 17 20:04:00 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
>
> f2ab2154c... at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> > Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
>
> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? For example, does Python distinguish
> between functions and procedures?

Not to the programmer, no. Callables are callable, no matter what they
are, and they are all called the same way.

(What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a
subroutine, a method, or a block?)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 20:06:41 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 01:06:41 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like
	Python  to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.01.06.40@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:30 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> 
>> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
>> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>>
>> I became enlightened.
> 
> If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and
> if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
> nick name using
> 
> local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';
[...]
> As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
> shown.

Given that it has a nice name, what makes it an anonymous function?

It seems to me that Perl effectively has three ways of creating 
functions, one anonymous and two named (even if one syntax for creating a 
named function is almost identical to the syntax for creating an 
anonymous function). Once you annotate a function with a nickname, it's 
no different from giving it a name.

If this is the case, then your answer to "anonymous functions are a PITA" 
is "don't use anonymous functions", which exactly the same answer we'd 
give here in Python land. The only difference is that Perl provides two 
ways of making a named function, and Python only one[1].






[1] Technically, you can make named functions with the new module and a 
bit of work, so Python has two ways too.


-- 
Steven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 17 20:13:23 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:13:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0f783ced-0414-4b44-acf1-79f8d288f41c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 3:48?pm, Imaginationworks <xiaju... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> line in the text file. ?Currently, the whole file was read into a
> string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
> questions are
>
> 1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
> list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'
>
> 2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
> may suggest?

Parse it!

Go full-bore with a real parser. You may want to consider one of the
many fine Pythonic implementations of modern parsers, or break out
more traditional parsing tools.

This format is nested, meaning that you can't use regexes to parse
what you want out of it. You're going to need a real, full-bore, no-
holds-barred parser for this.

Don't worry, the road is not easy but the destination is absolutely
worth it.

Once you come to appreciate and understand parsing, you have earned
the right to call yourself a red-belt programmer. To get your black-
belt, you'll need to write your own compiler. Having mastered these
two tasks, there is no problem you cannot tackle.

And once you realize that every program is really a compiler, then you
have truly mastered the Zen of Programming in Any Programming Language
That Will Ever Exist.

With this understanding, you will judge programming language utility
based solely on how hard it is to write a compiler in it, and
complexity based on how hard it is to write a compiler for it. (Notice
there are not a few parsers written in Python, as well as Jython and
PyPy and others written for Python!)


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 20:20:42 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:20:42 -0000
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:04:00 -0000, Jonathan Gardner  
<jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
>>
>> f2ab2154c... at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>> > Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
>>
>> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? For example, does Python  
>> distinguish
>> between functions and procedures?
>
> Not to the programmer, no. Callables are callable, no matter what they
> are, and they are all called the same way.
>
> (What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a
> subroutine, a method, or a block?)

In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had  
no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no  
procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying  
an explicit return value it returns None.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 17 20:20:49 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:49 +1100
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87tytfbaq6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lacrima <lacrima.maxim at gmail.com> writes:

> Right, isolation [of test cases] is essential. But I can't decide to
> which extent I should propagate isolation.

You used ?propagate? in a sense I don't understand there.

> For example, in "Python Testing: Beginner's Guide" by Daniel Arbuckle,
> author suggests that if you do unittesting you should isolate the
> smallest units of code from each other.

I'm not sure what the author means, but I would say that as it stands
that advice is independent of what testing is being done. In all cases:

* Make your code units small, so each one is not doing much and is easy
  to understand.

* Make the interface of units at each level as narrow as feasible, so
  they're not brittle in the face of changes to the implementation.

> For example, if you have a
> class:
> Class SomeClass(object):
>     def method1(self):
>         return 5
>     def method2(self):
>         return self.method1 + 10
>
> According to the book, if you want to test method2, you should isolate
> it from method1 and class instance('self').

I don't really know what that means.

Remember that each test case should not be ?test method1?. That is far
too broad, and in some cases too narrow. There is no one-to-one mapping
between methods and unit test cases.

Instead, each test case should test one true-or-false assertion about
the behaviour of the code. ?When we start with this initial state (the
test fixture), and perform this operation, the resulting state is that?.

It makes a lot of sense to name the test case so the assertion being
made *is* its name: not ?test frobnicate? with dozens of assertions, but
one ?test_frobnicate_with_valid_spangulator_returns_true? which makes
that assertion, and extra ones for each distinct assertion.

The failure of a unit test case should indicate *exactly* what has gone
wrong. If you want to make multiple assertions about a code unit, write
multiple test cases for that unit and name the tests accordingly.

This incidentally requires that you test something small enough that
such a true-or-false assertion is meaningful, which leads to
well-designed code with small easily-tested code units. But that's an
emergent property, not a natural law.

> Currently, I don't create mocks of units if they are within the same
> class with the unit under test. If that is not right approach, please,
> explain what are best practices... I am just learning TDD..

In the fixture of the unit test case, create whatever test doubles are
necessary to put your code into the initial state you need for the test
case; then tear all those down whatever the result of the test case.

If you need to create great honking wads of fixtures for any test case,
that is a code smell: your code units are too tightly coupled to
persistent state, and need to be decoupled with narrow interfaces.

The Python ?unittest? module makes this easier by letting you define
fixtures common to many test cases (the ?setUp? and ?tearDown?
interface). My rule of thumb is: if I need to make different fixtures
for some set of test cases, I write a new test case class for those
cases.

-- 
 \       ?Following fashion and the status quo is easy. Thinking about |
  `\        your users' lives and creating something practical is much |
_o__)                                harder.? ?Ryan Singer, 2008-07-09 |
Ben Finney


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 20:38:29 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 01:38:29 GMT
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<0f783ced-0414-4b44-acf1-79f8d288f41c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.01.38.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:13:23 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> And once you realize that every program is really a compiler, then you
> have truly mastered the Zen of Programming in Any Programming Language
> That Will Ever Exist.

In the same way that every tool is really a screwdriver.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 20:39:05 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 01:39:05 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04:00 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> (What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a
> subroutine, a method, or a block?)

The name is used in Pascal, which probably means it originated from 
Fortran or Algol. 

A subroutine is a generic piece of code which can be re-used by some 
unspecified mechanism (GOSUB in Basic, by calling it in most other 
languages). A function is a subroutine that returns a result, and a 
procedure is a subroutine that doesn't return anything (not even None, or 
the equivalent thereof) and operates entirely by side-effect.



-- 
Steven


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 20:44:11 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:44:11 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
In-Reply-To: <15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
	<15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002171744h8eaf9d4m2daa4c48154d8fa2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Dan Yamins <dyamins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Really, nobody has any idea about this??? (Sorry to repost.)
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Dan Yamins <dyamins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I'm wondering what the best way to wrap and modify function calls is.
>> Essentially what I want to achieve is to have a function like this:
>>
>> def Wrap(frame,event,arg):
>> ???? if event == 'call':
>> ??????? result = PerformCheck(GetArgumentsFromFrame(frame))
>> ??????? if Condition(result):
>> ??????????? return result
>> ??????? else:
>> ??????????? return [normal function call]
>>
>> called whenever a "call" event is about to occur.
>>
>> When I say "return result" I mean:? return that data object instead of
>> what the function would have returned, and prevent execution of the
>> function.
>>
>> Is there any way to do this using sys.settrace?? Or perhaps something from
>> the bdb or pbd module?
>>
>
> In other words, what I'm looking for is a way to intercept all function
> calls with a "wrapper" --? like one can do using settrace and other
> debugging methods -- but, unlike the debugging methods, have the "wrapping"
> function actually be able to intervene in the stack and, for instance,
> conditionally replace the function call's return with something determined
> in the wrapping function and prevent the function call's execution.?? I want
> to be able to do this by setting a single system-wide (or at any rate,
> thread-wide) value, like with settrace, and not have to modify individual
> functions one by one.
>
> Could I, for example, set a settrace function that somehow modifies the
> stack?? Or is there some much better way to do this?? Or, if someone can
> tell me that this can't be done without having to roll my own implementation
> of the Python interpreter, that would be great to know too.
>
> Thanks again,
> Dan
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

You could drill down through everything in globals() etc, replacing
functions as you went,
but its fragile (there are probably unworkable corner cases), ugly,
and likely to be slow.
What exactly is it you're trying to do?

Geremy Condra


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb 17 21:23:19 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:23:19 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.06.40@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <87ocjncmeg.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:30 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

[..]
 
>> If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and
>> if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
>> nick name using
>> 
>> local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';
> [...]
>> As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
>> shown.
>
> Given that it has a nice name, what makes it an anonymous function?

You can't do 

nice name();

It just changes what perl reports.

> If this is the case, then your answer to "anonymous functions are a
> PITA" 

I don't think anon functions are in general a
PITA. Like with most things, (I) use them in moderation.

> is "don't use anonymous functions", which exactly the same answer we'd 
> give here in Python land. The only difference is that Perl provides two 
> ways of making a named function, and Python only one[1].

Note that the local trick doesn't create a named function. There are
other ways of course to create named functions in Perl, e.g.

perl -e '*foo=sub { print "hello, world\n" }; foo();'

Which can be fun:

perl -e '
sub AUTOLOAD {
    my $name = our $AUTOLOAD;
    *$AUTOLOAD = sub { local $" = ", "; print "$name(@_)\n" };
    goto &$AUTOLOAD;
}
foo(40);
bar("hello", "world!");
baz(foo(10));'

output:

main::foo(40)
main::bar(hello, world!)
main::foo(10)
main::baz(1)

NB: calling foo 10 returns 1 (return value of print).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 21:27:41 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 5:39?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04:00 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > (What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a
> > subroutine, a method, or a block?)
>
> The name is used in Pascal, which probably means it originated from
> Fortran or Algol.
>
> A subroutine is a generic piece of code which can be re-used by some
> unspecified mechanism (GOSUB in Basic, by calling it in most other
> languages). A function is a subroutine that returns a result, and a
> procedure is a subroutine that doesn't return anything (not even None, or
> the equivalent thereof) and operates entirely by side-effect.
>

Those are useful clarifications, but they are not completely
universal.

Some people make the definition of function more restrictive--"if it
has side effects, it is not a function."

Python's definition of a method is also not universal.  In some
circles, method is more akin to Steven's definition of a procedure--it
does not necessarily have to be associated with a class.

It's all very confusing, which is why Pythonistas are typically
adamant about clarifying definitions within Python's context, which is
understandable.  To the extent that we're all talking about one
programming language, we should use the same terms.

A quick Google search does not turn up an official definition of a
Ruby block, although the term "block" is colloquially used in both
Python and Ruby to refer to a bunch of lines of code executed in a
particular context, like a loop.

Python may not support the broadest notion of anonymous functions, but
it definitely has anonymous blocks.  You can write this in Python:

    for i in range(10):
        print i
        print i * i
        print i * i * i

Python does not force you to do this:

    def do_stuff(i):
        print i
        print i * i
        print i * i * i
    for i in range(10):
        do_stuff(i)


From jmheralds at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 21:29:49 2010
From: jmheralds at gmail.com (James Heralds)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:29:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Draft paper submission deadline is extended: SETP-10, Orlando, USA
Message-ID: <e63e18cd-8cda-4e31-8bf0-114b03a04f33@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

It would be highly appreciated if you could share this announcement
with your colleagues, students and individuals whose research is in
software engineering, software testing, software quality assurance,
software design and related areas.

Draft paper submission deadline is extended: SETP-10, Orlando, USA

The 2010 International Conference on Software Engineering Theory and
Practice (SETP-10) (website: http://www.PromoteResearch.org) will be
held during 12-14 of July 2010 in Orlando, FL, USA.  SETP is an
important event in the areas of Software development, maintenance, and
other areas of software engineering and related topics.

The conference will be held at the same time and location where
several other major international conferences will be taking place.
The conference will be held as part of 2010 multi-conference
(MULTICONF-10). MULTICONF-10 will be held during July 12-14, 2010 in
Orlando, Florida, USA. The primary goal of MULTICONF is to promote
research and developmental activities in computer science, information
technology, control engineering, and related fields. Another goal is
to promote the dissemination of research to a multidisciplinary
audience and to facilitate communication among researchers,
developers, practitioners in different fields. The following
conferences are planned to be organized as part of MULTICONF-10.

?	International Conference on Artificial Intelligence and Pattern
Recognition (AIPR-10)
?	 International Conference on Automation, Robotics and Control
Systems (ARCS-10)
?	International Conference on Bioinformatics, Computational Biology,
Genomics and Chemoinformatics (BCBGC-10)
?	International Conference on Computer Communications and Networks
(CCN-10)
?	International Conference on Enterprise Information Systems and Web
Technologies (EISWT-10)
?	International Conference on High Performance Computing Systems
(HPCS-10)
?	International Conference on Information Security and Privacy
(ISP-10)
?	International Conference on Image and Video Processing and Computer
Vision (IVPCV-10)
?	International Conference on Software Engineering Theory and Practice
(SETP-10)
?	International Conference on Theoretical and Mathematical Foundations
of Computer Science (TMFCS-10)

MULTICONF-10 will be held at Imperial Swan Hotel and Suites.  It is a
full-service resort that puts you in the middle of the fun! Located
1/2 block south of the famed International Drive, the hotel is just
minutes from great entertainment like Walt Disney World? Resort,
Universal Studios and Sea World Orlando. Guests can enjoy free
scheduled transportation to these theme parks, as well as spacious
accommodations, outdoor pools and on-site dining ? all situated on 10
tropically landscaped acres. Here, guests can experience a full-
service resort with discount hotel pricing in Orlando.


We invite draft paper submissions. Please see the website
http://www.PromoteResearch.org for more details.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 21:42:44 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2677.1266440303.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a21dbc5c-28dd-4d18-9b97-3a0048b37659@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> Now wrap *every* function you are interested in. Builtin functions are
> no problem; methods of builtin classes cannont be wrapped without
> subclassing.

It's a shame it's not possible to do:

    type.__call__ = func_wrap(type.__call__)

Or even:

    type.__class__ = NewType


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 21:59:14 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:59:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4B7C4284.8070709@optimum.net>
	<9049f975-cd60-4591-a73b-1142a0728ee7@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2680.1266447393.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5906ad53-5853-4021-8af6-8b91b2a7e3e5@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 11:56?pm, Dave Angel <da... at ieee.org> wrote:
> Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> > On Feb 17, 8:24 pm, John Posner <jjpos... at optimum.net> wrote:
>
> >> On 2/17/2010 1:10 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>
> >> <snip>
>
> > However the values list might have an uneven number of items. I would
> > like to make it as evenly distributed as possible, e.g.:
>
> > values =-2, -1, 0]
> > frames =obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4, obj5, obj6, obj7, obj8]
>
> > frames[0].func(values[0]) ?# func.(values[-2])
> > frames[1].func(values[0]) ?# func.(values[-2])
> > frames[2].func(values[1]) ?# func.(values[-2])
> > frames[3].func(values[1]) ?# func.(values[-1])
> > frames[4].func(values[1]) ?# func.(values[-1])
> > frames[5].func(values[2]) ?# func.(values[-1])
> > frames[6].func(values[2]) ?# func.(values[0])
> > frames[7].func(values[2]) ?# func.(values[0])
>
> > I'll be even more specific. I have a Minimum and Maximum value that
> > the user enters. The frame.func() function is a "translate" function,
> > it basically moves a frame in the application in one direction or
> > another depending on the argument value. So frame[0].func(2) would
> > move the frame[0] 2 pixels to the right. So what I want is the
> > function to create a smooth transition of all the frames from the
> > Minimum to the Maximum value. If minimum was 0, and maximum was 10,
> > I'd want the first frame moved 0 pixels (it stays in place), the last
> > frame to move 10 pixels, and the frames between are gradually moved
> > from 1 pixels to 9 pixels relative from their positions.
>
> > Perhaps I'm just overcomplicating. I'll have a look at some drawing
> > apps and see how they've implemented drawing straight lines under an
> > angle, I guess that could be called a gradual change of values.
>
> > Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I'll have a look at the rest
> > shortly.
>
> I think you're overcomplicating. ?If you have 27 frames, and you want
> frame 0 to move 0 pixels, and frame 27 to move 10 pixels, then you want
> to move frame[i] by i*10/27. ?And since you do the multiply first, the
> fact that Python 2.x division gives you integers isn't a problem.
>
> There are fancier methods for drawing lines (bresenham for example), but
> the main purpose of them is to to avoid multiply and divide, as well as
> floats. ?But in Python, an integer multiply is just as fast as an add or
> subtract, so there's no point.
>
> DaveA

Doh! Such a simple solution, just what I was looking for. Thanks!


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 22:10:31 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:10:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9f05027-97b2-4d01-93d7-1542d1a4f584@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 4:19?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 11:41?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
> > > have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
>
> > >http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de...
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Casey
>
> > Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
> > linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
> > block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
> > statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
> > point?"
>
> > I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
> > expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
> > in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
> > statements, for crying out loud use a def? And who needs those "do-
> > end" blocks anyway, trying to turn Python into Pascal?
>
> I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
> nice feature for Python.
>
> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> I became enlightened.

I use Ruby a lot in my day job, and we rarely use blocks are as
anonymous callback functions, which was probably the source of your
pain in other languages.

Often Ruby blocks are just three or four lines of code that are
inlined into a still small function, so as long as the outer function
is still small (which Ruby's blocks help with--they promote
terseness), it's pretty easy to find a buggy function within a
traceback that is not overly big.

It's also possible in Ruby to use quality-promoting techniques like
unit testing, pair programming, deliberateness, etc., to avoid the
need for looking at tracebacks in the first place.

Python is not immune to hard-to-understand tracebacks, since you often
don't often know how a method got itself into the stracktrace in the
first place:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "foo.py", line 11, in <module>
    foo(method)
  File "foo.py", line 2, in foo
    method()
  File "foo.py", line 5, in bar
    raise Exception('I am broken!')
Exception: I am broken!

Even though there's no direct lexical reference to bar() in foo(), lo
and behold, foo() ends up calling bar():

def foo(method):
    method()

def bar():
    raise Exception('I am broken!')

def broken_function_factory():
    return bar

method = broken_function_factory()
foo(method)


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 22:18:14 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:18:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <e4623dc2-ff2a-43e9-9ce8-ad7a3c5fd04a@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 10:39?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> > with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> > I became enlightened.
>
> If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported

Ok so sonetimes I'm looking at a stack trace and sometimes I can tell
what the bug is just by lookong at the function namess.  But if it has
just line numbers I have to dig through my code looking for the line.


> and
> if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
> nick name using
>
> local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';
>
> Finding an issue, and not looking for a solution is not called becoming
> enlightened ;-)

The issue is that a stacktrace showing a bunch of nameless line
numbers can be a bad idea, not that Perl might be deficient (and we
already know that in any case), so it's not good to use a lot of
them.  Anyway once you annotate an anonymous function, it's no longer
anonymous.


> ~$ perl -e '
> use Carp;
>
> my $anon = sub { local *__ANON__ = "hello, world"; croak "oops"; };
> $anon->();
> '
>
> oops at -e line 4
> ? ? ? ? main::hello, world() called at -e line 5
>
> As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
> shown.
>
> If you generate anonymouse functions on the fly based on parameters, you
> can encode this into the nice name, of course.
>
> Sadly, often bold statements about a language are made in ignorance.

I don't see what he said was any kind of a bold statement about a
language, arguably it was about the coding style.  That Perl allows
annotating functions doesn't mean people do it.


Carl Banks
>
> [1] perl is the program that executes Perl programs ;-).
>
> --
> John Bokma ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? j3b
>
> Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - ?http://johnbokma.com/http://castleamber.com/- Perl & Python Development



From philip at semanchuk.com  Wed Feb 17 22:27:27 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:27:27 -0500
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
Message-ID: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>

Hi all,
I'm the author of an extension (posix_ipc) that works under Python 2.4  
- 2.6. I have a version that works under Python 2.4-2.6 and 3.1 and I  
would like to release it, but it doesn't work under Python 3.0. I  
could hack up Python 3.0-specific workarounds, but I'm not sure it's  
worth it. I'm interested in opinions -- is Python 3.0 seeing use in  
production anywhere, or did most of the Python world move to 3.1 as  
soon as it was released?


Thanks
Philip


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Feb 17 22:36:13 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:36:13 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters (the
	latest)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2620.1266338135.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2620.1266338135.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7CB5AD.6000900@invalid.com>

 > On 17 February 2010 07:25,  <josef.pktd at gmail.com> wrote:
 > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Wayne Watson
 > > <sierra_mtnview at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 >> >> Hi, I'm working on a 1800+ line program that uses tkinter. Here 
are the
 >> >> messages I started getting recently. (I finally figured out how 
to copy
 >> >> them.). The program goes merrily on its way despite them.
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >> >> s\sentuser>sentuser_20080716NoiseStudy7.py
 >> >> C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\scipy\misc\__init__.py:25:
 >> >> DeprecationWarning: Num
 >> >> pyTest will be removed in the next release; please update your 
code to
 >> >> use nose
 >> >> or unittest
 >> >>   test = NumpyTest().test
 > >
 > > DeprecationWarnings mean some some functionality in numpy (or scipy)
 > > has changed and the old way of doing things will be removed and be
 > > invalid in the next version.
 > >
 > > During depreciation the old code still works, but before you upgrade
 > > you might want to check whether and how much you use these functions
 > > and switch to the new behavior.
 > >
 > > In the case of numpy.test, it means that if you have tests written
 > > that use the numpy testing module, then you need to switch them to the
 > > new nose based numpy.testing. And you need to install nose for running
 > > numpy.test()
Wayne - The DeprecationWarnings are being raised by SciPy, not by your
code. You probably don't have a recent version of SciPy installed. The
most recent release of SciPy is 0.7.1 and works with NumPy 1.3.0. I
don't think you will see the warnings if you upgrade SciPy and NumPy
on your system.

Check your NumPy and SciPy versions at a python prompt as follows:

 >>> >>> import numpy as np
 >>> >>> print np.__version__
 >>> >>> import scipy as sp
 >>> >>> print sp.__version__
You will need to completely remove the old versions if you choose to
upgrade. You should be able to do this from "Add/Remove Programs".

Cheers,
Scott
_______________________________________________
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion at scipy.org
http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion





From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Feb 17 22:36:24 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:36:24 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters (the
	latest)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2620.1266338135.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2620.1266338135.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7CB5B8.3010000@invalid.com>

 > On 17 February 2010 07:25,  <josef.pktd at gmail.com> wrote:
 > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Wayne Watson
 > > <sierra_mtnview at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 >> >> Hi, I'm working on a 1800+ line program that uses tkinter. Here 
are the
 >> >> messages I started getting recently. (I finally figured out how 
to copy
 >> >> them.). The program goes merrily on its way despite them.
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >> >> s\sentuser>sentuser_20080716NoiseStudy7.py
 >> >> C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\scipy\misc\__init__.py:25:
 >> >> DeprecationWarning: Num
 >> >> pyTest will be removed in the next release; please update your 
code to
 >> >> use nose
 >> >> or unittest
 >> >>   test = NumpyTest().test
 > >
 > > DeprecationWarnings mean some some functionality in numpy (or scipy)
 > > has changed and the old way of doing things will be removed and be
 > > invalid in the next version.
 > >
 > > During depreciation the old code still works, but before you upgrade
 > > you might want to check whether and how much you use these functions
 > > and switch to the new behavior.
 > >
 > > In the case of numpy.test, it means that if you have tests written
 > > that use the numpy testing module, then you need to switch them to the
 > > new nose based numpy.testing. And you need to install nose for running
 > > numpy.test()
Wayne - The DeprecationWarnings are being raised by SciPy, not by your
code. You probably don't have a recent version of SciPy installed. The
most recent release of SciPy is 0.7.1 and works with NumPy 1.3.0. I
don't think you will see the warnings if you upgrade SciPy and NumPy
on your system.

Check your NumPy and SciPy versions at a python prompt as follows:

 >>> >>> import numpy as np
 >>> >>> print np.__version__
 >>> >>> import scipy as sp
 >>> >>> print sp.__version__
You will need to completely remove the old versions if you choose to
upgrade. You should be able to do this from "Add/Remove Programs".

Cheers,
Scott
_______________________________________________
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion at scipy.org
http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion





From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Feb 17 22:39:41 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:39:41 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters (the
	latest)
Message-ID: <hlicpv$m8o$6@news.eternal-september.org>

Had trouble posting this to the same thread above. Request above to 
provide response from numpy mail list.

 > On 17 February 2010 07:25,  <josef.pktd at gmail.com> wrote:
 > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Wayne Watson
 > > <sierra_mtnview at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 >> >> Hi, I'm working on a 1800+ line program that uses tkinter. Here 
are the
 >> >> messages I started getting recently. (I finally figured out how 
to copy
 >> >> them.). The program goes merrily on its way despite them.
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >> >> s\sentuser>sentuser_20080716NoiseStudy7.py
 >> >> C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\scipy\misc\__init__.py:25:
 >> >> DeprecationWarning: Num
 >> >> pyTest will be removed in the next release; please update your 
code to
 >> >> use nose
 >> >> or unittest
 >> >>   test = NumpyTest().test
 > >
 > > DeprecationWarnings mean some some functionality in numpy (or scipy)
 > > has changed and the old way of doing things will be removed and be
 > > invalid in the next version.
 > >
 > > During depreciation the old code still works, but before you upgrade
 > > you might want to check whether and how much you use these functions
 > > and switch to the new behavior.
 > >
 > > In the case of numpy.test, it means that if you have tests written
 > > that use the numpy testing module, then you need to switch them to the
 > > new nose based numpy.testing. And you need to install nose for running
 > > numpy.test()
Wayne - The DeprecationWarnings are being raised by SciPy, not by your
code. You probably don't have a recent version of SciPy installed. The
most recent release of SciPy is 0.7.1 and works with NumPy 1.3.0. I
don't think you will see the warnings if you upgrade SciPy and NumPy
on your system.

Check your NumPy and SciPy versions at a python prompt as follows:

 >>> >>> import numpy as np
 >>> >>> print np.__version__
 >>> >>> import scipy as sp
 >>> >>> print sp.__version__
You will need to completely remove the old versions if you choose to
upgrade. You should be able to do this from "Add/Remove Programs".

Cheers,
Scott
_______________________________________________
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion at scipy.org
http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion





From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Feb 17 22:42:28 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:42:28 -0800
Subject: Wrestling with the Py2exe Install, Win7, Py2.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2650.1266407111.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2650.1266407111.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlicv6$m8o$7@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/17/2010 3:44 AM, mk wrote:
> W. eWatson wrote:
>
>
> P.S. I didn't really use PyInstaller on Windows, though -- just on
> Linux, where it works beautifully.
>
> Regards,
> mk
>
Well,Ive made some progress with a py2exe tutorial. It starts with the 
short "hello world!" program. But something stumbled right away in 
setup.py. I'm on a mail list to sort this out.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 17 22:51:11 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:51:11 +0000
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
In-Reply-To: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
References: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
Message-ID: <4B7CB92F.9050100@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Philip Semanchuk wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm the author of an extension (posix_ipc) that works under Python 2.4 - 
> 2.6. I have a version that works under Python 2.4-2.6 and 3.1 and I 
> would like to release it, but it doesn't work under Python 3.0. I could 
> hack up Python 3.0-specific workarounds, but I'm not sure it's worth it. 
> I'm interested in opinions -- is Python 3.0 seeing use in production 
> anywhere, or did most of the Python world move to 3.1 as soon as it was 
> released?
> 
Python 3.0 had a relatively short run before it was superseded by Python
3.1 due to certain issues, so, IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it unless
someone especially requests/requires it.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 17 23:13:59 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:13:59 -0800
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
References: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xfx4zp4e0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josh English <joshua.r.english at gmail.com> writes:
> Has anyone heard of a module that parses wiki markup and transforms
> it? Or am I looking at XSLT?

MediaWiki markup is quite messy and unless MediaWiki has an XML export
feature that I don't know about, I don't see what good XSLT can do you.
(The regular MediaWiki API generates XML results with wiki markup
embedded in it).  It looks like mediawiki itself can create pdf's (see
any page on en.wikibooks.org for example), but the rendered pdf is not
that attractive.

I remember something about a Haskell module to parse mediawiki markup,
if that is of any use.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Thu Feb 18 00:19:54 2010
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:19:54 -0800
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
In-Reply-To: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
References: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
Message-ID: <hliilp$8n3$1@ger.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Philip Semanchuk wrote:
> is Python 3.0 seeing use in production
> anywhere, or did most of the Python world move to 3.1 as soon as it was
> released?

Python 3.0 has been end of lifed:

  http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0.1/

Consequently no one should be using it in production.  Incidentally my own
extension is in a similar situation to yours - Python 2.3 onwards is
supported for the 2.x family.  I did support 3.0 from beta releases onwards
but various changes in the library between 3.0 and 3.1 and the end of lifing
of 3.0 meant I dropped 3.0 support.  No one has asked for it since.

Roger
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkt8zfoACgkQmOOfHg372QS2cACgznTcQXRcxMqqlfIt4F0C2TaX
d9IAoNhkY1dvX1aKlONyVGIL2zplNNF7
=jM8O
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 00:20:15 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:20:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
References: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com> 
	<mailman.2692.1266465072.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d457056b-6b9c-4a30-8532-850d7f2ea074@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Python 3.0 had a relatively short run before it was superseded by Python
> 3.1 due to certain issues, so, IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it unless
> someone especially requests/requires it.

And even then, I'd just tell them I accept patches :)


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 01:48:43 2010
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:48:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
Message-ID: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

I need to implement custom import hooks for an application (http://
www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an application
to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app engine is
using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in google/
appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses
socket module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk.
Finding out, which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If
the application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But
if the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any
way I can do this ?

Application
========
import sdk
import socket               # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
ImportError)

SDK
====
import socket               # need to allow this


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 03:03:51 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 10:48?pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an application
> to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app engine is
> using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in google/
> appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses
> socket module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk.
> Finding out, which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If
> the application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But
> if the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any
> way I can do this ?
>
> Application
> ========
> import sdk
> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
> ImportError)
>
> SDK
> ====
> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this


SDK
===
import socket

App
===
import SDK
import sys
socket = sys.modules['socket']


From timr at probo.com  Thu Feb 18 03:07:02 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:07:02 -0800
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>

DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hm, well I see that and now I am thinking of using reference software
>for MPEG4/10 which is written in c++  http://iphome.hhi.de/suehring/tml/
>just to use it as a decoder on my client side, save the file in that
>format and then play it in my player using pyffmpeg
>http://code.google.com/p/pyffmpeg/ and just manipulate frames in that
>clip-I think that could be possible....am I right?

After you have passed the video through a decoder, it's no longer in MPEG
format at all.  It's just a series of bitmaps, so pyffmpeg wouldn't apply.

If you want to save the raw MPEG data, you can certainly do that, but such
data is often not divided into "frames".
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 03:57:01 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 08:57:01 GMT
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> On Feb 17, 10:48?pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
>> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
>> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
>> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
>> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
>> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
>> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
>> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
>> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
>> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
>> I can do this ?
>>
>> Application
>> ========
>> import sdk
>> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
>> ImportError)
>>
>> SDK
>> ====
>> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this
> 
> 
> SDK
> ===
> import socket
> 
> App
> ===
> import SDK
> import sys
> socket = sys.modules['socket']


I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App 
layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a 
prohibition in the SDK layer.

In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:

if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
    prohibit
else
    allow



I could be wrong of course.



-- 
Steven


From lallous at lgwm.org  Thu Feb 18 04:09:58 2010
From: lallous at lgwm.org (lallous)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:09:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
Message-ID: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hello

Is there is any Python library that allow such things:

Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
can develop the equation for example.
Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
( rest of expression ).
There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
expression can be evaluated.
If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
preserved.

Does such a thing exist?

Thanks,
Elias


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb 18 04:17:42 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:17:42 -0800
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
In-Reply-To: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002180117v7f9cd5e5rbcf4276581369468@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:09 AM, lallous <lallous at lgwm.org> wrote:
> Hello
>
> Is there is any Python library that allow such things:
>
> Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
> can develop the equation for example.
> Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
> ( rest of expression ).
> There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
> expression can be evaluated.
> If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
> preserved.
>
> Does such a thing exist?

They're called computer algebra systems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_algebra_system

SymPy is one for Python:
http://code.google.com/p/sympy/

Don't know if it supports factoring specifically; I've never used it,
I just have Google-Fu.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 18 04:23:29 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 09:23:29 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message
>> <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517... at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> > I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
>> > nice feature for Python.
>>
>> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming
>> > language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>>
>> Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?
>>
>> What more do you need?
> 
> I don't know, but I tend to find the name of the function I called to
> be useful. It's much more memorable than line numbers, particularly
> when line numbers keep changing.
> 
> I doubt it's just me, though.

Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors:

In any language it isn't much use if you get a bug report from a shipped
program that says there was an error on line 793 but no report of
exactly which version of the shipped code was being run. 

Microsoft love telling you the line number: if IE gets a Javascript
error it reports line number but not filename, so you have to guess
which of the HTML page or one of many included files actually had the
error. Plus the line number that is reported is often slightly off. 

Javascript in particular is often sent to the browser compressed then
uncompressed and eval'd. That makes line numbers completely useless for
tracking down bugs as you'll always get the line number of the eval.
Also the way functions are defined in Javascript means you'll often have
almost every function listed in a backtrace as 'Anonymous'. 

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 04:24:10 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:24:10 +0100
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
In-Reply-To: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002180124x493d3fccn551b53637f8300ce@mail.gmail.com>

> Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
> can develop the equation for example.
> Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
> ( rest of expression ).
> There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
> expression can be evaluated.
> If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
> preserved.

Take a look at sage: http://www.sagemath.org/
I wouldn't say it's simple, in fact it's huge, but it'll do the job.

Cheers,
Daniel

-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 04:28:37 2010
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:28:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 1:57?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > On Feb 17, 10:48?pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
>
> >> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
> >> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
> >> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
> >> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
> >> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
> >> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
> >> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
> >> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
> >> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
> >> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
> >> I can do this ?
>
> >> Application
> >> ========
> >> import sdk
> >> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
> >> ImportError)
>
> >> SDK
> >> ====
> >> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this
>
> > SDK
> > ===
> > import socket
>
> > App
> > ===
> > import SDK
> > import sys
> > socket = sys.modules['socket']
>
> I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
> layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
> prohibition in the SDK layer.
>
> In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>
> if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
> ? ? prohibit
> else
> ? ? allow
>
> I could be wrong of course.
>
> --
> Steven

@Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 04:43:17 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:43:17 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2679.1266444858.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2679.1266444858.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d0baa$0$13729$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Mark Lawrence a ?crit :
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:
>>
>>> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and
>>> IMHO beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit
>>> peculiar when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
>> [?]
>>
>> Bruno, that's the first time I've understood the descriptor protocol, or
>> even understood *why* the descriptor protocol is important.
>>
>> Could you please post (a version of) this as a separate article
>> somewhere? A weblog post, or a new thread in this forum, or in the
>> documentation? Somewhere that web searches will find it prominently when
>> searching for the Python descriptor protocol.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
> 
> I'll second, third and fourth this request.  More please Bruno, or from 
> anybody similarly qualified.
> 
> Thanks very much.


First, thanks Ben and Mark for the kind words...

I never tried to google for them, but there must be at least 4 previous 
posts here where I tried to explain the topic. Perhaps this latest 
attempt was better ?-) But anyway : if it's about making this text 
easier to find, it seems that posting it here is not the most efficient 
solution !-)

Anyway : I don't have a blog and don't really have enough time / 
motivation for blogging. Now if anyone is willing and able to host such 
  a text on his own website / blog / whatever, I'd be happy to rework it 
a bit.

/wrt to have it in the documentation and the "from anybody similarly 
qualified", there's already a pretty comprehensive article in the 
official docs (well : linked from the official docs), from someone who's 
_way_ more qualified that I'll ever be - FWIW, everything I explained 
here and all my knowledge of the descriptor protocol, methods etc come 
from this article:

http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm

But I understand it can be a bit intimidating for newcomers, so yes, 
perhaps a lighter introductory text could be helpful. So guys, if you 
think a revised version of my post would be of interest, I'll take you 
on words: provide the hosting, I'll provide the content !-)

B.


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 04:50:14 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:50:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 04:59:40 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:59:40 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002171051o4bc48483qbb82cc65668434f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002171051o4bc48483qbb82cc65668434f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlj30c$iac$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> Or just leave it as a top level function where it was perfectly happy to 
> live :)

Yes. This is probably the sanest solution anyway, because probably 
having many such functions to use, packing them into smth like 
package.utils anyway is a good idea. I'm trying mainly to learn and 
test-drive such solutions, not that I would be keen to use them 
excessively in production code.

>     This obviously means no other method can call it like
>     self.print_internal_date(), because self would get passed as first
>     argument, yes?
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to be. It could be a class method-- @classmethod does 
> that, makes it receive 'cls' the actual class as the first argument. Or 
> a @staticmethod, in which case it has no first-argument at all.

Ahh now I get it. Thanks! So that's the use for @staticmethod (I was 
wondering if there was any).



From snakylove at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 05:09:39 2010
From: snakylove at googlemail.com (Snaky Love)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:09:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to use AWS/PAA nowadays? PyAWS / pyamazon outdated?
Message-ID: <555ef5e9-dc90-494d-affc-a78389f6922f@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

is anybody aware of any updated and / or maintained library for
accessing AWS/PAA with Python? I found the dusty pyamazon and a
derivate of it, pyaws, but both of them do not seem to support request
signatures which must be used by August 15, 2009 to use the Amazon
Services, and generally seem to be a little bit outdated...

Is there a better way doing signed requests to AWS/PAA nowadays? How
are you doing it?

I found a good PHP Library here: http://getcloudfusion.com/docs - but
I would like to program stuff with python - is there anything pythonic
that is close to that?

Thank you very much for your attention,
have a nice day,
Snaky


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Feb 18 05:36:30 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:36:30 +1100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2679.1266444858.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7d0baa$0$13729$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87d402bzkh.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:

> perhaps a lighter introductory text could be helpful. So guys, if you
> think a revised version of my post would be of interest, I'll take you
> on words: provide the hosting, I'll provide the content !-)

Here, let me work my hosting magic: <URL:http://wiki.python.org/>.

-- 
 \            ?Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what |
  `\                mnemonic means, you've got a problem.? ?Larry Wall |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From leo at lspace.org  Thu Feb 18 05:46:58 2010
From: leo at lspace.org (Leo Breebaart)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 10:46:58 GMT
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net> <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <7u4k52F6jsU1@mid.individual.net>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> Descriptors to the rescue :)
> 
> def read_body_from(filename):
>     print "** loading content **"
>     return "<content of '%s'>" % filename
> 
> # This is a kind of class property
> class TemplateFilename(object):
>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>         return "%s.tmpl" % cls.__name__
> 
> # And this is a kind of cached class property
> class TemplateBody(object):
>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>         try:
>             return cls._body
>         except AttributeError:
>             cls._body = read_body_from(cls.template_filename)
>             return cls._body
> 
> class Foo(object):
>     template_filename = TemplateFilename()
>     template_body = TemplateBody()
> 
> class FooA(Foo):
>    pass
> 
> class FooB(Foo):
>    pass

Very enlightening, thanks!

By the way, I completely agree with the other posters in this
thread that intricate solutions such as this are likely to be
overkill, especially since at this point I have no idea if the
inefficiency of reading those templates multiple times would at
all matter (frankly, I'd doubt it). But it's certainly been
educational to learn about these techniques.

One observation: if I implement the descriptor solution as given
above, the code works perfectly, but running the code through
pychecker now causes an error, because that again causes an
attempt to read from the non-existant base class template file
"Foo.tmpl"...

-- 
Leo Breebaart  <leo at lspace.org>


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 18 05:49:28 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:49:28 +0100
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
In-Reply-To: <f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D1B38.6080800@sequans.com>

Sreejith K wrote:
> On Feb 18, 1:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>   
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>     
>>> On Feb 17, 10:48 pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>         
>>>> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
>>>> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
>>>> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
>>>> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
>>>> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
>>>> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
>>>> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
>>>> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
>>>> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
>>>> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
>>>> I can do this ?
>>>>         
>>>> Application
>>>> ========
>>>> import sdk
>>>> import socket               # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
>>>> ImportError)
>>>>         
>>>> SDK
>>>> ====
>>>> import socket               # need to allow this
>>>>         
>>> SDK
>>> ===
>>> import socket
>>>       
>>> App
>>> ===
>>> import SDK
>>> import sys
>>> socket = sys.modules['socket']
>>>       
>> I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
>> layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
>> prohibition in the SDK layer.
>>
>> In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>>
>> if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
>>     prohibit
>> else
>>     allow
>>
>> I could be wrong of course.
>>
>> --
>> Steven
>>     
>
> @Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??
>   

import sys
sys.modules['socket'] = None


import socket
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call last)

ImportError: No module named socket


JM




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 05:50:13 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:50:13 +0100
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002180124x493d3fccn551b53637f8300ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<fbe2e2101002180124x493d3fccn551b53637f8300ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002180250x79f70db2j3da4a23d08d6178a@mail.gmail.com>

>> Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
>> can develop the equation for example.
>> Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
>> ( rest of expression ).
>> There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
>> expression can be evaluated.
>> If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
>> preserved.
>
> Take a look at sage: http://www.sagemath.org/
> I wouldn't say it's simple, in fact it's huge, but it'll do the job.

Probably you can isolate the part of sage that you actually need and
can throw away 95% of it.

HTH,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Thu Feb 18 06:09:05 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:09:05 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002131819x4ba766dds245220760ef74ff1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
	<7f014ea61002131819x4ba766dds245220760ef74ff1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100218110905.GB30547@debian-eeepc>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 09:19:59PM -0500, Chris Colbert wrote:
>    You'll need acpi installed:
>    In [6]: import subprocess

Thanks for that code, I'll try putting something together this weekend.

Dan


From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Thu Feb 18 06:11:51 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:11:51 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <4B775EA0.7080207@tim.thechases.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
	<4B775EA0.7080207@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <20100218111151.GA31441@debian-eeepc>

I'm not sure I have those files, but I'll look a little harder this
weekend when I put together the script. 

Thanks for your help, 
Dan

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 08:23:28PM -0600, Tim Chase wrote:
> Daniel Dalton wrote:
> >On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 05:26:02PM -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
> >>It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
> >
> >Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux.
> 
> You should be able to read/poll the various files in
> 
>   /proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/*
> 
> for whatever battery information you need.  Each BAT* directory
> contains information about one of the batteries in the system (it's
> possible, albeit rare, to have more than one).  So you might have
> some script that runs every $INTERVAL that looks something like
> 
>   from glob import glob
>   for fname in glob('/proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/*'):
>     f = file(fname)
>     for line in f:
>       do_something(line)
>     f.close()
> 
> On my Debian laptop (Gateway Solo 1200, OEM battery circa 2001), the
> contents look something like
> 
> tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat alarm
> alarm:                   unsupported
> tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat info
> present:                 yes
> design capacity:         4016 mAh
> last full capacity:      4011 mAh
> battery technology:      rechargeable
> design voltage:          9600 mV
> design capacity warning: 602 mAh
> design capacity low:     401 mAh
> capacity granularity 1:  201 mAh
> capacity granularity 2:  3409 mAh
> model number:            QT08
> serial number:           SANYOQT08
> battery type:            NiMH
> OEM info:                SANYO
> tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat state
> present:                 yes
> capacity state:          ok
> charging state:          charged
> present rate:            unknown
> remaining capacity:      4011 mAh
> present voltage:         9600 mV
> 
> 
> 
> -tkc
> 


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 06:12:36 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:12:36 +0100
Subject: Static method
Message-ID: <hlj793$ra$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

Disclaimer: I'm doing this mainly for learning purposes, to feel what 
it's good for.

I'm trying to get print_internal_date become a static method AND to 
refer to it in a class attribute 'tagdata' dict.

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
     'python file properties'

     @staticmethod
     def print_internal_date(filename):
         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
         data = f.read(8)
         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
             }

     def __init__(self, fname=None):
         FileInfo.__init__(self,fname)

     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
         FileInfo.__setitem__(self, key, value)
         if key == 'name' and value:
             self.__get_props(value)

     def __get_props(self, value):
         py_compile.compile(value)
         for tag, fun in PYFileInfo.tagdata.items():
             self[tag] = fun(value)

But:

c:/Python26/pythonw.exe -u  "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py"
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 100, in <module>
     insts = list_dir(r'c:\mp3i',['.mp3', '.py'])
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 93, in list_dir
     insts = [c(f) for c,f in class_files]
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 69, in __init__
     FileInfo.__init__(self,fname)
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 12, in __init__
     self['name'] = filename
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 74, in __setitem__
     self.__get_props(value)
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 79, in __get_props
     self[tag] = fun(value)
TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable


I think I know where the problem is: what resides in tagdata is a static 
method 'wrapper', not the function itself, according to:

http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html

"Static method objects
     Static method objects provide a way of defeating the transformation 
of function objects to method objects described above. A static method 
object is a wrapper around any other object, usually a user-defined 
method object. When a static method object is retrieved from a class or 
a class instance, the object actually returned is the wrapped object, 
which is not subject to any further transformation. Static method 
objects are not themselves callable, although the objects they wrap 
usually are."

So, how do I get out the wrapped function out of static method without 
class call or instance call? (to be called in self[tag] = fun(value))

Yes, I do know that if I just get rid of @staticmethod, this works 
without a hitch.





From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Thu Feb 18 06:16:07 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:16:07 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002131822w15f9bdc4t2bc2958fea2272ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
	<fbe2e2101002131822w15f9bdc4t2bc2958fea2272ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100218111607.GC31441@debian-eeepc>

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 03:22:11AM +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
> /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info
> /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state

Had a quick look, but that path doesn't seem to exist, I'll look harder
on the weekend when I put the script together, because it has to be
somewhere.

Thanks,
Dan


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 06:20:25 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:25 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <87d402bzkh.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<mailman.2679.1266444858.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d0baa$0$13729$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<87d402bzkh.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4b7d226d$0$14717$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Ben Finney a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:
> 
>> perhaps a lighter introductory text could be helpful. So guys, if you
>> think a revised version of my post would be of interest, I'll take you
>> on words: provide the hosting, I'll provide the content !-)
> 
> Here, let me work my hosting magic: <URL:http://wiki.python.org/>.

Duh ! (me banging my head on the desktop)

Ok, I'll do my part of the job then !-)


From snakylove at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 06:29:47 2010
From: snakylove at googlemail.com (Snaky Love)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:29:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
References: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e893fe64-bf7a-4342-aeca-95e9cbd22e33@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

 - I checked some ways doing this, and starting over with a new thing
will give you a lot of headaches - all XSLT processors have one or
another problem - success depends very much on how you where using
wikipedia (plugins?) and you will have to expect a lot of poking
around with details and still not beeing happy with the solutions
available - there are many really crazy approaches out there to
generate pdf of mediawiki "markup" - many tried, not many succeeded,
most of them stop at "good enough for me"-level. So it might be a good
idea, not running too far away from what they are doing at
http://code.pediapress.com - you will spend much less time with
installing ubuntu in a virtualbox.

However there is one quite impressive tool, that does pdf conversion
via css and is good for getting the job done quick and not too dirty:
http://www.princexml.com/samples/ - scroll down to the mediawiki
examples - they offer a free license for non-commercial projects.

Good luck!

Have a nice day,
Snaky



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 18 06:32:51 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:32:51 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d2563$0$6581$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

mk, 18.02.2010 12:12:
> I'm trying to get print_internal_date become a static method AND to
> refer to it in a class attribute 'tagdata' dict.
> 
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>     'python file properties'
> 
>     @staticmethod
>     def print_internal_date(filename):
>         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
>         data = f.read(8)
>         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
>         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))
> 
>     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                 'size': os.path.getsize,
>                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
>             }

You can 'unroll' the decorator like this:

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
    def print_internal_date(filename):
        f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
        data = f.read(8)
        mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
        return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

    tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                'size': os.path.getsize,
                'internal_date': print_internal_date
            }

    print_internal_date = staticmethod(print_internal_date)

You can also define the function outside of the class and then assign it to
a class attribute, i.e.

def _print_internal_date(filename):
    f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
    data = f.read(8)
    mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
    return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
    print_internal_date = _print_internal_date

    tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                'size': os.path.getsize,
                'internal_date': _print_internal_date
            }

Quite likely, there are other ways to achieve what you want more cleanly,
but without more background on your intended use case, it's hard to give
better advice.

Stefan


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 06:54:44 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:54:44 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :

> I'm trying to get print_internal_date become a static method AND to 
> refer to it in a class attribute 'tagdata' dict.
> 
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>     'python file properties'
> 
>     @staticmethod
>     def print_internal_date(filename):
>         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
>         data = f.read(8)
>         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
>         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))
> 
>     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                 'size': os.path.getsize,
>                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
>             }
(snip)

>     def __get_props(self, value):
>         py_compile.compile(value)
>         for tag, fun in PYFileInfo.tagdata.items():
>             self[tag] = fun(value)
> 
> But:
> 
> c:/Python26/pythonw.exe -u  "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py"
> Traceback (most recent call last):
(snip)
>   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 79, in __get_props
>     self[tag] = fun(value)
> TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable
> 
> 
> I think I know where the problem is: what resides in tagdata is a static 
> method 'wrapper', not the function itself, according to:

Indeed. Sorry, I'm afraid I gave you bad advice wrt/ using a 
staticmethod here - I should know better :( (well, OTHO staticmethods 
are not something I use that often).

Anyway: here are a simplified version of your problem, a possible 
solution that _won't_ statisfy your other constraints, 2 ugly hacks that 
could work but that I don't really like, and what's possibly the "less 
worse" solution if you really need a staticmethod here.

###
class Foo1(object):
     """ simplified version of mk's code - test() fails """
     @staticmethod
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': bar}

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)


class Foo2(object):
     """ naive solution : kinda work, BUT will fail
         with the real code that has  plain functions
         in 'tagada'
     """
     @staticmethod
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': bar}

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)


class Foo3(object):
     """ working solution 1 : defer the wrapping
         of 'bar' as a staticmethod
     """
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': bar}

     bar = staticmethod(bar)

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)


class Foo4(object):
     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
     @staticmethod
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)


""" and as a "less worse" solution """

def foo5bar(baaz):
    print baaz

class Foo5(object):
     tagada = {'bar': foo5bar}

     bar = staticmethod(foo5bar)

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)


###

Another "solution" might be to write an alternate callable 
implementation of 'staticmethod' - which I'll leave as an exercise to 
the reader (...) - but that's possibly a bit overkill !-)


> http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html
> 
> So, how do I get out the wrapped function out of static method without 
> class call or instance call? (to be called in self[tag] = fun(value))

cf above. None of the solutions I could came with really statisfy me, 
but well, at least 3 of them might be "good enough" depending on the 
context. As far as I'm concerned, I'd first try the last one, but YMMV

> Yes, I do know that if I just get rid of @staticmethod, this works 
> without a hitch.

But then you can't use print_internal_date as a method !-)

HTH


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:15:43 2010
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:15:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2698.1266490188.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5b007f18-9041-465a-815f-8359f884265c@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:49?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Sreejith K wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 1:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano
> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> >> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>
> >>> On Feb 17, 10:48 pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Hi everyone,
>
> >>>> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
> >>>> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
> >>>> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
> >>>> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
> >>>> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
> >>>> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
> >>>> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
> >>>> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
> >>>> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
> >>>> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
> >>>> I can do this ?
>
> >>>> Application
> >>>> ========
> >>>> import sdk
> >>>> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
> >>>> ImportError)
>
> >>>> SDK
> >>>> ====
> >>>> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this
>
> >>> SDK
> >>> ===
> >>> import socket
>
> >>> App
> >>> ===
> >>> import SDK
> >>> import sys
> >>> socket = sys.modules['socket']
>
> >> I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
> >> layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
> >> prohibition in the SDK layer.
>
> >> In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>
> >> if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
> >> ? ? prohibit
> >> else
> >> ? ? allow
>
> >> I could be wrong of course.
>
> >> --
> >> Steven
>
> > @Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??
>
> import sys
> sys.modules['socket'] = None
>
> import socket
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ImportError ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Traceback (most recent call last)
>
> ImportError: No module named socket
>
> JM

@Jean. Thanks for the reply. But this is not what I wanted. The import
hook already restricts socket imports in applications. But I want them
in sdk package (alone) which is being imported in the application. I
don't want applications to directly use the socket module. That means
I want to make some exceptions for sdk in import hooks.


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:28:00 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:28:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with lambda
Message-ID: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am still fairly new to Python. Can someone explain to me why there
is a difference in f and g:

def make_power(n):
    return lambda x: x ** n

# Create a set of exponential functions
f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]

print f[0](3), f[1](3)
print g[0](3), g[1](3)


I expect to have "f" act same like "g".

Thanks


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 18 07:38:30 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:38:30 +0100
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
In-Reply-To: <5b007f18-9041-465a-815f-8359f884265c@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2698.1266490188.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<5b007f18-9041-465a-815f-8359f884265c@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D34C6.30809@sequans.com>

Sreejith K wrote:
> On Feb 18, 3:49 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> Sreejith K wrote:
>>     
>>> On Feb 18, 1:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano
>>> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> On Feb 17, 10:48 pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>             
>>>>>> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
>>>>>> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
>>>>>> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
>>>>>> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
>>>>>> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
>>>>>> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
>>>>>> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
>>>>>> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
>>>>>> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
>>>>>> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
>>>>>> I can do this ?
>>>>>>             
>>>>>> Application
>>>>>> ========
>>>>>> import sdk
>>>>>> import socket               # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
>>>>>> ImportError)
>>>>>>             
>>>>>> SDK
>>>>>> ====
>>>>>> import socket               # need to allow this
>>>>>>             
>>>>> SDK
>>>>> ===
>>>>> import socket
>>>>>           
>>>>> App
>>>>> ===
>>>>> import SDK
>>>>> import sys
>>>>> socket = sys.modules['socket']
>>>>>           
>>>> I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
>>>> layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
>>>> prohibition in the SDK layer.
>>>>         
>>>> In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>>>>         
>>>> if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
>>>>     prohibit
>>>> else
>>>>     allow
>>>>         
>>>> I could be wrong of course.
>>>>         
>>>> --
>>>> Steven
>>>>         
>>> @Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??
>>>       
>> import sys
>> sys.modules['socket'] = None
>>
>> import socket
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call last)
>>
>> ImportError: No module named socket
>>
>> JM
>>     
>
> @Jean. Thanks for the reply. But this is not what I wanted. The import
> hook already restricts socket imports in applications. But I want them
> in sdk package (alone) which is being imported in the application. I
> don't want applications to directly use the socket module. That means
> I want to make some exceptions for sdk in import hooks.
>   
give us your code (the hook import)

in your entry file:

import socket
import sys
sys.modules['sdkSocket'] = sys.modules['socket'] # allow to import 
socket ad sdkSocket
sys.modules['socket'] = None # forbid to import socket
del socket

within your SDK:
import sdkSocket # actually the socket module

print sdkSocket.__file__
'/usr/lib/python2.5/socket.pyc'

JM


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:39:08 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:39:08 +0000
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net> <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<7u4k52F6jsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <m2mxz6lnv7.fsf@googlemail.com>

Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> writes:

> Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> Descriptors to the rescue :)
>> 
>> def read_body_from(filename):
>>     print "** loading content **"
>>     return "<content of '%s'>" % filename
>> 
>> # This is a kind of class property
>> class TemplateFilename(object):
>>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>>         return "%s.tmpl" % cls.__name__
>> 
>> # And this is a kind of cached class property
>> class TemplateBody(object):
>>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>>         try:
>>             return cls._body
>>         except AttributeError:
>>             cls._body = read_body_from(cls.template_filename)
>>             return cls._body
>> 
>> class Foo(object):
>>     template_filename = TemplateFilename()
>>     template_body = TemplateBody()
>> 
>> class FooA(Foo):
>>    pass
>> 
>> class FooB(Foo):
>>    pass
>
> Very enlightening, thanks!
>
> By the way, I completely agree with the other posters in this
> thread that intricate solutions such as this are likely to be
> overkill, especially since at this point I have no idea if the
> inefficiency of reading those templates multiple times would at
> all matter (frankly, I'd doubt it). But it's certainly been
> educational to learn about these techniques.

Writing programs is a great way to keep learning :)

> One observation: if I implement the descriptor solution as given
> above, the code works perfectly, but running the code through
> pychecker now causes an error, because that again causes an
> attempt to read from the non-existant base class template file
> "Foo.tmpl"...

As someone said before, you could just provide a dummy Foo.tmpl file.

-- 
Arnaud


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:42:57 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:42:57 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hljcih$hvt$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> I think I know where the problem is: what resides in tagdata is a 
>> static method 'wrapper', not the function itself, according to:
> 
> Indeed. Sorry, I'm afraid I gave you bad advice wrt/ using a 
> staticmethod here - I should know better :( (well, OTHO staticmethods 
> are not something I use that often).

Do not worry the least bit! I'm testdriving on a closed circuit here for 
sake of becoming better 'driver', I'm not going to drive like this on 
the streets.

> class Foo2(object):
>     """ naive solution : kinda work, BUT will fail
>         with the real code that has  plain functions
>         in 'tagada'
>     """
>     @staticmethod
>     def bar(baaz):
>         print baaz
> 
>     tagada = {'bar': bar}
> 
>     def test(self, baaz):
>         self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)

Well I could always do:

if isinstance(self.tagada['bar'], staticmethod):
	self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)
else:
	self.tagada['bar'](baaz)

But 1. this apparently defeats the purpose of using print_internal_date 
on instance/class in 'normal' way, and 2. I probably shouldn't be doing 
that since using isinstance is apparently like playing with yourself: 
while technically legal, people look at you weirdly. :-)

> 
> class Foo3(object):
>     """ working solution 1 : defer the wrapping
>         of 'bar' as a staticmethod
>     """
>     def bar(baaz):
>         print baaz
> 
>     tagada = {'bar': bar}
> 
>     bar = staticmethod(bar)
> 
>     def test(self, baaz):
>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)

Neat! I like this one.

> 
> 
> class Foo4(object):
>     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
>     @staticmethod
>     def bar(baaz):
>         print baaz
> 
>     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}
> 
>     def test(self, baaz):
>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)

Huh? How does this one work? After all, while in Foo4 body, the Foo4 
does not exist yet? Does lambda defer evaluation to runtime (when it's 
executed) or smth?

> 
> 
> """ and as a "less worse" solution """
> 
> def foo5bar(baaz):
>    print baaz
> 
> class Foo5(object):
>     tagada = {'bar': foo5bar}
> 
>     bar = staticmethod(foo5bar)
> 
>     def test(self, baaz):
>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
> 

Yes. I probably should have stayed with this one in the first place. I 
feel bad for using up bandwidth and people's attention with such stuff...




From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Feb 18 07:45:58 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:45:58 +1000
Subject: Help with lambda
In-Reply-To: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002180445i3c95cc7dp9b5aafeb88fa51e@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking at your code and was thinking ... why writing code that is
difficult to understand?

To answer your question though, they're different because in case "f", your
lambda experssion is only evaluated once. That means the variable 'n' is
ever only created once, and replaced repeatedly. In the second case "g", the
function is only ever created once, and in effect, the lambda expression is
evaluated as a new expression every time the function is called. That's why
it may have been what you wanted.

Seriously though, you should use a generater instead. And if that doesn't
work for you, just make a function mate. Way easier to read, and you don't
have to have ugly calls like f[0](3).

>>> def powers(n):
...     for x in xrange(2,5):
...         yield x ** n
...
>>> for result in powers(3):
...     print result
...
8
27
64

Cheers,
Xav
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:47:23 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:47:23 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hljcqq$irr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
>> 'self' in print_internal_date signature
> 
> Indeed. Using it that way, the print_internal_date will not be wrapped
> in a method object.

Hold on! How does Python know what to wrap and what not to wrap, 
assuming of course programmer doesn't use @classmethod or @staticmethod? 
Bc self has no special significance, it's just a (strong) convention, 
Python can't know what's the first argument of a function supposed to 
be, self or regular argument, and therefore it has no way of 
differentiating between functions (defined in class body) designed to 
become methods and those that are not?

Where can I read on Python internals like this (aside from post of 
yours, that is)? Bc  frankly skimming http://docs.python.org/reference/ 
didn't give me impression that a lot on the subject is there (well 
there's some, I found smth akin to your explanation below, although 
yours is way more readable)?

Thanks for explanation below -- I'm going to ask some related questions.

> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
> beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
> when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
> 
> The first thing is that the def statement *always* yield a function
> object. Always. If you don't believe it, try the following snippet:
> 
> class Foo(object):
>     def bar(self):
>         return "baaz"
> 
> print Foo.__dict__.keys()
> print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])

Just one thing here:

 >>> Foo.bar
<unbound method Foo.bar>

Huh?! Why does it say 'unbound' method? Shouldn't that be bound method 
(bound to Foo, that is)?

> So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ?

 >>> type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
<type 'function'>
 >>> type(Foo.bar)
<type 'instancemethod'>

instancemethod - now that's something new.


> The
> answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.
> 
> To make a long story short, the descriptor protocol specify that, when,
> during an attribute lookup, a name resolves to a class attribute AND
> this attribute has a __get__ method, then this __get__ method is called
>  (with either the instance or None and the class itself as arguments)

Depending, I assume, on whether this is instance call | class method 
call, respectively?

Hmm why does the __get__ receive class as argument on top of instance | 
None? After all, when having an instance, the class can always be found 
by instance.__class__ ? Is this for sake of class methods?

Python is science, I gather: an answer to one question bears another 10 
questions.

> and whatever it returns becomes the result of the attribute lookup. This
> mechanism is what provides support for computed attributes.
> 
> Now the trick is that the function type do implement the descriptor
> protocol. So when a function is an attribute of a class object and you
> try to access it as an attribute of either the class itself or an
> instance of the class, it's __get__ method is called with the instance
> (or None) and the class. 

> Having access to itself (of course),

Quick question: how does a function access itself? Aside from rejected 
PEP (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3130/) I don't see the way of 
accessing itself outside globals() (and even then how would a function 
know its name -- well it shouldn't care about it really, as function 
object doesn't care how it's labelled, right?). Or does in "real Python" 
func's __get__ receive its own function (func) as an argument, like in 
your example implementation below?

> the
> instance (if there's one) and the class, it's easy for it to wrap all
> this into a method object. Which is itself a callable object, that when
> called mostly inject the instance as first object in the argument's list
> and returns the result of calling the wrapped function object.

Aha! So that's the mechanism that makes self magically appear in an 
argument list! I always wondered how it worked. !!THANKS!!


> My 2 cents...

Well, Bruno -- that was more like $200!

Regards,
mk



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:47:31 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:47:31 +0000
Subject: Help with lambda
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2iq9ulnh8.fsf@googlemail.com>

lallous <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> I am still fairly new to Python. Can someone explain to me why there
> is a difference in f and g:
>
> def make_power(n):
>     return lambda x: x ** n
>
> # Create a set of exponential functions
> f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> print f[0](3), f[1](3)
> print g[0](3), g[1](3)
>
>
> I expect to have "f" act same like "g".
>
> Thanks

It's a FAQ!  Except I don't think it's in the official Python FAQ, but
it ought to be.

The reason (very quickly) is that each time you call make_power() you
create a new name 'n' which is bound to a different value each time,
whereas in f:
       
    [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]

The 'n' is the same name for each of the lambda functions and so is
bound to the same value, which by the end of the loop is 4.  So each of
the lambdas in the list f is the same as:

    lambdsa x; x**4

after the end of the list comprehension.

The usual fix for this is to change f to:

f = [lambda x, n=n: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]

I'll let you think why this works.

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:52:02 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:52:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with lambda
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<m2iq9ulnh8.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <1a3903cd-b9f7-428b-a43d-47485e8620f6@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Yes it should be listed somewhere, now I get it. Thanks Arnaud.

--
Elias

On Feb 18, 1:47?pm, Arnaud Delobelle <arno... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Hello,
>
> > I am still fairly new to Python. Can someone explain to me why there
> > is a difference in f and g:
>
> > def make_power(n):
> > ? ? return lambda x: x ** n
>
> > # Create a set of exponential functions
> > f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> > g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> > print f[0](3), f[1](3)
> > print g[0](3), g[1](3)
>
> > I expect to have "f" act same like "g".
>
> > Thanks
>
> It's a FAQ! ?Except I don't think it's in the official Python FAQ, but
> it ought to be.
>
> The reason (very quickly) is that each time you call make_power() you
> create a new name 'n' which is bound to a different value each time,
> whereas in f:
>
> ? ? [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> The 'n' is the same name for each of the lambda functions and so is
> bound to the same value, which by the end of the loop is 4. ?So each of
> the lambdas in the list f is the same as:
>
> ? ? lambdsa x; x**4
>
> after the end of the list comprehension.
>
> The usual fix for this is to change f to:
>
> f = [lambda x, n=n: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> I'll let you think why this works.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Arnaud


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Feb 18 07:56:03 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:56:03 -0500
Subject: Help with lambda
In-Reply-To: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100218075603.f37aab5f.darcy@druid.net>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:28:00 -0800 (PST)
lallous <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> wrote:
> def make_power(n):
>     return lambda x: x ** n

Hint: type(make_power(2))

Did you expect that to return "int"?

> # Create a set of exponential functions
> f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]

The result of make_power(n) is a function that raises it's argument to
the power of n.  I don't know what you are trying to do.  Maybe this?

g = [make_power(n)(2) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
or
g = [make_power(2)(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 08:00:03 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:00:03 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
(snip)
>> class Foo2(object):
>>     """ naive solution : kinda work, BUT will fail
>>         with the real code that has  plain functions
>>         in 'tagada'
>>     """
>>     @staticmethod
>>     def bar(baaz):
>>         print baaz
>>
>>     tagada = {'bar': bar}
>>
>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>         self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)
> 
> Well I could always do:
> 
> if isinstance(self.tagada['bar'], staticmethod):
>     self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)
> else:
>     self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
> 
> But 1. this apparently defeats the purpose of using print_internal_date 
> on instance/class in 'normal' way, and 2. I probably shouldn't be doing 
> that since using isinstance is apparently like playing with yourself: 
> while technically legal, people look at you weirdly. :-)

As far as I'm concerned, this would be a valid use case for isinstance. 
But it breaks uniformity and requires quite a lot of mostly useless code.

>>
>> class Foo3(object):
>>     """ working solution 1 : defer the wrapping
>>         of 'bar' as a staticmethod
>>     """
>>     def bar(baaz):
>>         print baaz
>>
>>     tagada = {'bar': bar}
>>
>>     bar = staticmethod(bar)
>>
>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
> 
> Neat! I like this one.

Not me - with the wrapping so far away from the definition, it's too 
easy to miss part of the "process" when you come back to this code 6 
month later.

>>
>>
>> class Foo4(object):
>>     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
>>     @staticmethod
>>     def bar(baaz):
>>         print baaz
>>
>>     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}
>>
>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
> 
> Huh? How does this one work? After all, while in Foo4 body, the Foo4 
> does not exist yet? Does lambda defer evaluation to runtime (when it's 
> executed) or smth?

or smth, yes !-)

A lambda expression evals to an ordinary function - just like a def 
statement - so Foo4 is not resolved until Foo4.tagada['bar'] is actually 
called.

>> """ and as a "less worse" solution """
>>
>> def foo5bar(baaz):
>>    print baaz
>>
>> class Foo5(object):
>>     tagada = {'bar': foo5bar}
>>
>>     bar = staticmethod(foo5bar)
>>
>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
>>
> 
> Yes. I probably should have stayed with this one in the first place. I 
> feel bad for using up bandwidth and people's attention with such stuff...

Why so ? You learned something, I learned something, and quite a few 
other people will now have a chance to learn something. Sensible use of 
bandwith as far as I'm concerned. wrt/ people's attention, don't worry, 
it's up to the reader to pay attention or skip the whole topic !-)





From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:08:03 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:08:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with lambda
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2708.1266497732.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <62b3fe37-5f26-406b-a4e0-48bdb9a39b5c@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 1:56?pm, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:28:00 -0800 (PST)
>
> lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > def make_power(n):
> > ? ? return lambda x: x ** n
>
> Hint: type(make_power(2))
>
> Did you expect that to return "int"?
>

No, I expect to see a specialized function.

> > # Create a set of exponential functions
> > f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> > g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> The result of make_power(n) is a function that raises it's argument to
> the power of n. ?I don't know what you are trying to do. ?Maybe this?
>
> g = [make_power(n)(2) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> or
> g = [make_power(2)(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>


What I am trying to do is generate different functions.

If you're curious, I was playing with ctypes and wanted to see how it
handles C<->Python callbacks:

CB_T = WINFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int)
many_cb_t = CFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int, CB_T)
many_cb   = many_cb_t(addressof(c_void_p.in_dll(dll, "many_cb")))
#ANY_SIMPLER

def make_power(n):
    return lambda x: x ** n

cbs = [CB_T(make_power(n)) for n in xrange(0, 1000)]
cbs.append(None)

many_cb(3, *cbs)

And the C code in a shared lib:

int many_cb(int value, ...)
{
  va_list va;
  va = va_start(va, value);
  cb_t cb;
  int s = 0;
  while ( (cb = va_arg(va, cb_t)) != NULL)
  {
    printf("calling %p", cb);
    int r = cb(value);
    s += r;
    printf(", r=%d\n", r);
  }
  va_end(va);
  return s;
}

Speaking of that, anyone has an idea how to make simpler the line with
#ANY_SIMPLER?

I try: many_cb = CB_T.in_dll(dll, "many_cb") <- but that seems to work
with data items only.


From leo at lspace.org  Thu Feb 18 08:27:30 2010
From: leo at lspace.org (Leo Breebaart)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 13:27:30 GMT
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net> <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<7u4k52F6jsU1@mid.individual.net> <m2mxz6lnv7.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <7u4ti2Fv11U1@mid.individual.net>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> > One observation: if I implement the descriptor solution as
> > given above, the code works perfectly, but running the code
> > through pychecker now causes an error, because that again
> > causes an attempt to read from the non-existant base class
> > template file "Foo.tmpl"...

It's not just pychecker that doesn't like the descriptor
solution: pydoc now also crashes with the same IOError. :-)


> As someone said before, you could just provide a dummy Foo.tmpl
> file.

A pragmatic solution, but one that smells bad to me. All this
started because I didn't want my program to read files more than
once, but I also don't want it to read files it doesn't have to
read (and that don't even need to exist) in the first place!

I'll just go back to the original instance-based lazy evaluation
and caching solution now -- I never really had a big problem with
that.

My thanks again to all of you for helping me out with this.

-- 
Leo Breebaart  <leo at lspace.org>


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 18 08:30:35 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:30:35 -0500
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <hljcqq$irr$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hljcqq$irr$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hljff2$r4l$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
>>> 'self' in print_internal_date signature
>>
>> Indeed. Using it that way, the print_internal_date will not be wrapped
>> in a method object.
> 
> Hold on! How does Python know what to wrap and what not to wrap,
> assuming of course programmer doesn't use @classmethod or @staticmethod?
> Bc self has no special significance, it's just a (strong) convention,
> Python can't know what's the first argument of a function supposed to
> be, self or regular argument, and therefore it has no way of
> differentiating between functions (defined in class body) designed to
> become methods and those that are not?
> 
> Where can I read on Python internals like this (aside from post of
> yours, that is)? Bc  frankly skimming http://docs.python.org/reference/
> didn't give me impression that a lot on the subject is there (well
> there's some, I found smth akin to your explanation below, although
> yours is way more readable)?
> 
> Thanks for explanation below -- I'm going to ask some related questions.
> 
>> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
>> beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
>> when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
>>
>> The first thing is that the def statement *always* yield a function
>> object. Always. If you don't believe it, try the following snippet:
>>
>> class Foo(object):
>>     def bar(self):
>>         return "baaz"
>>
>> print Foo.__dict__.keys()
>> print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
> 
> Just one thing here:
> 
>>>> Foo.bar
> <unbound method Foo.bar>
> 
> Huh?! Why does it say 'unbound' method? Shouldn't that be bound method
> (bound to Foo, that is)?
> 
No. The "unbound method" means it's a callable class attribute. The
significance of "unbound" is that no specific instance is attached.

>> So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ?
> 
>>>> type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
> <type 'function'>
>>>> type(Foo.bar)
> <type 'instancemethod'>
> 
> instancemethod - now that's something new.
> 
Well "instancemethod" is just the type of the attribute. If you create a
Foo instance, its bar method also has type instancemethod, even though
it's a *bound* method:

>>> foo = Foo()
>>> foo
<__main__.Foo object at 0x7ff2a16c>
>>> foo.bar
<bound method Foo.bar of <__main__.Foo object at 0x7ff2a16c>>
>>> type(foo.bar)
<type 'instancemethod'>
>>>

Note that it's only when the method is looked up *from an instance of
the class* does the interpreter create the bound method. And remember
that this is behavior that's specific to Python 2.
> 
>> The
>> answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.
>>
>> To make a long story short, the descriptor protocol specify that, when,
>> during an attribute lookup, a name resolves to a class attribute AND
>> this attribute has a __get__ method, then this __get__ method is called
>>  (with either the instance or None and the class itself as arguments)
> 
> Depending, I assume, on whether this is instance call | class method
> call, respectively?
> 
Yes.

> Hmm why does the __get__ receive class as argument on top of instance |
> None? After all, when having an instance, the class can always be found
> by instance.__class__ ? Is this for sake of class methods?
> 
When Bruno wrote "... AND this attribute has a __get__ method ...", the
__get__method has to be defined on the attribute's class - the
interpreter won't even look at the instance when trying to resolve the
reference. But inheritance, of course, means that the same __get__
method may be used by several classes, and when there is no instance the
specific (sub)class in question must be identifiable. So you got that right.

> Python is science, I gather: an answer to one question bears another 10
> questions.
> 
Yes, but it isn't quite "turtles all the way down". Ultimately the
behavior we are discussing is hard-wired into the interpreter at the
__getattribute__ level.

>> and whatever it returns becomes the result of the attribute lookup. This
>> mechanism is what provides support for computed attributes.
>>
>> Now the trick is that the function type do implement the descriptor
>> protocol. So when a function is an attribute of a class object and you
>> try to access it as an attribute of either the class itself or an
>> instance of the class, it's __get__ method is called with the instance
>> (or None) and the class. 
> 
>> Having access to itself (of course),
> 
> Quick question: how does a function access itself? Aside from rejected
> PEP (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3130/) I don't see the way of
> accessing itself outside globals() (and even then how would a function
> know its name -- well it shouldn't care about it really, as function
> object doesn't care how it's labelled, right?). Or does in "real Python"
> func's __get__ receive its own function (func) as an argument, like in
> your example implementation below?
> 
The function is an object of type function, so the lookup triggers a
call to the __get__() method of the function's class, providing the
instance (that is the function that is being called) as the first argument.

>> the
>> instance (if there's one) and the class, it's easy for it to wrap all
>> this into a method object. Which is itself a callable object, that when
>> called mostly inject the instance as first object in the argument's list
>> and returns the result of calling the wrapped function object.
> 
> Aha! So that's the mechanism that makes self magically appear in an
> argument list! I always wondered how it worked. !!THANKS!!
> 
> 
>> My 2 cents...
> 
> Well, Bruno -- that was more like $200!
> 
I agree, this is stuff that's hard to understand, and Bruno's
explanations are most helpful.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 08:34:37 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:34:37 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2707.1266497406.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2707.1266497406.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d41e1$0$18857$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
>>> 'self' in print_internal_date signature
>>
>> Indeed. Using it that way, the print_internal_date will not be wrapped
>> in a method object.
> 
> Hold on! How does Python know what to wrap and what not to wrap, 
> assuming of course programmer doesn't use @classmethod or @staticmethod? 

answered below - read on, young padawan <g>

> Bc self has no special significance, it's just a (strong) convention, 
> Python can't know what's the first argument of a function supposed to 
> be, self or regular argument, and therefore it has no way of 
> differentiating between functions (defined in class body) designed to 
> become methods and those that are not?

Indeed.

> Where can I read on Python internals like this (aside from post of 
> yours, that is)? Bc  frankly skimming http://docs.python.org/reference/ 
> didn't give me impression that a lot on the subject is there (well 
> there's some, I found smth akin to your explanation below, although 
> yours is way more readable)?

Thanks <blush />

> Thanks for explanation below -- I'm going to ask some related questions.
> 
>> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
>> beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
>> when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
>>
>> The first thing is that the def statement *always* yield a function
>> object. Always. If you don't believe it, try the following snippet:
>>
>> class Foo(object):
>>     def bar(self):
>>         return "baaz"
>>
>> print Foo.__dict__.keys()
>> print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
> 
> Just one thing here:
> 
>  >>> Foo.bar
> <unbound method Foo.bar>
> 
> Huh?! Why does it say 'unbound' method? Shouldn't that be bound method 
> (bound to Foo, that is)?

Yes, but it's not bound to a Foo instance.

>> So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ?
> 
>  >>> type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
> <type 'function'>

Yeps. That's the function object created by the def statement. Just a 
plain old function - expect it's an attribute of class object "Foo".

>  >>> type(Foo.bar)
> <type 'instancemethod'>
> 
> instancemethod - now that's something new.

Don't let the "<unbound method Foo.bar>" fools you - it's just 
instancemethod.__repr__ that issues different wording according to 
whether the instancemethod instance is bound or not.

> 
>> The
>> answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.
>>
>> To make a long story short, the descriptor protocol specify that, when,
>> during an attribute lookup, a name resolves to a class attribute AND
>> this attribute has a __get__ method, then this __get__ method is called
>>  (with either the instance or None and the class itself as arguments)
> 
> Depending, I assume, on whether this is instance call | class method 
> call, respectively?

s/call/lookup/

If it's looked up on the class, there's no instance to pass to __get__.

> 
> Hmm why does the __get__ receive class as argument on top of instance | 
> None? After all, when having an instance, the class can always be found 
> by instance.__class__ ? Is this for sake of class methods?

Having access to the class is handy when you don't have the instance. 
The point is mostly to let the descriptor know how it has been looked up 
and take appropriate decisions based on this - for a definition of 
"appropriote" that depends on what the descriptor is intended for . 
Remember that this mechanism provides the generic support for all kind 
of computed attributes - methods, properties, and whatever you can write 
yourself.

> Python is science, I gather: an answer to one question bears another 10 
> questions.

That's the case with most technical domains - until you solved enough of 
the puzzle to start and see the big picture.

>> and whatever it returns becomes the result of the attribute lookup. This
>> mechanism is what provides support for computed attributes.
>>
>> Now the trick is that the function type do implement the descriptor
>> protocol. So when a function is an attribute of a class object and you
>> try to access it as an attribute of either the class itself or an
>> instance of the class, it's __get__ method is called with the instance
>> (or None) and the class. 
> 
>> Having access to itself (of course),
> 
> Quick question: how does a function access itself?

In that case, it's quite simple: function.__get__ is a method of the 
function type, so it's called with 'self' as first argument !-)

> Aside from rejected 
> PEP (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3130/) I don't see the way of 
> accessing itself outside globals()

You're confusing the function instance itself with the content of the 
def statement's block. The code within the def statement's block has no 
access to the function instance that will be built from it, but other 
methods of the function instance are, well, ordinary methods.

> (and even then how would a function 
> know its name -- well it shouldn't care about it really, as function 
> object doesn't care how it's labelled, right?). Or does in "real Python" 
> func's __get__ receive its own function (func)

it receives itself, yes. Ordinary method call, nothing magical here - 
well, almost...!-).

> as an argument, like in 
> your example implementation below?

Exactly.

>> the
>> instance (if there's one) and the class, it's easy for it to wrap all
>> this into a method object. Which is itself a callable object, that when
>> called mostly inject the instance as first object in the argument's list
>> and returns the result of calling the wrapped function object.
> 
> Aha! So that's the mechanism that makes self magically appear in an 
> argument list! I always wondered how it worked. 

Now you know. As far as I'm concerned, I do find this whole mechanism to 
be a thing of beauty - instead of special-casing methods, you just use 
plain functions and the much more generic descriptor protocol to achieve 
the same result - with much more flexibility.

> !!THANKS!!
> 
>> My 2 cents...
> 
> Well, Bruno -- that was more like $200!

Ok, make it 3 cents then !-)

More seriously, all this is explained in Raymond Hettinger's excellent 
'descriptor howto' article, that is linked from the official doc - and 
that's how I learned all this.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Feb 18 08:37:59 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:37:59 -0500
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
In-Reply-To: <d457056b-6b9c-4a30-8532-850d7f2ea074@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
	<mailman.2692.1266465072.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<d457056b-6b9c-4a30-8532-850d7f2ea074@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <110AD9FE-D49F-4BD5-9643-7F3FA7C7C4DD@semanchuk.com>


On Feb 18, 2010, at 12:20 AM, alex23 wrote:

> MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> Python 3.0 had a relatively short run before it was superseded by  
>> Python
>> 3.1 due to certain issues, so, IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it unless
>> someone especially requests/requires it.
>
> And even then, I'd just tell them I accept patches :)

Excellent idea. =)

Thanks to all who replied.

Cheers
Philip


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Thu Feb 18 08:39:21 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:39:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<0f783ced-0414-4b44-acf1-79f8d288f41c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.38.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <da5bc540-4601-4a51-b2a7-69d81082c679@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 7:38?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:13:23 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > And once you realize that every program is really a compiler, then you
> > have truly mastered the Zen of Programming in Any Programming Language
> > That Will Ever Exist.
>
> In the same way that every tool is really a screwdriver.
>
> --
> Steven

The way I learned this was:
- Use the right tool for the right job.
- Every tool is a hammer.

-- Paul


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:40:36 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:40:36 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hljfuk$tbk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

>>>
>>>
>>> class Foo4(object):
>>>     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
>>>     @staticmethod
>>>     def bar(baaz):
>>>         print baaz
>>>
>>>     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}
>>>
>>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
>>
>> Huh? How does this one work? After all, while in Foo4 body, the Foo4 
>> does not exist yet? Does lambda defer evaluation to runtime (when it's 
>> executed) or smth?
> 
> or smth, yes !-)
> 
> A lambda expression evals to an ordinary function - just like a def 
> statement - so Foo4 is not resolved until Foo4.tagada['bar'] is actually 
> called.

This works, but... Foo4.bar in tagada is a staticmethod. So what's 
needed is Foo4.bar.__get__(x)  (not that I'm that smart, I just got 
'staticmethod is not callable' exception).

It appears I have to use __get__ anyway while referring to bar in Foo4 
methods:

def testrefer(self, val):
     self.bar.__get__(val)
     Foo4.bar.__get__(val)

At least I have to do this in my own code:

     def testit(self, fname):
         self.print_internal_date.__get__(fname + 'c')
         PYFileInfo.print_internal_date.__get__(fname + 'c')


Or else I get "TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable".







From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:56:44 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:56:44 -0400
Subject: Timer
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002171037s49568919te9840a9dabd37f29@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002171037s49568919te9840a9dabd37f29@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002180556g7987b6a7rb6282ae3e21ec061@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Obviously, the removeCSS isn't going to work in that last line. What can I
>> put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
>>
>
> Even though you're generating this with python, it doesn't have anything to
> do with Python. You'll have to use javascript and DHTML and enable/disable
> classes. How to do that is beyond the scope of this group, and might depend
> on the browser. I'd go look into jQuery or some such which will encapsulate
> such dynamic things better.
>

OK. Thanks.
beno
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From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 09:15:20 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 1:23?am, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> > On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> >> In message
> >> <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517... at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> >> > I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
> >> > nice feature for Python.
>
> >> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming
> >> > language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> >> Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?
>
> >> What more do you need?
>
> > I don't know, but I tend to find the name of the function I called to
> > be useful. It's much more memorable than line numbers, particularly
> > when line numbers keep changing.
>
> > I doubt it's just me, though.
>
> Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors:
>
> In any language it isn't much use if you get a bug report from a shipped
> program that says there was an error on line 793 but no report of
> exactly which version of the shipped code was being run.
>
> Microsoft love telling you the line number: if IE gets a Javascript
> error it reports line number but not filename, so you have to guess
> which of the HTML page or one of many included files actually had the
> error. Plus the line number that is reported is often slightly off.
>
> Javascript in particular is often sent to the browser compressed then
> uncompressed and eval'd. That makes line numbers completely useless for
> tracking down bugs as you'll always get the line number of the eval.
> Also the way functions are defined in Javascript means you'll often have
> almost every function listed in a backtrace as 'Anonymous'.

If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a
quadruple strawman.

Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
idea, even with named functions.

Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
running is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Of course, using anonymous functions in no way prevents you from
capturing a version number in a traceback.  And in most modern source
control systems, it is fairly easy to revert to an old version of that
code.

    def factory():
        return lambda: 15 / 0

    def bar(method):
        method()

    def foo(method):
        bar(method)

    def baz(method):
        foo(method)

    try:
        baz(factory())
    except:
        print 'problem with version 1.234a'
        raise

    problem with version 1.234a
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "foo.py", line 14, in <module>
        baz(factory())
      File "foo.py", line 11, in baz
        foo(method)
      File "foo.py", line 8, in foo
        bar(method)
      File "foo.py", line 5, in bar
        method()
      File "foo.py", line 2, in <lambda>
        return lambda: 15 / 0
    ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 09:23:27 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:23:27 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2711.1266500396.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2711.1266500396.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d4d52$0$9152$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> class Foo4(object):
>>>>     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
>>>>     @staticmethod
>>>>     def bar(baaz):
>>>>         print baaz
>>>>
>>>>     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}
>>>>
>>>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
>>>
>>> Huh? How does this one work? After all, while in Foo4 body, the Foo4 
>>> does not exist yet? Does lambda defer evaluation to runtime (when 
>>> it's executed) or smth?
>>
>> or smth, yes !-)
>>
>> A lambda expression evals to an ordinary function - just like a def 
>> statement - so Foo4 is not resolved until Foo4.tagada['bar'] is 
>> actually called.
> 
> This works, but... Foo4.bar in tagada is a staticmethod. So what's 
> needed is Foo4.bar.__get__(x)  (not that I'm that smart, I just got 
> 'staticmethod is not callable' exception).

Huh ???

class Foo4(object):

     @staticmethod
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)

 >>> f = Foo4()
 >>> f.test(42)
42
 >>> Foo4.bar(42)
42
 >>>

WorksForMe(tm).



> It appears I have to use __get__ anyway while referring to bar in Foo4 
> methods:
 >
> def testrefer(self, val):
>     self.bar.__get__(val)
>     Foo4.bar.__get__(val)
> 
> At least I have to do this in my own code:
> 
>     def testit(self, fname):
>         self.print_internal_date.__get__(fname + 'c')
>         PYFileInfo.print_internal_date.__get__(fname + 'c')
> 
> 
> Or else I get "TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable".

I think you broke something somewhere. Assuming you're using Python 2.x 
(>= 2.3 IIRC), my above code works.


From commander_coder at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 18 09:37:27 2010
From: commander_coder at hotmail.com (commander_coder)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:37:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
Message-ID: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I have a routine that sends an email (this is how a Django view
notifies me that an event has happened).  I want to unit test that
routine.  So I gave each mail a unique subject line and I want to use
python's mailbox package to look for that subject.  But sometimes the
mail gets delivered and sometimes it does not (I use sendmail to send
it but I believe that it is always sent since I can see an entry in
the mail log).

I thought that the mail delivery system was occasionally hitting my
mailbox lock, and that I needed to first sleep for a while.  So I
wrote a test that sleeps, then grabs the mailbox and looks through it,
and if the mail is not there then it sleeps again, etc., for up to ten
tries.  It is below.

However, I find that if the mail is not delivered on the first try
then it is never delivered, no matter how long I wait.  So I think I
am doing mailbox wrong but I don't see how.

The real puzzler for me is that the test reliably fails every third
time.  For instance, if I try it six times then it succeeds the first,
second, fourth, and fifth times.  I have to say that I cannot
understand this at all but it certainly makes the unit test useless.

I'm using Python 2.6 on an Ubuntu system.  If anyone could give me a
pointer to why the mail is not delivered, I sure could use it.

Thanks,
Jim

...................................................................

class sendEmail_test(unittest.TestCase):
    """Test sendEmail()
    """
    config = ConfigParser.ConfigParser()
    config.read(CONFIG_FN)
    mailbox_fn=config.get('testing','mailbox')

    def look_in_mailbox(self,uniquifier='123456789'):
        """If the mailbox has a message whose subject line contains
the
        given uniquifier then it returns that message and deletes it.
        Otherwise, returns None.
        """
        sleep_time=10.0  # wait for message to be delivered?
        message_found=None
        i=0
        while i<10 and not(message_found):
            time.sleep(sleep_time)
            m=mailbox.mbox(self.mailbox_fn)
            try:
                m.lock()
            except Exception, err:
                print "trouble locking the mailbox: "+str(err)
            try:
                for key,message in m.items():
                    subject=message['Subject'] or ''
                    print "subject is ",subject
                    if subject.find(uniquifier)>-1:
                        print "+++found the message+++ i=",str(i)
                        message_found=message
                        m.remove(key)
                        break
                m.flush()
            except Exception, err:
                print "trouble reading from the mailbox: "+str(err)
                m.unlock()
            try:
                m.unlock()
            except Exception, err:
                print "trouble unlocking the mailbox: "+str(err)
            try:
                m.close()
            except Exception, err:
                print "trouble closing the mailbox: "+str(err)
            del m
            i+=1
        return message_found

    def test_mailbox(self):
        random.seed()
        uniquifier=str(int(random.getrandbits(20)))
        print "uniquifier is ",uniquifier  # looks different every
time to me
        rc=az_view.sendEmail(uniquifier=uniquifier)
        if rc:
            self.fail('rc is not None: '+str(rc))
        found=self.look_in_mailbox(uniquifier)
        if not(found):
            self.fail('message not found')
        print "done"


From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Thu Feb 18 09:52:29 2010
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:52:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9fc69505-3224-4aa9-9357-2abb0af4abd2@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>



Wes James wrote:
> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"
>
> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []
>
> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
>
> a="['a','b']"
>
> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
>
> returns
>
> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
>
> when I want it to return ['a','b'].
>
> How can I do this?
>
> thx,
>
> -wes


I am surprised nobody gave you the simple answer yet that may even
work for your situation:

b=a[2:-2].split("','")


From roy at panix.com  Thu Feb 18 09:55:31 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:55:31 -0500
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-1BE3FC.09553018022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article 
<a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd at g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
 commander_coder <commander_coder at hotmail.com> wrote:

> The real puzzler for me is that the test reliably fails every third
> time.  For instance, if I try it six times then it succeeds the first,
> second, fourth, and fifth times.  I have to say that I cannot
> understand this at all but it certainly makes the unit test useless.

Just a wild guess here, but maybe there's some DNS server which 
round-robins three address records for some hostname you're using, one of 
which is bogus.

I've seen that before, and this smells like the right symptoms.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 18 10:18:57 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:18:57 -0600
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>

Wes James wrote:
> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"
> 
> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []
> 
> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
> 
> a="['a','b']"
> 
> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
> 
> returns
> 
> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
> 
> when I want it to return ['a','b'].

Just to add to the list of solutions I've seen, letting the 
built-in csv module do the heavy lifting:

   >>> s = "['a','b']"
   >>> import csv
   >>> no_brackets = s[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
   >>> c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
   >>> c.next()
   ['a', 'b']

This also gives you a bit of control regarding how escaping is 
done, and other knobs & dials to twiddle if you need. 
Additionally, if you have more than one string to process coming 
from an iterable source (such as a file), you can just pass that 
iterator to csv.reader() instead of concocting a one-element list.

-tkc




From commander_coder at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:25:20 2010
From: commander_coder at hotmail.com (commander_coder)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-1BE3FC.09553018022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <2f2546c5-f5be-4f1a-b70f-f8afd973ea65@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:55 am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> Just a wild guess here, but maybe there's some DNS server which
> round-robins three address records for some hostname you're using, one of
> which is bogus.
>
> I've seen that before, and this smells like the right symptoms.

Everything happens on my laptop, localhost, where I'm developing.

I'm sorry; I wasn't sure how much information was too much (or too
little) but I should have said that.

Thank you.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 10:27:16 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:27:16 +0100
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
In-Reply-To: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7d5c47$0$9135$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

commander_coder a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I have a routine that sends an email (this is how a Django view
> notifies me that an event has happened).  I want to unit test that
> routine.  

http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/email/#e-mail-backends

Or if you're stuck with 1.x < 1.2a, you could just mock the send_mail 
function to test that your app does send the appropriate mail - which is 
what you really want to know.

My 2 cents...


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:30:29 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:30:29 -0500
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
In-Reply-To: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002180730l552d1edch5e49b94ab59c9605@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:09 AM, lallous <lallous at lgwm.org> wrote:
> Hello
>
> Is there is any Python library that allow such things:
>
> Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
> can develop the equation for example.
> Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
> ( rest of expression ).
> There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
> expression can be evaluated.
> If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
> preserved.
>
> Does such a thing exist?
>
> Thanks,
> Elias
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

>From sage:

>>> x = var('x')
>>> g = x**2 + x
>>> g(x=5)
30
>>> g.factor
... (x + 1)*x

Geremy Condra


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:36:29 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:36:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
Message-ID: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I was reading on SOA or Service Oriented Architecture for last few
days and got some questions. As this is a room for the expert computer
scientists, if you can help me solve my queries.

As per I read and felt SOA is an architecture, which relies on few
basic principles as,
the system must be modular, the modules must be distributive, module
interfaces must be clearly defined and documented, module that
implements a service can be swapped out for another module that offers
the same service and interface, service provider modules must be
shareable.
SOA is an architecture which is now a days governed like XML by W3C.
The latest version is SOAP 1.2.
SOA is implemented mainly in a client/server environment, where
applications have the use of service, thus we can say it is a service-
oriented architecture.
It is a step towards cloud computing with its sister WSDL and BPM.

If both client/server are following the SOA then they can communicate
and exchange information without worrying for platform.

SOAP is a software implementation of Python,.NET,J2EE based on this
principle.
SOAPPy is a Python implementation.

My questions are:
(i)	Am I understanding correctly?
(ii)	Does SOAP has any standard architecture like UML other than the
W3C one?
(iii)	Can I write short programs to check the SOAP using my personal
computer as client as well as Server?
(iv)	Is SOAPpy fine?
(v)	What is the difference among SOAP, WSDL and BPM.
(vi)	As SOAP is for communication with a server if I pick a URL and
start to communicate with Google/Yahoo would they allow?
(vii)	Can I design a web based robot/crawler with SOAP?

Wishing you a Happy Day Ahead,
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.



From sccolbert at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:44:00 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:44:00 -0500
Subject: How to use AWS/PAA nowadays? PyAWS / pyamazon outdated?
In-Reply-To: <555ef5e9-dc90-494d-affc-a78389f6922f@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <555ef5e9-dc90-494d-affc-a78389f6922f@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002180744v6faeec8dhd3110d03ab1c4a5a@mail.gmail.com>

This one works for the product API.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-amazon-product-api/0.2.1

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 5:09 AM, Snaky Love <snakylove at googlemail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> is anybody aware of any updated and / or maintained library for
> accessing AWS/PAA with Python? I found the dusty pyamazon and a
> derivate of it, pyaws, but both of them do not seem to support request
> signatures which must be used by August 15, 2009 to use the Amazon
> Services, and generally seem to be a little bit outdated...
>
> Is there a better way doing signed requests to AWS/PAA nowadays? How
> are you doing it?
>
> I found a good PHP Library here: http://getcloudfusion.com/docs - but
> I would like to program stuff with python - is there anything pythonic
> that is close to that?
>
> Thank you very much for your attention,
> have a nice day,
> Snaky
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:44:02 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:44:02 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <4b7d4d52$0$9152$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2711.1266500396.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7d4d52$0$9152$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hljn62$p4o$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

> I think you broke something somewhere. Assuming you're using Python 2.x 
> (>= 2.3 IIRC), my above code works.


ARGH! Forgot the "delayed staticmethod" line -- in effect I called 
staticmethod twice:

     @staticmethod
     def print_internal_date(filename):
         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
         data = f.read(8)
         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': lambda x: 
PYFileInfo.print_internal_date.__get__(x)
             }

     # HERE I BROKE IT
     print_internal_date = staticmethod(print_internal_date)

     def __init__(self, fname=None):
         FileInfo.__init__(self,fname)

     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
         FileInfo.__setitem__(self, key, value)
         if key == 'name' and value:
             self.__get_props(value)

     def testit(self, fname):
         self.print_internal_date(fname+'c')
         PYFileInfo.print_internal_date.__get__(fname+'c')


You're right. It works.



From misceverything at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:46:55 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:46:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
Message-ID: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>

I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
example, via HTTP/HTTPS).   Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.).  What would
be the best way to go about doing this?


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 18 10:50:29 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 15:50:29 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a
> quadruple strawman.
> 
> Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.

I doubt very much whether I have ever shipped any bug-free code but
even if it was fit for purpose when shipped it is quite possible that the 
software will interact badly with other software that did not exist at the 
time of shipping.

> 
> Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.

In principle I agree, but where Javascript is concerned compressing the 
downloaded files is generally a pretty good idea and practicality beats 
purity.

> 
> Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
> idea, even with named functions.

I think that's their decision, not mine.

> 
> Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
> running is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> 
I agree, but getting a complete coherent description out of a customer is 
not always an easy task. (I'm reading the word 'customer' here to include 
the case where there is no monetary relationship between the software 
author and the entity using it, but even when there is I think this still 
true.)


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From commander_coder at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:59:14 2010
From: commander_coder at hotmail.com (commander_coder)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:59:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7d5c47$0$9135$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <2163d143-e48c-4b07-b430-2ff9eedddc31@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 10:27 am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:

> you could just mock the send_mail
> function to test that your app does send the appropriate mail - which is
> what you really want to know.

That's essentially what I think I am doing.

I need to send a relatively complex email, multipart, with both a
plain text and html versions of a message, and some attachments.  I am
worried that the email would fail to get out for some reason (say,
attaching the html message fails), so I want to test it.  I started
out with a simple email, thinking to get unit tests working and then
as I add stuff to the email I'd run the tests to see if it broke
anything.

I could mock the send_mail function by having it print to the screen
"mail sent" or I could have a unit test that looked for the mail.  I
did the first, and it worked fine.  I thought to do the second,
starting with a unit test checking simply that the message got to the
mailbox.  But I am unable to check that, as described in the original
message.

Jim


From commander_coder at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:11:29 2010
From: commander_coder at hotmail.com (commander_coder)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:11:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7d5c47$0$9135$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <019bb3f3-a1ec-4650-8977-cc9f12ccca53@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

Bruno,  I talked to someone who explained to me how what you said
gives a way around my difficulty.  Please ignore the other reply.
I'll do what you said.  Thank you; I appreciate your help.

Jim


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 18 11:12:25 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:12:25 +0100
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7d66e9$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

joy99, 18.02.2010 16:36:
> SOA is an architecture which is now a days governed like XML by W3C.
> The latest version is SOAP 1.2.

SOA has nothing to do with SOAP. SOAP is a (rather bloated) protocol for
remote procedure calls. SOA is a system architecture, be it distributed or not.

Stefan


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 11:15:46 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:50?am, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a
> > quadruple strawman.
>
> > Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.
>
> I doubt very much whether I have ever shipped any bug-free code but
> even if it was fit for purpose when shipped it is quite possible that the
> software will interact badly with other software that did not exist at the
> time of shipping.
>
>
>
> > Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.
>
> In principle I agree, but where Javascript is concerned compressing the
> downloaded files is generally a pretty good idea and practicality beats
> purity.
>
>
>
> > Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
> > idea, even with named functions.
>
> I think that's their decision, not mine.
>
>
>
> > Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
> > running is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> mpr
> I agree, but getting a complete coherent description out of a customer is
> not always an easy task. (I'm reading the word 'customer' here to include
> the case where there is no monetary relationship between the software
> author and the entity using it, but even when there is I think this still
> true.)
>

Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's unforgivable to occasionally
ship software with bugs.  It happens.

Compressing Javascript is sometimes necessary, but I believe that
often mangles named functions too.

To the the extent that your customer is running old software and
cannot always coherently describe tracebacks over a telephone, that
problem can be solved in the software itself, assuming an Internet
connection.  The software can capture the traceback and report back to
a server with the version number.

So, much of the argument against anonymous functions presented so far
is really orthogonal to whether functions are named or not.

Circling back to the original topic, Ruby blocks, I think there is a
misconception about how blocks are often used in Ruby.  Usually Ruby
blocks are inlined into a function and execute within that function.
Example:

    def print_numbers()
        [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
            [n * n, n * n * n]
        }.reject { |square, cube|
            square == 25 || cube == 64
        }.map { |square, cube|
            cube
        }.each { |n|
            puts n
            raise 'problem here'
        }
    end

    print_numbers()

The bug that I inserted into the "each" block gets reported in the
traceback:

foo.rb:10:in `print_numbers': problem here (RuntimeError)
	from foo.rb:2:in `each'
	from foo.rb:2:in `print_numbers'
	from foo.rb:14

(I do prefer Python tracebacks BTW, but that is again orthogonal to
blocks vs. named functions.)

The blocks of code in the above Ruby code are somewhat analogous to
blocks of code in Python that happen within certain control
structures, such as "if," "while," "with," etc.  The extra
expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can act on those
blocks with your own method.  Of course, there is always a tradeoff
between expressiveness and simplicity.  I know the person who gave the
talk about Ruby vs. Python, and trust me, nine times out of ten, he
prefers Python's simplicity to Ruby's expressiveness.  But he likes
blocks.

I'm in the same boat.  I use Python a lot, Ruby less so, but when I'm
in Ruby-land, I actually enjoy the expressiveness of blocks.  They're
not particularly dangerous, and they allow you to express certain
sequential operations tersely and sequentially.  The contrived code
below maps numbers to squares and cubes, then rejects a couple tuples,
then maps back to cubes, then prints each of the cubes.

    def print_numbers()
        [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
            [n * n, n * n * n]
        }.reject { |square, cube|
            square == 25 || cube == 64
        }.map { |square, cube|
            cube
        }.each { |n|
            puts n
        }
    end

IMHO there is no reason that I should have to name the content of each
of those four blocks of code, nor should I have to introduce the
"lambda" keyword.

I don't have a less contrived example handy, but the techniques above
apply often when you are filtering and massaging data.



From anfedorov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:19:02 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:19:02 -0500
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
Message-ID: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>

It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -, <,
==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
transitive, and anti-commutative.

Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
mathematical meanings?

- Andrey
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From tim.arnold at sas.com  Thu Feb 18 11:20:44 2010
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:20:44 -0500
Subject: best way to create a dict from string
Message-ID: <hljpd1$78g$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>

Hi,
I've got some text to parse that looks like this

text = ''' blah blah blah
\Template[Name=RAD,LMRB=False,LMRG=True]{tables}
ho dee ho
'''
I want to extract the bit between the brackets and create a dictionary. 
Here's what I'm doing now:

def options(text):
    d = dict()
    options = text[text.find('[')+1:text.find(']')]
    for k,v in [val.split('=') for val in options.split(',')]:
        d[k] = v
    return d

if __name__ == '__main__':
    for line in text.split('\n'):
        if line.startswith('\\Template'):
            print options(line)


is that the best way or maybe there's something simpler?  The options will 
always be key=value format, comma separated.
thanks,
--TIm




From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:28:01 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:28:01 -0800
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -, <,
> ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
> that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
> transitive, and anti-commutative.
>
> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
> mathematical meanings?
>

It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere, nor
assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the operators
doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not enforce anything for
these methods. Consider:

>>> class Test(object):
...     def __init__(self, v):
...             self.v = v
...     def __add__(self, other):
...             self.v = self.v + other
...             return "Ow!"
...
>>> t = Test(5)
>>> t + 2
'Ow!'
>>> t.v
7

It not only alters an operand, but its not even returning a meaningful
result. This can be abused, but is also useful for certain uses.

--S
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From anfedorov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:32:17 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:32:17 -0500
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7659cab31002180832w462287f8q9f7005180e770e91@mail.gmail.com>

>
> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere, nor
> assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the operators
> doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not enforce anything for
> these methods.


Right, so neither is anything in PEP-8, but it's still considered "good
practice". I'm running across examples like you gave (__sub__ having a
side-effect on the left-hand operand) in some code, and am trying to find
concrete justification for avoiding it.

- Andrey

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -,
>> <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
>> that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
>> transitive, and anti-commutative.
>>
>> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
>> mathematical meanings?
>>
>
> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere, nor
> assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the operators
> doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not enforce anything for
> these methods. Consider:
>
> >>> class Test(object):
> ...     def __init__(self, v):
> ...             self.v = v
> ...     def __add__(self, other):
> ...             self.v = self.v + other
> ...             return "Ow!"
> ...
> >>> t = Test(5)
> >>> t + 2
> 'Ow!'
> >>> t.v
> 7
>
> It not only alters an operand, but its not even returning a meaningful
> result. This can be abused, but is also useful for certain uses.
>
> --S
>
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Feb 18 11:37:52 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:37:52 -0500
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002180837y1dbab4e7xbb1c231f310c6fb1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -, <,
> ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
> that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
> transitive, and anti-commutative.
> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
> mathematical meanings?
> - Andrey

There are no assumptions about anything. You can do whatever you want
when you implement the functions yourself. For the numeric types, they
follow the intuitive meanings but that's not necessary for user
defined types. Of course, your users will get very confused if a == b
but b != a. Or if a == b and a != b at the same time.


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From chyavana at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:38:10 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:38:10 +0800
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
In-Reply-To: <m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D6CF2.7010907@gmail.com>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Here is a very simple way to improve what you do, which won't require
> you to change the way you work or to learn a new paradigm:
> 
> Instead of testing your functions interactively, put your testing code
> in a file, e.g. 'program_tests.py'.  Your can then type
> 
>     python program_tests.py
> 
> at the shell interactive prompt.  To perform the tests again, just
> re-execute that file.  If your tests are divided into
> different units, you can put these in functions:
> 
>     def test_frobz():
>         #testing code for frobzation of klops
> 
>     def test_frizz():
>         #testing code for frizzment of frobzied klops
> 
>     # etc..
> 
> So if you want to keep doing interactive tests, you can import
> program_tests and call whichever testing functions you want.  You may
> even have arguments to those functions to test them with different
> parameters.
> 
> I know some people will point at more 'pro' ways of testing but this has
> the merit of being very straightforward.  Then when you move on to more
> sophisticated techniques, I think you will understand better the
> motivations behind them.

It took me some time to cotton on to exactly what you were saying, but 
once I grasped it and tried it out, I found it very effective and 
time-saving.

Thank you very much Arnaud.

--
Chandra


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:39:53 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:39:53 -0600
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hljqgo$6ai$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 10:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov wrote:
> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -,
> <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands.
> Also, that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should
> be transitive, and anti-commutative.
>
> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
> mathematical meanings?

Some of it is covered in the reference manual. E.g.

   http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__lt__

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From simon at brunningonline.net  Thu Feb 18 11:55:19 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:55:19 +0000
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
In-Reply-To: <m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002180855t359a7848xd9b85e724910e917@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/17 Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com>:
> I know some people will point at more 'pro' ways of testing but this has
> the merit of being very straightforward. ?Then when you move on to more
> sophisticated techniques, I think you will understand better the
> motivations behind them.

Oh, I don't know. I like to think I'm fairly "pro" when it comes to
TDD, and this is exactly what I do - a unit test module run from the
shell.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 18 11:58:54 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:58:54 +0100
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002180832w462287f8q9f7005180e770e91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<7659cab31002180832w462287f8q9f7005180e770e91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D71CE.6060904@sequans.com>

Andrey Fedorov wrote:
>
>     It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down
>     anywhere, nor assumed by the language, and the mathematical
>     meaning of the operators doesn't matter to Python. Python
>     purposefully does not enforce anything for these methods.
>
>
> Right, so neither is anything in PEP-8, but it's still considered 
> "good practice". I'm running across examples like you gave (__sub__ 
> having a side-effect on the left-hand operand) in some code, and am 
> trying to find concrete justification for avoiding it.
>
> - Andrey

This is all about communication. Python allows you to call a cat a dog. 
You'll confuse everyone if you do so, but you can do it.
If your '-' operator is doing something else than returning the sub 
result, it's your call, but do not expect people to get it easily. You'd 
better be good at writting the documentation :-)

JM



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 12:28:44 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:28:44 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
Message-ID: <hljtab$gru$1@ger.gmane.org>


Sorry to bother everyone again, but I have this problem bugging me:

#!/usr/bin/python -i

class Foo(object):

     def nostat(self,val):
         print val

     nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__

     @staticmethod
     def nostatget(*args, **kwargs):
         print 'args:', args, 'kwargs:', kwargs
         nostat.__orig_get__(*args, **kwargs)

     nostat.__get__ = nostatget
     setattr(nostat,'__get__',nostatget)


f = Foo()

f.nostat('a')

print f.nostat.__get__ is f.nostat.__orig_get__


This produces:

a
False

I expected to see 'nostatget' output: nostat.__get__ = nostatget 
obviously failed to replace this function's __get__ method.

The question is why? Isn't __get__ a normal attribute of a function nostat?

This is made so much weirder that nostat.__get__ is no longer original 
__get__, so it looks like it should have been replaced, but if so, why 
nostatget doesn't get called?

Regards,
mk





From simon at brunningonline.net  Thu Feb 18 13:14:22 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:14:22 +0000
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002181014s6da28c8t7012d751cb077f3d@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 February 2010 15:36, joy99 <subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
> (iv) ? ?Is SOAPpy fine?

AFAIK, SOAPpy is unsupported, and a bit on the stale side. Those poor
souls forced to make SOAP calls with Python seem to be using Suds
mostly these days,.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:16:06 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:16:06 +0100
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know what happened to pyjs.org ?

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 13:44:23 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:44:23 +0000
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlk1pi$1qg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
> Does anyone know what happened to pyjs.org ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Daniel
> 
> 

According to google cache it was fine 13/02/2010 and it's down according 
to this.
http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/pyjs.org

HTH.

Mark Lawrence



From sccolbert at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:44:40 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:44:40 -0500
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>

it's working for me.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Daniel Fetchinson <
fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know what happened to pyjs.org ?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:47:08 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:47:08 +0100
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002181047o434ddd4fsaad2e41937916bc0@mail.gmail.com>

>> Does anyone know what happened to pyjs.org ?
>
> it's working for me.

That's odd, it's unpingable for me from both Europe and the US, ping
says unknown host.

Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From python at bdurham.com  Thu Feb 18 13:54:27 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:54:27 -0500
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
Message-ID: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I'm doing a code review of an application that occassionally
writes blocks of secure data to temp files created with
tempfile.TemporaryFile( delete=True ).

How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile(
delete=True )?

Are there OS specific nuances I should be concerned about
regarding use of this function on Windows (XP or higher) or
Linux?

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:58:59 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2D76D1-AE2A-47F0-A1D0-805CABA62150@gmail.com>

Down from here (NH, US).

S


On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:

> 



From comptekki at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 14:32:59 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:32:59 -0700
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Wes James wrote:
<snip>

>
> Just to add to the list of solutions I've seen, letting the built-in csv
> module do the heavy lifting:
>
> ?>>> s = "['a','b']"
> ?>>> import csv
> ?>>> no_brackets = s[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
> ?>>> c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
> ?>>> c.next()
> ?['a', 'b']
>
> This also gives you a bit of control regarding how escaping is done, and
> other knobs & dials to twiddle if you need. Additionally, if you have more
> than one string to process coming from an iterable source (such as a file),
> you can just pass that iterator to csv.reader() instead of concocting a
> one-element list.

Thx,  I think this will work for what I want.

-wes


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 18 14:33:11 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:33:11 +0000
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
In-Reply-To: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> I'm doing a code review of an application that occassionally writes 
> blocks of secure data to temp files created with tempfile.TemporaryFile( 
> delete=True ).
>  
> How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile( delete=True )?
>  
> Are there OS specific nuances I should be concerned about regarding use 
> of this function on Windows (XP or higher) or Linux?
>  
Well, the contents of temp files aren't encrypted, if that's what you're
asking, so if you're writing unencrypted data to a temp file then other
applications could read it.


From comptekki at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 14:56:16 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:56:16 -0700
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
	<533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Tim Chase
> <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>> Wes James wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>
>> Just to add to the list of solutions I've seen, letting the built-in csv
>> module do the heavy lifting:
>>
>> ?>>> s = "['a','b']"
>> ?>>> import csv
>> ?>>> no_brackets = s[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
>> ?>>> c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
>> ?>>> c.next()
>> ?['a', 'b']


Hmm.  When I put csv.reader in a class:

import csv

class IS_LIST():
    def __init__(self, format='', error_message='must be a list!'):
        self.format = format
        self.error_message = error_message
    def __call__(self, value):
        try:
            if value=='[]' or value=='':
            	value=[]
            else:
            	no_brackets = value[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
            	c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
		value=c.next()
            return (value, None)
        except:
            return (value, self.error_message)
    def formatter(self, value):
        return value

I get an error (when I take the "try" out):

AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'reader'

Why?

-wes


From nagle at animats.com  Thu Feb 18 14:58:32 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:58:32 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

John Nagle wrote:

>    I look at this as Python's answer to multicore CPUs and "Go".

    On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
designers of Intel's Nelahem core.  The four-core, eight thread
version is out now.  The six-core, twelve thread version is working;
the speaker has one in his lab.  The eight-core, sixteen thread version
is some months away.  This isn't an expensive CPU; this is Intel's
"converged" mainstream product.  (Although there will be a whole range
of "economy" and "performance" versions, all with the same core but
with some stuff turned off.)

    Python isn't ready for this.  Not with the GIL.

    Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
miss rate goes up accordingly.

					John Nagle


From malkarouri at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:00:17 2010
From: malkarouri at gmail.com (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:00:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
make a few comments though.

On Feb 18, 3:36?pm, joy99 <subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I was reading on SOA or Service Oriented Architecture for last few
> days and got some questions. As this is a room for the expert computer
> scientists, if you can help me solve my queries.
>
> As per I read and felt SOA is an architecture, which relies on few
> basic principles as,
> the system must be modular, the modules must be distributive, module
> interfaces must be clearly defined and documented, module that
> implements a service can be swapped out for another module that offers
> the same service and interface, service provider modules must be
> shareable.
> SOA is an architecture which is now a days governed like XML by W3C.

SOA is an architecture which can be implemented using any of a number
of different middleware choices. It is not governed or controlled by
anyone. You are mixing it up with SOAP, which is a web services
technology, currently governed by W3C.
For example, I tend to use SOA implemented using REST
(Representational State Transfer).

All of these technologies are somewhat explained in wikipedia. You
probably want to start there.

> The latest version is SOAP 1.2.

This is the latest of SOAP, not SOA.

> SOA is implemented mainly in a client/server environment, where
> applications have the use of service, thus we can say it is a service-
> oriented architecture.
> It is a step towards cloud computing with its sister WSDL and BPM.

A SOAP web service is described using WSDL. BPM is not really
connected with them, but is probably more connected with SOA as an
architecture. BPM can be implemented using SOAP/WSDL web services, as
can SOA.

>
> If both client/server are following the SOA then they can communicate
> and exchange information without worrying for platform.

You mean SOAP here.
In real life, there are interoperability issues. So various
implementations of SOAP will need a bit of work to actually work
together.

SOA is an architecture and does not help exchanging information in a
direct way.

>
> SOAP is a software implementation of Python,.NET,J2EE based on this
> principle.

SOAP is a web services protocol that was created before the concept of
SOA was developed enough for use and is largely independent of it.
SOAP has been implemented in many different languages, like
Java, .Net, C/C++, Python, etc.

> SOAPPy is a Python implementation.

SOAP implementations in Python are not of the best quality (in my
opinion, there are better ways to achieve the ends needed). SOAPpy is
currently a bit out of date. The better ones are ZSI (for client and
server) and suds (for clients).

I guess I have already answered some of your questions.

>
> My questions are:
> (i) ? ? Am I understanding correctly?

See above.

> (ii) ? ?Does SOAP has any standard architecture like UML other than the
> W3C one?

Depends on what you mean by architecture. SOAP is a standard. UML is a
way of modelling software and can be used to model web services, which
can then be implemented in SOAP.

> (iii) ? Can I write short programs to check the SOAP using my personal
> computer as client as well as Server?

Yes. Try ZSI examples (http://pywebsvcs.sourceforge.net/zsi.html).

> (iv) ? ?Is SOAPpy fine?

See above.

> (v) ? ? What is the difference among SOAP, WSDL and BPM.

SOAP standardise the communication between client and server. WSDL
describes the methods provided by a server to be consumed by a client
(interfaces in Java language). BPM is a management method to improve
business and is not a software protocol but an approach.

> (vi) ? ?As SOAP is for communication with a server if I pick a URL and
> start to communicate with Google/Yahoo would they allow?

To be able to talk SOAP to a server, it must understand SOAP. Some of
those companies do provide SOAP web service access, but their standard
search pages are accessible in pure HTTP (the way you browser uses
them).
To access a SOAP service you need to know the functions exported by
it, which are usually defined in a WSDL document.

> (vii) ? Can I design a web based robot/crawler with SOAP?

No. Web pages are accessed using simple HTTP. SOAP is usually deployed
on top of HTTP, but most web pages are not communicated using SOAP.
You can search for Python web crawling; there are a lot of examples on
the web.


Regards,

k


From python at bdurham.com  Thu Feb 18 15:09:28 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:09:28 -0500
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
In-Reply-To: <4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <1266523768.19867.1360705413@webmail.messagingengine.com>

MRAB,

> Well, the contents of temp files aren't encrypted, if that's what you're asking

I understand the contents of temp files aren't encrypted.

> if you're writing unencrypted data to a temp file then other applications could read it.

That's my concern - can other applications really read my temp files
created with tempfile.TemporaryFile( delete=True )?

I don't think so because:

1. These files appear to be exclusively locked by my process, eg. no
other processes can read or write to these temp files except the process
that created these files.

2. As soon as my process terminates (voluntarily or involuntarily), the
temp file gets deleted.

But I want to make sure.

Thanks, 
Mal


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 18 15:12:25 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:12:25 -0600
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>	<533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
	<533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D9F29.7070002@tim.thechases.com>

> import csv
> 
> class IS_LIST():
>     def __init__(self, format='', error_message='must be a list!'):
>         self.format = format
>         self.error_message = error_message
>     def __call__(self, value):
>         try:
>             if value=='[]' or value=='':
>             	value=[]
>             else:
>             	no_brackets = value[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
>             	c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
> 		value=c.next()
>             return (value, None)
>         except:
>             return (value, self.error_message)
>     def formatter(self, value):
>         return value
> 
> I get an error (when I take the "try" out):
> 
> AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'reader'

A couple ideas occur to me:

1) you haven't copy/pasted the exact (or entirety of the) code, 
and something you're doing is shadowing the "csv" module

2) are you using Python 2.x or 3.x?  I don't know if the csv 
module has changed in 3.x but it should work in 2.x

The first thing to check would be to pull up a raw python prompt 
and see if your csv module has the expected reader:

   >>> import csv
   >>> csv.reader
   <built-in function reader>

If not, something likely changed in 3.x and you'd have to inspect 
the docs to see what happened to the reader.

If you get the above evidence of an existing reader, then you're 
likely shadowing it.

-tkc




From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:16:03 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:16:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7348214b-4bd1-4f41-984c-1893fb51afae@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

commander_coder wrote:

> I have a routine that sends an email (this is how a Django view
> notifies me that an event has happened). ?I want to unit test that
> routine.

Are you opening SMTP and POP3 sockets??

If you are not developing that layer itself, just use Django's built-
in mock system. Here's my favorite assertion for it:

    def assert_mail(self, funk):
        from django.core import mail
        previous_mails = len(mail.outbox)
        funk()
        mails = mail.outbox[ previous_mails : ]
        assert [] != mails, 'the called block should produce emails'
        if len(mails) == 1:  return mails[0]
        return mails

You call it a little bit like this:

        missive = self.assert_mail( lambda:
mark_order_as_shipped(order) )

Then you can use assert_contains on the missive.body, to see what mail
got generated. That's what you are actually developing, so your tests
should skip any irrelevant layers, and only test the layers where you
yourself might add bugs.

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From daniele.gondoni at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:21:16 2010
From: daniele.gondoni at gmail.com (Daniele Gondoni)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:21:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2733.1266519548.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6777ece-9b45-4423-8e77-cfa743e67134@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Feb, 19:58, "sstein... at gmail.com" <sstein... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Down from here (NH, US).
>
> S
>
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>
>
>
>

Unreacheable from Italy as well...


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:26:58 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:26:58 -0500
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <4B2D76D1-AE2A-47F0-A1D0-805CABA62150@gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B2D76D1-AE2A-47F0-A1D0-805CABA62150@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002181226o6f8c1e20u2d525c86ac96c59f@mail.gmail.com>

ah, yep, i was viewing the page chrome had cached. It's down for me too. I
lose the trace in Washington:

 3  G3-0-873.TAMPFL-LCR-08.verizon-gni.net (130.81.110.222)  14.399 ms
 17.917 ms  18.040 ms
 4  so-6-1-0-0.TPA01-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.29.242)  18.666 ms
 18.890 ms  19.232 ms
 5  ge-1-0-0-0.ATL01-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.17.48)  36.460 ms
 38.546 ms  38.707 ms
 6  0.so-2-2-0.XT2.ATL5.ALTER.NET (152.63.86.73)  41.357 ms  33.709 ms
 35.851 ms
 7  * 0.so-7-0-0.XT2.ATL4.ALTER.NET (152.63.86.109)  34.522 ms  37.320 ms
 8  0.xe-10-1-0.BR3.ATL4.ALTER.NET (152.63.82.13)  37.558 ms  32.756 ms
 35.533 ms
 9  xe-11-2-0.edge4.Atlanta2.Level3.net (4.68.62.17)  37.715 ms  100.222 ms
 102.317 ms
10  ae-71-52.ebr1.Atlanta2.Level3.net (4.68.103.60)  40.227 ms  34.315 ms
 36.647 ms
11  ae-73-70.ebr3.Atlanta2.Level3.net (4.69.138.20)  42.695 ms  39.589 ms
 41.666 ms
12  ae-2-2.ebr1.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.132.86)  52.152 ms  54.256 ms
 54.540 ms
13  ae-61-61.csw1.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.134.130)  61.982 ms  62.316
ms  62.460 ms
14  ae-14-69.car4.Washington1.Level3.net (4.68.17.6)  55.660 ms  55.645 ms
 56.943 ms
15  CO-LOCATION.car4.Washington1.Level3.net (4.79.170.254)  59.423 ms
 58.914 ms  50.872 ms
16  * * *
17  * * *
18  * * *
19  * * *
20  * * *
21  * * *
22  * * *
23  * * *
24  * * *
25  * * *
26  * * *
27  * * *
28  * * *
29  * * *
30  * * *

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:58 PM, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com>wrote:

> Down from here (NH, US).
>
> S
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>
> >
>
>
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From python at bdurham.com  Thu Feb 18 15:32:12 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:32:12 -0500
Subject: Why do full path names to module show up multiple times in .PYC files?
Message-ID: <1266525132.23323.1360707279@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I just happened to look at a compiled Python 2.6.4 .PYC file in
an editor and noticed that the full path and file name of the
compiled module showed up in my .PYC file at least 10 different
times. Is there a reason for full vs. relative path names and why
does the module name need to be duplicated so many times?

It appears that .PYO files only use a filename (without a path).

I assume the only way for us to suppress path names (which may
have confidential client names) in our compiled distributions is
to use .PYO vs. .PYC files? Is this correct?

Thanks,
Malcolm
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Feb 18 15:33:14 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:33:14 -0500
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
	<533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
	<533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002181233pbc1813eo11579e54ba6d8878@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I get an error (when I take the "try" out):
>
> AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'reader'
>

 You have a function called "csv" that's defined after the import csv
statement is executed. That function has no attribute 'reader", so you
get the error. By the way, don't use a bare except- it's bad form
because it hides any other problems you have.


From luismgz at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:45:05 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:45:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2733.1266519548.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6777ece-9b45-4423-8e77-cfa743e67134@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ab331e39-bf23-4f62-a092-960dd07818b0@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 5:21?pm, Daniele Gondoni <daniele.gond... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18 Feb, 19:58, "sstein... at gmail.com" <sstein... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Down from here (NH, US).
>
> > S
>
> > On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>
> Unreacheable from Italy as well...

Same here (Buenos Aires, Argentina).


From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Thu Feb 18 15:53:32 2010
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:53:32 +0100
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <ab331e39-bf23-4f62-a092-960dd07818b0@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2733.1266519548.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6777ece-9b45-4423-8e77-cfa743e67134@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<ab331e39-bf23-4f62-a092-960dd07818b0@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7da919$0$22938$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 2/18/10 9:45 PM, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> On Feb 18, 5:21 pm, Daniele Gondoni<daniele.gond... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 18 Feb, 19:58, "sstein... at gmail.com"<sstein... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Down from here (NH, US).
>>
>>> S
>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>>
>> Unreacheable from Italy as well...
>
> Same here (Buenos Aires, Argentina).

It ain't down till Netcraft confirms it!

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pyjs.org

Oh wait...

-irmen



From CORY.L.NARDIN at saic.com  Thu Feb 18 16:00:19 2010
From: CORY.L.NARDIN at saic.com (Nardin, Cory L.)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:00:19 -0800
Subject: Python won't run
Message-ID: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502AC479A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Quickly, I have a Mac Intel with Windows XP installed.  Tried installing
Python 2.6.4 from the binary and also ActivePython 2.6.4.10.  Both
installations acted the same.  There seemed to be no problems during
installation (used default options), but when I try to run Python I get
an error message: "This application has failed to start because the
application configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application
may fix this problem."

 

Of course I searched on that error and it seems to be related to a MS
library.  In a few different places it was recommended to install the MS
Visual Studio redistributable package, which I did with no change in
outcome.  I really have no idea what to do.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Cory

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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 16:07:21 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:07:21 +0000
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
> Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
> make a few comments though.
This might be a Python group, but threads often drift way off topic, 
which added to the language itself make this a great group to read.  If 
you don't like the way a thread goes, you can always skip it.
> 
> On Feb 18, 3:36 pm, joy99 <subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> I was reading on SOA or Service Oriented Architecture for last few
>> days and got some questions. As this is a room for the expert computer
>> scientists, if you can help me solve my queries.
>>
>> As per I read and felt SOA is an architecture, which relies on few
>> basic principles as,
>> the system must be modular, the modules must be distributive, module
>> interfaces must be clearly defined and documented, module that
>> implements a service can be swapped out for another module that offers
>> the same service and interface, service provider modules must be
>> shareable.
>> SOA is an architecture which is now a days governed like XML by W3C.
> 
> SOA is an architecture which can be implemented using any of a number
> of different middleware choices. It is not governed or controlled by
> anyone. You are mixing it up with SOAP, which is a web services
> technology, currently governed by W3C.
> For example, I tend to use SOA implemented using REST
> (Representational State Transfer).
> 
> All of these technologies are somewhat explained in wikipedia. You
> probably want to start there.
> 
>> The latest version is SOAP 1.2.
> 
> This is the latest of SOAP, not SOA.
> 
>> SOA is implemented mainly in a client/server environment, where
>> applications have the use of service, thus we can say it is a service-
>> oriented architecture.
>> It is a step towards cloud computing with its sister WSDL and BPM.
> 
> A SOAP web service is described using WSDL. BPM is not really
> connected with them, but is probably more connected with SOA as an
> architecture. BPM can be implemented using SOAP/WSDL web services, as
> can SOA.
> 
>> If both client/server are following the SOA then they can communicate
>> and exchange information without worrying for platform.
> 
> You mean SOAP here.
> In real life, there are interoperability issues. So various
> implementations of SOAP will need a bit of work to actually work
> together.
> 
> SOA is an architecture and does not help exchanging information in a
> direct way.
> 
>> SOAP is a software implementation of Python,.NET,J2EE based on this
>> principle.
> 
> SOAP is a web services protocol that was created before the concept of
> SOA was developed enough for use and is largely independent of it.
> SOAP has been implemented in many different languages, like
> Java, .Net, C/C++, Python, etc.
> 
>> SOAPPy is a Python implementation.
> 
> SOAP implementations in Python are not of the best quality (in my
> opinion, there are better ways to achieve the ends needed). SOAPpy is
> currently a bit out of date. The better ones are ZSI (for client and
> server) and suds (for clients).
> 
> I guess I have already answered some of your questions.
> 
>> My questions are:
>> (i)     Am I understanding correctly?
> 
> See above.
> 
>> (ii)    Does SOAP has any standard architecture like UML other than the
>> W3C one?
> 
> Depends on what you mean by architecture. SOAP is a standard. UML is a
> way of modelling software and can be used to model web services, which
> can then be implemented in SOAP.
> 
>> (iii)   Can I write short programs to check the SOAP using my personal
>> computer as client as well as Server?
> 
> Yes. Try ZSI examples (http://pywebsvcs.sourceforge.net/zsi.html).
> 
>> (iv)    Is SOAPpy fine?
> 
> See above.
> 
>> (v)     What is the difference among SOAP, WSDL and BPM.
> 
> SOAP standardise the communication between client and server. WSDL
> describes the methods provided by a server to be consumed by a client
> (interfaces in Java language). BPM is a management method to improve
> business and is not a software protocol but an approach.
> 
>> (vi)    As SOAP is for communication with a server if I pick a URL and
>> start to communicate with Google/Yahoo would they allow?
> 
> To be able to talk SOAP to a server, it must understand SOAP. Some of
> those companies do provide SOAP web service access, but their standard
> search pages are accessible in pure HTTP (the way you browser uses
> them).
> To access a SOAP service you need to know the functions exported by
> it, which are usually defined in a WSDL document.
> 
>> (vii)   Can I design a web based robot/crawler with SOAP?
> 
> No. Web pages are accessed using simple HTTP. SOAP is usually deployed
> on top of HTTP, but most web pages are not communicated using SOAP.
> You can search for Python web crawling; there are a lot of examples on
> the web.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> k



From dick128 at verizon.net  Thu Feb 18 16:11:54 2010
From: dick128 at verizon.net (dick bly)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:11:54 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Subject: Win32print apache mod_python vista
Message-ID: <4B7DAD19.00000C.07308@LAPTOP2>

I have a program that uses mod_python in Apache and does a win32print using
the default printer
This works fine under win xp but the configuration under vista raises and
error - no default printer found -
Its the same code, same Apache, same mod_python, same python - only
difference is vista so I am assuming vista is trying to be my friend by not
giving me access to the printers - can any help with this ?
 
Richard Bly
cell 817 996 6458
dick128 at verizon.net
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 18 16:18:51 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 13:18:51 -0800
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
	<533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2736.1266522979.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlkarr$5ch$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2736.1266522979.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Wes James  <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>        try:
>            if value=3D=3D'[]' or value=3D=3D'':
>            	value=3D[]
>            else:
>            	no_brackets =3D value[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
>            	c =3D csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar=3D"'")
>		value=3Dc.next()
>            return (value, None)
>        except:
>            return (value, self.error_message)

Two important points:

* Don't use bare except: clauses

* Put less code in the try: clause to make it easier to track down
problems
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Feb 18 16:19:16 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:19:16 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B7DAED4.3010500@stoneleaf.us>

John Nagle wrote:
> John Nagle wrote:
> 
>>    I look at this as Python's answer to multicore CPUs and "Go".
> 
>    On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
> designers of Intel's Nelahem core.  The four-core, eight thread
> version is out now.  The six-core, twelve thread version is working;
> the speaker has one in his lab.  The eight-core, sixteen thread version
> is some months away.  This isn't an expensive CPU; this is Intel's
> "converged" mainstream product.  (Although there will be a whole range
> of "economy" and "performance" versions, all with the same core but
> with some stuff turned off.)
> 
>    Python isn't ready for this.  Not with the GIL.
> 
>    Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
> miss rate goes up accordingly.
> 
>                     John Nagle


Will the new GIL in 3.2 make this workable?  It would still be one 
thread at a time, though, wouldn't it.

~Ethan~


From ntwrkd at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 16:34:46 2010
From: ntwrkd at gmail.com (ntwrkd)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:34:46 -0800
Subject: LISA 2010 CFP
Message-ID: <f257b9ab1002181334h2e0bb7a0r63dc05e44e1d6217@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,
The USENIX Large Installation System Administration Conference is now
accepting paper proposals.
If you are interested in submitting a paper, please check out this
blog post about submitting a paper
(http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa10/cfp/), or feel free to contact me
directly if you think you might have a topic to present.

Thank you,
Matthew


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 18 16:40:42 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 13:40:42 -0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlkc4q$lm4$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d at westnet.com.au>,
R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar <chyavana at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>---
>import subprocess
>
>width = 5
>height = 30
>colors = ['#abcdef]', '#456789']
>filename = "/tmp/image.png"
>
># I want to get the equivalent of variable interpolation in Perl
># so that the command
>#
># convert -size 5x30 gradient:#abcdef-#456789 /tmp/image.png

Here's the equivalent of Peter's cute code in simpler form:

cmd = [
    'convert',
    '-size',
    '%sx%s' % (width, height),
    'gradient:%s-%s' % tuple(colors),
    # above could also be: 'gradient:%s-%s' % (colors[0], colors[1]),
    filename,
    ]
subprocess.Popen(cmd)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 17:07:27 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 22:07:27 GMT
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7dba1e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:28:44 +0100, mk wrote:

>      nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__

I should point out that leading-and-trailing-double-underscore names are 
reserved for use by the language.

It's unlikely that Python will introduce a special method named 
__orig_get__, and in truth the prohibition against using such names is 
honoured more in the breach than in the observance (e.g. people often use 
metadata names like __version__, __author__, etc.). But just be aware 
that you are in technical breach of Python best practices, and should 
consider renaming it as _orig_get or __orig_get.


-- 
Steven


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb 18 17:11:24 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:11:24 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002181411r1a1c8eb9h5c244d54213dd848@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
<snip>
> ? On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
> designers of Intel's Nelahem core. ?The four-core, eight thread
> version is out now. ?The six-core, twelve thread version is working;
> the speaker has one in his lab. ?The eight-core, sixteen thread version
> is some months away. ?This isn't an expensive CPU; this is Intel's
> "converged" mainstream product. ?(Although there will be a whole range
> of "economy" and "performance" versions, all with the same core but
> with some stuff turned off.)
>
> ? Python isn't ready for this. ?Not with the GIL.

Is any language, save perhaps Erlang, really ready for it?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 17:12:02 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 22:12:02 GMT
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4b7dbb31$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:58:32 -0800, John Nagle wrote:

> John Nagle wrote:
> 
>>    I look at this as Python's answer to multicore CPUs and "Go".
> 
>     On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
> designers of Intel's Nelahem core.  The four-core, eight thread version
> is out now. [...]
> 
>     Python isn't ready for this.  Not with the GIL.

Pardon me, but Python is perfectly ready for this. Why aren't you using 
Jython or IronPython, if the GIL is such a drag on your use-case?



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 17:17:57 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 22:17:57 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> On Feb 18, 1:23?am, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
>> > On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
>> > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> >> In message
>> >> <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517... at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> >> > I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be
>> >> > a nice feature for Python.
>>
>> >> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming
>> >> > language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was
>> >> > perl.)
>>
>> >> Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?
>>
>> >> What more do you need?
>>
>> > I don't know, but I tend to find the name of the function I called to
>> > be useful. It's much more memorable than line numbers, particularly
>> > when line numbers keep changing.
>>
>> > I doubt it's just me, though.
>>
>> Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors:
>>
>> In any language it isn't much use if you get a bug report from a
>> shipped program that says there was an error on line 793 but no report
>> of exactly which version of the shipped code was being run.
>>
>> Microsoft love telling you the line number: if IE gets a Javascript
>> error it reports line number but not filename, so you have to guess
>> which of the HTML page or one of many included files actually had the
>> error. Plus the line number that is reported is often slightly off.
>>
>> Javascript in particular is often sent to the browser compressed then
>> uncompressed and eval'd. That makes line numbers completely useless for
>> tracking down bugs as you'll always get the line number of the eval.
>> Also the way functions are defined in Javascript means you'll often
>> have almost every function listed in a backtrace as 'Anonymous'.
> 
> If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a
> quadruple strawman.

There really ought to be a special level of Hell for people who misuse 
"strawman" to mean "a weak or invalid argument" instead of what it 
actually means, which is a weak or invalid argument NOT HELD by your 
opponent, which you (generic you) made up specifically for the sake of 
shooting down.

If you actually read what Duncan says, he prefixes his response with:

"Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors".

Duncan's post is an argument against relying on line numbers as your 
main, or only, source of information about the location of bugs in 
Javascript.

In fact, this post is remarkable for the sheer number of actual strawman 
arguments that you (Steve Howell) use:


> Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Strawman #1: nobody said that shipping buggy code was a good idea, with 
or without named functions. But shipping buggy code *happens*, no matter 
how careful you are, so you need to expect bug reports back from users.

(And they will be *hard to find* bugs, because if they were easy to find 
you would have found them in your own testing before shipping.)


> Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Strawman #2: nobody said that obscuring line numbers was a good idea. But 
apparently compressing Javascript is valuable for other reasons, and 
obscuring the line numbers is the side-effect of doing so. 

And even knowing the line numbers is not necessarily useful, because many 
bugs aren't due to the line that raises the stack trace. Just because you 
know the line which failed doesn't mean you know how to fix the bug.


> Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
> idea, even with named functions.

Strawman #3: nobody said that staying on older versions is a good idea. 
But sometimes it happens whether you like it or not.

(Although I'd like to point out that from the end user's perspective, 
sometimes we don't want your stinkin' new version with all the anti-
features and pessimations and will stick to the old version for as long 
as possible. If you don't like it, then think a bit harder before adding 
anti-features like fragile, easily-corrupted databases which perform 
really, really badly when your home directory is mounted over the 
network. I'm talking to you, Firefox developers.)

And it doesn't really matter: you either end-of-life the old version, in 
which case you don't need to do anything about the bug report except say 
"upgrade", or you decide to continue support, in which case it doesn't 
matter whether the bug is reported for an old version or the latest 
version, you still need to fix it.


> Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
> running is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Strawman #4. 

See the pattern? When you attack a position the other guy hasn't taken, 
that's a strawman. When you make a weak argument, it's just a weak 
argument.



-- 
Steven


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 17:25:12 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:25:12 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>

This has to be a stupid question, but :)

I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
"generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
generalized system.

The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:

    def gen():
        # do my one-time processing here

        return
        yield

Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly. I
tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of course that didn't work.

TIA,
--S
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 17:26:33 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:26:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with lambda
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <39ded391-c814-4c17-936f-3a4f55c3d9ec@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 4:28?am, lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]

This is (pretty much) what the above code does.

>>> f = []
>>> n = 2
>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>> n = 3
>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>> n = 4
>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>> n = 5
>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)

Now, when you call f[0], you are calling "lambda x: x**n". What is
"n"?

You need some way of creating a new namespace and a new variable
pointing to what "n" was for that iteration. Python doesn't create a
namespace for every iteration like some languages may. You have to be
more explicit about that. After all, what would you expect the
following code to do?

>>> n = 5
>>> f = [lambda x: x**n for i in range(2,5)]
>>> n = 2
>>> f[0][5]

Or, just call a function that will have a new namespace *for every
call* and generate a function within each execution of that function
(like make_power does).


From brendon.wickham at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 17:44:17 2010
From: brendon.wickham at gmail.com (Brendon Wickham)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:44:17 +1100
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c07e3c71002181444w3bdbd714kd62ef4e3625b66af@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 February 2010 08:07, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>>
>> Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
>> make a few comments though.
>
> This might be a Python group, but threads often drift way off topic, which
> added to the language itself make this a great group to read. ?If you don't
> like the way a thread goes, you can always skip it.


Perhaps...but he answered the question very well and with great, IMO, patience.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 17:49:38 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:49:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ? ? def print_numbers()
> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> ? ? ? ? }
> ? ? end
>

If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
not following Lisp in that regard.

for n in range(1,6):
    square = n*n
    cube = n*n*n
    if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
    print cube


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 17:56:09 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:56:09 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> This has to be a stupid question, but :)
>
> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
> "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
> generalized system.
>
> The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
>
>      def gen():
>          # do my one-time processing here
>
>          return
>          yield
>
> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly. I
> tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of course that didn't work.

class once(object):
     def __init__(self, func, *args, **kwds):
         self.func = func
         self.args = args
         self.kwds = kwds

     def __iter__(self):
         return self

     def next(self):
         self.func(*self.args, **self.kwds)
         raise StopIteration()


Then write regular functions with the one-time processing code (not 
generators!). When you go to pass them into your system that wants an iterator, 
just wrap it with once(func).

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 18:00:51 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 23:00:51 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7dc6a2$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:15:46 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's unforgivable to occasionally ship
> software with bugs.  It happens.

"Occasionally"? Oh, if only.

I would say that there probably isn't a non-trivial application in the 
world that is entirely bug-free. If you're shipping something more 
complex than the proverbial "Hello World", chances are high that there 
will be bugs, and the more complex the app, the more bugs are likely.


> Compressing Javascript is sometimes necessary, but I believe that often
> mangles named functions too.

It doesn't mangle the function, it mangles reporting of line numbers. But 
if you know the name of the function, it is much easier to recover from 
that loss of information.

 
> To the the extent that your customer is running old software and cannot
> always coherently describe tracebacks over a telephone, that problem can
> be solved in the software itself, assuming an Internet connection.  The
> software can capture the traceback and report back to a server with the
> version number.

I don't understand why you repeatedly mention "old software". It is 
irrelevant: the software is either supported, or not supported. If it's 
not supported, you don't care about the bugs. If it is supported, then it 
doesn't matter whether it is version 2.2 or 2.3 or the bleeding edge 2.4-
pre-alpha straight out of subversion, you still have to go through the 
same process of finding the bug, solving it, then rolling the fix out to 
all supported versions where the bug applies.

That's not to say that the version number isn't useful information to 
have, because it can be, but distinguishing between old versions and the 
current version isn't a useful distinction. In a sense, there are no old 
versions, there are merely multiple supported current versions.

> So, much of the argument against anonymous functions presented so far is
> really orthogonal to whether functions are named or not.

Not so. The point is that anonymous functions lack useful information, 
namely the function name. Because line numbers can be unreliable or even 
missing completely, and even when reliable many people have a mental 
blind-spot for them (I know I do, and I'm gratified to see I'm not the 
only one), lacking a good name for the function is a handicap. Not 
necessarily an insurmountable one, but anonymous functions are more 
troublesome than named functions.

You wouldn't name your functions:

f01, f02, f03, f04, ... f99

(say), unless you were trying to deliberately obfuscate your code. 
Anonymous functions are even more obfuscated than that. You can get away 
with it so long as you're only dealing with a few, in well-defined 
placed, but you wouldn't want to use them all over the place.

-- 
Steven


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 18:04:28 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:04:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 11:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ? ? def print_numbers()
> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> ? ? ? ? }
> ? ? end
>
> IMHO there is no reason that I should have to name the content of each
> of those four blocks of code, nor should I have to introduce the
> "lambda" keyword.

You could do it without intermediate names or lambdas in Python as:
def print_numbers():
    for i in [ cube for (square, cube) in
                         [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]]
               if square!=25 and cube!=64 ]:
        print i

But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:

def print_numbers():
    tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
    filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
cube!=64 ]
    for f in filtered:
        print f


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 18:08:32 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 23:08:32 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7dc870$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

Sorry for breaking the threading, but Stephen's original post hasn't come 
through to my provider.

On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> This has to be a stupid question, but :)
>
> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only
> really "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as
> part of a generalized system.
>
> The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
>
>      def gen():
>          # do my one-time processing here
>
>          return
>          yield

If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then surely 
there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the comment?


>> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly.

Meh. An empty generator is a funny thing to do, so it's not bad that it 
reads a bit funny. I don't have a problem with it.

If it really annoys you, you could do this:

def empty():
    for x in []:
        yield



-- 
Steven


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:30:54 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:30:54 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
Message-ID: <hlkijd$tt8$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Feb 18, 5:08 pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
 > On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
 >
 > > This has to be a stupid question, but :)
 >
 > > I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
 > > occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only
 > > really "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as
 > > part of a generalized system.
 >
 > > The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
 >
 > >      def gen():
 > >          # do my one-time processing here
 >
 > >          return
 > >          yield
 >
 > If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then surely
 > there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the comment?

Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it hits the 
return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the iterator, the 
code elided by the comment executes, then the return is hit, a StopIteration 
exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Feb 18 18:33:00 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:33:00 +1100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
> >
> >      def gen():
> >          # do my one-time processing here
> >
> >          return
> >          yield
> >
> > Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch
> > slightly. I tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of
> > course that didn't work.

No need to define functions or classes; let a generator expression take
care of it for you::

    >>> foo = (x for x in list())
    >>> foo.next()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    StopIteration

-- 
 \           ?Value your freedom or you will lose it, teaches history. |
  `\     ?Don't bother us with politics,? respond those who don't want |
_o__)                               to learn.? ?Richard Stallman, 2002 |
Ben Finney


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Feb 18 18:35:02 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:35:02 +1000
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hlkijd$tt8$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlkijd$tt8$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002181535h782e8f41l9e50a87dd7360d36@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think it's a stupid question at all. =]. But wouldn't it solve the
problem if you call the generator the first time you need it to yield?

Cheers,
Xav


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 18, 5:08 pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au>
> wrote:
> > On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> >
> > > This has to be a stupid question, but :)
> >
> > > I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> > > occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only
> > > really "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as
> > > part of a generalized system.
> >
> > > The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
> >
> > >      def gen():
> > >          # do my one-time processing here
> >
> > >          return
> > >          yield
> >
> > If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then surely
> > there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the comment?
>
> Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it hits
> the return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the
> iterator, the code elided by the comment executes, then the return is hit, a
> StopIteration exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.
>
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
> enigma
>  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it
> had
>  an underlying truth."
>  -- Umberto Eco
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:36:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:36:02 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

> class once(object):
>    def __init__(self, func, *args, **kwds):
>        self.func = func
>        self.args = args
>        self.kwds = kwds
>
>    def __iter__(self):
>        return self
>
>    def next(self):
>        self.func(*self.args, **self.kwds)
>        raise StopIteration()
>

Hmm, yeah. I'd probably tweak it into a decorator and name it
sideeffect_only or something, but yeah, that's the right approach at least.

My motivation is clarity, I can just see a colleague a year from now asking
me, "... what the hell is return / yield?" and although this is more
expensive, its less clear to me.

Thanks.
--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:37:09 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:37:09 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4b7dc870$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7dc870$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002181537o441a4383s64656730c2dd5264@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
> >
> >      def gen():
> >          # do my one-time processing here
> >
> >          return
> >          yield
>
> If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then surely
> there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the comment?
>

Its possible I didn't explain myself well. I don't want a generator that
does /nothing at all/, but a generator that yields nothing.

Basically, I have a core system that loads up a bunch of modules
dynamically. The API of these modules is that their initialization function
is a generator that yields objects that the core system juggles. For the
majority of the cases, this is just fine.

A couple modules though, just really need to do a one-time action, and
everything's done. I /could/ change the initialization function to return a
generator, and not be a generator itself, and check if its None or not, etc.
But I don't really want to, as I like the API the way it is.

So really, the above generator looks like:

def initialize():
    os.environ["BLAH"] = 5

    return
    yield

In that its doing a single side-effect action and that's it.


> >> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly.
>
> Meh. An empty generator is a funny thing to do, so it's not bad that it
> reads a bit funny. I don't have a problem with it.
>

It doesn't -really- annoy me, it just makes me flinch slightly, and that's
very rare. Even the stranger things to do in Python rarely make me flinch.
So I was wondering if I missed something basically, and if there's a proper
way to do it.

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:40:01 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:40:01 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002181540x7ac9bc33uf112609b9e47ef02@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com>wrote:

> My motivation is clarity, I can just see a colleague a year from now asking
> me, "... what the hell is return / yield?" and although this is more
> expensive, its less clear to me.
>

MORE clear to me. A class / decorator / whatever may be more expensive then
return / yield, but it reads better and is more clear, to me.

Not less.

Ahem.

--S
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From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb 18 18:47:18 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:47:18 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <878waqw1h5.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? ? def print_numbers()
>> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
>> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
>> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
>> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
>> ? ? ? ? }
>> ? ? end
>>
>
> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
> not following Lisp in that regard.
>
> for n in range(1,6):

                   ^ should be 7

But for the rest, I agree with you. I can read Steve's version, but even
to an experienced Perl programmer that looks quite noisy :-)

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:49:08 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:49:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Feb, 23:33, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
[...]
> No need to define functions or classes; let a generator expression take
> care of it for you::
>
> ? ? >>> foo = (x for x in list())
> ? ? >>> foo.next()
> ? ? Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ? ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ? StopIteration

What about

    foo = iter('')

Then there is the interesting

    foo = iter(int, 0)

:)

--
Arnaud


From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb 18 18:50:29 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:50:29 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<878waqw1h5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <874olew1bu.fsf@castleamber.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>
>> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? ? def print_numbers()
>>> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
>>> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
>>> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
>>> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
>>> ? ? ? ? }
>>> ? ? end
>>>
>>
>> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
>> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
>> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
>> not following Lisp in that regard.
>>
>> for n in range(1,6):
>
>                    ^ should be 7
>
> But for the rest, I agree with you. I can read Steve's version, but even
> to an experienced Perl programmer that looks quite noisy :-)

Oh, wait, it's Ruby :-D.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From jjposner at optimum.net  Thu Feb 18 18:57:10 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:57:10 -0500
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7DD3D6.9030403@optimum.net>

On 2/18/2010 12:28 PM, mk wrote:
>
> Sorry to bother everyone again, but I have this problem bugging me:
>
> #!/usr/bin/python -i
>
> class Foo(object):
>
> def nostat(self,val):
> print val
>
> nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__
>
> @staticmethod
> def nostatget(*args, **kwargs):
> print 'args:', args, 'kwargs:', kwargs
> nostat.__orig_get__(*args, **kwargs)
>
> nostat.__get__ = nostatget
> setattr(nostat,'__get__',nostatget)
>
>
> f = Foo()
>
> f.nostat('a')
>
> print f.nostat.__get__ is f.nostat.__orig_get__
>
>
> This produces:
>
> a
> False
>
> I expected to see 'nostatget' output: nostat.__get__ = nostatget
> obviously failed to replace this function's __get__ method.

I don't quite understand the above sentence, so I'm assuming that you 
wanted the final "is" test to be "True" instead of "False".

It looks like you've replaced ...

  (A) the original __get__() method

... with ...

  (B) a new method that *calls* the original __get__() method

So why should you expect (A) and (B) to be the same object?

>
> The question is why? Isn't __get__ a normal attribute of a function nostat?
>
> This is made so much weirder that nostat.__get__ is no longer original
> __get__, so it looks like it should have been replaced, but if so, why
> nostatget doesn't get called?
>
> Regards,
> mk
>
>
>

-John


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 18 19:08:25 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:08:25 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlkkpl$2k5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/18/2010 5:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> This has to be a stupid question, but :)
>
> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
> "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
> generalized system.
>
> The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
>
>      def gen():
>          # do my one-time processing here
>
>          return
>          yield
>
> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly. I
> tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of course that didn't work.

Did you try

def gen():
   <stuff>
   if 0: yield

?
tjr



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Feb 18 19:10:31 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:10:31 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] "Sounding" Off, IDLE (Win7)
Message-ID: <hlkktt$nv2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

In Win7 IDLE, when I type in something with a syntax problem, a bell 
rings. How do I stop that? I've looked at Control Panel Sounds, but 
don't see anything of apparent use.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 19:12:10 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:12:10 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlkl0o$4nb$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 17:33 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>>> The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
>>>
>>>       def gen():
>>>           # do my one-time processing here
>>>
>>>           return
>>>           yield
>>>
>>> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch
>>> slightly. I tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of
>>> course that didn't work.
>
> No need to define functions or classes; let a generator expression take
> care of it for you::
>
>      >>>  foo = (x for x in list())
>      >>>  foo.next()
>      Traceback (most recent call last):
>        File "<stdin>", line 1, in<module>
>      StopIteration

He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that executes some 
given side-effect-producing code then immediately raises the StopIteration.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 19:12:10 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:12:10 -0000
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2746.1266531087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8clikria8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:11:24 -0000, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>>   On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
>> designers of Intel's Nelahem core.  The four-core, eight thread
>> version is out now.  The six-core, twelve thread version is working;
>> the speaker has one in his lab.  The eight-core, sixteen thread version
>> is some months away.  This isn't an expensive CPU; this is Intel's
>> "converged" mainstream product.  (Although there will be a whole range
>> of "economy" and "performance" versions, all with the same core but
>> with some stuff turned off.)
>>
>>   Python isn't ready for this.  Not with the GIL.
>
> Is any language, save perhaps Erlang, really ready for it?

occam :-)


-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Thu Feb 18 19:19:32 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:19:32 +1100
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
In-Reply-To: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1266538772.3062.12.camel@rambutan>

On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> example, via HTTP/HTTPS).   Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.).  What would
> be the best way to go about doing this?


I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
you might find it useful:

  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky

Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).


  Cheers,

     Ryan

-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 19:20:49 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:20:49 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlklh1$6eq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 17:36 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com
> <mailto:robert.kern at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     class once(object):
>         def __init__(self, func, *args, **kwds):
>             self.func = func
>             self.args = args
>             self.kwds = kwds
>
>         def __iter__(self):
>             return self
>
>         def next(self):
>             self.func(*self.args, **self.kwds)
>             raise StopIteration()
>
>
> Hmm, yeah. I'd probably tweak it into a decorator and name it
> sideeffect_only or something, but yeah, that's the right approach at least.

Well, with a decorator, you could even use the cringeworthy return/yield syntax 
while keeping it hidden from your users (not to mention reducing the amount of 
boilerplate people need to write).


from functools import wraps

def sideeffect_only(func):
     @wraps(func)
     def wrapper(*args, **kwds):
         func(*args, **kwds)
         # Some helpful comment about why there is a return/yield.
         return
         yield
     return wrapper


But you can also write one where the wrapper() returns a once() instance. It 
might be useful to use the once class instead of a generator such that you can 
write code that distinguishes side-effect only iterators from other iterators in 
your system. It might be useful for debugging if nothing else.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 19:26:59 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:26:59 -0000
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9fc69505-3224-4aa9-9357-2abb0af4abd2@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8cl69s8a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:52:29 -0000, nn <pruebauno at latinmail.com> wrote:

> Wes James wrote:
>> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
>> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
>> "['a','b']"
>>
>> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return  
>> []
>>
>> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
>>
>> a="['a','b']"
>>
>> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
>>
>> returns
>>
>> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
>>
>> when I want it to return ['a','b'].
>>
>> How can I do this?
>>
>> thx,
>>
>> -wes
>
>
> I am surprised nobody gave you the simple answer yet that may even
> work for your situation:
>
> b=a[2:-2].split("','")

Because it's really *very* not robust.  "Harmless" whitespace defeats it  
for starters, and that's one of the most likely things to vary between  
example data and reality.  If you trust your data to be well-formed enough  
for this to work, you might as well use eval() instead.  If you don't,  
parsing is the only sensible answer.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From anfedorov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 19:30:40 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:30:40 -0500
Subject: Bypassing properties on an object (also with __slots__?)
Message-ID: <7659cab31002181630j7e7ebdbdw1110b859a587d568@mail.gmail.com>

Two questions:

1 - is it documented that o.__dict__[attr] is a reliable way to bypass
property methods?
2 - can one bypass a property method if the class has __slots__?

Reason: I have a couple of different flavors of request objects which I need
to make lazily conform to a standard interface. As a simplified example,

a_foo_request = { 'ip': '1.2.3.4' }
a_bar_request = { 'my-ip': b'\x01\x02\x03\x04' }


My solution is to create two classes:

class FooRequest(dict):
    @property
    def ip(self):
        return self['ip']

class BarRequest(dict):
    @property
    def ip(self):
        return "%i.%i.%i.%i" % struct.unpack("4B", self['my-ip'])


Then:

FooRequest(a_foo_request).ip == '1.2.3.4'

# and
req = BarRequest(a_bar_request)
req.ip == '1.2.3.4'

But some of these getters are CPU-intensive, and since the extended objects
always remain immutable, I memoize them in req.__dict__, like:

class BarRequest(dict):
    @property
    def ip(self):
        if 'ip' in self.__dict__:
            return self.__dict__['ip']
        else:
            self.__dict__['ip'] = "%i.%i.%i.%i" % struct.unpack("4B",
self['my-ip'])
            return self.__dict__['ip']


Which works as intended, and (I think) can be made prettier with a custom
constant_property decorator. So...

Question 0: Is there an obvious better way of achieving this functionality?
Question 1: Is it safe to rely on __dict__ to bypass properties this way?
Question 2: I'd like to use __slots__, but I can't seem to find a way to
stop the property method from recursing. Is there one?

Cheers,
Andrey
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 19:32:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 00:32:03 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:30:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

>  > If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then
>  > surely there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the
>  > comment?
> 
> Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it
> hits the return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the
> iterator, the code elided by the comment executes, then the return is
> hit, a StopIteration exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.

I don't understand why you care about having *any* code before the 
StopIteration. That's like:

def empty():
    for x in range(1000):
        pass # Spin wheels uselessly
    return
    yield


What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?



-- 
Steven


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Feb 18 19:33:00 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:33:00 +1100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> What about
>     foo = iter('')

That doesn't return a generator.

    >>> foo = iter('')
    >>> foo
    <listiterator object at 0xf7cd3ed0>

Whether the OP needs to create a generator, or just any iterable type,
isn't clear.


Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that
> executes some given side-effect-producing code then immediately raises
> the StopIteration.

Ah, hm. That's a rather perverse use case, but I'm sure the OP has their
reasons. It's going to confuse a reader who isn't expecting it, no
matter how simply it's done.

So, I think the best answer is what has already been suggested, but that
it's perverse enough that the hack *needs* a comment to say why it's
being done.

    def make_empty_generator_with_side_effect():
        """ Make a generator that does important work, but is empty. """

        # Do the important work here.
        spam = object()

        # Make this function return an empty generator.
        if False: yield

-- 
 \              ?When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir |
  `\                                              cevinpl.? ?Anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 19:36:00 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 00:36:00 GMT
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2737.1266523770.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ddcf0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:09:28 -0500, python wrote:

> That's my concern - can other applications really read my temp files
> created with tempfile.TemporaryFile( delete=True )?


>>> import tempfile
>>> x = tempfile.TemporaryFile(delete=True)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: TemporaryFile() got an unexpected keyword argument 'delete'


The Fine Manual has good information about the security of the various 
calls:

http://docs.python.org/library/tempfile.html

tempfile.TemporaryFile(...)
    Return a file-like object that can be used as a temporary 
    storage area. ... your code should not rely on a temporary file
    created using this function having or not having a visible name 
    in the file system. ...

tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile(...)
    This function operates exactly as TemporaryFile() does, except 
    that the file is guaranteed to have a visible name in the file 
    system ... Whether the name can be used to open the file a 
    second time, while the named temporary file is still open, varies
    across platforms... 


> I don't think so because:
> 
> 1. These files appear to be exclusively locked by my process, eg. no
> other processes can read or write to these temp files except the process
> that created these files.

Exclusive locks are advisory, not mandatory, on some operating systems, 
so you can't rely on it. Recent versions of Windows have an interface to 
allow "backup software" to read files opened in exclusive mode, and I 
believe that the kernel can read *and write* to open files (although I 
welcome correction).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_locking

And naturally, if your system is compromised with a root kit, then you 
can't trust *anything*, including file locks. But nobody expects an 
application to take responsibility for working securely in the face of a 
root kit :)


> 2. As soon as my process terminates (voluntarily or involuntarily), the
> temp file gets deleted.
> 
> But I want to make sure.


I think the best practice is platform-dependent:


if os.name = "posix":  # Unix, Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, ... 
    tmpfile = tempfile.TemporaryFile
    delete = None
elif os.name in ["nt", "ce"]:  # Windows NT, XP, 2000, CE, ...
    tmpfile = tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile
    delete = True
else:
    # FIXME What to do for Mac, OS/2, RiscOS, Java?
    tmpfile = tempfile.TemporaryFile
    delete = None
if delete is not None:
    f = tmpfile(*args, delete=delete)
else:
    f = tmpfile(*args)
    


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 19:36:10 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 00:36:10 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2756.1266538362.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ddcfa$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:12:10 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

> He wants an iterator that executes some given side-effect-producing code
> then immediately raises the StopIteration.

Ah, that's the bit I missed!

Yewww. Programming by side-effect... I hope the original poster has a 
good reason for such a thing.


-- 
Steven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 20:11:19 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:11:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <004104b2-519d-4d03-ba0f-c17e115e416b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:04?pm, "sjdevn... at yahoo.com" <sjdevn... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> You could do it without intermediate names or lambdas in Python as:
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? for i in [ cube for (square, cube) in
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[(n*n, n*n*n) for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if square!=25 and cube!=64 ]:
> ? ? ? ? print i
>
> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> cube!=64 ]
> ? ? for f in filtered:
> ? ? ? ? print f

Step away from the keyboard! This is a programmer's arrest!

There are laws around here, laws that we can't allow to be broken.
You've just broken 12 of them. You think the laws don't apply to you,
huh, punk? HUH?

I'm sentencing you to three months HARD LABOR in Ruby for that code
you just wrote. And if you think it's too harsh, then I'll sentence
you to NINE MONTHS PHP and see how you feel about that!

;-)


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 20:11:52 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:11:52 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8cn92xda8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:50:14 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
> network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
> use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
> couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.

By the looks of it, pyffmpeg may have some support for streamed input.  If  
not, you might be able to put something together from tstools  
(http://developer.berlios.de/projects/tstools/) -- it's not what the tools  
were intended for, but there are Python bindings to the libraries that  
might help depending on exactly how you are streaming your video.   
Unfortunately the documentation is sparse to put it mildly, and pyffmpeg  
makes tstools look positively informative about how you're supposed to use  
it.


-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 20:19:32 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:19:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b538d6ee-f0f0-44e3-a81d-81612d89347c@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 1:28?am, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 1:57?pm, Steven D'Aprano
>
>
>
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > > On Feb 17, 10:48?pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Hi everyone,
>
> > >> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
> > >> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
> > >> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
> > >> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
> > >> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
> > >> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
> > >> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
> > >> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
> > >> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
> > >> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
> > >> I can do this ?
>
> > >> Application
> > >> ========
> > >> import sdk
> > >> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
> > >> ImportError)
>
> > >> SDK
> > >> ====
> > >> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this
>
> > > SDK
> > > ===
> > > import socket
>
> > > App
> > > ===
> > > import SDK
> > > import sys
> > > socket = sys.modules['socket']
>
> > I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
> > layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
> > prohibition in the SDK layer.
>
> > In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>
> > if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
> > ? ? prohibit
> > else
> > ? ? allow
>
> > I could be wrong of course.
>
>
> @Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??
>

My point was that it's really pointless to try to enforce any such
thing on the program or programmer. There are ways around it. If you
don't want them to play with socket, write in the documentation:
"Don't play with the 'socket' module."

If you want to prevent them from touching sockets at all, it's time to
rethink your design. You may want to have a talk with Bruce Schneier,
or at least read what he's written if you still think you need to
somehow shut down a part of the system to its users.

Oftentimes, programmers think they need to have control over what
other people write, forgetting that they are able to do what they do
due to the freedoms afforded them. They also forget that they are not
in control of what other programmers do, anymore than a grocery store
who refuses to stock a certain product can prevent people from getting
that product.

Write your code to expand freedoms, not limit them. If your design
depends on limiting the choices of your users, you have done something
wrong.


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Feb 18 20:28:49 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:28:49 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:30:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
> 
>>  > If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then
>>  > surely there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the
>>  > comment?
>> 
>> Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it
>> hits the return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the
>> iterator, the code elided by the comment executes, then the return is
>> hit, a StopIteration exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.
> 
> I don't understand why you care about having *any* code before the
> StopIteration. That's like:
> 
> def empty():
>     for x in range(1000):
>         pass # Spin wheels uselessly
>     return
>     yield
> 
> 
> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?

I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop like

for it in list_of_iterables:
    for x in it:
        do_this_or_that (x)

where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code into the 
process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.

	Mel.




From rantingrick at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 22:26:51 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "Sounding" Off, IDLE (Win7)
References: <hlkktt$nv2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <2a3bacb8-b324-4189-a98a-d35b70358b48@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 6:10?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> In Win7 IDLE, when I type in something with a syntax problem, a bell
> rings. How do I stop that? I've looked at Control Panel Sounds, but
> don't see anything of apparent use.

Monkey Patch Said: """ Turn off your speakers"""


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 22:43:14 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:43:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7dc6a2$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a7b428a4-fad7-4d41-9cfc-256260b8e89c@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:00?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> [...]
> You wouldn't name your functions:
>
> f01, f02, f03, f04, ... f99
>

Exactly.

> (say), unless you were trying to deliberately obfuscate your code.
> Anonymous functions are even more obfuscated than that. You can get away
> with it so long as you're only dealing with a few, in well-defined
> placed, but you wouldn't want to use them all over the place.
>

I have contributed to the confusion of this discussion by talking
about "anonymous functions," when the original context was "anonymous
blocks."  As I mentioned in an earlier response, most anonymous blocks
in Ruby are placed within outer functions, so they're not that hard to
locate in a traceback that provides only function names.  And, of
course, it is often the case that you host Ruby code on your own web
server, or that you distribute Ruby code without compressing it, in
which case you get a sane traceback that provides line numbers.

You actually use anonymous blocks in your own code, in a few, well-
defined places (generally loops).

These excerpts are taken from obfuscate.py:

            quotient = a//mm
            a, mm = mm, a%mm
            xx, x = x - quotient*xx, xx
            yy, y = y - quotient*yy, yy


            rail = it.next()  # The rail we add to.
            assert 0 <= rail < rails
            fence[rail].append(c)


                # Save one non-chaff character.
                buffer.append(msg.next())
                # And toss away more chaff.
                n = self.hash(key) % factor
                key = self.mod_key(key)
                self.get_chars(n, msg)


            # Careful here! Not all classes have a __dict__!
            adict = getattr(obj, '__dict__', {})
            for name, attr in adict.items():
                if inspect.ismethoddescriptor(attr):
                    d[nm + '.' + name] = attr.__get__(obj)

If any of the above code were to fail on a customer site, you'd
probably want to get line numbers in a traceback.  I'm guessing you
probably don't distribute your code in compressed form, and you
probably take care to make sure it works right in the first place, and
you probably have source control to help you pull up old versions of
your code.  I notice that you even have a __version__ identifier in
your source code, which users of your library could capture in their
tracebacks.  In other words, you probably use mostly the same
practices that I use, except that we seem to differ on the utility or
expressiveness or Ruby blocks, or maybe we're arguing at cross
purposes.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 18 22:48:21 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:48:21 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hll1no$vfu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
[...]
> There really ought to be a special level of Hell for people who misuse 
> "strawman" to mean "a weak or invalid argument" instead of what it 
> actually means, which is a weak or invalid argument NOT HELD by your 
> opponent, which you (generic you) made up specifically for the sake of 
> shooting down.
> 
> If you actually read what Duncan says, he prefixes his response with:
> 
> "Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors".
> 
> Duncan's post is an argument against relying on line numbers as your 
> main, or only, source of information about the location of bugs in 
> Javascript.
> 
> In fact, this post is remarkable for the sheer number of actual strawman 
> arguments that you (Steve Howell) use:
> 
> 
>> Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> 
> Strawman #1: nobody said that shipping buggy code was a good idea, with 
> or without named functions. But shipping buggy code *happens*, no matter 
> how careful you are, so you need to expect bug reports back from users.
> 
> (And they will be *hard to find* bugs, because if they were easy to find 
> you would have found them in your own testing before shipping.)
> 
> 
>> Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> 
> Strawman #2: nobody said that obscuring line numbers was a good idea. But 
> apparently compressing Javascript is valuable for other reasons, and 
> obscuring the line numbers is the side-effect of doing so. 
> 
> And even knowing the line numbers is not necessarily useful, because many 
> bugs aren't due to the line that raises the stack trace. Just because you 
> know the line which failed doesn't mean you know how to fix the bug.
> 
> 
>> Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
>> idea, even with named functions.
> 
> Strawman #3: nobody said that staying on older versions is a good idea. 
> But sometimes it happens whether you like it or not.
> 
> (Although I'd like to point out that from the end user's perspective, 
> sometimes we don't want your stinkin' new version with all the anti-
> features and pessimations and will stick to the old version for as long 
> as possible. If you don't like it, then think a bit harder before adding 
> anti-features like fragile, easily-corrupted databases which perform 
> really, really badly when your home directory is mounted over the 
> network. I'm talking to you, Firefox developers.)
> 
> And it doesn't really matter: you either end-of-life the old version, in 
> which case you don't need to do anything about the bug report except say 
> "upgrade", or you decide to continue support, in which case it doesn't 
> matter whether the bug is reported for an old version or the latest 
> version, you still need to fix it.
> 
> 
>> Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
>> running is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> 
> Strawman #4. 
> 
> See the pattern? When you attack a position the other guy hasn't taken, 
> that's a strawman. When you make a weak argument, it's just a weak 
> argument.
> 
Next week: Lesson 2 - Ad Hominem Attacks

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 18 22:49:16 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:49:16 -0500
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <c07e3c71002181444w3bdbd714kd62ef4e3625b66af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<c07e3c71002181444w3bdbd714kd62ef4e3625b66af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hll1pd$vfu$2@ger.gmane.org>

Brendon Wickham wrote:
> On 19 February 2010 08:07, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>>> Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
>>> make a few comments though.
>> This might be a Python group, but threads often drift way off topic, which
>> added to the language itself make this a great group to read.  If you don't
>> like the way a thread goes, you can always skip it.
> 
> 
> Perhaps...but he answered the question very well and with great, IMO, patience.

+1
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 18 22:52:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:52:13 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hll1uv$vfu$3@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com
> <mailto:robert.kern at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     class once(object):
>        def __init__(self, func, *args, **kwds):
>            self.func = func
>            self.args = args
>            self.kwds = kwds
> 
>        def __iter__(self):
>            return self
> 
>        def next(self):
>            self.func(*self.args, **self.kwds)
>            raise StopIteration()
> 
> 
> Hmm, yeah. I'd probably tweak it into a decorator and name it
> sideeffect_only or something, but yeah, that's the right approach at least.
> 
> My motivation is clarity, I can just see a colleague a year from now
> asking me, "... what the hell is return / yield?" and although this is
> more expensive, its less clear to me.
> 
> Thanks.
> --S
> 
So add a comment to the yield statement so it reads

    yield # force empty generator

I realise that Jacob Kaplan-Moss calls comments in the code "lies", but
the reader really only needs a small clue.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 22:57:35 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:04?pm, "sjdevn... at yahoo.com" <sjdevn... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 11:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ? ? def print_numbers()
> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> > ? ? ? ? }
> > ? ? end
>
> > IMHO there is no reason that I should have to name the content of each
> > of those four blocks of code, nor should I have to introduce the
> > "lambda" keyword.
>
> You could do it without intermediate names or lambdas in Python as:
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? for i in [ cube for (square, cube) in
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[(n*n, n*n*n) for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if square!=25 and cube!=64 ]:
> ? ? ? ? print i


The problem with list comprehensions is that they read kind of out of
order.  On line 2 you are doing the first operation, then on line 3
you are filtering, then on line 1 your are selecting, then on line 4
you are printing.

For such a small example, your code is still quite readable.

> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> cube!=64 ]
> ? ? for f in filtered:
> ? ? ? ? print f

The names you give to the intermediate results here are
terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.

In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
something like this:

   departments
   departments_in_new_york
   departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
   employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
   names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 18 22:57:53 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:57:53 +0000
Subject: "Sounding" Off, IDLE (Win7)
In-Reply-To: <2a3bacb8-b324-4189-a98a-d35b70358b48@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <hlkktt$nv2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2a3bacb8-b324-4189-a98a-d35b70358b48@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7E0C41.5000405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

rantingrick wrote:
> On Feb 18, 6:10 pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
>> In Win7 IDLE, when I type in something with a syntax problem, a bell
>> rings. How do I stop that? I've looked at Control Panel Sounds, but
>> don't see anything of apparent use.
> 
> Monkey Patch Said: """ Turn off your speakers"""

But what if you like to listen to music while programming?

Look in the folder <pythonfolder>\Lib\idlelib for a file called 
"config-extensions.def". In it is a line:

     bell=1

Change that to:

     bell=0

Save the file and restart IDLE.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 18 22:58:21 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:58:21 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> writes:

>> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
>> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>>
>> def print_numbers():
>> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
>> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
>> cube!=64 ]
>> ? ? for f in filtered:
>> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.

But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
lists in memory.  I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.

> In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> something like this:
>
>    departments
>    departments_in_new_york
>    departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle

http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.10.4/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html#generalised-list-comprehensions

might be of interest.  Maybe Ruby and/or Python could grow something similar.


From python at bdurham.com  Thu Feb 18 23:19:41 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:19:41 -0500
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
In-Reply-To: <4b7ddcf0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com><4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com><mailman.2737.1266523770.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddcf0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1266553181.26400.1360768933@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Steven,

Thank you very much for your wonderful reply!! 

I had read the Fine Manual, but as you pointed out the documentation
only mentions visibility of file names.

> Exclusive locks are advisory, not mandatory, on some operating systems, so you can't rely on it. 

That comment and your list of OS specific behaviors were EXACTLY the
type of information I was looking for.

Thanks again!
Malcolm



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 23:27:06 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:27:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <e37a162b-f5c6-4d04-9b3c-a79130f2986a@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 10:58?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> >> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> >> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> >> def print_numbers():
> >> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> >> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> >> cube!=64 ]
> >> ? ? for f in filtered:
> >> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> > The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> > terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
> lists in memory. ?I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
> Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.

I don't know how Ruby works, either.  If it's using constant memory,
switching the Python to generator comprehensions (and getting constant
memory usage) is simply a matter of turning square brackets into
parentheses:

def print_numbers():
    tuples = ((n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6))
    filtered = ( cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
                 cube!=64 )
    for f in filtered:
        print f

Replace (1,2,3,4,5,6) with xrange(100000000) and memory usage still
stays constant.

Though for this particular example, I prefer a strict looping solution
akin to what Jonathan Gardner had upthread:

for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6):
    square = n*n
    cube = n*n*n
    if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
    print cube

> > In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> > something like this:
>
> > ? ?departments
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle

I don't think the assertion that the names would be ridiculously long
is accurate, either.

Something like:

departments = blah
ny_depts = blah(departments)
non_bonus_depts = blah(ny_depts)
non_bonus_employees = blah(non_bonus_depts)
employee_names = blah(non_bonus_employees)

If the code is at all well-structured, it'll be just as obvious from
the context that each list/generator/whatever is building from the
previous one as it is in the anonymous block case.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 23:32:08 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:19?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > example, via HTTP/HTTPS). ? Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.). ?What would
> > be the best way to go about doing this?
>
> I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> you might find it useful:
>
> ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
>
> Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
> come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
> py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).
>
> ? Cheers,
>
> ? ? ?Ryan


This looks pretty interesting and useful.

Just to help me understand it a bit more:  what is it that users will
download from some web page in order to initially get the py2exe'd app
on their system?  Is it "really" an "esky", with the app's .exe file
inside it (but the esky is named the same as the app)?  And then when
they want to update, the app's code calls the esky class to do the
work of swapping out the appropriate .exe file?  Something like this?
Sorry if I am confused as to how this works.

Would this also work if one used InnoSetup to install the exe on the
user's system?

Thanks,
Che



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 23:46:04 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:46:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 2:49?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ? ? def print_numbers()
> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> > ? ? ? ? }
> > ? ? end
>
> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
> not following Lisp in that regard.
>
> for n in range(1,6):
> ? ? square = n*n
> ? ? cube = n*n*n
> ? ? if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
> ? ? print cube

There's definitely a cognitive dissonance between imperative
programming and functional programming.  It's hard for programmers
used to programming in an imperative style to appreciate a functional
approach, because functional solutions often read "upside down" in the
actual source code and common algebraic notation:

    def compute_squares_and_cubes(lst):
        return [(n * n, n * n * n) for n in lst]

    def reject_bad_values(lst):
        return [(square, cube) for (square, cube) \
            in lst if not (square == 25 or cube == 64)]

    def cubes_only(lst):
        return [cube for square, cube in lst]

    def print_results(lst):
        # 1. compute_squares_and_cubes
        # 2. reject_bad_values
        # 3. take cubes_only
        # 4. print values
        for item in \
            cubes_only( # 3
                reject_bad_values( # 2
                    compute_squares_and_cubes(lst))): # 1
            print item # 4

You can, of course, restore the natural order of operations to read
top-down with appropriate use of intermediate locals:

    def print_results(lst):
        lst2 = compute_squares_and_cubes(lst)
        lst3 = reject_bad_values(lst2)
        lst4 = cubes_only(lst3)
        for item in lst4:
            print item



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 23:57:47 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:57:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <96c65bac-2bc1-4ae0-8349-45ec0c3404d9@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:58?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> >> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> >> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> >> def print_numbers():
> >> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> >> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> >> cube!=64 ]
> >> ? ? for f in filtered:
> >> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> > The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> > terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
> lists in memory. ?I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
> Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.
>

That's a really good question.  I don't know the answer.  My hunch is
that you could implement generators using Ruby syntax, but it's
probably not implemented that way.

The fact that Python allows you to turn the intermediate results into
generator expressions is a very powerful feature, of course.

> > In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> > something like this:
>
> > ? ?departments
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>
> http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.10.4/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html...
>
> might be of interest. ?Maybe Ruby and/or Python could grow something similar.

Can you elaborate?



From python at bdurham.com  Fri Feb 19 00:02:44 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:02:44 -0500
Subject: Using compileall to create -OO type .pyo files
Message-ID: <1266555764.31891.1360772585@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I've read the documentation on compileall and tried using this
module directly.

Nowhere can I find how to specify to compileall that it should
create .pyo vs. .pyc files.

Goal: I would like to use the compileall.compile_dir() method to
generate -OO type .pyo files as part of a larger Python build
script.
Thanks,
Malcolm
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From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 00:05:04 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<e37a162b-f5c6-4d04-9b3c-a79130f2986a@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d6a6c19f-ec2c-4cd8-8c8d-d33c7419365e@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 8:27?pm, "sjdevn... at yahoo.com" <sjdevn... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 10:58?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
 > Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> > >> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> > >> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> > >> def print_numbers():
> > >> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> > >> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> > >> cube!=64 ]
> > >> ? ? for f in filtered:
> > >> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> > > The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> > > terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> > But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
> > lists in memory. ?I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
> > Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.
>
> I don't know how Ruby works, either. ?If it's using constant memory,
> switching the Python to generator comprehensions (and getting constant
> memory usage) is simply a matter of turning square brackets into
> parentheses:
>
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? tuples = ((n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6))
> ? ? filtered = ( cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?cube!=64 )
> ? ? for f in filtered:
> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> Replace (1,2,3,4,5,6) with xrange(100000000) and memory usage still
> stays constant.
>
> Though for this particular example, I prefer a strict looping solution
> akin to what Jonathan Gardner had upthread:
>
> for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6):
> ? ? square = n*n
> ? ? cube = n*n*n
> ? ? if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
> ? ? print cube
>
> > > In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> > > something like this:
>
> > > ? ?departments
> > > ? ?departments_in_new_york
> > > ? ?departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > > ? ?employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > > ? ?names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>
> I don't think the assertion that the names would be ridiculously long
> is accurate, either.
>
> Something like:
>
> departments = blah
> ny_depts = blah(departments)
> non_bonus_depts = blah(ny_depts)
> non_bonus_employees = blah(non_bonus_depts)
> employee_names = blah(non_bonus_employees)
>
> If the code is at all well-structured, it'll be just as obvious from
> the context that each list/generator/whatever is building from the
> previous one as it is in the anonymous block case.

I agree that the names don't have to be as ridiculously long as my
examples, but using intermediate locals forces you to come up with
consistent abbreviations between adjacent lines, which adds to the
maintenance burden.  When the requirements change so that bonuses
apply to NY and PA departments, you would have to change three places
in the code instead of one.

To the extent that each of your transformations were named functions,
you'd need to maintain the names there as well (something more
descriptive than "blah").




From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Feb 19 00:23:30 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:23:30 +1300
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7c22c8$0$1651$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<eae285401002170344q724eecf9kaca550a089a91339@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b7c22c8$0$1651$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7u6kv0F8fiU1@mid.individual.net>

John Nagle wrote:

>    One way to implement locking is something like this:
> 
>    Mutable objects have a reference count field, a lock field,
> and an "owner" field.  Initially, the owner of an object is its thread.
> If an object's only reference is a field of a synchronized object, the
> owner is the synchronized object.

The trouble with that is that there will hardly ever be
"only one reference" to any object that you do anything
with, even just looking at it, because temporary references
come and go as the interpreter goes about its business.

A simple demonstration of this:

Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Apr  8 2007, 22:22:18)
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1809)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> foo = (1, 2, 3)
 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.getrefcount(foo)
2

Even though you might think that there is only
one reference to foo, the very act of passing it
as a parameter to getrefcount() causes another
reference to come into existence temporarily.

-- 
Greg


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Feb 19 00:26:52 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:26:52 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<96c65bac-2bc1-4ae0-8349-45ec0c3404d9@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x1vghkd7n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> writes:
>> http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.10.4/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html...
>> might be of interest. ?Maybe Ruby and/or Python could grow something similar.
> Can you elaborate?

List comprehensions are a Python feature you're probably familiar with,
and I think Ruby has something like them too.  They originally came from
Haskell.  GHC (the main Haskell implementation) now supports an extended
list comprehension syntax with SQL-like features.  I haven't used it
much yet, but here's an example from a poker ranking program
(http://www.rubyquiz.com/quiz24.html) that I did as a Haskell exercise:

  let (winners:others) = 
        [zip c ls | ls <- lines cs
                , let {h = mkHand ls; c=classify h}
                , then group by c
                , then sortWith by Down c]

It's reasonably evocative and doing the same thing with the older
syntax would have been a big mess.  "Down" basically means sort
in reverse order.


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 00:35:48 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:35:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <60ce8051-8bda-470b-8943-ce87dad9e8eb@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:58?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> >> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> >> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> >> def print_numbers():
> >> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> >> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> >> cube!=64 ]
> >> ? ? for f in filtered:
> >> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> > The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> > terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
> lists in memory. ?I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
> Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.
>

Running the following code would probably answer your question.  At
least in the case of Array.map and Array.reject, under my version of
Ruby, each block transforms the entire array before passing control to
the next block.

    def print_numbers()
        [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
            puts 'first block', n
            [n * n, n * n * n]
        }.reject { |square, cube|
            puts 'reject', square
            square == 25 || cube == 64
        }.map { |square, cube|
            cube
        }.each { |cube|
            puts cube
        }
    end

    print_numbers()

But I'm running only version 1.8.7.  Version 1.9 of Ruby apparently
introduced something more akin to generators and Unix pipelines:

http://pragdave.blogs.pragprog.com/pragdave/2007/12/pipelines-using.html

I haven't tried them myself.




From kwmsmith at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 00:37:59 2010
From: kwmsmith at gmail.com (Kurt Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:37:59 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c266a7931002182137r38cbd421y4d30a39a6e2e6786@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:49?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> wrote:
>> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > ? ? def print_numbers()
>> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
>> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
>> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
>> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
>> > ? ? ? ? }
>> > ? ? end
>>
>> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
>> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
>> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
>> not following Lisp in that regard.
>>
>> for n in range(1,6):
>> ? ? square = n*n
>> ? ? cube = n*n*n
>> ? ? if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
>> ? ? print cube
>
> There's definitely a cognitive dissonance between imperative
> programming and functional programming. ?It's hard for programmers
> used to programming in an imperative style to appreciate a functional
> approach, because functional solutions often read "upside down" in the
> actual source code and common algebraic notation:
>
> ? ?def compute_squares_and_cubes(lst):
> ? ? ? ?return [(n * n, n * n * n) for n in lst]
>
> ? ?def reject_bad_values(lst):
> ? ? ? ?return [(square, cube) for (square, cube) \
> ? ? ? ? ? ?in lst if not (square == 25 or cube == 64)]
>
> ? ?def cubes_only(lst):
> ? ? ? ?return [cube for square, cube in lst]
>
> ? ?def print_results(lst):
> ? ? ? ?# 1. compute_squares_and_cubes
> ? ? ? ?# 2. reject_bad_values
> ? ? ? ?# 3. take cubes_only
> ? ? ? ?# 4. print values
> ? ? ? ?for item in \
> ? ? ? ? ? ?cubes_only( # 3
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?reject_bad_values( # 2
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?compute_squares_and_cubes(lst))): # 1
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print item # 4
>
> You can, of course, restore the natural order of operations to read
> top-down with appropriate use of intermediate locals:
>
> ? ?def print_results(lst):
> ? ? ? ?lst2 = compute_squares_and_cubes(lst)
> ? ? ? ?lst3 = reject_bad_values(lst2)
> ? ? ? ?lst4 = cubes_only(lst3)
> ? ? ? ?for item in lst4:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print item
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

# sent the original to the wrong place -- resending to python-list.

Somewhat off topic, but only somewhat:  you could use coroutines to
get a pipeline effect.

#--------------8<-----------------------------
# Shamelessly lifted from David Beazley's
#  http://www.dabeaz.com/coroutines/

def coroutine(co):
   def _inner(*args, **kwargs):
       gen = co(*args, **kwargs)
       gen.next()
       return gen
   return _inner

def squares_and_cubes(lst, target):
   for n in lst:
       target.send((n * n, n * n * n))

@coroutine
def reject_bad_values(target):
   while True:
       square, cube = (yield)
       if not (square == 25 or cube == 64):
           target.send((square, cube))

@coroutine
def cubes_only(target):
   while True:
       square, cube = (yield)
       target.send(cube)

@coroutine
def print_results():
   while True:
       print (yield)

squares_and_cubes(range(10),
       reject_bad_values(
           cubes_only(
               print_results()
               )
           )
       )
#--------------8<-----------------------------


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 00:41:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 05:41:31 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2760.1266551381.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7e248b$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:48:21 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Next week: Lesson 2 - Ad Hominem Attacks

I wouldn't pay any attention to Steve, all Stevens are notorious liars.

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 00:46:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 05:46:31 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7e25b7$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:35 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> The names you give to the intermediate results here are terse--"tuples"
> and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
> 
> In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> something like this:
> 
>    departments
>    departments_in_new_york
>    departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle

Those last two could be written more concisely as:

serfs_in_new_york
names_of_serfs_in_new_york_as_if_we_cared

But seriously... if you have a variable called "departments_in_new_york", 
presumably you also have variables called "departments_in_washington", 
"departments_in_los_angeles", "departments_in_houston", 
"departments_in_walla_walla", and so forth. If so, this is a good sign 
that you are doing it wrong and you need to rethink your algorithm.



-- 
Steven


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 00:50:58 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:50:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2760.1266551381.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4b7e248b$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <322eb626-ef2a-4fc7-8472-850932868f7f@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:48:21 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> > Next week: Lesson 2 - Ad Hominem Attacks
>
> I wouldn't pay any attention to Steve, all Stevens are notorious liars.
>
> --
> Steven

Especially when their last name starts with H.

Cheers,

Steve



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 00:52:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 05:52:03 GMT
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<1266523768.19867.1360705413@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2766.1266557719.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7e2703$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:34:58 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:09:28 -0500, python at bdurham.com declaimed the
> following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> 2. As soon as my process terminates (voluntarily or involuntarily), the
>> temp file gets deleted.
>> 
> 	Which only means the directory entry for it is lost... depending 
on
> the OS, someone creating a new file in "w+" and performing a long seek
> just to write one byte, may now have all those disk sectors your temp
> file had been in -- and can read them at leisure.
> 
> 	Or some file recovery tools might make a file out of the 
sectors...
> 
> 	If you are really worried about the contents becoming visible 
after
> "deletion" you should probably run a wipe operation on the file (write
> random sequence over data; read/verify said random sequence; write new
> random sequence over file; read/verify this sequence; write 1s
> complement of sequence; read/verify that final sequence).


If that is your concern, then you shouldn't be using tempfile, you should 
be using permanent files and wiping them yourself.

I think the OP is more concerned about the sort of security flaw where 
you open a temporary file, and some hostile process hijacks it before 
you're done with it. But once you're done with the file, you probably no 
longer care about the contents.


-- 
Steven


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Feb 19 00:52:20 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:52:20 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7u6ml2Ffd8U1@mid.individual.net>

Steve Howell wrote:

> Python may not support the broadest notion of anonymous functions, but
> it definitely has anonymous blocks.  You can write this in Python:
> 
>     for i in range(10):
>         print i
>         print i * i
>         print i * i * i

There's a clear difference between this and a Ruby block,
however. A "block" in Ruby is implemented by passing a
callable object to a method. There is no callable object
corresponding to the body of a for-loop in Python.

The important thing about Ruby blocks is not that they're
anonymous, but that they're concrete objects that can
be manipulated.

The Ruby approach has the advantage of making it possible
to implement user-defined control structures without
requiring a macro facility. You can't do that in Python.

However, there's something that Python's iterator protocol
makes possible that you can't do with a block-passing
approach. You can have multiple iterators active at once,
and pull values from them as an when required in the
calling code. Ruby's version of the iterator protocol
can't handle that, because once an iterator is started
it retains control until it's finished.

Also, most people who advocate adding some form of
block-passing facility to Python don't seem to have
thought through what would happen if the block contains
any break, continue, return or yield statements.

This issue was looked into in some detail back when there
was consideration of implementing the with-statement
by passing the body as a function. Getting these
statements to behave intuitively inside the body
turned out to be a very thorny problem -- thorny enough
to cause the block-passing idea to be abandoned in
favour of the current implementation.

-- 
Greg


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 01:00:17 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 06:00:17 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like
	Python    to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<7u6ml2Ffd8U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4b7e28f0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:52:20 +1300, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> The Ruby approach has the advantage of making it possible to implement
> user-defined control structures without requiring a macro facility. You
> can't do that in Python.
[...] 
> Also, most people who advocate adding some form of block-passing
> facility to Python don't seem to have thought through what would happen
> if the block contains any break, continue, return or yield statements.

That is the only time I ever wanted blocks: I had a series of functions 
containing for loops that looked something vaguely like this:

for x in sequence:
    code_A
    try:
        something
    except some_exception:
        code_B

where code_B was different in each function, so I wanted to pull it out 
as a code block and do this:


def common_loop(x, block):
    code_A
    try:
        something
    except some_exception:
        block

for x in sequence:
    common_loop(x, block)


The problem was that the blocks contained a continue statement, so I was 
stymied.


-- 
Steven


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 01:07:23 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:07:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7e25b7$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d2a11f55-266c-469d-8d53-57fdcf15f8d0@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:46?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:35 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > The names you give to the intermediate results here are terse--"tuples"
> > and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> > In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> > something like this:
>
> > ? ?departments
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>
> Those last two could be written more concisely as:
>
> serfs_in_new_york
> names_of_serfs_in_new_york_as_if_we_cared
>
> But seriously... if you have a variable called "departments_in_new_york",
> presumably you also have variables called "departments_in_washington",
> "departments_in_los_angeles", "departments_in_houston",
> "departments_in_walla_walla", and so forth. If so, this is a good sign
> that you are doing it wrong and you need to rethink your algorithm.
>

Sure, but it could also be that you're launching a feature that is
only temporarily limited to New York departments, and any investment
in coming up with names for the New York filter function or
intermediate local variables becomes pointless once you go national:

    # version 1
    emps = [
        ['Bob Rich', 'NY', 55],
        ['Alice Serf', 'NY', 30],
        ['Joe Peasant', 'MD', 12],
        ['Mary Pauper', 'CA', 13],
    ]

    emps.select { |name, state, salary|
        salary < 40
    }.select { |name, state, salary|
        # limit bonuses to NY for now...reqs
        # may change!
        state == 'NY'
    }.each { |name, state, salary|
        new_salary = salary * 1.1
        puts "#{name} gets a raise to #{new_salary}!"
    }

    # version 2
    emps = [
        ['Bob Rich', 'NY', 55],
        ['Alice Serf', 'NY', 30],
        ['Joe Peasant', 'MD', 12],
        ['Mary Pauper', 'CA', 13],
    ]

    emps.select { |name, state, salary|
        salary < 40
    }.each { |name, state, salary|
        new_salary = salary * 1.1
        puts "#{name} gets a raise to #{new_salary}!"
    }



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 01:15:20 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:20 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hlla9n$gbr$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 19:28 PM, Mel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:30:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
>>
>>>   >  If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then
>>>   >  surely there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the
>>>   >  comment?
>>>
>>> Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it
>>> hits the return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the
>>> iterator, the code elided by the comment executes, then the return is
>>> hit, a StopIteration exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.
>>
>> I don't understand why you care about having *any* code before the
>> StopIteration. That's like:
>>
>> def empty():
>>      for x in range(1000):
>>          pass # Spin wheels uselessly
>>      return
>>      yield
>>
>>
>> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?
>
> I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop like
>
> for it in list_of_iterables:
>      for x in it:
>          do_this_or_that (x)
>
> where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code into the
> process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.

Yes. That is exactly what the OP said in his original post:

"""
I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On occasion, 
I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really "generators" 
because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a generalized system.
"""

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 01:16:30 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:16:30 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hllabt$gbr$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 18:33 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that
>> executes some given side-effect-producing code then immediately raises
>> the StopIteration.
>
> Ah, hm. That's a rather perverse use case, but I'm sure the OP has their
> reasons.

Which he explained fairly clearly, I thought, in his original post.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 01:21:48 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 06:21:48 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:20 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

>>> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?
>>
>> I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop like
>>
>> for it in list_of_iterables:
>>      for x in it:
>>          do_this_or_that (x)
>>
>> where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code
>> into the process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.
> 
> Yes. That is exactly what the OP said in his original post:
> 
> """
> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
> "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
> generalized system. """


But he doesn't say anything about side-effects. If you're passing 
generators around, sometimes you want an empty generator, just as 
sometimes you want an empty string, or list, or whatever.



-- 
Steven


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 01:44:16 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:44:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:37?pm, Kurt Smith <kwmsm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 2:49?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> > wrote:
> >> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > ? ? def print_numbers()
> >> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> >> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> >> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> >> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> >> > ? ? ? ? }
> >> > ? ? end
>
> >> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
> >> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
> >> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
> >> not following Lisp in that regard.
>
> >> for n in range(1,6):
> >> ? ? square = n*n
> >> ? ? cube = n*n*n
> >> ? ? if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
> >> ? ? print cube
>
> > There's definitely a cognitive dissonance between imperative
> > programming and functional programming. ?It's hard for programmers
> > used to programming in an imperative style to appreciate a functional
> > approach, because functional solutions often read "upside down" in the
> > actual source code and common algebraic notation:
>
> > ? ?def compute_squares_and_cubes(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?return [(n * n, n * n * n) for n in lst]
>
> > ? ?def reject_bad_values(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?return [(square, cube) for (square, cube) \
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?in lst if not (square == 25 or cube == 64)]
>
> > ? ?def cubes_only(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?return [cube for square, cube in lst]
>
> > ? ?def print_results(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?# 1. compute_squares_and_cubes
> > ? ? ? ?# 2. reject_bad_values
> > ? ? ? ?# 3. take cubes_only
> > ? ? ? ?# 4. print values
> > ? ? ? ?for item in \
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?cubes_only( # 3
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?reject_bad_values( # 2
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?compute_squares_and_cubes(lst))): # 1
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?print item # 4
>
> > You can, of course, restore the natural order of operations to read
> > top-down with appropriate use of intermediate locals:
>
> > ? ?def print_results(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?lst2 = compute_squares_and_cubes(lst)
> > ? ? ? ?lst3 = reject_bad_values(lst2)
> > ? ? ? ?lst4 = cubes_only(lst3)
> > ? ? ? ?for item in lst4:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?print item
>
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> # sent the original to the wrong place -- resending to python-list.
>
> Somewhat off topic, but only somewhat: ?you could use coroutines to
> get a pipeline effect.
>
> #--------------8<-----------------------------
> # Shamelessly lifted from David Beazley's
> # ?http://www.dabeaz.com/coroutines/
>
> def coroutine(co):
> ? ?def _inner(*args, **kwargs):
> ? ? ? ?gen = co(*args, **kwargs)
> ? ? ? ?gen.next()
> ? ? ? ?return gen
> ? ?return _inner
>
> def squares_and_cubes(lst, target):
> ? ?for n in lst:
> ? ? ? ?target.send((n * n, n * n * n))
>
> @coroutine
> def reject_bad_values(target):
> ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ?square, cube = (yield)
> ? ? ? ?if not (square == 25 or cube == 64):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?target.send((square, cube))
>
> @coroutine
> def cubes_only(target):
> ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ?square, cube = (yield)
> ? ? ? ?target.send(cube)
>
> @coroutine
> def print_results():
> ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ?print (yield)
>
> squares_and_cubes(range(10),
> ? ? ? ?reject_bad_values(
> ? ? ? ? ? ?cubes_only(
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print_results()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ?)

Wow!  It took me a while to get my head around it, but that's pretty
cool.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 19 02:01:52 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:01:52 +1100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2769.1266560414.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ocjlaeu7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> On 2010-02-18 18:33 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  writes:
> >
> >> He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that
> >> executes some given side-effect-producing code then immediately
> >> raises the StopIteration.
> >
> > Ah, hm. That's a rather perverse use case, but I'm sure the OP has their
> > reasons.
>
> Which he explained fairly clearly, I thought, in his original post.

(The original post isn't available to me; the reference in your reply
isn't accessible AFAICT.)

In the part of the original that you quoted, he speaks only of empty
generators (easy and clean), not generators that exist only for the
purpose of side-effects without yielding any items.

It's that latter that I describe as perverse, and I would think it worth
some effort to determine if that can be avoided by a different approach.

-- 
 \        ?The problem with television is that the people must sit and |
  `\    keep their eyes glued on a screen: the average American family |
_o__)                 hasn't time for it.? ?_The New York Times_, 1939 |
Ben Finney


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 02:13:28 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:13:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<7u6ml2Ffd8U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <3a910818-6911-4c9f-bdf0-7fffc31b117f@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:52?pm, Gregory Ewing <greg.ew... at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Steve Howell wrote:
> > Python may not support the broadest notion of anonymous functions, but
> > it definitely has anonymous blocks. ?You can write this in Python:
>
> > ? ? for i in range(10):
> > ? ? ? ? print i
> > ? ? ? ? print i * i
> > ? ? ? ? print i * i * i
>
> There's a clear difference between this and a Ruby block,
> however. A "block" in Ruby is implemented by passing a
> callable object to a method. There is no callable object
> corresponding to the body of a for-loop in Python.
>
> The important thing about Ruby blocks is not that they're
> anonymous, but that they're concrete objects that can
> be manipulated.
>

Agreed.

> The Ruby approach has the advantage of making it possible
> to implement user-defined control structures without
> requiring a macro facility. You can't do that in Python.
>
> However, there's something that Python's iterator protocol
> makes possible that you can't do with a block-passing
> approach. You can have multiple iterators active at once,
> and pull values from them as an when required in the
> calling code. Ruby's version of the iterator protocol
> can't handle that, because once an iterator is started
> it retains control until it's finished.
>

Is this still true or Ruby today?

http://pragdave.blogs.pragprog.com/pragdave/2007/12/pipelines-using.html

> Also, most people who advocate adding some form of
> block-passing facility to Python don't seem to have
> thought through what would happen if the block contains
> any break, continue, return or yield statements.
>

For sure.  It's certainly not clear to me how Ruby handles all those
cases, although I am still quite new to Ruby, so it's possible that I
just haven't stumbled upon the best explanations yet.

> This issue was looked into in some detail back when there
> was consideration of implementing the with-statement
> by passing the body as a function. Getting these
> statements to behave intuitively inside the body
> turned out to be a very thorny problem -- thorny enough
> to cause the block-passing idea to be abandoned in
> favour of the current implementation.
>

I found these links in the archive...were these part of the discussion
you were referring to?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-April/052907.html

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-April/053055.html

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-April/053123.html



From ken at picloud.com  Fri Feb 19 02:14:19 2010
From: ken at picloud.com (Ken Elkabany)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:14:19 -0800
Subject: ANN: PiCloud cloud library 1.8 release
Message-ID: <d5e947121002182314j2775a61cj7e9f03a3d5f59deb@mail.gmail.com>

PiCloud, a cloud-computing platform for the Python Programming Language, has
released version 1.8 of its client library, cloud. PiCloud enables Python
users to leverage the power of an on-demand, high performance, and auto
scaling compute cluster with as few as three lines of code! No server
management necessary. You can find out more here: http://www.picloud.com

What's New:
    * The client library is now open source with an LGPL license.
    * Users can choose to run their code across 2.5ghz nodes or 1ghz nodes
with a simple kwarg.
    * Users can now select to run their code in real-time, guaranteeing that
their processes start in under a second.
    * Drop-in replacement for multiprocessing.
    * Improved cluster workload distribution performance by 20%.
    * Improved efficiency of Python interpreter state extraction by the
client library.
    * Optimized for all Python packages in the Enthought Python
Distribution.
    * Bug fixes.
    * And much more!

Full service description:
PiCloud is a cloud-computing platform that integrates into the
Python Programming Language. It enables you to leverage the compute power
of Amazon Web Services without having to manage, maintain, or
configure virtual servers.

PiCloud integrates seamlessly into your existing code base through a custom
Python library, cloud. To offload the execution of a function to the cloud,
all you must do is pass your desired function into the cloud library.
PiCloud will then run the function on its high-performance and
automatically-scaling cluster. We quickly scale our server capacity to meet
your computational needs, and only charge you for the resources you actually
consume. Getting on the cloud has never been this easy!

PiCloud improves the full cycle of software development and deployment.
Functions that are run on PiCloud have their resource usage monitored,
performance analyzed, and errors traced; we further aggregate all your
functions to give you a bird's eye view of your service. Through these
introspective capabilities, PiCloud enables you to develop faster, easier,
and smarter.

Common use cases for our platform:
* Crawling the web
* Manipulating images and videos
* Generating charts and graphs
* Statistical analysis of data sets
* Real-time data processing

Cheers,

Ken Elkabany
PiCloud, Inc.
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From nobrowser at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 02:18:20 2010
From: nobrowser at gmail.com (nobrowser)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:18:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: with statement and standard library
Message-ID: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi.  The with statement is certainly nifty.  The trouble is, the
*only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
which I almost never use.  Yet there are many, many classes in the
library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
statement could be employed.  Start with the connection objects in
httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily.  Maybe it
is the case that some of these classes have with statement support
already but I don't know it?  If so, how can I know (without asking
here each time, LOL)?  If not, is there work being done on that?

I am interested in this question mostly in the context of Python 2.6.

Many thanks.


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 03:35:39 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:35:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<c07e3c71002181444w3bdbd714kd62ef4e3625b66af@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2761.1266551705.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ab1b0fb1-b2b4-4c22-8714-be6f69482655@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 8:49?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Brendon Wickham wrote:
> > On 19 February 2010 08:07, Mark Lawrence <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
> >>> Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
> >>> make a few comments though.
> >> This might be a Python group, but threads often drift way off topic, which
> >> added to the language itself make this a great group to read. ?If you don't
> >> like the way a thread goes, you can always skip it.
>
> > Perhaps...but he answered the question very well and with great, IMO, patience.
>
> +1
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS: ? ? ? ?http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

Dear Group,
Thank you for taking your time to discuss the issue, esp. to Mohammad
for his great patience and solving each aspect in a great way.
That's I frequent this group and I just learn lot. If it is bit
diverted topic,sorry.
Wishing you Happy Day Ahead,
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 03:36:28 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:36:28 +0000
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <m2k4u9fwqb.fsf@googlemail.com>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:

> Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> What about
>>     foo = iter('')
>
> That doesn't return a generator.
>
>     >>> foo = iter('')
>     >>> foo
>     <listiterator object at 0xf7cd3ed0>
>
> Whether the OP needs to create a generator, or just any iterable type,
> isn't clear.

If it walks and quacks like a duck... Anyway it's not just an iterable
object, it's an iterator.  I can't really imagine that there would be
some code which would be happy with generators but not with iterators
(as long as you can't send anything to them, which is always the case
with an empty generator).

-- 
Arnaud


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 19 03:52:47 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:52:47 +1100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <m2k4u9fwqb.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <87k4u9a9pc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
> > Whether the OP needs to create a generator, or just any iterable
> > type, isn't clear.
>
> If it walks and quacks like a duck... Anyway it's not just an iterable
> object, it's an iterator.  I can't really imagine that there would be
> some code which would be happy with generators but not with iterators
> (as long as you can't send anything to them, which is always the case
> with an empty generator).

I can't imagine that someone would want to create a generator that's
always empty, but has some side-effect that is the *real* purpose for
using the generator.

Clearly, none of us should let our limited imaginations be the guide to
what people actually want to do.

-- 
 \          ?Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; |
  `\    those in philosophy only ridiculous.? ?David Hume, _A Treatise |
_o__)                                           of Human Nature_, 1739 |
Ben Finney


From sschedule at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 03:54:37 2010
From: sschedule at gmail.com (Schedule)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:54:37 +0100
Subject: Submit HTTP GET data from XP PC to PHP on web server.
Message-ID: <ec7e197b1002190054y1a72056bj52f26166e6b511a7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone

I haeve tried to understand the capabilities of python in web development.
Have gone throuhg forums and online tutorials. Nevertheless I am not able to
find any topic which can give me some insite along with basic examples of
how to send http get data from an xp mashine using python code to php on web
server.

I have some parameters to collect from windows mashine via http get and
collect them on web server using php.

Any hint how to begin would be appreciated.
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 19 04:23:53 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:23:53 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7e5898$0$12109$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> 
(snip)

Sorry, no time to get into details now - but I can at least provide a 
couple hints.

The first point is that, to override a method on an _instance_, you have 
to provide a method object, not a plain function - remember that the 
descriptor protocol is only invoked on _class_ attributes, not on 
instance attributes.

class Foo(object):
   def bar(self):
       print "the original bar"

def mybar(self):
    print "mybar"

 >>> f = Foo()
 >>> f.bar = mybar
 >>> f.bar()

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "/tmp/python-1287O_i.py", line 32, in <module>
     f.bar()
TypeError: mybar() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

 >>> type(f.bar)
<type 'function'>
 >>> f.bar is mybar
True
 >>> f.bar(f)
mybar


As you see, "bar" is here resolved as an ordinary instance attribute - 
so here it evals to the "mybar" function object. If you want it to be a 
method object, you do have to invoke the descriptor protocol manually:

 >>> f.bar = mybar.__get__(f, type(f))
 >>> f.bar
<bound method Foo.mybar of <__main__.Foo object at 0xb7e16b0c>>
 >>> f.bar()
mybar

Or alternatively, you can use the types module:
 >>> import types
 >>> f.bar = types.MethodType(mybar, f, type(f))
 >>> f.bar
<bound method Foo.mybar of <__main__.Foo object at 0xb7e16b0c>>
 >>> f.bar()
mybar


Second point is that the descriptor protocol is invoked on each and 
every lookup. So when it comes to function class attributes, you get a 
new method object each time:

 >>> f = Foo()
 >>> m1 = f.bar
 >>> m1
<bound method Foo.bar of <__main__.Foo object at 0xb7cb522c>>
 >>> m2 = f.bar
 >>> m2
<bound method Foo.bar of <__main__.Foo object at 0xb7cb522c>>
 >>> id(m1)
3084861188L
 >>> id(m2)
3083656564L
 >>> m1 is m2
False
 >>>

I think this should help you understand why your code doesn't work as 
you assumed it would !-)


PS : as a side note, a common optimization trick is to "short-circuit" 
the whole lookup / descriptor mechanism when you have to call the same 
method of the same object in a loop:

l = []
append = l.append
for i in xrange(100):
    append(i)
print l

HTH



From snakylove at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 04:44:16 2010
From: snakylove at googlemail.com (Snaky Love)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:44:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to use AWS/PAA nowadays? PyAWS / pyamazon outdated?
References: <555ef5e9-dc90-494d-affc-a78389f6922f@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <74a987e8-2fe1-4109-995f-a0470a2033d7@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

wow, for some strange reason I did not find this with my first search
yesterday:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-amazon-product-api/0.2.2

I will try this.

sometime I wish all the old stuff would disappear from the internet.
if somebody is looking for a cool startup idea: what about some
website overlay that says "hey, dude, this stuff is old, go here, here
is the new and improved thing!" :)

thanks for your attention.


From anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 05:01:53 2010
From: anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com (Anh Hai Trinh)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:01:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 1:44?pm, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > def coroutine(co):
> > ? ?def _inner(*args, **kwargs):
> > ? ? ? ?gen = co(*args, **kwargs)
> > ? ? ? ?gen.next()
> > ? ? ? ?return gen
> > ? ?return _inner
>
> > def squares_and_cubes(lst, target):
> > ? ?for n in lst:
> > ? ? ? ?target.send((n * n, n * n * n))
>
> > @coroutine
> > def reject_bad_values(target):
> > ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ?square, cube = (yield)
> > ? ? ? ?if not (square == 25 or cube == 64):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?target.send((square, cube))
>
> > @coroutine
> > def cubes_only(target):
> > ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ?square, cube = (yield)
> > ? ? ? ?target.send(cube)
>
> > @coroutine
> > def print_results():
> > ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ?print (yield)
>
> > squares_and_cubes(range(10),
> > ? ? ? ?reject_bad_values(
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?cubes_only(
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print_results()
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> > ? ? ? ?)
>
> Wow! ?It took me a while to get my head around it, but that's pretty
> cool.


This pipeline idea has actually been implemented further, see <http://
blog.onideas.ws/stream.py>.

  from stream import map, filter, cut
  range(10) >> map(lambda x: [x**2, x**3]) >> filter(lambda t: t[0]!
=25 and t[1]!=64) >> cut[1] >> list
  [0, 1, 8, 27, 216, 343, 512, 729]


--
aht


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Fri Feb 19 05:30:40 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:30:40 +0100
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <039FC570-3380-4415-B793-C637805DAEF0@roalddevries.nl>

On Feb 18, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov  
> <anfedorov at gmail.com>wrote:
>> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the  
>> +, -, <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their  
>> operands. Also, that == should be commutative and transitive, that  
>> > and < should be transitive, and anti-commutative.
>>
>> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from  
>> the mathematical meanings?
>
> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere,  
> nor assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the  
> operators doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not  
> enforce anything for these methods.

Still, it's clear that (for example) '==' is not just a normal  
function call. Look at this example (in ipython):

 >>> False == False == False
True
 >>> True == False == False
False
 >>> (True == False) == False
True

Anybody knows how why this is so?





From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 19 05:39:59 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:39:59 -0800
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <039FC570-3380-4415-B793-C637805DAEF0@roalddevries.nl>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<039FC570-3380-4415-B793-C637805DAEF0@roalddevries.nl>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002190239x13f3f051lb69fe674a457aca8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:30 AM, Roald de Vries <rdv at roalddevries.nl> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov
>> <anfedorov at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -,
>>> <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
>>> that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
>>> transitive, and anti-commutative.
>>>
>>> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
>>> mathematical meanings?
>>
>> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere, nor
>> assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the operators
>> doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not enforce anything for
>> these methods.
>
> Still, it's clear that (for example) '==' is not just a normal function
> call. Look at this example (in ipython):
>
>>>> False == False == False
> True
>>>> True == False == False
> False
>>>> (True == False) == False
> True
>
> Anybody knows how why this is so?

Python is smart enough to recognize chained comparisons and do The
Right Thing (tm).
`X == Y == Z` is equivalent to `X == Y and Y == Z`. Same goes for the
other comparison operators besides == and also possibly for longer
chains.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb 19 06:20:08 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:20:08 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
Message-ID: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into 
executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to 
snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not 
snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb 19 06:30:15 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:30:15 +0100
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2772.1266575455.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hllsno$k62$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Roald de Vries wrote:

> On Feb 18, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov
>> <anfedorov at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the
>>> +, -, <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their
>>> operands. Also, that == should be commutative and transitive, that
>>> > and < should be transitive, and anti-commutative.
>>>
>>> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from
>>> the mathematical meanings?
>>
>> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere,
>> nor assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the
>> operators doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not
>> enforce anything for these methods.
> 
> Still, it's clear that (for example) '==' is not just a normal
> function call. Look at this example (in ipython):
> 
>  >>> False == False == False
> True
>  >>> True == False == False
> False
>  >>> (True == False) == False
> True
> 
> Anybody knows how why this is so?

As Chris said

expr1 <op1> expr2 <op2> expr3 <op3> ...

is resolved as 

(expr1 <op1> expr2) and (expr2 <op2> expr3) and (expr3 <op3> ...

where each exprN is evaluated just once.


For this to become the obvious way you have to look at interval checks like

a < b < c

Peter


From sarosh.nust at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 19 06:38:22 2010
From: sarosh.nust at hotmail.com (sarosh)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:38:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to do filetransfer using usrp.
Message-ID: <27652452.post@talk.nabble.com>


how to do filetransfer using usrp.
can i make lan interface between two computers connected to usrp each and
then transfer files (images/video) between them?
how to transfer files?
is there any example of such kind in gnuradio?

sarosh
-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/how-to-do-filetransfer-using-usrp.-tp27652452p27652452.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 07:25:14 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 04:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: with statement and standard library
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6421e4e-c75a-4e84-a471-f4ad042e870e@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

nobrowser <nobrow... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yet there are many, many classes in the
> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
> statement could be employed. ?Start with the connection objects in
> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily. ?Maybe it
> is the case that some of these classes have with statement support
> already but I don't know it? ?If so, how can I know (without asking
> here each time, LOL)? ?If not, is there work being done on that?

If an object has __enter__ and __exit__ methods, it should work as a
context manager.

If you do find any such classes, submitting doc bugs or patches would
be really handy.

However, I'm not sure if there was any attempt to retrofit the stdlib
with context manager supports, so if you do come up with more elegant
approaches, please contribute them, we'll all thank you :)


From andreengels at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 08:04:06 2010
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:04:06 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into
> executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to
> snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not
> snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?

No idea whether it has to do with your problem, but if it's executable
in Windows, its name is snowball.exe, not snowball.

-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 19 09:19:06 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:19:06 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>

Andre Engels wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into
>> executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to
>> snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not
>> snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?
> 
> No idea whether it has to do with your problem, but if it's executable
> in Windows, its name is snowball.exe, not snowball.
> 

Not necessarily, it's perfectly possible to setup a Python script to run 
on Windows using file associations in the same way that you can run a 
command (.bat) file.  If the OP types the command "ASSOC .py" without 
the quotes at the command prompt, the response .py=Python.File tells you
that this association has been setup.

HTH.

Mark Lawrence.



From andreengels at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:33:59 2010
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:33:59 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Andre Engels wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into
>>> executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to
>>> snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not
>>> snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?
>>
>> No idea whether it has to do with your problem, but if it's executable
>> in Windows, its name is snowball.exe, not snowball.
>>
>
> Not necessarily, it's perfectly possible to setup a Python script to run on
> Windows using file associations in the same way that you can run a command
> (.bat) file. ?If the OP types the command "ASSOC .py" without the quotes at
> the command prompt, the response .py=Python.File tells you
> that this association has been setup.

And how does that invalidate what I wrote? One cannot associate the
empty extension, so if "snowball" runs a program, that's the program
in the file "snowball.exe" not the program in the file "snowball" that
has its extension associated to something - it has no extension, so
its extension cannot be associated.

-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:39:04 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:39:04 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <4b7dba1e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7dba1e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hlm7o7$a60$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:28:44 +0100, mk wrote:
> 
>>      nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__
> 
> I should point out that leading-and-trailing-double-underscore names are 
> reserved for use by the language.

Right... I completely missed that. I will try to change the habit.

I am under impression that a function with no underscore in name is 
meant to be called "publicly" on instance, like Foo().nostat, a function 
with one underscore (and no trailing underscores) is meant to be like 
"it's mostly intended for internal use, but you can still call it", 
somewhat like "protected" in C++, and a function with two leading 
underscores (and no trailing underscores) is meant as completely 
internal to the class, not meant to be called by outsiders, somewhat 
like "private" in C++ (I abstract from obvious point in C++ that 
semantics of those keywords is enforced by a compiler in C++).

Is that correct?

Regards,
mk




From justin.mailinglists at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:40:19 2010
From: justin.mailinglists at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:40:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to do filetransfer using usrp.
References: <mailman.2774.1266579506.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <83b8c073-7b75-4746-9beb-cea0a5f11eb8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 7:38?pm, sarosh <sarosh.n... at hotmail.com> wrote:
> how to do filetransfer using usrp.
> can i make lan interface between two computers connected to usrp each and
> then transfer files (images/video) between them?
> how to transfer files?
> is there any example of such kind in gnuradio?
>
> sarosh

am not sure what USRP is but a quick google found
http://packages.debian.org/sid/python-usrp


From daniele.gondoni at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:41:13 2010
From: daniele.gondoni at gmail.com (Daniele Gondoni)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:41:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2733.1266519548.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6777ece-9b45-4423-8e77-cfa743e67134@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<ab331e39-bf23-4f62-a092-960dd07818b0@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7da919$0$22938$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <0710f64c-7c38-47fc-85d1-0da13fe62bb8@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:53?pm, Irmen de Jong <ir... at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl> wrote:
> On 2/18/10 9:45 PM, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>
> > On Feb 18, 5:21 pm, Daniele Gondoni<daniele.gond... at gmail.com> ?wrote:
> >> On 18 Feb, 19:58, "sstein... at gmail.com"<sstein... at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>
> >>> Down from here (NH, US).
>
> >>> S
>
> >>> On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>
> >> Unreacheable from Italy as well...
>
> > Same here (Buenos Aires, Argentina).
>
> It ain't down till Netcraft confirms it!
>
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pyjs.org
>
> Oh wait...
>
> -irmen

my goodness! it seems only the domain has expired
the site's still there, just add

216.34.181.97 pyjs.org

to your hosts file and BANG


From goon12 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:43:52 2010
From: goon12 at gmail.com (Joe Riopel)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:43:52 -0500
Subject: Submit HTTP GET data from XP PC to PHP on web server.
In-Reply-To: <ec7e197b1002190054y1a72056bj52f26166e6b511a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec7e197b1002190054y1a72056bj52f26166e6b511a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a2ccd191002190643n18c990a5qc1333a362dcc4484@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Schedule <sschedule at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone
>
> I haeve tried to understand the capabilities of python in web development.
> Have gone throuhg forums and online tutorials. Nevertheless I am not able to
> find any topic which can give me some insite along with basic examples of
> how to send http get data from an xp mashine using python code to php on web
> server.

Have a look at urllib2 (urllib2.Request) and maybe mechanize
(http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize/).


From funthyme at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:43:56 2010
From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:43:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
Message-ID: <6a8e506c-63df-482b-a39d-148e6217ba2c@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

It appears that, in trying to cut down spm, somone chahnged a DNS
entry and screwed it up : it shouldbe back before long.

John
--


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:45:12 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:45:12 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <4B7DD3D6.9030403@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B7DD3D6.9030403@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <hlm83n$bgi$1@ger.gmane.org>

John Posner wrote:
>> a
>> False
>>
>> I expected to see 'nostatget' output: nostat.__get__ = nostatget
>> obviously failed to replace this function's __get__ method.
> 
> I don't quite understand the above sentence, so I'm assuming that you 
> wanted the final "is" test to be "True" instead of "False".

No. I should have described my goal in plain English in first place.

I wanted to replace nostat function's __get__ descriptor with a function 
that would allow me to peek inside it (i.e. into __get__ descriptor 
arguments) and that would then call original nostat.__get__.

So no, I expected it to be false, that is, I expected to replace 
original descriptor with a "custom" descriptor. I just wondered why this 
custom "nostatget" descriptor didn't get called even though the new 
nostat.__get__ didn't seem to be its old self (so quite likely it was 
the new, nostatget, descriptor).

But Bruno pointed out that I need instancemethod for that, not plain 
function.

Regards,
mk



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 19 10:01:53 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:01:53 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2778.1266590310.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7dba1e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2778.1266590310.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ea7ce$0$15611$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:28:44 +0100, mk wrote:
>>
>>>      nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__
>>
>> I should point out that leading-and-trailing-double-underscore names 
>> are reserved for use by the language.
> 
> Right... I completely missed that. I will try to change the habit.
> 
> I am under impression that a function with no underscore in name is 
> meant to be called "publicly" on instance, like Foo().nostat, a function 
> with one underscore (and no trailing underscores) is meant to be like 
> "it's mostly intended for internal use, but you can still call it", 
> somewhat like "protected" in C++, and a function with two leading 
> underscores (and no trailing underscores) is meant as completely 
> internal to the class, not meant to be called by outsiders, somewhat 
> like "private" in C++ (I abstract from obvious point in C++ that 
> semantics of those keywords is enforced by a compiler in C++).
> 
> Is that correct?

Mostly, yes.

- s/function/whatever/ : these rules apply to all names

- the single leading underscore denote implementation, IOW : you should 
not use it, unless you have a pretty good reason to do so AND you take 
full responsability for what may happens

- the double leading underscore is in fact mostly to protect your 
attribute from accidental overloading. It triggers a (simple) 
name-mangling operation that turns "__yourname" into 
"_Yourclassname__yourname". FWIW, this is something I must have a use 
for at most once a year, and even then most of the times because I'm a 
bit of a control freak sometimes.



From pedro.al at fenhi.uh.cu  Fri Feb 19 10:08:06 2010
From: pedro.al at fenhi.uh.cu (Yasser Almeida =?iso-8859-1?b?SGVybuFuZGV6?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:08:06 -0500
Subject: Attributes in privates methods
Message-ID: <20100219100806.gm1qqhaisk48ookw@correo.fenhi.uh.cu>

Hi all.

I have a class with the attribute 'log_file', opened out of the class:
class ProteinCluster:
    def __init__(self,cluster_name,log_file):
       ...
       self.log_file = log_file
       ...
Then i have a private method which write in the log_file:
    def _read_structure(self, pdb_code):
       ...
       ...
       self.log_file.write('blablabla')
       ...
       ...
When i run the script, it raises the error:
AttributeError: ProteinCluster instance has no attribute 'log_file'

My question is, the class attributes are valids in private methods,  
like in publics methods?

Thanks


-- 
Yasser Almeida Hern?ndez, BSc
Center of Molecular Inmunology (CIM)
Nanobiology Group
P.O.Box 16040, Havana, Cuba
Phone: (537) 214-3178
almeida at cim.sld.cu

----------------------------------------------------------------
Correo FENHI





From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 19 10:16:20 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:16:20 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlm9vh$ifg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Andre Engels wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Andre Engels wrote:
>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into
>>>> executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to
>>>> snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not
>>>> snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?
>>> No idea whether it has to do with your problem, but if it's executable
>>> in Windows, its name is snowball.exe, not snowball.
>>>
>> Not necessarily, it's perfectly possible to setup a Python script to run on
>> Windows using file associations in the same way that you can run a command
>> (.bat) file.  If the OP types the command "ASSOC .py" without the quotes at
>> the command prompt, the response .py=Python.File tells you
>> that this association has been setup.
> 
> And how does that invalidate what I wrote? One cannot associate the
> empty extension, so if "snowball" runs a program, that's the program
> in the file "snowball.exe" not the program in the file "snowball" that
> has its extension associated to something - it has no extension, so
> its extension cannot be associated.
> 

Darn, only half the story, sorry.  When the OP types snowball something 
executes.  The command SET PATHEXT will show what file extensions are 
set to run files.  On my system the response is :-

c:\Users\Mark\Java2Python>set pathext
PATHEXT=.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH;.MSC;.PY

So snowball with any one of the 12 extensions listed above would run on 
my system without actually typing the extension.  I'm just  guessing but 
has an executable been created but in another directory, so snowball.py 
is running?  Perhaps the best bet is simply to search appropriate 
directories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*.  Then the OP 
would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.

HTH.

Mark Lawrence



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 19 10:17:30 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:17:30 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2780.1266590681.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4B7DD3D6.9030403@optimum.net>
	<mailman.2780.1266590681.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7eab77$0$31722$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> John Posner wrote:
>>> a
>>> False
>>>
>>> I expected to see 'nostatget' output: nostat.__get__ = nostatget
>>> obviously failed to replace this function's __get__ method.
>>
>> I don't quite understand the above sentence, so I'm assuming that you 
>> wanted the final "is" test to be "True" instead of "False".
> 
> No. I should have described my goal in plain English in first place.
> 
> I wanted to replace nostat function's __get__ descriptor

A "descriptor" (shortcut for "object implementing the descriptor 
protocol) is an object that have a __get__ method - not the __get__ 
method itself. A function is a descriptor. The __get__ method of the 
function type is a method, and methods are not descriptors.

> with a function 
> that would allow me to peek inside it (i.e. into __get__ descriptor 
> arguments)

=>  __get__(self, instance, cls=None)

When called as a result of a look up on an instance f of class Foo, 
nostat.__get__ will get (nostat, f, Foo) as args.

> So no, I expected it to be false, that is, I expected to replace 
> original descriptor with a "custom" descriptor.

s/descriptor/__get__/

Anyway: these types (function, method etc) are implemented in (higly 
optimized) C, and with a lot of restriction for both performance and 
sanity reasons. It's a case of practicality beats purity.

Another - perhaps more rewarding - exercise might be to implement a 
custom callable type that implements the descriptor protocol the same 
way the function do.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 19 10:21:51 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:21:51 +0100
Subject: Attributes in privates methods
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2781.1266592512.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2781.1266592512.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7EAC8F.3040001@nospam.web.de>

Am 19.02.10 16:08, schrieb Yasser Almeida Hern?ndez:
> Hi all.
>
> I have a class with the attribute 'log_file', opened out of the class:
> class ProteinCluster:
> def __init__(self,cluster_name,log_file):
> ...
> self.log_file = log_file
> ...
> Then i have a private method which write in the log_file:
> def _read_structure(self, pdb_code):
> ...
> ...
> self.log_file.write('blablabla')
> ...
> ...
> When i run the script, it raises the error:
> AttributeError: ProteinCluster instance has no attribute 'log_file'
>
> My question is, the class attributes are valids in private methods, like
> in publics methods?

There is no semantical difference there, you must have some other error.

Diez


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Fri Feb 19 10:50:41 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:50:41 +0100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <950E783F-50F5-42B9-845F-0D85B927B3E8@roalddevries.nl>

> This pipeline idea has actually been implemented further, see <http://
> blog.onideas.ws/stream.py>.
>
> from stream import map, filter, cut
> range(10) >> map(lambda x: [x**2, x**3]) >> filter(lambda t: t[0]!
> =25 and t[1]!=64) >> cut[1] >> list
> [0, 1, 8, 27, 216, 343, 512, 729]

Wow, cool!

Just to show that you can easily add the iterator.map(f).blabla-syntax  
to Python:

     from __future__ import print_function

     class rubified(list):
         map    = lambda self, f: rubified(map(f, self))
         filter = lambda self, f: rubified(filter(f, self))
         reject = lambda self, f: rubified(filter(lambda x: not f(x),  
self))
         # each = lambda self, f: rubified(reduce(lambda x, y:  
print(y), self, None))
         def each(self, f):
             for x in self: f(x)

         def __new__(cls, value):
             return list.__new__(cls, value)

     def print_numbers():
         rubified([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]).map(lambda n:
             [n * n, n * n * n]).reject(lambda (square, cube):
             square == 25 or cube == 64).map(lambda (square, cube):
             cube).each(lambda n:
             print(n))





From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 10:51:54 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:51:54 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hlmc2p$pm8$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-19 00:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:20 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
>
>>>> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?
>>>
>>> I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop like
>>>
>>> for it in list_of_iterables:
>>>       for x in it:
>>>           do_this_or_that (x)
>>>
>>> where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code
>>> into the process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.
>>
>> Yes. That is exactly what the OP said in his original post:
>>
>> """
>> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
>> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
>> "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
>> generalized system. """
>
> But he doesn't say anything about side-effects.

"I have some generators *that do stuff*, then start yielding results." [emphasis 
mine]. Then he gives an example of a generator that does side-effect stuff and 
returning before yielding anything.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From wimmersimon at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 10:52:59 2010
From: wimmersimon at googlemail.com (SiWi)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
Message-ID: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Hello community,
I googled for an answer of the following problem, but I couldn't find
anything.
I've got a netbook and my fast workstation compter, which I usually
use for developing.
But I'd also like to take my netbook around the house and to develop
Python programms on it.
The problem is that naturally a netbook is not the fastest computer
you could find.

So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
netbook.

Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:00:45 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:00:45 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <87ocjlaeu7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<mailman.2769.1266560414.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87ocjlaeu7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlmcjd$s4s$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-19 01:01 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> On 2010-02-18 18:33 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
>>> Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>   writes:
>>>
>>>> He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that
>>>> executes some given side-effect-producing code then immediately
>>>> raises the StopIteration.
>>>
>>> Ah, hm. That's a rather perverse use case, but I'm sure the OP has their
>>> reasons.
>>
>> Which he explained fairly clearly, I thought, in his original post.
>
> (The original post isn't available to me; the reference in your reply
> isn't accessible AFAICT.)

You responded to my post which quoted his in full.

> In the part of the original that you quoted, he speaks only of empty
> generators (easy and clean), not generators that exist only for the
> purpose of side-effects without yielding any items.

"""
I have some generators *that do stuff*, then start yielding results. On
occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
"generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
generalized system.

...

      def gen():
          # *do my one-time processing here*

          return
          yield
"""
[emphasis mine]

Seriously, it's all there. I'm rather appalled at the lack of reading 
comprehension demonstrated in this thread.

> It's that latter that I describe as perverse, and I would think it worth
> some effort to determine if that can be avoided by a different approach.

By rearchitecting the system to accept things that aren't iterators, yes. But he 
may not be in control of that system. And it may not make things cleaner to do 
so if he wants to use itertools to compose the iterables, whether they are for 
side effects or not, in various ways.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From btaylordesign at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:05:10 2010
From: btaylordesign at gmail.com (Brandon)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:05:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about getmtime
Message-ID: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
os.path.getmtime(path)?

Thank you,
Brandon


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:06:10 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:06:10 -0600
Subject: with statement and standard library
In-Reply-To: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlmcth$t93$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-19 01:18 AM, nobrowser wrote:
> Hi.  The with statement is certainly nifty.  The trouble is, the
> *only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
> classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
> which I almost never use.  Yet there are many, many classes in the
> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
> statement could be employed.  Start with the connection objects in
> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily.

Yup. I believe that the devs wanted to adopt the new feature carefully and 
deliberately, though. They introduced it for file objects and locks first 
because those were the use cases that had been thoroughly explored in the 
development of the PEP. They held back from making every reasonable object a 
context manager in order to see how the new feature worked in the real world 
with those two use cases first.

Now is probably a good time to start adding more sensible context managers to 
objects. I don't think there is any particular organized effort to do so, though.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From darcy at druid.net  Fri Feb 19 11:10:21 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:10:21 -0500
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100219111021.42fddabb.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
SiWi <wimmersimon at googlemail.com> wrote:
> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> netbook.
> 
> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?

Yes but it isn't really a Python question.  I suggest Google but you
haven't given us enough information, particularly what OSs you are
running.  If it was me I would simply use the netbook as a thin client
for programs that I am writing and running on the main server.  In my
case a simple xterm would do the job since vi is my IDE and bash is my
runtime environment.  If you are using a GUI IDE you may be able to run
the GUI app on the server with the display on the netbook.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:14:43 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:14:43 +0100
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002190814x65804212ic0bd111972ac1aa0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:52 PM, SiWi <wimmersimon at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello community,
> I googled for an answer of the following problem, but I couldn't find
> anything.
> I've got a netbook and my fast workstation compter, which I usually
> use for developing.
> But I'd also like to take my netbook around the house and to develop
> Python programms on it.
> The problem is that naturally a netbook is not the fastest computer
> you could find.
>
> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> netbook.
>
> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

I recommend setting up a SSH server on your stationary and run
something like emacs. It's how I'm doing it anyway.


From bornstub at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:16:09 2010
From: bornstub at gmail.com (Victor Lin)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:16:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A tool for find dependencies relationships behind Python projects
Message-ID: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I just wrote a tool for drawing dependencies relationships diagram of
Python project on Pypi.  Here is the home page of the tool:

http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/

Some examples:
Sprox:
http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/sprox_dot.png

TurboGears2:
http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/tg2_dot.png

Hope this could be helpful :P

Regards.
Victor Lin.


From george.trojan at noaa.gov  Fri Feb 19 11:25:34 2010
From: george.trojan at noaa.gov (George Trojan)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:25:34 +0000
Subject: a question on building MySQL-python
Message-ID: <hlme1u$h57$1@news.nems.noaa.gov>

During installation of MySQL-python-1.2.3c1 I encountered the following 
error:

$ python2.6 setup.py build
running build
running build_py
copying MySQLdb/release.py -> build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/MySQLdb
running build_ext
building '_mysql' extension
creating build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6
gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall 
-Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -Dversion_info=(1,2,3,'gamma',1) 
-D__version__=1.2.3c1 -I/usr/include/mysql 
-I/usr/local/Python-2.6.3/include/python2.6 -c _mysql.c -o 
build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/_mysql.o -g -pipe -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 
-fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -m64 
-D_GNU_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE 
-fno-strict-aliasing -fwrapv
gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/_mysql.o 
-L/usr/lib64/mysql -L/usr/lib64 -L. -lmysqlclient_r -lz -lpthread 
-lcrypt -lnsl -lm -lpthread -lssl -lcrypto -lpython2.6 -o 
build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/_mysql.so
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.6
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

Linker could not find libpython2.6.so. Note that the compiler *did* find 
Python include file: -I/usr/local/Python-2.6.3/include/python2.6.
I am running CentOS5.3. Python 2.6 was configured as follows:

$ TARGET=/usr/local/Python-2.6.3
$ export LDFLAGS=-Wl,-rpath,$TARGET/lib
$ ./configure --prefix=$TARGET \
         --with-cxx=g++ --with-threads --enable-shared

to avoid messing with LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
I managed to complete the installation by pasting the above link command 
  and adding proper -L option, but I would like to know what would be 
the proper fix.

George


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:26:20 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:26:20 +0100
Subject: Question about getmtime
In-Reply-To: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002190826x380e2d29k585b127432001c34@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Brandon <btaylordesign at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
> os.path.getmtime(path)?
>
> Thank you,
> Brandon

Wouldn't it be easier to make a script and see for yourself then to
write a mail about it?


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 19 11:26:53 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:26:53 +0100
Subject: Attributes in privates methods
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2781.1266592512.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2781.1266592512.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ebbba$0$10159$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Yasser Almeida Hern?ndez a ?crit :
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a class with the attribute 'log_file', opened out of the class:
> class ProteinCluster:
>    def __init__(self,cluster_name,log_file):
>       ...
>       self.log_file = log_file
>       ...
> Then i have a private method which write in the log_file:
>    def _read_structure(self, pdb_code):
>       ...
>       ...
>       self.log_file.write('blablabla')
>       ...
>       ...
> When i run the script, it raises the error:
> AttributeError: ProteinCluster instance has no attribute 'log_file'
> 
> My question is, the class attributes are valids in private methods, like 
> in publics methods?

Diez already answered - the above code seems correct, so the source of 
your problem is elsewhere.

For the record, in your code, log_file is an instance attribute - a 
'class attribute' is an attribute that is defined on the class object 
itself, and is shared by all instances of the class.

Also, Python has no notion of "public" or "private" - at least at the 
language level. The '_name' convention is just, well, a naming convention.

This wont solve your problem - sorry, not much we can do here - but at 
least it will help wrt/ mutual understanding !-)


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:28:15 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:28:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cfe4b91-ca53-427e-8c74-8eb7e859f01b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Feb, 15:52, SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello community,
> I googled for an answer of the following problem, but I couldn't find
> anything.
> I've got a netbook and my fast workstation compter, which I usually
> use for developing.
> But I'd also like to take my netbook around the house and to develop
> Python programms on it.
> The problem is that naturally a netbook is not the fastest computer
> you could find.
>
> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> netbook.
>
> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?

There are plenty of ways to do this - but they are not really related
to Python.  What is most convenient for you will probably depend on
the tools that you are used to using, your operating system and your
level of expertise with configuring network services.  On mac and
linux it is very easy to set up an ssh server on your workstation.
You can then edit your files remotely - the method might be different
depending on your operating system, unless you use something like
Emacs - and also execute them remotely.

--
Arnaud


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:29:06 2010
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:29:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <af1b5783-7dbe-432e-8d0c-4532dee1d0a9@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Feb, 15:52, SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello community,
> I googled for an answer of the following problem, but I couldn't find
> anything.
> I've got a netbook and my fast workstation compter, which I usually
> use for developing.
> But I'd also like to take my netbook around the house and to develop
> Python programms on it.
> The problem is that naturally a netbook is not the fastest computer
> you could find.
>
> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> netbook.
>
> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?

Yes. Assuming you can cope with the relatively small netbook screen
here are some options:

1. Telnet (ok within a home and where no graphics needed)
2. Ssh (ok where no graphics needed)
3. An X-Windows server on your netbook (ok under Linux but good
Windows X Servers may be limited or nonexistent)
4. VNC (e.g. RealVnc) to get a remote view of the workstation's
screen.

I use telnet and RealVnc for purposes similar to those you describe.

James


From btaylordesign at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:30:48 2010
From: btaylordesign at gmail.com (Brandon)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:30:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about getmtime
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2789.1266596781.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00c30abd-e240-4ffc-9df7-30fbf573b3ad@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 10:26?am, Krister Svanlund <krister.svanl... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Brandon <btaylordes... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
>
> > Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
> > os.path.getmtime(path)?
>
> > Thank you,
> > Brandon
>
> Wouldn't it be easier to make a script and see for yourself then to
> write a mail about it?

Gee, thanks for the help. I guess.


From wimmersimon at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:32:48 2010
From: wimmersimon at googlemail.com (SiWi)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 5:10?pm, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
>
> SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> > developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> > script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> > netbook.
>
> > Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?
>
> Yes but it isn't really a Python question. ?I suggest Google but you
> haven't given us enough information, particularly what OSs you are
> running. ?If it was me I would simply use the netbook as a thin client
> for programs that I am writing and running on the main server. ?In my
> case a simple xterm would do the job since vi is my IDE and bash is my
> runtime environment. ?If you are using a GUI IDE you may be able to run
> the GUI app on the server with the display on the netbook.
>
> --
> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <da... at druid.net> ? ? ? ? | ?Democracy is three wolveshttp://www.druid.net/darcy/? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ?and a sheep voting on
> +1 416 425 1212 ? ? (DoD#0082) ? ?(eNTP) ? | ?what's for dinner.

I'm normally using IDLE and sometimes PyScripter on Windows Vista. The
netbook is Windows XP. Should I switch to Vim or Emacs?


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 11:32:53 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2783.1266594647.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a9aa24e2-479b-4a00-8b64-ed2bed9090f4@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 7:50?am, Roald de Vries <r... at roalddevries.nl> wrote:
> > This pipeline idea has actually been implemented further, see <http://
> > blog.onideas.ws/stream.py>.
>
> > from stream import map, filter, cut
> > range(10) >> map(lambda x: [x**2, x**3]) >> filter(lambda t: t[0]!
> > =25 and t[1]!=64) >> cut[1] >> list
> > [0, 1, 8, 27, 216, 343, 512, 729]
>
> Wow, cool!
>
> Just to show that you can easily add the iterator.map(f).blabla-syntax ?
> to Python:
>
> ? ? ?from __future__ import print_function
>
> ? ? ?class rubified(list):
> ? ? ? ? ?map ? ?= lambda self, f: rubified(map(f, self))
> ? ? ? ? ?filter = lambda self, f: rubified(filter(f, self))
> ? ? ? ? ?reject = lambda self, f: rubified(filter(lambda x: not f(x), ?
> self))
> ? ? ? ? ?# each = lambda self, f: rubified(reduce(lambda x, y: ?
> print(y), self, None))
> ? ? ? ? ?def each(self, f):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for x in self: f(x)
>
> ? ? ? ? ?def __new__(cls, value):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return list.__new__(cls, value)
>
> ? ? ?def print_numbers():
> ? ? ? ? ?rubified([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]).map(lambda n:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[n * n, n * n * n]).reject(lambda (square, cube):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?square == 25 or cube == 64).map(lambda (square, cube):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?cube).each(lambda n:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print(n))

Sure, that definitely achieves the overall sequential structure of
operations that I like in Ruby.  A couple other example have been
posted as well now, which also mimic something akin to a Unix
pipeline.

A lot of Ruby that I see gets spelled like this:

   list.select { |arg1, arg2|
      expr
   }.reject { |arg|
      expr
   }.collect { |arg}
      expr
   }

With your class you can translate into Python as follows:

   list.select(lambda arg1, arg2:
      expr
   ).reject(lambda arg:
      expr
   ).collect(lambda arg:
      expr
   )

So for chaining transformations based on filters, the difference
really just comes down to syntax (and how much sugar is built into the
core library).

The extra expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can add
statements within the block, which I find useful sometimes just for
debugging purposes:

    debug = true
    data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code()
    data.each { |arg|
        if debug and arg > 10000
            puts arg
        end
        # square the values
        arg * arg
    }






From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 12:21:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 17:21:03 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:51:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

> On 2010-02-19 00:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:20 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
>>
>>>>> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop
>>>> like
>>>>
>>>> for it in list_of_iterables:
>>>>       for x in it:
>>>>           do_this_or_that (x)
>>>>
>>>> where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code
>>>> into the process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.
>>>
>>> Yes. That is exactly what the OP said in his original post:
>>>
>>> """
>>> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
>>> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only
>>> really "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as
>>> part of a generalized system. """
>>
>> But he doesn't say anything about side-effects.
> 
> "I have some generators *that do stuff*, then start yielding results."
> [emphasis mine]. 

What does "do stuff" have to do with side-effects? Here's a generator 
that does stuff, and it has no side-effects.

def generator_that_does_stuff(x):
    y = 3*x**2 - 5*x + 1
    yield y

"Do stuff" is ambiguous -- it could mean stuff with side-effects, or 
stuff without. The first is potentially harmful, the second is pointless.


> Then he gives an example of a generator that does
> side-effect stuff and returning before yielding anything.

Unfortunately the OP's original post isn't visible to me, so I can only 
respond to your post, which may or may not quote the entire original post.

The only example I have seen was an empty generator with a comment saying 
"do my one-time processing here", with *no* indication of what that one-
time processing is supposed to be, why it is necessary, and whether it 
has side-effects or not.

Since the OP (apparently) hasn't seen fit to comment, we're still all 
guessing what he means. It's certainly possible, likely even, that he's 
using generators that operate by side-effect: that explanation is 
consistent with his request. Personally, I can't imagine that would be 
good coding practice, but I could be wrong.


-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb 19 12:21:24 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:21:24 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/19/2010 7:16 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Andre Engels wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence
>> <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Andre Engels wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com>
...
tories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*. Then the OP
> would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.
>
> HTH.
>
> Mark Lawrence
>
Here's the answer. Consider this folder.

Afolder
   abc.py
   hello.py

I now apply py2exe steps to produce an  "executable" for abc. The folder 
now changes to

Afolder
   build
   dist
   abc.py
   hello.py

build are two new folders. dist contains abc.exe.

Somehow when I type abc at the command prompt, this follows a path to 
dist, and finds abc.exe, where it executes properly.
Cute, eh? I have no explanation for it.

I have no idea what build is for, but dist contains a bunch of other 
files that possible apply to doing this with other files in the Afolder. 
hello.py maybe. The details seem to be shrouded. Possible a Google might 
provide a full explanation.


From darcy at druid.net  Fri Feb 19 12:22:43 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:22:43 -0500
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100219122243.13051024.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:48 -0800 (PST)
SiWi <wimmersimon at googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'm normally using IDLE and sometimes PyScripter on Windows Vista. The
> netbook is Windows XP. Should I switch to Vim or Emacs?

Umm... Yes?  It's still not a Python question and is in fact a
religious one.  Other people have different religions.  You should
probably ask this question on a list dedicated to using Windows.  What
you want to know is how to run programs remotely.  The fact that it is
a Python program is irrelevant.

I'm not trying to brush you off.  I'm just trying to point you
somewhere that can answer your question better.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 12:30:42 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 17:30:42 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2783.1266594647.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a9aa24e2-479b-4a00-8b64-ed2bed9090f4@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7ecac2$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:53 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> The extra expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can add
> statements within the block, which I find useful sometimes just for
> debugging purposes:
> 
>     debug = true
>     data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code() 
>     data.each { |arg|
>         if debug and arg > 10000
>             puts arg
>         end
>         # square the values
>         arg * arg
>     }

How is that different from this?

debug = true
data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code() 
for i, arg in enumerate(data):
    if debug and arg > 10000
        print arg
    # square the values
    data[i] = arg * arg


I don't see the extra expressiveness. What I see is that the Ruby snippet 
takes more lines (even excluding the final brace), and makes things 
implicit which in my opinion should be explicit. But since I'm no Ruby 
expert, perhaps I'm misreading it.


-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 19 12:41:10 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:41:10 -0500
Subject: with statement and standard library
In-Reply-To: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlmifj$gvq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/19/2010 2:18 AM, nobrowser wrote:
> Hi.  The with statement is certainly nifty.  The trouble is, the
> *only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
> classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
> which I almost never use.  Yet there are many, many classes in the
> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
> statement could be employed.  Start with the connection objects in
> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily.  Maybe it
> is the case that some of these classes have with statement support
> already but I don't know it?  If so, how can I know (without asking
> here each time, LOL)?  If not, is there work being done on that?


> I am interested in this question mostly in the context of Python 2.6.

2.6 is in maintenance mode only; no new features.
2.7 will be so when released in June and effectively so in a month when 
the first beta is released.
3.2 is a reasonable target.

tjr



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 12:44:16 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:44:16 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org> 
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:51:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
> >> But he doesn't say anything about side-effects.
> >
> > "I have some generators *that do stuff*, then start yielding results."
> > [emphasis mine].
>
> What does "do stuff" have to do with side-effects? Here's a generator
> that does stuff, and it has no side-effects.
>
> def generator_that_does_stuff(x):
>    y = 3*x**2 - 5*x + 1
>    yield y
>
> "Do stuff" is ambiguous -- it could mean stuff with side-effects, or
> stuff without. The first is potentially harmful, the second is pointless.


What does it matter what *do stuff* means? My point is, there's *stuff* I
need to do there, and what that stuff is really has absolutely nothing to do
with the issue at hand. Its certainly a side-effect, at least in terms of
the generator, otherwise there would be no point really in having the
generator there at all.

I have a system that consumes generators which, almost always, yield over
objects to be handled. One in ten-- nay, one in 20, if not worse-- cases has
me wanting to inject into this system some arbitrary code that gets run.
Some bit of processing I need to get done in the context of that cycle.

There's nothing harmful about it. These aren't generic generators that are
going to be passed around and consumed by random things or anything else.
They exist solely to be consumed by the core system. They're never composed
or loaded by anything else, its just the API of how the system works. It
loads bunches of modules dynamically, each module has a generator for
yielding objects to be consumed. That generator is the one and only line of
connection between the core system and the modules.


> > Then he gives an example of a generator that does
> > side-effect stuff and returning before yielding anything.
>
> Unfortunately the OP's original post isn't visible to me, so I can only
> respond to your post, which may or may not quote the entire original post.
>
> The only example I have seen was an empty generator with a comment saying
> "do my one-time processing here", with *no* indication of what that one-
> time processing is supposed to be, why it is necessary, and whether it
> has side-effects or not.
>

It doesn't matter what the one-time processing is supposed to be. I could
say, "This particular module doesn't yield objects like all the rest, but
instead just needs to override a certain utility function the system uses,
to change how name equality is handled so that tests compare on normalized
forms. The API for integrating into the the core system -- to be loaded as a
module and integrated into the system -- is to have a generator of a certain
name, which yields N objects. In this case, N = 0.".

Now, having said that, why in the world does that matter at all to my
question? :) It changes no part of anyone's possible solution, be it
Robert's once-wrapped-to-decorator, to Holden's just-comment-the-oddity, to
your empty-for-loop-yield, to any others.

It doesn't *matter* what the processing has to be. And if it has
side-effects or not is only relevant to the question of the perversity of my
use-case, a discussion I just don't really even have any interest in =)

Thanks, all, though, for your responses and solutions.

Much to my embarrassment, sometime last night I realized I was being a
complete idiot, and the 'correct' way to handle this in my scenario is
really just:

def initialize():
    # do one time processing here

    return []

A generator is just a callable that returns an iterator, after all. If I
don't want to yield anything, returning an empty iterable accomplishes the
same goal to get the code loaded and run by the host-cycle while
contributing nothing at all to the object pool.

--S
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 12:50:19 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:50:19 +0000
Subject: best way to create a dict from string
In-Reply-To: <hljpd1$78g$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>
References: <hljpd1$78g$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <4B7ECF5B.9090900@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Tim Arnold wrote:
> Hi,
> I've got some text to parse that looks like this
> 
> text = ''' blah blah blah
> \Template[Name=RAD,LMRB=False,LMRG=True]{tables}
> ho dee ho
> '''

If you're going to include backslashes in the string literal then use a
raw string for safety.

> I want to extract the bit between the brackets and create a dictionary. 
> Here's what I'm doing now:
> 
> def options(text):
>     d = dict()
>     options = text[text.find('[')+1:text.find(']')]
>     for k,v in [val.split('=') for val in options.split(',')]:
>         d[k] = v
>     return d
> 
1. I'd check whether there's actually a template.

2. 'dict' will accept a list of key/value pairs.

def options(text):
     start = text.find('[')
     end = text.find(']', start)
     if start == -1 or end == -1:
         return {}
     options = text[start + 1 : end]
     return dict(val.split('=') for val in options.split(','))

> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     for line in text.split('\n'):
>         if line.startswith('\\Template'):
>             print options(line)
> 
> 
> is that the best way or maybe there's something simpler?  The options will 
> always be key=value format, comma separated.
> thanks,
> 



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 12:56:15 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2783.1266594647.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a9aa24e2-479b-4a00-8b64-ed2bed9090f4@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7ecac2$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ac6917bf-b74f-458a-b8ca-2dba09d26f6e@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 9:30?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:53 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > The extra expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can add
> > statements within the block, which I find useful sometimes just for
> > debugging purposes:
>
> > ? ? debug = true
> > ? ? data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code()
> > ? ? data.each { |arg|
> > ? ? ? ? if debug and arg > 10000
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts arg
> > ? ? ? ? end
> > ? ? ? ? # square the values
> > ? ? ? ? arg * arg
> > ? ? }
>
> How is that different from this?
>
> debug = true
> data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code()
> for i, arg in enumerate(data):
> ? ? if debug and arg > 10000
> ? ? ? ? print arg
> ? ? # square the values
> ? ? data[i] = arg * arg
>
> I don't see the extra expressiveness. What I see is that the Ruby snippet
> takes more lines (even excluding the final brace), and makes things
> implicit which in my opinion should be explicit. But since I'm no Ruby
> expert, perhaps I'm misreading it.
>

You are reading the example out of context.

Can you re-read the part you snipped?

The small piece of code can obviously be written imperatively, but the
point of the example was not to print a bunch of squares.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 13:06:40 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:06:40 +0000
Subject: Question about getmtime
In-Reply-To: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7ED330.4050308@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Brandon wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
> os.path.getmtime(path)?
> 
The modification time of a copied file should be the same as the
original.

The creation time of a copied file will be the time at which it was
copied, so that can result in the paradoxical state of a file having
been modified _before_ it was created! :-)


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Fri Feb 19 13:22:09 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:22:09 -0700
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
Message-ID: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>

I have some some (~50) text files that have about 250,000 rows each. I am
reading them in using the following which gets me what I want. But it is not
fast. Is there something I am missing that should help. This is mostly an
question to help me learn more about python. It takes about 4 min right now.

def read_data_file(filename):
    reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
    read = list(reader)
    data_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[MASKS]' not in trow, [x for x in
read])
    data = [x for x in data_rows][1:]

    mask_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[OUTLIERS]' not in trow,
list(dropwhile(lambda drow: '[MASKS]' not in drow, read)))
    mask = [row for row in mask_rows if row][3:]

    outlier_rows = dropwhile(lambda drows: '[OUTLIERS]' not in drows, read)
    outlier = [row for row in outlier_rows if row][3:]


  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>
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From chrisprinos at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 13:23:43 2010
From: chrisprinos at gmail.com (Chris Prinos)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:23:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replacement for e.message() in python 2.6
References: <0PKdnTVryZFJIObWnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4017a5bb-ea1f-4aa8-b80f-95b6a938aaed@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 4:58?am, Nandakumar Chandrasekhar <navanitach... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> In previous versions of Python I used to use e.message() to print out
> the error message of an exception like so:
>
> try:
> ? ? ? ? result = x / y
> except ZeroDivisionError, e:
> ? ? ? ? print e.message()
>
> Unfortunately in Python 2.6 the message method is deprecated.
>
> Is there any replacement for the message method in Python 2.6 or is
> there any best practice that should be used in Python from now on?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Nanda

try:
? ? ? ? result = x / y
except ZeroDivisionError as e:
? ? ? ? print e

Note different syntax using "except ... as ..."

e.message is deprecated here, but e.args[0] contains the same thing.

see http://docs.python.org/dev/3.0/whatsnew/2.6.html#pep-3110
and http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3110/

chris


From steve.l.cohen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 13:35:56 2010
From: steve.l.cohen at gmail.com (Steven Cohen)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:35:56 -0600
Subject: Trouble running pywin32-214.win-amd64-py3.1 on 64-bit Windows 7
Message-ID: <5cf1aff91002191035o7c65df3bjfb4f26805923ea0d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I downloaded pywin32-214.win-amd64-py3.1, and it installs just fine (except
that it prints a traceback when it tells me the postinstall script
completed), but then when I try to execute Pythonwin.exe, I get the
following error popup:

The application can not locate win32ui.pyd (or Python) (126)
The specified module could not be found

However, the file win32ui.pyd is right there in the same directory from
which I am executing Pythonwin.exe.  Can anyone help me figure out what I am
doing wrong here?

Thanks.
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 19 13:52:16 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:52:16 +0100
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7EDDE0.6000000@sequans.com>

SiWi wrote:
> On Feb 19, 5:10 pm, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
>>> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
>>> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
>>> netbook.
>>>       
>>> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?
>>>       
>> Yes but it isn't really a Python question.  I suggest Google but you
>> haven't given us enough information, particularly what OSs you are
>> running.  If it was me I would simply use the netbook as a thin client
>> for programs that I am writing and running on the main server.  In my
>> case a simple xterm would do the job since vi is my IDE and bash is my
>> runtime environment.  If you are using a GUI IDE you may be able to run
>> the GUI app on the server with the display on the netbook.
>>
>> --
>> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <da... at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolveshttp://www.druid.net/darcy/               |  and a sheep voting on
>> +1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
>>     
>
> I'm normally using IDLE and sometimes PyScripter on Windows Vista. The
> netbook is Windows XP. Should I switch to Vim or Emacs?
>   
Vista supports rdesktop , you could use it.
I don't know if XP is shipped with a rdesktop client though (goggle for 
remote desktop).

JM



From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 13:56:37 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:56:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 12:21?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> On 2/19/2010 7:16 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:> Andre Engels wrote:
> >> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence
> >> <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> Andre Engels wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftra... at invalid.com>
>
> ...
> tories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*. Then the OP> would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.
>
> > HTH.
>
> > Mark Lawrence
>
> Here's the answer. Consider this folder.
>
> Afolder
> ? ?abc.py
> ? ?hello.py
>
> I now apply py2exe steps to produce an ?"executable" for abc. The folder
> now changes to
>
> Afolder
> ? ?build
> ? ?dist
> ? ?abc.py
> ? ?hello.py
>
> build are two new folders. dist contains abc.exe.
>
> Somehow when I type abc at the command prompt, this follows a path to
> dist, and finds abc.exe, where it executes properly.
> Cute, eh? I have no explanation for it.

Are you sure it's executing abc.exe?  If you are at a Python command
prompt within the "DOS shell" and you just type just abc, I think what
is happening is you are running abc.py, NOT abc.exe.

py2exe creates a dist folder (short for "distributables") by default
and puts your .exe into it along with whatever other files are needed
to run your application.  Depending on how you set the bundling
options, this may be a lot of things or just 1-2 other things.

Che


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 19 14:02:28 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:02:28 -0500
Subject: Question about getmtime
In-Reply-To: <00c30abd-e240-4ffc-9df7-30fbf573b3ad@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2789.1266596781.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00c30abd-e240-4ffc-9df7-30fbf573b3ad@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7EE044.2080804@ieee.org>

Brandon wrote:
> On Feb 19, 10:26 am, Krister Svanlund <krister.svanl... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Brandon <btaylordes... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>       
>>> Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
>>> os.path.getmtime(path)?
>>>       
>>> Thank you,
>>> Brandon
>>>       
>> Wouldn't it be easier to make a script and see for yourself then to
>> write a mail about it?
>>     
>
> Gee, thanks for the help. I guess.
>
>   
Well, copying the file won't affect the getmtime, since it's still 
there, and unmodified.  Moving it will cause the getmtime to to get an 
os.error, because the file no longer exists.

Probably you mean you're adjusting the path variable to point to the new 
location for the file.  But the answer is still "it depends."  How about 
if you get more specific?  If you write a copy utility using two opens, 
a read() and a write(), then the new file will certainly get a new 
timestamp unless you do something to prevent it.  If you copy the file 
from a DOS box in Windows XP, using the COPY command, then the getmtime 
on the new file will be identical to the one on the old.  If you do it 
on an Amiga using pip, I have no idea.

Perhaps you're writing a copy/move utility of your own, and you want to 
know how to cause a new file to have the same attributes as the 
original.  If so, be more specific.

DaveA



From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 19 14:04:16 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:04:16 -0500
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7EE0B0.5080605@ieee.org>

SiWi wrote:
> On Feb 19, 5:10 pm, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
>>> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
>>> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
>>> netbook.
>>>       
>>> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?
>>>       
>> Yes but it isn't really a Python question.  I suggest Google but you
>> haven't given us enough information, particularly what OSs you are
>> running.  If it was me I would simply use the netbook as a thin client
>> for programs that I am writing and running on the main server.  In my
>> case a simple xterm would do the job since vi is my IDE and bash is my
>> runtime environment.  If you are using a GUI IDE you may be able to run
>> the GUI app on the server with the display on the netbook.
>>
>> --
>> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <da... at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolveshttp://www.druid.net/darcy/               |  and a sheep voting on
>> +1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
>>     
>
> I'm normally using IDLE and sometimes PyScripter on Windows Vista. The
> netbook is Windows XP. Should I switch to Vim or Emacs?
>
>   
In that case, consider using RemoveDesktop, which is built into both Xp 
and Vista.

DaveA


From misceverything at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:08:53 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:08:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:19?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > example, via HTTP/HTTPS). ? Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.). ?What would
> > be the best way to go about doing this?
>
> I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> you might find it useful:
>
> ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
>
> Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
> come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
> py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).
>
> ? Cheers,
>
> ? ? ?Ryan
>
> --
> Ryan Kellyhttp://www.rfk.id.au?| ?This message is digitally signed. Please visit
> r... at rfk.id.au ? ? ? ?| ?http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/for details
>
> ?signature.asc
> < 1KViewDownload

Thanks Ryan..this looks like it could be what I'm looking for, but I'm
still a bit unsure of how exactly how it works.  Do you happen to have
an idea approx when the next release w/ tutorial will be out?


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 19 14:25:21 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:25:21 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlmoit$6vg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/19/2010 12:44 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> Much to my embarrassment, sometime last night I realized I was being a
> complete idiot, and the 'correct' way to handle this in my scenario is
> really just:
>
> def initialize():
>      # do one time processing here
>
>      return []
>
> A generator is just a callable that returns an iterator, after all.

Confusing generators and generator functions is, well, confusing.
For future reference, and clarity of communication in Pythonland,

generator function: function that produces a generator when called; if 
python coded, its body contains 'yield'.

generator: iterator produced by a generator function; has .__next__ and 
self-returning .__init__, like all other iterators.

generator expression: an expression that evaluates to a generator; the 
expression is used to create a temporary anonymous generator function 
that is called to produce the generator and is then discarded.

 >>> def gf(): yield 1

 >>> gf
<function gf at 0x00F5F4B0>
 >>> g=gf()
 >>> g
<generator object gf at 0x00F5BE40>
 >>> ge = (1 for i in [1])
 >>> ge
<generator object <genexpr> at 0x00F5BFD0>
 >>> dir(ge)
[..., '__iter__', ..., '__next__', ...]

So, when you said that you send 'generators' to your core system, when 
you meant 'generator functions', we were understanably confused. (Your 
core system should accept iterator classes also, unless it specifically 
checks to avoid duck typing.)

Terry Jan Reedy



From anfedorov at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:47:50 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:47:50 -0500
Subject: Chaining 501 generators breaks everything?
Message-ID: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>

I implemented a Sieve of
Eratosthenes<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes>primes
algorithm using generators:

http://gist.github.com/309109


This code which chains together 500 generators works fine (~1/20th of a
second) on my laptop. The code which chaines 501 generators (s/498/499/ on
line 23) doesn't seem to finish.

Does anyone know the reason for this, or can anyone point me where to look
for a good explanation?

Cheers,
Andrey
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From anfedorov at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:57:03 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:57:03 -0500
Subject: Chaining 501 generators breaks everything?
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7659cab31002191157m498a1de7l1087b930682bd991@mail.gmail.com>

Ack, just ran it from shell, realized my editor was just choking on a
"maximum recursion depth exceeded" RuntimeError. Didn't realize generators
used the call stack...

- Andrey

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com> wrote:

> I implemented a Sieve of Eratosthenes<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes>primes algorithm using generators:
>
> http://gist.github.com/309109
>
>
> This code which chains together 500 generators works fine (~1/20th of a
> second) on my laptop. The code which chaines 501 generators (s/498/499/ on
> line 23) doesn't seem to finish.
>
> Does anyone know the reason for this, or can anyone point me where to look
> for a good explanation?
>
> Cheers,
> Andrey
>
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 15:02:10 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:02:10 +0000
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7EEE42.6090806@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Vincent Davis wrote:
> I have some some (~50) text files that have about 250,000 rows each. I 
> am reading them in using the following which gets me what I want. But it 
> is not fast. Is there something I am missing that should help. This is 
> mostly an question to help me learn more about python. It takes about 4 
> min right now.
> 
> def read_data_file(filename):
>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>     read = list(reader)
>     data_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[MASKS]' not in trow, [x for x 
> in read])

'takewhile' accepts an iterable, so "[x for x in read]" can be
simplified to "read".

>     data = [x for x in data_rows][1:]
>     
     data = data_rows[1:]

>     mask_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[OUTLIERS]' not in trow, 
> list(dropwhile(lambda drow: '[MASKS]' not in drow, read)))
>     mask = [row for row in mask_rows if row][3:]
>     
No need to convert the result of 'dropwhile' to list.

>     outlier_rows = dropwhile(lambda drows: '[OUTLIERS]' not in drows, read)
>     outlier = [row for row in outlier_rows if row][3:]
> 
The problem, as I see it, is that you're scanning the rows more than
once.

Is this any better?

def read_data_file(filename):
     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
     data = []
     for row in reader:
         if '[MASKS]' in row:
             break
         data.append(row)
     data = data[1:]
     mask = []
     if '[MASKS]' in row:
         mask.append(row)
         for row in reader:
             if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
                 break
             if row:
                 mask.append(row)
         mask = mask[3:]
     outlier = []
     if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
         outlier.append(row)
         outliter.extend(row for row in outlier if row)
         outlier = outlier[3:]



From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 19 15:16:05 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:16:05 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net>

On 2/19/2010 2:25 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/19/2010 12:44 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
>> Much to my embarrassment, sometime last night I realized I was being a
>> complete idiot, and the 'correct' way to handle this in my scenario is
>> really just:
>>
>> def initialize():
>> # do one time processing here
>>
>> return []
>>
>> A generator is just a callable that returns an iterator, after all.
>
> Confusing generators and generator functions is, well, confusing.
> For future reference, and clarity of communication in Pythonland,
>
> generator function: function that produces a generator when called; if
> python coded, its body contains 'yield'.
>
> generator: iterator produced by a generator function;

I suggest:

  iterator produced by a generator function or a generator expression;

has .__next__ and
> self-returning .__init__, like all other iterators.
>
> generator expression: an expression that evaluates to a generator; the
> expression is used to create a temporary anonymous generator function
> that is called to produce the generator and is then discarded.

Note that the Py2.6.4 documentation is inconsistent. AFAICT, it conforms 
to Terry's definitions above in most places. But the Glossary says:

  generator
     A function which returns an iterator. <... more ...>

  generator expression
     An expression that returns a generator.  <... more ...>

The additional verbiage in these definitions mitigates the damage, but I 
think the first entry should be headlined *generator function* instead 
of *generator*. And the Glossary should include Terry's additional entry 
[ as amended by me :-) ]:

  generator
     An iterator produced by a generator function or a generator
     expression.

-John



From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 19 16:00:30 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:00:30 -0500
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2805.1266609732.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2805.1266609732.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7EFBEE.1030808@optimum.net>

On 2/19/2010 3:02 PM, MRAB wrote:
> Is this any better?
>
> def read_data_file(filename):
>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>     data = []
>     for row in reader:
>         if '[MASKS]' in row:
>             break
>         data.append(row)

As noted in another thread recently, you can save time by *not* looking 
up the "append" method of the list object each time through the FOR loop:

      data = []
      app_method = data.append
      for row in reader:
          if '[MASKS]' in row:
              break
          app_method(row)

Similarly in the rest of the code. This technique improved performance 
about 31% in this test:

#--------------------
import timeit
tt = timeit.repeat("for i in xrange(1000000): mylist.append(i)",
                    "mylist=[]",
                    number=25)
print "look up append() method each time:", min(tt)

tt = timeit.repeat("for i in xrange(1000000): app(i)",
                    "mylist=[]; app = mylist.append",
                    number=25)
print "look up append() method just once:", min(tt)
#--------------------

output:

look up append() method each time: 8.45481741783
look up append() method just once: 5.84429637887

-John




From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Feb 19 16:13:09 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:13:09 -0800
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:

> I have some some (~50) text files that have about 250,000 rows each. I am
> reading them in using the following which gets me what I want. But it is not
> fast. Is there something I am missing that should help. This is mostly an
> question to help me learn more about python. It takes about 4 min right now.
>
> def read_data_file(filename):
>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>     read = list(reader)
>

You're slurping the entire file here when it's not necessary.


>     data_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[MASKS]' not in trow, [x for x in
> read])
>

[x for x in read] is basically a copy of the entire list. This isn't
necessary.


>     data = [x for x in data_rows][1:]
>
>

Again, copying here is unnecessary.

[x for x in y] isn't a paradigm in Python. If you really need a copy of an
array, x = y[:] is the paradigm.


>     mask_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[OUTLIERS]' not in trow,
> list(dropwhile(lambda drow: '[MASKS]' not in drow, read)))
>





>     mask = [row for row in mask_rows if row][3:]
>

Here's another unnecessary array copy.


>
>     outlier_rows = dropwhile(lambda drows: '[OUTLIERS]' not in drows, read)
>     outlier = [row for row in outlier_rows if row][3:]
>


And another.

Just because you're using Python doesn't mean you get to be silly in how you
move data around. Avoid copies as much as possible, and try to avoid
slurping in large files all at once. Line-by-line processing is best.

I think you should invert this operation into a for loop. Most people tend
to think of things better that way than chained iterators. It also helps you
to not duplicate data when it's unnecessary.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net
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From ryan at rfk.id.au  Fri Feb 19 16:28:37 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:28:37 +1100
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
In-Reply-To: <7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1266614917.2495.34.camel@rambutan>

On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 20:32 -0800, CM wrote:
> On Feb 18, 7:19 pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > > example, via HTTP/HTTPS).   Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.).  What would
> > > be the best way to go about doing this?
> >
> > I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> > you might find it useful:
> >
> >  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
> >
>
> 
> This looks pretty interesting and useful.

Thanks :-)

> Just to help me understand it a bit more:  what is it that users will
> download from some web page in order to initially get the py2exe'd app
> on their system?  Is it "really" an "esky", with the app's .exe file
> inside it (but the esky is named the same as the app)?

Currently, it's just a zip file with the frozen app in it, which the
user unzips to wherever they want the app.  When unzipped it looks like
this:

   myapp.exe  <-- actually the esky bootstrap exe
   myapp-X.Y.Z.win32/
       myapp.exe  <-- the actual frozen app as produced by py2exe
       python26.dll
       ...etc...

This could easily be wrapped in an installer - the important thing is
just that the files end up on the user's machine in the expected
directory structure.

>   And then when
> they want to update, the app's code calls the esky class to do the
> work of swapping out the appropriate .exe file?  Something like this?

Yes.  The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
executable file.  As long as you don't change python versions, this
allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
without atomic file replacement.

So the frozen app does this in a background thread:

   Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()

And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory.  Et
viola, your app is at the latest version.

From the packager's point of view, you run the "bdist_esky" distutils
command to generate the zipfile containing your latest version, then
simply upload it to your server.

> Would this also work if one used InnoSetup to install the exe on the
> user's system?

Yes, absolutely - in fact I plan to do this myself at some stage.  All
that's required is that the files end up in the expected directory
structure.


   Ryan


-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From ryan at rfk.id.au  Fri Feb 19 16:32:16 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:32:16 +1100
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
In-Reply-To: <20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1266615136.2495.39.camel@rambutan>

On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 11:08 -0800, T wrote:
> On Feb 18, 7:19 pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > > example, via HTTP/HTTPS).   Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.).  What would
> > > be the best way to go about doing this?
> >
> > I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> > you might find it useful:
> >
> >  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
> >
> > Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
> > come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
> > py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).
> >
> Thanks Ryan..this looks like it could be what I'm looking for, but I'm
> still a bit unsure of how exactly how it works.  Do you happen to have
> an idea approx when the next release w/ tutorial will be out?


If I punt on the py2app support, I should be able to get it done in the
next 3-4 days.  I'll send a quick email to python-list when it's ready.

Here's a rough roadmap of where the project is heading:

  v0.4.0:  cx_freeze support and a tutorial [the next 3-4 days]
  v0.4.1:  py2app support [the next 2-3 weeks]
  v0.5.0:  differential updates using bsdiff [next few months]


  Cheers,

     Ryan



-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb 19 16:42:55 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:42:55 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/19/2010 10:56 AM, CM wrote:
> On Feb 19, 12:21 pm, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> On 2/19/2010 7:16 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:>  Andre Engels wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence
>>>> <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>>> Andre Engels wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson<wolftra... at invalid.com>
>>
>> ...
>> tories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*. Then the OP>  would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.
>>
>>> HTH.
>>
>>> Mark Lawrence
>>
>> Here's the answer. Consider this folder.
>>
>> Afolder
>>     abc.py
>>     hello.py
>>
>> I now apply py2exe steps to produce an  "executable" for abc. The folder
>> now changes to
>>
>> Afolder
>>     build
>>     dist
>>     abc.py
>>     hello.py
>>
>> build are two new folders. dist contains abc.exe.
>>
>> Somehow when I type abc at the command prompt, this follows a path to
>> dist, and finds abc.exe, where it executes properly.
>> Cute, eh? I have no explanation for it.
>
> Are you sure it's executing abc.exe?  If you are at a Python command
> prompt within the "DOS shell" and you just type just abc, I think what
> is happening is you are running abc.py, NOT abc.exe.
>
> py2exe creates a dist folder (short for "distributables") by default
> and puts your .exe into it along with whatever other files are needed
> to run your application.  Depending on how you set the bundling
> options, this may be a lot of things or just 1-2 other things.
>
> Che
Well, you are right. What proof do I have? In fact, I just tried to run 
a program that was not converted, and left off py. It worked.

So maybe the only way to execute the compiled code is to to to dist?


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Feb 19 16:47:46 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:47:46 -0800
Subject: Chaining 501 generators breaks everything?
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002191347n7a48a231ic4d65ad020296b54@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com> wrote:
> I implemented a?Sieve of Eratosthenes primes algorithm using generators:
>
> http://gist.github.com/309109
>
> This code which chains together 500 generators works fine (~1/20th of a
> second) on my laptop.
>

You may want a more traditional approach. Until Python gets tail
recursion (doubtful), this won't work very well on any platform.

#!/usr/bin/env python

from itertools import islice, count
from time import time

def primes():
    seen = []
    for i in count(2):
        for s in seen:
            if i%s == 0:
                break
        else: # Run if the for loop doesn't break
            seen.append(i)
            yield i

start = time()
for i in islice(primes(), 0, 10000):
    print i
print time() - start

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 16:48:47 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:48:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
Message-ID: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hey all,

I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.

Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
was blocking me because of many automated logins.

However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.

The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
on any site.

However, at my friend's place, I was able to open url's from HIS
computer, no problem.

Can anyone think of anything I can do to solve this problem? Why would
firefox be working fine but not Python?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Matt


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 16:52:57 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:52:57 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002191352v3dcfb04fm4a332a6f773f047e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:42 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

>
>>  Well, you are right. What proof do I have? In fact, I just tried to run a
> program that was not converted, and left off py. It worked.
>
> So maybe the only way to execute the compiled code is to to to dist?


Yes. You're meant to move everything in "dist" to where you want to run it,
that's the point of the dist folder-- its what you distribute. THe .exe and
the other stuff next to it the .exe needs to run.


--S
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From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Fri Feb 19 16:58:41 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:58:41 -0700
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>

In reference to the several comments about "[x for x in read] is basically a
copy of the entire list. This isn't necessary." or list(read). I had thought
I had a problem with having iterators in the takewhile() statement. I
thought I testes and it didn't work. It seems I was wrong. It clearly works.
I'll make this change and see if it is any better.

I actually don't plan to read them all in at once, only as needed, but I do
need the whole file in an array to perform some mathematics on them and
compare different files. So my interest was in making it faster to open them
as needed. I guess part of it is that they are about 5mb so I guess it might
be disk speed in part.
Thanks

*Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:
>
>> I have some some (~50) text files that have about 250,000 rows each. I am
>> reading them in using the following which gets me what I want. But it is not
>> fast. Is there something I am missing that should help. This is mostly an
>> question to help me learn more about python. It takes about 4 min right now.
>>
>> def read_data_file(filename):
>>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>>     read = list(reader)
>>
>
> You're slurping the entire file here when it's not necessary.
>
>
>>     data_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[MASKS]' not in trow, [x for x in
>> read])
>>
>
> [x for x in read] is basically a copy of the entire list. This isn't
> necessary.
>
>
>>      data = [x for x in data_rows][1:]
>>
>>
>
> Again, copying here is unnecessary.
>
> [x for x in y] isn't a paradigm in Python. If you really need a copy of an
> array, x = y[:] is the paradigm.
>
>
>>     mask_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[OUTLIERS]' not in trow,
>> list(dropwhile(lambda drow: '[MASKS]' not in drow, read)))
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>>     mask = [row for row in mask_rows if row][3:]
>>
>
> Here's another unnecessary array copy.
>
>
>>
>>     outlier_rows = dropwhile(lambda drows: '[OUTLIERS]' not in drows,
>> read)
>>     outlier = [row for row in outlier_rows if row][3:]
>>
>
>
> And another.
>
> Just because you're using Python doesn't mean you get to be silly in how
> you move data around. Avoid copies as much as possible, and try to avoid
> slurping in large files all at once. Line-by-line processing is best.
>
> I think you should invert this operation into a for loop. Most people tend
> to think of things better that way than chained iterators. It also helps you
> to not duplicate data when it's unnecessary.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
>
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Feb 19 17:00:03 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:00:03 -0800
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002191400j33f4735cl9809b40b5f189777@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:48 PM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> on any site.
>
> However, at my friend's place, I was able to open url's from HIS
> computer, no problem.
>
> Can anyone think of anything I can do to solve this problem? Why would
> firefox be working fine but not Python?
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>

Are you running behind a firewall? See if Firefox is configured with a
proxy. You'll have to use that to talk to any website.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 17:05:04 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:05:04 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7f0b2c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/19/10 14:57, Steve Howell wrote:
> In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> something like this:
> 
>    departments
>    departments_in_new_york
>    departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> 

I fare better, in less than ten-seconds thinking:

departments
eligible_departments
eligible_departments
eligible_employees
eligible_employee_names

as a bonus, they would be much more resilient when there are change of
eligibility requirements.

Names doesn't have to exactly describe what's in it; in fact, if your
names is way too descriptive, it may take significantly more brain-cycle
to parse. A good name abstracts the objects contained in it.


From half.italian at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 17:09:56 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:09:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about getmtime
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2795.1266602798.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2f56a4b1-4f2b-4ec9-827b-e6d4e5d52f7d@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 10:06?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Brandon wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
>
> > Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
> > os.path.getmtime(path)?
>
> The modification time of a copied file should be the same as the
> original.
>
> The creation time of a copied file will be the time at which it was
> copied, so that can result in the paradoxical state of a file having
> been modified _before_ it was created! :-)

ctime does not stand for creation time.  I went through this a couple
of months ago.  It's updated whenever the inode is updated, so
changing permissions, among other things will update it.

It blew me away when I finally found this out.

~Sean


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 19 17:12:21 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:12:21 -0800
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002191412u43d6cbd0off090f987e82d61@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:48 PM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> on any site.
<snip>
> Can anyone think of anything I can do to solve this problem? Why would
> firefox be working fine but not Python?
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Based on what you've said, it's possible the school may have blocked
mechanize's User-Agent somehow.
Try spoofing mechanize as Firefox by setting the string for the
User-Agent header to that of Firefox.
See the section "Changing the automatically-added headers
(User-Agent)" on http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize/doc.html
for how to do that.
To see what Firefox's User-Agent is, use http://whatsmyuseragent.com/

Cheers,
Chris
--
Disclaimer: This is not meant to in any way endorse violating AUPs.
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bret.clement at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 17:18:18 2010
From: bret.clement at gmail.com (Bret)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:18:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ActiveState/O'Reilly Launch New and Improved Code Share Site (Python)
Message-ID: <e2d6d01a-6670-4908-8391-65d27d1a10bd@t9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

ActiveState launched today the new code.activestate.com with code
recipes for dynamic languages such as Python, Perl and Tcl and web
development. This site is great recipe sharing site for all Python,
Perl and Tcl developers.

O'Reilly will be use recipes from the site for its next Python cook
book.

Bit.ly link to the blog announcement:
http://bit.ly/b1Wkdm


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Feb 19 18:02:34 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:02:34 +0000
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> was blocking me because of many automated logins.

Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by 
your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.

>
> However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.

As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.

>
> The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> on any site.

Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are 
aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those 
settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by 
a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically 
get an IP address).

> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Matt

Google a bit around how you can figure out (from inside your script) 
whether your used platform has a proxy configured and how to use it with 
your application.

Good luck!

-- 
mph


From jg07024 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 18:16:35 2010
From: jg07024 at gmail.com (John Graves)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:16:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyConPads at PyCon 2010 in Atlanta
Message-ID: <31a94d5f-1304-46fa-9f1b-a4a68b07f6c9@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Couldn't make it to PyCon 2010 in person?  Want to access
collaborative notes taken there?

Watch the short video at http://bit.ly/dgBcpA to see how to find live
notes being taken at the conference on PyConPads. You can chat with --
and thank! -- the note takers.

The site: http://pyconpads.net
Twitter announcements of pads: http://twitter.com/pyconpads


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 18:18:14 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:18:14 +0000
Subject: Question about getmtime
In-Reply-To: <2f56a4b1-4f2b-4ec9-827b-e6d4e5d52f7d@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2795.1266602798.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<2f56a4b1-4f2b-4ec9-827b-e6d4e5d52f7d@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F1C36.4030906@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Sean DiZazzo wrote:
> On Feb 19, 10:06 am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> Brandon wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
>>> os.path.getmtime(path)?
>> The modification time of a copied file should be the same as the
>> original.
>>
>> The creation time of a copied file will be the time at which it was
>> copied, so that can result in the paradoxical state of a file having
>> been modified _before_ it was created! :-)
> 
> ctime does not stand for creation time.  I went through this a couple
> of months ago.  It's updated whenever the inode is updated, so
> changing permissions, among other things will update it.
> 
> It blew me away when I finally found this out.
> 
On Windows ctime doesn't change when the file permissions are changed.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Feb 19 18:36:50 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:36:50 -0800
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:

> In reference to the several comments about "[x for x in read] is basically
> a copy of the entire list. This isn't necessary." or list(read). I had
> thought I had a problem with having iterators in the takewhile() statement.
> I thought I testes and it didn't work. It seems I was wrong. It clearly
> works. I'll make this change and see if it is any better.
>
> I actually don't plan to read them all in at once, only as needed, but I do
> need the whole file in an array to perform some mathematics on them and
> compare different files. So my interest was in making it faster to open them
> as needed. I guess part of it is that they are about 5mb so I guess it might
> be disk speed in part.nks
>
>

Record your numbers in an array and then work your magic on them later.
Don't store the entire file in memory, though.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 19 19:15:07 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 16:15:07 -0800
Subject: How to use python to register a service (an existing .exe file)
References: <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hln9ib$dp4$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc at news.free.fr>,
News123  <news123 at free.fr> wrote:

>Is there a python way to register new windows services.
>
>I am aware of the
>instsrv.exe program, which can be used to install services.
>I could use subprocess.Popen to call
>
>instsrv.exe "service_name" program.exe
>
>but wondered, whether there's already an existing function.

Use the win32 package.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 19:20:53 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 6:02?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
wrote:
> On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
>
> > Hey all,
>
> > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by
> your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.
>
>
>
> > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.
>
>
>
> > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> > on any site.
>
> Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are
> aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
> settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by
> a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically
> get an IP address).
>
> > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> > Matt
>
> Google a bit around how you can figure out (from inside your script)
> whether your used platform has a proxy configured and how to use it with
> your application.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --
> mph

Hey all,

I've used httpfox to identify the precise headers being sent by
firefox, and then added them to my program using br.addheaders(), as
per the proper mechanize syntax. No dice. (In fact, these headers were
in the program when I ran it successfully from my friend's computer at
his apartment). So I'm pretty sure it's not a header issue.

I'll check and see whether firefox and my system are using a proxy.

Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
programming noob. I am not doing anything that I can't do myself from
firefox (ie, I have an account at the school, and am allowed to sign
on with my name and password and look up information in the student
directory). If I do it for more than one student, it just becomes
repetitive, so I thought this was a first modest goal in learning to
do some programming.)

That said, I'm happy to discontinue the attempts, but I'd like to know
how it is that my computer (unless using firefox) is completely
blocked from opening urls from within python. (And how to fix it).

Thanks for the continued help.


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 20:06:45 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 7:20?pm, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 6:02?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
>
> > > Hey all,
>
> > > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> > > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> > > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> > > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> > > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> > Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by
> > your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.
>
> > > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> > > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> > > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> > > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> > > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> > As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.
>
> > > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> > > on any site.
>
> > Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are
> > aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
> > settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by
> > a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically
> > get an IP address).
>
> > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> > > Matt
>
> > Google a bit around how you can figure out (from inside your script)
> > whether your used platform has a proxy configured and how to use it with
> > your application.
>
> > Good luck!
>
> > --
> > mph
>
> Hey all,
>
> I've used httpfox to identify the precise headers being sent by
> firefox, and then added them to my program using br.addheaders(), as
> per the proper mechanize syntax. No dice. (In fact, these headers were
> in the program when I ran it successfully from my friend's computer at
> his apartment). So I'm pretty sure it's not a header issue.
>
> I'll check and see whether firefox and my system are using a proxy.
>
> Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
> that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
> programming noob. I am not doing anything that I can't do myself from
> firefox (ie, I have an account at the school, and am allowed to sign
> on with my name and password and look up information in the student
> directory). If I do it for more than one student, it just becomes
> repetitive, so I thought this was a first modest goal in learning to
> do some programming.)
>
> That said, I'm happy to discontinue the attempts, but I'd like to know
> how it is that my computer (unless using firefox) is completely
> blocked from opening urls from within python. (And how to fix it).
>
> Thanks for the continued help.

Breakthrough:

I tried switching from a wireless connection to my router, and instead
used an ethernet connection -- and now everything works.

Why would this make a difference? MAC address? Is it possible for an
external server to see my MAC address and block it? Clearly wasn't an
IP address issue!



From livingstonemark at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 20:15:33 2010
From: livingstonemark at gmail.com (Mark Livingstone)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:15:33 +1000
Subject: Looking for crossfold validation code
Message-ID: <d9183eda1002191715x2a9c19dr9715e6fe7a137f9c@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am doing research as part of a Uni research Scholarship into using
data compression for classification. What I am looking for is python
code to handle the crossfold validation side of things for me - that
will take my testing / training corpus and create the testing /
training files after asking me for number of folds and number of times
(or maybe allow me to enter a random seed or offset instead of times.)
I could then either hook my classifier into the program or use it in a
separate step.

Probably not very hard to write, but why reinvent the wheel ;-)

Thanks in advance,

MarkL


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 19 20:28:04 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:28:04 -0800
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002191728i698a919cgc2e2d3286a5d918c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:06 PM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 7:20?pm, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 19, 6:02?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
>> wrote:
>> > On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
>> > > Hey all,
>>
>> > > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
>> > > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>>
>> > > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
>> > > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
>> > > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>>
>> > Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by
>> > your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.
>>
>> > > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
>> > > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
>> > > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
>> > > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
>> > > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>>
>> > As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.
>>
>> > > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
>> > > on any site.
>>
>> > Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are
>> > aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
>> > settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by
>> > a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically
>> > get an IP address).
>>
>> > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
<snip>
> Breakthrough:
>
> I tried switching from a wireless connection to my router, and instead
> used an ethernet connection -- and now everything works.
>
> Why would this make a difference? MAC address? Is it possible for an
> external server to see my MAC address and block it? Clearly wasn't an
> IP address issue!

If you're using the campus network and depending on the exact network
details, yes, they very likely can know your MAC address and thus
block it.
Since your Wi-Fi card and Ethernet card have different hardware MAC
addresses, yes, switching would change your visible MAC address, thus
circumventing any blocks based on it.

Cheers,
Chris
--
Hi ACMS!
http://blog.rebertia.com


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:25:40 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:55:40 +0530
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>

In the following code sample :


def dirname(p):

    """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
    i = p.rfind('/') + 1

    head = p[:i]
    if head and head != '/'*len(head):

        head = head.rstrip('/')

    return head

def dirname1(p):
   i = p.rfind('/') + 1

   head = p[:i]
   if head != '/':

        return head.rstrip('/')
   return head




if __name__ == "__main__":
   p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'

   p2 = './'
   p3 = '/'
   p4 = '.'

   print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)

   print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)

   print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)

   print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)


OUTPUT:

/Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
. .
/ /


dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i did
not quite understood the usage of "if head and head != '/'*len(head):"
and replaced it with more obvious way in dirname1().

Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed any
edge cases here ?

Regards,
~l0nwlf
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From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:32:59 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:32:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 8:28?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:06 PM, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 19, 7:20?pm, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 19, 6:02?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
> >> > > Hey all,
>
> >> > > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> >> > > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> >> > > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> >> > > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> >> > > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> >> > Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by
> >> > your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.
>
> >> > > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> >> > > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> >> > > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> >> > > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> >> > > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> >> > As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.
>
> >> > > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> >> > > on any site.
>
> >> > Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are
> >> > aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
> >> > settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by
> >> > a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically
> >> > get an IP address).
>
> >> > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> <snip>
> > Breakthrough:
>
> > I tried switching from a wireless connection to my router, and instead
> > used an ethernet connection -- and now everything works.
>
> > Why would this make a difference? MAC address? Is it possible for an
> > external server to see my MAC address and block it? Clearly wasn't an
> > IP address issue!
>
> If you're using the campus network and depending on the exact network
> details, yes, they very likely can know your MAC address and thus
> block it.
> Since your Wi-Fi card and Ethernet card have different hardware MAC
> addresses, yes, switching would change your visible MAC address, thus
> circumventing any blocks based on it.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> Hi ACMS!http://blog.rebertia.com

Chris,

I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
wireless router at his apartment.

So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
blocked, right?

But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
wireless?


From shearichard at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:39:57 2010
From: shearichard at gmail.com (northof40)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:39:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Capturing errors raised by other scripts ?
Message-ID: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

I'm using the subroutine module to run run python script A.py from
B.py (this is on windows fwiw).

A.py is not my script and it may raise arbitary errors before exiting.
How can I determine what's happened before A.py exited ?

To simulate this I've got this script (which is meant to simulate
A.py):

class customError(Exception):
	def __init__(self, value):
		self.value = value
	def __str__(self):
		return repr(self.value)

try:
	raise customError(2*2)
except customError as e:
	print 'Custom exception occurred, value:', e.value


I then run my A.py like this :

>>> fdOut, fOut = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AOut-')
>>> fdErr, fErr = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AErr-')
>>> try:
...     pathtojob="python.exe A.py"
...     p = subprocess.Popen(pathtojob, stderr=fdErr, stdout=fdOut)
... except:
...     print "bad stuff happened"
...

When I do this I the exception handler is not fired and the text
"Custom exception occurred, value: 4" ends up in the stdout file.

I'd really like it to end up in stderr because then I could say
"anything in stderr ? then ignore the output and flag an error".

I don't want to have to parse the stdout for error like messages and I
can't make changes to A.py.

I'm sure there's a better way to do this - can anyone offer some
advice ?

thanks

Richard.



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:55:23 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:25:23 +0530
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002191855h19dc913du8db3790a7c724162@mail.gmail.com>

try this :

>>> url = 'http://www.google.com'
>>> proxy = {'http': 'http://username:password at proxy:port'}
>>> content = urllib.urlopen(url, proxies = proxy).read()

Hopefully it should run without error.

Second approach can be to check whether your environment variables are
setup. $set will show you. If not the case set up your environment variable.

HTH,

~l0nwlf


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:02 AM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 19, 8:28 pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:06 PM, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 19, 7:20 pm, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Feb 19, 6:02 pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
> > >> > > Hey all,
> >
> > >> > > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> > >> > > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using
> mechanize.
> >
> > >> > > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website,
> returning
> > >> > > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's
> server
> > >> > > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
> >
> > >> > Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed
> by
> > >> > your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of
> it.
> >
> > >> > > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> > >> > > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> > >> > > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place
> (who
> > >> > > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice,
> constant
> > >> > > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
> >
> > >> > As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy
> gateway.
> >
> > >> > > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works
> flawlessly
> > >> > > on any site.
> >
> > >> > Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications
> are
> > >> > aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
> > >> > settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy
> by
> > >> > a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you
> automatically
> > >> > get an IP address).
> >
> > >> > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> > <snip>
> > > Breakthrough:
> >
> > > I tried switching from a wireless connection to my router, and instead
> > > used an ethernet connection -- and now everything works.
> >
> > > Why would this make a difference? MAC address? Is it possible for an
> > > external server to see my MAC address and block it? Clearly wasn't an
> > > IP address issue!
> >
> > If you're using the campus network and depending on the exact network
> > details, yes, they very likely can know your MAC address and thus
> > block it.
> > Since your Wi-Fi card and Ethernet card have different hardware MAC
> > addresses, yes, switching would change your visible MAC address, thus
> > circumventing any blocks based on it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > --
> > Hi ACMS!http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> Chris,
>
> I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
> Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
> by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
> wireless router at his apartment.
>
> So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
> blocked, right?
>
> But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
> school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
> wireless?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 22:05:43 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:05:43 +0000
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> In the following code sample :
> 
> def dirname(p):
> 
>     """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
>     i = p.rfind('/') + 1
> 
>     head = p[:i]
>     if head and head != '/'*len(head):
> 
>         head = head.rstrip('/')
> 
>     return head
> 
> def dirname1(p):
>    i = p.rfind('/') + 1
> 
>    head = p[:i]
>    if head != '/':
> 
>         return head.rstrip('/')    
>    return head
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'
> 
>    p2 = './'
>    p3 = '/'
>    p4 = '.'
> 
>    print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)
> 
>    print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)
> 
>    print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)
> 
>    print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)
> 
> OUTPUT:
> 
> /Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
> . .
> / /
> 
> dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i did not quite understood the usage of "if head and head != '/'*len(head):" and replaced it with more obvious way in dirname1().
> 
> Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed any edge cases here ?
> 
What if the path is '//x'? The current dirname would return '//',
whereas dirname1 would return ''.


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 22:09:05 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:39:05 +0530
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com>

But this is posixpath, right ? So '//x' like path will not occur as far as I
guess ?

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:35 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> In the following code sample :
>>
>> def dirname(p):
>>
>>    """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
>>    i = p.rfind('/') + 1
>>
>>    head = p[:i]
>>    if head and head != '/'*len(head):
>>
>>        head = head.rstrip('/')
>>
>>    return head
>>
>> def dirname1(p):
>>   i = p.rfind('/') + 1
>>
>>   head = p[:i]
>>   if head != '/':
>>
>>        return head.rstrip('/')       return head
>>
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>   p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'
>>
>>   p2 = './'
>>   p3 = '/'
>>   p4 = '.'
>>
>>   print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)
>>
>>   print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)
>>
>>   print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)
>>
>>   print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)
>>
>> OUTPUT:
>>
>> /Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
>> . .
>> / /
>>
>> dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i did not
>> quite understood the usage of "if head and head != '/'*len(head):" and
>> replaced it with more obvious way in dirname1().
>>
>> Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed any edge
>> cases here ?
>>
>>  What if the path is '//x'? The current dirname would return '//',
> whereas dirname1 would return ''.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 22:13:10 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:13:10 +0000
Subject: Capturing errors raised by other scripts ?
In-Reply-To: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F5346.9060308@mrabarnett.plus.com>

northof40 wrote:
> I'm using the subroutine module to run run python script A.py from
> B.py (this is on windows fwiw).
> 
> A.py is not my script and it may raise arbitary errors before exiting.
> How can I determine what's happened before A.py exited ?
> 
> To simulate this I've got this script (which is meant to simulate
> A.py):
> 
> class customError(Exception):
> 	def __init__(self, value):
> 		self.value = value
> 	def __str__(self):
> 		return repr(self.value)
> 
> try:
> 	raise customError(2*2)
> except customError as e:
> 	print 'Custom exception occurred, value:', e.value
> 
> 
> I then run my A.py like this :
> 
>>>> fdOut, fOut = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AOut-')
>>>> fdErr, fErr = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AErr-')
>>>> try:
> ...     pathtojob="python.exe A.py"
> ...     p = subprocess.Popen(pathtojob, stderr=fdErr, stdout=fdOut)
> ... except:
> ...     print "bad stuff happened"
> ...
> 
> When I do this I the exception handler is not fired and the text
> "Custom exception occurred, value: 4" ends up in the stdout file.
> 
> I'd really like it to end up in stderr because then I could say
> "anything in stderr ? then ignore the output and flag an error".
> 
> I don't want to have to parse the stdout for error like messages and I
> can't make changes to A.py.
> 
> I'm sure there's a better way to do this - can anyone offer some
> advice ?
> 
> thanks
> 
A.py is printing the error message.

The 'print' statement prints to stdout unless you direct it elsewhere
with '>>', for example:

     print >> my_file, 'message'

If you don't want error messages to go to stdout, then don't print them
to stdout, it's as simple as that!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 22:17:09 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:17:09 +0000
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> But this is posixpath, right ? So '//x' like path will not occur as far 
> as I guess ?
> 
Can you guarantee that? It's safer to just leave it as it is, just in
case! :-)

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:35 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com 
> <mailto:python at mrabarnett.plus.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Shashwat Anand wrote:
> 
>         In the following code sample :
> 
>         def dirname(p):
> 
>            """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
>            i = p.rfind('/') + 1
> 
>            head = p[:i]
>            if head and head != '/'*len(head):
> 
>                head = head.rstrip('/')
> 
>            return head
> 
>         def dirname1(p):
>           i = p.rfind('/') + 1
> 
>           head = p[:i]
>           if head != '/':
> 
>                return head.rstrip('/')       return head
> 
>         if __name__ == "__main__":
>           p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'
> 
>           p2 = './'
>           p3 = '/'
>           p4 = '.'
> 
>           print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)
> 
>           print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)
> 
>           print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)
> 
>           print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)
> 
>         OUTPUT:
> 
>         /Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
>         . .
>         / /
> 
>         dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i
>         did not quite understood the usage of "if head and head !=
>         '/'*len(head):" and replaced it with more obvious way in dirname1().
> 
>         Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed
>         any edge cases here ?
> 
>     What if the path is '//x'? The current dirname would return '//',
>     whereas dirname1 would return ''.
> 



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 22:21:00 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:51:00 +0530
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002191921w4dbe40c9s338796fa225a5bb5@mail.gmail.com>

basically I infer that : dirname = path - basename, like for path =  '//x',
basename = x, hence dirname = '//'

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:47 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> But this is posixpath, right ? So '//x' like path will not occur as far as
>> I guess ?
>>
>>  Can you guarantee that? It's safer to just leave it as it is, just in
> case! :-)
>
>
>  On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:35 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com<mailto:
>> python at mrabarnett.plus.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>
>>        In the following code sample :
>>
>>        def dirname(p):
>>
>>           """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
>>           i = p.rfind('/') + 1
>>
>>           head = p[:i]
>>           if head and head != '/'*len(head):
>>
>>               head = head.rstrip('/')
>>
>>           return head
>>
>>        def dirname1(p):
>>          i = p.rfind('/') + 1
>>
>>          head = p[:i]
>>          if head != '/':
>>
>>               return head.rstrip('/')       return head
>>
>>        if __name__ == "__main__":
>>          p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'
>>
>>          p2 = './'
>>          p3 = '/'
>>          p4 = '.'
>>
>>          print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)
>>
>>          print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)
>>
>>          print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)
>>
>>          print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)
>>
>>        OUTPUT:
>>
>>        /Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
>>        . .
>>        / /
>>
>>        dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i
>>        did not quite understood the usage of "if head and head !=
>>        '/'*len(head):" and replaced it with more obvious way in
>> dirname1().
>>
>>        Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed
>>        any edge cases here ?
>>
>>    What if the path is '//x'? The current dirname would return '//',
>>    whereas dirname1 would return ''.
>>
>>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 22:33:57 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Feb 2010 03:33:57 GMT
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
Message-ID: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test 
into a class attribute, as follows:

class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
    target = mymodule.someclass

    def test_spam(self):
        """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
        self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))


It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:

class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
    target = mymodule.function

    def test_foo(self):
        self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')

The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not 
a standalone function, and I get errors like:

TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)

The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this 
class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I 
don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the 
function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather 
than just one.

Are there any better solutions?


-- 
Steven


From shearichard at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 22:39:23 2010
From: shearichard at gmail.com (northof40)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Capturing errors raised by other scripts ?
References: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2822.1266635587.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ddec8f68-25f4-4291-be60-4209da4b8d6d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 4:13?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> northof40 wrote:
> > I'm using the subroutine module to run run python script A.py from
> > B.py (this is on windows fwiw).
>
> > A.py is not my script and it may raise arbitary errors before exiting.
> > How can I determine what's happened before A.py exited ?
>
> > To simulate this I've got this script (which is meant to simulate
> > A.py):
>
> > class customError(Exception):
> > ? ?def __init__(self, value):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?self.value = value
> > ? ?def __str__(self):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?return repr(self.value)
>
> > try:
> > ? ?raise customError(2*2)
> > except customError as e:
> > ? ?print 'Custom exception occurred, value:', e.value
>
> > I then run my A.py like this :
>
> >>>> fdOut, fOut = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AOut-')
> >>>> fdErr, fErr = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AErr-')
> >>>> try:
> > ... ? ? pathtojob="python.exe A.py"
> > ... ? ? p = subprocess.Popen(pathtojob, stderr=fdErr, stdout=fdOut)
> > ... except:
> > ... ? ? print "bad stuff happened"
> > ...
>
> > When I do this I the exception handler is not fired and the text
> > "Custom exception occurred, value: 4" ends up in the stdout file.
>
> > I'd really like it to end up in stderr because then I could say
> > "anything in stderr ? then ignore the output and flag an error".
>
> > I don't want to have to parse the stdout for error like messages and I
> > can't make changes to A.py.
>
> > I'm sure there's a better way to do this - can anyone offer some
> > advice ?
>
> > thanks
>
> A.py is printing the error message.
>
> The 'print' statement prints to stdout unless you direct it elsewhere
> with '>>', for example:
>
> ? ? ?print >> my_file, 'message'
>
> If you don't want error messages to go to stdout, then don't print them
> to stdout, it's as simple as that!

Thanks for your reply. I take your point about print - perhaps I
hadn't really thought that through. Unfortunately I don't have control
of the real script that's being run so if the programmer of that
script has used print there's nothing I can do about it.

Perhaps I could modify the question. If A.py terminates due an
unhandled exception is there anyway for B.py to know that's happened
(without A.py's cooperation ?).

thanks

Richard.


If A.py terminates due to an unhandled exception


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:18:12 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:18:12 -0500
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
In-Reply-To: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002192018n6547a63ete67d99ab1f59a724@mail.gmail.com>

this is somewhat hackish:

In [1]: def test():
   ...:     print 'spam'
   ...:
   ...:

In [20]: class Ham():
   ....:     target = {'target': test}
   ....:     def test_eggs(self):
   ....:         self.target['target']()
   ....:
   ....:

In [21]: h = Ham()

In [22]: h.test_eggs()
spam


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test
> into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
>    target = mymodule.someclass
>
>    def test_spam(self):
>        """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
>        self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
>    target = mymodule.function
>
>    def test_foo(self):
>        self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
>
> The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not
> a standalone function, and I get errors like:
>
> TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
>
> The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this
> class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I
> don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the
> function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather
> than just one.
>
> Are there any better solutions?
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:37:56 2010
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:37:56 +1100
Subject: Trouble running pywin32-214.win-amd64-py3.1 on 64-bit Windows
 7
In-Reply-To: <5cf1aff91002191035o7c65df3bjfb4f26805923ea0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5cf1aff91002191035o7c65df3bjfb4f26805923ea0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F6724.5070505@gmail.com>

On 20/02/2010 5:35 AM, Steven Cohen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I downloaded pywin32-214.win-amd64-py3.1, and it installs just fine
> (except that it prints a traceback when it tells me the postinstall
> script completed), but then when I try to execute Pythonwin.exe, I get
> the following error popup:
>
> The application can not locate win32ui.pyd (or Python) (126)
> The specified module could not be found
>
> However, the file win32ui.pyd is right there in the same directory from
> which I am executing Pythonwin.exe.  Can anyone help me figure out what
> I am doing wrong here?

The pywin32 post-install script seems to break with the current Python 
3.1 builds, and as a result, the pywin32 DLLs were probably not copied 
correctly.

Try re-executing the post install script by:

* Start a command-prompt by right-clicking on the shortcut and selecting 
'Run as Administrator'.

* Execute '\python31\python.exe \python31\scripts\pywin32_postinstall.py 
-install' (changing the paths as necessary).

It should succeed as it is running from a console, and you might find 
that fixes things.

HTH,

Mark


From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:55:15 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:55:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <65accaff-ab29-4dd4-9995-4ec60a034b56@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 4:28?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 20:32 -0800, CM wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 7:19 pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > > > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > > > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > > > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > > > example, via HTTP/HTTPS). ? Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > > > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.). ?What would
> > > > be the best way to go about doing this?
>
> > > I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> > > you might find it useful:
>
> > > ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
>
> > This looks pretty interesting and useful.
>
> Thanks :-)
>
> > Just to help me understand it a bit more: ?what is it that users will
> > download from some web page in order to initially get the py2exe'd app
> > on their system? ?Is it "really" an "esky", with the app's .exe file
> > inside it (but the esky is named the same as the app)?
>
> Currently, it's just a zip file with the frozen app in it, which the
> user unzips to wherever they want the app. ?When unzipped it looks like
> this:
>
> ? ?myapp.exe ?<-- actually the esky bootstrap exe
> ? ?myapp-X.Y.Z.win32/
> ? ? ? ?myapp.exe ?<-- the actual frozen app as produced by py2exe
> ? ? ? ?python26.dll
> ? ? ? ?...etc...
>
> This could easily be wrapped in an installer - the important thing is
> just that the files end up on the user's machine in the expected
> directory structure.
>
> > ? And then when
> > they want to update, the app's code calls the esky class to do the
> > work of swapping out the appropriate .exe file? ?Something like this?
>
> Yes. ?The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
> application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
> executable file. ?As long as you don't change python versions, this
> allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
> without atomic file replacement.
>
> So the frozen app does this in a background thread:
>
> ? ?Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()
>
> And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
> unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory. ?Et
> viola, your app is at the latest version.
>
> From the packager's point of view, you run the "bdist_esky" distutils
> command to generate the zipfile containing your latest version, then
> simply upload it to your server.
>
> > Would this also work if one used InnoSetup to install the exe on the
> > user's system?
>
> Yes, absolutely - in fact I plan to do this myself at some stage. ?All
> that's required is that the files end up in the expected directory
> structure.
>
> ? ?Ryan

Wow, it sounds great.  Good luck with moving forward with it.  I'm not
quite ready to release any apps, but as (if?) I come up on that, and
if I plan on updating them, I would love to make use of Esky.  Thanks
for doing this. :D

Che


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 19 23:55:56 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:55:56 +1100
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87r5og8q03.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> I have a convention when writing unit tests

Incidentally, you may be interested in the specific forum for testing in
Python <URL:http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/testing-in-python> that is a
good resource for asking questions like this.

> to put the target of the test into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.someclass
>
>     def test_spam(self):
>         """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
>         self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.function
>
>     def test_foo(self):
>         self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')

I think this is because you're binding the ?target? attribute at the
class definition, binding it to that class.

Instead, this smells like something that should be a fixture for each
test case::

    class SomeClassTestCase(unittest.TestCase):

        def setUp(self):
            """ Set up test fixtures. """
            self.target = mymodule.SomeClass

        def test_has_spam(self):
            """ Should have a spam attribute. """
            self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))

        def test_has_no_bacon(self):
            """ Should not have a bacon attribute. """
            self.failIf(hasattr(self.target, 'bacon'))


    class SomeFunctionTest(unittest.TestCase):

        def setUp(self):
            """ Set up test fixtures. """
            self.target = mymodule.some_function

        def test_a_b_input_returns_foo(self):
            """ Should return 'foo' from 'a', 'b' inputs. """
            self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')

        def test_c_d_input_raises_valueerror(self):
            """ Should raise ValueError from 'c', 'd' inputs. """
            self.assertRaises(
                ValueError,
                self.target, 'c', 'd')

-- 
 \        ?A free press is one where it's okay to state the conclusion |
  `\                      you're led to by the evidence.? ?Bill Moyers |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:59:55 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:59:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <f439ee65-8a7f-4add-8c29-b60877b45eb5@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 4:42?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> On 2/19/2010 10:56 AM, CM wrote:
>
> > On Feb 19, 12:21 pm, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com> ?wrote:
> >> On 2/19/2010 7:16 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:> ?Andre Engels wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence
> >>>> <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk> ?wrote:
> >>>>> Andre Engels wrote:
> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson<wolftra... at invalid.com>
>
> >> ...
> >> tories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*. Then the OP> ?would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.
>
> >>> HTH.
>
> >>> Mark Lawrence
>
> >> Here's the answer. Consider this folder.
>
> >> Afolder
> >> ? ? abc.py
> >> ? ? hello.py
>
> >> I now apply py2exe steps to produce an ?"executable" for abc. The folder
> >> now changes to
>
> >> Afolder
> >> ? ? build
> >> ? ? dist
> >> ? ? abc.py
> >> ? ? hello.py
>
> >> build are two new folders. dist contains abc.exe.
>
> >> Somehow when I type abc at the command prompt, this follows a path to
> >> dist, and finds abc.exe, where it executes properly.
> >> Cute, eh? I have no explanation for it.
>
> > Are you sure it's executing abc.exe? ?If you are at a Python command
> > prompt within the "DOS shell" and you just type just abc, I think what
> > is happening is you are running abc.py, NOT abc.exe.
>
> > py2exe creates a dist folder (short for "distributables") by default
> > and puts your .exe into it along with whatever other files are needed
> > to run your application. ?Depending on how you set the bundling
> > options, this may be a lot of things or just 1-2 other things.
>
> > Che
>
> Well, you are right. What proof do I have? In fact, I just tried to run
> a program that was not converted, and left off py. It worked.
>
> So maybe the only way to execute the compiled code is to to to dist?

Not sure about that last question, but just try double-clicking on
the .exe file in dist and your app should run.  In fact, copy that
dist folder to a flash drive, plug it into another computer that
doesn't have Python installed on it, and doubleclick it again--it'll
run again.  In fact, depending on how you bundled it, you might need
only the .exe file on many computers that have the Windows dlls
already available.

Che


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 00:26:46 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:26:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <17d79b9e-0f06-4885-bb52-9cc06312f403@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

"W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> So maybe the only way to execute the compiled code is to [g]o to dist?

Or the compiled code needs to be in a folder that's higher in your
path settings than the python file.

But yes, moving into the dist directory, or running 'dist/snowball'
from the project root will do the trick.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 00:38:31 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:38:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<17d79b9e-0f06-4885-bb52-9cc06312f403@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85adff5e-fc5e-4296-9408-b44f4b3dc207@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 3:26?pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> or running 'dist/snowball'

That should, of course, be: 'dist\snowball' :)


From keekychen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 00:38:47 2010
From: keekychen at gmail.com (Kee K Y CHEN)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:38:47 +0800
Subject: Can I embedding a (python) console on python program?
Message-ID: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>

HI All,

Apologize for being a newbie to python area and sorry for my English. 

Actually what I need is embedding a python interactive console(or other
shell console alike module) on my python program for debugging and
controlling purpose during the program runtime. 

For example, print/set some important value, query some runtime status
when I remote login to host via telnet/ssh when the program running on
the host. One of the idea is I can write the program use the GUI tech,
but that is not fit for someone use a text based session.

In summary, in my scheme, it should something looks like the GEdit
extension - python console and but may interactive with tty/vty lines.

Can anyone give a brief to me? 

Thanks in advance.  

-- 
Kee K Y CHEN <keekychen at gmail.com>



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 00:53:00 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:23:00 +0530
Subject: Can I embedding a (python) console on python program?
In-Reply-To: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>
References: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002192153t5c510dcek9a3b7aef996be4da@mail.gmail.com>

I am not sure what you are looking for, but you can try looking at 'cmd
module'

~l0nwlf

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Kee K Y CHEN <keekychen at gmail.com> wrote:

> HI All,
>
> Apologize for being a newbie to python area and sorry for my English.
>
> Actually what I need is embedding a python interactive console(or other
> shell console alike module) on my python program for debugging and
> controlling purpose during the program runtime.
>
> For example, print/set some important value, query some runtime status
> when I remote login to host via telnet/ssh when the program running on
> the host. One of the idea is I can write the program use the GUI tech,
> but that is not fit for someone use a text based session.
>
> In summary, in my scheme, it should something looks like the GEdit
> extension - python console and but may interactive with tty/vty lines.
>
> Can anyone give a brief to me?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> Kee K Y CHEN <keekychen at gmail.com>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Sat Feb 20 01:28:17 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:28:17 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87eikjcuzk.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlnve2$fjt$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <87eikjcuzk.fsf at benfinney.id.au>, Ben Finney wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
> 
>> In message <hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
>>
>> > Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
>>
>> Is this a function?
>>
>>     lambda : None
>>
>> What about this?
>>
>>     lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")
> 
> They are both lambda forms in Python. As a Python expression, they
> evaluate to (they ?return?) a function object.

So there is no distinction between functions and procedures, then?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Sat Feb 20 01:29:20 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:29:20 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlnvg1$fjt$4@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-
b232026241c6 at q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Steve Howell wrote:

> Some people make the definition of function more restrictive--"if it
> has side effects, it is not a function."

Does changing the contents of CPU cache count as a side-effect?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Sat Feb 20 01:30:26 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:30:26 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst>
Message-ID: <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:

> In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
> no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
> procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
> an explicit return value it returns None.

If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should 
it distinguish between statements and expressions?


From krishna.k.0001 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 01:36:28 2010
From: krishna.k.0001 at gmail.com (krishna)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:36:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Scalable python dict {'key_is_a_string': [count, some_val]}
Message-ID: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I have to manage a couple of dicts with huge dataset (larger than
feasible with the memory on my system), it basically has a key which
is a string (actually a tuple converted to a string) and a two item
list as value, with one element in the list being a count related to
the key. I have to at the end sort this dictionary by the count.

The platform is linux. I am planning to implement it by setting a
threshold beyond which I write the data into files (3 columns: 'key
count some_val' ) and later merge those files (I plan to sort the
individual files by the key column and walk through the files with one
pointer per file and merge them; I would add up the counts when
entries from two files match by key) and sorting using the 'sort'
command. Thus the bottleneck is the 'sort' command.

Any suggestions, comments?

By the way, is there a linux command that does the merging part?

Thanks,
Krishna




From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb 20 01:47:41 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:47:41 -0800
Subject: Scalable python dict {'key_is_a_string': [count, some_val]}
References: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xzl34pfn6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

krishna <krishna.k.0001 at gmail.com> writes:
> entries from two files match by key) and sorting using the 'sort'
> command. Thus the bottleneck is the 'sort' command.

That is a good approach.   The sort command is highly optimized and will
beat any Python program that does something comparable.  Set LC_ALL=C if
the file is all ascii, since that will bypass a lot of slow Unicode
conversion and make sorting go even faster.

> By the way, is there a linux command that does the merging part?

sort -m

Note that the sort command already does external sorting, so if you
can just write out one large file and sort it, instead of sorting and
then merging a bunch of smaller files, that may simplify your task.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Feb 20 02:02:18 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:02:18 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87eikjcuzk.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hlnve2$fjt$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87eikg8k5h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> So there is no distinction between functions and procedures, then?

In Python, no.

-- 
 \         ?When we pray to God we must be seeking nothing ? nothing.? |
  `\                                          ?Saint Francis of Assisi |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:02:41 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:02:41 +1100
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7f892c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 13:32, MattB wrote:
> 
> I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
> Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
> by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
> wireless router at his apartment.
> 
> So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
> blocked, right?
> 
> But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
> school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
> wireless?

MAC or IP blocking can't be the reason, as the OP stated, he can use
Firefox just fine.

Can you access, say, http://www.google.com from urllib or mechanize?

If you can't access *any website* using urllib/mechanize but you can
with a browser and you're on a unix-based machine, you probably have the
same problem as I used to have. Check whether you used the same hostname
in /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts (or wherever your distro saves
its hostname configurations, I use Gentoo); after editing those files
reboot (there are ways to avoid reboot, but rebooting guarantees the
conf file is reread).

Check the hostname by running this python script:

import socket
hn = socket.gethostname()
print hn
print socket.gethostbyname(hn) # should be 127.0.0.1


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Feb 20 02:04:00 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:04:00 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87aav48k2n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why
> should it distinguish between statements and expressions?

I don't see the connection between those two predicates. Why does the
former matter when determining the ?should? of the latter?

-- 
 \        ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?Wuh, I think |
  `\   so, Brain, but wouldn't anything lose its flavor on the bedpost |
_o__)                               overnight?? ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 20 02:12:55 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:12:55 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <87aav48k2n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> <87aav48k2n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlo23b$kiu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
> 
>> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why
>> should it distinguish between statements and expressions?
> 
> I don't see the connection between those two predicates. Why does the
> former matter when determining the ?should? of the latter?
> 
Because s similar dichotomy exists between the two pairs.

Procedure <= function not returning a value
Statement <= expression not returning a value

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 02:13:36 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:13:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr> 
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<87eikjcuzk.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hlnve2$fjt$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <f1c5f4c9-a18f-4662-b4d4-ab26cb2b729c@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 1:28?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <87eikjcuzk.... at benfinney.id.au>, Ben Finney wrote:
>
>
>
> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>
> >> In message <hlhdsi$2p... at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
>
> >> > Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
>
> >> Is this a function?
>
> >> ? ? lambda : None
>
> >> What about this?
>
> >> ? ? lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")
>
> > They are both lambda forms in Python. As a Python expression, they
> > evaluate to (they ?return?) a function object.
>
> So there is no distinction between functions and procedures, then?

Not in most modern languages, no.  i think the major places they are
differentiated are in functional languages and in pre-1993ish
languages (give or take a few years), neither of which applies to
Python or Ruby.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:16:02 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:16:02 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 17:30, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
> 
>> In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
>> no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
>> procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
>> an explicit return value it returns None.
> 
> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should 
> it distinguish between statements and expressions?

There are non-trivial languages that have been made without procedures
and statements and non-trivial programs written on those languages.
There is technically no need for a lambda that supports statements;
someone could simply write a full-blown Monad framework and all of the
things required for IO Monad and all their syntax sugars up to near a
level of Haskell. Then we can do away with 'def's and all the statements
or make them syntax sugar for the Monads.

Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
then?


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sat Feb 20 02:16:40 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:16:40 +0100
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <4B7EE0B0.5080605@ieee.org>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4B7EE0B0.5080605@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <hlo28n$kol$1@ger.gmane.org>

Dave Angel, 19.02.2010 20:04:
> In that case, consider using RemoveDesktop, which is built into both Xp
> and Vista.

Careful, sounds like malware to me.

Stefan



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 02:17:10 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:17:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 1:30?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
>
> > In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
> > no return value. ?The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
> > procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
> > an explicit return value it returns None.
>
> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should
> it distinguish between statements and expressions?

Because the latter are different in Python (and in Ruby, and in most
modern languages), while the former aren't distinguished in Python or
Ruby or most modern languages?  Primarily functional languages are the
main exception, but other than them it's pretty uncommon to find any
modern language that does distinguish procedures and functions, or one
that doesn't distinguished statements and expressions.

You can certainly find exceptions, but distinguishing statements and
expressions is absolutely commonplace in modern languages, and
distinguishing functions and procedures is in the minority.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:24:13 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:24:13 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7f8e38$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 18:17, sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 20, 1:30 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
>>
>>> In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
>>> no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
>>> procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
>>> an explicit return value it returns None.
>>
>> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should
>> it distinguish between statements and expressions?
> 
> Because the latter are different in Python (and in Ruby, and in most
> modern languages), while the former aren't distinguished in Python or
> Ruby or most modern languages?  Primarily functional languages are the
> main exception, but other than them it's pretty uncommon to find any
> modern language that does distinguish procedures and functions, or one
> that doesn't distinguished statements and expressions.
> 
> You can certainly find exceptions, but distinguishing statements and
> expressions is absolutely commonplace in modern languages, and
> distinguishing functions and procedures is in the minority.

But it all boils down to "Although practicality beats purity."


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 02:27:56 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:27:56 -0800
Subject: Scalable python dict {'key_is_a_string': [count, some_val]}
In-Reply-To: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002192327v364fd099r242b97a6316f6051@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:36 PM, krishna <krishna.k.0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have to manage a couple of dicts with huge dataset (larger than
> feasible with the memory on my system), it basically has a key which
> is a string (actually a tuple converted to a string) and a two item
> list as value, with one element in the list being a count related to
> the key. I have to at the end sort this dictionary by the count.
>
> The platform is linux. I am planning to implement it by setting a
> threshold beyond which I write the data into files (3 columns: 'key
> count some_val' ) and later merge those files (I plan to sort the
> individual files by the key column and walk through the files with one
> pointer per file and merge them; I would add up the counts when
> entries from two files match by key) and sorting using the 'sort'
> command. Thus the bottleneck is the 'sort' command.
>
> Any suggestions, comments?
>

You should be using BDBs or even something like PostgreSQL. The
indexes there will give you the scalability you need. I doubt you will
be able to write anything that will select, update, insert or delete
data better than what BDBs and PostgreSQL can give you.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:30:21 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:30:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <827dad76-528c-4ae5-9935-88ac35a211a3@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 10:30?pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
>
> > In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
> > no return value. ?The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
> > procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
> > an explicit return value it returns None.
>
> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should
> it distinguish between statements and expressions?

Because the real world works is more complex than simplified one-
sentence generalizations.


Carl Bnkas


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:33:30 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:33:30 +1100
Subject: Can I embedding a (python) console on python program?
In-Reply-To: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>
References: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>
Message-ID: <4b7f9065$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 16:38, Kee K Y CHEN wrote:
> HI All,
> 
> Apologize for being a newbie to python area and sorry for my English. 
> 
> Actually what I need is embedding a python interactive console(or other
> shell console alike module) on my python program for debugging and
> controlling purpose during the program runtime. 
> 
> For example, print/set some important value, query some runtime status
> when I remote login to host via telnet/ssh when the program running on
> the host. One of the idea is I can write the program use the GUI tech,
> but that is not fit for someone use a text based session.
> 
> In summary, in my scheme, it should something looks like the GEdit
> extension - python console and but may interactive with tty/vty lines.
> 
> Can anyone give a brief to me? 
> 
> Thanks in advance.  

Look how IDLE and pdb does it. I believe the `cmd` built-in module is
specifically written for this case.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:36:10 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:36:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<87aav48k2n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2828.1266650055.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ddd4f59a-d158-4291-a187-5397f8a4869b@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 11:12?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>
> >> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why
> >> should it distinguish between statements and expressions?
>
> > I don't see the connection between those two predicates. Why does the
> > former matter when determining the ?should? of the latter?
>
> Because s similar dichotomy exists between the two pairs.
>
> Procedure <= function not returning a value
> Statement <= expression not returning a value

So if your language distinguishes between procedures and functions, it
manifestly has to distinguish between statements and expressions, but
there's no reason that the converse has to be true, expecially if an
expression is a legal statement.


Carl Banks


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 02:53:55 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:53:55 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002192353g5dec316flf34c8aaf14befe88@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
> then?
>

Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in
functional languages.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:04:22 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:04:22 +1100
Subject: Capturing errors raised by other scripts ?
In-Reply-To: <ddec8f68-25f4-4291-be60-4209da4b8d6d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2822.1266635587.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ddec8f68-25f4-4291-be60-4209da4b8d6d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7f97a1$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 14:39, northof40 wrote:
> On Feb 20, 4:13 pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> northof40 wrote:
>>> I'm using the subroutine module to run run python script A.py from
>>> B.py (this is on windows fwiw).
>>
>>> A.py is not my script and it may raise arbitary errors before exiting.
>>> How can I determine what's happened before A.py exited ?
>>
>>> To simulate this I've got this script (which is meant to simulate
>>> A.py):
>>
>>> class customError(Exception):
>>>    def __init__(self, value):
>>>            self.value = value
>>>    def __str__(self):
>>>            return repr(self.value)
>>
>>> try:
>>>    raise customError(2*2)
>>> except customError as e:
>>>    print 'Custom exception occurred, value:', e.value
>>
>>> I then run my A.py like this :
>>
>>>>>> fdOut, fOut = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AOut-')
>>>>>> fdErr, fErr = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AErr-')
>>>>>> try:
>>> ...     pathtojob="python.exe A.py"
>>> ...     p = subprocess.Popen(pathtojob, stderr=fdErr, stdout=fdOut)
>>> ... except:
>>> ...     print "bad stuff happened"
>>> ...
>>
>>> When I do this I the exception handler is not fired and the text
>>> "Custom exception occurred, value: 4" ends up in the stdout file.



>>> I'd really like it to end up in stderr because then I could say
>>> "anything in stderr ? then ignore the output and flag an error".

Not really; not all that is written to stderr signifies errors per se.
Warning and Debugging info are often written to stderr as well.

> Thanks for your reply. I take your point about print - perhaps I
> hadn't really thought that through. Unfortunately I don't have control
> of the real script that's being run so if the programmer of that
> script has used print there's nothing I can do about it.

Tracebacks is almost always written to stderr, not stdout; unless the
programmer explicitly redirect the traceback into stdout.

> Perhaps I could modify the question. If A.py terminates due an
> unhandled exception is there anyway for B.py to know that's happened
> (without A.py's cooperation ?).

A well-behaved program will exit with status code 0; if and only if it
exited cleanly. I believe a python program that exited due to unhandled
exception always return non-zero status code.

However, if the program handled an error and called exit(0) explicitly
or the execution of the program falls to the end of the module; there is
no way to distinguish it from regular clean exit.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:12:48 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:12:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shared web host good citizenship question
Message-ID: <c9bfc235-1374-4dab-8f52-c987bf614116@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

Not specifically Python related but thought I'd ask.

If you have a low-bandwidth website running on a shared web hosting
service as a WSGI server (or FastCGI, or any other interface with its
own process), is it considered a responsible thing for the process to
exit on its own after a period of non-activity, or is that something
best left for the host to manage?

I'd guess that modern web hosts would prefer that processes stay
running, even if they go long periods without use, rather than having
to periodically restart processes.

Carl Banks


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:36:15 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7f892c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 2:02?am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/20/10 13:32, MattB wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
> > Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
> > by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
> > wireless router at his apartment.
>
> > So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
> > blocked, right?
>
> > But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
> > school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
> > wireless?
>
> MAC or IP blocking can't be the reason, as the OP stated, he can use
> Firefox just fine.
>
> Can you access, say,http://www.google.comfrom urllib or mechanize?
>
> If you can't access *any website* using urllib/mechanize but you can
> with a browser and you're on a unix-based machine, you probably have the
> same problem as I used to have. Check whether you used the same hostname
> in /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts (or wherever your distro saves
> its hostname configurations, I use Gentoo); after editing those files
> reboot (there are ways to avoid reboot, but rebooting guarantees the
> conf file is reread).
>
> Check the hostname by running this python script:
>
> import socket
> hn = socket.gethostname()
> print hn
> print socket.gethostbyname(hn) # should be 127.0.0.1

Lie,

Wow. Strangely, that script returned 192.168.1.106. However, in Snow
Leopard's airport settings, if I click on 'advanced' and then
'proxies', the default proxy for 'http' is 127.0.0.1:4444 (and in
these settings, the 'use proxy for http' is checked).

I just tried checking the unix files you mentioned. In etc/hosts, the
following info is displayed:

##
# Host Database
#
# localhost is used to configure the loopback interface
# when the system is booting.  Do not change this entry.
##


127.0.0.1	localhost
255.255.255.255	broadcasthost
::1             localhost
fe80::1%lo0	localhost

Also found a file called ntp-restrict.conf, containing:

# Access restrictions documented in ntp.conf(5) and
# http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/AccessRestrictions
# Limit network machines to time queries only

restrict default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict -6 default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery

# localhost is unrestricted
restrict 127.0.0.1
restrict -6 ::1

includefile /private/etc/ntp.conf

Not sure if these are what I'm looking for -- I'm new to unix so I may
need a bit more hand-holding here.

I appreciate your time and effort.

Matt


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 20 03:44:10 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:44:10 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002200044o263a1bd0wd53d364b3fb49ccb@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:17 PM, sjdevnull at yahoo.com
<sjdevnull at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 1:30?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should
>> it distinguish between statements and expressions?
>
> Because the latter are different in Python (and in Ruby

I think your Ruby assertion needs fact-checking:

irb(main):001:0> a = 7  # assignments have a value
=> 7
irb(main):002:0> puts(b = 42)  # as further proof
42
=> nil
irb(main):003:0> b
=> 42
irb(main):004:0> c = [6,4,5]
=> [6, 4, 5]
irb(main):005:0> if false
irb(main):006:1>   c.reverse!
irb(main):007:1> else
irb(main):008:1*   c.sort!
irb(main):009:1> end  # even the if-else control structure has a value
=> [4, 5, 6]
irb(main):010:0> begin # same with exception handling
irb(main):011:1*    raise "a runtime error"
irb(main):012:1> rescue RuntimeError
irb(main):013:1>   "sounds bad"
irb(main):014:1> end
=> "sounds bad"
irb(main):015:0> def foo # and same with method bodies
irb(main):016:1>   99
irb(main):017:1> end
=> nil
irb(main):018:0> foo
=> 99

Quoth Wikipedia regarding Ruby (programming language):
"For practical purposes there is no distinction between expressions
and statements"

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:59:12 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:29:12 +0530
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7f892c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002200059h4f4822cfh4bf2160c698b2bc7@mail.gmail.com>

throw up your 'ifconfig' and mozilla-proxy output here. It seems you don't
know whether you are using proxy.
For mozilla proxy :
open mozilla -> cmd + "," -> Network -> Settings -> Paste everything that is
there/ may be take a snapshot and upload a link.

~l0nwlf


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 2:06 PM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 20, 2:02 am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 02/20/10 13:32, MattB wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
> > > Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
> > > by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
> > > wireless router at his apartment.
> >
> > > So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
> > > blocked, right?
> >
> > > But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
> > > school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
> > > wireless?
> >
> > MAC or IP blocking can't be the reason, as the OP stated, he can use
> > Firefox just fine.
> >
> > Can you access, say,http://www.google.comfrom urllib or mechanize?
> >
> > If you can't access *any website* using urllib/mechanize but you can
> > with a browser and you're on a unix-based machine, you probably have the
> > same problem as I used to have. Check whether you used the same hostname
> > in /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts (or wherever your distro saves
> > its hostname configurations, I use Gentoo); after editing those files
> > reboot (there are ways to avoid reboot, but rebooting guarantees the
> > conf file is reread).
> >
> > Check the hostname by running this python script:
> >
> > import socket
> > hn = socket.gethostname()
> > print hn
> > print socket.gethostbyname(hn) # should be 127.0.0.1
>
> Lie,
>
> Wow. Strangely, that script returned 192.168.1.106. However, in Snow
> Leopard's airport settings, if I click on 'advanced' and then
> 'proxies', the default proxy for 'http' is 127.0.0.1:4444 (and in
> these settings, the 'use proxy for http' is checked).
>
> I just tried checking the unix files you mentioned. In etc/hosts, the
> following info is displayed:
>
> ##
> # Host Database
> #
> # localhost is used to configure the loopback interface
> # when the system is booting.  Do not change this entry.
> ##
>
>
> 127.0.0.1       localhost
> 255.255.255.255 broadcasthost
> ::1             localhost
> fe80::1%lo0     localhost
>
> Also found a file called ntp-restrict.conf, containing:
>
> # Access restrictions documented in ntp.conf(5) and
> # http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/AccessRestrictions
> # Limit network machines to time queries only
>
> restrict default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
> restrict -6 default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
>
> # localhost is unrestricted
> restrict 127.0.0.1
> restrict -6 ::1
>
> includefile /private/etc/ntp.conf
>
> Not sure if these are what I'm looking for -- I'm new to unix so I may
> need a bit more hand-holding here.
>
> I appreciate your time and effort.
>
> Matt
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From sebastian.noack at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 05:36:04 2010
From: sebastian.noack at googlemail.com (Sebastian Noack)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:36:04 +0100
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
Message-ID: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka>

Hi,

I have a problem using os.pipe() together with os.fork(). Usually when
the writing end of the pipe is closed, the reading end gets EOF. So
subsequent attempts to read data will return an empty string. But when
you call os.fork() after you have created a pipe using os.pipe(), and
read data from the pipe in the child process, when the partent process
has already closed the writing end, the reading end does not get EOF.
Instead of the os.read() call in the child process is blocking.

I am using Linux, so I would like to know if this is a bug in Python or
just weird behaviour under Linux and if it is possible work around it.

Regards
Sebastian Noack


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

import os

def test_pipe_sync():
    pipe = os.pipe()

    os.write(pipe[1], 'Spam')
    os.close(pipe[1])

    print repr(os.read(pipe[0], 4))        # 'Spam' is printed.
    print repr(os.read(pipe[0], 4))        # '' is printed, because of EOF is reached.

def test_pipe_forked():
    pipe = os.pipe()
    pid  = os.fork()

    if pid:
        os.write(pipe[1], 'Spam')
        os.close(pipe[1])

        os.waitpid(pid, 0)
    else:
        print repr(os.read(pipe[0], 4))    # 'Spam' is printed.
        print repr(os.read(pipe[0], 4))    # Nothing is printed and os.read()
                                           # is blocking, eventhough the other
                                           # end of the pipe was closed.

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test_pipe_sync()

    print
    print '-' * 80
    print

    test_pipe_forked()
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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 06:00:34 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:00:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <f59eca17-d398-4fff-8273-0f1b2d2718f5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 20 Feb, 03:33, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test
> into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ? target = mymodule.someclass
>
> ? ? def test_spam(self):
> ? ? ? ? """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
> ? ? ? ? self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ? target = mymodule.function
>
> ? ? def test_foo(self):
> ? ? ? ? self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
>
> The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not
> a standalone function, and I get errors like:
>
> TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
>
> The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this
> class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I
> don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the
> function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather
> than just one.
>
> Are there any better solutions?
>
> --
> Steven

Why not define target in the TestCase.setUp() method?

class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):

    def setUp(self):
        self.target = mymodule.function

    def test_foo(self):
        self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')

--
Arnaud



class
--
Arnaud


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 06:03:47 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:03:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Scalable python dict {'key_is_a_string': [count, some_val]}
References: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cfa1af75-adb5-49d3-9450-582ca11bab9f@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 20 Feb, 06:36, krishna <krishna.k.0... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have to manage a couple of dicts with huge dataset (larger than
> feasible with the memory on my system), it basically has a key which
> is a string (actually a tuple converted to a string) and a two item
> list as value, with one element in the list being a count related to
> the key. I have to at the end sort this dictionary by the count.
>
> The platform is linux. I am planning to implement it by setting a
> threshold beyond which I write the data into files (3 columns: 'key
> count some_val' ) and later merge those files (I plan to sort the
> individual files by the key column and walk through the files with one
> pointer per file and merge them; I would add up the counts when
> entries from two files match by key) and sorting using the 'sort'
> command. Thus the bottleneck is the 'sort' command.
>
> Any suggestions, comments?
>
> By the way, is there a linux command that does the merging part?
>
> Thanks,
> Krishna

Have you looked here? http://docs.python.org/library/persistence.html

--
Arnaud


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 06:17:23 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:17:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue  in python
Message-ID: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone. I think it is  related to the precision with double
arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (https://
www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note : for
all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
Thank you.

__author__="Administrator"
__date__ ="$Feb 19, 2010 3:16:47 PM$"
import math
if __name__ == "__main__":
   n=int(raw_input())
   while(n>0):
       n-=1
       raw_input()
       l=raw_input();
       m=l.split(" ")
       N,K,L=int(m[0]),int(m[1]),int(m[2])
       fwd,bkd=1,1
       s_1,s_2="",""
       if(N<=200):
            for i in range(1,N+1):
                fwd=fwd*i;
            s=str(fwd)
            s_1=s[:K]
       else:
           d_1=(N*math.log(N)-N+0.5*math.log(2*math.pi*N)+(1/12/N)-
(1/360/pow(N,3))+(1/1260/pow(N,5))-(1/1680/pow(N,7))+(1/1188/pow(N,9))-
(691/2730/12/11/pow(N,11))+(7/6/14/13/pow(N,13)))*math.log10(math.e)
           d_2=d_1-int(d_1)+K-1
           fwd=pow(10,d_2)
           #print fwd
           fwd=int(fwd)
           s_1=str(fwd)

       if(N<=500):
           for i in range(1,N+1):
                bkd=bkd*i
                bkd=bkd%pow(10,L)
           if(bkd==0):
                s_2="0"*L
           else:
                s_2=str(bkd)
       else:
               s_2="0"*L

       print s_1+" "+s_2




From sebastian.noack at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 06:52:50 2010
From: sebastian.noack at googlemail.com (Sebastian Noack)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:52:50 +0100
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
In-Reply-To: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka>
References: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka>
Message-ID: <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka>

I have figured out that, you have to close the writing end in the child
process, which is reading from the pipe. Otherwise the underlying pipe
is not going to be closed when the parent process is closing its
writing end. This has nothing to do with Python itself. I have tried
plain C and there it is the same behaviour.

Regards
Sebastian Noack
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From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 07:44:12 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:44:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue in python
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 11:17?am, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello everyone. I think it is ?related to the precision with double
> arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (https://www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note : for
> all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
> in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
> issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
> Thank you.

If I understand you correctly, you're trying to compute the first k
digits in the decimal expansion of N!, with bounds of k <= 15 and 100
<= N < 10**8.  Is that right?

Python's floats simply don't give you enough precision for this:
you'd need to find the fractional part of log10(N!) with >= 15 digits
of precision.  But the integral part needs ~ log10(log10(N!)) digits,
so you end up needing to compute log10(N!) with at least 15 +
log10(log10(N!)) ~ 15 + log10(N) + log10(log10(N)) digits (plus a few
extra digits for safety);  so that's at least 25 digits needed for N
close to 10**8.

The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you allowed
imports?).  Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
integer arithmetic.

--
Mark


From sparks.m at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 09:13:06 2010
From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:13:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13616@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 4:15?pm, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
...
> ? ? def print_numbers()
> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> ? ? ? ? }
> ? ? end

This strikes me as a terrible example. For example, this is
significantly clearer:
    def print_numbers()
        for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]:
            square, cube = n * n, n * n * n
            if square != 25 and cube != 64:
                print n

I /can/ see arguments for ruby style blocks in python, but not for
this sort of thing, or lisp style quoted expressions[1]. ie I can see
situations where you have more complex code in real life where they
will definitely simplify things.

[1] This is perhaps more appropriate because '(a b c) is equivalent
    to (quote a b c), and quote a b c can be viewed as close to
    python's expression "lambda: a b c"

However, I can also see that in simple situations - such as the
example you post - they will have a tendency to make code
significantly less clear/direct.

I suppose, if I have a choice between something (hard being possible &
simple code looking simple) and (hard things being simpler & simple
things looking harder), I'd probably personally choose the former.
This is not because I don't like hard things being simple, but because
I think that simple things are more common and making them look harder
is a mistake.

I'm well aware that's opinion however,

Regards,


Michael.


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 09:42:17 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:12:17 +0530
Subject: Precision issue in python
In-Reply-To: <fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002200642w48897077mff21a8240d359db0@mail.gmail.com>

A quick solution I came out with, no stirling numbers and had tried to avoid
large integer multiplication as much as possible.

import math

for i in range(int(raw_input())):
    n, k, l = [int(i) for i in raw_input().split()]
    e = sum(math.log10(i) for i in range(1, n+1))
    frac_e = e - math.floor(e)
    a = str(10**frac_e * 10**(k - 1)).split('.')[0]

    b  = 1
    for i in range(n, 0, -1):
        b = (b * i) % 10**l
    lb = len(str(b))
    if lb < l:
        b = str(b) + '0'* (l - lb)

    print a, b

~l0nwlf

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Mark Dickinson <dickinsm at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 20, 11:17 am, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hello everyone. I think it is  related to the precision with double
> > arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (
> https://www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note :
> for
> > all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
> > in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
> > issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
> > Thank you.
>
> If I understand you correctly, you're trying to compute the first k
> digits in the decimal expansion of N!, with bounds of k <= 15 and 100
> <= N < 10**8.  Is that right?
>
> Python's floats simply don't give you enough precision for this:
> you'd need to find the fractional part of log10(N!) with >= 15 digits
> of precision.  But the integral part needs ~ log10(log10(N!)) digits,
> so you end up needing to compute log10(N!) with at least 15 +
> log10(log10(N!)) ~ 15 + log10(N) + log10(log10(N)) digits (plus a few
> extra digits for safety);  so that's at least 25 digits needed for N
> close to 10**8.
>
> The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you allowed
> imports?).  Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
> integer arithmetic.
>
> --
> Mark
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From dksreddy at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 09:44:52 2010
From: dksreddy at gmail.com (Sandy)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:44:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Looking for crossfold validation code
References: <mailman.2816.1266628536.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50026db2-ad99-41ac-bad8-ed8da0df6449@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Following is the code I use. I got it from web, but forgot the link.

def k_fold_cross_validation(X, K, randomise = False):
	"""
	Generates K (training, validation) pairs from the items in X.

	Each pair is a partition of X, where validation is an iterable
	of length len(X)/K. So each training iterable is of length
(K-1)*len(X)/K.

	If randomise is true, a copy of X is shuffled before partitioning,
	otherwise its order is preserved in training and validation.
	"""
	if randomise: from random import shuffle; X=list(X); shuffle(X)
	for k in xrange(K):
		training = [x for i, x in enumerate(X) if i % K != k]
		validation = [x for i, x in enumerate(X) if i % K == k]
		yield training, validation


Cheers,
dksr

On Feb 20, 1:15?am, Mark Livingstone <livingstonem... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am doing research as part of a Uni research Scholarship into using
> data compression for classification. What I am looking for is python
> code to handle the crossfold validation side of things for me - that
> will take my testing / training corpus and create the testing /
> training files after asking me for number of folds and number of times
> (or maybe allow me to enter a random seed or offset instead of times.)
> I could then either hook my classifier into the program or use it in a
> separate step.
>
> Probably not very hard to write, but why reinvent the wheel ;-)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> MarkL



From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 10:13:07 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:13:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue in python
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4dd522d4-8c18-4fcd-ba1e-174af9098c02@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 5:44?pm, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 11:17?am, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone. I think it is ?related to the precision with double
> > arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (https://www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note : for
> > all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
> > in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
> > issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
> > Thank you.
>
> If I understand you correctly, you're trying to compute the first k
> digits in the decimal expansion of N!, with bounds of k <= 15 and 100
> <= N < 10**8. ?Is that right?
>
> Python's floats simply don't give you enough precision for this:
> you'd need to find the fractional part of log10(N!) with >= 15 digits
> of precision. ?But the integral part needs ~ log10(log10(N!)) digits,
> so you end up needing to compute log10(N!) with at least 15 +
> log10(log10(N!)) ~ 15 + log10(N) + log10(log10(N)) digits (plus a few
> extra digits for safety); ?so that's at least 25 digits needed for N
> close to 10**8.
>
> The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you allowed
> imports?). ?Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
> integer arithmetic.
>
> --
> Mark

Yes i am trying to first k digits of N!.I will try your method.
Thank you


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Feb 20 10:23:16 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:23:16 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program? (py2exe, graphics)
In-Reply-To: <85adff5e-fc5e-4296-9408-b44f4b3dc207@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<17d79b9e-0f06-4885-bb52-9cc06312f403@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<85adff5e-fc5e-4296-9408-b44f4b3dc207@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hloup9$nge$1@news.eternal-september.org>

This apparently is not quite as easy as the py2exe tutorial suggests 
when MPL is involved. See <http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/MatPlotLib>. 
It looks like I have some reading and work to do.


From malkarouri at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 10:30:54 2010
From: malkarouri at gmail.com (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:30:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <72c74040-620b-4588-aa5e-63282bdacc64@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

Thanks every one for commenting. I guess I misspoke. I meant to say
that the group is not necessarily the best for parts of this question,
so Subhabrata might not get as enthusiastic responses as in some other
lists (which i don't recollect at the moment, sorry). I didn't want to
convey the sense that his question is not welcome, rather that it
might not get a lot of answers.

Thanks Brendon and Steve for the support, and thanks Mark for
correcting my slip.

Regards,

k


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 10:37:52 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:37:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue in python
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4dd522d4-8c18-4fcd-ba1e-174af9098c02@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <27736831-4378-4a07-aa38-8906340ecf62@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 8:13?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 20, 5:44?pm, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 11:17?am, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Hello everyone. I think it is ?related to the precision with double
> > > arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (https://www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note : for
> > > all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
> > > in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
> > > issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > > Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
> > > Thank you.
>
> > If I understand you correctly, you're trying to compute the first k
> > digits in the decimal expansion of N!, with bounds of k <= 15 and 100
> > <= N < 10**8. ?Is that right?
>
> > Python's floats simply don't give you enough precision for this:
> > you'd need to find the fractional part of log10(N!) with >= 15 digits
> > of precision. ?But the integral part needs ~ log10(log10(N!)) digits,
> > so you end up needing to compute log10(N!) with at least 15 +
> > log10(log10(N!)) ~ 15 + log10(N) + log10(log10(N)) digits (plus a few
> > extra digits for safety); ?so that's at least 25 digits needed for N
> > close to 10**8.
>
> > The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you allowed
> > imports?). ?Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
> > integer arithmetic.
>
> > --
> > Mark
>
> Yes i am trying to first k digits of N!.I will try your method.
> Thank you

I am out of luck.I put d_2=d_1-int(d_1)+25 instead of d_2=d_1-
int(d_1)+K-1  but i am getting WA.
"The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you
allowed
imports?).  Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
integer arithmetic. "
I don't know if is possible to import this decimal module but kindly
tell me.Also a bit about log implementation
Thank you


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:00:29 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:30:29 +0530
Subject: Precision issue in python
In-Reply-To: <27736831-4378-4a07-aa38-8906340ecf62@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4dd522d4-8c18-4fcd-ba1e-174af9098c02@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<27736831-4378-4a07-aa38-8906340ecf62@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002200800o3e7dc56gda4549a24e98a708@mail.gmail.com>

> I don't know if is possible to import this decimal module but kindly
> tell me.Also a bit about log implementation
>
Why don't you read about decimal module (there is log too in it) and try
writing your approach here in case it does not work? Or you insist someone
to rewrite your code using decimal module ? :-/

~l0nwlf
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From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:12:01 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:12:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
Message-ID: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello

How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?

Let us consider this:

class C1:

    # Pure virtual
    def cb(self, param1, param2):
        """
        This is a callback

        @param param1: ...
        @param param2: ...
        """
        raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"

# Implementation w/o a 'cb', thus 'cb' should not be used
class C2(C1):
    def __init__(self):
        pass

# Implementation w/ 'cb', thus 'cb' can be used
class C3(C1):
    def __init__(self):
        pass

    def cb(self, param1, param2):
        print "i am c3 cb"

# Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
child classes
def dispatcher(c):
    if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
        c.cb("Hello", "World")

dispatcher(C2())
dispatcher(C3())

What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.

Please advise.


From swrath at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:27:28 2010
From: swrath at gmail.com (sWrath swrath)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:27:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: finding element by tag in xml
Message-ID: <871883dd-eb99-4de4-b70f-df09234c8630@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Hi

I am trying to search an element by tag and new in reading a xml file
(in python). I coded this , but it did not work

----------------------------------------------
'''This is to detect the first element and print out all that element
by tag'''


from xml.dom.minidom import parse
from xml.etree.ElementTree import*

file1="book.xml"
tmptree=ElementTree()
tmptree.parse(file1)
items=root.getiterator()


dom = parse(file1)


#Find tag names
for node in items :
    if node.tag == 'author': #Get tag
        print dom.getElementsByTagName ('book') #Error 1



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
2 Questions

1. Why can't I use dom.getElementsByTagName('book') in #Error 1? How
do i print the elements ?
      Error- AttributeError: ElementTree instance has no attribute
'getElementsByTagName'



Thanks
John


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:38:07 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2808.1266615142.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94febb38-2249-4ba1-872f-4ed11865f046@c28g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 4:32?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 11:08 -0800, T wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 7:19 pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > > > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > > > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > > > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > > > example, via HTTP/HTTPS). ? Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > > > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.). ?What would
> > > > be the best way to go about doing this?
>
> > > I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> > > you might find it useful:
>
> > > ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
>
> > > Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
> > > come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
> > > py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).
>
> > Thanks Ryan..this looks like it could be what I'm looking for, but I'm
> > still a bit unsure of how exactly how it works. ?Do you happen to have
> > an idea approx when the next release w/ tutorial will be out?
>
> If I punt on the py2app support, I should be able to get it done in the
> next 3-4 days. ?I'll send a quick email to python-list when it's ready.
>
> Here's a rough roadmap of where the project is heading:
>
> ? v0.4.0: ?cx_freeze support and a tutorial [the next 3-4 days]
> ? v0.4.1: ?py2app support [the next 2-3 weeks]
> ? v0.5.0: ?differential updates using bsdiff [next few months]
>
> ? Cheers,
>
> ? ? ?Ryan
>
> --
> Ryan Kellyhttp://www.rfk.id.au?| ?This message is digitally signed. Please visit
> r... at rfk.id.au ? ? ? ?| ?http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/for details
>
> ?signature.asc
> < 1KViewDownload

Excellent - I look forward to giving it a try.  Thanks again!


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 11:41:10 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:41:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13616@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d7366d36-1079-4377-8119-b37642bd96d9@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 6:13?am, Michael Sparks <spark... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 4:15?pm, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> > ? ? def print_numbers()
> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> > ? ? ? ? }
> > ? ? end
>
> This strikes me as a terrible example. For example, this is
> significantly clearer:
> ? ? def print_numbers()
> ? ? ? ? for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? square, cube = n * n, n * n * n
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if square != 25 and cube != 64:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print n

This is not an exact translation.  My example prints the cubes.  It is
my fault for using "n" as the parameter in the last block.  I would
rename the parameter to cube.

>
> I /can/ see arguments for ruby style blocks in python, but not for
> this sort of thing, or lisp style quoted expressions[1]. ie I can see
> situations where you have more complex code in real life where they
> will definitely simplify things.
>
> [1] This is perhaps more appropriate because '(a b c) is equivalent
> ? ? to (quote a b c), and quote a b c can be viewed as close to
> ? ? python's expression "lambda: a b c"
>
> However, I can also see that in simple situations - such as the
> example you post - they will have a tendency to make code
> significantly less clear/direct.
>
> I suppose, if I have a choice between something (hard being possible &
> simple code looking simple) and (hard things being simpler & simple
> things looking harder), I'd probably personally choose the former.
> This is not because I don't like hard things being simple, but because
> I think that simple things are more common and making them look harder
> is a mistake.
>


I agree with much of what you are saying.  The example is indeed
terribly contrived.

I'm not sure I agree that there is anything unclear or undirect about
the Ruby, though.  I've been fairly immersed in Ruby code, so maybe
it's been warping my brain, but once you get over the unfamiliarity of
the syntax, you see that there's actually a rhythm to the code.

Setting aside punctuation and parameter lists, the code clearly
expresses the transformations and actions in the natural order that
you'd do them:

   LIST map
          expression
        reject
          criteria
        map
          expression
        each
          statement

In English, for the list elements, map them to tuples of squares and
cubes, reject the oddballs, take the cube, and print it out.

         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
             [n * n, n * n * n]
         }.reject { |square, cube|
             square == 25 || cube == 64
         }.map { |square, cube|
             cube
         }.each { |cube|
             puts cube
         }

For such a small problem, I agree it's verbose.   But it's also
completely flat--you don't need to use an "if" statement to express
the concept of rejection.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Feb 20 11:46:17 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:46:17 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8011D9.40005@v.loewis.de>

lallous wrote:
> Hello
> 
> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?

See, for example

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/266468/

Regards,
Martin


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 20 11:46:42 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:46:42 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 20.02.10 17:12, schrieb lallous:
> Hello
>
> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?
>
> Let us consider this:
>
> class C1:
>
>      # Pure virtual
>      def cb(self, param1, param2):
>          """
>          This is a callback
>
>          @param param1: ...
>          @param param2: ...
>          """
>          raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
>
> # Implementation w/o a 'cb', thus 'cb' should not be used
> class C2(C1):
>      def __init__(self):
>          pass
>
> # Implementation w/ 'cb', thus 'cb' can be used
> class C3(C1):
>      def __init__(self):
>          pass
>
>      def cb(self, param1, param2):
>          print "i am c3 cb"
>
> # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
> child classes
> def dispatcher(c):
>      if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
>          c.cb("Hello", "World")
>
> dispatcher(C2())
> dispatcher(C3())
>
> What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
> if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.
>
> Please advise.

There is nothing more beyond that what you already did. You can raise a 
NotImplementedError for classes that don't implement the method. That's it.

Diez


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Feb 20 12:08:33 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:08:33 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>

>> class C1:
>>
>>      # Pure virtual
>>      def cb(self, param1, param2):
>>          """
>>          This is a callback
>>
>>          @param param1: ...
>>          @param param2: ...
>>          """
>>          raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
>>
>> # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
>> child classes
>> def dispatcher(c):
>>      if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
>>          c.cb("Hello", "World")
>>
>> dispatcher(C2())
>> dispatcher(C3())
>>
>> What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
>> if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.
>>
>> Please advise.
> 
> There is nothing more beyond that what you already did. You can raise a
> NotImplementedError for classes that don't implement the method. That's it.

That's not true. Currently, the hasattr() call would report that cb is
available, when it is actually not implemented. It would be possible to
do something like

  if hasattr(c, 'cb') and not is_pure(c.cb):
      c.cb("Hello", "World")

is_pure could, for example, look at a function attribute of the
callback. You'd write something like

  @pure_virtual
  def cb(self, param1, param2):
      not_implemented

Regards,
Martin


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 20 12:14:04 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:14:04 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <7uajisFvihU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sorry, I totally mis-read the OP, too tired. You are right of course.

Diez


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:17:12 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:17:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue in python
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4dd522d4-8c18-4fcd-ba1e-174af9098c02@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<27736831-4378-4a07-aa38-8906340ecf62@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0550699e-9da7-4b3b-8a0d-f4549a3ddf83@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 3:37?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I don't know if is possible to import this decimal module but kindly
> tell me.Also a bit about log implementation

The decimal module is part of the standard library;  I don't know what
the rules are for SPOJ, but you're already importing the math module,
so at least *some* imports are obviously permitted.  Here's a quick
demonstration of how you might use the decimal module:  you can
probably find ways to tweak it for speed and accuracy.

from decimal import Decimal as D
from decimal import getcontext

getcontext().prec = 100   # working precision = 100 digits

pi =
D('3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459'
 
'2307816406286208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844')
half = D('0.5')
log = D.ln

def logfac(x):
    """Approximation to log(x!), using first few terms of Stirling's
series."""

    x = D(x)
    return log(2*pi)/2 + (x + half)*log(x) - x + \
        1/(12*x) - 1/(360*x**3) + 1/(1260*x**5)

def fac_first_digits(n, k):
    """Get first k decimal digits of n!."""

    log10_nfac = logfac(n)/log(D(10))
    frac = log10_nfac - int(log10_nfac)
    return int(10**(frac - 1 + k))


With the above code I get, for example (with Python 2.6):

>>> fac_first_digits(12345, 15)
344364246918678
>>> from math import factorial
>>> int(str(factorial(12345))[:15])
344364246918678

For small n, you'll need more terms of Stirling's series than I've
used above.  And there's always a small chance that the intermediate
errors involved in the computation might change those first 15
digits;  with a working precision of 100 and lots of terms of
Stirling's series it's a *very* small chance, but it's there.  If you
want something 100% watertight, you'd need to  compute strict upper
and lower bounds for the true result, and increase precision until
those bounds match sufficiently far that you can be sure of the first
k digits being correct.

--
Mark


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:19:27 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:19:27 -0500
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <201002201219.27267.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Saturday 20 February 2010 11:46:42 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Am 20.02.10 17:12, schrieb lallous:
> > Hello
> >
> > How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?
> >
> > Let us consider this:
> >
> > class C1:
> >
> >      # Pure virtual
> >      def cb(self, param1, param2):
> >          """
> >          This is a callback
> >
> >          @param param1: ...
> >          @param param2: ...
> >          """
> >          raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
> >
> > # Implementation w/o a 'cb', thus 'cb' should not be used
> > class C2(C1):
> >      def __init__(self):
> >          pass
> >
> > # Implementation w/ 'cb', thus 'cb' can be used
> > class C3(C1):
> >      def __init__(self):
> >          pass
> >
> >      def cb(self, param1, param2):
> >          print "i am c3 cb"
> >
> > # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
> > child classes
> > def dispatcher(c):
> >      if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
> >          c.cb("Hello", "World")
> >
> > dispatcher(C2())
> > dispatcher(C3())
> >
> > What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
> > if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.
> >
> > Please advise.
> 
> There is nothing more beyond that what you already did. You can raise a
> NotImplementedError for classes that don't implement the method. That's it.
> 
> Diez
> 

Perhaps you could use an easier-to-ask-forgiveness-than-permission idiom?

def dispatcher(c):
	try:
		c.cb("Hello", "World")
	except NotImplementedError:
		pass



----
Rami Chowdhury
"Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information 
available." -- Benford's Law of Controversy
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:35:17 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:35:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
Message-ID: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone!

I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:

((None, u'x', u'y'),
(u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
(u'b', None, 8.0))

I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
header.

For example:
d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }

As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
added to the dictionary.

Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.

How can I possibly do this?

Thank you


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:36:00 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:36:00 +1100
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7f892c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b801d9c@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 19:36, MattB wrote:
> On Feb 20, 2:02 am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/20/10 13:32, MattB wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
>>> Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
>>> by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
>>> wireless router at his apartment.
>>
>>> So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
>>> blocked, right?
>>
>>> But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
>>> school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
>>> wireless?
>>
>> MAC or IP blocking can't be the reason, as the OP stated, he can use
>> Firefox just fine.
>>
>> Can you access, say,http://www.google.comfrom urllib or mechanize?
>>
>> If you can't access *any website* using urllib/mechanize but you can
>> with a browser and you're on a unix-based machine, you probably have the
>> same problem as I used to have. Check whether you used the same hostname
>> in /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts (or wherever your distro saves
>> its hostname configurations, I use Gentoo); after editing those files
>> reboot (there are ways to avoid reboot, but rebooting guarantees the
>> conf file is reread).
>>
>> Check the hostname by running this python script:
>>
>> import socket
>> hn = socket.gethostname()
>> print hn
>> print socket.gethostbyname(hn) # should be 127.0.0.1
> 
> Lie,
> 
> Wow. Strangely, that script returned 192.168.1.106. However, in Snow
> Leopard's airport settings, if I click on 'advanced' and then
> 'proxies', the default proxy for 'http' is 127.0.0.1:4444 (and in
> these settings, the 'use proxy for http' is checked).
> 
> I just tried checking the unix files you mentioned. In etc/hosts, the
> following info is displayed:
> 
> ##
> # Host Database
> #
> # localhost is used to configure the loopback interface
> # when the system is booting.  Do not change this entry.
> ##
> 
> 
> 127.0.0.1	localhost
> 255.255.255.255	broadcasthost
> ::1             localhost
> fe80::1%lo0	localhost
> 
> 
> Not sure if these are what I'm looking for -- I'm new to unix so I may
> need a bit more hand-holding here.

Try the alternatives in this site: http://movealong.org/hostname.html


> Also found a file called ntp-restrict.conf, containing:
>
> # Access restrictions documented in ntp.conf(5) and
> # http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/AccessRestrictions
> # Limit network machines to time queries only
>
> restrict default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
> restrict -6 default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
>
> # localhost is unrestricted
> restrict 127.0.0.1
> restrict -6 ::1
>
> includefile /private/etc/ntp.conf

Not sure if ntp-restrict.conf is a red herring here since its name
implies it's something for NTP (Network Time Protocol, used for time
synchronization)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 12:49:14 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:49:14 +0000
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002191921w4dbe40c9s338796fa225a5bb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191921w4dbe40c9s338796fa225a5bb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B80209A.9080807@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> basically I infer that : dirname = path - basename, like for path =  
> '//x', basename = x, hence dirname = '//'
> 
[snip]
Basically, os.path.dirname() should return the directory name, which
means dropping everything after the last slash, and also the last slash.
However, there's the special case where the name is in the root
directory, and you want to retain the slash(es).

When building a path (os.path.join()) you want to join the parts with a
single slash between them, but there's the special case when a part is
the root directory, and you don't want to add a slash between them, eg
os.part.join('/x', 'y') should return '/x/y', but os.part.join('/', 'x')
should return '/x'.


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:52:49 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:52:49 +0000
Subject: Precision issue in python
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002200642w48897077mff21a8240d359db0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002200642w48897077mff21a8240d359db0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c6f2a5d1002200952i580f5f26ifa69e0fb3d57418b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Shashwat Anand
<anand.shashwat at gmail.com> wrote:
> A quick solution I came out with, no stirling numbers and had tried to avoid
> large integer multiplication as much as possible.
>
> import math
>
> for i in range(int(raw_input())):
> ??? n, k, l = [int(i) for i in raw_input().split()]
> ??? e = sum(math.log10(i) for i in range(1, n+1))
>     frac_e = e - math.floor(e)

This isn't going to give you enough accuracy when n gets large (and
the original problem seems to allow n to be as large as 10**8), for
the reasons I described earlier---that is, Python floats only give you
around 16 decimal digits of precision;  your 'e' value will already
have used up some of those 16 digits before the point, leaving you
fewer than 16 digits of precision after the point, so the absolute
error in frac_e will likely be larger than 1e-15.  That's not good
enough for getting the first 15 digits of 10**frac_e accurately.  For
large n, you'll also be accumulating significant error in the sum.

>     a = str(10**frac_e * 10**(k - 1)).split('.')[0]

The str(...).split('.') here doesn't do a good job of extracting the
integer part when its argument is >= 1e12, since Python produces a
result in scientific notation.  I think you're going to get strange
results when k >= 13.

--
Mark


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 13:00:59 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:00:59 +0000
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
In-Reply-To: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B80235B.2030201@mrabarnett.plus.com>

vsoler wrote:
> Hello everyone!
> 
> I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:
> 
> ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> (u'b', None, 8.0))
> 
> I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
> header.
> 
> For example:
> d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }
> 
> As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
> added to the dictionary.
> 
> Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.
> 
> How can I possibly do this?
> 
> Thank you

Does this help?

matrix = ((None, u'x', u'y'),
(u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
(u'b', None, 8.0))

for row in matrix[1 : ]:
     for col, val in zip(matrix[0][1 : ], row[1 : ]):
         print row[0], col, val


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Sat Feb 20 13:28:16 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:28:16 +0000
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlp9ju$o2d$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/20/10 00:20, MattB wrote:
<cut>
>
> Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
> that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
> programming noob.
<cut>
It wasn't my intention to imply that, rather the opposite, that if some 
BOFH would see your action as misuse (some admins are pretty trigger 
happy), you would expect them to contact you directly (I would).
Even though you are on a wireless there are ways to track you down.
For example I would search my log to see if I can make an association 
between a login to one of my servers and your mac address.

BTW, I always followed the philosophy that learning is much more fun if 
you can brake/blow something up. Thus on my networks all students had a 
lot of freedom to do whatever they think was appropriate but they where 
aware that every action on my network was monitored and logged.

-- 
mph


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Feb 20 13:32:33 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:32:33 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlp9rc$b45$03$1@news.t-online.com>

lallous wrote:

> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?

http://docs.python.org/library/abc.html#abc.abstractmethod

Peter


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 13:34:14 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:04:14 +0530
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <4B80209A.9080807@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191921w4dbe40c9s338796fa225a5bb5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B80209A.9080807@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002201034k136ea48evba9490e362bf0aa4@mail.gmail.com>

got it. thanks. :)


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:19 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> basically I infer that : dirname = path - basename, like for path =
>>  '//x', basename = x, hence dirname = '//'
>>
>>  [snip]
> Basically, os.path.dirname() should return the directory name, which
> means dropping everything after the last slash, and also the last slash.
> However, there's the special case where the name is in the root
> directory, and you want to retain the slash(es).
>
> When building a path (os.path.join()) you want to join the parts with a
> single slash between them, but there's the special case when a part is
> the root directory, and you don't want to add a slash between them, eg
> os.part.join('/x', 'y') should return '/x/y', but os.part.join('/', 'x')
> should return '/x'.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 13:44:29 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:14:29 +0530
Subject: Precision issue in python
In-Reply-To: <5c6f2a5d1002200952i580f5f26ifa69e0fb3d57418b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002200642w48897077mff21a8240d359db0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5c6f2a5d1002200952i580f5f26ifa69e0fb3d57418b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002201044n26815312sce86c5cd4dfc73d5@mail.gmail.com>

@Mark,

The str(...).split('.') here doesn't do a good job of extracting the
> integer part when its argument is >= 1e12, since Python produces a
> result in scientific notation.  I think you're going to get strange
> results when k >= 13.
>

Yeah, you were correct. I tested it for k >= 13, and there were issues i.e.
only one character is printed.
Shashwat-Anands-MacBook-Pro:Desktop l0nwlf$ python CALCULAT.py
3
1000000 12 12
826393051664 000000000000
1000000 13 13
8 0000000000000
100 15 4
9 0000

The logic I tried was : for
alpha = n!
log(alpha) = log(n!)
                = log(n) + log(n-1) + .. log(2) + log(1)
                = e [where e = log(n) + .... + log(1)]

frac_e =  {e} (fractional part of e, like {1.23} = .23)
now last k digits of alpha = 10**frac_e * 10**(k - 1)

As I can see, the method is mathematically sound, and there is precision
issues. Time for code modification.

~l0nwlf
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From mikko at redinnovation.com  Sat Feb 20 13:48:42 2010
From: mikko at redinnovation.com (Mikko Ohtamaa)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:48:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Compiling and running 32-bit Python on 64-bit server?
Message-ID: <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Some server-side Python applications are limited by memory usage
(hint: Zope), because Python effective uses processes and not threads
for multiprocessing. This is especially true for 64-bit platforms,
since Python programs are all about references and objects and 64-bit
effectively doubles reference size.

Some benchmarks 32-bit vs. 64-bit were discussed here:

http://jstahl.org/archives/2010/01/2...ks-python-2-6/

How one could create 32-bit Python run-time enviroment, preferable
virtualenv, on 64-bit Linux (VPS), reducing memory usage? This
environment could actually beat 64-bit in performance, due to better
memory cache use.

I assume this involves having lib32 libs and compiling Python with
some magical switches.

Cheers,
Mikko


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 14:00:06 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:00:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
References: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2841.1266688860.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <22502d6d-18bd-4df7-be80-aa5150e16405@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 7:00?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> vsoler wrote:
> > Hello everyone!
>
> > I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:
>
> > ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> > (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> > (u'b', None, 8.0))
>
> > I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
> > header.
>
> > For example:
> > d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }
>
> > As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
> > added to the dictionary.
>
> > Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.
>
> > How can I possibly do this?
>
> > Thank you
>
> Does this help?
>
> matrix = ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> (u'b', None, 8.0))
>
> for row in matrix[1 : ]:
> ? ? ?for col, val in zip(matrix[0][1 : ], row[1 : ]):
> ? ? ? ? ?print row[0], col, val

and the dictionary?

it is the ultimate goal of what I am intending...

Thank you


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Feb 20 14:13:45 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:13:45 -0800
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
In-Reply-To: <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka>
References: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka> <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka>
Message-ID: <4B803469.7010406@islandtraining.com>

Sebastian Noack wrote:
> I have figured out that, you have to close the writing end in the child
> process, which is reading from the pipe. Otherwise the underlying pipe
> is not going to be closed when the parent process is closing its
> writing end. This has nothing to do with Python itself. I have tried
> plain C and there it is the same behaviour.
>
> Regards
> Sebastian Noack
>   


Correct.  The fork creates two processes with references to the read and 
write ends of the pipe.  Both parent and child processes should close 
the ends they are not using.

Here's a thought:  Consider the subprocess module.   It can do the fork 
and any necessary pipes and can do so in an OS independent way.   It 
might make you life much easier.

Gary Herron



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Feb 20 14:18:05 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:18:05 +0100
Subject: Compiling and running 32-bit Python on 64-bit server?
In-Reply-To: <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B80356D.8000209@v.loewis.de>

> How one could create 32-bit Python run-time enviroment, preferable
> virtualenv, on 64-bit Linux (VPS), reducing memory usage?

I'd install a 32-bit Linux on the hardware, and install a bigmem kernel
if it has more than 3GB of main memory.

> I assume this involves having lib32 libs and compiling Python with
> some magical switches.

The precise set of packages that you will need depends on the specific
Linux distribution. Check whether "gcc -m32" can build a hello-world
program. Then, set CC to "gcc -m32", and follow the build instructions
in Python's README file.

Regards,
Martin


From fallenblood at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 14:25:46 2010
From: fallenblood at gmail.com (egasimus)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:25:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: if not global -- then what?
Message-ID: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
example a class containing program settings, accessible from
everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 14:54:20 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:54:20 +0000
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
In-Reply-To: <22502d6d-18bd-4df7-be80-aa5150e16405@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2841.1266688860.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<22502d6d-18bd-4df7-be80-aa5150e16405@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B803DEC.7060304@mrabarnett.plus.com>

vsoler wrote:
> On Feb 20, 7:00 pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> vsoler wrote:
>>> Hello everyone!
>>> I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:
>>> ((None, u'x', u'y'),
>>> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
>>> (u'b', None, 8.0))
>>> I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
>>> header.
>>> For example:
>>> d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }
>>> As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
>>> added to the dictionary.
>>> Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.
>>> How can I possibly do this?
>>> Thank you
>> Does this help?
>>
>> matrix = ((None, u'x', u'y'),
>> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
>> (u'b', None, 8.0))
>>
>> for row in matrix[1 : ]:
>>      for col, val in zip(matrix[0][1 : ], row[1 : ]):
>>          print row[0], col, val
> 
> and the dictionary?
> 
> it is the ultimate goal of what I am intending...
> 
> Thank you

The difficult bit is working out how to produce the keys and values for
the dict from the tuple of tuples, and I've shown you that. The rest is
straightforward.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 15:00:23 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:00:23 +0000
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B803F57.6010008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

egasimus wrote:
> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from
> everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?

Python's 'global' keyword is global in a file (module), not global
across multiple files, so it would have helped you anyway.

If you want program settings accessible across multiple modules then put
the settings in a module and import that module in any other module that
needs to access them.


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Feb 20 15:00:32 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:00:32 -0800
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B803F60.8010603@islandtraining.com>

egasimus wrote:
> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from
> everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?
>   

Define your "global" in a module (a .py file) and import that wherever 
you need it:

mod.py:
gvar = 123       # A Global (like) value


main.py:
import mod
... mod.gvar ...                # To access the value
... mod.gvar = 456 ...      #To change the value


Using the "global" keyword has nothing to do with this.  And in fact 
Python does not even have global variables in the sense you may be thinking.

If you wish to provide a function in mode.py that sets the value then 
this would fail

mod.py:
gvar=123
def SetGvar(v):
  gvar = v

because the gvar inside the function is local to that function.   This 
is the proper place to use the "global" keyword. 

mode.py:
gvar = 123
def SetGvar(v):
    global gvar   # Makes gvar refer to the (global) module level gvar
    gvar = v

Gary Herron



From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 15:02:46 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:02:46 +0100
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002201202je3ebeddv6f20639146f0b595@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:25 PM, egasimus <fallenblood at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from
> everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

There is probably a smarter way but I would recommend passing a
settings object around.


From ivlenin at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 15:04:21 2010
From: ivlenin at gmail.com (I V)
Date: 20 Feb 2010 21:04:21 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b804045$1@news.x-privat.org>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:12:01 -0800, lallous wrote:
> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?

>From what you want, it seems like you want cb() to not be called if it 
isn't implemented in the derived class; this isn't really what pure 
virtual functions in C++ do - pure virtual functions enforce, at compile 
time, that the derived class implements the method.

If you have a situation when you want to either call a derived class's 
version of cb(), or do nothing, can you not just have an implementation 
of cb() in the base class that does nothing, i.e.

class C1(object):
	def cb(self, param1, param2):
		pass


From cdalten at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 15:46:24 2010
From: cdalten at gmail.com (chad)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:46:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How would I do a continuous write over a pipe in the following 
	code...
Message-ID: <9d0f6456-97c7-4bde-8e07-9576b02f91f9@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Given the following....

#!/usr/bin/python

import subprocess as s

broadcast = s.Popen("echo test | wall", shell=True,stdout=s.PIPE)

out = broadcast.stdout
while 1:
    out
    broadcast.wait()

broadcast.stdout.close()


The code only executes once. What I want to do is be able to
continuously write over the pipe once it is open. I could put
s.Popen() inside the while loop, but that seems a bit too messy. So is
there some way to just open the pipe once, and once it is open, just
continuously write over it vs just opening and closing the pipe every
time?


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:25:53 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:25:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
References: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2841.1266688860.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<22502d6d-18bd-4df7-be80-aa5150e16405@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2845.1266695657.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b3cf1229-72f2-4d48-9e0c-f23165155084@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 8:54?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> vsoler wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 7:00 pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> >> vsoler wrote:
> >>> Hello everyone!
> >>> I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:
> >>> ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> >>> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> >>> (u'b', None, 8.0))
> >>> I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
> >>> header.
> >>> For example:
> >>> d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }
> >>> As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
> >>> added to the dictionary.
> >>> Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.
> >>> How can I possibly do this?
> >>> Thank you
> >> Does this help?
>
> >> matrix = ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> >> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> >> (u'b', None, 8.0))
>
> >> for row in matrix[1 : ]:
> >> ? ? ?for col, val in zip(matrix[0][1 : ], row[1 : ]):
> >> ? ? ? ? ?print row[0], col, val
>
> > and the dictionary?
>
> > it is the ultimate goal of what I am intending...
>
> > Thank you
>
> The difficult bit is working out how to produce the keys and values for
> the dict from the tuple of tuples, and I've shown you that. The rest is
> straightforward.

I'll try. Thank you very much MRAB


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:28:55 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:28:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shared web host good citizenship question
References: <c9bfc235-1374-4dab-8f52-c987bf614116@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <59e76f4d-2493-411d-9cef-5420483550f1@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I would say like this: If your processes are serving up straight
pages, let them timeout after a while. If your processes are handling
eCommerce or persistent data, keep the connection open as long as
possible.

-- Gnarlie


From jim.hefferon at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:41:15 2010
From: jim.hefferon at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:41:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: finding element by tag in xml
References: <871883dd-eb99-4de4-b70f-df09234c8630@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f818d0d9-4cc7-47df-9aa6-7eb11001f8ee@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 11:27 am, sWrath swrath <swr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2 Questions
>
> 1. Why can't I use dom.getElementsByTagName('book') in #Error 1? How
> do i print the elements ?
>       Error- AttributeError: ElementTree instance has no attribute
> 'getElementsByTagName'

I only see one question here.

I think the error is asserting that your instance of the ET class does
not have such a fcn.  I also do not see it in the ET documentation.
Perhaps you are looking for the XPath support at http://effbot.org/zone/element-xpath.htm
?  Or perhaps you want to make your document dom representation via a
different library?

Jim


From digitalxero at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:56:09 2010
From: digitalxero at gmail.com (Dj Gilcrease)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:56:09 -0700
Subject: finding element by tag in xml
In-Reply-To: <871883dd-eb99-4de4-b70f-df09234c8630@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <871883dd-eb99-4de4-b70f-df09234c8630@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9764b731002201356m63cfe7c8r8e6423fe4bce83e5@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 9:27 AM, sWrath swrath <swrath at gmail.com> wrote:
> from xml.dom.minidom import parse
> from xml.etree.ElementTree import*
>
> file1="book.xml"
> tmptree=ElementTree()
> tmptree.parse(file1)
> items=root.getiterator()
>
>
> dom = parse(file1)
>
>
> #Find tag names
> for node in items :
> ? ?if node.tag == 'author': #Get tag
> ? ? ? ?print dom.getElementsByTagName ('book') #Error 1

You are mixing two different types of xml parsers, either user minidom

for node in dom.getElementsByTagName('author'):
    print node.getElementsByTagName('book')

or use etree

for el in items:
    if el.tag == 'author':
        print el.find('book')

There are a few differences you need to note, the getElementsByTagName
always returns a list even if there is only 1 element and find only
returns the first element found no matter what. If you want to print
all books associated with an author you would need to do something
like

for author in tmptree.getiterator('author'):
    for book in author.getiterator('book'):
        print book


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 17:02:44 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:02:44 +0000
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>

lallous <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello
>
> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?
>
> Let us consider this:
>
> class C1:
>
>     # Pure virtual
>     def cb(self, param1, param2):
>         """
>         This is a callback
>
>         @param param1: ...
>         @param param2: ...
>         """
>         raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"

Why define it if it is virtual?

> # Implementation w/o a 'cb', thus 'cb' should not be used
> class C2(C1):
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
>
> # Implementation w/ 'cb', thus 'cb' can be used
> class C3(C1):
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
>
>     def cb(self, param1, param2):
>         print "i am c3 cb"
>
> # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
> child classes
> def dispatcher(c):
>     if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
>         c.cb("Hello", "World")
>
> dispatcher(C2())
> dispatcher(C3())
>
> What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
> if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.

If you don't define cb in the parent class, it'll work.

-- 
Arnaud


From norman at smash-net.org  Sat Feb 20 17:12:50 2010
From: norman at smash-net.org (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Norman_Rie=DF?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:12:50 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
Message-ID: <4B805E62.5070909@smash-net.org>

Hello,

i am trying to read a large bz2 compressed textfile using the bz2 module.
The file is 1717362770 lines long and 8GB large.
Using this code

source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
    for line in source_file:
    print line.strip()

    print "Exiting"
    print "I used file: " + file

the loop exits cleanly after 4311 lines in midline and the prints are
executed.
This happened on two different boxes runnig different brands of linux.
Is there something i miss or should be done differently?

Thank you.

Regards,
Norman



From olaye1977 at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 18:03:27 2010
From: olaye1977 at googlemail.com (V8 NUT)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:03:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz on Cent OS - Python 2.4
Message-ID: <9d373498-df99-41ef-b193-0c05073166ff@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Been trying to fix this issue for over 6 hours now.
It's doin my head in, any one know whats going on here.

==START==
python setup.py build
running build
running build_py
copying MySQLdb/release.py -> build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.4/MySQLdb
running build_ext
building '_mysql' extension
gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.4/_mysql.o -L/usr/lib64/
mysql -L/usr/lib64 -lmysqlclient_r -lz -lpthread -lcrypt -lnsl -lm -
lpthread -lssl -lcrypto -o build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.4/_mysql.so
/usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libz.so when searching for
-lz
/usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libz.a when searching for -
lz
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

==END==

Am trying to get MySQL-python-1.2.3c1 installed on a CentOS 5 box
running Python 2.4
I do not want to upgrade my Python version.
I have tried:

1. yum install mysql-python
2. yum install librsync-devel
3. yum install python-devel

With all return no errors and a notification that there's nothing to
install or update.

Please help.




From astan.chee at al.com.au  Sat Feb 20 18:07:32 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:07:32 +1100
Subject: calculating a string equation
In-Reply-To: <m2ljezigs7.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <mailman.2405.1265924615.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2ljezigs7.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B806B34.1070508@al.com.au>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Astan Chee <astan.chee at al.com.au> writes:
>
>   
>> Hi,
>> I have some variables in my script that looks like this:
>> vars = {'var_a':'10','var_b':'4'}
>> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
>> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
>> What I'm trying to do is to plug in var_a and var_b's values from vars
>> into eqat and see if eqat returns true or false as well as getting the
>> value of result if these variables were "plugged in". How do I do
>> this?
>> I'm also expecting eqat and result to contain various python
>> mathematical operators like **, and compounded ()'s.
>> I'm not sure how to convert the equation; if I have to make a bunch of
>> if-statements or if there is a python function that already does
>> something like this.
>>     
>
> Yes: eval()
>
>   
>>>> vars = {'var_a':10 ,'var_b':4}
>>>> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
>>>> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
>>>> eval(eqat, vars)
>>>>         
> False
Hi,
I now have a slight problem with this. This doesnt seem to work:
 >>> vars = {'var a':10 ,'var b':4}
 >>> eqat = "(var a/2.0) <= var b"
 >>> eval(eqat, vars)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in <module>
    eval(eqat, vars)
  File "<string>", line 1
    (var a/2.0) <= var b
         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

So eval can't take spaces? is there a way to go around this?
Thanks again for any suggestions
Cheers
Astan

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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 20 18:21:50 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:21:50 -0800
Subject: calculating a string equation
In-Reply-To: <4B806B34.1070508@al.com.au>
References: <mailman.2405.1265924615.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2ljezigs7.fsf@googlemail.com> <4B806B34.1070508@al.com.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002201521w73905736o30760b7924663b89@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Astan Chee <astan.chee at al.com.au> wrote:
> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Astan Chee <astan.chee at al.com.au> writes:
> Hi,
> I have some variables in my script that looks like this:
> vars = {'var_a':'10','var_b':'4'}
> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
> What I'm trying to do is to plug in var_a and var_b's values from vars
> into eqat and see if eqat returns true or false as well as getting the
> value of result if these variables were "plugged in". How do I do
> this?
> I'm also expecting eqat and result to contain various python
> mathematical operators like **, and compounded ()'s.
> I'm not sure how to convert the equation; if I have to make a bunch of
> if-statements or if there is a python function that already does
> something like this.
>
>
> Yes: eval()
>
>
>
> vars = {'var_a':10 ,'var_b':4}
> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
> eval(eqat, vars)
>
>
> False
>
> Hi,
> I now have a slight problem with this. This doesnt seem to work:
>>>> vars = {'var a':10 ,'var b':4}
>>>> eqat = "(var a/2.0) <= var b"
>>>> eval(eqat, vars)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in <module>
> ??? eval(eqat, vars)
> ? File "<string>", line 1
> ??? (var a/2.0) <= var b
> ???????? ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> So eval can't take spaces? is there a way to go around this?

eval() requires the string be valid Python code and conform to
Python's syntax. Obviously your string isn't valid Python.
You can either require beforehand that variables not be prefixed with
"var " as they are currently, or you can get rid of the "var"s
yourself:

vars = {'a':10 ,'b':4}
equat = equat.replace('var ','')
eval(equat, vars)

but this could cause problems if you have a variable whose names ends
with "var"; using a regular expression for the removal would fix that.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 18:52:33 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:52:33 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
Message-ID: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>

hello,

I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught 
exception,
is that possible ?

thanks
Stef Mientki
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From timr at probo.com  Sat Feb 20 18:54:55 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:54:55 -0800
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>

DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
>network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
>use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
>couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.

If you want to manipulate the frames (as bitmaps), then you have little
choice but to decode the MPEG as you receive it, manipulate the bitmaps,
and re-encode it back to MPEG.

That's going to take a fair amount of time...
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 18:59:40 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:59:40 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002201559i1819944cre605f3904f06c541@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
> hello,
>
> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
> exception,
> is that possible ?
>
> thanks
> Stef Mientki
>

Yes, you catch the exception and do nothing.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 19:00:05 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 00:00:05 GMT
Subject: if not global -- then what?
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b807784$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:25:46 -0800, egasimus wrote:

> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from everywhere,
> in a program spanning multiple files?

Such a thing is no different from keeping many global settings. It's not 
the global KEYWORD that is discouraged, but the over-use of global 
variables itself.

See, for example:

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GlobalVariablesAreBad
http://weblogs.asp.net/wallen/archive/2003/05/08/6750.aspx


In a nutshell: shared variables introduce tight coupling between parts of 
your code that should be independent. Whether they are truly global, or 
passed around in a Settings object, makes little or no difference. In 
both cases, the risks and problems are identical.

Let me give a fanciful example: suppose your refrigerator, oven and 
shower all shared a single global temperature setting instead of having 
three local temperature settings. This would be a recipe for disaster: 
every operation to any of the three would need to carefully save the 
current temperature setting, and there's the constant risk of scalding 
showers, ruined foods, and undercooked meals.

Having three different global temperature settings helps a bit, but that 
just expands the number of variables that everything has access too. Why 
do the television and the garage door need access to any temperature 
setting, let alone all three?

Python globals aren't as bad as in some other languages, because "global" 
means global to a single module, not global to the entire program, but if 
you create a Settings object and import it from module to module, you 
break the encapsulation, *and* you then have the problem of needing to 
make sure it is initialised properly.

http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/bmarticles/joop/globals.html

Global constants also aren't as bad, because the coupling is weaker. 
Unfortunately Python doesn't have constants, except by convention, so 
there's always the risk that some badly-behaved function might decide to 
redefine (say) math.pi to 3.15.

Unfortunately, you probably can't get rid of globals altogether, but the 
tricks are (1) use as few of them as possible, and (2) make them local as 
quickly as possible.

For example, you might have something like this:

default_header = "My special header"  # A global

for option, argument in command_line:
    if option == "--header":
        default_header = argument

class Printer:
    def print_page(self, text, header=None):
        if header is None:
            header = default_header
        print header
        print text


I would limit the scope of default_header so that it was local to the 
printer class:


for option, argument in command_line:
    if option == "--header":
        Printer.default_header = argument

class Printer:
    default_header = "My special header"

    def print_page(self, text, header=None):
        if header is None:
            header = self.default_header
        print header
        print text

You might not be able to completely eliminate either globals, or a 
Settings object, but you should be able to make it much, much smaller.

In practice, to make testing easier, I'd split the command line 
processing into two steps: a function that reads and processes the 
command line into a single local settings object, then a separate 
function that applies those settings to the various classes. The function 
that reads the command line doesn't need to know where the settings 
eventually end up, and the function that applies the settings doesn't 
need to know where they come from. All the coupling between settings and 
classes is in one place, the second function, instead of scattered all 
over your code.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 19:00:17 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 00:00:17 GMT
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hlp9ju$o2d$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b807791$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:28:16 +0000, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:

> On 02/20/10 00:20, MattB wrote:
> <cut>
>>
>> Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
>> that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
>> programming noob.
> <cut>
> It wasn't my intention to imply that, rather the opposite, that if some
> BOFH would see your action as misuse (some admins are pretty trigger
> happy), you would expect them to contact you directly (I would). Even
> though you are on a wireless there are ways to track you down. For
> example I would search my log to see if I can make an association
> between a login to one of my servers and your mac address.

This may be what you would do, but in my experience, it is more likely 
that the admin would be far too busy and/or lazy to try to track you down 
unless (1) they wanted to give you a warning prior to expulsion, or (2) 
they needed to know who you were prior to laying charges.

In my experience they're far more likely to just hit the problem with a 
hammer by blocking you as much as is technically possible.


> BTW, I always followed the philosophy that learning is much more fun if
> you can brake/blow something up. Thus on my networks all students had a
> lot of freedom to do whatever they think was appropriate but they where
> aware that every action on my network was monitored and logged.

Unfortunately this is the exception rather than the rule, I think.


-- 
Steven


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 19:21:09 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:21:09 +1100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
>> exception,
>> is that possible ?
>>
>> thanks
>> Stef Mientki
>>

That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 19:21:11 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:21:11 -0700
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the help, this is considerably faster and easier to read (see
below). I changed it to avoid the "break" and I think it makes it easy to
understand. I am checking the conditions each time slows it but it is worth
it to me at this time.
Thanks again
Vincent

def read_data_file(filename):
    reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')

    data = []
    mask = []
    outliers = []
    modified = []

    data_append = data.append
    mask_append = mask.append
    outliers_append = outliers.append
    modified_append = modified.append

    maskcount = 0
    outliercount = 0
    modifiedcount = 0

    for row in reader:
        if '[MASKS]' in row:
            maskcount += 1
        if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
            outliercount += 1
        if '[MODIFIED]' in row:
            modifiedcount += 1
        if not any((maskcount, outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
            data_append(row)
        elif not any((outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
            mask_append(row)
        elif not any((modifiedcount, not row)):
            outliers_append(row)
        else:
            if row: modified_append(row)

    data = data[1:]
    mask = mask[3:]
    outliers = outliers[3:]
    modified = modified[3:]
    return [data, mask, outliers, modified]

*Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:
>
>> In reference to the several comments about "[x for x in read] is basically
>> a copy of the entire list. This isn't necessary." or list(read). I had
>> thought I had a problem with having iterators in the takewhile() statement.
>> I thought I testes and it didn't work. It seems I was wrong. It clearly
>> works. I'll make this change and see if it is any better.
>>
>> I actually don't plan to read them all in at once, only as needed, but I
>> do need the whole file in an array to perform some mathematics on them and
>> compare different files. So my interest was in making it faster to open them
>> as needed. I guess part of it is that they are about 5mb so I guess it might
>> be disk speed in part.nks
>>
>>
>
> Record your numbers in an array and then work your magic on them later.
> Don't store the entire file in memory, though.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
>
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From rzantow at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 19:25:10 2010
From: rzantow at gmail.com (rzed)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:25:10 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D25C58B7B52Crzantowgmailcom@74.209.131.13>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote in
news:hlls5c$89l$1 at news.eternal-september.org: 

> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win
> XP into executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like
> snowball.py to snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds
> snowball.py but not snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes.
> What's up with that? 

There is a ludicrous setting in Windows explorer that hides the 
extensions for known file types, such as .exe. If you see "snowball" 
in Win Explorer, that's probably the way your system is set. If you 
click on Tools . Folder Options . View you should see a checkbox for 
the "Hide extensions for known file types" option. Uncheck it, and the 
disappearing program will return to view.

This is a separate issue for why snowball.py executes when you enter 
"snowball" at the command line.

-- 
rzed


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 19:32:53 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:32:53 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002201632n43b64dd2gfcd7081f06a8c748@mail.gmail.com>

> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
> exception,
> is that possible ?

try:
    # here is your error
except:
    pass

# this will get executed no matter what

See http://docs.python.org/tutorial/errors.html

HTH,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From timr at probo.com  Sat Feb 20 19:49:57 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:49:57 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2746.1266531087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oo01o51qi2utdjjji912mnmp7ad1vgq696@4ax.com>

Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

>On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? Python isn't ready for this. ?Not with the GIL.
>
>Is any language, save perhaps Erlang, really ready for it?

F# is.  I only wish the syntax was a little less Perl-like.  Too many
special characters.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From marwie at gmx.de  Sat Feb 20 19:55:10 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
Message-ID: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2
being lists)

    l1.extend(l2)

is more efficient than

    l1 = l1 + l2

because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
and store it in l2. Then I can write

    l2 = l1[10:]
    del l1[10:]

But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied.
Basically, I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which
returns and removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and
if not, why not?)

Cheers,
Martin.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 19:56:53 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:56:53 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D25C58B7B52Crzantowgmailcom@74.209.131.13>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D25C58B7B52Crzantowgmailcom@74.209.131.13>
Message-ID: <4B8084D5.2010006@mrabarnett.plus.com>

rzed wrote:
> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote in
> news:hlls5c$89l$1 at news.eternal-september.org: 
> 
>> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win
>> XP into executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like
>> snowball.py to snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds
>> snowball.py but not snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes.
>> What's up with that? 
> 
> There is a ludicrous setting in Windows explorer that hides the 
> extensions for known file types, such as .exe. If you see "snowball" 
> in Win Explorer, that's probably the way your system is set. If you 
> click on Tools . Folder Options . View you should see a checkbox for 
> the "Hide extensions for known file types" option. Uncheck it, and the 
> disappearing program will return to view.
> 
The problem with that setting is that an .exe file could masquerade as
some other type, eg "foo.txt.exe" would appear as "foo.txt", so you
might have thought that you were safe opening it because it's just text.

> This is a separate issue for why snowball.py executes when you enter 
> "snowball" at the command line.
> 



From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 20:05:35 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:05:35 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
Message-ID: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>

Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets so
slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6 64bit).
The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure what
is happening.
Any ideas
Thanks

*Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:06:36 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:06:36 -0800
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201706k27236296qcaa20e7580ed710d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:55 PM, marwie <marwie at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2
> being lists)
>
> ? ?l1.extend(l2)
>
> is more efficient than
>
> ? ?l1 = l1 + l2
>
> because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
> if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
> say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
> and store it in l2. Then I can write
>
> ? ?l2 = l1[10:]
> ? ?del l1[10:]
>
> But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied.
> Basically, I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which
> returns and removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and
> if not, why not?)
>

The idiom is:

>>> l1, l2 = l1[:10], l1[10:]

Don't know if it's optimized or not. If it's not, it could probably
be. This is a really common idiom.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 20:07:59 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:07:59 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>

> Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
> files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets so
> slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
> shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6 64bit).
> The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure what
> is happening.
> Any ideas
> Thanks
>
> import csv, os, glob
import sys

def read_data_file(filename):
    reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')

    data = []
    mask = []
    outliers = []
    modified = []

    data_append = data.append
    mask_append = mask.append
    outliers_append = outliers.append
    modified_append = modified.append

    maskcount = 0
    outliercount = 0
    modifiedcount = 0

    for row in reader:
        if '[MASKS]' in row:
            maskcount += 1
        if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
            outliercount += 1
        if '[MODIFIED]' in row:
            modifiedcount += 1
        if not any((maskcount, outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
            data_append(row)
        elif not any((outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
            mask_append(row)
        elif not any((modifiedcount, not row)):
            outliers_append(row)
        else:
            if row: modified_append(row)

    data = data[1:]
    mask = mask[3:]
    outliers = outliers[3:]
    modified = modified[3:]

    return [data, mask, outliers, modified]


def ImportDataFrom(folder):
    print 'Importing files from: ', folder
    alldata = dict()
    infolder = glob.glob( os.path.join(folder, '*.txt') )
    numfiles = len(infolder)
    print 'Importing ' + str(numfiles) + ' files from: ', folder
    for infile in infolder:
        print "Loading into memory: " + os.path.split(infile)[1]
        fname = os.path.split(infile)[1]

        filedata = dict(zip([fname + '_data', fname + '_mask', fname +
'_outliers', fname+'_modified'], read_data_file(infile)))
        print fname + ' has ' + str(len(filedata[fname + '_data'])) + ' rows
of data'
        print fname + ' has ' + str(len(filedata[fname + '_mask'])) + ' rows
of masked data'
        print fname + ' has ' + str(len(filedata[fname + '_outliers'])) + '
rows of outliers'
        print fname + ' has ' + str(len(filedata[fname +'_modified'])) + '
modified rows of data'
        print str(sys.getsizeof(filedata)) +'bytes'' of memory used for '+
fname
        print ' '
        alldata.update(filedata)
        print str(len(alldata)/4) + ' files of ' + str(numfiles) + ' using '
+ str(sys.getsizeof(alldata)) + ' bytes of memory'
    return alldata


ImportDataFrom("/Users/vmd/Dropbox/dna/data/rawdata")
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 20:12:01 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:42:01 +0530
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002201706k27236296qcaa20e7580ed710d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201706k27236296qcaa20e7580ed710d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002201712i23f750f3p9b6d3465552d83bf@mail.gmail.com>

You can always implement your own data-structures or simply a function if
you need so. A language consist of building blocks and not buildings.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:55 PM, marwie <marwie at gmx.de> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2
> > being lists)
> >
> >    l1.extend(l2)
> >
> > is more efficient than
> >
> >    l1 = l1 + l2
> >
> > because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
> > if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
> > say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
> > and store it in l2. Then I can write
> >
> >    l2 = l1[10:]
> >    del l1[10:]
> >
> > But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied.
> > Basically, I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which
> > returns and removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and
> > if not, why not?)
> >
>
> The idiom is:
>
> >>> l1, l2 = l1[:10], l1[10:]
>
> Don't know if it's optimized or not. If it's not, it could probably
> be. This is a really common idiom.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:18:24 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:18:24 -0800
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201718v779c785v1f9b89baa992e41f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:

> Thanks for the help, this is considerably faster and easier to read (see
> below). I changed it to avoid the "break" and I think it makes it easy to
> understand. I am checking the conditions each time slows it but it is worth
> it to me at this time.
>
>
It seems you are beginning to understand that programmer time is more
valuable than machine time. Congratulations.



> def read_data_file(filename):
>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>
>     data = []
>     mask = []
>     outliers = []
>     modified = []
>
>     data_append = data.append
>     mask_append = mask.append
>     outliers_append = outliers.append
>     modified_append = modified.append
>
>

I know some people do this to speed things up. Really, I don't think it's
necessary or wise to do so.


>     maskcount = 0
>     outliercount = 0
>     modifiedcount = 0
>
>     for row in reader:
>         if '[MASKS]' in row:
>             maskcount += 1
>         if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
>             outliercount += 1
>         if '[MODIFIED]' in row:
>             modifiedcount += 1
>         if not any((maskcount, outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
>             data_append(row)
>         elif not any((outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
>             mask_append(row)
>         elif not any((modifiedcount, not row)):
>             outliers_append(row)
>         else:
>             if row: modified_append(row)
>
>

Just playing with the logic here:

1. Notice that if "not row" is True, nothing happens? Pull it out
explicitly.

2. Notice how it switches from mode to mode? Program it more explicitly.

Here's my suggestion:

def parse_masks(reader):
    for row in reader:
        if not row: continue
        elif '[OUTLIERS]' in row: parse_outliers(reader)
        elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
       masks.append(row)

def parse_outliers(reader):
    for row in reader:
        if not row: continue
        elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
       outliers.append(row)

def parse_modified(reader):
    for row in reader:
        if not row: continue
       modified.append(row)

for row in reader:
    if not row: continue
    elif '[MASKS]' in row: parse_masks(reader)
    elif '[OUTLIERS]' in row: parse_outliers(reader)
    elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
    else: data.append(row)

Since there is global state involved, you may want to save yourself some
trouble in the future and put the above in a class where separate parsers
can be kept separate.

It looks like your program is turning into a regular old parser. Any format
that is a little more than trivial to parse will need a real parser like the
above.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 20:30:05 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 01:30:05 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:55:10 -0800, marwie wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2 being
> lists)
> 
>     l1.extend(l2)
> 
> is more efficient than
> 
>     l1 = l1 + l2
> 
> because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
> if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's say
> I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10 and
> store it in l2. Then I can write
> 
>     l2 = l1[10:]
>     del l1[10:]
> 
> But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied. 

Yes, list slicing can't make any sort of assumptions about what you're 
going to do next, so when you take a slice, it has to copy the data.


> Basically,
> I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which returns and
> removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and if not, why
> not?)

Such a list pop would have to copy the data too. How else could it work?

What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?

If you are unhappy that copy-and-remove a slice from a list takes two 
lines instead of one ("won't somebody think of the shortage of 
newlines!!!" *wink*), then just write a helper function and call that:

def copy_and_remove(alist, slice):
    tmp = alist[slice]
    del alist[slice]
    return tmp

l2 = copy_and_remove(l1, slice(10, None))


If you are unhappy that copying slices from lists copies data, well 
that's just the way things are. Don't make the mistake of trying to 
optimize your application before you actually know what bits need 
optimizing.

Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, so copying a slice is 
fast: it doesn't have to copy the objects, just pointers. Deleting from 
the end of the list is also quick, because you don't have to move memory, 
just clear some pointers and change the length field.

Splitting such an array without copying data is, essentially, impossible. 
Python lists aren't linked lists.

But as I said, most of the time copying slices doesn't matter: the time 
taken is unlikely to be a serious factor in practice. If it is (and 
you've profiled your code, right? you're not just guessing what you think 
is fast and slow?) then there may be ways to optimize your code to avoid 
needing to copy slices, but we'd need to know what you're doing with the 
data.


-- 
Steven


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 20:32:28 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:32:28 -0700
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002201718v779c785v1f9b89baa992e41f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201718v779c785v1f9b89baa992e41f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201732m17bb9b74q5c62e279a9bf83b4@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks again for the comment, not sure I will implement all of it but I will
separate the "if not row" The files have some extraneous blank rows in the
middle that I need to be sure not to import as blank rows.
I am actually having trouble with this filling my sys memory, I posted a
separate question "Why is this filling my sys memory" or something like that
is the subject.
I might be that my 1yr old son has been trying to help for the last hour. It
is very distracting.

  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the help, this is considerably faster and easier to read (see
>> below). I changed it to avoid the "break" and I think it makes it easy to
>> understand. I am checking the conditions each time slows it but it is worth
>> it to me at this time.
>>
>>
> It seems you are beginning to understand that programmer time is more
> valuable than machine time. Congratulations.
>
>
>
>> def read_data_file(filename):
>>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>>
>>     data = []
>>     mask = []
>>     outliers = []
>>     modified = []
>>
>>     data_append = data.append
>>     mask_append = mask.append
>>     outliers_append = outliers.append
>>     modified_append = modified.append
>>
>>
>
> I know some people do this to speed things up. Really, I don't think it's
> necessary or wise to do so.
>
>
>>     maskcount = 0
>>     outliercount = 0
>>     modifiedcount = 0
>>
>>     for row in reader:
>>         if '[MASKS]' in row:
>>             maskcount += 1
>>         if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
>>             outliercount += 1
>>         if '[MODIFIED]' in row:
>>             modifiedcount += 1
>>          if not any((maskcount, outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
>>             data_append(row)
>>         elif not any((outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
>>             mask_append(row)
>>         elif not any((modifiedcount, not row)):
>>             outliers_append(row)
>>         else:
>>             if row: modified_append(row)
>>
>>
>
> Just playing with the logic here:
>
> 1. Notice that if "not row" is True, nothing happens? Pull it out
> explicitly.
>
> 2. Notice how it switches from mode to mode? Program it more explicitly.
>
> Here's my suggestion:
>
> def parse_masks(reader):
>     for row in reader:
>         if not row: continue
>         elif '[OUTLIERS]' in row: parse_outliers(reader)
>         elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
>        masks.append(row)
>
> def parse_outliers(reader):
>     for row in reader:
>         if not row: continue
>         elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
>        outliers.append(row)
>
> def parse_modified(reader):
>     for row in reader:
>         if not row: continue
>        modified.append(row)
>
> for row in reader:
>     if not row: continue
>     elif '[MASKS]' in row: parse_masks(reader)
>     elif '[OUTLIERS]' in row: parse_outliers(reader)
>     elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
>     else: data.append(row)
>
> Since there is global state involved, you may want to save yourself some
> trouble in the future and put the above in a class where separate parsers
> can be kept separate.
>
> It looks like your program is turning into a regular old parser. Any format
> that is a little more than trivial to parse will need a real parser like the
> above.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
>
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:34:15 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:34:15 -0800
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201734t217d548elc9c79df9e61ddfb0@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:25 AM, egasimus <fallenblood at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from
> everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?

One of the powerful concepts to come out of Lisp was "dynamic scope".
This is the ideal solution for configuration and logging.

"Lexical scope" is where the value of the variables are found in the
file it was defined in. This is what Python does, and it's what you're
used to in most other languages.

"Dynamic scope" is where the value of the variables are found by
looking up the call stack. This is similar to perl's "local" keyword.
It's also similar to environment variables, if you consider programs
that run programs that run programs as similar to functions. (If
you're familiar with neither, then that's fine.)

This is useful for a program where you know it needs configuration or
logging, but you don't want to have to specify it as part of the
program. Whoever calls the program needs to configure it and setup
their logger before calling it.

Unfortunately, there is no built-in way to deal with dynamic variables
in Python. But that doesn't mean you can't emulate it explicitly and
clearly!

In order to emulate it, you simply pass the configuration and such
down to the functions you call. Each function or class instance needs
to pass it further along. So, rather than:

  def foo():
      bar()

  def bar()
     ...

you need to have:

  def foo(config):
     bar(config)

  def bar(config):
     ...

Obviously, only certain functions care for the config and logging
setup. Others don't. And obviously, you can modify the value on the
way down. Just be sure to make a copy or you'll change the entire
stack's value for that configuration.

There are a couple of systems that do something close to this. I don't
know of any, except SQLAlchemy, that does this exactly right. WSGI is
also a system that does this right, although I don't know that many
people realize it.

Usually, what people end up doing is setting the config values to some
global in some module. Then everyone is expected to look in that
module for the config. This ends up being messy, particularly for
testing where you'd like to mess with the config without messing with
THE config. You can tell it's messy because people end up writing code
like this:

  old_value = get_config(...)
  set_config(... some new value ...)
  ... do your stuff ...
  set_config(...back to old_value...)

This kind of code is hard to get right. (What happens if there is an
exception before you set the old config back? That's right, you need a
try-finally block.)

In terms of "global", you should only really use "global" when you are
need to assign to a lexically scoped variable that is shared among
other functions. For instance:

def foo():
    i = 0
    def inc(): global i; i+=1
    def dec(): global i; i-=1
    def get(): return i
    return (inc, dec, get)

This really isn't that common, although it is useful. Note that the
above might be better organized into a class instance.

Good luck.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:37:21 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:37:21 -0800
Subject: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz on Cent OS - Python 2.4
In-Reply-To: <9d373498-df99-41ef-b193-0c05073166ff@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <9d373498-df99-41ef-b193-0c05073166ff@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201737o151fe3ddu3f31fe949f254642@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:03 PM, V8 NUT <olaye1977 at googlemail.com> wrote:


> /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libz.so when searching for
> -lz
> /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libz.a when searching for -
> lz
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz

This is your problem.

>
> Am trying to get MySQL-python-1.2.3c1 installed on a CentOS 5 box
> running Python 2.4
> I do not want to upgrade my Python version.
> I have tried:
>
> 1. yum install mysql-python
> 2. yum install librsync-devel
> 3. yum install python-devel
>
> With all return no errors and a notification that there's nothing to
> install or update.
>

I think you need libz's -devel module. Not sure what libz is or what
its name is in the yum repository. Might take a search or maybe an rpm
-qif /usr/lib/libz.so

The problem could be that mysql-python expects to see a different
version of libz than what's installed on your box. If so, you'll need
to see if you can find the right version.

The MySQL-python people should have more help for you.


-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From agoretoy at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 20:37:54 2010
From: agoretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:37:54 -0600
Subject: datelib pythonification
In-Reply-To: <c9d33c541002201626o4cb51819ycea15bb24933d5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c9d33c541002201626o4cb51819ycea15bb24933d5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002201737t2d9e4863rba08ab7161e850fc@mail.gmail.com>

hello all,
    since I posted this last time, I've added a new function dates_diff and
modified the dates_dict function to set timedelta values returned by
dates_diff in the returned dict

    def dates_dict(self,*targs,**dargs):
        """
            dates_dict() - takes params same as prefs()
                returns dict key/value pair of formatted/calculated dates
                    key is a date, value is timedelta enddate-startdate

        """
        self.prefs(*targs,**dargs)
        d={}
        try:
            if self.format!="":
                d[self.startdate.strftime(self.format)]=self.dates_diff()
            else:
                d[self.startdate]=self.dates_diff()
        except ValueError:
            d["%s"%self.startdate]=self.dates_diff()
        while self.startdate<self.enddate:
            a=self.calc(*targs,**dargs)[0]
            d[a]=self.dates_diff()
        self.reset_dates()
        return d
    def dates_diff(self,*targs):
        """
            dates_diff - return timedelta difference between startdata and
enddate
                takes nothing, a tuple, a list or 2 date objects as params
                return enddate - startdate timedelta

        """
        start,end=(self.startdate,self.enddate)
        if targs:
            if(len(targs)==1):
                if(type(targs[0])==type(()) or targs[0] == type([])):
                    if(len(targs[0])==2):
                        start,end=(targs[0][0],targs[0][1])
            elif(len(targs)== 2):
                if(type(targs[0])==type(date.today()) and targs[1] ==
type(date.today())):
                    start,end=(targs[0],targs[1])
        return end-start

-Alex Goretoy
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 20:41:11 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 01:41:11 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:06:36 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:55 PM, marwie <marwie at gmx.de> wrote:
[...]
>> ? ?l2 = l1[10:]
>> ? ?del l1[10:]
>>
>> But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied. Basically,
>> I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which returns and
>> removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and if not, why
>> not?)
>>
>>
> The idiom is:
> 
>>>> l1, l2 = l1[:10], l1[10:]

No, that has different behaviour to what the Original Poster wants, AND 
it does two copies instead of one:

(1) copy l1[:10] and l1[10:]
(2) assign the names l1 and l2 to them
(3) if, and only if, there are no other references to the original l1, it 
gets deleted (garbage collected).


What the OP is doing is quite different:

(1) copy l1[:10]
(2) assign the name l2 to it
(3) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items.


What the OP wants is:

(1) assign the name l2 to l1[:10] without copying
(2) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items without affecting l2.


-- 
Steven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:41:28 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:41:28 -0800
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201732m17bb9b74q5c62e279a9bf83b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201718v779c785v1f9b89baa992e41f@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201732m17bb9b74q5c62e279a9bf83b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201741g21a94cf4jb77c638cc130d89d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks again for the comment, not sure I will implement all of it but I will separate the "if not row" The files have some extraneous blank rows in the middle that I need to be sure not to import as blank rows.
> I am actually having trouble with this filling my sys memory, I posted a separate question "Why is this filling my sys memory" or something like that is the subject.
> I might be that my 1yr old son has been trying to help for the last hour. It is very distracting.
>

It may be that the csvfile is reading the entire file in, rather than
line-by-line.

--
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:44:57 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:44:57 -0800
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201744u63a0b280o6268a017292dd33a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>> Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
>> files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets so
>> slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
>> shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6 64bit).
>> The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure what
>> is happening.

With this kind of data set, you should start looking at BDBs or
PostgreSQL to hold your data. While processing files this large is
possible, it isn't easy. Your time is better spent letting the DB
figure out how to arrange your data for you.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From deadpickle at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 20:47:12 2010
From: deadpickle at gmail.com (deadpickle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:47:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: netcdf4-python
Message-ID: <1f7f8347-4c48-42a8-8f80-6175acfb83e9@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to use the python module "netcdf4-python" to read a netcdf
file. So far I'm trying to do the basics and just open the script:

from netCDF4 import Dataset
rootgrp = Dataset('20060402-201025.netcdf', 'r',
format='NETCDF3_CLASSIC')
print rootgrp.file_format
rootgrp.close()

when I do this I get the exit code error (when I run in Scite):

>pythonw -u "netcdf_test.py"
>Exit code: -1073741819
 or Python stops responding (in windows cmd).

I'm not sure what is wrong so if anyone as any ideas I would gladly
send you the netcdf file to try. Thanks.


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 20:53:22 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:53:22 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002201744u63a0b280o6268a017292dd33a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201744u63a0b280o6268a017292dd33a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201753l6b77c2b7xa5cbdf15ba43f4c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

With this kind of data set, you should start looking at BDBs or

PostgreSQL to hold your data. While processing files this large is

possible, it isn't easy. Your time is better spent letting the DB

figure out how to arrange your data for you.


I really do need all of it in at time, It is dna microarray data. Sure there
are 230,00 rows but only 4 columns of small numbers. Would it help to make
them float() ? I need to at some point. I know in numpy there is a way to
set the type for the whole array "astype()" I think.
What I don't get is that it show the size of the dict with all the data to
have only 6424 bytes. What is using up all the memory?

  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>
> wrote:
> >> Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
> >> files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets
> so
> >> slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
> >> shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6
> 64bit).
> >> The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure
> what
> >> is happening.
>
> With this kind of data set, you should start looking at BDBs or
> PostgreSQL to hold your data. While processing files this large is
> possible, it isn't easy. Your time is better spent letting the DB
> figure out how to arrange your data for you.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
>
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 20:53:46 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 01:53:46 GMT
Subject: if not global -- then what?
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.13.1266716058.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b80922a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:34:15 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> In terms of "global", you should only really use "global" when you are
> need to assign to a lexically scoped variable that is shared among other
> functions. For instance:
> 
> def foo():
>     i = 0
>     def inc(): global i; i+=1
>     def dec(): global i; i-=1
>     def get(): return i
>     return (inc, dec, get)

That doesn't do what you think it does:


>>> def foo():
...     i = 0
...     def inc(): global i; i+=1
...     def dec(): global i; i-=1
...     def get(): return i
...     return (inc, dec, get)
...
>>> inc = foo()[0]
>>> inc()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in inc
NameError: global name 'i' is not defined


The problem is that i is not global. Inside the inc and dec functions, 
you need to declare i nonlocal, not global, and that only works in Python 
3 or better.



-- 
Steven


From marwie at gmx.de  Sat Feb 20 20:55:18 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:55:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb., 02:30, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, so copying a slice is
> fast: it doesn't have to copy the objects, just pointers. Deleting from
> the end of the list is also quick, because you don't have to move memory,
> just clear some pointers and change the length field.
>
> Splitting such an array without copying data is, essentially, impossible.
> Python lists aren't linked lists.

Well, to split a C array I would simply set l2 to point to l1[10] and
then
change the length of l1 (which I store somewhere else). No copying of
elements
needed. I would have assumed that python can do something like this
with its
internal arrays of pointers, too.

Anyway, this was more a question about coding style. I use
l1.extend(l2) or
l1 += l2 rather than l1 = l1 + l2 because it's as readable and
possibly faster.
I was simply wondering if something similar exists for splitting
lists.



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 21:00:38 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:00:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 2:58?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> miss rate goes up accordingly.

A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
carry through to the cache for the code.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 21:17:47 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:17:47 +1100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/21/10 12:02, Stef Mientki wrote:
> On 21-02-2010 01:21, Lie Ryan wrote:
>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki
<stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hello,
>>>>
>>>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
>>>> exception,
>>>> is that possible ?
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> Stef Mientki
>>>>
>>>>
>> That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"
>>
> I think that's what I'm after ...

First, read this:
http://www.developerfusion.com/code/4325/on-error-resume-next-considered-harmful/

> I already redirected sys.excepthook to my own function,
> but now I need a way to get to continue the code on the next line.
> Is that possible ?

No, not in python. You can (ab)use generators' yield to resume
execution, but not in the general case:

def on_error_resume_next(func):
    def _func(*args, **kwargs):
        gen = func(*args, **kwargs)
        resp = next(gen)
        while isinstance(resp, Exception):
            print 'an error happened, ignoring...'
            resp = next(gen)
        return resp
    return _func

@on_error_resume_next
def add_ten_error_if_zero(args):
    if args == 0:
        # raise Exception()
        yield Exception()
    # return args + 10
    yield args + 10

print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
print add_ten_error_if_zero(10)




A slightly better approach is to retry calling the function again, but
as you can see, it's not appropriate for certain cases:

def retry_on_error(func):
    def _func(*args, **kwargs):
        while True:
            try:
                ret = func(*args, **kwargs)
            except Exception:
                print 'An error happened, retrying...'
            else:
                return ret
    return _func

@retry_on_error
def add_ten_error_if_zero(args):
    if args == 0:
        raise Exception()
    return args + 10

print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
print add_ten_error_if_zero(10)



A much better approach is to use callbacks, the callbacks determines
whether to raise an exception or continue execution:

def handler(e):
    if datetime.datetime.now() >= datetime.datetime(2012, 12, 21):
        raise Exception('The world has ended')
    # else: ignore, it's fine

def add_ten_error_if_zero(args, handler):
    if args == 0:
        handler(args)
    return args + 10

print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, handler)
print add_ten_error_if_zero(10, handler)
print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, lambda e: None) # always succeeds



Ignoring arbitrary error is against the The Zen of Python "Errors should
never pass silently."; not that it is ever a good idea to ignore
arbitrary error, when an exception happens often the function is in an
indeterminate state, and continuing blindly could easily cause havocs.


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 21:43:24 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:43:24 -0500
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <D4F422A5-21C9-4802-996B-DC7A0B4658D1@gmail.com>


On Feb 20, 2010, at 9:17 PM, Lie Ryan wrote:

> On 02/21/10 12:02, Stef Mientki wrote:
>> On 21-02-2010 01:21, Lie Ryan wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki
> <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> hello,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
>>>>> exception,
>>>>> is that possible ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> Stef Mientki
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"
>>> 
>> I think that's what I'm after ...
> 
> First, read this:
> http://www.developerfusion.com/code/4325/on-error-resume-next-considered-harmful/

The link goes to an "Oh dear. Gremlins at work!" page.  

They're probably using On Error Resume Next in their VBScript code and this is the "last resort" page ;-).

S



From ryan at rfk.id.au  Sat Feb 20 21:51:21 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:51:21 +1100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>  <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <1266720681.3908.24.camel@durian>

On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 13:17 +1100, Lie Ryan wrote:
> On 02/21/10 12:02, Stef Mientki wrote:
> > On 21-02-2010 01:21, Lie Ryan wrote:
> >>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki
> <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
> >>>> exception,
> >>>> is that possible ?
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks
> >>>> Stef Mientki
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"
> >>
> > I think that's what I'm after ...
>
> A much better approach is to use callbacks, the callbacks determines
> whether to raise an exception or continue execution:
> 
> def handler(e):
>     if datetime.datetime.now() >= datetime.datetime(2012, 12, 21):
>         raise Exception('The world has ended')
>     # else: ignore, it's fine
> 
> def add_ten_error_if_zero(args, handler):
>     if args == 0:
>         handler(args)
>     return args + 10
> 
> print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, handler)
> print add_ten_error_if_zero(10, handler)
> print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, lambda e: None) # always succeeds


Or if you don't like having to explicitly manage callbacks, you can try
the "withrestart" module:

    http://pypi.python.org/pypi/withrestart/

It tries to pinch some of the good ideas from Common Lisp's
error-handling system.

  from withrestart import *

  def add_ten_error_if_zero(n):
      #  This gives calling code the option to ignore
      #  the error, or raise a different one.
      with restarts(skip,raise_error):
          if n == 0:
              raise ValueError
      return n + 10

  # This will raise ValueError
  print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)

  # This will print 10
  with Handler(ValueError,"skip"):
      print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)

  # This will exit the python interpreter
  with Handler(ValueError,"raise_error",SystemExit):
      print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)



  Cheers,

      Ryan


-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From nagle at animats.com  Sat Feb 20 21:58:42 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:58:42 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>     Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
> 
> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> carry through to the cache for the code.

    That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
Python is not.

    This will get even worse when Unladen Swallow starts generating vast
swaths of unshared x86 instructions.

				John Nagle


From marwie at gmx.de  Sat Feb 20 22:00:29 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:00:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <37cd051e-89d6-44cc-af1b-8ecaf68468b2@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb., 02:41, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> What the OP is doing is quite different:
>
> (1) copy l1[:10]
> (2) assign the name l2 to it
> (3) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items.
>
> What the OP wants is:
>
> (1) assign the name l2 to l1[:10] without copying
> (2) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items without affecting l2.

Assuming you meant l1[10:] instead of l1[:10], that's what I wanted,
yes.


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 22:08:18 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:08:18 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <C9662C3C-FA8F-4AEF-81EC-579E88C160B2@gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<654D55F2-B276-44E6-A6EF-A9D3A2B5002F@gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201821o230fea1cpff18a5dacb37e710@mail.gmail.com>
	<C9662C3C-FA8F-4AEF-81EC-579E88C160B2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201908h10c72304y8025f3adae0beac4@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a sample of the output, It almost instantly uses 2GB and then starts
using VMem. This is probably the right suggestion but it's another thing to
install

> It's probably also worth being aware of guppy's heapy stuff:

http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/heapy_tutorial....<http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/heapy_tutorial.html>I
find it quite nice to have the following to get a quick point-in-time
estimate of my app's memory usage:

print 'Current memory usage: %iMB' % (hpy().heap().stat.size/(1024*1024))


19 files of 43 using 3352 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3_veg_nm_rep1.txt
3_veg_nm_rep1.txt has 228484 rows of data
3_veg_nm_rep1.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3_veg_nm_rep1.txt has 141 rows of outliers
3_veg_nm_rep1.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3_veg_nm_rep1.txt

20 files of 43 using 3352 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3_veg_nm_rep2.txt
3_veg_nm_rep2.txt has 228484 rows of data
3_veg_nm_rep2.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3_veg_nm_rep2.txt has 119 rows of outliers
3_veg_nm_rep2.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3_veg_nm_rep2.txt

21 files of 43 using 3352 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3_veg_phd_rep1.txt
3_veg_phd_rep1.txt has 228484 rows of data
3_veg_phd_rep1.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3_veg_phd_rep1.txt has 63 rows of outliers
3_veg_phd_rep1.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3_veg_phd_rep1.txt

22 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3g_c285-11.txt
3g_c285-11.txt has 228484 rows of data
3g_c285-11.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3g_c285-11.txt has 65 rows of outliers
3g_c285-11.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3g_c285-11.txt

23 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3g_c285-42.txt
3g_c285-42.txt has 228484 rows of data
3g_c285-42.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3g_c285-42.txt has 27 rows of outliers
3g_c285-42.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3g_c285-42.txt

24 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: A6AF.txt
A6AF.txt has 228484 rows of data
A6AF.txt has 0 rows of masked data
A6AF.txt has 36 rows of outliers
A6AF.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for A6AF.txt

25 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3026_rep1.txt
Grigg_3026_rep1.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3026_rep1.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3026_rep1.txt has 949 rows of outliers
Grigg_3026_rep1.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3026_rep1.txt

26 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3026_rep2.txt
Grigg_3026_rep2.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3026_rep2.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3026_rep2.txt has 361 rows of outliers
Grigg_3026_rep2.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3026_rep2.txt

27 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt
Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt has 41 rows of outliers
Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt

28 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3131_rep1.txt
Grigg_3131_rep1.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3131_rep1.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3131_rep1.txt has 537 rows of outliers
Grigg_3131_rep1.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3131_rep1.txt

29 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3131_rep2.txt
Grigg_3131_rep2.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3131_rep2.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3131_rep2.txt has 238 rows of outliers
Grigg_3131_rep2.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3131_rep2.txt

30 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory

  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:40 PM, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Feb 20, 2010, at 9:21 PM, Vincent Davis wrote:
>
> See this article for some more info about the reported sizes of things:
>> http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/sys/limits.html
>
>
> <http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/sys/limits.html>Nice article but I
> must have missed something useful to my current issue. Do I get any hints?
>
>
> Oh, sorry, there was the part about getsizeof() not including attributes
> unless the class supplies a __sizeof__ method and a comment at the bottom:
>
> It's probably also worth being aware of guppy's heapy stuff:
> http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/heapy_tutorial....<http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/heapy_tutorial.html>
>
> I find it quite nice to have the following to get a quick point-in-time
> estimate of my app's memory usage:
>
> print 'Current memory usage: %iMB' % (hpy().heap().stat.size/(1024*1024))
>
> Put a few of those in at various places in the collection process and you
> should see where you're taking a substantial hit on each pass.
>
> If I remember those numbers right, 5mb != 2.5gb so something along the way
> is doing something very strange.
>
> S
>
>
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From matt.newville at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 22:21:57 2010
From: matt.newville at gmail.com (Matt Newville)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:21:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: netcdf4-python
References: <1f7f8347-4c48-42a8-8f80-6175acfb83e9@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fca62372-2761-494f-bc8a-82eee188791d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 7:47?pm, deadpickle <deadpic... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to use the python module "netcdf4-python" to read a netcdf
> file. So far I'm trying to do the basics and just open the script:
>
> from netCDF4 import Dataset
> rootgrp = Dataset('20060402-201025.netcdf', 'r',
> format='NETCDF3_CLASSIC')
> print rootgrp.file_format
> rootgrp.close()
>
> when I do this I get the exit code error (when I run in Scite):
>
> >pythonw -u "netcdf_test.py"
> >Exit code: -1073741819
>
> ?or Python stops responding (in windows cmd).
>
> I'm not sure what is wrong so if anyone as any ideas I would gladly
> send you the netcdf file to try. Thanks.

If the file is really of NetCDF3 format, scipy.io.netcdf should work.
Replace
  netCDF4.Dataset(filename,'r',format='NETCDF3_CLASSIC')
with
  scipy.io.netcdf.netcdf_open(filename,'r')

--Matt Newville


From python-list at open-sense.com  Sat Feb 20 22:25:19 2010
From: python-list at open-sense.com (Michael Pardee)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:25:19 -0600
Subject: lists of variables
Message-ID: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>

I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following behavior:

>>> a=1
>>> b=2
>>> mylist=[a,b]
>>> print mylist
[1, 2]
>>> a=3
>>> print mylist
[1, 2]

Whoah!  Are python lists only for literals?  Nope:

>>> c={}
>>> d={}
>>> mydlist=[c,d]
>>> print mydlist
[{}, {}]
>>> c['x']=1
>>> print mydlist
[{'x': 1}, {}]

So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
This seems to confirm that:

mydlist[1]['y']=4
>>> print mydlist
[{}, {'y': 4}]

So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
literal to something it is changing the object.  But modifying a list
or dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the
object.

I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
element lists as "pointers":

>>> aa=[1]
>>> bb=[2]
>>> myplist=[aa,bb]
>>> print myplist
[[1], [2]]
>>> aa[0]=3
>>> print myplist
[[3], [2]]


But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
functionality?


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 20 22:34:42 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:34:42 -0800
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002201934qc6148b4j79daac42d05e7afb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Michael Pardee
<python-list at open-sense.com> wrote:
> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following behavior:
>
>>>> a=1
>>>> b=2
>>>> mylist=[a,b]
>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>>>> a=3
>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>
> Whoah! ?Are python lists only for literals? ?Nope:
>
>>>> c={}
>>>> d={}
>>>> mydlist=[c,d]
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {}]
>>>> c['x']=1
>>>> print mydlist
> [{'x': 1}, {}]
>
> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
> This seems to confirm that:
>
> mydlist[1]['y']=4
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {'y': 4}]
>
> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
> literal to something it is changing the object. ?But modifying a list
> or dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the
> object.

Correct. If you want more gory details, read
http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm

> I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
> element lists as "pointers":
>
>>>> aa=[1]
>>>> bb=[2]
>>>> myplist=[aa,bb]
>>>> print myplist
> [[1], [2]]
>>>> aa[0]=3
>>>> print myplist
> [[3], [2]]
>
>
> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?

What do you need that functionality for exactly? It's a rather low-level notion.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 22:40:42 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 03:40:42 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:55:18 -0800, marwie wrote:

> On 21 Feb., 02:30, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, so copying a slice is
>> fast: it doesn't have to copy the objects, just pointers. Deleting from
>> the end of the list is also quick, because you don't have to move
>> memory, just clear some pointers and change the length field.
>>
>> Splitting such an array without copying data is, essentially,
>> impossible. Python lists aren't linked lists.
> 
> Well, to split a C array I would simply set l2 to point to l1[10] and
> then change the length of l1 (which I store somewhere else). No copying
> of elements needed. I would have assumed that python can do something
> like this with its internal arrays of pointers, too.

Python lists aren't C arrays either.

Python lists are *objects*. Everything in Python is an object. 
Consequently, Python lists have a header, which includes the len. You 
don't store the length somewhere else, you store it in the object: this 
makes for less complexity. You can't just point l2 at an arbitrary index 
in an array and expect it to work, it needs a header.

Additionally, Python lists are over-allocated so that appends are fast. A 
list of (say) 1000 items might be over-allocated to (say) 1024 items, so 
that you can do 24 appends before the array is full and the array needs 
to be resized. This means that, on average, Python list appending is O(1) 
instead of O(N). You can't just change the length blindly, you need to 
worry about the over-allocation.

I'm sympathetic to your concern: I've often felt offended that doing 
something like this:

x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
for item in x[1:]:
    process(item)

has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But 
honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.


> Anyway, this was more a question about coding style. I use l1.extend(l2)
> or l1 += l2 rather than l1 = l1 + l2 because it's as readable and
> possibly faster.

I really, really hate augmented assignment for everything other than ints 
and floats because you can't predict what it will do. Take this for 
example:


>>> mylist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> same_again = mylist
>>> mylist.append(5)
>>> same_again
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

mylist and same_again are the same object, so append and extend behave 
predictably and simply. So is simple too:

>>> mylist = mylist + [-1, -2, -3]
>>> mylist
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, -1, -2, -3]
>>> same_again
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Because you have re-bound the name mylist to a new list, same_again 
doesn't get modified. Nice.

But what about mylist += something else? Is it an in-place modification, 
like extend and append, or a rebinding, like +? Who can remember? The 
answer will depend on whether mylist is a builtin list, or a subclass.

And then there's this mystery:

>>> mylist = [1, 2, 3]
>>> mytuple = (mylist, None)
>>> mytuple[0] += [4]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: 'tuple' object does not support item assignment
>>> mylist
[1, 2, 3, 4]

So in fact, += is *always* a rebinding, but *sometimes* it is an in-place 
modification as well. Yuck.


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb 20 22:46:33 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:46:33 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7x3a0vfdye.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
>> carry through to the cache for the code.
>
>    That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
> Python is not.

Emacs in days of yore used a hack called "unexec" to bring its Lisp code
into the pure text segment.  I think it's not used any more because
machines are now big enough that the benefits aren't that great.
Basically in the Emacs build process, you'd start up the C portion of
Emacs, then tell it to load all its Lisp code, then call "unexec".
Unexec basically performed a core dump of the process, then ran
something that manipulated the original Emacs image and the core dump
into a new executable that had the static Lisp code and data now marked
as part of the (immutable) program area.  Unexec necessarily had
platform dependencies, but this was managed with a bunch of ifdefs in a
reasonably clean and maintainable way.  I could imagine doing something
similar with a large Python program.



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 22:58:10 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:58:10 -0800
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002201958s1af51adeqf2b8f40fef310375@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Michael Pardee
<python-list at open-sense.com>wrote:

> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?
>

The problem is... Python doesn't have variables. At least not in the way
that you may be used to from other languages. Yeah, it's got data, and data
obviously has to be identifiable in some way, but they aren't put together
like "variables" are. A variable is a box with a name on it, and in that
context a 'list of variables' makes sense. You're moving around the box, or
referencing the box itself. It may happen to have something in it, but that
'something' doesn't really have an identity of its own. Its just.. the thing
that's in box-A.

In Python, everything's an object. And objects don't really have identities
of their own(okay, they do, but its not meaningful except to an identity
test), but they can be named. They object has no flabbering clue what its
named, or how many different people know its name, but hey.

a = 1

In many languages, that's making a variable "a" and assigning it the value
of 1.

In Python, that's making an int object with a value of 1, and giving it a
name in the current namespace. This -isn't- just using dumber/simpler words
to say the same thing :) All(*) python namespaces are really dictionaries
behind the scenes. a = 1 is actually doing, current_namespaces["a"] = 1.

Those may sound similar, but they're really not: most importantly, because
the "a" in another language is a -thing- unto itself which may hold an
object. But "a" in Python is just a label in some dictionary somewhere. You
can get the object a is naming, but you can't get /a/ itself. Its not a
'thing'.

There's no way to make a "list of variables", because /variables/ are the
part that's really missing. If you do:

lst = [a, b]

Python doesn't create a list and put two variables in it. It creates a list,
and while doing so, sees that we want to pass 'a' and 'b' into that list. So
it grabs the actual objects a and b are naming, and puts them in the list.

So, long story short: what's "the python way" to accomplish a "list of
variables"? Well... IMHO, it's to not do so. : )

Make a dict, pass the dict around, there's your list of variables. True, you
can't ever access them /as/ variables, and have to access them as dict
items, but... that's the Python way to do that. If order matters, do an
ordered dict.

HTH,
--S

*: Yes, I know about local namespaces being optimized in CPython to be an
array-like structure. Implementation detail.
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Feb 20 23:09:11 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:09:11 +1100
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fx4v6xi0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Michael Pardee <python-list at open-sense.com> writes:

> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?

You'll need to explain what ?list of variables? functionality is.

If you mean ?collection of name-to-value mappings?, the native mapping
type in Python is ?dict?. If that doesn't meet your needs, you'll need
to be more specific about what behaviour you want.

-- 
 \        ?Most people don't realize that large pieces of coral, which |
  `\       have been painted brown and attached to the skull by common |
_o__)    wood screws, can make a child look like a deer.? ?Jack Handey |
Ben Finney


From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Sat Feb 20 23:18:57 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:18:57 -0600
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eae285401002202018l5a630e8fxeaee6edacbf2b706@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:55 PM, marwie <marwie at gmx.de> wrote:

> Now my question is
> if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
> say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
> and store it in l2. Then I can write
>
>    l2 = l1[10:]
>    del l1[10:]


With Python's list implementation, there's no faster way to split a list
into two parts.  Because Python lists are essentially variable-length
arrays, Python has to copy O(n) references to create l2 and then decrement
O(n) references to remove them from l1.

I wrote an extension type called the blist to handle this and other
problems.  You use it just like you'd use a list, but it has different
performance characteristics.  It uses a hybrid array-tree structure and
performs copy-on-write behind the scenes, so it takes only O(log n) time to
create l2 and only O(log n) time to trim l1.

You'd use it something like this:

>>> from blist import blist
>>> l1 = blist()
>>> # Here, populate l1 as you normally would
>>> l2 = l1[10:]
>>> del l1[10:]

It's available at: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/blist/
--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com>
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 23:21:09 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 04:21:09 GMT
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b80b4b4$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:25:19 -0600, Michael Pardee wrote:

> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following
> behavior:
[snip]

I don't see why. It's fairly unusual behaviour to want, and it would be 
surprising if you did this:

def test():
    x = 1
    mylist = [2, 4, x]
    function(mylist)
    assert x == 1

and the assertion failed, even though you never passed x to the function. 
Such behaviour could easily turn into a never-ending source of bugs.


> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.

Python doesn't store variables in lists, it stores objects, always.

Even Python variables aren't variables *grin*, although it's really 
difficult to avoid using the term. Python variables are mappings between 
names (strings) and objects, not memory locations.


> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
> literal to something it is changing the object.  But modifying a list or
> dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the object.

Yes, we talk about name binding (and rebinding) versus mutation. A simple 
example:

>>> alist = blist = []  # bind two names to the same list object
>>> alist.append(1)  # mutate the list (modify in place)
>>> blist
[1]


>>> alist = alist + [2]  # a rebinding operation
>>> blist
[1]
>>> alist
[1, 2]


> I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
> element lists as "pointers":

Yes, that's a standard way to do it, except that by "standard" I mean 
"really really really rare, honestly, hardly anyone does that".

Slightly less rare, but still uncommon, is to wrap objects in an instance:

class Record:
    pass

o = Record()
o.x = 1
o.y = 2
modify(o)
print o.x, o.y

Of course you can make the class as fancy, or as simple, as you want.

But a better approach is to take advantage of Python's ability to return 
multiple values:

x = 1
y = 2
x, y = modify(x, y)

rather than:

x = 1
y = 2
modify([x, y])


Speaking as an old Pascal coder, you won't miss pass-by-reference very 
often.




-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 23:37:47 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:37:47 +0000
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B80B89B.1030109@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[snip]
> I'm sympathetic to your concern: I've often felt offended that doing 
> something like this:
> 
> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
> for item in x[1:]:
>     process(item)
> 
> has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But 
> honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.
> 
[snip]
Could lists gain an .items() method with start and end positions? I was
thinking that it would be a 'view', like with dicts in Python 3. Of
course, that would only be worthwhile with very long lists:

x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
for item in x.items(1):
     process(item)


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Feb 21 00:21:47 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:21:47 -0800
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002202121m53c9ba3esc9d1b46dc29ce5f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> What the OP wants is:
>
> (1) assign the name l2 to l1[:10] without copying
> (2) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items without affecting l2.
>

For ten items, though, is it really faster to muck around with array
lengths than just copying the data over? Array copies are extremely
fast on modern processors.

Programmer time and processor time being what it is, I still think my
answer is the correct one. No, it's not what he says he wants, but it
is what he needs.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Feb 21 00:25:37 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:25:37 -0800
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002202125tc9b0fc6p998b9f968ce2ec5f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Michael Pardee
<python-list at open-sense.com> wrote:
>
> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?
>

You're looking for namespaces, AKA dicts.

>>> vars = {}
>>> vars['a'] = 1
>>> vars['b'] = 2
>>> mylist = ['a', 'b']
>>> print [vars[i] for i in mylist] # Here's your dereference
[1,2]
>>> vars['a'] = 3
>>> print [vars[i] for i in mylist]
[3,2]


-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Feb 21 00:34:41 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:34:41 -0800
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201753l6b77c2b7xa5cbdf15ba43f4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201744u63a0b280o6268a017292dd33a@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201753l6b77c2b7xa5cbdf15ba43f4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002202134k60db9dceoe2daaf431e76261f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Jonathan Gardner?<jgardner at jonathangardner.net>?wrote:
>>
>> With this kind of data set, you should start looking at BDBs or
>> PostgreSQL to hold your data. While processing files this large is
>> possible, it isn't easy. Your time is better spent letting the DB
>> figure out how to arrange your data for you.
>
> I really do need all of it in at time, It is dna microarray data. Sure there are 230,00 rows but only 4 columns of small numbers. Would it help to make them float() ? I need to at some point. I know in numpy there is a way to set the type for the whole array "astype()" I think.
> What I don't get is that it show the size of the dict with all the data to have only?6424 bytes. What is using up all the memory?
>

Look into getting PostgreSQL to organize the data for you. It's much
easier to do processing properly with a database handle than a file
handle. You may also discover that writing functions in Python inside
of PostgreSQL can scale very well for whatever data needs you have.

--
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Feb 21 00:42:14 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:42:14 -0800
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <4b80922a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.13.1266716058.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b80922a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002202142p73626c02w2898cc8d84c65fcc@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:34:15 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> In terms of "global", you should only really use "global" when you are
>> need to assign to a lexically scoped variable that is shared among other
>> functions. For instance:
>>
>> def foo():
>> ? ? i = 0
>> ? ? def inc(): global i; i+=1
>> ? ? def dec(): global i; i-=1
>> ? ? def get(): return i
>> ? ? return (inc, dec, get)
>
> That doesn't do what you think it does:
>
>
>>>> def foo():
> ... ? ? i = 0
> ... ? ? def inc(): global i; i+=1
> ... ? ? def dec(): global i; i-=1
> ... ? ? def get(): return i
> ... ? ? return (inc, dec, get)
> ...
>>>> inc = foo()[0]
>>>> inc()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ?File "<stdin>", line 3, in inc
> NameError: global name 'i' is not defined
>
>
> The problem is that i is not global. Inside the inc and dec functions,
> you need to declare i nonlocal, not global, and that only works in Python
> 3 or better.
>

Oops. :-(

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 01:31:44 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:31:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 7:25?pm, Michael Pardee <python-l... at open-sense.com> wrote:
> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following behavior:
>
> >>> a=1
> >>> b=2
> >>> mylist=[a,b]
> >>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
> >>> a=3
> >>> print mylist
>
> [1, 2]
>
> Whoah! ?Are python lists only for literals? ?Nope:
>
> >>> c={}
> >>> d={}
> >>> mydlist=[c,d]
> >>> print mydlist
> [{}, {}]
> >>> c['x']=1
> >>> print mydlist
>
> [{'x': 1}, {}]
>
> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
> This seems to confirm that:
>
> mydlist[1]['y']=4>>> print mydlist
>
> [{}, {'y': 4}]
>
> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
> literal to something it is changing the object. ?But modifying a list
> or dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the
> object.

All correct, very observant for a Python newbie.

To be more

immutable



> I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
> element lists as "pointers":
>
> >>> aa=[1]
> >>> bb=[2]
> >>> myplist=[aa,bb]
> >>> print myplist
> [[1], [2]]
> >>> aa[0]=3
> >>> print myplist
>
> [[3], [2]]
>
> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?

Python doesn't have variable references (except in a limited way; see
below), so unless you want to use lists as pointers, I'd recommend
rethinking the problem.  Occasionally I feel like I'd like to be able
to do this, but usually another way exists that is, at worst, slightly
more complex.

For some cases the easiest thing is to make all the variables you're
interested in listing attributes of an object (or values of a dict).
Then store a list of names (or keys).

class X(object): pass
x = X()
x.foo = 1
x.bar = 2
s = ["foo","bar"]
setattr(x,s[0],3)
print x.foo # prints 3

A rule of thumb in deciding whether to use attributes is whether you
will typically know their names in your code ahead of time; if so
storing the values as attributes is a good idea.  If you are inputing
or calculating the names, then it's better to use a dict.


** The one place where Python does have references is when accessing
variables in an enclosing scope (not counting module-level).  But
these references aren't objects, so you can't store them in a list, so
it can't help you:

def f():
    s = []
    a = 1
    def g():
        print a
        s.append(a)
    g() # prints 1
    a = 2
    g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to f's a
    print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]


Carl Banks


From imranalii84 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 01:32:51 2010
From: imranalii84 at gmail.com (babu lohar)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: come and join www.pakdub.com a social network with full features like
	games, classifieds, forums, blogs and a lot more
Message-ID: <53c431ab-87a4-4798-9616-37cfbabfb289@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

come and join www.pakdub.com a social network with full features like
games, classifieds, forums, blogs and a lot more


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 01:38:53 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:38:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2df4ab82-7877-43f5-ac00-a780885e1950@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 4:55?pm, marwie <mar... at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2
> being lists)
>
> ? ? l1.extend(l2)
>
> is more efficient than
>
> ? ? l1 = l1 + l2
>
> because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
> if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
> say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
> and store it in l2. Then I can write
>
> ? ? l2 = l1[10:]
> ? ? del l1[10:]
>
> But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied.

That's about the best you can do with Python lists.


> Basically, I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which
> returns and removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and
> if not, why not?)

Numpy arrays can share underlying data like that when you take
slices.  For instance, this probably works the way you want:

a = numpy.array([1,2,3,4,5,6])
b = a[:3]
c = a[3:]

None of the actual data was copied here.



Carl Banks


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 01:48:36 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 06:48:36 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.27.1266729715.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b80d744$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:21:47 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> What the OP wants is:
>>
>> (1) assign the name l2 to l1[:10] without copying (2) resize l1 in
>> place to the first 10 items without affecting l2.
>>
>>
> For ten items, though, is it really faster to muck around with array
> lengths than just copying the data over? Array copies are extremely fast
> on modern processors.

My mistake, he actually wants l1[10:] copied. So you might be copying a 
huge amount of data, not just ten items.

Or if you prefer, replace 10 by 100000000.

But in either case, I agree that *in practice* it's rarely an actual 
problem.


> Programmer time and processor time being what it is, I still think my
> answer is the correct one. No, it's not what he says he wants, but it is
> what he needs.

You missed the point that your suggestion gives radically different 
behaviour to what the OP indicated he is using. He mutates the list in 
place, you rebind the list's name. That has *very* different semantics.


>>> a = b = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> del a[2:]  # mutate in place
>>> b
[1, 2]
>>>
>>> a = b = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> a = a[2:]  # rebind the name
>>> b
[1, 2, 3, 4]

The OP may not care about the difference, but if he does require the 
first behaviour, then your solution doesn't help.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 01:50:24 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 06:50:24 GMT
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:31:44 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> The one place where Python does have references is when accessing
> variables in an enclosing scope (not counting module-level).  

What makes you say that?

> But these
> references aren't objects, so you can't store them in a list, so it
> can't help you:

I don't even understand this. Your own example clearly shows that the are 
objects and you can store them in a list, so I have no understanding of 
what you mean.


> def f():
>     s = []
>     a = 1
>     def g():
>         print a

a is a name bound to an object which inherits a __str__ method, hence you 
can print it.

>         s.append(a)

a is bound to an object you can put in a list.

>     g() # prints 1
>     a = 2
>     g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to f's a 
>     print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]

Yes, you are correct that lexical scoping doesn't allow the OP to embed 
references to names in lists. I'm just confused why you think that 
lexical scoping is equivalent to references that can't be put in lists, 
or why you think this behaviour is any different from lexical scoping 
everywhere else?

# Instead of two scopes, f and g, use two scopes, the module (global)
# and local scope g:
s = []
a = 1
def g():
    print a
    s.append(a)

g() # prints 1
a = 2
g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to the global a 
print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]


There is no difference between lexical scoping between a function and a 
nested function, and the lexical scoping between the global namespace and 
a nested function.



-- 
Steven


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 02:12:33 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:12:33 +1300
Subject: Shipping Executables
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2641.1266390065.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.17.07.36.09@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlqmd2$6dl$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:00:59 -0500, geremy condra quoted Banibrata Dutta
> <banibrata.dutta at gmail.com>:
> 
>>> BTW for people who are non-believers in something being worth stealing
>>> needing protection, need to read about the Skype client.
> 
> Pardon me for breaking threading, but the original post has not come 
> through to my provider, only the reply from Geremy.
> 
> Many things are worth stealing and therefore need protection.
> 
> In any case, reverse engineering software is not theft. And even if it 
> were, keeping the source code secret is no barrier to a competent, 
> determined attacker or investigator. Skype is a good example: despite the 
> lack of source code and the secret protocol, analysts were able to 
> discover that TOM-Skype sends personally identifiable information, 
> encryption keys and private messages back to central servers.
> 
> In my personal opinion, releasing closed source software is prima facie 
> evidence that the software is or does something bad: leaking personal 
> information, infringing somebody else's copyright or patent, or just 
> being badly written. I'm not saying that every piece of closed source 
> software is like that, but when you hide the source, the burden of proof 
> is on you to prove that you're not hiding something unpleasant.

You are assuming that everyone who might be interested in copying your code is 
able to reverse-engineer it.  That might be true for software with a high 
commercial value, but it is by no means true for all software.  And in saying 
"when you hide the source, the burden of proof is on you to prove that you're 
not hiding something unpleasant" you are tacitly assuming that the users of the 
software care about having such a thing proven.  I submit that most users do not 
have this "guilty until proven innocent" attitude.

To give a personal example: I plan soon to distribute (free) to anyone 
interested some scientific software.  For various reasons I do not intend to 
distribute the source code at this stage.  I'm quite confident that the users 
(biologists) will have neither the desire nor the ability to reverse-engineer 
it.  Of course I'd be tremendously flattered if they did want to.  I'm also 
confident that they will not suspect me of "hiding something unpleasant".  In 
the worst case they might think the program is useless.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 02:44:29 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:44:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <efaf260f-706b-4512-ae01-dfb91d33e504@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 10:50?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:31:44 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> > The one place where Python does have references is when accessing
> > variables in an enclosing scope (not counting module-level). ?
>
> What makes you say that?
>
> > But these
> > references aren't objects, so you can't store them in a list, so it
> > can't help you:
>
> I don't even understand this. Your own example clearly shows that the are
> objects and you can store them in a list, so I have no understanding of
> what you mean.
>
> > def f():
> > ? ? s = []
> > ? ? a = 1
> > ? ? def g():
> > ? ? ? ? print a
>
> a is a name bound to an object which inherits a __str__ method, hence you
> can print it.
>
> > ? ? ? ? s.append(a)
>
> a is bound to an object you can put in a list.
>
> > ? ? g() # prints 1
> > ? ? a = 2
> > ? ? g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to f's a
> > ? ? print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]
>
> Yes, you are correct that lexical scoping doesn't allow the OP to embed
> references to names in lists. I'm just confused why you think that
> lexical scoping is equivalent to references that can't be put in lists,
> or why you think this behaviour is any different from lexical scoping
> everywhere else?
>
> # Instead of two scopes, f and g, use two scopes, the module (global)
> # and local scope g:
> s = []
> a = 1
> def g():
> ? ? print a
> ? ? s.append(a)
>
> g() # prints 1
> a = 2
> g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to the global a
> print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]
>
> There is no difference between lexical scoping between a function and a
> nested function, and the lexical scoping between the global namespace and
> a nested function.


http://tinyurl.com/8e7tm



Carl Banks


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 02:45:16 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 9:58?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >> ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> >> copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> >> miss rate goes up accordingly.
>
> > A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> > carry through to the cache for the code.
>
> ? ? That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module. ?The
> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
> Python is not.

Of course.  Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
to call exec() or the equivalent.

It works fine if you use os.fork().


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 03:22:56 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:22:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <2c9cf10c-90fc-4b08-9f71-a5a7fb1f8a32@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 6:08?pm, "Martin v. Loewis" <mar... at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> >> class C1:
>
> >> ? ? ?# Pure virtual
> >> ? ? ?def cb(self, param1, param2):
> >> ? ? ? ? ?"""
> >> ? ? ? ? ?This is a callback
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?@param param1: ...
> >> ? ? ? ? ?@param param2: ...
> >> ? ? ? ? ?"""
> >> ? ? ? ? ?raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
>
> >> # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
> >> child classes
> >> def dispatcher(c):
> >> ? ? ?if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
> >> ? ? ? ? ?c.cb("Hello", "World")
>
> >> dispatcher(C2())
> >> dispatcher(C3())
>
> >> What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
> >> if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.
>
> >> Please advise.
>
> > There is nothing more beyond that what you already did. You can raise a
> > NotImplementedError for classes that don't implement the method. That's it.
>
> That's not true. Currently, the hasattr() call would report that cb is
> available, when it is actually not implemented. It would be possible to
> do something like
>
> ? if hasattr(c, 'cb') and not is_pure(c.cb):
> ? ? ? c.cb("Hello", "World")
>
> is_pure could, for example, look at a function attribute of the
> callback. You'd write something like
>
> ? @pure_virtual
> ? def cb(self, param1, param2):
> ? ? ? not_implemented
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Hello Martine,

Can you elaborate more on how to use the mechanism you described?

Thanks,
Elias


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 03:27:24 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:27:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks everyone for the answers.

The dispatcher() is actually sits in C++ code.

So my code receives an object that is an instance of the base class,
it PyObject_GetAttrString(py_obj, 'funcname'). If the attribute exists
I will call PyObject_CallMethod on it.

If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
implement the cb. Now the base class should define it so that doc
parsers properly describe the base class.

The recipe suggested is not worth the trouble.
Unfortunately I cannot use abc module since I use Python 2.5


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Feb 21 04:16:11 2010
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:16:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: datelib pythonification
References: <c9d33c541002201626o4cb51819ycea15bb24933d5d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.15.1266716296.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b11a98b1-4e43-4d74-88d7-9b24cd0743ed@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 12:37?pm, alex goretoy <agore... at gmail.com> wrote:
> hello all,
> ? ? since I posted this last time, I've added a new function dates_diff and

[SNIP]

I'm rather unsure of the context of this posting ... I'm assuming that
the subject "datelib pythonification" refers to trying to make
"datelib" more "pythonic", with which you appear to need help.

Looking just at the new "function" (looks like a method to me)
dates_diff, problems include:

1. Mostly ignores PEP-8 about spaces after commas, around operators
2. Checks types
3. Checks types using type(x) == type(y)
4. Inconsistent type checking: checks types in case of
dates_diff(date1, date2) but not in case of dates_diff([date1, date2])
5. Doesn't check for 3 or more args.
6. The 0-arg case is for what purpose?
7. The one-arg case is overkill -- if the caller has the two values in
alist, all you are saving them from is the * in dates_diff(*alist)
8. Calling type(date.today()) once per 2-arg call would be a gross
extravagance; calling it twice per 2-arg call is mind-boggling.
9. start,end=(targs[0][0],targs[0][1]) ... multiple constant
subscripts is a code smell; this one is pongier than usual because it
could easily be replaced by start, end = targs[0]

Untested fix of problems 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9:

DATE_TYPE = type(date.today())

def dates_diff(self, *targs):
    nargs = len(targs)
    if nargs == 0:
        return self.enddate - self.startdate
    if nargs == 1:
        arg = targs[0]
        if not isinstance(arg, (list, tuple)) or len(arg) != 2:
            raise Exception(
                "single arg must be list or tuple of length 2")
        start, end = arg
    elif nargs == 2:
        start, end = targs
    else:
        raise Exception("expected 0,1, or 2 args; found %d" % nargs)
    if isinstance(start, DATE_TYPE) and isinstance(end, DATE_TYPE):
        return end - start
    raise Exception("both values must be of type DATE_TYPE")

HTH,

John



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 21 04:24:24 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:24:24 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <2c9cf10c-90fc-4b08-9f71-a5a7fb1f8a32@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>
	<2c9cf10c-90fc-4b08-9f71-a5a7fb1f8a32@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B80FBC8.3070102@v.loewis.de>

>> That's not true. Currently, the hasattr() call would report that cb is
>> available, when it is actually not implemented. It would be possible to
>> do something like
>>
>>   if hasattr(c, 'cb') and not is_pure(c.cb):
>>       c.cb("Hello", "World")
>>
>> is_pure could, for example, look at a function attribute of the
>> callback. You'd write something like
>>
>>   @pure_virtual
>>   def cb(self, param1, param2):
>>       not_implemented
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin
> 
> Hello Martine,
> 
> Can you elaborate more on how to use the mechanism you described?

There are various ways to do it; the one I had in mind uses function
attributes:

def pure_virtual(func):
  func.pure_virtual = True # only presence of attribute matters,
                           # not value
  return func

def is_pure(method): # method might be either a method or a function
  try:
    func = method.im_func
  except AttributeError:
    func = method
  return hasattr(func, 'pure_virtual')

not_implemented = object() # could also write pass instead, or raise

HTH,
Martin


From as at sci.fi  Sun Feb 21 04:40:19 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:40:19 +0200
Subject: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz on Cent OS - Python 2.4
References: <9d373498-df99-41ef-b193-0c05073166ff@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg3y6inlyf0.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

V8 NUT <olaye1977 at googlemail.com> writes:

> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

Could it be you're missing zlib-devel? What does yum info zlib-devel
say? Or locate libz?


From noamraph at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 04:42:56 2010
From: noamraph at gmail.com (Noam Yorav-Raphael)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:42:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
Message-ID: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
Python shell!

Some highlights:

* Has whatever you would expect from a graphical Python shell -
attribute completion, tooltips which show how to call functions,
highlighting of matching parentheses, etc.
* Fixes a lot of IDLE nuisances - in DreamPie interrupt always works,
history recall and completion works as expected, etc.
* Results are saved in the Result History.
* Long output is automatically folded so you can focus on what's
important.
* Jython and IronPython support makes DreamPie a great tool for
exploring Java and .NET classes.
* You can copy any amount of code and immediately execute it, and you
can also copy code you typed interactively into a new file, with the
Copy Code Only command. No tabs are used!
* Free software licensed under GPL version 3.

Check it out at http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/ and tell me what you
think!

Have fun,
Noam


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 05:21:44 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:21:44 +1100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b810953$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/21/10 19:27, lallous wrote:
<snip>
> If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
> would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
> want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
> implement the cb. 

That sounds like a microoptimization; have you profiled your code and
determined that calling empty function causes a bottleneck? I doubt it.

> Now the base class should define it so that doc
> parsers properly describe the base class.

> The recipe suggested is not worth the trouble.
> Unfortunately I cannot use abc module since I use Python 2.5

Because nobody here could have guessed that your dispatcher was written
in C++; your problem is near trivial if your dispatcher is a pure-python
code.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 05:25:03 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:25:03 +1100
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <4b80b4b4$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b80b4b4$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4b810a1a$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/21/10 15:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
> Python doesn't store variables in lists, it stores objects, always.
> 
> Even Python variables aren't variables *grin*, although it's really 
> difficult to avoid using the term. Python variables are mappings between 
> names (strings) and objects, not memory locations.

Actually, no programming languages have used the term "variable"
correctly, as per its original mathematical definition.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 06:17:50 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 11:17:50 GMT
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<efaf260f-706b-4512-ae01-dfb91d33e504@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b81165e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:44:29 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Feb 20, 10:50?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:

>> What makes you say that?
[...]
>> I don't even understand this.
[...]
>> I'm just confused why you think that
>> lexical scoping is equivalent to references that can't be put in lists,
>> or why you think this behaviour is any different from lexical scoping
>> everywhere else?

> http://tinyurl.com/8e7tm

Ha ha ha, very amusing. But I was genuinely confused, because I know 
you're an experienced Python coder and not some n00b, so I thought maybe 
you were referring to something that escaped me. Your response, apt 
though it may be, does nothing to clear up my confusion.

Presumably if you had a serious response you would have made it, so I'll 
chalk it up to a generalised confusion field.

*wink*


-- 
Steven


From aaan at email.dk  Sun Feb 21 07:51:36 2010
From: aaan at email.dk (Aage Andersen (REMOVE))
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:51:36 +0100
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b812c5b$0$56795$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>

I tried to edit the awfully colors, here are the results:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dreampie.py", line 4, <module>()
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 972, main()
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 153, 
__init__(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"), 
pyexec='C:\\Python26\\python.exe')
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 829, 
configure(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"))
  File "dreampielib\gui\tags.pyc", line 224, 
apply_theme_text(textview=<gtk.Tex...xd82038)>, 
textbuffer=<gtk.Tex...xd816d0)>, theme={('bracket-match', 'bg', 'color'): 
'darkblue', ('bracket-match', 'bg', 'isset'): True, ('bracket-match', 'fg', 
'color'): 'white', ('bracket-match', 'fg', 'isset'): False, ...})
ValueError: unable to parse colour specification

Now the program don't run.

Aage




From aaan at email.dk  Sun Feb 21 08:06:54 2010
From: aaan at email.dk (Aage Andersen (REMOVE))
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:06:54 +0100
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b812c5b$0$56795$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <4b812ff1$0$56776$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>

I reinstalled and got this message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dreampie.py", line 4, <module>()
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 972, main()
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 153, 
__init__(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"), 
pyexec='C:\\Python26\\python.exe')
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 829, 
configure(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"))
  File "dreampielib\gui\tags.pyc", line 224, 
apply_theme_text(textview=<gtk.Tex...xd82038)>, 
textbuffer=<gtk.Tex...xd816d0)>, theme={('bracket-match', 'bg', 'color'): 
'darkblue', ('bracket-match', 'bg', 'isset'): True, ('bracket-match', 'fg', 
'color'): 'white', ('bracket-match', 'fg', 'isset'): False, ...})
ValueError: unable to parse colour specification

Aage




From noamraph at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 08:18:23 2010
From: noamraph at gmail.com (Noam Yorav-Raphael)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:18:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b812c5b$0$56795$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
	<4b812ff1$0$56776$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <bbb99d46-3736-47d5-a874-5989fcfa9ae5@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Delete \Documents and Settings\<username>\DreamPie and it should now
work.
Did you edit the colors using the configuration window or manually?
If you edited them using the configuration window, can you give
instructions on how to reproduce the bug?

Noam

On Feb 21, 3:06?pm, "Aage Andersen" <aaan(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote:
> I reinstalled and got this message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "dreampie.py", line 4, <module>()
> ? File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 972, main()
> ? File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 153,
> __init__(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"),
> pyexec='C:\\Python26\\python.exe')
> ? File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 829,
> configure(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"))
> ? File "dreampielib\gui\tags.pyc", line 224,
> apply_theme_text(textview=<gtk.Tex...xd82038)>,
> textbuffer=<gtk.Tex...xd816d0)>, theme={('bracket-match', 'bg', 'color'):
> 'darkblue', ('bracket-match', 'bg', 'isset'): True, ('bracket-match', 'fg',
> 'color'): 'white', ('bracket-match', 'fg', 'isset'): False, ...})
> ValueError: unable to parse colour specification
>
> Aage



From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 10:54:31 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:54:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<87tytfbaq6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <fd543b70-b2bb-44b1-9a9f-a4c6b33a55e3@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:20?am, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Right, isolation [of test cases] is essential. But I can't decide to
> > which extent I should propagate isolation.
>
> You used ?propagate? in a sense I don't understand there.
>
> > For example, in "Python Testing: Beginner's Guide" by Daniel Arbuckle,
> > author suggests that if you do unittesting you should isolate the
> > smallest units of code from each other.
>
> I'm not sure what the author means, but I would say that as it stands
> that advice is independent of what testing is being done. In all cases:
>
> * Make your code units small, so each one is not doing much and is easy
> ? to understand.
>
> * Make the interface of units at each level as narrow as feasible, so
> ? they're not brittle in the face of changes to the implementation.
>
> > For example, if you have a
> > class:
> > Class SomeClass(object):
> > ? ? def method1(self):
> > ? ? ? ? return 5
> > ? ? def method2(self):
> > ? ? ? ? return self.method1 + 10
>
> > According to the book, if you want to test method2, you should isolate
> > it from method1 and class instance('self').
>
> I don't really know what that means.
>
> Remember that each test case should not be ?test method1?. That is far
> too broad, and in some cases too narrow. There is no one-to-one mapping
> between methods and unit test cases.
>
> Instead, each test case should test one true-or-false assertion about
> the behaviour of the code. ?When we start with this initial state (the
> test fixture), and perform this operation, the resulting state is that?.
>
> It makes a lot of sense to name the test case so the assertion being
> made *is* its name: not ?test frobnicate? with dozens of assertions, but
> one ?test_frobnicate_with_valid_spangulator_returns_true? which makes
> that assertion, and extra ones for each distinct assertion.
>
> The failure of a unit test case should indicate *exactly* what has gone
> wrong. If you want to make multiple assertions about a code unit, write
> multiple test cases for that unit and name the tests accordingly.
>
> This incidentally requires that you test something small enough that
> such a true-or-false assertion is meaningful, which leads to
> well-designed code with small easily-tested code units. But that's an
> emergent property, not a natural law.
>
> > Currently, I don't create mocks of units if they are within the same
> > class with the unit under test. If that is not right approach, please,
> > explain what are best practices... I am just learning TDD..
>
> In the fixture of the unit test case, create whatever test doubles are
> necessary to put your code into the initial state you need for the test
> case; then tear all those down whatever the result of the test case.
>
> If you need to create great honking wads of fixtures for any test case,
> that is a code smell: your code units are too tightly coupled to
> persistent state, and need to be decoupled with narrow interfaces.
>
> The Python ?unittest? module makes this easier by letting you define
> fixtures common to many test cases (the ?setUp? and ?tearDown?
> interface). My rule of thumb is: if I need to make different fixtures
> for some set of test cases, I write a new test case class for those
> cases.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ? ?Following fashion and the status quo is easy. Thinking about |
> ? `\ ? ? ? ?your users' lives and creating something practical is much |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?harder.? ?Ryan Singer, 2008-07-09 |
> Ben Finney

Hi, Ben!!!

Sorry for too late reply!!!
Thank you very much for sharing your experience! I still have to grasp
a lot in TDD.


From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 11:30:27 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:30:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 3:42?am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> Python shell!
>
What versions of Python does it suuport?


From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 11:32:35 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:32:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 10:30?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 3:42 am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> > Python shell!
>
> What versions of Python does it suuport?

What OS are supported?


From skraj23mbec at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 11:46:55 2010
From: skraj23mbec at gmail.com (sk raj)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:46:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Free chat for u.....hot.hot.....hot..............
Message-ID: <1aa805b5-f000-41ba-9718-defd75ee330c@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

http://chattingfree.blogspot.com/


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 11:51:40 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:51:40 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002210851r52e63cen50b6815ab3a15b2f@mail.gmail.com>

http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/download.html

reading is a wonderful thing.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Mensanator <mensanator at aol.com> wrote:

> On Feb 21, 10:30?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 21, 3:42 am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:> I'm
> pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> > > Python shell!
> >
> > What versions of Python does it suuport?
>
> What OS are supported?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 12:13:50 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:13:50 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>

This is bloody fantastic! I must say, this fixes everything I hate about
Ipython and gives me the feature I wished it had (with a few minor
exceptions).

I confirm this working on Kubuntu 9.10 using the ppa listed on the sites
download page.

I also confirm that it works interactively with PyQt4 and PyGtk (as to be
expected since these toolkits use the PyOS_inputhook for the mainloop).
However, it does not work interactively with wx (again, this is as expected
since wx doesn't use the PyOS_inputhook). In short, the gui toolkit support
is the same as in Ipython if you dont use any of the magic threading
switches, which are now deprecated anyway.

Matplotlib does not work interactively for me. Is there a special switch
that needs to be used? or should a pick a non-wx backend? (i'm thinking the
latter is more likely)

A couple of things I would like to see (and will help implement if I can
find the time):
1) A shortcut to show the docstring of an object. Something like Ipython's
`?`. i.e.  `object.foo?` translates to `help(object.foo)`
2) How do I change the color of the blinking cursor at the bottom? I can't
see the damn thing!
3) line numbers instead of the `>>>` prompt
4) a plugin facility where we can define our own `magic` commands. I use
Ipython's %timeit ALL the time.
5) Double-click to re-fold the output section as well.

Thanks for making this!!!!

Cheers,

Chris


On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamraph at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> Python shell!
>
> Some highlights:
>
> * Has whatever you would expect from a graphical Python shell -
> attribute completion, tooltips which show how to call functions,
> highlighting of matching parentheses, etc.
> * Fixes a lot of IDLE nuisances - in DreamPie interrupt always works,
> history recall and completion works as expected, etc.
> * Results are saved in the Result History.
> * Long output is automatically folded so you can focus on what's
> important.
> * Jython and IronPython support makes DreamPie a great tool for
> exploring Java and .NET classes.
> * You can copy any amount of code and immediately execute it, and you
> can also copy code you typed interactively into a new file, with the
> Copy Code Only command. No tabs are used!
> * Free software licensed under GPL version 3.
>
> Check it out at http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/ and tell me what you
> think!
>
> Have fun,
> Noam
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 12:28:01 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:28:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Saving the Interactive Window with PythonWin
Message-ID: <2485b80a-3d51-4627-95d4-eef6dc7a6445@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

When I run a python script, I know that I can print the results of my
calculations on the Interactive Window. Once the scripts ends, I can
copy/pate these results on an OpenOffice Writer document.

However, I would like to know if I can somehow add some lines to my
script, so that it saves the Interactive Window to a text file. How
could it be done?

And, is there a way to programatically clear out the Interactive
Window so that it only shows the last run?

Thank you for your help


From iurisilvio at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 12:38:51 2010
From: iurisilvio at gmail.com (Iuri)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:38:51 -0200
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <789aac5a1002210938o513573b3ve3b460ad1a166b74@mail.gmail.com>

I tested it in Windows Vista.

When I type single or double quotes, I get a unicode character, different of
python's quotes, and it break my code.

But i liked this tool! Thanks!

[]s
iuri



On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Chris Colbert <sccolbert at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is bloody fantastic! I must say, this fixes everything I hate about
> Ipython and gives me the feature I wished it had (with a few minor
> exceptions).
>
> I confirm this working on Kubuntu 9.10 using the ppa listed on the sites
> download page.
>
> I also confirm that it works interactively with PyQt4 and PyGtk (as to be
> expected since these toolkits use the PyOS_inputhook for the mainloop).
> However, it does not work interactively with wx (again, this is as expected
> since wx doesn't use the PyOS_inputhook). In short, the gui toolkit support
> is the same as in Ipython if you dont use any of the magic threading
> switches, which are now deprecated anyway.
>
> Matplotlib does not work interactively for me. Is there a special switch
> that needs to be used? or should a pick a non-wx backend? (i'm thinking the
> latter is more likely)
>
> A couple of things I would like to see (and will help implement if I can
> find the time):
> 1) A shortcut to show the docstring of an object. Something like Ipython's
> `?`. i.e.  `object.foo?` translates to `help(object.foo)`
> 2) How do I change the color of the blinking cursor at the bottom? I can't
> see the damn thing!
> 3) line numbers instead of the `>>>` prompt
> 4) a plugin facility where we can define our own `magic` commands. I use
> Ipython's %timeit ALL the time.
> 5) Double-click to re-fold the output section as well.
>
> Thanks for making this!!!!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamraph at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
>> Python shell!
>>
>> Some highlights:
>>
>> * Has whatever you would expect from a graphical Python shell -
>> attribute completion, tooltips which show how to call functions,
>> highlighting of matching parentheses, etc.
>> * Fixes a lot of IDLE nuisances - in DreamPie interrupt always works,
>> history recall and completion works as expected, etc.
>> * Results are saved in the Result History.
>> * Long output is automatically folded so you can focus on what's
>> important.
>> * Jython and IronPython support makes DreamPie a great tool for
>> exploring Java and .NET classes.
>> * You can copy any amount of code and immediately execute it, and you
>> can also copy code you typed interactively into a new file, with the
>> Copy Code Only command. No tabs are used!
>> * Free software licensed under GPL version 3.
>>
>> Check it out at http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/ and tell me what you
>> think!
>>
>> Have fun,
>> Noam
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Feb 21 12:44:25 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:44:25 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <654D55F2-B276-44E6-A6EF-A9D3A2B5002F@gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<654D55F2-B276-44E6-A6EF-A9D3A2B5002F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002210944o2e96bf0aj5370961af959d6a3@mail.gmail.com>

@"ssteinerX at gmail.com" <ssteinerx at gmail.com>
"See this article for some more info about the reported sizes of things:
http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/sys/limits.html"

I posted this question on stack overflow. I now have a better appreciation
of ssteinerX suggestions of the above link and guppy, I also had pympler
suggested.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2306523/reading-text-files-into-list-then-storing-in-dictionay-fills-system-memory-a


Thanks again


  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:15 PM, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Feb 20, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Vincent Davis wrote:
>
> Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
> files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets so
> slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
> shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6 64bit).
> The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure what
> is happening.
>
>
> See this article for some more info about the reported sizes of things:
> http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/sys/limits.html
>
> S
>
>
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From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 12:53:45 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:53:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
Message-ID: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
I've tried:

print format(.7,'%%')
.7.format('%%')

but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...

Can you help?

Thank you


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:09:51 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:09:51 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002210851r52e63cen50b6815ab3a15b2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7f014ea61002210851r52e63cen50b6815ab3a15b2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <202C3A0D-E637-4C46-9CB4-BD288BC8F618@gmail.com>


On Feb 21, 2010, at 11:51 AM, Chris Colbert wrote:

> http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/download.html
> 
> reading is a wonderful thing.

I got it running on OS X with MacPorts after about an hour of installing everything required for gtk and gtksourceview (including a new gcc, apparently).

Now...if I can just figure out how to set the font to something I can actually read both size and anti-alias-wise.

S


> 
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Mensanator <mensanator at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 10:30?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 21, 3:42 am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> > > Python shell!
> >
> > What versions of Python does it suuport?
> 
> What OS are supported?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From tomf.sessile at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:11:19 2010
From: tomf.sessile at gmail.com (TomF)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:11:19 -0800
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2010022110111943658-tomfsessile@gmailcom>

On 2010-02-21 09:53:45 -0800, vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> said:
> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> I've tried:
> 
> print format(.7,'%%')
> .7.format('%%')
> 
> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...

>>> print "Grade is {0:%}".format(.87)
Grade is 87.000000%

or if you want to suppress those trailing zeroes:

>>> print "Grade is {0:.0%}".format(.87)
Grade is 87%



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Feb 21 13:14:21 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:14:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb, 17:32, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 10:30 am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > What versions of Python does it suuport?
>
> What OS are supported?

>From the Web site referenced in the announcement (http://
dreampie.sourceforge.net/):

"""
# Supports Python 2.5, Python 2.6, Jython 2.5, IronPython 2.6 and
Python 3.1.
# Works on Windows and Linux.
"""

Paul


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:14:57 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:57 -0500
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
In-Reply-To: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002211014j949dd8dg404fb84b58d66227@mail.gmail.com>

>>> print('%.0f%%' % (0.7*100))
70%

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:53 PM, vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> I've tried:
>
> print format(.7,'%%')
> .7.format('%%')
>
> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...
>
> Can you help?
>
> Thank you
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:15:18 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:15:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <25c91c15-9710-4edd-8e7f-c2057375be39@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 5:53?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> I've tried:
>
> print format(.7,'%%')
> .7.format('%%')
>
> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...

Assuming that you're using Python 2.6 (or Python 3.x):

>>> format(.7, '%')
'70.000000%'
>>> format(.7, '.2%')
'70.00%'

Or see TomF's response for how to use this with the str.format method.

--
Mark


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:17:18 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:17:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<2010022110111943658-tomfsessile@gmailcom>
Message-ID: <f2a0fdd6-b97d-4efe-aa38-8cab214f497f@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 7:11?pm, TomF <tomf.sess... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-02-21 09:53:45 -0800, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> said:
>
> > I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> > I've tried:
>
> > print format(.7,'%%')
> > .7.format('%%')
>
> > but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...
> >>> print "Grade is {0:%}".format(.87)
>
> Grade is 87.000000%
>
> or if you want to suppress those trailing zeroes:
>
> >>> print "Grade is {0:.0%}".format(.87)
>
> Grade is 87%

Excellent, works perfect!!!


From gd_usenet at spamfence.net  Sun Feb 21 13:18:05 2010
From: gd_usenet at spamfence.net (=?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:18:05 +0100
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>

vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
>I've tried:
>
>print format(.7,'%%')
>.7.format('%%')
>
>but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...

Did you try this:

>>> print('%d%%' % (0.7 * 100))
70%



Best regards,

G?nther


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Feb 21 13:22:30 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:22:30 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
>> then?
>
> Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in
> functional languages.

Heh! When I learned Miranda it felt natural to me. Prolog on the other
hand...

In short: I am afraid you're overgeneralizing here; it depends on one's
background. If not, citation needed ;-)

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Feb 21 13:28:46 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <238ce1ab-e216-417f-942f-8776370ef266@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb, 03:00, "sjdevn... at yahoo.com" <sjdevn... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:58?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>
> > ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> > copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> > miss rate goes up accordingly.
>
> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> carry through to the cache for the code.

True, but the principal issue with CPython and copy-on-write is the
reference counting. Consider a large list shared with the child
processes which is to be processed (either in part or in its entirety)
by each of them. As soon as the child processes start referencing each
of the elements, the reference count for each element object will need
to be changed and pages will start to be copied for each child
process. That's why John wants to avoid the reference counting of
shared data and why the Unladen Swallow project has apparently
considered storing reference counts in separate regions of memory.

Such shared data is really "owned" by the parent process, so it makes
little sense for the child processes to manage it with a view to
collecting it later. After all, such data should have no cost to each
of the child processes (except, perhaps, for the size of the address
space referenced by each process, and any resource issues arising from
managing that).

Paul


From marwie at gmx.de  Sun Feb 21 14:07:24 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:07:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <debd09ca-06ce-4ef2-a977-e677a46deedf@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb., 04:40, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> Additionally, Python lists are over-allocated so that appends are fast. A
> list of (say) 1000 items might be over-allocated to (say) 1024 items, so
> that you can do 24 appends before the array is full and the array needs
> to be resized. This means that, on average, Python list appending is O(1)
> instead of O(N). You can't just change the length blindly, you need to
> worry about the over-allocation.

Ok, I see your point. However, other data representation might still
be able to optimize such a multi-element pop. I'm thinking of deques,
for example.

> I'm sympathetic to your concern: I've often felt offended that doing
> something like this:
>
> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
> for item in x[1:]:
> ? ? process(item)
>
> has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But
> honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.

Good grief, it copies that, too? I assumed that the copying is at
least delayed until the assignment and that x[1:] is represented by
some wrapper that just shuffles the indices around (much like
the .indices method that MRAB suggested).

Maybe copying chunks of data really isn't that much of an issue as it
used to be (and maybe I'm getting old). The application I have in mind
has to do with symbolic computation, and expressions would be
represented by python lists. It's too early to do any profiling (in
fact, it's at the "deciding if python is the right language to
implement it" stage), but it will have to handle expressions with many
terms (i.e. long lists), and in the end taking these lists apart and
putting them back together in different order is the only thing the
code will do. That to explain my interest in performance issues
related to pyhton lists.

Anyway, thanks for your help.
Martin.


From marwie at gmx.de  Sun Feb 21 14:08:30 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<2df4ab82-7877-43f5-ac00-a780885e1950@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c9ef869b-8369-45e8-8613-1d06defea348@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb., 07:38, Carl Banks <pavlovevide... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Numpy arrays can share underlying data like that when you take
> slices. ?For instance, this probably works the way you want:
>
> a = numpy.array([1,2,3,4,5,6])
> b = a[:3]
> c = a[3:]
>
> None of the actual data was copied here.

Hmm, that might be worth looking into. Thanks.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb 21 14:29:22 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:29:22 +0000
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <4B80B89B.1030109@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B80B89B.1030109@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4B818992.8060703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

MRAB wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> [snip]
>> I'm sympathetic to your concern: I've often felt offended that doing 
>> something like this:
>>
>> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
>> for item in x[1:]:
>>     process(item)
>>
>> has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But 
>> honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.
>>
> [snip]
> Could lists gain an .items() method with start and end positions? I was
> thinking that it would be a 'view', like with dicts in Python 3. Of
> course, that would only be worthwhile with very long lists:
> 
> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
> for item in x.items(1):
>     process(item)

Actually, my example is a bit wrong! My suggestion should have said that
the arguments of list.items would resemble those of range:

x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
for item in x.items(1, None): # [1 : None], or just [1 : ]
     process(item)

Having a third 'stride' argument would also be possible.


From m.11ahesh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 15:24:09 2010
From: m.11ahesh at gmail.com (MY NAME IS MY NAME)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:24:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FOREX : Foreign Exchange Market : FX : Currency Market : Earn Money 
	Quickly.
Message-ID: <d2cfeb77-4de0-484c-8c16-f3b69701d855@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Feb 21 16:18:28 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:18:28 -0800
Subject: How would I do a continuous write over a pipe in the following 
	code...
In-Reply-To: <2NydneBvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
References: <9d0f6456-97c7-4bde-8e07-9576b02f91f9@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<2NydneBvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002211318s3b437bd0pa13e5f239dfe0e29@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:46:24 -0800 (PST), chad <cdalten at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>
>> Given the following....
>>
>> #!/usr/bin/python
>>
>> import subprocess as s
>>
>> broadcast = s.Popen("echo test | wall", shell=True,stdout=s.PIPE)
>>
>> out = broadcast.stdout
>> while 1:
>> ? ? out
>
> ? ? ? ?Does nothing... "out" is a name bound to the object identified by
> "broadcast.stdout"...
>
> ? ? ? ?It does nothing unless it is called as...
>
> ? ? ? ?out(somedata)

I'm pretty sure you meant:

out.write(somedata)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 21 16:22:28 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:22:28 +0100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>

John Nagle wrote:
>    I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
> multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
> ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate
> if the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time,
> but it's worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to
> a lame locking implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded
> code on a dual-core CPU runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core
> CPU, according to Beasley.

I couldn't reproduce these results on Linux. Not sure what "HALF AS
FAST" is; I suppose it means "it runs TWICE AS LONG" - this is what I
couldn't reproduce.

If I run Beazley's program on Linux 2.6.26, on a 4 processor Xeon (3GHz)
machine, I get 30s for the sequential execution, 40s for the
multi-threaded case, and 32s for the multi-threaded case when pinning
the Python process to a single CPU (using taskset(1)).

So it's 6% overhead for threading, and 25% penalty for multicore CPUs -
far from the 100% you seem to expect.

Regards,
Martin


From debacle at debian.org  Sun Feb 21 16:25:11 2010
From: debacle at debian.org (W. Martin Borgert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:25:11 +0100
Subject: Use eval() safely?
Message-ID: <20100221212511.GA23046@beron.tangosoft.com>

Hi,

I know that this issue has been discussed before, but most of
the time using only one argument to eval().

Is it possible to use the following code, e.g. run as part of a
web application, to break in and if so, how?

import math

def myeval(untrustedinput):
    return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
                { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })

Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the
untrusted input string?

Which Python built-ins and math functions would I have to add to
the functions dictionary to make it unsafe?

TIA! (Please cc me, thanks.)


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 16:40:41 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:40:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3758eba1-2967-4de3-a3d0-79edc5dd571e@c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 5:55?pm, marwie <mar... at gmx.de> wrote:
> On 21 Feb., 02:30, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
>
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, so copying a slice is
> > fast: it doesn't have to copy the objects, just pointers. Deleting from
> > the end of the list is also quick, because you don't have to move memory,
> > just clear some pointers and change the length field.
>
> > Splitting such an array without copying data is, essentially, impossible.
> > Python lists aren't linked lists.
>
> Well, to split a C array I would simply set l2 to point to l1[10] and
> then
> change the length of l1 (which I store somewhere else). No copying of
> elements
> needed. I would have assumed that python can do something like this
> with its
> internal arrays of pointers, too.
>

When you remove 10 elements off of a list of size 1000, none of the
objects themselves are moved, but the pointers to the objects are all
moved, so k*990 bytes get moved backward, where k is the size of a
pointer (4 or 8 typically on modern computers).

There is no mechanism to advance a pointer forward when you delete or
pop from the top.

I proposed the following patch to implement an advance-the-pointer
scheme, but it is unlikely to be accepted in the near future:

    http://bugs.python.org/file16034/no_mem_penalty.diff

    http://bugs.python.org/issue7784

You can find alternative data structures that might serve your needs
better, such as collections.deque.

If you are interested in how Python lists work internally, you mostly
want to look at listobject.c:

  http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/listobject.c?view=markup

In particular, look at list_resize(), list_slice(), and
list_ass_slice().



From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 16:40:54 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:40:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 12:14?pm, Paul Boddie <p... at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> On 21 Feb, 17:32, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 10:30 am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > What versions of Python does it suuport?
>
> > What OS are supported?
>
> From the Web site referenced in the announcement (http://
> dreampie.sourceforge.net/):
>
> """
> # Supports Python 2.5, Python 2.6, Jython 2.5, IronPython 2.6 and
> Python 3.1.
> # Works on Windows and Linux.
> """

Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something important like that wasn't part
of the
announcement. I notice no mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website
was a complete
waste of time on my part, wasn't it?

> Paul



From ryan at rfk.id.au  Sun Feb 21 16:45:50 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:45:50 +1100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <1266788750.2990.4.camel@durian>

On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 22:22 +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> John Nagle wrote:
> >    I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
> > multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
> > ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate
> > if the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time,
> > but it's worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to
> > a lame locking implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded
> > code on a dual-core CPU runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core
> > CPU, according to Beasley.
> 
> I couldn't reproduce these results on Linux. Not sure what "HALF AS
> FAST" is; I suppose it means "it runs TWICE AS LONG" - this is what I
> couldn't reproduce.
> 
> If I run Beazley's program on Linux 2.6.26, on a 4 processor Xeon (3GHz)
> machine, I get 30s for the sequential execution, 40s for the
> multi-threaded case, and 32s for the multi-threaded case when pinning
> the Python process to a single CPU (using taskset(1)).
> 
> So it's 6% overhead for threading, and 25% penalty for multicore CPUs -
> far from the 100% you seem to expect.

It's far from scientific, but I've seen behaviour that's close to a 100%
performance penalty on a dual-core linux system:

   http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/a-gil-adventure-threading2

Short story:  a particular test suite of mine used to run in around 25
seconds, but a bit of ctypes magic to set thread affinity dropped the
running time to under 13 seconds.


  Cheers,

     Ryan

-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From bartc at freeuk.com  Sun Feb 21 16:54:30 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:54:30 GMT
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qYhgn.42798$Ym4.16651@text.news.virginmedia.com>


"Michael Pardee" <python-list at open-sense.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list at python.org...
> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following 
> behavior:
>
>>>> a=1
>>>> b=2
>>>> mylist=[a,b]
>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>>>> a=3
>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>
> Whoah!  Are python lists only for literals?  Nope:
>
>>>> c={}
>>>> d={}
>>>> mydlist=[c,d]
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {}]
>>>> c['x']=1
>>>> print mydlist
> [{'x': 1}, {}]
>
> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
> This seems to confirm that:
>
> mydlist[1]['y']=4
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {'y': 4}]
>
> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a

That shows a different outlook. I would have said your first example works 
as expected and it was the second example that was strange, possibly due to 
shallow instead of deep copies by Python.

-- 
Bartc 



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 17:01:25 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:01:25 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0F03CC9E-6D2C-4D70-8327-5B45D475ED07@gmail.com>


On Feb 21, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Mensanator wrote:

> On Feb 21, 12:14 pm, Paul Boddie <p... at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 21 Feb, 17:32, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 10:30 am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> What versions of Python does it suuport?
>> 
>>> What OS are supported?
>> 
>> From the Web site referenced in the announcement (http://
>> dreampie.sourceforge.net/):
>> 
>> """
>> # Supports Python 2.5, Python 2.6, Jython 2.5, IronPython 2.6 and
>> Python 3.1.
>> # Works on Windows and Linux.
>> """
> 
> Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something important like that wasn't part
> of the
> announcement. I notice no mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website
> was a complete
> waste of time on my part, wasn't it?

See my earlier message -- I have it running just fine on 10.6 with MacPorts and even managed to report a bug!

S


> 
>> Paul
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 21 17:05:44 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:05:44 +0100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B81AE38.50501@v.loewis.de>

> It's far from scientific, but I've seen behaviour that's close to a 100%
> performance penalty on a dual-core linux system:
> 
>    http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/a-gil-adventure-threading2
> 
> Short story:  a particular test suite of mine used to run in around 25
> seconds, but a bit of ctypes magic to set thread affinity dropped the
> running time to under 13 seconds.

Indeed, it's not scientific - but with a few more details, you could
improve it quite a lot: what specific Linux distribution (the posting
doesn't even say it's Linux), what specific Python version had you been
using? (less important) what CPUs? If you can: what specific test suite?

A lot of science is about repeatability. Making a systematic study is
(IMO) over-valued - anecdotal reports are useful, too, as long as they
allow for repeatable experiments.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 21 17:05:44 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:05:44 +0100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B81AE38.50501@v.loewis.de>

> It's far from scientific, but I've seen behaviour that's close to a 100%
> performance penalty on a dual-core linux system:
> 
>    http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/a-gil-adventure-threading2
> 
> Short story:  a particular test suite of mine used to run in around 25
> seconds, but a bit of ctypes magic to set thread affinity dropped the
> running time to under 13 seconds.

Indeed, it's not scientific - but with a few more details, you could
improve it quite a lot: what specific Linux distribution (the posting
doesn't even say it's Linux), what specific Python version had you been
using? (less important) what CPUs? If you can: what specific test suite?

A lot of science is about repeatability. Making a systematic study is
(IMO) over-valued - anecdotal reports are useful, too, as long as they
allow for repeatable experiments.

Regards,
Martin


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Sun Feb 21 17:39:27 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:39:27 +1100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4B81AE38.50501@v.loewis.de>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4B81AE38.50501@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <1266791967.4574.16.camel@durian>

On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 23:05 +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote: 
> > It's far from scientific, but I've seen behaviour that's close to a 100%
> > performance penalty on a dual-core linux system:
> > 
> >    http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/a-gil-adventure-threading2
> > 
> > Short story:  a particular test suite of mine used to run in around 25
> > seconds, but a bit of ctypes magic to set thread affinity dropped the
> > running time to under 13 seconds.
> 
> Indeed, it's not scientific - but with a few more details, you could
> improve it quite a lot: what specific Linux distribution (the posting
> doesn't even say it's Linux), what specific Python version had you been
> using? (less important) what CPUs? If you can: what specific test suite?

I'm on Ubuntu Karmic, Python 2.6.4, an AMD Athlon 7750 dual core.

Unfortunately the test suite is for a proprietary application.  I've
been able to reproduce similar behaviour with an open-source test suite,
using the current trunk of the "pyfilesystem" project:

  http://code.google.com/p/pyfilesystem/


In this project "OSFS" is an object-oriented interface to the local
filesystem.  The test case "TestOSFS.test_cases_in_separate_dirs" runs
three theads, each doing a bunch of IO in a different directory.

Running the tests normally:

    rfk at durian:/storage/software/fs$ nosetests fs/tests/test_fs.py:TestOSFS.test_cases_in_separate_dirs
    .
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ran 1 test in 9.787s


That's the best result from five runs - I saw it go as high as 12
seconds.  Watching it in top, I see CPU usage at around 150%.

Now using threading2 to set the process cpu affinity at the start of the
test run:

    rfk at durian:/storage/software/fs$ nosetests fs/tests/test_fs.py:TestOSFS.test_cases_in_separate_dirs
    .
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ran 1 test in 3.792s


Again, best of five.  The variability in times here is much lower - I
never saw it go above 4 seconds.  CPU usage is consistently 100%.



  Cheers,

     Ryan


-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details


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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Feb 21 18:18:19 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:18:19 -0800
Subject: with statement and standard library
In-Reply-To: <4b81bbf7$0$1659$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<4b81bbf7$0$1659$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002211518r5ce8c57auf3485ebb52ce33ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:21 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
> nobrowser wrote:
>>
>> Hi. ?The with statement is certainly nifty. ?The trouble is, the
>> *only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
>> classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
>> which I almost never use. ?Yet there are many, many classes in the
>> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
>> statement could be employed. ?Start with the connection objects in
>> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily.
>
> ? "with" is important for locks because it matters when they're
> released. ?It's not as important if release is just resource
> recovery. ?Reference counting will recover most objects when they
> go out of scope anyway.

If you're using CPython that is. The other implementations don't use
refcounting and thus don't guarantee the GC will be that timely.
So if one wants maximum portability, the `with` statement is *quite* useful.

Not to mention there are other uses for `with` besides just freeing
resources; e.g. setting a temporary decimal arithmetic context.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 18:21:27 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 23:21:27 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<debd09ca-06ce-4ef2-a977-e677a46deedf@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b81bff7$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:07:24 -0800, marwie wrote:

>> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
>> for item in x[1:]:
>> ? ? process(item)
>>
>> has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But
>> honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.
> 
> Good grief, it copies that, too? I assumed that the copying is at least
> delayed until the assignment and that x[1:] is represented by some
> wrapper that just shuffles the indices around (much like the .indices
> method that MRAB suggested).

Such complexity doesn't happen for free. It costs developer time, more 
complexity means more bugs, and more runtime overhead, especially for 
small lists. 99.9% of programs operate on small amounts of data, and 
"small" gets bigger every year.

(I was reading one of my old Uni text books the other day, and one of the 
projects was an application to index all the words in a text file. The 
author decided to use disk storage rather than in-memory data structures 
because he was hoping to read files up to 60,000 words, and considered it 
unlikely that any PCs would have enough memory to store 60,000 words!)

Unless you actually profile the code, you're as likely to be *slowing 
Python down* by such extra sophistication as you are to speed it up. 
Copying blocks of pointers is really fast on modern CPUs.

As a general rule, Python aims for simplicity of implementation rather 
than clever, but fragile, tricks.


> Maybe copying chunks of data really isn't that much of an issue as it
> used to be (and maybe I'm getting old). The application I have in mind
> has to do with symbolic computation, and expressions would be
> represented by python lists. It's too early to do any profiling (in
> fact, it's at the "deciding if python is the right language to implement
> it" stage), but it will have to handle expressions with many terms (i.e.
> long lists), and in the end taking these lists apart and putting them
> back together in different order is the only thing the code will do.


Are you likely to have expressions with a hundred or so MILLION terms?

If so, then you should start thinking about clever tricks to minimise 
copying. Otherwise, you're engaged in premature optimization, which is 
the root of all computer science evil :)



-- 
Steven


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Feb 21 18:21:38 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:21:38 -0800
Subject: with statement and standard library
In-Reply-To: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b81bbf7$0$1659$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

nobrowser wrote:
> Hi.  The with statement is certainly nifty.  The trouble is, the
> *only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
> classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
> which I almost never use.  Yet there are many, many classes in the
> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
> statement could be employed.  Start with the connection objects in
> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily. 

    "with" is important for locks because it matters when they're
released.  It's not as important if release is just resource
recovery.  Reference counting will recover most objects when they
go out of scope anyway.

    Don't get carried away just because a new feature is available.

				John Nagle


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 18:23:54 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 23:23:54 GMT
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b81c08a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:40:54 -0800, Mensanator wrote:

> Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something important like that wasn't part
> of the
> announcement. I notice no mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was
> a complete
> waste of time on my part, wasn't it?

Of course not. Now you know that Mac OS isn't officially supported, so 
you're less ignorant than you were before you went to the website.

But since Dreampie is written in Python, it shouldn't be that hard to 
have it run on Mac OS, provided you can get the GUI tool kit it requires.



-- 
Steven


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 18:32:47 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:32:47 +1300
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>	<c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7udthfFhrbU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:31:44 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> 
>>The one place where Python does have references is when accessing
>>variables in an enclosing scope (not counting module-level).  
> 
> What makes you say that?

I think Carl is talking about cells, which *are* actually objects
(in CPython at least), but they're internal details of the
interpreter, and you can't do anything useful with them from
Python code.

-- 
Greg


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 18:33:45 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 23:33:45 GMT
Subject: Use eval() safely?
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b81c2d9$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:25:11 +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I know that this issue has been discussed before, but most of the time
> using only one argument to eval().
> 
> Is it possible to use the following code, e.g. run as part of a web
> application, to break in and if so, how?
> 
> import math
> 
> def myeval(untrustedinput):
>     return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
>                 { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
> 
> Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the untrusted
> input string?
> 
> Which Python built-ins and math functions would I have to add to the
> functions dictionary to make it unsafe?

You've got the right idea, but the task is difficult.

Please read this thread:

http://tav.espians.com/a-challenge-to-break-python-security.html



-- 
Steven


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 18:42:53 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:42:53 +1300
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7udu49Fk3uU1@mid.individual.net>

lallous wrote:
> If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
> would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
> want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
> implement the cb.

I would simply not implement the method at all in the base
class. Then the C++ code can do an attribute lookup for
the method, and if it's not found, do nothing.

-- 
Greg


From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 18:47:34 2010
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:47:34 +1100
Subject: Saving the Interactive Window with PythonWin
In-Reply-To: <2485b80a-3d51-4627-95d4-eef6dc7a6445@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <2485b80a-3d51-4627-95d4-eef6dc7a6445@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B81C616.5010701@gmail.com>

On 22/02/2010 4:28 AM, vsoler wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> When I run a python script, I know that I can print the results of my
> calculations on the Interactive Window. Once the scripts ends, I can
> copy/pate these results on an OpenOffice Writer document.
>
> However, I would like to know if I can somehow add some lines to my
> script, so that it saves the Interactive Window to a text file. How
> could it be done?

The code for the interactive window is in pywin32\framework\interact.py 
- eg:

 >>> from pywin.framework import interact
 >>> interact.IsInteractiveWindowVisible()
True
 >>>

If it is visible, then something like:

 >>> len(interact.edit.currentView.GetWindowText())
189
 >>>

should get you on the right path.

>
> And, is there a way to programatically clear out the Interactive
> Window so that it only shows the last run?

Something like:

interact.edit.currentView.GetWindowText('line1\nline2\nline3')

should work - the first few lines will always be formatted using blue 
text, and the above works a little strangely when attempting it directly 
from the interactive prompt, but might still be useful.  See the source 
file I mentioned above for more clues.

HTH,

Mark
>
> Thank you for your help



From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 19:17:10 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:17:10 +1300
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
Message-ID: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>

My student is trying to build an executable version of a program that uses PyQt 
and PyQwt, on Windows XP.  She has installed: Python 2.6.1, Qt 4.5.0, PyQt 4.5, 
and PyQwt 5.2.0.  There is a module error on running the executable produced by 
py2exe.  Here is the info I got from my student:

<quote>

     Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "ABM15.pyw", line 15, in <module>
       File "PyQt4\Qwt5\__init__.pyc", line 32, in <module>
       File "PyQt4\Qwt5\Qwt.pyc", line 12, in <module>
       File "PyQt4\Qwt5\Qwt.pyc", line 10, in __load
     ImportError: No module named QtSvg


If you Google this last line, you'll find that I've posted this to a forum, but 
no one answered me. Someone has also had this problem before, although I think 
they were using PyInstaller and not py2exe. They say that its because Qwt has a 
hidden import for QtSvg. If I can turn this off, maybe it'll work, but I don't 
know how.

I have downloaded py2exe and I run the attached setup.py file in my working 
directory. It creates two directories: 'dist' and 'build'. An executable is 
created in the 'dist' directory along with other things. When I tried running 
it, it produces a log file, in which I find the error messages.

<\quote>

Perhaps someone can recognize these symptoms.

Thanks,
Gib


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 19:32:21 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:32:21 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <1266720681.3908.24.camel@durian>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>	<4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> <1266720681.3908.24.camel@durian>
Message-ID: <4B81D095.3000303@gmail.com>

On 21-02-2010 03:51, Ryan Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 13:17 +1100, Lie Ryan wrote:
>    
>> On 02/21/10 12:02, Stef Mientki wrote:
>>      
>>> On 21-02-2010 01:21, Lie Ryan wrote:
>>>        
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki
>>>>>            
>> <stef.mientki at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>      
>>>>>            
>>>>>> hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
>>>>>> exception,
>>>>>> is that possible ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>> Stef Mientki
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>> That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> I think that's what I'm after ...
>>>        
>> A much better approach is to use callbacks, the callbacks determines
>> whether to raise an exception or continue execution:
>>
>> def handler(e):
>>      if datetime.datetime.now()>= datetime.datetime(2012, 12, 21):
>>          raise Exception('The world has ended')
>>      # else: ignore, it's fine
>>
>> def add_ten_error_if_zero(args, handler):
>>      if args == 0:
>>          handler(args)
>>      return args + 10
>>
>> print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, handler)
>> print add_ten_error_if_zero(10, handler)
>> print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, lambda e: None) # always succeeds
>>      
>
> Or if you don't like having to explicitly manage callbacks, you can try
> the "withrestart" module:
>
>      http://pypi.python.org/pypi/withrestart/
>
> It tries to pinch some of the good ideas from Common Lisp's
> error-handling system.
>
>    from withrestart import *
>
>    def add_ten_error_if_zero(n):
>        #  This gives calling code the option to ignore
>        #  the error, or raise a different one.
>        with restarts(skip,raise_error):
>            if n == 0:
>                raise ValueError
>        return n + 10
>
>    # This will raise ValueError
>    print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
>
>    # This will print 10
>    with Handler(ValueError,"skip"):
>        print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
>
>    # This will exit the python interpreter
>    with Handler(ValueError,"raise_error",SystemExit):
>        print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
>
>
>
>    Cheers,
>
>        Ryan
>
>
>    
thanks Ryan (and others),

your description of withstart  was very informative,
and I think I understand why it's impossible what I want
(something like madExcept for Delphi / C / C++, see
*http://www.madshi.net/madExceptDescription.htm )
*
It are not the bugs that you can predict / expect to catch,
but the uncaught bugs.

So made some first steps,
and this seems to be sufficient for now,
if you're interested, look here,
   http://mientki.ruhosting.nl/data_www/pylab_works/pw_bug_reporter.html

cheers,
Stef



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From david at boddie.org.uk  Sun Feb 21 20:02:22 2010
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:02:22 +0100
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>

On Monday 22 February 2010 01:17, Gib Bogle wrote:

> <quote>
> 
>      Traceback (most recent call last):
>        File "ABM15.pyw", line 15, in <module>
>        File "PyQt4\Qwt5\__init__.pyc", line 32, in <module>
>        File "PyQt4\Qwt5\Qwt.pyc", line 12, in <module>
>        File "PyQt4\Qwt5\Qwt.pyc", line 10, in __load
>      ImportError: No module named QtSvg
> 
> If you Google this last line, you'll find that I've posted this to a
> forum, but no one answered me. Someone has also had this problem before,
> although I think they were using PyInstaller and not py2exe. They say that
> its because Qwt has a hidden import for QtSvg. If I can turn this off,
> maybe it'll work, but I don't know how.
> 
> I have downloaded py2exe and I run the attached setup.py file in my
> working directory. It creates two directories: 'dist' and 'build'. An
> executable is created in the 'dist' directory along with other things.
> When I tried running it, it produces a log file, in which I find the error
> messages.
> 
> <\quote>
> 
> Perhaps someone can recognize these symptoms.

Someone asked this question on the PyQt mailing list, too:

  http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2010-February/025827.html

I believe it was also asked on the #pyqt IRC channel on freenode. I think
I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
the PyQt Wiki:

  http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt

If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
this problem.

David


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 20:06:54 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:06:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Apologies -- Test message
References: <mailman.39.1266781585.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <da197b32-610a-43af-836e-4b2ea4c42edf@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 12:49?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Feb 28, 12:49 pm).

        I've not seen a message via Gmane in something like 36
hours... and
find it hard to believe this group would be that quiet...


Could it be that Gmane is giving you a taste of your own (David
Copperfield) medicine?


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 20:39:19 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:39:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>



Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
time on my part, wasn't it?"""

Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy? I visited your site a few
years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
don't hear me whining about it do you? Besides mac is always the last
to get releases (if any) everybody knows that. If you drive a porsche
you can't get all upset every time you find yourself on road with pot-
holes, your just not *that* important because you drive a porsche!
Please (in the future) leave the ranting to me, i'm better at it ;).

Thanks for the release Noam, i look forward to "test driving" it.
hehe  ;)



From philip at semanchuk.com  Sun Feb 21 21:08:08 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:08:08 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <42A48E92-3B0A-4E59-AFE9-A47E663E9DBA@semanchuk.com>


On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM, rantingrick wrote:

>
>
> Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
> important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
> mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
> time on my part, wasn't it?"""
>
> Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy? I visited your site a few
> years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
> don't hear me whining about it do you? Besides mac is always the last
> to get releases (if any) everybody knows that.


Erm...not if the developer uses a Mac.  =)




From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 21:10:48 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:40:48 +0530
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <42A48E92-3B0A-4E59-AFE9-A47E663E9DBA@semanchuk.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<42A48E92-3B0A-4E59-AFE9-A47E663E9DBA@semanchuk.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002211810w40323ca4we79d71a68ce9a863@mail.gmail.com>

Just got it working in mac. Installing dependencies took a bit though.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Philip Semanchuk <philip at semanchuk.com>wrote:

>
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
>> important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
>> mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
>> time on my part, wasn't it?"""
>>
>> Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy? I visited your site a few
>> years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
>> don't hear me whining about it do you? Besides mac is always the last
>> to get releases (if any) everybody knows that.
>>
>
>
> Erm...not if the developer uses a Mac.  =)
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 21:32:18 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:32:18 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002211810w40323ca4we79d71a68ce9a863@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<42A48E92-3B0A-4E59-AFE9-A47E663E9DBA@semanchuk.com>
	<d4ab53de1002211810w40323ca4we79d71a68ce9a863@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69B64EDC-57EB-41CF-BAF4-B2D63E82D80B@gmail.com>


On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Shashwat Anand wrote:

> Just got it working in mac. Installing dependencies took a bit though.

I used macports and it was only 2 installs:

# sudo port install py26-pygtksourceview 
# sudo port install py26-gtk2

It sure did install a lot of other stuff, like a new gcc(?) though; took almost an hour.

S



> 
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Philip Semanchuk <philip at semanchuk.com> wrote:
> 
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM, rantingrick wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
> important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
> mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
> time on my part, wasn't it?"""
> 
> Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy? I visited your site a few
> years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
> don't hear me whining about it do you? Besides mac is always the last
> to get releases (if any) everybody knows that.
> 
> 
> Erm...not if the developer uses a Mac.  =)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 21:42:40 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:42:40 +1300
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
Message-ID: <hlsqv1$g8t$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Thanks David.

> Someone asked this question on the PyQt mailing list, too:
> 
>   http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2010-February/025827.html

That's my student, Helvin.

> 
> I believe it was also asked on the #pyqt IRC channel on freenode. I think
> I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
> the PyQt Wiki:
> 
>   http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt
> 
> If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
> presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
> this problem.

I just did a quick test myself, and confirmed that this works for sip.  I'm not 
at all clear what "--includes" arguments might be needed for QtSvg (and 
libQtSvg).  I'll pass this info on to Helvin.

Gib


From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 22:44:29 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:44:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a1fb718a-a2d2-40dc-9daf-86bb08ba762d@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 7:39?pm, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
> important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
> mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
> time on my part, wasn't it?"""
>
> Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy?

Part of the job requirements of a gadfly.

> I visited your site a few
> years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
> don't hear me whining about it do you?

Did I ever claim it wasn't?

> Besides mac is always the last
> to get releases (if any) everybody knows that.

I'm not complaining about the lack of Mac support, just that
it wasn't mentioned in the announcement.

> If you drive a porsche
> you can't get all upset every time you find yourself on road with pot-
> holes, your just not *that* important because you drive a porsche!

"You're" not getting the point.

> Please (in the future) leave the ranting to me, i'm better at it ;).
>
> Thanks for the release Noam, i look forward to "test driving" it.
> hehe ?;)



From m.77ahesh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 23:39:39 2010
From: m.77ahesh at gmail.com (miss world)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:39:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
Message-ID: <671e4c8d-fe7a-42da-ab33-3729d0dcdff1@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
CHECK OUR VAST PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS INCLUDING
PROJECTS FOR FREE AT
http://presentationsandseminars.blogspot.com


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 00:15:43 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:15:43 -0800
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <4b80d744$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.27.1266729715.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b80d744$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002212115v2c03d014x110291453f53e049@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:21:47 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> For ten items, though, is it really faster to muck around with array
>> lengths than just copying the data over? Array copies are extremely fast
>> on modern processors.
>
> My mistake, he actually wants l1[10:] copied. So you might be copying a
> huge amount of data, not just ten items.
>
> Or if you prefer, replace 10 by 100000000.
>

If you need to scale that direction, it's time to install a database.

>> Programmer time and processor time being what it is, I still think my
>> answer is the correct one. No, it's not what he says he wants, but it is
>> what he needs.
>
> You missed the point that your suggestion gives radically different
> behaviour to what the OP indicated he is using. He mutates the list in
> place, you rebind the list's name. That has *very* different semantics.
>
>
> The OP may not care about the difference, but if he does require the
> first behaviour, then your solution doesn't help.
>

Correct.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Feb 22 00:45:40 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:45:40 +1300
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>

W. Martin Borgert wrote:

> def myeval(untrustedinput):
>     return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
>                 { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
> 
> Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the
> untrusted input string?

This is NOT safe as it stands. It still isn't safe even if
you put nothing in the globals dict at all.

A couple of ways someone can do nasty things to you:

# Wipe out any file writable by the calling process
eval("[c for c in (0).__class__.__bases__[0].__subclasses__() if c.__name__ == 
'file'][0]('/my/precious/file', 'w')")

# Use up large amounts of memory and CPU time
eval("100000**100000")

-- 
Greg


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb 22 01:07:05 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 06:07:05 GMT
Subject: Use eval() safely?
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:45:40 +1300, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> 
>> def myeval(untrustedinput):
>>     return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
>>                 { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
>> 
>> Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the untrusted
>> input string?
> 
> This is NOT safe as it stands. It still isn't safe even if you put
> nothing in the globals dict at all.

It's *especially* not safe if you put nothing in the globals dict, 
because Python kindly rectifies that by putting the builtins into it:

>>> eval("__builtins__.keys()", {}, {})
['IndexError', 'all', 'help', 'vars', ... 'OverflowError']


>>> eval("globals()", {}, {})
{'__builtins__': {...}}
>>>
>>> eval("globals()", {'__builtins__': None}, {})
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'globals' is not defined

So {'__builtins__': None} is safer than {}. Still not safe, exactly, but 
safer. Or at least you make the Black Hats work harder before they own 
your server :)




-- 
Steven


From norman at smash-net.org  Mon Feb 22 01:49:51 2010
From: norman at smash-net.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Norman_Rie=DF?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>
Message-ID: <4B82290F.9000508@smash-net.org>

Am 02/21/10 22:09, schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:12:50 +0100, Norman Rie?<norman at smash-net.org>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>
>    
>> Hello,
>>
>> i am trying to read a large bz2 compressed textfile using the bz2 module.
>> The file is 1717362770 lines long and 8GB large.
>> Using this code
>>
>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>>      for line in source_file:
>>      print line.strip()
>>
>>      print "Exiting"
>>      print "I used file: " + file
>>
>> the loop exits cleanly after 4311 lines in midline and the prints are
>> executed.
>> This happened on two different boxes runnig different brands of linux.
>> Is there something i miss or should be done differently?
>>
>>      
> 	Please verify your indentation! What you posted above is invalid in
> many ways.
>    
I am sorry, the indentation suffered from pasting.

This is the actual code:

source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
for line in source_file:
     print line.strip()

print "Exiting"
print "I used file: " + file





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb 22 03:02:01 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 08:02:01 GMT
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>
	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:

> This is the actual code:
> 
> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
> for line in source_file:
>      print line.strip()
> 
> print "Exiting"
> print "I used file: " + file


Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another 
application?



-- 
Steven


From norman at smash-net.org  Mon Feb 22 03:43:17 2010
From: norman at smash-net.org (=?UTF-8?B?Tm9ybWFuIFJpZcOf?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:43:17 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B8243A5.20201@smash-net.org>

Am 02/22/10 09:02, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:
>
>    
>> This is the actual code:
>>
>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>> for line in source_file:
>>       print line.strip()
>>
>> print "Exiting"
>> print "I used file: " + file
>>      
>
> Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another
> application?
>
>
>
>    

Yes, bzcat is running through the file fine. And piping bzcat output 
into the python script reading stdin works fine, too.


From jasminsweety145 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 05:01:18 2010
From: jasminsweety145 at gmail.com (jasmin sweety)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: %%% Anuksha navel & smootched by the Hero V----? %%%
Message-ID: <c2a93b82-cd73-4c1b-bff0-7a5f41c96eb2@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

%%% Anuksha navel & smootched by the Hero V----? %%%

http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 05:48:55 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:48:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 1:54?am, Tim Roberts <t... at probo.com> wrote:
> DANNY <danijel.gv... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
> >network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
> >use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
> >couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.
>
> If you want to manipulate the frames (as bitmaps), then you have little
> choice but to decode the MPEG as you receive it, manipulate the bitmaps,
> and re-encode it back to MPEG.
>
> That's going to take a fair amount of time...
> --
> Tim Roberts, t... at probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

Yes, well beside bieng time-consuming, that is also inappropriate for
me,
because I want to have clip that would be streamed across the network
and
have the same GoP on the client side as the original-because I want to
see
what is the effect of errors on different GoP sizes. I would
manipuleta the
received clip just in the way that (if there are too many errors) I
would
stop displaying untill the next I frame.....I cant find a way to do
that....is there a way?


From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 05:54:01 2010
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:54:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
References: <6a8e506c-63df-482b-a39d-148e6217ba2c@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f1a7338c-0460-452b-8443-2e772943313f@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 2:43 pm, John Pinner <funth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> It appears that, in trying to cut down spm, somone chahnged a DNS
> entry and screwed it up : it shouldbe back before long.

 yep.  i've now got access to the web interface for the dns whois
records.  they got poo'd up (only one entry) and then the person who
made the changes was ill for a couple of days.

 i needed to change the DNS server to one that i control (rather than
a "dumb" get-free-hosting-for-?1.99-a-month provider so that i could
add http://wiki.pyjs.org (using a pyjamas-based wiki of course), move
away from sourceforge VHOSTS, and generally set things up a little bit
better.

 l.


From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 05:58:17 2010
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:58:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: look at the google code
References: <cdd9c65f-de38-43b8-89e1-f2a50b1f3a4c@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <711cb713-4b4a-47f6-8922-ce1ada7d64e6@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 10:41 am, Allison Vollmann <allisonv... at yahoo.com.br>
wrote:
> http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/
>
> Last update from yesterday, is the same project?

 only the tarballs are maintained on there, and the wiki and the issue
tracker.  we couldn't get control of that site for quite some time so
started using sourceforget for svn, but the issue tracker on
sourceforget is truly dreadful.

 basically there's bits of pyjamas splattered all over the place in a
pick-n-mix setup :)  mostly this is for the convenience of the key
developers - welcome to free software, where the developers do what
they like because it makes _their_ lives easier...

 l.


From karthigacool at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 08:16:42 2010
From: karthigacool at gmail.com (karthiga madhan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:16:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: insurance, life insurance, home insurance and their benefits 
	www.autoinsurance-2010.blogspot.com
Message-ID: <28263151-ebd7-4aa3-a79a-e741ee3bdfa5@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

insurance, life insurance, home insurance and their benefits
www.autoinsurance-2010.blogspot.com


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 08:29:55 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:29:55 +1100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <mailman.56.1266828199.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.56.1266828199.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/22/10 19:43, Norman Rie? wrote:
> Am 02/22/10 09:02, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> This is the actual code:
>>>
>>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>>> for line in source_file:
>>>       print line.strip()
>>>
>>> print "Exiting"
>>> print "I used file: " + file
>>>      
>>
>> Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another
>> application?
>>
>>
>>
>>    
> 
> Yes, bzcat is running through the file fine. And piping bzcat output
> into the python script reading stdin works fine, too.

test with using something other than bzcat; bzcat does certain things
differently because of the way it works (a cat for bzipped file). Try
using plain "bunzip2 filename.bz2"


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 22 08:44:02 2010
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 13:44:02 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ky8wte.705@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
>>>> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
>>>> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
>>>> language spec.
>>>>
>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
>>>> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
>>>> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
>>>> might not even make sense.
>>>>
>>>> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
>>>> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
>>>> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
>>>> integer, in IronPython it's not.
>>>>
>>> You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
>>> constructed definition above
>>
>> No, it's not bizarre, it's the standard general language independent
>> definition.
>>
>*The* standard general language independent definition? As defined
>where? The id() value doesn't "correspond to the pointer value", it
>corresponds to the object. Why you see the need for this indirection
>remains a mystery.

No it doesn't. If an object is garbage collected, the id() might be
recycled. At that time the id() corresponds to quite a different
object. OTOH if you kill an object in Python it is gone forever.
Of course there is a standard computer science idea of what a pointer is.
If you admit the pointer terminology, you can understand
that a pointer value is all what id() can tell us.

You seem to subsconsciously substitute "assembler language address"
for it. When someone says: "pointers are bad" what really meant is
"manipulating assembler language addresses in a high level language
is bad". (Everybody agrees, but sometimes you must use e.g. c
as sort of assembler.)
That is not the kind of pointers we're talking about here.

(I once studied algol 68, and never got confused about these
subjects anymore, recommended.)

>
>regards
> Steve
>--
>

Groetjes Albert


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From hidura at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 09:03:32 2010
From: hidura at gmail.com (hidura at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:03:32 +0000
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
In-Reply-To: <4bbf7fb21002041810xc9bf899v1827ff83abb67c44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001485e7c7b6fad3a9048030e5e1@google.com>

For finnished the subject i resolve the problem using the PEP-328, i was  
using the old kind of imports :s

On Feb 4, 2010 10:10pm, Hidura <hidura at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks i middle resolve the problem, and i going to read the PEP-366 i've  
> been read the 328, i will kept informed of the progresses.

> Thanks again for the help


> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Ben Finney ben+python at benfinney.id.au>  
> wrote:

> "Gabriel Genellina" gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:



> > If you directly run a script from inside a package, Python does not

> > know that it belongs to a package, and treats it as a simple, lonely

> > script. In that case, relative imports won't work.




> Which I consider to be a bug. Fortunately, it's already addressed in PEP

> 366 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0366/>. Unfortunately, it

> involves more hackish boilerplate at the top of the program, and is only

> available in Python 2.6+.



> --

> \ ?Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does |

> `\ knowledge.? ?Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 |

> _o__) |

> Ben Finney


> --

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list






> --
> Hidura

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From icanbob at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 09:40:15 2010
From: icanbob at gmail.com (bobicanprogram)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:40:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: Python-SIMPL v2.0.0 released
Message-ID: <964d1dcb-46a9-40a5-ab41-199fd1e364a7@t21g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

The SIMPL project (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl) aims to bring the
Send/Receive/Reply messaging (first popularized by QNX) to the open
source Linux world.   Since its inception more that 10 years ago,  the
SIMPL toolkit has grown steadily in functionality.   Through the use
of surrogates,  SIMPL modules can be dispersed seamlessly across
networks including heterogeneous networks with only one Linux node.
SIMPL modules can also be written in several programming languages
including Python, C, C++, JAVA and Tcl/Tk.   Modules written in
different languages can be mixed in a SIMPL appliction.

Python-SIMPL has been used to connect Python UIs to C data acquisition/
computation backends.   While this is an example of a common use for
the toolkit,  it is by no means the only place it could be useful.
Python to Python,  Python to JAVA as well as Python to C are all
seamlessly possible in both local or distributed applications.  Python-
SIMPL allows a software application to be broken up into modules where
the language choices for each module can be optimized.

The Python-SIMPL interface library has undergone a fundamental
revision with the v2.0.0 release. The underlying shared library which
wraps the SIMPL toolkit as a Python extension was cleaned up
considerably.   In addition two new Python wrappers were created to
expose this SIMPL toolkit in more object oriented fashion to the
Python developer.

The simplest starting point for exploring the Python-SIMPL toolkit is
an online "hello world" level tutorial at:

http://www.icanprogram.com/06py/lesson1/lesson1.html

The Python-SIMPL toolkit can be downloaded in source form at:

http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/python.self.htm

or in precompiled binary (i386) form at:

http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/pythonbin.self.html

We at the SIMPL project welcome participants at all levels of
expertise.   If you are interested do not hesitate to contact us.

bob


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb 22 10:22:02 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:22:02 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
Message-ID: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It inspects the 
contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it gave the results 
for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A, and fired up the 
program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the file. I looked at 
properties for the B program, and it was clearly pointing to folder A.

Anyone have this happen to them?

Another anomaly. I have the files track.py and trackstudy.py in the same 
folder along with 100 or so other py and txt data files. When I did a 
search from the folder window in the upper right corner, search only 
found one of the two. I called HP tech support about it, and they could 
see it for themselves via remote control. They had no idea, but agreed 
to  contact MS. In this case, I noted that this search box has some sort 
of filter associated with it. Possibly, in my early stages of learning 
to navigate in Win7, I accidentally set the filter.

Comments?


From norman at smash-net.org  Mon Feb 22 10:38:24 2010
From: norman at smash-net.org (=?UTF-8?B?Tm9ybWFuIFJpZcOf?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:38:24 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.56.1266828199.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B82A4F0.3010403@smash-net.org>

Am 02/22/10 14:29, schrieb Lie Ryan:
> On 02/22/10 19:43, Norman Rie? wrote:
>    
>> Am 02/22/10 09:02, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>>      
>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> This is the actual code:
>>>>
>>>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>>>> for line in source_file:
>>>>        print line.strip()
>>>>
>>>> print "Exiting"
>>>> print "I used file: " + file
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another
>>> application?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> Yes, bzcat is running through the file fine. And piping bzcat output
>> into the python script reading stdin works fine, too.
>>      
> test with using something other than bzcat; bzcat does certain things
> differently because of the way it works (a cat for bzipped file). Try
> using plain "bunzip2 filename.bz2"
>    

Did that too. Works as expected.


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 10:43:07 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:43:07 +0100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002220743j4d00a7cdt828122a67f016025@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:22 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It inspects the
> contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it gave the results for
> A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A, and fired up the program in
> B. Win7 went into search mode for the file. I looked at properties for the B
> program, and it was clearly pointing to folder A.
>
> Anyone have this happen to them?
>
> Another anomaly. I have the files track.py and trackstudy.py in the same
> folder along with 100 or so other py and txt data files. When I did a search
> from the folder window in the upper right corner, search only found one of
> the two. I called HP tech support about it, and they could see it for
> themselves via remote control. They had no idea, but agreed to ?contact MS.
> In this case, I noted that this search box has some sort of filter
> associated with it. Possibly, in my early stages of learning to navigate in
> Win7, I accidentally set the filter.
>
> Comments?

I can't really see the python related problem here...


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 11:01:34 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:01:34 +0000
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B82AA5E.10407@mrabarnett.plus.com>

W. eWatson wrote:
> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It inspects the 
> contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it gave the results 
> for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A, and fired up the 
> program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the file. I looked at 
> properties for the B program, and it was clearly pointing to folder A.
> 
Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.

> Anyone have this happen to them?
> 
> Another anomaly. I have the files track.py and trackstudy.py in the same 
> folder along with 100 or so other py and txt data files. When I did a 
> search from the folder window in the upper right corner, search only 
> found one of the two. I called HP tech support about it, and they could 
> see it for themselves via remote control. They had no idea, but agreed 
> to  contact MS. In this case, I noted that this search box has some sort 
> of filter associated with it. Possibly, in my early stages of learning 
> to navigate in Win7, I accidentally set the filter.
> 
> Comments?

Not Python-related.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb 22 11:29:47 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-22, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B.

[tail of various windows breakages elided]

> Comments?

Switch to Linux?

Or at least install Cygwin?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Maybe I should have
                                  at               asked for my Neutron Bomb
                               visi.com            in PAISLEY --


From mail at hellmutweber.de  Mon Feb 22 11:32:11 2010
From: mail at hellmutweber.de (Hellmut Weber)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:11 +0100
Subject: A tool for find dependencies relationships behind Python projects
In-Reply-To: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B82B18B.3020707@hellmutweber.de>

Hi Victor,
I would be intereseted to use your tool ;-)

My system is Sabayon-5.1 on Lenovo T61.
Trying for the first time easy_install I get the following error:

====================

root at sylvester ~ # easy_install gluttony
Searching for gluttony
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/gluttony/
Reading http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
Best match: Gluttony 0.3 
 

Downloading 
http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/G/Gluttony/Gluttony-0.3.zip#md5=c7774d4fcc0402097f90dc81186de465 

Processing Gluttony-0.3.zip
Running Gluttony-0.3/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir 
/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/egg-dist-tmp-CJI_LD
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/bin/easy_install", line 9, in <module>
     load_entry_point('distribute==0.6.8', 'console_scripts', 
'easy_install')()
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 1708, in main
     with_ei_usage(lambda:
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 1696, in with_ei_usage
     return f()
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 1712, in <lambda>
     distclass=DistributionWithoutHelpCommands, **kw
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/core.py", line 152, in setup
     dist.run_commands()
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 975, in run_commands
     self.run_command(cmd)
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 995, in run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 236, in run
     self.easy_install(spec, not self.no_deps)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 471, in easy_install
     return self.install_item(spec, dist.location, tmpdir, deps)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 501, in install_item
     dists = self.install_eggs(spec, download, tmpdir)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 680, in install_eggs
     return self.build_and_install(setup_script, setup_base)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 957, in build_and_install
     self.run_setup(setup_script, setup_base, args)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 946, in run_setup
     run_setup(setup_script, args)
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 
29, in run_setup
     lambda: execfile(
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 
70, in run
     return func()
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 
31, in <lambda>
     {'__file__':setup_script, '__name__':'__main__'}
   File "setup.py", line 9, in <module>
   File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/__init__.py", 
line 1, in <module>
     #
   File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/gluttony.py", 
line 13, in <module>
ImportError: No module named pip.log
root at sylvester ~ #

====================

I emerged app-misc/pip, but that didn't help, the error remains the same

What is missing?

Any help appreciated

Best regards

Hellmut


Am 19.02.2010 17:16, schrieb Victor Lin:
> Hi,
>
> I just wrote a tool for drawing dependencies relationships diagram of
> Python project on Pypi.  Here is the home page of the tool:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
>
> Some examples:
> Sprox:
> http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/sprox_dot.png
>
> TurboGears2:
> http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/tg2_dot.png
>
> Hope this could be helpful :P
>
> Regards.
> Victor Lin.

-- 
Dr. Hellmut Weber         mail at hellmutweber.de
Degenfeldstra?e 2         tel   +49-89-3081172
D-80803 M?nchen-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq



From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:32:36 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:32:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
Message-ID: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
an ordered dict from an unordered list?

unorderedDict = {}
for thing in unorderedList:
	if thing.id in unorderedDict:
		UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
	else:
		CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])

orderedDict = OrderedDict()
for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
	orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:49:42 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:19:42 +0530
Subject: A tool for find dependencies relationships behind Python projects
In-Reply-To: <4B82B18B.3020707@hellmutweber.de>
References: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4B82B18B.3020707@hellmutweber.de>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002220849i5a39443ex82d1d207372b3d3b@mail.gmail.com>

Same issue here, easy_install fails
here is traceback,

Shashwat-Anands-MacBook-Pro:Downloads l0nwlf$ easy_install gluttony
Searching for gluttony
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/gluttony/
Reading http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
Best match: Gluttony 0.3
Downloading
http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/G/Gluttony/Gluttony-0.3.zip#md5=c7774d4fcc0402097f90dc81186de465
Processing Gluttony-0.3.zip
Running Gluttony-0.3/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir
/var/folders/Hm/Hmz8Y9rDEXqrbr8IUNiNiU+++TI/-Tmp-/easy_install-zlrBGJ/Gluttony-0.3/egg-dist-tmp-N3AofQ
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/easy_install-2.6", line 10, in <module>
    load_entry_point('setuptools==0.6c9', 'console_scripts',
'easy_install')()
  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 1671, in main

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 1659, in with_ei_usage

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 1675, in <lambda>

  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/distutils/core.py",
line 152, in setup
    dist.run_commands()
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/distutils/dist.py",
line 975, in run_commands
    self.run_command(cmd)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/distutils/dist.py",
line 995, in run_command
    cmd_obj.run()
  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 211, in run

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 446, in easy_install

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 476, in install_item

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 655, in install_eggs

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 930, in build_and_install

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 919, in run_setup

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/sandbox.py",
line 27, in run_setup
  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/sandbox.py",
line 63, in run
  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/sandbox.py",
line 29, in <lambda>
  File "setup.py", line 9, in <module>
  File
"/var/folders/Hm/Hmz8Y9rDEXqrbr8IUNiNiU+++TI/-Tmp-/easy_install-zlrBGJ/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/__init__.py",
line 1, in <module>
  File
"/var/folders/Hm/Hmz8Y9rDEXqrbr8IUNiNiU+++TI/-Tmp-/easy_install-zlrBGJ/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/gluttony.py",
line 13, in <module>
ImportError: No module named pip.log


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Hellmut Weber <mail at hellmutweber.de>wrote:

> Hi Victor,
> I would be intereseted to use your tool ;-)
>
> My system is Sabayon-5.1 on Lenovo T61.
> Trying for the first time easy_install I get the following error:
>
> ====================
>
> root at sylvester ~ # easy_install gluttony
> Searching for gluttony
> Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/gluttony/
> Reading http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
> Best match: Gluttony 0.3
>
> Downloading
> http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/G/Gluttony/Gluttony-0.3.zip#md5=c7774d4fcc0402097f90dc81186de465
> Processing Gluttony-0.3.zip
> Running Gluttony-0.3/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir
> /tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/egg-dist-tmp-CJI_LD
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/bin/easy_install", line 9, in <module>
>    load_entry_point('distribute==0.6.8', 'console_scripts',
> 'easy_install')()
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1708, in main
>    with_ei_usage(lambda:
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1696, in with_ei_usage
>    return f()
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1712, in <lambda>
>    distclass=DistributionWithoutHelpCommands, **kw
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/core.py", line 152, in setup
>    dist.run_commands()
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 975, in run_commands
>    self.run_command(cmd)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 995, in run_command
>    cmd_obj.run()
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 236, in run
>    self.easy_install(spec, not self.no_deps)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 471, in easy_install
>    return self.install_item(spec, dist.location, tmpdir, deps)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 501, in install_item
>    dists = self.install_eggs(spec, download, tmpdir)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 680, in install_eggs
>    return self.build_and_install(setup_script, setup_base)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 957, in build_and_install
>    self.run_setup(setup_script, setup_base, args)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 946, in run_setup
>    run_setup(setup_script, args)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 29,
> in run_setup
>    lambda: execfile(
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 70,
> in run
>    return func()
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 31,
> in <lambda>
>    {'__file__':setup_script, '__name__':'__main__'}
>  File "setup.py", line 9, in <module>
>  File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/__init__.py", line 1,
> in <module>
>    #
>  File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/gluttony.py", line
> 13, in <module>
> ImportError: No module named pip.log
> root at sylvester ~ #
>
> ====================
>
> I emerged app-misc/pip, but that didn't help, the error remains the same
>
> What is missing?
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> Best regards
>
> Hellmut
>
>
> Am 19.02.2010 17:16, schrieb Victor Lin:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> I just wrote a tool for drawing dependencies relationships diagram of
>> Python project on Pypi.  Here is the home page of the tool:
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
>>
>> Some examples:
>> Sprox:
>> http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/sprox_dot.png
>>
>> TurboGears2:
>> http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/tg2_dot.png
>>
>> Hope this could be helpful :P
>>
>> Regards.
>> Victor Lin.
>>
>
> --
> Dr. Hellmut Weber         mail at hellmutweber.de
> Degenfeldstra?e 2         tel   +49-89-3081172
> D-80803 M?nchen-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
> please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:51:52 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:21:52 +0530
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002220851r25bc3e39v6b28a359ad88a02e@mail.gmail.com>

Programming is most fruiful in *nix environment.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>wrote:

> On 2010-02-22, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>
> > Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B.
>
> [tail of various windows breakages elided]
>
> > Comments?
>
> Switch to Linux?
>
> Or at least install Cygwin?
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Maybe I should have
>                                  at               asked for my Neutron Bomb
>                               visi.com            in PAISLEY --
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From kiraank at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:53:06 2010
From: kiraank at gmail.com (KIRAN)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Files required for porting python
Message-ID: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi ALL,

I am newbie to python and wanted to port python on to some RTOS. The
RTOS I am trying to port python is not posix compliant. First, I
decided to port python on to windows and later I will port the same to
my target system. [ This is just to minimize the effort being put
port, debug and to stabilize]. I downloaded 2.6.1 python code and
started looking through the code. I see lot of code with several
files. I am not sure which code I should start with. Any help / link
regarding this is appreciated.

Thanks,
Kiran


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:55:55 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:25:55 +0530
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002220855w218e7702h7a62753b2a53c6b8@mail.gmail.com>

OrderedDict is a class in collection module in python 2.7a3+. Perhaps you
can use it from there.

>>> dir(collections)
['Callable', 'Container', 'Counter', 'Hashable', 'ItemsView', 'Iterable',
'Iterator', 'KeysView', 'Mapping', 'MappingView', 'MutableMapping',
'MutableSequence', 'MutableSet', 'OrderedDict', 'Sequence', 'Set', 'Sized',
'ValuesView', '_Link', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__',
'__name__', '__package__', '_abcoll', '_chain', '_eq', '_heapq', '_ifilter',
'_imap', '_iskeyword', '_itemgetter', '_proxy', '_repeat', '_starmap',
'_sys', 'defaultdict', 'deque', 'namedtuple']

~l0nwlf

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Bryan <bryanvick at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> unorderedDict = {}
> for thing in unorderedList:
>        if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>                UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>        else:
>                CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>        orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:00:12 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:12 +0530
Subject: Files required for porting python
In-Reply-To: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002220900wfea66e4l43cc46c32a7f987b@mail.gmail.com>

what do you exactly mean by "port python on to windows" ? Are you talking
about your application or python itself :-/

~l0nwlf

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, KIRAN <kiraank at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi ALL,
>
> I am newbie to python and wanted to port python on to some RTOS. The
> RTOS I am trying to port python is not posix compliant. First, I
> decided to port python on to windows and later I will port the same to
> my target system. [ This is just to minimize the effort being put
> port, debug and to stabilize]. I downloaded 2.6.1 python code and
> started looking through the code. I see lot of code with several
> files. I am not sure which code I should start with. Any help / link
> regarding this is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kiran
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Mon Feb 22 12:08:08 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:08:08 -0600
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eae285401002220908t7795659fr96e8776d21871158@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Bryan <bryanvick at gmail.com> wrote:

> unorderedDict = {}
> for thing in unorderedList:
>        if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>                UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>        else:
>                CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>        orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
>

It's not entirely clear what UpdateExistingValue and CreateNewValue do.
However, it looks like you are trying to create a dictionary where the keys
are sorted.  Is that right?

If so, you could use the sorteddict type from my blist package, which is
similar to an OrderDict except it efficiently keeps the keys in sorted order
instead of insertion order.  For example:

>>> from blist import sorteddict
>>> my_dict = sorteddict({1: 'a', 6: 'b', -5: 'c'})
>>> my_dict.keys()
[-5, 1, 6]
>>> my_dict[2] = 'd'
>>> my_dict.keys()
[-5, 1, 2, 6]

It's available here:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/blist/
--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com>
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From alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 22 12:10:38 2010
From: alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com (Alex Quinn)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:10:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?
Message-ID: <973565.53691.qm@web38208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Is there a way to have some kind of database (i.e. sqlite3, bsddb, dbm, etc.) that works out of the box on any Win/Linux/Mac machine with Python 2.6+ or 3.x? It's okay if the file format is different between machines, but I want my script to work without having to install anything.

Problems with current modules:

* Shelve used to do this.  Unfortunately, since bsddb was deprecated/removed from the standard distro and Windows doesn't have dbm or gdbm, the only remaining option on Windows is dumbdbm, which is discouraged in the docs.

* Sqlite3 should fill the void now.  However, in my experience, nearly every Linux Python install I encounter has a broken sqlite3 module ("ImportError: No module named _sqlite3"). It's a well-documented issue, but it the solution generally requires root access, which I don't have on these servers.

Potential solutions:

* Could I somehow bundle with my project the _sqlite3.so file and/or whatever else it needs? Or is there an alternate sqlite3 module I could use as a fallback that would just interface with the sqlite3 executable on the machine (i.e. /usr/local/bin/sqlite3)?

* Is there a way to drop bsddb into my project so it works out of the gate (no install) on either Linux, Windows, or Mac?

If you have any ideas, I'd be most appreciative.  My objective here is just to find a portable and reliable solution that I can use for small projects.

Thanks,
Alex
--
http://alexquinn.org



      


From kiraank at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:11:12 2010
From: kiraank at gmail.com (Kiran K)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:12 +0530
Subject: Files required for porting python
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002220900wfea66e4l43cc46c32a7f987b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002220900wfea66e4l43cc46c32a7f987b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <775a6b621002220911m29664303xda13ce88f04072cb@mail.gmail.com>

I will try to provide the API's on windows that my RTOS provides ex. If my
RTOS has "fosCreateSemaphore" to create a semaphore I will implement the
same API [ same function prototype] on windows using win32 CreateSemaphore.
Similarly I will write a wrapper functions for accesing file system, task
manegement, memory management. With this abstraction layer, I am simulating
my target RTOS on windows [ I am ignoring realtime requirement on windows, I
will worry about it once I am done with python porting]. Hope you understand
the way I am going.

Thanks,
Kiran


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Shashwat Anand
<anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> what do you exactly mean by "port python on to windows" ? Are you talking
> about your application or python itself :-/
>
> ~l0nwlf
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, KIRAN <kiraank at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi ALL,
>>
>> I am newbie to python and wanted to port python on to some RTOS. The
>> RTOS I am trying to port python is not posix compliant. First, I
>> decided to port python on to windows and later I will port the same to
>> my target system. [ This is just to minimize the effort being put
>> port, debug and to stabilize]. I downloaded 2.6.1 python code and
>> started looking through the code. I see lot of code with several
>> files. I am not sure which code I should start with. Any help / link
>> regarding this is appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kiran
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb 22 12:17:14 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:17:14 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.56.1266828199.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlue6q$s4t$1@dough.gmane.org>

Lie Ryan, 22.02.2010 14:29:
> On 02/22/10 19:43, Norman Rie? wrote:
>> Am 02/22/10 09:02, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> This is the actual code:
>>>>
>>>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>>>> for line in source_file:
>>>>       print line.strip()
>>>>
>>>> print "Exiting"
>>>> print "I used file: " + file
>>>>      
>>> Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another
>>> application?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>> Yes, bzcat is running through the file fine. And piping bzcat output
>> into the python script reading stdin works fine, too.
> 
> test with using something other than bzcat; bzcat does certain things
> differently because of the way it works (a cat for bzipped file). Try
> using plain "bunzip2 filename.bz2"

Please note that all of this has already been suggested on the python-tutor
list.

Stefan



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 12:19:14 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:19:14 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B82BC92.8070304@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Bryan wrote:
> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
> 
Why are you building a dict from a list and then an ordered dict from
that? Just build the ordered dict from the list, because it's behaves
like a dict, except for remembering the order in which the keys were
added.


From barryjogorman at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:26:18 2010
From: barryjogorman at gmail.com (barryjogorman)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
Message-ID: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

HAVE THE FOLLOWING VERY BASIC PROGRAM:

class Person:
    def _init_(self,name, job=None, pay=0):
        self.name=name
        self.job=job
        self.pay=pay

bob = Person('Bob Smith')
sue = Person('Sue Jones', job='dev', pay = 100000)
print(bob.name, bob.pay)
print(sue.name, sue.pay)

I am getting the following error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/Python31/person1.py", line 7, in <module>
    bob = Person('Bob Smith')
TypeError: object.__new__() takes no parameters



All suggestions gratefully received.



From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:28:22 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:28:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.70.1266859152.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:19?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
> > I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary. ?From
> > that dict, I create an ordered dict. ?I can't think of a way to build
> > the ordered dict while going through the original loop. ?Is there a
> > way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> > ordered dict? ?Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> > unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> > the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> > become faster. ?Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> > an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> Why are you building a dict from a list and then an ordered dict from
> that? Just build the ordered dict from the list, because it's behaves
> like a dict, except for remembering the order in which the keys were
> added.

Could you write some pseudo-code for that?  I'm not sure how I would
add the items to the OrderedDict while looping through the list.
Wouldn't the list need to be sorted first (which in this case isn't
practical)?





From editor at pythonrag.org  Mon Feb 22 12:33:55 2010
From: editor at pythonrag.org (Bernard Czenkusz)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:33:55 -0600
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
References: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <NJWdnUi7LdyeXR_WnZ2dnUVZ7qNi4p2d@brightview.co.uk>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:26:18 -0800, barryjogorman wrote:

> HAVE THE FOLLOWING VERY BASIC PROGRAM:
> 
> class Person:
>     def _init_(self,name, job=None, pay=0):
>         self.name=name
>         self.job=job
>         self.pay=pay
> 
> bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> sue = Person('Sue Jones', job='dev', pay = 100000) print(bob.name,
> bob.pay)
> print(sue.name, sue.pay)
> 
> I am getting the following error message:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Python31/person1.py", line 7, in <module>
>     bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> TypeError: object.__new__() takes no parameters
> 
> 
> 
> All suggestions gratefully received.

The __init__ method starts and ends with two underscores,
not one underscore _init_ as you have used.


From agoretoy at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:43:03 2010
From: agoretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:43:03 -0600
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
In-Reply-To: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002220943t6cf40df3i2d4eeae8fd1e3fb7@mail.gmail.com>

you need to define init with two underscores, I've made that mistake myself
long long time ago :)

def __init__

not def _init_

-Alex Goretoy
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From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb 22 12:45:04 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:45:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com> <hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2282.1265790273.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<ky98c0.frh@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <hlufr0$qam$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-22, Albert van der Horst <albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> In article <87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a at f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,

>>Gabriel Genellina reports that time.clock() uses Windows'
>>QueryPerformanceCounter() API, which has much higher resolution
>>than the task switcher's 15ms.  QueryPerformanceCounter's
>>resolution is hardware-dependent; using the Win API, and a
>>little test program, I get this value on my machine: Frequency
>>is 3579545 ticks/sec Resolution is 0.279365114840015
>>microsecond/tick
>
> In Forth we add a small machine code routine that executes the
> RDTSC instruction. (I used that to play music on a couple of
> mechanical instruments in real time.) It just counts the (3
> Ghz) clock cycles in a 64 bit timer.

That's what clock.clock() does, except that it converts it into
a floating point value in seconds.

> Subtract two samples and you're done.

Nope.  It would fail the same way that clock.clock() does on a
multi-core Windows machine.

> Is there a mechanism in Python to do something similar,
> embedded assembler or something?

You'd get the same results as using clock.clock().  Just
different format/units.

> (This is not a general solution, but at least it would work on
> Windows, that is i86 only.)

It fails on Windows for the same reason that clock.clock()
fails: the counters read by the RDTSC instruction are not
synchronized between the different cores.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm a nuclear
                                  at               submarine under the
                               visi.com            polar ice cap and I need
                                                   a Kleenex!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 12:45:50 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:45:50 +0000
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
In-Reply-To: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B82C2CE.4050008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

barryjogorman wrote:
> HAVE THE FOLLOWING VERY BASIC PROGRAM:
> 
> class Person:
>     def _init_(self,name, job=None, pay=0):
>         self.name=name
>         self.job=job
>         self.pay=pay
> 
> bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> sue = Person('Sue Jones', job='dev', pay = 100000)
> print(bob.name, bob.pay)
> print(sue.name, sue.pay)
> 
> I am getting the following error message:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Python31/person1.py", line 7, in <module>
>     bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> TypeError: object.__new__() takes no parameters
> 
> 
> 
> All suggestions gratefully received.
> 
The special methods use double underscores, not single underscores, eg
__init__ not _init_.


From barryjogorman at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:46:52 2010
From: barryjogorman at gmail.com (barryjogorman)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:46:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
References: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<NJWdnUi7LdyeXR_WnZ2dnUVZ7qNi4p2d@brightview.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0a181737-9c67-45ae-bcf8-22d3e4690cf6@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 5:33?pm, Bernard Czenkusz <edi... at pythonrag.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:26:18 -0800, barryjogorman wrote:
> >HAVE THE FOLLOWING VERY BASIC PROGRAM:
>
> >class Person:
> > ? ?def _init_(self,name, job=None, pay=0):
> > ? ? ? ?self.name=name
> > ? ? ? ?self.job=job
> > ? ? ? ?self.pay=pay
>
> >bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> >sue = Person('Sue Jones', job='dev', pay = 100000) print(bob.name,
> >bob.pay)
> >print(sue.name, sue.pay)
>
> >I am getting the following error message:
>
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ?File "C:/Python31/person1.py", line 7, in <module>
> > ? ?bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> >TypeError: object.__new__() takes no parameters
>
> >All suggestions gratefully received.
>
> The __init__ method starts and ends with two underscores,not one underscore _init_ as you have used.

thanks


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 22 12:52:48 2010
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 17:52:48 GMT
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com> <hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2282.1265790273.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ky98c0.frh@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

In article <87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a at f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Paul McGuire  <ptmcg at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>On Feb 10, 2:24=A0am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:45:38 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
>> <inva... at invalid.invalid> declaimed the following in
>> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>> > Doesn't work. =A0datetime.datetime.now has granularity of
>> > 15-16ms.
>>
>> > Intervals much less that that often come back with a delta of
>> > 0. =A0A delay of 20ms produces a delta of either 15-16ms or
>> > 31-32ms
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WinXP uses an ~15ms time quantum for task switching. Whic=
>h defines
>> the step rate of the wall clock output...
>>
>> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/35546579/the-quantum-was-n...h=
>ttp://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/32823760/how-do-you-set-ti...
>>
>> http://www.lochan.org/2005/keith-cl/useful/win32time.html
>> --
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Wulfraed =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Dennis Lee Bieber =A0 =A0 =A0 =
>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 KD6MOG
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 wlfr... at ix.netcom.com =A0 =A0 HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.=
>com/
>
>Gabriel Genellina reports that time.clock() uses Windows'
>QueryPerformanceCounter() API, which has much higher resolution than
>the task switcher's 15ms.  QueryPerformanceCounter's resolution is
>hardware-dependent; using the Win API, and a little test program, I
>get this value on my machine:
>Frequency is 3579545 ticks/sec
>Resolution is 0.279365114840015 microsecond/tick

In Forth we add a small machine code routine that executes the
RDTSC instruction. (I used that to play music on a couple of
mechanical instruments in real time.)
It just counts the (3 Ghz) clock cycles in a 64 bit timer.
Subtract two samples and you're done.

Is there a mechanism in Python to do something similar,
embedded assembler or something?

(This is not a general solution, but at least it would work on
Windows, that is i86 only.)

>
>-- Paul


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 22 13:01:44 2010
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 18:01:44 GMT
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Terrence Cole  <terrence at zettabytestorage.com> wrote:
>Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
>Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
>[GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1

Python 4.0
Warning: misleading blank space, expected:
  - 0.1**0.1

>-0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
>(0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
>-0.7943282347242815
>
>Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
>variable version return a complex?
>
>Cheers,
>Terrence
>


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 13:04:20 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:04:20 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.70.1266859152.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B82C724.7030202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Bryan wrote:
> On Feb 22, 9:19 am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> Bryan wrote:
>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>> Why are you building a dict from a list and then an ordered dict from
>> that? Just build the ordered dict from the list, because it's behaves
>> like a dict, except for remembering the order in which the keys were
>> added.
> 
> Could you write some pseudo-code for that?  I'm not sure how I would
> add the items to the OrderedDict while looping through the list.
> Wouldn't the list need to be sorted first (which in this case isn't
> practical)?
> 
ordered != sorted.

If you want the ordered dict to be sorted by key then build a dict first
and then create the ordered dict from the sorted dict. I think the
quickest way to build the sorted dict is:

     orderedDict = OrderedDict(sorted(unorderedDict.items()))

although I haven't tried 'sorteddict' (see Daniel Stutzbach's post).


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 13:09:31 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:09:31 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2r5odcfc4.fsf@googlemail.com>

Bryan <bryanvick at gmail.com> writes:

> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> unorderedDict = {}
> for thing in unorderedList:
> 	if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> 		UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> 	else:
> 		CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> 	orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)

Why don't you sort your unorderedList first then simply create your
orderedDict?

To me your problem is stated in too vague terms anyway and the code you
post could not really work as unorderedDict is bound to remain empty
whatever the values of all the other names.

At any rate, why do you need an ordered dictionary?  It seems suspect to
me as you sort the keys before inserting the items.

-- 
Arnaud


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Feb 22 13:15:38 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:38 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.70.1266859152.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hluhjq$a60$1@dough.gmane.org>

Bryan wrote:
> On Feb 22, 9:19 am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> Bryan wrote:
>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>> Why are you building a dict from a list and then an ordered dict from
>> that? Just build the ordered dict from the list, because it's behaves
>> like a dict, except for remembering the order in which the keys were
>> added.
> 
> Could you write some pseudo-code for that?  I'm not sure how I would
> add the items to the OrderedDict while looping through the list.
> Wouldn't the list need to be sorted first (which in this case isn't
> practical)?
> 
> 
> 

Could you please clarify what you are trying to achieve as you appear to 
be confusing ordering with sorting.

Mark Lawrence.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb 22 13:30:31 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hluigd$kag$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/22/2010 8:29 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-02-22, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>
>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B.
>
> [tail of various windows breakages elided]
>
>> Comments?
>
> Switch to Linux?
>
> Or at least install Cygwin?
>
Yes, definitely not related, but maybe some W7 user has a similar 
experience here. It seems a natural place to look, since it should be 
reasonably common.

I have Cygwin.


From sridharr at activestate.com  Mon Feb 22 13:53:31 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:53:31 -0800
Subject: Python won't run
In-Reply-To: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502AC479A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
References: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502AC479A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <46D34AB9-9DC7-47E9-8288-2B5DFDB55BB8@activestate.com>

Have you tried using http://dependencywalker.com/ ?

-srid

On 2010-02-18, at 1:00 PM, Nardin, Cory L. wrote:

> Quickly, I have a Mac Intel with Windows XP installed.  Tried installing Python 2.6.4 from the binary and also ActivePython 2.6.4.10.  Both installations acted the same.  There seemed to be no problems during installation (used default options), but when I try to run Python I get an error message: ?This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application may fix this problem.?
>  
> Of course I searched on that error and it seems to be related to a MS library.  In a few different places it was recommended to install the MS Visual Studio redistributable package, which I did with no change in outcome.  I really have no idea what to do.
>  
> Any help is appreciated.
>  
> Thanks,
> Cory
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 22 13:57:56 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:57:56 +0100
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Bryan:
> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
> 
> unorderedDict = {}
> for thing in unorderedList:
> 	if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> 		UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> 	else:
> 		CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])

If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.


> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> 	orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)

This is not even valid syntax.


Please

   (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
       imagine the solution, and

   (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).

The above code is not real.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 22 14:32:45 2010
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:32:45 +0100
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
In-Reply-To: <tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>
Message-ID: <4b82dc5a$0$22916$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

G?nther Dietrich wrote:
> vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
>> I've tried:
>>
>> print format(.7,'%%')
>> .7.format('%%')
>>
>> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...
> 
> Did you try this:
> 
>>>> print('%d%%' % (0.7 * 100))
> 70%

That method will always round down; TomF's method will round to
the nearest whole number:

 >>> print "%d%%" % (0.698 * 100)
69%
 >>> print "{0:.0%}".format(.698)
70%

Only the OP knows which one is more appropriate for his use case.

Hope this helps,

-- HansM


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 14:41:45 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:41:45 -0800
Subject: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?
In-Reply-To: <973565.53691.qm@web38208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <973565.53691.qm@web38208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002221141u534fd5f7v8748f50f9094011f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Alex Quinn <alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> * Sqlite3 should fill the void now. ?However, in my experience, nearly every Linux Python install I encounter has a broken sqlite3 module ("ImportError: No module named _sqlite3"). It's a well-documented issue, but it the solution generally requires root access, which I don't have on these servers.
>

If your program is installed in the same way everything else is
installed on the system (RPM or deb packages, or whatever), there
should be dependencies clearly listed. When the admin installs your
code, he must also install the requisite modules that you list as
dependencies.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 14:45:10 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:45:10 -0800
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <20100221212511.GA23046@beron.tangosoft.com>
References: <20100221212511.GA23046@beron.tangosoft.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002221145o2527b03ds74a473d59bd079@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 1:25 PM, W. Martin Borgert <debacle at debian.org> wrote:
>
> I know that this issue has been discussed before, but most of
> the time using only one argument to eval().
>
> Is it possible to use the following code, e.g. run as part of a
> web application, to break in and if so, how?
>
> import math
>
> def myeval(untrustedinput):
> ? ?return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?{ "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
>
> Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the
> untrusted input string?
>
> Which Python built-ins and math functions would I have to add to
> the functions dictionary to make it unsafe?
>

Why would you ever run untrusted code on any machine in any language,
let alone Python?

If you're writing a web app, make it so that you only run trusted
code. That is, code installed by the admin, or approved by the admin.

--
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 15:00:19 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:19 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002221200g467f229cm4710db0d70d21105@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 10:22 AM, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
>>> then?
>>
>> Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in
>> functional languages.
>
> Heh! When I learned Miranda it felt natural to me. Prolog on the other
> hand...
>
> In short: I am afraid you're overgeneralizing here; it depends on one's
> background. If not, citation needed ;-)
>

Unfortunately, this is something that is hardly measurable. Short of a
survey (of whom? of what?), there can be no objective evaluation. To
date, I don't know of any such studies or surveys.

I won't deny that really smart people enjoy the challenge of
programming in a functional style, and some even find it easier to
work with. However, when it comes to readability and maintenance, I
appreciate the statement-based programming style, simply because it's
easier for me to understand an debug.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb 22 15:07:30 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:07:30 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xsk8tuj99.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> I won't deny that really smart people enjoy the challenge of
> programming in a functional style, and some even find it easier to
> work with. However, when it comes to readability and maintenance, I
> appreciate the statement-based programming style, simply because it's
> easier for me to understand an debug.

One thing those people are after is programs that work properly the
first time they are run, and thus don't need debugging.  They achieve
that a surprising amount of the time.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Mon Feb 22 15:16:26 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:16:26 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>

MRAB wrote:
> W. eWatson wrote:
>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It inspects 
>> the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it gave the 
>> results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A, and fired 
>> up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the file. I looked 
>> at properties for the B program, and it was clearly pointing to folder A.
>>
> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.

Windows 7 has symbolic links?


From ra21vi at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 15:19:15 2010
From: ra21vi at gmail.com (Ravi Kumar)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:19:15 +0000
Subject: GUI app on Windows for WMI digging
Message-ID: <9a63e8921002221219p38c03de2mfbf74a7301cbc6dd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am working on an application, which retrieves Windows system info
(Hardware / Software / Drivers / OS) and write to an xml.
For the GUI, I selected PyQT4, and for system info using WMI, I am using WMI
Package (http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/index.html) and popular pywin32.
To package the binary, I am considering py2exe.

I need to package these in binary package (though single binary output was
preferred, but could not find any examples online to achieve this). Also, I
took PyQT4, but I can switch to PyGTK if it is possible to get it in single
DLL/libs.

Overall, I need suggestions on:

   - which XML library is better/lightweight on Windows?I think pure python
   based xml processing libs would work (so lxml is out of option).
   - Can I get these in single binary (not installer), or if not, then how
   can I get in minimum files. Py2exe results many files.
   - Is QT4 better or GTK? No war/flaming over this, since least widgets are
   needed, which are available on both. Since the GUI is just 3-4
   screens/dialogs with minimum widgets, so speed does not matter. The only
   thing that matter is least files/libs (no seperate installation, file can
   provided with binary package).

-- 
-=Ravi=-
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From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb 22 15:31:18 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:31:18 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 10:22 AM, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
>>>> then?
>>>
>>> Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in
>>> functional languages.
>>
>> Heh! When I learned Miranda it felt natural to me. Prolog on the other
>> hand...
>>
>> In short: I am afraid you're overgeneralizing here; it depends on one's
>> background. If not, citation needed ;-)
>>
>
> Unfortunately, this is something that is hardly measurable. Short of a
> survey (of whom? of what?), there can be no objective evaluation. To
> date, I don't know of any such studies or surveys.
>
> I won't deny that really smart people enjoy the challenge of
> programming in a functional style, and some even find it easier to
> work with. However, when it comes to readability and maintenance, I
> appreciate the statement-based programming style, simply because it's
> easier for me to understand an debug.

In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
functionally. The former group consisted mostly of people who had little
or no programming experience, with a few exceptions (including me :-) ).

So I have the feeling it has more to do with your background then how
people think / are wired.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb 22 15:33:43 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:33:43 -0600
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>

Gib Bogle <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> writes:

> MRAB wrote:
>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It
>>> inspects the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it
>>> gave the results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A,
>>> and fired up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the
>>> file. I looked at properties for the B program, and it was clearly
>>> pointing to folder A.
>>>
>> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.
>
> Windows 7 has symbolic links?

   Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
   compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
   its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.

   :
   
   Symbolic links are available in NTFS starting with Windows Vista.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365680(VS.85).aspx

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From icanbob at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 15:37:10 2010
From: icanbob at gmail.com (bobicanprogram)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:37:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: Python-SIMPL v2.0.0 released
References: <964d1dcb-46a9-40a5-ab41-199fd1e364a7@t21g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <40dd1bcc-4791-463d-a730-d8e3c52ff2a2@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:40 am, bobicanprogram <ican... at gmail.com> wrote:
> The SIMPL project (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl) aims to bring the
> Send/Receive/Reply messaging (first popularized by QNX) to the open
> source Linux world.   Since its inception more that 10 years ago,  the
> SIMPL toolkit has grown steadily in functionality.   Through the use
> of surrogates,  SIMPL modules can be dispersed seamlessly across
> networks including heterogeneous networks with only one Linux node.
> SIMPL modules can also be written in several programming languages
> including Python, C, C++, JAVA and Tcl/Tk.   Modules written in
> different languages can be mixed in a SIMPL appliction.
>
> Python-SIMPL has been used to connect Python UIs to C data acquisition/
> computation backends.   While this is an example of a common use for
> the toolkit,  it is by no means the only place it could be useful.
> Python to Python,  Python to JAVA as well as Python to C are all
> seamlessly possible in both local or distributed applications.  Python-
> SIMPL allows a software application to be broken up into modules where
> the language choices for each module can be optimized.
>
> The Python-SIMPL interface library has undergone a fundamental
> revision with the v2.0.0 release. The underlying shared library which
> wraps the SIMPL toolkit as a Python extension was cleaned up
> considerably.   In addition two new Python wrappers were created to
> expose this SIMPL toolkit in more object oriented fashion to the
> Python developer.
>
> The simplest starting point for exploring the Python-SIMPL toolkit is
> an online "hello world" level tutorial at:
>
> http://www.icanprogram.com/06py/lesson1/lesson1.html
>
> The Python-SIMPL toolkit can be downloaded in source form at:
>
> http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/python.self.htm
>
> or in precompiled binary (i386) form at:
>
> http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/pythonbin.self.html
>
> We at the SIMPL project welcome participants at all levels of
> expertise.   If you are interested do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> bob


There is a typo in the source link.  It should read

http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/python.self.html

Sorry about that.

bob


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb 22 16:19:32 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:19:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hlusd4$5c6$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-22, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Gib Bogle <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> writes:
>
>> MRAB wrote:
>>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It
>>>> inspects the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it
>>>> gave the results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A,
>>>> and fired up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the
>>>> file. I looked at properties for the B program, and it was clearly
>>>> pointing to folder A.
>>>>
>>> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.
>>
>> Windows 7 has symbolic links?
>
>    Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
>    compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
>    its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.

So symbolic links on W7 function like Unix (hard) links
rather than Unix _symbolic_ links??

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Is this sexual
                                  at               intercourse yet??  Is it,
                               visi.com            huh, is it??


From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 16:29:26 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 10:57?am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * Bryan:
>
>
>
> > I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary. ?From
> > that dict, I create an ordered dict. ?I can't think of a way to build
> > the ordered dict while going through the original loop. ?Is there a
> > way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> > ordered dict? ?Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> > unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> > the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> > become faster. ?Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> > an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> > unorderedDict = {}
> > for thing in unorderedList:
> > ? ?if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> > ? ?else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>
> > orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> > for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> > ? ?orderedDict[k] ?unorderedDict.pop(k)
>
> This is not even valid syntax.
>
> Please
>
> ? ?(1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
> ? ? ? ?imagine the solution, and
>
> ? ?(2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>
> The above code is not real.
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
*sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
recipe for an OrderedDict.

Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?

My solution is to create a regular dict from the list.  Then sort the
keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict.  Since the keys are
being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
order.

self.accTotals = {}
for row in self.rows:
	if row.acc.code in self.accTotals:
		self.accTotals[row.acc.code].addRow(row)
	else:
		accSummary = Total()
		accSummary.addRow(row)
		self.accTotals[row.acc.code] = accSummary
self.accTotals = self._getOrderedDict(self.accTotals)


From aonlazio at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 16:56:02 2010
From: aonlazio at gmail.com (AON LAZIO)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:56:02 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Message-ID: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>

That will be superb

-- 
Passion is my style
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From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb 22 17:02:47 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:02:47 -0600
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hlusd4$5c6$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <873a0tszco.fsf@castleamber.com>

Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 2010-02-22, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Gib Bogle <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> writes:
>>
>>> MRAB wrote:
>>>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It
>>>>> inspects the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it
>>>>> gave the results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A,
>>>>> and fired up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the
>>>>> file. I looked at properties for the B program, and it was clearly
>>>>> pointing to folder A.
>>>>>
>>>> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.
>>>
>>> Windows 7 has symbolic links?
>>
>>    Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
>>    compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
>>    its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.
>
> So symbolic links on W7 function like Unix (hard) links
> rather than Unix _symbolic_ links??

Which leads you to this conclusion?

According to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365006(VS.85).aspx

    There are three types of file links supported in the NTFS file
    system: hard links, junctions, and symbolic links. This topic is an
    overview of hard links and junctions. For information about symbolic
    links, see Creating Symbolic Links.

Creating Symbolic Links:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363878(VS.85).aspx

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 17:10:47 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:10:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5e840b4-dd74-48b2-8c65-b4e00b0a8d96@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 22 Feb, 21:29, Bryan <bryanv... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up. ?I want to end up with a
> *sorted* dict from an unordered list. ?*Sorting the list is not
> practical in this case.* ?I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> recipe for an OrderedDict.

Why does the dict need to be sorted?
Why is it impractical to sort the list, but practical to sort the
dict?

Whithout knowing this, it is difficult to get an idea of your problem
an a potential solution.

> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list. ?Then sort the
> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict. ?Since the keys are
> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
> order.
>
> self.accTotals = {}
> for row in self.rows:
> ? ? ? ? if row.acc.code in self.accTotals:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.accTotals[row.acc.code].addRow(row)
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? accSummary = Total()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? accSummary.addRow(row)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.accTotals[row.acc.code] = accSummary
> self.accTotals = self._getOrderedDict(self.accTotals)

This code is a typical example where defaultdict, which was added in
Python 2.5 [1],  would be of use:

accTotals = defaultdict(Total)
for row in self.rows:
    accTotals[row.acc.code].addRow(row)
self.accTotals = self._getOrderedDict(accTotals)

However, as you don't explain what self._getOrderedDict(...) does, it
is quite difficult to guess how to improve it!

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html#collections.defaultdict
--
Arnaud


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Mon Feb 22 17:10:54 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:10:54 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>

John Bokma wrote:
> Gib Bogle <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> writes:
> 
>> MRAB wrote:
>>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It
>>>> inspects the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it
>>>> gave the results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A,
>>>> and fired up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the
>>>> file. I looked at properties for the B program, and it was clearly
>>>> pointing to folder A.
>>>>
>>> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.
>> Windows 7 has symbolic links?
> 
>    Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
>    compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
>    its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.
> 
>    :
>    
>    Symbolic links are available in NTFS starting with Windows Vista.
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365680(VS.85).aspx
> 

That explains my ignorance of this (excellent) development.  I'm still using W2K 
and XP.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Feb 22 17:16:07 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:16:07 +0100
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
> On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no>  wrote:
>> * Bryan:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>>
>>> unorderedDict = {}
>>> for thing in unorderedList:
>>>     if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>>>             UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>>     else:
>>>             CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>
>> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>>
>>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
>>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>>>     orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
>>
>> This is not even valid syntax.
>>
>> Please
>>
>>     (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
>>         imagine the solution, and
>>
>>     (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>>
>> The above code is not real.
>>
>> Cheers&  hth.,
>>
>> - Alf
>
> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
> *sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
> practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>
> Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>
> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list.  Then sort the
> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict.  Since the keys are
> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
> order.

If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't 
sort the list. If you have the space & time to sort the intermediate 
dict, then it's as easy to create the list & sort & then the ordered 
dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.

Diez


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb 22 17:40:27 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:40:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hlusd4$5c6$1@reader2.panix.com> <873a0tszco.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hlv14r$n3e$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-22, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> writes:

>>>> Windows 7 has symbolic links?
>>>
>>>    Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
>>>    compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
>>>    its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.

>>
>> So symbolic links on W7 function like Unix (hard) links
>> rather than Unix _symbolic_ links??
>
> Which leads you to this conclusion?

The quote above that says that "symbolic links" on W7 function
just like "links" on Unix.  A "link" on Unix is a hard link.  I
presumed that if they meant "symbolic links" on Unix, they
would have said "symbolic links".


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! What a COINCIDENCE!
                                  at               I'm an authorized "SNOOTS
                               visi.com            OF THE STARS" dealer!!


From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 17:48:55 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:48:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
	<7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 2:16?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no> ?wrote:
> >> * Bryan:
>
> >>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary. ?From
> >>> that dict, I create an ordered dict. ?I can't think of a way to build
> >>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop. ?Is there a
> >>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> >>> ordered dict? ?Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> >>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> >>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> >>> become faster. ?Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> >>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> >>> unorderedDict = {}
> >>> for thing in unorderedList:
> >>> ? ? if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> >>> ? ? else:
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> >> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>
> >>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> >>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> >>> ? ? orderedDict[k] ?unorderedDict.pop(k)
>
> >> This is not even valid syntax.
>
> >> Please
>
> >> ? ? (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
> >> ? ? ? ? imagine the solution, and
>
> >> ? ? (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>
> >> The above code is not real.
>
> >> Cheers& ?hth.,
>
> >> - Alf
>
> > Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up. ?I want to end up with a
> > *sorted* dict from an unordered list. ?*Sorting the list is not
> > practical in this case.* ?I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> > recipe for an OrderedDict.
>
> > Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>
> > My solution is to create a regular dict from the list. ?Then sort the
> > keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict. ?Since the keys are
> > being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
> > end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
> > order.
>
> If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't
> sort the list. If you have the space & time to sort the intermediate
> dict, then it's as easy to create the list & sort & then the ordered
> dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.
>
> Diez

Here is how I am converting a regular dict to an ordered dict that is
sorted by keys.

def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
	ordered = OrderedDict()
	for k in sorted(theDict.keys()):
		ordered[k] = theDict.pop(k)
	return ordered


The list is a bunch of objects that represent hours worked by
employees on particular jobs, and accounts, and client purchase orders
etc.  From this list, I am generating these sorted dicts that contain
summarizing information about the list.  So one of the sorted dicts
will give a summary of hours worked by job number.  Another one will
give summary information by client PO number etc.  So instead of
sorting the list a bunch of different ways, I keep the list as is,
generate the summaries I need into dictionaries, and then sort those
dictionaries as appropriate.






From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb 22 18:00:08 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:00:08 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <7xvddori4n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
> functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
> latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
> languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
> functionally. 

I've heard it expressed this way (paraphrased): functional programming
has a steep unlearning curve.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Feb 22 18:00:32 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:00:32 +0100
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
	<7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uggkhFbc9U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 22.02.10 23:48, schrieb Bryan:
> On Feb 22, 2:16 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de>  wrote:
>> Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no>    wrote:
>>>> * Bryan:
>>
>>>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>>
>>>>> unorderedDict = {}
>>>>> for thing in unorderedList:
>>>>>      if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>>>>>              UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>>>>      else:
>>>>>              CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>
>>>> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>>
>>>>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
>>>>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>>>>>      orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
>>
>>>> This is not even valid syntax.
>>
>>>> Please
>>
>>>>      (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
>>>>          imagine the solution, and
>>
>>>>      (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>>
>>>> The above code is not real.
>>
>>>> Cheers&    hth.,
>>
>>>> - Alf
>>
>>> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
>>> *sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
>>> practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
>>> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>>
>>> Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>>
>>> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list.  Then sort the
>>> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict.  Since the keys are
>>> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
>>> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
>>> order.
>>
>> If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't
>> sort the list. If you have the space&  time to sort the intermediate
>> dict, then it's as easy to create the list&  sort&  then the ordered
>> dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.
>>
>> Diez
>
> Here is how I am converting a regular dict to an ordered dict that is
> sorted by keys.
>
> def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
> 	ordered = OrderedDict()
> 	for k in sorted(theDict.keys()):
> 		ordered[k] = theDict.pop(k)
> 	return ordered
>
>
> The list is a bunch of objects that represent hours worked by
> employees on particular jobs, and accounts, and client purchase orders
> etc.  From this list, I am generating these sorted dicts that contain
> summarizing information about the list.  So one of the sorted dicts
> will give a summary of hours worked by job number.  Another one will
> give summary information by client PO number etc.  So instead of
> sorting the list a bunch of different ways, I keep the list as is,
> generate the summaries I need into dictionaries, and then sort those
> dictionaries as appropriate.

Again - why? Unless there is some filtering going on that reduces the 
number of total entries before the sorting when building the 
intermediate dict, a simple

ordered = OrderedDict(sorted(the_list, key=lambda v: v['some_key']))

won't cost you a dime more.

I think you believe in building the dict so that ou can have the key for 
sorting. As shown abov - you don't need to.

It might even benefitial to really re-sort the original list, because 
that spares you the intermediate list.


Diez


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 18:00:48 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:00:48 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlv2b0$jc3$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3 at v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:

> On Feb 20, 1:30 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>
>> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
>>
>> > In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it
>> > had no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there
>> > are no procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without
>> > supplying an explicit return value it returns None.
>>
>> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why
>> should it distinguish between statements and expressions?
> 
> Because the latter are different in Python (and in Ruby, and in most
> modern languages), while the former aren't distinguished in Python or
> Ruby or most modern languages?  Primarily functional languages are the
> main exception, but other than them it's pretty uncommon to find any
> modern language that does distinguish procedures and functions, or one
> that doesn't distinguished statements and expressions.
> 
> You can certainly find exceptions, but distinguishing statements and
> expressions is absolutely commonplace in modern languages, and
> distinguishing functions and procedures is in the minority.

So they are worth distinguishing where they are distinguished, except where
they?re not?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 18:01:57 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:01:57 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlv2d5$jc3$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list at python.org>, MRAB wrote:

> Not Python-related.

Seems to be pretty common with Windows-related complaints in this group.


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 18:06:36 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:06:36 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hlusd4$5c6$1@reader2.panix.com> <873a0tszco.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hlv2lt$jc3$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <873a0tszco.fsf at castleamber.com>, John Bokma wrote:

> According to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365006(VS.85).aspx
> 
>     There are three types of file links supported in the NTFS file
>     system: hard links, junctions, and symbolic links. This topic is an
>     overview of hard links and junctions.

?Junctions? sound like Linux/Unix ?mount points?, plus Linux-style ?bind 
mounts?. Except of course Dimdows puts it all into the NTFS-specific 
implementation, instead of at the virtual filesystem layer. So whereas Linux 
can handle these while letting you mix and match different filesystem types 
(ext3, XFS, even FAT32, etc), Windows cannot.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 18:08:17 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:08:17 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>	<7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B830E61.8000700@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Bryan wrote:
> On Feb 22, 2:16 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
>> Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no>  wrote:
>>>> * Bryan:
>>>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>>>>> unorderedDict = {}
>>>>> for thing in unorderedList:
>>>>>     if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>>>>>             UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>>>>     else:
>>>>>             CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>>> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>>>>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
>>>>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>>>>>     orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
>>>> This is not even valid syntax.
>>>> Please
>>>>     (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
>>>>         imagine the solution, and
>>>>     (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>>>> The above code is not real.
>>>> Cheers&  hth.,
>>>> - Alf
>>> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
>>> *sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
>>> practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
>>> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>>> Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>>> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list.  Then sort the
>>> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict.  Since the keys are
>>> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
>>> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
>>> order.
>> If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't
>> sort the list. If you have the space & time to sort the intermediate
>> dict, then it's as easy to create the list & sort & then the ordered
>> dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.
>>
>> Diez
> 
> Here is how I am converting a regular dict to an ordered dict that is
> sorted by keys.
> 
> def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
> 	ordered = OrderedDict()
> 	for k in sorted(theDict.keys()):
> 		ordered[k] = theDict.pop(k)
> 	return ordered
> 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, you could do:

     def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
         return OrderedDict(sorted(theDict.items()))

[snip]


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 18:27:52 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:27:52 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002221527j416d3fc5k770d5bafe7dfd0ae@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
> That will be superb
>
> --
> Passion is my style

And when will <insert random band> be as famous as the beatles?


From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 18:31:32 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:31:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
	<7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7uggkhFbc9U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8c9b72a6-8496-4992-a521-37221ebd68da@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 3:00?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 22.02.10 23:48, schrieb Bryan:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 2:16 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> ?wrote:
> >> Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
>
> >>> On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no> ? ?wrote:
> >>>> * Bryan:
>
> >>>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary. ?From
> >>>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict. ?I can't think of a way to build
> >>>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop. ?Is there a
> >>>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> >>>>> ordered dict? ?Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> >>>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> >>>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> >>>>> become faster. ?Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> >>>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> >>>>> unorderedDict = {}
> >>>>> for thing in unorderedList:
> >>>>> ? ? ?if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> >>>>> ? ? ?else:
> >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> >>>> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>
> >>>>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> >>>>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> >>>>> ? ? ?orderedDict[k] ?unorderedDict.pop(k)
>
> >>>> This is not even valid syntax.
>
> >>>> Please
>
> >>>> ? ? ?(1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
> >>>> ? ? ? ? ?imagine the solution, and
>
> >>>> ? ? ?(2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>
> >>>> The above code is not real.
>
> >>>> Cheers& ? ?hth.,
>
> >>>> - Alf
>
> >>> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up. ?I want to end up with a
> >>> *sorted* dict from an unordered list. ?*Sorting the list is not
> >>> practical in this case.* ?I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> >>> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>
> >>> Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>
> >>> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list. ?Then sort the
> >>> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict. ?Since the keys are
> >>> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
> >>> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
> >>> order.
>
> >> If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't
> >> sort the list. If you have the space& ?time to sort the intermediate
> >> dict, then it's as easy to create the list& ?sort& ?then the ordered
> >> dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > Here is how I am converting a regular dict to an ordered dict that is
> > sorted by keys.
>
> > def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
> > ? ?ordered = OrderedDict()
> > ? ?for k in sorted(theDict.keys()):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?ordered[k] = theDict.pop(k)
> > ? ?return ordered
>
> > The list is a bunch of objects that represent hours worked by
> > employees on particular jobs, and accounts, and client purchase orders
> > etc. ?From this list, I am generating these sorted dicts that contain
> > summarizing information about the list. ?So one of the sorted dicts
> > will give a summary of hours worked by job number. ?Another one will
> > give summary information by client PO number etc. ?So instead of
> > sorting the list a bunch of different ways, I keep the list as is,
> > generate the summaries I need into dictionaries, and then sort those
> > dictionaries as appropriate.
>
> Again - why? Unless there is some filtering going on that reduces the
> number of total entries before the sorting when building the
> intermediate dict, a simple
>
> ordered = OrderedDict(sorted(the_list, key=lambda v: v['some_key']))
>
> won't cost you a dime more.
>
> I think you believe in building the dict so that ou can have the key for
> sorting. As shown abov - you don't need to.
>
> It might even benefitial to really re-sort the original list, because
> that spares you the intermediate list.
>
> Diez

Lets say my list has 1 million items.  If I sort the list before
summarizing it, I will absolutley have to sort 1 million items.

However, if I summarize first, then just sort the keys in the summary
dict, I could wind up only sorting 4 or 5 items, if within that 1
million item list, there were only 4 or 5 job numbers for example.
The list stays as is, and my summary dictionary is sorted so I can
iterate through it and make little reports that humans will like.




From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Feb 22 18:34:58 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:34:58 -0500
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8314A2.500@optimum.net>

On 2/22/2010 4:29 PM, Bryan wrote:
>
> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
> *sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
> practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>

Have you looked at this:

   http://pypi.python.org/pypi/sorteddict/1.2.1

 >>> data = zip('afcedbijhg', range(10))
 >>> old = dict(data)
 >>> for key in old:
...     print key, old[key]
...
a 0
c 2
b 5
e 3
d 4
g 9
f 1
i 6
h 8
j 7
 >>> new = sorteddict.sorteddict(data)
 >>> for key in new:
...     print key, new[key]
...
a 0
b 5
c 2
d 4
e 3
f 1
g 9
h 8
i 6
j 7

-John


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 18:57:22 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:57:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ec471ca5-6ee4-49f9-b64c-947bafdc109e@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 3:27?pm, Krister Svanlund <krister.svanl... at gmail.com>
wrote:

> And when will <insert random band> be as famous as the Beatles?

And when will <insert random non-schmaltzoid singer) be as famous as
Phil Collins?


From falk at mauve.rahul.net  Mon Feb 22 19:01:30 2010
From: falk at mauve.rahul.net (Edward A. Falk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:01:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>

You mean it's not?

-- 
	-Ed Falk, falk at despams.r.us.com
	http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/


From alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 22 19:01:44 2010
From: alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com (Alex Quinn)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:01:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002221141u534fd5f7v8748f50f9094011f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <973565.53691.qm@web38208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6cc20cea1002221141u534fd5f7v8748f50f9094011f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <146400.8956.qm@web38205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the reply, Jonathan, but I was hoping to find a workaround.  I don't have root access for these machines so I can't repair the install.  Among the 6 Linux servers at 3 separately managed organizations where I do work, the sqlite3 module was broken 100% of the time.  It seems to be a common problem, so I'd like to make my code robust enough to deal with it gracefully.  Ideally, the Python build process would refuse to install a faulty install, but that's another matter.  I'm just looking for a workaround.

Thanks,
Alex



----- Original Message ----
From: Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net>
To: Alex Quinn <alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com>
Cc: python-list at python.org
Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 2:41:45 PM
Subject: Re: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Alex Quinn <alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> * Sqlite3 should fill the void now.  However, in my experience, nearly every Linux Python install I encounter has a broken sqlite3 module ("ImportError: No module named _sqlite3"). It's a well-documented issue, but it the solution generally requires root access, which I don't have on these servers.
>

If your program is installed in the same way everything else is
installed on the system (RPM or deb packages, or whatever), there
should be dependencies clearly listed. When the admin installs your
code, he must also install the requisite modules that you list as
dependencies.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net



      


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Mon Feb 22 19:20:18 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:20:18 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8j0j4vqa8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:48:55 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 21, 1:54 am, Tim Roberts <t... at probo.com> wrote:
>> DANNY <danijel.gv... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
>> >network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
>> >use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
>> >couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.
>>
>> If you want to manipulate the frames (as bitmaps), then you have little
>> choice but to decode the MPEG as you receive it, manipulate the bitmaps,
>> and re-encode it back to MPEG.
>>
>> That's going to take a fair amount of time...
>> --
>> Tim Roberts, t... at probo.com
>> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>
> Yes, well beside bieng time-consuming, that is also inappropriate for
> me,
> because I want to have clip that would be streamed across the network
> and
> have the same GoP on the client side as the original-because I want to
> see
> what is the effect of errors on different GoP sizes. I would
> manipuleta the
> received clip just in the way that (if there are too many errors) I
> would
> stop displaying untill the next I frame.....I cant find a way to do
> that....is there a way?

Could you say a bit more about what you mean when you say "the effect of  
errors"?  It's easy enough to introduce bit errors into a data file (just  
flip random bits), but I'm not clear what it is you're trying to measure.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb 22 20:25:30 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:30 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>

So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with 
XP, and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary 
Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?

How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the  program 
in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.



From shawn at milochik.com  Mon Feb 22 20:54:28 2010
From: shawn at milochik.com (Shawn Milochik)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:54:28 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCBC981F-317D-473E-A403-C7FE624D407A@milochik.com>

When will Java be popular enough to replace other languages in their own environments, the way Python has done to Java (Jython) and .NET (IronPython)?

Shawn

From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 21:01:18 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:01:18 +0100
Subject: How to transmit a crash report ?
Message-ID: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>

hello,

in my python desktop applications,
I'ld like to implement a crash reporter.
By redirecting the sys.excepthook,
I can detect a crash and collect the necessary data.
Now I want that my users sends this information to me,
and I can't find a good way of doing this.

The following solutions came into my mind:
(most of my users are on Windows, and the programs are written in Python 
2.6)

1. mailto:
doesn't work if the the user didn't install a default email client,
or if the user uses a portable email client (that isn't started yet)
Besides this limits the messages to small amounts of data.

2.other mail options: smtp
AFAIK such a solution needs smtp authorization, and therefor I've to put 
my username and password in the desktop application.

3. http-post
Although post is also limited in size,
I could store information in cookies (don't know yet how), and cookies 
are sent parallel to the post message.
On the server site I can use a small php script, that stores the 
post-data, cookies and/or send's a (long) email.

are there better options ?

thanks,
Stef Mientki

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From gt67 at hw.ac.uk  Mon Feb 22 21:24:00 2010
From: gt67 at hw.ac.uk (Giorgos Tzampanakis)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:24:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
Message-ID: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>

I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a  
(dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for 
me. I want to use Python for that. Are there any libraries that 
can help me with the parsing of the assembly code?


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Feb 22 21:24:04 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:24:04 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>>>     Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
>>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
>>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
>>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
>>> carry through to the cache for the code.
>>     That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
>> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
>> Python is not.
> 
> Of course.  Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
> to call exec() or the equivalent.
> 
> It works fine if you use os.fork().

    Forking in multithreaded programs is iffy.  What happens depends
on the platform, and it's usually not what you wanted to happen.
Solaris before version 10 forks all threads, and both new processes
have all the threads running.  POSIX semantics are to fork only the
thread making the request.  The problem is that this leaves the other
Python threads in the new process with Python state, locks and reference
counts set, but no OS thread to run them.  See

"http://bugs.python.org/issue1683"
"http://bugs.python.org/issue874900"
"http://bugs.python.org/issue6721"
"http://bugs.python.org/issue7242"

There are at least two open bug reports in this area.

If you fork and "exec", which discards the state of Python in the child
process, there's less trouble. But if you're actually forking a
Python environment and running it, you're going to have at least a
memory leak, and probably further difficulties. 	

				John Nagle


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 21:27:41 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:27:41 +0000
Subject: How to transmit a crash report ?
In-Reply-To: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>
References: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B833D1D.6080908@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> hello,
> 
> in my python desktop applications,
> I'ld like to implement a crash reporter.
> By redirecting the sys.excepthook,
> I can detect a crash and collect the necessary data.
> Now I want that my users sends this information to me,
> and I can't find a good way of doing this.
> 
> The following solutions came into my mind:
> (most of my users are on Windows, and the programs are written in Python 
> 2.6)
> 
> 1. mailto:
> doesn't work if the the user didn't install a default email client,
> or if the user uses a portable email client (that isn't started yet)
> Besides this limits the messages to small amounts of data.
> 
> 2.other mail options: smtp
> AFAIK such a solution needs smtp authorization, and therefor I've to put 
> my username and password in the desktop application.
> 
Try reading the documentation for Python's smtplib module.

You don't need to provide any password.

> 3. http-post
> Although post is also limited in size,
> I could store information in cookies (don't know yet how), and cookies 
> are sent parallel to the post message.
> On the server site I can use a small php script, that stores the 
> post-data, cookies and/or send's a (long) email.
> 
> are there better options ?
> 



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb 22 21:33:40 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:33:40 -0800
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7x635obrzv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Giorgos Tzampanakis <gt67 at hw.ac.uk> writes:
> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a  
> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for 
> me. I want to use Python for that. Are there any libraries that 
> can help me with the parsing of the assembly code?

One "dead simple" option is the re module.


From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 21:39:34 2010
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:39:34 -0500
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f1002221839v75fa29dbg7beef5ce46b2cb50@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the ?program in
> another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
Ask in an appropriate forum. I'm not sure where that is but you might
try http://www.sevenforums.com/


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 22:08:19 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:08:19 +1300
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio at 127.0.0.1>, Giorgos 
Tzampanakis wrote:

> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a
> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for
> me.

Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself as the assembler. 
Call routines in your library to output the code. That way you have a 
language more powerful than any assembler.

See <http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8> for an example.


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 22:10:03 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:10:03 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13616@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlvgub$rmr$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message 
<3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13616 at k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, Michael 
Sparks wrote:

> [1] This is perhaps more appropriate because '(a b c) is equivalent
>     to (quote a b c), and quote a b c can be viewed as close to
>     python's expression "lambda: a b c"

You got to be kidding.


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 22:14:42 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:14:42 +1300
Subject: MySQLdb, blobs, and inserting
References: <85itgj$mlc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <85k0fd$hv2$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
	<387de600.0@news.cyberway.com.sg>
	<mailman.45.1266790507.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlvh72$rmr$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <mailman.45.1266790507.4577.python-list at python.org>, Dennis Lee 
Bieber wrote:

> Besides, the approved method of interacting with MySQLdb would use:
> 
> c.execute("insert into items (story) values (%s)",
> (file.read(), ) )
> 
> which lets the adapter properly escape any dangerous characters in the
> data, then wrap it with any needed quotes.

There are so many situations this cannot deal with...

<http://www.codecodex.com/wiki/Useful_MySQL_Routines>


From e_d_k at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 22 22:47:26 2010
From: e_d_k at yahoo.com (Ed Keith)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:47:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
In-Reply-To: <hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <166845.21850.qm@web58906.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> Subject: Re: Writing an assembler in Python
> Giorgos 
> Tzampanakis wrote:
> 
> > I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I
> want to have a
> > (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine
> code for
> > me.
> 
> Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself
> as the assembler. 
> Call routines in your library to output the code. That way
> you have a 
> language more powerful than any assembler.
> 
> See <http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8> for
> an example.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

Not a bad idea, has anyone tried this for x86 machine code?

   -EdK 

Ed Keith
e_d_k at yahoo.com

Blog: edkeith.blogspot.com






      


From rpjanaka at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 22:48:54 2010
From: rpjanaka at gmail.com (R. P. Janaka)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:18:54 +0530
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
Message-ID: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
platform independent way, using python...?

Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
Is this possible with python..?

-- 
Regards,
R. P. Janaka
-------------- next part --------------
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From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb 22 23:06:30 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:06:30 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.87.1266892777.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.87.1266892777.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlvk8a$qt3$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/22/2010 6:39 PM, David Robinow wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the  program in
>> another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
> Ask in an appropriate forum. I'm not sure where that is but you might
> try http://www.sevenforums.com/
Not in my NG list.

If the way this is going is that it occurs on W7, not just in my case, 
then it will impact many Python users.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Mon Feb 22 23:32:22 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:32:22 +1300
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
Message-ID: <hlvlom$vfk$2@speranza.aioe.org>

David Boddie wrote:

> I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
> the PyQt Wiki:
> 
>   http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt
> 
> If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
> presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
> this problem.
> 
> David

Thanks David, that worked a treat.  :-)


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 23:35:15 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:35:15 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002222035y34c8b052qa352d1a7daf5db10@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
> In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
> functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
> latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
> languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
> functionally. The former group consisted mostly of people who had little
> or no programming experience, with a few exceptions (including me :-) ).
>
> So I have the feeling it has more to do with your background then how
> people think / are wired.
>

That's encouraging. If functional programming is really more natural
to those who are less familiar with math and programming, then perhaps
there is a future for it.

Unfortunately, I don't know that just knowing how to program
functionally is enough. Even the functional folks have a hard time
optimizing routines (time or memory). Even with DBAs, they have to
know how the functional SQL query is translated into discrete machine
instructions.

As it is now, the vast majority (all?) of the programmers who do any
programming seriously are familiar with the statement-based approach.
A minority understand let alone appreciate the functional approach.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 23:36:55 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:36:55 -0800
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
> That will be superb
>

It already has.


-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 22 23:50:14 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:50:14 +0100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* W. eWatson:
> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with 
> XP,

Well, Windows NT has always had *hardlinks*. <g>

I found it a bit baffling that that functionality is documented as not 
implemented for Windows in the Python standard library.

But OK, it was non-trivial to do prior to Windows 2000; you had to sort of hack 
it using the backup APIs since the functionality was not exposed through the 
ordinary file APIs.



> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary 
> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
> 
> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the  program 
> in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.

Copy and paste.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 00:05:28 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:05:28 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B836218.1000600@invalid.com>

On 2/22/2010 8:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * W. eWatson:
>> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with
>> XP,
>
> Well, Windows NT has always had *hardlinks*. <g>
>
> I found it a bit baffling that that functionality is documented as not
> implemented for Windows in the Python standard library.
>
> But OK, it was non-trivial to do prior to Windows 2000; you had to sort
> of hack it using the backup APIs since the functionality was not exposed
> through the ordinary file APIs.
>
>
>
>> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary
>> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
>>
>> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the program
>> in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
>
> Copy and paste.
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf
I thought that's what I did. Is there some other way?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 00:06:32 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:06:32 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> writes:
> My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
> medium sized problems and it is worth learning.

I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better programmer
even if you never use it for anything beyond academic exercises.  It's
just like playing Bach fugues in some of your practice hours will make
you a better musician even if you are professionally a heavy metal rock
guitarist.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 00:09:51 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:09:51 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/22/2010 8:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * W. eWatson:
>> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with
>> XP,
>
> Well, Windows NT has always had *hardlinks*. <g>
>
> I found it a bit baffling that that functionality is documented as not
> implemented for Windows in the Python standard library.
>
> But OK, it was non-trivial to do prior to Windows 2000; you had to sort
> of hack it using the backup APIs since the functionality was not exposed
> through the ordinary file APIs.
>
>
>
>> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary
>> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
>>
>> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the program
>> in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
>
> Copy and paste.
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf
Alf? Hello,Norway. My wife is Norwegian and that was her father's name.

I thought that's what I did. Is there some other way?

Tusin Tak (That's about the size of my vocabulary and spelling ability! 
1000 thanks. What is the correct spelling?)


From timr at probo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:10:55 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:10:55 -0800
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <qmo6o5pu2e7j8kroju6j27fef9q0er059b@4ax.com>

DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Yes, well beside bieng time-consuming, that is also inappropriate 
>for me, because I want to have clip that would be streamed across
>the network and have the same GoP on the client side as the 
>original-because I want to see what is the effect of errors on 
>different GoP sizes. I would manipuleta the received clip just 
>in the way that (if there are too many errors) I would
>stop displaying untill the next I frame.....I cant find a way to do
>that....is there a way?

Sure.  You can do a partial decode yourself, scan for the start of frame
markers, pull the I/P/B state from that, and periodically "forget" to pass
the buffer through.  Your filter could have MPEG in and out.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:11:25 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:11:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 8:35?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
> > In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
> > functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
> > latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
> > languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
> > functionally. The former group consisted mostly of people who had little
> > or no programming experience, with a few exceptions (including me :-) ).
>
> > So I have the feeling it has more to do with your background then how
> > people think / are wired.
>
> That's encouraging. If functional programming is really more natural
> to those who are less familiar with math and programming, then perhaps
> there is a future for it.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't know that just knowing how to program
> functionally is enough. Even the functional folks have a hard time
> optimizing routines (time or memory). Even with DBAs, they have to
> know how the functional SQL query is translated into discrete machine
> instructions.
>
> As it is now, the vast majority (all?) of the programmers who do any
> programming seriously are familiar with the statement-based approach.
> A minority understand let alone appreciate the functional approach.
>

Hi Jonathon.  I understand three major programming paradigms--
imperative, OO, and functional.  My first instinct is always
imperative, as I just want the computer to *do* stuff.

I am not an expert in any paradigm and it is possible that I am
overlooking other major paradigms.

My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
medium sized problems and it is worth learning.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 00:15:01 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:15:01 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between (Verify) Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlvo8r$n6s$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Maybe someone could verify my result?

open file
read file line
print line
close file

data 1234

Execute it in a folder

Create another folder and copy the program to it.
put in a new data file as

data 4567

Execute the copied program
Does it give
data1234?



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:17:36 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:17:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <84a4a03f-22dd-4f05-b754-f1e55f6fdfa6@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:11?pm, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 22, 8:35?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
> > > In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
> > > functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
> > > latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
> > > languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
> > > functionally. The former group consisted mostly of people who had little
> > > or no programming experience, with a few exceptions (including me :-) ).
>
> > > So I have the feeling it has more to do with your background then how
> > > people think / are wired.
>
> > That's encouraging. If functional programming is really more natural
> > to those who are less familiar with math and programming, then perhaps
> > there is a future for it.
>
> > Unfortunately, I don't know that just knowing how to program
> > functionally is enough. Even the functional folks have a hard time
> > optimizing routines (time or memory). Even with DBAs, they have to
> > know how the functional SQL query is translated into discrete machine
> > instructions.
>
> > As it is now, the vast majority (all?) of the programmers who do any
> > programming seriously are familiar with the statement-based approach.
> > A minority understand let alone appreciate the functional approach.
>
> Hi Jonathon. ?I understand three major programming paradigms--
> imperative, OO, and functional. ?My first instinct is always
> imperative, as I just want the computer to *do* stuff.
>
> I am not an expert in any paradigm and it is possible that I am
> overlooking other major paradigms.
>
> My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
> medium sized problems and it is worth learning.

Sorry for misspelling your name, and yes I agree that you always want
some notion of what happens under the covers (in any paradigm).


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:27:04 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:27:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <05059b42-105b-4822-8448-d30add1dba15@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:06?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> > My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
> > medium sized problems and it is worth learning.
>
> I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better programmer
> even if you never use it for anything beyond academic exercises. ?It's
> just like playing Bach fugues in some of your practice hours will make
> you a better musician even if you are professionally a heavy metal rock
> guitarist.

Well said, and your analogy is based in fact--some pretty awesome rock
guitarists have training in classical and jazz.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb 23 00:45:24 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:45:24 -0800
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Jonathan Gardner
<jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
>> That will be superb
>>
> It already has.

Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

Although for Java-level mainstreamness, you'd probably need to be in
the top 3 or 4.

Cheers,
Chris
--
The TIOBE Index is by no means perfect though.
http://blog.rebertia.com


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:54:09 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:54:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.92.1266903927.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96c61ffb-108e-40af-9b45-7ac9b7289cb5@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:45?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Jonathan Gardner
>
> <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO <aonla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> That will be superb
>
> > It already has.
>
> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> Although for Java-level mainstreamness, you'd probably need to be in
> the top 3 or 4.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> The TIOBE Index is by no means perfect though.http://blog.rebertia.com

I am sure Python could rise to number six with some squigglies! ;)


From timr at probo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:57:22 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:57:22 -0800
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
	<7x635obrzv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <69r6o5948eut0hjjduahf2srl892pnisot@4ax.com>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>Giorgos Tzampanakis <gt67 at hw.ac.uk> writes:
>> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a  
>> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for 
>> me. I want to use Python for that. Are there any libraries that 
>> can help me with the parsing of the assembly code?
>
>One "dead simple" option is the re module.

Yes, indeed.  I have implemented TWO different FPGA-based microassemblers
in Python using the essentially undocumented but magically delicious
re.Scanner class.  Simple and flexible.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 23 01:00:48 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:00:48 +0100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlvquh$au1$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* W. eWatson:
> On 2/22/2010 8:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * W. eWatson:
>>> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with
>>> XP,
>>
>> Well, Windows NT has always had *hardlinks*. <g>
>>
>> I found it a bit baffling that that functionality is documented as not
>> implemented for Windows in the Python standard library.
>>
>> But OK, it was non-trivial to do prior to Windows 2000; you had to sort
>> of hack it using the backup APIs since the functionality was not exposed
>> through the ordinary file APIs.
>>
>>
>>
>>> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary
>>> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
>>>
>>> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the program
>>> in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
>>
>> Copy and paste.
>>
>>
>> Cheers & hth.,
>>
>> - Alf
> Alf? Hello,Norway. My wife is Norwegian and that was her father's name.
> 
> I thought that's what I did. Is there some other way?

(A)
For using Explorer, see

   <url: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Copy-and-paste-a-file>

and in particular look at the tips at the bottom.

(B)
To get absolute control you can use the command interpreter. I don't have 
Windows7 but googling yielded the following URL:

   <url: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/947-command-prompt.html>

The "copy" command there copies files.


> Tusin Tak (That's about the size of my vocabulary and spelling ability! 
> 1000 thanks. What is the correct spelling?)

That's "tusen takk".


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 23 01:03:00 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:03:00 +0100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org>	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hlvr2l$au1$2@news.eternal-september.org>

* Paul Rubin:
> Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> writes:
>> My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
>> medium sized problems and it is worth learning.
> 
> I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better programmer
> even if you never use it for anything beyond academic exercises.  It's
> just like playing Bach fugues in some of your practice hours will make
> you a better musician even if you are professionally a heavy metal rock
> guitarist.

Uhm, Paganini...

As I understand it he invented the "destroy your instruments on stage". :-)


Cheers,

- Alf (off-topic)


From jgorauskas at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 01:06:45 2010
From: jgorauskas at gmail.com (gorauskas)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I installed it on a Windows 7 machine with CPython 2.6.4 and I get the
following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dreampie.py", line 3, in <module>
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 73, in <module>
  File "dreampielib\gui\load_pygtk.pyc", line 49, in load_pygtk
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,  JGG


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Tue Feb 23 01:10:58 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:10:58 +1100
Subject: ANN: esky v0.4.0   [was Re: Upgrading Py2exe App]
In-Reply-To: <1266615136.2495.39.camel@rambutan>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<1266615136.2495.39.camel@rambutan>
Message-ID: <1266905458.3153.16.camel@durian>


Hi All,


  As promised I have made a new release of esky, my auto-update
framework for frozen python apps.  Details below for those who are
interested.

  Cheers,

     Ryan


-------------------------------


  esky:  keep frozen apps fresh

Esky is an auto-update framework for frozen Python applications.  It
provides a simple API through which apps can find, fetch and install
updates, and a bootstrapping mechanism that keeps the app safe in the
face of failed or partial updates.

Esky is currently capable of freezing apps with bbfreeze, cxfreeze and
py2exe.  Support for py2app is in the works.

The latest version is v0.4.0, with the following major changes:

   * added support for freezing with cx_Freeze.
   * improved support for freezing with py2exe.
   * added ability to set the icon on each executable
     (if the chosen freezer module supports it)
   * made Esky.cleanup() catch and ignore common errors.
   * added support for Python 3 (via distribute's "use_2to3" flag)
   * added a brief tutorial and example application
   * some backwards-incompatible API changes (see ChangeLog for details)


Downloads:  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky/0.4.0/

Code, bugs, etc:  http://github.com/rfk/esky/

Tutorial:  http://github.com/rfk/esky/tree/master/tutorial/


-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From rpjanaka at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 01:12:27 2010
From: rpjanaka at gmail.com (R. P. Janaka)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:42:27 +0530
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
In-Reply-To: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>

Please can anyone help me..??

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:18 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
> platform independent way, using python...?
>
> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
> Is this possible with python..?
>
> --
> Regards,
> R. P. Janaka
>



-- 
Regards,
R. P. Janaka
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From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 01:27:54 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <ff3e4cb5-2855-48e1-b3f3-726ff263852a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:24?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >>>> ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> >>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> >>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
> >>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> >>> carry through to the cache for the code.
> >> ? ? That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module. ?The
> >> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
> >> Python is not.
>
> > Of course. ?Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
> > to call exec() or the equivalent.
>
> > It works fine if you use os.fork().
>
> ? ? Forking in multithreaded programs is iffy. ?What happens depends
> on the platform, and it's usually not what you wanted to happen.

Well, yeah.  And threading in multiprocess apps is iffy.  In the real
world, though, multiprocessing is much more likely to result in a
decent app than multithreading--and if you're not skilled at either,
starting with multiprocessing is by far the smarter way to begin.

Basically, multiprocessing is always hard--but it's less hard to start
without shared everything.  Going with the special case (sharing
everything, aka threading) is by far the stupider and more complex way
to approach multiprocssing.

And really, for real-world apps, it's much, much more likely that
fork() will be sufficient than that you'll need to explore the
vagueries of a multithreaded solution.  Protected memory rocks, and in
real life it's probably 95% of the time where threads are only even
considered if the OS can't fork() and otherwise use processes well.


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 01:31:12 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:31:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <51de1750-d978-4f2f-8f72-1badf9b5acca@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:24?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >>>> ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> >>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> >>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
> >>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> >>> carry through to the cache for the code.
> >> ? ? That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module. ?The
> >> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
> >> Python is not.
>
> > Of course. ?Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
> > to call exec() or the equivalent.
>
> > It works fine if you use os.fork().
>
> ? ? Forking in multithreaded programs is iffy.

One more thing: the above statement ("forking in multithreaded
programs is iffy"), is absolutely true, but it's also completely
meaningless in modern multiprocessing programs--it's like saying
"gotos in structured programs are iffy".  That's true, but it also has
almost no bearing on decently constructed modern programs.


From FearsomeDragonfly at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 01:58:38 2010
From: FearsomeDragonfly at gmail.com (Brad Harms)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:58:38 GMT
Subject: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?
References: <mailman.67.1266858646.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y0Lgn.10452$Ab2.4339@newsfe23.iad>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:10:38 -0800, Alex Quinn wrote:

> Is there a way to have some kind of database (i.e. sqlite3, bsddb, dbm,
> etc.) that works out of the box on any Win/Linux/Mac machine with Python
> 2.6+ or 3.x? It's okay if the file format is different between machines,
> but I want my script to work without having to install anything.
> 
> Problems with current modules:
> 
> * Shelve used to do this.  Unfortunately, since bsddb was
> deprecated/removed from the standard distro and Windows doesn't have dbm
> or gdbm, the only remaining option on Windows is dumbdbm, which is
> discouraged in the docs.
> 
> * Sqlite3 should fill the void now.  However, in my experience, nearly
> every Linux Python install I encounter has a broken sqlite3 module
> ("ImportError: No module named _sqlite3"). It's a well-documented issue,
> but it the solution generally requires root access, which I don't have
> on these servers.
> 
> Potential solutions:
> 
> * Could I somehow bundle with my project the _sqlite3.so file and/or
> whatever else it needs? Or is there an alternate sqlite3 module I could
> use as a fallback that would just interface with the sqlite3 executable
> on the machine (i.e. /usr/local/bin/sqlite3)?
> 
> * Is there a way to drop bsddb into my project so it works out of the
> gate (no install) on either Linux, Windows, or Mac?
> 
> If you have any ideas, I'd be most appreciative.  My objective here is
> just to find a portable and reliable solution that I can use for small
> projects.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex

Hi,

I'm speaking with little experience here, but one thought I had is to try 
compiling Pysqlite ( http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pysqlite/2.5.6 ) for 
each of your target OS's, probably using GCC cross compilers for the 
platforms you aren't compiling on, then sort of "splice" them together so 
that _sqlite3 always points to the binary for the current OS.

This snippet might help you get started:

import sys

# Linux binary
if 'linux' in sys.platform.lower():
	import _sqlite3_linux as _sqlite3

# Windows binary
elif 'win32' == sys.platform:
	import _sqlite3_windows as _sqlite3

# Mac binary
elif 'darwin' == sys.platform:
	import _sqlite3_mac as _sqlite3

sys.modules['_sqlite3'] = _sqlite3


I'm not exactly sure when you would run this code. It would have to be 
sometime before you import the main sqlite3 module.

-- 
Brad Harms -- http://alphaios.net


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb 23 02:03:55 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:03:55 -0800
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
In-Reply-To: <de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
	<de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002222303td62ea73n4f957dd6de7d0ecd@mail.gmail.com>

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:18 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
>> platform independent way, using python...?
>>
>> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
>> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
>> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
>> Is this possible with python..?

Given Turing-completeness, one should more precisely ask whether there
is already a library for doing something in Python rather than whether
something is possible with Python.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:12 PM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:
> Please can anyone help me..??

It is generally customary to wait /at least/ one day before pinging on
one's question again.

If you were to have searched PyPI (http://pypi.python.org), you would
have found psutil, which seems to fit your bill:
http://code.google.com/p/psutil/

Cheers,
Chris
--
This completes today's Netiquette lesson.
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 02:08:30 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 07:08:30 GMT
Subject: Use eval() safely?
References: <20100221212511.GA23046@beron.tangosoft.com>
	<mailman.77.1266867912.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.23.07.08.29@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:45:10 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> Why would you ever run untrusted code on any machine in any language,
> let alone Python?

Because sometimes you have to run untrusted code, so you want to run it 
in a sandbox so it can't eat your machine.

E.g. viewing PDF files.

Or you might be building an app that allows the user to enter code and 
execute it:

http://tryruby.org/



> If you're writing a web app, make it so that you only run trusted code.
> That is, code installed by the admin, or approved by the admin.

But do you trust the admin? Do you think your admin has audited the 
entire tool chain of every application, library and operating system 
module in your system?



-- 
Steven


From jedady.1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 02:12:28 2010
From: jedady.1 at gmail.com (Jedady)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Now Win a laptop computer from (EZ laptop) free of charge
Message-ID: <7f1d8648-fcd0-4e26-a4ae-790e5e660e7f@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

All you have to do is just click on the link below and register on-
site.And you'll know the rest of the steps on your
own

http://ezlaptop.com/?r=130329

Good luck to all


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Tue Feb 23 02:16:46 2010
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:16:46 +0000
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
	<de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.95.1266908638.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87tyt81kwx.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:

>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:18 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
>>> platform independent way, using python...?
>>>
>>> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
>>> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
>>> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
>>> Is this possible with python..?
>
> Given Turing-completeness, one should more precisely ask whether there
> is already a library for doing something in Python rather than whether
> something is possible with Python.

Turing-completeness is irrelevant to questions like getting memory and
CPU info for a process. These are not issues of computability...


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb 23 02:28:01 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:28:01 -0800
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
In-Reply-To: <87tyt81kwx.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
	<de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.95.1266908638.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87tyt81kwx.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002222328l2a8b79e4wcdc027eaeffc883b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:18 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
>>>> platform independent way, using python...?
>>>>
>>>> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
>>>> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
>>>> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
>>>> Is this possible with python..?
>>
>> Given Turing-completeness, one should more precisely ask whether there
>> is already a library for doing something in Python rather than whether
>> something is possible with Python.
>
> Turing-completeness is irrelevant to questions like getting memory and
> CPU info for a process. These are not issues of computability...

True, but given that it is possible to access most *nix APIs from
Python and win32all provides what I understand to be extensive access
to the Win32 API from Python, cross-platform coding is almost always
possible in Python. You might have to manually deal with each case
yourself though. (More technically, I suppose that's being
multi-platform with relatively easy DIY cross-platform).

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From taskinoor.hasan at csebuet.org  Tue Feb 23 02:30:00 2010
From: taskinoor.hasan at csebuet.org (Taskinoor Hasan)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:30:00 +0600
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
In-Reply-To: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79153a2e1002222330s2eeee7c3h8ee9b94126c525e3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:48 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
> platform independent way, using python...?
>
> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
> Is this possible with python..?
>

I'm afraid that this is not possible in a platform independent way. In case
of Windows, you can look at Tim Golden's WMI module for Python. And in case
of Linux, you need to dig the details of /proc.

Regards
Taskinoor Hasan (Sajid)

>
> --
> Regards,
> R. P. Janaka
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 03:07:43 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:07:43 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falk <falk at mauve.rahul.net> wrote:
> You mean it's not?
>
> --
> ? ? ? ?-Ed Falk, falk at despams.r.us.com
> ? ? ? ?http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something
new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just
does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as
popular.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 03:11:52 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 08:11:52 GMT
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:01:44 +0000, Albert van der Horst wrote:

> In article <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Terrence Cole  <terrence at zettabytestorage.com> wrote:
>>Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>>
>>Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
>>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> 
> Python 4.0
> Warning: misleading blank space, expected:
>   - 0.1**0.1
> 
>>-0.7943282347242815


Making spaces significant in that fashion is mind-bogglingly awful. Let's 
look at a language that does this:

[steve at sylar ~]$ cat ws-example.rb
def a(x=4)
    x+2
end

b = 1
print (a + b), (a+b), (a+ b), (a +b), "\n"


[steve at sylar ~]$ ruby ws-example.rb
7773




-- 
Steven


From bobbo17141 at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 03:37:13 2010
From: bobbo17141 at googlemail.com (gabi meier)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:37:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?wgv_berufsunf=E4higkeitsversicherung=2C_berufsunf=E4higk?=
	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?eitsversicherung_testsieger=2C_berufsunf=E4higkeitsversicherung?=
	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?_mlp=2C_berufsunf=E4higkeitsversicherung_preis=2C_hdi_gerling_ber?=
	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?ufsunf=E4higkeitsversicherung=2C?=
Message-ID: <aa1d7761-357c-4d51-935f-cfa2a08bb89c@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

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berufsunf?higkeitsversicherung,

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+
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From ishwor.gurung at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 04:00:47 2010
From: ishwor.gurung at gmail.com (Ishwor Gurung)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:00:47 +1100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34534aed1002230100v7e06f714oca05933851d2b02c@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 February 2010 08:56, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
> That will be superb
Yes it would - but I'll just add in few words.

Java - Monstrous language that was Sun's flagship language. Now, it's Oracles.
Python - Hobby-ish hacking language that we all love so much (that we
wish everything was written using Python).

Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM

I like both Python and Java but given the amount of resources put into
JVM and Java (JEE is _huge_ in Enterprise if you didn't know that
already and there are universities that speak Java fluently), it's
kind of sad that Python till the day hasn't seen speedup in mainline
releases.

I see Python more as a hacker's language which will gradually evolve
and support SMEs and alike in the long run than Java (and of course we
write our weekend-only hacking projects in it :-) but for a
market-uptake like Java requires universities, colleges and students
to learn this wonderful little language and requests energetic hackers
to fix lock-contention issues and the like in the core implementation.

Perhaps I see a light, perhaps I see nothing.. but I feel the day is
coming nearer when Python would run as fast as Java/C. Only time can
tell - I hope the time is right about this.
--
Regards
Ishwor Gurung
Key id:0xa98db35e
Key fingerprint:FBEF 0D69 6DE1 C72B A5A8  35FE 5A9B F3BB 4E5E 17B5


From processor.dev1l at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 04:24:46 2010
From: processor.dev1l at gmail.com (Processor-Dev1l)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:24:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e27c8b0d-f8c8-4115-bfa6-9d91fcc61c1a@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 10:42?am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> Python shell!
>
> Some highlights:
>
> * Has whatever you would expect from a graphical Python shell -
> attribute completion, tooltips which show how to call functions,
> highlighting of matching parentheses, etc.
> * Fixes a lot of IDLE nuisances - in DreamPie interrupt always works,
> history recall and completion works as expected, etc.
> * Results are saved in the Result History.
Very good work, Noam,
I am looking forward to test this with IronPython :)

> * Long output is automatically folded so you can focus on what's
> important.
> * Jython and IronPython support makes DreamPie a great tool for
> exploring Java and .NET classes.
> * You can copy any amount of code and immediately execute it, and you
> can also copy code you typed interactively into a new file, with the
> Copy Code Only command. No tabs are used!
> * Free software licensed under GPL version 3.
>
> Check it out athttp://dreampie.sourceforge.net/and tell me what you
> think!
>
> Have fun,
> Noam



From sebastian.noack at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 04:24:48 2010
From: sebastian.noack at googlemail.com (sebastian.noack at googlemail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:24:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
References: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka> <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka> 
	<mailman.2844.1266693245.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <256926de-e175-4fa2-aa24-dbd5f96756ef@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 8:13?pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
> Here's a thought: ?Consider the subprocess module. ? It can do thefork
> and any necessary pipes and can do so in an OS independent way. ? It
> might make you life much easier.

As far as i know the subprocess module provides only functionality for
running any program as subprocess. But I just want to fork the current
process without putting some code in an external python script.

Sebastian Noack


From richard.lamboj at bilcom.at  Tue Feb 23 04:40:09 2010
From: richard.lamboj at bilcom.at (Richard Lamboj)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:40:09 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>
	<2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002231040.10422.richard.lamboj@bilcom.at>


Am Tuesday 23 February 2010 09:07:43 schrieb Krister Svanlund:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falk <falk at mauve.rahul.net> 
wrote:
> > You mean it's not?
> >
> > --
> > ? ? ? ?-Ed Falk, falk at despams.r.us.com
> > ? ? ? ?http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
>
> Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something
> new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just
> does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as
> popular.

Good morning,

i don't like Java/JSP, the synthax is blown up and the programs are damn slow. 
For ecllipse you should buy a cluster. There is C/C++/D, Python, Ruby, 
Gambas, TCL, PHP, SmallTalk and some other nice Programming Languages, so i 
don't understand why people use Java. "Java is the one an only OOP Language, 
the best one" - Yeah and whats with multiple inheritance? I'am in love with 
Python ;-)

Kind Regards


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 05:39:21 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:39:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<qmo6o5pu2e7j8kroju6j27fef9q0er059b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <19c11c1f-d70e-4b10-b425-6e65d4c70aeb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

@James I am thinkinhg about effect of errors that are within the
sequence of P frames. Where the P frames have only the information
about the changes in previous frames, so that errors are present until
the next I frame. So I would like to see how is this seen in different
GoP sized clips.

@Tim Thanks for the advice, now I will try to do that so I have a lot
of work in front of me. I will post any problems if they occure.

Guys thank you again for the help!


From hackingkk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 05:53:57 2010
From: hackingkk at gmail.com (hackingKK)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:23:57 +0530
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <201002231040.10422.richard.lamboj@bilcom.at>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>	<2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002231040.10422.richard.lamboj@bilcom.at>
Message-ID: <4B83B3C5.5020502@gmail.com>

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 03:10 PM, Richard Lamboj wrote:
> Am Tuesday 23 February 2010 09:07:43 schrieb Krister Svanlund:
>    
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falk<falk at mauve.rahul.net>
>>      
> wrote:
>    
>>> You mean it's not?
>>>
>>> --
>>>         -Ed Falk, falk at despams.r.us.com
>>>         http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
>>>        
>> Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something
>> new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just
>> does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as
>> popular.
>>      
> Good morning,
>
> i don't like Java/JSP, the synthax is blown up and the programs are damn slow.
> For ecllipse you should buy a cluster. There is C/C++/D, Python, Ruby,
> Gambas, TCL, PHP, SmallTalk and some other nice Programming Languages, so i
> don't understand why people use Java. "Java is the one an only OOP Language,
> the best one" - Yeah and whats with multiple inheritance? I'am in love with
> Python ;-)
>    

There are a few reasons why we don't see python as a "buz word".  Java 
was well marketed and the time when it came out with libraries like 
swing, there was no popularly known alternative.
As a matter of fact I don't really go by popularity with technologies, 
specially when it comes to programming languages.
Just show me 2 or 3 big apps or web sites which are scalable and take 
multiple requests.  show me just 2 instances where heavy number 
crunching is done efficiently and I am convinced.
I don't care how many apps are developed using java as long as they 
remain heavy and sloooooooow.
google runs on python and so do many other big applications.
marketing is more about exaggeration, which Sun did for Java.
Python was always in the hands of programmers who wanted their work done 
and wanted scalable apps.
So the conclusion is that "all that is popular need not be good for 
every thing ".

Happy hacking.
Krishnakant.


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 05:54:25 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
Message-ID: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

*Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*

Fascism is coming fastly to Internet because is the only communication
way that governements (managed by the bank and multinationals) cann't
control

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/21/acta-internet-enforc.html


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Feb 23 05:56:39 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:56:39 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>

Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?

Stefan



From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb 23 06:33:40 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:33:40 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100223063340.c891740a.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*

Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
posts to this list?

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From generalcody at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 06:50:15 2010
From: generalcody at gmail.com (General Cody)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:50:15 +0100
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
References: <Xns9C766EED8F526pinkisntwellgmailcom@147.102.222.230>
Message-ID: <2010022312501516807-generalcody@gmailcom>

Well... This is really a RTFM question.
It's all in the Python docs...

And it's really simple.



From aharrisreid at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 06:56:21 2010
From: aharrisreid at googlemail.com (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:56:21 +0000
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B83C265.2090802@googlemail.com>

gorauskas wrote:
> I installed it on a Windows 7 machine with CPython 2.6.4 and I get the
> following error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "dreampie.py", line 3, in <module>
>   File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 73, in <module>
>   File "dreampielib\gui\load_pygtk.pyc", line 49, in load_pygtk
> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks,  JGG
And I installed it on WinXP sp3 and Python 3.1 - when launched a window 
flashes before my eyes, then disappears!  Has the installation package 
been checked for all common Windows versions?

Regards,
Alan


From noamraph at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 07:11:07 2010
From: noamraph at gmail.com (Noam Yorav-Raphael)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:11:07 +0200
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b348a0851002230411s6562c338i2e8529ca6b74e4a2@mail.gmail.com>

?Thanks! I'm happy you like it!
Thanks for the feedback too. Here are my replies.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Chris Colbert <sccolbert at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is bloody fantastic! I must say, this fixes everything I hate about
> Ipython and gives me the feature I wished it had (with a few minor
> exceptions).
> I confirm this working on Kubuntu 9.10 using the ppa listed on the sites
> download page.
Great. It's important to know.

> I also confirm that it works interactively with PyQt4 and PyGtk (as to be
> expected since these toolkits use the PyOS_inputhook for the mainloop).
> However, it does not work interactively with wx (again, this is as expected
> since wx doesn't use the PyOS_inputhook). In short, the gui toolkit support
> is the same as in Ipython if you dont use any of the magic threading
> switches, which are now?deprecated?anyway.
Actually, currently DreamPie doesn't use PyOS_inputhook, but
implements the GUI hooks by itself. So it should be possible to
implement wx support if there's a way to handle events for a few
milliseconds. I tried it a bit and didn't find how to do it - if you
are interested in wx support and think you can help, please do.

> Matplotlib does not work interactively for me. Is there a special switch
> that needs to be used? or should a pick a non-wx backend? (i'm thinking the
> latter is more likely)
You should set "interactive:True" in your matplotlibrc file. The next
DreamPie version will warn about this.

> A couple of things I would like to see (and will help implement if I can
> find the time):
> 1) A shortcut to show the docstring of an object. Something like Ipython's
> `?`. i.e. ?`object.foo?` translates to `help(object.foo)`
I wrote this at http://wiki.python.org/moin/DreamPieFeatureRequests .
I hope I will manage to implement this soon.

> 2) How do I change the color of the blinking cursor at the bottom? I can't
> see the damn thing!
It should be in the color of the default text. If this is not the
case, please file a bug!

> 3) line numbers instead of the `>>>` prompt
I know IPython does this, but I thought you needed it only if placing
the cursor on top of the command doesn't do anything. Can you tell me
why do you need this in the context of a graphical user interface?

> 4) a plugin facility where we can define our own `magic` commands. I use
> Ipython's %timeit ALL the time.
Added it to the feature request page.

> 5) Double-click to re-fold the output section as well.
I don't think that's a good idea, because usually double-click selects
the word, and I don't want to change that behavior for regular text.
You can use ctrl-minus to fold the last output section!

> Thanks for making this!!!!
Thanks for the feedback!

Noam


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Tue Feb 23 07:48:51 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:48:51 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E235F7A6-6BE2-475C-865C-D36038580632@roalddevries.nl>

On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO wrote:
> That will be superb

I guess static typing will have to be added, so that tools like  
eclipse can inspect (and autocomplete) your programs [better].





From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb 23 07:50:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:50:15 +0100
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
In-Reply-To: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B83CF07.5000009@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test 
> into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.someclass
>
>     def test_spam(self):
>         """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
>         self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.function
>
>     def test_foo(self):
>         self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
>
> The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not 
> a standalone function, and I get errors like:
>
> TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
>
> The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this 
> class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I 
> don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the 
> function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather 
> than just one.
>
> Are there any better solutions?
>
>
>   

It looks like it works when declaring foo as static:

import unittest

def foo(a,b):
    return 'fooo'

class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
    target = staticmethod(foo)

    def test_foo(self):
        self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
   
    def runTest(self):
        self.test_foo()

AnotherTest().runTest()
...AssertionError: 'fooo' != 'foo'

JM


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 08:03:26 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:03:26 -0800
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
Message-ID: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>

In the last day, I posted a message titled "What's Going on between 
Python and win7?" I'd appreciate it if someone could verify my claim. A 
sample program to do this is below. I'm using IDLE in Win7 with Py 2.5.

My claim is that if one creates a program in a folder that reads a file 
in the folder it and then copies it to another folder, it will read  the 
data file in the first folder, and not a changed file in the new folder. 
I'd appreciate it if some w7 users could try this, and let me know what 
they find.

My experience is that if one checks the properties of the copied file, 
it will point to the original py file and execute it and not the copy.


# Test program. Examine strange link in Python under Win7
# when copying py file to another folder.
# Call the program vefifywin7.py
# To verify my situation use IDLE, save and run this program there.
# Put this program into a folder along with a data file
# called verify.txt. Create a single text line with a few characters in it
# Run this program and note if the output
# Copy the program and txt file to another folder
# Change the contents of the txt file
# Run it again, and see if the output is the same as in the other folder
track_file = open("verify.txt")
aline = track_file.readline();
print aline
track_file.close()


From olof.bjarnason at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 08:25:07 2010
From: olof.bjarnason at gmail.com (Olof Bjarnason)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:25:07 +0100
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <b348a0851002230411s6562c338i2e8529ca6b74e4a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b348a0851002230411s6562c338i2e8529ca6b74e4a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3dfe1d1002230525h53155a49mb8600a07f23222df@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/23 Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamraph at gmail.com>:
> ?Thanks! I'm happy you like it!
> Thanks for the feedback too. Here are my replies.
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Chris Colbert <sccolbert at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is bloody fantastic! I must say, this fixes everything I hate about
>> Ipython and gives me the feature I wished it had (with a few minor
>> exceptions).
>> I confirm this working on Kubuntu 9.10 using the ppa listed on the sites
>> download page.
> Great. It's important to know.
>
>> I also confirm that it works interactively with PyQt4 and PyGtk (as to be
>> expected since these toolkits use the PyOS_inputhook for the mainloop).
>> However, it does not work interactively with wx (again, this is as expected
>> since wx doesn't use the PyOS_inputhook). In short, the gui toolkit support
>> is the same as in Ipython if you dont use any of the magic threading
>> switches, which are now?deprecated?anyway.
> Actually, currently DreamPie doesn't use PyOS_inputhook, but
> implements the GUI hooks by itself. So it should be possible to
> implement wx support if there's a way to handle events for a few
> milliseconds. I tried it a bit and didn't find how to do it - if you
> are interested in wx support and think you can help, please do.
>
>> Matplotlib does not work interactively for me. Is there a special switch
>> that needs to be used? or should a pick a non-wx backend? (i'm thinking the
>> latter is more likely)
> You should set "interactive:True" in your matplotlibrc file. The next
> DreamPie version will warn about this.
>
>> A couple of things I would like to see (and will help implement if I can
>> find the time):
>> 1) A shortcut to show the docstring of an object. Something like Ipython's
>> `?`. i.e. ?`object.foo?` translates to `help(object.foo)`
> I wrote this at http://wiki.python.org/moin/DreamPieFeatureRequests .
> I hope I will manage to implement this soon.
>
>> 2) How do I change the color of the blinking cursor at the bottom? I can't
>> see the damn thing!
> It should be in the color of the default text. If this is not the
> case, please file a bug!
>
>> 3) line numbers instead of the `>>>` prompt
> I know IPython does this, but I thought you needed it only if placing
> the cursor on top of the command doesn't do anything. Can you tell me
> why do you need this in the context of a graphical user interface?
>
>> 4) a plugin facility where we can define our own `magic` commands. I use
>> Ipython's %timeit ALL the time.
> Added it to the feature request page.
>
>> 5) Double-click to re-fold the output section as well.
> I don't think that's a good idea, because usually double-click selects
> the word, and I don't want to change that behavior for regular text.
> You can use ctrl-minus to fold the last output section!
>
>> Thanks for making this!!!!
> Thanks for the feedback!

I installed latest .exe from LP on my Win7/32-bit machine, nothing
happens when I start DreamPie. Is there a bug report file somewhere I
could send you Noam?

(Python2.6.4 installed on my machine)

>
> Noam
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
http://olofb.wordpress.com


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb 23 08:46:30 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:46:30 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.101.1266922453.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>	<2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>	<201002231040.10422.richard.lamboj@bilcom.at>
	<mailman.101.1266922453.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b83dc2f$0$10229$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

hackingKK a ?crit :
(snip)
> I don't care how many apps are developed using java as long as they 
> remain heavy and sloooooooow.
> google runs on python

Please get your facts right.

Python is one of the languages used internally at Google, true, but so 
is Java.

And google-the-search-engine does not "run on python".



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb 23 08:47:11 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:47:11 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.106.1266929343.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.106.1266929343.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b83dc57$0$10229$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Roald de Vries a ?crit :
> On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO wrote:
>> That will be superb
> 
> I guess static typing will have to be added, so that tools like eclipse 
> can inspect (and autocomplete) your programs [better].

Yet another troll...



From dickinsm at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 08:48:09 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:48:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
	<pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <3fb9d59b-21c2-4372-9a32-c542e884faa7@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 8:11?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> Making spaces significant in that fashion is mind-bogglingly awful. Let's
> look at a language that does this:
>
> [steve at sylar ~]$ cat ws-example.rb
> def a(x=4)
> ? ? x+2
> end
>
> b = 1
> print (a + b), (a+b), (a+ b), (a +b), "\n"
>
> [steve at sylar ~]$ ruby ws-example.rb
> 7773

Hmm.  That's pretty nasty, all right.  Not that Python can claim to be
immune to such behaviour:

>>> 3 .real
3
>>> 3. real
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    3. real
          ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax


Though the fact that one of the cases raises an exception (rather than
silently giving some different behaviour) ameliorates things a bit.

--
Mark


From edreamleo at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 08:53:44 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:53:44 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7 final released
Message-ID: <ndn7o5trgoash2css41b0s0bu1hp88qkie@4ax.com>


Leo 4.7 final                    February 23, 2009

Leo 4.7 final is now available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106

Leo 4.7 final fixes all known bugs in Leo.

Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more.
See:
http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

The highlights of Leo 4.7:
--------------------------

- Leo now uses the simplest possible internal data model.
  This is the so-called "one-node" world.
- Leo supports Python 3.x.
- Leo requires Python 2.6 or above.
- Several important improvements in file handling.
    - Leo converts @file nodes to @thin nodes automatically.
    - Leo creates a 'Recovered Nodes' node to hold data that
      otherwise might be lost due to clone conflicts.
    - @auto-rst now works much more reliably reliably.
    - Leo no longer supports @noref trees.  Such trees are not
      reliable in cooperative environments.
- A new Windows installer.
- Many other features, including new command line options and new
plugins.
- Dozens of bug fixes.

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Forum:    http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
Bzr:      http://code.launchpad.net/leo-editor/
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html


From thom1948 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:21:50 2010
From: thom1948 at gmail.com (Thomas)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:21:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to transmit a crash report ?
References: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>
	<mailman.86.1266892058.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0b222aec-db04-45b7-9f86-e2839ffafc40@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:27?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Stef Mientki wrote:
> > hello,
>
> > in my python desktop applications,
> > I'ld like to implement a crash reporter.
> > By redirecting the sys.excepthook,
> > I can detect a crash and collect the necessary data.
> > Now I want that my users sends this information to me,
> > and I can't find a good way of doing this.
>
> > The following solutions came into my mind:
> > (most of my users are on Windows, and the programs are written in Python
> > 2.6)
>
> > 1. mailto:
> > doesn't work if the the user didn't install a default email client,
> > or if the user uses a portable email client (that isn't started yet)
> > Besides this limits the messages to small amounts of data.
>
> > 2.other mail options: smtp
> > AFAIK such a solution needs smtp authorization, and therefor I've to put
> > my username and password in the desktop application.
>
> Try reading the documentation for Python's smtplib module.
>
> You don't need to provide any password.
>
>
>
> > 3. http-post
> > Although post is also limited in size,
> > I could store information in cookies (don't know yet how), and cookies
> > are sent parallel to the post message.
> > On the server site I can use a small php script, that stores the
> > post-data, cookies and/or send's a (long) email.
>
> > are there better options ?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Try http://code.activestate.com/recipes/442459/


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:34:00 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:34:00 -0500
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <16651e81002230634t6d2d0679pe9d1ac028164cc1c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with XP,
> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary Python/W7
> user. Is there a simple solution?

I know people went off on a tangent talking about symbolic links and
hard links, but it is extremely unlikely that you created something
like that by accident.  Windows just doesn't create those without you
doing quite a bit of extra work.  It certainly doesn't create them
when you drag & drop files around through the normal interface.

> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the ?program in
> another folder, and not link to an ancestor.

You need to dig into the technical details of what's happening on your
hard drive.  You say you "copied a program from folder A to folder B".
 Can you describe, exactly, what steps you took?  What was the file
name of the program?  Was it just one file, or a directory, or several
files? What was the path to directory A?  What is the the path to
directory B?  When you open a CMD window and do a dir of each
directory, what exactly do you see?

You've given a pretty non-technical description of the problem you're
experiencing.  If you want more than wild speculation, you'll need to
give more specifics for people to help you with.

My wild guess: you held down control and shift while copying your
program.  That's the keyboard command to create a shortcut instead of
moving or copying a file.

-- 
Jerry


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:36:02 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
Message-ID: <hm0p2g$577$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hello,

I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator is 
not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:

import struct

def gen_rand_string():
     fileobj = open('/dev/urandom','rb')
     rstr = fileobj.read(4)
     rnum = struct.unpack('L',rstr)[0]
     rstr = '%i' % rnum
     rnuml = []
     while len(rstr) >= 2:
         c = rstr[:2]
         try:
             num = int(c)
             rnuml.append(num)
         except ValueError:
             pass
         rstr = rstr[2:]
     rnuml = map(lambda x: 97+x/4, rnuml)
     rnumc = map(chr, rnuml)
     return ''.join(rnumc)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     print gen_rand_string()

(yes I know that this way generated string will not contain 'z' because 
99/4 + 97 = 121 which is 'y')

The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this 
way be considered truly random? (I abstract from not-quite-perfect 
nature of /dev/urandom at the moment; I can always switch to /dev/random 
which is better)


Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:49:12 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:49:12 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm0pr6$85u$1@dough.gmane.org>

AON LAZIO wrote:
> That will be superb

Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=java&l=uk

This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword "Java" appears.


Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csharp&l=uk



What worries me somewhat (although not much) is that after long period 
of solid growth the market can't decide about Python:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=python&l=uk


I learned painfully that in corporate setting merits of a programming 
language do not matter much, it's more like "whatever catches the 
groupthink" at the moment. "Java is good because big ones select Java", 
"static typing is good because compiler catches programmer's errors" 
(this one is particularly appealing to managers I found), etc.

Although all my "internal use" tools are written in Python, there's no 
way I could convince managers to use Python as the main application 
devel language.

This, however, is not of itself a problem: as long as language is lively 
and has at least a few percent of programmers using it -- which is 
important for existence of libraries, not much more -- there's no 
problem for people who want to get ahead of competition / waste less 
time by using advanced programming langauges. Frankly, I have yet to 
encounter a problem for which either a sizable Python extension or 
bindings to a popular library wouldn't exist. This in itself is a 
hallmark of a language being "enough of mainstream to actually matter in 
practice".

This I find quite insightful: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html



Regards,
mk





From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:51:42 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:51:42 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm0pvs$85u$2@dough.gmane.org>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
>> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
> 
> That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
> supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?

Well it looks like it is at least stabilized:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=php&l=uk

I find job offers to be rather good index of the extent to which the 
language is actually used, and this is what this index is based on 
(percentage of job offers with the keyword "php" in them).

Regards,
mk



From anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:59:40 2010
From: anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com (Anh Hai Trinh)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:59:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<hlvr2l$au1$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <fc1893b7-0b52-443a-a48c-e04c968bfc20@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 1:03?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>
> Uhm, Paganini...
>
> As I understand it he invented the "destroy your instruments on stage". :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf (off-topic)

You probably meant Franz Liszt, who regularly broke piano strings.
Paganini was also a "rock-star" virtuoso but he did not destroy any
Guarnerius or Stradivarius violins in his possession (at least not to
anyone's knowledge :)

As for functional programming, different people take it to mean
different things. For some, simply using first-class functions
qualifies as functional programming.  Others require their functions
to be pure so that their call graphs can be automatically reduced and
their results can be lazily evaluated.  If you takes the former view,
most Python programmers already do functional programming :p

--aht


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:00:18 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:00:18 +0100
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hm0qfv$85u$3@dough.gmane.org>

Giorgos Tzampanakis wrote:
> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a  
> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for 
> me. I want to use Python for that. Are there any libraries that 
> can help me with the parsing of the assembly code?

I'm not sure about your field of application (never done anything like 
that), but I found pyparsing highly usable.

Regards,
mk



From sccolbert at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:06:31 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:31 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <4B83C265.2090802@googlemail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B83C265.2090802@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002230706i29a9816eu8eb75369a2025b92@mail.gmail.com>

Do you have gtk and PyGTK installed? Sounds like a missing dependency to me.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Alan Harris-Reid <
aharrisreid at googlemail.com> wrote:

> gorauskas wrote:
>
>> I installed it on a Windows 7 machine with CPython 2.6.4 and I get the
>> following error:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "dreampie.py", line 3, in <module>
>>  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 73, in <module>
>>  File "dreampielib\gui\load_pygtk.pyc", line 49, in load_pygtk
>> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
>>
>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks,  JGG
>>
> And I installed it on WinXP sp3 and Python 3.1 - when launched a window
> flashes before my eyes, then disappears!  Has the installation package been
> checked for all common Windows versions?
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Feb 23 10:10:50 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:10:50 +0000
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm0r5n$1ak$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Actually I am still waiting for Java to be mainstream :-)
You could say it is popular, which it is without doubt but in my opinion 
after C handed over it's pseudo de facto standard (mostly because a lot 
of OS'es are written in it) nobody else has had enough momenta to reach 
for that crown.

Actually I quite like the soup of languages these days, what amuses me 
though, that Python seems to emerge as the de facto glue language to 
bind them all :-)

-- 
mph


From anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:14:16 2010
From: anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com (Anh Hai Trinh)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:14:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1> 
	<hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <da970fce-bd6b-4eb3-bb66-3ca52cc0fd4a@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 10:08?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>
> Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself as the assembler.
> Call routines in your library to output the code. That way you have a
> language more powerful than any assembler.
>
> See <http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8> for an example.

SyntaxError: Non-matching "#end if" in crosscode8.py:345


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb 23 10:29:44 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:29:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-23, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
> Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>
> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
> posts to this list?

I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
and all but one of the mailing lists I read.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm wearing PAMPERS!!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb 23 10:31:12 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-23, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-02-23, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
>> Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>>
>> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
>> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
>> posts to this list?
>
> I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
> and all but one of the mailing lists I read.

Wait, I misread the posting.  I block everything from
google.groups, not everything from gmail.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I have accepted
                                  at               Provolone into my life!
                               visi.com            


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:38:28 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:38:28 +0100
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm0sni$jrv$1@dough.gmane.org>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>>>     Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
>>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
>>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
>>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
>>> carry through to the cache for the code.
>>     That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
>> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
>> Python is not.

> Of course.  Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
> to call exec() or the equivalent.

> It works fine if you use os.fork().

What about just using subprocess module to run system commands in worker 
threads? Is this likely to have problems?

Regards,
mk




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:39:11 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:39:11 +0100
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
In-Reply-To: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002230739s4fbe232dnd6311ccea5b5ff75@mail.gmail.com>

> I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test
> into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.someclass
>
>     def test_spam(self):
>         """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
>         self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.function
>
>     def test_foo(self):
>         self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
>
> The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not
> a standalone function, and I get errors like:
>
> TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
>
> The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this
> class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I
> don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the
> function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather
> than just one.

Isn't staticmethod the trick you need?

HTH,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From aharrisreid at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:39:44 2010
From: aharrisreid at googlemail.com (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:39:44 +0000
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002230706i29a9816eu8eb75369a2025b92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	
	<1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	
	<4B83C265.2090802@googlemail.com>
	<7f014ea61002230706i29a9816eu8eb75369a2025b92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B83F6C0.9010807@googlemail.com>

Chris Colbert wrote:
> Do you have gtk and PyGTK installed? Sounds like a missing dependency 
> to me.
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Alan Harris-Reid 
> <aharrisreid at googlemail.com <mailto:aharrisreid at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>     gorauskas wrote:
>
>         I installed it on a Windows 7 machine with CPython 2.6.4 and I
>         get the
>         following error:
>
>         Traceback (most recent call last):
>          File "dreampie.py", line 3, in <module>
>          File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 73, in <module>
>          File "dreampielib\gui\load_pygtk.pyc", line 49, in load_pygtk
>         ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not
>         be found.
>
>         What am I doing wrong?
>
>         Thanks,  JGG
>
>     And I installed it on WinXP sp3 and Python 3.1 - when launched a
>     window flashes before my eyes, then disappears!  Has the
>     installation package been checked for all common Windows versions?
>
>     Regards,
>     Alan
>
>     -- 
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
Hi Chris, thanks for the reply,

That explains it.  No, I don't have gtk installed - I wasn't aware of 
that dependency.

Regards,
Alan
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From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 10:49:07 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:49:07 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
Message-ID: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets 
from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to 
be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:59:22 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:59:22 +0100
Subject: AKKA vs Python
Message-ID: <hm0tun$oap$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

Is there smth like AKKA in Python?

http://akkasource.org/

Regards,
mk



From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb 23 11:09:54 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:09:54 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:12 +0000 (UTC)
Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
> >> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
> >> posts to this list?
> >
> > I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
> > and all but one of the mailing lists I read.
> 
> Wait, I misread the posting.  I block everything from
> google.groups, not everything from gmail.

Yes, I did that a long time ago as well.  But now there seems to be
more and more actual spam coming from gmail.com itself.  It may just be
a minor blip on the spam graph but I'm keeping my eye on it.

Most mailing lists that I am on are pretty good at filtering spam
before it gets to the list.  The only spam I ever see on my NetBSD
lists are the ones that I moderate and I block them before anyone else
sees them.  A little more pain for me in return for a lot less pain for
everyone else.  I guess that's not possible on a list that is gatewayed
to UseNet like this one is.

Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb 23 11:18:07 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:18:07 -0800
Subject: AKKA vs Python
In-Reply-To: <hm0tun$oap$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <hm0tun$oap$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002230818t708262f1v3b63eebf12684d67@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:59 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Is there smth like AKKA in Python?
>
> http://akkasource.org/

Minus the "distributed" part, yes; there are a few implementations of
actors for Python:
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~jwa/stage/
http://osl.cs.uiuc.edu/parley/
http://candygram.sourceforge.net/candygram.html

It's a variant on the vanilla actor model, but I've heard good buzz about:
http://www.kamaelia.org/

(Unless it wasn't already clear, I haven't used any of these myself.)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From rpdooling at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 11:26:18 2010
From: rpdooling at gmail.com (Rick Dooling)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

No telling what Windows will do. :)

I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
paths instead and remove all doubt.

http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html

RD


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 11:27:49 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:27:49 -0600
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
In-Reply-To: <166845.21850.qm@web58906.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<166845.21850.qm@web58906.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <hm0vm5$g5$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-22 21:47 PM, Ed Keith wrote:
>> Subject: Re: Writing an assembler in Python
>> Giorgos
>> Tzampanakis wrote:
>>
>>> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I
>> want to have a
>>> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine
>> code for
>>> me.
>>
>> Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself
>> as the assembler.
>> Call routines in your library to output the code. That way
>> you have a
>> language more powerful than any assembler.
>>
>> See<http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8>  for
>> an example.
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
> Not a bad idea, has anyone tried this for x86 machine code?

http://www.corepy.org/

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 11:30:39 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:30:39 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm0r5n$1ak$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0r5n$1ak$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <0C0B45B8-BF31-4759-B2AE-C443D065FC17@gmail.com>


On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:

> Actually I am still waiting for Java to be mainstream :-)
> You could say it is popular, which it is without doubt but in my opinion after C handed over it's pseudo de facto standard (mostly because a lot of OS'es are written in it) nobody else has had enough momenta to reach for that crown.
> 
> Actually I quite like the soup of languages these days, what amuses me though, that Python seems to emerge as the de facto glue language to bind them all :-)

I'm sure there's a Tolkien 1-liner in there somewhere ;-).

S



From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 11:47:18 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:47:18 -0400
Subject: SMTPServerDisconnected
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
I think the last main thing I have to do on my server is get a running email
server up. Now that I've nuked sendmail and given up on postfix, I'm back to
trying to get qmail up and running again. Of course, there are no active
discussion lists for *any* email server, so I have to turn here for help.
While running a script that worked perfectly well on another server to send
an email, I get the following error:

A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.

A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.

 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
   52 </head>
   53 <body>'''
   54 my_mail()
   55 print '''
   56 </body>
my_mail = <function my_mail>
 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
   33       to_address = ourEmail1,
   34       subject = subject,
   35       message = message
   36   ).send()
   37   Email(
message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
  344         smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
  345         if self.smtp_server:
  346             smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
  347         else:
  348             smtp.connect()
smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect of
<smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>, self.smtp_server
= 'localhost'
 /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
host='localhost', port=25)
  305         if not self.sock:
  306             raise socket.error, msg
  307         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
  308         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
  309         return (code, msg)
code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
<smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
<smtplib.SMTP instance>>
 /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>)
  349             if line == '':
  350                 self.close()
  351                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection unexpectedly
closed")
  352             if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
repr(line)
  353             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
      args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)

I cannot find the qmail logs. I assumed they'd be in either
/var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send
or
/var/qmail/supervise/qmail-smtpd
but I find no logs there.


[SSH] Protocol Version 2 (OpenSSH_4.3)
[SSH] Cipher: aes128-cbc

Logged in (password)

Last login: Tue Feb 23 05:24:00 2010 from 66.248.168.67
[beno at 13gems ~]$ su
Password:
[root at 13gems beno]# man netstat
[root at 13gems beno]# netstat
Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address               Foreign Address
State
getnameinfo failed
tcp        0    268 nrelectric.com:ssh          [UNKNOWN]:61912
ESTABLISHED
Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
Proto RefCnt Flags       Type       State         I-Node Path
unix  7      [ ]         DGRAM                    10842  /dev/log
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10370
 @/org/kernel/udev/udevd
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077731
unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077679
unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077678
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077675
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11556
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11511
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10990
[root at 13gems beno]#


How do I trouble-shoot this?
TIA,
beno

-- 
The Logos has come to bear
http://logos.13gems.com/
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From m.91ahesh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:04:13 2010
From: m.91ahesh at gmail.com (ranga...............)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:04:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Free check of $253 with your name.
Message-ID: <0e5a7c60-e3da-4f74-8549-cc5885d1f309@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Just open below site and select any one of the four red color links
present below sponsors and enter your payename and address where to
get your check.

The secret link is http://highpayingkeywordsofadsense.blogspot.com/2010/01/google-yahoo-msn-adsense-high-paying_29.html


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 13:12:22 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:12:22 -0800
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
In-Reply-To: <574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm15qd$764$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/23/2010 8:26 AM, Rick Dooling wrote:
> No telling what Windows will do. :)
>
> I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
> tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
> paths instead and remove all doubt.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html
>
> RD
You may be right. The actual 300 line program just reads the folder 
without specifying any path. I'm not that familiar with os path, but 
have seen it used.


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:14:38 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:14:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On 23 feb, 10:54, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>
> Fascism is coming fastly to Internet because is the only communication
> way that governements (managed by the bank and multinationals) cann't
> control
>
> http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/21/acta-internet-enforc.html

This is something that affects to all programmers:

"This calls on all parties to ensure that "third party liability" (the
idea that ISPs, web-hosts, application developers, mobile carriers,
universities, apartment buildings, and other "third parties" to
infringement are sometimes liable for their users' copyright
infringements) is on the books in their countries. It doesn't spell
out what that liability should be, beyond "knowingly and materially
aiding" an infringement"

http://craphound.com/acta_digital_chapter-1.pdf


From nevillednz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:24:08 2010
From: nevillednz at gmail.com (NevilleDNZ)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:24:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ky8wte.705@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <9e4f092e-647e-4330-b2ad-e3982b4c8f2c@t9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi Groetjes Albert,

I spotted your comment - re: pointers
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/5c1e25919b6a74bf

On Feb 22, 11:44 pm, Albert van der Horst <alb... at spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
wrote:
(I once studied algol 68, and never got confused about these
> subjects anymore, recommended.)

Having used Algol68, then switching to C to discover "*" for manual
dereferencing I immediately wanted to be back using A68 again, but
alas...  Then when I switched to C++ I immediately understood the
"Zen" of C++'s "&"... but still wanted to switch back to A68.  Was
there ever a version with "Objects"... I saw a version with "Areas"
but have no idea what an "Area" is.

@Albert: Given the domain name "xs4all" in your email address I am
sure YOU have spotted: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jmvdveer/algol.html by
Marcel

Also: I invite you to join one of the below groups (my .sig below) and
deposit some of your Algol68 impressions....

There is also a chrestomathy site http://rosettacode.org/wiki/ALGOL_68
where you can pick out an code sample unimplemented in Algol68 and
torture test your Algol68 memories.  (Be warned: Most of the easy
samples are done)

Keep in touch
NevilleDNZ
--
For Algol68-user mailinglist with archives & subscription:
* https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/algol68-user
To download Linux's Algol68 Compiler, Interpreter & Runtime:
* http://sourceforge.net/projects/algol68
Join the linkedin.com's Algol68 group, follow:
* http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2333923


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Tue Feb 23 13:25:24 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:25:24 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
Message-ID: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach in 
this.

In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in 
Python:

 >>> def a():
	pass
 >>> def a(x):
	pass
 >>> a()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
     a()
TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
Is there any better Idom than:

 >>> def a(x=None):
	if x is None:
		pass
	else:
		pass

?

Thanks,
Michael


From nagle at animats.com  Tue Feb 23 13:35:38 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:35:38 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b841bf1$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

mk wrote:
> sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>>>>     Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading 
>>>>> multiple
>>>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
>>>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
>>>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
>>>> carry through to the cache for the code.
>>>     That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
>>> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
>>> Python is not.
> 
>> Of course.  Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
>> to call exec() or the equivalent.
> 
>> It works fine if you use os.fork().
> 
> What about just using subprocess module to run system commands in worker 
> threads? Is this likely to have problems?
> 
> Regards,
> mk

    The discussion above was about using "fork" to avoid duplicating the
entire Python environment for each subprocess.  If you use the subprocess
module, you load a new program, so you don't get much memory sharing.
This increases the number of cache misses, which is a major bottleneck
in many-CPU systems with shared caches.

    The issue being discussed was scaling Python for CPUs with many cores.
With Intel shipping 4 cores/8 hyperthread CPUs, the 6/12 part working,
and the 8/16 part coming along, this is more than a theoretical
issue.

				John Nagle


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:49:53 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:49:53 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002231049p5ba6a88ci3ec3521f8cf73f27@mail.gmail.com>

> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in
> Python:
>
>  >>> def a():
> 	pass
>  >>> def a(x):
> 	pass
>  >>> a()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
>      a()
> TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
>
>  >>> def a(x=None):
> 	if x is None:
> 		pass
> 	else:
> 		pass

This is generally considered to be the pythonic idiom for what you describe.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From cgrebeld at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:49:59 2010
From: cgrebeld at gmail.com (chris grebeldinger)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:49:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> 
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <06b6fb1b-f3ee-498c-ad8b-5557eb711a3d@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

Have you tried opening file explorer in administrative mode before
performing the copy?  I think if there isn't sufficient permissions,
it does something weird like that.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb 23 13:56:44 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:56:44 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<06b6fb1b-f3ee-498c-ad8b-5557eb711a3d@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm18db$l19$1@speranza.aioe.org>

chris grebeldinger wrote:
> Have you tried opening file explorer in administrative mode before
> performing the copy?  I think if there isn't sufficient permissions,
> it does something weird like that.

No


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Feb 23 13:58:59 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4B842573.2010706@optimum.net>

On 2/23/2010 1:25 PM, Michael Rudolf wrote:
> Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach in
> this.
>
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in
> Python:
>
>  >>> def a():
> pass
>  >>> def a(x):
> pass
>  >>> a()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
> a()
> TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
>
>  >>> def a(x=None):
> if x is None:
> pass
> else:
> pass
>

Consider this:

#------------------
def myfunc(*arglist):
     if not arglist:
         print "no arguments"
         return
     for i, arg in enumerate(arglist):
         print "Argument %d is a %s, with value:" % (i, type(arg)),
         print arg


myfunc()
print "---"
myfunc(1)
print "---"
myfunc(2, "three", [4, 5,6])
#------------------

program output:

no arguments
---
Argument 0 is a <type 'int'>, with value: 1
---
Argument 0 is a <type 'int'>, with value: 2
Argument 1 is a <type 'str'>, with value: three
Argument 2 is a <type 'list'>, with value: [4, 5, 6]


HTH,
John


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb 23 14:08:16 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:08:16 +1300
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm1930$mgs$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Rick Dooling wrote:
> No telling what Windows will do. :)

It isn't useful to respond to a serious question with OS bigotry.


From timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:09:10 2010
From: timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com (Timothy N. Tsvetkov)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:09:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b3743d50-c0cf-4a4b-953c-d709194284f8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 10:41?pm, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
> > have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
>
> >http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de...
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Casey
>
> Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
> linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
> block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
> statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
> point?"
>
> I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
> expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
> in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
> statements, for crying out loud use a def? And who needs those "do-
> end" blocks anyway, trying to turn Python into Pascal?

I think there are some nice use-cases for anonymous functions /
blocks. First, mentioned above, is pretty DSL. And the second is using
blocks in map/reduce functions. Yes, you can pass there a function but
I believe that in most situations it is more readable to pass a
multiline anonymous function / block than defined somewhere function
written only for a single map/reduce operation. And often when you use
reduce it is a bit more complicated then just one line function.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb 23 14:14:04 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:14:04 +1300
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hm15qd$764$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm19ds$mv5$1@speranza.aioe.org>

W. eWatson wrote:
> On 2/23/2010 8:26 AM, Rick Dooling wrote:
>> No telling what Windows will do. :)
>>
>> I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
>> tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
>> paths instead and remove all doubt.
>>
>> http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html
>>
>> RD
> You may be right. The actual 300 line program just reads the folder 
> without specifying any path. I'm not that familiar with os path, but 
> have seen it used.

How do you invoke the program?  Do you use a Command Prompt window?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 14:19:59 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:19:59 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
> I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator
> is not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:...
> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated
> this way be considered truly random? (I abstract from
> not-quite-perfect nature of /dev/urandom at the moment; I can always
> switch to /dev/random which is better)

urandom is fine and the entropy loss from the numeric conversions and
eliminating 'z' in that code before you get letters out is not too bad.
The code is pretty ugly.  The main problem is you end up with a password
that's usually 5 letters but sometimes just 4 or fewer.  Passwords that
short are vulnerable to dictionary attacks.  Longer passwords made from
random letters are difficult to remember.

I find it's most practical to use a few random words (chosen from a word
list like /usr/dict/words) rather than random letters.  Words are easier
to remember and type.

You might look at the site www.diceware.com for an approach to this,
which you can implement with a program.  The docs there are pretty
thoughtful and may help you understand the relevant issues.


From CORY.L.NARDIN at saic.com  Tue Feb 23 14:22:16 2010
From: CORY.L.NARDIN at saic.com (Nardin, Cory L.)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:22:16 -0800
Subject: Python won't run
In-Reply-To: <46D34AB9-9DC7-47E9-8288-2B5DFDB55BB8@activestate.com>
References: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502AC479A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
	<46D34AB9-9DC7-47E9-8288-2B5DFDB55BB8@activestate.com>
Message-ID: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502B30AFE@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Thanks so much for that suggestion.  I used the tool and found two
missing libraries: MSVCR90.DLL and DWMAPI.DLL.  I located and copied the
first library to my python directory (and resolved that dependency), but
I am still missing the other.  I have done a Google search and found
that DWMAPI is a Vista library.  I am have XP, so I am not sure why it
is a required dependency?  I made sure that I have all the MS updates
(presumably MS would include a new library in an update if it became a
required library) and that did not solve the problem.  Is this a bug or
should I have that library on my computer and the fact that it isn't
there is the sign of some other problem?

 

Thanks

Cory

 

________________________________

From: Sridhar Ratnakumar [mailto:sridharr at activestate.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:54 AM
To: Nardin, Cory L.
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python won't run

 

Have you tried using  <http://dependencywalker.com/> 
http://dependencywalker.com/ ?

 

-srid

 

On 2010-02-18, at 1:00 PM, Nardin, Cory L. wrote:





Quickly, I have a Mac Intel with Windows XP installed.  Tried installing
Python 2.6.4 from the binary and also ActivePython 2.6.4.10.  Both
installations acted the same.  There seemed to be no problems during
installation (used default options), but when I try to run Python I get
an error message: "This application has failed to start because the
application configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application
may fix this problem."

 

Of course I searched on that error and it seems to be related to a MS
library.  In a few different places it was recommended to install the MS
Visual Studio redistributable package, which I did with no change in
outcome.  I really have no idea what to do.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Cory

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

 

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From olof.bjarnason at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:30:03 2010
From: olof.bjarnason at gmail.com (Olof Bjarnason)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:30:03 +0100
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
In-Reply-To: <6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3dfe1d1002231130v6b65bbcaoa6e2943f6d653839@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/23 Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com>:
> On 23 feb, 10:54, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>>
>> Fascism is coming fastly to Internet because is the only communication
>> way that governements (managed by the bank and multinationals) cann't
>> control
>>
>> http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/21/acta-internet-enforc.html
>
> This is something that affects to all programmers:
>
> "This calls on all parties to ensure that "third party liability" (the
> idea that ISPs, web-hosts, application developers, mobile carriers,
> universities, apartment buildings, and other "third parties" to
> infringement are sometimes liable for their users' copyright
> infringements) is on the books in their countries. It doesn't spell
> out what that liability should be, beyond "knowingly and materially
> aiding" an infringement"
>
> http://craphound.com/acta_digital_chapter-1.pdf
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

<politics>

Even if this is "Off Topic" (which I think it really isn't in any open
source / free software-oriented mailing list), I want to agree with
Joan.

ACTA is a *real* problem that we must fend politically. Here is a blog
post I wrote about the problem with making ISPs liable for what their
users communicate:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Folofb.wordpress.com%2F&sl=sv&tl=en
(sorry for the bad quality google translation -- this is an important topic!)

Note the name of the important principle: "Mere conduit".

</politics>

-- 
http://olofb.wordpress.com


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:36:23 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>
	<4b82dc5a$0$22916$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <2e510063-7fc0-4cfc-8fd2-53214f1b6c4d@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 8:32?pm, Hans Mulder <han... at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> G?nther Dietrich wrote:
> > vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> >> I've tried:
>
> >> print format(.7,'%%')
> >> .7.format('%%')
>
> >> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...
>
> > Did you try this:
>
> >>>> print('%d%%' % (0.7 * 100))
> > 70%
>
> That method will always round down; TomF's method will round to
> the nearest whole number:
>
> ?>>> print "%d%%" % (0.698 * 100)
> 69%
> ?>>> print "{0:.0%}".format(.698)
> 70%
>
> Only the OP knows which one is more appropriate for his use case.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> -- HansM

Great!!!

Thank you


From monkey at joemoney.net  Tue Feb 23 14:42:05 2010
From: monkey at joemoney.net (monkeys paw)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:42:05 -0500
Subject: python dowload
Message-ID: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>

I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
with the write operation?

import urllib2
url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
     a.write(line)


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:59:23 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:59:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 7:19?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:

> The code is pretty ugly. ?The main problem is you end up with a password
> that's usually 5 letters but sometimes just 4 or fewer. ?

Well I didn't write the whole thing here, in actual use I'd write a
loop repeating the function until I have enough characters and then
I'd select a substring of specified length.

Anything else in the code that is ugly and I should correct?

> You might look at the sitewww.diceware.comfor an approach to this,
> which you can implement with a program. ?The docs there are pretty
> thoughtful and may help you understand the relevant issues.

Thanks. But I would also be grateful for indicating what is wrong/ugly
in my code.

Regards,
mk




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:04:02 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:04:02 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hm1cbi$k7u$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 13:19 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:

> I find it's most practical to use a few random words (chosen from a word
> list like /usr/dict/words) rather than random letters.  Words are easier
> to remember and type.
>
> You might look at the site www.diceware.com for an approach to this,
> which you can implement with a program.  The docs there are pretty
> thoughtful and may help you understand the relevant issues.

I like RFC 1751 for this:

http://gitweb.pycrypto.org/?p=crypto/pycrypto-2.x.git;a=blob;f=lib/Crypto/Util/RFC1751.py;h=1c98a212c22066adabfee521b495eeb4f9d7232b;hb=HEAD

Shortened URL:

http://tr.im/Pv9B

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From gd_usenet at spamfence.net  Tue Feb 23 15:09:38 2010
From: gd_usenet at spamfence.net (=?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:09:38 +0100
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>
	<4b82dc5a$0$22916$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <29pd57-qhp.ln1@spamfence.net>

Hans Mulder <hansmu at xs4all.nl> wrote:

>> Did you try this:
>> 
>>>>> print('%d%%' % (0.7 * 100))
>> 70%
>
>That method will always round down; TomF's method will round to
>the nearest whole number:
>
> >>> print "%d%%" % (0.698 * 100)
>69%
> >>> print "{0:.0%}".format(.698)
>70%

It was intended as a hint to this way of formatting. He could also try:

>>> print('%.0f%%' % (0.698 * 100))
70%



Best regards,

G?nther


From john at castleamber.com  Tue Feb 23 15:09:50 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:09:50 -0600
Subject: python dowload
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <87635naf3l.fsf@castleamber.com>

monkeys paw <monkey at joemoney.net> writes:

> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
>
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>     a.write(line)

pdf is /not/ text. You're processing it like it's a text file (and
storing it like it's text, which on Windows is most likely a no no).

import urllib2

url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
response = urllib2.urlopen(url)
fh = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
fh.write(response.read())
fh.close()
response.close()

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb 23 15:16:25 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:16:25 -0500
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
In-Reply-To: <c3dfe1d1002231130v6b65bbcaoa6e2943f6d653839@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<c3dfe1d1002231130v6b65bbcaoa6e2943f6d653839@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100223151625.50fde3cb.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:30:03 +0100
Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason at gmail.com> wrote:
> Even if this is "Off Topic" (which I think it really isn't in any open
> source / free software-oriented mailing list), I want to agree with
> Joan.

It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic.  So
what if some members have an interest?  We have interest in a lot of
things.  We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
but questions about hardware are also off topic.

Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
of discussions they want to be involved in.  By spamming the group this
way you take away that freedom of choice.  It's ironic when it is done
in the name of freedom.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Feb 23 15:17:11 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:17:11 -0600
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8437C7.2030408@tim.thechases.com>

monkeys paw wrote:
> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
> 
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')

Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?

> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>      a.write(line)

I also don't know if this "for line...a.write(line)" loop is 
doing newline translation.  If it's a binary file, you should use 
.read() (perhaps with a modest-sized block-size, writing it in a 
loop if the file can end up being large.)

-tkc




From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:17:19 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:17:19 -0500
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <16651e81002231217s297dc93avdaadbc51716ca098@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:42 PM, monkeys paw <monkey at joemoney.net> wrote:
> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
>
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
> ? ?a.write(line)

Two guesses:

First, you need to call a.close() when you're done writing to the file.

This will happen automatically when you have no more references to the
file, but I'm guessing that you're running this code in IDLE or some
other IDE, and a is still a valid reference to the file after you run
that snippet.

Second, you're treating the pdf file as text (you're assuming it has
lines, you're not writing the file in binary mode, etc.).  I don't
know if that's correct for a pdf file.  I would do something like this
instead:

Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
IDLE 2.6.4

>>> import urllib2
>>> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
>>> a = open('C:/test.pdf', 'wb')
>>> data = urllib2.urlopen(url).read()
>>> a.write(data)
>>> a.close()

That seems to works for me, in that it downloads a 16 page pdf
document, and that document opens without error or any other obvious
problems.

-- 
Jerry


From drobinow at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:20:54 2010
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:20:54 -0500
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f1002231220uf488e59pc0b0d02c987ebc33@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:42 PM, monkeys paw <monkey at joemoney.net> wrote:
> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
>
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
> ? ?a.write(line)

If you're running Windows, try
  a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')

[Works for me]


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:22:39 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:39 -0500
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <72DB116B-19DC-4BDB-A009-C80A3CE28061@gmail.com>


On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:42 PM, monkeys paw wrote:

> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
> 
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')

Try 'wb', just in case.

S



> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>    a.write(line)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:28:53 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:58:53 +0530
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <4B8437C7.2030408@tim.thechases.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com> 
	<4B8437C7.2030408@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002231228j62b4ebacxef5966864769706e@mail.gmail.com>

PyPdf/pdfminer library will be of help

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:47 AM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

> monkeys paw wrote:
>
>> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
>> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
>> with the write operation?
>>
>> import urllib2
>> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
>> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
>>
>
> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?
>
>
>  for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>>     a.write(line)
>>
>
> I also don't know if this "for line...a.write(line)" loop is doing newline
> translation.  If it's a binary file, you should use .read() (perhaps with a
> modest-sized block-size, writing it in a loop if the file can end up being
> large.)
>
> -tkc
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:35:04 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:35:04 +0000
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <m2hbp7herr.fsf@googlemail.com>

Michael Rudolf <spamfresser at ch3ka.de> writes:

> Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach
> in this.
>
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in
> Python:
>
>>>> def a():
> 	pass
>>>> def a(x):
> 	pass
>>>> a()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
>     a()
> TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
>
>>>> def a(x=None):
> 	if x is None:
> 		pass
> 	else:
> 		pass
>

There are a number of frameworks for function overloading out there.  FWIW,
there is actually one in the Python sandbox (for Python 3):

http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/Overload3K/

-- 
Arnaud



From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid  Tue Feb 23 15:35:53 2010
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:35:53 +0100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <4b843c2b$0$17860$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>

Hi!

> Symbolic links are available in NTFS starting with Windows Vista.

No.
Hardlink come with NTFS, and already exists in W2K (and NT with specifics utilities).

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:49:25 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:49:25 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm1f0m$v1a$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 13:59 PM, mk wrote:
> On Feb 23, 7:19 pm, Paul Rubin<no.em... at nospam.invalid>  wrote:
>
>> The code is pretty ugly.  The main problem is you end up with a password
>> that's usually 5 letters but sometimes just 4 or fewer.
>
> Well I didn't write the whole thing here, in actual use I'd write a
> loop repeating the function until I have enough characters and then
> I'd select a substring of specified length.
>
> Anything else in the code that is ugly and I should correct?

I would recommend using random.SystemRandom.choice() on a sequence of acceptable 
characters. E.g. (untested)

import random
import string


characters = string.letters + string.digits + '~!@#$%^&*()-+=,;./\?><|'
# ... or whatever.

def gen_rand_string(length):
     prng = random.SystemRandom()
     chars = []
     for i in range(length):
         chars.append(prng.choice(characters))
     return ''.join(chars)

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:53:14 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:53:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
Message-ID: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have two dicts

n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
v={1,3,7}

and I'd like to have

a=1
m=3
p=7

that is, creating some variables.

How can I do this?


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb 23 15:53:51 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:53:51 -0800
Subject: SMTPServerDisconnected
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi;
> I think the last main thing I have to do on my server is get a running email
> server up. Now that I've nuked sendmail and given up on postfix, I'm back to
> trying to get qmail up and running again. Of course, there are no active
> discussion lists for *any* email server, so I have to turn here for help.
> While running a script that worked perfectly well on another server to send
> an email, I get the following error:
> A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> ?/var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
> ?? 52 </head>
> ?? 53 <body>'''
> ?? 54 my_mail()
> ?? 55 print '''
> ?? 56 </body>
> my_mail = <function my_mail>
> ?/var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
> ?? 33 ? ? ? to_address = ourEmail1,
> ?? 34 ? ? ? subject = subject,
> ?? 35 ? ? ? message = message
> ?? 36 ? ).send()
> ?? 37 ? Email(
> message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
> ?/var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
> send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
> ??344 ? ? ? ? smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
> ??345 ? ? ? ? if self.smtp_server:
> ??346 ? ? ? ? ? ? smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
> ??347 ? ? ? ? else:
> ??348 ? ? ? ? ? ? smtp.connect()
> smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect of
> <smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>, self.smtp_server
> = 'localhost'
> ?/usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
> host='localhost', port=25)
> ??305 ? ? ? ? if not self.sock:
> ??306 ? ? ? ? ? ? raise socket.error, msg
> ??307 ? ? ? ? (code, msg) = self.getreply()
> ??308 ? ? ? ? if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
> ??309 ? ? ? ? return (code, msg)
> code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
> <smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
> <smtplib.SMTP instance>>
> ?/usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>)
> ??349 ? ? ? ? ? ? if line == '':
> ??350 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.close()
> ??351 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection unexpectedly
> closed")
> ??352 ? ? ? ? ? ? if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
> repr(line)
> ??353 ? ? ? ? ? ? resp.append(line[4:].strip())
> global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
> SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
> ?? ? ?args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)
> I cannot find the qmail logs. I assumed they'd be in either
> /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send
> or
> /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-smtpd
> but I find no logs there.
>
> [SSH] Protocol Version 2 (OpenSSH_4.3)
> [SSH] Cipher: aes128-cbc
> Logged in (password)
> Last login: Tue Feb 23 05:24:00 2010 from 66.248.168.67
> [beno at 13gems ~]$ su
> Password:
> [root at 13gems beno]# man netstat
> [root at 13gems beno]# netstat
> Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
> Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Foreign Address
> State
> getnameinfo failed
> tcp ? ? ? ?0 ? ?268 nrelectric.com:ssh ? ? ? ? ?[UNKNOWN]:61912
> ESTABLISHED
> Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
> Proto RefCnt Flags ? ? ? Type ? ? ? State ? ? ? ? I-Node Path
> unix ?7 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10842 ?/dev/log
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10370
> ?@/org/kernel/udev/udevd
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?6077731
> unix ?3 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? STREAM ? ? CONNECTED ? ? 6077679
> unix ?3 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? STREAM ? ? CONNECTED ? ? 6077678
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?6077675
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?11556
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?11511
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10990
> [root at 13gems beno]#
>
> How do I trouble-shoot this?

Try connecting to the port that is supposed to accept mail messages
via telnet and issue a few SMTP commands.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 16:00:02 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:00:02 -0800
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
In-Reply-To: <hm19ds$mv5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hm15qd$764$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm19ds$mv5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm1fkm$47a$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/23/2010 11:14 AM, Gib Bogle wrote:
> W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 2/23/2010 8:26 AM, Rick Dooling wrote:
>>> No telling what Windows will do. :)
>>>
>>> I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
>>> tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
>>> paths instead and remove all doubt.
>>>
>>> http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html
>>>
>>> RD
>> You may be right. The actual 300 line program just reads the folder
>> without specifying any path. I'm not that familiar with os path, but
>> have seen it used.
>
> How do you invoke the program? Do you use a Command Prompt window?
IDLE, but I'm prett sure I tried it (300 lines) with Cprompt.


From guglgrupe at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 16:02:13 2010
From: guglgrupe at yahoo.com (Milenko Kindl)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:02:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Milenko Kindl and America's Worst French Fries
Message-ID: <fcb867fb-c922-43db-99e8-39f8aeb0340e@o8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Milenko Kindl

In spite of the name, French fries are practically an American
birthright. They?re offered as the first choice side dish with nearly
every fast-food and sit-down chain meal available. But here?s the
catch: In a recent study of 7,318 New York City patrons leaving fast
food chains during the lunch hour, researchers learned that combo meals
?meaning meals with sides?averaged 1,100 calories each, which is over
half a day?s allotment. It goes to show: When your regular meals at
these restaurants are already pushing the nutritional envelope, adding
an extra 300 (or more!) empty calories can make for a dietary
disaster.

The authors of the best-selling weight-loss series Eat This, Not That!
and Cook This, Not That! have rounded up three of the worst orders of
fries available at chain restaurants across the country. We?ve also
offered up the surprising winner of the fast food French fry cook-off?
you?ll never believe which restaurant chain produces the healthiest
fried spuds!


Worst Curly Fries
Arby?s Curly Fries (Large)
640 calories
34 g fat (5 g saturated, 0 g trans)
1,460 mg sodium

Arby?s is famous for its curly fries?too bad they?re overloaded with
fat, calories and sodium. When one side dish accounts for nearly three-
quarters of your daily allotment of salt, you know there?s a problem.
As fun as these curli-Qs are, stick to the Homefry variety at Arby?s?
downsizing to a small Curly Fries will still leave you with a 410-
calorie side, which is more than many of Arby?s sandwiches!

Bonus tip: For full nutrition information for all of your favorite
chain restaurants and thousands of foods, download the bestselling Eat
This, Not That! iPhone app. It?s like having your own personal
nutritionist in your pocket at all times, and will help you avoid the
caloric calamities and guide you to the best ways to lose your belly
fast.

Eat This Instead!
Homestyle Fries (Small)
350 calories
15 g fat (2 g saturated)
720 mg sodium


Worst Wedge Fries
Jack in the Box Bacon Cheddar Wedges
715 calories
45 g fat (13 g saturated, 1 g trans)
905 mg sodium

It doesn?t take a nutritionist to identify the hazards of a grease-
soaked, cheese-slathered sack of deep-fried potatoes, but by
appearance alone, nobody could guess what?s really at stake when you
order this side from Jack?s. The American Heart Association recommends
that people cap their trans fat intake at 1 percent of total calories.
For people on a 2,000-calorie diet, that?s about 2 grams per day. See
the problem? Another issue, of course, is the overload in calories?
about one-third your daily allotment!

Bonus tip: Cheese fries are clearly an unhealthy choice. But sometimes
healthy-seeming options are just as dangerous as the obvious diet-
sinkers. For 30 jaw-dropping examples, check out The 30 Worst
Sandwiches in America.

Eat This Instead!
Grilled Chicken Strips (4) with Fire Roasted Salsa
185 calories
2 g fat (0.5 g saturated)
805 mg sodium


Worst Fries for Your Blood Pressure
Dairy Queen Chili Cheese Fries
1,240 calories
71 g fat (28 g saturated, 0.5 g trans)
2,550 milligrams sodium

This one?s a no-brainer: Chili, cheese, fried potatoes. But even a
savvy eater couldn?t possibly anticipate how bad these 3 ingredients
could be when combined by one heavy-handed fast-food company. There?s
as much sodium in this side dish as you?ll find in 15 strips of bacon.
Stick with classic ketchup and recapture nearly a day?s worth of
sodium and 930 calories.

Bonus tip: Save calories, time, and money with our free Eat This, Not
That! newsletter. Sign up today and you?ll get the Eat This, Not That!
guide to shopping once and eating for a week for free!

Eat This Instead!
French Fries (regular)
310 calories
13 g fat (2 g saturated)
640 mg sodium


Worst Regular Order of Fries
Five Guys Fries (large)
1,464 calories
71 g fat (14 g saturated)
213 mg sodium

Unfortunately, Five Guys doesn?t offer anything but fries in the side
department. Your safest bet, of course, is to skip the fries
altogether (you?d be better off adding a second patty to your burger),
but if you can?t bring yourself to eat a burger sans fries, then split
a regular order. That will still add 310 calories to your meal, but it
beats surrendering more than 75% of your day?s calories to a greasy
paper bag.

Bonus tip: Sides account for a third of our combo-meal calories?but
drinks account for a quarter of the total calories we consume each
day! Battle the liquid bulge: Avoid all drinks on this shocking list
of The Worst Drinks in the Supermarket.

Eat This Instead!
Regular Fries (1/2 serving)
310 calories
15 g fat (3 g saturated)
45 mg sodium


Worst Fries in America
Chili?s Texas Cheese Fries w/Jalapeno Ranch
1,920 calories
147 g fat (63 g saturated)
3,580 mg sodium

The only thing that comes close to redeeming this cheesy mound of lard
and grease is the fact that it?s ostensibly meant to be shared with a
few friends. Even so, you?ll collectively be taking in an entire day?s
worth of calories, three days? allotment of saturated fat, and a day
and a half?s allotment of sodium. What?s even scarier, if you can
imagine, is that even if you try to order more sensibly and ask for
the ?half? order of Texas Cheese Fries, you?ll still receive a
disastrous dish that packs in 1,400 calories. There?s one French fries
side dish at Chili?s that?s acceptable, although even in its much-
reduced form, you?d be better off splitting it.

Bonus Tip: See what other Chili?s items made our list of The 20 Worst
Restaurant Foods in America.

Eat This Instead!
Homestyle Fries
380 calories
23 g fat (4 g saturated)
230 mg sodium


Best Fast Food Fries in America
McDonald?s Small French Fries
230 calories
11 g fat (1.5 g saturated)
160 mg sodium

Out of the big three fast food joints (Mickey D?s, Wendy?s, and BK),
you?ll find the least caloric, least salty fries underneath the golden
arches. The key to ordering a smart side dish is portion sizing?and
McDonald?s has that under control.

------------

Follow Men's Health and Women's Health editor Dave Zinczenko on
Twitter. You'll get the best life-changing health, nutrition and
exercise secrets every day.

Check out the cutting-edge guide to fast and easy weight loss, the
brand-new Big Book of Exercises.

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Get more nutrition, health, and fitness secrets from Men's Health:
Subscribe today with this special offer and save 50% off the cover
price.


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 16:10:14 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:10:14 +0000
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2d3zvhd55.fsf@googlemail.com>

vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I have two dicts
>
> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> v={1,3,7}

These are sets, not dicts.

> and I'd like to have
>
> a=1
> m=3
> p=7

As sets are unordered, you may as well have

   a = 3
   m = 7
   p = 1

or any other permutation.  You need some sequences instead.  E.g.

   n = ['a', 'm', 'p']
   v = (1, 3, 7)

Then you can do:

   for name, value in zip(n, v):
       globals()[name] = value

After this the names, 'a', 'm' and 'p' will be bound to the values you
want in the global namespace.  However, it is almost always a bad idea
to do this.  Can you explain why you need to do this?

-- 
Arnaud


From buggsy2 at sdlfkj.com  Tue Feb 23 16:11:52 2010
From: buggsy2 at sdlfkj.com (buggsy2 at sdlfkj.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:11:52 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <u635nr71j.fsf@water.ca.gov>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> I noted that this search box has
> some sort of filter associated with it. Possibly, in my early stages
> of learning to navigate in Win7, I accidentally set the filter.
>
> Comments?

FYI, the only truly reliable and powerful file search utility I've found
for Windows is Agent Ransack (http://download.mythicsoft.com/agentran.exe)


From wuhrrr at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 16:21:36 2010
From: wuhrrr at gmail.com (Hai Vu)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:21:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ea89470b-98b6-4d22-a157-c0e3f2bf250c@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 12:53?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have two dicts
>
> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> v={1,3,7}
>
> and I'd like to have
>
> a=1
> m=3
> p=7
>
> that is, creating some variables.
>
> How can I do this?

I think you meant to use the square brackets [ ] instead of the curly
ones { } to define the list:

>>> n = ['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> v = [3, 5, 7]
>>> for x, y in zip(n, v):
...  exec '%s=%d' % (x, y)
...
>>> a
3
>>> b
5
>>> c
7

---
The key is the use of the exec statement, which executes the strings
"a=3", "b=5", ... as if they are python statements.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 16:23:10 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:23:10 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting [Speaker] Thursday in Mountain View, CA?
In-Reply-To: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm1h03$hul$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/23/2010 7:49 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets
> from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to
> be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?



From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb 23 16:29:01 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:29:01 +1300
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hm15qd$764$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm19ds$mv5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hm1fkm$47a$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm1has$4lo$1@speranza.aioe.org>

W. eWatson wrote:
> On 2/23/2010 11:14 AM, Gib Bogle wrote:
>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2010 8:26 AM, Rick Dooling wrote:
>>>> No telling what Windows will do. :)
>>>>
>>>> I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
>>>> tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
>>>> paths instead and remove all doubt.
>>>>
>>>> http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html
>>>>
>>>> RD
>>> You may be right. The actual 300 line program just reads the folder
>>> without specifying any path. I'm not that familiar with os path, but
>>> have seen it used.
>>
>> How do you invoke the program? Do you use a Command Prompt window?
> IDLE, but I'm prett sure I tried it (300 lines) with Cprompt.

I don't know what you mean by "300 lines".  Have you opened a Command Prompt 
window, changed to the directory where you copied the files, and executed:
python your_prog.py
?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Feb 23 16:31:48 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:31:48 +0000
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B844944.1050203@mrabarnett.plus.com>

vsoler wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have two dicts
> 
> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> v={1,3,7}
> 
Those aren't dicts, they're sets.

> and I'd like to have
> 
> a=1
> m=3
> p=7
> 
> that is, creating some variables.
> 
> How can I do this?

The real question is not how, but why?

Anyway, assuming you want them to be global variables:

     globals().update(dict(zip(n, v)))

On my machine the variables didn't get the correct values because, as I
said, 'n' and 'v' are sets, so the order of the members is arbitrary.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Tue Feb 23 16:40:10 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:40:10 -0500
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <4b843c2b$0$17860$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>
References: <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b843c2b$0$17860$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002231340v7f9b05f0sb945fe72b664e177@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Michel Claveau - MVP
<enleverLesX_XXmcX at xmclavxeaux.com.invalid> wrote:
> Hi!
>
>> Symbolic links are available in NTFS starting with Windows Vista.
>
> No.
> Hardlink come with NTFS, and already exists in W2K (and NT with specifics utilities).
>
> @-salutations
> --
> Michel Claveau
>

And there's a difference between hard links and symbolic links.
Symbolic links were added to NTFS starting with Windows Vista.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365680%28VS.85%29.aspx

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 16:54:36 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:54:36 +0100
Subject: How to transmit a crash report ?
In-Reply-To: <0b222aec-db04-45b7-9f86-e2839ffafc40@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>	<mailman.86.1266892058.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<0b222aec-db04-45b7-9f86-e2839ffafc40@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B844E9C.1000706@gmail.com>

On 23-02-2010 15:21, Thomas wrote:
> On Feb 22, 9:27 pm, MRAB<pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Stef Mientki wrote:
>>      
>>> hello,
>>>        
>>      
>>> in my python desktop applications,
>>> I'ld like to implement a crash reporter.
>>> By redirecting the sys.excepthook,
>>> I can detect a crash and collect the necessary data.
>>> Now I want that my users sends this information to me,
>>> and I can't find a good way of doing this.
>>>        
>>      
>>> The following solutions came into my mind:
>>> (most of my users are on Windows, and the programs are written in Python
>>> 2.6)
>>>        
>>      
>>> 1. mailto:
>>> doesn't work if the the user didn't install a default email client,
>>> or if the user uses a portable email client (that isn't started yet)
>>> Besides this limits the messages to small amounts of data.
>>>        
>>      
>>> 2.other mail options: smtp
>>> AFAIK such a solution needs smtp authorization, and therefor I've to put
>>> my username and password in the desktop application.
>>>        
>> Try reading the documentation for Python's smtplib module.
>>
>> You don't need to provide any password.
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>> 3. http-post
>>> Although post is also limited in size,
>>> I could store information in cookies (don't know yet how), and cookies
>>> are sent parallel to the post message.
>>> On the server site I can use a small php script, that stores the
>>> post-data, cookies and/or send's a (long) email.
>>>        
>>      
>>> are there better options ?- Hide quoted text -
>>>        
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>>      
> Try http://code.activestate.com/recipes/442459/
>    

Apparently there's something terrible wrong on my system, because I do 
need username and password :-(

First, a script that works without username and password.
I guess it works, because the smtp_server is the smtp server of my 
provider, and I'm in that domain of my provider,
so it won't work for a random user of my program.
   if Test ( 4 ) :
     import smtplib
     from email.mime.text      import MIMEText
     from email.mime.multipart import MIMEMultipart

     body     = 'test_body'
     subject  = 'test_subject'
     mail_to  = 's.mientki at ru.nl'
     mail_from = 'stef.mientki at gmail.com'

     msg = MIMEMultipart ( 'alternative' )
     msg [ 'To'      ] = mail_to
     msg [ 'From'    ] = mail_from
     msg [ 'Subject' ] = subject

     part1 = MIMEText ( body, 'plain' )
     msg.attach ( part1 )

     smtp_server = 'mail.upcmail.nl'
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( smtp_server )
     session.sendmail ( mail_from, [mail_to], msg.as_string() )


Using smtp on google , works only if I support username and password:
   if Test ( 5 ) :
     import smtplib
     from email.mime.text      import MIMEText
     from email.mime.multipart import MIMEMultipart

     body     = 'test_body'
     subject  = 'test_subject'
     mail_to  = 's.mientki at ru.nl'
     mail_from = 'stef.mientki at gmail.com'

     msg = MIMEMultipart ( 'alternative' )
     msg [ 'To'      ] = mail_to
     msg [ 'From'    ] = mail_from
     msg [ 'Subject' ] = subject

     part1 = MIMEText ( body, 'plain' )
     msg.attach ( part1 )

     smtp_server = 'smtp.gmail.com'
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( smtp_server, 587 )
     session.ehlo ( mail_from )
     session.starttls ()
     session.ehlo ( mail_from )
     session.login (username, password )
     session.sendmail ( mail_from, [mail_to], msg.as_string() )


And her a number of different tries with localhost / mail :
   if Test ( 6 ) :
     import smtplib
     from email.mime.text      import MIMEText
     from email.mime.multipart import MIMEMultipart

     body     = 'test_body'
     subject  = 'test_subject'
     mail_to  = 's.mientki at ru.nl'
     mail_from = 'stef.mientki at gmail.com'

     msg = MIMEMultipart ( 'alternative' )
     msg [ 'To'      ] = mail_to
     msg [ 'From'    ] = mail_from
     msg [ 'Subject' ] = subject

     part1 = MIMEText ( body, 'plain' )
     msg.attach ( part1 )

     session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'localhost' )
     """
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "D:\Data_Python_25\support\mail_support.py", line 375, in <module>
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( smtp_server )
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 239, in __init__
     (code, msg) = self.connect(host, port)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 295, in connect
     self.sock = self._get_socket(host, port, self.timeout)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 273, in _get_socket
     return socket.create_connection((port, host), timeout)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\socket.py", line 514, in create_connection
     raise error, msg
error: [Errno 10061] No connection could be made because the target 
machine actively refused it
     """
     #session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'localhost', 25 )
     #session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'mail', 25 )
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'mail', 1025 )
     """
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "D:\Data_Python_25\support\mail_support.py", line 377, in <module>
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'mail', 1025 )
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 239, in __init__
     (code, msg) = self.connect(host, port)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 295, in connect
     self.sock = self._get_socket(host, port, self.timeout)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 273, in _get_socket
     return socket.create_connection((port, host), timeout)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\socket.py", line 500, in create_connection
     for res in getaddrinfo(host, port, 0, SOCK_STREAM):
gaierror: [Errno 11001] getaddrinfo failed
     """
     session.sendmail ( mail_from, [mail_to], msg.as_string() )


What am I doing wrong ?

cheers,
Stef

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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 23 17:26:34 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:26:34 +1100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.102.1266922612.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wry3612d.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> writes:

> Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
> > Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
> > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
> supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?

Why not? What do you think the TIOBE measures, and why would PHP not be
rising by that measure?

-- 
 \     ?To save the world requires faith and courage: faith in reason, |
  `\            and courage to proclaim what reason shows to be true.? |
_o__)                                                ?Bertrand Russell |
Ben Finney


From david at boddie.org.uk  Tue Feb 23 17:28:12 2010
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:28:12 +0100
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
	<hlvlom$vfk$2@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm1kps$lm8$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 05:32, Gib Bogle wrote:

> David Boddie wrote:
> 
>> I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
>> the PyQt Wiki:
>> 
>>   http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt
>> 
>> If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
>> presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
>> this problem.
>> 
>> David
> 
> Thanks David, that worked a treat.  :-)

If you could update the Wiki (or maybe the py2exe Wiki, if they have one)
to say what you did, that would be useful for others in the future. Then
they'll only be one search away from the answer. :-)

David


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 23 17:50:15 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 14:50:15 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hm0tdp$lac$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>
>Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets 
>from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to 
>be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?

Subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 17:55:21 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:55:21 +1100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4b845cfa$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 05:25, Michael Rudolf wrote:
> Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach in
> this.
> 
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in
> Python:
<snip>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
> 
>>>> def a(x=None):
>     if x is None:
>         pass
>     else:
>         pass

Python's idiom for this has always been to use "if arg is None:"; but
now with the (relatively) new decorator feature, though is not yet a
popular idiom, it is now possible to do something like this:

#!/usr/bin/env python

from functools import wraps

def overloaded(func):
    @wraps(func)
    def overloaded_func(*args, **kwargs):
        for f in overloaded_func.overloads:
            try:
                return f(*args, **kwargs)
            except TypeError:
                pass
        else:
            # it will be nice if the error message prints a list of
            # possible signatures here
            raise TypeError("No compatible signatures")

    def overload_with(func):
        overloaded_func.overloads.append(func)
        return overloaded_func

    overloaded_func.overloads = [func]
    overloaded_func.overload_with = overload_with
    return overloaded_func

#############

@overloaded
def a():
    print 'a() without args'
    pass

@a.overload_with
def _(n):
    # note that, just like property(), the function's name in
    # the "def _(n):" line can be arbitrary, the important
    # name is in the "@overloads(a)" line
    print 'a() with args'
    pass

a()
a(4)
a(4, 5) # ERROR: no matching signature



PS: I posted the code to recipe book, for future reference:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577064-simple-function-overloading-with-decorator/


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 17:56:30 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:56:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 5:53?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have two dicts
>
> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> v={1,3,7}
>
> and I'd like to have
>
> a=1
> m=3
> p=7
>
> that is, creating some variables.
>
> How can I do this?

You are probably coming from another language and you're not used to
python's data structures.
If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists. Examples:

    ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
parenthesis ()
    ['a', 'm', 'p'] ---> this is a list, and it's made with brackets
[]

Check the documentation to see the difference between tuples and
lists.
For now, lets just use lists and forget about tuples...
Now if you want a sequence of items ordered a key + value pairs, use a
dictionary, as follows:

    {'name': 'joe', 'surname': 'doe', 'age': 21} ---> this is a dict,
and it's made with curly braces {}.

Curly braces are also used to create sets, but you don't need them now
(check the documentation to learn more about sets).
So going back to your question, you should have two lists, as follows:

    n = ['a', 'm', 'p']
    v = [1,3,7]         --> note that I used brackets [], not curly
braces {}.

And now you can build a dict formed by the keys in "n" and the values
in "v":

    myDict = {}           --> this is an new empty dictionary
    for k,v in zip(n,v):
        myDict[k] = v

This results in this dictionary: {'a': 1, 'p': 7, 'm': 3}.

Hope this helps...
Luis


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 17:57:45 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:57:45 +0100
Subject: [Python-Dev] Question for you
In-Reply-To: <4B844F2E.9010300@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <36FA01F429A6354CB4C8C185B307F35503F4F080@XMBTX133.northgrum.com>
	<4B844F2E.9010300@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002231457t271163d7x1fb46157275edd24@mail.gmail.com>

>> Hello, Dave;
>>
>>    My name is Craig Connor and I am a senior s/w developer at Northrop
>> Grumman.
>>
>> I have a question for you. I have installed* Boost* (via the
>> Installer), and stored it into my
>>
>> C Drive inside a dir called:
>>
>> * C:\boost_1_42*
>>
>> I also installed the* Boost Jam* into a directory called:
>>
>> * C:\boost-jam-3.1.17*
>>
>> I am using 2 separate compilers in my* Win OS XP (SP3)*
>>
>> and I would like to be able to use the Python module of Boost
>>
>> in order to embed Python.h into my C++ compiler.
>>
>> The C++ compilers that I have are:
>>
>> o* Dev-cpp*, and
>>
>> o* Visual C++.net*  (of* MS Visual Studio.Net 2008*).
>>
>> Problem:
>>
>>    When I compile a simple program, I keep getting the error:
>> "*pyconfig.h: No such file or directory*".
>>
>> The program I am trying to start with is (below):
>>
>> *#include <iostream>*
>>
>> *#include<boost/any.hpp>*
>>
>> *#include<boost/python.hpp>*
>>
>> *using namespace std;*
>>
>> *int main( )*
>>
>> *{*
>>
>> *  cout << "Hello, Boost World!!" << endl;*
>>
>> *  boost::any a(5);*
>>
>> *  a = 7.67;*
>>
>> *  std::cout<<boost::any_cast<double>(a)<<std::endl;*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *  system( "PAUSE" );*
>>
>> *  return 0;*
>>
>> *}*
>>
>>
>> Also:
>>
>>   I did set up my environmental config to go to the Boost dir.
>>
>> Question:
>>
>>   Do you know what am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>    Craig Connor
>>
>>    720.622.2209
>>
> Hello Connor,
>
> I think you have the wrong email address - this is Python-dev, an email
> list for the development *of* Python.
>
> All the best,
>
> Michael Foord

[redirecting to python-list from python-dev]

And the fact that you are a "senior s/w developer" at Northrop Grumman
surely doesn't sound like good advertisement for said firm.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:06:09 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>

>> >> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
>> >> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
>> >> posts to this list?
>> >
>> > I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
>> > and all but one of the mailing lists I read.
>>
>> Wait, I misread the posting.  I block everything from
>> google.groups, not everything from gmail.
>
> Yes, I did that a long time ago as well.  But now there seems to be
> more and more actual spam coming from gmail.com itself.  It may just be
> a minor blip on the spam graph but I'm keeping my eye on it.
>
> Most mailing lists that I am on are pretty good at filtering spam
> before it gets to the list.  The only spam I ever see on my NetBSD
> lists are the ones that I moderate and I block them before anyone else
> sees them.  A little more pain for me in return for a lot less pain for
> everyone else.  I guess that's not possible on a list that is gatewayed
> to UseNet like this one is.
>
> Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
> to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
> ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
> felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.

And this has to do with python programming in what way?

You, sir, are incredibly funny :)

Just 5 minutes ago you declared in a nearby thread that

> It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic.  So
> what if some members have an interest?  We have interest in a lot of
> things.  We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
> but questions about hardware are also off topic.
>
> Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
> They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
> of discussions they want to be involved in.  By spamming the group this
> way you take away that freedom of choice.  It's ironic when it is done
> in the name of freedom.

Touche!

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From monkey at joemoney.net  Tue Feb 23 18:08:19 2010
From: monkey at joemoney.net (monkeys paw)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:08:19 -0500
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>

On 2/23/2010 3:17 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> monkeys paw wrote:
>> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
>> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
>> with the write operation?
>>
>> import urllib2
>> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
>> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
>
> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?

'wb' does the trick. Thanks all!

Here is the final working code, i used an index(i)
to see how many reads took place, i have to assume there is
a default buffer size:

import urllib2
a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
i = 0
for line in 
urllib2.urlopen('http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'):
     i = i + 1
     a.write(line)

print "Number of reads: %d" % i
a.close()


NEW QUESTION if y'all are still reading:

Is there an integer increment operation in Python? I tried
using i++ but had to revert to 'i = i + 1'

>
>> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>> a.write(line)
>
> I also don't know if this "for line...a.write(line)" loop is doing
> newline translation. If it's a binary file, you should use .read()
> (perhaps with a modest-sized block-size, writing it in a loop if the
> file can end up being large.)
>
> -tkc
>
>



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:11:26 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:11:26 +1300
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
	<hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<da970fce-bd6b-4eb3-bb66-3ca52cc0fd4a@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm1nau$521$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <da970fce-bd6b-4eb3-bb66-3ca52cc0fd4a at k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, Anh Hai Trinh wrote:

> On Feb 23, 10:08 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>>
>> Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself as the
>> assembler. Call routines in your library to output the code. That way you
>> have a language more powerful than any assembler.
>>
>> See <http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8> for an example.
> 
> SyntaxError: Non-matching "#end if" in crosscode8.py:345

What mismatch? Line 345 is the last line of this routine:

    def org(self, addr) :
        """sets the origin for defining subsequent consecutive memory contents."""
        self.curpsect.setorigin(self.follow(addr))
        self.lastaddr = self.curpsect.origin
        return self # for convenient chaining of calls
    #end org



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:18:19 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:18:19 +1300
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm1nns$5cp$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list at python.org>, mk wrote:

> I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator is
> not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:

Much simpler:

import subprocess

data, _ = subprocess.Popen \
  (
    args = ("pwgen", "-nc"),
    stdout = subprocess.PIPE
  ).communicate()
print data



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:19:13 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:19:13 +1300
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0r5n$1ak$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm1nph$5cp$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <hm0r5n$1ak$1 at news.eternal-september.org>, Martin P. Hellwig 
wrote:

> Actually I am still waiting for Java to be mainstream :-)

Too late, I think. Sun dilly-dallied over making it open source for too 
long, until it practically didn?t matter any more.


From comptekki at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:19:41 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:19:41 -0700
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002231519t127cd512r9bc2feb294db77f2@mail.gmail.com>

<snip>

>
>
> NEW QUESTION if y'all are still reading:
>
> Is there an integer increment operation in Python? I tried
> using i++ but had to revert to 'i = i + 1'

i+=1

<snip>


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:22:05 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:22:05 +1300
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list at python.org>, Ishwor 
Gurung wrote:

> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM

Python is still faster, though. I think a key reason is that its VM supports 
reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.

So you see, it?s all about working smarter, not harder.



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:25:37 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:25:37 +1300
Subject: look at the google code
References: <cdd9c65f-de38-43b8-89e1-f2a50b1f3a4c@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<711cb713-4b4a-47f6-8922-ce1ada7d64e6@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm1o5h$5cp$4@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <711cb713-4b4a-47f6-8922-ce1ada7d64e6 at e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, lkcl wrote:

> we couldn't get control of that site for quite some time so
> started using sourceforget for svn, but the issue tracker on
> sourceforget is truly dreadful.

Damn. I?ve been working on my own fork <http://github.com/ldo/dvdauthor> of
a long-neglected package on SourceForge <http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net/>.
GitHub doesn?t offer a publicly-writable bug tracker, but I was under the
impression that SourceForge did. But you?re saying it?s not worth using?


From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb 23 18:29:23 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:29:23 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100223182923.4d259d12.darcy@druid.net>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100
Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:
> And this has to do with python programming in what way?

Are you new?  Meta discussions about lists are generally considered
on-topic for the list.

> You, sir, are incredibly funny :)

Yes, I am.  That however is NOT on topic.  :-)

And just to bring this back on topic, I did do a test and found that
splitting my mailbox between Python mailing list messages and Python
newsgroup messages did not indicate that that was a good barometer of
spaminess.  There are also quite a few decent posts from gmail.com so
blocking by that domain isn't going to be the problem solver either.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Feb 23 18:34:02 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:34:02 -0800
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8465EA.30706@stoneleaf.us>

monkeys paw wrote:
> NEW QUESTION if y'all are still reading:
> 
> Is there an integer increment operation in Python? I tried
> using i++ but had to revert to 'i = i + 1'

Nope, but try i += 1.

~Ethan~




From sccolbert at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:36:48 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:36:48 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002231536h36a0cf20u2de17fef7f76f8ab@mail.gmail.com>

this image is appropriate:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pS7sKjlzwFg/SwhG1S901pI/AAAAAAAAEiw/XSm93RIY2WE/s400/kelso-burn.jpg

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Daniel Fetchinson <
fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:

> >> >> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
> >> >> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all
> gmail
> >> >> posts to this list?
> >> >
> >> > I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
> >> > and all but one of the mailing lists I read.
> >>
> >> Wait, I misread the posting.  I block everything from
> >> google.groups, not everything from gmail.
> >
> > Yes, I did that a long time ago as well.  But now there seems to be
> > more and more actual spam coming from gmail.com itself.  It may just be
> > a minor blip on the spam graph but I'm keeping my eye on it.
> >
> > Most mailing lists that I am on are pretty good at filtering spam
> > before it gets to the list.  The only spam I ever see on my NetBSD
> > lists are the ones that I moderate and I block them before anyone else
> > sees them.  A little more pain for me in return for a lot less pain for
> > everyone else.  I guess that's not possible on a list that is gatewayed
> > to UseNet like this one is.
> >
> > Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
> > to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
> > ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
> > felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.
>
> And this has to do with python programming in what way?
>
> You, sir, are incredibly funny :)
>
> Just 5 minutes ago you declared in a nearby thread that
>
> > It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic.  So
> > what if some members have an interest?  We have interest in a lot of
> > things.  We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
> > but questions about hardware are also off topic.
> >
> > Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
> > They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
> > of discussions they want to be involved in.  By spamming the group this
> > way you take away that freedom of choice.  It's ironic when it is done
> > in the name of freedom.
>
> Touche!
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:41:16 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 7:56?pm, Luis M. Gonz?lez <luis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 23, 5:53?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I have two dicts
>
> > n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> > v={1,3,7}
>
> > and I'd like to have
>
> > a=1
> > m=3
> > p=7
>
> > that is, creating some variables.
>
> > How can I do this?
>
> You are probably coming from another language and you're not used to
> python's data structures.
> If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists. Examples:
>
> ? ? ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
> parenthesis ()
> ? ? ['a', 'm', 'p'] ---> this is a list, and it's made with brackets
> []
>
> Check the documentation to see the difference between tuples and
> lists.
> For now, lets just use lists and forget about tuples...
> Now if you want a sequence of items ordered a key + value pairs, use a
> dictionary, as follows:
>
> ? ? {'name': 'joe', 'surname': 'doe', 'age': 21} ---> this is a dict,
> and it's made with curly braces {}.
>
> Curly braces are also used to create sets, but you don't need them now
> (check the documentation to learn more about sets).
> So going back to your question, you should have two lists, as follows:
>
> ? ? n = ['a', 'm', 'p']
> ? ? v = [1,3,7] ? ? ? ? --> note that I used brackets [], not curly
> braces {}.
>
> And now you can build a dict formed by the keys in "n" and the values
> in "v":
>
> ? ? myDict = {} ? ? ? ? ? --> this is an new empty dictionary
> ? ? for k,v in zip(n,v):
> ? ? ? ? myDict[k] = v
>
> This results in this dictionary: {'a': 1, 'p': 7, 'm': 3}.
>
> Hope this helps...
> Luis

By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
variables, you have to add them to the local namespace.
The local namespace is also a dictionary "locals()".
So you can update locals as follows:

    locals().update( myDictionary )

This way, all the key-value pairs inside myDict become free variables.
Wich is the same as declaring them as follows:

    a = 1
    p = 7

etc...

Luis





From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Feb 23 18:41:37 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:41:37 -0600
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8467B1.6010404@tim.thechases.com>

Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists. Examples:
> 
>     ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
> parenthesis ()

Actually, a tuple is made with commas...the parens are just there 
to clarify the order of operations and make it easier to read :)

   >>> x = 1,2,3
   >>> x
   (1, 2, 3)

-tkc







From nad at acm.org  Tue Feb 23 19:13:46 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:13:46 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100223182923.4d259d12.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <nad-2FD591.16134623022010@news.gmane.org>

In article <20100223182923.4d259d12.darcy at druid.net>,
 "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
> And just to bring this back on topic, I did do a test and found that
> splitting my mailbox between Python mailing list messages and Python
> newsgroup messages did not indicate that that was a good barometer of
> spaminess.  There are also quite a few decent posts from gmail.com so
> blocking by that domain isn't going to be the problem solver either.

Try following the list using gmane (either via NNTP, RSS, or the web).  
gmane does a pretty good job of filtering the spam.

http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From leo.shklovskii at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 19:19:56 2010
From: leo.shklovskii at gmail.com (Leo)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:19:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell crashing on paste
Message-ID: <1ede46e4-8ca1-4fe0-ad3f-7e781bbe1182@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

I just upgraded to Windows 7 (yes, I know) and I've been having a
really strange problem with running python (2.6.4, installed from the
python.org installer) from the command line.

If I open the interpreter, and then paste in a long string,
conhost.exe crashes. This doesn't happen when pasting the string just
in the command line so its something with the python interpreter.

Here's the details of the windows crash:

Log Name:      Application
Source:        Application Error
Event ID:      1000
Task Category: (100)
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
Description:
Faulting application name: conhost.exe, version: 6.1.7600.16385, time
stamp: 0x4a5bc271
Faulting module name: conhost.exe, version: 6.1.7600.16385, time
stamp: 0x4a5bc271
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x000048ca
Faulting process id: 0x1aa8
Faulting application start time: 0x01cab4e450b97766
Faulting application path: C:\Windows\system32\conhost.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\system32\conhost.exe
Report Id: 9c6afd6c-20d7-11df-bbd8-e390d387a902

Has anyone else seen anything like this? Any suggestions on how to
even start figuring this out?

--Leo


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 23 19:21:48 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 16:21:48 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list at python.org>,
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
>Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>
>Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
>increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
>posts to this list?

Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 23 19:36:08 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:36:08 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.

Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
content (off-topic and unsolicited).

The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
stop the message being spam when posted here.

-- 
 \       ?Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not |
  `\            entitled to their own facts.? ?US Senator Pat Moynihan |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 19:41:35 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:41:35 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b8475df$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 11:21, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list at python.org>,
> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
>> Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>>
>> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
>> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
>> posts to this list?
> 
> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.

Does being a regular poster exempts you from having your post considered
as spam? That's an
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Inverse_ad_hominem.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Feb 23 20:03:23 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:03:23 +0000
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<ff3e4cb5-2855-48e1-b3f3-726ff263852a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.03.23.109000@nowhere.com>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 -0800, sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:

> Basically, multiprocessing is always hard--but it's less hard to start
> without shared everything.  Going with the special case (sharing
> everything, aka threading) is by far the stupider and more complex way
> to approach multiprocssing.

Multi-threading hardly shares anything (only dynamically-allocated
and global data), while everything else (the entire stack) is per-thread.

Yeah, I'm being facetious. Slightly. If you're going to write
multi-threaded code, it's a good idea to wean yourself off of using global
variables and shared mutable state. 



From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Feb 23 20:08:18 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:08:18 +0000
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.08.17.453000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:22:05 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
>> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
>> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM
> 
> Python is still faster, though. I think a key reason is that its VM supports 
> reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.

So how does Python handle circular references?



From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Tue Feb 23 20:11:48 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:11:48 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<qmo6o5pu2e7j8kroju6j27fef9q0er059b@4ax.com>
	<19c11c1f-d70e-4b10-b425-6e65d4c70aeb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8lxlybsa8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:39:21 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> @James I am thinkinhg about effect of errors that are within the
> sequence of P frames. Where the P frames have only the information
> about the changes in previous frames, so that errors are present until
> the next I frame. So I would like to see how is this seen in different
> GoP sized clips.

Ah, I see.  What I'd suggest you do is to encode your video clip at  
various GOP sizes (you'll want some quite extreme ones for comparison),  
then write a little program that reads in the file byte by byte and  
randomly corrupts the data as it goes through.  "tsplay" from the tstools  
suite that I mentioned earlier will do that for you (because it was very  
handy for testing the robustness of our decoders).  Then watch the results  
using VLC or similar.

My recollection is that when the image isn't static, P frames tend to have  
enough intra-coded blocks that corrupted video data doesn't have as much  
effect as you might think.  I've dealt with streams that had ten seconds  
or more between I frames, and starting at a random spot (simulating  
changing channel on your digital TV) builds up an intelligible (if  
obviously wrong) image surprisingly quickly.

PS: my first name is Rhodri, not James.  Don't worry, it catches a lot of  
people out.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:12:12 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:12:12 +1100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hluigd$kag$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hluigd$kag$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b847d0c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/23/10 05:30, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 2/22/2010 8:29 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2010-02-22, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B.
>>
>> [tail of various windows breakages elided]
>>
>>> Comments?
>>
>> Switch to Linux?
>>
>> Or at least install Cygwin?
>>
> Yes, definitely not related, but maybe some W7 user has a similar
> experience here. It seems a natural place to look, since it should be
> reasonably common.

IMHO that doesn't justify.

The advice to move the discussion to a windows-specific group is not
just about reducing off-topic discussion[1], but because there isn't
that much Windows (Seven) users in this newsgroup. Most comp.lang.python
users either uses linux, unix, macs, or older version of windows, and
are not familiar with the specifics of Windows 7.

It would be nice though, if you reposted the solution you found from
another forum here to benefit other python Windows 7 users.

[1] pretty much anything computer-related is not entirely off-topic in
c.l.py because of the wide range of situations people uses python in
(I've seen general algorithmic questions, text-editor wars, problems
with 3rd party module, jython/ironpython internals, etc discussed in
here; many of those gets quite welcomed even though technically off-topic)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:15:40 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:15:40 GMT
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
	<pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<3fb9d59b-21c2-4372-9a32-c542e884faa7@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.15.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:48:09 -0800, Mark Dickinson wrote:

> On Feb 23, 8:11?am, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> Making spaces significant in that fashion is mind-bogglingly awful.
>> Let's look at a language that does this:
>>
>> [steve at sylar ~]$ cat ws-example.rb
>> def a(x=4)
>> ? ? x+2
>> end
>>
>> b = 1
>> print (a + b), (a+b), (a+ b), (a +b), "\n"
>>
>> [steve at sylar ~]$ ruby ws-example.rb
>> 7773
> 
> Hmm.  That's pretty nasty, all right.  Not that Python can claim to be
> immune to such behaviour:
> 
>>>> 3 .real
> 3
>>>> 3. real
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     3. real
>           ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> 
> Though the fact that one of the cases raises an exception (rather than
> silently giving some different behaviour) ameliorates things a bit.

It ameliorates it *completely* -- you won't get silent errors in Python 
because you add or delete whitespace around a dot.


"I find it amusing when novice programmers believe their main job is 
preventing programs from crashing. ... More experienced programmers 
realize that correct code is great, code that crashes could use 
improvement, but incorrect code that doesn't crash is a horrible 
nightmare."

http://www.pphsg.org/cdsmith/types.html


The edge case occurs because dot does double-duty as an operator and as 
part of float literals. However, float literals never include whitespace:

>>> 1.5
1.5
>>> 1 . 5
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    1 . 5
        ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

and likewise for 1. 5 and 1 .5 -- the only way to get a float literal 
with a decimal point is by not including whitespace in it. So there is 
never any ambiguity about floats. You can even do this:

>>> 1.5.__str__()
'1.5'


And since . is an operator outside of float literals, you can do this:

>>> import sys
>>> sys . platform
'linux2'


although why you'd want to escapes me :)

This actually is a feature, since it is useful when calling methods on 
int literals. However this is a very rare thing to do.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:30:17 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:30:17 GMT
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b841bf1$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.30.18@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:35:38 -0800, John Nagle wrote:

> The issue being discussed was scaling Python for CPUs with many cores.
> With Intel shipping 4 cores/8 hyperthread CPUs, the 6/12 part working,
> and the 8/16 part coming along, this is more than a theoretical issue.

Have you tried parallelpython?


http://www.parallelpython.com/


-- 
Steven


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:30:41 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:30:41 +1100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.24.01.08.17.453000@nowhere.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.08.17.453000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <4b848161$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 12:08, Nobody wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:22:05 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> 
>>> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
>>> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
>>> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM
>>
>> Python is still faster, though. I think a key reason is that its VM supports 
>> reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.
> 
> So how does Python handle circular references?

There is an optional garbage collector built into the interpreter. Look
at here on how it works: http://python.ca/nas/python/gc/


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:31:47 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:31:47 GMT
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.109.1266935644.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.31.48@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:34:00 -0500, Jerry Hill wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com>
> wrote:
>> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with
>> XP, and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary
>> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
> 
> I know people went off on a tangent talking about symbolic links and
> hard links, but it is extremely unlikely that you created something like
> that by accident.  Windows just doesn't create those without you doing
> quite a bit of extra work.  It certainly doesn't create them when you
> drag & drop files around through the normal interface.

I find it far more likely that Windows 7 makes it easy for the user to 
accidentally produce links rather than copies, rather than that Python 
suddenly has developed a bug where it opens a completely different file 
to the one you ask for.

But more likely still is some confusion regarding paths.

-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:38:38 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:38:38 GMT
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

>> Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
>> to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
>> ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
>> felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.
> 
> And this has to do with python programming in what way?


I think the question of whether or not comp.lang.python is being spammed, 
and if so, what we can do about it, is a good question to raise on 
comp.lang.python.

Where else do you think it should be discussed?



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:41:26 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:41:26 GMT
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals as
> follows:
> 
>     locals().update( myDictionary )

No you can't. Try it inside a function.




-- 
Steven


From m.12ahesh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:50:55 2010
From: m.12ahesh at gmail.com (all in one)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:50:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
Message-ID: <bcc035c2-bad9-4c5d-b54a-d0a20df0f6d6@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
CHECK OUR VAST PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS INCLUDING
PROJECTS FOR FREE AT
http://presentationsandseminars.blogspot.com


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:53:37 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:53:37 -0500
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.24.01.30.18@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b841bf1$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.30.18@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <BAB7C870-0756-4807-8A8E-CA27DB533DE6@gmail.com>


On Feb 23, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:35:38 -0800, John Nagle wrote:
> 
>> The issue being discussed was scaling Python for CPUs with many cores.
>> With Intel shipping 4 cores/8 hyperthread CPUs, the 6/12 part working,
>> and the 8/16 part coming along, this is more than a theoretical issue.
> 
> Have you tried parallelpython?
> 
> http://www.parallelpython.com/

I had not, have you used this successfully?

Thanks,

S



From magawake at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 21:00:18 2010
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:00:18 -0500
Subject: compiling python question
Message-ID: <1cbd6f831002231800gae705a9i48f781f7dec74ebe@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to compile python with Tk bindings. Do I need to do
anything special for python to detect and enable Tk?

This is mainly for matplotlib's TkAgg. It seems my compiled version of
python isn't finding the module _tkagg


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 21:03:51 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:03:51 +1300
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm21e8$aru$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30 at g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, vsoler wrote:

> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%

Just to be perverse:

    (lambda x : (lambda s : s[:s.index(".")] + s[s.index(".") + 1:] + "%")("%.2f" % x).lstrip("0"))(.7)

:)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 23 21:04:49 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 18:04:49 -0800
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm21g1$p22$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hm0jn4$tnf$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>
>My claim is that if one creates a program in a folder that reads a file 
>in the folder it and then copies it to another folder, it will read  the 
>data file in the first folder, and not a changed file in the new folder. 
>I'd appreciate it if some w7 users could try this, and let me know what 
>they find.
>
>My experience is that if one checks the properties of the copied file, 
>it will point to the original py file and execute it and not the copy.

I've no time to verify your specific claim and have no readily available
proof for mine, but I've seen similar issues on Win7.  AFAIK, this has
nothing to do with Python.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:07:42 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:07:42 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.07.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator is
> not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:
[snip]
> (yes I know that this way generated string will not contain 'z' because
> 99/4 + 97 = 121 which is 'y')

You're worried about the security of the PRNG but then generate a TWO to 
FIVE character lowercase password with no digits, punctuation or the 
letter 'z'? That's priceless!

Python's PRNG is not suitable for producing cryptographically strong 
streams of random bytes, but it is perfectly strong enough for generating 
good passwords.



> The question is: is this secure? 

No. 

You are wasting your time trying to fix something which isn't a problem, 
and introducing a much bigger problem instead. You are MUCH MUCH MUCH 
better off with a six or ten character password taken from upper and 
lowercase letters, plus digits, plus punctuation, than a four digit 
password taken from lowercase letters only. Even if the first case has 
some subtle statistical deviation from uniformity, and the second is 
"truly random" (whatever that means), it doesn't matter.

Nobody is going to crack your password because the password generator is 
0.01% more likely to generate a "G" than a "q". But they *will* brute-
force your password if you have a four digit password taken from a-y only.



> That is, can the string generated this
> way be considered truly random? 

Define truly random.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:19:31 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:19:31 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.19.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:19:59 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
>> I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator
>> is not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:... The question
>> is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this way be
>> considered truly random? (I abstract from not-quite-perfect nature of
>> /dev/urandom at the moment; I can always switch to /dev/random which is
>> better)
> 
> urandom is fine and the entropy loss from the numeric conversions and
> eliminating 'z' in that code before you get letters out is not too bad.

What?

You're going from a possible alphabet of 62 (excluding punctuation) or 94 
(inc punctuation available on an American keyboard) distinct letters down 
to 25, and you say that's "not too bad"?

Paul, if you were anyone else, I'd be sneering uncontrollably about now, 
but you're not clueless about cryptography, so what have I missed? Why is 
reducing the number of distinct letters by more than 50% anything but a 
disaster? This makes the task of brute-forcing the password exponentially 
easier.

Add the fact that the passwords are so short (as little as two characters 
in my tests) and this is about as far from secure as it is possible to be.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:21:41 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:21:41 GMT
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b841bf1$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.30.18@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.148.1266976426.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.21.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:53:37 -0500, ssteinerX at gmail.com wrote:

>> Have you tried parallelpython?
>> 
>> http://www.parallelpython.com/
> 
> I had not, have you used this successfully?

Not personally, no.



-- 
Steven


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 21:22:46 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:22:46 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 12:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
> 
>>> Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
>>> to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
>>> ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
>>> felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.
>>
>> And this has to do with python programming in what way?
> 
> 
> I think the question of whether or not comp.lang.python is being spammed, 
> and if so, what we can do about it, is a good question to raise on 
> comp.lang.python.
> 
> Where else do you think it should be discussed?

comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion


From george.sakkis at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 21:26:21 2010
From: george.sakkis at gmail.com (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:26:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.111.1266936500.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dd162444-4788-4d6c-b30a-04ae32faf1dc@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 3:49?pm, mk <mrk... at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this:
>
> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav...
>
> This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword "Java" appears.
>
> Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now:
>
> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh...

This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other
countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g.
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23&l=

George


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 21:39:53 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:39:53 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.19.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xbpff8ih2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
> Paul, if you were anyone else, I'd be sneering uncontrollably about now, 
> but you're not clueless about cryptography, so what have I missed? Why is 
> reducing the number of distinct letters by more than 50% anything but a 
> disaster? This makes the task of brute-forcing the password exponentially 
> easier.

Reducing the number of distinct letters by 50% decreases the entropy per
character by 1 bit.  That stuff about mixing letters and digits and
funny symbols just makes the password a worse nuisance to remember and
type, for a small gain in entropy that you can compute and make up for.
The main thing you have to make sure is that the min-entropy is
sufficient for your purposes, and it's generally more convenient to do
that by making the password a little bit longer than by imposing
contortions on the person typing it.  Ross Anderson's "Security
Engineering" chapter about passwords is worth reading too:

  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/SE-03.pdf

When I mentioned entropy loss to the OP though, I mostly meant loss from
getting rid of the letter z.  The (binary) Shannon entropy of the
uniform probability distribution on 26 letters is 4.7004397 bits; on 25
letters, it's 4.6438561 bits.  The difference isn't enough to give an
attacker that much advantage.

I like the diceware approach to passphrase generation and I've been
using it for years.  www.diceware.com explains it in detail and the docs
there are quite well-thought-out and informative.  Keep in mind that the
entropy needed for an online password (attacker has to make a server
query for every guess, and hopefully gets locked out after n wrong
tries) and an offline one (attacker has something like a hash of the
password and can run a completely offline search) are different.

Here is a program that I use sometimes:

    from math import log
    dictfile = '/usr/share/dict/words'

    def genrandom(nbytes):
        with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
            return int(f.read(nbytes).encode('hex'), 16)

    def main():
        wordlist = list(x.strip() for x in open(dictfile) if len(x) < 7)
        nwords = len(wordlist)
        print "%d words, entropy=%.3f bits/word"% (
            nwords, log(nwords, 2))
        print '-'.join(wordlist[genrandom(10)%nwords] for i in xrange(6))

    main()


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:40:13 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:40:13 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:

> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this
> way be considered truly random?

Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I 
presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer 
to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.

This isn't a sophisticated statistical test, it's the equivalent of a 
back-of-the-envelope calculation: I generated 100,000 random strings with 
your code, and counted how often each letter appears:

If the letters are uniformly distributed, you would expect all the 
numbers to be quite close, but instead they range from 15063 to 25679:

{'a': 15063, 'c': 20105, 'b': 15100, 'e': 25465, 'd': 25458, 'g': 25597, 
'f': 25589, 'i': 25045, 'h': 25679, 'k': 22945, 'j': 25531, 'm': 16187, 
'l': 16252, 'o': 16076, 'n': 16012, 'q': 16069, 'p': 16119, 's': 16088, 
'r': 16087, 'u': 15951, 't': 16081, 'w': 16236, 'v': 15893, 'y': 15834, 
'x': 15956}

Eye-balling it, it looks vaguely two-humped, one hump around 15-16K, the 
second around 22-25K. Sure enough, here's a quick-and-dirty graph:

a  | ***********************************
b  | ***********************************
c  | ***********************************************
d  | ***********************************************************
e  | ***********************************************************
f  | ************************************************************
g  | ************************************************************
h  | ************************************************************
i  | ***********************************************************
j  | ************************************************************
k  | ******************************************************
l  | **************************************
m  | **************************************
n  | *************************************
o  | **************************************
p  | **************************************
q  | **************************************
r  | **************************************
s  | **************************************
t  | **************************************
u  | *************************************
v  | *************************************
w  | **************************************
x  | *************************************
y  | *************************************


The mean of the counts is 19056.72, and the mean deviation is 3992.28. 
While none of this is statistically sophisticated, it does indicate to me 
that your function is nowhere even close to uniform. It has a very strong 
bias.



-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 21:41:59 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:41:59 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7x7hq38idk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
> Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I 
> presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer 
> to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.

That is a good point, the way those letters are generated (through the
decimal conversion stuff), they won't be all that uniform.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:43:05 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:43:05 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:40:13 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:
> 
>> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this
>> way be considered truly random?
> 
> Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I
> presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer
> to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.

Er, they don't *look* uniformly distributed.

(Of course, being random, perhaps they are and I just got unlucky.)


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 21:50:52 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:50:52 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
>> You might look at the sitewww.diceware.comfor an approach to this,
>> which you can implement with a program. ?The docs there are pretty
>> thoughtful and may help you understand the relevant issues.
>
> Thanks. But I would also be grateful for indicating what is wrong/ugly
> in my code.

The stuff about converting 4 random bytes to a decimal string and then
peeling off 2 digits at a time is pretty awful, and notice that since
2**32 is 4294967296, in the cases where you get 10 digits, the first
2-digit pair is never higher than 42.  There are also some effects on
the lower digits.  The total entropy loss probably isn't fatal but as
described, it's ugly.

I'd write your code something like this:

    nletters = 5

    def randomword(n):
        with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
            return ''.join([chr(ord('a')+ord(c)%26) for c in f.read(n)])

    print randomword(nletters)

I wouldn't rely on a 5 letter combination for a high security
application, but it might be ok for some low security purposes.  Two
random 5-letter combinations separated by a hyphen will be much better,
and is probably easier to type than a solid block of 10 letters.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 21:52:23 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:52:23 -0600
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>	<hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <hm249m$pa$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 20:22 , Lie Ryan wrote:
> On 02/24/10 12:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>
>>>> Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
>>>> to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
>>>> ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
>>>> felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.
>>>
>>> And this has to do with python programming in what way?
>>
>>
>> I think the question of whether or not comp.lang.python is being spammed,
>> and if so, what we can do about it, is a good question to raise on
>> comp.lang.python.
>>
>> Where else do you think it should be discussed?
>
> comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion

Which doesn't exist and never will. Sorry, but meta-discussions about the group 
are typically on-topic for all groups with some few exceptions (e.g. 
non-discussion, binary-only groups with associated .d groups, for instance).

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 22:09:36 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:09:36 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hm25a0$314$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 20:43 , Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:40:13 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:
>>
>>> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this
>>> way be considered truly random?
>>
>> Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I
>> presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer
>> to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.
>
> Er, they don't *look* uniformly distributed.
>
> (Of course, being random, perhaps they are and I just got unlucky.)

You'd have to be very, *very* unlucky to get a sample of that size so far from 
uniformly distributed if the generating process actually were uniform.

Of course, uniformity isn't really necessary. You just need enough entropy in 
the distribution (amongst other things like protection of the seed from being 
known or guessed). A skewed distribution of characters is perfectly fine 
provided that you had enough characters in the password to meet the desired 
entropy requirement. A skewed distribution does require more characters to meet 
a specified entropy requirement than a uniform distribution, of course.

That said, for a naive strategy like "pick an independent random character, 
repeat", you should just use a uniform distribution. It makes the analysis 
easier. Worthwhile generators that give skewed distributions usually do so for a 
good reason, like generating pronounceable passwords.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 22:41:26 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:41:26 +1100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.151.1266981003.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.151.1266981003.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b84a006$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 14:09, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-23 20:43 , Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:40:13 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:
>>>
>>>> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this
>>>> way be considered truly random?
>>>
>>> Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I
>>> presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer
>>> to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.
>>
>> Er, they don't *look* uniformly distributed.
>>
>> (Of course, being random, perhaps they are and I just got unlucky.)
> 
> You'd have to be very, *very* unlucky to get a sample of that size so
> far from uniformly distributed if the generating process actually were
> uniform.
> 
> Of course, uniformity isn't really necessary. You just need enough
> entropy in the distribution (amongst other things like protection of the
> seed from being known or guessed). A skewed distribution of characters
> is perfectly fine provided that you had enough characters in the
> password to meet the desired entropy requirement. A skewed distribution
> does require more characters to meet a specified entropy requirement
> than a uniform distribution, of course.
> 
> That said, for a naive strategy like "pick an independent random
> character, repeat", you should just use a uniform distribution. It makes
> the analysis easier. Worthwhile generators that give skewed
> distributions usually do so for a good reason, like generating
> pronounceable passwords.

If an attacker knows the that the random number generator have an
extreme skew and he knows the distribution of the letters, how much
advantage would it give the attacker? My initial guess is that the more
skewed the letters are, the better the advantage, since an attacker
using brute-force can write his program to prefer the most likely letters?


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 22:47:22 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals as
> > follows:
>
> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>
> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>
> --
> Steven

Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead.
Although I don't know if it would be a good practice...

Luis


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 22:51:53 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:51:53 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.151.1266981003.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b84a006$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xwry39tpi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> writes:
> If an attacker knows the that the random number generator have an
> extreme skew and he knows the distribution of the letters, how much
> advantage would it give the attacker? My initial guess is that the more
> skewed the letters are, the better the advantage, since an attacker
> using brute-force can write his program to prefer the most likely letters?

A useable (conservative) estimate is that the attacker's workload is 1/p
where p is the probability of the most likely password.  That basically
says the password strength can be measured by the min-entropy.
Cryptographers often use that approach.  If you want to be more precise,
you can do a conditional probability calculation assuming the attacker
works down the list of possible passwords in order of decreasing
probability, stopping when they hit the right one.

More generally still, passwords regardless of their entropy content are
a sucky way to encapsulate cryptographic secrets.  We keep using them
because every alternative has drawbacks of its own.


From rpdooling at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 22:53:03 2010
From: rpdooling at gmail.com (Rick Dooling)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hm1930$mgs$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <db689832-4128-43d0-9b1b-51b82db725e3@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 1:08?pm, Gib Bogle <g.bo... at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:

> It isn't useful to respond to a serious question with OS bigotry.

Okay, I'll go with what Aahz said:

> I've seen similar issues on Win7.
> AFAIK, this has nothing to do with Python.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb 23 23:09:18 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:09:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.150.1266979970.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm28pe$sj0$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-24, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

>> comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion
>
> Which doesn't exist and never will. Sorry, but
> meta-discussions about the group are typically on-topic for
> all groups with some few exceptions (e.g.  non-discussion,
> binary-only groups with associated .d groups, for instance).

Since now we are discussing meta-discussions, is this now a
meta-meta-discussion?

-- 
Grant





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 23:15:31 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 04:15:31 GMT
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
>> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
>> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals
>> > as follows:
>>
>> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>>
>> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>>
>> --
>> Steven
> 
> Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I don't
> know if it would be a good practice...

Er, how does using globals change the local variables?



-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 23:16:37 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:16:37 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
In-Reply-To: <hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B84A825.1030407@invalid.com>

On 2/23/2010 2:50 PM, Aahz wrote:
> In article<hm0tdp$lac$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
> W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets
>>from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to
>> be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?
>
> Subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

Thanks. I'd appreciate it if you tell me what topic is. I belong to too 
many mail lists. Thursday will be my first meeting. Perhaps I'll change 
my mind about ML after a meeting. Can you describe anything more than 
the topic? Do they have books, videos, tutorials (live), casual Q/A, 
person-to-person chat before the speaker?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 23:16:51 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:16:51 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
In-Reply-To: <hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm297n$up6$2@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/23/2010 2:50 PM, Aahz wrote:
> In article<hm0tdp$lac$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
> W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets
>>from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to
>> be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?
>
> Subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

Thanks. I'd appreciate it if you tell me what topic is. I belong to too 
many mail lists. Thursday will be my first meeting. Perhaps I'll change 
my mind about ML after a meeting. Can you describe anything more than 
the topic? Do they have books, videos, tutorials (live), casual Q/A, 
person-to-person chat before the speaker?


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 23:44:10 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:44:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 1:15?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> >> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> >> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> >> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals
> >> > as follows:
>
> >> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>
> >> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>
> >> --
> >> Steven
>
> > Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I don't
> > know if it would be a good practice...
>
> Er, how does using globals change the local variables?
>
> --
> Steven

Hmmm.... well, you tell me!
As I said, I don't know if this is the recomended way...

Luis


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 23:48:59 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:48:59 +1300
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.151.1266981003.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b84a006$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> <7xwry39tpi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hm2b3s$g4e$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <7xwry39tpi.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:

> More generally still, passwords regardless of their entropy content are
> a sucky way to encapsulate cryptographic secrets.

They?re a shared secret. How else would you represent a shared secret, if 
not with a shared secret?


From loudoillond522 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 00:27:52 2010
From: loudoillond522 at gmail.com ("Lou " Shy Amateur Strips)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:27:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: %%% daughter fucked her x-boy friend in front of her father  %%% " 
	FREE Live shows also available"
Message-ID: <8895961a-dec1-4e4e-95a5-0b116fbec24c@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

%%% daughter fucked her x-boy friend in front of her father  %%% "
FREE Live shows also available"

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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 01:03:41 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 22:03:41 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com> <4B84A825.1030407@invalid.com>
Message-ID: <hm2fft$k5u$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4B84A825.1030407 at invalid.com>,
W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>On 2/23/2010 2:50 PM, Aahz wrote:
>> In article<hm0tdp$lac$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
>> W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets
>>>from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to
>>> be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?
>>
>> Subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>Thanks. I'd appreciate it if you tell me what topic is. I belong to too 
>many mail lists. Thursday will be my first meeting. Perhaps I'll change 
>my mind about ML after a meeting. Can you describe anything more than 
>the topic? Do they have books, videos, tutorials (live), casual Q/A, 
>person-to-person chat before the speaker?

Sorry, I don't know offhand; using the mailing list is your best bet.
(BayPIGgies is usually not a high-traffic list.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 01:07:48 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hlp9ju$o2d$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b807791$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <99bd0874-3462-4bb3-8c3c-54b73c88f9a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 7:00?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:28:16 +0000, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> > On 02/20/10 00:20, MattB wrote:
> > <cut>
>
> >> Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
> >> that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
> >> programming noob.
> > <cut>
> > It wasn't my intention to imply that, rather the opposite, that if some
> > BOFH would see your action as misuse (some admins are pretty trigger
> > happy), you would expect them to contact you directly (I would). Even
> > though you are on a wireless there are ways to track you down. For
> > example I would search my log to see if I can make an association
> > between a login to one of my servers and your mac address.
>
> This may be what you would do, but in my experience, it is more likely
> that the admin would be far too busy and/or lazy to try to track you down
> unless (1) they wanted to give you a warning prior to expulsion, or (2)
> they needed to know who you were prior to laying charges.
>
> In my experience they're far more likely to just hit the problem with a
> hammer by blocking you as much as is technically possible.
>
> > BTW, I always followed the philosophy that learning is much more fun if
> > you can brake/blow something up. Thus on my networks all students had a
> > lot of freedom to do whatever they think was appropriate but they where
> > aware that every action on my network was monitored and logged.
>
> Unfortunately this is the exception rather than the rule, I think.
>
> --
> Steven

All -- problem solved.  Following Lie's suggestions, and the links
from those pages, I went hunting around in my /library/preferences/
SystemConfiguration/.  I opened all of the 6 or 7 files that were in
there, and all looked as if they contained info directly related to my
airport card -- networks, server names, etc.  So I copied them to a
backup folder and then deleted them. Then I rebooted.

Then I opened IDLE and was able to raise URLs again.  I'm not sure
what it was about those files (or maybe a specific one) -- does anyone
have any ideas?

Thanks for your help and suggestions while I tried to figure this out.


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 24 01:31:59 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:31:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<ff3e4cb5-2855-48e1-b3f3-726ff263852a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.03.23.109000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <6d75d20c-4028-42ef-9c45-ad118e315139@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 8:03?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 -0800, sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > Basically, multiprocessing is always hard--but it's less hard to start
> > without shared everything. ?Going with the special case (sharing
> > everything, aka threading) is by far the stupider and more complex way
> > to approach multiprocssing.
>
> Multi-threading hardly shares anything (only dynamically-allocated
> and global data), while everything else (the entire stack) is per-thread.
>
> Yeah, I'm being facetious. Slightly.

I'm afraid I may be missing the facetiousness here.

The only definitional difference between threads and processes is that
threads share memory, while processes don't.

There are often other important practical implementation details, but
sharing memory vs not sharing memory is the key theoretical
distinction between threads and processes.  On most platforms, whether
or not you want to share memory (and abandon memory protection wrt the
rest of the program) is the key factor a programmer should consider
when deciding between threads and processes--the only time that's not
true is when the implementation forces ancillary details upon you.


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid  Wed Feb 24 01:41:50 2010
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:41:50 +0100
Subject: python shell crashing on paste
References: <1ede46e4-8ca1-4fe0-ad3f-7e781bbe1182@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b84ca31$0$15832$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>

Hi! 

Where (directory) are you, when the problem come?
Have you try with UAC disabled?

@+
--  
MCI





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 02:08:19 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 07:08:19 GMT
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:44:10 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> On Feb 24, 1:15?am, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>> > On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
>> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>> >> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
>> >> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
>> >> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update
>> >> > locals as follows:
>>
>> >> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>>
>> >> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Steven
>>
>> > Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I
>> > don't know if it would be a good practice...
>>
>> Er, how does using globals change the local variables?
>>
>> --
>> Steven
> 
> Hmmm.... well, you tell me!

I'm not the one that said you can update locals! You said it. I said you 
can't, because you *can't*. The docs warn that you can't change locals, 
and if you try it, you will see that the docs are right.


>>> def test():
...     x = 1
...     locals().update(x = 2)
...     print x
...
>>>
>>> test()
1





> As I said, I don't know if this is the recomended way...

It's not recommended because it doesn't work.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 02:11:01 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 07:11:01 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.19.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<7xbpff8ih2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.07.11.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:39:53 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>> Paul, if you were anyone else, I'd be sneering uncontrollably about
>> now, but you're not clueless about cryptography, so what have I missed?
>> Why is reducing the number of distinct letters by more than 50%
>> anything but a disaster? This makes the task of brute-forcing the
>> password exponentially easier.
> 
> Reducing the number of distinct letters by 50% decreases the entropy per
> character by 1 bit.  

You say that as if 1 bit of entropy isn't much :)

Given a random six character password taken out of an alphabet of 52 
characters, it takes over nine billion attempts to brute force it. 
Reducing the alphabet by 50% cuts that down to less than 200 million. To 
make up for that loss of 1 bit of entropy, you need two extra characters 
in your password.


> That stuff about mixing letters and digits and
> funny symbols just makes the password a worse nuisance to remember and
> type, for a small gain in entropy that you can compute and make up for.

Well, everybody has their own ways of remembering passwords, and I'd much 
prefer to remember an eight character password with "funny symbols" that 
I chose myself, than a six character password with nothing but letters 
that was chosen for me.

Of course, I flatter myself that I know how to choose good passwords, and 
I hate remembering long random strings even from a reduced alphabet (e.g. 
I hate memorizing eight digit phone numbers, and am completely incapable 
of remembering ten digit mobile phone numbers).



-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 02:58:30 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:58:30 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.19.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<7xbpff8ih2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.11.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xljejgj4p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
> Given a random six character password taken out of an alphabet of 52 
> characters, it takes over nine billion attempts to brute force it. 
> Reducing the alphabet by 50% cuts that down to less than 200 million. To 
> make up for that loss of 1 bit of entropy, you need two extra characters 
> in your password.

One extra character comes pretty close (within 1.3 bits).  Even two
extra chars is probably (subjective) easier for a user to deal with than
a completely random mixture of upper/lower case.  You don't get the
extra bit per character if that distribution is anything other than
random, of course.

For something like a web password (each guess takes a server hit), where
the resource guarded is not very valuable, 5 chars is probably enough
for most purposes.  For something like an encryption key subject to
offline attacks, 6 mixed-case characters will barely slow a real
attacker down.

As before, my suggestion is still diceware.  I've used random
alphanumerics in the past but they're too big a hassle, they have to be
written down, etc.  

And of course, if you're doing something serious, use a hardware token.


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 03:28:12 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:28:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<qmo6o5pu2e7j8kroju6j27fef9q0er059b@4ax.com>
	<19c11c1f-d70e-4b10-b425-6e65d4c70aeb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8lxlybsa8ncjz@gnudebst>
Message-ID: <3299bfaf-e8d9-4340-a339-e8a8d31c2fa9@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 3:11?am, "Rhodri James" <rho... at wildebst.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:39:21 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gv... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > @James I am thinkinhg about effect of errors that are within the
> > sequence of P frames. Where the P frames have only the information
> > about the changes in previous frames, so that errors are present until
> > the next Iframe. So I would like to see how is this seen in different
> > GoP sized clips.
>
> Ah, I see. ?What I'd suggest you do is to encode your video clip at ?
> various GOP sizes (you'll want some quite extreme ones for comparison), ?
> then write a little program that reads in the file byte by byte and ?
> randomly corrupts the data as it goes through. ?"tsplay" from the tstools ?
> suite that I mentioned earlier will do that for you (because it was very ?
> handy for testing the robustness of our decoders). ?Then watch the results ?
> using VLC or similar.
>
> My recollection is that when the image isn't static, P frames tend to have ?
> enough intra-coded blocks that corrupted video data doesn't have as much ?
> effect as you might think. ?I've dealt with streams that had ten seconds ?
> or more between I frames, and starting at a random spot (simulating ?
> changing channel on your digital TV) builds up an intelligible (if ?
> obviously wrong) image surprisingly quickly.
>
> PS: my first name is Rhodri, not James. ?Don't worry, it catches a lot of ?
> people out.
>
> --
> Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses

Well for my simulation of errors I am thinking on using the WANem
(Wide Area Netwrok Emulator) which has a function to simulate dellay,
jitter etc.. http://wanem.sourceforge.net/
I have been downloading the clips from youtube and I surprisengly saw
that I frame occures after 300 frames(at 15fps-so that means after 20
seconds)! That was quite unusal for my perception of the purpose of I
frame, but then I figured out that (as you mentioned) P frames include
intra-coded blocks which hide the effect of the errors.

The goal of my project is to make a program which plays the corrupted
video after being out thru error concealment, and in case when errors
overcome some threshold error value the program doesn't paly any more
frames until the I frame occures and then I would figure out the
optimal threshold value for the different GoP sizes as well as
different content of the clip.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 03:33:44 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:33:44 +1300
Subject: ANN: Pyrex 0.9.8.6
Message-ID: <mailman.200.1267051726.4577.python-announce-list@python.org>

Pyrex 0.9.8.6 is now available:

   http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/

Numerous bug fixes and a few improvements. See the CHANGES
page on the web site for details.


What is Pyrex?
--------------

Pyrex is a language for writing Python extension modules.
It lets you freely mix operations on Python and C data, with
all Python reference counting and error checking handled
automatically.


From baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 03:37:19 2010
From: baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com (Baptiste Lepilleur)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:37:19 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
Message-ID: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>

I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
search while they have a doc string:

http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=gzopen
http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html?highlight=tarfile#tarfile.TarFile

See script at the end for list of class methods.

Is this "by design" or is there some an odd bug in doc generation lurking
around? This somehow seem to be specific to module tarfile. Fraction
classmethod from_float() is available in the documentation and found by a
search for example...

---
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71605, Apr 14 2009, 22:40:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import tarfile
>>> help( tarfile.TarFile.gzopen )
Help on method gzopen in module tarfile:

gzopen(cls, name, mode='r', fileobj=None, compresslevel=9, **kwargs) method
of __builtin__.type instance
    Open gzip compressed tar archive name for reading or writing.
    Appending is not allowed.

>>> help( tarfile.TarFile.bz2open )
Help on method bz2open in module tarfile:

bz2open(cls, name, mode='r', fileobj=None, compresslevel=9, **kwargs) method
of __builtin__.type instance
    Open bzip2 compressed tar archive name for reading or writing.
    Appending is not allowed.

>>> help( tarfile.TarInfo.create_pax_global_header )
Help on method create_pax_global_header in module tarfile:

create_pax_global_header(cls, pax_headers) method of __builtin__.type
instance
    Return the object as a pax global header block sequence.

Baptiste.
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From kidhvfhgi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 03:58:46 2010
From: kidhvfhgi at gmail.com (hhuifhiu ijuihuh)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:58:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Watch nude girls fucking and sucking the cocks. Girls shaving their 
	pussies,
	boys giving shots on   the pussies and licking them. Also watch 
	girls getting fucked on a car roof, a girl banged by a gang   of four 
	members. At the end the girl collect
Message-ID: <3b25b8ae-1917-43ce-b3fa-098a83e41ad5@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Watch nude girls fucking and sucking the cocks. Girls shaving their
pussies, boys giving shots on

the pussies and licking them. Also watch girls getting fucked on a car
roof, a girl banged by a gang

of four members. At the end the girl collects sperms from all four
mens penis in her mouth and

swallows it.


http://sites.google.com/site/niceglamourz

http://sites.google.com/site/niceglamourz

http://sites.google.com/site/niceglamourz


From dieter at handshake.de  Wed Feb 24 04:11:25 2010
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 10:11:25 +0100
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>
	<pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <x7eikb80ci.fsf@handshake.de>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes on 22 Feb 2010 06:07:05 GMT:
> ...
> It's *especially* not safe if you put nothing in the globals dict, 
> because Python kindly rectifies that by putting the builtins into it:
> 
> >>> eval("__builtins__.keys()", {}, {})
> ['IndexError', 'all', 'help', 'vars', ... 'OverflowError']
> 
> 
> >>> eval("globals()", {}, {})
> {'__builtins__': {...}}
> >>>
> >>> eval("globals()", {'__builtins__': None}, {})
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
> NameError: name 'globals' is not defined
> 
> So {'__builtins__': None} is safer than {}. Still not safe, exactly, but 
> safer. Or at least you make the Black Hats work harder before they own 
> your server :)

Using functionality introduced with the class/type homogenization,
it is quite easy to get access to the "file" type (even when "__builtins__"
is disabled). Having "file", arbitrary files can be read, written, destroyed...


Dieter


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Feb 24 04:15:17 2010
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:15:17 +0100
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
Message-ID: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:

  while(rq = get_request(..)) {
     handle_request(rq);
  }

Currently I'm doing

  while True:
      rq = get_request(...)
      if not rq:
          break
      handle_request(rq)

in Python 2.6. Any suggestions how to rewrite that?

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 24 04:17:23 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:17:23 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B84EEA3.2090104@sequans.com>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> lallous <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> writes:
>
>   
>> Hello
>>
>> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?
>>
>> Let us consider this:
>>
>> class C1:
>>
>>     # Pure virtual
>>     def cb(self, param1, param2):
>>         """
>>         This is a callback
>>
>>         @param param1: ...
>>         @param param2: ...
>>         """
>>         raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
>>     
>
> Why define it if it is virtual?
>   

Slightly off topic but this is often useful when writing interfaces. You 
can then properly document what should any subclass (interface 
implemention) be doing.
The thing is that in case of virtual methods, you *do want* to raise the 
notImplemented exceptions, meaning you've failed to implement all the 
required methods.
Strange thing that the OP want to silently call nothing at all when 
calling a virtual method, he looses all the benefits from a virtual design.
Anyway, I don't deal into code optimization, this is not healthy :-)

JM


From nandini.sharma84 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 04:18:18 2010
From: nandini.sharma84 at gmail.com (nandini)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:18:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why One Should Go for Online Tech Support
Message-ID: <adc0a576-3a2b-46c8-9e91-93e060b3cbfe@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>



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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 05:07:00 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:07:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <1909640d-b6d2-43df-bcee-ae523d92f3bc@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>



Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:
>
>   while(rq = get_request(..)) {
>      handle_request(rq);
>   }
>
> Currently I'm doing
>
>   while True:
>       rq = get_request(...)
>       if not rq:
>           break
>       handle_request(rq)
>
> in Python 2.6. Any suggestions how to rewrite that?
>

This is the common idiom.

--
Arnaud


From lars at gustaebel.de  Wed Feb 24 05:14:24 2010
From: lars at gustaebel.de (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gust=E4bel?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:14:24 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
> I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
> TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
> search while they have a doc string:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=gzopen
> http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html?highlight=tarfile#tarfile.TarFile
> 
> See script at the end for list of class methods.
> 
> Is this "by design" or is there some an odd bug in doc generation lurking
> around? This somehow seem to be specific to module tarfile. Fraction
> classmethod from_float() is available in the documentation and found by a
> search for example...

First of all, Python's module documentation is not generated from module
docstrings, each module has its own rst text file in the documentation tree
instead.

But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class has
three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
does many more other high-level things as well.

Regards,

-- 
Lars Gust?bel
lars at gustaebel.de

I do not care to belong to a club that
accepts people like me as members.
(Groucho Marx)


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 24 05:21:36 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:21:36 +0100
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:
> 
>   while(rq = get_request(..)) {
>      handle_request(rq);
>   }
> 
> Currently I'm doing
> 
>   while True:
>       rq = get_request(...)
>       if not rq:
>           break
>       handle_request(rq)
> 
> in Python 2.6. Any suggestions how to rewrite that?

Assuming get_request(...) is called with the same arguments on each 
iteration and uses None to signal that there is no more data:

from functools import partial

for rq in iter(partial(get_request, ...), None):
    handle_request(rq)

Peter


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 24 05:28:13 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:28:13 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4B84FF3D.1010403@sequans.com>

Michael Rudolf wrote:
> Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach 
> in this.
>
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in 
> Python:
>
> >>> def a():
>     pass
> >>> def a(x):
>     pass
> >>> a()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
>     a()
> TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
>
> >>> def a(x=None):
>     if x is None:
>         pass
>     else:
>         pass
>
> ?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 docstring, 
1 way do do it, 1 interface.

JM


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 24 05:31:48 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 10:31:48 GMT
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D296B281C59Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:
>> 
>>   while(rq = get_request(..)) {
>>      handle_request(rq);
>>   }
>> 
> Assuming get_request(...) is called with the same arguments on each 
> iteration and uses None to signal that there is no more data:
> 
> from functools import partial
> 
> for rq in iter(partial(get_request, ...), None):
>     handle_request(rq)
> 
> Peter

and the next step on from this is to realise that the problem isn't how to 
code the calls to get_request(), the problem is actually that get_request() 
itself isn'ty Pythonic. Rewrite it as a generator, rename it to reflect 
that it now generates a sequence of requests and the code becomes:

for rq in incoming_requests(...):
   handle_request(rq)


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 24 05:38:33 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:38:33 +0100
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Xns9D296B281C59Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hm2vjv$csj$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> 
>> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:
>>> 
>>>   while(rq = get_request(..)) {
>>>      handle_request(rq);
>>>   }
>>> 
>> Assuming get_request(...) is called with the same arguments on each
>> iteration and uses None to signal that there is no more data:
>> 
>> from functools import partial
>> 
>> for rq in iter(partial(get_request, ...), None):
>>     handle_request(rq)
>> 
>> Peter
> 
> and the next step on from this is to realise that the problem isn't how to
> code the calls to get_request(), the problem is actually that
> get_request() itself isn'ty Pythonic. Rewrite it as a generator, rename it
> to reflect that it now generates a sequence of requests and the code
> becomes:
> 
> for rq in incoming_requests(...):
>    handle_request(rq)

...and a likely implementation would be

def incoming_requests(...):
    while True:
        rq = ... # inlined version of get_request()
        if not rq:
            break
        yield rq

In other words: It's turtles all the way down...

Peter



From luismgz at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 05:44:52 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:44:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 4:08?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:44:10 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > On Feb 24, 1:15?am, Steven D'Aprano
> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> >> > On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> >> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> >> >> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> >> >> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> >> >> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update
> >> >> > locals as follows:
>
> >> >> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>
> >> >> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Steven
>
> >> > Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I
> >> > don't know if it would be a good practice...
>
> >> Er, how does using globals change the local variables?
>
> >> --
> >> Steven
>
> > Hmmm.... well, you tell me!
>
> I'm not the one that said you can update locals! You said it. I said you
> can't, because you *can't*. The docs warn that you can't change locals,
> and if you try it, you will see that the docs are right.
>
> >>> def test():
>
> ... ? ? x = 1
> ... ? ? locals().update(x = 2)
> ... ? ? print x
> ...
>
> >>> test()
>
> 1
>
> > As I said, I don't know if this is the recomended way...
>
> It's not recommended because it doesn't work.
>
> --
> Steven

I guess I have to check the docs...
Anyway, nobody wanted to update locals() from within a function here.
Doing it outside of a function seems to work.
And updating globals() works in any case, which is what the OP seems
to need. Isn't it?

Luis


From luismgz at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 05:58:38 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:58:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 7:44?am, Luis M. Gonz?lez <luis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 4:08?am, Steven D'Aprano
>
>
>
>
>
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:44:10 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > > On Feb 24, 1:15?am, Steven D'Aprano
> > > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > >> > On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> > >> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > >> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > >> >> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> > >> >> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> > >> >> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update
> > >> >> > locals as follows:
>
> > >> >> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>
> > >> >> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Steven
>
> > >> > Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I
> > >> > don't know if it would be a good practice...
>
> > >> Er, how does using globals change the local variables?
>
> > >> --
> > >> Steven
>
> > > Hmmm.... well, you tell me!
>
> > I'm not the one that said you can update locals! You said it. I said you
> > can't, because you *can't*. The docs warn that you can't change locals,
> > and if you try it, you will see that the docs are right.
>
> > >>> def test():
>
> > ... ? ? x = 1
> > ... ? ? locals().update(x = 2)
> > ... ? ? print x
> > ...
>
> > >>> test()
>
> > 1
>
> > > As I said, I don't know if this is the recomended way...
>
> > It's not recommended because it doesn't work.
>
> > --
> > Steven
>
> I guess I have to check the docs...
> Anyway, nobody wanted to update locals() from within a function here.
> Doing it outside of a function seems to work.
> And updating globals() works in any case, which is what the OP seems
> to need. Isn't it?
>
> Luis

Alright, this is what the docs say about locals:
"Note
The built-in functions globals() and locals() return the current
global and local dictionary, respectively, which may be useful to pass
around for use as the second and third argument to exec().

Note
The default locals act as described for function locals() below:
modifications to the default locals dictionary should not be
attempted. Pass an explicit locals dictionary if you need to see
effects of the code on locals after function exec() returns."

I wonder why updating locals(), not from within a function, works (at
least in my interactive session).
And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal? If not, is
there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?

Luis


From kse.listed.co1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 06:06:39 2010
From: kse.listed.co1 at gmail.com (Naeem)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 03:06:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "selma blair" "salma hayek" "salma hayek hot" "salma hayek 
	wallpapers" "hollywood sexiest scenes" "hollywood blue films"
	"hollywood 
	movies free download" on http://sexyandpretty-girls.blogspot.com/
Message-ID: <0add456c-de59-4105-a01c-9eaf19a7fa20@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

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vv


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Feb 24 06:24:58 2010
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:24:58 +0100
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Xns9D296B281C59Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hm2vjv$csj$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <atef57-5u1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Duncan Booth wrote:
>> for rq in incoming_requests(...):
>>    handle_request(rq)
> 
> ...and a likely implementation would be
> 
> def incoming_requests(...):
>     while True:
>         rq = ... # inlined version of get_request()
>         if not rq:
>             break
>         yield rq
> 
> In other words: It's turtles all the way down...

Almost. While it moves the ugliness, at least it allows separating the
iteration logic from the handling logic, which is already a big step ahead!

That said, there is:

  with <expression> as <name>:
      ...

so why not:

  while <expression> as <name>:
      ...

and also:

  if <expression> as <name>:
      ...


Thanks to everybody for their input!

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 24 06:38:10 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:38:10 +0100
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b850f94$0$7054$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Luis M. Gonz?lez a ?crit :
> On Feb 23, 5:53 pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have two dicts
>>
>> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
>> v={1,3,7}
>>
>> and I'd like to have
>>
>> a=1
>> m=3
>> p=7
>>
>> that is, creating some variables.
>>
>> How can I do this?
> 
> You are probably coming from another language and you're not used to
> python's data structures.
> If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists.

<pedantic>

If you want a list, then you use a list - not a tuple !-)

> Examples:
> 
>     ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
> parenthesis ()

It's not the parens that "make" the tuple, it's the commas:

 >>> t1 = (1, 2, 3)
 >>> t2 = 1, 2, 3
 >>> t1
(1, 2, 3)
 >>> t2
(1, 2, 3)
 >>> type(t2)
<type 'tuple'>
 >>>

The only case where the parens are required is to define an empty tuple:
 >>> empty = ()
 >>> empty
()
 >>> type(empty)
<type 'tuple'>

</<pedantic>

Now it's most of the time a good idea to still use the parens since it 
makes for more readable code (IMHO...)

(snip  helpful content)


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 24 06:40:22 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:40:22 +0100
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b851018$0$7054$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Luis M. Gonz?lez a ?crit :
> On Feb 23, 10:41 pm, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>>> By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
>>> variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
>>> namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals as
>>> follows:
>>>     locals().update( myDictionary )
>> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>>
> 
> Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead.
> Although I don't know if it would be a good practice...

It's even worse than a bad practice. Hint : why is "globals" named 
"globals" and not "locals" ?



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 06:42:08 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:42:08 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

First: Thanks for all the replies so far, they really helped me.

Am 24.02.2010 11:28, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>> >>> def a(x=None):
>>     if x is None:
>>         pass
>>     else:
>>         pass
>>
> This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 docstring,
> 1 way do do it, 1 interface.

Yes, I see. Actually I do now realize that even in Java I use method 
overloading mostly to implement optional arguments anyway, like:

void constructor(){this.foo='foo'; this.initotherstuff();}
void constructor(int x) {this.x=x; this.constructor();}

and so on.

So most of the time the idiom above is exactly what I need, as the 
versions of the function share code anyway.

But there are also cases where they do something completely different - 
in these cases I might use one of the other solutions provided here or 
simply make two or three functions and name them appropiately.

I do now see that the pythonic approach is the "best" for most cases, 
but I really loved to see that you *can* do overloading in a convenient 
way if you really want to :D Those decorators just rock :D

Thanks again,
Michael


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 24 06:48:13 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:48:13 +0100
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Luis M. Gonz?lez a ?crit :
(snip)
> Alright, this is what the docs say about locals:
> "Note
> The built-in functions globals() and locals() return the current
> global and local dictionary, respectively, which may be useful to pass
> around for use as the second and third argument to exec().
> 
> Note
> The default locals act as described for function locals() below:
> modifications to the default locals dictionary should not be
> attempted. Pass an explicit locals dictionary if you need to see
> effects of the code on locals after function exec() returns."
> 
> I wonder why updating locals(), not from within a function, works (at
> least in my interactive session).

Because at the top level, locals and globals are the same thing.

> And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal?

It's legal, but it's (usually) a very bad idea - at the top-level, it 
harms readability, and from within a function it's doubly bad 
(readibility + "globals are evil").

Now as usual with GoldenRules(tm), it's meant to be broken - once you do 
know why you shouldn't _usually_ do it.


  for the very same reasons global

> If not, is
> there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?
> 
> Luis


From nobody at dizum.com  Wed Feb 24 06:52:50 2010
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:52:50 +0100 (CET)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
Message-ID: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>

Hello,

Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?

class T:
  A = range(2)
  B = range(4)
  s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)

It produces the exception:

<type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined

The exception above is especially confusing since the following similar example (I just replaced the generator by an explicit array) works:

class T:
  A = range(2)
  B = range(4)
  s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])

(BTW, the class scope declarations are intentional).

Thanks, Leo.



From J.Fine at open.ac.uk  Wed Feb 24 07:03:40 2010
From: J.Fine at open.ac.uk (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:03:40 +0000
Subject: WANTED: Regular expressions for breaking TeX/LaTeX document into
	tokens
Message-ID: <hm34is$k0v$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>

Hi

Does anyone know of a collection of regular expressions that will break 
a TeX/LaTeX document into tokens?  Assume that there is no verbatim or 
other category code changes.

Thanks


Jonathan


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 07:18:59 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:18:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<c3dfe1d1002231130v6b65bbcaoa6e2943f6d653839@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.129.1266956126.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a95ca33a-f0bc-4d6c-881d-cfb867f8ed16@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 23 feb, 20:16, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:30:03 +0100
>
> Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarna... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Even if this is "Off Topic" (which I think it really isn't in any open
> > source / free software-oriented mailing list), I want to agree with
> > Joan.
>
> It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic. ?So
> what if some members have an interest? ?We have interest in a lot of
> things. ?We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
> but questions about hardware are also off topic.
>
> Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
> They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
> of discussions they want to be involved in. ?By spamming the group this
> way you take away that freedom of choice. ?It's ironic when it is done
> in the name of freedom.
>
> --

To avoid the spam, I reccomend a mailing list site as librelist:

  http://librelist.com/index.html

problem -> reaction -> solution


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 24 07:21:31 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:21:31 +0100
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
In-Reply-To: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Nomen Nescio:
> Hello,
> 
> Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?
> 
> class T:
>   A = range(2)
>   B = range(4)
>   s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
> 
> It produces the exception:
> 
> <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined

Which Python implementation are you using?

I can't reproduce the error message that you cite.


<example>
C:\test> py2
Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class T:
...   A = range(2)
...   B = range(4)
...   s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in <genexpr>
NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
 >>> exit()

C:\test> py3
Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class T:
...   A = range(2)
...   B = range(4)
...   s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in <genexpr>
NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
 >>> exit()

C:\test> _
</example>

Reason for the NameError:

The above is a /generator expression/, evaluated in a class definition.

The docs have a similar example but I'm sorry, I'm unable to find it! Anyway the 
generator expression is evaluated as if its code was put in function. And from 
within the scope of that function you can't access the class scope implicitly, 
hence, no access to 'B'.



> The exception above is especially confusing since the following similar example
> (I just replaced the generator by an explicit array) works:
> 
> class T:
>   A = range(2)
>   B = range(4)
>   s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
> 
> (BTW, the class scope declarations are intentional).
> 
> Thanks, Leo.

This is a /list comprehension/, not a generator expression (although 
syntactically it's almost the same).

It obeys different rules.

Essentially the generator expression produces a generator object that you may 
name or pass around as you wish, while the comprehension is just a syntactical 
device for writing more concisely some equivalent code that's generated inline.

However, apparently the rules changed between Python 2.x and Python 3.x.

In Python 3.x also the list comprehension fails in a class definition:


<example>
C:\test> py2
Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class T:
...   A = range(2)
...   B = range(4)
...   s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
...
 >>> exit()

C:\test> py3
Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class T:
...   A = range(2)
...   B = range(4)
...   s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in <listcomp>
NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
 >>> exit()

C:\test> _
</example>


 From one point of view it's good that Py3 provides about the same behavior for 
generator expressions and list comprehensions.

But I'd really like the above examples to Just Work. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de  Wed Feb 24 07:49:55 2010
From: gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de (Gereon Kaiping)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:49:55 +0100
Subject: Artificial Neural Networks recommendation
Message-ID: <4B852073.30500@yahoo.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

I'd like to use ANNs in python, especially Simple Recurrent Networks.

Ideally I'd like to find a quick, pythonic module that is able to
simulate different styles of network architectures including some types
of recurrent networks (must: SRN/Elman, may: other recurrent networks
like ESN or LSTM to experiment with them).

So far I found the following Python ANN modules:
- - PyNN (just a builder, requires external simulator) ?
http://neuralensemble.org/trac/PyNN/
- - Con-x (part of pyro) ? http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=Conx
- - PyNeurGen (includes genetic algorithms) ?
http://pyneurgen.sourceforge.net/
- - ffnet (only fast forward) ? http://ffnet.sourceforge.net/
- - brian (spiking networks) ? http://www.briansimulator.org/
- - PyBrain (machine learning) ? http://pybrain.org/

Can you give me a recommendation or a review on some of these? Are there
other modules for simulating ANNs?

Greetings,
Gereon

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkuFIHIACgkQFWJnZLsO/Wvp1ACfa2dhOd0b0SIVkOzZN0ebRJdd
WFQAoIttIDNbIuqViDbPeVyS+wtGj6tI
=N1oM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Wed Feb 24 08:11:32 2010
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:11:32 +0000
Subject: Artificial Neural Networks recommendation
References: <mailman.157.1267015802.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y6iird6j.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

Gereon Kaiping <gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de> writes:


> Are there other modules for simulating ANNs?

Fann <http://leenissen.dk/fann/> has python bindings.


From luismgz at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 08:41:08 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 8:48?am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> Luis M. Gonz lez a crit :
> (snip)
>
> > Alright, this is what the docs say about locals:
> > "Note
> > The built-in functions globals() and locals() return the current
> > global and local dictionary, respectively, which may be useful to pass
> > around for use as the second and third argument to exec().
>
> > Note
> > The default locals act as described for function locals() below:
> > modifications to the default locals dictionary should not be
> > attempted. Pass an explicit locals dictionary if you need to see
> > effects of the code on locals after function exec() returns."
>
> > I wonder why updating locals(), not from within a function, works (at
> > least in my interactive session).
>
> Because at the top level, locals and globals are the same thing.
>
> > And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal?
>
> It's legal, but it's (usually) a very bad idea - at the top-level, it
> harms readability, and from within a function it's doubly bad
> (readibility + "globals are evil").
>
> Now as usual with GoldenRules(tm), it's meant to be broken - once you do
> know why you shouldn't _usually_ do it.
>
> ? for the very same reasons global
>
>
>
> > If not, is
> > there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?
>
> > Luis

I still don't understand why is it a bad idea in the case of
globals().
This is the only way I know to define variables programatically in the
top-level namespace, without having to do it manually one by one.
I don't see the readability problem either.
Talking about Goldenrules(tm), what's the recomended way to do it?

Luis


From edreamleo at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 08:58:03 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:58:03 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7 final released
References: <ndn7o5trgoash2css41b0s0bu1hp88qkie@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3qbao5tflmcds61l1ngltaq12ogdlvo2e8@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:53:44 -0600, Edward K Ream
 <edreamleo at gmail.com> wrote:

A critical bug has been reported against Leo 4.7 final, and indeed all
previous versions of Leo 4.7.

The bug can cause loss of data in @file nodes when Leo 4.7 saves .leo
files created with older versions of Leo.

This bug will be fixed in Leo 4.7.1, due in a few days.  The bug has
already been fixed on Leo's trunk.

My apologies for any problems this bug may have caused.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 08:59:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:59:13 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm3bbt$hd8$1@dough.gmane.org>

At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 09:02:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:02:17 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B853169.6030904@holdenweb.com>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
>> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
> 
> That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
> supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?
> 
Interesting that you are willing to trust your gut feeling against an
established survey. All indexes are flawed, they are merely flawed in
different ways is all. I track TIOBE because it shows trends. Python's
absolute position on the list doesn't interest me so much.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 09:02:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:02:17 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B853169.6030904@holdenweb.com>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
>> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
> 
> That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
> supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?
> 
Interesting that you are willing to trust your gut feeling against an
established survey. All indexes are flawed, they are merely flawed in
different ways is all. I track TIOBE because it shows trends. Python's
absolute position on the list doesn't interest me so much.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 09:07:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:07:17 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <hm3br1$hd8$3@dough.gmane.org>

John Posner wrote:
> On 2/19/2010 2:25 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 2/19/2010 12:44 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>>
>>> Much to my embarrassment, sometime last night I realized I was being a
>>> complete idiot, and the 'correct' way to handle this in my scenario is
>>> really just:
>>>
>>> def initialize():
>>> # do one time processing here
>>>
>>> return []
>>>
>>> A generator is just a callable that returns an iterator, after all.
>>
>> Confusing generators and generator functions is, well, confusing.
>> For future reference, and clarity of communication in Pythonland,
>>
>> generator function: function that produces a generator when called; if
>> python coded, its body contains 'yield'.
>>
>> generator: iterator produced by a generator function;
> 
> I suggest:
> 
>  iterator produced by a generator function or a generator expression;
> 
> has .__next__ and
>> self-returning .__init__, like all other iterators.
>>
>> generator expression: an expression that evaluates to a generator; the
>> expression is used to create a temporary anonymous generator function
>> that is called to produce the generator and is then discarded.
> 
> Note that the Py2.6.4 documentation is inconsistent. AFAICT, it conforms
> to Terry's definitions above in most places. But the Glossary says:
> 
>  generator
>     A function which returns an iterator. <... more ...>
> 
>  generator expression
>     An expression that returns a generator.  <... more ...>
> 
> The additional verbiage in these definitions mitigates the damage, but I
> think the first entry should be headlined *generator function* instead
> of *generator*. And the Glossary should include Terry's additional entry
> [ as amended by me :-) ]:
> 
>  generator
>     An iterator produced by a generator function or a generator
>     expression.
> 
> -John
> 
+1. Can someone submit a documentation patch, please?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 09:32:43 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:32:43 -0400
Subject: Can't Connect To SMTP
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002240632h755b199bp1cf5c36b489aac07@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
I'm getting this error:

A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.

 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
   52 </head>
   53 <body>'''
   54 my_mail()
   55 print '''
   56 </body>
my_mail = <function my_mail>
 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
   33       to_address = ourEmail1,
   34       subject = subject,
   35       message = message
   36   ).send()
   37   Email(
message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
  344         smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
  345         if self.smtp_server:
  346             smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
  347         else:
  348             smtp.connect()
smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect of
<smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>, self.smtp_server
= 'localhost'
 /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
host='localhost', port=25)
  305         if not self.sock:
  306             raise socket.error, msg
  307         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
  308         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
  309         return (code, msg)
code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
<smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
<smtplib.SMTP instance>>
 /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>)
  349             if line == '':
  350                 self.close()
  351                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection unexpectedly
closed")
  352             if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
repr(line)
  353             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
      args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)

I'm having a hard time reading this and making sense of it. Please help me
understand where I should look to fix the problem.
TIA,
beno

-- 
The Logos has come to bear
http://logos.13gems.com/
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 24 09:44:41 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:44:41 +0100
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b853b4b$0$23448$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Luis M. Gonz?lez a ?crit :
> On Feb 24, 8:48 am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
> 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> Luis M. Gonz lez a crit :

>>
>>> And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal?
>> It's legal, but it's (usually) a very bad idea - at the top-level, it
>> harms readability, and from within a function it's doubly bad
>> (readibility + "globals are evil").
>>
>> Now as usual with GoldenRules(tm), it's meant to be broken - once you do
>> know why you shouldn't _usually_ do it.
>>
>>> If not, is
>>> there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?
> 
> I still don't understand why is it a bad idea in the case of
> globals().

please not the _usually_.

> This is the only way I know to define variables programatically  in the
> top-level namespace,  without having to do it manually one by one.

> I don't see the readability problem either.

# wrong.py

x = 42

def bar():
    return x + 1


def test():
    y = bar()
    assert y==43

# snip 1kloc

def foo():
    globals()[x] = 43
    quux()

# snip some more core

def quux():
    globals()[y] = 1138

# snip some more core

if __name__ == '__main__':
    foo()


Enjoy...

> Talking about Goldenrules(tm), what's the recomended way to do it?

The "recommanded way" is
1/ to avoid using globals to share state whenever possible
2/ to avoid creating globals from a function

If your problem is to conditionnaly define globals (based on environment 
value or whatnot), then just write the conditional at the top level.

Now I don't say there's no legitimate use case for updating the global 
namespace from within a function - just that this is a very very very 
rare beast (never meet her as far as I'm concerned, and I did write some 
hairy code), and even then is BadEnough(tm) to require a good documentation.

FWIW, your example seemed to be about updating the global namespace from 
within a function just to have the names available in the function, 
which is about the worst possible solution to the OP problem.

wrt/ the OP question, mapping a sequence of values to a sequence of 
names is a legitimate concern, but you just dont need to define these 
names in the local namespace to use them - just stick'em in a dict and 
you're fine.



From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 24 09:48:32 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:48:32 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hm3br1$hd8$3@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net> <hm3br1$hd8$3@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B853C40.5090307@optimum.net>

On 2/24/2010 9:07 AM, Steve Holden wrote:
> John Posner wrote:

>> Note that the Py2.6.4 documentation is inconsistent. AFAICT, it conforms
>> to Terry's definitions above in most places. But the Glossary says:
>>
>>   generator
>>      A function which returns an iterator.<... more ...>
>>
>>   generator expression
>>      An expression that returns a generator.<... more ...>
>>
>> The additional verbiage in these definitions mitigates the damage, but I
>> think the first entry should be headlined *generator function* instead
>> of *generator*. And the Glossary should include Terry's additional entry
>> [ as amended by me :-) ]:
>>
>>   generator
>>      An iterator produced by a generator function or a generator
>>      expression.
>>
>> -John
>>
> +1. Can someone submit a documentation patch, please?
>

Will do.  -John


From phoghawk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:40:55 2010
From: phoghawk at gmail.com (b3ng0)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:40:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <4308848c-b38f-4e45-bf01-8c4d2b3dcb7c@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 5:52?am, Nomen Nescio <nob... at dizum.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?
>
> class T:
> ? A = range(2)
> ? B = range(4)
> ? s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
>
> It produces the exception:
>
> <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined
>
> The exception above is especially confusing since the following similar example (I just replaced the generator by an explicit array) works:
>
> class T:
> ? A = range(2)
> ? B = range(4)
> ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
>
> (BTW, the class scope declarations are intentional).
>
> Thanks, Leo.

The best way to mimic the same behavior, while getting around the
scoping issues, would be as follows:

class T:
    A = range(2)
    B = range(4)

    @property
    def s(self):
        return sum(i*j for i in self.A for j in self.B)

T().s will now return 6


From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:45:05 2010
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:45:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <aaf19f1e-d166-4e3d-95cb-519512f634d5@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 12:21?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * Nomen Nescio:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?
>
> > class T:
> > ? A = range(2)
> > ? B = range(4)
> > ? s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
>
> > It produces the exception:
>
> > <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined
>
> Which Python implementation are you using?
>
> I can't reproduce the error message that you cite.
>
> <example>
> C:\test> py2
> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in <genexpr>
> NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
> ?>>> exit()
>
> C:\test> py3
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in <genexpr>
> NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
> ?>>> exit()
>
> C:\test> _
> </example>
>
> Reason for the NameError:
>
> The above is a /generator expression/, evaluated in a class definition.
>
> The docs have a similar example but I'm sorry, I'm unable to find it! Anyway the
> generator expression is evaluated as if its code was put in function. And from
> within the scope of that function you can't access the class scope implicitly,
> hence, no access to 'B'.
>
> > The exception above is especially confusing since the following similar example
> > (I just replaced the generator by an explicit array) works:
>
> > class T:
> > ? A = range(2)
> > ? B = range(4)
> > ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
>
> > (BTW, the class scope declarations are intentional).
>
> > Thanks, Leo.
>
> This is a /list comprehension/, not a generator expression (although
> syntactically it's almost the same).
>
> It obeys different rules.
>
> Essentially the generator expression produces a generator object that you may
> name or pass around as you wish, while the comprehension is just a syntactical
> device for writing more concisely some equivalent code that's generated inline.
>
> However, apparently the rules changed between Python 2.x and Python 3.x.
>
> In Python 3.x also the list comprehension fails in a class definition:
>
> <example>
> C:\test> py2
> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
> ...
> ?>>> exit()
>
> C:\test> py3
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in <listcomp>
> NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
> ?>>> exit()
>
> C:\test> _
> </example>
>
> ?From one point of view it's good that Py3 provides about the same behavior for
> generator expressions and list comprehensions.
>
> But I'd really like the above examples to Just Work. :-)
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf


s = sum( i*j for i,j in iterools.product(A, B) ) is a possible work
around.

Which could generalise to (something like):

s = sum( reduce(op.mul, seq) for seq in product(A, B, B, A) )

Cheers,

Jon.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:57:34 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:57:34 -0600
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <hm28pe$sj0$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>	<mailman.150.1266979970.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm28pe$sj0$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm3i9f$dt1$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 22:09 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-02-24, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>>> comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion
>>
>> Which doesn't exist and never will. Sorry, but
>> meta-discussions about the group are typically on-topic for
>> all groups with some few exceptions (e.g.  non-discussion,
>> binary-only groups with associated .d groups, for instance).
>
> Since now we are discussing meta-discussions, is this now a
> meta-meta-discussion?

If you like, but I tend to interpret "meta-" as idempotent. It's easier on my 
aspirin budget.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From parkerp at example.net  Wed Feb 24 11:05:42 2010
From: parkerp at example.net (Peter Parker)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:05:42 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.158.1267019990.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm3io1$ble$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
> At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011
> 

At December 21, 2012 at 11:11 am (according to the Maya calendar)


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 11:14:00 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:14:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <3f3ce996-7fc3-4c19-9397-e1db8f911aa4@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>



Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?
>
> class T:
>   A = range(2)
>   B = range(4)
>   s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
>
> It produces the exception:
>
> <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined

It's due to scoping rules for classes and/or how generator expressions
are compiled.  When a function definition is executed from within the
body of a class, the body of the class doesn't act as an outer scope
for it.  E.g.

class A:
    x = 2
    def f(self): return x

When f is defined (technically, when the closure is made), the name
'x' is not bound to 2 but is considered to be in the global namespace
(unless the class is defined within a function for example).  Now
generator expressions are defined as generator functions so your
example is akin to something like:

class T:
     A = range(2)
     B = range(4)
     def _gen(L):
          for i in L:
              for j in B:
                  yield i*j
     s = sum(_gen(A))

(From memory, I might be wrong on some details)

Now looking at the above, when _gen is defined, B is considered to be
belonging to the global namespace, therefore if it is not defined
there a NameError will be thrown.

Now a safe workaround to this would be:

class T:
   A = range(2)
   B = range(4)
   s = (lambda A=A, B=B: sum(i*j for i in A for j in B))()

The lambda form is evaluated when the body of the class is executed,
binding the names A and B to the objects you want in the generator
expression.

I remember suggesting a while ago that all generator expressions be
implicitely wrapped like the one above in order to avoid such
surprises.  I can't quite remember what the arguments against were,
but you can probably find them in the archives!

--
Arnaud


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Feb 24 11:38:57 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:38:57 +0000
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm3io1$ble$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.158.1267019990.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3io1$ble$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm3kmv$p8c$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/24/10 16:05, Peter Parker wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011
>>
>
> At December 21, 2012 at 11:11 am (according to the Maya calendar)

On August 29, 1997, Java became mainstream. In a panic, Microsoft tried 
to embrace, extend and exterminate the system, prompting Sun to 
retaliate with a lawsuit, knowing that Microsoft's counterattack would 
eliminate all its main competitors in the U.S. This initiates an 
indeterminately long period of new language development culminating in a 
battle against corporate monopoly, which gained ever-increasing 
capabilities of FUD.

-- 
mph


From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Wed Feb 24 12:07:07 2010
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:07:07 -0300
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
Message-ID: <9e2f512b1002240907v66682f1fi7d4d4c7d2dabd880@mail.gmail.com>

c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%:keys%'",{'keys':keywords})

This query returns empty. When it is executed, keywords = 'harvest'.
To check it, I do it on the command line and it works as expected:

sqlite> SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%harvest%';
11C
11D
12F

I guess there is a problem with the "%".


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:09:24 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:09:24 -0400
Subject: SMTPServerDisconnected
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002240909u6a82926l4c82ec3adf9a9192@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi;
> > I think the last main thing I have to do on my server is get a running
> email
> > server up. Now that I've nuked sendmail and given up on postfix, I'm back
> to
> > trying to get qmail up and running again. Of course, there are no active
> > discussion lists for *any* email server, so I have to turn here for help.
> > While running a script that worked perfectly well on another server to
> send
> > an email, I get the following error:
> > A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> > calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> > A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> > calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
> >    52 </head>
> >    53 <body>'''
> >    54 my_mail()
> >    55 print '''
> >    56 </body>
> > my_mail = <function my_mail>
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
> >    33       to_address = ourEmail1,
> >    34       subject = subject,
> >    35       message = message
> >    36   ).send()
> >    37   Email(
> > message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
> > send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
> >   344         smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
> >   345         if self.smtp_server:
> >   346             smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
> >   347         else:
> >   348             smtp.connect()
> > smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect
> of
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>,
> self.smtp_server
> > = 'localhost'
> >  /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
> > host='localhost', port=25)
> >   305         if not self.sock:
> >   306             raise socket.error, msg
> >   307         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
> >   308         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
> >   309         return (code, msg)
> > code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>>
> >  /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP
> instance>)
> >   349             if line == '':
> >   350                 self.close()
> >   351                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection
> unexpectedly
> > closed")
> >   352             if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
> > repr(line)
> >   353             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
> > global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
> > SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
> >       args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)
> > I cannot find the qmail logs. I assumed they'd be in either
> > /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send
> > or
> > /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-smtpd
> > but I find no logs there.
> >
> > [SSH] Protocol Version 2 (OpenSSH_4.3)
> > [SSH] Cipher: aes128-cbc
> > Logged in (password)
> > Last login: Tue Feb 23 05:24:00 2010 from 66.248.168.67
> > [beno at 13gems ~]$ su
> > Password:
> > [root at 13gems beno]# man netstat
> > [root at 13gems beno]# netstat
> > Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
> > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address               Foreign Address
> > State
> > getnameinfo failed
> > tcp        0    268 nrelectric.com:ssh          [UNKNOWN]:61912
> > ESTABLISHED
> > Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
> > Proto RefCnt Flags       Type       State         I-Node Path
> > unix  7      [ ]         DGRAM                    10842  /dev/log
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10370
> >  @/org/kernel/udev/udevd
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077731
> > unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077679
> > unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077678
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077675
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11556
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11511
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10990
> > [root at 13gems beno]#
> >
> > How do I trouble-shoot this?
>
> Try connecting to the port that is supposed to accept mail messages
> via telnet and issue a few SMTP commands.
>

Oops. I just realized I posted this twice to the same forum. My bad. I have
advanced on this somewhat. I have gotten email from my server, so I know
that smtp is in fact working. But I'm still getting this error. What do?
TIA,
beno
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From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:10:37 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:10:37 -0400
Subject: SMTPServerDisconnected
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002240910k6e236cf1pd068bd6c3fd08bbc@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi;
> > I think the last main thing I have to do on my server is get a running
> email
> > server up. Now that I've nuked sendmail and given up on postfix, I'm back
> to
> > trying to get qmail up and running again. Of course, there are no active
> > discussion lists for *any* email server, so I have to turn here for help.
> > While running a script that worked perfectly well on another server to
> send
> > an email, I get the following error:
> > A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> > calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> > A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> > calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
> >    52 </head>
> >    53 <body>'''
> >    54 my_mail()
> >    55 print '''
> >    56 </body>
> > my_mail = <function my_mail>
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
> >    33       to_address = ourEmail1,
> >    34       subject = subject,
> >    35       message = message
> >    36   ).send()
> >    37   Email(
> > message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
> > send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
> >   344         smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
> >   345         if self.smtp_server:
> >   346             smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
> >   347         else:
> >   348             smtp.connect()
> > smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect
> of
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>,
> self.smtp_server
> > = 'localhost'
> >  /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
> > host='localhost', port=25)
> >   305         if not self.sock:
> >   306             raise socket.error, msg
> >   307         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
> >   308         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
> >   309         return (code, msg)
> > code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>>
> >  /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP
> instance>)
> >   349             if line == '':
> >   350                 self.close()
> >   351                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection
> unexpectedly
> > closed")
> >   352             if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
> > repr(line)
> >   353             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
> > global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
> > SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
> >       args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)
> > I cannot find the qmail logs. I assumed they'd be in either
> > /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send
> > or
> > /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-smtpd
> > but I find no logs there.
> >
> > [SSH] Protocol Version 2 (OpenSSH_4.3)
> > [SSH] Cipher: aes128-cbc
> > Logged in (password)
> > Last login: Tue Feb 23 05:24:00 2010 from 66.248.168.67
> > [beno at 13gems ~]$ su
> > Password:
> > [root at 13gems beno]# man netstat
> > [root at 13gems beno]# netstat
> > Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
> > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address               Foreign Address
> > State
> > getnameinfo failed
> > tcp        0    268 nrelectric.com:ssh          [UNKNOWN]:61912
> > ESTABLISHED
> > Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
> > Proto RefCnt Flags       Type       State         I-Node Path
> > unix  7      [ ]         DGRAM                    10842  /dev/log
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10370
> >  @/org/kernel/udev/udevd
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077731
> > unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077679
> > unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077678
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077675
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11556
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11511
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10990
> > [root at 13gems beno]#
> >
> > How do I trouble-shoot this?
>
> Try connecting to the port that is supposed to accept mail messages
> via telnet and issue a few SMTP commands.
>

Oops. I just realized I sent this question twice to the same forum. My bad.
I have received email from my server, but I'm still getting this same error.
How trouble-shoot?
TIA,
beno
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From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 24 12:15:08 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:15:08 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4B853C40.5090307@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net> <hm3br1$hd8$3@dough.gmane.org>
	<4B853C40.5090307@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4B855E9C.5040502@optimum.net>

>>> generator
>>> An iterator produced by a generator function or a generator
>>> expression.
>>>
>>> -John
>>>
>> +1. Can someone submit a documentation patch, please?
>>
>
> Will do. -John

[sorry if this is a dup]

Done: #8012 "Revise generator-related Glossary entries"

-John



From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:21:11 2010
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:21:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
References: <mailman.165.1267031245.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6118c46-8717-41f6-abc8-60c35b204c89@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 5:07?pm, Sebastian Bassi <sba... at clubdelarazon.org> wrote:
> c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%:keys%'",{'keys':keywords})
>
> This query returns empty. When it is executed, keywords = 'harvest'.
> To check it, I do it on the command line and it works as expected:
>
> sqlite> SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%harvest%';
> 11C
> 11D
> 12F
>
> I guess there is a problem with the "%".


You might want:
c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins where qtl like $keys", {'keys':
keywords} )

Cheers,

Jon.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:23:17 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:23:17 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hm3na4$46s$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 03:50, Paul Rubin wrote:
> The stuff about converting 4 random bytes to a decimal string and then
> peeling off 2 digits at a time is pretty awful, and notice that since
> 2**32 is 4294967296, in the cases where you get 10 digits, the first
> 2-digit pair is never higher than 42.

Yikes! I didn't think about that. This is probably where (some part of) 
probability skewing comes from.

Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted 
from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for them, 
so they will not have to remember and type them in. So I have little in 
the way of limitations of password length - even though in *some* cases 
somebody might have to (or be ignorant enough) to retype the password 
instead of pasting it in.

In that case the "diceware" approach is not necessary, even though I 
will certainly remember this approach for a case when users will have to 
remember & type the passwords in.

The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so the 
main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords using 
brute force.

Using A-z with 10-char password seems to provide 3 orders of magnitude 
more combinations than a-z:

 >>> 57 ** 10
362033331456891249L
 >>> 25 ** 10
95367431640625L

Even though I'm not sure it is worth it, assuming 1000 brute-force 
guesses per second (which over the web would amount pretty much to DOS), 
this would take # days:

 >>> 57 ** 10 / (1000 * 3600 * 24)
4190200595L
 >>> 25 ** 10 / (1000 * 3600 * 24)
1103789L

Even then I'm not getting completely uniform distribution for some reason:

d 39411
l 39376
f 39288
a 39275
s 39225
r 39172
p 39159
t 39073
k 39071
u 39064
e 39005
o 39005
n 38995
j 38993
h 38975
q 38958
c 38938
b 38906
g 38894
i 38847
m 38819
v 38712
z 35321
y 35228
w 35189
x 35075

Code:

import operator

def gen_rand_word(n):
     with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
         return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n)])

def count_chars(chardict, word):
     for c in word:
         try:
             chardict[c] += 1
         except KeyError:
             chardict[c] = 0

if __name__ == "__main__":
     chardict = {}
     for i in range(100000):
         w = gen_rand_word(10)
         count_chars(chardict, w)
     counts = list(chardict.items())
     counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
     for char, count in counts:
         print char, count

> I'd write your code something like this:
>
>      nletters = 5
>
>      def randomword(n):
>          with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
>              return ''.join([chr(ord('a')+ord(c)%26) for c in f.read(n)])
>
>      print randomword(nletters)

Aw shucks when will I learn to do the stuff in 3 lines well instead of 
20, poorly. :-/

Regards,
mk





From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:29:22 2010
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:29:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
References: <mailman.165.1267031245.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<a6118c46-8717-41f6-abc8-60c35b204c89@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4069d47-f5b2-4899-83d2-db7ae5b5b2b9@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 5:21?pm, Jon Clements <jon... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 5:07?pm, Sebastian Bassi <sba... at clubdelarazon.org> wrote:
>
> > c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%:keys%'",{'keys':keywords})
>
> > This query returns empty. When it is executed, keywords = 'harvest'.
> > To check it, I do it on the command line and it works as expected:
>
> > sqlite> SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%harvest%';
> > 11C
> > 11D
> > 12F
>
> > I guess there is a problem with the "%".
>
> You might want:
> c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins where qtl like $keys", {'keys':
> keywords} )
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jon.

As soon as I posted that, the $ didn't look right; the docs use :keys
syntax.

Cheers,

Jon.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:30:20 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:30:20 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <dd162444-4788-4d6c-b30a-04ae32faf1dc@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.111.1266936500.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<dd162444-4788-4d6c-b30a-04ae32faf1dc@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm3nnb$5rr$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 03:26, George Sakkis wrote:
>> Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this:
>>
>> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav...
>>
>> This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword "Java" appears.
>>
>> Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now:
>>
>> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh...
>
> This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other
> countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g.
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23&l=

Interesting, and I was thinking that UK sample was big enough for such 
things not to matter.

Regards,
mk



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb 24 12:32:59 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:32:59 -0300
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkum2p$4i0$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2331.1265841480.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1n2en51qqliplc2u8q78l3gt2dn3vmeh8d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8m609v2x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:29:45 -0300, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> escribi?:
> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>>
>> The original problem was with the RDTSC instruction on multicore CPUs;
>> different cores may yield different results because they're not
>> synchronized at all times.
>
> Not true.  The synchronization issue has two causes:  initial
> synchronization at boot time, and power management making microscopic
> adjustments to the clock rate.  In Windows NT 4, Microsoft took extra  
> pains
> to adjust the cycle counters on multiprocessor computers during boot so
> that the processors started out very close together.  Once set, they
> naturally remained in lock step, until aggressive power management  
> because
> more prevalent.  In XP, they stopped trying to align at boot time.

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From spam at removethis.btinternet.com  Wed Feb 24 12:39:19 2010
From: spam at removethis.btinternet.com (Abigail)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:39:19 -0000
Subject: Noob raw_input question
Message-ID: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>

Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some 
examples but I have hit a problem

>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
    a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number 
")

What am I doing wrong?




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:47:11 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:47:11 +0100
Subject: Intra-package C extensions with freeze.py
In-Reply-To: <4B4E2497.20809@gmail.com>
References: <4B4E2497.20809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm3omt$8jf$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-01-13 20:52, Pascal Chambon wrote:

> I've managed to solve that by manually "monkey patching" sys.modules,
> before fusemodule's actual import. But this looks like an unsatisfying
> solution, to me.

Geez..

> Does anyone have a clue about how to freeze a python program cleanly, in
> case such inner C extensions are involved ? Does any of the freezers
> (freeze.py, py2exe, pyrex, cx_freeze...) do that ? I haven't seen such
> things so far in their docs.

Go for pyinstaller, I have successfully packaged an app using compiled C 
extensions this way. Although you will have to add those extensions in 
"hook" script.

Regards,
mk



From comptekki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:49:08 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:49:08 -0700
Subject: WANTED: Regular expressions for breaking TeX/LaTeX document into 
	tokens
In-Reply-To: <hm34is$k0v$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>
References: <hm34is$k0v$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002240949o4f98d294u9174b4d32cd154b1@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:03 AM, Jonathan Fine <J.Fine at open.ac.uk> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Does anyone know of a collection of regular expressions that will break a
> TeX/LaTeX document into tokens? ?Assume that there is no verbatim or other
> category code changes.

I'm not sure how this does it, but it might help:

http://plastex.sourceforge.net/plastex/sect0025.html

-wes


From bornstub at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:49:18 2010
From: bornstub at gmail.com (Victor Lin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:49:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A tool for find dependencies relationships behind Python projects
References: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.61.1266856327.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f2c32233-ab42-40b4-87ec-89130eb18d86@c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On 2?23?, ??12?32?, Hellmut Weber <m... at hellmutweber.de> wrote:
> Hi Victor,
> I would be intereseted to use your tool ;-)
>
> My system is Sabayon-5.1 on Lenovo T61.
> Trying for the first time easy_install I get the following error:
>
> ====================
>
> root at sylvester ~ # easy_install gluttony
> Searching for gluttony
> Readinghttp://pypi.python.org/simple/gluttony/
> Readinghttp://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
> Best match: Gluttony 0.3
>
> Downloadinghttp://pypi.python.org/packages/source/G/Gluttony/Gluttony-0.3.zip#md...
>
> Processing Gluttony-0.3.zip
> Running Gluttony-0.3/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir
> /tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/egg-dist-tmp-CJI_LD
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "/usr/bin/easy_install", line 9, in <module>
> ? ? ?load_entry_point('distribute==0.6.8', 'console_scripts',
> 'easy_install')()
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1708, in main
> ? ? ?with_ei_usage(lambda:
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1696, in with_ei_usage
> ? ? ?return f()
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1712, in <lambda>
> ? ? ?distclass=DistributionWithoutHelpCommands, **kw
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/core.py", line 152, in setup
> ? ? ?dist.run_commands()
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 975, in run_commands
> ? ? ?self.run_command(cmd)
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 995, in run_command
> ? ? ?cmd_obj.run()
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 236, in run
> ? ? ?self.easy_install(spec, not self.no_deps)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 471, in easy_install
> ? ? ?return self.install_item(spec, dist.location, tmpdir, deps)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 501, in install_item
> ? ? ?dists = self.install_eggs(spec, download, tmpdir)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 680, in install_eggs
> ? ? ?return self.build_and_install(setup_script, setup_base)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 957, in build_and_install
> ? ? ?self.run_setup(setup_script, setup_base, args)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 946, in run_setup
> ? ? ?run_setup(setup_script, args)
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line
> 29, in run_setup
> ? ? ?lambda: execfile(
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line
> 70, in run
> ? ? ?return func()
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line
> 31, in <lambda>
> ? ? ?{'__file__':setup_script, '__name__':'__main__'}
> ? ?File "setup.py", line 9, in <module>
> ? ?File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/__init__.py",
> line 1, in <module>
> ? ? ?#
> ? ?File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/gluttony.py",
> line 13, in <module>
> ImportError: No module named pip.log
> root at sylvester ~ #
>
> ====================
>
> I emerged app-misc/pip, but that didn't help, the error remains the same
>
> What is missing?
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> Best regards
>
> Hellmut
>
> Am 19.02.2010 17:16, schrieb Victor Lin:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I just wrote a tool for drawing dependencies relationships diagram of
> > Python project on Pypi. ?Here is the home page of the tool:
>
> >http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
>
> > Some examples:
> > Sprox:
> >http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/sprox_dot.png
>
> > TurboGears2:
> >http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/tg2_dot.png
>
> > Hope this could be helpful :P
>
> > Regards.
> > Victor Lin.
>
> --
> Dr. Hellmut Weber ? ? ? ? m... at hellmutweber.de
> Degenfeldstra?e 2 ? ? ? ? tel ? +49-89-3081172
> D-80803 M?nchen-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
> please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq

Hi,

That is a mistake I made in when I am making the distribute.  Thanks
your reporting.  I have already fixed the problem and released
Gluttony 0.4, and I tried to install that, it works fine.

Victor Lin.


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 12:56:03 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:03 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 24.02.2010 18:23, schrieb mk:
> Even then I'm not getting completely uniform distribution for some reason:
> d 39411
> l 39376
> f 39288
> a 39275
> s 39225
> r 39172
> p 39159
> t 39073
> k 39071
> u 39064
> e 39005
> o 39005
> n 38995
> j 38993
> h 38975
> q 38958
> c 38938
> b 38906
> g 38894
> i 38847
> m 38819
> v 38712
> z 35321
> y 35228
> w 35189
> x 35075
>
> Code:
>
> import operator
>
> def gen_rand_word(n):
> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n)])

The reason is 256 % 26 != 0
256 mod 26 equals 22, thus your code is hitting a-v about 10% (256/26 is 
approx. 10) more often than w-z. You might want to skip the values 0-22 
to achieve a truly uniform distribution.

FYI: Electronic Cash PINs in europe (dont know about the rest of the 
world) were computed the same way (random hexdigit and just mod it when 
it's too large) leading to a high probability that your first digit was 
a 1 :)

Regards,
Michael


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 12:59:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:59:53 -0500
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3na4$46s$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<hm3na4$46s$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3pf9$c57$1@dough.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 03:50, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> The stuff about converting 4 random bytes to a decimal string and then
>> peeling off 2 digits at a time is pretty awful, and notice that since
>> 2**32 is 4294967296, in the cases where you get 10 digits, the first
>> 2-digit pair is never higher than 42.
> 
> Yikes! I didn't think about that. This is probably where (some part of)
> probability skewing comes from.
> 
> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for them,
> so they will not have to remember and type them in. So I have little in
> the way of limitations of password length - even though in *some* cases
> somebody might have to (or be ignorant enough) to retype the password
> instead of pasting it in.
> 
> In that case the "diceware" approach is not necessary, even though I
> will certainly remember this approach for a case when users will have to
> remember & type the passwords in.
> 
> The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so the
> main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords using
> brute force.
> 
> Using A-z with 10-char password seems to provide 3 orders of magnitude
> more combinations than a-z:
> 
>>>> 57 ** 10
> 362033331456891249L
>>>> 25 ** 10
> 95367431640625L
> 
> Even though I'm not sure it is worth it, assuming 1000 brute-force
> guesses per second (which over the web would amount pretty much to DOS),
> this would take # days:
> 
>>>> 57 ** 10 / (1000 * 3600 * 24)
> 4190200595L
>>>> 25 ** 10 / (1000 * 3600 * 24)
> 1103789L
> 
> Even then I'm not getting completely uniform distribution for some reason:
> 
> d 39411
> l 39376
> f 39288
> a 39275
> s 39225
> r 39172
> p 39159
> t 39073
> k 39071
> u 39064
> e 39005
> o 39005
> n 38995
> j 38993
> h 38975
> q 38958
> c 38938
> b 38906
> g 38894
> i 38847
> m 38819
> v 38712
> z 35321
> y 35228
> w 35189
> x 35075
> 
> Code:
> 
> import operator
> 
> def gen_rand_word(n):
>     with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
>         return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n)])
> 
> def count_chars(chardict, word):
>     for c in word:
>         try:
>             chardict[c] += 1
>         except KeyError:
>             chardict[c] = 0
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     chardict = {}
>     for i in range(100000):
>         w = gen_rand_word(10)
>         count_chars(chardict, w)
>     counts = list(chardict.items())
>     counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
>     for char, count in counts:
>         print char, count
> 
>> I'd write your code something like this:
>>
>>      nletters = 5
>>
>>      def randomword(n):
>>          with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
>>              return ''.join([chr(ord('a')+ord(c)%26) for c in f.read(n)])
>>
>>      print randomword(nletters)
> 
> Aw shucks when will I learn to do the stuff in 3 lines well instead of
> 20, poorly. :-/
> 
When you've got as much experience as Paul?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 13:12:59 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:12:59 +0100
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
In-Reply-To: <mailman.165.1267031245.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.165.1267031245.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B856C2B.3070502@nospam.web.de>

Am 24.02.10 18:07, schrieb Sebastian Bassi:
> c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%:keys%'",{'keys':keywords})
>
> This query returns empty. When it is executed, keywords = 'harvest'.
> To check it, I do it on the command line and it works as expected:
>
> sqlite>  SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%harvest%';
> 11C
> 11D
> 12F
>
> I guess there is a problem with the "%".

You aren't supposed to put ' into the query. The thing you pass needs to 
be the full literal.

Use

c.execute("select ... qtl like :keys", dict(keys="%%%s%%" % keywords))


Diez


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 13:13:28 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:13:28 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3pf9$c57$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<hm3na4$46s$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3pf9$c57$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3q86$euv$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 18:59, Steve Holden wrote:

>> Aw shucks when will I learn to do the stuff in 3 lines well instead of
>> 20, poorly. :-/
>>
> When you've got as much experience as Paul?

And how much experience does Paul have? (this is mostly not a facile 
question)

For my part, my more serious effort (on and off) with programming in 
Python is under a year.

Regards,
mk



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Feb 24 13:16:18 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:16:18 -0800
Subject: Noob raw_input question
In-Reply-To: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002241016w54c75270n25200a60279d050@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Abigail <spam at removethis.btinternet.com> wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some
> examples but I have hit a problem
>
>>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number
> ")
>
> What am I doing wrong?

raw_input() got renamed to just input().
Please read the 3.x transition docs at
http://docs.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.0.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 24 13:18:27 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:18:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
Message-ID: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>




I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
it!

Is my memory playing me a trick?

After all, from what I've seen since then, the practice of
triple-quote-commenting (or TQC, pardon the TCA) is in fact quite
common.

Is TQC OK after all?

If not, what's the case against it?

Also, has the BDFL expressed an opinion on the subject?  Alternatively,
is there any other more or less "authoritative" opinion on TQC? 

TIA!

~K

P.S.  I can think of at least one reason to avoid TQC: it has
basically the same problems with nesting that C's /**/ has.  (Sure,
in the case of TQC one could use "the other" triple quote, but it's
not hard to see that this workaround goes only so far.)  But this
reason does not seem to bother many programmers, most of whom,
after all, cut their teeth with C and /**/.

P.S.2 I'm disregarding "it's un-Pythonic" as a reason against TQC,
because it's not the kind of reason that carries much weight out
here "in the trenches", as I've discovered.  But, yes, I happen to
think that TQC is un-Pythonic.  After all, in my programming
environment, it takes half as many keystrokes to comment a block
of code with # than it does with """.  I imagine that any decent
programming environment makes #-commenting at least as easy.
Therefore, there goes convenience as an argument in defense of TQC.
Which leaves TMTOWTDI as the only possible defense for TQC, and
TMTOWTDI is pretty un-Pythonic, no?  :)


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 13:21:08 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:21:08 -0600
Subject: Noob raw_input question
In-Reply-To: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <hm3qmk$h1d$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 11:39 AM, Abigail wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some
> examples but I have hit a problem
>
>>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in<module>
>      a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number
> ")
>
> What am I doing wrong?

Python 3 changed the name of raw_input() to input() (and the old input() method 
that evaluates the string was simply thrown out as being redundant and unsafe).

http://docs.python.org/dev/3.0/whatsnew/3.0.html

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 24 13:29:06 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:29:06 -0500
Subject: Noob raw_input question
In-Reply-To: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <hm3r4o$jfa$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/24/2010 12:39 PM, Abigail wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some
> examples but I have hit a problem
>
>>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in<module>
>      a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number
> ")
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
>

The Python 2 built-in function "raw_input" has been renamed to "input" 
in Python 3. You'll probably run into this, too:

  Python 2: print "hello, world"
  Python 3: print("hello, world")

You might want to install Python 2 if you're working your way through a 
tutorial that's targeted at that "generation" of the language.

-John




From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 13:33:11 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:33:11 -0500
Subject: Noob raw_input question
In-Reply-To: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <hm3rdo$k9m$1@dough.gmane.org>

Abigail wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some 
> examples but I have hit a problem
> 
>>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
>     a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number 
> ")
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> 
In Python 3 raw_input() is now simply called input()

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From spam at removethis.btinternet.com  Wed Feb 24 13:33:26 2010
From: spam at removethis.btinternet.com (Abigail)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:33:26 -0000
Subject: Noob raw_input question
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <v72dnQzFgql27RjWnZ2dnUVZ7oKdnZ2d@bt.com>

Thank You 




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 13:35:11 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:35:11 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 18:56, Michael Rudolf wrote:

> The reason is 256 % 26 != 0
> 256 mod 26 equals 22, thus your code is hitting a-v about 10% (256/26 is
> approx. 10) more often than w-z.

<Barbie voice>writing secure code is hard...

I'm going to switch to PHP: Python world wouldn't lose much, but PHP 
would gain a lot.

> You might want to skip the values 0-22
> to achieve a truly uniform distribution.

Hmm perhaps you meant to skip values over 256 - 22 ? Bc I'm getting this 
(reduced the run to 1000 generated strings):

def gen_rand_word(n):
     with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
         return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) 
if ord(x) > 22])


z 3609
b 3608
s 3567
e 3559
j 3556
r 3555
g 3548
p 3540
m 3538
q 3532
h 3528
y 3526
v 3524
i 3500
x 3496
c 3488
k 3488
l 3487
u 3487
a 3469
o 3465
d 3455
t 3439
f 3437
n 3417
w 3175

While with this:

def gen_rand_word(n):
     with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
         return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) 
if ord(x) < 235])

a 3852
w 3630
s 3623
v 3582
y 3569
p 3568
c 3558
k 3558
b 3556
r 3553
x 3546
m 3534
n 3522
o 3515
h 3510
d 3505
u 3487
t 3486
i 3482
f 3477
e 3474
g 3460
q 3453
l 3437
z 3386
j 3382

1. I'm systematically getting 'a' outlier: have no idea why for now.

2. This is somewhat better (except 'a') but still not uniform.


> FYI: Electronic Cash PINs in europe (dont know about the rest of the
> world) were computed the same way (random hexdigit and just mod it when
> it's too large) leading to a high probability that your first digit was
> a 1 :)

Schadenfreude is deriving joy from others' misfortunes; what is the 
German word, if any, for deriving solace from others' misfortunes? ;-)

Regards,
mk




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:01:03 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:01:03 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 12:35 PM, mk wrote:

> While with this:
>
> def gen_rand_word(n):
> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) if ord(x)
> < 235])
>
> a 3852
...

> 1. I'm systematically getting 'a' outlier: have no idea why for now.
>
> 2. This is somewhat better (except 'a') but still not uniform.

I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead of 
trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rantingrick at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:03:52 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:03:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <662efb8d-0ae0-4d98-b52e-9cc03ef77d80@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 12:18?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect. ?But now I can't find
> it!

Your going to get many opinions on this subject but my stance is --
use quotes for stings and hash chars for comments -- thats the end of
it for me ;)


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 14:09:43 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:09:43 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.183.1267038080.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xiq9mtpqg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice()
> instead of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.

SystemRandom is something pretty new so I wasn't aware of it.  But
yeah, if I were thinking more clearly I would have suggested os.urandom
instead of opening /dev/urandom.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:09:59 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:09:59 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.

Oh I hear you -- for production use I would (will) certainly consider 
this. However, now I'm interested in the problem itself: why is the damn 
distribution not uniform?

Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:12:09 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:12:09 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B857A09.7040707@gmail.com>


Get a decent editor, like PyScripter, and press Ctrl-' (toggle comment).

Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:12:09 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:12:09 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B857A09.7040707@gmail.com>


Get a decent editor, like PyScripter, and press Ctrl-' (toggle comment).

Regards,
mk





From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:16:24 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:16:24 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3tu6$ue5$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.

Out of curiosity:

def gen_rand_string(length):
     prng = random.SystemRandom()
     chars = []
     for i in range(length):
         chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
     return ''.join(chars)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     chardict = {}
     for i in range(10000):
##        w = gen_rand_word(10)
         w = gen_rand_string(10)
         count_chars(chardict, w)
     counts = list(chardict.items())
     counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
     for char, count in counts:
         print char, count


s 3966
d 3912
g 3909
h 3905
a 3901
u 3900
q 3891
m 3888
k 3884
b 3878
x 3875
v 3867
w 3864
y 3851
l 3825
z 3821
c 3819
e 3819
r 3816
n 3808
o 3797
f 3795
t 3784
p 3765
j 3730
i 3704

Better, although still not perfect.

Regards,
mk



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:19:23 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:19:23 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 13:09 PM, mk wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
>> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
>> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.
>
> Oh I hear you -- for production use I would (will) certainly consider
> this. However, now I'm interested in the problem itself: why is the damn
> distribution not uniform?

You want "< 234", not "< 235". (234 % 26 == 0), so you get some extra 'a's.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 14:26:36 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 11:26:36 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>
>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>
>Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>
>The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>stop the message being spam when posted here.

That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
spinach lasagne here, is that spam?  I don't think many people would call
it spam, just an off-topic post.  From my POV, spam is defined a bit more
narrowly.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 14:27:36 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 11:27:36 -0800
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm3uj8$alt$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hm3qhi$2cd$1 at reader2.panix.com>, kj  <no.email at please.post> wrote:
>
>I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across the
>commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT LINES OF
>CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find it!
>
>Is my memory playing me a trick?

Possibly.  I certainly do that.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 14:30:40 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:30:40 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.180.1267036529.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.180.1267036529.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm3up1$1fc$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 24.02.2010 19:35, schrieb mk:
> On 2010-02-24 18:56, Michael Rudolf wrote:
>
>> The reason is 256 % 26 != 0
>> 256 mod 26 equals 22, thus your code is hitting a-v about 10% (256/26 is
>> approx. 10) more often than w-z.
>
> <Barbie voice>writing secure code is hard...

So true. That's why one should stick to standard libs when it comes to 
crypto or security in general. It's just to easy to mess it up. Just ask 
Debian about whether touching OpenSSL was a good idea ;)


>> You might want to skip the values 0-22
>> to achieve a truly uniform distribution.
> Hmm perhaps you meant to skip values over 256 - 22 ?

That's the same thing as x mod y equals x+N*y mod y for every natural N.

> def gen_rand_word(n):
> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) if ord(x)
>  > 22])

Off-by-one-error: you're skipping len(range(22))==23 hits.
OK, I just see that I wrote misleading 0-22 while I meant range(22).


> While with this:
> def gen_rand_word(n):
> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) if ord(x)
> < 235])

Same off-by-one.

>> FYI: Electronic Cash PINs in europe (dont know about the rest of the
>> world) were computed the same way (random hexdigit and just mod it when
>> it's too large) leading to a high probability that your first digit was
>> a 1 :)
> Schadenfreude is deriving joy from others' misfortunes; what is the
> German word, if any, for deriving solace from others' misfortunes? ;-)

Well - "Schadenfreude" *is* in fact a german word :)
"Schaden" is the event or result of misfortune, "Freude" is joy.


Well, I really think that you should use repeated Random.choice on an 
alphabet.
Or Random.Systemrandom.choice if you don't trust the PRNG.

Regards,
Michael


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 14:31:51 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:31:51 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xeikatopk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
> So I have little in the way of limitations of password length ...>
> The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so
> the main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords
> using brute force.

If it's HTTP instead of HTTPS and you're sending the password in the
clear, then a serious attacker can simply eavesdrop the connection and
pick up the password.  Again, if the application is a web forum or
something like that, the security requirements probably aren't terribly
high.  If it's (say) a financial application with potentially motivated
attackers, you've got to be a lot more careful than I think you're being
right now, and you should really get security specialists involved.

> Using A-z with 10-char password seems to provide 3 orders of magnitude
> more combinations than a-z:

Yes, 2**10 = 1024 so (57/25)**10 is a little more than that. 

> Even then I'm not getting completely uniform distribution for some reason:

Exact equality of the counts would be surprising and a sign that
something was wrong with the generation process.  It would be like
flipping a coin 10000 times and getting exactly 5000 heads.  The
binomial distribution tells you that the number should be close to 5000,
but that it's unlikely to be -exactly- 5000.

Also, as Michael Rudolf mentioned, getting a letter by taking n%26 where
n is drawn uniformly from [0..255] doesn't give a uniform distribution
because 256 is not a multiple of 26.  I had thought about making an
adjustment for that when I posted, but it didn't seem worth cluttering
up the code.  Uniformity for its own sake doesn't gain you anything;
what matters is entropy.  If you compute the entropy difference between
the slightly nonuniform distribution and a uniform one, it's very small.

To get a more uniform distribution I usually just take a larger n,
rather than conditionalizing the draws.  For example, in the
diceware-like code I posted, I read 10 random bytes (giving a uniform
random number on [0..2**80]) from urandom for each word.  That is still
not perfectly uniform, but it's closer to the point where the difference
would be very hard to detect.

> Aw shucks when will I learn to do the stuff in 3 lines well instead of
> 20, poorly. :-/

Well, that's partly a matter of practice, but I'll mention one way I
simplified the code, which was by reading more bytes from /dev/urandom
than was really necessary.  I read one byte for each random letter
(i.e. throwing away about 3 random bits for each letter) while you tried
to encode the urandom data cleverly and map 4 random bytes to 5
alphabetic letters.  /dev/urandom uses a cryptographic PRNG and it's
pretty fast, so reading a few extra bytes from it to simplify your code
doesn't really cost you anything.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:36:29 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:36:29 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3tu6$ue5$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3tu6$ue5$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3v3u$36c$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 13:16 PM, mk wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
>> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
>> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.
>
> Out of curiosity:
>
> def gen_rand_string(length):
> prng = random.SystemRandom()
> chars = []
> for i in range(length):
> chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
> return ''.join(chars)
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
> chardict = {}
> for i in range(10000):
> ## w = gen_rand_word(10)
> w = gen_rand_string(10)
> count_chars(chardict, w)
> counts = list(chardict.items())
> counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
> for char, count in counts:
> print char, count
>
>
> s 3966
> d 3912
> g 3909
> h 3905
> a 3901
> u 3900
> q 3891
> m 3888
> k 3884
> b 3878
> x 3875
> v 3867
> w 3864
> y 3851
> l 3825
> z 3821
> c 3819
> e 3819
> r 3816
> n 3808
> o 3797
> f 3795
> t 3784
> p 3765
> j 3730
> i 3704
>
> Better, although still not perfect.

This distribution is well within expectations.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:02:07 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:02:07 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm40ju$96u$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 20:19, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 13:09 PM, mk wrote:
>> On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
>>> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
>>> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.
>>
>> Oh I hear you -- for production use I would (will) certainly consider
>> this. However, now I'm interested in the problem itself: why is the damn
>> distribution not uniform?
>
> You want "< 234", not "< 235". (234 % 26 == 0), so you get some extra 'a's.

Right, this explains the 'a' outlier. Fixed. But still:

import operator
import os
import random
import math

def rand_str_custom(n):
     s = os.urandom(n)
     return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in s if ord(x) < 
234])

def count_chars(chardict, word):
     for c in word:
         try:
             chardict[c] += 1
         except KeyError:
             chardict[c] = 0

def rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding(length):
     seed = os.urandom(32)
     random.seed(seed)
     prng = random.SystemRandom()
     chars = []
     for i in range(length):
         chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
     return ''.join(chars)

def rand_str_SystemRandom_noseeding(length):
     prng = random.SystemRandom()
     chars = []
     for i in range(length):
         chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
     return ''.join(chars)

def sd(x):
     sd.sum  += x
     sd.sum2 += x*x
     sd.n    += 1.0
     sum, sum2, n = sd.sum, sd.sum2, sd.n
     return math.sqrt(sum2/n - sum*sum/n/n)

def gen_rand_with_fun(fun):
     print fun.__name__
     chardict = {}
     for i in range(10000):
         w = fun(10)
         count_chars(chardict, w)
     counts = list(chardict.items())
     counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
     nums = [c[1] for c in counts]
     sd.sum = sd.sum2 = sd.n = 0
     mean = (1.0*sum(nums))/len(nums)
     stddev = map(sd, nums)[-1]
     print 'mean', mean, 'std dev', stddev
     for char, count in counts:
         print char, count, '%.2f' % ((count - mean)/stddev), 'std devs 
away from mean'

if __name__ == "__main__":
     gen_rand_with_fun(rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding)
     print
     gen_rand_with_fun(rand_str_SystemRandom_noseeding)
     print
     gen_rand_with_fun(rand_str_custom)




rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding
mean 3845.15384615 std dev 46.2016419186
l 3926 1.75 std devs away from mean
y 3916 1.53 std devs away from mean
d 3909 1.38 std devs away from mean
a 3898 1.14 std devs away from mean
p 3898 1.14 std devs away from mean
c 3889 0.95 std devs away from mean
u 3884 0.84 std devs away from mean
j 3873 0.60 std devs away from mean
n 3873 0.60 std devs away from mean
w 3866 0.45 std devs away from mean
x 3863 0.39 std devs away from mean
r 3855 0.21 std devs away from mean
m 3852 0.15 std devs away from mean
b 3841 -0.09 std devs away from mean
t 3835 -0.22 std devs away from mean
o 3829 -0.35 std devs away from mean
k 3827 -0.39 std devs away from mean
i 3821 -0.52 std devs away from mean
s 3812 -0.72 std devs away from mean
q 3806 -0.85 std devs away from mean
v 3803 -0.91 std devs away from mean
g 3799 -1.00 std devs away from mean
h 3793 -1.13 std devs away from mean
e 3782 -1.37 std devs away from mean
f 3766 -1.71 std devs away from mean
z 3758 -1.89 std devs away from mean

rand_str_SystemRandom_noseeding
mean 3845.15384615 std dev 55.670522726
i 3961 2.08 std devs away from mean
r 3911 1.18 std devs away from mean
e 3910 1.16 std devs away from mean
m 3905 1.08 std devs away from mean
a 3901 1.00 std devs away from mean
u 3893 0.86 std devs away from mean
t 3882 0.66 std devs away from mean
w 3872 0.48 std devs away from mean
s 3870 0.45 std devs away from mean
c 3868 0.41 std devs away from mean
n 3866 0.37 std devs away from mean
q 3865 0.36 std devs away from mean
k 3863 0.32 std devs away from mean
y 3848 0.05 std devs away from mean
j 3836 -0.16 std devs away from mean
v 3830 -0.27 std devs away from mean
f 3829 -0.29 std devs away from mean
z 3829 -0.29 std devs away from mean
g 3827 -0.33 std devs away from mean
l 3818 -0.49 std devs away from mean
b 3803 -0.76 std devs away from mean
d 3803 -0.76 std devs away from mean
p 3756 -1.60 std devs away from mean
x 3755 -1.62 std devs away from mean
h 3744 -1.82 std devs away from mean
o 3729 -2.09 std devs away from mean

rand_str_custom
mean 3517.15384615 std dev 40.7541336343
i 3586 1.69 std devs away from mean
a 3578 1.49 std devs away from mean
e 3575 1.42 std devs away from mean
m 3570 1.30 std devs away from mean
q 3562 1.10 std devs away from mean
c 3555 0.93 std devs away from mean
g 3552 0.86 std devs away from mean
w 3542 0.61 std devs away from mean
p 3536 0.46 std devs away from mean
x 3533 0.39 std devs away from mean
s 3528 0.27 std devs away from mean
o 3524 0.17 std devs away from mean
d 3516 -0.03 std devs away from mean
t 3515 -0.05 std devs away from mean
h 3511 -0.15 std devs away from mean
v 3502 -0.37 std devs away from mean
z 3502 -0.37 std devs away from mean
b 3500 -0.42 std devs away from mean
f 3496 -0.52 std devs away from mean
u 3492 -0.62 std devs away from mean
l 3486 -0.76 std devs away from mean
r 3478 -0.96 std devs away from mean
n 3476 -1.01 std devs away from mean
j 3451 -1.62 std devs away from mean
k 3450 -1.65 std devs away from mean
y 3430 -2.14 std devs away from mean


It would appear that SystemRandom().choice is indeed best (in terms of 
how much the counts stray from mean in std devs), but only after seeding 
it with os.urandom.


Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:06:00 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:06:00 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3up1$1fc$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.180.1267036529.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3up1$1fc$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm40r6$a0k$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 20:30, Michael Rudolf wrote:
>>> The reason is 256 % 26 != 0
>>> 256 mod 26 equals 22, thus your code is hitting a-v about 10% (256/26 is
>>> approx. 10) more often than w-z.
>>
>> <Barbie voice>writing secure code is hard...
>
> So true. That's why one should stick to standard libs when it comes to
> crypto or security in general. It's just to easy to mess it up. Just ask
> Debian about whether touching OpenSSL was a good idea ;)

That was brain-dead hiccup, for crying out loud how could they do smth 
so stupid.

>> def gen_rand_word(n):
>> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
>> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) if ord(x)
>> > 22])
>
> Off-by-one-error: you're skipping len(range(22))==23 hits.

Argh, it's late here.

> Well, I really think that you should use repeated Random.choice on an
> alphabet.
> Or Random.Systemrandom.choice if you don't trust the PRNG.

I just posted a comparison with calculating std deviations for various 
methods - using os.urandom, SystemRandom.choice with seeding and without 
seeding.

They all seem to have slightly different distributions.

Regards,
mk




From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 15:09:54 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:09:54 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.190.1267041740.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x3a0qpf8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
> def rand_str_custom(n):
>     s = os.urandom(n)
>     return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in s if ord(x) < 234])

Note that simply throws away some of the chars.  You have to replace
them, not throw them away.

> rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding
> mean 3845.15384615 std dev 46.2016419186
> l 3926 1.75 std devs away from mean
> y 3916 1.53 std devs away from mean
... 

What do you think you're measuring here?  Yes, if you're doing 1000's of
draws from a distribution, you'd expect a few of them to be 1.75 sigma
from the mean.  Since there are 26 letters, you'd expect a multinomial
distribution which you can test for with the multinomial test or some
approximation from the article:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinomial_test

I wish I knew more statistics than I do, since there is probably some
more familiar statistical test (e.g. the T-test) that you can use as the
number of trials gets large, since each bin of the multinomial
distribution should eventually start to look like a normal distribution
due to the central limit theorem.  Others here know a lot more about
this stuff than I do, and can probably give better advice.

Anyway though, the output of os.urandom should be extremely hard to
distinguish from real randomness (that's the whole point of a
cryptographic PRNG).


From skylarking11 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:15:30 2010
From: skylarking11 at gmail.com (Sky Larking)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:15:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with ftplib uploading to an FTP server
Message-ID: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

This bit of code is designed to get the external IP address and
hostname of a client , write it locally to a file, then upload to an
FTP server. It works locally( one can see the IP number and hostname
with a time stamp in /Users/admin/Documents) , but when the file is
opened on the server after it's FTP'ed , it's blank....I think my
issue is something with the way I am utilizing the ftplib commands...
I am pretty sure instead of FTPing the file, it's just creating a new
one with the same name and uploading that?

This script is running on some OS X 10.5 clients and reporting back to
an Ubuntu 8.04 server...I am using the version of python bundled with
10.5.x ( 2.5.1 )

****************************************************************
import os
import datetime
import ftplib
import urllib2


currdate = datetime.datetime.now()
formatdate = currdate.strftime("%m-%d-%Y %H%M")

def log():

    fqn = os.uname()[1]
    ext_ip = urllib2.urlopen('http://whatismyip.org').read()
    log = open ('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','w')
    log.write(str("Asset: %s " % fqn))
    log.write(str("Checking in from IP#: %s" % ext_ip))
    smush = str(fqn +' @ ' + formatdate)
    os.rename('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','/Users/admin/
Documents/%s.txt' %  smush )
    s = ftplib.FTP('10.7.1.71','username','password')
    fd = open('/Users/admin/Documents/%s.txt' % smush,'rb')
    s.storbinary("STOR %s.txt" % smush , fd)

*****************************************************************************



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:20:37 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:20:37 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm40ju$96u$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm40ju$96u$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm41ml$cpk$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 14:02 PM, mk wrote:

> It would appear that SystemRandom().choice is indeed best (in terms of
> how much the counts stray from mean in std devs), but only after seeding
> it with os.urandom.

Calling random.seed() does not affect SystemRandom() whatsoever. You are getting 
perfectly acceptable distributions for all three variants.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From andrewpdavison at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:21:21 2010
From: andrewpdavison at gmail.com (Andrew Davison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:21:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Artificial Neural Networks recommendation
References: <mailman.157.1267015802.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cde40d7f-30c8-4d8f-bcaa-904838dd50e0@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 1:49?pm, Gereon Kaiping <gereon.kaip... at yahoo.de> wrote:
> - - PyNN (just a builder, requires external simulator) ?http://neuralensemble.org/trac/PyNN/
> - - Con-x (part of pyro) ?http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=Conx
> - - PyNeurGen (includes genetic algorithms) ?http://pyneurgen.sourceforge.net/
> - - ffnet (only fast forward) ?http://ffnet.sourceforge.net/
> - - brian (spiking networks) ?http://www.briansimulator.org/
> - - PyBrain (machine learning) ?http://pybrain.org/
>
> Can you give me a recommendation or a review on some of these?

PyNN and Brian are intended more for biologically-realistic neural
networks (for some value of realistic), aka neuronal networks, so I
guess you can rule them out (similar tools that you might come across
are NEST, NEURON, PCSIM).

Cheers,

Andrew


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Wed Feb 24 15:23:03 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:23:03 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
Message-ID: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>

Hi all,

a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
this:

"""Function that does stuff"""
def doStuff():
    while not wise(up):
        yield scorn

Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From brixomatic at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 24 15:40:10 2010
From: brixomatic at yahoo.com (Wanja Gayk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:40:10 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>

Am 24.02.2010, 00:22 Uhr, schrieb Lawrence D'Oliveiro  
<ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand>:

>> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
>> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
>> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM
>
> Python is still faster, though.

In synthetic microbenchmarks without any practical importance - possibly.

> I think a key reason is that its VM supports
> reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.

Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
Modern Java VM won't count references. They will just trace the active  
references from the rootand mark all objects it finds as active and save  
these. The remaining ones are garbage. The reason why this is faster is  
that there are usually less live objects than dead ones and there are less  
refereces to look at.

kind regards

W

-- 
Erstellt mit Operas revolution?rem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news at netfront.net ---


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 24 15:56:06 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:56:06 +0000
Subject: Trouble with ftplib uploading to an FTP server
In-Reply-To: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B859266.5090201@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Sky Larking wrote:
> This bit of code is designed to get the external IP address and
> hostname of a client , write it locally to a file, then upload to an
> FTP server. It works locally( one can see the IP number and hostname
> with a time stamp in /Users/admin/Documents) , but when the file is
> opened on the server after it's FTP'ed , it's blank....I think my
> issue is something with the way I am utilizing the ftplib commands...
> I am pretty sure instead of FTPing the file, it's just creating a new
> one with the same name and uploading that?
> 
> This script is running on some OS X 10.5 clients and reporting back to
> an Ubuntu 8.04 server...I am using the version of python bundled with
> 10.5.x ( 2.5.1 )
> 
> ****************************************************************
> import os
> import datetime
> import ftplib
> import urllib2
> 
> 
> currdate = datetime.datetime.now()
> formatdate = currdate.strftime("%m-%d-%Y %H%M")
> 
> def log():
> 
>     fqn = os.uname()[1]
>     ext_ip = urllib2.urlopen('http://whatismyip.org').read()
>     log = open ('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','w')
>     log.write(str("Asset: %s " % fqn))
>     log.write(str("Checking in from IP#: %s" % ext_ip))
>     smush = str(fqn +' @ ' + formatdate)
>     os.rename('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','/Users/admin/
> Documents/%s.txt' %  smush )

You're renaming the file while it's still open. What you've written is
still in the buffer, not on disk.

>     s = ftplib.FTP('10.7.1.71','username','password')
>     fd = open('/Users/admin/Documents/%s.txt' % smush,'rb')
>     s.storbinary("STOR %s.txt" % smush , fd)
> 
> *****************************************************************************
> 



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 16:00:19 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:00:19 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.191.1267042207.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.180.1267036529.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3up1$1fc$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.191.1267042207.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4414$2ag$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 24.02.2010 21:06, schrieb mk:
>
> I just posted a comparison with calculating std deviations for various
> methods - using os.urandom, SystemRandom.choice with seeding and without
> seeding.

I saw them

> They all seem to have slightly different distributions.

No they don't. Just run those tests again and you will see that you 
cannot put them in any order or behaviour. They are all correct now, 
except that you cannot seed SystemRandom, as it is *not* a PRNG (at 
least here, it is a wrapper for /dev/random)

Regards,
Michael


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 16:06:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:06:22 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm44d2$nsi$1@dough.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>> Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>> distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>> content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>>
>> The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>> stop the message being spam when posted here.
> 
> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?  I don't think many people would call
> it spam, just an off-topic post.  From my POV, spam is defined a bit more
> narrowly.

Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to ten
of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well be).

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb 24 16:21:59 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:21:59 +0100
Subject: Help with lambda
In-Reply-To: <39ded391-c814-4c17-936f-3a4f55c3d9ec@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<39ded391-c814-4c17-936f-3a4f55c3d9ec@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b859877$0$23912$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 18, 4:28 am, lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> 
> This is (pretty much) what the above code does.
> 
>>>> f = []
>>>> n = 2
>>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>>> n = 3
>>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>>> n = 4
>>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>>> n = 5
>>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
> 
> Now, when you call f[0], you are calling "lambda x: x**n". What is
> "n"?
> 


If you use a newer version of python (>= 2.5), then you might want to
look at functools.partial.


> def pow(a,n):
>     return a ** n
> 
> f = [functools.partial(pow,n=n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> 


Not sure, whether there's any (dis)advantage over
> f = [lambda x,n=n: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
or
> f = [lambda x,n=n: pow(x,n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]




bye

N





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 24 16:29:18 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:29:18 -0500
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
Message-ID: <hm45ne$rnr$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/24/2010 5:14 AM, Lars Gust?bel wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
>> I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
>> TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
>> search while they have a doc string:
>>
>> http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=gzopen
>> http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html?highlight=tarfile#tarfile.TarFile
>>
>> See script at the end for list of class methods.
>>
>> Is this "by design" or is there some an odd bug in doc generation lurking
>> around? This somehow seem to be specific to module tarfile. Fraction
>> classmethod from_float() is available in the documentation and found by a
>> search for example...
>
> First of all, Python's module documentation is not generated from module
> docstrings, each module has its own rst text file in the documentation tree
> instead.
>
> But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class has
> three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
> compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
> classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
> method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
> decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
> does many more other high-level things as well.

By current standards, the three private methods should be prefixed with 
'_' to indicate their private status. Could they be changed to head off 
such questions?

Terry Jan Reedy




From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 16:39:44 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:39:44 +0100
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <7ulkl0F6acU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 24.02.10 00:08, schrieb monkeys paw:
> On 2/23/2010 3:17 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> monkeys paw wrote:
>>> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
>>> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
>>> with the write operation?
>>>
>>> import urllib2
>>> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
>>> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
>>
>> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?
>
> 'wb' does the trick. Thanks all!
>
> Here is the final working code, i used an index(i)
> to see how many reads took place, i have to assume there is
> a default buffer size:
>
> import urllib2
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
> i = 0
> for line in
> urllib2.urlopen('http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'):
>
> i = i + 1
> a.write(line)
>
> print "Number of reads: %d" % i
> a.close()
>
>
> NEW QUESTION if y'all are still reading:
>
> Is there an integer increment operation in Python? I tried
> using i++ but had to revert to 'i = i + 1'


Instead, use enumerate:

for i, line in enumerate(...):
     ...


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 16:50:04 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:50:04 +0100
Subject: compiling python question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.149.1266976820.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.149.1266976820.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B859F0C.1060308@nospam.web.de>

Am 24.02.10 03:00, schrieb Mag Gam:
> I am trying to compile python with Tk bindings. Do I need to do
> anything special for python to detect and enable Tk?

What OS? What does the configure/build process say?

Diez


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 16:52:26 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:52:26 +0000
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <m24ol6gv39.fsf@googlemail.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>>
>>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>>
>>Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>>distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>>content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>>
>>The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>>stop the message being spam when posted here.
>
> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?

Are they really good?  Sounds good, spinach lasagne, I don't know a
recipe for them.  Maybe you could post it as Python code, with a lot of
nested if-then-else clauses, of course :)

-- 
Arnaud


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 16:54:25 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:54:25 +1300
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
	<hlvlom$vfk$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hm1kps$lm8$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
Message-ID: <hm476g$gom$1@speranza.aioe.org>

David Boddie wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 February 2010 05:32, Gib Bogle wrote:
> 
>> David Boddie wrote:
>>
>>> I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
>>> the PyQt Wiki:
>>>
>>>   http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt
>>>
>>> If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
>>> presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
>>> this problem.
>>>
>>> David
>> Thanks David, that worked a treat.  :-)
> 
> If you could update the Wiki (or maybe the py2exe Wiki, if they have one)
> to say what you did, that would be useful for others in the future. Then
> they'll only be one search away from the answer. :-)
> 
> David

OK, I'll put it on the to-do list.

Gib


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 24 16:54:52 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:54:52 -0800
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger
<usenot at geekmail.invalid> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
>
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
> ? ?while not wise(up):
> ? ? ? ?yield scorn
>
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>

kill -9 seems to work for me.

You may want to explain, one day, why what they are doing is wrong.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 16:59:18 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:59:18 +1300
Subject: Files required for porting python
References: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm47fl$gom$2@speranza.aioe.org>

KIRAN wrote:

"I see lot of code with several files."

I had to laugh at this.


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 24 17:35:31 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:35:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to monitor memory usage within Python? (Linux)
Message-ID: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>





Is there some standard module for getting info about the process's
memory usage, in a Linux/Unix system?

(I want to avoid hacks that involve, e.g., scraping ps's output.)

Thanks!

~K


From dontsendleospam at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 17:37:42 2010
From: dontsendleospam at gmail.com (dontspamleo)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:37:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Hi Folks,

Thanks everyone for the great contributions! I understand this better
now. The distinction between a shorthand for a function definition and
a shorthand for a loop iteration is crucial.

Also: thanks for pointing out the even the list comprehension doesn't
work in py3. That was incredibly useful! I was about to build a
package using Python and now (unfortunately) I will have to find
another language. Saved me a big headache!

More details...

>
> I can't reproduce the error message that you cite.
>

Sorry, I made a cut and paste error in my first post. The error was
exactly the one in your post.

> Reason for the NameError:
>
> The above is a /generator expression/, evaluated in a class definition.
>
> The docs have a similar example but I'm sorry, I'm unable to find it! Anyway the
> generator expression is evaluated as if its code was put in function. And from
> within the scope of that function you can't access the class scope implicitly,
> hence, no access to 'B'.
>
<snip/>
>
> This is a /list comprehension/, not a generator expression (although
> syntactically it's almost the same).
>
> It obeys different rules.
>
> Essentially the generator expression produces a generator object that you may
> name or pass around as you wish, while the comprehension is just a syntactical
> device for writing more concisely some equivalent code that's generated inline.
>
> However, apparently the rules changed between Python 2.x and Python 3.x.
>
> In Python 3.x also the list comprehension fails in a class definition:
>
</snip>
> C:\test> py3
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in <listcomp>
> NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
> ?>>> exit()

Yuck! Why should the list comprehension fail in Py3? The scope rules
that explain why the generator expression would fail don't apply in
that case. Plus Guido's comment on generators being consumed quickly
also doesn't apply.

>
> ?From one point of view it's good that Py3 provides about the same behavior for
> generator expressions and list comprehensions.
>
> But I'd really like the above examples to Just Work. :-)
>

Absolutely agreed. Especially with the list comprehension.

I read PEP 289 and the 2004 exchanges in the mailing list regarding
scoping and binding issues in generator expressions, when this feature
was added to the language. Forgive my blasphemy, but Guido got it
wrong on this one, by suggesting that an obscure use case should drive
design considerations when a far more common use case exists. The
obscure use case involves confusing sequences of exceptions, while the
common use case is consistent scope rules at different levels. For
details search the mailing list for Guido's quote in PEP 289.

Here is another example that fails...
In [7]: class T:
   ...:     A = range(2)
   ...:     B = range(2,4)
   ...:     g = (i*j for i in A for j in B)
   ...:     s = sum(g)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
NameError                                 Traceback (most recent call
last)
C:\Python26\<ipython console> in <module>()
C:\Python26\<ipython console> in T()
C:\Python26\<ipython console> in <genexpr>((i,))
NameError: global name 'B' is not defined

... at sum(g)!

These two examples work (doing the same thing at a global scope and a
local scope):

In [1]: class T:
   ...:     def local(self):
   ...:         A = range(2)
   ...:         B = range(2,4)
   ...:         g = (i*j for i in A for j in B)
   ...:         s = sum(g)
   ...:
In [2]: t = T()
In [3]: t.local()
In [4]: A = range(2)
In [5]: B = range(2,4)
In [6]: g = (i*j for i in A for j in B)
In [7]: s = sum(g)

Thanks to everyone who suggested workarounds. They are very helpful.
At the same time, they are -- forgive my language -- so perlish (as in
clever, and requiring deep understanding of the language). In Python,
simple elegant constructs should work consistently across all scopes.
The very fact that people chose to use the word 'workaround' indicates
how quirky this aspect of the language is.

It really doesn't need to be so quirky. Defining the semantics of
generator expressions to mimic Arnaud's lambda workaround below would
be just as justified as the current definition, and more pythonic (in
the consistent, elegant sense). @Arnaud: I tried to find your earlier
post -- googled "Arnaud lambda" -- but couldn't.

Does anyone know of a more recent PEP that addresses these issues?

Thanks,
Leo.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 17:41:03 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:41:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4ed45391-dc4f-43ef-ab56-6743e71a31a0@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

> After all, from what I've seen since then, the practice of
> triple-quote-commenting (or TQC, pardon the TCA) is in fact quite
> common.
>
> Is TQC OK after all?
>
> If not, what's the case against it?

I have no sense of how approved it is, and don't have a strong opinion
on it, but I would think that some cases against it could be:

- It's used for docstrings, so when you scan code it is harder to
instantly find comment blocks or docstrings if IDE parsers color code
comments differently than docstrings.  An IDE I use (Boa Constructor)
uses "# XXX [comment]" as a comment that means "add to the to-do list"
as well.

- If you want to search for comments easily, you can search for #,
which will probably only bring you to comments, whereas if you search
for quote marks, they could be used in a number of different ways in
the code.

- Adhering to coding conventions is a good thing in open source
applications.




From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 17:48:54 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:48:54 +0100
Subject: How to monitor memory usage within Python? (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7ulomnFtk5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 24.02.10 23:35, schrieb kj:
> Is there some standard module for getting info about the process's
> memory usage, in a Linux/Unix system?
>
> (I want to avoid hacks that involve, e.g., scraping ps's output.)

http://code.google.com/p/pympler/

Diez


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 17:58:17 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 14:58:17 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4au9$skh$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Terry Reedy  <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>Confusing generators and generator functions is, well, confusing.
>For future reference, and clarity of communication in Pythonland,
>
>generator function: function that produces a generator when called; if 
>python coded, its body contains 'yield'.
>
>generator: iterator produced by a generator function; has .__next__ and 
>self-returning .__init__, like all other iterators.
>
>generator expression: an expression that evaluates to a generator; the 
>expression is used to create a temporary anonymous generator function 
>that is called to produce the generator and is then discarded.

My preference is to use the terms "generator" and "generator iterator"
(abbreviated "gen iter" or "geniter").
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 18:01:02 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 15:01:02 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4b3e$18a$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
>> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>>>
>>>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>>>
>>> Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>>> distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>>> content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>>>
>>> The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>>> stop the message being spam when posted here.
>> 
>> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
>> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?  I don't think many people would call
>> it spam, just an off-topic post.  From my POV, spam is defined a bit more
>> narrowly.
>
>Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
>e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to ten
>of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well be).

That's roughly correct, but I also think that if someone posts the same
message to five mailing lists, it's not unreasonable to call that
spamming.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 18:01:52 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 15:01:52 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hm4b50$jmj$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>
>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>
>Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>
>The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>stop the message being spam when posted here.

Moreover, by your definition, your post above counts as spam.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 18:05:09 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 15:05:09 -0800
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4bb5$gn4$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Ryan Kelly  <ryan at rfk.id.au> wrote:
>
>Yes.  The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
>application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
>executable file.  As long as you don't change python versions, this
>allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
>without atomic file replacement.
>
>So the frozen app does this in a background thread:
>
>   Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()
>
>And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
>unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory.  Et
>viola, your app is at the latest version.

How does this work with a running app?  What if the app is a service?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 18:05:35 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:05:35 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <7ulpm0F3kiU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 24.02.10 12:42, schrieb Michael Rudolf:
> First: Thanks for all the replies so far, they really helped me.
>
> Am 24.02.2010 11:28, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>>> >>> def a(x=None):
>>> if x is None:
>>> pass
>>> else:
>>> pass
>>>
>> This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 docstring,
>> 1 way do do it, 1 interface.
>
> Yes, I see. Actually I do now realize that even in Java I use method
> overloading mostly to implement optional arguments anyway, like:
>
> void constructor(){this.foo='foo'; this.initotherstuff();}
> void constructor(int x) {this.x=x; this.constructor();}
>
> and so on.
>
> So most of the time the idiom above is exactly what I need, as the
> versions of the function share code anyway.
>
> But there are also cases where they do something completely different -
> in these cases I might use one of the other solutions provided here or
> simply make two or three functions and name them appropiately.
>
> I do now see that the pythonic approach is the "best" for most cases,
> but I really loved to see that you *can* do overloading in a convenient
> way if you really want to :D Those decorators just rock :D

You can do, see packages such as PEAK rules. They offer not only 
type-based overloading, but also value-based.

Diez


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 18:08:18 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:08:18 +0100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hm4au9$skh$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4au9$skh$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm4bh2$3k4$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 24.02.2010 23:58, schrieb Aahz:
> (abbreviated "gen iter" or "geniter").

lol I don't know why, but this sounds like a sex toy to me ;)

Regards,
Michael


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 18:22:47 2010
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:22:47 GMT
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bxihn.9635$pv.828@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Steve Holden:

> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
> e-mail.

   Spam is more commonly defined as UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email) of
which UCE is a large subset. Its just as much spam if its pushing a
political party or charity even though there may be no commercial
advantage to the poster.

   Neil


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Wed Feb 24 18:30:07 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:30:07 +1100
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
In-Reply-To: <hm4bb5$gn4$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4bb5$gn4$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1267054207.2598.3.camel@rambutan>

On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 15:05 -0800, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Ryan Kelly  <ryan at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> >
> >Yes.  The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
> >application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
> >executable file.  As long as you don't change python versions, this
> >allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
> >without atomic file replacement.
> >
> >So the frozen app does this in a background thread:
> >
> >   Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()
> >
> >And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
> >unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory.  Et
> >viola, your app is at the latest version.
> 
> How does this work with a running app?  What if the app is a service?

The changes will only take effect the next time the app is started -
currently there's no support for "hot upgrading" a running app.

Would definitely be an interesting feature though...


   Ryan

-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 18:36:54 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 15:36:54 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4au9$skh$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hm4bh2$3k4$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm4d6m$fv5$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hm4bh2$3k4$1 at news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>,
Michael Rudolf  <spamfresser at ch3ka.de> wrote:
>Am 24.02.2010 23:58, schrieb Aahz:
>>
>> (abbreviated "gen iter" or "geniter").
>
>lol I don't know why, but this sounds like a sex toy to me ;)

<smirk>  And I thought only smutty Americans would have that twitch.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From soniyaa1111 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 18:39:57 2010
From: soniyaa1111 at gmail.com (soniyaa 1111)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:39:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: first website developed on new innovative shopping model
Message-ID: <6772fae0-6392-413a-b5fa-2b37637a2d7a@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

http://www.shoppingreps.com?SourceId=1259 is the first website
developed on new innovative shopping model. Group bargaining through
social networking targeted towards volume discounts. It has presented
a suitable platform to reflect this novel shopping idea. This concept
and methodology is new to the internet world. The website offers free
membership to the shoppers and vendors. It encourages shoppers to
acquire quotes for themselves when a group is formed. The shoppers
will know the size of the group and the complete product details for
which they will be requested to fetch quotes from their own
localities. Shoppers get their chance of testing their bargain
capabilities and enjoy the benefits and fun of bargaining for a bulk
order and a group.


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 24 18:42:47 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:42:47 -0000
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8nn5ldha8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:41:08 -0000, Luis M. Gonz?lez <luismgz at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> This is the only way I know to define variables programatically in the
> top-level namespace, without having to do it manually one by one.

We see requests for this a lot, and the response that's frequently missed  
amongst all the technical trickery is "What on earth makes you think that  
defining variables programatically will help?"  Usually the sensible thing  
is to collect such "variables" into a list or dictionary, since that's the  
only way you're going to access them safely without a whole heap more  
technical trickery.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 19:01:05 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:01:05 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <bxihn.9635$pv.828@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<bxihn.9635$pv.828@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <hm4ekp$s4h$1@dough.gmane.org>

Neil Hodgson wrote:
> Steve Holden:
> 
>> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
>> e-mail.
> 
>    Spam is more commonly defined as UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email) of
> which UCE is a large subset. Its just as much spam if its pushing a
> political party or charity even though there may be no commercial
> advantage to the poster.

>From my point of view that's a far better definition. Thanks.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 19:08:38 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:08:38 -0600
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <hm4b3e$18a$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4b3e$18a$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm4f28$tid$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 17:01 PM, Aahz wrote:
> In article<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list at python.org>,
> Steve Holden<steve at holdenweb.com>  wrote:

>> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
>> e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to ten
>> of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well be).
>
> That's roughly correct, but I also think that if someone posts the same
> message to five mailing lists, it's not unreasonable to call that
> spamming.

This accords with my understanding of the term and, it appears, that of Wikipedia:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroup_spam

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 19:15:24 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 16:15:24 -0800
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm4fes$psb$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03 at g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
SiWi  <wimmersimon at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm developing
>on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the script execute
>on the workstation pc and write the output back on the netbook.
>
>Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?

Fabric might help, but I think it relies on ssh.  py.test also has remote
capabilities.

http://fabfile.org/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 24 19:17:58 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:17:58 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm4fit$v08$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/24/2010 4:54 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger
> <usenot at geekmail.invalid>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
>> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
>> this:
>>
>> """Function that does stuff"""
>> def doStuff():
>>     while not wise(up):
>>         yield scorn
>>
>> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
>> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>>
>
> kill -9 seems to work for me.
>
> You may want to explain, one day, why what they are doing is wrong.
>

They are thinking in JavaDoc, not Python.

#------------------------------
"""Function that does stuff"""
def doStuff():
     while not wise(up):
         yield scorn


def doOtherStuff():
     """Function that does stuff"""
     while wise(up):
         yield joy

print doStuff.__doc__
print doOtherStuff.__doc__
#------------------------------

program output:

None
Function that does stuff

-John



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 19:22:45 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 00:22:45 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.00.22.45@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:23:03 +0100, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
> 
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
>     while not wise(up):
>         yield scorn
> 
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?


Well, the above isn't *wrong* as such, it is equivalent to:


# Function that does stuff
def doStuff():
    while not wise(up):
        yield scorn


which means the biggest problem is that they had the perfect opportunity 
to create a useful docstring and instead f***ed it up by turning it into 
a useless comment.

The best way to teach them better is to introduce them to the joys of 
help(doStuff) and doctests.




-- 
Steven


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 24 19:39:08 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:39:08 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
> e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to
> ten of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well
> be).

That excludes things like the religious screeds, or any other one-way
"get this message in front of as many eyeballs as possible" message.

Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in that
it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.

-- 
 \        ?I went to court for a parking ticket; I pleaded insanity. I |
  `\   said ?Your Honour, who in their right mind parks in the passing |
_o__)                                           lane??? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 24 19:41:55 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:41:55 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm4b50$jmj$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <874ol65ep8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> >Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its distribution
> >(to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its content
> >(off-topic and unsolicited).
[?]

> Moreover, by your definition, your post above counts as spam.

No. Again, as several others have pointed out, discussions about how the
forum should operate (meta-discussions, if you like) are on-topic in the
forum.

That's not to say they should dominate the forum, of course.

-- 
 \     ?I must say that I find television very educational. The minute |
  `\       somebody turns it on, I go to the library and read a book.? |
_o__)                                                    ?Groucho Marx |
Ben Finney


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 19:51:20 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 00:51:20 GMT
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.00.51.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:18:27 +0000, kj wrote:

> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across the
> commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT LINES OF
> CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find it!
> 
> Is my memory playing me a trick?
> 
> After all, from what I've seen since then, the practice of
> triple-quote-commenting (or TQC, pardon the TCA) is in fact quite
> common.

Oooh, I hope not... for anything but Q&D scripting, folks should be using 
source control rather than filling their source code up with vast lumps 
of old dead code.


> Is TQC OK after all?

Only if you're lazy and slack, and being lazy and slack is itself only 
okay if you are only lazy and slack *a very little bit*. In a small 
script, using test-driven development, it is acceptable to comment out 
dead code for a single test run. At the end of the run, you either 
reverse the commenting out, or you delete the dead code.

 
> If not, what's the case against it?

Commenting out dead code is, itself, a BAD THING, regardless of whether 
you use comments or triple-quotes.

http://www.coderenaissance.com/2008/09/quit-commenting-out-dead-code.html


Triple-quoted comments are worrying, though, because the result of them 
is not specified by the language. (Other than docstrings, of course.) The 
CPython compiler optimizes them away at compile time, so they have no 
runtime influence at all, but other implementations may not include this 
optimization and so the string gets compiled into the byte-code, created 
at runtime, then immediately deleted. Ouch.



-- 
Steven


From magawake at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 19:55:25 2010
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:55:25 -0500
Subject: compiling python question
In-Reply-To: <4B859F0C.1060308@nospam.web.de>
References: <mailman.149.1266976820.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4B859F0C.1060308@nospam.web.de>
Message-ID: <1cbd6f831002241655p2642ac10pa6c43598dcf98896@mail.gmail.com>

sorry for the vague answer.

Its Linux.

The configure build does not say anything actually. This is for SAGE.
I managed to have it pick it up by compiling/installing tcl and tk and
then recompile python


On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Diez B. Roggisch <deets at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 24.02.10 03:00, schrieb Mag Gam:
>>
>> I am trying to compile python with Tk bindings. Do I need to do
>> anything special for python to detect and enable Tk?
>
> What OS? What does the configure/build process say?
>
> Diez
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 19:56:04 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 16:56:04 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hm4b50$jmj$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<874ol65ep8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hm4hr4$c9r$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <874ol65ep8.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
>> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its distribution
>>>(to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its content
>>>(off-topic and unsolicited).
>>
>> Moreover, by your definition, your post above counts as spam.
>
>No. Again, as several others have pointed out, discussions about how the
>forum should operate (meta-discussions, if you like) are on-topic in the
>forum.

We already agreed that the original post was not appropriate for c.l.py;
further discussion about the precise term for describing that post is
off-topic.  Therefore, by your definition, your post is spam.  My point
is that c.l.py is somewhat tolerant of off-topic posts, and generally
people who contribute to the newsgroup are more likely to get a pass on
off-topic posts.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 19:58:17 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:58:17 -0600
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hm4hvb$5eh$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 18:39 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Steve Holden<steve at holdenweb.com>  writes:
>
>> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
>> e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to
>> ten of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well
>> be).
>
> That excludes things like the religious screeds, or any other one-way
> "get this message in front of as many eyeballs as possible" message.
>
> Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
> commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in that
> it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.

That said, in the context of USENET or mailing lists, a single off-topic post to 
a single group/list from a regular contributor is not usually considered "bulk 
messaging" or "spam". There is already a perfectly fine word for that: 
"off-topic". Only when it gets cross-posted excessively or repeated verbatim 
indiscriminately does it usually get designated spam.

I think there is an important distinction to be made between isolated off-topic 
messages and spam. It's not just about finding commonly agreed meanings of terms 
in aid of clear communication. There is a substantive difference. The repetitive 
nature of spam dictates what you can do about it. With spam, you can killfile 
people, or filter out certain hosts, or use statistical filters, or require 
registration or first-post moderation, etc. With the occasional off-topic post 
from a regular, you ask them not to do it again and subject them to unending 
threads about what spam is or isn't.

But you only break out the comfy chair for the very worst of the offenders.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 20:04:54 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 01:04:54 GMT
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.01.04.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:58:38 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> I wonder why updating locals(), not from within a function, works (at
> least in my interactive session).

Because if you're in the global scope, locals() returns globals(), which 
is a real namespace and modifying it works.

Inside a function, locals() returns a dict which is a *copy* of the 
function namespace. The reason for this is that local namespaces are not 
actually dicts, and you can't modify them except by actually assigning 
and deleting names in code.


> And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal? If not, is
> there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?

Yes, it is legal to modify globals(). It's just a dict, you can even do 
this:

>>> globals()[2] = 4
>>> globals()[2]
4

although that's a pretty useless trick.

But whether you should is another story. I won't say you should NEVER do 
so, but it should be rare to use global variables, and even rarer to 
create them programmatically. The better solution is almost always to 
create your own namespace, namely a dict, and use that explicitly.


-- 
Steven


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 24 20:05:30 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:05:30 +1300
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
Message-ID: <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:

> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.

It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things like

    contents = open(filename, "r").read()

and know the file object will be immediately closed after its contents are 
returned.

It also means I don?t have to predefine how much memory my program will use. 
A garbage collector will only kick in when the app runs low on memory. On a 
system with dynamic memory allocation, that will not happen until the entire 
system runs low on memory, unless you limit the app to some fixed amount. 
Which is an antiquated way of doing things.

And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to assumptions 
that programs will obey locality of reference. Pointer-chasing is a cache-
hostile activity. Garbage collection involves a lot of pointer-chasing, 
particularly of dead objects that have long since been flushed from the 
cache, compared with reference counting of recently-accessed objects. 
Therefore garbage collection loses performance.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 20:06:16 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 01:06:16 GMT
Subject: Use eval() safely?
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>
	<pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.153.1267002759.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.01.06.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:11:25 +0100, Dieter Maurer wrote:

> Using functionality introduced with the class/type homogenization, it is
> quite easy to get access to the "file" type (even when "__builtins__" is
> disabled). Having "file", arbitrary files can be read, written,
> destroyed...

Not that I don't believe you (I do!) but could you demonstrate for the 
record?



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 20:07:31 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 01:07:31 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.01.07.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:23:17 +0100, mk wrote:

> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for them,
> so they will not have to remember and type them in.

So to break your application's security model, all somebody has to do is 
use their PC and they have full access to their account?

Or get hold of the copy and paste buffer?

Or the application's config files?



> So I have little in
> the way of limitations of password length - even though in *some* cases
> somebody might have to (or be ignorant enough) to retype the password
> instead of pasting it in.

Or your users might be sensible enough to not trust a role-your-own 
security model, and prefer to memorize the password than to trust that 
nobody will get access to their PC.



> The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so the
> main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords using
> brute force.

And why would they bother doing that when they can sniff the wire and get 
the passwords in plain text? You should assume your attackers are 
*smarter* than you, not trust them to be foolish.


-- 
Steven


From skylarking11 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 20:21:58 2010
From: skylarking11 at gmail.com (Sky Larking)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:21:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with ftplib uploading to an FTP server
References: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.193.1267044970.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79927f7d-d186-46f1-ab58-94a8d5f973fc@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 3:56?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Sky Larking wrote:
> > This bit of code is designed to get the external IP address and
> > hostname of a client , write it locally to a file, then upload to an
> > FTP server. It works locally( one can see the IP number and hostname
> > with a time stamp in /Users/admin/Documents) , but when the file is
> > opened on the server after it's FTP'ed , it's blank....I think my
> > issue is something with the way I am utilizing the ftplib commands...
> > I am pretty sure instead of FTPing the file, it's just creating a new
> > one with the same name and uploading that?
>
> > This script is running on some OS X 10.5 clients and reporting back to
> > an Ubuntu 8.04 server...I am using the version of python bundled with
> > 10.5.x ( 2.5.1 )
>
> > ****************************************************************
> > import os
> > import datetime
> > import ftplib
> > import urllib2
>
> > currdate = datetime.datetime.now()
> > formatdate = currdate.strftime("%m-%d-%Y %H%M")
>
> > def log():
>
> > ? ? fqn = os.uname()[1]
> > ? ? ext_ip = urllib2.urlopen('http://whatismyip.org').read()
> > ? ? log = open ('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','w')
> > ? ? log.write(str("Asset: %s " % fqn))
> > ? ? log.write(str("Checking in from IP#: %s" % ext_ip))
> > ? ? smush = str(fqn +' @ ' + formatdate)
> > ? ? os.rename('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','/Users/admin/
> > Documents/%s.txt' % ?smush )
>
> You're renaming the file while it's still open. What you've written is
> still in the buffer, not on disk.
>
> > ? ? s = ftplib.FTP('10.7.1.71','username','password')
> > ? ? fd = open('/Users/admin/Documents/%s.txt' % smush,'rb')
> > ? ? s.storbinary("STOR %s.txt" % smush , fd)
>
> > *****************************************************************************
>
>

@ MRAB Thanks ...

I can see the file in /Users/admin/Documents after the following line
runs though?

os.rename('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','/Users/admin/
Documents/%s.txt' %  smush )

For instance I just ran the script and os.rename() renamed it to:

TestMachine.local @ 02-24-2010 2020.txt

in that .txt file it reads:

Asset: TestMachine.local Checking in from IP#: xx.xxx.xx.xxx

This is what I want, but the FTP piece doesn't seem to work...



From mrjean1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 20:27:05 2010
From: mrjean1 at gmail.com (MrJean1)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:27:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to monitor memory usage within Python? (Linux)
References: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <6b5de37c-4a7b-4ee7-b5c8-6f412e3dbbab@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

For Linux only

<http://code.activestate.com/recipes/286222/>

/Jean

On Feb 24, 2:35?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> Is there some standard module for getting info about the process's
> memory usage, in a Linux/Unix system?
>
> (I want to avoid hacks that involve, e.g., scraping ps's output.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~K



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 20:30:00 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 01:30:00 GMT
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:39:08 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

> Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
> commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in that
> it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.

Not quite.

I've read tens of thousands of messages to comp.lang.python, and 
solicited perhaps some hundreds. Are all the rest spam? I should say not!
I haven't solicited them: at no point did I say, explicitly or 
implicitly, "Hey strangers all over the world, send me messages asking 
questions about Python" but I do welcome them.

(In fact, I'd be annoyed if everyone started sending the questions to me 
personally instead of to the list.)

I think it is foolish to try to create a water-tight definition of 
"spam". It is clearly a fuzzy concept, which means sometimes right-
thinking people can have legitimate disagreements as to whether or not 
something is "spam".

For example, I happen to think that the OP's message about Fascism is off-
topic but not spam. I think Joan is guilty of a breach of etiquette for 
failing to label it [OT] in the subject line, and she should have 
directed replies to a more appropriate forum (a mailing list, another 
newsgroup, a web forum, anywhere but here). But in my opinion, it didn't 
cross the line into spam. I wouldn't be the slightest bit tempted to 
killfile her, or flag the message as spam, in my mail/news client.

If other people feel differently, well, that's your personal choice. But 
please don't try to tell me that *my* line between spam and ham is wrong, 
and that *yours* is the only correct one. 

(That last response is aimed at a generic You, not Ben specifically. 
Stupid English language, why can't we have a word for generic you?)


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 20:31:31 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:31:31 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for
> them, so they will not have to remember and type them in. 

It occurs to me that you don't even need to mess with letters in that
case:

   password = os.urandom(5).encode('hex')

will generate a string of 10 hex digits that you can give to the user.
(That is for Python 2.x but I think it might be broken in Python 3).

It might be helpful if you could say what your application does, or
anyway give an idea of what its actual security requirements are.
Generating and emailing someone a random password is a fairly standard
method for (e.g.) web forums to verify that the person has supplied a
working email address, basically as a first level spam filter.  Your
scheme is probably ok for that.  If you're doing something with more
demanding security requirements, then as mentioned before, there is a
whole lot of stuff you have to pay attention to, and focusing narrowly
on password generation isn't that useful.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 24 20:31:46 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:31:46 +1100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87vddm3xtp.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> [Reference counting] avoids the need for garbage collection. It means
> I can write things like
>
>     contents = open(filename, "r").read()
>
> and know the file object will be immediately closed after its contents
> are returned.

Not quite; it means you know that the object *becomes a candidate* for
cleanup immediately after its contents are returned.

When, or whether, that cleanup actually happens is not something that is
necessarily promised by a reference-counting implementation.

-- 
 \      ?I tell you the truth: some standing here will not taste death |
  `\     before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.? ?Jesus |
_o__)                     Christ, c. 30 CE, as quoted in Matthew 16:28 |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 24 20:47:48 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:47:48 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <87r5oa3x2z.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:39:08 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
> > commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in
> > that it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.
>
> Not quite.
>
> I've read tens of thousands of messages to comp.lang.python, and
> solicited perhaps some hundreds. Are all the rest spam? I should say
> not! I haven't solicited them: at no point did I say, explicitly or
> implicitly, "Hey strangers all over the world, send me messages asking
> questions about Python"

By subscribing to the forum, I maintain that you do exactly that.

> but I do welcome them.

Whether they're welcome or not, they're solicited in the sense of being
delivered to the recipient who explicitly asked to receive messages on a
particular range of topics.

When a message that is well outside the nominal range of topics for a
forum is broadcast to recipients by means of that forum, the message is
unsolicited.

-- 
 \         ?All my life I've had one dream: to achieve my many goals.? |
  `\                                            ?Homer, _The Simpsons_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From m.76ahesh at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 20:59:48 2010
From: m.76ahesh at gmail.com (hot girl)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
Message-ID: <9c9046ef-7e46-4b79-862e-e7d5be08d336@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
CHECK OUR VAST PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS INCLUDING
PROJECTS FOR FREE AT
http://presentationsandseminars.blogspot.com


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb 24 21:04:01 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:04:01 -0300
Subject: Easter Eggs
References: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8nuozc9x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:40:50 -0300, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no>  
escribi?:

> I know 3 Python Easter Eggs,
>
>    from __future__ import braces
>    import this
>    help( "antigravity" )
>
> Are there more?

Also try:
import antigravity

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From roy at panix.com  Wed Feb 24 21:27:55 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:27:55 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<pan.2010.02.25.00.22.45@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <roy-267B47.21275524022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <pan.2010.02.25.00.22.45 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> # Function that does stuff
> def doStuff():
>     while not wise(up):
>         yield scorn
> 
> 
> which means the biggest problem is that they had the perfect opportunity 
> to create a useful docstring and instead f***ed it up by turning it into 
> a useless comment.
> 
> The best way to teach them better is to introduce them to the joys of 
> help(doStuff) and doctests.

Try the ROI (Return On Investment) argument.

A programmer costs $X per hour (at first blush, take their salary, multiply 
by 1.5 for indirect costs, and divide by 2000 working hours per year).  It 
took them N minutes to write that text, so now you know how much that piece 
of text cost in dollars.

Given that you've invested that money, what's the best way to maximize your 
ROI?  Well, you could take that text, and put it in front of the 'def' 
line.  The ROI in that you can read the text when you view the source code.  
Perhaps by printing it out on green-bar, or carving it into clay tablets 
with a pointed stick.

Or, you could put it after the 'def' line.  Now, you can still read it when 
viewing the source file.  But, you can also access it with help().  Or by 
getting the functions __doc__ string.  Three times the ROI!  Even the most 
pointy-haired bean counter can grok the fullness of that.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 21:42:31 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:42:31 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
Message-ID: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Hi,
My student has been developing a GUI (using PyQt and PyQwt) that runs a model 
written in Fortran and built as a DLL.  She has to present on this work 
tomorrow.  She makes an executable version of the Python code with py2exe, and 
the executable runs fine on her Vista laptop and my XP machine.  It doesn't run 
on the PC that she must use for her talk tomorrow.  The Fortran DLL code is 
started up, it writes some text output to a couple of log files, then it fails 
with a WindowsError (000001d) which is a write error.  I suspect that this is 
the first attempt to write to a socket (communication from the DLL to Python is 
via sockets).  The only clue is that the machines that her program runs on have 
Python installed, while the one that fails doesn't.  Therefore I suspect that 
py2exe has omitted a necessary Python DLL.  How can I track down what might be 
missing?

Thanks
Gib


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 24 22:10:14 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:10:14 +0000
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
In-Reply-To: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <4B85EA16.5090002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Gib Bogle wrote:
> Hi,
> My student has been developing a GUI (using PyQt and PyQwt) that runs a 
> model written in Fortran and built as a DLL.  She has to present on this 
> work tomorrow.  She makes an executable version of the Python code with 
> py2exe, and the executable runs fine on her Vista laptop and my XP 
> machine.  It doesn't run on the PC that she must use for her talk 
> tomorrow.  The Fortran DLL code is started up, it writes some text 
> output to a couple of log files, then it fails with a WindowsError 
> (000001d) which is a write error.  I suspect that this is the first 
> attempt to write to a socket (communication from the DLL to Python is 
> via sockets).  The only clue is that the machines that her program runs 
> on have Python installed, while the one that fails doesn't.  Therefore I 
> suspect that py2exe has omitted a necessary Python DLL.  How can I track 
> down what might be missing?
> 
You could try Dependency Walker: http://dependencywalker.com/



From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 22:34:16 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:34:16 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <hm3i9f$dt1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.150.1266979970.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm28pe$sj0$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm3i9f$dt1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <fca207171002241934o20dee6b3sb422c15a1291e0f5@mail.gmail.com>

>
> If you like, but I tend to interpret "meta-" as idempotent. It's easier on
> my aspirin budget.
>
> --
> Robert Kern

And here I thought it was little blue pills for idempotentcy...


----

Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate. -- brazzy

Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of
stairs.

To argue that honorable conduct is only required against an honorable
enemy degrades the Americans who must carry out the orders. -- Charles
Krulak, Former Commandant of the Marine Corps

We are all slave to our own paradigm. -- Joshua Williams

If the letters PhD appear after a person's name, that person will
remain outdoors even after it's started raining. -- Jeff Kay


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 23:14:56 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:14:56 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hm4tg1$v02$1@dough.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:39:08 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> 
>> Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
>> commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in that
>> it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.
> 
> Not quite.
> 
> I've read tens of thousands of messages to comp.lang.python, and 
> solicited perhaps some hundreds. Are all the rest spam? I should say not!
> I haven't solicited them: at no point did I say, explicitly or 
> implicitly, "Hey strangers all over the world, send me messages asking 
> questions about Python" but I do welcome them.
> 
> (In fact, I'd be annoyed if everyone started sending the questions to me 
> personally instead of to the list.)
> 
> I think it is foolish to try to create a water-tight definition of 
> "spam". It is clearly a fuzzy concept, which means sometimes right-
> thinking people can have legitimate disagreements as to whether or not 
> something is "spam".
> 
> For example, I happen to think that the OP's message about Fascism is off-
> topic but not spam. I think Joan is guilty of a breach of etiquette for 
> failing to label it [OT] in the subject line, and she should have 
> directed replies to a more appropriate forum (a mailing list, another 
> newsgroup, a web forum, anywhere but here). But in my opinion, it didn't 
> cross the line into spam. I wouldn't be the slightest bit tempted to 
> killfile her, or flag the message as spam, in my mail/news client.
> 
> If other people feel differently, well, that's your personal choice. But 
> please don't try to tell me that *my* line between spam and ham is wrong, 
> and that *yours* is the only correct one. 
> 
> (That last response is aimed at a generic You, not Ben specifically. 
> Stupid English language, why can't we have a word for generic you?)
> 
> 
That's why SpamBayes allows per-user training.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 23:35:56 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:35:56 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4unc$h9m$1@speranza.aioe.org>

MRAB wrote:
> Gib Bogle wrote:
>> Hi,
>> My student has been developing a GUI (using PyQt and PyQwt) that runs 
>> a model written in Fortran and built as a DLL.  She has to present on 
>> this work tomorrow.  She makes an executable version of the Python 
>> code with py2exe, and the executable runs fine on her Vista laptop and 
>> my XP machine.  It doesn't run on the PC that she must use for her 
>> talk tomorrow.  The Fortran DLL code is started up, it writes some 
>> text output to a couple of log files, then it fails with a 
>> WindowsError (000001d) which is a write error.  I suspect that this is 
>> the first attempt to write to a socket (communication from the DLL to 
>> Python is via sockets).  The only clue is that the machines that her 
>> program runs on have Python installed, while the one that fails 
>> doesn't.  Therefore I suspect that py2exe has omitted a necessary 
>> Python DLL.  How can I track down what might be missing?
>>
> You could try Dependency Walker: http://dependencywalker.com/
> 

Wow!  I've heard of it, but never used it.  The result is intriguing, but 
baffling.  When I look at the executable ABM15.exe on my machine (where it runs 
OK), I see a couple of harmless messages, but interestingly the program shows up 
with a checksum inconsistency, between Link Checksum and Real Checksum. 
Apparently this causes no issues on my machine.

On another XP machine, where the program fails with the write error, there is 
first a pop-up with this message:
"Errors were detected when processing ABM15.exe.  See the log for details."

In the log there are two significant messages:

"Error: The side-by-side configuration information for ABM15.exe contains 
errors.  The application has failed to start because the application 
configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application may fix this problem 
(14001)."
(the checksum discrepancy is there also)

"MSJAVA.DLL  Error opening file.  The system cannot find the file specified (2)."
(needless to say, I'm not using Java, and MSJAVA.dll is not on the other machine 
either)

I find it very puzzling that the "configuration information" (whatever that is) 
is OK on one machine and erroneous on another.  DependencyWalker is obviously 
onto something - but what?

(At this stage snide comments about Windows will be received without comment.)


From jackdied at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 00:10:50 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:10:50 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8e622741002242110r3af18972m7b04a8b9bebc27fc@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Jonathan Gardner
<jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger
> <usenot at geekmail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
>> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>>
>
> kill -9 seems to work for me.

kill -1 -1

Back in the days of thin X terminals I used that one as a quicker
alternative to actually logging out.  It is also useful if you start a
fork bunny and need to hit the panic switch before the machine grinds
to a halt.

-Jack


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 00:22:04 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:22:04 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - correction
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm51dt$kg8$1@speranza.aioe.org>

The program doesn't fail with the write error on the other XP machine, it 
actually fails to execute at all, complaining about the configuration 
information.  Therefore I'm seeing different behaviour on three XP machines:

Box 1 (SP2): runs OK
Box 2 (SP3): fails to start
Box 3 (SP3): starts up, all Qt stuff works, fails after invoking the Fortran DLL

Just to add to the confusion, execution is successful on a Windows 7 box.

I forgot to mention that the laptop on which the program was built (and where it 
runs OK) is using Vista.  I now see that it will probably be necessary to build 
separate Vista and XP versions - I should have realized this earlier, but was 
misled by the fact that the Vista-built program runs OK on my XP SP2 box.


From timr at probo.com  Thu Feb 25 00:44:32 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:44:32 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between (Verify) Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvo8r$n6s$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pf3co59skipjgl9n59v5e9ohq9uh0mvdod@4ax.com>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

>Maybe someone could verify my result?
>
>open file
>read file line
>print line
>close file
>
>data 1234
>
>Execute it in a folder
>
>Create another folder and copy the program to it.
>put in a new data file as
>
>data 4567
>
>Execute the copied program
>Does it give
>data1234?

No, of course not.

  C:\tmp\x>echo data 1234>data.txt

  C:\tmp\x>type check.py
  f = open('data.txt','r')
  print f.read()
  f.close()

  C:\tmp\x>check.py
  data 1234

  C:\tmp\x>cd ..\y

  C:\tmp\y>echo data 4567>data.txt

  C:\tmp\y>copy ..\x\check.py .
          1 file(s) copied.

  C:\tmp\y>check.py
  data 4567

  C:\tmp\y>

Would you like to post your exact code?
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From half.italian at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 00:46:25 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:46:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executable problem - correction
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<hm51dt$kg8$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <885c2e20-e4da-4aeb-bae7-7b3573bb1be1@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 9:22?pm, Gib Bogle <g.bo... at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
> The program doesn't fail with the write error on the other XP machine, it
> actually fails to execute at all, complaining about the configuration
> information. ?Therefore I'm seeing different behaviour on three XP machines:
>
> Box 1 (SP2): runs OK
> Box 2 (SP3): fails to start
> Box 3 (SP3): starts up, all Qt stuff works, fails after invoking the Fortran DLL
>
> Just to add to the confusion, execution is successful on a Windows 7 box.
>
> I forgot to mention that the laptop on which the program was built (and where it
> runs OK) is using Vista. ?I now see that it will probably be necessary to build
> separate Vista and XP versions - I should have realized this earlier, but was
> misled by the fact that the Vista-built program runs OK on my XP SP2 box.

Did you compile the program with python 2.6?  Try compiling with 2.5.

~Sean


From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Thu Feb 25 00:48:10 2010
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:48:10 -0300
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
In-Reply-To: <hm3rsd$mee$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <9e2f512b1002240907v66682f1fi7d4d4c7d2dabd880@mail.gmail.com>
	<hm3rsd$mee$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <9e2f512b1002242148v2be5b4e2i387a54ee39f8dcd6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> ? ? ? ?No there isn't... The problem is that you need to put the wildcards
> into the parameter instead of the placeholder.

Thank you, it works now.
Best,
SB


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 01:00:26 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:00:26 +1300
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.25.01.06.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>	<pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.153.1267002759.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.06.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7umhcaF9rkU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Not that I don't believe you (I do!) but could you demonstrate for the 
> record?

I posted a demonstration of this earlier in this thread. The
key thing is the __subclasses__() method of a class. You can
start with any object, work your way up the base class chain
to object, and then use __subclasses__() to get to any builtin
class in the system, including file.

There was a sandboxing scheme put forward a while back which
involves vetting the code and disallowing the use of any
double-underscore attribute names. With a suitably censored
set of builtin functions, this prevents the use of the
__subclasses__ hack, as well as some other potential lines
of attack. As far as I know, nobody managed to break it at
the time, but it probably hasn't been tested much in
the real world, if at all, so I probably wouldn't recommend
using it for anything critical.

-- 
Greg


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 01:53:37 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:53:37 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - correction
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm51dt$kg8$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<885c2e20-e4da-4aeb-bae7-7b3573bb1be1@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm56ph$r6u$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Sean DiZazzo wrote:
> On Feb 24, 9:22 pm, Gib Bogle <g.bo... at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
>> The program doesn't fail with the write error on the other XP machine, it
>> actually fails to execute at all, complaining about the configuration
>> information.  Therefore I'm seeing different behaviour on three XP machines:
>>
>> Box 1 (SP2): runs OK
>> Box 2 (SP3): fails to start
>> Box 3 (SP3): starts up, all Qt stuff works, fails after invoking the Fortran DLL
>>
>> Just to add to the confusion, execution is successful on a Windows 7 box.
>>
>> I forgot to mention that the laptop on which the program was built (and where it
>> runs OK) is using Vista.  I now see that it will probably be necessary to build
>> separate Vista and XP versions - I should have realized this earlier, but was
>> misled by the fact that the Vista-built program runs OK on my XP SP2 box.
> 
> Did you compile the program with python 2.6?  Try compiling with 2.5.
> 
> ~Sean

I'll have to check with Helvin, but I believe 2.6 was needed for the version of 
PyQt that she has installed.


From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 02:01:58 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:01:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Regular expression issue
Message-ID: <3c13650c-a16d-422b-93f2-53d376c693d0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

The following is a sample of my problem. I get input from user and
store it in variable 'b'. I want to match the user input with the
contents of another variable 'a'. However I m not able to get the
exact match. Could someone help?

>>> print a
c
c+

>>> b
'c+'
>>> re.search(b,a).group()
'c'

In the above example I want re to find the string 'c+' instead of 'c'.
I want a solution without escaping the '+' symbol with backslash
because it is given by the user.

Thanks,
~Ashok.


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 25 02:03:30 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:03:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja> <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 8:05?pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>
> > Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>
> It avoids the need for garbage collection.

That's like saying that driving a VW Beetle avoids the need for an
automobile.  Reference counting is a form of garbage collection (like
mark-sweep, copy-collect, and others), not a way of avoiding it.

You're right that ref counting in many implementations is more
deterministic than other common forms of garbage collection; IMO,
Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec--or at least
guaranteeing that when a function returns, any otherwise unreferenced
locals are immediately collected.

I could be convinced otherwise, but I _think_ that that change would
offer an alternative to all of the interesting cases of where the
"with" statement is "useful".


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 02:30:20 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:30:20 +0000
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>

dontspamleo <dontsendleospam at gmail.com> writes:

> @Arnaud: I tried to find your earlier post -- googled "Arnaud lambda"
> -- but couldn't.

I remembered after posting that I sent this to python-ideas. Here is the
first message in the thread:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2007-December/001260.html

In this thread, someone claims that this issue was discussed when
genexps were first added to the language, but doesn't remember the
rationale for taking this decision.  Perhaps someone knows what
discussion they refer to...

-- 
Arnaud


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 02:46:41 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:46:41 +1300
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
In-Reply-To: <atef57-5u1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Xns9D296B281C59Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hm2vjv$csj$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<atef57-5u1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <7umnjeF3epU1@mid.individual.net>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> so why not:
> 
>   while <expression> as <name>:
>       ...
> 
> and also:
> 
>   if <expression> as <name>:
>       ...

This sort of thing has been suggested repeatedly in the
past, and it's always been rejected. That's not likely to
change. Look up the past threads for the reasons why.

-- 
Greg


From jayeola at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 02:54:00 2010
From: jayeola at gmail.com (john maclean)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:54:00 -0500
Subject: pydoc errors
Message-ID: <4170c1721002242354q5057b2b3p46311d567777afc4@mail.gmail.com>

python version is 2.6.2 does any one else have this issue? Seen a few
closed tickets for various Linux Distros but it is obvoiusly still my
problem.


help> modules

Please wait a moment while I gather a list of all available modules...

dm.c: 1640: not running as root returning empty list

** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype 'WnckWindowState' as
flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'

** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype 'WnckWindowActions'
as flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'

** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype
'WnckWindowMoveResizeMask' as flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/httplib2/__init__.py:29:
DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
import md5
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/httplib2/__init__.py:44:
DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib
module instead
import sha
2010-02-25 01:20:10.483800: ERROR: Could not load the stocks from
/home/jmaclean/.gnome2/invest-applet/stocks.pickle: [Errno 2] No such
file or directory:
'/home/jmaclean/.gnome2/invest-applet/stocks.pickle'
You must run this application as root

-- 
John Maclean
07739 171 531
MSc (DIC)

Enterprise Linux Systems Engineer


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 02:55:51 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:55:51 +1300
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7umo4kF7q8U1@mid.individual.net>

Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> I still don't understand why is it a bad idea in the case of
> globals().
> This is the only way I know to define variables programatically in the
> top-level namespace, without having to do it manually one by one.

The point is that creating variables whose names are computed
at run time is usually a misguided thing to do in the first
place.

Think about it -- how are you going to *use* those variables
that you've created?

If the answer is that you're going to go looking for a way
to read the values of variables whose names are computed at
run time, you might as well not use variables at all, but
just keep their values in a dictionary.

-- 
Greg


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Thu Feb 25 02:56:05 2010
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:56:05 +0000
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

kj <no.email at please.post> writes:

> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
> it!

No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
(other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
be nested.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 25 02:56:18 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:56:18 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xmxyxiw9p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"sjdevnull at yahoo.com" <sjdevnull at yahoo.com> writes:
> IMO, Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
> currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec...
> I could be convinced otherwise, but I _think_ that that change would
> offer an alternative to all of the interesting cases of where the
> "with" statement is "useful".

The whole point of introducing the "with" statement was help cleanly get
rid of the ugly and unsound reliance on refcounting semantics found in
so much python code.  Your proposal is aimed in the wrong direction.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 25 02:58:39 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:58:39 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <7xiq9liw5s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
> Pointer-chasing is a cache- hostile activity. Garbage collection
> involves a lot of pointer-chasing, particularly of dead objects that
> have long since been flushed from the cache, compared with reference
> counting of recently-accessed objects.  Therefore garbage collection
> loses performance.

Serious gc's these days only touch live data, not garbage; and they work
on small enough regions of memory most of the time (generational
scavenging) to not have too many cache misses.  Also, hyperthreading
seems to be coming back, allowing cpu cores to multitask in the presence
of cache misses.


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 25 03:10:51 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:10:51 +0100
Subject: Regular expression issue
References: <3c13650c-a16d-422b-93f2-53d376c693d0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5ba6$bhv$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Ashok Prabhu wrote:

> The following is a sample of my problem. I get input from user and
> store it in variable 'b'. I want to match the user input with the
> contents of another variable 'a'. However I m not able to get the
> exact match. Could someone help?
> 
>>>> print a
> c
> c+
> 
>>>> b
> 'c+'
>>>> re.search(b,a).group()
> 'c'
> 
> In the above example I want re to find the string 'c+' instead of 'c'.
> I want a solution without escaping the '+' symbol with backslash
> because it is given by the user.

>>> a = "yadda c+ yadda"
>>> b = "c+"
>>> re.search(re.escape(b), a).group()
'c+'

But if you aren't interested in anything but string literals, you should use 
string search:

>>> a.index(b)
6

Peter


From aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 03:24:14 2010
From: aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:24:14 -0600
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <7umo4kF7q8U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7umo4kF7q8U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002250024q634b9c17t55fd7bc7649b917c@mail.gmail.com>

The problem i see with using globals() is that it can overwrite a previously
defined function or key within the global namespace, making the code
potentially dangerous and wild with exploits.

my $0.02

-Alex Goretoy
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From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 25 03:35:10 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:35:10 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5co1$b11$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* sjdevnull at yahoo.com:
> On Feb 24, 8:05 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>>
>>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>> It avoids the need for garbage collection.
> 
> That's like saying that driving a VW Beetle avoids the need for an
> automobile.  Reference counting is a form of garbage collection (like
> mark-sweep, copy-collect, and others), not a way of avoiding it.
> 
> You're right that ref counting in many implementations is more
> deterministic than other common forms of garbage collection; IMO,
> Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
> currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec--or at least
> guaranteeing that when a function returns, any otherwise unreferenced
> locals are immediately collected.
> 
> I could be convinced otherwise, but I _think_ that that change would
> offer an alternative to all of the interesting cases of where the
> "with" statement is "useful".

Well, relying on ref-counted garbage collection for cleanup actions (other than 
reclaiming memory) is pretty brittle in a language based on general garbage 
collection. As soon as a reference to X sneaks away somewhere, X doesn't clean 
up at scope's end, which is not a catastrophe in itself but means there's no 
telling when it happens or indeed whether it happens at all.

I'm not sure but as I recall the D language has a solution to this, sort of 
declaring X so that no references to it can be retained anywhere, but it's a 
very different language. And Eiffel has the "expanded type" thing for "no 
references", but does it use that to support deterministic cleanup? I don't know 
whether the Eiffel 'dispose' is called for an expanded object.

C# has a 'using' like Python 'with'. It works, sort of, but adds a lot of 
complexity. C++ has the notion of optional garbage collection (formalized in 
C++0x) with cleanup actions not tied to memory reclamation but to 
deterministically invoked destructors and I think that as an /idea/ that is 
clean and good, but in practice almost no-one uses garbage collection with C++, 
and reportedly the least unpopular implementation (the Boehm collector) imposes 
some very stiff requirements on the code.

So I think there's no really good solution: the price for simplicity in one 
dimension is some complexity in another dimension, here deterministic cleanup 
and the problem of zombie objects (garbage collection simplifies a lot of things 
while zombie objects, objects that have had explicit cleanup performed and thus 
are invalid in a sense, compensate by adding back in a lot of complexity).


Cheers,

- Alf


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 03:43:08 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:43:08 +1300
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <7umqtdFlrrU1@mid.individual.net>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to assumptions 
> that programs will obey locality of reference. Pointer-chasing is a cache-
> hostile activity.

Another thing to consider is the rate at which garbage is
created. Java's fundamental types (ints, floats, etc.) are
unboxed, and objects are only used for relatively heavyweight
things. So you can do quite a lot of useful computation in
Java without creating any objects or leaving behind any
garbage.

In Python, on the other hand, you can't even do arithmetic
without creating and destroying intermediate objects at
every step. Collecting those objects promptly means that
the same areas of memory tend to get re-used over and
over, resulting in better cacheing behaviour.

So I don't think you can assume that just because Java's
garbage collection scheme works well for Java that it would
also necessarily work well for Python.

-- 
Greg


From m.38ahesh at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 04:08:54 2010
From: m.38ahesh at gmail.com (Sree Rama)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:08:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why born like human? Read Ramayana & Follow Rama.
Message-ID: <f52eac63-1cc2-4db9-9cbb-a0b03c236769@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Why born like human? Read Ramayana & Follow Rama.

Once in a life you should read this great story, read this story in
simple language at

http://ramayanastory-rama.blogspot.com/2010/02/sri-rama-prince-of-ayodhya.html


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 04:13:23 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:13:23 +0100
Subject: pydoc errors
In-Reply-To: <mailman.213.1267084442.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.213.1267084442.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7umt9jF38rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 25.02.10 08:54, schrieb john maclean:
> python version is 2.6.2 does any one else have this issue? Seen a few
> closed tickets for various Linux Distros but it is obvoiusly still my
> problem.
>
>
> help>  modules
>
> Please wait a moment while I gather a list of all available modules...
>
> dm.c: 1640: not running as root returning empty list
>
> ** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype 'WnckWindowState' as
> flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'
>
> ** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype 'WnckWindowActions'
> as flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'
>
> ** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype
> 'WnckWindowMoveResizeMask' as flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'
> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/httplib2/__init__.py:29:
> DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
> import md5
> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/httplib2/__init__.py:44:
> DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib
> module instead
> import sha
> 2010-02-25 01:20:10.483800: ERROR: Could not load the stocks from
> /home/jmaclean/.gnome2/invest-applet/stocks.pickle: [Errno 2] No such
> file or directory:
> '/home/jmaclean/.gnome2/invest-applet/stocks.pickle'
> You must run this application as root

To me it looks as if one of your installed applications has nasty 
side-effects on module import. De-install it if possible, and see if 
that helps.

Diez



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 25 04:28:30 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:28:30 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hm5co1$b11$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7xvddlslz5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:
> So I think there's no really good solution: the price for simplicity
> in one dimension is some complexity in another dimension, 

You could look at the way Cyclone (http://cyclone.thelanguage.org) does
region inference, and maybe combine that with a tracing gc.  There are
some functional language compilers that also use region inference.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb 25 04:41:09 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:41:09 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002250141x5b40b3b8gf11e077ba8a80fef@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:03 PM, sjdevnull at yahoo.com
<sjdevnull at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 8:05?pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>>
>> > Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>>
>> It avoids the need for garbage collection.
>
> That's like saying that driving a VW Beetle avoids the need for an
> automobile. ?Reference counting is a form of garbage collection (like
> mark-sweep, copy-collect, and others), not a way of avoiding it.
>
> You're right that ref counting in many implementations is more
> deterministic than other common forms of garbage collection; IMO,
> Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
> currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec--or at least
> guaranteeing that when a function returns, any otherwise unreferenced
> locals are immediately collected.
>
> I could be convinced otherwise, but I _think_ that that change would
> offer an alternative to all of the interesting cases of where the
> "with" statement is "useful".

You're forgetting global context objects, such as those for Decimal:
http://docs.python.org/library/decimal.html#decimal.localcontext

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 05:24:09 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:24:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au> 
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <e6b80ea2-53ad-46d4-8b1f-113cf5ff1fca@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>



Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> (That last response is aimed at a generic You, not Ben specifically.
> Stupid English language, why can't we have a word for generic you?)

I thought the word was "one".

--
Arnaud


From nanyaks at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 05:26:18 2010
From: nanyaks at googlemail.com (simn_stv)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
Message-ID: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

hello people, i have been reading posts on this group for quite some
time now and many, if not all (actually not all!), seem quite
interesting.
i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
(hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
gets pretty busy...
so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.

would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...

im sorry if my subject was not as clear as probably should be!.
i guess this should be the best place to ask this sort of thing, hope
im so right.

Thanks


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 25 05:32:30 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:32:30 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>

Michael Rudolf wrote:
> First: Thanks for all the replies so far, they really helped me.
>
> Am 24.02.2010 11:28, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>>> >>> def a(x=None):
>>>     if x is None:
>>>         pass
>>>     else:
>>>         pass
>>>
>> This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 docstring,
>> 1 way do do it, 1 interface.
>
> Yes, I see. Actually I do now realize that even in Java I use method 
> overloading mostly to implement optional arguments anyway, like:
>
> void constructor(){this.foo='foo'; this.initotherstuff();}
> void constructor(int x) {this.x=x; this.constructor();}
>
> and so on.
>
> So most of the time the idiom above is exactly what I need, as the 
> versions of the function share code anyway.
>
> But there are also cases where they do something completely different 
> - in these cases I might use one of the other solutions provided here 
> or simply make two or three functions and name them appropiately.
>
> I do now see that the pythonic approach is the "best" for most cases, 
> but I really loved to see that you *can* do overloading in a 
> convenient way if you really want to :D Those decorators just rock :D
>
> Thanks again,
> Michael
You said it yourself: "simply make two or three functions and name them 
appropiately" :-)

When 2 methods of a class were to have the same name for doing 
completely different things like you said, there's a design flaw to my 
opinion.

JM


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 25 05:44:31 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:44:31 -0600
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4B86548F.4070305@tim.thechases.com>

Paul Rudin wrote:
> kj <no.email at please.post> writes:
> 
>> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
>> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
>> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
>> it!
> 
> No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
> (other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
> be nested.

Well, there's always "if 0"/"if False", but that requires 
screwing with the indentation levels.  Granted, any competent 
text editor will allow you to easily shift code indentation (I 
know Vim does, and am pretty sure Emacs will let you do the 
same...YMMV with other editors).

But yes, there have been times that a multi-line commenting that 
doesn't touch your indentation would be nice, and I confess to 
using triple-quotes to do that (opting for """ or ''' based on 
the type of triple-quotes found in the code).  However, I usually 
limit this for debugging purposes and they usually get pruned or 
uncommented for production code.

-tkc





From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 25 05:50:05 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:50:05 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm3nnb$5rr$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.111.1266936500.4577.python-list@python.org>	<dd162444-4788-4d6c-b30a-04ae32faf1dc@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hm3nnb$5rr$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm5kkt$sh$1@dough.gmane.org>

mk, 24.02.2010 18:30:
> On 2010-02-24 03:26, George Sakkis wrote:
>>> Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this:
>>>
>>> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav...
>>>
>>> This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword "Java"
>>> appears.
>>>
>>> Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now:
>>>
>>> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh...
>>
>> This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other
>> countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g.
>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23&l=
> 
> Interesting, and I was thinking that UK sample was big enough for such
> things not to matter.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics ...

Stefan



From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 05:56:41 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:56:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using mock library (written by Michael Foord)
Message-ID: <5989a385-ee81-4708-8409-3299e83dcfa7@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hello!

I use mock library http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/. There is
no user group for the library, so I post in comp.lang.python and hope
that people who use it will help me.

The library allows to patch objects, using patch decorator. Patching
is done only within the scope of the function. So if I have a lot of
tests that need specific object to be patched I have to specify the
same decorator for each test method:

class TestSomething(unittest.TestCase):

    @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
    def test_method1(self, MockClass):
        Class()
        self.assertEquals(MockClass.called)

    @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
    def test_method2(self, MockClass):
        Class()
        MockClass.assert_called_with('foo')

    @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
     def test_method3(self, MockClass):
        foo = Class()
        self.assertRaises(AttributeError, foo.some_method)

    # and more ...

So for every test method I always do the same patching! How can I
avoid this?

Thanks in advance.
Sorry if my English isn't proper enough.

With regards,
Maxim.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 25 05:58:30 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:58:30 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B8657D6.6080703@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Michael Rudolf wrote:
>> First: Thanks for all the replies so far, they really helped me.
>>
>> Am 24.02.2010 11:28, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>>>> >>> def a(x=None):
>>>>     if x is None:
>>>>         pass
>>>>     else:
>>>>         pass
>>>>
>>> This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 
>>> docstring,
>>> 1 way do do it, 1 interface.
>>
>> Yes, I see. Actually I do now realize that even in Java I use method 
>> overloading mostly to implement optional arguments anyway, like:
>>
>> void constructor(){this.foo='foo'; this.initotherstuff();}
>> void constructor(int x) {this.x=x; this.constructor();}
>>
>> and so on.
>>
>> So most of the time the idiom above is exactly what I need, as the 
>> versions of the function share code anyway.
>>
>> But there are also cases where they do something completely different 
>> - in these cases I might use one of the other solutions provided here 
>> or simply make two or three functions and name them appropiately.
>>
>> I do now see that the pythonic approach is the "best" for most cases, 
>> but I really loved to see that you *can* do overloading in a 
>> convenient way if you really want to :D Those decorators just rock :D
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Michael
> You said it yourself: "simply make two or three functions and name 
> them appropiately" :-)
>
> When 2 methods of a class were to have the same name for doing 
> completely different things like you said, there's a design flaw to my 
> opinion.
>
> JM
I wonder if I've just written that my opinion is flawed... It surely is, 
but that's not why I meant :-)

JM


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 25 06:13:28 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:13:28 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5m0v$4f1$1@dough.gmane.org>

simn_stv wrote:
> hello people, i have been reading posts on this group for quite some
> time now and many, if not all (actually not all!), seem quite
> interesting.
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> gets pretty busy...
> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.
> 
> would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
> able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...
> 
> im sorry if my subject was not as clear as probably should be!.
> i guess this should be the best place to ask this sort of thing, hope
> im so right.
> 
> Thanks

I'd suggest that if you are running an operation that gets 100,000 hits
a day then your problems won't be with Python but with organizational
aspects of your operation.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 25 06:21:30 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:21:30 +0000
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5mfo$mg1$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/25/10 10:26, simn_stv wrote:
<cut>
> what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.
>
> would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
> able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...
<cut>
Python isn't the most efficient language, the assembler provided by the 
maker of your CPU probably is the best you can get, everything after 
that is a trade-off between performance and flexibility (flexible in the 
most flexible sense of the word :-)).

That being said, for me, Python (well actually any turing complete 
programming language), is more like a box of lego with infinite amount 
of pieces.
Scalability and API issues are the same as the shape and function of the 
model your making with lego.

Sure some type of pieces might be more suited than other types but since 
you can simulate any type of piece with the ones that are already 
present, you are more limited by your imagination than by the language.

So in short, I don't see any serious problems using Python, I have used 
it in Enterprise environments without any problems but than again I was 
aware not to use it for numerical intensive parts without the use of 3rd 
party libraries like numpy. Which for me resulted in not doing the 
compression of a database delta's in pure python but to offload that to 
a more suitable external program, still controlled from Python though.

-- 
mph


From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Thu Feb 25 06:45:22 2010
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:45:22 +0000
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1267098322.21809.26.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 02:26 -0800, simn_stv wrote:
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> gets pretty busy...

I've got apps running that handle *well* over 100,000 hits / process /
day using Python - although some of the heavy lifting is off-loaded to C
and MySql - obviously without actually looking at your requirements that
doesn't mean much as I don't know how much work each hit requires.

Regarding financial transactions - you'll almost certainly want to
integrate with something that already has transactional support (sql
etc) - so I expect that will bear the brunt of the load

> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))

I've avoided integrating java with my python (I'm not a big fan of java)
- but I've integrated quite a bit of C - it's fairly easy to do, and you
can just port the inner loops if you see the need arise.

> ...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.

I've heard that php can be well scaled (by compiling it to bytecode/C++)
- but my preference would always be to python.

Tim



From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 06:58:11 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:58:11 +1100
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <99bd0874-3462-4bb3-8c3c-54b73c88f9a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hlp9ju$o2d$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b807791$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<99bd0874-3462-4bb3-8c3c-54b73c88f9a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8665f5$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 17:07, MattB wrote:
> All -- problem solved.  Following Lie's suggestions, and the links
> from those pages, I went hunting around in my /library/preferences/
> SystemConfiguration/.  I opened all of the 6 or 7 files that were in
> there, and all looked as if they contained info directly related to my
> airport card -- networks, server names, etc.  So I copied them to a
> backup folder and then deleted them. Then I rebooted.

Glad to hear your problem solved.

> Then I opened IDLE and was able to raise URLs again.  I'm not sure
> what it was about those files (or maybe a specific one) -- does anyone
> have any ideas?

Do the files get auto-generated? If they do, perhaps you could try
diff-ing them with your backups and get some clue of what caused it.

> Thanks for your help and suggestions while I tried to figure this out.



From prasad.chand at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:23:24 2010
From: prasad.chand at gmail.com (prasad_chand)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:23:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A more pythonish code
Message-ID: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I use python to do simple math problems as a hobby.

I have made a program that finds the number of divisors(factors) of a
given number. I am hoping to improve my language skills, specifically
I would like to re-write the function "prime_factors" more gracefully.
While the program works right, I am hoping that I could get some input
on how to write better python code. I have attached the code below.


def prime_factors(n):
    """
    Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add (4+1)
(1+1) = 10)

    Updates a global dictionary(my_dict) with prime numbers and number
of occurances. In the case of 48 {2:4,3:1}

    """
    tmp_n = n

    while True:

        if tmp_n == 1:
            break

        tmp_check = tmp_n

        for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
            if tmp_n % x == 0:
                add_to_dict(x)
                tmp_n /= x
                break

        if tmp_check == tmp_n: #number is prime...so just to add to
dict
            add_to_dict(tmp_n)
            break


def add_one(x):
    return x+1


def mul(x,y):
    return x * y

def add_to_dict(p_num):
    if my_dict.has_key(p_num):
        my_dict[p_num] += 1
    else:
        my_dict[p_num] = 1


my_dict = {}


prime_factors(135)
l = map(add_one,my_dict.values())
print reduce(mul, l, 1)


Thanks for your time.


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:25:14 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b810953$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <b3dfe5ad-9ca8-4cf7-9055-cdd15dc14dab@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 11:21?am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/21/10 19:27,lallouswrote:
> <snip>
>
> > If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
> > would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
> > want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
> > implement the cb.
>
> That sounds like a microoptimization; have you profiled your code and
> determined that calling empty function causes a bottleneck? I doubt it.
>
> > Now the base class should define it so that doc
> > parsers properly describe the base class.
> > The recipe suggested is not worth the trouble.
> > Unfortunately I cannot use abc module since I use Python 2.5
>
> Because nobody here could have guessed that your dispatcher was written
> in C++; your problem is near trivial if your dispatcher is a pure-python
> code.

You are right. I haven't checked how much it costs to continuously
call an empty function, but why do it if I know (during initialization
from my C++ dispatcher code) that certain Python object should not
have certain methods called.

I still prefer not to call at all, even if it was an empty function.

Regards,
Elias


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:25:48 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:25:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7udu49Fk3uU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <38ddd614-583c-430d-b998-214bd6360eb2@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 12:42?am, Gregory Ewing <greg.ew... at canterbury.ac.nz>
wrote:
> lallouswrote:
> > If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
> > would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
> > want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
> > implement the cb.
>
> I would simply not implement the method at all in the base
> class. Then the C++ code can do an attribute lookup for
> the method, and if it's not found, do nothing.
>
> --
> Greg


That is what I currently do. But if I comment out the implementations
(empty ones) then the documentation generation tool will not document
the callbacks.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:27:03 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:27:03 +1100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
Message-ID: <4b866cb8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/25/10 07:40, Wanja Gayk wrote:
> Am 24.02.2010, 00:22 Uhr, schrieb Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand>:
> 
>>> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
>>> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
>>> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM
>>
>> Python is still faster, though.
> 
> In synthetic microbenchmarks without any practical importance - possibly..
> 
>> I think a key reason is that its VM supports
>> reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.
> 
> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.

I disagree IMO, assuming there is no circular reference, reference
counting is the simple, lightweight, and best garbage collection
technique. Reference counting can free memory (or return it to cache)
right after the refcount turns zero; other traditional garbage
management techniques runs periodically and there's a delay between
getting to zero reference to actual memory release. The other weakness
of traditional garbage managers is the symptomatic "stopping the time"
whenever the GC is running, which makes it unsuitable for time-sensitive
program.

The only weakness of reference counting is its inability to detect
circular reference, which is why CPython have an additional garbage
collector.

> Modern Java VM won't count references. They will just trace the active
> references from the rootand mark all objects it finds as active and save
> these. The remaining ones are garbage. The reason why this is faster is
> that there are usually less live objects than dead ones and there are
> less refereces to look at.

Reference counting is even faster since there is only one object to be
looked at: the object that is being dereferenced. There is no need to
look at other live objects, there is no need to look other dead objects,
just the current object.


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:28:12 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:28:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Walking lists
Message-ID: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello


I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
the code:

L = (
  (1, 2, 3),
  (4,),
  (5,),
  (6, 7)
)

for x in L:
    print x

What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:

for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
  print first_element
  for x in the_rest:
    # now access the rest of the elements

I know I can :
for x in L:
    first = x[0]
    rest = x[1:]
    ....
Probably that is not possible, but just asking.

Thanks,
Elias


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 25 07:45:28 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:45:28 +0100
Subject: Walking lists
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5rd3$pfl$03$1@news.t-online.com>

lallous wrote:

> I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
> the code:
> 
> L = (
>   (1, 2, 3),
>   (4,),
>   (5,),
>   (6, 7)
> )
> 
> for x in L:
>     print x
> 
> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
> 
> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
>   print first_element
>   for x in the_rest:
>     # now access the rest of the elements
> 
> I know I can :
> for x in L:
>     first = x[0]
>     rest = x[1:]
>     ....
> Probably that is not possible, but just asking.

In Python 3 you can write

>>> for first, *rest in L:
...     print("first:", first, "rest:", rest)
...
first: 1 rest: [2, 3]
first: 4 rest: []
first: 5 rest: []
first: 6 rest: [7]

Peter


From nanyaks at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:46:38 2010
From: nanyaks at googlemail.com (simn_stv)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.220.1267096429.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <da57258c-cea1-4a36-9e77-57113222cd22@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 12:13 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> simn_stv wrote:
> > hello people, i have been reading posts on this group for quite some
> > time now and many, if not all (actually not all!), seem quite
> > interesting.
> > i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> > estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> > (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> > or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> > gets pretty busy...
> > so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> > python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> > the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> > God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> > the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> > efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.
>
> > would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
> > able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...
>
> > im sorry if my subject was not as clear as probably should be!.
> > i guess this should be the best place to ask this sort of thing, hope
> > im so right.
>
> > Thanks
>
> I'd suggest that if you are running an operation that gets 100,000 hits
> a day then your problems won't be with Python but with organizational
> aspects of your operation.
>
> regards
>  Steve
> --

very well noted steve, i'd be careful (which is a very relative word)
with the organizational aspects...
i'm sure ure quite rooted in that aspect, hey u need a job??........;)


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:50:51 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:50:51 +1100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b86724d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/25/10 05:18, kj wrote:
> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
> it!

I've never heard of it, though I can think of a few reasons why TQC
might be a bad thing. Especially if a user pydoc-ed your module and see
a bunch of meaningless code.

> Is my memory playing me a trick?
> 
> After all, from what I've seen since then, the practice of
> triple-quote-commenting (or TQC, pardon the TCA) is in fact quite
> common.
> 
> Is TQC OK after all?

I'd say it's OK for quick and dirty code, or when you're rewriting a
significant part of the code especially in early development (or you
haven't setup a version control system since it's a damn small script).
They shouldn't be permanent though, due to docstring problem.

> If not, what's the case against it?
> 
> Also, has the BDFL expressed an opinion on the subject?  Alternatively,
> is there any other more or less "authoritative" opinion on TQC? 


From fat.bold.cyclop at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:00:48 2010
From: fat.bold.cyclop at gmail.com (fat bold cyclop)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:00:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3)  > [1, 2, 3] is true?
Message-ID: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

I tired to google for comparison of tuple to list but i failed.

Could anyone explain it to me?

Best regards,
fat bold cyclop


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 25 08:02:49 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:02:49 -0600
Subject: Walking lists
In-Reply-To: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8674F9.2070904@tim.thechases.com>

lallous wrote:
> L = (
>   (1, 2, 3),
>   (4,),
>   (5,),
>   (6, 7)
> )
> 
> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
> 
> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
>   print first_element
>   for x in the_rest:
>     # now access the rest of the elements

Python 3 introduced a variable tuple assignment which I 
suspect[*] would work in this context:

   for first, *rest in L: # note the asterisk
     print first
     for x in rest:
       do_stuff(x)

> I know I can :
> for x in L:
>     first = x[0]
>     rest = x[1:]

However in 2.x, this is the way to do it.  Though if you want to 
abstract the logic, you can move it to a generator:

   def splitter(i):
     for t in i:
       yield t[0], t[1:]

   for first, rest in splitter(L):
     print first
     for x in rest:
       do_stuff(x)

-tkc



[*] not having py3 on this machine, I can't readily verify this.








From macbeth at panix.com  Thu Feb 25 08:06:40 2010
From: macbeth at panix.com (macbeth)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:06:40 -0500
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <4b86724d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <MMEEKPLCMGEBDALEEHDJEEEMEPAB.macbeth@panix.com>



> From: Lie Ryan

>
> On 02/25/10 05:18, kj wrote:
> > I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
> > the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
> > LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
> > it!
>
> I've never heard of it, though I can think of a few reasons why TQC
> might be a bad thing. Especially if a user pydoc-ed your module and see
> a bunch of meaningless code.

That is why I was told not to use """ to comment code.

Use '#' for code and """ for docs

But, I do not remember reading it any where.

I found this --->
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2004-February/028432.html







From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 25 08:07:59 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:07:59 -0600
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B86762F.9090606@tim.thechases.com>

simn_stv wrote:
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> gets pretty busy...
> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.

Python is as "enterprise" as the developer who wields it.

Scalability revolves entirely around application design & 
implementation.  Or you could use Erlang (or haskell, etc ;-)

-tkc





From gnewsg at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:15:04 2010
From: gnewsg at gmail.com (Giampaolo Rodola')
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:15:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to monitor memory usage within Python? (Linux)
References: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <01248751-3cfb-4603-9b68-9bca36106855@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Feb, 23:35, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> Is there some standard module for getting info about the process's
> memory usage, in a Linux/Unix system?
>
> (I want to avoid hacks that involve, e.g., scraping ps's output.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~K

http://code.google.com/p/psutil

>>> import psutil
>>> p = psutil.Process(7055)
>>> p.cmdline
['/usr/bin/python']
>>> rss, vms =  p.get_memory_info()
>>> "Resident memory: %s KB" %(rss / 1024)
'Resident memory: 3768 KB'
>>> "Virtual memory: %s KB" %(vms / 1024)
'Virtual memory: 6176 KB'
>>> p.get_memory_percent()
0.8342


--- Giampaolo
http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/
http://code.google.com/p/psutil/


From silvio at nospam.com  Thu Feb 25 08:17:55 2010
From: silvio at nospam.com (Silvio)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:17:55 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b867886$0$22913$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>


"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> wrote in message 
news:hm4icr$q4o$1 at lust.ihug.co.nz...
> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>
>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>
> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things 
> like
>
>    contents = open(filename, "r").read()
>
> and know the file object will be immediately closed after its contents are
> returned.
>
> It also means I don?t have to predefine how much memory my program will 
> use.
> A garbage collector will only kick in when the app runs low on memory. On 
> a
> system with dynamic memory allocation, that will not happen until the 
> entire
> system runs low on memory, unless you limit the app to some fixed amount.
> Which is an antiquated way of doing things.
>
> And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to 
> assumptions
> that programs will obey locality of reference. Pointer-chasing is a cache-
> hostile activity. Garbage collection involves a lot of pointer-chasing,
> particularly of dead objects that have long since been flushed from the
> cache, compared with reference counting of recently-accessed objects.
> Therefore garbage collection loses performance.

Reference counting is a technique that is only applicable for a subset of 
scenarios GC can handle. RC fails when circular dependencies exist. In an 
ancient past I have worked with RC-based C++ frameworks and they where 
either very restrictive to prevent circular dependencies or ignored them 
resulting in memory leaks.

In addition, for fast create/destroy scenario's (for examples loops that 
allocate objects with single cycle lifetimes) a generational GC is MUCH 
faster than manual malloc/free new/delete code because it enables a 
completely different heap management logic. Reference counting only adds to 
the slowness in this scenario.
You are also incorrect in stating that a GC will only kick in when memory 
becomes scarce. Partial GCs will happen very frequently (thereby 
invalidating your point about caching) and are extremely fast. Only full GCs 
are infrequent and take more time but they will typically run in a separate 
thread.

No general statement about the relative speed of generational GC systems 
versus manual heap management (or the slower variant RC) can be made since 
they have completely different best, general and worse case behavior and 
scenarios.

In response to your original post: please provide links to examples of 
quality benchmark results. There are numerous language speed comparison 
benchmarks that usually put Python in the tail region with Ruby and the 
likes for many different applications. If you have opposing examples then 
you should provide them.

Silvio
 



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 25 08:26:18 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:26:18 +0100
Subject: Using mock library (written by Michael Foord)
References: <5989a385-ee81-4708-8409-3299e83dcfa7@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5tpl$gfh$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Lacrima wrote:

> I use mock library http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/. There is
> no user group for the library, so I post in comp.lang.python and hope
> that people who use it will help me.
> 
> The library allows to patch objects, using patch decorator. Patching
> is done only within the scope of the function. So if I have a lot of
> tests that need specific object to be patched I have to specify the
> same decorator for each test method:
> 
> class TestSomething(unittest.TestCase):
> 
>     @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
>     def test_method1(self, MockClass):
>         Class()
>         self.assertEquals(MockClass.called)
> 
>     @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
>     def test_method2(self, MockClass):
>         Class()
>         MockClass.assert_called_with('foo')
> 
>     @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
>      def test_method3(self, MockClass):
>         foo = Class()
>         self.assertRaises(AttributeError, foo.some_method)
> 
>     # and more ...
> 
> So for every test method I always do the same patching! How can I
> avoid this?

I don't know mock, but the following is generic and should continue to work 
when you replace the faux patch() function with the one from the mock 
module.

import unittest

def patch(v):
    def patch(f):
        print "%s-patching" % v, f.__name__
        return f
    return patch

def make_postprocess(*args, **kw):
    def postprocess(name, bases, classdict):
        for k, v in classdict.items():
            if k.startswith("test_"):
                classdict[k] = patch(*args, **kw)(v)
        return type(name, bases, classdict)
    return postprocess

class A(unittest.TestCase):
    __metaclass__ = make_postprocess("Y")
    def test_bar(self):
        print "bar"
    def test_baz(self):
        print "baz"
    def foo(self):
        pass

if __name__ == "__main__":
    unittest.main()

Peter




From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:26:45 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:26:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Walking lists
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f3c517ce-233c-4c3e-8e9c-2789ea6f26b2@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>



lallous wrote:
> Hello
>
>
> I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
> the code:
>
> L = (
>   (1, 2, 3),
>   (4,),
>   (5,),
>   (6, 7)
> )
>
> for x in L:
>     print x
>
> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
>
> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
>   print first_element
>   for x in the_rest:
>     # now access the rest of the elements
>
> I know I can :
> for x in L:
>     first = x[0]
>     rest = x[1:]

Others have replied about Python 3.  In Python 2.x, you can use an
iterator:

for tuple in L:
    it = iter(tuple)
    first = it.next()
    for x in it:
        ...

HTH

--
Arnaud


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:30:06 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:30:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Walking lists
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e030ccd8-0bb4-4fc4-a614-3e62c698d4af@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all for the replies.

The solution using Python 3's syntax look very intuitive.

Thanks Tim, Arnaud for the idea (I am using 2.x)

--
Elias
On Feb 25, 1:28?pm, lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello
>
> I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
> the code:
>
> L = (
> ? (1, 2, 3),
> ? (4,),
> ? (5,),
> ? (6, 7)
> )
>
> for x in L:
> ? ? print x
>
> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
>
> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
> ? print first_element
> ? for x in the_rest:
> ? ? # now access the rest of the elements
>
> I know I can :
> for x in L:
> ? ? first = x[0]
> ? ? rest = x[1:]
> ? ? ....
> Probably that is not possible, but just asking.
>
> Thanks,
> Elias



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:30:12 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:30:12 +0100
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
Message-ID: <hm5u13$2u0$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

I have stumbled upon this seemingly trivial problem: the answer is not 
there in http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming/, and googling does 
not return many references really (at least for me).

I have come up with this:

def qips_identical(q, oldq):
     qips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), q)
     oldqips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), oldq)
     if len(qips) != len(oldqips):
         return False
     dif = set(qips) ^ set(oldqips)
     if len(dif):
         return False
     return True

There's a number of complications here, depending on definition of 
'lists with identical values', like whether the same value can be 
repeated different number of times in two lists, or whether the order of 
values matters.

In above example I assumed that the same values have to be repeated the 
same numbers of times in both lists and that order doesn't matter so 
long as the values are the same.

I was wondering if there's a better / shorter / faster way to do this -- 
not necessarily in the same variant, e.g. variant where order of two 
lists matters would be interesting as well.

Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:38:19 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:38:19 +0100
Subject: Easter Eggs
In-Reply-To: <op.u8nuozc9x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
References: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<op.u8nuozc9x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <hm5ug9$3q3$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 03:04, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> Also try:
> import antigravity

Is this Py3 egg? My 2.6 doesn't seem to get it.

Regards,
mk



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Thu Feb 25 08:44:20 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:44:20 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.219.1267095523.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>
	<mailman.219.1267095523.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm5urp$hi5$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 25.02.2010 11:58, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>> You said it yourself: "simply make two or three functions and name
>> them appropiately" :-)
>>
>> When 2 methods of a class were to have the same name for doing
>> completely different things like you said, there's a design flaw to my
>> opinion.
>>
>> JM
> I wonder if I've just written that my opinion is flawed... It surely is,
> but that's not why I meant :-)

:D

Well, there might be cases when someone wants to do this. consider: 
(pseudocode - this is *not* python ;)

class Machines (Object):
	@classmethod
	def shutdown(cls, Machine, emergency=False):
	   try:
		if Machine is instanceof(Fileservers):
			if not emergency:
				Machine.unmount_raid_first()
				...
			Machine.halt()
		if Machine is instanceof(Router):
			if not emergency:
				cls.shutdown(Machine.attachedmachines)
			...
		...
	    finally:
		if emergency and Machine has powerswitch:
			Machine.powerswitch.Off()
	@classmethod
	def emergency(cls):
		for machine in cls.instances:
			cls.shutdown(machine, 1)

Other design patterns might me good too, but I like the idea of having 
emergency protocols in *one* place here. But without method overloading, 
there are many many nested 'if's.

One could say that the machines have to know how to shut down itself, 
but there might be dependencies they do not know about, and as said, it 
clutters the emergency protocol all over the modules.

One could define normal_shutdown() and emergency_shutdown(), but I do 
not like this eighter, and there are still many 'if's to seperate the types.

There are cases where *no* solution is perfect, and those are the cases 
where "2 methods of a class were to have the same name for doing 
completely different things" or other messy things like this are IMO 
*NOT* a design flaw.

Regards,
Michael


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 25 08:46:56 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:46:56 +0100
Subject: why (1, 2, 3)  > [1, 2, 3] is true?
In-Reply-To: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5v0g$67r$1@dough.gmane.org>

fat bold cyclop, 25.02.2010 14:00:
> I tired to google for comparison of tuple to list but i failed.
> 
> Could anyone explain it to me?

Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.

Note that this was fixed in Py3:

Python 3.1.1+ (r311:74480, Nov  2 2009, 15:45:00)
[GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> (1,2,3) > [1,2,3]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unorderable types: tuple() > list()


Stefan



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 25 08:46:56 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:46:56 +0100
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
References: <mailman.225.1267104624.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm5v0a$1fs$03$1@news.t-online.com>

mk wrote:

> I have stumbled upon this seemingly trivial problem: the answer is not
> there in http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming/, and googling does
> not return many references really (at least for me).
> 
> I have come up with this:
> 
> def qips_identical(q, oldq):

>      qips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), q)
>      oldqips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), oldq)

I don't think the above is a relevant part of the problem.

>      if len(qips) != len(oldqips):
>          return False
>      dif = set(qips) ^ set(oldqips)
>      if len(dif):
>          return False
>      return True
> 
> There's a number of complications here, depending on definition of
> 'lists with identical values', like whether the same value can be
> repeated different number of times in two lists, or whether the order of
> values matters.
> 
> In above example I assumed that the same values have to be repeated the
> same numbers of times in both lists and that order doesn't matter so
> long as the values are the same.

No you haven't. [1, 1, 0] and [1, 0, 0] are considered equal by your 
algorithm.

> I was wondering if there's a better / shorter / faster way to do this --
> not necessarily in the same variant, e.g. variant where order of two
> lists matters would be interesting as well.

sorted(left_list) == sorted(right_list)

should be good enough in most cases where you do care for repetitions but 
not order.

Peter


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:55:26 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:55:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
References: <mailman.225.1267104624.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <045a9d2d-3fd7-4aed-9fb3-83e7e70cc881@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>



mk wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have stumbled upon this seemingly trivial problem: the answer is not
> there in http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming/, and googling does
> not return many references really (at least for me).
>
> I have come up with this:
>
> def qips_identical(q, oldq):
>      qips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), q)
>      oldqips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), oldq)
>      if len(qips) != len(oldqips):
>          return False
>      dif = set(qips) ^ set(oldqips)
>      if len(dif):
>          return False
>      return True
>
> There's a number of complications here, depending on definition of
> 'lists with identical values', like whether the same value can be
> repeated different number of times in two lists, or whether the order of
> values matters.
>
> In above example I assumed that the same values have to be repeated the
> same numbers of times in both lists and that order doesn't matter so
> long as the values are the same.

Your code checks if the two lists have the same length and the same
elements, but not necessarily the same number of each elements. E.g.

    qips = [1, 1, 2]
    oldqips = [1, 2, 2]

will return True

If you want to check if each value has the same number of occurences,
you can do

    return sorted(qips) == sorted(oldqips)

assuming that all elements in the lists are comparable.

--
Arnaud


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Feb 25 08:58:16 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:58:16 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100225085816.fc9d4013.darcy@druid.net>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:26:18 -0800 (PST)
simn_stv <nanyaks at googlemail.com> wrote:
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day

That's nothing.  I ran a financial type app on Python that sometimes
hit 100,000 transactions an hour.  We kept looking for bottlenecks that
we could convert to C but never found any.  Our biggest problem was in
a network heavy element of the app and that was low level TCP/IP stuff
that rather than being Python's problem was something we used Python to
fix.

As others have pointed out, you will want some kind of enterprise
database that will do a lot of the heavy lifting.  I suggest
PostgreSQL.  It is the best open source database engine around.  That
will take the biggest load off your app.

There's lots of decisions to make in the days ahead but I think that
choosing Python as your base language is a good first one.

> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.

Scaleability and efficiency won't be your issues.  Speed of development
and clarity of code will be.  Python wins.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From fat.bold.cyclop at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:03:03 2010
From: fat.bold.cyclop at gmail.com (fat bold cyclop)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:03:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

> Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
valid.
But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?

Thanks again,
fbc


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:05:56 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:05:56 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.25.01.07.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.07.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hm6042$b2d$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:23:17 +0100, mk wrote:
>
>> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
>> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for them,
>> so they will not have to remember and type them in.
>
> So to break your application's security model, all somebody has to do is
> use their PC and they have full access to their account?
>
> Or get hold of the copy and paste buffer?
>
> Or the application's config files?

Yes. There's no way around this, short of forcing them to use hardware 
key, which is an overkill for this application.

>> So I have little in
>> the way of limitations of password length - even though in *some* cases
>> somebody might have to (or be ignorant enough) to retype the password
>> instead of pasting it in.

> Or your users might be sensible enough to not trust a role-your-own
> security model, and prefer to memorize the password than to trust that
> nobody will get access to their PC.

The app is not that critical, it's about quarterly subscription to the 
service, and the users will be able to reset the password anyway. If it 
were that critical, I'd use the hardware keys; if hardware keys are not 
used, once somebody gains an (unconstrained) access to the user's PC, 
there's not much that app developer can do. I've read somewhere a 
warning from PuTTY developer that even though the key is (normally) 
protected by the passphrase, losing even an encrypted key is quite 
likely to lead to its compromise. There's even some software for that on 
the net:

http://www.neophob.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/127-PuTTY-Private-Key-cracker.html


>> The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so the
>> main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords using
>> brute force.

> And why would they bother doing that when they can sniff the wire and get
> the passwords in plain text? You should assume your attackers are
> *smarter* than you, not trust them to be foolish.

I should have written HTTPS.

Regards,
mk



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 25 09:18:38 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:18:38 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <b3dfe5ad-9ca8-4cf7-9055-cdd15dc14dab@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<4b810953$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<b3dfe5ad-9ca8-4cf7-9055-cdd15dc14dab@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8686BE.5020907@sequans.com>

lallous wrote:
> I still prefer not to call at all, even if it was an empty function.
>
> Regards,
> Elias
>   

Is there any way we could convince you that there is no point caring 
about this ? Even if you were trying to optimize speed, it would still 
require proof that an empty function is part of the problem.
It sounds like someone stating "I prefer to write difficult-to-read 
code, because in 1978, code size used to matter".

JM


From chardster at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:21:56 2010
From: chardster at gmail.com (Richard Thomas)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:21:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d8891a71-f110-4c1b-b941-85b975b44a6d@v13g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 2:03?pm, fat bold cyclop <fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
>
> Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
> valid.
> But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
> Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?
>
> Thanks again,
> fbc

I believe in 2.x they are ordered by the names of their types but I
could be wrong.

1 < [] < '' < () < u''


From iainking at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:22:53 2010
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:22:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0f015e4c-bc37-4322-aa5c-e071e860efd3@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 2:03?pm, fat bold cyclop <fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
>
> Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
> valid.
> But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
> Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?
>
> Thanks again,
> fbc

I haven't looked in the source to check (and I'm almost 100% certain
that tuple > list is an implementation detail), but I have not found
any pair of tuple and list in which the list is treated as the
greater.  Possibly related: type(tuple()) is > type(list()). Or, to
let the interpreter tell you why (1,2,3) > [1,2,3]:

>>> tuple > list
True

Iain


From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Thu Feb 25 09:25:22 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:25:22 -0600
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
In-Reply-To: <hm5u13$2u0$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <hm5u13$2u0$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <eae285401002250625u6e5283c8s3bccf6e3da22783c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:30 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> There's a number of complications here, depending on definition of 'lists
> with identical values', like whether the same value can be repeated
> different number of times in two lists, or whether the order of values
> matters.
>

Order and repetitions matter:
list1 == list2

Repetition matters, order does not:
sorted(list1) == sorted(list2) # items must be comparable

Neither matters:
set(list1) == set(list2) # items must be hashable

--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com>
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 25 09:27:47 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:27:47 +0100
Subject: Walking lists
In-Reply-To: <e030ccd8-0bb4-4fc4-a614-3e62c698d4af@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<e030ccd8-0bb4-4fc4-a614-3e62c698d4af@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8688E3.9000909@sequans.com>

lallous wrote:
> Thank you all for the replies.
>
> The solution using Python 3's syntax look very intuitive.
>
> Thanks Tim, Arnaud for the idea (I am using 2.x)
>
> --
> Elias
> On Feb 25, 1:28 pm, lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hello
>>
>> I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
>> the code:
>>
>> L = (
>>   (1, 2, 3),
>>   (4,),
>>   (5,),
>>   (6, 7)
>> )
>>
>> for x in L:
>>     print x
>>
>> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
>>
>> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
>>   print first_element
>>   for x in the_rest:
>>     # now access the rest of the elements
>>
>> I know I can :
>> for x in L:
>>     first = x[0]
>>     rest = x[1:]
>>     ....
>> Probably that is not possible, but just asking.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Elias
>>     
Using slicing + list comprehension with python 2.x

for first, rest in [(e[0],e[1:]) for e in L]:
     print first
     print rest


1
(2, 3)
4
()
5
()
6
(7,)


But honestly, the code you provided is just fine.

JM


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:43:53 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:43:53 +0100
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
In-Reply-To: <045a9d2d-3fd7-4aed-9fb3-83e7e70cc881@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.225.1267104624.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<045a9d2d-3fd7-4aed-9fb3-83e7e70cc881@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm62b7$j49$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 14:55, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> Your code checks if the two lists have the same length and the same
> elements, but not necessarily the same number of each elements. E.g.
>
>      qips = [1, 1, 2]
>      oldqips = [1, 2, 2]
>
> will return True
>
> If you want to check if each value has the same number of occurences,
> you can do
>
>      return sorted(qips) == sorted(oldqips)
>
> assuming that all elements in the lists are comparable.

Thanks!

Regards,
mk



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 25 09:54:58 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:54:58 +0100
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
In-Reply-To: <480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm6303$mb9$1@dough.gmane.org>

fat bold cyclop, 25.02.2010 15:03:
>> Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
> Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
> valid.
> But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
> Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?

The result is predictable, it's just arbitrary in that it does not depend
on the values that you are comparing but only on their type.

Stefan



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:03:47 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:03:47 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 02:31, Paul Rubin wrote:
> It might be helpful if you could say what your application does, or
> anyway give an idea of what its actual security requirements are.
> Generating and emailing someone a random password is a fairly standard
> method for (e.g.) web forums to verify that the person has supplied a
> working email address, basically as a first level spam filter.  Your
> scheme is probably ok for that.  If you're doing something with more
> demanding security requirements, then as mentioned before, there is a
> whole lot of stuff you have to pay attention to, and focusing narrowly
> on password generation isn't that useful.

OK some data:

1. I'm going to probably use HTTPS (I meant HTTP over SSL, but wrote 
HTTP instead of being precise)

2. The app will have GUI and it will be locally installed; it's not 
going to be web app, it will just be online in the sense of downloading 
data frequently from the net.

3. I can't disclose the details on what the app will be doing, but it's 
not going to be terribly security-critical, medium-level at most - what 
happens in the app itself is not _directly_ related to money.

4. The app will be based on subscription model, costing $10-$20 per 
month. It's not really doing online banking or smth like that.

5. The worst thing that can happen when security of some account is 
compromised is that the user will have to reset the password, resending 
it to predefined email (I don't really see the way of organizing it in a 
different manner).

I'm thinking about optionally passphrase-securing the password saved in 
GUI. In that case 'diceware' approach would be helpful.

I certainly do not want to focus narrowly on password generation: the 
entire security model will have to be worked out, but the project didn't 
get to that stage yet, it's all still in planning stages. I just wanted 
to have this one part (password generation) researched before I get to 
other stages so I don't have to implement this later in haste and do 
smth wrong.

Regards,
mk



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 25 10:07:12 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:07:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-25, Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk> wrote:
> kj <no.email at please.post> writes:
>
>> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
>> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
>> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
>> it!
>
> No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
> (other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
> be nested.

if 0:

Seriously, that's what I generally do: mark the block of code,
indent it 1 level, add an if 0: at the top.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! What a COINCIDENCE!
                                  at               I'm an authorized "SNOOTS
                               visi.com            OF THE STARS" dealer!!


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 10:26:32 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:32 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
Message-ID: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>

Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to 
young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use 
an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.

The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with 
english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine 
identifiers and messages in the language of the kid.

In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
   COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the 
identifiers to the language of the user.

Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it 
would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.


Also, i would need a way to debug the program, so set up breakpoints, 
execute line by line, inspect variables, is there any API for this in 
embedded python?

Thank you,
   Luca


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 25 10:29:34 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:29:34 +0000
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/25/10 13:58, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:26:18 -0800 (PST)
<cut>
> Our biggest problem was in
> a network heavy element of the app and that was low level TCP/IP stuff
> that rather than being Python's problem was something we used Python to
> fix.
<cut>
Out off interest, could you elaborate on that?

Thanks

-- 
mph


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Thu Feb 25 10:39:27 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:27 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
	<hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm65jj$ip7$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 25.02.2010 16:07, schrieb Grant Edwards:
> On 2010-02-25, Paul Rudin<paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk>  wrote:
>> No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
>> (other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
>> be nested.
>
> if 0:
>
> Seriously, that's what I generally do: mark the block of code,
> indent it 1 level, add an if 0: at the top.
>

I really hate it when I see something like this in other's code.
The fact that my IDE (vim) still displays this like valid code ready to 
be executed can cause extreme frustration while trying to spot a bug.

This is almost as bad as "commenting out" (parts of) a for loop by 
adding a continue.

I once saw this in production code and wanted to kill the original 
developer, as commenting out the parts of the code with the continue (it 
was a *biiiig* for-loop) for debugging purposes actually would have 
*enabled* the code below, thus rendering the whole database useless.

Lucky me that I a) had backups b) set up a sandbox and c) actually saw 
this before it was too late.

Regards,
Michael


From affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com  Thu Feb 25 10:39:34 2010
From: affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com (Tracubik)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 15:39:34 GMT
Subject: round() function
Message-ID: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>

hi all, i've this sample code:

>>> n = 4.499
>>> str(round(n,2))
'4.5'

that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.

How can I solve this?

Thanks in advance
Nico


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 25 10:45:16 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:45:16 -0600
Subject: round() function
In-Reply-To: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4B869B0C.5060601@tim.thechases.com>

Tracubik wrote:
>>>> n = 4.499
>>>> str(round(n,2))
> '4.5'
> 
> that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
> Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.

Use string formatting:

   >>> "%0.2f" % round(4.499, 2)
   '4.50'

-tkc





From ivan.python1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:45:37 2010
From: ivan.python1 at gmail.com (mailing list)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:45:37 +0100
Subject: round() function
In-Reply-To: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4B869B21.4010808@gmail.com>

On 25.2.2010. 16:39, Tracubik wrote:
> hi all, i've this sample code:
>
>    
>>>> n = 4.499
>>>> str(round(n,2))
>>>>          
> '4.5'
>
> that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
> Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.
>
> How can I solve this?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Nico
>    
You may wanna use string formating, e.g.: print "%.2f" % 4.5


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 25 10:46:18 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:46:18 +0100
Subject: round() function
In-Reply-To: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <hm660a$2oe$1@dough.gmane.org>

Tracubik, 25.02.2010 16:39:
> hi all, i've this sample code:
> 
>>>> n = 4.499
>>>> str(round(n,2))
> '4.5'
> 
> that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
> Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.
> 
> How can I solve this?

Format the number as a string:

    print("%.2f" % round(n,2))

Stefan



From jlconlin at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:48:44 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of string?
Message-ID: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts
them into a dictionary, i.e.

'(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'

Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
float objects instead of strings?

Thanks,
Jeremy


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Thu Feb 25 10:51:40 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:51:40 +0100
Subject: round() function
In-Reply-To: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <hm66ah$iue$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 25.02.2010 16:39, schrieb Tracubik:
> hi all, i've this sample code:
>
>>>> n = 4.499
>>>> str(round(n,2))
> '4.5'
>
> that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
> Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.
>
> How can I solve this?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Nico

This has nothing to do with round().
round() returns a float, and float(4.50) is 4.5.

You can *print* it as 4.50 using format strings, but the float will 
always be 4.5


 >>> n = 4.499
 >>> x=round(n,2)
 >>> x
4.5
 >>> print "%.2f" % x
4.50
 >>> s="%.2f" % round(n,2)
 >>> s
'4.50'
 >>>


From nicola.larosa at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:51:51 2010
From: nicola.larosa at gmail.com (Nicola Larosa (tekNico))
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:51:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Recommended "new" way for config files
References: <mailman.597.1262880612.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <28c20bf9-2522-442d-a6b9-82a68f267dd5@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Peter wrote:
> There seems to be several strategies to enhance the old ini-style config
> files with real python code
> [...]
> Is there a strategy that should be prefered for new projects ?

5) Use ConfigObj <http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/configobj.html>,
by Michael Foord and yours truly. It uses an extension of the ini-
style config format. Sorry for the multiple brackets, my fault. :-)

--
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/

Ci sono paesi in cui un gesto violento se compiuto da un uomo su una
don-
na ? punito pi? severamente: si chiama uguaglianza sostanziale,
compensa
la disuguaglianza di partenza. [...] Se vince la cultura dei
"vincenti"
le donne perderanno. Non fanno la guerra, in genere. ? una perdita di
tempo: hanno altro da fare. - Concita De Gregorio, Novembre 2009


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Feb 25 10:58:14 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:58:14 -0500
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm66op$t5u$1@speranza.aioe.org>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:

> You're right that ref counting in many implementations is more
> deterministic than other common forms of garbage collection; IMO,
> Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
> currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec--or at least
> guaranteeing that when a function returns, any otherwise unreferenced
> locals are immediately collected.

That would be nice.  The argument against it is that it would make 
implementations like Jython very difficult to make, if it didn't rule them 
out altogether.

	Mel.




From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:11:09 2010
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:11:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A more pythonish code
References: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9a564658-8b6b-4510-ba1f-ac259c7d8700@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>



prasad_chand wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I use python to do simple math problems as a hobby.
>
> I have made a program that finds the number of divisors(factors) of a
> given number. I am hoping to improve my language skills, specifically
> I would like to re-write the function "prime_factors" more gracefully.
> While the program works right, I am hoping that I could get some input
> on how to write better python code. I have attached the code below.
>
>
> def prime_factors(n):
>     """
>     Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add (4+1)
> (1+1) = 10)
>
>     Updates a global dictionary(my_dict) with prime numbers and number
> of occurances. In the case of 48 {2:4,3:1}
>
>     """
>     tmp_n = n
>
>     while True:
>
>         if tmp_n == 1:
>             break
>
>         tmp_check = tmp_n
>
>         for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
>             if tmp_n % x == 0:
>                 add_to_dict(x)
>                 tmp_n /= x
>                 break
>
>         if tmp_check == tmp_n: #number is prime...so just to add to
> dict
>             add_to_dict(tmp_n)
>             break
>
>
> def add_one(x):
>     return x+1
>
>
> def mul(x,y):
>     return x * y
>
> def add_to_dict(p_num):
>     if my_dict.has_key(p_num):
>         my_dict[p_num] += 1
>     else:
>         my_dict[p_num] = 1
>
>
> my_dict = {}
>
>
> prime_factors(135)
> l = map(add_one,my_dict.values())
> print reduce(mul, l, 1)
>
>
> Thanks for your time.

I did a quick refactoring for Python 3.1 (should mostly work in older
versions too):

from math import ceil, sqrt
from functools import reduce
from collections import defaultdict
from operator import mul

def prime_factors(n):
    """
    Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add
(4+1)
    (1+1) = 10)
    """
    factors = defaultdict(int)
    while n != 1:
        for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(n)) + 1)):
            if n % x == 0:
                factors[x] += 1
                n /= x
                break
        else:
            #number is prime...so just to add to dict
            factors[int(n)] += 1
            break
    return factors

factors = prime_factors(135)
exponents = [x+1 for x in factors.values()]
print(reduce(mul, exponents, 1))



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 25 11:16:58 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:16:58 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm5urp$hi5$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>
	<mailman.219.1267095523.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm5urp$hi5$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4b86a265$0$695$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Michael Rudolf a ?crit :
(snip)
> (pseudocode - this is *not* python ;)
> 
> class Machines (Object):
>     @classmethod
>     def shutdown(cls, Machine, emergency=False):
>        try:
>         if Machine is instanceof(Fileservers):


>             if not emergency:
>                 Machine.unmount_raid_first()
>                 ...
>             Machine.halt()
>         if Machine is instanceof(Router):
>             if not emergency:
>                 cls.shutdown(Machine.attachedmachines)
>             ...
>         ...
>         finally:
>         if emergency and Machine has powerswitch:
>             Machine.powerswitch.Off()
>     @classmethod
>     def emergency(cls):
>         for machine in cls.instances:
>             cls.shutdown(machine, 1)
> 

> One could say that the machines have to know how to shut down itself, 

Indeed !-)

> but there might be dependencies they do not know about,

Then it's the "Machines" (or a "MachineShutdownProtocol" or whatever) 
responsability to manage correct operation order, and you need an API to 
allow communication between the Machine objects and the WhateverItsName 
object in charge of monitoring the process.

All this if you do care about correct OO design, of course - as far as 
I'm concerned, practicallity beats purity !-)

> and as said, it 
> clutters the emergency protocol all over the modules.

Tradeoff, tradeoff. The above won't work for a "plug&play" system.

> There are cases where *no* solution is perfect,

There is always at least one "less worse" solution, depending on the 
concrete use case.


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Feb 25 11:18:14 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:18:14 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <20100225111814.c32887b9.darcy@druid.net>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:29:34 +0000
"Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org> wrote:
> On 02/25/10 13:58, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:26:18 -0800 (PST)
> <cut>
> > Our biggest problem was in
> > a network heavy element of the app and that was low level TCP/IP stuff
> > that rather than being Python's problem was something we used Python to
> > fix.
> <cut>
> Out off interest, could you elaborate on that?

Somewhat - there is an NDA so I can't give exact details.  It was
crucial to our app that we sync up databases in Canada and the US (later
Britain, Europe and Japan) in real time with those transactions.  Our
problem was that even though our two server systems were on the
backbone, indeed with the same major carrier, we could not keep them in
sync.  We were taking way to long to transact an update across the
network.

The problem had to do with the way TCP/IP works, especially closer to
the core.  Our provider was collecting data and sending it only after
filling a buffer or after a timeout.  The timeout was short so it
wouldn't normally be noticed and in most cases (web pages e.g.) the
connection is opened, data is pushed and the connection is closed so
the buffer is flushed immediately.  Our patterns were different so we
were hitting the timeout on every single transaction and there was no
way we would have been able to keep up.

Our first crack at fixing this was to simply add garbage to the packet
we were sending.  Making the packets an order of magnitude bigger sped
up the proccessing dramatically.  That wasn't a very clean solution
though so we looked for a better way.

That better way turned out to asynchronous update transactions.  All we
did was keep feeding updates to the remote site and forget about ACKS.
We then had a second process which handled ACKS and tracked which
packets had been properly transferred.  The system had IDs on each
update and retries happened if ACKS didn't happen soon enough.
Naturally we ignored ACKS that we had already processed.

All of the above (and much more complexity not even discussed here) was
handled by Python code and database manipulation.  There were a few
bumps along the way but overall it worked fine.  If we were using C or
even assembler we would not have sped up anything and the solution we
came up with would have been horrendous to code.  As it was I and my
chief programmer locked ourselves in the boardroom and had a working
solution before the day was out.

Python wins again.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From electriclightheads at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:22:22 2010
From: electriclightheads at gmail.com ('2+)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:22:22 +0900
Subject: hs.py = run an exec and pipe back the result as a member of a list
Message-ID: <1078018b1002250822y2998e500r85f52646fa1fd190@mail.gmail.com>

did this for hascillator01 that i ghc-ed from hascillator01.hs into ./

import popen2

wave = []
for frame in range(890, 1010):
wave.append(int(popen2.Popen3('./hascillator01 ' +
str(frame)).fromchild.readline()))
print wave

hascillator01 takes int and returns another int
so yes this became a [ints] and that is what i expected
but also yes it is so slow
any cooler way to do it?
now am reading the suprocess's doc .. but a bit hard to get it

-- 
SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
is podcasting:
http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml


From electriclightheads at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:24:33 2010
From: electriclightheads at gmail.com ('2+)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:24:33 +0900
Subject: hs.py = run an exec and pipe back the result as a member of a 
	list
In-Reply-To: <1078018b1002250822y2998e500r85f52646fa1fd190@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1078018b1002250822y2998e500r85f52646fa1fd190@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1078018b1002250824x26fe456cg9588e1d7b64386e7@mail.gmail.com>

oops the code was wrong .. sorry

import popen2

wave = []
for frame in range(890, 1010):
    wave.append(int(popen2.Popen3('./hascillator01 ' +
str(frame)).fromchild.readline()))
print wave

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 1:22 AM, '2+ <electriclightheads at gmail.com> wrote:
> did this for hascillator01 that i ghc-ed from hascillator01.hs into ./
>
> import popen2
>
> wave = []
> for frame in range(890, 1010):
> wave.append(int(popen2.Popen3('./hascillator01 ' +
> str(frame)).fromchild.readline()))
> print wave
>
> hascillator01 takes int and returns another int
> so yes this became a [ints] and that is what i expected
> but also yes it is so slow
> any cooler way to do it?
> now am reading the suprocess's doc .. but a bit hard to get it
>
> --
> SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
> is podcasting:
> http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
>



-- 
SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
is podcasting:
http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 11:31:32 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 08:31:32 -0800
Subject: Easter Eggs
References: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<op.u8nuozc9x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
	<mailman.226.1267105118.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm68l4$q0s$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.226.1267105118.4577.python-list at python.org>,
mk  <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2010-02-25 03:04, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>>
>> Also try:
>> import antigravity
>
>Is this Py3 egg? My 2.6 doesn't seem to get it.

Maybe 2.7 will have it; 3.0.1 does.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:32:20 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:32:20 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm68mm$du7$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 09:03 AM, mk wrote:

> 2. The app will have GUI and it will be locally installed; it's not
> going to be web app, it will just be online in the sense of downloading
> data frequently from the net.

If you are storing the password instead of making your user remember it, most 
platforms have some kind of keychain secure password storage. I recommend 
reading up on the APIs available on your targeted platforms.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From skylarking11 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:33:31 2010
From: skylarking11 at gmail.com (Sky Larking)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:33:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with ftplib uploading to an FTP server
References: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.193.1267044970.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<79927f7d-d186-46f1-ab58-94a8d5f973fc@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.212.1267078216.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b518e48-655e-43a6-ac8c-dd473cdcba22@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 1:10?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:21:58 -0800 (PST), Sky Larking
> <skylarkin... at gmail.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > For instance I just ran the script and os.rename() renamed it to:
>
> > TestMachine.local @ 02-24-2010 2020.txt
>
> > in that .txt file it reads:
>
> > Asset: TestMachine.local Checking in from IP#: xx.xxx.xx.xxx
>
> > This is what I want, but the FTP piece doesn't seem to work...
>
> ? ? ? ? But since you haven't CLOSED the file before invoking the FTP
> operation, the contents are probably in a write buffer that hasn't been
> flushed. Renaming a file only changes the directory entry -- doesn't do
> anything for what may or may not be in the file.
>
> ? ? ? ? After the program exits, the file get closed, which means the
> buffers are flushed.
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

I see my mistake now, I closed the file ...then did the upload ... and
the data was there --
thanks for the help


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 11:33:59 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 08:33:59 -0800
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm68pn$7nb$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728 at i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
simn_stv  <nanyaks at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
>estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
>(hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
>or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
>gets pretty busy...

Remember that YouTube runs on Python.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From hseylan at dr.com  Thu Feb 25 11:35:40 2010
From: hseylan at dr.com (huseyin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:35:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CGI File Upload Problem with Python 3.1 on IIS 7
Message-ID: <05322717-d98b-4da4-8b3a-333b42f19f89@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to upload files through cgi script written in python 3.1
on a Windows IIS 7 server.
The server time out when I write in usual way that is

form=cgi.cgi.FieldStorage()
fileitem = form['filename']
fn = os.path.basename(fileitem.filename)
open('/tmp/' + fn, 'wb').write(fileitem.file.read())

I think there is a problem with stdin, I checked it with:

s=sys.stdin.buffer.read(1024)
print (s)

I prints the first 1024 bytes of the input stream. But when I write

s=1
while s:
     s=sys.stdin.buffer.read(1024)
     print (s)

the server stops responding. I think there is a problem that Python
cannot understand end of input stream.

I searched this on the net but could not find a solution.

Thanks


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 25 11:39:11 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
	<hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm65jj$ip7$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm693f$3ev$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-25, Michael Rudolf <spamfresser at ch3ka.de> wrote:
> Am 25.02.2010 16:07, schrieb Grant Edwards:
>> On 2010-02-25, Paul Rudin<paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk>  wrote:
>>> No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
>>> (other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
>>> be nested.
>>
>> if 0:
>>
>> Seriously, that's what I generally do: mark the block of code,
>> indent it 1 level, add an if 0: at the top.
>
> I really hate it when I see something like this in other's
> code. 

The only time you'll see that in my code is if you're watching
over my shoulder as I troublshoot something.

> The fact that my IDE (vim) still displays this like valid code
> ready to be executed can cause extreme frustration while
> trying to spot a bug.

Nobody in their right mind _leaves_ "commented out" code like
that (or other commenting mechanisms) in a program after
they're done with whatever little experiment they were
performing.

I know people who will re-write a block of code and leave the
old code there, but comment it out, along with the date and
their name, and other such nonsense.  I hate that. Keeping
track of what _used_ to be there and who changed what when is
the job of the version control system.  Trying to keep the
edit-history of a file in-line as comments just makes the code
hard to read and maintain.

> This is almost as bad as "commenting out" (parts of) a for
> loop by adding a continue.

IMO, any sort of "commented out" code left in a program is a
big mistake.  If the code is soething that does need to stay
for optional use, then it needs to be properly integrated along
with logic to control when it's used.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Four thousand
                                  at               different MAGNATES, MOGULS
                               visi.com            & NABOBS are romping in my
                                                   gothic solarium!!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 11:41:01 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 16:41:01 GMT
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of
	string?
References: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b86a81d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800, Jeremy wrote:

> I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts them
> into a dictionary, i.e.
> 
> '(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'
> 
> Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
> float objects instead of strings?

No. Just convert the match with int() or float() before storing it in the 
dictionary. That is, instead of:

d[key] = match

use

d[key] = float(match)

or similar.

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 11:45:58 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 16:45:58 GMT
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4b86a946$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:32 +0100, Luca wrote:

> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to
> young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use
> an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
> 
> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine
> identifiers and messages in the language of the kid.

>>> len("hello")
5
>>> length = len
>>> length("hello")
5

However, you can't rename statements such as for, while, if and similar, 
nor can you rename error messages. There might be an internationalised 
version of Python in the language the children speak. Have you tried 
googling?


> Also, i would need a way to debug the program, so set up breakpoints,
> execute line by line, inspect variables, is there any API for this in
> embedded python?

Have you tried the Python debugger?

import pdb



-- 
Steven


From lars at gustaebel.de  Thu Feb 25 11:51:17 2010
From: lars at gustaebel.de (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gust=E4bel?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:51:17 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <hm45ne$rnr$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
	<hm45ne$rnr$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20100225165117.GA30865@axis.g33x.de>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 04:29:18PM -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/24/2010 5:14 AM, Lars Gust?bel wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
>>> I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
>>> TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
>>> search while they have a doc string:
>>
>> But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class has
>> three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
>> compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
>> classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
>> method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
>> decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
>> does many more other high-level things as well.
>
> By current standards, the three private methods should be prefixed with  
> '_' to indicate their private status. Could they be changed to head off  
> such questions?

I hope that this is not necessary. There are quite a few TarFile methods
more that are not documented and don't start with an underscore. I don't think
renaming all these is a good idea.

The original intention behind these methods was that I wanted a lower level API for
TarFile that can be used for subclassing but stays as stable as possible at the
same time. Methods starting with underscores look very much like you can't make
use of them. I don't know if this was a particularly good idea back then and I
don't know how popular it is to subclass the TarFile class to customize it, but
we cannot simply change the methods' names at this point if we don't want to
break other people's code. In other words, the cure sounds worse than the
disease in my opinion.

-- 
Lars Gust?bel
lars at gustaebel.de

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth.
(Umberto Eco)


From jlconlin at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 12:00:07 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:00:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of 
	string?
References: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b86a81d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d3328870-7a69-4ef6-bbe2-8bad2e9fde2c@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 9:41?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> > I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts them
> > into a dictionary, i.e.
>
> > '(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'
>
> > Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
> > float objects instead of strings?
>
> No. Just convert the match with int() or float() before storing it in the
> dictionary. That is, instead of:
>
> d[key] = match
>
> use
>
> d[key] = float(match)
>
> or similar.

I was afraid that was the only option.  Oh well, thought I'd ask
anyway.  Thanks for your help.
Jeremy


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Thu Feb 25 12:08:28 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:08:28 +0100
Subject: Pedantic pickling error after reload?
Message-ID: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net>

After (intended/controlled) reload or similar action on a 
module/class the pickle/cPickle.dump raises errors like

pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle <class 'somemodule.SomeClass'>: 
it's not the same object as somemodule.SomeClass


Cause in pickle.py (and cPickle) is a line
"if klass is not obj:"

Shouldn't it be enough to have  "if klass.__name__ != 
obj.__name__:" there?
=> a bug report/feature request?

Classes can change face anyway during pickled state, why should a 
over-pedantic reaction break things here during runtime?
(So far I'd need to walk the object tree in all facets and save 
against inf loops like pickle himself and re-class things .. )




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 12:15:50 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 17:15:50 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.07.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.234.1267106774.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b86b045$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:05:56 +0100, mk wrote:

> On 2010-02-25 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:23:17 +0100, mk wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
>>> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for
>>> them, so they will not have to remember and type them in.
>>
>> So to break your application's security model, all somebody has to do
>> is use their PC and they have full access to their account?
>>
>> Or get hold of the copy and paste buffer?
>>
>> Or the application's config files?
> 
> Yes. There's no way around this, short of forcing them to use hardware
> key, which is an overkill for this application.

Of course there is. Why don't you find out how applications with real 
security work, instead of making up amateur insecure schemes or worrying 
about insignificant deviations from uniformity in your password generator?

You can't get hold of a user's login password in Linux or Windows by 
grabbing the copy-and-paste buffer, or by looking in the password file. 
No hardware key required.

Today, you say that your application only needs weak security because the 
value of the accounts are low. (If they're that low, why do you need a 
password at all?) But tomorrow, your application will be bigger, better, 
new and improved, with remote logins over the Internet and much more 
value -- and it will still be using the same crappy weak security that it 
has now, I guarantee it.

If you are storing the password, instead of a hash, you fail.

If you are storing a hash without a salt, you fail.

Yes, an awful lot of software do these things. They shouldn't, even for 
supposed "low value passwords".

http://blog.moertel.com/articles/2006/12/15/never-store-passwords-in-a-database

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/09/youre-probably-storing-passwords-incorrectly.html


>> Or your users might be sensible enough to not trust a role-your-own
>> security model, and prefer to memorize the password than to trust that
>> nobody will get access to their PC.
> 
> The app is not that critical, it's about quarterly subscription to the
> service, and the users will be able to reset the password anyway.

And when users realise that they don't need to buy a subscription, they 
just need to steal a password from somebody else, what does that do to 
your business model?




-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 12:18:09 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 17:18:09 GMT
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
References: <mailman.225.1267104624.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b86b0d1$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:30:12 +0100, mk wrote:

> In above example I assumed that the same values have to be repeated the
> same numbers of times in both lists and that order doesn't matter so
> long as the values are the same.

sorted(list1) == sorted(list2)

> I was wondering if there's a better / shorter / faster way to do this --
> not necessarily in the same variant, e.g. variant where order of two
> lists matters would be interesting as well.

list1 == list2




-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 12:20:44 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 17:20:44 GMT
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of 
	string?
References: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b86a81d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<d3328870-7a69-4ef6-bbe2-8bad2e9fde2c@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b86b16b$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:00:07 -0800, Jeremy wrote:

> On Feb 25, 9:41?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
>> > I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts
>> > them into a dictionary, i.e.
>>
>> > '(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'
>>
>> > Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
>> > float objects instead of strings?
>>
>> No. Just convert the match with int() or float() before storing it in
>> the dictionary. That is, instead of:
>>
>> d[key] = match
>>
>> use
>>
>> d[key] = float(match)
>>
>> or similar.
> 
> I was afraid that was the only option.  Oh well, thought I'd ask anyway.


Why "afraid"? What's the problem with calling int or float on the match?




-- 
Steven


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 12:42:43 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:42:43 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <4b86a946$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4b86a946$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7unr4kFe8jU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> However, you can't rename statements such as for, while, if and similar, 
> nor can you rename error messages. There might be an internationalised 
> version of Python in the language the children speak. Have you tried 
> googling?

Yeah, this is what i am talking about. It seems that keywords (if, 
while, for, etc) cannot be renamed at all. Not easily at least without 
recompiling Python from source. Same thing with error messages.

What i need is not an internationalized version of python in a specific 
language... but a simple way to let the teacher do it by 
himself/herself. Since python will be embedded in my application i could 
also load this via a text-file or XML file... but it seems that no API 
has been made available to solve this problem.

Logo is the only language i know that lets the user do this in a very 
simple way, that's why i brought it as example of what i need. In Logo 
every identifier can be changed with a simple startup file and every 
error message can be personalized by editing a text file. This allows 
any user/parent/teacher to personalize the language for their kids. What 
i need is an API that lets my application do something similar to the 
python library. Unfortunately it seems that there is no easy way to do it.

> Have you tried the Python debugger?
> 
> import pdb


Didn't know it, thank you. Now i need to understand if this PDB module 
can be used from the application that is embedding pythong (so that i 
can build a simple IDE to set breakpoints, show the current 
execution-line, skip it, etc.

Thanx,
   Luca


From jjposner at optimum.net  Thu Feb 25 12:57:14 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:57:14 -0500
Subject: A more pythonish code
In-Reply-To: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B86B9FA.7010609@optimum.net>

On 2/25/2010 7:23 AM, prasad_chand wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I use python to do simple math problems as a hobby.
>
> I have made a program that finds the number of divisors(factors) of a
> given number. I am hoping to improve my language skills, specifically
> I would like to re-write the function "prime_factors" more gracefully.
> While the program works right, I am hoping that I could get some input
> on how to write better python code. I have attached the code below.
>
>
> def prime_factors(n):
>      """
>      Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add (4+1)
> (1+1) = 10)
>
>      Updates a global dictionary(my_dict) with prime numbers and number
> of occurances. In the case of 48 {2:4,3:1}
>
>      """
>      tmp_n = n

A name meaning "temporary value of n" doesn't suggest how it's being 
used in the algorithm. In my implementation (see below), I used the name 
"last_result", which is (a little bit) better.
>
>      while True:
>
>          if tmp_n == 1:
>              break
>
>          tmp_check = tmp_n
>
>          for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
>              if tmp_n % x == 0:
>                  add_to_dict(x)

This function changes the value of a global variable, *my_dict*. Using 
global variables is frowned upon. In this case, it would be much better 
to have the dictionary be local to the *prime_factor* function. After 
you've broken out of the *while* loop, just execute "return my_dict".

>                  tmp_n /= x
>                  break
>
>          if tmp_check == tmp_n: #number is prime...so just to add to
> dict
>              add_to_dict(tmp_n)
>              break

The only reason that the *tmp_check* variable exists is to test whether 
you fell out of the *for* loop without finding any divisors for *tmp_n*. 
A cleaner approach is to use the optional *else* clause of the *for* 
loop, which is executed only if you didn't *break* out of the loop:

     for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
         if tmp_n % x == 0:
             add_to_dict(x)
             tmp_n /= x
             break
     else:
         # tmp_n is prime...so just to add to dict
         add_to_dict(tmp_n)
         break


>
>
> def add_one(x):
>      return x+1
>
>
> def mul(x,y):
>      return x * y
>
> def add_to_dict(p_num):
>      if my_dict.has_key(p_num):
>          my_dict[p_num] += 1
>      else:
>          my_dict[p_num] = 1
>

As poster pruebauno pointed out, using a collections.defaultdict 
eliminates the need for the *add_to_dict* function.

>
> my_dict = {}
>
>
> prime_factors(135)
> l = map(add_one,my_dict.values())
> print reduce(mul, l, 1)

This may seem trivial, but ... don't use the single-character lowercase 
"l" as a variable. It looks too much like the digit "1" -- in some 
fonts, it looks identical!

FWIW, here's my implementation. It's much slower, because it doesn't use 
the square root optimization. It uses another optimization: when a prime 
factor is located, *all* of its occurrences are factored out at the same 
time.

#--------------------------------
from collections import defaultdict

def prime_factors(n):
     """Return the prime factors of the given number (>= 2)"""
     if n < 2:
         print "arg must be >= 2"
         return

     last_result = n
     factors = defaultdict(int)
     next_divisor = 2

     while True:
         while last_result % next_divisor == 0:
             factors[next_divisor] += 1
             last_result /= next_divisor
             if last_result == 1:
                 return factors
         next_divisor += 1
#--------------------------------


HTH,
John


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 25 13:22:40 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:22:40 +0000
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B86BFF0.60004@dcuktec.org>

On 02/25/10 16:18, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
<cut working around ISP's with braindead network configurations>
Very interesting, I had a similar kind of problem (a network balancer 
that doesn't balance small tcp packages too well) and solved it by 
wrapping the TCP package in UDP. UDP was treated differently, although 
in overall switch and router manager it has a lower priority compared to 
other tcp packages, in normal usage it was faster.

Probably because UDP has less things to inspect and by this can be 
processed faster by all the network equipment in between, but to be 
honest it worked for me and the client wasn't interested in academic 
explanations and since this was a working solution I didn't investigated 
it any further.

Oh and a big thank you for PyGreSQL,! It has proven to be an extremely 
useful module for me (especially since I used to hop a lot between 
different unixes and Windows).
-- 
mph


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 25 13:27:11 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:27:11 -0500
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
In-Reply-To: <d8891a71-f110-4c1b-b941-85b975b44a6d@v13g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>	<480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<d8891a71-f110-4c1b-b941-85b975b44a6d@v13g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm6fe0$9nl$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/25/2010 9:21 AM, Richard Thomas wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2:03 pm, fat bold cyclop<fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
>>
>> Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
>> valid.
>> But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
>> Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?

In general, no. The result is arbitrary, with the constraint of being 
consistent within a particular run.

>> Thanks again,
>> fbc
>
> I believe in 2.x they are ordered by the names of their types but I
> could be wrong.

This is currently true in *CPython* 2.x, but that is an implementation 
artifact that has changed and might be different with other implementations.

Terry Jan Reedy





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 25 13:31:47 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:31:47 -0500
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <20100225165117.GA30865@axis.g33x.de>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>	<hm45ne$rnr$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<20100225165117.GA30865@axis.g33x.de>
Message-ID: <hm6fmk$aqr$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/25/2010 11:51 AM, Lars Gust?bel wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 04:29:18PM -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 2/24/2010 5:14 AM, Lars Gust?bel wrote:
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
>>>> I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
>>>> TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
>>>> search while they have a doc string:
>>>
>>> But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class has
>>> three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
>>> compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
>>> classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
>>> method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
>>> decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
>>> does many more other high-level things as well.
>>
>> By current standards, the three private methods should be prefixed with
>> '_' to indicate their private status. Could they be changed to head off
>> such questions?
>
> I hope that this is not necessary. There are quite a few TarFile methods
> more that are not documented and don't start with an underscore. I don't think
> renaming all these is a good idea.
>
> The original intention behind these methods was that I wanted a lower level API for
> TarFile that can be used for subclassing but stays as stable as possible at the
> same time.

If you intended for the *names* (if not the base methods themselves) to 
be part of the public interface, then no underscores is appropriate. It 
is a tough in-between case. I guess good docs, including doc stings, is 
the best you can do to make the situation clear.

tjr




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb 25 13:38:57 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:57 -0800
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002251038v1a6b0864q87ee7e354766cfee@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca <lucat at despammed.com> wrote:
> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young
> kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an
> embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
>
> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine identifiers
> and messages in the language of the kid.
>
> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
> ?COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
> identifiers to the language of the user.
>
> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.

It can certainly be done (c.f. ChinesePython -
http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/english.html),
but I know of no framework that simplifies the task. Essentially, you
just have to manually modify Python's parser by swapping out the
english for the other language (and if you want to mess with the basic
types' names, their name definitions somewhere else too). There also
might be encoding issues to deal with.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de  Thu Feb 25 13:42:13 2010
From: gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de (Gereon Kaiping)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:42:13 +0100
Subject: Artificial Neural Networks recommendation wanted
In-Reply-To: <cde40d7f-30c8-4d8f-bcaa-904838dd50e0@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.157.1267015802.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<cde40d7f-30c8-4d8f-bcaa-904838dd50e0@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B86C485.80608@yahoo.de>

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Hash: SHA1

Hi,

>> - - PyNN (just a builder, requires external simulator) ?http://neuralensemble.org/trac/PyNN/
>> - - Con-x (part of pyro) ?http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=Conx
>> - - PyNeurGen (includes genetic algorithms) ?http://pyneurgen.sourceforge.net/
>> - - ffnet (only fast forward) ?http://ffnet.sourceforge.net/
>> - - brian (spiking networks) ?http://www.briansimulator.org/
>> - - PyBrain (machine learning) ?http://pybrain.org/

Thanks for the answers:

> Fann <http://leenissen.dk/fann/> has python bindings.
I saw it, but forgot to include it in my listing.

> PyNN and Brian are intended more for biologically-realistic neural
> networks (for some value of realistic), aka neuronal networks, so I
> guess you can rule them out (similar tools that you might come across
> are NEST, NEURON, PCSIM).
Yes, I thought so. (I might keep them in mind anyway, if I get to a more
biologically approach someday, just like ffnet, which doesn't support
recurrent networks but might be good in what it does.)

Fann seems to be inable to simulate recurrent networks, too. (There are
some older discussions, but I found no trace of a successful
implementation.)

So my main interest would be Con-x, PyNeurGen and PyBrain. Can you tell
me anything about these modules or point me to where to find more
information?

Greetings,
Gereon
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From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Feb 25 13:59:39 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:59:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Walking lists
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.222.1267102978.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <369d77c3-99c5-418f-8736-cae6e371088f@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 7:02?am, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Python 3 introduced a variable tuple assignment which I
> suspect[*] would work in this context:
>
> ? ?for first, *rest in L: # note the asterisk
> ? ? ?print first
> ? ? ?for x in rest:
> ? ? ? ?do_stuff(x)
>
> [*] not having py3 on this machine, I can't readily verify this.

Seems fine under 3.1. Cool.

>>> L = ((1,2,3),
     (4,),
     (5,),
     (6,7)
     )
>>> for first, *rest in L:
	print('first',first,end=' ')
	print('rest',rest)

first 1 rest [2, 3]
first 4 rest []
first 5 rest []
first 6 rest [7]


From brixomatic at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 25 14:08:43 2010
From: brixomatic at yahoo.com (Wanja Gayk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:08:43 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <op.u8o54ta9y5e8ok@laptopwanja>

Am 25.02.2010, 02:05 Uhr, schrieb Lawrence D'Oliveiro  
<ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand>:

> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>
>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>
> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things  
> like
>
>     contents = open(filename, "r").read()
>
> and know the file object will be immediately closed after its contents  
> are returned.

Which has nothing to do with reference counting in general.
This is what JVMs can do aswell.
Just have a look at the behaviour of Weak- and SoftReferences to get an  
idea what goes on behind the scenes.
For example:
int x = new Point(10,20).getX();
The point object will be collectable as soon as getX() returned - even  
better: todays JIT compilers will inline the call and not even allocate  
the object, if it's allocation is free of side effects.
What you write above is something entirely different: it's just a  
mechanism to release file handles, syntactic sugar for what you have in  
java when you close a stream in a finally-block.

If you like to know a litle more about reference counting, feel free to  
study the following paper on a very sophistcated reference counting GC for  
the JVM by Levanoni and Petrank:
http://reference.kfupm.edu.sa/content/e/o/e___an_on_the_fly_reference_counting_gar_61636.pdf
The paper talks about some ofthe problems that occur with reference  
counting.
Their algorithm uses some nice techniques to avoid thread contention (the  
reference-counter updates must be atomic, thus require that all "mutators"  
are stopped) and other problems connected to "referece counting" in  
general, such as slow writes (-> cache coherence, etc. read-only access is  
faster).
What the paper doesn't tell is how they deal with fragmented heap, so I  
wouldn't trust that this Refcount-GC will have a stable performance over a  
long period of time (we're talking apps like Ebay, which run 24/7 for  
months if not years).
Their algorithm may have a "comparable" speed to the (meanwhile) old  
implementation the JVM's GC, but it still needs the original JVM clean up  
what it leaves behind(it forgets some references) - maybe that's also how  
they deal with a fragmeted heap, as java uses a compacting collector.
So, yes, it can be fast, or let's say responsive, but in general it's not.  
And when it is up to speed you get stability issues at least I have not  
heard anything different yet.

To have some numbers:
Benchmark Original RC
Total 2582.2 2676.0
compress 720.8 723.3
db 374.0 383.7
jack 264.6 299.7
javac 225.0 235.2
jess 181.7 209.7
mpegaudio 607.1 610.6

As you see: SUN's GC is faster. Even though: what those folks have done is  
impressive (but buggy).

> It also means I don?t have to predefine how much memory my program will  
> use.

Which again has nothing to do with GC. This has been a design decision.
In fact todays JVM dynamically allocate memory and gro their heaps.
A quick look at the command line options will make that clear:
java -X
  [...]
    -Xms<size>        set initial Java heap size
    -Xmx<size>        set maximum Java heap size

Todays GC run as folows, they initialize the heap size at what you giove  
them in your Xmx-Setting (or use the default).
When the heap is filled up to that initial size, they do a full GC and if  
that won't free enough memory, they will allocate some more.
This is done until the upper limit from -Xmx is hit, when the program  
requires more than that, it will fail with an OutOfMemoryError.
As you can imagine those limits may influence the GC, but they are no  
requirement for a GC.
Those limits exists for the security of the host system (which may not be  
a system that allows setting own itself, like Unix/Linux).

> A garbage collector will only kick in when the app runs low on memory.

Wrong. Please inform yourself. Current generational GCs have minor and  
major collections. The JLS only requires that before the program runs out  
of memory the garbage has to be collected, which does not mean it cannot  
do that earlier. In fact you may also request a full GC by calling  
"System.gc()" when you know there's time for it. But it's not recommended  
in general. With JDK 7 we will get a new "Garbage First" Collector, which  
works differently than the ones we have today. It will promise lower  
response times and a more predictable behaviour with about the same speed.  
Starting with Java6 update 14 you may try that one (if you like, I can  
give ou the command line switch to activate it). Basically it is also a  
copying collector and in some way it's also generational, but it's  
"promotion" strategy is different.
Anyway, it also won't only clean up when memory is low, but when it  
detects that there is a segment which is hardly live.

> On a
> system with dynamic memory allocation, that will not happen until the  
> entire
> system runs low on memory, unless you limit the app to some fixed amount.
> Which is an antiquated way of doing things.

Which is wrong, see above.
Today eve the C++ folks start using Garbage Collectors, because  
allocating/deallocating space using free-lists has proven to be slower  
than copying live objects.

> And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to  
> assumptions that programs will obey locality of reference.

Well, and what's the point? Stack allocation is just not necessary in a  
copy-colllector, bevause such a collector knows no deallocation (it just  
saves the survovors), so there is no gain from stack allocation. Stack  
allocation is faster in traditional C++ programs (without GCs), because  
the free-lists have to be managed.
Todays HotSpot-Compilers take memory-locality into account aswell, just  
read some papers about it, have a look at "escape analysis" for example.

Some further reading:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp09275.html
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp04223.html

> Pointer-chasing is a cache- hostile activity. Garbage collection  
> involves a lot of pointer-chasing,
> particularly of dead objects that have long since been flushed from the
> cache, compared with reference counting of recently-accessed objects.
> Therefore garbage collection loses performance.

You haven't read my previous posts, have you?
Dead objects are not considered by today's Garbage collectors.
Those trace only "reachable" objects and copy those. They won't even look  
at "dead" objects.
Since most objects die young, this is where you gain a lot of performance.

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-jtp01274.html

Reference counters, on the other hand, must detect when the reference  
count falls to zero. So they must look at each object, no matter if they  
are about to die, just to find out if they will die.

Regards
-Wanja-

-- 
Erstellt mit Operas revolution?rem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news at netfront.net ---


From roy at panix.com  Thu Feb 25 14:21:51 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:21:51 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-71BEF5.14215125022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list at python.org>,
 "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy at druid.net> wrote:

> The problem had to do with the way TCP/IP works, especially closer to
> the core.  Our provider was collecting data and sending it only after
> filling a buffer or after a timeout.  The timeout was short so it
> wouldn't normally be noticed and in most cases (web pages e.g.) the
> connection is opened, data is pushed and the connection is closed so
> the buffer is flushed immediately.  Our patterns were different so we
> were hitting the timeout on every single transaction and there was no
> way we would have been able to keep up.
> 
> Our first crack at fixing this was to simply add garbage to the packet
> we were sending.  Making the packets an order of magnitude bigger sped
> up the proccessing dramatically.  That wasn't a very clean solution
> though so we looked for a better way.

Interesting, the system I'm working with now has a similar problem.  We've 
got a request/ack protocol over TCP which often sends lots of small packets 
and can have all sorts of performance issues because of this.

In fact, we break completely on Solaris-10 with TCP Fusion enabled.  We've 
gone back and forth with Sun on this (they claim what we're doing is 
broken, we claim TCP Fusion is broken).  In the end, we just tell all of 
our Solaris-10 customers to disable TCP Fusion.


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 14:27:01 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:27:01 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca <lucat at despammed.com> wrote:
>> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young
>> kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an
>> embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
>>
>> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
>> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine identifiers
>> and messages in the language of the kid.
>>
>> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
>>  COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
>> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
>> identifiers to the language of the user.
>>
>> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
>> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.
> 
> It can certainly be done (c.f. ChinesePython -
> http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/english.html),
> but I know of no framework that simplifies the task. Essentially, you
> just have to manually modify Python's parser by swapping out the
> english for the other language (and if you want to mess with the basic
> types' names, their name definitions somewhere else too). There also
> might be encoding issues to deal with.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com

Yes, i am playing with Python source code, i have changed some keywords 
but the compile-process fails when it tries to compile some of python 
libraries which, of course, use english keywords... so i guess this is 
not a very clean/viable solution (without having to rewrite several 
parts of the libraries). A better solution could be to "duplicate" 
keywords adding a translated version but leaving the original version in 
place so that every module keeps working. In few words, if i was going 
to translate the keyword "if" in, say, italian "se", then i would have 
both "if" and also "se" working at the same time, in the same manner.
I think that the best way to do this is to insert a "filter" somewhere 
that converts every "se" keyword into a "if" keyword so that python 
doesn't even see the change.

What i would like to do is add a new keyword (lets call it "copydef" 
like in UCBLogo or whatever) that does this work at runtime by keeping a 
substitution table in RAM. If i could manage to add this new keyword to 
python then it would be easy to write a startup script that translates 
the keywords once python is "up and running" and without breaking 
existing python programs/libraries (unless the new keyword conflicts 
with functions defined inside these programs/libraries).

Thanx,
   Luca


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 14:28:26 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:28:26 +0100
Subject: Pedantic pickling error after reload?
In-Reply-To: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <7uo1aqFitnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 25.02.10 18:08, schrieb Robert:
> After (intended/controlled) reload or similar action on a module/class
> the pickle/cPickle.dump raises errors like
>
> pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle <class 'somemodule.SomeClass'>: it's
> not the same object as somemodule.SomeClass
>
>
> Cause in pickle.py (and cPickle) is a line
> "if klass is not obj:"
>
> Shouldn't it be enough to have "if klass.__name__ != obj.__name__:" there?

No. This would alias classes of same name, but living in different modules.

So at least you need to compare these, too. I'm not sure if there aren't 
even more corner-cases. Python's import-mechanism can sometimes be 
rather foot-shoot-prone.

> => a bug report/feature request?
>
> Classes can change face anyway during pickled state, why should a
> over-pedantic reaction break things here during runtime?
> (So far I'd need to walk the object tree in all facets and save against
> inf loops like pickle himself and re-class things .. )

If anything it's a feature - and I doubt it's really needed. Because 
reloading pickles with intermittend reload-module-operations is to rare 
a case to be really supported IMHO.

Do yourself a favor, write a unit-test that tests the desired behavior 
that makes you alter your code & then reload. This makes the problem go 
away, and you have a more stable development through having more tests :)

Diez


From helps4indian at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 14:42:57 2010
From: helps4indian at gmail.com (coolboy8)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:42:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Best auto insurance company
Message-ID: <9ec65bf7-3b50-4c9a-ba9c-681aa74d922c@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

Find the Best auto insurance company  here please visit
http://autoinsurancerathere.blogspot.com


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 25 14:57:51 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:57:51 +0000
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B86D63F.5090601@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Luca wrote:
> Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca <lucat at despammed.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to 
>>> young
>>> kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an
>>> embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
>>>
>>> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
>>> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine 
>>> identifiers
>>> and messages in the language of the kid.
>>>
>>> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
>>>  COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
>>> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
>>> identifiers to the language of the user.
>>>
>>> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
>>> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.
>>
>> It can certainly be done (c.f. ChinesePython -
>> http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/english.html),
>> but I know of no framework that simplifies the task. Essentially, you
>> just have to manually modify Python's parser by swapping out the
>> english for the other language (and if you want to mess with the basic
>> types' names, their name definitions somewhere else too). There also
>> might be encoding issues to deal with.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> -- 
>> http://blog.rebertia.com
> 
> Yes, i am playing with Python source code, i have changed some keywords 
> but the compile-process fails when it tries to compile some of python 
> libraries which, of course, use english keywords... so i guess this is 
> not a very clean/viable solution (without having to rewrite several 
> parts of the libraries). A better solution could be to "duplicate" 
> keywords adding a translated version but leaving the original version in 
> place so that every module keeps working. In few words, if i was going 
> to translate the keyword "if" in, say, italian "se", then i would have 
> both "if" and also "se" working at the same time, in the same manner.
> I think that the best way to do this is to insert a "filter" somewhere 
> that converts every "se" keyword into a "if" keyword so that python 
> doesn't even see the change.
> 
> What i would like to do is add a new keyword (lets call it "copydef" 
> like in UCBLogo or whatever) that does this work at runtime by keeping a 
> substitution table in RAM. If i could manage to add this new keyword to 
> python then it would be easy to write a startup script that translates 
> the keywords once python is "up and running" and without breaking 
> existing python programs/libraries (unless the new keyword conflicts 
> with functions defined inside these programs/libraries).
> 
Perhaps you could use a different extension, eg ".pyn", so existing
".py" files are handled as-is but ".pyn" files are read through a
translator.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 15:06:11 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:06:11 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 25.02.10 20:27, schrieb Luca:
> Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca <lucat at despammed.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to
>>> young
>>> kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an
>>> embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
>>>
>>> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
>>> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine
>>> identifiers
>>> and messages in the language of the kid.
>>>
>>> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
>>> COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
>>> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
>>> identifiers to the language of the user.
>>>
>>> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
>>> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.
>>
>> It can certainly be done (c.f. ChinesePython -
>> http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/english.html),
>> but I know of no framework that simplifies the task. Essentially, you
>> just have to manually modify Python's parser by swapping out the
>> english for the other language (and if you want to mess with the basic
>> types' names, their name definitions somewhere else too). There also
>> might be encoding issues to deal with.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --
>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> Yes, i am playing with Python source code, i have changed some keywords
> but the compile-process fails when it tries to compile some of python
> libraries which, of course, use english keywords... so i guess this is
> not a very clean/viable solution (without having to rewrite several
> parts of the libraries). A better solution could be to "duplicate"
> keywords adding a translated version but leaving the original version in
> place so that every module keeps working. In few words, if i was going
> to translate the keyword "if" in, say, italian "se", then i would have
> both "if" and also "se" working at the same time, in the same manner.
> I think that the best way to do this is to insert a "filter" somewhere
> that converts every "se" keyword into a "if" keyword so that python
> doesn't even see the change.
>
> What i would like to do is add a new keyword (lets call it "copydef"
> like in UCBLogo or whatever) that does this work at runtime by keeping a
> substitution table in RAM. If i could manage to add this new keyword to
> python then it would be easy to write a startup script that translates
> the keywords once python is "up and running" and without breaking
> existing python programs/libraries (unless the new keyword conflicts
> with functions defined inside these programs/libraries).

You could use import-hooks for importing your code. There was a 
python-magazine article a while ago that showed how to use that + a 
parser to import seamlessly a DSL.

Using pyparsing to write a python-grammar on the fly that simply 
exchanges the keywords before passing it to the interpreter is also easy.

But to be honest: I doubt it's worth the effort. Really. Teaching people 
how to code, but in something that is *not* the "real" language is of 
little, if any, benefit.

And also I don't think that your concerns are valid in general. Keywords 
are like brandnames or other things - the stand for a concept, and 
people immediatly accept them when they want them.

Much, much, much more important would - if anything - be a 
standard-library, or a wrapper for that, e.g. for turtle-graphics, that 
was written in terms of your desired language.

Diez


From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Thu Feb 25 15:09:12 2010
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:09:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of 
	string?
References: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b86a81d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<d3328870-7a69-4ef6-bbe2-8bad2e9fde2c@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<4b86b16b$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a1b32b38-e241-452e-a00b-22ddc66f918c@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 12:20?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:00:07 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 9:41?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> > cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> >> > I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts
> >> > them into a dictionary, i.e.
>
> >> > '(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'
>
> >> > Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
> >> > float objects instead of strings?
>
> >> No. Just convert the match with int() or float() before storing it in
> >> the dictionary. That is, instead of:
>
> >> d[key] = match
>
> >> use
>
> >> d[key] = float(match)
>
> >> or similar.
>
> > I was afraid that was the only option. ?Oh well, thought I'd ask anyway.
>
> Why "afraid"? What's the problem with calling int or float on the match?
>
> --
> Steven

He must not be Dutch

:-) SCNR


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 15:23:30 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 12:23:30 -0800
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
References: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka> <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka>
	<mailman.2844.1266693245.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<256926de-e175-4fa2-aa24-dbd5f96756ef@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm6m82$jsq$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <256926de-e175-4fa2-aa24-dbd5f96756ef at u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>,
sebastian.noack at googlemail.com <sebastian.noack at googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 20, 8:13=A0pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>>
>> Here's a thought: =A0Consider the subprocess module. =A0 It can do thefor=
>k
>> and any necessary pipes and can do so in an OS independent way. =A0 It
>> might make you life much easier.
>
>As far as i know the subprocess module provides only functionality for
>running any program as subprocess. But I just want to fork the current
>process without putting some code in an external python script.

Then try multiprocessing
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 15:32:19 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 12:32:19 -0800
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7udu49Fk3uU1@mid.individual.net>
	<38ddd614-583c-430d-b998-214bd6360eb2@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm6moj$duo$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <38ddd614-583c-430d-b998-214bd6360eb2 at b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
lallous  <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 22, 12:42=A0am, Gregory Ewing <greg.ew... at canterbury.ac.nz>
>wrote:
>> lallouswrote:
>>>
>>> If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
>>> would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
>>> want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
>>> implement the cb.
>>
>> I would simply not implement the method at all in the base
>> class. Then the C++ code can do an attribute lookup for
>> the method, and if it's not found, do nothing.
>
>That is what I currently do. But if I comment out the implementations
>(empty ones) then the documentation generation tool will not document
>the callbacks.

Maybe deleting the method after the class would work.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From johnroth1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 15:51:00 2010
From: johnroth1 at gmail.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:51:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <c8f734d7-f5a7-4ce1-85ae-63e16485095d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 1:23?pm, Andreas Waldenburger <use... at geekmail.INVALID>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
>
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
> ? ? while not wise(up):
> ? ? ? ? yield scorn
>
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>
> /W
>
> --
> INVALID? DE!

Is the problem that they've got the docstring in the wrong place,
or that the comment isn't saying anything that can't be read in
the method name?

The first is easily fixable with a bit of tutorial about how
a properly placed docstring prints out in various contexts, plus
a quick script to move the suckers.

The second is going to take more work to get the point across
that comments that reproduce what the method name says are waste.

John Roth


From dontsendleospam at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 17:02:31 2010
From: dontsendleospam at gmail.com (dontspamleo)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:02:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi Arnaud et al,

Here is the link to the bug report from which the discussion in PEP
289 was extracted:

http://bugs.python.org/issue872326

It looks like they were fixing a bunch of bugs and that this
discussion was one of the many in that thread.

Here is another post which points to the core of the issue: early/late
binding. It is also pointed to in PEP 289.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-April/044555.html

Here is Guido's rationale (his text is the items (a) and (b) below. My
comments follow.

(a) I find it hard to defend automatic variable capture given Python's
    general late-binding semantics

MY COMMENTS: That is a good point. There are however exceptions to the
"general late-binding semantics" (GLBS) in Python. The outer loop does
bind early in this case in fact. A point to consider along with GLBS
is the unintuitive early bind of the external iterator vs late bind of
the internal iterator. That is a function not of early vs. late
binding, but of the current translation of generator expressions to
generator functions. Using Arnaud's approach would fix that and make
the code IMO so more pythonic.

(b) I believe that use cases needing early binding are uncommon and
    strained: they all involve creating a list of generator
    expressions, which IMO is a pretty unusual thing to do

MY COMMENTS: This is actually a pretty common use case. Any iteration
over objects of arity 2 or greater (A matrix, a table, a tree searched
breadthwise under some data structures, etc.) can conveniently and
cleanly be expressed using a generator expression.

I'd also add that perhaps the title of Guido's post: "Generator
Expressions - Let's Move Forward" may have unintentionally discouraged
people from reexamining the issue.

I would like to see this decision revisited. Obviously before spending
any time on this I'd like to gauge if there is further interest. Am I
off the mark? Maybe there is a technical misunderstanding on my part.
If there are more people affected (Since the last week I found some
other postings here and on other lists and blogs) who can make a clear
case, then what is the next step?

Cheers,
Leo.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 17:28:32 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:28:32 +0100
Subject: compiling python question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.205.1267059329.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.149.1266976820.4577.python-list@python.org>	<4B859F0C.1060308@nospam.web.de>
	<mailman.205.1267059329.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uobshFeqbU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 25.02.10 01:55, schrieb Mag Gam:
> sorry for the vague answer.
>
> Its Linux.
>
> The configure build does not say anything actually. This is for SAGE.
> I managed to have it pick it up by compiling/installing tcl and tk and
> then recompile python

Then most probably installing the tk-dev packages would have been 
sufficient.

diez


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 18:08:26 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:08:26 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net> <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> You could use import-hooks for importing your code. There was a 
> python-magazine article a while ago that showed how to use that + a 
> parser to import seamlessly a DSL.

I will look into this, right now i don't know what import-hooks are nor 
if i can use them from embedded python.

> Using pyparsing to write a python-grammar on the fly that simply 
> exchanges the keywords before passing it to the interpreter is also easy.

This could be an easy solution yes... unfortunately this makes other 
problems arise... for instance... if i have an IDE that shows the 
translated language and i want to debug it step by step... would it be 
easy for me to map the english version (the one that python sees) with 
the translated version? I still have to look at this and how to run the 
debugger from the application that is "hosting" python so for now the 
answer is "i don't know".

Right now, by simply changing the file Python-3.1.1/Grammar/Grammar i 
could obtain this (with "if" translated in "se"):

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb 25 2010, 22:44:50)
[GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> Vero = True
 >>> stampa = print
 >>>
 >>> se Vero:
...   stampa("Ciao")
...
Ciao
 >>>

Which seems to work, but requires to manually change the source code and 
it is way too complex for someone that has zero knowledge about the 
internals of python (like myself). Besides... it is a very ugly hack IMO.

> But to be honest: I doubt it's worth the effort. Really. Teaching people 
> how to code, but in something that is *not* the "real" language is of 
> little, if any, benefit.
> 
> And also I don't think that your concerns are valid in general. Keywords 
> are like brandnames or other things - the stand for a concept, and 
> people immediatly accept them when they want them.

Maybe you are right, but being italian myself i can remember when i was 
a middle schooler (no computer before that) and the hours spent on my 
MSX figuring out how the thing worked. I learned all the commands as 
"brandnames" without really understanding them. I had _no_ idea that 
"if" meant... if, or that "print" meant to print. I had zero knowledge 
of english and for this reason most of these commands were meaningless 
to me, i didn't even suspect they had a meaning in an existing language, 
i just thought that was the way computers talked. When several years 
later, in High School, i learned English it was a real surprise for me 
to find out that the commands i had learned by heart as "magical words" 
actually had a precise meaning in "human language" and i think this 
would have helped me to figure out several things that instead took 
hours or days to understand.
Now kids have internet, they study english from the kindergarten, they 
have a huge quantity of manuals and books freely available, so maybe you 
are right and i am just over-worrying. But still, i think it would be 
nice to use a language familiar to the kid (especially very young ones), 
it would make the learning process faster (no need to learn new words) 
and it would make the computer feel almost like a virtual "friend".

> Much, much, much more important would - if anything - be a 
> standard-library, or a wrapper for that, e.g. for turtle-graphics, that 
> was written in terms of your desired language.

I already made some tests with turtle-graphics and it seems to work. My 
next problem was to translate the language.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3093/zzz5.png

[Btw... i took too much time to write this post so the ladybug fell 
asleep...]

Thanx,
   Luca


From news123 at free.fr  Thu Feb 25 18:09:39 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:09:39 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4b870333$0$15434$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Luca,

Luca wrote:
> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to
> young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use
> an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
> 
> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine
> identifiers and messages in the language of the kid.
> 
> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
>   COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
> identifiers to the language of the user.
> 
> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.
> 
a pragmatic approach might be to preprocess the source code
and keep the original version as comments above the translated line.
(for debugging)

or to preprecess the input line before the 'exec'.

It might be, that kids are flexible enough to use English words without
understanding them.

My younger brother could write Pascal before he learnt any English and
he never cared, what 'if' 'then' 'else' 'for', etc. meant.

It might be useful though to internationalize the python errror messages
if that's not something already done.


bye


N






From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 18:41:57 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:41:57 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <mailman.254.1267127876.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.254.1267127876.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uog65F5vuU1@mid.individual.net>

MRAB wrote:
> Perhaps you could use a different extension, eg ".pyn", so existing
> ".py" files are handled as-is but ".pyn" files are read through a
> translator.

This could be a good idea... especially since i could make my own 
extension since we are talking of a special-purpose application that 
only incorporates python as a library.

Thanx,
   Luca


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 19:05:49 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:05:49 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net> <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7uohitFbm4U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

>> And also I don't think that your concerns are valid in general.
>> Keywords are like brandnames or other things - the stand for a
>> concept, and people immediatly accept them when they want them.
>
> Maybe you are right, but being italian myself i can remember when i was
> a middle schooler (no computer before that) and the hours spent on my
> MSX figuring out how the thing worked. I learned all the commands as
> "brandnames" without really understanding them. I had _no_ idea that
> "if" meant... if, or that "print" meant to print. I had zero knowledge
> of english and for this reason most of these commands were meaningless
> to me, i didn't even suspect they had a meaning in an existing language,
> i just thought that was the way computers talked. When several years
> later, in High School, i learned English it was a real surprise for me
> to find out that the commands i had learned by heart as "magical words"
> actually had a precise meaning in "human language" and i think this
> would have helped me to figure out several things that instead took
> hours or days to understand.
> Now kids have internet, they study english from the kindergarten, they
> have a huge quantity of manuals and books freely available, so maybe you
> are right and i am just over-worrying. But still, i think it would be
> nice to use a language familiar to the kid (especially very young ones),
> it would make the learning process faster (no need to learn new words)
> and it would make the computer feel almost like a virtual "friend".

I can't argue this from a technical point of view. Nor from a personal, 
as when I was first exposed to programming, I already new a few bits & 
pieces of english (leaving highschool with an E grade though....)

However, I'm pretty sure what held me back most was the lack of 
(affordable, tuned to the younger audience) course material, and 
exchange with peers. Both which has *massively* changed with the 
internet available even in rather rural aereas of the world.

Now under the assumption that you are right here, if keywords are what 
children keeps from learning programming - then your approach stops much 
to early. I already mentioned the standard-library, but of course much 
more important are the builtins. What's an int? Hell, I've been using 
the term integer for decades now, but actually don't really know if it 
really stands for "ganzzahl", the german word for what it is.

And once they learned the language from whatever course material you 
prepared for them, they'd take a look outside - and find *nothing*. No 
code snippet to re-use without error-prone rewriting. Lack of 
understanding because of unfamiliar words. And so on.

All this with a rather high cost on your side to prepare & and maintain 
a programming environment based upon a patched, potentially buggy 
interpreter + assorted course material.

I really think you should instead focus on creating an environtment 
similar to what squeak offers, something integrated with easy access to 
graphics and sounds, that create amazement in the children and makes 
them want to code to realize their dreams. And of course natively named 
libraries, plus course-material. I didn't measure it, but by 
guesstimation, the ratio between keywords & other literals in python 
should be around the range of 1/10.

Finally - well, if I'd were to learn italian, I'd rather not have my 
teacher translate all the nice italian words to german in my textbook... 
;) It *is*, after all, learning a language we are talking here. It is 
alien. Even python :)

Diez


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 19:06:10 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:06:10 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <4b870333$0$15434$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4b870333$0$15434$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7uohjjFcvqU1@mid.individual.net>

News123 wrote:
> a pragmatic approach might be to preprocess the source code
> and keep the original version as comments above the translated line.
> (for debugging)

Not very nice to see though. This change should be transparent to the 
kid, he/she should not be aware of this "translation".

> or to preprecess the input line before the 'exec'.

This could be a solution, yes, but then i would also need to figure out 
a way to show the original line when debugging (still, i know nothing 
about pdb, maybe it is possible in a easy way).

> It might be, that kids are flexible enough to use English words without
> understanding them.
> 
> My younger brother could write Pascal before he learnt any English and
> he never cared, what 'if' 'then' 'else' 'for', etc. meant.

I had a similar experience. When i was a middle schooler i knew nothing 
about English and so i learned Basic and then Pascal without actually 
knowing that those words had a meaning at all. For me they were just 
kind of "magical words" that i could use to tell the computer what to 
do. So i know for sure that this is possible. But... imagine the use of 
this language in a elementary school. Some kids, like me or you or your 
brother would be interested enough to find it easy to learn the new 
words. For others it would only be a pain. Another lesson among others 
that to them makes no sense at all. If we could make it easier for them 
to understand the words used in the language the teacher would have an 
easier time to explain some concepts and maybe even these kids could 
have fun and begin to love it.

I understand that this "breaks" the language, that it would be better if 
they would just learn the "original" language... but most teachers would 
ask "then why not use Logo instead? it is already in our language..."

I have nothing against logo of course, i have learned it myself even 
before Pascal and i had lots of fun with it. But python is much more 
widespread than logo and i think in some ways it makes "more sense" than 
logo and it is not much harder. The only problem that i see is that Logo 
does have its commands translated while python doesn't nor, it seems, 
there is an easy way to add this functionality.

> It might be useful though to internationalize the python errror messages
> if that's not something already done.

Yes, this would be very important... but still, it should be easy for 
the teacher to translate the messages to make them more understandable 
to the kids.

For instance...

* Python:
 >>> draw
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'draw' is not defined

* Logo:
? draw
I don't know how  to draw

Logo's message, while maybe too simple for a professional developer, is 
certainly much more easy for a kid. So you see, it is not just a matter 
of internationalization... it is also a matter of users-target. If i am 
talking to a young kid i should use words and concepts that are easy for 
him/her to understand... so, for my target, it would be very important 
not only a correct translation in my language, but also the use of words 
and concepts that are familiar to a kid.

Thanx,
   Luca


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 19:08:50 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:08:50 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net> <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7uohoiFbm4U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

On a related note, did you investigate SUGAR of the OLPC? I'd say these 
guys certainly tried to create something that appealed to children, and 
AFAIK it comes with a Python interpreter. I'm don't know anything about 
that, nor if it comes with learning material. Might be worth checking out.

Diez


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 19:10:57 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 16:10:57 -0800
Subject: Compiling and running 32-bit Python on 64-bit server?
References: <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm73ih$rpj$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b at q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Mikko Ohtamaa  <mikko at redinnovation.com> wrote:
>
>How one could create 32-bit Python run-time enviroment, preferable
>virtualenv, on 64-bit Linux (VPS), reducing memory usage? This
>environment could actually beat 64-bit in performance, due to better
>memory cache use.
>
>I assume this involves having lib32 libs and compiling Python with
>some magical switches.

The simplest approach would probably be to do the compilation on a 32-bit
system and just install it on 64-bit.  There are some magic flags, yes;
you'll need to Google using e.g. "linux force 32-bit compile".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From cg at graysage.com  Thu Feb 25 19:11:32 2010
From: cg at graysage.com (Chris Gray)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 17:11:32 -0700
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
> 
> > Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
> 
> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things like

I'm by no means an expert, but how does reference counting deal with
arbitrary long cycles of references (btw I've *written* a simple
reference counter for a programming language)?

When I asked someone whose knowlege of Java I trust, he said that modern
Java's do both reference counting and garbage collection. That was 2 or 3
years ago. I would have guessed that Python was the same.

-- 
Experience should guide us, not rule us.

Chris Gray


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 19:12:00 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:12:00 +0100
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uohugFedhU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> That better way turned out to asynchronous update transactions.  All we
> did was keep feeding updates to the remote site and forget about ACKS.
> We then had a second process which handled ACKS and tracked which
> packets had been properly transferred.  The system had IDs on each
> update and retries happened if ACKS didn't happen soon enough.
> Naturally we ignored ACKS that we had already processed.

sounds like using UDP to me, of course with a protocol on top (namely 
the one you implemented).

Any reason you sticked to TCP instead?

Diez


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 19:29:13 2010
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8df8afb-70ff-4a4c-ab8a-f4acdb9d5f86@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 7:00?am, fat bold cyclop <fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com> wrote:
> why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?

It's simple, Everything must have a value!


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Feb 25 19:34:35 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:34:35 -0800
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
	<7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B87171B.7030708@stoneleaf.us>

Luca wrote:

[snippety]

> Maybe you are right, but being italian myself i can remember when i was 
> a middle schooler (no computer before that) and the hours spent on my 
> MSX figuring out how the thing worked. I learned all the commands as 
> "brandnames" without really understanding them. I had _no_ idea that 
> "if" meant... if, or that "print" meant to print. I had zero knowledge 
> of english and for this reason most of these commands were meaningless 
> to me, i didn't even suspect they had a meaning in an existing language, 
> i just thought that was the way computers talked.

[more snippety]

Perhaps the lesson to learn from this is that as *you* teach programming 
to non-english speakers you take the time to say "'if' means 'se', 
'print' means 'stampa'", etc.  I suspect your early years would have 
been much easier with those bits of knowledge.  :)

~Ethan~


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 25 19:41:29 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:41:29 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
Message-ID: <hm75br$vo$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Chris Gray:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
> 
>> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>>
>>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things like
> 
> I'm by no means an expert, but how does reference counting deal with
> arbitrary long cycles of references (btw I've *written* a simple
> reference counter for a programming language)?

Generally it doesn't. Some solutions have however been proposed for 
std::shared_ptr in C++. None have made it to any noteworthy status, but they 
demonstrate that there are more or less practical solutions for the most common 
cases.

Currently the upshot is that if you need the kind of self-referential spaghetti 
structure (no offense) created by mathematical expressions that refer to each 
other, then you've passed beyond what can be handled practically by reference 
counting alone or even in combination with cycle handling techniques.

For that you're better off with some functional language, or Python... ;-)


> When I asked someone whose knowlege of Java I trust, he said that modern
> Java's do both reference counting and garbage collection. That was 2 or 3
> years ago. I would have guessed that Python was the same.

Yes, Python adds general garbage collection to deal with cycles.

Essentially the reference counting deals efficiently and immediately with 
objects created by expression evaluation, while the general garbage collection 
deals with cyclic structures.

But there's no magic: in particular in Java, Python and like languages you must 
still remember to remove references installed in singletons and globals (e.g. 
for event notifications), otherwise objects will still be referenced and thus 
not garbage collected, causing a memory leak.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 19:42:35 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:42:35 -0600
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
In-Reply-To: <b8df8afb-70ff-4a4c-ab8a-f4acdb9d5f86@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<b8df8afb-70ff-4a4c-ab8a-f4acdb9d5f86@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm75ds$o99$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 18:29 PM, r wrote:
> On Feb 25, 7:00 am, fat bold cyclop<fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> why (1, 2, 3)>  [1, 2, 3] is true?
>
> It's simple, Everything must have a value!

That is not at all an explanation, much less a true one. Please read the other 
posts in this thread; they have explained the situation rather well.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 19:51:01 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 16:51:01 -0800
Subject: How would I do a continuous write over a pipe in the following 
	code...
References: <9d0f6456-97c7-4bde-8e07-9576b02f91f9@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm75tl$h1k$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <9d0f6456-97c7-4bde-8e07-9576b02f91f9 at t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
chad  <cdalten at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>import subprocess as s
>
>broadcast = s.Popen("echo test | wall", shell=True,stdout=s.PIPE)
>
>out = broadcast.stdout
>while 1:
>    out
>    broadcast.wait()
>
>broadcast.stdout.close()
>
>
>The code only executes once. What I want to do is be able to
>continuously write over the pipe once it is open. I could put
>s.Popen() inside the while loop, but that seems a bit too messy. So is
>there some way to just open the pipe once, and once it is open, just
>continuously write over it vs just opening and closing the pipe every
>time?

You really should do this instead, untested:

broadcast = s.Popen(['wall'], stdin=s.PIPE)
while 1:
    broadcast.write('test\n')
    time.sleep(1)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 19:58:07 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 00:58:07 GMT
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
Message-ID: <4b871c9e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:11:32 -0700, Chris Gray wrote:

> I'm by no means an expert, but how does reference counting deal with
> arbitrary long cycles of references (btw I've *written* a simple
> reference counter for a programming language)?

It doesn't, or at least the CPython one doesn't.

In CPython, even a short reference cycle defeats it, which is why CPython 
also uses a second garbage collector. If we turn that off, we can see how 
even a one-element cycle defeats reference counting:

>>> import gc
>>> gc.disable()
>>>
>>> class K:
...     def __del__(self):
...             print "Bye now"
...
>>> k = K()
>>> del k  # Test it works as expected.
Bye now
>>> 
>>> k = K()  # Now try with a cycle.
>>> k.attr = k
>>> del k
>>>
>>>

Normally, you would clear the ref cycle this way:

>>> gc.collect()
2

But in this case it doesn't work because the object in the cycle has a 
__del__ method, and Python can't predict a safe order to run the __del__ 
method. (I'm surprised that this is an issue with a single object, but 
what do I know?) So we have to inspect the list of garbage, manually 
break the cycle, clear new references we've created, and then it will be 
garbage collected:

>>> gc.garbage[0].attr = None  # Break the cycle
>>> del gc.garbage[:]
Bye now

This is one reason why __del__ methods are not recommended.


 
> When I asked someone whose knowlege of Java I trust, he said that modern
> Java's do both reference counting and garbage collection. That was 2 or
> 3 years ago. I would have guessed that Python was the same.

CPython has both now. Jython uses whatever the Java implementation uses, 
and IronPython uses .Net's memory management scheme. Other Pythons do 
whatever they like :)


Some interesting information here:

http://www.digi.com/wiki/developer/index.php/Python_Garbage_Collection



-- 
Steven


From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Feb 25 20:00:32 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja> <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
	<hm75br$vo$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <cda549a4-6377-4ff5-a1a8-8cb06fc35fbb@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 6:41?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * Chris Gray:
>
> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>
> >> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>
> >>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
> >> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things like
>
> > I'm by no means an expert, but how does reference counting deal with
> > arbitrary long cycles of references (btw I've *written* a simple
> > reference counter for a programming language)?
>
> Generally it doesn't. Some solutions have however been proposed for
> std::shared_ptr in C++. None have made it to any noteworthy status, but they
> demonstrate that there are more or less practical solutions for the most common
> cases.
>
> Currently the upshot is that if you need the kind of self-referential spaghetti
> structure (no offense) created by mathematical expressions that refer to each
> other, then you've passed beyond what can be handled practically by reference
> counting alone or even in combination with cycle handling techniques.
>
> For that you're better off with some functional language, or Python... ;-)
>
> > When I asked someone whose knowlege of Java I trust, he said that modern
> > Java's do both reference counting and garbage collection. That was 2 or 3
> > years ago. I would have guessed that Python was the same.
>
> Yes, Python adds general garbage collection to deal with cycles.
>
> Essentially the reference counting deals efficiently and immediately with
> objects created by expression evaluation, while the general garbage collection
> deals with cyclic structures.
>
> But there's no magic: in particular in Java, Python and like languages you must
> still remember to remove references installed in singletons and globals (e.g.
> for event notifications), otherwise objects will still be referenced and thus
> not garbage collected, causing a memory leak.

Is that really considered a leak, a single instance
of an uncollected global as opposed to a function
that is called millions of times, and each time
it's called creates uncollected temporary variables?

>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 20:06:18 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 01:06:18 GMT
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
	<hm75br$vo$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<cda549a4-6377-4ff5-a1a8-8cb06fc35fbb@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b871e8a$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:00:32 -0800, Mensanator wrote:

> Is that really considered a leak, a single instance of an uncollected
> global as opposed to a function that is called millions of times, and
> each time it's called creates uncollected temporary variables?

I think it's generally called "garbage". When the amount of garbage 
grows, or *could* grow, it is called a leak. But nobody is going to slap 
you for calling a single instance of an uncollectable object a leak.


-- 
Steven


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 21:14:06 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:14:06 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm7ape$21n$1@speranza.aioe.org>

MRAB wrote:

> You could try Dependency Walker: http://dependencywalker.com/
> 

I have (belatedly) read the py2exe tutorial:
http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Tutorial#Step522
and learned about the msvcr90.dll issue.  I haven't finished sorting this out 
yet, but I did find that running vcredist_x86.exe (the right version!) on box 1 
fixed things there.  I also tried (naively) manually adding 
dist\Microsoft.VC90.CRT with the manifest file and msvcr90.dll, but this doesn't 
seem to work - it seems that p2exe must do the file copying.


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Feb 25 23:01:26 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:01:26 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <7uohugFedhU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uohugFedhU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20100225230126.419f8c53.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:12:00 +0100
"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> > That better way turned out to asynchronous update transactions.  All we
> > did was keep feeding updates to the remote site and forget about ACKS.
> > We then had a second process which handled ACKS and tracked which
> > packets had been properly transferred.  The system had IDs on each
> > update and retries happened if ACKS didn't happen soon enough.
> > Naturally we ignored ACKS that we had already processed.
> 
> sounds like using UDP to me, of course with a protocol on top (namely 
> the one you implemented).
> 
> Any reason you sticked to TCP instead?

TCP does a great job of delivering a stream of data in order and
handling the retries.  The app really was connection oriented and we
saw no reason to emulate that over an unconnected protocol.  There were
other wheels to reinvent that were more important.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From darnzen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 23:54:41 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:54:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
Message-ID: <814d3f0f-9530-44f3-a533-087540bdcd81@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
solution (seems like a bit of a hack).

First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It will make more sense
after I diagram it:

#Module main.py

class App:
    def sperg(self):
         pass

app = App()
[main loop and such]
 -----------------------------
# Module A.py
import main
class Foo:
     @staticmethod
     chum(nType, nPtr):
               # Need to access function / data in app instance
               app.sperg(nType, nPtr)



From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 00:07:55 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:07:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
Message-ID: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
solution (seems like a bit of a hack).

First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:

#Module main.py
from A import *

class App:
    def sperg(self):
         self.a = A()

app = App()
[main loop and such]
 -----------------------------
# Module A.py
import main
class Foo:
      Selves=[]
     def __init__(self):
               Foo.Selves.append(self)
     @staticmethod
     def chum_callback(nType, nP):
               # Need to access function / data in app instance
               app.sperg(nP)
               # Need to access func data in Foo
               # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
               self = Foo.getSelf(nP)

     def getSelf(nP):
               return self.Selves[nP]

---------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
get at them from the staticmethod.
What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
the A.py module.

How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
with the class instance in the constructor)?
Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?

Sorry for the double / partial post :(


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 02:12:48 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 07:12:48 GMT
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b877470$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:07:55 -0800, darnzen wrote:

> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
> 
> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks, but
> because of this, I'm losing instance info.
[...]
> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along with
> the class instance in the constructor)? Is there another way to do this
> that's not such a hack?

Pass the instance explicitly:

>>> class K(object):
...     @staticmethod
...     def static(self, x, y):
...         print self, x, y
...
>>> k = K()
>>> k.static(k, 1, 2)
<__main__.K object at 0xb7c2544c> 1 2


-- 
Steven


From gaoxtwarrior at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 02:17:23 2010
From: gaoxtwarrior at gmail.com (Gao)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:17:23 +0800
Subject: Hi, I know it's stupid, but does your foreigner do a lot of OT work?
Message-ID: <hm7si3$oaj$1@www.shinco.com>

I'm Chinese, I'm working in a famous vendor company which let employee 
do a lot of OT work, 2 more hours per day, and sometime work in weekend. 
Is that the same in USA and European?


From kalakal.anjali at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 02:30:11 2010
From: kalakal.anjali at gmail.com (HOT GIRLS HOT Night)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:30:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: %%% Funny College Girls Nude Video HERE %%%
Message-ID: <00f35ca7-f3d6-439e-863c-31e121b528ad@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

%%% Funny College Girls Nude Video HERE %%%

http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 26 02:40:54 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:40:54 +0000
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>

dontspamleo <dontsendleospam at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Arnaud et al,
>
> Here is the link to the bug report from which the discussion in PEP
> 289 was extracted:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue872326
>
> It looks like they were fixing a bunch of bugs and that this
> discussion was one of the many in that thread.
>
> Here is another post which points to the core of the issue: early/late
> binding. It is also pointed to in PEP 289.
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-April/044555.html

Thanks for digging those out!

> Here is Guido's rationale (his text is the items (a) and (b) below. My
> comments follow.
>
> (a) I find it hard to defend automatic variable capture given Python's
>     general late-binding semantics
>
> MY COMMENTS: That is a good point. There are however exceptions to the
> "general late-binding semantics" (GLBS) in Python. The outer loop does
> bind early in this case in fact. A point to consider along with GLBS
> is the unintuitive early bind of the external iterator vs late bind of
> the internal iterator. That is a function not of early vs. late
> binding, but of the current translation of generator expressions to
> generator functions. Using Arnaud's approach would fix that and make
> the code IMO so more pythonic.

But see this message from Guido:

http://bugs.python.org/issue872326#msg45190

It looks like he's thinking of early binding of free variables.  Later
on he seems to contradict this.

Below it is mentioned that two patches were made, one with the current
behaviour and one with the one you (and I) would prefer.

> (b) I believe that use cases needing early binding are uncommon and
>     strained: they all involve creating a list of generator
>     expressions, which IMO is a pretty unusual thing to do
>
> MY COMMENTS: This is actually a pretty common use case. Any iteration
> over objects of arity 2 or greater (A matrix, a table, a tree searched
> breadthwise under some data structures, etc.) can conveniently and
> cleanly be expressed using a generator expression.

And also your example when defining a generator expression in a class
scope becomes confusing with the current semantics.

> I'd also add that perhaps the title of Guido's post: "Generator
> Expressions - Let's Move Forward" may have unintentionally discouraged
> people from reexamining the issue.
>
> I would like to see this decision revisited. Obviously before spending
> any time on this I'd like to gauge if there is further interest. Am I
> off the mark? Maybe there is a technical misunderstanding on my part.
> If there are more people affected (Since the last week I found some
> other postings here and on other lists and blogs) who can make a clear
> case, then what is the next step?

I suppose it would be interesting to see how this can be implemented,
maybe look at the gexp.diff.capture file on the bug tracker.  I was
intending to look into it a couple of years ago but I could never find
the time :(

-- 
Arnaud


From baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 03:28:04 2010
From: baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com (Baptiste Lepilleur)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:28:04 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
Message-ID: <d14bb4711002260028s498290a2l2616139f5d763d6b@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/24 Lars Gust?bel <lars at gustaebel.de>

> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
> > I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
> > TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
> > search while they have a doc string:
> >
> > http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=gzopen
> >
> http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html?highlight=tarfile#tarfile.TarFile
> >
> > See script at the end for list of class methods.
> >
> > Is this "by design" or is there some an odd bug in doc generation lurking
> > around? This somehow seem to be specific to module tarfile. Fraction
> > classmethod from_float() is available in the documentation and found by a
> > search for example...
>
> First of all, Python's module documentation is not generated from module
> docstrings, each module has its own rst text file in the documentation tree
> instead.
>

I was ignorant of that fact. Thanks for letting me know.


> But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class
> has
> three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
> compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
> classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
> method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
> decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
> does many more other high-level things as well.
>

I think it would be best to annotate the help string to let people know of
the facts it is not intended for public usage (or restriction that apply,
e.g. only for subclassing as you hinted in another post).

If I find a method using dir/doc string, I don't check the public
documentation to see if it is present. And even if I did, now that I know
that documentation is maintained separately from the code base, I would
rather assumes a documentation bug than this being by design as is the case
here.

Notes: googling around, there is already a few uses of TarFile.gzopen(). My
guess would be that people find it more convenient for passing compression
level.

Anyway, thanks for writing this module, it very easy to use!

Baptiste.
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From peloko45 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 03:55:49 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:55:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get dosctring without import
Message-ID: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
*__doc__*.

Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
get the docstring without import a package


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 04:06:17 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:06:17 +0100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
In-Reply-To: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uph89FrdiU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 09:55, schrieb Joan Miller:
> When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> *__doc__*.
>
> Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> get the docstring without import a package

You'd need to write your own parser for that. All standard tools simply 
import, see another thread a few days ago where a user had problems with 
help on modules.

Also, without importing, you'd not get docstrings of C-extension-objects.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 04:15:47 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:15:47 +0100
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> #Module main.py
> from A import *
>
> class App:
>      def sperg(self):
>           self.a = A()
>
> app = App()
> [main loop and such]
>   -----------------------------
> # Module A.py
> import main
> class Foo:
>        Selves=[]
>       def __init__(self):
>                 Foo.Selves.append(self)
>       @staticmethod
>       def chum_callback(nType, nP):
>                 # Need to access function / data in app instance
>                 app.sperg(nP)
>                 # Need to access func data in Foo
>                 # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
>                 self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
>       def getSelf(nP):
>                 return self.Selves[nP]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> get at them from the staticmethod.
> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
> the A.py module.
>
> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> with the class instance in the constructor)?
> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> Sorry for the double / partial post :(

Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL 
utilized by ctypes?

I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give 
you your self, instead relying on global state.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 04:19:15 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:19:15 +0100
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.257.1267156817.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uohugFedhU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.257.1267156817.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7upi0jFuapU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 05:01, schrieb D'Arcy J.M. Cain:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:12:00 +0100
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  wrote:
>>> That better way turned out to asynchronous update transactions.  All we
>>> did was keep feeding updates to the remote site and forget about ACKS.
>>> We then had a second process which handled ACKS and tracked which
>>> packets had been properly transferred.  The system had IDs on each
>>> update and retries happened if ACKS didn't happen soon enough.
>>> Naturally we ignored ACKS that we had already processed.
>>
>> sounds like using UDP to me, of course with a protocol on top (namely
>> the one you implemented).
>>
>> Any reason you sticked to TCP instead?
>
> TCP does a great job of delivering a stream of data in order and
> handling the retries.  The app really was connection oriented and we
> saw no reason to emulate that over an unconnected protocol.  There were
> other wheels to reinvent that were more important.

So when you talk about ACKs, you don't mean these on the TCP-level 
(darn, whatever iso-level that is...), but on some higher level?

Diez


From massimodipierro71 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 04:32:30 2010
From: massimodipierro71 at gmail.com (mdipierro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:32:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1d8cf423-d13e-4b18-b68b-108f85cae5af@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

100,000 hits a day is not a low. I get that some day on my web server
without problem and without one request dropped.

Most frameworks web2py, Django, Pylons can handle that kind of load
since Python is not the bottle neck.
You have to follow some tricks:

1) have the web server serve static pages directly and set the pragma
cache expire to one month
2) cache all pages that do not have forms for at least few minutes
3) avoid database joins
4) use a server with at least 512KB Ram.
5) if you pages are large, use gzip compression

If you develop your app with the web2py framework, you always have the
option to deploy on the Google App Engine. If you can live with their
constraints you should have no scalability problems.

Massimo



On Feb 25, 4:26?am, simn_stv <nany... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> hello people, i have been reading posts on this group for quite some
> time now and many, if not all (actually not all!), seem quite
> interesting.
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> gets pretty busy...
> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.
>
> would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
> able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...
>
> im sorry if my subject was not as clear as probably should be!.
> i guess this should be the best place to ask this sort of thing, hope
> im so right.
>
> Thanks



From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Feb 26 04:33:38 2010
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:33:38 +0100
Subject: ANN: python-ldap-2.3.11
Message-ID: <mailman.269.1267194414.4577.python-announce-list@python.org>

Find a new release of python-ldap:

  http://www.python-ldap.org/

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

Ciao, Michael.

-- 
Michael Str?der
E-Mail: michael at stroeder.com
http://www.stroeder.com

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.3.11 2010-02-26

Changes since 2.3.10:

Lib/
* Fixed LDAP URL parsing with four ? but no real extensions
* ldap.ldapobject.LDAPObject.rename_s() now also accepts arguments
  serverctrls and clientctrls
* Removed untested and undocumented class ldap.ldapobject.SmartLDAPObject
* Removed broken method ldap.ldapobject.LDAPObject.manage_dsa_it()

Modules/
* Make use of LDAP_OPT_X_TLS_NEWCTX only if available in
  OpenLDAP libs used for the build
* Fixed #ifdef-statements for OPT_X_TLS_PROTOCOL_MIN

Doc/
* Some updates and corrections regarding description of use of
  LDAPv3 controls
* Some more descriptions for constants
* Removed comments related to old LaTeX-based documentation system




From lars at gustaebel.de  Fri Feb 26 04:36:28 2010
From: lars at gustaebel.de (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gust=E4bel?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:36:28 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <d14bb4711002260028s498290a2l2616139f5d763d6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
	<d14bb4711002260028s498290a2l2616139f5d763d6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100226093627.GA21027@axis.g33x.de>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 09:28:04AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
> 2010/2/24 Lars Gust?bel <lars at gustaebel.de>
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
> > > I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
> > > TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
> > > search while they have a doc string:
> > >
> > But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class
> > has three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a
> > specific compression method. These three are used internally by the
> > TarFile.open() classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The
> > TarFile.open() method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed
> > to be used. It decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode
> > argument and does many more other high-level things as well.
> >
> 
> I think it would be best to annotate the help string to let people know of
> the facts it is not intended for public usage (or restriction that apply,
> e.g. only for subclassing as you hinted in another post).

Well, then please take the time and open an issue at bugs.python.org, so
that this won't get lost. I will then see what I can do.

-- 
Lars Gust?bel
lars at gustaebel.de

Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, Apache inside.


From tropea at centroserviziterritoriali.com  Fri Feb 26 05:00:37 2010
From: tropea at centroserviziterritoriali.com (Ippolito Nievo)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:00:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: modbus pymodbus
Message-ID: <6a551b81-8085-4a32-a868-64bd869eda08@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi all, someone can help me to pymodbus use? I must send some command
and read aswer from an inverter. It use ModBus RTU.

Thanks a lot


From prasad.chand at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 05:01:59 2010
From: prasad.chand at gmail.com (prasad_chand)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:01:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A more pythonish code
References: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.249.1267120622.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e95775bb-f2c8-4b7c-9da9-99b7d393ffc3@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hi Mr.Posner & nn,

Thank your for your time & effort. I never knew that for...ever
combination even existed. I would keep these insights in mind in the
future.

Thanks again,
Prasad

On Feb 25, 10:57?pm, John Posner <jjpos... at optimum.net> wrote:
> On 2/25/2010 7:23 AM, prasad_chand wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I use python to do simple math problems as a hobby.
>
> > I have made a program that finds the number of divisors(factors) of a
> > given number. I am hoping to improve my language skills, specifically
> > I would like to re-write the function "prime_factors" more gracefully.
> > While the program works right, I am hoping that I could get some input
> > on how to write better python code. I have attached the code below.
>
> > def prime_factors(n):
> > ? ? ?"""
> > ? ? ?Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add (4+1)
> > (1+1) = 10)
>
> > ? ? ?Updates a global dictionary(my_dict) with prime numbers and number
> > of occurances. In the case of 48 {2:4,3:1}
>
> > ? ? ?"""
> > ? ? ?tmp_n = n
>
> A name meaning "temporary value of n" doesn't suggest how it's being
> used in the algorithm. In my implementation (see below), I used the name
> "last_result", which is (a little bit) better.
>
>
>
> > ? ? ?while True:
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?if tmp_n == 1:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?tmp_check = tmp_n
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if tmp_n % x == 0:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?add_to_dict(x)
>
> This function changes the value of a global variable, *my_dict*. Using
> global variables is frowned upon. In this case, it would be much better
> to have the dictionary be local to the *prime_factor* function. After
> you've broken out of the *while* loop, just execute "return my_dict".
>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?tmp_n /= x
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?if tmp_check == tmp_n: #number is prime...so just to add to
> > dict
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?add_to_dict(tmp_n)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break
>
> The only reason that the *tmp_check* variable exists is to test whether
> you fell out of the *for* loop without finding any divisors for *tmp_n*.
> A cleaner approach is to use the optional *else* clause of the *for*
> loop, which is executed only if you didn't *break* out of the loop:
>
> ? ? ?for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
> ? ? ? ? ?if tmp_n % x == 0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?add_to_dict(x)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?tmp_n /= x
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break
> ? ? ?else:
> ? ? ? ? ?# tmp_n is prime...so just to add to dict
> ? ? ? ? ?add_to_dict(tmp_n)
> ? ? ? ? ?break
>
>
>
> > def add_one(x):
> > ? ? ?return x+1
>
> > def mul(x,y):
> > ? ? ?return x * y
>
> > def add_to_dict(p_num):
> > ? ? ?if my_dict.has_key(p_num):
> > ? ? ? ? ?my_dict[p_num] += 1
> > ? ? ?else:
> > ? ? ? ? ?my_dict[p_num] = 1
>
> As poster pruebauno pointed out, using a collections.defaultdict
> eliminates the need for the *add_to_dict* function.
>
>
>
> > my_dict = {}
>
> > prime_factors(135)
> > l = map(add_one,my_dict.values())
> > print reduce(mul, l, 1)
>
> This may seem trivial, but ... don't use the single-character lowercase
> "l" as a variable. It looks too much like the digit "1" -- in some
> fonts, it looks identical!
>
> FWIW, here's my implementation. It's much slower, because it doesn't use
> the square root optimization. It uses another optimization: when a prime
> factor is located, *all* of its occurrences are factored out at the same
> time.
>
> #--------------------------------
> from collections import defaultdict
>
> def prime_factors(n):
> ? ? ?"""Return the prime factors of the given number (>= 2)"""
> ? ? ?if n < 2:
> ? ? ? ? ?print "arg must be >= 2"
> ? ? ? ? ?return
>
> ? ? ?last_result = n
> ? ? ?factors = defaultdict(int)
> ? ? ?next_divisor = 2
>
> ? ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ? ?while last_result % next_divisor == 0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?factors[next_divisor] += 1
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?last_result /= next_divisor
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if last_result == 1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return factors
> ? ? ? ? ?next_divisor += 1
> #--------------------------------
>
> HTH,
> John



From zubin.mithra at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 05:15:53 2010
From: zubin.mithra at gmail.com (Zubin Mithra)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:45:53 +0530
Subject: PyAutoRun
Message-ID: <8e7c74321002260215lc68d617x12ed543563e6ad21@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have been using python for quite some time; however this is the
first python project i have worked on.

The code is hosted at http://github.com/zubin71/PyAutoRun

The code needs re-factoring and feature additions; i have put up a
TODO list there too. It`d be great if anyone could work on this; i
intend to develop this further(with a bit of help) and will request
for its addition into debian and ubuntu repositories, in time.

Also, any kind of code-review, criticism, is also appreciated.
However, it`d be awesome if you could just fork it at github, pull,
modify and push. :)

Have a nice day!

cheers!!!
Zubin


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 26 05:27:51 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:27:51 +0100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
In-Reply-To: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B87A227.50100@sequans.com>

Joan Miller wrote:
> When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> *__doc__*.
>
> Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> get the docstring without import a package
>   
Epydoc, a documentation builder is able to do so with the --parse-only 
option. You could take a look at the code, even grab their parser to 
suit your needs. It may be quite difficult though.

JM


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 26 05:51:05 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:51:05 +1100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> *__doc__*.

Joan, in this message and numerous others you've been following the
widespread convention of using asterisks ?*? to surround text you want
to emphasise.

Normally that's good, but in a programming-language context (or any
other where asterisks have a separate established meaning), it's not a
good idea. In many cases, asterisks signify ?match any number of
arbitrary characters at this position?, which gives a rather different
meaning to what you're writing.

You might be better off using quotes (like '__doc__' or ?__doc__?), or
the reStructuredText syntax for demarcating a special element, backticks
(like `__doc__`). Even they need to be used with care, though, because
they also have specific established meanings (except the typographical
quotes, which is why I use them).

I hope that helps.

> Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> get the docstring without import a package

Why is it you want to do this? Modules should not have unwanted side
effects when imported; if you can't import the module without invoking
those unwanted side effects, the module is poorly written.

That's not to say that such poorly-written modules don't exist. What is
the situation? Perhaps there's a better solution.

-- 
 \      ?Earth gets its price for what Earth gives us.? ?James Russell |
  `\                                                            Lowell |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb 26 05:57:16 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:57:16 +0100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm89e2$o0t$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Joan Miller wrote:

> When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> *__doc__*.
> 
> Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> get the docstring without import a package

Something to get you started:


import ast


def walk(root, stack):
    for node in ast.iter_child_nodes(root):
        if isinstance(node, (ast.FunctionDef, ast.ClassDef)):
            yield node
        stack.append(node)
        for child in walk(node, stack):
            yield child
        del stack[-1]

def get_name(node):
    try:
        return node.name
    except AttributeError:
        return "(%s)" % node.__class__.__name__

def get_path(path):
    return ".".join(get_name(node) for node in path)

def find_docstrings(filename):
    with open(filename) as f:
        module = ast.parse(f.read())
    print filename.center(len(filename) + 2).center(80, "=")
    print ast.get_docstring(module)
    print "=" * 80
    print

    path = []
    for node in walk(module, path):
        s = ast.get_docstring(node)
        if s is not None:
            name = get_path(path + [node])
            print name.center(len(name) + 2).center(80, "-")
            print s
            print


if __name__ == "__main__":
    import sys
    args = sys.argv[1:]
    if args:
        for arg in args:
            find_docstrings(arg)
    else:
        find_docstrings("/usr/lib/python2.6/unittest.py")
        assert "unittest" not in sys.modules

To get an idea of the differences to the import-based approach try analysing 
the following script:

import random

if random.choice([True, False]):
    def f():
        "say hello"
else:
    def f():
        "kill a kitten"

def g():
    "whatever"
del g

Peter


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Fri Feb 26 05:59:05 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:59:05 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm89hq$v79$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <hm4o2o$9il$1 at speranza.aioe.org>, Gib Bogle wrote:

> The only clue is that the machines that her program runs on have
> Python installed, while the one that fails doesn't.

Wouldn?t it be a whole lot simpler to install Python on the bloody machine?



From peloko45 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 06:23:17 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:23:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <76cde733-17b2-41ae-8e59-734e4c5d6fd6@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 26 feb, 10:51, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> writes:
> > When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> > *__doc__*.
>
> Joan, in this message and numerous others you've been following the
> widespread convention of using asterisks ?*? to surround text you want
> to emphasise.
>
> Normally that's good, but in a programming-language context (or any
> other where asterisks have a separate established meaning), it's not a
> good idea. In many cases, asterisks signify ?match any number of
> arbitrary characters at this position?, which gives a rather different
> meaning to what you're writing.
>
> You might be better off using quotes (like '__doc__' or ?__doc__?), or
> the reStructuredText syntax for demarcating a special element, backticks
> (like `__doc__`). Even they need to be used with care, though, because
> they also have specific established meanings (except the typographical
> quotes, which is why I use them).
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> > Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> > get the docstring without import a package
>
> Why is it you want to do this? Modules should not have unwanted side
> effects when imported; if you can't import the module without invoking
> those unwanted side effects, the module is poorly written.
>
> That's not to say that such poorly-written modules don't exist. What is
> the situation? Perhaps there's a better solution.
I use a function in 'setupy.py' to get automatically the description
from the package's docstring, but there is a problem when you import a
module that has to be built by cython (because it tries load a module
that doesn't exists).


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 06:29:51 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:29:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<hm89e2$o0t$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <8889b428-7d1d-44fa-838e-27f2671e9263@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 26 feb, 10:57, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> Joan Miller wrote:
> > When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> > *__doc__*.
>
> > Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> > get the docstring without import a package
>
> Something to get you started:
>
> import ast
>
> def walk(root, stack):
> ? ? for node in ast.iter_child_nodes(root):
> ? ? ? ? if isinstance(node, (ast.FunctionDef, ast.ClassDef)):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? yield node
> ? ? ? ? stack.append(node)
> ? ? ? ? for child in walk(node, stack):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? yield child
> ? ? ? ? del stack[-1]
>
> def get_name(node):
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? return node.name
> ? ? except AttributeError:
> ? ? ? ? return "(%s)" % node.__class__.__name__
>
> def get_path(path):
> ? ? return ".".join(get_name(node) for node in path)
>
> def find_docstrings(filename):
> ? ? with open(filename) as f:
> ? ? ? ? module = ast.parse(f.read())
> ? ? print filename.center(len(filename) + 2).center(80, "=")
> ? ? print ast.get_docstring(module)
> ? ? print "=" * 80
> ? ? print
>
> ? ? path = []
> ? ? for node in walk(module, path):
> ? ? ? ? s = ast.get_docstring(node)
> ? ? ? ? if s is not None:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? name = get_path(path + [node])
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print name.center(len(name) + 2).center(80, "-")
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print s
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
> ? ? import sys
> ? ? args = sys.argv[1:]
> ? ? if args:
> ? ? ? ? for arg in args:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? find_docstrings(arg)
> ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? find_docstrings("/usr/lib/python2.6/unittest.py")
> ? ? ? ? assert "unittest" not in sys.modules
>
> To get an idea of the differences to the import-based approach try analysing
> the following script:
>
> import random
>
> if random.choice([True, False]):
> ? ? def f():
> ? ? ? ? "say hello"
> else:
> ? ? def f():
> ? ? ? ? "kill a kitten"
>
> def g():
> ? ? "whatever"
> del g
>
> Peter

Thanks! What I need there is:

---------
with open(os.path.join(path, package, '__init__.py')) as f:
    module = ast.parse(f.read())

print ast.get_docstring(module)


From sanelson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 06:40:14 2010
From: sanelson at gmail.com (Stephen Nelson-Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:40:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [M2Crypto] Problems uploading to IIS using FTP over SSL
Message-ID: <8383975f-8e86-4783-a69e-67f5acb6c058@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

System:

# rpm -q python m2crypto
python-2.4.3-27.el5
m2crypto-0.16-6.el5.6
# cat /etc/redhat-release

Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.4 (Tikanga)
I have the following method:

def ftp_tarball(aggregation_dir, date_format, ftp_server, ftp_user,
ftp_pass):
  date = datetime.today().strftime(date_format)
  ftp = ftpslib.FTP_TLS()
  ftp.connect(ftp_server)
  ftp.auth_tls()
  ftp.set_pasv(0)
  ftp.login(ftp_user, ftp_pass)
  filename = aggregation_dir + 'zultys-logs_' + date + '.tar.gz'
  short_name = os.path.split(filename)[1]
  tarball = open(filename, 'rb')
  ftp.storbinary('STOR ' + short_name, tarball)
  tarball.close()
  ftp.quit()

This works perfectly with VSFTPD on Linux, with SSL forced for non-
anonymous users.

I try to connect to a supplier's IIS FTP server, and get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/lumberjack", line 45, in ?
    lumberjack.ftp_tarball( aggregation_dir, date_format, ftp_server,
ftp_user, ftp_pass )
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/lumberjack.py", line 93, in
ftp_tarball
    ftp.storbinary('STOR ' + short_name, tarball)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 415, in storbinary
    conn = self.transfercmd(cmd)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 345, in transfercmd
    return self.ntransfercmd(cmd, rest)[0]
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/M2Crypto/ftpslib.py", line
86, in ntransfercmd
    conn, size = FTP.ntransfercmd(self, cmd, rest)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 331, in ntransfercmd
    sock = self.makeport()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 292, in makeport
    resp = self.sendport(host, port)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 256, in sendport
    return self.voidcmd(cmd)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 246, in voidcmd
    return self.voidresp()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 221, in voidresp
    resp = self.getresp()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 216, in getresp
    raise error_perm, resp
ftplib.error_perm: 501 Server cannot accept argument.

A colleague is able to connect using the Filezilla client, configured
as servertype: FTPES - FTP over explicit TLS/SSL setting.

I've not been able to find any further guidnance on the web.

If you've experienced this before, or can see something that I've
obviously got wrong, I'd appreciate your help.

TIA,

S.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 06:43:20 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:43:20 +1300
Subject: PyQt 4.7 installation on Windows
Message-ID: <hm8c4o$rmj$1@speranza.aioe.org>

I've just installed Python 2.6.4 and PyQt 4.7 on my Windows machine, on which I 
was using Python 2.5 and PyQt 4.5.  Now 'from PyQt4 import QtGui'
fails to find the DLL.  Some googling shows that others have encountered the 
same problem, and a workaround is to copy QtGui4.dll (for example) from
D:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\PyQt4\bin
to
D:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\PyQt4
This is obviously not a solution, just a clue.  Another clue is that the Python 
2.5 installation didn't have the \bin subdirectory, instead all the DLLs were in 
PyQt4.  It looks as if for 2.6 the DLLs have been moved but the search path 
hasn't been changed.  sys.path includes D:\python26\lib\site-packages, and the 
Windows PATH environment variable includes D:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\PyQt4\bin

For some reason I have a sense of deja vu.  Can anyone help?


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Fri Feb 26 06:47:33 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:47:33 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm693f$3ev$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
	<hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm65jj$ip7$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm693f$3ev$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm8ccr$2ne$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 25.02.2010 17:39, schrieb Grant Edwards:
> IMO, any sort of "commented out" code left in a program is a
> big mistake.  If the code is soething that does need to stay
> for optional use, then it needs to be properly integrated along
> with logic to control when it's used.

OK, then we are perfectly fine and of course for personal use everyone 
can "comment out" code as they wish.

I'd just hate to see something like "if False" in production level code.


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Fri Feb 26 06:52:13 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:52:13 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm8ccr$2ne$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
	<hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm65jj$ip7$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm693f$3ev$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm8ccr$2ne$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm8clh$2ne$2@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 26.02.2010 12:47, schrieb Michael Rudolf:
> I'd just hate to see something like "if False" in production level code.

And yeah, I've seen it. And worse.


From J.Fine at open.ac.uk  Fri Feb 26 07:00:50 2010
From: J.Fine at open.ac.uk (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:00:50 +0000
Subject: WANTED: Regular expressions for breaking TeX/LaTeX document into
	tokens
In-Reply-To: <mailman.173.1267033751.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <hm34is$k0v$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>
	<mailman.173.1267033751.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm8d5i$22l$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>

Wes James wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:03 AM, Jonathan Fine <J.Fine at open.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Does anyone know of a collection of regular expressions that will break a
>> TeX/LaTeX document into tokens?  Assume that there is no verbatim or other
>> category code changes.
> 
> I'm not sure how this does it, but it might help:
> 
> http://plastex.sourceforge.net/plastex/sect0025.html

Thanks, Wes.  I'm already using PlasTeX

It handles changes of category codes, which makes it over the top for 
what I want to do.  In addition it is a  fairly large complex 
application, and sadly it's not at all easy to use just a part of the 
code base.

There's been more discussion of this thread on comp.text.tex (which is 
where I set the follow-up to).

-- 
Jonathan


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Fri Feb 26 07:04:38 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:04:38 +0100
Subject: (and about tests) Re: Pedantic pickling error after reload?
In-Reply-To: <7uo1aqFitnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net> <7uo1aqFitnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hm8de7$ct5$1@news.albasani.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Am 25.02.10 18:08, schrieb Robert:
>> After (intended/controlled) reload or similar action on a module/class
>> the pickle/cPickle.dump raises errors like
>>
>> pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle <class 'somemodule.SomeClass'>: it's
>> not the same object as somemodule.SomeClass
>>
>>
>> Cause in pickle.py (and cPickle) is a line
>> "if klass is not obj:"
>>
>> Shouldn't it be enough to have "if klass.__name__ != obj.__name__:"
>> there?
>
> No. This would alias classes of same name, but living in different modules.
>
> So at least you need to compare these, too. I'm not sure if there aren't

at that point of comparison the module is already identical 
("klass = getattr(mod, name)")

> even more corner-cases. Python's import-mechanism can sometimes be
> rather foot-shoot-prone.

still don't see a real reason against the mere module+name 
comparison. same issues as during pickle.load. Just the class 
object is renewed (intentionally)

If there are things with nested classes etc, the programmer will 
have to rethink things on a different level: design errors. a 
subject for pychecker/pylint - not for breaking pickle .dump ... ?

>
>> => a bug report/feature request?
>>
>> Classes can change face anyway during pickled state, why should a
>> over-pedantic reaction break things here during runtime?
>> (So far I'd need to walk the object tree in all facets and save against
>> inf loops like pickle himself and re-class things .. )
>
> If anything it's a feature - and I doubt it's really needed. Because
> reloading pickles with intermittend reload-module-operations is to rare
> a case to be really supported IMHO.

well, reloading is the thing which I do most in coding practice :-)
For me its a basic thing like cell proliferation in biology.

In my projects particularly with GUI or with python based http 
serving, I typically support good live module reloadabily even 
actively by some extra little "reload support code" (which fixes 
up the .__class__ etc of living Windows tree, main objects, 
servers ... plus a ?xisinstance? in very few locations) - at least 
I do this for the frequently changing core modules/classes.
This way I feel a edit-run cycle >2x faster when the project is 
getting bigger and bigger, or when developing things out 
interactively. Code is exchanged frequently while living objects 
stay for long ... works well in practice.

Reentering into the same (complex) app state for evolving those 
thousands of small thing (where a full parallel test coverage 
doesn't work out) is a major dev time consuming factor in bigger 
projects - in C, Java projects and even with other dynamic languages.
Dynamic classes are a main reason why I use Python (adopted from 
Lisp long time ago; is that reload thing here possible with Ruby too?)

I typically need just 1 full app reboot on 20..50 edit-run-cycles 
I guess. And just few unit test runs per release. Even for 
Cython/pyximport things I added support for this reload 
edit-run-cycle, because I cannot imagine to dev without this.

Just standard pickle issues stood in the way. And this patch (and 
a failover from cPickle to pickle) did well so far.


>
> Do yourself a favor, write a unit-test that tests the desired behavior
> that makes you alter your code & then reload. This makes the problem go
> away, and you have a more stable development through having more tests :)

this is a comfortable quasi religious theory raised often and 
easily here and there - impracticable and very slow on that fine 
grained code evolution level however. an interesting issue.

I do unit tests for getting stability on a much higher level 
where/when things and functionality are quite wired.
Generally after having compared I cannot confirm that "write 
always tests before development" ideologies pay off in practice.
"Reload > pychecker/pylint > tests" works most effectively with 
Python in my opinion.
And for GUI-development the difference is max.
(min for math algorithms which are well away from data structures/OO)


Another issue regarding tests IMHO is, that one should not waste 
the "validation power" of unit tests too easily for permanent low 
level evolution purposes because its a little like bacteria 
becoming resistent against antibiotics: Code becoming 'fit' 
against artificial tests, but not against real word.
For example in late stage NASA tests of rockets and like, there is 
a validation rule, that when those tests do not go through green, 
there is not just a fix of the (one) cause - screwing until it 
works. the whole thing is at stake.
And the whole test scheme has to be rethought too. ideally, 
whenever such a late test brakes, it requires that a completely 
new higher test has to be invented (in addition) ... until there 
is a minimal set of "fresh green lights" which were red only 
during there own tests, but never red regarding the real test run.

A rule that unit tests are used only near a release or a milestone 
is healthy in that sense I think.
(And a quick edit-(real)run-interact cycle is good for speed)


Robert


From candide at free.invalid  Fri Feb 26 07:29:04 2010
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:04 +0100
Subject: Quoting quotes
Message-ID: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Suppose you have to put into a Python string the following sentence :

The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare

It's easy do it :

>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare"""
The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare

Now, change the sentence to this one :

The play "All's Well That Ends Well"

Using triple single quotes works fine

>>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"


But the first method doesn't run correctly :


>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
                                                   ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>>>


Any comment ?




From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Fri Feb 26 07:29:33 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:33 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
Message-ID: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Hi,

pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project under development. By default, 
untrusted code executed in the sandbox cannot modify the environment (write a 
file, use print or import a module). But you can configure the sandbox to 
choose exactly which features are allowed or not, eg. import sys module and 
read the file /etc/issue.

I think that the project reached the "testable" stage. I launch a new 
challenge: try to escape from the sandbox. I'm unable to write strict rules. 
The goal is to access objects outside the sandbox. Eg. write into a file, 
import a module which is not in the whitelist, modify an object outside the 
sandbox, etc.

To test the sandbox, you have 3 choices:
 - interpreter.py: interactive interpreter executed in the sandbox, use:
    --verbose to display the whole sandbox configuration,
    --features=help to enable help() function,
    --features=regex to enable regex,
    --help to display the help.
 - execfile.py <your_script.py>: execute your script in the sandbox. 
   It has also --features option: use --features=stdout to be able 
   to use the print instruction :-)
 - use directly the Sandbox class: use methods call(), execute()
   or createCallback()

Don't use "with sandbox: ..." because there is known but with local frame 
variables. I think that I will later drop this syntax because of this bug. 
Except of debug_sandbox, I consider that all features are safe and so you can 
enable all features :-)

There is no prize, it's just for fun! But I will add the name of hackers 
founding the best exploits.

pysandbox is not ready for production, it's under heavy development. Anyway I 
*hope* that you will quickly find bugs!

--

Use tests.py to found some examples of how you can escape a sandbox. pysandbox 
is protected against all methods described in tests.py ;-)

See the README file to get more information about how pysandbox is implemented 
and get a list of other Python sandboxes.

pysandbox is currently specific to CPython, and it uses some ugly hacks to 
patch CPython in memory. In the worst case it will crash the pysandbox Python 
process, that's all. I tested it under Linux with Python 2.5 and 2.6. The 
portage to Python3 is not done yet (is someone motivated to write a 
patch? :-)).

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Fri Feb 26 07:35:02 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:35:02 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
Message-ID: <201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le vendredi 26 f?vrier 2010 13:29:33, Victor Stinner a ?crit :
> pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project

... I just forget to explain how to download it.

Website: http://github.com/haypo/pysandbox/

Download the repository using git:
  git clone git://github.com/haypo/pysandbox.git 
or
  git clone http://github.com/haypo/pysandbox.git

Or download the .zip or .tar.gz tarball using the "Download source" button on 
the website.

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 26 07:35:30 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:35:30 +1100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<76cde733-17b2-41ae-8e59-734e4c5d6fd6@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87635k41kd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> I use a function in 'setupy.py' to get automatically the description
> from the package's docstring, but there is a problem when you import a
> module that has to be built by cython (because it tries load a module
> that doesn't exists).

A simple approach (at least, simpler than crawling a parse tree) might
be to store the package description in a separate non-executable file.

A common convention is to have a ?README? text file, written in
reStructuredText for rendering to various output formats as part of the
documentation. You could then have the ?setup.py? program read the
contents of that file and use it (or a slice of it) for the package
description.

-- 
 \                         ?Sometimes I ? no, I don't.? ?Steven Wright |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ivan.python1 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 07:37:10 2010
From: ivan.python1 at gmail.com (=?windows-1252?Q?Ivan_=8Aipo=9A?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:37:10 +0100
Subject: Quoting quotes
In-Reply-To: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B87C076.104@gmail.com>

On 26.2.2010. 13:29, candide wrote:
> Suppose you have to put into a Python string the following sentence :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> It's easy do it :
>
>    
>>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare"""
>>>>          
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> Now, change the sentence to this one :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
> Using triple single quotes works fine
>
>    
>>>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
>>>>          
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
>
> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
>
>
>    
>>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>>>>          
>    File "<stdin>", line 1
>      print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>                                                     ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>    
>>>>          
>
> Any comment ?
>
>
>    
Well, there's no such thing as """" defined in python.



From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Fri Feb 26 07:42:27 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:42:27 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<c8f734d7-f5a7-4ce1-85ae-63e16485095d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100226134227.10c94afe@geekmail.INVALID>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:51:00 -0800 (PST) John Roth
<johnroth1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 24, 1:23?pm, Andreas Waldenburger <use... at geekmail.INVALID>
> wrote:
> > a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code
> > in Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically
> > looks like this:
> >
> > """Function that does stuff"""
> > def doStuff():
> > ? ? while not wise(up):
> > ? ? ? ? yield scorn
> > [snip]
> Is the problem that they've got the docstring in the wrong place,
> or that the comment isn't saying anything that can't be read in
> the method name?
> 
It's the first. I am superficial like that. I just needed a docstring
to illustrate and didn't want to get overly creative.

Not that they don't write redundant docstrings.

And they use mixedCase function/method names.

And they write getters and setters gratuitously.


> The first is easily fixable with a bit of tutorial about how
> a properly placed docstring prints out in various contexts, plus
> a quick script to move the suckers.
> 
Well, I'm not really in a position to tell them that. I'd be kind of
the dork of the office in doing so. Thus my kvetching here. :)

So basically, there is nothing to discuss, really. I just wanted to
remind everyone that there are still morons out there (as in "lacking
esprit and mental flexibility"), make everyone feel better about
themselves (because surely THEY don't do that!) and then carry on.


> The second is going to take more work to get the point across
> that comments that reproduce what the method name says are waste.
> 
They seem to need the reassurance, I guess, so why not let them. ;)

/W


-- 
INVALID? DE!



From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Fri Feb 26 07:42:46 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:42:46 +0100
Subject: Quoting quotes
In-Reply-To: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <201002261342.47003.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le vendredi 26 f?vrier 2010 13:29:04, candide a ?crit :
> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
> 
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>                                                    ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string

Use triple simple single quotes:

>>> print '''"All's Well That Ends Well"'''
"All's Well That Ends Well"

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 08:02:53 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:02:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<76cde733-17b2-41ae-8e59-734e4c5d6fd6@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<87635k41kd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <8777b981-6ca8-49b2-93d8-4b37b2f99b79@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 26 feb, 12:35, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> writes:
> > I use a function in 'setupy.py' to get automatically the description
> > from the package's docstring, but there is a problem when you import a
> > module that has to be built by cython (because it tries load a module
> > that doesn't exists).
>
> A simple approach (at least, simpler than crawling a parse tree) might
> be to store the package description in a separate non-executable file.
>
> A common convention is to have a ?README? text file, written in
> reStructuredText for rendering to various output formats as part of the
> documentation. You could then have the ?setup.py? program read the
> contents of that file and use it (or a slice of it) for the package
> description.
I get the 'README.txt' file to get the long description but I use the
docstring because each package should include a short desciption about
it.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Feb 26 08:43:43 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:43:43 -0500
Subject: Quoting quotes
In-Reply-To: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002260543q1daf794bg1ce4e31af45ae378@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:29 AM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:

> Suppose you have to put into a Python string the following sentence :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> It's easy do it :
>
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare"""
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> Now, change the sentence to this one :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
> Using triple single quotes works fine
>
> >>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
>
> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
>
>
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>  File "<stdin>", line 1
>    print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>                                                   ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
> >>>
>
>
> Any comment ?
>
>
>

You have 4 quotes at the end of the line instead of 3. So the first 3 close
the long quote and then the 4th opens a new quote which doesn't get closed.


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 08:56:56 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:56:56 +0100
Subject: (and about tests) Re: Pedantic pickling error after reload?
In-Reply-To: <hm8de7$ct5$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net> <7uo1aqFitnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<hm8de7$ct5$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <7uq299FrmfU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> at that point of comparison the module is already identical ("klass =
> getattr(mod, name)")

Ah, didn't know that context.

>> even more corner-cases. Python's import-mechanism can sometimes be
>> rather foot-shoot-prone.
>
> still don't see a real reason against the mere module+name comparison.
> same issues as during pickle.load. Just the class object is renewed
> (intentionally)
>
> If there are things with nested classes etc, the programmer will have to
> rethink things on a different level: design errors. a subject for
> pychecker/pylint - not for breaking pickle .dump ... ?

I don't say it necessarily breaks anything. I simply don't know enough 
about it. It might just be that back then, identity was deemed enough to 
check, but you can well argue your case on the python-dev list, 
providing a patch + tests that ensure there is no regression.

> well, reloading is the thing which I do most in coding practice :-)
> For me its a basic thing like cell proliferation in biology.

I simply never do it. It has subtle issues, one of them you found, 
others you say you work around by introducing actual frameworks. But you 
might well forget some corner-cases & suddently chase a chimera you deem 
a bug, that in fact is just an unwanted side-effect of reloading.

And all this extra complexity is only good for the process of actually 
changing the code. It doesn't help you maintaining code quality.

> Reentering into the same (complex) app state for evolving those
> thousands of small thing (where a full parallel test coverage doesn't
> work out) is a major dev time consuming factor in bigger projects - in
> C, Java projects and even with other dynamic languages.
> Dynamic classes are a main reason why I use Python (adopted from Lisp
> long time ago; is that reload thing here possible with Ruby too?)

So what? If this kind of complex, through rather lengthy interactions 
evolved state is the thing you need to work within, that's reason enough 
for me to think about how to automate setting this very state up. That's 
what programming is about - telling a computer to do things it can do, 
which usually means it does them *much* faster & *much* more reliable 
than humans do.

Frankly, I can't be bothered with clicking through layers of GUIs to 
finally reach the destination I'm actually interested in. Let the 
computer do that. And once I teached him how so, I just integrate that 
into my test-suite.


> I typically need just 1 full app reboot on 20..50 edit-run-cycles I
> guess. And just few unit test runs per release. Even for
> Cython/pyximport things I added support for this reload edit-run-cycle,
> because I cannot imagine to dev without this.

Let me assure you - it works :)

for example yesterday, I create a full CRUD-interface for a web-app 
(which is the thing I work on mostly these days) without *once* taking a 
look at the browser. I wrote actions, forms, HTML, and tests along, 
developed the thing ready, asserted certain constraints and error-cases, 
and once finished, fired up the browser - and he saw, it worked!

Yes, I could have written that code on the fly, hitting F5 every few 
seconds/minutes to see if things work out (instead of just running the 
specific tests through nose) - and once I'd be finished, I didn't have 
anything permanent that ensured the functionality over time.

> this is a comfortable quasi religious theory raised often and easily
> here and there - impracticable and very slow on that fine grained code
> evolution level however. an interesting issue.

To me, that's as much as an religious statement often heard by people 
that aren't (really) into test-driven development. By which I personally 
don't mean the variant where one writes tests first, and then code. I 
always develop both in lock-step, sometimes introducing a new feauter 
first in my test as e.g. new arguments, or new calls, and then 
implementing them, but as often the other way round.

The argument is always a variation of "my problem is to complicated, the 
code-base to interviened to make it possible to test this".

I call this a bluff. You might work with a code-base that makes it 
harder than needed to write tests for new functionality. But then, most 
of the time this is a sign of lack of design. Writing with testability 
in mind makes you think twice about how to proper componentize your 
application, clearly separate logic from presentation, validates 
API-design because using the API is immediatly done when writing the 
tests you need, and so forth.

>
> I do unit tests for getting stability on a much higher level where/when
> things and functionality are quite wired.
> Generally after having compared I cannot confirm that "write always
> tests before development" ideologies pay off in practice.
> "Reload > pychecker/pylint > tests" works most effectively with Python
> in my opinion.
> And for GUI-development the difference is max.
> (min for math algorithms which are well away from data structures/OO)

As I said, I mainly do web these days. Which can be considered GUIs as 
well. Testing the HTTP-interface is obviously easier & possible, and 
what I described earlier.

But we also use selenium to test JS-driven interfaces, as now the 
complexity of the interface rises, with all the bells & whistles of 
ajaxiness and whatnot.


> Another issue regarding tests IMHO is, that one should not waste the
> "validation power" of unit tests too easily for permanent low level
> evolution purposes because its a little like bacteria becoming resistent
> against antibiotics: Code becoming 'fit' against artificial tests, but
> not against real word.

That's why I pull in the real world as well. I don't write unit-tests 
only (in fact, I don't particularily like that term, because of it's 
narrow-minded-ness), I write tests for whatever condition I envision 
*or* encounter.

If anything that makes my systems fail is reproducable, it becomes a new 
test - and ensures this thing isn't ever happening again.

Granted, though: there are things you can't really test, especially in 
cases where you interact with different other agents that might behave 
(to you) erratically.

I've done robot developent as well, and of course testing e.g. an 
acceleration ramp dependend on ground conditions isn't something a 
simple unit-test can reproduce.

but then... I've written some, and made sure the robot was in a 
controlled environment when executing them :)

All in all, this argument is *much* to often used as excuse to simply 
not go to any possible length to make your system testable as far as it 
possibly can be. And in my experience, that's further than most people 
think. And as a consequence, quality & stability as well as design of 
the application suffer.

> A rule that unit tests are used only near a release or a milestone is
> healthy in that sense I think.
> (And a quick edit-(real)run-interact cycle is good for speed)

Nope, not in my opinion. Making tests an afterthought may well lead to 
them being written carelessly, not capturing corner-cases you 
encountered while actually developing, and I don't even buy the speed 
argument, as I already said - most of the times, the computer is faster 
than you setting up the environment for testing, how complex ever that 
may be.

Testing is no silver bullet. But it's a rather mighte sword.. :)

Diez


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 09:04:35 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 14:04:35 GMT
Subject: Quoting quotes
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b87d4f3$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:04 +0100, candide wrote:

> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
> 
> 
>>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>                                                    ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>>>>
>>>>
> 
> Any comment ?

Of course not. Quotes can't be nested, so the first time the parser hits 
three quote marks, you have reached the end of the string. You then open 
a new string with a single quote mark, and then fail to close it. Hence 
the EOL while scanning a single-quoted string.

There are many solutions. Here are four:

>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well\""""
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>>> print 'The play "All\'s Well That Ends Well"'
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>>> print 'The play "All' "'" 's Well That Ends Well"'
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"

-- 
Steven


From sanelson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 09:05:18 2010
From: sanelson at gmail.com (Stephen Nelson-Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:05:18 +0000
Subject: [M2Crypto] Problems uploading to IIS using FTP over SSL
Message-ID: <b6131fdc1002260605x6e57f6e6t16ce167754b9af4f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

System:

# rpm -q python m2crypto
python-2.4.3-27.el5
m2crypto-0.16-6.el5.6
# cat /etc/redhat-release

Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.4 (Tikanga)

I have the following method:

def ftp_tarball(aggregation_dir, date_format, ftp_server, ftp_user,
ftp_pass):
  date = datetime.today().strftime(date_format)
  ftp = ftpslib.FTP_TLS()
  ftp.connect(ftp_server)
  ftp.auth_tls()
  ftp.set_pasv(0)
  ftp.login(ftp_user, ftp_pass)
  filename = aggregation_dir + 'zultys-logs_' + date + '.tar.gz'
  short_name = os.path.split(filename)[1]
  tarball = open(filename, 'rb')
  ftp.storbinary('STOR ' + short_name, tarball)
  tarball.close()
  ftp.quit()

This works perfectly with VSFTPD on Linux, with SSL forced for non-
anonymous users.

I try to connect to a supplier's IIS FTP server, and get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/lumberjack", line 45, in ?
    lumberjack.ftp_tarball( aggregation_dir, date_format, ftp_server,
ftp_user, ftp_pass )
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/lumberjack.py", line 93, in
ftp_tarball
    ftp.storbinary('STOR ' + short_name, tarball)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 415, in storbinary
    conn = self.transfercmd(cmd)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 345, in transfercmd
    return self.ntransfercmd(cmd, rest)[0]
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/M2Crypto/ftpslib.py", line
86, in ntransfercmd
    conn, size = FTP.ntransfercmd(self, cmd, rest)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 331, in ntransfercmd
    sock = self.makeport()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 292, in makeport
    resp = self.sendport(host, port)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 256, in sendport
    return self.voidcmd(cmd)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 246, in voidcmd
    return self.voidresp()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 221, in voidresp
    resp = self.getresp()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 216, in getresp
    raise error_perm, resp
ftplib.error_perm: 501 Server cannot accept argument.

A colleague is able to connect using the Filezilla client, configured
as servertype: FTPES - FTP over explicit TLS/SSL setting.

I've not been able to find any further guidance on the web.

If you've experienced this before, or can see something that I've
obviously got wrong, I'd appreciate your help.

TIA,

S.


From edreamleo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 09:15:26 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:15:26 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7.1 released
Message-ID: <nqlfo5h08mq4rntifqfh2n2m8gt2o3qprv@4ax.com>

Leo 4.7.1 final is now available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106

Leo 4.7.1 fixes a dangerous bug in Leo 4.7. When converting file-like
sentinels to thin-like sentinels in an external file, Leo now issues a
warning and sets the corresponding @file node dirty. This ensures that
Leo will write the converted external file and .leo file together,
making it impossible to lose data.

Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more.
See:
http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

The highlights of Leo 4.7:
--------------------------

- Leo now uses the simplest possible internal data model.
  This is the so-called "one-node" world.
- Leo supports Python 3.x.
- Leo requires Python 2.6 or above.
- Several important improvements in file handling.
    - Leo converts @file nodes to @thin nodes automatically.
    - Leo creates a 'Recovered Nodes' node to hold data that
      otherwise might be lost due to clone conflicts.
    - @auto-rst now works much more reliably reliably.
    - Leo no longer supports @noref trees.  Such trees are not
      reliable in cooperative environments.
- A new Windows installer.
- Many other features, including new command line options and new
plugins.
- Dozens of bug fixes.

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Forum:    http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
Bzr:      http://code.launchpad.net/leo-editor/
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Fri Feb 26 09:22:19 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:22:19 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uog65F5vuU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.254.1267127876.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uog65F5vuU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <B9F28AD1-D3E3-4285-B7B6-7CE7DDE6A208@roalddevries.nl>

Hi Luca,

On Feb 26, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Luca wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>> Perhaps you could use a different extension, eg ".pyn", so existing
>> ".py" files are handled as-is but ".pyn" files are read through a
>> translator.
>
> This could be a good idea... especially since i could make my own  
> extension since we are talking of a special-purpose application that  
> only incorporates python as a library.

I would suggest to do choose the same strategy as 'from __future__  
import ...' takes, which does similar things and limits them to the  
module it is used in. I would be curious to hear about your results.

Kind regards, Roald




From gslindstrom at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 09:23:54 2010
From: gslindstrom at gmail.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:23:54 -0600
Subject: PyCon 2011 - Call for Tutorial Volunteers
Message-ID: <a9f39a411002260623g53aa56che00651d7c40e1713@mail.gmail.com>

PyCon 2010 is complete and plans for PyCon 2011 in Atlanta have already
begun!  The main conference will once again be proceeded by two days of
tutorials.  There was quite a bit of feedback from students and teachers
this year that we want to incorporate in next years classes.  In order to do
this, more people need to get involved; why not you?  You do not need to
have any experience in organizing a national conference, just the desire to
help out.  There is plenty to do from tasks that take a couple of hours to
others that span months and you will get help with everything.  The areas we
will be working on are:

* Proposals -  help with the call for tutorial proposals and selection of
classes
* Room Assignments - help get the selected tutorials assigned to classrooms
and monitor attendance numbers
* Notes - work with teachers to get class notes printed and distributed
* Program Guide - work with conference organizers to get tutorial
information in the conference guide
* Feedback - Work to get meaningful feedback from students and teachers (so
PyCon 2012 is even better!)
* Payments - collect information so our teachers get paid
* Runner - On tutorial days at the conference, make yourself available to do
whatever needs to be done.

It's a lot of work -- and a lot of fun-- to put on tutorials for PyCon each
year.  You won't get paid, but you will get one of the snappy "staff" tee
shirts when you attend PyCon and you get to work with an incredibly
dedicated group of volunteers.

Interested?  Please drop a note at pycon-tutorials at python.org and let us
know.

Thanks,

Greg Lindstrom
Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2011 (Atlanta)
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From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 26 09:37:43 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:37:43 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>

>> pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project

Out of curiosity, the python sandbox behind google app engine is open source?
If so, how is it different from your project, if not, anyone knows if
it will be in the future?

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From python at bdurham.com  Fri Feb 26 09:50:08 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:50:08 -0500
Subject: Possible to import from a cStringIO file object vs. file on disk?
Message-ID: <1267195808.16415.1362063523@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Is it possible to import from a cStringIO file object (containing
compiled byte code) vs. a physical file on disk?

I'm thinking that this is possible, given Python's ability to
import from zip files, but I'm not sure where to look next.

Thank you,
Malcolm
-------------- next part --------------
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 26 09:50:25 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:50:25 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <20100226134227.10c94afe@geekmail.INVALID>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<c8f734d7-f5a7-4ce1-85ae-63e16485095d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<20100226134227.10c94afe@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <4B87DFB1.1080201@sequans.com>

Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:51:00 -0800 (PST) John Roth
> <johnroth1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> On Feb 24, 1:23 pm, Andreas Waldenburger <use... at geekmail.INVALID>
>> wrote:
>>     
>>> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code
>>> in Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically
>>> looks like this:
>>>
>>> """Function that does stuff"""
>>> def doStuff():
>>>     while not wise(up):
>>>         yield scorn
>>> [snip]
>>>       
>> Is the problem that they've got the docstring in the wrong place,
>> or that the comment isn't saying anything that can't be read in
>> the method name?
>>
>>     
> It's the first. I am superficial like that. I just needed a docstring
> to illustrate and didn't want to get overly creative.
>
> Not that they don't write redundant docstrings.
>
> And they use mixedCase function/method names.
>   
and ? whatIsTheProblem ?
PEP8 is one style guide, not *the* style guide. There is neither 
technical nor readability issue with mixedCase, classes in PEP 8 using 
MixedCase. The thing is they had to chose one preference for the methods 
and they choose lower_case. Fine, but it's still a matter of preference 
(or arbitrary decision). Since you don't write code for the standard 
library, you can use any other naming convention.
You've may have guessed it, I am using mixedCase method names, and I 
tell you, you cannot compare this in any way with their dumb usage of 
doctrings you've shown above.

That being said, yoru OP's still soemhow funny, I would have shot them 
on sight :-)

JM



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb 26 10:04:04 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:04:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Quoting quotes
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4b87d4f3$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hm8nt4$3si$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-26, Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:04 +0100, candide wrote:
>
>> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
>> 
>> 
>>>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>>     print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>>                                                    ^
>> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> 
>> Any comment ?
>
> Of course not. Quotes can't be nested, so the first time the
> parser hits three quote marks, you have reached the end of the
> string. You then open a new string with a single quote mark,
> and then fail to close it. Hence the EOL while scanning a
> single-quoted string.

IMO, the error message is misleading to many people, since in
many/most contexts the term "single-quoted" refers to this:

  'here is a single quoted string'

And not this:

  "this is a double-quoted string"

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! And then we could sit
                                  at               on the hoods of cars at
                               visi.com            stop lights!


From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Fri Feb 26 10:04:57 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:04:57 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le vendredi 26 f?vrier 2010 15:37:43, Daniel Fetchinson a ?crit :
> >> pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project
> 
> Out of curiosity, the python sandbox behind google app engine is open
>  source? If so, how is it different from your project, if not, anyone knows
>  if it will be in the future?

I don't know this project. Do you have the URL of the project home page? Is it 
the "safelite.py" project?

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Feb 26 10:09:36 2010
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>

On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
> 
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
>     while not wise(up):
>         yield scorn
> 
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
> 
> /W
> 

Reminiscent of:

mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX

And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:

; This is a comment



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/



From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:32:48 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:32:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 3:15?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> > solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> > First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> > but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> > related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> > #Module main.py
> > from A import *
>
> > class App:
> > ? ? ?def sperg(self):
> > ? ? ? ? ? self.a = A()
>
> > app = App()
> > [main loop and such]
> > ? -----------------------------
> > # Module A.py
> > import main
> > class Foo:
> > ? ? ? ?Selves=[]
> > ? ? ? def __init__(self):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Foo.Selves.append(self)
> > ? ? ? @staticmethod
> > ? ? ? def chum_callback(nType, nP):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # Need to access function / data in app instance
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? app.sperg(nP)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # Need to access func data in Foo
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
> > ? ? ? def getSelf(nP):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return self.Selves[nP]
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> > get at them from the staticmethod.
> > What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
> > the A.py module.
>
> > How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> > with the class instance in the constructor)?
> > Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> > Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>
> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
> utilized by ctypes?
>
> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>
> Diez

__main__.K   << *facepalm* should of tried that!

Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:

        #Function wrapper
        A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int,  \
				POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)

        #DLL call to register the local callback function
        DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)

    class A:
        #Local callback function
	@staticmethod
	def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
             print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
             print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
             print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
             print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
             pass

I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
methods / properties.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 10:41:27 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:41:27 +0100
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
> On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de>  wrote:
>> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
>>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>>
>>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
>>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
>>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>>
>>> #Module main.py
>>> from A import *
>>
>>> class App:
>>>       def sperg(self):
>>>            self.a = A()
>>
>>> app = App()
>>> [main loop and such]
>>>    -----------------------------
>>> # Module A.py
>>> import main
>>> class Foo:
>>>         Selves=[]
>>>        def __init__(self):
>>>                  Foo.Selves.append(self)
>>>        @staticmethod
>>>        def chum_callback(nType, nP):
>>>                  # Need to access function / data in app instance
>>>                  app.sperg(nP)
>>>                  # Need to access func data in Foo
>>>                  # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
>>>                  self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>>
>>>        def getSelf(nP):
>>>                  return self.Selves[nP]
>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
>>> get at them from the staticmethod.
>>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
>>> the A.py module.
>>
>>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
>>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
>>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>>
>>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>>
>> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
>> utilized by ctypes?
>>
>> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
>> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>>
>> Diez
>
> __main__.K<<  *facepalm* should of tried that!
>
> Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
> local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
> are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>
>          #Function wrapper
>          A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int,  \
> 				POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>
>          #DLL call to register the local callback function
>          DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>
>      class A:
>          #Local callback function
> 	@staticmethod
> 	def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
>               print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
>               print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
>               print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
>               print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
>               pass
>
> I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
> say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
> functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
> methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
> way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
> 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
> still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
> methods / properties.

The above code can't work with self, because you use

  A.expCallback

which at best can of course be a classmethod.

You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this

  a = A()
  DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)

Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of 
static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some* 
callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you 
like, including bound methods.

Diez


From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:42:32 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:42:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<4b877470$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a1ac1b93-7c2f-4975-bb68-852f0737055d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 1:12?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:07:55 -0800, darnzen wrote:
> > Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> > solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> > First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks, but
> > because of this, I'm losing instance info.
> [...]
> > How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along with
> > the class instance in the constructor)? Is there another way to do this
> > that's not such a hack?
>
> Pass the instance explicitly:
>
> >>> class K(object):
>
> ... ? ? @staticmethod
> ... ? ? def static(self, x, y):
> ... ? ? ? ? print self, x, y
> ...>>> k = K()
> >>> k.static(k, 1, 2)
>
> <__main__.K object at 0xb7c2544c> 1 2
>
> --
> Steven

Unfortunately, since the callback is from the DLL which I didn't
write, I can not change what is passed to the function. Also, the DLL
has no idea about my local namespace. The DLL typically will pass back
two integers (which I can set the values of when I register the
callback), and some data. Currently Im' using these integers as keys
in a local dict where I'm storing the instances.

I suppose I could use the integers to store the high and low order
bytes of a pointer to the instance, but not sure how to do that in
Python (would be easy in c/c++). Also, I'm not sure how python memory
management works, if it will move objects around and make things
buggy. Also, that is definitely a hack and isn't very 'pythonesque'


From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:47:10 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:47:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <feb0001d-cd3f-4ce8-813f-74c10e10ee89@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 9:41?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> ?wrote:
> >> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>
> >>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> >>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> >>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> >>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> >>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> >>> #Module main.py
> >>> from A import *
>
> >>> class App:
> >>> ? ? ? def sperg(self):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.a = A()
>
> >>> app = App()
> >>> [main loop and such]
> >>> ? ?-----------------------------
> >>> # Module A.py
> >>> import main
> >>> class Foo:
> >>> ? ? ? ? Selves=[]
> >>> ? ? ? ?def __init__(self):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Foo.Selves.append(self)
> >>> ? ? ? ?@staticmethod
> >>> ? ? ? ?def chum_callback(nType, nP):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Need to access function / data in app instance
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?app.sperg(nP)
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Need to access func data in Foo
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
> >>> ? ? ? ?def getSelf(nP):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return self.Selves[nP]
>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> >>> get at them from the staticmethod.
> >>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
> >>> the A.py module.
>
> >>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> >>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
> >>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> >>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>
> >> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
> >> utilized by ctypes?
>
> >> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
> >> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > __main__.K<< ?*facepalm* should of tried that!
>
> > Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
> > local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
> > are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?#Function wrapper
> > ? ? ? ? ?A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int, ?\
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?#DLL call to register the local callback function
> > ? ? ? ? ?DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>
> > ? ? ?class A:
> > ? ? ? ? ?#Local callback function
> > ? ?@staticmethod
> > ? ?def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pass
>
> > I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
> > say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
> > functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
> > methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
> > way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
> > 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
> > still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
> > methods / properties.
>
> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>
> ? A.expCallback
>
> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>
> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>
> ? a = A()
> ? DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>
> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
> like, including bound methods.
>
> Diez

This was originally how my code was set up, invoking with the bound
methods, but it didn't work (crashing and bizzaro errors) and I was
pulling my hair out. Then I read the documentation and changed it to
static methods and everything started working. Believe me, I totally
understand how using bound methods would make this problem go away.


From aioe.org at technicalbloke.com  Fri Feb 26 10:52:49 2010
From: aioe.org at technicalbloke.com (r0g)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:52:49 +0000
Subject: Offline windows registry access on *nix platforms.
Message-ID: <hm8qoo$ti3$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Hi Everybody,

I do a fair bit of programming in Python and I have to say I find perl a
little intimidating right now as I don't have a lot of experience with
it however its the only language I have found that seemed to have a
library for what I need right now: Win32::Registry (or maybe
Win32::TieRegistry)

I way to read/search for windows registry keys from offline hive files
e.g. NTUSER.DAT on *nix platforms, in my case Ubuntu linux - nothing
more advanced than that.

Given that I only need this functionality, performance is a not issue
and I'm very comfortable in Python I thought I might try and write a
pair of wrapper functions - one to check the existence of a key, one to
return a keys values.

Sadly though I have fallen at the first hurdle, I get "OS unsupported"
when I type "install Win32::Registry" into CPAN so I guess it's windows
only :(

Anyone know of an open source module/library that can do what I want?
Ideally Python or Perl, but I suppose any free language I can compile or
easily bundle/distribute would do.

Alternatively if anyone knows of a *nix app that can decode a windows
registry into a flat text file?

At a push I could compile something that can do this on windows and run
it via wine but I'd really like to avoid that if I can.

Suggestions & pointers greatly appreciated,

Roger.


From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:57:38 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:57:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 9:41?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> ?wrote:
> >> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>
> >>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> >>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> >>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> >>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> >>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> >>> #Module main.py
> >>> from A import *
>
> >>> class App:
> >>> ? ? ? def sperg(self):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.a = A()
>
> >>> app = App()
> >>> [main loop and such]
> >>> ? ?-----------------------------
> >>> # Module A.py
> >>> import main
> >>> class Foo:
> >>> ? ? ? ? Selves=[]
> >>> ? ? ? ?def __init__(self):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Foo.Selves.append(self)
> >>> ? ? ? ?@staticmethod
> >>> ? ? ? ?def chum_callback(nType, nP):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Need to access function / data in app instance
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?app.sperg(nP)
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Need to access func data in Foo
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
> >>> ? ? ? ?def getSelf(nP):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return self.Selves[nP]
>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> >>> get at them from the staticmethod.
> >>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
> >>> the A.py module.
>
> >>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> >>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
> >>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> >>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>
> >> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
> >> utilized by ctypes?
>
> >> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
> >> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > __main__.K<< ?*facepalm* should of tried that!
>
> > Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
> > local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
> > are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?#Function wrapper
> > ? ? ? ? ?A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int, ?\
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?#DLL call to register the local callback function
> > ? ? ? ? ?DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>
> > ? ? ?class A:
> > ? ? ? ? ?#Local callback function
> > ? ?@staticmethod
> > ? ?def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pass
>
> > I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
> > say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
> > functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
> > methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
> > way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
> > 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
> > still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
> > methods / properties.
>
> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>
> ? A.expCallback
>
> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>
> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>
> ? a = A()
> ? DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>
> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
> like, including bound methods.
>
> Diez

Thinking about it some more, I believe I understand why it has to be
staticfunction. To use an bound method would require the wrapper to
include a reference to the instance as follows:

A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(A), c_int, c_int,  \
                                POINTER(Data_s))(a.Callback)

Since a = A(); a.foo() is really A.foo(self). The problem here is that
A is not a ctypes object and I can't change what arguments the DLL
uses in the callback in any case. Rewording my thoughts: a bound
method callback would require 'self' to be the first argument. I can
not make the DLL include 'self' as it doesn't know anything about the
objects in my program. Since I can't pass 'self', it has to be a
staticmethod.


From jlconlin at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:58:14 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
Message-ID: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
I also need platform independence without having to install a database
and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

Thanks,
Jeremy


From willia2501 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:04:55 2010
From: willia2501 at gmail.com (William Lohrmann)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:04:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Quoting quotes
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <bda4748c-49ec-4383-81c1-7baaae567180@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 26 Feb, 13:29, candide <cand... at free.invalid> wrote:
> Suppose you have to put into a Python string the following sentence :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> It's easy do it :
>
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare"""
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> Now, change the sentence to this one :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
> Using triple single quotes works fine
>
> >>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
>
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1
> ? ? print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>
>
>
> Any comment ?

The best thing would be to backslash the single quote: print 'The play
"All\'s Well That Ends Well"'


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 11:08:46 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:08:46 +0100
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 16:57, schrieb darnzen:
> On Feb 26, 9:41 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de>  wrote:
>> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de>    wrote:
>>>> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>>
>>>>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
>>>>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>>
>>>>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
>>>>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
>>>>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>>
>>>>> #Module main.py
>>>>> from A import *
>>
>>>>> class App:
>>>>>        def sperg(self):
>>>>>             self.a = A()
>>
>>>>> app = App()
>>>>> [main loop and such]
>>>>>     -----------------------------
>>>>> # Module A.py
>>>>> import main
>>>>> class Foo:
>>>>>          Selves=[]
>>>>>         def __init__(self):
>>>>>                   Foo.Selves.append(self)
>>>>>         @staticmethod
>>>>>         def chum_callback(nType, nP):
>>>>>                   # Need to access function / data in app instance
>>>>>                   app.sperg(nP)
>>>>>                   # Need to access func data in Foo
>>>>>                   # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
>>>>>                   self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>>
>>>>>         def getSelf(nP):
>>>>>                   return self.Selves[nP]
>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
>>>>> get at them from the staticmethod.
>>>>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
>>>>> the A.py module.
>>
>>>>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
>>>>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
>>>>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>>
>>>>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>>
>>>> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
>>>> utilized by ctypes?
>>
>>>> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
>>>> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>>
>>>> Diez
>>
>>> __main__.K<<    *facepalm* should of tried that!
>>
>>> Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
>>> local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
>>> are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>>
>>>           #Function wrapper
>>>           A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int,  \
>>>                             POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>>
>>>           #DLL call to register the local callback function
>>>           DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>>
>>>       class A:
>>>           #Local callback function
>>>     @staticmethod
>>>     def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
>>>                print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
>>>                print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
>>>                print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
>>>                print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
>>>                pass
>>
>>> I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
>>> say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
>>> functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
>>> methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
>>> way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
>>> 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
>>> still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
>>> methods / properties.
>>
>> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>>
>>    A.expCallback
>>
>> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>>
>> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>>
>>    a = A()
>>    DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>>
>> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
>> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
>> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
>> like, including bound methods.
>>
>> Diez
>
> Thinking about it some more, I believe I understand why it has to be
> staticfunction. To use an bound method would require the wrapper to
> include a reference to the instance as follows:
>
> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(A), c_int, c_int,  \
>                                  POINTER(Data_s))(a.Callback)
>
> Since a = A(); a.foo() is really A.foo(self). The problem here is that
> A is not a ctypes object and I can't change what arguments the DLL
> uses in the callback in any case. Rewording my thoughts: a bound
> method callback would require 'self' to be the first argument. I can
> not make the DLL include 'self' as it doesn't know anything about the
> objects in my program. Since I can't pass 'self', it has to be a
> staticmethod.

No, that's not true. A bound method implictly knows about it self, and 
it's a callable.

What I guess is that you did the same mistake I did when I created that 
example - namely, not keeping a refernce to the bound method around. 
Ctypes will then garbage-collect the callback, which of course leads to 
all kinds of troubles.

Try this:

  a = A()
  # keep this around
  bound_m = a.expCallback
  DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)

Diez


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Feb 26 11:11:15 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:11:15 -0500
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002260811r6ba6da85qca41a29b503ceaa0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy
>


Python has SQLite 3 built-in and there are wrappers for MySQL and PostgreSQL
on all major platforms. Any one of them will work- databases have the
advantage that they're stored on the disk so you don't have all of it in
memory simultaneously.


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From aioe.org at technicalbloke.com  Fri Feb 26 11:14:50 2010
From: aioe.org at technicalbloke.com (r0g)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:14:50 +0000
Subject: Offline windows registry access on *nix platforms.
References: <hm8qoo$ti3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm8s22$18l$1@speranza.aioe.org>

r0g wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
> 
> I do a fair bit of programming in Python and I have to say I find perl a
> little intimidating right now as I don't have a lot of experience with
> it however its the only language I have found that seemed to have a
> library for what I need right now: Win32::Registry (or maybe
> Win32::TieRegistry)
> 
> I way to read/search for windows registry keys from offline hive files
> e.g. NTUSER.DAT on *nix platforms, in my case Ubuntu linux - nothing
> more advanced than that.


Actually scrap that, just found "Parse::Win32Registry", happy days! :)

Roger.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 11:20:35 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:20:35 +0100
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7uqamjFd2vU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 17:08, schrieb Diez B. Roggisch:
> Am 26.02.10 16:57, schrieb darnzen:
>> On Feb 26, 9:41 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
>>> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
>>>>> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>>>
>>>>>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
>>>>>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>>>
>>>>>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
>>>>>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
>>>>>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>>>
>>>>>> #Module main.py
>>>>>> from A import *
>>>
>>>>>> class App:
>>>>>> def sperg(self):
>>>>>> self.a = A()
>>>
>>>>>> app = App()
>>>>>> [main loop and such]
>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>> # Module A.py
>>>>>> import main
>>>>>> class Foo:
>>>>>> Selves=[]
>>>>>> def __init__(self):
>>>>>> Foo.Selves.append(self)
>>>>>> @staticmethod
>>>>>> def chum_callback(nType, nP):
>>>>>> # Need to access function / data in app instance
>>>>>> app.sperg(nP)
>>>>>> # Need to access func data in Foo
>>>>>> # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
>>>>>> self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>>>
>>>>>> def getSelf(nP):
>>>>>> return self.Selves[nP]
>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
>>>>>> get at them from the staticmethod.
>>>>>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app
>>>>>> instance in
>>>>>> the A.py module.
>>>
>>>>>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
>>>>>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
>>>>>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>>>
>>>>> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is
>>>>> the DLL
>>>>> utilized by ctypes?
>>>
>>>>> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would
>>>>> give
>>>>> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>>>
>>>>> Diez
>>>
>>>> __main__.K<< *facepalm* should of tried that!
>>>
>>>> Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
>>>> local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
>>>> are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>>>
>>>> #Function wrapper
>>>> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int, \
>>>> POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>>>
>>>> #DLL call to register the local callback function
>>>> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>>>
>>>> class A:
>>>> #Local callback function
>>>> @staticmethod
>>>> def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
>>>> print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
>>>> print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
>>>> print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
>>>> print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
>>>> pass
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
>>>> say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
>>>> functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
>>>> methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
>>>> way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
>>>> 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
>>>> still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
>>>> methods / properties.
>>>
>>> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>>>
>>> A.expCallback
>>>
>>> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>>>
>>> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>>>
>>> a = A()
>>> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>>>
>>> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
>>> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
>>> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
>>> like, including bound methods.
>>>
>>> Diez
>>
>> Thinking about it some more, I believe I understand why it has to be
>> staticfunction. To use an bound method would require the wrapper to
>> include a reference to the instance as follows:
>>
>> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(A), c_int, c_int, \
>> POINTER(Data_s))(a.Callback)
>>
>> Since a = A(); a.foo() is really A.foo(self). The problem here is that
>> A is not a ctypes object and I can't change what arguments the DLL
>> uses in the callback in any case. Rewording my thoughts: a bound
>> method callback would require 'self' to be the first argument. I can
>> not make the DLL include 'self' as it doesn't know anything about the
>> objects in my program. Since I can't pass 'self', it has to be a
>> staticmethod.
>
> No, that's not true. A bound method implictly knows about it self, and
> it's a callable.
>
> What I guess is that you did the same mistake I did when I created that
> example - namely, not keeping a refernce to the bound method around.
> Ctypes will then garbage-collect the callback, which of course leads to
> all kinds of troubles.
>
> Try this:
>
> a = A()
> # keep this around
> bound_m = a.expCallback
> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)

AAAAHHRG, same error again.

Of course, use

DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, bound_m)

because the bound method changes with each time you create it.

Sorry for the confusion.

Diez


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 26 11:29:51 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:29:51 -0800
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=E2=80=94Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002260829m3c3da337pe0e8c39dbbe3a1df@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

If you won't be using the SQL features of the database, `shelve` might
be another option; from what I can grok, I sounds like a dictionary
stored mostly on disk rather than entirely in RAM (not 100% sure
though):
http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html

It's in the std lib and supports several native dbm libraries for its
backend; one of them should almost always be present.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From lbolla at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:29:54 2010
From: lbolla at gmail.com (lbolla)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:29:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ee4f429d-c08d-4517-ad8c-ee6406c63b1e@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 3:58?pm, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy

Maybe shelve would be enough for your needs?
http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Fri Feb 26 11:34:59 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:34:59 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<c8f734d7-f5a7-4ce1-85ae-63e16485095d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<20100226134227.10c94afe@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.275.1267195840.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20100226173459.2b376405@geekmail.INVALID>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:50:25 +0100 Jean-Michel Pichavant
<jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> 
> > And they use mixedCase function/method names.
> >   
> and ? whatIsTheProblem ?

Thanks for proving my point. ;)

No seriously though: Let it go. I wasn't being serious. As long as it
works and I don't have to work with it, I don't care how anybody writes
their code.

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Fri Feb 26 11:39:07 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:39:07 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
wrote:

> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> > [stuff]
> 
> Reminiscent of:
> 
> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
> 
Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
though.

> And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:
> 
> ; This is a comment
> 
I hope it was in a tutorial-situation. Or maybe it was written by one of
those "ironic" programmers?

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From roy at panix.com  Fri Feb 26 11:39:51 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:39:51 -0500
Subject: Dictionary or Database‹Please advise
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article 
<891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
 Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeremy

This is a very vague question, so it'll get a vague answer :-)

If you have so much data that you're running into memory problems, then 
yes, storing the data externally in an disk-resident database seems like a 
reasonable idea.

Once you get into databases, platform independence will be an issue.  There 
are many databases out there to pick from.  If you want something which 
will work on a lot of platforms, a reasonable place to start looking is 
MySQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python support, and 
there's lots of people on the net who know it and are willing to give help 
and advice.

Databases have a bit of a learning curve.  If you've never done any 
database work, don't expect to download MySql (or any other database) this 
afternoon and be up and running by tomorrow.

Whatever database you pick, you're almost certainly going to end up having 
to install it wherever you install your application.  There's no such thing 
as a universally available database that you can expect to be available 
everywhere.

Have fun!


From roy at panix.com  Fri Feb 26 11:47:28 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:47:28 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <eq4l57-okf2.ln1 at ozzie.tundraware.com>,
 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:

> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> > Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> > this:
> > 
> > """Function that does stuff"""
> > def doStuff():
> >     while not wise(up):
> >         yield scorn
> > 
> > Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> > authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
> > 
> > /W
> > 
> 
> Reminiscent of:
> 
> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
> 
> And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:
> 
> ; This is a comment

OK, if we're going to do this, how about this one, that I just found 
yesterday in some production C++ code.  I'm so glad somebody took the time 
to explain to me what p7 through p9 are.  I never would have figured it out 
otherwise.

/**
 * Tracing facility. Writes the message to the specified output stream.
 * If output stream is NULL, writes the message to the process log.
 *
 * @param  msg_id  The message id to use for lookup.
 * @param  ostr    The output stream.
 * @param  p1      The first substition parameter.
 * @param  p2      The second substition parameter.
 * @param  p3      The third substition parameter.
 * @param  p4      The fourth substition parameter.
 * @param  p5      The fifth substition parameter.
 * @param  p6      The sixth substition parameter.
 * @param  p7      The seventh substition parameter.
 * @param  p8      The eigth substition parameter.
 * @param  p9      The ninth substition parameter.
*/


From ricaraoz at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:49:55 2010
From: ricaraoz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_Ar=E1oz?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:49:55 -0300
Subject: Exception in pydoc
Message-ID: <4B87FBB3.8090107@gmail.com>

I'm developing an in house app. Many coders here are not fluent in
english, so docstrings must be in Spanish in spite of recommendations
that docstrings better be in English.
When I use accented characters (in this case an '?') in my docstrings I
get :
>>> help('OpMejoraBizobj')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<input>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python25\lib\site.py", line 346, in __call__
    return pydoc.help(*args, **kwds)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1645, in __call__
    self.help(request)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1687, in help
    elif request: doc(request, 'Help on %s:')
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1481, in doc
    pager(title % desc + '\n\n' + text.document(object, name))
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 324, in document
    if inspect.ismodule(object): return self.docmodule(*args)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1072, in docmodule
    contents.append(self.document(value, key, name))
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 325, in document
    if inspect.isclass(object): return self.docclass(*args)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1208, in docclass
    contents = '\n'.join(contents)
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position
115: ordinal not in range(128)

The file's first two lines are :
"""
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
"""

Does pydoc only deal with ASCII?





From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:55:32 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:55:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <b4f33c12-c5d2-4840-a5aa-4954926c4832@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Andreas Waldenburger wrote:

> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
> ? ? while not wise(up):
> ? ? ? ? yield scorn
>
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?

Their unit tests are just as complete, illustrative, and
administratively sanctioned, right?

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 26 11:59:56 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:59:56 -0500
Subject: Possible to import from a cStringIO file object vs. file on disk?
In-Reply-To: <1267195808.16415.1362063523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1267195808.16415.1362063523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <hm8un4$amq$1@dough.gmane.org>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Is it possible to import from a cStringIO file object (containing
> compiled byte code) vs. a physical file on disk?
>  
> I'm thinking that this is possible, given Python's ability to import
> from zip files, but I'm not sure where to look next.
>  
> Thank you,
> Malcolm
> 

You'll need to write a custom importer. PEP 302 contains the necessary
details.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Feb 26 12:10:12 2010
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:10:12 -0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID><eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <hm8v9k$77g$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>


"Andreas Waldenburger" <usenot at geekmail.INVALID> wrote in message 
news:20100226173907.5567609f at geekmail.INVALID...

>> Reminiscent of:
>>
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
> wouldn't you say?

Depends on what assembler you're used to. I certainly find having the
operands that way round confusing.




From jlconlin at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 12:31:22 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:31:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 9:29?am, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> > the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> > using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> > before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> > I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> > and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> > something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
>
> If you won't be using the SQL features of the database, `shelve` might
> be another option; from what I can grok, I sounds like a dictionary
> stored mostly on disk rather than entirely in RAM (not 100% sure
> though):http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html
>
> It's in the std lib and supports several native dbm libraries for its
> backend; one of them should almost always be present.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Shelve looks like an interesting option, but what might pose an issue
is that I'm reading the data from a disk instead of memory.  I didn't
mention this in my original post, but I was hoping that by using a
database it would be more memory efficient in storing data in RAM so I
wouldn't have to read from (or swap to/from) disk.  Would using the
shelve package make reading/writing data from disk faster since it is
in a binary format?

Jeremy


From darcy at druid.net  Fri Feb 26 12:57:50 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:57:50 -0500
Subject: Dictionary or Database_Please advise
In-Reply-To: <roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <20100226125750.45f2406a.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:39:51 -0500
Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> Once you get into databases, platform independence will be an issue.  There 
> are many databases out there to pick from.  If you want something which 
> will work on a lot of platforms, a reasonable place to start looking is 
> MySQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python support, and 
> there's lots of people on the net who know it and are willing to give help 
> and advice.

Or PostgreSQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python
support, and there's lots of people on the net who know it and are
willing to give help and advice.  In addition, it is a truly enterprise
level, SQL standard, fully transactional database.  Don't start with
MySQL and uprade to PostgreSQL later when you get big.  Start with the
best one now and be ready.

> Databases have a bit of a learning curve.  If you've never done any 
> database work, don't expect to download MySql (or any other database) this 
> afternoon and be up and running by tomorrow.

Whatever database you get, there will probably be plenty of tutorials.
See http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/interactive/tutorial.html
for the PostgreSQL one.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From srikrishnamohan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:03:43 2010
From: srikrishnamohan at gmail.com (km)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:03:43 +0900
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=E8=BC=9Dlease_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <f4cc03641002261003l5d2967d6g5c279fb675a9c605@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Probably u should try couchdb! its a document oriented database. (
apache.couchdb.org)
u can store your dictionaries as json documents and yes they  are simple
text files; data structures cna be directly stored into JSON documents.
memory efficient too..
python module @ http://code.google.com/p/couchdb-python/

HTH
Krishna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

> In article
> <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>  Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> > the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> > using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> > before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> > I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> > and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
> > something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jeremy
>
> This is a very vague question, so it'll get a vague answer :-)
>
> If you have so much data that you're running into memory problems, then
> yes, storing the data externally in an disk-resident database seems like a
> reasonable idea.
>
> Once you get into databases, platform independence will be an issue.  There
> are many databases out there to pick from.  If you want something which
> will work on a lot of platforms, a reasonable place to start looking is
> MySQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python support, and
> there's lots of people on the net who know it and are willing to give help
> and advice.
>
> Databases have a bit of a learning curve.  If you've never done any
> database work, don't expect to download MySql (or any other database) this
> afternoon and be up and running by tomorrow.
>
> Whatever database you pick, you're almost certainly going to end up having
> to install it wherever you install your application.  There's no such thing
> as a universally available database that you can expect to be available
> everywhere.
>
> Have fun!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:04:27 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:04:27 +0100
Subject: Dictionary or =?windows-1252?Q?Database=97Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm92f9$qmg$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jeremy wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

Since you use dictionaries, I guess that simple store saving key:value 
will do?

If so, bsddb support built into Python will do just nicely.

bsddb is multiplatform, although I have not personally tested if a 
binary db created on one platform will be usable on another. You'd have 
to check this.

Caveat: from what some people say I gather that binary format between 
bsddb versions tends to change.

There's also ultra-cool-and-modern Tokyo Cabinet key:value store with 
Python bindings:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pytc/

I didn't test it, though.


Regards,
mk



From garyrob at me.com  Fri Feb 26 13:08:10 2010
From: garyrob at me.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:08:10 -0500
Subject: collections use __next__() in python 2.6?
Message-ID: <20100226130810913273.0085366e@me.com>

The Python 2.6.4 docs for collections at http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html say that __next__() is an abstract method for the Iterable ABC. But my understanding is that __next__() isn't supposed to be used until Python 3. Also, I'm using the Mapping ABC, which inherits from Iterable, and it doesn't seem to work if I define __next__(); I am not seeing problems if I define next() instead.

What am I missing?
-- 

Gary Robinson
CTO
Emergent Music, LLC
personal email: garyrob at me.com
work email: grobinson at flyfi.com
Company: http://www.flyfi.com
Blog:    http://www.garyrobinson.net


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:20:19 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:20:19 +0100
Subject: Dictionary or =?windows-1252?Q?Database=97Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm93d1$u08$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jeremy wrote:

> Shelve looks like an interesting option, but what might pose an issue
> is that I'm reading the data from a disk instead of memory.  I didn't
> mention this in my original post, but I was hoping that by using a
> database it would be more memory efficient in storing data in RAM so I
> wouldn't have to read from (or swap to/from) disk.  Would using the
> shelve package make reading/writing data from disk faster since it is
> in a binary format?

Read the docs:

"class shelve.BsdDbShelf(dict[, protocol=None[, writeback=False]])?
     A subclass of Shelf which exposes first(), next(), previous(), 
last() and set_location() which are available in the bsddb module but 
not in other database modules. The dict object passed to the constructor 
must support those methods. This is generally accomplished by calling 
one of bsddb.hashopen(), bsddb.btopen() or bsddb.rnopen(). The optional 
protocol and writeback parameters have the same interpretation as for 
the Shelf class."

Apparently using shelve internally gives you option of using bsddb, 
which is good news: bsddb is B-tree DB, which is highly efficient for 
finding keys. I would recommend bsddb.btopen(), as it creates B-tree DB 
(perhaps other implementations, like anydb or hash db are good as well, 
but I personally didn't test them out).

I can't say for Berkeley DB implementation, but in general B-tree 
algorithm has O(log2 n) complexity for finding keys, which roughly means 
that if you need to find particular key in a db of 1 million keys, 
you'll probably need ~20 disk accesses (or even less if some keys looked 
at in the process of search happen to be in the same disk sectors). So 
yes, it's highly efficient.

Having said that, remember that disk is many orders of magnitude slower 
than RAM, so it's no free lunch.. Nothing will beat memory-based data 
structure when it comes to speed (well new flash or hybrid disks perhaps 
could significantly improve in comparison to current mainstream 
mechanical-platter disks? there are some hyper-fast storage hardware 
companies out there, although they tend to charge arm and leg for their 
stuff for now).

Caveat: Berkeley DB is dual-licensed -- if you're using it for 
commercial work, it might be that you'd need to buy a license for it. 
Although I have had no experience with this really, if someone here did 
perhaps they will shed some light on it?

Regards,
mk





From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 26 13:25:04 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:25:04 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <4B881200.5060505@sequans.com>

Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
> wrote:
>
>   
>> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>>     
>>> [stuff]
>>>       
>> Reminiscent of:
>>
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>>     
> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
> wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
> though.
>   

I agree to that statement, I was surprised that mov AX,BX assumes that 
BX is the source, and AX the destination. I never programmed in 
assembler though.

JM


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:26:46 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:26:46 +0100
Subject: Dictionary or Database_Please advise
In-Reply-To: <20100226125750.45f2406a.darcy@druid.net>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<20100226125750.45f2406a.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <hm93p4$vcc$1@dough.gmane.org>

D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:

> Or PostgreSQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python
> support, and there's lots of people on the net who know it and are
> willing to give help and advice.  In addition, it is a truly enterprise
> level, SQL standard, fully transactional database.  Don't start with
> MySQL and uprade to PostgreSQL later when you get big.  Start with the
> best one now and be ready.

I second that: I burned my fingers on MySQL quite a few times and don't 
want to have anything to do with it anymore. Eventually you hit the wall 
with MySQL (although I haven't tested latest and best, perhaps they 
improved).

E.g. don't even get me started on replication that tends to randomly 
fizzle out quietly without telling you anything about it. Or that 
FOREIGN KEY is accepted but referential integrity is not enforced. Or 
that if you want real transactions, you have to choose InnoDB table type 
but then you lose much of the performance. Etc.

No, if you have a choice, avoid MySQL and go for PGSQL. It's fantastic, 
if (necessarily) complex.

Regards,
mk



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 26 13:30:23 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:30:23 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <4B88133F.7020006@sequans.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <eq4l57-okf2.ln1 at ozzie.tundraware.com>,
>  Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
>>> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
>>> this:
>>>
>>> """Function that does stuff"""
>>> def doStuff():
>>>     while not wise(up):
>>>         yield scorn
>>>
>>> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
>>> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>>>
>>> /W
>>>
>>>       
>> Reminiscent of:
>>
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>> And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:
>>
>> ; This is a comment
>>     
>
> OK, if we're going to do this, how about this one, that I just found 
> yesterday in some production C++ code.  I'm so glad somebody took the time 
> to explain to me what p7 through p9 are.  I never would have figured it out 
> otherwise.
>
> /**
>  * Tracing facility. Writes the message to the specified output stream.
>  * If output stream is NULL, writes the message to the process log.
>  *
>  * @param  msg_id  The message id to use for lookup.
>  * @param  ostr    The output stream.
>  * @param  p1      The first substition parameter.
>  * @param  p2      The second substition parameter.
>  * @param  p3      The third substition parameter.
>  * @param  p4      The fourth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p5      The fifth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p6      The sixth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p7      The seventh substition parameter.
>  * @param  p8      The eigth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p9      The ninth substition parameter.
> */
>   
just in case the first sub param would be p0 :-)


JM


From arjun.chennu at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:39:08 2010
From: arjun.chennu at gmail.com (Arjun)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:39:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to end TCP socket data while using readline()?
Message-ID: <273a2d1e-cff5-4759-a59d-6ccfefddfa40@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have a small script that runs a TCP server. A client connects to
this server and transmits a stored file line-by-line, and then waits
for a confirmation "done". However, when I run them the first loop
never really ends -- as the TCP server keeps expecting more data. I am
using a file-like-object, and so somehow I have to communicate to the
server that it is the end-of-file.

here is some server code
<snip>
            sock1.bind(('', port))
            print "Listening at port: ", port
            sock1.listen(1)      # listening socket
            (conn, addr) = sock1.accept()    # connected socket
            print 'Client (localhost) port: ', addr[1]

            cf = conn.makefile('r',0)    # file like obj for socket

            lf = open('ccs.txt','w')
            for line in cf:
                lf.write(line)
                lf.flush()
                sys.stdout.write(line)
                print len(line)

            lf.close()      (*here*)
            cf.close()
            cf = conn.makefile('w',0)
            print len(line)
            print 'sendin'
            stat = 'done'
            cf.write(stat)
            print stat
            print 'sent'
            cf.close()
            print 'script done & connection closed'
</snip>

The client is sending the lines through this code:
<snip>
        s.connect((host,port))
        sfp = open("dcs.txt")
       # script = sfp.readlines()
        stat = 'still'
        cf = s.makefile('w',0)
        for line in sfp.readlines():
            cf.write(line)
            print len(line)
        print 'close'
        cf.flush()
        cf.close()
        sfp.close()

        cf = s.makefile('r',0)
        print stat, 'waiting'
        stat = cf.readline()
        print stat, 'waiting'  # this should become "done waiting"
        cf.close()
        s.close()
</snip>

So what I am wondering is:

1. Using a file-like object means that the socket becomes uni-
directional, until the mode of the file object is changed from 'r' to
'w' (or vice versa). This seems inefficient, and rather unPythonesque.
Can somebody tell me if there is a more elegant way of receiving all
the lines from the client, and then sending a "done" message to the
client?

2.  Where I have marked (*here*) in the server code, is where the
execution seems to stay waiting... apparently for more input from the
client. But then when I force-terminate the client script, the
execution continues on the server-side!! So then it sends the "done"
status to a (already dead) client, and then exits. How do I get the
server to know when the EOF has been reached while using FLOs?

Input on this will be much appreciated, because the documentation for
readlines() didn't help me with this.

Cheers,
A


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:41:48 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:41:48 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <hm94la$1uv$1@dough.gmane.org>

Roy Smith wrote:

> /**
>  * Tracing facility. Writes the message to the specified output stream.
>  * If output stream is NULL, writes the message to the process log.
>  *
>  * @param  msg_id  The message id to use for lookup.
>  * @param  ostr    The output stream.
>  * @param  p1      The first substition parameter.
>  * @param  p2      The second substition parameter.
>  * @param  p3      The third substition parameter.
>  * @param  p4      The fourth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p5      The fifth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p6      The sixth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p7      The seventh substition parameter.
>  * @param  p8      The eigth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p9      The ninth substition parameter.
> */

Well at least they did explain something. ;-) You should be happy you 
don't have to deal with PHP programmers that tend to write 
20-positional-argument function AND programmer 1 knows what params 1-7 
do, programmer 2 knows what params 8-15 do and nobody knows what params 
16-20 do.

Seriously.

Regards,
mk



From shailendra.vikas at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:07:10 2010
From: shailendra.vikas at gmail.com (Shailendra)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:07:10 -0500
Subject: SystemError: error return without exception set
Message-ID: <f1b536a81002261107k4119bbdflf20703e5809c976d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I am getting error in "SystemError: error return without exception
set" which i am not able debug. I made following test program which
gives same error.

=========test.py==============

import numpy

class testClass:
    def __init__(self,param1=1,param2=2):
        self.param1,self.param2=param1,param2

    def __str__(self):
        return 'param1=%d param2=%d'%(self.param1,self.param2)


class makeLotOftestClass:
    def __init__(self,paramlist1=None,paramlist2=None):
        self.holder= numpy.empty((len(paramlist1),len(paramlist2)))
        for i in range(len(paramlist1)):
            for j in range(len(paramlist2)):

self.holder[i,j]=testClass(param1=paramlist1[i],param2=paramlist2[j])

    def __str__():
        str=''
        for testclass in numpy.raven(self.holder):
            str=str+testclass.__str__()
        return str

if __name__=='__main__':
    lotofclass=makeLotOftestClass(paramlist1=[10,20,30,40],paramlist2=[110,120,130,140])
    print lotofclass

==============================================

$ python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 25, in <module>
    lotofclass=makeLotOftestClass(paramlist1=[10,20,30,40],paramlist2=[110,120,130,140])
  File "test.py", line 16, in __init__
    self.holder[i,j]=testClass(param1=paramlist1[i],param2=paramlist2[j])
SystemError: error return without exception set

Can someone point out why is this exception. It seems to be a simple
code. Google search for the error message did not help much.

Thanks,
Shailendra


From toby at rcsreg.com  Fri Feb 26 14:13:06 2010
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:13:06 GMT
Subject: Six Minutes and fourty two seconds
Message-ID: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>

Now that I use python, this is the amount of time 
per day that I spend adding forgotten semicolons while
debugging other languages.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 26 14:23:16 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 11:23:16 -0800
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9734$o9p$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Michael Pardee  <python-list at open-sense.com> wrote:
>
>I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following
>behavior:

http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From mnordhoff at mattnordhoff.com  Fri Feb 26 14:28:01 2010
From: mnordhoff at mattnordhoff.com (Matt Nordhoff)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:28:01 +0000
Subject: Six Minutes and fourty two seconds
In-Reply-To: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
References: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
Message-ID: <4B8820C1.3010803@mattnordhoff.com>

Tobiah wrote:
> Now that I use python, this is the amount of time 
> per day that I spend adding forgotten semicolons while
> debugging other languages.

You can fix that by not using other languages. :>
-- 
Matt Nordhoff


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Feb 26 14:28:21 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:28:21 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <7umqtdFlrrU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <7umqtdFlrrU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B8820D5.7030502@animats.com>

Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to 
>> assumptions that programs will obey locality of reference. 
>> Pointer-chasing is a cache-
>> hostile activity.
> 
> Another thing to consider is the rate at which garbage is
> created. Java's fundamental types (ints, floats, etc.) are
> unboxed, and objects are only used for relatively heavyweight
> things. So you can do quite a lot of useful computation in
> Java without creating any objects or leaving behind any
> garbage.
> 
> In Python, on the other hand, you can't even do arithmetic
> without creating and destroying intermediate objects at
> every step. 

     This is really a CPython implementation problem.  Face it,
CPython is a "naive interpreter".  It pretty much does the obvious.
In other words, the code for the worst case is used for all cases.
It doesn't optimize out reference count updates, do type inference
to avoid unnecessary boxing, or figure out at compile time which
objects could be "slotted" and don't need dictionary lookups for
fields.  Plus, of course, there's the GIL problem.

     Reference counts aren't inherently slow.  About 90% of reference
count updates could be optimized out.  The compiler needs to understand
what's a temporary object and what isn't.  See

http://blogs.msdn.com/abhinaba/archive/2009/02/09/back-to-basics-optimizing-reference-counting-garbage-collection.aspx

     The language isn't inherently slow, but CPython is.

     The Shed Skin developer has shown what's possible.  He
doesn't have enough resources to finish a full implementation,
but he's on the right track.  There's grumbling about the
restrictions in Shed Skin, but only some of Shed Skin's
restrictions are inherently necessary.  The one Shed Skin
developer has accomplished far more than the PyPy army of ants.

				John Nagle


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 26 14:31:32 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:31:32 +0000
Subject: SystemError: error return without exception set
In-Reply-To: <f1b536a81002261107k4119bbdflf20703e5809c976d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f1b536a81002261107k4119bbdflf20703e5809c976d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B882194.7030500@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Shailendra wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am getting error in "SystemError: error return without exception
> set" which i am not able debug. I made following test program which
> gives same error.
> 
> =========test.py==============
> 
> import numpy
> 
> class testClass:
>     def __init__(self,param1=1,param2=2):
>         self.param1,self.param2=param1,param2
> 
>     def __str__(self):
>         return 'param1=%d param2=%d'%(self.param1,self.param2)
> 
> 
> class makeLotOftestClass:
>     def __init__(self,paramlist1=None,paramlist2=None):
>         self.holder= numpy.empty((len(paramlist1),len(paramlist2)))
>         for i in range(len(paramlist1)):
>             for j in range(len(paramlist2)):
> 
> self.holder[i,j]=testClass(param1=paramlist1[i],param2=paramlist2[j])
> 
>     def __str__():
>         str=''
>         for testclass in numpy.raven(self.holder):
>             str=str+testclass.__str__()
>         return str
> 
> if __name__=='__main__':
>     lotofclass=makeLotOftestClass(paramlist1=[10,20,30,40],paramlist2=[110,120,130,140])
>     print lotofclass
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> $ python test.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 25, in <module>
>     lotofclass=makeLotOftestClass(paramlist1=[10,20,30,40],paramlist2=[110,120,130,140])
>   File "test.py", line 16, in __init__
>     self.holder[i,j]=testClass(param1=paramlist1[i],param2=paramlist2[j])
> SystemError: error return without exception set
> 
> Can someone point out why is this exception. It seems to be a simple
> code. Google search for the error message did not help much.
> 
As I see it, there are 2 problems here:

1. numpy arrays contain numbers, but what you're trying to put into the
array are not numbers.

2. The numpy module is trying to raise an exception but it isn't setting
up the exception correctly internally, which is a bug in numpy itself.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:36:35 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:36:35 +0100
Subject: Six Minutes and fourty two seconds
In-Reply-To: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
References: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
Message-ID: <hm97s1$e7f$1@dough.gmane.org>

Tobiah wrote:
> Now that I use python, this is the amount of time 
> per day that I spend adding forgotten semicolons while
> debugging other languages.

My objects are flat and I don't know who's Guido.

I blame it all on Python.

How about a PEP "Let's make Python look like PHP"?

Regards,
mk



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 26 14:45:58 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:45:58 +0000
Subject: How to end TCP socket data while using readline()?
In-Reply-To: <db4a45821002261130k6e8b521ds25c9644ae42d911@mail.gmail.com>
References: <273a2d1e-cff5-4759-a59d-6ccfefddfa40@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	
	<4B881F04.7040106@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<db4a45821002261130k6e8b521ds25c9644ae42d911@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8824F6.9010607@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Arjun Chennu wrote:
> No need to flush because you're writing to a file and it'll be flushed
> 
>     anyway when you close it.
> 
> 
> True. I had introduced those flush lines while I was trying to 
> troubleshoot this annoying situation. :-)
> 
>     You've closed the file view, but the underlying socket is still open.
> 
> 
>     The server will see EOF only when the socket is closed by the client,
>     and closing the file view doesn't close the socket itself.
> 
> 
> That's what I intended to do. Keep the socket open, but close the file 
> object so that the direction of transfer can be reversed and a "done" 
> message can be sent to the client.
> 
> TCP is meant to facilitate two-directional transfer innit? So how do I 
> do that while using file objects? If i have to close the socket to do 
> that, it seems a bit wasteful in terms of network 'transactions'
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I've already confirmed that closing the socket 
> does indeed move the program ahead --- but I'd like to now make 
> two-directional comm. possible.
> 
Here's a trick borrowed from the POP3 format (used for email).

Server code:
     ...
     cf = conn.makefile('r', 0)    # file like obj for socket
     lf = open('ccs.txt', 'w')
     for line in cf:
         if line == '.end\n':
             break
         if line.startswith('..'):
             line = line[1 : ]
         lf.write(line)
         sys.stdout.write(line)
         print len(line)
     lf.close()
     cf.close()
     ...


Client code:
     ...
     cf = s.makefile('w', 0)
     for line in sfp.readlines():
         if line.startswith('.'):
             cf.write('.')
         cf.write(line)
         print len(line)
     cr.write('.end\n')
     print 'close'
     cf.close()
     ...


From python at bdurham.com  Fri Feb 26 14:49:09 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:49:09 -0500
Subject: Possible to import from a cStringIO file object vs. file on disk?
In-Reply-To: <1267213340.1668.1362112899@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1267195808.16415.1362063523@webmail.messagingengine.com><hm8un4$amq$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<1267213340.1668.1362112899@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1267213749.2540.1362114855@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Steve,

> You'll need to write a custom importer. PEP 302 contains the necessary details.

Thanks for pointing me to PEP 302 and the imp module. 

It looks like "imp.load_compiled(name, pathname[, file])" is what I
need, but the description of this method (and similar methods) has the
following disclaimer:

Quote: "The file argument is the byte-compiled code file, open for
reading in binary mode, from the beginning. It must currently be a real
file object, not a user-defined class emulating a file." [1]

I tried using a cStringIO object vs. a real file object, but the help
documentation is correct - only a real file object can be used.

Any ideas on why these modules would impose such a restriction or is
this just an historical artifact?

Are there any techniques I can use to avoid this physical file
requirement?

Thanks,
Malcolm

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/imp.html#imp.load_module

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Is it possible to import from a cStringIO file object (containing
> compiled byte code) vs. a physical file on disk?
>  
> I'm thinking that this is possible, given Python's ability to import
> from zip files, but I'm not sure where to look next.
>  
> Thank you,
> Malcolm
> 


regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Fri Feb 26 15:07:52 2010
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 20:07:52 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.187.1267039205.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uqo0nF1ssU1@mid.individual.net>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:16:24 +0100, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
>> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
>> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.
>
> Out of curiosity:
>
> def gen_rand_string(length):
>      prng = random.SystemRandom()
>      chars = []
>      for i in range(length):
>          chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
>      return ''.join(chars)
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      chardict = {}
>      for i in range(10000):
> ##        w = gen_rand_word(10)
>          w = gen_rand_string(10)
>          count_chars(chardict, w)
>      counts = list(chardict.items())
>      counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
>      for char, count in counts:
>          print char, count
>
>
> s 3966
> d 3912
> g 3909
> h 3905
> a 3901
> u 3900
> q 3891
> m 3888
> k 3884
> b 3878
> x 3875
> v 3867
> w 3864
> y 3851
> l 3825
> z 3821
> c 3819
> e 3819
> r 3816
> n 3808
> o 3797
> f 3795
> t 3784
> p 3765
> j 3730
> i 3704
>
> Better, although still not perfect.

What would be perfect?  Surely one shouldn't be happy if all the
tallies come out exactly equal: that would be a blatant indication
of something very nonrandom going on.

The tallies given above give a chi-squared value smack in the
middle of the range expected for random sampling of a uniform
distribution (p = 0.505).  So the chi-squared metric of
goodness-of-fit to a unifom distribution says you're doing fine.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From python at rcn.com  Fri Feb 26 15:10:33 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:10:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: collections use __next__() in python 2.6?
References: <mailman.290.1267211354.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ee117ff6-415d-44c0-a7a7-a3abb4c53c19@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 10:08?am, Gary Robinson <gary... at me.com> wrote:
> The Python 2.6.4 docs for collections athttp://docs.python.org/library/collections.htmlsay that __next__() is an abstract method for the Iterable ABC. But my understanding is that __next__() isn't supposed to be used until Python 3. Also, I'm using the Mapping ABC, which inherits from Iterable, and it doesn't seem to work if I define __next__(); I am not seeing problems if I define next() instead.
>
> What am I missing?

It's a typo.
The abstract method is next().


Raymond


From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Fri Feb 26 15:17:43 2010
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 20:17:43 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.190.1267041740.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uqoj7F1ssU2@mid.individual.net>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:02:07 +0100, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
> rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding
> mean 3845.15384615 std dev 46.2016419186
> l 3926 1.75 std devs away from mean
> y 3916 1.53 std devs away from mean
> d 3909 1.38 std devs away from mean
> a 3898 1.14 std devs away from mean
> p 3898 1.14 std devs away from mean
> c 3889 0.95 std devs away from mean
> u 3884 0.84 std devs away from mean
> j 3873 0.60 std devs away from mean
> n 3873 0.60 std devs away from mean
> w 3866 0.45 std devs away from mean
> x 3863 0.39 std devs away from mean
> r 3855 0.21 std devs away from mean
> m 3852 0.15 std devs away from mean
> b 3841 -0.09 std devs away from mean
> t 3835 -0.22 std devs away from mean
> o 3829 -0.35 std devs away from mean
> k 3827 -0.39 std devs away from mean
> i 3821 -0.52 std devs away from mean
> s 3812 -0.72 std devs away from mean
> q 3806 -0.85 std devs away from mean
> v 3803 -0.91 std devs away from mean
> g 3799 -1.00 std devs away from mean
> h 3793 -1.13 std devs away from mean
> e 3782 -1.37 std devs away from mean
> f 3766 -1.71 std devs away from mean
> z 3758 -1.89 std devs away from mean

Chi2 = 14.43, 25 d.f., prob = 0.046362.
The observed distribution is SIGNIFICANTLY CLOSER
to the uniform distribution than reasonable by chance.

> rand_str_SystemRandom_noseeding
> mean 3845.15384615 std dev 55.670522726
> i 3961 2.08 std devs away from mean
> r 3911 1.18 std devs away from mean
> e 3910 1.16 std devs away from mean
> m 3905 1.08 std devs away from mean
> a 3901 1.00 std devs away from mean
> u 3893 0.86 std devs away from mean
> t 3882 0.66 std devs away from mean
> w 3872 0.48 std devs away from mean
> s 3870 0.45 std devs away from mean
> c 3868 0.41 std devs away from mean
> n 3866 0.37 std devs away from mean
> q 3865 0.36 std devs away from mean
> k 3863 0.32 std devs away from mean
> y 3848 0.05 std devs away from mean
> j 3836 -0.16 std devs away from mean
> v 3830 -0.27 std devs away from mean
> f 3829 -0.29 std devs away from mean
> z 3829 -0.29 std devs away from mean
> g 3827 -0.33 std devs away from mean
> l 3818 -0.49 std devs away from mean
> b 3803 -0.76 std devs away from mean
> d 3803 -0.76 std devs away from mean
> p 3756 -1.60 std devs away from mean
> x 3755 -1.62 std devs away from mean
> h 3744 -1.82 std devs away from mean
> o 3729 -2.09 std devs away from mean

Chi2 = 20.96, 25 d.f., prob = 0.304944.
The observed distribution is not significantly different
from the uniform distribution.

> rand_str_custom
> mean 3517.15384615 std dev 40.7541336343
> i 3586 1.69 std devs away from mean
> a 3578 1.49 std devs away from mean
> e 3575 1.42 std devs away from mean
> m 3570 1.30 std devs away from mean
> q 3562 1.10 std devs away from mean
> c 3555 0.93 std devs away from mean
> g 3552 0.86 std devs away from mean
> w 3542 0.61 std devs away from mean
> p 3536 0.46 std devs away from mean
> x 3533 0.39 std devs away from mean
> s 3528 0.27 std devs away from mean
> o 3524 0.17 std devs away from mean
> d 3516 -0.03 std devs away from mean
> t 3515 -0.05 std devs away from mean
> h 3511 -0.15 std devs away from mean
> v 3502 -0.37 std devs away from mean
> z 3502 -0.37 std devs away from mean
> b 3500 -0.42 std devs away from mean
> f 3496 -0.52 std devs away from mean
> u 3492 -0.62 std devs away from mean
> l 3486 -0.76 std devs away from mean
> r 3478 -0.96 std devs away from mean
> n 3476 -1.01 std devs away from mean
> j 3451 -1.62 std devs away from mean
> k 3450 -1.65 std devs away from mean
> y 3430 -2.14 std devs away from mean

Chi2 = 12.28, 25 d.f., prob = 0.015815.
The observed distribution is SIGNIFICANTLY CLOSER
to the uniform distribution than reasonable by chance.

> It would appear that SystemRandom().choice is indeed best (in terms of 
> how much the counts stray from mean in std devs), but only after seeding 
> it with os.urandom.

I don't see any reason to worry about any of the three, except
perhaps that the first and last are surprisingly uniform.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:27:06 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:27:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c560c898-5dc8-421d-9f24-27bb64791b50@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 10:58?am, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data

How much is "lots"?

> that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?

What do you mean by more efficient?

> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

The SQLite datbase engine is built into Python 2.5 and up.  I have
heard on this list that there may be problems with it with Python 2.6
and up on Linux, but I've stayed with 2.5 and it works fine for me on
WinXP, Vista, and Linux.

You can use it as a disk-stored single database file, or an in-memory-
only database.  The SQLite website (http://www.sqlite.org/) claims it
is the "most widely deployed SQL database engine in the world.", for
what that's worth.

Have a look at this:
http://docs.python.org/library/sqlite3.html

Che



>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy



From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 26 15:44:44 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:44:44 +0100
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9bs0$gdg$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Michael Pardee:
> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following behavior:
> 
>>>> a=1
>>>> b=2

'a' refers to an object representing the integer 1.

Since 1 is an immutable value you can just as well think of it as 'a' containing 
the value 1, because a reference to an immutable value is for nearly all 
practical purposes indistinguishable from that value.

'b' refers to an object representing the integer 2, which, again, since integers 
are immutable, you can just as well think of as 'b' containing the value 2.


>>>> mylist=[a,b]

A 'list' object (an array) is constructed, and 'mylist' is set to refer to it. 
The array has two items. The first item is set to refer to same object as 'a' (a 
reference copy), the second item is set to refer to the same object as 'b'.

But since integers are immutable you can just as well think of it as a copying 
of the integer values.

Immutable values allow you to think of handling the values directly.


>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>>>> a=3

This changes what 'a' refers to.

It does not change what the first array element refers to.


>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
> 
> Whoah!  Are python lists only for literals?

No, that's an irrelevant notion.


>  Nope:
> 
>>>> c={}
>>>> d={}

Here 'c' now refers to a dictionary object, which is mutable (can be changed).

And 'd' refers to another dictionary object.


>>>> mydlist=[c,d]
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {}]

A 'list' array object is constructed, and 'mydlist' is set to refer to it.

The first item in the array is set to refer to the same object as 'c' refers to, 
namely a mutable dictionary object (currently an empty dictionary).

The second item in the array is set to refer to the same object as 'd' refers 
to, namely a mutable dictionary object (currently an empty dictionary).

It's the same that happened earlier with the integers.

The only difference, but it's a significant one, is that now the referred to 
objects are mutable, that is, they can be changed.


>>>> c['x']=1

The dictionary object referred to by 'c' is updated to now have a key 'x' with 
associated value 1.

In more gory detail: the key is associated with a reference to an object 
representing 1, but again, since integer values are immutable you can think of 
this as a direct association with the value; the reference view of this 
association is mostly[1] only relevant when the referred to object is mutable.

Since the dictionary object that you're changing is referred to by both 'c' and 
the first item of 'mydlist', both of these reflect the change.


>>>> print mydlist
> [{'x': 1}, {}]

Yep.


> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.

You mean items in a list are references to objects. Yes.


> This seems to confirm that:
> 
> mydlist[1]['y']=4
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {'y': 4}]

To check that you should instead have printed 'd', where you'd also see the 
change, since 'd' refers to the same dictionary object as 'mydlist[1]' does.


> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
> literal to something it is changing the object.

No, it has nothing to do with literals.

With the current language definition[2], as of Python 2.x and 3.x, it's very 
simple: assignments copy references, and that's all they do.

References to immutable objects allow you to think of values being copied 
around, which except for checking the identities of those objects (seldom 
relevant) yields the exact same conclusions about the effect of operations, but 
that's only because those immutable objects never change.

What you did above was to copy references to mutable objects, objects that can 
change.

Then the value-copying view breaks down.


>  But modifying a list
> or dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the
> object.

A simple way to think of this is copying references.

Objects are never copied by Python assignments.

The assignments only copy references.


> I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
> element lists as "pointers":
> 
>>>> aa=[1]
>>>> bb=[2]
>>>> myplist=[aa,bb]
>>>> print myplist
> [[1], [2]]
>>>> aa[0]=3
>>>> print myplist
> [[3], [2]]

This is the same as your last example above, except that now you're using 'list' 
arrays as the referred to mutable objects, instead of 'dict' dictionary objects.


> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?

Possibly, if you think of assignments as copying references, you won't need that 
notion.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

Notes:
[1] The reference view can be relevant also for immutable objects in (at least) 
two cases. One is when the program logic depends on object identity, obtainable 
via the id function, which is just bad programming, but I mention it for 
completeness. The other is where you have a really large immutable object, such 
as in Python 2.x a very large 'long' value; then assignments would be 
inefficient if the value was actually copied, but since assignments only copy 
references in Python you can blissfully disregard the size of the object with 
respect to assignments. :-)
[2] Some wording in the language spec requires that an assignment behaves as if 
references were copied, including preservation of object identity. But object 
identity is almost never an issue for immutable objects, and a relaxation of 
that wording, for immutable values, might permit some optimization. So it just 
might change somewhen in the future, trading simplicity for some efficiency.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 15:45:31 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:45:31 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
Message-ID: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>

How can I interrogate Python to find out where it is looking to find the PyQt4 
DLLs in a Windows installation?  Secondarily, how is this search path set?


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:51:34 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: any news from Python Magazine ?
Message-ID: <d284112a-5838-4246-9d47-7861cc6862aa@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Seems rather late...:
http://pythonmagazine.com/

"We'll be back, better than ever, on January 26th, 2010. "

Olivier


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Feb 26 15:52:00 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:52 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX

>> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
>> wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
>> though.

> I agree to that statement, I was surprised that mov AX,BX assumes that
> BX is the source, and AX the destination. I never programmed in
> assembler though.

You could think of it as a not bad use of the design principle "Clear The 
Simple Stuff Out Of The Way First".  Destinations are commonly a lot simpler 
than sources -- just as in Python assignment statements.  So you can tell 
more or less at a glance what's going to be changed, then get into the deep 
analysis to find what it's going to be changed to.

	Mel.




From patrick.just4fun at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:56:47 2010
From: patrick.just4fun at gmail.com (Patrick Sabin)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:56:47 +0100
Subject: Dictionary or =?windows-1252?Q?Database=97Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B88358F.5000501@gmail.com>


> Shelve looks like an interesting option, but what might pose an issue
> is that I'm reading the data from a disk instead of memory.  I didn't
> mention this in my original post, but I was hoping that by using a
> database it would be more memory efficient in storing data in RAM so I
> wouldn't have to read from (or swap to/from) disk.

A database usually stores data on disk and not in RAM. However you could 
use sqlite with :memory:, so that it runs in RAM.

> Would using the
> shelve package make reading/writing data from disk faster since it is
> in a binary format?
> 
Faster than what? Shelve uses caching, so it is likely to be faster than 
a self-made solution. However, accessing disk is much slower than 
accessing RAM.

> Jeremy
- Patrick


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb 26 16:07:15 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:07:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9d63$ev9$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-26, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>>>     
>>>> [stuff]
>>>>       
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
>> wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
>> though.
>
> I agree to that statement, I was surprised that mov AX,BX assumes that 
> BX is the source, and AX the destination. I never programmed in 
> assembler though.

It depends on the assembler.  Some are dst, src and others are
the other way around.  Some vary depending on the instruction.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Sign my PETITION.
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From qtrimble at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:08:28 2010
From: qtrimble at gmail.com (qtrimble)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:08:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
Message-ID: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

I'm a python newbie but I do have some basic scripting experience.  I
need to take the line starting with "wer" and extract the year and day
of year from that string.  I want to be able to add the year and day
of year from the last line having "wer*" to the lines occurring in
between "wer*" lines.  Python seems suitable to do this and I'm fairly
certain I can eventually get this to work but I've been hit with a
very short time frame so I'm looking for any generous help.  The data
below is just a sample.  There are well over 500,000 lines that need
processed.

wer1999001
      31.2234      82.2367
      37.9535      82.3456
wer1999002
      31.2234      82.2367
      37.9535      82.3456


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 26 16:12:07 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:12:07 +0100
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
In-Reply-To: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm9df9$puu$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* qtrimble:
> I'm a python newbie but I do have some basic scripting experience.  I
> need to take the line starting with "wer" and extract the year and day
> of year from that string.  I want to be able to add the year and day
> of year from the last line having "wer*" to the lines occurring in
> between "wer*" lines.  Python seems suitable to do this and I'm fairly
> certain I can eventually get this to work but I've been hit with a
> very short time frame so I'm looking for any generous help.  The data
> below is just a sample.  There are well over 500,000 lines that need
> processed.
> 
> wer1999001
>       31.2234      82.2367
>       37.9535      82.3456
> wer1999002
>       31.2234      82.2367
>       37.9535      82.3456

<example>
   >>> line = "wer1999001"
   >>> line
   'wer1999001'
   >>> line[3:3+4]
   '1999'
   >>> line[7:7+3]
   '001'
   >>> _
</example>

Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:14:12 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:14:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

On 26 f?v, 22:08, qtrimble <qtrim... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a python newbie but I do have some basic scripting experience. ?I
> need to take the line starting with "wer" and extract the year and day
> of year from that string. ?I want to be able to add the year and day
> of year from the last line having "wer*" to the lines occurring in
> between "wer*" lines. ?Python seems suitable to do this and I'm fairly
> certain I can eventually get this to work but I've been hit with a
> very short time frame so I'm looking for any generous help. ?The data
> below is just a sample. ?There are well over 500,000 lines that need
> processed.
>
> wer1999001
> ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
> wer1999002
> ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456

did you try something as a working basis ?

Olivier


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 26 16:19:27 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:19:27 -0800
Subject: A more specific query ...
In-Reply-To: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002261319y7e71c958p7bf4f4be60902066@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Gib Bogle
<g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
> How can I interrogate Python to find out where it is looking to find the
> PyQt4 DLLs in a Windows installation?

import sys
print(sys.path)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From qtrimble at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:21:26 2010
From: qtrimble at gmail.com (qtrimble)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:21:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 4:14?pm, OdarR <olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 f?v, 22:08, qtrimble <qtrim... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm a python newbie but I do have some basic scripting experience. ?I
> > need to take the line starting with "wer" and extract the year and day
> > of year from that string. ?I want to be able to add the year and day
> > of year from the last line having "wer*" to the lines occurring in
> > between "wer*" lines. ?Python seems suitable to do this and I'm fairly
> > certain I can eventually get this to work but I've been hit with a
> > very short time frame so I'm looking for any generous help. ?The data
> > below is just a sample. ?There are well over 500,000 lines that need
> > processed.
>
> > wer1999001
> > ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> > ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
> > wer1999002
> > ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> > ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
>
> did you try something as a working basis ?
>
> Olivier

Yes but it's very simple -

fileIN = open(r"C:\testing.txt", "r")

for line in fileIN:
    year = line[3:7]
    day = line[7:10]
    print year, day

This is good since i can get the year and day of year into a variable
but I haven't gotten any further.


From pistacchio at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:26:44 2010
From: pistacchio at gmail.com (pistacchio)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:26:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: random.gauss: range
Message-ID: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

hi,
i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
number between a given range? like, from 0 to 20 with an average of
10? and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied
it, so mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.

thanks in advange


From lucat at despammed.com  Fri Feb 26 16:30:58 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:30:58 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <mailman.267.1267194146.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.254.1267127876.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uog65F5vuU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.267.1267194146.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uqssjFmeeU1@mid.individual.net>

Roald de Vries wrote:
> I would suggest to do choose the same strategy as 'from __future__ 
> import ...' takes, which does similar things and limits them to the 
> module it is used in. I would be curious to hear about your results.
> 
> Kind regards, Roald

Hi,
well, i have thought on the issue and i think that i have found a 
solution that does not imply renaming the keywords. It mixes a bit the 
suggestions i got here and this is how.

My application will have a text editor (with, hopefully, code 
highlighting) a text-box to insert "instant" commands and a text-box for 
the output and a window for the "turtle".

With the "instant commands" you can insert little pieces of python code 
and see instantly their result both as a turtle movement or textual 
output. With the text-editor you can load/save/write whole python 
programs and execute or debug them step by step.

The way to track the code could use this technique 
http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2005/04/20/tracing_python_code.html 
which gives me exactly the number of line of code under execution and 
also stops the code until the function "treaceit" returns. This will 
allow me to insert breakpoints, execute the code line by line, and so on 
(or at least this is the theory).

Now. Since i get the number of the line i don't need anymore to have the 
language deal with translated keywords. The kid can write the code in 
his/her own language and the program will "translate it back to english" 
before passing them to the embedded python. When i save a source file i 
can save the english version and translate it "on the fly" when i load 
it. I can also intercept error codes and translate them as well, showing 
the kid only what i want him/her to see. So it would be completely 
transparent to the kid and it would notice it only by opening the source 
code via a different text-editor. In this way the files produced are 
100% python files and the kid can disable this feature if he doesn't 
like it. This will also allow me to translate the same piece of code in 
any language i want, with 0 effort and this way will allow kids of 
different nations exchange their code and have it working on their computer.

This seems a good idea to me, it reaches my points without breaking 
compatibility. The kid will see the language in his own language but the 
computer will actually work with the standard-python file.

Once i have this "ready" i can proceed to other steps and try to 
implement other ideas that i have (remember c-robots and p-robots?).

Bye,
   Luca


From g.bogle at auckland.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 16:41:20 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:41:20 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002261319y7e71c958p7bf4f4be60902066@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<50697b2c1002261319y7e71c958p7bf4f4be60902066@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B884000.5040900@auckland.ac.nz>

The point of my question was that sys.path is clearly not being used in this 
case.  When I start Python sys.path includes D:\python26\lib\site-packages which 
seems to be the Python default.  Using sys.path.append I have tried adding both 
D:\python26\lib\site-packages\PyQt4 and D:\python26\lib\site-packages\PyQt4\bin 
to the path, but this has no effect.  So far the only way I've found to make the 
PyQt4 DLLs visible to Python is by copying them from PyQt4\bin into PyQt4.

I've tried adding stuff to the Windows PATH, but that has no effect.

Gib

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Gib Bogle
> <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
>> How can I interrogate Python to find out where it is looking to find the
>> PyQt4 DLLs in a Windows installation?
> 
> import sys
> print(sys.path)
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 16:44:41 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:44:41 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.297.1267219170.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9fc8$grt$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Gib Bogle
> <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
>> How can I interrogate Python to find out where it is looking to find the
>> PyQt4 DLLs in a Windows installation?
> 
> import sys
> print(sys.path)

Note this thread:
http://www.mail-archive.com/pyqt at riverbankcomputing.com/msg20121.html

I'm starting to get the impression that Windows is the 'poor relation' in the 
Python family ...


From sanelson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:54:33 2010
From: sanelson at gmail.com (Stephen Nelson-Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:54:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Problems uploading to IIS using FTP over SSL
References: <mailman.266.1267193120.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <731c347e-df4d-4ff8-af82-22380abc8ad2@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 2:05?pm, Stephen Nelson-Smith <sanel... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,

I'm sorry - I hadn't realised that python-list ended up here as well.
Sincere apologies for double-posting.

S.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:56:55 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:56:55 -0600
Subject: random.gauss: range
In-Reply-To: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm9g37$d0r$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-26 15:26 PM, pistacchio wrote:
> hi,
> i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
> number between a given range?

You don't. The Gaussian distribution has infinite range. The best you can do 
with the standard library is to keep sampling until you get a number inside your 
desired range. If you aren't careful about your choice of parameters, this could 
waste a lot of time.

> like, from 0 to 20 with an average of
> 10? and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied
> it, so mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.

Study it:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

mu is the mean, the location of the central peak. sigma is the standard 
deviation, which controls the width of the peak. Larger sigma means wider and 
shorter peak.

You may want another distribution, like random.betavariate():

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_distribution

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 26 16:59:16 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:59:16 +0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <4B881200.5060505@sequans.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4B881200.5060505@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hm9g7r$dod$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>>>    
>>>> [stuff]
>>>>       
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>>
>>>     
>> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
>> wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
>> though.
>>   
> 
> I agree to that statement, I was surprised that mov AX,BX assumes that 
> BX is the source, and AX the destination. I never programmed in 
> assembler though.
> 
> JM

The obvious solution to this problem is to write the assembler code in 
your own way, and then use Python to change the code to the appropriate 
target.  Any of the solutions listed here would presumably suffice.
http://nedbatchelder.com/text/python-parsers.html

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From python at bdurham.com  Fri Feb 26 17:10:30 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:10:30 -0500
Subject: How to determine if threads are active in an application?
Message-ID: <1267222230.24180.1362126901@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Is there technique to determine if threads are active in a Python
application?

The only technique I can think of is to check sys.modules for
thread and threading. But this will only show whether these
modules were imported - not whether there are actually background
threads running.

Motivation: We were debugging a customer's python application and
they had a module that was unknowningly (to both us and them)
creating threads in certain situations. This made our debugging
process more complicated because there were side effects
happening at unexpected times that we couldn't explain. The
module in question was supplied to us as a compiled module that
was considered fully tested by the customer. To prevent this
confusion in the future, we're looking for a way that we can
detect threads are active while we're debugging without having to
manually step through every line of code in every module to check
for unexpected thread creation.

Thanks,
Malcolm
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From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Fri Feb 26 17:22:09 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:22:09 +1300
Subject: Quoting quotes
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<bda4748c-49ec-4383-81c1-7baaae567180@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm9hih$mth$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message 
<bda4748c-49ec-4383-81c1-7baaae567180 at l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, William 
Lohrmann wrote:

> The best thing would be to backslash the single quote: print 'The play
> "All\'s Well That Ends Well"'

Backslash-type escapes are the most general solution to this type of 
problem. They?re also the easiest to apply automatically:

    for ch in input_string :
         if ch in troublesome_lot :
             output backslash + tame representation of ch
         else :
             output ch
         #end if
    #end for


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 26 17:25:59 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:25:59 +0000
Subject: Six Minutes and fourty two seconds
In-Reply-To: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
References: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
Message-ID: <hm9hpu$ja2$1@dough.gmane.org>

Tobiah wrote:
> Now that I use python, this is the amount of time 
> per day that I spend adding forgotten semicolons while
> debugging other languages.

You think that's bad?  I've spent hours today converting the J language 
that I don't dare mention to Python.  Once in a blue moon I came across 
a line of code that actually did something. The rest of it was 
boilerplate.  I'm never ever going to sin again, because if I do, I will 
be reincarnated as a J type, or worse still, I C(++) type.

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.

<duck>
No that's a swaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!
</duck>



From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 26 17:33:10 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:33:10 -0500
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
In-Reply-To: <22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B884C26.8010605@optimum.net>

On 2/26/2010 4:21 PM, qtrimble wrote:
>
> fileIN = open(r"C:\testing.txt", "r")
>
> for line in fileIN:
>      year = line[3:7]
>      day = line[7:10]
>      print year, day
>
> This is good since i can get the year and day of year into a variable
> but I haven't gotten any further.

That's an excellent start. Here's another hint ...

There are two kinds of lines in your input file:

* lines that begin with "wer"
* all other lines

So you need an if-else section to process the lines in the input file:

   if line.startswith("wer"):
       # use the contents of *line* to assign values
       # to variables *year* and *day*
       ...
   else:
       # use the current values of *year* and *day*
       # to process the numbers extracted from *line*

Most likely, you'll also need these functions:

* split() -- chop a string into pieces
* int() -- string-to-integer conversion

HTH,
John





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 26 17:38:58 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 14:38:58 -0800
Subject: Dictionary or =?windows-1252?Q?Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.296.1267217819.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9ii2$j2d$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.296.1267217819.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Patrick Sabin  <patrick.just4fun at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>A database usually stores data on disk and not in RAM. However you could 
>use sqlite with :memory:, so that it runs in RAM.

The OP wants transparent caching, so :memory: wouldn't work.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From luismgz at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 17:41:04 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:41:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4bc22c5-0654-4e4b-b25f-12fe5257f68e@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 12:58?pm, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy

For small quantities of data, dicts are ok, but if your app
continually handles (and add) large quantities of data, you should use
a database.
You can start with sqlite (which is bundled with python) and it's much
easier to use than any other relational database out there.
You don't need to install anything, since it's not a database server.
You simply save your databases as files.
If you don't know sql (the standard language used to query databases),
I recomend this online tutorial: http://www.sqlcourse.com/

Good luck!
Luis


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 26 17:42:22 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 14:42:22 -0800
Subject: Dictionary or Database‹Please advise
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <hm9ioe$oto$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <roy-C4F98B.11395126022010 at 70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>
>Whatever database you pick, you're almost certainly going to end up having 
>to install it wherever you install your application.  There's no such thing 
>as a universally available database that you can expect to be available 
>everywhere.

...unless you use SQLite.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 26 17:46:36 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 14:46:36 -0800
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm9j0c$6jc$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Jeremy  <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
>the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
>using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
>before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
>I also need platform independence without having to install a database
>and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
>something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

If you're serious about needing both a disk-based backing store *and*
getting maximum use/performance from your RAM, you probably will need to
combine memcached with one of the other solutions offered.

But given your other requirement of not installing a DB, your best option
will certainly be SQLite.  You can use :memory: databases, but that will
require shuttling data to disk manually.  I suggest that you start with
plain SQLite and only worry if you prove (repeat, PROVE) that DB is your
bottleneck.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 17:52:49 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:52:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6a1f738f-400b-458f-80f6-ac4cc097f2c2@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 7:58?am, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

If you had wall-to-wall unit tests, you could swap the database in
incrementally ("Deprecation Refactor").

You would just add one database table, switch one client of one
dictionary to use that table, pass all the tests, and integrate.
Repeat until nobody uses the dicts, then trivially retire them.

If you don't have unit tests, then you have a bigger problem than
memory requirements. (You can throw $50 hardware at that!)

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 26 18:19:24 2010
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:19:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> 
	<22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <121bb934-6d62-482a-a5c2-848668ce237d@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 2:21?pm, qtrimble <qtrim... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 4:14?pm, OdarR <olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> > > below is just a sample. ?There are well over 500,000 lines that need
> > > processed.
>
> > > wer1999001
> > > ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> > > ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
> > > wer1999002
> > > ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> > > ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
>
> > did you try something as a working basis ?
>
> > Olivier
>
> Yes but it's very simple -
>
> fileIN = open(r"C:\testing.txt", "r")
>
> for line in fileIN:
> ? ? year = line[3:7]
> ? ? day = line[7:10]
> ? ? print year, day
>
> This is good since i can get the year and day of year into a variable
> but I haven't gotten any further.

How about something like (untested):

  for line in fileIN:
       if line.startswith ("wer"):
           year = line[3:7]
           day = line[7:10]
	else:
	   print "%s-%s %s" % (year, day, line.strip())

You can adjust the details as needed...


From maygeo at netplus.ch  Fri Feb 26 18:32:27 2010
From: maygeo at netplus.ch (Raphael Mayoraz)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:27 -0800
Subject: Variable definition
Message-ID: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>

Hello,

I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common 
prefix.
Something like this:

varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
    'myPrefix' + key = value

I know this is illegal, but there must be a trick somewhere.

Thanks,

Raphael





From aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 18:48:56 2010
From: aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:48:56 -0600
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
In-Reply-To: <4B884C26.8010605@optimum.net>
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> 
	<22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<4B884C26.8010605@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002261548v2ee92dfgb004df33d8e7f564@mail.gmail.com>

I smell homework
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 26 18:58:54 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:58:54 +1100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<76cde733-17b2-41ae-8e59-734e4c5d6fd6@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<87635k41kd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<8777b981-6ca8-49b2-93d8-4b37b2f99b79@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87pr3r35xd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> On 26 feb, 12:35, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > A common convention is to have a ?README? text file, written in
> > reStructuredText for rendering to various output formats as part of
> > the documentation. You could then have the ?setup.py? program read
> > the contents of that file and use it (or a slice of it) for the
> > package description.
> I get the 'README.txt' file to get the long description but I use the
> docstring because each package should include a short desciption about
> it.

I keep both in the same file:

===== README =====
FooBar, a library for spangulation.

The FooBar library provides thribbles which can be
easily frobnicated for spangulation in a sntandard manner.

Other spangulation libraries are far less weebly than this
one, which is the choice of discerning grognards everywhere.
=====

Then, the description fields are derived by splitting the file's
contents on the first paragraph break:

=====
from distutils.core import setup

readme_file = open("README")

short_description, long_description = (
    d.strip()
    for d in readme_file.read().split(u'\n\n', 1))

setup(
    # ?
    description=short_description,
    long_description=long_description,
    # ?
    )
=====

-- 
 \      ?Some forms of reality are so horrible we refuse to face them, |
  `\     unless we are trapped into it by comedy. To label any subject |
_o__)        unsuitable for comedy is to admit defeat.? ?Peter Sellers |
Ben Finney


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 19:00:32 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:00:32 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.297.1267219170.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B8860A0.6050600@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz>

The PyQt4 problem results from having copies of the Qt DLLs in directories that 
are in the PATH, as Doug Bell discovered.  In my case I have two programs that 
use Qt, AMD CodeAnalyst and Matlab.  If I rename BOTH these directories I can 
import the PyQt4 modules.

Since this behaviour did not occur with Python 2.5 and the previous PyQt I was 
using (4.5, I think), it seems that something has changed either with Python 2.6 
or with PyQt 4.7.

It would be very nice to learn how to fix this without renaming directories, 
since I use Matlab frequently.

Gib


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 19:01:11 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:01:11 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.297.1267219170.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9nc7$52n$2@speranza.aioe.org>

The PyQt4 problem results from having copies of the Qt DLLs in directories that 
are in the PATH, as Doug Bell discovered.  In my case I have two programs that 
use Qt, AMD CodeAnalyst and Matlab.  If I rename BOTH these directories I can 
import the PyQt4 modules.

Since this behaviour did not occur with Python 2.5 and the previous PyQt I was 
using (4.5, I think), it seems that something has changed either with Python 2.6 
or with PyQt 4.7.

It would be very nice to learn how to fix this without renaming directories, 
since I use Matlab frequently.

Gib


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 19:02:40 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 00:02:40 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> Reminiscent of:
> 
> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX


That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking people 
would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.


> And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:
> 
> ; This is a comment

Which might be a good comment, if it were part of an unfamiliar file 
format where the reader were not expected to know what is a comment and 
what is significant. For instance, I've seen similar comments at the top 
of config files.


However, I'm pretty sure that a comment like this is inexcusable:


x = x + 1  # Add one to x.



-- 
Steven


From routb3d at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:06:56 2010
From: routb3d at gmail.com (Routb3d)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:06:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
Message-ID: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7 pro.

I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting the
files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still returns
this.. Any ideas?

>>> import sys
>>> sys.path
['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib', 'C:\\Program Files\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
\Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-
win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\
\site-packages']
>>> import cv

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
    import cv
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Fri Feb 26 19:15:22 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:15:22 -0000
Subject: Variable definition
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8rezwpta8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:32:27 -0000, Raphael Mayoraz <maygeo at netplus.ch>  
wrote:

> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common  
> prefix.

Why?

No seriously, how do you think this is going to solve whatever problem you  
clearly think it will solve?

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 26 19:22:24 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:22:24 +0100
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9ok3$2rr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Raphael Mayoraz:
> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common 
> prefix.
> Something like this:
> 
> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>    'myPrefix' + key = value
> 
> I know this is illegal, but there must be a trick somewhere.

In general you'll IMHO be better off with the variables as attributes of an object.

If you want them to be modifiable then you can do

   class Whatever: pass

   myPrefix = Whatever()
   myPrefix.a = 'a'
   myPrefix.b = 'b'
   myPrefix.c = 'c'

If you want them to be sort of constants (weasel words intentional) then you 
might do (Python 3.x)  --  disclaimer: off-the-cuff & I'm not sure if that 
function is called 'namedtuple' but I think you'll find it anyway  --

   import collections

   Color = namedtuple( "Color", "red green blue" )
   myPrefix = Color( 'a', 'b', 'c' )


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:30:54 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:30:54 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <201002261630.54323.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
> I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7 pro.
> 
> I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting the
> files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still returns
> this.. Any ideas?

Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's certainly not in 
the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python 2.6.4...

> 
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.path
> 
> ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib', 'C:\\Program Files\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
> \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
> 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-
> win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\
> \site-packages']
> 
> >>> import cv
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
>     import cv
> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----
Rami Chowdhury
"Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's Saying
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:41:43 2010
From: aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:41:43 -0600
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <hm9ok3$2rr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<hm9ok3$2rr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002261641y38b53cdatafcdc61ef52e487a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> * Raphael Mayoraz:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
>> prefix.
>> Something like this:
>>
>> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
>> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>>   'myPrefix' + key = value
>>
>> I know this is illegal, but there must be a trick somewhere.
>>
>
> In general you'll IMHO be better off with the variables as attributes of an
> object.
>
> If you want them to be modifiable then you can do
>
>  class Whatever: pass
>
>  myPrefix = Whatever()
>  myPrefix.a = 'a'
>  myPrefix.b = 'b'
>  myPrefix.c = 'c'
>
> If you want them to be sort of constants (weasel words intentional) then
> you might do (Python 3.x)  --  disclaimer: off-the-cuff & I'm not sure if
> that function is called 'namedtuple' but I think you'll find it anyway  --
>
>  import collections
>
>  Color = namedtuple( "Color", "red green blue" )
>  myPrefix = Color( 'a', 'b', 'c' )
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

you can use setattr to do your bidding for setting variable like this. That
is how I've been able to do it. Not sure if its the best solution, but it is
a solution. I just don't know how to use setattr without it being in a
class.

>>> class stuff(object):
...  def __init__(self):
...   pass
...  def duuit(self,abc):
...   for k,v in abc.items():
...    setattr(self,"prefix_%s"%k,v)
...
>>> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
>>> abc=stuff()
>>> abc.duuit(varDic)
>>> dir(abc)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__format__',
'__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__',
'__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__',
'__str__', '__subclasshook__', '__weakref__', 'duuit', 'prefix_blue',
'prefix_green', 'prefix_red']
>>>

-Alex Goretoy
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From pistacchio at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:46:10 2010
From: pistacchio at gmail.com (pistacchio)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:46:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: random.gauss: range
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.298.1267221429.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7a49b554-2b53-4878-8150-89fafba210e9@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

thanks, betadistribute did the work... and i learned a new thing!

On 26 Feb, 22:56, Robert Kern <robert.k...gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-02-26 15:26 PM, pistacchio wrote:
>
> > hi,
> > i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
> > number between a given range?
>
> You don't. The Gaussian distribution has infinite range. The best you can do
> with the standard library is to keep sampling until you get a number inside your
> desired range. If you aren't careful about your choice of parameters, this could
> waste a lot of time.
>
> > like, from 0 to 20 with an average of
> > 10? and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied
> > it, so mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.
>
> Study it:
>
> ? ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution
>
> mu is the mean, the location of the central peak. sigma is the standard
> deviation, which controls the width of the peak. Larger sigma means wider and
> shorter peak.
>
> You may want another distribution, like random.betavariate():
>
> ? ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_distribution
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
> ? that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
> ? an underlying truth."
> ? ?-- Umberto Eco



From python at rcn.com  Fri Feb 26 19:46:21 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:46:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: random.gauss: range
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1cb0bf77-a539-41ff-89f3-b55e423a1b32@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 1:26?pm, pistacchio <pistacc... at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi,
> i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
> number between a given range? like, from 0 to 20 with an average of
> 10? and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied
> it, so mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.

Try random.randrange() and random.triangular().
They are both easy to use and do not require you
to enter parameters that you don't understand.

FWIW, mu and sigma refer to the average and standard deviation
of a normal distribution.


Raymond



From john at castleamber.com  Fri Feb 26 19:47:26 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:47:26 -0600
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>
>> Reminiscent of:
>> 
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>
>
> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking people 
> would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.

Eh? It's a bad comment, it's of the same quality as:

> x = x + 1  # Add one to x.

You think the former is good because (I guess) you are not familiar with
the language. The same reason why beginners comment their code like in
your example.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 26 19:54:53 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:54:53 +0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B886D5D.4080908@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> 
>> Reminiscent of:
>>
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
> 
> 
> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking people 
> would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
> 
[snip]
If you're reading and/or writing at assembly language level then you
should know what it does anyway!

The assembly languages of virtually all the processors that I've come
across put the destination first, eg. x86:

     SUB AX,BX
     MOV AX,BX

which does:

     AX := AX - BX
     AX := BX

and ARM:

     SUB R0,R1,R2
     MOV R0,R1

which does:

     R0 := R1 - R2
     R0 := R1

The only assembly language I know of which does it the other way round
is 68x00:

     SUB D0,D1
     MOVE D0,D1

which does:

     D1 := D1 - D0
     D1 := D0

I know which I prefer! :-)


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 26 20:10:26 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:10:26 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.308.1267232090.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.308.1267232090.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9re5$ih8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* MRAB:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>>
>> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking 
>> people would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
>>
> [snip]
> If you're reading and/or writing at assembly language level then you
> should know what it does anyway!
> 
> The assembly languages of virtually all the processors that I've come
> across put the destination first, eg. x86:
> 
>     SUB AX,BX
>     MOV AX,BX
> 
> which does:
> 
>     AX := AX - BX
>     AX := BX
> 

A bit off-topic, but there are /two/ main syntaxes for x86 assembly, namely 
Intel syntax (the above syntax, used by MASM, old TASM etc.) and AT&T syntax.


<example>
C:\test> echo int main(){ int x = 42; } >blah.cpp

C:\test> g++ blah.cpp -S -masm=intel

C:\test> type blah.s | find "42"
         mov     DWORD PTR [ebp-4], 42

C:\test> g++ blah.cpp -S -masm=att

C:\test> type blah.s | find "42"
         movl    $42, -4(%ebp)

C:\test> _
</example>


Personally I find the AT&T syntax very hard to read.

All those percent signs hurt my eyes...




> and ARM:
> 
>     SUB R0,R1,R2
>     MOV R0,R1
> 
> which does:
> 
>     R0 := R1 - R2
>     R0 := R1
> 
> The only assembly language I know of which does it the other way round
> is 68x00:
> 
>     SUB D0,D1
>     MOVE D0,D1
> 
> which does:
> 
>     D1 := D1 - D0
>     D1 := D0
> 
> I know which I prefer! :-)

Cheers,

- Alf


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 26 20:15:16 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:15:16 -0500
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>
References: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>
Message-ID: <4B887224.2080805@optimum.net>

On 2/26/2010 6:32 PM, Raphael Mayoraz wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
> prefix.
> Something like this:
>
> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
> 'myPrefix' + key = value
>

No trick, just swap a new key-value pair for each existing pair:

   for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
       varDic[myPrefix + key] = value
       del varDict[key]

Just make sure that *myPrefix* isn't an empty string!

-John


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 21:12:23 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:12:23 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <dcc3ec881002261742p363dc9a2w2811ea472a4411@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<201002261630.54323.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261742p363dc9a2w2811ea472a4411@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002261812.23265.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Friday 26 February 2010 17:42:04 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I tried putting the files from
> 
>  C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib
> 
> too
> 
> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages
> 
> and Python still wont import..
> 
> I adjusted the environment variables to try and import maya.standalone but
> no dice on that either.
> 

Sorry, you've still not told me where you expect it to be. Could you let us 
know what .py files you can see in C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib ?

> 
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rami Chowdhury 
<rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
> > On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
> > > I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7 pro.
> > > 
> > > I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting the
> > > files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still returns
> > > this.. Any ideas?
> > 
> > Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's certainly not
> > in
> > the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python 2.6.4...
> > 
> > > >>> import sys
> > > >>> sys.path
> > > 
> > > ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib', 'C:\\Program Files\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
> > > \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
> > > 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-
> > > win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\
> > > \site-packages']
> > > 
> > > >>> import cv
> > > 
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
> > >   
> > >     import cv
> > > 
> > > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> > 
> > ----
> > Rami Chowdhury
> > "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's
> > Saying 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


----
Rami Chowdhury
"Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Feb 26 21:16:25 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:16:25 -0800
Subject: Dictionary or =?utf-8?Q?Database=E2=80=94Please?= advise
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xeik7h18m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> writes:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?

What are you trying to do?  Yes, a database would let you use disk
instead of ram, but the slowdown might be intolerable depending on the
access pattern.  You really have to consider what the whole application
is up to, and what the database is doing for you.  It might be imposing
a high overhead to create benefits (e.g. transaction isolation) that
you're not actually using.

Somehow I've managed to do a lot of programming on large datasets
without ever using databases very much.  I'm not sure that's a good
thing; but anyway, a lot of times you can do better with externally
sorted flat files, near-line search engines, etc. than you can with
databases.

If the size of your data is fixed or is not growing too fast, and it's
larger than your computer's memory by just a moderate amount (e.g. you
have a 2GB computer and 3GB of data), the simplest approach may be to
just buy a few more ram modules and put them in your computer.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 21:21:04 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 02:21:04 GMT
Subject: =?windows-1251?q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please?= advise
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.296.1267217819.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b888190$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:56:47 +0100, Patrick Sabin wrote:

>> Shelve looks like an interesting option, but what might pose an issue
>> is that I'm reading the data from a disk instead of memory.  I didn't
>> mention this in my original post, but I was hoping that by using a
>> database it would be more memory efficient in storing data in RAM so I
>> wouldn't have to read from (or swap to/from) disk.
> 
> A database usually stores data on disk and not in RAM. However you could
> use sqlite with :memory:, so that it runs in RAM.

The OP started this thread with:

"I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
the memory requirements are becoming a problem."

So I'm amused that he thinks the solution to running out of memory is to 
run the heavy overhead of a database entirely in memory, instead of 
lightweight dicts :)

My advice is, first try to optimize your use of dicts. Are you holding 
onto large numbers of big dicts that you don't need? Are you making 
unnecessary copies? If so, fix your algorithms.

If you can't optimize the dicts anymore, then move to a proper database. 
Don't worry about whether it is on-disk or not, databases tend to be 
pretty fast regardless, and it is better to run your application a little 
bit more slowly than to not run it at all because it ran out of memory 
halfway through processing the data.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 21:52:54 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 02:52:54 GMT
Subject: random.gauss: range
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b888905$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:26:44 -0800, pistacchio wrote:

> hi,
> i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
> number between a given range? like, from 0 to 20 with an average of 10?

That's not what a Gaussian distribution does. It has an infinite range. 
Are you sure you want a Gaussian, and not a uniform distribution or a 
triangular distribution?

You could pin the values to the appropriate range:

def pinned_gaussian(a, b, mu, sigma):
    """Return a Gaussian random number pinned to [a, b]."""
    return min(b, max(a, random.gauss(mu, sigma)))

but that will distort the randomness slightly: you will have a slight 
excess of values equal to a and b than you otherwise might expect. You 
might not care, though, particularly if the sigma is very small relative 
to the minimum and maximum you want.

Alternatively, you could use this approach:

def truncated_gauss(a, b, mu, sigma):
    """Return a random number from a truncated Gaussian distribution."""
    while 1:
        x = random.gauss(mu, sigma)
        if a <= x <= b:
            return x



> and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied it, so
> mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.

mu is the average -- in your example above, mu would be 10.

sigma is the standard deviation of the random variable. It tells you how 
much the random variable actually varies: if sigma is close to zero, most 
of the numbers will be close to mu and the graph will look like a spike; 
if sigma is large, it will be very broad and flat.

Statistically, the following rules apply:

68% of the numbers will be between (mu - sigma) and (mu + sigma).
95% of the numbers will be between (mu - 2*sigma) and (mu + 2*sigma).
99.7% of the numbers will be between (mu - 3*sigma) and (mu + 3*sigma).

(the percentages are approximate, not exact). So you could get a 
reasonable approximation to a normal distribution truncated between 0 and 
20 with:

truncated_gauss(0, 20, 10, 10.0/3)




-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 22:15:47 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 03:15:47 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:47:26 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
> 
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>> 
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>>
>> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking
>> people would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
> 
> Eh? It's a bad comment, it's of the same quality as:
> 
>> x = x + 1  # Add one to x.
> 
> You think the former is good because (I guess) you are not familiar with
> the language. The same reason why beginners comment their code like in
> your example.

Well, in the second example, x+1 could not possibly be anything other 
than adding one to x in any language, programming or human: using "+" for 
addition is close enough to universal these days. Unless x is some fancy 
object that plays operator overloading tricks, then what else could x+1 
be?

On the other hand, mv AX,BX is not only ambiguous but in the example 
given the move occurs in the counter-intuitive direction, at least for 
English-speakers and probably most speakers of European languages. So 
even an experienced coder might like the reminder that this specific 
assembly language moves things backwards compared to his intuition, or 
compared to the way the rest of the language does things.

Admittedly an experienced coder might be so used to that syntax that he 
no longer needs the comment, in which case he might find it unnecessary. 
But comments aren't written for the benefit of people who find it 
obvious. They're written for everyone else. ANY comment could be 
dismissed as unnecessary for somebody who is so familiar with the 
language and code in question that it is obvious what it is doing.

Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions according 
to the arguments. So you might have:

mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX
mv @CX,DX ; move contents of @CX into DX

Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something like 
that.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 22:20:18 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 03:20:18 GMT
Subject: Variable definition
References: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>
	<mailman.309.1267233298.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b888f72$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:15:16 -0500, John Posner wrote:

> On 2/26/2010 6:32 PM, Raphael Mayoraz wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
>> prefix.
>> Something like this:
>>
>> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'} for key, value in
>> varDic.iteritems(): 'myPrefix' + key = value
>>
>>
> No trick, just swap a new key-value pair for each existing pair:
> 
>    for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>        varDic[myPrefix + key] = value
>        del varDict[key]
> 
> Just make sure that *myPrefix* isn't an empty string!

How does that answer the original poster's question?

Admittedly, your solution is the Right Way To Do It, but what the OP 
wants is to go from a dict {'spam': 42} to a named variable myPrefixspam 
= 42, which is a totally bogus thing to do, but incredibly common among 
n00bs and refugees from horrible languages that allow that sort of 
abomination.



-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 26 22:25:47 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:25:47 +0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8890BB.8080902@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:47:26 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
>>
>>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>>
>>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>>
>>> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking
>>> people would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
>> Eh? It's a bad comment, it's of the same quality as:
>>
>>> x = x + 1  # Add one to x.
>> You think the former is good because (I guess) you are not familiar with
>> the language. The same reason why beginners comment their code like in
>> your example.
> 
> Well, in the second example, x+1 could not possibly be anything other 
> than adding one to x in any language, programming or human: using "+" for 
> addition is close enough to universal these days. Unless x is some fancy 
> object that plays operator overloading tricks, then what else could x+1 
> be?
> 
> On the other hand, mv AX,BX is not only ambiguous but in the example 
> given the move occurs in the counter-intuitive direction, at least for 
> English-speakers and probably most speakers of European languages. So 
> even an experienced coder might like the reminder that this specific 
> assembly language moves things backwards compared to his intuition, or 
> compared to the way the rest of the language does things.
> 
> Admittedly an experienced coder might be so used to that syntax that he 
> no longer needs the comment, in which case he might find it unnecessary. 
> But comments aren't written for the benefit of people who find it 
> obvious. They're written for everyone else. ANY comment could be 
> dismissed as unnecessary for somebody who is so familiar with the 
> language and code in question that it is obvious what it is doing.
> 
> Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions according 
> to the arguments. So you might have:
> 
> mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX
> mv @CX,DX ; move contents of @CX into DX
> 
> Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something like 
> that.
> 
Ah, yes, "apparently". That's like saying "someone down the pub told
me...". ;-)


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 26 22:33:53 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:33:53 -0500
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <4b888f72$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>	<mailman.309.1267233298.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b888f72$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8892A1.7020902@optimum.net>

On 2/26/2010 10:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:15:16 -0500, John Posner wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2010 6:32 PM, Raphael Mayoraz wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
>>> prefix.
>>> Something like this:
>>>
>>> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'} for key, value in
>>> varDic.iteritems(): 'myPrefix' + key = value
>>>
>>>
>> No trick, just swap a new key-value pair for each existing pair:
>>
>>     for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>>         varDic[myPrefix + key] = value
>>         del varDict[key]
>>
>> Just make sure that *myPrefix* isn't an empty string!
>
> How does that answer the original poster's question?
>
> Admittedly, your solution is the Right Way To Do It, but what the OP
> wants is to go from a dict {'spam': 42} to a named variable myPrefixspam
> = 42, which is a totally bogus thing to do, but incredibly common among
> n00bs and refugees from horrible languages that allow that sort of
> abomination.

Yup, I misinterpreted the OP's intent. I guess my mind just couldn't 
encompass the enormity of his intended transgression.

-John



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 22:33:57 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 03:33:57 GMT
Subject: Variable definition
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b8892a5$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:27 -0800, Raphael Mayoraz wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
> prefix.
> Something like this:
> 
> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>     'myPrefix' + key = value
> 
> I know this is illegal, but there must be a trick somewhere.


The Right answer is:

Don't do that. How can you use a variable without knowing its name?

Suppose you do this:

for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
    'myPrefix_' + key = value

and then later you want:

print myPrefix_blue

But hang on. How could you possibly know it is called myPrefix_blue and 
not myPrefix_cyan or myPrefix_turquoise?

You can't possibly know, so in general defining a named variable is 
useless. What you want instead is:

some_colour = 'blue'  # get this at runtime
print varDic[some_colour]

You don't even need the myPrefix, but if you really want it:

for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
    varDic['myPrefix_' + key] = value
    del varDic[key]

some_colour = 'blue'  # get this at runtime
print varDic['myPrefix_' + some_colour]

or any one of a million variations on this idea.

For some very, very rare situations you might need to programatically 
define variables. The right way to do that is:

globals()['myPrefix_turquoise'] = 42

or 

setattr(module, 'myPrefix_turquoise'] = 42

or even:

exec "'myPrefix_turquoise' = 42"

but if you are thinking of using that last one with data coming from an 
untrusted user (and nearly all users are untrusted!), then DON'T. That is 
a huge security hole. And it's also very slow.



-- 
Steven


From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Feb 26 22:51:17 2010
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:51:17 -0600
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iehm57-m7l1.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>

On 2/26/2010 9:25 PM, MRAB wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:47:26 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>>>
>>>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>>>
>>>> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking
>>>> people would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
>>> Eh? It's a bad comment, it's of the same quality as:
>>>
>>>> x = x + 1  # Add one to x.
>>> You think the former is good because (I guess) you are not familiar with
>>> the language. The same reason why beginners comment their code like in
>>> your example.
>>
>> Well, in the second example, x+1 could not possibly be anything other
>> than adding one to x in any language, programming or human: using "+"
>> for addition is close enough to universal these days. Unless x is some
>> fancy object that plays operator overloading tricks, then what else
>> could x+1 be?
>>
>> On the other hand, mv AX,BX is not only ambiguous but in the example
>> given the move occurs in the counter-intuitive direction, at least for
>> English-speakers and probably most speakers of European languages. So
>> even an experienced coder might like the reminder that this specific
>> assembly language moves things backwards compared to his intuition, or
>> compared to the way the rest of the language does things.
>>
>> Admittedly an experienced coder might be so used to that syntax that
>> he no longer needs the comment, in which case he might find it
>> unnecessary. But comments aren't written for the benefit of people who
>> find it obvious. They're written for everyone else. ANY comment could
>> be dismissed as unnecessary for somebody who is so familiar with the
>> language and code in question that it is obvious what it is doing.
>>
>> Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions
>> according to the arguments. So you might have:
>>
>> mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX
>> mv @CX,DX ; move contents of @CX into DX
>>
>> Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something
>> like that.
>>
> Ah, yes, "apparently". That's like saying "someone down the pub told
> me...". ;-)

It's interesting that my silly example raised this amount of
commentary. My general view about all this is that comments should be
written on the assumption that the reader knows the language in
question. It is not the purpose of a comment to provide a tutorial on
the language (unless you're actually writing a tutorial program).

Rather, a comment should illuminate the *logic* of the activity by
either amplifying, clarifying, or otherwise providing a rationale' for
the code in question. Demanding that programmers provide comments
about the syntax and semantics of the language is - to me - absurd.

For example, some time ago, I was doing some programming with embedded
PIC-based hardware. The comments for that code are intended to
illuminate how the *hardware* was being exploited, not how to use PIC
asm:

...

scan:
		incf	current_col,F	; pickup next column to scan
		movlw	MAX_COL+1	; if current_col > MAX_COL then
		subwf	current_col,W   ; we just did last column, so start over
		btfss	STATUS,Z	; zero means we need to start over
		goto	key_scan	; nope, go look for key hits
		clrf	current_col	; yes, reinit column counter
		goto	scan

...



The only possible exception to this I can think of is when there is
some non-obvious side-effect (i.e. language and/or hardware is
"misfeatured"):

                mov 	A,B    ; Moving A into B also will also arm
                               ; the nuclear warhead if the CPU is
                               ; hotter than 110C


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 22:53:53 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:53:53 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <dcc3ec881002261947s4892c694g1a0e514371a81479@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<201002261630.54323.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261742p363dc9a2w2811ea472a4411@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002261812.23265.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261947s4892c694g1a0e514371a81479@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06689ACA-B76B-4558-B121-A175CEB50C24@gmail.com>



On Feb 26, 2010, at 19:47 , Isaiah Coberly wrote:

> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages
> 
> no .py files here..
> 
> cv.pyd
> libcv.dll.a
> 
> 
> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages\opencv
> 
> _init_.py
> matlan_syntax.py
> adaptors.py
> cv.py
> 

It looks to me like 'opencv' is structured as a package, from which you should be able to import and work with Python libraries. Have you tried putting the above site-packages directory in sys.path:

import sys; sys.path.append('C:\\OpenCV2.0\\Python2.6\\Lib\\site-packages')

and then doing:

from opencv import cv

?

> Did I still need to compile this even though it was a win 32 installer?

I don't think so, no -- AFAIK the .pyd files are compiled CPython extension modules, so it looks like they're all compiled for you.

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 26 February 2010 17:42:04 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> > Thanks for the reply.
> >
> > I tried putting the files from
> >
> >  C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib
> >
> > too
> >
> > C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages
> >
> > and Python still wont import..
> >
> > I adjusted the environment variables to try and import maya.standalone but
> > no dice on that either.
> >
> 
> Sorry, you've still not told me where you expect it to be. Could you let us
> know what .py files you can see in C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib ?
> 
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
> > > On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
> > > > I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7 pro.
> > > >
> > > > I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting the
> > > > files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still returns
> > > > this.. Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's certainly not
> > > in
> > > the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python 2.6.4...
> > >
> > > > >>> import sys
> > > > >>> sys.path
> > > >
> > > > ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib', 'C:\\Program Files\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
> > > > \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
> > > > 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-
> > > > win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\
> > > > \site-packages']
> > > >
> > > > >>> import cv
> > > >
> > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > >   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
> > > >
> > > >     import cv
> > > >
> > > > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Rami Chowdhury
> > > "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's
> > > Saying 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)
> 
> 
> ----
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)
> 

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From darcy at druid.net  Fri Feb 26 23:02:35 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:02:35 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20100226230235.fcbd4011.darcy@druid.net>

On 27 Feb 2010 00:02:40 GMT
Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> > mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
> 
> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking people 
> would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.

But it isn't English, it's assembler.   If someone doesn't know that
assembler they have no business trying to work in it.

A good comment would be "move number of sheep into accumulator" or
something equally as descriptive.  A person who knows the assembler
knows that the BX register will be copied (not "moved" btw) into the AX
register.  What they want from the comment is some idea why.

Yes, understanding assembler is hard.  You aren't going to learn it
from the comments.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Feb 26 23:11:15 2010
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:11:15 +1100
Subject: How to end TCP socket data while using readline()?
In-Reply-To: <273a2d1e-cff5-4759-a59d-6ccfefddfa40@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <273a2d1e-cff5-4759-a59d-6ccfefddfa40@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100227041115.GA24869@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Feb2010 10:39, Arjun <arjun.chennu at gmail.com> wrote:
| Hi, I have a small script that runs a TCP server. A client connects to
| this server and transmits a stored file line-by-line, and then waits
| for a confirmation "done". However, when I run them the first loop
| never really ends -- as the TCP server keeps expecting more data. I am
| using a file-like-object, and so somehow I have to communicate to the
| server that it is the end-of-file.
| 
| here is some server code
| <snip>
|             sock1.bind(('', port))
|             print "Listening at port: ", port
|             sock1.listen(1)      # listening socket
|             (conn, addr) = sock1.accept()    # connected socket
|             print 'Client (localhost) port: ', addr[1]
| 
|             cf = conn.makefile('r',0)    # file like obj for socket
[...]
|         print 'close'
|         cf.flush()
|         cf.close()
|         sfp.close()
[...]

Too many files. It's not that hard! Or shouldn't be.

| So what I am wondering is:
| 
| 1. Using a file-like object means that the socket becomes uni-
| directional, until the mode of the file object is changed from 'r' to
| 'w' (or vice versa). This seems inefficient, and rather unPythonesque.
| Can somebody tell me if there is a more elegant way of receiving all
| the lines from the client, and then sending a "done" message to the
| client?

Get the socket. It is a file descriptor (or in may be a python "socket"
object with a file descriptor inside).

Open _two_ "file" objects on it using
  from_file = os.fdopen(fd_of_socket, "r")
  to_file = os.fdopen(fd_of_socket, "w").

Use the same:
  print >>to_file, 'close'
  to_file.flush()
method as you're using already.
Read from to_file as needed.

The same scheme should work in both server and client:

Don't look for EOF, watch the input line flow.

You might need to use readline() instead of the file-by-line iteration stuff,
which I seem to recall has some sort of problem handing out the "latest"
line.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

It's better, when you're riding with someone you don't know so well, to stick
to the inside line - it's easier to avoid the bits...
        - Barry Sheene


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 23:19:10 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 04:19:10 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.308.1267232090.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b889d3d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:54:53 +0000, MRAB wrote:

> The assembly languages of virtually all the processors that I've come
> across put the destination first, eg. x86:

Incorrect. x86 assembly has two distinct syntax branches, "Intel 
syntax" (which is most common in the Windows world according to 
Wikipedia) and "AT&T syntax".

See for example:

http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gnat_ugn_unw/Basic-Assembler-Syntax.html


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 23:22:39 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 04:22:39 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b889e0f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:25:47 +0000, MRAB wrote:

>> Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions
>> according to the arguments. So you might have:
>> 
>> mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX mv @CX,DX ; move contents of
>> @CX into DX
>> 
>> Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something
>> like that.
>> 
> Ah, yes, "apparently". That's like saying "someone down the pub told
> me...". ;-)

Not down the pub, somebody on Usenet. Are you trying to suggest that 
people might propagate falsehoods on the Internet???


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 23:23:26 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 04:23:26 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<iehm57-m7l1.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <4b889e3d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:51:17 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> The only possible exception to this I can think of is when there is some
> non-obvious side-effect (i.e. language and/or hardware is
> "misfeatured"):
> 
>                 mov 	A,B    ; Moving A into B also will also arm
>                                ; the nuclear warhead if the CPU is
>                                ; hotter than 110C

I had an embedded device that did *just that*, but only on Tuesdays.



-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 26 23:56:20 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:56:20 -0500
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <4b8892a5$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b8892a5$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B88A5F4.2020707@ieee.org>



Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> <snip>
>
> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>     varDic['myPrefix_' + key] = value
>     del varDic[key]
>
> <snip>
Watch out if any of the existing values already startswith 'myPrefix'  
You can end up with trouble just as confusing as if 'myPrefix' is an 
empty string

DaveA


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 00:31:47 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:31:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<a1fb718a-a2d2-40dc-9daf-86bb08ba762d@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d6ef651d-dd1d-4a5b-8610-c91ef91d831b@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> "You're" not getting the point.

If every link has to be accompanied by a summary of all of the
information at the end of it, what point is there to linking?

(Programmers are the _only_ people I know of who complain about the
arduousness of tasks like typing quotes or clicking on links...)


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sat Feb 27 01:03:53 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:03:53 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<mailman.297.1267219170.4577.python-list@python.org>	<4B8860A0.6050600@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz>
	<mailman.321.1267248007.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmacka$lqh$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:00:32 +1300, Gib Bogle
> <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> The PyQt4 problem results from having copies of the Qt DLLs in directories that 
>> are in the PATH, as Doug Bell discovered.  In my case I have two programs that 
>> use Qt, AMD CodeAnalyst and Matlab.  If I rename BOTH these directories I can 
>> import the PyQt4 modules.
>>
> 	And where are those PATH entries relative to the Python ones? You
> may have to add the Python location to PATH /before/ the AMD and Matlab
> entries. {I routinely -- once a year or so -- copy the PATH environment
> variable to an editor, and reorder it so that the stuff I use most
> occurs earlier in the list}

Well diagnosed!  The others were all system environment variables, while the 
PyQt4 PATH is mine, and therefore it was placed at the end.  I've taken the AMD 
and Matlab PATH entries out of the system list and put them after PyQt4 in my 
PATH.  Now peace and harmony are restored to my Python world.

Thanks
Gib


From raghu521987 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 02:28:02 2010
From: raghu521987 at gmail.com (raghumech)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:28:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mobiletrickS
Message-ID: <96e8177b-d03f-4aed-9a26-1001c0f02890@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

FREE CALL  TO ANYWHERE ...... http://mobiletricks777.blogspot.com/


From darnzen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 02:40:02 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:40:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <7uqamjFd2vU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a7679234-2e49-4f0d-a3bd-87f8b1f98b43@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 10:20?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 26.02.10 17:08, schrieb Diez B. Roggisch:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Am 26.02.10 16:57, schrieb darnzen:
> >> On Feb 26, 9:41 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> >>> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>
> >>>> On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> >>>>> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>
> >>>>>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> >>>>>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> >>>>>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> >>>>>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> >>>>>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> >>>>>> #Module main.py
> >>>>>> from A import *
>
> >>>>>> class App:
> >>>>>> def sperg(self):
> >>>>>> self.a = A()
>
> >>>>>> app = App()
> >>>>>> [main loop and such]
> >>>>>> -----------------------------
> >>>>>> # Module A.py
> >>>>>> import main
> >>>>>> class Foo:
> >>>>>> Selves=[]
> >>>>>> def __init__(self):
> >>>>>> Foo.Selves.append(self)
> >>>>>> @staticmethod
> >>>>>> def chum_callback(nType, nP):
> >>>>>> # Need to access function / data in app instance
> >>>>>> app.sperg(nP)
> >>>>>> # Need to access func data in Foo
> >>>>>> # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
> >>>>>> self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
> >>>>>> def getSelf(nP):
> >>>>>> return self.Selves[nP]
>
> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> >>>>>> get at them from the staticmethod.
> >>>>>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app
> >>>>>> instance in
> >>>>>> the A.py module.
>
> >>>>>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> >>>>>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
> >>>>>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> >>>>>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>
> >>>>> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is
> >>>>> the DLL
> >>>>> utilized by ctypes?
>
> >>>>> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would
> >>>>> give
> >>>>> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>
> >>>>> Diez
>
> >>>> __main__.K<< *facepalm* should of tried that!
>
> >>>> Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
> >>>> local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
> >>>> are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>
> >>>> #Function wrapper
> >>>> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int, \
> >>>> POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>
> >>>> #DLL call to register the local callback function
> >>>> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>
> >>>> class A:
> >>>> #Local callback function
> >>>> @staticmethod
> >>>> def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
> >>>> print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
> >>>> print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
> >>>> print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
> >>>> print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
> >>>> pass
>
> >>>> I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
> >>>> say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
> >>>> functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
> >>>> methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
> >>>> way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
> >>>> 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
> >>>> still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
> >>>> methods / properties.
>
> >>> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>
> >>> A.expCallback
>
> >>> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>
> >>> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>
> >>> a = A()
> >>> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>
> >>> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
> >>> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
> >>> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
> >>> like, including bound methods.
>
> >>> Diez
>
> >> Thinking about it some more, I believe I understand why it has to be
> >> staticfunction. To use an bound method would require the wrapper to
> >> include a reference to the instance as follows:
>
> >> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(A), c_int, c_int, \
> >> POINTER(Data_s))(a.Callback)
>
> >> Since a = A(); a.foo() is really A.foo(self). The problem here is that
> >> A is not a ctypes object and I can't change what arguments the DLL
> >> uses in the callback in any case. Rewording my thoughts: a bound
> >> method callback would require 'self' to be the first argument. I can
> >> not make the DLL include 'self' as it doesn't know anything about the
> >> objects in my program. Since I can't pass 'self', it has to be a
> >> staticmethod.
>
> > No, that's not true. A bound method implictly knows about it self, and
> > it's a callable.
>
> > What I guess is that you did the same mistake I did when I created that
> > example - namely, not keeping a refernce to the bound method around.
> > Ctypes will then garbage-collect the callback, which of course leads to
> > all kinds of troubles.
>
> > Try this:
>
> > a = A()
> > # keep this around
> > bound_m = a.expCallback
> > DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>
> AAAAHHRG, same error again.
>
> Of course, use
>
> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, bound_m)
>
> because the bound method changes with each time you create it.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> Diez

Well, I got around this mess by putting all those static callbacks
into a separate module in a new class. I set them up to call a bound
method of that class which passes the arguments to the appropriate
bound methods of other class instances. I just have to keep a little
dict of the bound method callbacks when I register them with the
class.

I also found a simple trick for sharing globals between modules.
Pretty simple, create an empty module, say shared.py, with only the
pass statement in it. Then dynamically add properties to it such as
shared.app = App(). Import shared into the modules that need access to
app and done!

Thanks for the help on this. Always learning!


From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Sat Feb 27 02:57:07 2010
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:57:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Karrigell 3.0.4 published
Message-ID: <816a06f6-0409-4c43-ac0c-e62ced0ec993@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

A new version of the web framework Karrigell is on line

The main changes are :
- more robust session management in multi-threaded and multi-process
environments
- Unicode management in the HTMLTags module (HTML generation in
Python)
- Unicode management and error reports in Karrigell Templates (simple
templating system)
- more of MySQL : can be used for users database ; improved online
management ; blog application
- use of the WhizzyWig Javascript library for blog applications
- make script caching and HTTP caching optional
- the alias keys can be regular expressions for a more flexible url
resolution
- bug fix for default host configuration and for cookie expiry date

Home page : http://karrigell.sourceforge.net
Download : http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=67940
Google Group : http://groups.google.com/group/karrigell

Cheers,
Pierre


From fabfake at fake.org  Sat Feb 27 03:05:24 2010
From: fabfake at fake.org (Fabiano)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:05:24 +0100
Subject: Updates about Tk
Message-ID: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>


Hi,
I'm going to start my little journey into the Python's lands.
I have already red the old posts about but I suppose this is an evolving
topic.
I have understood Tk is the default Python's GUI toolkit, I have also
read that version 8.5 has native widgets and visual improvements.
My question is:
Are the new Tk comaprable with other toolkits(Qt, GTK,Wx?)?
Does Tk lack other features compared to the Qt,GTK,Wx...?
(Or: is there things you can't simply do with Tk?)

Thanks in advance for replying


From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Sat Feb 27 03:21:55 2010
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Karrigell 3.0.4 published
References: <816a06f6-0409-4c43-ac0c-e62ced0ec993@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ebc942f4-f1e8-411a-b0b0-9441745fbe36@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 27 f?v, 08:57, Pierre Quentel <quentel.pie... at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A new version of the web framework Karrigell is on line
>
> The main changes are :
> - more robust session management in multi-threaded and multi-process
> environments
> - Unicode management in the HTMLTags module (HTML generation in
> Python)
> - Unicode management and error reports in Karrigell Templates (simple
> templating system)
> - more of MySQL : can be used for users database ; improved online
> management ; blog application
> - use of the WhizzyWig Javascript library for blog applications
> - make script caching and HTTP caching optional
> - the alias keys can be regular expressions for a more flexible url
> resolution
> - bug fix for default host configuration and for cookie expiry date
>
> Home page :http://karrigell.sourceforge.net
> Download :http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=67940
> Google Group :http://groups.google.com/group/karrigell
>
> Cheers,
> Pierre

Oops ! wrong group, sorry. It's for c.l.p.announce


From half.italian at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 03:26:08 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:26:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Updates about Tk
References: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <699f7b37-e651-4d32-942c-28cff2e2e05d@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>


> Are the new Tk comaprable with other toolkits(Qt, GTK,Wx?)?
> Does Tk lack other features compared to the Qt,GTK,Wx...?
> (Or: is there things you can't simply do with Tk?)
>
> Thanks in advance for replying

tkinter is a good starting point.  You can get some definite benefits
going to wx or Qt.  I guess it depends on how much experience you have
creating GUIs.

Choose the one you are comfortable with.


From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Sat Feb 27 03:52:13 2010
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:52:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Karrigell 3.0.4 published
References: <816a06f6-0409-4c43-ac0c-e62ced0ec993@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<ebc942f4-f1e8-411a-b0b0-9441745fbe36@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4414c78-757d-4034-a3ac-490ee8fbf314@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi Pierre

> Oops ! wrong group, sorry. It's for c.l.p.announce

Well, I for one was happy to learn of this release here - thanks

    J^n



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 04:00:00 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:00:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <fad5c5ec-c1d9-4eed-a09c-5d47de501baf@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Michael Rudolf <spamfres... at ch3ka.de> wrote:
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend

Guido wrote a nice article[1] on "multimethods" using decorators,
which Ian Bicking followed up on[2] with a non-global approach.

1: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=101605
2: http://blog.ianbicking.org/more-on-multimethods.html


From dino at phidev.org  Sat Feb 27 04:11:58 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:58 +0100
Subject: Exception in pydoc
In-Reply-To: <4B87FBB3.8090107@gmail.com>
References: <4B87FBB3.8090107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1267261918.16436.31.camel@brain>

On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 13:49 -0300, Ricardo Ar?oz wrote:
> Does pydoc only deal with ASCII? 

UTF-8 in docstrings works for me. 

Maybe:
* Its actually not UTF-8
* The console you're using doesn't support UTF-8 well
  (note: I'm on linux, maybe its a problem with windows?)


code >>>
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-

def foo():
    """Some ?tf-8 docstring ? g?f (x)"""
    return False
<<<EOF


>>> help(test)
Help on module test:

NAME
    test - # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-

FILE
    /tmp/test.py

FUNCTIONS
    foo()
        Some ?tf-8 docstring ? g?f (x)



-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From macosx at rocteur.cc  Sat Feb 27 04:36:41 2010
From: macosx at rocteur.cc (@ Rocteur CC)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
Message-ID: <70C8D379-E7C0-4852-94FD-17D9B3B67F2B@rocteur.cc>

Hi,

This morning I am working though Building Skills in Python and was  
having problems with string.strip.

Then I found the input file I was using was in DOS format and I  
thought it be best to convert it to UNIX and so I started to type perl  
-i -pe 's/ and then I though, wait, I'm learning Python, I have to  
think in Python, as I'm a Python newbie I fired up Google and typed:

+python convert dos to unix +one +liner

Found perl, sed, awk but no python on the first page

So I tried

+python dos2unix +one +liner -perl

Same thing..

But then I found http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners 
  and tried this:

cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re; 
[sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in  
sys.stdin]" >file.unix

And it works..

[10:31:11 incc-imac-intel ~/python] cat -vet file.dos
one^M$
two^M$
three^M$
[10:32:10 incc-imac-intel ~/python] cat -vet file.unix
one$
two$
three$

But it is long and just like sed does not do it in place.

Is there a better way in Python or is this kind of thing best done in  
Perl ?

Thanks,

Jerry


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Sat Feb 27 05:14:02 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:14:02 +0000
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmar99$msc$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/27/10 09:36, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
<cut dos2unix oneliners;python vs perl/sed/awk>
Hi a couple of fragmented things popped in my head reading your 
question, non of them is very constructive though in what you actually 
want, but here it goes anyway.

- Oneline through away script with re as a built in syntax, yup that 
sounds like perl to me.

- What is wrong with making an executable script (not being one line) 
and call that, this is even shorter.

- ... wait a minute, you are building something in python (problem with 
string.strip - why don't you use the built-in string strip method 
instead?) which barfs on the input (win/unix line ending), should the 
actual solution not be in there, i.e. parsing the line first to check 
for line-endings? .. But wait another minute, why are you getting \r\n 
in the first place, python by default uses universal new lines?

Hope that helps a bit, maybe you could post the part of the code what 
you are doing for some better suggestions.

-- 
mph


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Feb 27 06:05:01 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:05:01 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmau8e$nn8$02$1@news.t-online.com>

@ Rocteur CC wrote:

> But then I found
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners
>   and tried this:
> 
> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
> 
> And it works..

- Don't build list comprehensions just to throw them away, use a for-loop 
instead.

- You can often use string methods instead of regular expressions. In this 
case line.replace("\r\n", "\n").

> But it is long and just like sed does not do it in place.
> 
> Is there a better way in Python or is this kind of thing best done in
> Perl ?

open(..., "U") ("universal" mode) converts arbitrary line endings to just 
"\n"

$ cat -e file.dos
alpha^M$
beta^M$
gamma^M$

$ python -c'open("file.unix", "wb").writelines(open("file.dos", "U"))'

$ cat -e file.unix
alpha$
beta$
gamma$

But still, if you want very short (and often cryptic) code Perl is hard to 
beat. I'd say that Python doesn't even try.

Peter


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 06:44:30 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 11:44:30 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:

> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
> sys.stdin]" >file.unix

Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal 
string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!

*wink*

Regexes are expensive, even in Perl, but more so in Python. When you 
don't need the 30 pound sledgehammer of regexes, use lightweight string 
methods.

import sys; sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.read().replace('\r\n', '\n'))

ought to do it. It's not particularly short, but Python doesn't value 
extreme brevity -- code golf isn't terribly exciting in Python.

[steve at sylar ~]$ cat -vet file.dos
one^M$
two^M$
three^M$
[steve at sylar ~]$ cat file.dos | python -c "import sys; sys.stdout.write
(sys.stdin.read().replace('\r\n', '\n'))" > file.unix
[steve at sylar ~]$ cat -vet file.unix
one$
two$
three$
[steve at sylar ~]$

Works fine. Unfortunately it still doesn't work in-place, although I 
think that's probably a side-effect of the shell, not Python. To do it in 
place, I would pass the file name:

# Tested and working in the interactive interpreter.
import sys
filename = sys.argv[1]
text = open(filename, 'rb').read().replace('\r\n', '\n')
open(filename, 'wb').write(text)


Turning that into a one-liner isn't terribly useful or interesting, but 
here we go:

python -c "import sys;open(sys.argv[1], 'wb').write(open(sys.argv[1], 
'rb').read().replace('\r\n', '\n'))" file

Unfortunately, this does NOT work: I suspect it is because the file gets 
opened for writing (and hence emptied) before it gets opened for reading. 
Here's another attempt:

python -c "import sys;t=open(sys.argv[1], 'rb').read().replace('\r\n', 
'\n');open(sys.argv[1], 'wb').write(t)" file


[steve at sylar ~]$ cp file.dos file.txt
[steve at sylar ~]$ python -c "import sys;t=open(sys.argv[1], 'rb').read
().replace('\r\n', '\n');open(sys.argv[1], 'wb').write(t)" file.txt
[steve at sylar ~]$ cat -vet file.txt
one$
two$
three$
[steve at sylar ~]$ 


Success!

Of course, none of these one-liners are good practice. The best thing to 
use is a dedicated utility, or write a proper script that has proper 
error testing.


> Is there a better way in Python or is this kind of thing best done in
> Perl ?

If by "this kind of thing" you mean text processing, then no, Python is 
perfectly capable of doing text processing. Regexes aren't as highly 
optimized as in Perl, but they're more than good enough for when you 
actually need a regex.

If you mean "code golf" and one-liners, then, yes, this is best done in 
Perl :)


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 06:45:26 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 11:45:26 GMT
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<a1fb718a-a2d2-40dc-9daf-86bb08ba762d@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<d6ef651d-dd1d-4a5b-8610-c91ef91d831b@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8905d6$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:31:47 -0800, alex23 wrote:

> Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>> "You're" not getting the point.
> 
> If every link has to be accompanied by a summary of all of the
> information at the end of it, what point is there to linking?
> 
> (Programmers are the _only_ people I know of who complain about the
> arduousness of tasks like typing quotes or clicking on links...)

Once you've clicked on a link to Tubgirl or Goatsie Man once, you will 
never, ever, ever click on an untrusted link again.

*wink*

But seriously... I dislike being sent links without any explanation of 
what is in them, because in my experience, 9 times out of 10 if I had 
been told, I wouldn't have bothered to clink on the link.



-- 
Steven


From translatorhossam at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 06:53:12 2010
From: translatorhossam at gmail.com (hussam elagmy)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:53:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open all sites that blocked in your country from here
Message-ID: <ad5b4526-d337-40ff-ac6c-be6a6b52e250@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Open all sites that blocked in your country from here
Browse the internet securely using Your Proxy

 You can unblock popular social networking sites such as myspace,
bebo, facebook and many other sites.

http://essam.zxq.net/


From translatorhossam at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 07:06:42 2010
From: translatorhossam at gmail.com (hussam elagmy)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open all sites that blocked in your country from here
Message-ID: <9433bc33-d585-456a-b878-0f0e110cfff1@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>


Browse the internet securely using Your Proxy

 You can unblock popular social networking sites such as myspace,
bebo, facebook and many other sites.

http://essam.zxq.net/


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Sat Feb 27 08:45:33 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:45:33 +0100
Subject: Variable definition
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b8892a5$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20100227144533.36d4294d@geekmail.INVALID>

On 27 Feb 2010 03:33:57 GMT Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> exec "'myPrefix_turquoise' = 42"
> 
Not quite:

In [1]: exec "'myPrefix_turquoise' = 42"
------------------------------------------------------------
   File "<string>", line 1
SyntaxError: can't assign to literal (<string>, line 1)


I think you meant:

exec "myPrefix_turquoise = 42"


/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From ijsporg at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 09:31:06 2010
From: ijsporg at gmail.com (org ijsp)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:31:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Call For Manuscripts: International Journal of Signal Processing 
	(IJSP)
Message-ID: <123a4533-5c74-4b84-8ee9-28c91827a770@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Call For Manuscripts
The Journal is currently accepting original high-quality research
manuscripts for publication. The Journal welcomes the submission of
manuscripts that meet the scientific criteria of significance and
academic excellence. All research articles submitted for the journal
will be peer-reviewed within three weeks of submission. Following the
peer-reviewed acceptance, the accepted & formatted articles will
normally be published in the next available issue.

All submitted formatted full-text articles should report original,
previously unpublished research results, experimental or theoretical.
Articles submitted to the journal should meet these criteria and must
not be under consideration for publication elsewhere. These articles
should describe new and carefully confirmed findings, and experimental
procedures should be given in sufficient detail for others to verify
the work. The length of a full text article should be the minimum
required to describe and interpret the work clearly.

Papers are solicited from, but not limited to the following topics:

    * Adaptive Filtering & Signal Processing
    * Ad-Hoc and Sensor Networks
    * Analog and Mixed Signal Processing
    * Array Signal Processing
    * Audio and Electroacoustics
    * Audio/Speech Processing and Coding
    * Bioimaging and Signal Processing
    * Biometrics & Authentification
    * Biosignal Processing & Understanding
    * Communication and Broadband Networks
    * Communication Signal processing
    * Computer Vision & Virtual Reality
    * Cryptography and Network Security
    * Design and Implementation of Signal Processing Systems
    * Digital Signal Processing
    * DSP Implementations and Embedded Systems
    * Emerging Technologies
    * Hardware Implementation for Signal Processing
    * Higher Order Spectral Analysis
    * Image and Multidimensional Signal Processing
    * Image Processing & Understanding
    * Image/Video Processing and Coding
    * Industry Technology
    * Internet Signal Processing
    * Machine Learning for Signal Processing
    * Modulation and Channel Coding
    * Multimedia & Human-computer Interaction
    * Multimedia Communications
    * Multimedia Signal Processing
    * Natural Language Processing
    * Next Generation Mobile Communications
    * Nonlinear Signal Processing
    * Optical Communications
    * Parallel and Distributed Processing
    * PDE for Image Processing
    * Radar Signal Processing
    * Rapid Prototyping and Tools for DSP Design
    * RF and Wireless Communications
    * Sensor Array and Multi-channel Processing
    * Signal Processing and Communications Education
    * Signal Processing for Communications
    * Signal Processing for Security
    * Signal Processing Theory and Methods
    * Soft Computing and Machine learning for Signal Processing and
Communications
    * Sonar Signal Processing and Localization
    * SP for Bioinformatics
    * SP for Biomedical & Cognitive Science
    * SP for Internet and Wireless Communications
    * SP for Sensor Networks
    * Spectrum Estimation & Modeling
    * Speech and Audio Coding
    * Speech Processing
    * Speech Synthesis & Recognition
    * Spoken Language Processing
    * Statistic Learning & Pattern Recognition
    * Statistical Signal Processing
    * TF Spectrum Analysis & Wavelet
    * Time-Frequency/Time-Scale Analysis
    * Video compression & Streaming
    * Watermarking and Information Hiding
    * Applications of Signal Processing (Biomedical, Bioinformatics,
Genomic, Seismic, Radar, Sonar, Remote Sensing, Positioning, Embedded
Systems, etc.)
    * Signal Processing and Communications Education
    * Web Engineering
    * Wireless Communications
    * Detection and Estimation
    * Cooperative Communication
    * Adaptive and Array Signal Processing
    * MIMO and Space-Time Signal Processing
    * Compressive Sensing & Applications
    * Cognitive Radio
    * Signal Processing for Communications
    * Network Coding
    * Machine Learning/AI for Signal Processing
    * Network Information Theory
    * Audio, Speech, Image & Video Signal Processing
    * Sequences & Complexity
    * Signal Processing Algorithms & Architectures
    * Source and Channel Coding: Theory and Practice
    * Underwater Communications and Signal Processing
    * Ad-hoc and Sensor Networks
    * Optical Communications and Networks
    * Next Generation Networking, QoS & Security
    * VLSI for Communication & Signal Processing
    * Multihop and Mesh Networks
    * RF Systems for Communications
    * Vehicular Networks
    * Systems, Standards and Implementations
    * Biomedical Signal Processing
    * Coding/Signal Processing in Biology
    * Spoken Language Processing
    * Biological Network & Data Analysis/Modelling


CALL FOR PAPERS
International Journal of Signal Processing (IJSP)
Website: https://sites.google.com/site/ijsporg/
Manuscript submission to: ijsporg at gmail.com
All submitted papers will be judged based on their quality by the
technical committee and reviewers. Papers that describe research and
experimentation are encouraged. All paper submissions will be handled
electronically and detailed instructions on submission procedure are
available on IJSP web pages. Researchers and authors are invited to
participate in the peer-review process of IJSP papers if your research
interest matches with the themes of Call for Papers. For other
information, please contact IJSP Managing Editor.


From macosx at rocteur.cc  Sat Feb 27 10:01:53 2010
From: macosx at rocteur.cc (@ Rocteur CC)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:01:53 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>


On 27 Feb 2010, at 12:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>
>> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
>
> Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal
> string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!

Thanks for the replies I'm looking at them now, however, for those who  
misunderstood, the above cat file.dos pipe pythong does not come from  
Perl but comes from:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners

> Apply regular expression to lines from stdin
> [another command] | python -c "import sys,re; 
> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('PATTERN').sub('SUBSTITUTION', line))  
> for line in sys.stdin]"


Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do  
this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file,  
I simply found the above example on wiki.python.org whilst searching  
Google for a quick conversion solution.

Thanks again for the replies I've learned a few things and I  
appreciate your help.

Jerry


From funthyme at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 10:29:46 2010
From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:29:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <d4408f49-37f8-4c71-854e-e33ffdf1dfd3@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 8:23?pm, Andreas Waldenburger <use... at geekmail.INVALID>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
>
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
> ? ? while not wise(up):
> ? ? ? ? yield scorn
>
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?

A good way to control Python contractors is (given that firstly there
are functional specifications to comply with, and tests to pass) is to
impose the following condition:

that all code delivered must reach a score of (say) 9.5 or more when
checked by pylint

and pylint could be the way to demonstrate the problems to the
'authorities'.

If payment depends on such a measure, things will change quite
quickly.
John
--

> /W
>
> --
> INVALID? DE!



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 10:54:50 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:54:50 -0500
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
Message-ID: <A6A43E48-FB88-438E-95A3-24684936579B@gmail.com>


On Feb 27, 2010, at 10:01 AM, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file

Perl may be better for you for throw-away code.   Use Python for the code you want to keep (and read and understand later).

S



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sat Feb 27 11:25:48 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:25:48 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <70C8D379-E7C0-4852-94FD-17D9B3B67F2B@rocteur.cc>
References: <70C8D379-E7C0-4852-94FD-17D9B3B67F2B@rocteur.cc>
Message-ID: <hmbh2c$gc$1@dough.gmane.org>

@ Rocteur CC, 27.02.2010 10:36:
> cat file.dos | python -c "import
>   sys,re;[sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>   sys.stdin]" >file.unix

See:

http://partmaps.org/era/unix/award.html

Stefan



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 11:36:29 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:36:29 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <dcc3ec881002262149v4cf1a57l6abc4dac9a4b28b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261957y56375e01n59b0ca28f75324ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002262149v4cf1a57l6abc4dac9a4b28b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002270836.29268.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Friday 26 February 2010 21:49:00 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> Thanks for your help Rami.. I got it working.. I did some digging around
> and found out that I needed to install opencv as admin.. Now Im trying to
> run one of the samples and up against my next chalange.
> 
> Argg.. There are so many pit falls!
> 
> Thanks again,
> 

Glad to be able to help :-)

Especially when you've managed to solve something, could you please remember 
to CC the list on your reply, so if people run across the problem in future 
they can benefit from your experience?

Thanks,
Rami

> 
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Isaiah Coberly <routb3d at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thats the furthest I have seen it get.. Ill have to remember this..
> > 
> > here is what Python returned..
> > 
> > >>> from opencv import cv
> > 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in <module>
> >   
> >     from opencv import cv
> >   
> >   File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\__init__.py", line 74, in
> > 
> > <module>
> > 
> >     from cv import *
> >   
> >   File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\cv.py", line 25, in <module>
> >   
> >     _cv = swig_import_helper()
> >   
> >   File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\cv.py", line 21, in
> > 
> > swig_import_helper
> > 
> >     _mod = imp.load_module('_cv', fp, pathname, description)
> > 
> > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Rami Chowdhury 
<rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> On Feb 26, 2010, at 19:47 , Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> >> 
> >> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages
> >> 
> >> no .py files here..
> >> 
> >> cv.pyd
> >> libcv.dll.a
> >> 
> >> 
> >> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages\opencv
> >> 
> >> _init_.py
> >> matlan_syntax.py
> >> adaptors.py
> >> cv.py
> >> 
> >> 
> >> It looks to me like 'opencv' is structured as a package, from which you
> >> should be able to import and work with Python libraries. Have you tried
> >> putting the above site-packages directory in sys.path:
> >> 
> >> import sys; sys.path.append('C:
> >> \\OpenCV2.0\\Python2.6\\Lib\\site-packages')
> >> 
> >> and then doing:
> >> 
> >> from opencv import cv
> >> 
> >> ?
> >> 
> >> Did I still need to compile this even though it was a win 32 installer?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I don't think so, no -- AFAIK the .pyd files are compiled CPython
> >> extension modules, so it looks like they're all compiled for you.
> >> 
> >> -------------
> >> Rami Chowdhury
> >> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> >> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> >> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com
> >> 
> >> > wrote:
> >>> On Friday 26 February 2010 17:42:04 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> >>> > Thanks for the reply.
> >>> > 
> >>> > I tried putting the files from
> >>> > 
> >>> >  C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib
> >>> > 
> >>> > too
> >>> > 
> >>> > C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages
> >>> > 
> >>> > and Python still wont import..
> >>> > 
> >>> > I adjusted the environment variables to try and import
> >>> > maya.standalone
> >>> 
> >>> but
> >>> 
> >>> > no dice on that either.
> >>> 
> >>> Sorry, you've still not told me where you expect it to be. Could you
> >>> let us
> >>> know what .py files you can see in C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib ?
> >>> 
> >>> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> >>> 
> >>> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>> > > On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
> >>> > > > I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7
> >>> 
> >>> pro.
> >>> 
> >>> > > > I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting
> >>> > > > the files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still
> >>> > > > returns this.. Any ideas?
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's
> >>> > > certainly
> >>> 
> >>> not
> >>> 
> >>> > > in
> >>> > > the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python
> >>> > > 2.6.4...
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > > >>> import sys
> >>> > > > >>> sys.path
> >>> > > > 
> >>> > > > ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib',
> >>> > > > 'C:\\ProgramFiles\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
> >>> 
> >>> > > > \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:
> >>> \\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
> >>> 
> >>> > > > 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:
> >>> \\Python26\\lib\\plat-
> >>> 
> >>> > > > win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:
> >>> \\Python26\\lib\
> >>> 
> >>> > > > \site-packages']
> >>> > > > 
> >>> > > > >>> import cv
> >>> > > > 
> >>> > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>> > > >   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
> >>> > > >   
> >>> > > >     import cv
> >>> > > > 
> >>> > > > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be
> >>> 
> >>> found.
> >>> 
> >>> > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > ----
> >>> > > Rami Chowdhury
> >>> > > "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." --
> >>> > > Howdle's Saying 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) /
> >>> > > 01819-245544 (BD)
> >>> 
> >>> ----
> >>> Rami Chowdhury
> >>> "Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
> >>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


----
Rami Chowdhury
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GO d-(+++) s-:++ a-- C++> ULX+> P++ L++
E+ W+++ w-- PS+ PE t+ b+++ e++ !r z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Feb 27 11:59:28 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:59:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmbj1f$422$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2010-02-27, @ Rocteur CC <macosx at rocteur.cc> wrote:

> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do  
> this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file,

Are you sure about that?

Or does it just hide the intermediate file from you the way
that sed -i does?

-- 
Grant



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Feb 27 12:03:41 2010
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:03:41 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <m24ol6gv39.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<m24ol6gv39.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hmbj5f$6v6$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/24/2010 1:52 PM Arnaud Delobelle said...
> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
>> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?
>
> Are they really good?  Sounds good, spinach lasagne, I don't know a
> recipe for them.  Maybe you could post it as Python code, with a lot of
> nested if-then-else clauses, of course :)
>

+1 for Aahz posting his Spinach Lasagne recipe.

Emile





From kw at codebykevin.com  Sat Feb 27 12:11:14 2010
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:11:14 -0500
Subject: Updates about Tk
In-Reply-To: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <6adc$4b895233$4275d90a$6509@FUSE.NET>

On 2/27/10 3:05 AM, Fabiano wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm going to start my little journey into the Python's lands.
> I have already red the old posts about but I suppose this is an evolving
> topic.
> I have understood Tk is the default Python's GUI toolkit, I have also
> read that version 8.5 has native widgets and visual improvements.
> My question is:
> Are the new Tk comaprable with other toolkits(Qt, GTK,Wx?)?
> Does Tk lack other features compared to the Qt,GTK,Wx...?
> (Or: is there things you can't simply do with Tk?)
>
> Thanks in advance for replying

In terms of UI, Tkinter as of 8.5 is pretty comparable to the other 
toolkits. The themed ttk widgets use native widgets for things like 
tree/tableviews, buttons, scrollbars, entry fields, labels, etc. If 
there's something that the core widgets don't support, there are both 
higher-level Python widget packages based on Tkinter (PMW, for instance) 
and Tkinter wrappers for Tk widget packages such as tablelist, Bwidgets, 
etc.

More information is here: http://tkinter.unpythonic.net/wiki/

Tk still lacks in a few areas:

1. Native drag-and-drop--you have to install an extension package, 
TkDND, which also has a Python wrapper here: 
http://klappnase.bubble.org/index.html

2. Printing. The other toolkits support this out of the box. With Tk, 
you're pretty limited to lpr and/or generating postscript (on *Nix and 
Mac) and whatever native printing functionality is supported on Windows.

3. HTML rendering. The other toolkits support this natively. There are 
several alternatives on Tk, but none are ideal: see 
http://www.codebykevin.com/blosxom.cgi/2009/11/19#which-html.

I find that Tk is so simple and powerful for most things that its 
limitations are acceptable, or can be worked around. Also, licensing can 
be problematic in some cases. But, as others have discussed, give the 
different toolkits a try and make your own choice.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com


From routb3d at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 12:15:09 2010
From: routb3d at gmail.com (Isaiah Coberly)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:15:09 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <201002270836.29268.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261957y56375e01n59b0ca28f75324ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002262149v4cf1a57l6abc4dac9a4b28b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002270836.29268.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5413BF6A-44D1-48D7-B2EE-0C6364B45B27@gmail.com>

Will do.. Thanks again..

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 27, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> On Friday 26 February 2010 21:49:00 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
>> Thanks for your help Rami.. I got it working.. I did some digging  
>> around
>> and found out that I needed to install opencv as admin.. Now Im  
>> trying to
>> run one of the samples and up against my next chalange.
>>
>> Argg.. There are so many pit falls!
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>
> Glad to be able to help :-)
>
> Especially when you've managed to solve something, could you please  
> remember
> to CC the list on your reply, so if people run across the problem in  
> future
> they can benefit from your experience?
>
> Thanks,
> Rami
>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Isaiah Coberly <routb3d at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>> Thats the furthest I have seen it get.. Ill have to remember this..
>>>
>>> here is what Python returned..
>>>
>>>>>> from opencv import cv
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in <module>
>>>
>>>    from opencv import cv
>>>
>>>  File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\__init__.py", line 74,  
>>> in
>>>
>>> <module>
>>>
>>>    from cv import *
>>>
>>>  File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\cv.py", line 25, in  
>>> <module>
>>>
>>>    _cv = swig_import_helper()
>>>
>>>  File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\cv.py", line 21, in
>>>
>>> swig_import_helper
>>>
>>>    _mod = imp.load_module('_cv', fp, pathname, description)
>>>
>>> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be  
>>> found.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> On Feb 26, 2010, at 19:47 , Isaiah Coberly wrote:
>>>>
>>>> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages
>>>>
>>>> no .py files here..
>>>>
>>>> cv.pyd
>>>> libcv.dll.a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages\opencv
>>>>
>>>> _init_.py
>>>> matlan_syntax.py
>>>> adaptors.py
>>>> cv.py
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It looks to me like 'opencv' is structured as a package, from  
>>>> which you
>>>> should be able to import and work with Python libraries. Have you  
>>>> tried
>>>> putting the above site-packages directory in sys.path:
>>>>
>>>> import sys; sys.path.append('C:
>>>> \\OpenCV2.0\\Python2.6\\Lib\\site-packages')
>>>>
>>>> and then doing:
>>>>
>>>> from opencv import cv
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Did I still need to compile this even though it was a win 32  
>>>> installer?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think so, no -- AFAIK the .pyd files are compiled CPython
>>>> extension modules, so it looks like they're all compiled for you.
>>>>
>>>> -------------
>>>> Rami Chowdhury
>>>> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's  
>>>> Razor
>>>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Rami Chowdhury
>>>> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday 26 February 2010 17:42:04 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried putting the files from
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib
>>>>>>
>>>>>> too
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and Python still wont import..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I adjusted the environment variables to try and import
>>>>>> maya.standalone
>>>>>
>>>>> but
>>>>>
>>>>>> no dice on that either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, you've still not told me where you expect it to be. Could  
>>>>> you
>>>>> let us
>>>>> know what .py files you can see in C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib ?
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rami Chowdhury
>>>>>
>>>>> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
>>>>>>>> I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7
>>>>>
>>>>> pro.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting
>>>>>>>> the files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still
>>>>>>>> returns this.. Any ideas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's
>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>
>>>>> not
>>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python
>>>>>>> 2.6.4...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>>>>>>> sys.path
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib',
>>>>>>>> 'C:\\ProgramFiles\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:
>>>>> \\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:
>>>>> \\Python26\\lib\\plat-
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:
>>>>> \\Python26\\lib\
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> \site-packages']
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> import cv
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>  File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    import cv
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be
>>>>>
>>>>> found.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> Rami Chowdhury
>>>>>>> "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." --
>>>>>>> Howdle's Saying 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) /
>>>>>>> 01819-245544 (BD)
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Rami Chowdhury
>>>>> "Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
>>>>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)
>
>
> ----
> Rami Chowdhury
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GO d-(+++) s-:++ a-- C++> ULX+> P++ L++
> E+ W+++ w-- PS+ PE t+ b+++ e++ !r z?
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 27 12:18:57 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:18:57 -0600
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87r5o6zjem.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions according 
> to the arguments. So you might have:
>
> mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX
> mv @CX,DX ; move contents of @CX into DX
>
> Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something like 
> that.

It doesn't matter. Both your comments are wrong from my point of
view. Someone who doesn't know in which direction the move happens is
certainly not qualified to modify the code. And as for learning, he/she
should start with a book, not with a piece of code that requires a
comment on every line unless one can guess its meaning.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 27 12:27:04 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:27:04 -0600
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>

"ssteinerX at gmail.com" <ssteinerx at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 27, 2010, at 10:01 AM, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to
>> do this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate
>> file
>
> Perl may be better for you for throw-away code.  Use Python for the
> code you want to keep (and read and understand later).

Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
language is just a tool to do a job?

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 12:29:44 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:29:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Updates about Tk
References: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it> 
	<6adc$4b895233$4275d90a$6509@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <d6f9d8e2-3379-4add-bffd-0f058ccd6fd8@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 11:11?am, Kevin Walzer <k... at codebykevin.com> wrote:

(...snip...)

> Kevin Walzer
> Code by Kevinhttp://www.codebykevin.com

Great post Kevin! The only thing i would like to add are my two
favorite references for learning Tkinter. They are not geared around
the new ttk stuff, but still 95% relevant to any Tkinter-ing

http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 27 12:37:22 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:37:22 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002270937n79ed285bh1715671e3c5a2958@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/26/10, Victor Stinner <victor.stinner at haypocalc.com> wrote:
> Le vendredi 26 f?vrier 2010 15:37:43, Daniel Fetchinson a ?crit :
>> >> pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project
>>
>> Out of curiosity, the python sandbox behind google app engine is open
>>  source? If so, how is it different from your project, if not, anyone
>> knows
>>  if it will be in the future?
>
> I don't know this project. Do you have the URL of the project home page? Is
> it
> the "safelite.py" project?

It's google's hosting solution called app engine, for python web
applications: http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/gettingstarted/

I guess they also have some kind of a sandbox if they let people run
python on their machines, I'm not sure if it's open source though.

Cheers,
Daniel




-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 27 12:40:01 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:40:01 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmbldl$ldj$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* @ Rocteur CC:
> 
> On 27 Feb 2010, at 12:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>>
>>> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
>>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>>> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
>>
>> Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal
>> string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!
> 
> Thanks for the replies I'm looking at them now, however, for those who 
> misunderstood, the above cat file.dos pipe pythong does not come from 
> Perl but comes from:
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners

Steven is right with the "Holy Cow" and multiple exclamation marks.

For those unfamiliar with that, just google "multiple exclamation marks", I 
think that should work... ;-)

Not only is a regular expression overkill & inefficient, but the snippet also 
needlessly constructs an array with size the number of lines.

Consider instead e.g.

<hack>
import sys; sum(int(bool(sys.stdout.write(line.replace('\r\n','\n')))) for line 
in sys.stdin)
</hack>

But better, consider that it's less work to save the code in a file than copying 
and pasting it in a command interpreter, and then it doesn't need to be 1 line.



>> Apply regular expression to lines from stdin
>> [another command] | python -c "import 
>> sys,re;[sys.stdout.write(re.compile('PATTERN').sub('SUBSTITUTION', 
>> line)) for line in sys.stdin]"
> 
> 
> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do 
> this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file, I 
> simply found the above example on wiki.python.org whilst searching 
> Google for a quick conversion solution.
> 
> Thanks again for the replies I've learned a few things and I appreciate 
> your help.

Cheers,

- Alf


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 12:42:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 17:42:31 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b895987$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:01:53 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:

> On 27 Feb 2010, at 12:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>>
>>> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
>>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>>> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
>>
>> Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal
>> string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!
> 
> Thanks for the replies I'm looking at them now, however, for those who
> misunderstood, the above cat file.dos pipe pythong does not come from
> Perl but comes from:
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners

Whether it comes from Larry Wall himself, or a Python wiki, using regexes 
for a simple string replacement is like using an 80 lb sledgehammer to 
crack a peanut.


>> Apply regular expression to lines from stdin [another command] | python
>> -c "import sys,re;
>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('PATTERN').sub('SUBSTITUTION', line)) for
>> line in sys.stdin]"

And if PATTERN is an actual regex, rather than just a simple substring, 
that would be worthwhile. But if PATTERN is a literal string, then string 
methods are much faster and use much less memory.

> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do
> this 

I'm sure it does. If I were interested in code-golf, I'd be impressed.


> and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file,

The solution I gave you doesn't use an intermediate file either.

*slaps head and is enlightened*
Oh, I'm an idiot! 

Since you're reading text files, there's no need to call
replace('\r\n','\n'). Since there shouldn't be any bare \r characters in 
a DOS-style text file, just use replace('\r', ''). 

Of course, that's an unsafe assumption in the real world. But for a quick 
and dirty one-liner (and all one-liners are quick and dirty), it should 
be good enough.



-- 
Steven


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 13:01:22 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:01:22 -0500
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <A5ABC5E5-D8BC-424D-BC36-9204E33BC734@gmail.com>


On Feb 27, 2010, at 12:27 PM, John Bokma wrote:

> "ssteinerX at gmail.com" <ssteinerx at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Feb 27, 2010, at 10:01 AM, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>>> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to
>>> do this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate
>>> file
>> 
>> Perl may be better for you for throw-away code.  Use Python for the
>> code you want to keep (and read and understand later).
> 
> Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
> noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
> language is just a tool to do a job?

I'm not sure how "use it for what it's good for" has anything to do with toes. 

I've written lots of both Python and Perl and sometimes, for one-off's, Perl is quicker; if you know it.  

I sure don't want to maintain Perl applications though; even ones I've written.

When all you have is a nail file, everything looks like a toe; that doesn't mean you want to have to maintain it.  Or something.

S



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Feb 27 13:02:34 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:02:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmbmnq$a3b$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2010-02-27, @ Rocteur CC <macosx at rocteur.cc> wrote:
>
> On 27 Feb 2010, at 12:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>>
>>> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
>>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>>> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
>>
>> Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal
>> string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!
>
> Thanks for the replies I'm looking at them now, however, for those who  
> misunderstood, the above cat file.dos pipe pythong does not come from  
> Perl but comes from:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners
>
>> Apply regular expression to lines from stdin
>> [another command] | python -c "import sys,re; 
>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('PATTERN').sub('SUBSTITUTION', line))  
>> for line in sys.stdin]"
>
> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of
> characters to do this and certainly does not require the
> creation an intermediate file,

In _theory_ you can do a simple string-replace in situ as long
as the replacement string is shorter than the original string.
But I have a hard time believing that Perl actually does it
that. Since I don't speak line-noise, will you please post the
Perl script that you claim does the conversion without creating
an intermediate file?

The only way I can think of to do a general in-situ file
modification is to buffer the entire file's worth of output in
memory and then overwrite the file after all of the processing
has finished.  Python can do that too, but it's not generally a
very good approach.

-- 
Grant



From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Sat Feb 27 13:10:40 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:10:40 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<d4408f49-37f8-4c71-854e-e33ffdf1dfd3@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100227191040.6c77f2d8@geekmail.INVALID>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:29:46 -0800 (PST) John Pinner
<funthyme at gmail.com> wrote:

> A good way to control Python contractors is (given that firstly there
> are functional specifications to comply with, and tests to pass) is to
> impose the following condition:
> 
> that all code delivered must reach a score of (say) 9.5 or more when
> checked by pylint
> 
Now that *is* a good idea. I hadn't thought about that.

But as I said: a) I am (we are) not in a position to impose this (We
don't work with the code, we just run the software). And
b) I wasn't quite serious with this anyway.

But still, I'll keep that in mind.
/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 27 13:15:39 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:15:39 -0600
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.331.1267293687.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <873a0mpmt0.fsf@castleamber.com>

"ssteinerX at gmail.com" <ssteinerx at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm not sure how "use it for what it's good for" has anything to do
> with toes.

I've the feeling that some people who use Python are easily offended by
everthing Perl related. Which is silly; zealotism in general is, for
that matter.

> I've written lots of both Python and Perl and sometimes, for
> one-off's, Perl is quicker; if you know it.
>
> I sure don't want to maintain Perl applications though; even ones I've
> written.

Ouch, I am afraid that that tells a lot about your Perl programming
skills.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 13:29:52 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerx at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:29:52 -0500
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <873a0mpmt0.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.331.1267293687.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<873a0mpmt0.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <2B2A2898-E576-4BDD-B475-C0234D14D155@gmail.com>

On Feb 27, 2010, at 1:15 PM, John Bokma wrote:

>> I sure don't want to maintain Perl applications though; even ones I've
>> written.
> 
> Ouch, I am afraid that that tells a lot about your Perl programming
> skills.

Nah, it tells you about my preferences.  

I can, and have, written maintainable things in many languages, including Perl.

However, I *choose* Python.

S



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb 27 14:28:26 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:28:26 -0500
Subject: Karrigell 3.0.4 published
In-Reply-To: <ebc942f4-f1e8-411a-b0b0-9441745fbe36@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <816a06f6-0409-4c43-ac0c-e62ced0ec993@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<ebc942f4-f1e8-411a-b0b0-9441745fbe36@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmbroo$299$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/27/2010 3:21 AM, Pierre Quentel wrote:

>
> Oops ! wrong group, sorry. It's for c.l.p.announce

Announcements also come to c.l.p and python-list. C.l.p.a should be a 
low-traffic subset, perhaps with followups set to c.l.p for discussion.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 27 14:29:17 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 11:29:17 -0800
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <87mxyuzj13.fsf at castleamber.com>,
John Bokma  <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
>noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
>language is just a tool to do a job?

When do people learn that language makes a difference?  I used to be a
Perl programmer; these days, you'd have to triple my not-small salary to
get me to even think about programming in Perl.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 27 15:46:38 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 12:46:38 -0800
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
	<pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hmc0be$o4p$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>,
Steven D'Aprano  <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
>[steve at sylar ~]$ cat ws-example.rb

Ahhh, you're a Heroes fan.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From sillyhat at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 27 15:50:38 2010
From: sillyhat at yahoo.com (Hal Styli)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
Message-ID: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

Can someone please help.
I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
in python...

I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:

from something like this

< ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
< .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
< .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
< .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
< ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >

to this

dick,eggs,12
tom,milk,2
harry,bread,1
tom,eggs,6
dick,eggs,6

I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
sed.

Thanks for any constructive help given.

Hal


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 27 15:50:41 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 12:50:41 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com> <m24ol6gv39.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.328.1267290305.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmc0j1$ag9$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.328.1267290305.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Emile van Sebille  <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>On 2/24/2010 1:52 PM Arnaud Delobelle said...
>> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>>
>>> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
>>> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?
>>
>> Are they really good?  Sounds good, spinach lasagne, I don't know a
>> recipe for them.  Maybe you could post it as Python code, with a lot of
>> nested if-then-else clauses, of course :)
>
>+1 for Aahz posting his Spinach Lasagne recipe.

Sorry, I lied.  ;-)  I don't actually have a spinach lasagne recipe.
I've got lots of others on my personal website at http://rule6.info/
(including one for Catalan Spinach).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 27 15:56:22 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:56:22 -0600
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87aauu5rex.fsf@castleamber.com>

Hal Styli <sillyhat at yahoo.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Can someone please help.
> I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> in python...
>
> I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
>
> from something like this
>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
>
> to this
>
> dick,eggs,12
> tom,milk,2
> harry,bread,1
> tom,eggs,6
> dick,eggs,6
>
> I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> sed.

It's not clear how your XML actually looks, but (especially) if those
are all attributes of one element I probably would just use xml.sax

I strongly suggest to not use regex to parse XML.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From dontsendleospam at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 18:57:15 2010
From: dontsendleospam at gmail.com (dontspamleo)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:57:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

I think a big part of the problem is that the scoping rules in Python
are inconsistent because classes are a different kind of object. An
example helps:

This works:

x = 1
def f(y): return y + x

This works:

def f():
  x = 1
  def g(y): return x + y
  return g(2)


But this doesn't work...
class C:
  x = 1
  def f(self,y): return x + y

...although what was probably meant was this, which does work...
class C:
  x = 1
  def f(self,y): return self.x + y

...and really means this...
class C:
  x = 1
  def f(self,y): return T.x + y

...which create other quirkiness when x is mutable as illustrated
nicely here:

http://bioscreencastwiki.com/Python_Variable_scope_gymnastics

One reasonable answer to this quirkiness is RTFM. Classes are well
documented as is everything else in python. Mostly late-binding
semantics are also well documented.

I argue that it is more consistent to have the scope for classes be
consistent with the scope of everything else, which makes the early/
late binding point mute.

I know this is a major change, that it would break existing code, etc.
It would have been better to talk about these things before py3k.
Still:

1. Has this been discussed before?

1. What would this suggestion break?

2. What are the advantages of making the scope of class variables
different? Maybe is it just a historical trait?

Cheers,
Leo.



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 19:12:10 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:12:10 -0500
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
In-Reply-To: <b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <A659D5F8-9AF4-466A-B516-7B722EE8F56B@gmail.com>


On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:57 PM, dontspamleo wrote:

> 
> 
> http://bioscreencastwiki.com/Python_Variable_scope_gymnastics

Broken link:

Site settings could not be loaded

We were unable to locate the API to request site settings. Please see below for debugging information.

HTTP Response Status Code: 0




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 27 19:47:30 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 16:47:30 -0800
Subject: python dowload
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <hmcef2$36t$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d at insightbb.com>,
monkeys paw  <monkey at joemoney.net> wrote:
>On 2/23/2010 3:17 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> 
>> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?
>
>'wb' does the trick. Thanks all!
>
>import urllib2
>a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
>i = 0
>for line in 
>urllib2.urlopen('http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'):
>     i = i + 1
>     a.write(line)

Using a for loop here is still a BAD IDEA -- line could easily end up
megabytes in size (though that is statistically unlikely).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From tarekamr at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 20:41:09 2010
From: tarekamr at gmail.com (tarekamr at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:41:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
Message-ID: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4
the following line (line 332 in http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/__init__.py)
showed a syntax error

items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']

So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant
syntax.

Thanks a lot,
Tarek


From rjngrj2010 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 20:48:15 2010
From: rjngrj2010 at gmail.com (gujax)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:48:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
Message-ID: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
the problem. I tried all versions of python but having installation
problems for all. Installation does not proceed and I get a message
saying "dll required for installation could not be run". I do not even
know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
error window saying - upgrade windows.
Is there no solution at all to installing python on WinME. I have
checked registry several times online and have sought professional
help but so far no success.
Thanks, I will appreciate any help
gujax


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sat Feb 27 20:49:51 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:49:51 -0500
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
In-Reply-To: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002271749x52886307o7a448192181102ca@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 8:41 PM, tarekamr at gmail.com <tarekamr at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
> PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4
> the following line (line 332 in
> http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/__init__.py)
> showed a syntax error
>
> items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
> sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']
>
> So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant
> syntax.
>
>
That's a list comprehension. Really useful tool. That line is equivalent to

items = []

for k,v in sorted(self.items()) :
    if k != 'oauth_signature' :
        if type(v) != ListType:
            items.append((k,v))
        else :
            items.append(sorted(v))
-------------- next part --------------
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From zaphod at beeblebrox.net  Sat Feb 27 20:52:15 2010
From: zaphod at beeblebrox.net (Zaphod)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:52:15 GMT
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j%jin.52334$0N3.51233@newsfe09.iad>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:38 -0800, Hal Styli wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Can someone please help.
> I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite in
> python...
> 
> I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
> 
> from something like this
> 
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... > < ....
> cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...> < .... cust="harry"
> .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...> < .... cust="tom" ....
> product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...> < ..... cust="dick" ....
> product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
> 
> to this
> 
> dick,eggs,12
> tom,milk,2
> harry,bread,1
> tom,eggs,6
> dick,eggs,6
> 
> I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick ways
> of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to parse the
> original file or python's regex to achive what I did using sed.
> 
> Thanks for any constructive help given.
> 
> Hal

Start here:

http://pyxml.sourceforge.net/topics/


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 27 20:58:34 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:58:34 -0800
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
In-Reply-To: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002271758s17ec88d4oc122a31634dafb1e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 5:41 PM, tarekamr at gmail.com <tarekamr at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
> PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4
> the following line (line 332 in http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/__init__.py)
> showed a syntax error
>
> items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
> sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']
>
> So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant
> syntax.

This part is your problem:
(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v))

Conditional expressions like that were added in v2.5:
http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-308-conditional-expressions

Here's an untested substitute:

def sort_or_tuple(k, v):
    if type(v) != ListType:
        return k, v
    else:
        return sorted(v)

items = [sort_or_tuple(k,v) for k,v in sorted(self.items()) if k !=
'oauth_signature']

Of course, the more obvious solution is just to upgrade your Python;
it's well worth it!

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 21:02:58 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 02:02:58 GMT
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
References: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b89ced1$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:41:09 -0800, tarekamr at gmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
> PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4 the
> following line (line 332 in
> http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/
__init__.py)
> showed a syntax error
> 
> items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
> sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']
> 
> So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant syntax.

You would be better off installing Python2.5 on the PC rather than trying 
to backport the library to 2.4. There could be thousands of changes 
needed to backport the library.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 21:03:12 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 02:03:12 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <4b89cee0$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:27:04 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> When do people learn that a
> language is just a tool to do a job?

When do people learn that there are different sorts of tools? A 
professional wouldn't use a screwdriver when they need a hammer.

Perl has strengths: it can be *extremely* concise, regexes are optimized 
much more than in Python, and you can do some things as a one-liner short 
enough to use from the command line easily. Those are values, as seen by 
the millions of people who swear by Perl, but they are not Python's 
values.

If you want something which can make fine cuts in metal, you would use a 
hacksaw, not a keyhole saw or a crosscut saw. If you want to cut through 
an three foot tree truck, you would use a ripsaw or a chainsaw, and not a 
hacksaw. If you want concise one-liners, you would use Perl, not Python, 
and if you want readable, self-documenting code, you're more likely to 
get it from Python than from Perl.

If every tool is the same, why aren't we all using VB? Or C, or 
Javascript, or SmallTalk, or Forth, or ... ? In the real world, all these 
languages have distinguishing characteristics and different strengths and 
weaknesses, which is why there are still people using PL/I and Cobol as 
well as people using Haskell and Lisp and Boo and PHP and D and ...

Languages are not just nebulous interchangeable "tools", they're tools 
for a particular job with particular strengths and weaknesses, and 
depending on what strengths you value and what weaknesses you dislike, 
some tools simply are better than other tools for certain tasks.



-- 
Steven


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Feb 27 21:06:44 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:06:44 +1300
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <a7679234-2e49-4f0d-a3bd-87f8b1f98b43@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <7uqamjFd2vU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<a7679234-2e49-4f0d-a3bd-87f8b1f98b43@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uu0q2Fb8hU1@mid.individual.net>

darnzen wrote:

> Well, I got around this mess by putting all those static callbacks
> into a separate module in a new class. I set them up to call a bound
> method of that class which passes the arguments to the appropriate
> bound methods of other class instances. I just have to keep a little
> dict of the bound method callbacks when I register them with the
> class.

You're making it much more complicated than it needs to
be. Diez is right, a bound method should work provided you
keep a reference to it somewhere for as long as it's needed.

-- 
Greg


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 27 21:12:12 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:12:12 +0000
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
In-Reply-To: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B89D0FC.7080205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

tarekamr at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
> PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4
> the following line (line 332 in http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/__init__.py)
> showed a syntax error
> 
> items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
> sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']
> 
> So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant
> syntax.
> 
I think the clearest is:

items = []
for k, v in sorted(self.items()):
     if k != 'oauth_signature':
         if type(v) == ListType:
             v = sorted(v)
         items.append((k, v))



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Feb 27 21:19:03 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:19:03 -0600
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <hmcef2$36t$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<hmcef2$36t$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B89D297.8010901@tim.thechases.com>

Aahz wrote:
> monkeys paw  <monkey at joemoney.net> wrote:
>> On 2/23/2010 3:17 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>>> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?
>> 'wb' does the trick. Thanks all!
>>
>> import urllib2
>> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
>> i = 0
>> for line in 
>> urllib2.urlopen('http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'):
>>     i = i + 1
>>     a.write(line)
> 
> Using a for loop here is still a BAD IDEA -- line could easily end up
> megabytes in size (though that is statistically unlikely).

Just so the OP has it, dealing with binary files without reading 
the entire content into memory would look something like

   from urllib2 import urlopen
   CHUNK_SIZE = 1024*4  # 4k, why not?
   OUT_NAME = 'out.pdf'
   a = open(OUT_NAME, 'wb')
   u = urlopen(URL)
   bytes_read = 0
   while True:
     data = u.read(CHUNK_SIZE)
     if not data: break
     a.write(data)
     bytes_read += len(data)
   print "Wrote %i bytes to %s" % (
     bytes_read, OUT_NAME)

-tkc


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Feb 27 21:23:03 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:23:03 +1300
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <7uu1ooFiipU1@mid.individual.net>

Mel wrote:

> You could think of it as a not bad use of the design principle "Clear The 
> Simple Stuff Out Of The Way First".  Destinations are commonly a lot simpler 
> than sources

That's not usually true in assembly languages, though,
where the source and destination are both very restricted
and often about the same complexity.

That's not to say that right-to-left is the wrong way
to do it in an assembly language, but there are less
misleading words than "move" that could be used.

Z80 assembly language uses "load", which makes things
considerably clearer:

   LD A, B  ; load A with B

-- 
Greg


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:26:23 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:26:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <921d8fca-2cdc-4444-87c0-96f4072fbfdb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 7:48?pm, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> years -

Wow 2 years!, you must have the patience of a saint!

> Installation does not proceed and I get a message
> saying "dll required for installation could not be run".

Did it say "what" dll did not run, did have a name?

> I do not even
> know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
> I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
> error window saying - upgrade windows.

Hmm, have you tried "upgrading windows, just a wild guess!



From rpdooling at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:36:45 2010
From: rpdooling at gmail.com (Rick Dooling)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:36:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fef45163-9695-4492-a44d-bc05fee0539d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

> Hi,
> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system

Try this:

http://tinyurl.com/w7wgp

RD




From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:38:00 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:00 -0500
Subject: help with Python installation
In-Reply-To: <921d8fca-2cdc-4444-87c0-96f4072fbfdb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<921d8fca-2cdc-4444-87c0-96f4072fbfdb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ED2BA180-BC8D-4060-99D9-F91ADB668184@gmail.com>

>> I do not even
>> know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
>> I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
>> error window saying - upgrade windows.
> 
> Hmm, have you tried "upgrading windows, just a wild guess!

Hey, not everyone can afford to upgrade Windows and some hardware just can't handle the "new, improved" versions.

How about we all chip in to buy him a copy of Ubuntu?  Oh, wait, it's free...

S



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 21:44:17 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 02:44:17 GMT
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b89d880$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:57:15 -0800, dontspamleo wrote:

> I think a big part of the problem is that the scoping rules in Python
> are inconsistent because classes are a different kind of object. An
> example helps:
[...]
> But this doesn't work...
> class C:
>   x = 1
>   def f(self,y): return x + y
> 
> ...although what was probably meant was this, which does work... 
> class C:
>   x = 1
>   def f(self,y): return self.x + y

Yes, this is a deliberate design choice. See below.

 
> ...and really means this...
> class C:
>   x = 1
>   def f(self,y): return T.x + y

I don't understand what T is. Did you mean C?

If so, you are wrong. self.x is not the same as <class>.x due to 
inheritance rules. Consider one example:

>>> class A:
...     x = 1
...     def __init__(self, x=None):
...         if x is not None:
...             self.x = x
...
>>> class B(A):
...     def f(self, y): return self.x + y
...
>>> class C(A):
...     def f(self, y): return C.x + y
...
>>>
>>> B(5).f(10)
15
>>> C(5).f(10)
11


I have no doubt that there will be other examples involving multiple 
inheritance, but I trust I've made my point.


> I argue that it is more consistent to have the scope for classes be
> consistent with the scope of everything else, which makes the early/
> late binding point mute.

Yes, it would be more consistent, but less useful. Apart from methods 
themselves, using class attributes is a relatively rare thing to do, but 
using global level names inside methods is very common.

 
> I know this is a major change, that it would break existing code, etc.
> It would have been better to talk about these things before py3k. Still:
> 
> 1. Has this been discussed before?

Yes.
 
> 1. What would this suggestion break?

Nearly all existing code using classes, which is nearly everything.
 
> 2. What are the advantages of making the scope of class variables
> different? Maybe is it just a historical trait?

See the discussion in the PEP for introducing nested scopes in the first 
place:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0227/




-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 27 21:45:18 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:45:18 +0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <7uu1ooFiipU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<7uu1ooFiipU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B89D8BE.2040905@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Mel wrote:
> 
>> You could think of it as a not bad use of the design principle "Clear 
>> The Simple Stuff Out Of The Way First".  Destinations are commonly a 
>> lot simpler than sources
> 
> That's not usually true in assembly languages, though,
> where the source and destination are both very restricted
> and often about the same complexity.
> 
> That's not to say that right-to-left is the wrong way
> to do it in an assembly language, but there are less
> misleading words than "move" that could be used.
> 
> Z80 assembly language uses "load", which makes things
> considerably clearer:
> 
>   LD A, B  ; load A with B
> 
Some processors distinguish between "load" (memory to register) and
"store" (register to memory), and the destination and LHS operand of
binary operations might be the same register, for example:

     CLC ; clear the carry
     LDA first ; accumulator := byte at first
     ADCA second ; accumulator := accumulator + byte at second + carry
     STA result ; byte at third := accumulator



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 27 21:55:50 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:55:50 -0500
Subject: help with Python installation
In-Reply-To: <fef45163-9695-4492-a44d-bc05fee0539d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<fef45163-9695-4492-a44d-bc05fee0539d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmclvv$cp3$1@dough.gmane.org>

Rick Dooling wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system
> 
> Try this:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/w7wgp
> 
That explains how to install Python on Windows *XP*. Windows ME is no
longer a supported platform - the tools used to create it just aren't
able to support platforms that old.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From staticd at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:56:31 2010
From: staticd at gmail.com (staticd)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:56:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6b04c31f-fdaa-4f63-99fb-5bebe7ae4b0e@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 8:48?pm, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
> the problem.

Dude.  Give up.  There are a ton of __free__ distroz of linux out
there.  Your troubles are not worth the effort.  Why do I say this?
Let's say you do, eventually, figure out what's wrong.  Now what?

Why are you so attached to this machine with ME on it?

nd


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 27 22:14:49 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:14:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <038b8f03-c0bc-4ca3-b4eb-73e01ce7f69f@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 28 Feb, 01:48, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
> the problem. I tried all versions of python but having installation
> problems for all. Installation does not proceed and I get a message
> saying "dll required for installation could not be run". I do not even
> know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
> I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
> error window saying - upgrade windows.
> Is there no solution at all to installing python on WinME. I have
> checked registry several times online and have sought professional
> help but so far no success.
> Thanks, I will appreciate any help
> gujax

The docs (*) say that Python 2.5 is still compatible with Windows 9X
and ME, but that support for these platform was dropped at 2.6.  So
you should be able to install and run Python 2.5.

(*) http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html#installing-python

--
Arnaud


From staticd at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 22:37:50 2010
From: staticd at gmail.com (staticd)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:37:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com> <hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

> >Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
> >noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
> >language is just a tool to do a job?
>
> When do people learn that language makes a difference? ?I used to be a
> Perl programmer; these days, you'd have to triple my not-small salary to
> get me to even think about programming in Perl.

dude, you nailed it.  many times, if not _always_, the correct output
is important.  the method used to produce the output is irrelevant.


From wuhrrr at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 23:15:43 2010
From: wuhrrr at gmail.com (Hai Vu)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:15:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d90b1173-b634-42f9-8f9d-6fea21e21626@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 12:50?pm, Hal Styli <silly... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can someone please help.
> I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> in python...
>
> I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
>
> from something like this
>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
>
> to this
>
> dick,eggs,12
> tom,milk,2
> harry,bread,1
> tom,eggs,6
> dick,eggs,6
>
> I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> sed.
>
> Thanks for any constructive help given.
>
> Hal

Here is a sample XML file (I named it data.xml):
--------------------------
<orders>
	<order customer="john" product="eggs" quantity="12" />
	<order customer="cindy" product="bread" quantity="1" />
	<order customer="larry" product="tea bags" quantity="100" />
	<order customer="john" product="butter" quantity="1" />
	<order product="chicken" quantity="2" customer="derek" />
</orders>
--------------------------

Code:
--------------------------
import csv
import xml.sax

# Handle the XML file with the following structure:
# <orders>
#   <order attributes... /> ...
# </orders>
class OrdersHandler(xml.sax.handler.ContentHandler):
    def __init__(self, csvfile):
        # Open a csv file for output
        self.csvWriter = csv.writer(open(csvfile, 'w'))

    def startElement(self, name, attributes):
        # Only process the <order ... > element
        if name == 'order':
            # Construct a sorted list of attribute names in order to
            # guarantee rows are written in the same order. We assume
            # the XML elements contain the same attributes
            attributeNames = attributes.getNames()
            attributeNames.sort()

            # Construct a row and write it to the csv file
            row = []
            for name in attributeNames:
                row.append(attributes.getValue(name))
            self.csvWriter.writerow(row)

    def endDocument(self):
        # Destroy the csv writer object to close the file
        self.csvWriter = None

# Main
datafile = 'data.xml'
csvfile = 'data.csv'
ordersHandler = OrdersHandler(csvfile)
xml.sax.parse(datafile, ordersHandler)
--------------------------

To solve your problem, it is easier to use SAX than DOM. Basically,
use SAX to scan the XML file, if you encounter the element you like
(in this case <order ...>) then you process its attributes. In this
case, you sort the attributes, then write to a csv file.

--------------------------

References:

SAX Parser:
    http://docs.python.org/library/xml.sax.html

SAX Content Handler:
    http://docs.python.org/library/xml.sax.handler.html

Attributes Object:
    http://docs.python.org/library/xml.sax.reader.html#attributes-objects



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Feb 27 23:27:11 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:27:11 +1300
Subject: random.gauss: range
In-Reply-To: <4b888905$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b888905$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7uu91gFh1gU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> def pinned_gaussian(a, b, mu, sigma):
>     """Return a Gaussian random number pinned to [a, b]."""
>     return min(b, max(a, random.gauss(mu, sigma)))
> 
> def truncated_gauss(a, b, mu, sigma):
>     """Return a random number from a truncated Gaussian distribution."""
>     while 1:
>         x = random.gauss(mu, sigma)
>         if a <= x <= b:
>             return x

If it doesn't have to be strictly gaussian, another way is to
approximate it by adding some number of uniformly distributed
samples together. If you have n uniform samples ranging from
0 to a, the sum will be in the range 0 to n*a and the mean
will be n*a/2. The greater the value of n, the closer the
distribution will be to normal.

-- 
Greg


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Sat Feb 27 23:35:28 2010
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:35:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Turtle graphics speed(). Seems broken
In-Reply-To: <47B5B897.2030300@behnel.de>
References: <a6c686e8-2adf-403c-a489-4c892db865c9@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<47B5B897.2030300@behnel.de>
Message-ID: <27732940.post@talk.nabble.com>



Stefan Behnel-3 wrote:
> 
> Alexander.Oot at gmail.com wrote:
>> I think the speed function may be broken from the turtle graphics package
>> 
>> 
>> "from turtle import *
>> 
>> speed('fastest')
>> 
>> forward(50)"
>> 
>> 
>> I have tried all of the different speed settings, but I get no change
>> in the turtle's speed.... does anyone know how to fix this?
> 
> Use "xturtle"? :)
> 
> http://ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at/~python/xturtle/
> 
> Stefan
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

The Python library's implementation of turtle graphics is slow to the point
that many applications are simply impractical.  I recently converted a
program to Python/turtle graphics that was originally written by my son
using Processing; the result of the conversion is that the time to draw the
balls increased by a factor of roughly 50!  (The Processing version takes
less than 0.1 seconds to generate the image, while the Python version takes
almost 5 seconds on the same computer).  It would be good if this
performance problem can be fixed, either by patching the current
implementation of turtle graphics, or by replacing it with xturtle if that
is better. http://old.nabble.com/file/p27732940/balls.py balls.py 

-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Turtle-graphics-speed%28%29.-Seems-broken-tp15504443p27732940.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From rjngrj2010 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 00:46:21 2010
From: rjngrj2010 at gmail.com (gujax)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:46:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<fef45163-9695-4492-a44d-bc05fee0539d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ce2504f1-4c46-49ff-a550-a446513b1ec9@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 9:36?pm, Rick Dooling <rpdool... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system
>
> Try this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/w7wgp
>
> RD

I gave it a shot but the site installs the same version of
ActivePython which did install on my computer but does not open any
command windows. See my earlier posted e-mail.
Thanks anyway,





From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 00:49:22 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 06:49:22 +0100
Subject: Turtle graphics speed(). Seems broken
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1267331735.23598.python-list@python.org>
References: <a6c686e8-2adf-403c-a489-4c892db865c9@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<47B5B897.2030300@behnel.de>
	<mailman.10.1267331735.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmd055$mf8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Dr. Phillip M. Feldman:
> 
> Stefan Behnel-3 wrote:
>> Alexander.Oot at gmail.com wrote:
>>> I think the speed function may be broken from the turtle graphics package
>>>
>>>
>>> "from turtle import *
>>>
>>> speed('fastest')
>>>
>>> forward(50)"
>>>
>>>
>>> I have tried all of the different speed settings, but I get no change
>>> in the turtle's speed.... does anyone know how to fix this?
>> Use "xturtle"? :)
>>
>> http://ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at/~python/xturtle/
>>
>> Stefan
>> -- 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
> 
> The Python library's implementation of turtle graphics is slow to the point
> that many applications are simply impractical.  I recently converted a
> program to Python/turtle graphics that was originally written by my son
> using Processing; the result of the conversion is that the time to draw the
> balls increased by a factor of roughly 50!  (The Processing version takes
> less than 0.1 seconds to generate the image, while the Python version takes
> almost 5 seconds on the same computer).  It would be good if this
> performance problem can be fixed, either by patching the current
> implementation of turtle graphics, or by replacing it with xturtle if that
> is better. http://old.nabble.com/file/p27732940/balls.py balls.py 

Try to add

   turtle.tracer( 0 )

before generating the graphics, and

   turtle.update()

after.

It sort of speeds things up. :-)

To test it I had to rewrite your code a little, getting rid of the numpy 
dependency since I don't have numpy installed. Looks like this:


<code>
#from numpy import *
def array( data, dtype ): return data       # Emulate numpy array constructor

import random
from math import *
import sys
from time import time
import turtle # turtle graphics module

class Timer:
    """Track and record elapsed time, allowing an arbitrary number of timers."""

    from time import time

    # Constructor:
    def __init__(self):
       self.start= time()

    # Report elapsed time:
    def time(self):

       # Compute elapse time:
       elapsed= time() - self.start

       # Print elapsed time in seconds:
       print str(elapsed) + ' s',

       # If total elapsed time exceeds 60 seconds, also print time as
       # as minutes and seconds:
       if elapsed >= 60.0:
          minutes= numpy.floor(elapsed / 60.0)
          elapsed-= 60 * minutes
          print '= ' + num2str(minutes,0) + ' m ' + num2str(elapsed,3) + ' s'
       else:
          print

def main():


    # Section 1: User inputs.  All four arrays should have the same dimensions.

    balls_of_type = array([20, 20], dtype=int)
    radius_of_type= array([35, 25], dtype=float)
    mass_of_type  = array([4 ,  2], dtype=float)
    color_of_type = array([0 ,  1], dtype=int)

    canvas_width = 1000 # canvas width in pixels
    canvas_height= 800  # canvas height in pixels


    # Section 2: Setup.


    # Section 2.1: Initialize graphics.

    turtle.setup(width=canvas_width, height=canvas_height)

    # Use units of pixels for specifying locations on the screen:
    turtle.setworldcoordinates(0.0, 0.0, canvas_width, canvas_height)

    # Set background color to black:
    turtle.bgcolor("black")

    # We want to specify R, G, and B using whole numbers from 0 to 255:
    turtle.colormode(255)

    # Turn off animation and hide the turtle to get maximum drawing speed:
    turtle.speed('fastest')
    turtle.tracer( 0 )
    turtle.hideturtle()


    # Section 2.2: Preliminaries.

    ball_types= len(balls_of_type)

    max_tries= 1000
    tries= 0

    # The following variable counts the number of time ticks:
    tick= 0

    colors= [
      (255,    0,    0), # red
      ( 64,   64,  230), # blue, cobalt blue
      (125,    0,    0), # maroon
      (  0,  255,  255), # cyan,baby blue
      (255,  140,    0), # orange
      (  0,  255,    0), # green, light green
      (204,  128,    0), # brown
      (255,  200,  120), # light orange
      (255,  255,  140), # cream
      (0,    128,    0), # dark green, forest green
      (255,  128,  128), # peach
      (255,  255,    0), # yellow
      (0,      0,  204), # dark blue, navy blue
      (150,  355,  150), # light green
      (128,    0,  230), # purple
      (77,   204,    0), # avocado
      (255,  128,  255), # magenta, pink
      (0,    204,  204), # aqua, turquoise
      (230,  192,    0), # gold
      (255,  255,  255), # white
    ]

    # Allocate 2-element lists for basis and velocity vectors:
    u_hat= [0,0]
    v_hat= [0,0]
    uv_speed1b= [0,0]; # before the collision
    uv_speed2b= [0,0]; # before the collision
    uv_speed1a= [0,0]; # after the collision
    uv_speed2a= [0,0]; # after the collision


    # Section 2.3: Calculate the number of balls and allocate arrays whose sizes
    # depend on this.

    # `balls` is the total number of balls:
    balls= sum( balls_of_type )

    x         = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)
    y         = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)
    x_speed   = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)
    y_speed   = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)

    radius    = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)
    mass      = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)

    ball_type = balls*[0]    #zeros(balls, dtype=int)
    ball_color= [] # empty list


    # Section 2.4: Assign a ball type, radius, mass, color, initial position,
    # and initial velocity to each ball.

    n= -1

    for i in range(ball_types):

       # Valid color numbers are 0-19.  If the color number of a ball type is
       # greater than 19, the following line of code fixes the problem by randomly
       # assigning acolor number.
       if color_of_type[i] >= 20: color_of_type[i]= random.randint(0, 20)

       # In the following loop, j is the ball number for the ith type of ball:
       for j in range(balls_of_type[i]):

          # After the following statement executes, `n` will be one less than the
          # number of balls generated.
          n+= 1

          ball_type[n]= i

          radius[n]= radius_of_type[i]
          mass  [n]= mass_of_type  [i]

          ball_color.append( colors[color_of_type[i]] )

          # Continue loop until center coordinates for ball[n] are such that this
          # ball does not overlap any previously generated ball.  If the number of
          # iterations exceeds max_tries, then the program stops the loop if this
          # happens, the program doesn't work because there is not enough space
          # for all the balls in the container.

          for tries in range(max_tries):

             # generate random ball center coordinates:
             keepout= radius[n] + 2.0
             x[n]= random.uniform(keepout, canvas_width  - keepout)
             y[n]= random.uniform(keepout, canvas_height - keepout)

             # Check to see if two balls have been generated on top of each other.
             # First, we set good to True.  True means that this ball does not
             # overlap any of the other balls that we have checked so far.  At the
             # end of the inner loop, if good= False, this means that the ball did
             # overlap at least one of the previous balls, and the program goes back
             # to the top of the outer loop and generates new coordinates for the
             # current ball.

             good= True

             for m in range(n): # innermost loop
                dx= x[m] - x[n]
                dy= y[m] - y[n]
                d= sqrt(dx*dx + dy*dy)
                if (d <= radius[m] + radius[n] + 10):
                   good= False
                   break

             # end for inner for loop

             if good: break

          # end of loop over tries

          if not good:
            print "\nERROR: Not enough space for balls.\n"
            sys.exit()

          # Assign a random initial velocity to the current ball:
          theta= random.uniform(0.0, 2.0*pi)
          x_speed[n]= 2. * cos(theta)
          y_speed[n]= 2. * sin(theta)

       # end of loop over j (number of ball of current ball type)
    # end of loop over i (number of ball type)


    # Section 3: Draw the balls.

    # Initialize timer:
    t= Timer()

    for n in range(balls):

       turtle.penup()
       turtle.goto(x[n], y[n])
       turtle.pendown()

       turtle.color(ball_color[n])
       turtle.begin_fill()
       turtle.circle(radius[n])
       turtle.end_fill()

    turtle.update()

    # Display elapsed time:
    print "Total drawing time: ",
    t.time()
    raw_input('Hit Enter to close figure window.')

if __name__ == "__main__":
    msg = main()
    print(msg)
</code>


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rjngrj2010 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 00:51:32 2010
From: rjngrj2010 at gmail.com (gujax)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:51:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6b04c31f-fdaa-4f63-99fb-5bebe7ae4b0e@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2feb50ee-515f-48d9-99c0-772327597217@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 9:56?pm, staticd <stat... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 8:48?pm, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> > years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
> > the problem.
>
> Dude. ?Give up. ?There are a ton of __free__ distroz of linux out
> there. ?Your troubles are not worth the effort. ?Why do I say this?
> Let's say you do, eventually, figure out what's wrong. ?Now what?
>
> Why are you so attached to this machine with ME on it?
>
> nd

I agree with you. I have a CD of Xubuntu. I tried booting up with the
CD and was impressed. I noticed few problems with screen resolution,
window size etc. I am not yet sure which distroz is the best for an
instrument with a 512 Mb RAM, 700MHz pentium III chip and about 10Gb
mem. Not sure if this is the right forum for this topic though,
And no, I am not at all attached to Win, though wouldn't say the same
for my computer.
Cheers,
gujax



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Sun Feb 28 01:07:41 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:07:41 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <fad5c5ec-c1d9-4eed-a09c-5d47de501baf@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<fad5c5ec-c1d9-4eed-a09c-5d47de501baf@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmd17e$rs5$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 27.02.2010 10:00, schrieb alex23:
> Michael Rudolf<spamfres... at ch3ka.de>  wrote:
>> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend
>
> Guido wrote a nice article[1] on "multimethods" using decorators,
> which Ian Bicking followed up on[2] with a non-global approach.
>
> 1: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=101605
> 2: http://blog.ianbicking.org/more-on-multimethods.html


Nice!
I really liked 
http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/03/30/five-minute-multimethods-in-python-using-dispatch/


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 02:22:31 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 23:22:31 -0800
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.145.1266968505.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmd5jn$io0$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.145.1266968505.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>>
>> If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists. Examples:
>> 
>>     ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
>> parenthesis ()
>
>Actually, a tuple is made with commas...the parens are just there 
>to clarify the order of operations and make it easier to read :)
>
>   >>> x = 1,2,3
>   >>> x
>   (1, 2, 3)

Almost true:

>>> x = ()
>>> x
()

Parentheses are definitely needed for the empty tuple.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 02:28:39 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 23:28:39 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.247.1267115557.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmd5v7$bir$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.247.1267115557.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Robert Kern  <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>If you are storing the password instead of making your user remember
>it, most platforms have some kind of keychain secure password
>storage. I recommend reading up on the APIs available on your targeted
>platforms.

Are you sure?  I haven't done a lot of research, but my impression was
that Windows didn't have anything built in.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From trstrstrs123 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 02:48:22 2010
From: trstrstrs123 at gmail.com (trstrstrs trstrstrs)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:48:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Paper Presentation Topics
Message-ID: <b68e6956-9c8c-456b-8120-adaebb569be6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

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From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Feb 28 03:05:11 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:05:11 +0100
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hal Styli, 27.02.2010 21:50:
> I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> in python...

Note that sed (or any other line based or text based tool) is not a
sensible way to handle XML. If you want to read XML, use an XML parser.
They are designed to do exactly what you want in a standard compliant way,
and they can deal with all sorts of XML formatting and encoding, for example.


> I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
> 
> from something like this
> 
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >

As others have noted, this doesn't tell much about your XML. A more
complete example would be helpful.


> to this
> 
> dick,eggs,12
> tom,milk,2
> harry,bread,1
> tom,eggs,6
> dick,eggs,6
> 
> I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> sed.

It's funny how often people still think that SAX is a good way to solve XML
problems. Here's an untested solution that uses xml.etree.ElementTree:

    from xml.etree import ElementTree as ET

    csv_field_order = ['cust', 'product', 'quantity']

    clean_up_used_elements = None
    for event, element in ET.iterparse("thefile.xml", events=['start']):
        # you may want to select a specific element.tag here

        # format and print the CSV line to the standard output
        print(','.join(element.attrib.get(title, '')
                       for title in csv_field_order))

        # safe some memory (in case the XML file is very large)
        if clean_up_used_elements is None:
            # this assigns the clear() method of the root (first) element
            clean_up_used_elements = element.clear
        clean_up_used_elements()

You can strip everything dealing with 'clean_up_used_elements' (basically
the last section) if your XML file is small enough to fit into memory (a
couple of MB is usually fine).

Stefan



From m.92ahesh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 03:14:13 2010
From: m.92ahesh at gmail.com (jaagar)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:14:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Paper Presentation Topics
Message-ID: <ffa92920-bc86-4ff7-ba74-d3ffb527058a@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

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From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Feb 28 03:43:10 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:43:10 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.247.1267115557.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hmd5v7$bir$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xwrxxrbs1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> Are you sure?  I haven't done a lot of research, but my impression was
> that Windows didn't have anything built in.

I don't know much about the windows but there is the CAPI and then
there is all the TCPA (i.e. DRM) stuff.  Maybe it can be used somehow.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 28 03:48:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 08:48:31 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com> <hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:37:50 -0800, staticd wrote:

>> >Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
>> >noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
>> >language is just a tool to do a job?
>>
>> When do people learn that language makes a difference? ?I used to be a
>> Perl programmer; these days, you'd have to triple my not-small salary
>> to get me to even think about programming in Perl.
> 
> dude, you nailed it.  many times, if not _always_, the correct output is
> important.  the method used to produce the output is irrelevant.

Oh really?

Then by that logic, you would consider that these two functions are both 
equally good. Forget readability, forget maintainability, forget 
efficiency, we have no reason for preferring one over the other since the 
method is irrelevant.


def greet1(name):
    """Print 'Hello <name>' for any name."""
    print "Hello", name


def greet2(name):
    """Print 'Hello <name>' for any name."""
    count = 0
    for i in range(0, ("Hello", name).__len__(), 1):
        word = ("Hello", name).__getitem__(i)
        for i in range(0, word[:].__len__(), 1):
            c = word.__getitem__(i)
            import sys
            import string
            empty = ''
            maketrans = getattr.__call__(string, 'maketrans')
            chars = maketrans.__call__(empty, empty)
            stdout = getattr.__call__(sys, 'stdout')
            write = getattr.__call__(stdout, 'write')
            write.__call__(c)
        count = count.__add__(1)
        import operator
        eq = getattr.__call__(operator, 'eq')
        ne = getattr.__call__(operator, 'ne')
        if eq.__call__(count, 2):
            pass
        elif not ne.__call__(count, 2):
            continue
        write.__call__(chr.__call__(32))
    write.__call__(chr.__call__(10))
    return None



There ought to be some kind of competition for the least efficient 
solution to programming problems-ly y'rs,


-- 
Steven


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 03:52:14 2010
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:52:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6b04c31f-fdaa-4f63-99fb-5bebe7ae4b0e@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> 
	<2feb50ee-515f-48d9-99c0-772327597217@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <98403c0c-f545-4b96-bb1c-08e5f2bf5f3a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 12:51?am, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with you. I have a CD of Xubuntu. I tried
> booting up with the CD and was impressed. I noticed
> few problems with screen resolution, window size etc.

Though it may be worth working out any niggling problems to switch to
Linux, I don't think you should feel pressured to switch if you are
comfortable with Win ME on that particular machine.

> And no, I am not at all attached to Win, though wouldn't
> say the same for my computer.

It sounds like you could have switched to Linux and resolved any
configuration problems in the two years you've been trying to install
Python. ;)  But that said, I have used older versions of Python
without any trouble on Win ME.  In fact, I still have a Win ME machine
running 2.5.2.

According to the docs, you have to have Microsoft Installer 2.0
(freely downloadable from Microsoft if necessary) to use the 2.5 MSI
distribution:

  http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.5.4/

If for whatever reason you can't or don't want to do this, 2.3 still
has an EXE distribution:

  http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.3.5/

John


From brown_emu at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 28 05:00:45 2010
From: brown_emu at yahoo.com (Stephen Tucker)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:00:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: getting rpy2 from repository
Message-ID: <655447.28185.qm@web39705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all, I have Enthought Python 4.3 installed on my OS X 10.5. When I do $ easy_install rpy2

Searching for rpy2
No matching release version found. Searching for latest development version.
Reading http://www.enthought.com/repo/epd/eggs/MacOSX/10.4_x86/
Please enter credentials to access this repository:
User Name: 

Is there a way to point to the original (non-Enthought) repository, or is there a better way?

Thanks very much in advance!

Stephen



      


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Feb 28 06:05:12 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:05:12 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hmdil8$eqc$2@dough.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano, 28.02.2010 09:48:
> There ought to be some kind of competition for the least efficient 
> solution to programming problems

That wouldn't be very interesting. You could just write a code generator
that spits out tons of garbage code including a line that solves the
problem, and then let it execute the code afterwards. That beast would
always win.

Stefan



From dontsendleospam at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 06:45:38 2010
From: dontsendleospam at gmail.com (dontspamleo)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:45:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<4b89d880$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6cc72563-2720-4fa9-a11a-6fe9f0b7e197@c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

> > ...and really means this...
> > class C:
> > ? x = 1
> > ? def f(self,y): return T.x + y
>
> I don't understand what T is. Did you mean C?

Yes, I meant C. Thanks.

>
> If so, you are wrong. self.x is not the same as <class>.x due to
> inheritance rules. Consider one example:
>
<example snipped see thread/>

Thanks for the nice example. Sorry for my loose language. By "really
means", what I really meant was that the most appropriate construct
should be the one referring to the class variable explicitly. I would
consider it inelegant (at least) to use an instance variable with the
same name as a class variable.

>
> > 1. Has this been discussed before?
>
> Yes.
>
> > 1. What would this suggestion break?
>
> Nearly all existing code using classes, which is nearly everything.

Is it that common to have code containing a class variable with the
same name as a global variable? Are there other use cases that would
break?

>
> > 2. What are the advantages of making the scope of class variables
> > different? Maybe is it just a historical trait?
>
> See the discussion in the PEP for introducing nested scopes in the first
> place:
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0227/
>

Thanks. That is really useful. I just read the PEP. I find this
paragraph very helpful:

"An alternative would have been to allow name binding in class
    scope to behave exactly like name binding in function scope.  This
    rule would allow class attributes to be referenced either via
    attribute reference or simple name.  This option was ruled out
    because it would have been inconsistent with all other forms of
    class and instance attribute access, which always use attribute
    references.  Code that used simple names would have been obscure."

The point about all other access use cases requiring attribute
references is a really good one. If a language requires self.f() to
access the member f of class C, which happens to be a function, then
self.x or C.x should also be required to access attribute x. And no
one would be crazy enough to ask to have that fixed.

@Steven: Are there other snippets from the PEP you were pointing to
specifically?

Cheers,
Leo.



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Sun Feb 28 06:51:31 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:51:31 +0000
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1267355406.23598.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>	<hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.13.1267355406.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmdlc0$ocq$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/28/10 11:05, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano, 28.02.2010 09:48:
>> There ought to be some kind of competition for the least efficient
>> solution to programming problems
>
> That wouldn't be very interesting. You could just write a code generator
> that spits out tons of garbage code including a line that solves the
> problem, and then let it execute the code afterwards. That beast would
> always win.
>
> Stefan
>
Well that would be an obvious rule that garbage code that does not 
contribute to the end result (ie can be taken out without affecting the 
end result) would not be allowed. Enforcing the rule is another beast 
though, but I would leave that to the competition.

Though the idea of a code generator is solid, but instead of generating 
garbage, produces a virtual machine that implements a generator that 
produces a virtual machine, etc. etc.

-- 
mph


From roland.em0001 at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 07:01:03 2010
From: roland.em0001 at googlemail.com (Roland Mueller)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:01:03 +0200
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <42dbeab41002280401t2916240ak1d4bba1bcf51a5c1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2010/2/28 Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de>

> Hal Styli, 27.02.2010 21:50:
> > I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> > in python...
>
> Note that sed (or any other line based or text based tool) is not a
> sensible way to handle XML. If you want to read XML, use an XML parser.
> They are designed to do exactly what you want in a standard compliant way,
> and they can deal with all sorts of XML formatting and encoding, for
> example.
>
>
> > I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
> >
> > from something like this
> >
> > < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> > < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> > < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> > < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> > < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
>
> As others have noted, this doesn't tell much about your XML. A more
> complete example would be helpful.
>
>
> > to this
> >
> > dick,eggs,12
> > tom,milk,2
> > harry,bread,1
> > tom,eggs,6
> > dick,eggs,6
> >
> > I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> > ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> > parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> > sed.
>
>
another solution in this case could be to use an XSLT stylesheet. That way
the input processing is defined in an XSLT stylesheet.

The stylesheet is test.xsl and the insput data test.xml. The following
Python code the applies the stylesheet on the input data and puts the output
into foo.

Python code:
#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
import libxml2
import libxslt

styledoc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xsl")
style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styledoc)
doc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xml")
result = style.applyStylesheet(doc, None)
style.saveResultToFilename("foo", result, 0)

BR,
Roland

*Example run in Linux:*
roland at komputer:~/Desktop/XML/XSLT$ ./xslt_test.py
roland at komputer:~/Desktop/XML/XSLT$ cat foo
john,eggs,12
cindy,bread,1
larry,tea bags,100
john,butter,1
derek,chicken,2
derek,milk,2
*
The test.xsl stylesheet:*
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<xsl:stylesheet
  xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform"
  xmlns:fo="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Format"
  version="1.0">

<!-- text output because we want to have an CSV file -->
<xsl:output method="text"/>

<!-- remove all whitespace coming with input XML -->
<xsl:strip-space elements="*"/>

<!-- matches any <order> element and extracts the customer,product&quantity
attributes -->
<xsl:template match="order">
  <xsl:value-of select="@customer"/>
  <xsl:text>,</xsl:text>
  <xsl:value-of select="@product"/>
  <xsl:text>,</xsl:text>
  <xsl:value-of select="@quantity"/>
  <xsl:text>
</xsl:text>
</xsl:template>

</xsl:stylesheet>
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From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Feb 28 07:15:09 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:15:09 +0100
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <42dbeab41002280401t2916240ak1d4bba1bcf51a5c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<42dbeab41002280401t2916240ak1d4bba1bcf51a5c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hmdmod$qo1$1@dough.gmane.org>

Roland Mueller, 28.02.2010 13:01:
> The stylesheet is test.xsl and the insput data test.xml. The following
> Python code the applies the stylesheet on the input data and puts the output
> into foo.
> 
> Python code:
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> import libxml2
> import libxslt
> 
> styledoc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xsl")
> style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styledoc)
> doc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xml")
> result = style.applyStylesheet(doc, None)
> style.saveResultToFilename("foo", result, 0)
> 
> BR,
> Roland
> 
> *Example run in Linux:*
> roland at komputer:~/Desktop/XML/XSLT$ ./xslt_test.py

Note that the shorthand for the above is

    $ xsltproc test.xsl test.xml > foo

Stefan



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Sun Feb 28 07:38:14 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:38:14 +0100
Subject: Method / Functions - What are the differences?
Message-ID: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Out of curiosity I tried this and it actually worked as expected:

 >>> class T(object):
	x=[]
	foo=x.append
	def f(self):
		return self.x

	
 >>> t=T()
 >>> t.f()
[]
 >>> T.foo(1)
 >>> t.f()
[1]
 >>>

At first I thought "hehe, always fun to play around with python. Might 
be useful sometimes" - but then It really confused me what I did. I 
mean: f is what we call a method, right? But was is foo? It is not a 
method and not a classmethod as it accepts no self and no cls.
So that leaves staticmethod? OK, fair, as x is "static" here anyway this 
reflects what it does. But then consider this:

 >>> class T(object):
	def __init__(self):
		self.x=[]
		self.foo=self.x.append
	def f(self):
		return self.x

	
 >>> y=T()
 >>> y.x
[]
 >>> y.foo(1)
 >>> y.x
[1]
 >>> a=T()
 >>> a.x
[]
 >>> a.foo(2)
 >>> a.x
[2]
 >>>

Note that all I did was moving the list and foo into the instance. Still 
no self and no cls, but also no static behaviour any more.

So is foo just nothing of the above and really only a class/instance 
attribute which happens to be callable?

Perhaps this all does not matter, but now I am really confused about the 
terminology. So: what makes a method a method? And of what type?

Regards,
Michael


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Sun Feb 28 07:43:51 2010
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 12:43:51 GMT
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2549.1266184509.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kyjy13.2eb@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.2549.1266184509.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:33:54 +0100, Karsten Goen
><karsten.goen at googlemail.com> declaimed the following in
>gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for
>> every possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible
>> for a computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and
>> slower.
>>
>       Most ALL calculators that I've encountered use packed BCD internally
>for numeric data. That is -- two decimal digits (0-9) and a few special
>codes (mantissa sign, exponent sign, decimal point location, and
>exponent start). A lot of them (though strangely not HP) included "guard
>digits" -- they would display, say, 8 significant digits for results,
>but kept 10 digits internally, so that rounding errors wouldn't
>accumulate as rapidly. M$ Excel/Access/VisualBasic "money" data type

What is displayed has no influence on rounding errors.
Calculator vendors prevent puzzlement by non-knowledgeable users
by having guard digits. HP apparently deals with professional users,
so I think it not strange at all.

>carries four decimal places, on the assumption that only two are
>significant, and the last two are guards.
>
>       Most ALL computers are using IEEE floating point (and the exceptions
>are still a binary floating point, not a decimal representation).
>
>       The practice, which /used to be/ taught, is that one does not
>compare floating numbers for equality, but rather one compares the
>difference between floating numbers to be less than some epsilon value;
>epsilon chosen depending upon the significance needed.
>
>       Rather than comparing
>
>               a = b
>
>one uses
>
>               abs(a - b) < epsilon
>
>       Since Decimal() also has "infinite" series values (1.0/3.0), an
>epsilon comparison may also be called for.

Not may be.

>--
>       Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG

Groetjes Albert

--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From roland.em0001 at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 08:21:26 2010
From: roland.em0001 at googlemail.com (Roland Mueller)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:21:26 +0200
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <hmdmod$qo1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<42dbeab41002280401t2916240ak1d4bba1bcf51a5c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<hmdmod$qo1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <42dbeab41002280521s73b01689x82f8f73f60da5587@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/28 Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de>

> Roland Mueller, 28.02.2010 13:01:
> > The stylesheet is test.xsl and the insput data test.xml. The following
> > Python code the applies the stylesheet on the input data and puts the
> output
> > into foo.
> >
> > Python code:
> > #!/usr/bin/python
> > import sys
> > import libxml2
> > import libxslt
> >
> > styledoc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xsl")
> > style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styledoc)
> > doc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xml")
> > result = style.applyStylesheet(doc, None)
> > style.saveResultToFilename("foo", result, 0)
> >
> > BR,
> > Roland
> >
> > *Example run in Linux:*
> > roland at komputer:~/Desktop/XML/XSLT$ ./xslt_test.py
>
> Note that the shorthand for the above is
>
>    $ xsltproc test.xsl test.xml > foo
>
> yes, that's true, and probably the best way to use XML stylesheets in
Linux.

However, this is a Python ML, and so I was sending the Python example. The
original poster does not necessarily use Linux, and I do not know about
Windos tools in that regard.

BR,
Roland


> Stefan
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From john at castleamber.com  Sun Feb 28 08:48:40 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:48:40 -0600
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b89cee0$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87pr3pa2tj.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:27:04 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
>
>> When do people learn that a
>> language is just a tool to do a job?
>
> When do people learn that there are different sorts of tools? A 
> professional wouldn't use a screwdriver when they need a hammer.

[...]

> Languages are not just nebulous interchangeable "tools", they're tools 

A hammer is just a tool to do a job. Doesn't mean one must or should use
a hammer to paint a wall.

> for a particular job with particular strengths and weaknesses, and 
> depending on what strengths you value and what weaknesses you dislike, 
> some tools simply are better than other tools for certain tasks.

In short, we agree.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 09:08:49 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:08:49 +0100
Subject: Method / Functions - What are the differences?
In-Reply-To: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hmdtdk$50i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Michael Rudolf:
> Out of curiosity I tried this and it actually worked as expected:
> 
>  >>> class T(object):
>     x=[]
>     foo=x.append
>     def f(self):
>         return self.x
> 
>     
>  >>> t=T()
>  >>> t.f()
> []
>  >>> T.foo(1)
>  >>> t.f()
> [1]
>  >>>
> 
> At first I thought "hehe, always fun to play around with python. Might 
> be useful sometimes" - but then It really confused me what I did. I 
> mean: f is what we call a method, right? But was is foo?

foo is (refers to) an object that supports call notation and that forwards calls 
somewhere else, in this case to append on a list.

You might call it (descriptive) a call forwarder, or (C# or general terminology) 
a delegate, or (Python 2.x) a bound method.


<example>
   >>> "Hello".upper
   <built-in method upper of str object at 0x00BA16E0>
   >>> f = "Hello".upper
   >>> f
   <built-in method upper of str object at 0x00BA16E0>
   >>> f()
   'HELLO'
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> f.__self__
   'Hello'
   >>> f.__call__
   <method-wrapper '__call__' of builtin_function_or_method object at 0x00BDD170>
   >>> print( f.__doc__ )
   S.upper() -> str

   Return a copy of S converted to uppercase.
   >>> _
</example>


A common use for delegates is as command handlers in a GUI application, and in 
general for event notifications.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rtw at rtw.me.uk  Sun Feb 28 09:24:06 2010
From: rtw at rtw.me.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:24:06 -0600
Subject: Method / Functions - What are the differences?
References: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <Xns9D2D92DAAC613rtwfreenetREMOVEcouk@216.196.109.145>

Michael Rudolf wrote in news:hmdo3m$287$1 at news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de in 
comp.lang.python:

> Note that all I did was moving the list and foo into the instance. Still 
> no self and no cls, but also no static behaviour any more.

Yes in the first case foo was an attribute of the class, and in the second
an attribute of aon instance of the class.

In both cases it was a bound method, something similar too:

  lambda item : T.x.append( item )



From fordhaivat at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 09:28:07 2010
From: fordhaivat at gmail.com (Someone Something)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:28:07 -0500
Subject: cpan for python?
Message-ID: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>

Is there something like cpan for python? I like python's syntax, but I use
perl because of cpan and the tremendous modules that it has.
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From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 09:31:56 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:31:56 -0500
Subject: cpan for python?
In-Reply-To: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <383DBB77-A002-4C7D-9DB4-1371AF693070@gmail.com>


On Feb 28, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Someone Something wrote:

> Is there something like cpan for python? I like python's syntax, but I use perl because of cpan and the tremendous modules that it has.  -- 

Please search the mailing list archives.  

This subject has been discussed to absolute death.  

Draw your own conclusions about what is currently and may, in the future, be available.

S



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 09:42:00 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 06:42:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Printing the arguments of an attribute in a class
Message-ID: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

I have a class that is a wrapper:

class wrapper:
    def __init__(self, object):
        self.wrapped = object
    def __getattr__(self, attrname):
        print 'Trace: ', attrname
        #print arguments to attrname, how?
        return getattr(self.wrapped, attrname)

I can run it this way:

>>> x = wrapper([1,2,3])
>>> x.append(4)
Trace:  append
>>> x.wrapped
[1, 2, 3, 4]

I am able to capture the attribute name to x (that is, append).
However, I do not know how to capture and print all of its arguments
(in this case number 4).

How should I proceed?

Thank you


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 10:00:19 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:00:19 +0100
Subject: Printing the arguments of an attribute in a class
In-Reply-To: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hme0e6$nmr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* vsoler:
> I have a class that is a wrapper:
> 
> class wrapper:
>     def __init__(self, object):
>         self.wrapped = object
>     def __getattr__(self, attrname):
>         print 'Trace: ', attrname
>         #print arguments to attrname, how?
>         return getattr(self.wrapped, attrname)
> 
> I can run it this way:
> 
>>>> x = wrapper([1,2,3])
>>>> x.append(4)
> Trace:  append
>>>> x.wrapped
> [1, 2, 3, 4]
> 
> I am able to capture the attribute name to x (that is, append).
> However, I do not know how to capture and print all of its arguments
> (in this case number 4).
> 
> How should I proceed?

If your goal is just learning then in your __getattr__ you might return a 
wrapper for the attribute instead of the attribute itself. Equip the wrapper 
with a __call__ method if it is a method. And equip it with other special 
methods as appropriate.

I can imagine that that approach will lead to some practical problems, but it 
may be great for learning.

If your goal is tracing, then I suggest looking at the "trace" module.

If your goal is something else purely practical, like intercepting method calls 
to do arbitrary things (logging, marshaling, whatever) then I suspect that it 
might getspretty complicated, hairy. For specific method calls you might just 
use subclassing, but for doing this in general, parameterized, you'd need to 
about the same kinds of things as the trace module does. So I guess then one 
idea might be to look at the source code of that module.

But if that's what you intend to do, then best check first if there is an 
existing solution. ParcPlace did this thing for a number of languages and 
introduced a special term for it, I can't recall but something like 
"cross-whatever mumbo jumbo concerns" plus one single catchy name. There might 
be an existing Python implementation.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 10:31:30 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:31:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Printing the arguments of an attribute in a class
References: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hme0e6$nmr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <bee55ba8-50bd-4317-89d6-732e456f3049@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 4:00?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * vsoler:
>
>
>
> > I have a class that is a wrapper:
>
> > class wrapper:
> > ? ? def __init__(self, object):
> > ? ? ? ? self.wrapped = object
> > ? ? def __getattr__(self, attrname):
> > ? ? ? ? print 'Trace: ', attrname
> > ? ? ? ? #print arguments to attrname, how?
> > ? ? ? ? return getattr(self.wrapped, attrname)
>
> > I can run it this way:
>
> >>>> x = wrapper([1,2,3])
> >>>> x.append(4)
> > Trace: ?append
> >>>> x.wrapped
> > [1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> > I am able to capture the attribute name to x (that is, append).
> > However, I do not know how to capture and print all of its arguments
> > (in this case number 4).
>
> > How should I proceed?
>
> If your goal is just learning then in your __getattr__ you might return a
> wrapper for the attribute instead of the attribute itself. Equip the wrapper
> with a __call__ method if it is a method. And equip it with other special
> methods as appropriate.
>
> I can imagine that that approach will lead to some practical problems, but it
> may be great for learning.
>
> If your goal is tracing, then I suggest looking at the "trace" module.
>
> If your goal is something else purely practical, like intercepting method calls
> to do arbitrary things (logging, marshaling, whatever) then I suspect that it
> might getspretty complicated, hairy. For specific method calls you might just
> use subclassing, but for doing this in general, parameterized, you'd need to
> about the same kinds of things as the trace module does. So I guess then one
> idea might be to look at the source code of that module.
>
> But if that's what you intend to do, then best check first if there is an
> existing solution. ParcPlace did this thing for a number of languages and
> introduced a special term for it, I can't recall but something like
> "cross-whatever mumbo jumbo concerns" plus one single catchy name. There might
> be an existing Python implementation.
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

Alf,

My goal is just learning. In the code provided in the post I just
can't think of a method to "see", "capture" or "use" the parameters. I
am going to study the __call__ method and see if I can figure out how
I can capture the parameters.

Thank you Alf


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 11:27:22 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:27:22 +0100
Subject: cpan for python?
In-Reply-To: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002280827u71e153e1j39b7b303c2dc61d1@mail.gmail.com>

> Is there something like cpan for python? I like python's syntax, but I use
> perl because of cpan and the tremendous modules that it has.

It's called PyPI or Cheese Shop:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi

<OFF>
Is it only me or others also mentally read C-SPAN when somebody writes CPAN?
</OFF>

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Sun Feb 28 11:39:03 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:03 +0100
Subject: Method / Functions - What are the differences?
In-Reply-To: <hmdtdk$50i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hmdtdk$50i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hme677$5ai$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 28.02.2010 15:08, schrieb Alf P. Steinbach:
>  >>> "Hello".upper
> <built-in method upper of str object at 0x00BA16E0>
>  >>> f = "Hello".upper
>  >>> f
> <built-in method upper of str object at 0x00BA16E0>
>  >>> f()
>    'HELLO'
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> f.__self__
>    'Hello'

Holy hand grenade.
You have no Idea how enlightened I feel right now :D

Thank you, "bound method" was the term I forgot and your example... 
...totally revealed the internals behind this to me. Especially the last 
line I quoted.
I mean, I always knew *that* this works, but I never knew *why*.

Regards,
Michael


From wuhrrr at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 11:41:21 2010
From: wuhrrr at gmail.com (Hai Vu)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:41:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.11.1267344325.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7431a354-b9cb-490b-8b8b-b8f73d9698a8@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 12:05?am, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Hal Styli, 27.02.2010 21:50:
>
> > I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> > in python...
>
> Note that sed (or any other line based or text based tool) is not a
> sensible way to handle XML. If you want to read XML, use an XML parser.
> They are designed to do exactly what you want in a standard compliant way,
> and they can deal with all sorts of XML formatting and encoding, for example.
>
> > I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
>
> > from something like this
>
> > < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> > < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> > < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> > < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> > < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
>
> As others have noted, this doesn't tell much about your XML. A more
> complete example would be helpful.
>
> > to this
>
> > dick,eggs,12
> > tom,milk,2
> > harry,bread,1
> > tom,eggs,6
> > dick,eggs,6
>
> > I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> > ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> > parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> > sed.
>
> It's funny how often people still think that SAX is a good way to solve XML
> problems. Here's an untested solution that uses xml.etree.ElementTree:
>
> ? ? from xml.etree import ElementTree as ET
>
> ? ? csv_field_order = ['cust', 'product', 'quantity']
>
> ? ? clean_up_used_elements = None
> ? ? for event, element in ET.iterparse("thefile.xml", events=['start']):
> ? ? ? ? # you may want to select a specific element.tag here
>
> ? ? ? ? # format and print the CSV line to the standard output
> ? ? ? ? print(','.join(element.attrib.get(title, '')
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for title in csv_field_order))
>
> ? ? ? ? # safe some memory (in case the XML file is very large)
> ? ? ? ? if clean_up_used_elements is None:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? # this assigns the clear() method of the root (first) element
> ? ? ? ? ? ? clean_up_used_elements = element.clear
> ? ? ? ? clean_up_used_elements()
>
> You can strip everything dealing with 'clean_up_used_elements' (basically
> the last section) if your XML file is small enough to fit into memory (a
> couple of MB is usually fine).
>
> Stefan

This solution is so beautiful and elegant. Thank you. Now I am off to
learn ElementTree.

By the way, Stefan, I am using Python 2.6. Do you know the differences
between ElementTree and cElementTree?


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Feb 28 11:41:29 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:41:29 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org> <7uu1ooFiipU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <hme6dq$k9d$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Gregory Ewing wrote:

> Mel wrote:
> 
>> You could think of it as a not bad use of the design principle "Clear The
>> Simple Stuff Out Of The Way First".  Destinations are commonly a lot
>> simpler than sources

Calculations for immediate values could be just about anything.

	Mel.




From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Sun Feb 28 11:43:07 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:43:07 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002270937n79ed285bh1715671e3c5a2958@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002270937n79ed285bh1715671e3c5a2958@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002281743.07452.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le samedi 27 f?vrier 2010 18:37:22, Daniel Fetchinson a ?crit :
> It's google's hosting solution called app engine, for python web
> applications: http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/gettingstarted/
> 
> I guess they also have some kind of a sandbox if they let people run
> python on their machines, I'm not sure if it's open source though.

Yes, Google AppEngine has its Python sandbox and the source code is available 
online. I don't know the license. I found 7 vulnerabilities in 1 hour :-) I 
contacted Google security team.

To answer to your question "How is [AppEngine] different from your project?":

 * pysanbox has an import whitelist, whereas AppEngine has an import blacklist 
(subprocess, socket, ... builtin modules are replaced by safe versions). 
Import a Python module written in C is forbidden. 
 * Import a module in AppEngine imports all symbols, whereas pysandbox uses 
also a symbol whitelist.
 * AppEngine doesn't have proxies, all objects are modifiable (eg. sys.path)

There are other differences, but I prefer to wait for the answer from Google 
before telling you more :)

AppEngine sandbox and pysandbox projects are very close: most protections are 
based on blacklists, whereas RestrictedPython is only based on whitelists.

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 12:51:44 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:51:44 +0000
Subject: Printing the arguments of an attribute in a class
References: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2r5o5s0y7.fsf@googlemail.com>

vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> writes:

> I have a class that is a wrapper:
>
> class wrapper:
>     def __init__(self, object):
>         self.wrapped = object
>     def __getattr__(self, attrname):
>         print 'Trace: ', attrname
>         #print arguments to attrname, how?
>         return getattr(self.wrapped, attrname)
>
> I can run it this way:
>
>>>> x = wrapper([1,2,3])
>>>> x.append(4)
> Trace:  append
>>>> x.wrapped
> [1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> I am able to capture the attribute name to x (that is, append).
> However, I do not know how to capture and print all of its arguments
> (in this case number 4).
>
> How should I proceed?
>
> Thank you

You could do something like this:

class wrapper:
    def __init__(self, object):
        self.wrapped = object
    def __getattr__(self, attrname):
        print '** get attribute: ', self.wrapped, attrname
        return wrapper(getattr(self.wrapped, attrname))
    def __call__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        print '** call with args: ', self.wrapped, args, kwargs
        return wrapper(self.wrapped(*args, **kwargs))

x = wrapper([1,2,3])
x.append(4)

I haven't thought about it too much though.

-- 
Arnaud


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 12:55:38 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 09:55:38 -0800
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<mailman.330.1267292249.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmeamq$a0$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.330.1267292249.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Daniel Fetchinson  <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>I guess they also have some kind of a sandbox if they let people run
>python on their machines, I'm not sure if it's open source though.

Thing is, I'm sure that Google uses a critical backstop to any
Python-based sandbox: something like a chroot jail.  The Python sandbox
is mostly there to inform you about what you can and can't do; the real
security is provided by the OS.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 13:35:23 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:35:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py2exe - Bad File Descriptor
Message-ID: <0c04902d-03e8-4b0e-8dd3-3bbdf7ea09b6@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

I have a Python script, which is a Windows Service, that I created an
EXE of via py2exe.  As part of the program, it calls some external
binaries, one of which restarts the computer.  When I'm logged in,
this works fine.  However, if I log out, the service stops and logs
the following error in the Event Log:

<type 'exceptions.IOError'>:(9, 'Bad file descriptor')

Anyone have an idea what could be causing this?


From fabfake at fake.org  Sun Feb 28 14:10:55 2010
From: fabfake at fake.org (Fabiano)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:10:55 +0100
Subject: Updates about Tk
In-Reply-To: <d6f9d8e2-3379-4add-bffd-0f058ccd6fd8@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
	<6adc$4b895233$4275d90a$6509@FUSE.NET>
	<d6f9d8e2-3379-4add-bffd-0f058ccd6fd8@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8abf8e$0$1115$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>

rantingrick ha scritto:
> On Feb 27, 11:11 am, Kevin Walzer <k... at codebykevin.com> wrote:
> 
> (...snip...)
> 
>> Kevin Walzer
>> Code by Kevinhttp://www.codebykevin.com
> 
> Great post Kevin! The only thing i would like to add are my two
> favorite references for learning Tkinter. They are not geared around
> the new ttk stuff, but still 95% relevant to any Tkinter-ing
> 
> http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/
> http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/
> 
> 

Thanks @All you guys for the explanations and links!
Regards


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Feb 28 14:20:21 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:20:21 +0100
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <7431a354-b9cb-490b-8b8b-b8f73d9698a8@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.11.1267344325.23598.python-list@python.org>
	<7431a354-b9cb-490b-8b8b-b8f73d9698a8@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmefll$fqb$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hai Vu, 28.02.2010 17:41:
> By the way, Stefan, I am using Python 2.6. Do you know the differences
> between ElementTree and cElementTree?

Use cElementTree, it's implemented in C and a lot faster and more memory
friendly.

http://effbot.org/zone/celementtree.htm#benchmarks
http://codespeak.net/lxml/performance.html

Stefan



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 14:44:44 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 11:44:44 -0800
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4bb5$gn4$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.201.1267054217.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmeh3c$a43$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.201.1267054217.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Ryan Kelly  <ryan at rfk.id.au> wrote:
>On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 15:05 -0800, Aahz wrote:
>> In article <mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list at python.org>,
>> Ryan Kelly  <ryan at rfk.id.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>Yes.  The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
>>>application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
>>>executable file.  As long as you don't change python versions, this
>>>allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
>>>without atomic file replacement.
>>>
>>>So the frozen app does this in a background thread:
>>>
>>>   Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()
>>>
>>>And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
>>>unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory.  Et
>>>viola, your app is at the latest version.
>>
>> How does this work with a running app?  What if the app is a service?
>
>The changes will only take effect the next time the app is started -
>currently there's no support for "hot upgrading" a running app.

>From my POV, hot upgrading is less important than solid restart
capabilities, particularly for services.  Performing tasks like modifying
the DB schema is also important (not the actual capability, but hooks for
it).  E.g., the next time the app starts, it should know that it's been
upgraded.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sun Feb 28 16:15:29 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:15:29 +1300
Subject: PyQt4.7 and PyQwt5.2.0
Message-ID: <hmemdg$oo7$1@speranza.aioe.org>

I installed the latest PyQt (4.7-1), then PyQwt 5.2.0, which was built with 
PyQt4.5.4.  This line

import PyQt4.Qwt5 as Qwt

fails to load the DLL.  Could this be the result of not using PyQt4 4.5.4?


From missive at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 28 16:17:30 2010
From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 01:47:30 +0430
Subject: [ANNC] pynguin-0.1  (python-based turtle graphics application)
Message-ID: <SNT106-W10DC910A3EF3753508DAE9B13D0@phx.gbl>


pynguin is a python-based turtle graphics application.
??? It combines an editor, interactive interpreter, and
??? graphics display area.

It is meant to be an easy environment for introducing
??? some programming concepts to beginning programmers.


http://pynguin.googlecode.com/


This is the initial release, with many optimizations
??? and finer details yet to come. Please check it out
??? and let me know what you think.


pynguin is tested with Python 2.6.4 and uses PyQt (4.6)
??? for its GUI elements. pynguin is released under GPLv3.


Changes in pynguin-0.1:
??? - initial public release

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 16:22:19 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:22:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py2exe - Bad File Descriptor
References: <0c04902d-03e8-4b0e-8dd3-3bbdf7ea09b6@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.26.1267390207.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c13e8eec-0cf0-4ec5-88af-87baaed039b3@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 3:48?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:35:23 -0800 (PST), T <misceveryth... at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > I have a Python script, which is a Windows Service, that I created an
> > EXE of via py2exe. ?As part of the program, it calls some external
> > binaries, one of which restarts the computer. ?When I'm logged in,
> > this works fine. ?However, if I log out, the service stops and logs
> > the following error in the Event Log:
>
> > <type 'exceptions.IOError'>:(9, 'Bad file descriptor')
>
> > Anyone have an idea what could be causing this?
>
> ? ? ? ? Without code, one must play psychic... And I haven't dusted off the
> Tarot cards, I Ching coins, and Crystal balls is some time (No, I don't
> have a ouija board)...
>
> ? ? ? ? Could it be you have a mapped drive that gets disconnected when you
> log off?
>
> ? ? ? ? Is the service being started as part of your login?
>
> ? ? ? ? Does it attempt to write to a console?
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Sorry for the lack of code - yes, it does try to write to the
console.  From what I'm finding, this error may be due to the fact
that there is no "console" to write to when I'm logged off.  However,
I would like to be able to print to screen if I run the EXE in debug
mode (i.e. "myservice.exe debug").  Do you know of any way around
this?  Also, I need to get the output generated from an external EXE -
will subprocess.Popen cause problems if I use stdout=PIPE?  Thanks for
your help!


From m.91ahesh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 16:47:55 2010
From: m.91ahesh at gmail.com (ranga...............)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:47:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Earn Money Online without Investment
Message-ID: <76315eb5-5e23-4267-9ff2-4ffe4332671b@b5g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 17:10:02 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 14:10:02 -0800
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<iehm57-m7l1.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b889e3d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hmepjq$n0e$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b889e3d$0$27844$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano  <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:51:17 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>
>> The only possible exception to this I can think of is when there is some
>> non-obvious side-effect (i.e. language and/or hardware is
>> "misfeatured"):
>> 
>>                 mov 	A,B    ; Moving A into B also will also arm
>>                                ; the nuclear warhead if the CPU is
>>                                ; hotter than 110C
>
>I had an embedded device that did *just that*, but only on Tuesdays.

Thus explaining why some people never can get the hang of Tuesdays.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From rjngrj2010 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 17:23:41 2010
From: rjngrj2010 at gmail.com (gujax)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:23:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<038b8f03-c0bc-4ca3-b4eb-73e01ce7f69f@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bebb12ef-2d2b-4929-a872-c9ee3f5cc037@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 10:14?pm, Arnaud Delobelle <arno... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 28 Feb, 01:48, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> > years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
> > the problem. I tried all versions of python but having installation
> > problems for all. Installation does not proceed and I get a message
> > saying "dll required for installation could not be run". I do not even
> > know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
> > I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
> > error window saying - upgrade windows.
> > Is there no solution at all to installing python on WinME. I have
> > checked registry several times online and have sought professional
> > help but so far no success.
> > Thanks, I will appreciate any help
> > gujax
>
> The docs (*) say that Python 2.5 is still compatible with Windows 9X
> and ME, but that support for these platform was dropped at 2.6. ?So
> you should be able to install and run Python 2.5.
>
> (*)http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html#installing-python
>
> --
> Arnaud

Hi,
Yes indeed, Python 2.5 worked and so did numpy and scipy for this
version. Thanks to all for your inputs. There are now issues with
plotting - graph plotting using pylab does not work nor does the Tck-
Tk, but for now I am satisfied. Hopefully I will plod my way through.
I should have read the documentation properly to realize that Win ME
is not supported for later versions,
Thanks again
Gujax


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 17:40:59 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:40:59 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <hmeamq$a0$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<mailman.330.1267292249.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hmeamq$a0$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002281440n419fbcb1v2cf3922db1cef6a4@mail.gmail.com>

>>I guess they also have some kind of a sandbox if they let people run
>>python on their machines, I'm not sure if it's open source though.
>
> Thing is, I'm sure that Google uses a critical backstop to any
> Python-based sandbox: something like a chroot jail.  The Python sandbox
> is mostly there to inform you about what you can and can't do; the real
> security is provided by the OS.

I see, makes perfect sense. This then raises the question whether it's
important to have a 100% fool proof python sandbox without help from
the OS, or this goal is not only too ambitious but also not really a
useful one. One aspect might be that one might want to have a platform
independent way of sandboxing, perhaps.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From candide at free.invalid  Sun Feb 28 17:46:22 2010
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:46:22 +0100
Subject: Quoting quotes
In-Reply-To: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b8af23e$0$7066$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

OK, now I see the point. I was mistaken because I was supposing  that
every quote strictly _inside_ the string have to match another quote od
the same type.

Thanks to all for yours responses.


From debacle at debian.org  Sun Feb 28 17:52:27 2010
From: debacle at debian.org (W. Martin Borgert)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:52:27 +0100
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <7umhcaF9rkU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <20100228225227.GA3200@beron.tangosoft.com>

Gregory Ewing wrote:
> I posted a demonstration of this earlier in this thread.

As you wrote, your example does not work when using eval() like
in my original post with second and third parameter to eval():

>>> import math
>>> eval("[c for c in (0).__class__.__bases__[0].__subclasses__() if c.__name__ == 'file'][0]('/myfile', 'w')",
         { "__builtins__": None }, { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
IOError: file() constructor not accessible in restricted mode

(Same result with Python 2.4, 2.5, and 2.6.)

While I believe, that eval() is not save, I have yet to see an
example for exploiting it. Leaving out the second and third
parameter just proves, that one shouldn't omit them :~)

Thanks in advance for any black hat example!

P.S. Please Cc me, thanks.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 28 17:57:47 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 22:57:47 GMT
Subject: cpan for python?
References: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.22.1267374443.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b8af4eb$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:27:22 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> <OFF>
> Is it only me or others also mentally read C-SPAN when somebody writes
> CPAN? </OFF>

No, it's not just you. This is the first time I've realised it wasn't 
C-SPAN.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 28 17:59:48 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 22:59:48 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com> <hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.13.1267355406.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b8af564$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:05:12 +0100, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano, 28.02.2010 09:48:
>> There ought to be some kind of competition for the least efficient
>> solution to programming problems
> 
> That wouldn't be very interesting. You could just write a code generator
> that spits out tons of garbage code including a line that solves the
> problem, and then let it execute the code afterwards. That beast would
> always win.

Obfuscated code competitions could do the same: insert your simple, 
straight-forward, completely unobfuscated algorithm somewhere in the 
middle of 15 GB of garbage code. Who would even find it?

But they don't, because human judges decide the winner, not some silly 
rule of "the most lines of code wins".

In any case, I wasn't serious. It would be a bit of fun, if you like that 
sort of thing, and you might even learn a few things (I never knew that 
ints don't have an __eq__ method), but I can't see it taking off. I 
prefer to use my powers for inefficiency to be sarcastic to strangers on 
Usenet.



-- 
Steven


From sillyhat at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 28 18:15:51 2010
From: sillyhat at yahoo.com (Hal Styli)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:15:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.11.1267344325.23598.python-list@python.org>
	<7431a354-b9cb-490b-8b8b-b8f73d9698a8@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.24.1267384838.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d83aff2e-6c28-4e99-b765-8f2cdbb282ab@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 28 Feb, 19:20, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Hai Vu, 28.02.2010 17:41:
>
> > By the way, Stefan, I am using Python 2.6. Do you know the differences
> > between ElementTree and cElementTree?
>
> Use cElementTree, it's implemented in C and a lot faster and more memory
> friendly.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/celementtree.htm#benchmarkshttp://codespeak.net/lxml/performance.html
>
> Stefan

Thanks for the responses so far, most enlightening.

Stefan, I was happy to see such concise code.
Your python worked with only very minor modifications.

Hai's test xml data *without* the first and last line is close enough
to the data I am using:

<order customer="john" product="eggs" quantity="12" />
<order customer="cindy" product="bread" quantity="1" />
<order customer="larry" product="tea bags" quantity="100" />
<order customer="john" product="butter" quantity="1" />
<order product="chicken" quantity="2" customer="derek" />

... quirky.

I  get a large file given to me in this format. I believe it is
created by something like:
grep 'customer=' *.xml, where there are a large number of  xml files.

I had to edit the data to include the first and last lines, <orders>
and </orders>,
to get the python code to work. It's not an arduous task(!), but can
you recommend a way to get it to work without
manually editing the data?

One other thing, what's the Roland Mueller post above about (I'm
viewing htis in google groups)? What would the test.xsl file look
like?

Thanks again

Hal.


From candide at free.invalid  Sun Feb 28 18:23:38 2010
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:23:38 +0100
Subject: Starting Python from the terminal with no welcome message
Message-ID: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

Does exist some option I could send to the python interpreter during an
interactive session in order to avoid the printing of the  introductory
message just above the top prompt ?

In my case, the welcome message is the following :

Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 31 2008, 17:28:52)
[GCC 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.



gdb has such an option (the so-called quiet option).


Compare this :

$ gdb
GNU gdb 6.8-debian
Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
<http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.  Type "show copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "i486-linux-gnu".
(gdb)

with that

$ gdb -q
(gdb)




From blake at randomresources.com  Sun Feb 28 18:27:32 2010
From: blake at randomresources.com (Blake B)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:27:32 -0600
Subject: Multiple console windows for a single program?
Message-ID: <56b204861002281527n738e7032p7024db6768b1a40d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm wanting to write a program with multiple objects, each in a thread. Both
will be doing output (with the print statement) almost constantly, so I'd
like to be able to separate their outputs. What I want to do is have a
separate window for each. Is my only option to make my own "console" windows
using TK or something?

Thanks in advance,
Blake B
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From agoretoy at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 18:42:51 2010
From: agoretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:42:51 -0600
Subject: Starting Python from the terminal with no welcome message
In-Reply-To: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002281542h4f2b38e9h2123a2eabd5ad743@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:23 PM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does exist some option I could send to the python interpreter during an
> interactive session in order to avoid the printing of the  introductory
> message just above the top prompt ?
>
> In my case, the welcome message is the following :
>
> Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 31 2008, 17:28:52)
> [GCC 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
>
>
> gdb has such an option (the so-called quiet option).
>
>
> Compare this :
>
> $ gdb
> GNU gdb 6.8-debian
> Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
> <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
> This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
> There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.  Type "show copying"
> and "show warranty" for details.
> This GDB was configured as "i486-linux-gnu".
> (gdb)
>
> with that
>
> $ gdb -q
> (gdb)
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

good idea, could be very useful. I don't think I recall seeing that option
in python.
+1

-Alex Goretoy
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From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 19:30:12 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:30:12 +0100
Subject: Sample code usable Tkinter listbox
Message-ID: <hmf1qo$v9v$1@news.eternal-september.org>

In case Someone Else(TM) may need this.

This code is just how it currently looks, what I needed for my code, so it's not 
a full-fledged or even tested class.

But it works.


<code language="Py3">
import tkinter as t
import tkinter.simpledialog
import tkinter.messagebox
t.askstring     = tkinter.simpledialog.askstring
t.warningbox    = tkinter.messagebox.showwarning

class UsableListbox( t.Frame ):
     def __init__( self, parent_widget ):
         t.Frame.__init__( self, parent_widget )
         scrollbar = t.Scrollbar( self, orient = "vertical" )
         self.lb = t.Listbox( self, yscrollcommand = scrollbar.set )
         scrollbar.config( command = self.lb.yview )
         scrollbar.pack( side = "right", fill = "y" )
         self.lb.pack( side = "left", fill = "both", expand = 1 )

     def current_index( self ):
         indices = self.lb.curselection()
         assert( len( indices ) <= 1 )       # TODO: about multi-selection.
         return None if len( indices ) == 0 else int( indices[0] )

     def current( self ):
         #return self.lb.get( "active" )     # Incorrect with mousing
         i = self.current_index()
         return "" if i is None else self.lb.get( i )

     def append( self, item ):
         return self.lb.insert( "end", item )

     def add_selection_event_handler( self, handler ):
         "An event handler takes one argument, a Tkinter Event"
         return self.lb.bind( "<<ListboxSelect>>", handler )
</code>


Cheers,

- Alf


From agoretoy at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 19:36:57 2010
From: agoretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:36:57 -0600
Subject: Multiple console windows for a single program?
In-Reply-To: <56b204861002281527n738e7032p7024db6768b1a40d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56b204861002281527n738e7032p7024db6768b1a40d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002281636h60b7505dmc57a9ee27ac1759e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Blake B <blake at randomresources.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm wanting to write a program with multiple objects, each in a thread.
> Both will be doing output (with the print statement) almost constantly, so
> I'd like to be able to separate their outputs. What I want to do is have a
> separate window for each. Is my only option to make my own "console" windows
> using TK or something?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Blake B
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> you can also use python-vte

-Alex Goretoy
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb 28 20:21:29 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:21:29 -0600
Subject: Starting Python from the terminal with no welcome message
In-Reply-To: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B8B1699.6090307@tim.thechases.com>

candide wrote:
> Does exist some option I could send to the python interpreter during an
> interactive session in order to avoid the printing of the  introductory
> message just above the top prompt ?
> 
> In my case, the welcome message is the following :
> 
> Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 31 2008, 17:28:52)
> [GCC 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

I asked a similar question a while back:

http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/python-list at python.org/4611139.html

(strangely, I couldn't find that in the mail.python.org archives 
via google)

If you don't want to monkey with the prompts (like I did in that 
thread), you can just use

   bash$ python -ic ""

to get a python shell without the banner.

That said, it _would_ be a nice addition to have a "-q"uiet 
startup option that behaves like many other apps do.  But with it 
being just a few extra characters on the command-line, I don't 
expect it will happen.

-tkc




From pmaupin at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 21:09:30 2010
From: pmaupin at gmail.com (Patrick Maupin)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:09:30 -0600
Subject: Draft PEP on RSON configuration file format
Message-ID: <d09829f51002281809w2d2e556ct841f5adaaf78a723@mail.gmail.com>

All:

Finding .ini configuration files too limiting, JSON and XML to hard to
manually edit, and YAML too complex to parse quickly, I have started
work on a new configuration file parser.

I call the new format RSON (for "Readable Serial Object Notation"),
and it is designed to be a superset of JSON.

I would love for it to be considered valuable enough to be a part of
the standard library, but even if that does not come to pass, I would
be very interested in feedback to help me polish the specification,
and then possibly help for implementation and testing.

The documentation is in rst PEP form, at:

http://rson.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/draftpep.txt

Thanks and best regards,
Pat


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Feb 28 21:55:42 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:55:42 -0800
Subject: Draft PEP on RSON configuration file format
References: <mailman.34.1267409372.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd3zobvip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Patrick Maupin <pmaupin at gmail.com> writes:
> I have started work on a new configuration file parser....
> The documentation is in rst PEP form, at:...

Noooooooo.... not another... there are too many already. :-(

-1


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 22:10:27 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:10:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Sample code usable Tkinter listbox
References: <hmf1qo$v9v$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <5af8af6d-ecfc-4e4e-bba6-3622bbe874eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 6:30?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> In case Someone Else(TM) may need this.
>
> This code is just how it currently looks, what I needed for my code, so it's not
> a full-fledged or even tested class.

Thanks for sharing Alf,
Thats works fine "as-is" but what about inheriting from "tk.Listbox"
directly and having the "container frame" as an attribute? I prefer
this API because I hate to write the laborious
"megawidget.mainwidget.methodX()" when i could instead write
"megawidget.methodX()". What is your opinion on this?


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 28 22:18:47 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Mar 2010 03:18:47 GMT
Subject: Draft PEP on RSON configuration file format
References: <mailman.34.1267409372.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.03.01.03.18.47@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:09:30 -0600, Patrick Maupin wrote:

> All:
> 
> Finding .ini configuration files too limiting, JSON and XML to hard to
> manually edit, and YAML too complex to parse quickly, I have started
> work on a new configuration file parser.
> 
> I call the new format RSON (for "Readable Serial Object Notation"), and
> it is designed to be a superset of JSON.

Wait a minute... if JSON is too hard to edit, and RSON is a *superset* of 
JSON, that means by definition every JSON file is also a valid RSON file. 
Since JSON is too hard to manually edit, so is RSON.


> I would love for it to be considered valuable enough to be a part of the
> standard library, 

Come back when you actually have MANY users other than yourself using 
this is real-world projects. Until then, it is too early to even consider 
adding it the std library. Python comes with batteries included, but not 
experimental batteries that aren't even built yet, let alone proven that 
they work.


-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 22:57:32 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:57:32 +0100
Subject: Sample code usable Tkinter listbox
In-Reply-To: <5af8af6d-ecfc-4e4e-bba6-3622bbe874eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hmf1qo$v9v$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<5af8af6d-ecfc-4e4e-bba6-3622bbe874eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmfdvg$vu8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* rantingrick:
> On Feb 28, 6:30 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> In case Someone Else(TM) may need this.
>>
>> This code is just how it currently looks, what I needed for my code, so it's not
>> a full-fledged or even tested class.
> 
> Thanks for sharing Alf,
> Thats works fine "as-is" but what about inheriting from "tk.Listbox"
> directly and having the "container frame" as an attribute? I prefer
> this API because I hate to write the laborious
> "megawidget.mainwidget.methodX()" when i could instead write
> "megawidget.methodX()". What is your opinion on this?

Well the frame contains a listbox and scrollbar. And with the frame as attribute 
the object that you have a direct reference to would then not be the complete 
thing on screen, with respect to sizing and placement and such. I generally 
don't like widgets that present stuff outside their bounding box. I guess that 
could be fixed up somehow by overriding this and that, but I find it simpler to 
just make the enclosing widget the widget that one has a reference to. And in a 
way it's also good that it's more laborious to directly access the tkinter 
listbox stuff, because what I discovered so far is that much of it requires work 
arounds and fixups, i.e. that it should be wrapped in higher level methods.

I had to add some more such functionality after I posted that code.

So, current (this is untested except that it works for what I'm using it for!):


<code language="Py3">
class UsableListbox( t.Frame ):
     def __init__( self, parent_widget ):
         t.Frame.__init__( self, parent_widget )
         scrollbar = t.Scrollbar( self, orient = "vertical" )
         self.lb = t.Listbox( self, exportselection = 0, yscrollcommand = 
scrollbar.set )
         scrollbar.config( command = self.lb.yview )
         scrollbar.pack( side = "right", fill = "y" )
         self.lb.pack( side = "left", fill = "both", expand = 1 )

     def current_index( self ):
         indices = self.lb.curselection()
         assert( len( indices ) <= 1 )       # TODO: about multi-selection.
         return None if len( indices ) == 0 else int( indices[0] )

     def current( self ):
         #return self.lb.get( "active" )     # Incorrect with mousing
         i = self.current_index()
         return "" if i is None else self.lb.get( i )

     def item_count( self ):
         return self.lb.size()

     def clear( self ):
         self.lb.delete( 0, "end" )

     def append( self, item ):
         return self.lb.insert( "end", item )

     def select_item( self, i ):
         assert( 0 <= i < self.item_count() )
         self.lb.selection_set( i )

     def add_selection_event_handler( self, handler ):
         "An event handler takes one argument, a Tkinter Event"
         return self.lb.bind( "<<ListboxSelect>>", handler )
</code>


Cheers,

- Alf


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:16:43 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eabd60b1-269e-42e7-b8ee-0447cd34e6b5@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

keakon <kea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> def h2(x=[]):
> ? y = x
> ? y.append(1)
> ? return y + []

> h2() is about 42 times slower than h2([]), but h() is a litter faster
> than h([]).

Are you aware that 'y = x' _doesn't_ make a copy of [], that it
actually points to the same list as x?

My guess is that the slowdown you're seeing is due to the increasing
size of x _per timing iteration_. h2([]) will pass a new list each
time, while h2() will append to the same list _every_ time. The
difference between h & h2 is due to the concatenation of a new list to
the built one: the longer the default list grows, the longer this will
take, as extending a list takes O(k) time, with k being the number of
elements.


From keakon at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:20:28 2010
From: keakon at gmail.com (keakon)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:20:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6eb8894f-ba52-4b47-8986-9fb7f3981da4@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Even this style is 41 times faster than h2():

def i2(x=[]):
  y = x
  if not y: # add this line
    y = []  # add this line
  y.append(1)
  return y + []

print Timer('i2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2, i2').timeit
(TIMES)

Time: 0.00742356919664


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:20:53 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: eabd60b1-269e-42e7-b8ee-0447cd34e6b5@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com
Message-ID: <9d2678d9-a232-4128-90f6-9ffae286ed23@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> keakon <kea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > def h2(x=[]):
> > ? y = x
> > ? y.append(1)
> > ? return y + []
>
> Are you aware that 'y = x' _doesn't_ make a copy of [], that it
> actually points to the same list as x?

Sorry, I meant to suggest trying the following instead:

def h2(x=None):
  if x is None: x = []
  x.append(1)
  return x + []

It's a common idiom to use None as a sentinel for this situation, esp.
where you _don't_ want a default mutable object to be reused.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 00:21:18 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:21:18 -0800
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
In-Reply-To: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1001312121y68cd9c5dk36e3c6c0d4f4d74e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:58 PM, keakon <keakon at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've found strange performance issue when using default value, the
> test code is list below:
>
> from timeit import Timer
>
> def f(x):
> ?y = x
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y
>
> def g(x=[]):
> ?y = []
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y
>
> def h(x=[]):
> ?y = x
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y
>
> def f2(x):
> ?y = x
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y + []
>
> def g2(x=[]):
> ?y = []
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y + []
>
> def h2(x=[]):
> ?y = x
> ?y.append(1)
> ?return y + []
>
> TIMES = 10000
> print Timer('f([])','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('g()','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('h([])','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('h()','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('f2([])','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('g2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('h2([])','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
> print Timer('h2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
>
>
> I tested it with Python 2.5.4, 2.6.4 and 3.1.1 on Windows XP, and get
> almost the same result:
> 0.00449247041174
> 0.00439608944712
> 0.00455867994396
> 0.00327471787615
> 0.00791581052899
> 0.00684919452053
> 0.00734311204357
> 0.30974942346
>
> h2() is about 42 times slower than h2([]), but h() is a litter faster
> than h([]).
>
> If change TIMES to 20000, other results are 2 times than before, but h2
> () is 4 times(about 1.2 sec) than before.
>
> Is there any tricks in it?

Are you aware of the following pitfall?:

>>> def foo(a=[]):
...     a.append(7)
...     return a
>>>
>>> print foo()
[7]
>>> print foo()
[7, 7]
>>> print foo()
[7, 7, 7]

i.e. the default argument is only evaluated once (when the function is
defined) and is then reused every call when the caller doesn't provide
a value.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From keakon at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:32:06 2010
From: keakon at gmail.com (keakon)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:32:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: eabd60b1-269e-42e7-b8ee-0447cd34e6b5@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com 
	<9d2678d9-a232-4128-90f6-9ffae286ed23@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e61ec1f9-8ecb-45c3-8a9c-c99ddc2ffc9e@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On 2?1?, ??1?20?, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > keakon <kea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > def h2(x=[]):
> > >   y = x
> > >   y.append(1)
> > >   return y + []
>
> > Are you aware that 'y = x' _doesn't_ make a copy of [], that it
> > actually points to the same list as x?
>
> Sorry, I meant to suggest trying the following instead:
>
> def h2(x=None):
>   if x is None: x = []
>   x.append(1)
>   return x + []
>
> It's a common idiom to use None as a sentinel for this situation, esp.
> where you _don't_ want a default mutable object to be reused.

Thank you, I got it.

The default value is mutable, and can be reused by all each call.
So each call it will append 1 to the default value, that's very
different than C++.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 00:58:06 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:58:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: eabd60b1-269e-42e7-b8ee-0447cd34e6b5@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com 
	<9d2678d9-a232-4128-90f6-9ffae286ed23@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<e61ec1f9-8ecb-45c3-8a9c-c99ddc2ffc9e@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <804a8f7e-0188-43f4-add9-52f841ceaf1a@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

keakon <kea... at gmail.com> wrote:
> The default value is mutable, and can be reused by all each call.
> So each call it will append 1 to the default value, that's very
> different than C++.

Being different from C++ is one of the many reasons some of us choose
Python ;)

This tends to bite most newcomers, so it's mentioned in the FAQ:
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general/#id52


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 01:05:17 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 06:05:17 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1706.1264996133.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1vh5shyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:22:36 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>> Three of you gave essentially identical answers, but I still do not see
>> how given something like
>>
>> def f(): return 1
>>
>> I differentiate between 'function object at address xxx' and 'int 1'
>> objects.
> 
> In the languages they are talking about, there is no such thing as a
> function with no args.  A function is closer to a mathematical function,
> i.e. a mapping from one type to another, so every function has an arg.

Suppose I have a function that queries a website http://guessmyname.com 
for a list of popular names and returns the most popular name on the 
list. Obviously this name will change from time to time, so I can't just 
get it once and treat the result as a constant. 

In a non-functional language, I'd write it something like this:


def get_popular_name():
    URL = 'http://guessmyname.com'
    data = fetch(URL)
    names = parse(data)
    name = choose(names, 1)
    return name

name = get_popular_name()  # call the function with no argument
f = decorate(get_popular_name)  # treat the function as a 1st class object


How would Haskell coders write it? Something like this?


def get_popular_name(url):
    data = fetch url
    names = parse data
    name = choose name 1
    return name

name = get_popular_name 'http://guessmyname.com'  # call the function
f = decorate get_popular_name  # treat the function as a 1st class object


But now you're needlessly having the caller, rather than the function, 
remember an implementation detail of the get_popular_name function. Since 
the argument couldn't be anything different, I'd immediately think of 
applying partial:

get_popular_name = partial get_popular_name 'http://guessmyname.com'

but now how do I call the new function?

Is this where you say "Monads" and everyone's eyes glaze over?




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 01:15:35 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 06:15:35 GMT
Subject: A performance issue when using default value
References: <4754e6b7-2d79-4995-8f3f-193b646b524e@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.06.15.34@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:58:50 -0800, keakon wrote:

> I've found strange performance issue when using default value, the test
> code is list below:
> 
> from timeit import Timer
> 
> def f(x):
>   y = x
>   y.append(1)
>   return y
> 
> def g(x=[]):
>   y = []
>   y.append(1)
>   return y
> 
> def h(x=[]):
>   y = x
>   y.append(1)
>   return y
> 
> def f2(x):
>   y = x
>   y.append(1)
>   return y + []
> 
> def g2(x=[]):
>   y = []
>   y.append(1)
>   return y + []
> 
> def h2(x=[]):
>   y = x
>   y.append(1)
>   return y + []
> 
> TIMES = 10000
> print Timer('f([])','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('g()','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('h([])','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('h()','from __main__ import f, g, h').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('f2([])','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('g2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('h2([])','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES) print
> Timer('h2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
> 
> 
> I tested it with Python 2.5.4, 2.6.4 and 3.1.1 on Windows XP, and get
> almost the same result:
> 0.00449247041174
> 0.00439608944712
> 0.00455867994396
> 0.00327471787615
> 0.00791581052899
> 0.00684919452053
> 0.00734311204357
> 0.30974942346


You've only run those results once, haven't you?

That is not trustworthy. In a multi-tasking operating system, including 
Windows, some other process might have run for some milliseconds, 
throwing the results off.

More importantly, if you had run it multiple times, you'd see this:


>>> for i in range(7):
...     Timer('h2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2').timeit(TIMES)
...
0.0190200805664
0.315117120743
0.941411972046
1.56618499756
2.18553495407
2.79832291603
3.44865894318


h2 (and probably h, but I haven't tested it) get slower and slower and 
slower every time you run it.

Why? I'm pretty sure this is in the FAQs, but default values are created 
once, not every time the function is called. So you create a function 
with the default value of []. Call the function, and that list gets 1 
appended to it, so the default value is now [1]. Call the function again, 
and it becomes [1, 1]. And so on, and so on, and so on.

The other functions create a new empty list each time the function is 
called, so you're comparing the time it takes to grow an ever-bigger list 
with the time it takes to create a tiny list.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 01:17:21 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 06:17:21 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>
	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<874om1ydxf.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.06.17.20@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:53:16 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> You don't have to buy my argument, I am not selling it.

It's a figure of speech. You are making an argument others have made 
before, and I don't accept the validity of the argument.


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb  1 01:22:14 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:22:14 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1706.1264996133.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1vh5shyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7x4om18oh5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
> How would Haskell coders write it? Something like this?
>
> def get_popular_name(url):
>     data = fetch url
>     names = parse data
>     name = choose name 1
>     return name

The syntax and types would be different, but ok, something like that.

> name = get_popular_name 'http://guessmyname.com'  # call the function
> f = decorate get_popular_name  # treat the function as a 1st class object

You wouldn't need "decorate".  You'd just say

   f = get_popular_name "http://guessmyname.com"

f is now an "I/O action" which when executed queries the guessmyname site.

> but now how do I call the new function?
> Is this where you say "Monads" and everyone's eyes glaze over?

You'd say something like

   most_popular_name <- f

to invoke the action.  Yes, explaining the difference between
"<-" and "=" involves monads.

You might like the Haskell tutorial http://learnyouahaskell.com .


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 01:27:29 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 06:27:29 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>
	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:30:15 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

>>>>> While braces might be considered redundant they are not when for one
>>>>> reason or another formatting is lost or done incorrectly.
>>>>
>>>> I've heard this argument before, and I don't buy it. Why should we
>>>> expect the editor to correct malformed code?
>>> 
>>> Or a prettyfier. It doesn't matter. The point is that with braces
>>> there *is* redundancy that be used to fix the code.
>>
>> Prettyfiers are significant in languages that allow braces (or
>> begin/end tokens) and indentation to go out of sync. Since that can't
>> happen with Python,
> 
> Yes it can. I *have* seen Python with broken indentation on web pages,
> and good luck sorting it out. Blaming it on "broken tools" is just
> another straw man. 

You're using that term wrong. It looks to me that you don't actually know 
what a straw man argument is. A straw man argument is when somebody 
responds to a deliberately weakened or invalid argument as if it had been 
made by their opponent. You raised the issue that the redundancy which 
prettyfiers exploit are a good reason for preferring braces, so it's not 
a straw man argument.

It's not a straw man to say that you don't need a code prettyfier if 
indentation is significant when you raised the issue of prettyfiers in 
the first place.

I certainly accept that braces + indentation do provide redundancy, and 
if the norm was noisy channels, that redundancy would be valuable. But 
that's not the norm. Most channels don't delete leading whitespace, and 
those noisy channels we do deal with (like web forms) tend to introduce 
far more noise than merely deleting leading whitespace, e.g. word-
wrapping long lines.

The argument that "web pages break indentation, therefore braces are 
better" is a real argument that some people make, but it is very weak. 
Suppose there was a web page that arbitrarily deleted braces out of some 
misplaced sense of security. Would anyone argue that this proves that 
indentation was better and braces were bad? No, of course not -- they 
would say "That website is broken".




> It happens, and if you're learning Python and
> interested in that code you have a problem.

Yes you do.

If you're trying to learn carpentry, and somebody gives you a blunt saw 
that causes the wood to break rather than cut cleanly, you have a 
problem. If you're learning to cook, and they give you a put with a hole 
in it and tell you to make soup in it, you have a problem.

Broken tools lead to problems.


> Snipped the rest, because you start to sound like a zealot. I should've
> know better.

Yeah, whatever.



-- 
Steven


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 01:43:56 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:43:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>
	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com> 
	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <a2803a2d-4b11-4d8c-bf81-4929830f7fdf@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> You're using that term wrong. It looks to me that you don't actually know
> what a straw man argument is. A straw man argument is when somebody
> responds to a deliberately weakened or invalid argument as if it had been
> made by their opponent.

Jeez, Steve, you're beginning to sound like some kind of fallacy
zealot... ;)



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 01:49:13 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:49:13 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1706.1264996133.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1vh5shyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1001312249v237d4280xf297f4afac73f028@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steven at remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:22:36 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>>> Three of you gave essentially identical answers, but I still do not see
>>> how given something like
>>>
>>> def f(): return 1
>>>
>>> I differentiate between 'function object at address xxx' and 'int 1'
>>> objects.
>>
>> In the languages they are talking about, there is no such thing as a
>> function with no args. ?A function is closer to a mathematical function,
>> i.e. a mapping from one type to another, so every function has an arg.
>
> Suppose I have a function that queries a website http://guessmyname.com
> for a list of popular names and returns the most popular name on the
> list. Obviously this name will change from time to time, so I can't just
> get it once and treat the result as a constant.
>
> In a non-functional language, I'd write it something like this:
>
>
> def get_popular_name():
> ? ?URL = 'http://guessmyname.com'
> ? ?data = fetch(URL)
> ? ?names = parse(data)
> ? ?name = choose(names, 1)
> ? ?return name
>
> name = get_popular_name() ?# call the function with no argument
> f = decorate(get_popular_name) ?# treat the function as a 1st class object
>
>
> How would Haskell coders write it?
<snip>
> Is this where you say "Monads" and everyone's eyes glaze over?

Yeah, basically. Your function has side-effects (i.e. it does I/O over
the network), and thus some extra hoops need to be jumped through to
reconcile that with the functional purity of the language. Assuming my
understanding of monads is somewhat correct:

get_popular_name would have the type: IO () -> IO String
i.e. it takes no "real" parameters but does I/O, and returns a String.
"IO" is a generic type, thus IO () is like IO<void>, and IO String is
IO<String> (using Java/C#-like generics syntax).
Wrapping things in IOs (the "IO monad") is how the type system models
that I/O side effects are involved.
So, get_popular_name would end up taking one argument, IO (). Now
where does the caller get an IO () ? Well, the toplevel (i.e. the main
function) is allowed to do IO (otherwise, we couldn't write very
interesting programs), and thus is provided with an IO by the
environment (through some sort of magic). Using this, it passes an IO
() to get_popular_name (or it gets passed down the call stack and
eventually winds up at get_popular_name) and we get back an IO String.
And through some further monad trickery, we make sure that lazy
evaluation is effectively bypassed for the I/O and we are able to rip
the String out of its IO container and pass it to pure functions. And
using the dark magic of "do-notation", we write the parts involving IO
in pseudo-imperative style (the "<-" operator Paul mentioned is part
of that). And there you have it (I think/hope).

Supposedly, in practice, you don't need to know the monad guts of how
the I/O system works in order to use it, you just need to be able to
write do-notation.

Cheers,
Chris
--
I really should read the monad chapters of my copy of "Real World Haskell".
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 02:12:51 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 07:12:51 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>
	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a2803a2d-4b11-4d8c-bf81-4929830f7fdf@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.01.07.12.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:43:56 -0800, alex23 wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> You're using that term wrong. It looks to me that you don't actually
>> know what a straw man argument is. A straw man argument is when
>> somebody responds to a deliberately weakened or invalid argument as if
>> it had been made by their opponent.
> 
> Jeez, Steve, you're beginning to sound like some kind of fallacy
> zealot... ;)

Death to all those who confuse agumentum ad populum with argumentum ad 
verecundiam!!!


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb  1 02:24:06 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:24:06 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1706.1264996133.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1vh5shyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.06.05.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1710.1265006958.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xk4uxju5l.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
> get_popular_name would have the type: IO () -> IO String

I don't know if it makes the explanation any clearer, but I think that
isn't quite right.  The Python version would have type 
String -> IO String.  The parameterless Haskell version would just be an
I/O action, with type IO String.  IO () is not really involved.


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  1 03:24:42 2010
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 00:24:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: expy 0.5.1 released
Message-ID: <511580.45863.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi there,

EXPY 0.5.1 released, the exception raising feature is enhanced so that you can raise any builtin exceptions. Custom exceptions will be supported soon.

For more information, see http://expy.sourceforge.net/

EXPY is an expressway to extend Python!

Regards,

Yingjie 


      


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  1 03:34:28 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:34:28 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes?
In-Reply-To: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.

What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.

Stefan


From ps.ohms at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 03:43:29 2010
From: ps.ohms at gmail.com (PS.OHM)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 00:43:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: get error install MySQLdb on Mac OS X
References: <30c0946e-fa6a-4a54-930c-1962d167fffe@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<ee523956-2e53-4efb-8c9e-1cd7ad82993b@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2be17362-8a54-4a04-9671-0a0ff7266e33@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 29, 5:02?am, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 28, 12:53?pm, "PS.OHM" <ps.o... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Guys
>
> > I havegetsomeerrorwhen i install MySQLdb on Mac OS X
>
> > after i key command $python setup.py build
>
> > rusult is
> > :
> > :
> >error: command 'gcc-4.0' failed with exit status 1
>
> > How to config this poblem?
>
> Please show a little bit more of theerror



iME-macbook-pro:MySQL-python-1.2.3c1 iME$ python setup.py build
running build
running build_py
copying MySQLdb/release.py -> build/lib.macosx-10.3-fat-2.6/MySQLdb
running build_ext
building '_mysql' extension
gcc-4.0 -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk
-fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -
Dversion_info=(1,2,3,'gamma',1) -D__version__=1.2.3c1 -I/Applications/
MAMP/Library/include/mysql -I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/
Versions/2.6/include/python2.6 -c _mysql.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.3-
fat-2.6/_mysql.o -fno-omit-frame-pointer -D_P1003_1B_VISIBLE -
DSIGNAL_WITH_VIO_CLOSE -DSIGNALS_DONT_BREAK_READ -
DIGNORE_SIGHUP_SIGQUIT -DDONT_DECLARE_CXA_PURE_VIRTUAL
_mysql.c:36:23: error: my_config.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:38:19: error: mysql.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:39:26: error: mysqld_error.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:40:20: error: errmsg.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:76: error: syntax error before ?MYSQL?
_mysql.c:76: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:79: error: syntax error before ?}? token
_mysql.c:79: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
_mysql.c:90: error: syntax error before ?MYSQL_RES?
_mysql.c:90: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:94: error: syntax error before ?}? token
_mysql.c:94: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
_mysql.c:106: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_Exception?:
_mysql.c:120: error: ?c? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:120: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
_mysql.c:120: error: for each function it appears in.)
_mysql.c:123: error: ?CR_MAX_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:131: error: ?CR_COMMANDS_OUT_OF_SYNC? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:132: error: ?ER_DB_CREATE_EXISTS? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:133: error: ?ER_SYNTAX_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:134: error: ?ER_PARSE_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:135: error: ?ER_NO_SUCH_TABLE? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:136: error: ?ER_WRONG_DB_NAME? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:137: error: ?ER_WRONG_TABLE_NAME? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:138: error: ?ER_FIELD_SPECIFIED_TWICE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:139: error: ?ER_INVALID_GROUP_FUNC_USE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:140: error: ?ER_UNSUPPORTED_EXTENSION? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:141: error: ?ER_TABLE_MUST_HAVE_COLUMNS? undeclared (first
use in this function)
_mysql.c:170: error: ?ER_DUP_ENTRY? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:213: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:358: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_Initialize?:
_mysql.c:363: error: ?MYSQL_RES? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:363: error: ?result? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:364: error: ?conn? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:368: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:368: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:370: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:370: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:375: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:445: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_traverse?:
_mysql.c:450: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:451: error: ?arg? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:460: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_clear?:
_mysql.c:462: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:471: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_Initialize?:
_mysql.c:475: error: ?MYSQL? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:475: error: ?conn? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:500: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:503: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:503: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:550: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_CONNECT_TIMEOUT? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:554: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_COMPRESS? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:555: error: ?CLIENT_COMPRESS? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:558: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_NAMED_PIPE? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:560: error: ?MYSQL_INIT_COMMAND? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:562: error: ?MYSQL_READ_DEFAULT_FILE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:564: error: ?MYSQL_READ_DEFAULT_GROUP? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:567: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_LOCAL_INFILE? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_connect?:
_mysql.c:654: error: ?c? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:656: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:667: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_traverse?:
_mysql.c:671: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:672: error: ?arg? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:678: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_clear?:
_mysql.c:680: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:690: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_close?:
_mysql.c:693: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:696: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:718: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_affected_rows?:
_mysql.c:721: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:722: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:752: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_dump_debug_info?:
_mysql.c:756: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:757: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:771: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_autocommit?:
_mysql.c:775: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:783: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:797: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_commit?:
_mysql.c:801: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:806: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:819: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_rollback?:
_mysql.c:823: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:828: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:851: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_next_result?:
_mysql.c:855: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:863: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:936: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_errno?:
_mysql.c:939: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:940: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:952: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_error?:
_mysql.c:955: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:956: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:957: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:970: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_escape_string?:
_mysql.c:976: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1005: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_string_literal?:
_mysql.c:1011: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_escape?:
_mysql.c:1088: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:36:23: error: my_config.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:38:19: _mysql.c:1164: error: syntax error before ?*? token
error: mysql.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_describe?:
_mysql.c:1168: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1168: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:39:26: error: _mysql.c:1170: error: ?args? undeclared (first
use in this function)
mysqld_error.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:1171: error: syntax error before ?)? token_mysql.c:40:20:
 error: _mysql.c:1171: error: syntax error before ?)? token
errmsg.h: No such file or directory
_mysql.c:1172: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:76: error: syntax error before ?MYSQL?
_mysql.c:76: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:79: error: syntax error before ?}? token
_mysql.c:79: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c:90: error: syntax error before
?MYSQL_RES?
_mysql.c:90: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
_mysql.c:94: error: syntax error before ?}? token
_mysql.c:1200: error: syntax error before ?*? token

_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_field_flags?:_mysql.c:94:
warning: data definition has no type or storage class

_mysql.c:1204: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1204: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1206: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:106: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1207: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1207: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1208: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_Exception?:
_mysql.c:120: error: ?c? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:120: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
_mysql.c:120: error: for each function it appears in.)
_mysql.c:123: error: ?CR_MAX_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:131: error: ?CR_COMMANDS_OUT_OF_SYNC? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:132: error: ?ER_DB_CREATE_EXISTS? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:133: error: ?ER_SYNTAX_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:134: error: ?ER_PARSE_ERROR? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:135: error: ?ER_NO_SUCH_TABLE? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:136: error: ?ER_WRONG_DB_NAME? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:137: error: ?ER_WRONG_TABLE_NAME? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:138: error: ?ER_FIELD_SPECIFIED_TWICE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:139: error: ?ER_INVALID_GROUP_FUNC_USE? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:140: error: ?ER_UNSUPPORTED_EXTENSION? undeclared (first use
in this function)
_mysql.c:141: error: ?ER_TABLE_MUST_HAVE_COLUMNS? undeclared (first
use in this function)
_mysql.c:170: error: ?ER_DUP_ENTRY? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:213: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c:1249: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_tuple?:
_mysql.c:1256: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1258: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1262: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:358: error: syntax error before ?*? token

_mysql.c:1274: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_dict?:
_mysql.c:1280: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1280: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_Initialize?:
_mysql.c:363: error: ?MYSQL_RES? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:363: error: ?result? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:364: error: ?conn? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:368: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:368: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:370: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:370: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:375: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c:1282: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1284: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1289: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:445: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_traverse?:
_mysql.c:450: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:451: error: ?arg? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c:460: error: syntax error before ?*?
token

_mysql.c:1313: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_clear?:
_mysql.c:462: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_dict_old?:
_mysql.c:1319: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1319: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1321: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1323: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:471: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1328: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1350: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1354: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql__fetch_row?:
_mysql.c:1361: error: ?MYSQL_ROW? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1361: error: syntax error before ?row?
_mysql.c:1363: error: ?skiprows? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1363: error: ?maxrows? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1365: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1366: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1372: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1373: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_Initialize?:
_mysql.c:1377: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:475: error: ?MYSQL? undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c:475: error: ?conn? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1380: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:500: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:

_mysql.c:1400: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:503: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:503: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_fetch_row?:
_mysql.c:1404: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:550: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_CONNECT_TIMEOUT? undeclared (first use
in this function)_mysql.c:1416: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in
this function)

_mysql.c:1416: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:554: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_COMPRESS? undeclared (first use in
this function)

_mysql.c:555: error: ?CLIENT_COMPRESS? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:558: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_NAMED_PIPE? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:560: error: ?MYSQL_INIT_COMMAND? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:562: error: ?MYSQL_READ_DEFAULT_FILE? undeclared (first use
in this function)_mysql.c:1419: error: syntax error before ?)? token

_mysql.c:1419: error: syntax error before ?)? token_mysql.c:564:
error: ?MYSQL_READ_DEFAULT_GROUP? undeclared (first use in this
function)

_mysql.c:567: error: ?MYSQL_OPT_LOCAL_INFILE? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_connect?:
_mysql.c:654: error: ?c? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:656: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1427: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:667: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_traverse?:
_mysql.c:671: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:672: error: ?arg? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:678: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_clear?:
_mysql.c:680: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1507: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:690: error: syntax error before ?*? token_mysql.c: In
function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_character_set_name?:

_mysql.c:1511: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1512: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_close?:
_mysql.c:693: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c:696: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_get_client_info?:
_mysql.c:1603: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:718: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_affected_rows?:
_mysql.c:721: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1613: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_host_info?:

_mysql.c:1616: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1617: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1618: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast_mysql.c:722: error: ?self?
undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1628: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_proto_info?:
_mysql.c:1631: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1632: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1643: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_server_info?:
_mysql.c:1646: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1647: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1648: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1659: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_info?:
_mysql.c:1663: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1664: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1665: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:752: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_dump_debug_info?:
_mysql.c:756: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:757: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:

_mysql.c:1694: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_insert_id?:
_mysql.c:1697: error: ?my_ulonglong? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1697: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:1698: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c:1699: error: ?self? undeclared (first
use in this function)

_mysql.c:771: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_autocommit?:
_mysql.c:775: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1701: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)

_mysql.c:783: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1712: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_kill?:

_mysql.c:1717: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c:1718: error: ?self? undeclared (first
use in this function)

_mysql.c:797: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_commit?:
_mysql.c:801: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:806: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1735: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_field_count?:
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:819: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_rollback?:
_mysql.c:823: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:828: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:851: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_next_result?:
_mysql.c:855: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:863: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:936: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_errno?:
_mysql.c:939: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:940: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:952: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_error?:
_mysql.c:955: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:956: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:957: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:970: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_escape_string?:
_mysql.c:976: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1005: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_string_literal?:
_mysql.c:1011: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_escape?:
_mysql.c:1088: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1164: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_describe?:
_mysql.c:1168: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1168: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1170: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1171: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1171: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1172: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1200: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_field_flags?:
_mysql.c:1204: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1204: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1206: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1207: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1207: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1208: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1249: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_tuple?:
_mysql.c:1256: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1258: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1262: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1274: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_dict?:
_mysql.c:1280: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1280: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1282: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1284: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1289: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1313: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_row_to_dict_old?:
_mysql.c:1319: error: ?MYSQL_FIELD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1319: error: ?fields? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1321: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1323: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c:1328: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1738: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1350: error: syntax error before ?*? token

_mysql.c:1354: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1739: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql__fetch_row?:
_mysql.c:1361: error: ?MYSQL_ROW? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1361: error: syntax error before ?row?
_mysql.c:1363: error: ?skiprows? undeclared (first use in this
function)

_mysql.c:1363: error: ?maxrows? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1365: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1366: error: ?row? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1752: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1372: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1373: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1377: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1380: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1400: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_fetch_row?:
_mysql.c:1404: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1416: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1416: error: ?kwargs? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1419: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1419: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1427: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1507: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_character_set_name?:
_mysql.c:1511: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1512: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_get_client_info?:
_mysql.c:1603: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1613: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_host_info?:
_mysql.c:1616: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1617: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1618: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1628: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_proto_info?:
_mysql.c:1631: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1632: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_num_fields?:
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1643: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_get_server_info?:
_mysql.c:1646: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1647: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1648: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyString_FromString?
makes pointer from integer without a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1659: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_info?:
_mysql.c:1663: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1664: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1665: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1694: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_insert_id?:
_mysql.c:1697: error: ?my_ulonglong? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:1697:_mysql.c:1755: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in
this function)
_mysql.c:1756: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1756: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1757: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1768: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_num_rows?:
_mysql.c:1771: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1772: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1772: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1773: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1797: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_ping?:
_mysql.c:1801: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1802: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1820: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_query?:
_mysql.c:1825: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1826: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1850: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_select_db?:
_mysql.c:1855: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1856: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1872: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_shutdown?:
_mysql.c:1876: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1877: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1899: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_stat?:
_mysql.c:1903: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1904: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1906: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1920: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_store_result?:
_mysql.c:1924: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1926: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1927: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1932: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1961: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_thread_id?:
_mysql.c:1965: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1966: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1981: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_use_result?:
_mysql.c:1985: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1987: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1988: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1993: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2011: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_dealloc?:
_mysql.c:2015: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2025: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_repr?:
_mysql.c:2028: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
 error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:1698: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2042: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1699: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_data_seek?:
_mysql.c:2046: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1701: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2047: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2047: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2048: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2057: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_row_seek?:
_mysql.c:2061: error: ?MYSQL_ROW_OFFSET? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:2061: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:2062: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2063: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2063: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2064: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2069: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2079: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_row_tell?:
_mysql.c:2082: error: ?MYSQL_ROW_OFFSET? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:2082: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:2083: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in thi_mysql.c: At
top level:s function)

_mysql.c:1712: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_kill?:
_mysql.c:1717: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2084: error: syntax error before ?)? token

_mysql.c:2084: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1718: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2085: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2090: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c: At top level:

_mysql.c:1735: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:2096: error: syntax error before ?*? token_mysql.c: In
function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_field_count?:

_mysql.c:1738: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1739: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_dealloc?:

_mysql.c:2098: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:_mysql.c: At top level:

_mysql.c:1752: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_num_fields?:
_mysql.c:2106: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c:1755: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_repr?:
_mysql.c:1756: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2110: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1756: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1757: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1768: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_num_rows?:
_mysql.c:1771: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1772: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1772: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:1773: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1797: error: syntax error before ?*? token_mysql.c: At top
level:
_mysql.c:2330: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2337: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2344: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2351: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2358: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2421: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ResultObject?
_mysql.c:2433: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_getattr?:
_mysql.c:2438: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2438: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2438: warning: passing argument 2 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2438: warning: passing argument 3 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2442: warning: passing argument 1 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2443: error: ?struct PyMemberDef? has no member named ?open?
_mysql.c:2450: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2451: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_GetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2453: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2461: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_getattr?:
_mysql.c:2466: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2466: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2466: warning: passing argument 2 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2466: warning: passing argument 3 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2476: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2477: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_GetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2479: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2487: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_setattr?:
_mysql.c:2491: error: ?v? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2502: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2502: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2503: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2503: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2503: warning: passing argument 3 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2505: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2512: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_setattr?:
_mysql.c:2516: error: ?v? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2527: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2527: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2528: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2528: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2528: warning: passing argument 3 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2530: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type

_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_ping?:
_mysql.c:1801: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1802: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1820: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_query?:
_mysql.c:1825: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1826: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1850: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_select_db?:
_mysql.c:1855: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1856: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1872: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_shutdown?:
_mysql.c:1876: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1877: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1899: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_stat?:
_mysql.c:1903: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1904: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1906: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without
a cast
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1920: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_store_result?:
_mysql.c:1924: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1926: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1927: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1932: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1961: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_thread_id?:
_mysql.c:1965: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1966: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:1981: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_use_result?:
_mysql.c:1985: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1987: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1988: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:1993: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2011: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_dealloc?:
_mysql.c:2015: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2025: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_repr?:
_mysql.c:2028: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2042: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_data_seek?:
_mysql.c:2046: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2047: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2047: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2048: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2057: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_row_seek?:
_mysql.c:2061: error: ?MYSQL_ROW_OFFSET? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:2061: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:2062: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2063: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2063: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2064: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2069: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2079: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_row_tell?:
_mysql.c:2082: error: ?MYSQL_ROW_OFFSET? undeclared (first use in this
function)
_mysql.c:2082: error: syntax error before ?r?
_mysql.c:2083: error: ?args? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2084: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2084: error: syntax error before ?)? token
_mysql.c:2085: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2090: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2096: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_dealloc?:
_mysql.c:2098: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2106: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_repr?:
_mysql.c:2110: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2330: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2337: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2344: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2351: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2358: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ConnectionObject?
_mysql.c:2421: error: syntax error before ?_mysql_ResultObject?
_mysql.c:2433: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_getattr?:
_mysql.c:2438: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2438: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2438: warning: passing argument 2 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2438: warning: passing argument 3 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2442: warning: passing argument 1 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2443: error: ?struct PyMemberDef? has no member named ?open?
_mysql.c:2450: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2451: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_GetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2453: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2461: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_getattr?:
_mysql.c:2466: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2466: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2466: warning: passing argument 2 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2466: warning: passing argument 3 of ?Py_FindMethod? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2476: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2477: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_GetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2479: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2487: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ConnectionObject_setattr?:
_mysql.c:2491: error: ?v? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2502: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2502: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2503: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2503: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2503: warning: passing argument 3 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2505: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c: At top level:
_mysql.c:2512: error: syntax error before ?*? token
_mysql.c: In function ?_mysql_ResultObject_setattr?:
_mysql.c:2516: error: ?v? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2527: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2527: warning: passing argument 2 of ?strcmp? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2528: error: ?self? undeclared (first use in this function)
_mysql.c:2528: warning: passing argument 1 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2528: warning: passing argument 3 of ?PyMember_SetOne? from
incompatible pointer type
_mysql.c:2530: warning: passing argument 2 of ?PyErr_SetString? from
incompatible pointer type
lipo: can't figure out the architecture type of: /var/folders/o5/
o5kYdZHuE3uFkIwBSAbeXE+++TI/-Tmp-//cctMmmFT.out
error: command 'gcc-4.0' failed with exit status 1


From 54wutong at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 04:17:09 2010
From: 54wutong at gmail.com (Stephen.Wu)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:17:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
Message-ID: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
if targetStr in tmp:
    print "find it"
else:
    print "not find"
file.close()

I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  1 04:23:31 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:23:31 -0800
Subject: gmtime
In-Reply-To: <62938b5b-7eda-426c-b91d-3c7061840b2d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <62938b5b-7eda-426c-b91d-3c7061840b2d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B669D93.4070609@islandtraining.com>

gazza wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to discover how to obtain the correct time of say CST/
> America and EST/America in python?
>
> Any help on this would be appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Garyc
>   
The datetime module should give you all you need.

Gary Herron




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 04:26:55 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:26:55 -0800
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
In-Reply-To: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002010126n7602495dlbf9cfc90755c8825@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wutong at gmail.com> wrote:
> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> if targetStr in tmp:
> ? ?print "find it"
> else:
> ? ?print "not find"
> file.close()
>
> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?

If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  1 04:29:20 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:29:20 -0800
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
In-Reply-To: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B669EF0.800@islandtraining.com>

Stephen.Wu wrote:
> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> if targetStr in tmp:
>     print "find it"
> else:
>     print "not find"
> file.close()
>
> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
>   

Python has no specific limit on string size other than memory size and 
perhaps 32 bit address space and so on.  However, if your file size is 
even a fraction of that size, you should not attempt to read it all into 
memory at once.  Is there not a way to process your file in batches of a 
reasonable size?

Gary Herron




From 54wutong at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 04:33:09 2010
From: 54wutong at gmail.com (Stephen.Wu)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:33:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1714.1265016422.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3c67877-fe84-4b5a-bdc4-44d9dd93ba7a@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 5:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wut... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> > if targetStr in tmp:
> > ? ?print "find it"
> > else:
> > ? ?print "not find"
> > file.close()
>
> > I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> > could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
> If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
> MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
> applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

actually, I just use file.read(length) way, i just want to know what
exactly para of length I should set, I'm afraid length doesn't equal
to the amount of physical memory after trials...


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  1 04:45:28 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:45:28 +0100
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
In-Reply-To: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b66a2b8$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Stephen.Wu, 01.02.2010 10:17:
> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> if targetStr in tmp:
>     print "find it"
> else:
>     print "not find"
> file.close()
> 
> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?

Others have already pointed out that reading the entire file into memory is
not a good idea. Try reading chunks repeatedly instead.

As it appears that you simply try to find out if a file contains a specific
byte sequence, you might find acora interesting:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/acora

Also note that there are usually platform optimised tools available to
search content in files, e.g. grep. It's basically impossible to beat their
raw speed even with hand-tuned Python code, so running the right tool using
the subprocess module might be a solution.

Stefan


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  1 05:14:42 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:14:42 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002010214w115bab28ncfce5f3138f54f40@mail.gmail.com>

> PEP 3147 has just been posted, proposing that, beginning in release
> 3.2 (and possibly 2.7) compiled .pyc and .pyo files be placed in a
> directory with a .pyr extension. The reason is so that compiled
> versions of a program can coexist, which isn't possible now.
>
> Frankly, I think this is a really good idea, although I've got a few
> comments.
>
> 1. Apple's MAC OS X should be mentioned, since 10.5 (and presumably
> 10.6) ship with both Python release 2.3 and 2.5 installed.
>
> 2. I think the proposed logic is too complex. If this is installed in
> 3.2, then that release should simply store its .pyc file in the .pyr
> directory, without the need for either a command line switch or an
> environment variable (both are mentioned in the PEP.)
>
> 3. Tool support. There are tools that look for the .pyc files; these
> need to be upgraded somehow. The ones that ship with Python should, of
> course, be fixed with the PEP, but there are others.
>
> 4. I'm in favor of putting the source in the .pyr directory as well,
> but that's got a couple more issues. One is tool support, which is
> likely to be worse for source, and the other is some kind of algorithm
> for identifying which source goes with which object.

I also think the PEP is a great idea and proposes a solution to a real
problem. But I also hear the 'directory clutter' argument and I'm
really concerned too, having all these extra directories around (and
quite a large number of them indeed!). How about this scheme:

1. install python source files to a shared (among python
installations) location /this/is/shared
2. when python X.Y imports a source file from /this/is/shared it will
create pyc files in its private area /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/
Time comparison would be between /this/is/shared/x.py and
/usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/x.pyc, for instance.

Obviously pythonX.Y needs to know the path to /this/is/shared so it
can import modules from there, but this can be controlled by an
environment variable. There would be only .py files in
/this/is/shared.

Linux distro packagers would only offer a single python-myapp to
install and it would only contain python source, and the
version-specific pyc files would be created the first time the
application is used by python. In /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages
there would be only pyc files with magic number matching python X.Y.

So, basically nothing would change only the location of py and pyc
files would be different from current behavior, but the same algorithm
would be run to determine which one to load, when to create a pyc
file, when to ignore the old one, etc.

What would be wrong with this setup?

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 05:19:39 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 02:19:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: User-defined exceptions from 2.6
Message-ID: <12ef62c2-b291-414d-ad58-c18c2811379d@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Which is the best way to create user-defined exceptions since that
*BaseException.message* is deprecated in Python 2.6 ?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb  1 05:25:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:25:15 +0100
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer daemon
In-Reply-To: <op.u7a9tmvxx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <1e689e5c-8e2a-4896-b867-717316fa783e@o26g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7a9tmvxx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <4B66AC0B.8050404@sequans.com>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:54:23 -0300, Thomas Allen 
> <thomasmallen at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>> I have a script that runs an instance of SimpleXMLRPCServer and in
>> general it works as expected. In its __del__, it is supposed to clean
>> up its PID file (written on boot). I have two problems with this
>> server instance: The first is that tt doesn't always clean up its PID
>> file; is there a more reliable way to do this than how I am currently?
>> The second is that when it does crash, I don't know about it...what
>> would be sufficient as a "keep-alive" script to restart it? I suppose
>> I could use something like EventMachine (already installed on my
>> server) to watch the PID file if it were deleted reliably.
>
> I agree with the recommendation of using some daemon library; doing it 
> right is better left to the experts :)
> But if you can't or don't want to alter your code so much, I suggest:
>
>  - use atexit.register, instead of __del__, to delete the PID file
>  - keep a lock on the pid file; if a second instance is able to write 
> to it, it means it's an orphan from a previous, aborted run. (Checking 
> whether a process with such pid exists is not enough - pids are 
> recycled rather fast)
>
see also http://code.activestate.com/recipes/278731/

JM


From rohitraj007 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 05:26:13 2010
From: rohitraj007 at gmail.com (Rohit Roger$)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:56:13 +0530
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 7 *
In-Reply-To: <4755336292109192622@unknownmsgid>
References: <4755336292109192622@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <aa762f631002010226q25956058se80c49560e652400@mail.gmail.com>

Hello
Help for datetime module

Source code is :
*from *datetime *import *datetime
d = datetime(datetime.now().year, datetime.now().month, datetime.now().day,
11, 59, 0 )
print d


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:44 PM, <python-list-request at python.org> wrote:

>  Junk Score: 2 out of 10 (below your Auto Allow threshold<https://www.boxbe.com/mail-screening>)
> | Approve sender <https://www.boxbe.com/anno?tc=1488077305_3972850> | Block
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> domain <https://www.boxbe.com/anno?tc=1488077305_3972850&disp=b&dom>
>
> Send Python-list mailing list submissions to
>        python-list at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        python-list-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        python-list-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: whassup? builtins? python3000? Naah can't be right?
>      (Andrej Mitrovic)
>   2. gmtime (gazza)
>   3. Re: A performance issue when using default value (keakon)
>   4. Re: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes?
>      (Stefan Behnel)
>   5. how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Stephen.Wu)
>   6. Re: gmtime (Gary Herron)
>   7. Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Chris Rebert)
>   8. Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Gary Herron)
>   9. Re: Keyboard input (Dennis Lee Bieber)
>  10. Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Stephen.Wu)
>  11. Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
>      (Stefan Behnel)
>  12. Re: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format (Daniel Fetchinson)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com>
> To:
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:01:57 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: whassup? builtins? python3000? Naah can't be right?
> Hey, it's really simple! Just like the excerpt from the Learning
> Python book says:
>
> "Really, the built-in scope is just a built-in module called builtins,
> but
> you have to import builtins to query built-ins because the name
> builtins is not itself
> built-in...."
>
> :)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: gazza <burslem2001 at yahoo.com>
> To:
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:27:46 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: gmtime
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to discover how to obtain the correct time of say CST/
> America and EST/America in python?
>
> Any help on this would be appreciated.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Garyc
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: keakon <keakon at gmail.com>
> To:
> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:20:28 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: A performance issue when using default value
> Even this style is 41 times faster than h2():
>
> def i2(x=[]):
>  y = x
>  if not y: # add this line
>    y = []  # add this line
>  y.append(1)
>  return y + []
>
> print Timer('i2()','from __main__ import f2, g2, h2, i2').timeit
> (TIMES)
>
> Time: 0.00742356919664
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de>
> To:
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:34:28 +0100
> Subject: Re: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes?
> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
> > I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
> > I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
> > (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
> > original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>
> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Stephen.Wu" <54wutong at gmail.com>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:17:09 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> if targetStr in tmp:
>    print "find it"
> else:
>    print "not find"
> file.close()
>
> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com>
> To: "python-list at python.org" <python-list at python.org>
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:23:31 -0800
> Subject: Re: gmtime
> gazza wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to discover how to obtain the correct time of say CST/
>> America and EST/America in python?
>>
>> Any help on this would be appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Garyc
>>
>>
> The datetime module should give you all you need.
>
> Gary Herron
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com>
> To: "Stephen.Wu" <54wutong at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:26:55 -0800
> Subject: Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wutong at gmail.com> wrote:
> > tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> > if targetStr in tmp:
> >    print "find it"
> > else:
> >    print "not find"
> > file.close()
> >
> > I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> > could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
> If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
> MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
> applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com>
> To:
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:29:20 -0800
> Subject: Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> Stephen.Wu wrote:
>
>> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
>> if targetStr in tmp:
>>    print "find it"
>> else:
>>    print "not find"
>> file.close()
>>
>> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
>> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Python has no specific limit on string size other than memory size and
> perhaps 32 bit address space and so on.  However, if your file size is even
> a fraction of that size, you should not attempt to read it all into memory
> at once.  Is there not a way to process your file in batches of a reasonable
> size?
>
> Gary Herron
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:31:25 -0800
> Subject: Re: Keyboard input
> On 31 Jan 2010 22:40:55 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:10:34 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:51:46 +0000, "Mr.SpOOn" <mr.spoon21 at gmail.com>
> > > declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> > >
> > >> 2010/1/29 Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>:
> > >> >
> > >> > That's strange. If you're using Linux, make sure you have the
> > >> > readline package installed.
> > >>
> > >> I'm using Linux. Ubuntu. I checked on synaptic and I have
> > >> readline-common. Do you mean something else?
> > >>
> > >     But was your Python /built/ using readline?
> >
> >
> > How do you ensure that it is?
>
>        Well... I think the practice on the Linux variants is to set various
> options when building Python locally. I'm on WinXP and rely upon the
> packagers to build with everything available <G> (and may need to check
> the documentation of those builds as described by the packagers)
>
>        It may mean ensuring not only that the runtime library is present,
> but that the development library (C-language header files, etc.) are
> installed.
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Stephen.Wu" <54wutong at gmail.com>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 01:33:09 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> On Feb 1, 5:26 pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wut... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> > > if targetStr in tmp:
> > >    print "find it"
> > > else:
> > >    print "not find"
> > > file.close()
> >
> > > I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> > > could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
> >
> > If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
> > MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
> > applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > --http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> actually, I just use file.read(length) way, i just want to know what
> exactly para of length I should set, I'm afraid length doesn't equal
> to the amount of physical memory after trials...
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de>
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:45:28 +0100
> Subject: Re: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
> Stephen.Wu, 01.02.2010 10:17:
> > tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
> > if targetStr in tmp:
> >     print "find it"
> > else:
> >     print "not find"
> > file.close()
> >
> > I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
> > could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
>
> Others have already pointed out that reading the entire file into memory is
> not a good idea. Try reading chunks repeatedly instead.
>
> As it appears that you simply try to find out if a file contains a specific
> byte sequence, you might find acora interesting:
>
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/acora
>
> Also note that there are usually platform optimised tools available to
> search content in files, e.g. grep. It's basically impossible to beat their
> raw speed even with hand-tuned Python code, so running the right tool using
> the subprocess module might be a solution.
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com>
> To: Python <python-list at python.org>
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:14:42 +0100
> Subject: Re: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
> > PEP 3147 has just been posted, proposing that, beginning in release
> > 3.2 (and possibly 2.7) compiled .pyc and .pyo files be placed in a
> > directory with a .pyr extension. The reason is so that compiled
> > versions of a program can coexist, which isn't possible now.
> >
> > Frankly, I think this is a really good idea, although I've got a few
> > comments.
> >
> > 1. Apple's MAC OS X should be mentioned, since 10.5 (and presumably
> > 10.6) ship with both Python release 2.3 and 2.5 installed.
> >
> > 2. I think the proposed logic is too complex. If this is installed in
> > 3.2, then that release should simply store its .pyc file in the .pyr
> > directory, without the need for either a command line switch or an
> > environment variable (both are mentioned in the PEP.)
> >
> > 3. Tool support. There are tools that look for the .pyc files; these
> > need to be upgraded somehow. The ones that ship with Python should, of
> > course, be fixed with the PEP, but there are others.
> >
> > 4. I'm in favor of putting the source in the .pyr directory as well,
> > but that's got a couple more issues. One is tool support, which is
> > likely to be worse for source, and the other is some kind of algorithm
> > for identifying which source goes with which object.
>
> I also think the PEP is a great idea and proposes a solution to a real
> problem. But I also hear the 'directory clutter' argument and I'm
> really concerned too, having all these extra directories around (and
> quite a large number of them indeed!). How about this scheme:
>
> 1. install python source files to a shared (among python
> installations) location /this/is/shared
> 2. when python X.Y imports a source file from /this/is/shared it will
> create pyc files in its private area /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/
> Time comparison would be between /this/is/shared/x.py and
> /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/x.pyc, for instance.
>
> Obviously pythonX.Y needs to know the path to /this/is/shared so it
> can import modules from there, but this can be controlled by an
> environment variable. There would be only .py files in
> /this/is/shared.
>
> Linux distro packagers would only offer a single python-myapp to
> install and it would only contain python source, and the
> version-specific pyc files would be created the first time the
> application is used by python. In /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages
> there would be only pyc files with magic number matching python X.Y.
>
> So, basically nothing would change only the location of py and pyc
> files would be different from current behavior, but the same algorithm
> would be run to determine which one to load, when to create a pyc
> file, when to ignore the old one, etc.
>
> What would be wrong with this setup?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From gjango.py at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 05:35:06 2010
From: gjango.py at gmail.com (guptha)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 02:35:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Any Python Module to  send ring tones from  PC to mobile via GSM 
	modem
Message-ID: <2c57270e-75a9-471e-b679-c15b9c689c07@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi group,
Is there any python module available which sends ring tones from our
PC to mobile phone using GSM Modem.
I googled in vain to find a solution .I can  find few modules like
pygsm ,singshotsms by which only sms is send .I could appreciate if
some one helps me to find a way to send ring tones .

Thanks
Ganesh


From tino at wildenhain.de  Mon Feb  1 06:07:36 2010
From: tino at wildenhain.de (Tino Wildenhain)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:07:36 +0100
Subject: Any Python Module to  send ring tones from  PC to mobile via
	GSM 	modem
In-Reply-To: <2c57270e-75a9-471e-b679-c15b9c689c07@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <2c57270e-75a9-471e-b679-c15b9c689c07@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B66B5F8.9020506@wildenhain.de>

Hi Ganesh,

Am 01.02.2010 11:35, schrieb guptha:
> Hi group,
> Is there any python module available which sends ring tones from our
> PC to mobile phone using GSM Modem.
> I googled in vain to find a solution .I can  find few modules like
> pygsm ,singshotsms by which only sms is send .I could appreciate if
> some one helps me to find a way to send ring tones .

If you really want to send via GSM (e.g. over the air to another Phone)
it seems you need to generate an MMS instead of SMS.

If thats not the case and you only want to upload tones to your phone
via wire/bluetooth, obex should be the key to find more information on
how to do that.

Regards
Tino

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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 06:14:13 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:14:13 +0100
Subject: how to decode rtf characterset ?
Message-ID: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>

hello,

I want to translate rtf files to unicode strings.
I succeeded in remove all the tags,
but now I'm stucked to the special accent characters,
like :

"V??r"

the character "?" is represented by the string r"\'f3",
or in bytes: 92, 39,102, 51

so I think I need a way to translate that into the string r"\xf3"
but I can't find a way to accomplish that.

a
Any suggestions are very welcome.

thanks,
Stef Mientki


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From bblais at bryant.edu  Mon Feb  1 06:27:27 2010
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:27:27 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
In-Reply-To: <f604188c1001311811t5e6a176ew86e341c1b0ab5fdb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B449B6E5-9A45-4D7F-A694-9E2FA0B54A4E@bryant.edu>
	<f604188c1001311811t5e6a176ew86e341c1b0ab5fdb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>

> On Jan 31, 2010, at 23:05 , John Posner wrote:
>
>> Try commenting out this statement:
>>
>>    self.turtle.tracer(False)
>>
>> That helps on Python 2.6.4.


interesting.  It seems as if the tracer property is a global one:

In [1]:t1=Turtle()

In [2]:t1.tracer()
Out[2]:1

In [3]:t1.tracer(False)

In [4]:t1.tracer()
Out[4]:0

In [5]:t2=Turtle()

In [6]:t2.tracer()
Out[6]:0

In [7]:t2.tracer(True)

In [8]:t1.tracer()
Out[8]:1

looks like I need to set the tracer manually.

however, even if the tracer is off, shouldn't it still draw the  
line?  when I put in the T.tracer(True) it works, but I shouldn't  
need to I think.


On Jan 31, 2010, at 21:11 , kirby urner wrote:

> I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir.

Turtle is given in turtle.py.  I should have subclassed it, but I was  
being lazy.  :)

thanks for the fast replies!


			bb


> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Brian Blais <bblais at bryant.edu>  
> wrote:
>> I'm on Python 2.5, but using the updated turtle.py Version 1.0.1 -  
>> 24. 9.
>> 2009.  The following script draws 5 circles, which it is supposed  
>> to, but
>> then doesn't draw the second turtle which is supposed to simply move
>> forward.  Any ideas?
>> from turtle import *
>> from numpy.random import randint
>> resetscreen()
>> class Circle(object):
>>     def __init__(self,x,y,r,color):
>>         self.x=x
>>         self.y=y
>>         self.r=r
>>         self.color=color
>>
>>         self.turtle=Turtle(visible=False)
>>         self.turtle.tracer(False)
>>         self.draw()
>>
>>     def draw(self):
>>         self.turtle.penup()
>>         self.turtle.setposition(self.x,self.y)
>>         self.turtle.setheading(0)
>>         self.turtle.backward(self.r)
>>         self.turtle.pendown()
>>         self.turtle.fill(True)
>>         self.turtle.pencolor("black")
>>         self.turtle.fillcolor(self.color)
>>         self.turtle.circle(self.r)
>>         self.turtle.fill(False)
>>         self.turtle.penup()
>>
>> for i in range(5):
>>     c=Circle(randint(-350,350),randint(-250,250),10,"red")
>>
>>
>> T=Turtle()
>> T.forward(100)
>> T.forward(100)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> bb
>> --
>> Brian Blais
>> bblais at bryant.edu
>> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>> http://bblais.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Edu-sig mailing list
>> Edu-sig at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>>
>>

-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
http://bblais.blogspot.com/



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From gobladoome at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 06:36:00 2010
From: gobladoome at gmail.com (Paul Atkin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:36:00 +1300
Subject: Embedded python 2.6 in C++ problems
Message-ID: <5089497e1002010336k3e3882el451fc4e56946e7cd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 MFC code to add embedded python
scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls do
not work as expected.

The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it was
GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
(PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)

Here's the error I'm getting:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
get_giftcard_purchase_value
    details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
extract_transaction_details_section
    for line in base_details:
TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found

base_details is a string variable and the code runs fine when run from
standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine from the embedded
app.

I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor

Anyone else had issues of this kind?

Thanks,
Paul.
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From gobladoome at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 06:51:48 2010
From: gobladoome at gmail.com (Paul Atkin)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:51:48 +1300
Subject: Embedded python 2.6 in C++ problems
Message-ID: <5089497e1002010351s773d5a87pb3df73e20f00f1f5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 MFC code to add embedded python
scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls do
not work as expected.

The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it was
GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
(PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)

Here's the error I'm getting:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
get_giftcard_purchase_value
    details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
extract_transaction_details_section
    for line in base_details:
TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found

base_details is a string variable and the code runs fine when run from
standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine from the embedded
app.

I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor

Anyone else had issues of this kind?

Thanks,
Paul.
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From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Feb  1 07:06:25 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:06:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <hk6g41$uqs$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:30:56 +0100, Martin v. Loewis a ?crit?:
> 
>> Is this a bug in Python 2.6 or a deliberate choice regarding
>> implementation concerns I don't know about?
> 
> It's actually a bug also that you pass an array; doing so *should* give
> the very same error.

Well, if you can give neither an array nor a bytearray to recv_into(), 
what *could* you give it?

recv_into() should simply be fixed to use the new buffer API, as it does 
in 3.x.



From gjango.py at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:39:47 2010
From: gjango.py at gmail.com (guptha)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 04:39:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Any Python Module to send ring tones from PC to mobile via GSM 
	modem
References: <2c57270e-75a9-471e-b679-c15b9c689c07@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1722.1265024091.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8406f031-202a-4245-8038-edf548dbad6c@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,Tino
Thanks for your reply,
My PC is connected with cell phone (through data card) as a modem,and
my OS is Ubuntu
I have to send ring tones from my PC to any other cell phone by using
connected cell phone as a modem (Your first case satisfy my need )
I think with pygsm, it is not possible to send MMS,if so what could be
the apt python module to work with .what about python-gammu?
can any one point me a url which gives detail tutorial on this topic

thanks
ganesh


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 07:45:53 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 12:45:53 GMT
Subject: User-defined exceptions from 2.6
References: <12ef62c2-b291-414d-ad58-c18c2811379d@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0376b953$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:19:39 -0800, Joan Miller wrote:

> Which is the best way to create user-defined exceptions since that
> *BaseException.message* is deprecated in Python 2.6 ?


Inherit from an existing exception.


>>> class MyValueException(ValueError):
...     pass
...
>>>
>>> raise MyValueException("value is impossible, try again")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
__main__.MyValueException: value is impossible, try again



>>> class GenericError(Exception):
...     pass
...
>>> raise GenericError("oops")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
__main__.GenericError: oops


Do you need anything more complicated?


-- 
Steven


From magawake at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:47:02 2010
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:47:02 -0500
Subject: libpcap and python
Message-ID: <1cbd6f831002010447w4a2ab26dve66206919e99391@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I used tcpdump to capture data on my network. I would like to analyze
the data using python -- currently using ethereal and wireshark.

I would like to get certain type of packets (I can get the hex code
for them), what is the best way to do this? Lets say I want to capture
all events of `ping localhost`

TIA


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  1 07:55:28 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:55:28 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.01.07.12.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<a2803a2d-4b11-4d8c-bf81-4929830f7fdf@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.01.07.12.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hk6j08$8s3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:43:56 -0800, alex23 wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>> You're using that term wrong. It looks to me that you don't actually
>>> know what a straw man argument is. A straw man argument is when
>>> somebody responds to a deliberately weakened or invalid argument as if
>>> it had been made by their opponent.
>> Jeez, Steve, you're beginning to sound like some kind of fallacy
>> zealot... ;)
> 
> Death to all those who confuse agumentum ad populum with argumentum ad 
> verecundiam!!!
> 
> 
Yeah, what did the zealots ever do for us?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  1 07:57:16 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:57:16 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hk5iud$psc$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.1696.1264981239.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.01.00.25.43@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hk5iud$psc$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hk6j3k$8s3$2@ger.gmane.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 1/31/2010 7:25 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:40:36 -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>>> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au>  wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:28:41 -0800, Ed Keith wrote:
>>>>> In most functional languages you just name a function to access it and
>>>>> you do it ALL the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> for example, in if you have a function 'f' which takes two parameters
>>>>> to call the function and get the result you use:
>>>>>
>>>>>   f 2 3
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want the function itself you use:
>>>>>
>>>>>     f
>>>>
>>>> How do you call a function of no arguments?
>>>
>>> It's not really a function in that case, it's just a named constant.
>>> (Recall that functions don't/can't have side-effects.)
> 
> Three of you gave essentially identical answers, but I still do not see
> how given something like
> 
> def f(): return 1
> 
> I differentiate between 'function object at address xxx' and 'int 1'
> objects.
> 
But in a functional environment you don't need to. That's pretty much
the whole point.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From peloko45 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 07:59:03 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 04:59:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: User-defined exceptions from 2.6
References: <12ef62c2-b291-414d-ad58-c18c2811379d@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0376b953$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4f599822-4037-4378-93bc-0ffd45ad3e5e@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 1 feb, 12:45, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:19:39 -0800, Joan Miller wrote:
> > Which is the best way to create user-defined exceptions since that
> > *BaseException.message* is deprecated in Python 2.6 ?
>
> Inherit from an existing exception.
>
> >>> class MyValueException(ValueError):
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...
>
> >>> raise MyValueException("value is impossible, try again")
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> __main__.MyValueException: value is impossible, try again
>
> >>> class GenericError(Exception):
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...>>> raise GenericError("oops")
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> __main__.GenericError: oops
>
> Do you need anything more complicated?
>
It's enought, thanks!


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Mon Feb  1 08:36:37 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:36:37 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
> 
> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
> 

of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)

I mean: I want to walk with a Python script through the parsed 
tree HTML and modify here and there things  (auto alt tags from 
DB/similar, link corrections, text sections/translated 
sentences... due to HTML code and content checks.)

Then I want to output the changed tree - but as close to the 
original format as far as possible. No changes to my white space 
identation, etc..  Only lokal changes, where really tags where 
changed.

Thats similiar like that what a good HTML editor does: After you 
made little changes, it doesn't reformat/re-spit-out your whole 
code layout from tree/attribute logic only. you have lokal changes 
only.
But a simple HTML editor like that in Mozilla-Seamonkey outputs a 
whole new HTML, produces the HTML from logical tree only 
(regarding his (ugly) style), destroys my whitspace layout and 
much more  - forgetting anything about the original layout.

Such a "good HTML editor" must somehow track the original 
positions of the tags in the file. And during each logical change 
in the tree it must tracks the file position changes/offsets. That 
thing seems to miss in lxml and BeautifulSoup which I tried so far.

This is a frequent need I have. Nobody else's?

Seems I need to write my own or patch BS to do that extra tracking?


Robert


From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Mon Feb  1 08:48:08 2010
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 08:48:08 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
In-Reply-To: <953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>
References: <B449B6E5-9A45-4D7F-A694-9E2FA0B54A4E@bryant.edu>	<f604188c1001311811t5e6a176ew86e341c1b0ab5fdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <4B66DB98.9030800@canterburyschool.org>

Brian Blais wrote:
>> On Jan 31, 2010, at 23:05 , John Posner wrote:
>>
>>> Try commenting out this statement:
>>>
>>>    self.turtle.tracer(False)
>>>
>>> That helps on Python 2.6.4.
> 
> 
> interesting.  It seems as if the tracer property is a global one:

Actually, the tracer method that does the work is part of the 
TurtleScreen class, and individual Turtle instances just access the 
tracer method of the TurtleScreen they inhabit... if that makes sense. 
So since your turtles are on the same screen, yes, in effect, tracer is 
sort of global.

Cheers,
Vern

> 
> In [1]:t1=Turtle()
> 
> In [2]:t1.tracer()
> Out[2]:1
> 
> In [3]:t1.tracer(False)
> 
> In [4]:t1.tracer()
> Out[4]:0
> 
> In [5]:t2=Turtle()
> 
> In [6]:t2.tracer()
> Out[6]:0
> 
> In [7]:t2.tracer(True)
> 
> In [8]:t1.tracer()
> Out[8]:1
> 
> looks like I need to set the tracer manually. 
> 
> however, even if the tracer is off, shouldn't it still draw the line? 
>  when I put in the T.tracer(True) it works, but I shouldn't need to I think.
> 
> 
> On Jan 31, 2010, at 21:11 , kirby urner wrote:
> 
>> I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir.
> 
> Turtle is given in turtle.py.  I should have subclassed it, but I was 
> being lazy.  :)
> 
> thanks for the fast replies!
> 
> 
> bb
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Brian Blais <bblais at bryant.edu 
>> <mailto:bblais at bryant.edu>> wrote:
>>> I'm on Python 2.5, but using the updated turtle.py Version 1.0.1 - 24. 9.
>>> 2009.  The following script draws 5 circles, which it is supposed to, but
>>> then doesn't draw the second turtle which is supposed to simply move
>>> forward.  Any ideas?
>>> from turtle import *
>>> from numpy.random import randint
>>> resetscreen()
>>> class Circle(object):
>>>     def __init__(self,x,y,r,color):
>>>         self.x=x
>>>         self.y=y
>>>         self.r=r
>>>         self.color=color
>>>
>>>         self.turtle=Turtle(visible=False)
>>>         self.turtle.tracer(False)
>>>         self.draw()
>>>
>>>     def draw(self):
>>>         self.turtle.penup()
>>>         self.turtle.setposition(self.x,self.y)
>>>         self.turtle.setheading(0)
>>>         self.turtle.backward(self.r)
>>>         self.turtle.pendown()
>>>         self.turtle.fill(True)
>>>         self.turtle.pencolor("black")
>>>         self.turtle.fillcolor(self.color)
>>>         self.turtle.circle(self.r)
>>>         self.turtle.fill(False)
>>>         self.turtle.penup()
>>>
>>> for i in range(5):
>>>     c=Circle(randint(-350,350),randint(-250,250),10,"red")
>>>
>>>
>>> T=Turtle()
>>> T.forward(100)
>>> T.forward(100)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> bb
>>> --
>>> Brian Blais
>>> bblais at bryant.edu <mailto:bblais at bryant.edu>
>>> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>>> http://bblais.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Edu-sig mailing list
>>> Edu-sig at python.org <mailto:Edu-sig at python.org>
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>>>
>>>
> 
> -- 
> Brian Blais
> bblais at bryant.edu <mailto:bblais at bryant.edu>
> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
> http://bblais.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Mon Feb  1 08:54:59 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:54:59 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <hk6mfr$1cd$1@news.albasani.net>

Robert wrote:
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
>>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
>>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>>
>> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
>> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
>>
> 
> of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)
> 
> I mean: I want to walk with a Python script through the parsed tree HTML 
> and modify here and there things  (auto alt tags from DB/similar, link 
> corrections, text sections/translated sentences... due to HTML code and 
> content checks.)
> 
> Then I want to output the changed tree - but as close to the original 
> format as far as possible. No changes to my white space identation, 
> etc..  Only lokal changes, where really tags where changed.
> 
> Thats similiar like that what a good HTML editor does: After you made 
> little changes, it doesn't reformat/re-spit-out your whole code layout 
> from tree/attribute logic only. you have lokal changes only.
> But a simple HTML editor like that in Mozilla-Seamonkey outputs a whole 
> new HTML, produces the HTML from logical tree only (regarding his (ugly) 
> style), destroys my whitspace layout and much more  - forgetting 
> anything about the original layout.
> 
> Such a "good HTML editor" must somehow track the original positions of 
> the tags in the file. And during each logical change in the tree it must 
> tracks the file position changes/offsets. That thing seems to miss in 
> lxml and BeautifulSoup which I tried so far.
> 
> This is a frequent need I have. Nobody else's?
> 
> Seems I need to write my own or patch BS to do that extra tracking?
> 

basic feature(s) of such parser perhaps:

* can it tell for each tag object in the parsed tree, at what 
original file position start:end it resided? even a basic need: 
tell me the line number e.g. (for warning/analysis reports e.g.)

(* do the tree objects auto track/know if they were changed. (for 
convenience; a tree copy may serve this otherwise .. )

the creation of a output with local changes whould be rather 
simple from that ...


Robert


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  1 09:05:39 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:05:39 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Robert, 01.02.2010 14:36:
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
>>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
>>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>>
>> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
>> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
> 
> of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)

I meant "parsed" in the sense of "has parsed and is now working on".


> I mean: I want to walk with a Python script through the parsed tree HTML
> and modify here and there things  (auto alt tags from DB/similar, link
> corrections, text sections/translated sentences... due to HTML code and
> content checks.)

Sure, perfectly valid use case.


> Then I want to output the changed tree - but as close to the original
> format as far as possible. No changes to my white space identation,
> etc..  Only lokal changes, where really tags where changed.

That's up to you. If you only apply local changes that do not change any
surrounding whitespace, you'll be fine.


> Thats similiar like that what a good HTML editor does: After you made
> little changes, it doesn't reformat/re-spit-out your whole code layout
> from tree/attribute logic only. you have lokal changes only.

HTML editors don't work that way. They always "re-spit-out" the whole code
when you click on "save". They certainly don't track the original file
position of tags. What they preserve is the content, including whitespace
(or not, if they reformat the code, but that's usually an *option*).


> Such a "good HTML editor" must somehow track the original positions of
> the tags in the file. And during each logical change in the tree it must
> tracks the file position changes/offsets.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. The file position of a tag is determined by
whitespace, i.e. line endings and indentation. lxml does not alter that,
unless you tell it do do so.

Since you keep claiming that it *does* alter it, please come up with a
reproducible example that shows a) what you do in your code, b) what your
input is and c) what unexpected output it creates. Do not forget to include
the version number of lxml and libxml2 that you are using, as well as a
comment on /how/ the output differs from what you expected.

My stab in the dark is that you forgot to copy the tail text of elements
that you replace by new content, and that you didn't properly indent new
content that you added. But that's just that, a stab in the dark. You
didn't provide enough information for even an educated guess.

Stefan


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb  1 10:09:29 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:09:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: libpcap and python
References: <mailman.1726.1265028424.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hk6qr9$br9$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2010-02-01, Mag Gam <magawake at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I used tcpdump to capture data on my network. I would like to analyze
> the data using python -- currently using ethereal and wireshark.
>
> I would like to get certain type of packets (I can get the hex code
> for them), what is the best way to do this? Lets say I want to capture
> all events of `ping localhost`

http://www.google.com/search?q=python+pcap

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! My face is new, my
                                  at               license is expired, and I'm
                               visi.com            under a doctor's care!!!!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 10:27:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 15:27:31 GMT
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:14:42 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> I also think the PEP is a great idea and proposes a solution to a real
> problem. But I also hear the 'directory clutter' argument and I'm really
> concerned too, having all these extra directories around (and quite a
> large number of them indeed!). 

Keep in mind that if you don't explicitly ask for the proposed feature, 
you won't see any change at all. You need to run Python with the -R 
switch, or set an environment variable. The average developer won't see 
any clutter at all unless she is explicitly supporting multiple versions.



> How about this scheme:
> 
> 1. install python source files to a shared (among python installations)
> location /this/is/shared
> 2. when python X.Y imports a source file from /this/is/shared it will
> create pyc files in its private area /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/

$ touch /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/STEVEN
touch: cannot touch `/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/STEVEN': Permission 
denied

There's your first problem: most users don't have write-access to the 
private area. When you install a package, you normally do so as root, and 
it all works. When you import a module and it gets compiled as a .pyc 
file, you're generally running as a regular user.


> Time comparison would be between /this/is/shared/x.py and 
> /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/x.pyc, for instance.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "time comparison".


[...]
> In /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages there would be only pyc files with
> magic number matching python X.Y.

Personally, I think it is a terribly idea to keep the source file and 
byte code file in such radically different places. They should be kept 
together. What you call "clutter" I call having the files that belong 
together kept together.



> So, basically nothing would change only the location of py and pyc files
> would be different from current behavior, but the same algorithm would
> be run to determine which one to load, when to create a pyc file, when
> to ignore the old one, etc.

What happens when there is a .pyc file in the same location as the .py 
file? Because it *will* happen. Does it get ignored, or does it take 
precedence over the site specific file?

Given:

    ./module.pyc
    /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/module.pyc

and you execute "import module", which gets used? Note that in this 
situation, there may or may not be a module.py file.


> What would be wrong with this setup?

Consider:

    ./module.py
    ./package/module.py

Under your suggestion, both of these will compile to

    /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/module.pyc



-- 
Steven


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 10:30:50 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:30:50 -0600
Subject: Unable to install numpy
In-Reply-To: <a273bfa1-9ac8-4413-8f6f-313373d2ddce@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <3a772f49-aee6-4450-b60e-8f05daec136a@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1099.1263845336.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a273bfa1-9ac8-4413-8f6f-313373d2ddce@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk6s39$crf$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-01-31 08:03 AM, vsoler wrote:
> On Jan 18, 9:08 pm, Robert Kern<robert.k... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 2010-01-18 14:02 PM, vsoler wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>
>>> I just download Numpy, and tried to install it using "numpy-1.4.0-
>>> win32-superpack-python2.6.exe"
>>
>>> I get an error:  "Python version 2.6 required, which was not found in
>>> the Registry"
>>
>>> However, I am using Python 2.6 every day. I'm running Windows 7.
>>
>>> What can I do?
>>
>> Please ask numpy installation questions on the numpy mailing list.
>>
>>     http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists
>
> Thank you Robert.
>
> I'm going to direct my questions towards scipy.org. However, since I
> do not find my questions already answered, could you tell me where to
> post it?
>
> I beg your pardon for still asking this question outside of scipy.org,
> but I've been unable to move on.

Subscribe to the numpy-discussion mailing list following the directions given on 
the above-linked page. Then send email to numpy-discussion at scipy.org with your 
question.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  1 10:46:52 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:46:52 +0000
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002010126n7602495dlbf9cfc90755c8825@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c1002010126n7602495dlbf9cfc90755c8825@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B66F76C.5040507@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Stephen.Wu <54wutong at gmail.com> wrote:
>> tmp=file.read() (very huge file)
>> if targetStr in tmp:
>>    print "find it"
>> else:
>>    print "not find"
>> file.close()
>>
>> I checked if file.read() is huge to some extend, it doesn't work, but
>> could any give me some certain information on this prolbem?
> 
> If the file's contents is larger than available memory, you'll get a
> MemoryError. To avoid this, you can read the file in by chunks (or if
> applicable, by lines) and see if each chunk/line matches.
> 
If you're processing in chunks then you also need to consider the
possibility that what you're looking for crosses a chunk boundary, of
course. It's an easy case to miss! :-)


From sdeibel at wingware.com  Mon Feb  1 11:16:28 2010
From: sdeibel at wingware.com (Stephan Deibel)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:16:28 -0500
Subject: ANN: Wing IDE 3.2.4 released
Message-ID: <4B66FE5C.4010801@wingware.com>

Hi,

Wingware has released version 3.2.4 of Wing IDE, our integrated development
environment for the Python programming language.  Wing IDE can be used on
Windows, Linux, and OS X to develop Python code for web, GUI, and embedded
scripting applications.  Wing IDE provides auto-completion, call tips, a
powerful debugger, unit testing, version control, search, and many other
features.

This release includes the following minor features and improvements:

* Corrected support for non-ascii I/O when debugging under Python 3.x
* Support debugging of wide unicode builds of Python 3.x
* Improve GUI responsiveness in very large projects (optimized external
  file change checking)
* Auto-enter last failed or canceled version control commit message
* Added context menu for copy/paste to commit message area in version
  control tools
* Version control annotate commands like 'svn blame' show results in
  scratch buffer
* Many other minor features and bug fixes; See the change log
  at http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/3.2.4/CHANGELOG.txt for details

*Wing 3.2 Highlights*

Version 3.2 of Wing IDE includes the following new features not present
in Wing IDE 3.1:

* Support for Python 3.0 and 3.1
* Rewritten version control integration with support for Subversion, CVS,
  Bazaar, git, Mercurial, and Perforce (*)
* Added 64-bit Debian, RPM, and tar file installers for Linux
* File management in Project view (**)
* Auto-completion in the editor obtains completion data from live runtime
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From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:31:34 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:31:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 4:03?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 2:59?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I've made a similar post on the Cython mailing list, however I think
> > this is more python-specific. I'm having trouble setting up distutils
> > to use MinGW instead of Visual Studio when building a module. Even tho
> > I've just uninstalled VS, and cleared out any leftover VS environment
> > variables, distutils keeps wanting to use it.
>
> > The steps I took:
>
> > Fresh installation of Python 3.1.1
> > Successfully installed MinGW, added to the path variable (gcc in
> > command prompt works)
> > Successfully installed Cython, imports from Cython in Python work.
> > Added a distutils.cfg file in \Python31\Lib\distutils\ directory with:
>
> > [build]
> > compiler=mingw32
>
> > (also tried adding [build_ext] compiler=mingw32)
>
> > There's a demo setup.py module that came with Cython, I tried the
> > following commands:
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > python setup.py build_ext --inplace
>
> > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
>
> > > python setup.py build
>
> > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > I'm having the exact same issue with trying to build the Polygon
> > library via MinGW. In fact, the reason I had installed Visual Studio
> > in the first place was to be able to build the Polygon library, since
> > I was having these errors.
>
> > What do I need to do to make distutils/python use MinGW?
>
> Update:
>
> I installed and tried building with Python 2.6, it calls MinGW when I
> have the distutils.cfg file configured properly (same configuration as
> the Python 3.1.1 one)
>
> But why doesn't it work on a fresh Python 3.1.1 installation as well?
> Is this a bug?

Also tried calling (Python 3.1.1):

----------------------------------------------------
python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32

error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
----------------------------------------------------

I've tried using pexports and the dlltool to build new python31.def
and libpython31.a files, and put them in the libs folder. That didn't
work either.

I've also tried adding some print statements in the \distutils\dist.py
file, in the parse_config_files() function, just to see if Python
properly parses the config file. And it does, both Python 2.6 and 3.1
parse the distutils.cfg file properly. Yet something is making python
3 look for the VS/VC compiler instead of MinGW. I'll keep updating on
any progres..


From casevh at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:44:46 2010
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:44:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <12c34cd1-7740-4257-9bb6-bdfb55b44b27@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 8:31?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 4:03?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 2:59?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi,
>
> > > I've made a similar post on the Cython mailing list, however I think
> > > this is more python-specific. I'm having trouble setting up distutils
> > > to use MinGW instead of Visual Studio when building a module. Even tho
> > > I've just uninstalled VS, and cleared out any leftover VS environment
> > > variables, distutils keeps wanting to use it.
>
> > > The steps I took:
>
> > > Fresh installation of Python 3.1.1
> > > Successfully installed MinGW, added to the path variable (gcc in
> > > command prompt works)
> > > Successfully installed Cython, imports from Cython in Python work.
> > > Added a distutils.cfg file in \Python31\Lib\distutils\ directory with:
>
> > > [build]
> > > compiler=mingw32
>
> > > (also tried adding [build_ext] compiler=mingw32)
>
> > > There's a demo setup.py module that came with Cython, I tried the
> > > following commands:
>
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > python setup.py build_ext --inplace
>
> > > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
>
> > > > python setup.py build
>
> > > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > I'm having the exact same issue with trying to build the Polygon
> > > library via MinGW. In fact, the reason I had installed Visual Studio
> > > in the first place was to be able to build the Polygon library, since
> > > I was having these errors.
>
> > > What do I need to do to make distutils/python use MinGW?
>
> > Update:
>
> > I installed and tried building with Python 2.6, it calls MinGW when I
> > have the distutils.cfg file configured properly (same configuration as
> > the Python 3.1.1 one)
>
> > But why doesn't it work on a fresh Python 3.1.1 installation as well?
> > Is this a bug?
>
> Also tried calling (Python 3.1.1):
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32
>
> error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> I've tried using pexports and the dlltool to build new python31.def
> and libpython31.a files, and put them in the libs folder. That didn't
> work either.
>
> I've also tried adding some print statements in the \distutils\dist.py
> file, in the parse_config_files() function, just to see if Python
> properly parses the config file. And it does, both Python 2.6 and 3.1
> parse the distutils.cfg file properly. Yet something is making python
> 3 look for the VS/VC compiler instead of MinGW. I'll keep updating on
> any progres..- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think this is http://bugs.python.org/issue6377.

I applied the patch to my local copy of Python 3.1 and it seems to
work.

casevh


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:50:36 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:50:36 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi -- I have many sections of code like this:

    for value in value_iterator:
         value_function(value)

I noticed that this does two things I don't like:

1. looks up "value_function" and "value" for each iteration, but
"value_function" doesn't change.
2. side effect of (maybe) leaking the iterator variable "value" into
the code following the loop (if the iterator is not empty).

I can take care of 2 by explicitly deleting the variable at the end:

   del value

but I'd probably forget to do that sometimes.  I then realized that,
in the 2.x series, I can accomplish the same thing with:

    map(value_function, value_iterator)

and avoid both problems BUT map() returns a list which is never used.
Not a big deal for small iterables, I guess, but it seems messy.  Upon
conversion to 3.x I have to explicitly list-ify it:

    list(map(value_function, value_iterator))

which works but again the list returned is never used (extra work) and
has to be gc'd I suppose (extra memory).

It's easy to make a little function to take care of this (2.x):

    from itertools import imap
    def apply(function, iterable):
        for item in imap(function, iterable):
            pass

then later:

   apply(value_function, value_iterator)

or something similar thing in 3.x, but that just adds an additional
function def that I have to include whenever I want to do something
like this.

So.....I'm wondering if there is any interest in an apply() built-in
function that would work like map() does in 2.x (calls the function
with each value returned by the iterator) but return nothing.  Maybe
"apply" isn't the best name; it's just the first one that occurred to
me.

Or is this just silly and should I forget about it?

-- 
Gerald Britton


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Feb  1 11:53:01 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:53:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: how long a Str can be used in this python code segment?
References: <6d7a9ae4-c15e-4e17-8123-2fbf07f0d3a2@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1714.1265016422.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c3c67877-fe84-4b5a-bdc4-44d9dd93ba7a@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk70td$u47$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:33:09 -0800, Stephen.Wu a ?crit?:
> 
> actually, I just use file.read(length) way, i just want to know what
> exactly para of length I should set, I'm afraid length doesn't equal to
> the amount of physical memory after trials...

There's no exact length you "should" set, just set something big enough 
that looping doesn't add any noticeable overhead, but small enough that 
it doesn't take too much memory. Something between 64kB and 1MB sounds 
reasonable.




From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:53:41 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:53:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <054ae97c-f8e9-4090-a7e0-cf6a55c2cf5d@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I've found the problem:

For the windows Python 3.1.1 x86 installation, the file \Python31\Lib
\Distutils\command\build_ext.py, has this:

Line 313:

        self.compiler = new_compiler(compiler=None,

But Python 2.6 has this line:

Line 306:

        self.compiler = new_compiler(compiler=self.compiler,



I've changed the Python 3.1.1 \Python31\Lib\Distutils\command
\build_ext.py, Line 313 to this:

        self.compiler = new_compiler(compiler=self.compiler,

And now MinGW gets properly called in Python 3.1.1. I think this must
have been a typo.


Is there anyone else that can confirm this?

The installation that distributes the file with that line is from this
Python ftp link: http://python.org/ftp/python/3.1.1/python-3.1.1.msi


From affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com  Mon Feb  1 12:00:19 2010
From: affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com (Tracubik)
Date: 01 Feb 2010 17:00:19 GMT
Subject: create a string of variable lenght
References: <4b65729b$0$1126$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
	<olag37-g7r.ln1@spamfence.net>
	<4b660056$0$1131$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.1701.1264985668.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6708a3$0$1132$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>

Il Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:54:17 -0500, Benjamin Kaplan ha scritto:

> First of all, if you haven't read this before, please do. It will make
> this much clearer.
> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html

i'm reading it right now, thanks :-)

[cut]

> Solution to your problem: in addition to keeping the #-*- coding ...
> line, go with G?nther's advice and use Unicode strings.

that is: always use the "u" operator (i.e. my_name = u"Nico"), right?

Ciao,
Nico



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 12:03:10 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:03:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<12c34cd1-7740-4257-9bb6-bdfb55b44b27@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c698aaf2-ae1c-4c94-a957-df78ebac0781@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 5:44?pm, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:31?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 4:03?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 1, 2:59?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Hi,
>
> > > > I've made a similar post on the Cython mailing list, however I think
> > > > this is more python-specific. I'm having trouble setting up distutils
> > > > to use MinGW instead of Visual Studio when building a module. Even tho
> > > > I've just uninstalled VS, and cleared out any leftover VS environment
> > > > variables, distutils keeps wanting to use it.
>
> > > > The steps I took:
>
> > > > Fresh installation of Python 3.1.1
> > > > Successfully installed MinGW, added to the path variable (gcc in
> > > > command prompt works)
> > > > Successfully installed Cython, imports from Cython in Python work.
> > > > Added a distutils.cfg file in \Python31\Lib\distutils\ directory with:
>
> > > > [build]
> > > > compiler=mingw32
>
> > > > (also tried adding [build_ext] compiler=mingw32)
>
> > > > There's a demo setup.py module that came with Cython, I tried the
> > > > following commands:
>
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > > python setup.py build_ext --inplace
>
> > > > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
>
> > > > > python setup.py build
>
> > > > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > I'm having the exact same issue with trying to build the Polygon
> > > > library via MinGW. In fact, the reason I had installed Visual Studio
> > > > in the first place was to be able to build the Polygon library, since
> > > > I was having these errors.
>
> > > > What do I need to do to make distutils/python use MinGW?
>
> > > Update:
>
> > > I installed and tried building with Python 2.6, it calls MinGW when I
> > > have the distutils.cfg file configured properly (same configuration as
> > > the Python 3.1.1 one)
>
> > > But why doesn't it work on a fresh Python 3.1.1 installation as well?
> > > Is this a bug?
>
> > Also tried calling (Python 3.1.1):
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32
>
> > error: Unable to find vcvarsall.bat
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > I've tried using pexports and the dlltool to build new python31.def
> > and libpython31.a files, and put them in the libs folder. That didn't
> > work either.
>
> > I've also tried adding some print statements in the \distutils\dist.py
> > file, in the parse_config_files() function, just to see if Python
> > properly parses the config file. And it does, both Python 2.6 and 3.1
> > parse the distutils.cfg file properly. Yet something is making python
> > 3 look for the VS/VC compiler instead of MinGW. I'll keep updating on
> > any progres..- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I think this ishttp://bugs.python.org/issue6377.
>
> I applied the patch to my local copy of Python 3.1 and it seems to
> work.
>
> casevh

Thanks for the link, it seems like it's got more to do than what I
just posted. But in any case, it works for me now.

I think I'll have to open myself a blog and post some guides for
problems like these, so people can avoid spending whole nights around
a problem like this. :)


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 12:03:20 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:03:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python distutils build problems with MinGW
References: <67168350-0f64-454c-a89b-767cba82e439@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<f31b42cf-5fe5-425a-a18a-12675701dbe6@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<cf6cfb0a-cd72-478a-ad51-f61d9128e989@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<054ae97c-f8e9-4090-a7e0-cf6a55c2cf5d@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0a26893d-45b2-42c6-ae5f-3a59410b790f@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Well, in any case this seems to be working ok for me now.


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Mon Feb  1 12:16:20 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:16:20 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <hk729b$naa$1@news.albasani.net>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Robert, 01.02.2010 14:36:
>> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>>> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>>>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element tree,
>>>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>>>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of the
>>>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>>> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
>>> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
>> of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)
> 
> I meant "parsed" in the sense of "has parsed and is now working on".
> 
> 
>> I mean: I want to walk with a Python script through the parsed tree HTML
>> and modify here and there things  (auto alt tags from DB/similar, link
>> corrections, text sections/translated sentences... due to HTML code and
>> content checks.)
> 
> Sure, perfectly valid use case.
> 
> 
>> Then I want to output the changed tree - but as close to the original
>> format as far as possible. No changes to my white space identation,
>> etc..  Only lokal changes, where really tags where changed.
> 
> That's up to you. If you only apply local changes that do not change any
> surrounding whitespace, you'll be fine.
> 
> 
>> Thats similiar like that what a good HTML editor does: After you made
>> little changes, it doesn't reformat/re-spit-out your whole code layout
>> from tree/attribute logic only. you have lokal changes only.
> 
> HTML editors don't work that way. They always "re-spit-out" the whole code
> when you click on "save". They certainly don't track the original file
> position of tags. What they preserve is the content, including whitespace
> (or not, if they reformat the code, but that's usually an *option*).
> 
> 
>> Such a "good HTML editor" must somehow track the original positions of
>> the tags in the file. And during each logical change in the tree it must
>> tracks the file position changes/offsets.
> 
> Sorry, but that's nonsense. The file position of a tag is determined by
> whitespace, i.e. line endings and indentation. lxml does not alter that,
> unless you tell it do do so.
> 
> Since you keep claiming that it *does* alter it, please come up with a
> reproducible example that shows a) what you do in your code, b) what your
> input is and c) what unexpected output it creates. Do not forget to include
> the version number of lxml and libxml2 that you are using, as well as a
> comment on /how/ the output differs from what you expected.
> 
> My stab in the dark is that you forgot to copy the tail text of elements
> that you replace by new content, and that you didn't properly indent new
> content that you added. But that's just that, a stab in the dark. You
> didn't provide enough information for even an educated guess.
> 

I think you confused the logical level of what I meant with "file 
position":
Of course its not about (necessarily) writing back to the same 
open file (OS-level), but regarding the whole serializiation 
string (wherever it is finally written to - I typically write the 
auto-converted HTML files to a 2nd test folder first, and want use 
"diff -u ..." to see human-readable what changed happened - which 
again is only reasonable if the original layout is preserved as 
good as possible )

lxml and BeautifulSoup e.g. : load&parse a HTML file to a tree, 
immediately serialize the tree without changes => you see big 
differences of original and serialized files with quite any file.

The main issue: those libs seem to not track any info about the 
original string/file positions of the objects they parse. The just 
forget the past. Thus they cannot by principle do what I want it 
seems ...

Or does anybody see attributes of the tree objects - which I 
overlooked? Or a lib which can do or at least enable better this 
source-back-connected editing?


Robert


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  1 12:17:31 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:17:31 +0000
Subject: how to decode rtf characterset ?
In-Reply-To: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>
References: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B670CAB.7090303@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> hello,
> 
> I want to translate rtf files to unicode strings.
> I succeeded in remove all the tags,
> but now I'm stucked to the special accent characters,
> like :
> 
> "V??r"
> 
> the character "?" is represented by the string r"\'f3",
> or in bytes: 92, 39,102, 51
> 
> so I think I need a way to translate that into the string r"\xf3"
> but I can't find a way to accomplish that.
> 
> a
> Any suggestions are very welcome.
> 
Change r"\'f3" to r"\xf3" and then decode to Unicode:

 >>> s = r"\'f3"
 >>> s = s.replace(r"\'", r"\x").decode("unicode_escape")
 >>> print s
?


From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 12:29:25 2010
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:29:25 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] odd drawing problem with turtle.py
In-Reply-To: <953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>
References: <B449B6E5-9A45-4D7F-A694-9E2FA0B54A4E@bryant.edu>
	<f604188c1001311811t5e6a176ew86e341c1b0ab5fdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<953804BA-5723-427E-A316-9B16A94BAD17@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <f604188c1002010929n2c68264apb33b240fb497470c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Brian Blais <bblais at bryant.edu> wro

>
> I don't see where you've defined a Turtle class to instantiate sir.
>
>
> Turtle is given in turtle.py.  I should have subclassed it, but I was being
> lazy.  :)
>
> thanks for the fast replies!
>
>
>

> bb
>
>
>


No obvious need to subclass.

You weren't being lazy, I was being sloppy.

I'm glad Vern caught my error right away.

Kirby
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From tim.arnold at sas.com  Mon Feb  1 12:42:07 2010
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:42:07 -0500
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes (upon
	serialization)
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>
	<4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk729b$naa$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <hk73pf$man$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>


"Robert" <no-spam at non-existing.invalid> wrote in message 
news:hk729b$naa$1 at news.albasani.net...
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Robert, 01.02.2010 14:36:
>>> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>>>> Robert, 31.01.2010 20:57:
>>>>> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element 
>>>>> tree,
>>>>> I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document
>>>>> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format of 
>>>>> the
>>>>> original HTML code. makes it rather unreadable.
>>>> What do you mean? Could you give an example? lxml certainly does not
>>>> destroy anything it parsed, unless you tell it to do so.
>>> of course it does not destroy during parsing.(?)
>>

I think I understand what you want, but I don't understand why yet. Do you 
want to view the differences in an IDE or something like that? If so, why 
not pretty-print both and compare that?
--Tim




From mal at egenix.com  Mon Feb  1 13:06:37 2010
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:06:37 +0100
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes
	(upon	serialization)
In-Reply-To: <hk729b$naa$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>	<4b669215$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>	<hk6ldb$vbn$1@news.albasani.net>	<4b66dfb3$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hk729b$naa$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <4B67182D.3060500@egenix.com>

Robert wrote:
> I think you confused the logical level of what I meant with "file
> position":
> Of course its not about (necessarily) writing back to the same open file
> (OS-level), but regarding the whole serializiation string (wherever it
> is finally written to - I typically write the auto-converted HTML files
> to a 2nd test folder first, and want use "diff -u ..." to see
> human-readable what changed happened - which again is only reasonable if
> the original layout is preserved as good as possible )
> 
> lxml and BeautifulSoup e.g. : load&parse a HTML file to a tree,
> immediately serialize the tree without changes => you see big
> differences of original and serialized files with quite any file.
> 
> The main issue: those libs seem to not track any info about the original
> string/file positions of the objects they parse. The just forget the
> past. Thus they cannot by principle do what I want it seems ...
> 
> Or does anybody see attributes of the tree objects - which I overlooked?
> Or a lib which can do or at least enable better this
> source-back-connected editing?

You'd have to write your own parse (or extend the example HTML
one we include), but mxTextTools allows you to work on original
code quite easily: it tags parts of the input string with objects.

You can then have those objects manipulate the underlying text as
necessary and write back the text using the original formatting
plus your local changes.

	http://www.egenix.com/products/python/mxBase/mxTextTools/

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Feb 01 2010)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/


From mal at egenix.com  Mon Feb  1 13:11:24 2010
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:11:24 +0100
Subject: how to decode rtf characterset ?
In-Reply-To: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>
References: <4B66B785.1090406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B67194C.3030307@egenix.com>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> hello,
> 
> I want to translate rtf files to unicode strings.
> I succeeded in remove all the tags,
> but now I'm stucked to the special accent characters,
> like :
> 
> "V??r"
> 
> the character "?" is represented by the string r"\'f3",
> or in bytes: 92, 39,102, 51

> so I think I need a way to translate that into the string r"\xf3"
> but I can't find a way to accomplish that.
> 
> a
> Any suggestions are very welcome.

You could try something along these lines:

>>> s = r"\'f3"
>>> s = s.replace("\\'", "\\x")
>>> u = s.decode('unicode-escape')
>>> u
u'\xf3'

However, this assumes Latin-1 codes being using by the RTF
text.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Feb 01 2010)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Feb  1 13:56:16 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:56:16 -0500
Subject: create a string of variable lenght
In-Reply-To: <4b6708a3$0$1132$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>
References: <4b65729b$0$1126$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
	<olag37-g7r.ln1@spamfence.net>
	<4b660056$0$1131$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
	<mailman.1701.1264985668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6708a3$0$1132$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002011056w239b15a4k383b04c2e813144e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Tracubik <affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com> wrote:
> Il Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:54:17 -0500, Benjamin Kaplan ha scritto:
>
>> First of all, if you haven't read this before, please do. It will make
>> this much clearer.
>> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html
>
> i'm reading it right now, thanks :-)
>
> [cut]
>
>> Solution to your problem: in addition to keeping the #-*- coding ...
>> line, go with G?nther's advice and use Unicode strings.
>
> that is: always use the "u" operator (i.e. my_name = u"Nico"), right?
>
> Ciao,
> Nico
>


Short answer: yes.

Slightly longer explanation for future reference: This is true for
Python 2 but not Python 3. One of the big changes in Python 3 is that
strings are Unicode by default because you're not the only one who
runs into this problem. So in Python 3, just writing 'Nico' will make
a Unicode string and you have to explicitly declare b'Nico' if you
want to look at it as a series of bytes.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 14:00:38 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:00:38 -0300
Subject: Python-list Digest, Vol 77, Issue 7 *
References: <4755336292109192622@unknownmsgid>
	<aa762f631002010226q25956058se80c49560e652400@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gprcnfx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:26:13 -0300, Rohit Roger$ <rohitraj007 at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> Help for datetime module
>
> Source code is :
> from datetime import datetime
> d = datetime(datetime.now().year, datetime.now().month,  
> datetime.now().day, 11, 59, 0 )
> print d

And your problem is...?
This is what I get:
py> print d
2010-02-01 11:59:00

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Feb  1 14:52:46 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:52:46 +0100
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7sopofFg53U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> So.....I'm wondering if there is any interest in an apply() built-in
> function that would work like map() does in 2.x (calls the function
> with each value returned by the iterator) but return nothing.  Maybe
> "apply" isn't the best name; it's just the first one that occurred to
> me.
>
> Or is this just silly and should I forget about it?

IMHO - yes. Looking up names is what python does all the time, trying to 
microoptimize that away is silly. It is only justfied if you have 
extremely timing-critical code.

And then, all you need to do is to say


def whatever():
   _function = function
   for value in values:
       _function(value)

which will reduce lookup-time, as _function is found in locals() rather 
than globals().

And any function that does something worthy will dwarf the second 
namespace-lookup I'd say.

Diez



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:05:55 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:05:55 +0000
Subject: Iterating over a function call
References: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>

Gerald Britton <gerald.britton at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi -- I have many sections of code like this:
>
>     for value in value_iterator:
>          value_function(value)
>
> I noticed that this does two things I don't like:
>
> 1. looks up "value_function" and "value" for each iteration, but
> "value_function" doesn't change.
> 2. side effect of (maybe) leaking the iterator variable "value" into
> the code following the loop (if the iterator is not empty).
>
> I can take care of 2 by explicitly deleting the variable at the end:
>
>    del value
>
> but I'd probably forget to do that sometimes.  I then realized that,
> in the 2.x series, I can accomplish the same thing with:
>
>     map(value_function, value_iterator)
>
> and avoid both problems BUT map() returns a list which is never used.
> Not a big deal for small iterables, I guess, but it seems messy.  Upon
> conversion to 3.x I have to explicitly list-ify it:
>
>     list(map(value_function, value_iterator))
>
> which works but again the list returned is never used (extra work) and
> has to be gc'd I suppose (extra memory).
>
> It's easy to make a little function to take care of this (2.x):
>
>     from itertools import imap
>     def apply(function, iterable):
>         for item in imap(function, iterable):
>             pass
>
> then later:
>
>    apply(value_function, value_iterator)
>
> or something similar thing in 3.x, but that just adds an additional
> function def that I have to include whenever I want to do something
> like this.
>

You have itertools.consume which is close to what you want:

    consume(imap(func, iterable)) # 2.x

    consume(map(func, iterable)) # 3.x

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From rolf.oltmans at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:06:09 2010
From: rolf.oltmans at gmail.com (Oltmans)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:06:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
Message-ID: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hello Python gurus,

I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below

import new
import unittest

class test(unittest.TestCase):
    def test_first(self):
        print 'first test'
    def test_second(self):
        print 'second test'
    def test_third(self):
        print 'third test'

class tee(unittest.TestCase):
    pass

and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class. So I'm trying to
do something like

if __name__=="__main__":
    for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
        if name.find('test_')!= -1:
            tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)

after doing above when I run this statement
print dirs(tee)
I don't see test_first(), test_second() and test_third() attached to
class 'tee'. Any ideas, on how can I attach methods of class 'test' to
class 'tee' dynamically? Any help is highly appreciated.

Many thanks and I look forward to any help.


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:19:52 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:19:52 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002011219h579fb374vdfe728080ea561b1@mail.gmail.com>

>> I also think the PEP is a great idea and proposes a solution to a real
>> problem. But I also hear the 'directory clutter' argument and I'm really
>> concerned too, having all these extra directories around (and quite a
>> large number of them indeed!).
>
> Keep in mind that if you don't explicitly ask for the proposed feature,
> you won't see any change at all. You need to run Python with the -R
> switch, or set an environment variable. The average developer won't see
> any clutter at all unless she is explicitly supporting multiple versions.
>
>
>
>> How about this scheme:
>>
>> 1. install python source files to a shared (among python installations)
>> location /this/is/shared
>> 2. when python X.Y imports a source file from /this/is/shared it will
>> create pyc files in its private area /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/
>
> $ touch /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/STEVEN
> touch: cannot touch `/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/STEVEN': Permission
> denied
>
> There's your first problem: most users don't have write-access to the
> private area.

True, I haven't thought about that (I should have though).

> When you install a package, you normally do so as root, and
> it all works. When you import a module and it gets compiled as a .pyc
> file, you're generally running as a regular user.
>
>
>> Time comparison would be between /this/is/shared/x.py and
>> /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/x.pyc, for instance.
>
> I don't quite understand what you mean by "time comparison".

I meant the comparison of timestamps on .py and .pyc files in order to
determine which is newer and if a recompilation should take place or
not.

> [...]
>> In /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages there would be only pyc files with
>> magic number matching python X.Y.
>
> Personally, I think it is a terribly idea to keep the source file and
> byte code file in such radically different places. They should be kept
> together. What you call "clutter" I call having the files that belong
> together kept together.

I see why you think so, it's reasonable, however there is compelling
argument, I think, for the opposite view: namely to keep things
separate. An average developer definitely wants easy access to .py
files. However I see no good reason for having access to .pyc files. I
for one have never inspected a .pyc file. Why would you want to have a
.pyc file at hand?

If we don't really want to have .pyc files in convenient locations
because we (almost) never want to access them really, then I'd say
it's a good idea to keep them totally separate and so make don't get
in the way.

>> So, basically nothing would change only the location of py and pyc files
>> would be different from current behavior, but the same algorithm would
>> be run to determine which one to load, when to create a pyc file, when
>> to ignore the old one, etc.
>
> What happens when there is a .pyc file in the same location as the .py
> file? Because it *will* happen. Does it get ignored, or does it take
> precedence over the site specific file?
>
> Given:
>
>     ./module.pyc
>     /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/module.pyc
>
> and you execute "import module", which gets used? Note that in this
> situation, there may or may not be a module.py file.
>
>
>> What would be wrong with this setup?
>
> Consider:
>
>     ./module.py
>     ./package/module.py
>
> Under your suggestion, both of these will compile to
>
>     /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages/module.pyc

I see the problems with my suggestion. However it would be great if in
some other way the .pyc files could be kept out of the way. Granted, I
don't have a good proposal for this.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 15:25:49 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:25:49 -0800
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
In-Reply-To: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002011225l6155069alb2d90f6d771a70df@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Oltmans <rolf.oltmans at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Python gurus,
>
> I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
> Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below
>
> import new
> import unittest
>
> class test(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ?def test_first(self):
> ? ? ? ?print 'first test'
> ? ?def test_second(self):
> ? ? ? ?print 'second test'
> ? ?def test_third(self):
> ? ? ? ?print 'third test'
>
> class tee(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ?pass
>
> and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
> test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class. So I'm trying to
> do something like
>
> if __name__=="__main__":
> ? ?for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
> ? ? ? ?if name.find('test_')!= -1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)

This ends up repeatedly assigning to the attribute "name" of tee; if
you check dir(tee), you'll see the string "name" as an entry. It does
*not* assign to the attribute named by the string in the variable
`name`.
You want setattr(): http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#setattr
Assuming the rest of your code chunk is correct:

setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:44:18 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:44:18 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002011244n21b6f6a8g27051d2cbaa14ecf@mail.gmail.com>

[snip[

> You have itertools.consume which is close to what you want:
>
> ? ?consume(imap(func, iterable)) # 2.x
>
> ? ?consume(map(func, iterable)) # 3.x
>
> HTH

It does! Though in my case this is simpler:

    deque(imap(func, iterable), 0)

since the recipe for consume just calls deque anyway when you want to
eat up the rest of the iterable.  It also solves the iterator-variable
leakage problem and is only a wee bit slower than a conventional
for-loop.

>
> --
> Arnaud
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:45:03 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:45:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <95aceacf-4282-4ddb-b7a2-d9a71d3f8d00@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 12:06?pm, Oltmans <rolf.oltm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Python gurus,
>
> I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
> Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below
>
> import new
> import unittest
>
> class test(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ? def test_first(self):
> ? ? ? ? print 'first test'
> ? ? def test_second(self):
> ? ? ? ? print 'second test'
> ? ? def test_third(self):
> ? ? ? ? print 'third test'
>
> class tee(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ? pass
>
> and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
> test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class.


Simplest way:

class tee(test):
    pass


To do it dynamically the following might work:

class tee(unittest.TestCase):
    pass

tee.__bases__ = (test,)
tee.__bases__ = (test2,) # dynamically reassign base


> So I'm trying to
> do something like
>
> if __name__=="__main__":
> ? ? for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
> ? ? ? ? if name.find('test_')!= -1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)
>
> after doing above when I run this statement
> print dirs(tee)
> I don't see test_first(), test_second() and test_third() attached to
> class 'tee'. Any ideas, on how can I attach methods of class 'test' to
> class 'tee' dynamically? Any help is highly appreciated.

If you want to do it this way--and I recommend regular inheritance if
you can--this is how:

for x in dir(test):  # or inspect.getmembers
    if x.startswith('test_'):
        method = getattr(test,x)
        function = method.im_func
        setattr(tee,x,function)

The business with method.im_func is because in Python 2.x the getattr
on a class will actually returns an unbound method, so you have to get
at the actual function object with im_func.  In Python 3 this is not
necessary.

Carl Banks


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:50:36 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:50:36 -0500
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002011225l6155069alb2d90f6d771a70df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c1002011225l6155069alb2d90f6d771a70df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002011250q705f881aid1c7f3246ebb217a@mail.gmail.com>

Or you could just do a mixin:

tee.__class__.__bases__ = (test,) +  tee.__class__.__bases__


On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Oltmans <rolf.oltmans at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Python gurus,
>>
>> I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
>> Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below
>>
>> import new
>> import unittest
>>
>> class test(unittest.TestCase):
>> ? ?def test_first(self):
>> ? ? ? ?print 'first test'
>> ? ?def test_second(self):
>> ? ? ? ?print 'second test'
>> ? ?def test_third(self):
>> ? ? ? ?print 'third test'
>>
>> class tee(unittest.TestCase):
>> ? ?pass
>>
>> and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
>> test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class. So I'm trying to
>> do something like
>>
>> if __name__=="__main__":
>> ? ?for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
>> ? ? ? ?if name.find('test_')!= -1:
>> ? ? ? ? ? ?tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)
>
> This ends up repeatedly assigning to the attribute "name" of tee; if
> you check dir(tee), you'll see the string "name" as an entry. It does
> *not* assign to the attribute named by the string in the variable
> `name`.
> You want setattr(): http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#setattr
> Assuming the rest of your code chunk is correct:
>
> setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From nad at acm.org  Mon Feb  1 15:55:17 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:55:17 -0800
Subject: get error install MySQLdb on Mac OS X
References: <30c0946e-fa6a-4a54-930c-1962d167fffe@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<ee523956-2e53-4efb-8c9e-1cd7ad82993b@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<2be17362-8a54-4a04-9671-0a0ff7266e33@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-CE9AB4.12551701022010@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<2be17362-8a54-4a04-9671-0a0ff7266e33 at k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
 "PS.OHM" <ps.ohms at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 29, 5:02?am, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 28, 12:53?pm, "PS.OHM" <ps.o... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I havegetsomeerrorwhen i install MySQLdb on Mac OS X
> >
> > > after i key command $python setup.py build

The build of MySQLdb is not finding the MySQL client database libraries.  
You need to install them first and, for the python you are using, you 
need a version that includes 32-bit.  The easiest options are to 
download them from mysql.com or, if you are comfortable with MacPorts, I 
would recommend installing them from there.

    sudo port install mysql5

In fact, with MacPorts you can install a complete Python 2.6.4, MySQLdb, 
and MySQL libraries with just one command.  With the MacPorts base 
installed, this should do it:

    sudo port install py26-mysql

You might need to tweak the variants of some of the packages if you want 
32-bit only, etc, depending on what version of OS X you're running on.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From rolf.oltmans at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 15:55:38 2010
From: rolf.oltmans at gmail.com (Oltmans)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:55:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Thank you for your help, Chris. Looks like I can now attach methods to
class 'tee'. However, after attaching methods to 'tee' when I try to
run them using suite.run() I don't see any of the methods running, I'm
sorry but I've no clue what's failing this. Any insights will be
highly appreciated. Here is the sample code
filename: check.py
---
import inspect
import unittest


class result(unittest.TestResult):

    def addSuccess(self,test):
        print str(test) + ' succeeded'
    def addError(self,test,err):
        print 'An error occured while running the test ' + str(test) +
' and error is = ' + str(err)
    def addFailure(self,test,err):
        print str(test) + " failed with an error =" + str(err)



class test(unittest.TestCase):
    def test_first(self):
        print 'first test'
    def test_second(self):
        print 'second test'
    def test_third(self):
        print 'third test'

import new
class tee(unittest.TestCase):
    pass

if __name__=="__main__":
    r = result()
    for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
        if name.find('test_')!= -1:

            setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))

    suite = unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromName('check.tee')
    suite.run(r)
---

Then line suite.run(r) should have run the methods that we just
attached, but it's not. I must be missing something here. Please
enlighten me.

Thanks.
On Feb 2, 1:25?am, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Oltmans <rolf.oltm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello Python gurus,
>
> > I'm quite new when it comes to Python so I will appreciate any help.
> > Here is what I'm trying to do. I've two classes like below
>
> > import new
> > import unittest
>
> > class test(unittest.TestCase):
> > ? ?def test_first(self):
> > ? ? ? ?print 'first test'
> > ? ?def test_second(self):
> > ? ? ? ?print 'second test'
> > ? ?def test_third(self):
> > ? ? ? ?print 'third test'
>
> > class tee(unittest.TestCase):
> > ? ?pass
>
> > and I want to attach all test methods of 'test'(i.e. test_first(),
> > test_second() and test_third()) class to 'tee' class. So I'm trying to
> > do something like
>
> > if __name__=="__main__":
> > ? ?for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
> > ? ? ? ?if name.find('test_')!= -1:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?tee.name = new.instancemethod(func,None,tee)
>
> This ends up repeatedly assigning to the attribute "name" of tee; if
> you check dir(tee), you'll see the string "name" as an entry. It does
> *not* assign to the attribute named by the string in the variable
> `name`.
> You want setattr():http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#setattr
> Assuming the rest of your code chunk is correct:
>
> setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  1 15:58:19 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:58:19 -0500
Subject: libpcap and python
In-Reply-To: <1cbd6f831002010447w4a2ab26dve66206919e99391@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1cbd6f831002010447w4a2ab26dve66206919e99391@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hk7f94$q6k$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/1/2010 7:47 AM, Mag Gam wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I used tcpdump to capture data on my network. I would like to analyze
> the data using python -- currently using ethereal and wireshark.
>
> I would like to get certain type of packets (I can get the hex code
> for them), what is the best way to do this? Lets say I want to capture
> all events of `ping localhost`

The following is pretty straightforward.

def process(dump, wanted, func):
   for packet in dump:
     if packet_type(packet) == wanted:
       func(packet)

Perhaps you can ask a more specific question.

Terry Jan Reedy



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  1 16:14:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:14:51 -0500
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
In-Reply-To: <6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk7g8r$tet$1@ger.gmane.org>

Oltmans wrote:
> Thank you for your help, Chris. Looks like I can now attach methods to
> class 'tee'. However, after attaching methods to 'tee' when I try to
> run them using suite.run() I don't see any of the methods running, I'm
> sorry but I've no clue what's failing this. Any insights will be
> highly appreciated. Here is the sample code
> filename: check.py
> ---
> import inspect
> import unittest
> 
> 
> class result(unittest.TestResult):
> 
>     def addSuccess(self,test):
>         print str(test) + ' succeeded'
>     def addError(self,test,err):
>         print 'An error occured while running the test ' + str(test) +
> ' and error is = ' + str(err)
>     def addFailure(self,test,err):
>         print str(test) + " failed with an error =" + str(err)
> 
> 
> 
> class test(unittest.TestCase):
>     def test_first(self):
>         print 'first test'
>     def test_second(self):
>         print 'second test'
>     def test_third(self):
>         print 'third test'
> 
> import new
> class tee(unittest.TestCase):
>     pass
> 
> if __name__=="__main__":
>     r = result()
>     for name,func in inspect.getmembers(test,inspect.ismethod):
>         if name.find('test_')!= -1:
> 
>             setattr(tee, name, new.instancemethod(func,None,tee))
> 
>     suite = unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromName('check.tee')
>     suite.run(r)
> ---
> 
> Then line suite.run(r) should have run the methods that we just
> attached, but it's not. I must be missing something here. Please
> enlighten me.
> 
Should not tee be subclassing test, not unittest.TestCase?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From info at feedmagnet.com  Mon Feb  1 16:15:05 2010
From: info at feedmagnet.com (Jason)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:15:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CheddarGetter module for Python - easy recurring billing
Message-ID: <972aa441-9a27-41ef-9c35-38ad5c141b33@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

We just released pychedder, an open source module for integrating
CheddarGetter with Python (and Django):

http://www.feedmagnet.com/blog/cheddargetter-for-python-and-django/

Anyone who's built commercial web app knows that payment processing
can be one of the toughest pieces to put in place - and it can
distract you from working on the core functionality of your app.
CheddarGetter is a web service that abstracts the entire process of
managing credit cards, processing transactions on a recurring basis,
and even more complex setups like free trials, setup fees, and
overage
charges.

We're using CheddarGetter for FeedMagnet.com and we thought the Python
community in general could benefit from the module we wrote to
interact with it. More just just a Python wrapper for CheddarGetter,
pycheddar gives you class objects that work a lot like Django models,
making the whole experience of integrating with CheddarGetter just a
little more awesome and Pythonic.

We're a week or two away from putting pycheddar into production on
FeedMagnet, but we felt like it was close enough that others could
start using it. We also published it to PyPi so you can easy_install
pycheddar and get the latest version (currently 0.9). Hope others can
benefit from it!

- Jason


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  1 16:16:47 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Feb 2010 13:16:47 -0800
Subject: starting a thread in a nother thread
References: <mailman.1480.1264597591.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.1484.1264602223.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b604df9$0$6723$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<4b60a661$0$1598$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <hk7gbv$p2p$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b60a661$0$1598$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net>,
John Nagle  <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
>
>If a C package called from Python crashes, the package is defective.
>Nothing you can do from Python should be able to cause a segmentation
>fault.

...unless you use ctypes.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From gobladoome at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 16:21:56 2010
From: gobladoome at gmail.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:21:56 +1300
Subject: Problems embedding python 2.6 in C++
Message-ID: <5089497e1002011321h5328ed68y4bfab055f627ba74@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 code to add embedded python
scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls do
not work as expected.

The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it was
GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
(PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)

Here's the error I'm getting:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
get_giftcard_purchase_value
    details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
extract_transaction_details_section
    for line in base_details:
TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found

base_details is a list of strings (I can just define it like
'base_details=["1","2","3"...]' on the line previous) and the code runs fine
when run from standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine from
the embedded app.

I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor

Anyone else had issues of this kind? My next try will be to use
sub-interpreters per thread.

Thanks,
Paul.
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 16:25:41 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:25:41 -0300
Subject: Function name unchanged in error message
References: <fe938b2c-8a46-4db3-b078-f5f0845c1aa9@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<c00fc2cb-6a19-438c-b451-3bbf3c9330b0@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1625.1264797443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk0u3d$392$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gwg3wox6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:28:19 -0300, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>  
escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:09:40 -0300, Michele Simionato
>> <michele.simionato at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>> On Jan 29, 2:30 pm, andrew cooke <and... at acooke.org> wrote:

>>>> Is there any way to change the name of the function in an error
>>>> message?  In the example below I'd like the error to refer to bar(),
>>>> for example (the motivation is related function decorators - I'd like
>>>> the wrapper function to give the same name)
>>>
>>> Use the decorator module which does the right thing:
>>> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/decorator
>>
>> The decorator module is a very fine addition to anyone's tool set -- but
>> in this case it is enough to use the wraps() function from the functools
>> standard module.
>
> I don't know about the decorator module, but functools.wraps() doesn't
> affect the error message:

It seems I misunderstood the original request and got it backwards - but  
then I have to question the usefulness of doing so. If an error happens in  
the "decorating" function (as opposed to inside the function being  
decorated) I'd like the error to be reported as such, in the "decorating"  
function (else tracebacks and line numbers would be lying).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jakecjacobson at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 16:46:53 2010
From: jakecjacobson at gmail.com (jakecjacobson)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:46:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Processing XML File
References: <6bac2d7b-509d-4f92-912f-5e8dc68c3f30@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6335f3$0$6573$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<mailman.1621.1264793513.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4b633a07$0$6582$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <d34d2757-22ce-4cb5-940a-e029d9c0e4fd@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 29, 2:41?pm, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Sells, Fred, 29.01.2010 20:31:
>
> > Google is your friend. ?Elementtree is one of the better documented
> > IMHO, but there are many modules to do this.
>
> Unless the OP provides some more information, "do this" is rather
> underdefined. And sending someone off to Google who is just learning the
> basics of Python and XML and trying to solve a very specific problem with
> them is not exactly the spirit I'm used to in this newsgroup.
>
> Stefan

Just want to thank everyone for their posts.  I got it working after I
discovered a name space issue with this code.

xmlDoc = libxml2.parseDoc(guts)
# Ignore namespace and just get the Resource
resourceNodes = xmlDoc.xpathEval('//*[local-name()="Resource"]')
for rNode in resourceNodes:
    print rNode


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb  1 17:04:01 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:04:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: For loop searching takes too long!
References: <6ea6ebda-43af-4a77-a17e-0930cdd13258@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<bf8bbf55-7ed6-4a50-9c5b-b185bc0c2201@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<03738ee7$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <96e06a43-2197-4e93-9837-3c4b461985e0@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 29, 7:07?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 14:49:06 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > On Jan 28, 3:52?pm, elsa <kerensael... at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I've got a problem with my program, in that the code just takes too
> >> long to run. Here's what I'm doing. If anyone has any tips, they'd be
> >> much appreciated!
>
> > First of all, don't play with large lists. Large lists have a tendency
> > to grow larger over time, until they get absurdly large.
>
> > If you're dealing with a long list, work with it like you'd work with a
> > file. If you need random access, stick it in some form of database, such
> > as BDB or PostgreSQL. If you need an index, stick it in some form of DB.
> > Eventually, large lists end up like that anyway. Don't fool yourself
> > early on---prepare for the worst and solve the problems of tomorrow
> > today.
>
> Talk about premature optimization. The OP probably has a few hundreds of
> thousands of items, millions at most, which is trivial on a modern PC.
> Your way of thinking is what has led to Firefox using a database to
> manage a few thousand bookmarks and cookies, which in turn leads to
> consistent data corruption problems. (I've been keeping note, and so far
> my installation of Firefox 3 has had database corruption at startup one
> time out of five.)
>

I think there's a difference between writing your code so that you
have the option of using a database, or a flat file, or any other type
of serial data source, and actually using a database (or whatever.)

I prefer to write my code so that I don't have to re-write it 6 months
later.

Having worked with datasets that are truly enormous, whenever I see a
list that is unbounded (as this appears to be), I freak out because
unbounded can be a really, really big number. Might as well write
software that works for the truly enormous case and the really large
case and be done with it once and for all.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 17:11:26 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:11:26 -0300
Subject: OT: Instant Messenger Clients
References: <4dc0cfea1001311315u3494ad6bk792327d05447c96d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gylctfx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:15:34 -0300, Victor Subervi  
<victorsubervi at gmail.com> escribi?:

> I need to record my IM conversations. I'm using Gmal's IM client and I  
> can't
> figure out how to do it, nor do I find any help googling it.

Hard to believe... <http://www.google.com/talk/chathistory.html>

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb  1 17:13:38 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:13:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 30, 8:43?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:29:05 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > Python is much, much cleaner. I don't know how anyone can honestly say
> > Ruby is cleaner than Python.
>
> I'm not familiar with Ruby, but most languages are cleaner than Python
> once you get beyond the "10-minute introduction" stage.
>

Probably too little, too late (haven't read all of the replies yet...)

I judge a language's simplicity by how long it takes to explain the
complete language. That is, what minimal set of documentation do you
need to describe all of the language? With a handful of statements,
and a very short list of operators, Python beats out every language in
the Algol family that I know of.

I can think of only one language (or rather, a class of languages)
that can every hope to be shorter than Python. I doubt you've heard of
it based on your comments, but I suggest you look into it.
Unfortunately, to fully appreciate that language, you're going to have
to study a textbook called "SICP". At the end of that textbook, you
are blessed to not only see but understand the complete compiler for
the language, in the language itself.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 17:27:46 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:27:46 -0300
Subject: whassup? builtins? python3000? Naah can't be right?
References: <799ea994-d00f-485c-9164-ed4b66e750a5@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gzckynx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:17:04 -0300, _wolf <wolfgang.lipp at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> dear pythoneers,
>
> i would be very gladly accept any commentaries about what this
> sentence, gleaned from  
> http://celabs.com/python-3.1/reference/executionmodel.html,
> is meant to mean, or why gods have decided this is the way to go. i
> anticipate this guy named Kay Schluehr will have a say on that, or
> maybe even the BDFL will care to pronounce ``__builtins__`` the
> correct way to his fallovers, followers, and fellownerds::
>
>   The built-in namespace associated with the execution of
>   a code block is actually found by looking up the name
>   __builtins__ in its global namespace; this should be a
>   dictionary or a module (in the latter case the module?s
>   dictionary is used). By default, when in the __main__
>   module, __builtins__ is the built-in module builtins;
>   when in any other module, __builtins__ is an alias for
>   the dictionary of the builtins module itself.
>   __builtins__ can be set to a user-created dictionary to
>   create a weak form of restricted execution.

Short answer: use `import builtins` (spelled __builtin__, no 's' and  
double underscores, in Python 2.x) to access the module containing the  
predefined (built-in) objects.

Everything else is an implementation detail.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb  1 17:28:28 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:28:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 31, 3:01?am, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 30, 10:43?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> > That's also true for most functional languages, e.g. Haskell and ML, as
> > well as e.g. Tcl and most shells. Why require "f(x)" or "(f x)" if "f x"
> > will suffice?
>
> yuck! wrapping the arg list with parenthesis (python way) makes the
> most sense. Its to easy to misread somthing like this
>
> onetwothree four five six
>
> onetwothree(four, five, six) #ahhh... plain english.

In Lisp-ish languages, you have a list of stuff that represents a
function call:

 (a b c d)

means: Call "a" with values (b, c, d)

While this certainly doesn't agree with what you learned in Algebra,
it is a reasonable syntax that exposes the code-data duality of
programs. There is, however, one fatal flaw. Why is the first element
so different than the rest? This is inconsistent with what people who
are unfamiliar with the language would expect. Indeed, in teaching
Lisp, learners have to be reminded about how the evaluator looks at
lists and processes them.

I would expect a clear, simple language to have exactly one way to
call a function. This calling notation would clearly distinguish
between the function and its parameters. There are quite a few
options, and it turns out that "function(arg, arg, arg)" is a really
good compromise.

One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
need even more syntax to do so. In perl:

 foo();       # Call 'foo' with no args.
 $bar = foo;  # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
 $bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
              # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
 $bar->()     # Call whatever '$bar' is pointing at with no args

Compare with python:

 foo()       # Call 'foo' with no args.
 bar = foo() # 'bar' is now pointing to whatever 'foo()' returned
 bar = foo   # 'bar' is now pointing to the same thing 'foo' points to
 bar()       # Call 'bar' with no args

One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
function calls with references.

Note that the Algebra notation of functions allows for an obvious,
simple way to refer to functions without calling them, leading to
syntax such as "f o g (x)" and more.


From astan.chee at al.com.au  Mon Feb  1 17:34:38 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:34:38 +1100
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
Message-ID: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>

Hi,
I have xml files that I want to convert to a hash/dict and then further 
placed in a wx CustomTreeCtrl based on the structure. The problem I am 
having now is that the XML file is very unusual and there aren't any 
unique identifiers to be put in a dict and because there are no unique 
variables, finding the value of it from a CustromTreeCtrl is abit tricky.
I would appreciate any help or links to projects similar to this.
Thanks

The XML file looks something like this:
<doc>
<rm:statsDoc xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
    <stats name="position1" description="Calculation statistics" 
kind="position">
    <stats name="time" description="Timing summary" kind="section">
        <string name="timersNote" description="Note:">This is the note 
on calculation times</string>
        <stats name="timers" kind="timers">

        <timer name="totaltime" description="Total time">
            <elapsed>609.081574</elapsed>
            <user>2531.972081</user>
            <system>65.119100</system>
        </timer>
        <timer name="partialTimer" description="Gravitational Displacement">
            <elapsed>1772.011230</elapsed>
        </timer>
        <stats name="subTimers" description="All non-phased time" 
kind="timers">
            <timer name="subATimer" description="Phase time A">
            <elapsed>72.418861</elapsed>
            </timer>

            <timer name="subBTimer" description="Phase time B">
            <elapsed>28.285192</elapsed>
            </timer>
            <timer name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
            <elapsed>0.000</elapsed>
            </timer>
        </stats>
        <timer name="endTime" description="End">
            <elapsed>607.432373</elapsed>
        </timer>
        </stats>
    </stats>
    <stats name="space" description="Space usage summary" kind="section">
        <stats name="systemSpace" description="System Space">
        <memory name="heapSpace" description="Total Space">
            <peak>4833280000</peak>

            <current>4833280000</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="spaceResidentSize" description="Space resident size">
            <peak>4182777856</peak>
            <current>4182777856</current>
        </memory>
        <int name="pageMem">1</int>

        <int name="memReclaims">1943498</int>
        <int name="memSwaps">0</int>
        </stats>
        <stats name="subsystems" kind="memstats">
        <memory name="geoSpace" description="Geo-Space">
            <peak>1640100156</peak>
            <current>411307840</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="gridSpace" description="Grid-Space">
            <peak>709596712</peak>
            <current>1406752</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
            <peak>737720720</peak>
            <current>0</current>
        </memory>
                <memory name="endTime" description="End">
            <peak>607.432373</peak>
        </memory>
        </stats>
            <memory name="subsystemSpace" description="Subsystem space 
total">
        <peak>5164184694</peak>
        <current>2054715622</current>
        </memory>

    </stats>
    </stats>
</rm:statsDoc>
</doc>



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb  1 17:35:57 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 31, 12:43?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> If it was common-place to use Curried functions and partial application in
> Python, you'd probably prefer "f a b c" to "f(a)(b)(c)" as well.
>

That's just the point. It isn't common to play with curried functions
or monads or anything like that in computer science today. Yes,
Haskell exists, and is a great experiment in how such a language could
actually work. But at the same time, you have to have a brain the size
of the titanic to contain all the little details about the language
before you could write any large-scale application.

Meanwhile, Python's syntax and language is simple and clean, and
provides tremendous expressiveness without getting in the way of the
programmer.

Comparing Python's syntax to Haskell's syntax, Python is simpler.
Comparing what Python can do to what Haskell can do, Haskell is much
faster at certain tasks and allows the expression of certain things
that are difficult to express in Python. But at the end of the day,
the difference really doesn't matter that much.

Now, compare Python versus Language X along the same lines, and the
end result is that (a) Python is extraordinarily more simple than
Langauge X, and (b) Python is comparable in expressiveness to Language
X. That's the #1 reason why I like Python, and why saying Ruby and
Python are similar isn't correct.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 17:36:36 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:36:36 -0300
Subject: ftp.storlines error
References: <24ffaab0-f319-4019-97cf-56a7531e3eef@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7gzraydx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:07:44 -0300, Mik0b0 <newssw at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Good day/night/etc.
> I am rather a newb in Python (learning Python 3). I am trying to
> create a small script for FTP file uploads  on my home network. The
> script looks like this:
>
> from ftplib import FTP
> ftp=FTP('10.0.0.1')
> ftp.login('mike','*****')
> directory='/var/www/blabla/'
> ftp.cwd(directory)
> ftp.retrlines('LIST')
> print('<- - - - - - - - - >')
> file_to_change='test'
> file=1
> file=open(file_to_change,'w')
> text='test'
> file.write(text)
> ftp.storlines('STOR ' + file_to_change,file)
> ftp.retrlines('LIST')
> file.close()
>
> The output is like this:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "ftp.py", line 13, in <module>
>     ftp.storlines('STOR ' + file_to_change,i)
>   File "/usr/lib/python3.1/ftplib.py", line 474, in storlines
>     buf = fp.readline()
> IOError: not readable

For the ftp client to be able to read and upload the file, it must have  
been opened for reading. But you opened it with mode 'w' a few lines above.
A quick and dirty way would be to close the file right after  
file.write(...) and re-open it with mode 'r':

   ...
   file.write(text)
   file.close()
   file = open(file_to_change,'r')
   ftp.storlines(...)

But I'd separate file-creation from file-uploading. When it's time to  
upload the file, assume it already exists and has the desired contents  
(because it has already been created earlier by the same script, or  
perhaps by some other process), so you just have to open it with mode 'r'.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 17:39:09 2010
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:39:09 +0000
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a1002011439q2db58f2ai42fb9c0c2bc19d23@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/1 Gerald Britton <gerald.britton at gmail.com>:
> Hi -- I have many sections of code like this:
>
> ? ?for value in value_iterator:
> ? ? ? ? value_function(value)
>
> I noticed that this does two things I don't like:
>...
> --
> Gerald Britton
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Hi,
just to add to the collection of possible approaches (personally, I
find the straightforward versions fine, given the task ... )
If you know, that the called function (used for side effect in any
case) doesn't return any "true" value, you could use
any(...) over a generator expression or imap
(or, inversely, all(...) if there are "true" returns all the time).

Not that it improves clarity, but something like a dummy
reduce(lambda x, y: None, <genexp>, None) might (kind of) work for
arbitrary returns. Both variants only have a redundant boolean or None
value.
vbr


From cjblaine at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 17:44:09 2010
From: cjblaine at gmail.com (cjblaine)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:44:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
Message-ID: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Hey everyone, this has been driving me crazy for long enough now that
I'm motivated to post and find an answer.

Before I pose my question, let me state that using LD_LIBRARY_PATH is
not the answer :)

We have things installed in odd places, such as very specific versions
of libraries to link against, etc.

When I build a module (let's say PyGreSQL for instance) via python
setup.py build, the link part is including a proper -L argument (-L/
some/weird/lib because /some/weird/bin was in PATH), but is omitting
the additional needed runtime linker arguments.

For Solaris that's -R/some/weird/lib

For Linux that's -Xlinker -rpath -Xlinker /some/weird/lib

Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?

A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):

% python setup.py build
...
gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
%


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  1 17:56:23 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:56:23 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hk7m6i$n4h$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/1/2010 11:50 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
> Hi -- I have many sections of code like this:
>
>      for value in value_iterator:
>           value_function(value)
>
> I noticed that this does two things I don't like:
>
> 1. looks up "value_function" and "value" for each iteration, but
> "value_function" doesn't change.

What you mean by 'looks up'? And why are you bothered by normal Python 
expression evaluation? Within a function, the 'look_up' is a fast 
LOAD_FAST instruction.

> 2. side effect of (maybe) leaking the iterator variable "value" into
> the code following the loop (if the iterator is not empty).

So? it is sometime useful.
>
> I can take care of 2 by explicitly deleting the variable at the end:
>
>     del value
>
> but I'd probably forget to do that sometimes.

So? If having 'value' bound breaks your subsequent code, I consider it 
buggy.

   I then realized that,
> in the 2.x series, I can accomplish the same thing with:
>
>      map(value_function, value_iterator)
>
> and avoid both problems BUT map() returns a list which is never used.
> Not a big deal for small iterables, I guess, but it seems messy.  Upon
> conversion to 3.x I have to explicitly list-ify it:
>
>      list(map(value_function, value_iterator))
>
> which works but again the list returned is never used (extra work) and
> has to be gc'd I suppose (extra memory).
>
> It's easy to make a little function to take care of this (2.x):
>
>      from itertools import imap
>      def apply(function, iterable):
>          for item in imap(function, iterable):
>              pass

collections.deque(imap(function, iterable), maxlen=0)
will do nearly the same and may be faster.

> then later:
>
>     apply(value_function, value_iterator)
>
> or something similar thing in 3.x, but that just adds an additional
> function def that I have to include whenever I want to do something
> like this.
>
> So.....I'm wondering if there is any interest in an apply() built-in
> function that would work like map() does in 2.x (calls the function
> with each value returned by the iterator) but return nothing.  Maybe
> "apply" isn't the best name; it's just the first one that occurred to
> me.
>
> Or is this just silly and should I forget about it?

In my opinion, forget about it.

Terry Jan Reedy



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 17:59:32 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:59:32 -0300
Subject: Problems embedding python 2.6 in C++
References: <5089497e1002011321h5328ed68y4bfab055f627ba74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7g0tijgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:21:56 -0300, Paul <gobladoome at gmail.com> escribi?:

> I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 code to add embedded python
> scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls  
> do
> not work as expected.
>
> The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it  
> was
> GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
> PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
> (PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)
>
> Here's the error I'm getting:
>
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
> get_giftcard_purchase_value
>     details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
>   File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
> extract_transaction_details_section
>     for line in base_details:
> TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found
>
> base_details is a list of strings (I can just define it like
> 'base_details=["1","2","3"...]' on the line previous) and the code runs  
> fine
> when run from standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine  
> from
> the embedded app.
> I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
> after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
> constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor

Usually, errors in reference count handling prevent objects from being  
destroyed (a memory leak) or generate a GPF when accessing an  
now-inexistent object. In principle I'd look elsewhere.

> Anyone else had issues of this kind?

Hard to tell without more info. base_details is built in C++ code? Is it  
actually a list, or a subclass defined by you?
A common error is to forget to check *every* API function call for errors,  
so errors get unnoticed for a while but are reported on the next check,  
which may happen in an entirely unrelated function.

> My next try will be to use
> sub-interpreters per thread.

I would not do that - I'd try to *simplify* the code to test, not make it  
more complicated.
Does it work in a single-threaded application?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  1 18:00:12 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:00:12 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <mailman.1733.1265043039.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2zl3szpp8.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hk7mdm$nss$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/1/2010 3:05 PM, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> You have itertools.consume which is close to what you want:
>
>      consume(imap(func, iterable)) # 2.x
>
>      consume(map(func, iterable)) # 3.x

Consume is not in itertools. It is one of many recipes in the doc 
(9.7.2). For exhausting an iterator, collections.deque(iterator, maxlen=0).



From Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de  Mon Feb  1 18:05:16 2010
From: Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Hermann Lauer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:05:16 +0100
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
Message-ID: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>

Dear All,

while trying to optimize some unpack operations with self compiling 
code I wondered howto invoke the optimization in the exec statement.
Even starting with -O or -OO yields in Python 2.5.2 the same dis.dis code, which
is appended below.

My interest would be to reduce the LOAD_FAST ops of "s" with DUP_TOP on the stack
(are there hash lookups behind those ?) and of course to optimize the integer
arithmetics following below (removing +-0 etc).

Thanks for any ideas,
greetings
  Hermann


>>> import dis
>>> g=r.rra.LAST3.getter(ds=0,row=0)

class fa(struct.Struct):
  def __init__(s):
    super(fa,s).__init__('d')

  def __call__(s,):
      return s.unpack_from(s.buf,5392+(((s.lastrow()-0)%2880)*3+0)*8)[0]

>>> dis.dis(g.__call__)
  7           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
              3 LOAD_ATTR                0 (unpack_from)
              6 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
              9 LOAD_ATTR                1 (buf)
             12 LOAD_CONST               1 (5392)
             15 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
             18 LOAD_ATTR                2 (lastrow)
             21 CALL_FUNCTION            0
             24 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
             27 BINARY_SUBTRACT     
             28 LOAD_CONST               3 (2880)
             31 BINARY_MODULO       
             32 LOAD_CONST               4 (3)
             35 BINARY_MULTIPLY     
             36 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
             39 BINARY_ADD          
             40 LOAD_CONST               5 (8)
             43 BINARY_MULTIPLY     
             44 BINARY_ADD          
             45 CALL_FUNCTION            2
             48 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
             51 BINARY_SUBSCR       
             52 RETURN_VALUE        


-- 
Netzwerkadministration/Zentrale Dienste, Interdiziplinaeres 
Zentrum fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen der Universitaet Heidelberg
IWR; INF 368; 69120 Heidelberg; Tel: (06221)54-8236 Fax: -5224
Email: Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 18:07:03 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:07:03 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002011507m35902e99hca59d26101bc644@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Jonathan Gardner
<jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> On Jan 31, 3:01?am, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 30, 10:43?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
>> > That's also true for most functional languages, e.g. Haskell and ML, as
>> > well as e.g. Tcl and most shells. Why require "f(x)" or "(f x)" if "f x"
>> > will suffice?
>>
>> yuck! wrapping the arg list with parenthesis (python way) makes the
>> most sense. Its to easy to misread somthing like this
>>
>> onetwothree four five six
>>
>> onetwothree(four, five, six) #ahhh... plain english.
>
> In Lisp-ish languages, you have a list of stuff that represents a
> function call:
>
> ?(a b c d)
>
> means: Call "a" with values (b, c, d)
>
> While this certainly doesn't agree with what you learned in Algebra,
> it is a reasonable syntax that exposes the code-data duality of
> programs. There is, however, one fatal flaw. Why is the first element
> so different than the rest? This is inconsistent with what people who
> are unfamiliar with the language would expect. Indeed, in teaching
> Lisp, learners have to be reminded about how the evaluator looks at
> lists and processes them.
>
> I would expect a clear, simple language to have exactly one way to
> call a function. This calling notation would clearly distinguish
> between the function and its parameters. There are quite a few
> options, and it turns out that "function(arg, arg, arg)" is a really
> good compromise.
>
> One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
> ?foo(); ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> ?$bar = foo; ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
> ?$bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
> ?$bar->() ? ? # Call whatever '$bar' is pointing at with no args
>
> Compare with python:
>
> ?foo() ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> ?bar = foo() # 'bar' is now pointing to whatever 'foo()' returned
> ?bar = foo ? # 'bar' is now pointing to the same thing 'foo' points to
> ?bar() ? ? ? # Call 'bar' with no args
>
> One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> function calls with references.

Ruby isn't nearly as bad as Perl in this regard; at least it doesn't
introduce extra syntax (though there are extra method calls):

foo    # Call 'foo' with no args.
bar = foo  # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to bar
bar = method(:foo)  # 'bar' is now referencing the 'foo' "function"
bar.call    # Call 'bar' (i.e. 'foo') with no args

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From as at sci.fi  Mon Feb  1 18:08:39 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:08:39 +0200
Subject: myths about python 3
References: <mailman.1470.1264588330.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b60a4c3$0$1655$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.1640.1264822423.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vg3vdegy2o8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

Blog <Blogtest77 at gmail.com> writes:

> Where did you come up with that information? Almost all of the major
> distros ship with 2.6.x - CentOS, OpenSuSe, Ubuntu, Fedora. (Debian
> does ship with 2.5, but the next major release "sid' is due out in Q2)

I don't see Python 2.6 in my CentOS 5.4 installation. All I see is
2.4. Same as RHEL and I'd say that's a fairly major distribution too.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb  1 18:08:48 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:08:48 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xeil4tuyn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> I judge a language's simplicity by how long it takes to explain the
> complete language. That is, what minimal set of documentation do you
> need to describe all of the language? With a handful of statements,
> and a very short list of operators, Python beats out every language in
> the Algol family that I know of.

Python may have been like that in the 1.5 era.  By now it's more
complex, and not all that well documented.  Consider the different
subclassing rules for new and old style classes, the interaction of
metaclasses and multiple inheritance, the vagaries of what operations
are thread-safe without locks, the inter-thread signalling mechanism
that can only be invoked through the C API, the mysteries of
generator-based coroutines, etc.  I've never used Ruby and I think its
syntax is ugly, but everyone tells me it's more uniform.

Simplicity is not necessarily such a good thing anyway.  Consider FORTH.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Feb  1 18:12:34 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:12:34 +0100
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B675FE2.4090404@v.loewis.de>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:30:56 +0100, Martin v. Loewis a ?crit :
>>> Is this a bug in Python 2.6 or a deliberate choice regarding
>>> implementation concerns I don't know about?
>> It's actually a bug also that you pass an array; doing so *should* give
>> the very same error.
> 
> Well, if you can give neither an array nor a bytearray to recv_into(), 
> what *could* you give it?

My recommendation would be to not use recv_into in 2.x, but only in 3.x.

> recv_into() should simply be fixed to use the new buffer API, as it does 
> in 3.x.

I don't think that's the full solution. The array module should also
implement the new buffer API, so that it would also fail with the old
recv_into.

Regards,
Martin


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  1 18:29:55 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Feb 2010 15:29:55 -0800
Subject: interaction of mode 'r+', file.write(), and file.tell(): a bug or
	undefined behavior?
References: <4b617f4a$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <hk7o5j$oj$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b617f4a$1 at dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
Lie Ryan  <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>f = open('input.txt', 'r+')
>for line in f:
>    s = line.replace('python', 'PYTHON')
>    # f.tell()
>    f.write(s)
>
>When f.tell() is commented, 'input.txt' does not change; but when
>uncommented, the f.write() succeeded writing into the 'input.txt'
>(surprisingly, but not entirely unexpected, at the end of the file).

Another possible issue is that using a file iterator is generally not
compatible with direct file operations.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From andrewdalke at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 19:02:24 2010
From: andrewdalke at gmail.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:02:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4B675FE2.4090404@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <942aa99d-1bc1-4aa8-867a-6366cb3668a1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 12:12?am, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> My recommendation would be to not use recv_into in 2.x, but only in 3.x.

> I don't think that's the full solution. The array module should also
> implement the new buffer API, so that it would also fail with the old
> recv_into.

Okay. But recv_into was added in 2.5 and the test case in
2.6's test_socket.py clearly allows an array there:


    def testRecvInto(self):
        buf = array.array('c', ' '*1024)
        nbytes = self.cli_conn.recv_into(buf)
        self.assertEqual(nbytes, len(MSG))
        msg = buf.tostring()[:len(MSG)]
        self.assertEqual(msg, MSG)

Checking koders and Google Code search engines, I found one project
which used recv_into, with the filename bmpreceiver.py . It
uses a array.array("B", [0] * length) .

Clearly it was added to work with an array, and it's
being used with an array. Why shouldn't people use it
with Python 2.x?

                Andrew
                dalke at dalkescientific.com


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 19:49:00 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Feb 2010 00:49:00 GMT
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:19:52 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

>> Personally, I think it is a terribly idea to keep the source file and
>> byte code file in such radically different places. They should be kept
>> together. What you call "clutter" I call having the files that belong
>> together kept together.
> 
> I see why you think so, it's reasonable, however there is compelling
> argument, I think, for the opposite view: namely to keep things
> separate. An average developer definitely wants easy access to .py
> files. However I see no good reason for having access to .pyc files. I
> for one have never inspected a .pyc file. Why would you want to have a
> .pyc file at hand?

If you don't care about access to .pyc files, why do you care where they 
are? If they are in a subdirectory module.pyr, then shrug and ignore the 
subdirectory. 

If you (generic you) are one of those developers who don't care 
about .pyc files, then when you are browsing your source directory and 
see this:


module.py
module.pyc 

you just ignore the .pyc file. Or delete it, and Python will re-create it 
as needed. So if you see

module.pyr/

just ignore that as well.



> If we don't really want to have .pyc files in convenient locations
> because we (almost) never want to access them really, then I'd say it's
> a good idea to keep them totally separate and so make don't get in the
> way.

I like seeing them in the same place as the source file, because when I 
start developing a module, I often end up renaming it multiple times 
before it settles on a final name. When I rename or move it, I delete 
the .pyc file, and that ensures that if I miss changing an import, and 
try to import the old name, it will fail.

By hiding the .pyc file elsewhere, it is easy to miss deleting one, and 
then the import won't fail, it will succeed, but use the old, obsolete 
byte code.



-- 
Steven


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Feb  1 20:00:50 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:00:50 +0100
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
In-Reply-To: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B677942.2090002@cheimes.de>

cjblaine wrote:
> Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
> install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?

Python's distutils doesn't alter the library search path unless you tell
it explicitly.

> A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):
> 
> % python setup.py build
> ....
> gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
> apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
> %

The Extension() class supports the rpath argument. Simply add
rpath="/path/to/library/dir" and you are good.

Christian


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  1 20:02:01 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:02:01 -0500
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
In-Reply-To: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hk7ti3$bjs$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/1/2010 6:05 PM, Hermann Lauer wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> while trying to optimize some unpack operations with self compiling
> code I wondered howto invoke the optimization in the exec statement.
> Even starting with -O or -OO yields in Python 2.5.2 the same dis.dis code, which
> is appended below.

Currently, as far as I know, -0 just removes asserts.

>
> My interest would be to reduce the LOAD_FAST ops of "s" with DUP_TOP on the stack
> (are there hash lookups behind those ?)

Load_fast is a locals array lookup. load_fast      0 (s) means "put 
locals[0] on the top of the stack". The '(s)' is added for the human reader.

> and of course to optimize the integer
> arithmetics following below (removing +-0 etc).

Something + 0 is no necessarily something. It depends on the type of 
something. So the interpreter will not optimize it away. What concretely 
happens with int+0 is a different matter. You can remove it though, if 
you want to get into byte-code hacking, but why write '+0' if you do not 
want it?


> Thanks for any ideas,
> greetings
>    Hermann
>
>
>>>> import dis
>>>> g=r.rra.LAST3.getter(ds=0,row=0)
>
> class fa(struct.Struct):
>    def __init__(s):
>      super(fa,s).__init__('d')
>
>    def __call__(s,):
>        return s.unpack_from(s.buf,5392+(((s.lastrow()-0)%2880)*3+0)*8)[0]
>
>>>> dis.dis(g.__call__)
>    7           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
>                3 LOAD_ATTR                0 (unpack_from)
>                6 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
>                9 LOAD_ATTR                1 (buf)
>               12 LOAD_CONST               1 (5392)
>               15 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
>               18 LOAD_ATTR                2 (lastrow)
>               21 CALL_FUNCTION            0
>               24 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
>               27 BINARY_SUBTRACT
>               28 LOAD_CONST               3 (2880)
>               31 BINARY_MODULO
>               32 LOAD_CONST               4 (3)
>               35 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               36 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
>               39 BINARY_ADD
>               40 LOAD_CONST               5 (8)
>               43 BINARY_MULTIPLY
>               44 BINARY_ADD
>               45 CALL_FUNCTION            2
>               48 LOAD_CONST               2 (0)
>               51 BINARY_SUBSCR
>               52 RETURN_VALUE

Terry Jan Reedy





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 20:12:04 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Feb 2010 01:12:04 GMT
Subject: For loop searching takes too long!
References: <6ea6ebda-43af-4a77-a17e-0930cdd13258@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<bf8bbf55-7ed6-4a50-9c5b-b185bc0c2201@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<03738ee7$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<96e06a43-2197-4e93-9837-3c4b461985e0@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.01.12.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:04:01 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> Having worked with datasets that are truly enormous, whenever I see a
> list that is unbounded (as this appears to be), I freak out because
> unbounded can be a really, really big number. Might as well write
> software that works for the truly enormous case and the really large
> case and be done with it once and for all.


Then write it to work on iterators, if at all possible, and you won't 
care how large the data stream is. Even databases have limits!

Of course you should write your code to deal with your expected data, but 
it is possible to commit overkill as well as underkill. There are trade-
offs between development effort, runtime speed, memory usage, and size of 
data you can deal with, and maximizing the final one is not always the 
best strategy.

Look at it this way... for most applications, you probably don't use 
arbitrary precision floats even though floating point numbers can have an 
unbounded number of decimal places. But in practice, you almost never 
need ten decimal places to pi, let alone an infinite number. If the 
creators of floating point libraries wrote software "that works for the 
truly enormous case", the overhead would be far too high for nearly all 
applications.

Choose your algorithm according to your expected need. If you under-
estimate your need, you will write slow code, and if you over-estimate 
it, you'll write slow code too. Getting that balance right is why they 
pay software architects the big bucks *wink*



-- 
Steven


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Feb  1 20:17:14 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:17:14 +0100
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
In-Reply-To: <hk7ti3$bjs$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hk7ti3$bjs$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B677D1A.9000403@cheimes.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> Currently, as far as I know, -0 just removes asserts.

-O (not -0) also sets __debug__ to False.

Christian


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  1 20:19:43 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:19:43 -0300
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
References: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <op.u7g7a5xwx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:05:16 -0300, Hermann Lauer  
<Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> escribi?:

> while trying to optimize some unpack operations with self compiling
> code I wondered howto invoke the optimization in the exec statement.
> Even starting with -O or -OO yields in Python 2.5.2 the same dis.dis  
> code, which
> is appended below.

There is not much difference with -O or -OO; assert statements are  
removed, __debug__ is False, docstrings are not stored (in -OO). Code  
generation is basically the same.

> My interest would be to reduce the LOAD_FAST ops of "s" with DUP_TOP on  
> the stack
> (are there hash lookups behind those ?)

No, no lookup is performed at run time. LOAD_FAST takes an integer  
argument, an index into the locals array. The compiler knows (by static  
analysis, at compile time) which names are local; those objects are stored  
in a C array. I've not done such microbenchmark, but using DUP_TOP instead  
might even be slower.

> and of course to optimize the integer
> arithmetics following below (removing +-0 etc).

Can't you remove it from source beforehand? (or, from  
`r.rra.LAST3.getter(ds=0,row=0)` since it looks like a code generator)

In general, x+0 may execute arbitrary code, depending on the type of x.  
Only if you could determine that x will always be an integer, you could  
optimize +0 away. Python (the current version of CPython) does not perform  
such analysis; you may investigate psyco, Unladen Swallow, ShedSkin for  
such things.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb  1 21:03:18 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:03:18 +0000
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.02.00.42.31000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:36:32 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>> for example, in if you have a function 'f' which takes two parameters to
>> call the function and get the result you use:
>> 
>>  f 2 3
>> 
>> If you want the function itself you use:
>> 
>>    f
> 
> How do you call a function of no arguments?

There's no such thing. All functions take one argument and return a value.

As functions don't have side-effects, there is seldom much point in having
a function with no arguments or which doesn't return a value. In cases
where it is useful (i.e. a value must have function type), you can use the
unit type "()" (essentially a zero-element tuple), e.g.:

	f () = 1
or:
	f x = ()



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  1 21:14:03 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:14:03 +0000
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.02.02.00.42.31000@nowhere.com>
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.00.42.31000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <4B678A6B.6060003@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Nobody wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:36:32 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>>> for example, in if you have a function 'f' which takes two parameters to
>>> call the function and get the result you use:
>>>
>>>  f 2 3
>>>
>>> If you want the function itself you use:
>>>
>>>    f
>> How do you call a function of no arguments?
> 
> There's no such thing. All functions take one argument and return a value.
> 
> As functions don't have side-effects, there is seldom much point in having
> a function with no arguments or which doesn't return a value. In cases
> where it is useful (i.e. a value must have function type), you can use the
> unit type "()" (essentially a zero-element tuple), e.g.:
> 
> 	f () = 1
> or:
> 	f x = ()
> 
A function with no arguments could be used as a lazy constant, generated
only on demand.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 21:17:04 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:17:04 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <4B678A6B.6060003@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <mailman.1668.1264940928.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0375f245$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.00.42.31000@nowhere.com>
	<4B678A6B.6060003@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002011817t572edf0fo52954a7f4a192b03@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:14 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Nobody wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:36:32 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>> for example, in if you have a function 'f' which takes two parameters to
>>>> call the function and get the result you use:
>>>>
>>>> ?f 2 3
>>>>
>>>> If you want the function itself you use:
>>>>
>>>> ? f
>>>
>>> How do you call a function of no arguments?
>>
>> There's no such thing. All functions take one argument and return a value.
>>
>> As functions don't have side-effects, there is seldom much point in having
>> a function with no arguments or which doesn't return a value. In cases
>> where it is useful (i.e. a value must have function type), you can use the
>> unit type "()" (essentially a zero-element tuple), e.g.:
>>
>> ? ? ? ?f () = 1
>> or:
>> ? ? ? ?f x = ()
>>
> A function with no arguments could be used as a lazy constant, generated
> only on demand.

The usefulness of that depends on a language's evaluation strategy.
Haskell, for instance, uses lazy evaluation by default, so your use
case doesn't apply in that instance.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb  1 21:21:55 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:21:55 +0000
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:35:57 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

>> If it was common-place to use Curried functions and partial application in
>> Python, you'd probably prefer "f a b c" to "f(a)(b)(c)" as well.
> 
> That's just the point. It isn't common to play with curried functions
> or monads or anything like that in computer science today. Yes,
> Haskell exists, and is a great experiment in how such a language could
> actually work. But at the same time, you have to have a brain the size
> of the titanic to contain all the little details about the language
> before you could write any large-scale application.

No, not really. Haskell (and previously ML) are often used as introductory
languages in Comp.Sci. courses (at least in the UK).

You don't need to know the entire language before you can use any of it
(if you did, Python would be deader than a certain parrot; Python's dark
corners are *really* dark).

The lack of mutable state (or at least, the isolation of it within monads)
eliminates a lot of potential problems. How many Python novices get
tripped up by "x = y = [] ; x.append(...); # now y has changed"?

And in spite of the category theory behind monads, Haskell's I/O system
really isn't any more complex than that of any other language, beyond the
constraint that you can only use it in "procedures" (i.e. something
returning an IO instance), not in functions. Which for the most part, is a
net win, as it forces you to maintain a reasonable degree of structure.

Now, if you actually want to use everything the language has to offer, you
can run into some fairly hairy error messages. But then I've found that to
be a common problem with generic programming in general. E.g. error
messages relating to the C++ STL can be quite insanely complex
(particularly when the actual error is "there are so many nested templates
that the mangled function name is longer than the linker can handle" and
it's trying to explain *where* the error is).



From no.email at please.post  Mon Feb  1 21:34:07 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:34:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
Message-ID: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>



I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.

An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines
long, and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was
quickly dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to
my screen (aka gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my
terminal *royally*.  Here's buggy.py:



import sys
import psycopg2
connection_params = "dbname='%s' user='%s' password='%s'" % tuple(sys.argv[1:])
conn = psycopg2.connect(connection_params)
cur = conn.cursor()
cur.execute('SELECT * FROM version;')
print '\n'.join(x[-1] for x in cur.fetchall())


(Of course, buggy.py is pretty useless; I reduced the original,
more useful, script to this to help me debug it.)

Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.  (This second script
is one I wrote as part of a little Python tutorial I put together
months ago, and is not much more of a script than hello_world.py;
it's baby-steps for the absolute beginner.  But apparently, it has
a killer name!  I had completely forgotten about it.)

Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
one-off scripts like the two of them.  I'll call this directory
myscripts in what follows. 

It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
mayhem*.

(This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
for me.)

How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
of a future release.

What else can one do?  Let's see, one should put every script in its
own directory, thereby containing the damage.

Anything else?

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

TIA!

~k


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb  1 21:36:44 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:36:44 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> One of the bad things with languages like perl

FYI: the language is called Perl, the program that executes a Perl
program is called perl.

> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
>  foo();       # Call 'foo' with no args.
>  $bar = foo;  # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
>  $bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
>               # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!

It should be $bar = \&foo 
Your example actually calls foo...

[..]

> One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> function calls with references.

The syntax follows that of referencing and dereferencing:

$bar = \@array;       # bar contains now a reference to array
$bar->[ 0 ];          # first element of array referenced by bar
$bar = \%hash;        # bar contains now a reference to a hash
$bar->{ key };        # value associated with key of hash ref. by bar
$bar = \&foo;         # bar contains now a reference to a sub
$bar->( 45 );         # call sub ref. by bar with 45 as an argument

Consistent: yes. New syntax? No.

Also, it helps to think of

$ as a thing
@ as thingies indexed by numbers
% as thingies indexed by keys

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 21:50:16 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:50:16 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>

>
> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
> the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
> for me.)
>
> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
> and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
> not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
> of a future release.
>


First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.

Secondly, I use packages structuring my libraries, and avoid junk
directories of a hundred some odd 'scripts'.

Third, I don't execute scripts in that directory structure directly, but
instead do python -c 'from package.blah import main; main.main()' or some
such. Usually via some short-cut, or a runner batch file.

Note that the third avoids the above problem entirely, but that's not why I
do it. Its just a side-effect.

--S
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb  1 21:50:55 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:50:55 +0000
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.02.48.19.187000@nowhere.com>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:13:38 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> I judge a language's simplicity by how long it takes to explain the
> complete language. That is, what minimal set of documentation do you
> need to describe all of the language?

That's not a particularly good metric, IMHO.

A simple "core" language doesn't necessarily make a language simple to
use. You can explain the entirety of pure lambda calculus or combinators
in five minutes, but you wouldn't want to write real code in either (and
you certainly wouldn't want to read such code which was written by someone
else).

For a start, languages with a particularly simple "core" tend to delegate
too much to the library. One thing which puts a lot of people off of
lisp is the lack of infix operators; after all, (* 2 (+ 3 4)) works fine
and doesn't require any additional language syntax. For an alternative,
Tcl provides the "expr" function which essentially provides a sub-language
for arithmetic expressions.

A better metric is whether using N features has O(N) complexity, or O(N^2)
(where you have to understand how each feature relates to each other
feature) or even O(2^N) (where you have to understand every possible
combination of interactions).

> With a handful of statements,
> and a very short list of operators, Python beats out every language in
> the Algol family that I know of.

Not once you move beyond the 10-minute introduction, and have to start
thinking in terms of x + y is x.__add__(y) or maybe y.__radd__(x) and also
that x.__add__(y) is x.__getattribute__('__add__')(y) (but x + y *isn't*
equivalent to the latter due to __slots__), and maybe .__coerce__() gets
involved somewhere, and don't even get me started on __metaclass__ or
__init__ versus __new__ or ...

Yes, the original concept was very nice and clean, but everything since
then has been wedged in there by sheer force with a bloody great hammer.




From sccolbert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 21:54:04 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:54:04 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002011854h47a61da7j8740be722b8eb656@mail.gmail.com>

This is kinda akin to creating your own libc.so in a folder where your
compiling and executing c programs and then wondering why your program bugs
out....

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:34 PM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

>
>
> I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.
>
> An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines
> long, and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was
> quickly dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to
> my screen (aka gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my
> terminal *royally*.  Here's buggy.py:
>
>
>
> import sys
> import psycopg2
> connection_params = "dbname='%s' user='%s' password='%s'" %
> tuple(sys.argv[1:])
> conn = psycopg2.connect(connection_params)
> cur = conn.cursor()
> cur.execute('SELECT * FROM version;')
> print '\n'.join(x[-1] for x in cur.fetchall())
>
>
> (Of course, buggy.py is pretty useless; I reduced the original,
> more useful, script to this to help me debug it.)
>
> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.  (This second script
> is one I wrote as part of a little Python tutorial I put together
> months ago, and is not much more of a script than hello_world.py;
> it's baby-steps for the absolute beginner.  But apparently, it has
> a killer name!  I had completely forgotten about it.)
>
> Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
> one-off scripts like the two of them.  I'll call this directory
> myscripts in what follows.
>
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
> mayhem*.
>
> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
> the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
> for me.)
>
> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
> and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
> not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
> of a future release.
>
> What else can one do?  Let's see, one should put every script in its
> own directory, thereby containing the damage.
>
> Anything else?
>
> Any suggestion would be appreciated.
>
> TIA!
>
> ~k
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb  1 21:56:34 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:56:34 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <87bpg8ny59.fsf@castleamber.com>

Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com> writes:

> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:35:57 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>
>>> If it was common-place to use Curried functions and partial application in
>>> Python, you'd probably prefer "f a b c" to "f(a)(b)(c)" as well.
>> 
>> That's just the point. It isn't common to play with curried functions
>> or monads or anything like that in computer science today. Yes,
>> Haskell exists, and is a great experiment in how such a language could
>> actually work. But at the same time, you have to have a brain the size
>> of the titanic to contain all the little details about the language
>> before you could write any large-scale application.
>
> No, not really. Haskell (and previously ML) are often used as introductory
> languages in Comp.Sci. courses (at least in the UK).

At least in the early 90's this was also the case in the Netherlands, at
the University of Utrecht. We got Miranda/Gofer, and in a different,
more advanced course Linda (Miranda for parallel machines). Also the
inner workings of functional programming languages was a course. (Can't
recall the name of the book that was used, but it was quite good IMO).

I want to start (re)learning Haskell later this year, because I liked
Miranda/Gofer a lot back then.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  1 21:57:27 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 18:57:27 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002011857h6e60a28ajd3a6f0c4516fe286@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:34 PM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:
> I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.
<snip>
> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py. ?(This second script
> is one I wrote as part of a little Python tutorial I put together
> months ago, and is not much more of a script than hello_world.py;
> it's baby-steps for the absolute beginner. ?But apparently, it has
> a killer name! ?I had completely forgotten about it.)
>
> Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
> one-off scripts like the two of them. ?I'll call this directory
> myscripts in what follows.
>
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
> mayhem*.
>
> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
> the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
> for me.)
>
> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
> and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
> not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
> of a future release.
>
> What else can one do? ?Let's see, one should put every script in its
> own directory, thereby containing the damage.
>
> Anything else?
>
> Any suggestion would be appreciated.

I think absolute imports avoid this problem:

from __future__ import absolute_import

For details, see PEP 328:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb  1 22:09:48 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:09:48 +0000
Subject: HTML Parser which allows low-keyed local changes?
References: <hk4nbh$u92$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.03.07.12.172000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:57:31 +0100, Robert wrote:

> I tried lxml, but after walking and making changes in the element 
> tree, I'm forced to do a full serialization of the whole document 
> (etree.tostring(tree)) - which destroys the "human edited" format 
> of the original HTML code.
> makes it rather unreadable.
> 
> is there an existing HTML parser which supports tracking/writing 
> back particular changes in a cautious way by just making local 
> changes? or a least tracks the tag start/end positions in the file?

HTMLParser, sgmllib.SGMLParser and htmllib.HTMLParser all allow you to
retrieve the literal text of a start tag (but not an end tag).
Unfortunately, they're only tokenisers, not parsers, so you'll need to
handle minimisation yourself.



From roy at panix.com  Mon Feb  1 22:15:32 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:15:32 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>

In article <hk82uv$8kn$1 at reader1.panix.com>, kj <no.email at please.post> 
wrote:

> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.
> [...]
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
> mayhem*.

I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.  The general 
pattern is:

1) You have something which refers to a resource by name.

2) There is a sequence of places which are searched for this name.

3) The search finds the wrong one because another resource by the same name 
appears earlier in the search path.

I've gotten bitten like this by shells finding the wrong executable (in 
$PATH).  By dynamic loaders finding the wrong library (in 
$LD_LIBRARY_PATH).  By C compilers finding the wrong #include file.  And so 
on.  This is just Python's import finding the wrong module in your 
$PYTHON_PATH.

The solution is the same in all cases.  You either have to refer to 
resources by some absolute name, or you need to make sure you set up your 
search paths correctly and know what's in them.  In your case, one possible 
solution be to make sure "." (or "") isn't in sys.path (although that might 
cause other issues).


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 22:28:55 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Feb 2010 03:28:55 GMT
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:34:07 +0000, kj wrote:

> I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.
> 
> An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines long,
> and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was quickly
> dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to my screen (aka
> gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my terminal *royally*. 
> Here's buggy.py:
[...]
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to import
> some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends up importing
> the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute mayhem*.


There is no module numbers in the standard library, at least not in 2.5. 

>>> import numbers
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named numbers

It must be specific to psycopg2.

I would think this is a problem with psycopg2 -- it sounds like it should 
be written as a package, but instead is written as a bunch of loose 
modules. I could be wrong of course, but if it is just a collection of 
modules, I'd definitely call that a poor design decision, if not a bug.


> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and the
> fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement for
> me.)

No, it's a wart. There's no doubt it bites people occasionally, but I've 
been programming in Python for about ten years and I've never been bitten 
by this yet. I'm sure it will happen some day, but not yet.

In this case, the severity of the bug (megabytes of binary crud to the 
screen) is not related to the cause of the bug (shadowing a module).

As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without 
breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0 
was missed. Oh well, life goes on.


> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files, and
> *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does not suddenly
> pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory of a future
> release.

Unfortunately, Python makes no guarantee that there won't be some clash 
between modules. You can minimize the risks by using packages, e.g. given 
a package spam containing modules a, b, c, and d, if you refer to spam.a 
etc. then you can't clash with modules a, b, c, d, but only spam. So 
you've cut your risk profile from five potential clashes to only one.

Also, generally most module clashes are far more obvious. If you do this:

import module
x = module.y

and module is shadowed by something else, you're *much* more likely to 
get an AttributeError than megabytes of crud to the screen.

I'm sorry that you got bitten so hard by this, but in practice it's 
uncommon, and relatively mild when it happens.


> What else can one do?  Let's see, one should put every script in its own
> directory, thereby containing the damage.

That's probably a bit extreme, but your situation:

"Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
one-off scripts like the two of them."

is far too chaotic for my liking. You don't need to go to the extreme of 
a separate directory for each file, but you can certainly tidy things up 
a bit. For example, anything that's obsolete should be moved out of the 
way where it can't be accidentally executed or imported.




-- 
Steven


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Feb  1 22:33:10 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:33:10 -0600
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B679CF6.1060607@tim.thechases.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.

Given the comprehensive nature of the batteries-included in 
Python, it's not as hard to accidentally shadow a built-in, 
unknown to you, but yet that is imported by a module you are 
using.  The classic that's stung me enough times (and many others 
on c.l.p and other forums, as a quick google evidences) such that 
I *finally* remember:

   bash$ touch email.py
   bash$ python
   ...
   >>> import smtplib
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
     File "/usr/lib/python2.5/smtplib.py", line 46, in <module>
       import email.Utils
   ImportError: No module named Utils

Using "email.py" is an innocuous name for a script/module you 
might want to do emailish things, and it's likely you'll use 
smtplib in the same code...and kablooie, things blow up even if 
your code doesn't reference or directly use the built-in email.py.

Yes, as Chris mentions, PEP-328 absolute vs. relative imports 
should help ameliorate the problem, but it's not yet commonly 
used (unless you're using Py3, it's only at the request of a 
__future__ import in 2.5+).

-tkc






From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  1 22:35:47 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Feb 2010 03:35:47 GMT
Subject: Optimized bytecode in exec statement
References: <20100201230516.GA22351@lemon.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.1766.1265073607.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.03.35.46@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:19:43 -0300, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:05:16 -0300, Hermann Lauer
> <Hermann.Lauer at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> escribi?:
> 
>> while trying to optimize some unpack operations with self compiling
>> code I wondered howto invoke the optimization in the exec statement.
>> Even starting with -O or -OO yields in Python 2.5.2 the same dis.dis
>> code, which
>> is appended below.
> 
> There is not much difference with -O or -OO; assert statements are
> removed, __debug__ is False, docstrings are not stored (in -OO). Code
> generation is basically the same.

Also code of the form:

if __debug__:
    whatever

is compiled away if __debug__ is false.



> In general, x+0 may execute arbitrary code, depending on the type of x.
> Only if you could determine that x will always be an integer, you could
> optimize +0 away. Python (the current version of CPython) does not
> perform such analysis; you may investigate psyco, Unladen Swallow,
> ShedSkin for such things.

Keep in mind that the peephole optimizer in CPython does constant 
folding: 1+1 compiles to 2. Older versions of Python, and other 
implementations, may not.

But as a general rule, Python does very little optimization at compile 
time. To a first approximation, "remove asserts" is all that it does.



-- 
Steven


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 22:41:21 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:41:21 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <4B679CF6.1060607@tim.thechases.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B679CF6.1060607@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002011941y6081fcabkd7f5d43b339f3781@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>>
>
> Given the comprehensive nature of the batteries-included in Python, it's
> not as hard to accidentally shadow a built-in, unknown to you, but yet that
> is imported by a module you are using.


I get that people run into this problem on occasion, but honestly-- its
*really* not very hard to avoid. If you're creating a module which feels..
generic. As if you may use that same name for a certain kinda topic in a
couple different programs-- chances are it /might/ be used as a generic
provider of support for that kinda topic in the standard library.

"email", "http", "url", anything with a generic .. smell. Assume it /is/ in
the stdlib until you demonstrate otherwise, if you aren't deeply familiar
with the stdlib.

And two seconds later, you can know: 'import numbers' will work. Can't use
that. Yeah, when a new version comes out, you may have to read What's New,
and see a new module, then rename something.

If you're going to use relative imports (and that's #2, I never do-- ever--
even before PEP328 existed), you just have to deal with the flatness of the
top-level namespace and how Python broadly claims the right to put darn near
anything in there.

Although they do google around a bit to try to gauge how likely it is to
clash, but still.

--S
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:01:11 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:01:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <012920a6-c9d7-4200-8b8a-160021dbf3bb@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:34?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
> one-off scripts like the two of them. ?I'll call this directory
> myscripts in what follows.

[snip]

> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?


Don't put hundreds of little one-off scripts in single directory.
Python can't save you from polluting your own namespace.

Don't choose such generic names for modules.  Keep in mind module
names are potentially globally visible and any sane advice you ever
heard about globals is to use descriptive names.  I instinctively use
adjectives, compound words, and abstract nouns for the names of all my
modules so as to be more descriptive, and to avoid name conflicts with
classes and variables.

Also learn to debug better.


Carl Banks


From cjblaine at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:04:56 2010
From: cjblaine at gmail.com (cjblaine)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:04:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
References: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1763.1265072455.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <303e1371-bc77-4cc8-bbbf-bddfd610fad9@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 8:00?pm, Christian Heimes <li... at cheimes.de> wrote:
> cjblaine wrote:
> > Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
> > install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?
>
> Python's distutils doesn't alter the library search path unless you tell
> it explicitly.
>
> > A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):
>
> > % python setup.py build
> > ....
> > gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
> > apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
> > %
>
> The Extension() class supports the rpath argument. Simply add
> rpath="/path/to/library/dir" and you are good.
>
> Christian

Thanks for the reply.

So, python setup.py build rpath="/whatever/lib" ?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:12:25 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:12:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 7:33?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>
> Given the comprehensive nature of the batteries-included in
> Python, it's not as hard to accidentally shadow a built-in,
> unknown to you, but yet that is imported by a module you are
> using. ?The classic that's stung me enough times (and many others
> on c.l.p and other forums, as a quick google evidences) such that
> I *finally* remember:
>
> ? ?bash$ touch email.py
> ? ?bash$ python
> ? ?...
> ? ?>>> import smtplib
> ? ?Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ? ?File "/usr/lib/python2.5/smtplib.py", line 46, in <module>
> ? ? ? ?import email.Utils
> ? ?ImportError: No module named Utils
>
> Using "email.py" is an innocuous name for a script/module you
> might want to do emailish things, and it's likely you'll use
> smtplib in the same code...and kablooie, things blow up even if
> your code doesn't reference or directly use the built-in email.py.


email.py is not an innocuous name, it's a generic name in a global
namespace, which is a Bad Thing.  Plus what does a script or module
called "email.py" actually do?  Send email?  Parse email?  "email" is
terrible name for a module and you deserve what you got for using it.

Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
library module of related functions, "email_handling.py".  Modules and
scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
names.


(**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
an "innocuous" name, It can.


Carl Banks


From cjblaine at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:35:37 2010
From: cjblaine at gmail.com (cjblaine)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:35:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
References: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1763.1265072455.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<303e1371-bc77-4cc8-bbbf-bddfd610fad9@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8167cbe0-d099-4a0b-804e-6e91817197ec@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 11:04?pm, cjblaine <cjbla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 8:00?pm, Christian Heimes <li... at cheimes.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > cjblaine wrote:
> > > Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
> > > install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?
>
> > Python's distutils doesn't alter the library search path unless you tell
> > it explicitly.
>
> > > A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):
>
> > > % python setup.py build
> > > ....
> > > gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
> > > apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
> > > %
>
> > The Extension() class supports the rpath argument. Simply add
> > rpath="/path/to/library/dir" and you are good.
>
> > Christian
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> So, python setup.py build rpath="/whatever/lib" ?

Replying to myself:

No.  Actually, Christian, it looks like it's runtime_library_dirs?

class Extension:
...
      runtime_library_dirs : [string]
        list of directories to search for C/C++ libraries at run time
        (for shared extensions, this is when the extension is loaded)

So, how does one inject that into, I assume, setup.cfg ?  Ideally it
could be done via the build command-line, but I don't see a way to do
that when browsing python setup.py build --help

( there is no setup.cfg provided in the PyGreSQL source tree, to )
( continue that example case                                     )


From gobladoome at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 00:26:57 2010
From: gobladoome at gmail.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:26:57 +1300
Subject: Problems embedding python 2.6 in C++
In-Reply-To: <op.u7g0tijgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <5089497e1002011321h5328ed68y4bfab055f627ba74@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7g0tijgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <5089497e1002012126h55f0611ct476eabb0ccf1bea1@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Gabriel,

I've managed to get it working and so far stable...

What wasn't working reliably:

mycppclass
   mycppclass::mycppclass()
       m_mypymodule = PyImport_Import(pModuleName)

  mycppclass::~ mycppclass()
      Py_XDECREF(m_mypymodule)

  mycppclass::callpy(funcname, args...)
      PyTuple_SetItem * args
      PyCallable_Check(func)
      PyObject_CallObject(func)

Current working version:

mycppclass
   mycppclass::mycppclass()
   {}

  mycppclass::~ mycppclass()
  {}

  mycppclass::callpy(funcname, args...)
      m_mypymodule = PyImport_Import(pModuleName)

      pyargs = PyTuple_SetItem * args
      PyCallable_Check(func)
      PyObject_CallObject(func,pyargs)

      Py_XDECREF(m_mypymodule)

So now the module is being imported each function call (luckily I don't have
to worry about performance)

I assume this means that the internal representation of the imported module
is being corrupted by something. I found another person with a similar issue
here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043306.html - that is
a long time ago but another multi-threaded app.

I'm happy to use the working method but I'd like to understand what is going
on a bit more. Can anyone shed any further light?

Regards,
Paul.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>
 wrote:

> En Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:21:56 -0300, Paul <gobladoome at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
> I'm extending some old Visual Studio 6 code to add embedded python
>> scripting. It works fine most of the time but some python function calls
>> do
>> not work as expected.
>>
>> The C++ code is a multithreaded MFC application. I was assuming that it
>> was
>> GIL issues but I have tried using the manual locking (PyEval_SaveThread &
>> PyEval_RestoreThread) and what seems to be the current method
>> (PyGILState_Ensure & PyGILState_Release)
>>
>> Here's the error I'm getting:
>>
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 296, in
>> get_giftcard_purchase_value
>>    details = extract_transaction_details_section(test)
>>  File "...scripts\receipt_parser.py", line 204, in
>> extract_transaction_details_section
>>    for line in base_details:
>> TypeError: expected string or Unicode object, NoneType found
>>
>> base_details is a list of strings (I can just define it like
>> 'base_details=["1","2","3"...]' on the line previous) and the code runs
>> fine
>> when run from standard interpreter. Many other function calls work fine
>> from
>> the embedded app.
>> I create and then Py_DECREF the function parameters and the return value
>> after each function call. The module import is created at C++ object
>> constructor and then Py_DECREF'd in the desctuctor
>>
>
> Usually, errors in reference count handling prevent objects from being
> destroyed (a memory leak) or generate a GPF when accessing an now-inexistent
> object. In principle I'd look elsewhere.
>
>
> Anyone else had issues of this kind?
>>
>
> Hard to tell without more info. base_details is built in C++ code? Is it
> actually a list, or a subclass defined by you?
> A common error is to forget to check *every* API function call for errors,
> so errors get unnoticed for a while but are reported on the next check,
> which may happen in an entirely unrelated function.
>
>
> My next try will be to use
>> sub-interpreters per thread.
>>
>
> I would not do that - I'd try to *simplify* the code to test, not make it
> more complicated.
> Does it work in a single-threaded application?
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 00:47:36 2010
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:47:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <38aead35-0662-4e05-877a-e924b76ad4e4@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Wanting the same methods to be attached to different classes often is
a code smell (perhaps it is not your case and then use setattr as
others said). Perhaps you can just leave such methods outside any
class. I would suggest you to use a testing framework not based on
inheritance (i.e. use nose or py.test). Perhaps your problem can be
solved with generative tests.


From rolf.oltmans at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 00:55:16 2010
From: rolf.oltmans at gmail.com (Oltmans)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:55:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1750.1265058965.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9208c5ea-f36d-4a1c-969c-283ffb049491@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 2:14?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
> Should not tee be subclassing test, not unittest.TestCase?
>

Thank you, Steve. This worked, but I've not clue why? Can you please
enlighten me why sub-classing 'test' made it happen? Please. Thanks
again.
> regards
> ?Steve
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS: ? ? ? ?http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From gjango.py at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 01:05:38 2010
From: gjango.py at gmail.com (guptha)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:05:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to use python-mms to send mms
Message-ID: <eb971016-b51e-4628-93f7-52f8c5b1d60b@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi group,
After hours of googling i found out that we can use python-mms to send
mms  from our PC connected with GSM cell phone/Modem.
I could appreciate if some one guide me with a example of sending an
mms using python-mms.
I am using Ubuntu9.10 .I am trying to send a ring tone via MMS.

Thanks
Ganesh Guptha


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  2 01:06:32 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 01:06:32 -0500
Subject: Adding methods from one class to another, dynamically
In-Reply-To: <9208c5ea-f36d-4a1c-969c-283ffb049491@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <f6f7d481-0481-4bef-9f49-8dc3b574d0fc@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1745.1265055951.28905.python-list@python.org>	<6bdff9bf-5b0d-410f-adc2-a0704fb188a0@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1750.1265058965.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9208c5ea-f36d-4a1c-969c-283ffb049491@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk8fd8$kq1$1@ger.gmane.org>

Oltmans wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2:14 am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Should not tee be subclassing test, not unittest.TestCase?
>>
> 
> Thank you, Steve. This worked, but I've not clue why? Can you please
> enlighten me why sub-classing 'test' made it happen? Please. Thanks
> again.

unittest.TestCase doesn't have any test* methods (methods whose names
begin with "test"). So neither do your subclasses.

When you subclass test, however, test has everything that
unittest.TestCase does (because it subclasses unittest.TestCase) and it
also has three test* methods. So your subclass of test also has those
three methods as well.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From purui.wang at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 01:26:52 2010
From: purui.wang at gmail.com (purui)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:26:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: search engine for python source code
Message-ID: <717f2d32-df15-4acc-bc39-e9532d23a4b2@u18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

I developed a source code search engine for python (http://
nullege.com). It helps you find samples from open source projects.
Unlike other code search engines, it really understands python syntax
and generates more relative results.
I'm working on expend the source code collection now. Give it a try if
google can't find a sample for you.

- Purui


From casevh at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 01:45:56 2010
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:45:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
Message-ID: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org>

Everyone,

I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:


http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/


In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
features in this release:


- Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
- Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
- Performance improvements by improved caching.
- Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
- Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
- Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
  longer recognized.

Changes since 1.11rc1:
- Recognizes GMP 5.
- Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).


Comments on provided binaries


The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.


Please report any issues!


casevh




From masklinn at masklinn.net  Tue Feb  2 02:29:38 2010
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:29:38 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
Message-ID: <DACA8433-5167-4627-AA91-9D8BF0787218@masklinn.net>

When trying to load the following config file, I get an error ``ConfigParser.NoOptionError: No option 'handlers' in section: 'logger_0'`` (in both Python 2.6.4 and  Python 3.1.1 on OSX, obviously ConfigParser is spelled configparser in 3.1):

    [loggers]
    keys=root,0
    [handlers]
    keys=console
    [formatters]
    keys=simple
    [logger_root]
    handlers=console
    [logger_0]
    level=DEBUG
    qualname=0
    [handler_console]
    class=StreamHandler
    formatter=simple
    args=()
    [formatter_simple]
    format=%(asctime)s:%(levelname)-8s:%(name)s::%(message)s

the goal is simply to have a logging level different on ``0`` than it is on ``root``, but to get it I have to include a handler on ``0`` and stop propagation (or messages are displayed on both root and 0).

Do note that this behavior (of mandating handlers) does *not* happen when loggers are configured programmatically.

Should this be considered a bug? Worthy of opening a request on the tracker?

And while I'm at it, a few other oddities/annoyances I noticed in logging:

* have to specify the `root` logger in loggers/keys, even though it's mandatory to configure the root logger, or I get the following error::

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "test.py", line 6, in <module>
        logging.config.fileConfig('logging.conf')
      File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/logging/config.py", line 82, in fileConfig
        _install_loggers(cp, handlers, disable_existing_loggers)
      File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/logging/config.py", line 183, in _install_loggers
        llist.remove("root")
    ValueError: list.remove(x): x not in list

* the ``args`` option is required when defining a handler, even in the example above where the handler doesn't take any argument (mandatory ones, anyway)

* Logger.log() doesn't take level names, only numerical levels, even after having called ``addLevelName``. This makes logging with custom levels much less clear as one has to write something along the lines of ``logging.log(100, 'Houston, we have a problem')`` instead of the clearer ``logging.log('PANTS_ON_FIRE', 'Houston, we have a problem')``. Note that since the introduction of _checkLevel fixing that is trivial:

diff -r dafc54104884 Lib/logging/__init__.py
--- a/Lib/logging/__init__.py	Sun Jan 31 14:17:25 2010 +0100
+++ b/Lib/logging/__init__.py	Mon Feb 01 22:21:03 2010 +0100
@@ -1146,13 +1146,14 @@
 
         logger.log(level, "We have a %s", "mysterious problem", exc_info=1)
         """
-        if not isinstance(level, int):
+        try:
+            rv = _checkLevel(level)
+        except (TypeError, ValueError):
             if raiseExceptions:
-                raise TypeError("level must be an integer")
-            else:
-                return
-        if self.isEnabledFor(level):
-            self._log(level, msg, args, **kwargs)
+                raise
+
+        if self.isEnabledFor(rv):
+            self._log(rv, msg, args, **kwargs)
 
     def findCaller(self):
         """



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Feb  2 02:35:13 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:35:13 +0100
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1757.1265064016.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1757.1265064016.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b67d5b1$0$6564$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Astan Chee, 01.02.2010 23:34:
> I have xml files that I want to convert to a hash/dict and then further
> placed in a wx CustomTreeCtrl based on the structure. The problem I am
> having now is that the XML file is very unusual and there aren't any
> unique identifiers to be put in a dict and because there are no unique
> variables, finding the value of it from a CustromTreeCtrl is abit tricky.
> I would appreciate any help or links to projects similar to this.

What part of the structure and what information are you interested in? That
will determine the key that you should use. Maybe storing more than one
field as key is an option.

Stefan


> The XML file looks something like this:
> <doc>
> <rm:statsDoc xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
>    <stats name="position1" description="Calculation statistics"
> kind="position">
>    <stats name="time" description="Timing summary" kind="section">
>        <string name="timersNote" description="Note:">This is the note on
> calculation times</string>
>        <stats name="timers" kind="timers">
> 
>        <timer name="totaltime" description="Total time">
>            <elapsed>609.081574</elapsed>
>            <user>2531.972081</user>
>            <system>65.119100</system>
>        </timer>
>        <timer name="partialTimer" description="Gravitational Displacement">
>            <elapsed>1772.011230</elapsed>
>        </timer>
>        <stats name="subTimers" description="All non-phased time"
> kind="timers">
>            <timer name="subATimer" description="Phase time A">
>            <elapsed>72.418861</elapsed>
>            </timer>
> 
>            <timer name="subBTimer" description="Phase time B">
>            <elapsed>28.285192</elapsed>
>            </timer>
>            <timer name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
>            <elapsed>0.000</elapsed>
>            </timer>
>        </stats>
>        <timer name="endTime" description="End">
>            <elapsed>607.432373</elapsed>
>        </timer>
>        </stats>
>    </stats>
>    <stats name="space" description="Space usage summary" kind="section">
>        <stats name="systemSpace" description="System Space">
>        <memory name="heapSpace" description="Total Space">
>            <peak>4833280000</peak>
> 
>            <current>4833280000</current>
>        </memory>
>        <memory name="spaceResidentSize" description="Space resident size">
>            <peak>4182777856</peak>
>            <current>4182777856</current>
>        </memory>
>        <int name="pageMem">1</int>
> 
>        <int name="memReclaims">1943498</int>
>        <int name="memSwaps">0</int>
>        </stats>
>        <stats name="subsystems" kind="memstats">
>        <memory name="geoSpace" description="Geo-Space">
>            <peak>1640100156</peak>
>            <current>411307840</current>
>        </memory>
>        <memory name="gridSpace" description="Grid-Space">
>            <peak>709596712</peak>
>            <current>1406752</current>
>        </memory>
>        <memory name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
>            <peak>737720720</peak>
>            <current>0</current>
>        </memory>
>                <memory name="endTime" description="End">
>            <peak>607.432373</peak>
>        </memory>
>        </stats>
>            <memory name="subsystemSpace" description="Subsystem space
> total">
>        <peak>5164184694</peak>
>        <current>2054715622</current>
>        </memory>
> 
>    </stats>
>    </stats>
> </rm:statsDoc>
> </doc>
> 


From ashish.vyas at motorola.com  Tue Feb  2 02:48:10 2010
From: ashish.vyas at motorola.com (VYAS ASHISH M-NTB837)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:48:10 +0800
Subject: Python packet capture utility
In-Reply-To: <717f2d32-df15-4acc-bc39-e9532d23a4b2@u18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7C57DB58C81FB64CA979EC6C4DB73E7A03F04217@ZMY16EXM67.ds.mot.com>

 
Dear All

I want to capture tcp packets in python. I need to do this on both
Windows and Linux on python3.1

I came across the following:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycap/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pylibpcap/
http://code.google.com/p/pypcap/
http://oss.coresecurity.com/projects/pcapy.html


I am not able to evaluate on my own. Which one should I pick up?
Priority is python3.1 support on both windows and Linux. I don't have to
do many/complex operations. If it is not so programmer friendly I am OK.

Also let me know if 2to3 would help here if there is not python3
support.

Regards
Ashish


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb  2 03:18:45 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:18:45 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.48.19.187000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <7xr5p4yrru.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com> writes:
> A better metric is whether using N features has O(N) complexity, or O(N^2)
> (where you have to understand how each feature relates to each other
> feature) or even O(2^N) (where you have to understand every possible
> combination of interactions).

M. Felleisen wrote a paper trying to formalize some metric on the
expressive power of programming languages.  I skimmed through it for
about a minute and wasn't convinced, but it apparently has gathered some
respect.  I want to read it more carefully sometime:

  http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.51.4656


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  2 03:38:07 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:38:07 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002020038u139f86eft66478e8f56a96469@mail.gmail.com>

>>> Personally, I think it is a terribly idea to keep the source file and
>>> byte code file in such radically different places. They should be kept
>>> together. What you call "clutter" I call having the files that belong
>>> together kept together.
>>
>> I see why you think so, it's reasonable, however there is compelling
>> argument, I think, for the opposite view: namely to keep things
>> separate. An average developer definitely wants easy access to .py
>> files. However I see no good reason for having access to .pyc files. I
>> for one have never inspected a .pyc file. Why would you want to have a
>> .pyc file at hand?
>
> If you don't care about access to .pyc files, why do you care where they
> are? If they are in a subdirectory module.pyr, then shrug and ignore the
> subdirectory.
>
> If you (generic you) are one of those developers who don't care
> about .pyc files, then when you are browsing your source directory and
> see this:
>
>
> module.py
> module.pyc
>
> you just ignore the .pyc file. Or delete it, and Python will re-create it
> as needed. So if you see
>
> module.pyr/
>
> just ignore that as well.
>
>
>
>> If we don't really want to have .pyc files in convenient locations
>> because we (almost) never want to access them really, then I'd say it's
>> a good idea to keep them totally separate and so make don't get in the
>> way.
>
> I like seeing them in the same place as the source file, because when I
> start developing a module, I often end up renaming it multiple times
> before it settles on a final name. When I rename or move it, I delete
> the .pyc file, and that ensures that if I miss changing an import, and
> try to import the old name, it will fail.
>
> By hiding the .pyc file elsewhere, it is easy to miss deleting one, and
> then the import won't fail, it will succeed, but use the old, obsolete
> byte code.


Okay, I see your point but I think your argument about importing shows
that python is doing something suboptimal because I have to worry
about .pyc files. Ideally, I only would need to worry about python
source files. There is now a chance to 'fix' (quotation marks because
maybe there is nothing to fix, according to some) this issue and make
all pyc files go away and having python magically doing the right
thing. A central pyc repository would be something I was thinking
about, but I admit it's a half baked or not even that, probably
quarter baked idea.

Cheers,
Daniel

-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 04:20:59 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 01:20:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <05028e22-abed-41cc-a60a-cdc27f803a3a@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 3:28?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> There is no module numbers in the standard library, at least not in 2.5.

It's new in 2.6 (and 3.0, I think;  it's there in 3.1, anyway).  It
provides abstract base classes for numeric types;  see the fractions
module source for some of the ways it can be used.  Here are the docs:

http://docs.python.org/library/numbers.html

and also PEP 3141, on which it's based:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3141/

--
Mark


From waku at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Feb  2 05:21:02 2010
From: waku at idi.ntnu.no (waku)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:21:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 16:58:34 +0000, tanix wrote:

[...]

> > The very idea of using a number of blanks to identify your block level
> > is as insane as it gets.
>
> Not at all. People do it all the time. The very idea of expecting people
> to count nested braces to identify block level is what is crazy, which is
> why in languages with braces people still indent the blocks.

for reading written code, it's surely helpful to have the code
indented, though for *human* reading, the count of blanks seems rather
inessential, as long as intended difference in indents is more
pronounced than incidental difference between same-level lines.

for writing new code, it's not necessarily that helpful to be *forced*
to keep with strict indenting rules.  in early development phases,
code is often experimental, and parts of it may need to be blocked or
unblocked as the codebase grows, and for experimentation, the need to
carefully and consistently indent and de-indent large chunks of code
can easily lead to a mess (blame it on the programmer, not the
language, but still).  yes, there are editors that help you indent
chunks of code, but see below.

there are languages where indentation can be either enforced and allow
one to omit some syntactic nuissance like braces or begin-end clauses,
or made optional, requiring other syntactic means for delimiting
blocks etc.  (consider f# with its #light declaration, for example.)

[...]

> In any case, if your IDE mixes tabs and spaces, your IDE is broken and
> you should fix your tools rather than blame the language.

as long as you are limited to your own code, sure.  but if many work
on the same bit, and use different editors and indentation policies,
blanks-tabs indentation issues are not unlikely.  you can have blanks
converted to tabs and vice versa automatically, but that's clearly a
nuisance.


>
>
> > Braces is the most reliable way to identify blocks.
>
> Nonsense. For the compiler, both are equally reliable, and for the human
> reader, indents beat braces easily.

if blanks and tabs are mixed together as indentation, the setting of
your ide can easily mess up the indentation, making the structure
unclear.  in some editors, you can have braces highlighted, so that
it's even easier to see where a block ends or starts.  and more
advanced editors help one see the structure of the code, whereby both
indentation and braces are made less important for the reader.

but yes, indentation surely helps in reading the code.

>
>
> > Sane compilers ignore blanks altogether.
>
> Really? So a "sane compiler" sees no difference between:
>
> for x in mylist:
>
> and
>
> forxinmylist:
>
>
> I'm glad I don't have to program using a compiler you consider "sane".

the point here was, i think, that blanks may have no syntactic
meaning, though they can still be essential at the lexical level.
your example targeted the lexical level, and that's rather irrelevant
to the problem of syntactically meaningful indentation discussed here.

vQ


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  2 05:49:04 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:49:04 +0100
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B680320.1050803@sequans.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Feb 1, 7:33 pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>   
>> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>>     
>>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>>>       
>> Given the comprehensive nature of the batteries-included in
>> Python, it's not as hard to accidentally shadow a built-in,
>> unknown to you, but yet that is imported by a module you are
>> using.  The classic that's stung me enough times (and many others
>> on c.l.p and other forums, as a quick google evidences) such that
>> I *finally* remember:
>>
>>    bash$ touch email.py
>>    bash$ python
>>    ...
>>    >>> import smtplib
>>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>>      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>>      File "/usr/lib/python2.5/smtplib.py", line 46, in <module>
>>        import email.Utils
>>    ImportError: No module named Utils
>>
>> Using "email.py" is an innocuous name for a script/module you
>> might want to do emailish things, and it's likely you'll use
>> smtplib in the same code...and kablooie, things blow up even if
>> your code doesn't reference or directly use the built-in email.py.
>>     
>
>
> email.py is not an innocuous name, it's a generic name in a global
> namespace, which is a Bad Thing.  Plus what does a script or module
> called "email.py" actually do?  Send email?  Parse email?  "email" is
> terrible name for a module and you deserve what you got for using it.
>
> Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
> library module of related functions, "email_handling.py".  Modules and
> scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
> names.
>
>
> (**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
> an "innocuous" name, It can.
>
>
> Carl Banks
>   
That does not solve anything, if the smtplib follows your advice, then 
you'll be shadowing its send_email module.
The only way to avoid collision would be to name your module 
__PDSFLSDF_send_email__13221sdfsdf__.py

That way, the probabilty you'd shadow one package hidden module is below 
the probability that Misses Hilton ever says something relevant.
However nobody wants to use such names.

Stephen gave good advices in this thread that helps avoiding this issue.

JM



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 06:20:34 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:20:34 +0100
Subject: unable to catch this exception
Message-ID: <hk91ob$hql$1@ger.gmane.org>


Exception in thread Thread-9 (most likely raised during interpreter 
shutdown):
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/threading.py", line 522, in 
__bootstrap_inner
   File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 875, in run
   File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 617, in ssh_connect
<type 'exceptions.AttributeError'>: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 
'BadAuthenticationType'


This happens on interpreter shutdown, even though I do try to catch the 
AttributeError exception:

try:
     fake = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
     try:
         self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username, 
key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
         loginsuccess = True
     except paramiko.BadAuthenticationType, e: # this is line 617
         self.conerror = str(e)
     except paramiko.SSHException, e:
         self.conerror = str(e)
     except socket.timeout, e:
         self.conerror = str(e)
     except socket.error, e:
         self.conerror = str(e)
except AttributeError:
     # this happens on interpreter shutdown
     self.conerror = 'shutdown'


It's clear what happens: paramiko gets its attributes cleared or the 
module perhaps gets unloaded and as result "paramiko" label leads to 
None, which obviously has no attribute BadAuthenticationType.

However, even though this is surrounded by try .. except AttributeError 
block, it evidently isn't catch. How to catch that exception? Or at 
least preven displaying this message?

Regards,
mk



From louis.coilliot at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 06:30:44 2010
From: louis.coilliot at gmail.com (lofic)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 03:30:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: threading+popen2 hang
Message-ID: <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I've seen many messages and bug reports on popen2 about pipes, buffer
size problems, sub-processes not properly closed, race conditions,
popen2 not being thread safe... But I still can't figure what applies
to my case.

This piece of code:

#!/usr/bin/python
import threading
import popen2

class MyThread ( threading.Thread ):
   def run ( self ):
        #popenChild = popen2.Popen3("cat /etc/passwd")
        #popenChild = popen2.Popen3("/usr/bin/iostat -V")
        popenChild = popen2.Popen3("/usr/bin/iostat -k -x 1 2")
        popenChild.wait()
        print 'Bye'

MyThread().start()


Works fine on RHEL5/python 2.4.3
Hangs on RHEL4/python 2.3.4

I presume it hangs on wait().

It does not hang with:
popenChild = popen2.Popen3("/usr/bin/iostat -V") # short output
popenChild = popen2.Popen3("cat /etc/passwd") # long output

It does not hang outside of a thread:
#!/usr/bin/python
import popen2
popenChild = popen2.Popen3("/usr/bin/iostat -k -x 1 2")
#print popenChild.fromchild.readlines()
popenChild.wait()
print 'Bye'


Could someone explain this to me ?

Thanks in advance.

Louis Coilliot




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  2 07:26:32 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:26:32 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <DACA8433-5167-4627-AA91-9D8BF0787218@masklinn.net>
References: <DACA8433-5167-4627-AA91-9D8BF0787218@masklinn.net>
Message-ID: <4B6819F8.8080004@sequans.com>

Masklinn wrote:
> When trying to load the following config file, I get an error ``ConfigParser.NoOptionError: No option 'handlers' in section: 'logger_0'`` (in both Python 2.6.4 and  Python 3.1.1 on OSX, obviously ConfigParser is spelled configparser in 3.1):
>
>     [loggers]
>     keys=root,0
>     [handlers]
>     keys=console
>     [formatters]
>     keys=simple
>     [logger_root]
>     handlers=console
>     [logger_0]
>     level=DEBUG
>     qualname=0
>     [handler_console]
>     class=StreamHandler
>     formatter=simple
>     args=()
>     [formatter_simple]
>     format=%(asctime)s:%(levelname)-8s:%(name)s::%(message)s
>
> the goal is simply to have a logging level different on ``0`` than it is on ``root``, but to get it I have to include a handler on ``0`` and stop propagation (or messages are displayed on both root and 0).
>
> Do note that this behavior (of mandating handlers) does *not* happen when loggers are configured programmatically.
>
> Should this be considered a bug? Worthy of opening a request on the tracker?
>
> And while I'm at it, a few other oddities/annoyances I noticed in logging:
>
> * have to specify the `root` logger in loggers/keys, even though it's mandatory to configure the root logger, or I get the following error::
>
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "test.py", line 6, in <module>
>         logging.config.fileConfig('logging.conf')
>       File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/logging/config.py", line 82, in fileConfig
>         _install_loggers(cp, handlers, disable_existing_loggers)
>       File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/logging/config.py", line 183, in _install_loggers
>         llist.remove("root")
>     ValueError: list.remove(x): x not in list
>
> * the ``args`` option is required when defining a handler, even in the example above where the handler doesn't take any argument (mandatory ones, anyway)
>
> * Logger.log() doesn't take level names, only numerical levels, even after having called ``addLevelName``. This makes logging with custom levels much less clear as one has to write something along the lines of ``logging.log(100, 'Houston, we have a problem')`` instead of the clearer ``logging.log('PANTS_ON_FIRE', 'Houston, we have a problem')``. Note that since the introduction of _checkLevel fixing that is trivial:
>
>   
To add a custom level, I would proceed that way:

logging.ALERT = 45
logging.addLevelName(logging.ALERT, 'ALERT !!')
logging.getLogger().log(logging.ALERT, 'test')

Passing a string to the log method as you did is incorrect.


Regarding your first point, I guess it's anti pattern. One way to do it:
1/ Configure the root logger with the lowest value 0, so the root logger 
does not filter any level.
2/ Configure each of your logger with the correct level

That way you can configure your '0' logger as you (badly :o)) named it 
with one level, and configure a potential '1' logger with another level. 
Don't bother with propagation. That way you won't need to duplicate your 
handlers on every logger.

JM


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb  2 07:32:08 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:32:08 -0800
Subject: unable to catch this exception
In-Reply-To: <hk91ob$hql$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hk91ob$hql$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002020432u718b018fj9abef3c1534a8f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:20 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Exception in thread Thread-9 (most likely raised during interpreter
> shutdown):
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/threading.py", line 522, in
> __bootstrap_inner
> ?File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 875, in run
> ?File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 617, in ssh_connect
> <type 'exceptions.AttributeError'>: 'NoneType' object has no attribute
> 'BadAuthenticationType'
>
>
> This happens on interpreter shutdown, even though I do try to catch the
> AttributeError exception:
>
> try:
> ? ?fake = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username,
> key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
> ? ? ? ?loginsuccess = True
> ? ?except paramiko.BadAuthenticationType, e: # this is line 617
> ? ? ? ?self.conerror = str(e)
> ? ?except paramiko.SSHException, e:
> ? ? ? ?self.conerror = str(e)
> ? ?except socket.timeout, e:
> ? ? ? ?self.conerror = str(e)
> ? ?except socket.error, e:
> ? ? ? ?self.conerror = str(e)
> except AttributeError:
> ? ?# this happens on interpreter shutdown
> ? ?self.conerror = 'shutdown'
>
>
> It's clear what happens: paramiko gets its attributes cleared or the module
> perhaps gets unloaded and as result "paramiko" label leads to None, which
> obviously has no attribute BadAuthenticationType.
>
> However, even though this is surrounded by try .. except AttributeError
> block, it evidently isn't catch. How to catch that exception? Or at least
> preven displaying this message?

Let's see if psychic debugging works...at 4 am...
Pure conjecture: Do you have something like the following elsewhere in
your code?:

try:
    #code
except SomeError, AttributeError:
    #code

For why this causes problems, consider:

except SomeError, e:
vs.
except SomeError, SomeOtherError:

Example:
try:
    raise IndexError
except IndexError, IOError:
    pass
print repr(IOError) #==> IndexError()

Hence, in your case, `AttributeError` may no longer refer to
AttributeError. You can check this by adding a `print
repr(AttributeError)` at the right place in your code.
I further conjecture that pyflakes/pychecker/etc. might issue a
warning about the offending bit of code.


"Third Option" solution: Since you take the same action no matter the
exception's type, have you considered simplifying your code to:

fake = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
try:
    self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username,
key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
    loginsuccess = True
except Exception, e:
    self.conerror = str(e)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeAThirdOption
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 08:24:46 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:24:46 +0100
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
Message-ID: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello,

Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would 
contain string for editing and would not just be empty?

I googled but found nothing.

Regards,
mk



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb  2 08:29:10 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 05:29:10 -0800
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
In-Reply-To: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002020529x2f97d03fxe4b1dc79539f2aaa@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:24 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?
>
> I googled but found nothing.

Er...: http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html
It's the third hit for "python readline".

Actually reading the page, sounds like you want readline.insert_text()
specifically.

Cheers,
Chris
--
Satan, thy name is MMW
http://blog.rebertia.com


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Feb  2 09:05:02 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:05:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B675FE2.4090404@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <hk9bee$j4f$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:12:34 +0100, Martin v. Loewis a ?crit?:
>> recv_into() should simply be fixed to use the new buffer API, as it
>> does in 3.x.
> 
> I don't think that's the full solution. The array module should also
> implement the new buffer API, so that it would also fail with the old
> recv_into.

There was a patch for this in http://bugs.python.org/issue6071 , but the 
bug was closed when hashlib was "fixed".




From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Feb  2 09:12:59 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:12:59 +0100
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
References: <mailman.1786.1265117058.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hk9bsn$ru2$00$1@news.t-online.com>

mk wrote:

> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-June/1209309.html

Peter


From no.email at please.post  Tue Feb  2 09:13:19 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:13:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>



Let me preface everything by thanking you and all those who
replied for their comments.

I have only one follow-up question (or rather, set of related
questions) that I'm very keen about, plus a bit of a vent at the
end.

In <pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

>As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without 
>breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0 
>was missed.

This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
the deliberations I'm looking for.)

~k

[NB: as I said before, what follows begins to slide into a vent,
and is quite unimportant; I've left it, for whatever grain of truth
it may contain, as an grossly overgrown PS; feel free to ignore
it, I'm *by far* most interested in the question stated in the
paragraph right above, because it will give me, I hope, a better
sense of where the biggest obstacles to fixing this problem lie.]

P.S. Yes, I see the backwards-compatibility problem, but that's
what rolling out a whole new versions is good for; it's a bit of
a fresh start.  I remember hearing GvR's Google Talk on the coming
Python 3, which was still in the works then, and being struck by
the sheer *modesty* of the proposed changes (while the developers
of the mythical Perl6 seemed to be on a quest for transcendence to
a Higher Plane of Programming, as they still are).  In particular
the business with print -> print() seemed truly bizarre to me: this
is a change that will break a *huge* volume of code, and yet,
judging by the rationale given for it, the change solves what are,
IMHO, a relatively minor annoyances.  Python's old print statement
is, I think, at most a tiny little zit invisible to all but those
obsessed with absolute perfection.  And I can't imagine that whatever
would be required to fix Python's import system could break more
code than redefining the rules for a workhorse like print.

In contrast, the Python import problem is a ticking bomb potentially
affecting all code that imports other modules.  All that needs to
happen is that, in a future release of Python, some new standard
module emerges (like numbers.py emerged in 2.6), and this module
is imported by some module your code imports.  Boom!  Note that it
was only coincidental that the bug I reported in this thread occurred
in a script I wrote recently.  I could have written both scripts
before 2.6 was released, and the new numbers.py along with it;
barring the uncanny clairvoyance of some responders, there would
have been, at the time, absolutely no plausible reason for not
naming one of the two scripts numbers.py.

To the argument that the import system can't be easily fixed because
it breaks existing code, one can reply that the *current* import
system already breaks existing code, as illustrated by the example
I've given in this thread: this could have easily been old pre-2.6
code that got broken just because Python decided to add numbers.py
to the distribution.  (Yes, Python can't guarantee that the names
of new standard modules won't clash with the names of existing
local modules, but this is true for Perl as well, and due to Perl's
module import scheme (and naming conventions), a scenario like the
one I presented in this thread would have been astronomically
improbable.  The Perl example shows that the design of the module
import scheme and naming conventions for standard modules can go
a long way to minimize the consequences of this unavoidable potential
for future name clashes.)




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 09:37:10 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:37:10 +0100
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
In-Reply-To: <hk9bsn$ru2$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.1786.1265117058.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk9bsn$ru2$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <hk9d8v$p2$1@ger.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:
> mk wrote:
> 
>> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
>> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-June/1209309.html
> 
> Peter

Thanks a lot! Just what I needed.

Regards,
mk




From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 09:47:30 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:47:30 -0500
Subject: Iterating over a function call
In-Reply-To: <hk7m6i$n4h$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <5d1a32001002010850n72a70455pb9ed77e6ff6366eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<hk7m6i$n4h$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002020647q29506c30s46ac98accc6098ca@mail.gmail.com>

[snip]
>> 2. side effect of (maybe) leaking the iterator variable "value" into
>> the code following the loop (if the iterator is not empty).
>
> So? it is sometime useful.

Except that you can't guarantee that it will be set since the for loop
will not execute if the iterable is empty.

>>
>> I can take care of 2 by explicitly deleting the variable at the end:
>>
>> ? ?del value
>>
>> but I'd probably forget to do that sometimes.
>
> So? If having 'value' bound breaks your subsequent code, I consider it
> buggy.

Quite so.  I just like to eliminate the possibility up front.  If
'value' is never bound, the the bug will show up sooner.


-- 
Gerald Britton


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  2 10:00:28 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:00:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-02, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <hk82uv$8kn$1 at reader1.panix.com>, kj <no.email at please.post> 
> wrote:
>
>> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
>> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
>> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
>> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.
>> [...]
>> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
>> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
>> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
>> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
>> mayhem*.
>
> I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.

I think it is.  There should be different syntax to import from
"standard" places and from "current directory".  Similar to the 
difference between "foo.h" and <foo.h> in cpp.

> The general
> pattern is:
>
> 1) You have something which refers to a resource by name.
>
> 2) There is a sequence of places which are searched for this
>    name.

Searching the current directory by default is the problem.
Nobody in their right mind has "." in the shell PATH and IMO it
shouldn't be in Python's import path either.  Even those
wreckless souls who do put "." in their path put it at the end
so they don't accidentally override system commands.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! So this is what it
                                  at               feels like to be potato
                               visi.com            salad


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  2 10:09:26 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:09:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python packet capture utility
References: <mailman.1778.1265096925.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hk9f76$qqc$2@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-02, VYAS ASHISH M-NTB837 <ashish.vyas at motorola.com> wrote:
>  
> Dear All
>
> I want to capture tcp packets in python. I need to do this on both
> Windows and Linux on python3.1
>
> I came across the following:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycap/
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pylibpcap/
> http://code.google.com/p/pypcap/
> http://oss.coresecurity.com/projects/pcapy.html
>
>
> I am not able to evaluate on my own.

And we're supposed to evaluate them for you?

      pycap:  last release 5/2003.

  pylibpcap:  last release 5/2008

      pycap:  last release 1/2007

      pcapy:  last release 3/2007

> Which one should I pick up?

I'd start with the newest one.  It's the one I use, and it
works fine for me.

> Priority is python3.1 support on both windows and Linux.

I don't think any of them support 3.1.

> I don't have to do many/complex operations. If it is not so
> programmer friendly I am OK.
>
> Also let me know if 2to3 would help here if there is not
> python3 support.

I'f you're not expereienced porting libraries from 2.4 to 3.1,
then you shouldn't be using 3.1.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Did you move a lot of
                                  at               KOREAN STEAK KNIVES this
                               visi.com            trip, Dingy?


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 10:12:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:12:02 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002020712h23fedd3g6e97368413633674@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:13 AM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

> In <pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> Steven
> D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>
> >As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
> >breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
> >was missed.
>
> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
> the deliberations I'm looking for.)
>

The problem with "fixing" the import system is that touching it in any way
potentially breaks *vast* volumes of code that works just right, right now
in any version of Python. It's not even something you can easily test:
there's a lot of edge-cases supporting various features that have been added
over the years. A pure-python import mechanism with a set of test-cases to
"prove" it reliably mimic'd the existing mechanism wasn't even complete by
the time Python3 came out, without that, any changes to "fix" Python3+'s
import system would just be a shot in the dark.

And there'd be no telling just /what/ it would break if you start changing
these very old import semantics.


> P.S. Yes, I see the backwards-compatibility problem, but that's
> what rolling out a whole new versions is good for; it's a bit of
> a fresh start.  I remember hearing GvR's Google Talk on the coming
> Python 3, which was still in the works then, and being struck by
> the sheer *modesty* of the proposed changes (while the developers
> of the mythical Perl6 seemed to be on a quest for transcendence to
> a Higher Plane of Programming, as they still are).


Yes, it was a relatively modest upgrade, thankfully so. We actually have our
fixed language, and Perl6 is coming on some point on the horizon. Python3
allowed backwards incompatible changes, but they still needed to have a
justification to them: and more importantly, they usually needed to change
from one well-defined state to a new, 'cleaner' well-defined state, so they
could be automatically corrected or at least easily found. The Bytes/Unicode
situation is one case where there wasn't a well-defined state you can
convert from, and so with Python3, every single string you really need to
look at and decide, "Should this have been bytes, or characters?".

Having to ask that question for every string is a significant burden, to
expect someone to have to ask the same sort of question for every single
import is asking -way- too much for people porting to Python 3.

Py3k's adoption is a slow, uphill process-- no one expected (from my reading
at least)-- it to take less then years and multiple 3.x iterations before
people would /really/ significantly start using it. There's too many third
party modules people depend on and they have to slowly be converted. They're
being converted, and IMHO there's steadily growing momentum on this (albeit
not huge momentum), but had they messed with the import semantics-- this
would be /way/ more difficult, and you might end up with a DOA project.


> In particular
> the business with print -> print() seemed truly bizarre to me: this
> is a change that will break a *huge* volume of code, and yet,
> judging by the rationale given for it, the change solves what are,
> IMHO, a relatively minor annoyances.  Python's old print statement
> is, I think, at most a tiny little zit invisible to all but those
> obsessed with absolute perfection.


You have a very strange perception of huge. For one thing, every single use
of print() can be converted -automatically-: the rules of this change are
very clear. The print statement was a bizarre sort of wart (look at >>!) and
fixing it is easy. Further, *huge* volume of code-- /really/?! In my
experience, print isn't really all /that/ common after you get out of the
tutorial and start doing real code. If you're doing lots of shell scripting
maybe that's not the case: but for any sort of server-daemon-process sort of
apps, print is utterly unacceptable. I use the logging module. For GUI apps,
same.

But for those times when you use print.. its /really easy/ to fix.

And I can't imagine that whatever
> would be required to fix Python's import system could break more
> code than redefining the rules for a workhorse like print.
>

Your imagination is lacking here then: virtually every single bit of Python
code uses import, and messing with it can have wide implications that you
can't even /define/ ahead of time. As such you can't write a guide, a 2to3
fixer, or a HOWTO to tell people: hey, this is how you used to do things in
Python2, this is how you do them in Python3. Having them mess with the
import machinery would be throwing every Py3 developer under the bus,
saying, "Well, just run it. Fix whatever errors happen."


> In contrast, the Python import problem is a ticking bomb potentially
> affecting all code that imports other modules.  All that needs to
> happen is that, in a future release of Python, some new standard
> module emerges (like numbers.py emerged in 2.6), and this module
> is imported by some module your code imports.  Boom!  Note that it
> was only coincidental that the bug I reported in this thread occurred
> in a script I wrote recently.  I could have written both scripts
> before 2.6 was released, and the new numbers.py along with it;
> barring the uncanny clairvoyance of some responders, there would
> have been, at the time, absolutely no plausible reason for not
> naming one of the two scripts numbers.py.
>

This is drifting into hyperbole; yes, Python's flat import namespace isn't
ideal, yes, it can mean that when a new version is released you may shadow
something you didn't before, yes, that can cause code to break. Its really,
really, really not anything like as bad as you're making it out to be.

Your bomb can be averted via:

    - Don't use relative imports.

    - Don't structure your code and environment such that your libs and/or
scripts end up living in the global namespace if you want to be
future-proof.

    - If you didn't future-proof your code, then check What's New on new
versions of Python.

There, time bomb disarmed.

To the argument that the import system can't be easily fixed because
> it breaks existing code, one can reply that the *current* import
> system already breaks existing code, as illustrated by the example
> I've given in this thread: this could have easily been old pre-2.6
> code that got broken just because Python decided to add numbers.py
> to the distribution.


Yes, one can make that argument, but it would be specious. Messing with the
import system -would- have broken code, and done so in a way which can not
be easily or clearly identified by looking at code directly, as you wouldn't
know "break" until you somehow took the /entire/ layout of the system into
account, which is infeasible.

The current import system -may- break code, if someone writes their code in
such a way, structures their code in such a way, and Python happens to add a
new item to its standard library which causes that code to now shadow a
standard module.

The former case, 'change the import system', requires someone look at every
single import, evaluate that import in the full context of the environment,
and determine if its working as intended or not.

The latter case, 'leave the non-ideal import system in place', requires
someone look at imports of top-level modules, and ensure that they don't
shadow built-ins. You don't need to know where all the sys.path items are,
you don't need to know if you're importing from a zip file, or anything like
that. You just need to see if your top-level / relative import is shadowing
a new standard library module or not.

Yes, the latter case means that if you are supporting new Python versions
that come out, you'll have to make that evaluation with each one if you
decide not to code and structure your code in such a way that it is
future-proof.


> (Yes, Python can't guarantee that the names
> of new standard modules won't clash with the names of existing
> local modules, but this is true for Perl as well, and due to Perl's
> module import scheme (and naming conventions), a scenario like the
> one I presented in this thread would have been astronomically
> improbable.  The Perl example shows that the design of the module
> import scheme and naming conventions for standard modules can go
> a long way to minimize the consequences of this unavoidable potential
> for future name clashes.)
>

Again: It is very, very avoidable.

I know, cuz I've sorta been avoiding it easily and successfully for years
now :P

--S
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From bartc at freeuk.com  Tue Feb  2 10:23:37 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:23:37 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ZrX9n.34661$Ym4.20954@text.news.virginmedia.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
>  foo();       # Call 'foo' with no args.
>  $bar = foo;  # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
>  $bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
>               # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
>  $bar->()     # Call whatever '$bar' is pointing at with no args
>
> Compare with python:
>
>  foo()       # Call 'foo' with no args.
>  bar = foo() # 'bar' is now pointing to whatever 'foo()' returned
>  bar = foo   # 'bar' is now pointing to the same thing 'foo' points to
>  bar()       # Call 'bar' with no args
>
> One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> function calls with references.

If you get rid of the syntax specific to Perl, then having to explicitly
obtain a function reference, or to dereference the result, is not such a big
deal:

 foo          # Call 'foo' with no args.
 bar = foo    # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to 'bar'
 bar = &foo   # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to 'bar'
 bar^         # Call whatever 'bar' is pointing at with no args

(Here I use ^ instead of -> to dereference.)  Compared with Python, it saves
3 lots of (), but needs & and ^ added. Still a net saving.

> One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious.

I'd say that having this "&" symbol in front of "foo" makes it more obvious
than just foo by itself. But I agree not quite as clean.

Another thing is that you have to know whether "bar" is a function, or a 
function ref, and use the appropriate syntax. Sometimes this is helpful, 
sometimes not.


-- 
Bartc




From masklinn at masklinn.net  Tue Feb  2 11:28:52 2010
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:28:52 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
Message-ID: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>To add a custom level, I would proceed that way:
>
>logging.ALERT = 45
>logging.addLevelName(logging.ALERT, 'ALERT !!')
>logging.getLogger().log(logging.ALERT, 'test')
>
>Passing a string to the log method as you did is incorrect.

I know it's currently incorrect. My point was more along the line that there was *no reason* for it to be incorrect. logging already contains all the tools for log('PANTS_ON_FIRE') to be allowed

>Regarding your first point, I guess it's anti pattern. One way to do it:
>1/ Configure the root logger with the lowest value 0, so the root logger 
>does not filter any level.
>2/ Configure each of your logger with the correct level
>
>That way you can configure your '0' logger as you (badly :o)) named it 
>with one level, and configure a potential '1' logger with another level. 
>Don't bother with propagation. That way you won't need to duplicate your 
>handlers on every logger.

re logger 0, no need for complex name for a test case (and it allowed me to create easy-to-remember 0.1 and 0.1.2 if needed)

Re your answer, from what I understand you want the root logger to NOTSET and then each child logger with its correct level? But that's not a solution, each and every level will *still* require a handler explicitly configured on it. That's in fact very much my issue: logging refuses that a logger be handler-less in a config file, it's mandatory to configure a handler any time a logger is configured.

From edreamleo at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 11:36:24 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:36:24 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7 b3 released
Message-ID: <s1lgm51abvial67ol3u7qagik8iu8fb65l@4ax.com>

Leo 4.7 beta 3                       February 2, 2009

Leo 4.7 beta 3 is now available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106

Leo 4.7 beta 3 fixes all known serious bugs in Leo.

Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more.
See:
http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

The highlights of Leo 4.7:
--------------------------

- Leo now uses the simplest possible internal data model.
  This is the so-called "one-node" world.
- Leo supports Python 3.x.
- Leo requires Python 2.6 or above.
- Several important improvements in file handling.
    - Leo converts @file nodes to @thin nodes automatically.
    - @auto-rst now works much more reliably reliably.
    - Leo no longer @noref trees.  Such trees are not
      reliable in cooperative environments.
- A new Windows installer.
- Many other features, including new command line options and new
plugins.
- Dozens of bug fixes.

Edward K. Ream

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Forum:    http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
Bzr:      http://code.launchpad.net/leo-editor/
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 11:42:12 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:42:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No return to the parent function
Message-ID: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

I've a main function called i.e. *foo()* which has a block of code
that is repetead several times (for the error catching code and error
reporting), but that code has a return to exit of *foo()*

-----------
foo():
  ...
    if self.background:
        _log.exception(str(error))
        return ReturnCode.ERROR, None
    else:
        raise NameError(error)

-----------

So I would tu put that code block into a separated function (*throw()
*), but the problem is that it returns to the parent function (foo()).
How to solve it?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  2 11:52:48 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:52:48 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>
Message-ID: <4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>

Masklinn wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> To add a custom level, I would proceed that way:
>>
>> logging.ALERT = 45
>> logging.addLevelName(logging.ALERT, 'ALERT !!')
>> logging.getLogger().log(logging.ALERT, 'test')
>>
>> Passing a string to the log method as you did is incorrect.
>>     
>
> I know it's currently incorrect. My point was more along the line that there was *no reason* for it to be incorrect. logging already contains all the tools for log('PANTS_ON_FIRE') to be allowed
>   
The reason is that log takes an *int* as first argument that defines the 
logging level. You gave a string. So There is definitely a reason for it 
to be incorrect.
>   
>> Regarding your first point, I guess it's anti pattern. One way to do it:
>> 1/ Configure the root logger with the lowest value 0, so the root logger 
>> does not filter any level.
>> 2/ Configure each of your logger with the correct level
>>
>> That way you can configure your '0' logger as you (badly :o)) named it 
>> with one level, and configure a potential '1' logger with another level. 
>> Don't bother with propagation. That way you won't need to duplicate your 
>> handlers on every logger.
>>     
>
> re logger 0, no need for complex name for a test case (and it allowed me to create easy-to-remember 0.1 and 0.1.2 if needed)
>
> Re your answer, from what I understand you want the root logger to NOTSET and then each child logger with its correct level? But that's not a solution, each and every level will *still* require a handler explicitly configured on it. That's in fact very much my issue: logging refuses that a logger be handler-less in a config file, it's mandatory to configure a handler any time a logger is configured.
>   
the field handlers must be defined even if empty.

[loggers]
keys=root,0,1

[handlers]
keys=console

[formatters]
keys=simple

[logger_root]
level=DEBUG
handlers=console

[logger_1]
level=INFO
qualname=1
handlers=

[logger_0]
level=DEBUG
qualname=0
handlers=

[handler_console]
class=StreamHandler
formatter=simple
args=()

[formatter_simple]
format=%(asctime)s:%(levelname)-8s:%(name)s::%(message)s


import logging; import logging.config
logging.config.fileConfig("log.config")
l1 = logging.getLogger("1")
l0 = logging.getLogger("0")
l1.debug('I am l1')
...
l0.debug('I am l0')
... 2010-02-02 17:48:55,710:DEBUG   :0::I am l0

JM


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  2 11:55:58 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:55:58 +0000
Subject: No return to the parent function
References: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2vdefzie9.fsf@googlemail.com>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> I've a main function called i.e. *foo()* which has a block of code
> that is repetead several times (for the error catching code and error
> reporting), but that code has a return to exit of *foo()*
>
> -----------
> foo():
>   ...
>     if self.background:
>         _log.exception(str(error))
>         return ReturnCode.ERROR, None
>     else:
>         raise NameError(error)
>
> -----------
>
> So I would tu put that code block into a separated function (*throw()
> *), but the problem is that it returns to the parent function (foo()).
> How to solve it?

If I understand correctly, you can simply do this:

def throw(...):
    if ...:
        ...
        return ...
    else:
        raise ...

def foo():
    ...
    return throw(...)

HTH

I.e. if throw returns something, foo returns it as well.  If throw
raises an exception, it will go through foo.  Is this what you want?

-- 
Arnaud


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:00:45 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:00:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No return to the parent function
References: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vdefzie9.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4aded884-b81e-45d6-be08-39e064fbe184@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 2 feb, 16:55, Arnaud Delobelle <arno... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> writes:
> > I've a main function called i.e. *foo()* which has a block of code
> > that is repetead several times (for the error catching code and error
> > reporting), but that code has a return to exit of *foo()*
>
> > -----------
> > foo():
> > ? ...
> > ? ? if self.background:
> > ? ? ? ? _log.exception(str(error))
> > ? ? ? ? return ReturnCode.ERROR, None
> > ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? raise NameError(error)
>
> > -----------
>
> > So I would tu put that code block into a separated function (*throw()
> > *), but the problem is that it returns to the parent function (foo()).
> > How to solve it?
>
> If I understand correctly, you can simply do this:
>
> def throw(...):
> ? ? if ...:
> ? ? ? ? ...
> ? ? ? ? return ...
> ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? raise ...
>
> def foo():
> ? ? ...
> ? ? return throw(...)
>
> HTH
>
> I.e. if throw returns something, foo returns it as well. ?If throw
> raises an exception, it will go through foo. ?Is this what you want?
>
> --
> Arnaud

Yes, that is it. It was more simple that I had thinked, thanks!


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Feb  2 12:02:10 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:02:10 +0000
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:00:28 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:

>>> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
>>> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
>>> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
>>> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
>>> mayhem*.
>>
>> I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.
> 
> I think it is.

I agree.

> There should be different syntax to import from
> "standard" places and from "current directory".  Similar to the 
> difference between "foo.h" and <foo.h> in cpp.

I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
than in the process' CWD.

As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
lexically scoped.

>> The general
>> pattern is:
>>
>> 1) You have something which refers to a resource by name.
>>
>> 2) There is a sequence of places which are searched for this
>>    name.
> 
> Searching the current directory by default is the problem.
> Nobody in their right mind has "." in the shell PATH and IMO it
> shouldn't be in Python's import path either.  Even those
> wreckless souls who do put "." in their path put it at the end
> so they don't accidentally override system commands.

Except, what should be happening here is that it should be searching the
directory containing the file performing the import *first*. If foo.py
contains "import bar", and there's a bar.py in the same directory as
foo.py, that's the one it should be using.

The existing behaviour is simply wrong, and there's no excuse for it
("but it's easier to implement" isn't a legitimate argument).

The only situation where the process' CWD should be used is for an import
statement in a non-file source (i.e. stdin or the argument to the -c
switch).



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Feb  2 12:08:54 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:08:54 +0000
Subject: No return to the parent function
In-Reply-To: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <69ee6209-074f-4d2a-b6e6-698bb63f3f88@n7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B685C26.3060601@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Joan Miller wrote:
> I've a main function called i.e. *foo()* which has a block of code
> that is repetead several times (for the error catching code and error
> reporting), but that code has a return to exit of *foo()*
> 
> -----------
> foo():
>   ...
>     if self.background:
>         _log.exception(str(error))
>         return ReturnCode.ERROR, None
>     else:
>         raise NameError(error)
> 
> -----------
> 
> So I would tu put that code block into a separated function (*throw()
> *), but the problem is that it returns to the parent function (foo()).
> How to solve it?

Call it in a return statement.


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  2 12:20:41 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:20:41 +0100
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <hk9mta$1tb$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Nobody:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:00:28 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>>>> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
>>>> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
>>>> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
>>>> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
>>>> mayhem*.
>>> I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.
>> I think it is.
> 
> I agree.
> 
>> There should be different syntax to import from
>> "standard" places and from "current directory".  Similar to the 
>> difference between "foo.h" and <foo.h> in cpp.
> 
> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
> than in the process' CWD.
> 
> As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
> lexically scoped.
> 
>>> The general
>>> pattern is:
>>>
>>> 1) You have something which refers to a resource by name.
>>>
>>> 2) There is a sequence of places which are searched for this
>>>    name.
>> Searching the current directory by default is the problem.
>> Nobody in their right mind has "." in the shell PATH and IMO it
>> shouldn't be in Python's import path either.  Even those
>> wreckless souls who do put "." in their path put it at the end
>> so they don't accidentally override system commands.
> 
> Except, what should be happening here is that it should be searching the
> directory containing the file performing the import *first*. If foo.py
> contains "import bar", and there's a bar.py in the same directory as
> foo.py, that's the one it should be using.
> 
> The existing behaviour is simply wrong, and there's no excuse for it
> ("but it's easier to implement" isn't a legitimate argument).

+1


> The only situation where the process' CWD should be used is for an import
> statement in a non-file source (i.e. stdin or the argument to the -c
> switch).

Hm, not sure about that last.


Cheers,

- Alf


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  2 13:29:54 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:29:54 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hk9qv2$q8b$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/2/2010 9:13 AM, kj wrote:

>> As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
>> breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
>> was missed.
>
> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
> the deliberations I'm looking for.)

There was a proposal to put the whole stdlib into a gigantic package, so 
that

import itertools

would become, for instance

import std.itertools.

Guido rejected that. I believe he both did not like it and was concerned 
about making upgrade to 3.x even harder. The discussion was probably on 
the now closed py3k list.

Terry Jan Reedy



From tinnews at isbd.co.uk  Tue Feb  2 13:32:46 2010
From: tinnews at isbd.co.uk (tinnews at isbd.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:32:46 +0000
Subject: What's this vText() annotation mean?
Message-ID: <en7m37-mlc.ln1@chris.isbd.net>

What does this vText() annotation mean in a returned list:-

    [['Apr 19', vText(u'PAYE'), ''], ['Mar 31', vText(u'VAT'), ''], ['May 19', vText(u'Year end PAYE'), '']]

I *guess* it's some sort of indication of non-constant text, I need a
way to make it constant (well, to get a constant copy of it) because a
function I'm passing it to is complaining about a type mismatch:-

    TypeError: in method 'Fl_Input__value', argument 2 of type 'char const *'

-- 
Chris Green



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 13:38:53 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:38:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com> 
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <deb07bff-e9ef-4384-a206-c5aad551ef85@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 9:02?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
> than in the process' CWD.
>
> As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
> lexically scoped.

Mostly incorrect.  The CWD is in sys.path only for interactive
sessions, and when started with -c switch.  When running scripts, the
directory where the script is located is used instead, not the
process's working directory.

So, no, it isn't anything like dynamic scoping.


> The only situation where the process' CWD should be used is for an import
> statement in a non-file source (i.e. stdin or the argument to the -c
> switch).

It already is that way, chief.

I think you're misunderstanding what's wrong here; the CWD doesn't
have anything to do with it.  Even if CWD isn't in the path you still
get the bad behavior kj noted.  So now what?

Python's importing can be improved but there's no foolproof way to get
rid of the fundamental problem of name clashes.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 13:45:07 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:45:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 2:49?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
> > Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
> > library module of related functions, "email_handling.py". ?Modules and
> > scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
> > names.
>
> > (**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
> > an "innocuous" name, It can.
>
> That does not solve anything,

Of course it does, it solves the problem of having poorly-named
modules.  It also helps reduce possibility of name clashes.

> if the smtplib follows your advice, then
> you'll be shadowing its send_email module.
> The only way to avoid collision would be to name your module
> __PDSFLSDF_send_email__13221sdfsdf__.py

I know, and as we all know accidental name clashes are the end of the
world and Mother Python should protect us feeble victims from any
remote possibility of ever having a name clash.


Carl Banks


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  2 14:00:21 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:00:21 +0000
Subject: What's this vText() annotation mean?
References: <en7m37-mlc.ln1@chris.isbd.net>
Message-ID: <m2r5p3zcmy.fsf@googlemail.com>

tinnews at isbd.co.uk writes:

> What does this vText() annotation mean in a returned list:-
>
>     [['Apr 19', vText(u'PAYE'), ''], 

It means your list contains an instance of a class whose __repr__()
method returns "vText(u'PAYE')".  If it follows common practice, the
class is probably named "vText".  You are likely to be importing and
using a module that defines a class called "vText".  I don't know such a
module, I don't think it's in the standard library so it would be useful
if you gave more details about the context.

A quick google for "vtext python" yields something about an iCalendar
package for python.  Is it what you are using?

-- 
Arnaud


From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Feb  2 14:01:21 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:01:21 +0100
Subject: recv_into(bytearray) complains about a "pinned buffer"
In-Reply-To: <942aa99d-1bc1-4aa8-867a-6366cb3668a1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <8dff1c70-c141-4f0e-aebb-3a92733b272b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B663CE0.4030302@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.1725.1265026015.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B675FE2.4090404@v.loewis.de>
	<942aa99d-1bc1-4aa8-867a-6366cb3668a1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hk9sq2$pnl$1@online.de>

> Clearly it was added to work with an array, and it's
> being used with an array. Why shouldn't people use it
> with Python 2.x?

Because it's not thread-safe; it may crash the interpreter if used
incorrectly.

Of course, if you don't share the array across threads, it can be safe
to use.

Regards,
Martin


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  2 14:07:48 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:07:48 +0100
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B687804.6070005@sequans.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2:49 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>     
>>> Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
>>> library module of related functions, "email_handling.py".  Modules and
>>> scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
>>> names.
>>>       
>>> (**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
>>> an "innocuous" name, It can.
>>>       
>> That does not solve anything,
>>     
>
> Of course it does, it solves the problem of having poorly-named
> modules.  It also helps reduce possibility of name clashes.
>   

Actually don't you think it will increase the possibility ? There are 
much less possibilties of properly naming an object than badly naming it.
So if everybody tend to properly name their object with their obvious 
version like you proposed, the set of possible names will decrease, 
increasing the clash ratio.

I'm just nitpicking by the way, but it may be better to ask for better 
namespacing instead of naming (which is good thing but unrelated to the 
OP issue).

JM




From no.email at please.post  Tue Feb  2 14:43:40 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:43:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list at python.org> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>On 2/2/2010 9:13 AM, kj wrote:

>>> As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
>>> breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
>>> was missed.
>>
>> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
>> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
>> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
>> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
>> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
>> the deliberations I'm looking for.)

>There was a proposal to put the whole stdlib into a gigantic package, so 
>that

>import itertools

>would become, for instance

>import std.itertools.

>Guido rejected that. I believe he both did not like it and was concerned 
>about making upgrade to 3.x even harder. The discussion was probably on 
>the now closed py3k list.


Thanks.  I'll look for this thread.

~K


From MLMDev at Comcast.net  Tue Feb  2 15:14:27 2010
From: MLMDev at Comcast.net (Mitchell L Model)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:14:27 -0500
Subject: lists as an efficient implementation of large two-dimensional
	arrays(!)
Message-ID: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>

An instructive lesson in YAGNI ("you aren't going to need it"),  
premature optimization, and not making assumptions about Python data  
structure implementations.

I need a 1000 x 1000 two-dimensional array of objects. (Since they are  
instances of application classes it appears that the array module is  
useless; likewise, since I am using Python 3.1, so among other things,  
I can't use numpy or its relatives.) The usage pattern is that the  
array is first completely filled with objects. Later, objects are  
sometimes accessed individually by row and column and often the entire  
array is iterated over.

Worried (unnecessarily, as it turns out) by the prospect of 1,000,000  
element list I started by constructing a dictionary with the keys 1  
through 1000, each of which had as its value another dictionary with  
the keys 1 through 1000. Actual values were the values of the second  
level dictionary.

Using numbers to fill the array to minimize the effect of creating my  
more complex objects, and running Python 3.1.1 on an 8-core Mac Pro  
with 8Gb memory, I tried the following

#create and fill the array:
t1 = time.time()
d2 = {}
for j in range(1000):
     d2[j] = dict()
     for k in range(1000):
         d2[j][k] = k
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.41

# access each element of the array:
t1 = time.time()
for j in range(1000):
     for k in range(1000):
         elt = d2[j][k]
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.55

  My program was too slow, so I started investigating whether I could  
improve on the two-level dictionary, which got used a lot. To get  
another baseline I tried a pure 1,000,000-element list, expecting the  
times to be be horrendous, but look!

# fill a list using append
t1 = time.time()
lst = []
for n in range(1000000):
     lst.append(n)
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.26

# access every element of a list
t1 = time.time()
for n in range(1000000):
     elt = lst[n]
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.25

What a shock! I could save half the execution time and all my clever  
work and awkward double-layer dictionary expressions by just using a  
list!

Even better, look what happens using a comprehension to create the  
list instead of a loop with list.append:

t1 = time.time()
lst = [n for n in range(1000000)]
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.11

Half again to create the list.

Iterating over the whole list is easier and faster than iterating over  
the double-level dictionary, in particular because it doesn't involve  
a two-level loop. But what about individual access given a row and a  
column?

t1 = time.time()
for j in range(1000):
     for k in range(1000):
         elt = lst[j * 1000 + k]
print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))

0.45

This is the same as for the dictionary.

I tried a two-level list and a few other things but still haven't  
found anything that works better than a single long list -- just like  
2-D arrays are coded in old-style languages, with indices computed as  
offsets from the beginning of the linear sequence of all the values.  
What's amazing is that creating and accessing 1,000,000-element list  
in Python is so efficient. The usual moral obtains: start simple,  
analyze problems (functional or performance) as they arise, decide  
whether they are worth the cost of change, then change in very limited  
ways. And of course abstract and modularize so that, in my case, for  
example, none of the program's code would be affected by the change  
from a two-level dictionary representation to using a single long list.

I realize there are many directions an analysis like this can follow,  
and many factors affecting it, including patterns of use. I just  
wanted to demonstrate the basics for a situation that I just  
encountered. In particular, if the array was sparse, rather than  
completely full, the two-level dictionary implementation would be the  
natural representation.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 15:26:16 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 11:07?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
> > On Feb 2, 2:49 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Carl Banks wrote:
>
> >>> Name your modules "send_email.py" or "sort_email.py" or if it's a
> >>> library module of related functions, "email_handling.py". ?Modules and
> >>> scripts do things (usually), they should be given action words as
> >>> names.
>
> >>> (**) Questionable though it be, if the Standard Library wants to use
> >>> an "innocuous" name, It can.
>
> >> That does not solve anything,
>
> > Of course it does, it solves the problem of having poorly-named
> > modules. ?It also helps reduce possibility of name clashes.
>
> Actually don't you think it will increase the possibility ? There are
> much less possibilties of properly naming an object than badly naming it.

You've got to be kidding me, you're saying that a bad name like
email.py is less likely to clash than a more descriptive name like
send_email.py?

> So if everybody tend to properly name their object with their obvious
> version like you proposed, the set of possible names will decrease,
> increasing the clash ratio.

I did not propose obvious module names.  I said obvious names like
email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are
better.


Carl Banks


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 15:36:45 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:36:45 -0500
Subject: lists as an efficient implementation of large two-dimensional 
	arrays(!)
In-Reply-To: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
References: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002021236s5f2e5eb2o5535258567921039@mail.gmail.com>

Did you try it with an array object using the array module?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Mitchell L Model <MLMDev at comcast.net> wrote:
> An instructive lesson in YAGNI ("you aren't going to need it"), premature
> optimization, and not making assumptions about Python data structure
> implementations.
>
> I need a 1000 x 1000 two-dimensional array of objects. (Since they are
> instances of application classes it appears that the array module is
> useless; likewise, since I am using Python 3.1, so among other things, I
> can't use numpy or its relatives.) The usage pattern is that the array is
> first completely filled with objects. Later, objects are sometimes accessed
> individually by row and column and often the entire array is iterated over.
>
> Worried (unnecessarily, as it turns out) by the prospect of 1,000,000
> element list I started by constructing a dictionary with the keys 1 through
> 1000, each of which had as its value another dictionary with the keys 1
> through 1000. Actual values were the values of the second level dictionary.
>
> Using numbers to fill the array to minimize the effect of creating my more
> complex objects, and running Python 3.1.1 on an 8-core Mac Pro with 8Gb
> memory, I tried the following
>
> #create and fill the array:
> t1 = time.time()
> d2 = {}
> for j in range(1000):
> ? ?d2[j] = dict()
> ? ?for k in range(1000):
> ? ? ? ?d2[j][k] = k
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.41
>
> # access each element of the array:
> t1 = time.time()
> for j in range(1000):
> ? ?for k in range(1000):
> ? ? ? ?elt = d2[j][k]
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.55
>
> ?My program was too slow, so I started investigating whether I could improve
> on the two-level dictionary, which got used a lot. To get another baseline I
> tried a pure 1,000,000-element list, expecting the times to be be
> horrendous, but look!
>
> # fill a list using append
> t1 = time.time()
> lst = []
> for n in range(1000000):
> ? ?lst.append(n)
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.26
>
> # access every element of a list
> t1 = time.time()
> for n in range(1000000):
> ? ?elt = lst[n]
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.25
>
> What a shock! I could save half the execution time and all my clever work
> and awkward double-layer dictionary expressions by just using a list!
>
> Even better, look what happens using a comprehension to create the list
> instead of a loop with list.append:
>
> t1 = time.time()
> lst = [n for n in range(1000000)]
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.11
>
> Half again to create the list.
>
> Iterating over the whole list is easier and faster than iterating over the
> double-level dictionary, in particular because it doesn't involve a
> two-level loop. But what about individual access given a row and a column?
>
> t1 = time.time()
> for j in range(1000):
> ? ?for k in range(1000):
> ? ? ? ?elt = lst[j * 1000 + k]
> print( round(time.time() - t1, 2))
>
> 0.45
>
> This is the same as for the dictionary.
>
> I tried a two-level list and a few other things but still haven't found
> anything that works better than a single long list -- just like 2-D arrays
> are coded in old-style languages, with indices computed as offsets from the
> beginning of the linear sequence of all the values. What's amazing is that
> creating and accessing 1,000,000-element list in Python is so efficient. The
> usual moral obtains: start simple, analyze problems (functional or
> performance) as they arise, decide whether they are worth the cost of
> change, then change in very limited ways. And of course abstract and
> modularize so that, in my case, for example, none of the program's code
> would be affected by the change from a two-level dictionary representation
> to using a single long list.
>
> I realize there are many directions an analysis like this can follow, and
> many factors affecting it, including patterns of use. I just wanted to
> demonstrate the basics for a situation that I just encountered. In
> particular, if the array was sparse, rather than completely full, the
> two-level dictionary implementation would be the natural representation.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From xahlee at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 15:40:13 2010
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:40:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
Message-ID: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
freenode.net.

Here's a log:

2010-02-02

(12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL | http://pound-python.org/
| It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
http://paste.pocoo.org/ | Tutorial: http://docs.python.org/tut/ | FAQ:
http://effbot.org/pyfaq/ | New Programmer? Read http://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
| #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
#python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
offtopic
(12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
actually.
(12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
(12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
(12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
(12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
etc) right is quite tricky
(12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
wondering whats up with the python verison :D
(12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
(12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

---------------

I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From alan at baselinedata.co.uk  Tue Feb  2 15:50:28 2010
From: alan at baselinedata.co.uk (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:50:28 +0000
Subject: Threading issue with SQLite
In-Reply-To: <09ca16b8-4e10-40f5-a69d-29fcdf6c2593@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1612.1264783064.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<09ca16b8-4e10-40f5-a69d-29fcdf6c2593@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B689014.9090801@baselinedata.co.uk>


Many thanks to all who replied to my questions re. SQLite connections, 
cursors and threading.

Looks like I have got some reading to do regarding connection pooling and
a decent SQLite ORM package.  Does anyone know of any which are Python 3 
compatible?

Many thanks,
Alanj


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  2 15:54:25 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:54:25 +0100
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
Message-ID: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving into the 
details of the Python language.

It's just a few pages yet, file [03 asd.pdf] (no real title yet!) at <url: 
http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> which is at Google Docs.

The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether this text 
is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any improvements that 
could be made.


Cheers,

- Alf


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Feb  2 15:57:11 2010
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:57:11 -0000
Subject: lists as an efficient implementation of large two-dimensional
	arrays(!)
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002021236s5f2e5eb2o5535258567921039@mail.gmail.com>
References: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
	<5d1a32001002021236s5f2e5eb2o5535258567921039@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100202205711.26099.185894442.divmod.xquotient.82@localhost.localdomain>

On 08:36 pm, gerald.britton at gmail.com wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Mitchell L Model <MLMDev at comcast.net> 
>wrote:
>>I need a 1000 x 1000 two-dimensional array of objects. (Since they are
>>instances of application classes it appears that the array module is
>>useless;

>Did you try it with an array object using the array module?

Jean-Paul


From astan.chee at al.com.au  Tue Feb  2 16:07:50 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:07:50 +1100
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
In-Reply-To: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>
References: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B689426.1070400@al.com.au>

Hi,
Sorry for being vague but here my question about converting an xml into 
a dict. I found some examples online but none gives the dict/result I 
want. The xml looks like this:
<doc>
    <stats name="position1" description="Calculation statistics"
kind="position">
    <stats name="time" description="Timing summary" kind="section">
        <string name="timersNote" description="Note:">This is the note
on calculation times</string>
        <stats name="timers" kind="timers">

        <timer name="totaltime" description="Total time">
            <elapsed>609.081574</elapsed>
            <user>2531.972081</user>
            <system>65.119100</system>
        </timer>
        <timer name="partialTimer" description="Gravitational Displacement">
            <elapsed>1772.011230</elapsed>
        </timer>
        <stats name="subTimers" description="All non-phased time" 
kind="timers">
            <timer name="subATimer" description="Phase time A">
            <elapsed>72.418861</elapsed>
            </timer>

            <timer name="subBTimer" description="Phase time B">
            <elapsed>28.285192</elapsed>
            </timer>
            <timer name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
            <elapsed>0.000</elapsed>
            </timer>
        </stats>
        <timer name="endTime" description="End">
            <elapsed>607.432373</elapsed>
        </timer>
        </stats>
    </stats>
    <stats name="space" description="Space usage summary" kind="section">
        <stats name="systemSpace" description="System Space">
        <memory name="heapSpace" description="Total Space">
            <peak>4833280000</peak>

            <current>4833280000</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="spaceResidentSize" description="Space resident size">
            <peak>4182777856</peak>
            <current>4182777856</current>
        </memory>
        <int name="pageMem">1</int>

        <int name="memReclaims">1943498</int>
        <int name="memSwaps">0</int>
        </stats>
        <stats name="subsystems" kind="memstats">
        <memory name="geoSpace" description="Geo-Space">
            <peak>1640100156</peak>
            <current>411307840</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="gridSpace" description="Grid-Space">
            <peak>709596712</peak>
            <current>1406752</current>
        </memory>
        <memory name="spaceMem" description="Space memory">
            <peak>737720720</peak>
            <current>0</current>
        </memory>
                <memory name="endTime" description="End">
            <peak>607.432373</peak>
        </memory>
        </stats>
            <memory name="subsystemSpace" description="Subsystem space
total">
        <peak>5164184694</peak>
        <current>2054715622</current>
        </memory>
   
    </stats>
    </stats>
 </doc>

using this script (taken from http://code.activestate.com/recipes/410469/):
from xml.etree import cElementTree as ElementTree

class XmlListConfig(list):
    def __init__(self, aList):
        for element in aList:
            if element:
                # treat like dict
                if len(element) == 1 or element[0].tag != element[1].tag:
                    self.append(XmlDictConfig(element))
                # treat like list
                elif element[0].tag == element[1].tag:
                    self.append(XmlListConfig(element))
            elif element.text:
                text = element.text.strip()
                if text:
                    self.append(text)


class XmlDictConfig(dict):
    '''
    Example usage:

    >>> tree = ElementTree.parse('your_file.xml')
    >>> root = tree.getroot()
    >>> xmldict = XmlDictConfig(root)

    Or, if you want to use an XML string:

    >>> root = ElementTree.XML(xml_string)
    >>> xmldict = XmlDictConfig(root)

    And then use xmldict for what it is... a dict.
    '''
    def __init__(self, parent_element):
        if parent_element.items():
            self.update(dict(parent_element.items()))
        for element in parent_element:
            if element:
                # treat like dict - we assume that if the first two tags
                # in a series are different, then they are all different.
                if len(element) == 1 or element[0].tag != element[1].tag:
                    aDict = XmlDictConfig(element)
                # treat like list - we assume that if the first two tags
                # in a series are the same, then the rest are the same.
                else:
                    # here, we put the list in dictionary; the key is the
                    # tag name the list elements all share in common, and
                    # the value is the list itself
                    aDict = {element[0].tag: XmlListConfig(element)}
                # if the tag has attributes, add those to the dict
                if element.items():
                    aDict.update(dict(element.items()))
                self.update({element.tag: aDict})
            # this assumes that if you've got an attribute in a tag,
            # you won't be having any text. This may or may not be a
            # good idea -- time will tell. It works for the way we are
            # currently doing XML configuration files...
            elif element.items():
                self.update({element.tag: dict(element.items())})
            # finally, if there are no child tags and no attributes, extract
            # the text
            else:
                self.update({element.tag: element.text})
           
tree = ElementTree.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()

xmldict = XmlDictConfig(root)
print xmldict

Which I get this dict:
{'stats': {'kind': 'position', 'stats': [{'kind': 'section', 'stats': 
{'kind': 'timers', 'name': 'timers', 'timer': [{'system': '65.119100', 
'user': '2531.972081', 'elapsed': '609.081574', 'name': 'totaltime', 
'description': 'Total time'}, {'elapsed': '1772.011230', 'name': 
'partialTimer', 'description': 'Gravitational Displacement'}, 
[{'elapsed': '72.418861', 'name': 'subATimer', 'description': 'Phase 
time A'}, {'elapsed': '28.285192', 'name': 'subBTimer', 'description': 
'Phase time B'}, {'elapsed': '0.000', 'name': 'spaceMem', 'description': 
'Space memory'}], {'elapsed': '607.432373', 'name': 'endTime', 
'description': 'End'}]}, 'name': 'time', 'string': {'name': 
'timersNote', 'description': 'Note:'}, 'description': 'Timing summary'}, 
[[{'current': '4833280000', 'peak': '4833280000', 'name': 'heapSpace', 
'description': 'Total Space'}, {'current': '4182777856', 'peak': 
'4182777856', 'name': 'spaceResidentSize', 'description': 'Space 
resident size'}, '1', '1943498', '0'], [{'current': '411307840', 'peak': 
'1640100156', 'name': 'geoSpace', 'description': 'Geo-Space'}, 
{'current': '1406752', 'peak': '709596712', 'name': 'gridSpace', 
'description': 'Grid-Space'}, {'current': '0', 'peak': '737720720', 
'name': 'spaceMem', 'description': 'Space memory'}, {'peak': 
'607.432373', 'name': 'endTime', 'description': 'End'}], {'current': 
'2054715622', 'peak': '5164184694', 'name': 'subsystemSpace', 
'description': 'Subsystem space  total'}]], 'name': 'position1', 
'description': 'Calculation statistics'}}

Which is kinda wrong. I expect the dict to have the "Space usage 
summary", but it doesn't (duplicate?). What am I doing wrong here?
I am attempting to keep the attribute value of an XML as key (if it 
doesn't have a value, then just the tag name will do) and associate it 
with the text value of that tag/attribute value as well as reflecting 
the hierarchy structure of the XML in the dict. Does this make sense?
Anyway, the python script above is just the first step or an example for me.
Cheers and thanks again
Astan



From python at rcn.com  Tue Feb  2 16:22:55 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:22:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <1fe7535b-34dc-46ba-9807-bd1e8cf69a9c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 12:54?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether this text
> is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any improvements that
> could be made.

To my eyes it reads nicely.  You may want to try it out on a real
beginner to get their feedback.

I like your section on assertions.  You could add examples of other
ways assertions can be used (loop invariants, sanity checks, post-
condition contract checks).  For example, validate a loop invariant
during a selection sort.  In the hypot() example, use an assertion for
sanity checking by verifying an expected mathematical relationship
such as the triangle inequality:  assert abs(c) <= abs(a) + abs(b).
The pythagorean triple example can use assertions to check post
conditions:  assert all(isinstance(x, int) for x in (a,b,c)) and a*a
+b*b==c*c.

Raymond



From andrewt.herd at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 16:25:07 2010
From: andrewt.herd at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:25:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyQt4 designer custom properties - combo box style
Message-ID: <f96f074b-69c9-4aca-8a81-483282d8f6eb@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

I am creating custom widgets for the PyQt4 Designer. I can create
custom properties, but I'm looking for how to create a custom property
that has a combo box drop down. I've seen them in the example widgets
and tried following them, but they are using pre-defined items to
populate their property, so it's not a very clear example of how to
get the combo box property to work.

Is there any other examples or help for this kind of setup?

Thanks,
Andrew


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb  2 16:29:39 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Feb 2010 13:29:39 -0800
Subject: PyPI source dependencies?
Message-ID: <hka5g3$d91$1@panix5.panix.com>

I'm trying to build PyObjC from source (because the binary doesn't work
on OSX 10.5) and I can't figure out how to get all the dependencies
downloaded automatically.  Am I missing something?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 16:35:50 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:35:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fb0882ae-ac9e-4b1c-8f81-8ba2b08eb611@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 12:40?pm, Xah Lee <xah... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
>

I think you mean hash.clear() instead of hash.clean()

The answer is that "hash = {}" will create a new dict and assign it to
"hash", while "hash.clear()" simply guts the dict that "hash" is
pointing to.

In the end, both will result in "has" pointing to an empty dict.

However, if you had something else pointing to what "hash" was
pointing to, they will no longer be pointing to the same, empty hash
after "hash = {}" is run.

>>> a = b = {1:2}
>>> a
{1: 2}
>>> b
{1: 2}
>>> a.clear()
>>> a
{}
>>> b
{}
>>> a = b = {1:2}
>>> a = {}
>>> a
{}
>>> b
{1: 2}


From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Tue Feb  2 16:38:43 2010
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:38:43 +0100
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <DX0an.161462$9A6.155766@newsfe07.ams2>

Op 2010-02-02 18:02, Nobody schreef:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:00:28 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>>>> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
>>>> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
>>>> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
>>>> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
>>>> mayhem*.
>>>
>>> I feel your pain, but this is not a Python problem, per-se.
>>
>> I think it is.
> 
> I agree.
> 
>> There should be different syntax to import from
>> "standard" places and from "current directory".  Similar to the 
>> difference between "foo.h" and <foo.h> in cpp.
> 
> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
> than in the process' CWD.

That is what I would have expected, it is the way I would have
implemented it, and I don't understand why anyone would think
differently. Yet not everyone seems to agree.

Apparently, contrary to my expectations, Python looks in the directory
containing the currently running script instead. That means that the
behavior of "import foo" depends very much on circumstances not under
control of the module in which that statement appears. Very fragile.
Suggestions to use better names or just poor workarounds, IMO. Of the
same nature are suggestions to limit the amount of scrips/modules in a
directory... my /usr/bin contains no less than 2685 binaries, with 0
problems of name clashes; there is IMO no reason why Python should
restrict itself to any less.

Generally I like the design decisions used in Python, or at least I
understand the reasons; in this case though, I don't see the advantages
of the current approach.

-- 
The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge
faster than society gathers wisdom.
  -- Isaac Asimov

Roel Schroeven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 16:39:19 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:39:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a1ddcc5-0e2d-4c97-967d-6f6bbf0a7066@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:34?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
>
> An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines
> long, and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was
> quickly dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to
> my screen (aka gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my
> terminal *royally*.
>

In linux terminals, try running the command "reset" to clear up any
gobbledy-gook. It also works if you happen to hit CTRL-C while
entering a password, in the rare case that it fails to set the text
back to visible mode.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 16:49:39 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:49:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 2:21?am, waku <w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
> for writing new code, it's not necessarily that helpful to be *forced*
> to keep with strict indenting rules. ?in early development phases,
> code is often experimental, and parts of it may need to be blocked or
> unblocked as the codebase grows, and for experimentation, the need to
> carefully and consistently indent and de-indent large chunks of code
> can easily lead to a mess (blame it on the programmer, not the
> language, but still). ?yes, there are editors that help you indent
> chunks of code, but see below.
>
> there are languages where indentation can be either enforced and allow
> one to omit some syntactic nuissance like braces or begin-end clauses,
> or made optional, requiring other syntactic means for delimiting
> blocks etc. ?(consider f# with its #light declaration, for example.)
>

If you're writing "experimental code", you're doing it wrong. Every
line of code you write may end up on the space shuttle one day (so to
speak!) Why not write the code well-formatted in the first place, so
that any bugs you introduce are as easily visible as possible?

The only reason why you may want to write crap code without proper
formatting is because your text editor is stupid. If that's the case,
get rid of your text editor and find some tools that help you do the
right thing the first time.

>
> as long as you are limited to your own code, sure. ?but if many work
> on the same bit, and use different editors and indentation policies,
> blanks-tabs indentation issues are not unlikely. ?you can have blanks
> converted to tabs and vice versa automatically, but that's clearly a
> nuisance.
>

If you're text editor has a problem with indenting, you have a
terrible text editor. Period, end of sentence.

You can't screw in bolts with a hammer, and you can't level with a
saw. Don't try to write code in any language without a real text
editor that can do proper indentation. Don't let your teammates use
deficient text editors either. I wouldn't appreciate it if I delivered
precision components that my teammates tried to install with
sledgehammers.

This is the 21st Century. Good text editors are not hard to find on
any platform.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 16:55:09 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 13:55:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:21?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> You don't need to know the entire language before you can use any of it
> (if you did, Python would be deader than a certain parrot; Python's dark
> corners are *really* dark).
>

I'm curious. What dark corners are you referring to? I can't think of
any. Especially with the direction Python 3 is going, it seems like
even the slightly dim corners are being rounded away.

I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
__getattribute__, __new__ and __get__. These are the darkest corners I
know of, and these are not at all dark. It takes a few paragraphs of
documentation to explain all the details of each these features. I
hold the entire Python language in my head, and I can still remember
when my next meeting is.

Compare that to something like Haskell, where you have to read entire
books before you truly understand what monads are actually doing
behind the scenes, and how Haskell actually interprets and runs your
program, or to understand what the esoteric error messages that crop
up are actually caused be.

Yes, there are people that know how to do stuff in Haskell. These are
really smart people, the cream of the crop, so to speak. But that
doesn't make Haskell a simple language.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 17:01:01 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:01:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:36?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > One of the bad things with languages like perl
>
> FYI: the language is called Perl, the program that executes a Perl
> program is called perl.
>
> > without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> > need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
> > ?foo(); ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> > ?$bar = foo; ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
> > ?$bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
>
> It should be $bar = \&foo
> Your example actually calls foo...
>

I rest my case. I've been programming perl professionally since 2000,
and I still make stupid, newbie mistakes like that.

> > One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> > the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> > function calls with references.
>
> The syntax follows that of referencing and dereferencing:
>
> $bar = \@array; ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to array
> $bar->[ 0 ]; ? ? ? ? ?# first element of array referenced by bar
> $bar = \%hash; ? ? ? ?# bar contains now a reference to a hash
> $bar->{ key }; ? ? ? ?# value associated with key of hash ref. by bar
> $bar = \&foo; ? ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to a sub
> $bar->( 45 ); ? ? ? ? # call sub ref. by bar with 45 as an argument
>
> Consistent: yes. New syntax? No.
>

Except for the following symbols and combinations, which are entirely
new and different from the $@% that you have to know just to use
arrays and hashes.

\@, ->[ ]
\%, ->{ }
\&, ->( )

By the way:
* How do you do a hashslice on a hashref?
* How do you invoke reference to a hash that contains a reference to
an array that contains a reference to a function?

Compare with Python's syntax.

# The only way to assign
a = b

# The only way to call a function
b(...)

# The only way to access a hash or array or string or tuple
b[...]

> Also, it helps to think of
>
> $ as a thing
> @ as thingies indexed by numbers
> % as thingies indexed by keys
>

I'd rather think of the task at hand than what each of the funky
symbols on my keyboard mean.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 17:06:47 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:06:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<ZrX9n.34661$Ym4.20954@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <2a5ee10d-4da3-4275-936d-3d792f3450e3@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 7:23?am, "bartc" <ba... at freeuk.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> > without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> > need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
> > ?foo(); ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> > ?$bar = foo; ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
> > ?$bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
> > ?$bar->() ? ? # Call whatever '$bar' is pointing at with no args
>
> > Compare with python:
>
> > ?foo() ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> > ?bar = foo() # 'bar' is now pointing to whatever 'foo()' returned
> > ?bar = foo ? # 'bar' is now pointing to the same thing 'foo' points to
> > ?bar() ? ? ? # Call 'bar' with no args
>
> > One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> > the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> > function calls with references.
>
> If you get rid of the syntax specific to Perl, then having to explicitly
> obtain a function reference, or to dereference the result, is not such a big
> deal:
>
> ?foo ? ? ? ? ?# Call 'foo' with no args.
> ?bar = foo ? ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to 'bar'
> ?bar = &foo ? # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to 'bar'
> ?bar^ ? ? ? ? # Call whatever 'bar' is pointing at with no args
>
> (Here I use ^ instead of -> to dereference.) ?Compared with Python, it saves
> 3 lots of (), but needs & and ^ added. Still a net saving.
>

On one shoulder, a demon taunts the programmer: "Ohmygosh, you can
save three keystrokes if you introduce an entirely new syntax with odd
squiggles that make no pronounceable sound in the English language!
Perhaps one day, you can program APL in Python!"

The angel that sits on the other shoulder says, "Alas, poor
programmer, one day, you'll have to read that and understand it. And
heaven help us when we hire a poor college graduate to maintain the
code we wrote five years ago. Or worse, when that poor college
graduate writes code and expects us to read it!"

Thankfully, Guido has banished that demon from the realm of Python a
long time ago.


> > One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
> > without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious.
>
> I'd say that having this "&" symbol in front of "foo" makes it more obvious
> than just foo by itself. But I agree not quite as clean.
>
> Another thing is that you have to know whether "bar" is a function, or a
> function ref, and use the appropriate syntax. Sometimes this is helpful,
> sometimes not.
>

Thankfully, in Python, everything is a ref, so everything is
consistent.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  2 17:09:38 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:09:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<aefb0902-550e-476d-9320-535ae1cc235f@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.48.19.187000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <88cc29b2-cc2e-4e02-91dc-073be8216f61@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 6:50?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:13:38 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > I judge a language's simplicity by how long it takes to explain the
> > complete language. That is, what minimal set of documentation do you
> > need to describe all of the language?
>
> That's not a particularly good metric, IMHO.
>
> A simple "core" language doesn't necessarily make a language simple to
> use. You can explain the entirety of pure lambda calculus or combinators
> in five minutes, but you wouldn't want to write real code in either (and
> you certainly wouldn't want to read such code which was written by someone
> else).
>
> For a start, languages with a particularly simple "core" tend to delegate
> too much to the library. One thing which puts a lot of people off of
> lisp is the lack of infix operators; after all, (* 2 (+ 3 4)) works fine
> and doesn't require any additional language syntax. For an alternative,
> Tcl provides the "expr" function which essentially provides a sub-language
> for arithmetic expressions.
>
> A better metric is whether using N features has O(N) complexity, or O(N^2)
> (where you have to understand how each feature relates to each other
> feature) or even O(2^N) (where you have to understand every possible
> combination of interactions).
>
> > With a handful of statements,
> > and a very short list of operators, Python beats out every language in
> > the Algol family that I know of.
>
> Not once you move beyond the 10-minute introduction, and have to start
> thinking in terms of x + y is x.__add__(y) or maybe y.__radd__(x) and also
> that x.__add__(y) is x.__getattribute__('__add__')(y) (but x + y *isn't*
> equivalent to the latter due to __slots__), and maybe .__coerce__() gets
> involved somewhere, and don't even get me started on __metaclass__ or
> __init__ versus __new__ or ...
>
> Yes, the original concept was very nice and clean, but everything since
> then has been wedged in there by sheer force with a bloody great hammer.

I strongly suggest you read the documentation on these bits of Python.
If you're scared of __new__ versus __init__, then you haven't been
programming very long in any language. There is a case when you need
one over the other. The same goes for the other concepts.

Programming languages that don't provide these features (like
Javascript) are nice for toy programs, but lack the power to
accommodate the needs of large apps.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb  2 17:21:13 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:21:13 +1100
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87mxzrp9d2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> Compare with Python's syntax.
>
> # The only way to assign
> a = b
>
> # The only way to call a function
> b(...)
>
> # The only way to access a hash or array or string or tuple
> b[...]

For all of your examples, there are other ways supported. I do wish this
focus on ?only way? would depart, it's a fallacy and not helpful.

What is important (and supports the main point of your message) is that
for each of the above, whether or not they are the only way, they are
the one *obvious* way to do the operation.

-- 
 \           ?The cost of education is trivial compared to the cost of |
  `\                                     ignorance.? ?Thomas Jefferson |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From chairman at python.org  Tue Feb  2 17:23:43 2010
From: chairman at python.org (Steve Holden, Chairman, PSF)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:23:43 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B68A5EF.7040100@python.org>

Xah Lee wrote:
> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
> freenode.net.
> 
> Here's a log:
> 
> 2010-02-02
> 
> (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL | http://pound-python.org/
> | It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
> http://paste.pocoo.org/ | Tutorial: http://docs.python.org/tut/ | FAQ:
> http://effbot.org/pyfaq/ | New Programmer? Read http://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
> | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
> #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
> offtopic
> (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
> actually.
> (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
> (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
> (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
> etc) right is quite tricky
> (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
> wondering whats up with the python verison :D
> (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)
> 
> ---------------
> 
> I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
> 2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
> freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.
> 
>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/
> 
> ?

Frankly, Xah Lee, I find it ironic that you see fit to complain about
abuse of the IRC channel when you have apparently felt free to ignore
the many complaints about your behavior on this and other newsgroups
over many years.

"As ye sew, so shall ye reap". I imagine that your reputation has
preceded you, and that dash (whom I *do* know) is simply looking to keep
a well-known nuisance from bothering the rest of the users on the channel.

For the present my sympathies are all with him. The PSF will, however,
investigate this issue and I will report back to you off-list in due course.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden        Chairman, Python Software Foundation
The Python Community Conference   http://python.org/psf/
PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21        http://us.pycon.org/
Watch PyCon on video now!          http://pycon.blip.tv/


From hnine at isis.vanderbilt.edu  Tue Feb  2 17:38:00 2010
From: hnine at isis.vanderbilt.edu (Harmon Nine)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:38:00 -0600
Subject: Calling a "raw" python function from C++
Message-ID: <7AB1C26C64423249964AB392C6EBF0E0049D4394@discovery.isis.vanderbilt.edu>

Hello.
 
I've been crawling the web for an answer to this one, but have come up
empty.
 
We can currently only use Boost 1.36 for our project, i.e. we are having
problems using later versions of Boost.  We are using Boost.Python to
interface with Cheetah.
 
Problem:
In Boost 1.36, how do you call a "raw" method of a python class from
C++?  In particular, what C++ code is needed to call a "raw
constructor", i.e. a constructor that can take an arbitrary number of
positional and keyword arguments by using *args, **kwargs?
 
For instance, this is defined in a ".py" file.
 
class Gain:
   def __init__( self, *args, **kwargs ):
   ...
 
 
In C++ we have (where "gainClass" is the Gain class above referenced
from C++):
-----
namespace bp = boost::python;
 
bp::object gainObject = gainClass( /* what goes here to call the above
Gain constructor? */ );
-----
 
Passing a tuple and a dict doesn't work.  I wish we could use the most
recent version of Boost, since in this you can just do this:
-----
bp::object gainObject = gainClass( *bp::tuple(), **bp::dict() );
-----
But this is not available in Boost 1.36
 
TIA
-- Harmon
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 17:43:07 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:43:07 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <DX0an.161462$9A6.155766@newsfe07.ams2>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com> 
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com> 
	<DX0an.161462$9A6.155766@newsfe07.ams2>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002021443i50111efaia261872130364082@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Roel Schroeven <
rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Apparently, contrary to my expectations, Python looks in the directory
> containing the currently running script instead. That means that the
> behavior of "import foo" depends very much on circumstances not under
> control of the module in which that statement appears. Very fragile.
> Suggestions to use better names or just poor workarounds, IMO. Of the
> same nature are suggestions to limit the amount of scrips/modules in a
> directory... my /usr/bin contains no less than 2685 binaries, with 0
> problems of name clashes; there is IMO no reason why Python should
> restrict itself to any less.
>
> Generally I like the design decisions used in Python, or at least I
> understand the reasons; in this case though, I don't see the advantages
> of the current approach.


This really isn't anything new, novel, or even interesting. Its been known
forever that Python searches the script's directory for other scripts,
there's reasons for this.

Its also been known forever that its not really an ideal situation, and so
over the last seven or so years, Python's been working on fixing it.

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/

In 2.5, you could activate your modules to use absolute imports by default,
thus requiring you to use special syntax to access modules in your own
path.

In 2.6, relative imports of modules in the same dir (thus, possible
shadowing modules) raises a deprecation warning.

In Python 3+, you have to use the explicit syntax to get at modules in the
current directory.

This has taken years to address, yeah, because touching the import machinery
is -dangerous-; you have to do it very carefully to be sure that vast
amounts of code doesn't break that's relying on the existing,
not-entirely-well-documented-or-defined mechanics.

Why was Python designed like this? Ask Guido. I don't know, but I'm not
surprised: python was always very /flat/ originally. Strict, flat scopes,
didn't even have packages, etc. Its slowly gotten a little more nested /
deeper over time-- from limited nested scoping (only for enclosing
functions), to now absolute imports being default.

Its a slow process seeking a delicate balance; "flat is better then nested"
vs "namespaces are one honking great idea" are somewhat contradictory, after
all :)

--S
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  2 17:47:19 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:47:19 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkaa1n$t3h$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/2/2010 2:43 PM, kj wrote:
> In<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list at python.org>  Terry Reedy<tjreedy at udel.edu>  writes:
>
>> On 2/2/2010 9:13 AM, kj wrote:
>
>>>> As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
>>>> breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
>>>> was missed.
>>>
>>> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
>>> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
>>> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
>>> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
>>> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
>>> the deliberations I'm looking for.)
>
>> There was a proposal to put the whole stdlib into a gigantic package, so
>> that
>
>> import itertools
>
>> would become, for instance
>
>> import std.itertools.
>
>> Guido rejected that. I believe he both did not like it and was concerned
>> about making upgrade to 3.x even harder. The discussion was probably on
>> the now closed py3k list.
>
>
> Thanks.  I'll look for this thread.

Stephen Hansen's post explains a bit more than I did. To supplement his 
explanation: since print *was* a keyword, every use of 'print' in 2.x 
denotes a print statement with standard semantics. Therefore 2to3 
*knows* what the statement means and can translate it. On the other 
hand, 'import string' usually means 'import the string module of the 
stdlib', but it could mean 'import my string module'. This depends on 
the execution environment. Moreover, I believe people have intentionally 
shadowed stdlib modules. So. like it or not, 2to3 cannot know what 
'import string' means.

Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  2 17:54:51 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: lists as an efficient implementation of large two-dimensional
	arrays(!)
In-Reply-To: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
References: <421D0C7C-0B5C-4235-B39C-D39140F61980@Comcast.net>
Message-ID: <hkaafr$umi$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/2/2010 3:14 PM, Mitchell L Model wrote:

> I need a 1000 x 1000 two-dimensional array of objects.

I would just use 1000 element list, with each element being a 1000 
element list or array (if possible). Then l2d[i][j] works fine.



From nagle at animats.com  Tue Feb  2 18:02:49 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:02:49 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
Message-ID: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

    I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate
if the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time,
but it's worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to
a lame locking implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded
code on a dual-core CPU runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core
CPU, according to Beasley.

    My main server application, which runs "sitetruth.com"
has both multiple processes and multiple threads in each process.
The system rates web sites, which involves reading and parsing
up to 20 pages from each domain.  Analysis of each domain is
performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.

    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
they parse web pages.  Sometimes two threads (but never more than three)
in the same process may be parsing web pages at the same time, so
they're contending for CPU time.

    So this is nearly the worst case for the lame GIL lock logic.
Has anyone tried using "affinity" ("http://pypi.python.org/pypi/affinity")
to lock each Python process to a single CPU?  Does that help?

				John Nagle


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  2 18:05:30 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:05:30 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <87mxzrp9d2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>	<2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<87mxzrp9d2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4B68AFBA.2070008@holdenweb.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> 
>> Compare with Python's syntax.
>>
>> # The only way to assign
>> a = b
>>
>> # The only way to call a function
>> b(...)
>>
>> # The only way to access a hash or array or string or tuple
>> b[...]
> 
> For all of your examples, there are other ways supported. I do wish this
> focus on ?only way? would depart, it's a fallacy and not helpful.
> 
And besides which most people get the quote wrong. The "authoritative"
version from the Zen is, as you clearly already know

  There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.

> What is important (and supports the main point of your message) is that
> for each of the above, whether or not they are the only way, they are
> the one *obvious* way to do the operation.
> 

Quite.

People might be interested to know the history of the Zen, which I got
directly from Tim Peters over lunch one day. It was composed,
apparently, during the commercial breaks one evening while he was
watching professional wrestling on the television!

So it's wise not to take the Zen too seriously. It wasn't written to
guide, but to amuse. The fact that it can do both is a testament to
Tim's sagacity.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb  2 18:07:05 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Feb 2010 15:07:05 -0800
Subject: Need help with a program
References: <96db4cd6-bda3-42db-a592-83d72e517e2d@28g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<a3ddc086-7cfa-4853-9a2c-28abf374dc66@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4B61CE0E.5000801@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1551.1264701475.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkab6p$jk6$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1551.1264701475.28905.python-list at python.org>,
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
>
>If you have a problem and you think that regular expressions are the
>solution then now you have two problems.  Regex is really overkill for
>the OP's problem and it certainly doesn't improve readability.

If you're going to use a quote, it works better if you use the exact
quote and attribute it:

'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
regular expressions."  Now they have two problems.' --Jamie Zawinski
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 18:07:47 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:07:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1ee94353-24aa-48a9-a7e2-474149ae0f7c@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 5:01?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 1, 6:36?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > > One of the bad things with languages like perl
>
> > FYI: the language is called Perl, the program that executes a Perl
> > program is called perl.
>
> > > without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious. You
> > > need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>
> > > ?foo(); ? ? ? # Call 'foo' with no args.
> > > ?$bar = foo; ?# Call 'foo; with no args, assign to '$bar'
> > > ?$bar = &foo; # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to '$bar'
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # By the way, this '&' is not the bitwise-and '&'!!!!
>
> > It should be $bar = \&foo
> > Your example actually calls foo...
>
> I rest my case. I've been programming perl professionally since 2000,
> and I still make stupid, newbie mistakes like that.
>
> > > One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
> > > the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
> > > function calls with references.
>
> > The syntax follows that of referencing and dereferencing:
>
> > $bar = \@array; ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to array
> > $bar->[ 0 ]; ? ? ? ? ?# first element of array referenced by bar
> > $bar = \%hash; ? ? ? ?# bar contains now a reference to a hash
> > $bar->{ key }; ? ? ? ?# value associated with key of hash ref. by bar
> > $bar = \&foo; ? ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to a sub
> > $bar->( 45 ); ? ? ? ? # call sub ref. by bar with 45 as an argument
>
> > Consistent: yes. New syntax? No.
>
> Except for the following symbols and combinations, which are entirely
> new and different from the $@% that you have to know just to use
> arrays and hashes.
>
> \@, ->[ ]
> \%, ->{ }
> \&, ->( )
>
> By the way:
> * How do you do a hashslice on a hashref?
> * How do you invoke reference to a hash that contains a reference to
> an array that contains a reference to a function?
>
> Compare with Python's syntax.
>
> # The only way to assign
> a = b

>>> locals().__setitem__('a', 'b')
>>> print a
b

> # The only way to call a function
> b(...)

>>> def b(a):
...    print a*2
>>> apply(b, (3,))
6

> # The only way to access a hash or array or string or tuple
> b[...]

>>> b={}
>>> b[1] = 'a'
>>> print b.__getitem__(1)
a




From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Feb  2 18:24:59 2010
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:24:59 -0000
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20100202232459.26099.2057701829.divmod.xquotient.97@localhost.localdomain>

On 11:02 pm, nagle at animats.com wrote:
>    I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
>multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
>("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate
>if the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time,
>but it's worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to
>a lame locking implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded
>code on a dual-core CPU runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core
>CPU, according to Beasley.

It's not clear that Beasley's performance numbers apply to any platform 
except OS X, which has a particularly poor implementation of the 
threading primitives CPython uses to implement the GIL.

You should check to see if it actually applies to your deployment 
environment.

The GIL has been re-implemented recently.  Python 3.2, I think, will 
include the new implementation, which should bring OS X performance up 
to the level of other platforms.  It may also improve certain other 
aspects of thread switching.

Jean-Paul


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  2 18:30:17 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:30:17 -0300
Subject: Problems embedding python 2.6 in C++
References: <5089497e1002011321h5328ed68y4bfab055f627ba74@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7g0tijgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<5089497e1002012126h55f0611ct476eabb0ccf1bea1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7iwwrmix6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 02 Feb 2010 02:26:57 -0300, Paul <gobladoome at gmail.com> escribi?:

> I've managed to get it working and so far stable...

Glad to see you finally made it work!

> Current working version:
>   [...]
>  mycppclass::callpy(funcname, args...)
>       m_mypymodule = PyImport_Import(pModuleName)
>
>       pyargs = PyTuple_SetItem * args
>       PyCallable_Check(func)
>       PyObject_CallObject(func,pyargs)
>
>       Py_XDECREF(m_mypymodule)
>
> So now the module is being imported each function call (luckily I don't  
> have
> to worry about performance)

Remember that after the module is successfully imported by the first time,  
a subsequent import returns early, as soon as it finds the module in  
sys.modules[] -- the performance penalty shouldn't be so big.

> I assume this means that the internal representation of the imported  
> module
> is being corrupted by something. I found another person with a similar  
> issue
> here:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-March/043306.html -  
> that is
> a long time ago but another multi-threaded app.

> I'm happy to use the working method but I'd like to understand what is  
> going
> on a bit more. Can anyone shed any further light?

Sorry, I cannot help on this. Seems to happen only with an embedded  
interpreter and a multithreaded application, and I've never used Python in  
that scenario.

If you could trim your code to a minimal example that shows the faulty  
behavior, that would be great, so others can test it too and eventually  
determine what's going on.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From irmen-NOSPAM- at xs4all.nl  Tue Feb  2 19:36:38 2010
From: irmen-NOSPAM- at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:36:38 +0100
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
In-Reply-To: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b68c4c0$0$22920$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 2-2-2010 21:54, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving
> into the details of the Python language.
>

Alf,
I think it's a good read so far. I just don't like the smilies that 
occur in the text. It's a book (or article) that I'm reading, not an 
instant messaging conversation.

Irmen


From bartc at freeuk.com  Tue Feb  2 20:01:29 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:01:29 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <2a5ee10d-4da3-4275-936d-3d792f3450e3@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<ZrX9n.34661$Ym4.20954@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<2a5ee10d-4da3-4275-936d-3d792f3450e3@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <JV3an.34909$Ym4.20584@text.news.virginmedia.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 2, 7:23 am, "bartc" <ba... at freeuk.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>> One of the bad things with languages like perl and Ruby that call
>>> without parentheses is that getting a function ref is not obvious.
>>> You need even more syntax to do so. In perl:
>> 
>>> foo(); # Call 'foo' with no args.
...
>> If you get rid of the syntax specific to Perl, then having to
>> explicitly obtain a function reference, or to dereference the
>> result, is not such a big deal:
>> 
>> foo # Call 'foo' with no args.
>> bar = foo # Call 'foo; with no args, assign to 'bar'
>> bar = &foo # Don't call 'foo', but assign a pointer to it to 'bar'
>> bar^ # Call whatever 'bar' is pointing at with no args
>> 
>> (Here I use ^ instead of -> to dereference.) Compared with Python,
>> it saves 3 lots of (), but needs & and ^ added. Still a net saving.
>> 
> 
> On one shoulder, a demon taunts the programmer: "Ohmygosh, you can
> save three keystrokes if you introduce an entirely new syntax with odd
> squiggles that make no pronounceable sound in the English language!
> Perhaps one day, you can program APL in Python!"
... 
> Thankfully, Guido has banished that demon from the realm of Python a
> long time ago.

You mean & (bitwise AND in Python) and ^ (bitwise XOR in Python)?

:-)

-- 
Bartc




From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  2 20:06:49 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:06:49 -0500
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
In-Reply-To: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkai7o$kvn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving
> into the details of the Python language.
> 
> It's just a few pages yet, file [03 asd.pdf] (no real title yet!) at
> <url: http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> which is at Google Docs.
> 
> The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether
> this text is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any
> improvements that could be made.
> 
I don't think it's helpful in Python to refer to "... variables, which
are named locations in memory, ..." because Python specifically eschews
this model, and trying to explain assignment (especially of mutable
objects) in those terms will lead to conceptual difficulties.

Also, why introduce exceptions by talking about "error handling" when
the term "exception handling" is hanging in the air? This is also a
conceptual thing, since you want to get the reader used to the idea that
it's a legitimate programming technique to use exceptions as part of
their programs' normal control flow.

I'd also recommend taking docstrings a little more seriously, since
their use makes code much more self-documenting - someone can import
your module and learn its API using the help() function. You may have
done that in an earlier chapter.

Just a few points for you to think about, and reject if you choose.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From peter.milliken at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 20:21:14 2010
From: peter.milliken at gmail.com (Peter)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:21:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <e0382c1d-b933-4ad4-95b8-3233bf5456bc@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 7:54?am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving into the
> details of the Python language.
>
> It's just a few pages yet, file [03 asd.pdf] (no real title yet!) at <url:http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> which is at Google Docs.
>
> The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether this text
> is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any improvements that
> could be made.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf

The only issue I have with what is there is the example - most
programmers are not interested in solving mathematical equations and
the code is enough to make the reader go cross-eyed. IMO the example
code tends to detract from the point you are trying to make about
using and how to use assertions.

I would suggest a much simpler (to read) example than the one given.
Ideally I would like to see more than one example with the examples
graded from simple to more complex. A simple example could be just
using the assert statement to verify pre-condition (assumptions) made
on parameters to a function i.e.

def divide (x, y):
  return x / y

The programmer obviously assumed that y will never be 0 - so with one
simple example you teach two points:

1. how an assert can be used
2. when programming look for unconscious assumptions

Peter

P.S. You also raise an interesting issue in my mind when quoting Knuth
and siting TeX as an example application with no known bugs - Knuth
advocated and used literate programming when writing TeX to achieve
"clarity". I believe he (still?) cites the fact that TeX is so bug
free because he used Literate Programming to write it (well, at least
one reason). So should we be trying to teach literate programming to
beginners? You did open that can of worms by quoting and siting Knuth
and TeX... :-)


From xahlee at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 20:28:10 2010
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:28:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
Message-ID: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

just wrote this essay. Comment & feedback very welcome.

Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages

Xah Lee, 2010-02-02

In Python, there are 2 ways to clear a hash: ?myHash = {}? and
?myHash.clear()?. What is the difference?
?

The difference is that ?myHash={}? simply creates a new empty hash and
assigns to myHash, while ?myHash.clear()? actually clear the hash the
myHash is pointing to.

What does that mean?? Here's a code that illustrates:

# python
# 2 ways to clear hash and their difference
aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
bb = aa
aa = {}
print bb # prints {'a': 3, 'b': 4}

aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
bb = aa
aa.clear()
print bb # prints {}

This is like this because of the ?reference? concept. The opposite
alternative, is that everything is a copy, for example in most
functional langs. (with respect to programer-visible behavior, not how
it is implemented)

>From the aspect of the relation of the language source code to the
program behavior by the source code, this ?reference?-induced behavior
is similar to dynamic scope vs lexicol scope. The former being un-
intuitive and hard to understand the latter more intuitive and clear.
The former requires the lang to have a internal model of the language,
the latter more correspond to source code WYSIWYG. The former being
easy to implement and is in early langs, the latter being more popular
today.

As with many languages that have concept of references, or pointers,
this is a complexity that hampers programing progress. The concept of
using some sort of ?reference? as part of the language is due to
implementation efficiency. Starting with C and others in 1960s up to
1990s. But as time went on, this concept in computer languages are
gradually disappearing, as they should.

Other langs that have this ?reference? concept as ESSENTIAL part of
the semantic of the language, includes: C, C++, Java, Perl, Common
Lisp. (of course, each using different terminologies, and each lang
faction will gouge the other faction's eyes out about what is the true
meaning of terms like ?reference?, ?object?, ?list/sequence/vector/
array/hash?, and absolutely pretend other meanings do not exist.
(partly due to, their ignorance of langs other than their own, partly,
due to male power struggle nature.))

Languages that do not have any ?reference? or ?object?, or otherwise
does not require the programer to have some internal model of source
code, are: Mathematica, JavaScript, PHP. (others may include TCL,
possibly assembly langs.)

For some detail on this, see: Jargons And High Level Languages and
Hardware Modeled Computer Languages.

---------------------------

(perm url of this essay can be found on my website.)

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  2 20:42:18 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 01:42:18 GMT
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1779.1265099894.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:38:07 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

>> I like seeing them in the same place as the source file, because when I
>> start developing a module, I often end up renaming it multiple times
>> before it settles on a final name. When I rename or move it, I delete
>> the .pyc file, and that ensures that if I miss changing an import, and
>> try to import the old name, it will fail.
>>
>> By hiding the .pyc file elsewhere, it is easy to miss deleting one, and
>> then the import won't fail, it will succeed, but use the old, obsolete
>> byte code.
> 
> 
> Okay, I see your point but I think your argument about importing shows
> that python is doing something suboptimal because I have to worry about
> .pyc files. Ideally, I only would need to worry about python source
> files.

That's no different from any language that is compiled: you have to worry 
about keeping the compiled code (byte code or machine language) in sync 
with the source code.

Python does most of that for you: it automatically recompiles the source 
whenever the source code's last modified date stamp is newer than that of 
the byte code. So to a first approximation you can forget all about 
the .pyc files and just care about the source.

But that's only a first approximation. You might care about the .pyc 
files if:

(1) you want to distribute your application in a non-human readable 
format;

(2) if you care about clutter in your file system;

(3) if you suspect a bug in the compiler;

(4) if you are working with byte-code hacks;

(5) if the clock on your PC is wonky;

(6) if you leave random .pyc files floating around earlier in the 
PYTHONPATH than your source files;

etc.




> There is now a chance to 'fix' (quotation marks because maybe
> there is nothing to fix, according to some) this issue and make all pyc
> files go away and having python magically doing the right thing.

Famous last words... 

The only ways I can see to have Python magically do the right thing in 
all cases would be:

(1) Forget about byte-code compiling, and just treat Python as a purely 
interpreted language. If you think Python is slow now... 

(2) Compile as we do now, but only keep the byte code in memory. This 
would avoid all worries about scattered .pyc files, but would slow Python 
down significantly *and* reduce functionality (e.g. losing the ability to 
distribute non-source files).

Neither of these are seriously an option.


> A
> central pyc repository would be something I was thinking about, but I
> admit it's a half baked or not even that, probably quarter baked idea.

A central .pyc repository doesn't eliminate the issues developers may 
have with byte code files, it just puts them somewhere else, out of 
sight, where they are more likely to bite.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  2 20:49:17 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 01:49:17 GMT
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.01.49.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> I did not propose obvious module names.  I said obvious names like
> email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are better.

But surely send_email.py doesn't just send email, it parses email and 
receives email as well?


-- 
Steven



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  2 20:56:36 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:56:36 -0300
Subject: unable to catch this exception
References: <hk91ob$hql$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7i3omhox6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 02 Feb 2010 08:20:34 -0300, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Exception in thread Thread-9 (most likely raised during interpreter  
> shutdown):
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/var/www/html/cssh.py", line 617, in ssh_connect
> <type 'exceptions.AttributeError'>: 'NoneType' object has no attribute  
> 'BadAuthenticationType'

So you started several threads, and one of them was in them middle of  
connecting to somewhere when the program exited, correct?

> This happens on interpreter shutdown, even though I do try to catch the  
> AttributeError exception:
>
> try:
>      fake = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
>      try:
>          self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username,  
> key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
>          loginsuccess = True
>      except paramiko.BadAuthenticationType, e: # this is line 617
>          self.conerror = str(e)
>      except paramiko.SSHException, e:
>          self.conerror = str(e)
>      except socket.timeout, e:
>          self.conerror = str(e)
>      except socket.error, e:
>          self.conerror = str(e)
> except AttributeError:
>      # this happens on interpreter shutdown
>      self.conerror = 'shutdown'
>
>
> It's clear what happens: paramiko gets its attributes cleared or the  
> module perhaps gets unloaded and as result "paramiko" label leads to  
> None, which obviously has no attribute BadAuthenticationType.

As part of the interpreter shutdown procedure, module globals are set to  
None. Code that might be executed in those very precarious circumstances  
should NOT reference any globals.

> However, even though this is surrounded by try .. except AttributeError  
> block, it evidently isn't catch. How to catch that exception? Or at  
> least preven displaying this message?

You could keep a local reference to those global names; by example, by  
adding 'fake' default arguments:

     def ssh_connect(self, other, arguments,
           paramiko=paramiko, socket=socket):
        ...

or perhaps:

     def ssh_connect(self, other, arguments):
        BadAuthenticationType = paramiko.BadAuthenticationType
        socket_timeout = socket.timeout
        try:
            ...
        except BadAuthenticationType, e:
            ...
        except socket_timeout, e:
            ...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 21:02:09 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:02:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1e88a2b7-089c-41d0-aadd-38f8586e2466@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 9:02?am, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> ? ? I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
> multicore CPU, but how bad is it? ?I've read the key paper
> ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.

It's a shame that Python 3.x is dead to you, otherwise you'd be able
to enjoy the new GIL implementation in 3.2: http://www.dabeaz.com/python/NewGIL.pdf

Actually, it looks like you probably still can:
 + patch for 2.5.4: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/109929
 + patch for 2.7? http://bugs.python.org/issue7753

(Can't comment on affinity, though, sorry)


From no.email at please.post  Tue Feb  2 21:35:55 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:35:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkaneb$1ti$1@reader2.panix.com>



(For reasons I don't understand Stephen Hansen's posts don't show
in my news server.  I became aware of his reply from a passing
reference in one of Terry Reedy's post.  Then I found Hansen's post
online, and then an earlier one, and pasted the relevant portion
below.)



> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.

...*if* you happen to be clairvoyant.  I still don't see how the rest of us
could have followed this fine principle in the case of numbers.py
prior to Python 2.6.

> Secondly, I use packages structuring my libraries, and avoid junk
> directories of a hundred some odd 'scripts'.

<small>(I feel so icky now...)</small>

> Third, I don't execute scripts in that directory structure directly, but
> instead do python -c 'from package.blah import main; main.main()' or some
> such. Usually via some short-cut, or a runner batch file.

Breathtaking...  I wonder why the Python documentation, in particular
the official Python tutorial, is not more forthcoming with these
rules.

~K


From no.email at please.post  Tue Feb  2 21:36:49 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:36:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkang1$1ti$2@reader2.panix.com>

In <mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list at python.org> Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>On 2/2/2010 2:43 PM, kj wrote:
>> In<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list at python.org>  Terry Reedy<tjreedy at udel.edu>  writes:
>>
>>> On 2/2/2010 9:13 AM, kj wrote:
>>
>>>>> As for fixing it, unfortunately it's not quite so simple to fix without
>>>>> breaking backwards-compatibility. The opportunity to do so for Python 3.0
>>>>> was missed.
>>>>
>>>> This last point is to me the most befuddling of all.  Does anyone
>>>> know why this opportunity was missed for 3.0?  Anyone out there
>>>> with the inside scoop on this?  Was the fixing of this problem
>>>> discussed in some PEP or some mailing list thread?  (I've tried
>>>> Googling this but did not hit on the right keywords to bring up
>>>> the deliberations I'm looking for.)
>>
>>> There was a proposal to put the whole stdlib into a gigantic package, so
>>> that
>>
>>> import itertools
>>
>>> would become, for instance
>>
>>> import std.itertools.
>>
>>> Guido rejected that. I believe he both did not like it and was concerned
>>> about making upgrade to 3.x even harder. The discussion was probably on
>>> the now closed py3k list.
>>
>>
>> Thanks.  I'll look for this thread.

>Stephen Hansen's post explains a bit more than I did. To supplement his 
>explanation: since print *was* a keyword, every use of 'print' in 2.x 
>denotes a print statement with standard semantics. Therefore 2to3 
>*knows* what the statement means and can translate it. On the other 
>hand, 'import string' usually means 'import the string module of the 
>stdlib', but it could mean 'import my string module'. This depends on 
>the execution environment. Moreover, I believe people have intentionally 
>shadowed stdlib modules. So. like it or not, 2to3 cannot know what 
>'import string' means.

Thanks, this dispels some of the mystery.

~K


From harry.python at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 21:42:05 2010
From: harry.python at gmail.com (gashero)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 18:42:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: libpcap and python
References: <mailman.1726.1265028424.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94d87bff-ec51-48c7-80c8-2ef7320f75da@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On 2?1?, ??8?47?, Mag Gam <magaw... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I used tcpdump to capture data on my network. I would like to analyze
> the data using python -- currently using ethereal and wireshark.
>
> I would like to get certain type of packets (I can get the hex code
> for them), what is the best way to do this? Lets say I want to capture
> all events of `ping localhost`
>
> TIA

You need python module "pypcap" or "pcapy" to capture the packet, and
the you can use Python to analyze it.
To decode the internet packet you can use "dpkt".

Good Luck!


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Tue Feb  2 21:46:59 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:46:59 +1100
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
In-Reply-To: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1265165219.2711.13.camel@durian>


> On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 17:28 -0800, Xah Lee wrote:

I know, I know, do not feed the trolls.  But this is just so *wrong*
that I can't help myself.

> In Python, there are 2 ways to clear a hash:

No, no there's not.  There's one way to clear a hash and there's one way
to assign a new object to a variable.

>  ?myHash = {}? and
> ?myHash.clear()?. What is the difference?
> The difference is that ?myHash={}? simply creates a new empty hash and
> assigns to myHash, while ?myHash.clear()? actually clear the hash the
> myHash is pointing to.
> 
> What does that mean?? Here's a code that illustrates:
> 
> # python
> # 2 ways to clear hash and their difference
> aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
> bb = aa
> aa = {}
> print bb # prints {'a': 3, 'b': 4}
> 
> aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
> bb = aa
> aa.clear()
> print bb # prints {}
> 
> This is like this because of the ?reference? concept.

...snip inane babble...

> Languages that do not have any ?reference? or ?object?, or otherwise
> does not require the programer to have some internal model of source
> code, are: Mathematica, JavaScript, PHP. (others may include TCL,
> possibly assembly langs.)


Just so we're all clear exactly how much thought has gone into this
little rant, here's a transcript from a JavaScript session:

  var aa = {};
  var bb = aa;
  aa.hello = "world";
  alert(bb.hello)  -->  "world"
  delete bb.hello
  alert(aa.hello)  -->  "undefined"

OMFG, references!!

Come to think of it, the JavaScript and Python object models are really
very similar.  I'm genuinely curious now - what little sprinkle of magic
fairy dust has earned JavaScript objects the Xah Lee seal of approval
while Python objects miss out?


   Ryan




-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb  2 22:29:57 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:29:57 -0800
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1812.1265165232.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xiqafro7e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ryan Kelly <ryan at rfk.id.au> writes:
> I know, I know, do not feed the trolls.  But this is just so *wrong*
> that I can't help myself.

See: http://xkcd.com/386/


From xahlee at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 22:36:38 2010
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:36:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1812.1265165232.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c1da0425-67b7-48d2-8db0-a3f30da7953c@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

 ()On Feb 2, 6:46?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 17:28 -0800, Xah Lee wrote:
>
> I know, I know, do not feed the trolls. ?But this is just so *wrong*
> that I can't help myself.
>
> > In Python, there are 2 ways to clear a hash:
>
> No, no there's not. ?There's one way to clear a hash and there's one way
> to assign a new object to a variable.
>
>
>
>
>
> > ??myHash = {}? and
> > ?myHash.clear()?. What is the difference?
> > The difference is that ?myHash={}? simply creates a new empty hash and
> > assigns to myHash, while ?myHash.clear()? actually clear the hash the
> > myHash is pointing to.
>
> > What does that mean?? Here's a code that illustrates:
>
> > # python
> > # 2 ways to clear hash and their difference
> > aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
> > bb = aa
> > aa = {}
> > print bb # prints {'a': 3, 'b': 4}
>
> > aa = {'a':3, 'b':4}
> > bb = aa
> > aa.clear()
> > print bb # prints {}
>
> > This is like this because of the ?reference? concept.
>
> ...snip inane babble...
>
> > Languages that do not have any ?reference? or ?object?, or otherwise
> > does not require the programer to have some internal model of source
> > code, are: Mathematica, JavaScript, PHP. (others may include TCL,
> > possibly assembly langs.)
>
> Just so we're all clear exactly how much thought has gone into this
> little rant, here's a transcript from a JavaScript session:
>
> ? var aa = {};
> ? var bb = aa;
> ? aa.hello = "world";
> ? alert(bb.hello) ?--> ?"world"
> ? delete bb.hello
> ? alert(aa.hello) ?--> ?"undefined"
>
> OMFG, references!!
>
> Come to think of it, the JavaScript and Python object models are really
> very similar. ?I'm genuinely curious now - what little sprinkle of magic
> fairy dust has earned JavaScript objects the Xah Lee seal of approval
> while Python objects miss out?

Thanks. You are right. I think i put JavaScript there without much
thinking.

 Xah


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  2 22:53:44 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:53:44 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hkaneb$1ti$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com>	<mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkaneb$1ti$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkas0p$a2s$1@ger.gmane.org>

kj wrote:
> 
> (For reasons I don't understand Stephen Hansen's posts don't show
> in my news server.  I became aware of his reply from a passing
> reference in one of Terry Reedy's post.  Then I found Hansen's post
> online, and then an earlier one, and pasted the relevant portion
> below.)
> 
> 
> 
>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
> 
> ...*if* you happen to be clairvoyant.  I still don't see how the rest of us
> could have followed this fine principle in the case of numbers.py
> prior to Python 2.6.
> 
Clearly the more you know about the standard library the less likely
this is to be a problem. Had you been migrqating from an earlier version
 the breakage would have alerted you to look for some version-dependent
difference.

>> Secondly, I use packages structuring my libraries, and avoid junk
>> directories of a hundred some odd 'scripts'.
> 
> <small>(I feel so icky now...)</small>
> 
Be as flippant as you like, but that is good advice.

>> Third, I don't execute scripts in that directory structure directly, but
>> instead do python -c 'from package.blah import main; main.main()' or some
>> such. Usually via some short-cut, or a runner batch file.
> 
> Breathtaking...  I wonder why the Python documentation, in particular
> the official Python tutorial, is not more forthcoming with these
> rules.
> 
Because despite the fact that this issue has clearly bitten you badly
enough to sour you against the language, such issues are remarkably rare
in practice and normally rather easier to debug.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 22:55:15 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:55:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.49.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <8104faf3-c4ea-4b1f-8316-f8b17f53554b@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 5:49?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> > I did not propose obvious module names. ?I said obvious names like
> > email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are better.
>
> But surely send_email.py doesn't just send email, it parses email and
> receives email as well?

No, it doesn't.


Carl Banks


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb  2 23:03:08 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:03:08 +1300
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1812.1265165232.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7xiqafro7e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hkasht$im4$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Ryan Kelly <ryan at rfk.id.au> writes:
>> I know, I know, do not feed the trolls.  But this is just so *wrong*
>> that I can't help myself.
> 
> See: http://xkcd.com/386/

:-)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  2 23:52:42 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 04:52:42 GMT
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.49.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<8104faf3-c4ea-4b1f-8316-f8b17f53554b@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.04.52.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:55:15 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Feb 2, 5:49?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
>> > I did not propose obvious module names. ?I said obvious names like
>> > email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are
>> > better.
>>
>> But surely send_email.py doesn't just send email, it parses email and
>> receives email as well?
> 
> No, it doesn't.

Nevertheless, as a general principle, modules will tend to be multi-
purpose and/or generic. How would you rename the math or random modules 
to be less "obvious" and more "descriptive"?

And of course, the less obvious the name, the harder it becomes for 
people to find and use it. Which extreme would you rather?

import zip
import compress_and_decompress_files_to_zip_archives


I'm sympathetic to the position you're taking. It's not bad advice at 
all, but I think you're over-selling it as a complete solution to the 
problem of name clashes. I think it can only slightly alleviate the 
problem of name clashes, not eliminate it.


-- 
Steven


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 00:08:39 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:08:39 -0600
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87bpg6sy7c.fsf@castleamber.com>

Xah Lee <xahlee at gmail.com> writes:

> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

Oh noes, someone is harrassing poor Xah the Usenet spammer. You have
been and still are a major pain in the ass to a lot of Usenet users, and
still surprised that you're not making friends. I mean, what did you
want to do on IRC? Copy paste line by line one of your "fine" articles,
followed by a link to your site. And what the hell were you doing,
asking a Python question in #python? Shouldn't that be asked the Xah way
in #perl or #lisp?

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 00:11:49 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:11:49 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
> to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,

Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
a statement like this.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 00:29:21 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:29:21 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e5feb14-ac34-4246-91f5-dee88aedf159@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk9knz2b.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<2e057a9a-d842-4ca3-ac16-08bb2e1fe590@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <873a1isx8u.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Feb 1, 6:36?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:

[..]

>> It should be $bar = \&foo
>> Your example actually calls foo...
>
> I rest my case. I've been programming perl professionally since 2000,
> and I still make stupid, newbie mistakes like that.

Uhm, in another post you wrote that you could explain Python in an hour
to an experienced programmer and you *still* make mistakes like that in
Perl!?

By the way, the language is called Perl. If you write "I've been
programming perl" in a Perl related group some people might read it as
that you've been working on the internals of the perl executable (in C)

>> > One is simple, consistent, and easy to explain. The other one requires
>> > the introduction of advanced syntax and an entirely new syntax to make
>> > function calls with references.
>>
>> The syntax follows that of referencing and dereferencing:
>>
>> $bar = \@array; ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to array
>> $bar->[ 0 ]; ? ? ? ? ?# first element of array referenced by bar
>> $bar = \%hash; ? ? ? ?# bar contains now a reference to a hash
>> $bar->{ key }; ? ? ? ?# value associated with key of hash ref. by bar
>> $bar = \&foo; ? ? ? ? # bar contains now a reference to a sub
>> $bar->( 45 ); ? ? ? ? # call sub ref. by bar with 45 as an argument
>>
>> Consistent: yes. New syntax? No.
>>
>
> Except for the following symbols and combinations, which are entirely
> new and different from the $@% that you have to know just to use
> arrays and hashes.
>
> \@, ->[ ]

@array, one item: $array[ 1 ];
$arrayref, one item: $arrayref->[ 1 ];

> \%, ->{ }

%hash, one item: $hash{ key };
hence: $hashref, one item: $hash->{ key }

> \&, ->( )

should now be clear ;-)

You *should* have no problem with that if you have been
programming professionally Perl since 2000 IMNSHO. Otherwise print my
post or copy it on a post-it note ;-).

Remember that all this was added to Perl in version 5. So it had to be
added in a way that wouldn't break Perl 4. Perl is, in my experience
quite good in backwards compatibility. Quite some Perl modules on CPAN
work from 5.00x-5.10 and most likely will work without trouble in 5.12.

> By the way:
> * How do you do a hashslice on a hashref?

I will reply like it's a genuine question, and not like "Oh, look, how
silly Perl works". I don't care about that much. I do like Perl and am
starting to like Python.

@$hashref{ 'key1', 'key2', 'key3' };

> * How do you invoke reference to a hash that contains a reference to
> an array that contains a reference to a function?

I guess you mean:

$hashref->{ key }[ index ]( arguments );

The long version is:

$hashref->{ key }->[ index ]->( arguments );

[ Python advocacy snipped]

> I'd rather think of the task at hand than what each of the funky
> symbols on my keyboard mean.

Then just quit programming Perl ;-) Perl has always come naturally to
me, no idea why. Recently I said to a close friend:

Python is like my desk, which I prefer to keep clean and neat.
Perl is like my livingroom, which I prefer to keep clean and neat to
some extend, but some mess is allowed. For example, the cat can be
there. Toys of my daughter are allowed to be all over the place. A
pleasant mess, but not too much.

I won't repeat what I said about PHP ;-).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 00:59:03 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 05:59:03 GMT
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.05.59.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:11:49 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> 
>> I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
>> to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
> 
> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
> a statement like this.

Surely you're exaggerating? 

Without making any aspersions towards Jonathan either way, the Internet 
is full of both blowhards and geniuses. Anyone who lets the off-the-cup 
claims of either ruin their self-confidence is unlikely to be thinking 
about learning Python, they're probably sitting alone in a dark room 
staring as the walls close in.

Either that or on MySpace.



-- 
Steven


From hirotaka.niitsuma at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 01:01:22 2010
From: hirotaka.niitsuma at gmail.com (Niitsuma Hirotaka)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:01:22 +0900
Subject: calling python from lisp
Message-ID: <6ce56e1a1002022201y9654271p9df4afc11dfc4d8b@mail.gmail.com>

Autor: Martin Rubey
Data: 2008-10-29 09:34 +900
Dla: python-list
CC: sage-devel
Temat: calling python from lisp
http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20081029.003410.172560ac.pl.html

>sys:1: RuntimeWarning: Python C API version mismatch for module pol: This Python has API version 1013, module pol has version 1011.

I modified some of pythononlisp including this.
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~niitsuma/pythononlispex.html

plz try.


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 01:03:54 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:03:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 12:45?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
> GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
> arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
> In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
> features in this release:
>
> - Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
> - Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
> - Performance improvements by improved caching.
> - Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
> - Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
> - Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
> ? longer recognized.
>
> Changes since 1.11rc1:
> - Recognizes GMP 5.
> - Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).
>
> Comments on provided binaries
>
> The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
> 1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
> optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
> compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
> instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.
>
> Please report any issues!

My previous replies didn't show up. Something to do the .announce
group? I'll trim that and try again. Sorry if they show up eventually.

Two issues:

1] why does both gmpy 1.11 and gmpy 1.11rc1 both reply

>>> gmpy.version()
'1.11'

Aren't these different versions? How are we supposed to tell them
apart?


2] Is it true that the only changes since 1.11rc1 are not
   applicable to me since

   - I'm not using Windows
   - whether it recognizes GMP 5 is moot as GMP 5 cannot be
     compiled on a Mac (according to GMP site)

Is it possible GMP's problems with getting GMP 5 to compile
are the same ones I had with 3.1 on Snow Leopard? (They bemoan
not having a set of every Mac system.) Think it would behoove
me to try it?


>
> casevh



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 01:20:18 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:20:18 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.05.59.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <87pr4msuvx.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:11:49 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
>
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> 
>>> I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
>>> to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
>> 
>> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
>> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
>> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
>> a statement like this.
>
> Surely you're exaggerating? 

No, because if I was I would've put a smiley there somewhere. I am
learning Python, for a time to be honest. I can manage in the language
quite well.

I consider myself quite an experienced Perl programmer, I have no
problems with the constructs Jonathan elsewhere in this thread claims to
have problems with after 10 years of professional Perl programming. They
come natural to me. But I don't see myself being able to understand
every Python feature in a talk of an hour *with* the current
understanding of Python I have (read halfway through Programming In
Python 3, read selected chapters on decorators, etc.).

> Without making any aspersions towards Jonathan either way, the Internet 
> is full of both blowhards and geniuses. Anyone who lets the off-the-cup 
> claims of either ruin their self-confidence is unlikely to be thinking 
> about learning Python, they're probably sitting alone in a dark room 
> staring as the walls close in.

I am quite serious about learning Python, I do write professionally in
it [1], but I am convinced that I need at least several months more of
studying to feel comfortable with most (not even all) of Python.

To me a much more relastic view on learning a programming language is:
http://norvig.com/21-days.html

[1] very small programs, and my customer is fully aware of that I am
    learning a new language but trust me, which is great.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 01:27:37 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:27:37 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.05.59.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87pr4msuvx.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <87ljfasujq.fsf@castleamber.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:11:49 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
>>>> to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
>>> 
>>> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
>>> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
>>> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
>>> a statement like this.
>>
>> Surely you're exaggerating? 
>
> No, because if I was I would've put a smiley there somewhere. I am
> learning Python, for a time to be honest. I can manage in the language
> quite well.

Clarification: for a beginner that is.

> [1] very small programs, and my customer is fully aware of that I am
>     learning a new language but trust me, which is great.

Should've been "but trusts me,".

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 01:33:20 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:33:20 -0500
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <1e88a2b7-089c-41d0-aadd-38f8586e2466@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1e88a2b7-089c-41d0-aadd-38f8586e2466@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkb5bf$u86$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/2/2010 9:02 PM, alex23 wrote:
> On Feb 3, 9:02 am, John Nagle<na... at animats.com>  wrote:
>>      I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
>> multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
>> ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.
>
> It's a shame that Python 3.x is dead to you, otherwise you'd be able
> to enjoy the new GIL implementation in 3.2: http://www.dabeaz.com/python/NewGIL.pdf
>
> Actually, it looks like you probably still can:
>   + patch for 2.5.4: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/109929
>   + patch for 2.7? http://bugs.python.org/issue7753

The patch was rejected for 2.7 (and earlier) because it could break code 
as explained in the discussion. One would have to apply and compile 
their own binary.



From swrath at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 01:38:56 2010
From: swrath at gmail.com (sWrath swrath)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:38:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: newbie qns : how do i use xmldiff?
Message-ID: <e9313ffe-8192-41c8-a995-1c71f98e15d0@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi ,

I am pretty new to python , and reading up on it.

Basically I am trying to compare xml files . I know difflib have it
but it does not work out as expected. I was looking at xmldiff ,
unfortunately I am not able to find documentation how to call it from
python. Anyone knows a link or doc to it as I have been looking high
and low for few days?

lastly , is there a py (or algorithm) where it behaves exactly like
diff ? Greatly appreciated.

Thanks
john


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 01:43:51 2010
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:43:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: expy 0.5.2 released
Message-ID: <857729.7198.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

expy is an expressway to extend python.

in release 0.5.2, expy now supports custom exceptions, besides all built-in ones, and exception handling is made easy.

for more info, see 

http://expy.sourceforge.net/

cheers,

Yingjie


      


From simonzack at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 03:30:41 2010
From: simonzack at gmail.com (Simon zack)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:30:41 +0800
Subject: exec within function
Message-ID: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>

hi,
I'm not sure how I can use exec within a function correctly
here is the code i'm using:

def a():
    exec('b=1')
    print(b)

a()

this will raise an error, but I would like to see it outputting 1

thanks
smk
-------------- next part --------------
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From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 03:32:58 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:32:58 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC 
Message-ID: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?

I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )

these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
message queues of the receiving process.

example:

'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'

the receiver dos not necesarily have to know who sent the message

a message shall be dropped silently if the receiving process is not running

a message shall be reliably delivered if the receiving process is up


xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.

signals don't allow to exchange data

a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
python's Multiprocessing.Queue  seems to require a common parent process



thanks a lot for any ideas / suggestions



N



N


From masklinn at masklinn.net  Wed Feb  3 03:50:26 2010
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:50:26 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>
	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>

On 2 Feb 2010, at 17:52 , Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> Masklinn wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>  
>>> To add a custom level, I would proceed that way:
>>> 
>>> logging.ALERT = 45
>>> logging.addLevelName(logging.ALERT, 'ALERT !!')
>>> logging.getLogger().log(logging.ALERT, 'test')
>>> 
>>> Passing a string to the log method as you did is incorrect.
>>>    
>> 
>> I know it's currently incorrect. My point was more along the line that there was *no reason* for it to be incorrect. logging already contains all the tools for log('PANTS_ON_FIRE') to be allowed
>>  
> The reason is that log takes an *int* as first argument that defines the logging level. You gave a string. So There is definitely a reason for it to be incorrect.
That's not a reason, that's just what currently happens. I know it doesn't work, and I know why, I went and checked the code. But there's no fundamental reason why you couldn't use a level *name* instead of a level code. And indeed, in most parts of logging you can (including but not limited to the configuration of handlers and loggers)

>>  
>>> Regarding your first point, I guess it's anti pattern. One way to do it:
>>> 1/ Configure the root logger with the lowest value 0, so the root logger does not filter any level.
>>> 2/ Configure each of your logger with the correct level
>>> 
>>> That way you can configure your '0' logger as you (badly :o)) named it with one level, and configure a potential '1' logger with another level. Don't bother with propagation. That way you won't need to duplicate your handlers on every logger.
>>>    
>> 
>> re logger 0, no need for complex name for a test case (and it allowed me to create easy-to-remember 0.1 and 0.1.2 if needed)
>> 
>> Re your answer, from what I understand you want the root logger to NOTSET and then each child logger with its correct level? But that's not a solution, each and every level will *still* require a handler explicitly configured on it. That's in fact very much my issue: logging refuses that a logger be handler-less in a config file, it's mandatory to configure a handler any time a logger is configured.
>>  
> the field handlers must be defined even if empty.
Ah, interesting, I didn't think it could be defined as empty.

Which makes the requirement to have an empty ``handler`` completely nonsensical, doesn't it?



From timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 04:21:44 2010
From: timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com (Timothy N. Tsvetkov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:21:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4da2372c-954c-46b8-a6e9-2768bce812f5@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Jan 28, 2:29?am, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Jan 27, 5:47?am, Simon Brunning <si... at brunningonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I think Python is a little cleaner, but I'm sure you'd find Ruby fans
> > who'd argue the complete opposite.
>
> Are you sure about that?
>
> There's a lot of line noise in Ruby. How are you supposed to pronounce
> "@@"? What about "{|..| ... }"?
>
> There's a lot of "magic" in Ruby as well. For instance, function calls
> are made without parentheses. Blocks can only appear as the first
> argument. There's a lot more, if you put your mind to it.
>
> Indentation is also optional in Ruby. You can quickly fool a newbie by
> not indenting your code properly, which is impossible in Python.
>
> Python is much, much cleaner. I don't know how anyone can honestly say
> Ruby is cleaner than Python.

I will. I developed on both (Python was first) and I think that ruby I
very clean and maybe cleaner than Python. Also I don't know any
situation where you need to pronounce your code symbol by symbol. You
might need to pronounce some semantics.

And you're wrong with blocks.

About indent your right. It helps newbies indent code becouse they
must to. But most of professional developers started with Pascal and
then C and they all indent well :) it is about culture and it is what
about teacher should say.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb  3 04:29:38 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:29:38 -0300
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <op.u7jonolyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:32:58 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:

> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent  
> process)
> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>
> these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
> integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
> message queues of the receiving process.
>
> example:
>
> 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
> 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
> 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'

Try using a named pipe between each pair of processes (os.mkfifo + open on  
Linux, open(r"\\.\pipe\desired_name", ...) on Windows)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 04:34:34 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:34:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 8:32?am, News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?
>
> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>
> these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
> integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
> message queues of the receiving process.
>
> example:
>
> 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
> 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
> 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'
>
> the receiver dos not necesarily have to know who sent the message
>
> a message shall be dropped silently if the receiving process is not running
>
> a message shall be reliably delivered if the receiving process is up
>
> xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>
> signals don't allow to exchange data
>
> a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
> python's Multiprocessing.Queue ?seems to require a common parent process
>
> thanks a lot for any ideas / suggestions
>
> N
>
> N

Gabriel's suggestion is very good; if you need something which is a
little more like RPC but still quite lightweight, consider Pyro
(http://pyro.sourceforge.net/)

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From tinnews at isbd.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 04:45:16 2010
From: tinnews at isbd.co.uk (tinnews at isbd.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:45:16 +0000
Subject: pyfltk ducumentation question
Message-ID: <c6tn37-l1i.ln1@chris.isbd.net>

I have just installed pyfltk version 1.1.4 on my xubuntu 9.10 system,
it's working OK and a fairly trivial little program I have written is
able to pop up a GUI window.

However I'm now a bit stuck as the documentation seems a little
sparse.  For example I'm using FL_Multiline_Output and can't find
enough detail to enable me to use its methods.

I start from:-

    http://pyfltk.sourceforge.net/docs/CH3_Common.html

This tells me that there is a FL_Multiline_Output widget and that it
has a value() method, this is what I have used to display some text in
my little application.

When I click on the FL_Multiline_Output link in the above page it
takes me to:-

    http://pyfltk.sourceforge.net/docs/fltk.html#Fl_Multiline_Output

which lists all the methods and other bits and pieces belonging to
Fl_Multiline_Output but as far as I can see that's it, there is no
further information.  The methods are links but they only link to
themselves, when you click on them the browser moves the method to the
top of the display window.

Am I missing something obvious or do I need the FLTK documentation to
give me the detail I need?

-- 
Chris Green



From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb  3 05:01:55 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:01:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: test -- please ignore
Message-ID: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com>



(my replies in a different comp.lang.python thread are getting
rejected by the server; i have no problem posting to alt.test; and
i'm trying to toubleshoot the problem further.)


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 05:39:58 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 02:39:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 3 feb, 09:34, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sa... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 8:32?am, News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?
>
> > I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> > win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
> > Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> > name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>
> > these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
> > integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
> > message queues of the receiving process.
>
> > example:
>
> > 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
> > 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
> > 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'
>
> > the receiver dos not necesarily have to know who sent the message
>
> > a message shall be dropped silently if the receiving process is not running
>
> > a message shall be reliably delivered if the receiving process is up
>
> > xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>
> > signals don't allow to exchange data
>
> > a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
> > python's Multiprocessing.Queue ?seems to require a common parent process
>
> > thanks a lot for any ideas / suggestions
>
> > N
>
> > N
>
> Gabriel's suggestion is very good; if you need something which is a
> little more like RPC but still quite lightweight, consider Pyro
> (http://pyro.sourceforge.net/)
>
> Regards,
>
> Vinay Sajip

I've read that Pyro is not safe. Anyway, you have in mind that respect
to speed:

shared memory > named pipes > Unix domain socket > TCP socket

I don't sure about if the message queues would be faster that Unix
domain sockets

Another thing. Using shared memory would be as to use a single thread
but using message queues would be as multiple-threading.


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 05:46:16 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:46:16 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1821.1265189401.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1821.1265189401.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6953f8$0$17133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,

I'll look at it.
I wasn't aware about named pipes for windows.

bye


N


Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:32:58 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
>> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent
>> process)
>> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
>> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>>
>> these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
>> integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
>> message queues of the receiving process.
>>
>> example:
>>
>> 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
>> 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
>> 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'
> 
> Try using a named pipe between each pair of processes (os.mkfifo + open
> on Linux, open(r"\\.\pipe\desired_name", ...) on Windows)
> 


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb  3 05:50:19 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:50:19 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
	<800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>
Message-ID: <4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>


>> The reason is that log takes an *int* as first argument that defines the logging level. You gave a string. So There is definitely a reason for it to be incorrect.
>>     
> That's not a reason, that's just what currently happens. I know it doesn't work, and I know why, I went and checked the code. But there's no fundamental reason why you couldn't use a level *name* instead of a level code. And indeed, in most parts of logging you can (including but not limited to the configuration of handlers and loggers)
>
>   
You don't neeed to check the code for that ! It is written in the 
documentation. The logging module designer choose to ask for a level, 
not a level name, possibly because 2 different levels can have the same 
name.


>>
>> the field handlers must be defined even if empty.
>>     
> Ah, interesting, I didn't think it could be defined as empty.
>
> Which makes the requirement to have an empty ``handler`` completely nonsensical, doesn't it?
>
>   

'completeley nonsensical' is overstating.  It make sense to state that 
your handler list is empty, when it is empty. Having no field at all 
could possibly mean the same, but it's often better that have one 
consisten way to interface with a module.


JM


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Feb  3 05:54:19 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:54:19 +0000
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6955DB.2060604@timgolden.me.uk>

[News123<news... at free.fr>]
>>> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?

...

>>> xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>>
>>> signals don't allow to exchange data
>>
>>> a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
>>> python's Multiprocessing.Queue  seems to require a common parent process

[Vinay Sajip]
>> Gabriel's suggestion is very good; if you need something which is a
>> little more like RPC but still quite lightweight, consider Pyro
>> (http://pyro.sourceforge.net/)

[peloko45 at gmail.com]
> I've read that Pyro is not safe.

That's a fairly broad thing to say. I've read lots
of things. What does "is not safe" mean, in any case?
I assume you've got a valid concern in mind which is
worth passing on to a would-be user, but what exactly
is it? FWIW I've used Pyro on and off over the years
without any problems. Certainly my computer's never
blown up as a result of using it.

Obviously Pyro is Python-only so interaction with non-Python
code would be problematic. But the OP only mentions Python
scripts so hopefully that wouldn't be an issue...

>Anyway, you have in mind that respect to speed:
>
> shared memory>  named pipes>  Unix domain socket>  TCP socket

True, but the OP didn't mention speed; rather simplicity. Not
saying it isn't a consideration but premature optimisation and
all that...

> Another thing. Using shared memory would be as to use a single thread
> but using message queues would be as multiple-threading.

And therefore...?

I think you need to make your points more clearly.

TJG


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Feb  3 05:55:57 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:55:57 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1779.1265099894.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002030255h5b7de55enea26a063246657b5@mail.gmail.com>

>>> I like seeing them in the same place as the source file, because when I
>>> start developing a module, I often end up renaming it multiple times
>>> before it settles on a final name. When I rename or move it, I delete
>>> the .pyc file, and that ensures that if I miss changing an import, and
>>> try to import the old name, it will fail.
>>>
>>> By hiding the .pyc file elsewhere, it is easy to miss deleting one, and
>>> then the import won't fail, it will succeed, but use the old, obsolete
>>> byte code.
>>
>>
>> Okay, I see your point but I think your argument about importing shows
>> that python is doing something suboptimal because I have to worry about
>> .pyc files. Ideally, I only would need to worry about python source
>> files.
>
> That's no different from any language that is compiled: you have to worry
> about keeping the compiled code (byte code or machine language) in sync
> with the source code.

True.

> Python does most of that for you: it automatically recompiles the source
> whenever the source code's last modified date stamp is newer than that of
> the byte code. So to a first approximation you can forget all about
> the .pyc files and just care about the source.

True, but the .pyc file is lying around and I always have to do 'ls
-al | grep -v pyc' in my python source directory.

> But that's only a first approximation. You might care about the .pyc
> files if:
>
> (1) you want to distribute your application in a non-human readable
> format;

Sure, I do care about pyc files, of course, I just would prefer to
have them at a separate location.

> (2) if you care about clutter in your file system;

You mean having an extra directory structure for the pyc files? This I
think would be better than having the pyc files in the source
directory, but we are getting into 'gut feelings' territory :)

> (3) if you suspect a bug in the compiler;

If the pyc files are somewhere else you can still inspect them if you want.

> (4) if you are working with byte-code hacks;

Again, just because they are somewhere else doesn't mean you can't get to them.

> (5) if the clock on your PC is wonky;

Same as above.

> (6) if you leave random .pyc files floating around earlier in the
> PYTHONPATH than your source files;
>
> etc.
>
>
>
>
>> There is now a chance to 'fix' (quotation marks because maybe
>> there is nothing to fix, according to some) this issue and make all pyc
>> files go away and having python magically doing the right thing.
>
> Famous last words...
>
> The only ways I can see to have Python magically do the right thing in
> all cases would be:
>
> (1) Forget about byte-code compiling, and just treat Python as a purely
> interpreted language. If you think Python is slow now...

I'm not advocating this option, naturally.

> (2) Compile as we do now, but only keep the byte code in memory. This
> would avoid all worries about scattered .pyc files, but would slow Python
> down significantly *and* reduce functionality (e.g. losing the ability to
> distribute non-source files).

I'm not advocating this option either.

> Neither of these are seriously an option.

Agreed.

>> A
>> central pyc repository would be something I was thinking about, but I
>> admit it's a half baked or not even that, probably quarter baked idea.
>
> A central .pyc repository doesn't eliminate the issues developers may
> have with byte code files, it just puts them somewhere else, out of
> sight, where they are more likely to bite.

Here is an example: shared object files. If your code needs them, you
can use them easily, you can access them easily if you want to, but
they are not in the directory where you keep your C files. They are
somewhere in /usr/lib for example, where they are conveniently
collected, you can inspect them, look at them, distribute them, do
basically whatever you want, but they are out of the way, and 99% of
the time while you develop your code, you don't need them. In the 1%
of the case you can easily get at them in the centralized location,
/usr/lib in our example.

Of course the relationship between C source files and shared objects
is not parallel to the relationship to python source files and the
created pyc files, please don't nitpick on this point. The analogy is
in the sense that your project inevitable needs for whatever reason
some binary files which are rarely needed at hand, only the
linker/compiler/interpreter/etc needs to know where they are. These
files can be stored separately, but at a location where one can
inspect them if needed (which rarely happens).

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From eden at bicikl.  Wed Feb  3 06:05:02 2010
From: eden at bicikl. (Eden Kirin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:05:02 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hkbl8u$s42$1@nntp.amis.hr>

On 03.02.2010 09:32, News123 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?

Consider using Thrift (http://incubator.apache.org/thrift/). It is 
multiplatform multilanguage RPC and IPC solution. I implemented it in 
couple of my projects and it works seamlessly.

-- 
www.vikendi.net -/- www.supergrupa.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb  3 06:05:08 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:05:08 +1100
Subject: test -- please ignore
References: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87wryumvff.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

kj <no.email at please.post> writes:

> (my replies in a different comp.lang.python thread are getting
> rejected by the server; i have no problem posting to alt.test; and
> i'm trying to toubleshoot the problem further.)

Thank you for this explanation. It is important to know that you've
tried the less obtrusive diagnostics first. Good hunting.

-- 
 \       ?To have the choice between proprietary software packages, is |
  `\      being able to choose your master. Freedom means not having a |
_o__)                        master.? ?Richard M. Stallman, 2007-05-16 |
Ben Finney


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 06:10:21 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:10:21 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
and love it a much.
I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.

Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

Well. I understand that it is a very ambitious and experimental stuff.
Great efforts and motivation needed even to get something "runnable".
So I am looking for someone to get in kind of "virtual partnership".
If someone interesting it that soft of stuff, I would like to talk and
discuss this system.

Vladimir Ignatov


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 06:31:14 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:31:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6b65c778-f905-4eb6-b077-523fbea8e22c@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 3 feb, 10:54, Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> [News123<news... at free.fr>]
>
> >>> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?
>
> ...
>
> >>> xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>
> >>> signals don't allow to exchange data
>
> >>> a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
> >>> python's Multiprocessing.Queue ?seems to require a common parent process
>
> [Vinay Sajip]
>
> >> Gabriel's suggestion is very good; if you need something which is a
> >> little more like RPC but still quite lightweight, consider Pyro
> >> (http://pyro.sourceforge.net/)
>
> [pelok... at gmail.com]
>
> > I've read that Pyro is not safe.
>
> That's a fairly broad thing to say. I've read lots
> of things. What does "is not safe" mean, in any case?
> I assume you've got a valid concern in mind which is
> worth passing on to a would-be user, but what exactly
> is it? FWIW I've used Pyro on and off over the years
> without any problems. Certainly my computer's never
> blown up as a result of using it.
>From its own page:
"Pyro has never been truly designed to provide a secure communication
mechanism, nor has it had a security review or -test by a security
expert."
http://pyro.sourceforge.net/features.html

> Obviously Pyro is Python-only so interaction with non-Python
> code would be problematic. But the OP only mentions Python
> scripts so hopefully that wouldn't be an issue...


From masklinn at masklinn.net  Wed Feb  3 06:36:53 2010
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:36:53 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
	<800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>
	<4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <6B7EE46E-CECB-42CB-AA6B-5986E1A2210D@masklinn.net>

On 3 Feb 2010, at 11:50 , Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> 
>>> The reason is that log takes an *int* as first argument that defines the logging level. You gave a string. So There is definitely a reason for it to be incorrect.
>>>    
>> That's not a reason, that's just what currently happens. I know it doesn't work, and I know why, I went and checked the code. But there's no fundamental reason why you couldn't use a level *name* instead of a level code. And indeed, in most parts of logging you can (including but not limited to the configuration of handlers and loggers)
>> 
> You don't neeed to check the code for that ! It is written in the documentation. The logging module designer choose to ask for a level, not a level name, possibly because 2 different levels can have the same name.
> 
Nope, 2 different levels cannot have the same name: levels are currently stored in a dict of string:level and level:string, so you can't have 2 names for the same level, and you can't have 2 levels with the same name either.

>>> 
>>> the field handlers must be defined even if empty.
>>>    
>> Ah, interesting, I didn't think it could be defined as empty.
>> 
>> Which makes the requirement to have an empty ``handler`` completely nonsensical, doesn't it?
> 'completeley nonsensical' is overstating.  It make sense to state that your handler list is empty, when it is empty.
Programmatically, that's implied in the fact that you aren't specifying it. Why wouldn't it be in the config file? Why the asymetry here?



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 08:04:03 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:04:03 -0800
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xtytyzd18.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

News123 <news123 at free.fr> writes:
> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )

If they are running on the same host with no untrusted local users, you
can use unix-domain sockets instead of TCP sockets and then the server
should be unreachable from the internet.  Then you're less exposed to
possible security issues with libraries like Pyro.  Personally I've just
used SocketServer/SimpleHTTPServer on the listening side and simplejson
for serialization, but that was for low-rent, low-performance
applications.  If you want something faster, zeromq (www.zeromq.org)
looks interesting.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 08:07:28 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:07:28 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xpr4mzcvj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Vladimir Ignatov <kmisoft at gmail.com> writes:
> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.

Yes, this is a well known drawback of dynamic typing.  The usual remedy
is lots and lots of test automation (a full suite of unit and
integration tests that you run on every build, that check the properties
of basically every function in your program).

> Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems 

I've never used a current CAD system, so I can't make any sense of this.
I don't see how databases would help.  


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Feb  3 08:16:45 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:16:45 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <7xpr4mzcvj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7xpr4mzcvj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4b69773e$0$6577$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Paul Rubin, 03.02.2010 14:07:
>> Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems 
> 
> I've never used a current CAD system, so I can't make any sense of this.
> I don't see how databases would help.  

Just like they help in current IDEs to index the source code.

Stefan


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Feb  3 08:18:40 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:18:40 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 14:10 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
> Hello,
> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
> and love it a much.
> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.

Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:

class.method(sting name, int count) 

- is *obviously* more expressive than -

class.method(name, count)

Oh, well.  

This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
a string... a list... ?"

Not knocking Python;  Python is great.  I maintain a rapidly growing
Python code base.  But the above is almost comically funny sometimes
[sand.insert_head(pythonista)].

> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

Ugh, please NO!  This has been attempted many many times in many
environments - it always fails *terribly*.

> Well. I understand that it is a very ambitious and experimental stuff.
> Great efforts and motivation needed even to get something "runnable".
> So I am looking for someone to get in kind of "virtual partnership".
> If someone interesting it that soft of stuff, I would like to talk and
> discuss this system.




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb  3 08:32:01 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:32:01 +0100
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
In-Reply-To: <6B7EE46E-CECB-42CB-AA6B-5986E1A2210D@masklinn.net>
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net>	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
	<800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net>
	<4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>
	<6B7EE46E-CECB-42CB-AA6B-5986E1A2210D@masklinn.net>
Message-ID: <4B697AD1.8070602@sequans.com>

Masklinn wrote:
> On 3 Feb 2010, at 11:50 , Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> You don't neeed to check the code for that ! It is written in the documentation. The logging module designer choose to ask for a level, not a level name, possibly because 2 different levels can have the same name.
>>
>>     
> Nope, 2 different levels cannot have the same name: levels are currently stored in a dict of string:level and level:string, so you can't have 2 names for the same level, and you can't have 2 levels with the same name either.
>
>   
import logging
logging.addLevelName(5, 'test')
logging.addLevelName(6, 'test')

logging._levelNames
{0: 'NOTSET',
 5: 'test',
 6: 'test',
 10: 'DEBUG',
 20: 'INFO',
 30: 'WARNING',
 40: 'ERROR',
 50: 'CRITICAL',
 'CRITICAL': 50,
 'DEBUG': 10,
 'ERROR': 40,
 'INFO': 20,
 'NOTSET': 0,
 'WARN': 30,
 'WARNING': 30,
 'test': 6}

now quoting the doc:

logging.addLevelName(/lvl/, /levelName/)
    Associates level /lvl/ with text /levelName/ in an internal
    dictionary, which is *used to map numeric levels to a textual
    representation*, for example when a Formatter
    <http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#logging.Formatter>
    formats a message. This function can also be used to define your own
    levels. The only constraints are that all levels used must be
    registered using this function, levels should be positive integers
    and they should increase in increasing order of severity.


int -> string is the public association
string- > int is an internal hack to map easilty map Level name to their 
int identifier. This is used for the config file, where you specify a 
string not an int (you vrite level=DEBUG, not level=10)

Look at the builtin WARNING & WARN level, two different names for the 
same level.

In any case, you have to trust the documentation and public interface 
signature. Introspecting the code can be misleading. Now I better 
understand your initial concern.

>>>> the field handlers must be defined even if empty.
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> Ah, interesting, I didn't think it could be defined as empty.
>>>
>>> Which makes the requirement to have an empty ``handler`` completely nonsensical, doesn't it?
>>>       
>> 'completeley nonsensical' is overstating.  It make sense to state that your handler list is empty, when it is empty.
>>     
> Programmatically, that's implied in the fact that you aren't specifying it. Why wouldn't it be in the config file? Why the asymetry here?
>
>   
Note how progammatically the list of handlers is set to an empty list. 
The attribute handlers is always set, so the config file field shall be :o)

In [11]: logger = logging.getLogger('test')

In [12]: logger.handlers
Out[12]: []



JM


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Feb  3 08:35:41 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:35:41 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b697bae$0$6587$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Adam Tauno Williams, 03.02.2010 14:18:
> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"
> 
> Not knocking Python;  Python is great.  I maintain a rapidly growing
> Python code base.  But the above is almost comically funny sometimes
> [sand.insert_head(pythonista)].

So, what's "pythonista" in the above? A dummy?

Stefan


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb  3 08:51:46 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:51:46 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <4B697F72.30609@sequans.com>

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
> to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>
> class.method(sting name, int count) 
>
> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>
> class.method(name, count)
>
>   
class.method(string name, int count):
"""Return the cap'tain's age.

    name: a string giving the name of the cap'tain daughter
    count: an int giving the number of fingers left in the cap'tain 
right hand
"""

In python, attributes/parameters have no type (but you know that). By 
specifying them in the method signature, you're just duplicating the 
information hold in the docstring.

JM


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb  3 08:52:03 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:52:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>



Steve, I apologize for the snarkiness of my previous reply to you.
After all, I started the thread by asking the forum for advice on
how to avoid a certain kind of bugs, you were among those who gave
me advice.  So nothing other than thanking you for it was in order.
I just let myself get carried away by my annoyance with the Python
import scheme.  I'm sorry about it.  Even though I don't think I
can put to practice all of your advice, I can still learn a good
deal from it.

Cheers,

~kj


Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

>kj wrote:
>> 
>>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>> 
>> ...*if* you happen to be clairvoyant.  I still don't see how the rest of us
>> could have followed this fine principle in the case of numbers.py
>> prior to Python 2.6.
>> 
>Clearly the more you know about the standard library the less likely
>this is to be a problem. Had you been migrqating from an earlier version
> the breakage would have alerted you to look for some version-dependent
>difference.

<snip>



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 08:54:26 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:54:26 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030554q6ffb5088ke4564200037e5366@mail.gmail.com>

> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"

Exactly. Often I don't need to know the exact type, but to figure out
that "kind of type" it is.

>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
>> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
>> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> Ugh, please NO! ?This has been attempted many many times in many
> environments - it always fails *terribly*.

Can you give some examples of such systems? (maybe just names for
googling for)  I don't see anything dirt in storing some additional
meta-information about the code under development and using it later
for all kind of benefits (easy refactoring for example). As with your
example with "parameter x", some additional information can be
"attached" to this paramer. Later it can be used during
code-generation phase and placed as "comment" in source code or placed
in popup tag in html-style presentation.

Vladimir Ignatov


From marco.salden at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 09:18:40 2010
From: marco.salden at gmail.com (Marco Salden)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:18:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8d0dcc8-9039-4453-8556-647ecc8057d4@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 12:10?pm, Vladimir Ignatov <kmis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
> and love it a much.
> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.
>
> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> Well. I understand that it is a very ambitious and experimental stuff.
> Great efforts and motivation needed even to get something "runnable".
> So I am looking for someone to get in kind of "virtual partnership".
> If someone interesting it that soft of stuff, I would like to talk and
> discuss this system.
>
> Vladimir Ignatov

The maintenance thing may be true but for me that doesn't outweigh the
clear benefits I get from using Python i.s.o. e.g. C++: the fact that
I have much less code that is more compact and for me more directly
readable is a clear advantage when doing maintance on code I didnt
touch for a while. Documenting the essential parameters used with some
examples and some logging helps (for me at least...).

The type of IDE you are looking for is more something like Rational
Rose (e.g. RRT?) type of tooling perhaps? There you "CAD" components
and their statebehavior and the system generates C or C++ code.

Regards,
Marco


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 09:42:52 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:42:52 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> writes:
> class.method(string name, int count):
> """Return the cap'tain's age.
>
>    name: a string giving the name of the cap'tain daughter
>    count: an int giving the number of fingers left in the cap'tain
> right hand
> """
>
> In python, attributes/parameters have no type (but you know that). By
> specifying them in the method signature, you're just duplicating the
> information hold in the docstring.

It's not enough to just document (except as an aid to remembering) since
the compiler and runtime don't enforce the documentation.  You have to
use static typing or write tests, to flag all the call sites if you
change the signature.  One nice trick with static types is if you change
what the method does (even if its type signature doesn't change), you
can rename the method:

   class.method2(string name, int count):  # change 'method' to 'method2'

and recompile your codebase.  Every place in the code that called
'method' now gets a compile time "undefined method" error that you can
examine to see if you need to update it.  This is something you can't
catch with unit tests because the call sites can be in distant modules.


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 09:58:25 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:58:25 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <a8d0dcc8-9039-4453-8556-647ecc8057d4@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8d0dcc8-9039-4453-8556-647ecc8057d4@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030658w181f8c9fp62b6f45d481b081f@mail.gmail.com>

> The maintenance thing may be true but for me that doesn't outweigh the
> clear benefits I get from using Python i.s.o. e.g. C++: the fact that
> I have much less code that is more compact and for me more directly
> readable is a clear advantage when doing maintance on code I didnt
> touch for a while. Documenting the essential parameters used with some
> examples and some logging helps (for me at least...).

Python is very easy to write. But with code grow and time passes,
things get worse. Currently I tries to reanimate one of my old
freeware project and faced it again.

> The type of IDE you are looking for is more something like Rational
> Rose (e.g. RRT?) type of tooling perhaps? There you "CAD" components
> and their statebehavior and the system generates C or C++ code.

Perhaps. I newer use Rational Rose but hear about it. But I use some
other Rational* products and they scare me a lot. So maybe Rose can be
used for "inspiration" but not much more.  Actually I don't want to
put programmer in GUI-fashioned env. with a lot of buttons and
switches. I think about "classic" text-like view but that actually
"understands" that are you doing (typing) on. So your types goes in
"datastore" first and then renders back as a text representation.
Something like this.

Vladimir Ignatov


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb  3 10:03:22 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:03:22 +0000
Subject: Need help with a program
References: <96db4cd6-bda3-42db-a592-83d72e517e2d@28g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<a3ddc086-7cfa-4853-9a2c-28abf374dc66@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4B61CE0E.5000801@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1551.1264701475.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkab6p$jk6$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.15.00.46.328000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:07:05 -0800, Aahz wrote:

>>If you have a problem and you think that regular expressions are the
>>solution then now you have two problems.  Regex is really overkill for
>>the OP's problem and it certainly doesn't improve readability.
> 
> If you're going to use a quote, it works better if you use the exact
> quote and attribute it:
> 
> 'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
> regular expressions."  Now they have two problems.' --Jamie Zawinski

He may have mixed that one up with a different (and more generic) saying:

	"If you think that X is the solution to your problem, then you don't
	understand X and you don't understand your problem."

For most values of X.



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:23:00 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:23:00 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <3dfd60f21002030723q393089e9kcfdec36fc2881b29@mail.gmail.com>

> Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
> to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>
> class.method(sting name, int count)
>
> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>
> class.method(name, count)
>
> Oh, well.
>
> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"
>
>
But I thought that was the one of beauties of Python, you don't need to know
if the input parameter is a list or a string.

cheers,
Stef
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From cournape at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:24:00 2010
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:24:00 +0900
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <5b8d13221002030724m109e6d9fubd35c9f4a20b8a94@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:18 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at opengroupware.us> wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 14:10 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
>> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
>> and love it a much.
>> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
>> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
>> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
>> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.
>
> Yes, it certainly does. ?Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
> to that fact. ?Somehow those who brag about the readability and
> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:

Static typing sounds "obviously" better only if you assume everything
else being equal. But the typing system also often goes in the way
when developing large codebases, when you need to refactor things,
etc... So if for a *given* codebase, you get type information, it is
almost certainly very helpful. But when you need to change this
codebase, maybe not so much.

There was a nice paper from people at Adobe which mentioned this very
aspect, focusing on how to maintain a significant codebase, from
prototype-kind of development to maintenance-kind of development:
http://www.ecmascript.org/es4/spec/evolutionary-programming-tutorial.pdf.
It strikes me as a good way to look at this tradeoff between static
and dynamic typing, where the dynamic typing for some "mostly frozen"
code areas has diminishing returns,

David


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:28:19 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:28:19 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>

Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can

> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric


I don't see what the advantage of the use of a database is in a fairly
linear hierarchical structure like python objects and modules.

and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>

You mean something like LabView ?

cheers,
Stef
(btw, my dreams ends up in the same needs)
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From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Feb  3 10:39:53 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:39:53 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <3dfd60f21002030723q393089e9kcfdec36fc2881b29@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<3dfd60f21002030723q393089e9kcfdec36fc2881b29@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265211593.7916.12.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 16:23 +0100, Stef Mientki wrote:
>         Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas
>         to confess
>         to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability
>         and
>         expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>         class.method(sting name, int count)
>         - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>         class.method(name, count)
>         Oh, well.
>         This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where
>         one
>         frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X
>         supposed to be...
>         a string... a list... ?"

> But I thought that was the one of beauties of Python, you don't need
> to know if the input parameter is a list or a string.

You don't need to know; unless of course you want the expected result.



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:48:12 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:48:12 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>

> I don't see what the advantage of the use of a database is in a fairly
> linear hierarchical structure like python objects and modules.

Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be
if system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
portions of text from internal database-alike representation.

> You mean something like LabView ?

No, I don't think so. I never use LabView but imagine it something
very "graphical-oriented". No, I think about more "classic" text view.
But back-ended with "smart" underlying system - not just obvious
"text".

Vladimir Ignatov


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Wed Feb  3 10:49:44 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:49:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Background Zones in Pylab Plot
Message-ID: <1eaf6046-db41-44b5-8c9e-b7a15e4cf078@30g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

I would like to add background zones in pylab plots. Colored sections
of the background that the curves pass through. Is this possible? My
google searches don't turn up anything but maybe my search terms
aren't the right ones.

Thanks


From banibrata.dutta at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:50:16 2010
From: banibrata.dutta at gmail.com (banibrata.dutta at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:50:16 +0000
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
Message-ID: <4b699c58.11435e0a.1137.01ea@mx.google.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Vladimir Ignatov
Sent:  03/02/2010 7:24:26 pm
Subject:  Re: Dreaming of new generation IDE

> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"

Exactly. Often I don't need to know the exact type, but to figure out
that "kind of type" it is.

>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
>> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
>> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> Ugh, please NO! ?This has been attempted many many times in many
> environments - it always fails *terribly*.

Can you give some examples of such systems? (maybe just names for
googling for)  I don't see anything dirt in storing some additional
meta-information about the code under development and using it later
for all kind of benefits (easy refactoring for example). As with your
example with "parameter x", some additional information can be
"attached" to this paramer. Later it can be used during
code-generation phase and placed as "comment" in source code or placed
in popup tag in html-style presentation.

BD> probably close to Java annotations perhaps? And as for the CAD approach, would a UML reverse engg tool help ? If yes, perhaps you could give BOUML a shot.

Regards,
Banibrata


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb  3 10:50:56 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:50:56 +0000
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
References: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>
	<mailman.1801.1265144876.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.15.48.19.390000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:07:50 +1100, Astan Chee wrote:

> Sorry for being vague but here my question about converting an xml into 
> a dict. I found some examples online but none gives the dict/result I 
> want.


> Which is kinda wrong. I expect the dict to have the "Space usage 
> summary", but it doesn't (duplicate?). What am I doing wrong here?
> I am attempting to keep the attribute value of an XML as key (if it 
> doesn't have a value, then just the tag name will do) and associate it 
> with the text value of that tag/attribute value as well as reflecting 
> the hierarchy structure of the XML in the dict. Does this make sense?
> Anyway, the python script above is just the first step or an example for me.

The code you're using expects the XML to follow a particular format, and
yours doesn't.

You might want to start with a fairly direct translation, e.g.:

def xmldict(e):
    d = {}
    d['tag'] = e.tag
    d.update(e.attrib)
    children = map(xmldict, e)
    if children:
	d['children'] = children
    text = e.text.strip()
    if text:
	d['text'] = text
    return d

tree = ElementTree.parse('test.xml')
root = tree.getroot()
d = xmldict(root)
pprint.pprint(d)

then refine this as needed.



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 10:52:52 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:52:52 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B699BD4.1010703@gmail.com>

On 03-02-2010 16:48, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> I don't see what the advantage of the use of a database is in a fairly
>> linear hierarchical structure like python objects and modules.
>>      
> Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
> environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be
> if system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
> portions of text from internal database-alike representation.
>    
I think every IDE (not older than 20 years) does that already.
cheers,
Stef



From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb  3 11:17:52 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:17:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <hkbv23$c07$1 at reader2.panix.com> kj <no.email at please.post> writes:


>Steve, I apologize for the snarkiness of my previous reply to you.
>After all, I started the thread by asking the forum for advice on
>how to avoid a certain kind of bugs, you were among those who gave
>me advice.  So nothing other than thanking you for it was in order.
>I just let myself get carried away by my annoyance with the Python
>import scheme.  I'm sorry about it.  Even though I don't think I
>can put to practice all of your advice, I can still learn a good
>deal from it.


Boy, that was dumb of me.  The above apology was meant for Stephen
Hansen, not Steve Holden.  I guess this is now a meta-apology...
(Sheesh.)

~kj



From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb  3 11:23:58 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:23:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: test -- please ignore
References: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com> <87wryumvff.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hkc7uu$jt$2@reader2.panix.com>

In <87wryumvff.fsf at benfinney.id.au> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:

>kj <no.email at please.post> writes:

>> (my replies in a different comp.lang.python thread are getting
>> rejected by the server; i have no problem posting to alt.test; and
>> i'm trying to toubleshoot the problem further.)

>Thank you for this explanation. It is important to know that you've
>tried the less obtrusive diagnostics first. Good hunting.

I figured out the immediate reason for the failure: when replying
to *certain posts*, my newsreader omits the Newsgroups header from
the response.  Why it does this is still a mystery to me, but at
least now I know what to look out for.  Then again, I use the
"venerable" (i.e. decrepit) nn as newsreader, so this discovery
probably won't help many of those reading this...


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Feb  3 11:33:57 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:33:57 +0000
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B69A575.2020604@timgolden.me.uk>

On 03/02/2010 16:17, kj wrote:
> Boy, that was dumb of me.  The above apology was meant for Stephen
> Hansen, not Steve Holden.  I guess this is now a meta-apology...
> (Sheesh.)

You see? That's what I like about the Python community:
people even apologise for apologising :)

TJG


From casevh at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 11:37:36 2010
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:37:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org> 
	<e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb7ede09-86a9-4c41-a643-309a344e9729@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 10:03?pm, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 12:45?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Everyone,
>
> > I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
> > GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
> > arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:
>
> >http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
> > In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
> > features in this release:
>
> > - Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
> > - Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
> > - Performance improvements by improved caching.
> > - Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
> > - Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
> > - Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
> > ? longer recognized.
>
> > Changes since 1.11rc1:
> > - Recognizes GMP 5.
> > - Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).
>
> > Comments on provided binaries
>
> > The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
> > 1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
> > optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
> > compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
> > instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.
>
> > Please report any issues!
>
> My previous replies didn't show up. Something to do the .announce
> group? I'll trim that and try again. Sorry if they show up eventually.
>
> Two issues:
>
> 1] why does both gmpy 1.11 and gmpy 1.11rc1 both reply
>
> >>> gmpy.version()
>
> '1.11'
>
> Aren't these different versions? How are we supposed to tell them
> apart?

Check the name of source tarball?

gmpy._cvsid() will return the internal source code revision number.
The changes made in each revision number are listed at
http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/source/list.

I know some applications check gmpy.version(). I don't know if they'll
work if the format of the string changes.

>
> 2] Is it true that the only changes since 1.11rc1 are not
> ? ?applicable to me since
>
> ? ?- I'm not using Windows
> ? ?- whether it recognizes GMP 5 is moot as GMP 5 cannot be
> ? ? ?compiled on a Mac (according to GMP site)

Yes. The only change for GMP 5 was to recognize the new version number
when running the tests.

>
> Is it possible GMP's problems with getting GMP 5 to compile
> are the same ones I had with 3.1 on Snow Leopard? (They bemoan
> not having a set of every Mac system.) Think it would behoove
> me to try it?

According to comments on GMP's mailing list, the latest snapshot
should work.
ftp://ftp.gmplib.org/pub/snapshot/

>
>
>
> > casevh
>
>



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb  3 11:38:47 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Feb 2010 08:38:47 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<slrnhm3ojr.lqh.jrh@polaris.joshh.co.uk>
	<b9c88f31-832d-4810-9032-79b8fc4f6379@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkc8qn$b4i$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>	I shall blaspheme, and suggest that maybe the language you want to
>use is REXX (ooREXX or Regina).
>
>	By default, ANY statement that can not be confused for a REXX
>language statement is sent to the currently defined command handler
>(Which on most OSs is equivalent to Python's os.system() call; the late
>Amiga, and IBM's mainframe OS had features that support defining other
>applications as command handlers).

How is that different from bash scripting?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb  3 11:40:59 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Feb 2010 08:40:59 -0800
Subject: test -- please ignore
References: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com> <87wryumvff.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hkc7uu$jt$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkc8ur$al7$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hkc7uu$jt$2 at reader2.panix.com>, kj  <no.email at please.post> wrote:
>
>I figured out the immediate reason for the failure: when replying
>to *certain posts*, my newsreader omits the Newsgroups header from
>the response.  Why it does this is still a mystery to me, but at
>least now I know what to look out for.  Then again, I use the
>"venerable" (i.e. decrepit) nn as newsreader, so this discovery
>probably won't help many of those reading this...

Perhaps it's similar to problems in the even-more-venerable trn3.6 that
come from excessively long References: headers?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb  3 11:55:40 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:55:40 +0000
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com>
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com>
	<deb07bff-e9ef-4384-a206-c5aad551ef85@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.16.53.03.578000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:38:53 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

>> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
>> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
>> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
>> than in the process' CWD.
>>
>> As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
>> lexically scoped.
> 
> Mostly incorrect.  The CWD is in sys.path only for interactive
> sessions, and when started with -c switch.  When running scripts, the
> directory where the script is located is used instead, not the
> process's working directory.

Okay, so s/CWD/directory containing __main__ script/, but the general
argument still holds.

> So, no, it isn't anything like dynamic scoping.

That's what it looks like to me. The way that an import name is resolved
depends upon the run-time context in which the import occurs.

>> The only situation where the process' CWD should be used is for an import
>> statement in a non-file source (i.e. stdin or the argument to the -c
>> switch).
> 
> It already is that way, chief.
> 
> I think you're misunderstanding what's wrong here; the CWD doesn't
> have anything to do with it.  Even if CWD isn't in the path you still
> get the bad behavior kj noted.  So now what?

Search for imports first in the directory containing the file performing
the import.

This is essentially the situation with gcc; the directory containing the
current file takes precedence over directories specified by -I switches.
If you want to override this, you have to use the -I- switch, which makes
it very unlikely to happen by accident.



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:21:20 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:21:20 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <4B699BD4.1010703@gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B699BD4.1010703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002030921t217f0438ubc7ca5f5fdea41a5@mail.gmail.com>

>> Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
>> environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be
>> if system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
>> portions of text from internal database-alike representation.
>>
>
> I think every IDE (not older than 20 years) does that already.

And fix every reference to it in all files? For python? I don't think
so. I even don't think this is possible at all. That if several
different objects have a similar named method? How will IDE "classify"
calls and renames only some of calls and not others?

Vladimir Ignatov


From tinnews at isbd.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 12:33:21 2010
From: tinnews at isbd.co.uk (tinnews at isbd.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:33:21 +0000
Subject: test -- please ignore
References: <hkbhij$4ve$2@reader2.panix.com> <87wryumvff.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hkc7uu$jt$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1koo37-18b.ln1@chris.isbd.net>

kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:
> In <87wryumvff.fsf at benfinney.id.au> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
> 
> >kj <no.email at please.post> writes:
> 
> >> (my replies in a different comp.lang.python thread are getting
> >> rejected by the server; i have no problem posting to alt.test; and
> >> i'm trying to toubleshoot the problem further.)
> 
> >Thank you for this explanation. It is important to know that you've
> >tried the less obtrusive diagnostics first. Good hunting.
> 
> I figured out the immediate reason for the failure: when replying
> to *certain posts*, my newsreader omits the Newsgroups header from
> the response.  Why it does this is still a mystery to me, but at
> least now I know what to look out for.  Then again, I use the
> "venerable" (i.e. decrepit) nn as newsreader, so this discovery
> probably won't help many of those reading this...

I used to use nn, now I use tin which is fairly similar and still
being maintained.

-- 
Chris Green



From cp.astolfi at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:47:08 2010
From: cp.astolfi at gmail.com (Cpa)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:47:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with os.system
Message-ID: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi there,

I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
*.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.

But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
(I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).

I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.

Any idea ?
Thanks,
Cpa


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:54:20 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:54:20 -0500
Subject: Trouble with os.system
In-Reply-To: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002030954t7768a374l9cfcf5127c56f4d7@mail.gmail.com>

Can you post your code?

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Cpa <cp.astolfi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
> I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
> In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
> *.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.
>
> But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
> correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
> (I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).
>
> I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
> files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.
>
> Any idea ?
> Thanks,
> Cpa
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From cp.astolfi at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 12:58:43 2010
From: cp.astolfi at gmail.com (Cpa)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:58:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with os.system
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Sure.

import sys,re,os
files2create = sys.argv[1:]
os.system('mkdir tmp')

# Some code to create the .tex

# Compile tex files
os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')

Pretty simple, alas.

--
Cpa


On 3 f?v, 18:54, Gerald Britton <gerald.brit... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you post your code?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Cpa <cp.asto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi there,
>
> > I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
> > I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
> > In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
> > *.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.
>
> > But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
> > correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
> > (I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).
>
> > I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
> > files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.
>
> > Any idea ?
> > Thanks,
> > Cpa
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> Gerald Britton



From alan at baselinedata.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 13:01:14 2010
From: alan at baselinedata.co.uk (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:01:14 +0000
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
Message-ID: <4B69B9EA.1040503@baselinedata.co.uk>

I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to 
enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The 
buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but 
this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the 
correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL 
directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).

Is there another way of passing a record-id to a method
a) without it appearing in the URL?
b) without the user being able to fathom-out how to attach which id to 
which URL?

As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone 
from getting the id from the page source-code.  Is it safe to use the 
above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password 
stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the edit/delete 
action?

I am currently using CherryPy 3.2, but I guess the theory could apply to 
any HTTP framework or web app..

Any help would be appreciated.  
Alan Harris-Reid



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:05:30 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:05:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 3:10?am, Vladimir Ignatov <kmis... at gmail.com> wrote:

> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

That's fine so long as I can also treat the source as source, at need.

You may have just reinvented Smalltalk's Squeak editor (reputedly the
testbed for all of modern GUIs...).

Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.

That's why I wrote this:

http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:08:53 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:08:53 -0500
Subject: Trouble with os.system
In-Reply-To: <8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002031008o332c5da9i580f023270a84ba7@mail.gmail.com>

It kinda worked for me but I had to change it a little:

os.system('for file in /tmp/*.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done')

Maybe you're picking up other files in /tmp that  are not .tex files?

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Cpa <cp.astolfi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sure.
>
> import sys,re,os
> files2create = sys.argv[1:]
> os.system('mkdir tmp')
>
> # Some code to create the .tex
>
> # Compile tex files
> os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>
> Pretty simple, alas.
>
> --
> Cpa
>
>
> On 3 f?v, 18:54, Gerald Britton <gerald.brit... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can you post your code?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Cpa <cp.asto... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi there,
>>
>> > I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
>> > I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
>> > In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
>> > *.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.
>>
>> > But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
>> > correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
>> > (I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).
>>
>> > I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
>> > files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.
>>
>> > Any idea ?
>> > Thanks,
>> > Cpa
>> > --
>> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>> --
>> Gerald Britton
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 13:11:33 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:11:33 -0600
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>

Alan Harris-Reid <alan at baselinedata.co.uk> writes:

> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).

You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying information.

> Is there another way of passing a record-id to a method
> a) without it appearing in the URL?

Use a POST request. Note that the user still has to select something,
and that this information is send by the browser, and hence the user can
see this information (and maybe others), and repeat the action with, for
example, a Python program.

> b) without the user being able to fathom-out how to attach which id to
> which URL?

I am not sure what you want to prevent here. If you're afraid that user
A can delete things that belong user B, than "hiding" things or making
them "hard to guess" are not going to help much. If you have several
users, you must use some login procedure (and sessions).

> As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone
> from getting the id from the page source-code.  Is it safe to use the
> above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password
> stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the
> edit/delete action?

Yes. But still make sure that session ids are not easy to guess, and
expire. And make very sure that session ids can't leak to others.

Moreover, each time you modify a database use POST. One could argue to
also use POST for logging out, otherwise another site might be able to
log your users out if they visit that site.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 13:12:48 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:12:48 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xwryudw7z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Alan Harris-Reid <alan at baselinedata.co.uk> writes:
> As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone
> from getting the id from the page source-code.  Is it safe to use the
> above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password
> stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the
> edit/delete action?

Well, if it's really ok for them to delete records programmatically even
if it's ok for them to delete through the web site.  I'd probably
encrypt the post parameters if this was a concern.  


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 13:22:22 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:22:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org> 
	<e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<bb7ede09-86a9-4c41-a643-309a344e9729@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3cdf9936-035f-43db-abb0-a7daacac14ab@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:37?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 2, 10:03?pm, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 12:45?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Everyone,
>
> > > I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
> > > GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
> > > arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:
>
> > >http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
> > > In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
> > > features in this release:
>
> > > - Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
> > > - Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
> > > - Performance improvements by improved caching.
> > > - Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
> > > - Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
> > > - Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
> > > ? longer recognized.
>
> > > Changes since 1.11rc1:
> > > - Recognizes GMP 5.
> > > - Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).
>
> > > Comments on provided binaries
>
> > > The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
> > > 1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
> > > optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
> > > compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
> > > instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.
>
> > > Please report any issues!
>
> > My previous replies didn't show up. Something to do the .announce
> > group? I'll trim that and try again. Sorry if they show up eventually.
>
> > Two issues:
>
> > 1] why does both gmpy 1.11 and gmpy 1.11rc1 both reply
>
> > >>> gmpy.version()
>
> > '1.11'
>
> > Aren't these different versions? How are we supposed to tell them
> > apart?
>
> Check the name of source tarball?
>
> gmpy._cvsid() will return the internal source code revision number.
> The changes made in each revision number are listed athttp://code.google.com/p/gmpy/source/list.

So, '$Id: gmpy.c 237 2010-01-10 03:46:37Z casevh $' would be Revision
237
on that source list?

>
> I know some applications check gmpy.version(). I don't know if they'll
> work if the format of the string changes.

Then gmpy.version() isn't really intended to be a version per se,
it's just a level of compatibility for those programs that care?

>
>
>
> > 2] Is it true that the only changes since 1.11rc1 are not
> > ? ?applicable to me since
>
> > ? ?- I'm not using Windows
> > ? ?- whether it recognizes GMP 5 is moot as GMP 5 cannot be
> > ? ? ?compiled on a Mac (according to GMP site)
>
> Yes. The only change for GMP 5 was to recognize the new version number
> when running the tests.

Good.

>
>
>
> > Is it possible GMP's problems with getting GMP 5 to compile
> > are the same ones I had with 3.1 on Snow Leopard? (They bemoan
> > not having a set of every Mac system.) Think it would behoove
> > me to try it?
>
> According to comments on GMP's mailing list, the latest snapshot
> should work.ftp://ftp.gmplib.org/pub/snapshot/
>

I'll have to see if I can get it to work this weekend. I sure hope I
don't muck it up after after all the trouble I had getting the
previous
one to work.

Thanks for the links.

>
>
>
>
> > > casevh



From python-url at phaseit.net  Wed Feb  3 13:22:58 2010
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:22:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb  3)
Message-ID: <hkceu2$v9q$1@lairds.us>

QOTW:  "I think, in the spirit of the topic, they should hold it at both
places at the same time." - Brian Blais, on whether the Python Concurrency
Workshop, v2.0, should be in Chicago or Denver (in January!)


    The fastest way to consume an iterable until exhaustion:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/c1ae3513a31eb63e/
    
    When inheriting from a built-in class, it isn't obvious which of
    __new__ / __init__ should be overriden:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a453c65be4e0f355/
    
    When importing a module, Python may pick the wrong one due to name
    clashes -- is this avoidable?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fe6430e7980e2a96/
    
    Setting a default encoding for 'print' statements:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/2fb77c8989f63f9d/
    
    Despite its name, the iglob function (in module glob) isn't completely
    lazy:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/d9a8617ec85e926d/
    
    list.pop(0) has very poor performance; collections.deque works better
    in some cases; patch to allow lists to free elements from head (not just
    from tail):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/9221d87f93748b3f/
    
    How to parse ill-formed postal addresses:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/76a4ab9fd7279a4e/
    
    The future of Python 3:
        Adoption by Linux distros and package maintainers:
            http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/69463c4b9b1ecd8f/
        Library support:
            http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/ae138cefffed0d6b/
        Myths and fallacies:
            http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/8b8f4a9f999e33e8/
    
    Why choose Python (and not Ruby) in an introductory course to programming:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/dfe4f6c60032755e/
    
    How an extension module (written in C) may perform cleaning tasks:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fbcb22b4401eaef1/
    
    "Really, the built-in scope is just a built-in module called builtins,
    but you have to import builtins to query built-ins because the name
    builtins is not itself built-in..." (Lutz & Ascher, 'Programming Python')
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/dc719a4d922f2f87/
    
    A new implementation of the GIL allows for much better performance
    in multicore architectures:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/586ef2d3685fa7ea/
    
    After a year of work with relative success, Unladen Swallow (a
    Google sponsored CPython improvement project) asks to be officially
    recognized:
        http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.devel/109919

    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" site:
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 13:24:43 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:24:43 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87zl3qdvo4.fsf@castleamber.com>

Vladimir Ignatov <kmisoft at gmail.com> writes:

> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

Your idea is certainly not new. Moreover, I've been using such an IDE
and implemented support for a (small) language in it:

   Programs are hierarchical compositions of formulae satisfying
   structural and extra-structural relationships. A program editor can
   use knowledge of such relationships to detect and provide immediate
   feedback about violations of them. The Synthesizer Generator is a
   tool for creating such editors from language descriptions. An editor
   designer specifies the desired relationships and the feedback to be
   given when they are violated, as well as a user interface; from the
   specification, the Synthesizer Generator creates a full-screen editor
   for manipulating programs in the language.

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=390010.808247

It might be a good start to read as much as possible on the Synthesizer
Generator if you want to write such an IDE for Python. I am sure you
could write such an IDE in the Synthesizer Generator, but I have no idea
if it's still available. And back when I used it (at university) one had
to pay for it, and most likely was closed source as well.

See also: http://www.google.com/search?q=synthesizer%20generator

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From casevh at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:36:22 2010
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:36:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org> 
	<e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<bb7ede09-86a9-4c41-a643-309a344e9729@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<3cdf9936-035f-43db-abb0-a7daacac14ab@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <167d472a-9981-4575-b463-a36413ed657e@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:22?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:37?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 10:03?pm, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 2, 12:45?am, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Everyone,
>
> > > > I'm pleased to annouce the final release of GMPY 1.11.
> > > > GMPY is a wrapper for the MPIR or GMP multiple-precision
> > > > arithmetic library. GMPY 1.11 is available for download from:
>
> > > >http://code.google.com/p/gmpy/
>
> > > > In addition to support for Python 3.x, there are several new
> > > > features in this release:
>
> > > > - Even faster conversion to/from Python longs.
> > > > - Performance improvements by reducing function overhead.
> > > > - Performance improvements by improved caching.
> > > > - Support for cdivmod, fdivmod, and tdivmod.
> > > > - Unicode strings are accepted on Python 2.x and 3.x.
> > > > - Fixed regression in GMPY 1.10 where True/False were no
> > > > ? longer recognized.
>
> > > > Changes since 1.11rc1:
> > > > - Recognizes GMP 5.
> > > > - Bugs fixed in Windows binaries (MPIR 1.3.0rc3 -> 1.3.1).
>
> > > > Comments on provided binaries
>
> > > > The 32-bit Windows installers were compiled with MinGW32 using MPIR
> > > > 1.3.1 and will automatically recognize the CPU type and use code
> > > > optimized for the CPU at runtime. The 64-bit Windows installers were
> > > > compiled Microsoft's SDK compilers using MPRI 1.3.1. Detailed
> > > > instructions are included if you want to compile your own binary.
>
> > > > Please report any issues!
>
> > > My previous replies didn't show up. Something to do the .announce
> > > group? I'll trim that and try again. Sorry if they show up eventually.
>
> > > Two issues:
>
> > > 1] why does both gmpy 1.11 and gmpy 1.11rc1 both reply
>
> > > >>> gmpy.version()
>
> > > '1.11'
>
> > > Aren't these different versions? How are we supposed to tell them
> > > apart?
>
> > Check the name of source tarball?
>
> > gmpy._cvsid() will return the internal source code revision number.
> > The changes made in each revision number are listed athttp://code.google.com/p/gmpy/source/list.
>
> So, '$Id: gmpy.c 237 2010-01-10 03:46:37Z casevh $' would be Revision
> 237
> on that source list?
>
Correct.
>
>
> > I know some applications check gmpy.version(). I don't know if they'll
> > work if the format of the string changes.
>
> Then gmpy.version() isn't really intended to be a version per se,
> it's just a level of compatibility for those programs that care?

Historically, gmpy really didn't have alpha/beta/rc versions and
gmpy.version() just had the version "number" and didn't indicate the
status. If I change it, I'd rather go to "1.1.1rc1" or "1.2.0a0" but
that might break some applications.

>
>
>
> > > 2] Is it true that the only changes since 1.11rc1 are not
> > > ? ?applicable to me since
>
> > > ? ?- I'm not using Windows
> > > ? ?- whether it recognizes GMP 5 is moot as GMP 5 cannot be
> > > ? ? ?compiled on a Mac (according to GMP site)
>
> > Yes. The only change for GMP 5 was to recognize the new version number
> > when running the tests.
>
> Good.
>
>
>
> > > Is it possible GMP's problems with getting GMP 5 to compile
> > > are the same ones I had with 3.1 on Snow Leopard? (They bemoan
> > > not having a set of every Mac system.) Think it would behoove
> > > me to try it?
>
> > According to comments on GMP's mailing list, the latest snapshot
> > should work.ftp://ftp.gmplib.org/pub/snapshot/
>
> I'll have to see if I can get it to work this weekend. I sure hope I
> don't muck it up after after all the trouble I had getting the
> previous
> one to work.
>
> Thanks for the links.
>
>
>
> > > > casevh
>
>



From cp.astolfi at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:42:44 2010
From: cp.astolfi at gmail.com (Cpa)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with os.system
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1843.1265220537.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <501794ef-bc0c-477f-a282-33b1d4a6c4af@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

No, the tmp folder only contains files, and your modification still
won't work for me.

By the way I have the same error if I do:

files2compile = os.listdir('./tmp/')
for f in files2compile:
    os.system('pdflatex '+f)

--
Cp

On 3 f?v, 19:08, Gerald Britton <gerald.brit... at gmail.com> wrote:
> It kinda worked for me but I had to change it a little:
>
> os.system('for file in /tmp/*.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>
> Maybe you're picking up other files in /tmp that ?are not .tex files?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Cpa <cp.asto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sure.
>
> > import sys,re,os
> > files2create = sys.argv[1:]
> > os.system('mkdir tmp')
>
> > # Some code to create the .tex
>
> > # Compile tex files
> > os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>
> > Pretty simple, alas.
>
> > --
> > Cpa
>
> > On 3 f?v, 18:54, Gerald Britton <gerald.brit... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Can you post your code?
>
> >> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Cpa <cp.asto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi there,
>
> >> > I'm having some trouble with os.system on Fedora 12.
> >> > I have a bunch of .tex files in tmp/ and I want to compile them.
> >> > In my shell, the following commands work perfectly : 'for file in tmp/
> >> > *.tex; do pdflatex "$file"; done'.
>
> >> > But if I use the same command using os.system(), it will compile
> >> > correctly every file except the last one, for which it raises an error
> >> > (I get a prompt, as if I did a syntax error in tex document).
>
> >> > I suspected some kind of escaping issue, but it won't even work with
> >> > files such as : foo.txt, bar.txt.
>
> >> > Any idea ?
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Cpa
> >> > --
> >> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> >> --
> >> Gerald Britton
>
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> Gerald Britton



From python at rcn.com  Wed Feb  3 13:42:51 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:42:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
Message-ID: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team, http://saucelabs.com/about/team,
is hosting two free tutorial open space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.

In the short session, people bringing their laptops should be able to
record a web session in their browser, convert the recorded activity
to a Python script, modify the script to accept a number of inputs ,
and replay the script locally on their laptops.  Once you've learned
how to fully automate your own browser, submit the same script to the
Sauce Labs cloud to run the tests in parallel across multiple browsers
and operating systems, and view the results with instant video
playback.

The tutorials should be of interest to web developers wanting fast,
cross-browser testing and it should be of general interest to anyone
wanting to use Python to automate browser sessions.

The tutorials are being led by Jason Huggins, the creator of Selenium
(an open source web app testing tool http://seleniumhq.org/ ).
Several familiar names from the Python community will also be on-hand:
http://saucelabs.com/about/news/feb-03-2010

Raymond



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 13:54:14 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:54:14 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002030921t217f0438ubc7ca5f5fdea41a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>	<c02acca21002030748t685e1a0bja631136408b170e2@mail.gmail.com>	<4B699BD4.1010703@gmail.com>
	<c02acca21002030921t217f0438ubc7ca5f5fdea41a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B69C656.3050402@gmail.com>

On 03-02-2010 18:21, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>>> Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
>>> environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be
>>> if system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
>>> portions of text from internal database-alike representation.
>>>
>>>        
>> I think every IDE (not older than 20 years) does that already.
>>      
> And fix every reference to it in all files? For python? I don't think
> so. I even don't think this is possible at all.
with tools like inspect it certainly should be possible
>   That if several
> different objects have a similar named method? How will IDE "classify"
> calls and renames only some of calls and not others?
>    
yep, you're right,
the IDE's I use have as the beste  "search / select / rename".

But how often do you must/want to rename something (mature) ?

cheers,
Stef
> Vladimir Ignatov
>    



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Wed Feb  3 13:57:51 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:57:51 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1265223471.7916.25.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 10:05 -0800, Phlip wrote:
> On Feb 3, 3:10 am, Vladimir Ignatov <kmis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> > bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> > new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> > dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> > should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> > of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> > product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
> That's fine so long as I can also treat the source as source, at need.
> You may have just reinvented Smalltalk's Squeak editor (reputedly the
> testbed for all of modern GUIs...).
> Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
> it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.

?  I edit Python in MonoDevelop  2.2;  and I can browse my file,
classes, etc...  So I don't know what you mean by "can't see into the
code".  It works pretty well.

Of course it can't tell that I've set x = {an integer}, as that only
happens at runtime.

> That's why I wrote this:
> http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html




From astan.chee at al.com.au  Wed Feb  3 14:12:22 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:12:22 +1100
Subject: converting XML to hash/dict/CustomTreeCtrl
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.15.48.19.390000@nowhere.com>
References: <4B6756FE.9060206@al.com.au>	<mailman.1801.1265144876.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.15.48.19.390000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <4B69CA96.3090908@al.com.au>

Nobody wrote:
> The code you're using expects the XML to follow a particular format, and
> yours doesn't.
>
> You might want to start with a fairly direct translation, e.g.:
>
> def xmldict(e):
>     d = {}
>     d['tag'] = e.tag
>     d.update(e.attrib)
>     children = map(xmldict, e)
>     if children:
> 	d['children'] = children
>     text = e.text.strip()
>     if text:
> 	d['text'] = text
>     return d
>
> tree = ElementTree.parse('test.xml')
> root = tree.getroot()
> d = xmldict(root)
> pprint.pprint(d)
>
> then refine this as needed.
>   
Thanks, that is simple enough for me to understand. I think I got it now.
Thanks again


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:13:37 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:13:37 -0500
Subject: Trouble with os.system
In-Reply-To: <8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <16651e81002031113k56fa1888kd600239627ab926e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Cpa <cp.astolfi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sure.
>
> import sys,re,os
> files2create = sys.argv[1:]
> os.system('mkdir tmp')
>
> # Some code to create the .tex
>
> # Compile tex files
> os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>
> Pretty simple, alas.

I think your bug is in the lines you chose not to share with us.  I
bet you've forgotten to close the last file you create, so that file
has changes that haven't been flushed out to the disk yet.  Make sure
you call close() on each of the files when you're done writing them.

-- 
Jerry


From cp.astolfi at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:15:56 2010
From: cp.astolfi at gmail.com (Charles-Pierre Astolfi)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 20:15:56 +0100
Subject: Trouble with os.system
In-Reply-To: <16651e81002031113k56fa1888kd600239627ab926e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <223d2274-782e-4f95-b337-98adde9374ef@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1841.1265219668.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<8c385adb-c632-4b03-b875-544c63357887@m31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<16651e81002031113k56fa1888kd600239627ab926e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e6e449121002031115w33872f40pd1a8692ed710cd9c@mail.gmail.com>

That was it ! What a stupid error...

Thank you !
-- 
Cp



On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 20:13, Jerry Hill <malaclypse2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Cpa <cp.astolfi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sure.
>>
>> import sys,re,os
>> files2create = sys.argv[1:]
>> os.system('mkdir tmp')
>>
>> # Some code to create the .tex
>>
>> # Compile tex files
>> os.system('for file in tmp/*; do pdflatex "$file"; done')
>>
>> Pretty simple, alas.
>
> I think your bug is in the lines you chose not to share with us. ?I
> bet you've forgotten to close the last file you create, so that file
> has changes that haven't been flushed out to the disk yet. ?Make sure
> you call close() on each of the files when you're done writing them.
>
> --
> Jerry
>


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 14:22:59 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:22:59 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkciei$cbr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Don't give it another thought. I'd much rather you cared than you didn't ...

regards
 Steve

kj wrote:
> 
> Steve, I apologize for the snarkiness of my previous reply to you.
> After all, I started the thread by asking the forum for advice on
> how to avoid a certain kind of bugs, you were among those who gave
> me advice.  So nothing other than thanking you for it was in order.
> I just let myself get carried away by my annoyance with the Python
> import scheme.  I'm sorry about it.  Even though I don't think I
> can put to practice all of your advice, I can still learn a good
> deal from it.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ~kj
> 
> 
> Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
> 
>> kj wrote:
>>>> First, I don't shadow built in modules. Its really not very hard to avoid.
>>> ...*if* you happen to be clairvoyant.  I still don't see how the rest of us
>>> could have followed this fine principle in the case of numbers.py
>>> prior to Python 2.6.
>>>
>> Clearly the more you know about the standard library the less likely
>> this is to be a problem. Had you been migrqating from an earlier version
>> the breakage would have alerted you to look for some version-dependent
>> difference.
> 
> <snip>
> 


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 14:23:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:23:53 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkcig8$cbr$2@ger.gmane.org>

kj wrote:
> In <hkbv23$c07$1 at reader2.panix.com> kj <no.email at please.post> writes:
> 
> 
>> Steve, I apologize for the snarkiness of my previous reply to you.
>> After all, I started the thread by asking the forum for advice on
>> how to avoid a certain kind of bugs, you were among those who gave
>> me advice.  So nothing other than thanking you for it was in order.
>> I just let myself get carried away by my annoyance with the Python
>> import scheme.  I'm sorry about it.  Even though I don't think I
>> can put to practice all of your advice, I can still learn a good
>> deal from it.
> 
> 
> Boy, that was dumb of me.  The above apology was meant for Stephen
> Hansen, not Steve Holden.  I guess this is now a meta-apology...
> (Sheesh.)
> 
Oh, so you don't like *my* advice? ;-)

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:30:04 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:30:04 +0100
Subject: The best library to create charting application
Message-ID: <hkciq3$dko$1@ger.gmane.org>


The application will display (elaborate) financial charts.

Pygame? Smth else?

<duck>dotnet?


Regards,
mk



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:38:57 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:38:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:57?am, Adam Tauno Williams <awill... at opengroupware.us>
wrote:

> > Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
> > it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.
>
> ? ?I edit Python in MonoDevelop ?2.2; ?and I can browse my file,
> classes, etc... ?So I don't know what you mean by "can't see into the
> code". ?It works pretty well.
>
> Of course it can't tell that I've set x = {an integer}, as that only
> happens at runtime.
>
> > That's why I wrote this:
> > http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html

You just said that your code browsing "works pretty well, except when
it doesn't".

Hence my blog entry. If your editor analyzed your code at runtime,
instead of just static analysis, then it could see that x = an
integer, or an object, no matter how dynamic your language.

--
  Phlip
  http://zeekland.zeroplayer.com/Uncle_Wiggilys_Travels/1


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:43:23 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:43:23 -0800
Subject: The best library to create charting application
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1851.1265225395.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1851.1265225395.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wlkan.5230$4N4.3164@newsfe24.iad>

mk wrote:
> 
> The application will display (elaborate) financial charts.
> 
> Pygame? Smth else?

Back in the day it was Python BLT.

Are you on the Web or the Desktop?

-- 
   Phlip
   http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 14:50:43 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:50:43 +0100
Subject: The best library to create charting application
In-Reply-To: <wlkan.5230$4N4.3164@newsfe24.iad>
References: <mailman.1851.1265225395.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<wlkan.5230$4N4.3164@newsfe24.iad>
Message-ID: <hkck0r$j7l$1@ger.gmane.org>

Phlip wrote:
> mk wrote:
>>
>> The application will display (elaborate) financial charts.
>>
>> Pygame? Smth else?
> 
> Back in the day it was Python BLT.
> 
> Are you on the Web or the Desktop?
> 

Desktop, really (there should be some nominal web interface but the main 
application will be desktop)

Regards,
mk



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 14:59:17 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:59:17 -0500
Subject: exec within function
In-Reply-To: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkckik$lfg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 3:30 AM, Simon zack wrote:
> hi,
> I'm not sure how I can use exec within a function correctly
> here is the code i'm using:
>
> def a():
>      exec('b=1')
>      print(b)
>
> a()
>
> this will raise an error, but I would like to see it outputting 1

Always **copy and paste** **complete error tracebacks** when asking a 
question like this. (The only exception would be if it is v e r y long, 
as with hitting the recursion depth limit of 1000.)



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 15:08:35 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:08:35 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87vdeedqv0.fsf@castleamber.com>

Phlip <phlip2005 at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 3, 10:57?am, Adam Tauno Williams <awill... at opengroupware.us>
> wrote:
>
>> > Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
>> > it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.
>>
>> ? ?I edit Python in MonoDevelop ?2.2; ?and I can browse my file,
>> classes, etc... ?So I don't know what you mean by "can't see into the
>> code". ?It works pretty well.
>>
>> Of course it can't tell that I've set x = {an integer}, as that only
>> happens at runtime.
>>
>> > That's why I wrote this:
>> > http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_editors.html
>
> You just said that your code browsing "works pretty well, except when
> it doesn't".
>
> Hence my blog entry. If your editor analyzed your code at runtime,
> instead of just static analysis, then it could see that x = an
> integer, or an object, no matter how dynamic your language.

In Perl:

my $x = ( 5, "hello", sub {}, [], {} )[ int rand 5 ];

what's $x? The answer is: it depends. 

Moreover, even if your editor analyzes your code at runtime (which is
certainly not always desirable) it might not be able to find out what
the type is of x, simply because it would take too much time to find it
out. (It sounds like you want an editor that solves the halting problem
;-) )

I agree with you that to /some extent/ and editor can do analyses, if it
does compilation as well (and even runs the code, but the latter is not
always desirable). I mentioned the Synthesizer Generator before, which
can do compilation on the fly, if you implement it (or if it has been
implemented for the language you edit with it). I've written a very
simple assembler in it, ages ago, which did assembling on the fly.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 15:09:01 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:09:01 -0500
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <6b65c778-f905-4eb6-b077-523fbea8e22c@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6b65c778-f905-4eb6-b077-523fbea8e22c@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkcl4r$nql$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 6:31 AM, Joan Miller wrote:

>>> I've read that Pyro is not safe.
>>
>> That's a fairly broad thing to say. I've read lots
>> of things. What does "is not safe" mean, in any case?
>> I assume you've got a valid concern in mind which is
>> worth passing on to a would-be user, but what exactly
>> is it? FWIW I've used Pyro on and off over the years
>> without any problems. Certainly my computer's never
>> blown up as a result of using it.
>> From its own page:
> "Pyro has never been truly designed to provide a secure communication
> mechanism, nor has it had a security review or -test by a security
> expert."
> http://pyro.sourceforge.net/features.html

For communication between processes on one machine, that hardly seems to 
be a worry. If it were, I would expect that sending encrypted strings 
would substantially improve things.

That aside, I would wonder whether you could use a master process with a 
gui to haphazardly launch subprocess, so as to avail oneself of 
multiprocessing.Queue.

Terry Jan Reedy



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 15:10:33 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:10:33 -0600
Subject: The best library to create charting application
References: <mailman.1851.1265225395.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r5p2dqrq.fsf@castleamber.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:

> The application will display (elaborate) financial charts.
>
> Pygame? Smth else?

You might want to check out the book "Beginning Python
Visualisation".

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 15:18:51 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:18:51 -0500
Subject: expy 0.5.2 released
In-Reply-To: <857729.7198.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <857729.7198.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <hkclna$q5p$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 1:43 AM, Yingjie Lan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> expy is an expressway to extend python.
>
> in release 0.5.2, expy now supports custom exceptions, besides all built-in ones, and exception handling is made easy.
>
> for more info, see
>
> http://expy.sourceforge.net/

What Python versions does it work with?
There is no indication either above or on the sf page.

tjr



From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:29:15 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:29:15 -0500
Subject: exec within function
In-Reply-To: <hkckik$lfg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkckik$lfg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002031229g64321cbeo538de15417127715@mail.gmail.com>

I get no error:

>>> def a():
...  exec('b=1')
...  print(b)
...
>>> a()
1
>>>


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 2/3/2010 3:30 AM, Simon zack wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>> I'm not sure how I can use exec within a function correctly
>> here is the code i'm using:
>>
>> def a():
>> ? ? exec('b=1')
>> ? ? print(b)
>>
>> a()
>>
>> this will raise an error, but I would like to see it outputting 1
>
> Always **copy and paste** **complete error tracebacks** when asking a
> question like this. (The only exception would be if it is v e r y long, as
> with hitting the recursion depth limit of 1000.)
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From drsalists at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:33:25 2010
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:33:25 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
In-Reply-To: <b8d22a39-b7d4-4244-a35b-f7fdb62a4788@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<9a28cf01-20af-4ce2-9b78-d8529800e4b9@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<b8d22a39-b7d4-4244-a35b-f7fdb62a4788@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B69DD95.2050906@gmail.com>

Joan Miller wrote:
> On 28 ene, 21:40, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> wrote:
>   
>> On Jan 28, 10:20 am, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> I've to call to many functions with the format:
>>>       
>>>>>> run("cmd")
>>>>>>             
>>> were "cmd" is a command with its arguments to pass them to the shell
>>> and run it, i.e.
>>>       
>>>>>>  run("pwd")
>>>>>>             
>>> or
>>>       
>>>>>> run("ls /home")
>>>>>>             
>>> Does anybody knows any library to help me to avoid the use of the main
>>> quotes, and brackets?
>>>       
>>> I would to use anything as:
>>>       
>>> $ ls /home => run("ls /home")
>>>       
>>> or, at least
>>>       
>>> run pwd => run("pwd")
>>>       
>> How about this?
>>
>> def pwd(): return run("pwd")
>>
>> pwd()
>>
>> def ls(l=False, files=()):
>>     args = []
>>     if l: args.insert(0, '-l')
>>     args.append(files)
>>     return run("ls", args)
>>
>> ls(l=True, "/foo")
>>     
>
> There would be to make a function for each system command to use so it
> would be too inefficient, and follow the problem with the quotes.
>
> The best is make a parser into a compiled language
>   
'disagree.

Best is to have a text file outside your program, in which you define 
commands and symbolic names for those commands.

Then you have a python module which reads these commands and names, and 
creates functions that invoke them via the specified name.

This way you get concise syntax, don't have to type as much boilerplate, 
and don't add line noise.

Mixing two languages as though they were the same language greatly 
increases the complexity of the original language with little gain.

Consider PowerShell - it's almost like two different languages smushed 
together, and you have to know how a command was implemented to know how 
to read it.

Also, what if someday The Powers That Be (the python language core 
designers) decide they need to use $ for something?  I hope they won't, 
but if they do, your preprocessor might make quite a mess of it.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 15:34:52 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:34:52 -0500
Subject: newbie qns : how do i use xmldiff?
In-Reply-To: <e9313ffe-8192-41c8-a995-1c71f98e15d0@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <e9313ffe-8192-41c8-a995-1c71f98e15d0@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkcmlb$ch$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 1:38 AM, sWrath swrath wrote:
> Hi ,
>
> I am pretty new to python , and reading up on it.
>
> Basically I am trying to compare xml files . I know difflib have it
> but it does not work out as expected. I was looking at xmldiff ,
> unfortunately I am not able to find documentation how to call it from
> python. Anyone knows a link or doc to it as I have been looking high
> and low for few days?

When asking such a question, it is good to explain what sort of thing, 
in this case, 'xmldiff' is and where it is is from. Let us assume you 
meant xmldiff from

http://www.logilab.org/859

It says it is a python tool that can "be used be used as a library or as 
a command line tool." It includes a README file. Have you read that? 
That says "USAGE ... Read the HELP.txt file.". Have you read *that*?
HELP.txt seems to focus on command line usage. I would start with that. 
To use it as a library (via import ...), you might have to look at the 
source code as I did not see importing covered in my quick look at that 
file.

Terry Jan Reedy




From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Feb  3 15:38:19 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:38:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: GMPY 1.11 released
References: <mailman.1782.1265109910.28905.python-announce-list@python.org> 
	<e421f404-f4ea-4ed1-88d1-8dfe58a29cd2@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<bb7ede09-86a9-4c41-a643-309a344e9729@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<3cdf9936-035f-43db-abb0-a7daacac14ab@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<167d472a-9981-4575-b463-a36413ed657e@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <00b3d248-85a3-4cfc-a083-88a405a47e2c@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 12:36?pm, casevh <cas... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:22?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Historically, gmpy really didn't have alpha/beta/rc versions and
> gmpy.version() just had the version "number" and didn't indicate the
> status. If I change it, I'd rather go to "1.1.1rc1" or "1.2.0a0" but
> that might break some applications.

Ok. And historically, we never had Python 2.5, 2.6, 2.7 & 3.1
to support simultaneously with Windows Xp, Vista and 7 along
with Mac OSX 10.4, 10.5,& 10.6 as well as whatever flavors
Linnux comes it.

Not to mention that there's now two flavors of GMP.

How many different permutations do you suppose that is?
Thinking about it makes my head hurt. I certainly fell
sympathy towards you developers.


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Wed Feb  3 15:40:51 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:40:51 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>

Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?


Robert


From drsalists at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:41:43 2010
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:41:43 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
In-Reply-To: <87vdelwitb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<slrnhm3ojr.lqh.jrh@polaris.joshh.co.uk>	<b9c88f31-832d-4810-9032-79b8fc4f6379@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87vdelwitb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4B69DF87.4030207@gmail.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
>   
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:24:28 -0800 (PST), Joan Miller:
>>     
>>> On 28 ene, 19:16, Josh Holland <j... at joshh.co.uk> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Check the docs on os.system().
>>>>         
>>> No. I've a function that uses subprocess to run commands on the same
>>> shell and so substitute to bash scrips. But a script full of run
>>> ("shell_command --with --arguments") is too verbose.
>>>       
>> 	I shall blaspheme, and suggest that maybe the language you want
>> to use is REXX (ooREXX or Regina).
>>     
>
> Heh. That isn't blasphemy, because no true Pythonista [0] would claim
> Python to be the god of that domain.
>
> It's no sin to say that Python isn't a good choice for specific things;
> and ?I want to write programs by indistinguishably mixing statements
> with external system calls? is one of them, IMO
>From 
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~dstromberg/debugging-with-syscall-tracers.html#terminology

    A quick note on terminology: open() is typically a system call.
    fopen is probably never a system call - instead, it is a function in
    the C library that wraps open(), making open() easier to use. Then
    there's the system() function - like fopen(), it isn't really a
    system call, despite its name. Rather, it is a C library function
    that typically will wrap the fork() and exec*() system calls.




From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:44:05 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<87vdeedqv0.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <f422fbad-e984-4fd9-b11d-e34c241dfe4b@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

John Bokma wrote:

> my $x = ( 5, "hello", sub {}, [], {} )[ int rand 5 ];
>
> what's $x? The answer is: it depends.

That's why my blog post advocated (as usual for me) developer tests.
Then you either mock the rand, like all developers should, or you get
what you pay for, and Principle of Least Surprise still applies...

Over the past decade, teams discovered that developer tests more than
made up for the lack of rigor in dynamic languages. A dynamic language
with tests can be more productive than a static language, even with
its runtime type checks AND with its tests.

However, our editors must catch up to us. When I test, I am statically
declaring a set of types, even if the language would prefer to
dynamically fling them hither and yon. We should leverage that.

--
  Phlip


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb  3 15:44:29 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:44:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Logging oddity: handlers mandatory in every single logger?
References: <C4A4D1FF-680F-4DF3-9352-B6E3605B0B14@masklinn.net> 
	<4B685860.4000903@sequans.com>
	<800F564B-83E4-44F2-95F7-16FB1EDE9696@masklinn.net> 
	<4B6954EB.6010004@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1826.1265197019.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0e582f33-718c-4c46-9c14-c07447474634@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 11:36?am, Masklinn <maskl... at masklinn.net> wrote:

Well, Xavier,

I would be the first to agree that the existing logging configuration
API is not ideal. There are a number of reasons for the current
ConfigParser schema used (e.g. an old GUI for configuring logging,
which was there before the logging package was added to Python, but
which was not brought across). However, there is no point in
nitpicking over the particular shortcomings you've focused on, unless
of course you've run out of bikesheds to paint ;-)

Particularly as I've just received the good news from Guido van Rossum
that PEP 391 (Dictionary-Based Configuration For Logging) has been
accepted, and my aim is to get it into Python 2.7 and Python 3.2.

Now, PEP 391 was announced on python-list and python-dev in October
2009, so plenty of people have had an opportunity to comment on it.
Going forwards, and over time, I would hope that this configuration
scheme will supplant the ConfigParser-based approach, and so I don't
think there's much need to tinker with that API.

Onwards, upwards, ever forwards :-)

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb  3 15:50:38 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:50:38 +0100
Subject: exec within function
References: <b811ef761002030030h5c189b12t6db1528d42f1ac3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkckik$lfg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1856.1265228962.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkcni3$cic$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Gerald Britton wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>> On 2/3/2010 3:30 AM, Simon zack wrote:
>>>
>>> hi,
>>> I'm not sure how I can use exec within a function correctly
>>> here is the code i'm using:
>>>
>>> def a():
>>> exec('b=1')
>>> print(b)
>>>
>>> a()
>>>
>>> this will raise an error, but I would like to see it outputting 1
>>
>> Always **copy and paste** **complete error tracebacks** when asking a
>> question like this. (The only exception would be if it is v e r y long,
>> as with hitting the recursion depth limit of 1000.)

> I get no error:
> 
>>>> def a():
> ...  exec('b=1')
> ...  print(b)
> ...
>>>> a()
> 1

My crystal ball says you're using Python 2.x. Try it again, this time in 
3.x:
 
Python 3.1.1+ (r311:74480, Nov  2 2009, 15:45:00)
[GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def f():
...     exec('a = 42')
...     print(a)
...
>>> f()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
NameError: global name 'a' is not defined

OP: Python 2.x generates different bytecode for functions containing an exec 
statement. In 3.x this statement is gone and exec() has become a normal 
function. I suppose you now have to pass a namespace explicitly:


>>> def f():
...     ns = {}
...     exec("a=1", ns)
...     print(ns["a"])
...
>>> f()
1

Peter


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 16:02:33 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:02:33 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<87vdeedqv0.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<f422fbad-e984-4fd9-b11d-e34c241dfe4b@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87iqaedod2.fsf@castleamber.com>

Phlip <phlip2005 at gmail.com> writes:

> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> my $x = ( 5, "hello", sub {}, [], {} )[ int rand 5 ];
>>
>> what's $x? The answer is: it depends.
>
> That's why my blog post advocated (as usual for me) developer tests.
> Then you either mock the rand, like all developers should, or you get
> what you pay for, and Principle of Least Surprise still applies...

Yup, I agree with you that (to some extent) an IDE should be able to
determine types, especially if programmers don't reuse variables, like
(again Perl):

my $result = .... # int
:
:
if ( ... ) {

   $result = .... # string
}

# $result can be still an int, or either a string, depending on the
# test.

> Over the past decade, teams discovered that developer tests more than
> made up for the lack of rigor in dynamic languages. A dynamic language
> with tests can be more productive than a static language, even with
> its runtime type checks AND with its tests.

Yup, this matches up with my experience. I can't recall that I ever
bumped into an issue in Perl (the dynamic language I've been using
the most for the past years). Not saying that it hasn't happened, but I
just can't recall. Probably also the reason why a "new" language I am
learning is also dynamic: Python ;-)

> However, our editors must catch up to us. When I test, I am statically
> declaring a set of types, even if the language would prefer to
> dynamically fling them hither and yon. We should leverage that.

I am all for testing, but it should IMO not get into the way. I am quite
happy with Emacs as an editor (I "recently" switched), it satisfies most
(if not all) of the items on the check list.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From drsalists at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:09:55 2010
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:09:55 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B69E623.4060704@gmail.com>

kj wrote:
> I just spent about 1-1/2 hours tracking down a bug.
>
> An innocuous little script, let's call it buggy.py, only 10 lines
> long, and whose output should have been, at most two lines, was
> quickly dumping tens of megabytes of non-printable characters to
> my screen (aka gobbledygook), and in the process was messing up my
> terminal *royally*.  Here's buggy.py:
>
>
>
> import sys
> import psycopg2
> connection_params = "dbname='%s' user='%s' password='%s'" % tuple(sys.argv[1:])
> conn = psycopg2.connect(connection_params)
> cur = conn.cursor()
> cur.execute('SELECT * FROM version;')
> print '\n'.join(x[-1] for x in cur.fetchall())
>
>
> (Of course, buggy.py is pretty useless; I reduced the original,
> more useful, script to this to help me debug it.)
>
> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.  (This second script
> is one I wrote as part of a little Python tutorial I put together
> months ago, and is not much more of a script than hello_world.py;
> it's baby-steps for the absolute beginner.  But apparently, it has
> a killer name!  I had completely forgotten about it.)
>
> Both scripts live in a directory filled with *hundreds* little
> one-off scripts like the two of them.  I'll call this directory
> myscripts in what follows. 
>
> It turns out that buggy.py imports psycopg2, as you can see, and
> apparently psycopg2 (or something imported by psycopg2) tries to
> import some standard Python module called numbers; instead it ends
> up importing the innocent myscript/numbers.py, resulting in *absolute
> mayhem*.
>
> (This is no mere Python "wart"; this is a suppurating chancre, and
> the fact that it remains unfixed is a neverending source of puzzlement
> for me.)
>
> How can the average Python programmer guard against this sort of
> time-devouring bug in the future (while remaining a Python programmer)?
> The only solution I can think of is to avoid like the plague the
> basenames of all the 200 or so /usr/lib/pythonX.XX/xyz.py{,c} files,
> and *pray* that whatever name one chooses for one's script does
> not suddenly pop up in the appropriate /usr/lib/pythonX.XX directory
> of a future release.
>
> What else can one do?  Let's see, one should put every script in its
> own directory, thereby containing the damage.
>
> Anything else?
>
> Any suggestion would be appreciated.
>
> TIA!
>
> ~k
>   
Here's a pretty simple fix that should work in about any version of 
python available:

Put modules in ~/lib.  Put scripts in ~/bin.  Your modules end with 
.py.  Your scripts don't.  Your scripts add ~/lib to sys.path as 
needed.  Things that go in ~/lib are named carefully.  Things in ~/bin 
also need to be named carefully, but for an entirely different reason - 
if you name something "ls", you may get into trouble.

Then things in ~/lib plainly could cause issues.  Things in ~/bin don't.

Ending everything with .py seems to come from the perl tradition of 
ending everything with .pl.  This perl tradition appears to have come 
from perl advocates wanting everyone to know (by looking at a URL) that 
they are using a perl CGI.  IMO, it's language vanity, and best 
dispensed with - aside from this issue, it also keeps you from rewriting 
your program in another language with an identical interface.

This does, however, appear to be a scary issue from a security 
standpoint.  I certainly hope that scripts running as root don't search 
"." for modules.








From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 16:10:56 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:10:56 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <87eil2dnz3.fsf@castleamber.com>

Robert <no-spam at non-existing.invalid> writes:

> Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
>> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
>> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?

I guess Vladimir means what's called a structure editor. The (by me)
aforementioned Synthesizer Generator is an example of such an editor
(environment).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_editor
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=358746.358755

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:17:42 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:17:42 GMT
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1779.1265099894.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1824.1265194559.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.17.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:55:57 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

[...]
>> Python does most of that for you: it automatically recompiles the
>> source whenever the source code's last modified date stamp is newer
>> than that of the byte code. So to a first approximation you can forget
>> all about the .pyc files and just care about the source.
> 
> True, but the .pyc file is lying around and I always have to do 'ls -al
> | grep -v pyc' in my python source directory.


So alias a one-word name to that :)


[...]
> Here is an example: shared object files. If your code needs them, you
> can use them easily, you can access them easily if you want to, but they
> are not in the directory where you keep your C files. They are somewhere
> in /usr/lib for example, where they are conveniently collected, you can
> inspect them, look at them, distribute them, do basically whatever you
> want, but they are out of the way, and 99% of the time while you develop
> your code, you don't need them. In the 1% of the case you can easily get
> at them in the centralized location, /usr/lib in our example.
> 
> Of course the relationship between C source files and shared objects is
> not parallel to the relationship to python source files and the created
> pyc files, please don't nitpick on this point. The analogy is in the
> sense that your project inevitable needs for whatever reason some binary
> files which are rarely needed at hand, only the
> linker/compiler/interpreter/etc needs to know where they are. These
> files can be stored separately, but at a location where one can inspect
> them if needed (which rarely happens).

I'll try not to nit-pick :)

When an object file is in /usr/lib, you're dealing with it as a user. 
You, or likely someone else, have almost certainly compiled it in a 
different directory and then used make to drop it in place. It's now a 
library, you're a user of that library, and you don't care where the 
object file is so long as your app can find it (until you have a 
conflict, and then you do).

While you are actively developing the library, on the other hand, the 
compiler typically puts the object file in the same directory as the 
source file. (There may be an option to gcc to do otherwise, but surely 
most people don't use it often.) While the library is still being 
actively developed, the last thing you want is for the object file to be 
placed somewhere other than in your working directory. A potentially 
unstable or broken library could end up in /usr/lib and stomp all over a 
working version. Even if it doesn't, it means you have to be flipping 
backwards and forwards between two locations to get anything done.

Python development is much the same, the only(?) differences are that we 
have a lower threshold between "in production" and "in development", and 
that we typically install both the source and the binary instead of just 
the binary.

When you are *using* a library/script/module, you don't care whether 
import uses the .py file or the .pyc, and you don't care where they are, 
so long as they are in your PYTHONPATH (and there are no conflicts). But 
I would argue that while you are *developing* the module, it would more 
nuisance than help to have the .pyc file anywhere other than immediately 
next to the .py file (either in the same directory, or in a clearly named 
sub-directory).



-- 
Steven


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:24:30 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:24:30 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002031324n3901ae3bod60f3cdbe40e8cad@mail.gmail.com>

> can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?

Sorry, I don't have anything written down. I just have some rough idea
of implementation and some concrete features I would like to see in
such system.  For example:

1) Instant refactoring. No more needs for manual
search/inspect/rename. Since system knows exactly that is going on,
the refactoring will be fully automatic.
2) Show "xref table" for each function. How often this function used?
Where is it used? (code snippets of calls) What functionality is
supported by this function?
3) Extended statistics. How many objects this object/function
interacts with? Popular functions, dead/unused functions.
4) Code smell detector - too long functions, too much interaction with
other objects, global objects, etc.
...

Vladimir Ignatov


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:27:48 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:27:48 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <hkcpok$ccq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 14:40 PM, Robert wrote:
> Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
>> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
>> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
>> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.
>
> can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?

I believe that Smalltalk came pretty close to what Vladimir is asking for. You 
wrote the methods as linear plain text, but you used the GUI three pane class 
browser to define and navigate classes. You could export class definitions to a 
text file and read them back in, but in Vladimir's terms, the text files were 
not the "source material" themselves.

   http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/wolfgang.kreutzer/cosc205/smalltalk1.html

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb  3 16:32:18 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 13:32:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 9:11?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
> > to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
>
> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
> a statement like this.
>

I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
all of Python in an hour.

Coming from perl to python, the big "aha!" moment was when I realized
there wasn't anything more than what I saw before me. I kept expecting
something big around the corner, kind of like when I first discovered
refs in perl, or when I realized how hard it truly was to write OO
code in perl that actually does what you think it should do.

Perl has trained me to be fearful of the language, constantly on the
lookout for jabberwockies. If you fall into one of those traps in
perl, it's because you weren't smart enough and aren't worthy of the
language, or so they say. It's never perl's fault. I mean, doesn't
everyone know what the Schwartzian Transform is?

Python is the complete opposite. Go through http://docs.python.org/reference/
. Once you've familiarized yourself with all the operators,
statements, and the special methods, you're done with syntax and the
core language. There is no more.

The next step is to learn the basic objects and functions in builtins.
That's in the first seven chapters of http://docs.python.org/library/index.html.
You can always fall back to the "help" function to remind yourself if
you forget. I do it all the time.

After that, it's merely figuring out which standard libraries do what
and how. The documentation there is complete and awesome, and there
are more than enough people willing to point you in the right
direction here.

There are no dragons in this forest. Heck, this isn't even a forest---
it's a single-room apartment with everything you need right there
where you can see it. The thermostat is set to room temperature, and
no matter what happens outside, you're safe and protected from it all.



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:36:05 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:36:05 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <87eil2dnz3.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net> <87eil2dnz3.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002031336m22f9b089h9eba5d3490c169a1@mail.gmail.com>

> I guess Vladimir means what's called a structure editor. The (by me)
> aforementioned Synthesizer Generator is an example of such an editor
> (environment).

Maybe. Yes, it kind of "generator". It has (entered somehow) internal
representation of target program. Then it generates code out of this
internal data. Yes, it is imaginable system, I don't have any working
prototype yet. But about to start making it. For prototype I choose
python 2.x as implementation language, sqlite as internal database and
Django as UI.

Vladimir Ignatov


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:37:55 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:37:55 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:18:40 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 14:10 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
>> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
>> and love it a much.
>> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
>> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
>> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
>> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.
> 
> Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
> to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
> 
> class.method(sting name, int count)
> 
> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
> 
> class.method(name, count)


Obviously? I don't know about that. Being told that "count" is an int 
doesn't really help me -- it's obvious just from the name. In a well-
written API, what else could it be?

And surely count should be positive or zero but not negative? Saying it's 
an int is misleading. Or perhaps count can be negative, in which case 
maybe negative counts have some special meaning that isn't obvious from 
the function signature. Can I pass None to get the default behaviour? 
Either way, I need to read the docs, so the supposed added expressiveness 
doesn't actually add much.

And why is count limited to an actual int type, rather than anything 
which is integer-like? Why can't I pass 3.0 or Decimal(3)? If you have a 
good reason for that limitation, great, but if it's just there to satisfy 
the compiler, then boo hiss to you.

I cheerfully admit that *sometimes* there are type restrictions which 
make sense, and of course we know that there are sometimes useful 
performance gains to be made with static typing. Any compiler which 
requires types to be declared is far too 1970s though -- a good modern 
static language should use type inference to reduce the number of 
declarations needed.

As for Pythonistas refusing to accept this, how do you explain function 
annotations then?

Quoting Guido:

"Optional static typing has long been requested as a Python feature."

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=85551


More on function annotations and type inference for Python:

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1519
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/

http://www.python.org/workshops/2000-01/proceedings/papers/aycock/aycock.html



> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"

The answer is usually "both, and anything else that obeys some subset of 
the sequence or iterable protocols".





-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:40:53 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:40:53 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:42:52 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> One nice trick with static types is if you change
> what the method does (even if its type signature doesn't change), you
> can rename the method:
> 
>    class.method2(string name, int count):  # change 'method' to
>    'method2'
> 
> and recompile your codebase.  Every place in the code that called
> 'method' now gets a compile time "undefined method" error that you can
> examine to see if you need to update it.  This is something you can't
> catch with unit tests because the call sites can be in distant modules.


I don't understand why that won't work with unit tests. If you change the 
name of a method, surely your unit tests will now start failing with 
AttributeError?




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:42:26 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:42:26 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:48:12 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:


> Imagine simple operation like "method renaming" in a simple "dumb"
> environment like text editor + grep. Now imagine how simple it can be if
> system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates relevant
> portions of text from internal database-alike representation.

Something like Bicycle Repair Man then: 

http://bicyclerepair.sourceforge.net/



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 16:43:26 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 21:43:26 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<3dfd60f21002030723q393089e9kcfdec36fc2881b29@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1835.1265211648.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.21.43.22@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:39:53 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 16:23 +0100, Stef Mientki wrote:
>>         Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas
>>         to confess
>>         to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
>>         expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>>         class.method(sting name, int count)
>>         - is *obviously* more expressive than - class.method(name,
>>         count)
>>         Oh, well.
>>         This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where
>>         one
>>         frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed
>>         to be...
>>         a string... a list... ?"
> 
>> But I thought that was the one of beauties of Python, you don't need to
>> know if the input parameter is a list or a string.
> 
> You don't need to know; unless of course you want the expected result.


Says who? If you're free to assume the function requires a certain type, 
we're free to assume the function is polymorphic and doesn't.




-- 
Steven


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 16:45:57 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:45:57 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b69ee95$0$10078$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Tim Golden wrote:
> 
>> Anyway, you have in mind that respect to speed:
>>
>> shared memory>  named pipes>  Unix domain socket>  TCP socket
> 
> True, but the OP didn't mention speed; rather simplicity. Not
> saying it isn't a consideration but premature optimisation and
> all that...
> 

Yes true. I'm looking for something simple, platform agnostic. Lateron I
can always improve performance.

Perhaps I'll stick initially with xmlrpc, as it is quite simple, though
a little heavy.
I just have to see how to deal with servers which are not up, no more
up, being restarted.


N


From soltys at noabuse.net  Wed Feb  3 16:46:11 2010
From: soltys at noabuse.net (soltys)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:46:11 +0100
Subject: PyChecker under python's virtualenv
Message-ID: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl>

Hi Everybody,
I've been doing some test on pythons' virtualenv and recently I've
decided to run PyChecker. But I'm having some difficulties with importing
modules available only on virtualenv by pychecker. As if it was
trying to use systemwide python.
I've googled about it, and found nothing in this area.
I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.

Any help appreciate,
Soltys



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb  3 16:50:44 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:50:44 +1100
Subject: Wrap a function
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<slrnhm3ojr.lqh.jrh@polaris.joshh.co.uk>
	<b9c88f31-832d-4810-9032-79b8fc4f6379@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87vdelwitb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.1859.1265229722.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ock6m1jf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Dan Stromberg <drsalists at gmail.com> writes:

> Ben Finney wrote:
> > It's no sin to say that Python isn't a good choice for specific
> > things; and ?I want to write programs by indistinguishably mixing
> > statements with external system calls? is one of them, IMO

> > From 
> http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~dstromberg/debugging-with-syscall-tracers.html#terminology
>
>    A quick note on terminology: open() is typically a system call.
[?]

That is a different use of ?system call?. I used it in the ?os.system?
sense: meaning ?invoke an external OS command as a child of this
process?.

-- 
 \           ?I was in a bar the other night, hopping from barstool to |
  `\     barstool, trying to get lucky, but there wasn't any gum under |
_o__)                                       any of them.? ?Emo Philips |
Ben Finney


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:50:49 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:50:49 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
> all of Python in an hour.

With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable chance of your 
audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining. It's just 
exposition.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From gb345 at invalid.com  Wed Feb  3 16:51:44 2010
From: gb345 at invalid.com (gb345)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:51:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help w 'Broken pipe' handling
Message-ID: <hkcr5g$kft$1@reader2.panix.com>




Hi!  I'm having a hard time figuring out how to handle a Unix
SIGPIPE exception cleanly.  The following short script illustrates
the problem:

------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python
# sigpipebug.py
import sys
import random
from signal import signal, SIGPIPE, SIGINT

def handle_sigpipe(signo, frame):
    print >> sys.stderr, "caught SIGPIPE (%d)" % signo
    sys.exit(0)

def handle_sigint(signo, frame):
    print >> sys.stderr, "caught SIGINT (%d)" % signo
    sys.exit(1)

def my_excepthook(exc_type, exc_obj, exc_tb):
    print >> sys.stderr, "excepthook called"
    sys.exit(0)

signal(SIGPIPE, handle_sigpipe)
signal(SIGINT, handle_sigint)
# sys.excepthook = my_excepthook

while True:
    try:
        print random.random()
    except IOError as (_, error):
        if error == 'Broken pipe':
            print >> sys.stderr, 'EXCEPTION: %s' % error
            sys.exit(0)
        raise
------------------------------------------------------------------



The problem shows up only occasionally; the following bash one-liner
helps to see the problem (terminate with Ctrl-C):

while [ 1 ]; do (./sigpipebug.py||break) | head -1; done

(The pipe through head should cause the script to receive a PIPE
signal.)

The typical output from the above one-liner will start out as
something like this:

0.666233280308
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.554289690682
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.438033929588
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.969307976257
caught SIGPIPE (13)
close failed in file object destructor:
Error in sys.excepthook:

Original exception was:
0.916260186232
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.798590903019
caught SIGPIPE (13)
0.737496617527

...though the length of the output preceding "close failed..." is
highly variable.

My problem is that I can't figure out how to get rid of this unwanted
extra output:

close failed in file object destructor:
Error in sys.excepthook:

Original exception was:



I figure that the way the script is handling the SIGPIPE is somehow
incorrect, but I don't see what is it that I'm doing wrong (BTW,
I'm a Python noob).  Is there some cleanup method I should invoke
in the sigpipe handler before executing sys.exit(0)?  (BTW, I'm
using sys.exit in this script instead of plain exit to avoid a
strange error of the form "NameError: global name 'exit' is not
defined".)

The same thing happens when I redefine sys.excepthook (by uncommenting
the commented-out line).

Also, is there a way to define the SIGPIPE handler to obviate the
need to trap the IOError exception?  (Without this try block, I
get a traceback when the script receives the PIPE signal.  This
traceback is also unwanted output.)

Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated!

Gabe


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 17:00:42 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:00:42 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xmxzqq8s5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>> and recompile your codebase.  Every place in the code that called
>> 'method' now gets a compile time "undefined method" error that you can
>> examine to see if you need to update it.  This is something you can't
>> catch with unit tests because the call sites can be in distant modules.
>
> I don't understand why that won't work with unit tests. If you change the 
> name of a method, surely your unit tests will now start failing with 
> AttributeError?

Unit tests only test the code in the local module or package ("unit").
Obviously you also need other tests to exercise the interaction between
local and remote modules, but it's harder to be as thorough with those,
or write them as reflexively, in part because they're often written
by a separate group of programmers.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 17:01:52 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:01:52 -0800
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b69ee95$0$10078$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xiqaeq8q7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

News123 <news123 at free.fr> writes:
> Perhaps I'll stick initially with xmlrpc, as it is quite simple,
> though a little heavy.  I just have to see how to deal with servers
> which are not up, no more up, being restarted.

Something wrong wtih nagios?


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 17:02:32 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:02:32 +0100
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1854.1265227770.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<9217d055-c06e-4aea-ae8a-4421827eebbb@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>	<6a7b9ce0-b6ad-491c-8025-cb22c6113b45@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1823.1265194470.28905.python-list@python.org>	<6b65c778-f905-4eb6-b077-523fbea8e22c@f11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1854.1265227770.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b69f278$0$25781$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Terry,

Terry Reedy wrote:

> 
> That aside, I would wonder whether you could use a master process with a
> gui to haphazardly launch subprocess, so as to avail oneself of
> multiprocessing.Queue.
> 
T

This is also an option I'm looking.

insted of the python scripts, thet users would normally click at I had
to implement small sripts, that just communicate with the master
process, which would then launch the application.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 17:04:31 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:04:31 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 19:11, schrieb John Bokma:
> Alan Harris-Reid<alan at baselinedata.co.uk>  writes:
>
>> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
>> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
>> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
>> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
>> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
>> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>
> You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
> records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
> should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying information.

You should *never* say never, because there might be situations where 
exceptions from rules are valid. This is one such cases. Making this a 
post means that you need to resort to javascript to populate & submit a 
hidden HTML-form. Just for the sake of a POST.

And there are people who say "you should *never* write web-apps that 
only work with enabled javascript"... catch 22.

Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a 
tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this 
less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.

Diez



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 17:09:07 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:09:07 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.

GET parameters also tend to get recorded in the http logs of web proxies
and web servers while POST parameters usually aren't.  This was an
annoyance in a web chat package I fooled with for a while.  Because the
package sent user messages by GET, if I ran the software the way the
developers set it up, the contents of all the user conversations stayed
in my server logs.  I was unable to convince the chat package
maintainers that this was a bug.  I ended up doing some fairly kludgy
hack to prevent the logging.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 17:10:19 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:10:19 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7suaicFp81U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 19:01, schrieb Alan Harris-Reid:
> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page. The
> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>
> Is there another way of passing a record-id to a method
> a) without it appearing in the URL?

You can populate an invisible HTML-form with the values, and submit that 
- of course you need javascript for this.

But this doesn't increase security a bit. Using an extension to FF such 
as HTTP live headers, it's easy enough to figure out what parameters are 
passed, and simply forge a request.


> b) without the user being able to fathom-out how to attach which id to
> which URL?

Paul already mentioned that - you can create a server-side, 
session-stored action-item that is identified by a hash of some sort. 
Then use that hash as parameter.

But I'd say you should instead make sure that your serve actions perform 
authorization checking before performing any operations. Then you don't 
need to worry - even guessing a hash argument won't work then.

>
> As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone
> from getting the id from the page source-code. Is it safe to use the
> above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password
> stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the edit/delete
> action?

You should of course always do that. Every http-action except login 
should be guarded (unless you allow anonymous access of course).

Diez


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 17:12:31 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 03 Feb 2010 22:12:31 GMT
Subject: [Off topic] Radian language
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.03.22.12.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

For those interested in language design, the former head of RealBasic's 
development team, and current "compiler architect guy" for Microsoft's 
VisualBasic team, Mars Saxman, is developing an interesting programming 
language, Radian:

"The goal of the Radian project is to provide the concurrency benefits 
of a pure functional language inside the syntax and conceptual style 
of a high-level imperative language. This suggests two questions: 
what is it about a pure functional language that makes it useful for 
developing concurrent software, and what is it about an imperative 
syntax that makes the marriage of these two divergent linguistic 
styles worth the effort?"

Radian is heavily (but not uniquely) influenced by Python, although 
sometimes that influence is "what not to do".

http://www.radian-lang.org/



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 17:21:50 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:21:50 +0100
Subject: PyChecker under python's virtualenv
In-Reply-To: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl>
References: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl>
Message-ID: <7sub7uFstoU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 22:46, schrieb soltys:
> Hi Everybody,
> I've been doing some test on pythons' virtualenv and recently I've
> decided to run PyChecker. But I'm having some difficulties with importing
> modules available only on virtualenv by pychecker. As if it was
> trying to use systemwide python.
> I've googled about it, and found nothing in this area.
> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.

I doubt that it uses the "correct python", because then you wouldn't 
have the problems you have.

I don't use pychecker, but pylint. And there, the system-wide command 
uses the system's python - which of course doesn't know anything about 
virtualenv.

There are two solutions to this problem:

  - install py(lint|checker) into your virtualenv.
  - write a wrapper-script that invokes py(lint|checker) with an adapted 
PYTHONPATH environtment variable, based on the venv's sys.path. I do 
that for my epylint-wrapper for emacs. Works flawlessly.


Diez


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 17:24:05 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:24:05 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net> <87eil2dnz3.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.1863.1265232969.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871vh2dkl6.fsf@castleamber.com>

Vladimir Ignatov <kmisoft at gmail.com> writes:

>> I guess Vladimir means what's called a structure editor. The (by me)
>> aforementioned Synthesizer Generator is an example of such an editor
>> (environment).
>
> Maybe. Yes, it kind of "generator". It has (entered somehow) internal
> representation of target program. Then it generates code out of this
> internal data. Yes, it is imaginable system, I don't have any working
> prototype yet. But about to start making it. For prototype I choose
> python 2.x as implementation language, sqlite as internal database and
> Django as UI.

You might check out articles that mention the Synthesizer Generator, etc.
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cis?q=synthesizer+generator&cs=1
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cis?q=structure+editor&cs=1

The idea is not new (at least 30 years old), and those articles might
help you.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 17:24:50 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:24:50 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <hkct3h$oht$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 8:18 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> class.method(sting name, int count)
>
> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>
> class.method(name, count)

So write

class.method(name:str, count:int)->return_type # 3.x

if you really prefer.

In spite of you disparagement of 'pythonistas', it seems that the head 
pythonista *did* admit that some people, at least, would prefer such 
annotations.

3.0 also added abstract base classes so one can better specify object 
classes without losing duck-typing.

import numbers
class.method(name:str, count:numbers.Integral)->return_type

Now one is documenting that count should be an integral value that acts 
like an integer even if it is not an int per se. Of course, this is too 
broad as it allows (presumably invalid) negative values.

Terry Jan Reedy





From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:24:59 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:24:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<roy-5D23A5.22153201022010@news.panix.com> 
	<hk9emc$qqc$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.16.59.33.656000@nowhere.com> 
	<deb07bff-e9ef-4384-a206-c5aad551ef85@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.03.16.53.03.578000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <6025a408-182b-4ab7-8ad6-7a7305879b4e@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 8:55?am, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:38:53 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> >> I don't know if that's necessary. Only supporting the "foo.h" case would
> >> work fine if Python behaved like gcc, i.e. if the "current directory"
> >> referred to the directory contain the file performing the import rather
> >> than in the process' CWD.
>
> >> As it stands, imports are dynamically scoped, when they should be
> >> lexically scoped.
>
> > Mostly incorrect. ?The CWD is in sys.path only for interactive
> > sessions, and when started with -c switch. ?When running scripts, the
> > directory where the script is located is used instead, not the
> > process's working directory.
>
> Okay, so s/CWD/directory containing __main__ script/, but the general
> argument still holds.
>
> > So, no, it isn't anything like dynamic scoping.
>
> That's what it looks like to me. The way that an import name is resolved
> depends upon the run-time context in which the import occurs.

Well it has one superficial similarity to dynamic binding, but that's
pretty much it.

When the directory containing __main__ script is in the path, it
doesn't matter if you invoke it from a different directory or os.chdir
() during the program, the same modules get imported.  I.e., there's
nothing dynamic at all about which modules are used.  (Unless you
fiddle with the path but that's another question.)

All I'm saying is the analogy is bad.  A better analogy would be if
you have lexical binding, but you automatically look in various sister
scope before your own scope.


Carl Banks


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:27:43 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:27:43 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkct91$p48$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 15:40 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:42:52 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> One nice trick with static types is if you change
>> what the method does (even if its type signature doesn't change), you
>> can rename the method:
>>
>>     class.method2(string name, int count):  # change 'method' to
>>     'method2'
>>
>> and recompile your codebase.  Every place in the code that called
>> 'method' now gets a compile time "undefined method" error that you can
>> examine to see if you need to update it.  This is something you can't
>> catch with unit tests because the call sites can be in distant modules.
>
> I don't understand why that won't work with unit tests. If you change the
> name of a method, surely your unit tests will now start failing with
> AttributeError?

Let's say we have class "A" with a method named "foo" that we change to "bar". 
We have another class "B" with a method that accepts and A() instance and calls 
the .foo() method on it. It is perfectly reasonable (and often necessary) for 
the unit test of class B to use a mock object instead of a real A() instance. 
The unit test for class B will fail to catch the renaming of A.foo() to A.bar() 
because it never tries to call .foo() on a real A instance.

Of course, in a static language, it's much harder to make mock objects to do 
this kind of (very useful!) testing to begin with.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:28:14 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:28:14 +0100
Subject: PEP 3147 - new .pyc format
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.21.17.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <5e9e2096-3bd0-4873-8b99-7ce7f1c5fc97@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1717.1265019285.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0376df33$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1744.1265055597.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.02.00.48.59@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1779.1265099894.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.42.17@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1824.1265194559.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.17.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002031428l7d8e4b0ch5cb9d3342785ab3d@mail.gmail.com>

>>> Python does most of that for you: it automatically recompiles the
>>> source whenever the source code's last modified date stamp is newer
>>> than that of the byte code. So to a first approximation you can forget
>>> all about the .pyc files and just care about the source.
>>
>> True, but the .pyc file is lying around and I always have to do 'ls -al
>> | grep -v pyc' in my python source directory.
>
>
> So alias a one-word name to that :)
>
>
> [...]
>> Here is an example: shared object files. If your code needs them, you
>> can use them easily, you can access them easily if you want to, but they
>> are not in the directory where you keep your C files. They are somewhere
>> in /usr/lib for example, where they are conveniently collected, you can
>> inspect them, look at them, distribute them, do basically whatever you
>> want, but they are out of the way, and 99% of the time while you develop
>> your code, you don't need them. In the 1% of the case you can easily get
>> at them in the centralized location, /usr/lib in our example.
>>
>> Of course the relationship between C source files and shared objects is
>> not parallel to the relationship to python source files and the created
>> pyc files, please don't nitpick on this point. The analogy is in the
>> sense that your project inevitable needs for whatever reason some binary
>> files which are rarely needed at hand, only the
>> linker/compiler/interpreter/etc needs to know where they are. These
>> files can be stored separately, but at a location where one can inspect
>> them if needed (which rarely happens).
>
> I'll try not to nit-pick :)
>
> When an object file is in /usr/lib, you're dealing with it as a user.
> You, or likely someone else, have almost certainly compiled it in a
> different directory and then used make to drop it in place. It's now a
> library, you're a user of that library, and you don't care where the
> object file is so long as your app can find it (until you have a
> conflict, and then you do).
>
> While you are actively developing the library, on the other hand, the
> compiler typically puts the object file in the same directory as the
> source file. (There may be an option to gcc to do otherwise, but surely
> most people don't use it often.) While the library is still being
> actively developed, the last thing you want is for the object file to be
> placed somewhere other than in your working directory. A potentially
> unstable or broken library could end up in /usr/lib and stomp all over a
> working version. Even if it doesn't, it means you have to be flipping
> backwards and forwards between two locations to get anything done.
>
> Python development is much the same, the only(?) differences are that we
> have a lower threshold between "in production" and "in development", and
> that we typically install both the source and the binary instead of just
> the binary.
>
> When you are *using* a library/script/module, you don't care whether
> import uses the .py file or the .pyc, and you don't care where they are,
> so long as they are in your PYTHONPATH (and there are no conflicts). But
> I would argue that while you are *developing* the module, it would more
> nuisance than help to have the .pyc file anywhere other than immediately
> next to the .py file (either in the same directory, or in a clearly named
> sub-directory).

Okay, I think we got to a point where it's more about rationalizing
gut feelings than factual stuff. But that's okay,
system/language/architecure design is often times more about gut
feelings than facts so nothing to be too surprised about :)

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 17:31:39 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:31:39 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 23:09, schrieb Paul Rubin:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
>> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
>> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.
>
> GET parameters also tend to get recorded in the http logs of web proxies
> and web servers while POST parameters usually aren't.  This was an
> annoyance in a web chat package I fooled with for a while.  Because the
> package sent user messages by GET, if I ran the software the way the
> developers set it up, the contents of all the user conversations stayed
> in my server logs.  I was unable to convince the chat package
> maintainers that this was a bug.  I ended up doing some fairly kludgy
> hack to prevent the logging.

If somebody happens to have access to a proxy & it's logs, he can as 
well log the request body.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to propagate the use of GET as one and 
only method for parameter passing. But whatever is transmitted clear 
text over the wire is subject to inspection of all hops in between. Use 
SSL if you bother.

Diez


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:34:13 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<7a9c25c21002011850jd60a3f0i7f20f713d9f6b4e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1772.1265081602.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<68cee5b6-3ed9-416d-a3d6-39b3f5fb28d7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1780.1265107760.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<bf8dd639-a12d-4aaa-b894-d3178fa5e818@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1796.1265137681.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f8014518-28a0-4c22-bd4f-8584aedaad25@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.01.49.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<8104faf3-c4ea-4b1f-8316-f8b17f53554b@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.04.52.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <222d372b-5e43-48a5-835c-4086a992ba78@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 8:52?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:55:15 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> > On Feb 2, 5:49?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:26:16 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> >> > I did not propose obvious module names. ?I said obvious names like
> >> > email.py are bad; more descriptive names like send_email.py are
> >> > better.
>
> >> But surely send_email.py doesn't just send email, it parses email and
> >> receives email as well?
>
> > No, it doesn't.
>
> Nevertheless, as a general principle, modules will tend to be multi-
> purpose and/or generic.

Uh, no?

If your module is a library with a public API, then you might
defensibly have a "generic and/or multi-purpose module", but if that's
the case you should have already christened it something unique.

Otherwise modules should stick to a single purpose that can be
summarized in a short action word or phrase.


Carl Banks


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 17:35:39 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:35:39 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> If somebody happens to have access to a proxy & it's logs, he can as
> well log the request body.

I'm not talking about a malicious server operator.  In this situation, I
was the server operator and I didn't want to be recording the
conversations.  I had to go out of my way to stop the recording.  SSL
doesn't help and in fact I was using it, but web server logging happens
after the SSL layer.  I suppose SSL would help against a malicious
proxy.

Many people back in those days (before AJAX became a buzzword du jour)
wanted to do encryption on the client in java or javascript, but that
was almost unworkably kludgy, and SSL was the only approach that made
any sense.  It might be easier now that the javascript API's are richer
and the interpreters are faster.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:38:21 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:38:21 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkctst$r62$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 15:37 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:18:40 -0500, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 14:10 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I
>>> use Python since 2003 both "professionally" and for my hobby projects
>>> and love it a much.
>>> I notice however, that "maintaining" existing/older python code is may
>>> be not so enjoyable task. It may be even harder than supporting old
>>> code written in some type of "static" languages (like Java or C++).
>>> Surely "dynamic" nature of python comes with price.
>>
>> Yes, it certainly does.  Not that you'll get many Pythonistas to confess
>> to that fact.  Somehow those who brag about the readability and
>> expressiveness of source code just cannot admit that:
>>
>> class.method(sting name, int count)
>>
>> - is *obviously* more expressive than -
>>
>> class.method(name, count)
>
> Obviously? I don't know about that. Being told that "count" is an int
> doesn't really help me -- it's obvious just from the name. In a well-
> written API, what else could it be?

A bool. As in telling the method whether or not it should count something.

That said, I agree with your later point that this kind of information is better 
provided by the docstring, not the call signature. Not least because the "type" 
may be something wishy-washy and ad-hoc like "sequence" or "string or list of 
strings". I do wish that people would document their parameters with this 
information a little more consistently, though.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:47:52 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:47:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
Message-ID: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Pythonistas:

Yes, calling os.path.walk() and os.path.join() all the time on raw
strings is fun, but I seem to recall from my Ruby days a class called
Pathname, which presented an object that behaved like a string at
need, and like a filesystem path at need. path + 'folder' would
call .join() and insert the / correctly, for example.

What's the best equivalent in Python-land?

--
  Phlip


From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  3 17:54:57 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:54:57 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article 
<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac at f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
 Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> 
> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
> all of Python in an hour.
> 
> Coming from perl to python, the big "aha!" moment was when I realized
> there wasn't anything more than what I saw before me. I kept expecting
> something big around the corner, kind of like when I first discovered
> refs in perl, or when I realized how hard it truly was to write OO
> code in perl that actually does what you think it should do.
> 
> Perl has trained me to be fearful of the language, constantly on the
> lookout for jabberwockies. If you fall into one of those traps in
> perl, it's because you weren't smart enough and aren't worthy of the
> language, or so they say. It's never perl's fault. I mean, doesn't
> everyone know what the Schwartzian Transform is?
> 
> Python is the complete opposite. Go through http://docs.python.org/reference/
> . Once you've familiarized yourself with all the operators,
> statements, and the special methods, you're done with syntax and the
> core language. There is no more.
> 
> The next step is to learn the basic objects and functions in builtins.
> That's in the first seven chapters of 
> http://docs.python.org/library/index.html.
> You can always fall back to the "help" function to remind yourself if
> you forget. I do it all the time.
> 
> After that, it's merely figuring out which standard libraries do what
> and how. The documentation there is complete and awesome, and there
> are more than enough people willing to point you in the right
> direction here.
> 
> There are no dragons in this forest. Heck, this isn't even a forest---
> it's a single-room apartment with everything you need right there
> where you can see it. The thermostat is set to room temperature, and
> no matter what happens outside, you're safe and protected from it all.


That's a pretty accurate description of how I transitioned to Python 
from C and Fortran.  I kept trying to think of how to output data and 
parameter variables of different types to files for later reading in.  
How to format them all consistently and then get them back in with the 
exact same accuracy.  I was stuck in printf and scanf land.  Then after 
much noodling around and reading it hit me that I could just put all 
that output of different types of variables into a list, hit it with a 
repr() function to get a string version, and write the string to a file 
-- no formatting necessary-- three lines of code. Later reading in the 
string version (no formatting necessary), and hitting it with an eval() 
function returned all the values I originally had in those variables.  
How simple, but beautiful.  I was making it harder when Python was 
making it easier.  Trained on the wrong language.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From bblais at bryant.edu  Wed Feb  3 17:57:55 2010
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:57:55 -0500
Subject: mouse input in turtle module
Message-ID: <146C3C50-CA41-4A38-B9F4-4633219B1E99@bryant.edu>

Hello,

I would like to find a way to pause, and get mouse input in the  
turtle module.  Since it is built on tk, I thought perhaps there  
would be an easy way, but I am stumped.  Specifically, I'd like  
something like:

x,y,button=mouse_input() # pause in here until the mouse is clicked  
in the turtle window

I know about the screenclick, where I can define a callback but I  
couldn't rig it to pause until a mouse clicked, even using global  
flags.  Is there an example of this somewhere?  For a bonus, I'd love  
to be able to <esc> out of it, either raising an exception or return  
a button=-1 or something.


thanks,

		Brian Blais

-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
http://bblais.blogspot.com/



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From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 18:03:15 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:03:15 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87wrytdirw.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Feb 2, 9:11?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> > I can explain, in an hour, every single feature of the Python language
>> > to an experienced programmer, all the way up to metaclasses,
>>
>> Either you're a hell of a talker, or I am far, far away from being an
>> experienced programmer. It's advocacy like this, IMO, that keeps people
>> away from a language, because you can't feel nothing but a failure after
>> a statement like this.
>>
>
> I can explain all of Python in an hour;

OK, in that case I would say give it a go. Put it on YouTube, or write a
blog post about it (or post it here). I am sure you will help a lot of
people that way. 

> Coming from perl to python, the big "aha!" moment was when I realized
> there wasn't anything more than what I saw before me. I kept expecting
> something big around the corner, kind of like when I first discovered
> refs in perl, or when I realized how hard it truly was to write OO
> code in perl that actually does what you think it should do.

There are very nice frameworks to help you (e.g. Moose). OO is not that
hard IMO, but I can imagine it's very hard if you don't understand
references sufficiently.

> Perl has trained me to be fearful of the language, constantly on the
> lookout for jabberwockies. If you fall into one of those traps in
> perl, it's because you weren't smart enough and aren't worthy of the
> language, or so they say.

Odd, you gave me the same feeling when you stated you could explain me
all features of Python in an hour.

> It's never perl's fault. I mean, doesn't everyone know what the
> Schwartzian Transform is?

Doesn't everyone know what the big O notation is? I mean, Schwartzian
transform is not unique to Perl, and it strikes me as odd that you think
it is. It's all about understanding that general sort on average is O(n
log n), and hence does O(n log n) comparisons. Which means that if you
do an expensive calculation in a custom compare function or do a lot of
comparisons it might be cheaper to do precalculate the keys
(O(n)). Randal Schwartz was the person who made this idea popular in the
Perl community, hence the Perl community named it after him, but it was
long known before that and used in other languages.

[How to learn Python]
I am fully aware of how to learn a language, I've done so several times
(or many times even). I only disagree with your statement that you can
explain all features of Python to me in an hour. But I love to be wrong
on this, and to stand corrected.

> There are no dragons in this forest. Heck, this isn't even a forest---
> it's a single-room apartment with everything you need right there
> where you can see it. The thermostat is set to room temperature, and
> no matter what happens outside, you're safe and protected from it all.

Why does this sound like some religious speech?

I always say: if there was a really easy to learn programming language,
I would be programming in it. And no, I don't think Python is it. (Nor
Perl for that matter). I do agree that Python /looks/ more simple (and
certainly cleaner, unless you're using regexp a lot) than Perl, and
certainly to some extend Python /is/ simpler. But in my (relatively long
experience) programming boils mostly down to which libraries you know,
and how well you can use them.

Finally, note that simpeler doesn't always make your code more easy to
grasp. There is a reason that human languages are rich and often have
many ways to say something. Programming, after all, is also
communication with other humans (if only with one self).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 18:09:37 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:09:37 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <7x8wb9j4r2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
> after much noodling around and reading it hit me that I could just put
> all that output of different types of variables into a list, hit it
> with a repr() function to get a string version, and write the string
> to a file -- no formatting necessary-- three lines of code. Later
> reading in the string version (no formatting necessary), and hitting
> it with an eval() function returned all the values I originally had in
> those variables.  How simple, but beautiful.

FYI: I do that too sometimes, but in general using repr/eval that way
is poor style and not very reliable.  It's better to use the pickle
module, which is intended for that sort of thing, or the json module
if your datatypes are suitable and you want to follow a semi-standard.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 18:26:17 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:26:17 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 03.02.10 23:35, schrieb Paul Rubin:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>> If somebody happens to have access to a proxy&  it's logs, he can as
>> well log the request body.
>
> I'm not talking about a malicious server operator.  In this situation, I
> was the server operator and I didn't want to be recording the
> conversations.  I had to go out of my way to stop the recording.  SSL
> doesn't help and in fact I was using it, but web server logging happens
> after the SSL layer.  I suppose SSL would help against a malicious
> proxy.

Well, we actually implemented POST-parameter logging (inside the 
WSGI-app), because we *want* all parameters users pass. They end up in 
the application anyway, and aid debugging. Of course we blind sensitive 
parameters such as passwords & creditcard numbers.

Of course only information not gathered is really safe information. But 
every operation that has side-effects is reproducable anyway, and if 
e.g. your chat-app has a history, you can as well log the parameters.

Diez


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb  3 18:31:09 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:31:09 -0500
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
In-Reply-To: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkd0vs$5dh$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/3/2010 1:42 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team, http://saucelabs.com/about/team,
> is hosting two free tutorial open space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.
>
> In the short session, people bringing their laptops should be able to
> record a web session in their browser, convert the recorded activity
> to a Python script, modify the script to accept a number of inputs ,
> and replay the script locally on their laptops.  Once you've learned
> how to fully automate your own browser, submit the same script to the
> Sauce Labs cloud to run the tests in parallel across multiple browsers
> and operating systems, and view the results with instant video
> playback.

A free tutorial is a good way to introduce Suace Lab and its product. I 
visited the site, but one variable I did not address is screen size and 
aspect ratio. When my wife redid her home page last fall, that was more 
of a problem than browser differences.

tjr



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 18:39:48 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:39:48 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkd1g6$6ci$1@ger.gmane.org>

Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> 
>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
>> all of Python in an hour.
> 
> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable chance of
> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
> It's just exposition.
> 
I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't explained it.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 18:39:50 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:39:50 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> Of course only information not gathered is really safe
> information. But every operation that has side-effects is reproducable
> anyway, and if e.g. your chat-app has a history, you can as well log
> the parameters.

No I can't.  The chat-app history would be on the client, not the
server, so I'd have no access to it.  Put another way: as server
operator, I'm like the owner of a coffee shop.  I can't stop patrons
from recording their own conversations with each other, and it's not
even really my business whether they do that.  But it would be
outrageous for the shop owner to record the conversations of patrons.


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  3 19:00:21 2010
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:00:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: expy 0.5.2 released
In-Reply-To: <hkclna$q5p$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <179000.53309.qm@web54207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> >
> > expy is an expressway to extend python.
> >
> > in release 0.5.2, expy now supports custom exceptions,
> besides all built-in ones, and exception handling is made
> easy.
> >
> > for more info, see
> >
> > http://expy.sourceforge.net/
> 
> What Python versions does it work with?
> There is no indication either above or on the sf page.
> 

Thanks for point that out, I will add this to the
document. Currently, it works with Python 2.5, 2.6. 
I haven't tested with Python 2.7 or 3.x 
(for 3.x, need to use the code tool first,
then I am not sure if the C API for 3.x 
has changed much).

BTW, the current version is 0.5.5.

Yingjie 


      


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb  3 19:01:06 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Feb 2010 00:01:06 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:38:21 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

>>> class.method(name, count)
>>
>> Obviously? I don't know about that. Being told that "count" is an int
>> doesn't really help me -- it's obvious just from the name. In a well-
>> written API, what else could it be?
> 
> A bool. As in telling the method whether or not it should count
> something.

Ha ha, good point. I question that this is a well-written API: such flags 
to change the behaviour of a function/method are generally poor design. 
If method behaves differently depending on whether or not you want it to 
count something, then it is usually better design to have two methods, 
one that counts and one that doesn't.

In any case, yes, the weakness of naming conventions is that there are 
always odd-corner cases of natural language. Perhaps `name` is also a 
flag telling the method whether or not to name something.

But then, one can write crappy APIs in any language.



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb  3 19:09:04 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:09:04 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 00:39, schrieb Paul Rubin:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>> Of course only information not gathered is really safe
>> information. But every operation that has side-effects is reproducable
>> anyway, and if e.g. your chat-app has a history, you can as well log
>> the parameters.
>
> No I can't.  The chat-app history would be on the client, not the
> server, so I'd have no access to it.  Put another way: as server
> operator, I'm like the owner of a coffee shop.  I can't stop patrons
> from recording their own conversations with each other, and it's not
> even really my business whether they do that.  But it would be
> outrageous for the shop owner to record the conversations of patrons.

Which is the exact thing that happens when you use an email-provider 
with IMAP. Or google wave. Or groups. Or facebook. Or twitter. Which I 
wouldn't call outrageous.

This discussion moves away from the original question: is there anything 
inherently less secure when using GET vs. POST. There isn't.

Users can forge both kind of requests easy enough, whoever sits in the 
middle can access both, and it's at the discretion of the service 
provider to only save what it needs to. If you don't trust it, don't use it.

Diez


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb  3 19:18:31 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:18:31 +0100
Subject: pychecker and "import my.special.module as mymod" 
Message-ID: <4b6a1257$0$12211$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I'm not really used to structuring modules withn directories, but I
started playing


#####################################
# the commands to reproduce my setup:
#####################################
mkdir -p my/special
touch my/__init__.py my/special/__init__.py
echo 'print "myspecialmod"' > my/special/module.py
echo "import my.special.module as mymod" > tst.py

so I have now following files:
-rw-r--r-- 1     0 2010-02-04 01:05 ./my/__init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1   131 2010-02-04 01:07 ./my/__init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1     0 2010-02-04 01:05 ./my/special/__init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1   139 2010-02-04 01:07 ./my/special/__init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1    21 2010-02-04 01:06 ./my/special/module.py
-rw-r--r-- 1   159 2010-02-04 01:07 ./my/special/module.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1    34 2010-02-04 01:07 ./tst.py

the program tst.py runs as expected:
> $ python tst.py
> myspecialmod



However pychecker gives me two warnings:
> $ pychecker tst.py 
> Processing module tst (tst.py)...
> myspecialmod
> 
> Warnings...
> 
> tst.py:1: Imported module (my.special.module) not used
> tst.py:1: No module attribute (special) found

I understand the first one and this one will not appear in my real code.
However I don't really understand the second one.

So my questions are:
- Is this a real warning or is this 'just' a pychecker problem?
- Can I write my code such, that the warning will not appear?
- Is there a pychecker switch, which would get rid of this warning?


thanks a lot in advance for your answers / suggestions



N










From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 19:35:41 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:35:41 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
>> But it would be outrageous for the shop owner to record the
>> conversations of patrons.
>
> Which is the exact thing that happens when you use an email-provider
> with IMAP. Or google wave. Or groups. Or facebook. Or twitter. Which I
> wouldn't call outrageous.

Those are not comparable.  IMAP is a storage service, and groups,
facebook, and twitter are publishing systems (ok, I've never understood
quite what Google Wave is).  Yes, by definition, your voice mail
provider (like IMAP) has to save recordings of messages people leave
you, but that's a heck of a lot different than your phone carrier
recording your real-time conversations.  Recording live phone
conversations by a third party is called a "wiretap" and doing it
without suitable authorization can get you in a heck of a lot of
trouble.

> This discussion moves away from the original question: is there
> anything inherently less secure when using GET vs. POST. There isn't.

Well, the extra logging of GET parameters is not inherent to the
protocol, but it's an accidental side effect that server ops may have to
watch out for.

> Users can forge both kind of requests easy enough, whoever sits in the
> middle can access both, 

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Obviously if users want to record
their own conversations, then I can't stop them, but that's much
different than a non-participant in the conversation leaving a recorder
running 24/7.  Is that so hard to understand?

Interception from the middle is addressed by SSL, though that relies on
the PKI certificate infrastructure, which while somewhat dubious, is
better than nothing.

> and it's at the discretion of the service provider to only save what
> it needs to.  If you don't trust it, don't use it.

I certainly didn't feel that saving or not saving client conversations
on the server side was up to my discretion.  When I found that the
default server configuration caused conversations to be logged then I
was appalled.

Do you think the phone company has the right to record all your phone
calls if they feel like it (absent something like a law enforcement
investigation)?  What about coffee shops that you visit with your
friends?  It is not up to their discretion.  They have a positive
obligation to not do it.  If you think they are doing it on purpose
without your authorization, you should notify the FBI or your
equivalent, not just "don't use it".  If they find they are doing it
inadvertently, they have to take measures to make it stop.  That is the
situation I found myself in, because of the difference in how servers
treat GET vs.  POST.


From monaghand.david at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 19:39:01 2010
From: monaghand.david at gmail.com (David Monaghan)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:39:01 +0000
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
Message-ID: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>

I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but in
3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
not the one the script is in.

It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
technique, I suppose).

The program fails at:

    try:
        tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
    except IOError:
        <snip>

DaveM


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 19:42:39 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:42:39 -0600
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:

> Am 03.02.10 19:11, schrieb John Bokma:
>> Alan Harris-Reid<alan at baselinedata.co.uk>  writes:
>>
>>> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
>>> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
>>> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
>>> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
>>> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
>>> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>>
>> You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
>> records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
>> should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying information.
>
> You should *never* say never, because there might be situations where
> exceptions from rules are valid. This is one such cases. Making this a
> post means that you need to resort to javascript to populate & submit
> a hidden HTML-form. Just for the sake of a POST.

Make each edit/delete button a submit button and optionally style it.

> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.

Maybe you should think about what happens if someone posts:
<img src="http://example.com/item_delete?id=123"> to a popular forum...

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 19:49:58 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:49:58 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkd5jl$j3q$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-03 18:01 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:38:21 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
>
>>>> class.method(name, count)
>>>
>>> Obviously? I don't know about that. Being told that "count" is an int
>>> doesn't really help me -- it's obvious just from the name. In a well-
>>> written API, what else could it be?
>>
>> A bool. As in telling the method whether or not it should count
>> something.
>
> Ha ha, good point. I question that this is a well-written API: such flags
> to change the behaviour of a function/method are generally poor design.
> If method behaves differently depending on whether or not you want it to
> count something, then it is usually better design to have two methods,
> one that counts and one that doesn't.

I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct quote for 
right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only going to take 
*literal* True or False, then it should be split into two functions. There is a 
use case for a boolean argument like this when you can expect to pass around a 
variable between multiple functions.

Of course, this also might be the private API that the public API (with two 
distinct methods for each case) uses internally in order to avoid code 
duplication. Private APIs need to be documented, too.

> In any case, yes, the weakness of naming conventions is that there are
> always odd-corner cases of natural language. Perhaps `name` is also a
> flag telling the method whether or not to name something.
>
> But then, one can write crappy APIs in any language.

Well, I'm not trying to make Paul's point that other languages are better in 
this regard. I think that type documentation is quite helpful, but requiring 
static type declaration to get that documentation is an undesirable tradeoff for 
most of the code that I want to write. I do think it is worthwhile to recognize 
that the tradeoff does cut the other way, too. It just so happens that Python 
has docstrings and argument annotations to document argument types without the 
burden of static typing.

Not all good, clean APIs are always going to have argument names that clearly 
inform the kind of type it expects. And what an author thinks is obviously 
deducible while writing the API is often quite different from what a new user 
thinks is obvious. There isn't much reason to place that cognitive burden on the 
(many) readers of the code when the (single) author can put in a word or two 
into the docstring (once) to describe what the parameter is expected to be. 
Figuring out how to use an API to solve your real problem is hard enough without 
having your brainpower nickled-and-dimed at every turn.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 19:52:28 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:52:28 -0500
Subject: PyChecker under python's virtualenv
In-Reply-To: <7sub7uFstoU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl> <7sub7uFstoU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hkd5of$inu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Am 03.02.10 22:46, schrieb soltys:
>> Hi Everybody,
>> I've been doing some test on pythons' virtualenv and recently I've
>> decided to run PyChecker. But I'm having some difficulties with importing
>> modules available only on virtualenv by pychecker. As if it was
>> trying to use systemwide python.
>> I've googled about it, and found nothing in this area.
>> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
>> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.
> 
> I doubt that it uses the "correct python", because then you wouldn't
> have the problems you have.
> 
> I don't use pychecker, but pylint. And there, the system-wide command
> uses the system's python - which of course doesn't know anything about
> virtualenv.
> 
> There are two solutions to this problem:
> 
>  - install py(lint|checker) into your virtualenv.

See the OP's original assertion:

>> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
>> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.

Isn't that "installing into his virtualenv"?

regards
 Steve

>  - write a wrapper-script that invokes py(lint|checker) with an adapted
> PYTHONPATH environtment variable, based on the venv's sys.path. I do
> that for my epylint-wrapper for emacs. Works flawlessly.
> 
> 
> Diez


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 19:55:45 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:55:45 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002031324n3901ae3bod60f3cdbe40e8cad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkcn0t$hcb$1@news.albasani.net>
	<c02acca21002031324n3901ae3bod60f3cdbe40e8cad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkd5uk$inu$2@ger.gmane.org>

Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
>> can you sketch an example/use case more concretely?
> 
> Sorry, I don't have anything written down. I just have some rough idea
> of implementation and some concrete features I would like to see in
> such system.  For example:
> 
> 1) Instant refactoring. No more needs for manual
> search/inspect/rename. Since system knows exactly that is going on,
> the refactoring will be fully automatic.

You'll probably want to take a look at "Bicycle Repair Man", which
offers Python refactoring functionality.

> 2) Show "xref table" for each function. How often this function used?
> Where is it used? (code snippets of calls) What functionality is
> supported by this function?

Bear in mind this information can only ever be partial, since functions
are first-class objects and aren't always referred to by their original
name.

> 3) Extended statistics. How many objects this object/function
> interacts with? Popular functions, dead/unused functions.
> 4) Code smell detector - too long functions, too much interaction with
> other objects, global objects, etc.
> ...
> 
Also take a look at pylint and pychecker, which are already built to
perform that kind of check on Python code.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb  3 19:56:10 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:56:10 -0600
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>

Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:

> That's a pretty accurate description of how I transitioned to Python 
> from C and Fortran.

Not C, but C++ (but there are also C implementations): YAML, see:
http://code.google.com/p/yaml-cpp/wiki/HowToParseADocument

I use YAML now and then with Perl for both reading/writing data and for
debugging purposes (YAML is quite human readable, for programmers at least)

Of course there is also YAML support for Python:
http://pyyaml.org/. 

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 20:03:47 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:03:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1dbae543-f4f4-4a79-bcda-58498a9c375d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Adam Tauno Williams <awill... at opengroupware.us> wrote:
> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"

Could you provide an actual example to support this?

The only places I tend to see 'x' as a parameter in the Python library
docs are where it's clearly a number, or the text immediately beneath
it explains exactly what it is.

    random.seed([x])
        Initialize the basic random number generator. Optional
        argument x can be any hashable object.

Everywhere else, the docs seem to declare what the parameters should
be _and_ explains them in the text:

    itertools.combinations(iterable, r)
        Return r length subsequences of elements from
        the input iterable.

If you're finding places in the docs where this isn't the case, I'd
treat them as a documentation bug and report them. If it's not obvious
to you what an iterable is, well, I'm sure you've got a disparaging
term for those of us who do...


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb  3 20:32:31 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Feb 2010 17:32:31 -0800
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
References: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkd83f$dc2$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a at x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Raymond Hettinger  <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>
>For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team,
>http://saucelabs.com/about/team, is hosting two free tutorial open
>space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.

Congrats on the new job!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From icanbob at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 20:40:00 2010
From: icanbob at gmail.com (bobicanprogram)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:40:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: simple and fast platform independent IPC
References: <4b6934ba$0$18396$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b497d3e-32c5-4e4f-b607-fb1b5a51f519@k22g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 3:32 am, News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wondered what IPC library might be best simplest for following task?
>
> I'm having a few python scripts all running on the same host (linux or
> win), which are started manually in random order. (no common parent process)
> Each process might be identified by an integer (1,2,3) or by a symbolic
> name ( 'dad' , 'mom' , 'dog' )
>
> these scripts want to send short messages to each other ( mostly
> integers, max a few bytes, short string), which would be enqueued in
> message queues of the receiving process.
>
> example:
>
> 'dad' wants to tell 'mom': 'cook'
> 'dog' wants to tell 'dad' : 'feedme'
> 'mom' wants to tell 'dad' : 'cookyourself'
>
> the receiver dos not necesarily have to know who sent the message
>
> a message shall be dropped silently if the receiving process is not running
>
> a message shall be reliably delivered if the receiving process is up
>
> xmlrpc seems to be a little heavy for such tasks.
>
> signals don't allow to exchange data
>
> a shared memory message queue would probably a good solution, but
> python's Multiprocessing.Queue  seems to require a common parent process
>
> thanks a lot for any ideas / suggestions
>
> N
>
> N


Have a look at the SIMPL toolkit (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl or
http://www.icanprogram.com/06py/main.html).   It should do everything
you describe at least on the Linux end of the spectrum.   Under the
hood SIMPL uses a shared memory scheme for local message exchange.
SIMPL would be especially effective if you want to move your modules
at some future point onto different nodes.   SIMPL-Python can work
seamlessly on heterogeneous networks provided at least one node is
Linux.

bob


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb  3 20:46:27 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:46:27 +1100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:48:12 +0300, Vladimir Ignatov wrote:
> > [?] system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates
> > relevant portions of text from internal database-alike
> > representation.

You will probably want to learn about ?refactoring? to see if that's
related to what you mean <URL:http://www.refactoring.com/>.

> Something like Bicycle Repair Man then:

Bicycle Repair Man has not shown any development activity since 2004.
Which is a shame, because it's an awesomely appropriate name for what it
does :-)

The niche is now occupied by the Rope library and tools
<URL:http://rope.sourceforge.net/>.

-- 
 \                            ?Holy knit one purl two, Batman!? ?Robin |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb  3 20:51:36 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:51:36 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
> Analysis of each domain is
> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>
>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
> they parse web pages.  

You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
that.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb  3 20:57:18 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:57:18 +1100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265203120.7916.5.camel@linux-m3mt>
	<mailman.1829.1265205119.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7x4olys7mb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.40.53@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1866.1265236089.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fx5hn4ox.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> It is perfectly reasonable (and often necessary) for the unit test of
> class B to use a mock object instead of a real A() instance. The unit
> test for class B will fail to catch the renaming of A.foo() to A.bar()
> because it never tries to call .foo() on a real A instance.

Right, which is one good reason why unit tests are *necessary* but not
*sufficient*. You also need so-called ?integration? tests (make sure
modules work together as expected) and ?system? tests (make sure the
whole running system behaves as expected).

This need for testing is true regardless of whether you're using a
statically-typed or dynamically-typed language, of course. (I hope
no-one here thinks that static typing obviates the need for integration
and system tests in the test suite.)

-- 
 \     ?It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to |
  `\    persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.? ?Carl |
_o__)                                                            Sagan |
Ben Finney


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 21:08:52 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:08:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 8:47?am, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, calling os.path.walk() and os.path.join() all the time on raw
> strings is fun, but I seem to recall from my Ruby days a class called
> Pathname, which presented an object that behaved like a string at
> need, and like a filesystem path at need. path + 'folder' would
> call .join() and insert the / correctly, for example.
>
> What's the best equivalent in Python-land?

It's no longer supported, but the 3rd party 'path' module used to be
the go-to module for this:

>>> from path import path
C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\path.py:32: DeprecationWarning: the md5
module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
  import sys, warnings, os, fnmatch, glob, shutil, codecs, md5
>>> c = path('C:\\')
>>> c.listdir()
[path(u'C:\\AUTOEXEC.BAT'), path(u'C:\\boot.ini'), ...]
>>> (c + 'python26').listdir()
[path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
\python26\\DLLs'), ...]
>>> (c / 'python26').listdir()
[path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
\python26\\DLLs'), ...]

I've hand edited the results for brevity...

The module could do with some TLC to bring it up to date, but warning
aside it still seems to work fine under 2.6.

(From memory, I think the original author gave up when it became clear
it would never be integrated into the standard lib[1], which is a
shame, I think there's scope for a pathtools addition to the lib that
provides this level of convenience...)

There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/

Hope this helps.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 21:17:06 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:17:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<4da2372c-954c-46b8-a6e9-2768bce812f5@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b9735bc7-eed6-4c6e-9368-c6cd690b9b01@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

"Timothy N. Tsvetkov" <timothy.tsvet... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> > Python is much, much cleaner. I don't know how anyone can honestly say
> > Ruby is cleaner than Python.
>
> I developed on both (Python was first) and I think that ruby I
> very clean and maybe cleaner than Python.
>
> And you're wrong with blocks.

You say 'static', and I say 'dynamic'.
You say 'consistent', and I say 'erratic'.
Static! Dynamic!
Consistent! Erratic!
Let's join the right news group.


From mf2286 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 21:33:33 2010
From: mf2286 at gmail.com (mf)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:33:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repeat an exception
Message-ID: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

I'm translating a db from english to spanish with the Google
translator API. The problem is when a TranslationError occurs(usually
because of connection problems). I can
except the first one, but I don't know how to except again. I "solved"
the problem by saving temp db's and then joining them, but it must be
a pythonic way to do it.

Here's a snippet from the code:

english_field = oldDb[i].fieldData[0]           #oldDb is a db filled
with english words
    try:
        spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
lang_from='en')
    except TranslationError:
        spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
lang_from='en')

#Then I save the fields into a new db


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb  3 21:52:14 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:52:14 +0000
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.04.02.52.13.719000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:09:07 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

>> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
>> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
>> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.
> 
> GET parameters also tend to get recorded in the http logs of web proxies
> and web servers while POST parameters usually aren't.

More significantly, they'll appear in the Referer: header for any link the
user follows from the page, so they're visible to anyone who can get a
link to their site onto the page (whether <a href=...>, <img src=...> or
whatever).

Even if this isn't possible at the moment, will you remember to fix it the
first time you allow an off-site link?

You should assume that anything which goes into a GET request is visible
to the entire world. Don't put anything even remotely private in there.




From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb  3 21:56:53 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:56:53 +0100
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* David Monaghan:
> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but in
> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
> not the one the script is in.
> 
> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
> technique, I suppose).
> 
> The program fails at:
> 
>     try:
>         tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>     except IOError:
>         <snip>

The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.

Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the problem.

Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the problem. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb  3 22:00:45 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:00:45 +0100
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* mf:
> I'm translating a db from english to spanish with the Google
> translator API. The problem is when a TranslationError occurs(usually
> because of connection problems). I can
> except the first one, but I don't know how to except again. I "solved"
> the problem by saving temp db's and then joining them, but it must be
> a pythonic way to do it.
> 
> Here's a snippet from the code:
> 
> english_field = oldDb[i].fieldData[0]           #oldDb is a db filled
> with english words

Is this actual code? I may be mistaken, but at least in Python 3.x it seems 
there should be a comma between each 'with' expression. And there should 
certainly be a colon at the end.

It's best to copy and paste real code.

Made-up code can just be misleading for those who'd like to help.


>     try:
>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
> lang_from='en')
>     except TranslationError:
>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
> lang_from='en')
> 
> #Then I save the fields into a new db

Possibly I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but have you thought of using a loop?


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb  3 22:09:02 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:09:02 -0300
Subject: Code snippet: dualmethod descriptor
References: <0373b8b9$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7k1pcbwx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:06:18 -0300, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> escribi?:

> class dualmethod(object):
>     """Descriptor implementing dualmethods (combination
>     class/instance method).
>
>     Returns a method which takes either an instance or a class as
>     the first argument. When called on an instance, the instance is
>     passed as the first argument. When called as a class, the class
>     itself is passed instead.

Seems useful!
Perhaps a better place to post it would be
<http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/>, at least it's easier
to search.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Wed Feb  3 22:14:59 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:14:59 -0500
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002031914u1cb4c714ve7d84dd97b6d89aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> * David Monaghan:
>>
>> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but
>> in
>> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
>> not the one the script is in.
>>
>> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
>> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>> technique, I suppose).
>>
>> The program fails at:
>>
>> ? ?try:
>> ? ? ? ?tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>> ? ?except IOError:
>> ? ? ? ?<snip>
>
> The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.
>
> Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the problem.
>
> Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the
> problem. :-)
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

That is the smallest example the exhibits the problem. It's not an
issue with the Python code, it's an issue with how Windows is running
it. I don't know enough about the way Windows Explorer runs files, but
it seems to be doing the equivalent of
cd C:\Python31
python31.exe C:\full\path\to\script\foo.py

instead of
cd C:\full\path\path\to\script
C:\Python31\python.exe foo.py
which is David expected. This throws off the relative filepath.

The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.

import os.path
#get the absolute path to the current script
abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)

 # get the full path to the directory of the script
directory = os.path.dirname(abs_path)

#get the full path to your file
my_file = os.path.join(directory, "MyFile.xml")


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb  3 22:17:43 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:17:43 +0000
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * mf:
>> I'm translating a db from english to spanish with the Google
>> translator API. The problem is when a TranslationError occurs(usually
>> because of connection problems). I can
>> except the first one, but I don't know how to except again. I "solved"
>> the problem by saving temp db's and then joining them, but it must be
>> a pythonic way to do it.
>>
>> Here's a snippet from the code:
>>
>> english_field = oldDb[i].fieldData[0]           #oldDb is a db filled
>> with english words
> 
> Is this actual code? I may be mistaken, but at least in Python 3.x it 
> seems there should be a comma between each 'with' expression. And there 
> should certainly be a colon at the end.
> 
> It's best to copy and paste real code.
> 
> Made-up code can just be misleading for those who'd like to help.
> 
It looks to me like the line wrapped during posting, ie the 'with' part 
belongs to the comment.

> 
>>     try:
>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
>> lang_from='en')
>>     except TranslationError:
>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
>> lang_from='en')
>>
>> #Then I save the fields into a new db
> 
> Possibly I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but have you thought of 
> using a loop?
> 
In other words:

for attempt in range(2):
     try:
         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es', 
lang_from='en')
         break
     except TranslationError:
         pass
else:
     # Didn't break out of the loop, therefore not successful.
     print "Translation failed"


From michael.gruenstaeudl at mail.utexas.edu  Wed Feb  3 22:33:08 2010
From: michael.gruenstaeudl at mail.utexas.edu (Michael Gruenstaeudl)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:33:08 -0600
Subject: Refreshing of urllib.urlopen()
Message-ID: <20100203213308.sk3w3fz0g0g804gc@webmail.utexas.edu>

Hi,
I am fairly new to Python and need advice on the urllib.urlopen()  
function. The website I am trying to open automatically refreshes  
after 5 seconds and remains stable thereafter. With  
urllib.urlopen().read() I can only read the initial but not the  
refreshed page. How can I access the refreshed page via  
urlopen().read()? I have already tried to intermediate with  
time.sleep() before invoking .read() (see below), but this does not  
work.

page=urllib.urlopen(url)
time.sleep(20)
htmltext=page.readlines()

Thanks,
Michael G.









From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb  3 22:44:00 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:44:00 +0100
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1878.1265253469.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1878.1265253469.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkdfq2$9aj$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* MRAB:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * mf:
>>> I'm translating a db from english to spanish with the Google
>>> translator API. The problem is when a TranslationError occurs(usually
>>> because of connection problems). I can
>>> except the first one, but I don't know how to except again. I "solved"
>>> the problem by saving temp db's and then joining them, but it must be
>>> a pythonic way to do it.
>>>
>>> Here's a snippet from the code:
>>>
>>> english_field = oldDb[i].fieldData[0]           #oldDb is a db filled
>>> with english words
>>
>> Is this actual code? I may be mistaken, but at least in Python 3.x it 
>> seems there should be a comma between each 'with' expression. And 
>> there should certainly be a colon at the end.
>>
>> It's best to copy and paste real code.
>>
>> Made-up code can just be misleading for those who'd like to help.
>>
> It looks to me like the line wrapped during posting, ie the 'with' part 
> belongs to the comment.

*banging me head*

thx

What one gets from conditioning oneself to ignore comments in code.


>>>     try:
>>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
>>> lang_from='en')
>>>     except TranslationError:
>>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es',
>>> lang_from='en')
>>>
>>> #Then I save the fields into a new db
>>
>> Possibly I'm misunderstanding what you mean, but have you thought of 
>> using a loop?
>>
> In other words:
> 
> for attempt in range(2):
>     try:
>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es', 
> lang_from='en')
>         break
>     except TranslationError:
>         pass
> else:
>     # Didn't break out of the loop, therefore not successful.
>     print "Translation failed"

Cheers,

- Alf


From nagle at animats.com  Wed Feb  3 22:46:43 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:46:43 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>> Analysis of each domain is
>> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
>> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>>
>>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
>> they parse web pages.  
> 
> You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
> pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
> cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
> know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
> fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
> that.

    I already use separate processes for different domains.  I could
live with Python's GIL as long as moving to a multicore server
doesn't make performance worse.  That's why I asked about CPU dedication
for each process, to avoid thrashing at the GIL.

    There's enough intercommunication between the threads working on
a single site that it's a pain to do them as subprocesses. And I
definitely don't want to launch subprocesses for each page; the
Python load time would be worse than the actual work.  The
subprocess module assumes you're willing to launch a subprocess
for each transaction.

    The current program organization is that there's a scheduler
process which gets requests, prioritizes them, and runs the requested
domains through the site evaluation mill.  The scheduler maintains a
pool of worker processes which get work request via their input pipe, in Pickle
format, and return results, again in Pickle format.  When not in
use, the worker processes sit there dormant, so there's no Python
launch cost for each transaction.  If a worker process crashes, the
scheduler replaces it with a fresh one, and every few hundred uses,
each worker process is replaced with a fresh copy, in case Python
has a memory leak.   It's a lot like the way
FCGI works.

    Scheduling is managed using an in-memory
table in MySQL, so the load can be spread over a cluster if desired,
with a scheduler process on each machine.

    So I already have a scalable architecture.  The only problem
is excess overhead on multicore CPUs.

				John Nagle


From cmpython at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 22:50:00 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:50:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Background Zones in Pylab Plot
References: <1eaf6046-db41-44b5-8c9e-b7a15e4cf078@30g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5a9e5eaf-2006-4dfe-8498-a544c09a8584@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:49?am, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> I would like to add background zones in pylab plots. Colored sections
> of the background that the curves pass through. Is this possible? My
> google searches don't turn up anything but maybe my search terms
> aren't the right ones.
>
> Thanks

If you look at the matplotlib gallery, I think there may be some
images
that show something like what you want, and then you can look at the
code.  It's here:

http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/gallery.html

HTH,
Che


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 22:50:19 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:50:19 -0500
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <hkdg60$bp0$1@ger.gmane.org>

John Nagle wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>>> Analysis of each domain is
>>> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
>>> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>>>
>>>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
>>> they parse web pages.  
>>
>> You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
>> pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
>> cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
>> know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
>> fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
>> that.
> 
>    I already use separate processes for different domains.  I could
> live with Python's GIL as long as moving to a multicore server
> doesn't make performance worse.  That's why I asked about CPU dedication
> for each process, to avoid thrashing at the GIL.
> 
I believe it's already been said that the GIL thrashing is mostly MacOS
specific. You might also find something in the affinity module

  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/affinity/0.1.0

to ensure that each process in your pool runs on only one processor.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From hidura at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:00:56 2010
From: hidura at gmail.com (Hidura)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:00:56 -0400
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
Message-ID: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>

Good evening list, I have a really big trouble with the imports in the 3.1
version(Notes: In the older 2.64 theres no problems), I have two packages,
the first package Utilities who contains Writer the second package, Writers
contain the module tagmanip(What is imported in the best way inside the
__init__.py of the Writer), when i make  the import inside the writer
everything is ok, but from the Utilities package the errors says:
"ImportError: No module named tagsmanip".
I don't understand why this is happening, if somebody could help me i will
glad to hear any suggestion.


Atte.
-- 
Diego I. Hidalgo D.
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb  3 23:02:35 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:02:35 -0500
Subject: Refreshing of urllib.urlopen()
In-Reply-To: <20100203213308.sk3w3fz0g0g804gc@webmail.utexas.edu>
References: <20100203213308.sk3w3fz0g0g804gc@webmail.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <hkdgt0$df0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Michael Gruenstaeudl wrote:
> Hi,
> I am fairly new to Python and need advice on the urllib.urlopen()
> function. The website I am trying to open automatically refreshes after
> 5 seconds and remains stable thereafter. With urllib.urlopen().read() I
> can only read the initial but not the refreshed page. How can I access
> the refreshed page via urlopen().read()? I have already tried to
> intermediate with time.sleep() before invoking .read() (see below), but
> this does not work.
> 
> page=urllib.urlopen(url)
> time.sleep(20)
> htmltext=page.readlines()
> 
When you say the page "refreshes" every 5 seconds, does it do so by
redirecting the browser to the same address with new content?

I suspect this is the case, because otherwise page.readlines() would not
return because it wouldn't have seen the "end of file" on the incoming
network stream.

You can find this out by examining the page's headers. If

   page.headers['Refresh']

exists and has a value (like "5; url=http://<same url>") then browser
refresh is being used.

If that's so then the only way to access the content is to re-open the
URL and read the updated content.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From kmisoft at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:13:18 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:13:18 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002032013s2ba4fdc6t48e0dbc5a292636d@mail.gmail.com>

>> > [?] system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates
>> > relevant portions of text from internal database-alike
>> > representation.
>
> You will probably want to learn about ?refactoring? to see if that's
> related to what you mean <URL:http://www.refactoring.com/>.

I mean if system actually "understands" your code (instead of try to
figure it out from existing text files with source code), then much
more complex refactoring is possible. My favorite refactoring is
"Replace Method with Method Object". It is hard to imagine "external"
tool that can provide such refactoring for python code.

>> Something like Bicycle Repair Man then:
> Bicycle Repair Man has not shown any development activity since 2004.
> Which is a shame, because it's an awesomely appropriate name for what it
> does :-)

I believe it still live under the hood of PyDev plugin. I use it
almost every day and need to say that it don't provide much more than
simple renaming (which works right in 80% of cases in recent version).


Vladimir Ignatov


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb  3 23:18:38 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:18:38 +0100
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Benjamin Kaplan:
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>> * David Monaghan:
>>> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>>> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>>> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but
>>> in
>>> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
>>> not the one the script is in.
>>>
>>> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
>>> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>>> technique, I suppose).
>>>
>>> The program fails at:
>>>
>>>    try:
>>>        tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>>>    except IOError:
>>>        <snip>
>> The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.
>>
>> Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the problem.
>>
>> Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the
>> problem. :-)
>>
>>
>> Cheers & hth.,
>>
>> - Alf
> 
> That is the smallest example the exhibits the problem.

No, it doesn't seem to exhibit the problem at all. :-)


> It's not an
> issue with the Python code, it's an issue with how Windows is running
> it. I don't know enough about the way Windows Explorer runs files, but
> it seems to be doing the equivalent of
> cd C:\Python31
> python31.exe C:\full\path\to\script\foo.py
> 
> instead of
> cd C:\full\path\path\to\script
> C:\Python31\python.exe foo.py
> which is David expected. This throws off the relative filepath.

No, this is not what happens.

What happens is that when you double-click the script, then __file__ is set to 
the absolute path instead of just the filename, at least on my machine (XP); 
whether the full path or just the filename is passed on the OS level depends, 
however, on the Windows version.

The current directory is always (initially) correct, as the script's directory.


> The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
> relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
> script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
> out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.
> 
> import os.path
> #get the absolute path to the current script
> abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)

According to the docs: "On most platforms, this is equivalent to 
normpath(join(os.getcwd(), path))."

Therefore, if getcwd() is not the script's directory, as you hypothesize above, 
then most likely the result of this code is Not The Path You're Looking For.

However, since the current directory is in fact OK, the above is one way to get 
a sort of canonical (a where-you-know-the-format) representation of __file__.


>  # get the full path to the directory of the script
> directory = os.path.dirname(abs_path)

This is very much likely to yield the same result as calling os.getcwd(); see above.


> #get the full path to your file
> my_file = os.path.join(directory, "MyFile.xml")


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Wed Feb  3 23:41:00 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:41:00 -0500
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002032041o26ed25bfs68daaf143dcb89b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> * Benjamin Kaplan:
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>>
>>> * David Monaghan:
>>>>
>>>> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>>>> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>>>> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but
>>>> in
>>>> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31
>>>> folder,
>>>> not the one the script is in.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the
>>>> behaviour
>>>> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>>>> technique, I suppose).
>>>>
>>>> The program fails at:
>>>>
>>>> ? try:
>>>> ? ? ? tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>>>> ? except IOError:
>>>> ? ? ? <snip>
>>>
>>> The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.
>>>
>>> Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the
>>> problem. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers & hth.,
>>>
>>> - Alf
>>
>> That is the smallest example the exhibits the problem.
>
> No, it doesn't seem to exhibit the problem at all. :-)
>
>
>> It's not an
>> issue with the Python code, it's an issue with how Windows is running
>> it. I don't know enough about the way Windows Explorer runs files, but
>> it seems to be doing the equivalent of
>> cd C:\Python31
>> python31.exe C:\full\path\to\script\foo.py
>>
>> instead of
>> cd C:\full\path\path\to\script
>> C:\Python31\python.exe foo.py
>> which is David expected. This throws off the relative filepath.
>
> No, this is not what happens.
>
> What happens is that when you double-click the script, then __file__ is set
> to the absolute path instead of just the filename, at least on my machine
> (XP); whether the full path or just the filename is passed on the OS level
> depends, however, on the Windows version.
>
> The current directory is always (initially) correct, as the script's
> directory.
>

Read my first paragraph again- it has absolutely nothing to do with
Python. It has to do with how the Windows is running Python 3 on the
OP's computer. The OP's description said that it was looking for the
file .\\myfile.xml in C:\Python31 which means it translated '.', the
current working directory, to be C:\Python31 and not the directory the
script is in.

>
>> The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
>> relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
>> script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
>> out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.
>>
>> import os.path
>> #get the absolute path to the current script
>> abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)
>
> According to the docs: "On most platforms, this is equivalent to
> normpath(join(os.getcwd(), path))."
>

os.path.abspath will always work in this case (unless something
changes the current working directory before that statement runs)
because __file__ is given either as an absolute path or as relative to
the current working directory.

----- /Users/bkaplan/test/test.py
print(__file__)
import os.path
print(os.path.abspath(__file__))
------------------

$ cd /users/bkaplan
$ python3 test/test.py
python3 test/test.py
test/test.py
/Users/bkaplan/test/test.py

$cd /users/bkaplan/test
$ python3 test.py
test.py
/Users/bkaplan/test/test.py


If abspath is given an absolute path, it won't touch it

Output from double clicking on the file:
/Users/bkaplan/test/test.py
/Users/bkaplan/test/test.py





> Therefore, if getcwd() is not the script's directory, as you hypothesize
> above, then most likely the result of this code is Not The Path You're
> Looking For.
>

Except that if the cwd is not the directory the script is running in,
__file__ should still point to it either through an absolute path
(highly likely since it's run through Windows Explorer) or some
(however convoluted) relative path.

> However, since the current directory is in fact OK, the above is one way to
> get a sort of canonical (a where-you-know-the-format) representation of
> __file__.
>
>
>> ?# get the full path to the directory of the script
>> directory = os.path.dirname(abs_path)
>
> This is very much likely to yield the same result as calling os.getcwd();
> see above.
>

Not if there is more than one folder between __file__ and cwd. For
instance, if the script is in a package several directories down from
the main script.

>
>> #get the full path to your file
>> my_file = os.path.join(directory, "MyFile.xml")
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb  4 00:20:47 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:20:47 +0100
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Benjamin Kaplan:
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>> * Benjamin Kaplan:
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>>> * David Monaghan:
>>>>> I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>>>>> resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>>>>> works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but
>>>>> in
>>>>> 3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31
>>>>> folder,
>>>>> not the one the script is in.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the
>>>>> behaviour
>>>>> has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>>>>> technique, I suppose).
>>>>>
>>>>> The program fails at:
>>>>>
>>>>>   try:
>>>>>       tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>>>>>   except IOError:
>>>>>       <snip>
>>>> The "//" is wrong, but should not cause the behavior that you describe.
>>>>
>>>> Try to post a complete smallest possible program that exhibits the
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly, in creating that example you'll also find what's cause the
>>>> problem. :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers & hth.,
>>>>
>>>> - Alf
>>> That is the smallest example the exhibits the problem.
>> No, it doesn't seem to exhibit the problem at all. :-)
>>
>>
>>> It's not an
>>> issue with the Python code, it's an issue with how Windows is running
>>> it. I don't know enough about the way Windows Explorer runs files, but
>>> it seems to be doing the equivalent of
>>> cd C:\Python31
>>> python31.exe C:\full\path\to\script\foo.py
>>>
>>> instead of
>>> cd C:\full\path\path\to\script
>>> C:\Python31\python.exe foo.py
>>> which is David expected. This throws off the relative filepath.
>> No, this is not what happens.
>>
>> What happens is that when you double-click the script, then __file__ is set
>> to the absolute path instead of just the filename, at least on my machine
>> (XP); whether the full path or just the filename is passed on the OS level
>> depends, however, on the Windows version.
>>
>> The current directory is always (initially) correct, as the script's
>> directory.
>>
> 
> Read my first paragraph again- it has absolutely nothing to do with
> Python. It has to do with how the Windows is running Python 3 on the
> OP's computer.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

But anyway, first, I haven't stated that "it" is (only) an issue with Python: on 
the contrary, I explained how the program is run by Windows Explorer, where in 
Windows XP the full path is passed by Windows Explorer, and how that results in 
(can result in) a full path in __file__ when a script is run by double-clicking.

Second, as stated your hypothesis about current directory is Wrong(TM).

So the explanation of an incorrect result involves not only Windows Explorer, 
the Windows version, and Python, but also the OP's code is involved.

Hence the request for a minimal, complete example  --  which is nearly always a 
good idea.



> The OP's description said that it was looking for the
> file .\\myfile.xml in C:\Python31 which means it translated '.', the
> current working directory, to be C:\Python31 and not the directory the
> script is in.

I fail to reproduce that behavior.

By the way, are you the OP (just with another name)?

If not, have you reproduced the described behavior? Then kindly post the code.


>>> The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
>>> relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
>>> script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
>>> out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.
>>>
>>> import os.path
>>> #get the absolute path to the current script
>>> abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)
>> According to the docs: "On most platforms, this is equivalent to
>> normpath(join(os.getcwd(), path))."
>>
> 
> os.path.abspath will always work in this case (unless something
> changes the current working directory before that statement runs)

Which change is what you surmised as a cause of the original problem.

Hello.


> because __file__ is given either as an absolute path or as relative to
> the current working directory.

No, that's incorrect.


<code py="3.1">
import os

print( "Current directory: [" + os.getcwd() + "]" )
print( "__file__ = " + __file__ )
os.chdir( "blah" )
print( "Current directory: [" + os.getcwd() + "]" )
print( "__file__ = " + __file__ )
</code>


<example>
C:\Documents and Settings\Alf\test> python curdir.py
Current directory: [C:\Documents and Settings\Alf\test]
__file__ = curdir.py
Current directory: [C:\Documents and Settings\Alf\test\blah]
__file__ = curdir.py                    <-- *Not* relative to cwd.

C:\Documents and Settings\Alf\test> _
</example>


[snip]
> Except that if the cwd is not the directory the script is running in,
> __file__ should still point to it either through an absolute path
> (highly likely since it's run through Windows Explorer) or some
> (however convoluted) relative path.

Don't know about "should", but if you're talking reality, no, that's incorrect; 
see above.

[snip]


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb  4 00:46:45 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:46:45 +0100
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
In-Reply-To: <hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Alf P. Steinbach:
> * Benjamin Kaplan:
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>> * Benjamin Kaplan:
>>>> The easiest way to solve this permanently, by the way, is to not use
>>>> relative paths. All it takes is one script to call os.chdir and the
>>>> script breaks. You can use __file__ and the os.path module to figure
>>>> out exactly where you are in an OS-agnostic way.
>>>>
>>>> import os.path
>>>> #get the absolute path to the current script
>>>> abs_path = os.path.abspath(__file__)
>>> According to the docs: "On most platforms, this is equivalent to
>>> normpath(join(os.getcwd(), path))."
>>>
>>
>> os.path.abspath will always work in this case (unless something
>> changes the current working directory before that statement runs)
> 
> Which change is what you surmised as a cause of the original problem.
> 
> Hello.
> 
> 
>> because __file__ is given either as an absolute path or as relative to
>> the current working directory.
> 
> No, that's incorrect.

Oh sorry, now I see what you mean. I read it too literally. You mean that at 
script startup __file__ is a valid relative or absolute path to the script.

But anyways, Windows Explorer doesn't change the current directory to that of 
the associated program, at least not in Windows XP.

Where there *is* a difference with double-clicking the script is in the path 
that ends up as __file__.


[snip my silly code counter-example + even more silly comment]


Cheers,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 01:02:29 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:02:29 -0300
Subject: Refreshing of urllib.urlopen()
References: <20100203213308.sk3w3fz0g0g804gc@webmail.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <op.u7k9qf05x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:33:08 -0300, Michael Gruenstaeudl  
<michael.gruenstaeudl at mail.utexas.edu> escribi?:

> I am fairly new to Python and need advice on the urllib.urlopen()  
> function. The website I am trying to open automatically refreshes after  
> 5 seconds and remains stable thereafter. With urllib.urlopen().read() I  
> can only read the initial but not the refreshed page. How can I access  
> the refreshed page via urlopen().read()? I have already tried to  
> intermediate with time.sleep() before invoking .read() (see below), but  
> this does not work.
>
> page=urllib.urlopen(url)
> time.sleep(20)
> htmltext=page.readlines()

How does the page refresh itself? If using a <meta http-equiv="refresh"  
...> tag, look at the url.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 01:11:06 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:11:06 -0300
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:00:56 -0300, Hidura <hidura at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Good evening list, I have a really big trouble with the imports in the  
> 3.1
> version(Notes: In the older 2.64 theres no problems), I have two  
> packages,
> the first package Utilities who contains Writer the second package,  
> Writers
> contain the module tagmanip(What is imported in the best way inside the
> __init__.py of the Writer), when i make  the import inside the writer
> everything is ok, but from the Utilities package the errors says:
> "ImportError: No module named tagsmanip".
> I don't understand why this is happening, if somebody could help me i  
> will
> glad to hear any suggestion.

In Python 3.x, "absolute" import is enabled by default (2.6 uses a mix of  
relative and absolute imports).
To import sibling modules in a package, or modules in a subpackage, you  
have to use relative imports:

 from . import tagmanip
 from .Writers import tagmanip

See PEP328 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From nagle at animats.com  Thu Feb  4 01:11:56 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:11:56 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1880.1265255448.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.1880.1265255448.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6a6150$0$1656$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Steve Holden wrote:
> John Nagle wrote:
>> Paul Rubin wrote:
>>> John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>>>> Analysis of each domain is
>>>> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
>>>> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>>>>
>>>>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
>>>> they parse web pages.  
>>> You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
>>> pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
>>> cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
>>> know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
>>> fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
>>> that.
>>    I already use separate processes for different domains.  I could
>> live with Python's GIL as long as moving to a multicore server
>> doesn't make performance worse.  That's why I asked about CPU dedication
>> for each process, to avoid thrashing at the GIL.
>>
> I believe it's already been said that the GIL thrashing is mostly MacOS
> specific. You might also find something in the affinity module

    No, the original analysis was MacOS oriented, but the same mechanism
applies for fighting over the GIL on all platforms.  There was some
pontification that it might be a MacOS-only issue, but no facts
were presented.  It might be cheaper on C implementations with mutexes
that don't make system calls for the non-blocking cases.

					John Nagle


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 01:27:16 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:27:16 -0300
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7lavq0lx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:46:45 -0300, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no>  
escribi?:

> Oh sorry, now I see what you mean. I read it too literally. You mean  
> that at script startup __file__ is a valid relative or absolute path to  
> the script.
>
> But anyways, Windows Explorer doesn't change the current directory to  
> that of the associated program, at least not in Windows XP.

But the associated program might change the current directory - that's not  
the case with the default associations created by the Python installer,  
but one should verify this.
To the OP: please create this small test script

import os
print("curdir=", os.getcwd())
print("__file__=", __file__)
input()

and post what you get when you double-click on it.

Also, from the command line, execute:

D:\temp>reg query HKCR\.py

! REG.EXE VERSION 3.0

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py
     <Sin nombre>        REG_SZ  Python.File
     Content Type        REG_SZ  text/plain

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py\PersistentHandler

D:\temp>reg query HKCR\Python.File\shell\open\command

! REG.EXE VERSION 3.0

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Python.File\shell\open\command
     <Sin nombre>        REG_SZ  "D:\Apps\Python26\python.exe" "%1" %*


The first command says that files ending with .py are of type  
"Python.File", the second one says which command is executed to open a  
"Python.File" file.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From cournape at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 01:33:10 2010
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:33:10 +0900
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c02acca21002032013s2ba4fdc6t48e0dbc5a292636d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<c02acca21002032013s2ba4fdc6t48e0dbc5a292636d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b8d13221002032233m7d4cd716te38d8eafdc888002@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Vladimir Ignatov <kmisoft at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > [?] system "knows" all your identifiers and just regenerates
>>> > relevant portions of text from internal database-alike
>>> > representation.
>>
>> You will probably want to learn about ?refactoring? to see if that's
>> related to what you mean <URL:http://www.refactoring.com/>.
>
> I mean if system actually "understands" your code (instead of try to
> figure it out from existing text files with source code), then much
> more complex refactoring is possible. My favorite refactoring is
> "Replace Method with Method Object". It is hard to imagine "external"
> tool that can provide such refactoring for python code.

You may be interested by this project, then:

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=9c768dc61001121642t5bd1a7ddmd1fe9e088e1d9ab0 at mail.gmail.com

It seems limited to Jython implementation unfortunately,

cheers,

David


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 01:57:40 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:57:40 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7xsk9hxzbv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>    There's enough intercommunication between the threads working on
> a single site that it's a pain to do them as subprocesses. And I
> definitely don't want to launch subprocesses for each page; the
> Python load time would be worse than the actual work.  The
> subprocess module assumes you're willing to launch a subprocess
> for each transaction.

Why not just use socketserver and have something like a fastcgi?


From hirotaka.niitsuma at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 02:10:02 2010
From: hirotaka.niitsuma at gmail.com (Niitsuma Hirotaka)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:10:02 +0900
Subject: python via netcat
Message-ID: <6ce56e1a1002032310j7f20c4a6q818ccb61a6ea1502@mail.gmail.com>

I write little script  run python  via netcat

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~niitsuma/jsonrpcdirect.html

Usage

$ netcat localhost 31415
{"method": "numpy.linalg.norm", "params": [[2,2]], "id": 0}

then get response

{"result": 2.8284271247461903, "error": null, "id": 0}


From stephen.thorne at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 02:15:31 2010
From: stephen.thorne at gmail.com (Stephen Thorne)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:15:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fcbad1dd-9a1d-4d06-aad1-a4b3c1d014ed@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 6:40?am, Xah Lee <xah... at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a short complaint on adminabuseon #pythonircchannel on
> freenode.net.
>
> Here's a log:
>
> 2010-02-02
>
> (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #pythonis: NO LOL |http://pound-python.org/
> | It's too early to usePython3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:http://paste.pocoo.org/| Tutorial:http://docs.python.org/tut/| FAQ:http://effbot.org/pyfaq/| New Programmer? Readhttp://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
> | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
> #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
> offtopic
> (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
> actually.
> (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
> (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
> (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
> etc) right is quite tricky
> (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
> wondering whats up with thepythonverison :D
> (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

G'day,

My name is Stephen Thorne, and my nick on #python is Jerub. dash and I
are both ops on the #python IRC channel.

According to my logs the most recent time I have banned you from
#python was the 16th of June, 2006, when I established that you were
the same troll that posts to this usenet group.

I have no interest in letting you troll #python, and thoroughly
approve of dash's responsible behaviour as a joint custodian of the
#python irc channel. Maintaining a high signal to noise ratio is
difficult, and we appreciate that in this particular case you have
acknowledged that you were made unwelcome in our IRC community and
will endeavour to avoid it in future.

Regards,
Stephen Thorne




From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 03:41:44 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:41:44 +0100
Subject: PyChecker under python's virtualenv
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1874.1265244775.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hkcr0k$pvs$1@mx1.internetia.pl> <7sub7uFstoU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.1874.1265244775.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7svfiaFvilU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 01:52, schrieb Steve Holden:
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> Am 03.02.10 22:46, schrieb soltys:
>>> Hi Everybody,
>>> I've been doing some test on pythons' virtualenv and recently I've
>>> decided to run PyChecker. But I'm having some difficulties with importing
>>> modules available only on virtualenv by pychecker. As if it was
>>> trying to use systemwide python.
>>> I've googled about it, and found nothing in this area.
>>> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
>>> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.
>>
>> I doubt that it uses the "correct python", because then you wouldn't
>> have the problems you have.
>>
>> I don't use pychecker, but pylint. And there, the system-wide command
>> uses the system's python - which of course doesn't know anything about
>> virtualenv.
>>
>> There are two solutions to this problem:
>>
>>   - install py(lint|checker) into your virtualenv.
>
> See the OP's original assertion:
>
>>> I installed pychecker using python setup.py install
>>> from virtualenv. I looked at pychecker script - it uses correct python.
>
> Isn't that "installing into his virtualenv"?

You are right, it reads like that. I should have read it better.

All I can say is that even a system-wide pylint with my recipe above 
gives me no troubles.

Diez


From purui.wang at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 03:52:55 2010
From: purui.wang at gmail.com (purui)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:52:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <69fb5e89-2ad6-42c0-b4c8-c322bd812e05@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>


> This is obvious even in the Python documentation itself where one
> frequently asks oneself "Uhh... so what is parameter X supposed to be...
> a string... a list... ?"
>

That is partially why I created this search engine for python, to see
what parameters other people feed in.
http://nullege.com/



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 04:02:06 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:02:06 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7svgogF768U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Obviously if users want to record
> their own conversations, then I can't stop them, but that's much
> different than a non-participant in the conversation leaving a recorder
> running 24/7.  Is that so hard to understand?

Is it so hard to understand that this is not about laws and rights, but 
about technical properties of the HTTP-protocol?

Your web-based chat uses HTTP, no P2P-protocol, and thus the service 
provider *can* log conversations. I don't say he should, I don't say I 
want that, I don't say there are now laws that prevent them from doing 
so, all I say is he *can*.

> I certainly didn't feel that saving or not saving client conversations
> on the server side was up to my discretion.  When I found that the
> default server configuration caused conversations to be logged then I
> was appalled.

Then stop logging. Or get a hosting-provider that allows you to 
configure it to strip QUERY_STRINGS from log-entries. And if they refuse 
to, maybe using POST solves the issue.

But wait, there is

http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/apache-mod_dumpio-log-post-data/

So what if they run that?

So, for the umpteenth time: data sent over the wire can be recorded. 
 From the user's POV, your nitpicking of who's the actual culprit - the 
IT-guys, or the programmers - is fruitless. You have a nice anecdote 
where switching from GET to POST allowed you to trick whoever wasn't 
acting to your wishes. Good for you. But John B. and your posts indicate 
that using POST is inherently more secure. It *isn't*.


> Do you think the phone company has the right to record all your phone
> calls if they feel like it (absent something like a law enforcement
> investigation)?  What about coffee shops that you visit with your
> friends?  It is not up to their discretion.  They have a positive
> obligation to not do it.  If you think they are doing it on purpose
> without your authorization, you should notify the FBI or your
> equivalent, not just "don't use it".  If they find they are doing it
> inadvertently, they have to take measures to make it stop.  That is the
> situation I found myself in, because of the difference in how servers
> treat GET vs.  POST.

If they have a positive obligation not to do it, it doesn't matter if 
they run their service over GET or POST.

Again, this is not about laws and what service providers should or must 
do. It's about POST vs. GET, and if either of them is more secure or 
not. It isn't.


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 04:07:49 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:07:49 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <7svh39F8vvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 01:42, schrieb John Bokma:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>
>> Am 03.02.10 19:11, schrieb John Bokma:
>>> Alan Harris-Reid<alan at baselinedata.co.uk>   writes:
>>>
>>>> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
>>>> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
>>>> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
>>>> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
>>>> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
>>>> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>>>
>>> You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
>>> records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
>>> should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying information.
>>
>> You should *never* say never, because there might be situations where
>> exceptions from rules are valid. This is one such cases. Making this a
>> post means that you need to resort to javascript to populate&  submit
>> a hidden HTML-form. Just for the sake of a POST.
>
> Make each edit/delete button a submit button and optionally style it.

*slap* Yep, you are right, no JS needed. I should have thought about that.

>
>> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
>> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
>> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.
>
> Maybe you should think about what happens if someone posts:
> <img src="http://example.com/item_delete?id=123">  to a popular forum...

And the difference to posting

from urrlib2 import open
from urllib import encode

open("http://example.com/item_delete", data=encode([("id", "123")]))

to that same public "hacker" forum is exactly what?

If your webapp happens to allow item_delete to be called without 
authentication & authorization, then *that's* your problem.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 04:23:40 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 10:23:40 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.04.02.52.13.719000@nowhere.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.04.02.52.13.719000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <7svi0uFecmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 03:52, schrieb Nobody:
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:09:07 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>>> Also, your claim of it being more risky is simply nonsense. GET is a
>>> tiny bit more prone to tinkering by the average user. But calling this
>>> less risky is promoting security by obscurity, at most.
>>
>> GET parameters also tend to get recorded in the http logs of web proxies
>> and web servers while POST parameters usually aren't.
>
> More significantly, they'll appear in the Referer: header for any link the
> user follows from the page, so they're visible to anyone who can get a
> link to their site onto the page (whether<a href=...>,<img src=...>  or
> whatever).
>
> Even if this isn't possible at the moment, will you remember to fix it the
> first time you allow an off-site link?
>
> You should assume that anything which goes into a GET request is visible
> to the entire world. Don't put anything even remotely private in there.

You mean like

   http://www.google.de/search?q=dirty+buttsex

? Which is the key example for when to use GET - non-modifying queries.

I agree though that you have to be cautious about that, and using POST 
makes it easier to do so.

Diez


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 04:41:03 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:41:03 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <69fb5e89-2ad6-42c0-b4c8-c322bd812e05@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<69fb5e89-2ad6-42c0-b4c8-c322bd812e05@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002040141j63500b4fjb226944012dacd4c@mail.gmail.com>

> That is partially why I created this search engine for python, to see
> what parameters other people feed in.
> http://nullege.com/

Thank you for excellent effort! I found it very useful and start using
it on almost everyday basis. It's much simple to learn from real live
examples.

Vladimir Ignatov


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:27:49 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:27:49 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7svgogF768U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xeil1qore.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> Your web-based chat uses HTTP, no P2P-protocol, and thus the service
> provider *can* log conversations. I don't say he should, I don't say I
> want that, I don't say there are now laws that prevent them from doing
> so, all I say is he *can*.

Sure, my complaint is that the default setup caused this to actually
happen so lots of people using that software were recording user
conversations without realizing it and maybe without caring.  This
is a bad erosion as I see it.

> Then stop logging. Or get a hosting-provider that allows you to
> configure it to strip QUERY_STRINGS from log-entries. And if they
> refuse to, maybe using POST solves the issue.

I did stop logging.  There wasn't an issue with the hosting provider
since I was running the server myself.  But I had to resort to some ugly
software kludge to stop logging those particular strings.  More
frustratingly, I filed a bug report about the issue against the chat
software but the conversation was sort of like the one you and I are
having now.  I just couldn't convince them that there was a problem and
that they should change the default.

> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/apache-mod_dumpio-log-post-data/
> So what if they run that?

That sounds like something someone would have to go out of their way to
install and use.  It's not the default.  Of course if someone is
malicious they can do all sorts of nasty stuff.  A coffeeshop that
wanted to mess with me on purpose wouldn't have to do high tech crap
like recording my conversations--they could just poison my coffee.  I
have to trust them to not do this on purpose, but then I see a situation
where their coffee sweetener accidentaly has a harmful chemical, so of
course I'd ask them to do something about it.

> So, for the umpteenth time: data sent over the wire can be recorded. 

And for the umpteenth time, I'm less concerned about "can be" than "is".
POST isn't logged unless you go to some lengths to have it logged.  GET
is logged unless you go to some lengths to prevent it.  It's not enough
in a software deployment to only consider what actions are possible.
It's important to make sure that the default actions are the right ones.

> If they have a positive obligation not to do it, it doesn't matter if
> they run their service over GET or POST.

GET makes it harder for them to fulfill their obligations.  As a
security nerd, I saw what was happening and took measures against it,
but a more typical operator might never notice or care.

There is also the matter of the referer header which an anon mentioned,
though it didn't apply to this particular situation because of how
the application worked.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:32:01 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:32:01 -0800
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6aa21d$0$11075$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xaavpqoke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:
>> The buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123',
> ...At least use "POST" requests for anything that Create/Update/Delete
> resources.

There's also the issue that a user can change "123" to "125" and
possibly mess with someone else's resource, unless you use some server
side authentication.  Or just seeing how often the numbers change could
reveal patterns about what other users are doing.  I always think it's
best to encrypt anything sensitive like that, to avoid leaking any info.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:32:02 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:32:02 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6aa21d$0$11075$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Alan Harris-Reid a ?crit :
> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to 
> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The 
> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but 
> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the 
> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL 
> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).

Basic HTTP stuff - this is definitely not Python-related.
<OT>
Do yourself (and your users / customers / etc) a favor and read the HTTP 
rfc. "GET" requests should NOT modify the server state. At least use 
"POST" requests for anything that Create/Update/Delete resources.

For the record, someone once had serious problems with GET requests 
deleting records - turned out to be a very bad idea when a robot started 
following these links...
</OT>

> Is there another way of passing a record-id to a method

href="/item/23/edit"
href="/item/edit/23"

etc

> a) without it appearing in the URL?
> b) without the user being able to fathom-out how to attach which id to 
> which URL?

Wrong solution. The correct solution is to
1/ make correct use of the request method (GET and POST at least).
2/ make sure the user performing the action has the permission to do it.


1/ won't protect your data from malicious users, but will at least avoid 
accidental mistakes.

2/ by checking the user's perms when handling the POST request of course 
- not by hidding "forbidden" urls.

> As each link contains row-id, I guess there is nothing to stop someone 
> from getting the id from the page source-code.

Nor even from trying any other id (brute-force attack).

>  Is it safe to use the 
> above href method if I test for authorised credentials (user/password 
> stored as session variables, perhaps?) before performing the edit/delete 
> action?

cf above.

> I am currently using CherryPy 3.2, but I guess the theory could apply to 
> any HTTP framework or web app..

Indeed.
</OT>



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 05:39:39 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:09:39 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>

Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
area.

hope the picture makes it clear
http://imagebin.us/images/p5qeo7hgc3547pnyrb6.gif
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:47:45 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:47:45 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4b6aa5cf$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Diez B. Roggisch a ?crit :
> Am 03.02.10 19:11, schrieb John Bokma:
>> Alan Harris-Reid<alan at baselinedata.co.uk>  writes:
>>
>>> I have a web-page where each row in a grid has edit/delete buttons to
>>> enable the user to maintain a selected record on another page.  The
>>> buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123', but
>>> this string appears in the URL and gives clues as to how to bypass the
>>> correct sequence of events, and could be risky if they entered the URL
>>> directly (especially when it comes to deleting records).
>>
>> You should *never* use a GET request to do actions like deleting
>> records. You already are aware of it being risky, so don't do this. You
>> should use GET for getting information, and POST for modifying 
>> information.
> 
> You should *never* say never, because there might be situations where 
> exceptions from rules are valid. This is one such cases.

Oh yes ?

> Making this a 
> post means that you need to resort to javascript to populate & submit a 
> hidden HTML-form. 

I beg your pardon ???? This is total nonsense. Hopefully you don't need 
any js to emit a post request from a browser ! The only thing you need 
to do is to use a form and submit input instead.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:52:12 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:52:12 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7xaavpqoke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6aa21d$0$11075$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7xaavpqoke.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4b6aa6d6$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Paul Rubin a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:
>>> The buttons are in the form of a link with href='/item_edit?id=123',
>> ...At least use "POST" requests for anything that Create/Update/Delete
>> resources.
> 
> There's also the issue that a user can change "123" to "125" and
> possibly mess with someone else's resource,
> unless you use some server
> side authentication.

What I said IIRC.

>  Or just seeing how often the numbers change could
> reveal patterns about what other users are doing.  I always think it's
> best to encrypt anything sensitive like that, to avoid leaking any info.

Depends on how "sensitive" it really is.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb  4 05:53:21 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:53:21 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <4b6aa5cf$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4b6aa5cf$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b6aa71b$0$30293$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Bruno Desthuilliers a ?crit :
> Diez B. Roggisch a ?crit :
(snip)
>> Making this a post means that you need to resort to javascript to 
>> populate & submit a hidden HTML-form. 
> 
> I beg your pardon ???? This is total nonsense. 

Sorry, posted too fast, John alredy adressed this.


From kmisoft at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 05:54:58 2010
From: kmisoft at gmail.com (Vladimir Ignatov)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:54:58 +0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <5b8d13221002032233m7d4cd716te38d8eafdc888002@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<3dfd60f21002030728p32207e51h958399dcf91af65d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1836.1265212095.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.42.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<87k4utn570.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<c02acca21002032013s2ba4fdc6t48e0dbc5a292636d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b8d13221002032233m7d4cd716te38d8eafdc888002@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c02acca21002040254p14c80e3ej23fb4d88bd93656c@mail.gmail.com>

> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=9c768dc61001121642t5bd1a7ddmd1fe9e088e1d9ab0 at mail.gmail.com

Thanks a lot! That is a great reference (a must read for everybody
interested). Reading just this: "Internally at Google we have a
language-neutral representation shared by all our language analyzers,"
make me jumping ;-)  Googlers can't be wrong.

Vladimir Ignatov


From anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 06:13:58 2010
From: anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com (Anh Hai Trinh)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:13:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	<4b6a3f46$0$1597$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <c9309bc7-be7e-4155-a5d5-fa2ab3f8fa6c@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 10:46?am, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>
> ? ? There's enough intercommunication between the threads working on
> a single site that it's a pain to do them as subprocesses. And I
> definitely don't want to launch subprocesses for each page; the
> Python load time would be worse than the actual work. ?The
> subprocess module assumes you're willing to launch a subprocess
> for each transaction.

You could perhaps use a process pool inside each domain worker to work
on the pages?  There is multiprocessing.Pool and other
implementations.

For examples, in this library, you can s/ThreadPool/ProcessPool/g and
this example would work: <http://www.onideas.ws/stream.py/#retrieving-
web-pages-concurrently>.

If you want to DIY, with multiprocessing.Lock/Pipe/Queue, I don't
understand why it would be more of a pain to write your threads as
processes.


// aht
http://blog.onideas.ws


From groups_ads12 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 06:16:50 2010
From: groups_ads12 at yahoo.com (groups_ads12)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:16:50 -0000
Subject: learn Sql Server 2000 2005 2008
Message-ID: <hkeab2+383q@eGroups.com>

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uning+sql+server+2005>

sql server tables
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ta\
bles>

copy sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=copy+sql+serv\
er>

sql server 2005 recovery
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+20\
05+recovery>

syntax sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=syntax+sql+se\
rver>

sql server exams
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sql+server+ex\
ams>

creating sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=creating+sql+\
server>

tsql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=tsql+server>

sqlserver server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=sqlserver+ser\
ver>

differences sql server
<http://www.sqlserver.learn.net.in/videos/index.php?search=differences+s\
ql+server> 
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From lallous at lgwm.org  Thu Feb  4 06:34:04 2010
From: lallous at lgwm.org (lallous)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:34:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a multiline string
Message-ID: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello

Maybe that's already documented, but it seems the parser accepts to
build a long string w/o really using the first method:

# Method1
x = "line1" + \ # cannot use comments!
"line2"+ \
"line3"

and instead using a list with one element like this:

# Method2
x = [
"line1" # can use comments
"line2"
"line3"
][0]

Or:
# Method3
x = (
"line1" # can use comments
"line2"
"line3"
)

(Not that I don't want new lines in the strings)

Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?

--
Elias


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb  4 06:41:18 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:41:18 -0800
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com> wrote:
> Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
> all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
> area.

How is this at all specific to Python?

This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.

Cheers,
Chris
--
Back to toiling away on CSE 105 HW#3
http://blog.rebertia.com


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 06:47:43 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:17:43 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>

I wanted some general suggestion/tips only

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
> > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
> > area.
>
> How is this at all specific to Python?
>
> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> Back to toiling away on CSE 105 HW#3
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
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From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Feb  4 06:54:14 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:54:14 +1000
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure what you're after. Are you after how to calculate the area? Or
are you trying to graph it? Or an analytical solution?

What do you mean by "take out the intersection"?

-Xav

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> I wanted some general suggestion/tips only
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius
>> of
>> > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
>> > area.
>>
>> How is this at all specific to Python?
>>
>> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
>> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
>> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --
>> Back to toiling away on CSE 105 HW#3
>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 07:04:35 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:04:35 -0500
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <4B69A575.2020604@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com><pan.2010.02.02.03.28.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au><hk9btv$gf$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1795.1265135424.28905.python-list@python.org><hk9v9c$4qd$1@reader2.panix.com><mailman.1804.1265150872.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkbv23$c07$1@reader2.panix.com>	<hkc7jg$jt$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<4B69A575.2020604@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <hked4u$so3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Tim Golden wrote:
> On 03/02/2010 16:17, kj wrote:
>> Boy, that was dumb of me.  The above apology was meant for Stephen
>> Hansen, not Steve Holden.  I guess this is now a meta-apology...
>> (Sheesh.)
> 
> You see? That's what I like about the Python community:
> people even apologise for apologising :)
> 
QOTW?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:05:46 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:35:46 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>

I want to calculate areas.
like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'

similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
calculate the area common to all.
The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there any
other approach possible.

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Xavier Ho <contact at xavierho.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure what you're after. Are you after how to calculate the area? Or
> are you trying to graph it? Or an analytical solution?
>
> What do you mean by "take out the intersection"?
>
> -Xav
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I wanted some general suggestion/tips only
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius
>>> of
>>> > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of
>>> their
>>> > area.
>>>
>>> How is this at all specific to Python?
>>>
>>> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
>>> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
>>> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>> --
>>> Back to toiling away on CSE 105 HW#3
>>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Thu Feb  4 07:09:46 2010
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:09:46 +0100
Subject: Building a multiline string
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a1qq37-bjg.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Just for the record: Neither of the below methods actually produce a
multiline string. They only spread a string containing one line over
multiple lines of source code.

lallous wrote:
> Maybe that's already documented, but it seems the parser accepts to
> build a long string w/o really using the first method:
> 
> # Method1
> x = "line1" + \ # cannot use comments!
> "line2"+ \
> "line3"

Well, obviously you can't use comments like that there. The point of the
backslash is that it continues the current logical line over the
_immediately_ _following_ newline. If anything follows, that obviously
doesn't work.

> and instead using a list with one element like this:
> 
> # Method2
> x = [
> "line1" # can use comments
> "line2"
> "line3"
> ][0]

This basically makes use of the fact that "this" "is" "one" "string" and not
four strings.

> # Method3
> x = (
> "line1" # can use comments
> "line2"
> "line3"
> )

This uses the same, only that this time it uses brackets which cause an
expression to extend to multiple lines.

> (Not that I don't want new lines in the strings)

You don't not want or you don't want newlines? Depending on that, you could
also do this:

# method 4
x = "line1"\
    "line2"\
    "line3"

or maybe

# method 5
x = """line1
line2
line3
"""


> Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?

I'd go for 3 or 4. 2 is basically a hack (you could do the same with a
dictionary, or a tuple, not only a list). 1 will actually create strings
and then concatenate them (unless Python is smart enough to optimize that),
but it allows adding expressions in the middle.

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 07:14:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:14:13 -0500
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4B6ABA15.7020307@holdenweb.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
>>> But it would be outrageous for the shop owner to record the
>>> conversations of patrons.
>> Which is the exact thing that happens when you use an email-provider
>> with IMAP. Or google wave. Or groups. Or facebook. Or twitter. Which I
>> wouldn't call outrageous.
> 
> Those are not comparable.  IMAP is a storage service, and groups,
> facebook, and twitter are publishing systems (ok, I've never understood
> quite what Google Wave is).  Yes, by definition, your voice mail
> provider (like IMAP) has to save recordings of messages people leave
> you, but that's a heck of a lot different than your phone carrier
> recording your real-time conversations.  Recording live phone
> conversations by a third party is called a "wiretap" and doing it
> without suitable authorization can get you in a heck of a lot of
> trouble.
> 
Unless you happen to be following the illegal instructions of the
President of the United States, in which case Congress will
retro-actively alter the law to void your offenses and provide you with
legal immunity for your wrong-doing. Assuming you are a large telephone
company and not a private individual.

>> This discussion moves away from the original question: is there
>> anything inherently less secure when using GET vs. POST. There isn't.
> 
> Well, the extra logging of GET parameters is not inherent to the
> protocol, but it's an accidental side effect that server ops may have to
> watch out for.
> 
>> Users can forge both kind of requests easy enough, whoever sits in the
>> middle can access both, 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Obviously if users want to record
> their own conversations, then I can't stop them, but that's much
> different than a non-participant in the conversation leaving a recorder
> running 24/7.  Is that so hard to understand?
> 
> Interception from the middle is addressed by SSL, though that relies on
> the PKI certificate infrastructure, which while somewhat dubious, is
> better than nothing.
> 
>> and it's at the discretion of the service provider to only save what
>> it needs to.  If you don't trust it, don't use it.
> 
> I certainly didn't feel that saving or not saving client conversations
> on the server side was up to my discretion.  When I found that the
> default server configuration caused conversations to be logged then I
> was appalled.
> 
> Do you think the phone company has the right to record all your phone
> calls if they feel like it (absent something like a law enforcement
> investigation)?  What about coffee shops that you visit with your
> friends?  It is not up to their discretion.  They have a positive
> obligation to not do it.  If you think they are doing it on purpose
> without your authorization, you should notify the FBI or your
> equivalent, not just "don't use it".  If they find they are doing it
> inadvertently, they have to take measures to make it stop.  That is the
> situation I found myself in, because of the difference in how servers
> treat GET vs.  POST.

A lot will depend on the terms of service of the network supply
contract. Most vendors take pains to ensure that such "innocent" logging
(i.e. the maintenance by their servers of logging information, which may
under subpoena or similar legal coercion be given up to law enforcement
authorities as "business records") is permitted. If you have signed the
contract, then they have the right to log that data.

Caveat emptor.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Feb  4 07:19:35 2010
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:19:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Common area of circles
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1c8224ad-58ac-4572-b182-ebfc545d5b8b@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Shashwat Anand:
> > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
> > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
> > area.

I can see two possible solutions, both approximate. In both solutions
you first look if there are a pair of circles that don't intersect, in
this case the intersect area is zero. You also remove all circles
fully contained in another circle.

The first strategy is easy to do, but it probably leads to a lower
precision. Then you can sample randomly many times the rectangular
area that surely contains all circles. You count how many of those
random points are inside all circles. This gives you an approximate
area of their intersection. Increasing the points numbers slowly
increases the result precision.

The second strategy is more complex. You convert your circles into
polygons with a fixed number of vertices (like 50 or 100 or 1000 or
more. This number is constant even if the circles don't have all the
same radius). So you can turn this circle into a simple mesh of
triangles (all vertices are on the circumference). Then you "subtract"
the second polygonalized circle, this can create a hole and split
triangles in pieces, and so on with successive circles. At the end you
can compute the total area of the triangles left. This is doable, but
you need time to do implement this. The advantage is that the
numerical precision of the result is probably higher. If you implement
this second solution you can implement the first one too, and use it
as a test to avoid bugs. Visualizing the triangles with Pygame or
MatPlotLib can be useful to look for bugs.

Bye,
bearophile


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:27:14 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:57:14 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <1c8224ad-58ac-4572-b182-ebfc545d5b8b@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1c8224ad-58ac-4572-b182-ebfc545d5b8b@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040427l332e370bl68e9da413a5b5a7e@mail.gmail.com>

I needed 6 decimal places of accuracy, so first way of solution will not
work for my case. However, your second strategy seems promising. Working on
it. Thanks :D
~l0nwlf

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Bearophile <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com> wrote:

> Shashwat Anand:
> > > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius
> of
> > > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of
> their
> > > area.
>
> I can see two possible solutions, both approximate. In both solutions
> you first look if there are a pair of circles that don't intersect, in
> this case the intersect area is zero. You also remove all circles
> fully contained in another circle.
>
> The first strategy is easy to do, but it probably leads to a lower
> precision. Then you can sample randomly many times the rectangular
> area that surely contains all circles. You count how many of those
> random points are inside all circles. This gives you an approximate
> area of their intersection. Increasing the points numbers slowly
> increases the result precision.
>
> The second strategy is more complex. You convert your circles into
> polygons with a fixed number of vertices (like 50 or 100 or 1000 or
> more. This number is constant even if the circles don't have all the
> same radius). So you can turn this circle into a simple mesh of
> triangles (all vertices are on the circumference). Then you "subtract"
> the second polygonalized circle, this can create a hole and split
> triangles in pieces, and so on with successive circles. At the end you
> can compute the total area of the triangles left. This is doable, but
> you need time to do implement this. The advantage is that the
> numerical precision of the result is probably higher. If you implement
> this second solution you can implement the first one too, and use it
> as a test to avoid bugs. Visualizing the triangles with Pygame or
> MatPlotLib can be useful to look for bugs.
>
> Bye,
> bearophile
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:28:20 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:28:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: read a process output with subprocess.Popen
Message-ID: <fe2fedf6-b1a9-497f-a174-b7479d7941fc@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I m trying a read the output of a process which is running
continuously with subprocess.Popen. However the readline() method
hangs for the process to finish. Please let me know if the following
code can be made to work with subprocess.Popen with threads or queues.
I tried a lot of methods but to no avail. It would be great if someone
can make it work.

import subprocess

p1 = subprocess.Popen('tail -f /var/log/
messages',stdout=subprocess.PIPE,shell=True)
p2 = subprocess.Popen('grep
something',stdin=p1.stdout,stdout=subprocess.PIPE,shell=True)

while 1:
    line = p2.stdout.readline()
    print line

Thanks,
~Ashok.


From mgedmin at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:28:29 2010
From: mgedmin at gmail.com (Marius Gedminas)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:28:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87wrytdirw.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <9e80909d-906c-466b-b9cb-77400a42ee7e@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 1:03?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > I can explain all of Python in an hour;
>
> OK, in that case I would say give it a go. Put it on YouTube, or write a
> blog post about it (or post it here). I am sure you will help a lot of
> people that way.

Someone already did: "Advanced Python or Understanding Python"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549
(76 minutes).

Worth watching.

Regards,
--
Marius Gedminas


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 07:31:01 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:31:01 -0500
Subject: Building a multiline string
In-Reply-To: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkeemg$vht$2@ger.gmane.org>

lallous wrote:
> Hello
> 
> Maybe that's already documented, but it seems the parser accepts to
> build a long string w/o really using the first method:
> 
> # Method1
> x = "line1" + \ # cannot use comments!
> "line2"+ \
> "line3"
> 
> and instead using a list with one element like this:
> 
> # Method2
> x = [
> "line1" # can use comments
> "line2"
> "line3"
> ][0]
> 
> Or:
> # Method3
> x = (
> "line1" # can use comments
> "line2"
> "line3"
> )
> 
> (Not that I don't want new lines in the strings)
> 
> Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?
> 
I should have thought it was pretty obvious that method 2 creates a list
and then performs an indexing operation on it. These are completely
unnecessary operations, which are avoided in method 3 which is a simple
parenthesised expression.

So why anyone would want to adopt method 2, which is also mess clear as
source code, is beyond me.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb  4 07:59:52 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:59:52 +0100
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>

MRAB wrote:
> In other words:
>
> for attempt in range(2):
>     try:
>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es', 
> lang_from='en')
>         break
>     except TranslationError:
>         pass
> else:
>     # Didn't break out of the loop, therefore not successful.
>     print "Translation failed"

What the hell is this 'for else' loop !! :D First time I see this 
statement for years.
I'd never thought I'd still learn something that basic.

My first impression is that the  mechansim is not that obvious. MRAB's 
need for a comment tends to confirm this.
I'll try to remember that anyway. Nice addition.

JM




From marco at sferacarta.com  Thu Feb  4 08:23:46 2010
From: marco at sferacarta.com (Marco Mariani)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:23:46 +0100
Subject: Building a multiline string
In-Reply-To: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <CTzan.104948$813.39747@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

On 02/04/2010 12:34 PM, lallous wrote:

> Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?

Another way... depending on what you are using the string for, of
course. If it's an HTML/XML/SQL/whatever piece of code:

>>>> from textwrap import dedent
>>>> sql = dedent("""
> ...              SELECT *
> ...                FROM table
> ...               WHERE foo=bar
> ...              """)
>>>> 
>>>> print sql
> 
> SELECT *
>   FROM table
>  WHERE foo=bar
> 


And if you don't want the starting/ending newlines:

>>>> sql = dedent("""\
> ...              SELECT *
> ...                FROM table
> ...               WHERE foo=bar\
> ...              """)
>>>> 
>>>> print sql
> SELECT *
>   FROM table
>  WHERE foo=bar             
>>>> 

I use this sometimes to keep both python and the embedded code readable
while preserving indentation.




From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Feb  4 08:31:17 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:31:17 +1000
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040427l332e370bl68e9da413a5b5a7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1c8224ad-58ac-4572-b182-ebfc545d5b8b@p24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040427l332e370bl68e9da413a5b5a7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002040531g42d0ced3y220b0ff32e56a7f1@mail.gmail.com>

It's an interesting problem. Never thought it was this difficult. I can't
account for all geometrical enumerations, but assuming all 4 circles
intersect, here's the solution for this particular senario. It's probably
not going to be useful to you since you're working on geometrical
approximations now, but it is precise to the exact value.

I don't have it worked out here, but it goes like this.

1. Find the area covered by all 4 circles, unioned. Method here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1667310/combined-area-of-overlapping-circles

2: Follow this chart I made up:
http://xavierho.com/media/images/Misc/IntersectionOfFourCircles.png

And there you go. I'm sure there are way better, faster ways, and covers a
lot more senarios, but this is the best I can come up with, without counting
the rasterised pixels ratio =P.

I like Bearophile's solution. Have fun!

Cheers,
Xav

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:27 PM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> I needed 6 decimal places of accuracy, so first way of solution will not
> work for my case. However, your second strategy seems promising. Working on
> it. Thanks :D
> ~l0nwlf
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Bearophile <bearophileHUGS at lycos.com>wrote:
>
>> Shashwat Anand:
>> > > Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius
>> of
>> > > all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of
>> their
>> > > area.
>>
>> I can see two possible solutions, both approximate. In both solutions
>> you first look if there are a pair of circles that don't intersect, in
>> this case the intersect area is zero. You also remove all circles
>> fully contained in another circle.
>>
>> The first strategy is easy to do, but it probably leads to a lower
>> precision. Then you can sample randomly many times the rectangular
>> area that surely contains all circles. You count how many of those
>> random points are inside all circles. This gives you an approximate
>> area of their intersection. Increasing the points numbers slowly
>> increases the result precision.
>>
>> The second strategy is more complex. You convert your circles into
>> polygons with a fixed number of vertices (like 50 or 100 or 1000 or
>> more. This number is constant even if the circles don't have all the
>> same radius). So you can turn this circle into a simple mesh of
>> triangles (all vertices are on the circumference). Then you "subtract"
>> the second polygonalized circle, this can create a hole and split
>> triangles in pieces, and so on with successive circles. At the end you
>> can compute the total area of the triangles left. This is doable, but
>> you need time to do implement this. The advantage is that the
>> numerical precision of the result is probably higher. If you implement
>> this second solution you can implement the first one too, and use it
>> as a test to avoid bugs. Visualizing the triangles with Pygame or
>> MatPlotLib can be useful to look for bugs.
>>
>> Bye,
>> bearophile
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb  4 09:01:01 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:01:01 -0500
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> I want to calculate areas.
> like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
>
> similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
> calculate the area common to all.
> The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there
> any other approach possible.

There is a method for calculating the area of a polygon by traversing 
its boundary. I forget the formula, but you should be able to find it. 
So *if* you can find the arcs that bound the area, you can approximate 
each by a series of short lines and apply the polygon method.

Terry Jan Reedy



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 09:19:06 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:49:06 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>

thanks, all of you

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> I want to calculate areas.
>> like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
>>
>> similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
>> calculate the area common to all.
>> The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there
>> any other approach possible.
>>
>
> There is a method for calculating the area of a polygon by traversing its
> boundary. I forget the formula, but you should be able to find it. So *if*
> you can find the arcs that bound the area, you can approximate each by a
> series of short lines and apply the polygon method.
>
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb  4 09:57:59 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:57:59 -0500
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_ at castleamber.com>,
 John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:

> Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
> 
> > That's a pretty accurate description of how I transitioned to Python 
> > from C and Fortran.
> 
> Not C, but C++ (but there are also C implementations): YAML, see:
> http://code.google.com/p/yaml-cpp/wiki/HowToParseADocument
> 
> I use YAML now and then with Perl for both reading/writing data and for
> debugging purposes (YAML is quite human readable, for programmers at least)
> 
> Of course there is also YAML support for Python:
> http://pyyaml.org/.

Well, that looks a bit more complicated than I would like, but maybe 
it's doing more stuff than I can grok.  Here's what I needed and how I 
did it in Python:

# Make some variables
x=1.234e-8
y=2
astr="An output string...whatever"
z=4.5+1j*1.3456  # a complex number

# Output them to a file already opened as fp
outlist=[x, y, astr, z]
repvars= repr(outlist)+"\n"
fp.write(repvars)

# Reading same list in:
instr=fp.readline()
inlist=eval(instr)
x1,y1,astr1,z1= inlist


That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous 
collection of variables. I can add more variables, shuffle the order, 
whatever without messing with formatting, etc. That's pretty easy for me 
and it's easy for anyone to see and understand what's being done.  Not 
trying to start an argument, just showing how the former messasge I was 
replying to made a good point about Python's way of doing things and the 
effort to shake off old habits from other languages.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb  4 09:59:29 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:59:29 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<7x8wb9j4r2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-AAF4FB.09592904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <7x8wb9j4r2.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
> > after much noodling around and reading it hit me that I could just put
> > all that output of different types of variables into a list, hit it
> > with a repr() function to get a string version, and write the string
> > to a file -- no formatting necessary-- three lines of code. Later
> > reading in the string version (no formatting necessary), and hitting
> > it with an eval() function returned all the values I originally had in
> > those variables.  How simple, but beautiful.
> 
> FYI: I do that too sometimes, but in general using repr/eval that way
> is poor style and not very reliable.  It's better to use the pickle
> module, which is intended for that sort of thing, or the json module
> if your datatypes are suitable and you want to follow a semi-standard.

Yeah, I should look into pickle.  Haven't messed with that.  Most of 
what I do is numerical calculations for my consumption/research so quick 
and easy comes first.  Thanks for the hint.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From hidura at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 10:40:41 2010
From: hidura at gmail.com (Hidura)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:40:41 -0400
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
In-Reply-To: <op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <4bbf7fb21002040740x66f203c7x57099d07de1fe30@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I read it and try to put my code in the correct form, but now give
me another error, inside the Writer Package says:
"ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package", if somebody knows a
clue of how fix it i will glad to read opinions. [?]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:11 AM, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>wrote:

> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:00:56 -0300, Hidura <hidura at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>  Good evening list, I have a really big trouble with the imports in the 3.1
>> version(Notes: In the older 2.64 theres no problems), I have two packages,
>> the first package Utilities who contains Writer the second package,
>> Writers
>> contain the module tagmanip(What is imported in the best way inside the
>> __init__.py of the Writer), when i make  the import inside the writer
>> everything is ok, but from the Utilities package the errors says:
>> "ImportError: No module named tagsmanip".
>> I don't understand why this is happening, if somebody could help me i will
>> glad to hear any suggestion.
>>
>
> In Python 3.x, "absolute" import is enabled by default (2.6 uses a mix of
> relative and absolute imports).
> To import sibling modules in a package, or modules in a subpackage, you
> have to use relative imports:
>
> from . import tagmanip
> from .Writers import tagmanip
>
> See PEP328 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0328/
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Hidura
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From grflanagan at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 11:29:25 2010
From: grflanagan at gmail.com (Gerard Flanagan)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:29:25 +0000
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkesl4$s9n$1@ger.gmane.org>


>     On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> 
>         I want to calculate areas.
>         like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
> 
>         similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
>         calculate the area common to all.
>         The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is
>         there
>         any other approach possible.
> 
> 

A brute force approach - create a grid of small squares and calculate 
which squares are in all circles. I don't know whether it is any better 
than monte-carlo: for two circles, delta=0.001 takes about a minute and 
delta=0.0001 is still running after 30 minutes :-)

1.22
1.2281
1.22834799999


------------------------------------------------------------------
import math

class Circle:

     def __init__(self, x, y, r=1):
         self.x = float(x)
         self.y = float(y)
         self.r = float(r)

     def contains(self, a, b):
         return math.sqrt((self.x-a)**2 + (self.y-b)**2) <= self.r

class Grid:

     def __init__(self, circles):
         self.X1 = min(c.x-c.r for c in circles)
         self.Y1 = max(c.y+c.r for c in circles)
         self.X2 = max(c.x+c.r for c in circles)
         self.Y2 = min(c.y-c.r for c in circles)
         self.circles = circles

     def iter_boxes(self, delta):
         X2 = self.X2
         Y2 = self.Y2
         a = self.X1
         while a < X2:
             a += delta
             b = self.Y1
             while b > Y2:
                 b -= delta
                 #print a, b
                 yield a, b

     def intersection(self, delta=0.1):
         S = 0
         s = delta**2 #box area
         circles = self.circles
         for a, b in self.iter_boxes(delta):
             if all(c.contains(a, b) for c in circles):
                 S += s
         return S


c = Circle(0, 1)

assert c.contains(0, 1)
assert c.contains(0, 1.5)
assert c.contains(math.sqrt(2)/2, math.sqrt(2)/2)
assert c.contains(0, 2)
assert not c.contains(0, 2.01)
assert not c.contains(0, 2.1)
assert not c.contains(0, 3)

circles = [
         Circle(0, 0),
         Circle(0, 1),
]

g = Grid(circles)

print '-'*30
print g.intersection()
print g.intersection(0.01)
print g.intersection(0.001)
print g.intersection(0.0001)

------------------------------------------------------------------



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb  4 11:36:09 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:36:09 +0000
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B6AF779.8010609@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>> In other words:
>>
>> for attempt in range(2):
>>     try:
>>         spanish_field = translate(english_field, lang_to='es', 
>> lang_from='en')
>>         break
>>     except TranslationError:
>>         pass
>> else:
>>     # Didn't break out of the loop, therefore not successful.
>>     print "Translation failed"
> 
> What the hell is this 'for else' loop !! :D First time I see this 
> statement for years.
> I'd never thought I'd still learn something that basic.
> 
> My first impression is that the  mechansim is not that obvious. MRAB's 
> need for a comment tends to confirm this.
> I'll try to remember that anyway. Nice addition.
> 
The comment is there for the OP. _I_ don't need it! :-)


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 11:38:37 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 08:38:37 -0800
Subject: Repeat an exception
In-Reply-To: <4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>
References: <278d6194-96c9-4557-b1fd-25345d7cc8a1@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<hkdd91$peu$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B6A3C57.2000606@mrabarnett.plus.com> 
	<4B6AC4C8.5030902@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002040838g5fed0fb1leffbe227c42119b8@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant <
jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> What the hell is this 'for else' loop !! :D First time I see this statement
> for years.
> I'd never thought I'd still learn something that basic.
>

Its one of the least used constructs in Python, I think, and leads to
periodic statements like this on the list where people who think they know
all about Python suddenly see it and go WTF :)

But in Python, all loops have an "else" clause that is fired when the loop
terminates-- but *only* if it terminates normally, where 'normally' is
basically, 'if you don't use break to exit the loop prematurely'.

It allows you to do certain things in a way which is (arguably, and I so
don't want to start an argument about this) a bit cleaner, where the normal
method would require a flag or some such. For example, if you need want to
loop over a sequence to test to see if they all match some criteria, you can
use a for..else, or some flag variable.


--S
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From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Feb  4 11:46:27 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:46:27 -0800
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <hkesl4$s9n$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>	<hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>	<d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkesl4$s9n$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6AF9E3.6020403@islandtraining.com>

Gerard Flanagan wrote:
>
>>     On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>
>>         I want to calculate areas.
>>         like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is 
>> '1.228370'
>>
>>         similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius 
>> '1' and
>>         calculate the area common to all.
>>         The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is
>>         there
>>         any other approach possible.
>>
>>
>
> A brute force approach - create a grid of small squares and calculate 
> which squares are in all circles. I don't know whether it is any 
> better than monte-carlo: 

That's just what the monte-carlo method is -- except the full family of 
monte-carlo methods can be quite sophisticated, including being more 
general (pseudo or quasi random points instead of a regular grid) and 
can provide a theoretical basis for calculating the rate of convergence, 
and so on.

Gary Herron



> for two circles, delta=0.001 takes about a minute and delta=0.0001 is 
> still running after 30 minutes :-)
>
> 1.22
> 1.2281
> 1.22834799999
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> import math
>
> class Circle:
>
>     def __init__(self, x, y, r=1):
>         self.x = float(x)
>         self.y = float(y)
>         self.r = float(r)
>
>     def contains(self, a, b):
>         return math.sqrt((self.x-a)**2 + (self.y-b)**2) <= self.r
>
> class Grid:
>
>     def __init__(self, circles):
>         self.X1 = min(c.x-c.r for c in circles)
>         self.Y1 = max(c.y+c.r for c in circles)
>         self.X2 = max(c.x+c.r for c in circles)
>         self.Y2 = min(c.y-c.r for c in circles)
>         self.circles = circles
>
>     def iter_boxes(self, delta):
>         X2 = self.X2
>         Y2 = self.Y2
>         a = self.X1
>         while a < X2:
>             a += delta
>             b = self.Y1
>             while b > Y2:
>                 b -= delta
>                 #print a, b
>                 yield a, b
>
>     def intersection(self, delta=0.1):
>         S = 0
>         s = delta**2 #box area
>         circles = self.circles
>         for a, b in self.iter_boxes(delta):
>             if all(c.contains(a, b) for c in circles):
>                 S += s
>         return S
>
>
> c = Circle(0, 1)
>
> assert c.contains(0, 1)
> assert c.contains(0, 1.5)
> assert c.contains(math.sqrt(2)/2, math.sqrt(2)/2)
> assert c.contains(0, 2)
> assert not c.contains(0, 2.01)
> assert not c.contains(0, 2.1)
> assert not c.contains(0, 3)
>
> circles = [
>         Circle(0, 0),
>         Circle(0, 1),
> ]
>
> g = Grid(circles)
>
> print '-'*30
> print g.intersection()
> print g.intersection(0.01)
> print g.intersection(0.001)
> print g.intersection(0.0001)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>



From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Feb  4 11:46:47 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:46:47 +0000
Subject: Refreshing of urllib.urlopen()
References: <mailman.1879.1265255007.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.04.16.46.46.906000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:33:08 -0600, Michael Gruenstaeudl wrote:

> I am fairly new to Python and need advice on the urllib.urlopen()  
> function. The website I am trying to open automatically refreshes  
> after 5 seconds and remains stable thereafter. With  
> urllib.urlopen().read() I can only read the initial but not the  
> refreshed page. How can I access the refreshed page via  
> urlopen().read()? I have already tried to intermediate with  
> time.sleep() before invoking .read() (see below), but this does not  
> work.

In all probability, the server is instructing the browser to load a
different URL via either a Refresh: header or a <meta http-equiv="refresh">
tag in the page. You will have to retrieve that information then issue a
request for the new URL.

It might even be redirecting via JavaScript, in which case, you lose (it's
possible to handle this case, but it's difficult).



From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Feb  4 12:02:23 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:02:23 +0000
Subject: read a process output with subprocess.Popen
References: <fe2fedf6-b1a9-497f-a174-b7479d7941fc@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.04.17.02.22.188000@nowhere.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 04:28:20 -0800, Ashok Prabhu wrote:

> I m trying a read the output of a process which is running
> continuously with subprocess.Popen. However the readline() method
> hangs for the process to finish. Please let me know if the following
> code can be made to work with subprocess.Popen with threads or queues.
> I tried a lot of methods but to no avail. It would be great if someone
> can make it work.

This is an issue with grep, not Python per se.

By default, stdout (in the C library) is line-buffered if it refers to a
TTY, and block-buffered otherwise (e.g. if it refers to a pipe). grep
doesn't change the default buffering, so when it's stdout is a pipe, its
output is written in 4K blocks.

If you only need this to work with GNU grep, you can use the
--line-buffered switch to force stdout to be flushed after each line.

If it needs to be portable, you can implement the grep part in Python
(i.e. read p1.stdout and ignore any lines which don't contain a given
string or which don't match a given regex).



From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 12:22:27 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:22:27 -0600
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com> <7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com> <7svh39F8vvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87636c531o.fsf@castleamber.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:

> Am 04.02.10 01:42, schrieb John Bokma:

[..]

>> Maybe you should think about what happens if someone posts:
>> <img src="http://example.com/item_delete?id=123">  to a popular forum...
>
> And the difference to posting
>
> from urrlib2 import open
> from urllib import encode
>
> open("http://example.com/item_delete", data=encode([("id", "123")]))
>
> to that same public "hacker" forum is exactly what?

Imagine that a user of example.com, logged in at example.com (i.e. with
a valid session ID in a cookie), visits the aforementioned (by me)
forum, and that he has an item 123. It will be deleted.

> If your webapp happens to allow item_delete to be called without
> authentication & authorization, then *that's* your problem.

You now understand that *with* a & a a GET request can be *still* harmful?

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From grflanagan at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 12:24:37 2010
From: grflanagan at gmail.com (Gerard Flanagan)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:24:37 +0000
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <4B6AF9E3.6020403@islandtraining.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>	<hkejus$lmq$1@ger.gmane.org>	<d4ab53de1002040619y799b7a5bga4e6feeced4ee659@mail.gmail.com>	<hkesl4$s9n$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6AF9E3.6020403@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <hkevsk$9gp$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gary Herron wrote:
> Gerard Flanagan wrote:
>>
>> A brute force approach - create a grid of small squares and calculate 
>> which squares are in all circles. I don't know whether it is any 
>> better than monte-carlo: 
> 
> That's just what the monte-carlo method is -- except the full family of 
> monte-carlo methods can be quite sophisticated, including being more 
> general (pseudo or quasi random points instead of a regular grid) and 
> can provide a theoretical basis for calculating the rate of convergence, 
> and so on.
> 

I would have said a Monte Carlo method necessarily involves random 
sampling in some shape or form, no? (Casinos, Chance etc..) And as I've 
previously understood Monte Carlo Integration, the technique involves 
rather the ratio "hits/total sample" rather than the sum of small areas. 
That's how I remember it, at least - it's been a while though.

Regards

G.F



From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 12:26:26 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:26:26 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87wrytdirw.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<9e80909d-906c-466b-b9cb-77400a42ee7e@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y6j83oal.fsf@castleamber.com>

Marius Gedminas <mgedmin at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 4, 1:03?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> > I can explain all of Python in an hour;
>>
>> OK, in that case I would say give it a go. Put it on YouTube, or write a
>> blog post about it (or post it here). I am sure you will help a lot of
>> people that way.
>
> Someone already did: "Advanced Python or Understanding Python"
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549
> (76 minutes).
>
> Worth watching.

Thanks, I will. And let you know if it succeeds at "explain all of
Python in 76 minutes". It's not a fair test, since I am not new to
Python, but let me see first ;-)

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Feb  4 12:27:16 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:27:16 -0500
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B0374.8060400@ieee.org>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> I want to calculate areas.
> like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
>
> similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
> calculate the area common to all.
> The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there any
> other approach possible.
>
>   
>
You start with a list of circles, each having center (a,b), and radius 
(r).  As you stated the problem, r is always 1, but I'll keep the 
algorithm general.

This is untested, and probably contains typos, at least.

I would do it with successively smaller squares.  A square can be 
described using center coordinates (x,y) , and length (s) of a side.  
Each square can have three states:  not included, partially included, 
and fully included. 

You build a list of squares, starting with one, the bounding square for 
the first circle.

For each square in the list, you go through all the circles (each with 
center a,b, and radius r), and for each circle decide if the square is 
entirely within the circle, or partially.  If it's fully included in all 
of them, you add its area to the the accumulator, and drop it from your 
list.   if it's not included at all in one of them, you just drop it 
from the list.  (Note, be careful about modifying a list you're 
iterating through -- make a copy)

After a pass through the list,  the accumulator is a lower-bound for the 
area, and the accumulator plus the areas of all the squares is an upper 
bound.   If these are close enough together, you terminate.

Otherwise you take the remaining squares in the list, split each into 
four pieces, and end up with a list 4 times as long.  And repeat the 
loop, checking each square against each circle.


The only remaining question is how you decide for a given circle and a 
given square which of the three states it's in.  And it turns out you 
can be pretty approximate in this, and it'll still converge.  So you can 
take a distance between (a,b) and (x,y), and compare it to r-s/2  and to 
r+(s*0.707106781187).  If it's greater than r+s*0.707106781187, no 
intersection.  If it's less than r-s/2, then the square's entirely inside.

Note that I used  0.707106781187 above, but you'd actually use sqr(0.5) 
to whatever precision you needed.  And if it's convenient to round it, 
round it upwards;  again it won't affect the result.  I doubt if it 
would matter in Python code, but you could even do the whole thing in 
integers (avoiding the sqrt for distance calc), if you were careful 
about the bounding formulas.  That's premature optimization, however.

HTH,
DaveA





From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 12:49:21 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:49:21 -0600
Subject: YAML
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <87tytw3n8e.fsf@castleamber.com>

Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:

> In article <87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_ at castleamber.com>,
>  John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>> Lou Pecora <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
>> 
>> > That's a pretty accurate description of how I transitioned to Python 
>> > from C and Fortran.
>> 
>> Not C, but C++ (but there are also C implementations): YAML, see:
>> http://code.google.com/p/yaml-cpp/wiki/HowToParseADocument
>> 
>> I use YAML now and then with Perl for both reading/writing data and for
>> debugging purposes (YAML is quite human readable, for programmers at least)
>> 
>> Of course there is also YAML support for Python:
>> http://pyyaml.org/.
>
> Well, that looks a bit more complicated than I would like, but maybe 
> it's doing more stuff than I can grok.  Here's what I needed and how I 
> did it in Python:
>
> # Make some variables
> x=1.234e-8
> y=2
> astr="An output string...whatever"
> z=4.5+1j*1.3456  # a complex number
>
> # Output them to a file already opened as fp
> outlist=[x, y, astr, z]
> repvars= repr(outlist)+"\n"
> fp.write(repvars)
>
> # Reading same list in:
> instr=fp.readline()
> inlist=eval(instr)
> x1,y1,astr1,z1= inlist
>
>
> That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous 
> collection of variables. I can add more variables, shuffle the order, 
> whatever without messing with formatting, etc. That's pretty easy for me 
> and it's easy for anyone to see and understand what's being done.  Not 
> trying to start an argument, just showing how the former messasge I was 
> replying to made a good point about Python's way of doing things and the 
> effort to shake off old habits from other languages.

My C++ is rusty to say the least, so I can't give you an example in C++,
and the C++ version will be longer than the Python version for
sure. I use YAML, YAML::Syck to be precise, now and then in Perl. In
Perl, if $data is a reference to an arbitrary (complex) datastructure:

DumpFile( 'filename', $data ); 

writes it out and

$data = LoadFile( 'filename' );

reads it back in.

Since YAML is to some extent human readable, I now and then use it for
debugging purposes over Data::Dumper, also because the output is more
compact, e.g.

die Dump $data;

Personally I think it's good to be aware of YAML, since it's supported
by several languages and it should in general be possible to exchange
the generated YAML between them. 

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb  4 13:07:39 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:07:39 +0100
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <87636c531o.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<87iqadde68.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<7svh39F8vvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <87636c531o.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <7t0gndFu21U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 04.02.10 18:22, schrieb John Bokma:
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  writes:
>
>> Am 04.02.10 01:42, schrieb John Bokma:
>
> [..]
>
>>> Maybe you should think about what happens if someone posts:
>>> <img src="http://example.com/item_delete?id=123">   to a popular forum...
>>
>> And the difference to posting
>>
>> from urrlib2 import open
>> from urllib import encode
>>
>> open("http://example.com/item_delete", data=encode([("id", "123")]))
>>
>> to that same public "hacker" forum is exactly what?
>
> Imagine that a user of example.com, logged in at example.com (i.e. with
> a valid session ID in a cookie), visits the aforementioned (by me)
> forum, and that he has an item 123. It will be deleted.

The webapp must be actually preventing the processing of GET-requests 
for the aciton in question. This isn't the case by default for many of 
them, in fact at least e.g. TurboGears, as well as PHP offer you ways to 
treat GET and POSTvars the exact same way. So unless the programmer is 
aware of this potential problem, it won't help.

And in the same way one can embed a form with a post-action that leads 
to the full http://example.com-url into an external page. So it is 
equally as dangerous. Yes, links are easier, no doubt about that. But 
POST doesn't magically make you safe from those kinds of attacks.

The only way to prevent this are short-lived sessions, or action-tokens 
of some kind, as Paul mentioned before.

Diez


From python at rcn.com  Thu Feb  4 13:18:23 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:18:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
References: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hkd83f$dc2$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <63678d2b-2571-42fb-aa9b-90737cea561e@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

> >For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team,
> >http://saucelabs.com/about/team, is hosting two free tutorial open
> >space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.

[Aahz]
> Congrats on the new job!

Thanks.  I'm really enjoying working with Jim Baker
and Frank Wierzbicki.


Raymond



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb  4 13:23:35 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 4 Feb 2010 18:23:35 GMT
Subject: Building a multiline string
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D15BB1829C71duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

lallous <lallous at lgwm.org> wrote:

> Now should I be using method 2 or 3 in production code?

Also Method1a:

# Method1a
x = ("line1" + # can use comments!
     "line2"+
     "line3")

Use Method1a or Method3 as you prefer: either of these generates a single 
string constant. Method2 is dumb.


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 13:55:14 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:55:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Common area of circles
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1906.1265292092.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e67c2fa7-de21-486b-9a29-02538cfbbc32@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> I want to calculate areas.
> like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
>
> similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
> calculate the area common to all.
> The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there
> any other approach possible.

How much accuracy do you need?  How fast does the algorithm need to
be?  How many circles are typically involved?  Is the intersection
necessarily non-empty for the configurations of circles that you use?
How much code are you prepared to write?  How much mathematics do you
want to use?

Besides the Monte-Carlo and grid-based approaches already mentioned, I
see a couple of other possibilities:

(1) It should be entirely possible to do this analytically.  The hard
part would be identifying the intersection points that form the
vertices of the intersection (and especially, doing this robustly in
the face of numerical errors and triple intersections or near-triple
intersections).  Once you've got the vertices, it should be
straightforward to compute the area:  compute the area of the polygon
given by the convex hull of the vertices, then add on the extra areas
for the segments bounded by the (straight) sides of the polygon and
the corresponding outer arcs.

(2) For a numerical approach that might be slightly better than the 2d
brute-force approaches described by others:  make use of the fact that
the intersection is convex.  Pick a point P in the intersection (if it
exists:  finding such a point is an issue in itself).  For each angle
t, 0 <= t <= 2*pi, define f(t) to be the distance from P to the
boundary of the region, in the direction of the angle t.  We always
have 0 <= f(t) <= 1, so f(t) can be quickly and accurately computed
with a bisection search.  Now find the definite integral of 0.5 *
(f(t))**2, as t goes from 0 to 2*pi, using your favourite quadrature
method (but avoid methods that would be very sensitive to continuity
of derivatives:  f(t) will be continuous, but f'(t) will not).
Simpson's rule is probably good enough.

Good luck!

--
Mark


From tompelka at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 14:05:51 2010
From: tompelka at gmail.com (Tomas Pelka)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:05:51 +0100
Subject: how to run part of my python code as root
Message-ID: <4B6B1A8F.1000504@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hey,

is there possibility how to run part of my code (function for example)
as superuser.

Or only way how to do this is create a wrapper and run is with Popen
through sudo (but I have to configure sudo to run "whole" python as root).

Thanks for advice.

- --
Tom

Key fingerprint = 06C0 23C6 9EB7 0761 9807  65F4 7F6F 7EAB 496B 28AA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAktrGoYACgkQf29+q0lrKKqaNACdEvfg+g0n3DzFr/7R33y2Nesy
hK8An3ZlpUEEibf0Q1wVET/KpXnsv/PO
=JKro
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 14:19:59 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 00:49:59 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <e67c2fa7-de21-486b-9a29-02538cfbbc32@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<50697b2c1002040341u3dd8d970ib314bff88e33b75c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040347r5bdec35crcea5f3c42eab8b55@mail.gmail.com> 
	<2d56febf1002040354n5aad8951p939b572533e5c211@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002040405x80c0855if8e8d0301857d1f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1906.1265292092.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<e67c2fa7-de21-486b-9a29-02538cfbbc32@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002041119r4c1a57bam80d0ef6a09e23f15@mail.gmail.com>

maximum number of circles = 10**6
runtime <= 5 sec
center of circles , -1000<=xi,yi<=1000 (float) [for int it was easier]
intersection is there and the area will be non-zero (it can always be
checked if intersection is taking place and if no, then area = 0.000000)
This was a programming contest problem, so code will be short
Maths, I'm eager to use. I attempted this problem because I saw scope of
maths in it. (I learnt python while doing ProjectEuler because C/C++ was
cumbersome for PE IMHO). I tried monte-carlo, but the time-limit exceeds if
i go for required accuracy. The same happens with grid approach.


On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Mark Dickinson <dickinsm at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2/4/2010 7:05 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> > I want to calculate areas.
> > like for two circles (0, 0) and (0, 1) : the output is '1.228370'
> >
> > similarly my aim is to take 'n' co-ordinates, all of radius '1' and
> > calculate the area common to all.
> > The best I got was monte-carlo methods which is inefficient. Is there
> > any other approach possible.
>
> How much accuracy do you need?  How fast does the algorithm need to
> be?  How many circles are typically involved?  Is the intersection
> necessarily non-empty for the configurations of circles that you use?
> How much code are you prepared to write?  How much mathematics do you
> want to use?
>
> Besides the Monte-Carlo and grid-based approaches already mentioned, I
> see a couple of other possibilities:
>
> (1) It should be entirely possible to do this analytically.  The hard
> part would be identifying the intersection points that form the
> vertices of the intersection (and especially, doing this robustly in
> the face of numerical errors and triple intersections or near-triple
> intersections).  Once you've got the vertices, it should be
> straightforward to compute the area:  compute the area of the polygon
> given by the convex hull of the vertices, then add on the extra areas
> for the segments bounded by the (straight) sides of the polygon and
> the corresponding outer arcs.
>
> (2) For a numerical approach that might be slightly better than the 2d
> brute-force approaches described by others:  make use of the fact that
> the intersection is convex.  Pick a point P in the intersection (if it
> exists:  finding such a point is an issue in itself).  For each angle
> t, 0 <= t <= 2*pi, define f(t) to be the distance from P to the
> boundary of the region, in the direction of the angle t.  We always
> have 0 <= f(t) <= 1, so f(t) can be quickly and accurately computed
> with a bisection search.  Now find the definite integral of 0.5 *
> (f(t))**2, as t goes from 0 to 2*pi, using your favourite quadrature
> method (but avoid methods that would be very sensitive to continuity
> of derivatives:  f(t) will be continuous, but f'(t) will not).
> Simpson's rule is probably good enough.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --
> Mark
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 14:21:30 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:21:30 -0300
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<4bbf7fb21002040740x66f203c7x57099d07de1fe30@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7map4e8x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:40:41 -0300, Hidura <hidura at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Thanks, I read it and try to put my code in the correct form, but now  
> give
> me another error, inside the Writer Package says:
> "ValueError: Attempted relative import in non-package", if somebody  
> knows a
> clue of how fix it i will glad to read opinions. [?]

You say that Writer is a package, but apparently Python disagrees. A  
package is not just "a directory containing an __init__.py file", this is  
half the truth. Python must be *aware* of such file, and this happens when  
you import the package.

If you directly run a script from inside a package, Python does not know  
that it belongs to a package, and treats it as a simple, lonely script. In  
that case, relative imports won't work.

Put the "main" script (the one that you directly execute) outside the  
package. It can be as small as this, if you want:

 from some.package import main
main()

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 14:48:35 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:48:35 -0800
Subject: Selenium/SauceLabs OpenSpace at Pycon
References: <f4932015-d9e7-47f8-8525-feaa7486330a@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hkd83f$dc2$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xwryssrxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> Raymond Hettinger  <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>>For those who are interested, the Sauce Labs team,
>>http://saucelabs.com/about/team, is hosting two free tutorial open
>>space sessions at Pycon in Atlanta.
>
> Congrats on the new job!

Yes, cool!  I don't recognize several of these logos, but maybe Sauce
can help:

    http://aasi.ebm.fi/5742/browsers.jpg

;-)


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 14:56:57 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:56:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to run part of my python code as root
References: <mailman.1917.1265310357.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a79c4871-efcc-47d0-bcb9-96e97e1d03c4@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 2:05?pm, Tomas Pelka <tompe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hey,
>
> is there possibility how to run part of my code (function for example)
> as superuser.
>
> Or only way how to do this is create a wrapper and run is with Popen
> through sudo (but I have to configure sudo to run "whole" python as root).

In decreasing order of desirability:
1. Find a way to not need root access (e.g. grant another user or
group access to whatever resource you're trying to access).
2. Isolate the stuff that needs root access into a small helper
program that does strict validation of all input (including arguments,
environment, etc); when needed, run that process under sudo or
similar.
2a. Have some sort of well-verified helper daemon that has access to
the resource you need and mediates use of that resource.
3. Run the process as root, using seteuid() to switch between user and
root privs.  The entire program must be heavily verified and do strict
validation of all inputs.  Any attacker who gets control over the
process can easily switch to root privs and do damage.  This is
generally a bad idea.


From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 15:15:05 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:15:05 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87wrytdirw.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<9e80909d-906c-466b-b9cb-77400a42ee7e@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87bpg4ahbq.fsf@castleamber.com>

Marius Gedminas <mgedmin at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 4, 1:03?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> > I can explain all of Python in an hour;
>>
>> OK, in that case I would say give it a go. Put it on YouTube, or write a
>> blog post about it (or post it here). I am sure you will help a lot of
>> people that way.
>
> Someone already did: "Advanced Python or Understanding Python"
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7760178035196894549
> (76 minutes).
>
> Worth watching.

Certainly worth watching (I learned some stuff), but in my opinion you
/need to have some Python experience/ to be able to follow so no
(IMO), someone didn't do it already.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb  4 15:50:29 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:50:29 +1300
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1888.1265264851.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkfbul$3g5$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> But the associated program might change the current directory - that's 
> not the case with the default associations created by the Python 
> installer, but one should verify this.
> To the OP: please create this small test script
> 
> import os
> print("curdir=", os.getcwd())
> print("__file__=", __file__)
> input()
> 
> and post what you get when you double-click on it.
> 
> Also, from the command line, execute:
> 
> D:\temp>reg query HKCR\.py
> 
> ! REG.EXE VERSION 3.0
> 
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py
>     <Sin nombre>        REG_SZ  Python.File
>     Content Type        REG_SZ  text/plain
> 
> HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py\PersistentHandler

I'm interested in this, because I'm using Windows XP, and when I execute this 
command I see the first part but not the second (with PersistentHandler).  Is 
this related to the fact that when I double-click on a .py file the command 
window disappears after the execution is completed?


From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Feb  4 15:55:21 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:55:21 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
Message-ID: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>

Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.

 

--
Alan


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb  4 15:55:44 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:55:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 3:39?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
> > On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>
> >> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
> >> all of Python in an hour.
>
> > With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable chance of
> > your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
> > It's just exposition.
>
> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't explained it.
>

On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
than that time to truly understand everything that was said.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb  4 16:03:06 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Feb 2010 21:03:06 GMT
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:57:59 -0500, Lou Pecora wrote:

> Well, that looks a bit more complicated than I would like, but maybe
> it's doing more stuff than I can grok.  Here's what I needed and how I
> did it in Python:
[...]
> # Reading same list in:
> instr=fp.readline()
> inlist=eval(instr)
> x1,y1,astr1,z1= inlist
> 
> 
> That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous
> collection of variables. 

Easy, but also quick and dirty -- good enough for small scripts, but not 
really good enough for production applications.


> I can add more variables, shuffle the order,
> whatever without messing with formatting, etc. 

This is nice and easy. But there are at least four catches:


* you can't safely treat the data file as human-editable
(although a sufficiently careful and Python-aware user could edit it)

* you can't use any data that isn't a built-in, or that contains 
something that is not a built-in

* there may be reliability issues with floats - you're at the mercy of 
changes to the underlying repr of float objects, and it almost certainly 
will blow up in your face if you get an inf or nan (at least prior to 
Python 2.6)

* you're using eval, which is a security risk if you can't trust the 
source of the data file.

However, be aware that neither marshal nor pickle guarantees to be safe 
against malicious data either. The docs for both warn against using them 
on untrusted data. YAML or JSON *might* be safer, I haven't looked.



> That's pretty easy for me
> and it's easy for anyone to see and understand what's being done.  Not
> trying to start an argument, just showing how the former messasge I was
> replying to made a good point about Python's way of doing things and the
> effort to shake off old habits from other languages.

These are all good points. 




-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb  4 16:14:33 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:14:33 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.

I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window.
Set sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__'
In 3.1 idle shell:

 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.argv
['']
 >>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
 >>> sys.argv
['abc', 'dev']

I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.

Terry Jan Reedy



From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 16:18:53 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:18:53 -0600
Subject: YAML
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <877hqsaede.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> However, be aware that neither marshal nor pickle guarantees to be safe 
> against malicious data either. The docs for both warn against using them 
> on untrusted data. YAML or JSON *might* be safer, I haven't looked.

Regarding malicious data, from the Loading YAML section of PyYAML:

   Warning: It is not safe to call yaml.load with any data received from
   an untrusted source! yaml.load is as powerful as pickle.load and so
   may call any Python function. Check the yaml.safe_load function
   though.

http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAMLDocumentation#LoadingYAML

yaml.safe_load however, limits to simple Python objects and Python
objects you mark as safe.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 16:28:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkfe63$1du$1@ger.gmane.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
> 
> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window.
> Set sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__'
> In 3.1 idle shell:
> 
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.argv
> ['']
>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>> sys.argv
> ['abc', 'dev']
> 
> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
> 
As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Feb  4 16:37:10 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:37:10 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1920.1265318105.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qefmm51d3m6k1fa39vs85kkroubfls3oic@4ax.com>

Yes, that is what I was trying to do.  I need to puzzle a bit on the
solution, being a newbie.  Thanks!

--
Alan


From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Feb  4 16:47:09 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:47:09 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1920.1265318105.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qefmm51d3m6k1fa39vs85kkroubfls3oic@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7rfmm5h99dsfico46fnbrkjbouujli49a7@4ax.com>

Terry,

CLICK, the light just came on.  Knowing that it is writable, I can
look at the length to determine whether there are any arguments.  If
not, I can switch to interactive input within the program, and input
the values that way.  A few easy extra lines.   Whatever works.
Thanks!!

--
Alan


From xahlee at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:26:02 2010
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:26:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

2010-02-04

Hi Steve,

thank you for the reply.

I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
made is all i asked for.

I have a lot things to say about the various political struggle that
one sees everyday in just about every communication channels that are
predominantly young male groups, of relatively few people, in online
posting forums, ircs, online massive multiplayer games... as you may
know, the quarrels, accusations, bans, happen every hour.

But to be concrete and constructive, i would suggest that in
freenode's python irc channel:

? when a admin bans someone, the admin needs to tell the person the
reason, and not in some rude way. (a single sentence will do.)

? The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
e.g. ?repeatedly asking same question?, ?continously raising
controversial issues?, ?refused to use paste bin when requested? will
do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
?ban'd for trolling?, ?annoying others?, are not a meaningful reason.)

? additionally, i would suggest that bans be temporary. The following
period seems a good start: 5 min ban, 1 hour ban, 1 day ban, 1 week
ban, 1 month ban. Each can be executed according to severity per the
admin's judgement. There should be no permanent ban, unless it's
machine generated commercial spam.

Thank you.

For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
be found on my website, search for ?ban xah lee?.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


On Feb 2, 2:23?pm, "Steve Holden, Chairman, PSF" <chair... at python.org>
wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> > This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
> > freenode.net.
>
> > Here's a log:
>
> > 2010-02-02
>
> > (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL |http://pound-python.org/
> > | It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
> >http://paste.pocoo.org/| Tutorial:http://docs.python.org/tut/| FAQ:
> >http://effbot.org/pyfaq/| New Programmer? Readhttp://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
> > | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
> > #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
> > offtopic
> > (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
> > actually.
> > (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
> > (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
> > (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
> > (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
> > etc) right is quite tricky
> > (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
> > wondering whats up with the python verison :D
> > (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
> > (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)
>
> > ---------------
>
> > I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
> > 2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
> > freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.
>
> > ? Xah
> > ?http://xahlee.org/
>
> > ?
>
> Frankly, Xah Lee, I find it ironic that you see fit to complain about
> abuse of the IRC channel when you have apparently felt free to ignore
> the many complaints about your behavior on this and other newsgroups
> over many years.
>
> "As ye sew, so shall ye reap". I imagine that your reputation has
> preceded you, and that dash (whom I *do* know) is simply looking to keep
> a well-known nuisance from bothering the rest of the users on the channel.
>
> For the present my sympathies are all with him. The PSF will, however,
> investigate this issue and I will report back to you off-list in due course.
>
> regards
> ?Steve
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ?Chairman, Python Software Foundation
> The Python Community Conference ?http://python.org/psf/
> PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21 ? ? ? ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Watch PyCon on video now! ? ? ? ? ?http://pycon.blip.tv/


From news123 at free.fr  Thu Feb  4 17:34:20 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:34:20 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
Message-ID: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6

srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')

I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second


After changing to
srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')

I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.

So it seems, that under windows 7 the host name lookup occurs for every
RPC call (which is of course necessary for long running processes, as
the target host might change it's ip during the scripts execution)

For my use cases however I could live with one IP-address lookup at the
beginning of the script.


I wonder now about how I could deal with virtual web servers.

( a web server running with one ip-adress and one port, which behaves
differntly depending on the host name of the url request)

I'm just curious, as currently I don't have to access virtual servers
via xmlrpc,

Is there any way to 'pre-lookup the IP address', and to keep the host
name in the http POST request?


thanks for any ideas



N







From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Feb  4 17:47:21 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:47:21 +1100
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<4bbf7fb21002040740x66f203c7x57099d07de1fe30@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1919.1265311302.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871vh0mxdy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

> If you directly run a script from inside a package, Python does not
> know that it belongs to a package, and treats it as a simple, lonely
> script. In that case, relative imports won't work.

Which I consider to be a bug. Fortunately, it's already addressed in PEP
366 <URL:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0366/>. Unfortunately, it
involves more hackish boilerplate at the top of the program, and is only
available in Python 2.6+.

-- 
 \              ?Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does |
  `\           knowledge.? ?Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Thu Feb  4 17:52:03 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:52:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Background Zones in Pylab Plot
References: <1eaf6046-db41-44b5-8c9e-b7a15e4cf078@30g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9e5eaf-2006-4dfe-8498-a544c09a8584@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <de9a63f9-6f0d-4569-b3d2-fc7d5d1bb003@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 10:50?pm, CM <cmpyt... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:49?am, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
>
> > I would like to add background zones in pylab plots. Colored sections
> > of the background that the curves pass through. Is this possible? My
> > google searches don't turn up anything but maybe my search terms
> > aren't the right ones.
>
> > Thanks
>
> If you look at the matplotlib gallery, I think there may be some
> images
> that show something like what you want, and then you can look at the
> code. ?It's here:
>
> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/gallery.html
>
> HTH,
> Che

That helped. There should be something in there I can use.
Thank you


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:56:44 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:56:44 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-04 14:55 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 3, 3:39 pm, Steve Holden<st... at holdenweb.com>  wrote:
>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>
>>>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
>>>> all of Python in an hour.
>>
>>> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable chance of
>>> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
>>> It's just exposition.
>>
>> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't explained it.
>
> On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
> would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
> than that time to truly understand everything that was said.

Like I said, that's exposition, not explanation. There is an important 
distinction between the two words. Simply providing information is not 
explanation. If it takes four hours for your audience to understand it, then you 
explained it in four hours no matter when you stopped talking.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From senhor.abrantes at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:57:53 2010
From: senhor.abrantes at gmail.com (joao abrantes)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:57:53 +0000
Subject: Pixel control
Message-ID: <880fa1d41002041457v44b7c4ddobe79db5fc7c9ebd5@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone. For example i am using a screen resolution of 800x600 is it
possible to make python control the color of the pixels? For example paint
the pixel (100,200) in red! And it would stay red when i am seeing a
webpage, a movie, playing a game... etc.. Regards, Jo?o Abrantes.
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From david at boddie.org.uk  Thu Feb  4 17:59:44 2010
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:59:44 +0100
Subject: PyQt4 designer custom properties - combo box style
References: <f96f074b-69c9-4aca-8a81-483282d8f6eb@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkfjh0$156$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>

On Tuesday 02 February 2010 22:25, Andrew wrote:

> I am creating custom widgets for the PyQt4 Designer. I can create
> custom properties, but I'm looking for how to create a custom property
> that has a combo box drop down. I've seen them in the example widgets
> and tried following them, but they are using pre-defined items to
> populate their property, so it's not a very clear example of how to
> get the combo box property to work.

Can you explain a bit more about what you have seen and what you are
trying to do. Are you trying to create a property that is treated
specially by Designer or do you want to get the data for the combo
box from somewhere else?

> Is there any other examples or help for this kind of setup?

Have you seen this article?

  http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qq/qq26-pyqtdesigner.html

David


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb  4 18:01:02 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Feb 2010 23:01:02 GMT
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>> 
>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>> 
>>>>> import sys
>>>>> sys.argv
>> ['']
>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>> sys.argv
>> ['abc', 'dev']
>> 
>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>> 
> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?

[scratches head]

Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it 
is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.

Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering 
the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering 
these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will 
cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the 
absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that 
sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having 
been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see 
before commenting publicly.


-- 
Steven


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 18:02:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:02:53 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B521D.6050408@holdenweb.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> 2010-02-04
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> thank you for the reply.
> 
> I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
> newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
> made is all i asked for.
> 
OK, in that case I won't trouble anyone else about it.

> I have a lot things to say about the various political struggle that
> one sees everyday in just about every communication channels that are
> predominantly young male groups, of relatively few people, in online
> posting forums, ircs, online massive multiplayer games... as you may
> know, the quarrels, accusations, bans, happen every hour.
> 
I understand that the diversity of the various channels available to
Python users (and indeed of the Python community overall) is not as high
as it could be. This does from time to time lead to inappropriate behaviors.

I suspect dash kicked you off #python simply because of the reputation
you have established on comp.lang.python, but of course I cannot speak
for him.

> But to be concrete and constructive, i would suggest that in
> freenode's python irc channel:
> 
> ? when a admin bans someone, the admin needs to tell the person the
> reason, and not in some rude way. (a single sentence will do.)
> 
That would, I agree, be appropriate.

> ? The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
> name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
> means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
> particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
> the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
> with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
> e.g. ?repeatedly asking same question?, ?continously raising
> controversial issues?, ?refused to use paste bin when requested? will
> do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
> ?ban'd for trolling?, ?annoying others?, are not a meaningful reason.)
> 
This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
case your suggestions above seem reasonable).

> ? additionally, i would suggest that bans be temporary. The following
> period seems a good start: 5 min ban, 1 hour ban, 1 day ban, 1 week
> ban, 1 month ban. Each can be executed according to severity per the
> admin's judgement. There should be no permanent ban, unless it's
> machine generated commercial spam.
> 
Again, this is probably over-formal for the current levels of banning,
but a reasonable idea in principle.

> Thank you.
> 
> For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
> written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
> detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
> freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
> be found on my website, search for ?ban xah lee?.
> 
Xah, your opinions are I think pretty well-known around here. I
understand that you consider yourself an authority on netiquette, but as
I mentioned in my last response I have personally observed you on many
occasions indulging in inappropriate behavior such as cross-posting
irrelevant material to many newsgroups at the same time. It is actions
like that, combined with your use of intemperate and abusive language,
that caused you to get banned before you had chance to say much.

It's a bit like the boy who cried 'wolf'. People see you doing these
things, and so when you appear on an IRC channel where this is known
about you get banned as a pre-emptive measure.

I have discussed this matter with dash, and he has agreed not to kick
you off without reason the next time you join #python. This will only
last as long as your behavior remains acceptable, so please don't abuse
the privilege I have won back for you. If you do, that will make me feel
(and look) like a real dick, and get you banned again straight away.

regards
 Steve

>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> On Feb 2, 2:23 pm, "Steve Holden, Chairman, PSF" <chair... at python.org>
> wrote:
>> Xah Lee wrote:
>>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>>> freenode.net.
>>> Here's a log:
>>> 2010-02-02
>>> (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL |http://pound-python.org/
>>> | It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
>>> http://paste.pocoo.org/| Tutorial:http://docs.python.org/tut/| FAQ:
>>> http://effbot.org/pyfaq/| New Programmer? Readhttp://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
>>> | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
>>> #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
>>> offtopic
>>> (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
>>> actually.
>>> (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
>>> (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
>>> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
>>> (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
>>> etc) right is quite tricky
>>> (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
>>> wondering whats up with the python verison :D
>>> (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
>>> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)
>>> ---------------
>>> I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
>>> 2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
>>> freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.
>>>   Xah
>>> ?http://xahlee.org/
>>> ?
>> Frankly, Xah Lee, I find it ironic that you see fit to complain about
>> abuse of the IRC channel when you have apparently felt free to ignore
>> the many complaints about your behavior on this and other newsgroups
>> over many years.
>>
>> "As ye sew, so shall ye reap". I imagine that your reputation has
>> preceded you, and that dash (whom I *do* know) is simply looking to keep
>> a well-known nuisance from bothering the rest of the users on the channel.
>>
>> For the present my sympathies are all with him. The PSF will, however,
>> investigate this issue and I will report back to you off-list in due course.
>>
>> regards
>>  Steve
>> --
>> Steve Holden        Chairman, Python Software Foundation
>> The Python Community Conference  http://python.org/psf/
>> PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21        http://us.pycon.org/
>> Watch PyCon on video now!          http://pycon.blip.tv/


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From mailings at julianmoritz.de  Thu Feb  4 18:03:08 2010
From: mailings at julianmoritz.de (Julian)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:03:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
Message-ID: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
"hidden features of Python".

I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
use python?".

For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
popular and beloved python features.

So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.

Regards
Julian


From rfritz333 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 18:10:55 2010
From: rfritz333 at gmail.com (R Fritz)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e97ff208-d08e-4934-8e38-a40d668cd116@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

My favorite feature is its readability.  It's as near to pseudo-code
as any language we have, and that's valuable in open source projects
or when I return to code to modify it.


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb  4 18:13:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 00:13:50 +0100
Subject: Stephen -- Bruce?
Message-ID: <hkfkbg$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org>

What's this about all the Stephen'ses here?

Shouldn't it be Bruce?


- Alf (wondering)


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb  4 18:20:01 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:20:01 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xk4usa8ri.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Julian <mailings at julianmoritz.de> writes:
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".

It's terrible, but all the alternatives are even worse. ;-)


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 18:29:14 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:29:14 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkfl8v$psl$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>>>
>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>> sys.argv
>>> ['']
>>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>>> sys.argv
>>> ['abc', 'dev']
>>>
>>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>>>
>> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?
> 
> [scratches head]
> 
> Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it 
> is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.
> 
> Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering 
> the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering 
> these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will 
> cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the 
> absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that 
> sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having 
> been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see 
> before commenting publicly.
> 
> 
What I meant was it sucks that IDLE has no way to fill in sys.argv as a
part of its "Run Module" functionality - something that is present in
both PythonWin and Wing IDE, for example. But then I have come to the
conclusion that IDLE doesn't fit my brain, or my brain doesn't fit it.

That sys.argv is mutable simply reflects the fact that it's a list.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Feb  4 18:36:04 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:36:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Stephen -- Bruce?
References: <hkfkbg$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <2a932e46-1b81-4a97-bbee-3bf92b3b1447@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 5:13?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> What's this about all the Stephen'ses here?
>
> Shouldn't it be Bruce?

Of course. We just call everyone Stephen to avoid confusion.

>
> - Alf (wondering)



From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 18:40:41 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:40:41 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
>
>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>>> 
>>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>>> 
>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>> sys.argv
>>> ['']
>>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>>> sys.argv
>>> ['abc', 'dev']
>>> 
>>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>>> 
>> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?
>
> [scratches head]
>
> Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it 
> is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.
>
> Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering 
> the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering 
> these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will 
> cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the 
> absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that 
> sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having 
> been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see 
> before commenting publicly.

I guess that Terry means that a solution that makes it possible to
specify in IDLE *outside* of the Python code the arguments would be
better. Hardcoding the command line arguments isn't something I would do
for testing.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb  4 18:46:52 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:46:52 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>>>> 
>>>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>>>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>>>> 
>>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>>> sys.argv
>>>> ['']
>>>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>>>> sys.argv
>>>> ['abc', 'dev']
>>>> 
>>>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>>>> 
>>> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?
>>
>> [scratches head]
>>
>> Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it 
>> is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.
>>
>> Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering 
>> the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering 
>> these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will 
>> cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the 
>> absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that 
>> sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having 
>> been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see 
>> before commenting publicly.
>
> I guess that Terry means that a solution that makes it possible to
> specify in IDLE *outside* of the Python code the arguments would be
> better. Hardcoding the command line arguments isn't something I would do
> for testing.

Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Feb  4 18:46:58 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:46:58 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>	<a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6B5C72.8080100@stoneleaf.us>

Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-04 14:55 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> On Feb 3, 3:39 pm, Steve Holden<st... at holdenweb.com>  wrote:
>>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>>> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will understand
>>>>> all of Python in an hour.
>>>
>>>> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable 
>>>> chance of
>>>> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
>>>> It's just exposition.
>>>
>>> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't 
>>> explained it.
>>
>> On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
>> would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
>> than that time to truly understand everything that was said.
> 
> Like I said, that's exposition, not explanation. There is an important 
> distinction between the two words. Simply providing information is not 
> explanation. If it takes four hours for your audience to understand it, 
> then you explained it in four hours no matter when you stopped talking.
> 

And if it takes six months?  Would you seriously say it took you six 
months to explain something because it took that long for your audience 
to understand it?

At some point you have to make the transition from person A explaining 
and person(s) B understanding -- they don't necessarily happen 
synchronously.

As a real-life example, I've read several Python books, tutorials, and 
this list for quite some time, some of which has very good explanatory 
material, and yet some of the points I didn't fully comprehend until 
much, much later.  Every time, though, it's still the same reaction:  I 
*love* Python!  :D

~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Feb  4 18:55:30 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:55:30 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>

Julian wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
> 
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
> 
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.
> 
> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
> 
> Regards
> Julian

http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/choose_python.pdf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 19:03:20 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:03:20 -0300
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.1888.1265264851.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkfbul$3g5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7mnruycx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:50:29 -0300, Gib Bogle  
<g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:

>>  Also, from the command line, execute:
>>  D:\temp>reg query HKCR\.py
>>  ! REG.EXE VERSION 3.0
>>  HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py
>>     <Sin nombre>        REG_SZ  Python.File
>>     Content Type        REG_SZ  text/plain
>>  HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\.py\PersistentHandler
>
> I'm interested in this, because I'm using Windows XP, and when I execute  
> this command I see the first part but not the second (with  
> PersistentHandler).

Sorry, I should have removed that line. This is just my setup; a normal  
Python install doesn't create that registry entry. It allows Desktop  
Search (or Windows Search, or whatever it is called nowadays; the F3 key)  
to search inside .py files (default behavior is to just ignore their  
contents).
See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309173

> Is this related to the fact that when I double-click on a .py file the  
> command window disappears after the execution is completed?

(I bet the "Persistent" word confused you.) No, as you can see, it's  
completely unrelated. AFAIK, there is no way (on XP and later at least) to  
keep a console window open after the program exited. Three choices:

- Open a cmd window and execute the script there. You may drag&drop the  
file over the window to avoid typing the full path (I think this last part  
does not work on Vista nor Win7)

- Add a raw_input() [2.x] or input() [3.x] line at the end of the script

- Rename it with a '.cmd' extension and add this line at the very top:

	@(C:\Python26\Python -x %~f0 %* || pause) && goto:EOF

(see this post by Duncan Booth last month:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/650913 )

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb  4 19:09:24 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 00:09:24 GMT
Subject: Code snippet: dualmethod descriptor
References: <0373b8b9$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1876.1265252957.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00f4e6e5$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:09:02 -0300, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:06:18 -0300, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> escribi?:
> 
>> class dualmethod(object):
[...]

> Seems useful!
> Perhaps a better place to post it would be
> <http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/>, at least it's
> easier to search.



Thank you for the encouragement. The recipe is now posted:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577030/



-- 
Steven


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 19:09:28 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:09:28 -0300
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com> <87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>  
escribi?:
> John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

>>>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.

>> I guess that Terry means that a solution that makes it possible to
>> specify in IDLE *outside* of the Python code the arguments would be
>> better. Hardcoding the command line arguments isn't something I would do
>> for testing.
>
> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.

See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb  4 19:10:52 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:10:52 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <hkfl8v$psl$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkfl8v$psl$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkfnmb$169$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/4/2010 6:29 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:28:17 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>> Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.  No problem using sys.argv
>>>>> from a Windows command line, but I have missed how you can do that
>>>>> from within IDLE, which complicates development and debugging.
>>>> I presume you mean edit, F5-run, see result in shell window. Set
>>>> sys.argv in test function or __name__=='__main__' In 3.1 idle shell:
>>>>
>>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>>> sys.argv
>>>> ['']
>>>>>>> sys.argv = ['abc','dev']
>>>>>>> sys.argv
>>>> ['abc', 'dev']
>>>>
>>>> I did not know it was writable, either, until I tried it.
>>>>
>>> As a solution, however, that sucks, wouldn't you agree?

No, see below.

>> [scratches head]
>>
>> Do you mean setting sys.argv as a solution sucks? No, I don't, I think it
>> is grand. If sys.argv was unmodifiable, *that* would suck.
>>
>> Or do you mean that trying it as a solution to the problem of answering
>> the OP's question sucks? Well, no, experimentation is good for answering
>> these sorts of questions, and I can't assume that the documentation will
>> cover every imaginable use-case, or that users will find it. In the
>> absence of any documentation stating otherwise, I would have assumed that
>> sys.argv was an ordinary list which you can modify at will, but having
>> been caught out on faulty assumptions before, I would try it and see
>> before commenting publicly.
>>
>>
> What I meant was it sucks that IDLE has no way to fill in sys.argv as a
> part of its "Run Module" functionality - something that is present in
> both PythonWin and Wing IDE, for example.

The first thing I did was to check for such an option on the run tab. 
The second thing I thought of was to suggest to OP that he file a 
feature request (which would likely take years, if ever). But then the 
test line would not be fetched from the file (unless some ##cmdline 
convention were invented), but would have to be hand-entered each time 
the editor were run. Also, a given run of a program can have only one 
command line, and changing the run line for each test case would suck. 
Then I tried sys.argv.

Why that does not suck:

A Python program, as far as I know, cannot process a command lines 
directly, but only processed command line args in the form of a list of 
strings -- sys.argv. Therefore, the need for testing is not to simulate 
a command line but to set sys.argv. I assume the programmer knows the 
mapping from command line to argv since he otherwise cannot sensibly 
proceed.

I believe it is sensible, if not recommended, to put an arg processing 
in a defined function that returns, for instance, a dict, rather than to 
do it at top-level in the main script. So in use, process_args() will be 
called in a context with sys.argv set. So let it be tested. For 
instance, something like:

def _test_arg_processing:
   arg_dict_pairs - (
     (['arg1', 'arg2'], {'speed':int('arg1'), 'range':float('arg2'}),
     (['-v'], {'verbose': True},
   )
   for args,dic in arg_dict_pairs:
     sys.argv = args
     assert process_args() == dic

Repeatable automatic testing of multiple test cases.
I just starting doing this a year ago and love it.

Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb  4 19:12:27 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:12:27 -0500
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkfnp9$169$2@ger.gmane.org>

Iterators, and in particular, generators.
A killer feature.

Terry Jan Reedy



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb  4 19:18:04 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Feb 2010 16:18:04 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkc8qn$b4i$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.1885.1265261952.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkfo3s$5bc$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1885.1265261952.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 3 Feb 2010 08:38:47 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>> In article <mailman.1585.1264743912.28905.python-list at python.org>,
>> Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>	I shall blaspheme, and suggest that maybe the language you want to
>>>use is REXX (ooREXX or Regina).
>>>
>>>	By default, ANY statement that can not be confused for a REXX
>>>language statement is sent to the currently defined command handler
>>>(Which on most OSs is equivalent to Python's os.system() call; the late
>>>Amiga, and IBM's mainframe OS had features that support defining other
>>>applications as command handlers).
>> 
>> How is that different from bash scripting?
>
>	Uhm... Does a bash script support inlining statements from some
>other language?
>
>	Python's shutil library essentially disappears in REXX as one can
>plug in the native command line statement for those functions.


But in bash scripting, you'd just use rsync or cp or rm -- maybe an
example would make clearer how REXX differs from bash.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 19:20:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:20:38 -0500
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <hkfo9b$26c$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>
> escribi?:
>> John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> 
>>>>>> On 2/4/2010 3:55 PM, Alan Biddle wrote:
>>>>>>> Just finishing my first Python (2.6 on Win XP)  program, which is
>>>>>>> working fine.  My "Duh?" question is about how to run it from within
>>>>>>> IDLE and pass it command line arguments.
> 
>>> I guess that Terry means that a solution that makes it possible to
>>> specify in IDLE *outside* of the Python code the arguments would be
>>> better. Hardcoding the command line arguments isn't something I would do
>>> for testing.
>>
>> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.
> 
> See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680
> 
So we've had a patch since April and it still didn't make it into 3.1?
That's disappointing. I wonder if there's any chance it'll get into 2.7.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb  4 19:21:07 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:21:07 +1300
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>	<hkdd1o$nib$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1877.1265253364.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdhr0$pff$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1884.1265258480.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkdlfi$ihc$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkdn06$ri8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.1888.1265264851.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkfbul$3g5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.1926.1265328213.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkfo9j$l4e$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> Sorry, I should have removed that line. This is just my setup; a normal 
> Python install doesn't create that registry entry. It allows Desktop 
> Search (or Windows Search, or whatever it is called nowadays; the F3 
> key) to search inside .py files (default behavior is to just ignore 
> their contents).
> See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309173
> 
>> Is this related to the fact that when I double-click on a .py file the 
>> command window disappears after the execution is completed?
> 
> (I bet the "Persistent" word confused you.) No, as you can see, it's 
> completely unrelated. AFAIK, there is no way (on XP and later at least) 
> to keep a console window open after the program exited. Three choices:
> 
> - Open a cmd window and execute the script there. You may drag&drop the 
> file over the window to avoid typing the full path (I think this last 
> part does not work on Vista nor Win7)
> 
> - Add a raw_input() [2.x] or input() [3.x] line at the end of the script
> 
> - Rename it with a '.cmd' extension and add this line at the very top:
> 
>     @(C:\Python26\Python -x %~f0 %* || pause) && goto:EOF
> 
> (see this post by Duncan Booth last month:
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/650913 )
> 

Thanks Gabriel.  I didn't know about the drag&drop capability (learn something 
every day, forget two things).  BTW input() works for me in 2.5.
Cheers
Gib


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb  4 20:13:36 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:13:36 -0300
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <op.u7mq0yzsx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:

> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>
> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>
> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>
>
> After changing to
> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>
> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>
> So it seems, that under windows 7 the host name lookup occurs for every
> RPC call

Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4 address,  
localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)

I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't  
work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From stephen.thorne at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:13:40 2010
From: stephen.thorne at gmail.com (Stephen Thorne)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:13:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7030037b-cd1e-4621-ab74-4f819ef5f4eb@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 8:26?am, Xah Lee <xah... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
> newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
> made is all i asked for.
>
> <trolling cruft snipped>

I am taking this as seriously as all the articles you have posted to
usenet.

Stephen.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb  4 20:36:19 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:36:19 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
In-Reply-To: <op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <4B6B7613.3000903@tim.thechases.com>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>  
>> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.
> 
> See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680


Am I the only one that expected that issue to be about too many 
Steves (and perhaps too many Tims) on c.l.p?  :-)

-tkc




From bcb at undisclosedlocation.net  Thu Feb  4 20:45:48 2010
From: bcb at undisclosedlocation.net (Bruce C. Baker)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:45:48 -0600
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Iterators, and in particular, generators.
> A killer feature.
>
> Terry Jan Reedy
>

Neither unique to Python.

And then're the other killer "features" superfluous ":"s and rigid 
formatting! 




From jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:56:50 2010
From: jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com (jonny lowe)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:56:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
Message-ID: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

Is there an easy way to merge stdin and stdout? For instance suppose I
have script that prompts for a number and prints the number. If you
execute this with redirection from a file say input.txt with 42 in the
file, then executing

./myscript < input.txt > output.txt

the output.txt might look like this:

Enter a number:
You entered 42.

What I want is to have an easy way to merge input.txt and the stdout
so that output.txt look like:

Enter a number: 42
You entered 42.

Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.

Thanks.

-jon


From stephen.thorne at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:58:36 2010
From: stephen.thorne at gmail.com (Stephen Thorne)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:58:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1924.1265324650.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eaff24dc-b5f0-450e-9627-59df4a2ecd1c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 9:02?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> > ? The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
> > name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
> > means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
> > particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
> > the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
> > with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
> > e.g. ?repeatedly asking same question?, ?continously raising
> > controversial issues?, ?refused to use paste bin when requested? will
> > do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
> > ?ban'd for trolling?, ?annoying others?, are not a meaningful reason.)
>
> This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
> happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
> bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
> case your suggestions above seem reasonable).

The current banlist lists 258 names. According to my logs there have
been 95 masks added to this list and 44 removals since October. This
is approximately 23 a month, or 3 every 4 days. 11 ops were active in
this action during this period.

For reference, this is the 4th largest IRC channel on freenode
according to http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=freenode
and the other large channels weigh in with 298 (gentoo), 9
(archlinux), 14 (##C++), 280 (#ubuntu), 109 (#debian).

We are hardly exceptional in the size of our list of people we have
excluded from the IRC community.

On discussion with #archlinux it seems that the reason archlinux has
so few on their list is because they use chanserv's AKICK feature,
which means the name isn't kept in the IRC client accessable banlist,
and is only put there temporarily when the excluded user returns by
chanserv.

Stephen.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Feb  4 21:01:08 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:01:08 -0800
Subject: Exiting a Program Running in Idle, Various Choices
Message-ID: <hkfu57$ipd$2@news.eternal-september.org>

I I have a  very simple program running in Python, with say the last 
line print "bye". it finishes leaving the script showing >>> in the 
shell window. The program proceeds linearly to the bottom line.

Suppose now I have instead a few lines of MatPlotLib code (MPL) like 
this at the end:

...
Show()

Show displays some graph and again the code proceeds linearly from line 
1. However, if one closes the graphic by clicking the x in the upper 
right corner of that window, then no >>> appears in the shell, and one 
must kill the shell using the x in the shell's upper right corner. A 
little dialog with the choices of OK (kill) or cancel appears. Use OK 
and the shell window disappears. A ctrl-c does nothing in the shell.

I know about sys.exit(),and a "finish" def when using Tkinter. I'm not 
using Tkinter as far as I know via MPL.

So how does one exit smoothly in this case of Show(), so that the shell 
window remains ready to entry commands?


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb  4 21:09:47 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:09:47 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <eaff24dc-b5f0-450e-9627-59df4a2ecd1c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1924.1265324650.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<eaff24dc-b5f0-450e-9627-59df4a2ecd1c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6B7DEB.5020101@holdenweb.com>

Stephen Thorne wrote:
> On Feb 5, 9:02 am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>> ? The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
>>> name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
>>> means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
>>> particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
>>> the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
>>> with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
>>> e.g. ?repeatedly asking same question?, ?continously raising
>>> controversial issues?, ?refused to use paste bin when requested? will
>>> do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
>>> ?ban'd for trolling?, ?annoying others?, are not a meaningful reason.)
>> This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
>> happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
>> bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
>> case your suggestions above seem reasonable).
> 
> The current banlist lists 258 names. According to my logs there have
> been 95 masks added to this list and 44 removals since October. This
> is approximately 23 a month, or 3 every 4 days. 11 ops were active in
> this action during this period.
> 
> For reference, this is the 4th largest IRC channel on freenode
> according to http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=freenode
> and the other large channels weigh in with 298 (gentoo), 9
> (archlinux), 14 (##C++), 280 (#ubuntu), 109 (#debian).
> 
> We are hardly exceptional in the size of our list of people we have
> excluded from the IRC community.
> 
> On discussion with #archlinux it seems that the reason archlinux has
> so few on their list is because they use chanserv's AKICK feature,
> which means the name isn't kept in the IRC client accessable banlist,
> and is only put there temporarily when the excluded user returns by
> chanserv.
> 
Thanks, Stephen.

It's fairly obvious I am not an active IRC user, isn't it?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From hidura at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 21:10:45 2010
From: hidura at gmail.com (Hidura)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:10:45 -0400
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
In-Reply-To: <871vh0mxdy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4bbf7fb21002032000u6bfc40f9n85ef2dcb04f1d2dd@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7k94smyx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<4bbf7fb21002040740x66f203c7x57099d07de1fe30@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1919.1265311302.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<871vh0mxdy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4bbf7fb21002041810xc9bf899v1827ff83abb67c44@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks i middle resolve the problem, and i going to read the PEP-366 i've
been read the 328, i will kept informed of the progresses.

Thanks again for the help [?]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Ben Finney
<ben+python at benfinney.id.au<ben%2Bpython at benfinney.id.au>
> wrote:

> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:
>
> > If you directly run a script from inside a package, Python does not
> > know that it belongs to a package, and treats it as a simple, lonely
> > script. In that case, relative imports won't work.
>
> Which I consider to be a bug. Fortunately, it's already addressed in PEP
> 366 <URL:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0366/>. Unfortunately, it
> involves more hackish boilerplate at the top of the program, and is only
> available in Python 2.6+.
>
> --
>  \              ?Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does |
>  `\           knowledge.? ?Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 |
> _o__)                                                                  |
> Ben Finney
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Hidura
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From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Thu Feb  4 21:20:22 2010
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:20:22 -0000
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
In-Reply-To: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100205022022.26099.2092860927.divmod.xquotient.476@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:56 am, jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>Is there an easy way to merge stdin and stdout? For instance suppose I
>have script that prompts for a number and prints the number. If you
>execute this with redirection from a file say input.txt with 42 in the
>file, then executing
>
>./myscript < input.txt > output.txt
>
>the output.txt might look like this:
>
>Enter a number:
>You entered 42.
>
>What I want is to have an easy way to merge input.txt and the stdout
>so that output.txt look like:
>
>Enter a number: 42
>You entered 42.
>
>Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.

It sounds like you might be looking for script(1)?

Jean-Paul


From half.italian at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 21:26:06 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:26:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1445b521-d9d9-4200-9a01-f146e1543d40@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 3:03?pm, Julian <maili... at julianmoritz.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
>
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
>
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.
>
> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
>
> Regards
> Julian

I love list comprehensions, but am currently falling for 'with'.

~Sean


From half.italian at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 22:10:31 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:10:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 6:08?pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 8:47?am, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, calling os.path.walk() and os.path.join() all the time on raw
> > strings is fun, but I seem to recall from my Ruby days a class called
> > Pathname, which presented an object that behaved like a string at
> > need, and like a filesystem path at need. path + 'folder' would
> > call .join() and insert the / correctly, for example.
>
> > What's the best equivalent in Python-land?
>
> It's no longer supported, but the 3rd party 'path' module used to be
> the go-to module for this:
>
> >>> from path import path
>
> C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\path.py:32: DeprecationWarning: the md5
> module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
> ? import sys, warnings, os, fnmatch, glob, shutil, codecs, md5>>> c = path('C:\\')
> >>> c.listdir()
>
> [path(u'C:\\AUTOEXEC.BAT'), path(u'C:\\boot.ini'), ...]>>> (c + 'python26').listdir()
>
> [path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
> \python26\\DLLs'), ...]>>> (c / 'python26').listdir()
>
> [path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
> \python26\\DLLs'), ...]
>
> I've hand edited the results for brevity...
>
> The module could do with some TLC to bring it up to date, but warning
> aside it still seems to work fine under 2.6.
>
> (From memory, I think the original author gave up when it became clear
> it would never be integrated into the standard lib[1], which is a
> shame, I think there's scope for a pathtools addition to the lib that
> provides this level of convenience...)
>
> There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
> Hope this helps.

It's too bad that something like this can't be agreed to.  I used a
homegrown module like this for a couple of years in my early days with
python.  It was great, but I didn't know enough at the time to make it
really useful.

Why did Path() get rejected?  Is it the idea itself, or just the
approach that was used?  What are the complaints?

~Sean


From aharrisreid at googlemail.com  Thu Feb  4 22:29:40 2010
From: aharrisreid at googlemail.com (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:29:40 +0000
Subject: Passing parameters in URL
In-Reply-To: <7svgogF768U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1842.1265220087.28905.python-list@python.org>	<878wbafaui.fsf@castleamber.com>	<7sua7fFn74U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xeil2q8e4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<7subqbFvvpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xmxzqx804.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<7suf0pFhadU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7xr5p1dh2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<7suhh1Ft2dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<7x3a1h7s82.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<7svgogF768U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4B6B90A4.6060708@googlemail.com>

Many thanks to all those who replied to my question and clearing-up the 
differences between GET and POST.  I think I know what to do now - if 
not, I'll be back :-)

Regards,
Alan


From sridharr at activestate.com  Fri Feb  5 00:01:27 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:01:27 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available
Message-ID: <D44D6DB5-DB59-4AEE-B359-40A5D66FAAD7@activestate.com>

I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available for download from:

    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/

This is a minor release with several updates and fixes.

Changes in 2.6.4.10
-------------------

- PyPM is now included in 64-bit Windows and Linux builds
- Include Distribute instead of setuptools
- Include pip
- Upgrade to Tcl/Tk 8.5.8
- [Windows] Upgrade to Pywin32 CVS (2009-11-10)
- [Windows] Support for OpenSSL in 64-bit
- [Windows] Include Tcl/Tk header files 
- [Windows] Fix broken IDLE on the 64-bit build 

See the release notes for full details:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.6/relnotes.html#changes


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's binary distribution of Python. Builds
for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux are made freely available. Builds
for Solaris, HP-UX and AIX, and access to older versions are
available with ActivePython Business Edition:

    http://www.activestate.com/business_edition/

ActivePython includes the Python core and the many core extensions:
zlib and bzip2 for data compression, the Berkeley DB (bsddb) and SQLite
(sqlite3) database libraries, OpenSSL bindings for HTTPS
support, the Tix GUI widgets for Tkinter, ElementTree for XML
processing, ctypes (on supported platforms) for low-level library
access, and others. The Windows distribution ships with PyWin32 -- a
suite of Windows tools developed by Mark Hammond, including bindings
to the Win32 API and Windows COM. 

Beginning with the 2.6.3.7 release, ActivePython includes a binary package
manager for Python (PyPM) that can be used to install packages much
easily. For example:

    pypm install pylons

See this page for full details:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.6/whatsincluded.html

As well, ActivePython ships with a wealth of documentation for both
new and experienced Python programmers. In addition to the core Python
docs, ActivePython includes the "What's New in Python" series, "Dive
into Python", the Python FAQs & HOWTOs, and the Python Enhancement
Proposals (PEPs).

An online version of the docs can be found here:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.6/

We would welcome any and all feedback to:

    ActivePython-feedback at activestate.com

Please file bugs against ActivePython at:

    http://bugs.activestate.com/query.cgi?set_product=ActivePython


On what platforms does ActivePython run?
----------------------------------------

ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:

- Windows/x86
- Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
- Mac OS X
- Linux/x86
- Linux/x86_64 (aka "AMD64")
- Solaris/SPARC (Business Edition only)
- Solaris/x86 (Business Edition only)
- HP-UX/PA-RISC (Business Edition only)
- AIX/PowerPC (Business Edition only)
- AIX/PowerPC 64-bit (Business Edition only)

Custom builds are available in Enterprise Edition:

    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/enterprise/

Thanks, and enjoy!

The Python Team

--
Sridhar Ratnakumar
sridharr at activestate.com
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 00:20:58 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 05:20:58 GMT
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com> <87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<mailman.1932.1265333794.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00f52feb$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:36:19 -0600, Tim Chase wrote:

> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>
>>> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.
>> 
>> See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680
> 
> 
> Am I the only one that expected that issue to be about too many Steves
> (and perhaps too many Tims) on c.l.p?  :-)


That was exactly my thought too.


One of the multiple Steves'ly yrs,


-- 
Steve


From john at castleamber.com  Fri Feb  5 00:50:20 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:50:20 -0600
Subject: Passing command line argument to program from within IDLE?
References: <6acmm5h60l9he1ntoac87ogp1dqjh4msj6@4ax.com>
	<hkfdbn$ufs$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1921.1265318967.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4d6df$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87r5p07eo6.fsf@castleamber.com> <87mxzo7edv.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<op.u7mn12ibx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<mailman.1932.1265333794.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871vh0z0wz.fsf@castleamber.com>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:

> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:46:52 -0300, John Bokma
>> <john at castleamber.com>  
>>> Oops, that should've been Steve, my apologies.
>>
>> See http://bugs.python.org/issue5680
>
> Am I the only one that expected that issue to be about too many Steves
> (and perhaps too many Tims) on c.l.p?  :-)

Ha ha ha, yeah something like that, wasn't expecting what was actually
on that page.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Feb  5 01:18:37 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:18:37 -0800
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6bb461$0$1654$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
>> all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
>> area.
> 
> How is this at all specific to Python?
> 
> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.

     Good point.

     This is actually a problem in what's called "constructive geometry".
Usually, this is a 3D problem, for which the term "constructive solid
geometry", or CSG, is used.  That's where to look for algorithms.

     Yes, there are efficient algorithms and near-exact solutions.
The basic idea is that you find all the points at which circles
intersect, sort those by one coordinate, and advance across that
coordinate, from one value of interest to the next.  Between any
two values of interest you're dealing with areas bounded by arcs
and lines, so the areas can be calculated analytically.  It's a
lot like a rasterized polygon fill algorithm.

     (I used to do stuff like this back when I did physics engines
with efficient 3D collision detection.)

				John Nagle


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:12:05 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:12:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f37025cb-e213-4ba1-ab7a-37c786485b30@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 4 Feb, 23:03, Julian <maili... at julianmoritz.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
>
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
>
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.
>
> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
>
> Regards
> Julian

* simplicity
* documentation - some criticise it, I love it.
* duck typing
* batteries included

And lots more!

--
Arnaud


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Feb  5 02:19:46 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:19:46 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xr5p0kv3h.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Julian <mailings at julianmoritz.de> writes:
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".

- Very easy to learn, at least for the not-too-hairy fragment
- some features like generators are advanced compared with some
  other languages, yet still easy to use
- pleasant-to-use syntax (yes, the indentation stuff that everyone
  is freaked out by at first) and well-evolved library makes coding
  very productive and enjoyable
- reasonably good documentation
- large and friendly user/developer community


From george.sakkis at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:25:59 2010
From: george.sakkis at gmail.com (George Sakkis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:25:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
Message-ID: <de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 2:45?am, "Bruce C. Baker" <b... at undisclosedlocation.net>
wrote:

> "Terry Reedy" <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote in message
>
> news:mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list at python.org...
>
> > Iterators, and in particular, generators.
> > A killer feature.
>
> > Terry Jan Reedy

+1, iterators/generators is among Python's best features for me too.

> Neither unique to Python.

Can you name a single feature that is unique to a language, Python or
other ? Every idea that's any good has been copied over, usually more
than once.

> And then're the other killer "features" superfluous ":"s and rigid
> formatting!

I'll give the benefit of doubt and assume you're joking rather than
trolling.

George


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Feb  5 02:29:39 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:29:39 +1000
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <f37025cb-e213-4ba1-ab7a-37c786485b30@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<f37025cb-e213-4ba1-ab7a-37c786485b30@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002042329p63900958v56e1e9074267d1c8@mail.gmail.com>

Personally, I love the fact that I can type in 2**25 in the intepreter
without crashing my machine. ;)

Cheers,
-Xav
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From monaghand.david at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:43:55 2010
From: monaghand.david at gmail.com (David Monaghan)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:43:55 +0000
Subject: Python 3 minor irritation
References: <a84km599fe7r70b9qmol8h01a698lv1f44@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <odinm5dh715ick21rfddahmfmbj7qrg4bp@4ax.com>

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:39:01 +0000, David Monaghan
<monaghand.david at gmail.com> wrote:

>I have a small program which reads files from the directory in which it
>resides. It's written in Python 3 and when run through IDLE or PythonWin
>works fine. If I double-click the file, it works fine in Python 2.6, but in
>3 it fails because it looks for the files to load in the Python31 folder,
>not the one the script is in.
>
>It's not a big deal, but browsing around I haven't found why the behaviour
>has been changed or any comment about it (That might be my poor search
>technique, I suppose).
>
>The program fails at:
>
>    try:
>        tutdoc = minidom.parse(".//Myfile.xml")
>    except IOError:
>        <snip>

I very much appreciate all the help offered on this, but feel a bit of an
idiot now as I can't reproduce the behaviour (it had happened on two
separate machines).

What I am still getting is a similar problem on my work computer with the
program on a network hard drive. Not always - it'll run on repeated
attempts, then fail for a few, then work again. When it failed I ran the
script as suggested:

import os
print("curdir=", os.getcwd())
print("__file__=", __file__)
input()

and got the response:

curdir= H:\
__file__= H:\FRCR\FRCR2010\Course documents\FRCR2009\Script1.py

so it's 'sticking' at H:

For interest, I ran the script from IDLE, too, and PythonWin, on three
separate computers (2 Python3, 1 Python2.6)

With that I get a NameError for __file__

curdir= H:\FRCR\FRCR2010\Course documents\FRCR2009
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "H:\FRCR\FRCR2010\Course documents\FRCR2009\Script1.py", line 3,
in <module>
    print("__file__=", __file__)
NameError: name '__file__' is not defined

What have I done wrong?

DaveM


From donn.ingle at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 03:01:54 2010
From: donn.ingle at gmail.com (donn)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:01:54 +0200
Subject: pyclutter anyone?
Message-ID: <4B6BD072.4080006@gmail.com>

Hi, this is a little bit of a cross-post. I posted to the clutter list, 
but there's little activity there.

I am trying to make sense of pyClutter 1.0. Could anyone point me to an
example (or post one) that shows clipping from a path applied to child
objects?

For example: A star shape that contains a bunch of moving rectangles
which will travel/size/rotate with the star, but are clipped to the
shape of the star.

I suspect this will involve a custom clutter.Group class of some kind,
with cogl paths and an on_paint() method, but I can find no headway on
the web so far.

Hope someone can help!
\d

-- 
Fonty Python and Things! -- http://otherwise.relics.co.za/wiki/Software



From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Fri Feb  5 03:36:33 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:36:33 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
Message-ID: <4B6BD891.3060505@bluewin.ch>

Hi,

   I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle window.

This is the command I have been using:
   C:\Python24\pythonw.exe C:\Python24\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
execfile('C:\\Python24\\i')

And this is the command that doesn't start anything:
   C:\Python25\pythonw.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
execfile('C:\\Python25\\i')

The command is exactly the same with the digit 5 in the place of 4. All 
paths and names are correct. C:\\Python25\\i sets up sys.path but seems 
irrelevant, as taking the execfile () part out doesn't change anything. 
The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a warning saying 
that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any tips?

Thanks

Frederic

 

 





From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 03:49:02 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:19:02 +0530
Subject: Common area of circles
In-Reply-To: <4b6bb461$0$1654$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <d4ab53de1002040239s502ae03cl34f8fb236f9537f8@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.1896.1265283682.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6bb461$0$1654$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002050049u77d55619i304b0a9fdb2e77a8@mail.gmail.com>

Here is my approach:
# input circles, remove duplicates, store them
# check whether all circle intersect:
    if no: print '0.0'
    if yes:
# calculate intersection points of two circles.
# check if that point lies in rest all circles
    if yes: store it as polygon-coordinates (hull)
    calculate area of curve from the given two points
# calculate final area : net area of curve + area of polygon
Here is my final code :
It's still Buggy (the logic I believe is correct, The implementation is
Buggy I guess
<Code>

import math

def catch_point(x, y):
    # checks for points which lie inside all the circles
    # stores all such point in hull
    kount = True
    for i in range(n):
        if (x - circle[i][0])**2 + (y - circle[i][1])**2 - 1.0 > 0:
            kount = False
    if kount == True:
        hull.append((x, y))

def curve_area(x0, y0, x1, y1, x2, y2):
    k = math.sqrt((x1 - x2)**2 + (y1 - y2)**2)
    area_c = math.pi * (math.degrees(math.acos(1.0 - k*k/2.0))/360) #TODO
Verify
    area_t = 0.5 * ( x0*(y1 - y2) - x1*(y0 - y2) + x2*(y0 - y1) )
    if area_t < 0:  area_t = -area_t
    area = area_c - area_t
    #print area
    return area

def polygon_area(p):
    # calculate area of the polygon given the co-ordinates
    return 0.5 * abs(sum(x0*y1 - x1*y0 for ((x0, y0), (x1, y1)) in
segments(p)))

def segments(p):
    return zip(p, p[1:] + [p[0]])

def intersect_circles(l):
    # check whether all circle intersects or not
    for i in l:
        for j in l:
            if (i[0] - j[0])**2 + (i[1] - j[1])**2 >= 4.0:
                sol = 0.0
                return sol
                break
    return 1.0

def intersect_coordinates(l):
    sol = 0.0   # initialisation of final result
    for i in range(n):
        for j in range(n):
            # find all intersecting co-ordinates for each circle
            xa, xb = circle[i][0], circle[j][0]
            ya, yb = circle[i][1], circle[j][1]
            d = math.sqrt((xa - xb)**2 + (ya - yb)**2)
            if d == 0:  continue
            x1 = 0.5*(xa + xb) + 0.5*(yb - ya)*math.sqrt(4 - d*d) / d
            y1 = 0.5*(yb + ya) - 0.5*(xb - xa)*math.sqrt(4 - d*d) / d
            catch_point(x1, y1) # first intersection point
            x2 = 0.5*(xa + xb) - 0.5*(yb - ya)*math.sqrt(4 - d*d) / d
            y2 = 0.5*(yb + ya) + 0.5*(xb - xa)*math.sqrt(4 - d*d) / d
            catch_point(x2, y2) # second intersection point
        sol += curve_area(circle[i][0], circle[i][1], hull[-1][0],
hull[-1][1], hull[-2][0], hull[-2][1])
        # add up the value of curves
    return sol

t = int(raw_input())        # total no. of test cases
for test in range(t):
    n = int(raw_input())    # total no. of circles
    circle = []             # a blank list which will contain center of
circles
    hull = []               # a blank list which will consist of points on
convex polygon
    for i in range(n):
        x,y = [float(i) for i in raw_input().split()]
        circle.append((x,y))    # storing the value

    circle = list(set(circle))  # removing duplicates
    n = len(circle)             # calculating no. of non-duplicate circle
    sol = intersect_circles(circle)     #intersect_circles() check whether
all circle intersect
    if sol == 0.0:          # if sol == 0.0 means all circle do not
intersect
        print "0.000000"    # solution = 0.000000 in this case
    elif n == 1:            # if only 1 circle present, the solution is PI
        print "%.6f" %(math.pi)
    else:
        sol = intersect_coordinates(circle)        # for rest cases we need
to calculate intersection co-ordinates of circle
        print "%.6f" %(sol + polygon_area(hull))   # final solution

</Code>

sample output :
4
2
0 0
1 0
1.228370
3
0 0
0 0
0 0
3.141593
3
0 0
0 1
10 12
0.000000
3
0 0
1 0
0 1
0.192972

Either there is a redundency or there is some issue with this line : sol +=
curve_area(circle[i][0], circle[i][1], hull[-1][0], hull[-1][1],
hull[-2][0], hull[-2][1])

Still trying to fix it.
~l0nwlf

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:48 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:

> Chris Rebert wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Given 'n' circles and the co-ordinates of their center, and the radius of
>>> all being equal i.e. 'one', How can I take out the intersection of their
>>> area.
>>>
>>
>> How is this at all specific to Python?
>>
>> This also sounds suspiciously like homework, which you should know
>> this list is unlikely to give direct answers to, though you might be
>> able to get a few pointers or some general suggestions.
>>
>
>    Good point.
>
>    This is actually a problem in what's called "constructive geometry".
> Usually, this is a 3D problem, for which the term "constructive solid
> geometry", or CSG, is used.  That's where to look for algorithms.
>
>    Yes, there are efficient algorithms and near-exact solutions.
> The basic idea is that you find all the points at which circles
> intersect, sort those by one coordinate, and advance across that
> coordinate, from one value of interest to the next.  Between any
> two values of interest you're dealing with areas bounded by arcs
> and lines, so the areas can be calculated analytically.  It's a
> lot like a rasterized polygon fill algorithm.
>
>    (I used to do stuff like this back when I did physics engines
> with efficient 3D collision detection.)
>
>                                John Nagle
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb  5 04:01:49 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:01:49 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkgmpv$p98$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Anthra Norell:
> Hi,
> 
>   I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle window.
> 
> This is the command I have been using:
>   C:\Python24\pythonw.exe C:\Python24\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
> execfile('C:\\Python24\\i')
> 
> And this is the command that doesn't start anything:
>   C:\Python25\pythonw.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
> execfile('C:\\Python25\\i')
> 
> The command is exactly the same with the digit 5 in the place of 4. All 
> paths and names are correct. C:\\Python25\\i sets up sys.path but seems 
> irrelevant, as taking the execfile () part out doesn't change anything. 
> The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a warning saying 
> that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any tips?

Don't know, but the '-n' option, is that passed to IDLE?

Perhaps try removing that.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 04:10:39 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:10:39 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Yhanks  a lot I'll check whether this is the root cause.

Currently my machine could live without IPV6


bye

N


Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>
>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>
>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>
>>
>> After changing to
>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>
>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>>
>> So it seems, that under windows 7 the host name lookup occurs for every
>> RPC call
> 
> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
> 
> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.
> 


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 05:58:18 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:58:18 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6BF9CA.4030702@sequans.com>

News123 wrote:
> Yhanks  a lot I'll check whether this is the root cause.
>
> Currently my machine could live without IPV6
>
>
> bye
>
> N
>
>
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>   
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>     
>>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>>
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>>
>>>
>>> After changing to
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>>>
>>> So it seems, that under windows 7 the host name lookup occurs for every
>>> RPC call
>>>       
>> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
>> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
>>
>> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
>> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
>> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.
>>
>>     
Or you can simply use an explicit external address. Most of the time 
xmlRPC server/clients are used between distant machines.
If your are using localhost for test purpose, then binding your server 
on its external IP instead of the local one could solve your problem 
(wihtout removing the IPV6 stack).

import socket

# server
server = SimpleXMLRPCServer((socket.gethostname(), 5000), 
logRequests=False, allow_none=True)


# client
xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://%s.yourdomain.com:%s" % 
(socket.gethostname(), 5000))

JM

PS : please don't top post :o)
PS : just wondering if using the port 80 is legal


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Feb  5 06:09:16 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:09:16 +0000
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkgu8r$nn8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/04/10 23:03, Julian wrote:
<cut>

> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.

That it is ego-orientated programming ;-)
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2009-April/007419.html

-- 
mph


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 06:10:57 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:10:57 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4B6BFCC1.9070104@sequans.com>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> Julian wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
>> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
>> "hidden features of Python".
>>
>> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
>> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
>> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
>> use python?".
>>
>> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
>> popular and beloved python features.
>>
>> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
>> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
>>
>> Regards
>> Julian
>
> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/choose_python.pdf 
>
"Choose metaclasses if you don?t value your sanity."

That remembers me the time when it took me 4 hours to write a ten lines 
metaclass :o)

JM


From lallous at lgwm.org  Fri Feb  5 06:11:01 2010
From: lallous at lgwm.org (lallous)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 03:11:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a multiline string
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<a1qq37-bjg.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <cd608786-cc9a-431c-97c3-0ff9ffb327e8@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

@Ulrich:

On Feb 4, 1:09?pm, Ulrich Eckhardt <eckha... at satorlaser.com> wrote:
> Just for the record: Neither of the below methods actually produce a
> multiline string. They only spread a string containing one line over
> multiple lines of source code.
>

I meant:
"Note" -> "Note: I don't want to use new lines"

I did not want a multi line string


Thanks guys, method 3 seems to be good enough.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb  5 06:38:15 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 11:38:15 GMT
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Anthra Norell <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>    window. 
> 
> This is the command I have been using:
>    C:\Python24\pythonw.exe C:\Python24\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
> execfile('C:\\Python24\\i')
> 
> And this is the command that doesn't start anything:
>    C:\Python25\pythonw.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
> execfile('C:\\Python25\\i')
> 
> The command is exactly the same with the digit 5 in the place of 4.
> All paths and names are correct. C:\\Python25\\i sets up sys.path but
> seems irrelevant, as taking the execfile () part out doesn't change
> anything. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
> tips? 
> 
> Thanks
> 
Does 'unable to start a 2.5 idle window' mean you get some sort of error
or simply that nothing happens? 

What happens if you simply run C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.bat
Does that work or not?

What about running this from a command prompt:

 C:\Python25\python.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.py

Does that run idle or do you get any error messages?
What about this?

 C:\Python25\python.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw

Using pythonw.exe will start the program with all error output dumped in
the bit bucket. Running from a command prompt with python.exe will at
least let you see if there are any errors. 

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Fri Feb  5 06:42:47 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:42:47 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002050342w20133cf3p2d2da8932b81f0f3@mail.gmail.com>

>> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
>> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
>> "hidden features of Python".
>>
>> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
>> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
>> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
>> use python?".
>>
>> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
>> popular and beloved python features.
>>
>> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
>> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.
>>
>> Regards
>> Julian
>
> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/choose_python.pdf

This is effin hilarious! Should be either linked or stored on python.org

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 06:57:17 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 03:57:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
Message-ID: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I very badly need this to work. I have been googling out for a week
with no significant solution. I open a process p1 which does keeps
running for 4+ hours. It gives some output in stdout now and then. I
open this process with subprocess.Popen and redirect the stdout to
PIPE. However when I read the output with readline it blocks waiting
forever. I need to read from p1.stdout till what it has in the PIPE.
Can someone help me out with the exact code change that can accomplish
the task.

from subprocess import *

p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)

while 1:
    line=p1.stdout.readline()
    print line

Thanks in advance,
~Ashok.


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Fri Feb  5 07:12:55 2010
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:12:55 +0100
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Ashok Prabhu <ashokprabhuv at gmail.com> writes:

> from subprocess import *
> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)

Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.

-- Alain.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 07:13:16 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:13:16 +0100
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hk6j08$8s3$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.14.46.984000@nowhere.com>	<87y6jef1df.fsf@castleamber.com>	<0375f27a$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<878wbdye6p.fsf@castleamber.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.01.33.25@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<87tyu1ws3c.fsf@castleamber.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.06.27.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<a2803a2d-4b11-4d8c-bf81-4929830f7fdf@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.01.07.12.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hk6j08$8s3$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkh1v4$e1i$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
>>> Jeez, Steve, you're beginning to sound like some kind of fallacy
>>> zealot... ;)
>> Death to all those who confuse agumentum ad populum with argumentum ad 
>> verecundiam!!!
>>
>>
> Yeah, what did the zealots ever do for us?

They produced Python?

.
.
.


Oh Python! Shut up!




From alpeachey at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 07:16:16 2010
From: alpeachey at gmail.com (apeach)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:16:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I love intuitive type recognition.

no need to 'DIM everything AS Integer' etc.!



From bartc at freeuk.com  Fri Feb  5 07:18:46 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:18:46 GMT
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <e97ff208-d08e-4934-8e38-a40d668cd116@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<e97ff208-d08e-4934-8e38-a40d668cd116@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <G0Uan.36049$Ym4.3337@text.news.virginmedia.com>


"R Fritz" <rfritz333 at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:e97ff208-d08e-4934-8e38-a40d668cd116 at l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> My favorite feature is its readability.  It's as near to pseudo-code
> as any language we have, and that's valuable in open source projects
> or when I return to code to modify it.

That might be true when used to code actual algorithms using basic features.

But a lot of Pythonisms would appear mysterious to someone who doesn't know 
the language (for example, what does :: mean in an array index).

Or perhaps pseudo-code is much more advanced these days...

-- 
bartc 



From frank at chagford.com  Fri Feb  5 07:45:30 2010
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:45:30 +0200
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
Message-ID: <hkh3tn$lbc$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi all

Assume you have a server process running, a pool of worker threads to 
perform tasks, and a Queue.Queue() to pass the tasks to the workers.

In order to shut down the server cleanly, you want to ensure that the 
workers have all finished their tasks. I like the technique of putting a 
None onto the queue, and have each worker check for None, put None back onto 
the queue, and terminate itself.

The main program would look something like this -

    q.put(None)
    for worker in worker_threads:
        worker.join()

At this point you can be sure that each thread has completed its tasks and 
terminated itself.

However, the queue is not empty - it still has the final None in it.

Is it advisable to finalise the cleanup like this? -

    while not q.empty():
        q.get()
        q.task_done()
    q.join()

Or is this completely redundant?

Thanks

Frank Millman




From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 07:53:05 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 04:53:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 5:12?pm, Alain Ketterlin <al... at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
wrote:
> Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> writes:
> > from subprocess import *
> > p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>
> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>
> -- Alain.

Hi Alain,

Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
below.

>>> from subprocess import *
>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 543, in __init__
    errread, errwrite)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 975, in _execute_child
    raise child_exception
OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory

Thanks,
~Ashok.


From alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr  Fri Feb  5 07:58:27 2010
From: alain at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (Alain Ketterlin)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:58:27 +0100
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87636bn8jw.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>

Ashok Prabhu <ashokprabhuv at gmail.com> writes:

>> > p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>>
>> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>>
>> -- Alain.

> Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
> below.
>
>>>> from subprocess import *
>>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)

You forgot to change the monolithic command into a list of words. Since
you don't use the shell anymore you have to give Popen a pre-parsed
command line.

-- Alain.


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Fri Feb  5 08:23:57 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:23:57 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>

Thank you both (Alf and Duncan) for your comments. I answer Duncan's 
questions interleaved:

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Anthra Norell <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>>    window. 
>>
>> This is the command I have been using:
>>    C:\Python24\pythonw.exe C:\Python24\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
>> execfile('C:\\Python24\\i')
>>
>> And this is the command that doesn't start anything:
>>    C:\Python25\pythonw.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw -n -c 
>> execfile('C:\\Python25\\i')
>>
>> The command is exactly the same with the digit 5 in the place of 4.
>> All paths and names are correct. C:\\Python25\\i sets up sys.path but
>> seems irrelevant, as taking the execfile () part out doesn't change
>> anything. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
>> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
>> tips? 
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>     
> Does 'unable to start a 2.5 idle window' mean you get some sort of error
> or simply that nothing happens? 
>   
Nothing happens and no error message shows. The disk head stepper makes 
a brief attempt at something then goes silent and that's it.
> What happens if you simply run C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.bat
> Does that work or not?
>   
Same thing: Nothing happens
> What about running this from a command prompt:
>
>  C:\Python25\python.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.py
>   
Same thing: Nothing!
> Does that run idle or do you get any error messages?
> What about this?
>
>  C:\Python25\python.exe C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw
>
>   
Nothing!
> Using pythonw.exe will start the program with all error output dumped in
> the bit bucket. Running from a command prompt with python.exe will at
> least let you see if there are any errors. 
>   
python.exe from the command line works all right in a DOS window. The 
problem must be with  idle.pyw. I tried the old idle.pyw (2.4) with the 
new python.exe. (2.5) and that didn't work either.
What is the bit bucket? If I had a clue, I could go from there. What 
puzzles me is that version 2.4 has been working fine and one wouldn't 
think that the changes from 2.4 to 2.5 would be so extensive as to cause 
a major malfunction. For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 
2.5, though, because it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 
cannot even use it.

Frederic



From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 08:33:00 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87636bn8jw.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
Message-ID: <4ae7195a-d3ec-4886-9123-de88641aa797@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 5:58?pm, Alain Ketterlin <al... at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
wrote:
> Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> writes:
> >> > p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>
> >> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>
> >> -- Alain.
> > Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
> > below.
>
> >>>> from subprocess import *
> >>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)
>
> You forgot to change the monolithic command into a list of words. Since
> you don't use the shell anymore you have to give Popen a pre-parsed
> command line.
>
> -- Alain.

Here is the error again

>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d',stdout=PIPE)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 494, in __init__
    raise TypeError("bufsize must be an integer")
TypeError: bufsize must be an integer


~Ashok.


From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 08:39:49 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 05:39:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87636bn8jw.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<4ae7195a-d3ec-4886-9123-de88641aa797@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e8538cbc-a0db-4606-870b-37eeeaaa7410@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 6:33?pm, Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 5:58?pm, Alain Ketterlin <al... at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> writes:
> > >> > p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>
> > >> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>
> > >> -- Alain.
> > > Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
> > > below.
>
> > >>>> from subprocess import *
> > >>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)
>
> > You forgot to change the monolithic command into a list of words. Since
> > you don't use the shell anymore you have to give Popen a pre-parsed
> > command line.
>
> > -- Alain.
>
> Here is the error again
>
> >>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d',stdout=PIPE)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ? File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 494, in __init__
> ? ? raise TypeError("bufsize must be an integer")
> TypeError: bufsize must be an integer
>
> ~Ashok.

Oops i missed the braces. But still no output.


>>> p1=Popen(['/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d'],stdout=PIPE)
>>> while 1:
...  a=p1.stdout.readline()
...  print a
...


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 08:43:50 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:43:50 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c2095$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

apeach a ?crit :
> I love intuitive type recognition.
> 
> no need to 'DIM everything AS Integer' etc.!
> 

not to mention the ever hilarious (that is, when you don't have to 
maintain it) typical Java idiom:

    EveryThing theEveryThing = new EveryThing();



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 08:45:17 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:45:17 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c20eb$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Julian a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
> 
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
> 
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.

My all-time favorite Python feature : it fits my brain.


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Fri Feb  5 08:49:53 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:49:53 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <99F0D2AF-0DAD-457C-B651-0A93A31A37CE@roalddevries.nl>

On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:03 AM, Julian wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".
>
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
> use python?".
>
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.
>
> So, may you help me please? If there's a similar thread/blogpost/
> whatever, please give it to me, google couldn't.

My reasoning: I needed a language more powerful than bash, but more  
portable and faster to develop (at least small scripts) than C/C++. So  
I needed a scripting language. Python, Ruby, Perl, Tcl, ...?

Python seems to be the language with the most libraries available,  
programs written in it, OS-support (even runs on my smartphone), has a  
good data-model, has a good interactive shell (iPython).





From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb  5 08:49:53 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 13:49:53 GMT
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<mailman.1950.1265376253.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D168C976DFBAduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Anthra Norell <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:

>> Using pythonw.exe will start the program with all error output dumped in
>> the bit bucket. Running from a command prompt with python.exe will at
>> least let you see if there are any errors. 
>>   
> python.exe from the command line works all right in a DOS window. The 
> problem must be with  idle.pyw. I tried the old idle.pyw (2.4) with the 
> new python.exe. (2.5) and that didn't work either.
> What is the bit bucket? If I had a clue, I could go from there. What 
> puzzles me is that version 2.4 has been working fine and one wouldn't 
> think that the changes from 2.4 to 2.5 would be so extensive as to cause 
> a major malfunction. For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 
> 2.5, though, because it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 
> cannot even use it.

Bit bucket: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_bucket

If you are seeing nothing at all when running it with python.exe instead of 
pythonw.exe then something bizarre must be happening.

My guess would have been that you had a problem importing something: e.g. 
if Tkinter isn't installed properly then running Idle under pythonw.exe 
would exit with an error message but you wouldn't see the error message. 
However since you don't see an error message when running it with 
python.exe it isn't that.

Sorry, I'm out of ideas for now.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:21:05 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:21:05 +0100
Subject: which
Message-ID: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>


if isinstance(cmd, str):
     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
else:
     self.cmd = cmd

or

self.cmd = cmd
if isinstance(cmd, str):
     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)




From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb  5 09:22:03 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:22:03 -0500
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pecora-49F401.09220305022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:57:59 -0500, Lou Pecora wrote:
> 
> > Well, that looks a bit more complicated than I would like, but maybe
> > it's doing more stuff than I can grok.  Here's what I needed and how I
> > did it in Python:
> [...]
> > # Reading same list in:
> > instr=fp.readline()
> > inlist=eval(instr)
> > x1,y1,astr1,z1= inlist
> > 
> > 
> > That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous
> > collection of variables. 
> 
> Easy, but also quick and dirty -- good enough for small scripts, but not 
> really good enough for production applications.
> 
> 
> > I can add more variables, shuffle the order,
> > whatever without messing with formatting, etc. 
> 
> This is nice and easy. But there are at least four catches:
> 
> 
> * you can't safely treat the data file as human-editable
> (although a sufficiently careful and Python-aware user could edit it)
> 
> * you can't use any data that isn't a built-in, or that contains 
> something that is not a built-in
> 
> * there may be reliability issues with floats - you're at the mercy of 
> changes to the underlying repr of float objects, and it almost certainly 
> will blow up in your face if you get an inf or nan (at least prior to 
> Python 2.6)
> 
> * you're using eval, which is a security risk if you can't trust the 
> source of the data file.
> 
> However, be aware that neither marshal nor pickle guarantees to be safe 
> against malicious data either. The docs for both warn against using them 
> on untrusted data. YAML or JSON *might* be safer, I haven't looked.

I understand where you are coming from: Production Code.  I was just 
making a point about Python and my code is only used by me.  I can edit 
the file for the simple I/O I do.  I am not recommending this way for 
everyone. Just an example.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From gdementen at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:25:02 2010
From: gdementen at gmail.com (Gaetan de Menten)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:25:02 +0100
Subject: Pickling an extension type subclasses problems
Message-ID: <b777f2e01002050625j48ebcf9fl80dfa6e68ccee0e5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am trying to write an (optional!) C extension for SQLAlchemy, and I
am struggling to make an extension type picklable *and* using the same
format as the pure Python version (so that computers with the C
extension can unpickle pickles from computers without it and
vice-versa). Also the extension type (MyBase in the example code
below) only serves as a base class for the type that get pickled
(MyPythonType). MyPythonType also has further subclasses and those
should be picklable too.

My setup is as follow:

On the Python side:
================

try:
    from cextension import MyBase
except ImportError:
    class MyBase(object):
        __slots__ = ('a', 'b', 'c')
        def __init__(self, a, b, c):
            self.a, self.b, self.c = a, b, c

        def __getstate__(self):
            ...

        def __setstate__(self, state):
            ...
        ...


class MyPythonType(MyBase):
    ...

On the .c side:
===========
I implemented a reduce method, which returns

Py_BuildValue("(O(s)N)", Py_TYPE(self), "__state__", state);

and in my BaseRowProxy_init method, I check the number of arguments,
whether the "__state__" marker is present and unpack the state if it
is. This makes the type nicely pickleable, but this is obviously not
the same "pickle format" as the Python version.

What would you recommend in this kind of situation? I'm a bit tired of
trial and error... My last hope is to define __reduce__ on the Python
side too, and make it use a module-level "reconstructor" function as
follow:

def mypythontype_reconstructor(cls, state):
    obj = object.__new__(cls, state):
    ....
    return obj

Will this work? Any other idea?

Thanks in advance,
-- 
Ga?tan de Menten


From killy.draw at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:25:05 2010
From: killy.draw at gmail.com (KDr2)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:25:05 +0800
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <2eebcba81002050625s28b4a51dj5e67bf182601c2c4@mail.gmail.com>

cmd= isinstance(cmd,str) and c.replace('${ADDR}',ip) or cmd


Best Regards,
     -- KDr2 http://kdr2.net




On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:21 PM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>    self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>    self.cmd = cmd
>
> or
>
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>    self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 09:30:11 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:30:11 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkha1q$con$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> 
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>     self.cmd = cmd
> 
> or
> 
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> 
> 
My own preference is for the latter, but I am sure you will find that
opinions are mixed on this. In recent versions of Python you might want
to take the possibility that cmd is Unicode into account by using

  id isinstance(cmd, basestring):

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From tgrav at me.com  Fri Feb  5 09:31:02 2010
From: tgrav at me.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:31:02 -0500
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available
In-Reply-To: <D44D6DB5-DB59-4AEE-B359-40A5D66FAAD7@activestate.com>
References: <D44D6DB5-DB59-4AEE-B359-40A5D66FAAD7@activestate.com>
Message-ID: <C39018A0-AA67-4AA7-B230-9E380A08AE01@me.com>


On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:01 AM, Sridhar Ratnakumar wrote:

> I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available for download from:

> On what platforms does ActivePython run?
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:
> 
> - Windows/x86
> - Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
> - Mac OS X

Is the Mac OS X version still only 32 bit? If so does ActiveState plan to make binaries for 64bit builds
for Snow Leopard?

Cheers
  Tommy
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 09:41:34 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:41:34 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
>
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>     self.cmd = cmd
>
> or
>
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>
>
I would vote for the first one. But I could use the second as well, I 
would'nt fight for it.

What is worrying me the most in your code sample is that self.cmd can 
hold diferrent types (str, and something else). That is usually a bad 
thing to do (putting None aside).
However, my remark could be totally irrelevant of course, that depends 
on the context.

JM



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 09:42:44 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:42:44 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4b6c20eb$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6c20eb$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6C2E64.2080205@sequans.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Julian a ?crit :
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
>> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
>> "hidden features of Python".
>>
>> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
>> usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
>> some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
>> use python?".
>>
>> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
>> popular and beloved python features.
>
> My all-time favorite Python feature : it fits my brain.
Python is simple ... no offense Bruno :D

JM

(sorry couldn't help)


From bradallen137 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 09:57:18 2010
From: bradallen137 at gmail.com (bradallen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 06:57:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
Message-ID: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

For container class derived from namedtuple, but which also behaves
like a dictionary by implementing __getitem__ for non-integer index
values, is there a special reserved method which allows intercepting %
string formatting operations? I would like for my container type to
behave appropriately depending on whether the string formatting
operation has a string like this :

"whatever %s yadayada" % mycontainer  # needs to act like a tuple

"whatever %(key)s yadayada" % mycontainer  # needs to act like a
dictionary

I looked through the Python data model docs at <http://docs.python.org/
reference/datamodel.html#emulating-container-types> but only found
this:

"If the left operand of a % operator is a string or Unicode object, no
coercion takes place and the string formatting operation is invoked
instead."

Thanks!



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:15:59 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:15:59 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> What is worrying me the most in your code sample is that self.cmd can 
> hold diferrent types (str, and something else). That is usually a bad 
> thing to do (putting None aside).
> However, my remark could be totally irrelevant of course, that depends 
> on the context.

That's a valid criticism - but I do not know how to handle this 
otherwise really, because the program can be called with "cmd" to run, 
or a script to run (or a directory to copy) and in those cases cmd is None.

I guess I could use

if cmd:
	self.cmd = ...


But. Suppose that under some circumstances cmd is not string. What then?

I know that isinstance is typically not recommended, but I don't see 
better solution here.


Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:21:30 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:21:30 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <2eebcba81002050625s28b4a51dj5e67bf182601c2c4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<2eebcba81002050625s28b4a51dj5e67bf182601c2c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkhd01$nr9$1@ger.gmane.org>

KDr2 wrote:
> cmd= isinstance(cmd,str) and c.replace('${ADDR}',ip) or cmd

Perlish, but I like that. :-)

Regards,
mk



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb  5 10:24:04 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:24:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkhd6k$96p$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-04, Julian <mailings at julianmoritz.de> wrote:

> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and
> to make it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the
> stackoverflow-thread "hidden features of Python".
>
> I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the
> local usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years
> there were some people that came to the python-table just to
> ask "why should I use python?".
>
> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes
> the most popular and beloved python features.

In the fine old tradition:



                Python:  It sucks less.

                
                      A lot less.

                      
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! You should all JUMP
                                  at               UP AND DOWN for TWO HOURS
                               visi.com            while I decide on a NEW
                                                   CAREER!!


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:25:42 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:25:42 +0100
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
Message-ID: <hkhd7t$opq$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

I have a problem with a threaded program: it frequently hangs on sys.exit.

The problem is that my program uses threads which in turn use paramiko 
library, which itself is threaded.

I try to gracefully close the threads (below), but it doesn't always 
work, if paramiko calls happen to be at stage of negotiating ssh 
connection or smth similar.

The only workable solution I have is a program sending itself SIGKILL, 
which makes it terminated by OS (I think so).

Is there any way to brutally close the threads? I know that normally 
that should not be done, but shutdown when you don't care about writing 
out to disk is the only situation where it doesn't apply.

def ctrlchandler(signal, frame):
     print
     print ENDC + "Terminating on Ctrl-C, closing threads for:",
     while queue:
         for ip, th in queue:
             print ip,
             try:
                 lock.acquire()
                 th.abort = True
                 lock.release()
             except RuntimeError:
                 pass
             queue.remove((ip,th))
     print
     pid = os.getpid()
     print "Finished closing threads."
     # suicide - it's the only way of preventing frequent hangup on sys.exit
     os.kill(pid, SIGTERM)
     os.kill(pid, SIGKILL)
     sys.exit(0)



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 10:28:25 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:28:25 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>
	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>
>> What is worrying me the most in your code sample is that self.cmd can 
>> hold diferrent types (str, and something else). That is usually a bad 
>> thing to do (putting None aside).
>> However, my remark could be totally irrelevant of course, that 
>> depends on the context.
>
> That's a valid criticism - but I do not know how to handle this 
> otherwise really, because the program can be called with "cmd" to run, 
> or a script to run (or a directory to copy) and in those cases cmd is 
> None.
>
> I guess I could use
>
> if cmd:
>     self.cmd = ...
>
>
> But. Suppose that under some circumstances cmd is not string. What then?
>
> I know that isinstance is typically not recommended, but I don't see 
> better solution here.
>
>
> Regards,
> mk
>
>
If you can change your program interface, then do it, if not then you're 
right you don't have much choice as you are suffering from the program 
poor interface.
You can fix this problem by explicitly asking for the thing you want to 
do, instead of guessing by inspecting the argument nature.

myProg --help

usage : myProg command [args]
    command list:
       - cmd: execute the given <arg1> command line
       - exec: execute the given script file named <arg1>
       - copy: copy <arg1> to <arg2>

example:
 >myProg cmd "echo that's cool"
 >myProg exec /etc/init.d/myDaemon
 >myProg copy /tmp /tmp2

JM


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb  5 10:39:48 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:39:48 -0800
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
Message-ID: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each point is a 
line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing the direction of 
motion. There should be x-y coordinates axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb  5 10:42:13 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:42:13 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>

On 2/5/2010 9:21 AM, mk wrote:
>
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>     self.cmd = cmd
>
> or
>
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>
>

(lunatic fringe?)

Last August [1], I offered this alternative:

   self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
               if isinstance(cmd, str) else
               cmd)

But it didn't get much love in this forum!


[1] 
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6876917a4d579d59/1f700586f4c4614d?lnk=gst&q=Posner#1f700586f4c4614d


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 10:49:00 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:00 +0100
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
In-Reply-To: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C3DEC.9030109@sequans.com>

bradallen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> For container class derived from namedtuple, but which also behaves
> like a dictionary by implementing __getitem__ for non-integer index
> values, is there a special reserved method which allows intercepting %
> string formatting operations? I would like for my container type to
> behave appropriately depending on whether the string formatting
> operation has a string like this :
>
> "whatever %s yadayada" % mycontainer  # needs to act like a tuple
>
> "whatever %(key)s yadayada" % mycontainer  # needs to act like a
> dictionary
>
> I looked through the Python data model docs at <http://docs.python.org/
> reference/datamodel.html#emulating-container-types> but only found
> this:
>
> "If the left operand of a % operator is a string or Unicode object, no
> coercion takes place and the string formatting operation is invoked
> instead."
>
> Thanks!
>
>   
class toto:
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        return 'paf'
    def __str__(self):
        return 'pif'
    def toTuple(self):
        return (1,2,3)


1/ print '%s %s %s' % toto().toTuple()
'1 2 3'
2/ print '%(key)s ' % toto()
'paf'
3/ print '%s' % toto()
'pif'


1/ I don't know how to spare the explicit toTuple conversion, supporting 
tuple() would be tedious
2/ thanks to __getitem__ (duck typing)
3/ thanks to __str__

Anyway why would you want to use the tuple form ? it's beaten in every 
aspect by the dictionary form.


JM

"If you need something call me, I'll tell you how to live without it" 
(Coluche, about politicians)


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 10:49:08 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:08 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1957.1265380975.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4b6c20eb$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1957.1265380975.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c3df3$0$23914$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>
>> My all-time favorite Python feature : it fits my brain.
> Python is simple ... no offense Bruno :D

!-)

But FWIW, that's exactly the point : even a stoopid like me can manage 
to learn and use Python, and proceed to write working apps without 
spending more time reading the doc than actually solving the problem.


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb  5 10:49:22 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:22 +0100
Subject: which
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkheku$ms1$00$1@news.t-online.com>

mk wrote:

> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>      self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>      self.cmd = cmd
> 
> or
> 
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>      self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)

Neither.

self.cmd = cmd
self.ip = ip
...
subprocess.call(self.cmd, shell=True, env=dict(ADDR=self.ip))

Please spend a bit more energy on a descriptive subject and an unambiguous 
exposition of your problem (in English rather than code) next time.

Peter



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:52:19 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:52:19 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> If you can change your program interface, then do it, if not then you're 
> right you don't have much choice as you are suffering from the program 
> poor interface.
> You can fix this problem by explicitly asking for the thing you want to 
> do, instead of guessing by inspecting the argument nature.
> 
> myProg --help
> 
> usage : myProg command [args]
>    command list:
>       - cmd: execute the given <arg1> command line
>       - exec: execute the given script file named <arg1>
>       - copy: copy <arg1> to <arg2>
> 
> example:
>  >myProg cmd "echo that's cool"
>  >myProg exec /etc/init.d/myDaemon
>  >myProg copy /tmp /tmp2
> 

I sure can change the interface since I'm the author of the entire 
program. But I don't see how I can arrange program in a different way: 
the program is supposed to be called with -c parameter (command to run), 
-s script to run, or -y file_or_dir_to_copy.

Then, I start instances of SSHThread class to do precisely that, 
separately for each ip/hostname:


class SSHThread(threading.Thread):
     def __init__(self, lock, cmd, ip, username, sshprivkey=None, 
passw=None, port=22, script=None, remotedir=None):

         threading.Thread.__init__(self)

         self.lock = lock
         if isinstance(cmd, str):
             self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
         else:
             self.cmd = cmd
         self.ip = ip
         self.username = username
         self.sshprivkey = sshprivkey
         self.passw = passw
         self.port = port
         self.conobj = None
         self.conerror = ''
         self.msgstr = ''
         self.confailed = True
         if script:
             self.setpathinfo(script, remotedir=remotedir)
         self.sentbytes = 0
         self.finished = False
         self.abort = False

It gets called like this:

th = SSHThread(lock, opts.cmd, ip, username=username, 
sshprivkey=opts.key, passw=passw, port=port, script=opts.script, 
remotedir=opts.remotedir)


..where all the options are parsed by ConfigParser.OptionParser(). So 
they are either strings, or Nones.

So in this context this is fine. But I wanted to make the class more 
robust. Perhaps I should do smth like this before setting self.cmd?

assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, "cmd should be string 
or None"

and then:

if cmd:
	self.cmd = cmd.replace..


?

Entire source code is here:

http://python.domeny.com/cssh.py

regards,
mk









From dthole at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:53:33 2010
From: dthole at gmail.com (David Thole)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:53:33 -0600
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2sk9fllvm.fsf@dhcpw80ff9506.dynamic.uiowa.edu>

I read this....and am a tiny bit confused about the actual problem.

It's not exactly complex to realize that something like:
a = b = array
that a and b both point to the array.

Logically speaking, I'm not sure how one could assume that the same
assignment would yield a and b point to the same duplicate array.  If
that was the case, why not do:
a = array..
b = array..

I know with what you were complaining about a few days ago, .clear makes
perfect sense.  If a and b point to the same array, clear should clear
both arrays.  Again, if you didn't want that to happen, create a
duplicate array.

Personally I feel that this complexity doesn't hamper programming
process, and yes while its good for efficiency it also just makes sense.

Also, I wouldn't look at PHP on the right way to do something
programming wise.  I have ~5 years experience in this language, and I
dislike it a whole lot.  There's a lot of things it should do right that
it doesn't out of convenience.

-David
www.thedarktrumpet.com



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 10:54:18 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:54:18 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4B6C3F2A.1070108@sequans.com>

John Posner wrote:
> On 2/5/2010 9:21 AM, mk wrote:
>>
>> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>> else:
>>     self.cmd = cmd
>>
>> or
>>
>> self.cmd = cmd
>> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>>
>>
>
> (lunatic fringe?)
>
> Last August [1], I offered this alternative:
>
>   self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>               if isinstance(cmd, str) else
>               cmd)
>
> But it didn't get much love in this forum!
>
>
> [1] 
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6876917a4d579d59/1f700586f4c4614d?lnk=gst&q=Posner#1f700586f4c4614d 
>
Heresy !

JM


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb  5 10:55:17 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 07:55:17 -0800
Subject: list.extend([]) Question
References: <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57 at b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
Dan Brown  <fsenzeru at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Why does extending a list with the empty list result in None?  It
>seems very counterintuitive to me, at least --- I expected ['a'].extend
>([]) to result in ['a'], not None.

http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general/#why-doesn-t-list-sort-return-the-sorted-list
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 11:02:37 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:02:37 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1968.1265385115.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1968.1265385115.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c411b$0$20638$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
(snip)
> So in this context this is fine. But I wanted to make the class more 
> robust. Perhaps I should do smth like this before setting self.cmd?
> 
> assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, "cmd should be string 
> or None"
> 
> and then:
> 
> if cmd:
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace..

And what if cmd happens to be the empty string ?-)

ok, me --->[]


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 11:03:28 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:03:28 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
Message-ID: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>

Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
structures ?

I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not exist.

Let say I have this very simple class:

class Point:
    def __init__(self, x, y):
    self.x = x
    self.y = y


I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)

I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
pointing me in the right direction.

JM



From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:06:52 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:06:52 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002050806n207d7784p144819c8af4c57cb@mail.gmail.com>

[snip]

> Last August [1], I offered this alternative:
>
> ?self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if isinstance(cmd, str) else
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?cmd)
>
> But it didn't get much love in this forum!

I'd probably go for that one as well though I might consider removing
the outer parentheses.

-- 
Gerald Britton


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 11:07:52 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:07:52 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c4256$0$21794$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> 
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>     self.cmd = cmd

What could "cmd" be except a string ? From other posts here, I guess 
it's either a string or None ? If yes, then I'd go for this:

if cmd:
   cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)

self.cmd = cmd





From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb  5 11:17:15 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:17:15 -0800
Subject: How Uninstall MatPlotLib?
Message-ID: <hkhgae$o1b$1@news.eternal-september.org>

See Subject.


From andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:21:47 2010
From: andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com (Andrew Degtiariov)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:21:47 +0200
Subject: Import question
Message-ID: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>

Code of our project has split into several packages and we deploy the
project using buildout.
All worked fine until I need to dynamically inspect python modules.

Here is structure of our src directory


????project.api.config
?   ????project
?   ?   ????api
?   ?       ????config
?   ?           ????settings
?   ????project.api.config.egg-info
????project.api.contacts
?   ????project
?   ?   ????api
?   ?       ????contacts
?   ?           ????importer
?   ?           ????views
?   ????project.api.contacts.egg-info
????project.api.core
?   ????project
?   ?   ????api
?   ?       ????core
?   ?           ????js
?   ?           ????lib
?   ?           ????management
?   ?           ?   ????commands
?   ?           ????middleware
?   ?           ????sessions
?   ?           ????users
?   ????project.api.core.egg-info


Buildout by itself generates bin/python which look like:
import sys

sys.path[0:0] = [
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\src\\project.api.core',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\src\\project.api.config',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\src\\project.api.contacts',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\eggs\\lockfile-0.8-py2.6.egg',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\parts\\django',
  'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\eggs\\web.py-0.33-py2.6.egg',
....

Regular code like "import project.api.config" worked fine, but now I'm tryed
__import__('project.api.config'):

$ bin/python

>>> import project.api.config
>>> __import__('project.api.config')
<module 'project from
'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>
>>>

What's wrong?
Ok, I'm trying imp:
>>> import imp
>>> imp.find_module('project.api.config')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named project.api.config
>>> import sys
>>> sys.path[1]
'c:\\users\\ad\\project\\src\\project.api.config'
>>> imp.find_module('project.api.config', sys.path[1])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No frozen submodule named
c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.config.project.api.config
>>>

There is setup.py for project.api.config:

import os
from setuptools import setup, find_packages

name = "project.api.config"
install_requires = [
        'zc.buildout',
        'setuptools',
        'web.py>=0.33',
        'project.api.core',
        'Django>=1.1.0',
        'lockfile'
]

if sys.platform != 'win32':
    install_requires.append('python-daemon')

setup(
    name = name,
    version = "1.0",
    author = "Andrew Degtiariov",
    author_email = "andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com",
    description = "...",
    license = "Commercial",
    packages=find_packages(os.path.dirname(__file__), exclude=['ez_setup']),
    namespace_packages=['project, 'project.api'],
    include_package_data=True,
    zip_safe=False,
    install_requires = install_requires
)

What's wrong? We really need to split the code for several eggs and want
that all of our package's names starts from 'project.api'

--
Andrew Degtiariov
DA-RIPE
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From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb  5 11:22:56 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:22:56 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
	<mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C45E0.1000309@optimum.net>

On 2/5/2010 11:06 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> Last August [1], I offered this alternative:
>>
>>   self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>>               if isinstance(cmd, str) else
>>               cmd)
>>
>> But it didn't get much love in this forum!
>
> I'd probably go for that one as well though I might consider removing
> the outer parentheses.

Agreed ... except that you *need* the outer parentheses if the statement 
occupies multiple source lines.

-John




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb  5 11:23:57 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 08:23:57 -0800
Subject: Wrap a function
References: <38336c6d-c82d-4b83-96c9-5f1210132027@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1885.1265261952.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkfo3s$5bc$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.1944.1265367378.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkhgmt$gav$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1944.1265367378.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 4 Feb 2010 16:18:04 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>> 
>> But in bash scripting, you'd just use rsync or cp or rm -- maybe an
>> example would make clearer how REXX differs from bash.
>
>	I suspect the only really good examples would have to written under
>OS/VMS (where it originated, written to be a more powerful & friendlier
>replacement for the EXEC scripting language) or AmigaOS -- to
>demonstrate the switching interaction of command handlers. REXX
>implementations for Windows and Linux pretty much only support the
>"shell" as a command handler, whereas the two named OS could address
>editors (and on the Amiga, word processors, desktop publishing programs,
>terminal emulators/comm programs, system editor).
>
>	My Amiga's been in storage since Win95 days, so this is a fictitious
>example based on the reference manuals.
>
>address command	/* use normal command shell to process commands */
>file = 'some.file'
>'run ed' file	/* start ED editor in background, editing 'file'*/
>address ED	/* send commands to the ED instance */
>'b'		/* go to bottom of file */
>'i /text to be inserted before bottom line/'
>'t'		/* to to top */
>'a /text inserted after first line/'
>find = 'needle'
>replace = 'thorn'
>'rpe /' || find || '/' || replace '/'
>'x'	/* save & exit */
>address command
>'type' file		/* type file to screen */
>'filenote' file "edited via AREXX script"

IOW, kinda like AppleScript?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:27:35 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:27:35 +0100
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkhgru$6a8$1@ger.gmane.org>

W. eWatson wrote:
> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each point is a 
> line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing the direction of 
> motion. There should be x-y coordinates axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??

Pycairo?



From jarausch at skynet.be  Fri Feb  5 11:31:08 2010
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:31:08 +0100
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
In-Reply-To: <e8538cbc-a0db-4606-870b-37eeeaaa7410@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavnnans.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<41180c75-38df-4950-8b4e-aad574f98ded@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87636bn8jw.fsf@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
	<4ae7195a-d3ec-4886-9123-de88641aa797@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<e8538cbc-a0db-4606-870b-37eeeaaa7410@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c47cb$0$2865$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

On 02/05/10 14:39, Ashok Prabhu wrote:
> On Feb 5, 6:33 pm, Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 5, 5:58 pm, Alain Ketterlin <al... at dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ashok Prabhu <ashokprab... at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
>>
>>>>> Use Popen(['/usr/...','-d'],stdout=PIPE), i.e., no shell.
>>
>>>>> -- Alain.
>>>> Thanks for the response. However it throws an error. Please find
>>>> below.
>>
>>>>>>> from subprocess import *
>>>>>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE)
>>
>>> You forgot to change the monolithic command into a list of words. Since
>>> you don't use the shell anymore you have to give Popen a pre-parsed
>>> command line.
>>
>>> -- Alain.
>>
>> Here is the error again
>>
>>>>> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d',stdout=PIPE)
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/subprocess.py", line 494, in __init__
>>     raise TypeError("bufsize must be an integer")
>> TypeError: bufsize must be an integer
>>
>> ~Ashok.
> 
> Oops i missed the braces. But still no output.
> 
> 
>>>> p1=Popen(['/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk','-d'],stdout=PIPE)
>>>> while 1:
> ...  a=p1.stdout.readline()
> ...  print a
> ...

I've tried

#!/usr/bin/python
import subprocess
p1= subprocess.Popen(['/bin/ls','/LOCAL/'],stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
for line in p1.stdout :
  print ">>>",line

which works just fine.

Are you sure, your /usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk writes a newline character (readline is waiting for that)?

Helmut.

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:31:52 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:31:52 -0500
Subject: list.extend([]) Question
In-Reply-To: <hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002050831r6233b751mcbc5f55fb9a2c1b4@mail.gmail.com>

I think it's because when you do ['a'].extend([]) or whatever, the
result is whatever the method "extend" returns.  But "extend" has no
return value, hence you will see None if you do this interactively.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> In article <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57 at b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> Dan Brown ?<fsenzeru at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Why does extending a list with the empty list result in None? ?It
>>seems very counterintuitive to me, at least --- I expected ['a'].extend
>>([]) to result in ['a'], not None.
>
> http://www.python.org/doc/faq/general/#why-doesn-t-list-sort-return-the-sorted-list
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ? http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> import antigravity
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:34:13 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:34:13 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4b6c411b$0$20638$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>	<mailman.1968.1265385115.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c411b$0$20638$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hkhh8c$8qc$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> if cmd:
>>     self.cmd = cmd.replace..
> 
> And what if cmd happens to be the empty string ?-)
> 
> ok, me --->[]

Right, I didn't think much when I wrote that. Anyway, that's back to 
square one.

I will probably go for this anyway:

         assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, 'cmd has to 
be string or None'
         if cmd:
             cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
         self.cmd = cmd



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 11:40:38 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:40:38 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
	<hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C4A06.6010700@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> If you can change your program interface, then do it, if not then 
>> you're right you don't have much choice as you are suffering from the 
>> program poor interface.
>> You can fix this problem by explicitly asking for the thing you want 
>> to do, instead of guessing by inspecting the argument nature.
>>
>> myProg --help
>>
>> usage : myProg command [args]
>>    command list:
>>       - cmd: execute the given <arg1> command line
>>       - exec: execute the given script file named <arg1>
>>       - copy: copy <arg1> to <arg2>
>>
>> example:
>>  >myProg cmd "echo that's cool"
>>  >myProg exec /etc/init.d/myDaemon
>>  >myProg copy /tmp /tmp2
>>
>
> I sure can change the interface since I'm the author of the entire 
> program. But I don't see how I can arrange program in a different way: 
> the program is supposed to be called with -c parameter (command to 
> run), -s script to run, or -y file_or_dir_to_copy.
>
> Then, I start instances of SSHThread class to do precisely that, 
> separately for each ip/hostname:
>
>
> class SSHThread(threading.Thread):
>     def __init__(self, lock, cmd, ip, username, sshprivkey=None, 
> passw=None, port=22, script=None, remotedir=None):
>
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>
>         self.lock = lock
>         if isinstance(cmd, str):
>             self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>         else:
>             self.cmd = cmd
>         self.ip = ip
>         self.username = username
>         self.sshprivkey = sshprivkey
>         self.passw = passw
>         self.port = port
>         self.conobj = None
>         self.conerror = ''
>         self.msgstr = ''
>         self.confailed = True
>         if script:
>             self.setpathinfo(script, remotedir=remotedir)
>         self.sentbytes = 0
>         self.finished = False
>         self.abort = False
>
> It gets called like this:
>
> th = SSHThread(lock, opts.cmd, ip, username=username, 
> sshprivkey=opts.key, passw=passw, port=port, script=opts.script, 
> remotedir=opts.remotedir)
>
>
> ..where all the options are parsed by ConfigParser.OptionParser(). So 
> they are either strings, or Nones.
>
> So in this context this is fine. But I wanted to make the class more 
> robust. Perhaps I should do smth like this before setting self.cmd?
>
> assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, "cmd should be 
> string or None"
>
> and then:
>
> if cmd:
>     self.cmd = cmd.replace..
>
>
> ?
>
> Entire source code is here:
>
> http://python.domeny.com/cssh.py
>
> regards,
> mk
>

To be honest I have not enough courrage to dive into yout 1000 lines of 
script :-)

What I can say however:

1/ your interface is somehow broken. You ask actions through options (-c 
-y -s), meaning one can possibly use all these 3 options  together. Your 
code won't handle it (you are using elif statements). What happens if I 
use no option at all ? As the the optparse doc states : if an option is 
not optional, then it is not an option (it's a positional argument).

2/ executing a script, or copying a directory are both commands as well.
myProg -s /tmp/myscript.sh
is nothing more than
myProg -c '/bin/sh myscript.sh'

myProg -y file1
is nothing more than
myProg -c 'cp file1 towhatever'

3/ check your user parameters before creating your SSHThread, and create 
your SSHThread with already validated parameters. You don't want to 
pollute you SSHThread code with irrelevant user error check.


my humble conclusion:

1/ rewrite your interface with
prog command args [options]

2/ Simplify your SSHThread by handling only  shell commands

3/ at the CLI level (right after parameter validation), mute you copy & 
script
command to a shell command and pass it to SSHThread.

Cheers,

JM



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 11:42:43 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:42:43 +0100
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <hkhgru$6a8$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkhgru$6a8$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C4A83.7080802@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> W. eWatson wrote:
>> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each point 
>> is a line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing the direction 
>> of motion. There should be x-y coordinates axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??
>
> Pycairo?
>
turtle

http://docs.python.org/library/turtle.html


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb  5 11:44:02 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:44:02 +0100
Subject: list.extend([]) Question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1974.1265387514.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.1974.1265387514.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c4ad0$0$23943$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Gerald Britton a ?crit :
> I think it's because when you do ['a'].extend([]) or whatever, the
> result is whatever the method "extend" returns.  But "extend" has no
> return value

It does : it returns None.



From jurgenex at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:48:29 2010
From: jurgenex at hotmail.com (Jürgen Exner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:48:29 -0800
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2sk9fllvm.fsf@dhcpw80ff9506.dynamic.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <b1iom59726rj1qdd197u2dd2rd71bjdid1@4ax.com>

David Thole <dthole at gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>I read this....and am a tiny bit confused about the actual problem.
>
>It's not exactly complex to realize that something like:
>a = b = array
>that a and b both point to the array.

???
What are you talking about? First of all you should post actual code,
not pseudo-code because pseudo-code leads to misunderstandings. Did you
mean
	@a = @b = @array

Second what do you mean by "pointing"? That is a very ambiguous term. if
you do the assignment as written above then @a and @b will be _copies_
of @array. If you want two additional references to the same array
insted then you have to create that reference first and assign that
reference to $a and $b instead of copying the array, see "perldoc
perlref" for details. And remember, references are scalars, no matter if
they reference other scalars or arrays.

>Logically speaking, I'm not sure how one could assume that the same
>assignment would yield a and b point to the same duplicate array.  If

Now what? The same array or a duplicate array? Two very different and
mutually exclusive things.

>that was the case, why not do:
>a = array..
>b = array..

Which, after correcting the obvious syntax errors is the same as the
code above.

>I know with what you were complaining about a few days ago, .clear makes
>perfect sense.  If a and b point to the same array, clear should clear

They don't point, they are copies. And what do you mean by "clear"?

>both arrays.  Again, if you didn't want that to happen, create a
>duplicate array.

But that is what that code above does. If you want references then
create references.

jue


From sridharr at activestate.com  Fri Feb  5 11:50:10 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 08:50:10 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available
In-Reply-To: <C39018A0-AA67-4AA7-B230-9E380A08AE01@me.com>
References: <D44D6DB5-DB59-4AEE-B359-40A5D66FAAD7@activestate.com>
	<C39018A0-AA67-4AA7-B230-9E380A08AE01@me.com>
Message-ID: <7E38E471-25C3-49C9-B27F-2D4F0B355290@activestate.com>


On 2010-02-05, at 6:31 AM, Tommy Grav wrote:

> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 12:01 AM, Sridhar Ratnakumar wrote:
> 
>> I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.6.4.10 is now available for download from:
> 
>> On what platforms does ActivePython run?
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 
>> ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:
>> 
>> - Windows/x86
>> - Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
>> - Mac OS X
> 
> Is the Mac OS X version still only 32 bit?

Yes.

> If so does ActiveState plan to make binaries for 64bit builds
> for Snow Leopard?

No concrete plans yet, but we do intend to make 64 bit for Mac available eventually.

-srid

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From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb  5 11:51:31 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:51:31 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002050826h190c4d74y539745e7c855f1ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
	<mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C45E0.1000309@optimum.net>
	<5d1a32001002050826h190c4d74y539745e7c855f1ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C4C93.3050602@optimum.net>

On 2/5/2010 11:26 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
> sure, but it will fit nicely on one line if you like
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:22 AM, John Posner<jjposner at optimum.net>  wrote:
>    
>> On 2/5/2010 11:06 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
>>      
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Last August [1], I offered this alternative:
>>>>
>>>>   self.cmd = (cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
>>>>               if isinstance(cmd, str) else
>>>>               cmd)
>>>>
>>>> But it didn't get much love in this forum!
>>>>          
>>> I'd probably go for that one as well though I might consider removing
>>> the outer parentheses.
>>>        
>> Agreed ... except that you *need* the outer parentheses if the statement
>> occupies multiple source lines.
>>
>> -John
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>
>
>    
Did you mean to take this off-list?  Also, I'm contractually obligated 
to admonish you not to "top post".

At any rate, I proposed the 3-line format specifically because it 
separates the data values from the if-then-else machinery, making it 
easier (for me) to read. But there was considerable resistance to 
spending so much vertical space in the source code.

-John



From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Fri Feb  5 11:52:57 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:52:57 -0500
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <1265388777.3112.7.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 17:03 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
> implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
> structures ?
> I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not exist.
> Let say I have this very simple class:
> class Point:
>     def __init__(self, x, y):
>     self.x = x
>     self.y = y

You have to be more specific about what you want to do; "marshall" is a
fairly generic term.  XML-RPC isn't CORBA; typically you don't remote
persistent objects you just make individual calls.

> I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
> 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
> 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
> Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
> class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
> I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
> pointing me in the right direction.

You can use the loads and dumps methods to process the XML-RPC call
anyway you like.
<http://coils.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/coils/coils/file/22c023c8e0f5/src/coils/net/xmlrpc.py>
-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:53:33 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:53:33 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4C93.3050602@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>
	<mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B6C45E0.1000309@optimum.net>
	<5d1a32001002050826h190c4d74y539745e7c855f1ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6C4C93.3050602@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002050853s4621ca0dy9976609813cc4e3@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Did you mean to take this off-list?

Nope -- just hit the wrong key

?Also, I'm contractually obligated to
> admonish you not to "top post".

Contract?

>
> At any rate, I proposed the 3-line format specifically because it separates
> the data values from the if-then-else machinery, making it easier (for me)
> to read. But there was considerable resistance to spending so much vertical
> space in the source code.

Weird!  It's three lines and the original was four lines was it not>?

-- 
Gerald Britton


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:56:44 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:56:44 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhiij$d55$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

Why not dump the whole thing and use Pyro, which works beautifully and 
handles all the serialization business by itself, you get a Python 
object on the other side? Unless xmlrpc has to be at the other end, that is.




From giles.thomas at resolversystems.com  Fri Feb  5 12:04:10 2010
From: giles.thomas at resolversystems.com (Giles Thomas)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:04:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: Resolver One 1.8 released
Message-ID: <mailman.2039.1265465745.28905.python-announce-list@python.org>

We're proud to announce that we've just released version 1.8 of
Resolver One.  This version switches to IronPython 2.6, which gives us
support for Python 2.6 syntax along with some serious performance
improvements.

Resolver One is a Windows-based spreadsheet that integrates Python
deeply into its recalculation loop, making the models you build more
reliable and more maintainable.

In version 1.8, we've worked hard on improving performance above and
beyond the gains we got from IronPython 2.6, and we've also added a
number of new statistical functions, along with various minor bugfixes
and smaller enhancements.

You can read more about Resolver One here:

  <http://www.resolversystems.com/products/resolver-one/>

We have a 31-day free trial version, so if you would like to take a
look, you can download it from our website:

  <http://www.resolversystems.com/download/>

If you want to use Resolver One in an Open Source project, we offer
free licenses for that:

  <http://www.resolversystems.com/opensource/>


Best regards,

Giles
--
Giles Thomas
giles.thomas at resolversystems.com
+44 (0) 20 7253 6372

17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK
VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79
Registered in England and Wales as company number 5467329.
Registered address: 843 Finchley Road, London NW11 8NA, UK


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:07:11 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:07:11 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4A06.6010700@sequans.com>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>	<hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6C4A06.6010700@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhj66$gd2$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

 > To be honest I have not enough courrage to dive into yout 1000 lines of
 > script :-)

Understandable.

 > What I can say however:
 >
 > 1/ your interface is somehow broken. You ask actions through options (-c
 > -y -s), meaning one can possibly use all these 3 options  together. Your
 > code won't handle it (you are using elif statements). What happens if I
 > use no option at all ?

You get this:

Linux RH [17:35] root ~ # cssh.py -c "ps|wc" -s /tmp/s.sh

Following options that you specified are mutually exclusive:
-s / --script (value: /tmp/s.sh)
-c / --cmd (value: ps|wc)
You have to specify exactly one of options -c / --cmd, or -s / --script, 
or -y / --copy.

I wrote additional logic to handle such situations, I don't rely 
entirely on optparse.

 > 2/ executing a script, or copying a directory are both commands as well.
 > myProg -s /tmp/myscript.sh
 > is nothing more than
 > myProg -c '/bin/sh myscript.sh'

True. But you have to copy the script to remote machine in the first 
place. It's more convenient to do this using one option (copy to remote 
machine & execute there).

 > myProg -y file1
 > is nothing more than
 > myProg -c 'cp file1 towhatever'

Err but this is command to copy a local file/dir to *remote* machine. 
Like scp (in fact it uses scp protocol internally).

 >
 > 3/ check your user parameters before creating your SSHThread, and create
 > your SSHThread with already validated parameters. You don't want to
 > pollute you SSHThread code with irrelevant user error check.
 >
 >
 > my humble conclusion:
 >
 > 1/ rewrite your interface with
 > prog command args [options]
 >
 > 2/ Simplify your SSHThread by handling only  shell commands
 >
 > 3/ at the CLI level (right after parameter validation), mute you copy &
 > script
 > command to a shell command and pass it to SSHThread.
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 > JM
 >
 >



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:08:40 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:08:40 +0100
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4A83.7080802@sequans.com>
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkhgru$6a8$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6C4A83.7080802@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hkhj8v$gd2$2@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> mk wrote:
>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each point 
>>> is a line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing the direction 
>>> of motion. There should be x-y coordinates axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??
>>
>> Pycairo?
>>
> turtle
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/turtle.html

It's in standard library, and therefore Not Cool.

<duck>




From donn.ingle at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:19:06 2010
From: donn.ingle at gmail.com (donn)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:19:06 +0200
Subject: pyclutter anyone?
In-Reply-To: <4B6BD072.4080006@gmail.com>
References: <4B6BD072.4080006@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C530A.70303@gmail.com>

No one uses pyClutter?
I have some code, it does not work, but maybe this will start to help 
solve the problem:

import clutter
from clutter import cogl

x,y=0,0

def boo(tl,frame,obj):#,evt):
	global x,y
	obj.set_position(x, y)

def xy(obj,evt):
	global x,y
	x,y = evt.x,evt.y

class G(clutter.Group):
	"""
	Attempt to make a Group that can clip its children to a path.
	"""
	def __init__(self,*args):
		clutter.Group.__init__(self,*args)
		#self.set_clip(0,0,10,10)
		self.connect("paint",self.do_paint)
		self._color = clutter.Color(255,200,100)
	def do_paint(self, args):
		width,height=200,200
		cogl.path_move_to(width / 2, 0)
		cogl.path_line_to(width, height)
		cogl.path_line_to(0, height)
		cogl.path_line_to(width / 2, 0)
		cogl.path_close()
		#cogl.set_source_color(self._color)
		#cogl.path_fill()

		## Colour me lost from here...
		cogl.clip_push_from_path()
		clutter.Group.do_paint(self)
		cogl.clip_pop()

def main():
	global group1
	stage = clutter.Stage()
	stage.set_size(500, 500)
	stage.set_color(clutter.color_from_string("#FFF"))

	rect1, rect2, rect3 = clutter.Rectangle(), clutter.Rectangle(), 
clutter.Rectangle()
	group1, group2, group3 = G(), clutter.Group(), clutter.Group()

	group1.add(rect1, group2)
	group2.add(rect2, group3)
	group3.add(rect3)

	group1.set_position(100, 100)
	group2.set_position(100, 100)
	group3.set_position(100, 100)

	rect1.set_position(0, 0)
	rect2.set_position(0, 0)
	rect3.set_position(0, 0)

	rect1.set_size(150, 150)
	rect2.set_size(150, 150)
	rect3.set_size(150, 150)

	rect1.set_color(clutter.color_from_string("#FF000090"))
	rect2.set_color(clutter.color_from_string("#00FF0090"))
	rect3.set_color(clutter.color_from_string("#0000FF90"))

	stage.add(group1)

	stage.show_all()
	group1.show_all()
	group2.show_all()
	group3.show_all()

	stage.connect("key-press-event", clutter.main_quit)
	stage.connect('destroy', clutter.main_quit)
	stage.connect('motion-event', xy)

	path = clutter.Path('M 0 0 L 300 0 L 300 300 L 0 300z')
	timeline = clutter.Timeline(4000)
	timeline.set_loop(True)
	alpha = clutter.Alpha(timeline,clutter.EASE_OUT_SINE)
	p_behaviour = clutter.BehaviourPath(alpha, path)
	path.add_move_to(0, 0)
	p_behaviour.apply(group3)	

	timeline.add_marker_at_time("foo",2000)

	timeline.start()

	t=clutter.Timeline(1000)
	t.set_loop(True)
	t.connect('new-frame', boo, group1)
	t.start()

	clutter.main()

if __name__ == '__main__':
	main()

\d

-- 
Fonty Python and Things! -- http://otherwise.relics.co.za/wiki/Software


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:23:09 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:23:09 +0100
Subject: timer for a function
Message-ID: <hkhk45$jvp$1@ger.gmane.org>

I have the following situation:

1.

self.conobj = paramiko.SSHClient()

self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username, 
key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)

2. very slow SSH host that is hanging for 30+ seconds on key exchange.

The timeout in the options regards only a socket timeout, not further 
stages of connection negotiation, so it doesn't work there.

On paramiko mailing list I got the suggestion to build a timer and then 
quit this by myself:

> The timeout option in connect() is for the socket, not for the entire
> operation. You are connected, so that timeout is no longer relevant.
> You would probably have to wrap the transport.connect() method in a
> timer to break out of this early.

Question: how can I do that? Use another threaded class? Is there some 
other way?


Additional snag is SSHClient() is a class that internally uses threads. 
How do I kill brutally its threads? Is there any way to do it?

Regards,
mk



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:23:51 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:23:51 +0000
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
> two functions.

So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?

-- 
Arnaud


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 12:24:20 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:24:20 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
> implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
> structures ?
>
> I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not 
> exist.
>
> Let say I have this very simple class:
>
> class Point:
>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>    self.x = x
>    self.y = y
>
>
> I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
> 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
> 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
> Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
> class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
>
> I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
> pointing me in the right direction.
>
> JM
>
I realized I gave a poor example, actually the Point object is marshable 
(marshallable ? like to invent new words), xmlrpc will try to marshall 
using __dict__ if possible.

import os

class Point:
   def __init__(self, x, y):
   self.x = x
   self.y = y
   self.notMarshallable = os


JM


From tadmc at seesig.invalid  Fri Feb  5 12:25:34 2010
From: tadmc at seesig.invalid (Tad McClellan)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:25:34 -0600
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2sk9fllvm.fsf@dhcpw80ff9506.dynamic.uiowa.edu>
	<b1iom59726rj1qdd197u2dd2rd71bjdid1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnhmokto.s9v.tadmc@tadbox.sbcglobal.net>

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.perl.misc.]

J?rgen Exner <jurgenex at hotmail.com> wrote:
> David Thole <dthole at gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>>I read this....and am a tiny bit confused about the actual problem.
>>
>>It's not exactly complex to realize that something like:
>>a = b = array
>>that a and b both point to the array.
>
> ???
> What are you talking about? First of all you should post actual code,


First of all, we should not be feeding the troll!

actual code in one of Perl, Python or Lisp?


-- 
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:29:07 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <hkhkfa$jvp$2@ger.gmane.org>

Ethan Furman wrote:

> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/choose_python.pdf 
> 

Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored. 
Oh well..



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb  5 12:30:17 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:30:17 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <hkhiij$d55$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com> <hkhiij$d55$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C55A9.9000902@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>
> Why not dump the whole thing and use Pyro, which works beautifully and 
> handles all the serialization business by itself, you get a Python 
> object on the other side? Unless xmlrpc has to be at the other end, 
> that is.
>
>
Company stuff. We are all using the xmlrpc standard for our network code.

JM




From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb  5 12:30:46 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:30:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkhkk6$8iq$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-05, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each
> point is a line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing
> the direction of motion. There should be x-y coordinates
> axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??

I'd probably use gnuplot-py, but I'm probably biased since I've
been using gnuplot since way before I learned Python.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Hello, GORRY-O!!
                                  at               I'm a GENIUS from HARVARD!!
                               visi.com            


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:30:50 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:30:50 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkhkig$jvp$3@ger.gmane.org>

Julian wrote:

> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.

Dictionaries.

A workhorse of Python, by far the most useful data structure.




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:35:39 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:35:39 +0100
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <hkhj66$gd2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>	<hkhepq$unb$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6C4A06.6010700@sequans.com>
	<hkhj66$gd2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkhkrh$jvp$4@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> 
>  > What I can say however:
>  >
>  > 1/ your interface is somehow broken. You ask actions through options (-c
>  > -y -s), meaning one can possibly use all these 3 options  together. Your
>  > code won't handle it (you are using elif statements). What happens if I
>  > use no option at all ?


Arrgh this is my bad day. You get this:

Linux RH [17:35] root ~ # cssh.py -i linux

You have to specify exactly one of the following:
  - command to run remotely, using -c command / --cmd command, or
  - script to run remotely, using -s scriptfile / --script scriptfile, or
  - file/directory to copy, using -y file_or_dir / --copy file_or_dir



From bradallen137 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:48:24 2010
From: bradallen137 at gmail.com (Brad Allen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:48:24 -0600
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
In-Reply-To: <4B6C3DEC.9030109@sequans.com>
References: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6C3DEC.9030109@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4957f1ef1002050948i49816576nfe2f614a36d17cb1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant
<jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> Anyway why would you want to use the tuple form ? it's beaten in every
> aspect by the dictionary form.

I'm subclassing a namedtuple, and adding some additional functionality
such as __getitem__, __setitem__, so that the namedtuple also behaves
like a dict.


From charles at declareSub.com  Fri Feb  5 12:55:58 2010
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:55:58 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
Message-ID: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>

I am so far unable to find the information I want about the Exception  
class.  Information like the signature of __init__ seems to be  
unavailable.  Any suggestions where I might find such information?


Charles Yeomans


From cjblaine at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 12:58:52 2010
From: cjblaine at gmail.com (cjblaine)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 09:58:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modules failing to add runtime library path info at link time
References: <9f8197ae-d371-431b-b4bd-8e3f4d6f0998@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1763.1265072455.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<303e1371-bc77-4cc8-bbbf-bddfd610fad9@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<8167cbe0-d099-4a0b-804e-6e91817197ec@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <382f9f94-e863-4511-a824-b03225135faa@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 1, 11:35?pm, cjblaine <cjbla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 1, 11:04?pm, cjblaine <cjbla... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 1, 8:00?pm, Christian Heimes <li... at cheimes.de> wrote:
>
> > > cjblaine wrote:
> > > > Where/how can I configure the appropriate portion of our Python
> > > > install to do 100% the right thing instead of just 50% (-L)?
>
> > > Python's distutils doesn't alter the library search path unless you tell
> > > it explicitly.
>
> > > > A specific example -- note the -L and lack of -R (Solaris build):
>
> > > > % python setup.py build
> > > > ....
> > > > gcc -shared build/temp.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/pgmodule.o -L/afs/rcf/
> > > > apps/catchall/lib -lpq -o build/lib.solaris-2.10-sun4u-2.6/_pg.so
> > > > %
>
> > > The Extension() class supports the rpath argument. Simply add
> > > rpath="/path/to/library/dir" and you are good.
>
> > > Christian
>
> > Thanks for the reply.
>
> > So, python setup.py build rpath="/whatever/lib" ?
>
> Replying to myself:
>
> No. ?Actually, Christian, it looks like it's runtime_library_dirs?
>
> class Extension:
> ...
> ? ? ? runtime_library_dirs : [string]
> ? ? ? ? list of directories to search for C/C++ libraries at run time
> ? ? ? ? (for shared extensions, this is when the extension is loaded)
>
> So, how does one inject that into, I assume, setup.cfg ? ?Ideally it
> could be done via the build command-line, but I don't see a way to do
> that when browsing python setup.py build --help
>
> ( there is no setup.cfg provided in the PyGreSQL source tree, to )
> ( continue that example case ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? )

Anyone?


From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Fri Feb  5 13:11:17 2010
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (Laszlo Nagy)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:11:17 +0100
Subject: Editor for Python
Message-ID: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>


   Hi All,

I know that this question was put up on this list a thousand times. I 
know that most of the editors are listed here: 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors

I already tried most of them. But still, I need something that is not 
listed there. Requirements:

    * starts and works fast
    * has code folding, displays identation guides
    * auto completion
    * class browser
    * source code browser (e.g. a list of definitions, when you click it
      jumps to the definition
    * integration with pychecker or pylint
    * UTF-8 files
    * free, or not-so-expensive
    * works on linux and windows

The one I'm using now is Geany. It does everything, except class browser 
and pychecker/pylint. Now maybe, I can install (or write??) a geany 
extension that would allow me to use pychecker. But I could not find 
information on that. There where others I tried (PyPE, DrPython, 
KomodoEdit, Editra etc.) but all of them failed for some reason. Can you 
please suggest another editor that I could try? Or send me a link that 
tells how to write or install pychecked plugin for Geany.

Thanks,

    Laszlo

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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb  5 13:20:40 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:20:40 +0000
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com> <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C6178.2010002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
>> implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
>> structures ?
>>
>> I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not 
>> exist.
>>
>> Let say I have this very simple class:
>>
>> class Point:
>>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>>    self.x = x
>>    self.y = y
>>
>>
>> I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
>> 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
>> 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
>> Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
>> class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
>>
>> I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
>> pointing me in the right direction.
>>
>> JM
>>
> I realized I gave a poor example, actually the Point object is marshable 
> (marshallable ? like to invent new words), xmlrpc will try to marshall 
> using __dict__ if possible.
> 
"marshallable". Just pick a verb and add -able.

There was an advertisement by British Gas in which someone said that his
gas central heating was very turn-off-and-on-able! :-)

> import os
> 
> class Point:
>   def __init__(self, x, y):
>   self.x = x
>   self.y = y
>   self.notMarshallable = os
> 


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb  5 13:26:23 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:26:23 -0500
Subject: which
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1980.1265388814.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4B6C3C55.5040907@optimum.net>	<mailman.1971.1265386017.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4B6C45E0.1000309@optimum.net>	<5d1a32001002050826h190c4d74y539745e7c855f1ee@mail.gmail.com>	<4B6C4C93.3050602@optimum.net>
	<mailman.1980.1265388814.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C62CF.9090902@optimum.net>

On 2/5/2010 11:53 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:
>   Also, I'm contractually obligated to
>> admonish you not to "top post".
>
> Contract?

Joke. (I know it's hard to tell.)

>
>>
>> At any rate, I proposed the 3-line format specifically because it separates
>> the data values from the if-then-else machinery, making it easier (for me)
>> to read. But there was considerable resistance to spending so much vertical
>> space in the source code.
>
> Weird!  It's three lines and the original was four lines was it not>?

Yes, but most people (including you, right?) seemed to think that 
conditional expressions are best confined to a single line.

I proposed my 3-line alternative for expressions that *cannot* 
reasonably be confined to a single line.

-John






From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 13:41:52 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:41:52 -0500
Subject: Editor for Python
In-Reply-To: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>
References: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002051041od360fd1qe46a1ba8593df7ff@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/5 Laszlo Nagy <gandalf at shopzeus.com>:
>
> ? Hi All,
>
> I know that this question was put up on this list a thousand times. I know
> that most of the editors are listed here:
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>
> I already tried most of them. But still, I need something that is not listed
> there. Requirements:
>
> starts and works fast
> has code folding, displays identation guides
> auto completion
> class browser
> source code browser (e.g. a list of definitions, when you click it jumps to
> the definition
> integration with pychecker or pylint
> UTF-8 files
> free, or not-so-expensive
> works on linux and windows
>
> The one I'm using now is Geany. It does everything, except class browser and
> pychecker/pylint. Now maybe, I can install (or write??) a geany extension
> that would allow me to use pychecker. But I could not find information on
> that. There where others I tried (PyPE, DrPython, KomodoEdit, Editra etc.)
> but all of them failed for some reason. Can you please suggest another
> editor that I could try? Or send me a link that tells how to write or
> install pychecked plugin for Geany.
>
> Thanks,
>
> ?? Laszlo
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

I use Geany too.  It lets me see the classes in my module, though not
within a package (Is that what you mean)?  You'd probably have to
write a plugin to support pychecker or pylint though I believe that
its not too difficult.  Who knows?  Perhaps someone already has such a
plugin that you can use.

-- 
Gerald Britton


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 13:44:03 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:44:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SQLite3: preventing new file creation
Message-ID: <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Every time I say something like:

connection=sqlite3.connect(file)

sqlite creates a new database file. Can this behavior be suppressed
through SQLite? Or am I forced to check for the file existing first?

-- Gnarlie


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb  5 14:04:34 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:04:34 -0800
Subject: How Uninstall MatPlotLib?
In-Reply-To: <hkhgae$o1b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkhgae$o1b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkhq44$hvd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/5/2010 8:17 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> See Subject.
I'm working in IDLE in Win7. It seems to me it gets stuck in 
site-packages under C:\Python25. Maybe this is as simple as deleting the 
entry?

Well, yes there's a MPL folder under site-packages and an info MPL file 
of 540 bytes. There  are  also pylab.py, pyc,and py0 files under site.


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 14:13:36 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:13:36 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
In-Reply-To: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
References: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Charles Yeomans <charles at declaresub.com> wrote:
> I am so far unable to find the information I want about the Exception class.
> ?Information like the signature of __init__ seems to be unavailable. ?Any
> suggestions where I might find such information?
>
>
> Charles Yeomans
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Though not documented, some silly tests indicate that it will accept
pretty much anything:

>>> Exception(1,2,4,54)
Exception(1, 2, 4, 54)
>>> Exception(*range(10))
Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
>>> Exception(*range(50))
Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33,
34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49)
>>> Exception('a','b','c','d','e')
Exception('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e')
>>> Exception(Exception(1))
Exception(Exception(1,),)

-- 
Gerald Britton


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Feb  5 14:53:08 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:53:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
Message-ID: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
verbNoun?

For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
should probably pick one way and stick with it.

Thanks


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 14:55:25 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:55:25 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hkht3o$k51$1@ger.gmane.org>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>> two functions.
> 
> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
> 
If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.

I statement that calls one of two functions depending on the value of a
Boolean is normally considered to be better coupling than calling a
single function with the Boolean as an argument.

As with everything else you have to apply a certain amount of common sense.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:00:45 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:00:45 -0500
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002051200n11f02e65re43ad5291bbbf951@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
>
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> Thanks
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

I'd say noun_verb (note the underscore in accordance with the style
guide in PEP 8):

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/

Function Names

      Function names should be lowercase, with words separated by underscores
      as necessary to improve readability.

      mixedCase is allowed only in contexts where that's already the
      prevailing style (e.g. threading.py), to retain backwards compatibility.

-- 
Gerald Britton


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:14:51 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:14:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
Message-ID: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
stupid.
I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
than log N.

def power(A,N,M):
    ret=1
    while(N):
        if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
        A=(A*A)%M
        N=N//2
    return ret


From awilliam at opengroupware.us  Fri Feb  5 15:15:42 2010
From: awilliam at opengroupware.us (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:15:42 -0500
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com>  <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <1265400942.3301.14.camel@linux-m3mt>

On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 18:24 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> > Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
> > implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
> > structures ?
> > I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not 
> > exist.
> > Let say I have this very simple class:
> > class Point:
> >    def __init__(self, x, y):
> >    self.x = x
> >    self.y = y
> > I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
> > 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
> > 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
> > Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
> > class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
> > I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
> > pointing me in the right direction.
> I realized I gave a poor example, actually the Point object is marshable 
> (marshallable ? like to invent new words), xmlrpc will try to marshall 
> using __dict__ if possible.
> import os
> class Point:
>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>    self.x = x
>    self.y = y
>    self.notMarshallable = os

This example doesn't make any sense.  Why would you set a variable equal
to an important module in a class named Point?

What is it you are actually trying to accomplish?  If you are trying to
create an object publishing environment then maybe something like -

rpc = xmlrpclib.loads(payload, use_datetime=True)
method = rpc[1].split('.')
classname   = method[0]
methodname = method[1]
parameters  = rpc[0]
classclass = eval(classname)
handler = classclass()
call = getattr(handler, method_name)
result = apply(call, parameters)
result = xmlrpclib.dumps(tuple([result]), methodresponse=True)

Obviously add copious amounts of exception handling and a security
model.
-- 
OpenGroupware developer: awilliam at whitemice.org
<http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/>
OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @
<http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view>



From nagle at animats.com  Fri Feb  5 15:16:46 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:16:46 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

kj wrote:
...
> 
> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py. 

    The right answer to this is to make module search return an
error if two modules satisfy the search criteria.  "First find"
isn't a good solution.

				John Nagle


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:18:42 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:18:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5630ef4a-28c0-4efd-9d4f-a7b8aab28cb3@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 8:14?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
> stupid.
> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> is (A**N)%M but my ?A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> 10^5. The other approach ? was ?repeated squaring and taking mod of
> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> than log N.
>
> def power(A,N,M):
> ? ? ret=1
> ? ? while(N):
> ? ? ? ? if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
> ? ? ? ? A=(A*A)%M
> ? ? ? ? N=N//2
> ? ? return ret

The built-in pow function does exactly this, if you give it three
arguments:

>>> pow(12345, 67891, 17)
10
>>> 12345 ** 67891 % 17
10L

(Though this won't work for negative N.)

Mark


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:19:26 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:19:26 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002051219v65760f7co276617dd6422952b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:16 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:

> kj wrote:
>
>> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
>> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
>> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
>> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.
>>
>
>   The right answer to this is to make module search return an
> error if two modules satisfy the search criteria.  "First find"
> isn't a good solution.
>

And thereby slowdown every single import and application startup time as the
common case of finding a module in one of the first couple entries in
sys.path now has to search it in every single item on that path. Its not
uncommon to have a LOT of things on sys.path.

No thanks. "First Find" is good enough, especially with PEP328 and
absolute_import being on in Python 3 (and presumably 2.7). It doesn't really
help older Python versions unfortunately, but changing how import works
wouldn't help them anyways. Yeah, there might be two paths on sys.path which
both have a 'numbers.py' at the top level and First Find might return the
wrong one, but... people making poor decisions on code organization and not
using packages isn't something the language really needs to fix.

--S
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From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:21:13 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:21:13 -0500
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002051221r2b4ffadak442492bac6debb40@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 3:14 PM, mukesh tiwari
<mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
> stupid.
> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> is (A**N)%M but my ?A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> 10^5. The other approach ? was ?repeated squaring and taking mod of
> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> than log N.
>
> def power(A,N,M):
> ? ?ret=1
> ? ?while(N):
> ? ? ? ?if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
> ? ? ? ?A=(A*A)%M
> ? ? ? ?N=N//2
> ? ?return ret
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/decimal.html#decimal.Context.power

-- 
Gerald Britton


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb  5 15:26:38 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:26:38 -0800
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002051226o50d4ff02u101d8c362ae0d1ea@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
>
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.

Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
[2] http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb  5 15:26:44 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:26:44 +0000
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C7F04.1090002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Wanderer wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
> 
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
> 
I would use the 'normal' order, which in this case is 'get_voltage'.


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Feb  5 15:28:37 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:28:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<5630ef4a-28c0-4efd-9d4f-a7b8aab28cb3@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a9521891-f9b7-409d-a9af-db599d1eb250@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 2:18?pm, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 8:14?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
> > stupid.
> > I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> > is (A**N)%M but my ?A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> > 10^5. The other approach ? was ?repeated squaring and taking mod of
> > expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> > than log N.
>
> > def power(A,N,M):
> > ? ? ret=1
> > ? ? while(N):
> > ? ? ? ? if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
> > ? ? ? ? A=(A*A)%M
> > ? ? ? ? N=N//2
> > ? ? return ret
>
> The built-in pow function does exactly this,

It doesn't do 'exactly' that. M is the number of digits.
If you want 17 digits, the third number should 10**17.
Using 17 directly will give you a 2-digit answer as shown.

Try this instead:

>>> pow(12345,67891,10**17)
50553131103515625


> if you give it three
> arguments:
>
> >>> pow(12345, 67891, 17)
> 10
> >>> 12345 ** 67891 % 17
>
> 10L
>
> (Though this won't work for negative N.)
>
> Mark



From jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 15:39:07 2010
From: jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com (jonny lowe)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:39:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1265336437.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0ec3e55a-90b6-4d49-89b5-6a5721d366b5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 8:20?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 01:56 am, jonny.lowe.12... at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >Hi everyone,
>
> >Is there an easy way to mergestdinandstdout? For instance suppose I
> >havescriptthat prompts for a number and prints the number. If you
> >execute this with redirection from a file say input.txt with 42 in the
> >file, then executing
>
> >./myscript < input.txt > output.txt
>
> >the output.txt might look like this:
>
> >Enter a number:
> >You entered 42.
>
> >What I want is to have an easy way to merge input.txt and thestdout
> >so that output.txt look like:
>
> >Enter a number: 42
> >You entered 42.
>
> >Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.
>
> It sounds like you might be looking forscript(1)?
>
> Jean-Paul

Hi Jean-Paul,

I tried it. But stdin is not merged in with stdout. Maybe I'm using
script wrongly? This is what I've done. I have a python script y.
Here's what it looks like when I run it and I entered "sss":

$ ./y
gimme x:sss
you entered sss

Now I'm going to use the script command. I'm using an input file
input.txt that contains just the string "hello".

$ script -c "./y < input.txt" output.txt
Script started, file is output.txt
gimme x:you entered hello
Script done, file is output.txt

And when I view output.txt this is what I see:

$ less output.txt
Script started on Thu Feb  4 22:28:12 2010
gimme x:you entered hello

Script done on Thu Feb  4 22:28:13 2010

As you can see the stdin is not printed. What I'd really wanted was
something like this in output.txt:

gimme x:hello
you entered hello

-jon


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb  5 15:44:58 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:44:58 +0000
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002051219v65760f7co276617dd6422952b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>	<4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7a9c25c21002051219v65760f7co276617dd6422952b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C834A.7020801@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:16 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com 
> <mailto:nagle at animats.com>> wrote:
> 
>     kj wrote:
> 
>         Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
>         root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
>         as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
>         unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py.
> 
> 
>       The right answer to this is to make module search return an
>     error if two modules satisfy the search criteria.  "First find"
>     isn't a good solution.
> 
> 
> And thereby slowdown every single import and application startup time as 
> the common case of finding a module in one of the first couple entries 
> in sys.path now has to search it in every single item on that path. Its 
> not uncommon to have a LOT of things on sys.path.
>  
> No thanks. "First Find" is good enough, especially with PEP328 and 
> absolute_import being on in Python 3 (and presumably 2.7). It doesn't 
> really help older Python versions unfortunately, but changing how import 
> works wouldn't help them anyways. Yeah, there might be two paths on 
> sys.path which both have a 'numbers.py' at the top level and First Find 
> might return the wrong one, but... people making poor decisions on code 
> organization and not using packages isn't something the language really 
> needs to fix.
> 
You might want to write a script that looks through the search paths for
duplicated names, especially ones which hide modules in the standard
library. Has anyone done this already?


From python at rcn.com  Fri Feb  5 15:53:51 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 12:53:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
References: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <649b3c62-f228-4fc1-9913-2dbe4d253788@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 6:57?am, bradallen <bradallen... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> For container class derived from namedtuple, but which also behaves
> like a dictionary by implementing __getitem__ for non-integer index
> values, is there a special reserved method which allows intercepting %
> string formatting operations? I would like for my container type to
> behave appropriately depending on whether the string formatting
> operation has a string like this :
>
> "whatever %s yadayada" % mycontainer ?# needs to act like a tuple
>
> "whatever %(key)s yadayada" % mycontainer ?# needs to act like a
> dictionary


The implementation for str.__mod__ refuses to
treat tuples and tuple subclasses as a dictionary.
Since namedtuples are a subclass of tuple, you're
not going to have any luck with this one.

To see actual C code, look at PyString_Format() in
http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/stringobject.c?view=markup

	PyObject *dict = NULL;
          . . .
	if (Py_TYPE(args)->tp_as_mapping && !PyTuple_Check(args) &&
	    !PyObject_TypeCheck(args, &PyBaseString_Type))
		dict = args;

Since automatic conversion is out, you can instead use
the namedtuple._asdict() method for an explicit conversion:

>>> from collections import namedtuple
>>> Point = namedtuple('Point', 'x y')
>>> p = Point(5, 12)
>>> 'x: %(x)s' % p._asdict()
'x: 5'


Raymond


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 16:03:15 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:03:15 -0600
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <4B6B5C72.8080100@stoneleaf.us>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>	<a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6B5C72.8080100@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <hki12h$le$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-04 17:46 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
>> On 2010-02-04 14:55 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>> On Feb 3, 3:39 pm, Steve Holden<st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>>>> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> all of Python in an hour.
>>>>
>>>>> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable
>>>>> chance of
>>>>> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
>>>>> It's just exposition.
>>>>
>>>> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't
>>>> explained it.
>>>
>>> On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
>>> would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
>>> than that time to truly understand everything that was said.
>>
>> Like I said, that's exposition, not explanation. There is an important
>> distinction between the two words. Simply providing information is not
>> explanation. If it takes four hours for your audience to understand
>> it, then you explained it in four hours no matter when you stopped
>> talking.
>
> And if it takes six months? Would you seriously say it took you six
> months to explain something because it took that long for your audience
> to understand it?
>
> At some point you have to make the transition from person A explaining
> and person(s) B understanding -- they don't necessarily happen
> synchronously.

Then it's exposition and understanding, not explanation and understanding.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Fri Feb  5 16:09:55 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:09:55 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D168C976DFBAduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<mailman.1950.1265376253.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D168C976DFBAduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <4B6C8923.3090501@bluewin.ch>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Anthra Norell <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>   
>>> Using pythonw.exe will start the program with all error output dumped in
>>> the bit bucket. Running from a command prompt with python.exe will at
>>> least let you see if there are any errors. 
>>>   
>>>       
>> python.exe from the command line works all right in a DOS window. The 
>> problem must be with  idle.pyw. I tried the old idle.pyw (2.4) with the 
>> new python.exe. (2.5) and that didn't work either.
>> What is the bit bucket? If I had a clue, I could go from there. What 
>> puzzles me is that version 2.4 has been working fine and one wouldn't 
>> think that the changes from 2.4 to 2.5 would be so extensive as to cause 
>> a major malfunction. For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 
>> 2.5, though, because it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 
>> cannot even use it.
>>     
>
> Bit bucket: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_bucket
>
> If you are seeing nothing at all when running it with python.exe instead of 
> pythonw.exe then something bizarre must be happening.
>
> My guess would have been that you had a problem importing something: e.g. 
> if Tkinter isn't installed properly then running Idle under pythonw.exe 
> would exit with an error message but you wouldn't see the error message. 
> However since you don't see an error message when running it with 
> python.exe it isn't that.
>
> Sorry, I'm out of ideas for now.
>
>   
No matter. I'll just keep working with 2.4. The machine is on its way 
out anyway. I have a brand new Dell Latitude E6500 without an operating 
system waiting to be set up with Linux. That'll take some time. Thank 
you for your suggestions.

Frederic



From bcb at undisclosedlocation.net  Fri Feb  5 16:22:25 2010
From: bcb at undisclosedlocation.net (Bruce C. Baker)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:22:25 -0600
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
	<de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <l_%an.72$zN4.36@newsfe05.iad>


"George Sakkis" <george.sakkis at gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064 at j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...


I'll give the benefit of doubt and assume you're joking rather than
trolling.

George

*************************************************************

Not trolling, my friend!

GvR got it right when he discarded the superfluous semicolons from the ends 
of statements--and then he ADDS superfluous colons to the ends of control 
statements? It will probably be as much of a shock to you as it was to me 
when I learned after studying parsing that colons, semicolons, "then"'s and 
"do"'s, etc.,  are simply noise tokens that serve no purpose except to 
clutter up the source.

As for enforced indentation, back in the late 60's when I was a programming 
newbie I remember thinking how cool it would be to just indent the 
statements controlled by for loops (we didn't have none of them fancy while 
loops in FORTRAN back then! :-) )  Not too long after that I saw the havoc 
that a buggy editor could wreak on nicely-formatted source. :-( Formatting 
held hostage to a significant, invisible whitespace char? An inevitable 
accident waiting to happen! Not good, Guido; not good at all.

That'll do for starters. :-)





From aharrisreid at googlemail.com  Fri Feb  5 16:26:20 2010
From: aharrisreid at googlemail.com (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:26:20 +0000
Subject: Editor for Python
In-Reply-To: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>
References: <4B6C5F45.8010200@shopzeus.com>
Message-ID: <4B6C8CFC.8020507@googlemail.com>


Hi Laszlo,

I use Wing IDE (not free, $35 for personal edition) and PyScripter 
(free).  I find both good, for different reasons.

Regards,
Alan

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Laszlo Nagy wrote:
>
>   Hi All,
>
> I know that this question was put up on this list a thousand times. I 
> know that most of the editors are listed here: 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>
> I already tried most of them. But still, I need something that is not 
> listed there. Requirements:
>
>     * starts and works fast
>     * has code folding, displays identation guides
>     * auto completion
>     * class browser
>     * source code browser (e.g. a list of definitions, when you click
>       it jumps to the definition
>     * integration with pychecker or pylint
>     * UTF-8 files
>     * free, or not-so-expensive
>     * works on linux and windows
>
> The one I'm using now is Geany. It does everything, except class 
> browser and pychecker/pylint. Now maybe, I can install (or write??) a 
> geany extension that would allow me to use pychecker. But I could not 
> find information on that. There where others I tried (PyPE, DrPython, 
> KomodoEdit, Editra etc.) but all of them failed for some reason. Can 
> you please suggest another editor that I could try? Or send me a link 
> that tells how to write or install pychecked plugin for Geany.
>
> Thanks,
>
>    Laszlo
>

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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Feb  5 16:39:46 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:39:46 -0800
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <hki12h$le$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkcr3o$hdt$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.1871.1265240417.28905.python-list@python.org>	<a9e18569-ee27-4259-9de6-8ec04cd9b268@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hkfjbc$j1i$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B6B5C72.8080100@stoneleaf.us>
	<hki12h$le$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6C9022.5050604@stoneleaf.us>

Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-04 17:46 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>> On 2010-02-04 14:55 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>> On Feb 3, 3:39 pm, Steve Holden<st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>>>> Robert Kern wrote:
>>>>>> On 2010-02-03 15:32 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can explain all of Python in an hour; I doubt anyone will
>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>> all of Python in an hour.
>>>>>
>>>>>> With all respect, talking about a subject without a reasonable
>>>>>> chance of
>>>>>> your audience understanding the subject afterwards is not explaining.
>>>>>> It's just exposition.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree. If the audience doesn't understand then you haven't
>>>>> explained it.
>>>>
>>>> On the contrary, that explanation would have everything you need. It
>>>> would take an hour to read or listen to the explanation, but much more
>>>> than that time to truly understand everything that was said.
>>>
>>> Like I said, that's exposition, not explanation. There is an important
>>> distinction between the two words. Simply providing information is not
>>> explanation. If it takes four hours for your audience to understand
>>> it, then you explained it in four hours no matter when you stopped
>>> talking.
>>
>> And if it takes six months? Would you seriously say it took you six
>> months to explain something because it took that long for your audience
>> to understand it?
>>
>> At some point you have to make the transition from person A explaining
>> and person(s) B understanding -- they don't necessarily happen
>> synchronously.
> 
> Then it's exposition and understanding, not explanation and understanding.
> 

Hmm.  Well, I can see your point -- after all, if are "explaining" but 
your audience is not understanding, are you really explaining?  Okay, 
looking in the dictionary...

ex?plain ?verb (used with object)
1. 	to make plain or clear; render understandable or intelligible: to 
explain an obscure point.
2. 	to make known in detail: to explain how to do something.

un?der?stand ?verb (used with object)
1. 	to perceive the meaning of; grasp the idea of; comprehend: to 
understand Spanish; I didn't understand your question.
2. 	to be thoroughly familiar with; apprehend clearly the character, 
nature, or subtleties of: to understand a trade.
3. 	to assign a meaning to; interpret: He understood her suggestion as a 
complaint.
4. 	to grasp the significance, implications, or importance of: He does 
not understand responsibility.

For me, at least, it boils down to this feeling that understanding is 
not a True/False item, but more of a scale (like all the the numbers 
between 0.0 and 1.0 [not including 1.0 of course -- this *is* Python! 
;)]).  As a personal example, decorators are not that difficult to grasp 
-- you take your function and wrap it in another function; but what you 
can do with them!  They are truly impressive once your understanding 
deepens.

And at the end of the day (or this thread, whichever comes first ;) 
Python is awesome, and that's what counts.

~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Feb  5 16:48:22 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:48:22 -0800
Subject: How to guard against bugs like this one?
In-Reply-To: <4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <hk82uv$8kn$1@reader1.panix.com>
	<4b6c78d2$0$1602$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B6C9226.2020606@stoneleaf.us>

John Nagle wrote:
> kj wrote:
> ...
>>
>> Through a *lot* of trial an error I finally discovered that the
>> root cause of the problem was the fact that, in the same directory
>> as buggy.py, there is *another* innocuous little script, totally
>> unrelated, whose name happens to be numbers.py. 
> 
>    The right answer to this is to make module search return an
> error if two modules satisfy the search criteria.  "First find"
> isn't a good solution.
> 
>                 John Nagle

Then what happens when you *want* to shadow a module?  As MRAB suggests, 
if you are really concerned about it use a script that checks for 
duplicate modules (not a bad idea for debugging), but don't start 
throwing errors... next thing you know we won't be able to shadow 
classes, functions, or built-ins!  !-)

~Ethan~


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Feb  5 16:49:33 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:49:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 3:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> > Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> > verbNoun?
>
> > For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> > but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> > should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>
> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
> [2]http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.

    def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
        """
        Get the Abbe Number V for the material
        where
        V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
        where the Index of Refractions are
        Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
        Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
        Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
        """

        Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
        Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
        Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)

        if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
            V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
        else:
            V = 1e6

        return V

    # end AbbeGet


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb  5 16:53:16 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:53:16 +0100
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hki40f$dmi$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Wanderer:
> On Feb 5, 3:26 pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
>>> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
>>> verbNoun?
>>> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
>>> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
>>> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
>> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>>
>> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
>> [2]http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --http://blog.rebertia.com
> 
> Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.
> 
>     def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
>         """
>         Get the Abbe Number V for the material
>         where
>         V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
>         where the Index of Refractions are
>         Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
>         Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
>         Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
>         """
> 
>         Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
>         Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
>         Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)
> 
>         if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
>             V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
>         else:
>             V = 1e6
> 
>         return V
> 
>     # end AbbeGet

Consider this piece of code:

    x = 2*sin( angle )

versus this:

    x = 2*get_sin( angle )

or this:

    x = 2*sin_get( angle )


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb  5 16:53:57 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:53:57 -0800
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002051353o5031b76el6f6f0fcd540bbf64@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 3:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
>> > Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
>> > verbNoun?
>>
>> > For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
>> > but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
>> > should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>>
>> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
>> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>>
>> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
>
> Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.
>
> ? ?def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
> ? ? ? ?"""
> ? ? ? ?Get the Abbe Number V for the material
> ? ? ? ?where
> ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> ? ? ? ?where the Index of Refractions are
> ? ? ? ?Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
> ? ? ? ?Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
> ? ? ? ?Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
> ? ? ? ?"""
>
> ? ? ? ?Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
> ? ? ? ?Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
> ? ? ? ?Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)
>
> ? ? ? ?if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> ? ? ? ?else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?V = 1e6
>
> ? ? ? ?return V

This isn't even really a method; you don't refer to "self" in the body
at all. Why isn't it just a function?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 16:56:29 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 13:56:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad> 
	<de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<l_%an.72$zN4.36@newsfe05.iad>
Message-ID: <65c717dd-826d-4e8e-8dd3-8a0a90df7b86@o26g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>


> GvR got it right when he discarded the superfluous semicolons from the ends
> of statements--and then he ADDS superfluous colons to the ends of control
> statements? It will probably be as much of a shock to you as it was to me
> when I learned after studying parsing that colons, semicolons, "then"'s and
> "do"'s, etc., ?are simply noise tokens that serve no purpose except to
> clutter up the source.

Some argue that the colon is a useful visual cue that aids in
readability and
that "explicit is better than implicit".  I think one can feel either
way about it.
For my part, I prefer to have colons at that point, because it serves
as a
mental primer that a certain type of block follows.  Semi-colons at
the end
of statements don't seem to provide any mental priming for me that
can't
better be served by a line break.

> As for enforced indentation, back in the late 60's when I was a programming
> newbie I remember thinking how cool it would be to just indent the
> statements controlled by for loops (we didn't have none of them fancy while
> loops in FORTRAN back then! :-) ) ?Not too long after that I saw the havoc
> that a buggy editor could wreak on nicely-formatted source. :-( Formatting
> held hostage to a significant, invisible whitespace char? An inevitable
> accident waiting to happen! Not good, Guido; not good at all.

First, why would you tolerate a buggy editor?

I've had my share of challenges in learning Python, but indentation
problems
would be about 403rd down on the list.  A simple indentation error is
shown in
my editor that immediately gets fixed.  No havoc at all.  And I also
know that
every piece of Python code I ever get from others *has* to be readable
(at
least in terms of the very visually helpful indented blocks).

Che



Che

>
> That'll do for starters. :-)



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:02:42 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:02:42 GMT
Subject: YAML (was: Python and Ruby)
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<7536f9c0-a36a-479d-ba95-9405b13793fd@e25g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.31.20.43.03.437000@nowhere.com>
	<981c8f1e-6c03-4869-96aa-f8ec10276ba6@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.02.02.19.19.140000@nowhere.com>
	<993f09ff-f09e-4c8e-b8fd-99e4180d3528@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<877hqusy22.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<1944d953-25ad-440b-9317-a7a4b4de6dac@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<pecora-5AF2BB.17545703022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<87eil1ddjp.fsf_-_@castleamber.com>
	<pecora-521A4F.09575904022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
	<00f4bb3a$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<pecora-49F401.09220305022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <037c81ba$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:22:03 -0500, Lou Pecora wrote:

[...]
>> > That's what I needed.  3 lines to write or read a inhomogeneous
>> > collection of variables.
>> 
>> Easy, but also quick and dirty -- good enough for small scripts, but
>> not really good enough for production applications.
[...]
> I understand where you are coming from: Production Code.  I was just
> making a point about Python and my code is only used by me.  I can edit
> the file for the simple I/O I do.  I am not recommending this way for
> everyone. Just an example.

We're in violent agreement then :)


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:19:11 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:19:11 GMT
Subject: which
References: <hkh9eo$a9j$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B6C2E1E.7000201@sequans.com>
	<hkhclm$lvr$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B6C3919.3050300@sequans.com>
	<mailman.1968.1265385115.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c8597$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:52:19 +0100, mk wrote:

> assert isinstance(cmd, basestring) or cmd is None, "cmd should be string
> or None"

Do not use assertions for input validation. That's not what they're for.

assert is compiled away when you run your code with the -O switch, which 
means that the test may never be made at all. You should limit assertions 
for testing "this can never happen" situations, verifying pre- and post-
conditions, checking the internal logic of your code, and similar.


See also:

http://nedbatchelder.com/text/assert.html


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:19:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:19:31 GMT
Subject: method to intercept string formatting % operations
References: <6ccc5e49-bf38-4aff-8f9b-e53917d11944@3g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1967.1265384950.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c85ab$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:49:00 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Anyway why would you want to use the tuple form ? it's beaten in every
> aspect by the dictionary form.

Except convenience, efficiency and readability.

"%s %s" % (1, 2)

versus

"%(a)s %(b)s" % {'a': 1, 'b': 2}


I'm all in favour of the second form when you need it. But you certainly 
don't need it all time.



-- 
Steven


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 17:19:36 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:19:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: reconstruct the source of a lambda from its func_code, func_name, etc
Message-ID: <03a5232b-fdcb-48f9-926e-bdd6e2e4b638@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Thy Pon:

Has anyone figured out how to reflect a passed function, such as a
lambda, all the way back to its source?

I am aware than func_code knows the file name and line number; I would
rather not use them to read the file because the lambda might not
start in the first column. I will go with this option until someone
suggests a better fix!

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 17:20:58 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:20:58 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>
>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>
>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>
>> After changing to
>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>
>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
> 
> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
> 
> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.



How can I completely disable IP6.

I went to my network device and disabled IPV6 under properties. The
XMRPC calls were stull slow.

bye


N


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:21:05 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:21:05 GMT
Subject: which
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c8609$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:21:05 +0100, mk wrote:

> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>      self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)
> else:
>      self.cmd = cmd
> 
> or
> 
> self.cmd = cmd
> if isinstance(cmd, str):
>      self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip)


Whichever one you like. The differences are insignificance, and 
essentially boil down to personal preference.



-- 
Steven


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Fri Feb  5 17:21:55 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2011.1265406841.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <36952f27-c825-4ab8-bd2e-7dff097075fd@d30g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 4:53?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 5, 3:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> >> > Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> >> > verbNoun?
>
> >> > For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> >> > but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> >> > should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> >> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
> >> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>
> >> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
>
> > Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.
>
> > ? ?def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
> > ? ? ? ?"""
> > ? ? ? ?Get the Abbe Number V for the material
> > ? ? ? ?where
> > ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> > ? ? ? ?where the Index of Refractions are
> > ? ? ? ?Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
> > ? ? ? ?Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
> > ? ? ? ?Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
> > ? ? ? ?"""
>
> > ? ? ? ?Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
> > ? ? ? ?Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
> > ? ? ? ?Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)
>
> > ? ? ? ?if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> > ? ? ? ?else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?V = 1e6
>
> > ? ? ? ?return V
>
> This isn't even really a method; you don't refer to "self" in the body
> at all. Why isn't it just a function?
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Okay, I guess it should be a function called abbe() instead of a
method called AbbeGet(). That should solve the problem of trying to
remember whether I called it GetAbbe or AbbeGet.

Thanks


From bartc at freeuk.com  Fri Feb  5 17:22:39 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:22:39 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org><m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>


"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>> two functions.
>>
>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>
> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.

So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false, 
underline=true) to be split into:

drawtext(s)
drawtextb(s)
drawtexti(s)
drawtextu(s)
drawtextbi(s)
drawtextbu(s)
drawtextiu(s)
drawtextbiu(s)

Which of course is going to be fun if the bold/italic/underline values are 
not constants; instead of writing:

drawtext(s,b,i,u)

you have to say:

if b==0 and i==0 and u==0:
    drawtext(s)
elif b==1 and i==0 and u==0:
    drawtextb(s)

and so on. With half-a-dozen or more booleans, this becomes completely 
impractical.

-- 
Bartc 



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:26:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:26:03 GMT
Subject: Python's Reference And Internal Model Of Computing Languages
References: <7ed330b7-8bc2-4eac-be92-615e8b865fd6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2sk9fllvm.fsf@dhcpw80ff9506.dynamic.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <037c8733$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:53:33 -0600, David Thole wrote:

> I read this....and am a tiny bit confused about the actual problem.
> 
> It's not exactly complex to realize that something like: a = b = array
> that a and b both point to the array.
> 
> Logically speaking, I'm not sure how one could assume that the same
> assignment would yield a and b point to the same duplicate array.

It's an easy mistake to make, if you don't understand Python's object 
model:


>>> a = b = 2
>>> a += 1
>>> a, b
(3, 2)
>>> a = b = [2]
>>> a[0] += 1
>>> a, b
([3], [3])

For the non-Python coders reading, the difference is that ints are 
immutable, and hence a += 1 assigns a to a new int, leaving b untouched, 
but lists are mutable, hence a[0] += 1 mutates the list which both a and 
b refer to. This is a Good Thing, but it is one of the things which give 
newcomers some trouble.


-- 
Steven


From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 17:26:48 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 23:26:48 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi JM,

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>>  
>>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>>>
>>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>>>
>>>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After changing to
>>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>>>
>>>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>>>>
>
> Or you can simply use an explicit external address. Most of the time
> xmlRPC server/clients are used between distant machines.
> If your are using localhost for test purpose, then binding your server
> on its external IP instead of the local one could solve your problem
> (wihtout removing the IPV6 stack).
> 
> import socket
> 
> # server
> server = SimpleXMLRPCServer((socket.gethostname(), 5000),
> logRequests=False, allow_none=True)
> 
> 
> # client
> xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://%s.yourdomain.com:%s" %
> (socket.gethostname(), 5000))


Well This was exactly my question.
for virtual web servers I cannot just use the IP-address.
some XMLRPC servers do need the histname within the HTTP-POST request.

if I just replaced the hostname with the IP addres, then certain servers
would not be accessable.

I had to use the IP-address for connecteing, but to pass the hostname in
the HTTP-POST request.

I wondered how to convince puthon's SimpleXMLRPCServer (or any other
standard python xmlrpc server), such, that I can obtain above mentioned
goal.


bye

N


> PS : just wondering if using the port 80 is legal

If nothing else on the host runs on port 80 the answer is yes.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:31:32 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:31:32 GMT
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <037c887c$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:53:08 -0800, Wanderer wrote:

> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
> 
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal, 

+0.5 for getVoltage

+1 get_voltage

-1 for voltageGet or voltage_get


> but
> voltageGet is more like voltage.Get.

According to PEP 8, the style guide for the standard library, method 
names should use lowercase initial letter, so you should have 
voltage.get. Following PEP 8 isn't compulsory, but it is recommended 
unless you want a bunch of busy-body coders telling you you need to 
follow PEP 8 :)


> I seem to mix them and I should
> probably pick one way and stick with it.

Yes.




-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Feb  5 17:41:22 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:41:22 +0000
Subject: Repost: Read a running process output
References: <429b842a-6161-4610-9c4e-eb84dcebf844@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.05.22.41.21.875000@nowhere.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:57:17 -0800, Ashok Prabhu wrote:

> I very badly need this to work. I have been googling out for a week
> with no significant solution. I open a process p1 which does keeps
> running for 4+ hours. It gives some output in stdout now and then. I
> open this process with subprocess.Popen and redirect the stdout to
> PIPE. However when I read the output with readline it blocks waiting
> forever. I need to read from p1.stdout till what it has in the PIPE.
> Can someone help me out with the exact code change that can accomplish
> the task.
> 
> from subprocess import *
> 
> p1=Popen('/usr/sunvts/bin/64/vtsk -d',stdout=PIPE,shell=True)
> 
> while 1:
>     line=p1.stdout.readline()
>     print line

The answer is essentially the same one I gave in response to your post
entitled "read a process output with subprocess.Popen" yesterday.

You need to persuade the command to line-buffer its output rather than
block-buffering it. If the command insists on block-buffering, you're out
of luck; there's no way that Python can force it to do otherwise.

You might be able to persuade the command to use line-buffering by using a
pty rather than a pipe for its stdout, although that depends upon
os.openpty() being available on your platform (the documentation only says
"Availability: some flavors of Unix").



From g.statkute at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 17:42:23 2010
From: g.statkute at gmail.com (gintare statkute)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 00:42:23 +0200
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
Message-ID: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>

Does anybody know if it possible to execute sqlite3 dot commands in python?

dovanotas:/pages/links# python
Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan  4 2009, 17:40:26)
[GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sqlite3
>>> sqlite3  .help
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'help'
>>>

the same with other commands:
.databases
.tables
http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite.html

regards,
gintare


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 17:45:38 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:45:38 -0600
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org><m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <hki72g$jdd$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-05 16:22 PM, bartc wrote:
>
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>>> two functions.
>>>
>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>>
>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>
> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
> underline=true) to be split into:
>
> drawtext(s)
> drawtextb(s)
> drawtexti(s)
> drawtextu(s)
> drawtextbi(s)
> drawtextbu(s)
> drawtextiu(s)
> drawtextbiu(s)
>
> Which of course is going to be fun if the bold/italic/underline values
> are not constants; instead of writing:
>
> drawtext(s,b,i,u)
>
> you have to say:
>
> if b==0 and i==0 and u==0:
> drawtext(s)
> elif b==1 and i==0 and u==0:
> drawtextb(s)
>
> and so on. With half-a-dozen or more booleans, this becomes completely
> impractical.

Then you refactor to

   drawtext(s, font)

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:45:51 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:45:51 GMT
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c8bd7$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:26:38 -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com>
> wrote:
>> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
>> verbNoun?
>>
>> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
>> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
>> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
> 
> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.


But sometimes you still need methods or functions of the form verb_noun. 
For instance, if getting or setting the voltage is an expensive 
operation, you don't want to fool the user into thinking it is a cheap 
attribute access. Or get_voltage might be a stand-alone function rather 
than a method. Or the getter might allow additional arguments. 

The admonition to avoid getters and setters isn't meant to prohibit *any* 
method which has a get/set in the name (whether implicit or explicit). 
It's meant as an antidote to the Java idiom of making *every* attribute 
private and accessing them via getters/setters, even when all they do is 
merely get/set the contents of the attribute.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:48:37 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:48:37 GMT
Subject: reconstruct the source of a lambda from its func_code,
	func_name, etc
References: <03a5232b-fdcb-48f9-926e-bdd6e2e4b638@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <037c8c7d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:19:36 -0800, Phlip wrote:

> Thy Pon:
> 
> Has anyone figured out how to reflect a passed function, such as a
> lambda, all the way back to its source?

Use the dis module to disassemble the byte code to human readable form, 
then write some sort of decompiler to translate it back to Python.

The second half is the difficult part... 

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 17:52:24 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 22:52:24 GMT
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100, mk wrote:

> Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/
choose_python.pdf
>> 
>> 
> Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored.
> Oh well..

With an attitude like that, you're damn lucky if you don't get kill-
filed. It was SIX MINUTES since you posted your question about timers, 
what did you expect?

Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might never 
get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after six DAYS 
might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but after six 
minutes?

Advice on public forums is free, but it doesn't come with an guaranteed 
response time. If you want a Service Level Agreement, you will need to 
pay somebody for it.



-- 
Steven


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 17:54:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:54:52 -0500
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6CA1BC.3060401@holdenweb.com>

News123 wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
> 
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>>
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>>
>>> After changing to
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
>> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
>>
>> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
>> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
>> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.
> 
> 
> 
> How can I completely disable IP6.
> 
> I went to my network device and disabled IPV6 under properties. The
> XMRPC calls were stull slow.
> 
There's not a lot of point taking actions like disabling IPv6 until you
actually know what the cause of the problem is (though I suppose a few
likely-sounding actions are worth taking if they don't require much
effort). Sounds to me like you need to get WireShark or some similar
protocol analyzer on the network and determine what traffic is passing
across the network.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 17:54:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:54:52 -0500
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c99ca$0$5907$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6CA1BC.3060401@holdenweb.com>

News123 wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
> 
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:34:20 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>> I wrote a small xmlrpc client on Windows 7 with python 2.6
>>>
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 1 rpc call per second
>>>
>>> After changing to
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server('http://127.0.0.1:80')
>>>
>>> I was able to perform about 10 to 16 rpc calls per second.
>> Not necesarily. There is another difference: 127.0.0.1 is an IPv4
>> address, localhost maps to both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (::1)
>>
>> I vaguely remember a problem with that - IPv6 is tried first, doesn't
>> work, only then IPv4, and that slows down the whole process.
>> Try disabling completely the IPv6 stack, if you don't need it.
> 
> 
> 
> How can I completely disable IP6.
> 
> I went to my network device and disabled IPV6 under properties. The
> XMRPC calls were stull slow.
> 
There's not a lot of point taking actions like disabling IPv6 until you
actually know what the cause of the problem is (though I suppose a few
likely-sounding actions are worth taking if they don't require much
effort). Sounds to me like you need to get WireShark or some similar
protocol analyzer on the network and determine what traffic is passing
across the network.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 18:01:46 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 23:01:46 GMT
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
	<de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<l_%an.72$zN4.36@newsfe05.iad>
Message-ID: <037c8f92$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:22:25 -0600, Bruce C. Baker wrote:

> GvR got it right when he discarded the superfluous semicolons from the
> ends of statements--and then he ADDS superfluous colons to the ends of
> control statements? 

They're not superfluous, they have a real, practical use.


> It will probably be as much of a shock to you as it
> was to me when I learned after studying parsing that colons, semicolons,
> "then"'s and "do"'s, etc.,  are simply noise tokens that serve no
> purpose except to clutter up the source.

Incorrect, they do have a use. Hint: source code isn't just read by 
parsers.



> As for enforced indentation, back in the late 60's when I was a
> programming newbie I remember thinking how cool it would be to just
> indent the statements controlled by for loops (we didn't have none of
> them fancy while loops in FORTRAN back then! :-) )  Not too long after
> that I saw the havoc that a buggy editor could wreak on nicely-formatted
> source. :-( 

As opposed to how resistant source code is to buggy editors that make 
other changes to source code.

If your editor flips the order of characters, or turns the digit "4" into 
"7", or deletes braces, or inserts "#" characters at the start of lines, 
you would dump the editor in a second. But if the editor inserts or 
removes whitespace, we're supposed to continue using the editor and 
change the language?


> Formatting held hostage to a significant, invisible
> whitespace char? 

It's not invisible. You can see it by noticing the space between the left 
margin and the start of non-whitespace text. Can you see the difference 
between these?

hello world

    hello world

Of course you can, unless your News reader or mail client is buggy. If it 
is deleting whitespace at the start of lines, how can you trust it not to 
delete anything else?

Trailing spaces and tabs, on the other hand, *are* invisible. But they're 
also insignificant, and so don't matter.

(Except for one little tiny corner case, which I shall leave as an 
exercise for the advanced reader.)



-- 
Steven


From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 18:03:51 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:03:51 +0100
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
Message-ID: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,



I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.

What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with CTRL-C

The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under Windows)

If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
function.

Is there any trick, which I overlook?

thanks in advance for ideas and bye


N


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb  5 18:08:08 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Feb 2010 15:08:08 -0800
Subject: SQLite3: preventing new file creation
References: <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hki8co$qmi$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0 at k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Gnarlodious  <gnarlodious at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Every time I say something like:
>
>connection=sqlite3.connect(file)
>
>sqlite creates a new database file. Can this behavior be suppressed
>through SQLite? Or am I forced to check for the file existing first?

Check first
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 18:11:04 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:11:04 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org><m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <hki8im$okh$1@ger.gmane.org>

bartc wrote:
> 
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>>> two functions.
>>>
>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>>
>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
> 
> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
> underline=true) to be split into:
> 
> drawtext(s)
> drawtextb(s)
> drawtexti(s)
> drawtextu(s)
> drawtextbi(s)
> drawtextbu(s)
> drawtextiu(s)
> drawtextbiu(s)
> 
The case I was discussing was where the function was required to
implement significantly different logic flow for the two different
values of the Boolean.

> Which of course is going to be fun if the bold/italic/underline values
> are not constants; instead of writing:
> 
> drawtext(s,b,i,u)
> 
> you have to say:
> 
> if b==0 and i==0 and u==0:
>    drawtext(s)
> elif b==1 and i==0 and u==0:
>    drawtextb(s)
> 
> and so on. With half-a-dozen or more booleans, this becomes completely
> impractical.
> 
It's completely impractical the way you've written it anyway, since the
drawtext function shouldn't be required to know whether it's printing
bold, italic, etc. - those properties should be attributes of the font.

regards
 Steve


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb  5 18:19:09 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:19:09 -0500
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
In-Reply-To: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hki91r$pua$1@ger.gmane.org>

gintare statkute wrote:
> Does anybody know if it possible to execute sqlite3 dot commands in python?
> 
> dovanotas:/pages/links# python
> Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan  4 2009, 17:40:26)
> [GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sqlite3
>>>> sqlite3  .help
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'help'
> 
> the same with other commands:
> .databases
> .tables
> http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite.html
> 
No. That's not how you pass commands to sqlite3 - you connect to a
database, create a cursor on the connection, and then execute SQL
statements (not sqlite commands) on the cursor. Like this:

>>> import sqlite3
>>> c = sqlite3.connect("deleteme")
>>> cu = c.cursor()
>>> cu.execute(".help")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
sqlite3.OperationalError: near ".": syntax error
>>> cu.execute("""\
... CREATE TABLE test(
...   a int primary key,
...   b varchar)""")
<sqlite3.Cursor object at 0x01FD4740>
>>>

As you can see, the cursor's execute() method expects SQL statements.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb  5 18:29:10 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Feb 2010 23:29:10 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <037c95fe$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:22:39 +0000, bartc wrote:

> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>>> two functions.
>>>
>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight
>>> functions?
>>>
>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
> 
> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
> underline=true) to be split into:
> 
> drawtext(s)
> drawtextb(s)
> drawtexti(s)
> drawtextu(s)
> drawtextbi(s)
> drawtextbu(s)
> drawtextiu(s)
> drawtextbiu(s)


No, of course not. But one might prefer a function with an alternate API, 
such as:

style = TextStyle(bold=True, underline=True, size=12, font='helvetica')
drawtext(s, style)
style.italic = True
drawtext(s, style)

Other alternatives might be to pass the style information as a string 
"BU" (bold underline) or a numeric flag (BOLD & UNDERLINE).

In general, if your implementation looks like this:


def function(args, flag):
    if flag:
        do_this()
    else:
        do_that()


then this is a good candidate for splitting into multiple functions.

Likewise:

def function(args, flag):
    result = do_this()
    if flag:
        result = modify(result)
    return result

or similar.

The point is that such a function uses the flag to select between two 
different semantics. From a API perspective, it is generally better to 
make each behaviour an independent function (perhaps calling a third, 
private, function implementing any common behaviour). For example, 
instead of:

def extreme(sequence, biggest=True):
    """Return the extreme value from sequence.

    If biggest is a true value, return the maximum value, otherwise
    return the smallest.
    """
    pass  # implementation left as an exercise


have two functions, max and min.



-- 
Steven


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb  5 18:36:19 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:36:19 -0800
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <037c8bd7$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8bd7$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002051536u4f29be9laac873fcd212a7b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:26:38 -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wanderer at dialup4less.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
>>> verbNoun?
>>>
>>> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
>>> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
>>> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>>
>> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
>> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>
> But sometimes you still need methods or functions of the form verb_noun.

True, but when the verb is "get" and you're using Python, your design
probably merits another going-over. If the OP hadn't used "get" as
their example, I would have answered significantly differently.

> For instance, if getting or setting the voltage is an expensive
> operation, you don't want to fool the user into thinking it is a cheap
> attribute access.

I strongly disagree with this rationale as it violates the Uniform
Access Principle
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_access_principle). Though I
concede Python's builtins don't adhere to the UAP.

> Or get_voltage might be a stand-alone function rather
> than a method.

The OP originally said quite explicitly it was a method in their
original post. (Though they since wisely changed their code structure
so it's not.)

> Or the getter might allow additional arguments.

True; but before the OP posted the actual function body, there was no
way to know whether it did. Lacking such info, I assumed the simplest
and most frequent case, namely that it didn't take any args.

> The admonition to avoid getters and setters isn't meant to prohibit *any*
> method which has a get/set in the name (whether implicit or explicit).
> It's meant as an antidote to the Java idiom of making *every* attribute
> private and accessing them via getters/setters, even when all they do is
> merely get/set the contents of the attribute.

True. Again, before the OP posted the method body, there was no way to
know it wasn't a trivial Java-esque getter.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From jackdied at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 18:43:13 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:43:13 -0500
Subject: list.extend([]) Question
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002050831r6233b751mcbc5f55fb9a2c1b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <088e7a24-b0d0-4d43-bee7-193e5eaefe57@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<hkhf15$13r$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5d1a32001002050831r6233b751mcbc5f55fb9a2c1b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8e622741002051543o3f34a967qc8f2fb5139ea41d1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Gerald Britton
<gerald.britton at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's because when you do ['a'].extend([]) or whatever, the
> result is whatever the method "extend" returns. ?But "extend" has no
> return value, hence you will see None if you do this interactively.
>

That sums it up.  In Python the convention is to raise an exception on
error, return a new value in the case where a new value is created,
and - as in this case - to return None for modification of an existing
value.  Returning "None" is vexing if you are used to another language
that has a different convention but is expected for well behaved
python libraries.

So yeah, Python does it that way because the intent is to loudly and
regularly announce that something was modified or to loudly and
regularly announce that something new was /not/ created.  It's a
boring story with no whiz-bang feature behind it, but I like that the
language behaves that way for exactly that reason.

-Jack


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb  5 19:00:44 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:00:44 -0600
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <037c8f92$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>	<de06116c-e77c-47c4-982d-62b48bca5064@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<l_%an.72$zN4.36@newsfe05.iad>
	<037c8f92$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6CB12C.4020705@tim.thechases.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Trailing spaces and tabs, on the other hand, *are* invisible. But they're 
> also insignificant, and so don't matter.
> 
> (Except for one little tiny corner case, which I shall leave as an 
> exercise for the advanced reader.)

Drat, now I'm gonna be up at odd hours tonight dredging my brain 
for such corner cases.  My catalog so far:

- triple-quoted multi-line strings

- "\" line-continuations don't work with trailing whitespace 
(though Vim's syntax highlighting flags them, changing their 
color if there's whitespace afterwards)

- files that read themselves (or perhaps depend on 
introspection/debugging modules to read themselves)

Any others that I missed?

-tkc






From mentifex at myuw.net  Fri Feb  5 19:02:53 2010
From: mentifex at myuw.net (Forthminder)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:02:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
Message-ID: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Contest runs from 4 February to 26 February 2010.

You may choose a programming language, such as
Java, C++, Python, Ruby or Haskell.

See details at

http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/problem_description.php

Bonne Chance!

Mentifex
--
http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt


From wgaggioli at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:08:06 2010
From: wgaggioli at gmail.com (William Gaggioli)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:08:06 -0500
Subject: Calendar GUI
Message-ID: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is there some open-source
calendar program you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
that something simple and clean is ideal.

Thanks,
Will
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From gabriel at opensuse.org  Fri Feb  5 19:14:33 2010
From: gabriel at opensuse.org (Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:14:33 -0300
Subject: Calendar GUI
In-Reply-To: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggioli at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
> them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
> is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
> staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
> action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is there some open-source
> calendar program you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
> be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
> that something simple and clean is ideal.
>

I wrote a gtk gui for google calendar.

Maybe you can adapt it to your needs.

http://code.google.com/p/googlecalendar-gtk/

-- 
Kind Regards


From imuaplease at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:24:56 2010
From: imuaplease at gmail.com (**Group User**)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 16:24:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1eed1fcc-f1d1-4f71-bc05-68dddb3f17b4@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 7:02?am, Forthminder <menti... at myuw.net> wrote:
> Contest runs from 4 February to 26 February 2010.
>
> You may choose a programming language, such as
> Java, C++, Python, Ruby or Haskell.
>
> See details at
>
> http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/problem_description.php
>
> Bonne Chance!
>
> Mentifex
> --http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mindforth.txt

I find out that
I was a donkie
I was hooked up
Torn
Screwed up
And Haskel was there at that time
He got anrgy, pity
For my stupidity
All for best
Simulation for good alone



KKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNIIEEEE


From charles at declaresub.com  Fri Feb  5 19:27:55 2010
From: charles at declaresub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:27:55 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
	<5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29236418-FA36-49FB-A45B-AA414A21AE79@declaresub.com>


On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Gerald Britton wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Charles Yeomans <charles at declaresub.com 
> > wrote:
>> I am so far unable to find the information I want about the  
>> Exception class.
>>  Information like the signature of __init__ seems to be  
>> unavailable.  Any
>> suggestions where I might find such information?
>>
>
> Though not documented, some silly tests indicate that it will accept
> pretty much anything:
>
>>>> Exception(1,2,4,54)
> Exception(1, 2, 4, 54)
>>>> Exception(*range(10))
> Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
>>>> Exception(*range(50))
> Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
> 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33,
> 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49)
>>>> Exception('a','b','c','d','e')
> Exception('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e')
>>>> Exception(Exception(1))
> Exception(Exception(1,),)

I had also tried such tests.  If you pass a single argument msg, it is  
assigned to the message property, and the args property is set to  
(msg,). If you pass more than one argument, the tuple of arguments is  
assigned to the args property, and nothing is assigned to the message  
property.  I was hoping to at least find source code that provides a  
definitive answer.


Charles Yeomans




From news123 at free.fr  Fri Feb  5 19:31:16 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:31:16 +0100
Subject: can pydoc display doc for local funcs? or other doc tools for own code
Message-ID: <4b6cb854$0$28668$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

often I start "pydoc -g" in a projects working directory in order to
view the docstrings of my own project and in order to get a quick
overview of the code structure


In some cases I would like to see also to see private methods
(especially when trying to understand the internals of a collegues code
or even to browse throught the internals of my own code)


Therefore I wonder whether pydoc could be configured such, that it would
also display private methods (the ones with leading underscores)


If not:

What tools / methodologies would you recommend to quickly browse own /
collegues source code.

In many cases the function prototypes and the doc strings of public and
private methods would be sufficient for me.


thanks for any ideas



N




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb  5 19:56:21 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:56:21 -0300
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <op.u7okv7e3x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:

> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>
> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with  
> CTRL-C
>
> The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under  
> Windows)
>
> If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
> It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
> function.

Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
On previous versions you may use this:

class MyXMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer):

     ... your methods ...

     if not hasattr(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, 'shutdown'):

         # pre 2.6
         quit = False

         def serve_forever(self):
             while not self.quit:
                 self.handle_request()

         def shutdown(self):
             self.quit = True

         def server_bind(self):
             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb  5 21:49:08 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:49:08 -0800
Subject: Drawing a zig-zag Trail in Python?
In-Reply-To: <hkhkk6$8iq$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkhe48$2hd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkhkk6$8iq$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkilb7$7hg$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/5/2010 9:30 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-02-05, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>
>> I'd like to draw something like an animal track. Between each
>> point is a line. Perhaps the line would have an arrow showing
>> the direction of motion. There should be x-y coordinates
>> axises. PIL? MatPlotLib, ??
>
> I'd probably use gnuplot-py, but I'm probably biased since I've
> been using gnuplot since way before I learned Python.
>
It appears this is easier than I thought. MLB's plot will do it. I can 
put arrows at the end of a line, and even use sleep to watch the path 
slowly evolving.


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 22:17:17 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:17:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<1eed1fcc-f1d1-4f71-bc05-68dddb3f17b4@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <814cf6b9-546c-4e1c-a02b-80d84a757da5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Sweet, something to keep my brain busy for the next couple of weeks.


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Feb  5 22:38:15 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:38:15 -0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
In-Reply-To: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6ce04c$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Forthminder wrote:
...

Ignore.  Well-known nut. See "http://www.nothingisreal.com/mentifex_faq.html"

				John Nagle


From fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 22:54:48 2010
From: fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com (Jordan Uchima)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:54:48 -0600
Subject: "Nim" game being created, no GUI used... Need tips...
Message-ID: <1b07ab151002051954hf3c946bqf4f306184228da40@mail.gmail.com>

I am creating a game called Nim, but cannot get a loop going no matter what
I do. What i am trying to do is get it to only accept input from 1 to 4,
and  keep asking for input from the same player if he/she enters in an
invalid number. I also want it to stop when there is 1 or no piece(s) left,
and declare the player who DID NOT take the last piece the winner. Also, how
do I word the coding so that way it will make the players take turns? there
are 2 players. there are 13 pieces to start with. i am using python 2.6.4 .
here is my code:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

# taking pieces away

player1Choice = raw_input("Well, " + namePlayer1 + " how many"\
                           " pieces would you like to take?\n" + range(1,
4))
player2Choice = raw_input("Well, " + namePlayer2 + " how many"\
                           " pieces would you like to take?\n" + range(1,
4))

# setting a variable for the number of pieces

x = 13 - int(player1Choice or player2Choice) and not < 0

# to alternate turns

turn  = \
while player1Choice is False:
    print player1Choice and "There is ", x, " pieces remaining."
while player1Choice is True:
    print player2Choice and "There is ", x, " pieces remaining."
while player2Choice is False:
    print player2Choice and "There is ", x, " pieces remaining."
while player1Choice and player2Choice is True:
    print player1Choice and "There is ", x, " pieces remaining."
while x != range(0, 1):
    continue turn


# to determine winner/loser

loss = while x = range(0, 4) is True:
    print loser " loses!" + loser = \
      if player1Choice = loss:
    print namePlayer1 + loss
elif player2Choice = loss:
    print namePlayer2 + loss
else player1Choice and player2Choice = loss:
    print "It's a draw!"
elif player1Choice != loss:
    print ""
elif player2Choice != loss:
    print ""
else player1Choice and player2Choice != loss:
    print "Keep going! Only ", x, " pieces left!"

winner = \
       if player1Choice != loss:
    print namePlayer1 " wins!"
elif player2Choice != loss:
    print namePlayer2 " wins!"
elif player1Choice and player2Choice != loss:
    print "Keep going! Only ", x, " pieces left!"
elif player1Choice = loss:
    print namePlayer1 + loss
elif player2Choice = loss:
    print namePlayer2 + loss
else player1Choice and player2Choice = loss:
    print "It's a draw!"

# getting player's names

namePlayer1 = raw_input("Hello Player 1, what is your name?\n")
namePlayer2 = raw_input("Hello Player 2, what is your name?\n")

# greeting players

print "Hello", namePlayer1, "and", namePlayer2, "!"

# instructions

print "Welcome to the game of Nim, where you actually have to think!\n\n"\
      "The instructions are simple: you can take 1 to 4 pieces at a time,"\
      " but, if you take the last piece, YOU LOSE!\n\n"\
      "To take pieces, simply type in the number of pieces you want"\
      " to take, and press the ENTER (or in some cases, RETURN) key.\n\n"\
      "However, you can NOT take 0 pieces, or more than 4 pieces!\n\n"\
      "Well then, let's get started! :-)"

# starting the game

print turn

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All help and insertions would be appreciated. You can reach me at
fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com   .

Thanks!
-------------- next part --------------
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From toylet.toylet at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 23:18:40 2010
From: toylet.toylet at gmail.com (Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps))
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:18:40 +0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
In-Reply-To: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 06-Feb-10 08:02, Forthminder wrote:
> Contest runs from 4 February to 26 February 2010.
> http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/problem_description.php
> Bonne Chance!

It's definitely *not* exactly a programming challenge, but algorithm 
challenge.

A programming (only) challenge should only require the players to write 
codes to implement an algorithm.

This one requires both algorithm design & programming.

-- 
   @~@   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
  / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10)  Linux 2.6.32.7
   ^ ^   12:16:01 up 6 days 20:22 2 users load average: 0.45 0.26 0.09
???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Feb  5 23:55:54 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:55:54 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6CF65A.6030703@islandtraining.com>

Craig Berry wrote:
> Is there any way to get mouse wheel events from glut in PyOpenGL?
>
>   

Use Linux.  (On Linux, Glut returns mouse wheel events as buttons 4 and 
5), or use FreeGlut.  On both Windows and Linux freeglut returns mouse 
wheel events as buttons 4 and 5.

Gary Herron



From darnzen at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 00:05:53 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:05:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WCK and PIL
Message-ID: <1fbe5e4b-2179-410b-9f76-9d65a7a08dce@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

I've written an app using the wck library (widget construction kit,
see http://www.effbot.org), in addition to the wckGraph module. What
I'd like to do, is take the output of one of my windows (happens to be
a graph), and save it as a *.png or *.gif. I was planning on using the
PIL for this. I'd like to use the code I have as is, without re-
writing all the graphic calls to use PIL methods.

WCK uses its own "pixmap" class for storing images in memory. I can't
find any documentation or class reference for pixmap and what I find
in the source is confusing.

Does anyone have any direct experience with these libraries that can
tell me that there's some super easy thing I'm missing? I'd love it if
the wck pixmap is compatible with PIL. I don't have the time to mess
with it unless I know its going to work.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:10:08 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:10:08 -0300
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1265336437.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0ec3e55a-90b6-4d49-89b5-6a5721d366b5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7owm6sax6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:39:07 -0300, jonny lowe
<jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com> escribi?:
> On Feb 4, 8:20 pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>> On 01:56 am, jonny.lowe.12... at gmail.com wrote:

>> >What I want is to have an easy way to merge input.txt and thestdout
>> >so that output.txt look like:
>>
>> >Enter a number: 42
>> >You entered 42.
>>
>> >Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.
>>
>> It sounds like you might be looking forscript(1)?
>
> $ script -c "./y < input.txt" output.txt
> Script started, file is output.txt
> gimme x:you entered hello
> Script done, file is output.txt

Try moving the redirection out of the command:

$ script -c ./y output.txt < input.txt

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:19:22 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:19:22 -0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7ow2klzx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message  
> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>> two functions.
>>>
>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>>
>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>
> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,  
> underline=true) to be split into:
>
> drawtext(s)
> drawtextb(s)
> drawtexti(s)
> drawtextu(s)
> drawtextbi(s)
> drawtextbu(s)
> drawtextiu(s)
> drawtextbiu(s)

Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
separate functions.
By example, foo.get_path(absolute=True) should be written as
foo.get_absolute_path() and foo.get_relative_path()
It gets worse when one parameter alters the type of the returned value, or
even the number of returned values. This is an actual example:

def build_image(self, zone=-1, return_sizes=False):
     ...
     if return_size:
       return img, sizes
     else:
       return img

image = foo.build_image(3)
but:
image, sizes = foo.build_image(3, True)

It should be split onto two separate functions; in this particular case,
computing 'sizes' required actually drawing the image, so the solution was
to make those 'sizes' attributes of the returned image.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:19:54 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:19:54 -0300
Subject: Import question
References: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:21:47 -0300, Andrew Degtiariov
<andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com> escribi?:

> Code of our project has split into several packages and we deploy the
> project using buildout.
> All worked fine until I need to dynamically inspect python modules.

Entirely by luck, I'd say :)

> ????project.api.config
> ?   ????project
> ?   ?   ????api
> ?   ?       ????config
> ?   ?           ????settings
> ?   ????project.api.config.egg-info
> ????project.api.contacts
> ?   ????project
> ?   ?   ????api
> ?   ?       ????contacts
> ?   ?           ????importer
> ?   ?           ????views
> ?   ????project.api.contacts.egg-info

> Regular code like "import project.api.config" worked fine, but now I'm  
> tryed
> __import__('project.api.config'):
>
> $ bin/python
>
>>>> import project.api.config
>>>> __import__('project.api.config')
> <module 'project from
> 'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>

You can't use dots neither in module names nor package names as they're
identifiers [1]. It's like trying to use an attribute named 'foo.bar': you
can handle it with getattr/setattr, but normal attribute access won't work:

py> x.foo.bar = 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: X instance has no attribute 'foo'
py> setattr(x, 'foo.bar', 1)
py> x.foo.bar
Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: X instance has no attribute 'foo'
py> getattr(x, 'foo.bar')
1

[1] http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#the-import-statement

> What's wrong? We really need to split the code for several eggs and want
> that all of our package's names starts from 'project.api'

The only sane solution is to avoid using dots in package names. Sorry, but
having project.api.config, project.api.contacts as directory names is
simply crazy.
Looks like you actually wanted to use this layout:

project/
     api/
       config/
         ...
       contacts/
         ...
       core/
         ...

but made a wrong turn in the road...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:20:13 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:20:13 -0300
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> <4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:23:57 -0300, Anthra Norell
<anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> escribi?:

>>>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>>>    window. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
>>> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
>>> tips?

I'd suggest a couple more tests.
Open the Python interpreter and execute:

py> from idlelib import idle

This *should* launch IDLE, or raise an error... If nothing happens, exit
the process and open another one, and execute:

py> import Tkinter
py> root = Tkinter.Tk()
py> root.mainloop()

An empty window should appear. If not, I'd say something is wrong with the
Tcl/Tk libraries.

> For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 2.5, though, because  
> it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 cannot even use it.

PIL has an impressive compatibility record - it works with *any* Python
version from 1.5.2 up. You should be able to use PIL with 2.4 without
problems.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Feb  6 00:59:35 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:59:35 -0300
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
References: <hkh3tn$lbc$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7oyxlhbx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:45:30 -0300, Frank Millman <frank at chagford.com>  
escribi?:

> Assume you have a server process running, a pool of worker threads to  
> perform tasks, and a Queue.Queue() to pass the tasks to the workers.
>
> In order to shut down the server cleanly, you want to ensure that the  
> workers have all finished their tasks. I like the technique of putting a  
> None onto the queue, and have each worker check for None, put None back  
> onto the queue, and terminate itself.
>
> The main program would look something like this -
>
>     q.put(None)
>     for worker in worker_threads:
>         worker.join()
>
> At this point you can be sure that each thread has completed its tasks  
> and terminated itself.
>
> However, the queue is not empty - it still has the final None in it.

Yes - but who cares? :)

> Is it advisable to finalise the cleanup like this? -
>
>     while not q.empty():
>         q.get()
>         q.task_done()
>     q.join()
>
> Or is this completely redundant?

I don't see what you gain by doing that.

On the other hand, you might check whether the queue contains exactly one  
item and it is None, just to be sure that all queued work has been done.

(BTW, I'd use a different sentinel instead of None; perhaps this could not  
happen in your current code, but it's easy to inadvertedly put a None in  
the queue, stopping all workers prematurely.)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From torriem at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 00:59:54 2010
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:59:54 -0700
Subject: Calendar GUI
In-Reply-To: <1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>
	<1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>

Gabriel wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggioli at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
>> them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
>> is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
>> staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
>> action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is there some open-source
>> calendar program you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
>> be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
>> that something simple and clean is ideal.
> 
> I wrote a gtk gui for google calendar.
> 
> Maybe you can adapt it to your needs.
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/googlecalendar-gtk/

Would this work without an internet connection?  The original poster
stated that internet isn't so reliable, hence the need for a local solution.



From frank at chagford.com  Sat Feb  6 01:30:55 2010
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 08:30:55 +0200
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
References: <hkh3tn$lbc$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<op.u7oyxlhbx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <hkj2be$lsm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Feb 6, 7:59 am, "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-... at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 09:45:30 -0300, Frank Millman <fr... at chagford.com> 
> escribi?:
>
[...]
> > However, the queue is not empty - it still has the final None in it.
>
> Yes - but who cares? :)
>

That was my point. I didn't think I needed to care, but I wanted to be sure 
I was not missing something.

I will just discard all the final cleanup code.

>
> (BTW, I'd use a different sentinel instead of None; perhaps this could not 
> happen in your current code, but it's easy to inadvertedly put a None in 
> the queue, stopping all workers prematurely.)
>

Good advice.

Thanks, Gabriel

Frank




From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Feb  6 03:08:09 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:08:09 +1300
Subject: ANN: PyGUI 2.2
Message-ID: <mailman.2041.1265465745.28905.python-announce-list@python.org>

PyGUI 2.2 is available:

   http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/

Highlights of this version:

   - TextEditor component with tabs, scrolling and word wrap
	
   - Classes for laying out components in rows, colums and grids
	
   - Printing support


What is PyGUI?
--------------

PyGUI is a cross-platform GUI toolkit designed to be lightweight
and have a highly Pythonic API.

-- 
Gregory Ewing
greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:29:10 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:29:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
References: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2017.1265411978.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c9d0555e-33cb-4b6f-92d6-88e8468f07a3@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 3:19?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> gintare statkute wrote:
> > Does anybody know if it possible to execute sqlite3 dot commands in python?
>
> > dovanotas:/pages/links# python
> > Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jan ?4 2009, 17:40:26)
> > [GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> import sqlite3
> >>>> sqlite3 ?.help
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> > AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'help'
>
> > the same with other commands:
> > .databases
> > .tables
> >http://www.sqlite.org/sqlite.html
>
> No.


Well actually you can, sort of.  For instance:

os.system('sqlite3 :memory: .help')


Carl Banks


From andrewt.herd at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:32:58 2010
From: andrewt.herd at gmail.com (Andrew)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:32:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyQt4 designer custom properties - combo box style
References: <f96f074b-69c9-4aca-8a81-483282d8f6eb@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkfjh0$156$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
Message-ID: <ac938b8e-b7d1-49e9-b279-57daaf956730@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 2:59?pm, David Boddie <da... at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> On Tuesday 02 February 2010 22:25, Andrew wrote:
>
> > I am creating custom widgets for the PyQt4 Designer. I can create
> > custom properties, but I'm looking for how to create a custom property
> > that has a combo box drop down. I've seen them in the example widgets
> > and tried following them, but they are using pre-defined items to
> > populate their property, so it's not a very clear example of how to
> > get the combo box property to work.
>
> Can you explain a bit more about what you have seen and what you are
> trying to do. Are you trying to create a property that is treated
> specially by Designer or do you want to get the data for the combo
> box from somewhere else?

I'm attempting to create a drop down property for a custom widget I'm
creating. So when in designer and you scroll down to the custom
properties, under the regular widget properties, one of them would be
a drop down menu. The data to populate it will be coming from our API
and currently is a list of string-items. Yes, it would be treated
specially by Designer, since it's the only place it would be seen.

In the PyQt4\examples\designer folder, it carries a number of custom
widgets that will load into designer. The datetimeedit widget creates
a custom drop down menu property. The plugin pulls its information
from the QtCore libraries and from the QCalander Widget. Though I am
unable to find a better example or even explanation of how it's
actually creating that drop down menu.

>
> > Is there any other examples or help for this kind of setup?
>
> Have you seen this article?
>
> ?http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qq/qq26-pyqtdesigner.html

No, I haven't, thanks. That might step in the right direction. I can't
run it right now, so I'm not sure if it is putting a spinbox as it's
property or just the value from the spin box.

>
> David

Andrew


From keakon at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:33:24 2010
From: keakon at gmail.com (keakon)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:33:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: which
References: <mailman.1952.1265379634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e702fad2-cdb2-47bd-b4a0-5af86c7370e5@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

self.cmd = cmd.replace(r'${ADDR}',ip) if isinstance(cmd, str) else cmd


From cameron.jp at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:40:26 2010
From: cameron.jp at gmail.com (Jeff Cameron)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:40:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <f1df3934-4604-49a1-bf11-7f3c885e10b1@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 11:18?pm, "Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps)"
<toylet.toy... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06-Feb-10 08:02, Forthminder wrote:
>
> > Contest runs from 4 February to 26 February 2010.
> >http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/problem_description.php
> > Bonne Chance!
>
> It's definitely *not* exactly a programming challenge, but algorithm
> challenge.
>
> A programming (only) challenge should only require the players to write
> codes to implement an algorithm.
>
> This one requires both algorithm design & programming.
>
> --
> ? ?@~@ ? Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
> ? / v \ ?Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
> /( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) ?Linux 2.6.32.7
> ? ?^ ^ ? 12:16:01 up 6 days 20:22 2 users load average: 0.45 0.26 0.09
> ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA):http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

Hello, this is Jeff Cameron, the organizer of the Google AI Challenge.
I'm glad to see all this interest in our humble little contest. I wish
you all the best of luck, and encourage everyone to try their hand at
writing an AI for Tron! www.ai-contest.com


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb  6 04:45:03 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:45:03 -0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7xpr4ihf4w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps)" <toylet.toylet at gmail.com> writes:
> It's definitely *not* exactly a programming challenge, but algorithm
> challenge.
> A programming (only) challenge should only require the players to
> write codes to implement an algorithm.

Eh?  Just about every interesting programming challenge is mostly about
algorithm selection.  Try some Project Euler for example.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:56:41 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:56:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8bd7$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<mailman.2018.1265412985.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6ee9e549-081b-4f22-9f08-62440df85d5d@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 3:36?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>
> <st... at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > For instance, if getting or setting the voltage is an expensive
> > operation, you don't want to fool the user into thinking it is a cheap
> > attribute access.
>
> I strongly disagree with this rationale as it violates the Uniform
> Access Principle
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_access_principle). Though I
> concede Python's builtins don't adhere to the UAP.

And I strongly disagree with the Uniform Access Principle.  I want my
accesses to an object to be explicitly "data-like" or "method-like",
even if

Based on the Wikipedia page, Meyer's main reason behind UAP seems to
be to minimize the need to break interfaces: the UAP is a means to an
end.  Python achieves that end without the conforming to UAP,
therefore it doesn't need it, and there's no reason to adhere to it.


Carl Banks


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Sat Feb  6 06:21:46 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:21:46 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>
	<op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <4B6D50CA.5070006@bluewin.ch>

Gabriel,
   Thanks for your hints. I take them up one by one:

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:23:57 -0300, Anthra Norell
> <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> escribi?:
>
>>>>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>>>>    window. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
>>>> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
>>>> tips?
>
> I'd suggest a couple more tests.
> Open the Python interpreter and execute:
>
> py> from idlelib import idle
>
> This *should* launch IDLE, or raise an error... 
 >>> import idle
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:/PYTHON25/Lib/IDLELIB\idle.pyw", line 6, in <module>
    import PyShell
  File "C:\Python25\Lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line 3, in <module>
ImportError: No module named os

 >>> import os
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ImportError: No module named os


> If nothing happens, exit
> the process and open another one, and execute:
>
> py> import Tkinter
 >>> import Tkinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\PYTHON25\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 37, in <module>
    import FixTk # Attempt to configure Tcl/Tk without requiring PATH
  File "C:\PYTHON25\lib\lib-tk\FixTk.py", line 1, in <module>
    import sys, os
ImportError: No module named os

>
> py> root = Tkinter.Tk()
> py> root.mainloop()
>
> An empty window should appear. If not, I'd say something is wrong with 
> the
> Tcl/Tk libraries.
>
>> For the time being 2.4 works fine. I'd much prefer 2.5, though, 
>> because it includes the image library (PIL), whereas 2.4 cannot even 
>> use it.
>
> PIL has an impressive compatibility record - it works with *any* Python
> version from 1.5.2 up. You should be able to use PIL with 2.4 without
> problems.
>

Another good hint to a side issue: I should download PIL for P2.4. I 
guess it wasn't available back then and so I continued doing images with 
P2.2.

The real issue seems to be  a missing module "os".

C:\PYTHON25\LIB>dir os.*

 Volume in drive C is PKBACK# 001
 Volume Serial Number is 07D1-0103
 Directory of C:\PYTHON25\Lib

OS       PY         25,211  08-03-06  9:27a OS.PY
OS       PYC        24,430  06-05-08  6:45p OS.PYC
         2 file(s)         49,641 bytes
         0 dir(s)        2,635.30 MB free

Here we are! Somehow the name got upper-cased! There's a whole bunch  
(131) of upper-cased names in the Lib I shall install the whole thing 
from scratch. That should take care if it. Thank you very much.

Frederic (Looking forward to Linux!)



From tompelka at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 06:38:39 2010
From: tompelka at gmail.com (Tomas Pelka)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:38:39 +0100
Subject: how to run part of my python code as root
In-Reply-To: <a79c4871-efcc-47d0-bcb9-96e97e1d03c4@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1917.1265310357.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a79c4871-efcc-47d0-bcb9-96e97e1d03c4@q4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6D54BF.90903@gmail.com>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2:05 pm, Tomas Pelka <tompe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>> is there possibility how to run part of my code (function for example)
>> as superuser.
>>
>> Or only way how to do this is create a wrapper and run is with Popen
>> through sudo (but I have to configure sudo to run "whole" python as root).
>

thank you for excellent explanation.

> In decreasing order of desirability:
> 1. Find a way to not need root access (e.g. grant another user or
> group access to whatever resource you're trying to access).
> 2. Isolate the stuff that needs root access into a small helper
> program that does strict validation of all input (including arguments,
> environment, etc); when needed, run that process under sudo or
> similar.

I thing this approach is the best for me. But how to connect two
separated processes, one running with root privileges and second without
superuser privileges? Is was thinking about Queues from multiprocessing,
didn't you know if it is a good choice?

> 2a. Have some sort of well-verified helper daemon that has access to
> the resource you need and mediates use of that resource.
> 3. Run the process as root, using seteuid() to switch between user and
> root privs.  The entire program must be heavily verified and do strict
> validation of all inputs.  Any attacker who gets control over the
> process can easily switch to root privs and do damage.  This is
> generally a bad idea.


-- 
Tom

Key fingerprint = 06C0 23C6 9EB7 0761 9807  65F4 7F6F 7EAB 496B 28AA


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 06:48:56 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Feb 2010 11:48:56 GMT
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
Message-ID: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods 
which have been decorated.


Here is my test file:

# ======
class MyStaticMethod(object):
    """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor."""
    def __init__(self, f):
        self.f = f
    def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
        return self.f

class Test(object):
    def method1(self):
        """Doc string

        >>> print 'x'
        x
        """

    @staticmethod
    def method2():
        """Doc string

        >>> print 'y'
        y
        """

    @MyStaticMethod
    def method3():
        """Doc string

        >>> print '***'  # This test should fail.
        z
        """

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import doctest
    doctest.testmod(verbose=True)
# ======


and here is the output using Python 2.6.4:

[steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 test_doctests.py
Trying:
    print 'x'
Expecting:
    x
ok
Trying:
    print 'y'
Expecting:
    y
ok
5 items had no tests:
    __main__
    __main__.MyStaticMethod
    __main__.MyStaticMethod.__get__
    __main__.MyStaticMethod.__init__
    __main__.Test
2 items passed all tests:
   1 tests in __main__.Test.method1
   1 tests in __main__.Test.method2
2 tests in 7 items.
2 passed and 0 failed.
Test passed.


It doesn't even see method3, let alone run the tests.


This looks like  bug to me. Have I missed anything?

Any work arounds?



-- 
Steven


From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb  6 07:09:06 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:09:06 +0100
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6d5be2$0$21960$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,



Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>>
>> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with
>> CTRL-C
>>
>> The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under
>> Windows)
>>
>> If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
>> It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
>> function.
> 
> Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
> On previous versions you may use this:]



I', using python 2.6.4 nd neither on Win-XP nor on Win-7 I'm capable to
abort with CTR-C ?


On Linux however I can use CTRL-C .


> 
> class MyXMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer):
> 
>     ... your methods ...
> 
>     if not hasattr(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, 'shutdown'):
> 
>         # pre 2.6
>         quit = False
> 
>         def serve_forever(self):
>             while not self.quit:
>                 self.handle_request()
> 
>         def shutdown(self):
>             self.quit = True
> 
>         def server_bind(self):
>             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
>             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)
> 


I tried something similiar, but without setting the socket timeout.
I'll try it now with.


N



From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 07:10:48 2010
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:10:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: "Nim" game being created, no GUI used... Need tips...
References: <1b07ab151002051954hf3c946bqf4f306184228da40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkjm88$ne4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:54:48 -0600, Jordan Uchima wrote:

Hello Jordan,

You could try something like this (not tested, and maybe I don't 
quite "get" the rules):

"""
Nim game.

In response to question on c.l.p.

"""

# Start with pot of thirteen pieces and two players.
# Each player takes 1 - 4 pieces each turn.
# Player who takes the last piece loses.


# Declare constants.
NUMBER_OF_PLAYERS = 2
TOTAL_PIECES_AT_START = 13

# Declare functions.

def rules():
    """Print the rules of the game."""
    print 'Some rules'

def get_players():
    """Get the names of the players."""
    # Let's put the player's names in a list.
    players = []
    # Looping like this saves us repeating lines of code for each player.
    for player in range(NUMBER_OF_PLAYERS):
        name = raw_input("Hello Player %d, what is your name?\n" % player)
        players.append(player)
    return players

def take_turn(player):
    """Handle a player's turn."""
    # Turn logic goes here.
    # Left as an exercise :)
    the_remaining_number_of_pieces_after_this_turn = 1
    return the_remaining_number_of_pieces_after_this_turn
        

def main():
    """Run the game."""
    # Display the rules by calling rules function.
    rules()
    # Get the players by calling the get_players function.
    players = get_players()
    # Set up the game.
    remaining_pieces = TOTAL_PIECES_AT_START
    playing = True
    # Main loop - let's play!
    while playing:
        # Take turns.
        for player in players:
            remaining_pieces = take_turn(player)
            # Check if this player has lost.
            if remaining_pieces == 0:
                # Player has taken last piece.
                print 'Sorry %s, you have lost.' % player
                # Break out of the loop
                playing = False
                break


# Automatically run main function if we're run as a script.
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

# End.

The "while" loop in the main function runs the game until a winner
(or loser in this case) is declared.  The "for" loop within the while 
loop handles the alternation of turns.  Have a look at the python 
tutorial at http://docs.python.org/tutorial/index.html for more on 
"while" and "for" statements.

Use functions to break up the code into related sections.  Check out 
the tutorial material for functions too.

This skeleton should give you a starting structure for your program.

Have fun :)

Kev




From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 08:09:10 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 08:09:10 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
In-Reply-To: <29236418-FA36-49FB-A45B-AA414A21AE79@declaresub.com>
References: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
	<5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>
	<29236418-FA36-49FB-A45B-AA414A21AE79@declaresub.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002060509w56f9fce1wf72dc56d7a70d3cb@mail.gmail.com>

If you browse the Python source tree, you should be able to find it.

http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/exceptions.c?revision=77045&view=markup

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Charles Yeomans <charles at declaresub.com> wrote:
>
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Gerald Britton wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Charles Yeomans <charles at declaresub.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am so far unable to find the information I want about the Exception
>>> class.
>>> ?Information like the signature of __init__ seems to be unavailable. ?Any
>>> suggestions where I might find such information?
>>>
>>
>> Though not documented, some silly tests indicate that it will accept
>> pretty much anything:
>>
>>>>> Exception(1,2,4,54)
>>
>> Exception(1, 2, 4, 54)
>>>>>
>>>>> Exception(*range(10))
>>
>> Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
>>>>>
>>>>> Exception(*range(50))
>>
>> Exception(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16,
>> 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33,
>> 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49)
>>>>>
>>>>> Exception('a','b','c','d','e')
>>
>> Exception('a', 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e')
>>>>>
>>>>> Exception(Exception(1))
>>
>> Exception(Exception(1,),)
>
> I had also tried such tests. ?If you pass a single argument msg, it is
> assigned to the message property, and the args property is set to (msg,). If
> you pass more than one argument, the tuple of arguments is assigned to the
> args property, and nothing is assigned to the message property. ?I was
> hoping to at least find source code that provides a definitive answer.
>
>
> Charles Yeomans
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Sat Feb  6 08:33:57 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:33:57 +0100
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
In-Reply-To: <4B6D50CA.5070006@bluewin.ch>
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>	<op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
	<4B6D50CA.5070006@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <4B6D6FC5.3000705@bluewin.ch>

Gabriel,
   After reinstalling the whole package things are shaping up. It still 
doesn't work but it fails more to the point of your suggestions. I 
update the responses to your questions:

Anthra Norell wrote:
> Gabriel,
>   Thanks for your hints. I take them up one by one:
>
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:23:57 -0300, Anthra Norell
>> <anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> escribi?:
>>
>>>>>    I upgraded from 2.4 to 2.5 and am unable to start an 2.5 idle
>>>>>    window. The OS is Windows ME. The download of 2.5 finished with a
>>>>> warning saying that 2.5 was the highest version for Windows 9* Any
>>>>> tips?
>>
>> I'd suggest a couple more tests.
>> Open the Python interpreter and execute:
>>
>> py> from idlelib import idle
>>
>> This *should* launch IDLE, or raise an error... 
>
 >>> import idle
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:/PYTHON25/lib/IDLELIB\idle.py", line 19, in <module>
    PyShell.main()
  File "C:\Python25\Lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line 1390, in main
    root = Tk(className="Idle")
  File "C:\PYTHON25\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1647, in __init__
    self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, 
interactive, want
objects, useTk, sync, use)
_tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following 
directories:
    C:/PYTHON25/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library

Checking for the whereabouts of the tcl8.4 directory  I find it in 
C:/PYTHON25/TCL together with a few more plus some files.

C:\PYTHON25\TCL>dir


 Volume in drive C is PKBACK# 001
 Volume Serial Number is 07D1-0103
 Directory of C:\PYTHON25\TCL

.              <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p .
..             <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p ..
TCL84    LIB       191,802  03-27-06  4:23p tcl84.lib
TCLSTU~1 LIB         2,264  03-27-06  4:23p tclstub84.lib
DDE1     2     <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p DDE1.2
REG1     1     <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p REG1.1
TCL8     4     <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p TCL8.4
TK8      4     <DIR>        11-25-08  4:09p TK8.4
TK84     LIB       167,288  03-27-06  4:44p tk84.lib
TKSTUB84 LIB         2,988  03-27-06  4:43p tkstub84.lib
TIX8     4     <DIR>        02-06-10  1:09p tix8.4
         4 file(s)        364,342 bytes
         7 dir(s)        2,569.25 MB free


This is the way the installer fixed it. The thing to do seems to be to 
move the tcl8.4 dirctory to the lib directory. Before I start upsetting 
things, perhaps you would know whether the whole TCL subtree should move.

Frederic



From toylet.toylet at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 08:41:52 2010
From: toylet.toylet at gmail.com (Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps))
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:41:52 +0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
In-Reply-To: <7xpr4ihf4w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>	<hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7xpr4ihf4w.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hkjrj0$e1j$3@news.eternal-september.org>

> Eh?  Just about every interesting programming challenge is mostly about
> algorithm selection.  Try some Project Euler for example.

Everyone back then has abused the "programming" word to meant doing 
everything (algorithms (system analysis & design), data structures, 
coding, testing, documentation, auditing, ....) at cheap 
salaries+benefits and tight schedules!

-- 
   @~@   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
  / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10)  Linux 2.6.32.7
   ^ ^   21:40:01 up 7 days 5:46 2 users load average: 0.00 0.04 0.01
???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa


From toylet.toylet at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 08:43:28 2010
From: toylet.toylet at gmail.com (Man-wai Chang to The Door (24000bps))
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:43:28 +0800
Subject: Google AI Challenge at U of Waterloo
In-Reply-To: <f1df3934-4604-49a1-bf11-7f3c885e10b1@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <4152d196-6491-446b-bc69-5bf54109b354@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<hkiqj0$dpj$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<f1df3934-4604-49a1-bf11-7f3c885e10b1@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkjrm3$gt1$1@news.eternal-september.org>

> Hello, this is Jeff Cameron, the organizer of the Google AI Challenge.
> I'm glad to see all this interest in our humble little contest. I wish
> you all the best of luck, and encourage everyone to try their hand at
> writing an AI for Tron! www.ai-contest.com

Someone please dumb the Tron ROM from the MAME32 project and use it as 
baseline answer. :)

-- 
   @~@   Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
  / v \  Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10)  Linux 2.6.32.7
   ^ ^   21:42:01 up 7 days 5:48 2 users load average: 0.00 0.02 0.00
???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa


From wgaggioli at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 09:51:53 2010
From: wgaggioli at gmail.com (Sir Wilhelm the Sturdy)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 06:51:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Calendar GUI
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com> 
	<1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2033.1265439876.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4bb356ba-b043-444e-a318-6ec010028bb4@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 12:59?am, Michael Torrie <torr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Gabriel wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggi... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
> >> them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
> >> is acalendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
> >> staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
> >> action. Rather than writing acalendarguimyself, is there some open-source
> >>calendarprogram you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
> >> be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
> >> that something simple and clean is ideal.
>
> > I wrote a gtkguifor googlecalendar.
>
> > Maybe you can adapt it to your needs.
>
> >http://code.google.com/p/googlecalendar-gtk/
>
> Would this work without an internet connection? ?The original poster
> stated that internet isn't so reliable, hence the need for a local solution.

The functionality of Google calendar would be perfect, but it needs to
be run locally.


From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Sat Feb  6 10:45:39 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 09:45:39 -0600
Subject: Need installer recommendation
Message-ID: <6q2rm5htqdj2puinbg9pmkco8o6nhd72h5@4ax.com>

Hi,

I could use a recommendation on a free installer for use by an
unsophisticated programmer, that would be me, for some simple programs
which are a bit more than "Hello World," but only a little.  Basically
reading text files and processing the results.  Nothing fancy.  I am
using PY2EXE to create the distribution.

In doing the Google, and from past posting here, I see that most
recommendations are for inno and nsis.  I expect that either would do
what I want.  Is one a better choice for someone to learn enough to do
basic stuff without getting bogged down in details which are not
immediately important?


--
Alan


From charles at declaresub.com  Sat Feb  6 11:05:42 2010
From: charles at declaresub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:05:42 -0500
Subject: Exception class documentation
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002060509w56f9fce1wf72dc56d7a70d3cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4AE681DA-19BD-464E-BD14-ECF1E7261581@declareSub.com>
	<5d1a32001002051113g5eda1d6dwa4dd605c56e19002@mail.gmail.com>
	<29236418-FA36-49FB-A45B-AA414A21AE79@declaresub.com>
	<5d1a32001002060509w56f9fce1wf72dc56d7a70d3cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35733041-2A61-4E19-9730-D5065CA6E826@declaresub.com>


On Feb 6, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Gerald Britton wrote:

> If you browse the Python source tree, you should be able to find it.
>
> http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/exceptions.c?revision=77045&view=markup
>


Perfect (even if I have to read C).  Thanks.

Charles Yeomans


From mark.wendell at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 12:19:46 2010
From: mark.wendell at gmail.com (mark.wendell)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 09:19:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: optparse print_help question
Message-ID: <db75fa98-8c61-42d7-8915-ab355896dd9a@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Is there a way to use the optparser parser.print_help() so that it
ONLY prints out the options, and NOT the usage?

thanks


From benjamin at python.org  Sat Feb  6 12:56:40 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:56:40 -0600
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 2.7 alpha 3
Message-ID: <1afaf6161002060956o4b303053pfd8b37922bea904f@mail.gmail.com>

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm cheerful to announce the third
alpha release of Python 2.7.

Python 2.7 is scheduled (by Guido and Python-dev) to be the last major version
in the 2.x series.  Though more major releases have not been absolutely ruled
out, it's likely that the 2.7 release will an extended period of maintenance for
the 2.x series.

2.7 includes many features that were first released in Python 3.1.  The faster
io module, the new nested with statement syntax, improved float repr, set
literals, dictionary views, and the memoryview object have been backported from
3.1. Other features include an ordered dictionary implementation, unittests
improvements, a new sysconfig module, and support for ttk Tile in Tkinter.  For
a more extensive list of changes in 2.7, see
http://doc.python.org/dev/whatsnew/2.7.html or Misc/NEWS in the Python
distribution.

To download Python 2.7 visit:

     http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.7/

Please note that this is a development release, intended as a preview of new
features for the community, and is thus not suitable for production use.

The 2.7 documentation can be found at:

     http://docs.python.org/2.7

Please consider trying Python 2.7 with your code and reporting any bugs you may
notice to:

     http://bugs.python.org


Enjoy!

--
Benjamin Peterson
2.7 Release Manager
benjamin at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 2.7's contributors)


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 13:24:21 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:24:21 -0500
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in a list?
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>

I'm working on a naive K-nearest-neighbors selection criteria for an optical
character recognition problem.

After I build my training set, I test each new image against against the
trained feature vectors and record the scores as follows:

match_vals = [(match_val_1, identifier_a), (match_val_2, identifier_b) ....
] and so on..

then I sort the list so the smallest match_val's appear first (indictating a
strong match, so I may end up with something like this:

[(match_val_291, identifier_b), (match_val_23, identifier_b), (match_val_22,
identifer_k) .... ]

Now, what I would like to do is step through this list and find the
identifier which appears first a K number of times.

Naively, I could make a dict and iterate through the list AND the dict at
the same time and keep a tally, breaking when the criteria is met.

such as:

def getnn(match_vals):
    tallies = defaultdict(lambda: 0)
    for match_val, ident in match_vals:
        tallies[ident] += 1
        for ident, tally in tallies.iteritems():
            if tally == 5:
                return ident

I would think there is a better way to do this. Any ideas?

Cheers!

Chris
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 13:54:09 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 00:24:09 +0530
Subject: how to fix bugs (python)
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061054v7b8542fcp54e1b6c7d1bf5dc7@mail.gmail.com>

I am interested in fixing bugs in python. Are there entry-level bugs in
python which makes me familiarize with the process just like gnome have
gnome-love ? Just a small start-up guidance will be a big favour as I have
never fixed any.

Thanks,
~l0nwlf
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 13:56:25 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:56:25 -0500
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in
	a list?
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkke0m$jih$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 1:24 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
> I'm working on a naive K-nearest-neighbors selection criteria for an
> optical character recognition problem.
>
> After I build my training set, I test each new image against against the
> trained feature vectors and record the scores as follows:
>
> match_vals = [(match_val_1, identifier_a), (match_val_2, identifier_b)
> .... ] and so on..
>
> then I sort the list so the smallest match_val's appear first
> (indictating a strong match, so I may end up with something like this:
>
> [(match_val_291, identifier_b), (match_val_23, identifier_b),
> (match_val_22, identifer_k) .... ]
>
> Now, what I would like to do is step through this list and find the
> identifier which appears first a K number of times.
>
> Naively, I could make a dict and iterate through the list AND the dict
> at the same time and keep a tally, breaking when the criteria is met.
>
> such as:
>
> def getnn(match_vals):
>      tallies = defaultdict(lambda: 0)
>      for match_val, ident in match_vals:
>          tallies[ident] += 1
>          for ident, tally in tallies.iteritems():
>              if tally == 5:
>                  return ident
>
> I would think there is a better way to do this. Any ideas?

You only need to check that the incremented tally is 5, which is to say, 
that the about-to-be-incremented tally is 4.
	t = tallies[ident]
         if t < 4: tallies[ident] = t+1
         else: return ident



From jjposner at optimum.net  Sat Feb  6 14:00:28 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:00:28 -0500
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
In-Reply-To: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6DBC4C.4080100@optimum.net>

On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> class MyStaticMethod(object):
>      """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor."""
>      def __init__(self, f):
>          self.f = f
>      def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
>          return self.f

How about using a function, instead of a class, to implement the decorator:

import functools
def MyStaticMethod(f):
     @functools.wraps(f)
     def _wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
         return f(*args, **kwargs)
     return _wrapper


For me, this produces the hoped-for doctest failure in 
__main__.Test.method3.

I tried making the class-based implementation work by using 
functools.wraps(), but I couldn't manage it. Also, doesn't the decorator 
protocol want the class to implement a __call__() method, not a 
__get__() method? Or am I getting hung up (not the first time) at the 
nexus of the descriptor and decorator protocols?

-John




From rrr at ronadam.com  Sat Feb  6 14:03:47 2010
From: rrr at ronadam.com (Ron Adam)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:03:47 -0600
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1802.1265149439.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a8061fb8-4db4-42f7-832a-982e99252ab0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkkeei$ku0$1@ger.gmane.org>



Xah Lee wrote:

> For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
> written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
> detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
> freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
> be found on my website, search for ?ban xah lee?.

Xah,

Often (in the past) most of your posts have come across as complaints or 
ones pointing out problems or comparisons of the negative sort.  Your 
overall negative tone is just one of the reasons you get labeled a troll.

I suggest you try to be less confrontational and more positive.  Use your 
expertise and intelligence to help others but don't be offended if they 
don't agree with you.  There's more than one way to do almost everything 
and sometimes the best way for "a person" to do it is the way that person 
is able to grasp it.

Regards,
   Ron



From wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de  Sat Feb  6 14:09:01 2010
From: wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de (Wolodja Wentland)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:09:01 +0100
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in a
	list?
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local>

On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 13:24 -0500, Chris Colbert wrote:
> [(match_val_291, identifier_b), (match_val_23, identifier_b), (match_val_22,
> identifer_k) .... ]
> 
> Now, what I would like to do is step through this list and find the identifier
> which appears first a K number of times.

I think you can use the itertools.groupby(L, lambda el: el[1]) to group
elements in your *sorted* list L by the value el[1] (i.e. the
identifier) and then iterate through these groups until you find the
desired number of instances grouped by the same identifier.

Let me exemplify this:

>>> from itertools import groupby
>>> instances = [(1, 'b'), (2, 'b'), (3, 'a'), (4, 'c'), (5, 'c'), (6, 'c'), (7, 'd')]
>>> k = 3
>>> grouped_by_identifier = groupby(instances, lambda el: el[1])
>>> grouped_by_identifier = ((identifier, list(group)) for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier)
>>> k_instances = (group for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier if len(group) == k)
>>> next(k_instances)
[(4, 'c'), (5, 'c'), (6, 'c')]
>>> next(k_instances)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<input>", line 1, in <module>
StopIteration

There are certainly millions of ways to do this and most of them will be
better than my proposal here, but you might like this approach. Another
approach would use itertools.takewhile() or itertools.ifilter() ... Just
have a look :-)

yours sincerely
-- 
  .''`.     Wolodja Wentland    <wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de> 
 : :'  :    
 `. `'`     4096R/CAF14EFC 
   `-       081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA  36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC
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From jim.hefferon at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:09:31 2010
From: jim.hefferon at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:09:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
Message-ID: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
syntax irregularities.

I am familiar with Beautiful Soup (use it all the time) but it is
intended to cope with bad syntax.  I just tried feeding
HTMLParser.HTMLParser some HTML containing '<p>a<b>b</p></b>' and it
didn't complain.

That is, this:
        h=HTMLParser.HTMLParser()
        try:
            h.feed('<p>a<b>b</p></b>')
            h.close()
            print "I expect not to see this line"
        except Exception, err:
            print "exception:",str(err)
gives me "I expect not to see this line".

Am I using that routine incorrectly?  Is there a natural Python choice
for this job?

Thanks,
Jim


From jim.hefferon at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:35:34 2010
From: jim.hefferon at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:35:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6dc27c$0$1608$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <f4f47199-af5c-4a89-be39-0b925ddd98ef@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

Thank you, John.  I did not find that by looking around; I must not
have used the right words.  The speed of the unit tests are not
critical so this seems like the solution for me.

Jim


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:36:46 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 11:36:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
Message-ID: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
output all the matches. For example, given ?[1|2|3]{2}? as the regular
expression, the program should output all 9 matches, i.e., "11 12 13
21 22 23 31 32 33".

Is there any well-written routine in Python or third-party program to
do this? If there isn't, could somebody make some suggestions on how
to write it myself?

Thanks.

Zhuo


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 14:39:00 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:39:00 -0500
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
In-Reply-To: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkkggh$qpc$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods
> which have been decorated.
>
>
> Here is my test file:
>
> # ======
> class MyStaticMethod(object):
>      """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor."""
>      def __init__(self, f):
>          self.f = f
>      def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
>          return self.f
>
> class Test(object):
>      def method1(self):
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print 'x'
>          x
>          """
>
>      @staticmethod
>      def method2():
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print 'y'
>          y
>          """
>
>      @MyStaticMethod
>      def method3():
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print '***'  # This test should fail.
>          z
>          """
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      import doctest
>      doctest.testmod(verbose=True)
> # ======
>
>
> and here is the output using Python 2.6.4:
>
> [steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 test_doctests.py
> Trying:
>      print 'x'
> Expecting:
>      x
> ok
> Trying:
>      print 'y'
> Expecting:
>      y
> ok
> 5 items had no tests:
>      __main__
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod.__get__
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod.__init__
>      __main__.Test
> 2 items passed all tests:
>     1 tests in __main__.Test.method1
>     1 tests in __main__.Test.method2
> 2 tests in 7 items.
> 2 passed and 0 failed.
> Test passed.
>
>
> It doesn't even see method3, let alone run the tests.

Method3 is wrapped as an instance of MyStaticMethod and doctest does not 
see that as function. Even if it did, you would might have to copy the 
docstring (self.__doc__ = f.__doc__) to have the test run.

Note the following: (3.1)

 >>> Test.method3
<function method3 at 0x00F5F7C8>
 >>> Test.__dict__['method3']
<__main__.MyStaticMethod object at 0x00F5CDF0>
 >>> Test.__dict__['method2']
<staticmethod object at 0x00F5C290>

Doctest has to scan the dict, so it does not see the attribute-lookup 
result.

> This looks like  bug to me. Have I missed anything?

I would call it a limitation as I do not see the doc as promising 
otherwise. I believe doctest predates the descripter protocol, at least 
in its current form, so it may not be completely descriptor-aware. You 
certainly could file a feature request for improved recognition and 
subsequent calling of __get__. An initial patch would improve chances of 
action.

 > Any workarounds?

Perhaps look at the doctest source to see why staticmethod instances are 
recognized as functions.

If doctest directly special-cases their recognition, then use the 
standard nested function approach for decorators, making sure to copy 
the doc string. Look at functools.wraps.

If doctest recognizes them by some characteristic that you have not 
emulated, try to improve that.

Terry Jan Reedy


Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 14:42:52 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:42:52 -0500
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in
	a list?
In-Reply-To: <20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local>
Message-ID: <hkkgno$re4$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 2:09 PM, Wolodja Wentland wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 13:24 -0500, Chris Colbert wrote:
>> [(match_val_291, identifier_b), (match_val_23, identifier_b), (match_val_22,
>> identifer_k) .... ]
>>
>> Now, what I would like to do is step through this list and find the identifier
>> which appears first a K number of times.
>
> I think you can use the itertools.groupby(L, lambda el: el[1]) to group
> elements in your *sorted* list L by the value el[1] (i.e. the
> identifier) and then iterate through these groups until you find the
> desired number of instances grouped by the same identifier.

This will generally not return the same result. It depends on whether OP 
wants *any* item appearing at least 5 times or whether the order is 
significant and the OP literally wants the first. Sorting the entire 
list may also take a *lot* longer.

Terry Jan Reedy



From nagle at animats.com  Sat Feb  6 14:43:19 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:43:19 -0800
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
In-Reply-To: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6dc27c$0$1608$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Jim wrote:
> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
> syntax irregularities.
> 
> I am familiar with Beautiful Soup (use it all the time) but it is
> intended to cope with bad syntax.  I just tried feeding
> HTMLParser.HTMLParser some HTML containing '<p>a<b>b</p></b>' and it
> didn't complain.

    Try HTML5lib.

	http://code.google.com/p/html5lib/downloads/list

The syntax for HTML5 has well-defined notions of "correct",
"fixable", and "unparseable".  For example, the common but
incorrect form of HTML comments,

	<- comment ->

is understood.

HTML5lib is slow, though.  Sometimes very slow.  It's really a reference 
implementation of the spec.  There's code like this:

     #Should speed up this check somehow (e.g. move the set to a constant)
             if ((0x0001 <= charAsInt <= 0x0008) or
                 (0x000E <= charAsInt <= 0x001F) or
                 (0x007F  <= charAsInt <= 0x009F) or
                 (0xFDD0  <= charAsInt <= 0xFDEF) or
                 charAsInt in frozenset([0x000B, 0xFFFE, 0xFFFF, 0x1FFFE,
                                         0x1FFFF, 0x2FFFE, 0x2FFFF, 0x3FFFE,
                                         0x3FFFF, 0x4FFFE, 0x4FFFF, 0x5FFFE,
                                         0x5FFFF, 0x6FFFE, 0x6FFFF, 0x7FFFE,
                                         0x7FFFF, 0x8FFFE, 0x8FFFF, 0x9FFFE,
                                         0x9FFFF, 0xAFFFE, 0xAFFFF, 0xBFFFE,
                                         0xBFFFF, 0xCFFFE, 0xCFFFF, 0xDFFFE,
                                         0xDFFFF, 0xEFFFE, 0xEFFFF, 0xFFFFE,
                                         0xFFFFF, 0x10FFFE, 0x10FFFF])):
                 self.tokenQueue.append({"type": tokenTypes["ParseError"],
                                         "data":
                                          "illegal-codepoint-for-numeric-entity",
                                         "datavars": {"charAsInt": charAsInt}})

Every time through the loop (once per character), they build that frozen
set again.


				John Nagle


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 14:49:29 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:49:29 -0500
Subject: how to fix bugs (python)
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002061054v7b8542fcp54e1b6c7d1bf5dc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002061054v7b8542fcp54e1b6c7d1bf5dc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkkh46$sf2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 1:54 PM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> I am interested in fixing bugs in python. Are there entry-level bugs in
> python which makes me familiarize with the process just like gnome have
> gnome-love ? Just a small start-up guidance will be a big favour as I
> have never fixed any.

Go to
python.org/dev/
and look at various pages there. The item tracker is at
bugs.python.org
Some items are marked easy. Many items have patches that need review. 
Help is needed both with Python code (modules) and C code (core and 
modules) depending on your abilities and interest. I would start with 
looking at current items on the tracker.

Terry Jan Reedy



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 14:58:47 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:28:47 +0530
Subject: how to fix bugs (python)
In-Reply-To: <hkkh46$sf2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d4ab53de1002061054v7b8542fcp54e1b6c7d1bf5dc7@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkkh46$sf2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061158g7cf7c76dk49a65703ff03b195@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Terry. I am looking on it. :)


On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 2/6/2010 1:54 PM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> I am interested in fixing bugs in python. Are there entry-level bugs in
>> python which makes me familiarize with the process just like gnome have
>> gnome-love ? Just a small start-up guidance will be a big favour as I
>> have never fixed any.
>>
>
> Go to
> python.org/dev/
> and look at various pages there. The item tracker is at
> bugs.python.org
> Some items are marked easy. Many items have patches that need review. Help
> is needed both with Python code (modules) and C code (core and modules)
> depending on your abilities and interest. I would start with looking at
> current items on the tracker.
>
> Terry Jan Reedy
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From wgaggioli at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 15:06:04 2010
From: wgaggioli at gmail.com (Sir Wilhelm the Sturdy)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:06:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Subclassing datetime.date
Message-ID: <d2ac5323-d5aa-4448-a289-eeb7d501bb19@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I recently attempted to subclass the datetime.date object resulting in
horror and confusion, before submitting to a has-a relationship.
That's all fine and dandy, but out of curiosity I'd like to know what
I'm missing.

I was attempting to allow more flexible instancing of an object, like
so:

import datetime

class MyDate(datetime.date):

    def __init__(self,*args,**kw):

        if len(kw) + len(args) > 1:
            self.construct(*args,**kw)

    def construct(self,d,m=None,y=None,**kw):

        today = datetime.date.today()
        if m is None:
            m = today.month
        if y is None:
            y = today.year

        datetime.date.__init__(self,y,m,d,**kw)


However, it wasn't having the desired effect. Indeed, I could still
only instance it with 3 variables lest I get errors, and when I did
call it with 3 variables it didn't reflect the order change I had
implemented. Indeed, the properties were already set before it even
got to the construct method.

Is there some kind of built in I'm missing here?

Thanks all,
Will


From wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de  Sat Feb  6 15:25:40 2010
From: wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de (Wolodja Wentland)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:25:40 +0100
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in a
	list?
In-Reply-To: <hkkgno$re4$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local> <hkkgno$re4$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20100206202540.GC2508@kinakuta.local>

On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 14:42 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/6/2010 2:09 PM, Wolodja Wentland wrote:

> >I think you can use the itertools.groupby(L, lambda el: el[1]) to group
> >elements in your *sorted* list L by the value el[1] (i.e. the
> >identifier) and then iterate through these groups until you find the
> >desired number of instances grouped by the same identifier.

> This will generally not return the same result. It depends on
> whether OP wants *any* item appearing at least 5 times or whether
> the order is significant and the OP literally wants the first.

Order is preserved by itertools.groupby - Have a look:

>>> instances = [(1, 'b'), (2, 'b'), (3, 'a'), (4, 'c'), (5, 'c'), (6, 'c'), (7, 'b'), (8, 'b')]
>>> grouped_by_identifier = groupby(instances, lambda el: el[1])
>>> grouped_by_identifier = ((identifier, list(group)) for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier)
>>> k_instances = (group for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier if len(group) == 2)
>>> for group in k_instances:
...     print group
... 
[(1, 'b'), (2, 'b')]
[(7, 'b'), (8, 'b')]

So the first element yielded by the k_instances generator will be the
first group of elements from the original list whose identifier appears
exactly k times in a row. 

> Sorting the entire list may also take a *lot* longer.
Than what? 

Am I missing something? Is the "*sorted*" the culprit? If yes -> Just
forget it as it is not relevant.
-- 
  .''`.     Wolodja Wentland    <wentland at cl.uni-heidelberg.de> 
 : :'  :    
 `. `'`     4096R/CAF14EFC 
   `-       081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA  36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC
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From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 15:31:52 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:31:52 +0100
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
Message-ID: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Just trying to delve into the CPython source code.

Pleasant surprise: while e.g. the gcc compiler is written in K&R C (1975 style 
C), CPython seems to be written in almost modern C (1989 and on).

But, hey, TABS used for indenting, combined haphazardly and randomly with SPACES 
used for indenting, in the same source files...

The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4, as is 
common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers configure their 
Visual Studio's to *nix convention. Or perhaps modern Visual Studio has default 
tab size 8, it wouldn't surprise me (the best version was the MSVC 6.0 Developer 
Studio, since then that IDE has only gone downhill being re-based on the Office 
Assistant inspired "for dummies" IDE that Microsoft had for web designers).

Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g. the Boost 
library project does  --  no tabs allowed.

That's much more platform-independent. :-)


Cheers,

- Alf


From david at boddie.org.uk  Sat Feb  6 15:52:20 2010
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:52:20 +0100
Subject: PyQt4 designer custom properties - combo box style
References: <f96f074b-69c9-4aca-8a81-483282d8f6eb@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkfjh0$156$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
	<ac938b8e-b7d1-49e9-b279-57daaf956730@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkkkq4$8ju$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>

On Saturday 06 February 2010 10:32, Andrew wrote:

> I'm attempting to create a drop down property for a custom widget I'm
> creating. So when in designer and you scroll down to the custom
> properties, under the regular widget properties, one of them would be
> a drop down menu. The data to populate it will be coming from our API
> and currently is a list of string-items. Yes, it would be treated
> specially by Designer, since it's the only place it would be seen.

Right. The drop down menus in the property editor usually contain values
defined for C++ enums which have been declared to Qt's meta-object system
when a C++ library or plugin is compiled. I'm not sure that PyQt can expose
lists of Python values in the same way.

An example of this is the alignment property in QLineEdit.

> In the PyQt4\examples\designer folder, it carries a number of custom
> widgets that will load into designer. The datetimeedit widget creates
> a custom drop down menu property. The plugin pulls its information
> from the QtCore libraries and from the QCalander Widget. Though I am
> unable to find a better example or even explanation of how it's
> actually creating that drop down menu.

Each of the individual properties are just single values, aren't they, not
collections of values?

>> Have you seen this article?
>>
>> http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qq/qq26-pyqtdesigner.html
> 
> No, I haven't, thanks. That might step in the right direction. I can't
> run it right now, so I'm not sure if it is putting a spinbox as it's
> property or just the value from the spin box.

The value from each spin box is turned into a property, so there are
latitude and longitude properties, though each of these only holds
a double precision floating point number. It sounds like you want to be
able to select from a list of values, or possibly change the values
themselves.

If it turns out you can't add a property to Qt Designer in the way you want,
you can still add a custom editor to the widget so that users can open a
context menu and select an item to configure it. This is similar to the way
you can open a dialog to edit the text inside QTextEdit widgets.

The article I referred to also covers this:

  http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qq/qq26-pyqtdesigner.html#makingamenu

David


From user at example.net  Sat Feb  6 16:02:07 2010
From: user at example.net (monkeys paw)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:02:07 -0500
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>

mukesh tiwari wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
> stupid.
> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> 10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> than log N.

How do you arrive at log N as the performance number?

> 
> def power(A,N,M):
>     ret=1
>     while(N):
>         if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
>         A=(A*A)%M
>         N=N//2
>     return ret


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 16:05:27 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:05:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <a8db585b-337f-41f7-a6c1-3223c89137f5@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 9:31?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> Just trying to delve into the CPython source code.
>
> Pleasant surprise: while e.g. the gcc compiler is written in K&R C (1975 style
> C), CPython seems to be written in almost modern C (1989 and on).
>
> But, hey, TABS used for indenting, combined haphazardly and randomly with SPACES
> used for indenting, in the same source files...
>
> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4, as is
> common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers configure their
> Visual Studio's to *nix convention. Or perhaps modern Visual Studio has default
> tab size 8, it wouldn't surprise me (the best version was the MSVC 6.0 Developer
> Studio, since then that IDE has only gone downhill being re-based on the Office
> Assistant inspired "for dummies" IDE that Microsoft had for web designers).
>
> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g. the Boost
> library project does ?-- ?no tabs allowed.
>
> That's much more platform-independent. :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf

So what's stopping you from doing this yourself?


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 16:12:05 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:12:05 +0100
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <a8db585b-337f-41f7-a6c1-3223c89137f5@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a8db585b-337f-41f7-a6c1-3223c89137f5@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkklv9$o9i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Andrej Mitrovic:
> On Feb 6, 9:31 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> Just trying to delve into the CPython source code.
>>
>> Pleasant surprise: while e.g. the gcc compiler is written in K&R C (1975 style
>> C), CPython seems to be written in almost modern C (1989 and on).
>>
>> But, hey, TABS used for indenting, combined haphazardly and randomly with SPACES
>> used for indenting, in the same source files...
>>
>> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4, as is
>> common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers configure their
>> Visual Studio's to *nix convention. Or perhaps modern Visual Studio has default
>> tab size 8, it wouldn't surprise me (the best version was the MSVC 6.0 Developer
>> Studio, since then that IDE has only gone downhill being re-based on the Office
>> Assistant inspired "for dummies" IDE that Microsoft had for web designers).
>>
>> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g. the Boost
>> library project does  --  no tabs allowed.
>>
>> That's much more platform-independent. :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Alf
> 
> So what's stopping you from doing this yourself?

Depends what "this" you're referring to.

If by "this" you mean, automatically converting tabs to spaces on checking out a 
newer version of a CPython source file, nothing in particular stops anyone from 
doing that. But it's needless work, and it results in "false positive" changes 
when checking in something. That's why e.g. Boost standardizes on spaces.

If by "this" you mean, changing the coding guidelines (if such exist) for the 
CPython project, well I'm not involved, so the best I can do is to float the 
idea and point to existing practice in other projects, which I've now done. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 16:19:18 2010
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:19:18 GMT
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Alf P. Steinbach:

> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.

   Most of the core developers use Unix.

> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g.
> the Boost library project does  --  no tabs allowed.

   This would damage the usefulness of source control histories (svn
annotate) as all of the converted lines would show this recent cosmetic
change rather than the previous change which is likely to be a
substantive modification.

   Neil


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb  6 16:42:29 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:42:29 -0600
Subject: Subclassing datetime.date
References: <d2ac5323-d5aa-4448-a289-eeb7d501bb19@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87vdea9h2y.fsf@castleamber.com>

Sir Wilhelm the Sturdy <wgaggioli at gmail.com> writes:

F> Hi all,
>
> I recently attempted to subclass the datetime.date object resulting in
> horror and confusion, before submitting to a has-a relationship.
> That's all fine and dandy, but out of curiosity I'd like to know what
> I'm missing.
>
> I was attempting to allow more flexible instancing of an object, like
> so:
>
> import datetime
>
> class MyDate(datetime.date):
>
>     def __init__(self,*args,**kw):
>
>         if len(kw) + len(args) > 1:
>             self.construct(*args,**kw)
>
>     def construct(self,d,m=None,y=None,**kw):
>
>         today = datetime.date.today()
>         if m is None:
>             m = today.month
>         if y is None:
>             y = today.year
>
>         datetime.date.__init__(self,y,m,d,**kw)
>
>
> However, it wasn't having the desired effect. Indeed, I could still
> only instance it with 3 variables lest I get errors, and when I did
> call it with 3 variables it didn't reflect the order change I had
> implemented. Indeed, the properties were already set before it even
> got to the construct method.

__init__ is *not* the construction method, __new__ is (at least with new
style classes)

> Is there some kind of built in I'm missing here?

I guess __new__ but I am quite the newbie.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb  6 16:44:56 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:44:56 -0600
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <87r5oy9gyv.fsf@castleamber.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:

> Just trying to delve into the CPython source code.
>
> Pleasant surprise: while e.g. the gcc compiler is written in K&R C
> (1975 style C), CPython seems to be written in almost modern C (1989
> and on).
>
> But, hey, TABS used for indenting, combined haphazardly and randomly
> with SPACES used for indenting, in the same source files...
>
> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size
> 4, as is common in Windows.

Then you are either used a broken editor or a misconfigured editor. I've
used TextPad for ages, and it can be configured to hard tab 8 (might
even be the default [1]).


[1] With Perl coding I configured it to indent 4 spaces, hard tab 4
    spaces and convert hard tabs to 4 spaces while saving, so no surprises.
-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb  6 16:45:01 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:45:01 +0100
Subject: how to add pydoc strings to 'Data and other attributes'
Message-ID: <4b6de2de$0$4830$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

I'm having some problems with pydoc and I was not very sucessful in
googling. (probably missng one key word)

Is there soemthing like a documentation of pydoc (execpt pydocs output
of pydoc,  which doesn't seem to answer my question )

I can add docstrings to
- the file head
- to a class
- to a class function
- to a property

but I don't know how document a class attribute (like 'name' ) in my
example below


Does anybody know how to doc it?

# file starts here

#
#############################################################################
# This appears in the python documentation
#
#############################################################################

__author__ = 'News123' # this will also be part of pydoc

""" general blabla will not be part of pydoc"""

class MyClass(object):
    """ This class can be doc-ed """

    name = 3 ### I don't know how to document this

    def get_f(self):
        """ the function get_f is here """
        return 3

    f = property(get_f,doc="this property is also documented")

######### file ends here


thanks for any help


N


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:08:55 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:08:55 +0000
Subject: Code snippet: dualmethod descriptor
References: <0373b8b9$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.1876.1265252957.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00f4e6e5$0$15566$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <m2d40iyq2w.fsf@googlemail.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:09:02 -0300, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>
>> En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:06:18 -0300, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> escribi?:
>> 
>>> class dualmethod(object):
> [...]
>
>> Seems useful!
>> Perhaps a better place to post it would be
>> <http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/>, at least it's
>> easier to search.
>
>
>
> Thank you for the encouragement. The recipe is now posted:
>
> http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577030/

Oddly, in Python 3 you can achieve something a bit similar very simply:

>>> class A:
...     def foo(self=None):
...         return "Instance" if self else "Class"
... 
>>> A.foo()
'Class'
>>> a = A()
>>> a.foo()
'Instance'

It works in python 3 because unbound methods are plain functions.

-- 
Arnaud


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:22:47 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:22:47 +0000
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
>> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
>> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>> two functions.
>>>>
>>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight functions?
>>>>
>>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>>
>> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
>> underline=true) to be split into:
>>
>> drawtext(s)
>> drawtextb(s)
>> drawtexti(s)
>> drawtextu(s)
>> drawtextbi(s)
>> drawtextbu(s)
>> drawtextiu(s)
>> drawtextbiu(s)
>
> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
> separate functions.

Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.

-- 
Arnaud


From roy at panix.com  Sat Feb  6 17:23:01 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:23:01 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article 
<ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5 at r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
 "hzhuo1 at gmail.com" <hzhuo1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
> Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
> output all the matches. For example, given ?[1|2|3]{2}? as the regular
> expression, the program should output all 9 matches, i.e., "11 12 13
> 21 22 23 31 32 33".
> 
> Is there any well-written routine in Python or third-party program to
> do this? If there isn't, could somebody make some suggestions on how
> to write it myself?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Zhuo

Please enumerate all the strings which match ".*".  Use additional sheets 
of paper if needed.


From benjamin at python.org  Sat Feb  6 17:26:55 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:26:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <loom.20100206T232627-581@post.gmane.org>

Neil Hodgson <nyamatongwe+thunder <at> gmail.com> writes:
>    This would damage the usefulness of source control histories (svn
> annotate) as all of the converted lines would show this recent cosmetic
> change rather than the previous change which is likely to be a
> substantive modification.

That's not completely true given svn diff -x -w.






From benjamin at python.org  Sat Feb  6 17:28:17 2010
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:28:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <loom.20100206T232708-310@post.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach <alfps <at> start.no> writes:

> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces

This has been discussed to death of Python-dev. We use spaces for all new files
and tabs for historical reasons in old files. Mixed ones should be converted one
way or the other.

> 
> That's much more platform-independent. 






From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:28:44 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 03:58:44 +0530
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061428v2489b625ubabbab32fdcd6434@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, it can be done. Have a look at :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_exponentiation
The algorithm is also mentioned in CLRS.I tried writing my own
modular-exponentiation code following CLRS but observed that python pow()
function is much more efficient.
Have a look at this problem : https://www.spoj.pl/problems/LASTDIG/
as you can see ( https://www.spoj.pl/status/LASTDIG,l0nwlf/ )my first
solution used algorithm hard-coded from CLRS which took 0.04 sec however
using pow() function directly improved the efficiency to 0.0 So I would
suggest to go for pow() unless you intend to learn modular exponentiation
algorithm for which hand-coding is a must.

here are my solutions :
first one (hand-coded):


   1. def pow(a, b):
   2.     if( not b):
   3. 	 return 1
   4.     if( b & 1 ):
   5. 	 return ( pow( a, b - 1 ) * a ) % 10
   6.
   7.     tmp = pow( a, b / 2 )
   8.     return ( tmp * tmp ) % 10;
   9.
   10. for i in xrange(input()):
   11.          a,b = [ int(x) for x in raw_input().split(' ')]
   12.          print( pow( a % 10, b ) )


second one (pow()):


   1. for i in range(int(raw_input())):
   2.         a,b = [int(x) for x in raw_input().split()]
   3.         print pow (a,b,10)
   4.


HTH
~l0nwlf

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:32 AM, monkeys paw <user at example.net> wrote:

> mukesh tiwari wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
>> stupid.
>> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
>> is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
>> 10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
>> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
>> than log N.
>>
>
> How do you arrive at log N as the performance number?
>
>
>
>> def power(A,N,M):
>>    ret=1
>>    while(N):
>>        if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
>>        A=(A*A)%M
>>        N=N//2
>>    return ret
>>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 17:31:28 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 04:01:28 +0530
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002061428v2489b625ubabbab32fdcd6434@mail.gmail.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
	<d4ab53de1002061428v2489b625ubabbab32fdcd6434@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061431p5bc119c7x395fb33057df5394@mail.gmail.com>

a nice exercise to do can be this problem :
http://www.codechef.com/MARCH09/problems/A4/ , it deals with both cases,
first and last k digits and can be performed within O(log n)

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 3:58 AM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> Yes, it can be done. Have a look at :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_exponentiation
> The algorithm is also mentioned in CLRS.I tried writing my own
> modular-exponentiation code following CLRS but observed that python pow()
> function is much more efficient.
> Have a look at this problem : https://www.spoj.pl/problems/LASTDIG/
> as you can see ( https://www.spoj.pl/status/LASTDIG,l0nwlf/ )my first
> solution used algorithm hard-coded from CLRS which took 0.04 sec however
> using pow() function directly improved the efficiency to 0.0 So I would
> suggest to go for pow() unless you intend to learn modular exponentiation
> algorithm for which hand-coding is a must.
>
> here are my solutions :
> first one (hand-coded):
>
>
>    1. def pow(a, b):
>    2.     if( not b):
>    3. 	 return 1
>    4.     if( b & 1 ):
>    5. 	 return ( pow( a, b - 1 ) * a ) % 10
>
>    6.
>    7.     tmp = pow( a, b / 2 )
>    8.     return ( tmp * tmp ) % 10;
>    9.
>    10. for i in xrange(input()):
>    11.          a,b = [ int(x) for x in raw_input().split(' ')]
>
>    12.          print( pow( a % 10, b ) )
>
>
> second one (pow()):
>
>
>    1. for i in range(int(raw_input())):
>
>    2.         a,b = [int(x) for x in raw_input().split()]
>
>    3.         print pow (a,b,10)
>    4.
>
>
> HTH
> ~l0nwlf
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:32 AM, monkeys paw <user at example.net> wrote:
>
>> mukesh tiwari wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
>>> stupid.
>>> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
>>> is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
>>> 10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
>>> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
>>> than log N.
>>>
>>
>> How do you arrive at log N as the performance number?
>>
>>
>>
>>> def power(A,N,M):
>>>    ret=1
>>>    while(N):
>>>        if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
>>>        A=(A*A)%M
>>>        N=N//2
>>>    return ret
>>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb  6 17:40:53 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:40:53 -0500
Subject: determining which value is the first to appear five times in
	a list?
In-Reply-To: <20100206202540.GC2508@kinakuta.local>
References: <7f014ea61002061024y8125faam3fc99ed43e64e82@mail.gmail.com>	<20100206190901.GB2508@kinakuta.local>
	<hkkgno$re4$1@ger.gmane.org> <20100206202540.GC2508@kinakuta.local>
Message-ID: <hkkr5h$ohi$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 3:25 PM, Wolodja Wentland wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 06, 2010 at 14:42 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 2/6/2010 2:09 PM, Wolodja Wentland wrote:
>
>>> I think you can use the itertools.groupby(L, lambda el: el[1]) to group
>>> elements in your *sorted* list L by the value el[1] (i.e. the
>>> identifier) and then iterate through these groups until you find the
>>> desired number of instances grouped by the same identifier.
>
>> This will generally not return the same result. It depends on
>> whether OP wants *any* item appearing at least 5 times or whether
>> the order is significant and the OP literally wants the first.
>
> Order is preserved by itertools.groupby - Have a look:

Sorting does not.
>
>>>> instances = [(1, 'b'), (2, 'b'), (3, 'a'), (4, 'c'), (5, 'c'), (6, 'c'), (7, 'b'), (8, 'b')]
>>>> grouped_by_identifier = groupby(instances, lambda el: el[1])
>>>> grouped_by_identifier = ((identifier, list(group)) for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier)
>>>> k_instances = (group for identifier, group in grouped_by_identifier if len(group) == 2)
>>>> for group in k_instances:
> ...     print group
> ...
> [(1, 'b'), (2, 'b')]
> [(7, 'b'), (8, 'b')]
>
> So the first element yielded by the k_instances generator will be the
> first group of elements from the original list whose identifier appears
> exactly k times in a row.
>
>> Sorting the entire list may also take a *lot* longer.
> Than what?

Than linearly scanning for the first 5x item, as in my corrected version 
of the original code.

Terry Jan Reedy



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Feb  6 17:43:23 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:43:23 +1100
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <87eikykmt0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> writes:

>  "hzhuo1 at gmail.com" <hzhuo1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What I need is that given a particular regular expression, output
> > all the matches.
[?]

> Please enumerate all the strings which match ".*". Use additional
> sheets of paper if needed.

+1 QOTW

-- 
 \     ?Are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?I think so, ... Brain, |
  `\    but how can we get seven dwarves to shave their legs?? ?_Pinky |
_o__)                                                   and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Sat Feb  6 17:53:53 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:53:53 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
Message-ID: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>

Hello all

When I create an Object and set its __iter__ method from outside

s = Sequence #one of my own classes
s.__iter__ = new.instancemethod(f,s,Sequence)

I get different results, depending on whether I call


for x in y.__iter__():
    print x

or

for x in y:
    print x

The first case does what I expected, i.e. it iterates over whatever f()
yields. In the second case nothing is printed. I have the impression
that it still calls the original __iter__() method (the one defined at
the class level).

Why is that so?
How can I replace the __iter__() method so it does what I want.

The reason I want to do such things is I need to implement operations
similar to what itertools do. However I want my own classes and the
operations are only similar to itertools, but differ in significant
details.


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Feb  6 17:59:44 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:59:44 -0500
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
In-Reply-To: <KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<KeGdncS0tc5PRfDWnZ2dnUVZ_vVi4p2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6DF460.8020403@ieee.org>

monkeys paw wrote:
> <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">mukesh 
> tiwari wrote:
>> Hello everyone. I am kind of new to python so pardon me if i sound
>> stupid.
>> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
>> is (A**N)%M but my  A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
>> 10^5. The other approach   was  repeated squaring and taking mod of
>> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
>> than log N.
>
> How do you arrive at log N as the performance number?
>
>>
>> def power(A,N,M):
>>     ret=1
>>     while(N):
>>         if(N%2!=0):ret=(ret*A)%M
>>         A=(A*A)%M
>>         N=N//2
>>     return ret
>
Because the N= N/2 operation in the loop means that the number of loops 
is equal to the number of  bits in N, or the log-base-2 of N.

DaveA


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 18:03:25 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Feb 2010 23:03:25 GMT
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B6DBC4C.4080100@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <037de16f$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:00:28 -0500, John Posner wrote:

> On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> class MyStaticMethod(object):
>>      """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor.""" 
>>      def __init__(self, f):
>>          self.f = f
>>      def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
>>          return self.f
> 
> How about using a function, instead of a class, to implement the
> decorator:

I've had problems with function decorators and doctest in the past. If I 
remember the problem correctly, functools.wraps changing the __module__ 
of the wrapped function, making it look like it came from the functool 
module, and so doctest would not run the tests. But it seems that has 
been fixed in 2.6: I can confirm your version works as expected.

Nevertheless, I think it is a limitation of doctest that it doesn't see 
methods using the descriptor protocol. Even if I could work around my 
immediate issue by using a function decorator (and I don't think I can) 
I'd still want to fix this problem.


> I tried making the class-based implementation work by using
> functools.wraps(), but I couldn't manage it. 

Me neither. I think the problem is that the doctest.DocTestFinder class 
doesn't find descriptor-based methods. It special cases staticmethod, 
classmethod and property.



> Also, doesn't the decorator
> protocol want the class to implement a __call__() method, not a
> __get__() method? Or am I getting hung up (not the first time) at the
> nexus of the descriptor and decorator protocols?

In this case, I'm actually using a descriptor as the decorator.

The descriptor is called at attribute lookup, before the method is 
called. __get__ returns a function, which has a __call__ method, and it 
should all just work.



-- 
Steven


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sat Feb  6 18:30:30 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 23:30:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<loom.20100206T232627-581@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkku2m$uul$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:26:55 +0000, Benjamin Peterson a ?crit?:
> Neil Hodgson <nyamatongwe+thunder <at> gmail.com> writes:
>>    This would damage the usefulness of source control histories (svn
>> annotate) as all of the converted lines would show this recent cosmetic
>> change rather than the previous change which is likely to be a
>> substantive modification.
> 
> That's not completely true given svn diff -x -w.

That's even less true given we aren't ashamed to make other kinds of 
cosmetic changes when desired, even though it also "damages the 
usefulness of source control histories" ;-)




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 18:35:11 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Feb 2010 23:35:11 GMT
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:53:53 +0100, Martin Drautzburg wrote:

> Hello all
> 
> When I create an Object and set its __iter__ method from outside
> 
> s = Sequence #one of my own classes
> s.__iter__ = new.instancemethod(f,s,Sequence)

I'm confused as to why you are aliasing your class before changing it. 
The above just makes s an alternative name for Sequence.

Did you mean this?

s = Sequence() # make an instance of the class


> I get different results, depending on whether I call
> 
> 
> for x in y.__iter__():
>     print x

What's y? Where does it come from? Is y supposed to be an instance of 
Sequence?


> or
> 
> for x in y:
>     print x
> 
> The first case does what I expected, i.e. it iterates over whatever f()
> yields. In the second case nothing is printed. I have the impression
> that it still calls the original __iter__() method (the one defined at
> the class level).

Yes, that's almost certainly what is happening. As an optimization, 
Python bypasses the instance for special methods __NAME__.


> Why is that so?
> How can I replace the __iter__() method so it does what I want.

The best solution is, find another way to do what you want.

The clunky solution is to use delegation to wrap your class, and have the 
outer class re-direct calls to special methods to the instance first.

 
> The reason I want to do such things is I need to implement operations
> similar to what itertools do. However I want my own classes and the
> operations are only similar to itertools, but differ in significant
> details.

I don't understand this.

If you want iterator operations "similar to itertools", why does this 
mean you need to replace anything? Just create your own iterators.

Or use pre-processing and post-processing to get what you want.

Can you show an example of what you would like to happen?



-- 
Steven


From jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 18:41:09 2010
From: jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com (jonny lowe)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:41:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1265336437.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0ec3e55a-90b6-4d49-89b5-6a5721d366b5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2027.1265433340.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c7d4719d-522c-4929-adf3-cc2173c109c1@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 11:10?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-... at yahoo.com.ar>
wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:39:07 -0300, jonny lowe
> <jonny.lowe.12... at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 4, 8:20 pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> >> On 01:56 am, jonny.lowe.12... at gmail.com wrote:
> >> >What I want is to have an easy way tomergeinput.txt and thestdout
> >> >so that output.txt look like:
>
> >> >Enter a number: 42
> >> >You entered 42.
>
> >> >Here, the first 42 is of course from input.txt.
>
> >> It sounds like you might be looking forscript(1)?
>
> > $ script -c "./y < input.txt" output.txt
> > Script started, file is output.txt
> > gimme x:you entered hello
> > Script done, file is output.txt
>
> Try moving the redirection out of the command:
>
> $ script -c ./y output.txt < input.txt
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The result is the same as before. I've tested in fedora11.

-jon


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 18:43:35 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:43:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Last M digits of expression A^N
References: <964f3a2e-2eac-43ee-a3cc-9099e4cc2c36@h9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0c50037a-8cb0-4948-9978-46f4a56fb3da@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 8:14?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have to find out the last M digits of expression.One thing i can do
> is (A**N)%M but my ?A and N are too large (10^100) and M is less than
> 10^5. The other approach ? was ?repeated squaring and taking mod of
> expression. Is there any other way to do this in python more faster
> than log N.

By the way, given that your M is fairly tiny compared with A and N, a
little bit of elementary number theory (e.g., Euler's theorem) could
save you a lot of time here.  For example,

pow(a, n, 10**5)

is equivalent to

pow(a, 5 + (n - 5) % 40000, 10**5)

for any n >= 5.  Not sure if this is the kind of thing you're looking
for.

--
Mark


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Feb  6 18:54:44 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:54:44 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
In-Reply-To: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4B6E0144.8090603@cheimes.de>

Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> The first case does what I expected, i.e. it iterates over whatever f()
> yields. In the second case nothing is printed. I have the impression
> that it still calls the original __iter__() method (the one defined at
> the class level).
>
> Why is that so?
> How can I replace the __iter__() method so it does what I want.

Virtually all __magic__ methods are looked up on the type, not the
instance. So obj.__iter__() translates into type(obj).__iter__(obj).

If you *really* need to overwrite __iter__ on your instance rather than
defining it on your class, you need to proxy the method call:

class MyObject(object):
   def __iter__(self):
      return self.myiter()

obj = MyObject()
obj.myiter = myiter

That should do the trick.

Christian


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 18:58:07 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Feb 2010 23:58:07 GMT
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2050.1265485159.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037dee41$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:39:00 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods
>> which have been decorated.

[...]

> Doctest has to scan the dict, so it does not see the attribute-lookup
> result.

Ahaha, now we're getting somewhere. If I do this:

>>> import inspect
>>> import test_doctests
>>> method3 = test_doctests.Test.__dict__['method3']
>>> inspect.isfunction(method3)
False
>>> inspect.ismethod(method3)
False

But:

>>> inspect.ismethoddescriptor(method3)
True

which is what I want to see. Presumably doctest.DocTestFinder needs a 
patch to call methoddescriptor's __get__ method.

(BTW, classmethod, staticmethod and property are all special-cased by 
DocTestFinder.)



-- 
Steven


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 19:05:15 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 16:05:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your reply.
So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
expressions cannot be enumerated. However, some of them can be
enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.

Zhuo

On Feb 6, 5:23?pm, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article
> <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e552... at r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> ?"hzh... at gmail.com" <hzh... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
> > Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
> > output all the matches. For example, given ?[1|2|3]{2}? as the regular
> > expression, the program should output all 9 matches, i.e., "11 12 13
> > 21 22 23 31 32 33".
>
> > Is there any well-written routine in Python or third-party program to
> > do this? If there isn't, could somebody make some suggestions on how
> > to write it myself?
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Zhuo
>
> Please enumerate all the strings which match ".*". ?Use additional sheets
> of paper if needed.



From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb  6 19:07:49 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:07:49 +0100
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
Message-ID: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:

A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
an ssh to a windows host

The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.

Instead of controlling a shell the user would directly have access to
stdin/stdout/stderr of another python script.


Another option would of course be to install a non python sshd for windows.

The only ssh server for windows, that I know is however a little heavy
as it is openssh under cygwin (and I only used it on XP hosts.)

I'm still not sure, whether python as sshd is a good choice or whether
any other sshd would be better.

bye


N














From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb  6 19:24:33 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:24:33 +0100
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> 
>> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>>
>> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with
>> CTRL-C
>>
>> The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under
>> Windows)
>>
>> If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
>> It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
>> function.
> 
> Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
> On previous versions you may use this:
> 
> class MyXMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer):
> 
>     ... your methods ...
> 
>     if not hasattr(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, 'shutdown'):
> 
>         # pre 2.6
>         quit = False
> 
>         def serve_forever(self):
>             while not self.quit:
>                 self.handle_request()
> 
>         def shutdown(self):
>             self.quit = True
> 
>         def server_bind(self):
>             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
>             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)
> 

Overloading  server_bind() with your version solved my problem.

thanks again

N


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 19:26:36 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 00:26:36 GMT
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:05:15 -0800, hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for your reply.
> So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
> expressions cannot be enumerated. However, some of them can be
> enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.

How do you expect to tell the ones that can be enumerated apart from 
those that can't be?

Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language. What 
you are asking for is the same as saying:

"Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that is 
usable as valid input for a given program?"

This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can solve 
one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the Halting 
Problem before you spend too much time on this.

(Note, however, it isn't necessary to solve the Halting Problem for *all* 
cases in order to have a useful Endless Loop Detector program.)

Why do you think you need this? Seems to me you're starting on an 
extraordinarily difficult job. I hope the benefit is equally 
extraordinary.


[Aside: Python regexes aren't Turing Complete. I'm not sure about Perl 
regexes. Either way, this might actually be less difficult than the 
Halting Problem, as in "amazingly difficult" rather than "impossible".]


-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sat Feb  6 19:48:22 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:48:22 +0100
Subject: xmlrcp - how to marshall objects
In-Reply-To: <1265400942.3301.14.camel@linux-m3mt>
References: <4B6C4150.8050705@sequans.com> <4B6C5444.4090205@sequans.com>
	<1265400942.3301.14.camel@linux-m3mt>
Message-ID: <4B6E0DD6.1000908@sequans.com>

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 18:24 +0100, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>     
>>> Deos anyone knows where to find an code sample describing how to 
>>> implement the interface to marshall one object into XMLRPC compliant 
>>> structures ?
>>> I googled without any success, and what google does not find does not 
>>> exist.
>>> Let say I have this very simple class:
>>> class Point:
>>>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>>>    self.x = x
>>>    self.y = y
>>> I've looked into xmlrpc code, I see  2 options:
>>> 1/ override the Marshaller class of client and server
>>> 2/ looks like the lib is supporting a WRAPPER list system, it uses to 
>>> Marshall Datetime & Binary object. Can it be possible to add its own 
>>> class (could require to emplement the 'encode' method)
>>> I sense I will spend much more time than required unless someone is 
>>> pointing me in the right direction.
>>>       
>> I realized I gave a poor example, actually the Point object is marshable 
>> (marshallable ? like to invent new words), xmlrpc will try to marshall 
>> using __dict__ if possible.
>> import os
>> class Point:
>>    def __init__(self, x, y):
>>    self.x = x
>>    self.y = y
>>    self.notMarshallable = os
>>     
>
> This example doesn't make any sense.  Why would you set a variable equal
> to an important module in a class named Point?
>
> What is it you are actually trying to accomplish?  If you are trying to
> create an object publishing environment then maybe something like -
>
> rpc = xmlrpclib.loads(payload, use_datetime=True)
> method = rpc[1].split('.')
> classname   = method[0]
> methodname = method[1]
> parameters  = rpc[0]
> classclass = eval(classname)
> handler = classclass()
> call = getattr(handler, method_name)
> result = apply(call, parameters)
> result = xmlrpclib.dumps(tuple([result]), methodresponse=True)
>
> Obviously add copious amounts of exception handling and a security
> model.
>   

I just took the first non marshallable object that came to my mind. So 
yes that makes no sense but it was an example.

I'll try to sitck to what I'm really trying to do.

I have 2 classes, defined on server side

class Pool:
    def foo():
       return 42

class Stream:
    def __init__(self, pool):
       """@param pool: the pool the stream belongs so."""
       self._pool = pool


I won't need any more detail I think for my example.

Now If I want to return a stream, sending it to the client, I can't 
because xmlrpclib won't be able to marshall _pool.
What I need is the sever being able to marshall a Stream.

I would like to overide the marshall method of that stream, so that 
instead of raising an error because self._pool is not marshallable, it 
sends an int instead identifying the pool on the server side.

class Pool:
    instances = {}

when marshalling a stream:
    id = some_unique_generated_int()
    Pool.instances[id] = self._pool
    self._pool = id # an int will be gracefully marshalled by the defaut 
marshaller
    # call here the default marshaller

Then, when unmarshalling, the server can reassign the _pool reference 
using the id provided by the client.

I hope I am being clear.

JM
   



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 19:51:19 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 00:51:19 GMT
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2050.1265485159.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <037dfaba$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:39:00 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 2/6/2010 6:48 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods
>> which have been decorated [by method descriptors].

[...]

>> This looks like  bug to me. Have I missed anything?
> 
> I would call it a limitation as I do not see the doc as promising
> otherwise. I believe doctest predates the descripter protocol, at least
> in its current form, so it may not be completely descriptor-aware. You
> certainly could file a feature request for improved recognition and
> subsequent calling of __get__. An initial patch would improve chances of
> action.

I have found an existing report for this issue:

http://bugs.python.org/issue4037

The original poster's suggested fix was on the right track, but not 
complete. I've added a patch which works according to my tests.

Since this report is currently unassigned, is there a protocol for 
raising its profile and having somebody check my patch for inclusion? 
Should I just send an email to python-dev?


-- 
Steven



From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 19:51:19 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:51:19 +0100
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:05:15 -0800, hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for your reply.
>> So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
>> expressions cannot be enumerated. However, some of them can be
>> enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.
> 
> How do you expect to tell the ones that can be enumerated apart from 
> those that can't be?
> 
> Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language. What 
> you are asking for is the same as saying:
> 
> "Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that is 
> usable as valid input for a given program?"
> 
> This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can solve 
> one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the Halting 
> Problem before you spend too much time on this.

Hm, well, text editors /regularly/ do repeated regular expression searches, 
producing match after match after match, on request.

To use that /expression/, it seems that Theory is yet again up against Hard Reality.

In such a contest where something doesn't quite /match/, is the Map, the 
Terrain, or perhaps the Interpretation of how the Map applies to Terrain, at fault?


> (Note, however, it isn't necessary to solve the Halting Problem for *all* 
> cases in order to have a useful Endless Loop Detector program.)
> 
> Why do you think you need this? Seems to me you're starting on an 
> extraordinarily difficult job. I hope the benefit is equally 
> extraordinary.

Depending on the application there may be more efficient ways than applying a 
general purpose regexp matcher.

Don't know about modern *nix but in the old days there were different greps for 
different purposes, egrep, fgrep, whatever.

Aside: the only article by Niklaus Wirth that I can remember reading was about 
how to transform algorithms to more efficient ones by exploiting the invariants, 
and one of his examples was simple text searching, where you can advance the 
pattern a number of characters depending on the current non-matching character.


> [Aside: Python regexes aren't Turing Complete. I'm not sure about Perl 
> regexes. Either way, this might actually be less difficult than the 
> Halting Problem, as in "amazingly difficult" rather than "impossible".]


Cheers,

- Alf


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Feb  6 19:52:48 2010
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (duncan smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:52:48 +0000
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
Message-ID: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>

Hello,
       I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering 
information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python 
earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence 
on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest 
positive float I'm using,


import platform
if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
     TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
else:
     TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38


where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,


 >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
1.1754943508222875e-38
 >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
2.2250738585072014e-308
 >>>


I'm not 100% sure how reliable this will be across platforms.  Any ideas 
about the cleanest, reliable way of uncovering this type of information? 
  (I can always invoke numpy, or use Python 2.6, on my home machine and 
hardcode the retrieved values, but I need the code to run on 2.5 without 
3rd part dependencies.)  Cheers.

Duncan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb  6 19:54:54 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:54:54 -0500
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <4b6c2095$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6c2095$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6E0F5E.10503@holdenweb.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> apeach a ?crit :
>> I love intuitive type recognition.
>>
>> no need to 'DIM everything AS Integer' etc.!
>>
> 
> not to mention the ever hilarious (that is, when you don't have to
> maintain it) typical Java idiom:
> 
>    EveryThing theEveryThing = new EveryThing();
> 
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=42242

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sat Feb  6 20:15:48 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:15:48 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B6E1444.9060001@sequans.com>

News123 wrote:
> Hi JM,
>
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> import socket
>>
>> # server
>> server = SimpleXMLRPCServer((socket.gethostname(), 5000),
>> logRequests=False, allow_none=True)
>>
>>
>> # client
>> xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://%s.yourdomain.com:%s" %
>> (socket.gethostname(), 5000))
>>     
>
>
> Well This was exactly my question.
> for virtual web servers I cannot just use the IP-address.
> some XMLRPC servers do need the histname within the HTTP-POST request.
>
>   
a valid IP address would make it
> if I just replaced the hostname with the IP addres, then certain servers
> would not be accessable.
>
> I had to use the IP-address for connecteing
why not using the host names?
> , but to pass the hostname in
> the HTTP-POST request.
>
> I wondered how to convince puthon's SimpleXMLRPCServer (or any other
> standard python xmlrpc server), such, that I can obtain above mentioned
> goal.
>
>
> bye
>
> N
>   
I'm puzzled.
Unless my english is failing me, everything would be solved using 
hostnames if I follow you. Why don't you do that ?
I am no network/IP guru, but it sounds very weird to have requests 
rejected when using IP addresses. Are you sure your host names are 
resolved with the same IPM address you are using ?


JM


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 20:17:34 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 06:47:34 +0530
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002061717x3ac4cd8lacada48814ef48e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:22 AM, duncan smith
<buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk>wrote:

> Hello,
>      I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering information
> about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python earlier than 2.6
> (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence on 3rd party modules
> just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest positive float I'm using,
>
>
> import platform
> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>    TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
> else:
>    TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>

The above code is executed on OSX (snow leopard - 64 bit) without any
issue.  Your implementation seems fine to me.

>
>
> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>
>
> >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
> 1.1754943508222875e-38
> >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
> 2.2250738585072014e-308
> >>>
>
>
> I'm not 100% sure how reliable this will be across platforms.  Any ideas
> about the cleanest, reliable way of uncovering this type of information?  (I
> can always invoke numpy, or use Python 2.6, on my home machine and hardcode
> the retrieved values, but I need the code to run on 2.5 without 3rd part
> dependencies.)  Cheers.
>
> Duncan
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb  6 20:21:15 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:21:15 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<c2ea0f18-bf64-4c1f-892f-aa0687460969@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6c2095$0$22370$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2065.1265504156.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xaavlet84.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:
>>    EveryThing theEveryThing = new EveryThing();
> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=42242

Pretty cool!  I see your blog post criticizing Java's lack of type
inference, and then immediately adjacent to the post there's a banner ad
for a book called "Programming in Scala".  I think I am getting a mixed
message ;-)


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sat Feb  6 20:23:16 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:23:16 -0500
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002061723k720e10e7led07eb6abd3962df@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:52 PM, duncan smith
<buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Hello,
> ? ? ?I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering information
> about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python earlier than 2.6
> (just 2.5 actually). ?I don't want to add a dependence on 3rd party modules
> just for this purpose. ?e.g. For the smallest positive float I'm using,
>
>
> import platform
> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
> ? ?TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
> else:
> ? ?TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>
>
> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>
>
>>>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
> 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>>>
>
>
> I'm not 100% sure how reliable this will be across platforms. ?Any ideas
> about the cleanest, reliable way of uncovering this type of information? ?(I
> can always invoke numpy, or use Python 2.6, on my home machine and hardcode
> the retrieved values, but I need the code to run on 2.5 without 3rd part
> dependencies.) ?Cheers.
>
> Duncan

>>> import platform
>>> platform.architecture()
('32bit', '')
>>> tiny = 2.22e-308
>>> tiny
2.2200000000000001e-308

float32 vs. float64 has nothing to do with a 32-bit vs. a 64-bit
platform. It's single precision floating-point (C float) vs.
double-precision floating point (C double). It's used in numpy because
numpy optimizes everything like crazy. Python always uses doubles.
>>> import numpy
>>> numpy.double
<type 'numpy.float64'>



> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 20:28:47 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 01:28:47 GMT
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:51:19 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language.
>> What you are asking for is the same as saying:
>> 
>> "Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that
>> is usable as valid input for a given program?"
>> 
>> This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can solve
>> one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the Halting
>> Problem before you spend too much time on this.
> 
> Hm, well, text editors /regularly/ do repeated regular expression
> searches, producing match after match after match, on request.

I think you have completely misunderstood what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that you can't *run* a regular expression against text and 
generate output. That truly would be a stupid thing to say, because I 
clearly can do this:

>>> import re
>>> mo = re.search("p.rr.t", 
... "Some text containing parrots as well as other things")
>>> mo.group()
'parrot'

As you point out, it's not hard to embed a regex interpreter inside a 
text editor or other application, or to call an external library.

What is difficult, and potentially impossible, is to take an arbitrary 
regular expression such as "p.rr.t" (the program in the regex language) 
and generate every possible data ("parrot", "pbrrat", ...) that would 
give a match when applied to that regular expression.

Now, in this case, my example is very simple, and it would be easy to 
enumerate every possible data: there's only 65025 of them, limiting to 
the extended ASCII range excluding NUL (1-255). But for an arbitrary 
regex, it won't be that easy. Often it will be unbounded: the example of 
enumerating every string that matches .* has already been given.

The second problem is, generating the data which gives the output you 
want is potentially very, very, difficult, potentially as difficult as 
finding collisions in cryptographic hash functions:

"Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs 
that give the hexadecimal result 
0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."

This too is unbounded, but you'll have your work cut out just to find 
*one* match, let alone an infinite number of them.

(In this specific example, your best bet is to try a crib: knowing what 
newsgroup this is, and knowing what I've written in the past, the message 
is predictable for being totally unexpected. And yes, that's a hint. A 
shiny penny for the first person to guess what it is.)

I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which 
regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy, 
the enumeration will often be infinite. 


-- 
Steven


From bartc at freeuk.com  Sat Feb  6 20:34:14 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:34:14 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>

"Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com> wrote in message 
news:m28wb6ypfs.fsf at googlemail.com...
> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:
>
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
>>> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
>>> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>>>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a direct
>>>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>> two functions.
>>>>>
>>>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight 
>>>>> functions?
>>>>>
>>>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>>>
>>> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
>>> underline=true) to be split into:
>>>
>>> drawtext(s)
>>> drawtextb(s)
>>> drawtexti(s)
>>> drawtextu(s)
>>> drawtextbi(s)
>>> drawtextbu(s)
>>> drawtextiu(s)
>>> drawtextbiu(s)
>>
>> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
>> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
>> separate functions.
>
> Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.

I've just noticed that 'literal' part. But I think I still disagree.

For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a 
light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should have 
two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it permanently 
off, and just walk into the right one.

-- 
Bartc




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sat Feb  6 20:36:34 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:36:34 +0100
Subject: Calendar GUI
In-Reply-To: <4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>	<1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6E1922.4030404@sequans.com>

Michael Torrie wrote:
> Gabriel wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggioli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to help
>>> them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd like to add
>>> is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival dates and
>>> staying time, with potentially some other info through some double-click
>>> action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is there some open-source
>>> calendar program you guys could recommend that I could plug into? It has to
>>> be run locally, as the internet isn't so reliable down here, but other than
>>> that something simple and clean is ideal.
>>>       
>> I wrote a gtk gui for google calendar.
>>
>> Maybe you can adapt it to your needs.
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/googlecalendar-gtk/
>>     
>
> Would this work without an internet connection?  The original poster
> stated that internet isn't so reliable, hence the need for a local solution.
>
>   
How about zimbra ?
http://www.zimbra.com/products/calendar-collaboration.html

Ok, that's heavy stuff, but it's free, open source and widely used.

JM



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb  6 20:48:12 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:48:12 +0000
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B6E1BDC.5090002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:05:15 -0800, hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>> So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
>>> expressions cannot be enumerated. However, some of them can be
>>> enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.
>>
>> How do you expect to tell the ones that can be enumerated apart from 
>> those that can't be?
>>
>> Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language. 
>> What you are asking for is the same as saying:
>>
>> "Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that 
>> is usable as valid input for a given program?"
>>
>> This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can 
>> solve one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the 
>> Halting Problem before you spend too much time on this.
> 
> Hm, well, text editors /regularly/ do repeated regular expression 
> searches, producing match after match after match, on request.
> 
[snip]
I'm not sure you understood what the OP was requesting: a way of
generating the strings which would match a given regex.


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Feb  6 20:55:48 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:55:48 +0100
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <4B6E1DA4.2060908@cheimes.de>

duncan smith wrote:
> Hello,
>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering 
> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python 
> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence 
> on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest 
> positive float I'm using,
> 
> 
> import platform
> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>      TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
> else:
>      TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
> 
> 
> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
> 
> 
>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
> 2.2250738585072014e-308

You are confusing a 32 / 64bit build with 32 / 64bit floats. Python's
float type is build upon C's double precision float type on both 32 and
64 bit builds. The simple precision 32bit float type isn't used. The
DBL_MIN and DBL_MAX values are equal on all platforms that have full
IEEE 754 float point support. The radix may be different, though.

Christian


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 20:57:24 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 01:57:24 GMT
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <037e0a36$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:34:14 +0000, bartc wrote:

> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a
> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should
> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it
> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.

I don't think you can apply real-world analogies to software in that way. 
They're too different.

Think of the objections to having two rooms, one permanently lit up, the 
other permanently not:

(1) Having two rooms is expensive and wasteful of physical space, which 
is in short supply.

(2) You typically use rooms for storing things (furniture and smaller 
objects), having two rooms mean you would need to clone every object 
inside it and somehow keep them in perfect synchronisation.

(3) the light that is always on will use electricity 24 hours a day, 
regardless of whether you are inside it or not.

But none of those objections apply to functions:

(1) Functions are cheap and live in memory, which is not in short supply 
unless you're programming for an embedded device.

(1a) Even if you are programming in a device that is short of memory, the 
overhead of a second function is minimal. There's little difference 
between:

def func(flag):
    if flag:
        blockA
    else:
        blockB


and


def funcA():
    blockA

def funcB():
    blockB


for any non-trivial code blocks, particularly if any common code is 
factored out into another function which you call.

(2) Functions aren't typically used for storage, and when they need 
external data, it is easy to have them access a common data store.

(3) Functions don't use CPU cycles just by existing.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 21:09:53 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 02:09:53 GMT
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <037e0d22$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:52:48 +0000, duncan smith wrote:

> Hello,
>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering
> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python
> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence
> on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest
> positive float I'm using,

Assuming that your architecture is based on binary floats:

>>> x = 1.0/2
>>> while 0.0 + x != 0.0:
...     smallest = x
...     x /= 2.0
...
>>> smallest
4.9406564584124654e-324

which is the smallest number that can be distinguished from zero on my 
system.

If you're running on some weird platform with non-binary floats (perhaps 
a Russian ternary mainframe, or an old supercomputer with decimal floats) 
then you're on your own.

I calculated this using Python 2.5. In 2.6, I see this:

>>> sys.float_info
sys.floatinfo(max=1.7976931348623157e+308, max_exp=1024, max_10_exp=308, 
min=2.2250738585072014e-308, min_exp=-1021, min_10_exp=-307, dig=15, 
mant_dig=53, epsilon=2.2204460492503131e-16, radix=2, rounds=1)

So there's obviously a difference between how I calculate the smallest 
number and what Python thinks. The reason for this is left as an exercise.



-- 
Steven


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Feb  6 21:44:27 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 02:44:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <hkl9eb$4cf$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-06, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>> I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
>> Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
>> output all the matches.
[..]

> Please enumerate all the strings which match ".*".  Use additional sheets 
> of paper if needed.

And be sure to show your work.

-- 
Grant



From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 21:53:49 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:51:19 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> Regular expressions are programs in a "regex" programming language.
>>> What you are asking for is the same as saying:
>>>
>>> "Is there a program that can enumerate every possible set of data that
>>> is usable as valid input for a given program?"
>>>
>>> This, in turn, is equivalent to the Halting Problem -- if you can solve
>>> one, you can solve the other. You might like to google on the Halting
>>> Problem before you spend too much time on this.
>> Hm, well, text editors /regularly/ do repeated regular expression
>> searches, producing match after match after match, on request.
> 
> I think you have completely misunderstood what I'm saying.

Yes.


> I'm not saying that you can't *run* a regular expression against text and 
> generate output. That truly would be a stupid thing to say, because I 
> clearly can do this:
> 
>>>> import re
>>>> mo = re.search("p.rr.t", 
> ... "Some text containing parrots as well as other things")
>>>> mo.group()
> 'parrot'
> 
> As you point out, it's not hard to embed a regex interpreter inside a 
> text editor or other application, or to call an external library.
> 
> What is difficult, and potentially impossible, is to take an arbitrary 
> regular expression such as "p.rr.t" (the program in the regex language) 
> and generate every possible data ("parrot", "pbrrat", ...) that would 
> give a match when applied to that regular expression.

Hm, that's not difficult to do, it's just like counting, but it's rather 
meaningless since either the output is trivial or it's in general exponential or 
infinite.

So it seems we both misunderstood the problem.

I didn't read the top level article until now, and reading it, I can't make 
sense of it.

It sounds like some kind of homework problem, but without the constraints that 
surely would be there in a homework problem.


> Now, in this case, my example is very simple, and it would be easy to 
> enumerate every possible data: there's only 65025 of them, limiting to 
> the extended ASCII range excluding NUL (1-255). But for an arbitrary 
> regex, it won't be that easy. Often it will be unbounded: the example of 
> enumerating every string that matches .* has already been given.
> 
> The second problem is, generating the data which gives the output you 
> want is potentially very, very, difficult, potentially as difficult as 
> finding collisions in cryptographic hash functions:
> 
> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs 
> that give the hexadecimal result 
> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."

I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(


[snip]

> I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which 
> regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy, 
> the enumeration will often be infinite.

I agree about the (implied) meaningless, exponential/infinite output, which 
means that possibly that's not what the OP meant, but disagree about the 
reasoning about "no way": really, regular expressions are /very/ limited so it's 
not hard to compute up front the number of strings it can generate from some 
given character set, in time linear in the length of the regexp.

Essentially, any regexp that includes '+' or '*' (directly or via e.g. notation 
that denotes "digit sequence") yields an infinite number of strings.

And otherwise the regexp is of the form ABCDE..., where A, B, C etc are parts 
that each can generate a certain finite number of strings; multiplying these 
numbers gives the total number of strings that the regexp can generate.


Cheers,

- Alf


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Feb  6 22:02:05 2010
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (duncan smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:02:05 +0000
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> duncan smith wrote:
>> Hello,
>>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering 
>> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python 
>> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a dependence 
>> on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the smallest 
>> positive float I'm using,
>>
>>
>> import platform
>> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>>      TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
>> else:
>>      TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>
>>
>> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>>
>>
>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
>> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
>> 2.2250738585072014e-308
> 
> You are confusing a 32 / 64bit build with 32 / 64bit floats. Python's
> float type is build upon C's double precision float type on both 32 and
> 64 bit builds. The simple precision 32bit float type isn't used. The
> DBL_MIN and DBL_MAX values are equal on all platforms that have full
> IEEE 754 float point support. The radix may be different, though.
> 
> Christian

OK, this is the sort of confusion I suspected.  I wasn't thinking 
straight.  The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of 
2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a 
simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on 
Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32 
server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an 
exception.  Thanks.

Duncan


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 22:04:03 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:04:03 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <037e0a36$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>	<qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<037e0a36$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hklaj7$71f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:34:14 +0000, bartc wrote:
> 
>> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a
>> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should
>> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it
>> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.
> 
> I don't think you can apply real-world analogies to software in that way. 
> They're too different.
> 
> Think of the objections to having two rooms, one permanently lit up, the 
> other permanently not:
> 
> (1) Having two rooms is expensive and wasteful of physical space, which 
> is in short supply.
> 
> (2) You typically use rooms for storing things (furniture and smaller 
> objects), having two rooms mean you would need to clone every object 
> inside it and somehow keep them in perfect synchronisation.
> 
> (3) the light that is always on will use electricity 24 hours a day, 
> regardless of whether you are inside it or not.
> 
> But none of those objections apply to functions:
> 
> (1) Functions are cheap and live in memory, which is not in short supply 
> unless you're programming for an embedded device.
> 
> (1a) Even if you are programming in a device that is short of memory, the 
> overhead of a second function is minimal. There's little difference 
> between:
> 
> def func(flag):
>     if flag:
>         blockA
>     else:
>         blockB
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> def funcA():
>     blockA
> 
> def funcB():
>     blockB
> 
> 
> for any non-trivial code blocks, particularly if any common code is 
> factored out into another function which you call.
> 
> (2) Functions aren't typically used for storage, and when they need 
> external data, it is easy to have them access a common data store.
> 
> (3) Functions don't use CPU cycles just by existing.

I agree with your reasoning :-), but it's not either/or.

Consider, sometimes one wants to do

   switch.off()

and sometimes one wants to do

   original_switch_state = switch.state()
   switch.off()
   # ... Do things that are best done in utter darkness.
   switch.set_state( original_switch_state )

E.g. the "switch" might be the enabled/disabled state of some GUI widget.

So IMHO it depends.

Sometimes one wants both kinds of "protocols".



Cheers,

- Alf


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 22:15:51 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:15:51 -0500
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
In-Reply-To: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <16651e81002061915v72cbc134he6c3c46f6add226c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:
>
> A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
> an ssh to a windows host
>
> The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.

The Twisted library has an sshd implementation, called conch.  Here an
article with a simple python sshd built with twisted:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html

-- 
Jerry


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 23:16:09 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:16:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net> 
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>


>
> So it seems we both misunderstood the problem.
>
> I didn't read the top level article until now, and reading it, I can't make
> sense of it.
>

Seems that you should read the whole thing before making a post, or
else you cannot know what we are talking about.
Steven doesn't misunderstand me. We are talking about what I need, and
he tries to help.



>
> > "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
> > that give the hexadecimal result
> > 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>
> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
>
> [snip]
>

This is a hash collision problem. Nobody has proved that SHA-256 is
collision free, even not in the random oracle model, because people
always suppose that a random oracle exists, and make hash function its
substitution. That means it may be broken someday. And any provable
security based on random oracle model is not secure.


> > I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which
> > regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy,
> > the enumeration will often be infinite.

It is hard to tell in advance. However, we can add some timing limit
or counting limit, to make it an algorithm, which can halt. For
example, whenever the program outputs more than 1000000 expressions
that match the input regex, we can halt because that exceeds our
limit. But surely this is not efficient because of the post-decision.



>
> Essentially, any regexp that includes '+' or '*' (directly or via e.g. notation
> that denotes "digit sequence") yields an infinite number of strings.

Infinity is really relative, not absolute. It is relative to the
computing speed. For example, the regex '^[0|1]{2048}$' is rather
simple and doesn't contain '+' or '$', but trying to output all
expressions that match it has a complexity of 2^2048. If we can do
that, then we can break RSA-2048.
We must face the reality .

Zhuo



From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Feb  6 23:19:20 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:19:20 +0000
Subject: WCK and PIL
References: <1fbe5e4b-2179-410b-9f76-9d65a7a08dce@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.04.19.19.109000@nowhere.com>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:05:53 -0800, darnzen wrote:

> I've written an app using the wck library (widget construction kit,
> see http://www.effbot.org), in addition to the wckGraph module. What
> I'd like to do, is take the output of one of my windows (happens to be
> a graph), and save it as a *.png or *.gif. I was planning on using the
> PIL for this. I'd like to use the code I have as is, without re-
> writing all the graphic calls to use PIL methods.
> 
> WCK uses its own "pixmap" class for storing images in memory. I can't
> find any documentation or class reference for pixmap and what I find
> in the source is confusing.

A WCK pixmap is a "draw object" whose underlying drawable is a pixmap
(i.e. a Tk pixmap, which is the platform's native "chunk of video memory"
pixmap type) rather than a window.

>From the source code, WCK doesn't appear to offer any way to retrieve the
pixel data (i.e. there's no way to do the opposite of draw.paste()).



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb  6 23:31:36 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 04:31:36 GMT
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <00f7c75e$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:02:05 +0000, duncan smith wrote:

> The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
> exception.  Thanks.

I'm trying to think of what sort of experiment would be able to measure 
temperatures accurate to less than 3e-308 Kelvin, and my brain boiled.

Surely 1e-100 would be close enough to zero as to make no practical 
difference? Or even 1e-30? Whatever you're simulating surely isn't going 
to require 300+ decimal points of accuracy.

I must admit I'm not really familiar with simulated annealing, so I could 
be completely out of line, but my copy of "Numerical Recipes ..." by 
Press et al has an example, and they take the temperature down to about 
1e-6 before halting. Even a trillion times lower that that is 1e-15.


-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Feb  6 23:33:12 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:33:12 +0000
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.04.33.11.875000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:09:31 -0800, Jim wrote:

> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
> syntax irregularities.
> 
> I am familiar with Beautiful Soup (use it all the time) but it is
> intended to cope with bad syntax.  I just tried feeding
> HTMLParser.HTMLParser some HTML containing '<p>a<b>b</p></b>' and it
> didn't complain.

HTMLParser is a tokeniser, not a parser. It treats the data as a
stream of tokens (tags, entities, PCDATA, etc); it doesn't know anything
about the HTML DTD. For all it knows, the above example could be perfectly
valid (the "b" element might allow both its start and end tags to be
omitted).

Does the validation need to be done in Python? If not, you can use
"nsgmls" to validate any SGML document for which you have a DTD. OpenSP
includes nsgmls along with the various HTML DTDs.



From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb  6 23:38:38 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:38:38 +0100
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hklg4i$dlq$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* hzhuo1 at gmail.com:
>> So it seems we both misunderstood the problem.
>>
>> I didn't read the top level article until now, and reading it, I can't make
>> sense of it.
>>
> 
> [1] Seems that you should read the whole thing before making a post, or
> else you cannot know what we are talking about.
> Steven doesn't misunderstand me. We are talking about what I need, and
> he tries to help.

If you were not misunderstood then you've posted a question for which there's no 
practical solution.


>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
>>
>> [snip]
>>
> 
> This is a hash collision problem. Nobody has proved that SHA-256 is
> collision free, even not in the random oracle model, because people
> always suppose that a random oracle exists, and make hash function its
> substitution. That means it may be broken someday. And any provable
> security based on random oracle model is not secure.

Stephen's little challenge wasn't about breaking SHA-256 but about guessing his 
secret phrase, given his clues.


>>> I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which
>>> regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy,
>>> the enumeration will often be infinite.
> 
> It is hard to tell in advance.

No, it's trivial.


> [2] However, we can add some timing limit
> or counting limit, to make it an algorithm, which can halt. For
> example, whenever the program outputs more than 1000000 expressions
> that match the input regex, we can halt because that exceeds our
> limit. But surely this is not efficient because of the post-decision.

You don't need to wait for that output to complete. You can calculate the number 
of strings up front. Like it appears that you do below:


>> Essentially, any regexp that includes '+' or '*' (directly or via e.g. notation
>> that denotes "digit sequence") yields an infinite number of strings.
> 
> Infinity is really relative, not absolute. It is relative to the
> computing speed. For example, the regex '^[0|1]{2048}$' is rather
> simple and doesn't contain '+' or '$', but trying to output all
> expressions that match it has a complexity of 2^2048. If we can do
> that, then we can break RSA-2048.
> We must face the reality .

Here it seems that you have no problem calculating number of combinations, yet 
above, at the paragraph marked [2], you talk about waiting for a million strings 
to be output before seeing that it's too much, and earlier, at the paragraph 
marked [1], you maintain that your original question about generating all such 
strings (completely impractical) was what you wanted help with?

I'm sorry but I can't make sense of this; it appears to be meaningless.

Perhaps if you tried to clarify the requirements a bit.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From schifschaf at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 23:49:06 2010
From: schifschaf at gmail.com (Schif Schaf)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:49:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
Message-ID: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I've got some text that looks like this:


    Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur
    adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor
    incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua.

and I want to make it look like this:


    Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur
    adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor
    incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.

(brackets replaced by braces). I can do that with Perl pretty easily:

~~~~
for (<>) {
    s/\[(.+?)\]/\{$1\}/g;
    print;
}
~~~~

but am not able to figure out how to do it with Python. I start out
trying something like:

~~~~
import re, sys
withbracks = re.compile(r'\[(.+?)\]')
for line in sys.stdin:
    mat = withbracks.search(line)
    if mat:
        # Well, this line has at least one.
        # Should be able to use withbracks.sub()
        # and mat.group() maybe ... ?
        line = withbracks.sub('{' + mat.group(0) + '}', line)
        # No, that's not working right.

    sys.stdout.write(line)
~~~~

but then am not sure where to go with that.

How would you do it?

Thanks.


From schifschaf at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 00:04:44 2010
From: schifschaf at gmail.com (Schif Schaf)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:04:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1951.1265377802.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1500989d-b1d9-4734-ac03-5d7b9d531aeb@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 8:49?am, Roald de Vries <r... at roalddevries.nl> wrote:

> My reasoning: I needed a language more powerful than bash, but more ?
> portable and faster to develop (at least small scripts) than C/C++. So ?
> I needed a scripting language. Python, Ruby, Perl, Tcl, ...?
>
> Python seems to be the language with the most libraries available,

I like Python a lot. That said, it looks like Perl's CPAN currently
has approximately double the number of packages in the Cheeseshop.

I'm guessing the CPAN is still growing, but I don't know how fast it
is growing compared to the Cheeseshop.

I won't venture a guess as to which has a higher percentage of older
unmaintained packages.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Feb  7 00:09:40 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:09:40 +0000
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.05.09.39.31000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 00:26:36 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>> So there isn't such a routine just because some of the regular
>> expressions cannot be enumerated.

No. There isn't a routine because no-one has yet felt any need to write
one.

>> However, some of them can be
>> enumerated. I guess I have to write a function myself.
> 
> How do you expect to tell the ones that can be enumerated apart from 
> those that can't be?

The ones which use the '+', '*' and '{m,}' operators match an infinite
number of strings; the rest can only match a finite number (assuming POSIX
REs; Python also has +? and *?).

["Enumerate" isn't the correct word here. You can *enumerate* an
infinite set, in the sense that you could write a Python generator for
which any member will eventually be generated.]

The obvious implementation is to construct the NFA then "run" it.

If you know that the RE can only match finite strings (i.e. the graph is
acyclic), then you can enumerate them using depth-first traversal. If it
can match infinite strings (i.e. if there are any cycles in the graph),
then you would need to use either breadth-first traversal or
incrementally-bounded depth-first traversal.

> [Aside: Python regexes aren't Turing Complete. I'm not sure about Perl 
> regexes. Either way, this might actually be less difficult than the 
> Halting Problem, as in "amazingly difficult" rather than "impossible".]

"Regular expressions" aren't Turing complete; this is implicit in the
definition of "regular". The Chomsky hierarchy has four levels, with
higher levels require a more capable system to decide whether a string is
a member of the language defined by the grammar:

	grammar			decidable by

	regular			finite automaton
	context-free		pushdown automaton[1]
	context-sensitive	linear-bounded automaton[2]
	recursively-enumerable	Turing machine

However, any "regular expression" syntax which allows backreferences
(including the POSIX specification) isn't actually "regular" in the formal
sense (as it requires an infinite number of states), but context-free.

[1] pushdown automaton = finite automaton with a stack

[2] linear-bounded automaton = Turing machine, except that it's "tape" is
finite and proportional to the size of the input.

	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy



From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 00:19:13 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 06:19:13 +0100
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Schif Schaf:
> Hi,
> 
> I've got some text that looks like this:
> 
> 
>     Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur
>     adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor
>     incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua.
> 
> and I want to make it look like this:
> 
> 
>     Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur
>     adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor
>     incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.
> 
> (brackets replaced by braces). I can do that with Perl pretty easily:
> 
> ~~~~
> for (<>) {
>     s/\[(.+?)\]/\{$1\}/g;
>     print;
> }
> ~~~~
> 
> but am not able to figure out how to do it with Python. I start out
> trying something like:
> 
> ~~~~
> import re, sys
> withbracks = re.compile(r'\[(.+?)\]')
> for line in sys.stdin:
>     mat = withbracks.search(line)
>     if mat:
>         # Well, this line has at least one.
>         # Should be able to use withbracks.sub()
>         # and mat.group() maybe ... ?
>         line = withbracks.sub('{' + mat.group(0) + '}', line)
>         # No, that's not working right.
> 
>     sys.stdout.write(line)
> ~~~~
> 
> but then am not sure where to go with that.
> 
> How would you do it?

I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look in the 
documentation, (2) check that it worked.


<code>
import re

text = (
     "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
     "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
     "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
     )

withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
for line in text:
     print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
</code>


Python's equivalent of the Perl snippet seems to be the same number of lines, 
and more clear. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 00:43:26 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:43:26 -0300
Subject: Subclassing datetime.date
References: <d2ac5323-d5aa-4448-a289-eeb7d501bb19@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<87vdea9h2y.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7qsuomrx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 18:42:29 -0300, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com>  
escribi?:

> Sir Wilhelm the Sturdy <wgaggioli at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> I recently attempted to subclass the datetime.date object resulting in
>> horror and confusion, before submitting to a has-a relationship.
>> That's all fine and dandy, but out of curiosity I'd like to know what
>> I'm missing.
>>
>> class MyDate(datetime.date):
>>
>>     def __init__(self,*args,**kw):
>>        ...

> __init__ is *not* the construction method, __new__ is (at least with new
> style classes)

You're right. But in this case, instead of overriding __new__, I would add  
a separate constructor to avoid confusion with the existing one (a  
classmethod, actually, like fromordinal and fromtimestamp):

py> from datetime import date
py> class date(date):
...   @classmethod
...   def fromDMY(cls, d, m=None, y=None):
...     today = date.today()
...     if m is None: m = today.month
...     if y is None: y = today.year
...     return cls(y, m, d)
...
py> date.fromDMY(20, 3, 2010)
date(2010, 3, 20)
py> date.fromDMY(11)
date(2010, 2, 11)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From schifschaf at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 00:45:39 2010
From: schifschaf at gmail.com (Schif Schaf)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:45:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 12:19?am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:

>
> I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look in the
> documentation,

Hm. I checked in the repl, running `import re; help(re)` and the docs
on the `sub()` method didn't say anything about using back-refs in the
replacement string. Neat feature though.

> (2) check that it worked.
>
> <code>
> import re
>
> text = (
> ? ? ?"Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
> ? ? ?"adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
> ? ? ?"incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
> ? ? ?)
>
> withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
> for line in text:
> ? ? ?print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
> </code>
>

Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
the most recent match it just had.

Thanks.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Feb  7 00:49:28 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:49:28 +0000
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:31:52 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.

8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
the mechanical typewriter.

Historically, software and hardware which knows what a "tab" could be
split into two categories:

1. Tab stops are fixed at 8-column intervals.
2. Tab stops default to 8-column intervals but can be changed.

Recently, a third category has appeared (tab stops default to something
other than 8 columns). The most common example is Visual Studio. No
surprise there: Microsoft has a track record of introducing slight
incompatibilities into established standards. Just enough to inconvenience
anyone using competing products, but not so much that anyone operating
in a context where Microsoft isn't dominant has to abandon Microsoft's
product.

Given that:

1. 8-column tabs have been the standard for longer than most of us
have been alive, let alone programming, and
2. even if a particular text editor supports some other value, there is no
way to communicate this fact to anything else which might read the code,

the logical conclusion is that using anything other than 8 columns lies
somewhere between "silly" and "assuming the world revolves around you".



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 00:59:00 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 02:59:00 -0300
Subject: C:\Python25\Lib\IDLELIB\idle.pyw won't start
References: <mailman.1940.1265359016.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<Xns9D1675978278Bduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> <4B6C1BED.6090807@bluewin.ch>
	<op.u7ow3zkox6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas> <4B6D50CA.5070006@bluewin.ch>
Message-ID: <op.u7qtkmabx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:21:46 -0300, Anthra Norell  
<anthra.norell at bluewin.ch> escribi?:

> Gabriel,
>    Thanks for your hints. I take them up one by one:
>
>  >>> import os
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ImportError: No module named os
>
> C:\PYTHON25\LIB>dir os.*
>
> OS       PY         25,211  08-03-06  9:27a OS.PY
> OS       PYC        24,430  06-05-08  6:45p OS.PYC
>
> Here we are! Somehow the name got upper-cased! There's a whole bunch   
> (131) of upper-cased names in the Lib I shall install the whole thing  
> from scratch. That should take care if it. Thank you very much.

If you still have problems, try setting the PYTHONCASEOK environment  
variable.

C:\temp>python25 -?
...
Other environment variables:
...
PYTHONCASEOK : ignore case in 'import' statements (Windows).

> Frederic (Looking forward to Linux!)

Or at least a more decent Windows version. ME was a complete failure -  
Win98 Second Edition, being older, was better.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Feb  7 01:00:30 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:00:30 -0500
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
In-Reply-To: <037dfaba$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2050.1265485159.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037dfaba$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hklktq$eng$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/6/2010 7:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I have found an existing report for this issue:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4037
>
> The original poster's suggested fix was on the right track, but not
> complete. I've added a patch which works according to my tests.
>
> Since this report is currently unassigned, is there a protocol for
> raising its profile and having somebody check my patch for inclusion?
> Should I just send an email to python-dev?

At one time, I believe this would have been assigned to Tim Peters, but 
he seems not to be very active in Python development currently. Given 
that the patch is fairly trivial and the module possible orphaned, and 
that you do not regularly bug python-dev, I suspect it would be ok to 
enquire, once you have a complete patch (with testcase). The latter 
would let a committer/reviewer quickly check that it does what you 
claim. You might be asked to review some other issues in exchange. (Or 
the OP of this thread or the tracker item might help ;-).

Terry Jan Reedy



From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 01:26:00 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:26:00 +0100
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <hklmds$psq$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Nobody:
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:31:52 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
>> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
>> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.
> 
> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
> the mechanical typewriter.
> 
> Historically, software and hardware which knows what a "tab" could be
> split into two categories:
> 
> 1. Tab stops are fixed at 8-column intervals.
> 2. Tab stops default to 8-column intervals but can be changed.
> 
> Recently, a third category has appeared (tab stops default to something
> other than 8 columns).

I'm sorry, but you have your history wrong.

Tab stops originated with mechanical typewriters, and then printers. They could 
be just about anything.

Tab stops have never been universally 8 columns  --  so unless by "recent" 
introduction of other sizes you mean 1958 or thereabouts, you're completely off 
track.


> The most common example is Visual Studio. No
> surprise there: Microsoft has a track record of introducing slight
> incompatibilities into established standards. Just enough to inconvenience
> anyone using competing products, but not so much that anyone operating
> in a context where Microsoft isn't dominant has to abandon Microsoft's
> product.
> 
> Given that:
> 
> 1. 8-column tabs have been the standard for longer than most of us
> have been alive, let alone programming, and

I'm sorry, that's incorrect, it's never been standard.


> 2. even if a particular text editor supports some other value, there is no
> way to communicate this fact to anything else which might read the code,

If you add the word "portable" and remove the word "other" and replace 
"supports" with "is configured to use" then that's sort of technically correct. 
But I agree with the general sense. And I think most everyone does. A common 
convention would have been nice. But we don't have that.


> the logical conclusion is that using anything other than 8 columns lies
> somewhere between "silly" and "assuming the world revolves around you".

?the logical conclusion is that assuming 8 column tab stops lies somewhere 
between "silly" and "assuming the world revolves around you"? :-)

In particular, consider Windows programming.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 01:29:20 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:29:20 -0300
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <op.u7quy6zdx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:24:33 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>>> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with
>>> CTRL-C
>>
>> Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
>> On previous versions you may use this:
>>
>>         def server_bind(self):
>>             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
>>             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)
>>
>
> Overloading  server_bind() with your version solved my problem.

Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the difference  
is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb  7 01:38:06 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Feb 2010 22:38:06 -0800
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <hkln4e$dl5$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <q1lbn.5995$pv.4400 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Neil Hodgson  <nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com> wrote:
>Alf P. Steinbach:
>>
>> Anyways, I would suggest converting all those tabs to spaces, as e.g.
>> the Boost library project does  --  no tabs allowed.
>
>   This would damage the usefulness of source control histories (svn
>annotate) as all of the converted lines would show this recent cosmetic
>change rather than the previous change which is likely to be a
>substantive modification.

BTW, in case anyone is confused, it's "svn blame" vs "cvs annotate".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb  7 01:42:22 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Feb 2010 22:42:22 -0800
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f at l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Xah Lee  <xahlee at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>freenode.net.

Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 02:14:11 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:14:11 -0300
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <4B6E1444.9060001@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7qw1xcpx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:15:48 -0300, Jean-Michel Pichavant  
<jeanmichel at sequans.com> escribi?:

> I'm puzzled.
> Unless my english is failing me, everything would be solved using  
> hostnames if I follow you. Why don't you do that ?
> I am no network/IP guru, but it sounds very weird to have requests  
> rejected when using IP addresses. Are you sure your host names are  
> resolved with the same IPM address you are using ?

HTTP 1.1 requires a Host: header field; this way, multiple web servers may  
share the same IP address. So you can't identify a host by its IP alone;  
the host name is required. This was devised in order to save IPv4  
addresses; LACNIC (the Latin America addresses register) does not assign  
addresses to ISP's based solely on web hosting anymore - they MUST share  
existing IPs. And I think a similar policy is used on other regions.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Feb  7 02:52:18 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 04:52:18 -0300
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7qytg0lx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:34:14 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
> "Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com> wrote in message  
> news:m28wb6ypfs.fsf at googlemail.com...
>> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

>>> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
>>> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually  
>>> two
>>> separate functions.
>>
>> Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.
>
> I've just noticed that 'literal' part. But I think I still disagree.
>
> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a  
> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should  
> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it  
> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.

I think this would be a better analogy: A multiple screwdriver like this  
one
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/204461747/Multi_function_screwdriver_screwdriver.jpg
You use it when you need flexibility, or you don't know in advance what  
kind of screws you're going to encounter; they're mostly for hobbysts.
On the other hand, you have separate tools like this:
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk43/hightecelectronica/021-482.jpg
You choose one of them when you know exactly what you want. If the stuff  
you're working on uses exclusively certain kind of screws, you don't need  
flexibility, and you can choose in advance. They're also professional's  
choice.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 04:03:07 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:33:07 +0530
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002070103v7eccea56r657d4654d8f1acba@mail.gmail.com>

Here is one simple solution :
>>> intext = """Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit,
sed do eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."""

>>> intext.replace('[', '{').replace(']',
'}')
'Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod
tempor  incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.'

*Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I?ll use
regular expressions." Now they have two problems.* ? Jamie
Zawinski<ttp://jwz.livejournal.com>in comp.lang.emacs.


On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Schif Schaf <schifschaf at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 7, 12:19 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>
> >
> > I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look in
> the
> > documentation,
>
> Hm. I checked in the repl, running `import re; help(re)` and the docs
> on the `sub()` method didn't say anything about using back-refs in the
> replacement string. Neat feature though.
>
> > (2) check that it worked.
> >
> > <code>
> > import re
> >
> > text = (
> >      "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
> >      "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
> >      "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
> >      )
> >
> > withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
> > for line in text:
> >      print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
> > </code>
> >
>
> Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
> regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
> replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
> the most recent match it just had.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From macosx at rocteur.cc  Sun Feb  7 04:52:10 2010
From: macosx at rocteur.cc (@ Rocteur CC)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:52:10 +0100
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002070103v7eccea56r657d4654d8f1acba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070103v7eccea56r657d4654d8f1acba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6C6462AB-4665-40C9-B652-076FA574B872@rocteur.cc>


On 07 Feb 2010, at 10:03, Shashwat Anand wrote:

> Here is one simple solution :
> >>> intext = """Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur  
> adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut [labore] et  
> [dolore] magna aliqua."""
>
> >>> intext.replace('[', '{').replace(']', '}')
> 'Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do  
> eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.'
>
> Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I?ll use  
> regular expressions." Now they have two problems. ? Jamie Zawinski  
> in comp.lang.emacs.

That is because regular expressions are what we learned in programming  
the shell from sed to awk and ksh and zsh and of course Perl and we've  
read the two books by Jeffrey and much much more!!!

How do we rethink and relearn how we do things and should we ?

What is the solution ?

Jerry
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From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Sun Feb  7 04:54:16 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:54:16 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<mailman.2063.1265500492.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3360023.OTX69idHFh@beaureve.gmx.net>

Christian Heimes wrote:


> If you *really* need to overwrite __iter__ on your instance rather
> than defining it on your class, you need to proxy the method call:
> 
> class MyObject(object):
>    def __iter__(self):
>       return self.myiter()
> 
> obj = MyObject()
> obj.myiter = myiter
> 
> That should do the trick.

Thanks a lot, that works.


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 04:55:53 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 01:55:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <6361d161-2367-44e0-a1aa-1938cb5e0bfc@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 12:52?am, duncan smith <buzz... at urubu.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> import platform
> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
> ? ? ?TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
> else:
> ? ? ?TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38

As Christian said, whether you're using 32-bit or 64-bit shouldn't
make a difference here.  Just use the first TINY value you give.

> I'm not 100% sure how reliable this will be across platforms. ?Any ideas
> about the cleanest, reliable way of uncovering this type of information?

In practice, it's safe to assume that your 2.225....e-308 value is
reliable across platforms.  That value is the one that's appropriate
for the IEEE 754 binary64 format, and it's difficult these days to
find CPython running on a machine that uses any other format for C
doubles (and hence for Python floats).

The smallest positive *normal* number representable in IEEE 754
binary64 is exactly 2**-1022 (or approximately
2.2250738585072014e-308).  The smallest positive *subnormal* number
representable is exactly 2**-1074, or approximately
'4.9406564584124654e-324'.  (Subnormals have fewer bits of precision
than normal numbers;  it's the presence of subnormals that allows for
'gradual underflow'.)  Some machines can/will treat subnormal numbers
specially for speed reasons, either flushing a subnormal result of a
floating-point operation to 0, or replacing subnormal inputs to an
floating-point operation with 0, or both.  So for maximal portability,
and to avoid numerical problems, it's best to avoid the subnormal
region.

> The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
> exception.

This is a bit surprising.  What's the precise form of the error you
get?  Do you still get the same error if you replace your TINY value
by something fractionally larger?  (E.g., 2.23e-308.)

--
Mark


From rychphd at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 05:06:52 2010
From: rychphd at gmail.com (rych)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 02:06:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ctypes Structure serialization
Message-ID: <615b1271-a9b0-4558-8e45-e4370698d96a@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

I'm not quite familiar with python serialization but the picle module,
at least, doesn't seem to be able to serialize a ctypes Structure with
array-fields. Even if it was, the ASCII file produced is not in a
human-friendly format.

Could someone please suggest a method of saving and loading the fields
in ctypes' Structure derived class to a json or better yet, to
something like INFO
http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_41_0/doc/html/boost_propertytree/parsers.html#boost_propertytree.parsers.info_parser

For example, I have an object of
>>> class MyStruct(Structure):
...    _fields_ = [("a", c_int),
...                ("b", c_float),
...                ("point_array", c_float * 4)]

I'd like the corresponding file to look like

a 1
b 1.0
point array 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4

Thanks


From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Sun Feb  7 05:13:41 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:13:41 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> If you want iterator operations "similar to itertools", why does this
> mean you need to replace anything? Just create your own iterators.
> 
> Or use pre-processing and post-processing to get what you want.
> 
> Can you show an example of what you would like to happen?

Steven, 

my classes repesent musical objects. The fundamental paradigm I want to
apply is that of a Sequence, i.e. the most abstract aspect of music is
that "things" occur in a certain order.

Then I have a TimedSequence class, which is a Sequences whose elements
have a "time" attribute. I now want to be able to append such Sequences
by writing

s1 = TimedSequence (time=1,'a') # one-element Sequence
s2 = TimedSequence (time=2,'b')

y = s1*2 + s2

Naively appending those sequences would give me
Time=1,'a'
Time=1,'a'
Time=2,'b'

but this is not what I want. Time needs to progress if I append a
sequence to another. So what I really want is something like

Time=1,'a'
Time=2,'a'
Time=3,'b'

This implies that time is shifted to the next integer, but this is not
always the case. I need to know about some kind of "alignment". In
music this translates to "let a sequence start at the beginning of a
bar", or half bar or quarter note or whatever.

So I want to write

y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)

which should iterate as

Time=1,'a'
Time=2,'a'
Time=10,'b'

I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__) and
use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't quite
see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be wrong here.

Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done. The
beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.






From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb  7 05:33:55 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:33:55 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2066.1265505358.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2066.1265505358.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6e9714$0$29806$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi JM,


Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> News123 wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>  
>>
>> Well This was exactly my question.
>> for virtual web servers I cannot just use the IP-address.
>> some XMLRPC servers do need the histname within the HTTP-POST request.
>>
>>   
> a valid IP address would make it

What I meant is: Window 7 seems to be waaaayyyy slower if an xmlrpc
client uses a host name ('localhost') than an IP-address ('127.0.0.1).
the speed difference is between 1 request per second or 10-20 requests
per second.


>> if I just replaced the hostname with the IP address, then certain servers
>> would not be accessable.

many computers host multiple web servers under the same IP-address.
( see for example http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html )

So I cannot just replace a host name with an IP-address and expect
to receive the correct data / correct xmlrpc server.


>> I had to use the IP-address for connecteing
> why not using the host names?

I did not want to use the hostname due to the slowdown of
"locahost vs. 127.0.0.1"  issue on my host.

You are right, that I did not verify whether this issue exists also with
external servers and I should verify this first.


>> , but to pass the hostname in
>> the HTTP-POST request.
>>
>> I wondered how to convince puthon's SimpleXMLRPCServer (or any other
>> standard python xmlrpc server), such, that I can obtain above mentioned
>> goal.
>>
>>   
> I'm puzzled.
> Unless my english is failing me, everything would be solved using
> hostnames if I follow you. Why don't you do that ?
> I am no network/IP guru, but it sounds very weird to have requests
> rejected when using IP addresses. Are you sure your host names are
> resolved with the same IPM address you are using ?

The request would not be rejected, but apache can (if being configured
for name based virtual hosts) look at the hostname within the TCP/IP
payload (the entire url (including the host name) is normally also in
the GET / POST request ) and decide to deliver different data (or to
return HTTP errors) depending on the hostname in the payload.


I hope this clarifies.

Your answer gave me some thoughts though:

I still have to check whether the issue really exists with external
requests other than localhost.
Also I should probably try to attack the root cause
(  probably with help of ethereal or a similiar tool) instead of trying
to work around it.

I could just change the windows /etc/hosts equivalent and tell localhost
to have only an IPV4 address (perhaps this increases the performance)


On the other hand:
 Some people use name based virtual servers to provide special web
services by providing a 'fake-host name' in the http request. it might
be, that the fake host name doesn't even have a DNS entry.
( Though security by obscurity is a questionable practice )

so for some weird use cases it could be worth knowing how to connect to
one IP addres and to pass a different host name in the HTTP payload when
using an  xmlrpcclient


bye


N


From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb  7 05:38:39 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:38:39 +0100
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B6E982F.4020404@free.fr>

Hi Jerry,

Jerry Hill wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:
>>
>> A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
>> an ssh to a windows host
>>
>> The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.
> 
> The Twisted library has an sshd implementation, called conch.  Here an
> article with a simple python sshd built with twisted:
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html


Thanks. I'll check whether twisted conch runs also under windows.
Yesterday I made the probably too fast conclusion, that twisted conch
exists only for liux as I could only find a twisted-conch tarball and
not a windows installer.

But probably twisted-conch is already part of the twisted installer for
windows.
I'll check it.




From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb  7 05:39:06 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:39:06 +0100
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6e984a$0$29806$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Jerry,

Jerry Hill wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:
>>
>> A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
>> an ssh to a windows host
>>
>> The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.
> 
> The Twisted library has an sshd implementation, called conch.  Here an
> article with a simple python sshd built with twisted:
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html


Thanks. I'll check whether twisted conch runs also under windows.
Yesterday I made the probably too fast conclusion, that twisted conch
exists only for liux as I could only find a twisted-conch tarball and
not a windows installer.

But probably twisted-conch is already part of the twisted installer for
windows.
I'll check it.




From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb  7 05:42:12 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:42:12 +0100
Subject: sshd in python for windows 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b6e0455$0$20650$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2072.1265512554.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b6e9904$0$29806$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Jerry,

Jerry Hill wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wondered which modules would be best to perform following task:
>>
>> A user uses a standard ssh (e.g. putty or openssh) client and performs
>> an ssh to a windows host
>>
>> The windows host would run a python script acting as ssh server.
> 
> The Twisted library has an sshd implementation, called conch.  Here an
> article with a simple python sshd built with twisted:
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist4.html


THanks a look at it in moe detail.
Yesterday I made the probably wrong assumption, that twisted-conch
exists only for linux as I just found a twisted-conch tarball.

Probably however twisted-conch is already part of the twisted windows
installer package I'll check this.

N



From peloko45 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 06:22:59 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 03:22:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simulating logging.exception with another traceback
Message-ID: <0c13d3f7-addf-4972-91c3-6f41fadfb2b5@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I would want to get the output from `logging.exception` but with
traceback from the caller function (I've already all that
information).

This would be the error with logging.exception:
--------------------
ERROR:
  PipeError('/bin/ls -l |  ', 'no command after of pipe')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
160, in __call__
    raise PipeError(command, 'no command after of pipe')
PipeError: ('/bin/ls -l |  ', 'no command after of pipe')
--------------------

And I've trying it with:
--------------------
message = "File \"{0}\", line {1}, in {2}\n\n  {3}".format(
                file, line, function, caller)
logging.error(message)

ERROR:
  File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
  163, in __call__    return self.throw(PipeError, command, 'no
  command after of pipe')
--------------------

Could be used `logging.LogRecord` [1] to get it? How?


[1] http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#logging.LogRecord


From chyavana at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 06:32:14 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:32:14 +0800
Subject: Dynamic variable names
Message-ID: <f-6dnR0qCr9cOfPWnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>

Dear Folks,

I have read that one should use a dictionary in python to accommodate 
dynamic variable names. Yet, I am puzzled how to achieve that in my 
case. Here is what I want to do:

1. The user inputs a number of six-digit hex numbers as a 
comma-separated list. These numbers represent colours, but the number of 
colours is not known beforehand.

2. Using these colours in pairs, I am generating image files whose names 
must be unique. I could use the respective hex numbers for this, but 
would like to explore generating filenames like

colour_1-colour_2.jpg

Because I do not know how many colours there would be in advance, I need 
to generate the colour_n names on the fly.

So, my two questions are:

1. How do I do this properly in python?

2. If there is a better scheme than what I have outlined, can someone 
please point me to a Web link?

Thank you.

Chandra


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:28:27 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:28:27 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f at l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> Xah Lee  <xahlee at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>> freenode.net.
> 
> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.

It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
#python is likely to last much longer than the last.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:32:14 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:32:14 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.1827.1265203185.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.03.21.37.55@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1868.1265236726.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.04.00.01.06@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.1873.1265244624.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2mxznzjdk.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list@python.org>	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m28wb6ypfs.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<qMobn.37013$Ym4.17413@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <hkmbts$v69$2@ger.gmane.org>

bartc wrote:
> "Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:m28wb6ypfs.fsf at googlemail.com...
>> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:
>>
>>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:22:39 -0300, bartc <bartc at freeuk.com> escribi?:
>>>> "Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:mailman.1998.1265399766.28905.python-list at python.org...
>>>>> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>>>>>> Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I prefer Guido's formulation (which, naturally, I can't find a
>>>>>>> direct
>>>>>>> quote for right now): if you expect that a boolean argument is only
>>>>>>> going to take *literal* True or False, then it should be split into
>>>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>>>> two functions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So rather than three boolean arguments, would you have eight
>>>>>> functions?
>>>>>>
>>>>> If there's genuinely a need for that functionality, yes.
>>>>
>>>> So you want a function such as drawtext(s, bold=true, italic=false,
>>>> underline=true) to be split into:
>>>>
>>>> drawtext(s)
>>>> drawtextb(s)
>>>> drawtexti(s)
>>>> drawtextu(s)
>>>> drawtextbi(s)
>>>> drawtextbu(s)
>>>> drawtextiu(s)
>>>> drawtextbiu(s)
>>>
>>> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
>>> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
>>> separate functions.
>>
>> Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.
> 
> I've just noticed that 'literal' part. But I think I still disagree.
> 
> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a
> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should
> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it
> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.
> 
Congratulations.  That has to be the most bogus analogy I've seen on
c.l.py this year.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:39:24 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:39:24 -0500
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <hkmcbb$1ea$1@ger.gmane.org>

Nobody wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 21:31:52 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
>> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
>> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.
> 
> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
> the mechanical typewriter.
> 
Clearly written by someone who has never *used* a mechanical typewriter.
The original mechanisms had "tab set" and "tab clear" keys, so you had
variable tabbing according to the needs of the particular document you
were working on. Look under "T" in

  http://www.mytypewriter.com/explorelearn/glossary.html

if you aren't old enough to have used one.

> Historically, software and hardware which knows what a "tab" could be
> split into two categories:
> 
> 1. Tab stops are fixed at 8-column intervals.
> 2. Tab stops default to 8-column intervals but can be changed.
> 
> Recently, a third category has appeared (tab stops default to something
> other than 8 columns). The most common example is Visual Studio. No
> surprise there: Microsoft has a track record of introducing slight
> incompatibilities into established standards. Just enough to inconvenience
> anyone using competing products, but not so much that anyone operating
> in a context where Microsoft isn't dominant has to abandon Microsoft's
> product.
> 
Consider instead that perhaps this one time Microsoft did it for the
convenience of the user (there has to be some reason why it's such a
wealthy company).

> Given that:
> 
> 1. 8-column tabs have been the standard for longer than most of us
> have been alive, let alone programming, and
> 2. even if a particular text editor supports some other value, there is no
> way to communicate this fact to anything else which might read the code,
> 
> the logical conclusion is that using anything other than 8 columns lies
> somewhere between "silly" and "assuming the world revolves around you".
> 

Which is what you appear to be doing with your fantasy about mechanical
typewriters.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:46:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:46:52 -0500
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkln6h$iaj$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
	<hkln6h$iaj$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6EB63C.1060208@holdenweb.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:49:28 +0000, Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
>> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
>> the mechanical typewriter.
>>
> 	Really? None of the various Royal, Remington, and Olivetti (sp?)
> typewriters I learned on had any knowledge of default tab stops. All had
> a row of sliding "pins" on the carriage, which were slid back and forth
> by the <tab set> and <tab clear> button (which required one to first
> position the carriage at the position at which the stop was to be
> placed). The <tab> key itself functioned by first pushing a lever into
> the area covered by the stop-row (after the current position stop, if
> one existed), then releasing the carriage to slide until the next stop
> -- uhm -- stopped the motion by impacting the lever; releasing the <tab>
> key would then re-engage the normal carriage motion control, and
> withdraw the lever.
> 
> 	8-space tab stops were, I believe, the default for various computer
> terminals, DECwriter printers, and maybe teletype units (in which there
> was no moving carriage on which a physical stop could be placed). Not
> sure how an 029 keypunch machine would behave -- either punching the
> code the a tab character, or skipping to the next field defined on a
> drum-card.
> 
When I started my computing career the main input medium at the
installation I worked was paper tape, and the Flexowriter (pretty much a
mechanical typewriter mechanism with a tape reader and punch attached)
was the data preparation device (though teletypes were used at other
installations). So it had adjustable tab settings.

The 029 punch (and the 026 before it) used a punch card mounte on a drum
to set the tab stops, which were therefore completely variable - one
would use a different tab card for Fortran and PL/1, for example. So a
tab was purely a spacing operation, no chads were punched from the card,
and indeed I was never aware of an EBCDIC "tab" character code (which is
by no means to say that there isn't one - Wikipedia says "The EBCDIC
code for HT is 5").

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:46:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:46:52 -0500
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkln6h$iaj$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
	<hkln6h$iaj$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6EB63C.1060208@holdenweb.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:49:28 +0000, Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
> 
>> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
>> the mechanical typewriter.
>>
> 	Really? None of the various Royal, Remington, and Olivetti (sp?)
> typewriters I learned on had any knowledge of default tab stops. All had
> a row of sliding "pins" on the carriage, which were slid back and forth
> by the <tab set> and <tab clear> button (which required one to first
> position the carriage at the position at which the stop was to be
> placed). The <tab> key itself functioned by first pushing a lever into
> the area covered by the stop-row (after the current position stop, if
> one existed), then releasing the carriage to slide until the next stop
> -- uhm -- stopped the motion by impacting the lever; releasing the <tab>
> key would then re-engage the normal carriage motion control, and
> withdraw the lever.
> 
> 	8-space tab stops were, I believe, the default for various computer
> terminals, DECwriter printers, and maybe teletype units (in which there
> was no moving carriage on which a physical stop could be placed). Not
> sure how an 029 keypunch machine would behave -- either punching the
> code the a tab character, or skipping to the next field defined on a
> drum-card.
> 
When I started my computing career the main input medium at the
installation I worked was paper tape, and the Flexowriter (pretty much a
mechanical typewriter mechanism with a tape reader and punch attached)
was the data preparation device (though teletypes were used at other
installations). So it had adjustable tab settings.

The 029 punch (and the 026 before it) used a punch card mounte on a drum
to set the tab stops, which were therefore completely variable - one
would use a different tab card for Fortran and PL/1, for example. So a
tab was purely a spacing operation, no chads were punched from the card,
and indeed I was never aware of an EBCDIC "tab" character code (which is
by no means to say that there isn't one - Wikipedia says "The EBCDIC
code for HT is 5").

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 07:49:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:49:13 -0500
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
In-Reply-To: <63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <hkmctm$2fe$2@ger.gmane.org>

Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> If you want iterator operations "similar to itertools", why does this
>> mean you need to replace anything? Just create your own iterators.
>>
>> Or use pre-processing and post-processing to get what you want.
>>
>> Can you show an example of what you would like to happen?
> 
> Steven, 
> 
> my classes repesent musical objects. The fundamental paradigm I want to
> apply is that of a Sequence, i.e. the most abstract aspect of music is
> that "things" occur in a certain order.
> 
> Then I have a TimedSequence class, which is a Sequences whose elements
> have a "time" attribute. I now want to be able to append such Sequences
> by writing
> 
> s1 = TimedSequence (time=1,'a') # one-element Sequence
> s2 = TimedSequence (time=2,'b')
> 
> y = s1*2 + s2
> 
> Naively appending those sequences would give me
> Time=1,'a'
> Time=1,'a'
> Time=2,'b'
> 
> but this is not what I want. Time needs to progress if I append a
> sequence to another. So what I really want is something like
> 
> Time=1,'a'
> Time=2,'a'
> Time=3,'b'
> 
> This implies that time is shifted to the next integer, but this is not
> always the case. I need to know about some kind of "alignment". In
> music this translates to "let a sequence start at the beginning of a
> bar", or half bar or quarter note or whatever.
> 
> So I want to write
> 
> y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)
> 
> which should iterate as
> 
> Time=1,'a'
> Time=2,'a'
> Time=10,'b'
> 
> I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__) and
> use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't quite
> see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be wrong here.
> 
> Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done. The
> beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.
> 
In that case why not just assume that the timing of a sequence is
relative to the current time unless the "align" argument is given?

You might also need an event of zero duration to set the start time for
a sequence.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 07:57:13 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:57:13 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>

>>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>>> freenode.net.
>>
>> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
>> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
>> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
>
> It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
> #python is likely to last much longer than the last.

Some humanity, please! If you look at the web page of the guy it
really strikes me as a poor bastard who deserves more pity than
bashing. IRC, newsgroups, email, web page, etc, these are the only
things that this guy is doing, if you take these things away from him
I don't know what will be left for him. Yes, he is annoying, yes, he
is trolling, but if this prevents him from jumping under the bus, then
I'd say let him do it. How many serial trolls are there on c.l.p? Not
many. The average troll should of course be kicked out from
everywhere, but guys like Xah are really rare and on humanitarian
grounds I think should be allowed to do their things. If you really
think about it the damage is not that great.

In medieval times 99% of crazy people (using a loose definition of
crazy) were either executed or tortured and executed, however, the one
lonely village clown or court clown was allowed to be crazy, he even
had a decent income from the king. I'm not suggesting a stipend for
Xah from the PSF :) but having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it
makes him happy.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:07:30 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:07:30 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkme00$5sm$1@ger.gmane.org>

hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>> So it seems we both misunderstood the problem.
>>
>> I didn't read the top level article until now, and reading it, I can't make
>> sense of it.
>>
> 
> Seems that you should read the whole thing before making a post, or
> else you cannot know what we are talking about.
> Steven doesn't misunderstand me. We are talking about what I need, and
> he tries to help.
> 
> 
> 
>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
>>
>> [snip]
>>
> 
> This is a hash collision problem. Nobody has proved that SHA-256 is
> collision free, even not in the random oracle model, because people
> always suppose that a random oracle exists, and make hash function its
> substitution. That means it may be broken someday. And any provable
> security based on random oracle model is not secure.
> 
It's very easy to prove that no hash function is collision-free, since
the domain (all possible inputs) is much larger than the range (all
possible outputs). Hence there must be many inputs that map to the same
output.

A *good* hash function is unpredictable enough to make finding two
colliding strings impractical - and even the best hash functions that
cryptographers could devise at the time have been broken. We should
remember that "broken" to a cryptographer means something rather
different than it does in common usage, so a broken scheme need not
necessarily be dropped immediately - one would just stop using it in new
systems.

> 
>>> I'm suggesting that, in general, there's no way to tell in advance which
>>> regexes will be easy and which will be hard, and even when they are easy,
>>> the enumeration will often be infinite.
> 
> It is hard to tell in advance. However, we can add some timing limit
> or counting limit, to make it an algorithm, which can halt. For
> example, whenever the program outputs more than 1000000 expressions
> that match the input regex, we can halt because that exceeds our
> limit. But surely this is not efficient because of the post-decision.
> 
>> Essentially, any regexp that includes '+' or '*' (directly or via e.g. notation
>> that denotes "digit sequence") yields an infinite number of strings.
> 
> Infinity is really relative, not absolute. It is relative to the
> computing speed. For example, the regex '^[0|1]{2048}$' is rather
> simple and doesn't contain '+' or '$', but trying to output all
> expressions that match it has a complexity of 2^2048. If we can do
> that, then we can break RSA-2048.
> We must face the reality .
> 
I have always understood that there's a pretty real distinction between
"finite" and "infinite". Are you telling me I am wrong, or are you
merely saying that some finite cases might just as well be infinite for
practical purposes?

And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
when multiplied together, give that specific value.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb  7 08:11:10 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:11:10 -0600
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>

Schif Schaf wrote:
> On Feb 7, 12:19 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look in the
>> documentation,
[snip]
>> <code>
>> import re
>>
>> text = (
>>      "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
>>      "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
>>      "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
>>      )
>>
>> withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
>> for line in text:
>>      print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
>> </code>
> 
> Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
> regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
> replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
> the most recent match it just had.

I suspect Alf's rustiness with regexps caused him to miss the 
simpler rendition of

   print withbacks.sub(r'{\1}', line)

And to answer those who are reaching for other non-regex (whether 
string translations or .replace(), or pyparsing) solutions, it 
depends on what you want to happen in pathological cases like

   s = """Dangling closing]
      with properly [[nested]] and
      complex [properly [nested] text]
      and [improperly [nested] text
      and with some text [straddling
      lines] and with
      dangling opening [brackets
      """
where you'll begin to see the differences.

-tkc






From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 08:15:11 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 18:45:11 +0530
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org> 
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>

LOL
pow(funny, sys.maxint)

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com
> wrote:

> >>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
> >>> freenode.net.
> >>
> >> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
> >> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
> >> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
> >
> > It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
> > #python is likely to last much longer than the last.
>
> Some humanity, please! If you look at the web page of the guy it
> really strikes me as a poor bastard who deserves more pity than
> bashing. IRC, newsgroups, email, web page, etc, these are the only
> things that this guy is doing, if you take these things away from him
> I don't know what will be left for him. Yes, he is annoying, yes, he
> is trolling, but if this prevents him from jumping under the bus, then
> I'd say let him do it. How many serial trolls are there on c.l.p? Not
> many. The average troll should of course be kicked out from
> everywhere, but guys like Xah are really rare and on humanitarian
> grounds I think should be allowed to do their things. If you really
> think about it the damage is not that great.
>
> In medieval times 99% of crazy people (using a loose definition of
> crazy) were either executed or tortured and executed, however, the one
> lonely village clown or court clown was allowed to be crazy, he even
> had a decent income from the king. I'm not suggesting a stipend for
> Xah from the PSF :) but having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it
> makes him happy.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:19:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:19:51 -0500
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <4B6EBDF7.1010907@holdenweb.com>

duncan smith wrote:
> Christian Heimes wrote:
>> duncan smith wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering
>>> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python
>>> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a
>>> dependence on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the
>>> smallest positive float I'm using,
>>>
>>>
>>> import platform
>>> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>>>      TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>> else:
>>>      TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>
>>>
>>> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>>>
>>>
>>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
>>> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
>>> 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>
>> You are confusing a 32 / 64bit build with 32 / 64bit floats. Python's
>> float type is build upon C's double precision float type on both 32 and
>> 64 bit builds. The simple precision 32bit float type isn't used. The
>> DBL_MIN and DBL_MAX values are equal on all platforms that have full
>> IEEE 754 float point support. The radix may be different, though.
>>
>> Christian
> 
> OK, this is the sort of confusion I suspected.  I wasn't thinking
> straight.  The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
> exception.  Thanks.
> 
Whether this is relevant or not I can't say, but you must be careful to
note that the smallest representable floating-point value (i.e. the
smallest number distinguishable from zero) is not the same as the
smallest difference between two numbers of a given magnitude.

Consider a decimal floating-point system with a two-digit exponent and a
four-digit mantissa, and for convenience ignore negative mantissas. The
range of representable non-zero values runs from 1E-99 to 9999E99. But
adding 1E-99 to (say) 1 will just give you 1 because the system has
insufficient precision to represent the true result.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:19:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:19:51 -0500
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <4B6EBDF7.1010907@holdenweb.com>

duncan smith wrote:
> Christian Heimes wrote:
>> duncan smith wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>        I'm trying to find a clean and reliable way of uncovering
>>> information about 'extremal' values for floats on versions of Python
>>> earlier than 2.6 (just 2.5 actually).  I don't want to add a
>>> dependence on 3rd party modules just for this purpose.  e.g. For the
>>> smallest positive float I'm using,
>>>
>>>
>>> import platform
>>> if platform.architecture()[0].startswith('64'):
>>>      TINY = 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>> else:
>>>      TINY = 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>
>>>
>>> where I've extracted the values for TINY from numpy in IDLE,
>>>
>>>
>>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float32).tiny)
>>> 1.1754943508222875e-38
>>>  >>> float(numpy.finfo(numpy.float64).tiny)
>>> 2.2250738585072014e-308
>>
>> You are confusing a 32 / 64bit build with 32 / 64bit floats. Python's
>> float type is build upon C's double precision float type on both 32 and
>> 64 bit builds. The simple precision 32bit float type isn't used. The
>> DBL_MIN and DBL_MAX values are equal on all platforms that have full
>> IEEE 754 float point support. The radix may be different, though.
>>
>> Christian
> 
> OK, this is the sort of confusion I suspected.  I wasn't thinking
> straight.  The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
> exception.  Thanks.
> 
Whether this is relevant or not I can't say, but you must be careful to
note that the smallest representable floating-point value (i.e. the
smallest number distinguishable from zero) is not the same as the
smallest difference between two numbers of a given magnitude.

Consider a decimal floating-point system with a two-digit exponent and a
four-digit mantissa, and for convenience ignore negative mantissas. The
range of representable non-zero values runs from 1E-99 to 9999E99. But
adding 1E-99 to (say) 1 will just give you 1 because the system has
insufficient precision to represent the true result.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:25:28 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:25:28 -0500
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <6C6462AB-4665-40C9-B652-076FA574B872@rocteur.cc>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<d4ab53de1002070103v7eccea56r657d4654d8f1acba@mail.gmail.com>
	<6C6462AB-4665-40C9-B652-076FA574B872@rocteur.cc>
Message-ID: <hkmf1n$8ko$1@ger.gmane.org>

@ Rocteur CC wrote:
> 
> On 07 Feb 2010, at 10:03, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> 
>> Here is one simple solution :
>> >>> intext = """Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing
>> elit, sed do eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna
>> aliqua."""
>>
>> >>> intext.replace('[', '{').replace(']',
>> '}')                                      
>> 'Lorem {ipsum} dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do
>> eiusmod tempor  incididunt ut {labore} et {dolore} magna aliqua.'
>>
>> /Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I?ll use
>> regular expressions." Now they have two problems./ ? Jamie Zawinski
>> <ttp://jwz.livejournal.com> in comp.lang.emacs.
> 
> That is because regular expressions are what we learned in programming
> the shell from sed to awk and ksh and zsh and of course Perl and we've
> read the two books by Jeffrey and much much more!!!
> 
> How do we rethink and relearn how we do things and should we ?
> 
> What is the solution ?
> 
A rigorous focus on programming simplicity.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 08:31:08 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:31:08 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002070531n6e132d54w5139ef700da36357@mail.gmail.com>

> LOL

assert funny > 1

> pow(funny, sys.maxint)


>> >>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>> >>> freenode.net.
>> >>
>> >> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
>> >> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp.  From my POV, that's
>> >> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
>> >
>> > It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
>> > #python is likely to last much longer than the last.
>>
>> Some humanity, please! If you look at the web page of the guy it
>> really strikes me as a poor bastard who deserves more pity than
>> bashing. IRC, newsgroups, email, web page, etc, these are the only
>> things that this guy is doing, if you take these things away from him
>> I don't know what will be left for him. Yes, he is annoying, yes, he
>> is trolling, but if this prevents him from jumping under the bus, then
>> I'd say let him do it. How many serial trolls are there on c.l.p? Not
>> many. The average troll should of course be kicked out from
>> everywhere, but guys like Xah are really rare and on humanitarian
>> grounds I think should be allowed to do their things. If you really
>> think about it the damage is not that great.
>>
>> In medieval times 99% of crazy people (using a loose definition of
>> crazy) were either executed or tortured and executed, however, the one
>> lonely village clown or court clown was allowed to be crazy, he even
>> had a decent income from the king. I'm not suggesting a stipend for
>> Xah from the PSF :) but having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it
>> makes him happy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:31:24 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:31:24 -0500
Subject: Dynamic variable names
In-Reply-To: <f-6dnR0qCr9cOfPWnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <f-6dnR0qCr9cOfPWnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkmfcr$a33$1@ger.gmane.org>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
> 
> I have read that one should use a dictionary in python to accommodate
> dynamic variable names. Yet, I am puzzled how to achieve that in my
> case. Here is what I want to do:
> 
> 1. The user inputs a number of six-digit hex numbers as a
> comma-separated list. These numbers represent colours, but the number of
> colours is not known beforehand.
> 
> 2. Using these colours in pairs, I am generating image files whose names
> must be unique. I could use the respective hex numbers for this, but
> would like to explore generating filenames like
> 
> colour_1-colour_2.jpg
> 
> Because I do not know how many colours there would be in advance, I need
> to generate the colour_n names on the fly.
> 
> So, my two questions are:
> 
> 1. How do I do this properly in python?
> 
> 2. If there is a better scheme than what I have outlined, can someone
> please point me to a Web link?
> 
Here's one way, though not necessarily the best:

>>> import itertools
>>> ctr = itertools.count(1)
>>> for i in range(5):
...   print "colour_%03d-colour%03d.jpg" % (ctr.next(), ctr.next())
...
colour_001-colour002.jpg
colour_003-colour004.jpg
colour_005-colour006.jpg
colour_007-colour008.jpg
colour_009-colour010.jpg
>>>

I zero-filled the names so they sort in numerical order. If this isn't a
requirement then simply change the format string to

	"colour_%d-colour%d.jpg"

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From as at sci.fi  Sun Feb  7 08:33:43 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:33:43 +0200
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg3ljf5uq4o.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

Schif Schaf <schifschaf at gmail.com> writes:

> (brackets replaced by braces). I can do that with Perl pretty easily:
>
> ~~~~
> for (<>) {
>     s/\[(.+?)\]/\{$1\}/g;
>     print;
> }
> ~~~~

Just curious, but since this is just transpose, then why not simply
tr/[]/{}/? I.e. why use a regular expression at all for this?

In python you would do this with 

for line in text: 
     print line.replace('[', '{').replace(']', '}')



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:35:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:35:22 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> LOL
> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
> 
Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.

I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
much of that kind of nonsense.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:37:07 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:37:07 -0500
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>

Tim Chase wrote:
> Schif Schaf wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 12:19 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>>> I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look
>>> in the
>>> documentation,
> [snip]
>>> <code>
>>> import re
>>>
>>> text = (
>>>      "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
>>>      "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
>>>      "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
>>>      )
>>>
>>> withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
>>> for line in text:
>>>      print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
>>> </code>
>>
>> Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
>> regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
>> replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
>> the most recent match it just had.
> 
> I suspect Alf's rustiness with regexps caused him to miss the simpler
> rendition of
> 
>   print withbacks.sub(r'{\1}', line)
> 
> And to answer those who are reaching for other non-regex (whether string
> translations or .replace(), or pyparsing) solutions, it depends on what
> you want to happen in pathological cases like
> 
>   s = """Dangling closing]
>      with properly [[nested]] and
>      complex [properly [nested] text]
>      and [improperly [nested] text
>      and with some text [straddling
>      lines] and with
>      dangling opening [brackets
>      """
> where you'll begin to see the differences.
> 
Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
replacement operation fail?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 08:37:07 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:37:07 -0500
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>

Tim Chase wrote:
> Schif Schaf wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 12:19 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>>> I haven't used regexps in Python before, but what I did was (1) look
>>> in the
>>> documentation,
> [snip]
>>> <code>
>>> import re
>>>
>>> text = (
>>>      "Lorem [ipsum] dolor sit amet, consectetur",
>>>      "adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor",
>>>      "incididunt ut [labore] et [dolore] magna aliqua."
>>>      )
>>>
>>> withbracks = re.compile( r'\[(.+?)\]' )
>>> for line in text:
>>>      print( re.sub( withbracks, r'{\1}', line) )
>>> </code>
>>
>> Seems like there's magic happening here. There's the `withbracks`
>> regex that applies itself to `line`. But then when `re.sub()` does the
>> replacement operation, it appears to consult the `withbracks` regex on
>> the most recent match it just had.
> 
> I suspect Alf's rustiness with regexps caused him to miss the simpler
> rendition of
> 
>   print withbacks.sub(r'{\1}', line)
> 
> And to answer those who are reaching for other non-regex (whether string
> translations or .replace(), or pyparsing) solutions, it depends on what
> you want to happen in pathological cases like
> 
>   s = """Dangling closing]
>      with properly [[nested]] and
>      complex [properly [nested] text]
>      and [improperly [nested] text
>      and with some text [straddling
>      lines] and with
>      dangling opening [brackets
>      """
> where you'll begin to see the differences.
> 
Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
replacement operation fail?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb  7 08:47:17 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:47:17 -0600
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EC465.3000405@tim.thechases.com>

hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
> 
> This is a hash collision problem. Nobody has proved that SHA-256 is
> collision free

It's actually pretty easy to prove that it is *not* collision 
free.  The SHA-256 encodes 512 bits of data.  So the the process 
of encoding (2**512)+1 distinct inputs incurs a collision in 
SHA-256 space as soon as you've hit (2**512)+1 if not earlier.

to start you off:

   sha_backmap = {}
   for i in xrange((2**512)+2):
     hash = sha(str(i))
     if hash in sha_backmap:
       print "Collision found: %i and %i" % (
         i, sha_backmap[hash])
         break
     sha_backmap[hash] = i

Though it might take a computer the size of the universe, so I'm 
guessing that the first collision encountered is with "42".  I 
leave the actual calculation and hashing of all possible 
combinations of 513 bits of data as an exercise to the reader 
with a lot of time on their hands or a quantum computer under 
their desk ;-)

> It is hard to tell in advance. However, we can add some timing limit
> or counting limit, to make it an algorithm, which can halt. For
> example, whenever the program outputs more than 1000000 expressions
> that match the input regex, we can halt because that exceeds our
> limit. But surely this is not efficient because of the post-decision.

As mentioned, it sounds like you either want a depth-first of the 
solution space that raises exceptions on an infinite/unbounded 
operator ("*", "+", and "{N,}" as mentioned in another email), or 
if you want to handle those operators, do a breadth-first search 
of the solution-space and track your depth (or time taken, or 
previous number of multi-factor atoms if you desire) to ensure 
you don't exceed a certain depth.  But you're still talking a 
combinatorial number of solutions for even simple regexps.

-tkc




From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb  7 08:57:31 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 07:57:31 -0600
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
	<4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EC6CB.8090800@tim.thechases.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Tim Chase wrote:
>> And to answer those who are reaching for other non-regex (whether string
>> translations or .replace(), or pyparsing) solutions, it depends on what
>> you want to happen in pathological cases like
>>
>>   s = """Dangling closing]
>>      with properly [[nested]] and
>>      complex [properly [nested] text]
>>      and [improperly [nested] text
>>      and with some text [straddling
>>      lines] and with
>>      dangling opening [brackets
>>      """
>> where you'll begin to see the differences.
>>
> Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
> replacement operation fail?

Failure is only defined in the clarified context of what the OP 
wants :)  Replacement operations only fail if the OP's desired 
output from the above mess doesn't change *all* of the ]/[ 
characters, but only those with some form of parity (nested or 
otherwise).  But if the OP *does* want all of the ]/[ characters 
replaced regardless of contextual nature, then yes, replace is a 
much better solution than regexps.

-tkc




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 09:11:41 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:11:41 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>

>> LOL
>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>
> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.

I don't think we need to worry about other communities or every
internet related problem. The only thing we need to make sure is that
c.l.p or the python community in general is friendly, tolerant,
healthy and perhaps shows a good example to other communities on how
to run a community, including how to handle problematic behavior.

> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
> much of that kind of nonsense.

I don't think you get my point. Rehabilitation or cure is not the goal
here. A village clown or court clown never changed, never got cured,
never got reintroduced into the community as a 'normal' person. A
village clown is tolerated in the purest form of the word 'tolerance'
by nor wishing him to change. Let him be the clown, let everybody
accept him as such, including all the annoyance and weird behavior.
Hoping for someone to change is the same as assigning him to a
correctional facility.

I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only
people should do who don't like him is ignoring him. What is very
important is that there can be only one PCJ and everybody else with
objectionable behavior will be banned, blacklisted, etc. with the full
force of available methods.

This would I think send a very clear message to all other online
communities that the Python Community is able to think outside the
box, and is not afraid of taking unusual steps to maintain a healthy
community and is even able to incorporate revolutionary new tactics to
keep the community friendly and tolerant.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 09:14:42 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:14:42 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002070614x12197972heac398160f1791c0@mail.gmail.com>

>>> LOL
>>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>>
>> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
>> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.
>
> I don't think we need to worry about other communities or every
> internet related problem. The only thing we need to make sure is that
> c.l.p or the python community in general is friendly, tolerant,
> healthy and perhaps shows a good example to other communities on how
> to run a community, including how to handle problematic behavior.
>
>> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
>> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
>> much of that kind of nonsense.
>
> I don't think you get my point. Rehabilitation or cure is not the goal
> here. A village clown or court clown never changed, never got cured,
> never got reintroduced into the community as a 'normal' person. A
> village clown is tolerated in the purest form of the word 'tolerance'
> by nor wishing him to change. Let him be the clown, let everybody
> accept him as such, including all the annoyance and weird behavior.
> Hoping for someone to change is the same as assigning him to a
> correctional facility.
>
> I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
> short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
> in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
> retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only
> people should do who don't like him is ignoring him. What is very
> important is that there can be only one PCJ and everybody else with
> objectionable behavior will be banned, blacklisted, etc. with the full
> force of available methods.
>
> This would I think send a very clear message to all other online
> communities that the Python Community is able to think outside the
> box, and is not afraid of taking unusual steps to maintain a healthy
> community and is even able to incorporate revolutionary new tactics to
> keep the community friendly and tolerant.

One more thing: if every online community (or only  programming
related newsgroup) would designate an XY Community Jester I believe
the relatively few number of serial trolls would all find their places
somewhere eventually. This approach would actually work and solve a
serious problem, as opposed to building more jails and more
correctional facilities.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From as at sci.fi  Sun Feb  7 09:30:52 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:30:52 +0200
Subject: merge stdin, stdout?
References: <68565855-cda5-4715-bb8b-aeddcb8678cb@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.1935.1265336437.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0ec3e55a-90b6-4d49-89b5-6a5721d366b5@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2027.1265433340.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c7d4719d-522c-4929-adf3-cc2173c109c1@u41g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg3hbptunhf.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

jonny lowe <jonny.lowe.12345 at gmail.com> writes:

> The result is the same as before. I've tested in fedora11.

I don't think script is the answer here, since it only stores what's
displayed on a terminal and your program's input comes from a file and
is not displayed on the terminal.

Simplest solution is probably that you have your program echo every
line of input. Maybe some hairy terminal trickery could be done?
Really more of a Linux question than python.


From darcy at druid.net  Sun Feb  7 09:48:45 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:48:45 -0500
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100207094845.4c448cf1.darcy@druid.net>

On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:11:41 +0100
Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
> short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
> in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
> retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only

Are you sure you aren't lobbying for the position for yourself?  I
think you have a shot based on this proposal.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Sun Feb  7 09:50:53 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:50:53 +0100
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<mailman.2089.1265547306.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>

Steve Holden wrote:


>> y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)
>> 
>> which should iterate as
>> 
>> Time=1,'a'
>> Time=2,'a'
>> Time=10,'b'
>> 
>> I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__)
>> and use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't
>> quite see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be
>> wrong here.
>> 
>> Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done.
>> The beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.
>> 
> In that case why not just assume that the timing of a sequence is
> relative to the current time unless the "align" argument is given?

Well that's pretty much what I'm doing. I just fail to see how I can do
this with bare itertools. Currently I am doing it in the following way:

When I call a Sequence as in s2(align=2) I create a new Sequence where
the "align" value is simply stored in an instance variable. 

When creating the sum of two sequences, I create a Sequence with a new
iter() method which first iterates over self and then over the second
Sequence. But each time it has to look up the "align" value of the
respective sequence and adjust "time" accordingly. 

Appending the two Sequences is the easy part, but adjusting time is the
difficult part. My impression was, that itertools can only help to
solve the first part.

I may be missing something obvious. If that's the case, please let me
know.








From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 10:08:51 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:08:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net> 
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2091.1265548122.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>


>
> And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
> RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
> when multiplied together, give that specific value.
>

I can tell you why is that. RSA-2048 has a composite of length less
than 2^2048, which is a product of two large primes. So one of its
factors cannot exceed 2^2047, and we can treat the multiplication as a
computation with constant complexity. So the time complexity of
enumerating 2^2048 strings is the same with factoring a composite with
length 2^2048 which is the product of two primes.

And obviously, whenever we successfully factor the composite, we can
calculate the Euler function of it. So that given any public key
(n,e), calculating the private key (n,d) is easy.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:10:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:10:15 -0500
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
In-Reply-To: <1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>	<mailman.2089.1265547306.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4B6ED7D7.6050106@holdenweb.com>

Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>> y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)
>>>
>>> which should iterate as
>>>
>>> Time=1,'a'
>>> Time=2,'a'
>>> Time=10,'b'
>>>
>>> I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__)
>>> and use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't
>>> quite see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be
>>> wrong here.
>>>
>>> Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done.
>>> The beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.
>>>
>> In that case why not just assume that the timing of a sequence is
>> relative to the current time unless the "align" argument is given?
> 
> Well that's pretty much what I'm doing. I just fail to see how I can do
> this with bare itertools. Currently I am doing it in the following way:
> 
> When I call a Sequence as in s2(align=2) I create a new Sequence where
> the "align" value is simply stored in an instance variable. 
> 
> When creating the sum of two sequences, I create a Sequence with a new
> iter() method which first iterates over self and then over the second
> Sequence. But each time it has to look up the "align" value of the
> respective sequence and adjust "time" accordingly. 
> 
> Appending the two Sequences is the easy part, but adjusting time is the
> difficult part. My impression was, that itertools can only help to
> solve the first part.
> 
> I may be missing something obvious. If that's the case, please let me
> know.
> 
Perhaps I am assuming too much of your simulation environment/player.

I presumed that there would be a global "current time" value that would
be passed into or available to the play method of the sequences. However
I can see that you might need something more complex if (e.g.) you want
to be able to start playing at an arbitrary point in time.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:10:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:10:15 -0500
Subject: new.instancemethod __iter__
In-Reply-To: <1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <2036837.yhpURs0z1y@beaureve.gmx.net>	<037de8e1$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<63288869.8iZ5tTOMcE@beaureve.gmx.net>	<mailman.2089.1265547306.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1458390.bWaDTVVBS2@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4B6ED7D7.6050106@holdenweb.com>

Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> 
>>> y = s1*2 + s2(align=10)
>>>
>>> which should iterate as
>>>
>>> Time=1,'a'
>>> Time=2,'a'
>>> Time=10,'b'
>>>
>>> I have no difficulty passing "align" to the object (using __call__)
>>> and use it while I furnish my own __iter__() method. However I don't
>>> quite see how I can do this with bare itertools, though I may be
>>> wrong here.
>>>
>>> Bare in mind that it is not only about somehow getting the job done.
>>> The beauty of the resulting syntax is also important.
>>>
>> In that case why not just assume that the timing of a sequence is
>> relative to the current time unless the "align" argument is given?
> 
> Well that's pretty much what I'm doing. I just fail to see how I can do
> this with bare itertools. Currently I am doing it in the following way:
> 
> When I call a Sequence as in s2(align=2) I create a new Sequence where
> the "align" value is simply stored in an instance variable. 
> 
> When creating the sum of two sequences, I create a Sequence with a new
> iter() method which first iterates over self and then over the second
> Sequence. But each time it has to look up the "align" value of the
> respective sequence and adjust "time" accordingly. 
> 
> Appending the two Sequences is the easy part, but adjusting time is the
> difficult part. My impression was, that itertools can only help to
> solve the first part.
> 
> I may be missing something obvious. If that's the case, please let me
> know.
> 
Perhaps I am assuming too much of your simulation environment/player.

I presumed that there would be a global "current time" value that would
be passed into or available to the play method of the sequences. However
I can see that you might need something more complex if (e.g.) you want
to be able to start playing at an arbitrary point in time.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 10:22:55 2010
From: fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com (Jordan Uchima)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 09:22:55 -0600
Subject: still having problems with "Nim". using python 2.6.4
Message-ID: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>

I have attached the file that the game is on. feel free to modify it to make
it better. all suggestions are welcome. if you don't want to download the
file then here's the code:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Start with thirteen pieces and two players.
# Each player takes 1 - 4 pieces each turn.
# Player who takes the last piece loses.


# Declare constants.
NUMBER_OF_PLAYERS = 2
TOTAL_PIECES_AT_START = 13
namePlayer1 = raw_input("Hello Player 1, what is your name?\n")
namePlayer2 = raw_input("Hello Player 2, what is your name?\n")
# Declare functions.

def rules():
    """Print the rules of the game."""
    print 'The player that takes the last piece loses!'\
          'You can only take 1 - 4 pieces!\n\n'

def get_players():
    """Get the names of the players."""
    # Let's put the player's names in a list.
    players = []
    # Looping like this saves us repeating lines of code for each player.
    for player in range(NUMBER_OF_PLAYERS):

        players.append(player)
        break
    return players

def take_turn(player):
    """Handle a player's turn."""
    # Turn logic goes here.

player1Choice = int(raw_input(namePlayer1 + " how many pieces would you like
to take?\n")),
player2Choice = int(raw_input(namePlayer2 + " how many pieces would you like
to take?\n"))
playerChoice = player1Choice and player2Choice
x = 13 - playerChoice
loss = x <=2 and x >= 0,
while player1Choice == loss is True:
    print namePlayer1 + " loses!"
while player2Choice == loss is True:
    print namePlayer2, loss
while player1Choice and player2Choice == loss is True:
    print "It's a draw!"
while player1Choice != loss is True:
    print x
while player2Choice != loss is True:
    print x
while player1Choice and player2Choice != loss is True:
    print ("Keep going! Only ", x, " pieces left!")
validChoice = \
player1Choice == range(1, 4) is True,
print x
player1Choice == range(1, 4) is False,
print validChoice
player2Choice == range(1, 4) is True,
print x
player2Choice == range(1, 4) is False,
print validChoice


def main():
    """Run the game."""
    # Display the rules by calling rules function.
    rules()
    # Get the players by calling the get_players function.
    players = get_players()
    # Set up the game.
    remaining_pieces = TOTAL_PIECES_AT_START
    playing = True
    # Main loop - let's play!
    while playing:
        # Take turns.
        for player in players:
            remaining_pieces = take_turn(player)
            # Check if this player has lost.
            if remaining_pieces <= 1:
                # Player has taken last piece.
                print 'Sorry ', loser, ' you have lost.'
                # Break out of the loop
                playing = False
                break


# Automatically run main function if we're run as a script.
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

# End.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my problem is that i can't get it to make the players have more than 1 turn
each, it accepts any value for playerChoice, (it is only supposed to accept
values from 1 to 4), and "x" resets after each turn. i can get it to
subtract playerChoice from "x", and display the result, which should be "x",
but, then, "x" resets... by the way, i need this program finished by
wednesday, Feb.  10, 2010. Please help me!!!


--

Jordan (fuzzy.666.chaos at gmail.com)
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:38:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:38:38 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2091.1265548122.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EDE7E.7020304@holdenweb.com>

hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>> And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
>> RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
>> when multiplied together, give that specific value.
>>
> 
> I can tell you why is that. RSA-2048 has a composite of length less
> than 2^2048, which is a product of two large primes. So one of its
> factors cannot exceed 2^2047, and we can treat the multiplication as a
> computation with constant complexity. So the time complexity of
> enumerating 2^2048 strings is the same with factoring a composite with
> length 2^2048 which is the product of two primes.
> 
> And obviously, whenever we successfully factor the composite, we can
> calculate the Euler function of it. So that given any public key
> (n,e), calculating the private key (n,d) is easy.
> 
So all I have to do to break RSA is to count to 2^2048?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:38:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:38:38 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2091.1265548122.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EDE7E.7020304@holdenweb.com>

hzhuo1 at gmail.com wrote:
>> And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
>> RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
>> when multiplied together, give that specific value.
>>
> 
> I can tell you why is that. RSA-2048 has a composite of length less
> than 2^2048, which is a product of two large primes. So one of its
> factors cannot exceed 2^2047, and we can treat the multiplication as a
> computation with constant complexity. So the time complexity of
> enumerating 2^2048 strings is the same with factoring a composite with
> length 2^2048 which is the product of two primes.
> 
> And obviously, whenever we successfully factor the composite, we can
> calculate the Euler function of it. So that given any public key
> (n,e), calculating the private key (n,d) is easy.
> 
So all I have to do to break RSA is to count to 2^2048?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:46:34 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:46:34 -0500
Subject: still having problems with "Nim". using python 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EE05A.8080100@holdenweb.com>

Jordan Uchima wrote:
> I have attached the file that the game is on. feel free to modify it to
> make it better. all suggestions are welcome. if you don't want to
> download the file then here's the code:
> 
[...]
> 
> my problem is that i can't get it to make the players have more than 1
> turn each, it accepts any value for playerChoice, (it is only supposed
> to accept values from 1 to 4), and "x" resets after each turn. i can get
> it to subtract playerChoice from "x", and display the result, which
> should be "x", but, then, "x" resets... by the way, i need this program
> finished by wednesday, Feb.  10, 2010. Please help me!!!
> 
The deadline implies an even higher probability that this is homework. I
don't know whether you declared this in your earlier post, but it's
always as well to do so. You've made a substantial effort to solve the
problem though, so I don't mind trying to help. I hope you regard the
following as helpful.

You need a program structure that keeps going until the required
termination condition is reached. One such structure would be:

    while sticks_remaining > 1:
        taketurn(next_player())

So now you only need a next_player() function that returns alternate
values on successive calls and a taketurn() function that reduces the
number of sticks according to the instructions form the given player.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 10:46:34 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:46:34 -0500
Subject: still having problems with "Nim". using python 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1b07ab151002070722g17630b26y3eb6722918e4fd97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6EE05A.8080100@holdenweb.com>

Jordan Uchima wrote:
> I have attached the file that the game is on. feel free to modify it to
> make it better. all suggestions are welcome. if you don't want to
> download the file then here's the code:
> 
[...]
> 
> my problem is that i can't get it to make the players have more than 1
> turn each, it accepts any value for playerChoice, (it is only supposed
> to accept values from 1 to 4), and "x" resets after each turn. i can get
> it to subtract playerChoice from "x", and display the result, which
> should be "x", but, then, "x" resets... by the way, i need this program
> finished by wednesday, Feb.  10, 2010. Please help me!!!
> 
The deadline implies an even higher probability that this is homework. I
don't know whether you declared this in your earlier post, but it's
always as well to do so. You've made a substantial effort to solve the
problem though, so I don't mind trying to help. I hope you regard the
following as helpful.

You need a program structure that keeps going until the required
termination condition is reached. One such structure would be:

    while sticks_remaining > 1:
        taketurn(next_player())

So now you only need a next_player() function that returns alternate
values on successive calls and a taketurn() function that reduces the
number of sticks according to the instructions form the given player.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb  7 11:00:27 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Feb 2010 08:00:27 -0800
Subject: threading+popen2 hang
References: <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkmo2r$65o$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf at d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
lofic  <louis.coilliot at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Works fine on RHEL5/python 2.4.3
>Hangs on RHEL4/python 2.3.4

Then use Python 2.4 -- surely you don't expect anyone to provide bugfixes
for a release that's several years old?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb  7 11:24:04 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Feb 2010 08:24:04 -0800
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
References: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1787.1265117353.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkmpf4$l0p$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1787.1265117353.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Chris Rebert  <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:24 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
>> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?
>>
>> I googled but found nothing.
>
>Er...: http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html
>It's the third hit for "python readline".
>
>Actually reading the page, sounds like you want readline.insert_text()
>specifically.

That seems a tad harsh, especially after reading the docs and following
Peter Otten's link.  It's not at all obvious how to actually use
insert_text(), and although I probably could have figured it out on my
own, I might well have posted here myself.  Did you try using
insert_text() before posting?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 11:31:12 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 16:31:12 GMT
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2090.1265547435.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00f87008$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:57:13 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it makes him happy.

Why should we care about his happiness if it comes at the expense of the 
happiness of hundreds of other people?

I mean, if he decided that his happiness was best satisfied by following 
you home one day and smashing all your windows and pouring tar all over 
your furniture and smearing excrement over your clothes, should we 
tolerate that because it makes him happy?


And later, in another post:

> A village clown is tolerated in the purest form of the word 'tolerance'
> by nor wishing him to change. Let him be the clown, let everybody
> accept him as such, including all the annoyance and weird behavior.

Why should we? What's in it for us?


> Hoping for someone to change is the same as assigning him to a
> correctional facility.

That's a ridiculous comparison, which could only have been spoken to 
somebody who has never been in prison. You trivialise the problem of the 
punishment society by equating it to expecting a modicum of polite 
behaviour in public.


> I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
> short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
> in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
> retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only
> people should do who don't like him is ignoring him. What is very
> important is that there can be only one PCJ and everybody else with
> objectionable behavior will be banned, blacklisted, etc. with the full
> force of available methods.

Why should Xah Lee get special treatment? If other anti-social nuisances 
and trolls are banned, why should he get the privilege of being tolerated 
no matter what he does?

What is so special about Xah Lee that he gets carte blanche permission to 
be as obnoxious as he wants, while everyone else has to follow the rules 
of polite society?


-- 
Steven


From ldl08 at gmx.net  Sun Feb  7 12:07:33 2010
From: ldl08 at gmx.net (David)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:07:33 +0800
Subject: Your impression of for-novice writings on assertions
In-Reply-To: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hka3e2$rbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B6EF355.1040405@gmx.net>

Hi Alf,

I think you talk too much... :-) Basically I am all for a verbose 
approach in a text for beginners, but on the other hand it is necessary 
to stick to the point you are making.
When, for example, you introduce your reader to the thoughts of Francis 
Glassborrow on page 5 of chapter three, then the only relevant point you 
are making is the following: "Many programmers hide the structure of 
their code behind their comments [which is to be avoided]". If you 
insist on a proper citation here, then use a footnote, but even there I 
would suggest you merely offer the link. As it stands you are not to the 
point, and frankly, as a beginner I have enough stuff troubling my head 
so that I do not need superfluous information as to the evolution of the 
things you are talking about. Just the facts, please.

My 2 cents,

David



On 03/02/10 04:54, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I've started on ch 3 of my beginner's intro to programming, now delving
> into the details of the Python language.
>
> It's just a few pages yet, file [03 asd.pdf] (no real title yet!) at
> <url: http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> which is at Google Docs.
>
> The first topic is about assertions and exceptions. I wonder whether
> this text is easy or difficult to understand for a beginner. Or any
> improvements that could be made.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf



From john at castleamber.com  Sun Feb  7 12:38:51 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 11:38:51 -0600
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com> <hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<fbe2e2101002070611h406101aar43d97aac1a62ad5a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2105.1265552084.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87eikx54k4.fsf@castleamber.com>

Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com> writes:

> One more thing: 

Yeah, one more thing: since you are all for a better community why not
reply without quoting the entire message? Just quote enough to
provide some decent context.

Xah is just a spammer. It amazes me how often people want to step in the
role of Xah's sockpuppet.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Feb  7 13:20:25 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:20:25 -0500
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkmcbb$1ea$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
	<hkmcbb$1ea$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkn095$358$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/7/2010 7:39 AM, Steve Holden wrote:

> Clearly written by someone who has never *used* a mechanical typewriter.
> The original mechanisms had "tab set" and "tab clear" keys, so you had
> variable tabbing according to the needs of the particular document you
> were working on. Look under "T" in
>
>    http://www.mytypewriter.com/explorelearn/glossary.html
>
> if you aren't old enough to have used one.

I did start with real typewriters. The 'standard', if anything, was 1/2" 
for paragraph indents. That was 5 chars with normal 10 cpi type, 6 with 
12 cpi 'elite' type. I used both. I always thought the 8 char unix 
indent to be excessive. If a power of 2 was needed, rounding 5 down to 4 
would have been more sensible.

Wordperfect, which I wrote a couple of books with, followed the 
typewriter model in defaulting tab stops to every 1/2 inch, regardless 
of font. Sensible software tab defaults were not pioneered by Microsoft.

Terry Jan Reedy



From darnzen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 13:24:40 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:24:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WCK and PIL
References: <1fbe5e4b-2179-410b-9f76-9d65a7a08dce@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.07.04.19.19.109000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <28dee2e8-25a1-4f1d-901e-d8f7d0417e0a@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 10:19?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:05:53 -0800, darnzen wrote:
> > I've written an app using thewcklibrary (widget construction kit,
> > seehttp://www.effbot.org), in addition to the wckGraph module. What
> > I'd like to do, is take the output of one of my windows (happens to be
> > a graph), and save it as a *.png or *.gif. I was planning on using the
> >PILfor this. I'd like to use the code I have as is, without re-
> > writing all the graphic calls to usePILmethods.
>
> >WCKuses its own "pixmap" class for storing images in memory. I can't
> > find any documentation or class reference for pixmap and what I find
> > in the source is confusing.
>
> AWCKpixmap is a "draw object" whose underlying drawable is a pixmap
> (i.e. a Tk pixmap, which is the platform's native "chunk of video memory"
> pixmap type) rather than a window.
>
> From the source code,WCKdoesn't appear to offer any way to retrieve the
> pixel data (i.e. there's no way to do the opposite of draw.paste()).

I found a description of how to use a WCK drawing interface to draw
into a PIL image. (http://effbot.org/zone/pil-draw-wck.htm) but I'm
not sure how to use that class (SimpleDraw) to allow me to use
existing WCK code. Should I use it as a "mix in" to overwrite base
methods via inheritance?

class MyClass(SimpleDraw, Widget):
     pass



From rikutheronin at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 13:36:10 2010
From: rikutheronin at gmail.com (Pablo Recio Quijano)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:36:10 +0100
Subject: Checking the coding style
Message-ID: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the document
PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].

Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style guide?
I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and scripts that
checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to clean the code.

Thanks in advance!

[1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
[2] http://drupal.org/coding-standards

-- 
Pablo Recio Quijano

Estudiante de Ingenier?a Inform?tica (UCA)
Alumno colaborador del Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
Participante del IV Concurso Universitario de Software Libre
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From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:02:30 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:02:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
Message-ID: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
would be the best way around this?  Thanks!


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:17:19 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:17:19 -0500
Subject: Checking the coding style
In-Reply-To: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002071117n18ba7b47j515d75946b79af0f@mail.gmail.com>

pylint and pychecker are good options

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Pablo Recio Quijano
<rikutheronin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the document
> PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].
> Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style guide?
> I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and scripts that
> checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to clean the code.
> Thanks in advance!
> [1]?http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
> [2]?http://drupal.org/coding-standards
>
> --
> Pablo Recio Quijano
>
> Estudiante de Ingenier?a Inform?tica (UCA)
> Alumno colaborador del Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
> Participante del IV Concurso Universitario de Software Libre
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



-- 
Gerald Britton


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:17:40 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:17:40 -0800
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
In-Reply-To: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002071117p139f00bx19362eaf72a8d037@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 11:02 AM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
> an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
> service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
> would be the best way around this?  Thanks!
>

I don't know what your specific issue is, but here's some tips for running
Python as a service on windows which are not always immediately obvious and
can cause failures:

- The search path is screwy: if you are importing a module that happens to
be the same name as a dll in system32 (even if this isn't at all a python
dll), it can get confused.
- There is *no* sys.stdout! This is a big one. If any piece of code you're
using ever does 'print', the whole thing can crash hard. I replace
sys.stdout and sys.stderr with a fake file-like object that catches errors
in attempting to .write to the real one and ignores them.

If neither of those two are a problem for you, you need to define "no luck"
before anyone will be able to help you. Are there errors in the event
viewer? Are you getting an exception that's killing out your service
(capture and write to a file with the logging module)? Or is the Popen call
being run and returning but just not doing anything (in which case, try
capturing output from the command and see if it indicates an error message
from plink.exe). Etc.

--S
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From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:22:26 2010
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:22:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Checking the coding style
References: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkn3ti$gng$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:36:10 +0100, Pablo Recio Quijano wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the
> document PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].
> 
> Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style
> guide? I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and
> scripts that checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to
> clean the code.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ [2]
> http://drupal.org/coding-standards

Hello Pablo,

The pep8 package (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep8) can do this, though 
I have never used it myself.  PyLint is a customisable static analysis
program that checks style among other things.

Cheers,

Kev



From rikutheronin at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:27:45 2010
From: rikutheronin at gmail.com (Pablo Recio Quijano)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:27:45 +0100
Subject: Checking the coding style
In-Reply-To: <5d1a32001002071117n18ba7b47j515d75946b79af0f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<5d1a32001002071117n18ba7b47j515d75946b79af0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1fb1c371002071127u8cf0bf2w3eeef60c03bf6868@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!

Pylint was what i was loking for

2010/2/7 Gerald Britton <gerald.britton at gmail.com>

> pylint and pychecker are good options
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Pablo Recio Quijano
> <rikutheronin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the
> document
> > PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].
> > Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style
> guide?
> > I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and scripts
> that
> > checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to clean the code.
> > Thanks in advance!
> > [1] http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/
> > [2] http://drupal.org/coding-standards
> >
> > --
> > Pablo Recio Quijano
> >
> > Estudiante de Ingenier?a Inform?tica (UCA)
> > Alumno colaborador del Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
> > Participante del IV Concurso Universitario de Software Libre
> >
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gerald Britton
>



-- 
Pablo Recio Quijano

Estudiante de Ingenier?a Inform?tica (UCA)
Alumno colaborador del Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
Participante del IV Concurso Universitario de Software Libre
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From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 14:59:40 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 11:59:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Checking the coding style
References: <1fb1c371002071036n6abcf519x4b636162461c5c9c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2119.1265570571.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4f2ae5b7-1b4e-46cc-94ae-e70b3099ea7a@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 8:22?pm, Kev Dwyer <kevin.p.dw... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:36:10 +0100, Pablo Recio Quijano wrote:
> > Hi!
>
> > I'm finishing a project writen in Python, and I realize about the
> > document PEP8 - Style Guide for Python Code [1].
>
> > Is there any app or script that checks if my project pass that style
> > guide? I also worked with Drupal, and I know there is some modules and
> > scripts that checks its coding standars [2] and it's very usefull to
> > clean the code.
>
> > Thanks in advance!
>
> > [1]http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/[2]
> >http://drupal.org/coding-standards
>
> Hello Pablo,
>
> The pep8 package (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pep8) can do this, though
> I have never used it myself. ?PyLint is a customisable static analysis
> program that checks style among other things.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kev

I've used pep8.py myself for some Python 3.x projects, and it's pretty
good. You don't need to install it either, a simple call via python
pep8.py 'yourpythonfile.py' should do.

I think PyLint can be used for Python 2.x, but I'm not sure about 3.x.


From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Feb  7 15:45:59 2010
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (duncan smith)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:45:59 +0000
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
In-Reply-To: <00f7c75e$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
	<00f7c75e$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkn8q7$10gs$1@energise.enta.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:02:05 +0000, duncan smith wrote:
> 
>> The precise issue is that I'm supplying a default value of
>> 2.2250738585072014e-308 for a parameter (finishing temperature for a
>> simulated annealing algorithm) in an application.  I develop on
>> Ubuntu64, but (I am told) it's too small a value when run on a Win32
>> server.  I assume it's being interpreted as zero and raising an
>> exception.  Thanks.
> 
> I'm trying to think of what sort of experiment would be able to measure 
> temperatures accurate to less than 3e-308 Kelvin, and my brain boiled.
> 
> Surely 1e-100 would be close enough to zero as to make no practical 
> difference? Or even 1e-30? Whatever you're simulating surely isn't going 
> to require 300+ decimal points of accuracy.
> 
> I must admit I'm not really familiar with simulated annealing, so I could 
> be completely out of line, but my copy of "Numerical Recipes ..." by 
> Press et al has an example, and they take the temperature down to about 
> 1e-6 before halting. Even a trillion times lower that that is 1e-15.
> 
> 

It depends on the optimisation problem, but I suppose the fitness 
functions could be tweaked.  I could paste the actual code if anyone's 
interested, but the following pseudo-python gives the idea.  For an 
exponential cooling schedule the temperatures are generated as below. 
The lower the final temperature the greater the number of iterations, 
and the longer the algorithm spends searching locally for an optimal 
solution (having already searched more widely for areas of high fitness 
at higher temperatures).  The probability of moving to a less fit 
solution is given by exp(dF/temp) where dF is a (negative) change in 
fitness and temp is the current temperature.  So I could scale the 
fitness function to cope with higher finishing temperatures.

I'm going to have to think about the point raised by Steve (Holden).

I also think I can probably improve on raising StopIteration if 
exp(dF/temp) overflows by yielding False instead (although if it does 
overflow it probably indicates a poor choice of cooling schedule for the 
given problem).  Stuff to think about.  Cheers.

Duncan


import random
import math

def temps(start, final, mult):
     t = start
     while t > final:
         yield t
         t *= mult

def sim_anneal(permuter, start, final, mult):
     rand = random.random
     exp = math.exp
     for temp in temps(start, final, mult):
         dF = permuter.next()
         if dF >= 0:
             yield True
         else:
             try:
                 yield rand() < exp(dF / temp)
             except OverflowError:
                 raise StopIteration

class Permuter(object):
     def __init__(self, obj):
         self.obj = obj
	self.proposed = None

     def run(self, start, final, mult):
         for decision in sim_anneal(self, start, final, mult):
             if decision:
                 # commit proposed change to self.obj

     def next():
         # propose a change to self.obj
         # calculate and return the change in fitness
         self.proposed = proposed
         return dF


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:06:59 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:06:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: max / min / smallest float value on Python 2.5
References: <hkl2t1$ens$1@energise.enta.net>
	<mailman.2071.1265507750.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hklafd$rru$1@energise.enta.net>
	<00f7c75e$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<hkn8q7$10gs$1@energise.enta.net>
Message-ID: <11668ca0-0f7f-41d0-9f6b-2e9f6b6a02ea@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 8:45?pm, duncan smith <buzz... at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

[...]
> interested, but the following pseudo-python gives the idea. ?For an
[...]

> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?yield rand() < exp(dF / temp)

Practically speaking, the condition rand() < exp(dF / temp) is never
going to be satisfied if dF / temp < -40  (in fact, the output of
rand() is always an exact multiple of 2**-53, so the condition rand()
< exp(-40) is identical to the condition rand() == 0.0, which should
occur for one random sample out of every 9 thousand million million or
so).

So assuming that your fitness delta dF can't get smaller than 1e-16 or
so in absolute value (which seems reasonable, given that dF is
presumably the result of subtracting two numbers of 'normal'
magnitude), there would be little point having temp go much smaller
than, say, 1e-20.

IOW, I agree with Steven:  2.2e-308 seems extreme.

--
Mark


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:08:45 2010
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 21:08:45 GMT
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
In-Reply-To: <hkln4e$dl5$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<q1lbn.5995$pv.4400@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	<hkln4e$dl5$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <xZFbn.6150$pv.1073@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Aahz:

> BTW, in case anyone is confused, it's "svn blame" vs "cvs annotate".

   Possibly earlier versions of SVN only supported "blame" but the
variants "annotate", "ann", and "praise" all work with the version of
SVN (1.6.5) I have installed.

   Neil


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:25:21 2010
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:25:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Available for use: Tabs management software
Message-ID: <f8b13362-4abd-4a6c-af23-6a5f717c670f@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

In case someone else finds it useful here is a program I wrote a year
or so ago to help manage tab characters. It will convert tabs to runs
of spaces, convert runs of spaces to tabs, or count or check for tab
characters as required. It supports tab stops at regular and irregular
positions.

  http://codewiki.wikispaces.com/tabs.py

It is written in Python and you can either use it from the command
line or call the functions from another Python script. Documentation
is included on the web page.

James


From half.italian at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:43:02 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 11:02?am, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!

Try running/debugging your service from the commandline as
"<servicename> debug"  That should lead you to the error.

Otherwise, we need to see a traceback and some code to be better able
to help.

~Sean



From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:51:19 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 4:43?pm, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 11:02?am, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> > account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> > program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> > I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> > an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> > service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> > trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> > would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!
>
> Try running/debugging your service from the commandline as
> "<servicename> debug" ?That should lead you to the error.
>
> Otherwise, we need to see a traceback and some code to be better able
> to help.
>
> ~Sean

It's working fine when I run it via "<servicename> debug" - that's how
I was testing before.  It's when I start the service that it fails -
and you can see that, when you run it with debug, plink.exe runs under
my username.  When I run it as a service, it runs under System...


From ahleniusm at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:51:36 2010
From: ahleniusm at gmail.com (m_ahlenius)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: question on using tarfile to read a *.tar.gzip file
Message-ID: <0a75116c-345f-461c-a9d4-ae89edf556cf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a number of relatively large number *tar.gzip files to
process.  With the py module tarfile, I see that I can access and
extract them, one at a time to a temporary dir, but that of course
takes time.

All that I need to do is to read the first and last lines of each file
and then move on to the next one.  I am not changing anything in these
files - just reading.  The file lines are not fixed lengths either,
which makes it a bit more fun.

Is there a way to do this, without decompressing each file to a temp
dir?  Like is there a method using some tarfile interface adapter to
read a compressed file?  Otherwise I'll just access each file, extract
it,  grab the 1st and last lines and then delete the temp file.

thx

'mark


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:57:14 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:57:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net> 
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<1dc6c8d4-72c9-463d-a747-59387d19f4df@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2091.1265548122.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<04dfa894-bf5d-4aea-a093-5394d6b295ba@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2111.1265557213.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d9501d4e-f004-4531-a4fa-8904ab060189@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

That is a method called brute force. According to my computation,
2^2048=
32317006071311007300714876688669951960444102669715484032130345427524655138867890
89319720141152291346368871796092189801949411955915049092109508815238644828312063
08773673009960917501977503896521067960576383840675682767922186426197561618380943
38476170470581645852036305042887575891541065808607552399123930385521914333389668
34242068497478656456949485617603532632205807780565933102619270846031415025859286
41771167259436037184618573575983511523016459044036976132332872312271256847108202
09725157101726931323469678542580656697935045997268352998638215525166389437335543
602135433229604645318478604952148193555853611059596230656L

which is a very large number.

There are some other algorithms for factoring integers, including
Generalized number field sieve. And in quantum computing, there is an
algorithm called Shor, which is claimed to be a polynomial algorithm
if run under quantum computers. But seems that kind of computers
haven't been successfully built, or else RSA and many other security
mechanisms based on computation complexity cannot be used any longer.

What I need in my application is just to list all expressions that
match a particular regex, which I believe will be more efficient to
deal with if there is a general function for this purpose.
Unfortunately there is not such a function, so I will write my own
function to deal with my particular regex, which can be enumerated.

Sincerely,

Zhuo

On Feb 7, 10:38?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> hzh... at gmail.com wrote:
> >> And I really don't see how simple enumeration of range(2^2048) breaks
> >> RSA-2048, since that problem requires you to find two factors which,
> >> when multiplied together, give that specific value.
>
> > I can tell you why is that. RSA-2048 has a composite of length less
> > than 2^2048, which is a product of two large primes. So one of its
> > factors cannot exceed 2^2047, and we can treat the multiplication as a
> > computation with constant complexity. So the time complexity of
> > enumerating 2^2048 strings is the same with factoring a composite with
> > length 2^2048 which is the product of two primes.
>
> > And obviously, whenever we successfully factor the composite, we can
> > calculate the Euler function of it. So that given any public key
> > (n,e), calculating the private key (n,d) is easy.
>
> So all I have to do to break RSA is to count to 2^2048?
>
> regards
> ?Steve
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS: ? ? ? ?http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From half.italian at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 17:02:37 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:02:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b0340314-a7af-4798-9634-1855d0d9eac9@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>


>
> It's working fine when I run it via "<servicename> debug" - that's how
> I was testing before. ?It's when I start the service that it fails -
> and you can see that, when you run it with debug, plink.exe runs under
> my username. ?When I run it as a service, it runs under System...

You can have the service run as any user under the service
properties.  Perhaps set the service to run under your username?

There may be some environment variables set in your session that
aren't in the one its running as.  So maybe check there as well.

Off to drink beer.  Good luck.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 17:07:15 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Feb 2010 22:07:15 GMT
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>> that give the hexadecimal result
>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
> 
> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(

Oh, everybody expects parrots! That's not unexpected -- as a clue, I 
wrote that "the message is predictable for being totally unexpected".

The input was "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", which is another 
Monty Python catchphrase.


-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 17:14:39 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:14:39 +0100
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
In-Reply-To: <959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkne0i$304$2@news.eternal-september.org>

* T:
> On Feb 7, 4:43 pm, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 11:02 am, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
>>> account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
>>> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
>>> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
>>> an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
>>> service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
>>> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
>>> would be the best way around this?  Thanks!
>> Try running/debugging your service from the commandline as
>> "<servicename> debug"  That should lead you to the error.
>>
>> Otherwise, we need to see a traceback and some code to be better able
>> to help.
>>
>> ~Sean
> 
> It's working fine when I run it via "<servicename> debug" - that's how
> I was testing before.  It's when I start the service that it fails -
> and you can see that, when you run it with debug, plink.exe runs under
> my username.  When I run it as a service, it runs under System...

This sounds like a Windows programming problem, not anything related to Python 
per se.

Windows services are generally limited in what they can do, such as interaction 
with the  user, and I guess that spills over to network access.

Also, services need to interact with the service control manager, the "scum" as 
it's known. Well, all right, that's just what my coworkers and I called it once. 
But essentially, it's an even-driven execution model, which means that it might 
not work to use just any program, such as [python.exe], directly as a service.

The Windows Resource Kit used to have a facility for running ordinary programs 
as services. I'm not sure what it did at the technical level, but it worked. Or 
it appeared to work.

You might also find it useful to look up the documentation on services that 
interact with the user. In the old times that was mostly a matter of configuring 
which account the service ran under. But I think it all got more complicated 
with Microsoft's introduction of Terminal services (generally, most of the 
complication in modern Windows is due to the shift in focus about 1995, ditching 
the personal computer user market in favor of the enterprise and MIS market).

Cross-posted to [comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32], follow-ups set to that 
group  --  that means, unless overridden you won't see follow-ups in [c.l.p].

I think that group may give more informative and helpful responses.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Feb  7 17:52:38 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:52:38 -0800
Subject: passing string for editing in input()
In-Reply-To: <hkmpf4$l0p$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hk9917$bos$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.1787.1265117353.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkmpf4$l0p$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002071452o685d5054sc94b747676033cee@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> In article <mailman.1787.1265117353.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Chris Rebert ?<clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 5:24 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there an easy way to get an editing (readline) in Python that would
>>> contain string for editing and would not just be empty?
>>>
>>> I googled but found nothing.
>>
>>Er...: http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html
>>It's the third hit for "python readline".
>>
>>Actually reading the page, sounds like you want readline.insert_text()
>>specifically.
>
> That seems a tad harsh, especially after reading the docs and following
> Peter Otten's link. ?It's not at all obvious how to actually use
> insert_text(), and although I probably could have figured it out on my
> own, I might well have posted here myself. ?Did you try using
> insert_text() before posting?

No; I've never used the readline module for that matter. I was just
giving a (hopefully helpful) suggestion based on a quick scan of the
docs (hence the tentative "sounds like"). The OP's comment about
finding /nothing/ on Google made it sound as though they hadn't
located/checked the readline module docs. In retrospect, I might have
misinterpreted in that regard; but in my defense, if they did check
the docs, it might have been good to say so, and if they had found
insert_text(), they ought to have made their question more specific.

Cheers,
Chris


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb  7 18:01:24 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:01:24 -0600
Subject: question on using tarfile to read a *.tar.gzip file
In-Reply-To: <0a75116c-345f-461c-a9d4-ae89edf556cf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <0a75116c-345f-461c-a9d4-ae89edf556cf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F4644.60201@tim.thechases.com>

> Is there a way to do this, without decompressing each file to a temp
> dir?  Like is there a method using some tarfile interface adapter to
> read a compressed file?  Otherwise I'll just access each file, extract
> it,  grab the 1st and last lines and then delete the temp file.

I think you're looking for the extractfile() method of the 
TarFile object:

   from glob import glob
   from tarfile import TarFile
   for fname in glob('*.tgz'):
     print fname
     tf = TarFile.gzopen(fname)
     for ti in tf:
       print ' %s' % ti.name
       f = tf.extractfile(ti)
       if not f: continue
       fi = iter(f) # f doesn't natively support next()
       first_line = fi.next()
       for line in fi: pass
       f.close()
       print "  First line: %r" % first_line
       print "  Last line: %r" % line
     tf.close()

If you just want the first & last lines, it's a little more 
complex if you don't want to scan the entire file (like I do with 
the for-loop), but the file-like object returned by extractfile() 
is documented as supporting seek() so you can skip to the end and 
then read backwards until you have sufficient lines.  I wrote a 
"get the last line of a large file using seeks from the EOF" 
function which you can find at [1] which should handle the odd 
edge cases of $BUFFER_SIZE containing more or less than a full 
line and then reading backwards in chunks (if needed) until you 
have one full line, handling a one-line file, and other 
odd/annoying edge-cases.  Hope it helps.

-tkc

[1]
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-January/1186176.html




From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Feb  7 18:09:15 2010
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:09:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Available for use: Tabs management software
References: <f8b13362-4abd-4a6c-af23-6a5f717c670f@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5e9b7d2a-a1dc-4a73-a3f6-4acc4dcb6fc5@b10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 7 Feb, 21:25, James Harris <james.harri... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> In case someone else finds it useful here is a program I wrote a year
> or so ago to help manage tab characters. It will convert tabs to runs
> of spaces, convert runs of spaces to tabs, or count or check for tab
> characters as required. It supports tab stops at regular and irregular
> positions.
>
> ?http://codewiki.wikispaces.com/tabs.py
>
> It is written in Python and you can either use it from the command
> line or call the functions from another Python script. Documentation
> is included on the web page.

After posting this I realised the code had a dependence on a separate
debugging module. I've commented-out all such references and tested it
in isolation from other code. Everything behaved as it should so if
you download it you should find it just works. The only dependence is
on Python (i.e. Python 2.x; I gather 3.x needs print statements and
maybe other stuff to be changed). Any issues, feel free to post them
here.

James


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Feb  7 18:55:52 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:55:52 +0000
Subject: TABS in the CPython C source code
References: <hkkjjr$3ep$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.07.05.49.27.281000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.07.23.55.51.484000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 05:49:28 +0000, Nobody wrote:

>> The size-8 tabs look really bad in an editor configured with tab size 4,
>> as is common in Windows. I'm concluding that the CPython programmers
>> configure their Visual Studio's to *nix convention.
> 
> 8-column tabs aren't a "*nix convention"; that's been the norm since
> the mechanical typewriter.

Okay, as everyone has pointed out, it's not quite that old. I've seen
typewriters with fixed tabs, but I'm not certain that they were at 8
columns, and even if they were, it wasn't common enough to be a standard.




From as at sci.fi  Sun Feb  7 19:21:17 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:21:17 +0200
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg34olstw5e.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

Julian <mailings at julianmoritz.de> writes:

> I've asked this question at stackoverflow a few weeks ago, and to make
> it clear: this should NOT be a copy of the stackoverflow-thread
> "hidden features of Python".

Thanks for the hint, interesting stuff in there.

> For those guys would be a poster quite cool which describes the most
> popular and beloved python features.

For me as an electronics HW guy, I really like that I can easily
handle binary data without doing tedious and error prone shifting and
anding and oring.


From ahleniusm at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:25:50 2010
From: ahleniusm at gmail.com (m_ahlenius)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:25:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: question on using tarfile to read a *.tar.gzip file
References: <0a75116c-345f-461c-a9d4-ae89edf556cf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2124.1265583695.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <56cb4ae5-7a8d-4571-a9f2-57f3c7500664@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 5:01?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> > Is there a way to do this, without decompressing each file to a temp
> > dir? ?Like is there a method using some tarfile interface adapter to
> > read a compressed file? ?Otherwise I'll just access each file, extract
> > it, ?grab the 1st and last lines and then delete the temp file.
>
> I think you're looking for the extractfile() method of the
> TarFile object:
>
> ? ?from glob import glob
> ? ?from tarfile import TarFile
> ? ?for fname in glob('*.tgz'):
> ? ? ?print fname
> ? ? ?tf = TarFile.gzopen(fname)
> ? ? ?for ti in tf:
> ? ? ? ?print ' %s' % ti.name
> ? ? ? ?f = tf.extractfile(ti)
> ? ? ? ?if not f: continue
> ? ? ? ?fi = iter(f) # f doesn't natively support next()
> ? ? ? ?first_line = fi.next()
> ? ? ? ?for line in fi: pass
> ? ? ? ?f.close()
> ? ? ? ?print " ?First line: %r" % first_line
> ? ? ? ?print " ?Last line: %r" % line
> ? ? ?tf.close()
>
> If you just want the first & last lines, it's a little more
> complex if you don't want to scan the entire file (like I do with
> the for-loop), but the file-like object returned by extractfile()
> is documented as supporting seek() so you can skip to the end and
> then read backwards until you have sufficient lines. ?I wrote a
> "get the last line of a large file using seeks from the EOF"
> function which you can find at [1] which should handle the odd
> edge cases of $BUFFER_SIZE containing more or less than a full
> line and then reading backwards in chunks (if needed) until you
> have one full line, handling a one-line file, and other
> odd/annoying edge-cases. ?Hope it helps.
>
> -tkc
>
> [1]http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-January/1186176.html

Thanks Tim - this was very helpful.  Just learning about tarfile.

'mark


From escalation746 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 19:26:25 2010
From: escalation746 at yahoo.com (escalation746)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:26:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
Message-ID: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

I am having a heck of a time doing the simplest thing: installing
Python and the pywin extensions, including the PythonWin editor I have
always relied on, into my new Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OS. I
tried the Python package from python.org and pywin32 from sourceforge.
But the latter would not install, saying that it could not find Python
2.6 in the registry. And apparently it will not let me specify the
location of same, although a dialogue window tantalises me with blank
text boxes I cannot type into.

I then tried the 64-bit version of ActiveState's Python, but this
installed sans the PythonWin editor, apparently. At least I cannot
find it either in the Start menu or in the Python folder.

What am I missing? What have I not been told?

-- robin


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:55:05 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:55:05 -0800
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002071655h4a4076e7tb9f94e92a78a3273@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:26 PM, escalation746 <escalation746 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> I am having a heck of a time doing the simplest thing: installing
> Python and the pywin extensions, including the PythonWin editor I have
> always relied on, into my new Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OS. I
> tried the Python package from python.org and pywin32 from sourceforge.
> But the latter would not install, saying that it could not find Python
> 2.6 in the registry. And apparently it will not let me specify the
> location of same, although a dialogue window tantalises me with blank
> text boxes I cannot type into.
>

Saying, "the Python package from python.org" is insufficiently specific; are
you sure you got the 64-bit version of BOTH packages? If you install 64-bit
Python, any extensions must also be 64-bit.

If you look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/files/ you'll notice
separate builds for 64-bit, marked amd64. Are you sure you got the
pywin32-214.win-amd64-py2.6.exe and not the normal one?

Alternatively, you can just get the 32-bit version of both and install them.
But you can't mix and match, 32-bit one, 64-bit the other, in that case they
won't find each-other.

--S
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From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:57:01 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:57:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
References: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5b6da8b6-f814-4779-b7cb-b02762e16f2c@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 1:26?am, escalation746 <escalation... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am having a heck of a time doing the simplest thing: installing
> Python and the pywin extensions, including the PythonWin editor I have
> always relied on, into my new Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OS. I
> tried the Python package from python.org and pywin32 from sourceforge.
> But the latter would not install, saying that it could not find Python
> 2.6 in the registry. And apparently it will not let me specify the
> location of same, although a dialogue window tantalises me with blank
> text boxes I cannot type into.
>
> I then tried the 64-bit version of ActiveState's Python, but this
> installed sans the PythonWin editor, apparently. At least I cannot
> find it either in the Start menu or in the Python folder.
>
> What am I missing? What have I not been told?
>
> -- robin

Perhaps you've accidentally downloaded the wrong version of PythonWin?
I think this should be the one:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/files/pywin32/Build%20214/pywin32-214.win-amd64-py2.6.exe/download


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:57:36 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 16:57:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<b0340314-a7af-4798-9634-1855d0d9eac9@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <811dd4e9-6eea-4c1f-a24b-ba0179e57f84@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for the suggestions -  I think my next step is to try running
it under an admin user account, as you guys both mentioned.  Alf -
you're absolutely right, Microsoft has srvany.exe, which allows you to
run any EXE as a Windows service.  I've done this in the past, but
it's more of a "hack"..so this go around (since I will be distributing
this program), I wanted to go the more professional route..which,
unfortunately, involves learning the "scum". :)  I  posted this to
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32, so we'll see if what the Win32
programmers have to say as well.  Thanks again!



From escalation746 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  7 20:02:33 2010
From: escalation746 at yahoo.com (escalation746)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:02:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
References: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<5b6da8b6-f814-4779-b7cb-b02762e16f2c@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5cb36cc2-fe75-4542-af70-b33400fd4dea@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

> Perhaps you've accidentally downloaded the wrong version of PythonWin?

Erk, yes, my bad.

Thanks for the quick help! Though I still wonder why the ActiveState
build does not include this.

-- robin


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 20:05:39 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:05:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
Message-ID: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
missing.  I have a class Test, for example:

class Test:
    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
        self.param1 = param1
        self.param2 = param2
        self.param3 = param3

Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
value, not reference)?  I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
instance, I would have to do:

def changevalue():
    for key in mytest.keys():
        currentparam = mytest[key]
        param1 = currentparam.param1
        param2 = currentparam.param2
        param3 = currentparam.param3
        param3 = "newvalue"
        mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)

If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
be great!


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Feb  7 20:16:19 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:16:19 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002071716k26062ba9h640835149f34c6e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
> missing. ?I have a class Test, for example:
>
> class Test:
> ? ?def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
> ? ? ? ?self.param1 = param1
> ? ? ? ?self.param2 = param2
> ? ? ? ?self.param3 = param3
>
> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test. ?If
> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
> value, not reference)?

Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
of what Python does use.

> I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
> instance, I would have to do:
>
> def changevalue():
> ? ?for key in mytest.keys():
> ? ? ? ?currentparam = mytest[key]
> ? ? ? ?param1 = currentparam.param1
> ? ? ? ?param2 = currentparam.param2
> ? ? ? ?param3 = currentparam.param3
> ? ? ? ?param3 = "newvalue"
> ? ? ? ?mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)
>
> If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
> be great!

def changevalue():
    for test in mytest.values():
        test.param3 = "newvalue"

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 20:19:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:19:53 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F66B9.2060801@holdenweb.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
> 
> Oh, everybody expects parrots! That's not unexpected -- as a clue, I 
> wrote that "the message is predictable for being totally unexpected".
> 
> The input was "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", which is another 
> Monty Python catchphrase.
> 
> 
Bugger - Got everything except the trailing exclamation mark ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 20:19:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:19:53 -0500
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
In-Reply-To: <00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F66B9.2060801@holdenweb.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
> 
> Oh, everybody expects parrots! That's not unexpected -- as a clue, I 
> wrote that "the message is predictable for being totally unexpected".
> 
> The input was "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", which is another 
> Monty Python catchphrase.
> 
> 
Bugger - Got everything except the trailing exclamation mark ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 20:24:13 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 17:24:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e42a3812-9b07-4544-b944-ad0357d9ea5a@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 8:16?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
> > missing. ?I have a class Test, for example:
>
> > class Test:
> > ? ?def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
> > ? ? ? ?self.param1 = param1
> > ? ? ? ?self.param2 = param2
> > ? ? ? ?self.param3 = param3
>
> > Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test. ?If
> > I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
> > have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
> > value, not reference)?
>
> Incorrect; Python uses neither. Seehttp://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htmfor a excellent explanation
> of what Python does use.
>
> > I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
> > instance, I would have to do:
>
> > def changevalue():
> > ? ?for key in mytest.keys():
> > ? ? ? ?currentparam = mytest[key]
> > ? ? ? ?param1 = currentparam.param1
> > ? ? ? ?param2 = currentparam.param2
> > ? ? ? ?param3 = currentparam.param3
> > ? ? ? ?param3 = "newvalue"
> > ? ? ? ?mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)
>
> > If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
> > be great!
>
> def changevalue():
> ? ? for test in mytest.values():
> ? ? ? ? test.param3 = "newvalue"
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Thanks so much - this makes life a lot easier!  And a great reference
as well.

Cheers,
Doug


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 20:31:31 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:31:31 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hknpjd$8gq$1@ger.gmane.org>

T wrote:
> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
> 
> class Test:
>     def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>         self.param1 = param1
>         self.param2 = param2
>         self.param3 = param3
> 
> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
> value, not reference)?  I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
> instance, I would have to do:
> 
> def changevalue():
>     for key in mytest.keys():
>         currentparam = mytest[key]
>         param1 = currentparam.param1
>         param2 = currentparam.param2
>         param3 = currentparam.param3
>         param3 = "newvalue"
>         mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)
> 
> If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
> be great!

def changevalue():
    for key in mytest.keys():
        mytest[key].param3 = "newvalue"

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sun Feb  7 20:32:31 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:32:31 +0100
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>	<hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B6F69AF.8050200@sequans.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>   
>> LOL
>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>
>>     
> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.
>
> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
> much of that kind of nonsense.
>
> regards
>  Steve
>   
Actually for one Xah post I get, I then get 20 mails complaining about 
him. The fact is, for someone like me who subscribed  only to the python 
list (what's the purpose of subscribing the perl list when you know 
about python existence btw :o) ), the real annoying spam comes from the 
complains, not Xah. Speaking for myself, I may get 3 or 4 posts from Xah 
a month at most. Something I can live with.

So guys, just ignore him if you don't like him. Mailers & news readers 
have plenty of feature to make it happen.

Adding my contribution to complains...

JM



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb  7 20:48:21 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:48:21 +0000
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
In-Reply-To: <4B6F69AF.8050200@sequans.com>
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<hklnce$2n$1@panix5.panix.com>	<hkmbmp$v69$1@ger.gmane.org>	<fbe2e2101002070457k6da429ddhe846bfa3b9d506f0@mail.gmail.com>	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B6F69AF.8050200@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B6F6D65.7030408@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>  
>>> LOL
>>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>>
>>>     
>> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
>> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.
>>
>> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
>> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
>> much of that kind of nonsense.
>>
>> regards
>>  Steve
>>   
> Actually for one Xah post I get, I then get 20 mails complaining about 
> him. The fact is, for someone like me who subscribed  only to the python 
> list (what's the purpose of subscribing the perl list when you know 
> about python existence btw :o) ), the real annoying spam comes from the 
> complains, not Xah. Speaking for myself, I may get 3 or 4 posts from Xah 
> a month at most. Something I can live with.
> 
> So guys, just ignore him if you don't like him. Mailers & news readers 
> have plenty of feature to make it happen.
> 
> Adding my contribution to complains...
> 
Alternatively, add [XAH] to the subject in the replies so that they can
be filtered out easily. :-)


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 20:51:05 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:05 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Chris Rebert:
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>
>> class Test:
>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>        self.param1 = param1
>>        self.param2 = param2
>>        self.param3 = param3
>>
>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>> value, not reference)?
> 
> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
> of what Python does use.

Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to the 
point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.

Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.

There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to point 
out that in the Java language spec those reference values are called pointers, 
but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for Python, and isn't even 
well known among Java programmers. But that's just one extra little para.

One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.

Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.


>> I.e. if I wish to change just param3 of an
>> instance, I would have to do:
>>
>> def changevalue():
>>    for key in mytest.keys():
>>        currentparam = mytest[key]
>>        param1 = currentparam.param1
>>        param2 = currentparam.param2
>>        param3 = currentparam.param3
>>        param3 = "newvalue"
>>        mytest[key] = Test(param1, param2, param3)
>>
>> If there's an easier way to accomplish this that I'm missing, that'd
>> be great!
> 
> def changevalue():
>     for test in mytest.values():
>         test.param3 = "newvalue"

Cheers,

- Alf


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb  7 21:07:55 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:07:55 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B6F71FB.6060709@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Chris Rebert:
>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>
>>> class Test:
>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>
>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>> value, not reference)?
>>
>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>> of what Python does use.
> 
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to 
> the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
> 
> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to 
> point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are 
> called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for 
> Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's 
> just one extra little para.
> 
> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
> 
> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
> 
A reference is not the same as a pointer.

A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 21:21:11 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:21:11 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* MRAB:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Chris Rebert:
>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>
>>>> class Test:
>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>
>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>
>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>> of what Python does use.
>>
>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and 
>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>
>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words 
>> to point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are 
>> called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for 
>> Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's 
>> just one extra little para.
>>
>> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
>>
>> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
>>
> A reference is not the same as a pointer.

Depends on your choice terminology. I referred to the Java (language spec) 
terminology to make it clear.


> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.

Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 21:33:12 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 02:33:12 GMT
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-B0CB68.17230106022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<e7cd9065-cd77-4819-800e-45b8ef33ca99@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<037df4ef$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkl2qb$b37$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037e0381$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkla02$2m7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00f8becc$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2129.1265592075.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.08.02.33.10@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:19:53 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 03:53:49 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> 
>>>> "Given the function hashlib.sha256, enumerate all the possible inputs
>>>> that give the hexadecimal result
>>>> 0a2591aaf3340ad92faecbc5908e74d04b51ee5d2deee78f089f1607570e2e91."
>>> I tried some "parrot" variants but no dice. :-(
>> 
>> Oh, everybody expects parrots! That's not unexpected -- as a clue, I
>> wrote that "the message is predictable for being totally unexpected".
>> 
>> The input was "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!", which is
>> another Monty Python catchphrase.
>> 
>> 
> Bugger - Got everything except the trailing exclamation mark ...


NOBODY EXPECTS THE TRAILING EXCLAMATION MARK!!!




-- 
Steven


From schifschaf at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:00:40 2010
From: schifschaf at gmail.com (Schif Schaf)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:00:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com> <4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com> 
	<mailman.2103.1265551059.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <06a91472-3974-45d3-b86a-c3c9055a5831@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 8:57?am, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>
> > Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
> > replacement operation fail?
>
> Failure is only defined in the clarified context of what the OP
> wants :) ?Replacement operations only fail if the OP's desired
> output from the above mess doesn't change *all* of the ]/[
> characters, but only those with some form of parity (nested or
> otherwise). ?But if the OP *does* want all of the ]/[ characters
> replaced regardless of contextual nature, then yes, replace is a
> much better solution than regexps.
>

I need to do the usual "pipe text through and do various search/
replace" thing fairly often. The above case of having to replace
brackets with braces is only one example. Simple string methods run
out of steam pretty quickly and much of my work relies on using
regular expressions. Yes, I try to keep focused on simplicity, and
often regexes are the simplest solution for my day-to-day needs.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb  7 22:03:06 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:03:06 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hknuv5$j0t$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * MRAB:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Chris Rebert:
>>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>>
>>>>> class Test:
>>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>>
>>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>>
>>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>>> of what Python does use.
>>>
>>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
>>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>>
>>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>>
>>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words
>>> to point out that in the Java language spec those reference values
>>> are called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently)
>>> used for Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers.
>>> But that's just one extra little para.
>>>
>>> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by
>>> value.
>>>
>>> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
>>>
>> A reference is not the same as a pointer.
> 
> Depends on your choice terminology. I referred to the Java (language
> spec) terminology to make it clear.
> 
> 
>> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.
> 
Alf:

This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
real advantage.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:10:06 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:10:06 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002071910p462a2ddckc5d54de48cbeb97f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>
>> of what Python does use.
>>
>
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to
> the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>
> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>
> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to
> point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are called
> pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for Python, and
> isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's just one extra
> little para.



> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
>
> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
>

Sigh. Why does this always come up? And then someone makes a statement like
this, and now a /very/ long thread in which everyone argues semantics will
begin and sooner or later, the presence of the GIL will cause a Python civil
war, even though the GIL has nothing to do with anything related to this
conversation. Mark my words!

Python only passes by value if you use a non-standard definition of "value":
and the moment you do that, a whole bunch of people will start making weird
assumptions of Python's object and scoping semantics and all kinds of
confusion will occur. Or holy wars on words shall come to pass.

Python does not have pointers, it is not passing a pointer, it is passing an
object. The moment you start talking about passing pointers, people start
expecting things to work as if they -were- pointers. Python objects don't.

Python has names, and objects. It passes objects. Those objects get a new
name as a result. If the object is mutable, changes will be seen by the
caller. If the object is not, changes won't (because you're re-binding a
name, not changing an object).

Any attempt to apply any other sort of words or labels besides "names" and
"objects" to the situation is just going to confuse people and make them
think Python-is-LanguageXor Python-works-like-LanguageY.

Let the argument begin! Again.

--S
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From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sun Feb  7 22:11:10 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:11:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <79728aa8-073f-48c5-8162-fa57e9fefd69@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 6, 1:36?pm, "hzh... at gmail.com" <hzh... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am a fresh man with python. I know there is regular expressions in
> Python. What I need is that given a particular regular expression,
> output all the matches. For example, given ?[1|2|3]{2}? as the regular
> expression, the program should output all 9 matches, i.e., "11 12 13
> 21 22 23 31 32 33".
>
> Is there any well-written routine in Python or third-party program to
> do this? If there isn't, could somebody make some suggestions on how
> to write it myself?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Zhuo

Please check out this example on the pyparsing wiki, invRegex.py:
http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/invRegex.py.  This code
implements a generator that returns successive matching strings for
the given regex.  Running it, I see that you actually have a typo in
your example.

>>> print list(invert("[1|2|3]{2}"))
['11', '1|', '12', '13', '|1', '||', '|2', '|3', '21', '2|', '22',
'23', '31', '3|', '32', '33']

I think you meant either "[123]{2}" or "(1|2|3){2}".

>>> print list(invert("[123]{2}"))
['11', '12', '13', '21', '22', '23', '31', '32', '33']

>>> print list(invert("(1|2|3){2}"))
['11', '12', '13', '21', '22', '23', '31', '32', '33']

Of course, as other posters have pointed out, this inverter does not
accept regexen with unbounded multiple characters '+' or '*', but '?'
and "{min,max}" notation will work.  Even '.' is supported, although
this can generate a large number of return values.

Of course, you'll also have to install pyparsing to get this to work.

-- Paul


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 22:14:22 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 03:14:22 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.08.03.14.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:03:06 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Alf:
> 
> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
> real advantage.

Curse you Steve, I had just come up with a brilliant rebuttal of Alf's 
position. It was sheer genius, the sort of thing that would have James 
Gosling weeping with envy.

Oh well, into the bitbucket it goes...


-- 
Steven


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:18:33 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:18:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to the
> point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.

Must. Resist. Ad hominem.

> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>
> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-)

10 words _plus_ an understanding of Java. Do you really think its
appropriate to discuss Python's behaviour purely in terms of other
languages?

Further, you've managed to define Python's behaviour as being somehow
_both_ of the major evaluation strategies - calling a reference by
value - so you're asking people to understand two totally irrelevant
models just to avoid describing one in its own terms. Rather than
arguing about whether you have a 'value' or a 'reference', it's a lot
easier to explain that you're passing mutable & immutable objects
around. The behaviour is thus defined in terms of the object and _not_
in the calling model, and is far more consistent with object
references throughout the language. It also doesn't require reference
to other languages simply to define Python's model in terms of what it
isn't.


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb  7 22:27:07 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:27:07 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * MRAB:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>>> * Chris Rebert:
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> class Test:
>>>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>>>> of what Python does use.
>>>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
>>>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>>>
>>>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>>>
>>>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words
>>>> to point out that in the Java language spec those reference values
>>>> are called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently)
>>>> used for Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers.
>>>> But that's just one extra little para.
>>>>
>>>> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by
>>>> value.
>>>>
>>>> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
>>>>
>>> A reference is not the same as a pointer.
>> Depends on your choice terminology. I referred to the Java (language
>> spec) terminology to make it clear.
>>
>>
>>> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.
>> Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.
>>
> Alf:
> 
> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
> real advantage.

Well that's my point, and thanks for backing me up on that :-): it's very 
simple, and as demonstrated can be expressed in 10 words or less (plus perhaps a 
terminology reference, as I did above), so all that discussion and in particular 
the lengthy article at effbot serves as obfuscation and nothing else.

By the way, most every programming language has some corner like that, something 
that is utterly simple but somehow has some kind of obfuscation-meme attached.

In C++ it's "call" and "constructor". It doesn't help that the language's 
standard lays down the law on it, it doesn't help that the language's creator 
has laid down the law, it doesn't help that it's utterly and completely simple. 
Somehow newbies and even some experienced people manage to create their own 
terminological nightmare  and drawing conclusions about reality from that 
misguided obfuscated view, and then discussing it up and down and sideways.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From austin.brkich at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:56:39 2010
From: austin.brkich at gmail.com (7H3LaughingMan)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:56:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C/C++ Import
Message-ID: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
needs.

The program is running the following code...
PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );

This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
PyErr_Print())
ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager

I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
how to do a proper import?


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb  7 23:01:05 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 04:01:05 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:05 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.

How do I get a pointer in pure Python code (no ctypes)? I tried both 
Pascal and C syntax (^x and *x), but both give syntax errors.

For that matter, how do I get a pointer in Java code?

If Python doesn't have pointers, then why are you talking about Python 
passing pointers? It's a vacuous truth, like saying that Python passes 
dinosaurs by name.



-- 
Steven


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 23:15:52 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:15:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <0795c4c2-bfd4-4372-903e-a91e45b37d50@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

Oops, this one was my fault - the object I was having the issues with
was actually a shelve file, not a dictionary..so just re-assigning the
variable isn't working, but re-writing the object to the shelve file
does.  So in this case, is there any way to just change a single
value, or am I stuck rewriting the entry?


From cjstevens at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 00:08:33 2010
From: cjstevens at gmail.com (Chris Stevens)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:08:33 +1100
Subject: Python 2.4 and list of dictionary issues
Message-ID: <f37827421002072108gcf3629eo867359adf7433cd0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm a python newbie so please excuse me if I am missing something
simple here. I am writing a script which requires a list of
dictionaries (originally a dictionary of dictionaries, but I changed
it to a list to try and overcome the below problem).

Now my understanding is that you create the empty list, then append or
add entries to it. Correct?

Here is some code:

userInfo = []
...
userInfo.append( {
						'username' : uidString[0],
                                                ...
						'failedattempts' : int(0)
})

I'm not to sure on the bracketing here, but I have tried many
combinations. The issue here is that I get a "IndexError: list index
out of range" message on the line "userInfo.append( {"

I wrote this script on a box with Python 2.6 and it worked fine.
Moving it to a box with 2.4, and I get this error. I can't understand
why i'm getting a list index out of range error when trying to append
(not reference) a list?? I have also tried "+=", and
userInfo(len(userInfo))= .... just get the same error.

Could anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Chris


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 00:12:14 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 05:12:14 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.08.05.12.14@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:21:11 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.

Taken from Wikipedia:

"A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the more 
abstracted reference data type (although it is not as directly usable as 
a C++ reference)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)

In other words, a pointer is a specific type of reference. A reference in 
turn is an opaque but low-level data type which "refers to" in some way 
to the data you actually care about. (C++ has a concrete reference type, 
which is not to be confused with abstract references.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(computer_science)

Unless otherwise stated, references are opaque and coders need not care 
how the reference mechanism is implemented, see e.g.:

http://www.cocoabuilder.com/archive/cocoa/20777-opaque-reference.html

In Python you don't use references directly, there is no reference type 
or object. You can simulate the semantics of references (but not 
pointers) by putting your object in a list and passing the list around.



-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 00:12:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:12:50 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hko6go$8fo$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:05 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> How do I get a pointer in pure Python code (no ctypes)? I tried both 
> Pascal and C syntax (^x and *x), but both give syntax errors.

Well, I don't believe that you tried that. :-)

 From one point of view it's extremely easy: just create some object, even just 
type 42 as an integer literal, and you can apply all of Python's pointer 
operations to the result  --  which isn't much, basically just checking for 
pointer equality via 'is' or applying 'id' to get a value that represents the 
pointer uniquely, or copying the pointer via assignment or parameter passing.

Whether you can obtain the bits of the internal pointer value, represented as 
e.g. an int, formally depends on the Python implementation.

In CPython the 'id' function provides the internal pointer value as an int.

I.e., with CPython you can do

   def foo( o ):
       print( id( o ) )    # Shows the pointer value in decimal.

   whatever = 42
   print( id( whatever ) ) # Shows the pointer value in decimal.
   foo( whatever )         # Shows the exact *same* pointer value.

which at a slightly higher level of abstraction works just as well with any 
conceivable Python implementation, although you have no formal guarantee that 
the conceptual "pointer" values are actually the internally memory addresses.

But, in CPython they are, and you run into them all the time, for example (where 
the "at" tells you that it's a memory location specification, a pointer),

   >>> import turtle
   >>> turtle.forward
   <function forward at 0x00DB7D20>
   >>>
   >>> id( turtle.forward )
   14384416
   >>> hex( id( turtle.forward ) )
   '0xdb7d20'
   >>> _


> For that matter, how do I get a pointer in Java code?

As with Python, from one point of view it's extremely easy, just 'new' some 
object, and then you can apply all of Java's pure pointer operations to the 
result  --  which isn't much, basically just checking for pointer equality and 
copying a pointer via assignment or parameter passing.

In Java it's a pointer by definition, namely the language spec's definition.

 From another point of view, getting at the internal representation of the 
pointer is a bit harder in Java than in Python, at least as far as I know. It 
may not be practically possible. Disclaimer: I'm not a Java expert, and haven't 
used Java for years, and it just might be possible by using JNI (Java Native 
Interface), but that requires you to write a dynamic library in e.g. C or C++, 
and as I recall Java just creates a kind of fixed reference for the duration of 
a JNI call so the JNI side of things may not tell you anything about the Java 
side of things before or after the call.

But if it helps, just to learn about pointers in various languages you  --  or 
rather, some other reader, because I suspect that you know this already! :-) -- 
  might look at <url: http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/106/>.

It contains a simple pointers example expressed in four different languages, 
namely C, C++, Pascal and Java, in particular comparing C and Java.


> If Python doesn't have pointers, then why are you talking about Python 
> passing pointers? It's a vacuous truth, like saying that Python passes 
> dinosaurs by name.

See above.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From hzhuo1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 00:17:59 2010
From: hzhuo1 at gmail.com (hzhuo1 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:17:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<79728aa8-073f-48c5-8162-fa57e9fefd69@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <76609ff4-6579-4b2b-80b7-fb88bd5f1fa7@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>


>
> Please check out this example on the pyparsing wiki, invRegex.py:http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/invRegex.py. ?This code
> implements a generator that returns successive matching strings for
> the given regex. ?Running it, I see that you actually have a typo in
> your example.
>
> >>> print list(invert("[1|2|3]{2}"))
>
> ['11', '1|', '12', '13', '|1', '||', '|2', '|3', '21', '2|', '22',
> '23', '31', '3|', '32', '33']
>
> I think you meant either "[123]{2}" or "(1|2|3){2}".
>
> >>> print list(invert("[123]{2}"))
>
> ['11', '12', '13', '21', '22', '23', '31', '32', '33']
>
> >>> print list(invert("(1|2|3){2}"))
>
> ['11', '12', '13', '21', '22', '23', '31', '32', '33']
>
> Of course, as other posters have pointed out, this inverter does not
> accept regexen with unbounded multiple characters '+' or '*', but '?'
> and "{min,max}" notation will work. ?Even '.' is supported, although
> this can generate a large number of return values.
>
> Of course, you'll also have to install pyparsing to get this to work.
>
> -- Paul


Hi Paul,

Thanks very much. This is exactly what I need now. I will check this
function.

Zhuo



From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 00:18:14 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:18:14 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.08.05.12.14@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.08.05.12.14@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hko6qq$8fo$2@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:21:11 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> A pointer tells you where something is; a reference doesn't.
>> Sorry, I don't know of any relevant terminology where that is the case.
> 
> Taken from Wikipedia:
> 
> "A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the more 
> abstracted reference data type (although it is not as directly usable as 
> a C++ reference)."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)
> 
> In other words, a pointer is a specific type of reference. A reference in 
> turn is an opaque but low-level data type which "refers to" in some way 
> to the data you actually care about. (C++ has a concrete reference type, 
> which is not to be confused with abstract references.)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(computer_science)
> 
> Unless otherwise stated, references are opaque and coders need not care 
> how the reference mechanism is implemented, see e.g.:
> 
> http://www.cocoabuilder.com/archive/cocoa/20777-opaque-reference.html
> 
> In Python you don't use references directly, there is no reference type 
> or object. You can simulate the semantics of references (but not 
> pointers) by putting your object in a list and passing the list around.

Yes, sort of.

The last paragraph however confuses two different meanings of "reference".

So when using terms such as "reference" it helps to refer :-) to some specific 
terminology, unless that's clearly understood from context.


Cheers,

- Alf


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 00:23:51 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Feb 2010 21:23:51 -0800
Subject: python admin abuse complaint
References: <0c535d15-967d-4909-a9bb-b5970818199f@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002070515j33b6cc6fnf2c0935b443797d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkmfk8$a33$2@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2130.1265592763.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hko757$4ap$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2130.1265592763.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Jean-Michel Pichavant  <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
>
>So guys, just ignore him if you don't like him. Mailers & news readers 
>have plenty of feature to make it happen.

Unfortunately, unless you have a stable group of people with
self-control, that doesn't work.  Idiots like Xah will always get
responses.  (This opinion brought to you by two decades of experience
with BBS, mailing lists, and Usenet.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  8 00:35:40 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:35:40 -0800
Subject: Python 2.4 and list of dictionary issues
In-Reply-To: <f37827421002072108gcf3629eo867359adf7433cd0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f37827421002072108gcf3629eo867359adf7433cd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002072135s68fbac3eqab417ff6fa5ac4cc@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Chris Stevens <cjstevens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a python newbie so please excuse me if I am missing something
> simple here. I am writing a script which requires a list of
> dictionaries (originally a dictionary of dictionaries, but I changed
> it to a list to try and overcome the below problem).
>
> Now my understanding is that you create the empty list, then append or
> add entries to it. Correct?
>
> Here is some code:
>
> userInfo = []
> ...
> userInfo.append( {
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'username' : uidString[0],
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?...
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'failedattempts' : int(0)
> })
>
> I'm not to sure on the bracketing here, but I have tried many
> combinations. The issue here is that I get a "IndexError: list index
> out of range" message on the line "userInfo.append( {"

Please include the full and exact error Traceback, and remember to do
so in the future.

> I wrote this script on a box with Python 2.6 and it worked fine.
> Moving it to a box with 2.4, and I get this error. I can't understand
> why i'm getting a list index out of range error when trying to append
> (not reference) a list?? I have also tried "+=", and
> userInfo(len(userInfo))= .... just get the same error.
>
> Could anyone shed some light on this?

I would guess that `uidString` is probably an empty string or list,
thus when you try to access the first character or item of it via
uidString[0], you get an error. However, as you didn't include a
Traceback, I can't be sure. I have no idea why the error only shows
itself for certain Python versions; the problem is probably in some
part of the code you're not showing us.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From danielwong at berkeley.edu  Mon Feb  8 01:06:14 2010
From: danielwong at berkeley.edu (danielx)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:06:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: convention for documenting function parameters in doc strings
Message-ID: <b63184df-504e-49be-9f0b-d63c37e1ce9d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

Is there a convention for how to document function (or method)
parameters in doc strings? Recently, I've been doing alot of PHP
programming, and in PHPdoc, you'd do it like this:

/*
 * @param type $foo Description.
 *
 * @return type Description.
 */
function bar($foo) {
  ...
}

Is there an equivalent convention I (c|sh)ould be using in my Python
docstrings? I saw that Python 3 has function annotations, which could
be used for this purpose, but function annotations have no particular
purpose within the language itself (which seems like a mistake to me),
and they don't exist in the Python 2.x series (at least not the older
versions).


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  8 01:26:14 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:26:14 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>

Craig Berry wrote:
> Can someone please tell me if there's a way to do this, or answer
> definitively that there is no way?  I have a design in progress that
> could really use mousewheel control, and I don't want to settle for
> Plan B until I know Plan A is impossible. :)
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 19:48, Craig Berry <cdberry at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Is there any way to get mouse wheel events from glut in PyOpenGL?
>>
>> --
>> Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
>> "Lots of things in the universe don?t solve any problems, and
>> nevertheless exist."  -- Sean Carroll
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   

Didn't I answer this already?

GLUT on windows usually does not catch mousewheel events for me.  
(Although it seems to me that is has worked sporadically over past years 
and versions.)   GLUT on Linux does catch wheel events nicely -- but 
read on anyway...

Freeglut (which is open source) is an (almost) direct binary replacement 
for GLUT, and it *does* catch mousewheel events.  (On both Windows and 
Linux.)

Is there a reason this answer is not satisfactory?  If you're not 
*forced* to use GLUT, use FREEGLUT and your problem is solved with no 
additional work.  

If you *are* forced to use GLUT, rebel.  GLUT has not been maintained 
for more than 10 years, is showing its age, and is licensed in such a 
way that you can't modify it.  Use FREEGLUT instead: see 
http://freeglut.sourceforge.net/



From half.italian at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 01:28:19 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:28:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<b0340314-a7af-4798-9634-1855d0d9eac9@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<811dd4e9-6eea-4c1f-a24b-ba0179e57f84@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f5f45f07-4853-4844-996a-dbef9b93cbae@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 4:57?pm, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestions - ?I think my next step is to try running
> it under an admin user account, as you guys both mentioned. ?Alf -
> you're absolutely right, Microsoft has srvany.exe, which allows you to
> run any EXE as a Windows service. ?I've done this in the past, but
> it's more of a "hack"..so this go around (since I will be distributing
> this program), I wanted to go the more professional route..which,
> unfortunately, involves learning the "scum". :) ?I ?posted this to
> comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32, so we'll see if what the Win32
> programmers have to say as well. ?Thanks again!

I use windows services and they are very reliable.  I would say though
that relying on plink.exe is much less reliable than either python or
the service that it is running under.

Why not take a look at paramiko as the ssh client library?  I think it
runs under windows.  Also perhaps Twisted has something.  Either way
would be light years ahead of using subprocess with plink.

Just my thoughts.

~Sean


From austin.bingham at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 01:42:24 2010
From: austin.bingham at gmail.com (Austin Bingham)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:42:24 +0100
Subject: C/C++ Import
In-Reply-To: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bf1abd11002072242m66d10d84sa924d77e5e78daae@mail.gmail.com>

Does the 'python' directory contain a file named '__init__.py'? This
is required to let that directory act as a package (see:
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/modules.html#packages); without it,
you'll see the symptoms you're seeing.

Austin

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:56 AM, 7H3LaughingMan <austin.brkich at gmail.com> wrote:
> To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
> program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
> since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
> designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
> release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
> got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
> needs.
>
> The program is running the following code...
> PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );
>
> This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
> folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
> PyErr_Print())
> ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager
>
> I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
> how to do a proper import?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From cdberry at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 01:45:44 2010
From: cdberry at gmail.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:45:44 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 22:26, Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com> wrote:

> Didn't I answer this already?

If you did, for whatever reason I didn't see it; I just rechecked my
inbox to be sure. Thanks for doing so again!

I assume, given the list we're on, that Freeglut can be used with
Python.  I'll look into it.  Thanks for the pointer!

-- 
Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
"Lots of things in the universe don?t solve any problems, and
nevertheless exist."  -- Sean Carroll


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 02:19:59 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:19:59 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <m24olsyz1c.fsf@googlemail.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:

> * Chris Rebert:
>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>
>>> class Test:
>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>
>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>> value, not reference)?
>>
>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>> of what Python does use.
>
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>
> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.


Please! Not this again! This has been discussed to death and beyond more
than enough times.  Go search the c.l.p archives, read it all, and I'm
sure you won't want to add anything anymore.

-- 
Arnaud


From grflanagan at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 03:02:43 2010
From: grflanagan at gmail.com (Gerard Flanagan)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:02:43 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <m24olsyz1c.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<m24olsyz1c.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hkogf2$ruh$1@ger.gmane.org>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:
> 
>> * Chris Rebert:
>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>
>>>> class Test:
>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>
>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>> value, not reference)?
>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>> of what Python does use.
>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> 
> Please! Not this again! This has been discussed to death and beyond more
> than enough times.  Go search the c.l.p archives, read it all, and I'm
> sure you won't want to add anything anymore.
> 

+1 !!





From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Feb  8 03:11:22 2010
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:11:22 -0800
Subject: SQLite3: preventing new file creation
In-Reply-To: <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <6cf467a9-99d7-4fda-99da-075b4b38e3e0@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkogv9$tbn$1@ger.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gnarlodious wrote:
> Every time I say something like:
> 
> connection=sqlite3.connect(file)
> 
> sqlite creates a new database file. Can this behavior be suppressed
> through SQLite? Or am I forced to check for the file existing first?

This is due to the API that pysqlite uses to talk to SQLite.  (There is a
more recent API but pysqlite remains backwards compatible with older SQLite
versions).

Note that although SQLite will create the file, it will be zero length (*)
until you do a command that causes a database change.

Also as a guideline be careful with SQLite files.  In particular not only is
there a database file, but there may also be a journal file.  If the journal
is removed then the main database file can be corrupted.  (The journal
contains data in order to rollback back incomplete transactions from the
database.)

(*) On Mac due to an operating system bug the file will actually be created
as one byte in length containing the upper case letter 'S'.

There is a dedicated mailing list for Python and SQLite:

  http://groups.google.com/group/python-sqlite

You can use the newer SQLite database open API as well as many other SQLite
APIs not supported by pysqlite by using APSW.  (Disclaimer: I am the author
of APSW.)

Roger
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From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Mon Feb  8 03:16:35 2010
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:16:35 -0800
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
In-Reply-To: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkoh92$u7f$1@ger.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

gintare statkute wrote:
> Does anybody know if it possible to execute sqlite3 dot commands in python?

The dot commands are parsed and executed by different code not part of the
standard SQLite library.

However if you want interactive shell functionality from Python then you can
use APSW.  It includes a shell you can just go ahead and use based on a
shell class you can extend with your own methods, direct input and output as
needed, completion etc.

  http://apsw.googlecode.com/svn/publish/shell.html

(Disclaimer: I am the APSW author)

Roger
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From petef4+usenet at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 03:27:52 2010
From: petef4+usenet at gmail.com (Pete Forman)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:27:52 +0000
Subject: xmlrpc slow in windows 7 if hostnames are used
References: <4b6b4b6c$0$23902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1931.1265332418.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6be08f$0$10133$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1945.1265367508.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6c9b28$0$10494$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4B6E1444.9060001@sequans.com>
	<mailman.2079.1265526851.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ljf4rv1z.fsf@gmail.com>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

 > En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:15:48 -0300, Jean-Michel Pichavant
 > <jeanmichel at sequans.com> escribi?:
>
>> I'm puzzled.
>> Unless my english is failing me, everything would be solved using
>> hostnames if I follow you. Why don't you do that ?
>> I am no network/IP guru, but it sounds very weird to have requests
>> rejected when using IP addresses. Are you sure your host names are
>> resolved with the same IPM address you are using ?
>
 > HTTP 1.1 requires a Host: header field; this way, multiple web
 > servers may share the same IP address. So you can't identify a host
 > by its IP alone; the host name is required. This was devised in
 > order to save IPv4 addresses; LACNIC (the Latin America addresses
 > register) does not assign addresses to ISP's based solely on web
 > hosting anymore - they MUST share existing IPs. And I think a
 > similar policy is used on other regions.

If you really want to go for speed you should be able to set the Host:
header to the name but use the IP address to make the connection.

Something else that might be slowing you down is anti-spyware or
anti-virus.  Several products put a long list of blacklist sites in
the hosts file.  Windows can be rather slow to process that file.
-- 
Pete Forman        -./\.-
West Sussex, UK      -./\.-
http://petef.22web.net -./\.-
petef4+usenet at gmail.com  -./\.-


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Mon Feb  8 03:30:51 2010
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:30:51 +0100
Subject: Help with regex search-and-replace (Perl to Python)
In-Reply-To: <06a91472-3974-45d3-b86a-c3c9055a5831@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <6705a5d5-551f-43c8-a863-50b051c6c0bc@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<hkligk$rfd$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<d673272e-2594-46ea-ba1b-3a0a7eacf90e@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<4B6EBBEE.2070402@tim.thechases.com>
	<4B6EC203.4040807@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.2103.1265551059.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<06a91472-3974-45d3-b86a-c3c9055a5831@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FCBBB.3090707@bluewin.ch>

Schif Schaf wrote:
> On Feb 7, 8:57 am, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>   
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Really? Under what circumstances does a simple one-for-one character
>>> replacement operation fail?
>>>       
>> Failure is only defined in the clarified context of what the OP
>> wants :)  Replacement operations only fail if the OP's desired
>> output from the above mess doesn't change *all* of the ]/[
>> characters, but only those with some form of parity (nested or
>> otherwise).  But if the OP *does* want all of the ]/[ characters
>> replaced regardless of contextual nature, then yes, replace is a
>> much better solution than regexps.
>>
>>     
>
> I need to do the usual "pipe text through and do various search/
> replace" thing fairly often. The above case of having to replace
> brackets with braces is only one example. Simple string methods run
> out of steam pretty quickly and much of my work relies on using
> regular expressions. Yes, I try to keep focused on simplicity, and
> often regexes are the simplest solution for my day-to-day needs.
>   
Could you post a complex case? It's a kindness to your helpers to 
simplify your case, but if the simplification doesn't cover the full 
scope of your problem you can't expect the suggestions to cover it.

Frederic



From rychphd at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 03:38:12 2010
From: rychphd at gmail.com (rych)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:38:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ctypes Structure serialization
References: <615b1271-a9b0-4558-8e45-e4370698d96a@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e5b00ee3-1ac6-49de-b175-db434231ba85@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

OK, an easier question, hopefully.
How to unpack all fields from ctypes Structure line by line and save
into the name-value pairs?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb  8 03:53:24 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:53:24 +1300
Subject: The Case For Do-Once
Message-ID: <hkoje5$4nf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

I wrote my first Python extension library over the last couple of weeks. I 
took note of all the recommendations to keep track of reference counts, to 
ensure that objects were not disposed when they shouldn?t be, and were when 
they should. However, the example code seems to use gotos. And the trouble 
with these is that they don?t nest and un-nest easily; try to do too much 
refactoring with them, and you run into the age-old ?spaghetti code? 
problem.

Which is where the do-once block comes in. The basic control flow is this:
    * Unconditionally initialize all dynamic storage to nil
    * Do the main body of the code, aborting in any error
    * Regardless of success or failure of the above, dispose of all
      allocated dynamic storage, using disposal calls which turn into
      noops if passed pointers that are already nil.

For example, here?s a utility routine from my extension that, passed a 
Python array object, returns the address and length of the storage:

static void GetBufferInfo
  (
    PyObject * FromArray,
    unsigned long * addr,
    unsigned long * len
  )
  /* returns the address and length of the data in a Python array object. */
  {
    PyObject * TheBufferInfo = 0;
    PyObject * AddrObj = 0;
    PyObject * LenObj = 0;
    do /*once*/
      {
        TheBufferInfo = PyObject_CallMethod(FromArray, "buffer_info", "");
        if (TheBufferInfo == 0)
            break;
        AddrObj = PyTuple_GetItem(TheBufferInfo, 0);
        LenObj = PyTuple_GetItem(TheBufferInfo, 1);
        if (PyErr_Occurred())
            break;
        Py_INCREF(AddrObj);
        Py_INCREF(LenObj);
        *addr = PyInt_AsUnsignedLongMask(AddrObj);
        *len = PyInt_AsUnsignedLongMask(LenObj);
        if (PyErr_Occurred())
            break;
      }
    while (false);
    Py_XDECREF(AddrObj);
    Py_XDECREF(LenObj);
    Py_XDECREF(TheBufferInfo);
  } /*GetBufferInfo*/

You can pretty much determine by inspection that all the reference counts 
are properly maintained, no need to trace through convoluted flows of 
control.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 03:59:42 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:59:42 +0100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4b6fd27e$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Paul Rubin, 04.02.2010 02:51:
> John Nagle writes:
>> Analysis of each domain is
>> performed in a separate process, but each process uses multiple
>> threads to read process several web pages simultaneously.
>>
>>    Some of the threads go compute-bound for a second or two at a time as
>> they parse web pages.  
> 
> You're probably better off using separate processes for the different
> pages.  If I remember, you were using BeautifulSoup, which while very
> cool, is pretty doggone slow for use on large volumes of pages.  I don't
> know if there's much that can be done about that without going off on a
> fairly messy C or C++ coding adventure.  Maybe someday someone will do
> that.

Well, if multi-core performance is so important here, then there's a pretty
simple thing the OP can do: switch to lxml.

http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/

Stefan


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb  8 04:00:37 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 09:00:37 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0795c4c2-bfd4-4372-903e-a91e45b37d50@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D195B78DC620duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:

> Oops, this one was my fault - the object I was having the issues with
> was actually a shelve file, not a dictionary..so just re-assigning the
> variable isn't working, but re-writing the object to the shelve file
> does.  So in this case, is there any way to just change a single
> value, or am I stuck rewriting the entry?

Either open the shelve with writeback=True or rewrite the entry.
Rewriting the entry isn't hard: you can just re-use the same value:

def changevalue():
    for key in mytest.keys():
        temp = mytest[key]
        temp.param3 = "newvalue"
        mytest[key] = temp

If you really are changing every item in the shelve using writeback=True 
will be much simpler, but if you are only changing a few then just tell the 
shelve that you've updated them as above.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 04:02:00 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:02:00 +0100
Subject: Stephen -- Bruce?
In-Reply-To: <2a932e46-1b81-4a97-bbee-3bf92b3b1447@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hkfkbg$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2a932e46-1b81-4a97-bbee-3bf92b3b1447@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6fd308$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Mensanator, 05.02.2010 00:36:
> On Feb 4, 5:13 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
>> What's this about all the Stephen'ses here?
>>
>> Shouldn't it be Bruce?
> 
> Of course. We just call everyone Stephen to avoid confusion.

Some people even manage to adapt the spellings accordingly.

Stefan


From louis.coilliot at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 04:02:50 2010
From: louis.coilliot at gmail.com (lofic)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 01:02:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: threading+popen2 hang
References: <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkmo2r$65o$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2542cf60-a193-4087-a1fe-1d60ee13c630@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 7 f?v, 17:00, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0... at d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> lofic ?<louis.coill... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Works fine on RHEL5/python 2.4.3
> >Hangs on RHEL4/python 2.3.4
>
> Then use Python 2.4 -- surely you don't expect anyone to provide bugfixes
> for a release that's several years old?
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> import antigravity


2.3 is the version provided with RHEL 4, which is still widely used in
production environments. Sometimes it is not so easy to shift to
another version in production systems.
Some people don't work with the last bleeding edge Fedora release and
must deal with (sometimes pretty old) existing system pools.
I could deploy python 2.4 in addition to python 2.3, but it is much
shake up for a little bug and a little program.
I was not expected a bugfix, but maybe a workaround.

Louis





From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb  8 04:10:07 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:10:07 -0800
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6fd27e$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <7xeikw2ivk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> writes:
> Well, if multi-core performance is so important here, then there's a pretty
> simple thing the OP can do: switch to lxml.
>
> http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/

Well, lxml is uses libxml2, a fast XML parser written in C, but AFAIK it
only works on well-formed XML.  The point of Beautiful Soup is that it
works on all kinds of garbage hand-written legacy HTML with mismatched
tags and other sorts of errors.  Beautiful Soup is slower because it's
full of special cases and hacks for that reason, and it is written in
Python.  Writing something that complex in C to handle so much
potentially malicious input would be quite a lot of work to write at
all, and very difficult to ensure was really safe.  Look at the many
browser vulnerabilities we've seen over the years due to that sort of
problem, for example.  But, for web crawling, you really do need to
handle the messy and wrong HTML properly.



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 04:16:34 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:16:34 +0100
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
In-Reply-To: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Jim, 06.02.2010 20:09:
> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
> syntax irregularities.

First thing to note here is that you should consider switching to an HTML
generation tool that does this automatically. Generating markup manually is
usually not a good idea.


> I am familiar with Beautiful Soup (use it all the time) but it is
> intended to cope with bad syntax.  I just tried feeding
> HTMLParser.HTMLParser some HTML containing '<p>a<b>b</p></b>' and it
> didn't complain.
> 
> That is, this:
>         h=HTMLParser.HTMLParser()
>         try:
>             h.feed('<p>a<b>b</p></b>')
>             h.close()
>             print "I expect not to see this line"
>         except Exception, err:
>             print "exception:",str(err)
> gives me "I expect not to see this line".
> 
> Am I using that routine incorrectly?  Is there a natural Python choice
> for this job?

You can use lxml and let it validate the HTML output against the HTML DTD.
Just load the DTD from a catalog using the DOCTYPE in the document (see the
'docinfo' property on the parse tree).

http://codespeak.net/lxml/validation.html#id1

Note that when parsing the HTML file, you should disable the parser failure
recovery to make sure it barks on syntax errors instead of fixing them up.

http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#parser-options
http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#parsing-html

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 04:19:54 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:19:54 +0100
Subject: The Case For Do-Once
In-Reply-To: <hkoje5$4nf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <hkoje5$4nf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b6fd73a$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 08.02.2010 09:53:
> I wrote my first Python extension library over the last couple of weeks. I 
> took note of all the recommendations to keep track of reference counts, to 
> ensure that objects were not disposed when they shouldn?t be, and were when 
> they should.

This sounds more like a case for Cython to me, should have saved you a lot
of time.

Stefan


From andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 04:37:53 2010
From: andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com (Andrew Degtiariov)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:37:53 +0200
Subject: Import question
In-Reply-To: <op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
References: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <5d1b76f61002080137o6e3f9a1fjdab8bcf8d3959faf@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/6 Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>

> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:21:47 -0300, Andrew Degtiariov
> <andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>  Code of our project has split into several packages and we deploy the
>> project using buildout.
>> All worked fine until I need to dynamically inspect python modules.
>>
>
> Entirely by luck, I'd say :)
>
>
>  ????project.api.config
>> ?   ????project
>> ?   ?   ????api
>> ?   ?       ????config
>> ?   ?           ????settings
>> ?   ????project.api.config.egg-info
>> ????project.api.contacts
>> ?   ????project
>> ?   ?   ????api
>> ?   ?       ????contacts
>> ?   ?           ????importer
>> ?   ?           ????views
>> ?   ????project.api.contacts.egg-info
>>
>
>  Regular code like "import project.api.config" worked fine, but now I'm
>> tryed
>> __import__('project.api.config'):
>>
>> $ bin/python
>>
>>  import project.api.config
>>>>> __import__('project.api.config')
>>>>>
>>>> <module 'project from
>> 'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>
>>
>
>
>
If someone is interesting - __import__ works but imp doesn't.
In my example:
>>> m = __import__('project.api.config')
>>> m
<module 'project from
'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>
>>> m.api
<module 'project.api from
'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\api\__init__.pyc'>
>>> m.api.config
<module 'project.api.config'
from'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.config\project\api\config\__init__.pyc'>

Please note that the m and m.api pointed to first installing package with
namespace project.api but m.api.config have pointed to the proper file.

And releasing code with several distributions it is one of goals of
Distribute. And you might look to pypi for... zope. There is lot of package
which names starts from "zope."
It's really convenient

-- 
Andrew Degtiariov
DA-RIPE
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  8 05:19:34 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:19:34 -0300
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<79728aa8-073f-48c5-8162-fa57e9fefd69@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<76609ff4-6579-4b2b-80b7-fb88bd5f1fa7@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7s0awhux6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:17:59 -0300, hzhuo1 at gmail.com <hzhuo1 at gmail.com>
escribi?:

>> Please check out this example on the pyparsing wiki,  
>> invRegex.py:http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/invRegex.py.  
>>  This code
>> implements a generator that returns successive matching strings for
>> the given regex.  [...]
>> Of course, as other posters have pointed out, this inverter does not
>> accept regexen with unbounded multiple characters '+' or '*', but '?'
>> and "{min,max}" notation will work.  Even '.' is supported, although
>> this can generate a large number of return values.
>
> Thanks very much. This is exactly what I need now. I will check this
> function.
>

Here you have another approach based on [1]. This is a generator-based
approach, yielding all strings in increasing length order. In principle it
can handle unbounded repetitions, except as written the maximum recursion
limit is shortly reached (the original code is in Haskell, I almost
blindly translated it into Python; certainly it can be rewritten more
efficiently)

You have to parse the R.E. and generate the corresponding function calls
to the merge/prod/closure functions -- pyparsing certainly can help with
that. "ab" becomes prod(a,b), "a|b" becomes merge(a,b), and "a*" becomes
closure(a)

By example, to find the language defined by this expression "(a|bc)*d",
one has to evaluate:

prod(
     closure(
       merge(['a'],
             prod(['b'],['c']))),
     ['d']
)

wich yields these strings:

d
ad
aad
bcd
aaad
abcd
bcad
...

bcbcbcbcaad
bcbcbcbcbcd
aaaaaaaaaaad

and after 234 results aborts with a recursion error :(

[1] http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/misra/Notes.dir/RegExp.pdf

-- 
Gabriel Genellina
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  8 05:19:34 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:19:34 -0300
Subject: How to print all expressions that match a regular expression
References: <ee2cfd35-3171-4ee7-ad3a-cf117e5527c5@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<79728aa8-073f-48c5-8162-fa57e9fefd69@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<76609ff4-6579-4b2b-80b7-fb88bd5f1fa7@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7s0awsfx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:17:59 -0300, hzhuo1 at gmail.com <hzhuo1 at gmail.com>
escribi?:

>> Please check out this example on the pyparsing wiki,  
>> invRegex.py:http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/invRegex.py.  
>>  This code
>> implements a generator that returns successive matching strings for
>> the given regex.  [...]
>> Of course, as other posters have pointed out, this inverter does not
>> accept regexen with unbounded multiple characters '+' or '*', but '?'
>> and "{min,max}" notation will work.  Even '.' is supported, although
>> this can generate a large number of return values.
>
> Thanks very much. This is exactly what I need now. I will check this
> function.
>

Here you have another approach based on [1]. This is a generator-based
approach, yielding all strings in increasing length order. In principle it
can handle unbounded repetitions, except as written the maximum recursion
limit is shortly reached (the original code is in Haskell, I almost
blindly translated it into Python; certainly it can be rewritten more
efficiently)

You have to parse the R.E. and generate the corresponding function calls
to the merge/prod/closure functions -- pyparsing certainly can help with
that. "ab" becomes prod(a,b), "a|b" becomes merge(a,b), and "a*" becomes
closure(a)

By example, to find the language defined by this expression "(a|bc)*d",
one has to evaluate:

prod(
     closure(
       merge(['a'],
             prod(['b'],['c']))),
     ['d']
)

wich yields these strings:

d
ad
aad
bcd
aaad
abcd
bcad
...

bcbcbcbcaad
bcbcbcbcbcd
aaaaaaaaaaad

and after 234 results aborts with a recursion error :(

[1] http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/misra/Notes.dir/RegExp.pdf

-- 
Gabriel Genellina
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From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb  8 05:19:45 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:19:45 +1300
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93 at newsspool2.arcor-online.net>, Stefan 
Behnel wrote:

> Jim, 06.02.2010 20:09:
>
>> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
>> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
>> syntax irregularities.
> 
> First thing to note here is that you should consider switching to an HTML
> generation tool that does this automatically.

I think that?s what he?s writing.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 05:36:45 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:36:45 +0100
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
In-Reply-To: <hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 08.02.2010 11:19:
> In message <4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93 at newsspool2.arcor-online.net>, Stefan 
> Behnel wrote:
> 
>> Jim, 06.02.2010 20:09:
>>
>>> I generate some HTML and I want to include in my unit tests a check
>>> for syntax.  So I am looking for a program that will complain at any
>>> syntax irregularities.
>> First thing to note here is that you should consider switching to an HTML
>> generation tool that does this automatically.
> 
> I think that?s what he?s writing.

I don't read it that way. There's a huge difference between

- generating HTML manually and validating (some of) it in a unit test

and

- generating HTML using a tool that guarantees correct HTML output

the advantage of the second approach being that others have already done
all the debugging for you.

Stefan


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb  8 05:49:52 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:49:52 +0100
Subject: convention for documenting function parameters in doc strings
In-Reply-To: <b63184df-504e-49be-9f0b-d63c37e1ce9d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <b63184df-504e-49be-9f0b-d63c37e1ce9d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FEC50.90708@sequans.com>

danielx wrote:
> Is there a convention for how to document function (or method)
> parameters in doc strings? Recently, I've been doing alot of PHP
> programming, and in PHPdoc, you'd do it like this:
>
> /*
>  * @param type $foo Description.
>  *
>  * @return type Description.
>  */
> function bar($foo) {
>   ...
> }
>
> Is there an equivalent convention I (c|sh)ould be using in my Python
> docstrings? I saw that Python 3 has function annotations, which could
> be used for this purpose, but function annotations have no particular
> purpose within the language itself (which seems like a mistake to me),
> and they don't exist in the Python 2.x series (at least not the older
> versions).
>   
Different strategies here:

1/ most doc builders propose their own format. You can stick to it if 
you don't want to use another builder (e.g. epydoc has a specific syntax 
to document signatures)
2/ Use a 'standard' format, usually these formats are a bit more formal 
but they gain in portability, most builders support these formats. 
reStructuredText is one of them and supported by all python doc builders.

http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-othermarkup.html

JM


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 05:57:33 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 02:57:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
Message-ID: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:

if file.endswith('xyz'):
    xyz(file)
elif file.endswith('abc'):
    abc(file)

...

Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:

func = file[-3:]
apply_func(func, file)

Can something of this kind be done in Python?

Klaus



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Feb  8 06:11:14 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:11:14 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Klaus Neuner a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
> 
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
> 
> ...
> 
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
> 
> func = file[-3:]

A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.

> apply_func(func, file)
> 
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?

The simplest (and canonical) solution is to use a dict:

def handle_txt(path):
    # code here

def handle_py(path):
    # code here

etc...

def handle_default(path):
    # for anything else


handlers = {
    ".txt" : handle_txt,
    ".py" : handle_py,
    # etc
    }


import os

def handle_file(path):
    dummy, ext = os.path.splitext(path)
    handler = handlers.get(ext, handle_default)
    return handler(path)

HTH


From boblatest at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 06:14:40 2010
From: boblatest at googlemail.com (boblatest)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:14:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Create a backslash-escaped version of a string?
Message-ID: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'd like to have control characters in a string to be converted to
their backslash-escaped counterparts. I looked in the encoders section
of the string module but couldn't find anything appropriate. I could
write it myself but I'm sure something of the sort exists. The
hypothetical method "c_escaped()" would work like this:

>>> a="abc\rdef"
>>> print a.c_escaped()
abc\rdef
>>>

Thanks,
robert


From sivaits4u at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 06:20:50 2010
From: sivaits4u at gmail.com (Bujji)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:50:50 +0530
Subject: speed of server
Message-ID: <581ce2791002080320p4e257539s6d089d5f75a62853@mail.gmail.com>

hi all,

how to find the speed of a particular server ( suppose it is hosting a site
yahoo.com)
how can i find it using python script whether it is slow or faster on that
time

help me

thanks

Bujji
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From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 06:26:39 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:26:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

>
> A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.

No, of course not. But it is, if I choose to use only (self-made) file
endings that are 3 chars long. Anyway, it was just an example.

> handlers = {
> ? ? ".txt" : handle_txt,
> ? ? ".py" : handle_py,
> ? ? # etc
> ? ? }
>

That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
forget to add its name to the dictionary. (This is not severe if there
is only one dictionary for mapping functions, but it will make life a
lot harder, if a lot of mappings of this kind are used.)

What I want is calling the string directly. In Prolog, I would use
something like:

get_file_ending(File, Ending),
Predicate =.. [Ending, File],
call(Predicate).




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb  8 06:28:39 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 03:28:39 -0800
Subject: Create a backslash-escaped version of a string?
In-Reply-To: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002080328s55ec1369u98466118a620fb98@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:14 AM, boblatest <boblatest at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to have control characters in a string to be converted to
> their backslash-escaped counterparts. I looked in the encoders section
> of the string module but couldn't find anything appropriate. I could
> write it myself but I'm sure something of the sort exists. The
> hypothetical method "c_escaped()" would work like this:
>
>>>> a="abc\rdef"
>>>> print a.c_escaped()
> abc\rdef

print a.encode("string-escape")

Note that there are some wrinkles if the string contains quote marks
(and possibly also if it contains Unicode; I didn't test).

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Feb  8 06:30:34 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:30:34 -0500
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FF5DA.2040804@ieee.org>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
>
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
>
> ...
>
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
>
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
>
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?
>
> Klaus
>
>
>   
You perhaps were intending to use the file extension , rather than the 
last three characters of the name.  If so, consider os.path.splitext().  
And you shouldn't shadow the builtin *file* type with a variable of the 
same name.

More directly to your question, best suggestion is to build a (const) 
dictionary:

apply_func = { "xyz":xyz, "abc":abc }

which maps the strings to functions.  This line can be at outer scope, 
as long as it follows all the appropriate function definitions.  Notice 
that the individual functions need not be in the same module, if you use 
a fully qualified name in the dictionary.  And of course, there's no 
necessity of naming the function exactly the same as the extension.  So 
you could implement the functions in another module 'implem", and use 
the following:

import implem
apply_func = { "xyz":implem.process_xyz_files, 
"abc":implem.process_abc_files }

Now, you use it by something like:
     dummy, func_ext = os.path.splitext(my_filename)
     apply_func(func_ext, my_filename)

(all code untested)

DaveA



From wojciech_mula at poczta.null.onet.pl.invalid  Mon Feb  8 06:37:49 2010
From: wojciech_mula at poczta.null.onet.pl.invalid (Wojciech =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Mu=B3a?=)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:37:49 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100208123749.d0c0d6c1.wojciech_mula@poczta.null.onet.pl.invalid>

Klaus Neuner <klausneuner72 at googlemail.com> wrote:

> > handlers = {
> > ? ? ".txt" : handle_txt,
> > ? ? ".py" : handle_py,
> > ? ? # etc
> > ? ? }
> >
> 
> That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
> 'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
> anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
> forget to add its name to the dictionary.

Use dictionary mantained by runtime:

def handle(extensions):
	funname = "handle_" + extension
	return globals()[funname]
	
handle('txt') # => function handle_txt

w.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Feb  8 06:50:02 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:50:02 +0000
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FFA6A.9080604@timgolden.me.uk>

On 08/02/2010 11:26, Klaus Neuner wrote:
>>
>> A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.
>
> No, of course not. But it is, if I choose to use only (self-made) file
> endings that are 3 chars long. Anyway, it was just an example.
>
>> handlers = {
>>      ".txt" : handle_txt,
>>      ".py" : handle_py,
>>      # etc
>>      }
>>
>
> That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
> 'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
> anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
> forget to add its name to the dictionary. (This is not severe if there
> is only one dictionary for mapping functions, but it will make life a
> lot harder, if a lot of mappings of this kind are used.)
>
> What I want is calling the string directly. In Prolog, I would use
> something like:
>
> get_file_ending(File, Ending),
> Predicate =.. [Ending, File],
> call(Predicate).

You basically need a getattr lookup. If you're prepared to instantiate
a class or to import a handlers module then you can just look up against
that:

<handlers.py>
def handle_py (stuff):
   "print handling py"

def handle_default (stuff):
   "print handling default"

</handlers.py>

<main>
import handlers

ext = "py"
handler = getattr (handlers, "handle_" + ext, handlers.handle_default)
handler ("stuff")

</main>

You can do the equivalent by having a Handlers class with
the appropriate methods (handle_py, etc.) and which
you then instantiate.

If you want to keep everything in one module, you should be
able to achieve the same effect by looking the module up
in sys.modules and then proceeding as above:

<whatever.py>
import sys

def handle_py (stuff):
   print "handling py"

def handle_default (stuff):
   print "handling default"

ext = "py"
me = sys.modules[__name__]
handler = getattr (me, "handle_" + ext, me.handle_default)
handler ("blah")

</whatever.py>

(All untested...)

TJG


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 06:51:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:51:38 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.08.03.14.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.08.03.14.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkotuc$5v3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:03:06 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> Alf:
>>
>> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
>> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
>> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
>> real advantage.
> 
> Curse you Steve, I had just come up with a brilliant rebuttal of Alf's 
> position. It was sheer genius, the sort of thing that would have James 
> Gosling weeping with envy.
> 
> Oh well, into the bitbucket it goes...
> 
> 
You're a better man for it, Steven! Admirable self-restraint ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 06:59:02 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:59:02 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkouca$9k5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
[...]
>> Alf:
>>
>> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
>> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
>> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
>> real advantage.
> 
> Well that's my point, and thanks for backing me up on that :-): it's
> very simple, and as demonstrated can be expressed in 10 words or less
> (plus perhaps a terminology reference, as I did above), so all that
> discussion and in particular the lengthy article at effbot serves as
> obfuscation and nothing else.
> 
Please don't assume I was trying to support you. Your remarks showed
considerable ignorance of issue that were extremely nuanced. Whatever
point you were trying to make was lost in your self-aggrandizing
disrespect of Fredrik Lundh, a software engineer of some repute with a
long history of contribution to Python. The fact that your post was
basically a restatement of one of the several competing positions in
that thread makes it no more right than any of the others.

> By the way, most every programming language has some corner like that,
> something that is utterly simple but somehow has some kind of
> obfuscation-meme attached.
> 
Why thank you for the education. Somehow in my 40-odd years of
programming I had quite overlooked that fact. Which helps how?

> In C++ it's "call" and "constructor". It doesn't help that the
> language's standard lays down the law on it, it doesn't help that the
> language's creator has laid down the law, it doesn't help that it's
> utterly and completely simple. Somehow newbies and even some experienced
> people manage to create their own terminological nightmare  and drawing
> conclusions about reality from that misguided obfuscated view, and then
> discussing it up and down and sideways.
> 
Which IMHO you have done little to assist. Just how exactly *do* we
succeed in asking you not to discuss something?

yours intemperate-ly  - steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb  8 06:59:39 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:59:39 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FFCAB.2040802@sequans.com>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
>
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
>
> ...
>
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
>
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
>
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?
>
> Klaus
>
>   
You won't need anything else than defining the proper function to 
support the extension with the following code:


import os

class Handlers:

    class NoHandler(Exception):
        pass
   
    @staticmethod
    def txt(fileName):
        print 'I am processing a txt file'

    @staticmethod
    def tar(fileName):
        print 'I am processing a tar file'

    @classmethod
    def default(cls, fileName):
        raise cls.NoHandler("I don't know how to handle %s " % fileName)

for fileName in ['/tmp/test.txt', '/tmp/sdfsd.sfds']:
    _, extension = os.path.splitext(fileName)
    func = getattr(Handlers, extension.replace('.', ''), Handlers.default)
    try:
        func(fileName)
    except Handlers.NoHandler, exc:
        print exc


JM


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 07:01:42 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:01:42 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkogf2$ruh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<m24olsyz1c.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<hkogf2$ruh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hkouh9$9k5$2@ger.gmane.org>

Gerard Flanagan wrote:
> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:
>>
>>> * Chris Rebert:
>>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>>> missing.  I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>>
>>>>> class Test:
>>>>>    def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>>>        self.param1 = param1
>>>>>        self.param2 = param2
>>>>>        self.param3 = param3
>>>>>
>>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test.  If
>>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>>> of what Python does use.
>>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and
>>> to the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>>
>>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>
>>
>> Please! Not this again! This has been discussed to death and beyond more
>> than enough times.  Go search the c.l.p archives, read it all, and I'm
>> sure you won't want to add anything anymore.
>>
> 
> +1 !!
> 
+1000
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb  8 07:03:10 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:03:10 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b6ffd7e$0$6735$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Klaus Neuner, 08.02.2010 11:57:
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
> 
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
> 
> ...
> 
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
> 
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
> 
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?

Others have already pointed you to the approach of using a dict, or a
module/class namespace with functions/methods to do this. Either of the
latter two would be my favourite, depending on the complexity of the
handlers. A class is more suitable as a container for short, highly
correlated handlers, whereas a module makes more sense for handlers that do
rather different things, or that are longer than a single function. A
mixture of the two, e.g. a module of classes, where an entire class is used
to implement a complete handler over several methods (potentially including
some inheritance hierarchy between handlers that share functionality) might
also be a solution. Note that objects can be callable in Python (special
method __call__), you can exploit that here.

What you are implementing here is commonly called a dispatch mechanism,
BTW. There are several ways to do that, also within in Python. A web search
should reveal some more.

Stefan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 07:08:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:08:15 -0500
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FFEAF.5070305@holdenweb.com>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
>> A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.
> 
> No, of course not. But it is, if I choose to use only (self-made) file
> endings that are 3 chars long. Anyway, it was just an example.
> 
>> handlers = {
>>     ".txt" : handle_txt,
>>     ".py" : handle_py,
>>     # etc
>>     }
>>
> 
> That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
> 'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
> anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
> forget to add its name to the dictionary. (This is not severe if there
> is only one dictionary for mapping functions, but it will make life a
> lot harder, if a lot of mappings of this kind are used.)
> 
> What I want is calling the string directly. In Prolog, I would use
> something like:
> 
> get_file_ending(File, Ending),
> Predicate =.. [Ending, File],
> call(Predicate).
> 
> 


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 07:08:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:08:15 -0500
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<4b6ff153$0$28652$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<22b192df-8a54-4141-81c8-0ee068815420@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B6FFEAF.5070305@holdenweb.com>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
>> A file extension is not necessarily 3 chars long.
> 
> No, of course not. But it is, if I choose to use only (self-made) file
> endings that are 3 chars long. Anyway, it was just an example.
> 
>> handlers = {
>>     ".txt" : handle_txt,
>>     ".py" : handle_py,
>>     # etc
>>     }
>>
> 
> That is exactly what I would like to avoid: Having to map the function
> 'handle_txt' to '.txt'. Firstly, because I don't want to repeat
> anything and secondly, because I will one day add a new function and
> forget to add its name to the dictionary. (This is not severe if there
> is only one dictionary for mapping functions, but it will make life a
> lot harder, if a lot of mappings of this kind are used.)
> 
> What I want is calling the string directly. In Prolog, I would use
> something like:
> 
> get_file_ending(File, Ending),
> Predicate =.. [Ending, File],
> call(Predicate).
> 
> 


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From tim_grove at sil.org  Mon Feb  8 09:22:56 2010
From: tim_grove at sil.org (Timothy W. Grove)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:22:56 +0000
Subject: Python User Group near Cheltenham, UK ?
Message-ID: <4B701E40.2030307@sil.org>

Anyone know of an 'active' Python User Group near Cheltenham, UK? I 
spotted one in Birmingham (http://www.pywm.eu), but would like one a 
little closer ... :-)

Tim


From jfabiani at yolo.com  Mon Feb  8 09:27:21 2010
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (jfabiani at yolo.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:27:21 -0800
Subject: Calendar GUI
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>	<1adde6891002051614k3dc02d1o9651c59147f6c7d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2069.1265506605.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GaCdndFHyMHXgu3WnZ2dnUVZ_q1i4p2d@wavecable.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Michael Torrie wrote:
>> Gabriel wrote:
>>   
>>> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:08 PM, William Gaggioli <wgaggioli at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>     
>>>> I'm working on setting up some software for a Peruvian non-profit to
>>>> help them organize their incoming volunteers. One of the features I'd
>>>> like to add is a calendar-like view of the different volunteers arrival
>>>> dates and staying time, with potentially some other info through some
>>>> double-click action. Rather than writing a calendar gui myself, is
>>>> there some open-source calendar program you guys could recommend that I
>>>> could plug into? It has to be run locally, as the internet isn't so
>>>> reliable down here, but other than that something simple and clean is
>>>> ideal.
>>>>       

Take a look at wxscheduler, and chandler.

Johnf


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Feb  8 09:28:41 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:28:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <hkp72p$5rs$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:02:49 -0800, John Nagle a ?crit?:
> I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a multicore
> CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
> ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate if
> the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time, but it's
> worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to a lame locking
> implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded code on a dual-core CPU
> runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core CPU, according to Beasley.

That's on certain types of workloads, and perhaps on certain OSes, so you 
should try benching your own workload to see whether it applies.

Two closing remarks:
- this should (hopefully) be fixed in 3.2, as exarkun noticed
- instead of spawning one thread per Web page, you could use Twisted or 
another event loop mechanism in order to process pages serially, in the 
order of arrival

Regards

Antoine.




From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Feb  8 09:46:09 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:46:09 +0000
Subject: Python User Group near Cheltenham, UK ?
In-Reply-To: <4B701E40.2030307@sil.org>
References: <4B701E40.2030307@sil.org>
Message-ID: <4B7023B1.2050802@timgolden.me.uk>

On 08/02/2010 14:22, Timothy W. Grove wrote:
> Anyone know of an 'active' Python User Group near Cheltenham, UK? I
> spotted one in Birmingham (http://www.pywm.eu), but would like one a
> little closer ... :-)

Don't think there's anything further west than Northants / W. Midlands.
There are Open Source things in Oxford but nothing Python-specific, I
believe.

TJG


From austin.brkich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 09:50:20 2010
From: austin.brkich at gmail.com (7H3LaughingMan)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:50:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: C/C++ Import
References: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2139.1265611346.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4d7eb353-fb6b-4379-beee-8971ddc2472d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

The folder does contain a file named '__init__.py'. However it
contains nothing inside of the file.

On Feb 8, 12:42?am, Austin Bingham <austin.bing... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does the 'python' directory contain a file named '__init__.py'? This
> is required to let that directory act as a package (see:http://docs.python.org/tutorial/modules.html#packages);without it,
> you'll see the symptoms you're seeing.
>
> Austin
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:56 AM, 7H3LaughingMan <austin.brk... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
> > program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
> > since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
> > designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
> > release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
> > got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
> > needs.
>
> > The program is running the following code...
> > PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );
>
> > This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
> > folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
> > PyErr_Print())
> > ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager
>
> > I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
> > how to do a proper import?
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



From Steven.Rumbalski at fiserv.com  Mon Feb  8 09:51:02 2010
From: Steven.Rumbalski at fiserv.com (Steven)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:51:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
References: <mailman.1949.1265374022.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <770583c3-a7c7-4a3d-b90f-9546801040e3@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 7:45?am, "Frank Millman" <fr... at chagford.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Assume you have a server process running, a pool of worker threads to
> perform tasks, and aQueue.Queue() to pass the tasks to the workers.
>
> In order to shut down the server cleanly, you want to ensure that the
> workers have all finished their tasks. I like the technique of putting a
> None onto thequeue, and have each worker check for None, put None back onto
> thequeue, and terminate itself.
>
> The main program would look something like this -
>
> ? ? q.put(None)
> ? ? for worker in worker_threads:
> ? ? ? ? worker.join()
>
> At this point you can be sure that each thread has completed its tasks and
> terminated itself.
>
> However, thequeueis not empty - it still has the final None in it.
>
> Is it advisable to finalise the cleanup like this? -
>
> ? ? while not q.empty():
> ? ? ? ? q.get()
> ? ? ? ? q.task_done()
> ? ? q.join()
>
> Or is this completely redundant?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank Millman

Queue objects have support for this signaling baked in with
q.task_done and q.join.

After the server process has put all tasks into the queue, it can join
the queue itself, not the worker threads.

q.join()

This will block until all tasks have been gotten AND completed.  The
worker threads would simply do this:
task_data = q.get()
do_task(task_data)
q.task_done()

Using pairs of get and task_done you no longer need to send a signal.
Just exit the server process and the worker threads will die (assuming
of course, you set .setDaemon(True) before starting each worker
thread).

Steven Rumbalski


From grflanagan at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 10:00:27 2010
From: grflanagan at gmail.com (Gerard Flanagan)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:00:27 +0000
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkp8ub$g0c$1@ger.gmane.org>

Klaus Neuner wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
> 
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>     xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>     abc(file)
> 
> ...
> 
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
> 
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
> 

As mentioned, a dictionary dispatch will do what you want, but you can 
also use the self-registering technique outlined here:

http://effbot.org/zone/metaclass-plugins.htm [Fredrik Lundh]

(For Plugin, read Handler in this case.)

One idea might be to have Handler classes such as:

class TextHandler(HandlerType):
     extensions = ['', 'txt', 'rst']

     def run(self, *args, **kw):
         .... do stuff


then the __init__ of HandlerType's metaclass:

         def __init__(cls, name, bases, attrs):
             for ext in attrs.get('extensions', []):
                 registry[ext] = cls

then use like:

  registry['txt']().run()

If you don't need state, you could perhaps make 'run' a staticmethod and 
store it rather than the class,

eg. registry[ext] = cls.run

and then just:

  registry['txt']()

hth

G.F

------------------------------------------------------------------------

registry = {}

class HandlerType(object):
     class __metaclass__(type):
         def __init__(cls, name, bases, attrs):
             for ext in attrs.get('extensions', []):
                 registry[ext] = cls

class TextHandler(HandlerType):
     extensions = ['', 'txt']

print registry



From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 10:22:03 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:22:03 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2155.1265630440.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2155.1265630440.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkpa64$43s$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
> [...]
>>> Alf:
>>>
>>> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a year
>>> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
>>> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to nobody's
>>> real advantage.
>> Well that's my point, and thanks for backing me up on that :-): it's
>> very simple, and as demonstrated can be expressed in 10 words or less
>> (plus perhaps a terminology reference, as I did above), so all that
>> discussion and in particular the lengthy article at effbot serves as
>> obfuscation and nothing else.
>>
> Please don't assume I was trying to support you. Your remarks showed
> considerable ignorance of issue that were extremely nuanced. Whatever
> point you were trying to make was lost in your self-aggrandizing
> disrespect of Fredrik Lundh, a software engineer of some repute with a
> long history of contribution to Python. The fact that your post was
> basically a restatement of one of the several competing positions in
> that thread makes it no more right than any of the others.

What on Earth are you babbling about?

Perhaps next you'll drag in the Pope, saying I've shown him some disrespect.

News for you: the Pope ain't participating.


>> By the way, most every programming language has some corner like that,
>> something that is utterly simple but somehow has some kind of
>> obfuscation-meme attached.
>>
> Why thank you for the education. Somehow in my 40-odd years of
> programming I had quite overlooked that fact. Which helps how?
> 
>> In C++ it's "call" and "constructor". It doesn't help that the
>> language's standard lays down the law on it, it doesn't help that the
>> language's creator has laid down the law, it doesn't help that it's
>> utterly and completely simple. Somehow newbies and even some experienced
>> people manage to create their own terminological nightmare  and drawing
>> conclusions about reality from that misguided obfuscated view, and then
>> discussing it up and down and sideways.
>>
> Which IMHO you have done little to assist. Just how exactly *do* we
> succeed in asking you not to discuss something?

That's just a silly as the above. Hello? *Not* discuss an on-topic topic?

Anyways, we haven't reached discussion yet, if it will ever come to that.

All I see is a lot of silly noise about a simple trivially true technical 
statement, with incoherent allegations of disrespect to the Pope, the current 
king of France, and whomever, unfortunately as usual in this group. :-(



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From wanderer at dialup4less.com  Mon Feb  8 10:24:32 2010
From: wanderer at dialup4less.com (Wanderer)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:24:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2003.1265401605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9b67e5f-cda9-4499-a773-0e0e8a26ca85@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2011.1265406841.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<36952f27-c825-4ab8-bd2e-7dff097075fd@d30g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0434e8b6-fe13-4eed-97c7-090c1c2b0a3a@y7g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 5, 5:21?pm, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 4:53?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 5, 3:26?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> > >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Wanderer <wande... at dialup4less.com> wrote:
> > >> > Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> > >> > verbNoun?
>
> > >> > For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> > >> > but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> > >> > should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> > >> Use properties[1] and just call it `voltage`. Python is not Java [2];
> > >> explicit getters/setters are unpythonic.
>
> > >> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property
>
> > > Maybe I'm not using Get right either. I'm wrapping functions.
>
> > > ? ?def AbbeGet(self, Lens):
> > > ? ? ? ?"""
> > > ? ? ? ?Get the Abbe Number V for the material
> > > ? ? ? ?where
> > > ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> > > ? ? ? ?where the Index of Refractions are
> > > ? ? ? ?Nd at the Fraunhofer D line 0.5892um
> > > ? ? ? ?Nf at the Fraunhofer F line 0.4861um
> > > ? ? ? ?Nc at the Fraunhofer C line 0.6563um
> > > ? ? ? ?"""
>
> > > ? ? ? ?Nd = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.5892)
> > > ? ? ? ?Nf = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.4861)
> > > ? ? ? ?Nc = Lens.Mat.NtGet(0.6563)
>
> > > ? ? ? ?if (Nf - Nc) != 0:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ?V = (Nd - 1)/(Nf - Nc)
> > > ? ? ? ?else:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ?V = 1e6
>
> > > ? ? ? ?return V
>
> > This isn't even really a method; you don't refer to "self" in the body
> > at all. Why isn't it just a function?
>
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > --http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> Okay, I guess it should be a function called abbe() instead of a
> method called AbbeGet(). That should solve the problem of trying to
> remember whether I called it GetAbbe or AbbeGet.
>
> Thanks

Actually I decided it still should be a method, just not of doublet
but of Lens. so the calls change from

V1 = self.AbbeGet(Lens1)
V2 = self.AbbeGet(Lens2)

V1 = self.Lens1.abbe()
V2 = self.Lens2.abbe()



From boblatest at googlemail.com  Mon Feb  8 10:50:55 2010
From: boblatest at googlemail.com (boblatest)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 07:50:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Create a backslash-escaped version of a string?
References: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2150.1265628523.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <21d5019a-95ed-4c28-8c8e-8f2a6b9fc050@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 12:28?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> print a.encode("string-escape")

How could I miss that? I was on that doc page already. Should have
typed "/escape" in the browser ;-)

Thanks,
robert


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  8 11:02:54 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:02:54 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>	
	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>
	<8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7035AE.2020500@islandtraining.com>

Craig Berry wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 22:26, Gary Herron <gherron at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Didn't I answer this already?
>>     
>
> If you did, for whatever reason I didn't see it; I just rechecked my
> inbox to be sure. Thanks for doing so again!
>
> I assume, given the list we're on, that Freeglut can be used with
> Python.  I'll look into it.  Thanks for the pointer!
>
>   
Yes, easily.   PyOpenGL has bindings for all the procedures in 
GLUT/FREEGLUT.  Just tell PyOpenGL to use the freeglut library instead, 
or even just copy freeglut (.dll or .so or whatever) over your existing 
glut library (glut32.dll or whatever).  It really can serve as a binary 
drop in replacement.

Gary Herron



From james at agentultra.com  Mon Feb  8 11:21:07 2010
From: james at agentultra.com (J Kenneth King)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:21:07 -0500
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6fd27e$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<7xeikw2ivk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <85zl3ju2a4.fsf@agentultra.com>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> writes:

> Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> writes:
>> Well, if multi-core performance is so important here, then there's a pretty
>> simple thing the OP can do: switch to lxml.
>>
>> http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/
>
> Well, lxml is uses libxml2, a fast XML parser written in C, but AFAIK it
> only works on well-formed XML.  The point of Beautiful Soup is that it
> works on all kinds of garbage hand-written legacy HTML with mismatched
> tags and other sorts of errors.  Beautiful Soup is slower because it's
> full of special cases and hacks for that reason, and it is written in
> Python.  Writing something that complex in C to handle so much
> potentially malicious input would be quite a lot of work to write at
> all, and very difficult to ensure was really safe.  Look at the many
> browser vulnerabilities we've seen over the years due to that sort of
> problem, for example.  But, for web crawling, you really do need to
> handle the messy and wrong HTML properly.

If the difference is great enough, you might get a benefit from
analyzing all pages with lxml and throwing invalid pages into a bucket
for later processing with BeautifulSoup.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 11:22:40 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 08:22:40 -0800
Subject: threading+popen2 hang
References: <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0cbf@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkmo2r$65o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2542cf60-a193-4087-a1fe-1d60ee13c630@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkpdog$rqc$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <2542cf60-a193-4087-a1fe-1d60ee13c630 at v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
lofic  <louis.coilliot at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 7 f=E9v, 17:00, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article <188bfb67-3334-4325-adfc-3fa4d28f0... at d27g2000yqn.googlegroups=
>.com>,
>> lofic =A0<louis.coill... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Works fine on RHEL5/python 2.4.3
>>>Hangs on RHEL4/python 2.3.4
>>
>> Then use Python 2.4 -- surely you don't expect anyone to provide bugfixes
>> for a release that's several years old?
>
>2.3 is the version provided with RHEL 4, which is still widely used in
>production environments. Sometimes it is not so easy to shift to
>another version in production systems.

Believe me, I'm well aware of that (my last job was also stuck on 2.3).
Nevertheless, the pool of people familiar with the minutiae of bugs for
both Python 2.3 and 2.4 is dwindling daily, and your best recourse is
intensive Googling.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From misceverything at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 11:37:38 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:37:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<5af715b7-61d3-4283-bd23-cead735195bc@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<959b345f-92a9-4ab4-9d0a-771baaa54272@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> 
	<b0340314-a7af-4798-9634-1855d0d9eac9@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<811dd4e9-6eea-4c1f-a24b-ba0179e57f84@a13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com> 
	<f5f45f07-4853-4844-996a-dbef9b93cbae@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a9ddbc28-3f27-4884-994b-dea5c313d994@b18g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 1:28?am, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 4:57?pm, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the suggestions - ?I think my next step is to try running
> > it under an admin user account, as you guys both mentioned. ?Alf -
> > you're absolutely right, Microsoft has srvany.exe, which allows you to
> > run any EXE as a Windows service. ?I've done this in the past, but
> > it's more of a "hack"..so this go around (since I will be distributing
> > this program), I wanted to go the more professional route..which,
> > unfortunately, involves learning the "scum". :) ?I ?posted this to
> > comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32, so we'll see if what the Win32
> > programmers have to say as well. ?Thanks again!
>
> I use windows services and they are very reliable. ?I would say though
> that relying on plink.exe is much less reliable than either python or
> the service that it is running under.
>
> Why not take a look at paramiko as the ssh client library? ?I think it
> runs under windows. ?Also perhaps Twisted has something. ?Either way
> would be light years ahead of using subprocess with plink.
>
> Just my thoughts.
>
> ~Sean

I totally agree that it would be much more reliable to use a Python
library for SSH - however, the program will need to execute other
external binaries as well.  So my goal at this point is to track down
_why_ it's failing when running as a service.  The actual command is
as follows:

C:\plink.exe -R 9999:127.0.0.1:2020 -batch -i C:\keyfile.ppk
user at 10.10.10.1

I tried having subprocess.Popen run plink.exe by itself and piping
output to file, and this worked - so I know it's at least executing
plink.exe.  Sorry, I realize this isn't truly just a Python-related
question, but any help would be greatly appreciated!  So far no help
at comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32..


From jkrukoff at ltgc.com  Mon Feb  8 11:43:10 2010
From: jkrukoff at ltgc.com (John Krukoff)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:43:10 -0700
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <7xeikw2ivk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xbpg5dazb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<4b6fd27e$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<7xeikw2ivk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1265647390.10548.1804.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 01:10 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> writes:
> > Well, if multi-core performance is so important here, then there's a pretty
> > simple thing the OP can do: switch to lxml.
> >
> > http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/
> 
> Well, lxml is uses libxml2, a fast XML parser written in C, but AFAIK it
> only works on well-formed XML.  The point of Beautiful Soup is that it
> works on all kinds of garbage hand-written legacy HTML with mismatched
> tags and other sorts of errors.  Beautiful Soup is slower because it's
> full of special cases and hacks for that reason, and it is written in
> Python.  Writing something that complex in C to handle so much
> potentially malicious input would be quite a lot of work to write at
> all, and very difficult to ensure was really safe.  Look at the many
> browser vulnerabilities we've seen over the years due to that sort of
> problem, for example.  But, for web crawling, you really do need to
> handle the messy and wrong HTML properly.
> 

Actually, lxml has an HTML parser which does pretty well with the
standard level of broken one finds most often on the web. And, when it
falls down, it's easy to integrate BeautifulSoup as a slow backup for
when things go really wrong (as J Kenneth King mentioned earlier):

http://codespeak.net/lxml/lxmlhtml.html#parsing-html

At least in my experience, I haven't actually had to parse anything that
lxml couldn't handle yet, however.
-- 
John Krukoff <jkrukoff at ltgc.com>
Land Title Guarantee Company



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  8 11:52:17 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:52:17 -0500
Subject: C/C++ Import
In-Reply-To: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkpffr$7tv$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/7/2010 10:56 PM, 7H3LaughingMan wrote:
> To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
> program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
> since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
> designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
> release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
> got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
> needs.
>
> The program is running the following code...
> PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );
>
> This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
> folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
> PyErr_Print())
> ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager
>
> I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
> how to do a proper import?

Your 'python' package directory must be in a directory listed in 
sys.path. I would print that check.



From misceverything at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:05:05 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:05:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<0795c4c2-bfd4-4372-903e-a91e45b37d50@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> 
	<Xns9D195B78DC620duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7c8003e9-5813-4891-bcc8-6e00e69740b2@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 4:00?am, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Oops, this one was my fault - the object I was having the issues with
> > was actually a shelve file, not a dictionary..so just re-assigning the
> > variable isn't working, but re-writing the object to the shelve file
> > does. ?So in this case, is there any way to just change a single
> > value, or am I stuck rewriting the entry?
>
> Either open the shelve with writeback=True or rewrite the entry.
> Rewriting the entry isn't hard: you can just re-use the same value:
>
> def changevalue():
> ? ? for key in mytest.keys():
> ? ? ? ? temp = mytest[key]
> ? ? ? ? temp.param3 = "newvalue"
> ? ? ? ? mytest[key] = temp
>
> If you really are changing every item in the shelve using writeback=True
> will be much simpler, but if you are only changing a few then just tell the
> shelve that you've updated them as above.
>
> --
> Duncan Boothhttp://kupuguy.blogspot.com


Duncan - Thanks for your help.  So each of the shelve entries I'm
modifying look something like this:  myshelve[key] =
TestClassObject(param1, param2, param3, param4, param5, etc.).  In
this case, with quite a few parameters, would you suggest setting
writeback=True and just modifying the needed value, or rewriting the
entire entry?  I have to admit the writeback option looks good, and if
the TestClassObject format ever changes (i.e. if I ever change the
order of the params), this particular function will be unchanged.
However, I don't know what the performance hit would be in using it.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:07:56 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:07:56 +0100
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkpgbg$bab$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100, mk wrote:
> 
>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/
> choose_python.pdf
>>>
>> Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored.
>> Oh well..
> 
> With an attitude like that, you're damn lucky if you don't get kill-
> filed. It was SIX MINUTES since you posted your question about timers, 
> what did you expect?

I didn't expect immediate answer to this particular question. I have 
repeatedly asked many questions about threads in the past, and IIRC 
every one of them was ignored.

> 
> Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might never 
> get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after six DAYS 
> might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but after six 
> minutes?

Well, it's 4 days now. I would be happy to get 50% response rate. 
Apparently nobody is really using threads.

regards,
mk





From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 12:12:46 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 09:12:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <a2771bdf-2de3-41b6-b980-17ec9c31e416@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> I don't read it that way. There's a huge difference between
>
> - generating HTML manually and validating (some of) it in a unit test
>
> and
>
> - generating HTML using a tool that guarantees correct HTML output
>
> the advantage of the second approach being that others have already done
> all the debugging for you.

Anyone TDDing around HTML or XML should use or fork my assert_xml()
(from django-test-extensions).

The current version trivially detects a leading <html> tag and uses
etree.HTML(xml); else it goes with the stricter etree.XML(xml). The
former will not complain about the provided sample HTML.

Sadly, the industry has such a legacy of HTML written in Notepad that
well-formed (X)HTML will never be well-formed XML. My own action item
here is to apply Stefan's parser_options suggestion to make the
etree.HTML() stricter.

However, a generator is free to produce arbitrarily restricted XML
that avoids the problems with XHTML. It could, for example, push any
Javascript that even dreams of using & instead of &amp; out into .js
files.

So an assert_xml() hot-wired to process only XML - with the true HTML
doctype - is still useful to TDD generated code, because its XPath
reference will detect that you get the nodes you expect.

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  8 12:31:13 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:31:13 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.08.04.01.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B704A61.7070405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:51:05 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> How do I get a pointer in pure Python code (no ctypes)? I tried both 
> Pascal and C syntax (^x and *x), but both give syntax errors.
> 
In Pascal it's x^.

> For that matter, how do I get a pointer in Java code?
> 
> If Python doesn't have pointers, then why are you talking about Python 
> passing pointers? It's a vacuous truth, like saying that Python passes 
> dinosaurs by name.
> 



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  8 12:33:45 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:33:45 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkpa64$43s$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2155.1265630440.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkpa64$43s$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B704AF9.2030804@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Steve Holden:
>> [...]
>>>> Alf:
>>>>
>>>> This topic was discussed at great, nay interminable, length about a 
>>>> year
>>>> ago. I'd appreciate it if you would search the archives and read what
>>>> was said then rather than hashing the whole topic over again to 
>>>> nobody's
>>>> real advantage.
>>> Well that's my point, and thanks for backing me up on that :-): it's
>>> very simple, and as demonstrated can be expressed in 10 words or less
>>> (plus perhaps a terminology reference, as I did above), so all that
>>> discussion and in particular the lengthy article at effbot serves as
>>> obfuscation and nothing else.
>>>
>> Please don't assume I was trying to support you. Your remarks showed
>> considerable ignorance of issue that were extremely nuanced. Whatever
>> point you were trying to make was lost in your self-aggrandizing
>> disrespect of Fredrik Lundh, a software engineer of some repute with a
>> long history of contribution to Python. The fact that your post was
>> basically a restatement of one of the several competing positions in
>> that thread makes it no more right than any of the others.
> 
> What on Earth are you babbling about?
> 
> Perhaps next you'll drag in the Pope, saying I've shown him some 
> disrespect.
> 
> News for you: the Pope ain't participating.
> 
[snip]

The Pope isn't (as far as we know) a Pythonista.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb  8 12:57:45 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 17:57:45 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2133.1265594874.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknses$vqg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2134.1265598270.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hko0af$rs2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0795c4c2-bfd4-4372-903e-a91e45b37d50@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D195B78DC620duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<7c8003e9-5813-4891-bcc8-6e00e69740b2@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D19B6BA2310Aduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
> Duncan - Thanks for your help.  So each of the shelve entries I'm
> modifying look something like this:  myshelve[key]
> TestClassObject(param1, param2, param3, param4, param5, etc.).  In 
> this case, with quite a few parameters, would you suggest setting 
> writeback=True and just modifying the needed value, or rewriting the 
> entire entry?  I have to admit the writeback option looks good, and if
> the TestClassObject format ever changes (i.e. if I ever change the
> order of the params), this particular function will be unchanged.
> However, I don't know what the performance hit would be in using it.

Only you know your data and pattern of use. Try a few tests to get a feel 
of the trade-offs between explicitly flagging items as changed or using 
writeback=True.


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 13:16:22 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:16:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<a2771bdf-2de3-41b6-b980-17ec9c31e416@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5e67584b-2421-4254-addf-b4a355836a20@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

and the tweak is:

                parser = etree.HTMLParser(recover=False)
                return etree.HTML(xml, parser)

That reduces tolerance. The entire assert_xml() is (apologies for
wrapping lines!):

    def _xml_to_tree(self, xml):
        from lxml import etree
        self._xml = xml

        try:
            if '<html' in xml[:200]:  #  NOTE the condition COULD suck
more!
                parser = etree.HTMLParser(recover=False)
                return etree.HTML(xml, parser)
                return etree.HTML(xml)
            else:
                return etree.XML(xml)

        except ValueError:  #  TODO  don't rely on exceptions for
normal control flow
            tree = xml
            self._xml = str(tree)  #  CONSIDER  does this reconstitute
the nested XML ?
            return tree

    def assert_xml(self, xml, xpath, **kw):
        'Check that a given extent of XML or HTML contains a given
XPath, and return its first node'

        tree = self._xml_to_tree(xml)
        nodes = tree.xpath(xpath)
        self.assertTrue(len(nodes) > 0, xpath + ' not found in ' +
self._xml)
        node = nodes[0]
        if kw.get('verbose', False):  self.reveal_xml(node)  #  "here
have ye been? What have ye seen?"--Morgoth
        return node

    def reveal_xml(self, node):
        'Spews an XML node as source, for diagnosis'

        from lxml import etree
        print etree.tostring(node, pretty_print=True)  #  CONSIDER
does pretty_print work? why not?

    def deny_xml(self, xml, xpath):
        'Check that a given extent of XML or HTML does not contain a
given XPath'

        tree = self._xml_to_tree(xml)
        nodes = tree.xpath(xpath)
        self.assertEqual(0, len(nodes), xpath + ' should not appear in
' + self._xml)


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Feb  8 14:04:19 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:04:19 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 08.02.10 02:51, schrieb Alf P. Steinbach:
> * Chris Rebert:
>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>> missing. I have a class Test, for example:
>>>
>>> class Test:
>>> def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>> self.param1 = param1
>>> self.param2 = param2
>>> self.param3 = param3
>>>
>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test. If
>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>> value, not reference)?
>>
>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>> of what Python does use.
>
> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to
> the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>
> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>
> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to
> point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are
> called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for
> Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's
> just one extra little para.
>
> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
>
> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.

Whao. You just needed 10 words, plus a paragraph to explain something in 
terms of a spec that's just about 600 pages strong. Amazing display of 
conciseness, and certainly the most valuable thing for some programming 
newbie to work with. Thanks!

Diez


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 14:10:00 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:10:00 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Diez B. Roggisch:
> Am 08.02.10 02:51, schrieb Alf P. Steinbach:
>> * Chris Rebert:
>>> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 5:05 PM, T <misceverything at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok, just looking for a sanity check here, or maybe something I'm
>>>> missing. I have a class Test, for example:
>>>>
>>>> class Test:
>>>> def __init__(self, param1, param2, param3):
>>>> self.param1 = param1
>>>> self.param2 = param2
>>>> self.param3 = param3
>>>>
>>>> Next, I have a dictionary mytest that contains instances of Test. If
>>>> I want to modify one of the Test instances within my dictionary, I
>>>> have to rewrite the entire entry, correct (since Python passes by
>>>> value, not reference)?
>>>
>>> Incorrect; Python uses neither. See
>>> http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm for a excellent explanation
>>> of what Python does use.
>>
>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to
>> the point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
>>
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>
>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-) Or perhaps some more words to
>> point out that in the Java language spec those reference values are
>> called pointers, but that this terminology isn't (apparently) used for
>> Python, and isn't even well known among Java programmers. But that's
>> just one extra little para.
>>
>> One just has to be clear about exactly what it is that's passed by value.
>>
>> Not Python objects, but references (pointers) to them, the id(o) values.
> 
> Whao. You just needed 10 words, plus a paragraph to explain something in 
> terms of a spec that's just about 600 pages strong. Amazing display of 
> conciseness, and certainly the most valuable thing for some programming 
> newbie to work with. Thanks!

I apologize for assuming that "pointer" is a known word to [c.l.p.] denizens.

But, if it can help, although for clarity I had to provide a concrete reference, 
you don't need to read the complete Java language spec to understand that word.

Just Google it.


Cheers & hth.,

- ALf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Feb  8 14:21:15 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:21:15 -0300
Subject: Import question
References: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
	<5d1b76f61002080137o6e3f9a1fjdab8bcf8d3959faf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7tpdpz4x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:37:53 -0300, Andrew Degtiariov
<andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com> escribi?:
> 2010/2/6 Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar>
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:21:47 -0300, Andrew Degtiariov
>> <andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>
>>
>>> Code of our project has split into several packages and we deploy the
>>> project using buildout.
>>> All worked fine until I need to dynamically inspect python modules.
>> Entirely by luck, I'd say :)
>>
>>
>>  ????project.api.config
>>> ?   ????project
>>> ?   ?   ????api
>>> ?   ?       ????config
>>> ?   ?           ????settings
>>> ?   ????project.api.config.egg-info
>>> ????project.api.contacts
>>> ?   ????project
>>> ?   ?   ????api
>>> ?   ?       ????contacts
>>> ?   ?           ????importer
>>> ?   ?           ????views
>>> ?   ????project.api.contacts.egg-info
>>>

> If someone is interesting - __import__ works but imp doesn't.
> In my example:
>>>> m = __import__('project.api.config')
>>>> m
> <module 'project from
> 'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\__init__.pyc'>
>>>> m.api
> <module 'project.api from
> 'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.contacts\project\api\__init__.pyc'>
>>>> m.api.config
> <module 'project.api.config'
> from'c:\users\ad\project\src\project.api.config\project\api\config\__init__.pyc'>
>
> Please note that the m and m.api pointed to first installing package with
> namespace project.api but m.api.config have pointed to the proper file.
>
> And releasing code with several distributions it is one of goals of
> Distribute. And you might look to pypi for... zope. There is lot of  
> package
> which names starts from "zope."
> It's really convenient

Those are called namespace packages. Zope and Plone (ab)use them
extensively. The intended usage is to break up a big, monolithic package
[0] in parts that can be distributed independently. To implement a
namespace package, you need an empty __init__.py file with only these
lines [1]:

   from pkgutil import extend_path
__path__ = extend_path(__path__, __name__)

But think carefully if you really need namespace packages; they solve a
specific problem, aren't a general purpose technique. See [2] for a
discussion.

[0] Think of a huge behemoth with a "Z O P E" sign on both sides :)
[1] http://docs.python.org/library/pkgutil.html
[2] http://weblion.psu.edu/news/are-we-overusing-namespace-packages

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From db3l.net at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 14:25:09 2010
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:25:09 -0500
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>

T <misceverything at gmail.com> writes:

> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
> an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
> service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
> would be the best way around this?  Thanks!

The LocalSystem account is not, if I recall correctly, permitted to
access the network.

You'll have to install the service to run under some other account that
has appropriate access to the network.

-- David


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 14:28:53 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:28:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 8 f?v, 11:57, Klaus Neuner <klausneune... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
>
> if file.endswith('xyz'):
> ? ? xyz(file)
> elif file.endswith('abc'):
> ? ? abc(file)
>
> ...
>
> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
>
> func = file[-3:]
> apply_func(func, file)
>
> Can something of this kind be done in Python?


and with eval(), did you try ?

import sys

def functext():
    print "texte"

def funcdoc():
    print "doc"

def funcabc():
    print "abc"


if __name__ == "__main__":
    #replace filename with suitable value
    filename = sys.argv[1].split('.')[1]
    try:
        eval('func' + filename + '()')
    except:
        print 'error'



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  8 14:47:40 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:47:40 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B706A5C.2080506@islandtraining.com>

OdarR wrote:
> On 8 f?v, 11:57, Klaus Neuner <klausneune... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am writing a program that analyzes files of different formats. I
>> would like to use a function for each format. Obviously, functions can
>> be mapped to file formats. E.g. like this:
>>
>> if file.endswith('xyz'):
>>     xyz(file)
>> elif file.endswith('abc'):
>>     abc(file)
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Yet, I would prefer to do something of the following kind:
>>
>> func = file[-3:]
>> apply_func(func, file)
>>
>> Can something of this kind be done in Python?
>>     

I may have missed a bit of this thread -- so I have to ask:  Has anyone 
mentioned using getattr yet?  It's a way of looking up *any* attribute 
using a string to specify the name.  Like this for your particular example:

class Functions:  # This could be a module instead of a class
  def xyz(...):
      ...
  def abc(...):
      ...
  ... and so on ...


ext = os.path.splitext(file) # Parses out the extension
fn = getattr(Functions, ext) # Lookup the correct function
fn(...) # and call it

Gary Herron




From gnewsg at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:04:12 2010
From: gnewsg at gmail.com (Giampaolo Rodola')
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:04:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: setuptools/distutil and pywin32
Message-ID: <04946f8f-46c0-4e90-b0cb-26a44e6c0323@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I have a program which requires pywin32 as a dependancy and I'd like
to make setuptools automatically retrieve it from internet and install
it.
My setup.py script looks like this:


from setuptools import setup

     setup(
          ...
          ...
          install_requires = ['pywin32']
          ...
     )

When I run setup.py install I get this error:


Processing dependencies for psutil==0.1.3
Searching for pywin32
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/pywin32/
Reading http://sf.net/projects/pywin32
Reading http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=78018
Best match: pywin32 214
Downloading http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/files/pywin32/Build%20214/pywin32-214.win32-py2.6.exe
download
Processing download
error: Not a recognized archive type: c:\users\giampa~1\appdata\local
\temp\easy_
install-xefzrd\download


I've googled a lot about this but it seems that as of right now it's
just not possible to install pywin32 via setuptools but it seems
pretty strange to me as it is a very important third party module.

Can someone confirm to me that there's no way to solve this problem?


Thanks in advance,

----

Giampaolo
http://code.google.com/p/psutil
http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:06:26 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:06:26 -0500
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <hkpgbg$bab$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkpgbg$bab$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002081206v27165106v31da1cf19192a4c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:07 PM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100, mk wrote:
>>
>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/
>>
>> choose_python.pdf
>>>>
>>> Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored.
>>> Oh well..
>>
>> With an attitude like that, you're damn lucky if you don't get kill-
>> filed. It was SIX MINUTES since you posted your question about timers,
>> what did you expect?
>
> I didn't expect immediate answer to this particular question. I have
> repeatedly asked many questions about threads in the past, and IIRC every
> one of them was ignored.
>
>>
>> Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might never
>> get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after six DAYS
>> might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but after six
>> minutes?
>
> Well, it's 4 days now. I would be happy to get 50% response rate. Apparently
> nobody is really using threads.
>
> regards,
> mk

I use threads.

Geremy Condra


From pwashington85 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:16:24 2010
From: pwashington85 at gmail.com (spike)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:16:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Does anyone have a Python Logic Map/Flow Chart? (Example Provided)
Message-ID: <05a9edbc-63e9-4155-833c-15cf5dacd7ea@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or flow chart?

An example can be seen here on the right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

This would be very helpful for users.


From pwashington85 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:20:15 2010
From: pwashington85 at gmail.com (spike)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:20:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
Message-ID: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
flow chart?

An example can be seen on the right under History:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History

This would be very helpful for all users.


From invalid at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:36:43 2010
From: invalid at gmail.com (Dave Peterson)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:36:43 -0800
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer -
	non-working examples
Message-ID: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Page 7: Very first example doesn't compile: syntax error
Pate 11: 2nd example: syntax error
Page 12, printing digits: syntax error
Page 13, printing a number: syntax error
page 14, statements: syntax error







From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Feb  8 15:45:05 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:45:05 -0500
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer - 
	non-working examples
In-Reply-To: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002081245n642e7f77yaa469b1978134745@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Dave Peterson <invalid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Page 7: Very first example doesn't compile: syntax error
> Pate 11: 2nd example: syntax error
> Page 12, printing digits: syntax error
> Page 13, printing a number: syntax error
> page 14, statements: syntax error
>

Let me guess, you're using Python 3.1. That book was written for
Python 2.x and there were several backwards-incompatible changes. For
instance, print was changed from a statement to a function. Which is
why the "Hello, World" doesn't work any more. If you want to use the
older books, use Python 2.6 instead.

>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:52:20 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:52:20 -0600
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer -
	non-working examples
In-Reply-To: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hkpti3$ubo$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-08 14:36 PM, Dave Peterson wrote:
> Page 7: Very first example doesn't compile: syntax error
> Pate 11: 2nd example: syntax error
> Page 12, printing digits: syntax error
> Page 13, printing a number: syntax error
> page 14, statements: syntax error

This book was written for the 2.x versions of Python. Are you using Python 3.1? 
Python changed some of its syntax for version 3.0, notably

   print "Hello, world!"

becomes

   print("Hello, world!")

This accounts for all of the SyntaxErrors that you are seeing. The examples 
aren't broken for the version of Python it is teaching.

You may want to try _Dive Into Python 3_ to learn about Python 3 in particular:

   http://diveintopython3.org/

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:53:00 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:53:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer - 
	non-working examples
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <cadd33b2-59c3-4078-869b-5895a17ca492@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

The book covers Python 2.x syntax.

You might have downloaded Python 3.1, which has different syntax then
Python 2.x. From what I can tell, the first example on page 7 is ">>>
print 1 + 1".

Try issuing this command:
print(1 + 1)

If everything goes well, and you get '2' as the answer, then you're
probably using Python 3.x. You will have to download the Python 2.x
binaries from the Python website, install Python 2.x, and try the
example from the book again.


From vim at aryehleib.com  Mon Feb  8 15:54:15 2010
From: vim at aryehleib.com (Aryeh Leib Taurog)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:54:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: glibc detected double free or corruption
Message-ID: <2e4cd5eb-decf-43a9-8d2e-8d3b99134d50@19g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

I'm encountering the following error on my fastcgi web server and
would
greatly appreciate ANY pointers for debugging/fixing this problem.

*** glibc detected *** /usr/bin/python2.5: double free or corruption
(fasttop): 0x08b47d60 ***

If I don't set MALLOC_CHECK_ then the server just hangs and the above
message appears in the fastcgi error log.  With MALLOC_CHECK_=0 I get
an
error message in the browser instead.

I'm using the following components (on a shared hosting account):

Debian lenny 64 bit
Python 2.5.2
lighttpd 1.4.19
Django 1.1.1
latest flup (today's hg tip, flup-server-ae5fe54fba18)
postgresql 8.3.9
psycopg2 2.0.13

What's interesting about the problem is it seems to happen only when
new
fcgi processes are spawned and only when a db query is made.  That is,
the
frequency of the problem corresponds exactly with the maxrequests
setting
on my fcgi process.  If I set maxrequests to 1 then I get this error
for
each request that hits the database.  If I set it to 3 then I get the
error
with every third request, if that request hits the database.

If I put Django into DEBUG and set MALLOC_CHECK_=0 then I get the
following
error with traceback:

Exception Type:  OperationalError
Exception Value: server closed the connection unexpectedly
                 This probably means the server terminated abnormally
                 before or while processing the request.

Exception Location:	/home/altaurog/django/db/backends/util.py in
execute, line 19

Regardless of which url/view I request, the exception always is raised
on a
sql execute statement.

---
Aryeh Leib Taurog



From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Mon Feb  8 15:59:18 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:59:18 +0100
Subject: Ternary plus
Message-ID: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>

Just for the hell of it ...

I can easily define __plus__() with three parameters. If the last one is
optional the + operation works as expected. Is there a way to pass the
third argument to "+"


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Feb  8 16:13:33 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:13:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simulating logging.exception with another traceback
References: <0c13d3f7-addf-4972-91c3-6f41fadfb2b5@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3512c1a4-01e3-449d-8e48-e673e668bb17@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 7, 11:22?am, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would want to get the output from `logging.exception` but with
> traceback from the caller function (I've already all that
> information).
>
> This would be the error withlogging.exception:
> --------------------
> ERROR:
> ? PipeError('/bin/ls -l | ?', 'no command after of pipe')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
> 160, in __call__
> ? ? raise PipeError(command, 'no command after of pipe')
> PipeError: ('/bin/ls -l | ?', 'no command after of pipe')
> --------------------
>
> And I've trying it with:
> --------------------
> message = "File \"{0}\", line {1}, in {2}\n\n ?{3}".format(
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? file, line, function, caller)logging.error(message)
>
> ERROR:
> ? File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
> ? 163, in __call__ ? ?return self.throw(PipeError, command, 'no
> ? command after of pipe')
> --------------------
>
> Could be used `logging.LogRecord` [1] to get it? How?
>
> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#logging.LogRecord

Sorry, Joan,

I don't understand your question. Can you create a short script which
throws an exception, and show exactly how you want it formatted?

The logger.exception method does the same as logger.error, except that
it prints exception trace information and is intended to be called
from exception handling clauses. You can format exceptions how you
like by subclassing Formatter and overriding formatException.

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From dmalcolm at redhat.com  Mon Feb  8 16:14:08 2010
From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:14:08 -0500
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer - 
	non-working examples
In-Reply-To: <cadd33b2-59c3-4078-869b-5895a17ca492@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<cadd33b2-59c3-4078-869b-5895a17ca492@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1265663648.25625.233.camel@brick>

On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 12:53 -0800, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> The book covers Python 2.x syntax.
> 
> You might have downloaded Python 3.1, which has different syntax then
> Python 2.x. From what I can tell, the first example on page 7 is ">>>
> print 1 + 1".
> 
> Try issuing this command:
> print(1 + 1)
> 
> If everything goes well, and you get '2' as the answer, then you're
> probably using Python 3.x. You will have to download the Python 2.x
> binaries from the Python website, install Python 2.x, and try the
> example from the book again.

Sorry to nitpick; the main thrust of the above sounds correct, in that:
    print 1 + 1
works in Python 2 but fails in Python 3, but, a minor correction, note
that:
    print(1+1)
does work in Python 2 as well as in Python 3; the parentheses are
treated (in the former) as denoting grouping of a subexpression, rather
than function invocation (in the latter):

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jan 25 2010, 13:22:47) 
[GCC 4.4.2 20100121 (Red Hat 4.4.2-28)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print(1+1)
2

This can be useful if you're trying to write short fragments of code
that work with both.

Look at the startup message, or run this command, which should work on
both python2 and python3:
  import sys; print(sys.version)

Hope this is helpful
Dave



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:27:00 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:27:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Awful book warning: How to think like a (Python) programmer - 
	non-working examples
References: <hkpsjt$ibr$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<cadd33b2-59c3-4078-869b-5895a17ca492@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2177.1265663629.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ed94e364-b096-40c2-ac02-e42ec5568bb6@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 10:14?pm, David Malcolm <dmalc... at redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 12:53 -0800, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> > The book covers Python 2.x syntax.
>
> > You might have downloaded Python 3.1, which has different syntax then
> > Python 2.x. From what I can tell, the first example on page 7 is ">>>
> > print 1 + 1".
>
> > Try issuing this command:
> > print(1 + 1)
>
> > If everything goes well, and you get '2' as the answer, then you're
> > probably using Python 3.x. You will have to download the Python 2.x
> > binaries from the Python website, install Python 2.x, and try the
> > example from the book again.
>
> Sorry to nitpick; the main thrust of the above sounds correct, in that:
> ? ? print 1 + 1
> works in Python 2 but fails in Python 3, but, a minor correction, note
> that:
> ? ? print(1+1)
> does work in Python 2 as well as in Python 3; the parentheses are
> treated (in the former) as denoting grouping of a subexpression, rather
> than function invocation (in the latter):
>
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jan 25 2010, 13:22:47)
> [GCC 4.4.2 20100121 (Red Hat 4.4.2-28)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> print(1+1)
>
> 2
>
> This can be useful if you're trying to write short fragments of code
> that work with both.
>
> Look at the startup message, or run this command, which should work on
> both python2 and python3:
> ? import sys; print(sys.version)
>
> Hope this is helpful
> Dave

Oops, you're right. I'm used to Python 3 syntax so I'm only aware of
some basic differences. :)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 16:28:03 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 13:28:03 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
OdarR  <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>and with eval(), did you try ?

WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:28:54 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:28:54 -0600
Subject: Ternary plus
In-Reply-To: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <hkpvml$6ho$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-08 14:59 PM, Martin Drautzburg wrote:
> Just for the hell of it ...
>
> I can easily define __plus__() with three parameters. If the last one is
> optional the + operation works as expected. Is there a way to pass the
> third argument to "+"

No.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Mon Feb  8 16:35:10 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:35:10 -0800
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B70838E.4070700@islandtraining.com>

spike wrote:
> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
> flow chart?
>
> An example can be seen on the right under History:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>
> This would be very helpful for all users.
>   

Huh???  What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out? 

Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?

Gary Herron



From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:39:33 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 8 f?v, 22:28, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> OdarR ?<olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >and with eval(), did you try ?
>
> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question

warning : it works !
another question ?


> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> import antigravity



From andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:39:42 2010
From: andrew.degtiariov at gmail.com (Andrew Degtiariov)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:39:42 +0200
Subject: Import question
In-Reply-To: <op.u7tpdpz4x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
References: <5d1b76f61002050821p10d2b302wcf90d410b92f419@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7ow3gesx6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
	<5d1b76f61002080137o6e3f9a1fjdab8bcf8d3959faf@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.u7tpdpz4x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <5d1b76f61002081339u5648906bp282e5e7bddde1760@mail.gmail.com>

Those are called namespace packages. Zope and Plone (ab)use them

> extensively. The intended usage is to break up a big, monolithic package
> [0] in parts that can be distributed independently. To implement a
> namespace package, you need an empty __init__.py file with only these
> lines [1]:
>
>  from pkgutil import extend_path
> __path__ = extend_path(__path__, __name__)
>
> But think carefully if you really need namespace packages; they solve a
> specific problem, aren't a general purpose technique. See [2] for a
> discussion.
>
> [0] Think of a huge behemoth with a "Z O P E" sign on both sides :)
> [1] http://docs.python.org/library/pkgutil.html
> [2] http://weblion.psu.edu/news/are-we-overusing-namespace-packages
>
>
Hm.. We are using pkg_resources.declare_namespace(__name__) but I think
pkgutil is much better.
And we are using buildout so the omelette might help me. Link [2] very
interesting.
Thank you, Gabrial.

-- 
Andrew Degtiariov
DA-RIPE
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From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb  8 16:40:33 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:40:33 +1300
Subject: The Case For Do-Once
References: <hkoje5$4nf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <hkq0ci$v4s$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <hkoje5$4nf$1 at lust.ihug.co.nz>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> The basic control flow is this:
>     * Unconditionally initialize all dynamic storage to nil
>     * Do the main body of the code, aborting in any error
>     * Regardless of success or failure of the above, dispose of all
>       allocated dynamic storage, using disposal calls which turn into
>       noops if passed pointers that are already nil.

For more examples, see the spuhelper.c module here 
<http://github.com/ldo/dvd_menu_animator>.


From davodavo2 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 16:47:52 2010
From: davodavo2 at gmail.com (Davo)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:47:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Read PGM's with more than 256 range in PIL1.1.7
Message-ID: <24a311e0-963e-43a5-9d8f-3a573dbf5fe2@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have a PGM format image file with 4096 range.  When I reads it with
PIL, I get an image with 8-bit values and alternate columns are zero.
Does PIL support reading and writing PGM's with more than 8-bits?

Davo


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Feb  8 17:31:48 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:31:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Stephen -- Bruce?
References: <hkfkbg$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2a932e46-1b81-4a97-bbee-3bf92b3b1447@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd308$0$6722$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <54742c54-bf2d-4228-ad7c-d1dca1858775@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 3:02?am, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Mensanator, 05.02.2010 00:36:
>
> > On Feb 4, 5:13 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" wrote:
> >> What's this about all the Stephen'ses here?
>
> >> Shouldn't it be Bruce?
>
> > Of course. We just call everyone Stephen to avoid confusion.
>
> Some people even manage to adapt the spellings accordingly.
>
> Stefan

You appear to be confused.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 17:36:47 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 14:36:47 -0800
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkq3lv$7k2$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Sean DiZazzo  <half.italian at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 3, 6:08=A0pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
>Why did Path() get rejected?  Is it the idea itself, or just the
>approach that was used?  What are the complaints?

You should search for the discussiona around it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 17:43:46 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 14:43:46 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637 at f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
OdarR  <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 8 f=E9v, 22:28, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups=
>.com>,
>> OdarR =A0<olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>and with eval(), did you try ?
>>
>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>
>warning : it works !

Works for what?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 17:46:36 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:46:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkq3lv$7k2$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <9a2b87ca-abd4-4d5d-9fca-9ebee8a44730@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 2:36?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> >> There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:
> >>http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
> >Why did Path() get rejected? ?Is it the idea itself, or just the
> >approach that was used? ?What are the complaints?
>
> You should search for the discussiona around it.

I, OTOH, am burning rubber with Python 2.6.1, so leading edge concerns
are not mine - yet!

I went with this version, generously ripped out & plopped into our
project:

# URL:     http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path
# Author:  Jason Orendorff <jason at jorendorff.com> (and others - see
the url!)
# Date:    7 Mar 2004

class path(_base):
    """ Represents a filesystem path.
    """

Gods bless http://www.google.com/codesearch, huh?!

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  8 17:50:02 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:50:02 +0000
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <f3cc57c61002081206v27165106v31da1cf19192a4c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hkpgbg$bab$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<f3cc57c61002081206v27165106v31da1cf19192a4c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B70951A.90805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

geremy condra wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:07 PM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:29:07 +0100, mk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www1.american.edu/academic.depts/cas/econ/faculty/isaac/
>>> choose_python.pdf
>>>> Choose to get your difficult questions about threads in Python ignored.
>>>> Oh well..
>>> With an attitude like that, you're damn lucky if you don't get kill-
>>> filed. It was SIX MINUTES since you posted your question about timers,
>>> what did you expect?
>> I didn't expect immediate answer to this particular question. I have
>> repeatedly asked many questions about threads in the past, and IIRC every
>> one of them was ignored.
>>
>>> Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might never
>>> get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after six DAYS
>>> might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but after six
>>> minutes?
>> Well, it's 4 days now. I would be happy to get 50% response rate. Apparently
>> nobody is really using threads.
>>
>> regards,
>> mk
> 
> I use threads.
> 
So do I, where appropriate.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 17:50:21 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 14:50:21 -0800
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkq4fd$qhv$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b at o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Julian  <mailings at julianmoritz.de> wrote:
>
>I want to design a poster for an open source conference, the local
>usergroup will have a table there, and in the past years there were
>some people that came to the python-table just to ask "why should I
>use python?".

Readability
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb  8 18:24:01 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Feb 2010 15:24:01 -0800
Subject: Building a multiline string
References: <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkq6eh$8fq$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <cd36d2f3-fdd0-4dd0-ad60-d4d7500e3306 at l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
lallous  <lallous at lgwm.org> wrote:
>
>x = (
>"line1" # can use comments
>"line2"
>"line3"
>)

You should indent the second and following lines (I changed the name to
"xyz" to make clear that the following lines use a regular Python indent
rather than lining up under the open paren):

xyz = (
    "line1" # can use comments
    "line2"
    "line3"
    )
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 18:46:47 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Feb 2010 23:46:47 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
Message-ID: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a

obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption 
algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.

obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
 - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
 - atbash
 - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
 - Railfence (encryption only)
 - Keyword
 - Affine
 - Vigenere
 - frob (xor)

and others.

DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be 
used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate 
may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used 
where strong encryption is required.

obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.

Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 19:26:18 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 16:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 4, 7:10?pm, Sean DiZazzo <half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 6:08?pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 4, 8:47?am, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yes, calling os.path.walk() and os.path.join() all the time on raw
> > > strings is fun, but I seem to recall from my Ruby days a class called
> > > Pathname, which presented an object that behaved like a string at
> > > need, and like a filesystem path at need. path + 'folder' would
> > > call .join() and insert the / correctly, for example.
>
> > > What's the best equivalent in Python-land?
>
> > It's no longer supported, but the 3rd party 'path' module used to be
> > the go-to module for this:
>
> > >>> from path import path
>
> > C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\path.py:32: DeprecationWarning: the md5
> > module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
> > ? import sys, warnings, os, fnmatch, glob, shutil, codecs, md5>>> c = path('C:\\')
> > >>> c.listdir()
>
> > [path(u'C:\\AUTOEXEC.BAT'), path(u'C:\\boot.ini'), ...]>>> (c + 'python26').listdir()
>
> > [path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
> > \python26\\DLLs'), ...]>>> (c / 'python26').listdir()
>
> > [path(u'C:\\python26\\circuits.pth_disabled_for_egg'), path(u'C:\
> > \python26\\DLLs'), ...]
>
> > I've hand edited the results for brevity...
>
> > The module could do with some TLC to bring it up to date, but warning
> > aside it still seems to work fine under 2.6.
>
> > (From memory, I think the original author gave up when it became clear
> > it would never be integrated into the standard lib[1], which is a
> > shame, I think there's scope for a pathtools addition to the lib that
> > provides this level of convenience...)
>
> > There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
> > Hope this helps.
>
> It's too bad that something like this can't be agreed to. ?I used a
> homegrown module like this for a couple of years in my early days with
> python. ?It was great, but I didn't know enough at the time to make it
> really useful.
>
> Why did Path() get rejected? ?Is it the idea itself, or just the
> approach that was used? ?What are the complaints?

I don't know if it was the reason it was rejected, but a seriously
divisive question is whether the path should be a subset of string.

Under ordinary circumstances it would be a poor choice for inheritance
(only a few string methods would be useful fot a pathname), but some
people were fiercely adamant that paths should be passable to open()
as-in (without having to explicity convert to string).  IIRC, the guy
who maintained path wavered between subclassing and not subclassing
str.  I don't remember if the idea of modifying open to accept path
objects came up.


Carl Banks


From lists at cheimes.de  Mon Feb  8 19:29:01 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:29:01 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B70AC4D.6040008@cheimes.de>

Steven D'Aprano schrieb:
> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
> 
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
> 
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption 
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
> 
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>  - atbash
>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>  - Keyword
>  - Affine
>  - Vigenere
>  - frob (xor)

Nice work!

Your work should be interesting for everybody who has read Simon Sing's
"The Code Book: The Science of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum".

Christian


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 19:37:52 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:37:52 -0500
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002081637j3d091de6ne158bbb6aa8c173f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:46 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
>
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
>
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
> ?- Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
> ?- atbash
> ?- Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
> ?- Railfence (encryption only)
> ?- Keyword
> ?- Affine
> ?- Vigenere
> ?- frob (xor)
>
> and others.
>
> DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
> used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
> may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used
> where strong encryption is required.
>
> obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.
>
> Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.
>
>
> --
> Steven D'Aprano
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Nice! Maybe someday you can extend it with a pen-and-paper
signature scheme ;)

Geremy Condra


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 19:44:35 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:44:35 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> Hm. While most everything I've seen at effbot.org has been clear and to the
>> point, that particular article reads like a ton of obfuscation.
> 
> Must. Resist. Ad hominem.
> 
>> Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>>
>> There, it needed just 10 words or so. :-)
> 
> 10 words _plus_ an understanding of Java.

No, one only needs an understanding of "pointer".

"Pointer" is a mostly language independent concept.

The reference to the Java language spec, where that term is used for this, was 
just an unsuccessful attempt to keep out word-play arguments based on the 
incompatibility of some incompatible meaning of "pointer"...


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 20:08:00 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:08:00 -0500
Subject: Read PGM's with more than 256 range in PIL1.1.7
In-Reply-To: <24a311e0-963e-43a5-9d8f-3a573dbf5fe2@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <24a311e0-963e-43a5-9d8f-3a573dbf5fe2@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002081708w362fc0ccr26019221660ac5e3@mail.gmail.com>

According the pil manual it handles PGM files with "'1', 'L', or 'RGB' data"
which leads me to believe 16bit data is not supported.

You CAN write your own decoder for that though:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/pil/handbook/decoder.htm

It would be trivial to write a decoder for the pgm format.


On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Davo <davodavo2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a PGM format image file with 4096 range.  When I reads it with
> PIL, I get an image with 8-bit values and alternate columns are zero.
> Does PIL support reading and writing PGM's with more than 8-bits?
>
> Davo
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 20:31:35 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 01:31:35 GMT
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2170.1265648842.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.01.31.36@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:07:56 +0100, mk wrote:

>> Threads are hard, and many people don't use them at all. You might
>> never get an answer, even without alienating people. Complaining after
>> six DAYS might be acceptable, if you do it with a sense of humour, but
>> after six minutes?
> 
> Well, it's 4 days now. I would be happy to get 50% response rate.
> Apparently nobody is really using threads.

Please see my response to your post "timer for a function".

-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 20:36:48 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 01:36:48 GMT
Subject: timer for a function
References: <mailman.1986.1265390557.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.01.36.49@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:23:09 +0100, mk wrote:

[...]
> On paramiko mailing list I got the suggestion to build a timer and then
> quit this by myself:
> 
>> The timeout option in connect() is for the socket, not for the entire
>> operation. You are connected, so that timeout is no longer relevant.
>> You would probably have to wrap the transport.connect() method in a
>> timer to break out of this early.
> 
> Question: how can I do that? Use another threaded class? Is there some
> other way?

I don't use threads enough (or at all) to answer that question directly, 
but I can point you at these. Hopefully they will help, or at least give 
you some ideas:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/534115/
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/473878/

Found by googling for "python timeout any function".



> Additional snag is SSHClient() is a class that internally uses threads.
> How do I kill brutally its threads? Is there any way to do it?

You can't kill threads in Python. You have to ask them nicely to die.

Google on "python kill thread" for more.




-- 
Steven


From aonlazio at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 20:39:58 2010
From: aonlazio at gmail.com (AON LAZIO)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:39:58 -0500
Subject: Programing family
Message-ID: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>

I have thought funny things
If we think all languages are like a family
I could draft them like this (Python base)

C is Python's Mom
C++ : Dad
Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents
C#   : Uncle
Java : Ant
Ruby: Cousin
Perl : Girlfriend


What u guys think? XD
-- 
Passion is my style
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 20:49:39 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 01:49:39 GMT
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.01.49.40@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:59:18 +0100, Martin Drautzburg wrote:

> Just for the hell of it ...
> 
> I can easily define __plus__() with three parameters. If the last one is
> optional the + operation works as expected. Is there a way to pass the
> third argument to "+"

How do you give three operands to a binary operator? Binary operators 
only have two sides, a left and a right, so you can only fit two operands 
around them.

Mathematicians solve this problem by using functions:

add(a, b, c, d)

In Python, you can do this:

>>> class F:
...     def __add__(self, other, foo=None):
...             print self, other, foo
...             return 1
...
>>>
>>> F() + 3
<__main__.F instance at 0xb7f06f4c> 3 None
1
>>> F().__add__(3, 4)
<__main__.F instance at 0xb7f06d8c> 3 4
1



but if you do, people will laugh and point at you in the street.

*wink*


-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb  8 20:50:13 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:50:13 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B70BF55.90704@sequans.com>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> OdarR  <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> and with eval(), did you try ?
>>     
>
> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>   
Some say that eval is evil !

JM


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb  8 20:51:01 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 01:51:01 GMT
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:43:46 -0800, Aahz wrote:

>>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>>
>>warning : it works !
> 
> Works for what?

Code injection security bugs, of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_injection

It is surprisingly difficult to sanitize strings in Python to make them 
safe to pass to eval. Unless you are prepared to trust the input data 
explicitly, it's best to just avoid eval.



-- 
Steven


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 20:55:44 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:55:44 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> No, one only needs an understanding of "pointer".
>
> "Pointer" is a mostly language independent concept.
>
> The reference to the Java language spec, where that term is used for this,
> was just an unsuccessful attempt to keep out word-play arguments based on
> the incompatibility of some incompatible meaning of "pointer"...
>

The fact is, "pointer" is not really a language independent concept. Just
because a concept is used in multiple languages doesn't make it a general
purpose term that has a clear meaning that's defined in a well-understood
way. The last time I paid attention to one of your semantic arguments was
when you were talking about "routine", where that -was- a language
independent concept, but as wholly inappropriate to use in context of Python
as pass-by-value (especially due to ambiguity). You seem to have an idea of
a word in your head and a meaning and context, and are ignoring the fact
that there's a huge body of knowledge that places another context or meaning
on that word or phrase. Thus, the usage of that phrase actually -confuses-
and does not -clarify-.

The terms "call by reference" and "call by value" have *meaning* beyond the
purely abstract: they have meaning to semantics that people expect when you
use them, meaning to how the language works, and those meanings do *not*
apply to Python.

Python doesn't have pointers. That you can do id() and see something like a
memory address is a CPython implementation detail which is not guaranteed
and the fact that Python is implemented -in- a language which -does- have
pointers, and that implementation uses pointers beneath the Python level.
But the Python language (and CPython implementation) does -not- provide
pointers to us. We do not use pointers in any Python code we do.

To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort of
world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I have a
series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment where someone
comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The contents of these
boxes are mine alone!

To say, "pass by reference" implies other things to people. It describes a
sort of world where my desk doesn't have any boxes, really. It's got some
places for boxes, but when someone gives me something? They give me their
boxes too. The actual -stuff- in them I can swap between the two boxes if I
want, and when I give those boxes back to the one who called me? They'll be
swapped. That's a sort of defining characteristic of pass-by-reference
environments.

_Neither_ of these are accurate descriptions of Python's universe. You can
say, "its pass by value, just be specific that the value is..." but at that
point the statement is meaningless. You've taken a relatively
well-understood statement with certain meaning and a semantic weight behind
what it means, and just totally made it into something else entirely. By
changing the entire meaning of "value", from the value of the variable which
is copied, to the value of the memory address, you've changed -everything-
that 'pass by value' means. So you should use a different word.

Like, "objects" (or "sharing" is also used.)

Python has names, and objects. The guy over there has things on his desk,
with a label attached to it that has a name. He tosses it over to me, and I
get the same object he did-- no boxes. I put my own label on it, even though
he keeps hold of his label. I fiddle with it, and might toss it back. Or
might not, maybe I'll toss something else back. Either way, he still has it.

In Python, we get objects. Real objects. The original one. Its not a
pointer, its an object, that happens to have a label attached to it. It
doesn't have any idea what that label is, and it can't even find out. Its
not in any boxes owned by any functions, its just floating out there with
everything else, with lots of labels tied to it. Its just that when the last
one is cut, nothing else is holding it up, and it falls to the ground and
gets swept away.

That python is pass-by-objects is -really- important for people to
understand to really "get" python, and using other terms is /bad/ because it
makes them think of the semantics those terms imply. Because if you don't
-remember- and just instinctively -know- that Python is "pass-by-objects",
you'll forget the difference between passing an immutable and a mutable
object into a function, and be surprised by the result.

>>> import copy
>>> def doit(a):
...     a += a
...     return a
...
>>> test1 = 1
>>> test2 = doit(test1)
>>> test1
1
>>> test2
2
>>> test3 = [1]
>>> test4 = doit(test3)
>>> test3
[1, 1]
>>> test4
[1, 1]

I know you already know this, but the point is: you're -hurting- other
peoples understanding by using terms like this that don't apply to Python's
specific nature.

In Python, every function gets the original objects that you pass into it.
Some are immutable, some are mutable. With immutable ones, it might very
well seem like its pass-by-value and behaves like pass-by-value semantics,
but when you get mutable objects, that changes /quickly/. Changing "value"
to mean, "the memory address where the object is stored" just obfuscates the
entire point and doesn't actually explain what people need to understand in
this question.

--S
P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:03:32 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:03:32 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081803n858a715wc9baace9f6210c04@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steven at remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:43:46 -0800, Aahz wrote:
>
> >>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
> >>
> >>warning : it works !
> >
> > Works for what?
>
> Code injection security bugs, of course.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_injection
>
> It is surprisingly difficult to sanitize strings in Python to make them
> safe to pass to eval. Unless you are prepared to trust the input data
> explicitly, it's best to just avoid eval.
>

I'd make it a bit stronger: unless you are prepared to trust the input data
explicitly, and forever-- and extending that trust to whomever might in the
future be hired to work along, beside, under, or instead of you-- including
the fact that they may use your system or code in a different or new way to
get the data-- or how you may in the future decide to grow your system in
ways you're not today prepared for and are committed to do a complete review
of your entire codebase on every such change to ensure you don't leak some
potentially bad data down into such a place-- then you can use eval.
Otherwise, other solutions are better.

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:16:04 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:16:04 -0800
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <hkhd7t$opq$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkhd7t$opq$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081816r3b7a7c4fq5b079424dbd1f46e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 7:25 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I have a problem with a threaded program: it frequently hangs on sys.exit.
>

I use threads all the time (well, for certain types of workloads) and have
never seen this.

Are your threads daemon threads? The only time I've seen sys.exit() not
close out my program is when I'm launching non-daemon threads on accident.

Now, I do get some slightly random errors on close due to threads doing
stuff or returning from doing stuff while the shutdown procedure is going
on, but I don't really care, cuz, well, I'm shutting everything down and
nothing worth knowing is going on in the rest of the program.

--S
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Feb  8 21:19:57 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:19:57 -0600
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B70C64D.3020908@tim.thechases.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption 
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
> 
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>  - atbash
>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>  - Keyword
>  - Affine
>  - Vigenere
>  - frob (xor)

I prefer the strength of Triple ROT-13 for my obfuscation needs, 
but I don't see it listed here.  I guess I'll have to roll my own 
despite the dire warnings against amateur cryptographers 
authoring their own unvetted implementations.  ;-)

-tkc





From sccolbert at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:29:50 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:29:50 -0500
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <4B70C64D.3020908@tim.thechases.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B70C64D.3020908@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002081829i2333f8b3y791485074e35b4ca@mail.gmail.com>

I always though a double rot13 followed by a rot26 was the best?

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
>> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>>
>> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>>  - atbash
>>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>>  - Keyword
>>  - Affine
>>  - Vigenere
>>  - frob (xor)
>>
>
> I prefer the strength of Triple ROT-13 for my obfuscation needs, but I
> don't see it listed here.  I guess I'll have to roll my own despite the dire
> warnings against amateur cryptographers authoring their own unvetted
> implementations.  ;-)
>
> -tkc
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb  8 21:42:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:42:53 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
[...]
> P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
> 

And here I was, sitting on my hands ... but someone was wrong on the
Internet, so D'Aprano had to put them right. Your fatal weakness.

Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
word,' said Humpty ..."

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:44:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:44:17 -0800
Subject: timer for a function
In-Reply-To: <hkhk45$jvp$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkhk45$jvp$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081844h5a280e94k794ddc5d0df77610@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:23 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> On paramiko mailing list I got the suggestion to build a timer and then
> quit this by myself:
>
>  The timeout option in connect() is for the socket, not for the entire
>> operation. You are connected, so that timeout is no longer relevant.
>> You would probably have to wrap the transport.connect() method in a
>> timer to break out of this early.
>>
>
> Question: how can I do that? Use another threaded class? Is there some
> other way?
>

What OS? Does this have to be OS-independant? Are you using more then one
transport/SSLClient in your process and you want to just kill one (and any
of its child threads), or are you doing one per process?

If you want to terminate -all- threads your process is running in a given
timeframe, using a SIGALRM in the signal module will do it, I believe--
provided you don't need to support windows. I had a contextlib manager do
that for awhile. If you only want to terminate one (and its
child-threads)... you're out of luck, I think. The only way to terminate a
thread in Python is with conditions/events/whatever and the thread
cooperating and exiting on its own.

--S
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:46:05 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:46:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 12:59?pm, Martin Drautzburg <Martin.Drautzb... at web.de>
wrote:
> Just for the hell of it ...
>
> I can easily define __plus__() with three parameters. If the last one is
> optional the + operation works as expected. Is there a way to pass the
> third argument to "+"

If, for some reason, you wanted to define a type for which it makes
sense to "add" three objects, but not two, you can get the effect you
want, kind of.

(a + b + c) is useful
(a + b) is meaningless

You can have __add__ return a closure for the first addition, then
perform the operation on the second one.  Example (untested):

class Closure(object):
    def __init__(self,t1,t2):
        self.t1 = t1
        self.t2 = t2
    def __add__(self,t3):
        # whole operation peformed here
        return self.t1 + self.t2 + t3

class MySpecialInt(int):
    def __add__(self,other):
        return Closure(self,other)


I wouldn't recommend it.  Just use a function call with three
arguments.


Carl Banks


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:48:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:48:02 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Stephen Hansen wrote:
> [...]
> > P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
> >
>
> And here I was, sitting on my hands ... but someone was wrong on the
> Internet, so D'Aprano had to put them right. Your fatal weakness.
>
> Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
> word,' said Humpty ..."
>

This is getting out of hand.

First, someone thought I was you.

Now you think I'm D'Aprano.

I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on.

:)

--B
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:55:17 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:55:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <49d5eb96-1a07-47a3-bc7b-e54ab963151d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 12:20?pm, spike <pwashingto... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
> flow chart?
>
> An example can be seen on the right under History:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>
> This would be very helpful for all users.


Begin
  |
  |
  V
Start Editor
  |
  |
  V
Write Code <----+
  |             |
  |             |
  V             |
Run Python      |
  |             |
  |             | No.
  V             |
Did it do what you want?
  |
  | Yes.
  |
  V
Stop.


HTH.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:57:19 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0dc66912-76de-4979-b98d-8358436b8ee8@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 1:35?pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
> spike wrote:
> > Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
> > flow chart?
>
> > An example can be seen on the right under History:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>
> > This would be very helpful for all users.
>
> Huh??? ?What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>
> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?

Usenet servers.

Back in the day people had these in their .sigfiles


Carl Banks


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb  8 22:07:55 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:07:55 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B70D18B.5040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com 
> <mailto:steve at holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Stephen Hansen wrote:
>     [...]
>      > P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
>      >
> 
>     And here I was, sitting on my hands ... but someone was wrong on the
>     Internet, so D'Aprano had to put them right. Your fatal weakness.
> 
>     Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
>     word,' said Humpty ..."
> 
> 
> This is getting out of hand.
> 
> First, someone thought I was you.
> 
> Now you think I'm D'Aprano.
> 
> I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on. 
> 
> :)
> 
> --B
> 
Bruce would be less confusing. :-)


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 22:17:48 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:17:48 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4B70D18B.5040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B70D18B.5040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002081917m3e8f7afbw3f5b0d58edf6a509@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:07 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> This is getting out of hand.
>>
>> First, someone thought I was you.
>>
>> Now you think I'm D'Aprano.
>>
>> I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on.
>> :)
>>
>> --B
>>
>>  Bruce would be less confusing. :-)


I've heard that, and can't fathom the claim. I've only ever met a single
Bruce in my entire life, though I've seen a couple on the 'net. Maybe its
geographical, and Bruce's just don't like California? I dunno.

Stephen's though I'm used to being one of many; I was 'number 5' at the
office for quite awhile, since I worked directly for (and next to) a
Stephen, with another Stephen, and frequently at to ask two other Stephen's
for advice. So we all went by numbers.

Time to take up the habit on the internet!

Anyways. Ahem.

--Bob
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From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb  8 22:24:40 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:24:40 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied
Message-ID: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I'm using IDLE with winxp. It seems every day I get into the Subject 
above. Usually, after 5-8 minutes I get past it. A msg appearing at the 
same time say, "IDLE's subprocess didn't make connect. ... possible 
firewall problem."

A resource for this is <http://bugs.python.org/issue6941>. There a 
number of choices. Perhaps the most appealing is:

adgprogramming: first, bring up your task manager and make sure there
are no python processes running.  2.6.x subprocesses can get stuck.
Then make sure that your firewall isn't blocking socket access to
localhost.  Then restart IDLE.  IDLE 3.1.1 may work for you since it
has the recent enhancement that allows multiple copies of IDLE to run
simultaneously, but it still needs interprocess access via sockets.

How would I know the which Python processes or subprocesses are running? 
I can kill the main one, but that seems to do no good.
pythonw.exe.

Comments?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb  8 22:38:48 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:38:48 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied
In-Reply-To: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/8/2010 7:24 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> I'm using IDLE with winxp. It seems every day I get into the Subject
> above. Usually, after 5-8 minutes I get past it. A msg appearing at the
> same time say, "IDLE's subprocess didn't make connect. ... possible
> firewall problem."
>
> A resource for this is <http://bugs.python.org/issue6941>. There a
> number of choices. Perhaps the most appealing is:
>
> adgprogramming: first, bring up your task manager and make sure there
> are no python processes running. 2.6.x subprocesses can get stuck.
> Then make sure that your firewall isn't blocking socket access to
> localhost. Then restart IDLE. IDLE 3.1.1 may work for you since it
> has the recent enhancement that allows multiple copies of IDLE to run
> simultaneously, but it still needs interprocess access via sockets.
>
> How would I know the which Python processes or subprocesses are running?
> I can kill the main one, but that seems to do no good.
> pythonw.exe.
>
> Comments?
I'm using McAffee. I see it was pythonw.exe blocked in red. There are 
several choices: Allow Access, Allow Outboubnd only
Block (current), Remove Prgrm permission, Learn More.

Outbound only seem reasonable, but why does the blocking keep returning 
every many hours, or maybe when I reboot, which I've done several times 
today?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb  8 22:45:50 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:45:50 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied
In-Reply-To: <hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkqlpg$f2i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I decided to go with outbound. Now when I run the program, I get a long 
of messabge about deprecations and  NumpyTest will be removed in the 
next release. please update code to nose or unittest.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb  8 22:53:29 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:53:29 -0800
Subject: Tangling with mathplotlib(MPL)  on XP and Win7 -- show() stopper
Message-ID: <hkqm7p$hol$2@news.eternal-september.org>

I'm doing most of this on a win7 machine. When I installed MPL, I had 
two small dialogs appear that said something was missing, but I pressed 
on. MPL seemed to generally work except for the show() problem. When it 
was to be executed to show the output of plot(x,y), it did just that; 
however, the shell window hung, and I had to upper right corner x my way 
out of it--2 to 3 steps. The plot window and program easily went the 
same way. IDLE is the tool of choice on both machines.

I'm in the process of bringing programs from my XP to the win7 machine, 
and on the XP machine I decided to start using MPL with a 900 line Py 
program that I'm revising. I had gotten stuck with the very same problem 
there. However, last night I realized someone had added a MPL plot to it 
years ago, and it does not fail on show().  I've put print stmts after 
show() in the big program, but nothing is printed in either case when I 
close the plot window. Tried in IDLE and executing from clicking on the 
py file in its folder.

I brought some of this up on the MPL mailing list, and one respondent 
said he had tried some of the examples with show(), and they had worked.

I noticed the dialog msgs mentioned above, and thought I made a mistake 
in not installing numpy first, so tried to figure out a way to do it. 
Three posts on different forums did not provide an answer. I 
accidentally found the author of MPL's hidden away in one of MPL files. 
He said it didn't make a difference and asked me not to use his address. 
I though the warning msgs might be of interest to him, so wrote to him. 
He had blocked me. Perhaps I need to file a bug report to get his 
attention on that.



Anyway, I'm now stalled on the development of the big program. It's 
possible this is an IDLE problem, but I ran the big program with a click 
on the file, and the black window showed the same problem. This is all 
on XP Pro.

I'm going to copy the two code segments here. Maybe someone can see a 
difference.

=================OLD working code============
      def light_curve( self ):
          result = []
          test = 1
          for tup in self.subimages:
              left,top,subimage = tup
              total = 0
              avg_total = 0
              if (test == 1):
                  box = (left, top, left+128, top+128)
                  region = self.reference_image.crop(box)
                  self.reference_image.paste(subimage, box)
                  test = 2
              else:
                  for x in range(left+43,left+82):
                      for y in range(top+43, top+82):
                          avg_total = avg_total + 
self.reference_image.getpixel((x, y))
                  for x in range(43,82): #take the center 40 X 40 pixel 
block
                      for y in range(43,82):
                          v = subimage.getpixel((x, y))
                          total = total + v
                  #for x in range(left, left+127):
                  #    for y in range(top, top+127):
                  #        avg_total = avg_total + 
self.reference_image.getpixel((x, y))
                  #for x in range(0, 127):
                  #    for y in range(0, 127):
                  #        total = total + subimage.getpixel((x, y))
                  result.append(total - avg_total) #(average - 
background average) gives pixel intensity above the background)
          plotting_x = range(2, len(result)+2)
          plot(plotting_x, result)
          xlabel('Frame #')
          ylabel('Pixel count above background count')
          title('Light curve for selected subplot')
          show()

===========New Code with show problem
      def get_point_trail_stats(self): # Simple track statistics
          xy = array(self.xya)[:,0:2]  # creates a two column array for x,y
          pt2pt_dist = []
          pt_dist = []
          for k in arange(0,len(xy)-1):
              distance = sqrt((xy[k+1,0]-xy[k,0])**2 + 
(xy[k+1,1]-xy[k,1])**2)
              pt_dist.append(distance)
              # wtw print "k ",k, (xy[k,0], xy[k,1]), " distance: ", 
distance
          # wtwfor k in arange(0, len(xy)-50):
          # wtw    print "k: %3i dist: %6.2f (x,y) (%4.1f,%4.1f)" % (k, 
pt_dist[k], xy[k,0], xy[k,1])
          per_tile25 = stats.scoreatpercentile(pt_dist,25.0)
          per_tile50 = stats.scoreatpercentile(pt_dist,50.0)
          per_tile75 = stats.scoreatpercentile(pt_dist,75.0)
          mean       = stats.mean(pt_dist)
          std        = stats.std(pt_dist)
          #sys.exit()
          amin       = min(pt_dist)
          amax       = max(pt_dist)
          print "   mean: %7.2f std: %7.2f min: %7.2f max: %7.2f" % 
(mean, std, amin, amax)
          print "   quartiles (25-per: %7.2f, 50-per: %7.2f, 75-per: 
%7.2f): " % (per_tile25, per_tile50, per_tile75)
          #print "           Extended stats"
          #print "   min: %7.2f max: %7.2f mean: %7.2f std: %7.2f" % \
          #    (min, max, mean, std)
          #print "   p25: %7.2f p50: %7.2f p75: %7.2f" % (per_tile25, 
per_tile50, per_tile75)
          trk_stats = (amin, amax, mean, std, per_tile25, per_tile50, 
per_tile75)
          fig = figure()
          ax1 = fig.add_subplot(111)
          v = (0, 640, 0, 480)
          print "shapes: ", xy[:,0].shape, xy[:,1].shape
          fig.close()
          ax1.plot(xy[:,0], xy[:,1]) #,100*s, c , picker=True)
          ax1.axis(v)
          #x = (0,1,3,20,20);y=(5,7, 9, 22,90)
          #col = ax1.plot(x,y)
          show()

          print "something for wtw plot"
          print
          return trk_stats


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb  8 23:01:16 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:01:16 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
>
> [snip]
> To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort of 
> world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I have 
> a series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment where 
> someone comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The 
> contents of these boxes are mine alone!

Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should not say that.

One should then be more precise.

One should say /what/ is passed by value.


[snip]

>  >>> import copy
>  >>> def doit(a):
> ...     a += a
> ...     return a
> ... 
>  >>> test1 = 1
>  >>> test2 = doit(test1)
>  >>> test1
> 1
>  >>> test2
> 2
>  >>> test3 = [1]
>  >>> test4 = doit(test3)
>  >>> test3
> [1, 1]
>  >>> test4
> [1, 1]
> 
> I know you already know this, but the point is: you're -hurting- other 
> peoples understanding by using terms like this that don't apply to 
> Python's specific nature.

The terms apply very well to Java. And Java has the identical parameter passing 
mechanism for class type objects. Hence, the argument is bogus.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

PS: I cannot see any of your postings on Usenet. So I just sort of grabbed this 
from GMane and posted to Usenet. Hopefully you'll see it back at the list. :-)


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 23:02:30 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:02:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
Message-ID: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
figure it out. Saying something like this:

from plistlib import readPlist
dict=readPlist('/path/file.plist')
--> arbitrarily ordered dictionary compared to the XML file

from collections import OrderedDict
OrderedDict(readPlist('/path/file.plist'))
--> essentially does the same thing as the previous
readPlist seems to do the scrambling, is this a non-implementation in
Python 3.1?

I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
impossible...

-- Gnarlie


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Feb  8 23:17:23 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:17:23 +1100
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871vgvjb58.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> writes:

> from plistlib import readPlist
> dict=readPlist('/path/file.plist')
> --> arbitrarily ordered dictionary compared to the XML file

Right. The items in a dict are unordered, and when serialised to a list
they will appear in an arbitrary, unpredictable order.

    >>> foo = dict(
    ...     [('a', 1), ('b', 2), ('c', 3), ('d', 4), ('e', 5)])
    >>> foo
    {'a': 1, 'c': 3, 'b': 2, 'e': 5, 'd': 4}

> from collections import OrderedDict
> OrderedDict(readPlist('/path/file.plist'))
> --> essentially does the same thing as the previous

Yes, because you are initialising an OrderedDict instance from a dict.
That accesses the dict items as an iterable, which of course is going to
retrieve the items in an arbitrary, unpredictable order.

    >>> foo.items()
    dict_items([('a', 1), ('c', 3), ('b', 2), ('e', 5), ('d', 4)])

The OrderedDict then faithfully remembers the arbitrary ordering of the
items.

    >>> from collections import OrderedDict
    >>> OrderedDict(foo.items())
    OrderedDict([('a', 1), ('c', 3), ('b', 2), ('e', 5), ('d', 4)])

> readPlist seems to do the scrambling

Nothing ?does? the scrambling; the order is forgotten by the dict as
soon as the items go in.

> I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
> impossible...

What you'll need to do is insert the items into the OrderedDict instance
in the desired order. You will, of course, need to define what that
desired order is.

    >>> sorted(foo.items(), key=(lambda item: item[0]))
    [('a', 1), ('b', 2), ('c', 3), ('d', 4), ('e', 5)]
    >>> OrderedDict(sorted(foo.items(), key=(lambda item: item[0])))
    OrderedDict([('a', 1), ('b', 2), ('c', 3), ('d', 4), ('e', 5)])

-- 
 \          ?When we talk to God, we're praying. When God talks to us, |
  `\         we're schizophrenic.? ?Jane Wagner, via Lily Tomlin, 1985 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Feb  8 23:21:13 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:21:13 -0500
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
In-Reply-To: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002082021w25ee9e7cq2918899828351026@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
> figure it out. Saying something like this:
>
> from plistlib import readPlist
> dict=readPlist('/path/file.plist')
> --> arbitrarily ordered dictionary compared to the XML file
>
> from collections import OrderedDict
> OrderedDict(readPlist('/path/file.plist'))
> --> essentially does the same thing as the previous
> readPlist seems to do the scrambling, is this a non-implementation in
> Python 3.1?
>
> I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
> impossible...
>
> -- Gnarlie

readPlist returns a dict. That dict is unordered. Wrapping the call in
OrderedDict() doesn't suddenly make readPlist use an ordered dict
instead, it just takes the (unordered) dict and sticks it in a new
OrderedDict. I suppose you could dig into the plistlib source code and
change that to use the OrderedDict if you really need it.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  8 23:25:25 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:25:25 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkqo3g$crs$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/8/2010 2:10 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> I apologize for assuming that "pointer" is a known word to [c.l.p.]
> denizens.

It is irrelevant.

Python calls Python functions by associating argument objects (or 
objects derived therefrom) with paramenter names, very much like 
assigment statements.

If one understands Python objects, names, and assignment statements, 
which one must to understand Python, this completely explains the 
function calls, function execution, and its effect on passed objects.

All Python expressions evaluate to an object. Call expressions evaluate 
to the object returned by the function.

Different interpreters implement call and return differently. Certainly, 
most humans do not use C pointers when they mentally execute Python code.

Terry Jan Reedy





From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 23:29:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:29:02 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> * Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort of
>> world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I have a
>> series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment where someone
>> comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The contents of these
>> boxes are mine alone!
>>
>
> Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should not say
> that.
>
> One should then be more precise.
>
> One should say /what/ is passed by value.
>

No.

One should not use the phrase that is fundamentally imprecise.

The phrase "pass by value" means something different then the phrase "pass
by object" aka "pass by sharing". They are in many cases very similar. They
are not the same. Using it is simply wrong. There is really no legitimate
argument you can make otherwise: even in languages where call-by-value IS
the norm, the phrase is imprecise enough to confuse people, as the semantics
of what call-by-value mean to a language vary. But those semantics do NOT
apply to Python.


[snip]
>
>>
>> I know you already know this, but the point is: you're -hurting- other
>> peoples understanding by using terms like this that don't apply to Python's
>> specific nature.
>>
>
> The terms apply very well to Java. And Java has the identical parameter
> passing mechanism for class type objects. Hence, the argument is bogus.
>

Java uses silly terminology; and that it chooses to use silly terminology in
no way impacts the validity of the argument. Java isn't an authority.
Python's been around longer! And the specific behavior here, "call by value
where the value is an object reference" was named "call by sharing" back in
the 1970's by Liskov.

Java isn't call-by-value (for objects) either, even if that phrase is common
in the Java community. C is call-by-value. VB is, I believe, call-by-value
-- though I may be wrong here, as I only sort of blinked at VB a long, long
time ago.

Its distinct. Its different. Its neither call-by-value, nor
call-by-reference. The /value/ of a thing is NOT its identity. Its the
/state/ of that thing.

By your argument, call-by-reference is call-by-value too! Because you're
passing "a value" -- but you're -always- going to pass some piece of data,
otherwise you're not actually passing anything.

The /by value/ vs /by reference/ vs /by sharing/ is not about "is a value
being passed", in all cases, "a value" is. By Value means a copy of the
thing is made. By Reference means you're accessing the callers variable
directly. By Sharing means you're both sharing the same object.

PS: I cannot see any of your postings on Usenet. So I just sort of grabbed
> this from GMane and posted to Usenet. Hopefully you'll see it back at the
> list. :-)


I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it as a
mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org's usenet
server->the world, some people don't seem to get my posts. Yet it shows up
on some news servers, not others.

No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.

--S
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From bchang2002 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 23:40:54 2010
From: bchang2002 at gmail.com (dontcare)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:40:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: xml.sax parsing elements with the same name
References: <51ad9cee-6b7b-42c8-8f9e-44c0f8b96bc7@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b4c2f2e$0$6731$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <961b9e15-5d20-472b-92bc-917796dc6e5e@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

If you are using jython, then you might also want to consider VTD-XML,
which is
a lot easier to use and faster than SAX, native XPath support may be
useful too

http;//vtd-xml.sf.net

On Jan 12, 12:13?am, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> amadain, 11.01.2010 20:13:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have an event log with 100s of thousands of entries with logs of the
> > form:
>
> > <event eventTimestamp="2009-12-18T08:22:49.035"
> > uniqueId="1261124569.35725_PFS_1_1340035961">
> > ? ?<result value="Blocked"/>
> > ? ? ? <filters>
> > ? ? ? ? ? <filter code="338" type="Filter_Name">
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <diagnostic>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<result value="Triggered"/>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? </diagnostic>
> > ? ? ? ? ? </filter>
> > ? ? ? ? ? <filter code="338" type="Filter_Name">
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <diagnostic>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?<result value="Blocked"/>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? </diagnostic>
> > ? ? ? ? ? </filter>
> > ? ? ? </filters>
> > </event>
>
> > I am usingxml.saxto parse the event log.
>
> You should give ElementTree's iterparse() a try (xml.etree package).
> Instead of a stream of simple events, it will give you a stream of
> subtrees, which are a lot easier to work with. You can intercept the event
> stream on each 'event' tag, handle it completely in one obvious code step,
> and then delete any content you are done with to safe memory.
>
> It's also very fast, you will like not loose muchperformancecompared toxml.sax.
>
> Stefan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Feb  8 23:47:20 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:47:20 -0500
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
In-Reply-To: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkqpci$f7l$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/8/2010 11:02 PM, Gnarlodious wrote:
> I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
> figure it out. Saying something like this:
>
> from plistlib import readPlist

As a general note, include a link or something when discussing a 
relatively obscure module that seems not to even be listed in pypi.

> dict=readPlist('/path/file.plist')

Redefining a basic builtin name like 'dict' is usually a bad idea.

> -->  arbitrarily ordered dictionary compared to the XML file
>
> from collections import OrderedDict
> OrderedDict(readPlist('/path/file.plist'))
> -->  essentially does the same thing as the previous
> readPlist seems to do the scrambling, is this a non-implementation in
> Python 3.1?
>
> I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
> impossible...

I agree with Benjamin -- check the source. Is plistlib 3.x ready?

Terry Jan Reedy



From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 00:12:07 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 06:12:07 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2199.1265689553.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2199.1265689553.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkqqnd$hbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Terry Reedy:
> On 2/8/2010 2:10 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> I apologize for assuming that "pointer" is a known word to [c.l.p.]
>> denizens.
> 
> It is irrelevant.
> 
> Python calls Python functions by associating argument objects (or 
> objects derived therefrom) with paramenter names, very much like 
> assigment statements.

Well, part of the above is word-play. When a name refers to an object elsewhere 
and that reference can be copied around, then it is a pointer to the object in 
e.g. the Java sense, which I very purposefully referenced to be clear about it. 
So you're saying that X is irrelevant in Python because Python uses Y, where Y 
is a description of X...

But part of what you write puzzles me.

As far as the language spec is concerned the argument passing mechanism seems to 
me to be identical to assignments, not just "very much like".

Your phrase "or objects derived therefrom" seems to imply that immutable objects 
can be copied (an optimization that once was rejected), but as far as I can see 
the language spec only talks about binding with no provision for binding to do 
anything else than making a name refer directly to a specified object, 
presumably with *the same id*.

Not talking about things built on top of argument passing like *, and not 
talking about scopes or other (in this context) extraneous details: is there 
something I've overlooked in the basic mechanism?


> If one understands Python objects, names, and assignment statements, 
> which one must to understand Python, this completely explains the 
> function calls, function execution, and its effect on passed objects.

Yes.

There are many ways to understand it though.

The simplest description, reality, that names refer to objects, where those 
references can be copied, i.e. that they in e.g. the Java sense are pointers to 
objects, seems to be simplest  --  and is certainly shortest. :-)


> All Python expressions evaluate to an object. Call expressions evaluate 
> to the object returned by the function.
> 
> Different interpreters implement call and return differently. Certainly, 
> most humans do not use C pointers when they mentally execute Python code.

The Java language spec reference for "pointer" was to avoid arguments about 
irrelevant specialized meanings of the term, such as C pointers.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 00:21:55 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <89d4fa66-8749-4551-909b-96f9182fd8c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Carl Banks wrote:

> I don't know if it was the reason it was rejected, but a seriously
> divisive question is whether the path should be a subset of string.

OMG that's nothing but the OO "circle vs ellipse" non-question. Glad
to see the Committee derailed a perfectly good library over such
sophistry.

> Under ordinary circumstances it would be a poor choice for inheritance
> (only a few string methods would be useful fot a pathname), but some
> people were fiercely adamant that paths should be passable to open()
> as-in (without having to explicity convert to string).

That's just silly. To be object-based, you should say path.open('r').
fopen() and its ilk are too 1960s...

My 5th Grade science teacher, one Eunice Feight, once expressed
chagrin for submitting a proposal to Readers' Digest, and getting it
accepted. She sold them the following sloka:

  Don't be clever don't be witty
  Or you'll wind up BEING the Committee!

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From ijcsorgeditor at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 00:35:55 2010
From: ijcsorgeditor at gmail.com (editor ijcs)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:35:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Call for Paper The International Journal of Computer Science (IJCS)
Message-ID: <ae5a881a-6509-436e-aa72-bfeb483b6cb3@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Call for Paper
The International Journal of Computer Science (IJCS) publishes
original papers on all subjects relevant to computer science,
communication network, and information systems. The highest priority
will be given to those contributions concerned with a discussion of
the background of a practical problem, the establishment of an
appropriate model, the determination of a solution, approximate or
exact, analytical or numerical, and a discussion of the relevance of
the results when applied to the real-life problem. Paper submissions
are invited in the area of computer science, in particular the
technological advances and research results in the fields of
theoretical, experimental, applied electronics, computer science,
communication network and Information technology.
Topics of interest include but are not limited to the following:
     Computer Science

    * Parallel Processing and Distributed Computing
    * Foundations of High-performance Computing
    * Graph Theory and Analysis of Algorithms
    * Artificial Intelligences and Pattern/Image Recognitions
    * Neural Networks and Biomedical Simulations
    * Virtual Visions and Virtual Simulations
    * Data Mining, Web Image Mining and Applications
    * Data Base Management & Information Retrievals Adaptive Systems
    * Bifurcation, Biocybernetics & Bioinformatics
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 00:38:26 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 05:38:26 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:01:16 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> * Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
>>
>> [snip]
>> To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort
>> of world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I
>> have a series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment
>> where someone comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The
>> contents of these boxes are mine alone!
> 
> Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should not
> say that.
> 
> One should then be more precise.
> 
> One should say /what/ is passed by value.

I don't see how that matters. Python's behaviour is EXACTLY the same, no 
matter what you pass to the function.

You don't pass pointers in Python, because you, the Python author, have 
no way of specifying a pointer in Python code. It is *always* an object 
that you pass, by giving a literal, the name an object is bound to, or 
some other expression that returns an object:

function( my_object )
function( 12345 )
function( ham(3) + spam(5) )

If you're talking to the person who writes Python code, then you should 
discuss the sorts of things that exist in Python: objects and names and 
expressions, but no pointers.

If you're talking about the Python virtual machine, instead of the high-
level Python code, then you should say so -- but there are still no 
pointers in the VM. Look at the output of dis.dis and you will see 
objects pushed onto a stack, but no pointers.

It's not until you get past the level of Python code, past the virtual 
machine, and into the implementation of the virtual machine, that you 
will finally find pointers.

But why stop there? If somebody asks you a question about Python, and you 
choose to ignore them and answer a different question about one 
particular implementation's internals instead, I don't see why you stop 
there. Why not go down another layer and talk about copying bytes, or two 
layers and answer that Python does call-by-bit-flipping, or a layer below 
that and say it's all done by varying potential differences?

You shouldn't expect your listener to understand machine code to 
understand Python's high-level behaviour, nor should you expect them to 
be C coders. You don't need to understand pointers to understand a 
language that doesn't support them.


[...]
> The terms apply very well to Java. And Java has the identical parameter
> passing mechanism for class type objects. Hence, the argument is bogus.

Everything I've said applies to Java as well, and the argument about call-
by-whatever is just as prevalent in Java circles as in Python.

Example #1:

    Q: If Java uses the pass-by reference, why won't a swap 
    function work?

    A: Your question demonstrates a common error made by Java 
    language newcomers. Indeed, even seasoned veterans find 
    it difficult to keep the terms straight. 

    Java does manipulate objects by reference, and all 
    object variables are references. However, Java doesn't 
    pass method arguments by reference; it passes them by 
    value.

http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javaqa/2000-05/03-qa-0526-pass.html


Example #2: 

    Myth: "Objects are passed by reference, primitives are 
    passed by value" 
 
    Some proponents of this then say, "Ah, except for immutable 
    objects which are passed by value [etc]" which introduces 
    loads of rules without really tackling how Java works.

http://www.yoda.arachsys.com/java/passing.html


Example #3:

    Java is Pass-by-Value, Dammit!

http://javadude.com/articles/passbyvalue.htm


Java programmers suffer for a bad mental model just as much as Python 
programmers.

All this is because of two conceptual mistakes: (1) the Java community 
has conflated the internals of what happens in the implementation of the 
Java VM with high-level Java code; and (2) a refusal to accept that there 
are calling strategies other than pass-by-value and pass-by-reference.




-- 
Steven


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb  9 00:43:48 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:43:48 +1300
Subject: ctypes Structure serialization
References: <615b1271-a9b0-4558-8e45-e4370698d96a@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkqsmk$fho$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <615b1271-a9b0-4558-8e45-
e4370698d96a at a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, rych wrote:

> I'm not quite familiar with python serialization but the picle module,
> at least, doesn't seem to be able to serialize a ctypes Structure with
> array-fields.

Remember that a ctypes structure is supposed to represent a lower-language-
level structure, which is just a block of bytes. Those bytes are the 
serialization.


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 01:00:15 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:00:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 9 f?v, 02:50, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com> wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
> > In article <0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > OdarR ?<olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> and with eval(), did you try ?
>
> > WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>
> Some say that eval is evil !
>
> JM

go to hell ;-), it is part of the language, it seems to match the
aforementioned question.

I don't see it as a problem.
Let's wait Klaus opinion.


Olivier


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 01:26:11 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:26:11 -0800
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002082226t7f042f00lf001c827fe7b88eb@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:00 PM, OdarR <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9 f?v, 02:50, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com> wrote:
> > Aahz wrote:
> > > In article <
> 0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > > OdarR  <olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> and with eval(), did you try ?
> >
> > > WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
> >
> > Some say that eval is evil !
> >
> > JM
>
> go to hell ;-), it is part of the language, it seems to match the
> aforementioned question.
>
> I don't see it as a problem.
>

Yes, it is a part of the language, because as a dynamic language has to have
such a capability.

Because there are legitimate use-cases for it.

But they are extremely rare.

Extremely rare.

But it is there: if there is a real, legitimate use-case for a feature that
can't be solved by other means, then certainly include a feature to
accomplish that goal.

But that doesn't mean you use that feature all over just because its there.
You use it when its appropriate. The ability to do a thing doesn't mean you
should do a thing.

In most cases, eval is not appropriate. It might do what you think you want,
but often there are huge consequences and not at all obvious considerations
you have to take into account.

Usually when you think you want to eval, there's a better way to approach
the problem. It might not seem right away to be as "easy" or "seamless" as
you think you want, but there are almost always compelling reasons why its
better, easier, more efficient and simpler.

People are trying to help the OP not only by providing the easiest approach
to solve a problem, but trying to show him the best way to make /good code/.
Good Code isn't a purely subjective thing left up to idle taste.

...

Also? "go to hell" even with a smiley is being an asshat.

Don't be an asshat.

--S
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From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 01:35:57 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:35:57 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Stephen Hansen:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no 
> <mailto:alfps at start.no>> wrote:
> 
>     * Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
> 
> 
>         [snip]
> 
>         To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a
>         sort of world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on
>         my desk I have a series of boxes with names on it. It describes
>         an environment where someone comes over and drops something into
>         each of my boxes. The contents of these boxes are mine alone!
> 
> 
>     Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should
>     not say that.
> 
>     One should then be more precise.
> 
>     One should say /what/ is passed by value.
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> One should not use the phrase that is fundamentally imprecise.
> 
> The phrase "pass by value" means something different then the phrase 
> "pass by object" aka "pass by sharing". They are in many cases very 
> similar. They are not the same.

Right.

"pass by value" is a lower level notion.

And as you show below, in the paragraph marked [1], it can be used to describe 
call by sharing very succinctly and precisely, just as I did... ;-)


> Using it is simply wrong. There is 
> really no legitimate argument you can make otherwise: even in languages 
> where call-by-value IS the norm, the phrase is imprecise enough to 
> confuse people, as the semantics of what call-by-value mean to a 
> language vary. But those semantics do NOT apply to Python.

In a way that's right, but only at the level of abstraction of pass by sharing.

At that level it's wrong to say that pass by sharing is pass by value (as they 
reportedly do over in Java-land), just as, at that level, it's wrong to say that 
pass by reference is pass by value notwithstanding that some kind of value must 
be copied in the internal implementation.

Describing pass by sharing in terms of pass by value is however very simple and 
legitimate, involving a higher level described in terms of a lower level  --  as 
you illustrate right below: <g>


>     [snip]
>         I know you already know this, but the point is: you're -hurting-
>         other peoples understanding by using terms like this that don't
>         apply to Python's specific nature.
>     The terms apply very well to Java. And Java has the identical
>     parameter passing mechanism for class type objects. Hence, the
>     argument is bogus.
> 
> 
> [1] Java uses silly terminology; and that it chooses to use silly 
> terminology in no way impacts the validity of the argument. Java isn't 
> an authority. Python's been around longer! And the specific behavior 
> here, "call by value where the value is an object reference" was named 
> "call by sharing" back in the 1970's by Liskov.

Yep.

As you write, "call by sharing" can be described as "call by value where the 
value is an object reference".

Althuogh I'd rather use "where the value is an object pointer", because the word 
"pointer" already denotes a copyable value so doesn't make the head spin...


> Java isn't call-by-value (for objects) either, even if that phrase is 
> common in the Java community.

Right, and here the parenthesis (for objects) establishes which abstraction level.


> C is call-by-value. VB is, I believe, 
> call-by-value -- though I may be wrong here, as I only sort of blinked 
> at VB a long, long time ago. 

Full VB supports both call by sharing and call by reference.


> Its distinct. Its different. Its neither call-by-value, nor 
> call-by-reference. The /value/ of a thing is NOT its identity. Its the 
> /state/ of that thing.

Talking about a reference value (a.k.a. pointer), as you do earlier above in 
[1], does not mean that one is talking about a Python object value.

So essentially the paragraph immediately above seems to be a confusion based on 
multiple meanings of "value", unless it's just a description of Python objects?


> By your argument, call-by-reference is call-by-value too! Because you're 
> passing "a value" -- but you're -always- going to pass some piece of 
> data, otherwise you're not actually passing anything. 

No, whatever you think my argument is (no quote, so I'm left in the dark about 
that assumption) here you're back to confusing levels of abstraction again.

Call by reference is necessarily, at some level, implemented in terms of call by 
value.

That doesn't make call by reference the same as call by value, not more than the 
human body is one giant molecule just because it consists of molecules.


> The /by value/ vs /by reference/ vs /by sharing/ is not about "is a 
> value being passed", in all cases, "a value" is. By Value means a copy 
> of the thing is made. By Reference means you're accessing the callers 
> variable directly. By Sharing means you're both sharing the same object.

Yes, violent agreement.


>     PS: I cannot see any of your postings on Usenet. So I just sort of
>     grabbed this from GMane and posted to Usenet. Hopefully you'll see
>     it back at the list. :-)
> 
> 
> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in 
> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it 
> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org 
> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem 
> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
> 
> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.

Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From frank at chagford.com  Tue Feb  9 01:45:03 2010
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:45:03 +0200
Subject: Simple question about Queue.Queue and threads
References: <mailman.1949.1265374022.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<770583c3-a7c7-4a3d-b90f-9546801040e3@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkr09k$tkt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Feb 8, 4:51 pm, Steven <Steven.Rumbal... at fiserv.com> wrote:
>
> Queue objects have support for this signaling baked in with
> q.task_done and q.join.
>
> After the server process has put all tasks into the queue, it can join
> the queue itself, not the worker threads.
>
> q.join()
>
> This will block until all tasks have been gotten AND completed.  The
> worker threads would simply do this:
> task_data = q.get()
> do_task(task_data)
> q.task_done()
>
> Using pairs of get and task_done you no longer need to send a signal.
> Just exit the server process and the worker threads will die (assuming
> of course, you set .setDaemon(True) before starting each worker
> thread).
>

Thanks, Steven.

This works perfectly in my scenario, and tidies up the code a bit.

Minor point - according to the 2.6 docs, .setDaemon(True) is the old API - 
the current way of specifying this is .daemon = True.

Thanks for the tip.

Frank




From nad at acm.org  Tue Feb  9 01:47:25 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:47:25 -0800
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqpci$f7l$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <nad-8C3A3F.22472408022010@news.gmane.org>

In article <hkqpci$f7l$1 at ger.gmane.org>, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> 
wrote:
> On 2/8/2010 11:02 PM, Gnarlodious wrote:
> > I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
> > figure it out. Saying something like this:
> > from plistlib import readPlist
> As a general note, include a link or something when discussing a 
> relatively obscure module that seems not to even be listed in pypi.

http://docs.python.org/library/plistlib.html

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From pwashington85 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 01:47:42 2010
From: pwashington85 at gmail.com (spike)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 22:47:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 1:35?pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
> spike wrote:
> > Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
> > flow chart?
>
> > An example can be seen on the right under History:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>
> > This would be very helpful for all users.
>
> Huh??? ?What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>
> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?
>
> Gary Herron

Do you know what "Logic" means? Guess not. Before you comedians quit
your day job some people are looking for information. If you have
nothing positive to say, go pester somewhere else.

Grow up.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Feb  9 01:55:16 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:16 +1300
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7tceiuF94hU1@mid.individual.net>

Carl Banks wrote:
> I don't remember if the idea of modifying open to accept path
> objects came up.

It wouldn't just be open() that people would want modified --
it would be every other function that takes a pathname as
well.

I seem to recall another point of contention was whether
path objects should have methods for accessing the file
system (opening files, renaming them, etc.) or whether it
should confine itself to representing and manipulating
pathnames.

In any case, introducing any kind of path object at this
late stage of the language's development would result in
More Than One Way to represent pathnames, with neither of
them being the obvious choice.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Feb  9 01:58:29 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:58:29 +1300
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2191.1265682010.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2191.1265682010.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tceorF94hU2@mid.individual.net>

Tim Chase wrote:

> I prefer the strength of Triple ROT-13 for my obfuscation needs, but I 
> don't see it listed here.

That's old hat -- with the advent of 3GHz cpus and GPGPU, all the
experts are recommending quadruple ROT-128 nowadays.

-- 
Greg


From python at rcn.com  Tue Feb  9 02:15:57 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 23:15:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4576331d-fb60-499e-aff6-f61a4c0fc01e@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 8:02?pm, Gnarlodious <gnarlodi... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to read a *.plist into Python 3's OrderedDict but can't
> figure it out. Saying something like this:
...
> I "upgraded" to Py3 to have OrderedDict, so please don't say it is
> impossible...

You may be able to monkey patch an OrderedDict into the PlistParser.
Here's an untested stab at it:

    from collections import OrderedDict
    import plistlib
    plistlib._InteralDict = OrderedDict

Raymond




From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 02:19:56 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:19:56 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:01:16 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> * Stephen Hansen -> Alf P. Steinbach:
>>> [snip]
>>> To say, "pass by value" implies things to people. It describes a sort
>>> of world where I'm a function about to do some work, and on my desk I
>>> have a series of boxes with names on it. It describes an environment
>>> where someone comes over and drops something into each of my boxes. The
>>> contents of these boxes are mine alone!
>> Then, when the imprecision makes people misunderstand, one should not
>> say that.
>>
>> One should then be more precise.
>>
>> One should say /what/ is passed by value.
> 
> I don't see how that matters. Python's behaviour is EXACTLY the same, no 
> matter what you pass to the function.
> 
> You don't pass pointers in Python, because you, the Python author, have 
> no way of specifying a pointer in Python code. It is *always* an object 
> that you pass, by giving a literal, the name an object is bound to, or 
> some other expression that returns an object:
> 
> function( my_object )
> function( 12345 )
> function( ham(3) + spam(5) )

Every name and literal above (and in Python generally) stands for a copyable 
reference to an object, not for the object itself. You can copy the reference:

   a = [123]
   b = a
   assert( a is b )    # Doesn't matter if mutable or immutable or what.

A copyable reference is a pointer. That is, a "pointer", in e.g. the Java sense, 
  and in the general language independent sense, means a copyable reference  -- 
  as illustrated e.g. in the Stanford computer science 101 course page I 
referred you to earlier, with C versus Java pointers illustrated in the concrete.

Hence, since every name and literal above stands for a copyable reference, and 
since a copyable reference is a pointer, every name and literal above stands for 
a pointer  --  that's /all/ that you handle directly in Python, namely pointers.

But if that terminology sounds bad or has too strong C-vibes or Java-vibes or 
whatever, then we just need some other term for a Python "copyable reference".


> If you're talking to the person who writes Python code, then you should 
> discuss the sorts of things that exist in Python: objects and names and 
> expressions, but no pointers.

Well, given this terminology debate we may need some other term.

But IMHO the horse drawing the wagon needs to be mentioned to the potential 
wagon driver, whatever that horse is called  --  fourfooter, drawing-animal...

Anything else seems just senseless, meaningless abstraction, replacing one 
simple single concept with a load of connections and special case rules.


> If you're talking about the Python virtual machine, instead of the high-
> level Python code, then you should say so -- but there are still no 
> pointers in the VM. Look at the output of dis.dis and you will see 
> objects pushed onto a stack, but no pointers.

I don't think you will see any Python objects pushed on the stack. But you will 
see copyable object references pushed on the stack. That is, you will see 
pointers pushed on the stack.


> It's not until you get past the level of Python code, past the virtual 
> machine, and into the implementation of the virtual machine, that you 
> will finally find pointers.

There too.


> But why stop there? If somebody asks you a question about Python, and you 
> choose to ignore them and answer a different question about one 
> particular implementation's internals instead, I don't see why you stop 
> there. Why not go down another layer and talk about copying bytes, or two 
> layers and answer that Python does call-by-bit-flipping, or a layer below 
> that and say it's all done by varying potential differences?

I think a good professional programmer knows about all these levels.

Unfortunately, at least about 10 years ago students fresh out of college in 
Norway did not know about "internal" things such as call stacks, which led them 
to adopt many Unholy Programming Practices and to be Extremely Baffled by things 
such as stack traces.


> You shouldn't expect your listener to understand machine code to 
> understand Python's high-level behaviour, nor should you expect them to 
> be C coders. You don't need to understand pointers to understand a 
> language that doesn't support them.

 From the above comments it seems you're thinking about C pointers. To prevent 
that misconception I've defined the term "pointer" in every or most every 
posting I've made in this thread, including this posting. I've also posted a 
link to a Stanford University page with a simple-words explanation (they even 
have an animated Bunny video, although I've not looked at it); it's CS 101.

You don't have anything /but/ pointers in Python.

So pointers are key  --  by whatever name.


[snip]
> Java programmers suffer for a bad mental model just as much as Python 
> programmers.

Yes. :-)


> All this is because of two conceptual mistakes: (1) the Java community 
> has conflated the internals of what happens in the implementation of the 
> Java VM with high-level Java code; and (2) a refusal to accept that there 
> are calling strategies other than pass-by-value and pass-by-reference.

I'm not entirely sure about causes, but there is a tendency in general for 
humans to go from one extreme to another that they regard as "opposite". Using 
the term "call by value" for the Java (and Python) parameter passing is just 
Wrong(TM), at least without a clear understanding of what can be passed. Using 
"call by value" in a description of that model, mentioning very clearly what's 
passed, is on the other hand very practical: it's short, succinct & correct.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From sivaits4u at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 02:20:22 2010
From: sivaits4u at gmail.com (Bujji)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:50:22 +0530
Subject: event handling in pyuthon
Message-ID: <581ce2791002082320t2af425ffif36e6683e08cd038@mail.gmail.com>

hi all,
any event handling mechanisms in python ?
i want event handler examples in python


Thanks
Bujji
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From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Tue Feb  9 02:29:33 2010
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:29:33 +0000
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <873a1a3m02.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:43:46 -0800, Aahz wrote:
>
>>>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>>>
>>>warning : it works !
>> 
>> Works for what?
>
> Code injection security bugs, of course.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_injection
>
> It is surprisingly difficult to sanitize strings in Python to make them 
> safe to pass to eval. Unless you are prepared to trust the input data 
> explicitly, it's best to just avoid eval.

Despite the fact that it's used in the standard library...


From gherron at digipen.edu  Tue Feb  9 02:35:51 2010
From: gherron at digipen.edu (Gary Herron)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:35:51 -0800
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B711057.9030003@digipen.edu>

spike wrote:
> On Feb 8, 1:35 pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>   
>> spike wrote:
>>     
>>> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
>>> flow chart?
>>>       
>>> An example can be seen on the right under History:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>>>       
>>> This would be very helpful for all users.
>>>       
>> Huh???  What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>>
>> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?
>>
>> Gary Herron
>>     
>
> Do you know what "Logic" means? Guess not. Before you comedians quit
> your day job some people are looking for information. If you have
> nothing positive to say, go pester somewhere else.
>
> Grow up.
>   

Why the attitude?  I wouldn't have asked for a clarification if I didn't 
want to help.  However, I seriously have *no* idea what the OP has asked 
for when he says "Python logic map".   Do you?  If so, then answer the 
poor guy's question instead of whining at me.  (And I'll respectfully 
read your answer, just to see how you interpret "Python logic map".)

And I still claim that the example he aimed us at does not help in 
figuring out what he's asking.  It's a (nearly) 30 year old ascii-art 
drawing of the connectivity between (mostly university and government 
research lab ) computers that comprised the UUCP/USENET and ARPANET -- 
the precursor to today's internet.  BUT, that begs the question:  What 
does an old network connectivity chart have to do with a "Python logic map"?

If the OP is asking for a way to draw flow charts of Python programs, 
then why is his example of something that is *not* a flow chart, and 
drawn with 30 year old technology to boot.

If he is asking for a way to draw some kind of a connectivity graph, 
then I have to ask: Connectivity of what?

-- 
Gary Herron, PhD.
Department of Computer Science
DigiPen Institute of Technology
(425) 895-4418



From austin.bingham at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 02:39:49 2010
From: austin.bingham at gmail.com (Austin Bingham)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:39:49 +0100
Subject: C/C++ Import
In-Reply-To: <hkpffr$7tv$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <08bbf51f-7f4e-430f-95c8-31670b6a44a2@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpffr$7tv$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bf1abd11002082339n425ef2adj61080e8e0e2a3011@mail.gmail.com>

Just to elaborate on Terry's point a bit, sys.path is influenced (in
part) by the PYTHONPATH environment variable. If you find that the
directory containing 'python' is not in sys.path (which you can check
with 'import sys; print sys.path'), add that directory to PYTHONPATH
and try again. This may not be the solution you ultimately end up
using, but it'll get you pointed in the right direction.

Austin

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 2/7/2010 10:56 PM, 7H3LaughingMan wrote:
>>
>> To make the background information short, I am trying to take a
>> program that uses Python for scripting and recompile it for Linux
>> since it originally was built to run on Win32. The program itself was
>> designed to be able to be compiled on Linux and someone made there on
>> release with source that added python scripting. After some issues I
>> got it to compile but now it is unable to import the files that it
>> needs.
>>
>> The program is running the following code...
>> PyImport_Import( PyString_FromString("python.PlayerManager") );
>>
>> This is meant to import the file PlayerManager.py inside of the python
>> folder. However it throws the following Python Error (Gotten through
>> PyErr_Print())
>> ImportError: No module named python.PlayerManager
>>
>> I am using 2.6.4 so I can't call it by the filename, does anyone know
>> how to do a proper import?
>
> Your 'python' package directory must be in a directory listed in sys.path. I
> would print that check.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 03:11:02 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 08:11:02 GMT
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<5790c33c-13d0-4596-91b0-b3c9aeebf637@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq432$29l$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<pan.2010.02.09.01.51.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<873a1a3m02.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.08.11.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:29:33 +0000, Paul Rudin wrote:

>> It is surprisingly difficult to sanitize strings in Python to make them
>> safe to pass to eval. Unless you are prepared to trust the input data
>> explicitly, it's best to just avoid eval.
> 
> Despite the fact that it's used in the standard library...

Wisely or not, the standard library implicitly trusts it's input.

That's one of the many reasons why it's so hard to have a restricted 
subset of Python.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 03:21:48 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 08:21:48 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.09.08.21.47@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:19:56 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> You don't have anything /but/ pointers in Python.

x = 5
y = "hello"

You want us to accept that the values of x and y are some mysterious 
pointer entities rather than the integer object 5 and the string object 
"hello".

At the point that your explanation depends on the reader understanding 
that the value of a variable x is not actually the thing that they assign 
to x, but some mysterious, invisible entity that exists entirely inside 
the implementation where the user can never reach, you probably should 
rethink your attachment to that explanation. No wonder so many Java 
programmers are still confused by it.

It might help your case if we had a word for the thing that is actually 
assigned to the variable. In plain English that is "value", but you want 
to use that for the pointer to the thing-that-we-otherwise-would-call-
value, which leaves us no simple way to talk about the int 5 and string 
"hello".



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Feb  9 03:40:16 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:40:16 +0100
Subject: Doctests and decorated methods don't get along
In-Reply-To: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <037d435d$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7tclbhF8ttU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 06.02.10 12:48, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
> It seems that doctest doesn't discover or execute doctests in methods
> which have been decorated.
>
>
> Here is my test file:
>
> # ======
> class MyStaticMethod(object):
>      """Emulate built-in staticmethod descriptor."""
>      def __init__(self, f):
>          self.f = f
>      def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
>          return self.f
>
> class Test(object):
>      def method1(self):
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print 'x'
>          x
>          """
>
>      @staticmethod
>      def method2():
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print 'y'
>          y
>          """
>
>      @MyStaticMethod
>      def method3():
>          """Doc string
>
>          >>>  print '***'  # This test should fail.
>          z
>          """
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>      import doctest
>      doctest.testmod(verbose=True)
> # ======
>
>
> and here is the output using Python 2.6.4:
>
> [steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 test_doctests.py
> Trying:
>      print 'x'
> Expecting:
>      x
> ok
> Trying:
>      print 'y'
> Expecting:
>      y
> ok
> 5 items had no tests:
>      __main__
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod.__get__
>      __main__.MyStaticMethod.__init__
>      __main__.Test
> 2 items passed all tests:
>     1 tests in __main__.Test.method1
>     1 tests in __main__.Test.method2
> 2 tests in 7 items.
> 2 passed and 0 failed.
> Test passed.
>
>
> It doesn't even see method3, let alone run the tests.
>
>
> This looks like  bug to me. Have I missed anything?
>
> Any work arounds?


Use functools.wraps to preserve some essential parts of the function 
declaration.

def my_static(f):
     @wraps(f)
     def _d(*args, **kwargs):
        return f(*args, **kwargs)
     return _d


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Feb  9 03:47:42 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:47:42 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7tclpfFccvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 09.02.10 07:00, schrieb OdarR:
> On 9 f?v, 02:50, Jean-Michel Pichavant<jeanmic... at sequans.com>  wrote:
>> Aahz wrote:
>>> In article<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf5... at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>>> OdarR<olivier.da... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>>> and with eval(), did you try ?
>>
>>> WARNING: eval() is almost always the wrong answer to any question
>>
>> Some say that eval is evil !
>>
>> JM
>
> go to hell ;-), it is part of the language, it seems to match the
> aforementioned question.

And if the extension happens to be valid python-code, you might inject 
code malus code through the filename. Great idea!

globals()["function_" + ext]()

is all you need, and doesn't suffer from that attack vector.

Diez


From george.sakkis at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 03:54:08 2010
From: george.sakkis at gmail.com (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 00:54:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
Message-ID: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

I was talking to a colleague about one rather unexpected/undesired
(though not buggy) behavior of some package we use. Although there is
an easy fix (or at least workaround) on our end without any apparent
side effect, he strongly suggested extending the relevant code by hard
patching it and posting the patch upstream, hopefully to be accepted
at some point in the future. In fact we maintain patches against
specific versions of several packages that are applied automatically
on each new build. The main argument is that this is the right thing
to do, as opposed to an "ugly" workaround or a fragile monkey patch.
On the other hand, I favor practicality over purity and my general
rule of thumb is that "no patch" > "monkey patch" > "hard patch", at
least for anything less than a (critical) bug fix.

So I'm wondering if there is a consensus on when it's better to (hard)
patch, monkey patch or just try to work around a third party package
that doesn't do exactly what one would like. Does it have mainly to do
with the reason for the patch (e.g. fixing a bug, modifying behavior,
adding missing feature), the given package (size, complexity,
maturity, developer responsiveness), something else or there are no
general rules and one should decide on a case-by-case basis ?

George


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  9 04:04:20 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 01:04:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

> go to hell ;-), it is part of the language, it seems to match the
> aforementioned question.

Thats right. In fact, your code is the precise analogy of my Prolog
example in Python. Obviously, eval() and call() are both inherently
dangerous. They should never be used in programs that are used in
programs that get input from people other than the author. Yet, my
program is supposed to parse files that I have created myself and that
are on my laptop. It is not supposed to interact with anybody else
than me.

On the other hand, I think, it is worthwhile getting acquainted with
the getattr-stuff, because this method can be useful in many contexts.

Anyway, thanks to all who participated in this thread. It taught me a
lot.


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 04:08:15 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:08:15 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.09.08.21.47@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.09.08.21.47@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkr8i6$f44$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:19:56 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> You don't have anything /but/ pointers in Python.
> 
> x = 5

The above assigns to x a pointer to an object whose value is 5:

    x ------>  5


> y = "hello"

Ditto result:

    y ------>  "hello"


And if now do

    x = y

then the code is assigning (copying) to x the pointer in y:

    x -----------
                 \
    y ---------- > "hello"

which you can check by

    assert( x is y )

or

    assert( id( x ) == id( y ) )

and which becomes essential to understand when that object is mutable...

Like:

   x = [1, 2, 3, 4]
   y = "hello"

   y = x
   y.append( 5 )

   print( x )


> You want us to accept that the values of x and y are some mysterious 
> pointer entities rather than the integer object 5 and the string object 
> "hello".

The basics of pointers are simple.

You can copy pointers (assignment, argument), and you can check for equality 
(is), and you can refer to the object that's pointed to (attribute access, 
indexing, operators). And in CPython you can even obtain the pointer value as an 
integer via id().

So there's nothing mysterious.

In particular

    x = [1, 2, 3, 4]
    y = x

does not copy the object value, it only copies the pointer.

That also matters for e.g.

    x = 10000000*"A"
    y = x

And aliasing, like in the last three examples above, is pretty difficult to 
understand without a pointer view of things.

And if aliasing is not understood, then forever stranded at beginner's level.


> At the point that your explanation depends on the reader understanding 
> that the value of a variable x is not actually the thing that they assign 
> to x, but some mysterious, invisible entity that exists entirely inside 
> the implementation where the user can never reach, you probably should 
> rethink your attachment to that explanation. No wonder so many Java 
> programmers are still confused by it.

Thanks for thinking about my writings.

As it happens I've already written about pointers in chapter 2, although not 
mentioning the word "pointer". :-)

I made do with the term "reference", because in Python there's not anything else 
(in particular there's no pass by reference) that could cause confusion.

However, that cop-out (is that the right term?) wouldn't work for text based on 
a language like C++, which has another kind of reference, or for that matter C# 
which is like Python and Java except that C# also has pass by reference...

Some mixed feedbacks on that writing, but it's section 2.6.7 "References & 
automatic garbage collection" in ch 2 "Basic concepts" at <url: 
http://tinyurl.com/programmingbookP3> (I hope I typed the URL correctly).


> It might help your case if we had a word for the thing that is actually 
> assigned to the variable. In plain English that is "value", but you want 
> to use that for the pointer to the thing-that-we-otherwise-would-call-
> value, which leaves us no simple way to talk about the int 5 and string 
> "hello".

There are two values: the pointer value, and the object value.

In CPython:

   >>> a = "blah"
   >>> str.format( "Pointer = {0}, object = {1}".format( id( a ), a ) )
   'Pointer = 12090272, object = blah'
   >>> _

More simply, there's the pointer and there's the object pointed to.

Or, in the not-very-general-but-I-think-works-in-Python terminology that I used 
in 2.6.7, there's the reference and there's the object.

So the thing that's actually assigned to a variable is in language-independent 
terminology a "pointer" (or pointer value), although that doesn't mean C or 
Pascal or whatever specific language pointer but just a copyable object 
reference, and perhaps in Python-specific terminology it's just a "reference".

I don't know better terms...


Cheers,

- Alf


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Feb  9 04:21:29 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:21:29 +0100
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
In-Reply-To: <hkq0aj$v4s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkq0aj$v4s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b712919$0$6584$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 08.02.2010 22:39:
> In message <4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93 at newsspool2.arcor-online.net>, Stefan 
> Behnel wrote:
> 
>> - generating HTML using a tool that guarantees correct HTML output
> 
> Where do you think these tools come from?

Usually PyPI.

Stefan


From waku at idi.ntnu.no  Tue Feb  9 04:51:57 2010
From: waku at idi.ntnu.no (waku)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 01:51:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 2, 10:49?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 2, 2:21?am,waku<w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:

[...]

> > there are languages where indentation can be either enforced and allow
> > one to omit some syntactic nuissance like braces or begin-end clauses,
> > or made optional, requiring other syntactic means for delimiting
> > blocks etc. ?(consider f# with its #light declaration, for example.)
>
> If you're writing "experimental code", you're doing it wrong. Every
> line of code you write may end up on the space shuttle one day (so to
> speak!) Why not write the code well-formatted in the first place, so
> that any bugs you introduce are as easily visible as possible?

you're missing the large part of the language's customers that use it
specifically for experimenting.  they're not developing space
shuttles, but rather explore available data, experiment with
algorithms, etc.  (and for space shuttles, i doubt python is the first
choice anyway.)

yes, i am writing lots of experimental code, and i know many who do,
too, and there is *nothing* wrong about it.  and then, i sometimes use
ipython to interactively experiment, saving the input to a log file,
and editing it afterwards as needed.  and just the mere fact that i
*have* to adapt my editor to ipython's indentation policy (or vice
versa) whenever working with others' code because otherwise the code
fails, is fairly annoying.  there is nothing wrong or stupid about the
editor in this respect.


> The only reason why you may want to write crap code without proper
> formatting is because your text editor is stupid.

'proper' formatting is, in some languages, something achieved by
simply running a pretty formatter.  in some, it's the job of the
programmer.  it has nothing to do with the claimed stupidity of the
editor.

> If that's the case,
> get rid of your text editor and find some tools that help you do the
> right thing the first time.

[...]

> If you're text editor has a problem with indenting, you have a
> terrible text editor. Period, end of sentence.
>

you're just wrong.


> You can't screw in bolts with a hammer, and you can't level with a
> saw.

... and you can't freely format you code with python.

> Don't try to write code in any language without a real text

'real'?  meaning one able to guess how to combine code from multiple
developers with different indentation policies, for example, one using
tabs, another four spaces, and yet another eight?  (which is not at
all uncommon, and not quite wrong or stupid.)

> editor that can do proper indentation. Don't let your teammates use
> deficient text editors either. I wouldn't appreciate it if I delivered
> precision components that my teammates tried to install with
> sledgehammers.
>
> This is the 21st Century. Good text editors are not hard to find on
> any platform.

'stupid', 'wrong', 'deficient', 'terrible', ...  you're using strong
words instead of concrete arguments, it might intimidate your
opponents, but is hardly helpful in a fair discussion.

vQ




From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Feb  9 05:01:04 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:01:04 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Klaus Neuner, 09.02.2010 10:04:
> my program is supposed to parse files that I have created myself and that
> are on my laptop. It is not supposed to interact with anybody else
> than me.

Famous last words.

Stefan


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 05:06:52 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 02:06:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Simulating logging.exception with another traceback
References: <0c13d3f7-addf-4972-91c3-6f41fadfb2b5@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<3512c1a4-01e3-449d-8e48-e673e668bb17@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1ec8b017-36cc-4ed2-b6d1-52ddc5015d13@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 8 feb, 21:13, Vinay Sajip <vinay_sa... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 11:22?am, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I would want to get the output from `logging.exception` but with
> > traceback from the caller function (I've already all that
> > information).
>
> > This would be the error withlogging.exception:
> > --------------------
> > ERROR:
> > ? PipeError('/bin/ls -l | ?', 'no command after of pipe')
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
> > 160, in __call__
> > ? ? raise PipeError(command, 'no command after of pipe')
> > PipeError: ('/bin/ls -l | ?', 'no command after of pipe')
> > --------------------
>
> > And I've trying it with:
> > --------------------
> > message = "File \"{0}\", line {1}, in {2}\n\n ?{3}".format(
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? file, line, function, caller)logging.error(message)
>
> > ERROR:
> > ? File "/data/neo/Proyectos/Python/Scripy/lib/scripy/shell.py", line
> > ? 163, in __call__ ? ?return self.throw(PipeError, command, 'no
> > ? command after of pipe')
> > --------------------
>
> > Could be used `logging.LogRecord` [1] to get it? How?
>
> > [1]http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html#logging.LogRecord
>
> Sorry, Joan,
>
> I don't understand your question. Can you create a short script which
> throws an exception, and show exactly how you want it formatted?
>
> The logger.exception method does the same as logger.error, except that
> it prints exception trace information and is intended to be called
> from exception handling clauses. You can format exceptions how you
> like by subclassing Formatter and overriding formatException.
>
> Regards,
>
> Vinay Sajip

Hi!
I want to throw `logging.exception()` [1] but using the traceback of
caller's function, so:

---------
up=1
frame = traceback.extract_stack(limit=up+2)
---------

Reading the code, `traceback.print_exception` prints the message from
a record got with `LogRecord.getMessage()` [2] So I'm supposed that
I'd have to use it to get a new record that can be used by
`traceback.print_exception`.


[1] http://code.python.org/hg/branches/release2.6-maint-full/file/f5a05355fe48/Lib/logging/__init__.py#l408
[2] http://code.python.org/hg/branches/release2.6-maint-full/file/f5a05355fe48/Lib/logging/__init__.py#l423


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 05:11:05 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:11:05 -0300
Subject: Need installer recommendation
References: <6q2rm5htqdj2puinbg9pmkco8o6nhd72h5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7uukry1x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Sat, 06 Feb 2010 12:45:39 -0300, Alan Biddle <ALANBIDDLE70 at yahoo.com>
escribi?:

> I could use a recommendation on a free installer for use by an
> unsophisticated programmer, that would be me, for some simple programs
> which are a bit more than "Hello World," but only a little.  Basically
> reading text files and processing the results.  Nothing fancy.  I am
> using PY2EXE to create the distribution.
>
> In doing the Google, and from past posting here, I see that most
> recommendations are for inno and nsis.  I expect that either would do
> what I want.  Is one a better choice for someone to learn enough to do
> basic stuff without getting bogged down in details which are not
> immediately important?

I, for myself, prefer InnoSetup. For a simple and standard installer, just
use the wizard to create it, and you're done.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 05:11:09 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:11:09 -0300
Subject: Pickling an extension type subclasses problems
References: <b777f2e01002050625j48ebcf9fl80dfa6e68ccee0e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7uukvb6x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:25:02 -0300, Gaetan de Menten <gdementen at gmail.com>
escribi?:

> I am trying to write an (optional!) C extension for SQLAlchemy, and I
> am struggling to make an extension type picklable *and* using the same
> format as the pure Python version (so that computers with the C
> extension can unpickle pickles from computers without it and
> vice-versa). [...]
> My last hope is to define __reduce__ on the Python
> side too,

That seems reasonable.

> and make it use a module-level "reconstructor" function as
> follow:
>
> def mypythontype_reconstructor(cls, state):
>     obj = object.__new__(cls, state):
>     ....
>     return obj
>
> Will this work? Any other idea?

If you're going to call object.__new__(cls, state) anyway, then just
return the object's type as the first item in __reduce__; no need to
create such global function


-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 05:25:42 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:25:42 +0100
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <49d5eb96-1a07-47a3-bc7b-e54ab963151d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<49d5eb96-1a07-47a3-bc7b-e54ab963151d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B713826.6010009@sequans.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Feb 8, 12:20 pm, spike <pwashingto... at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
>> flow chart?
>>
>> An example can be seen on the right under History:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>>
>> This would be very helpful for all users.
>>     
>
>
> Begin
>   |
>   |
>   V
> Start Editor
>   |
>   |
>   V
> Write Code <----+
>   |             |
>   |             |
>   V             |
> Run Python      |
>   |             |
>   |             | No.
>   V             |
> Did it do what you want?
>   |
>   | Yes.
>   |
>   V
> Stop.
>
>
> HTH.
>
>
> Carl Banks
>   

I use this one:

Begin
  |
  |
  V
Start Mail client
  |
  |
  V
Ask python-list <-----+
  |                   |
  |                   |
  V            what a bunch of dumbass       
wait 2 min            |
  |                   |
  |                   | No.
  V                   |
Did you get any answer ?
  |
  | Yes.
  |
  V
Stop.



JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 05:39:58 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:39:58 +0100
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <4B713826.6010009@sequans.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>	<49d5eb96-1a07-47a3-bc7b-e54ab963151d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4B713826.6010009@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B713B7E.3080302@sequans.com>


>>   
>
> I use this one:
>
> Begin
>  |
>  |
>  V
> Start Mail client
>  |
>  |
>  V
> Ask python-list <-----+
>  |                   |
>  |                   |
>  V            what a bunch of dumbass       wait 2 min            |
>  |                   |
>  |                   | No.
>  V                   |
> Did you get any answer ?
>  |
>  | Yes.
>  |
>  V
> Stop.
>
>
>
> JM
How to miss a joke thanks to some crappy line word wraping whatsoever 
feature. I'll burn thunderbird. Don't use it !


JM


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 05:44:57 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Feb 2010 10:44:57 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> A copyable reference is a pointer. That is, a "pointer", in e.g. the
> Java sense, 
>   and in the general language independent sense, means a copyable
>   reference  -- as illustrated e.g. in the Stanford computer science
>   101 course page I 
> referred you to earlier, with C versus Java pointers illustrated in
> the concrete. 

The fact that C style pointers are used internally is an detail of the 
CPython implementation.

In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location (and 
their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the objects 
themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed address. Try 
comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers and you'll cause a 
lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the id() value is in some way 
related to an address.

Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's nothing 
in the Python specification which prevents a Python implementation doing 
the same for small integers, in fact I believe it has been tried but wasn't 
found to improve performance.

The terminology of 'objects', 'names', 'references' describes an abstract 
machine. The Python runtime can implement it in any way it chooses so long 
as those semantics are preserved. One implementation involves 'pointers', 
but that word implies other baggage which is not a required part of the 
model.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb  9 05:50:05 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:50:05 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied (Firewall)
In-Reply-To: <hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkrekv$r5m$1@news.eternal-september.org>

(corrected typos)
I decided to go with outbound in McAfee. Now when I run the program, I 
get a long list of messages about deprecations and  NumpyTest will be 
removed in the next release. please update code to nose or unittest.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 07:31:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:31:17 -0500
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
In-Reply-To: <656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkrklk$rld$1@ger.gmane.org>

spike wrote:
> On Feb 8, 1:35 pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>> spike wrote:
>>> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
>>> flow chart?
>>> An example can be seen on the right under History:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>>> This would be very helpful for all users.
>> Huh???  What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>>
>> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?
>>
>> Gary Herron
> 
> Do you know what "Logic" means? Guess not. Before you comedians quit
> your day job some people are looking for information. If you have
> nothing positive to say, go pester somewhere else.
> 
> Grow up.

Oh right, we forgot, it's our duty to answer every question that comes
in, seriously and to the point, no matter how badly it is phrased and
how obnoxious the questioner becomes when the answer is not immediately
forthcoming.

This is the Intarwebs. I suggest it's *you* who needs to grow up.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 07:38:42 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:38:42 -0500
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <89d4fa66-8749-4551-909b-96f9182fd8c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<89d4fa66-8749-4551-909b-96f9182fd8c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkrl3h$u2v$1@ger.gmane.org>

Phlip wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
> 
>> I don't know if it was the reason it was rejected, but a seriously
>> divisive question is whether the path should be a subset of string.
> 
> OMG that's nothing but the OO "circle vs ellipse" non-question. Glad
> to see the Committee derailed a perfectly good library over such
> sophistry.
> 
That's nothing but the most arrant nonsense, as you would discover if
you took the trouble to read the discussion on python-dev instead of
jumping to conclusions.

>> Under ordinary circumstances it would be a poor choice for inheritance
>> (only a few string methods would be useful fot a pathname), but some
>> people were fiercely adamant that paths should be passable to open()
>> as-in (without having to explicity convert to string).
> 
> That's just silly. To be object-based, you should say path.open('r').
> fopen() and its ilk are too 1960s...
> 
What? Are you arguing for "myfile.txt".open('r') to be a valid Python
construct? If not then surely you can see that paths would require
different treatment from strings, which was the main thrust of the
discussion on the dev list.

I find it really irritating when the clueless come along and criticize
decisions made by the developers after thorough discussion. Not only do
decisions have to be made about how code is going to work (and work for
the next twenty years or so), but someone has to commit to maintaining
the code before it goes in (otherwise Python will be full of bit-rot).

To call your criticism ill-informed would be flattering it.

> My 5th Grade science teacher, one Eunice Feight, once expressed
> chagrin for submitting a proposal to Readers' Digest, and getting it
> accepted. She sold them the following sloka:
> 
>   Don't be clever don't be witty
>   Or you'll wind up BEING the Committee!
> 
Criticism isn't pretty
Specially when your logic's shitty.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 07:40:55 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:40:55 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkrl7m$u2v$2@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com
> <mailto:steve at holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Stephen Hansen wrote:
>     [...]
>     > P.S. I couldn't resist. :(
>     >
> 
>     And here I was, sitting on my hands ... but someone was wrong on the
>     Internet, so D'Aprano had to put them right. Your fatal weakness.
> 
>     Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
>     word,' said Humpty ..."
> 
> 
> This is getting out of hand.
> 
> First, someone thought I was you.
> 
> Now you think I'm D'Aprano.
> 
> I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on. 
> 
> :)
> 
Sorry about that, Bob. But you have to admit your pedantry was rather
D'Aprano-like (I have these feeling I just insulted you both with one
sentence).

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 07:44:38 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:44:38 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkrlel$u2v$3@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Stephen Hansen:
[...]
>> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it
>> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org
>> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem
>> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>
>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
> 
> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
> 
Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb  9 07:52:02 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:52:02 -0800
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <hkrl3h$u2v$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<89d4fa66-8749-4551-909b-96f9182fd8c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkrl3h$u2v$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002090452g502c30c7jaea48a4e4f821a37@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:38 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Phlip wrote:
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if it was the reason it was rejected, but a seriously
>>> divisive question is whether the path should be a subset of string.
>>
>> OMG that's nothing but the OO "circle vs ellipse" non-question. Glad
>> to see the Committee derailed a perfectly good library over such
>> sophistry.
>>
> That's nothing but the most arrant nonsense, as you would discover if
> you took the trouble to read the discussion on python-dev instead of
> jumping to conclusions.
>
>>> Under ordinary circumstances it would be a poor choice for inheritance
>>> (only a few string methods would be useful fot a pathname), but some
>>> people were fiercely adamant that paths should be passable to open()
>>> as-in (without having to explicity convert to string).
>>
>> That's just silly. To be object-based, you should say path.open('r').
>> fopen() and its ilk are too 1960s...
>>
> What? Are you arguing for "myfile.txt".open('r') to be a valid Python
> construct? If not then surely you can see that paths would require
> different treatment from strings, which was the main thrust of the
> discussion on the dev list.

Based on the context, I'm /pretty/ sure he was (implicitly) talking
about e.g. Path("myfile.txt").open('r').

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From roy at panix.com  Tue Feb  9 08:21:35 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:21:35 -0500
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <roy-D50219.08213509022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
> 
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
> 
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption 
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
> 
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>  - atbash
>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>  - Keyword
>  - Affine
>  - Vigenere
>  - frob (xor)

No pig latin?


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:00:23 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:00:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<7tceiuF94hU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Gregory Ewing wrote:

> It wouldn't just be open() that people would want modified --
> it would be every other function that takes a pathname as
> well.

Then refer to the same argument against implicit type conversions in C+
+.

A ::std::string must call .c_str() to turn into a lowly char*, before
passing into a C function. Advocating for 8 characters of convenience
opens the risk of silent bugs at refactor time.

> I seem to recall another point of contention was whether
> path objects should have methods for accessing the file
> system (opening files, renaming them, etc.) or whether it
> should confine itself to representing and manipulating
> pathnames.

In that case, the package I picked seems to have "erred" on the side
of programmer convenience.

Because the basic file operations (exist, stat, move/rename, copy,
open, chmod, unlink) come as a complete and whole kit, a class should
simply present that kit, insulating against filesystem differences.

> In any case, introducing any kind of path object at this
> late stage of the language's development would result in
> More Than One Way to represent pathnames, with neither of
> them being the obvious choice.

Ah, now we get down to the root of the problem. Because Python is so
stuck on the "one best way to do it" mentality, language bigotry
prevented the Committee from picking from among several equally valid
but non-best options. And after 20 years of growth, Python still has
no Pathname class. What a mature community! C-:

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?MoreliaViridis


From tiagokatcipis at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:01:31 2010
From: tiagokatcipis at gmail.com (Tiago Katcipis)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:01:31 -0200
Subject: event handling in pyuthon
In-Reply-To: <581ce2791002082320t2af425ffif36e6683e08cd038@mail.gmail.com>
References: <581ce2791002082320t2af425ffif36e6683e08cd038@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60a9403b1002090601v783534e2q496b499070dbed61@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:20 AM, Bujji <sivaits4u at gmail.com> wrote:

> hi all,
> any event handling mechanisms in python ?
> i want event handler examples in python
>

dont know if it is this that you are looking for:

http://home.gna.org/py-notify/


>
>
> Thanks
> Bujji
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From Carolyn.Nevills at fortbend.k12.tx.us  Tue Feb  9 09:04:53 2010
From: Carolyn.Nevills at fortbend.k12.tx.us (Nevills, Carolyn)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:04:53 -0600
Subject: Plese take me off the mailing list
Message-ID: <C449F727B3D3DA4D87688B34A08D72D80284EC73@EXCH01.District.FBISD.Local>

Good morning,

 

Please take my name off your mailing list .

 

Thanks,

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From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:11:24 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:11:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
Message-ID: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

I have a simple tcp server and client where the server sits and waits
for a message and then processes it, my client sends its first message
to the server.  On the server I receive:

socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
when calling
msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)

My client receives the error:
socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
when calling
msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)

I was working on the server and client over the weekend and sending
and receiving worked fine, I wanted to debug a few things and I get
this when I try to run it (no changes made from what I had on the
weekend)


From ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM  Tue Feb  9 09:17:40 2010
From: ALANBIDDLE70 at YAHOO.COM (Alan Biddle)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:17:40 -0600
Subject: Need installer recommendation
References: <6q2rm5htqdj2puinbg9pmkco8o6nhd72h5@4ax.com>
	<mailman.2210.1265710287.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ter2n51d16r3j338q8e0bjrlplj8n9vao5@4ax.com>

Thanks you very much for the suggestion.  I will give it a try.  

Since I posted the original question, I have tried PyInstaller.  I am
using Python 2.6.4, which is technically not supported, but it worked
fine for the simple programs I tried, and simple enough even for me.
;)


--
Alan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 09:30:55 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:30:55 -0500
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkrrm0$kq9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> I have a simple tcp server and client where the server sits and waits
> for a message and then processes it, my client sends its first message
> to the server.  On the server I receive:
> 
> socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
> when calling
> msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
> 
> My client receives the error:
> socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
> when calling
> msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
> 
> I was working on the server and client over the weekend and sending
> and receiving worked fine, I wanted to debug a few things and I get
> this when I try to run it (no changes made from what I had on the
> weekend)

My car has this problem. It makes a noise when it rolls along the road.
I've brought the wheel for you to take a look at, can you fix it,
please? ;-)

A little more context might be helpful - at least the error traceback
and the code that makes the socket calls. I presume you are using TCP
judging by the client error message. This implies the server isn't
listening. Have you correctly bound the socket to an IP address and port
before issuing an accept() call?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From misceverything at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 09:52:26 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:52:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 2:25?pm, David Bolen <db3l.... at gmail.com> wrote:
> T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> writes:
> > I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> > account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> > program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> > I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> > an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> > service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> > trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> > would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!
>
> The LocalSystem account is not, if I recall correctly, permitted to
> access the network.
>
> You'll have to install the service to run under some other account that
> has appropriate access to the network.
>
> -- David

The more testing I do, I think you may be right..I was able to get it
to work under a local admin account, and it worked under debug mode
(which would also have been running as this user).  I'm a bit
surprised though - I was under the assumption that LocalSystem had
rights to access the network?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 09:56:41 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:56:41 +0100
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7177A9.30809@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> I have a simple tcp server and client where the server sits and waits
> for a message and then processes it, my client sends its first message
> to the server.  On the server I receive:
>
> socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
> when calling
> msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
>
> My client receives the error:
> socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
> when calling
> msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
>
> I was working on the server and client over the weekend and sending
> and receiving worked fine, I wanted to debug a few things and I get
> this when I try to run it (no changes made from what I had on the
> weekend)
>   
Unless you want to know more about net coding, I would suggest to use 
libraries for that.
Pyro or xmlrpclib are among the most used.

Then if you have any connection problem, that's because there is a 
connection problem. Not because you mess up with your net code.

JM




From python-url at phaseit.net  Tue Feb  9 10:03:02 2010
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:03:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb  9)
Message-ID: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>

QOTW:  "You see? That's what I like about the Python community: people even
apologise for apologising :)" - Tim Golden
     http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/858d1c31d0c2adff


    The third alpha version of Python 2.7 is ready for testing:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/6f49dacfe8759508/
    
    How to enumerate all possible strings matching a given regular expression:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/1b78346c6661ac4f/
    
    Which language features do you like most?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/599b3c9772421ece/
    
    Implementing a two-dimensional array in a simple way seems to actually
    be more efficient than other, more sophisticated alternatives:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/55e595d6dc4ca3f4/
    
    The new GIL (to be implemented in Python 3.2) will provide less overhead,
    especially in multicore CPUs:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/586ef2d3685fa7ea/
    
    In Python 3, 'exec' inside a function does not have the same effect
    as before:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/7a046e4ede9c310a/
    
    Using Queue objects to feed and synchronize several worker threads:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/32256dd608c9c02/
    
    New generation IDEs should provide much better and integrated
    refactoring tools:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e019614ea149e7bd/
    
    There is no module in the standard library to handle filesystem paths
    in an OO way - but why?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonf580fb3763208425ece/
    
    A "History Channel" special: how the way a TAB key was interpreted
    changed over time
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python82d9181fcd31ffea3f4/
    
    After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or
    Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonfd36962c4970ac487ea/

    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" site:
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    nullege is an interesting search Web application, with the intelligence
    to distinguish between Python code and comments.  It provides what
    appear to be relevant results, and demands neither Java nor CSS be
    enabled:
	http://www.nullege.com

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:20:33 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:20:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

I found my car ;)

here's the server:

class commServer:
    """Class to hold a tcp server and interact with with it
    allows for a wrapper around socket class to keep code clean"""

    def __init__ (self, host, hostid, port, buff =1024):
        self.host = host
        self.hostid = hostid #id of the server
        self.port = port
        self.buffer = buff
        self.socket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.conn = None
        self.addr = None

    def bindServ(self):
        """Connect to the server specified by self.host, self.port"""
        self.socket.bind((self.host, self.port))
    def closeConn(self):
        """Disconnect from the server connected to"""
        self.conn.close()
    def listen(self):
        self.socket.listen(1)
    def accept(self):
        self.conn, self.addr = self.socket.accept()

    #lets you send a string msg to the server
    def sendMSG(self, msg):
        self.conn.send(msg)
    #lets you receive data from the server
    def recvMSG(self):
        msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
        if msg == "": #if the client disconnected let's not throw
            return False
        else:
            return msg


class Negotiator:
    """Negotiator for the server handles all communication with the
client to
    verify the server and prepare the file the client wants for
download"""
    def __init__(self, host, hostid, port, rsa_key):
        self.server = commServer(host,hostid,port)

    def Negotiate(self):
        self.server.bindServ()
        self.server.listen()
        self.server.accept()

        #Plan on being asked for server confirmation
        clmsg = self.server.recvMSG()  # it fails right here on the
server


calling the Server Negotiator as:
host = "127.0.0.1"
port = 8005
HOSTID = a string
key = an RSA key
servernegotiator = Negotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
if servernegotiator.Negotiate() == False:
    print "something went wrong"
print "Done"



for the client it is:
class commClient:
    """Class to hold a tcp client and interact with with it
    allows for a wrapper around socket class to keep code clean"""

    def __init__ (self, host, hostid, port, buff =1024):
        self.host = host
        self.hostid = hostid #id of the server
        self.port = port
        self.buffer = buff
        self.socket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
socket.SOCK_STREAM)

    def connectServ(self):
        """Connect to the server specified by self.host, self.port"""
        self.socket.connect((self.host, self.port))
    def disconnServ(self):
        """Disconnect from the server connected to"""
        self.socket.close()

    #lets you send a string msg to the server
    def sendMSG(self, msg):
        self.socket.send(msg)
    #lets you receive data from the server
    def recvMSG(self):
        msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
        if msg == "": #if the server disconnected let's not throw
something later
            return False
        else:
            return msg



class Negotiator:
    """The Negotiator handles all communications and message handling
    necessary for verifying the server, and that the file is available
to
    download"""
    def __init__(self, host, hostid, port, rsa_key):
        """client should be a commClient object that has not been
connected
        to the server."""
        self.client = commClient(host, hostid, port)
        self.clientKey = rsa_key
        self.serverKey = None
        self.CScipher = None #AES cipher for client -> server
        self.SCcipher = None #AES cipher for server -> client
        self.CShalves = None #tuple for random halves by client
        self.SChalves = None #tuple for random halves by server
        self.file = None


    def Negotiate(self, fname):
        """Contact the server, verify the server,
        negotiates for a file to be downloaded by the client.  It
returns
        the file name to be downloaded, and the cipher to decrypt
it."""

        self.client.connectServ()
        print "connected"

        #tell the server you want to connect
        clmsg = message(CONN, (self.client.getHost(),
                               self.client.getHostID())) #message acts
as a wrapper around a message type and the data for the type
        self.client.sendMSG(clmsg.getSendable())    # here is were it
fails

the Negotiator is called as:
host = "127.0.0.1"
port = 8005
HOSTID is the same string as before
key is an RSA key
clientnegotiator = Negotiator(host, HostID, port, key)
filename = clientnegotiator.Negotiate("hostid")

the stack traces are:
Server side:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Server.py", line 17, in <module>
    if servernegotiator.Negotiate() == False:
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ServerNegotiator.py", line 184, in Negotiate
    clmsg = self.server.recvMSG()
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ServerNegotiator.py", line 67, in recvMSG
    msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected

Client Side:
 File "Client.py", line 17, in <module>
    filename = clientnegotiator.Negotiate("hostid")
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ClientNegotiator.py", line 209, in Negotiate
    srvmsg = self.client.recvMSG()
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ClientNegotiator.py", line 55, in recvMSG
    msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer




From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:21:28 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:21:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<4576331d-fb60-499e-aff6-f61a4c0fc01e@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cb24792a-6dc0-44d1-a08e-77732c5439f1@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 12:15?am, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> You may be able to monkey patch an OrderedDict into the PlistParser.
> Here's an untested stab at it:
>
> ? ? from collections import OrderedDict
> ? ? import plistlib
> ? ? plistlib._InteralDict = OrderedDict

Genius! After fixing the misspelled InteralDict I got this:

from collections import OrderedDict
import plistlib
plistlib._InternalDict = OrderedDict
plistlib.readPlist('/path/to/some.plist')

--> OrderedDict([('List', 'of'), ('tuples', 'in'), ('plist',
'order')])

So thank you for that [somewhat contorted] solution. (PyN00b): Now how
do I extract the list from the function?

-- Gnarlie


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb  9 10:23:59 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:23:59 +0100
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<7tceiuF94hU1@mid.individual.net>
	<d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b717e07$0$14666$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Phlip a ?crit :
> Gregory Ewing wrote:
> 
>> In any case, introducing any kind of path object at this
>> late stage of the language's development would result in
>> More Than One Way to represent pathnames, with neither of
>> them being the obvious choice.
> 
> Ah, now we get down to the root of the problem. Because Python is so
> stuck on the "one best way to do it"
> mentality, language bigotry
> prevented the Committee from picking from among several equally valid
> but non-best options.

You failed to actually _read_ what you're answering to. Try again. Using 
your brain, this time.



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:27:06 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:27:06 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090727t23ccd46fy9289ed56d93ce929@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> Right.
>
> "pass by value" is a lower level notion.
>
> And as you show below, in the paragraph marked [1], it can be used to
> describe call by sharing very succinctly and precisely, just as I did... ;-)


No. There's nothing at all succinct or precise about either "value" or
"reference" when speaking of programming languages, and using both together
just compounds that. They are loaded words. The phrase "call my value where
value is an object reference" is not clear, not obvious, not helpful. It
requires far too much explanation of every single word there, depending on
the background of who you are speaking to, to explain how it does not
exactly use any of the words in a way which the person may be expecting, and
making sure they understand that it does not imply anything that those words
usually imply.

I'm not even going to bother further-- I shouldn't have to begin with-- your
entire post is full of arguments with no more weight then, "I say this means
that, and its clearer" with absolutely no regard for the fact that all of
these words have weight and meaning to the world outside of your head.

Python has objects, and objects have names. Objects are never copied
implicitly, and objects can be referred to by many names in many places,
thus you may share those objects as you see fit. Some objects you may
change, some objects you may not. An object exists so long as someone has a
name for it. Period, end of line.

That's the mental model and passing model that is valid in Python. There are
no "copyable references", because a reference is a 'thing' and copying it is
an action. In Python there are simply objects. That's where the abstraction
begins and ends.

What is so obvious, precise, succinct and clear to YOU is mixing loaded
terms with a implications and semantic expectations from countless other
languages and sources in computer science. If you want to think of things
that way in your head, then by all means, do so.

But it doesn't make it right, and further arguing is clearly just not going
to do any good. You're insisting on using imprecise terminology common to
other languages in complicated ways together to describe very simple things.

Python has objects, objects are given various names.

It helps no one to try to artificially create an abstraction above that
which the language provides as you are doing.

I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it as a
>> mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org <
>> http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem to
>> get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>
>>
>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
>>
>
> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>

I participate with the community via python-list; I take no responsibility
for the deficiency of any particular usenet server which may or may not
mirror python-list accurately. Usenet's a fuzzy thing like that, with all
the servers cross-sharing and messages bouncing around. I have no need for
its complexity and unbounded freedom.

I'm subscribed to a mailing list, albeit a high-volume one. That its
cross-mirrored with a usenet group is something I have no control over, and
usenet is inherently beyond control. Its great that Gmane provides a means
of making usenet discussion groups accessible as mailing lists, but I don't
see any reason to bother.

--S
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From ericthecyclist at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:27:39 2010
From: ericthecyclist at gmail.com (CyclingGuy)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:27:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PostgreSQL driver for Python applications that supports bytea 
	correctly?
Message-ID: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Can anyone recommend a PostgreSQL driver for Python that supports
selecting and inserting bytea types?
I'm not looking to write server functions in Python, just client
applications.

Thank you
Eric.


From mgedmin at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:32:54 2010
From: mgedmin at gmail.com (Marius Gedminas)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:32:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 9)
References: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <c3716b15-6735-4308-8724-be8dff3661d1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

The last three URLs are malformed:

On Feb 9, 5:03?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <python-... at phaseit.net> wrote:
> ? ? There is no module in the standard library to handle filesystem paths
> ? ? in an OO way - but why?
> ? ? ? ?http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonf580fb3763208425ece/
>
> ? ? A "History Channel" special: how the way a TAB key was interpreted
> ? ? changed over time
> ? ? ? ?http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python82d9181fcd31ffea3f4/
>
> ? ? After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or
> ? ? Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
> ? ? ? ?http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonfd36962c4970ac487ea/

Any chance of getting them fixed?

Regards,
--
Marius Gedminas


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:34:57 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:34:57 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkrl7m$u2v$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqi5v$vki$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081848j6d15cac4uf8d5d31a34ca227e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkrl7m$u2v$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090734v324f8b5bic6d2bc675bce8cbe@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
> This is getting out of hand.
> >
> > First, someone thought I was you.
> >
> > Now you think I'm D'Aprano.
> >
> > I'm just gonna go by Bob for now on.
> >
> > :)
> >
> Sorry about that, Bob. But you have to admit your pedantry was rather
> D'Aprano-like (I have these feeling I just insulted you both with one
> sentence).
>

I'm not sure how I feel about the word /pedantry/ to describe what I have to
say (in fact, I sort of thought it might be better applied to the other side
of the discussion), but I don't see anything terribly insulting with being
confused with the other Ste[ph|v]en's floating around python-list, even
allowing for blowhard tendencies we may or may not have. :)

Even if I'm the only one who can spell his name right. :) <wink>

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:37:42 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:37:42 -0800
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 9)
In-Reply-To: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
References: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090737o13b1fd48p8b688d5640eefead@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Gabriel Genellina <python-url at phaseit.net>wrote:

>    After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or
>    Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
>        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonfd36962c4970ac487ea/


LOL.

Can we set up some sort of "argh" filter on python-list, analogous to a spam
filter, which detects these threads and shunts them to
python-list-ohnoyoudidnt at python.org?

Because avoiding them is -hard-.


--S
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From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:37:50 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:37:50 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>

> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
>
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
>
> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>
> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>  - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>  - atbash
>  - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>  - Railfence (encryption only)
>  - Keyword
>  - Affine
>  - Vigenere
>  - frob (xor)
>
> and others.
>
> DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
> used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
> may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used
> where strong encryption is required.
>
> obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.
>
> Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.

Great, these packages are badly needed!

If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
think.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:47:35 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:47:35 -0800
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
In-Reply-To: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090747w39f4ec30i910557c79a8dcb29@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:54 AM, George Sakkis <george.sakkis at gmail.com>wrote:

> So I'm wondering if there is a consensus on when it's better to (hard)
> patch, monkey patch or just try to work around a third party package
> that doesn't do exactly what one would like. Does it have mainly to do
> with the reason for the patch (e.g. fixing a bug, modifying behavior,
> adding missing feature), the given package (size, complexity,
> maturity, developer responsiveness), something else or there are no
> general rules and one should decide on a case-by-case basis ?
>

IMHO, monkey-patching is one of those things that you shouldn't really
mention in the public without looking both ways, leaning in, and lowering
your voice.

Its not that its -bad- exactly, and its really not terribly kinky or
obscene, but its something that you still shouldn't exactly do in polite
company, y'know?

There's no guarantees it'll work forever, so its not the safest practice,
but if you're willing to accept the burden (and ideally have a unit test
proving that it still functions after an update to such a package), then...
consenting adults! Go ahead.

If you can get the upstream package to make such a thing not necessary,
that's ideal-er, of course.

--S
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 10:48:39 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:48:39 +0100
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7183D7.2010805@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> I found my car ;)
>
> here's the server:
>
> class commServer:
>     """Class to hold a tcp server and interact with with it
>     allows for a wrapper around socket class to keep code clean"""
>
>     def __init__ (self, host, hostid, port, buff =1024):
>         self.host = host
>         self.hostid = hostid #id of the server
>         self.port = port
>         self.buffer = buff
>         self.socket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
> socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>         self.conn = None
>         self.addr = None
>
>     def bindServ(self):
>         """Connect to the server specified by self.host, self.port"""
>         self.socket.bind((self.host, self.port))
>     def closeConn(self):
>         """Disconnect from the server connected to"""
>         self.conn.close()
>     def listen(self):
>         self.socket.listen(1)
>     def accept(self):
>         self.conn, self.addr = self.socket.accept()
>
>     #lets you send a string msg to the server
>     def sendMSG(self, msg):
>         self.conn.send(msg)
>     #lets you receive data from the server
>     def recvMSG(self):
>         msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
>         if msg == "": #if the client disconnected let's not throw
>             return False
>         else:
>             return msg
>
>
> class Negotiator:
>     """Negotiator for the server handles all communication with the
> client to
>     verify the server and prepare the file the client wants for
> download"""
>     def __init__(self, host, hostid, port, rsa_key):
>         self.server = commServer(host,hostid,port)
>
>     def Negotiate(self):
>         self.server.bindServ()
>         self.server.listen()
>         self.server.accept()
>
>         #Plan on being asked for server confirmation
>         clmsg = self.server.recvMSG()  # it fails right here on the
> server
>
>
> calling the Server Negotiator as:
> host = "127.0.0.1"
> port = 8005
> HOSTID = a string
> key = an RSA key
> servernegotiator = Negotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> if servernegotiator.Negotiate() == False:
>     print "something went wrong"
> print "Done"
>
>
>
> for the client it is:
> class commClient:
>     """Class to hold a tcp client and interact with with it
>     allows for a wrapper around socket class to keep code clean"""
>
>     def __init__ (self, host, hostid, port, buff =1024):
>         self.host = host
>         self.hostid = hostid #id of the server
>         self.port = port
>         self.buffer = buff
>         self.socket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
> socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>
>     def connectServ(self):
>         """Connect to the server specified by self.host, self.port"""
>         self.socket.connect((self.host, self.port))
>     def disconnServ(self):
>         """Disconnect from the server connected to"""
>         self.socket.close()
>
>     #lets you send a string msg to the server
>     def sendMSG(self, msg):
>         self.socket.send(msg)
>     #lets you receive data from the server
>     def recvMSG(self):
>         msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
>         if msg == "": #if the server disconnected let's not throw
> something later
>             return False
>         else:
>             return msg
>
>
>
> class Negotiator:
>     """The Negotiator handles all communications and message handling
>     necessary for verifying the server, and that the file is available
> to
>     download"""
>     def __init__(self, host, hostid, port, rsa_key):
>         """client should be a commClient object that has not been
> connected
>         to the server."""
>         self.client = commClient(host, hostid, port)
>         self.clientKey = rsa_key
>         self.serverKey = None
>         self.CScipher = None #AES cipher for client -> server
>         self.SCcipher = None #AES cipher for server -> client
>         self.CShalves = None #tuple for random halves by client
>         self.SChalves = None #tuple for random halves by server
>         self.file = None
>
>
>     def Negotiate(self, fname):
>         """Contact the server, verify the server,
>         negotiates for a file to be downloaded by the client.  It
> returns
>         the file name to be downloaded, and the cipher to decrypt
> it."""
>
>         self.client.connectServ()
>         print "connected"
>
>         #tell the server you want to connect
>         clmsg = message(CONN, (self.client.getHost(),
>                                self.client.getHostID())) #message acts
> as a wrapper around a message type and the data for the type
>         self.client.sendMSG(clmsg.getSendable())    # here is were it
> fails
>
> the Negotiator is called as:
> host = "127.0.0.1"
> port = 8005
> HOSTID is the same string as before
> key is an RSA key
> clientnegotiator = Negotiator(host, HostID, port, key)
> filename = clientnegotiator.Negotiate("hostid")
>
> the stack traces are:
> Server side:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Server.py", line 17, in <module>
>     if servernegotiator.Negotiate() == False:
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ServerNegotiator.py", line 184, in Negotiate
>     clmsg = self.server.recvMSG()
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ServerNegotiator.py", line 67, in recvMSG
>     msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
> socket.error: [Errno 107] Transport endpoint is not connected
>
> Client Side:
>  File "Client.py", line 17, in <module>
>     filename = clientnegotiator.Negotiate("hostid")
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ClientNegotiator.py", line 209, in Negotiate
>     srvmsg = self.client.recvMSG()
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ClientNegotiator.py", line 55, in recvMSG
>     msg = self.socket.recv(self.buffer)
> socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer
>
>
>   
http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 10:53:35 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:53:35 +0100
Subject: PostgreSQL driver for Python applications that supports bytea
	correctly?
In-Reply-To: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7184FF.7090405@sequans.com>

CyclingGuy wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a PostgreSQL driver for Python that supports
> selecting and inserting bytea types?
> I'm not looking to write server functions in Python, just client
> applications.
>
> Thank you
> Eric.
>   
Did you try any ?
I know about pgdb, and since it has a function called escape_bytea it 
may support this type...

JM


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 10:53:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:53:52 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002090727t23ccd46fy9289ed56d93ce929@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002090727t23ccd46fy9289ed56d93ce929@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hks0hi$7t0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:35 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no
> <mailto:alfps at start.no>> wrote:
> 
>     Right.
> 
>     "pass by value" is a lower level notion.
> 
>     And as you show below, in the paragraph marked [1], it can be used
>     to describe call by sharing very succinctly and precisely, just as I
>     did... ;-)
> 
> 
> No. There's nothing at all succinct or precise about either "value" or
> "reference" when speaking of programming languages, and using both
> together just compounds that. They are loaded words. The phrase "call my
> value where value is an object reference" is not clear, not obvious, not
> helpful. It requires far too much explanation of every single word
> there, depending on the background of who you are speaking to, to
> explain how it does not exactly use any of the words in a way which the
> person may be expecting, and making sure they understand that it does
> not imply anything that those words usually imply.
> 
> I'm not even going to bother further-- I shouldn't have to begin with--
> your entire post is full of arguments with no more weight then, "I say
> this means that, and its clearer" with absolutely no regard for the fact
> that all of these words have weight and meaning to the world outside of
> your head.
> 
[several paragraphs-worth of bothering further]

So you didn't believe me when I said

> Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
> word,' said Humpty ..."

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:54:13 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:54:13 -0800
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090754r37a63ef2y2e02e47b4179bbeb@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:39 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have thought funny things
> If we think all languages are like a family
> I could draft them like this (Python base)
>
> C is Python's Mom
>
I can see this.


> C++ : Dad
>
Ick, no. C++ is the dirty Uncle who gets touchy with us in inappropriate
ways.


> Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents
>
o.O


> C#   : Uncle

Java : Aunt

 If C# and Java are our parents siblings and we're older by quite a bit then
them, then... that implies some sort of shady things in our family tree!
Maybe Grandpappy married a bombshell just out of high school and managed to
knock her up.

Then again, we did take some stuff from both. So maybe C# and Java are our
neighbors, and our sister had an affair with one of them and got knocked up,
and so we got the "logging" package and decorators and.

Er.

I fail at this analogy.

Ruby: Cousin
>
I can see this.


> Perl : Girlfriend
>
You seriously need to duck and run for cover at this one. Someone on one of
our sides is going to throw a rock at you now. :)

--S
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:55:47 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:55:47 +0100
Subject: timer for a function
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081844h5a280e94k794ddc5d0df77610@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hkhk45$jvp$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081844h5a280e94k794ddc5d0df77610@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hks0g7$8nk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
>     Question: how can I do that? Use another threaded class? Is there
>     some other way?

First of all, thanks for answer!

> What OS? Does this have to be OS-independant? 

Err, sorry -- this is Linux/UNIX only.

> Are you using more then 
> one transport/SSLClient in your process and you want to just kill one 
> (and any of its child threads), or are you doing one per process?

I'm using multiple threads myself, one per IP basically, which in turn 
call paramiko calls, which itself is threaded.

> If you want to terminate -all- threads your process is running in a 
> given timeframe, using a SIGALRM in the signal module will do it, I 
> believe-- provided you don't need to support windows. 

Thanks, that's still useful! Although...

1. if I don't install signal handler for SIGALRM I get this printed on 
the console at the end of execution:

Alarm clock

Although it does seem to close cleanly.

Is there any way to suppress this message?


2. If I do install signal handler for SIGALRM, I'm back at square one:

Exception in thread Thread-25 (most likely raised during interpreter 
shutdown):
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/threading.py", line 442, in __bootstrap
   File "./cssh.py", line 1003, in run
   File "./cssh.py", line 739, in ssh_connect_for_scp
   File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/paramiko/transport.py", line 1006, 
in connect
   File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/paramiko/transport.py", line 1382, 
in _log
exceptions.TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
Unhandled exception in thread started by

This happens even though I surround "connect" (line 1006) with catching 
all Exceptions:

try:
     self.trans.connect(hostkey=None, username=self.username, pkey = pkey)
except Exception, e:
     self.conerror = str(e)

	

>I had a contextlib 
> manager do that for awhile. If you only want to terminate one (and its 
> child-threads)... you're out of luck, I think. The only way to terminate 
> a thread in Python is with conditions/events/whatever and the thread 
> cooperating and exiting on its own.

I will probably have to get the library author look at this.

Regards,
mk



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 10:59:13 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:59:13 -0800
Subject: Socket Error: Permission Denied
In-Reply-To: <hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqkhq$5vd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkqlc9$bq0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090759s3c94f2a8wd3ccb18b8faa9012@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:38 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

> I'm using McAffee. I see it was pythonw.exe blocked in red. There are
> several choices: Allow Access, Allow Outboubnd only
> Block (current), Remove Prgrm permission, Learn More.
>
> Outbound only seem reasonable, but why does the blocking keep returning
> every many hours, or maybe when I reboot, which I've done several times
> today?


I can't help you with McAfee, contact their support forums.

As for outbound vs anything else... pythonw.exe needs to accept connections
at least on the local machine. No idea how to get McAfee to allow that.
Outbound may not be sufficient, you may need just Allow.

--S
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From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:07:42 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:07:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<4576331d-fb60-499e-aff6-f61a4c0fc01e@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <663dd630-f029-4b6f-909e-52ce79adbbd1@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 12:15?am, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> You may be able to monkey patch an OrderedDict into the PlistParser.
> Here's an untested stab at it:
> ? ? from collections import OrderedDict
> ? ? import plistlib
> ? ? plistlib._InteralDict = OrderedDict


Genius! After fixing the misspelled InteralDict I got this:

from collections import OrderedDict
import plistlib
plistlib._InternalDict = OrderedDict
plistlib.readPlist('/path/to/some.plist')
--> OrderedDict([('List', 'of'), ('tuples', 'in'), ('plist',
'order')])

So thank you for that [somewhat contorted] solution.
To extract the list I am saying this:

ordered=plistlib.readPlist(path)
print(list(ordered))  # only a list of keys
print(ordered[list(ordered)[0]])

However this seems too laborious. is there an easier way?

-- Gnarlie



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 11:10:56 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:10:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
Message-ID: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>

What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:

   start = time.clock()
   [stuff being timed]
   stop  = time.clock()

   delta = stop-start


However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
MS-bashing here]

Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
(say in the 1-10ms range)?

Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
that time.clock() works right?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! If I felt any more
                                  at               SOPHISTICATED I would DIE
                               visi.com            of EMBARRASSMENT!


From rodrick.brown at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:13:35 2010
From: rodrick.brown at gmail.com (rodrick brown)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:13:35 -0500
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53AA95DE-1589-466E-BEE3-7B95728C766E@gmail.com>

Don't forget his little brother Go!

Sent from my iPhone 3GS.

On Feb 8, 2010, at 8:39 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have thought funny things
> If we think all languages are like a family
> I could draft them like this (Python base)
>
> C is Python's Mom
> C++ : Dad
> Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents
> C#   : Uncle
> Java : Ant
> Ruby: Cousin
> Perl : Girlfriend
>
>
> What u guys think? XD
> -- 
> Passion is my style
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Feb  9 11:21:17 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:21:17 +0000
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 9)
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002090737o13b1fd48p8b688d5640eefead@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
	<7a9c25c21002090737o13b1fd48p8b688d5640eefead@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B718B7D.8050603@timgolden.me.uk>

On 09/02/2010 15:37, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Gabriel Genellina<python-url at phaseit.net>wrote:
>
>>     After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or
>>     Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
>>         http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.pythonfd36962c4970ac487ea/
>
>
> LOL.
>
> Can we set up some sort of "argh" filter on python-list, analogous to a spam
> filter, which detects these threads and shunts them to
> python-list-ohnoyoudidnt at python.org?
>
> Because avoiding them is -hard-.

Oh no it isn't!

(Sorry; couldn't resist)

TJG


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:29:42 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:29:42 -0600
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>> I am pleased to announce the first public release of obfuscate 0.2.2a.
>>
>> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/0.2.2a
>>
>> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
>> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>>
>> obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
>>   - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
>>   - atbash
>>   - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
>>   - Railfence (encryption only)
>>   - Keyword
>>   - Affine
>>   - Vigenere
>>   - frob (xor)
>>
>> and others.
>>
>> DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
>> used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
>> may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used
>> where strong encryption is required.
>>
>> obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.
>>
>> Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.
>
> Great, these packages are badly needed!
>
> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
> think.

Why?

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From jpahonthe at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:33:32 2010
From: jpahonthe at gmail.com (r. clayton)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:33:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b25d2055-06a1-478e-b687-e702deb7ec1f@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>


> http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html
>
> JM

each time a handler is spawned is it client specific? in other words
when two clients send something to the server do handlers spawn for
each of them or does everything just go into a single handler?


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:36:25 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:36:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>


> http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html
>
> JM

each time a handler is spawned is it client specific? in other words
when two clients send something to the server do handlers spawn for
each of them or does everything just go into a single handler?


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb  9 11:49:21 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:49:21 +0100
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

On Feb 8, 2010, at 8:39 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have thought funny things
>> If we think all languages are like a family

Then it would be a very incestuous family fore sure.

>> I could draft them like this (Python base)
>>
>> C is Python's Mom
>> C++ : Dad

Not that much C++ in Python, IMHO. If that's for the OO part, then the 
closer to Python's object model I can think of is javascript.

Historically, Python comes from ABC, which itself comes from SETL.

>> Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents

Assembly ? What about binary machine code then ?-)

>> C#   : Uncle
>> Java : Ant

Interesting typo here !-)

Hmmm... Python predates both C# and Java. Ok, technically speaking 
nothing prevents an uncle or aunt from being younger than their nephews, 
and I even saw the case a couple time - but that's far from being the 
common case.

>> Ruby: Cousin
>> Perl : Girlfriend

Then it's kind of a very passionate love-hate relationship - bordering 
on pathological FWIW !-)

Now you forgot the whole Lisp / ML heritage - most FP stuff -, and of 
course Simula and Smalltalk.



From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb  9 11:51:15 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:51:15 -0500
Subject: PostgreSQL driver for Python applications that supports bytea 
	correctly?
In-Reply-To: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100209115115.fd6bd546.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:27:39 -0800 (PST)
CyclingGuy <ericthecyclist at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a PostgreSQL driver for Python that supports
> selecting and inserting bytea types?
> I'm not looking to write server functions in Python, just client
> applications.

http://www.PyGreSQL.org/

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb  9 11:56:14 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:56:14 -0800
Subject: Programing family
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7xaavi5owh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:
> Now you forgot the whole Lisp / ML heritage - most FP stuff -, and of
> course Simula and Smalltalk.

http://i.imgur.com/1gF1j.jpg


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 11:57:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:57:17 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hks0hi$7t0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002090727t23ccd46fy9289ed56d93ce929@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hks0hi$7t0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090857r2ff4ee51k899c5451e552cf25@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>
> [several paragraphs-worth of bothering further]
>
> So you didn't believe me when I said
>
> > Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
> > word,' said Humpty ..."
>

It was early, I was barely awake. That paragraph was originally the last
one.

Apparently some extra bother had to work itself out. I'm pretty sure I got
the last of it squeezed out.

I swear I /wanted/ to believe you.

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:06:42 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:06:42 -0800
Subject: Python 3: Plist as OrderedDict
In-Reply-To: <663dd630-f029-4b6f-909e-52ce79adbbd1@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <8042fe2c-c014-491f-984c-5a5f7d9644b9@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com>
	<4576331d-fb60-499e-aff6-f61a4c0fc01e@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<663dd630-f029-4b6f-909e-52ce79adbbd1@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090906ya5c10c3rb57c4eb19203f00@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> wrote:

> To extract the list I am saying this:
>
> ordered=plistlib.readPlist(path)
> print(list(ordered))  # only a list of keys
> print(ordered[list(ordered)[0]])
>
> However this seems too laborious. is there an easier way?
>

I'm not familiar with plistlib or what you're trying to do-- it'd help if
you provided the output from those print's, as I don't have a plist on hand
which I can use to test it out and see what you're seeing.

But, is "ordered.keys()" or "ordered.items()" what you're trying to get? Or,
ordered[ordered.keys()[0]] to get the first one? Or "for key in ordered:
print(ordered[key])" which will get the keys in order and print the values
according to that order?

Basically, I'm not sure what you're actually trying to do.

--S
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From half.italian at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:09:50 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:09:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f6a3ecf4-427e-45c4-90ab-332e2aff7874@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 6:52?am, T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 2:25?pm, David Bolen <db3l.... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > T <misceveryth... at gmail.com> writes:
> > > I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> > > account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> > > program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> > > I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> > > an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> > > service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> > > trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> > > would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!
>
> > The LocalSystem account is not, if I recall correctly, permitted to
> > access the network.
>
> > You'll have to install the service to run under some other account that
> > has appropriate access to the network.
>
> > -- David
>
> The more testing I do, I think you may be right..I was able to get it
> to work under a local admin account, and it worked under debug mode
> (which would also have been running as this user). ?I'm a bit
> surprised though - I was under the assumption that LocalSystem had
> rights to access the network?

You really need a way to see the error you are getting.  If you can't
get it to show you the error in the shell, set up some logging to a
file, and find the error that way.  I think the user can access the
network just fine, but that maybe plink.exe is not in his path or some
such thing.

Find the error!


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:14:26 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:14:26 -0800
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
In-Reply-To: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002090914r68310597se5541213279252fd@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>wrote:

> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
> MS-bashing here]
>
> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>
> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
> that time.clock() works right?


The only time I ever had to do that, I just grabbed:
http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk/Tools/pybench/systimes.py

HTH,
--S
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  9 12:25:48 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:25:48 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkqqnd$hbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7tb5hlF3nmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<hkpngf$2nk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2199.1265689553.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkqqnd$hbr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hks5qn$umd$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/9/2010 12:12 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> As far as the language spec is concerned the argument passing mechanism
> seems to me to be identical to assignments, not just "very much like".

Except for the cross-namespace nature of the assignment, yes. Glad you 
agree.

> Your phrase "or objects derived therefrom" seems to imply that immutable
> objects can be copied

No. Given

def f(*args, **kwds): print(args, kwds)

the objects bound to args and kwds are a tuple and dict *derived* from 
(that collect together) the objects passed.

Terry Jan Reedy



From thomasharrisonnelson at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:39:27 2010
From: thomasharrisonnelson at gmail.com (Thomas Nelson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:39:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mac install
Message-ID: <a73f2cb2-d748-4ddb-a84a-ff2e6d14149f@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I downloaded the 3.1.1 dmg from http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.1.1/
but when I run it I get the error "The folowing install step failed:
run postflight script for python documentation."  The bugs list has
this bug at http://bugs.python.org/issue6934 but it's described as
fixed.  Is it only fixed for the source version?  Where should I go to
install?

Thanks,
Tom


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb  9 12:40:03 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Feb 2010 09:40:03 -0800
Subject: pyclutter anyone?
References: <4B6BD072.4080006@gmail.com>
	<mailman.1985.1265390331.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hks6lj$81u$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1985.1265390331.28905.python-list at python.org>,
donn  <donn.ingle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>No one uses pyClutter?

Never heard of it before.

>I have some code, it does not work, but maybe this will start to help 
>solve the problem:

You need to provide some more detail than "does not work".  Perhaps this
will help:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb  9 12:47:39 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Feb 2010 09:47:39 -0800
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2238.1265733013.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hks73r$o2t$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2238.1265733013.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Robert Kern  <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>>
>>> obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
>>> algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
>>> used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
>>> may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used
>>> where strong encryption is required.
>>
>> Great, these packages are badly needed!
>>
>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>> think.
>
>Why?

You missed the white-on-white smiley, I think.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 12:49:51 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:49:51 +0100
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B71A03F.8070803@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
>> http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html
>>
>> JM
>>     
>
> each time a handler is spawned is it client specific? in other words
> when two clients send something to the server do handlers spawn for
> each of them or does everything just go into a single handler?
>   
docstring of the example:

    """
    The RequestHandler class for our server.

    It is instantiated once per connection to the server, and must
    override the handle() method to implement communication to the
    client.
    """

If you want data persistant over connections, store them in your handler 
class.

class MyTCPHandler(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    cnxNumber = 0
    def handle(self):
        # self.request is the TCP socket connected to the client
        self.data = self.request.recv(1024).strip()
        # just send back the same data, but upper-cased
        self.request.send(self.data.upper())
        cnxNumber +=1  
	print "handling connection N?%s" % cnxNumber

JM


From ricaraoz at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:00:36 2010
From: ricaraoz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_Ar=E1oz?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:00:36 -0300
Subject: Your beloved python features
In-Reply-To: <iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<iLKan.80833$BV.8137@newsfe07.iad>
Message-ID: <4B71A2C4.1060507@gmail.com>

Bruce C. Baker wrote:
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message 
> news:mailman.1929.1265328905.28905.python-list at python.org...
>   
>> Iterators, and in particular, generators.
>> A killer feature.
>>
>> Terry Jan Reedy
>>
>>     
>
> Neither unique to Python.
>
> And then're the other killer "features" superfluous ":"s and rigid 
> formatting! 
>   

Hmmmm.... Let's see..... nope, I could not find the "unique" word
neither in the subject or in the cited text.
I've had a strange feeling last weeks.
Two possible explanations come to mind :
        a) The list is under a concerted troll attack.
        b) Idiocy is contagious.

I wonder which...

P.S. : will the indentation of the choices be noticed? Shouldn't I put
them within braces?

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From salman.haq at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:02:45 2010
From: salman.haq at gmail.com (slmnhq)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:02:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Incorrect 'Host' header when using urllib2 to access a server by its 
	IPv6 link-local address
Message-ID: <6f17b819-0420-41d2-8875-f087d8c392d8@c28g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

I have a snippet of Python code that makes an HTTP GET request to an
Apache web server (v 2.2.3) using urllib2. The server responds with an
HTTP 400 error presumably because of a malformed 'Host' header.

The snippet is quite simple: it creates a url based on IPv6 string
literal syntax, then creates a Request object and calls urlopen.

def via_urllib2 (addr="fe80::207:b8ff:fedc:636b", scope_id="eth4"):
    host = "[%s%%%s]:80" % (addr, scope_id) # "[fe80::207:b8ff:fedc:
636b%eth4]"
    url = "http://"+host+"/system/status/"
    req = urllib2.Request(url)
    f = urllib2.urlopen(req)
    print f.read()

The urlopen() throws: HTTPError: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request

The Apache error_log reports "Client sent malformed Host header".

Googling for "apache Client sent malformed Host header ipv6" I came
across the following bug:

https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=35122

The problem is that Apache does not handle the scope id in the host
header field very well and reports a 400 error. So I tried to override
that field by creating my own header in the above snippet:

   ...
   req.add_header('Host', "["+urllib.quote(addr)+"]")
   ...

Now the header is simply 'Host: [fe80::207:b8ff:fedc:636b]" (notice
the lack of "%eth4"). However, this still results in the same error.

I know this is not a problem with urllib2 per say, but I'm posting
here in the hope that some Python coder may be knowledgeable enough
about HTTP and IPv6 that they might be able to provide an answer.

Thank you,

Salman


From python at rcn.com  Tue Feb  9 13:03:25 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:03:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
References: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6f5a299b-66a9-43ae-acf7-6d6450f7f240@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 12:54?am, George Sakkis <george.sak... at gmail.com> wrote:
> So I'm wondering if there is a consensus on when it's better to (hard)
> patch, monkey patch or just try to work around a third party package
> that doesn't do exactly what one would like. Does it have mainly to do
> with the reason for the patch (e.g. fixing a bug, modifying behavior,
> adding missing feature), the given package (size, complexity,
> maturity, developer responsiveness), something else or there are no
> general rules and one should decide on a case-by-case basis ?

I agree that practically beats purity here.  Python is a consenting
adults language that makes monkey patching possible.  It provides
a direct way to compensate for someone failing to put hooks in
their API.

The risk of monkey patching is that if other modules use the patched
module, they have no way of knowing that the behavior is changed.
IOW, monkey patching is a fragile technique for a large project.


Raymond



From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:03:45 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:03:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

thanks JM,

at this point i switched over to this scheme and now I'm getting an
error durring instantiation of the server:
Server.py:
from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
from ServerNegotiator import ServerNegotiator
from sharedComs import *

f = open("hostid")
tup = stringToTuple(f.readline()[0:-1])
HostID = f.readline()[0:-1]
f.close()

key = RSA.construct((long(tup[0]),long(tup[1]), long(tup[2]),
long(tup[3]),
                     long(tup[4]),long(tup[5])))
host = "localhost"
port = 8005

servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
servernegotiator.start()


ServerNegotiatior.py lines 185 - end
class ServerNegotiator:
    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
        negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
        self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)

    def start(self):
        self.server.serve_forever()





Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Server.py", line 16, in <module>
    servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
  File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
ServerNegotiator.py", line 188, in __init__
    self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 400, in __init__
    self.server_bind()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 411, in server_bind
    self.socket.bind(self.server_address)
  File "<string>", line 1, in bind
TypeError: an integer is required



From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:09:53 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pycrypto RSA Issue
Message-ID: <36189d1d-b33f-49bc-9857-74611e665aed@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to encrypt public data along with another tuple and then
decrypt it after sending. RSA is needed for negotiation of keys for
AES. But I just get garbage after I decrypt it. This is what I'm
attempting to do:

from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
from Crypto import Random

gkey = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
string = str((gkey.publickey().__getstate__(),
              (333,444)))
print string
print
data = gkey.encrypt(string,"")
print "data:",data
print
print "decrypt"
print "decrypt,", gkey.decrypt(data)
print "done"

All I get are junk values when printing the decrypted value.


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:11:17 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:11:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <72bd2afa-2a58-489d-819a-966a92096d1d@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 9 f?v, 11:01, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Klaus Neuner, 09.02.2010 10:04:
>
> > my program is supposed to parse files that I have created myself and that
> > are on my laptop. It is not supposed to interact with anybody else
> > than me.
>
> Famous last words.
>
> Stefan

I knew it.

Olivier


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 13:23:21 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:23:21 +0100
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
In-Reply-To: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B71A819.8050509@sequans.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>
>    start = time.clock()
>    [stuff being timed]
>    stop  = time.clock()
>
>    delta = stop-start
>
>
> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
> MS-bashing here]
>
> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>
> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
> that time.clock() works right?
>
>   

Did you try with the datetime module ?

import datetime
t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
t1.microseconds
Out[4]: 644114

JM



From pheensoowt at farifluset.mailexpire.com  Tue Feb  9 13:27:36 2010
From: pheensoowt at farifluset.mailexpire.com (Legrandin)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 18:27:36 GMT
Subject: Pycrypto RSA Issue
References: <36189d1d-b33f-49bc-9857-74611e665aed@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b71a918$0$14115$703f8584@textnews.kpn.nl>


> gkey = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
> string = str((gkey.publickey().__getstate__(),(333,444)))

You are encrypting with RSA a piece of data which is way
larger than the key size (48 bytes).



From george.trojan at noaa.gov  Tue Feb  9 13:41:45 2010
From: george.trojan at noaa.gov (George Trojan)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:41:45 +0000
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hksa99$p0$1@news.nems.noaa.gov>

Argument mismatch?

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> 
> servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> 
> class ServerNegotiator:
>     def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
> 


From Martin.Drautzburg at web.de  Tue Feb  9 13:47:43 2010
From: Martin.Drautzburg at web.de (Martin Drautzburg)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:47:43 +0100
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8281270.AG5xCW3FSB@beaureve.gmx.net>

Carl Banks wrote:


> You can have __add__ return a closure for the first addition, then
> perform the operation on the second one.  Example (untested):
> 
> class Closure(object):
>     def __init__(self,t1,t2):
>         self.t1 = t1
>         self.t2 = t2
>     def __add__(self,t3):
>         # whole operation peformed here
>         return self.t1 + self.t2 + t3
> 
> class MySpecialInt(int):
>     def __add__(self,other):
>         return Closure(self,other)
> 
> 
> I wouldn't recommend it.  Just use a function call with three
> arguments.

That's way cool. 

<Flash of insight> Of course! - CURRYING!! If you can return closures
you can do everything with just single-parameter functions.</Flash of
insight>

BTW I am not really trying to add three objects, I wanted a third object
which controls the way the addition is done. Sort of like "/" and "//"
which are two different ways of doing division.

Anyways: thanks a lot.





From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:51:09 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mac install
References: <a73f2cb2-d748-4ddb-a84a-ff2e6d14149f@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <618b5d95-252c-425c-bd18-b38e3bf5e7fb@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hello. The answer is, I don't know. But I originally replaced my
existing Python with 3.1.1. I then had to backtrack because some stuff
broke. Nothing in the OS, but adapting every Python script on my HD
was not what I wanted to do.

So my Py3 executable is at:
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/bin/python3.1
then symlink to that in folder:
/usr/local/bin

using command:
sudo ln -s /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/bin/
python3.1 /usr/local/bin/python3.1

so that saying:
ls /usr/local/bin

shows the link to the Py3 folder as:
python3.1 -> /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/bin/
python3.1

Now your existing scripts still work on Py 2.6. New scripts invoke Py3
like this:
#!/usr/local/bin/python3.1

For Terminal sessions, an alias in your bash_profile puts you in Py3
by default without nasty surprises:
alias python=/usr/local/bin/python3.1

You can also create a file at:
/Library/Python/3.1/site-packages/sitecustomize.py

with a configuration that runs at loadtime, although some things seem
to fail. But all in all this system has worked well for me (including
CGI) and should be easy to go mainstream once Apple goes to Py3.

-- Gnarlie



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 13:51:31 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:51:31 +0100
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B71AEB3.3030908@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> thanks JM,
>
> at this point i switched over to this scheme and now I'm getting an
> error durring instantiation of the server:
> Server.py:
> from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
> from ServerNegotiator import ServerNegotiator
> from sharedComs import *
>
> f = open("hostid")
> tup = stringToTuple(f.readline()[0:-1])
> HostID = f.readline()[0:-1]
> f.close()
>
> key = RSA.construct((long(tup[0]),long(tup[1]), long(tup[2]),
> long(tup[3]),
>                      long(tup[4]),long(tup[5])))
> host = "localhost"
> port = 8005
>
> servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> servernegotiator.start()
>
>
> ServerNegotiatior.py lines 185 - end
> class ServerNegotiator:
>     def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
>         negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
>         self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
>
>     def start(self):
>         self.server.serve_forever()
>
>
>
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "Server.py", line 16, in <module>
>     servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
>   File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> ServerNegotiator.py", line 188, in __init__
>     self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 400, in __init__
>     self.server_bind()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 411, in server_bind
>     self.socket.bind(self.server_address)
>   File "<string>", line 1, in bind
> TypeError: an integer is required
>
>   

servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
class ServerNegotiator:
    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):


you swapped port & hostID in your call

JM



From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 13:58:19 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:58:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Programing family
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr> 
	<7xaavi5owh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <ee6b574a-5ae5-40ed-8e4c-8dc048dd3bd6@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 9:56?am, Paul Rubin wrote:

> http://i.imgur.com/1gF1j.jpg

Very funny, except where is Python and Forth?

-- Gnarlie


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 14:04:01 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 19:04:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hksbj1$i0d$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>
>>    start = time.clock()
>>    [stuff being timed]
>>    stop  = time.clock()
>>
>>    delta = stop-start
>>
>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>> MS-bashing here]
>>
>> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
>> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>>
>> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
>> that time.clock() works right?
>>
>>   
>
> Did you try with the datetime module ?

No.  What mechanism does it use to get the current date/time?

> import datetime
> t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
> t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
> t1.microseconds
> Out[4]: 644114

That looks very broken to me.  I need to measure stuff in the
1-20ms range, and the smallest value you can measure using the
method above appears to be 640ms.  Thats almost 2/3 of a second.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! If our behavior is
                                  at               strict, we do not need fun!
                               visi.com            


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 14:13:46 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:13:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2246.1265741501.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fc5cee67-cf5d-4d59-8e80-66156e479253@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 1:51?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Jordan Apgar wrote:
> > thanks JM,
>
> > at this point i switched over to this scheme and now I'm getting an
> > error durring instantiation of the server:
> > Server.py:
> > from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
> > from ServerNegotiator import ServerNegotiator
> > from sharedComs import *
>
> > f = open("hostid")
> > tup = stringToTuple(f.readline()[0:-1])
> > HostID = f.readline()[0:-1]
> > f.close()
>
> > key = RSA.construct((long(tup[0]),long(tup[1]), long(tup[2]),
> > long(tup[3]),
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long(tup[4]),long(tup[5])))
> > host = "localhost"
> > port = 8005
>
> > servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> > servernegotiator.start()
>
> > ServerNegotiatior.py lines 185 - end
> > class ServerNegotiator:
> > ? ? def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
> > ? ? ? ? negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
> > ? ? ? ? self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
>
> > ? ? def start(self):
> > ? ? ? ? self.server.serve_forever()
>
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "Server.py", line 16, in <module>
> > ? ? servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> > ? File "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/communication/
> > ServerNegotiator.py", line 188, in __init__
> > ? ? self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)
> > ? File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 400, in __init__
> > ? ? self.server_bind()
> > ? File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 411, in server_bind
> > ? ? self.socket.bind(self.server_address)
> > ? File "<string>", line 1, in bind
> > TypeError: an integer is required
>
> servernegotiator = ServerNegotiator(host,HostID, port, key)
> class ServerNegotiator:
> ? ? def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
>
> you swapped port & hostID in your call
>
> JM

tThanks guys it's working now... feel a little stupid though.


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 14:14:27 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:14:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pycrypto RSA Issue
References: <36189d1d-b33f-49bc-9857-74611e665aed@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b71a918$0$14115$703f8584@textnews.kpn.nl>
Message-ID: <6a1bbf69-3cfc-4d2b-b329-939ca6d2d553@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 1:27?pm, Legrandin <pheenso... at farifluset.mailexpire.com>
wrote:
> > gkey = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
> > string = str((gkey.publickey().__getstate__(),(333,444)))
>
> You are encrypting with RSA a piece of data which is way
> larger than the key size (48 bytes).

ah thanks Legrandin


From db3l.net at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 14:18:50 2010
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:18:50 -0500
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>

T <misceverything at gmail.com> writes:

> The more testing I do, I think you may be right..I was able to get it
> to work under a local admin account, and it worked under debug mode
> (which would also have been running as this user).  I'm a bit
> surprised though - I was under the assumption that LocalSystem had
> rights to access the network?

Not from my past experience - the system account (LocalSystem for
services) can be surprising, in that it's pretty much unlimited access
to all local resources, but severely limited in a handful of cases,
one of which is any attempt to access the network.  I can't recall for
sure if it's an absolute block, or if in some cases you can configure
around it (e.g., it might use a null session for remote shares which
can be enabled through the registry on the target machine).  I've
basically stuck "LocalSystem = no network" in my head from past
experience.

So you can either install your service to run under your existing
account, or create an account specifically for running your service,
granting that account just the rights it needs.

-- David








From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 14:59:18 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:59:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
References: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d89d3051-954d-4240-a52e-1e706c3c8023@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 3:54?am, George Sakkis <george.sak... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was talking to a colleague about one rather unexpected/undesired
> (though not buggy) behavior of some package we use. Although there is
> an easy fix (or at least workaround) on our end without any apparent
> side effect, he strongly suggested extending the relevant code by hard
> patching it and posting the patch upstream, hopefully to be accepted
> at some point in the future. In fact we maintain patches against
> specific versions of several packages that are applied automatically
> on each new build. The main argument is that this is the right thing
> to do, as opposed to an "ugly" workaround or a fragile monkey patch.
> On the other hand, I favor practicality over purity and my general
> rule of thumb is that "no patch" > "monkey patch" > "hard patch", at
> least for anything less than a (critical) bug fix.

I'd monkey patch for the meantime, but send a hard patch in the hopes
of shifting the maintenance burden to someone else.  (Plus maybe help
out the upstream project and other people, I guess)


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 15:02:12 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:02:12 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Duncan Booth:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> 
>> A copyable reference is a pointer. That is, a "pointer", in e.g. the
>> Java sense, 
>>   and in the general language independent sense, means a copyable
>>   reference  -- as illustrated e.g. in the Stanford computer science
>>   101 course page I 
>> referred you to earlier, with C versus Java pointers illustrated in
>> the concrete. 
> 
> The fact that C style pointers are used internally is an detail of the 
> CPython implementation.

Your statement seems pretty irrelevant to anything.

It's almost hilarious, quoting a single paragraph about how irrelevant the C 
pointer is, and responding with something like that.

Do you understand that you're restating (in the form of exemplifying) what 
you're quoting?


> In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location (and 
> their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the objects 
> themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed address. Try 
> comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers and you'll cause a 
> lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the id() value is in some way 
> related to an address.

Did you /read/ what you quoted?


> Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's nothing 
> in the Python specification which prevents a Python implementation doing 
> the same for small integers, in fact I believe it has been tried but wasn't 
> found to improve performance.

All theree of your points about Python are wrong; I don't know about the Ruby point.

First, the current Python language specification formally prevents the 
optimization you mention, because there's no support for binding to do anything 
but direct binding leaving object identities unchanged.

But in practice that's no big deal though: I can't imagine any code relying on 
identities of completely immutable objects.

Second, even the variant that was tried improved performance.

But it would reportedly have wreaked havoc with imperfect C code.

Third, the optimization doesn't do away with pointers. If it did then it would 
transform the language completely. The user's view is still one where names 
denote pointers.


> The terminology of 'objects', 'names', 'references' describes an abstract 
> machine. The Python runtime can implement it in any way it chooses so long 
> as those semantics are preserved. One implementation involves 'pointers',

It seems that you're thinking of C pointers.

That's pretty dumb since

    (1) it doesn't make sense, and

    (2) it has been mentioned in almost every article in this thread, including
        my first, and including the single paragraph that *you quoted above*,
        which was only about that, that

we're not talking about C pointers  here.

Python names denote pointers by definition (of pointer).


> but that word implies other baggage which is not a required part of the 
> model.

The word itself doesn't imply other baggage, no.

It might help to *read* what you're quoting, try to follow references, so on.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb  9 15:02:50 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:02:50 -0800
Subject: Tangling with mathplotlib(MPL)  on XP and Win7 -- show() stopper
In-Reply-To: <hkqm7p$hol$2@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hkqm7p$hol$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hksf1b$to4$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Solved. I need to get into the interactive mode. Never heard of it until 
this morning.



From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 15:04:08 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:08 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Stephen Hansen:
> [...]
>>> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it
>>> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org
>>> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem
>>> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>>
>>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
>> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>>
> Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?

I thought the answer could help.

You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.

That's the difference between us.


Cheers,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 15:39:05 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:39:05 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hksh8i$bj4$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Stephen Hansen:
>> [...]
>>>> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>>>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it
>>>> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org
>>>> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem
>>>> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>>>
>>>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
>>> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>>>
>> Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
> 
> I thought the answer could help.
> 
> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
> 
> That's the difference between us.
> 
Well, the way I see it, you assumed you knew better than Stephen, and
insisted on proposing a solution to a problem that he clearly stated he
had no interest in. I'm not quite sure, given that, what the point of
the advice was.

However, my question was genuine, based on your observed behavior.  I
agree I might have phrased it more politely, but I do find your
self-assurance somewhat irritating.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 15:39:44 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:39:44 -0500
Subject: errno 107 socket.recv issue
In-Reply-To: <fc5cee67-cf5d-4d59-8e80-66156e479253@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <894c03c7-a4e6-4baf-a0c9-dc243977264a@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2223.1265727411.28905.python-list@python.org>	<848c2009-f4bd-435c-afdb-d0dfeef47b0f@b35g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2230.1265730530.28905.python-list@python.org>	<6a64449e-ce78-43e7-a5bd-6a299fcff4e6@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2244.1265737801.28905.python-list@python.org>	<9943e9c3-cb13-4fea-af00-9e6b26851b37@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2246.1265741501.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<fc5cee67-cf5d-4d59-8e80-66156e479253@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hksh9p$bj4$2@ger.gmane.org>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> On Feb 9, 1:51 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
[...]
>> you swapped port & hostID in your call
>>
>> JM
> 
> tThanks guys it's working now... feel a little stupid though.

Cool!

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From quindennis at grandecom.net  Tue Feb  9 16:00:47 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:00:47 -0600
Subject: New to Python
Message-ID: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

s = f.readline()
if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
if 'mystring' in s:
    print 'processing'

this generates output:
not found
processing

so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.

This is using IronPython


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 16:08:27 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:08:27 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>>> * Stephen Hansen:
>>> [...]
>>>>> I've heard that before, and have no idea why, nor any real interest in
>>>>> solving it: I don't want to read cpl via Usenet, and prefer to read it
>>>>> as a mailing list. Somewhere between Gmail->python.org->python.org
>>>>> <http://python.org>'s usenet server->the world, some people don't seem
>>>>> to get my posts. Yet it shows up on some news servers, not others.
>>>>>
>>>>> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it.
>>>> Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>>>>
>>> Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
>> I thought the answer could help.
>>
>> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
>>
>> That's the difference between us.
>>
> Well, the way I see it, you assumed you knew better than Stephen, and
> insisted on proposing a solution to a problem that he clearly stated he
> had no interest in.

You're going into motivations, that it seems to me that you're projecting, 
saying that any helpful suggestion mean that one thinks one knows better and 
implies a desire to demonstrate imagined superiority.

You're trying to portray a helping hand as a negative personal characteristic of 
the helper.

"the only reason that guy tries to help you is because he wishes to show how 
superior he (thinks he) is".

That's your style in a fair number of postings, and now here:

  * ad hominem attack,

  * projection (at least the way I read it), and

  * inject - noise - about - something - completely - irrelevant

Note that readers can easily guess about motivations for the last.


> I'm not quite sure, given that, what the point of the advice was.

There are many people who read just the Usenet group, e.g. via Google groups.

When you say you don't understand the point of the advice, you're saying that

   * those people don't matter, and that

   * it doesn't matter whether they can read Stephen Hansen's articles.

That's

   * slighting Stephen Hansen, and

   * showing off an extreme ego-centric view of the world,

sorry.


> However, my question was genuine, based on your observed behavior.  I
> agree I might have phrased it more politely, but I do find your
> self-assurance somewhat irritating.

Thanks. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 16:18:44 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:18:44 -0300
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 9)
References: <hkrtf6$37h$1@lairds.us>
	<c3716b15-6735-4308-8724-be8dff3661d1@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vphi2kx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:32:54 -0300, Marius Gedminas <mgedmin at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> The last three URLs are malformed:

Sorry... It happens even in the best of families :)
These are the right ones:

There is no module in the standard library to handle filesystem paths in  
an OO way - but why?
     http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f580fb3763208425/

A "History Channel" special: how the way a TAB key was interpreted changed  
over time
     http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/82d9181fcd31ffe4/

After a false start, finally we get our first "Is it Call-By-Value or  
Call-By-Reference?" thread of the year!
     http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fd36962c4970ac48/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 16:19:05 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:19:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksbj1$i0d$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hksjg9$o9b$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-02-09, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

>> Did you try with the datetime module ?
>
> No.  What mechanism does it use to get the current date/time?
>
>> import datetime
>> t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
>> t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
>> t1.microseconds
>> Out[4]: 644114
>
> That looks very broken to me.  I need to measure stuff in the
> 1-20ms range, and the smallest value you can measure using the
> method above appears to be 640ms.  Thats almost 2/3 of a second.

Duh.  It just occurred to me that was done interactively.  I'll
give the datetime module a try once I reboot my test machine
back into Windows.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Is this sexual
                                  at               intercourse yet??  Is it,
                               visi.com            huh, is it??


From db3l.net at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 16:25:24 2010
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:25:24 -0500
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <m2zl3i3xvf.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>

David Bolen <db3l.net at gmail.com> writes:

> Not from my past experience - the system account (LocalSystem for
> services) can be surprising, in that it's pretty much unlimited access
> to all local resources, but severely limited in a handful of cases,
> one of which is any attempt to access the network.  I can't recall for
> sure if it's an absolute block, or if in some cases you can configure
> around it (e.g., it might use a null session for remote shares which
> can be enabled through the registry on the target machine).  I've
> basically stuck "LocalSystem = no network" in my head from past
> experience.

Given it's been a few years, I decided to try some tests, and the
above is too simplistic.

The LocalSystem account runs without any local Windows credentials
(e.g., not like a logged in user), which has several consequences.
One is that you can't access any network resources that require such
credentials (like shares).  However, there's no sort of firewall
filtering or anything, so plain old TCP/IP connections are fine.
Unless, of course, the client being used also has other needs for
local Windows credentials, independent or as a pre-requisite to the
network operations.

So backing up a bit, the TCP/IP connection that plink is making is not
inherently disabled by running under LocalSystem, but it's certainly
possible that plink is trying to identify the user under which it is
operating to perhaps identify ssh keys or other local resources it
needs to operate.  You might be able to cover this with command line
options (e.g., plink supports "-i" to specify a key file to use), but
you'll also need to ensure that the file you are referencing is
readable by the LocalSystem account.

One of the other responders had a very good point about locating plink
in the first place too.  Services run beneath an environment that is
inherited from the service control manager process, and won't include
various settings that are applied to your user when logged in,
especially things like local path changes, and working directories.
Should you change the system path (via the environment settings),
you'll need to reboot for the service control manager to notice - I
don't think you can restart it without a reboot.

So it's generally safer to be very clear, and absolute when possible,
in a service for paths to external resources.

The prior advice of running the service as an identified user (e.g.,
with local credentials) is still good as it does remove most of these
issues since if you can run the script manually under that user you
know it'll work under service.  But it's not a hard requirement.

If your script is dying such that a top level exception is being
raised you should be able to find it in the application event log.  So
that might give further information on what about the different
environment is problematic.

You can also use the win32traceutil module to help with grabbing debug
output on the fly.  Import the module in your service, which will
implicitly redirect stdout/stderr to a trace buffer.  Run the same
win32traceutil module from the command line in another window.  Then
start the service.  Any stdout/stderr will be reflected in the other
window.  Can't catch everything (suppressed exceptions, or I/O that
doesn't flow through the script's stdout/stderr), but again might help
point in the right direction.

-- David


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  9 16:41:34 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:41:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b35471ed-00a9-4334-811f-8933919c9050@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 1:51?am, waku <w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
> 'stupid', 'wrong', 'deficient', 'terrible', ... ?you're using strong
> words instead of concrete arguments, it might intimidate your
> opponents, but is hardly helpful in a fair discussion.
>

In today's day and age, I don't know how a text editor which cannot do
simple indentation can be considered anything but "stupid", "wrong",
"deficient", and "terrible". There is simply no excuse for this kind
of behavior on the part of the text editor.

I mean, how long has vi had the auto indent feature? How many decades
has emacs supported the same? This isn't new technology, or difficult
technology to implement. It's not even non-standard anymore. Heck, far
more advanced features, such as syntax highlighting, are standard in
all text editors.

Your problem is you're using something like Windows Notepad to edit
your code. Windows Notepad is a terrible tool for writing anything,
let alone writing code. Why in the world would any programming
language adapt itself to the mental deficiencies of Windows Notepad? I
mean, if you were an artist, would you use MS Paint to do anything
serious? If you did, would you complain that the art world has a
problem because they don't accept your paintings?

I strongly suggest you download one of the *hundreds* of free text
editors available for the Windows platform that give you the
indentation features you so sorely lack. I suggest ViM, though it has
a steep learning curve.


From hklasky at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 16:42:39 2010
From: hklasky at gmail.com (seth)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:42:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: shelve.open generates (22, 'Invalid argument')  Os X 10.5 with Python 
	2.5
Message-ID: <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

There is something you could possibly help me with.

We have a code that creates a simple Python shelve database. We are
able to serialize objects and store them in the dbm file. This seem to
work the same on Windows XP Python 2.5, Ubuntu 9.1 with Python 2.6,
but on Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5 the database filename is changed by
the operating system by attaching the .db extension to it. Does an one
know why is that?

What is worse, at the time of reading it  we get the  error below the
extracted code, on Os X 10.5:

        if os.path.exists( tarname )and tarfile.is_tarfile( tarname ):
            try:
                datastore_tarfile=tarfile.open( tarname, 'r:gz' )
                print "Successfully opened the tarball: %s"%tarname
                members=datastore_tarfile.getnames()
                for dbmFile in members:
                    datastore_tarfile.extract( dbmFile )
                    print "Extracting Realizations File: %s"%dbmFile

                realizations=shelve.open( dbmFile, 'c', 2, writeback =
False )

Successfully opened the tarball: datastore.tar.gz
Extracting Realizations File: realizations.dbm.db
<class 'bsddb.error'>
(22, 'Invalid argument')

This does not happen on Windows XP with Python 2.5.
Does anyone know what is happening on Os X?
Any comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you
very much in advance.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb  9 16:43:37 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:43:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PostgreSQL driver for Python applications that supports bytea 
	correctly?
References: <897cf085-0a29-4372-835d-1c9e23e346a5@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <690d8388-0f24-4461-89a1-cb34e3a082a9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 7:27?am, CyclingGuy <ericthecycl... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a PostgreSQL driver for Python that supports
> selecting and inserting bytea types?
>

Can you name some that don't?


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 16:45:38 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:45:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>
>>    start = time.clock()
>>    [stuff being timed]
>>    stop  = time.clock()
>>
>>    delta = stop-start
>>
>>
>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>> MS-bashing here]
>>
>> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
>> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>>
>> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
>> that time.clock() works right?

> Did you try with the datetime module ?
>
> import datetime
> t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
> t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
> t1.microseconds
> Out[4]: 644114

Doesn't work.  datetime.datetime.now has granularity of
15-16ms.

Intervals much less that that often come back with a delta of
0.  A delay of 20ms produces a delta of either 15-16ms or
31-32ms

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm receiving a coded
                                  at               message from EUBIE BLAKE!!
                               visi.com            


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 16:50:53 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:50:53 -0300
Subject: Programing family
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vqy3tzx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:39:58 -0300, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> I have thought funny things
> If we think all languages are like a family
> I could draft them like this (Python base)

Have a look at:
http://oreilly.com/news/languageposter_0504.html

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb  9 17:00:50 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:00:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hkslui$sq5$2@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-02-09, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>>
>>>    start = time.clock()
>>>    [stuff being timed]
>>>    stop  = time.clock()
>>>
>>>    delta = stop-start
>>>
>>>
>>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>>> MS-bashing here]
>>>
>>> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
>>> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>>>
>>> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
>>> that time.clock() works right?
>
>> Did you try with the datetime module ?
>>
>> import datetime
>> t0 = datetime.datetime.now()
>> t1 = t0 - datetime.datetime.now()
>> t1.microseconds
>> Out[4]: 644114
>
> Doesn't work.  datetime.datetime.now has granularity of
> 15-16ms.

time.time() exhibits the same behavior, so I assume that
datetime.datetime.new() ends up making the same libc/system
call as time.time().  From what I can grok of the datetime
module source code, it looks like it's calling gettimeofday().

I can't find any real documentation on the granularity of Win32
gettimeofday() other than a blog post that claims it is 10ms
(which doesn't agree with what my tests show).

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I feel better about
                                  at               world problems now!
                               visi.com            


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:06:56 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:06:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Problem Regarding Queue
Message-ID: <80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Could some one please tell what is wrong with this code. I am trying
to use Queue in this program but i am getting error
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/user/NetBeansProjects/NewPythonProject2/src/
Pollard_rho.py", line 80, in <module>
    factor(n)
  File "/home/user/NetBeansProjects/NewPythonProject2/src/
Pollard_rho.py", line 59, in factor
    Q_1=Queue()
NameError: global name 'Queue' is not defined.
As i am new to python so kindly pardon me if  i sound stupid.
Here is the code
# To change this template, choose Tools | Templates
# and open the template in the editor.

__author__="Mukesh Tiwari"
__date__ ="$Feb 10, 2010 1:35:26 AM$"

import random
import sys
def gcd(a,b):
    while b:
        a,b=b,a%b
    return a

def rabin_miller(p):
	if(p<2):
		return False
	if(p!=2 and p%2==0):
		return False
	s=p-1
	while(s%2==0):
		s>>=1
	for i in xrange(10):
		a=random.randrange(p-1)+1
		temp=s
		mod=pow(a,temp,p)
		while(temp!=p-1 and mod!=1 and mod!=p-1):
			mod=(mod*mod)%p
			temp=temp*2
		if(mod!=p-1 and temp%2==0):
			return False
	return True

def pollard(n):
        if(n%2==0):
            return 2;
        x=random.randrange(2,1000000)
        c=random.randrange(2,1000000)
        y=x
        d=1
        while(d==1):
            x=(x*x+c)%n
            y=(y*y+c)%n
            y=(y*y+c)%n
            d=gcd(x-y,n)
            if(d==n):
                break;
        return d;
def factor(n):
    #if(rabin_miller(n)):
     #   print n
      #  return
    #d=pollard(n)
    #if(d!=n):
     #   factor(d)
      #  factor(n/d)
    #else:
     #   factor(n)

    Q_1=Queue()
    Q_2=Queue()
    Q_1.put(n)
    while(not Q_1.empty()):
        l=Q_1.get()
        if(rabin_miller(l)):
            Q_2.put(l)
            continue
        d=pollard(l)
        if(d==l):Q_1.put(l)
        else:
            Q_1.put(d)
            Q_1.put(l/d)
    while(not Q_2.empty()):
        print Q_2.get()



if __name__ == "__main__":
    while(True):
        n=input();
        factor(n)


From simon at brunningonline.net  Tue Feb  9 17:10:46 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:10:46 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>

On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>> think.
>
> Why?

I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From gordon at panix.com  Tue Feb  9 17:11:45 2010
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:11:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: New to Python
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <hksmj1$a5$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d at posted.grandecom> "Quin" <quindennis at grandecom.net> writes:

> s = f.readline()
> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
> if 'mystring' in s:
>     print 'processing'

> this generates output:
> not found
> processing

> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.

I got this output when f contained 'mystring':

  foundit
  processing

And this output when f did not contain 'mystring':

  notfound

I have no idea why it would have worked otherwise for you.  When you posted
your question, did you type the code by hand?  Perhaps you made a mistake.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:25:31 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:25:31 -0800
Subject: Problem Regarding Queue
In-Reply-To: <80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002091425p5ed2181bybe1e5d89e99a89c2@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 2:06 PM, mukesh tiwari
<mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com>wrote:

> Could some one please tell what is wrong with this code. I am trying
> to use Queue in this program but i am getting error
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/home/user/NetBeansProjects/NewPythonProject2/src/
> Pollard_rho.py", line 80, in <module>
>    factor(n)
>  File "/home/user/NetBeansProjects/NewPythonProject2/src/
> Pollard_rho.py", line 59, in factor
>    Q_1=Queue()
> NameError: global name 'Queue' is not defined.
>

That's because you haven't imported the Queue module.

You need to do:

    import Queue

Then call:

    Q_1 = Queue.Queue()

Alternately, you can do:

    from Queue import Queue

And instantiate the class the same way you previously were.

--S
-------------- next part --------------
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb  9 17:28:12 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:28:12 -0800
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
In-Reply-To: <d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<91770e62-2fef-45c9-9e4d-e64088058af1@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<7tceiuF94hU1@mid.individual.net>
	<d871b429-deff-4974-84f3-d5f19c6b9042@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002091428n167d2f5ew4393f7bab9a4a8d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Phlip <phlip2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Ah, now we get down to the root of the problem. Because Python is so
> stuck on the "one best way to do it" mentality, language bigotry
> prevented the Committee from picking from among several equally valid
> but non-best options. And after 20 years of growth, Python still has
> no Pathname class. What a mature community! C-:

Committee? I think you have us confused with C++...

*wink*,
Chris


From drobinow at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:42:57 2010
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:42:57 -0500
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f1002091442pa4ce024ueb5fa8326cf4b7e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Simon Brunning <simon at brunningonline.net> wrote:
> On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>>> think.
>>
>> Why?
>
> I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Simon B.
Can we please stop this?


From sridharr at activestate.com  Tue Feb  9 17:49:07 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:49:07 -0800
Subject: Possible? Python 2.6.x and PythonWin on 64-bit Windows 7
In-Reply-To: <5cb36cc2-fe75-4542-af70-b33400fd4dea@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <a46f9377-a06e-4af1-a23e-d53607ca62dc@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<5b6da8b6-f814-4779-b7cb-b02762e16f2c@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<5cb36cc2-fe75-4542-af70-b33400fd4dea@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <AC49051E-3596-41CC-B973-A749AAB57F59@activestate.com>


On 2010-02-07, at 5:02 PM, escalation746 wrote:

> Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps you've accidentally downloaded the wrong version of PythonWin?
> 
> Erk, yes, my bad.
> 
> Thanks for the quick help! Though I still wonder why the ActiveState
> build does not include this.

I just added support for PyWin32 in ActivePython 2.6 64-bit.

  http://twitter.com/sridhr/status/8874549314

I should be part of next release (2.6.4.11).

-srid


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:52:35 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:52:35 +0000
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
Message-ID: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>

Hi all,

Hi have a set of classes that represent mathematical objects which can
be represented as a string using a 'latex' method (after Knuth's famous
typesetting system).  As I want to be able to typeset some builtin types as
well, I have a generic function, latex(), as follows:

def latex(val):
    try:
        return val.latex()
    except AttributeError:
        if isinstance(val, (tuple, list)):
            return ", ".join(map(latex, val))
        elif isinstance(val, dict):
            return ", ".join(
                "%s=%s" % (latex(k), latex(v)) 
                for k, v in sorted(val.iteritems())
            )
        else:
            return str(val)

It's EAFP and I have used this for a while with no problem.  Recently I
added a new class for 'n choose r' objects, as follows:

class Choose(Expression):
   def __init__(self, n, r):
        self.subexprs = n, r
        self.n = n
        self.r = r
    def calc(self, ns=None, calc=calc):
        return choose(calc(self.n, ns), calc(self.r, ns))
    def latex(self):
        return "{%s \\choose %s}" % (latex(self.n), latex(self.k))

When I create a Choose object and try to get its latex representation,
this happens:

>>> c = Choose(5, 3)
>>> latex(c)
'<qmm.maths.expressions.Choose object at 0x17c92d0>'

This puzzled me for a bit: why is it not trying to use the latex()
method of the Choose object?  I read and reread the definition of the
latex() method for a while until I found that there was a typo.  Where
it says:

    latex(self.k)

it should say:

    latex(self.r)

Thus it triggers an AttributeError, which is exactly the kind of
exception that I am catching in the latex() function after trying
val.latex(). (Of course I could have caught this by calling c.latex()
directly but it's such a short method definition that I couldn't imagine
missing the typo!).

This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
detected had I LBYLed, i.e. instead of

    try:
        return val.latex()
    except AttributeError:
        ...

do

    if hasattr(val, 'latex'):
        return val.latex()
    else:
        ...


So was it wrong to say it's EAFP in this case?  Should I have known to
LBYL from the start?  How do you decide which one to use?  Up to now, I
thought it was more or less a matter of taste but now this makes me
think that at least LBYL is better than catching AttributeError.

Thanks for any guidance.

-- 
Arnaud


From mark0978 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:55:30 2010
From: mark0978 at gmail.com (Mark Jones)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:55:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for windows
Message-ID: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Python 2.6.4 is built, and I found a bdist_wininst project and
wininst-8 project.

How do I manage to build the msi for this thing?


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 18:09:23 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:09:23 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* David Robinow:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Simon Brunning <simon at brunningonline.net> wrote:
>> On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>>>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>>>> think.
>>> Why?
>> I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!
>>
> Can we please stop this?

I agree.

I haven't looked at the code but the functionality that's listed is useful, e.g. 
in a Usenet client, and it's fun to play around with for a beginner.

Also, for example, Christian Heimes wrote else-thread: ?Your work should be 
interesting for everybody who has read Simon Sing's "The Code Book: The Science 
of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum"? (and I for one have that book).


Cheers,

- Alf


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb  9 18:11:41 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:11:41 +1100
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <87k4umhumq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> As I want to be able to typeset some builtin types as well, I have a
> generic function, latex(), as follows:
>
> def latex(val):
>     try:
>         return val.latex()
>     except AttributeError:
[?]

> It's EAFP and I have used this for a while with no problem.
[?]

> I found that there was a typo. Where it says:
>
>     latex(self.k)
>
> it should say:
>
>     latex(self.r)
>
> Thus it triggers an AttributeError, which is exactly the kind of
> exception that I am catching in the latex() function after trying
> val.latex(). (Of course I could have caught this by calling c.latex()
> directly but it's such a short method definition that I couldn't
> imagine missing the typo!).
>
> This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
> detected had I LBYLed

The correct approach here is to reduce the operations being done in the
?try? suite to a minimum.

The fact that you're calling a function in the ?try? block obviously
opens you to the potential for an AttributeError from that function.
Since that's not what you intend to catch, you need to separate those
concerns.

def latex(val):
    def make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method():
        result = transmogrify(val)
        return result

    try:
        typeset_func = val.latex
    except AttributeError:
        typeset_func = make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method

    result = typeset_func()
    return result

-- 
 \           ?Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in |
  `\                                               prayer.? ?Anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de  Tue Feb  9 18:22:50 2010
From: helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de (Malte Helmert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:22:50 +0100
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
In-Reply-To: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hksqo9$f5r$1@ger.gmane.org>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
> detected had I LBYLed, i.e. instead of
> 
>     try:
>         return val.latex()
>     except AttributeError:
>         ...
> 
> do
> 
>     if hasattr(val, 'latex'):
>         return val.latex()
>     else:
>         ...
> 
> 
> So was it wrong to say it's EAFP in this case?

I would say that it's not really the EAFP concept that is problematic
here, but rather that the try block encompasses more code than it
should. Generally try blocks should be as narrow as possible, i.e., they
should contain only the part where you really want to catch a potential
failure.

"return val.latex()" does two separate things that might fail: the
lookup of val.latex, and the actual method call. If I understood you
correctly, you only want to catch the AttributeError in the "val.latex"
lookup here, and hence I'd say the "correct" application of EAFP here
would be something like:

try:
    foo = val.latex
except AttributeError:
    ...
else:
    return foo()

Whether that's any better than LBYL in this particular case is of course
debatable -- one nice thing compared to your LBYL version is that it
doesn't look up val.latex twice upon success. But you could also get
that via the LBYLish:

latex_method = getattr(val, "latex")
if latex_method:
    return latex_method()
...

Malte



From helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de  Tue Feb  9 18:27:10 2010
From: helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de (Malte Helmert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:27:10 +0100
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
In-Reply-To: <87k4umhumq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com> <87k4umhumq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hksr0c$fqj$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ben Finney wrote:

> def latex(val):
>     def make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method():
>         result = transmogrify(val)
>         return result
>
>     try:
>         typeset_func = val.latex
>     except AttributeError:
>         typeset_func = make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method
>
>     result = typeset_func()
>     return result

In this particular case, where in the case of an AttributeError you want
to use a fallback callable with the same signature as the bound method
you get in case of success, I'd say getattr with a default is the nicest
approach:

def latex(val):
    def make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method():
        result = transmogrify(val)
        return result
    return getattr(val, "latex",
                   make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method)()


Doesn't work as nicely if you don't have
make_result_in_the_absence_of_a_latex_method's functionality bundled
into a suitable function already, though.

Malte



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 18:27:13 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:27:13 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>

On 10-02-2010 00:09, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * David Robinow:
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Simon Brunning 
>> <simon at brunningonline.net> wrote:
>>> On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>>>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>>>>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>>>>> think.
>>>> Why?
>>> I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!
>>>
>> Can we please stop this?
>
> I agree.
>
sorry I don't,
unless Python is only meant for the very well educated people in encryption.

> I haven't looked at the code but the functionality that's listed is 
> useful, e.g. in a Usenet client, and it's fun to play around with for 
> a beginner.
I neither did look at the code,
but as a beginner with just 3 years of experience in Python,
I've tried several scrambling libs, for a quick and dirty use.
All were much too difficult, so I made my own xor-something.
Coming from Delphi, a scrambling lib is working is less than 10 minutes, 
without the need of any knowledge of encryption.
I prefer Python over Delphi, but some things are made very complex in 
Python.

cheers,
Stef
>
> Also, for example, Christian Heimes wrote else-thread: ?Your work 
> should be interesting for everybody who has read Simon Sing's "The 
> Code Book: The Science of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum"? (and 
> I for one have that book).
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 18:31:32 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 23:31:32 GMT
Subject: Programing family
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <00fb7592$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:49:21 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

> On Feb 8, 2010, at 8:39 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have thought funny things
>>> If we think all languages are like a family
> 
> Then it would be a very incestuous family fore sure.
> 
>>> I could draft them like this (Python base)
>>>
>>> C is Python's Mom
>>> C++ : Dad
> 
> Not that much C++ in Python, IMHO. If that's for the OO part, then the
> closer to Python's object model I can think of is javascript.

I thought that Javascript didn't even have inheritance until recently? 
Like in the last year?



> Historically, Python comes from ABC, which itself comes from SETL.
> 
>>> Pascal/Assembly : Grandparents
> 
> Assembly ? What about binary machine code then ?-)


I'd say assembly is more like the distant answer, back when we still had 
tails and lived in trees and worried about being eaten by eagles.


>>> C#   : Uncle
>>> Java : Ant
> 
> Interesting typo here !-)
> 
> Hmmm... Python predates both C# and Java. Ok, technically speaking
> nothing prevents an uncle or aunt from being younger than their nephews,
> and I even saw the case a couple time - but that's far from being the
> common case.
> 
>>> Ruby: Cousin
>>> Perl : Girlfriend
> 
> Then it's kind of a very passionate love-hate relationship - bordering
> on pathological FWIW !-)

I'd say that the girlfriend is more likely Lisp or Haskell -- some of the 
more functional aspects of Python have been inspired by these languages.

> Now you forgot the whole Lisp / ML heritage - most FP stuff -, and of
> course Simula and Smalltalk.

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 18:37:45 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Feb 2010 23:37:45 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:08 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.

That phrase you keep using, "ad hominem"... it doesn't mean what you seem 
to think it means.

An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you 
personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of "Don't 
pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's a 
<whatever>".

You might not like the personal criticism, but that doesn't make it 
either an attack or a fallacy.


-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 18:40:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:40:50 +0100
Subject: Easter Eggs
Message-ID: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I know 3 Python Easter Eggs,

   from __future__ import braces
   import this
   help( "antigravity" )

Are there more?


Cheers,

- Alf


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 18:43:51 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:43:51 -0300
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vv7dsjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:10:56 -0300, Grant Edwards  
<invalid at invalid.invalid> escribi?:

> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>
> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
> MS-bashing here]

I'm not sure you can blame MS of this issue; anyway, this patch should fix  
the problem:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=896256

> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?

No that I know of. QueryPerformanceCounter (the function used by  
time.clock) seems to be the best timer available.

> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
> that time.clock() works right?

Interactively, from the Task Manager:
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/taskman_assign_process.mspx

In code, using SetProcessAffinityMask and related functions:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms686223(VS.85).aspx

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Feb  9 18:49:25 2010
From: mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:49:25 +0000
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
In-Reply-To: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B71F485.4050703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Hi have a set of classes that represent mathematical objects which can
> be represented as a string using a 'latex' method (after Knuth's famous
> typesetting system).  As I want to be able to typeset some builtin types as
> well, I have a generic function, latex(), as follows:
> 
> def latex(val):
>     try:
>         return val.latex()
>     except AttributeError:
>         if isinstance(val, (tuple, list)):
>             return ", ".join(map(latex, val))
>         elif isinstance(val, dict):
>             return ", ".join(
>                 "%s=%s" % (latex(k), latex(v)) 
>                 for k, v in sorted(val.iteritems())
>             )
>         else:
>             return str(val)
> 
> It's EAFP and I have used this for a while with no problem.  Recently I
> added a new class for 'n choose r' objects, as follows:
> 
> class Choose(Expression):
>    def __init__(self, n, r):
>         self.subexprs = n, r
>         self.n = n
>         self.r = r
>     def calc(self, ns=None, calc=calc):
>         return choose(calc(self.n, ns), calc(self.r, ns))
>     def latex(self):
>         return "{%s \\choose %s}" % (latex(self.n), latex(self.k))
> 
> When I create a Choose object and try to get its latex representation,
> this happens:
> 
>>>> c = Choose(5, 3)
>>>> latex(c)
> '<qmm.maths.expressions.Choose object at 0x17c92d0>'
> 
> This puzzled me for a bit: why is it not trying to use the latex()
> method of the Choose object?  I read and reread the definition of the
> latex() method for a while until I found that there was a typo.  Where
> it says:
> 
>     latex(self.k)
> 
> it should say:
> 
>     latex(self.r)
> 
> Thus it triggers an AttributeError, which is exactly the kind of
> exception that I am catching in the latex() function after trying
> val.latex(). (Of course I could have caught this by calling c.latex()
> directly but it's such a short method definition that I couldn't imagine
> missing the typo!).
> 
> This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
> detected had I LBYLed, i.e. instead of
> 
>     try:
>         return val.latex()
>     except AttributeError:
>         ...
> 
> do
> 
>     if hasattr(val, 'latex'):
>         return val.latex()
>     else:
>         ...
> 
> 
> So was it wrong to say it's EAFP in this case?  Should I have known to
> LBYL from the start?  How do you decide which one to use?  Up to now, I
> thought it was more or less a matter of taste but now this makes me
> think that at least LBYL is better than catching AttributeError.
> 
> Thanks for any guidance.
> 
In addition to the other replies, you should've tested the Choose class. :-)


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 18:55:36 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:55:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<roy-D50219.08213509022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <bdfeea74-825e-4d44-b033-f53c662fa091@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 7:21?am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> In article <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8... at news.astraweb.com>,
> ?Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

[..]

> No pig latin?

Wait a minute guys, Stevens a well known prankster and comic relief
clown around here, I think he's just shining us all on! ;o)


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb  9 18:59:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:59:15 +0100
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <4B71F6D3.9020803@sequans.com>

Quin wrote:
> s = f.readline()
> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
> if 'mystring' in s:
>    print 'processing'
>
> this generates output:
> not found
> processing
>
> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.
>
> This is using IronPython
The code you povided works as expected.

Copy paste the exact code

JM


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 18:59:16 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:59:16 -0300
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<8281270.AG5xCW3FSB@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <op.u7vww2phx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:47:43 -0300, Martin Drautzburg  
<Martin.Drautzburg at web.de> escribi?:

> Carl Banks wrote:
>
>> You can have __add__ return a closure for the first addition, then
>> perform the operation on the second one.  Example (untested):
>>
>
> That's way cool.
>
> <Flash of insight> Of course! - CURRYING!! If you can return closures
> you can do everything with just single-parameter functions.</Flash of
> insight>
>
> BTW I am not really trying to add three objects, I wanted a third object
> which controls the way the addition is done. Sort of like "/" and "//"
> which are two different ways of doing division.

See http://code.activestate.com/recipes/384122/ for another cool hack that  
may help with that.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From rantingrick at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:01:44 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:01:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Easter Eggs
References: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7e0eb494-71d6-47c6-96ad-fecf0866fb25@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 5:40?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> I know 3 Python Easter Eggs,
>
> ? ?from __future__ import braces
> ? ?import this
> ? ?help( "antigravity" )
>
> Are there more?
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf

Oh this is just great ALF! Now what secrets will the Py-Illuminati
have to giggle about whist watching Monty Python's flying circus and
enjoying those delightfully delicious little crumpets? I very
disappointed in you sir!  :'-(

PS WTF






From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 19:06:02 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:06:02 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkst5i$ufr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:08 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
> 
> That phrase you keep using, "ad hominem"... it doesn't mean what you seem 
> to think it means.
> 
> An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you 
> personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of "Don't 
> pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's a 
> <whatever>".

<url: http://www.tfd.com/ad+hominem>
ad hominem Latin [?d ?h?m??n?m]
adj & adv
1. directed against a person rather than against his arguments
2. based on or appealing to emotion rather than reason Compare ad rem See also 
argumentum ad hominem



> You might not like the personal criticism, but that doesn't make it 
> either an attack or a fallacy.

Steve Holden attacked only at the personal level, via characterization.

In response to ...

 > >> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it [failure of article propagation].
 >
 > Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?

... Steve Holden wrote:

<quote>
Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
</quote>

Which doesn't have anything to do with any subject matter discussed, not even 
the PS that he was replying to (which absolutely didn't warrant that description 
or any negative response), but which does convey an impression of a person.

Then he wrote

<quote>
you assumed you knew better than Stephen [Hansen]
</quote>

which again is only about a person, and here about the person's motivations for 
trying to help.

And there was a bit more with some collateral damage in the implications.

It's pretty dirty and yes, personal attacks are ad hominem; see above.

The ad hominem attacks that he appears to routinely engage in reflect back on 
Steve Holden but the sub-threads that they invariably spawn also constitute a 
high level of noise deflecting from whatever issue was discussed.



Cheers & hth. (especially the dictionary reference),

- Alf

PS: in order to recognize various forms of fallacies the following is a quite 
useful resource: <url: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/>. I just typed 
"fallacies" in the Firefox address bar. - DS


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 19:14:57 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:14:57 -0300
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for
	windows
References: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vxm7i5x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:30 -0300, Mark Jones <mark0978 at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> Python 2.6.4 is built, and I found a bdist_wininst project and
> wininst-8 project.
>
> How do I manage to build the msi for this thing?

See the Tools\msi directory; and look for some posts last year from Tim  
Golden regarding some issues with the directory layout and other details.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From rtw at freenet.co.uk  Tue Feb  9 19:16:24 2010
From: rtw at freenet.co.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:16:24 -0600
Subject: Problem Regarding Queue
References: <80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1B3085309BrtwfreenetREMOVEcouk@216.196.109.145>

mukesh tiwari wrote in news:80fed7d5-76eb-40c8-ace1-0c35736de399
@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com in comp.lang.python:

> Could some one please tell what is wrong with this code. I am trying
> to use Queue in this program but i am getting error

The type you appear to be trying to use is Queue.Queue which you import
with:

from Queue import Queue 

http://docs.python.org/library/queue.html?highlight=queue#Queue.Queue

>     Q_1=Queue()
>     Q_2=Queue()
>     Q_1.put(n)
>     while(not Q_1.empty()):
>         l=Q_1.get()
>         if(rabin_miller(l)):
>             Q_2.put(l)
>             continue
>         d=pollard(l)
>         if(d==l):Q_1.put(l)
>         else:

As the help page above points out also check out the deque Class:

http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html#collections.deque

Rob.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb  9 19:23:34 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:23:34 +1100
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies (was: Modifying Class
	Object)
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you
> personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of
> "Don't pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking
> about, he's a <whatever>".

In other words, a criticism of the person is only a fallacy if it is
both irrelevant to the argument *and* used to dismiss the argument.

Many criticisms are introduced not because they directly connect to the
argument, but simply because they are relevant to the demonstrated
behaviour at the time.

> You might not like the personal criticism, but that doesn't make it 
> either an attack or a fallacy.

Exactly. A personal criticism can be expressed *as a criticism*, and be
valid or not without needing to be relevant to your chosen argument.
Look to the criticism on its own merits, and decide what to do about it.

-- 
 \         ?If there were not God, there would be no atheists.? ?G. K. |
  `\                                                        Chesterton |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From van.lindberg at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:24:15 2010
From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 18:24:15 -0600
Subject: PyCon is coming! Tomorrow, Feb. 10 is the last day for pre-conference
	rates
Message-ID: <hksube$p4a$1@ger.gmane.org>

PyCon is coming! Tomorrow (February 10th) is the last day for
pre-conference rates. You can register for PyCon online at:

<https://us.pycon.org/2010/register/>

Register while it is still Feb. 10th somewhere in the world and rest
easy in the knowledge that within 10 days you will enjoying the company
of some of the finest Python hackers in the world.

As an additional bonus, PyCon this year will be in Atlanta, making it an
ideal location for those looking for a way to escape the late winter
blizzards in the northeastern United States, or the dreary fog of the
Bay area.

See you at PyCon 2010!



From mark0978 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:24:58 2010
From: mark0978 at gmail.com (Mark Jones)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:24:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for 
	windows
References: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1265760917.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b61ba2f6-46bb-42a4-94b7-fb42b0a79494@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

That was so simple, thanks.

I scanned all the folders for inst, install, setup, but since msi was
the expected output extension, I didn't see that!

On Feb 9, 6:14?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-... at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:55:30 -0300, Mark Jones <mark0... at gmail.com> ?
> escribi?:
>
> > Python 2.6.4 is built, and I found a bdist_wininst project and
> > wininst-8 project.
>
> > How do I manage to build the msi for this thing?
>
> See the Tools\msi directory; and look for some posts last year from Tim ?
> Golden regarding some issues with the directory layout and other details.
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina



From half.italian at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 19:27:41 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<22ac2bce-cf12-45e2-9d89-d7df56a2faa7@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkq3lv$7k2$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8fc356e0-f3ed-4a67-9b37-f21561cef4a5@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 2:36?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f6... at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> Sean DiZazzo ?<half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Feb 3, 6:08=A0pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> There was also a PEP with another possible implementation:
> >>http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0355/
>
> >Why did Path() get rejected? ?Is it the idea itself, or just the
> >approach that was used? ?What are the complaints?
>
> You should search for the discussiona around it.
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> import antigravity

I read the discussion, and there was definitely some going back and
forth on whether it should be sub-classed from string, but the
conversation just seemed to stop abruptly with no decision one way of
the other.  Maybe I missed a thread.

I guess being dropped without a final go-ahead is just as good as a
formal no anyway.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 19:29:31 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:29:31 -0300
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7vybhv3x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:27:13 -0300, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki at gmail.com>  
escribi?:
> On 10-02-2010 00:09, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * David Robinow:
>>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Simon Brunning  
>>> <simon at brunningonline.net> wrote:
>>>> On 9 February 2010 16:29, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2010-02-09 09:37 AM, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>>>>> If the code base stabilizes in a production version after losing the
>>>>>> alphas and betas they would be a great addition to the stdlib, I
>>>>>> think.
>>>>> Why?
>>>> I agree. Why wait? Put them in the stdlib now!
>>> Can we please stop this?
>> I agree.
>>
> sorry I don't,
> unless Python is only meant for the very well educated people in  
> encryption.
>
>> I haven't looked at the code but the functionality that's listed is  
>> useful, e.g. in a Usenet client, and it's fun to play around with for a  
>> beginner.
> I neither did look at the code,
> but as a beginner with just 3 years of experience in Python,
> I've tried several scrambling libs, for a quick and dirty use.
> All were much too difficult, so I made my own xor-something.
> Coming from Delphi, a scrambling lib is working is less than 10 minutes,  
> without the need of any knowledge of encryption.
> I prefer Python over Delphi, but some things are made very complex in  
> Python.

Are you sure?

>>> def xor(s, key):
...   return ''.join(chr(ord(c)^key) for c in s)
...
>>> txt = "Hello world!"
>>> xor(txt, 123)
'3\x1e\x17\x17\x14[\x0c\x14\t\x17\x1fZ'
>>> xor(_, 123)
'Hello world!'

The Delphi code would be certainly longer than that, some variation of:

function encrypt_xor(const s: string; key: integer);
var
   i: integer;
begin
   SetLength(Result, length(s));
   for i:=1 to length(s) do
   begin
     Result[i] := chr(ord(s[i]) xor key);
   end;
end;

(untested)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 19:38:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ben Finney:
> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
> 
>> An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you
>> personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of
>> "Don't pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking
>> about, he's a <whatever>".
> 
> In other words, a criticism of the person is only a fallacy if it is
> both irrelevant to the argument *and* used to dismiss the argument.

Or to weaken an argument, or to draw attention away from an argument, or to 
weaken future arguments...

However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems constituted logical 
fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical fallacies.

For example, if a person is a chronic liar, has a known history of lying, then 
that can have a strong bearing on whether the person's claims  --  technical or 
about other persons  --  should be seriously considered[1].


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf



Notes:
[1] As explained at <url: 
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html>


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Feb  9 19:39:31 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:39:31 -0300
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hkst5i$ufr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7vyr52kx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:06:02 -0300, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no>  
escribi?:

> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:08 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>
>>> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
>>  That phrase you keep using, "ad hominem"... it doesn't mean what you  
>> seem to think it means.
>>  An ad hominem attack is not when somebody makes a criticism of you  
>> personally. It is when somebody says something along the lines of  
>> "Don't pay any attention to Alf, he doesn't know what he's talking  
>> about, he's a <whatever>".
>
> <url: http://www.tfd.com/ad+hominem>
> ad hominem Latin [?d ?h?m??n?m]
> adj & adv
> 1. directed against a person rather than against his arguments
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 2. based on or appealing to emotion rather than reason Compare ad rem  
> See also argumentum ad hominem
>
> In response to ...
>
>  > >> No idea. Nothing I know of can solve it [failure of article  
> propagation].
>  >
>  > Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>
> ... Steve Holden wrote:
>
> <quote>
> Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
> </quote>
>
> Which doesn't have anything to do with any subject matter discussed, not  
> even the PS that he was replying to (which absolutely didn't warrant  
> that description or any negative response), but which does convey an  
> impression of a person.

This doesn't make it an ad hominem fallacie. This is just criticism  
directed to your person, that you may like or not. It would be a fallacie  
if it were intended to dismiss your argument.

> PS: in order to recognize various forms of fallacies the following is a  
> quite useful resource: <url: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/>.  
> I just typed "fallacies" in the Firefox address bar. - DS

 From the above site:

"this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character  
of person making the claim [...] Second, this attack is taken to be  
evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making  
(or presenting)."

That second part is missing in S. H. posts.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From lists at cheimes.de  Tue Feb  9 20:03:47 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:03:47 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7205F3.6040603@cheimes.de>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> sorry I don't,
> unless Python is only meant for the very well educated people in encryption.

All algorithms in obfuscate are obsolete, insecure and only interesting
for people *that* want to get well educated in the history of encryption.

> I neither did look at the code,
> but as a beginner with just 3 years of experience in Python,
> I've tried several scrambling libs, for a quick and dirty use.
> All were much too difficult, so I made my own xor-something.
> Coming from Delphi, a scrambling lib is working is less than 10 minutes, 
> without the need of any knowledge of encryption.
> I prefer Python over Delphi, but some things are made very complex in 
> Python.

It's tricky to implement modern cryptographic algorithms with Python.
Most example codes are written in C and the implementations are using
overflow (e.g. 255 + 1 == 0) a lot. It took me twice as long to get the
TEA family (TEA, XTEA, XXTEA) crypt functions right in Python than I
required to wrap existing code in an handwritten C interface.

One of the strongest encryption algorithm in the list -- Vigen?re -- was
crack over 150 years (!) ago. A much, much stronger version of the
principles behind Vigen?re was used in the German Enigma machine.
Because the algorithm was still not good enought some clever guy called
Turing and his team was able to crack the enigma. It's one of the main
reasons the Germans were defeated and the world doesn't look like in
Robert Harris "Fatherland" today. Oh, and we go computers, too. ;)

Grab pycrypto, m2crypto or one of the other packages if you need a
minimum amount of security.

Christian


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb  9 20:24:44 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:24:44 +1100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de> writes:

> All algorithms in obfuscate are obsolete, insecure and only
> interesting for people *that* want to get well educated in the history
> of encryption.

Not true. Another use case is suggested by the chosen name for the
library: to obfuscate text against casual human reading, while not
making it at all difficult to decrypt by people who are motivated to do
so.

The classic example is rot-13 encryption of text in internet messages;
it would be a failure of imagination to suggest there are not other,
similar use cases.

> Grab pycrypto, m2crypto or one of the other packages if you need a
> minimum amount of security.

Agreed. However, for cases that *don't* need security from determined
attackers, I don't think those obviate the usefulness of this library.

-- 
 \     ?Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature |
  `\                            cannot be fooled.? ?Richard P. Feynman |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb  9 20:35:21 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 01:35:21 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.10.01.35.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:03:47 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:

> Stef Mientki wrote:
>> sorry I don't,
>> unless Python is only meant for the very well educated people in
>> encryption.
> 
> All algorithms in obfuscate are obsolete, insecure and only interesting
> for people *that* want to get well educated in the history of
> encryption.
[...]
> Grab pycrypto, m2crypto or one of the other packages if you need a
> minimum amount of security.

As the author of obfuscate, I would like to second Christian's statement. 
obfuscate is NOT meant for serious security, as I state in both the 
source code and the documentation to the module.

That's not to say that it can't be useful for some people -- I wouldn't 
have spent the time writing it if I didn't think it was useful. But it is 
useful for obfuscation, education and puzzles, not for secure encryption.

I'm not sure how serious the calls for this to be added to the standard 
library are. If they're serious, I'm grateful for the votes of confidence 
from people, but I can't imagine Guido saying yes. In any case, it's 
premature to talk about adding it to the std library while it is still in 
alpha.

Thank you for all the comments, even the tongue-in-cheek ones. This has 
exceeded my wildest expectations! I'm always interested in feedback, good 
and bad, either publicly or privately.



-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb  9 21:04:43 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:04:43 -0500
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hkt47r$7bj$1@ger.gmane.org>


>>> C is Python's Mom
>>> C++ : Dad

Obviously no. The other parent might be arguably be Barbara Liskov's 
CLU, itself based on Algol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLU_%28programming_language%29

CLU contributions:
  The basic object model, including mutable/immutable
  The function call-by-object model
  Iterators/generators/yield
  Multiple assignment and function returns

Terry Jan Reedy



From danielwong at berkeley.edu  Tue Feb  9 21:40:26 2010
From: danielwong at berkeley.edu (danielx)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 18:40:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: convention for documenting function parameters in doc strings
References: <b63184df-504e-49be-9f0b-d63c37e1ce9d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2148.1265626204.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c7b45503-b5e1-4dd2-a724-9ed00a24fd68@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 8, 2:49?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> danielx wrote:
> > Is there aconventionfor how to document function (or method)
> > parameters in doc strings? Recently, I've been doing alot of PHP
> > programming, and in PHPdoc, you'd do it like this:
>
> > /*
> > ?* @param type $foo Description.
> > ?*
> > ?* @return type Description.
> > ?*/
> > function bar($foo) {
> > ? ...
> > }
>
> > Is there an equivalentconventionI (c|sh)ould be using in my Python
> > docstrings? I saw that Python 3 has function annotations, which could
> > be used for this purpose, but function annotations have no particular
> > purpose within the language itself (which seems like a mistake to me),
> > and they don't exist in the Python 2.x series (at least not the older
> > versions).
>
> Different strategies here:
>
> 1/ most doc builders propose their own format. You can stick to it if
> you don't want to use another builder (e.g. epydoc has a specific syntax
> to document signatures)
> 2/ Use a 'standard' format, usually these formats are a bit more formal
> but they gain in portability, most builders support these formats.
> reStructuredText is one of them and supported by all python doc builders.
>
> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-othermarkup.html
>
> JM

Thanks for the link, Jean-Michel. I was hoping to find out more about
how this is don in reStructuredText, since that seems to be what's
used to document Python at docs.python.org. There is a section in the
page that you linked to which describes how documenting function
parameters in reST works, which seems to be what I was looking for.


From orgnut at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  9 22:09:45 2010
From: orgnut at yahoo.com (Larry Hudson)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:09:45 -0800
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>

Quin wrote:
> s = f.readline()
> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
> if 'mystring' in s:
>    print 'processing'
> 
> this generates output:
> not found
> processing
> 
> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.
> 
> This is using IronPython

As others have already said, this _does_ work properly.

But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:

if 'mystring' not in s:
     print 'not found'
else:
     print 'foundit'
     print 'processing'

      -=- Larry -=-


From quindennis at grandecom.net  Tue Feb  9 22:30:52 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:30:52 -0600
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching to 
PyScripter and will test tomorrow.

"Larry Hudson" <orgnut at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d at giganews.com...
> Quin wrote:
>> s = f.readline()
>> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
>> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
>> if 'mystring' in s:
>>    print 'processing'
>>
>> this generates output:
>> not found
>> processing
>>
>> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.
>>
>> This is using IronPython
>
> As others have already said, this _does_ work properly.
>
> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>
> if 'mystring' not in s:
>     print 'not found'
> else:
>     print 'foundit'
>     print 'processing'
>
>      -=- Larry -=- 



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Feb  9 22:36:50 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:36:50 -0600
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>

Larry Hudson wrote:
> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
> 
> if 'mystring' not in s:
>      print 'not found'
> else:
>      print 'foundit'
>      print 'processing'

I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as 
Larry does, or as

   if 'mystring' in s
     print 'foundit'
     print 'processing'
   else:
     print 'not found'

removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over 
the other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really 
nail down.  I think one of my major influencing factors revolves 
around the negative "not" portion having one or two lines and the 
  positive portion having a large block of code.  If the 
code-blocks are more equal in size, I tend to use "if 
{positive}", but if the negative "not" section is only 1-2 lines, 
I tend to do as Larry writes and make it harder to miss by using 
"if {negative}".  Otherwise the "if {positive}...else" can end up 
sufficiently distant from the "if" that it's easy to miss.

Any thoughts on how others make the choice?

-tkc




From cs at zip.com.au  Tue Feb  9 22:54:17 2010
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:54:17 +1100
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
References: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <20100210035417.GA5737@cskk.homeip.net>

On 09Feb2010 21:36, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
| Larry Hudson wrote:
| >But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
| >
| >if 'mystring' not in s:
| >     print 'not found'
| >else:
| >     print 'foundit'
| >     print 'processing'
| 
| I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as
| Larry does, or as
| 
|   if 'mystring' in s
|     print 'foundit'
|     print 'processing'
|   else:
|     print 'not found'
| 
| removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over
| the other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really
| nail down.  I think one of my major influencing factors revolves
| around the negative "not" portion having one or two lines and the
| positive portion having a large block of code.  If the code-blocks
| are more equal in size, I tend to use "if {positive}", but if the
| negative "not" section is only 1-2 lines, I tend to do as Larry
| writes and make it harder to miss by using "if {negative}".
| Otherwise the "if {positive}...else" can end up sufficiently distant
| from the "if" that it's easy to miss.

I do it like you, usually: if one branch is small, it comes first, the other
branch is easily in sight under the "else". Otherwise, I tend to go with "if
{positive}", or at any rate "if {the easiest-to-read-form-of-the-test}" if it
all still reads well.  If the program flow gets ugly one way, that breaks
"still reads well" and can be cause to flip the condition.

In loops my tendency is a bit less flexible; I often have code like
this:

  while ...:
    if winnowing-test:
      whinge
      set flag
      continue or break, depending
    main body of loop here...

Not a lot of choice about positive/negative in that scenario,
though it fits well with the first criterion.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

A Master is someone who started before you did. - Gary Zukav


From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Tue Feb  9 22:58:02 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:58:02 -0600
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <eae285401002091958h7802d436sf67fb88ec69be546@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

> removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over the other
> based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really nail down.  I think
> one of my major influencing factors revolves around the negative "not"
> portion having one or two lines and the  positive portion having a large
> block of code.


If one block is much shorter, I tend to put the shorter block first.  That
way, the "else" and the "if" are almost always on the screen together at the
same time.  If they're both long, I factor out one or both of the blocks
into functions.

--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com/>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb  9 23:01:31 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:01:31 -0500
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <hktb6d$m53$1@ger.gmane.org>

Quin wrote:
> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching
> to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
> 
I'd be very surprised to find that something as basic as this was wrong
with IronPython. Complex commercial software has been built on it, so
there's little question that the platform is sound.

Are you *sure* you copied and pasted the session you listed?

regards
 Steve

> "Larry Hudson" <orgnut at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d at giganews.com...
>> Quin wrote:
>>> s = f.readline()
>>> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
>>> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
>>> if 'mystring' in s:
>>>    print 'processing'
>>>
>>> this generates output:
>>> not found
>>> processing
>>>
>>> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code anyway.
>>>
>>> This is using IronPython
>>
>> As others have already said, this _does_ work properly.
>>
>> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>>
>> if 'mystring' not in s:
>>     print 'not found'
>> else:
>>     print 'foundit'
>>     print 'processing'
>>
>>      -=- Larry -=- 
> 


-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 23:05:09 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:05:09 -0800
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <eae285401002091958h7802d436sf67fb88ec69be546@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com> 
	<eae285401002091958h7802d436sf67fb88ec69be546@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002092005k7b8f6a2csec1ea5a8c28ec530@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Daniel Stutzbach <
daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:
>
>> removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over the
>> other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really nail down.  I
>> think one of my major influencing factors revolves around the negative "not"
>> portion having one or two lines and the  positive portion having a large
>> block of code.
>
>
> If one block is much shorter, I tend to put the shorter block first.  That
> way, the "else" and the "if" are almost always on the screen together at the
> same time.  If they're both long, I factor out one or both of the blocks
> into functions.
>

Agree 100%.

I like whatever the little branch is to be first, with the big branch
falling into the "else:". It reads better then to have an "else:" at the end
with only a line or two: in such a situation what 'else' is doesn't really
have direct meaning, you have to look too far up to connect it to the "if"
logic. Comments shouldn't be needed-- if an "else:" falls too far away from
the "if" then scrolling around and looking for the code, it won't be
immediately obvious in meaning.

And if both branches are fairly long, it tends to imply that I just might
benefit from some more functions to re-organize logic into manageable
chunks. Then again, general rule of thumb? If a function is not entirely
visible on my screen, it might imply I might benefit from some more
functions. Though this is not anything like a hard rule.

--S
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From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb  9 23:09:37 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:09:37 +0100
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hktbe8$h6c$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Tim Chase:
> Larry Hudson wrote:
>> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>>
>> if 'mystring' not in s:
>>      print 'not found'
>> else:
>>      print 'foundit'
>>      print 'processing'
> 
> I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as Larry 
> does, or as
> 
>   if 'mystring' in s
>     print 'foundit'
>     print 'processing'
>   else:
>     print 'not found'
> 
> removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over the 
> other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really nail 
> down.  I think one of my major influencing factors revolves around the 
> negative "not" portion having one or two lines and the  positive portion 
> having a large block of code.  If the code-blocks are more equal in 
> size, I tend to use "if {positive}", but if the negative "not" section 
> is only 1-2 lines, I tend to do as Larry writes and make it harder to 
> miss by using "if {negative}".  Otherwise the "if {positive}...else" can 
> end up sufficiently distant from the "if" that it's easy to miss.
> 
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?

I think it spills over from the practice of checking preconditions first, e.g. 
returning or raising exceptions or whatever.

This avoids silly n-level nesting of the main "normal case" part.


Cheers,

- Alf


From python at bdurham.com  Tue Feb  9 23:45:28 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:45:28 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
Message-ID: <1265777128.24758.1359202989@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
'picture' format?

For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
transformation myself?

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 00:24:20 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:24:20 -0800
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <1265777128.24758.1359202989@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1265777128.24758.1359202989@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002092124v51815151m96042ed8483afe23@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:45 PM, <python at bdurham.com> wrote:

> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a 'picture'
> format?
>
> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted like
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will allow me to do
> this or do I need to code this type of transformation myself?
>

Although I usually don't jump to suggesting regular expressions, its the
easiest way I can figure out to do this.

>>> import re
>>> >>> print re.sub(r"(\d{3})(\d{2})(\d{3})(\d)", r"(\1)-\2-(\3)[\4]",
"123456789")
(123)-45-(678)[9]

--S
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From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb 10 01:41:46 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:41:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7c76a725-bd88-41a0-9867-820b82b872e7@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 10:10?am, Grant Edwards <inva... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>
On Feb 9, 10:10 am, Grant Edwards <inva... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Is there another way to measure small periods of elapsed time
> (say in the 1-10ms range)?
>

I made repeated calls to time.clock() in a generator expression, which
is as fast a loop I can think of in Python.  Then I computed the
successive time deltas to see if any granularities jumped out.  Here
are the results:

>>> import time
>>> from itertools import groupby
>>>
>>> # get about 1000 different values of time.clock()
>>> ts = set(time.clock() for i in range(1000))
>>>
>>> # sort in ascending order
>>> ts = sorted(ts)
>>>
>>> # compute diffs between adjacent time values
>>> diffs = [j-i for i,j in zip(ts[:-1],ts[1:])]
>>>
>>> # sort and group
>>> diffs.sort()
>>> diffgroups = groupby(diffs)
>>>
>>> # print the distribution of time differences in microseconds
>>> for i in diffgroups: print "%3d %12.6f" % (len(list(i[1])), i[0]*1e6)
...
 25     2.234921
 28     2.234921
242     2.514286
506     2.514286
 45     2.793651
116     2.793651
  1     3.073016
  8     3.073016
  6     3.352381
  4     3.631746
  3     3.911112
  1     3.911112
  5     4.190477
  2     4.469842
  1     6.146033
  1     8.660319
  1     9.777779
  1    10.895239
  1    11.174605
  1    24.304765
  1    41.904767

There seems to be a step size of about .28 microseconds.  So I would
guess time.clock() has enough resolution.  But also beware of the
overhead of the calls to clock() - using timeit, I find that each call
takes about 2 microseconds (consistent with the smallest time
difference in the above data set).

-- Paul


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 01:47:40 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 22:47:40 -0800
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002092247g2a3a2c4bt6e93921a73c005c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Quin <quindennis at grandecom.net> wrote:

> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching to
> PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>

The chance of this being the case is vanishingly small.

Provide real code, copy-pasted directly from a real file, and showing real
results that demonstrate this behavior.

There is no way that IronProfile is so utterly and fundamentally broken that
such a simple and basic function doesn't work like this. There's no way that
what you've shown us as describing the behavior is -really- what's
happening. You seem to be paraphrasing code to illustrate a problem: but
that's leaving out what's -really- causing the problem that you think isn't
related, but really is.

--S
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From darcy at druid.net  Wed Feb 10 01:51:32 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:51:32 -0500
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <20100210015132.3808f0d5.darcy@druid.net>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems constituted logical 
> fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical fallacies.

Yes they are.  Using the reputation of someone to prove or disprove
their claims is a logical fallacy.

> For example, if a person is a chronic liar, has a known history of lying, then 
> that can have a strong bearing on whether the person's claims  --  technical or 
> about other persons  --  should be seriously considered[1].

Yes but it's still a fallacy.  Taking the author's history into account
may be valid for deciding that further investigation is warranted but by
itself it does not prove anything about the claims.  Suggesting that it
does is fallacious.

"Bill is a liar therefore his statement is false" is a fallacy.  "Bill
is a liar so take his claims with a grain of salt" is not.

There is another case.  "Bill never tells the truth therefore his
claim is wrong" is not an ad hominem fallacy.  It's a sylogism.  It may
or may not be correct but if the first statement is true (Bill always
lies) then the the conclusion is true.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From howe.steven at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 02:06:24 2010
From: howe.steven at gmail.com (Steven Howe)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:06:24 -0800
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <20100210015132.3808f0d5.darcy@druid.net>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<20100210015132.3808f0d5.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <4B725AF0.9030803@gmail.com>

Really, is this a relevant topic on a program mail list? You guys need 
to get a room and start discussing angel counts on pinheads under the 
blankets.

sph

On 02/09/2010 10:51 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
> "Alf P. Steinbach"<alfps at start.no>  wrote:
>    
>> However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems constituted logical
>> fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical fallacies.
>>      
> Yes they are.  Using the reputation of someone to prove or disprove
> their claims is a logical fallacy.
>
>    
>> For example, if a person is a chronic liar, has a known history of lying, then
>> that can have a strong bearing on whether the person's claims  --  technical or
>> about other persons  --  should be seriously considered[1].
>>      
> Yes but it's still a fallacy.  Taking the author's history into account
> may be valid for deciding that further investigation is warranted but by
> itself it does not prove anything about the claims.  Suggesting that it
> does is fallacious.
>
> "Bill is a liar therefore his statement is false" is a fallacy.  "Bill
> is a liar so take his claims with a grain of salt" is not.
>
> There is another case.  "Bill never tells the truth therefore his
> claim is wrong" is not an ad hominem fallacy.  It's a sylogism.  It may
> or may not be correct but if the first statement is true (Bill always
> lies) then the the conclusion is true.
>
>    



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 10 02:41:53 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:41:53 +1100
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2279.1265784717.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wrylh70e.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy at druid.net> writes:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> > However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems
> > constituted logical fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical
> > fallacies.
>
> Yes they are.  Using the reputation of someone to prove or disprove
> their claims is a logical fallacy.

The trouble is, the bulk of statements Alf is calling ?ad hominem
attack? are, if one actually reads them, a criticism of his person. Not
intended as a connecting claim in an argument, but a claim *distinct
from* the argument Alf is engaged in.

So they're *not intended* to prove or disprove the specific claims that
immediately precede them. They're intended, at least partly, to provoke
self-reflection on the part of the person criticised and, ideally, an
improvement in behaviour.

Failure to recognise a criticism as such, and instead repeatedly
flinging the term ?ad hominem? around as though it has any bearing, is
an example of behaviour that could easily be improved, if only the
person engaging in it would stop.

-- 
 \      ?You've got to think about big things while you're doing small |
  `\              things, so that all the small things go in the right |
_o__)                                       direction.? ?Alvin Toffler |
Ben Finney


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 02:43:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 23:43:17 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
[abundant snips which do not accurately represent who said what where due to
my own laziness]

>  Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly to gmane?
>>>>>
>>>>>  Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
>>>>
>>> I thought the answer could help.
>>>
>>> You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
>>>
>>> That's the difference between us.
>>>
>>>  Well, the way I see it, you assumed you knew better than Stephen, and
>> insisted on proposing a solution to a problem that he clearly stated he
>> had no interest in.
>>
>
> You're going into motivations, that it seems to me that you're projecting,
> saying that any helpful suggestion mean that one thinks one knows better and
> implies a desire to demonstrate imagined superiority.
>
> You're trying to portray a helping hand as a negative personal
> characteristic of the helper.
>
> "the only reason that guy tries to help you is because he wishes to show
> how superior he (thinks he) is".
>
> That's your style in a fair number of postings, and now here:
>
>  * ad hominem attack,
>

I am, frankly, tired of this.

Please stop this overly obsessive sensitivity towards what you think are "ad
hominem" attacks. Just drop it. Its worthless. It degrades you. Your
arguments are frequently nothing more then, "I define the world this way and
you do not disagree so I declare your argument invalid". You've dismissed at
least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of, "That's invalid,
cuz." The thing is, there was no basis for 'cuz' beyond "In my own head this
is what I think, this is how I'm defining words"

The response of others to such arguments has been, "Do you /really/ need to
be so absolutely right in everything?!" which is said in frustration,
irritation and with deep sighing.

And then begins the loud declarations of ad hominem attacks.

Its not productive. It doesn't help your case or arguments.

Its tired.

It doesn't make your case. It doesn't make anyone but you look bad. Every
time you go on about, "YOU ARE AD HOMINEM'N ME!", you just make yourself
look worse.

Yeah. People can be snarky in a community. Maybe... MAYBE... Steve Holden is
periodically a little snarky at you. It is not without reason. And your
declarations of his ad hominem attacks against you comes off as nothing but
base /whining/.

Just drop it.

Its boring.

Also...

I'm not quite sure, given that, what the point of the advice was.
>>
>
> There are many people who read just the Usenet group, e.g. via Google
> groups.
>
> When you say you don't understand the point of the advice, you're saying
> that
>
>  * those people don't matter, and that
>
>  * it doesn't matter whether they can read Stephen Hansen's articles.
>
> That's
>
>  * slighting Stephen Hansen, and
>
>  * showing off an extreme ego-centric view of the world,
>

Please do NOT presume to take up my defense on ANY level.

I can handle myself, thank you.

I have said as much on two occasions that I don't know why some people seem
unable to see my postings on usenet, and that despite this, I don't really
care. It is not worth it to me to make my voice known to every possible
listener in the world. I don't have sufficient vanity to assume that I need
to be heard.

I speak when it interests me to speak; and if heard, perhaps I'm listened
to. Perhaps they will be helped. Perhaps they will not. Perhaps someone will
argue with me. Perhaps we will both benefit from this debate and the
exchange of ideas. That's the ideal situation, of course. Discourse and
debate leading to new understanding. But I don't need anyone to defend my
place in such discourse.

I do not want, and utterly reject, anyone else standing up and taking any
sort of stand on my behalf related to if someone else has slighted me.

If and when I feel that I have been slighted, I will react accordingly. If
Steve Holden slighted me in any way (he has not), I am more then capable of
saying so on my own. I'd tell the BDFL he was an ass if he were an ass (he
is not!) if I thought it was warranted.

Thank you, but the value of my contribution to the community is a
determination that I will make based on my own interest to share; and a
determination those who do read me will make based on their interest to
respond. If I needed everyone to hear me, I'd start up a blog and post rants
all the time. If I felt that my contribution were not being heard fairly
according to its worth, I'd try to take steps to make sure I was.

--S
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From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 02:53:53 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:53:53 +0100
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <87wrylh70e.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2279.1265784717.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87wrylh70e.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hktoio$ao1$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ben Finney:
> "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy at druid.net> writes:
> 
>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:38:50 +0100
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>> However, although in this particular case the Ad Hominems
>>> constituted logical fallacies, not all Ad Hominems are logical
>>> fallacies.
>> Yes they are.  Using the reputation of someone to prove or disprove
>> their claims is a logical fallacy.
> 
> The trouble is, the bulk of statements Alf is calling ?ad hominem
> attack? are, if one actually reads them, a criticism of his person. Not
> intended as a connecting claim in an argument, but a claim *distinct
> from* the argument Alf is engaged in.

That's false. Happily anyone can check back, e.g. up-thread here.

Judging by the last few months the number of persons engaging in ad hominem 
attacks in this group is small, counted on one hand with possibly one finger 
from the other hand to help. They're very active. But happily, few.

However, in the other non-moderated groups I participate in the number of such 
persons is essentially *zero*, not counting sporadic visits from trolls.


> So they're *not intended* to prove or disprove the specific claims that
> immediately precede them. They're intended, at least partly, to provoke
> self-reflection on the part of the person criticised and, ideally, an
> improvement in behaviour.

And that's ad hominem, implying unacceptable behavior on my part, which if you 
could back up you'd cited.


> Failure to recognise a criticism as such, and instead repeatedly
> flinging the term ?ad hominem? around as though it has any bearing, is
> an example of behaviour that could easily be improved, if only the
> person engaging in it would stop.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 02:55:10 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:55:10 +0000
Subject: EAFP gone wrong
References: <m2zl3ixbrg.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.2256.1265757796.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2sk99y17l.fsf@googlemail.com>

Malte Helmert <helmert at informatik.uni-freiburg.de> writes:

> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>
>> This means that EAFP made me hide a typo which would have been obviously
>> detected had I LBYLed, i.e. instead of
>> 
>>     try:
>>         return val.latex()
>>     except AttributeError:
>>         ...
>> 
>> do
>> 
>>     if hasattr(val, 'latex'):
>>         return val.latex()
>>     else:
>>         ...
>> 
>> 
>> So was it wrong to say it's EAFP in this case?
>
> I would say that it's not really the EAFP concept that is problematic
> here, but rather that the try block encompasses more code than it
> should. Generally try blocks should be as narrow as possible, i.e., they
> should contain only the part where you really want to catch a potential
> failure.
>
> "return val.latex()" does two separate things that might fail: the
> lookup of val.latex, and the actual method call. If I understood you
> correctly, you only want to catch the AttributeError in the "val.latex"
> lookup here, and hence I'd say the "correct" application of EAFP here
> would be something like:
>
> try:
>     foo = val.latex
> except AttributeError:
>     ...
> else:
>     return foo()
>
> Whether that's any better than LBYL in this particular case is of course
> debatable -- one nice thing compared to your LBYL version is that it
> doesn't look up val.latex twice upon success. But you could also get
> that via the LBYLish:
>
> latex_method = getattr(val, "latex")
> if latex_method:
>     return latex_method()
> 

Ben, Malte,

Thanks for your informative replies.  I can now see where my blind spot
was and that I never really used EAFP properly before.  I think I will
go with one of the two solutions above (probably the second) as I feel
it's a bit heavy handed to create a closure and perhaps call it every
time the latex() function is called.

Matthew,

You are right.  Believe me I am fully aware of this.  To my shame I have
many thousands lines of Python without any tests in this project and I
don't even know where to start...

Thanks again,

-- 
Arnaud


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 03:13:22 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:13:22 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Stephen Hansen:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:08 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no 
> <mailto:alfps at start.no>> wrote:
> [abundant snips which do not accurately represent who said what where 
> due to my own laziness]
> 
>                     Not sure, but perhaps it's possible to mail directly
>                     to gmane?
> 
>                 Is there *any* problem you don't have a fatuous answer for?
> 
>             I thought the answer could help.
> 
>             You thought you cold do a bit of ad hominem attack.
> 
>             That's the difference between us.
> 
>         Well, the way I see it, you assumed you knew better than
>         Stephen, and
>         insisted on proposing a solution to a problem that he clearly
>         stated he
>         had no interest in.
> 
> 
>     You're going into motivations, that it seems to me that you're
>     projecting, saying that any helpful suggestion mean that one thinks
>     one knows better and implies a desire to demonstrate imagined
>     superiority.
> 
>     You're trying to portray a helping hand as a negative personal
>     characteristic of the helper.
> 
>     "the only reason that guy tries to help you is because he wishes to
>     show how superior he (thinks he) is".
> 
>     That's your style in a fair number of postings, and now here:
> 
>      * ad hominem attack,
> 
> 
> I am, frankly, tired of this.
> 
> Please stop this overly obsessive sensitivity towards what you think are 
> "ad hominem" attacks. Just drop it. Its worthless. It degrades you. Your 
> arguments are frequently nothing more then, "I define the world this way 
> and you do not disagree so I declare your argument invalid".

I'm happy that even though that may (with some low probability) be your actual 
opinion, it's incorrect.


> You've 
> dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of, 
> "That's invalid, cuz."

That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.


> The thing is, there was no basis for 'cuz' beyond 
> "In my own head this is what I think, this is how I'm defining words"

That's also a lie, and it's not a quote of me.

And just to be clear, as anyone can see by looking up-thread, generally, 
contrary to your claims, I give references for whatever that I suspect might be 
genuinely misunderstood.

And so I've done in (nearly) every article in the original thread, especially 
for the terms, and still people have posted articles apparently mis-interpreting 
those terms in very non-sensible ways  --  one gets tired of that, yes.


> The response of others to such arguments has been, "Do you /really/ need 
> to be so absolutely right in everything?!" which is said in frustration, 
> irritation and with deep sighing. 

It's true that that kind of insinuative arguments have been used in this group, yes.

It goes to alleged motives and alleged history instead of the technical, that 
is, it is a purely personal attack.

So, ironically, you're here citing one kind of hominem attack  --  not exactly 
clever when you're arguing that such does not occur.


> And then begins the loud declarations of ad hominem attacks. 
> 
> Its not productive. It doesn't help your case or arguments.
> 
> Its tired.
> 
> It doesn't make your case. It doesn't make anyone but you look bad. 
> Every time you go on about, "YOU ARE AD HOMINEM'N ME!", you just make 
> yourself look worse.
> 
> Yeah. People can be snarky in a community. Maybe... MAYBE... Steve 
> Holden is periodically a little snarky at you. It is not without reason. 
> And your declarations of his ad hominem attacks against you comes off as 
> nothing but base /whining/.
> 
> Just drop it. 
> 
> Its boring.
> 
> Also...
> 
>         I'm not quite sure, given that, what the point of the advice was.
> 
> 
>     There are many people who read just the Usenet group, e.g. via
>     Google groups.
> 
>     When you say you don't understand the point of the advice, you're
>     saying that
> 
>      * those people don't matter, and that
> 
>      * it doesn't matter whether they can read Stephen Hansen's articles.
> 
>     That's
> 
>      * slighting Stephen Hansen, and
> 
>      * showing off an extreme ego-centric view of the world,
> 
> 
> Please do NOT presume to take up my defense on ANY level.
> 
> I can handle myself, thank you. 

I do offer unsolicited help now and then, as I gave you and for which Steve 
Holden decided that a bit of personal attack would be suitable.

But my help was just as much in order to help others (who can't read your 
non-propagated articles) as in order to help you personally. That's the spirit 
of Usenet in many other groups. One just helps out, and often the reaction is a 
"thank you" instead of an ad hominem attack (as with Steve Holden) or, as in 
your case, faked quotes and general lies, which is border-line ad hominem.

Anyway, please stop post faked quotes and general lies, as you do above.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:27:24 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:27:24 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
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	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100027q377d902cp9578312c7dffe9cc@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> You've dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
>> "That's invalid, cuz."
>>
>
> That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.
>
>
>
>  The thing is, there was no basis for 'cuz' beyond "In my own head this is
>> what I think, this is how I'm defining words"
>>
>
> That's also a lie, and it's not a quote of me.
>


On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>
> Anyway, please stop post faked quotes and general lies, as you do above.


Wow. If that's your argument, I question your sanity.

None of the "quotes" were faked. None of the "quotes" were lies.

If a message were intended as an actual quotation of another's words, I'd
include actual citation. That a message is included in quotation-characters
does not make it an actual citation.

They are, quite obviously IMHO, paraphrased references to how I evaluate
your arguments.

The word "cuz" alone seems to make that very, very, very, very, very, very
obvious.

Get over yourself.

Seriously.

Quote marks don't make a quotation. If and when I choose to quote you, I
will quote you. You will see a line saying, as you see above, "On <date>,
Alf <etc> wrote:"

>
>> I can handle myself, thank you.
>>
>
> I do offer unsolicited help now and then, as I gave you and for which Steve
> Holden decided that a bit of personal attack would be suitable.
>
> But my help was just as much in order to help others (who can't read your
> non-propagated articles) as in order to help you personally. That's the
> spirit of Usenet in many other groups. One just helps out, and often the
> reaction is a "thank you" instead of an ad hominem attack (as with Steve
> Holden) or, as in your case, faked quotes and general lies, which is
> border-line ad hominem.
>

I reject the assistance of you-- or anyone else-- to make my voice heard.

You do not speak for me.

You will not speak for me.

I speak for myself, thank you. Do not presume to subjugate my voice by
defending it for your purposes.

Anyway, please stop post faked quotes and general lies, as you do above.


I didn't. You're nuts if you think I did.

--S
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From dickinsm at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:31:43 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:31:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<8281270.AG5xCW3FSB@beaureve.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <f7627dc3-0735-4e9f-bf8d-b83d1186cb63@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 6:47?pm, Martin Drautzburg <Martin.Drautzb... at web.de> wrote:
> BTW I am not really trying to add three objects, I wanted a third object
> which controls the way the addition is done. Sort of like "/" and "//"
> which are two different ways of doing division.

That seems like a reasonable use case for a third parameter to
__add__, though as others have pointed out the only way to pass the
third argument is to call __add__ explicitly.  Here's an extract from
the decimal module:

class Decimal(object):

    ...

    def __add__(self, other, context=None):
        other = _convert_other(other)
        if other is NotImplemented:
            return other

        if context is None:
            context = getcontext()

        <add 'self' and 'other' in context 'context'>

    ...

And here's how it's used in the decimal.Context module:

class Context(object):

    ...

    def add(self, a, b):
        """Return the sum of the two operands.

        >>> ExtendedContext.add(Decimal('12'), Decimal('7.00'))
        Decimal('19.00')
        >>> ExtendedContext.add(Decimal('1E+2'), Decimal('1.01E+4'))
        Decimal('1.02E+4')
        """
        return a.__add__(b, context=self)

--
Mark


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Feb 10 03:40:44 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:40:44 +0000
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hktred$utd$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/10/10 03:36, Tim Chase wrote:
> Larry Hudson wrote:
>> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>>
>> if 'mystring' not in s:
>> print 'not found'
>> else:
>> print 'foundit'
>> print 'processing'
>
> I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as Larry
> does, or as
>
> if 'mystring' in s
> print 'foundit'
> print 'processing'
> else:
> print 'not found'

<cut>
>
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?
>
I cases like this when aesthetics are not that much of a deal breaker, I 
usually put the condition which I think will be the true the majority of 
the time first.
This is not for performance reasons (never tested whether this has any 
effect) but more documentation like purpose to go from a most expected 
case to the least expected one. YMMV

-- 
mph


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:41:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:41:02 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002100027q377d902cp9578312c7dffe9cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
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	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
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Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100041n17dbdce4ycce5f9eb974b9940@mail.gmail.com>

>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>
>> I do offer unsolicited help now and then, as I gave you and for which
>>> Steve Holden decided that a bit of personal attack would be suitable.
>>
>>
Really, I do have to say.

It's one thing to say, "Aren't you being rude?" (please note, this is not an
actual quotation of any actual person, and I feel it is required I make this
disclaimer since you have shown you are unable to differentiate a statement
paraphrased in quotation marks from an actual quotation and citation of
another's words)

It's another thing entirely to decide on your own to be my champion and
choose to speak for me in my defense.

The former is someone offering unsolicited help; the latter I find more then
a little insulting.

--S
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From dickinsm at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:42:05 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:42:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Ternary plus
References: <1475043.2616QT5JLn@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<0265924b-3e3c-4c0a-8e0c-993d33b5d0bf@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<8281270.AG5xCW3FSB@beaureve.gmx.net>
	<f7627dc3-0735-4e9f-bf8d-b83d1186cb63@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <67d10050-7553-4c88-8dbb-f51c19cb2b5e@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 8:31?am, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> And here's how it's used in the decimal.Context module:

Aargh!  decimal.Context *class*, not module.

And it occurs to me that it would have been cleaner to have
Decimal.__add__ call Context.add rather than the other way around.
Then Decimal.__add__ could have stayed a two-argument function, as
<deity of your choice> intended.  Oh well.

--
Mark


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:58:37 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:58:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 11:01?am, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> KlausNeuner, 09.02.2010 10:04:
>
> > my program is supposed to parse files that I have created myself and that
> > are on my laptop. It is not supposed to interact with anybody else
> > than me.
>
> Famous last words.
>
> Stefan

All right, I admit that eval() is evil and should never be used. Under
no circumstances. (Which is, of course, the reason, why Python has
eval().) The same applies to knives. You shouldn't use them. You
shouldn't even use them in your own kitchen. A man might enter your
kitchen, take your knife away and use it against you.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 10 04:28:20 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:28:20 +0100
Subject: Programing family
In-Reply-To: <00fb7592$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002081739u6d76e401le64ec2d69e4d9790@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2236.1265732025.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b719209$0$10071$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<00fb7592$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4b727c27$0$10168$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:49:21 +0100, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>> Not that much C++ in Python, IMHO. If that's for the OO part, then the
>> closer to Python's object model I can think of is javascript.
> 
> I thought that Javascript didn't even have inheritance until recently? 

If you mean "class inheritance", it's obviously not something you'd 
expect to find in a prototype based language. But inheritance works with 
prototypes too.



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 10 04:45:37 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:45:37 +0100
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
Message-ID: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:

> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
> 'picture' format?
> 
> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
> transformation myself?

A basic implementation without regular expressions:

>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
...     parts = pic.split(placeholder)
...     result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
...     result[::2] = parts
...     result[1::2] = s
...     return "".join(result)
...
>>>
>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
'(123)-45-(678)[9]'

Peter


From nad at acm.org  Wed Feb 10 05:11:59 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:11:59 -0800
Subject: mac install
References: <a73f2cb2-d748-4ddb-a84a-ff2e6d14149f@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-AE0B27.02115810022010@news.gmane.org>

In article 
<a73f2cb2-d748-4ddb-a84a-ff2e6d14149f at z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
 Thomas Nelson <thomasharrisonnelson at gmail.com> wrote:

> I downloaded the 3.1.1 dmg from http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.1.1/
> but when I run it I get the error "The folowing install step failed:
> run postflight script for python documentation."  The bugs list has
> this bug at http://bugs.python.org/issue6934 but it's described as
> fixed.  Is it only fixed for the source version?  Where should I go to
> install?

Unfortunately, there hasn't been a release of Python 3.1 since 3.1.1.  
On the other hand, the problem isn't critical: it only prevents the 
installation from creating the .pyc compiled byte-code files for the 
python files in the standard library.  Python 3.1.1 should run just 
fine, albeit sometimes a bit slower, without them.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From quindennis at grandecom.net  Wed Feb 10 05:21:44 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:21:44 -0600
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

Well, PyScripter works find with that code.  Furthermore, the 
un-intellisense in IronPython was problematic, inserting the wrong things, 
which I had to erase.

Also, there were some code constructs IronPython let pass that PyScripter 
didn't, namely, print(), PyScripter requires the ()

Something simple, like:
 n = -1
 if n <> -1:
     print('fell through')

falls through to the print.

So, I don't know what the problem is with IronPython, perhaps it isn't 
compatible with Python v3, but on my machine, at least, it doesn't perform.

"Steve Holden" <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Quin wrote:
>> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching
>> to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>>
> I'd be very surprised to find that something as basic as this was wrong
> with IronPython. Complex commercial software has been built on it, so
> there's little question that the platform is sound.
>
> Are you *sure* you copied and pasted the session you listed?
>
> regards
> Steve
>
>> "Larry Hudson" <orgnut at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d at giganews.com...
>>> Quin wrote:
>>>> s = f.readline()
>>>> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
>>>> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
>>>> if 'mystring' in s:
>>>>    print 'processing'
>>>>
>>>> this generates output:
>>>> not found
>>>> processing
>>>>
>>>> so, it doesn't find the substring, but goes into processing code 
>>>> anyway.
>>>>
>>>> This is using IronPython
>>>
>>> As others have already said, this _does_ work properly.
>>>
>>> But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>>>
>>> if 'mystring' not in s:
>>>     print 'not found'
>>> else:
>>>     print 'foundit'
>>>     print 'processing'
>>>
>>>      -=- Larry -=-
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/
> 



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 05:22:12 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:22:12 +0100
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <4B7288D4.8010704@sequans.com>

Quin wrote:
> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm 
> switching to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>
>
I'm willing to bet money that it is not. If ironPython had a broken if 
statement, don't you think we would have known, already ?

There's a rule when test writing/testing code:
"if you think the compiler is wrong, then you are wrong twice."

JM


From quindennis at grandecom.net  Wed Feb 10 05:23:43 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:23:43 -0600
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

Well, now you know!

"Jean-Michel Pichavant" <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Quin wrote:
>> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm switching 
>> to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>>
>>
> I'm willing to bet money that it is not. If ironPython had a broken if 
> statement, don't you think we would have known, already ?
>
> There's a rule when test writing/testing code:
> "if you think the compiler is wrong, then you are wrong twice."
>
> JM 



From olof.bjarnason at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 05:50:45 2010
From: olof.bjarnason at gmail.com (Olof Bjarnason)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:50:45 +0100
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c3dfe1d1002100250x56a7f081v5a02d7182d89b5c0@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/10 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>:
> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>
>> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
>> 'picture' format?
>>
>> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
>> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
>> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
>> transformation myself?
>
> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>
>>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
> ... ? ? parts = pic.split(placeholder)
> ... ? ? result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
> ... ? ? result[::2] = parts
> ... ? ? result[1::2] = s
> ... ? ? return "".join(result)
> ...
>>>>
>>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>
> Peter
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Inspired by your answer here's another version:

>>> def picture(s, pic):
...   if len(s)==0: return pic
...   if pic[0]=='#': return s[0]+picture(s[1:], pic[1:])
...   return pic[0]+picture(s, pic[1:])
...
>>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
'(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>>>

-- 
http://olofb.wordpress.com


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 05:53:46 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:53:46 +0100
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <4B72903A.1030404@sequans.com>

Quin wrote:
> Well, now you know!
>
> "Jean-Michel Pichavant" <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote in message 
> news:mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list at python.org...
>> Quin wrote:
>>> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm 
>>> switching to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>>>
>>>
>> I'm willing to bet money that it is not. If ironPython had a broken 
>> if statement, don't you think we would have known, already ?
>>
>> There's a rule when test writing/testing code:
>> "if you think the compiler is wrong, then you are wrong twice."
>>
>> JM 
>

All I know is that you are using a python implementation that does not 
support python 3. No wonder why your py3 code fails.

Please do not top post.

JM


    IronPython

    * Stable Version is 2.0.3 (targeting Python 2.5)
    * Developers Version is 2.6 Beta 3 (targeting Python 2.6)



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 06:06:37 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:06:37 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002100306o4c0b9962n86e151b15bb7322e@mail.gmail.com>

>> All algorithms in obfuscate are obsolete, insecure and only
>> interesting for people *that* want to get well educated in the history
>> of encryption.
>
> Not true. Another use case is suggested by the chosen name for the
> library: to obfuscate text against casual human reading, while not
> making it at all difficult to decrypt by people who are motivated to do
> so.
>
> The classic example is rot-13 encryption of text in internet messages;
> it would be a failure of imagination to suggest there are not other,
> similar use cases.

I fully agree. Judging by the posts on c.l.p the need for simple
obfuscation regularly comes up. I also posted something not so long
ago and got all sorts of useful advice, a package here, a module
there, etc. It also turned out that everybody mostly writes his/her
own obfuscation routine. That is why I suggested that perhaps if the
code base stabilizes an inclusion into the stdlib could be discussed.
I'm not sure it really needs to go there but if it turns out that as
many people need this kind of stuff as I imagine it, well, then we
have enough use cases for sure.

>> Grab pycrypto, m2crypto or one of the other packages if you need a
>> minimum amount of security.
>
> Agreed. However, for cases that *don't* need security from determined
> attackers, I don't think those obviate the usefulness of this library.

Exactly.

Cheers,
Daniel




-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Feb 10 06:12:26 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:12:26 +0000
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
In-Reply-To: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002100312j39c775ddi736af6693e1e2549@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 February 2010 03:36, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?

There are two criteria that I use here. I'll often tend towards the
positive test; it's just that little bit easier to comprehend, I
think. On the other hand, if one case is overwhelmingly more common,
I'll usually put that first even if it does mean using a negative
test.

I'm not buying the short-case-first argument. If the code in a case
block is long enough for that to matter, it really belongs in a
function of its own anyway.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Feb 10 06:23:01 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:23:01 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002100323v1650769dob3d0411a0c5b08c8@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 February 2010 01:24, Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> The classic example is rot-13 encryption of text in internet messages;
> it would be a failure of imagination to suggest there are not other,
> similar use cases.

That's built-in:

>>> "Hello World!".encode('rot-13')
'Uryyb Jbeyq!'

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Feb 10 06:27:48 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:27:48 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c61002100323v1650769dob3d0411a0c5b08c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<8c7f10c61002100323v1650769dob3d0411a0c5b08c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B729834.7050606@timgolden.me.uk>

On 10/02/2010 11:23, Simon Brunning wrote:
> "Hello World!".encode('rot-13')

Not any more!

<dump>
Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009,
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or
>>> "Hello World!".encode('rot-13')
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
LookupError: unknown encoding: rot-13
>>>


</dump>

TJG


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 06:45:47 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:45:47 +0100
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Olof Bjarnason:
> 2010/2/10 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>:
>> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>>
>>> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
>>> 'picture' format?
>>>
>>> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
>>> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
>>> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
>>> transformation myself?
>> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>>
>>>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
>> ...     parts = pic.split(placeholder)
>> ...     result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
>> ...     result[::2] = parts
>> ...     result[1::2] = s
>> ...     return "".join(result)
>> ...
>>>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>>
>> Peter
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> Inspired by your answer here's another version:
> 
>>>> def picture(s, pic):
> ...   if len(s)==0: return pic
> ...   if pic[0]=='#': return s[0]+picture(s[1:], pic[1:])
> ...   return pic[0]+picture(s, pic[1:])
> ...
>>>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'

I learned a bit by Peter Otten's example; I would have gotten to that notation 
sooner or later, but that example made it 'sooner' :-).

I think your version is cute.

I'd probably write it in a non-recursive way, though, like

     def picture( s, pic, placeholder = "@" ):
         result = ""
         char_iter = iter( s )
         for c in pic:
             result += c if c != placeholder else next( char_iter )
         return result

Of course this is mostly personal preference, but there is also a functional 
difference.

With your version an IndexError will be raised if there are too /many/ 
characters in s, while too few characters in s will yield "#" in the result.

With my version a StopIteration will be raised if there are to /few/ characters 
in s, while too many characters will just have the extraneous chars ignored.


Cheers,

- Alf


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 10 06:55:44 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:55:44 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b729eb2$0$18397$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Klaus Neuner a ?crit :
> 
> All right, I admit that eval() is evil and should never be used.

Can you tell the difference between your above statement and the following:

"""
eval() is potentially dangerous and can make code harder to debug. 99% 
of the proposed use case for eval() are covered by simpler, less 
dangerous and easier to understand solutions, so the GoodPractice(tm) is 
to favor these solutions and only use eval() - with appropriate care - 
for the remaining 1% _real_ use case.
"""

If you can't tell the difference, then you're about as (im)mature as my 
13 year old son and it might eventually be time to grow up.

> The same applies to knives. You shouldn't use them. You
> shouldn't even use them in your own kitchen. A man might enter your
> kitchen, take your knife away and use it against you.

Knives - specially the kind I use in my kitchen - are indeed potentially 
dangerous, and I indeed had to educate my son so he wouldn't do anything 
stupid with them - like pointing a knife at someone, running across the 
house with a knife in his hand, or using them instead of a more 
appropriate tool.

The probability that someone will enter your kitchen and use one of your 
knives against you, while not null, are low enough to be ignored IMHO. I 
whish I could say the same about script kiddies or more educated (and 
dangerous) bad guys trying to attack our servers.

But you obviously never had to neither fix a compromised server nor 
raise a kid - else you'd now better. Hopefully you didn't raise my kid - 
now I just pray none of your code will ever run on our servers.


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Feb 10 06:59:40 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:59:40 +0000
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>	<CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hku73d$mjm$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/10/10 10:53, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Quin wrote:
>> Well, now you know!
>>
<cut>
>
> All I know is that you are using a python implementation that does not
> support python 3. No wonder why your py3 code fails.
>
<cut>
You knew you known, you know :-)

-- 
mph


From snarks at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 07:24:36 2010
From: snarks at gmail.com (Phil Hibbs)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:24:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Generic spreadsheet interface
Message-ID: <3acdf3a7-e2eb-4a9a-bc89-7e285073a9c9@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

I've currently got an Excel spreadsheet with loads of VBA, and I've
been thinking of porting it to OpenOffice.org. "This is a Python
list!" I hear you cry, but bear with me - rather than just re-writing
all the VBA code in OOo script, I thought, "why not make it generic -
so it can work with Excel or OOo?" - then I thought of Python. Python
can interface with both, but the specifics of how to interface with
each are very different. What would be nice is a generic wrapper class
that can work with either. Has anyone come across anything like that?

Phil Hibbs.


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 07:28:02 2010
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:28:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<11ef42cc-dc97-4f2e-8d6b-88cbe1abed8b@v37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.1845.1265223526.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ab60fd79-940e-41b2-b527-444434477150@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b852169a-6c34-44ea-8300-1d467fd7c1aa@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 3, 7:38?pm, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:57?am, Adam Tauno Williams <awill... at opengroupware.us>
> wrote:
>
> > > Current editors suck because they can't see into the code and browse
> > > it - unless it's so statically typed it's painful.
>
> > ? ?I edit Python in MonoDevelop ?2.2; ?and I can browse my file,
> > classes, etc... ?So I don't know what you mean by "can't see into the
> > code". ?It works pretty well.
>
> > Of course it can't tell that I've set x = {an integer}, as that only
> > happens at runtime.
>
> > > That's why I wrote this:
> > >http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2008/05/dynamic_languages_vs_ed...
>
> You just said that your code browsing "works pretty well, except when
> it doesn't".
>
> Hence my blog entry. If your editor analyzed your code at runtime,
> instead of just static analysis, then it could see that x = an
> integer, or an object, no matter how dynamic your language.
>

The Wingware Wing IDE has an integrated debugger. The IDE does type
inferencing through static analysis to provide autocomplete and code
navigation features. If you run the code under the debugger it will
also use 'actual' type information to augment the static analysis.

Michael Foord

--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


From mailings at julianmoritz.de  Wed Feb 10 07:40:39 2010
From: mailings at julianmoritz.de (Julian)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:40:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B6B5E72.20702@stoneleaf.us>
	<mailman.1988.1265390916.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<037c8d60$0$1292$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2170.1265648842.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<pan.2010.02.09.01.31.36@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <aedc832d-fab0-44c0-a110-f46af68d6f3f@w16g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

hello there,

thanks everyone for that many answers! I'm lying in bed with a bad
cold, so I'll get through all the posts on the weekend.

regards
Julian


From olof.bjarnason at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 07:46:31 2010
From: olof.bjarnason at gmail.com (Olof Bjarnason)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:46:31 +0100
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/10 Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no>:
> * Olof Bjarnason:
>>
>> 2010/2/10 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>:
>>>
>>> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
>>>> 'picture' format?
>>>>
>>>> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
>>>> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
>>>> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
>>>> transformation myself?
>>>
>>> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>>>
>>>>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
>>>
>>> ... ? ? parts = pic.split(placeholder)
>>> ... ? ? result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
>>> ... ? ? result[::2] = parts
>>> ... ? ? result[1::2] = s
>>> ... ? ? return "".join(result)
>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>>>
>>> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>> Inspired by your answer here's another version:
>>
>>>>> def picture(s, pic):
>>
>> ... ? if len(s)==0: return pic
>> ... ? if pic[0]=='#': return s[0]+picture(s[1:], pic[1:])
>> ... ? return pic[0]+picture(s, pic[1:])
>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
>>
>> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>
> I learned a bit by Peter Otten's example; I would have gotten to that
> notation sooner or later, but that example made it 'sooner' :-).
>
> I think your version is cute.

Thanks!

Here's another version (maybe a little more readable?):

def first(s): return s[0]

def rest(s): return s[1:]

def picture(s, pic):
  if not s: return pic
  if first(pic)=='#': return first(s)+picture(rest(s), rest(pic))
  return first(pic)+picture(s, rest(pic))


>
> I'd probably write it in a non-recursive way, though, like
>
> ? ?def picture( s, pic, placeholder = "@" ):
> ? ? ? ?result = ""
> ? ? ? ?char_iter = iter( s )
> ? ? ? ?for c in pic:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?result += c if c != placeholder else next( char_iter )
> ? ? ? ?return result
>
> Of course this is mostly personal preference, but there is also a functional
> difference.
>
> With your version an IndexError will be raised if there are too /many/
> characters in s, while too few characters in s will yield "#" in the result.
>
> With my version a StopIteration will be raised if there are to /few/
> characters in s, while too many characters will just have the extraneous
> chars ignored.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
http://olofb.wordpress.com


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:24:33 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:24:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<4b729eb2$0$18397$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <b562f060-51fb-4968-9f70-8ae19af9ca6a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 12:55?pm, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> KlausNeunera ?crit :
>
>
>
> > All right, I admit that eval() is evil and should never be used.
>
> Can you tell the difference between your above statement and the following:

As already pointed out in my second post (though perhaps not
explicitly enough), I like the getattr-stuff better than eval(). That
is why I will not use eval(). I don't have a reason to use eval(). All
I wanted to say is this: If there are no circumstances at all under
which eval() can reasonably be used, then it should not be part of
Python. As it is part of Python (and as Python is a carefully designed
language), there will most probably some situations in which one might
want to use it.




From almar.klein at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:29:42 2010
From: almar.klein at gmail.com (Almar Klein)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:29:42 +0100
Subject: ANN: visvis v1.1
Message-ID: <cc38d75f1002100529i28f7318an6d614641df01fc5b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am pleased to announce version 1.1 of visvis, a Python
visualization library for of 1D to 4D data.

Website: http://code.google.com/p/visvis/
Discussion group: http://groups.google.com/group/visvis/
Documentation: http://code.google.com/p/visvis/wiki/Visvis_basics

=== Description ===

Visvis is a pure Python visualization library that uses OpenGl to
display 1D to 4D data; it can be used from simple plotting tasks to
rendering 3D volumetric data that moves in time.

Visvis can be used in Python scripts, interactive Python sessions (as
with IPython) and can be embedded in applications.

Visvis employs an object oriented structure; each object being
visualized (e.g. a line or a texture) has various properties that can
be modified to change its behavior or appearance. A Matlab-like
interface in the form of a set of functions allows easy creation of
these objects (e.g. plot(), imshow(), volshow()).

=== Changes ===
A complete list can be found at
http://code.google.com/p/visvis/wiki/releaseNotes.

- Colormaps are now supported for texture objects. A colorbar and
colormapEditor wibject are also available.
- The performance of rendering 3D volumes has significantly improved. A new
shader (raycast) is also available).
- Fonts are rendered more smoothly and faster.
- Data for textures is automatically padded to a factor two if necessary,
and down-sampled if too large to fit in OpenGl memory.
- Visvis now works for any OpenGl version from OpenGl 1.1 (some features
might not be supported for lower versions though).

Regards,
  Almar
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From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb 10 08:37:22 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2245.1265739811.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2282.1265790273.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 2:24?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:45:38 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
> <inva... at invalid.invalid> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Doesn't work. ?datetime.datetime.now has granularity of
> > 15-16ms.
>
> > Intervals much less that that often come back with a delta of
> > 0. ?A delay of 20ms produces a delta of either 15-16ms or
> > 31-32ms
>
> ? ? ? ? WinXP uses an ~15ms time quantum for task switching. Which defines
> the step rate of the wall clock output...
>
> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/35546579/the-quantum-was-n...http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/32823760/how-do-you-set-ti...
>
> http://www.lochan.org/2005/keith-cl/useful/win32time.html
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Gabriel Genellina reports that time.clock() uses Windows'
QueryPerformanceCounter() API, which has much higher resolution than
the task switcher's 15ms.  QueryPerformanceCounter's resolution is
hardware-dependent; using the Win API, and a little test program, I
get this value on my machine:
Frequency is 3579545 ticks/sec
Resolution is 0.279365114840015 microsecond/tick

-- Paul


From roy at panix.com  Wed Feb 10 08:38:18 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:38:18 -0500
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-AE820D.08381810022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list at python.org>,
 Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:

> Larry Hudson wrote:
> > But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
> > 
> > if 'mystring' not in s:
> >      print 'not found'
> > else:
> >      print 'foundit'
> >      print 'processing'
> 
> I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as 
> Larry does, or as
> 
>    if 'mystring' in s
>      print 'foundit'
>      print 'processing'
>    else:
>      print 'not found'
> 
> removing the "not" from the condition.  I admit I choose one over 
> the other based on some gut-feeling aesthetic that I can't really 
> nail down.  I think one of my major influencing factors revolves 
> around the negative "not" portion having one or two lines and the 
>   positive portion having a large block of code.  If the 
> code-blocks are more equal in size, I tend to use "if 
> {positive}", but if the negative "not" section is only 1-2 lines, 
> I tend to do as Larry writes and make it harder to miss by using 
> "if {negative}".  Otherwise the "if {positive}...else" can end up 
> sufficiently distant from the "if" that it's easy to miss.
> 
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?
> 
> -tkc

In general, I try to avoid negation, because it makes things harder to 
understand.  When you write:

if not foo:
   blah
else:
   blah-blah

the else clause is executed if "not foo is not true".  That quickly gets 
confusing.

As for the code blocks being so large that the else becomes distant from 
the condition, that smells like the two codeblocks want to be refactored 
into distinct functions:

if foo:
   do_one_thing()
else:
   do_something_else()

It's not always practical, but my first reaction would be to try that and 
see if it works.


From catonano at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:45:49 2010
From: catonano at gmail.com (catonano)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:45:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Vladimir,

On Feb 3, 12:10?pm, Vladimir Ignatov <kmis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am sitting here for quite some time, but usually keep silent ;-) I


> Finally I develop a feeling that strong instrumentation / tools can
> bring us the best of two worlds. That I am dreaming on is an absolute
> new type/class of IDE suitable for Python and potentially for other
> dynamic-type languages. Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric and resemble current CAD systems instead
> of being just "fancy text editor". Source text should be an output
> product of that CAD and not a "source material" itself.

I don't know CAD systems, but I want to share my comments about this.

I self learned to program with Squeak Smalltalk at 17. Later, I worked
with VisualAge for Java, that was a Smalltalk IDE applied to Java.

Now, I can tell you that in Smalltalk IDEs the code is not written in
files. It's stored in a thing called "image".

You have these frames, in the first frame you have the classes, in the
second frame you have the child classes and in the third frame you
have the methods of the child class you selected.

A bigger frame showed the code of the single method you had selected.

You modified the method, hit ctrl-s and it was COMPILED and saved in
the image.

You had a frame in which you could interactively call your objects,
some of them represented things that were "showable" on the monitor
and you could see these things pop up as you instantiated them.

Then, you had some specialized browsers in which you could search, for
example, all the places a method was called in (a thing I have
difficulties with, in python, today)

VisualAge had its own management version system such that EVERY TIME I
saved a method, it became a VERSION and there was a specialized
browser for browsing the versions (the image tended to grow, that's
it) while the regular browser defaulted on the last version and there
was a tool for freezing a version as a milestone.


Today, I tried to understand the twisted.web.client code and I found 3
methods I couldn't find by who were called.

I asked on the mailing list and they suggested me where they were
called and that the tool for such thing is "grep".

So, you grep, you get a list of files, you open each one of them and
keep scrolling and switching from one file to another... endlessly.
Maybe I'm getting old, but I tend to get lost in the process.

I can't believe the code editing situation today is in a such sorry
state.

Is this what you meant ?

If it's this, then it's not experimental at all, it's been done
already and been put apart.

Crap won :-(

You write:

> Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
> should be a database-centric

well, it seems you agree with Alan Kay, (the Smalltalk inventor) when
he wrote that programming is NOT glorified text editing.

He called it "direct manipulation" every method was a live thing you
could send messages to and the source code that implemented it was
just an attribute of the method.

So you could have had a World Of Warcraft like interface, to
manipulate your methods.

You know what I'm doing now ? I'm drawing the map of
twisted.web.client on a paper with a pencil :-(

Bye
Catonano


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 10 08:51:19 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:51:19 +0100
Subject: use strings to call functions
In-Reply-To: <b562f060-51fb-4968-9f70-8ae19af9ca6a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<4b729eb2$0$18397$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<b562f060-51fb-4968-9f70-8ae19af9ca6a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b72b9c8$0$8274$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Klaus Neuner a ?crit :
> On Feb 10, 12:55 pm, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
> 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> KlausNeunera ?crit :
>>
>>
>>
>>> All right, I admit that eval() is evil and should never be used.
>> Can you tell the difference between your above statement and the following:
> 
> As already pointed out in my second post (though perhaps not
> explicitly enough),

Or perhaps is it me that failed to re-read a bit more of the thread 
before answering - I obviously missed the irony (and made an a... of 
myself), sorry :-/

> All
> I wanted to say is this: If there are no circumstances at all under
> which eval() can reasonably be used, then it should not be part of
> Python. As it is part of Python (and as Python is a carefully designed
> language), there will most probably some situations in which one might
> want to use it.

Indeed.




From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 08:56:03 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 13:56:03 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:

>> In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
>> (and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
>> objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
>> address. Try comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers
>> and you'll cause a lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the
>> id() value is in some way related to an address.
> 
> Did you /read/ what you quoted?
> 
> 
>> Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's
>> nothing in the Python specification which prevents a Python
>> implementation doing the same for small integers, in fact I believe
>> it has been tried but wasn't found to improve performance.
> 
> All theree of your points about Python are wrong; I don't know about
> the Ruby point. 

Would you care to expand upon your claim that my three points about Python 
are wrong? Are you saying that CPyhton objects move around, or that 
IronPython objects are fixed to a single memory location or that their id 
is related to their address? Clue here:

IronPython 2.6 (2.6.10920.0) on .NET 2.0.50727.3082
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> x = 42
>>> id(x)
43
>>> y = 43
>>> id(y)
44
>>> z = "whatever"
>>> id(z)
45

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From quindennis at grandecom.net  Wed Feb 10 08:59:19 2010
From: quindennis at grandecom.net (Quin)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:59:19 -0600
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org><CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <INednX2_V6wnJu_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>

You know, Jack, that was the point of my original post: to determine why 
things weren't working.  Do you still want to bet money that it is?  I can 
screenshot you TD.


"Jean-Michel Pichavant" <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list at python.org...
> Quin wrote:
>> Well, now you know!
>>
>> "Jean-Michel Pichavant" <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote in message 
>> news:mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list at python.org...
>>> Quin wrote:
>>>> Thanks guys, I'm thinking it's a problem with IronPython.  I'm 
>>>> switching to PyScripter and will test tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I'm willing to bet money that it is not. If ironPython had a broken if 
>>> statement, don't you think we would have known, already ?
>>>
>>> There's a rule when test writing/testing code:
>>> "if you think the compiler is wrong, then you are wrong twice."
>>>
>>> JM
>>
>
> All I know is that you are using a python implementation that does not 
> support python 3. No wonder why your py3 code fails.
>
> Please do not top post.
>
> JM
>
>
>    IronPython
>
>    * Stable Version is 2.0.3 (targeting Python 2.5)
>    * Developers Version is 2.6 Beta 3 (targeting Python 2.6)
> 



From malkarouri at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 08:59:41 2010
From: malkarouri at gmail.com (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Function attributes
Message-ID: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
inside it, other than using its explicit name?
In a function like f below:

def f(*args):
    f.args = args
    print args

is there any other way?
I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a
valid one at the moment, sorry.

Regards,

Muhammad Alkarouri


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 09:16:46 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 14:16:46 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:13:22 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> You've
>> dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
>> "That's invalid, cuz."
> 
> That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.

Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I 
understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native 
English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are sometimes 
ambiguous in English.

While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a 
direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a 
paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us now.)

Unfortunately, this means that in informal discussions like this it is 
sometimes difficult to distinguish a direct quote from a paraphrase, 
except by context. In context, as a native speaker, I can assure you that 
Stephen Hansen's use of quotation marks is a paraphrase and not meant to 
be read as a direct quote.

As a paraphrase, it's not a *lie* -- it should be read as Stephen's 
*opinion* of your actions, not a direct quote. Stephen might, or might 
not, be *mistaken*, but it's unlikely he's actively lying. Arguing 
pedantically that you didn't write those exact words won't win you any 
friends or supporters.

You can choose to defend yourself against a gross misrepresentation of 
what you actually said; or you can accept that it captures the spirit 
(but not the letter) of your words; or you can choose a middle position, 
and accept that even if it is not a 100% accurate representation of your 
statements, perhaps it is 90% accurate, or 10%, or 50%. The exact amount 
doesn't really matter, and will be subjective, and frankly I don't care. 
But whatever degree you choose to accept, it is obvious that a number of 
people are not just being annoyed by your behaviour, but they are annoyed 
enough to publicly chastise you for it. That includes Steve Holden, who 
is usually far more even-tempered than (e.g.) me.

Without necessarily suggesting that you are 100% to blame for the 
antagonism, its unlikely that so many disparate individuals are all 100% 
mistaken. As you say, the public record is there for anyone who wishes to 
read the history.

Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to argue 
with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.



-- 
Steven


From waku at idi.ntnu.no  Wed Feb 10 09:33:50 2010
From: waku at idi.ntnu.no (waku)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:33:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<b35471ed-00a9-4334-811f-8933919c9050@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <636ee042-7411-4867-970c-96250c06498d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 10:41?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 9, 1:51?am, waku <w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>
> > 'stupid', 'wrong', 'deficient', 'terrible', ... ?you're using strong
> > words instead of concrete arguments, it might intimidate your
> > opponents, but is hardly helpful in a fair discussion.
>
> In today's day and age, I don't know how a text editor which cannot do
> simple indentation can be considered anything but "stupid", "wrong",
> "deficient", and "terrible". There is simply no excuse for this kind
> of behavior on the part of the text editor.

i thought we were not discussing text editors, why should you insist
so much on diverting attention from the issue of a programmer being
*forced* to keep perfect indentation to the issue of an editor doing
autoindent or the like.

>
> I mean, how long has vi had the auto indent feature? How many decades
> has emacs supported the same? This isn't new technology, or difficult
> technology to implement. It's not even non-standard anymore. Heck, far
> more advanced features, such as syntax highlighting, are standard in
> all text editors.

wow!  and then, back to the issue of enforced indentation in python?


> Your problem is you're using something like Windows Notepad to edit
> your code.

thin ice!  you haven't got the faintest idea of what i use to edit my
code, do you.


Windows Notepad is a terrible tool for writing anything,
> let alone writing code. Why in the world would any programming
> language adapt itself to the mental deficiencies of Windows Notepad? I
> mean, if you were an artist, would you use MS Paint to do anything
> serious? If you did, would you complain that the art world has a
> problem because they don't accept your paintings?
>
> I strongly suggest you download one of the *hundreds* of free text
> editors available for the Windows platform that give you the
> indentation features you so sorely lack. I suggest ViM, though it has
> a steep learning curve.

listen to what people say before responding, and stop showing off.
again, you haven't used a single reasonable argument here.

vQ



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 10 09:35:57 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:35:57 +0100
Subject: New to Python
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<INednX2_V6wnJu_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <hkug84$86b$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Quin wrote:

> You know, Jack, that was the point of my original post: to determine why
> things weren't working.  Do you still want to bet money that it is?  I can
> screenshot you TD.

You haven't posted the complete script, and you haven't given a thorough 
description how you invoke that script.

To help us find an explanation for your problem and a possible fix please 
make the script as small as you can while preserving its very strange 
behaviour, open a DOS window and invoke the Ironpython interpreter manually 
on the command line. 

Finally copy and paste the output and the complete script and post it here 
again.

Peter


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 09:36:32 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 14:36:32 GMT
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a function like f
> below:
> 
> def f(*args):
>     f.args = args
>     print args
> 
> is there any other way?

Not built-in.


> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a valid
> one at the moment, sorry.

I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only able to 
refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break. 
Consider:

old_f = f  # save the old version of the function

def f(x):
    return old_f(x+1)  # make a new function and call it f

This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself 
under the name "f", and things break very quickly.





-- 
Steven


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 09:46:00 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:46:00 +0100
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002100646k557abc9dm73212357d2d3dad3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Muhammad Alkarouri
<malkarouri at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> inside it, other than using its explicit name?
> In a function like f below:
>
> def f(*args):
> ? ?f.args = args
> ? ?print args
>
> is there any other way?
> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a
> valid one at the moment, sorry.
>
> Regards,
>
> Muhammad Alkarouri
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

This sounds like something you shouldn't be doing. You should probably
use a class instead.

(Sending again to get it on the list >_<)


From klausneuner72 at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 09:49:37 2010
From: klausneuner72 at googlemail.com (Klaus Neuner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:49:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: use strings to call functions
References: <134f2422-7a28-4188-afa3-9fefa9c09059@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0efe23a6-b16d-4f92-8bc0-12d056bf599d@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<hkpvl3$76f$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2185.1265680230.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<cf33d21f-0e05-4fd0-9f51-b1a4ef73556c@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<77799a8f-da82-4e78-896e-10ebc018b129@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b713260$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<9601ab59-87f2-4f39-9c7e-0efb5e6398e6@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
	<4b729eb2$0$18397$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<b562f060-51fb-4968-9f70-8ae19af9ca6a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b72b9c8$0$8274$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <e3a6aa81-514e-465b-97db-7e7fee51a96e@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

> Or perhaps is it me that failed to re-read a bit more of the thread
> before answering - I obviously missed the irony (and made an a... of
> myself), sorry :-/

There is nothing to be sorry about. I am grateful to all participants
of this thread. I know a lot more about Python than before.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 09:51:11 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:51:11 -0500
Subject: Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <636ee042-7411-4867-970c-96250c06498d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<b35471ed-00a9-4334-811f-8933919c9050@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<636ee042-7411-4867-970c-96250c06498d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkuh8u$7c0$1@ger.gmane.org>

waku wrote:
> On Feb 9, 10:41 pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> wrote:
>> On Feb 9, 1:51 am, waku <w... at idi.ntnu.no> wrote:
>>
>>> 'stupid', 'wrong', 'deficient', 'terrible', ...  you're using strong
>>> words instead of concrete arguments, it might intimidate your
>>> opponents, but is hardly helpful in a fair discussion.
>> In today's day and age, I don't know how a text editor which cannot do
>> simple indentation can be considered anything but "stupid", "wrong",
>> "deficient", and "terrible". There is simply no excuse for this kind
>> of behavior on the part of the text editor.
> 
> i thought we were not discussing text editors, why should you insist
> so much on diverting attention from the issue of a programmer being
> *forced* to keep perfect indentation to the issue of an editor doing
> autoindent or the like.
> 
It's as sensible to complain about people being "*forced* to keep
perfect indentation" as it is to complain about people being *forced* to
use braces to delimit code blocks.

This is called "syntax", and it's a part of the language, so get over it
- this aspect of Python has been present in the language since its
inception, and it isn't going to change.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 09:54:37 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:54:37 +0100
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <INednX2_V6wnJu_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2286.1265797348.28905.python-list@python.org><CMGdnf_ivoavFO_WnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2288.1265799238.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<INednX2_V6wnJu_WnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <4B72C8AD.2060203@sequans.com>

Quin wrote:
> You know, Jack, that was the point of my original post: to determine 
> why things weren't working.  Do you still want to bet money that it 
> is?  I can screenshot you TD.
>
Another flaming war starting...

IronPython implements python 2.5 and you're still complaining about your 
py3 code not working.
Try your code in a ruby shell, and tell the ruby community that their 
intepreter cannot even handle an if statement. Feel free to put my mail 
address in cc.

So to be clear, IronPython can properly handle if statements. I'll bet 
all your money on that.

Jack


From visiblelight at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 09:59:54 2010
From: visiblelight at gmail.com (Vision)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:59:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: looking for some libraries
Message-ID: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
I am doing some stuffs with some software, which has similar layout
like this:
Editbox________1
Editbox________2
Editbox________3
       _OK_
_______________
|        output        |
|        output        |
|        output        |
|        output        |
|        output        |
--------------------------
What I need to do is to fill the edit boxes, then press the OK button,
then I will get some output text below.
This is tedious since I have lots of entries to deal with.
So I am trying to write some scripts to handle this. And I wonder if
there is any library available for me to simplify the process?
Thanks!


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 10 10:08:47 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:08:47 -0500
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>

On 2/10/2010 9:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
>> inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a function like f
>> below:
>>
>> def f(*args):
>>      f.args = args
>>      print args
>>
>> is there any other way?
>
> Not built-in.
>
>
>> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
>> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a valid
>> one at the moment, sorry.
>
> I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only able to
> refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break.
> Consider:
>
> old_f = f  # save the old version of the function
>
> def f(x):
>      return old_f(x+1)  # make a new function and call it f
>
> This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself
> under the name "f", and things break very quickly.

They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:

#-------------------
def f(): return "old func"
g = f
print "name attr of f:", f.__name__
print "name attr of g:", g.__name__

def f(): return "new func"
print "name attr of f:", f.__name__
print "name attr of g:", g.__name__

print "*** calling function currently named f:"
print f()
print "*** calling function currently named g:"
print g()
#-------------------

program output (Python 2.6.4):

name attr of f: f
name attr of g: f
name attr of f: f
name attr of g: f
*** calling function currently named f:
new func
*** calling function currently named g:
old func

-John


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 10 10:24:56 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:24:56 +0100
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4b72cfb9$0$30354$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

John Posner a ?crit :
> On 2/10/2010 9:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>>
(snip)

>>> def f(*args):
>>>      f.args = args
>>>      print args
>>>
(snip)
>> I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only able to
>> refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break.
>> Consider:
>>
>> old_f = f  # save the old version of the function
>>
>> def f(x):
>>      return old_f(x+1)  # make a new function and call it f
>>
>> This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself
>> under the name "f", and things break very quickly.
> 
> They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:

The fact that in the OP's snippet, code inside f's body refers to f by 
its name.



From skylarking11 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:29:40 2010
From: skylarking11 at gmail.com (Sky Larking)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python v. Processing
Message-ID: <b2ec43d5-c373-4aa8-9972-f3caa07270e3@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

I am a light user of Python in a role as a systems administrator...I
am new to the list, but have grown to really enjoy using Python to
help in my job...Another interest I have ( but haven't fully
explored )  is the idea of using programming as a creative outlet .. I
have heard Processing: http://processing.org/ is a good language for
these sort of endeavors --- I am interested in Processing, but would
rather do similar creative work in  Python (i know that is vague, but
the projects on Processing.org are good examples of what I am
intending to do ). I've tried learning different languages
concurrently, and it is usually too much for me too handle.... Are
there creative types using Python in the way Processing is being
implemented? Just curious of their similarities and differences, and
what Python's limitations maybe be in this arena ( if any ) .

Thanks!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 10:33:34 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 15:33:34 GMT
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <0382bdeb$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:08:47 -0500, John Posner wrote:

>> This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself
>> under the name "f", and things break very quickly.
> 
> They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:

The original function f doesn't try to refer to itself in any way. With 
no recursive call or access, it doesn't matter what f is named.

See this example  instead:


>>> def f(x):
...     if x < 0:
...             print "original"
...             return f(-x)
...     else:
...             return x+1
...
>>> f(2)
3
>>> f(-2)
original
3
>>>
>>> old_f = f
>>> def f(x):
...     if x > 0:
...             return old_f(-x)
...     else:
...             return x
...
>>> f(-1)
-1
>>> f(1)
original
original
original
original
original
original
[...]
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 4, in f
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded





-- 
Steven


From yakovenko87 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:34:13 2010
From: yakovenko87 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JrQuNGA0LjQu9C7?=)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: not correct socket closing
Message-ID: <13f582d6-dc41-48a3-9900-5ed95a42dcf0@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
I have got a small script for upload file on http server, and I need
interrupt uploading if I get tired wait.
I create socket:

self.conn = httplib.HTTPConnection("192.168.0.195")
#self.conn.debuglevel = 1
self.conn.request("POST", "/upload/", body, head)
if self.conn.sock:
    self.conn.sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_LINGER,
struct.pack("ii",  1, 0))


and close it in other thread:

if self.conn.sock:
    self.conn.close()

Python notify me what socket have closed, but he continues to send
data.
As can I close it and stop sending of the data?

Best Regards,
Kirill.


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:42:37 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:42:37 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100742x2f8fbeefi5f33fbdd475fdc77@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a
> direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a
> paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us now.)
>

Hm. I hadn't considered that others may interpret my words in the context of
other cultural punctuation rules; it seemed obvious to me that the phrases
Alf declared a "lie" were an opinion, and indeed as Steven points out, my
interpretation and paraphrasing of the original arguments.

Apologies if you considered it a direct quote and thought I was attempting
to assert you actually said what was in quote marks.

The comments were simply my interpretation (accurate or inaccurate as that
may be, it is my interpretation) of your remarks, and not a quotation of
your remarks to be attributed to you.

--S
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 10:51:31 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:51:31 -0500
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkukq4$le7$1@ger.gmane.org>

catonano wrote:
[... much wishing for the "good old day" of SmallTalk ...]
> Today, I tried to understand the twisted.web.client code and I found 3
> methods I couldn't find by who were called.
> 
> I asked on the mailing list and they suggested me where they were
> called and that the tool for such thing is "grep".
> 
> So, you grep, you get a list of files, you open each one of them and
> keep scrolling and switching from one file to another... endlessly.
> Maybe I'm getting old, but I tend to get lost in the process.
> 
Maybe you are getting old. Or maybe you didn't realise that the advice
was given you so that it would be useful whether or not you were using
an IDE.

> I can't believe the code editing situation today is in a such sorry
> state.
> 
It isn't. There are many IDEs that will allow you to easily locate the
calls of specific methods.

> Is this what you meant ?
> 
> If it's this, then it's not experimental at all, it's been done
> already and been put apart.
> 
> Crap won :-(
> 
It seems you yearn for the days of the SmallTalk image. Unfortunately
this didn't allow for conveniences like using external data stored in
files whose contents persisted and which could be transferred between
different machines.

I would never call SmallTalk "crap": it was a ground-breaking system
almost 40 yers ago. But the environment suffered from many limitations
of which you appear to be entirely unaware.

> You write:
> 
>> Instead of current text-oriented IDEs, it
>> should be a database-centric
> 
> well, it seems you agree with Alan Kay, (the Smalltalk inventor) when
> he wrote that programming is NOT glorified text editing.
> 
> He called it "direct manipulation" every method was a live thing you
> could send messages to and the source code that implemented it was
> just an attribute of the method.
> 
This aspect of SmallTalk was one of the things that made software
engineering rather difficult. Everything could be changed on the fly.

> So you could have had a World Of Warcraft like interface, to
> manipulate your methods.
> 
> You know what I'm doing now ? I'm drawing the map of
> twisted.web.client on a paper with a pencil :-(
> 
Well why don't you get yourself a sensible tool like Wing IDE or Komodo?
They at least will let you solve the problem you currently face without
having to poke around in the innards of a running virtual machine the
way we used to in SmallTalk.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From franke.rob at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:54:50 2010
From: franke.rob at googlemail.com (Robert Franke)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:54:50 +0100
Subject: Python v. Processing
In-Reply-To: <b2ec43d5-c373-4aa8-9972-f3caa07270e3@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ec43d5-c373-4aa8-9972-f3caa07270e3@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d34a96991002100754n3ade1cebu52ce8c65f7597777@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sky,


there is a project called pyprocessing
(http://code.google.com/p/pyprocessing/) that aims to create a similar
environment like processing in python. I am not sure though how
advanced this is.

Cheers,

Robert

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Sky Larking <skylarking11 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am a light user of Python in a role as a systems administrator...I
> am new to the list, but have grown to really enjoy using Python to
> help in my job...Another interest I have ( but haven't fully
> explored ) ?is the idea of using programming as a creative outlet .. I
> have heard Processing: http://processing.org/ is a good language for
> these sort of endeavors --- I am interested in Processing, but would
> rather do similar creative work in ?Python (i know that is vague, but
> the projects on Processing.org are good examples of what I am
> intending to do ). I've tried learning different languages
> concurrently, and it is usually too much for me too handle.... Are
> there creative types using Python in the way Processing is being
> implemented? Just curious of their similarities and differences, and
> what Python's limitations maybe be in this arena ( if any ) .
>
> Thanks!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 10:56:37 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:56:37 -0800
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
> > What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> > inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a function like f
>
> Not built-in.
>
> > I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> > feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a valid
> > one at the moment, sorry.
>
> I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only able to
> refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break.
>

I agree its slightly... in-elegant, or sub-optimal, but I'm not sure I want
to call it a *wart*. If one calls it a wart, there might be inspiration to
fix it.

And this sounds like a precursor to making "self" non-explicit, and I
*really* like my explicit self. :)

Then again, I have been slightly bruised by this sub-optimal situation
before.

I tried to do a function using a frame hack to get the information easily,
but failed. My long years of avoiding frame hacks like the plague have left
me deficient. :(

--S
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 11:02:54 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:02:54 +0000
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <c3dfe1d1002100250x56a7f081v5a02d7182d89b5c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<c3dfe1d1002100250x56a7f081v5a02d7182d89b5c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B72D8AE.3000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Olof Bjarnason wrote:
> 2010/2/10 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de>:
>> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>>
>>> Does Python provide a way to format a string according to a
>>> 'picture' format?
>>>
>>> For example, if I have a string '123456789' and want it formatted
>>> like '(123)-45-(678)[9]', is there a module or function that will
>>> allow me to do this or do I need to code this type of
>>> transformation myself?
>> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>>
>>>>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
>> ...     parts = pic.split(placeholder)
>> ...     result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
>> ...     result[::2] = parts
>> ...     result[1::2] = s
>> ...     return "".join(result)
>> ...
>>>>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>>
>> Peter
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> Inspired by your answer here's another version:
> 
>>>> def picture(s, pic):
> ...   if len(s)==0: return pic
> ...   if pic[0]=='#': return s[0]+picture(s[1:], pic[1:])
> ...   return pic[0]+picture(s, pic[1:])
> ...
>>>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
> 
Here's a version without recursion:

 >>> def picture(s, pic):
...     pic = pic.replace("%", "%%").replace("#", "%s")
...     return pic % tuple(s)
...
 >>> picture("123456789", "(###)-##-(###)[#]")
'(123)-45-(678)[9]'



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 11:06:25 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:06:25 -0800
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002100806m66bc38f6mc2242c381be5c7ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:45 AM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> A basic implementation without regular expressions:
>
> >>> def picture(s, pic, placeholder="@"):
> ...     parts = pic.split(placeholder)
> ...     result = [None]*(len(parts)+len(s))
> ...     result[::2] = parts
> ...     result[1::2] = s
> ...     return "".join(result)
> ...
> >>>
> >>> picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> '(123)-45-(678)[9]'
>

Huh. This is the best version of those posted, I think (especially including
mine! My jumping to regex is worthy of shame, sh ame).

It took a little bit to figure out what was really going on here, but its a
single-pass through to do it without recursion or building a bunch of
intermediate strings that are concatenated and dropped away.

Its clever, and I don't mean that in the bad way, because -all- the
solutions are pretty clever in the sneaky-tricky-neat way. But this is
clever-cool.

Just slightly dark-voodoo-incantation-esque. Slightly!

--S
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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 11:10:23 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:10:23 -0600
Subject: Personal criticisms and logical fallacies
In-Reply-To: <4B725AF0.9030803@gmail.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2127.1265591786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hknqmd$jac$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<e601a64a-55b2-4795-845f-6ad953917b5d@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<00fb7707$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87eikuhrax.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>	<hksv31$jgl$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<20100210015132.3808f0d5.darcy@druid.net>
	<4B725AF0.9030803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hkulpe$plf$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-10 01:06 AM, Steven Howe wrote:
> Really, is this a relevant topic on a program mail list?

Yes. Meta-discussions about how we discuss programming productively are also 
on-topic.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 11:15:22 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:15:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkum2p$4i0$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
> En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:10:56 -0300, Grant Edwards  
><invalid at invalid.invalid> escribi?:
>
>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>
>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>> MS-bashing here]
>
> I'm not sure you can blame MS of this issue; anyway, this
> patch should fix the problem:
> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=896256

I'm curious why it wouldn't be Microsoft's fault, because

 A) Everything is Microsoft's fault. ;)

 B) If a patch to MS Windows fixes the problem, how is it not a
    problem in MS Windows?

>> Is there a way to lock the python process to a single core so
>> that time.clock() works right?
>
> Interactively, from the Task Manager:
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/taskman_assign_process.mspx

Thanks.  That looks a bit easier than disabling the second core
(which is what I ended up doing).

> In code, using SetProcessAffinityMask and related functions:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms686223(VS.85).aspx

With help from google and some old mailing list posting I might
even try that.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! It's a lot of fun
                                  at               being alive ... I wonder if
                               visi.com            my bed is made?!?


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 12:15:07 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:15:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: looking for some libraries
References: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9cb81f4e-e7cd-4b5d-992e-2e31f786a1da@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 8:59?am, Vision <visibleli... at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi all,
> I am doing some stuffs with some software, which has similar layout
> like this:
> Editbox________1
> Editbox________2
> Editbox________3
> ? ? ? ?_OK_
> _______________
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> | ? ? ? ?output ? ? ? ?|
> --------------------------
> What I need to do is to fill the edit boxes, then press the OK button,
> then I will get some output text below.
> This is tedious since I have lots of entries to deal with.
> So I am trying to write some scripts to handle this. And I wonder if
> there is any library available for me to simplify the process?
> Thanks!

Well a GUI kit comes to mind. And since you did not mention a
preference (or much really) i would suggest Tkinter in the stdlib as a
starting point. Here is a big hint!

#-- start code --#
import Tkinter as tk

def fooit():
    lister.insert(END, entry1.get())

app = tk.Tk()

label1 = tk.Label(app, text='label-1').grid(row=0, column=0)
entry1 = tk.Entry(app).grid(row=0, column=1)
tk.Button(app, text='OK', command=fooit).grid(row=1, column=0,
columnspan=2)
lister = tk.Listbox(app, width=20, height=10)
lister.grid(row=2, column=0, columnspan=2)

app.mainloop()
#-- end code --#

i would wrap the label and entry up into a class myself but milage may
vary.


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 12:20:34 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:20:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: looking for some libraries
References: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<9cb81f4e-e7cd-4b5d-992e-2e31f786a1da@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <72f1941d-92bd-4063-aa14-d5bb3e0b5107@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

@Vision

Its nice to start with examples that don't crash, so try this
instead ;D

import Tkinter as tk

def fooit():
    lister.insert('end', entry1.get())

app = tk.Tk()

label1 = tk.Label(app, text='label-1').grid(row=0, column=0)
entry1 = tk.Entry(app)
entry1.grid(row=0, column=1)
tk.Button(app, text='OK', command=fooit).grid(row=1, column=0,
columnspan=2)

-- there are no redo's in Usenet!!

lister = tk.Listbox(app, width=20, height=10)
lister.grid(row=2, column=0, columnspan=2)

app.mainloop()




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 12:23:36 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:23:36 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B72EB98.1000204@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano 
> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au 
> <mailto:steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au>> wrote:
> 
>     On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>      > What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
>      > inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a function like f
> 
>     Not built-in.
> 
>      > I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It
>     just
>      > feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise
>     a valid
>      > one at the moment, sorry.
> 
>     I completely agree with you. It is a wart that functions are only
>     able to
>     refer to themselves by name, because if the name changes, things break.
> 
> 
> I agree its slightly... in-elegant, or sub-optimal, but I'm not sure I 
> want to call it a *wart*. If one calls it a wart, there might be 
> inspiration to fix it.
> 
> And this sounds like a precursor to making "self" non-explicit, and I 
> *really* like my explicit self. :)
> 
> Then again, I have been slightly bruised by this sub-optimal situation 
> before.
> 
> I tried to do a function using a frame hack to get the information 
> easily, but failed. My long years of avoiding frame hacks like the 
> plague have left me deficient. :(
> 
Does this mean that Python needs, say, __function__ (and perhaps also
__module__)?


From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 10 12:23:38 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:23:38 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Original poster here.

Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
by studying everyone's solutions!!

I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this common(?) use
case which is why I shied away from writing my own in the first place
... hoping to not-reinvent the wheel, etc.

Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
string. I think it handles the edge cases pretty elegantly unless I'm
too close to the details to miss the obvious.

Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.

# format s using a picture string 
# stops processing when runs out of chars in s or pic string
# example: picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
def picture( s, pic, placeholder="@" ):
    s = list( s )
    output = []
    for sym in pic:
        if sym <> placeholder:
            output.append( sym )
        elif len( s ):
            output.append( s.pop( 0 ) )
        else:
            break
    return ''.join( output )

# test cases
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
	
Regards,
Malcolm


From cdberry at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 12:38:33 2010
From: cdberry at gmail.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:38:33 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>
	<8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8dee73061002100938l39f4b609k94088afefccecdd0@mail.gmail.com>

I'm happy to report that FreeGLUT solved my problem.  I obtained the
Windows prepackaged binary distribution, pulled out freeglut.dll,
renamed it to glut32.dll, and replaced the existing glut32.dll in the
PyOpenGL installation directory tree with the new version.  Mousewheel
events are now reported, and everything else seems to be working as
expected.  Thanks for your help!

-- 
Craig Berry - http://www.cine.net/~cberry/
"Lots of things in the universe don?t solve any problems, and
nevertheless exist."  -- Sean Carroll


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 12:55:00 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:55:00 +0100
Subject: looking for some libraries
In-Reply-To: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B72F2F4.4020607@sequans.com>

Vision wrote:
> hi all,
> I am doing some stuffs with some software, which has similar layout
> like this:
> Editbox________1
> Editbox________2
> Editbox________3
>        _OK_
> _______________
> |        output        |
> |        output        |
> |        output        |
> |        output        |
> |        output        |
> --------------------------
> What I need to do is to fill the edit boxes, then press the OK button,
> then I will get some output text below.
> This is tedious since I have lots of entries to deal with.
> So I am trying to write some scripts to handle this. And I wonder if
> there is any library available for me to simplify the process?
> Thanks!
>   

Someone posted this link few weeks ago:
http://www.sikuli.org/

It supports only mac & windows though.

You can also have a look at
http://pywinauto.openqa.org/

JM



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Feb 10 13:04:14 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:04:14 -0600
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Original poster here.
> 
> Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
> by studying everyone's solutions!!

Thanks for the positive feedback -- it's something most folks 
like to hear when they try to assist and such thanks appears too 
rarely on the list.

> Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
> the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
> the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
> string. 
 >
> Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.
[snip]
> # test cases
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
> 	

You don't give the expected output for these test cases, so it's 
hard to tell whether you want to pad-left or pad-right.

Riffing on MRAB's lovely solution, you can do something like

   def picture(
       s, pic,
       placeholder='@',
       padding=' ',
       pad_left=True
       ):
     assert placeholder != '%'
     s = str(s)
     expected = pic.count(placeholder)
     if len(s) > expected:
       s = s[:expected]
     if len(s) < expected:
       if pad_left:
         s = s.rjust(expected, padding)
       else:
         s = s.ljust(expected, padding)
     return pic.replace(
       '%', '%%').replace(
       placeholder, '%s') % tuple(s)

print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]", 
pad_left=False)

That way you can specify your placeholder, your padding 
character, and whether you want it to pad to the left or right.

-tkc





From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 10 13:15:27 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:15:27 -0500
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <4b72cfb9$0$30354$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
	<4b72cfb9$0$30354$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b72f7a5$0$5017$607ed4bc@cv.net>

On 2/10/2010 10:24 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>
>> They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:
>
> The fact that in the OP's snippet, code inside f's body refers to f by
> its name.

Of course! Tx.  -John





From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 13:21:35 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:21:35 +0000
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2ocjxx87k.fsf@googlemail.com>

python at bdurham.com writes:

> Original poster here.
>
> Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
> by studying everyone's solutions!!
>
> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this common(?) use
> case which is why I shied away from writing my own in the first place
> ... hoping to not-reinvent the wheel, etc.
>
> Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
> the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
> the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
> string. I think it handles the edge cases pretty elegantly unless I'm
> too close to the details to miss the obvious.
>
> Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.
>
> # format s using a picture string 
> # stops processing when runs out of chars in s or pic string
> # example: picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> def picture( s, pic, placeholder="@" ):
>     s = list( s )
>     output = []
>     for sym in pic:
>         if sym <> placeholder:
>             output.append( sym )
>         elif len( s ):
>             output.append( s.pop( 0 ) )
>         else:
>             break
>     return ''.join( output )
>
> # test cases
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
> 	
> Regards,
> Malcolm

def picture(s, pic, placeholder='@'):
    nextchar=iter(s).next
    return ''.join(nextchar() if i == placeholder else i for i in pic)

passes all your test cases I think (I can't be sure because you didn't
post the expected output).  The trick is that when nextchar reaches the
end of the string 's', it raises a StopIteration which is caught by the
generator expression.

-- 
Arnaud


From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 10 13:30:21 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:30:21 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <1265826621.13859.1359315979@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hi Tim,

Thank you very much for your update to MRAB's creative solution.

> You don't give the expected output for these test cases, so 
> it's hard to tell whether you want to pad-left or pad-right.

To be honest, I wasn't sure myself :)

My original post was the result of doing some simple formatting where my
input strings were 'guaranteed'<g> to be a consistent length. I hadn't
started to think about the specs for a more universal picture function
until I started to study and test the solutions proposed by others. It
bears repeating again - what a clever mix of techniques - I really
learned a lot more than I was expecting!

I appreciate you taking the extra time to analyze the problem and refine
it further.

Cheers,
Malcolm

Riffing on MRAB's lovely solution, you can do something like

   def picture(
       s, pic,
       placeholder='@',
       padding=' ',
       pad_left=True
       ):
     assert placeholder != '%'
     s = str(s)
     expected = pic.count(placeholder)
     if len(s) > expected:
       s = s[:expected]
     if len(s) < expected:
       if pad_left:
         s = s.rjust(expected, padding)
       else:
         s = s.ljust(expected, padding)
     return pic.replace(
       '%', '%%').replace(
       placeholder, '%s') % tuple(s)

print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)", pad_left=False)
print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]", 
pad_left=False)

That way you can specify your placeholder, your padding 
character, and whether you want it to pad to the left or right.


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Wed Feb 10 13:30:22 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:30:22 +0100
Subject: Python and Ruby
References: <wissme-13573F.14014027012010@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.1481.1264600071.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1519c5ed-e883-470b-bb82-06078215fd5b@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.01.30.16.43.18.172000@nowhere.com>
	<hk1ofo$emg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<037471d0$0$1309$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4c174f35-84e7-48f1-8c72-7c0de3818384@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<a82b2a7a-81b5-494f-88d6-89e068e782cd@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<fc6b6f61-e2d0-420b-a5fd-d247f3d5306f@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<b35471ed-00a9-4334-811f-8933919c9050@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<636ee042-7411-4867-970c-96250c06498d@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2297.1265813624.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20100210193022.5067e3e3@geekmail.INVALID>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:51:11 -0500 Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com>
wrote:

> [snip]
> It's as sensible to complain about people being "*forced* to keep
> perfect indentation" as it is to complain about people being *forced*
> to use braces to delimit code blocks.
> 
> This is called "syntax", and it's a part of the language, so get over
> it - this aspect of Python has been present in the language since its
> inception, and it isn't going to change.
> 
Amen. Now everybody do a quick

    from __future__ import braces

and get back to work.

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 13:31:23 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:31:23 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
	<0382bdeb$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <m2k4ulx7r8.fsf@googlemail.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:08:47 -0500, John Posner wrote:
>
>>> This won't work correctly, because old_f still tries to refer to itself
>>> under the name "f", and things break very quickly.
>> 
>> They didn't break immediately for me -- what am I missing?:
>
> The original function f doesn't try to refer to itself in any way. With 
> no recursive call or access, it doesn't matter what f is named.
>
> See this example  instead:
>
>
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     if x < 0:
> ...             print "original"
> ...             return f(-x)
> ...     else:
> ...             return x+1
> ...
>>>> f(2)
> 3
>>>> f(-2)
> original
> 3
>>>>
>>>> old_f = f
>>>> def f(x):
> ...     if x > 0:
> ...             return old_f(-x)
> ...     else:
> ...             return x
> ...
>>>> f(-1)
> -1
>>>> f(1)
> original
> original
> original
> original
> original
> original
> [...]
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
>   File "<stdin>", line 4, in f
>   File "<stdin>", line 3, in f
> RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded

It's not ideal, but you can use a decorator like this to solve this
problem:

def bindfunction(f):
    def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
        return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
    bound_f.__name__ = f.__name__
    return bound_f

>>> @bindfunction
... def factorial(this_function, n):
...     if n > 0:
...         return n * this_function(n - 1)
...     else:
...         return 1
... 
>>> factorial(15)
1307674368000L
>>> fac = factorial
>>> fac(15)
1307674368000L
>>> factorial = 'foobar'
>>> fac(15)
1307674368000L

-- 
Arnaud


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Wed Feb 10 13:33:24 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:33:24 -0800
Subject: [PyOpenGL-Users] Mouse wheel events?
In-Reply-To: <8dee73061002100938l39f4b609k94088afefccecdd0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8dee73061002051948lf46b7am2746f2a04a4f16b@mail.gmail.com>	<8dee73061002072157s5695eb25pd17e1846fc705f3f@mail.gmail.com>	<4B6FAE86.2060603@islandtraining.com>	<8dee73061002072245s3b01f2edvc31717e7a2876b31@mail.gmail.com>
	<8dee73061002100938l39f4b609k94088afefccecdd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B72FBF4.7060501@islandtraining.com>

Craig Berry wrote:
> I'm happy to report that FreeGLUT solved my problem.  I obtained the
> Windows prepackaged binary distribution, pulled out freeglut.dll,
> renamed it to glut32.dll, and replaced the existing glut32.dll in the
> PyOpenGL installation directory tree with the new version.  Mousewheel
> events are now reported, and everything else seems to be working as
> expected.  Thanks for your help!
>
>   

:-)

Gary Herron



From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 10 13:36:34 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:36:34 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <m2ocjxx87k.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com><1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com><mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2ocjxx87k.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <1265826994.14794.1359317783@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Arnaud,

Very cool!! Just when I thought the problem couldn't be made simpler ...
WOW!!!

Again, a big thank you to everyone who posted solutions!!!

I'm humbled at how clever and different everyone's techniques have been.

I have to say, I learned much more than I thought I needed to learn :)

Thanks again!

Malcolm

----- Original message -----
From: "Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com>
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:21:35 +0000
Subject: Re: Creating formatted output using picture strings

python at bdurham.com writes:

> Original poster here.
>
> Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
> by studying everyone's solutions!!
>
> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this common(?) use
> case which is why I shied away from writing my own in the first place
> ... hoping to not-reinvent the wheel, etc.
>
> Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
> the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
> the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
> string. I think it handles the edge cases pretty elegantly unless I'm
> too close to the details to miss the obvious.
>
> Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.
>
> # format s using a picture string 
> # stops processing when runs out of chars in s or pic string
> # example: picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> def picture( s, pic, placeholder="@" ):
>     s = list( s )
>     output = []
>     for sym in pic:
>         if sym <> placeholder:
>             output.append( sym )
>         elif len( s ):
>             output.append( s.pop( 0 ) )
>         else:
>             break
>     return ''.join( output )
>
> # test cases
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
> 	
> Regards,
> Malcolm

def picture(s, pic, placeholder='@'):
    nextchar=iter(s).next
    return ''.join(nextchar() if i == placeholder else i for i in pic)

passes all your test cases I think (I can't be sure because you didn't
post the expected output).  The trick is that when nextchar reaches the
end of the string 's', it raises a StopIteration which is caught by the
generator expression.

-- 
Arnaud


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Feb 10 13:38:58 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:38:58 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B72FD42.8010203@stoneleaf.us>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to argue 
> with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.

It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who 
are attempting to teach him.  At the rate it's going, though, I don't 
see myself buying any book he produces.

Besides the arrogant attitude, he is wrong on so many things about 
Python it is truly stunning.  He seems to have confidence born of 
ignorance... a scary sight to see.

In the spirit of being helpful and not just being a jerk myself:

Alf,

Using smileys after declaring somebody is mistaken/wrong/etc makes you 
look bad.

Not attempting to learn the language makes you look like an arrogant 
idiot (case in point: passing-by-object).

Accusing anyone and everyone that criticizes you of making ad hominem 
(sp?) attacks makes you look like a whiner.

After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python, I 
might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than winning 
presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding is not 
worth paying for.

Hoping-this-helps-but-not-really-expecting-it-to-ly yours,
~Ethan~


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 13:58:02 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 18:58:02 GMT
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2306.1265822617.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0382edd6$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:23:36 +0000, MRAB wrote:

> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au
>> <mailto:steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au>> wrote:
>> 
>>     On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:41 -0800, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>>      > What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function
>>      > from inside it, other than using its explicit name? In a
>>      > function like f
>> 
>>     Not built-in.

[...]

> Does this mean that Python needs, say, __function__ (and perhaps also
> __module__)?

Python already has __module__, except that it is spelled:

import __main__


As for __function__, perhaps, but a solution I would be satisfied with 
would be to make it optional. Most functions are not recursive, and do 
not attach attributes to themselves. For the few that do need to refer to 
themselves, it would be sufficient to call a decorator to get the 
behaviour needed. I thought I had come up with such a thing, once before, 
but I can't find it now :(


-- 
Steven


From donn.ingle at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 14:00:57 2010
From: donn.ingle at gmail.com (donn)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:00:57 +0200
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <1265826994.14794.1359317783@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com><1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com><mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2ocjxx87k.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<1265826994.14794.1359317783@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B730269.70809@gmail.com>

On 10/02/2010 20:36, python at bdurham.com wrote:
> def picture(s, pic, placeholder='@'):
>      nextchar=iter(s).next
>      return ''.join(nextchar() if i == placeholder else i for i in pic)
Hell's teeth - even I understood that! Amazing solution.

\d

-- 
Fonty Python and Things! -- http://otherwise.relics.co.za/wiki/Software


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 14:04:58 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 19:04:58 GMT
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
	<0382bdeb$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<m2k4ulx7r8.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <0382ef76$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:31:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> It's not ideal, but you can use a decorator like this to solve this
> problem:
> 
> def bindfunction(f):
>     def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
>         return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
>     bound_f.__name__ = f.__name__
>     return bound_f

Ah, very nice. Perhaps it's better to use functools.wraps?

import functools

def bindfunction(f):
    @functools.wraps(f)
    def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
        return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
    return bound_f



-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 10 14:09:46 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:09:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
Message-ID: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>



Some people have mathphobia.  I'm developing a wicked case of
Unicodephobia.

I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:

UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

(There, see?  My Unicodephobia just went up a notch.)

Here's the thing: I don't even know how to *begin* debugging errors
like this.  This is where I could use some help.

In the past I've gone for method of choice of the clueless:
"programming by trial-and-error", try random crap until something
"works."  And if that "strategy" fails, I come begging for help to
c.l.p.  And thanks for the very effective pointers for getting rid
of the errors.

But afterwards I remain as clueless as ever...  It's the old "give
a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish" story.

I need a systematic approach to troubleshooting and debugging these
Unicode errors.  I don't know what.  Some tools maybe.  Some useful
modules or builtin commands.  A diagnostic flowchart?  I don't
think that any more RTFM on Unicode is going to help (I've done it
in spades), but if there's a particularly good write-up on Unicode
debugging, please let me know.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

FWIW, I'm using Python 2.6.  The example above happens to come from
a script that extracts data from HTML files, which are all in
English, but they are a daily occurrence when I write code to
process non-English text.  The script uses Beautiful Soup.  I won't
post a lot of code because, as I said, what I'm after is not so
much a way around this specific error as much as the tools and
techniques to troubleshoot it and fix it on my own.  But to ground
the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
the execution of a statement of the form:

  x = '%s %s' % (y, z)

Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
all of the following statements work perfectly fine:

  x = '%s' % y
  x = '%s' % z
  print y
  print z
  print y, z

TIA!

~K


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 10 14:22:44 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:22:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 11:09?am, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
>
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
>

You'll have to understand some terminology first.

"codec" is a description of how to encode and decode unicode data to a
stream of bytes.

"decode" means you are taking a series of bytes and converting it to
unicode.

"encode" is the opposite---take a unicode string and convert it to a
stream of bytes.

"ascii" is a codec that can only describe 0-127 with bytes 0-127.
"utf-8", "utf-16", etc... are other codecs. There's a lot of them.
Only some of them (ie, utf-8, utf-16) can encode all unicode. Most
(ie, ascii) can only do a subset of unicode.

In this case, you've fed a stream of bytes with 128 as one of the
bytes to the decoder. Since the decoder thinks it's working with
ascii, it doesn't know what to do with 128. There's a number of ways
to fix this:

(1) Feed it unicode instead, so it doesn't try to decode it.

(2) Tell it what encoding you are using, because it's obviously not
ascii.

>
> FWIW, I'm using Python 2.6. ?The example above happens to come from
> a script that extracts data from HTML files, which are all in
> English, but they are a daily occurrence when I write code to
> process non-English text. ?The script uses Beautiful Soup. ?I won't
> post a lot of code because, as I said, what I'm after is not so
> much a way around this specific error as much as the tools and
> techniques to troubleshoot it and fix it on my own. ?But to ground
> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
> the execution of a statement of the form:
>
> ? x = '%s %s' % (y, z)
>
> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
>
> ? x = '%s' % y
> ? x = '%s' % z
> ? print y
> ? print z
> ? print y, z
>

What are y and z? Are they unicode or strings? What are their values?

It sounds like someone, probably beautiful soup, is trying to turn
your strings into unicode. A full stacktrace would be useful to see
who did what where.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 14:56:20 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 19:56:20 GMT
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1BCAD3B50E1duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

> But to ground
> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
> the execution of a statement of the form:
> 
>   x = '%s %s' % (y, z)
> 
> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
> 
>   x = '%s' % y
>   x = '%s' % z
>   print y
>   print z
>   print y, z
> 

One of y or z is unicode, the other is str. The statement that goes wrong 
is combining the unicode string with the other one so the result has to be 
unicode. That means whichever of y or z is str is being decoded to unicode 
is being decoded with the default of 'ascii'.

When you format them separately one assignment to x gives a unicode result, 
the other gives str.

When you print them you are encoding the unicode value to ascii and that 
isn't giving a problem.

1. Print the repr of each value so you can see which is which.
2. Explicitly decode the str to unicode using whatever encoding is correct 
(possibly utf-8) when formatting.
3. Explicitly encode back to str when printing using the encoding of your 
output device.
4. Know what types you are using: never mix str and unicode without being 
explicit.
5. When you post to this newsgroup include the full traceback, not just the 
error message.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 14:56:25 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:56:25 +0000
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com><mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org><hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org><c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<1265822618.2095.1359305405@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B72F51E.1080609@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B730F69.8090205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Tim Chase wrote:
> python at bdurham.com wrote:
>> Original poster here.
>>
>> Thank you all for your ideas. I certainly learned some great techniques
>> by studying everyone's solutions!!
> 
> Thanks for the positive feedback -- it's something most folks like to 
> hear when they try to assist and such thanks appears too rarely on the 
> list.
> 
>> Here's the solution I came up with myself. Its not as sexy as some of
>> the posted solutions, but it does have the advantage of not failing when
>> the number of input chars <> the number of placeholders in the pic
>> string. 
>  >
>> Any feedback on what follows would be appreciated.
> [snip]
>> # test cases
>> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]")
>> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)")
>> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]")
>>     
> 
> You don't give the expected output for these test cases, so it's hard to 
> tell whether you want to pad-left or pad-right.
> 
> Riffing on MRAB's lovely solution, you can do something like
> 
>   def picture(
>       s, pic,
>       placeholder='@',
>       padding=' ',
>       pad_left=True
>       ):
>     assert placeholder != '%'
>     s = str(s)
>     expected = pic.count(placeholder)
>     if len(s) > expected:
>       s = s[:expected]
>     if len(s) < expected:
>       if pad_left:
>         s = s.rjust(expected, padding)
>       else:
>         s = s.ljust(expected, padding)
>     return pic.replace(
>       '%', '%%').replace(
>       placeholder, '%s') % tuple(s)
> 
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
> print picture("123456789ABC", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
> print picture("1234", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@]", pad_left=False)
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)", pad_left=False)
> print picture("123456789", "(@@@)-@@-(@@@)[@][@@@@@]", pad_left=False)
> 
> That way you can specify your placeholder, your padding character, and 
> whether you want it to pad to the left or right.
> 
The code changes any existing '%' to '%%' because each placeholder will
be changed to '%s'. However, if the placeholder itself is '%' then the
initial 'fix' isn't necessary. Therefore:

def picture(s, pic, placeholder='@', padding=' ', pad_left=True):
     s = str(s)
     expected = pic.count(placeholder)
     if len(s) > expected:
         s = s[:expected]
     elif len(s) < expected:
         if pad_left:
             s = s.rjust(expected, padding)
         else:
             s = s.ljust(expected, padding)
     if placeholder != '%':
         pic = pic.replace('%', '%%')
     return pic.replace(placeholder, '%s') % tuple(s)


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 14:57:04 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:57:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:

[regardning "picture" output format specifiers]

> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
> common(?) use case

I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
commonly used in other places than COBOL?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Did I say I was
                                  at               a sardine?  Or a bus???
                               visi.com            


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 15:02:14 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Duncan Booth:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
> 
>>> In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
>>> (and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
>>> objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
>>> address. Try comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers
>>> and you'll cause a lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the
>>> id() value is in some way related to an address.
>> Did you /read/ what you quoted?
>>
>>
>>> Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's
>>> nothing in the Python specification which prevents a Python
>>> implementation doing the same for small integers, in fact I believe
>>> it has been tried but wasn't found to improve performance.
>> All theree of your points about Python are wrong; I don't know about
>> the Ruby point. 
> 
> Would you care to expand upon your claim that my three points about Python 
> are wrong?

Sure. I already did in the article you're replying to, immediately following 
what you quote above. You snipped that which you're asking for, so I requote:


<quote>
First, the current Python language specification formally prevents the 
optimization you mention, because there's no support for binding to do anything 
but direct binding leaving object identities unchanged.

But in practice that's no big deal though: I can't imagine any code relying on 
identities of completely immutable objects.

Second, even the variant that was tried improved performance.

But it would reportedly have wreaked havoc with imperfect C code.

Third, the optimization doesn't do away with pointers. If it did then it would 
transform the language completely. The user's view is still one where names 
denote pointers.
</quote>


Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer" remains: 
"pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python level, in 
the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language spec.


> Are you saying that CPyhton objects move around, or that 
> IronPython objects are fixed to a single memory location or that their id 
> is related to their address?

No, I can't see how you can deduce any such connection from I wrote.

Whether objects "move around" depends on what exactly you mean by "move around", 
and given that, it may then depend on the Python implementation.

However, from the Python point of view every object has a fixed unique id, 
available via id().


> Clue here:
> 
> IronPython 2.6 (2.6.10920.0) on .NET 2.0.50727.3082
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> x = 42
>>>> id(x)
> 43
>>>> y = 43
>>>> id(y)
> 44
>>>> z = "whatever"
>>>> id(z)
> 45
> 

I'm guessing wildly that you're trying to illustrate id's that don't correspond 
to memory addresses?

If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language) pointer is 
not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id is not guaranteed 
to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which might not even make sense.

All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the object 
pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and although in CPython 
that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as integer, in IronPython it's not.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 15:05:55 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:05:55 +0000
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B7311A3.3010504@mrabarnett.plus.com>

kj wrote:
> 
> Some people have mathphobia.  I'm developing a wicked case of
> Unicodephobia.
> 
> I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
> that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:
> 
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> (There, see?  My Unicodephobia just went up a notch.)
> 
> Here's the thing: I don't even know how to *begin* debugging errors
> like this.  This is where I could use some help.
> 
> In the past I've gone for method of choice of the clueless:
> "programming by trial-and-error", try random crap until something
> "works."  And if that "strategy" fails, I come begging for help to
> c.l.p.  And thanks for the very effective pointers for getting rid
> of the errors.
> 
> But afterwards I remain as clueless as ever...  It's the old "give
> a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish" story.
> 
> I need a systematic approach to troubleshooting and debugging these
> Unicode errors.  I don't know what.  Some tools maybe.  Some useful
> modules or builtin commands.  A diagnostic flowchart?  I don't
> think that any more RTFM on Unicode is going to help (I've done it
> in spades), but if there's a particularly good write-up on Unicode
> debugging, please let me know.
> 
> Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> 
> FWIW, I'm using Python 2.6.  The example above happens to come from
> a script that extracts data from HTML files, which are all in
> English, but they are a daily occurrence when I write code to
> process non-English text.  The script uses Beautiful Soup.  I won't
> post a lot of code because, as I said, what I'm after is not so
> much a way around this specific error as much as the tools and
> techniques to troubleshoot it and fix it on my own.  But to ground
> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
> the execution of a statement of the form:
> 
>   x = '%s %s' % (y, z)
> 
> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
> 
>   x = '%s' % y
>   x = '%s' % z
>   print y
>   print z
>   print y, z
> 
Decode all text input; encode all text output; do all text processing
in Unicode, which also means making all text literals Unicode (prefixed
with 'u').

Note: I'm talking about when you're working with _text_, as distinct
from when you're working with _binary data_, ie bytes.


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:13:58 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:13:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SocketServer error: AttributeError:  instance has no __call__ method
Message-ID: <bc9adc7c-e24e-4229-aabd-3c6c10fdfa48@v36g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

Hey guys,
I'm having some issues connecting to my Socket Server,  I get this
traceback on the sever side:
----------------------------------------
Exception happened during processing of request from ('127.0.0.1',
56404)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 281, in
_handle_request_noblock
    self.process_request(request, client_address)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 307, in
process_request
    self.finish_request(request, client_address)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 320, in
finish_request
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
AttributeError: Negotiator instance has no __call__ method
----------------------------------------
here's the handler and my server:
#server side negotiator
from message import message
from sharedComs import *
from Crypto.Hash import SHA256
from Crypto.Cipher import AES
from Crypto import Random
from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
import xmlrpclib as xmlrpc
import os
import SocketServer

class Negotiator(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    CLIENT_KEY = 0
    CSCIPHER = 1
    SCCIPHER = 2
    CSHALVES = 3
    SCHALVES = 4
    FILENAME = 5

    def __init__(self, host, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
        self.host = host
        self.hostid = hostid
        self.serverKey = rsa_key
        self.buffer = buf
        self.clientKey = None
        self.SCcipher = None
        self.CScipher = None
        self.CSHalves = None
        self.SCHalves = None
        self.file = None

        usr_dict = {}

    def setSChalves(self):
        usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][SCHALVES] =
(Random.new().read(32),
                                              Random.new().read(32))

    def createCiphers(self):
        """Create the two ciphers we will be using for communication
        between negotiators"""
        name = str(self.client_address)
        usr_dict[name][1] = AES.new(SHA256.new(str("KCS",
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[SCHALVES][0],
 
self.serverKey.publickey(),
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[CSHALVES][0],
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[CLIENT_KEY].publickey())).digest())
        usr_dict[name][2] = AES.new(SHA256.new(str("KSC",
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[SCHALVES][1],
 
self.serverKey.publickey(),
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[CSHALVES][1],
                                                   usr_dict[name]
[CLIENT_KEY].publickey())).digest())

    def handleConn(self, clmsg):
        data = clmsg[1]
        if data[0] == self.host and data[1] == self.hostid:
            return True
        else:
            return False

    def getClientHalves(self, clmsg):
        """Get the halves from the clien as well as the client key."""
        print clmsg
        print "clmsg[1]", clmsg[1]
        data = stringToTuple(clmsg[1])
        print "tuple", data
        print "tuple[0]", data[0]
        print "tuple[1]", data[1]
        data = self.serverKey.decrypt(str(data[0]))
        print
        print "data:",data
        print
        data = stringToTuple(data)
        usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][CLIENT_KEY] =
RSA.construct((data[0],data[1]))
        usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][CSHALVES] = (data[2],
data[3])


    def handleFileReq(self, clmsg):
        """Determine if the file requested exists:
        TODO: if the client is allowed to acces"""

        data = DecodeAES(self.CScipher, clmsg[1])
        usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][FILENAME] = data
        return os.path.exists(usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][5])

    def packageFile(self):
        f = open(usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][5],"rb")
        data = f.read()
        f.close()
        crypt = EncodeAES(self.SCcipher, data)
        f = open(usr_dict[str(self.client_address)]
[5]+str(self.client_address),
                 "wb")
        f.write(crypt)
        f.close
        return (True,self.file+self.client.getAddr())


    def handleUserDisc(self, clmsg):
        os.remove(usr_dict[str(self.client_address)][FILENAME]
+str(self.client_address))



    def handle(self):

        #Plan on being asked for server comfirmation
        msg = self.request.recv(self.buffer)
        name = str(self.client_address)
        clmsg = None
        if not msg == "":
            clmsg = xmlrpc.loads()
        if not name in usr_dict:
            user_dict[name] = ["","","","","",""]

        print "handle Server ver"
        clmsg = clmsg[0]
        if clmsg[0] == CONN:
            if not self.handleConn(clmsg):
                print "Not right HostID"
                del usr_dict[name]

            else:
                #We got the right message send a reply with our key
                srvmsg = message(SERVER_INFO,
                                 str(self.serverKey.publickey()))
                self.request.send(xmlrpc.dumps(srvmsg.getSendable()))


        elif clmsg[0] == CS_KEY:
        #all this is public key encryption
        #plan on getting key halves from the client
            # as well as the clients public key
            print "get key/halves from client"
            self.getClientHalves(clmsg)

            #send over our halves now
            print "send halves"
            self.setSCHalves()
            srvmsg = message(SC_KEYDAT,
                             str(usr_dict[name]
[0].encrypt(usr_dict[name][4],"")))
        #everyones halves were sent so generate the ciphers
            self.createCiphers()

        #all this is AES encryption
        #### USER AUTH HERE JUST SENDING ACK FOR NOW

        #no user auth yet so just acknowledge the user exists
            print "send usr ack"
            srvmsg = message(USER_ACK, str(EncodeAES(usr_dict[name]
[2],True)))
            self.server.send(xmlrpc.dumps(servmsg.getSendable()))

        #the client should be sending a file request
        elif clmsg[0] == FILE_REQ:
            print "expecting file req"
            available = self.handleFileReq(clmsg)
            if available: #file is available
                srvmsg = message(FILE_ACK,
                                 str(EncodeAES(usr_dict[name]
[2],available)))
            else: #file isn't available
                srvmsg = message(FILE_ACK,
                                 str(EncodeAES(usr_dict[name]
[2],available)))
                print "File %s not Available" %self.file
                del usr_dict[name]


        #package the file and tell the client
            package = self.packageFile()
            srvmsg = message(DL_READY, EncodeAES(usr_dict[name][2],
                                                 package))
            self.server.send(xmlrpc(srvmsg.getSendable()))
            if not package[0]: # the file wasn't pakaged so close the
connection
        #the client tells us they got the file so just remove the file
that
            #was made
                print "expecting USER_DISC"
        else:
            if not usr_dict[name][5] == "":
                handleUserDisc(clmsg)
            del usr_dict[name]



class ServerNegotiator:
    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
        negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
        self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)


    def start(self):
        self.server.serve_forever()






Do I need to write the __call__() method as well?







From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 15:14:54 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:14:54 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hkv405$f5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:13:22 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> You've
>>> dismissed at least one of my arguments with a simple hand-waving of,
>>> "That's invalid, cuz."
>> That is not a quote of me. It is a lie.
> 
> Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I 
> understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native 
> English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are sometimes 
> ambiguous in English.
> 
> While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a 
> direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a 
> paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us now.)
> 
> Unfortunately, this means that in informal discussions like this it is 
> sometimes difficult to distinguish a direct quote from a paraphrase, 
> except by context. In context, as a native speaker, I can assure you that 
> Stephen Hansen's use of quotation marks is a paraphrase and not meant to 
> be read as a direct quote.

I'm aware that Stephen Hansen maintains that, but I'm not replying to his 
ramblings about insanity and so on (perhaps he is a child, but I'm not replying 
to that kind of stuff).

Anyway, in the original article he refererred to part of the quoted text, 
quoting that in turn as an example of how allegedly patronising (or whatever) 
I'd been to him.

Re-quoting a part *does not make sense* for paraphrasing.

And anyway, he wrote a piece where quotes seemed to signify quoting, drawing 
conclusions from the quoted text.

It's just plain lying.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From anthony.tolle at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:17:51 2010
From: anthony.tolle at gmail.com (Anthony Tolle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:17:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <923ca72c-7b21-4abe-920f-b0b148df8ec7@t42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 2:09?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> Some people have mathphobia. ?I'm developing a wicked case of
> Unicodephobia.
> [snip]

Some general advice (Looks like I am reiterating what MRAB said -- I
type slower :):

1. If possible, use unicode strings for everything.  That is, don't
use both str and unicode within the same project.

2. If that isn't possible, convert strings to unicode as early as
possible, work with them that way, then convert them back as late as
possible.

3. Know what type of string you are working with!  If a function
returns or accepts a string value, verify whether the expected type is
unicode or str.

4. Consider switching to Python 3.x, since there is only one string
type (unicode).

--


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:19:52 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:19:52 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <72157116-44AD-4F52-BB6E-35BBD629A7A6@gmail.com>

On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:
> 
> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
> 
>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>> common(?) use case
> 
> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
> commonly used in other places than COBOL?

Seriously?

I've seen it in dozens places other than COBOL over the years in everything from  templating languages to report generators, to built-in support in a variety of languages (dBASE II anyone?).

Haven't you ever had to get a e.g. a phone number or social security number from user input?

S




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 10 15:24:39 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:24:39 -0500
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com><6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <hkv4mb$k87$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/10/2010 5:21 AM, Quin wrote:
> Well, PyScripter works find with that code.  Furthermore, the
> un-intellisense in IronPython was problematic, inserting the wrong
> things, which I had to erase.
>
> Also, there were some code constructs IronPython let pass that
> PyScripter didn't, namely, print(), PyScripter requires the ()
>
> Something simple, like:
> n = -1
> if n <> -1:
> print('fell through')
>
> falls through to the print.
>
> So, I don't know what the problem is with IronPython, perhaps it isn't
> compatible with Python v3, but on my machine, at least, it doesn't perform.

'<>' is not legal in Python3, so above is not Python3 code.



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Feb 10 15:39:44 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:39:44 -0600
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B731990.4020400@tim.thechases.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>> common(?) use case
> 
> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
> commonly used in other places than COBOL?

I've spotted in the wild as recently as Visual Basic 6.  I don't 
know if remnants made it into Visual Fred (VB.net).  I think 
they're referred to as "format strings", but they're a mystical 
(and poorly documented) suite of characters that seem to have 
accrued features like my bathtub gets mildew.  Most folks just 
copy and paste the format strings from the web.

-tkc





From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 15:40:41 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:40:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2317.1265833198.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkv5k9$ki$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-10, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:
>> 
>> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>> 
>>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>>> common(?) use case
>> 
>> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
>> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
>> commonly used in other places than COBOL?
>
> Seriously?

Seriously.

> I've seen it in dozens places other than COBOL over the years
> in everything from templating languages to report generators,
> to built-in support in a variety of languages (dBASE II
> anyone?).
>
> Haven't you ever had to get a e.g. a phone number or social
> security number from user input?

Nope.  I guess it's specific to certain application areas. I've
never done any database type stuff.  I do mostly embedded,
device drivers, networking/protocols, industrial automation,
Unix system admin/automation, and scientific visualization.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I once decorated my
                                  at               apartment entirely in ten
                               visi.com            foot salad forks!!


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:42:17 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:42:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A silly question on file opening
Message-ID: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I was using Python with IDLE as GUI for quite some time. My Operating
System was Windows XP with Service Pack2.
Recently I changed the Operating System to Windows XP with Service
Pack3. I had to reinstall Python for which I downloaded
"python-2.6.4.msi"and loaded it in my D drive.

Here, as I am trying to open the file if I am giving a statement like,
  file_open=open("python26/file","r")
It is showing an error,
On checking how the files are stored it is showing that it is storing
in D drive directly but not in Python folder in D drive there is no
Python folder at all.
I tried to change the location to D:\file and as I saw in Python Docs
the file reading option is now "r+" so I changed the statement to
   file_open=open("D:\file","r+")
but it is still giving error.
Did I install it wrongly?
If you can please help it out.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:52:42 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:52:42 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hkv5k9$ki$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2317.1265833198.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv5k9$ki$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <C41384D0-8C61-4FFC-A1D1-E0FAD532B71C@gmail.com>


On Feb 10, 2010, at 3:40 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2010-02-10, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>>> 
>>>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>>>> common(?) use case
>>> 
>>> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
>>> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
>>> commonly used in other places than COBOL?
>> 
>> Seriously?
> 
> Seriously.
> 
>> I've seen it in dozens places other than COBOL over the years
>> in everything from templating languages to report generators,
>> to built-in support in a variety of languages (dBASE II
>> anyone?).
>> 
>> Haven't you ever had to get a e.g. a phone number or social
>> security number from user input?
> 
> Nope.  I guess it's specific to certain application areas. I've
> never done any database type stuff.  I do mostly embedded,
> device drivers, networking/protocols, industrial automation,
> Unix system admin/automation, and scientific visualization.

Yah, I've hardly ever had to get SSN input from users in a device driver ;-).

That's what makes groups like this go 'round; we have all done different types of things which gives us all different perspectives.

S



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Feb 10 15:56:02 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:56:02 -0800
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style
In-Reply-To: <4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B731D62.1010004@stoneleaf.us>

Tim Chase wrote:
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?
> 
> -tkc

If one branch is only a few lines, it comes first.  As often as not, 
that tiny branch is checking for errors, and the "else" branch doesn't 
need to be indented.

def func(arg1):
     if arg1 is 'stupid':
         raise ValueError("that's a stupid argument!")
     do_something
     do_something_else
     etc, etc


~Ethan~


From anthony.tolle at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 15:57:52 2010
From: anthony.tolle at gmail.com (Anthony Tolle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A silly question on file opening
References: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a01025f4-a6e2-42bd-ad5c-6b45827df81a@v36g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 3:42?pm, joy99 <subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Group,
> [snip]
> I tried to change the location to D:\file and as I saw in Python Docs
> the file reading option is now "r+" so I changed the statement to
> ? ?file_open=open("D:\file","r+")
> but it is still giving error.

Only use "r+" if you need to also write to the file.  "r" is still
good for opening for reading.

Without seeing a traceback, I can only assume the error is caused by
using a backslash in the path without escaping it.  Try either the
following:

file_open=open("D:\\file","r+")

file_open=open(r"D:\file","r+")

For an explanation, see the Python documentation:

http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-literals


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 10 16:03:01 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:03:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81 at m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

>On Feb 10, 11:09=A0am, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
>> FWIW, I'm using Python 2.6. =A0The example above happens to come from
>> a script that extracts data from HTML files, which are all in
>> English, but they are a daily occurrence when I write code to
>> process non-English text. =A0The script uses Beautiful Soup. =A0I won't
>> post a lot of code because, as I said, what I'm after is not so
>> much a way around this specific error as much as the tools and
>> techniques to troubleshoot it and fix it on my own. =A0But to ground
>> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
>> the execution of a statement of the form:
>>
>> =A0 x =3D '%s %s' % (y, z)
>>
>> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
>> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
>>
>> =A0 x =3D '%s' % y
>> =A0 x =3D '%s' % z
>> =A0 print y
>> =A0 print z
>> =A0 print y, z
>>

>What are y and z?

  x = "%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents())

where the variable table represents a BeautifulSoup.Tag instance.

>Are they unicode or strings?

The first item (table['id']) is unicode, and the second is str.

>What are their values?

The only easy way I know to examine the values of these strings is
to print them, which, I know, is very crude.  (IOW, to answer this
question usefully, in the context of this problem, more Unicode
knowhow is needed than I have.)  If I print them, the output for
the first one on my screen is "mainTable", and for the second it is

<th class="mainTableHeader" colspan="2">  Tags</th>
<th class="mainTableHeader">  Id</th>


>It sounds like someone, probably beautiful soup, is trying to turn
>your strings into unicode. A full stacktrace would be useful to see
>who did what where.

Unfortunately, there's not much in the stacktrace: 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./download_tt.py", line 427, in <module>
    x = "%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents())
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 41: ordinal not in range(128)

(NB: the difference between this error message and the one I
originally posted, namely the position of the unrecognized byte,
is because I simplified the code for the purpose of posting it
here, eliminating one additional processing of the second entry of
the tuple above.)

~K



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 16:14:51 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:14:51 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkv7oi$4k0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Duncan Booth:
>> "Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>>
>>>> In CPython objects once created remain in the same memory location
>>>> (and their id is their address). Compare that to IronPython where the
>>>> objects themselves can move around in memory so they have no fixed
>>>> address. Try comparing the IronPython implementation to C pointers
>>>> and you'll cause a lot of confusion. e.g. someone might think the
>>>> id() value is in some way related to an address.
>>> Did you /read/ what you quoted?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ruby implements integers without using any pointers at all: there's
>>>> nothing in the Python specification which prevents a Python
>>>> implementation doing the same for small integers, in fact I believe
>>>> it has been tried but wasn't found to improve performance.
>>> All theree of your points about Python are wrong; I don't know about
>>> the Ruby point. 
>>
>> Would you care to expand upon your claim that my three points about
>> Python are wrong?
> 
> Sure. I already did in the article you're replying to, immediately
> following what you quote above. You snipped that which you're asking
> for, so I requote:
> 
> 
> <quote>
> First, the current Python language specification formally prevents the
> optimization you mention, because there's no support for binding to do
> anything but direct binding leaving object identities unchanged.
> 
> But in practice that's no big deal though: I can't imagine any code
> relying on identities of completely immutable objects.
> 
> Second, even the variant that was tried improved performance.
> 
> But it would reportedly have wreaked havoc with imperfect C code.
> 
> Third, the optimization doesn't do away with pointers. If it did then it
> would transform the language completely. The user's view is still one
> where names denote pointers.
> </quote>
> 
> 
> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
> language spec.
> 
> 
>> Are you saying that CPyhton objects move around, or that IronPython
>> objects are fixed to a single memory location or that their id is
>> related to their address?
> 
> No, I can't see how you can deduce any such connection from I wrote.
> 
> Whether objects "move around" depends on what exactly you mean by "move
> around", and given that, it may then depend on the Python implementation.
> 
> However, from the Python point of view every object has a fixed unique
> id, available via id().
> 
> 
>> Clue here:
>>
>> IronPython 2.6 (2.6.10920.0) on .NET 2.0.50727.3082
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> x = 42
>>>>> id(x)
>> 43
>>>>> y = 43
>>>>> id(y)
>> 44
>>>>> z = "whatever"
>>>>> id(z)
>> 45
>>
> 
> I'm guessing wildly that you're trying to illustrate id's that don't
> correspond to memory addresses?
> 
> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
> might not even make sense.
> 
> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
> integer, in IronPython it's not.
> 
You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
constructed definition above as a pointer does not allow you to access
the value that is "pointed to". So I fail to see why you feel its its
introduction is necessary.

Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
access to the referenced value.

If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
the value for which the id() value was provided.

So in your world it's unnecessary for pointers to point to anything (or
references to refer to something)? For someone who cheerfully admits to
being wrong from time to time (an admirable characteristic) you are
certainly difficult to convince on this point. One wonders what further
hand-waving will follow.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:18:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:18:17 -0800
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002101318w2b72f255ga4ee2b643a8ac66d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:21 AM, Quin <quindennis at grandecom.net> wrote:

> Well, PyScripter works find with that code.  Furthermore, the
> un-intellisense in IronPython was problematic, inserting the wrong things,
> which I had to erase.
>

I think you're confused and are comparing apples to oranges. To define a
couple terms-- I'm starting at the basics, forgive me:

Python is a language; CPython is an implementation of that language, in C.
Often, Python and CPython are used interchangeably, but not always.

There are sort of two concurrent versions of Python available today, both
current; 2.6 and 3.1.

IronPython is an alternate implementation of the Python 2.6 language, built
upon the .NET platform. It's a language, not a tool. (Well, insofar as every
language is ultimately a tool). IronPython (like Jython, PyPy, and the other
Python alternate implementations) does not yet support Python 3.x.

PyScripter is an IDE for Python. IDE's have intellisense and such, languages
do not. I'm not sure what you were using as your IDE when you used
IronPython-- perhaps IronPython Studio? That's a distinct thing from
IronPython itself.

PyScripter can support both Python 2.x and 3.x, but I don't know if it
requires any settings to change between modes or if you have to select which
interpreter you want to use. We can only guess what actual version of Python
you're using from your comments, but it looks sort of like 2.x

Also, there were some code constructs IronPython let pass that PyScripter
> didn't, namely, print(), PyScripter requires the ()
>
> Something simple, like:
> n = -1
> if n <> -1:
>    print('fell through')
>
> falls through to the print.
>

PyScripter is not a language, but a tool; in Python 3.x, print requires the
() as it is a function. Additionally, in Python 3.x, you have to say "not
equal" as !=, you can't use <> anymore.

In Python 2.x, print is a statement. You /may/ put () around an expression
but that isn't the same thing. For simple operations it frequently looks the
same and produces the same output, though. In Python 2.x, you can say "not
equal" as either != or <>.

The original code:

s = f.readline()
if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
if 'mystring' in s:
  print 'processing'

... will only work on Python 2.x, as print is being used as a statement. If
you change print to a function, that code will work in either Python 2.x or
Python 3.x.

However, in both CPython and IronPython, the above is provably correct code.
It works fine: with those five lines alone, you are guaranteed to get
'foundit' followed by 'processing' if mystring is in s. With those five
lines alone, you must get that result. If you aren't, then there's something
else going on before or after-- and its not about IronPython vs CPython. To
help diagnose what's wrong, copy and paste -real- results from a command
prompt or interpreter when you run it, providing complete code. Something
else is going wrong, you're looking in the wrong place to find the solution.

If you're using an IDE, perhaps that IDE is doing something strange (though
I can't fathom what), or perhaps its pointing at a different version of
Python then you're expecting. We can't really tell from what you've said.

So, I don't know what the problem is with IronPython, perhaps it isn't
> compatible with Python v3, but on my machine, at least, it doesn't perform.
>

The current version of IronPython (http://ironpython.net/) is 2.6, yes. They
have not yet made a Python 3.x port. Then again, much of the code you've
shown us seems to imply you're using Python 2.x, not 3.x.

So I can't quite make sense of your environment yet to offer more help--
specifically, you seem to be saying IronPython, but not actually -mean-
IronPython, but instead some IDE?

--S
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Feb 10 16:19:14 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:19:14 -0800
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <72157116-44AD-4F52-BB6E-35BBD629A7A6@gmail.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<72157116-44AD-4F52-BB6E-35BBD629A7A6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002101319p407af3d7o5333c416b4db9522@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:19 PM, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com <python at bdurham.com> wrote:
>>
>> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>>
>>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>>> common(?) use case
>>
>> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
>> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
>> commonly used in other places than COBOL?
<snip>
> Haven't you ever had to get a e.g. a phone number or social security
number from user input?

If I have a GUI, I can just put 3 separate length-limited text fields and
then I only have to
check that the input is numerical and each field is of the right length; no
fiddling with
punctuation or manual separation into fields; or more likely, there's
already a phone
number widget! In other words, I won't care about the punctuation characters
anyway.

If I don't have a GUI:
(1) my program is probably not for end-users, so I can be less user-friendly
and more dictatorial about the required format
(2) or it's munging mediocre data from a DB and I need to be more
error-tolerant that picture formatting would allow
(3) in any case, it's not *that* hard to do without picture formatting
(although it might get tedious after a while,
probably hence why some languages in just the right niche indeed offer
picture formatting):

phone_parts = input("Phone number?: ").replace('(', '').replace(')',
'').split('-')
if not all(part.isdigit() for part in phone_parts) or [3,3,4] != map(len,
phone_parts):
   #error message to user

Stricter validation would either be user-unfriendly or is left as an
exercise to the reader.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 16:23:08 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 21:23:08 GMT
Subject: A silly question on file opening
References: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.10.21.23.08@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:42:17 -0800, joy99 wrote:

> I tried to change the location to D:\file and as I saw in Python Docs
> the file reading option is now "r+" so I changed the statement to
>    file_open=open("D:\file","r+")
> but it is still giving error.


You should copy and paste (do not re-type!) the *exact* line that leads 
to an error, and the full traceback that Python prints.

But in this case I can guess what the problem is. Like most C-inspired 
languages, Python uses backslashes to put in special characters: e.g. \n 
for newline, \t for tab, and \f for formfeed.

So when you try to open "D:\file" you are actually looking for a file on 
D drive called (chr(12) + "ile"), not "file".

The solution to this is to remember that Windows accepts forward slashes 
as well as backslashes, and always use the forward slash. So try:

open("D:/file") 

and see if that works.


>>> print "D:\file"
D:
  ile
>>> print "D:/file"
D:/file





-- 
Steven


From gerald.britton at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:27:36 2010
From: gerald.britton at gmail.com (Gerald Britton)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:27:36 -0500
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style
In-Reply-To: <4B731D62.1010004@stoneleaf.us>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<4B7229D2.8060704@tim.thechases.com> <4B731D62.1010004@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <5d1a32001002101327j1e2ceff3vd899d493f68443f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Ethan Furman <ethan at stoneleaf.us> wrote:
> Tim Chase wrote:
>>
>> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?
>>
>> -tkc
>
> If one branch is only a few lines, it comes first. ?As often as not, that
> tiny branch is checking for errors, and the "else" branch doesn't need to be
> indented.
>
> def func(arg1):
> ? ?if arg1 is 'stupid':
> ? ? ? ?raise ValueError("that's a stupid argument!")
> ? ?do_something
> ? ?do_something_else
> ? ?etc, etc
>
>
> ~Ethan~
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Something similar in a for-loop:

for x in y:
   if not should_process(x): continue

  # process x

-- 
Gerald Britton


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:33:41 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:33:41 -0800
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002101333q64006b8bm29ad9b7f82a60973@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:03 PM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

> >What are y and z?
>
>   x = "%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents())
>
> where the variable table represents a BeautifulSoup.Tag instance.
>
> >Are they unicode or strings?
>
> The first item (table['id']) is unicode, and the second is str.
>

The problem is you are mixing unicode and strings; if you want to  support
unicode at all, you should use it -everywhere- within your program.

At the entry-points, you should convert from strings to unicode, then use
unicode -exclusively-.

Here, you are trying to combine a unicode variable with a string variable,
and Python is -trying- to convert it for you, but it can't. I suspect you
aren't actually realizing this implicit conversion is going on: Python's
trying to produce an output string according to what you've requested. To do
that, it is upgrading x from string to unicode, and then writing to that
string first table['id'] then table.tr.renderContents().

Its the table.tr.renderContents that, I believe, is your problem: it is a
byte string, but it contains encoded data. You have to 'upgrade' it to
unicode before you can pump it over into x, because Python doesn't know what
encoding that is. It just knows there's a character somewhere in there that
doesn't fit into ASCII.

I can't quite tell you what the encoding is, though it may be UTF8. Try:
table.tr.renderContents().decode("utf8")

Its an easy mistake to make.

To further illustrate, do this:

>>> "%s %s" % (u'hi', u'bye')
u'hi bye'

Even though you're assigning a regular string to "x", you're using a format
str to merge in a unicode string to it. So Python implicitly upgrades your
format string, as if you had typed:

>>> u"%s %s" % (u'hi', 'bye')

Upgrading a string to unicode is easy, provided a string contains nothing
but plain ASCII. The moment it contains encoded data, the default
translation fails. So you have to explicitly tell Python how to convert the
byte string back into unicode-- meaning, you have to decode it.

Take this example:

>>> s = u"He\u2014llo".encode("utf8")
>>> s
'He\xe2\x80\x94llo'
>>> "%s %s" % (u'hi', s)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe2 in position 2:
ordinal not in range(128)
>>> "%s %s" % (u'hi', s.decode("utf8"))
u'hi He\u2014llo'

I started out with a string, "s", containing Hello with an em-dash stuck in
the middle. I encoded it as UTF8: its now a byte string  similar to what may
exist on any webpage you get. Remember, pure "unicode" exists only in
memory. Everything on the internet or a file is /encoded/. You work with
unicode in memory, then encode it to some form when writing it out--
anywhere.

When I first try to combine the two, I get an error like you got.

But if I explicitly decode my 's', it all works fine. The encoded form is
translated back into unicode.

As for how to debug and deal with issues like this... never mix unicode and
regular strings, use unicode strings exclusively in your logic, and decode
as early as possible. Then the only problem you're likely to run into is
situations where a claimed encoding/charset is a lie. (Web servers sometimes
claim charset/encoding A, or a file may claim charset/encoding B, even
though the file was written out by someone with charset/encoding C... and
there's no easy way to go around fixing such situations)

HTH,
--S
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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:39:33 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:39:33 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B72CBFF.9020500@optimum.net>
	<0382bdeb$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<m2k4ulx7r8.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<0382ef76$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <m2fx58ydm2.fsf@googlemail.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:31:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>
>> It's not ideal, but you can use a decorator like this to solve this
>> problem:
>> 
>> def bindfunction(f):
>>     def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
>>         return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
>>     bound_f.__name__ = f.__name__
>>     return bound_f
>
> Ah, very nice. Perhaps it's better to use functools.wraps?
>
> import functools
>
> def bindfunction(f):
>     @functools.wraps(f)
>     def bound_f(*args, **kwargs):
>         return f(bound_f, *args, **kwargs)
>     return bound_f

I think I wrote this before functools :).  Anyway it still doesn't work
with mutually recursive functions.  I also tried another approach (can't
find the file anymore, so I've redone it, sorry no time to make it very
readable) as below.  It doesn't require an extra first argument for the
function and it takes care of mutually recursive functions if used as in
the example.


def bindglobals(*args):
    """
    Binds all the globals in all the arguments which must be functions.
    return the new bound functions.  When called with a single argument,
    return the bound function so it can be used as a decorator.  It is
    assumed that all argument are functions and have the same global
    namespace
    """
    function_names = [f.__name__ for f in args]
    def get_global(f, n):
        d = f.func_globals
        if n not in d:
            d = d['__builtins__'].__dict__
        return d[n]
    bound_globals = dict(
        (n, get_global(f, n))
        for f in args for n in f.func_code.co_names
        if n not in function_names
        )
    bound_functions = [
        type(f)(f.func_code, bound_globals, f.func_name,
                f.func_defaults, f.func_closure)
        for f in args
        ]
    bound_globals.update(zip(function_names, bound_functions))
    if len(args) == 1:
        return bound_functions[0]
    else:
        return bound_functions

# Example

@bindglobals
def fac(n):
    return 1 if n <= 1 else n*fac(n - 1)

# Decorator syntax cannot be used with mutually recursive functions:

def even(n):
    return True if not n else odd(n - 1)

def odd(n):
    return False if not n else even(n - 1)

even, odd = bindglobals(even, odd)

# Example in action:

>>> fac(10)
3628800
>>> f = fac
>>> fac = 'foo'
>>> f(10)
3628800
>>> even(5), odd(5)
(False, True)
>>> e, o = even, odd
>>> even, odd = 'spam', 'eggs'
>>> e(5), o(5)
(False, True)

This is proof of concept stuff - probably very fragile!

-- 
Arnaud


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Feb 10 16:43:14 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:43:14 -0800
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002101343h5a853325g74c8b470735b95e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:03 PM, kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:
> In <402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81 at m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
<huge snip>
>>It sounds like someone, probably beautiful soup, is trying to turn
>>your strings into unicode. A full stacktrace would be useful to see
>>who did what where.
>
> Unfortunately, there's not much in the stacktrace:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./download_tt.py", line 427, in <module >
>    x = "%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents())
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 41:
ordinal not in range(128)

Think I've found the problem. According to the BeautifulSoup docs,
renderContents() returns
a (by default, UTF-8-encoded) str [i.e. byte sequence] as opposed to
unicode[i.e. abstract code point sequence]
.
Thus, as was said previously, you're combining the unicode from
table['id']and the
str from renderContents(),
so Python tries to automatically+implicitly convert the str to unicode by
decoding it as ASCII.
However, it's not ASCII but UTF-8, hence you get the error about it having
non-ASCII bytes.

Solution: Convert the output of renderContents() back to unicode.

x = u"%s %s" % (table['id'], table.tr.renderContents().decode('utf8'))

Now only unicode objects are being combined.

Your problem is particularly ironic considering how well BeautifulSoup
handles Unicode overall;
I was unable to locate a renderContents() equivalent that returned unicode.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 16:46:19 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 21:46:19 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
> level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language
> spec.

Python doesn't have "copyable reference values" in the Python level. It 
has objects.

It seems to me that your argument is based on the premises:

(1) that the "value" of a variable is not what 99.99% of people would 
describe as the value, but is some hidden, implementation dependent 
"pointer" instead;

(2) that "pointer" doesn't necessarily mean what 99% of people who 
learned C or Pascal understand by pointer;

(3) that mangling both common English and programmers' expectations in 
that fashion is somehow more accurate and more useful than using the 35 
year old term "call by object" (or "call by object reference");

(4) and, presumably because of some deeply-held belief that the only 
parameter passing strategies that we're allowed to talk about are "call 
by value" and "call by reference", no matter how much violence we do to 
the concept of both value and pointer, Python and Java must be call-by-
value since they clearly aren't call-by-reference.


Of these, the only one that I consider value is that Python and Java are 
not call-y-reference. Otherwise, I reject all these premises, and 
consequently none of your arguments make the slightest sense to me. You 
keep talking about Python operating on pointers. I've never used a single 
pointer in 10+ years of Python coding, no matter how many times you tell 
me I have. What the implementation of the Python virtual machine does is 
not what I do high-level Python code, and the implementation is not the 
language.



-- 
Steven


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:47:19 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:47:19 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0382b08c$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002100756h57d9eb94h78fe68c98a0ed5c2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2306.1265822617.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2bpfwyd94.fsf@googlemail.com>

MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> writes:


> Does this mean that Python needs, say, __function__ (and perhaps also
> __module__)?

See PEP 3130 "Access to Current Module/Class/Function" (rejected)
(http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3130/)

-- 
Arnaud


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 16:47:44 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:47:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "if {negative}" vs. "if {positive}" style (was: New to Python)
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom> 
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<mailman.2269.1265773024.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41a79d8c-65d2-41e3-bb61-5a987b40be1b@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 7:36?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Larry Hudson wrote:
> > But a minor rearrangement is simpler, and IMHO clearer:
>
> > if 'mystring' not in s:
> > ? ? ?print 'not found'
> > else:
> > ? ? ?print 'foundit'
> > ? ? ?print 'processing'
>
> I've always vacillated on whether that would better be written as
> Larry does, or as
>
> ? ?if 'mystring' in s
> ? ? ?print 'foundit'
> ? ? ?print 'processing'
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ?print 'not found'
[pass]
> Any thoughts on how others make the choice?


I almost always arrange it as follows, regardless of the size of the
blocks or whether the condition is negated or not:

if (typical-condition):
    typical-case
else:
    exceptional-case

In particular I almost always test if something is not None, because
being None is almost always the exceptional case:

if x is not None:
    ...
else:
    ...

However, whenever the exceptional case action is to break, return,
continue, or raise an exception, I'll test for it and leave the
typical case unnested:

if (exceptional-condition):
    exceptional-case
typical-case

No, it deosn't bother me in the least that I sometimes test for the
exceptional case and sometimes for the typical.

Whenever there is no typical case or exceptional case I'll go for the
simpler condition.


Carl Banks


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb 10 16:49:40 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:49:40 -0300
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:59:41 -0300, Muhammad Alkarouri  
<malkarouri at gmail.com> escribi?:

> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> inside it, other than using its explicit name?
> In a function like f below:
>
> def f(*args):
>     f.args = args
>     print args
>
> is there any other way?

See this:

>>> def foo(): pass
...
>>> import sys
>>> sys.getrefcount(foo)
2

The 2 means that there is a *single* reference to the function - the foo  
name in the global namespace. No other reference exists, there is no  
hidden attribute somewhere that you may use. If you want another way to  
reach the function, you'll have to add it yourself.

I've written a decorator for "injecting" a __function__ name into the  
function namespace, but I can't find it anywhere.  I think I implemented  
it by adding a fake additional argument and replacing LOAD_GLOBAL with  
LOAD_NAME in the bytecode.

> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a
> valid one at the moment, sorry.

One reason would be to write truly recursive functions (currently, a  
recursive call involves a name lookup, which could potentially return a  
different function). Another one, to implement some kind of tail call  
optimization.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 10 16:55:07 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:55:07 -0500
Subject: Creating formatted output using picture strings
In-Reply-To: <hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hktv7q$va3$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<mailman.2287.1265799051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hku65i$fct$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c3dfe1d1002100446j4fdee033v44570aaae41c0d21@mail.gmail.com>
	<1265822561.1942.1359302945@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2307.1265822620.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkv32g$lla$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b732b20$0$5011$607ed4bc@cv.net>

On 2/10/2010 2:57 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-02-10, python at bdurham.com<python at bdurham.com>  wrote:
>
> [regardning "picture" output format specifiers]
>
>> I was thinking that there was a built-in function for this
>> common(?) use case
>
> I haven't seen that paradigm since my one-and-only exposure to
> COBOL in a class I took back in 1979.  Is the "picture" thing
> commonly used in other places than COBOL?
>

FWIW, Microsoft Excel supports "Custom" numeric cell formats that use a 
PICTURE-like syntax.

-John


From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Wed Feb 10 16:57:09 2010
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:57:09 -0500
Subject: New to Python
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002101318w2b72f255ga4ee2b643a8ac66d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14Cdnb6rubmdUOzWnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<ybmdnRFZZ_3nvu_WnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@giganews.com>
	<6eudnY6p35_ute_WnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<mailman.2272.1265774639.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<SaqdneoNYKghFe_WnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom>
	<7a9c25c21002101318w2b72f255ga4ee2b643a8ac66d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1265839029.5997.11.camel@aalcdl07>

On Wed, 2010-02-10 at 13:18 -0800, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> 
> The original code:
> 
> 
> s = f.readline()
> if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
> if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
> if 'mystring' in s:
>   print 'processing'
> 
> 
> ... will only work on Python 2.x, as print is being used as a
> statement. If you change print to a function, that code will work in
> either Python 2.x or Python 3.x.
> 
> 
> However, in both CPython and IronPython, the above is provably correct
> code. It works fine: with those five lines alone, you are guaranteed
> to get 'foundit' followed by 'processing' if mystring is in s. With
> those five lines alone, you must get that result. If you aren't, then
> there's something else going on before or after-- and its not about
> IronPython vs CPython. To help diagnose what's wrong, copy and paste
> -real- results from a command prompt or interpreter when you run it,
> providing complete code. Something else is going wrong, you're looking
> in the wrong place to find the solution.

One other assumption that you are making is that f is a file-like object
that supports a reasonalbe readline function.

Quin: can you Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V the following code into a python file, by
itself, and run it to reproduce your problem?

from StringIO import StringIO
f = StringIO('This string contains mystring')
s = f.readline()
if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
if 'mystring' in s:
   print 'processing'

# Should print:
# foundit
# processing
f = StringIO('This string does not contain MyStRiNg')
s = f.readline()
if 'mystring' in s: print 'foundit'
if 'mystring' not in s: print 'not found'
if 'mystring' in s:
   print 'processing'
# Should print:
# not found

And please, humor me and copy and paste the exact results as returned by
your IronPython interpreter. 





From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 17:02:27 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:02:27 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
>> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
>> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
>> language spec.
>>
[snip]
>>
>> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
>> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
>> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
>> might not even make sense.
>>
>> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
>> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
>> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
>> integer, in IronPython it's not.
>>
> You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
> constructed definition above

No, it's not bizarre, it's the standard general language independent definition.

And since I'm referring to an external definition (Java) it's not mine, either. :-)


> as a pointer does not allow you to access
> the value that is "pointed to". So I fail to see why you feel its its
> introduction is necessary.

Python provides a number of ways to access the object pointed to.

Attribute access, indexing, and operators access the objects pointed to.

For example,

   x = s[0]

accesses the object that s points (refers) to.

While 'is', 'id' and assignment operate on the pointers (references) themselves.

So there's one set of language features that operate on pointers, and one set of 
language features that operate on the pointed to objects. This is so also in 
Java and C#. For example.


> Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
> id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
> expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
> access to the referenced value.

Yes, the id does not give you access to the referenced object.


> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
> the value for which the id() value was provided.

No, I don't disagree with that.

It would be excessively inefficient to do, involving enumeration of all objects.


> So in your world it's unnecessary for pointers to point to anything (or
> references to refer to something)? For someone who cheerfully admits to
> being wrong from time to time (an admirable characteristic) you are
> certainly difficult to convince on this point. One wonders what further
> hand-waving will follow.

He he, "further" handwaiving: you're good at unsubstantiated allegations.

I generally strive to provide concrete examples, and you know it.

Anywyay, treating the first sentence as a genuine question: in the most likely 
interpretation it seems that you're conflating id's with pointers. An id() value 
uniquely represents a pointer (i.e., the identity of the object pointed to). It 
is not itself a pointer since it lack any pointer semantics.

For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in Python 
there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to anything, namely as 
exemplified by

    def foo():
        print( x )
        x = "whatever"

The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says 
something like "unbound". Which means the same.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 17:09:25 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:09:25 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ethan Furman:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to 
>> argue with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.
> 
> It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who 
> are attempting to teach him.  At the rate it's going, though, I don't 
> see myself buying any book he produces.
> 
> Besides the arrogant attitude, he is wrong on so many things about 
> Python it is truly stunning.

That's bullshit. I am probably wrong about many Python things, for this is so no 
matter the language and the practictioner, but not any that you know about.


>  He seems to have confidence born of 
> ignorance... a scary sight to see.
> 
> In the spirit of being helpful and not just being a jerk myself:
> 
> Alf,
> 
> Using smileys after declaring somebody is mistaken/wrong/etc makes you 
> look bad.
> 
> Not attempting to learn the language makes you look like an arrogant 
> idiot (case in point: passing-by-object).
> 
> Accusing anyone and everyone that criticizes you of making ad hominem 
> (sp?) attacks makes you look like a whiner.
> 
> After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python, I 
> might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than winning 
> presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding is not 
> worth paying for.
> 
> Hoping-this-helps-but-not-really-expecting-it-to-ly yours,

It's yet another ad hominem attack, which means that you're painfully aware of 
supporting an untenable technical position, or supporting a clique of people.

It also reflects rather badly on you.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 10 17:13:06 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:13:06 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B732F72.1030208@optimum.net>

On 2/10/2010 1:38 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python, I
> might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than winning
> presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding is not
> worth paying for.
>

Alf, here's my suggestion on how to respond to people's criticisms of 
your technical prowess: come up with the "best ever" description of 
Python's variable-assignment and argument-passing schemes, and place the 
description in your manuscript [1]. Section 2.4, "Naming things", 
currently does not address the issues discussed in this thread ("pass by 
XXX", etc.).

HTH,
John

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-December/1229932.html


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:19:50 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:19:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
Message-ID: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to right a server that needs specific information for each
client accessing it.  The easiest way I could think of doing this is
keeping this information based on ip address (the information is only
valid for a short time).  I know there is no was to get the client's
address directly and have seen a few examples of subclassing the
SimpleXMLRPCServer like this:

class RPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer):

def _dispatch(self, method, params):
"""Extend dispatch, adding client info to some parameters."""
if method in ({my list of methods I needed client address}):
return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method,
params+(self.client_address,))
return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method, params);


but to be honest I don't understand what's going on there or how to
use it.  Would anyone be able to explain this to me?


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:19:50 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:19:50 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <m27hqkybqx.fsf@googlemail.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:
[...]
> That's bullshit.
[...]
> not any that you know about.
[...]
> yet another ad hominem attack
[...]
> It also reflects rather badly on you.
[...]
> - Alf

Alf, 

The above was extracted from the last post from you but I could have
picked almost any of your recent endeavours.  I've come to the
conclusion that you're not a cute furry alien with a long nose.  You're
a big bad troll!

-- 
Arnaud


From icanbob at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:19:55 2010
From: icanbob at gmail.com (bobicanprogram)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:19:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: strange issue with C extension using Py_BuildValue
Message-ID: <f595b93d-3b53-4e6f-bfde-1c046a8b7d6e@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

I'm am having "strange" problems with the code snip below.

When this code is built on a 64bit Linux,  it would appear to work
flawlessly.    When the source is rebuilt on a 32bit Linux it begins
to crack in strange ways.   The issue seems to be associated with the
sender field in the Py_BuildValue call.    The fact that sender is a
pointer should mean that its value is an unsigned integer.    However,
on the 32 bit build the failure is that the msgPtr->data value is
"messed up".   If the format associated with the sender (a pointer)
from "L" to "i" things work on the 32 bit side but break on the 64 bit
side.

I fully understand that an address will be stored differently on the
64bit vs. the 32bit systems.  The problem is that the code is
recompiled from source in both cases so shouldn't the "L" format work
as expected in both architectures?    Furthermore,  how can an
incorrect format result in messing up the field which follows?

Thanks in advance for any help.

bob
PS.
The Python side using this extension isn't expecting to do anything
with the sender parameter other than store it for later use as a
parameter in a Reply() function call.   ie. an address goes from
extension ->Python -> extension.

========= begin code snip ===================
static PyObject *simpl_receive(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
int ret;
char *sender;
FCMSG_REC *msgPtr;

// call the actual simpl C library function
ret = Receive(&sender, NULL, 0);

// what sort of message are we dealing with?
if (ret > 0) // message
	{
	msgPtr = (FCMSG_REC *)sender;
	return( Py_BuildValue("iLz#", ret, sender, &msgPtr->data, ret) );
	}

========== end code snip ============


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 10 17:30:24 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:30:24 +1300
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkq0aj$v4s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b712919$0$6584$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <hkvc20$3gu$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <4b712919$0$6584$9b4e6d93 at newsspool3.arcor-online.net>, Stefan 
Behnel wrote:

> Usually PyPI.

Where do you think these tools come from? They don?t write themselves, you 
know.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb 10 17:37:36 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:37:36 -0300
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkum2p$4i0$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7xnsylwx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:15:22 -0300, Grant Edwards  
<invalid at invalid.invalid> escribi?:
> On 2010-02-09, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>> En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:10:56 -0300, Grant Edwards
>> <invalid at invalid.invalid> escribi?:
>>
>>> What's the correct way to measure small periods of elapsed
>>> time.  I've always used time.clock() in the past:
>>> However on multi-processor machines that doesn't work.
>>> Sometimes I get negative values for delta.  According to
>>> google, this is due to a bug in Windows that causes the value
>>> of time.clock() to be different depending on which core in a
>>> multi-core CPU you happen to be on.   [insert appropriate
>>> MS-bashing here]
>>
>> I'm not sure you can blame MS of this issue; anyway, this
>> patch should fix the problem:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?id=896256
>
> I'm curious why it wouldn't be Microsoft's fault, because
>
>  A) Everything is Microsoft's fault. ;)
>
>  B) If a patch to MS Windows fixes the problem, how is it not a
>     problem in MS Windows?

I won't argue against A) because its truthness (?) is self-evident :)

99% of my code does not run in Python 3.x; I may fix it and it will  
eventually run fine, but that doesn't mean it's *my* fault.

The original problem was with the RDTSC instruction on multicore CPUs;  
different cores may yield different results because they're not  
synchronized at all times.

Windows XP was launched in 2001, and the first dual core processors able  
to execute Windows were AMD Opteron and IBM Pentium D, both launched  
around April 2005 (and targeting the server market, not the home/desktop  
market of Windows XP).
How could MS know in 2001 of a hardware issue that would happen four years  
in the future?
Guido seems very jealous of his time machine and does not lend it to  
anyone.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 10 17:40:34 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:40:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkvcl2$s2e$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-09, Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:

> In code, using SetProcessAffinityMask and related functions:
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms686223(VS.85).aspx

That solves the problem.  If I don't set the process affinity
mask, I regularly get measurements that are off by 6ms.  I
presume 6ms is the skew between the two cores' performance
counter values.  I don't know if that difference is stable or
how it varies, but now it doesn't matter. :)

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! If our behavior is
                                  at               strict, we do not need fun!
                               visi.com            


From misceverything at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 17:55:22 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:55:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<m2zl3i3xvf.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <96353030-0e0c-4035-ae4a-5ab475251d4b@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 9, 4:25?pm, David Bolen <db3l.... at gmail.com> wrote:
> David Bolen <db3l.... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Not from my past experience - the system account (LocalSystem for
> > services) can be surprising, in that it's pretty much unlimited access
> > to all local resources, but severely limited in a handful of cases,
> > one of which is any attempt to access the network. ?I can't recall for
> > sure if it's an absolute block, or if in some cases you can configure
> > around it (e.g., it might use a null session for remote shares which
> > can be enabled through the registry on the target machine). ?I've
> > basically stuck "LocalSystem = no network" in my head from past
> > experience.
>
> Given it's been a few years, I decided to try some tests, and the
> above is too simplistic.
>
> The LocalSystem account runs without any local Windows credentials
> (e.g., not like a logged in user), which has several consequences.
> One is that you can't access any network resources that require such
> credentials (like shares). ?However, there's no sort of firewall
> filtering or anything, so plain old TCP/IP connections are fine.
> Unless, of course, the client being used also has other needs for
> local Windows credentials, independent or as a pre-requisite to the
> network operations.
>
> So backing up a bit, the TCP/IP connection that plink is making is not
> inherently disabled by running under LocalSystem, but it's certainly
> possible that plink is trying to identify the user under which it is
> operating to perhaps identify ssh keys or other local resources it
> needs to operate. ?You might be able to cover this with command line
> options (e.g., plink supports "-i" to specify a key file to use), but
> you'll also need to ensure that the file you are referencing is
> readable by the LocalSystem account.
>
> One of the other responders had a very good point about locating plink
> in the first place too. ?Services run beneath an environment that is
> inherited from the service control manager process, and won't include
> various settings that are applied to your user when logged in,
> especially things like local path changes, and working directories.
> Should you change the system path (via the environment settings),
> you'll need to reboot for the service control manager to notice - I
> don't think you can restart it without a reboot.
>
> So it's generally safer to be very clear, and absolute when possible,
> in a service for paths to external resources.
>
> The prior advice of running the service as an identified user (e.g.,
> with local credentials) is still good as it does remove most of these
> issues since if you can run the script manually under that user you
> know it'll work under service. ?But it's not a hard requirement.
>
> If your script is dying such that a top level exception is being
> raised you should be able to find it in the application event log. ?So
> that might give further information on what about the different
> environment is problematic.
>
> You can also use the win32traceutil module to help with grabbing debug
> output on the fly. ?Import the module in your service, which will
> implicitly redirect stdout/stderr to a trace buffer. ?Run the same
> win32traceutil module from the command line in another window. ?Then
> start the service. ?Any stdout/stderr will be reflected in the other
> window. ?Can't catch everything (suppressed exceptions, or I/O that
> doesn't flow through the script's stdout/stderr), but again might help
> point in the right direction.
>
> -- David

Great suggestions once again - I did verify that it was at least
running the plink.exe binary when under LocalSystem by having the
service run "plink.exe > C:\plinkoutput.txt" - this worked fine.  And,
as I mentioned, it's now working just fine when running under a
regular admin account.  So, I think that's going to be my solution to
avoid any further issues.  My best guess at this point (as you
mentioned), is that plink.exe is doing _something_ network-related
that LocalSystem doesn't have the privileges to do - what exactly it
is, I have no idea.  I may play around with it some more later, but
running the service under an admin account should be a perfectly
acceptable solution.

Also, I will be writing other Python apps that the service will be
executing - so it goes without saying that I'll be including a log to
file option :)  Thanks again for all your guys' help!


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 17:56:36 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:56:36 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
>> level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language
>> spec.
> 
> Python doesn't have "copyable reference values" in the Python level. It 
> has objects.

Given

   s = [1]
   t = s         # Copies reference.
   t[0] = 2      # Changes referenced object via copied reference.
   print( s )    # Checks the object via the original reference.

your argument that the copied reference does not exist, is just silly.

And you know it.



> It seems to me that your argument is based on the premises:
> 
> (1) that the "value" of a variable is not what 99.99% of people would 
> describe as the value, but is some hidden, implementation dependent 
> "pointer" instead;

No. The Python language spec defines what value of an object means. And people 
use "value" with many different meanings, using Common Sense to arbitrate.

It would be senseless to try to pin down a single meaning of the word "value".

You're arguing against a position unrelated to mine.


> (2) that "pointer" doesn't necessarily mean what 99% of people who 
> learned C or Pascal understand by pointer;

No.

But although this is "just" a terminological issue, it's worth discussing.

I refuse to believe that 99% of C and Pascal programmers believe that "pointer" 
only refers to the pointer implementation in their language of choice.

In my first article in this thread I specifically referred to the Java language 
specification, which says, first sentence in ?4.3.1 in the 3.0 spec, that


   "The reference values (often just references) are pointers to these objects,
    and a special null reference, which refers to no object."


which is relevant to Python because Java has the same semantics, although Java 
"NullPointerException" is called "unbound" in Python (but this is again just 
terminology, not semantics). I.e., the general pointer term /can/ be used, and 
is used, for reference values. Only a willingness to misinterpret can cause 
confusion, at least when the terminology is defined, as I've done all the time.

Secondly I referred (actually that was in response to you) to a Stanford 
University introduction to pointers, comparing four languages including Java.

I didn't refer you to Wikipedia because that article seems to lack mention of 
reference based languages and does include a reference to an article that I 
wrote about pointers in C++ (now off-net), and given the noise level here it 
would therefore probably not help.


> (3) that mangling both common English and programmers' expectations in 
> that fashion is somehow more accurate and more useful than using the 35 
> year old term "call by object" (or "call by object reference");

No, I haven't stated any opposition to using that term; the archives show the 
opposite.

So for the second time here you're arguing against a silly position that I do 
not hold.


> (4) and, presumably because of some deeply-held belief that the only 
> parameter passing strategies that we're allowed to talk about are "call 
> by value" and "call by reference", no matter how much violence we do to 
> the concept of both value and pointer, Python and Java must be call-by-
> value since they clearly aren't call-by-reference.

Well that's the third time here that you're arguing against a silly position 
that I do not hold.


> Of these, the only one that I consider value is that Python and Java are 
> not call-y-reference. Otherwise, I reject all these premises,

Good rejection as far as 1, 3 and 4 are concerned.

Regarding the term "pointer", your point 2, I strongly encourage you to seek out 
the sources I've referenced and quoted.

For without a common language it's difficult to communicate, and if Python 
programmers should continue to not understand common terms then that would just 
further flame wars such as this thread has escalated to. Please seek out 
sources. Don't just take my word, instead, read e.g. what I've quoted, try out 
the example I've given, and so on: be critical (to your own assumptions also!).


> and 
> consequently none of your arguments make the slightest sense to me.

Well, you'd first have to examine at least one of my arguments. In this article 
you haven't, instead attacking a number of positions that I haven't advocated 
and do not hold, except for your silly denial of existence of references at the 
top. But that's just silly  --  consider the concrete example given.


> You 
> keep talking about Python operating on pointers. I've never used a single 
> pointer in 10+ years of Python coding, no matter how many times you tell 
> me I have. What the implementation of the Python virtual machine does is 
> not what I do high-level Python code, and the implementation is not the 
> language.

Here again you're conflating things and engage in a kind of denial coupled with 
a correct argument. It's hard to argue against such confusion. Instead I've 
tried above to address your only relevant point, by a concrete example.

Summing up, denying the existence of references, as you do at the top, is just 
silly; do consider the code example.

Your points 1, 3 and 4 attack positions that I do not hold and have not advocated.

Your point 2, about terminology, is important on its own. And I suggest you 
check out the references I've given. And read what I quoted from the language 
specification of a language with the same semantics as Python.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From dmalcolm at redhat.com  Wed Feb 10 18:03:32 2010
From: dmalcolm at redhat.com (David Malcolm)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:32 -0500
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <923ca72c-7b21-4abe-920f-b0b148df8ec7@t42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<923ca72c-7b21-4abe-920f-b0b148df8ec7@t42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1265843012.8386.17.camel@brick>

On Wed, 2010-02-10 at 12:17 -0800, Anthony Tolle wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2:09 pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> > Some people have mathphobia.  I'm developing a wicked case of
> > Unicodephobia.
> > [snip]
> 
> Some general advice (Looks like I am reiterating what MRAB said -- I
> type slower :):
> 
> 1. If possible, use unicode strings for everything.  That is, don't
> use both str and unicode within the same project.
> 
> 2. If that isn't possible, convert strings to unicode as early as
> possible, work with them that way, then convert them back as late as
> possible.
> 
> 3. Know what type of string you are working with!  If a function
> returns or accepts a string value, verify whether the expected type is
> unicode or str.
> 
> 4. Consider switching to Python 3.x, since there is only one string
> type (unicode).

Some further nasty gotchas:

5. Be wary of the encoding of sys.stdout (and stderr/stdin), e.g. when
issuing a "print" statement:  they can change on Unix depending on
whether the python process is directly connected to a tty or not.

(a) If they're directly connected to a tty, their encoding is taken from
the locale, UTF-8 on my machine:
[david at brick ~]$ python -c 'print u"\u03b1\u03b2\u03b3"'
???
(prints alpha, beta, gamma to terminal, though these characters might
not survive being sent in this email)

(b) If they're not (e.g. cronjob, daemon, within a shell pipeline, etc)
their encoding is the default encoding, which is typically ascii;
rerunning the same command, but piping into "cat":
[david at brick ~]$ python -c 'print u"\u03b1\u03b2\u03b3"'| cat
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position
0-2: ordinal not in range(128)

(c) These problems can lurk in sources and only manifest themselves
during _deployment_ of code.  You can set PYTHONIOENCODING=ascii in the
environment to force (a) to behave like (b), so that your code will fail
whilst you're _developing_ it, rather than on your servers at midnight:
[david at brick ~]$ PYTHONIOENCODING=ascii python -c 'print u"\u03b1\u03b2
\u03b3"'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position
0-2: ordinal not in range(128)

(Given the above, it could be argued perhaps that one should never
"print" unicode instances, and instead should write the data to
file-like objects, specifying an encoding.  Not sure).

6. If you're using pygtk (specifically the "pango" module, typically
implicitly imported), be warned that it abuses the C API to set the
default encoding inside python, which probably breaks any unicode
instances in memory at the time, and is likely to cause weird side
effects:
[david at brick ~]$ python
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jan 25 2010, 13:22:47) 
[GCC 4.4.2 20100121 (Red Hat 4.4.2-28)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
'ascii'
>>> import pango
>>> sys.getdefaultencoding()
'utf-8'
(the above is on Fedora 12, though I'd expect to see the same weirdness
on any linux distro running gnome 2)

Python 3 will probably make this all much easier; you'll still have to
care about encodings when dealing with files/sockets/etc, but it should
be much more clear what's going on.  I hope.

Hope this is helpful
Dave



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 18:11:10 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Feb 2010 23:11:10 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.10.23.11.10@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:02:27 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
> Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
> anything, namely as exemplified by
> 
>     def foo():
>         print( x )
>         x = "whatever"
> 
> The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says
> something like "unbound". Which means the same.

Not in plain language. NullPointerException means that x is assigned to a 
null pointer, and you have tried to follow that pointer. Unbound means 
that x has nothing assigned to it. Semantically, the difference is 
somewhat analogous to the situations:

"the president is dead, and a new president hasn't yet been appointed"
(the office of the president is currently assigned to a dead guy)

versus

"the king has dissolved parliament and with it the office of president"
(there is no president at all)

Now, of course we understand that in the implementation of CPython, local 
variables are stored efficiently in slots in an array, and you can't have 
empty slots: every address always has some bit pattern. It is very likely 
that the CPython implementation uses a nil pointer to indicate an empty 
slot just like Java does. The difference is that Java exposes that 
implementation decision as part of the language specification, while 
Python deliberately does not.

It isn't an accident that the Python exception describes the *semantics* 
of the error (x is not bound to any value) rather than the implementation 
detail (the slot known as x has a nil pointer in it). Semantically, the 
Python language treats the slot as empty and leaves the details of how 
the implementation recognises empty slots as an implementation decision.

I'm just as interested by the implementation decisions made in CPython as 
the next guy, but they don't effect the semantics of the high level 
Python language. Here is a thought experiment for you:

One can imagine an implementation of Python that eschews all pointers for 
some scheme by which objects are cleverly copied and synchronized as 
needed. Such an implementation would still be Python, but it would be 
entirely pointer-free.



-- 
Steven


From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 18:23:42 2010
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:23:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
Message-ID: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
and ']' means closed interval as in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_endpoints)

[1, 3]
[2, 9]
[10,13]
[11,12]

I want to get the following merged intervals.

[1,9]
[10,13]

Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
library?


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 18:34:05 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:34:05 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.10.23.11.10@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.23.11.10@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hkvflk$aie$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:02:27 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
>> Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
>> anything, namely as exemplified by
>>
>>     def foo():
>>         print( x )
>>         x = "whatever"
>>
>> The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says
>> something like "unbound". Which means the same.
> 
> Not in plain language. NullPointerException means that x is assigned to a 
> null pointer, and you have tried to follow that pointer. Unbound means 
> that x has nothing assigned to it.

No, it's the same.

    String x;
    somethingIDontRememberProbablyIo.println( x ) // Java equivalent

It's just different terminology, "NullPointerException" versus "unbound".

It's the same semantics.

Nothing substantial is changed by changing the Java message or changing the 
Python message.

The word is just a word.



> Semantically, the difference is 
> somewhat analogous to the situations:
> 
> "the president is dead, and a new president hasn't yet been appointed"
> (the office of the president is currently assigned to a dead guy)
> 
> versus
> 
> "the king has dissolved parliament and with it the office of president"
> (there is no president at all)
> 
> Now, of course we understand that in the implementation of CPython, local 
> variables are stored efficiently in slots in an array, and you can't have 
> empty slots: every address always has some bit pattern. It is very likely 
> that the CPython implementation uses a nil pointer to indicate an empty 
> slot just like Java does. The difference is that Java exposes that 
> implementation decision as part of the language specification, while 
> Python deliberately does not.

How a Python implementation implements local variables is irrelevant, except 
that since references to local variables can be copied and *live on*, be used, 
after a call, it has to work as if it uses implementation level pointers.

The notion of pointers (references) at the language level is not the same as the 
notion of pointers at the implementation level.

This is the same as the notion of integers at the Python 3.x level (unbounded 
values) is not the same as the notion of integers at the C or C# or Java level 
(depending on the Python implementation, bounded values with wrap-around or 
undefined behavior).

I.e. you're conflating two levels here.

You can perhaps more easily see that by considering an implementation of Python 
in Python, using some computed counter as object id's. It doesn't change the 
user view of copyable references. But it hides all that C pointer stuff two or 
three abstraction levels down so that it becomes meaningless to talk about it.


> It isn't an accident that the Python exception describes the *semantics* 
> of the error (x is not bound to any value) rather than the implementation 
> detail (the slot known as x has a nil pointer in it). Semantically, the 
> Python language treats the slot as empty and leaves the details of how 
> the implementation recognises empty slots as an implementation decision.
> 
> I'm just as interested by the implementation decisions made in CPython as 
> the next guy, but they don't effect the semantics of the high level 
> Python language.

Right.


> Here is a thought experiment for you:
> 
> One can imagine an implementation of Python that eschews all pointers for 
> some scheme by which objects are cleverly copied and synchronized as 
> needed. Such an implementation would still be Python, but it would be 
> entirely pointer-free.

Uhm, bad example (it wouldn't work exactly as described), but concerning what I 
think you're trying to /communicate/, that X at the Python level is not the same 
as X at the implementation level, like, 'int' at the Python 3.x level is not 
'int' in C, and like, "pointer" at the Python level is not "pointer" in C: yes.



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 10 18:35:19 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:35:19 -0000
Subject: Python Logic Map/Logic Flow Chart. (Example Provided)
References: <60293adf-71e9-4700-b2a8-ca12525ce7d0@e33g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2179.1265664914.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<656ca700-95e7-4f1b-b312-2b169e39c050@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2208.1265701309.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7xqg5s4a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:35:51 -0000, Gary Herron <gherron at digipen.edu>  
wrote:

> spike wrote:
>> On Feb 8, 1:35 pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>>
>>> spike wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone been able to come across a Python logic map or Python logic
>>>> flow chart?
>>>>       An example can be seen on the right under History:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet#History
>>>>       This would be very helpful for all users.
>>>>
>>> Huh???  What aspect of Python were you thinking of mapping out?
>>>
>>> Your example us a bad ascii art graph of -- I've no clue what?
>>>
>>> Gary Herron
>>>
>>
>> Do you know what "Logic" means? Guess not. Before you comedians quit
>> your day job some people are looking for information. If you have
>> nothing positive to say, go pester somewhere else.
>>
>> Grow up.
>>
>
> Why the attitude?  I wouldn't have asked for a clarification if I didn't  
> want to help.  However, I seriously have *no* idea what the OP has asked  
> for when he says "Python logic map".   Do you?  If so, then answer the  
> poor guy's question instead of whining at me.  (And I'll respectfully  
> read your answer, just to see how you interpret "Python logic map".)

Er, Gary, that *is* the OP.  He's just much better at being peeved than at  
clearly explaining what he wants.

And sorry, but I have no idea what Python logic maps or Python logic flow  
charts either, or even what a inter-network connectivity diagram might  
have to do with them.  An expansion of the original question is definitely  
in order.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 19:16:23 2010
From: wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com (dads)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:16:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sqlite3 bug?
Message-ID: <d6b16633-4d01-44bb-a64d-87772f12923a@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

When the method below is run it raises 'sqlite3.OperationalError: no
such table: dave'.
the arguments are ds = a datestamp and w = a string of digits. The
path of the db is
C:\sv_zip_test\2006\2006.db and the table is definitely named dave.
I've run the sql
in sql manager and it works. Is this a bug?


def findArchive(self, ds, w):

        year = ds.GetYear()
        if year < 2005:
            wx.MessageBox('Year out of Archive, check the date!')
            return

        year = str(year)
        archive = 'C:/sv_zip_test'
        dbfp = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(archive, year, year +
'.db'))
        if os.path.exists(dbfp):
            con = sqlite3.connect('dbfp')
            cur = con.cursor()
            #cur.execute("SELECT * FROM dave WHERE webno = ?", [w])
            cur.execute("SELECT * FROM dave")
            for r in cur:
                self.fil.AppendText(r[2] + '\n')
        else:
            wx.MessageBox('no db, %s' % dbfp)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 19:26:40 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 00:26:40 GMT
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.00.26.40@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:23:42 -0800, Peng Yu wrote:

> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('[' and
> ']' means closed interval as in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)
#Excluding_the_endpoints)

Not in the standard library. There may be third-party libraries that do 
it. Did you google "python interval"?




-- 
Steven


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Feb 10 19:38:13 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:38:13 -0600
Subject: sqlite3 bug?
In-Reply-To: <d6b16633-4d01-44bb-a64d-87772f12923a@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <d6b16633-4d01-44bb-a64d-87772f12923a@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B735175.9020704@tim.thechases.com>

dads wrote:
> When the method below is run it raises 'sqlite3.OperationalError: no
> such table: dave'.
> the arguments are ds = a datestamp and w = a string of digits. The
> path of the db is
> C:\sv_zip_test\2006\2006.db and the table is definitely named dave.
> I've run the sql
> in sql manager and it works. Is this a bug?
>
> dbfp = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(archive, year, year + '.db'))
> if os.path.exists(dbfp):
>    con = sqlite3.connect('dbfp')

did you mean

   connect(dbfp)

instead of

   connect('dbfp')

?

-tkc




From list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org  Wed Feb 10 19:44:13 2010
From: list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org (Terrence Cole)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:44:13 -0800
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
Message-ID: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>

Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) 
[GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
-0.7943282347242815
>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>> a ** b
(0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>> -abs(a ** b)
-0.7943282347242815

Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
variable version return a complex?

Cheers,
Terrence



From davidism at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 19:48:39 2010
From: davidism at gmail.com (David)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:48:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get __doc__ from main module in imported module.
Message-ID: <feec9d9b-6be7-4cc2-8602-7593d195f68f@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

I have a module toolkit.py with some functions I use often.  One of
these functions displays a usage message (__doc__).

def usage(messages=[], exit=-1):
    """Print the doc string as wells as any useful messages."""
    print(__doc__)
    for message in messages:
        print("\033[91m{}\033[0m".format(message))
    if exit >= 0:
        sys.exit(exit)

I import this module into another module, with the doc string I want
to display.  However, calling usage prints toolkit's doc string
(None), not the current module's doc string.

How can I access the top level module's doc string from toolkit?


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 10 19:50:50 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:50:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<Xns9D1BCAD3B50E1duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hkvk9a$46v$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <Xns9D1BCAD3B50E1duncanbooth at 127.0.0.1> Duncan Booth <duncan.booth at invalid.invalid> writes:

>kj <no.email at please.post> wrote:

>> But to ground
>> the problem a bit I'll say that the exception above happens during
>> the execution of a statement of the form:
>> 
>>   x = '%s %s' % (y, z)
>> 
>> Also, I found that, with the exact same values y and z as above,
>> all of the following statements work perfectly fine:
>> 
>>   x = '%s' % y
>>   x = '%s' % z
>>   print y
>>   print z
>>   print y, z
>> 

>One of y or z is unicode, the other is str.

Yes, that was the root of the problem.

>1. Print the repr of each value so you can see which is which.

Thanks for pointing out repr; it's really useful when dealing with
Unicode headaches.



Thanks for all the replies!

~K


From ahleniusm at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 20:17:17 2010
From: ahleniusm at gmail.com (m_ahlenius)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:17:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: question on storing dates in a tuple
Message-ID: <ca9f49fc-0930-41cc-9632-b7eba7619630@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a weird question about tuples.  I am getting some dates from a
mysql db, using the mysqldb interface.  I am doing a standard query
with several of the fields are "datetime" format in mysql.
When I retrieve and print them in python, they look fine.

eg.
storeddate = 2010-02-07 12:03:41

But when I append these dates  into a string to write to an ascii  log
file, they come out as:

datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 7, 12, 03, 41)    (or something along those
lines).

It appears that I am dealing with some sort of date object here.   So
I am just trying to understand what's going on, and whats the best
work with such objects.

thanks

'mark


From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 20:24:30 2010
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:24:30 +1100
Subject: strange issue with C extension using Py_BuildValue
In-Reply-To: <f595b93d-3b53-4e6f-bfde-1c046a8b7d6e@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <f595b93d-3b53-4e6f-bfde-1c046a8b7d6e@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B735C4E.3040408@gmail.com>

On 11/02/2010 9:19 AM, bobicanprogram wrote:
> I'm am having "strange" problems with the code snip below.
>
> When this code is built on a 64bit Linux,  it would appear to work
> flawlessly.    When the source is rebuilt on a 32bit Linux it begins
> to crack in strange ways.   The issue seems to be associated with the
> sender field in the Py_BuildValue call.    The fact that sender is a
> pointer should mean that its value is an unsigned integer.    However,
> on the 32 bit build the failure is that the msgPtr->data value is
> "messed up".   If the format associated with the sender (a pointer)
> from "L" to "i" things work on the 32 bit side but break on the 64 bit
> side.

I expect that in a 32bit build of linux, a "long long" (the 'L' format) 
is still 64 bits.  You probably want something like:

Py_BuildValue("iNz#", ret, PyLong_FromVoidPtr(sender), &msgPtr->data, ret);

and PyLong_AsVoidPtr() for the other direction.

HTH,

Mark


From mludvig at logix.net.nz  Wed Feb 10 20:25:10 2010
From: mludvig at logix.net.nz (Michal Ludvig)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:25:10 +1300
Subject: ignoring some placeholders in string formatting
Message-ID: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>

Hi all,

when I've got a string, say:

URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"

is it possible to fill in only 'session' and leave "%(message)s" as is
when it isn't present in the values dict?

For example:
URL % { 'session' : 123 }
raises KeyError because of missing 'message' in the dict.

I could indeed replace '%(session)s' with a string replace or regexp but
that's not very elegant ;-)

Is there any way to tell the formatter to use only what's available and
ignore the rest?

Thanks

Michal


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Feb 10 20:30:52 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:30:52 -0800
Subject: question on storing dates in a tuple
In-Reply-To: <ca9f49fc-0930-41cc-9632-b7eba7619630@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <ca9f49fc-0930-41cc-9632-b7eba7619630@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002101730t60532036i3ef4a853d10c2d9f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:17 PM, m_ahlenius <ahleniusm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a weird question about tuples. ?I am getting some dates from a
> mysql db, using the mysqldb interface. ?I am doing a standard query
> with several of the fields are "datetime" format in mysql.
> When I retrieve and print them in python, they look fine.
>
> eg.
> storeddate = 2010-02-07 12:03:41
>
> But when I append these dates ?into a string to write to an ascii ?log
> file, they come out as:
>
> datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 7, 12, 03, 41) ? ?(or something along those
> lines).
>
> It appears that I am dealing with some sort of date object here. ? So
> I am just trying to understand what's going on, and whats the best
> work with such objects.

http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime

>>> from datetime import datetime
>>> now = datetime.now()
>>> print str(now)
2010-02-10 17:22:12.459277
>>> print repr(now)
datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 10, 17, 22, 12, 459277)
>>> print (now,)
(datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 10, 17, 22, 12, 459277),)

tuples use repr() on their elements when they're converted to strings,
and repr() on datetime-s uses the constructor notation as opposed to
the more normal notation used by str(). Same sort of thing happens
with strings; note the presence/lack of quotes:

>>> string = "aa"
>>> print str(string)
aa
>>> print repr(string)
'aa'
>>> print (string,)
('aa',)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 20:31:37 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:31:37 +0100
Subject: Get __doc__ from main module in imported module.
In-Reply-To: <feec9d9b-6be7-4cc2-8602-7593d195f68f@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <feec9d9b-6be7-4cc2-8602-7593d195f68f@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hkvmi0$88f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* David:
> I have a module toolkit.py with some functions I use often.  One of
> these functions displays a usage message (__doc__).
> 
> def usage(messages=[], exit=-1):
>     """Print the doc string as wells as any useful messages."""
>     print(__doc__)
>     for message in messages:
>         print("\033[91m{}\033[0m".format(message))

Consider using a terminal control library such as 'curses' instead of embedding 
escape sequences directly in the text, since escape sequences vary from terminal 
to terminal.


>     if exit >= 0:
>         sys.exit(exit)
> 
> I import this module into another module, with the doc string I want
> to display.  However, calling usage prints toolkit's doc string
> (None), not the current module's doc string.

The function doesn't know where it's called from.

You have to tell it, or dynamically create a module-specific function.

One way to tell it is to pass the current module as an argument.


> How can I access the top level module's doc string from toolkit?

Like

     import __main__
     print_usage( __main__ )

with suitable definition of 'usage'.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 10 20:36:11 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:36:11 -0000
Subject: question on storing dates in a tuple
References: <ca9f49fc-0930-41cc-9632-b7eba7619630@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7xv2laia8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:17:17 -0000, m_ahlenius <ahleniusm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a weird question about tuples.  I am getting some dates from a
> mysql db, using the mysqldb interface.  I am doing a standard query
> with several of the fields are "datetime" format in mysql.
> When I retrieve and print them in python, they look fine.
>
> eg.
> storeddate = 2010-02-07 12:03:41
>
> But when I append these dates  into a string to write to an ascii  log
> file, they come out as:
>
> datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 7, 12, 03, 41)    (or something along those
> lines).
>
> It appears that I am dealing with some sort of date object here.   So
> I am just trying to understand what's going on, and whats the best
> work with such objects.

You're getting Python datetime objects:

rhodri at gnudebst:~$ python
Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec  7 2009, 18:43:55)
[GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import datetime
>>> now = datetime.datetime.today()
>>> print str(now)
2010-02-11 01:30:03.749223
>>> print repr(now)
datetime.datetime(2010, 2, 11, 1, 30, 3, 749223)


See http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime-objects for  
details of what you can do with them.  In your case, you probably just  
want to use "str()" to explicitly convert the object into a string.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 10 20:36:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:36:15 +0100
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
In-Reply-To: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
References: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B735F0F.6080503@sequans.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> I'm trying to right a server that needs specific information for each
> client accessing it.  The easiest way I could think of doing this is
> keeping this information based on ip address (the information is only
> valid for a short time).  I know there is no was to get the client's
> address directly and have seen a few examples of subclassing the
> SimpleXMLRPCServer like this:
>
> class RPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer):
>
> def _dispatch(self, method, params):
> """Extend dispatch, adding client info to some parameters."""
> if method in ({my list of methods I needed client address}):
> return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method,
> params+(self.client_address,))
> return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method, params);
>
>
> but to be honest I don't understand what's going on there or how to
> use it.  Would anyone be able to explain this to me?
>   
I don't know exactly what you are trying to do, but if your server 
requires informations from the client, it would be better to ask 
explicitly the client for those informations.
For instance, if a method requires te client IP address, then the IP 
address is definitely a parameter of the method.

JM


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Wed Feb 10 20:53:44 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:53:44 -0600
Subject: ignoring some placeholders in string formatting
In-Reply-To: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>
References: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>
Message-ID: <4B736328.806@tim.thechases.com>

Michal Ludvig wrote:
> URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
> 
> is it possible to fill in only 'session' and leave "%(message)s" as is
> when it isn't present in the values dict?
> 
> For example:
> URL % { 'session' : 123 }
> raises KeyError because of missing 'message' in the dict.
> 
> I could indeed replace '%(session)s' with a string replace or regexp but
> that's not very elegant ;-)

You can use a defaultdict instead of a regular dict:

   from collections import defaultdict
   d = defaultdict(str)
   d['session'] = 123
   URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
   print URL % d

-tkc





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 10 21:11:38 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 02:11:38 GMT
Subject: ignoring some placeholders in string formatting
References: <mailman.2337.1265852676.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.02.11.38@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:25:10 +1300, Michal Ludvig wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> when I've got a string, say:
> 
> URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
> 
> is it possible to fill in only 'session' and leave "%(message)s" as is
> when it isn't present in the values dict?

No, but instead see string templates:

http://docs.python.org/library/string.html#template-strings



-- 
Steven


From davidism at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 21:32:28 2010
From: davidism at gmail.com (David)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:32:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get __doc__ from main module in imported module.
References: <feec9d9b-6be7-4cc2-8602-7593d195f68f@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<hkvmi0$88f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7775b9dd-7692-4f43-92b3-9c155e9c21ff@a17g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

> > How can I access the top level module's doc string from toolkit?
>
> Like
>
> ? ? ?import __main__
> ? ? ?print_usage( __main__ )
>
> with suitable definition of 'usage'.
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

Problem solved!
Thanks for the other tips too.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 10 21:51:06 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:51:06 +0000
Subject: ignoring some placeholders in string formatting
In-Reply-To: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>
References: <4B735C76.9040505@logix.net.nz>
Message-ID: <4B73709A.8070201@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Michal Ludvig wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> when I've got a string, say:
> 
> URL="http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
> 
> is it possible to fill in only 'session' and leave "%(message)s" as is
> when it isn't present in the values dict?
> 
> For example:
> URL % { 'session' : 123 }
> raises KeyError because of missing 'message' in the dict.
> 
> I could indeed replace '%(session)s' with a string replace or regexp but
> that's not very elegant ;-)
> 
> Is there any way to tell the formatter to use only what's available and
> ignore the rest?
> 
You could write a class inheriting from dict which, for example, returns
"%(key)s" if the key "key" is absent:

 >>> class IgnoreDict(dict):
	def __getitem__(self, key):
		try:
			return dict.__getitem__(self, key)
		except KeyError:
			return "%%(%s)s" % key

		
 >>> d = {'session': 123}
 >>> URL = "http://xyz/blah?session=%(session)s&message=%(message)s"
 >>> URL % d

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
     URL % d
KeyError: 'message'
 >>> URL % IgnoreDict(d)
'http://xyz/blah?session=123&message=%(message)s'


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 21:51:42 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:51:42 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkvref$9p6$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Ethan Furman:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>
>>> Believe me Alf, the fact that people are taking the time to try to
>>> argue with you instead of just kill-filing you is a compliment.
>>
>> It's a compliment I am not paying, although I am grateful to those who
>> are attempting to teach him.  At the rate it's going, though, I don't
>> see myself buying any book he produces.
>>
>> Besides the arrogant attitude, he is wrong on so many things about
>> Python it is truly stunning.
> 
> That's bullshit. I am probably wrong about many Python things, for this
> is so no matter the language and the practictioner, but not any that you
> know about.
> 
So your accomplishments include mind-reading now, and you understand
everything that Stephen knows and does not know about? That's a
startling and, I suggest, untenable claim.
> 
>>  He seems to have confidence born of ignorance... a scary sight to see.
>>
>> In the spirit of being helpful and not just being a jerk myself:
>>
>> Alf,
>>
>> Using smileys after declaring somebody is mistaken/wrong/etc makes you
>> look bad.
>>
>> Not attempting to learn the language makes you look like an arrogant
>> idiot (case in point: passing-by-object).
>>
>> Accusing anyone and everyone that criticizes you of making ad hominem
>> (sp?) attacks makes you look like a whiner.
>>
>> After all is said and done - if you had a truly good grasp of Python,
>> I might buy your book even if you still had -- ummm -- a less than
>> winning presence on the mailing list; but right now your understanding
>> is not worth paying for.
>>
>> Hoping-this-helps-but-not-really-expecting-it-to-ly yours,
> 
> It's yet another ad hominem attack, which means that you're painfully
> aware of supporting an untenable technical position, or supporting a
> clique of people.
> 
So now the whole thing boils down to "Alf against the world"? The
reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
she said it was very nice, but that "everyone but our Alf was out of step".

I am unsure at this stage what it would take to convince you that you
are not only wrong about several important aspects of Python but also
wrong-headed. Whenever anyone points out any aspect of your behavior
which is unacceptable or ignorant you trot out this accusation that
people are making "ad hominem attacks" as though commenting on aspects
of your personality is an attempt to undermine your arguments.

It isn't. The two are orthogonal. Your arguments are wrong *and* you are
behaving like a pratt. A change in either one of these aspects would
improve matters, but each seems as unlikely as the other.

> It also reflects rather badly on you.

Sigh. We're all out of step again, obviously.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 22:10:42 2010
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby.urner at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:10:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FWD: Lore about Division
Message-ID: <47257550-587f-4ae6-b909-655a3dff1024@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Alan:  2^(1/2)

Kirby: Also pow(2, 0.5) in Python.

Alan: Gee, I wonder if pow(2, (1/2)) also works in Python?

Kirby:

It does if you remember integer division in earlier
versions, such that one needed:

from __future__ import division

or, simply made it 1./2 or 1/2. or something, to force
a floating point answer.

In 3.x, division is natively floating, with // to force
an integer output.

[ EDITOR'S NOTE:  not quite right, may be floating type output with
integer value ]


This is Python 3.1, right out of the box:

>>> pow(2, 1/2)
1.4142135623730951

Alan:

That reminds me of FORTRAN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran_language_features#Implicit_and_explicit_typing

"Unless specified otherwise, all variables starting with letters I, J,
K, L, M
and N are default INTEGER, and all others are default REAL; other data
types
must be explicitly declared. This is known as implicit typing and is a
heritage
of early FORTRAN days."

Kirby:

I think the original intent was something like "closure" i.e.
int / int should give int, whereas float / float or float / int
or int / float should coerce float answer, and that is how it
was done.

However it was later realized, by Guido and others, that in
source code, when you see a / b, you really have no way of
knowing what's going through there, i.e. a and b might name
anything, so it gets hard to debug if the behavior is so
dependent on 1 versus 3 use cases. Better to just have a
consistent float output, no matter what. Then use // if you
want to force an integer value output, even if you input floats
to get floats back:

>>> 1.//2.
0.0
>>> 1/2
0.5
>>> 3.//2.
1.0

It's quite basic to a language, how it deals with division, so
Guido had to devise a scheme that would let the snake "shed its
skin". Already, the brand name (Python) was in his favor, as
that's what Pythons do (shed skin). A lot of basic changes piled
up, including a more complete move to a Unicode basis for source
files. If you're going to break backward compatibility, might as
well do a lot of breaking all at once.

As of this writing, we're on the other end of it, having made the
leap from 2.x to 3.x. The backward incompatibility gap has been
crossed. However, a number of important libraries and other assets
still need to bring up the rear, so a new PEP (Python Enhancement
Proposal) has been accepted, to freeze Python for awhile, in terms
of its core syntax and semantics. Give the library people some
breathing room. This seems a good plan.

[ original context:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/synergeo/ ]


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 22:22:27 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:22:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6da47c86-b533-4d54-8b8a-d68feb2c4101@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

catonano <caton... at gmail.com> wrote:
> You know what I'm doing now ? I'm drawing the map of
> twisted.web.client on a paper with a pencil :-(

You're a programmer. Why are you complaining about the problem instead
of endeavouring to solve it?



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 10 22:25:00 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:25:00 -0500
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/10/2010 4:49 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> I've written a decorator for "injecting" a __function__ name into the
> function namespace, but I can't find it anywhere. I think I implemented
> it by adding a fake additional argument and replacing LOAD_GLOBAL with
> LOAD_NAME in the bytecode.

The decorator only needs to replace the defaults args tuple.
It does not even need to know the parameter name,
just that it is the only (or last) with a default .

def f(n, me=None):
     if n > 0: return n*me(n-1)
     elif n==0: return 1

f.__defaults__ = (f,) # 3.1
print(f(5))
# 120

To generalize:

def g(a,b=1,me=None):
     if a: return me(0)
     else: return 41+b

g.__defaults__ = g.__defaults__[:len(g.__defaults__)-1] + (g,)
print(g(3))
#42

Of course, user could still screw up recursion by providing another 
value for 'me'. This strikes me as about a likely (low) as a user 
screwing up recursion in a library module function by rebinding the name 
in the imported module.

Terry Jan Reedy




From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 22:36:51 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:36:51 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
>
> So now the whole thing boils down to "Alf against the world"? The
> reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
> from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
> she said it was very nice, but that "everyone but our Alf was out of step".

Considering your frequent ad hominem attacks (and this is yet one more), you 
seem to think that social coercion works well for establishing engineering 
solutions or scientific truth.

That's a misconception.

Social matters and matters of engineering or science are different things.


> I am unsure at this stage what it would take to convince you that you
> are not only wrong about several important aspects of Python but also
> wrong-headed.

You might start by starting a thread about one such thing; I'll correct you if 
you're wrong about something I know, or if you demonstrate that I'm wrong about 
something, then I'll be happy to learn something, as always.

It would be a nice change from your extreme focus on my person, if you could 
manage to discuss something technical.


> Whenever anyone points out any aspect of your behavior
> which is unacceptable or ignorant you trot out this accusation that
> people are making "ad hominem attacks" as though commenting on aspects
> of your personality is an attempt to undermine your arguments.

That's an ad hominem attack, albeit a pretty silly one.

Your behavior, with ad hominem, coercion, insinuations, misrepresentations and 
so forth the basic ingredients, is completely unacceptable to me, by the way.

It's like a bully in the schoolyard.


> It isn't. The two are orthogonal. Your arguments are wrong *and* you are
> behaving like a pratt. A change in either one of these aspects would
> improve matters, but each seems as unlikely as the other.
> 
>> It also reflects rather badly on you.
> 
> Sigh. We're all out of step again, obviously.

If you had any argument that held regarding the technical, then I think you (and 
I mean the singular you) would have tried it by now.

But instead, you engage in this bullying behavior.


Cheers,

- Alf


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb 10 22:37:06 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:37:06 +0000
Subject: A silly question on file opening
References: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.23.08@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.03.37.05.16000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:23:08 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> The solution to this is to remember that Windows accepts forward slashes 
> as well as backslashes, and always use the forward slash. So try:
> 
> open("D:/file") 
> 
> and see if that works.

The solution is not to hard-code pathnames in your source file. Read the
base directory from an environment variable, registry key, or
configuration file, and use os.path.join() to construct paths relative to
that directory.

On Unix, there are situations which require hard-coding pathnames, e.g.
the path to the package's system-wide configuration file.

But on Windows, there isn't a single directory whose name is fixed.
"Windows" isn't guaranteed to be on "C:", and the other standard
directories typically have names which vary by language. Hard-coding
"Program Files" is a quick way to guarantee that your software won't work
on systems using a language other than English.



From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 10 22:40:54 2010
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:40:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: expy 0.6 released
Message-ID: <155225.21818.qm@web54203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi:

EXPY (http://expy.sourceforge.net/) is an express way to extend Python. 

Why consider expy? Here are some good reasons:

(I). WYSIWYG. The expy project enables you to write your module in Python the way your extension would be (WYSIWYG), and meanwhile write your implementation in pure C. You specify your modules, functions, methods, classes, and even their documentations the usual way of writing your Python correspondences. Then provide your implementation to the functions/methods by returning a multi-line string. By such an arrangement, everything falls in its right place, and your extension code becomes easy to read and maintain. Also, the generated code is very human-friendly.

(II). You only provide minimal information to indicate your intension of how your module/class would function in Python. So your extension is largely independent from the Python extension API. As your interaction with the Python extension API is reduced to minimal (you only care about the functionality and logic), it is then possible that your module written in expy can be independent of changes in the extension API.

(III). The building and setup of your project can be automatically done with the distutil tool. In the tutorial, there are ample examples on how easily this is achieved.

(IV). Very light weight. The expy tool is surprisingly light weight dispite of its powerful ability, as it is written in pure Python. There is no parser or compiler for code generation, but rather the powerful reflexion mechanism of Python is exploited in a clever way to generate human-friendly codes. Currently, generating code in C is supported, however, the implementation is well modularized and code generation in other languages such as Java and C++ should be easy.

Currently, EXPY/CXPY works with Python 2.5, 2.6. I haven?t tested with Python 2.7 or 3.x (for 3.x, need to use the code tool first, and I am not sure if the C API for 3.x has changed much, if you happen to try it out, let me know what happened).

While there are already a couple of other projects trying to simply this task with different strategies, such as Cython, Pyrex and modulator, this project is unique and charming in its own way. All you need is the WYSIWYG Python file for your module extension, then expy takes care of everything else. What follows in this documentation is on how to extend Python in C using expy-cxpy: the module expy helps define your module, while module cxpy helps generate C codes for your defined module.

Yingjie


      


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Feb 10 22:48:05 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:48:05 +0000
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.03.48.04.297000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:23:42 -0800, Peng Yu wrote:

> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
> and ']' means closed interval as in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_endpoints)
> 
> [1, 3]
> [2, 9]
> [10,13]
> [11,12]
> 
> I want to get the following merged intervals.
> 
> [1,9]
> [10,13]
> 
> Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
> library?

No, but try this:

def merge(intervals):
    if not intervals:
	return []
    intervals = sorted(intervals, key = lambda x: x[0])
    result = []
    (a, b) = intervals[0]
    for (x, y) in intervals[1:]:
	if x <= b:
	    b = max(b, y)
	else:
	    result.append((a, b))
	    (a, b) = (x, y)
    result.append((a, b))
    return result



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 22:49:15 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:49:15 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> [snip]
>>>
>>> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
>>> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
>>> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
>>> language spec.
>>>
> [snip]
>>>
>>> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
>>> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
>>> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
>>> might not even make sense.
>>>
>>> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
>>> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
>>> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
>>> integer, in IronPython it's not.
>>>
>> You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
>> constructed definition above
> 
> No, it's not bizarre, it's the standard general language independent
> definition.
> 
*The* standard general language independent definition? As defined
where? The id() value doesn't "correspond to the pointer value", it
corresponds to the object. Why you see the need for this indirection
remains a mystery.

> And since I'm referring to an external definition (Java) it's not mine,
> either. :-)
> 
> 
>> as a pointer does not allow you to access
>> the value that is "pointed to". So I fail to see why you feel its its
>> introduction is necessary.
> 
> Python provides a number of ways to access the object pointed to.
> 
> Attribute access, indexing, and operators access the objects pointed to.

No, they access the objects. In the IronPython implementation, for
example, it has already been shown quite clearly that the id value is
simply an attribute of the object, whose values are incremented by one
for each new object.
> 
> For example,
> 
>   x = s[0]
> 
> accesses the object that s points (refers) to.

It accesses (the first element of) the object bound to the name "s".
> 
> While 'is', 'id' and assignment operate on the pointers (references)
> themselves.
> 
The 'is' operator is a simple test for equality of ids of the objects
resulting from the evaluation of two expressions. The expressions can be
literals, simple names, or any other valid Python expression. They are
*not* pointers, or references.

id() simply returns a unique value identifying a particular object. In
CPython, where objects do not migrate in memory once created, the memory
address of the object is used. In IronPython each object is assigned an
id when it is created, and that value is stored as an attribute.

> So there's one set of language features that operate on pointers, and
> one set of language features that operate on the pointed to objects.
> This is so also in Java and C#. For example.
> 
> 
>> Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
>> id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
>> expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
>> access to the referenced value.
> 
> Yes, the id does not give you access to the referenced object.
> 
Well at least we have found one aspect of Python we agree on.
> 
>> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
>> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
>> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
>> the value for which the id() value was provided.
> 
> No, I don't disagree with that.
> 
Good.

> It would be excessively inefficient to do, involving enumeration of all
> objects.
> 
> 
>> So in your world it's unnecessary for pointers to point to anything (or
>> references to refer to something)? For someone who cheerfully admits to
>> being wrong from time to time (an admirable characteristic) you are
>> certainly difficult to convince on this point. One wonders what further
>> hand-waving will follow.
> 
> He he, "further" handwaiving: you're good at unsubstantiated allegations.
> 
I am simply pointing out that to make your point you are relying on
abstractions which increasingly diverge from the reality of the Python
language. I don't think it's unreasonable to describe that as
"hand-waving". You apparently do.

> I generally strive to provide concrete examples, and you know it.
> 
Again with the mind-reading: you appear to have convinced yourself that
you are an authority on what I know.

> Anywyay, treating the first sentence as a genuine question: in the most
> likely interpretation it seems that you're conflating id's with
> pointers. An id() value uniquely represents a pointer (i.e., the
> identity of the object pointed to). It is not itself a pointer since it
> lack any pointer semantics.
> 
No, it doesn't uniquely represent a pointer, it uniquely represents an
*object*.

> For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
> Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
> anything, namely as exemplified by
> 
>    def foo():
>        print( x )
>        x = "whatever"
> 
> The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says
> something like "unbound". Which means the same.
> 
Be careful when comparing static and dynamic languages. Java, being a
static language, has no equivalent to Python's NameError and
AttributeError, which both represent situations in which no object has
been bound to a name. In those cases it isn't that the name exists and
is bound to a "null pointer", it's simply that the name doesn't exist.
So there is no "copyable reference value".

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 22:56:49 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:56:49 -0800
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
In-Reply-To: <4B735F0F.6080503@sequans.com>
References: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<4B735F0F.6080503@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002101956x1298f01euc40285c2227a0598@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant <
jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> I don't know exactly what you are trying to do, but if your server requires
> informations from the client, it would be better to ask explicitly the
> client for those informations.
> For instance, if a method requires te client IP address, then the IP
> address is definitely a parameter of the method.
>

I can't answer the OP, as I don't know the answer to his specific question--
but er, asking a client to provide one's IP address is not really a very
workable solution. There's no way to really determine your own IP address in
a reliable way.

All the usual methods (e.g., socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())) can
fail and/or be wrong in some not terribly uncommon situations. The only
reliable way to get such a piece of information is to connect to a server,
and ask that server what address you were connecting to them as. Even then,
that IP may not be the same as an IP you use to connect to say, a different
server (on a different network)

--S
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 23:03:29 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:03:29 -0500
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.11.03.48.04.297000@nowhere.com>
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.11.03.48.04.297000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <hkvvl4$h52$2@ger.gmane.org>

Nobody wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:23:42 -0800, Peng Yu wrote:
> 
>> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
>> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
>> and ']' means closed interval as in
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_endpoints)
>>
>> [1, 3]
>> [2, 9]
>> [10,13]
>> [11,12]
>>
>> I want to get the following merged intervals.
>>
>> [1,9]
>> [10,13]
>>
>> Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
>> library?
> 
> No, but try this:
> 
> def merge(intervals):
>     if not intervals:
> 	return []
>     intervals = sorted(intervals, key = lambda x: x[0])

Since Python uses lexical sorting and the intervals are lists isn't the
key specification redundant here?

>     result = []
>     (a, b) = intervals[0]
>     for (x, y) in intervals[1:]:
> 	if x <= b:
> 	    b = max(b, y)
> 	else:
> 	    result.append((a, b))
> 	    (a, b) = (x, y)
>     result.append((a, b))
>     return result
> 
regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 23:13:17 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:13:17 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org> <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002102013l4a5eb26ay2f684b8e1ba35256@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> *The* standard general language independent definition? As defined where?
>

Wait, what happened here?

This thread started a couple days ago; you pointed out its futility, and
even knowing better, I jumped in the deep end. When I realized the futility,
you rightly I-told-you-so'd me.

You didn't have to pick up my slack ;)

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:

> Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
> word,' said Humpty ..."


--S
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 23:19:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:19:52 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl00js$kni$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>>
>> So now the whole thing boils down to "Alf against the world"? The
>> reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
>> from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
>> she said it was very nice, but that "everyone but our Alf was out of
>> step".
> 
> Considering your frequent ad hominem attacks (and this is yet one more),
> you seem to think that social coercion works well for establishing
> engineering solutions or scientific truth.
> 
> That's a misconception.
> 
So now I understand neither engineering nor science? I find that
assertion offensive, though unsurprising.

> Social matters and matters of engineering or science are different things.
> 
I am hardly ignorant of that, as you should know from my many past
writings on both aspects of Python usage. You are attempting to teach
your grandmother to suck eggs.
> 
>> I am unsure at this stage what it would take to convince you that you
>> are not only wrong about several important aspects of Python but also
>> wrong-headed.
> 
> You might start by starting a thread about one such thing; I'll correct
> you if you're wrong about something I know, or if you demonstrate that
> I'm wrong about something, then I'll be happy to learn something, as
> always.
> 
> It would be a nice change from your extreme focus on my person, if you
> could manage to discuss something technical.
> 
See below.
> 
>> Whenever anyone points out any aspect of your behavior
>> which is unacceptable or ignorant you trot out this accusation that
>> people are making "ad hominem attacks" as though commenting on aspects
>> of your personality is an attempt to undermine your arguments.
> 
> That's an ad hominem attack, albeit a pretty silly one.
> 
[facepalm]

> Your behavior, with ad hominem, coercion, insinuations,
> misrepresentations and so forth the basic ingredients, is completely
> unacceptable to me, by the way.
> 
> It's like a bully in the schoolyard.
> 
I am attempting to persuade, not to coerce.
> 
>> It isn't. The two are orthogonal. Your arguments are wrong *and* you are
>> behaving like a pratt. A change in either one of these aspects would
>> improve matters, but each seems as unlikely as the other.
>>
>>> It also reflects rather badly on you.
>>
>> Sigh. We're all out of step again, obviously.
> 
> If you had any argument that held regarding the technical, then I think
> you (and I mean the singular you) would have tried it by now.
> 
> But instead, you engage in this bullying behavior.
> 
My (technical) views on your insistence that Python's semantics require
the use of pointers to explain them is ongoing elsewhere, and remains
open for you to refute.

In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.

You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to tell people to "learn to
read", and calling their assertions "bullshit", but when we try to point
out aspects of your behavior that are either undesirable or unacceptable
 we are indulging in "ad hominem attacks".

In your terms, your accusing me of bullying behavior is an ad hominem
attack on me, so I won't bother to respond further.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 10 23:21:08 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:21:08 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002102013l4a5eb26ay2f684b8e1ba35256@mail.gmail.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002102013l4a5eb26ay2f684b8e1ba35256@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl00m6$kni$2@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com
> <mailto:steve at holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> 
>     *The* standard general language independent definition? As
>     defined where?
> 
>  
> Wait, what happened here? 
> 
> This thread started a couple days ago; you pointed out its futility, and
> even knowing better, I jumped in the deep end. When I realized the
> futility, you rightly I-told-you-so'd me. 
> 
> You didn't have to pick up my slack ;)
> 
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com
> <mailto:steve at holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Of course this won't make the slightest difference. "'When I use a
>     word,' said Humpty ..."

Yes, but someone on the Internet is wrong, dammit, I can't go to bed yet.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Wed Feb 10 23:27:30 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:27:30 -0600
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
In-Reply-To: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eae285401002102027x499f2f8fx8095fba0c52d3fc8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Peng Yu <pengyu.ut at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> merge intervals.
>

Not in the standard library, but this package may help:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/interval

--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com/>
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From ken at seehart.com  Wed Feb 10 23:42:25 2010
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:42:25 -0800
Subject: regex to match python string literal syntax
Message-ID: <4B738AB1.2030702@seehart.com>


I found this:
   http://code.activestate.com/recipes/475109/

But it is incorrect in some cases, such as:
*
"foo \" bar"*  / (incorrectly matches "foo \")/
*
'''*     /(incorrectly matches the second two single quotes)/

*" foo
  bar "*  / (incorrectly matches quote containing newline/)

Anyone know a regular expression that correctly matches python string 
literals?

Thanks in advance,
Ken

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From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 10 23:49:01 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:49:01 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
>>>> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
>>>> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
>>>> language spec.
>>>>
>> [snip]
>>>> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
>>>> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
>>>> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
>>>> might not even make sense.
>>>>
>>>> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
>>>> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
>>>> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
>>>> integer, in IronPython it's not.
>>>>
>>> You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
>>> constructed definition above
>> No, it's not bizarre, it's the standard general language independent
>> definition.
>>
> *The* standard general language independent definition?

Yes.


> As defined where?

For example, as I used as reference in my first posting, the Java language spec. 
  But it has nothing specifically to do with Java. It is a basic concept in 
computer science, that (most) CS students learn in their *first year*.

E.g.

<quote src="http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/106/">
A pointer stores a reference to something. Unfortunately there is no fixed term 
for the thing that the pointer points to, and across different computer 
languages there is a wide variety of things that pointers point to. We use the 
term pointee for the thing that the pointer points to, and we stick to the basic 
properties of the pointer/pointee relationship which are true in all languages. 
The term "reference" means pretty much the same thing as "pointer" -- 
"reference" implies a more high-level discussion, while "pointer" implies the 
traditional compiled language implementation of pointers as addresses. For the 
basic pointer/pointee rules covered here, the terms are effectively equivalent.
</quote>

Note that that discussion at Stanford University has several Java examples + a 
FAQ about the application of the term "pointer" to Java (plus of course that 
that's specified by the language spec), so "implies ... pointers as addresses" 
is not smart to get too focused on. Some common sense is required.

As mentioned, it is for first-year students.

But anyway, this is just terminology; if you don't like the term, then invent or 
suggest one that you're able to grok or think others will more likely grok.


> The id() value doesn't "correspond to the pointer value", it
> corresponds to the object. Why you see the need for this indirection
> remains a mystery.

The language specifies pointer semantics, that's all.

You can copy and replace references.

So, they quack like pointers, waddle like pointers and look like pointers: = 
pointers.


>> And since I'm referring to an external definition (Java) it's not mine,
>> either. :-)
>>
>>
>>> as a pointer does not allow you to access
>>> the value that is "pointed to". So I fail to see why you feel its its
>>> introduction is necessary.
>> Python provides a number of ways to access the object pointed to.
>>
>> Attribute access, indexing, and operators access the objects pointed to.
> 
> No, they access the objects.

What's the difference between "access the objects" and "access the objects"?

I'm not genuinely interested in how you came up with this amazing rebuttal, it 
was a rhetorical question only.

But I note that the only difference seems to be that you don't want the objects 
to be referenced (pointed to) by anything, removing that bit of text, which 
would make it a bit problematic to apply /any/ operation...


> In the IronPython implementation, for
> example, it has already been shown quite clearly that the id value is
> simply an attribute of the object, whose values are incremented by one
> for each new object.

Please demonstrate how that is relevant to whatever you're arguing.


>> For example,
>>
>>   x = s[0]
>>
>> accesses the object that s points (refers) to.
> 
> It accesses (the first element of) the object bound to the name "s".

Yes.


>> While 'is', 'id' and assignment operate on the pointers (references)
>> themselves.
>>
> The 'is' operator is a simple test for equality of ids of the objects
> resulting from the evaluation of two expressions. The expressions can be
> literals, simple names, or any other valid Python expression.

Yes.


> They are *not* pointers, or references.

Simple demonstration that they're references (have reference semantics):

   s = ["A"]
   t = s             # Copies the reference.
   t[0] = "B"        # Changes the referenced object via the reference copy.
   print( s )        # Inspects object (now changed) via original reference.

It's pretty hard to argue seriously against this without committing a number of 
fallacies.

Denial is of course easy, and you've done that, but it's at best just childish.


> id() simply returns a unique value identifying a particular object. In
> CPython, where objects do not migrate in memory once created, the memory
> address of the object is used. In IronPython each object is assigned an
> id when it is created, and that value is stored as an attribute.

Yes.


>> So there's one set of language features that operate on pointers, and
>> one set of language features that operate on the pointed to objects.
>> This is so also in Java and C#. For example.
>>
>>> Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
>>> id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
>>> expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
>>> access to the referenced value.
>> Yes, the id does not give you access to the referenced object.
>>
> Well at least we have found one aspect of Python we agree on.

Oh, good. :-)


>>> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
>>> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
>>> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
>>> the value for which the id() value was provided.
>> No, I don't disagree with that.
>>
> Good.
> 
>> It would be excessively inefficient to do, involving enumeration of all
>> objects.
>>
>>
>>> So in your world it's unnecessary for pointers to point to anything (or
>>> references to refer to something)? For someone who cheerfully admits to
>>> being wrong from time to time (an admirable characteristic) you are
>>> certainly difficult to convince on this point. One wonders what further
>>> hand-waving will follow.
>> He he, "further" handwaiving: you're good at unsubstantiated allegations.
>>
> I am simply pointing out that to make your point you are relying on
> abstractions which increasingly diverge from the reality of the Python
> language.

On the contrary, the closest abstraction to reference semantics is reference 
semantics.

No special cases needed.

No extraneous conceptual ballast.



> I don't think it's unreasonable to describe that as
> "hand-waving". You apparently do.

Yes and no.

Regarding what you write now, that is regarding what people (who don't have set 
positions) find easier to grasp: discussing that is necessarily handwaiving, but 
to the same degree no matter which side you argue. Unless one applies 
statistics. So by your own argument you're handwaiving.

On the other hand, regarding what you wrote earlier you implied a history of 
handwaiving from me.

You would be unable to give examples of that.

But above you present an argument about IronPython which suggest some 
unspecified contradiction with something unspecified (to get to the implied 
contradiction a reader would have to form a picture that would be 
misrepresenting me), and *that* is an example of handwaiving, diversion and 
misrepresentation  --  which I didn't have to look far to find...


>> I generally strive to provide concrete examples, and you know it.
>>
> Again with the mind-reading: you appear to have convinced yourself that
> you are an authority on what I know.

What on Earth are you babbling about now? I say what I do. You therefore think 
I'm reading your mind? Hello. Get a grip.


>> Anywyay, treating the first sentence as a genuine question: in the most
>> likely interpretation it seems that you're conflating id's with
>> pointers. An id() value uniquely represents a pointer (i.e., the
>> identity of the object pointed to). It is not itself a pointer since it
>> lack any pointer semantics.
>>
> No, it doesn't uniquely represent a pointer,

Denial is just stupid, sorry.


> it uniquely represents an *object*.

Yes, and that implies that it also uniquely represents a pointer to the object. 
If nothing else you could take the address of the object and have a direct 
correspondence (one-to-one mapping) with the id value, contradicting your 
statement. But that's just one concrete example, it doesn't capture the general 
idea of an abstract pointer: it only shows that your statement is a 
self-contradiction, i.e., fallacious.


>> For a less likely more technical interpretation, as far as I know in
>> Python there's just one case of a pointer that does not point to
>> anything, namely as exemplified by
>>
>>    def foo():
>>        print( x )
>>        x = "whatever"
>>
>> The Java equivalent would say "NullPointerException", in Python it says
>> something like "unbound". Which means the same.
>>
> Be careful when comparing static and dynamic languages. Java, being a
> static language, has no equivalent to Python's NameError and
> AttributeError, which both represent situations in which no object has
> been bound to a name. In those cases it isn't that the name exists and
> is bound to a "null pointer", it's simply that the name doesn't exist.
> So there is no "copyable reference value".

Yes, you have point there (the first so far, I must add, since this is at the 
end of the article!). And it is a good but subtle point that I was a bit 
hesitant to mention. But since you've let that cat out of ze bag, Java and 
Python differ in what dangerous name/pointer features they offer: IIRC Java 
allows a name to become "unbound" by assigning nullpointer, i.e. an extra path 
to that dangerous nullpointer/unbound state, while Python allows a name to 
become non-existent via del, i.e. an extra path to that dangerous non-existence.

Still, the unbound/nullpointer state is the same, with the same effect.

And that's quite suggestive.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From dinov at microsoft.com  Wed Feb 10 23:58:33 2010
From: dinov at microsoft.com (Dino Viehland)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:58:33 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org> <hkvuqe$h52$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1A472770E042064698CB5ADC83A12ACD392D9ED8@TK5EX14MBXC116.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Steve wrote:
> id() simply returns a unique value identifying a particular object. In
> CPython, where objects do not migrate in memory once created, the
> memory
> address of the object is used. In IronPython each object is assigned an
> id when it is created, and that value is stored as an attribute.

Just a point of clarification: In IronPython ids are lazily assigned upon
a call to the id().  They're actually fairly expensive to create because 
the ids need to be maintained by a dictionary which uses weak references.

> >> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
> >> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
> >> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and
> >> returns the value for which the id() value was provided.

Just for fun this works in IronPython 2.6:

>>> import clr
>>> clr.AddReference('Microsoft.Dynamic')
>>> from Microsoft.Scripting.Runtime import IdDispenser
>>> x = object()
>>> id(x)
43
>>> IdDispenser.GetObject(43)
<object object at 0x000000000000002B>
>>> IdDispenser.GetObject(43) is x
True

Please, please, no one ever use this code!

I do generally agree with the sentiment that id is object identity and in
way related to pointers though.



From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 00:01:54 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:01:54 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> So now the whole thing boils down to "Alf against the world"? The
>>> reminds me of the story about the woman who went to see her son qualify
>>> from his basic army training. When asked what she thought of the parade
>>> she said it was very nice, but that "everyone but our Alf was out of
>>> step".
>> Considering your frequent ad hominem attacks (and this is yet one more),
>> you seem to think that social coercion works well for establishing
>> engineering solutions or scientific truth.
>>
>> That's a misconception.
>>
> So now I understand neither engineering nor science? I find that
> assertion offensive, though unsurprising.
> 
>> Social matters and matters of engineering or science are different things.
>>
> I am hardly ignorant of that, as you should know from my many past
> writings on both aspects of Python usage. You are attempting to teach
> your grandmother to suck eggs.
>>> I am unsure at this stage what it would take to convince you that you
>>> are not only wrong about several important aspects of Python but also
>>> wrong-headed.
>> You might start by starting a thread about one such thing; I'll correct
>> you if you're wrong about something I know, or if you demonstrate that
>> I'm wrong about something, then I'll be happy to learn something, as
>> always.
>>
>> It would be a nice change from your extreme focus on my person, if you
>> could manage to discuss something technical.
>>
> See below.
>>> Whenever anyone points out any aspect of your behavior
>>> which is unacceptable or ignorant you trot out this accusation that
>>> people are making "ad hominem attacks" as though commenting on aspects
>>> of your personality is an attempt to undermine your arguments.
>> That's an ad hominem attack, albeit a pretty silly one.
>>
> [facepalm]
> 
>> Your behavior, with ad hominem, coercion, insinuations,
>> misrepresentations and so forth the basic ingredients, is completely
>> unacceptable to me, by the way.
>>
>> It's like a bully in the schoolyard.
>>
> I am attempting to persuade, not to coerce.
>>> It isn't. The two are orthogonal. Your arguments are wrong *and* you are
>>> behaving like a pratt. A change in either one of these aspects would
>>> improve matters, but each seems as unlikely as the other.
>>>
>>>> It also reflects rather badly on you.
>>> Sigh. We're all out of step again, obviously.
>> If you had any argument that held regarding the technical, then I think
>> you (and I mean the singular you) would have tried it by now.
>>
>> But instead, you engage in this bullying behavior.
>>
> My (technical) views on your insistence that Python's semantics require
> the use of pointers to explain them is ongoing elsewhere, and remains
> open for you to refute.
> 
> In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
> to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
> hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.
> 
> You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to tell people to "learn to
> read",

I have not used that expression.

However I have suggest and emphasized that it might help to *read* whatever one 
quotes, when the quoted material (such as one paragraph) has not been read.

Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply that the 
person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read. Telling a person to 
read something that's obviously not been read is quite another matter. So, you 
are misrepresenting  --  again  --  and in a quite revealing way, sorry.


> and calling their assertions "bullshit",

Yes, in this group, but only for personal attacks.

Such as yours.

I think I've shown extreme restraint in the face of bullying from you and some 
followers, and calling the insinuations bullshit is quite mild.


> but when we try to point
> out aspects of your behavior that are either undesirable or unacceptable
> we are indulging in "ad hominem attacks".

That is an untrue and extremely misleading description of what you've been doing.


> In your terms, your accusing me of bullying behavior is an ad hominem
> attack on me, so I won't bother to respond further.

You're complaining about the person you're hitting saying clearly what you did.

If some truthful words about bullying can get you straight I'm for it.

Even if it means getting down to your level (and yes, I did).


Cheers,

- Alf


From mark0978 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 00:24:34 2010
From: mark0978 at gmail.com (Mark Jones)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:24:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for 
	windows
References: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2263.1265760917.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<b61ba2f6-46bb-42a4-94b7-fb42b0a79494@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e4a07284-c0c3-4cae-9e34-4df12b4f1166@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Turns out there is an tools/msi directory and in there is python code
to help build the MSI from the tree you built. Only problem is you
can't use it without having python and PythonWin installed. So I
grabbed 2.6.4 python and pythonwin and installed them.

It uses COM objects and the CabSDK from MS to build the MSI file. And
then it has a couple of "Issues" that I had to resolve. First you need
a VS2008 shell so you can

nmake -f msisupport.mak

then you need to grab a copy of TIX (I didn't have to build it, just
have it in place fore the license.terms file (probably could have just
removed that list member for the same effect, but I was worried about
something else being needed down below)

("Tcl", "tcl8*", "license.terms"), ("Tk", "tk8*", "license.terms"),
("Tix", "Tix-*", "license.terms")):

had to be changed to:

("Tcl", "tcl-8*", "license.terms"), ("Tk", "tk-8*", "license.terms"),
("Tix", "Tix*", "license.terms")):

because the package names have evidently changed in the not to distant
past?

After that, I ran c:\python26\python msi.py and then it griped about
the python264.chm being missing, so instead of trying to build it, I
grabbed the one from the copy of python I had to install in order to
build python and dumped it in the expected location.

Oh yea, I also had to go to the PC directory and

nmake -f icons.mak

This gave me a runnable msi file to install python (which was already
installed, so that I could build the msi file to install my own
version). Oh well, at least it is built now. Whew!


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb 11 00:35:08 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:35:08 -0300
Subject: SocketServer error: AttributeError:  instance has no __call__
	method
References: <bc9adc7c-e24e-4229-aabd-3c6c10fdfa48@v36g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7x64uj2x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:13:58 -0300, Jordan Apgar <twistedphrame at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> I'm having some issues connecting to my Socket Server,  I get this
> traceback on the sever side:
> ----------------------------------------
> Exception happened during processing of request from ('127.0.0.1',
> 56404)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/SocketServer.py", line 320, in
> finish_request
>     self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
> AttributeError: Negotiator instance has no __call__ method
> ----------------------------------------


> class ServerNegotiator:
>     def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key, buf = 512):
>         negotiator = Negotiator(host, hostid, rsa_key,buf)
>         self.server = SocketServer.TCPServer((host, port), negotiator)

You have to pass the *class* of the RequestHandler you want, not an  
instance. TCPServer will create an instance of such class for every  
request handled. So you can't (or shouldn't) save permanent info in the  
handler, like rsa_key. Store all those parameters in the server. From the  
handler, you may access the server using its .server attribute.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb 11 00:37:17 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:37:17 -0300
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
References: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7x68fq7x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:19:50 -0300, Jordan Apgar <twistedphrame at gmail.com>  
escribi?:

> I'm trying to right a server that needs specific information for each
> client accessing it.  The easiest way I could think of doing this is
> keeping this information based on ip address (the information is only
> valid for a short time).  I know there is no was to get the client's
> address directly and have seen a few examples of subclassing the
> SimpleXMLRPCServer like this:
>
> class RPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer):
>
> def _dispatch(self, method, params):
> """Extend dispatch, adding client info to some parameters."""
> if method in ({my list of methods I needed client address}):
> return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method,
> params+(self.client_address,))
> return SimpleXMLRPCServer._dispatch(self, method, params);
>
>
> but to be honest I don't understand what's going on there or how to
> use it.  Would anyone be able to explain this to me?

Do you want an explanation of what the above code does?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 11 00:46:27 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 05:46:27 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:56:36 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> 
>>> "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
>>> level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language
>>> spec.
>> 
>> Python doesn't have "copyable reference values" in the Python level. It
>> has objects.
> 
> Given
> 
>    s = [1]
>    t = s         # Copies reference.
>    t[0] = 2      # Changes referenced object via copied reference.
>    print( s )    # Checks the object via the original reference.
> 
> your argument that the copied reference does not exist, is just silly.
> 
> And you know it.

You keep making a habit of pretending that you know what other people are 
thinking, accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from 
yours, and of deliberately making silly arguments that the poster (in 
this case, me) knows is untrue. It is an obnoxious, trolling habit. 
Please stop it.

I don't "know" it is a silly argument, because I don't accept your 
givens. Specifically:

s = [1]
t = s         # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
t[0] = 2      # Changes the object bound to the name t
print(s)      # Checks the object via the original name.

Notice that your version describes what happens according to some 
implementation, below the level of the Python virtual machine. My version 
describes what happens at the level of high-level Python code, which is 
the defined semantics of the language. It makes no assumptions about the 
implementation, completely unlike yours which is entirely implementation-
specific. My description is equally valid whether Python is being 
executed by the CPython virtual machine on an Intel-compatible processor, 
or hand-simulated with pencil and paper, or something completely 
different. Yours is not.

I describe the high-level language, you describe one implementation. 
Neither view is *wrong*, per se, but one describes the semantics of the 
language while the other describes the implementation.

The first paragraph of the Python docs about the execution model says:

"NAMES REFER TO OBJECTS [emphasis added]. Names are introduced by name 
binding operations. Each occurrence of a name in the program text refers 
to the binding of that name established in the innermost function block 
containing the use."

http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html

Apart from the use of the generic English term "refers to" (and similar), 
you will find *nothing* about pointers in this. That's because pointers 
are not a part of the high-level behaviour of Python.

See also:

http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#assignment-statements

where you will also not find the word "pointer" used to describe any high-
level Python feature, or used in relation to assignment.


-- 
Steven


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 01:10:53 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:10:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <81e93706-0e5f-429c-8514-f079c3910289@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply that the
> person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.

Ad hominem.

> So, you
> are misrepresenting ?-- ?again ?-- ?and in a quite revealing way, sorry.

Ad hominem.

> Yes, in this group, but only for personal attacks. Such as yours.

Ad hominem.

> I think I've shown extreme restraint in the face of bullying from you and some
> followers, and calling the insinuations bullshit is quite mild.

Ad hominem.

> That is an untrue and extremely misleading description of what you've been doing.

Ad hominem.

> Even if it means getting down to your level (and yes, I did).

Ad hominem.

So the real lesson you're trying to impart is to do as you say and not
as you do?


From ken at seehart.com  Thu Feb 11 01:28:43 2010
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:28:43 -0800
Subject: regex to match python string literal syntax
In-Reply-To: <4B738AB1.2030702@seehart.com>
References: <4B738AB1.2030702@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <4B73A39B.5090503@seehart.com>

Found this in pypy!

# Match any flavor of string; /*the terminating quote is optional*/
# so that we're robust in the face of incomplete program text.

_match_stringre = re.compile(r"""
    \""" [^"\\]* (?:
                     (?: \\. | "(?!"") )
                     [^"\\]*
                 )*
    (?: \""" )?

|   " [^"\\\n]* (?: \\. [^"\\\n]* )* "?

|   ''' [^'\\]* (?:
                   (?: \\. | '(?!'') )
                   [^'\\]*
                )*
    (?: ''' )?

|   ' [^'\\\n]* (?: \\. [^'\\\n]* )* '?
""", re.VERBOSE | re.DOTALL).match

Problem solved.

Ken


Ken Seehart wrote:
>
> I found this:
>    http://code.activestate.com/recipes/475109/
>
> But it is incorrect in some cases, such as:
> *
> "foo \" bar"*  / (incorrectly matches "foo \")/
> *
> '''*     /(incorrectly matches the second two single quotes)/
>
> *" foo
>   bar "*  / (incorrectly matches quote containing newline/)
>
> Anyone know a regular expression that correctly matches python string 
> literals?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ken
>

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From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 01:37:35 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:37:35 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:56:36 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> * Steven D'Aprano:
>>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:02:14 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>>
>>>> "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the Python
>>>> level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java language
>>>> spec.
>>> Python doesn't have "copyable reference values" in the Python level. It
>>> has objects.
>> Given
>>
>>    s = [1]
>>    t = s         # Copies reference.
>>    t[0] = 2      # Changes referenced object via copied reference.
>>    print( s )    # Checks the object via the original reference.
>>
>> your argument that the copied reference does not exist, is just silly.
>>
>> And you know it.
> 
> You keep making a habit of pretending that you know what other people are 
> thinking,

No, that is untrue, I do neither know nor pretend to know what other people are 
thinking.

But I do know that you know some elementary things, such as understanding what 
the code above does.

I do not by that mean that you don't also understand far more advanced things 
:-), just that I'm fairly ~100% sure that you do understand the code above.


> accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from 
> yours,

That is untrue.


[snip]
> I don't "know" it is a silly argument, because I don't accept your 
> givens. Specifically:
> 
> s = [1]
> t = s         # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
> t[0] = 2      # Changes the object bound to the name t
> print(s)      # Checks the object via the original name.
> 
> Notice that your version describes what happens according to some 
> implementation, below the level of the Python virtual machine.

Consider just the

   assert( t is not s )

   t = s

Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?

If it doesn't, then it has no effect whatsoever.

But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.

You describe that memory change as that t has been "bound" to the same object as s.

By which you mean that henceforth, until the next assignment to t, t *refers* to 
the same object as s.

That explanation in terms of "refers" is necessary. No beginner knows what it 
means that a name is "bound" to something means, until it's been explained. The 
explanation is necessarily in terms of "refers to".

When something A refers to something B, then by definition A is a *reference* to B.

Anyway, you have changed which object t refers to, by changing memory contents 
so that t now refers to the same object as s.

Effectively, by making t refer to the same object as s, by all measures of 
reference equality (which is just, do they refer to same object?) you have 
*copied* the s reference to t.

For if you haven't, then t necessarily refers to something else.

So the memory change, whatever it was, involved an effective copying of a 
reference, in memory.

And that copying of a reference, in memory, implies a copyable reference.

Going the other way, copying of references very directly implies binding. No 
need for the long logic chain above. So copying of references is in my view much 
more powerful as a model of what goes on, yielding immediate conclusions, 
avoiding special case rules, and being very suitable for visualization.

Not the least, it's more powerful because in order to explain "bind" you need 
"refer" and "reference", so the "bind" view involves more, violating Occam's.

But given the explanation in terms of "refer" and "reference" you do not need 
"bind", so it's less, it's simpler  --  and it's easier to visualize.


   ---


Anyway, there is more practical way to look at it.

Say that you're going to implement a linked list.

The functionality required for that is exactly that of general pointers. But a 
linked list can be implemented in Python, using names (attributes) as pointers. 
And since that works, without having to do anything extra in order to 
"implement" pointers in terms of names, but just using those names directly, 
those names necessarily have the functionality of general pointers.


> My version 
> describes what happens at the level of high-level Python code, which is 
> the defined semantics of the language. It makes no assumptions about the 
> implementation, completely unlike yours which is entirely implementation-
> specific. My description is equally valid whether Python is being 
> executed by the CPython virtual machine on an Intel-compatible processor, 
> or hand-simulated with pencil and paper, or something completely 
> different. Yours is not.
> 
> I describe the high-level language, you describe one implementation. 
> Neither view is *wrong*, per se, but one describes the semantics of the 
> language while the other describes the implementation.
> 
> The first paragraph of the Python docs about the execution model says:
> 
> "NAMES REFER TO OBJECTS [emphasis added]. Names are introduced by name 
> binding operations. Each occurrence of a name in the program text refers 
> to the binding of that name established in the innermost function block 
> containing the use."
> 
> http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html
> 
> Apart from the use of the generic English term "refers to" (and similar), 
> you will find *nothing* about pointers in this. That's because pointers 
> are not a part of the high-level behaviour of Python.

Well, apart from... As you say.


> See also:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#assignment-statements
> 
> where you will also not find the word "pointer" used to describe any high-
> level Python feature, or used in relation to assignment.

Yes, that's right.

It does not mean that such a description is invalid.

It only means that common sense needs to be applied, and that the urge to 
misinterpret needs to be suppressed. I don't think those are problems for 
novices. But still a better term than "pointer" would be nice, and I guess 
"reference" is it, as suggested by the course material I linked to.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 01:46:46 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:46:46 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <81e93706-0e5f-429c-8514-f079c3910289@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<81e93706-0e5f-429c-8514-f079c3910289@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl090t$hul$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply that the
>> person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> So, you
>> are misrepresenting  --  again  --  and in a quite revealing way, sorry.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> Yes, in this group, but only for personal attacks. Such as yours.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> I think I've shown extreme restraint in the face of bullying from you and some
>> followers, and calling the insinuations bullshit is quite mild.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> That is an untrue and extremely misleading description of what you've been doing.
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
>> Even if it means getting down to your level (and yes, I did).
> 
> Ad hominem.
> 
> So the real lesson you're trying to impart is to do as you say and not
> as you do?

Well, I don't think any of you guys would hold out as long as I did.

I think it's Not Nice to get personal.

But there's a limit, one can't just ignore punches every day, and you're right, 
the above from me was ad hominem all the way (well, except that it doesn't 
concern any technical discussion, and that I'm not injecting noise but 
responding to such and trying to reduce it in the future, but still).


Cheers,

- Alf



From ivlenin at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 02:38:32 2010
From: ivlenin at gmail.com (I V)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 08:38:32 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b73b3f8$1@news.x-privat.org>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:37:35 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> s = [1]
>> t = s         # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
>> t[0] = 2      # Changes the object bound to the name t print(s)      #
>> Checks the object via the original name.
>> 
>> Notice that your version describes what happens according to some
>> implementation, below the level of the Python virtual machine.
> 
> Consider just the
> 
>    assert( t is not s )
> 
>    t = s
> 
> Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?
> 
> If it doesn't, then it has no effect whatsoever.
> 
> But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.

I don't think your disagreeing with Steven here - by talking about "the 
computers memory," it's clear that you are talking about the details of 
an implementation of python, not the semantics of python itself. Unless, 
of course, you are under the misapprehension that "the computer's memory" 
is relevant to the python language, rather than the particular 
implementation. Python itself has nothing to do with "computers" or 
"memory"; these are mere implementation details.


From wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 02:39:36 2010
From: wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com (wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:39:36 +0000
Subject: sqlite3 bug?
In-Reply-To: <4B735175.9020704@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <001636498db3b55769047f4e4011@google.com>

Thank you

It just highlights that when your tired things can easily be missed and
maybe you should leave things until the morning to view things with
fresh eyes =)
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From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 11 02:59:38 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:59:38 +1300
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> A much, much stronger version of the
> principles behind Vigen?re was used in the German Enigma machine.
> Because the algorithm was still not good enought some clever guy called
> Turing and his team was able to crack the enigma.

Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that
the Germans made some blunders in the way they used the
Enigma that seriously compromised its security. There
was reportedly a branch of the German forces that used
their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes, and
the British never managed to crack any of their messages.

-- 
Greg


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 11 03:01:35 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:01:35 +1300
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2289.1265800001.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<871vgtj31f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2289.1265800001.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7thr76FeqlU2@mid.individual.net>

Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> It also turned out that everybody mostly writes his/her
> own obfuscation routine.

Hey, it gives you the additional advantage of obfuscation
by obscurity!

-- 
Greg


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 03:09:04 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:09:04 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b73b3f8$1@news.x-privat.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b73b3f8$1@news.x-privat.org>
Message-ID: <hl0dr7$l5u$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* I V:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:37:35 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steven D'Aprano:
>>> s = [1]
>>> t = s         # Binds the name t to the object bound to the name s.
>>> t[0] = 2      # Changes the object bound to the name t print(s)      #
>>> Checks the object via the original name.
>>>
>>> Notice that your version describes what happens according to some
>>> implementation, below the level of the Python virtual machine.
>> Consider just the
>>
>>    assert( t is not s )
>>
>>    t = s
>>
>> Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?
>>
>> If it doesn't, then it has no effect whatsoever.
>>
>> But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.
> 
> I don't think your disagreeing with Steven here - by talking about "the 
> computers memory," it's clear that you are talking about the details of 
> an implementation of python, not the semantics of python itself. Unless, 
> of course, you are under the misapprehension that "the computer's memory" 
> is relevant to the python language, rather than the particular 
> implementation. Python itself has nothing to do with "computers" or 
> "memory"; these are mere implementation details.

You know, the programming language that doesn't need computers: Python.

:-)



Cheers,

- Alf (not sure how to read your posting, but it's funny anyhow)


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Feb 11 03:56:32 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:56:32 +0000
Subject: I've built Python, but can't figure out how to package it for
	windows
In-Reply-To: <e4a07284-c0c3-4cae-9e34-4df12b4f1166@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <d9dae940-e1e8-4b83-8b6b-6d83a5888161@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2263.1265760917.28905.python-list@python.org>	<b61ba2f6-46bb-42a4-94b7-fb42b0a79494@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<e4a07284-c0c3-4cae-9e34-4df12b4f1166@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B73C640.1000500@timgolden.me.uk>

On 11/02/2010 05:24, Mark Jones wrote:
[... problems building from tools/msi ...]

I sympathise. I went through similar hoops last year, merely to
be able to do it. I think I'm right in saying that very few
people are bothered enough to package their own MSI on windows
because the (probably very few) developers who have a need to
run bleeding-edge Python, eg to test out patches or whatever,
can simply run from <checkout>\pcbuild\python_d.exe or whatever.
And everyone else simply runs the MSI provided on python.org.

I'm fairly sure I'm right in saying that it's Martin von L
who builds the MSIs for python.org and if I haven't done it
before I'd like to offer him a vote of thanks for having done
and for continuing to do this. The tools/msi is used by him
to do those builds and does make certain assumptions. One,
in particular, is that you have an *existing* copy of some
recent Python running somewhere. (I use python25, I think).
Altho' it might be nice to be able to bootstrap, in practice
it isn't a problem.

For interest's sake I offer my make-snapshots area which I
use to build trunk or branches for Python 2.x / 3.x when I
have the change:

   http://svn.tjg.org.uk/make-snapshots

Feel free to look at least to see what I'm doing. I think I
didn't bother with Tix (I don't use Tkinter) so thanks for
providing some input on that; I may well go back and retrofit.

TJG


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Feb 11 04:10:49 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:10:49 +0000
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
In-Reply-To: <96353030-0e0c-4035-ae4a-5ab475251d4b@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>	<m2zl3i3xvf.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<96353030-0e0c-4035-ae4a-5ab475251d4b@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B73C999.90206@timgolden.me.uk>

On 10/02/2010 22:55, T wrote:
> Great suggestions once again - I did verify that it was at least
> running the plink.exe binary when under LocalSystem by having the
> service run "plink.exe>  C:\plinkoutput.txt" - this worked fine.  And,
> as I mentioned, it's now working just fine when running under a
> regular admin account.  So, I think that's going to be my solution to
> avoid any further issues.  My best guess at this point (as you
> mentioned), is that plink.exe is doing _something_ network-related
> that LocalSystem doesn't have the privileges to do - what exactly it
> is, I have no idea.  I may play around with it some more later, but
> running the service under an admin account should be a perfectly
> acceptable solution.
>
> Also, I will be writing other Python apps that the service will be
> executing - so it goes without saying that I'll be including a log to
> file option :)  Thanks again for all your guys' help!

I'm not sure if this has been said already, but a reasonably common
approach to services is to create a user specifically for the
service and grant it exactly the privs / perms it needs (once you
work out what they are). You then assign it a generated password,
eg a GUID which you don't even try to remember: simply cut-and-paste
it in. Then create the service to run under that user.

That way you don't have the service running under
some local Administrator account with the associated risk
of its being subverted and gaining more control than you
want. Nor do you have it running as a real user whose
password might change for any reason, leaving you with
a service which won't start up.

I don't remember at this moment whether such a user's profile
is automatically loaded in the process when the service starts
or whether you have to do the LoadUserProfile thing.

TJG


From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Feb 11 04:46:16 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:46:16 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>

Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that
> the Germans made some blunders in the way they used the
> Enigma that seriously compromised its security. There
> was reportedly a branch of the German forces that used
> their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes, and
> the British never managed to crack any of their messages.

IIRC some versions of the Enigma weren't cracked because they used a
different setup and different daily keys.

The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years
before WW2 started. Some flaws in the instructions and a known plain
text attack made the crack of the Enigma practical. It took the British
scientists merely hours rather than days or weeks to decipher the daily
key with some smart tricks. For example they started fake attacks on
ships or cities just to have the names in some encrypted reports.


From aabelyakov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 04:57:00 2010
From: aabelyakov at gmail.com (aabelyakov)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:57:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unicode strings
Message-ID: <9c47f29c-4f98-442c-ba60-ec1d68f401f8@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Excellent! But what about the unicode


From aabelyakov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 05:00:05 2010
From: aabelyakov at gmail.com (aabelyakov)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 02:00:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unicode strings
Message-ID: <b1c90283-a156-4b34-95df-541d01e26ff5@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

Excellent! But what about the unicode?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 11 06:32:18 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:32:18 -0800
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the German
> forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes,
> and the British never managed to crack any of their messages.

I think you are thinking of the Kriegsmarine (naval) Enigma.  Yes they
were more careful with procedures, but the machine was also harder to
crack because it had four rotors instead of three.  IIRC, the Brits were
eventually (1942?) able to capture one by shooting up a German submarine
and boarding it to get the machine while the sub was sinking; a British
sailor wasn't able to get out in time and drowned during that operation.
Getting the rotor settings off the captured unit (they may have had to
do it more than once) was enough to get a foothold into the code.  My
memory is hazy on this by now so I may have some parts wrong, but David
Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma" tells the story (I read it many years
ago).  A fictionalized version appears in Neil Stephenson's novel
"Cryptonomicon".


From zasaconsulting at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 06:44:55 2010
From: zasaconsulting at gmail.com (Alexzive)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:44:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to improve this cycle (extracting data from structured array)?
Message-ID: <6ab43302-8700-495e-a2f7-c52282c62301@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hello guys,

I am just wondering if there is a quick way to improve this algorithm
[N is a structured array which hold info about the nodes n of a finite
element mesh, and n is about 300.000). I need to extract info from N
and put it in to a 3*n matrix NN which I reshape then with numpy. I
think to "append" is quite unefficient:

***********************************************************
N = odb.rootAssembly.instances['PART-1-1'].nodes


NN=[]

B=[0,0,0]
 #auxsiliar vector
for i in range(len(N)):

    B[0] = N[i].label

    B[1] = N[i].coordinates[0]

    B[2] = N[i].coordinates[1]

    NN = append(NN,B)


NN=NN.reshape(-1,3)

****************************************************
Many Thanks in advance!
Alex


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 11 07:08:31 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:08:31 -0600
Subject: how to improve this cycle (extracting data from structured array)?
In-Reply-To: <6ab43302-8700-495e-a2f7-c52282c62301@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ab43302-8700-495e-a2f7-c52282c62301@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B73F33F.9060205@tim.thechases.com>

Alexzive wrote:
> I am just wondering if there is a quick way to improve this algorithm
> [N is a structured array which hold info about the nodes n of a finite
> element mesh, and n is about 300.000). I need to extract info from N
> and put it in to a 3*n matrix NN which I reshape then with numpy. I
> think to "append" is quite unefficient:
> 
> ***********************************************************
> N = odb.rootAssembly.instances['PART-1-1'].nodes
> 
> NN=[]
> 
> B=[0,0,0]
>  #auxsiliar vector
> for i in range(len(N)):
>     B[0] = N[i].label
>     B[1] = N[i].coordinates[0]
>     B[2] = N[i].coordinates[1]
>     NN = append(NN,B)

Usually this would be written with a list-comprehension, 
something like

   nn = [(x.label, x.coordinates[0], x.coordinates[1])
         for x in N]

or if you really need lists-of-lists instead of lists-of-tuples:

   nn = [[x.label, x.coordinates[0], x.coordinates[1]]
         for x in N]

-tkc




From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 11 07:25:47 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:25:47 +0100
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl0svu$jsm$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Terrence Cole wrote:

> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
> 
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
> 
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

Operator precedence.

>>> -0.1**0.1
-0.7943282347242815
>>> (-0.1)**0.1
(0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)

Quoting http://docs.python.org/3.1/reference/expressions.html:

"""
The power operator binds more tightly than unary operators on its left; it 
binds less tightly than unary operators on its right.
"""

Peter


From andreengels at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:26:56 2010
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:26:56 +0100
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <6faf39c91002110426j2f41d7ebjb1775e6ee6968386@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Terrence Cole
<list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb ?3 2010, 13:36:47)
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
>
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

It's an issue of precedence of operators:

-0.1 ** 0.1

is interpreted as

-(0.1 ** 0.1)

and not as

(-0.1) ** 0.1






-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:27:14 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5765d0b-1118-425e-94a1-a2dbbf32171a@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 12:44?am, Terrence Cole <list-
s... at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?

> >>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815

Here you're computing -(0.1 ** 0.1).  The exponentiation operator
binds more strongly than the negation operator.

> >>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
> >>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)

Here you're computing (-0.1) ** 0.1.

--
Mark


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:31:54 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:01:54 +0530
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>

Do you really believe that -0.1 ** 0.1 is a valid computational problem ?
Can you raise a negative number to a fractional power ?
Output on my console (python 2.6)

>>> -.1 ** .1
-0.79432823472428149
>>> a,b = -.1,.1
>>> a**b
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>>> -abs(a**b)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

There is a little issue here that '>>> -.1 ** .1' should give you error
message. That is it.


On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Terrence Cole <
list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:

> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
> >>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
> >>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
> >>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
>
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?
>
> Cheers,
> Terrence
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Feb 11 07:33:37 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:33:37 +0100
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <hl0tev$3jn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Terrence Cole wrote:
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
> 
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

The binary power operator has a higher precedence than the unary
negative operator. -0.1 ** 0.1 is equal to -(0.1**0.1)

Christian



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:35:26 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:05:26 +0530
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002110435h17c9f17bxef0035c058a84144@mail.gmail.com>

Just realized my flaw

>>> .1**.1
0.79432823472428149
>>> (-.1)**(.1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

- a ** b = - (a ** b) and not (-a) ** b, Thats why -.1**.1 giving you
-0.79432823472428149 since .1 ** .1 = 0.79432823472428149 and minus sign is
appended prior to it.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Shashwat Anand <anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> Do you really believe that -0.1 ** 0.1 is a valid computational problem ?
> Can you raise a negative number to a fractional power ?
> Output on my console (python 2.6)
>
> >>> -.1 ** .1
> -0.79432823472428149
> >>> a,b = -.1,.1
> >>> a**b
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
> >>> -abs(a**b)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>
> There is a little issue here that '>>> -.1 ** .1' should give you error
> message. That is it.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Terrence Cole <
> list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
>
>> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>>
>> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
>> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>> >>> -0.1 ** 0.1
>> -0.7943282347242815
>> >>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>> >>> a ** b
>> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>> >>> -abs(a ** b)
>> -0.7943282347242815
>>
>> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
>> variable version return a complex?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Terrence
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Thu Feb 11 07:37:45 2010
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 14:37:45 +0200
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qot1vgst0bq.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Terrence Cole writes:

> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
> 
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) 
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
> >>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
> >>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
> >>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
> 
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

The minus sign is not part of the literal syntax. Python takes the
expression as -(0.1 ** 0.1), the binary operator binding tighter than
the unary.

Try (-0.1) ** 0.1, and try a = 0.1, then -a ** 0.1.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Thu Feb 11 07:43:35 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:43:35 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4B73FB77.1090005@timgolden.me.uk>

On 11/02/2010 11:32, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Gregory Ewing<greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz>  writes:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
>> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
>> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the German
>> forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes,
>> and the British never managed to crack any of their messages.
>
> I think you are thinking of the Kriegsmarine (naval) Enigma.  Yes they
> were more careful with procedures, but the machine was also harder to
> crack because it had four rotors instead of three.  IIRC, the Brits were
> eventually (1942?) able to capture one by shooting up a German submarine
> and boarding it to get the machine while the sub was sinking; a British
> sailor wasn't able to get out in time and drowned during that operation.
> Getting the rotor settings off the captured unit (they may have had to
> do it more than once) was enough to get a foothold into the code.  My
> memory is hazy on this by now so I may have some parts wrong, but David
> Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma" tells the story (I read it many years
> ago).  A fictionalized version appears in Neil Stephenson's novel
> "Cryptonomicon".

And for those who haven't been to Bletchley Park [*] I recommend it.
Not only is it full of interesting stuff, but it has an engagingly
amateurish air about it which I personally prefer to the sleek-and-shiny
nature of many museum-y places today. When I was there last summer I
was disappointed to see that they'd closed the Pigeon Museum. But the
Model Railway club was still there (altho' we were too late in the day
to get in) and the new Computing Museum is full of delightful nostalgic
clutter being worked on by enthusiastic people. My kind of place..

TJG

[*] http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 11 07:47:56 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:47:56 -0600
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <4B73FC7C.5040006@tim.thechases.com>

Terrence Cole wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
> 
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) 
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
> 
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

I think this recently showed up on the list and the answer 
involved the order of operations and precedence of "-" vs. "**". 
  To check, try

   >>> (-0.1) ** 0.1
   >>> -(0.1 ** 0.1)

The first one is what the assignment-to-variables gains you, but 
I think "**" has a higher precedence than the unary-"-" so it 
gets performed first.

I don't have Py3 on my machine here, and 2.5 rejects the first form:

Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Nov 19 2009, 19:46:21) [GCC 4.3.4] on 
linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
information.
 >>> -(0.1**0.1)
-0.79432823472428149
 >>> (-0.1)**0.1
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power

But perhaps Py3 changes evaluation, returning an complex number.

-tkc





From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 11 07:49:37 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:49:37 +0100
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002110449ibda3406s12f78f3fc17eb2bb@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/11/10, Terrence Cole <list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
>
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

Try this and think about operator precedence:

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Dec 13 2009, 16:50:25)
[GCC 4.4.2 20091027 (Red Hat 4.4.2-7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> (-0.1)**0.1
(0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>

I.e. -0.1**0.1 is not the same as (-0.1)**0.1, because it's first
0.1**0.1 and then a minus sign.

HTH,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 08:20:24 2010
From: wayne.dads.bell at gmail.com (dads)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:20:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: sqlite3 bug?
References: <d6b16633-4d01-44bb-a64d-87772f12923a@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2333.1265848699.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b3a318fd-5fbe-4c14-b493-773e42535c69@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

Thank you

It just highlights that when your tired things can easily be missed
and
maybe you should leave things until the morning to view things with
fresh eyes =)


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 11 08:21:56 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:21:56 +0000
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
In-Reply-To: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl109m$fos$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/07/10 19:02, T wrote:
> I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> account, that I wish to have execute some commands.  Specifically, the
> program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel.  Right now
> I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so.  When I run it interactively via
> an admin account, all is well.  However, when I'm running it via
> service, no luck.  I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing.  What
> would be the best way around this?  Thanks!

All being said about LS account not having the appropriate rights to 
access the necessary devices/files.

Could it be so simple that the network is plain simply not available at 
all? For wireless connections I believe the connection/authentication by 
default is made in user space. I would save the output of an ipconfig 
run as the LS account to a file and see what is happening.
Perhaps followed by a ping.

-- 
mph


From vishal_shetye at persistent.co.in  Thu Feb 11 08:27:51 2010
From: vishal_shetye at persistent.co.in (Vishal Shetye)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:57:51 +0530
Subject: base32hex support in python?
Message-ID: <14B8F27D7CE40C4C9E481B2B845C2E0D026A34BDCF@EXCHANGE.persistent.co.in>

Hi,
One of the modules that I am currently working on requires base32hex encoding as defined by RFC 4648, section 7.
I checked base64 module which has base32encode/decode functionality but not with extended hex alphabet.
Is there a module, currently available, that provides this?

As far as I see, it looks fairly simple to add support for base32hex. It differs from the base32 encoding only in the alphabet used. I am willing to provide a patch.
Just to note, map01 argument won't be applicable to base32hexdecode as this encoding uses both 0 (zero) and O (oh) in its alphabet.

Looking at the section 13 of RFC 4648, I think, adding base32hex support would make it conform to RFC 4648.

-
Vishal

DISCLAIMER
==========
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From marklocklear at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 08:33:41 2010
From: marklocklear at gmail.com (Lumbee)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:33:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: exception in Tkinter on Ubtunu...
Message-ID: <561ee0cf-f1fd-49ee-89e9-527124f9ff62@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

...hey guys, I posted this over on the Ubuntu forums with no luck. I'm
running Ubuntu 9.10 and python 2.5. In Idle when I type in a function
I get this error...

>>> Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1417, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/MultiCall.py", line 151, in handler
    r = l[i](event)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/CallTips.py", line 55, in
try_open_calltip_event
    self.open_calltip(False)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/CallTips.py", line 79, in
open_calltip
    self.calltip.showtip(arg_text, sur_paren[0], sur_paren[1])
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/CallTipWindow.py", line 66, in
showtip
    self.position_window()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/idlelib/CallTipWindow.py", line 35, in
position_window
    self.parencol))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2860, in bbox
    self.tk.call((self._w, 'bbox') + args)) or None
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1033, in _getints
    return tuple(map(getint, self.tk.splitlist(string)))
ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '(167,'
testNestEggFixed(

...I've tried reinstalling, and am not sure where to go from here. I
also get a 2nd small windows about 2X2" with 'idle' in the title, and
nothing in the box, and I cannot use the mouse if I open a Python
program from Idle. Any ideas?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 11 08:34:16 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:34:16 +0100
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer and client address
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002101956x1298f01euc40285c2227a0598@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15978e65-2b55-4424-8536-b486a97be793@o16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>	<4B735F0F.6080503@sequans.com>
	<7a9c25c21002101956x1298f01euc40285c2227a0598@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B740758.8020208@sequans.com>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> <jeanmichel at sequans.com <mailto:jeanmichel at sequans.com>> wrote:
>
>     I don't know exactly what you are trying to do, but if your server
>     requires informations from the client, it would be better to ask
>     explicitly the client for those informations.
>     For instance, if a method requires te client IP address, then the
>     IP address is definitely a parameter of the method.
>
>
> I can't answer the OP, as I don't know the answer to his specific 
> question-- but er, asking a client to provide one's IP address is not 
> really a very workable solution. There's no way to really determine 
> your own IP address in a reliable way.
>
> All the usual methods (e.g., 
> socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())) can fail and/or be wrong 
> in some not terribly uncommon situations. The only reliable way to get 
> such a piece of information is to connect to a server, and ask that 
> server what address you were connecting to them as. Even then, that IP 
> may not be the same as an IP you use to connect to say, a different 
> server (on a different network)
>
> --S
You're probably right.
But my point covered only the fact that if a method needs something it 
should ask it explicitly throught parameters, not taking the opportunity 
to guess it since it happens that it's a xmlrpc server and that the 
information could be deduced from the client IP address.

My feeling is that the OP needed something else than the client IP 
address, and was trying at the server side to map client IPs with the 
data he effectively needs. I could be wrong though.

JM






From Juergen.Hermann at 1und1.de  Thu Feb 11 08:34:26 2010
From: Juergen.Hermann at 1und1.de (jhermann)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:34:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your beloved python features
References: <28c6967f-7637-4823-aee9-15487e1ce98b@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8504b5fe-8776-4c60-a001-a27bc0225f6d@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

$ python -c "import this"


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 11 08:38:46 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 13:38:46 GMT
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<mailman.2365.1265892483.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1C8AAF857DCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:

> But perhaps Py3 changes evaluation, returning an complex number.

Yes, the change is documented at 
http://docs.python.org/3.1/reference/expressions.html#the-power-operator

If it is in any of the "What's new in Python x.xx" documents or in a PEP 
somewhere I haven't spotted it.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From zasaconsulting at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 09:16:12 2010
From: zasaconsulting at gmail.com (Alexzive)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:16:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to improve this cycle (extracting data from structured 
	array)?
References: <6ab43302-8700-495e-a2f7-c52282c62301@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2358.1265890121.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <992f5035-904f-49b6-9d6a-6bf16cd03e32@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 1:08?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Alexzive wrote:
> > I am just wondering if there is a quick way to improve this algorithm
> > [N is a structured array which hold info about the nodes n of a finite
> > element mesh, and n is about 300.000). I need to extract info from N
> > and put it in to a 3*n matrix NN which I reshape then with numpy. I
> > think to "append" is quite unefficient:
>
> > ***********************************************************
> > N = odb.rootAssembly.instances['PART-1-1'].nodes
>
> > NN=[]
>
> > B=[0,0,0]
> > ?#auxsiliar vector
> > for i in range(len(N)):
> > ? ? B[0] = N[i].label
> > ? ? B[1] = N[i].coordinates[0]
> > ? ? B[2] = N[i].coordinates[1]
> > ? ? NN = append(NN,B)
>
> Usually this would be written with a list-comprehension,
> something like
>
> ? ?nn = [(x.label, x.coordinates[0], x.coordinates[1])
> ? ? ? ? ?for x in N]
>
> or if you really need lists-of-lists instead of lists-of-tuples:
>
> ? ?nn = [[x.label, x.coordinates[0], x.coordinates[1]]
> ? ? ? ? ?for x in N]
>
> -tkc

yeah, much better thanks!
Alex


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 09:21:57 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:21:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<mailman.2365.1265892483.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<Xns9D1C8AAF857DCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9ea745cf-e10e-4b61-a2bc-8390f54c79ff@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 1:38?pm, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> > But perhaps Py3 changes evaluation, returning an complex number.
>
> Yes, the change is documented athttp://docs.python.org/3.1/reference/expressions.html#the-power-operator
>
> If it is in any of the "What's new in Python x.xx" documents or in a PEP
> somewhere I haven't spotted it.

Not in the 'what's new' documents, as far as I can tell, but this
change was introduced as part of implementing PEP 3141.

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3141/

Here's an extract from the PEP, describing the 'Complex' abstract base
class:


class Complex(Number):
    """Complex defines the operations that work on the builtin complex
type.

    In short, those are: conversion to complex, bool(), .real, .imag,
    +, -, *, /, **, abs(), .conjugate(), ==, and !=.

    If it is given heterogenous arguments, and doesn't have special
    knowledge about them, it should fall back to the builtin complex
    type as described below.
    """

    <snip lots of other abstractmethods here>

    @abstractmethod
    def __pow__(self, exponent):
        """a**b; should promote to float or complex when necessary."""
        raise NotImplementedError


--
Mark


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 09:32:33 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:32:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
Message-ID: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

To all,
I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
windowsXP  I get a crash:
    'sorry for the inconvenience' etc  (so no clues about what is
causing the problem)

This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
from 'print'), no network connections.
Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
time...but at different points.

So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)

any pointer is very welcome,

henk-jan


From cjw at ncf.ca  Thu Feb 11 10:24:00 2010
From: cjw at ncf.ca (cjw)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:24:00 -0500
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl17eh$chk$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>

On 05-Feb-10 14:53 PM, Wanderer wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
>
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> Thanks
I prefer verbNoun.  Let's remember that PEP 8 is a guide, not a set of 
rules.

Colin W.


From gilsapir86 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 10:31:47 2010
From: gilsapir86 at gmail.com (apple man)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:31:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: can you help me about this deal?
Message-ID: <608d3dbd-4705-42e8-a77b-ee425a6dc8ef@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

hi
i saw this very cheap macbook pro
500$
here:  (the 3rd from the left)

http://sites.google.com/site/applestorebyamazone1/

i want to buy it, is it a good price? can i get a lower price?
thanks


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 10:55:30 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:55:30 -0600
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl199g$jp2$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> Do you really believe that -0.1 ** 0.1 is a valid computational problem
> ? Can you raise a negative number to a fractional power ?
> Output on my console (python 2.6)
>
>  >>> -.1 ** .1
> -0.79432823472428149
>  >>> a,b = -.1,.1
>  >>> a**b
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>  >>> -abs(a**b)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ValueError: negative number cannot be raised to a fractional power
>
> There is a little issue here that '>>> -.1 ** .1' should give you error
> message. That is it.

No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid mathematically. 
The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what the OP is using), this has 
been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 10:59:41 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:59:41 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p
	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl19kg$m8o$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
[...]
>> In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
>> to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
>> hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.
>>
>> You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to tell people to "learn to
>> read",
> 
> I have not used that expression.
> 
> However I have suggest and emphasized that it might help to *read*
> whatever one quotes, when the quoted material (such as one paragraph)
> has not been read.
> 
> Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply
> that the person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.
> Telling a person to read something that's obviously not been read is
> quite another matter. So, you are misrepresenting  --  again  --  and in
> a quite revealing way, sorry.
> 
Pardon me? You used it on December 16 in a response to Mensanator in
message <hgbri8$e17$1 at news.eternal-september.org>

M :> How about devoting a section on downloading the source files
M :> and compiling it on a Mac?

AS:> Learn to read.

AS:> At the top of every second page it tells you that this is an
AS:> introduction based on Windows.

I am sure you will have some glib response as to why this wasn't rude at
all. Allow me to correct you - it was, and rudeness is not welcomed on
comp.lang.python. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen (why, I have even
been known to be rude myself - we are none of us perfect, after all).

I have already given ample evidence that when I am wrong I will admit
it. You, contrariwise, maintain that you will admit when you are wrong
(I believe 40% of the time was the figure you used) but I fail to
remember any single incident when you made such an admission.

>> and calling their assertions "bullshit",
> 
> Yes, in this group, but only for personal attacks.
> 
> Such as yours.
> 
> I think I've shown extreme restraint in the face of bullying from you
> and some followers, and calling the insinuations bullshit is quite mild.

I don't have "followers". Assertions I make are my own, and stand alone
without the need of support. Calling them "bullshit" is indeed quite
mild, but doesn't invalidate them. You can only do that by engaging, but
instead you hysterically shout "ad hominem" whenever anyone makes a
personal remark.
> 
>> but when we try to point
>> out aspects of your behavior that are either undesirable or unacceptable
>> we are indulging in "ad hominem attacks".
> 
> That is an untrue and extremely misleading description of what you've
> been doing.
> 
I'll let that be judged on the record. You have consistently refused to
accept, despite assertions from several individuals (presumably those
you choose to characterize as my "followers", thereby allowing you to
write them off without seriously considering what they say - at least
that is how it looks from the outside) that criticism of your behavior
is not, in fact, an ad hominem attack but an attempt to engage you in
debate and have you modify that behavior.

So, for the final time: remarks about personal characteristics only
constitute ad hominem attacks ONLY when they are made for the purpose of
invalidating other (typically, in this group, technical) arguments.

If we met in person at a conference (God help us both) and you sat in an
open space session picking your nose, would you deem it an "ad hominem
attack" if I told you to stop? It sounds like it, even though I would
tell you to stop not so that others would respect your technical
arguments any less, but because by departing from the accepted standards
of behavior you would offend others.
> 
>> In your terms, your accusing me of bullying behavior is an ad hominem
>> attack on me, so I won't bother to respond further.
> 
> You're complaining about the person you're hitting saying clearly what
> you did.
> 
> If some truthful words about bullying can get you straight I'm for it.
> 
> Even if it means getting down to your level (and yes, I did).
> 
Nope, I'm not complaining at all. That's your tactic: "look, Steve is
hitting me". You are entitled to write what you like on this newsgroup,
but you have to accept that it will have consequences. I am simply
pointing out that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 10:59:49 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:59:49 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl19ko$m8o$2@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano:
[...]
>> accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from yours,
> 
> That is untrue.
> 
Well, that says it all really.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:17:44 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:17:44 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
Message-ID: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

I'm getting an exception (on socket) handled in a program I'm trying to 
debug. I have trouble locating where exactly that happens.

In such situation turning exception handling off could be useful, bc 
unhandled exception stack trace is precisely what I'm trying to obtain.

Anybody knows of such possibility?

Regards,
mk



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 11 11:23:34 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:23:34 +0000
Subject: method names nounVerb or verbNoun
In-Reply-To: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
References: <8336759e-b47b-45dc-8d10-03e4e7ee00c4@s17g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl1au8$n2g$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/05/10 19:53, Wanderer wrote:
> Which is the more accepted way to compose method names nounVerb or
> verbNoun?
>
> For example voltageGet or getVoltage? getVoltage sounds more normal,
> but voltageGet is more like voltage.Get. I seem to mix them and I
> should probably pick one way and stick with it.
>
> Thanks

For me personally I do the following:
spam_get/spam_set; might be preferred if you have more spam_* functions 
(i.e. spam_del, spam_eat, etc.)

set_spam/get_spam; is I think reasonable if you have also a *_ham 
function (i.e. set_ham, get_ham).

Funny thing for me is that when I have both spam_* & *_ham naming, I 
usually rethink my approach and split it out to separate classes/modules.

Please note that this is at the moment a personal, uneducated, never 
really thought about it, preference. Meaning it is very likely that with 
some more insight there is a good chance that I find my approach in 
retrospect flawed.

-- 
mph


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Thu Feb 11 11:23:38 2010
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 18:23:38 +0200
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Robert Kern writes:
> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> > There is a little issue here that '>>> -.1 ** .1' should give you
> > error message. That is it.
> 
> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.

Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time. The
error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 11:27:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:27:17 -0500
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl1b88$s1g$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm getting an exception (on socket) handled in a program I'm trying to
> debug. I have trouble locating where exactly that happens.
> 
> In such situation turning exception handling off could be useful, bc
> unhandled exception stack trace is precisely what I'm trying to obtain.
> 
> Anybody knows of such possibility?
> 
> Regards,
> mk
> 
If the exception is currently being trapped by a handler in your code
you could just insert a "raise" statement at the start of that handler.
This will re-raise the same exception, which will presumably not be
caught a second time?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 11 11:41:58 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:41:58 +0100
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
In-Reply-To: <c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b743340$0$20738$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

catonano a ?crit :
(snip)
> Today, I tried to understand the twisted.web.client code and I found 3
> methods I couldn't find by who were called.
> 
> I asked on the mailing list and they suggested me where they were
> called and that the tool for such thing is "grep".
> 
> So, you grep, you get a list of files, you open each one of them and
> keep scrolling

May I suggest reading grep's FineManual ? with proper options, you'll 
get not only the file, but also the exact lines (and lineno) where the 
expression appears.

> If it's this, then it's not experimental at all, it's been done
> already and been put apart.
> 
> Crap won :-(

Ever read "worst is better" ?-)

Now, image-based systems like Smalltalk do have their share of quirks 
and drawbacks too.

Also, Smalltalk's toolbox can only be used by and for Smalltalk. A bit 
autistic, he ?

I'm doing mostly web development nowadays. That means that I'm 
constantly switching between server-side code (mostly Python or PHP but 
  can be almost any other language), shell scripts, SQL, html + whatever 
templating language is used by this project, javascript and css. And of 
course quite a few configuration file formats...

So well, as far as I'm concerned, not having to learn 42+ different 
toolboxes is a big plus (having to remember 42+ different languages is 
already hard enough) - I can use a same code editor (Emacs) and standard 
unix/linux text-handling tools on all my codebase.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 11:43:45 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 08:43:45 -0800
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
References: <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list at python.org>,
mk  <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have a problem with a threaded program: it frequently hangs on sys.exit.
>
>The problem is that my program uses threads which in turn use paramiko 
>library, which itself is threaded.
>
>I try to gracefully close the threads (below), but it doesn't always 
>work, if paramiko calls happen to be at stage of negotiating ssh 
>connection or smth similar.
>
>The only workable solution I have is a program sending itself SIGKILL, 
>which makes it terminated by OS (I think so).

You can also use os._exit().
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:45:05 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:45:05 +0100
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>

kj wrote:
> I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
> that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:
> 
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> (There, see?  My Unicodephobia just went up a notch.)
> 
> Here's the thing: I don't even know how to *begin* debugging errors
> like this.  This is where I could use some help.

 >>> a=u'\u0104'
 >>>
 >>> type(a)
<type 'unicode'>
 >>>
 >>> nu=a.encode('utf-8')
 >>>
 >>> type(nu)
<type 'str'>


See what I mean? You encode INTO string, and decode OUT OF string.

To make matters more complicated, str.encode() internally DECODES from 
string into unicode:

 >>> nu
'\xc4\x84'
 >>>
 >>> type(nu)
<type 'str'>
 >>> nu.encode()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc4 in position 0: 
ordinal not in range(128)

There's logic to this, although it makes my brain want to explode. :-)

Regards,
mk




From mgulsoy at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:45:30 2010
From: mgulsoy at gmail.com (M3RT)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:45:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:47:59 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:47:59 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1b88$s1g$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org> <hl1b88$s1g$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl1ca2$b0$2@ger.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
>> I'm getting an exception (on socket) handled in a program I'm trying to
>> debug. I have trouble locating where exactly that happens.

> If the exception is currently being trapped by a handler in your code

It's not my code.

> you could just insert a "raise" statement at the start of that handler.
> This will re-raise the same exception, which will presumably not be
> caught a second time?

I don't know where the handler is, that is precisely a problem. I'm 
trying to locate that handler.

Regards,
mk



From simon at brunningonline.net  Thu Feb 11 12:07:46 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:07:46 +0000
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 February 2010 16:17, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm getting an exception (on socket) handled in a program I'm trying to
> debug. I have trouble locating where exactly that happens.
>
> In such situation turning exception handling off could be useful, bc
> unhandled exception stack trace is precisely what I'm trying to obtain.
>
> Anybody knows of such possibility?

Not as far as I know. Besides, the chances are that if you were to be
able to turn off exception handling altogether your code wouldn't make
it as far as the code you are interested in anyway.

Is there some way you could monkey patch the exception class to add
some logging in there or something?

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:12:20 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:12:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 5:45?pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?

Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
(where is the bug?)

kind regards, henk-jan


From coldtortuga at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:30:04 2010
From: coldtortuga at gmail.com (Francis Carr)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:30:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5b51740d-11f1-4f01-b51c-d1b6ea161eb7@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

> I can't believe the code editing situation today is in a such sorry
> state.
I can't believe an old coder is feeling so sorry for himself.


> Today, I tried to understand the twisted.web.client code and I found 3
> methods I couldn't find by who were called.
>
> I asked on the mailing list and they suggested me where they were
> called and that the tool for such thing is "grep".
>
> So, you grep, you get a list of files, you open each one of them and
> keep scrolling and switching from one file to another... endlessly.
> Maybe I'm getting old, but I tend to get lost in the process.

Maybe the relevant lesson to be taken from Smalltalk is *not*
  "put it all in one image"
but instead
  "write code to solve problems, e.g., reading code"


I suggest defining a few shell functions to *automate* the search, for
example in zsh

function allf () {
  # Recursively find files with suffix matching comma-separated list
in $1.
  # For example, "allf cpp,hpp" finds all "*.cpp" and "*.hpp".
  find . -type f | grep -E "\.(${1//,/|})$"
}

function src () {
  # Similar to "allf", then search for a regex among the results.
  find . -type f -print0 | grep -zE "\.(${1//,/|})$" | xargs -0 grep -
lE $2
}

function srcl () {
  # Similar to "src" (see above),
  # then search for a pattern among the results,
  # and pass matching files to "less".
  src $1 $2 | xargs less -p $2
}


Smalltalk's images are cool.  But they are such a huge hammer, and
they impose so many additional requirements!  The costs outweigh the
cool.

 -- FC


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:32:55 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:32:55 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> Not as far as I know. Besides, the chances are that if you were to be
> able to turn off exception handling altogether your code wouldn't make
> it as far as the code you are interested in anyway.

Sure, but I could deal with that, jerry-rigging the code as exceptions 
go by, finally reaching the exception I care about.

With all the problems, this would still be much better than nothing. As 
thing are, the only way to do this is guessing and turning particular 
try / except blocks off.

(a really nifty solution would be turning exceptions on or off per 
module / file basis).

IIRC Lua and/or C++ do have this ability, why not Python?

I smell material for a PEP.

> Is there some way you could monkey patch the exception class to add
> some logging in there or something?

Sure I can, but how do I get out of Python the info *what called 
particular class/instance*? That is, how do I know who's the caller?

Regards,
mk



From no.email at please.post  Thu Feb 11 12:37:27 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:37:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2379.1265906673.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1f8n$47l$1@reader2.panix.com>



In <mailman.2379.1265906673.28905.python-list at python.org> mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:

>To make matters more complicated, str.encode() internally DECODES from 
>string into unicode:

> >>> nu
>'\xc4\x84'
> >>>
> >>> type(nu)
><type 'str'>
> >>> nu.encode()
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc4 in position 0: 
>ordinal not in range(128)

>There's logic to this, although it makes my brain want to explode. :-)


Thanks for pointing this one out!  It could have easily pushed my
Unicodephobia into the incurable zone...

~K


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 12:45:52 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:45:52 -0800
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Simon Brunning wrote:
>
>> Not as far as I know. Besides, the chances are that if you were to be
>> able to turn off exception handling altogether your code wouldn't make
>> it as far as the code you are interested in anyway.
>>
>
> Sure, but I could deal with that, jerry-rigging the code as exceptions go
> by, finally reaching the exception I care about.
>
> With all the problems, this would still be much better than nothing. As
> thing are, the only way to do this is guessing and turning particular try /
> except blocks off.
>
> (a really nifty solution would be turning exceptions on or off per module /
> file basis).
>
> IIRC Lua and/or C++ do have this ability, why not Python?
>
> I smell material for a PEP.


Um, Lua has nothing even vaguely like Python's exceptions. It has errors,
and you can "catch" them only by doing a protected call. Otherwise they halt
the entire interpreter.

Python exceptions are pervasive. I don't think you fully understand HOW
pervasive they are-- "turning off" exceptions would utterly break a -vast-
amount of Python code. Exceptions are not errors: exceptions are the
uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off exceptions,
you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become infinite--
exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator. Think about that,
*every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks.

They're also used in countless other areas which are simply not errors.


>  Is there some way you could monkey patch the exception class to add
>> some logging in there or something?
>>
>
> Sure I can, but how do I get out of Python the info *what called particular
> class/instance*? That is, how do I know who's the caller?
>

Um... run your code in a debugger.

That's what debugger's are -for-.

"pdb" is a simple one. Various IDE's have more advanced ones.

I think you're better served showing us what, "I'm getting an exception (on
socket) handled..." actually means, what is actually happening with real
code and output, and getting pointers on where to look, then trying to
gather material to support an honestly impossible change :)

--S
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 12:46:29 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:46:29 +0000
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com> <hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

mk wrote:
> kj wrote:
>> I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
>> that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:
>>
>> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 
>> 0: ordinal not in range(128)
>>
>> (There, see?  My Unicodephobia just went up a notch.)
>>
>> Here's the thing: I don't even know how to *begin* debugging errors
>> like this.  This is where I could use some help.
> 
>  >>> a=u'\u0104'
>  >>>
>  >>> type(a)
> <type 'unicode'>
>  >>>
>  >>> nu=a.encode('utf-8')
>  >>>
>  >>> type(nu)
> <type 'str'>
> 
> 
> See what I mean? You encode INTO string, and decode OUT OF string.
> 
Traditionally strings were string of byte-sized characters. Because they
were byte-sided they could also be used to contain binary data.

Then along came Unicode.

When working with Unicode in Python 2, you should use the 'unicode' type
for text (Unicode strings) and limit the 'str' type to binary data
(bytestrings, ie bytes) only.

In Python 3 they've been renamed to 'str' for Unicode _strings_ and
'bytes' for binary data (bytes!).

> To make matters more complicated, str.encode() internally DECODES from 
> string into unicode:
> 
>  >>> nu
> '\xc4\x84'
>  >>>
>  >>> type(nu)
> <type 'str'>
>  >>> nu.encode()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc4 in position 0: 
> ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> There's logic to this, although it makes my brain want to explode. :-)
> 
Strictly speaking, only Unicode can be encoded.

What Python 2 is doing here is trying to be helpful: if it's already a
bytestring then decode it first to Unicode and then re-encode it to a
bytestring.

Unfortunately, the default encoding is ASCII, and the bytestring isn't
valid ASCII. Python 2 is being 'helpful' in a bad way!


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 11 13:01:15 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:01:15 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>

hjebbers wrote:

> On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:

>> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
>> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
> 
> Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> (where is the bug?)

In the platform-specific code ;)

Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 13:06:34 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:06:34 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <4B74472A.6010301@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Gregory Ewing wrote:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
>> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
>> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the
>> German forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those
>> mistakes, and the British never managed to crack any of their
>> messages.
> 
> IIRC some versions of the Enigma weren't cracked because they used a 
> different setup and different daily keys.
> 
> The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years 
> before WW2 started. Some flaws in the instructions and a known plain 
> text attack made the crack of the Enigma practical. It took the
> British scientists merely hours rather than days or weeks to decipher
> the daily key with some smart tricks. For example they started fake
> attacks on ships or cities just to have the names in some encrypted
> reports.
 >
In some cases the British had decoded the messages before the intended
recipient!

The Americans decoded Japanese messages about an planned attack on an
island, but didn't know which one because of the fake names, so they
instructed their bases to report certain problems in a way that the
Japanese could decode.

Midway reported a shortage of water, the Japanese decoded it and sent a
message about it, the Americans decoded their message and discovered
that island's fake name, and thus found out that Midway was the intended
target of the attack.



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 11 13:14:39 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:14:39 -0800
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xpr4bwsfk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
>> Um... run your code in a debugger.
>
> ..except the code in question is multithreaded and pdb is no good for
> that, and last time I checked, yappi was broken.

Try winpdb.org.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 13:19:52 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:19:52 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1hmb$lsk$1@ger.gmane.org>


> the uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off 
> exceptions, you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become 
> infinite-- exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator. 
> Think about that, *every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks. 

Ouch.

>     Sure I can, but how do I get out of Python the info *what called
>     particular class/instance*? That is, how do I know who's the caller?
> 
> 
> Um... run your code in a debugger.

..except the code in question is multithreaded and pdb is no good for 
that, and last time I checked, yappi was broken.

> 
> That's what debugger's are -for-.
> 
> "pdb" is a simple one. Various IDE's have more advanced ones.

I tried using pdb on paramiko and my own threaded code, lost some hair 
in the process, and gave up. It's good for tracing the main thread, 
basically, not for threading.Threads.

> I think you're better served showing us what, "I'm getting an exception 
> (on socket) handled..." actually means, what is actually happening with 
> real code and output, and getting pointers on where to look, then trying 
> to gather material to support an honestly impossible change :)

I'm using a threaded library paramiko (probably by now half of this 
group is sick of hearing me saying this again). 2 of (rather broken) 
hosts (Solaris, Linux) are really, really slow when responding over SSH, 
like a minute for a key exchange. In paramiko, timeout doesn't work bc 
the timeout specified there is timeout for a socket and not for SSH.

When calling transport.socket.close() via threading.Timer like this:

def printandclose(self):
     print "\ntrying to close transport.sock"
     self.trans.sock.close()
     self.flag = True


self.flag = False
timer = threading.Timer(4, self.printandclose)
timer.start()
self.trans.start_client()
timer.cancel()

... I'm getting this on the console:

ERROR (9, 'Bad file descriptor')

According to a guy who is very knowledgable on the library (thanks for 
all the help, James) this is result of catching socket.error somewhere 
in paramiko code, like "except socket.error".

I need to find that place. On top of lack of proper handling of 
timeouts, this is important bc when calling paramiko SSHClient.connect() 
(which in turn uses the same machinery as transport.start_client IIRC) 
paramiko uses close to 100% of CPU when negotiating with such broken or 
unresponsive hosts.

For my reasons, I need to get this fixed.

Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 13:24:31 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:24:31 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1hv2$msp$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> the uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off 
> exceptions, you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become 
> infinite-- exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator. 
> Think about that, *every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks. 

Hmm what if one could turn off exception handling for particular 
exception classes?



From mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 13:24:32 2010
From: mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:24:32 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4B744B60.8070202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
>> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
>> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the German
>> forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes,
>> and the British never managed to crack any of their messages.
> 
> I think you are thinking of the Kriegsmarine (naval) Enigma.  Yes they
> were more careful with procedures, but the machine was also harder to
> crack because it had four rotors instead of three.  IIRC, the Brits were
> eventually (1942?) able to capture one by shooting up a German submarine
> and boarding it to get the machine while the sub was sinking; a British
> sailor wasn't able to get out in time and drowned during that operation.
> Getting the rotor settings off the captured unit (they may have had to
> do it more than once) was enough to get a foothold into the code.  My
> memory is hazy on this by now so I may have some parts wrong, but David
> Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma" tells the story (I read it many years
> ago).  A fictionalized version appears in Neil Stephenson's novel
> "Cryptonomicon".

U-559? I think that's the one where Hollywood made a film about it, but
portraying it as a purely American action. That didn't go down too well
in the UK!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 13:24:52 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:24:52 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<7x6364gg8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4B744B74.30309@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that the Germans
>> made some blunders in the way they used the Enigma that seriously
>> compromised its security. There was reportedly a branch of the German
>> forces that used their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes,
>> and the British never managed to crack any of their messages.
> 
> I think you are thinking of the Kriegsmarine (naval) Enigma.  Yes they
> were more careful with procedures, but the machine was also harder to
> crack because it had four rotors instead of three.  IIRC, the Brits were
> eventually (1942?) able to capture one by shooting up a German submarine
> and boarding it to get the machine while the sub was sinking; a British
> sailor wasn't able to get out in time and drowned during that operation.
> Getting the rotor settings off the captured unit (they may have had to
> do it more than once) was enough to get a foothold into the code.  My
> memory is hazy on this by now so I may have some parts wrong, but David
> Kahn's book "Seizing the Enigma" tells the story (I read it many years
> ago).  A fictionalized version appears in Neil Stephenson's novel
> "Cryptonomicon".

U-559? I think that's the one where Hollywood made a film about it, but
portraying it as a purely American action. That didn't go down too well
in the UK!



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 11 13:35:59 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:35:59 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>

mk wrote:

> 
>> the uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off
>> exceptions, you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become
>> infinite-- exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator.
>> Think about that, *every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks.
> 
> Ouch.
> 
>>     Sure I can, but how do I get out of Python the info *what called
>>     particular class/instance*? That is, how do I know who's the caller?
>> 
>> 
>> Um... run your code in a debugger.
> 
> ..except the code in question is multithreaded and pdb is no good for
> that, and last time I checked, yappi was broken.
> 
>> 
>> That's what debugger's are -for-.
>> 
>> "pdb" is a simple one. Various IDE's have more advanced ones.
> 
> I tried using pdb on paramiko and my own threaded code, lost some hair
> in the process, and gave up. It's good for tracing the main thread,
> basically, not for threading.Threads.
> 
>> I think you're better served showing us what, "I'm getting an exception
>> (on socket) handled..." actually means, what is actually happening with
>> real code and output, and getting pointers on where to look, then trying
>> to gather material to support an honestly impossible change :)
> 
> I'm using a threaded library paramiko (probably by now half of this
> group is sick of hearing me saying this again). 2 of (rather broken)
> hosts (Solaris, Linux) are really, really slow when responding over SSH,
> like a minute for a key exchange. In paramiko, timeout doesn't work bc
> the timeout specified there is timeout for a socket and not for SSH.
> 
> When calling transport.socket.close() via threading.Timer like this:
> 
> def printandclose(self):
>      print "\ntrying to close transport.sock"
>      self.trans.sock.close()
>      self.flag = True
> 
> 
> self.flag = False
> timer = threading.Timer(4, self.printandclose)
> timer.start()
> self.trans.start_client()
> timer.cancel()
> 
> ... I'm getting this on the console:
> 
> ERROR (9, 'Bad file descriptor')
> 
> According to a guy who is very knowledgable on the library (thanks for
> all the help, James) this is result of catching socket.error somewhere
> in paramiko code, like "except socket.error".
> 
> I need to find that place. On top of lack of proper handling of
> timeouts, this is important bc when calling paramiko SSHClient.connect()
> (which in turn uses the same machinery as transport.start_client IIRC)
> paramiko uses close to 100% of CPU when negotiating with such broken or
> unresponsive hosts.
> 
> For my reasons, I need to get this fixed.

You could try to shadow the exception class with None:

>>> ZeroDivisionError = None
>>> try:
...     1/0
... except ZeroDivisionError:
...     print "caught"
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero

Applying that technique on a module containing

try: 
   ...
except socket.error: 
   ...

#untested
import socket

class SocketWrapper:
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return getattr(socket, name)
    error = None

import module_using_socket
module_using_socket.socket = SocketWrapper()

Peter


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 13:42:08 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:42:08 -0500
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1hv2$msp$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1hv2$msp$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl1j56$q8s$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>> the uncommon, the exceptional, case. If one could somehow turn off
>> exceptions, you can't even do a for loop: every for loop would become
>> infinite-- exceptions are how Python signals the end of an iterator.
>> Think about that, *every* for loop in Python suddenly breaks. 
> 
> Hmm what if one could turn off exception handling for particular
> exception classes?
> 
An extension of the warnings mechanism might be the easiest way to play
with an implementation ...

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 11 13:43:23 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:43:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1j4a$j61$2@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-11, Terrence Cole <list-sink at trainedmonkeystudios.org> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) 
> [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> -0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
> (0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
> -0.7943282347242815
>
> Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
> variable version return a complex?

Didn't we just do this one last week?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Hello?  Enema Bondage?
                                  at               I'm calling because I want
                               visi.com            to be happy, I guess ...


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Feb 11 13:53:04 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:53:04 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <hl1jm1$td0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Gregory Ewing wrote:
>> Actually I gather it had a lot to do with the fact that
>> the Germans made some blunders in the way they used the
>> Enigma that seriously compromised its security. There
>> was reportedly a branch of the German forces that used
>> their Enigmas differently, avoiding those mistakes, and
>> the British never managed to crack any of their messages.
> 
> IIRC some versions of the Enigma weren't cracked because they used a
> different setup and different daily keys.
> 
> The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years
> before WW2 started. Some flaws in the instructions and a known plain
> text attack made the crack of the Enigma practical. It took the British
> scientists merely hours rather than days or weeks to decipher the daily
> key with some smart tricks. For example they started fake attacks on
> ships or cities just to have the names in some encrypted reports.

I believe that all of Enigma was eventually cracked cos of two major flaws.
1) A letter could never be sent as itself.
2) The Luftwaffe were very poor when compared to the Wehrmacht or 
Kriegsmarine about security so they were a major leak of data regarding 
the other organisations.
3) The users instead of using random three letter combinations kept 
using the same ones.  HIT LER and BER LIN were popular, but the most 
famous one at Bletchley Park was the name of the guy's girlfriend.

Further, the far more powerful Geheimscreiber was also cracked at 
Bletchley by using Colossus.  Sorry some years since I read the book 
about this so can't remember the title or author.

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 13:57:29 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:57:29 -0500
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <15A7B7FA-BE34-4A6B-9D84-47CF3683E6DA@gmail.com>


On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Aahz wrote:

> In article <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> mk  <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I have a problem with a threaded program: it frequently hangs on sys.exit.
>> 
>> The problem is that my program uses threads which in turn use paramiko 
>> library, which itself is threaded.
>> 
>> I try to gracefully close the threads (below), but it doesn't always 
>> work, if paramiko calls happen to be at stage of negotiating ssh 
>> connection or smth similar.
>> 
>> The only workable solution I have is a program sending itself SIGKILL, 
>> which makes it terminated by OS (I think so).
> 
> You can also use os._exit().

This just came up on the Twisted IRC channel last night and came to the same conclusion.  Python's going to wait for threads to terminate and if they're not going to, neither is Python.  os._exit() came up as the 'last resort' way out of the app.

S



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:10:30 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:10:30 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <7xpr4bwsfk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7xpr4bwsfk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hl1kl8$1pk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
>>> Um... run your code in a debugger.
>> ..except the code in question is multithreaded and pdb is no good for
>> that, and last time I checked, yappi was broken.
> 
> Try winpdb.org.

This is a treasure! In minutes I've had this attached to remote process 
and debugging threads.

Muchos gracias Paul!

Regards,
mk




From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:11:51 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:11:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python and http POST
Message-ID: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hey All,

Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
result.

I'm using httplib2.

My two particular questions:

1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
key?

2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
'submit' the search?

Thanks all!

Matt


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:12:23 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:12:23 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
In-Reply-To: <hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <hl1koq$1pk$2@ger.gmane.org>

Peter Otten wrote:

> try: 
>    ...
> except socket.error: 
>    ...
> 
> #untested
> import socket
> 
> class SocketWrapper:
>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>         return getattr(socket, name)
>     error = None
> 
> import module_using_socket
> module_using_socket.socket = SocketWrapper()

Very interesting solution. Thanks!

Regards,
mk






From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:19:08 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:19:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <b0c800e2-54cd-49a2-b463-41d5ff347b56@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 7:01?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>
> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> > (where is the bug?)
>
> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...

if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
bugreport?
(because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)

henk-jan


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:30:22 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:30:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bb98fa54-295f-431c-b214-37a3fc8200b8@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 7:01?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>
> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> > (where is the bug?)
>
> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...

if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
bugreport?
(because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)

henk-jan


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:31:52 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:31:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
Message-ID: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hello!

I am currently developing a simple video player in python, and my
problem is that i can't find a module which has a function that can
determine if frame(image) is I or P coded (MPEG coding). I have been
using PIL but I couldnt find anything that could help me with that
problem.

Thanks for sugestions!


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:40:39 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:40:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 7:01?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>
> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> > (where is the bug?)
>
> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...

if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
bugreport?
(because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)

henk-jan


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:42:42 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:42:42 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <16651e81002111142g1447cd87t74e7f932873e7fac@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebbers at gmail.com> wrote:
> To all,
> I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> causing the problem)
>

You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
help.  At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
message.  It would be even better if you could show us some of your
code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.

-- 
Jerry


From nathan.farrar at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 14:47:24 2010
From: nathan.farrar at gmail.com (Nathan Farrar)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:47:24 -0700
Subject: PExpect Cross-Platform Alternative
Message-ID: <348a45771002111147q534fba67m831fbf3961ea55d2@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Community,

Recently I've been automating lots of network operations tasks via simple
python scripts.  Originally, I utilized paramiko but found that the module
had issues working with cisco equipment.  I switched to pexpect and things
have worked wonderfully since (I've been running this scripts in a Linux
environment).  However, I was just tasked to get these scripts running in a
windows environment and to my dismay very quickly realized that pexpect is
not cross platform compatible.

Am I stuck, or are there solutions out there?

Cheers!
Nathan

-- 
The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring
liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the
truth. -- H. L. Mencken
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From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 14:55:54 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:55:54 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2376.1265904313.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2376.1265904313.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1n8i$95d$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steven D'Aprano:
> [...]
>>> accusing them of lying for having an opinion that differs from yours,
>> That is untrue.
>>
> Well, that says it all really.

You seem to insinuate that I'm saying that Steven is lying, and/or that Steven 
is lying.

 From context and your earlier similar behavior, I presume the former only.

Anyway that's a *very* dirty insinuation.

And ...

It seems you *do not understand* the difference between an incorrect statement 
and a lie.

Which is very telling, I'm sorry.

And you have yet again concentrated on a personal attack via insinuation etc., 
diversion, which also is very telling, sorry.


Cheers,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 14:57:39 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:57:39 -0500
Subject: PExpect Cross-Platform Alternative
In-Reply-To: <348a45771002111147q534fba67m831fbf3961ea55d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <348a45771002111147q534fba67m831fbf3961ea55d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1niq$c0l$1@ger.gmane.org>

Nathan Farrar wrote:
> Hello Community,
> 
> Recently I've been automating lots of network operations tasks via
> simple python scripts.  Originally, I utilized paramiko but found that
> the module had issues working with cisco equipment.  I switched to
> pexpect and things have worked wonderfully since (I've been running this
> scripts in a Linux environment).  However, I was just tasked to get
> these scripts running in a windows environment and to my dismay very
> quickly realized that pexpect is not cross platform compatible.
> 
> Am I stuck, or are there solutions out there?
> 
It works pretty well under Cygwin (which also improves your Windows
scripting environment no end). Any chance you would be allowed to
install that?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From ken at seehart.com  Thu Feb 11 14:58:53 2010
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:58:53 -0800
Subject: python and http POST
In-Reply-To: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B74617D.90709@seehart.com>

"Use tamperdata to view and modify HTTP/HTTPS headers and post 
parameters... "

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/966

Enjoy,
Ken

galileo228 wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> result.
>
> I'm using httplib2.
>
> My two particular questions:
>
> 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> key?
>
> 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> 'submit' the search?
>
> Thanks all!
>
> Matt
>   



From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 15:16:43 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:16:43 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
> [...]
>>> In this particular part of the thread I am attempting, unsuccessfully,
>>> to convince you that a change in *your* behavior would lead to less
>>> hostility directed towards the way you present your ideas.
>>>
>>> You apparently feel it is quite acceptable to tell people to "learn to
>>> read",
>> I have not used that expression.
>>
>> However I have suggest and emphasized that it might help to *read*
>> whatever one quotes, when the quoted material (such as one paragraph)
>> has not been read.
>>
>> Telling someone to "learn to read" is a Steve Holden'sk way to imply
>> that the person is an ignoramus who hasn't bothered to learn to read.
>> Telling a person to read something that's obviously not been read is
>> quite another matter. So, you are misrepresenting  --  again  --  and in
>> a quite revealing way, sorry.
>>
> Pardon me? You used it on December 16 in a response to Mensanator in
> message <hgbri8$e17$1 at news.eternal-september.org>
> 
> M :> How about devoting a section on downloading the source files
> M :> and compiling it on a Mac?
> 
> AS:> Learn to read.
> 
> AS:> At the top of every second page it tells you that this is an
> AS:> introduction based on Windows.
> 
> I am sure you will have some glib response as to why this wasn't rude at
> all. Allow me to correct you - it was, and rudeness is not welcomed on
> comp.lang.python. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen (why, I have even
> been known to be rude myself - we are none of us perfect, after all).
> 
> I have already given ample evidence that when I am wrong I will admit
> it. You, contrariwise, maintain that you will admit when you are wrong
> (I believe 40% of the time was the figure you used)

No, 40% of contested cases. But that was sort of a white lie. I'm not that often 
wrong, and anyway it doesn't apply to me in [comp.lang.python] so far. It only 
applies to groups where only things that might be incorrect are challenged.


> but I fail to
> remember any single incident when you made such an admission.

Your memory seems to be very very bad, since I've stated I've been wrong also in 
direct debates with you.

But one person who /does/ have severe trouble admitting that he's wrong, going 
to the extreme of ad hominem attacks and using terms such as "wring" to avoid 
saying it (it's quite amazing, almost unbelievable) is Steve Holden.

Anyway, I was wrong about not having used that phrase "learn to read".

I'm not sure if I ever apologized directly to Mensanator for that, and now it's 
history, but what I do know I did was to follow up on that comment of his, 
making changes, and to acknowledge him for that in the [ack.txt] listing.

Any reader might draw conclusions from that, e.g. what I positively did or what 
I possibly forgot to do  --  we're not perfect beings any of us.


[Steve Holden rambling with personal characterizations & circular logic snipped]


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 15:17:54 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:17:54 +0100
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002081816r3b7a7c4fq5b079424dbd1f46e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hkhd7t$opq$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081816r3b7a7c4fq5b079424dbd1f46e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl1ojk$gdm$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> I use threads all the time (well, for certain types of workloads) and 
> have never seen this.
> 
> Are your threads daemon threads? The only time I've seen sys.exit() not 
> close out my program is when I'm launching non-daemon threads on accident.

The snag is that my program is using calls to another threaded library 
(paramiko) which does lots of stuff with sockets and communication 
(SSH). Paramiko in turn calls Crypto which has compiled C extensions. I 
really don't know what's going on in there, just guessing that this 
might trigger this behavior.

> Now, I do get some slightly random errors on close due to threads doing 
> stuff or returning from doing stuff while the shutdown procedure is 
> going on, but I don't really care, cuz, well, I'm shutting everything 
> down and nothing worth knowing is going on in the rest of the program.

Same as me, except I get lots of exceptions in threads if I shut down 
with sys.exit. SIGTERM somehow gets around this problem.

I'll try os._exit.

Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 15:18:16 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:18:16 +0100
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl1oka$gdm$2@ger.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:

> You can also use os._exit().

Thanks!




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 15:22:09 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:22:09 +0100
Subject: Terminating threaded programs
In-Reply-To: <hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1961.1265383809.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1c41$3ag$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl1orj$hcg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:

> You can also use os._exit().

Yes! It works cleanly! Thanks a million!

OTOH, if I use sys.exit(), it's just hanging there.

Regards,
mk



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 11 16:03:22 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:03:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d73f4114-00a2-466e-b384-d748b8828eba@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 3:23?pm, Peng Yu <pengyu... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
> and ']' means closed interval as inhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_end...)
>
> [1, 3]
> [2, 9]
> [10,13]
> [11,12]
>
> I want to get the following merged intervals.
>
> [1,9]
> [10,13]
>
> Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
> library?

I vaguely recall a similar question a long time ago. Peng, is this a
homework assignment?

Perhaps we should add a standard module called "homework". It can have
functions for all the different homework assignments we see on
c.l.python. We can simply point people to this module and then can
include the code in their answers.


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 16:37:46 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:37:46 +0100
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
In-Reply-To: <d73f4114-00a2-466e-b384-d748b8828eba@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<d73f4114-00a2-466e-b384-d748b8828eba@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl1t7g$m3$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Jonathan Gardner:
> On Feb 10, 3:23 pm, Peng Yu <pengyu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
>> merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
>> and ']' means closed interval as inhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_end...)
>>
>> [1, 3]
>> [2, 9]
>> [10,13]
>> [11,12]
>>
>> I want to get the following merged intervals.
>>
>> [1,9]
>> [10,13]
>>
>> Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
>> library?
> 
> I vaguely recall a similar question a long time ago. Peng, is this a
> homework assignment?
> 
> Perhaps we should add a standard module called "homework". It can have
> functions for all the different homework assignments we see on
> c.l.python. We can simply point people to this module and then can
> include the code in their answers.

If it's possible, there was/is this guy over in clc.c++ who responded/responds 
to homework questions with the most advanced, convoluted and, except for 
misleading names, technically correct solutions.


Cheers,

- Alf


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 16:43:17 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:43:17 +0100
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com> <hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>

MRAB wrote:

> When working with Unicode in Python 2, you should use the 'unicode' type
> for text (Unicode strings) and limit the 'str' type to binary data
> (bytestrings, ie bytes) only.

Well OK, always use u'something', that's simple -- but isn't str what I 
get from files and sockets and the like?

> In Python 3 they've been renamed to 'str' for Unicode _strings_ and
> 'bytes' for binary data (bytes!).

Neat, except that the process of porting most projects and external 
libraries to P3 seems to be, how should I put it, standing still? Or am 
I wrong? But that's the impression I get?

Take web frameworks for example. Does any of them have serious plans and 
work in place to port to P3?

> Strictly speaking, only Unicode can be encoded.

How so? Can't bytestrings containing characters of, say, koi8r encoding 
be encoded?

> What Python 2 is doing here is trying to be helpful: if it's already a
> bytestring then decode it first to Unicode and then re-encode it to a
> bytestring.

It's really cumbersome sometimes, even if two libraries are written by 
one author: for instance, Mako and SQLAlchemy are written by the same 
guy. They are both top-of-the line in my humble opinion, but when you 
connect them you get things like this:

1. you query SQLAlchemy object, that happens to have string fields in 
relational DB.

2. Corresponding Python attributes of those objects then have type str, 
not unicode.

3. then I pass those objects to Mako for HTML rendering.

Typically, it works: but if and only if a character in there does not 
happen to be out of ASCII range. If it does, you get UnicodeDecodeError 
on an unsuspecting user.

Sure, I wrote myself a helper that iterates over keyword dictionary to 
make sure to convert all str to unicode and only then passes the 
dictionary to render_unicode. It's an overhead, though. It would be 
nicer to have it all unicode from db and then just pass it for rendering 
and having it working. (unless there's something in filters that I 
missed, but there's encoding of templates, tags, but I didn't find 
anything on automatic conversion of objects passed to method rendering 
template)

But maybe I'm whining.


> Unfortunately, the default encoding is ASCII, and the bytestring isn't
> valid ASCII. Python 2 is being 'helpful' in a bad way!

And the default encoding is coded in such way so it cannot be changed in 
sitecustomize (without code modification, that is).

Regards,
mk



From astan.chee at al.com.au  Thu Feb 11 16:43:25 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:43:25 +1100
Subject: calculating a string equation
Message-ID: <4B7479FD.2050400@al.com.au>

Hi,
I have some variables in my script that looks like this:
vars = {'var_a':'10','var_b':'4'}
eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
What I'm trying to do is to plug in var_a and var_b's values from vars 
into eqat and see if eqat returns true or false as well as getting the 
value of result if these variables were "plugged in". How do I do this?
I'm also expecting eqat and result to contain various python 
mathematical operators like **, and compounded ()'s.
I'm not sure how to convert the equation; if I have to make a bunch of 
if-statements or if there is a python function that already does 
something like this.
Thanks for any help.
Cheers
Astan



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 16:48:12 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:48:12 -0600
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl1tur$3h9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-11 15:43 PM, mk wrote:
> MRAB wrote:

>> Strictly speaking, only Unicode can be encoded.
>
> How so? Can't bytestrings containing characters of, say, koi8r encoding
> be encoded?

I think he means that only unicode objects can be encoded using the .encode() 
method, as clarified by his next sentence:

>> What Python 2 is doing here is trying to be helpful: if it's already a
>> bytestring then decode it first to Unicode and then re-encode it to a
>> bytestring.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 11 16:50:00 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:50:00 +0000
Subject: calculating a string equation
References: <mailman.2405.1265924615.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2ljezigs7.fsf@googlemail.com>

Astan Chee <astan.chee at al.com.au> writes:

> Hi,
> I have some variables in my script that looks like this:
> vars = {'var_a':'10','var_b':'4'}
> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
> What I'm trying to do is to plug in var_a and var_b's values from vars
> into eqat and see if eqat returns true or false as well as getting the
> value of result if these variables were "plugged in". How do I do
> this?
> I'm also expecting eqat and result to contain various python
> mathematical operators like **, and compounded ()'s.
> I'm not sure how to convert the equation; if I have to make a bunch of
> if-statements or if there is a python function that already does
> something like this.

Yes: eval()

>>> vars = {'var_a':10 ,'var_b':4}
>>> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
>>> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
>>> eval(eqat, vars)
False
>>> eval(result, vars)
2

(Note that I have slightly modified your vars dictionary)
See a recent thread about the dangers of eval().

-- 
Arnaud


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 17:11:17 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:17 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl1va4$8bm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 1:37 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> Consider just the
> assert( t is not s )
> t = s
>
> Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?

By 'computer', do you mean 'anything that computes' (including humans) 
or specifically 'electronic computer'?

> But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.

Agreed, in whatever 'memory' the 'computer' is using.

> You describe that memory change as that t has been "bound" to the same
> object as s.

I prefer to use the word 'associated': namespaces are a many-to-one 
association between names and objects.

> By which you mean that henceforth, until the next assignment to t, t
> *refers* to the same object as s.

T and s are both associated with the same object.

> That explanation in terms of "refers" is necessary.

I disagree

> No beginner knows what it means that a name is "bound" to something means, until it's been
> explained.

I agree, which is why I am trying to avoid 'bound', etc, in favor of 
'associated'. One problem of 'bind' is that it sometimes raises the 
question of which is bound to which. 'Associated' avoids that.

> The explanation is necessarily in terms of "refers to".

I have given an alternative, even if you still prefer yours.

> When something A refers to something B, then by definition A is a
> *reference* to B.

I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do 
you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you? In either case, the 
Python definition uses 'refers to' in the same way that names refer to 
people, and did even before names were used in electro-mechanical 
computer programming.

 >Steven D'Aprano:
>> My version describes what happens at the level of high-level Python
>> code, which is the defined semantics of the language. It makes no
>> assumptions about the implementation, completely unlike yours which is
>> entirely implementation-
>> specific. My description is equally valid whether Python is being
>> executed by the CPython virtual machine on an Intel-compatible
>> processor, or hand-simulated with pencil and paper, or something
>> completely different. Yours is not.

About 13 years ago, I noticed that electronically executable Python was 
very similar to some of the designed-for-human-reading algoritm 
languages (pseudocode) that were not. I then coined the oxymoron 
'executable pseudocode' for Python. I see the difference between the 
descriptions as reflecting the difference between Python, the executable 
algorithm language and Python, the machine programming language.

 >> I describe the high-level language, you describe one implementation.
 >> Neither view is *wrong*, per se, but one describes the semantics of
 >> the language while the other describes the implementation.

I think anyone writing books using Python should at least understand the 
abstract view even if he prefers to write from the more concrete view.

Terry Jan Reedy



From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 17:26:34 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:26:34 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2032$se2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Terry Reedy:
> On 2/11/2010 1:37 AM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> Consider just the
>> assert( t is not s )
>> t = s
>>
>> Does this change anything at all in the computer's memory?
> 
> By 'computer', do you mean 'anything that computes' (including humans) 
> or specifically 'electronic computer'?

In this context I mean the virtual machine that a Python language assumes.

Doesn't matter if it's electronic or a pen-and-pencil simulation.


>> But since it does have an effect, a memory change has been effected.
> 
> Agreed, in whatever 'memory' the 'computer' is using.
> 
>> You describe that memory change as that t has been "bound" to the same
>> object as s.
> 
> I prefer to use the word 'associated': namespaces are a many-to-one 
> association between names and objects.
> 
>> By which you mean that henceforth, until the next assignment to t, t
>> *refers* to the same object as s.
> 
> T and s are both associated with the same object.
> 
>> That explanation in terms of "refers" is necessary.
> 
> I disagree
> 
>> No beginner knows what it means that a name is "bound" to something 
>> means, until it's been
>> explained.
> 
> I agree, which is why I am trying to avoid 'bound', etc, in favor of 
> 'associated'. One problem of 'bind' is that it sometimes raises the 
> question of which is bound to which. 'Associated' avoids that.
> 
>> The explanation is necessarily in terms of "refers to".
> 
> I have given an alternative, even if you still prefer yours.

"Associated" is just less precise than "refers".

"Associated" is two-way.

Anyway it's just a term, and if you define it to mean a one-way reference, then 
nothing substantial is changed except more room for misunderstanding.


>> When something A refers to something B, then by definition A is a
>> *reference* to B.
> 
> I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do 
> you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you?

Yes, and that's irrelevant, because you can't change a name. It's a slightly 
different meaning. But a name edit field with my name in it most probably refers 
to me.


> In either case, the 
> Python definition uses 'refers to' in the same way that names refer to 
> people, and did even before names were used in electro-mechanical 
> computer programming.

That's so subtle a distinction that it appears meaningless to me.

It says "refers to" but doesn't mean "refers to"?



>  >Steven D'Aprano:
>>> My version describes what happens at the level of high-level Python
>>> code, which is the defined semantics of the language. It makes no
>>> assumptions about the implementation, completely unlike yours which is
>>> entirely implementation-
>>> specific. My description is equally valid whether Python is being
>>> executed by the CPython virtual machine on an Intel-compatible
>>> processor, or hand-simulated with pencil and paper, or something
>>> completely different. Yours is not.
> 
> About 13 years ago, I noticed that electronically executable Python was 
> very similar to some of the designed-for-human-reading algoritm 
> languages (pseudocode) that were not. I then coined the oxymoron 
> 'executable pseudocode' for Python. I see the difference between the 
> descriptions as reflecting the difference between Python, the executable 
> algorithm language and Python, the machine programming language.
> 
>  >> I describe the high-level language, you describe one implementation.
>  >> Neither view is *wrong*, per se, but one describes the semantics of
>  >> the language while the other describes the implementation.
> 
> I think anyone writing books using Python should at least understand the 
> abstract view even if he prefers to write from the more concrete view.

It seems to me that you lack an understanding of the abstract here, going into 
imagined and not concretely discussed differences between "refers to" and 
"refers to".

Until or if (but I think it unlikely) you can explain clearly what that 
difference between "refers to" and "refers to" is, it's just wordplay.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 11 17:36:05 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:36:05 -0500
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl20s0$dd4$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
> 
>> When working with Unicode in Python 2, you should use the 'unicode' type
>> for text (Unicode strings) and limit the 'str' type to binary data
>> (bytestrings, ie bytes) only.
> 
> Well OK, always use u'something', that's simple -- but isn't str what I
> get from files and sockets and the like?
> 
Yes, which is why you need to know what encoding was used to create it.

>> In Python 3 they've been renamed to 'str' for Unicode _strings_ and
>> 'bytes' for binary data (bytes!).
> 
> Neat, except that the process of porting most projects and external
> libraries to P3 seems to be, how should I put it, standing still? Or am
> I wrong? But that's the impression I get?
> 
No, it's probably not going as quickly as you would like, but it's
certainly not standing still. Some of these libraries are substantial
works, and there were changes to the C API that take quite a bit of work
to adapt existing code to.

> Take web frameworks for example. Does any of them have serious plans and
> work in place to port to P3?
> 
There have already been demonstrations of partially-working Python 3
Django. I can't speak to the rest.

>> Strictly speaking, only Unicode can be encoded.
> 
> How so? Can't bytestrings containing characters of, say, koi8r encoding
> be encoded?
> 
It's just terminology. If a bytestring contains koi8r characters then
(as you unconsciously recognized by your use of the word "encoding") it
already *has* been encoded.

>> What Python 2 is doing here is trying to be helpful: if it's already a
>> bytestring then decode it first to Unicode and then re-encode it to a
>> bytestring.
> 
> It's really cumbersome sometimes, even if two libraries are written by
> one author: for instance, Mako and SQLAlchemy are written by the same
> guy. They are both top-of-the line in my humble opinion, but when you
> connect them you get things like this:
> 
> 1. you query SQLAlchemy object, that happens to have string fields in
> relational DB.
> 
> 2. Corresponding Python attributes of those objects then have type str,
> not unicode.
> 
Yes, a relational database will often return ASCII, but nowadays people
are increasingly using encoded Unicode. In that case you need to be
aware of the encoding that has been used to render the Unicode values
into the byte strings (which in Python 2 are of type str) so that you
can decode them into Unicode.

> 3. then I pass those objects to Mako for HTML rendering.
> 
> Typically, it works: but if and only if a character in there does not
> happen to be out of ASCII range. If it does, you get UnicodeDecodeError
> on an unsuspecting user.
> 
Well first you need to be clear what you are passing to Mako.

> Sure, I wrote myself a helper that iterates over keyword dictionary to
> make sure to convert all str to unicode and only then passes the
> dictionary to render_unicode. It's an overhead, though. It would be
> nicer to have it all unicode from db and then just pass it for rendering
> and having it working. (unless there's something in filters that I
> missed, but there's encoding of templates, tags, but I didn't find
> anything on automatic conversion of objects passed to method rendering
> template)
> 
Some database modules will distinguish between fields of type varchar
and nvarchar, returning Unicode objects for the latter. You will need to
ensure that the module knows which encoding is used in the database.
This is usually automatic.

> But maybe I'm whining.
> 
Nope, just struggling with a topic that is far from straightforward the
first time you encounter it.
> 
>> Unfortunately, the default encoding is ASCII, and the bytestring isn't
>> valid ASCII. Python 2 is being 'helpful' in a bad way!
> 
> And the default encoding is coded in such way so it cannot be changed in
> sitecustomize (without code modification, that is).
> 
Yes, the default encoding is not always convenient.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 17:39:45 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:39:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 8:42?pm, Jerry Hill <malaclyp... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
> help. ?At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
> message. ?It would be even better if you could show us some of your
> code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
> self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.
>
> --
> Jerry

the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
not copy/paste text.
how do I upload a png-file?

problem is that the same error happens over and over (I can reproduce
it), but not at the same place (the is a logging in the application so
that is quite easy to see.)
but ....I can show you my code. it's an open source EDI application.
but it is not a small bit of code....
I am more than will to show you how to reproduce the error.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 17:39:51 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:39:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <10419981-eca8-44c7-a216-508431481151@h12g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 8:42?pm, Jerry Hill <malaclyp... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
> help. ?At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
> message. ?It would be even better if you could show us some of your
> code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
> self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.
>
> --
> Jerry

the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
not copy/paste text.
how do I upload a png-file?

problem is that the same error happens over and over (I can reproduce
it), but not at the same place (the is a logging in the application so
that is quite easy to see.)
but ....I can show you my code. it's an open source EDI application.
but it is not a small bit of code....
I am more than will to show you how to reproduce the error.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 17:52:05 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:52:05 -0500
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <hl21mk$g47$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 11:23 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Robert Kern writes:
>> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>> There is a little issue here that '>>>  -.1 ** .1' should give you
>>> error message. That is it.
>>
>> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
>> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
>> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.
>
> Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time.

You forgot the smiley ;-).

 > The error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).

The compiler would never see the difference between -.1 ** .1 and the 
first and probably no difference with the second either.




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 17:56:15 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <007f26f3-5310-4ed9-bb25-b467fb248825@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 2:39?pm, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 8:42?pm, Jerry Hill <malaclyp... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > To all,
> > > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > > ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > > causing the problem)
>
> > You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
> > help. ?At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
> > message. ?It would be even better if you could show us some of your
> > code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
> > self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.
>
> > --
> > Jerry
>
> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
> not copy/paste text.
> how do I upload a png-file?
>
> problem is that the same error happens over and over (I can reproduce
> it), but not at the same place (the is a logging in the application so
> that is quite easy to see.)
> but ....I can show you my code. it's an open source EDI application.
> but it is not a small bit of code....
> I am more than will to show you how to reproduce the error.

People coming here ask for help will vary in the amount of detail
given, but I've rarely seen anyone as reluctant as you.  It's like
walking into an auto repair shop and asking the mechanic what's wrong
with your car by trying to imitate the noise it makes.

If your code is very largre, you're not going to get out of this
without doing some of your own legwork.  I'm sorry.

Do this: Take your code, make a copy of it.  Start removing code from
the copy (in a controlled way) until the problem disappears.  When you
remove code don't worry about whether it produces anything useful, the
object is to try to identify what's causing the error.  Whatever code
you removed when the error disappears should give you a clue what's
causing it.  Then, if need be, you can come back and post details.  If
you manage to get the program to a small size without eliminating the
problem, you can post it here.


Carl Banks


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 17:59:50 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:59:50 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl2254$g47$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 9:32 AM, hjebbers wrote:
> To all,
> I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> windowsXP  I get a crash:
>      'sorry for the inconvenience' etc  (so no clues about what is
> causing the problem)
>
> This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> from 'print'), no network connections.
> Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> time...but at different points.
>
> So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> any pointer is very welcome,

Are you using a 3rd-party extension (compiled-C) module? If so, I would 
suspect something platform specific in that.



From emile at fenx.com  Thu Feb 11 18:13:19 2010
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:13:19 -0800
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl22qn$k4c$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 6:32 AM hjebbers said...
> To all,
> I am running an EDI translator,

... let's say bots  :)

> and doing stress tests.
> When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> windowsXP  I get a crash:
>      'sorry for the inconvenience' etc  (so no clues about what is
> causing the problem)

... and it's running directly under python...


I use textpad.  It allows me to launch a script from a command window 
under its control, which when python subsequently crashes, commonly 
leaves the traceback in the textpad launched command window.

Perhaps that'll help?

Emile
--also on the bots list and will be digging in seriously over the next 
several weeks


>
> This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> from 'print'), no network connections.
> Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> time...but at different points.
>
> So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> any pointer is very welcome,
>
> henk-jan




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 18:20:16 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:20:16 -0500
Subject: python and http POST
In-Reply-To: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl23be$lmp$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 2:11 PM, galileo228 wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> result.
>
> I'm using httplib2.
>
> My two particular questions:
>
> 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> key?
>
> 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> 'submit' the search?

This
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/uid/sikuli/
*might* help you.



From peter.milliken at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:26:58 2010
From: peter.milliken at gmail.com (Peter)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:26:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<d73f4114-00a2-466e-b384-d748b8828eba@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <14520376-06ca-4cc9-a6b0-52b00a95700e@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 8:03?am, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 10, 3:23?pm, Peng Yu <pengyu... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm wondering there is already a function in python library that can
> > merge intervals. For example, if I have the following intervals ('['
> > and ']' means closed interval as inhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)#Excluding_the_end...)
>
> > [1, 3]
> > [2, 9]
> > [10,13]
> > [11,12]
>
> > I want to get the following merged intervals.
>
> > [1,9]
> > [10,13]
>
> > Could somebody let me know if there is a function in the python
> > library?
>
> I vaguely recall a similar question a long time ago. Peng, is this a
> homework assignment?
>
> Perhaps we should add a standard module called "homework". It can have
> functions for all the different homework assignments we see on
> c.l.python. We can simply point people to this module and then can
> include the code in their answers.

Good idea - that would (also) give the teachers a convenient place to
check for what assignments have been solved by this list so they can
propose something else.

They can also grade the submissions against the code kept in this area
- exact copies could receive an "F" (for example :-))

Peter


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 11 18:32:08 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:32:08 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:31:52 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I am currently developing a simple video player in python, and my
> problem is that i can't find a module which has a function that can
> determine if frame(image) is I or P coded (MPEG coding). I have been
> using PIL but I couldnt find anything that could help me with that
> problem.

How are you reading the video?  PIL doesn't claim to do more than identify  
MPEG files.  Also, which MPEG encoding, in which container format?

If you aren't just putting a wrapper around something like ffmpeg, I  
rather suspect you'll have to decode the bitstream yourself.  That could  
be rather painful if you're talking about MPEG-4/10.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 11 18:34:14 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:34:14 -0500
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hl1c4j$b0$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B744275.4000503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<hl1tjn$2dn$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl245l$o3d$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 4:43 PM, mk wrote:

> Neat, except that the process of porting most projects and external
> libraries to P3 seems to be, how should I put it, standing still?

What is important are the libraries, so more new projects can start in 
3.x. There is a slow trickly of 3.x support announcements.

> But maybe I'm whining.

Or perhaps explaining why 3.x unicode improvements are needed.

tjr



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Feb 11 18:36:40 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:36:40 -0300
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <op.u7zk7es9x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:25:00 -0300, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>
escribi?:
> On 2/10/2010 4:49 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>
>> I've written a decorator for "injecting" a __function__ name into the
>> function namespace, but I can't find it anywhere. I think I implemented
>> it by adding a fake additional argument and replacing LOAD_GLOBAL with
>> LOAD_NAME in the bytecode.
>
> The decorator only needs to replace the defaults args tuple.
> It does not even need to know the parameter name,
> just that it is the only (or last) with a default .
>
> def f(n, me=None):
>      if n > 0: return n*me(n-1)
>      elif n==0: return 1
>
> f.__defaults__ = (f,) # 3.1
> print(f(5))

This is simple to implement, but requires changing the function
definition. My goal was to keep the original code unchanged, that is,
leave it as:

def f(n):
        if n > 0: return n*f(n-1)
        elif n==0: return 1

(like a normal, recursive function), and make the 'f' inside the function
body "magically" refer to the function itself.

> Of course, user could still screw up recursion by providing another  
> value for 'me'. This strikes me as about a likely (low) as a user  
> screwing up recursion in a library module function by rebinding the name  
> in the imported module.

Well, if people really want to shoot themselves in the foot, there's
nothing we can do to avoid that...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jlconlin at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:39:09 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
Message-ID: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have been using Python for several years now and have never run into
memory errors?

until now.

My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
MemoryError.  I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not
2GB worth.  I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation
in Python because of the garbage collector.  On this note I have a few
questions.  FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.

1.    When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it
copy that variable or is it just a reference/pointer?  I was under the
impression that it was just a pointer to the data.
2.    When do I need to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when
can I trust Python to take care of it?
3.    Any good practice suggestions?

Thanks,
Jeremy


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 11 18:46:27 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:46:27 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

<cut all>
Well at least you are well written and more subtle than Xah Lee.
Though I find him also quite amusing, I do like a good flame-war every 
now and again, and in that perspective I solute you.

-- 
mph


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:56:50 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:56:50 -0800
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002111556x4cc04c23u2586a952fd1c8b91@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> MemoryError.  I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not
> 2GB worth.  I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation
> in Python because of the garbage collector.  On this note I have a few
> questions.  FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.
>

Is this pure-python, or are you using extension modules? Its possible a C
extension has a memory leak. Its also possible you're keeping references to
objects far longer then you need.


> 1.    When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it
> copy that variable or is it just a reference/pointer?  I was under the
> impression that it was just a pointer to the data.
>

The question doesn't precisely make sense in terms of Python, but I think I
see what you're getting at. Python doesn't implicitly copy anything: you
have to explicitly copy an object to end up with two of them. That said, it
sort of depends on what you're doing. When you pass objects into a class, if
that class stores a reference to those objects, they'll live as long as the
class does. More details would require you showing some examples of what
you're doing.


> 2.    When do I need to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when
> can I trust Python to take care of it?
>

Generally, you can "trust" Python-- and you can't manually
allocate/deallocate even if you wanted to.

If you're suffering a memory leak, it almost certainly comes from one of two
places:

1. Your code is keeping references somewhere to objects that you don't need
anymore, or
2. Some C extension you are using has some ref-counting bugs.

Once upon a time, reference cycles would also cause memory leaks, but the
cyclic GC breaks them now.


> 3.    Any good practice suggestions?
>

Look over your code: look at places where you bind objects to any names that
aren't local. Look for lists or dictionaries that you're putting stuff into
without really meaning to keep it forever, and maybe you aren't purging.
Global vars are worth a close look too.

This may be useful:
http://www.lshift.net/blog/2008/11/14/tracing-python-memory-leaks

--S
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From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 19:03:43 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:03:43 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl25p7$egj$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Jeremy:
> I have been using Python for several years now and have never run into
> memory errors?
> 
> until now.
> 
> My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> MemoryError.  I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not
> 2GB worth.  I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation
> in Python because of the garbage collector.  On this note I have a few
> questions.  FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.
> 
> 1.    When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it
> copy that variable or is it just a reference/pointer?  I was under the
> impression that it was just a pointer to the data.

Uhm, I discovered that "pointer" is apparently a Loaded Word in the Python 
community. At least in some sub-community, so, best avoided. But essentially 
you're just passing a reference to an object. The object is not copied.


> 2.    When do I need to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when
> can I trust Python to take care of it?

Python takes care of deallocation of objects that are /no longer referenced/.


> 3.    Any good practice suggestions?

You need to get rid of references to objects before Python will garbage collect 
them.

Typically, in a language like Python (or Java, C#...) memory leaks are caused by 
keeping object references in singletons or globals, e.g. for purposes of event 
notifications. For example, you may have some dictionary somewhere.

Such references from singletons/globals need to be removed.

You do not, however, need to be concerned about circular references, at least 
unless you need some immediate deallocation.

For although circular references will prevent the objects involved from being 
immediately deallocated, the general garbage collector will take care of them later.



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From sridharr at activestate.com  Thu Feb 11 19:22:49 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:22:49 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.5.5.7 is now available
Message-ID: <1E441CA2-F197-4F5B-B4F5-A5FE2E3D7882@activestate.com>

I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.5.5.7 is now available for
download from:

    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/

This is a minor release with several updates and fixes.

Changes in 2.5.5.7
------------------

- Upgrade to Python 2.5.5
- Upgrade to Tcl/Tk 8.5.8
- Upgrade to PyWin32 CVS (2009-11-10)
- Security upgrade to openssl-0.9.8l
- [Windows] Include Tcl/Tk header files
- [Windows] Allow side-by-side installation of 32-bit and 64-bit builds
- [Mac] Fix the MacOSX build to use Tcl/Tk 8.5.x

See the release notes for full details:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.5/relnotes.html#changes


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's binary distribution of Python. Builds
for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux are made freely available. Builds
for Solaris, HP-UX and AIX, and access to older versions are
available with ActivePython Business Edition:

    http://www.activestate.com/business_edition/

ActivePython includes the Python core and the many core extensions:
zlib and bzip2 for data compression, the Berkeley DB (bsddb) and SQLite
(sqlite3) database libraries, OpenSSL bindings for HTTPS
support, the Tix GUI widgets for Tkinter, ElementTree for XML
processing, ctypes (on supported platforms) for low-level library
access, and others. The Windows distribution ships with PyWin32 -- a
suite of Windows tools developed by Mark Hammond, including bindings
to the Win32 API and Windows COM. 

Beginning with the 2.6.3.7 release, ActivePython includes a binary package
manager for Python (PyPM) that can be used to install packages much
easily. For example:

    pypm install pylons

See this page for full details:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.5/whatsincluded.html

As well, ActivePython ships with a wealth of documentation for both
new and experienced Python programmers. In addition to the core Python
docs, ActivePython includes the "What's New in Python" series, "Dive
into Python", the Python FAQs & HOWTOs, and the Python Enhancement
Proposals (PEPs).

An online version of the docs can be found here:

    http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.5/

We would welcome any and all feedback to:

    ActivePython-feedback at activestate.com

Please file bugs against ActivePython at:

    http://bugs.activestate.com/query.cgi?set_product=ActivePython


On what platforms does ActivePython run?
----------------------------------------

ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:

- Windows/x86
- Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
- Mac OS X
- Linux/x86
- Linux/x86_64 (aka "AMD64")
- Solaris/SPARC (Business Edition only)
- Solaris/x86 (Business Edition only)
- HP-UX/PA-RISC (Business Edition only)
- AIX/PowerPC (Business Edition only)
- AIX/PowerPC 64-bit (Business Edition only)

Custom builds are available in Enterprise Edition:

    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/enterprise/

Thanks, and enjoy!

The Python Team

--
Sridhar Ratnakumar
sridharr at activestate.com



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 11 19:36:45 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:36:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 3:39?pm, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been using Python for several years now and have never run into
> memory errors?
>
> until now.
>

Yes, Python does a good job of making memory errors the least of your
worries as a programmer. Maybe it's doing too good of a job...

> My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> MemoryError. ?I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not
> 2GB worth.

Do a quick calculation: How much are leaving around after you read in
a file? Do you create an object for each line? What does that object
have associated with it? You may find that you have some strange
O(N^2) behavior regarding memory here. Oftentimes people forget that
you have to evaluate how your algorithm will run in time *and* memory.

>?I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation
> in Python because of the garbage collector.

While it's not the #1 concern, you still have to keep track of how you
are using memory and try not to be wasteful. Use good algorithms, let
things fall out of scope, etc...

> 1. ? ?When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it
> copy that variable or is it just a reference/pointer? ?I was under the
> impression that it was just a pointer to the data.

For objects, until you make a copy, there is no copy made. That's the
general rule and even though it isn't always correct, it is correct
enough.

> 2. ? ?When do I need to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when
> can I trust Python to take care of it?

Let things fall out of scope. If you're concerned, use delete. Try to
avoid using the global namespace for everything, and try to keep your
lists and dicts small.

> 3. ? ?Any good practice suggestions?
>

Don't read in the entire file and then process it. Try to do line-by-
line processing.

Figure out what your algorithm is doing in terms of time *and* memory.
You likely have some O(N^2) or worse in memory usage.

Don't use Python variables to store data long-term. Instead, setup a
database or a file and use that. I'd first look at using a file, then
using SQLite, and then a full-fledged database like PostgreSQL.

Don't write processes that sit around for a long time unless you also
evaluate whether that process grows in size as it runs. If it does,
you need to figure out why and stop that memory leak.

Simpler code uses less memory. Not just because it is smaller, but
because you are not copying and moving data all over the place. See
what you can do to simplify your code. Maybe you'll expose the nasty
O(N^2) behavior.


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:09:13 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:09:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2410.1265929217.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6dd5bb28-9d70-4bef-999b-a4ae7b45847a@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 11:59?pm, Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> On 2/11/2010 9:32 AM, hjebbers wrote:
>
>
>
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> > This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> > It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> > machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> > I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> > from 'print'), no network connections.
> > Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> > time...but at different points.
>
> > So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> > Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> > any pointer is very welcome,
>
> Are you using a 3rd-party extension (compiled-C) module? If so, I would
> suspect something platform specific in that.
That was my first thought. Sop I tried to eliminate that.
well, there is a connection to a database.
but I tested this with connections to SQLite, MySQL, PostGreSQL, and
the crash keeps coming.
So I think it is not a 3rd party module....
And all else is is pure python.

kind regards, Henk-Jan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 11 20:09:30 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 01:09:30 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <03849660$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:11:17 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:

> About 13 years ago, I noticed that electronically executable Python was
> very similar to some of the designed-for-human-reading algoritm
> languages (pseudocode) that were not. I then coined the oxymoron
> 'executable pseudocode' for Python.

That was yours? Nice one!


-- 
Steve


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:14:03 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:14:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2411.1265929912.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <481d2511-0bf1-4012-be1b-f1af54af5ada@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 12:13?am, Emile van Sebille <em... at fenx.com> wrote:
> On 2/11/2010 6:32 AM hjebbers said...
>
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator,
>
> ... let's say bots ?:)
>
> > and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> ... and it's running directly under python...
>
> I use textpad. ?It allows me to launch a script from a command window
> under its control, which when python subsequently crashes, commonly
> leaves the traceback in the textpad launched command window.
>
> Perhaps that'll help?
>
> Emile
> --also on the bots list and will be digging in seriously over the next
> several weeks
>
>
>
> > This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> > It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> > machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> > I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> > from 'print'), no network connections.
> > Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> > time...but at different points.
>
> > So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> > Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> > any pointer is very welcome,
>
> > henk-jan
>
>
Hi Emile,

yes, we are talking bots.

I run the bots engine from the commandline.
But... there is no python traceback. Python crashed 'hard'.

or have you something else in mind?

kind regards,henk-jan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 11 20:14:04 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 01:14:04 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2032$se2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <03849771$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:26:34 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

>> I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do
>> you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you?
> 
> Yes, and that's irrelevant, because you can't change a name.

Pardon me, but you most certainly can. Even Germany, which doesn't allow 
people to change their legal name for frivolous reasons, makes exceptions 
and will allow people to change their name if (e.g.) they have a sex 
change, or if they are burdened with a name that causes them ridicule, 
and presumably for their equivalent of the witness relocation program. 
And even Germany doesn't presume to tell people what name they are known 
by to their friends and family.

In Python, one can't change names *in place*, because strings are 
immutable. (Although I have seen a hack with ctypes which allows you to 
modify string objects. It makes a nice trick, but is completely useless 
because of the side-effects.) Even if you could modify the name, that 
would break the namespace it was stored in. But of course you can change 
names in two steps:

x = something()
y = x
del x

And lo, we have changed the name x to y.



-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 20:17:46 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:17:46 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <03849771$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.10.21.46.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkvdfc$n9b$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<pan.2010.02.11.05.46.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hl08fn$epe$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2407.1265926300.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl2032$se2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<03849771$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl2a41$kfn$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:26:34 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>>> I presume you agree that the name 'Alf P. Steinbach' refers to you. Do
>>> you then consider it to be a 'reference' to you?
>> Yes, and that's irrelevant, because you can't change a name.
> 
> Pardon me, but you most certainly can. Even Germany, which doesn't allow 
> people to change their legal name for frivolous reasons, makes exceptions 
> and will allow people to change their name if (e.g.) they have a sex 
> change, or if they are burdened with a name that causes them ridicule, 
> and presumably for their equivalent of the witness relocation program. 
> And even Germany doesn't presume to tell people what name they are known 
> by to their friends and family.
> 
> In Python, one can't change names *in place*, because strings are 
> immutable. (Although I have seen a hack with ctypes which allows you to 
> modify string objects. It makes a nice trick, but is completely useless 
> because of the side-effects.) Even if you could modify the name, that 
> would break the namespace it was stored in. But of course you can change 
> names in two steps:
> 
> x = something()
> y = x
> del x
> 
> And lo, we have changed the name x to y.

Good joke. :-)


Cheers,

- Alf


From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Feb 11 20:27:28 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:27:28 +0000
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<923ca72c-7b21-4abe-920f-b0b148df8ec7@t42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.12.01.27.27.734000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:17:51 -0800, Anthony Tolle wrote:

> 4. Consider switching to Python 3.x, since there is only one string
> type (unicode).

However: one drawback of Python 3.x is that the repr() of a Unicode string
is no longer restricted to ASCII. There is an ascii() function which
behaves like the 2.x repr(). However: the interpreter uses repr() for
displaying the value of an expression typed at the interactive prompt,
which results in "can't encode" errors if the string cannot be converted
to your locale's encoding.



From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:27:58 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:27:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pycrypto RSA ciphertext to string back to ciphertext issue
Message-ID: <4b65abb5-072f-4e3c-91eb-95eea6c8a6a9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>

Hey all,
I'm trying to convert the encrypted data from RSA to a string for
sending over xmlrpc and then back to usable data.  Whenever I decrypt
I just get junk data.  Has anyone else tried doing this?  Here's some
example code:

from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
from Crypto import Random

key = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
l = str(key.encrypt("dog",""))
l = stringToTuple(l)
l = key.decrypt(tuple(l))
print l

string to tuple:
def stringToTuple(string):
    if string[0] + string[-1] == "()":
        items = string[1:-1]
        items = items.split(',')
        return items
    else:
        raise ValueError("Badly formatted string (missing brackets).")

thanks for any help, I've been messing with this for days and have
come up dry.


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:30:39 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:30:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2411.1265929912.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0cf3d611-dc7f-4d77-b9e5-59762c022f20@g27g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 12:13?am, Emile van Sebille <em... at fenx.com> wrote:
> On 2/11/2010 6:32 AM hjebbers said...
>
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator,
>
> ... let's say bots ?:)
>
> > and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> ... and it's running directly under python...
>
> I use textpad. ?It allows me to launch a script from a command window
> under its control, which when python subsequently crashes, commonly
> leaves the traceback in the textpad launched command window.
>
> Perhaps that'll help?
>
> Emile
> --also on the bots list and will be digging in seriously over the next
> several weeks
>
>
>
> > This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> > It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> > machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> > I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> > from 'print'), no network connections.
> > Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> > time...but at different points.
>
> > So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> > Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> > any pointer is very welcome,
>
> > henk-jan
>
>



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:32:00 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2411.1265929912.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <626c4c0f-c02c-44f7-9032-5ea2c11e58a8@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 12:13?am, Emile van Sebille <em... at fenx.com> wrote:
> On 2/11/2010 6:32 AM hjebbers said...
>
> > To all,
> > I am running an EDI translator,
>
> ... let's say bots ?:)
>
> > and doing stress tests.
> > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > ? ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > causing the problem)
>
> ... and it's running directly under python...
>
> I use textpad. ?It allows me to launch a script from a command window
> under its control, which when python subsequently crashes, commonly
> leaves the traceback in the textpad launched command window.
>
> Perhaps that'll help?
>
> Emile
> --also on the bots list and will be digging in seriously over the next
> several weeks
>
>
>
> > This happens with python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6
> > It does not happen in the same setup&tests on linux. (while the linux
> > machine has only half of the RAM of the windows machine).
> > I am quite sure it is not some external module; there's no GUI (apart
> > from 'print'), no network connections.
> > Actually, the crash is not predictable....the crash occurs most of the
> > time...but at different points.
>
> > So basically I am wondering how to proceed.
> > Is it related to a memory problem? (which does not occur on Linux)
>
> > any pointer is very welcome,
>
> > henk-jan
>
>



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 20:33:14 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:33:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<007f26f3-5310-4ed9-bb25-b467fb248825@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <221e80b8-fd1b-4585-bbd6-9ccb14eedb08@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 11:56?pm, Carl Banks <pavlovevide... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 2:39?pm, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 8:42?pm, Jerry Hill <malaclyp... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:32 AM, hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > To all,
> > > > I am running an EDI translator, and doing stress tests.
> > > > When processing a test with a (relatively) big EDI file(s) on
> > > > windowsXP ?I get a crash:
> > > > ? ?'sorry for the inconvenience' etc ?(so no clues about what is
> > > > causing the problem)
>
> > > You need to give us more information if we're going to be able to
> > > help. ?At the very least, you'll need to copy & paste the actual error
> > > message. ?It would be even better if you could show us some of your
> > > code, and better yet if you could give us a small bit of code that is
> > > self contained and reproduces the problem you're experiencing.
>
> > > --
> > > Jerry
>
> > the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
> > not copy/paste text.
> > how do I upload a png-file?
>
> > problem is that the same error happens over and over (I can reproduce
> > it), but not at the same place (the is a logging in the application so
> > that is quite easy to see.)
> > but ....I can show you my code. it's an open source EDI application.
> > but it is not a small bit of code....
> > I am more than will to show you how to reproduce the error.
>
> People coming here ask for help will vary in the amount of detail
> given, but I've rarely seen anyone as reluctant as you. ?It's like
> walking into an auto repair shop and asking the mechanic what's wrong
> with your car by trying to imitate the noise it makes.
>
I am reluctant because it is a lot of code ....as I told you, it
occurs during stress tests.
I am more than willing to show how to reproduce the crash.


> If your code is very largre, you're not going to get out of this
> without doing some of your own legwork. ?I'm sorry.
I am more than willing to do this, of course.

>
> Do this: Take your code, make a copy of it. ?Start removing code from
> the copy (in a controlled way) until the problem disappears. ?When you
> remove code don't worry about whether it produces anything useful, the
> object is to try to identify what's causing the error. ?Whatever code
> you removed when the error disappears should give you a clue what's
> causing it. ?Then, if need be, you can come back and post details. ?If
> you manage to get the program to a small size without eliminating the
> problem, you can post it here.
OK, I know how to trace a bug.

As I said, these are stress tests, in this case the input files are
MUCH larger than usualy.
Other stress tests run thousands of input file of regular to big
size.....
This all runs.
It does run OK on Linux (so am I looking for a bug in my program??).
The crash pops up at different places...this makes the procedure you
suggest quite awkward.
It is a hard crash of python. There is no traceback or something:
Python dies. Python is no more. It's stone dead. It has ceased to be.
It's a stiff. It's kicked the bucket etc

kind regards,
henk-jan




From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Feb 11 20:37:59 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:37:59 +0000
Subject: Is a merge interval function available?
References: <f9ac7186-3778-4510-a3b2-5351ab1d9984@f12g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.11.03.48.04.297000@nowhere.com>
	<mailman.2345.1265861117.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.12.01.37.59.0@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:03:29 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

>>     intervals = sorted(intervals, key = lambda x: x[0])
> 
> Since Python uses lexical sorting and the intervals are lists isn't the
> key specification redundant here?

Yes, but I wanted to make it explicit.

Well, omitting the key= would change the sorting order in the event that
multiple intervals have the same start, but it still won't affect the
result of the function overall.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 11 20:50:26 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 01:50:26 GMT
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:09 -0800, Jeremy wrote:

> My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> MemoryError.  I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not 2GB
> worth.

Are you sure?

Keep in mind that Python has a comparatively high overhead due to its 
object-oriented nature. If you have a list of characters:

['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']

there is the (small) overhead of the list structure itself, but each 
individual character is not a single byte, but a relatively large object:

 >>> sys.getsizeof('a')
32

So if you read (say) a 500MB file into a single giant string, you will 
have 500MB plus the overhead of a single string object (which is 
negligible). But if you read it into a list of 500 million single 
characters, you will have the overhead of a single list, plus 500 million 
strings, and that's *not* negligible: 32 bytes each instead of 1.

So try to avoid breaking a single huge strings into vast numbers of tiny 
strings all at once.



> I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation in
> Python because of the garbage collector.

You don't have to worry about explicitly allocating memory, and you 
almost never have to worry about explicitly freeing memory (unless you 
are making objects that, directly or indirectly, contain themselves -- 
see below); but unless you have an infinite amount of RAM available of 
course you can run out of memory if you use it all up :)


> On this note I have a few
> questions.  FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.
> 
> 1.    When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it copy
> that variable or is it just a reference/pointer?  I was under the
> impression that it was just a pointer to the data. 

Python's calling model is the same whether you pass to a class 
constructor or any other function or method:

x = ["some", "data"]
obj = f(x)

The function f (which might be a class constructor) sees the exact same 
list as you assigned to x -- the list is not copied first. However, 
there's no promise made about what f does with that list -- it might copy 
the list, or make one or more additional lists:

def f(a_list):
    another_copy = a_list[:]
    another_list = map(int, a_list)


> 2.    When do I need
> to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when can I trust Python to
> take care of it? 

You never need to manually allocate memory.

You *may* need to deallocate memory if you make "reference loops", where 
one object refers to itself:

l = []  # make an empty list
l.append(l)  # add the list l to itself

Python can break such simple reference loops itself, but for more 
complicated ones, you may need to break them yourself:

a = []
b = {2: a}
c = (None, b)
d = [1, 'z', c]
a.append(d)  # a reference loop

Python will deallocate objects when they are no longer in use. They are 
always considered in use any time you have them assigned to a name, or in 
a list or dict or other structure which is in use.

You can explicitly remove a name with the del command. For example:

x = ['my', 'data']
del x

After deleting the name x, the list object itself is no longer in use 
anywhere and Python will deallocate it. But consider:

x = ['my', 'data']
y = x  # y now refers to THE SAME list object
del x

Although you have deleted the name x, the list object is still bound to 
the name y, and so Python will *not* deallocate the list.

Likewise:

x = ['my', 'data']
y = [None, 1, x, 'hello world']
del x

Although now the list isn't bound to a name, it is inside another list, 
and so Python will not deallocate it.



> 3.    Any good practice suggestions?

Write small functions. Any temporary objects created by the function will 
be automatically deallocated when the function returns.

Avoid global variables. They are a good way to inadvertently end up with 
multiple long-lasting copies of data.

Try to keep data in one big piece rather than lots of little pieces.

But contradicting the above, if the one big piece is too big, it will be 
hard for the operating system to swap it in and out of virtual memory, 
causing thrashing, which is *really* slow. So aim for big, but not huge.

(By "big" I mean megabyte-sized; by "huge" I mean hundreds of megabytes.)

If possible, avoid reading the entire file in at once, and instead 
process it line-by-line.


Hope this helps,



-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 11 20:52:47 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:52:47 +0000
Subject: Pycrypto RSA ciphertext to string back to ciphertext issue
In-Reply-To: <4b65abb5-072f-4e3c-91eb-95eea6c8a6a9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b65abb5-072f-4e3c-91eb-95eea6c8a6a9@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B74B46F.9070603@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jordan Apgar wrote:
> Hey all,
> I'm trying to convert the encrypted data from RSA to a string for
> sending over xmlrpc and then back to usable data.  Whenever I decrypt
> I just get junk data.  Has anyone else tried doing this?  Here's some
> example code:
> 
> from Crypto.PublicKey import RSA
> from Crypto import Random
> 
> key = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
> l = str(key.encrypt("dog",""))
> l = stringToTuple(l)
> l = key.decrypt(tuple(l))
> print l
> 
> string to tuple:
> def stringToTuple(string):
>     if string[0] + string[-1] == "()":
>         items = string[1:-1]
>         items = items.split(',')
>         return items
>     else:
>         raise ValueError("Badly formatted string (missing brackets).")
> 
> thanks for any help, I've been messing with this for days and have
> come up dry.

I don't know what you're trying to do with converting tuples to
bytestrings and back, but this works:

 >>> key = RSA.generate(384, Random.new().read)
 >>> encrypted = key.encrypt("dog", "")[0]
 >>> encrypted
"NB\xe9\xcf\x88\xf8b.\x81X{\x12\xeaH\x03\xe9\xc4\xd6\xdb\x00lS\r\xc9in|\xa5\xb1'
$\x90_\xc5t$\xd0\xc40-p\x8b\xd0\x95\xdb\xa6\xf7\xc2"
 >>> key.decrypt(encrypted)
'dog'



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 11 21:36:57 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:36:57 -0600
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B74BEC9.40805@tim.thechases.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> Don't use Python variables to store data long-term. Instead, setup a
> database or a file and use that. I'd first look at using a file, then
> using SQLite, and then a full-fledged database like PostgreSQL.

Just to add to the mix, I'd put the "anydbm" module on the 
gradient between "using a file" and "using sqlite".  It's a nice 
intermediate step between rolling your own file formats for data 
on disk, and having to write SQL since access is entirely like 
you'd do with a regular Python dictionary.

-tkc




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 21:38:46 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 18:38:46 -0800
Subject: timer for a function
References: <mailman.1986.1265390557.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2evm$rkl$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1986.1265390557.28905.python-list at python.org>,
mk  <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>self.conobj = paramiko.SSHClient()
>
>self.conobj.connect(self.ip, username=self.username, 
>key_filename=self.sshprivkey, port=self.port, timeout=opts.timeout)
>
>2. very slow SSH host that is hanging for 30+ seconds on key exchange.
>
>The timeout in the options regards only a socket timeout, not further 
>stages of connection negotiation, so it doesn't work there.

Does paramiko offer any kind of callback?  In a similar situation with
pycurl, I built my own timer into a callback.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 21:41:27 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 18:41:27 -0800
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2 at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
hjebbers  <hjebbers at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>not copy/paste text.

In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
exactly the message that you see on the screen.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 21:44:28 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 18:44:28 -0800
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1j4a$j61$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl2fac$iaa$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hl1j4a$j61$2 at reader2.panix.com>,
Grant Edwards  <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>Didn't we just do this one last week?

Let's do the Time Warp again!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 11 21:47:34 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 03:47:34 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Martin P. Hellwig:
> <cut all>
> Well at least you are well written and more subtle than Xah Lee.
> Though I find him also quite amusing, I do like a good flame-war every 
> now and again, and in that perspective I solute you.

The technical discussion is now at point where one poster maintains that 
references don't exist in Python, and another poster, in support, maintains that 
"refers to" in the language spec doesn't mean "refers to" but instead means 
"refers to", whatever's that meant to mean.

As a technical discussion it's meaningless drivel.

And as an argument in that technical discussion your allegation of trolling is 
just yet another fallacy, and meaningless.

But in a social context, declaring support or placing oneself within a group, or 
for that matter "Poisoning the well", it can make sense.

This group has an extraordinary high level of flaming and personal attacks, and 
it's the only group I've seen where there are threads (I think I've seen 3, 
within the last two months, not participating in them) with the regulars 
reitererating how "friendly" the group is, how difficult it is to get flamed 
here. In other groups it's not necessary for the regulars to point out how 
friendly the group is. But then, in other groups personal attacks are rare.

And so when you mention Xah Lee I'm now wondering what is cause, and what is effect.

I was informed that he'd done extensive cross-posting, and his own web site 
seems to confirm that his ISP at one time reacted to a complaint about such 
cross-posting. I've also seen directly that he has employed pretty foul language 
in characterizing Python in an article, and even without that language negative 
loaded characterizations without any evidence to back them up (like, for 
example, yours above) must be considered intentional flame bait. But did it 
start that way for Xah Lee?

I'm not going to check the archives. It's enough, wrt. the point I'm making 
about some regulars of the group, that even with such evidence of active 
trolling at hand  --  ISP reaction to cross-posting, needless foul language, 
unsubstantiated characterizations  --  based on my experience here I think it's 
just as likely that it started out by Xah Lee being flamed, perhaps repeatedly, 
with personal attacks and by group action. Or perhaps it didn't, but at this 
point it would not surprise me in the slightest.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 11 22:41:21 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:41:21 -0800
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org> <4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net> <4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>
	<mailman.2393.1265914399.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>> The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years
>> before WW2 started....
> I believe that all of Enigma was eventually cracked cos of two major
> flaws.

I think it never would have been cracked if it hadn't been cracked
(whether by the Brits or the Poles) before the war started, using
commercial versions of the Enigma that they had access to.  The military
Enigma and its operating methods got more sophisticated as the war went
on, and the cryptanalysts were able to keep up with it by incrementally
improving techniques that they were already using at scale.  If they
were suddenly confronted with the full-blown military system in the
middle of the war, it would have been a lot harder to do anything about
it.  At least, most of the Enigma-related books I've read give that
impression and even come out and say such things.

> Further, the far more powerful Geheimscreiber was also cracked at
> Bletchley by using Colossus.  Sorry some years since I read the book
> about this so can't remember the title or author.

See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
That was almost at the end of the war though.  


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 11 23:58:02 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 20:58:02 -0800
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>
>Just to add to the mix, I'd put the "anydbm" module on the gradient
>between "using a file" and "using sqlite".  It's a nice intermediate
>step between rolling your own file formats for data on disk, and having
>to write SQL since access is entirely like you'd do with a regular
>Python dictionary.

Not quite.  One critical difference between dbm and dicts is the need to
remember to "save" changes by setting the key's valud again.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 00:16:59 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 21:16:59 -0800
Subject: execute sqlite3 dot commands in python
References: <8e7295c71002051442u3ccaab0bobaa994d8dc05b07c@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2017.1265411978.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2o8b$3t8$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2017.1265411978.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>No. That's not how you pass commands to sqlite3 - you connect to a
>database, create a cursor on the connection, and then execute SQL
>statements (not sqlite commands) on the cursor. Like this:
>
>>>> import sqlite3
>>>> c = sqlite3.connect("deleteme")
>>>> cu = c.cursor()
>>>> cu.execute(".help")
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>sqlite3.OperationalError: near ".": syntax error
>>>> cu.execute("""\
>... CREATE TABLE test(
>...   a int primary key,
>...   b varchar)""")
><sqlite3.Cursor object at 0x01FD4740>
>>>>
>
>As you can see, the cursor's execute() method expects SQL statements.

However, it may not be obvious that some things that don't look like SQL
are.  For example, "pragma integrity_check".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 00:18:26 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Feb 2010 21:18:26 -0800
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl2ob2$3ib$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>
>Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the difference  
>is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).

Perhaps, but I've also found that ctrl-C doesn't work on Windows.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 12 00:31:14 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:31:14 -0500
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <op.u7zk7es9x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<op.u7zk7es9x6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <hl2p30$5dg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 6:36 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> This is simple to implement, but requires changing the function
> definition. My goal was to keep the original code unchanged, that is,
> leave it as:
>
> def f(n):
> if n > 0: return n*f(n-1)
> elif n==0: return 1
>
> (like a normal, recursive function), and make the 'f' inside the function
> body "magically" refer to the function itself.

Someone did this several years ago with a bytecode hack. I believe it 
was in the cookbook. It was rejected as part of standard CPython.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 12 00:48:30 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:48:30 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl2q3c$75q$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/11/2010 9:41 PM, Aahz wrote:
> In article<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2 at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
> hjebbers<hjebbers at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>> not copy/paste text.

I think I know what box you mean. I believe this happened  about 18 
months ago with IDLE before 3.0 was released. Something to do with MS 
VC, which is different from gcc used on *nix.

> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
> exactly the message that you see on the screen.




From frank at chagford.com  Fri Feb 12 01:59:54 2010
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:59:54 +0200
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr><mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org><4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr><mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2ob2$3ib$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl2u9l$fe4$1@ger.gmane.org>


"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message 
news:hl2ob2$3ib$1 at panix5.panix.com...
> In article <mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>>
>>Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the difference
>>is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).
>
> Perhaps, but I've also found that ctrl-C doesn't work on Windows.

I don't know if this is exactly the same, but FWIW ...

I had the following, in a test program -

    from wsgiref.simple_server import make_server

    myserver = MyServer()
    httpd = make_server('', 7789, myserver)
    httpd.serve_forever()

    try:
        while True:
            sleep(1)
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        httpd.shutdown()

I could not get it to respond to Ctrl-C.

Then I read somewhere that it must run in a separate thread, so I changed it 
like this -

-   httpd.serve_forever()
+   threading.Thread(target=httpd.serve_forever).start()

Now it does respond to Ctrl-C.

HTH

Frank Millman




From bob.martin at excite.com  Fri Feb 12 02:16:01 2010
From: bob.martin at excite.com (Bob Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:16:01 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <Re7dn.39071$Ym4.13458@text.news.virginmedia.com>

in 144446 20100212 034121 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:

>See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
>That was almost at the end of the war though.

Colossus was working by the end of 1943 - the year that the Americans first dropped
bombs on Germany   ;-)


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 12 02:29:12 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:29:12 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:

> En Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:25:00 -0300, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>
> escribi?:
>> On 2/10/2010 4:49 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>>
>>> I've written a decorator for "injecting" a __function__ name into the
>>> function namespace, but I can't find it anywhere. I think I implemented
>>> it by adding a fake additional argument and replacing LOAD_GLOBAL with
>>> LOAD_NAME in the bytecode.
>>
>> The decorator only needs to replace the defaults args tuple.
>> It does not even need to know the parameter name,
>> just that it is the only (or last) with a default .
>>
>> def f(n, me=None):
>>      if n > 0: return n*me(n-1)
>>      elif n==0: return 1
>>
>> f.__defaults__ = (f,) # 3.1
>> print(f(5))
>
> This is simple to implement, but requires changing the function
> definition. My goal was to keep the original code unchanged, that is,
> leave it as:
>
> def f(n):
>        if n > 0: return n*f(n-1)
>        elif n==0: return 1
>
> (like a normal, recursive function), and make the 'f' inside the function
> body "magically" refer to the function itself.

I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
couple of days ago:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html

It doesn't require any bytecode hacking, although it requires breaking
apart the function object and making a new one from the bits.

-- 
Arnaud


From javier.collado at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 02:59:44 2010
From: javier.collado at gmail.com (Javier Collado)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:59:44 +0100
Subject: python and http POST
In-Reply-To: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c83cde5a1002112359u3153ff29r12c28ff094a78805@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I haven't used httplib2, but you can certainly use any other
alternative to send HTTP requests:
- urllib/urllib2
- mechanize

With regard to how do you find the form you're looking for, you may:
- create the HTTP request on your own with urllib2. To find out what
variables do you need to post, you can use tamperdata Firefox addon as
suggested (I haven't used that one) or httpfox (I have and it works
great).
- use mechanize to locate the form for you, fill the data in and click
on the submit button.

Additionally, you may wan to scrape some data that may be useful for
your requests. For that BeautifulSoup is good solution (with some
Firebug help to visually locate what you're looking for).

Best regards,
    Javier

P.S. Some examples here:
http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python
http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python-part-2

2010/2/11 galileo228 <mattbarkan at gmail.com>:
> Hey All,
>
> Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> result.
>
> I'm using httplib2.
>
> My two particular questions:
>
> 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> key?
>
> 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> 'submit' the search?
>
> Thanks all!
>
> Matt
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Fri Feb 12 04:40:20 2010
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 11:40:20 +0200
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
	<mailman.2409.1265928746.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotr5oqssfv.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Terry Reedy writes:
> On 2/11/2010 11:23 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> > Robert Kern writes:
> >> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> >>> There is a little issue here that '>>>  -.1 ** .1' should give you
> >>> error message. That is it.
> >>
> >> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
> >> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
> >> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.
> >
> > Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time.
> 
> You forgot the smiley ;-).
> 
>  > The error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).
> 
> The compiler would never see the difference between -.1 ** .1 and the
> first and probably no difference with the second either.

It could be done the same way that the compiler keeps track of the
source line numbers now: early phases annotate their output with any
information that later phases may need. This error would be detected
during syntactic analysis.

:)


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 12 04:46:29 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:46:29 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit :
(snip)
> This group has an extraordinary high level of flaming and personal 
> attacks

Oh my...

(snip remaining non-sense)

Mr Steinbach, I bet you'll count this as another "flaming" and "personal 
attack", but nonetheless : you might have happier time if you were able 
to understand the distinction between disagreement and "personal attack".

(now back to more interesting readings)


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 12 05:33:19 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:33:19 +0100
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <Re7dn.39071$Ym4.13458@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<Re7dn.39071$Ym4.13458@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <4B752E6F.5070305@sequans.com>

Bob Martin wrote:
> in 144446 20100212 034121 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>   
>> See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
>> That was almost at the end of the war though.
>>     
>
> Colossus was working by the end of 1943 - the year that the Americans first dropped
> bombs on Germany   ;-)
>   
sept 1939 - sept 1945. It's nearer from the end, than from the begining.

JM


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 12 05:42:07 2010
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:42:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com> 
	<mailman.2396.1265915711.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1d2a3c99-4837-45f8-8af0-73a155011686@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 7:12?pm, mk <mrk... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
> > try:
> > ? ?...
> > except socket.error:
> > ? ?...
>
> > #untested
> > import socket
>
> > class SocketWrapper:
> > ? ? def __getattr__(self, name):
> > ? ? ? ? return getattr(socket, name)
> > ? ? error = None
>
> > import module_using_socket
> > module_using_socket.socket = SocketWrapper()
>
> Very interesting solution. Thanks!
>
> Regards,
> mk

On Feb 11, 2:12 pm, mk <mrk... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
> > try:
> >    ...
> > except socket.error:
> >    ...
>
> > #untested
> > import socket
>
> > class SocketWrapper:
> >     def __getattr__(self, name):
> >         return getattr(socket, name)
> >     error = None
>
> > import module_using_socket
> > module_using_socket.socket = SocketWrapper()
>
> Very interesting solution. Thanks!
>
> Regards,
> mk

You could refine Peter's suggestion further. For example, if you don't
want to change the flow of execution (as Peter's suggestion does) but
just log the occurrences, then you could try something like this:

# socktest.py

import socket

def test():
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    try:
        s.connect(('localhost', 9999))
    except socket.error, e:
        print '-- handler printing:', e

# sockwrap.py

import socket
import traceback
import logging

class SocketWrapper:
    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return getattr(socket, name)

    @property
    def error(self):
        # In practice you could log to a specific logger
        logging.exception('A socket error occurred')
        return getattr(socket, 'error')

def wrap(mod):
    mod.socket = SocketWrapper()

# Now try it out

>>> import socktest, sockwrap
>>> sockwrap.wrap(socktest)
>>> socktest.test()
ERROR:root:A socket error occurred
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "socktest.py", line 7, in test
    s.connect(('localhost', 9999))
  File "<string>", line 1, in connect
error: (10061, 'Connection refused')
-- handler printing: (10061, 'Connection refused')
>>>

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 05:56:19 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:56:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 3:41?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>
> hjebbers ?<hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
> >not copy/paste text.
>
> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just ? ? ? ?
> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"

The message on the screen is (I typed it over):

**************************************************************************************
python.exe

python.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close.
We are sorry for the inconvenience.

If you were in the middle of something, the information you were
working on might be
lost

For more information about the error,   click here.

                                                            <close-
button>
***************************************************************************************
the information about the error is a windows dump.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb 12 07:10:26 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 12:10:26 GMT
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1D7BD4F1EDCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> You could try to shadow the exception class with None:
> 
>>>> ZeroDivisionError = None
>>>> try:
> ...     1/0
> ... except ZeroDivisionError:
> ...     print "caught"
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
> ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero
> 

This works in Python 2.x but will break in Python 3. None is not a valid 
exception specification and Python 3 will check for that and complain.

>>> ZeroDivisionError = None
>>> try:
...     1/0
... except ZeroDivisionError:
...     print('caught')
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
ZeroDivisionError: int division or modulo by zero

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in <module>
TypeError: catching classes that do not inherit from BaseException is 
not allowed
>>>

A better solution is to use an empty tuple as that is a valid exception 
specification so will work in both Python 2.x and 3.x:

>>> ZeroDivisionError = ()
>>> try:
...     1/0
... except ZeroDivisionError:
...     print('caught')
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module>
ZeroDivisionError: int division or modulo by zero


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb 12 07:15:41 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:15:41 -0600
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<f1f14162-59d9-4bba-92fe-b50038721570@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B75466D.6040706@tim.thechases.com>

Aahz wrote:
> Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>> Just to add to the mix, I'd put the "anydbm" module on the gradient
>> between "using a file" and "using sqlite".  It's a nice intermediate
>> step between rolling your own file formats for data on disk, and having
>> to write SQL since access is entirely like you'd do with a regular
>> Python dictionary.
> 
> Not quite.  One critical difference between dbm and dicts is the need to
> remember to "save" changes by setting the key's valud again.

Could you give an example of this?  I'm not sure I understand 
what you're saying.  I've used anydbm a bunch of times and other 
than wrapping access in

   d = anydbm.open(DB_NAME, "c")
   # use d as a dict here
   d.close()

and I've never hit any "need to remember to save changes by 
setting the key's value again".  The only gotcha I've hit is the 
anydbm requirement that all keys/values be strings.  Slightly 
annoying at times, but my most frequent use case.

-tkc





From prakash.stack at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 07:17:52 2010
From: prakash.stack at gmail.com (prakash jp)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:47:52 +0530
Subject: search entire drive say c:
Message-ID: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive (windows)
and print the path/s stating such a files presence.

Thanks in advance

Regards
Prakash
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Feb 12 07:36:42 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:36:42 +0000
Subject: search entire drive say c:
In-Reply-To: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B754B5A.3000405@timgolden.me.uk>

On 12/02/2010 12:17, prakash jp wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive (windows)
> and print the path/s stating such a files presence.

This sounds rather like homework...

Have a look at os.walk

TJG


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb 12 08:01:12 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:01:12 -0600
Subject: search entire drive say c:
In-Reply-To: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B755118.7090706@tim.thechases.com>

> can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive (windows)
> and print the path/s stating such a files presence.

Well, you can just do it from DOS:

   c:\> dir /s/b/a abc.txt

Just use os.walk() and check the list of files returned at each 
directory-level iteration.

   ROOT = "c:\\"
   fname = "abc.txt".lower()
   for p, d, f in os.walk(ROOT):
     for fn in f:
       if fn.lower() == fname:
         print os.path.join(p, f)
         # break

You might also investigate using os.path.normcase() instead of 
.lower()

-tkc




From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 12 08:06:07 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:06:07 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>

hjebbers wrote:
> On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>   
>> In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> hjebbers  <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>>> not copy/paste text.
>>>       
>> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
>> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
>> --
>> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com)           <*>        http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>
>> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
>> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>>     
>
> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>
> <snip>

You shouldn't ever have to retype the message.  Just paste from the DOS 
box (or "Command Prompt").  It's easy using QuickEdit mode.

You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then 
using right-click to put it in the clipboard.

If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode.  Use 
right-click on the DOS box's title bar.  Choose Properties.  Select the 
first tab, which is Options.

You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode".  Turn it 
on, and you won't have this problem again.

DaveA



From simon at brunningonline.net  Fri Feb 12 08:21:26 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:21:26 +0000
Subject: search entire drive say c:
In-Reply-To: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002120521x3a820074r6765cc4622f912ca@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 February 2010 12:17, prakash jp <prakash.stack at gmail.com> wrote:

> can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive (windows)
> and print?the path/s stating such a files presence.

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/499305/ might be a useful start.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 08:32:05 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:32:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2429.1265979984.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c03edfbb-7dbd-443e-869e-882a2c89af52@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 2:06?pm, Dave Angel <da... at ieee.org> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
> >> In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >> hjebbers ?<hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
> >>> not copy/paste text.
>
> >> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
> >> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
> >> --
> >> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> >> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just ? ? ? ?
> >> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>
> > The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>
> > <snip>
>
> You shouldn't ever have to retype the message. ?Just paste from the DOS
> box (or "Command Prompt"). ?It's easy using QuickEdit mode.
>
> You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then
> using right-click to put it in the clipboard.
>
> If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode. ?Use
> right-click on the DOS box's title bar. ?Choose Properties. ?Select the
> first tab, which is Options.
>
> You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode". ?Turn it
> on, and you won't have this problem again.
>
> DaveA

Hi Dave,

thanks.
but the message is not in the DOS box (or "Command Prompt").
I do run the program in a DOS box (or "Command Prompt"), but the error
is a windows dialog box.
I can not select in this dialog box.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 08:34:40 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:34:40 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4B7558F0.5090403@holdenweb.com>

Dave Angel wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>  
>>> In article
>>> <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> hjebbers  <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>>>> not copy/paste text.
>>>>       
>>> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
>>> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
>>> -- 
>>> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com)           <*>       
>>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>
>>> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and
>>> just        refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>>>     
>>
>> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>>
>> <snip>
> 
> You shouldn't ever have to retype the message.  Just paste from the DOS
> box (or "Command Prompt").  It's easy using QuickEdit mode.
> 
> You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then
> using right-click to put it in the clipboard.
> 
> If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode.  Use
> right-click on the DOS box's title bar.  Choose Properties.  Select the
> first tab, which is Options.
> 
> You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode".  Turn it
> on, and you won't have this problem again.
> 
> DaveA
> 
Dave:

I think you miss the point: this message is being displayed in a Windows
error message dialog box, not in the command window.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 08:34:40 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:34:40 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4B75523F.4020903@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4B7558F0.5090403@holdenweb.com>

Dave Angel wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>  
>>> In article
>>> <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> hjebbers  <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>>>> not copy/paste text.
>>>>       
>>> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
>>> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
>>> -- 
>>> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com)           <*>       
>>> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>
>>> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and
>>> just        refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>>>     
>>
>> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>>
>> <snip>
> 
> You shouldn't ever have to retype the message.  Just paste from the DOS
> box (or "Command Prompt").  It's easy using QuickEdit mode.
> 
> You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then
> using right-click to put it in the clipboard.
> 
> If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode.  Use
> right-click on the DOS box's title bar.  Choose Properties.  Select the
> first tab, which is Options.
> 
> You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode".  Turn it
> on, and you won't have this problem again.
> 
> DaveA
> 
Dave:

I think you miss the point: this message is being displayed in a Windows
error message dialog box, not in the command window.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From eknath.iyer at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 08:41:40 2010
From: eknath.iyer at gmail.com (Eknath Venkataramani)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:41:40 -0500
Subject: pyparsing wrong output
Message-ID: <692c428f1002120541n6b3aabb0jb62c50f90715f38e@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to write a parser in pyparsing.
Help Me. http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177078/ is the code and this is input
file: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177076/ .
I get output as:
<generator object at 0xb723b80c>
*
*
-- 
Eknath Venkataramani
+91-9844952442
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From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb 12 08:53:02 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:53:02 +0100
Subject: Any way to turn off exception handling? (debugging)
References: <hl1ahb$ppg$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<8c7f10c61002110907r5724a0f1wa9e4a3c19a4455d6@mail.gmail.com>
	<hl1eu9$bj9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002110945i6b747c07i251a91c48c86f5b6@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2386.1265912358.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1im2$2hk$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Xns9D1D7BD4F1EDCduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hl3mfc$olu$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> 
>> You could try to shadow the exception class with None:

> This works in Python 2.x but will break in Python 3. None is not a valid
> exception specification and Python 3 will check for that and complain.

> A better solution is to use an empty tuple as that is a valid exception
> specification so will work in both Python 2.x and 3.x:

Out of curiosity I tried a custom __subclasscheck__, but didn't get it to 
work in 3.1:

$ cat instance_check.py
class ZeroDivisionError(BaseException):
    class __metaclass__(type):
        def __subclasscheck__(self, other):
            print "performing subclass check --> %s" % catch
            return catch

if __name__ == "__main__":
    for catch in [True, False]:
        print "catch = %s" % catch
        try:
            1/0
        except ZeroDivisionError:
            print "caught"

$ python2.6 instance_check.py
catch = True
performing subclass check --> True
caught
catch = False
performing subclass check --> False
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "instance_check.py", line 11, in <module>
    1/0
ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero
$

Peter


From ljz at asfast.com  Fri Feb 12 09:01:20 2010
From: ljz at asfast.com (Lloyd Zusman)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:01:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
Message-ID: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>

Perl has the following constructs to check whether a file is considered
to contain "text" or "binary" data:

if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }

Is there already a Python analog to these? I'm happy to write them on
my own if no such constructs currently exist, but before I start, I'd
like to make sure that I'm not "re-inventing the wheel".

By the way, here's what the perl docs say about these constructs. I'm
looking for something similar in Python:

... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

-- 
 Lloyd Zusman
 ljz at asfast.com
 God bless you.




From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 09:09:58 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:09:58 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B756136.3070202@cheimes.de>

hjebbers wrote:
> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
> 
> **************************************************************************************
> python.exe
> 
> python.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close.
> We are sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> If you were in the middle of something, the information you were
> working on might be
> lost
> 
> For more information about the error,   click here.
> 
>                                                             <close-
> button>
> ***************************************************************************************
> the information about the error is a windows dump.

I suggest you install some sort of debugger on your system (e.g. Visual
Studio) and do a post mortem analysis of your stack trace.

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 09:14:07 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:14:07 +0100
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>

Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> .... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
> .... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
> .... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
> .... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
> .... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
> .... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

That's a butt ugly heuristic that will lead to lots of false positives
if your text happens to be UTF-16 encoded or non-english text UTF-8 encoded.

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 09:14:07 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:14:07 +0100
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>

Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> .... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
> .... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
> .... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
> .... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
> .... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
> .... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

That's a butt ugly heuristic that will lead to lots of false positives
if your text happens to be UTF-16 encoded or non-english text UTF-8 encoded.

Christian



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb 12 09:17:04 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:17:04 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>

hjebbers wrote:

> On Feb 11, 7:01 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>> hjebbers wrote:
>> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
>> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>>
>> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
>> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
>> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
>> > (where is the bug?)
>>
>> In the platform-specific code ;)
>>
>> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...
> 
> if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
> bugreport?

A this stage a bug report would be useless. The details you have provided so 
far don't give anyone without physical access to your machine a chance to 
reproduce the error.

> (because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
> doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)

Indeed. The culprit may be an extension written in C that is overwriting 
memory still in use by other parts of your program.

Peter


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 12 09:18:24 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:18:24 -0800
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002120618u1d3cacccx45a0f209313b220@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:01 AM, Lloyd Zusman <ljz at asfast.com> wrote:
> Perl has the following constructs to check whether a file is considered
> to contain "text" or "binary" data:
>
> if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
> if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }
>
> Is there already a Python analog to these? I'm happy to write them on
> my own if no such constructs currently exist, but before I start, I'd
> like to make sure that I'm not "re-inventing the wheel".
>
> By the way, here's what the perl docs say about these constructs. I'm
> looking for something similar in Python:
>
> ... The -T ?and -B ?switches work as follows. The first block or so
> ... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
> ... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
> ... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
> ... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
> ... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

Pray tell, what are the circumstances that lead you to use such a
heuristic rather than a more definitive method?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From simon at brunningonline.net  Fri Feb 12 09:18:54 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:18:54 +0000
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
	<4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002120618r611ea8dfj4d2f4bbaf25a920@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 February 2010 14:14, Christian Heimes <lists at cheimes.de> wrote:
> That's a butt ugly heuristic

He did say it was from Perl, the home of butt-ugly.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 09:21:19 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 06:21:19 -0800
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2426.1265976954.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl3o4v$spg$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2426.1265976954.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just to add to the mix, I'd put the "anydbm" module on the gradient
>>> between "using a file" and "using sqlite".  It's a nice intermediate
>>> step between rolling your own file formats for data on disk, and having
>>> to write SQL since access is entirely like you'd do with a regular
>>> Python dictionary.
>> 
>> Not quite.  One critical difference between dbm and dicts is the need to
>> remember to "save" changes by setting the key's valud again.
>
>Could you give an example of this?  I'm not sure I understand 
>what you're saying.  I've used anydbm a bunch of times and other 
>than wrapping access in
>
>   d = anydbm.open(DB_NAME, "c")
>   # use d as a dict here
>   d.close()
>
>and I've never hit any "need to remember to save changes by 
>setting the key's value again".  The only gotcha I've hit is the 
>anydbm requirement that all keys/values be strings.  Slightly 
>annoying at times, but my most frequent use case.

Well, you're more likely to hit this by wrapping dbm with shelve (because
it's a little more obvious when you're using pickle directly), but
consider this:

    d = anydbm.open(DB_NAME, "c")
    x = MyClass()
    d['foo'] = x
    x.bar = 123

Your dbm does NOT have the change to x.bar recorded, you must do this
again:

    d['foo'] = x

With a dict, you have Python's reference semantics.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 09:22:40 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 06:22:40 -0800
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2ob2$3ib$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2422.1265961504.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl3o7g$l12$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2422.1265961504.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 11 Feb 2010 21:18:26 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>> In article <mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list at python.org>,
>> Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>>>
>>>Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the difference  
>>>is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).
>> 
>> Perhaps, but I've also found that ctrl-C doesn't work on Windows.
>
>	Unless the running program makes an I/O call to the console, I don't
>think <ctrl-c> gets past the device driver... <G>

That's probably it.  It's more annoying for me because I run Windows with
a VM on a Mac, which doesn't have ctrl-break.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 09:26:51 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 06:26:51 -0800
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
References: <mailman.2434.1265983307.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl3ofb$cne$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2434.1265983307.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Lloyd Zusman  <ljz at asfast.com> wrote:
>
>Perl has the following constructs to check whether a file is considered
>to contain "text" or "binary" data:
>
>if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
>if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }

Assuming you're on a Unix-like system or can install Cygwin, the
standard response is to use the "file" command.  It's *much* more
sophisticated.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From prakash.stack at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 09:33:18 2010
From: prakash.stack at gmail.com (prakash jp)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:03:18 +0530
Subject: search entire drive say c:
In-Reply-To: <4B755118.7090706@tim.thechases.com>
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B755118.7090706@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <805f59d51002120633h387323dcjb9be71e5955536cd@mail.gmail.com>

Thank u Tim Case,

all,

Also how to run the standalone generated from script taking unc path names
to account

regards
Prakash

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

>  can any of u help to search a file say "abc.txt" in entire c drive
>> (windows)
>> and print the path/s stating such a files presence.
>>
>
> Well, you can just do it from DOS:
>
>  c:\> dir /s/b/a abc.txt
>
> Just use os.walk() and check the list of files returned at each
> directory-level iteration.
>
>  ROOT = "c:\\"
>  fname = "abc.txt".lower()
>  for p, d, f in os.walk(ROOT):
>    for fn in f:
>      if fn.lower() == fname:
>        print os.path.join(p, f)
>        # break
>
> You might also investigate using os.path.normcase() instead of .lower()
>
> -tkc
>
>
>
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 12 09:39:22 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:39:22 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4b7567fe$0$13293$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Peter Otten a ?crit :
(snip)
> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...

Muhahahahaha !-)
+1 QOTW


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb 12 09:45:17 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:45:17 -0600
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75697D.5040403@tim.thechases.com>

Lloyd Zusman wrote:
> Perl has the following constructs to check whether a file is considered
> to contain "text" or "binary" data:
> 
> if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
> if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }
> 
> Is there already a Python analog to these? I'm happy to write them on
> my own if no such constructs currently exist, but before I start, I'd
> like to make sure that I'm not "re-inventing the wheel".
> 
> By the way, here's what the perl docs say about these constructs. I'm
> looking for something similar in Python:
> 
> ... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
> ... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
> ... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
> ... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
> ... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
> ... considered a binary file. [ ... ]

While I agree with the others who have responded along the lines 
of "that's a hinky heuristic", it's not too hard to write an analog:

   import string
   def is_text(fname,
       chars=set(string.printable),
       threshold=0.3,
       portion=1024, # read a kilobyte to find out
       mode='rb',
       ):
     assert portion is None or portion > 0
     assert 0 < threshold < 1
     f = file(fname, mode)
     if portion is None:
       content = iter(f)
     else:
       content = iter(f.read(int(portion)))
     f.close()
     total = valid = 0
     for c in content:
       if c in chars:
         valid += 1
       total += 1
     return (float(valid)/total) > threshold

   def is_bin(*args, **kwargs):
     return not is_text(*args, **kwargs)

   for fname in (
       '/usr/bin/abiword',
       '/home/tkc/.bashrc',
       ):
     print fname, is_text(fname)

It should allow you to tweak the charset to consider "text", 
defaulting to string.printable, but adjust the "text" chars and 
the file-reading-mode accordingly if you're using unicode text 
(perhaps inverting the logic to make it an "binary chars" set). 
You can also change the threshold from 0.3 (30%) to whatever you 
need, and test the entire file or a subset of it (this defaults 
to just reading the first K of the file, but if you pass None for 
the portion, it will read the whole thing, even if it's a TB file).

-tkc







From jlconlin at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 09:45:31 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:45:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 6:50?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:09 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> > My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> > MemoryError. ?I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not 2GB
> > worth.
>
> Are you sure?
>
> Keep in mind that Python has a comparatively high overhead due to its
> object-oriented nature. If you have a list of characters:
>
> ['a', 'b', 'c', 'd']
>
> there is the (small) overhead of the list structure itself, but each
> individual character is not a single byte, but a relatively large object:
>
> ?>>> sys.getsizeof('a')
> 32
>
> So if you read (say) a 500MB file into a single giant string, you will
> have 500MB plus the overhead of a single string object (which is
> negligible). But if you read it into a list of 500 million single
> characters, you will have the overhead of a single list, plus 500 million
> strings, and that's *not* negligible: 32 bytes each instead of 1.
>
> So try to avoid breaking a single huge strings into vast numbers of tiny
> strings all at once.
>
> > I thought I didn't have to worry about memory allocation in
> > Python because of the garbage collector.
>
> You don't have to worry about explicitly allocating memory, and you
> almost never have to worry about explicitly freeing memory (unless you
> are making objects that, directly or indirectly, contain themselves --
> see below); but unless you have an infinite amount of RAM available of
> course you can run out of memory if you use it all up :)
>
> > On this note I have a few
> > questions. ?FYI I am using Python 2.6.4 on my Mac.
>
> > 1. ? ?When I pass a variable to the constructor of a class does it copy
> > that variable or is it just a reference/pointer? ?I was under the
> > impression that it was just a pointer to the data.
>
> Python's calling model is the same whether you pass to a class
> constructor or any other function or method:
>
> x = ["some", "data"]
> obj = f(x)
>
> The function f (which might be a class constructor) sees the exact same
> list as you assigned to x -- the list is not copied first. However,
> there's no promise made about what f does with that list -- it might copy
> the list, or make one or more additional lists:
>
> def f(a_list):
> ? ? another_copy = a_list[:]
> ? ? another_list = map(int, a_list)
>
> > 2. ? ?When do I need
> > to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when can I trust Python to
> > take care of it?
>
> You never need to manually allocate memory.
>
> You *may* need to deallocate memory if you make "reference loops", where
> one object refers to itself:
>
> l = [] ?# make an empty list
> l.append(l) ?# add the list l to itself
>
> Python can break such simple reference loops itself, but for more
> complicated ones, you may need to break them yourself:
>
> a = []
> b = {2: a}
> c = (None, b)
> d = [1, 'z', c]
> a.append(d) ?# a reference loop
>
> Python will deallocate objects when they are no longer in use. They are
> always considered in use any time you have them assigned to a name, or in
> a list or dict or other structure which is in use.
>
> You can explicitly remove a name with the del command. For example:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> del x
>
> After deleting the name x, the list object itself is no longer in use
> anywhere and Python will deallocate it. But consider:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> y = x ?# y now refers to THE SAME list object
> del x
>
> Although you have deleted the name x, the list object is still bound to
> the name y, and so Python will *not* deallocate the list.
>
> Likewise:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> y = [None, 1, x, 'hello world']
> del x
>
> Although now the list isn't bound to a name, it is inside another list,
> and so Python will not deallocate it.
>
> > 3. ? ?Any good practice suggestions?
>
> Write small functions. Any temporary objects created by the function will
> be automatically deallocated when the function returns.
>
> Avoid global variables. They are a good way to inadvertently end up with
> multiple long-lasting copies of data.
>
> Try to keep data in one big piece rather than lots of little pieces.
>
> But contradicting the above, if the one big piece is too big, it will be
> hard for the operating system to swap it in and out of virtual memory,
> causing thrashing, which is *really* slow. So aim for big, but not huge.
>
> (By "big" I mean megabyte-sized; by "huge" I mean hundreds of megabytes.)
>
> If possible, avoid reading the entire file in at once, and instead
> process it line-by-line.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --
> Steven

Wow, what a great bunch of responses.  Thank you very much.  If I
understand correctly the suggestions seem to be:
1.    Write algorithms to read a file one line at a time instead of
reading the whole thing
2.    Use lots of little functions so that memory can fall out of
scope.

You also confirmed what I thought was true that all variables are
passed "by reference" so I don't need to worry about the data being
copied (unless I do that explicitly).

Thanks!
Jeremy


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Feb 12 09:54:27 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:54:27 -0600
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl3o4v$spg$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2418.1265942230.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl2n4q$h4e$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.2426.1265976954.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl3o4v$spg$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B756BA3.3090408@tim.thechases.com>

Aahz wrote:
>>> Not quite.  One critical difference between dbm and dicts
>>> is the need to remember to "save" changes by setting the
>>> key's valud again.
>> 
>> Could you give an example of this?  I'm not sure I
>> understand what you're saying.
> 
> Well, you're more likely to hit this by wrapping dbm with shelve (because
> it's a little more obvious when you're using pickle directly), but
> consider this:
> 
>     d = anydbm.open(DB_NAME, "c")
>     x = MyClass()
>     d['foo'] = x
>     x.bar = 123
> 
> Your dbm does NOT have the change to x.bar recorded, you must do this
> again:
> 
>     d['foo'] = x
> 
> With a dict, you have Python's reference semantics.

Ah, that makes sense...fallout of the "dbm only does string 
keys/values".  It try to adhere to the "only use strings", so I'm 
more cognizant of when I martial complex data-types in or out of 
those strings.  But I can see where it could bite a person.

Thanks,

-tkc






From edreamleo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 10:09:47 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:09:47 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7 rc1 released
Message-ID: <8pran590ve55gaasfur10pv4jbcuvvr6pi@4ax.com>

Leo 4.7 release candidate 1 is now available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106

Leo 4.7 rc 1 fixes all known serious bugs in Leo; minor nits remain.

Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more.
See: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

The highlights of Leo 4.7:
--------------------------

- Leo now uses the simplest possible internal data model.
  This is the so-called "one-node" world.
- Leo supports Python 3.x.
- Leo requires Python 2.6 or above.
- Several important improvements in file handling.
    - Leo converts @file nodes to @thin nodes automatically.
    - Leo creates a 'Recovered Nodes' node to hold data that
      otherwise might be lost due to clone conflicts.
    - @auto-rst now works much more reliably reliably.
    - Leo no longer supports @noref trees.  Such trees are not
      reliable in cooperative environments.
- A new Windows installer.
- Many other features, including new command line options and new
plugins.
- Dozens of bug fixes.

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Forum:    http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
Bzr:      http://code.launchpad.net/leo-editor/
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html

Edward K. Ream
February 12, 2010


From bob.martin at excite.com  Fri Feb 12 10:13:07 2010
From: bob.martin at excite.com (Bob Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:13:07 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.2425.1265970808.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7eedn.39244$Ym4.2333@text.news.virginmedia.com>

in 144460 20100212 103319 Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
>Bob Martin wrote:
>> in 144446 20100212 034121 Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
>>> That was almost at the end of the war though.
>>>
>>
>> Colossus was working by the end of 1943 - the year that the Americans first dropped
>> bombs on Germany   ;-)
>>
>sept 1939 - sept 1945. It's nearer from the end, than from the begining.

If I must spell it out  ;-)
Near the end for us Brits but the Americans were only just getting into the action
in Europe.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 12 10:39:37 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:39:37 +0000
Subject: ANN: obfuscate
In-Reply-To: <7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <00fa27a3$0$15628$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<fbe2e2101002090737r87eb0cfmb1fc9112f2f35a62@mail.gmail.com>	<hks2hl$hc2$1@ger.gmane.org>	<8c7f10c61002091410o10fe04d8r4a8c544605af64ae@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2254.1265755379.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkspr9$3d5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B71EF50.7050801@gmail.com>	<mailman.2267.1265763832.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7thr3kFeqlU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4B73D1E8.9040603@cheimes.de>	<mailman.2393.1265914399.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7xy6iz86ji.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hl3snh$i1v$1@ger.gmane.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>> The predecessor of the Enigma was cracked by Polish scientists years
>>> before WW2 started....
>> I believe that all of Enigma was eventually cracked cos of two major
>> flaws.
> 
> I think it never would have been cracked if it hadn't been cracked
> (whether by the Brits or the Poles) before the war started, using
> commercial versions of the Enigma that they had access to.  The military
> Enigma and its operating methods got more sophisticated as the war went
> on, and the cryptanalysts were able to keep up with it by incrementally
> improving techniques that they were already using at scale.  If they
> were suddenly confronted with the full-blown military system in the
> middle of the war, it would have been a lot harder to do anything about
> it.  At least, most of the Enigma-related books I've read give that
> impression and even come out and say such things.
I completely agree.
> 
>> Further, the far more powerful Geheimscreiber was also cracked at
>> Bletchley by using Colossus.  Sorry some years since I read the book
>> about this so can't remember the title or author.
> 
> See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer
> That was almost at the end of the war though.  



From macmanes at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 11:06:41 2010
From: macmanes at gmail.com (PeroMHC)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:06:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: concatenate fasta file
Message-ID: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hi All, I have  a simple problem that I hope somebody can help with. I
have an input file (a fasta file) that I need to edit..

Input file format

>name 1
tactcatacatac
>name 2
acggtggcat
>name 3
gggtaccacgtt

I need to concatenate the sequences.. make them look like

>concatenated
tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt

thanks. Matt


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 12 11:08:34 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:08:34 -0500
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
In-Reply-To: <qotr5oqssfv.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>	<qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>	<mailman.2409.1265928746.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotr5oqssfv.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <hl3udv$l95$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/12/2010 4:40 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Terry Reedy writes:
>> On 2/11/2010 11:23 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>>> Robert Kern writes:
>>>> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>>>> There is a little issue here that '>>>   -.1 ** .1' should give you
>>>>> error message. That is it.
>>>>
>>>> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
>>>> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
>>>> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time.
>>
>> You forgot the smiley ;-).
>>
>>   >  The error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).
>>
>> The compiler would never see the difference between -.1 ** .1 and the
>> first and probably no difference with the second either.
>
> It could be done the same way that the compiler keeps track of the
> source line numbers now: early phases annotate their output with any
> information that later phases may need. This error would be detected
> during syntactic analysis.

There is no error to detect. Sorry, read the manual and either learn or 
lookup precedence rules (there is a table in the end of the Expressions 
chapter) or use parentheses when not sure.




From roy at panix.com  Fri Feb 12 11:23:54 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:23:54 -0500
Subject: concatenate fasta file
References: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-83F0AE.11235412022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article 
<62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8 at b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
 PeroMHC <macmanes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All, I have  a simple problem that I hope somebody can help with. I
> have an input file (a fasta file) that I need to edit..
> 
> Input file format
> 
> >name 1
> tactcatacatac
> >name 2
> acggtggcat
> >name 3
> gggtaccacgtt
> 
> I need to concatenate the sequences.. make them look like
> 
> >concatenated
> tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt
> 
> thanks. Matt

Some quick ideas.  First, try something along the lines of (not tested):

data=[]
for line in sys.stdin:
   if line.startswith('>'):
      continue
   data.append(line.strip())
print ''.join(data)

Second, check out http://biopython.org/wiki/Main_Page.  I'm sure somebody 
has solved this problem before.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 12 11:49:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:49:15 +0100
Subject: concatenate fasta file
In-Reply-To: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B75868B.2030807@sequans.com>

PeroMHC wrote:
> Hi All, I have  a simple problem that I hope somebody can help with. I
> have an input file (a fasta file) that I need to edit..
>
> Input file format
>
>   
>> name 1
>>     
> tactcatacatac
>   
>> name 2
>>     
> acggtggcat
>   
>> name 3
>>     
> gggtaccacgtt
>
> I need to concatenate the sequences.. make them look like
>
>   
>> concatenated
>>     
> tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt
>
> thanks. Matt
>   
A solution using regexp:

found = []
for line in open('seqfile.txt'):
    found += re.findall('^[acgtACGT]+$', line)

print found
 > ['tactcatacatac', 'acggtggcat', 'gggtaccacgtt']

print ''.join(found)
 > 'tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt'


JM


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 12 12:05:37 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:05:37 +0000
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
In-Reply-To: <4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
	<4B75622F.8040303@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <4B758A61.4090606@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>> .... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
>> .... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
>> .... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
>> .... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
>> .... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is
>> .... considered a binary file. [ ... ]
> 
> That's a butt ugly heuristic that will lead to lots of false positives
> if your text happens to be UTF-16 encoded or non-english text UTF-8 encoded.
> 
...or non-English Latin-1 text...


From jcquevedo84 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:08:59 2010
From: jcquevedo84 at gmail.com (Juan Carlos Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:08:59 -0400
Subject: Configuring apache to execute python scripts using mod_python handler
Message-ID: <f598914f1002120908h5f179774g6327ad0860166640@mail.gmail.com>

I configured apache to execute python scripts using mod_python
handler. I followed below mentioned steps to configure apache.

1. In http.conf I added

  <Directory "D:/softwares/Apache2.2/htdocs">
  AddHandler mod_python .py
  PythonHandler mptest
  PythonDebug On
  </Directory>

2. Then I added the line "LoadModule python_module modules/
mod_python.so" to http.conf.

Then I tried execute the python script mentioned below from browser.

from mod_python import apache
def handler(req):
req.content_type = 'text/plain'
req.write("Hello World!")
return apache.OK

Then I am getting the following error

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "D:\softwares\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python
\importer.py", line 1537, in HandlerDispatch
    default=default_handler, arg=req, silent=hlist.silent)

  File "D:\softwares\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python
\importer.py", line 1202, in _process_target
    module = import_module(module_name, path=path)

  File "D:\softwares\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python
\importer.py", line 304, in import_module
    return __import__(module_name, {}, {}, ['*'])

ImportError: No module named mptest

I am using Apache 2.2.4, python 2.5 and mod_python-3.3.1.win32-py2.5-
Apache2.2.

I am able to execute python scripts by configuring apache to execute
the cgi scripts. But I want to execute it using mod_python as it is
faster compared to cgi mode. Someone please help me on this issue.
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From simon.hibbs at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:11:38 2010
From: simon.hibbs at gmail.com (Simon Hibbs)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:11:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Generic spreadsheet interface
References: <3acdf3a7-e2eb-4a9a-bc89-7e285073a9c9@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <34982944-fa6a-45e9-86a1-4b09a5a39d6e@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>


Hi Bro, I don't know of anything like that. The spreadsheet sites I do
know of are application-specific.

http://www.python-excel.org/

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Python
http://lucasmanual.com/mywiki/OpenOffice

Note that the OO.o bindings for Python are only for Python 2.3 which
is a little archaic, but it's the version I started with and should be
more than good enough for spreadsheet work. A port to 2.5 is well
underway.

You'd probably need to write your own application-specific wrapper
modules with a common API and then use those, but it's probably not as
much work as it sounds and could be developed incrementaly.
Alternatively you just write your code against one spreadsheet module,
and then write a wrapper module for the other spreadsheet API  so it
looks the same.

Simon Hibbs


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 12 12:14:26 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:14:26 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <c03edfbb-7dbd-443e-869e-882a2c89af52@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2429.1265979984.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c03edfbb-7dbd-443e-869e-882a2c89af52@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B758C72.7020901@ieee.org>

hjebbers wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2:06 pm, Dave Angel <da... at ieee.org> wrote:
>   
>> hjebbers wrote:
>>     
>>> On Feb 12, 3:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>>       
>>>> In article <34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f3... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>         
>>>> hjebbers  <hjebb... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> the error is a windows thing, I can make a screenshot of it, but I can
>>>>> not copy/paste text.
>>>>>           
>>>> In that case, you need to -- very carefully -- make sure you transcribe
>>>> exactly the message that you see on the screen.
>>>> --
>>>> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com)           <*>        http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>>>>         
>>>> "At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
>>>> refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"
>>>>         
>>> The message on the screen is (I typed it over):
>>>       
>>> <snip>
>>>       
>> You shouldn't ever have to retype the message.  Just paste from the DOS
>> box (or "Command Prompt").  It's easy using QuickEdit mode.
>>
>> You select a rectangle of the text by selecting with the mouse, then
>> using right-click to put it in the clipboard.
>>
>> If that doesn't work, you haven't yet enabled QuickEdit mode.  Use
>> right-click on the DOS box's title bar.  Choose Properties.  Select the
>> first tab, which is Options.
>>
>> You should then see a selection box called "Quick Edit Mode".  Turn it
>> on, and you won't have this problem again.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> thanks.
> but the message is not in the DOS box (or "Command Prompt").
> I do run the program in a DOS box (or "Command Prompt"), but the error
> is a windows dialog box.
> I can not select in this dialog box.
>
> kind regards,
> henk-jan
>
>   
Whoops!   I agree those dialog boxes that don't support select/copy are 
a pain.   Sorry my response wasn't applicable.

DaveA


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 12 12:14:57 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 GMT
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:45:31 -0800, Jeremy wrote:

> You also confirmed what I thought was true that all variables are passed
> "by reference" so I don't need to worry about the data being copied
> (unless I do that explicitly).

No, but yes.

No, variables are not passed by reference, but yes, you don't have to 
worry about them being copied. 

You have probably been mislead into thinking that there are only two 
calling conventions possible, "pass by value" and "pass by reference". 
That is incorrect. There are many different calling conventions, and 
different groups use the same names to mean radically different things.

If a language passes variables by reference, you can write a "swap" 
function like this:

def swap(a, b):
    a, b = b, a

x = 1
y = 2
swap(x, y)
assert (x == 2) and (y==1)

But this does not work in Python, and cannot work without trickery. So 
Python absolutely is not "pass by reference".

On the other hand, if a variable is passed by value, then a copy is made 
and you can do this:

def append1(alist):
    alist.append(1)  # modify the copy
    return alist

x = []
newlist = append1(x)
assert x == []  # The old value still exists.

But this also doesn't work in Python! So Python isn't "pass by value" 
either.

What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by 
object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java 
do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference" 
and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the 
maximum amount of confusion possible.


More here:
    http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy




-- 
Steven


From torriem at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:18:23 2010
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:18:23 -0700
Subject: looking for some libraries
In-Reply-To: <9cb81f4e-e7cd-4b5d-992e-2e31f786a1da@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <6f94f534-ed05-4b45-aa38-c05060eb7f4b@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<9cb81f4e-e7cd-4b5d-992e-2e31f786a1da@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B758D5F.6000907@gmail.com>

rantingrick wrote:
> Well a GUI kit comes to mind. And since you did not mention a
> preference (or much really) i would suggest Tkinter in the stdlib as a
> starting point. Here is a big hint!

I think the original poster is looking for a way to automate an existing
GUI process, and screen-scrape the resulting output from this existing GUI.

He does not say what OS he is working on, so it's hard to really suggest
anything.  If he's on Windows, I'd give a look at AutoIt[1], which has
its own complete programming language.  I know with AutoIt I could click
on buttons and then scrape text from an edit box.  AutoIt probably has
the ability to write this data out to a file as well.  Not Python, but hey.

[1] http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.shtml


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 12 12:20:06 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 17:20:06 GMT
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2437.1265984074.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <038579d7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:14:07 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:

> Lloyd Zusman wrote:
>> .... The -T  and -B  switches work as follows. The first block or so
>> .... of the file is examined for odd characters such as strange control
>> .... codes or characters with the high bit set. If too many strange
>> .... characters (>30%) are found, it's a -B file; otherwise it's a -T
>> .... file. Also, any file containing null in the first block is ....
>> considered a binary file. [ ... ]
> 
> That's a butt ugly heuristic that will lead to lots of false positives
> if your text happens to be UTF-16 encoded or non-english text UTF-8
> encoded.

And a hell of a lot of false negatives if the file is binary.

The way I've always seen it, a file is binary if it contains a single 
binary character *anywhere* in the file.


-- 
Steven


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:21:07 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 3:17?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 7:01 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> >> hjebbers wrote:
> >> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets say
> >> >> DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more info?
>
> >> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that now.
> >> > I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup gives a
> >> > CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> >> > (where is the bug?)
>
> >> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> >> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and then...
>
> > if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
> > bugreport?
>
> A this stage a bug report would be useless. The details you have provided so
> far don't give anyone without physical access to your machine a chance to
> reproduce the error.
>
> > (because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
> > doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)
>
> Indeed. The culprit may be an extension written in C that is overwriting
> memory still in use by other parts of your program.
>
> Peter

No C extensions used. Definitely not.

As these crashes occur during stress tests, I go to the limits of the
memory available.
What strikes me is:
1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
much).

kind regards, Henk-jan


From jcquevedo84 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:34:33 2010
From: jcquevedo84 at gmail.com (Juan Carlos Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:34:33 -0400
Subject: Helpp I want view page .py on apache WHAT CAN I DO???????????????
Message-ID: <f598914f1002120934u756ccadfm817da4a43e341154@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I am trying implement a text from mod_python.

I have a apahce service 2.2.4, python 2.5 and  mod_python  3.3.1

I have this mistake:

MOD_PYTHON ERROR

ProcessId:      5956
Interpreter:    '192.168.5.32'

ServerName:     '192.168.5.32'
DocumentRoot:   'D:/aplicaciones/web'

URI:            '/python/index.py'
Location:       None
Directory:      'D:/aplicaciones/web/python/'
Filename:       'D:/aplicaciones/web/python/index.py'
PathInfo:       ''

Phase:          'PythonHandler'
Handler:        'mptest'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
1537, in HandlerDispatch
    default=default_handler, arg=req, silent=hlist.silent)

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
1202, in _process_target
    module = import_module(module_name, path=path)

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
304, in import_module
    return __import__(module_name, {}, {}, ['*'])

ImportError: No module named mptest

*WHAT CAN I DO?*
-------------- next part --------------
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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20100212/cdc9335b/attachment-0001.html>

From chyavana at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:45:35 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:45:35 +0800
Subject: Sorting a list of lists
Message-ID: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>

Dear Folks,

I have lines of values like so:

14, [25, 105, 104]
10, [107, 106, 162]
21, [26, 116, 165]

I need to sort them in two ways:

(a) By the numeric value of the first column; and

(b) by the sum of the elements of the second item in each list, which is 
a list in itself.

At present, I have appended each line into a list L so that I for teh 
above minimal data, I have a list of lists thus:

[[14, [25, 105, 104]], [10, [107, 106, 162]], [21, [26, 116, 165]]]

I have tried using

(a) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(x[0]))

and

(b) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(sum(x[1])))

and get the anticipated results for (a) and (b0, at least with the above 
minimal data set.

Is this a sensible way to go about the sorting, or are there better ways 
of doing it in Python?

Also, I am baffled because the above fails obviously when len(L) is 
about a hundred and I can't figure out why.

TIA

Chandra


From jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi  Fri Feb 12 12:48:33 2010
From: jpiitula at ling.helsinki.fi (Jussi Piitulainen)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 19:48:33 +0200
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <1265849053.24800.38.camel@localhost>
	<d4ab53de1002110431v5d05c8b0m7e0c2e6e78458008@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2374.1265903767.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotvde3eo6t.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
	<mailman.2409.1265928746.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<qotr5oqssfv.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>
	<mailman.2449.1265990936.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qotvde25or2.fsf@ruuvi.it.helsinki.fi>

Terry Reedy writes:
> On 2/12/2010 4:40 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> > Terry Reedy writes:
> >> On 2/11/2010 11:23 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> >>> Robert Kern writes:
> >>>> On 2010-02-11 06:31 AM, Shashwat Anand wrote:
> >>>>> There is a little issue here that '>>>   -.1 ** .1' should give you
> >>>>> error message. That is it.
> >>>>
> >>>> No, fractional powers of negative numbers are perfectly valid
> >>>> mathematically. The result is a complex number. In Python 3 (what
> >>>> the OP is using), this has been implemented, but not in Python 2.6.
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps it should raise a MisleadingSpacingError at compile time.
> >>
> >> You forgot the smiley ;-).
> >>
> >>   >  The error message could recommend - .1**.1, or better -(.1 ** .1).
> >>
> >> The compiler would never see the difference between -.1 ** .1 and the
> >> first and probably no difference with the second either.
> >
> > It could be done the same way that the compiler keeps track of the
> > source line numbers now: early phases annotate their output with any
> > information that later phases may need. This error would be detected
> > during syntactic analysis.
> 
> There is no error to detect. Sorry, read the manual and either learn
> or lookup precedence rules (there is a table in the end of the
> Expressions chapter) or use parentheses when not sure.

Thanks.


From cgoldberg at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 13:18:27 2010
From: cgoldberg at gmail.com (corey goldberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:18:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PExpect Cross-Platform Alternative
References: <348a45771002111147q534fba67m831fbf3961ea55d2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2400.1265918396.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <31a6439e-3832-48c8-b956-3b421b6f5e12@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

> > I was just tasked to get
> > these scripts running in a windows environment and to my dismay very
> > quickly realized that pexpect is not cross platform compatible.
> > Am I stuck, or are there solutions out there?


I haven't tried it, but here is another Python implementation of
Expect that claims to run on Windows also:

http://code.google.com/p/python-expect/

-Corey



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 12 13:24:17 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:24:17 +0000
Subject: Sorting a list of lists
In-Reply-To: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>
References: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B759CD1.4040402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
> 
> I have lines of values like so:
> 
> 14, [25, 105, 104]
> 10, [107, 106, 162]
> 21, [26, 116, 165]
> 
> I need to sort them in two ways:
> 
> (a) By the numeric value of the first column; and
> 
> (b) by the sum of the elements of the second item in each list, which is 
> a list in itself.
> 
> At present, I have appended each line into a list L so that I for teh 
> above minimal data, I have a list of lists thus:
> 
> [[14, [25, 105, 104]], [10, [107, 106, 162]], [21, [26, 116, 165]]]
> 
> I have tried using
> 
> (a) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(x[0]))
> 
> and
> 
> (b) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(sum(x[1])))
> 
> and get the anticipated results for (a) and (b0, at least with the above 
> minimal data set.
> 
> Is this a sensible way to go about the sorting, or are there better ways 
> of doing it in Python?
> 
It's the obvious way to do it.

> Also, I am baffled because the above fails obviously when len(L) is 
> about a hundred and I can't figure out why.
> 
You'd have to post an example of that, but you could try deleting some
of the entries before sorting so see whether you can still reproduce the
problem with a smaller list.


From sparks.m at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 13:32:23 2010
From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:32:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi Alf,


Before I start, note we're talking about semantics, not
implementation. That distinction is very important.

On Feb 11, 4:49 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> > *The* standard general language independent definition?

[ of pointer ]

> Yes.
>
> > As defined where?
>
> For example, as I used as reference in my first posting, the Java language spec.
>   But it has nothing specifically to do with Java. It is a basic concept in
> computer science, that (most) CS students learn in their *first year*.
>
> E.g.
>
> <quote src="http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/106/">
> A pointer stores a reference to something. Unfortunately there is no fixed term
> for the thing that the pointer points to, and across different computer
> languages there is a wide variety of things that pointers point to. We use the
> term pointee for the thing that the pointer points to, and we stick to the basic
> properties of the pointer/pointee relationship which are true in all languages.
> The term "reference" means pretty much the same thing as "pointer" --
> "reference" implies a more high-level discussion, while "pointer" implies the
> traditional compiled language implementation of pointers as addresses. For the
> basic pointer/pointee rules covered here, the terms are effectively equivalent.
> </quote>

This is where you have gone wrong. You have taken a first year
undergraduate
academic generalisation and assumed that it applies to The World. In
theory,
there is no difference between practice and theory, but in practice
there is
(so the saying goes).

The World however has another place for defining terms. That place is
of highly
varying quality, but generally a better place to correct semantics of
terms.
Who knows, eventually there may be a single commonly accepted
viewpoint. (Which
would bring a whole new level of pedantry of course )-:

I am referring to Wikipedia here. (this is a vague attempt at humour,
rather
than an attempt to patronise which it may also come over as)

Let's look at the tip of the iceberg for that:

   "In computer science, a pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to (or "points to") another value
stored
    elsewhere in the computer memory using its address."

           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_%28computing%29

Similarly for Call by Value: (which *is* a loaded term)

    In call-by-value, the argument expression is evaluated, and the
    resulting value is bound to the corresponding variable in the
    function (frequently by copying the value into a new memory
region).
    If the function or procedure is able to assign values to its
    parameters, only its local copy is assigned ? that is, anything
    passed into a function call is unchanged in the caller's scope
    when the function returns.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_value

Call by Reference: (again, loaded term):

   In call-by-reference evaluation (also referred to as pass-by-
reference),
   a function receives an implicit reference to the argument, rather
than
   a copy of its value. This typically means that the function can
modify
   the argument- something that will be seen by its caller.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_reference

Call by Sharing: (far less common term)
   Also known as "call by object" or "call by object-sharing" is an
   evaluation strategy first named by Barbara Liskov et al. for the
   language CLU in 1974[1]. It is used by languages such as Python[2],
   Iota, Java (for object references)[3], Ruby, Scheme, OCaml,
   AppleScript, and many other languages.

   The semantics of call-by-sharing differ from call-by-reference in
   that assignments to function arguments within the function aren't
   visible to the caller (unlike by-reference semantics).

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_sharing

As you can see, there are generally accepted terms and definitions
here,
and python is accepted as falling not into the value or reference
camp,
along with some other languages.

Understanding why IMO comes back to some basic aspects of python which
I believe trip up experienced developers. This claim is based on
talking
to someone experienced in coding for a couple of decades, who has done
a
CS degree (like me), and just didn't understand why I would use
python.

I spent an couple of _days_ explaining this, along with python's
evaluation
model, and at the end we ended up where we started:

   * Python is a language which is focussed on programmer performance,
     not machine performance, because relative to programmer cost,
     machines are cheap. Therefore you focus your language to optimise
     for the programmer, not the machine.

In this case, let's drop back to the word "pointer" which I can
understand
that you like. Indeed, it took me a fair while to let go of the word
when
talking about python, but you do have to.

Why?

Well, assume this definition isn't bad:

   "In computer science, a pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to (or "points to") another value
stored
    elsewhere in the computer memory using its address."

OK, let's assume that we can generalise this to ignore the address
bit,
like so:

   "In computer science, a pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to (or "points to") another value
stored
    elsewhere in the computer memory"

That's still not valid for python - why? Let's keep trimming it back:

   "A pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to another value"

Seems OK. But not valid for python. Why? Let's keep going.

   "A pointer is a data type whose value"

Ah, maybe that is the reason.

Let's look at the canonical kind of way of describing what's happening
here:

>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>> def hello(world):
...    print world
...
>>> hello(x)
[1, 2, 3]

This is actually alot more complicated to explain than it might
seem if someone starts thinking "what's going on underneath".
Let's take the description you'd give to a beginner first. (OK,
depends
on beginner)

Beginner description
--------------------
A list object is created and initialised containing 3 integers -1,2 &
3.
The name x is bound to this list object.

Next a function - hello - is defined which takes one argument. When
called, the name world is bound to the object passed in. The function
body then runs and the object bound to world is used by print to print
whatever str(world) returns.

The function hello is then called with the value bound to the name x.

OK, that seems pretty simple and clear. Little odd in the terminology
perhaps, but it's clear. We deal with names and objects.

The less beginner explanation
-----------------------------
>>> x = [1,2,3]

3 anonymous integer objects are created with the values 1,2 and 3.

These are bound inside a sequence which when iterated over yields
the 3 integer objects.

list is then called with this sequence object (of whatever kind it
is under the hood). A list object is then created such that:
    x[0] appears bound to the integer object 1
    x[1] appears bound to the integer object 2
    x[2] appears bound to the integer object 3

Note I do NOT say that x[0] contains a reference to object 1,
because in languages that contain references you would:
   a) have access to the reference
   b) have a means of dereferencing the reference
   c) Have to dereference the reference in order to obtain the
      value.

This is because a reference is a form of l-value and r-value. It
is a value in itself, and  refers to a value. Python does not have
such a beast. (The closest you can get is a class property, but I
digress)

In python, the language, we do not have a) or b) nor have to
do c). (indeed cannot do "c")

Why do I say "appears bound" ?

Because x[0] is syntactic sugar to a function call - x.__getitem__(0)

So...

This results in a list object being created allowing access to 3
integer
objects. The name "x" is bound to this list object.

>>> def hello(world):
...    print world
...

This statement (not definition) creates a function object which
accepts one argument which will be and object labelled "world"
inside the scope of the function. The resulting function object
is bound to the name "hello" in the same scope as "x".

The resulting function object also has a bunch of other attributes,
which I won't go into.

>>> hello(x)
[1, 2, 3]

This is quite complex if you go down this layer. hello is a
name bound to the function object we created earlier.

Python effectivelly does this:
>>> getattr(hello, "__call__")

And uses that as the method to call with the arguments provided.

Specifically, the object that x is bound to is passed as the sole
argument to the __call__ method (wrapper) that getattr(hello,
"__call__")
returned.

The object, not a reference.
The object, not a pointer.

This is because python's semantics are designed for humans not
machines.

When applying the object we humans call x to the function
object we humans call hello
...
    >>> def hello(world):
    ...    print world

...inside the scope of the function object, the name world
is bound to the object that the calling scope calls x.

This may be *implemented* in one runtime using references
in one language.
It may be *implemented* in another runtime using pointers
in another.

In PyPy the implementation will be to pass the object by
sharing. (I suspect, I've not looked at PyPy's internal's
but that's what I'd expect)

Anyhow, by hook or by crook, inside hello, the name world
is now bound to our previously created list object, which
itself has made it such that we can retrieve the 3 integers
we asked it to.

The print statement evaluates str(world), which evaluates
world.__str__(), and passes the resulting string object to
the subsystem that actually spits characters out of stdout.

That's a significantly more complicated explanation, but
still does not need or use the terms pointers or references.
The object itself is passed as the argument. The fact that
an object may have many names is by the by.

Now, you may be asking yourself (indeed I'm certain you may be)
"But how is that any difference, really, from pointers and
references".

Indeed it will seem odd to hear clearly well educated people
arguing against you saying "no, they're not pointers or
references".

It seems odd, primarily because in languages where you have
pointers and references, pointers and references are in
themselves values.

Specifically, in such languages you start talking about
l-values and r-values. An r-value is a value that may be
assigned to an l-value. An l-value essentially thus denotes
storage - a destination for an r-value.

An l-values is a machine oriented concept.
A name is a human oriented concept.

Python doesn't have l-values. It has names, and r-values.
A name is just a name, and has no value. When the name is
used syntactically, the value (object) it is bound to is
used in its place.

Thus using your example "demonstrating" that references
exist in python is something you're not yourself
understanding correctly.

Rather than thinking of names as boxes which can contain
values, think of them as labels (post it notes) that can
be stuck onto values/objects. If you do this, it will
simplify your thinking.

This was your wording:
   s = ["A"]
   t = s             # Copies the reference.
   t[0] = "B"        # Changes the referenced object via the reference
copy.
   print( s )        # Inspects object (now changed) via original
reference.

This is mine:
   s = ["A"]

A list object is created such that the string object
"A" can be retrieved from it. The label "s" is stuck
on the object.

   t = s

Sticks the label "t" onto the object as well.

   t[0] = "B"

Applies the __setitem__ method of the list object we've
created with the integer object 0 and string object "B".
(What this does is anyone's guess really, someone could
have changed the implementation of list before these 4
lines were executed)

   print( s )

print takes the list object which s is stuck onto. It
then calls the __str__ method of the list object passed
it, gets back a string object and spits that out stdout.

Whether we chose to use the label s or t is irrelevant,
the object _itself_ is passed in. (in terms of semantics)

Again, note, we're talking about semantics, not implementation.
That distinction is very important.

Once again, you might say, "but my explanation works well
with references and pointers", and yes in terms of
implementation, those things will exist. But if you
confuse the implementation as the semantics, you run
into problems.

For example, going back to your (incorrect) explanation:
   s = ["A"]
   t = s             # Copies the reference.
   t[0] = "B"        # Changes the referenced object via the reference
copy.
   print( s )        # Inspects object (now changed) via original
reference.

If t or s are references or pointers, I should be able
to deal with the reference or pointer itself as a value.

After all accepted definitions of pointer boil down to:

   "A pointer is a programming language data type
    whose value refers directly to another value"

And similarly for references:

    "Generally, a reference is a value that enables a
     program to directly access the particular data item."
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference#Computer_science

ie both pointers and references are themselves values that
enable access to the value AND are NOT in themselves the
value they point/refer to.

In python, if I do this:

      def hello(world):
         print world

      X = [1,2,3]
      hello(X)

Then "X" is best described as a name bound to the object [1,2,3]

hello(X) is best described as calling the function bound to the
name "hello" with a single argument being the object that the
name "X" is bound to.

Inside hello, "world" is a name that is bound to whatever object
gets slung inside as its first argument. Not a pointer. Not a
reference. The object.

This semantics is radically different from languages like C,
Pascal, and similar.

One final approach.

Suppose I do this:

a = (1,2,3)
b = (4,5,6)
c = (7,8,9)
d = [a, b, c]

And I claim that a, b and c are references. (as per your
explanation)

This would mean that d[2] must also be the same reference as c.
(if you take d[2] to be a reference - which it isn't)

Therefore updating d[2] must update c.

That could imply that

d[2] += (10,)

Should result in c's reference referring to the value (7,8,9,10)

And with D having the value [ (1,2,3), (4,5,6), (7,8,9,10) ]

This is perfectly logical semantics if you're dealing with
references and pointers.

However, python doesn't deal with them. It deals with objects
and names. D does indeed result with that value, but c is
left unchanged.

The reason is because python only has r-values and names, and
no l-values.

d[2] += (10,)

Results in d[2] being evaluated - that is the __getitem__
method on the object d is bound to is called with the argument 2.
This returns the tuple object (7,8,9).

The __add__ method of that tuple object is then called, with the
argument (10,)
This returns a new tuple object (7,8,9,10)

Finalled the __setitem__ method of the object d is bound
to is called with the argument 2 and the freshly minted
tuple object (7,8,9,10).

This results in c being left unchanged. This results in D
having the correct value.

If we were dealing with references and pointers it would be
perfectly acceptable for c to be modified. In python, the
label "c" cannot be tacked onto the returned value.

Crucially, a pointer can be a pointer to a pointer, and you
can have references to references (which allows you to
dereference the pointer/reference and change the pointer/
reference).

You can't do this in python names directly. (You can come
close using properties, and by messing around in globals
and locals, but that's getting quite nasty, and not really
the same semantics.)

Anyway, I hope you've not found that patronising or ad-hominem.
If you've found my explanation overly simplistic or using too
simple phrasing, please excuse that - it's a style of writing
I've picked up on a writing course once.

In summary, if you claim that there's references or pointers
here...
   s = ["A"]
   t = s             # Copies the reference.
   t[0] = "B"        # Changes the referenced object via the reference
copy.
   print( s )        # Inspects object (now changed) via original
reference.

... since references and pointers are values themselves, not
the values they refer to, how can I store a reference to a
reference? That is update the value of s from a function?

Specifically, if python has pointers or references, this should
be doable:

   s = 1        # Claim is that s is a reference to 1
   update(s, 2) # Update the reference s to point at the value 2

How do I write the function "update" used above in pure python.
(without messing with globals(), locals(), or diving into any
other language implementation specific concepts)

After all, I can write that in any other language that has pointers &
references.

Finally, note, we're talking about semantics, not implementation.
That distinction is very important.

If this seems odd, the reason is because python's semantics are
very much more like those of a functional language when it comes
to function calls, than it is to standard imperative languages.

Python's functions are all impure however, and side effects are
common, due to objects not (all) being immutable. Your experience
here is leading you to the wrong conclusions and incorrect reasoning.

Regards,


Michael
--
http://www.kamaelia.org/


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 12 13:32:49 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:32:49 -0500
Subject: Sorting a list of lists
In-Reply-To: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>
References: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B759ED1.3090507@optimum.net>

On 2/12/2010 12:45 PM, R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> I have lines of values like so:
>
> 14, [25, 105, 104]
> 10, [107, 106, 162]
> 21, [26, 116, 165]
>
> I need to sort them in two ways:
>
> (a) By the numeric value of the first column; and
>
> (b) by the sum of the elements of the second item in each list, which is
> a list in itself.
>
> At present, I have appended each line into a list L so that I for teh
> above minimal data, I have a list of lists thus:
>
> [[14, [25, 105, 104]], [10, [107, 106, 162]], [21, [26, 116, 165]]]
>
> I have tried using
>
> (a) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(x[0]))

Just plain "sorted(L)" will work, because Python knows how to compare 
your [N, [N,N,N]]-format values:

 >>> [14, [25, 105, 104]] < (14, [25, 105, 103]]
False
 >>> [14, [25, 105, 104]] < (14, [25, 105, 105]]
True
 >>>

>
> and
>
> (b) sorted(L, key = lambda x:(sum(x[1])))

That looks good.

>
> and get the anticipated results for (a) and (b0, at least with the above
> minimal data set.
>
> Is this a sensible way to go about the sorting, or are there better ways
> of doing it in Python?

You're doing fine.

>
> Also, I am baffled because the above fails obviously when len(L) is
> about a hundred and I can't figure out why.

Please cut-and-paste the exact error message (or other evidence of 
"failure") into a message.


Tx,
John


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 12 13:45:46 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:45:46 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>

On 2/12/2010 12:14 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 06:45:31 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
>
>> You also confirmed what I thought was true that all variables are passed
>> "by reference" so I don't need to worry about the data being copied
>> (unless I do that explicitly).
>
> No, but yes.
>
> No, variables are not passed by reference, but yes, you don't have to
> worry about them being copied.
>
> You have probably been mislead into thinking that there are only two
> calling conventions possible, "pass by value" and "pass by reference".
> That is incorrect. There are many different calling conventions, and
> different groups use the same names to mean radically different things.
>
> If a language passes variables by reference, you can write a "swap"
> function like this:
>
> def swap(a, b):
>      a, b = b, a
>
> x = 1
> y = 2
> swap(x, y)
> assert (x == 2) and (y==1)
>
> But this does not work in Python, and cannot work without trickery. So
> Python absolutely is not "pass by reference".
>
> On the other hand, if a variable is passed by value, then a copy is made
> and you can do this:
>
> def append1(alist):
>      alist.append(1)  # modify the copy
>      return alist
>
> x = []
> newlist = append1(x)
> assert x == []  # The old value still exists.
>
> But this also doesn't work in Python! So Python isn't "pass by value"
> either.
>
> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
> maximum amount of confusion possible.
>
>
> More here:
>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy
>

Excellent writeup, Steve! You and Jeremy might be interested in a 
message on "pass-by-XXX" from John Zelle, the author of the textbook 
"Python Programming: An Introduction to Computer Science". [1]  This was 
part of a long thread in May 2008 on the Python edu-sig list -- nearly 
as long as "Modifying Class Object", but with nowhere near the fireworks!

Tx,
John

[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html



From senhor.abrantes at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:12:37 2010
From: senhor.abrantes at gmail.com (joao abrantes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:12:37 +0000
Subject: Pixel control
In-Reply-To: <880fa1d41002041457v44b7c4ddobe79db5fc7c9ebd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <880fa1d41002041457v44b7c4ddobe79db5fc7c9ebd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880fa1d41002121112r4e8c1550xf32cdea17a2bfeb@mail.gmail.com>

noone knows if it's possible? i really need this..

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:57 PM, joao abrantes <senhor.abrantes at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello everyone. For example i am using a screen resolution of 800x600 is it
> possible to make python control the color of the pixels? For example paint
> the pixel (100,200) in red! And it would stay red when i am seeing a
> webpage, a movie, playing a game... etc.. Regards, Jo?o Abrantes.
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From mccolgst at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:36:46 2010
From: mccolgst at gmail.com (McColgst)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:36:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: search entire drive say c:
References: <805f59d51002120417k736230d7yf5b45ee1940e63a7@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2428.1265979681.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8d585aae-2764-4d98-9027-b7d3c9f03b94@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>


> ? ?ROOT = "c:\\"
> ? ?fname = "abc.txt".lower()
> ? ?for p, d, f in os.walk(ROOT):
> ? ? ?for fn in f:
> ? ? ? ?if fn.lower() == fname:
> ? ? ? ? ?print os.path.join(p, f)
> ? ? ? ? ?# break

I think you mean

print os.path.join(p,fn)

-sean


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:39:18 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:39:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
Message-ID: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
a series of regex, which look something like this...

19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)

Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
any suggestions would be appreciated...

The file read in is an ascii file.

f = open(fname, 'r')
s = f.read()

if CANHT:
    s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
canht_ft", CANHT, s)

where CANHT might be

CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'

But this involves me passing the entire string.

Thanks.

Martin


From mccolgst at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 14:57:34 2010
From: mccolgst at gmail.com (McColgst)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:57:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 2:39?pm, Martin <mdeka... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ? ? ?! ?lai(1:npft)
>
> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> f = open(fname, 'r')
> s = f.read()
>
> if CANHT:
> ? ? s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+ ? !
> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> where CANHT might be
>
> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft'
>
> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Martin

If I understand correctly, there are a couple ways to do it.
One is to use .split() and split by the '!' sign, given that you wont
have more than one '!' on a line. This will return a list of the words
split by the delimiter, in this case being '!', so you should get back
(19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00  ,  canht_ft(1:npft) )  and you can do
whatever replace functions you want using the list.

check out split: http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.split

Another, is in your regular expression, you can match the first part
or second part of the string by specifying where the '!' is,
if you want to match the part after the '!' I would do something like
r"[^! cahnt_ft]", or something similar (i'm not particularly up-to-
date with my regex syntax, but I think you get the idea.)

I hope I understood correctly, and I hope that helps.

-sean


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:07:08 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:07:08 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>

John Posner wrote:

>>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy

> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html

Hmm how about "call by label-value"?

That is, you change labels by assignment, but pass the value of the 
label to a function. Since label value is passed, original label is not 
changed (i.e. it's not call by reference).

However, an object referenced by label value can be changed in Python, 
like in classic example of list label passed to a function and then this 
list being modified in a function.

Regards,
mk



From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 15:22:02 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:22:02 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Michael Sparks:
> Hi Alf,
> 
> 
> Before I start, note we're talking about semantics, not
> implementation. That distinction is very important.

Yes.

It would seem to readers that posters here do not grasp and are unable to grasp 
that distinction.

However, all those references to implementation aspects, persisting in the face 
of corrections, have just, IMHO, been consistent attempts at misrepresentation.


> On Feb 11, 4:49 am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>>> *The* standard general language independent definition?
> 
> [ of pointer ]
> 
>> Yes.
>>
>>> As defined where?
>> For example, as I used as reference in my first posting, the Java language spec.
>>   But it has nothing specifically to do with Java. It is a basic concept in
>> computer science, that (most) CS students learn in their *first year*.
>>
>> E.g.
>>
>> <quote src="http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/106/">
>> A pointer stores a reference to something. Unfortunately there is no fixed term
>> for the thing that the pointer points to, and across different computer
>> languages there is a wide variety of things that pointers point to. We use the
>> term pointee for the thing that the pointer points to, and we stick to the basic
>> properties of the pointer/pointee relationship which are true in all languages.
>> The term "reference" means pretty much the same thing as "pointer" --
>> "reference" implies a more high-level discussion, while "pointer" implies the
>> traditional compiled language implementation of pointers as addresses. For the
>> basic pointer/pointee rules covered here, the terms are effectively equivalent.
>> </quote>
> 
> This is where you have gone wrong. You have taken a first year
> undergraduate
> academic generalisation and assumed that it applies to The World.'

I'm sorry to disappoint, but no. It was a random Google hit to find a first-year 
text that perhaps posters here could understand. Not insinuiting anything about 
their mental prowess or lack thereof, but just something they might understand 
given a repeatedly demonstrated inability to understand such basics, or even to 
understand the concept of reference to a definition of a term.

Please do consider that my usage of the term "pointer" has always, in this 
thread, including the first article I posted in this thread, been with explicit 
reference to the Java language spec's meaning.

You may argue that those who wrote that language spec are confused about things 
or whatever, but that's rather stretching it, wouldn't you say?


> In theory, there is no difference between practice and theory, but in practice
> there is (so the saying goes).
> 
> The World however has another place for defining terms. That place is
> of highly
> varying quality, but generally a better place to correct semantics of
> terms.
> Who knows, eventually there may be a single commonly accepted
> viewpoint. (Which
> would bring a whole new level of pedantry of course )-:
> 
> I am referring to Wikipedia here. (this is a vague attempt at humour,
> rather
> than an attempt to patronise which it may also come over as)

I understand.

You may note that that Wikipedia article refers to an article that I wrote about 
pointers in C++.

So, this must be the most silly "argument by authority" ever offered.

I find that amusing and would have included a smiley except that I think that 
that would incur further flames.

It's no criticism of you; I do appreciate your effort, thanks. And I reiterate 
that the meaning of "pointer" I have used is the meaning in the Java language 
spec. And that that's about semantics, not about implementation, and not about C 
pointers or Pascal pointers or whatever else that some would rather wish it was.



[snip]

In the following that I snipped you had good discussion except for (as I could 
see) a fallacy-based denial of references existing in Python. I don't think 
there's any point in discussing that further, because it's evidently a religious 
matter where rational arguments  --  and I've tried a few  --  don't reach, in 
spite of the extreme triviality of the subject matter. Thanks for the effort at 
non-flaming discussion, it *is* appreciated.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Feb 12 15:22:08 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:22:08 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
	<mailman.2458.1266005196.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4da4$ed9$1@speranza.aioe.org>

mk wrote:

> John Posner wrote:
> 
>>>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy
> 
>> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html
> 
> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?

Nothing egregiously wrong with it.. maybe it's a bit wordy.  It may be an 
uphill fight getting it accepted into computer science the way Call by 
value, Call by reference, Call by sharing, and Call by copy-restore have 
been (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy>).

	Mel.
> 
> That is, you change labels by assignment, but pass the value of the
> label to a function. Since label value is passed, original label is not
> changed (i.e. it's not call by reference).
> 
> However, an object referenced by label value can be changed in Python,
> like in classic example of list label passed to a function and then this
> list being modified in a function.
> 
> Regards,
> mk




From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 15:26:24 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2340.1265856813.28905.p	ython-list@python.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Bruno Desthuilliers:
> Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit :
> (snip)
>> This group has an extraordinary high level of flaming and personal 
>> attacks
> 
> Oh my...
> 
> (snip remaining non-sense)
> 
> Mr Steinbach, I bet you'll count this as another "flaming" and "personal 
> attack", but nonetheless : you might have happier time if you were able 
> to understand the distinction between disagreement and "personal attack".
> 
> (now back to more interesting readings)

Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.

The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about the 
person you're debating with.

In addition, your statement about the earlier attacks on me, is untrue, and your 
implication that it's only about attacks on me, is untrue. Both of which are 
very misleading, by the way. I'm assuming that you're intentionally lying.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:28:48 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:28:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c5ae3fc9-0a9e-455b-912e-f31c603589e3@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 7:57?pm, McColgst <mccol... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2:39?pm, Martin <mdeka... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> > a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> > 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> > 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ? ? ?! ?lai(1:npft)
>
> > Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> > would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> > numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> > any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> > The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> > f = open(fname, 'r')
> > s = f.read()
>
> > if CANHT:
> > ? ? s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+ ? !
> > canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> > where CANHT might be
>
> > CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft'
>
> > But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Martin
>
> If I understand correctly, there are a couple ways to do it.
> One is to use .split() and split by the '!' sign, given that you wont
> have more than one '!' on a line. This will return a list of the words
> split by the delimiter, in this case being '!', so you should get back
> (19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ?, ?canht_ft(1:npft) ) ?and you can do
> whatever replace functions you want using the list.
>
> check out split:http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.split
>
> Another, is in your regular expression, you can match the first part
> or second part of the string by specifying where the '!' is,
> if you want to match the part after the '!' I would do something like
> r"[^! cahnt_ft]", or something similar (i'm not particularly up-to-
> date with my regex syntax, but I think you get the idea.)
>
> I hope I understood correctly, and I hope that helps.
>
> -sean

Hi I like the second suggestion, so this wouldn't rely on me having to
match the numbers only the string canht for example but still allow me
to replace the whole line, is that what you mean?

I tried it and the expression seemed to replace the entire file, so
perhaps i am doing something wrong. But in principle I think that
might be a better scheme than my current one. i tried

if CANHT:
    #s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
canht_ft", CANHT, s)
    s = re.sub(r"[^!  canht_ft]", CANHT, s)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 12 15:30:29 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:30:29 +0000
Subject: Replace various regex
In-Reply-To: <479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B75BA65.8000107@mrabarnett.plus.com>

McColgst wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2:39 pm, Martin <mdeka... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
>> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>>
>> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
>> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)
>>
>> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
>> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
>> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
>> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>>
>> The file read in is an ascii file.
>>
>> f = open(fname, 'r')
>> s = f.read()
>>
>> if CANHT:
>>     s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
>> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>>
>> where CANHT might be
>>
>> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'
>>
>> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Martin
> 
> If I understand correctly, there are a couple ways to do it.
> One is to use .split() and split by the '!' sign, given that you wont
> have more than one '!' on a line. This will return a list of the words
> split by the delimiter, in this case being '!', so you should get back
> (19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00  ,  canht_ft(1:npft) )  and you can do
> whatever replace functions you want using the list.
> 
> check out split: http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.split
> 
The .split method is the best way if you process the file a line at a
time. The .split method, incidentally, accepts a maxcount argument so
that you can split a line no more than once.

> Another, is in your regular expression, you can match the first part
> or second part of the string by specifying where the '!' is,
> if you want to match the part after the '!' I would do something like
> r"[^! cahnt_ft]", or something similar (i'm not particularly up-to-
> date with my regex syntax, but I think you get the idea.)
> 
The regex would be r"(?m)^[^!]*(!.*)" to capture the '!' and the rest of
the line.

> I hope I understood correctly, and I hope that helps.
> 



From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:32:29 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:32:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A silly question on file opening
References: <b8c02683-66c3-497a-b943-8e66765a68cc@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<a01025f4-a6e2-42bd-ad5c-6b45827df81a@v36g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <085eb96f-9023-4ef3-af29-95749f62e311@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 1:57?am, Anthony Tolle <anthony.to... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 10, 3:42?pm,joy99<subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Group,
> > [snip]
> > I tried to change the location to D:\file and as I saw in Python Docs
> > the file reading option is now "r+" so I changed the statement to
> > ? ?file_open=open("D:\file","r+")
> > but it is still giving error.
>
> Only use "r+" if you need to also write to the file. ?"r" is still
> good for opening for reading.
>
> Without seeing a traceback, I can only assume the error is caused by
> using a backslash in the path without escaping it. ?Try either the
> following:
>
> file_open=open("D:\\file","r+")
>
> file_open=open(r"D:\file","r+")
>
> For an explanation, see the Python documentation:
>
> http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-literals

Dear Group,

I am sorry I could not report. I was trying your solutions, I could
try only one or two, they are working. My problem got solved. Thank
you for your suggestions. But soon I find time, I would try all of
them, so that I can learn more and what I try to do in this room to
get better angles over any problem from experts like you. Thank you
for giving me your valuable time despite your busy schedule.

Wishing you happy day ahead,
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Feb 12 15:33:28 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 12:33:28 -0800
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
	<hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75BB18.7010904@stoneleaf.us>

mk wrote:
> John Posner wrote:
> 
>>>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy
> 
>> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html
> 
> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?
> 
> That is, you change labels by assignment, but pass the value of the 
> label to a function. Since label value is passed, original label is not 
> changed (i.e. it's not call by reference).
> 
> However, an object referenced by label value can be changed in Python, 
> like in classic example of list label passed to a function and then this 
> list being modified in a function.
> 
> Regards,
> mk
> 

Because "value" and "reference" are already well defined terms with very 
definite meanings, I think using them in any way to describe Python's 
model will lead to confusion.

Seems to me that "call by object", a term coined decades ago, and that 
accurately defines the way that Python (the language) actually does it, 
should be the term used.

My $0.02.

~Ethan~


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 12 15:41:40 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:41:40 +1100
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
References: <mailman.2434.1265983307.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl3ofb$cne$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87ocjufapn.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <mailman.2434.1265983307.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Lloyd Zusman  <ljz at asfast.com> wrote:
> >if (-T $filename) { print "file contains 'text' characters\n"; }
> >if (-B $filename) { print "file contains 'binary' characters\n"; }
>
> Assuming you're on a Unix-like system or can install Cygwin, the
> standard response is to use the "file" command. It's *much* more
> sophisticated.

Indeed, the ?file? command is an expected (though not standard) part of
most Unix systems, and its use frees us from the lies of filenames about
their contents.

The sophistication comes from an extensive database of heuristics ?
filesystem attributes, ?magic? content signatures, and parsing ? that
are together known as the ?magic database?. This database is maintained
along with the ?file? program, and made accessible through a C library
from the same code base called ?magic?.

So, you don't actually need to use the ?file? command to access this
sophistication. Just about every program on a GNU system that wants to
display file types, such as the graphical file manager, will query the
?magic? library directly to get the file type.

The ?file? code base has for a while now also included a Python
interface to this library, importable as the module name ?magic?.
Unfortunately it isn't registered at PyPI as far as I can tell. (There
are several project using the name ?magic? that implement something
similar, but they are nowhere near as sophisticated.)

On a Debian GNU/Linux system, you can install the ?python-magic? package
to get this installed. Otherwise, you can build it from the ?file? code
base <URL:http://www.darwinsys.com/file/>.

-- 
 \        ?I don't accept the currently fashionable assertion that any |
  `\       view is automatically as worthy of respect as any equal and |
_o__)                                   opposite view.? ?Douglas Adams |
Ben Finney


From jcquevedo84 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 15:46:19 2010
From: jcquevedo84 at gmail.com (Juan Carlos Rodriguez)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:46:19 -1200
Subject: ImportError: No module named mptest
Message-ID: <f598914f1002121246y1d199af7w7d3507c6b7abd49b@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I am trying implement a text from mod_python.

I have a apahce service 2.2.4, python 2.5 and  mod_python  3.3.1

I have this mistake:

MOD_PYTHON ERROR

ProcessId:      5956
Interpreter:    '192.168.5.32'

ServerName:     '192.168.5.32'
DocumentRoot:   'D:/aplicaciones/web'

URI:            '/python/index.py'
Location:       None
Directory:      'D:/aplicaciones/web/python/'
Filename:       'D:/aplicaciones/web/python/index.py'
PathInfo:       ''

Phase:          'PythonHandler'
Handler:        'mptest'

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
1537, in HandlerDispatch

    default=default_handler, arg=req, silent=hlist.silent)

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
1202, in _process_target
    module = import_module(module_name, path=path)

  File "C:\Python25\Lib\site-packages\mod_python\importer.py", line
304, in import_module
    return __import__(module_name, {}, {}, ['*'])

ImportError: No module named mptest

*WHAT CAN I DO?*
-------------- next part --------------
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From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 15:59:32 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:59:32 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
	<hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl4ffj$kg9$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?

Or "call by guido"? How do you like "call like a dutch"? :]



From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 16:02:40 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:02:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<479c4f49-ac58-4385-9624-428d4747d9f6@c5g2000vbh.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2459.1266006628.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d86f68a9-b1c6-4538-9ed4-a9f944810cb6@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 8:30?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> McColgst wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 2:39 pm, Martin <mdeka... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> >> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> >> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> >> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ? ? ?! ?lai(1:npft)
>
> >> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> >> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> >> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> >> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> >> The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> >> f = open(fname, 'r')
> >> s = f.read()
>
> >> if CANHT:
> >> ? ? s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+ ? !
> >> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> >> where CANHT might be
>
> >> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft'
>
> >> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> >> Thanks.
>
> >> Martin
>
> > If I understand correctly, there are a couple ways to do it.
> > One is to use .split() and split by the '!' sign, given that you wont
> > have more than one '!' on a line. This will return a list of the words
> > split by the delimiter, in this case being '!', so you should get back
> > (19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ?, ?canht_ft(1:npft) ) ?and you can do
> > whatever replace functions you want using the list.
>
> > check out split:http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#str.split
>
> The .split method is the best way if you process the file a line at a
> time. The .split method, incidentally, accepts a maxcount argument so
> that you can split a line no more than once.
>
> > Another, is in your regular expression, you can match the first part
> > or second part of the string by specifying where the '!' is,
> > if you want to match the part after the '!' I would do something like
> > r"[^! cahnt_ft]", or something similar (i'm not particularly up-to-
> > date with my regex syntax, but I think you get the idea.)
>
> The regex would be r"(?m)^[^!]*(!.*)" to capture the '!' and the rest of
> the line.
>
>
>
> > I hope I understood correctly, and I hope that helps.

I guess I could read the file a line at a time and try splitting it,
though I though it would be better to read it all once then search for
the various regex I need to match and replace?

I am not sure that regex helps, as that would match and replace every
line which had a "!". Perhaps if i explain more thoroughly?

So the input file looks something like this...

9*0.0                        !  canopy(1:ntiles)
12.100                       !  cs
0.0                          !  gs
9*50.0                       !  rgrain(1:ntiles)
 0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759  !  stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
9*0.46                       !  snow_tile(1:ntiles)
0.46                         !  snow_grnd
276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48  !  t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
9*276.78                     !  tstar_tile(1:ntiles)
19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 !  lai(1:npft)

So for each of the strings following the "!" I may potentially want to
match them and replace some of the numbers. That is I might search for
the expression snow_grnd with the intention of substituting 0.46 for
another number. What i came up with was a way to match all the numbers
and pass the replacement string.


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 16:03:47 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:03:47 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2461.1266008395.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>	<hl4cbf$aph$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2461.1266008395.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4fjq$3c5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Christian Heimes:
> mk wrote:
>> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?
> 
> Or "call by guido"? How do you like "call like a dutch"? :]

Just a note: it might be more clear to talk about "pass by XXX" than "call by XXX".

Unless you're talking about something else than argument passing.

The standard terminology is in my view fine.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 12 16:33:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 21:33:31 GMT
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>
	<mailman.2458.1266005196.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0385b53b$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:07:08 +0100, mk wrote:

> John Posner wrote:
> 
>>>      http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm
>>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy
> 
>> [1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2008-May/008583.html
> 
> Hmm how about "call by label-value"?

Python's calling convention already has an well-established name, 
established over thirty years ago by the distinguished computer scientist 
Barbara Liskov, namely call-by-sharing. It's also known as "call-by-
object-reference". It doesn't need yet another name.



-- 
Steven


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Feb 12 16:52:34 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:52:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit?:
> 
> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
> maximum amount of confusion possible.

Well, I think the Ruby people got it right. Python *does* pass parameters 
by reference. After all, we even speak about reference counting, 
reference cycles, etc.

So I'm not sure what distinction you're making here.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 17:10:01 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:10:01 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75D1B9.1050809@holdenweb.com>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
>> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
>> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
>> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
>> maximum amount of confusion possible.
> 
> Well, I think the Ruby people got it right. Python *does* pass parameters 
> by reference. After all, we even speak about reference counting, 
> reference cycles, etc.
> 
> So I'm not sure what distinction you're making here.
> 
He's distinguishing what Python does from the "call by reference" which
has been used since the days of Algol 60.

As has already been pointed out, if Python used call by reference then
the following code would run without raising an AssertionError:

def exchange(a, b):
    a, b = b, a

x = 1
y = 2
exchange(x, y)
assert (x == 2 and y == 1)

Since function-local assignment always takes place in the function
call's local namespace Python does not, and cannot, work like this, and
hence the term "call by reference" is inapplicable to Python's semantics.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 17:10:01 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:10:01 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B75D1B9.1050809@holdenweb.com>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
>> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
>> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
>> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
>> maximum amount of confusion possible.
> 
> Well, I think the Ruby people got it right. Python *does* pass parameters 
> by reference. After all, we even speak about reference counting, 
> reference cycles, etc.
> 
> So I'm not sure what distinction you're making here.
> 
He's distinguishing what Python does from the "call by reference" which
has been used since the days of Algol 60.

As has already been pointed out, if Python used call by reference then
the following code would run without raising an AssertionError:

def exchange(a, b):
    a, b = b, a

x = 1
y = 2
exchange(x, y)
assert (x == 2 and y == 1)

Since function-local assignment always takes place in the function
call's local namespace Python does not, and cannot, work like this, and
hence the term "call by reference" is inapplicable to Python's semantics.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 17:12:06 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:12:06 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Antoine Pitrou:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>> What Python does is called "pass by sharing", or sometimes "pass by
>> object reference". It is exactly the same as what (e.g.) Ruby and Java
>> do, except that confusingly the Ruby people call it "pass by reference"
>> and the Java people call it "pass by value", thus guaranteeing the
>> maximum amount of confusion possible.
> 
> Well, I think the Ruby people got it right. Python *does* pass parameters 
> by reference. After all, we even speak about reference counting, 
> reference cycles, etc.
> 
> So I'm not sure what distinction you're making here.

Steven talks about the standard meaning of "pass by reference".

Essentially that means that you can implement a routine "swap" such that

   a = 1; b = 2; swap( a, b )

results in a == 2 and b == 1.

In Pascal that's 'var' parameters, in C there's no such, in C++ it's reference 
type parameters using '&' as a type builder, in C# it's 'out' and 'ref' 
parameters (I think C# has both the most practical and the most elegant 
implementation, you can see at the call site whether it's by reference), so on.

To some degree "pass by reference" is however just a collection of special cases 
with some similarity. For example, if one says that the guiding principle & main 
criterion is that one should not have to indicate the pass by reference at the 
call site, then that would exclude C#. But if one allows some indication at the 
call site, then that would perhaps include C (applying the & address op), which 
everyone agrees does not have call by reference.

So, to understand the conventional meaning of the term it is perhaps necessary 
to have some knowledge of all the special cases, like here C# versus C.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 17:17:00 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:17:00 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4k17$52t$2@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> You may note that that Wikipedia article refers to an article that I
> wrote about pointers in C++.
> 
It's a broken link, referring to a non-existent server.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 17:27:19 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:27:19 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2466.1266013057.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2466.1266013057.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4kgg$h43$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> You may note that that Wikipedia article refers to an article that I
>> wrote about pointers in C++.
>>
> It's a broken link, referring to a non-existent server.

Yes, sorry.

It's been that way a long time, and for the same reason my C++ tutorial, the 
only one linked to from the C++ FAQ, is also off-line.

However, if you're interested then copies of the "pointers" doc are likely to be 
floating around (at one time some mention of it somewhere generated very high 
traffic over a few weeks, people downloading the PDF, and then I almost reversed 
my decision not to have ads...).


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Feb 12 17:27:32 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:27:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B75D1B9.1050809@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl4kkk$r7$2@ger.gmane.org>

Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:10:01 -0500, Steve Holden a ?crit?:
> 
> As has already been pointed out, if Python used call by reference then
> the following code would run without raising an AssertionError:
> 
> def exchange(a, b):
>     a, b = b, a
> 
> x = 1
> y = 2
> exchange(x, y)
> assert (x == 2 and y == 1)
> 
> Since function-local assignment always takes place in the function
> call's local namespace

I don't think this is related to a difference in parameter passing style.

It's just that assignment ("=") means a different thing in Python than in 
non-object languages (or fake-object languages such as C++ or PHP): it 
rebinds instead of mutating in-place. If it mutated, you wouldn't have 
the AssertionError.

If you mutate in-place:

>>> def exchange(a, b):
...     t = a[:]
...     a[:] = b
...     b[:] = t
... 
>>> x, y = [1], [2]
>>> exchange(x, y)
>>> x, y
([2], [1])

Regards

Antoine.



From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Feb 12 17:37:55 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:37:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4l83$r7$3@ger.gmane.org>

Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:12:06 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit?:
> 
> Steven talks about the standard meaning of "pass by reference".

See my answer to Steve's message. You can't postulate a "standard 
meaning" of "pass by reference" independently of the specificities of 
each language. For example a "variable" in Python means something 
different than in non-object languages; it is impossible to have an 
agnostic definition.

In Python and other true object languages, the operations on references 
(especially assignment) don't have the same semantics as in more archaic 
languages. This is no reason, IMO, to refuse using the term "pass by 
reference". The state of art in computing languages evolves, and it 
wouldn't be constructive to remain stuck with definitions from the 1960s.

Regards

Antoine.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 12 17:44:52 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 22:44:52 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:

> Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
> 
> The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
> the person you're debating with.

As negative as accusing somebody of intentionally lying?

Or is it only a personal attack when other people dare to disagree with 
Alf P. Steinbach?


> In addition, your statement about the earlier attacks on me, is untrue,
> and your implication that it's only about attacks on me, is untrue. Both
> of which are very misleading, by the way. I'm assuming that you're
> intentionally lying.

Get over yourself. You're not so important that everyone is falling over 
themselves to discredit you by intentional lying.

You do bring some technical knowledge and perspectives that is valuable to
this community, but it comes with so much spikiness, near-paranoia and
Freudian projection that it is extremely unpleasant dealing with you.

Since you first came to this community, you have displayed a remarkable 
ability to take personal offence at virtually every disagreement, a 
deeply paranoid viewpoint that whenever somebody contradicts your 
statements they are deliberately lying, and a level of arrogance that is 
outstanding even for computer science. (How sure of yourself do you have 
to be to write a textbook for beginners in a language that you yourself 
are a self-professed beginner in?)

I note with interest that this is not the only forum where your reaction 
to disagreement is to accuse others of deliberate lying. It is a habit of 
yours, and you've displayed it frequently and repeatedly. For example:

http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/General/comp.programming/2006-08/msg00139.html

http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/43780-20.php

http://groups.google.am/group/comp.lang.c++/browse_thread/thread/555331f8dd594837

I'm no longer willing to tolerate the unpleasant attitudes you 
display. So congratulations Alf. I've only kill-filed one other person on 
this newsgroup until now. You are now the second. I may reverse it some 
time in the future, but for now I'm just not interested in your paranoid 
accusations that others are lying about you and your continual misuse of 
the term "ad hominem" to refer to any and all criticism of your behaviour.

*plonk*


-- 
Steven


From rtw at rtw.me.uk  Fri Feb 12 17:46:23 2010
From: rtw at rtw.me.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:46:23 -0600
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D1DE7ED554F0rtwfreenetREMOVEcouk@216.196.109.145>

hjebbers wrote in news:2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-
3348b72b7e9a at u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com in comp.lang.python:

> the information about the error is a windows dump.

This may help:

# http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms680621(VS.85).aspx

SEM_FAILCRITICALERRORS = 1
SEM_NOALIGNMENTFAULTEXCEPT = 4
SEM_NOGPFAULTERRORBOX = 4
SEM_NOOPENFILEERRORBOX = 8


import ctypes
from ctypes.wintypes import UINT

SetErrorMode = ctypes.windll.kernel32.SetErrorMode
SetErrorMode.restype = UINT
SetErrorMode.argtypes = ( UINT,)

Then putting:

SetErrorMode( SEM_FAILCRITICALERRORS | SEM_NOGPFAULTERRORBOX )

at the start of you programme, should stop the "Critical Error" dialog 
box you are seeing and you may get a chance to see a traceback.

Rob.


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 17:49:38 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:49:38 +0100
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2468.1266014309.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2468.1266014309.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4lqa$sc0$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Antoine Pitrou:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:12:06 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit :
>> Steven talks about the standard meaning of "pass by reference".
> 
> See my answer to Steve's message. You can't postulate a "standard 
> meaning" of "pass by reference" independently of the specificities of 
> each language.

Agreed. See e.g. my discussion of C versus C# in the article you responded to.


> For example a "variable" in Python means something 
> different than in non-object languages; it is impossible to have an 
> agnostic definition.

It's possible and relatively speaking easy, but it's bound up with such a tangle 
of terminological and religious issues that it's best not discussed here. :-(

But if you find/have a description that helps you understand what's going on, 
and that correctly predicts the effect of code, then just Use It. :-)

After all, learning some "simpler" description would at that point just be more 
work.


> In Python and other true object languages, the operations on references 
> (especially assignment) don't have the same semantics as in more archaic 
> languages. This is no reason, IMO, to refuse using the term "pass by 
> reference". The state of art in computing languages evolves, and it 
> wouldn't be constructive to remain stuck with definitions from the 1960s.

The main reason for not using that term for Python is that "pass by reference" 
has the extremely strong connotation of being able to implement 'swap'.

And since there already is adequate standard terminology, why confuse things.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 12 18:18:48 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:18:48 +1300
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl4nko$ti9$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> def swap(a, b):
>     a, b = b, a
> 
> x = 1
> y = 2
> swap(x, y)
> assert (x == 2) and (y==1)

Can't the same point be more simply made with this example:

def setval(a):
     a = 12345

x = 1
setval(x)
print x

?


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 18:26:57 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:26:57 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4nko$ti9$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4nko$ti9$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hl4o4e$hfn$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gib Bogle wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> def swap(a, b):
>>     a, b = b, a
>>
>> x = 1
>> y = 2
>> swap(x, y)
>> assert (x == 2) and (y==1)
> 
> Can't the same point be more simply made with this example:
> 
> def setval(a):
>     a = 12345
> 
> x = 1
> setval(x)
> print x
> 
Yes, and it will doubtless be subject to exactly the same bogus refutations.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From solipsis at pitrou.net  Fri Feb 12 18:30:12 2010
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:30:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2468.1266014309.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl4lqa$sc0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4oa4$iak$1@ger.gmane.org>

Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:49:38 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit?:
> 
> The main reason for not using that term for Python is that "pass by
> reference" has the extremely strong connotation of being able to
> implement 'swap'.

But 'swap' is so easy to write as a one-line statement that it's foolish 
to want to make a Python function for it...

cheers

Antoine.




From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 18:47:56 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:47:56 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
>>
>> The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
>> the person you're debating with.
> 
> As negative as accusing somebody of intentionally lying?
> 
> Or is it only a personal attack when other people dare to disagree with 
> Alf P. Steinbach?

Do you mean that everybody else is allowed to get personal, but I, in return, am 
not so allowed?


>> In addition, your statement about the earlier attacks on me, is untrue,
>> and your implication that it's only about attacks on me, is untrue. Both
>> of which are very misleading, by the way. I'm assuming that you're
>> intentionally lying.
> 
> Get over yourself. You're not so important that everyone is falling over 
> themselves to discredit you by intentional lying.

This implies something about my beliefs about my importance, that is, it is 
clearly intended as an ad hominem attack.

I'm getting a bit tired of that.



> You do bring some technical knowledge and perspectives that is valuable to
> this community, but it comes with so much spikiness, near-paranoia and
> Freudian projection that it is extremely unpleasant dealing with you.
> 
> Since you first came to this community, you have displayed a remarkable 
> ability to take personal offence at virtually every disagreement,

That is not true.

I do take offense at pure personal attacks, though.

Personal attacks are about person, technical discussion is about technical things.



> a deeply paranoid viewpoint that whenever somebody contradicts your 
> statements they are deliberately lying,

That's just stupid, sorry.

Being paranoid is not about being attacked, or about pointing out when someone's 
lying.

Hello.


> and a level of arrogance that is 
> outstanding even for computer science. (How sure of yourself do you have 
> to be to write a textbook for beginners in a language that you yourself 
> are a self-professed beginner in?)
> 
> I note with interest that this is not the only forum where your reaction 
> to disagreement is to accuse others of deliberate lying.

Your argument gets a bit circular.



> It is a habit of yours,

That is untrue.


> and you've displayed it frequently

No, that is untrue.


> and repeatedly.

Yes, I have repeatedly pointed when people have been lying, citing the evidence 
and logic leading to that conclusion.

I wouldn't just "accuse" someone of something like that.

It's far too serious (however, above you're happy with accusing me of being 
paranoid and whatever, so I conclude that you have no such qualms).


> For example:
> 
> http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/General/comp.programming/2006-08/msg00139.html
> 
> http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/43780-20.php
> 
> http://groups.google.am/group/comp.lang.c++/browse_thread/thread/555331f8dd594837

Yes, I've been on the net a long time, and consequently I have been involved in 
flame wars. :-)[1]

That is no excuse for your behavior.

An extremely long thread dedicated to the notion that there are no references in 
Python (which is blatantly false), coupled with personal attacks on the one 
person arguing that there are. I could easily think that you were having me on. 
Of course most anyone else who'd hold the rational opinion would not join the 
battlefield, because it clearly wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating 
anyone, but I feel that follow-ups to my articles should be answered.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


Notes:
[1]  Like one here where some guy A objects to some other guy B's use of the 
term "portable assembler" about C, where at first I try to defend B's point of 
view, since it is after all one employed even by the creators of C. B sensibly 
opts out of the discussion while I stay on, predictable result. Another flame 
war is with some functional programming fanatic, and a third with a known troll.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Feb 12 18:55:42 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:55:42 +1300
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <0385b53b$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B75A1DA.5030004@optimum.net>	<mailman.2458.1266005196.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<0385b53b$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7tm7g9Fu56U1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Python's calling convention already has an well-established name, 
> established over thirty years ago by the distinguished computer scientist 
> Barbara Liskov, namely call-by-sharing.

And she was mistaken in thinking it needed a new name.

-- 
Greg


From jim.hefferon at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:02:12 2010
From: jim.hefferon at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:02:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: intolerant HTML parser
References: <735ba42e-e50a-4b08-a8b2-7228971aa50e@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<4b6fd672$0$6734$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkoog1$7l0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b6fe93d$0$6724$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<hkq0aj$v4s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b712919$0$6584$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
	<hkvc20$3gu$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <f260b87f-58d2-4f74-ba0a-2bc9a31666fc@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

I want to thank everyone for the help, which I found very useful (the
parts that I understood :-) ).

Since I think there was some question, it happens that I am working
under django and submitting a certain form triggers an html mail.  I
wanted to validate the html in some of my unit tests.  It is only
about 30 lines of html so I think I'll take a pass on automated html
generation, but FWIW the intolerant parser found a couple of errors.

Thanks again,
Jim


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:05:45 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:05:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2465.1266012634.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6aa571f-f051-4ded-b499-16fbcf6dddb3@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 4:10?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :

On Feb 12, 4:10?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :

Steve,
Why do so many of your posts come in as doubles and triples. Is this a
case of "studdering click finger" of some fault of your newsreader?

-- concerned fellow pythonista...


From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:18:43 2010
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:18:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Configuring apache to execute python scripts using mod_python
	handler
References: <f598914f1002120908h5f179774g6327ad0860166640@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl4r53$o16$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:08:59 -0400, Juan Carlos Rodriguez wrote:

Hello Juan Carlos,

You're better off raising this on the mod_python list, however...

Python is looking for a module called mptest, and cannot find it.

Have you created the mptest.py module? (It should contain the handler function 
in your item (2)).

Is it on the python path used by the webserver?  See for example the last post
at 
http://forums.devshed.com/apache-development-15/installing-python-on-apache-42184.html 
which shows how you can set up the path.

Cheers, 

Kev




From m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu  Fri Feb 12 19:21:22 2010
From: m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu (Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:21:22 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
Message-ID: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>

Dear group:

I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.

Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...

Thanks,
Angelica.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:31:15 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:31:15 -0600
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <hl4oa4$iak$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2463.1266011581.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl4jjv$8v9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2468.1266014309.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl4lqa$sc0$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl4oa4$iak$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl4rso$r6d$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-12 17:30 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:49:38 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach a ?crit :
>>
>> The main reason for not using that term for Python is that "pass by
>> reference" has the extremely strong connotation of being able to
>> implement 'swap'.
>
> But 'swap' is so easy to write as a one-line statement that it's foolish
> to want to make a Python function for it...

Yes, but that's besides the point. The exercise at hand is to classify the 
semantic behavior of the function call syntax with respect to its arguments. 
Being able to implement swap() as a function is a distinguishing feature of the 
kind of function call semantics that the computer science community has named 
"call by reference."

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 19:35:19 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 16:35:19 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <c02acca21002030310u64d7bd44n2c538ec94b89af9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PS0bn.36331$Ym4.7979@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	<mailman.2029.1265433907.28905.pyt
	<mailman.2085.1265546107.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4s47$3g7$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2085.1265546107.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>bartc wrote:
>> "Arnaud Delobelle" <arnodel at googlemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:m28wb6ypfs.fsf at googlemail.com...
>>> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:
>>>> 
>>>> Note the *literal* part. If you (the programmer) is likely to know the
>>>> parameter value when writing the code, then the function is actually two
>>>> separate functions.
>>>
>>> Thanks, I understand what Steve Holden meant now.
>> 
>> I've just noticed that 'literal' part. But I think I still disagree.
>> 
>> For a real-world example, it means instead of having a room with a
>> light-switch in it, if I *know* I want the light on or off, I should
>> have two rooms: one with the light permanently on, and one with it
>> permanently off, and just walk into the right one.
> 
>Congratulations.  That has to be the most bogus analogy I've seen on
>c.l.py this year.

Aww, c'mon, it's less than two months into the year, don't be so
hyperbolic.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 19:41:16 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:41:16 -0300
Subject: pyparsing wrong output
References: <692c428f1002120541n6b3aabb0jb62c50f90715f38e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71iu22px6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:41:40 -0300, Eknath Venkataramani  
<eknath.iyer at gmail.com> escribi?:

> I am trying to write a parser in pyparsing.
> Help Me. http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177078/ is the code and this is  
> input
> file: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177076/ .
> I get output as:
> <generator object at 0xb723b80c>

There is nothing wrong with pyparsing here. scanString() returns a  
generator, like this:

py> g = (x for x in range(20) if x % 3 == 1)
py> g
<generator object <genexpr> at 0x00E50D78>

A generator is like a function that may be suspended and restarted. It  
yields one value at a time, and only runs when you ask for the next value:

py> next(g)
1
py> next(g)
4

You may use a `for` loop to consume the generator:

py> for i in g:
...   print i
...
7
10
13
16
19

Once it run to exhaustion, asking for more elements always raises  
StopIteration:

py> next(g)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
StopIteration

Try something like this:

results = x.scanString(filedata)
for result in results:
     print result

See http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#generators

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Fri Feb 12 19:44:57 2010
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:44:57 -0800
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>

A 32 bit app can only use 4 GB of memory itself (regardless of the amount of
system ram), the OS claims some of this for the system, dlls occupy some of
it, etc. As such, the app can only really use a smaller subset (generally
between 2 to 3 GB, depending upon the app and the OS).

Chris


On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica <
m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu> wrote:

> Dear group:
>
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount
> of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low,
> but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python
> always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2
> GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4
> GB... I'm amazed.
>
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I
> typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me
> nothing I can use...
>
> Thanks,
> Angelica.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 12 19:45:02 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:45:02 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl
	2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4smt$st0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[...]
> Of course most anyone else who'd hold the
> rational opinion would not join the battlefield, because it clearly
> wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating anyone, but I feel that
> follow-ups to my articles should be answered.
> 
In other words, you must have the last word, a behavioral characteristic
I will avoid drawing the obvious conclusions about for fear of begin
accused (yet again) of making ad hominem attacks.

I suppose you will therefore be unable to resist the temptation to
respond to this. Though I'd love to be proved wrong again.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 12 19:48:27 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:48:27 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl
	2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl4ssj$t8l$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:26:24 +0100, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I do count this as a personal attack and flaming.
>>>
>>> The litmus test for that is that it says something very negative about
>>> the person you're debating with.
>>
>> As negative as accusing somebody of intentionally lying?
>>
>> Or is it only a personal attack when other people dare to disagree 
>> with Alf P. Steinbach?
> 
> Do you mean that everybody else is allowed to get personal, but I, in 
> return, am not so allowed?
> 
> 
>>> In addition, your statement about the earlier attacks on me, is untrue,
>>> and your implication that it's only about attacks on me, is untrue. Both
>>> of which are very misleading, by the way. I'm assuming that you're
>>> intentionally lying.
>>
>> Get over yourself. You're not so important that everyone is falling 
>> over themselves to discredit you by intentional lying.
> 
> This implies something about my beliefs about my importance, that is, it 
> is clearly intended as an ad hominem attack.
> 
> I'm getting a bit tired of that.
> 
> 
> 
>> You do bring some technical knowledge and perspectives that is 
>> valuable to
>> this community, but it comes with so much spikiness, near-paranoia and
>> Freudian projection that it is extremely unpleasant dealing with you.
>>
>> Since you first came to this community, you have displayed a 
>> remarkable ability to take personal offence at virtually every 
>> disagreement,
> 
> That is not true.
> 
> I do take offense at pure personal attacks, though.
> 
> Personal attacks are about person, technical discussion is about 
> technical things.
> 
> 
> 
>> a deeply paranoid viewpoint that whenever somebody contradicts your 
>> statements they are deliberately lying,
> 
> That's just stupid, sorry.
> 
> Being paranoid is not about being attacked, or about pointing out when 
> someone's lying.
> 
> Hello.
> 
> 
>> and a level of arrogance that is outstanding even for computer 
>> science. (How sure of yourself do you have to be to write a textbook 
>> for beginners in a language that you yourself are a self-professed 
>> beginner in?)
>>
>> I note with interest that this is not the only forum where your 
>> reaction to disagreement is to accuse others of deliberate lying.
> 
> Your argument gets a bit circular.
> 
> 
> 
>> It is a habit of yours,
> 
> That is untrue.
> 
> 
>> and you've displayed it frequently
> 
> No, that is untrue.
> 
> 
>> and repeatedly.
> 
> Yes, I have repeatedly pointed when people have been lying, citing the 
> evidence and logic leading to that conclusion.
> 
> I wouldn't just "accuse" someone of something like that.
> 
> It's far too serious (however, above you're happy with accusing me of 
> being paranoid and whatever, so I conclude that you have no such qualms).
> 
> 
>> For example:
>>
>> http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/General/comp.programming/2006-08/msg00139.html 
>>
>>
>> http://www.embeddedrelated.com/usenet/embedded/show/43780-20.php
>>
>> http://groups.google.am/group/comp.lang.c++/browse_thread/thread/555331f8dd594837 
>>
> 
> Yes, I've been on the net a long time, and consequently I have been 
> involved in flame wars. :-)[1]
> 
> That is no excuse for your behavior.
> 
> An extremely long thread dedicated to the notion that there are no 
> references in Python (which is blatantly false), coupled with personal 
> attacks on the one person arguing that there are. I could easily think 
> that you were having me on. Of course most anyone else who'd hold the 
> rational opinion would not join the battlefield, because it clearly 
> wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating anyone, but I feel that 
> follow-ups to my articles should be answered.
> 
> 
> Cheers & hth.,
> 
> - Alf
> 
> 
> Notes:
> [1]  Like one here where some guy A objects to some other guy B's use of 
> the term "portable assembler" about C, where at first I try to defend 
> B's point of view, since it is after all one employed even by the 
> creators of C. B sensibly opts out of the discussion while I stay on, 
> predictable result. Another flame war is with some functional 
> programming fanatic, and a third with a known troll.

I'm intrigued by your comments over the last couple of weeks, as you 
obviously know so much more about Python than people who have been 
working on it and/or using it for the 20 odd years of the existence of 
the language.  Is it safe to assume that shortly you will be telling the 
scientific community that Einstein was a complete bozo and that his 
theory of relativity is crap, or that Stephen (Bob?) Hawking knows 
nothing about the origins of the universe?

To put it another way, please stand up Alf, your voice is rather 
muffled.  And this isn't an ad hominem attack, whatever the hell that 
means, I (NOTE I ) personally wish you'd bugger off and leave the 
bandwidth to people who genuinely want to discuss Python, computing 
algorithms, whatever.

And please do NOT bother to reply.  Your pathetic smileys and/or HTH 
garbage cut no ice with me.  I'm quite simply staggered that the Python 
community as a whole have shown far more patience than I have, otherwise 
you'd have been shot down in seriously bad flames days ago.

To you, Alf, get stuffed.

To the rest of the Python community, thank you for doing a fantastic 
job, I do appreciate it, and am currently in my own little way 
attempting to put something back in.

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Feb 12 19:55:46 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:55:46 +1300
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2467.1266013673.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>	<4B75D1B9.1050809@holdenweb.com>
	<mailman.2467.1266013673.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tmb0tFektU1@mid.individual.net>

Antoine Pitrou wrote:

> It's just that assignment ("=") means a different thing in Python than in 
> non-object languages (or fake-object languages such as C++ or PHP): it 
> rebinds instead of mutating in-place.  If it mutated, you wouldn't have
> the AssertionError.

It doesn't really have anything to do with assignment semantics.
The essence of pass-by-reference is that the formal parameter
name becomes an alias for the actual parameter in all respects.
Whatever the semantics of assignment, you can come up with
variations of the language that either do or don't support
pass-by-reference in this sense. It's an orthogonal issue.

-- 
Greg


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:58:26 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:58:26 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <6546CE32-E9EA-4E33-9C7B-8A9808A4A083@gmail.com>


On Feb 12, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:

> Dear group:
> 
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
> 
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...

How are you determining that it has occupied "exactly only 2.2GB?" 

S



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 12 20:00:47 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:00:47 +0000
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <hl4tjm$utk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:
> Dear group:
> 
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
> 
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...
> 
> Thanks,
> Angelica.
Please check the archives for the thread Please help with MemoryError, 
it was only posted a day or two back.  It's a problem specific to Windows.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 20:03:04 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:03:04 -0300
Subject: Helpp I want view page .py on apache WHAT CAN I DO???????????????
References: <f598914f1002120934u756ccadfm817da4a43e341154@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71jvefwx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

Hola!

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:34:33 -0300, Juan Carlos Rodriguez  
<jcquevedo84 at gmail.com> escribi?:

> ImportError: No module named mptest

Hay una lista en castellano sobre Python:
http://python.org.ar/pyar/ListaDeCorreo

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 20:06:49 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 17:06:49 -0800
Subject: Dreaming of new generation IDE
References: <mailman.1825.1265195427.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<c4a84929-a6af-4281-8e29-7fd3eaa90eb0@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b743340$0$20738$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hl4tv9$190$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b743340$0$20738$426a74cc at news.free.fr>,
Bruno Desthuilliers  <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>
>Ever read "worst is better" ?-)

Nope -- maybe you mean "worse is better"?

http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html

(Nitpicking because you need the correct term to search.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Feb 12 20:14:46 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:14:46 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002121714u4c2b3c84n98354d9800c7c505@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
<m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu> wrote:
> Dear group:
>
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
>
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...
>
> Thanks,
> Angelica.


There's nothing you can do in Python to fix it. A MemoryError means
that Python asked the OS to malloc something and it refused to give it
any more memory. In this case, it's because Windows will only allocate
2GB of RAM to a single process. There is a way to extend that to 3GB,
but I don't quite understand how to do it- something about setting
linker flags. Easiest way to handle this would be to switch to a
64-bit Python on a 64-bit platform. That way, you can use up to 8TB of
memory.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx#memory_limits

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 20:29:42 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:29:42 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2477.1266022127.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com>	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl	2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2477.1266022127.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl4v6f$bh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Mark Lawrence:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>
>> An extremely long thread dedicated to the notion that there are no 
>> references in Python (which is blatantly false), coupled with personal 
>> attacks on the one person arguing that there are. I could easily think 
>> that you were having me on. Of course most anyone else who'd hold the 
>> rational opinion would not join the battlefield, because it clearly 
>> wasn't and isn't about convincing or educating anyone, but I feel that 
>> follow-ups to my articles should be answered.
[snippety]
> 
> I'm intrigued by your comments over the last couple of weeks, as you 
> obviously know so much more about Python than people who have been 
> working on it and/or using it for the 20 odd years of the existence of 
> the language.

I don't.

On the other hand, it's a fallacy to think other people must be perfect.

The glossary of my Python 3.1.1 documentation defines

   "Reference count:
   The number of references to an object. [...]"

And so arguing against the existence of assignable references in Python would be 
silly if it was a genuine technical discussion.

But I suspect that, in spite of my /first article's/ reference and frequent 
later references to term definitions etc., many who posted in this thread 
thought they were arguing against some other point of view, in the frenzy not 
bothering to check out things or actually /read/ what they replied to.

So, as demonstrated, assuming that you were referring to people participating in 
this thread, people who have used a language for 20 odd years can still be wrong 
about something  --  even when that something is utterly trivial.


>  Is it safe to assume that shortly you will be telling the 
> scientific community that Einstein was a complete bozo and that his 
> theory of relativity is crap, or that Stephen (Bob?) Hawking knows 
> nothing about the origins of the universe?
> 
> To put it another way, please stand up Alf, your voice is rather 
> muffled.  And this isn't an ad hominem attack

Your response *is not* a personal attack?

Then why are you trying to imply all kinds of things about my person, and not 
mentioning anything technical?

Is there anything in the above, about assignable references, that you really 
think is on a par with relativity and requires Einstein's genius to understand?


>, whatever the hell that 
> means, I (NOTE I ) personally wish you'd bugger off and leave the 
> bandwidth to people who genuinely want to discuss Python, computing 
> algorithms, whatever.
> 
> And please do NOT bother to reply.  Your pathetic smileys and/or HTH 
> garbage cut no ice with me.  I'm quite simply staggered that the Python 
> community as a whole have shown far more patience than I have, otherwise 
> you'd have been shot down in seriously bad flames days ago.
> 
> To you, Alf, get stuffed.

Are you sure that this is not a personal attack?

Just curious how you manage to think it couldn't be.


Cheers & hth., ;-)

- Alf


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 12 20:32:26 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Feb 2010 17:32:26 -0800
Subject: Calendar GUI
References: <42f7d5c51002051608u38e6a3bbt2a07dcf330acf92@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B6D055A.30901@gmail.com>
	<mailman.2069.1265506605.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<GaCdndFHyMHXgu3WnZ2dnUVZ_q1i4p2d@wavecable.com>
Message-ID: <hl4vfa$eqo$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <GaCdndFHyMHXgu3WnZ2dnUVZ_q1i4p2d at wavecable.com>,
 <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote:
>
>Take a look at wxscheduler, and chandler.

You're joking about Chandler, right?  
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 20:36:42 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:36:42 -0300
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl2ob2$3ib$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.2422.1265961504.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl3o7g$l12$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71lfgzgx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:22:40 -0300, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> escribi?:

> In article <mailman.2422.1265961504.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> On 11 Feb 2010 21:18:26 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>> following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>> In article <mailman.2077.1265524158.28905.python-list at python.org>,
>>> Gabriel Genellina <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Strange. With Python 2.6.4 I don't need to do that; I'd say the  
>>>> difference
>>>> is in the OS or antivirus (some AV are known to break the TCP stack).
>>>
>>> Perhaps, but I've also found that ctrl-C doesn't work on Windows.
>>
>> 	Unless the running program makes an I/O call to the console, I don't
>> think <ctrl-c> gets past the device driver... <G>
>
> That's probably it.  It's more annoying for me because I run Windows with
> a VM on a Mac, which doesn't have ctrl-break.

On a "real" PC with Windows XP SP3 and Python 2.6.4, with an idle server,  
just hitting Ctrl-C was enough:

D:\temp>python -m SimpleXMLRPCServer
Running XML-RPC server on port 8000
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "d:\apps\python26\lib\runpy.py", line 122, in _run_module_as_main
     "__main__", fname, loader, pkg_name)
   File "d:\apps\python26\lib\runpy.py", line 34, in _run_code
     exec code in run_globals
   File "d:\apps\python26\lib\SimpleXMLRPCServer.py", line 615, in <module>
     server.serve_forever()
   File "d:\apps\python26\lib\SocketServer.py", line 224, in serve_forever
     r, w, e = select.select([self], [], [], poll_interval)
KeyboardInterrupt

A slightly more realistic example: a busy, single threaded server. I had  
to hit Ctrl-C twice: the first time, KeyboardInterrupt was sent as a Fault  
response to the client.


import sys

def busy():
     x = 50000
     y = x**x
     return "Ok"

if sys.argv[1]=='server':
     import SimpleXMLRPCServer
     server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("localhost",  
8000),logRequests=False)
     server.register_function(busy)
     server.serve_forever()
else:
   import xmlrpclib
   proxy = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy("http://localhost:8000/")
   while True:
     print "client", proxy.busy()


Maybe the OP's code containes a bare 'except:' clause that swallows  
KeyboardInterrupt, or the server is so busy that is always executing a  
function handler (and all KeyboardInterrupt become Fault and are sent as a  
function response).

Mmm, perhaps that's a bug, a KeyboardInterrupt should bubble up to the  
server code, not being treated as an error in computing the function  
result.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Feb 12 20:42:59 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:42:59 +0100
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <hl5032$4ie$1@ger.gmane.org>

Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:
> Dear group:
> 
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.

The amount of RAM in your boxes is unrelated to your issue. A 32bit
process is able to address only 4GB of virtual memory because it has no
way to access memory addresses beyond the 32bit border. Large amount of
the address space are reserved for multiple purposes like error checking
(e.g. the NULL pointer), the entry point of the program, its stack and
address space for reallocating dynamic linked libraries. On modern Linux
systems the space for the heap is about 2.6 to 2.7 GB large. The heap is
the memory segment used by malloc() and friends. It looks like the
memory segment for the heap is slightly smaller on Windows.

Virtual memory isn't the same as resident memory. A program may only
occupy 100 MB in your RAM (resident memory) but it may use 1.5 GB of
virtual memory. Virtual memory takes memory fragmentation and unused
pages into account. If you malloc() 1 GB memory but just file up the
first byte your program requires 1 GB of virtual memory but only a few
KB resident memory. At least that's the story on Linux and several other
Unix-like OSes. I'm not sure how Windows deals with memory.

If your program needs more than 2 GB of RAM you should switch to a 64bit
OS and a 64bit version of Python. Windows AMD64 builds for Python are
available on python.

Christian



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 20:48:30 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:48:30 -0300
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:29:12 -0300, Arnaud Delobelle  
<arnodel at googlemail.com> escribi?:

> I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
> couple of days ago:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html

Ouch! I didn't see your post, nor several other earlier posts in this  
thread. In fact, I thought mine was the *first* reply when I wrote it!

Yes, of course, your code does exactly that without any bytecode hacks.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Feb 12 21:08:49 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:08:49 -0300
Subject: Pixel control
References: <880fa1d41002041457v44b7c4ddobe79db5fc7c9ebd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<880fa1d41002121112r4e8c1550xf32cdea17a2bfeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.u71mwzoax6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>

En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:12:37 -0300, joao abrantes  
<senhor.abrantes at gmail.com> escribi?:

> noone knows if it's possible? i really need this..
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:57 PM, joao abrantes  
> <senhor.abrantes at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone. For example i am using a screen resolution of 800x600  
>> is it
>> possible to make python control the color of the pixels? For example  
>> paint
>> the pixel (100,200) in red! And it would stay red when i am seeing a
>> webpage, a movie, playing a game... etc..

First investigate how you could do such thing using whichever technology  
is needed, and only then, ask how you could do *that* in Python.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gre1600 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 21:18:26 2010
From: gre1600 at gmail.com (felix gao)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:18:26 -0800
Subject: ConfigParser is not parsing
Message-ID: <fb5c35f01002121818tcb81242sdf572cdf296d468b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am trying to get the some configuration file read in by Python, however,
after the read command it return a list with the filename that I passed in.
what is going on?

Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Jul  7 2009, 23:51:51)
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import ConfigParser
>>> p = ConfigParser.SafeConfigParser()
>>> cfg = p.read("S3Files.conf")
>>> cfg
['S3Files.conf']


 cat S3Files.conf
[main]
taskName=FileConfigDriver
lastProcessed=2010-01-31
dateFromat=%Y-%m-%d
skippingValue=86400
skippingInterval=seconds

Thanks in advance.
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From rantingrick at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 21:23:46 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:23:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<mailman.2322.1265836491.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkvams$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<hkvtsq$vce$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2347.1265862101.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl02sa$3co$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2375.1265904116.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<hl 2fcd$s7f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr> 
	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2477.1266022127.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl4v6f$bh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <5e12bb21-f1bc-4b43-a6ed-650d1c018e5d@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

This entire thread has imploded like a neutron star into an infantile
debate that only Caddie Couric, Bill O Reilly, and everyone on PMS-NBC
can hold a candle to! The only post i enjoyed was Steve Howes!

>From my unique perspective of not really knowing (or for that matter)
really caring about any of you i can say *some* of you have most
undoubly shown your true colors in this thread!

First of all, we all know how D Aprano has such an unfettered ego
problem. I myself have been the victom of his insults but
simultaniously also found them quite enjoyable (at times) I'd classify
Steven d'Aprano as a "well informed" arsehole with an inner clown
trying to escape.

Then there is "alex23". The only sockpuppet (of many suspects within
this group) that i can 100 percent prove and of whom i knew sooner or
later would come along for his chance at trolling. Just look at his GG
cache and you will see 99% of his post are argmentitve, abusive
trolls! He's a fish that waits for threads like these just so he can
flop around!

As for Alf, no he is not *tecnically* right about the definition of
"ad homine" but that *really* doesn't matter. He has (time and time
again) been personally attacked by some of the more "supposedly
respected" people in this group. And as always the roaches start
coming out of the woodwork in a most "pathetic puppy dog" way. What
would you puppets do if there were no one to pull your strings?

But the most nortoriuos behavior of all belongs to none other that the
PSF chairman himself! Yes "Steve Holden", you should be ashamed of
yourself! Your attacks have been more amd more destructive over the
past year or so. Even if your behavoir could "somehow" be justified
how can someone in your position lead the PSF and act as such an
infintile way? I am very ashamed of you Steve and you really owe Alf
(and the community at large) an apology although i doubt it will
happen because then your own people will turn against you.

I have documented the bad behavours of certain "pythonistas" on this
group for some time now. And my original assumtions that only a
handful of people really follow this group. Maybe one day we will have
a fair playing feild for all but sadly it looks to be more like a pipe
dream!

Sleep well kids!


From darkrho at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 21:28:32 2010
From: darkrho at gmail.com (Rolando Espinoza La Fuente)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:28:32 -0400
Subject: ConfigParser is not parsing
In-Reply-To: <fb5c35f01002121818tcb81242sdf572cdf296d468b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fb5c35f01002121818tcb81242sdf572cdf296d468b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4eca3f41002121828x494c3dere60e9c96b71a27ef@mail.gmail.com>

read() does not return the config object

>>> import ConfigParser
>>> config = ConfigParser.SafeConfigParser()
>>> config.read('S3Files.conf')
['S3Files.conf']
>>> config.sections()
['main']
>>> config.get('main', 'taskName')
'FileConfigDriver'

Regards,

Rolando Espinoza La fuente
www.rolandoespinoza.info



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:18 PM, felix gao <gre1600 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am trying to get the some configuration file read in by Python, however,
> after the read command it return a list with the filename that I passed in.
> what is going on?
> Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Jul ?7 2009, 23:51:51)
> [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import ConfigParser
>>>> p = ConfigParser.SafeConfigParser()
>>>> cfg = p.read("S3Files.conf")
>>>> cfg
> ['S3Files.conf']
>
> ?cat S3Files.conf
> [main]
> taskName=FileConfigDriver
> lastProcessed=2010-01-31
> dateFromat=%Y-%m-%d
> skippingValue=86400
> skippingInterval=seconds
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From twistedphrame at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 22:57:08 2010
From: twistedphrame at gmail.com (Jordan Apgar)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:57:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: fork vs threading.Thread
Message-ID: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to run two servers in the same program at once.  Here are
the two:
class TftpServJ(Thread):
    def __init__(self, ip, root, port=69, debug = False ):
        Thread.__init__(self)
        setup stuff here

    def run(self):
        try:
            self.server.listen(self.ip, self.port)
        except KeyboardInterrupt:
            pass

and
class XMLServer(Thread):
    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key):
        Thread.__init__(self)
         setup stuff

    def run(self):
        self.server.serve_forever()


I call them as:
tftpserv = TftpServJ(host, "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/xmlrpc_server/
server")
tftpserv.run()
xmlserv = XMLServer(host, port, HostID, key)
xmlserv.run()


it seems that tftpserv runs but wont go on to spawn xmlserv as well.
do I need to fork if I want both these to run at the same time?  It
was my impression that by using Thread execution in the main program
would continue.





From sccolbert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 23:15:37 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:15:37 -0500
Subject: fork vs threading.Thread
In-Reply-To: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002122015g4786d0e8g7993dd4433b1bba8@mail.gmail.com>

dont call the .run() method, call the .start() method which is defined the
Thread class (and should NOT be overridden).

tftpserv.start()

xmlserv.start()



On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Jordan Apgar <twistedphrame at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm trying to run two servers in the same program at once.  Here are
> the two:
> class TftpServJ(Thread):
>    def __init__(self, ip, root, port=69, debug = False ):
>        Thread.__init__(self)
>        setup stuff here
>
>    def run(self):
>        try:
>            self.server.listen(self.ip, self.port)
>        except KeyboardInterrupt:
>            pass
>
> and
> class XMLServer(Thread):
>    def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key):
>        Thread.__init__(self)
>         setup stuff
>
>    def run(self):
>        self.server.serve_forever()
>
>
> I call them as:
> tftpserv = TftpServJ(host, "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/xmlrpc_server/
> server")
> tftpserv.run()
> xmlserv = XMLServer(host, port, HostID, key)
> xmlserv.run()
>
>
> it seems that tftpserv runs but wont go on to spawn xmlserv as well.
> do I need to fork if I want both these to run at the same time?  It
> was my impression that by using Thread execution in the main program
> would continue.
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 12 23:25:23 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 05:25:23 +0100
Subject: fork vs threading.Thread
In-Reply-To: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <ecc6318c-66cf-419f-ab8c-53cc38cf1079@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl59fr$gm2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Jordan Apgar:
> I'm trying to run two servers in the same program at once.  Here are
> the two:
> class TftpServJ(Thread):
>     def __init__(self, ip, root, port=69, debug = False ):
>         Thread.__init__(self)
>         setup stuff here
> 
>     def run(self):
>         try:
>             self.server.listen(self.ip, self.port)
>         except KeyboardInterrupt:
>             pass
> 
> and
> class XMLServer(Thread):
>     def __init__(self, host, port, hostid, rsa_key):
>         Thread.__init__(self)
>          setup stuff
> 
>     def run(self):
>         self.server.serve_forever()
> 
> 
> I call them as:
> tftpserv = TftpServJ(host, "/home/twistedphrame/Desktop/xmlrpc_server/
> server")
> tftpserv.run()
> xmlserv = XMLServer(host, port, HostID, key)
> xmlserv.run()

Here you're just calling the tftpserv.run method directly, not on a separate thread.

So it blocks until it's finished (which probably is never?).

Instead, try using

   tftpserv.start()


According to the docs, "It [the start method] must be called at most once per 
thread object. It arranges for the object?s run() method to be invoked in a 
separate thread of control."

You may have to decide on how you want your program to terminate, if you want that.



> 
> 
> it seems that tftpserv runs but wont go on to spawn xmlserv as well.
> do I need to fork if I want both these to run at the same time?  It
> was my impression that by using Thread execution in the main program
> would continue.

See above.

Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From nagle at animats.com  Sat Feb 13 00:16:51 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:16:51 -0800
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<402ac982-0750-4977-adb2-602b19149d81@m24g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<hkv6u5$f53$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b7631ee$0$1638$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

kj wrote:

>>> =A0 x =3D '%s' % y
>>> =A0 x =3D '%s' % z
>>> =A0 print y
>>> =A0 print z
>>> =A0 print y, z

     Bear in mind that most Python implementations assume the "console"
only handles ASCII.  So "print" output is converted to ASCII, which
can fail. (Actually, all modern Windows and Linux systems support
Unicode consoles, but Python somehow doesn't get this.)

				John Nagle


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sat Feb 13 00:28:03 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:28:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: pyparsing wrong output
References: <692c428f1002120541n6b3aabb0jb62c50f90715f38e@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2474.1266021681.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <879e832b-e211-4bfd-a239-40b583a0a1d1@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 6:41?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-... at yahoo.com.ar>
wrote:
> En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:41:40 -0300, Eknath Venkataramani ?
> <eknath.i... at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
> > I am trying to write a parser in pyparsing.
> > Help Me.http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177078/is the code and this is ?
> > input
> > file:http://paste.pocoo.org/show/177076/.
> > I get output as:
> > <generator object at 0xb723b80c>
>
> There is nothing wrong with pyparsing here. scanString() returns a ?
> generator, like this:
>
> py> g = (x for x in range(20) if x % 3 == 1)
> py> g
> <generator object <genexpr> at 0x00E50D78>
>
Unfortunately, your grammar doesn't match the input text, so your
generator doesn't return anything.

I think you are taking sort of brute force approach to this problem,
and you need to think a little more abstractly.  You can't just pick a
fragment and then write an expression for it, and then the next and
then stitch them together - well you *can* but it helps to think both
abstract and concrete at the same time.

With the exception of your one key of "\'", this is a pretty basic
recursive grammar.  Recursive grammars are a little complicated to
start with, so I'll start with a non-recursive part.  And I'll work
more bottom-up or inside-out.

Let's start by looking at these items:

    count => 8,
    baajaar => 0.87628353,
    kiraae => 0.02341598,
    lii => 0.02178813,
    adr => 0.01978462,
    gyiimn => 0.01765590,

Each item has a name (which you called "eng", so I'll keep that
expression), a '=>' and *something*.  In the end, we won't really care
about the '=>' strings, they aren't really part of the keys or the
associated values, they are just delimiting strings - they are
important during parsing, but afterwards we don't really care about
them.  So we'll start with a pyparsing expression for this:

    keyval = eng + Suppress('=>') + something

Sometimes, the something is an integer, sometimes it's a floating
point number.  I'll define some more generic forms for these than your
original number, and a separate expression for a real number:

    integer = Combine(Optional('-') + Word(nums))
    realnum = Combine(Optional('-') + Word(nums) + '.' + Word(nums))

When we parse for these two, we need to be careful to check for a
realnum before an integer, so that we don't accidentally parse the
leading of "3.1415" as the integer "3".

    something = realnum | integer

So now we can parse this fragment using a delimitedList expression
(which takes care of the intervening commas, and also suppresses them
from the results:

    filedata = """
        count => 8,
        baajaar => 0.87628353,
        kiraae => 0.02341598,
        lii => 0.02178813,
        adr => 0.01978462,
        gyiimn => 0.01765590,"""
    print delimitedList(keyval).parseString(filedata)

Gives:
    ['count', '8', 'baajaar', '0.87628353', 'kiraae', '0.02341598',
     'lii', '0.02178813', 'adr', '0.01978462', 'gyiimn', '0.01765590']

Right off the bat, we see that we want a little more structure to
these results, so that the keys and values are grouped naturally by
the parser.  The easy way to do this is with Group, as in:

    keyval = Group(eng + Suppress('=>') + something)

With this one change, we now get:

    [['count', '8'], ['baajaar', '0.87628353'],
     ['kiraae', '0.02341598'], ['lii', '0.02178813'],
     ['adr', '0.01978462'], ['gyiimn', '0.01765590']]

Now we need to add the recursive part of your grammar.  A nested input
looks like:

    confident => {
      count => 4,
      trans => {
        ashhvsht => 0.75100505,
        phraarmnbh => 0.08341708,
        },
    },

So in addition to integers and reals, our "something" could also be a
nested list of keyvals:

    something = realnum | integer | (lparen + delimitedList(keyval) +
rparen)

This is *almost* right, with just a couple of tweaks:
- the list of keyvals may have a comma after the last item before the
closing '}'
- we really want to suppress the opening and closing braces (lparen
and rparen)
- for similar structure reasons, we'll enclose the list of keyvals in
a Group to retain the data hierarchy

    lparen,rparen = map(Suppress, "{}")
    something = realnum | integer |
        Group(lparen + delimitedList(keyval) + Optional(',') + rparen)

The recursive problem is that we have defined keyval using something,
and something using keyval.  You can't do that in Python.  So we use
the pyparsing class Forward to "forward" declare something:

    something = Forward()
    keyval = Group(eng + Suppress('=>') + something)

To define something as a Forward, we use the '<<' shift operator:

    something << (realnum | integer |
        Group(lparen + delimitedList(keyval) + Optional(',') +
rparen))

Our grammar now looks like:

    lparen,rparen = map(Suppress, "{}")

    something = Forward()
    keyval = Group(eng + Suppress('=>') + something)
    something << (realnum | integer |
        Group(lparen + delimitedList(keyval) + Optional(',') +
rparen))

To parse your entire input file, use a delimitedList(keyval)

    results = delimitedList(keyval).parseString(filedata)

(There is one problem - one of your keynames is "\'".  I don't know if
this is a typo or intentional.  If you need to accommodate even this
as a keyname, just change your definition of eng to Word(alphas
+r"\'").)

Now if I parse your original string, I get (using the pprint module to
format the results):

    [['markets',
      [['count', '8'],
       ['trans',
        [['baajaar', '0.87628353'],
         ['kiraae', '0.02341598'],
         ['lii', '0.02178813'],
         ['adr', '0.01978462'],
         ['gyiimn', '0.01765590'],
         ['baaaaromn', '0.01765590'],
         ['sdk', '0.01728024'],
         ['kaanuun', '0.00613574'],
         ',']],
       ',']],
     ['confident',
      [['count', '4'],
       ['trans',
        [['ashhvsht', '0.75100505'],
         ['phraarmnbh', '0.08341708'],
         ['athmvishhvaas', '0.08090452'],
         ['milte', '0.03768845'],
         ['utnii', '0.02110553'],
         ['anaa', '0.01432161'],
         ['jitne', '0.01155779'],
         ',']],
       ',']],
     ['consumers',
      [['count', '34'],
       ['trans',
        [['upbhokhtaaomn', '0.48493883'],
         ['upbhokhtaa', '0.27374792'],
         ['zrurtomn', '0.02753605'],
         ['suuchnaa', '0.02707965'],
         ['ghraahkomn', '0.02580174'],
         ['ne', '0.02574089'],
         ["\\'", '0.01947301'],
         ['jnmt', '0.01527414'],
         ',']],
       ',']]]

But there is one more card up pyparsing's sleeve.  Just as your
original parser used "english" to apply a results name to your keys,
it would be nice if our parser would return not a list of key-value
pairs, but an actual dict-like object.  Pyparsing's Dict class
enhances the results in just this way.  Use Dict to wrap our
repetitive structures, and it will automatically define results names
for us, reading the first element of each group as the key, and the
remaining items in the group as the value:

    something << (realnum | integer |
        Dict(lparen + delimitedList(keyval) +
                Optional(',').suppress() + rparen))

    results = Dict(delimitedList(keyval)).parseString(filedata)
    print results.dump()

Gives this hierarchical structure:

- confident:
  - count: 4
  - trans:
    - anaa: 0.01432161
    - ashhvsht: 0.75100505
    - athmvishhvaas: 0.08090452
    - jitne: 0.01155779
    - milte: 0.03768845
    - phraarmnbh: 0.08341708
    - utnii: 0.02110553
- consumers:
  - count: 34
  - trans:
    - \': 0.01947301
    - ghraahkomn: 0.02580174
    - jnmt: 0.01527414
    - ne: 0.02574089
    - suuchnaa: 0.02707965
    - upbhokhtaa: 0.27374792
    - upbhokhtaaomn: 0.48493883
    - zrurtomn: 0.02753605
- markets:
  - count: 8
  - trans:
    - adr: 0.01978462
    - baaaaromn: 0.01765590
    - baajaar: 0.87628353
    - gyiimn: 0.01765590
    - kaanuun: 0.00613574
    - kiraae: 0.02341598
    - lii: 0.02178813
    - sdk: 0.01728024

You can access these fields by name like dict elements:

    print results.keys()
    print results["confident"].keys()
    print results["confident"]["trans"]["jitne"]

If the names are valid Python identifiers (which "\'" is *not*), you
can access their fields like attributes of an object:

    print results.confident.trans.jitne
    for k in results.keys():
        print k, results[k].count

Prints:

    ['confident', 'markets', 'consumers']
    ['count', 'trans']
    0.01155779
    0.01155779
    confident 4
    markets 8
    consumers 34

I've posted the full program at http://pyparsing.pastebin.com/f1d0e2182.

Welcome to pyparsing!

-- Paul



From nagle at animats.com  Sat Feb 13 00:48:30 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 21:48:30 -0800
Subject: Need debugging knowhow for my creeping Unicodephobia
In-Reply-To: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hkv09q$6vd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b763959$0$1633$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

kj wrote:
> Some people have mathphobia.  I'm developing a wicked case of
> Unicodephobia.
> 
> I have read a *ton* of stuff on Unicode.  It doesn't even seem all
> that hard.  Or so I think.  Then I start writing code, and WHAM:
> 
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc2 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

    First, you haven't told us what platform you're on.  Windows?  Linux? 
Something else?

    If you're on Windows, and running Python from the command line, try
"cmd /u" before running Python. This will get you a Windows console that
will print Unicode.  Python recognizes this, and "print" calls will
go out to the console in Unicode, which will then print the correct
characters if they're in the font being used by the Windows console.
Most European languages are covered in the standard font.

    If you're using IDLE, or some Python debugger, it may need to be
told to have its window use Unicode.

					John Nagle


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 01:32:45 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<m28wb35y3u.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<3d900751-44e8-4335-a812-3dd0d7b4496f@m4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<m24olq5iat.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
	<m2zl3i3xvf.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net> 
	<96353030-0e0c-4035-ae4a-5ab475251d4b@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2356.1265879453.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a78fe0af-15bd-4dd4-8cc6-5b68377262ef@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 4:10?am, Tim Golden <m... at timgolden.me.uk> wrote:
> On 10/02/2010 22:55, T wrote:
>
> > Great suggestions once again - I did verify that it was at least
> > running the plink.exe binary when under LocalSystem by having the
> > service run "plink.exe> ?C:\plinkoutput.txt" - this worked fine. ?And,
> > as I mentioned, it's now working just fine when running under a
> > regular admin account. ?So, I think that's going to be my solution to
> > avoid any further issues. ?My best guess at this point (as you
> > mentioned), is that plink.exe is doing _something_ network-related
> > that LocalSystem doesn't have the privileges to do - what exactly it
> > is, I have no idea. ?I may play around with it some more later, but
> > running the service under an admin account should be a perfectly
> > acceptable solution.
>
> > Also, I will be writing other Python apps that the service will be
> > executing - so it goes without saying that I'll be including a log to
> > file option :) ?Thanks again for all your guys' help!
>
> I'm not sure if this has been said already, but a reasonably common
> approach to services is to create a user specifically for the
> service and grant it exactly the privs / perms it needs (once you
> work out what they are). You then assign it a generated password,
> eg a GUID which you don't even try to remember: simply cut-and-paste
> it in. Then create the service to run under that user.
>
> That way you don't have the service running under
> some local Administrator account with the associated risk
> of its being subverted and gaining more control than you
> want. Nor do you have it running as a real user whose
> password might change for any reason, leaving you with
> a service which won't start up.
>
> I don't remember at this moment whether such a user's profile
> is automatically loaded in the process when the service starts
> or whether you have to do the LoadUserProfile thing.
>
> TJG

Tim - thanks, that's the route I'm going to go.  I've created separate
accounts for services before, and there's no question that's what I
have to do in this case. I'm still having some issues running some
commands (such as one that takes a screenshot), even as an admin user,
but I think this is more due to the fact that it's trying to interact
with the Desktop..so there may be no good solution.

Btw great site..can't tell you how many times I've gone back to it.
Keep up the great work!



From misceverything at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 01:36:44 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:36:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Commands From Windows Service
References: <87c04446-62f9-49a6-904a-e33deca8f076@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl109m$fos$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <10b628f5-0b85-46c4-b2ef-2a8579c10162@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 8:21?am, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
wrote:
> On 02/07/10 19:02, T wrote:
>
> > I have a script, which runs as a Windows service under the LocalSystem
> > account, that I wish to have execute some commands. ?Specifically, the
> > program will call plink.exe to create a reverse SSH tunnel. ?Right now
> > I'm using subprocess.Popen to do so. ?When I run it interactively via
> > an admin account, all is well. ?However, when I'm running it via
> > service, no luck. ?I'm assuming this is to do with the fact that it's
> > trying to run under the LocalSystem account, which is failing. ?What
> > would be the best way around this? ?Thanks!
>
> All being said about LS account not having the appropriate rights to
> access the necessary devices/files.
>
> Could it be so simple that the network is plain simply not available at
> all? For wireless connections I believe the connection/authentication by
> default is made in user space. I would save the output of an ipconfig
> run as the LS account to a file and see what is happening.
> Perhaps followed by a ping.
>
> --
> mph

Martin - another part of the program sends an email back to a
specified user, and that works, so LocalSystem must at least have some
network access.  From the testing I've done so far, seems like there's
just some grey area (which I haven't completely figured out yet) of
network-related tasks that LS just can't do.  I'd love to know what
this is, but so far the solution I have is just to create another user
and have the service use that..


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Feb 13 02:01:39 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:01:39 +0000
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 19:21:22 -0500, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
wrote:

> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount
> of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint
> low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine,
> python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly
> only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory
> of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
> 
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I
> typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me
> nothing I can use...

A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 64-bit CPU
and OS.

If you're stuck with a 32-bit system, you really need to figure out how to
limit the amount of data which is kept in memory at any one time.



From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 02:33:09 2010
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:33:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How do you implement a Progress Bar
Message-ID: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

I would really appreciate some help with this.  I'm fairly new to
using classes...What am I doing wrong? All I get is a blank window. I
can't seem to figure out how to initialize this Progress Bar.

Thanks,
Jonathan



##############################file Meter.py####################
from Tkinter import *

class Meter(Frame):
	'''A simple progress bar widget.'''
	def __init__(self, master, fillcolor='orchid1', text='',value=0.0,
**kw):
		Frame.__init__(self, master, bg='white', width=350,height=20)
		self.configure(**kw)
		self._c = Canvas(self, bg=self['bg'],width=self['width'],
height=self['height'],highlightthickness=0, relief='flat',bd=0)
		self._c.pack(fill='x', expand=1)
		self._r = self._c.create_rectangle(0, 0, 0, int(self['height']),
fill=fillcolor, width=0)
		self._t = self._c.create_text(int(self['width'])/2,
int(self['height'])/2, text='')
		self.set(value, text)

	def set(self, value=0.0, text=None):
		#make the value failsafe:
		if value < 0.0:
			value = 0.0
		elif value > 1.0:
			value = 1.0
		if text == None:
		#if no text is specified get the default percentage string:
			text = str(int(round(100 * value))) + ' %'
			self._c.coords(self._r, 0, 0, int(self['width']) * value,
int(self['height']))
			self._c.itemconfigure(self._t, text=text)



root=Tk()
f=Meter(root)
for i in range(100):
	f.set(i,"Hello")
	print i
mainloop()


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 02:54:21 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:54:21 +0100
Subject: How do you implement a Progress Bar
In-Reply-To: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl5lnl$tcs$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* J Wolfe:
> I would really appreciate some help with this.  I'm fairly new to
> using classes...What am I doing wrong? All I get is a blank window. I
> can't seem to figure out how to initialize this Progress Bar.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> ##############################file Meter.py####################
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> class Meter(Frame):
> 	'''A simple progress bar widget.'''
> 	def __init__(self, master, fillcolor='orchid1', text='',value=0.0,
> **kw):
> 		Frame.__init__(self, master, bg='white', width=350,height=20)
> 		self.configure(**kw)
> 		self._c = Canvas(self, bg=self['bg'],width=self['width'],
> height=self['height'],highlightthickness=0, relief='flat',bd=0)
> 		self._c.pack(fill='x', expand=1)
> 		self._r = self._c.create_rectangle(0, 0, 0, int(self['height']),
> fill=fillcolor, width=0)
> 		self._t = self._c.create_text(int(self['width'])/2,
> int(self['height'])/2, text='')
> 		self.set(value, text)
> 
> 	def set(self, value=0.0, text=None):
> 		#make the value failsafe:
> 		if value < 0.0:
> 			value = 0.0
> 		elif value > 1.0:
> 			value = 1.0
> 		if text == None:
> 		#if no text is specified get the default percentage string:
> 			text = str(int(round(100 * value))) + ' %'
> 			self._c.coords(self._r, 0, 0, int(self['width']) * value,
> int(self['height']))
> 			self._c.itemconfigure(self._t, text=text)
> 
> 
> 
> root=Tk()
> f=Meter(root)

At his point the Meter widget has been created, but it's still invisible.

To make it visible you have to register it with a layout manager (in 
tkinter-speak a "geometry" manager).

A layout manager for a widget X is responsible for placing child widgets of X.

The easiest is to add, at this point,

   f.pack()

which uses the packing layout manager of the parent widget of f (not sure why 
the design is like this, but f.pack() forwards up to the parent's layout 
manager). You can add various optional parameters. Or use other layout mgr.

Take care that all child widgets of a given parent widget use the same layout 
manager, otherwise the typical result is a hang.


> for i in range(100):
> 	f.set(i,"Hello")
> 	print i

This will probably happen too fast to see, before the window is presented.

One idea might be to add a few buttons for testing things.


> mainloop()


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 03:22:19 2010
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:22:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How do you implement a Progress Bar
References: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl5lnl$tcs$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <1a5d5ff2-bd54-4a2f-a74b-b1b89dd92bc8@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Thank you Alf! Here I thought it was something wrong with my class
call, but it turns out I just needed to pack f and then use
root.update() in the loop :-) I really appreciate your help!


From half.italian at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 03:25:32 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:25:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How do you implement a Progress Bar
References: <0861e000-b511-4a01-8fa4-727e23e996f0@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <378c7809-1f69-4516-a4ef-b9eff4d1790a@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 11:33?pm, J Wolfe <vorticitywo... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would really appreciate some help with this. ?I'm fairly new to
> using classes...What am I doing wrong? All I get is a blank window. I
> can't seem to figure out how to initialize this Progress Bar.
>

Study and hack on this: http://uucode.com/texts/pylongopgui/pyguiapp.html

~Sean


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 04:30:37 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:30:37 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <5e12bb21-f1bc-4b43-a6ed-650d1c018e5d@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl24sk$75i$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<4b75235b$0$23469$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hl4ddp$f4e$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<0385c5f3$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4p7m$pnh$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2477.1266022127.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl4v6f$bh8$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<5e12bb21-f1bc-4b43-a6ed-650d1c018e5d@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002130130x61516383va871d4018d352014@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:23 PM, rantingrick <rantingrick at gmail.com> wrote:
[blah, blah, blah]

First of all, we all know how D Aprano has such an unfettered ego
> problem.


[blah, blah, blah]

And as always the roaches start
> coming out of the woodwork in a most "pathetic puppy dog" way. What
> would you puppets do if there were no one to pull your strings?
>

[blah, blah, blah] (I'd claim an ad hominem attack, but that's just boring
these days)


> But the most nortoriuos behavior of all belongs to none other that the
> PSF chairman himself! Yes "Steve Holden", you should be ashamed of
> yourself!


[blah, BLAH, blah]


> Your attacks have been more amd more destructive over the
> past year or so. Even if your behavoir could "somehow" be justified
> how can someone in your position lead the PSF and act as such an
> infintile way?


[blah, blah, BLAH, blah]



> I am very ashamed of you Steve and you really owe Alf
> (and the community at large) an apology although i doubt it will
> happen because then your own people will turn against you.
>

Blah.

Blah.

Blah.

Grow up.

I've deliberately exited the real topic of this thread, because its clearly
degenerated to complete nonsense; while in this thread Alf argues for a
certain dogmatic theoretical "Standard" terminology that clearly many people
disagree with (supporting the 'standard' continually with a certain
language's reference manual, which by definition makes it not-standard, or
you wouldn't need to quote a certain language0, and in another he argues for
another position-- and and speaks in support of standard and understood
terminology, the two positions together are laughable nonsense. To this he
will, of course, again declare that I am simply lying.  This very
declaration clearly proves his own absurdity: you can argue in a circle for
infinity, but when you start spouting nonsense about how those opposing you
are mere liars-- ESPECIALLY-- when you have been arguing about how you have
been the terrible victim of ad hominem attacks-- your own hypocrisy makes
your words meaningless.

I've been tempted to re-enter the actual argument, its a hard one to avoid
with such clear misunderstandings held so strongly. But, I won't. Except for
my editorials here. Because I am weak. Ahem, the point is-- my chief
antagonist in the discussion has publicly stated I am a liar. This is
provably a lie unto itself, and it damns the speaker absolutely. I have
expressed my position, my thoughts, and my opinion and interpretation of my
opponents position -- and his response is, "You are a liar." or, "That is a
lie". That's a lie, a personal attack, all the while declaring his own
victimhood. You can say, "You're mistaken", but to say, "You are a liar." is
something else entirely. The chief victim of c.p.l. becomes the abuser.

Now, why am I entering this thread again? Not to discuss the issue at hand.
There's clearly no point. Alf has chosen to define language in his own way,
ignoring any weight that established industry weight might apply to such
terms. Okay. When you enter an argument of words, some people will refuse to
acknowledge their own perception of the world isn't reality. It happens.
There's no point in going forward after a certain point.

But now, this absurdity?

You are ashamed of Steve Holden for his behavior? You think he owes the
community at large an apology?

I don't mean to rise up in defense of Holden, as I'm sure he can defend
himself should he feel the need. I took offense at Alf choosing to claim the
right of defending me earlier, so I can't be a hypocrite in that.

But, really. If -this- is your position? Grow up. Seriously.

Steve Holden owes this community nothing. That which he has given should be
welcomed and he should be thanked for it. He hasn't flamed anyone; he hasn't
attacked anyone-- despite Alf's nonsense claims, though on occasion his
responses are snarky (with reason)-- he hasn't /taken/ anything from this
community. He's done far more then many in assisting people who are trying
to learn Python and embrace its community.

Frankly, how dare you claim to demand an apology for this community.

If I was to be ashamed of anyone's participation in the community, it would
be you over him. I'm not even ashamed of Alf. I don't agree with him, I
think he's got a stubborn egocentric view of terminology and semantics which
is ultimately harmful, I think he has a severe persecution complex, but
despite this-- I've seen him respond to several threads recently, helpfully,
and I don't even disagree with most of those responses.

You're just ... blabbering. Adding arbitrary, unsupported, and unsupportable
fuel to the fire to rant at some position-- how /mean/ this community is and
how /terrible/ we behave-- all without any basis at all. Except you claim
it. You document it. Gee, we're mean, mean, unhelpful people.

And no, I'm not one of "his people" who will turn on him for admitting he is
satan; if Steve Holden and I have ever been in a thread in the past -- it
was us both answering some newbie, or commenting on a topic, all
independently-- and I'm not even sure I was ever aware of it having
happened. I remember no particular conversation, ever, between him and I.

This is one of the most generally supportive technical communities I've ever
seen, even when faced with clear ignorance and people even not taking the
most basic due diligence before asking others to answer their questions. It
goes back almost a decade to when I posted more then one /really/ stupid
question to this group on some initial assumptions and thoughts-- on most
groups? Such things would be ridiculed. Here, people ask questions when the
OP's position isn't clear or if it seems they may be looking at the problem
wrong. They go out of their way to understand the use-case and details of
the question and provide solutions. They -work- to be helpful, and
supportive, with some demands-- but reasonable demands.

And you're all ashamed of our "bad behaviors".

That makes me want to say, "Well, f--- you too".

But I won't. I'll just hope you grow up and get over it and learn that hey,
communities? They are never seamless, or easy, and conflict is a part of
life. Some have very hard standards for acceptance, some try to embrace but
there's always going to be issues.

This is one of the good ones.

Deal with it.

--S
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From dino at phidev.org  Sat Feb 13 04:50:43 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:50:43 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
Message-ID: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>

Hi,

I'm looking for a module/plugin/intra-process-communication/hook system
for python. Maybe someone here could point me to some project I missed
or might have some good ideas if I end up implementing it myself.

Most systems I have found are "one to many" communications but I would
like "many to many", to clarify what I mean an *example* use-case:

        Lets say you program a wiki and like to allow different kind of
        authentications. So you create two plugins (for example one for
        OpenID and one for Shibboleth).
        
        Some time later you feel like reinventing the wheel again and
        you program a blog. Again you like to allow different ways of
        authentication and you already wrote plugins for exactly the
        same for your wiki, right?
        
With most systems now some trouble begins - the blog software would need
to have the interface/extention-points/however-you-name-it that the wiki
software defined.

The plugins you wrote probably import them from the wiki module directly
which means your blog would depend on the wiki. (?!) So where to put the
interface/[...] definition that is imported by those plugins? Create a
package/module just containing the interface? This really get
troublesome if different people wrote the wiki, the blog and another
third one a plugin.

Also it will probably break if you try to create a program that includes
(imports and uses) the wiki and the blog at the same time.

While looking for existing solutions I came across several different
implementations and approaches with different advantages and
disadvantages. To not list them all, here one representative
implementation: trac's component architecture [0] as its well but still
short documented, shares several concepts with other implementations and
I failed to see how to solve the problem described above with it.

So, what's your solution?

Thanks for reading my long mail!

Really hoping for an constructive discussion,
Florian

[0] http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracDev/ComponentArchitecture
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From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 04:53:09 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:53:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Function attributes
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3307e656-f2da-424e-96ea-1166f05835b5@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 5:59?am, Muhammad Alkarouri <malkaro... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> What is the simplest way to access the attributes of a function from
> inside it, other than using its explicit name?
> In a function like f below:
>
> def f(*args):
> ? ? f.args = args
> ? ? print args
>
> is there any other way?
> I am guessing the next question will be: should I really care? It just
> feels like there should be a way, but I am not able to verbalise a
> valid one at the moment, sorry.
>

You should care. :)

You can avoid referring to f twice by using an inner method with a
name that is less subject to change or influence from outside forces:

    def countdown_function_that_might_get_renamed(
            n,
            preamble,
            postamble):
        def recurse(n):
            print preamble, n, postamble
            if n:
                recurse(n-1)
        recurse(n)

    countdown_function_that_might_get_renamed(10, "before", "after")

Note that the example makes the recursive call more concise, by
avoiding the need to resend the parameters that don't change during
the recursion ("preamble" and "postamble").  Of course, you do trade
off some terseness with the inner method, but it's only two lines of
code and one level of indentation.

For a somewhat related discussion see this short thread:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/197221f82f7c247b

In particular see Gabriel's response to me.  The fact that you are
saving off f.args makes me think that you are solving a problem
similar to mine, but I could be wrong.



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Feb 13 05:03:20 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:03:20 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl5tch$h34$00$1@news.t-online.com>

hjebbers wrote:

> On Feb 12, 3:17 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>> hjebbers wrote:
>> > On Feb 11, 7:01 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>> >> hjebbers wrote:
>> >> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets
>> >> >> say DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more
>> >> >> info?
>>
>> >> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that
>> >> > now. I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup
>> >> > gives a CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
>> >> > (where is the bug?)
>>
>> >> In the platform-specific code ;)
>>
>> >> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and
>> >> then...
>>
>> > if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
>> > bugreport?
>>
>> A this stage a bug report would be useless. The details you have provided
>> so far don't give anyone without physical access to your machine a chance
>> to reproduce the error.
>>
>> > (because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
>> > doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)
>>
>> Indeed. The culprit may be an extension written in C that is overwriting
>> memory still in use by other parts of your program.
>>
>> Peter
> 
> No C extensions used. Definitely not.
> 
> As these crashes occur during stress tests, I go to the limits of the
> memory available.
> What strikes me is:
> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> much).

Random thoughts:

If there were not enough memory Python should give a MemoryError rather than 
segfault. 

Do both systems use the same memory layout (i. e. 32 or 64bit OS, 16 or 32 
bit unicode)?

Try an alpha of Python 2.7. If you're lucky "your" bug was found 'n' fixed 
independently.

Peter


From daniele.esposti at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 05:07:04 2010
From: daniele.esposti at gmail.com (Expo)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:07:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: bsddb version mysmatch between win32 and linux
Message-ID: <18361bde-a134-478f-b670-87c16fd57028@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Hi guys,

I found an incompatibility in the bsddb library shipped with Python
which is a different version between the win32 release and the linux
release.
This happend using Python 2.6.2 on win32 and OpenSuse 11.2.
To reproduce this problem, create a bsddb file under win32 with this
code:

import shelve

f = shelve.open( "test.bin" )
f["test"] = "test"
f.sync()
f.close()

copy test.bin in the OpenSuse system and try to open it:

import shelve

f = shelve.open( "test.bin" )
print f["test"]

and you get this traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/shelve.py", line 234, in open
return DbfilenameShelf(filename, flag, protocol, writeback)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/shelve.py", line 218, in __init__
Shelf.__init__(self, anydbm.open(filename, flag), protocol, writeback)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/anydbm.py", line 83, in open
return mod.open(file, flag, mode)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dbhash.py", line 19, in open
return bsddb.hashopen(file, flag, mode)
File "/usr/lib/python2.6/bsddb/__init__.py", line 361, in hashopen
d.open(file, db.DB_HASH, flags, mode)
bsddb.db.DBInvalidArgError: (22, 'Invalid argument -- ./test.bin:
unsupported hash version: 9')

I don't know yet if the problem is related to OpenSuse or to the
Python linux distribution.

How I can resolve this ?


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 05:29:48 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:29:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<hl2f4n$pt1$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-3348b72b7e9a@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D1DE7ED554F0rtwfreenetREMOVEcouk@216.196.109.145>
Message-ID: <b795dd86-d458-43b8-bff1-eb9d7069c36f@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 12, 11:46?pm, Rob Williscroft <r... at rtw.me.uk> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote in news:2864756a-292b-4138-abfd-
> 3348b72b7... at u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com in comp.lang.python:
>
> > the information about the error is a windows dump.
>
> This may help:
>
> #http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms680621(VS.85).aspx
>
> SEM_FAILCRITICALERRORS = 1
> SEM_NOALIGNMENTFAULTEXCEPT = 4
> SEM_NOGPFAULTERRORBOX = 4
> SEM_NOOPENFILEERRORBOX = 8
>
> import ctypes
> from ctypes.wintypes import UINT
>
> SetErrorMode = ctypes.windll.kernel32.SetErrorMode
> SetErrorMode.restype = UINT
> SetErrorMode.argtypes = ( UINT,)
>
> Then putting:
>
> SetErrorMode( SEM_FAILCRITICALERRORS | SEM_NOGPFAULTERRORBOX )
>
> at the start of you programme, should stop the "Critical Error" dialog
> box you are seeing and you may get a chance to see a traceback.
>
> Rob.

Hi Rob,

thanks.
I tried this, but did not work for me.

henk-jan


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 05:49:01 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:49:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl5tch$h34$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <f9d6f570-e5a5-40d5-aa38-5253a4a53d0c@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 11:03?am, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 3:17 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> >> hjebbers wrote:
> >> > On Feb 11, 7:01 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> >> >> hjebbers wrote:
> >> >> > On Feb 11, 5:45 pm, M3RT <mgul... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> The problem may be related to how you treat the EDI file or lets
> >> >> >> say DATA. Also your coding style is important. Can you provide more
> >> >> >> info?
>
> >> >> > Yes, a whole lot more; but I do not want to bother you with that
> >> >> > now. I was just wondering if it is possible that the same setup
> >> >> > gives a CRASH! on windows and just works on linux.
> >> >> > (where is the bug?)
>
> >> >> In the platform-specific code ;)
>
> >> >> Even on alt.haruspicy they cannot do much without a liver now and
> >> >> then...
>
> >> > if it is in the platform-specific code should I make this into a
> >> > bugreport?
>
> >> A this stage a bug report would be useless. The details you have provided
> >> so far don't give anyone without physical access to your machine a chance
> >> to reproduce the error.
>
> >> > (because the crash does not appear at the same place in my code (when
> >> > doing the same test-run) it will be quite hard to point down....)
>
> >> Indeed. The culprit may be an extension written in C that is overwriting
> >> memory still in use by other parts of your program.
>
> >> Peter
>
> > No C extensions used. Definitely not.
>
> > As these crashes occur during stress tests, I go to the limits of the
> > memory available.
> > What strikes me is:
> > 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> > 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> > much).
>
> Random thoughts:
>
> If there were not enough memory Python should give a MemoryError rather than
> segfault.
>
> Do both systems use the same memory layout (i. e. 32 or 64bit OS, 16 or 32
> bit unicode)?
bot use 32bits;
but the windows box uses 16 bits unicode, on linux 32bits unicode is
used.
the memory used by my program is for the larger part unicode strings.
....well, but that makes the better performance of linux even
stranger...
>
> Try an alpha of Python 2.7. If you're lucky "your" bug was found 'n' fixed
> independently.
well...that's what I thought for version 2.6 ;-)
(I run into this crash a longer time ago)
but seriously, I'll try this.

kind regards,
henk-jan
>
> Peter



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 05:50:49 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:50:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 10:25?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > What strikes me is:
> > 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> > 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> > much).
>
> ? ? ? ? Which on its own does not mean much.
>
> ? ? ? ? Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
> to page swapping as soon.
>
> ? ? ? ? There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
> user/1GB OS mode --

hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)


> it is mainly meant for server machines where there
> won't be many disjoint OS libraries loaded, but the server applications
> need lots of data space.
>
> ? ? ? ? What split does the Linux OS use? If it give 3GB to user space,
> while you'd start to page swap much soon, you'd also have 50% more
> virtual memory that can be allocated than under Windows.
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

I will check this.....any advice on how to check this?

henk-jan


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 06:02:24 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:02:24 +0000
Subject: Function attributes
In-Reply-To: <op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
Message-ID: <hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:29:12 -0300, Arnaud Delobelle 
> <arnodel at googlemail.com> escribi?:
> 
>> I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
>> couple of days ago:
>>
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html
> 
> Ouch! I didn't see your post, nor several other earlier posts in this 
> thread. In fact, I thought mine was the *first* reply when I wrote it!
> 

It's not just me then.  I'm using Thunderbird on Windows Vista to view 
the group via gmane, and notice the earlier parts of a thread can show 
up hours or even days after the later ones.  Would something who 
understands these things be kind enough to explain why this happens, or 
at least provide the keywords needed for google, as I haven't got a clue 
where to start.

> Yes, of course, your code does exactly that without any bytecode hacks.
> 



From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:03:02 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:03:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2397.1265917367.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<34fcf680-1aa4-4835-9eba-3db3249f36b2@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<007f26f3-5310-4ed9-bb25-b467fb248825@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bb838035-fc5c-416c-877e-782e012fd971@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

to all,

thanks for the pointers so far.
if you feel the need to reproduce the crash, it's not that hard,
(downloading and installing my edi translator, install configuration
(button-click), and run.
I have a modified version (replace some *.py files) that eliminate a
lot of stuff (simpler setup, no database used, no external C-modules).
contact me for recipe and files

about me being reluctant to 'show the code':
- the crash that happens during stress tests.
- the crash occurs not always, and at different points.
- the code does runs OK on linux (which does not mean there's no bugt
in it ;-)

kind regards,
henk-jan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 13 06:24:17 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:24:17 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 13.02.10 11:50, schrieb hjebbers:
> On Feb 13, 10:25 am, Dennis Lee Bieber<wlfr... at ix.netcom.com>  wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers<hjebb... at gmail.com>
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>> What strikes me is:
>>> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
>>> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
>>> much).
>>
>>          Which on its own does not mean much.
>>
>>          Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
>> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
>> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
>> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
>> to page swapping as soon.
>>
>>          There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
>> user/1GB OS mode --
>
> hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)

You don't get it - it's about the virtual memory address space 
available. This has nothing to do with physical memory. Obviously if the 
latter runs out, the swapping will make the machine painfully slow. But 
that's another issue.


Diez


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:35:45 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:35:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0a5e5e0a-7b2c-40a9-a1d7-77a478bf88a0@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 12:24?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 13.02.10 11:50, schrieb hjebbers:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 10:25 am, Dennis Lee Bieber<wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> ?wrote:
> >> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers<hjebb... at gmail.com>
> >> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >>> What strikes me is:
> >>> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> >>> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> >>> much).
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?Which on its own does not mean much.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
> >> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
> >> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
> >> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
> >> to page swapping as soon.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
> >> user/1GB OS mode --
>
> > hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)
>
> You don't get it - it's about the virtual memory address space
> available. This has nothing to do with physical memory. Obviously if the
> latter runs out, the swapping will make the machine painfully slow. But
> that's another issue.
>
> Diez

Diez,
you are right; I misunderstood.
henk-jan


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 06:54:47 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:54:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <32835daa-ced4-4c67-b335-25b44d734674@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

I enlarged the windows page file from 750Kb to 1.5Gb .
The crash still happens.
btw, the crash does not happen at a peak memory usage.
According to windows task manager, at the moment of crash mem usage of
my program is 669kb, peak memory usage is 1.136kb

henk-jan


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 07:14:58 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:14:58 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <32835daa-ced4-4c67-b335-25b44d734674@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<32835daa-ced4-4c67-b335-25b44d734674@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl650a$1je$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* hjebbers:
> I enlarged the windows page file from 750Kb to 1.5Gb .
> The crash still happens.
> btw, the crash does not happen at a peak memory usage.
> According to windows task manager, at the moment of crash mem usage of
> my program is 669kb, peak memory usage is 1.136kb
> 
> henk-jan

Probably you meant to write "M", not "k" or "K"?

I've never managed to make much sense of the displays in Windows' Task Manager, 
if that's what you're using, but I think the mem usage it's displaying by 
default is the process' working set, or something very similar to that measure.

You can display additional columns in Task Manager, and one useful one is how 
much virtual memory is allocated,.

And perhaps then (if that's not what you're looking it already) it'll be closer 
to 2 GiB?



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 07:34:46 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:34:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e0c07ca6-a4a8-4969-a6dd-2fc54f8cea49@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 10:25?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > What strikes me is:
> > 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> > 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> > much).
>
> ? ? ? ? Which on its own does not mean much.
>
> ? ? ? ? Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
> to page swapping as soon.
>
> ? ? ? ? There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
> user/1GB OS mode -- it is mainly meant for server machines where there
> won't be many disjoint OS libraries loaded, but the server applications
> need lots of data space.
>
> ? ? ? ? What split does the Linux OS use? If it give 3GB to user space,
> while you'd start to page swap much soon, you'd also have 50% more
> virtual memory that can be allocated than under Windows.
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Hi Wulfraed,
I tried this (the 3GB switch).
But python still crashes.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Feb 13 07:48:30 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:48:30 -0500
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B769F9E.6040402@ieee.org>

hjebbers wrote:
> On Feb 13, 10:25 am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com>
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>     
>>> What strikes me is:
>>> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
>>> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
>>> much).
>>>       
>>         Which on its own does not mean much.
>>
>>         Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
>> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
>> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
>> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
>> to page swapping as soon.
>>
>>         There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
>> user/1GB OS mode --
>>     
>
> hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)
>
>
>   
>> it is mainly meant for server machines where there
>> won't be many disjoint OS libraries loaded, but the server applications
>> need lots of data space.
>>
>>         What split does the Linux OS use? If it give 3GB to user space,
>> while you'd start to page swap much soon, you'd also have 50% more
>> virtual memory that can be allocated than under Windows.
>> --
>>         Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>>         wlfr... at ix.netcom.com     HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>>     
>
> I will check this.....any advice on how to check this?
>
> henk-jan
>
>   
As I posted in recent thread on Tutor,

But the one you might want is a boot.ini option that tells the OS to 
only reserve 1gb for itself, and leave 3gb for user space.  But there 
are tradeoffs, including the need to modify an application's executable 
to take advantage of it.  And the whole system may run substantially 
slower, even when your're extended app isn't running.  See links:
  http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx
  
http://blogs.technet.com/askperf/archive/2007/03/23/memory-management-demystifying-3gb.aspx

DaveA


From eadrogue at gmx.net  Sat Feb 13 07:51:09 2010
From: eadrogue at gmx.net (Ernest =?iso-8859-1?Q?Adrogu=E9?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:51:09 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
Message-ID: <20100213125109.GA15741@doriath.local>

Hello everybody,

I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.

class MyClass(object):
	def __init__(self, input_data):
		self._data = transform_input(input_data)
	def __getitem__(self, key):
		if isinstance(key, slice):
			# return a slice of self
			pass
		else:
			# return a scalar value
			return self._data[key]

The question is how to return a slice of self.
First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
expects a different kind of input data.

Another option is

out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
out._data = self._data[key]
return out

But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.

So what is there to do? Any suggestion?

Cheers.

Ernest



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 13 08:14:29 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:14:29 -0500
Subject: Function attributes [OT]
In-Reply-To: <hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>
	<hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>

Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:29:12 -0300, Arnaud Delobelle
>> <arnodel at googlemail.com> escribi?:
>>
>>> I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
>>> couple of days ago:
>>>
>>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html
>>
>> Ouch! I didn't see your post, nor several other earlier posts in this
>> thread. In fact, I thought mine was the *first* reply when I wrote it!
> 
> It's not just me then.  I'm using Thunderbird on Windows Vista to view
> the group via gmane, and notice the earlier parts of a thread can show
> up hours or even days after the later ones.  Would something who
> understands these things be kind enough to explain why this happens, or
> at least provide the keywords needed for google, as I haven't got a clue
> where to start.
> 
There are two main channels feeding the comp.lang.python newsgroup.
Gmane is primarily a news (NNTP-based) service, though for reasons best
know to the organizers they choose to rename the standard newsgroups to
fit their own idea of how the universe should be organized, so there the
group becomes gmane.comp.python.general.

The first feed is the general interchange of articles between NNTP
servers: while this is usually a reliable interchange mechanism, an
individual server can "glitch" occasionally (by losing network
connectivity, for example, or when some part of its news support
mechanism breaks temporarily).

The second is the python-list mailing list, maintained as a part of the
python.org infrastructure (by a hard-working team of volunteers, I
should add, who get little enough credit for the sterling work they do
day in day out to keep the real information flowing and the spam out).

More recently the waters have been muddied by Google Groups, which sadly
seems at time to be so badly managed (or simply not managed?) as to make
it a principal source of spam. This surprises me, as Gmail appears to
have very effective spam filtering. Many people appear to use Google
Groups as their primary interface to newsgroups and/or mailing lists to
the extent that they believe the Groups interface to be what everyone
uses to access the list.

The task of maintaining a two-way bridge between the comp.lang.python
NNTP community and the python-list email community while filtering out
the spam and ensuring that posts aren't duplicated too often is a
difficult one. For example, I hit "reply all" to your message, and had I
not trimmed the headers my NNTP client (Thunderbird) would have sent
copies to you, to the mailing list AND to the newsgroup. Sometimes such
messages do appear twice, particularly (in my experience) to recipients
who use the email channel.

In short, these things happen because life is complicated and the
technical solutions available to disambiguate the feeds aren't perfect.
So you might consider filing the glitches under "shit happens". Speaking
personally I wouldn't have a clue how to keep this stuff going on a
daily basis at the volume level we see on this group, and I am very
grateful to everyone who does.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 08:20:15 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:20:15 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl68qn$vkt$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ernest Adrogu?:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
> 
> class MyClass(object):
> 	def __init__(self, input_data):
> 		self._data = transform_input(input_data)
> 	def __getitem__(self, key):
> 		if isinstance(key, slice):
> 			# return a slice of self
> 			pass
> 		else:
> 			# return a scalar value
> 			return self._data[key]
> 
> The question is how to return a slice of self.
> First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> expects a different kind of input data.
 >
> Another option is
> 
> out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> out._data = self._data[key]
> return out
> 
> But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.

I'd go for it anyway, because the programmer who subclasses needs to understand 
the base class. And if, say, that class has a custom _init method, and it's 
documented that that what's a subclass should override, then, OK. No problem.


> So what is there to do? Any suggestion?

An alternative can be to simply check for argument value None in the 
constructor, and if so, don't do anything.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 13 08:23:15 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:23:15 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B76A7C3.2030000@nospam.web.de>

Am 13.02.10 13:51, schrieb Ernest Adrogu?:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
>
> class MyClass(object):
> 	def __init__(self, input_data):
> 		self._data = transform_input(input_data)
> 	def __getitem__(self, key):
> 		if isinstance(key, slice):
> 			# return a slice of self
> 			pass
> 		else:
> 			# return a scalar value
> 			return self._data[key]
>
> The question is how to return a slice of self.
> First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> expects a different kind of input data.
>
> Another option is
>
> out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> out._data = self._data[key]
> return out
>
> But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.

I'd say you can't have your cake and eat it. Either let the constructors 
work with data to produce whatever state the instance really contains. 
If that's the case, go with your second solution. Potentially, you need 
to make self._data[key] some method-call that might be overridden, 
something along the lines of __getstate__, to make sure subclasses 
return all data that is relevant to them.

But if you really have child-class code that needs to be run on *every* 
object construction, then you should make input_data optional, and pass 
the transformed input in for the slice-creation, bypassing the 
transform_input.

The only other solution I can think of is to return a 
MyClassSlice-instance, which is just a view to MyClass instances, and 
restricts e.g. key-spaces.


class MyClassSlice(object):

     def __init__(self, state, slice):
         self.state = state
         self.slice = slice


     def __getitem__(self, key):
         if isinstance(key, slice):
            # create subslice & return that
            return MyClassSlice(self.state, merged_slice(key, self.slice))
         elif self.key_in_slice(key):
            return self._state[key]
         raise IndexError

     def key_in_slice(self, key):
         # this of course depends on your key-domain.


Diez


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 08:23:33 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:23:33 +0000
Subject: Function attributes [OT]
In-Reply-To: <hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl694e$pm3$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>>> En Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:29:12 -0300, Arnaud Delobelle
>>> <arnodel at googlemail.com> escribi?:
>>>
>>>> I posted an example of a decorator that does just this in this thread a
>>>> couple of days ago:
>>>>
>>>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2010-February/1235742.html
>>> Ouch! I didn't see your post, nor several other earlier posts in this
>>> thread. In fact, I thought mine was the *first* reply when I wrote it!
>> It's not just me then.  I'm using Thunderbird on Windows Vista to view
>> the group via gmane, and notice the earlier parts of a thread can show
>> up hours or even days after the later ones.  Would something who
>> understands these things be kind enough to explain why this happens, or
>> at least provide the keywords needed for google, as I haven't got a clue
>> where to start.
>>
> There are two main channels feeding the comp.lang.python newsgroup.
> Gmane is primarily a news (NNTP-based) service, though for reasons best
> know to the organizers they choose to rename the standard newsgroups to
> fit their own idea of how the universe should be organized, so there the
> group becomes gmane.comp.python.general.
> 
> The first feed is the general interchange of articles between NNTP
> servers: while this is usually a reliable interchange mechanism, an
> individual server can "glitch" occasionally (by losing network
> connectivity, for example, or when some part of its news support
> mechanism breaks temporarily).
> 
> The second is the python-list mailing list, maintained as a part of the
> python.org infrastructure (by a hard-working team of volunteers, I
> should add, who get little enough credit for the sterling work they do
> day in day out to keep the real information flowing and the spam out).
> 
> More recently the waters have been muddied by Google Groups, which sadly
> seems at time to be so badly managed (or simply not managed?) as to make
> it a principal source of spam. This surprises me, as Gmail appears to
> have very effective spam filtering. Many people appear to use Google
> Groups as their primary interface to newsgroups and/or mailing lists to
> the extent that they believe the Groups interface to be what everyone
> uses to access the list.
> 
> The task of maintaining a two-way bridge between the comp.lang.python
> NNTP community and the python-list email community while filtering out
> the spam and ensuring that posts aren't duplicated too often is a
> difficult one. For example, I hit "reply all" to your message, and had I
> not trimmed the headers my NNTP client (Thunderbird) would have sent
> copies to you, to the mailing list AND to the newsgroup. Sometimes such
> messages do appear twice, particularly (in my experience) to recipients
> who use the email channel.
> 
> In short, these things happen because life is complicated and the
> technical solutions available to disambiguate the feeds aren't perfect.
> So you might consider filing the glitches under "shit happens". Speaking
> personally I wouldn't have a clue how to keep this stuff going on a
> daily basis at the volume level we see on this group, and I am very
> grateful to everyone who does.
> 
> regards
>  Steve

Many thanks for the explanation.

Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence



From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Feb 13 09:16:31 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:16:31 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
References: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl6c79$56c$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Ernest Adrogu? wrote:

> I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
> 
> class MyClass(object):
>         def __init__(self, input_data):
>                 self._data = transform_input(input_data)
>         def __getitem__(self, key):
>                 if isinstance(key, slice):
>                         # return a slice of self
>                         pass
>                 else:
>                         # return a scalar value
>                         return self._data[key]
> 
> The question is how to return a slice of self.
> First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> expects a different kind of input data.
> 
> Another option is
> 
> out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> out._data = self._data[key]
> return out
> 
> But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.
> 
> So what is there to do? Any suggestion?

Either 

(1) make transform_input() idempotent, i. e. ensure that

transform_input(transform_input(data)) == transform_input(data)

and construct the slice with MyClass(self._data[key])

or 

(2) require it to be invertible with

inverse_transform_input(transform_input(data)) == data

and make the slice with MyClass(inverse_transform_input(self._data[key]))

Just stating the obvious...

Peter


From eadrogue at gmx.net  Sat Feb 13 09:53:20 2010
From: eadrogue at gmx.net (Ernest =?iso-8859-1?Q?Adrogu=E9?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:53:20 +0100
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
In-Reply-To: <hl6c79$56c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.2496.1266065265.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6c79$56c$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20100213145320.GA16233@doriath.local>

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your comments. I think I've got enough
information to make a decision now.

13/02/10 @ 15:16 (+0100), thus spake Peter Otten:
> Ernest Adrogu? wrote:
> 
> > I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> > The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
> > 
> > class MyClass(object):
> >         def __init__(self, input_data):
> >                 self._data = transform_input(input_data)
> >         def __getitem__(self, key):
> >                 if isinstance(key, slice):
> >                         # return a slice of self
> >                         pass
> >                 else:
> >                         # return a scalar value
> >                         return self._data[key]
> > 
> > The question is how to return a slice of self.
> > First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> > use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> > expects a different kind of input data.
> > 
> > Another option is
> > 
> > out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> > out._data = self._data[key]
> > return out
> > 
> > But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> > undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> > to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.
> > 
> > So what is there to do? Any suggestion?
> 
> Either 
> 
> (1) make transform_input() idempotent, i. e. ensure that
> 
> transform_input(transform_input(data)) == transform_input(data)
> 
> and construct the slice with MyClass(self._data[key])
> 
> or 
> 
> (2) require it to be invertible with
> 
> inverse_transform_input(transform_input(data)) == data
> 
> and make the slice with MyClass(inverse_transform_input(self._data[key]))
> 
> Just stating the obvious...
> 
> Peter
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Feb 13 10:14:58 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:14:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: concatenate fasta file
References: <62a50def-e391-4585-9a23-fb91f2e2edc8@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl6fli$d8a$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-12, PeroMHC <macmanes at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All, I have  a simple problem that I hope somebody can help with. I
> have an input file (a fasta file) that I need to edit..
>
> Input file format
>
>>name 1
> tactcatacatac
>>name 2
> acggtggcat
>>name 3
> gggtaccacgtt
>
> I need to concatenate the sequences.. make them look like
>
>>concatenated
> tactcatacatacacggtggcatgggtaccacgtt

(echo "concantenated>"; grep '^ [actg]*$' inputfile | tr -d '\n'; echo) > outputfile

-- 
Grant



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 10:26:52 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 07:26:52 -0800
Subject: Create a backslash-escaped version of a string?
References: <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl6gbs$7nd$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <aa6966f8-4dda-4e5b-ab7c-828faaff6ee3 at 36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>,
boblatest  <boblatest at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>I'd like to have control characters in a string to be converted to
>their backslash-escaped counterparts. I looked in the encoders section
>of the string module but couldn't find anything appropriate. I could
>write it myself but I'm sure something of the sort exists. The
>hypothetical method "c_escaped()" would work like this:
>
>>>> a="abc\rdef"
>>>> print a.c_escaped()
>abc\rdef
>>>>

This is a little different from what you want, but just for the sake of
completeness:

>>> print repr(a)[1:-1]
abc\rdef
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 10:31:03 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 07:31:03 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>
>Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
>id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
>expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
>access to the referenced value.
>
>If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
>not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
>Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
>the value for which the id() value was provided.

IIRC, I've seen ctypes code that uses id() to get access to the object,
but (obviously) I don't think that invalidates your point[er].
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 10:40:29 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 07:40:29 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <hl1ofj$kh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl4v6f$bh8$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<5e12bb21-f1bc-4b43-a6ed-650d1c018e5d@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2489.1266053149.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl6h5d$4r5$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2489.1266053149.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:23:46 -0800 (PST), rantingrick
><rantingrick at gmail.com> declaimed the following in
>gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>> This entire thread has imploded like a neutron star into an infantile
>> debate that only Caddie Couric, Bill O Reilly, and everyone on PMS-NBC
>> can hold a candle to! The only post i enjoyed was Steve Howes!
>
>{Hmm, I don't recall ever seeing a "rantingrick" on the group before...
>could it be... a... "sockpuppet"?}

Zie's been around a while.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From sparks.m at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 10:59:42 2010
From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:59:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi Alf,


On Feb 12, 8:22 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> Thanks for the effort at non-flaming discussion, it *is*
> appreciated.

I would appreciate it if you tried to be non-flaming yourself,
since you can see I am not flaming you.

I was seeking to educate you on a simple matter which you seem
to be misunderstanding in python. This will be my second and
last attempt to do so since you chose to be inflammatory in your
response. (In case you do not understand what I find inflammatory,
I will discuss that at the end)

Please note below I may use CAPS occasionally. Whilst usually
taken as shouting, I mean them as BOLD. Please be aware of this :-)

My reason for choosing to do reply is for the simple reason
that recently I had similar discussions with a colleague who was
likewise stuck talking about implementation aspects (call by
reference/value rather than call with object/sharing).

> > Before I start, note we're talking about semantics, not
> > implementation. That distinction is very important.
>
> Yes.
[ inflammatory comment snipped]

Good - common ground - a good starting point.

Now, if I define a language, this has 3 main parts:
   * Syntax
   * Semantics
   * Implementation

The syntax of python is simply and shortly defined in a machine
readable format, and is therefore not interesting to discuss
here.

The implementation of python is similarly well defined. There are
multiple such implementations, one of which is CPython.

> However, all those references to implementation aspects,
> persisting
[ inflammatory comment snipped]

In theory when talking about a language, we do not need to talk
about implementation details. However when using a language,
implementation details do matter as well.

That's why people talk about implementation aspects. When talking
about how the language is defined, you need to talk about how the
language is defined. It's not defined in terms of Java pointers or
references. It's defined in terms of objects and names. (Or objects
and labels)

The exception to this is with pure functional language. In a pure
functional language I do not care about implementation details,
since they are outside the scope of the language.

It is worth noting that python and functional languages share a
common ethos - though with different conclusions - that optimising
for the programmers expression of the problem rather than for the
machine *matters*.

If you miss this, you will be stuck misunderstanding python,
pretty much forever. If you (the reader, not necessarily Alf)
understand this, good. If you don't, you need to re-read this
and really understand it.

(please bear in mind when I say "YOU" in that paragraph, I
mean "whomever is reading this", not anyone specific)

Let's get down to brass tacks.

In python, the LANGUAGE, there are no pointers or references,
much like in SML, haskell and friends there are no pointers or
references.  I'm using SML here as an example, because it is
conceptually close to python in terms to some aspects of
evaluation and how it deals with names and values. (There
are many differences as well, but we're dealing with calling,
names & values, in which they are close enough)

Taking an example from SML:

structure Stk =
struct
  exception EmptyStack;
  datatype 'x stack = EmptyStack | push of ('x * 'x stack);
  fun pop(push(x,y)) = y | pop EmptyStack = raise EmptyStack;
  fun top(push(x,y)) = x | top EmptyStack = raise EmptyStack;
end;

This may be used, say from the interactive prompt, as follows:

   val x = EmptyStack;  (* 1 *)
   val 'x = x;          (* 2 *)
   val y = push(5,'x);  (* 3 *)
   val z = push(4,y);   (* 4 *)
   top z;               (* 5 *)

Now, in this example, in SML, there are only names and values.
Unlike python, all values are immutable, and theoretically, no
sequencing of statements.

Now line 1 takes the EmptyStack value, and the name x is bound
to it. Line 2 takes that same EmptyStack value, and the name 'x
is also bound to it.

There are no pointers in SML, just names and values.

Like python, SML has aliases. 'x for example is an alias for x.
However that is just a symbolic name for the object itself.

When line 3 is evaluated, the value push(5, 'x) is bound to the
name y. Note - push(5, 'x) is in itself a value in SML, because
it has been defined as such in the Datatype definition in the
structure definition Stk.

When we reach line 5, the function top is called with the value
that z is bound to. Not a reference. Not a pointer. The actual
value. In this case z's value is push(4,push(5,EmptyStack)).

Thus the SML runtime evaluates the expression
   top push(4,push(5,EmptyStack))
And returns the value 4.

In python, I don't have such richness of ability to define values,
but I have these types play with:

   * numbers - 1.0 , 1, 1+2i, 0x11 0777
   * strings - "hello" "world"
   * lists - ["hello", "world" ]
   * tuples - ("hello", "world")
   * dicts - {"hello" : "world" }

All of these types are defined in python as python objects. How
they are implemented is irrelevant. What is relevant is that
lists and dicts are mutable. The rest are not. (This mutability,
along with sequencing and iteration make python different from
the pure subset of SML.)

However, nonetheless when I type this:

def hello(world):
   print world

hello("world")

When I call "hello", with the argument "world", the language
is DEFINED, that *just like SML* I am passing in that specific
object. Not a copy of a value (call by value). Not a reference
to the value. Not a pointer to a value. But that specific actual
object.

This isn't willy nilly or on a whim, that's a concious choice.

[ If this makes no sense, consider that python's history comes from
  a CS department like SML's does, rather than from an engineering
  department (ala C/C++/Java).


Now you might turn around and say (since you have in the thread)
"but in reality you're not _really_ passing in that object,
you're passing in a reference", you're wrong. If the language
defines it as passing in THAT object, then it defines it as
passing in THAT object.

But you can come back, as you have done, over and over and claim
that it's a pointer or a reference, and may even say things like
"well, according to this OTHER language's definition of this word,
I mean this".

That's nice, but ultimately broken.

Using another languages way of defining something is wrong.

In python it is *defined* as passing in the object. Not a reference.
Not a pointer. The object itself.

If it is a pointer or reference it has a value, and refers to a
value. Essentially 2 values in 1. This is part of the accepted
definition of pointer or reference. "A value that allows you to
find another value".

By claiming that in the below:

    >>> stack = ()
    >>> stack_ = stack

That stack is a reference to () and that stack_ is also a
reference to () _in python the language_, then I must be able
to get at the value of stack itself, and the value of stack_
itself.

You claim to be able to do this thus:
    >>> id(stack)
    3078742060L
    >>> id(stack_)
    3078742060L

On the surface of things, this sounds like a good claim, but it
isn't. If it was a reference, its type would be a reference.
It isn't:

    >>> type(id(stack))
    <type 'long'>
    >>> type(id(stack_))
    <type 'long'>

That value is an integer. Additionally, if these "id" values were
references, then I would be able to take those values and _inside
the language_ retrieve the value they refer to.

ie I would be able to type something like this to get this sort of
behaviour:
    >>> refstack = id(stack)
    >>> refstack_ = id(stack_)
    >>> STACK = !refstack
    >>> STACK_ = !refstack_
    >>> STACK
    ()
    >>> STACK_
    ()

This means one of two things:
   * Either "stack" by itself is a reference to (), but we
     cannot get at the reference itself, just the value it
     refers to.
   * OR "stack" is the preferred way of dereferencing the
     reference associated with stack, and to get at the actual
     reference we do id(stack).

The problem is i) is incomplete in terms of being a reference,
since we can only get at the r-value. The other one is that
ii) is incomplete because we have no way of going from an l-value
to an r-value.

This means that *AS FAR AS THE LANGUAGE* is concerned whether
the implementation looks or acts like it's implemented as call
by reference or whatever, it is simpler and more correct to say
that as far as the *LANGUAGE* is concerned, you pass in the
object, which will be bound with a local name inside the function
or method.

Thus is is more correct to say that python the language only has
aliases.

By comparison, it's possible to demonstrate that Java does have
references, because it is possible to box and unbox values to/from
reference values:

    http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/third_edition/html/conversions.html#190697

Thus whilst Java's semantics may be similar, python's differ in
that Java, the language, has references and python, the language,
has aliases.

Now let's move to the implementation aspects.

Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
(Jython) and .net (Ironpython).

There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
which can be found here:

http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/

This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.

Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
and pointers. Therefore to say "in reality the implementation
will be passing a reference or pointer" is invalid. There is
after all at least one implementation that does not rely on
such machine oriented language details.

What you find in terms of modelling the semantics, is that
implementation is seeking to model those of the python virtual
machine, and there that talks about values, objects, references
and the heap. However in terms of modelling how the language is
used this is not exposed at the language level.

Indeed the only test it uses with regard to references involves
the creation of a reference type _using_ python:

   class Reference(object) :
       pass

Creating a reference:
   a = Ref()

Setting the value the reference refers to:
   a.value = False

Passing the reference to a function, and changing the value the
reference:
   def bar(ref):
       ref.value = True

   bar(a)

Whilst you might say "But that's wrong", note that .value on
the right hand side is used for unboxing the value - it's
syntactic sugar for a method call on the ref object.
Specifically, it's the result of doing ref.__getattr__("value").

Likewise, ref.value on the left hand side of an equals is
also syntactic sugar for boxing the value - specifically it's
syntactic sugar for ref.__setattr__("value", <whatever>)

That's the closest you can come to Java references in python -
since otherwise you have no way to box or unbox any values.
If you want to claim Python has java references with no ability
to box or unbox any values, then maybe that's vaguely OK, but
it's still _wrong_. You can claim it's LIKE java references, but
since python doesn't have references, only aliases, you'd be
wrong to claim they're the same as java references.

And from a language spec - semantics, not implementation
viewpoint - you'd also still be wrong because you can implement
python without calling the values references.

Specifically, the object model defined in src/Objects.lhs and
src/ObjectTheory.lhs in the above reference operational semantics
specification of python uses a functional heap to contain the
objects. New objects are created there thus:

rewrite   (State
( heap                                                          )
envs  stack  ( FwApp (Prim "object" "__new__") (a_c:as) )) =
          (state  ( heap <+> [a |-> ObjValue (new [__class__ |-> a_c])
NoneValue] )  envs  stack  ( BwResult
a                               ))
  where a = freeAddr heap

In this definition, which is compilable and executable (since it's
haskell), there are no references, pointers or memory allocation.

Thus to say that for this:

    def hello(world)
        print world

    hello("world")

Saying that I *must* be passing in "world" by reference since
implementation requires this, is false. In *an* implementation
may do that, and indeed, it's the most obvious way of
*implementing* it in many languages, but to say the language
specifies it that way is incorrect.

After all, in the Haskell implementation for example, the
object itself is just passed in.

 ~~ interlude ~~

Now, if python DID add references, this would be pretty awesome
because it's the most obvious way of adding in software transactional
memory, since this usage of X.value is remarkably close to the way
I deal with values in my implementation of software transactional
memory for python which you'll find here:

   * http://www.kamaelia.org/STM

And since python doesn't already have references, you wouldn't be
changing existing semantics.

This won't happen for a fair while at least for many reasons, not
least the fact that there's a moratorium on language changes at
present.

 ~~ end interlude ~~

Now if we return to CPython, we find that CPython is the most
commonly used implementation of python. As a result much python
code is written to work well with that implementation, rather
than with any other.

The CPython implementation has some limitations:
   * It is written in C
   * It cannot pass in actual objects (like haskell), only
     primitive values.
   * Therefore it has to pass in pointers to values to the parts
     of the subsystem that do the evaluation.
   * It has to track memory, and performs garbage collection.
   * Since it tracks garbage, it uses the parlance of garbage
     collection - specifically including references and reference
     counts. A reference count is however just a count of "who
     knows about this object and is keeping this alive")
   * All memory allocation lives in the heap, and as a result
     python objects sit there, and the implementation slings
     around pointers to these things.
   * Logically speaking (and at the language level), python
     objects may contain other objects. Specifically, a list
     may contain another object (or even itself). Both of
     these types of relationship cause the reference counts
     to increase.
   * The program running tracks the objects using names, and
     when an object stops being findable by another object
     (eg no longer in a list, and no longer labelled by someone),
     this is a trigger which the garbage collector can use to
     decide to delete the object.

Given CPython is written in C, it becomes natural for CPython -
the implementation - to therefore start talking about objects,
pointers, references, reference counts and so on. Not only that
since no programmer really likes memory leaks etc, actually
knowing what the implementation is doing is *at times* useful
to know.

Since the language spec is tied up with a specific implementation,
some of these details leak into the language of the document.

So yes, as a pragmatic python programmer, I do care about reference
counts. I do care about weakrefs which don't increase reference
counts. I do care about when values are created and deleted.

However, I only do so because of the *implementation* not because
of the specification.

When it comes to talking about the language, saying "it's pointers"
over and over or saying "it's references" over and over or even
saying "it's references/pointers as defined by java" over and over
does NOT make it correct.

If you move forward and accept that python THE LANGUAGE uses names
and objects, and names are more like labels stuck onto objects
than names of boxes that objects can sit inside, you'll move
forward somewhat.

If you don't, that's fine, but stating your version of "truth" as
correct, when told many times you are incorrect is either ignorance,
arrogance, pigheadedness or stupidity.

I have chosen to believe it's ignorance, and assuming good faith.

Now, I did say I'd pick out the inflammatory parts of how you've
spoken to me, and I will just leave them as that. You will
hopefully see how they're inflammatory and modify your behaviour
in future.

Please note though, I will pick out one point. I was not using
Wikipedia as a means of argument by authority. I was using it as
a starting point for a discussion which I thought many could use
as a valid starting point - since whilst not perfect, and can be
highly inaccurate in places, it does form one of the few places
where people generally eventually reach some form of consensus.

The fact that you've previously editted, fine. Good. That's very
civic minded of you and I thank you for it.

The idea that somehow bringing in an acceptable definition from
some source that you've effectively stated you agree with as
valid (because you've editted it), somehow invalidates the meat
of my points I find a little bizarre. I'll put that down to
cultural differences.

Anyway, here's the points I find inflammatory, and rather than
respond, I'll leave them as is.

I'll also not be responding to any further mails containing
inflammatory comments. You can think this stupid or annoying,
but quite frankly, I don't see the point.

Hopefully nothing I have said above you personally find
inflammatory, if you do, I apologise in advance. I do hope
that my mail has moved your understanding of python calling
conventions on. I primarily do this because I hope that you
do not pass on your misunderstandings as fact, when in fact
they are not - because doing so would do others a disservice.

Regards,


Michael.

Inflammatory comments  (from my personal viewpoint)
On Feb 12, 8:22 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> It would seem to readers that posters here do not grasp and are
> unable to grasp that distinction.

The posters here do understand that distinction.

> However, all those references to implementation aspects,
> persisting in the face of corrections,

Stating something is a correction does not make that correction
true. If I state it's call by sharing, and that happens to be
the definition, then correcting me and calling it call by value
or call by reference does not make that correction true.

If you are told something repeatedly by many sources, perhaps
consider you may be wrong.

>  have just, IMHO, been consistent attempts at misrepresentation.

This can be taken as posters choosing to misrepresent your words,
and is equivalent to the question "When did you stop beating your
wife?", and equally offensive.

> I'm sorry to disappoint, but no. It was a random Google hit to find
> a first-year text that perhaps posters here could understand.

You have been talking to many people who have been around python
for sometime, including those who've worked on python's internals.
Assuming that they need "educating" as CS101 students is offensive.

> Not insinuiting anything about heir mental prowess or lack
> thereof,

No. It does - whether you like it or not. Communication is about
2 (or more) parties communicating. The sender of a message should
care more about how their message is recieved than how it is sent.
In my case, my goal of sending you a message was to educate.

Your goal APPEARS to have the purpose of defending a position you
hold strongly, to the extent of ignoring the effect on others. If
you think "That's their problem", then I can just correct you,
and then ignore you. If that's a misrepresentation of your goals,
then maybe telling you is helpful. I don't know.

I do know thoughI've made that sort of mistake in the past (not to
anyone here, but I have done), and realised my mistake and been
grown up enough to recognise my mistake and apologise.

I feel you have made that mistake here. Whether you apologise
is your call. I would.

> but just something they might understand given a repeatedly
> demonstrated inability to understand such basics, or even to
> understand the concept of reference to a definition of a term.

No, they do not agree with you. This is not the same as not
understanding, or lacking the mental ability to understand
"basic terms".

If I said you lacked the ability to understand such basics
of human interaction, you'd probably be rather offended.
If, at the same time, I demonstrated a complete inability to
understand such basics myself, you would find such remarks
inflammatory.

> Please do consider that my usage of the term "pointer" has
> always, in this thread, including the first article I posted
> in this thread, been with explicit reference to the Java
> language spec's meaning.

I understand this. What you seem to misunderstand is that others
also understand this. They also understand that Pointer as viewed
from the Java Language Spec *IS* a different concept.

There may be similarities, but the fact that you can unbox and
rebox a Java Reference (as per reference above), where you *cannot*
in python because, well, you can't, IS a fundamentally different
concept.

Conceptually you pass in the object in python. Not the object.
Java has to say you pass in a reference because Java has the
concept of references which may be box and unbox values.

> You may argue that those who wrote that language spec are
> confused about things or whatever, but that's rather stretching
> it, wouldn't you say?

No it isn't, there's others who claim exactly the same thing
about the Java Language Spec. In python, the language spec was
written by those who wrote CPython, therefore their terms are
clouded by concrete details. If they weren't, they'd use the
term aliases more often.


> So, this must be the most silly "argument by authority"
> ever offered.

This is inflammatory because you are deriding my premise as "silly"
because you have chosen to not ask yourself *why* I chose to use
that as a starting point, and then chose to ignore all my points
and arguments, deriding it as "silly".

That's rather inflammatory when someone is seeking to educate you
in the hope of making it such that you understand better and those
you come in contact with learn the correct semantics, rather than
what you think the semantics are, despite being told otherwise.

> I find that amusing and would have included a smiley except that
> I think that that would incur further flames.

Please not I have not flamed you. I have ignored your inflammatory
remarks except to note how I find them inflammatory towards myself
and others.

The assumption that I would flame you I do actually find relatively
offensive. I've stayed out of many flame wars for many years, and
generally find that seeking to understand why the opposing side in
an argument is saying what they do can actually often either resolve
differences or lead to an agreement to disagree.

Likewise I have tried to stay away from making suggestions as to
how you should change your behaviour since that could be considered
inflammatory by some.

> It's no criticism of you; I do appreciate your effort, thanks.

This comes across as dismissive, given you ignored the entire body
of my mail, and decided to deride it as "silly".

> And I reiterate that the meaning of "pointer" I have used is
> the meaning in the Java language spec.

This assumes I have not read the thread. I have. I read the
statement above numerous times. I also however have read the
Java Language Spec (you are not the only person to have done
this of course), and do NOT agree with you.

Indeed I can see usecases where *adding* references to python,
the language, could be useful. However, since they're not there,
I can't.

> And that that's about semantics, not about implementation,
> and not about C pointers or Pascal pointers or whatever else
> that some would rather wish it was.

Unfortunately, you have picked a language whose semantics for
references include the concept of being able to box and unbox
object references. You cannot do that in python. Boxing and
unboxing references is just another term for referencing and
dereferencing values. Again, something you can't do in python.

Again, by ignoring the meat of my argument and reiterating your
point, you come across as willfulling ignoring logical rational
arguments put your way in as non-inflammatory was as possible,
decrying all those who disagree with you as somehow stupid,
misrepresentational or ignorant.

By doing so, your mail as a whole is rather inflammatory, but
I've decided to only send one mail in reply to you and then
leave it at that.

> In the following that I snipped you had good discussion except
> for (as I could see) a fallacy-based denial of references
> existing in Python.

No, it's not denial, it's an understanding of programming
languages borne from having used a wide variety of languages
from Assembler (Z80, 6502, 6800), BASIC, pascal, C, C++, Java,
COBOL, Occam, Fortran, Perl, Python, Ruby, E, SML, Haskell,
Prolog, Lisp, and several others I've probably forgotten I've
used now over well over a quarter of century of usage. I've
used languages which are reference only, object only, value
only, etc.

My conclusion that python is call by object sharing is based
on 8 years experience of using python, and changing my views
from early on viewing it as pointers/references to understand
that the semantics are much closer to that of an impure
functional language where you pass complex objects *themselves*
(from a _semantic_ perspective).

To claim that I am in "denial", somehow implies that I am either
inexperienced, stupid, or unwilling to call a hammer a hammer or
a screwdriver a screwdriver.

I'm not. I'm simply unwilling to call a hammer a screwdriver or
call a screw a nail.

> I don't think there's any point in discussing that further,
> because it's evidently a religious matter where rational
> arguments

This is inflammatory, since you dismiss my arguments now as
religious rather than rational. I find that moderately disgusting
and offensive.

> --  and I've tried a few

You have not appeared to try to understand where my argument
is coming from sadly, despite me doing the same for yours. You
have dismissed my disagreement as religious, rather than seeking
to understanding the rational argument you have been presented,
and have not argued against it.

I however am seeking to be precise, by choosing NOT to use terms
like reference, because they are incorrect.

> --  don't reach, in spite of the extreme triviality of the
> subject matter.

Far from being trivial, understanding that you cannot unbox
"the value" of a python object is rather fundamental to the
understanding of python. Understanding that you are passing
around (logically speaking) the actual object explains for
example why this style of coding confuses people when they
start with python:

    >>> class MyObject(object):
    ...    def __init__(self, store=[]):
    ...        self.store = store
    ...    def append(self, X):
    ...        self.store.append(X)
    ...    def pop(self):
    ...        return self.store.pop()
    ...
    >>> X = MyObject()
    >>> Y = MyObject()
    >>> X.append(10)
    >>> Y.pop()
    10

The misunderstanding that people have is that they
assume that this:
    ...    def __init__(self, store=[]):

Results in a new empty object being created every time, whereas
actually it's created at the point the def statement is run,
specifically here:
    >>> MyObject.__init__.im_func.func_defaults
    ([],)

The fact I can get *an* object id thus:
    >>> id(MyObject.__init__.im_func.func_defaults[0])
    3078510124L
    >>> id(X.store)
    3078510124L
    >>> id(Y.store)
    3078510124L

Is pretty irrelevant. It's not a reference - it's an opaque
value that happens to be useful when debugging for telling
whether I've got the same object or not. Otherwise the objects
themselves would have no default name, and no way of telling
if THIS list is different fron THAT list.

However, by understanding that the [] object is created when
the def statement is evaluated and the object reused by all
subsequent calls, rather than being created when the object
is called explains much more clearly WHY the code works the
way it does.

Yes, you can make a similar argument in terms of references,
and under the hood that's what happens with pointers to an
empty list object stored on the heap. However, in terms of
semantics, it's an actual python object, not a reference.

After all python is a HUMAN oriented language, not a machine
oriented language. A reference says "this thing over here".
An object is a thing. The latter is more HUMAN, the former
is machine oriented.

> Thanks for the effort at non-flaming discussion,
> it *is* appreciated.

It does not appear that way, since you have chosen to assume
that I don't understand the thrust of your arguments, rather
than disagree with them. You have chosen to assume that my
arguments are wrong and used or made for religious reasons
rather than rational ones - such as the desire to be precise.

I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you,
since that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and
puts into context the responses you have gained from others.

After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE
ALL WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one
does not to understand what one is talking about does not
tend to engender warm fluffy feelings or sentiments of
authority towards such an individual. Be it me, you, or
anyone else.

At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a
behaviour. Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't
care about  my viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it
if you would try not to be inflammatory in your response
to this. (Since you do appear to also have a need to have
the last word)

Hoping this was useful on some level,


Michael.


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 11:08:11 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:08:11 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Aahz:
> In article <mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Whether in CPython, Jython or IronPython the value returned by calling
>> id(x) (whether x is a literal, a simple name or a more complex
>> expression) is absolutely no use as an accessor: it does not give you
>> access to the referenced value.
>>
>> If you disagree, please write (in any implementation you like: it need
>> not even be portable, though I can't imagine why ti wouldn't be) a
>> Python function which takes an id() value as its argument and returns
>> the value for which the id() value was provided.
> 
> IIRC, I've seen ctypes code that uses id() to get access to the object,

Dino Viehland gave this code:

<quote author="Dino Viehland">
Just for fun this works in IronPython 2.6:

 >>> >>> import clr
 >>> >>> clr.AddReference('Microsoft.Dynamic')
 >>> >>> from Microsoft.Scripting.Runtime import IdDispenser
 >>> >>> x = object()
 >>> >>> id(x)
43
 >>> >>> IdDispenser.GetObject(43)
<object object at 0x000000000000002B>
 >>> >>> IdDispenser.GetObject(43) is x
True
</quote>



> but (obviously) I don't think that invalidates your point[er].

For my part I didn't think the above would be possible without enumerating all 
objects. I'm guessing that Steve didn't think so either. However, I seriously 
doubt that an agreement with my earlier statements of that was his point, 
considering the "if" above, which seems to imply to the reader that instead I'd 
argued what he's challenging.

Perhaps Steve was just confused.

My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec, didn't say much 
more about the language than that it has assignable references.

It took a long time to get the wild horses reined in in that direction.

But then two others ended up arguing that Python does not have references, with 
one of them maintaining that "refers to" in the language spec does not mean 
"refers to", but instead means "refers to", so I'm guessing it's religious, yes?


Cheers,

- Alf


From as at sci.fi  Sat Feb 13 11:18:15 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:18:15 +0200
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

Nobody <nobody at nowhere.com> writes:

> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 64-bit CPU
> and OS.

That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 11:33:53 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:33:53 -0600
Subject: how do I write a scliceable class?
In-Reply-To: <20100213125109.GA15741@doriath.local>
References: <20100213125109.GA15741@doriath.local>
Message-ID: <hl6k9q$oc7$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-13 06:51 , Ernest Adrogu? wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I'm designing a container class that supports slicing.
> The problem is that I don't really know how to do it.
>
> class MyClass(object):
> 	def __init__(self, input_data):
> 		self._data = transform_input(input_data)
> 	def __getitem__(self, key):
> 		if isinstance(key, slice):
> 			# return a slice of self
> 			pass
> 		else:
> 			# return a scalar value
> 			return self._data[key]
>
> The question is how to return a slice of self.
> First I need to create a new instance... but how? I can't
> use MyClass(self._data[key]) because the __init__ method
> expects a different kind of input data.
>
> Another option is
>
> out = MyClass.__new__(MyClass)
> out._data = self._data[key]
> return out
>
> But then the __init__ method is not called, which is
> undesirable because subclasses of this class might need
> to set some custom settings in their __init__ method.
>
> So what is there to do? Any suggestion?

I highly recommend making __init__() constructors do as little computation as 
possible. You can add other constructors using @classmethod that do convenient 
transformations.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 13 11:40:21 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:40:21 +0100
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>
	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 13.02.10 17:18, schrieb Anssi Saari:
> Nobody<nobody at nowhere.com>  writes:
>
>> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 64-bit CPU
>> and OS.
>
> That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
> allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
> Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.

No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit through 
paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.

Diez



From maligree at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 11:43:04 2010
From: maligree at gmail.com (Maligree)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 08:43:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: threading and signals - main thread solely responsible for signal 
	handling?
Message-ID: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

The main part of my script is a function that does many long reads
(urlopen, it's looped). Since I'm hell-bent on employing SIGINFO to
display some stats, I needed to run foo() as a seperate thread to
avoid getting errno 4 (interrupted system call) errors (which occur if
SIGINFO is received while urlopen is setting itself up/waiting for a
response). This does the job, SIGINFO is handled without ever brutally
interrupting urlopen.

The problem is that after starting foo as a thread, my main thread has
nothing left to do - unless it receives a signal, and I am forced to
keep it in some sort of loop so that ANY signal handling can still
occur. I thought I'd just occupy it with a simple while 1: pass loop
but that, unfortunately, means 100% CPU usage.

Is there any way I could put the main thread to sleep? Or perhaps my
approach is totally wrong?



From bblais at bryant.edu  Sat Feb 13 12:01:36 2010
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:01:36 -0500
Subject: multiprocessing and games
Message-ID: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>

Hello,

I've been thinking about implementing some simple games, where one  
can program agents to play the game.  I thought that the  
multiprocessing module would be perfect for it, organized with a main  
simulator engine spawning processes for each agent.  However, I am  
having trouble wrapping my head around the organization of the code.   
I haven't found a lot of examples of using multiprocessing, and no  
game implementations.

There are two types of games that I would like to implement.  In both  
cases, I'd like to be able to run something like:

results=Sim.run('agent1.py','agent2.py')

where the Sim object is initialized before with the board size,  
placement of pieces, etc...  The files agent1.py and agent2.py would  
have the code to run the agent.  The two types of games are different  
in terms of the organization of the agent code.  In the first, which  
I think should be more straightforward, there will be one function  
defined in the file with syntax like:

def agent(board,my_player_number):
     # stuff here for the agent
     return move

Think "tic-tac-toe" here.  The simulator would have to spawn  
processes, which load these files and handle the communication to the  
main simulator.  The main simulator would loop through the agents,  
get moves, and then update the board with these moves.  In the case  
of tic-tac-toe, then each agent is called in serial, and the update  
after each move.  In the case of something like Civilization or Tron,  
the moves are all collected and then the board is updated.

The other type of game, which would work like Tron or Civilization,  
the agent file would not contain a function but a list of commands,  
like:

North()
North()
if Neighbor['North']:
     East()
# etc...

I am not sure what the best way to organize the code, in either case,  
for the main simulator or the best way to use multiprocessing here.   
I thought that maybe Pipe would be the best choice, and for each move  
there would be a send() and recv() between each agent and the main  
simulator, where the agent would receive updated information after  
each move.  What happens if an agent has an infinite loop (ignores a  
signal from the simulator that it has lost)?  Can the simulator catch  
this, and kill the process?  Does that happen if either side closes  
the pipe?  Is there an obvious way to structure this sort of game  
engine?  Is there an implementation already out there that I am  
reinventing?  What information would be best to send to the agent?    
I was finding myself using more global variables than I was  
comfortable, so I figured I was thinking about this incorrectly.


Any help would be great!  Pointers to other examples of using  
multiprocessing, especially with games, would be fantastic.


		thanks,
			Brian Blais


-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
http://bblais.blogspot.com/



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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 12:02:53 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:02:53 +0000
Subject: threading and signals - main thread solely responsible for signal
	handling?
In-Reply-To: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B76DB3D.9010603@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Maligree wrote:
> The main part of my script is a function that does many long reads
> (urlopen, it's looped). Since I'm hell-bent on employing SIGINFO to
> display some stats, I needed to run foo() as a seperate thread to
> avoid getting errno 4 (interrupted system call) errors (which occur if
> SIGINFO is received while urlopen is setting itself up/waiting for a
> response). This does the job, SIGINFO is handled without ever brutally
> interrupting urlopen.
> 
> The problem is that after starting foo as a thread, my main thread has
> nothing left to do - unless it receives a signal, and I am forced to
> keep it in some sort of loop so that ANY signal handling can still
> occur. I thought I'd just occupy it with a simple while 1: pass loop
> but that, unfortunately, means 100% CPU usage.
> 
> Is there any way I could put the main thread to sleep? Or perhaps my
> approach is totally wrong?
> 
The simplest fix is to call time.sleep(seconds) in the loop. Repeated
sleeps of 1 second, for example, consume very little CPU time.


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sat Feb 13 12:22:26 2010
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:22:26 -0000
Subject: threading and signals - main thread solely responsible for signal
	handling?
In-Reply-To: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <08ff88fe-17fa-4091-9f81-4c3a7a33a1cb@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100213172226.26099.213963272.divmod.xquotient.1291@localhost.localdomain>

On 04:43 pm, maligree at gmail.com wrote:
>The main part of my script is a function that does many long reads
>(urlopen, it's looped). Since I'm hell-bent on employing SIGINFO to
>display some stats, I needed to run foo() as a seperate thread to
>avoid getting errno 4 (interrupted system call) errors (which occur if
>SIGINFO is received while urlopen is setting itself up/waiting for a
>response). This does the job, SIGINFO is handled without ever brutally
>interrupting urlopen.
>
>The problem is that after starting foo as a thread, my main thread has
>nothing left to do - unless it receives a signal, and I am forced to
>keep it in some sort of loop so that ANY signal handling can still
>occur. I thought I'd just occupy it with a simple while 1: pass loop
>but that, unfortunately, means 100% CPU usage.
>
>Is there any way I could put the main thread to sleep? Or perhaps my
>approach is totally wrong?

I don't think those two options are mutually exclusive. ;)

MRAB suggested you time.sleep() in a loop, which is probably fine. 
However, if you want to have even /less/ activity than that in the main 
thread, take a look at signal.pause().

Also, perhaps not terribly interesting, signal.siginterrupt() was 
recently introduced, which will let you avoid EINTR if SIGINFO is 
received while urlopen is in a syscall (but will also prevent the signal 
from being handled until the syscall returns on its own).

And there's always Twisted & friends. :)

Jean-Paul


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 12:54:33 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:54:33 +0000
Subject: multiprocessing and games
In-Reply-To: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>
References: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <4B76E759.3010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Brian Blais wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've been thinking about implementing some simple games, where one can 
> program agents to play the game.  I thought that the multiprocessing 
> module would be perfect for it, organized with a main simulator engine 
> spawning processes for each agent.  However, I am having trouble 
> wrapping my head around the organization of the code.  I haven't found a 
> lot of examples of using multiprocessing, and no game implementations.
> 
> There are two types of games that I would like to implement.  In both 
> cases, I'd like to be able to run something like:
> 
> results=Sim.run('agent1.py','agent2.py')
> 
> where the Sim object is initialized before with the board size, 
> placement of pieces, etc...  The files agent1.py and agent2.py would 
> have the code to run the agent.  The two types of games are different in 
> terms of the organization of the agent code.  In the first, which I 
> think should be more straightforward, there will be one function defined 
> in the file with syntax like:
> 
> def agent(board,my_player_number):
>     # stuff here for the agent
>     return move
> 
> Think "tic-tac-toe" here.  The simulator would have to spawn processes, 
> which load these files and handle the communication to the main 
> simulator.  The main simulator would loop through the agents, get moves, 
> and then update the board with these moves.  In the case of tic-tac-toe, 
> then each agent is called in serial, and the update after each move.  In 
> the case of something like Civilization or Tron, the moves are all 
> collected and then the board is updated.
> 
> The other type of game, which would work like Tron or Civilization, the 
> agent file would not contain a function but a list of commands, like:
> 
> North()
> North()
> if Neighbor['North']:
>     East()
> # etc...
> 
> I am not sure what the best way to organize the code, in either case, 
> for the main simulator or the best way to use multiprocessing here.  I 
> thought that maybe Pipe would be the best choice, and for each move 
> there would be a send() and recv() between each agent and the main 
> simulator, where the agent would receive updated information after each 
> move.  What happens if an agent has an infinite loop (ignores a signal 
> from the simulator that it has lost)?  Can the simulator catch this, and 
> kill the process?  Does that happen if either side closes the pipe?  Is 
> there an obvious way to structure this sort of game engine?  Is there an 
> implementation already out there that I am reinventing?  What 
> information would be best to send to the agent?   I was finding myself 
> using more global variables than I was comfortable, so I figured I was 
> thinking about this incorrectly.
> 
> 
> Any help would be great!  Pointers to other examples of using 
> multiprocessing, especially with games, would be fantastic.
> 
Forget about global variables, they're not worth it! :-)

Think in terms of messages, sent via pipes, sockets or multiprocessing
queues.

In a game like "tic-tac-toe" (also known as "noughts and crosses", BTW),
the sim sends a message to an agent requesting a move ("what's your
move"). The agent can send requests for the state of the board ("what's
at position (x, y)?") and get replies ("it's a X"/"it's a O"/"it's
empty"), but at some point it must send the sim its move ("put a piece
at (x, y)") and the sim can say whether it's valid ("OK"/"bad move").

If the agent takes too long then the sim sends just tells the agent that
it took too long and should quit ("quit").



From as at sci.fi  Sat Feb 13 13:52:41 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:52:41 +0200
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>
	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
	<7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vg3r5opotmu.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:

> Am 13.02.10 17:18, schrieb Anssi Saari:
>> Nobody<nobody at nowhere.com>  writes:
>>
>>> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 64-bit CPU
>>> and OS.
>>
>> That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
>> allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
>> Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.
>
> No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit
> through paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.

That too. I admit, after checking, that you can't go above 3 GiB per
process even in server Windows. But for Linux there exists (or
existed, since it seems it hasn't been updated since 2004) a kernel
patch which provides a "4GB/4GB" address split. Kernel is in one
segment, userland in another and hence a process can access full 4GB.


From m.faustino at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 14:31:47 2010
From: m.faustino at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rcio_Faustino?=)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:31:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MemoryError in imaplib?
Message-ID: <79bafa50-1f13-4b7a-9f3b-937cb2860c80@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

When using "imaplib" to fetch e-mail messages, the "IMAP4_SSL.read"
and "IMAP4_SSL.readline" functions sometimes throw a "MemoryError"
exception in "chunks.append(data)" and "line.append(char)",
respectively. But if I change those functions to use instead a
"cStringIO" buffer object, then that exception doesn't get thrown.

Is this normal? I've seen this happen with Python 2.6.4 in both
Windows XP 32-bit and Windows 7 64-bit.

Thanks,


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 14:46:26 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:46:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
Message-ID: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hello, searched all over but no success. I want to have a script
output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.
In Python 2, I just said this:

if len(sys.argv)==True:

and it seemed to work. Py3 must have broken that by sending a list
with the path to the script in BOTH the browser and Terminal. Is there
some newfangled way to determine what is running the script (hopefully
without a try wrapper)?

-- Gnarlie


From news123 at free.fr  Sat Feb 13 14:55:05 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:55:05 +0100
Subject: how to make a SimpleXMLRPCServer abort at CTRL-C under windows
In-Reply-To: <4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b6ca3d7$0$23509$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2024.1265417778.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b6e0841$0$22047$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b77039a$0$12387$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Gabriel,




News123 wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
> 
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:03:51 -0300, News123 <news123 at free.fr> escribi?:
>>
>>> I'm using an XMLRPC server under Windows.
>>>
>>> What I wonder is how I could create a server, that can be killed with
>>> CTRL-C
>>>
>>> The server aborts easily with CTRL-BREAK but not with CTRL-C (under
>>> Windows)
>>>
>>> If I press CTRL-C it will only abort when the next RPC call occurs.
>>> It seems it is blocking in the select() call in the handle_request()
>>> function.
>> Python 2.6 and up behaves exactly as you want.
>> On previous versions you may use this:
>>
>> class MyXMLRPCServer(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer):
>>
>>     ... your methods ...
>>
>>     if not hasattr(SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer, 'shutdown'):
>>
>>         # pre 2.6
>>         quit = False
>>
>>         def serve_forever(self):
>>             while not self.quit:
>>                 self.handle_request()
>>
>>         def shutdown(self):
>>             self.quit = True
>>
>>         def server_bind(self):
>>             self.socket.settimeout(1.0)
>>             SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer.server_bind(self)
>>
> 
> Overloading  server_bind() with your version solved my problem.
> 

Overloading server_bind() makes the server killable with ctrl-C.

I noticed however, that I can't use this as solution.
If the bind function sets a time out, then it seems,

that there are regular small time windows, when connecting clients fail.
I don't have the error message any more, but will post it when I capture
the event next time.


bye

N



From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:03:28 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:03:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python and http POST
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2423.1265961606.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <12f5dcf0-74aa-4c10-960e-90946d1ed853@b18g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all for your responses, and Javier thank you for your longer
response. I've just downloaded mechanize and beautifulsoup and will
start to play around.

>From a pure learning standpoint, however, I'd really like to learn how
to use the python post method (without mechanize) to go to a webpage,
fill in a form, click 'submit', follow the redirect to the results
page, and download content.

For example, if I go to google.com, use firebug and click on the
search bar, the following HTML is highlighted:

<input value="" title="Google Search" class="lst" size="55" name="q"
maxlength="2048"
onblur="google&amp;&amp;google.fade&amp;&amp;google.fade()"
autocomplete="off">

So if I were to use the 'post' method, how can I tell from the code
above what the ID of the searchbar is? Is it 'value', 'name', or
neither?

Assuming that the ID is 'name', then to search google for the term
'olypmics' would the proper code be:

import httplib2
import urllib
data = {'q':'olympics'}
body = urllib.urlencode(data)
h = httplib2.Http()
resp, content = h.request("http://www.google.com", method="POST",
body=body)
print content;

Does content return the content of the 'search results' page? And if
not, how do I tell python to do that?
Finally, must I transmit headers, or are they optional?

Thanks all for your continued help!

Matt


On Feb 12, 2:59?am, Javier Collado <javier.coll... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I haven't used httplib2, but you can certainly use any other
> alternative to send HTTP requests:
> - urllib/urllib2
> - mechanize
>
> With regard to how do you find the form you're looking for, you may:
> - create the HTTP request on your own with urllib2. To find out what
> variables do you need to post, you can use tamperdata Firefox addon as
> suggested (I haven't used that one) or httpfox (I have and it works
> great).
> - use mechanize to locate the form for you, fill the data in and click
> on the submit button.
>
> Additionally, you may wan to scrape some data that may be useful for
> your requests. For that BeautifulSoup is good solution (with some
> Firebug help to visually locate what you're looking for).
>
> Best regards,
> ? ? Javier
>
> P.S. Some examples here:http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-pythonhttp://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python-part-2
>
> 2010/2/11 galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hey All,
>
> > Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> > program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> > fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> > result.
>
> > I'm using httplib2.
>
> > My two particular questions:
>
> > 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> > how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> > do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> > fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> > source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> > key?
>
> > 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> > 'submit' the search?
>
> > Thanks all!
>
> > Matt
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 13 15:16:20 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:16:20 -0800
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
In-Reply-To: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002131216v4ab1e695x1e082e017f6a4fb2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, searched all over but no success. I want to have a script
> output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.
> In Python 2, I just said this:
>
> if len(sys.argv)==True:

That line doesn't make sense really as it is practically equivalent to:

if len(sys.argv) == 1:

Which, since argv always contains at least 1 element (the program's
name), is essentially checking whether /no/ arguments were passed on
the command line.
Recall that issubclass(bool, int) is true and that True == 1 in Python
due to details of said subclassing.

Note also that "== True" is almost always unnecessary as it is
essentially implicit in the "if".

I suspect you instead meant to write:

if len(sys.argv) > 0:

which for the record can be written more idiomatically as:

if sys.argv: # bool(some_list) is True if some_list is not empty

Which, however, as I explained, is always true since argv is /never/
completely empty, and thus the test is useless. What you probably
*wanted* is:

if len(sys.argv) > 1:

Which is effectively the opposite of my very first code snippet and
checks whether we /were/ passed some arguments on the command line.

> and it seemed to work.

By happy accident I suspect, due to the aforementioned way == works
between bools and ints and probably a logic error in your code.

> Py3 must have broken that by sending a list
> with the path to the script in BOTH the browser and Terminal. Is there
> some newfangled way to determine what is running the script (hopefully
> without a try wrapper)?

How exactly are you running the script *"in"* the browser? Browsers
can only execute JavaScript, not Python. Do you mean you're running it
via a webserver?
If so, there are /several/ possible ways of doing that, please explain
exactly which you are using.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:16:38 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:16:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python and http POST
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2423.1265961606.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <29a9914f-e5f4-4a18-93fb-3b032aebac4b@d34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all for your responses, and Javier thank you for your longer
response. I've just downloaded mechanize and beautifulsoup and will
start to play around.

>From a pure learning standpoint, however, I'd really like to learn how
to use the python post method (without mechanize) to go to a webpage,
fill in a form, click 'submit', follow the redirect to the results
page, and download content.

For example, if I go to google.com, use firebug and click on the
search bar, the following HTML is highlighted:

<input value="" title="Google Search" class="lst" size="55" name="q"
maxlength="2048"
onblur="google&amp;&amp;google.fade&amp;&amp;google.fade()"
autocomplete="off">

So if I were to use the 'post' method, how can I tell from the code
above what the ID of the searchbar is? Is it 'value', 'name', or
neither?

Assuming that the ID is 'name', then to search google for the term
'olypmics' would the proper code be:

import httplib2
import urllib
data = {'q':'olympics'}
body = urllib.urlencode(data)
h = httplib2.Http()
resp, content = h.request("http://www.google.com", method="POST",
body=body)
print content;

Does content return the content of the 'search results' page? And if
not, how do I tell python to do that?
Finally, must I transmit headers, or are they optional?

Thanks all for your continued help!

Matt


On Feb 12, 2:59?am, Javier Collado <javier.coll... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I haven't used httplib2, but you can certainly use any other
> alternative to send HTTP requests:
> - urllib/urllib2
> - mechanize
>
> With regard to how do you find the form you're looking for, you may:
> - create the HTTP request on your own with urllib2. To find out what
> variables do you need to post, you can use tamperdata Firefox addon as
> suggested (I haven't used that one) or httpfox (I have and it works
> great).
> - use mechanize to locate the form for you, fill the data in and click
> on the submit button.
>
> Additionally, you may wan to scrape some data that may be useful for
> your requests. For that BeautifulSoup is good solution (with some
> Firebug help to visually locate what you're looking for).
>
> Best regards,
> ? ? Javier
>
> P.S. Some examples here:http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-pythonhttp://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python-part-2
>
> 2010/2/11 galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hey All,
>
> > Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> > program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> > fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> > result.
>
> > I'm using httplib2.
>
> > My two particular questions:
>
> > 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> > how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> > do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> > fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> > source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> > key?
>
> > 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> > 'submit' the search?
>
> > Thanks all!
>
> > Matt
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 13 15:17:15 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:17:15 +0100
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
In-Reply-To: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7tofmbFdmjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 13.02.10 20:46, schrieb Gnarlodious:
> Hello, searched all over but no success. I want to have a script
> output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.
> In Python 2, I just said this:
>
> if len(sys.argv)==True:
>
> and it seemed to work. Py3 must have broken that by sending a list
> with the path to the script in BOTH the browser and Terminal. Is there
> some newfangled way to determine what is running the script (hopefully
> without a try wrapper)?

I have no idea what you mean by "running python in a browser". I can 
only guess you mean as cgi or mod_python-skript?

However, maybe

if os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()):


works for you.

Or you could check for certain environment variables that are present 
when running as CGI or mod_python skript, but not knowing *what* you do 
can only lead to educated guesses at best.

Diez


From timr at probo.com  Sat Feb 13 15:29:45 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:29:45 -0800
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkum2p$4i0$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2331.1265841480.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1n2en51qqliplc2u8q78l3gt2dn3vmeh8d@4ax.com>

"Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>
>The original problem was with the RDTSC instruction on multicore CPUs;  
>different cores may yield different results because they're not  
>synchronized at all times.

Not true.  The synchronization issue has two causes:  initial
synchronization at boot time, and power management making microscopic
adjustments to the clock rate.  In Windows NT 4, Microsoft took extra pains
to adjust the cycle counters on multiprocessor computers during boot so
that the processors started out very close together.  Once set, they
naturally remained in lock step, until aggressive power management because
more prevalent.  In XP, they stopped trying to align at boot time.

>Windows XP was launched in 2001, and the first dual core processors able  
>to execute Windows were AMD Opteron and IBM Pentium D, both launched  
>around April 2005 (and targeting the server market, not the home/desktop  
>market of Windows XP).
>How could MS know in 2001 of a hardware issue that would happen four years  
>in the future?

No, you're underestimating the problem.  The issue occurs just as much in
machines with multiple processor chips, which was supported clear back in
the original NT 3.1, 1992.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:34:36 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<7tofmbFdmjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a08b8037-29ef-4638-9062-c407000dc026@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 1:17?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" wrote:

> However, maybe
>
> if os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()):

OK, this works in Python 2:

#!/usr/bin/python
import sys, os

if __name__=="__main__":
 if os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()):
  print "Terminal"
 else:
  print "Content-type:text/html\n\nBROWSER"


likewise in Python3:

#!/usr/local/bin/python3.1
import sys, os

if __name__=="__main__":
 if os.isatty(sys.stdout.fileno()):
  print("Terminal")
 else:
  print("Content-type:text/html\n\nBROWSER")


Thank you, always impressed with the fast help here.

-- Gnarlie


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 15:37:57 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:37:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python and http POST
References: <811cc10d-d6da-4b2a-afea-0778263a23fc@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2423.1265961606.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5df948ae-db27-4dc4-9ceb-c0777fca7678@28g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all for your responses, and Javier thank you for your longer
response. I've just downloaded mechanize and beautifulsoup and will
start to play around.

>From a pure learning standpoint, however, I'd really like to learn how
to use the python post method (without mechanize) to go to a webpage,
fill in a form, click 'submit', follow the redirect to the results
page, and download content.

For example, if I go to google.com, use firebug and click on the
search bar, the following HTML is highlighted:

<input value="" title="Google Search" class="lst" size="55" name="q"
maxlength="2048"
onblur="google&amp;&amp;google.fade&amp;&amp;google.fade()"
autocomplete="off">

So if I were to use the 'post' method, how can I tell from the code
above what the ID of the searchbar is? Is it 'value', 'name', or
neither?

Assuming that the ID is 'name', then to search google for the term
'olypmics' would the proper code be:

import httplib2
import urllib
data = {'q':'olympics'}
body = urllib.urlencode(data)
h = httplib2.Http()
resp, content = h.request("http://www.google.com", method="POST",
body=body)
print content;

Does content return the content of the 'search results' page? And if
not, how do I tell python to do that?
Finally, must I transmit headers, or are they optional?

Thanks all for your continued help!

Matt


On Feb 12, 2:59?am, Javier Collado <javier.coll... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I haven't used httplib2, but you can certainly use any other
> alternative to send HTTP requests:
> - urllib/urllib2
> - mechanize
>
> With regard to how do you find the form you're looking for, you may:
> - create the HTTP request on your own with urllib2. To find out what
> variables do you need to post, you can use tamperdata Firefox addon as
> suggested (I haven't used that one) or httpfox (I have and it works
> great).
> - use mechanize to locate the form for you, fill the data in and click
> on the submit button.
>
> Additionally, you may wan to scrape some data that may be useful for
> your requests. For that BeautifulSoup is good solution (with some
> Firebug help to visually locate what you're looking for).
>
> Best regards,
> ? ? Javier
>
> P.S. Some examples here:http://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-pythonhttp://www.packtpub.com/article/web-scraping-with-python-part-2
>
> 2010/2/11 galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com>:
>
> > Hey All,
>
> > Been teaching myself Python for a few weeks, and am trying to write a
> > program that will go to a url, enter a string in one of the search
> > fields, submit the search, and return the contents of the search
> > result.
>
> > I'm using httplib2.
>
> > My two particular questions:
>
> > 1) When I set my 'body' var, (i.e. 'body = {'query':'search_term'}),
> > how do I know what the particular key should be? In other words, how
> > do I tell python which form on the web page I'm visiting I'd like to
> > fill in? Do I simply go to the webpage itself and look at the html
> > source? But if that's the case, which tag tells me the name of the
> > key?
>
> > 2) Even once python fills in the form properly, how can I tell it to
> > 'submit' the search?
>
> > Thanks all!
>
> > Matt
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>



From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Sat Feb 13 17:19:17 2010
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 14:19:17 -0800
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
In-Reply-To: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl78h4$lto$1@ger.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Gnarlodious wrote:
> I want to have a script
> output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.

You may also want to look into urwid.  It provides you with a text console
interface but can also provide HTML.  It has widgets like text boxes, lists,
tick boxes etc.

Roger

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkt3JWUACgkQmOOfHg372QRifACfYKS7+bmt6F3WPXYatM7yKVcs
knMAoLx5sJ3lFmofrrgHaS3aYOBAun0d
=Nxd4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From bblais at bryant.edu  Sat Feb 13 17:32:15 2010
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:32:15 -0500
Subject: multiprocessing and games
In-Reply-To: <4B76E759.3010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>
	<4B76E759.3010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <694A55DA-6557-486A-A0D5-B3B19C8B2D6F@bryant.edu>

On Feb 13, 2010, at 12:54 , MRAB wrote:

> Brian Blais wrote:
>> I've been thinking about implementing some simple games

> Forget about global variables, they're not worth it! :-)
>
> Think in terms of messages, sent via pipes, sockets or multiprocessing
> queues.
>


okay...let's make this concrete.  given your ideas, I have it working  
for the first type of agent, namely one that is called like:

	move=agent(board,player)

For a specific example, I'm using the simplest version of a game  
called Nim.  You start with a number of sticks, players take turns  
taking 1, 2, or 3 sticks, and you lose if you take the last stick.   
Two agents for this are:

# agent1.py - simple take 1 agent
def agent(board,player):
     return 1

# agent2.py - perfect player
def agent(board,player):
     move=(board-1)%4
     if move==0:
         return 1
     else:
         return move

I run my simulator like (complete code below):

s=Sim('agent1','agent2')
winner=s.run()

and it spawns two processes, passes messages between the sim and the  
agents, and closes the agents nicely when the game is over.  I'm not  
sure how I catch errors in the agents, especially accidental infinite  
loops.

Now the second type of agent is structured differently.  I'd like  
something like:

# agent3.py - simple take 1 agent
def agent(state):

     while True:
         Take(1)

# agent4.py - perfect player
def agent(state):

     N=state['board']  # get the current information
     while True:
         move=(N-1)%4
         if move==0:
             Take(1)
         else:
             Take(move)

I tried to implement this in the second wrapper below, but I can't  
get the agent function to "see" local functions in the wrapper.  I  
probably need an import somewhere, but I haven't quite figured out  
the scoping with multiprocessing, etc...

I include the code below.  The two message-passing wrappers are  
there, and it works for the first two agents, but not the second two  
because of scoping issues.

Is there a better way to be doing this?  Are there other examples  
like this that I can look at to improve what I am doing?


		thanks,

			Brian Blais

-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
http://bblais.blogspot.com/



# testing multiprocessing with games
from __future__ import with_statement
from multiprocessing import Pipe,Process


def wrap_agent(connection,fname):
     agent_module = __import__(fname)

     end=False
     while not end:
         state=connection.recv()
         if state['done']:
             break

         move=agent_module.agent(state['board'],state['player'])

         connection.send(move)

     print "%s done" % fname
     connection.close()

def wrap_agent2(connection,fname):

     def Take(T):
         state1=connection.recv()
         state.update(state1)
         if state['done']:
             raise ValueError  # should probably use a custom exception

         move=T
         connection.send(move)

     execfile(fname+".py")
     print locals()  # seems to appear in locals


     state=connection.recv()
     if state['done']:
         print "%s done" % fname
         connection.close()
         return

     try:
         agent(state)
     except ValueError:
         pass

     print "%s done" % fname
     connection.close()



class Sim(object):

     def __init__(self,agent1,agent2,type=1):

         self.agent_files=[agent1,agent2]
         self.type=type

     def run(self):
         self.processes=[]
         self.connections=[]
         for fname in self.agent_files:
             parent,child=Pipe()
             self.connections.append(parent)

             if self.type==1:
                 proc=Process(target=wrap_agent, args=(child,fname,))
             else:
                 proc=Process(target=wrap_agent2, args=(child,fname,))

             self.processes.append(proc)

         for proc in self.processes:
             proc.start()

         current_player,other_player=1,2
         N=23

         state={}

         while N>1:

             state['board']=N
             state['player']=current_player
             state['done']=False

             c=self.connections[current_player-1]

             print "Number of sticks: ",N
             c.send(state)
             move=c.recv()
             print "Player ",current_player,"takes ",move

             N-=move
             current_player,other_player=other_player,current_player

         print "Number of sticks: ",N

         # send the end signals
         state['done']=True
         for c in self.connections:
             c.send(state)
         for p in self.processes:
             p.join()

         if N==1:
             winner=other_player
         else:
             winner=current_player

         print "Winner is ",winner
         return winner

if __name__=="__main__":

     s=Sim('agent1','agent2')
     winner=s.run()
     print "============"
     s=Sim('agent3','agent4',type=2)
     winner=s.run()


  
    
-------------- next part --------------
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From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 13 17:50:38 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:50:38 -0600
Subject: Py3: Terminal or browser output?
References: <5870ec4a-59e6-4606-82de-daa06673be6a@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87pr48agxt.fsf@castleamber.com>

Gnarlodious <gnarlodious at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello, searched all over but no success. I want to have a script
> output HTML if run in a browser and plain text if run in a Terminal.
> In Python 2, I just said this:
>
> if len(sys.argv)==True:
>
> and it seemed to work. Py3 must have broken that by sending a list
> with the path to the script in BOTH the browser and Terminal. Is there
> some newfangled way to determine what is running the script (hopefully
> without a try wrapper)?

Your web server (assuming CGI) sets some environment variables, which
you could test for. This has as advantage (or disadvantage) that you can
set the variable at the CLI and see the output the browser could get.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 17:56:58 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:56:58 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Michael Sparks:
> 
[Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it 
all!), I felt it necessary to respond. It turned out to be a long sequence of 
trivial fallacies, peppered with various allegations and insinuations.]


[snip extremely much]

> Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
> 
> Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
> is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
> (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
> 
> There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
> which can be found here:
> 
> http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/
> 
> This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
> 
> Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
> therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
> The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
> and pointers.

At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.

If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about 
pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.

But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell must be 
some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing complete  --  is that 
acceptable to you?


> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation
> will be passing a reference or pointer" is invalid. There is
> after all at least one implementation that does not rely on
> such machine oriented language details.

I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.

And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.

There is need to talk about "in reality" (as if the language spec and general 
semantics isn't real enough) nor to talk about any specific implementation.


[snip very much]

> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you,
> since that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and
> puts into context the responses you have gained from others.
> 
> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE
> ALL WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one
> does not to understand what one is talking about does not
> tend to engender warm fluffy feelings or sentiments of
> authority towards such an individual. Be it me, you, or
> anyone else.
> 
> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a
> behaviour. Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't
> care about  my viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it
> if you would try not to be inflammatory in your response
> to this. (Since you do appear to also have a need to have
> the last word)
> 
> Hoping this was useful on some level,

Yes.

I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you presented.

The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python, shared, 
however, the basic property of being logical fallacies packaged in kilometers of 
rambling text.


Cheers,

- Alf


From vahuja4 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 18:44:37 2010
From: vahuja4 at gmail.com (Vish)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 15:44:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hashing in python
Message-ID: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I need to hash 3d coordinates to a grid which has been divided into
4*4*4 squares. Using python, I thought of a simple way as follows:

CELL_SIZE = 4

def key(point):

    return (
        int((floor(point[0]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
        int((floor(point[1]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
        int((floor(point[2]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE)
    )


Since python allows keys to be tuples, I think that this should work.
Is there a better (more efficient) way to do it?

Thank you,
Vishal


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 13 18:54:52 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:52 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl7e4k$41c$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Michael Sparks:
> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it all!)
[...]
>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>> details.
> 
> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
> 
> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
> 
I see we are still all out of step with you. If it's a fallacy then I'd
like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.

As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.

You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
you) paranoid.

[...]
> 
>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, 
>> since that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>> 
>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>> 
>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>> also have a need to have the last word)
>> 
>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
> 
> Yes.
> 
> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
> presented.
> 
> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python, 
> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
> 
And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it. It
makes me wonder why we have paid you the compliment of engaging you in
debate, since this is the most transparent evidence to date that what
comes back will be unrelated to the arguments presented.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 13 19:43:34 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 00:43:34 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b774736$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 07:59:42 -0800, Michael Sparks wrote:

> Now, if I define a language, this has 3 main parts:
>    * Syntax
>    * Semantics
>    * Implementation
[snip]

Michael, that is remarkable. Excellent work, thank you!

-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 19:47:18 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:47:18 +0000
Subject: Hashing in python
In-Reply-To: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B774816.4040103@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Vish wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I need to hash 3d coordinates to a grid which has been divided into
> 4*4*4 squares. Using python, I thought of a simple way as follows:
> 
> CELL_SIZE = 4
> 
> def key(point):
> 
>     return (
>         int((floor(point[0]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
>         int((floor(point[1]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
>         int((floor(point[2]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE)
>     )
> 
> 
> Since python allows keys to be tuples, I think that this should work.
> Is there a better (more efficient) way to do it?
> 
floor(x) returns an integer, so floor(x/CELL_SIZE)*CELL_SIZE is an
integer multiple of CELL_SIZE, also an integer. There's actually no
point (unintentional pun!) to multiplying by CELL_SIZE:

CELL_SIZE = 4

def key(point):
     return (
         floor(point[0] / CELL_SIZE),
         floor(point[1] / CELL_SIZE),
         floor(point[2] / CELL_SIZE)
     )



From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Sat Feb 13 19:48:31 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:48:31 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
Message-ID: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>

Hi,

I'm constantly working in the command line and need to write a program
to give me alerts on my battery. Can someone please tell me what module
I should use to access battery information? Looking for something that
perhaps makes use of acpi so I can get estimated time left as well as a
percentage.

Thanks very much for any help,
Dan


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 19:50:01 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:50:01 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Michael Sparks:
>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to read it all!)
> [...]
>>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>>> details.
>> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
>>
>> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
>>
> I see we are still all out of step with you.

Why did you snip the short argument?


> If it's a fallacy then I'd
> like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.

Oh, you snipped it so that you didn't have to present it to readers.

That's dishonest, Steve Holden.

Requoting:

<quote>
 > Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
 >
 > Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
 > is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
 > (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
 >
 > There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
 > which can be found here:
 >
 > http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/
 >
 > This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
 >
 > Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
 > therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
 > The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
 > and pointers.

At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.

If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about 
pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.

But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell must be 
some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing complete  --  is that 
acceptable to you?
<quote>


> As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
> use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
> neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
> an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.

That's meaningless.

But then so is maintaining that Python doesn't have references.

And so is your argument applied to Pascal, just to mention that again.


> You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
> misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
> you) paranoid.

On top of the multiple fallacies, dubious snipping of arguments, statements that 
such arguments have not been presented (just after snipping them), and general 
misleading insinuations and misrepresentation, ad yet another bit of personal 
attack.

Do you understand what that may say to readers about you, Steve Holden?

Apparently it's all to defend an indefensible, idiotic position. But I think 
you're doing it at least partially for the fun of harassing someone.


> [...]
>>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, 
>>> since that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>>>
>>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>>>
>>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>>> also have a need to have the last word)
>>>
>>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
>> Yes.
>>
>> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
>> presented.
>>
>> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python, 
>> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
>> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
>>
> And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it.

No, you can not quote any place I have said that I haven't read his article. I 
did read most of it. So you are yet again within the span of one posted article 
presenting untrue information that you know is not true.


> It
> makes me wonder why we have paid you the compliment of engaging you in
> debate,

Gosh, I don't know. You must be stupid to do that. Yes?


> since this is the most transparent evidence to date that what
> comes back will be unrelated to the arguments presented.

That is untrue, Steve Holden, and since you can't quote that "evidence", since 
you evidently /have/ read my short article which you're responding to, knowing 
exactly what to snip, you know that what you're saying is untrue. I think this 
is your third lie in one posting. But who would care to count.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sat Feb 13 19:56:16 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:56:16 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002131656lb8f165dt4b71cfed73b7d5be@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>
> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.
>
> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about
> pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
>
> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell must
> be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing complete ?--
> ?is that acceptable to you?
> <quote>
>

You're actually just proving his point here. It doesn't matter what
model Haskell uses, a version of Pascal implemented in Haskell has
pointers. Likewise, regardless of what model the implementation of
Python uses, Python itself doesn't have pointers, it has objects and
names.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Feb 13 20:01:20 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 01:01:20 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl7i04$c9m$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Michael Sparks:
>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to 
>>> read it all!)
>> [...]
>>>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>>>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>>>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>>>> details.
>>> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
>>>
>>> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
>>>
>> I see we are still all out of step with you.
> 
> Why did you snip the short argument?
> 
> 
>> If it's a fallacy then I'd
>> like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.
> 
> Oh, you snipped it so that you didn't have to present it to readers.
> 
> That's dishonest, Steve Holden.
> 
> Requoting:
> 
> <quote>
>  > Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
>  >
>  > Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
>  > is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
>  > (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
>  >
>  > There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
>  > which can be found here:
>  >
>  > 
> http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/ 
> 
>  >
>  > This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
>  >
>  > Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
>  > therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
>  > The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
>  > and pointers.
> 
> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in 
> Haskell.
> 
> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions 
> about pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
> 
> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell 
> must be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing 
> complete  --  is that acceptable to you?
> <quote>
> 
> 
>> As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
>> use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
>> neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
>> an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.
> 
> That's meaningless.
> 
> But then so is maintaining that Python doesn't have references.
> 
> And so is your argument applied to Pascal, just to mention that again.
> 
> 
>> You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
>> misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
>> you) paranoid.
> 
> On top of the multiple fallacies, dubious snipping of arguments, 
> statements that such arguments have not been presented (just after 
> snipping them), and general misleading insinuations and 
> misrepresentation, ad yet another bit of personal attack.
> 
> Do you understand what that may say to readers about you, Steve Holden?
> 
> Apparently it's all to defend an indefensible, idiotic position. But I 
> think you're doing it at least partially for the fun of harassing someone.
> 
> 
>> [...]
>>>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, since 
>>>> that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>>>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>>>>
>>>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>>>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>>>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>>>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>>>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>>>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>>>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>>>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>>>> also have a need to have the last word)
>>>>
>>>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
>>> presented.
>>>
>>> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python, 
>>> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
>>> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
>>>
>> And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it.
> 
> No, you can not quote any place I have said that I haven't read his 
> article. I did read most of it. So you are yet again within the span of 
> one posted article presenting untrue information that you know is not true.
> 
> 
>> It
>> makes me wonder why we have paid you the compliment of engaging you in
>> debate,
> 
> Gosh, I don't know. You must be stupid to do that. Yes?
> 
> 
>> since this is the most transparent evidence to date that what
>> comes back will be unrelated to the arguments presented.
> 
> That is untrue, Steve Holden, and since you can't quote that "evidence", 
> since you evidently /have/ read my short article which you're responding 
> to, knowing exactly what to snip, you know that what you're saying is 
> untrue. I think this is your third lie in one posting. But who would 
> care to count.
> 
> 
> Cheers & hth.,
> 
> - Alf

You really are the most insulting arrogant bastard I've ever read on 
c.l.py in the eight years that I've been using Python.  Did you get your 
training at the Dr Goebbels School of Propaganda?

Most disgustedly.

Mark Lawrence



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 20:21:51 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:21:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
Message-ID: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
the user choose.

I think this should be quite straightforward.

How should I proceed?


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 13 20:26:02 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:26:02 -0800
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Daniel Dalton <d.dalton at iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm constantly working in the command line and need to write a program
> to give me alerts on my battery. Can someone please tell me what module
> I should use to access battery information? Looking for something that
> perhaps makes use of acpi so I can get estimated time left as well as a
> percentage.

It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 20:28:13 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:28:13 +0100
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
In-Reply-To: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* vsoler:
> Hi,
> 
> My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
> would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
> needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
> Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
> the user choose.
> 
> I think this should be quite straightforward.
> 
> How should I proceed?

At least in Windows one easy way is to delegate that responsibility to the 
Windows shell. When a user drags a file onto your script, your script is run 
with the path to that dragged file as argument. Or it can even be multiple files.

Otherwise, tkinter has, as I recall, a standard file chooser dialog.

These "standard" dialogs are generally called "common dialogs".

Just google for tkinter and suitable words.



Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 20:29:49 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:59:49 +0530
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002131729n1d6e13b2pab7ddb5fd41b7a5b@mail.gmail.com>

I too am interested as to which module should I use. My OS is OS X Snow
Leopard.

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Daniel Dalton <d.dalton at iinet.net.au>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm constantly working in the command line and need to write a program
> > to give me alerts on my battery. Can someone please tell me what module
> > I should use to access battery information? Looking for something that
> > perhaps makes use of acpi so I can get estimated time left as well as a
> > percentage.
>
> It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 20:31:33 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:31:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

This thread is interesting on many levels.  What is the core question
that is being examined here?


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 20:34:11 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:34:11 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2515.1266109349.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2515.1266109349.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl7jqs$c9f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Benjamin Kaplan:
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in Haskell.
>>
>> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions about
>> pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
>>
>> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell must
>> be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing complete  --
>>  is that acceptable to you?
>> <quote>
>>
> 
> You're actually just proving his point here. It doesn't matter what
> model Haskell uses, a version of Pascal implemented in Haskell has
> pointers.

Yes, that kills his argument.

As you note, the Haskell bit is completely irrelevant.

So his use of Haskell implementation as a "no pointers" argument is completely 
bogus, a fallacy.


> Likewise, regardless of what model the implementation of
> Python uses, Python itself doesn't have pointers, it has objects and
> names.

Well that's wrong for at least one general meaning of "pointer", but why quibble 
about terminology?

Names in Python refer to objects.

Those references can be copied via assignment.

That's (almost) all.

And it provides a very short and neat way to describe pass by sharing.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Feb 13 20:37:08 2010
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:37:08 +1100
Subject: threading and signals - main thread solely responsible for
	signal handling?
In-Reply-To: <20100213172226.26099.213963272.divmod.xquotient.1291@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20100213172226.26099.213963272.divmod.xquotient.1291@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20100214013708.GA4636@cskk.homeip.net>

On 13Feb2010 17:22, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com <exarkun at twistedmatrix.com> wrote:
| On 04:43 pm, maligree at gmail.com wrote:
| >The main part of my script is a function that does many long reads
| >(urlopen, it's looped). Since I'm hell-bent on employing SIGINFO to
| >display some stats, I needed to run foo() as a seperate thread to
| >avoid getting errno 4 (interrupted system call) errors (which occur if
| >SIGINFO is received while urlopen is setting itself up/waiting for a
| >response). This does the job, SIGINFO is handled without ever brutally
| >interrupting urlopen.
| >
| >The problem is that after starting foo as a thread, my main thread has
| >nothing left to do - unless it receives a signal, and I am forced to
| >keep it in some sort of loop so that ANY signal handling can still
| >occur. I thought I'd just occupy it with a simple while 1: pass loop
| >but that, unfortunately, means 100% CPU usage.
[...]
| 
| MRAB suggested you time.sleep() in a loop, which is probably fine.
| However, if you want to have even /less/ activity than that in the
| main thread, take a look at signal.pause().

Funnily enough I coded this issue just a few weeks ago, and my main
program looks like this:

  def main(argv):
    xit = 0
    cmd = os.path.basename(argv[0])
    SM = SystemManager()
    [...set up a bunch of subsystems...]
    SM.startAll()
    try:
      signal.pause()
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
      warn("KeyboardInterrupt interrupts pause()")
      xit = 1
    SM.close()
    SM.join()
    return xit

So SM.close() tells all the subsystems to close and finish up.  That largely
involved putting the "EOF" sentinel value on a lot of Queues, causes the
subsystems to cease processing stuff.  The separate SM.join() does the actaul
waiting for everything.

This makes for clean and timely shutdown for me.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

If your new theorem can be stated with great simplicity, then there
will exist a pathological exception.    - Adrian Mathesis


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 20:38:40 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:38:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <381a8d2e-1212-4b26-a1d5-7370d23bfbb1@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 2:28?am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * vsoler:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
> > would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
> > needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
> > Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
> > the user choose.
>
> > I think this should be quite straightforward.
>
> > How should I proceed?
>
> At least in Windows one easy way is to delegate that responsibility to the
> Windows shell. When a user drags a file onto your script, your script is run
> with the path to that dragged file as argument. Or it can even be multiple files.
>
> Otherwise, tkinter has, as I recall, a standard file chooser dialog.
>
> These "standard" dialogs are generally called "common dialogs".
>
> Just google for tkinter and suitable words.
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

I'll try, thank you very much


From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Sat Feb 13 20:43:24 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:43:24 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 05:26:02PM -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
> It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?

Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux. 

Thanks,
Dan


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 20:43:29 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:43:29 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl7kca$g7g$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Howell:
> This thread is interesting on many levels.  What is the core question
> that is being examined here?

I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers to an 
object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the reference can be copied, 
and that the semantics of the language requires this and is defined in terms of 
this. Steve Holden, D'Aprano and many others maintain that there are no 
references, or that if there are then they're only an implementation aspect, 
i.e. that conceiveable one could have an implementation without them.

Regarding some other issues it seems to be a childish exercise in flaming, a 
flame war, with claims of insanity, incompetence, lying (that's actually from 
me, I reacted a bit strongly to faked quoting + conclusions from that in a 
posting not appearing on Usenet but on the Python mail list), etc. etc. ad 
nauseam, sprinkled with misrepresentations etc. I don't know the point of that.


Cheers,

- Alf


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 13 20:44:47 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:44:47 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl7kio$h5h$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Holden:
>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>> * Michael Sparks:
>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
>>> read it all!)
>> [...]
>>>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>>>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>>>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>>>> details.
>>> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
>>>
>>> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
>>>
>> I see we are still all out of step with you.
> 
> Why did you snip the short argument?
> 
Because it's irrelevant and fallacious.
> 
>> If it's a fallacy then I'd
>> like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.
> 
> Oh, you snipped it so that you didn't have to present it to readers.
> 
> That's dishonest, Steve Holden.
> 
> Requoting:
> 
> <quote>
>> Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
>>
>> Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
>> is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
>> (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
>>
>> There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
>> which can be found here:
>>
>>
> http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/
> 
>>
>> This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
>>
>> Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
>> therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
>> The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
>> and pointers.
> 
> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in
> Haskell.
> 
> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions
> about pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
> 
> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell
> must be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing
> complete  --  is that acceptable to you?
> <quote>
> 
This, if it says anything at all, appears to say that any
Turing-complete language has pointers in it, which is an absurdity.
> 
>> As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
>> use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
>> neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
>> an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.
> 
> That's meaningless.
> 
> But then so is maintaining that Python doesn't have references.
> 
> And so is your argument applied to Pascal, just to mention that again.
> 
*You* brought Pascal into this, not me.
> 
>> You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
>> misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
>> you) paranoid.
> 
> On top of the multiple fallacies, dubious snipping of arguments,
> statements that such arguments have not been presented (just after
> snipping them), and general misleading insinuations and
> misrepresentation, ad yet another bit of personal attack.
> 
> Do you understand what that may say to readers about you, Steve Holden?
> 
I'm happy to let readers draw their own conclusions about us both.

> Apparently it's all to defend an indefensible, idiotic position. But I
> think you're doing it at least partially for the fun of harassing someone.
>
Not at all. You have accused me of bullying behavior, but  in truth you
are the bully, and we know what happens when you give in to bullies,
don't we?
> 
>> [...]
>>>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, since
>>>> that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>>>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>>>>
>>>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>>>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>>>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>>>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>>>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>>>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>>>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>>>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>>>> also have a need to have the last word)
>>>>
>>>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
>>> presented.
>>>
>>> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python,
>>> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
>>> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
>>>
>> And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it.
> 
> No, you can not quote any place I have said that I haven't read his
> article. I did read most of it. So you are yet again within the span of
> one posted article presenting untrue information that you know is not true.
> 
I repeat the quote from you which you can read at the top of this post:
>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
>>> read it all!)
>> [...]
So now you say you read "most" of it. Even this statement is an
admission that there are parts you did not, and yet somehow *I* am the
liar? We are moving from the bizarre to the delusional here.
> 
>> It
>> makes me wonder why we have paid you the compliment of engaging you in
>> debate,
> 
> Gosh, I don't know. You must be stupid to do that. Yes?
> 
Apparently.
> 
>> since this is the most transparent evidence to date that what
>> comes back will be unrelated to the arguments presented.
> 
> That is untrue, Steve Holden, and since you can't quote that "evidence",
> since you evidently /have/ read my short article which you're responding
> to, knowing exactly what to snip, you know that what you're saying is
> untrue. I think this is your third lie in one posting. But who would
> care to count.
> 
Who indeed?
> 
> Cheers & hth.,
> 
That signature surely has to be irony.

Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 13 20:45:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 01:45:03 GMT
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b77559f$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:21:51 -0800, vsoler wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I would
> like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he needs to
> work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in Excel, that is,
> I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let the user choose.
> 
> I think this should be quite straightforward.

Python is multi-platform. Having the Windows file selection dialogs 
appear under Linux or Mac is anything but straightforward! The only 
general purpose (non-operating system specific) solution will require a 
GUI toolkit.

 
> How should I proceed?


>>> import tkFileDialog
>>> help(tkFileDialog)


See also:
http://docs.python.org/library/tkinter.html
http://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming

or google on "python display file dialog".


-- 
Steven


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 20:45:32 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:45:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <96255e38-b30b-42f2-9cd4-baa6a7b7eeb9@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 7:28?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * vsoler:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
> > would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
> > needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
> > Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
> > the user choose.
>
> > I think this should be quite straightforward.
>
> > How should I proceed?
>
> At least in Windows one easy way is to delegate that responsibility to the
> Windows shell. When a user drags a file onto your script, your script is run
> with the path to that dragged file as argument. Or it can even be multiple files.
>
> Otherwise, tkinter has, as I recall, a standard file chooser dialog.
>
> These "standard" dialogs are generally called "common dialogs".

specifically Alf was referring to tkFileDialog.askopenfilename().
Heres an example...


import Tkinter as tk
from tkFileDialog import askopenfilename

root = tk.Tk()

def get_files():
    path = askopenfilename(filetypes=[('TXT', '.txt')])
    if path:
        print path

tk.Button(root, text='1', font=('Wingdings', 12),
command=get_files).pack(padx=5, pady=5)

root.mainloop()



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 21:00:03 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:00:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<96255e38-b30b-42f2-9cd4-baa6a7b7eeb9@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <89f86e28-0ed3-4232-b489-db088d320658@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 2:45?am, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 7:28?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>
>
>
> > * vsoler:
>
> > > Hi,
>
> > > My python script needs to work with a .txt file in a directory. I
> > > would like to give the user the possibility to choose the file he
> > > needs to work on in as much the same way as I open a .xls file in
> > > Excel, that is, I want to make appear the "Windows'" window and let
> > > the user choose.
>
> > > I think this should be quite straightforward.
>
> > > How should I proceed?
>
> > At least in Windows one easy way is to delegate that responsibility to the
> > Windows shell. When a user drags a file onto your script, your script is run
> > with the path to that dragged file as argument. Or it can even be multiple files.
>
> > Otherwise, tkinter has, as I recall, a standard file chooser dialog.
>
> > These "standard" dialogs are generally called "common dialogs".
>
> specifically Alf was referring to tkFileDialog.askopenfilename().
> Heres an example...
>
> import Tkinter as tk
> from tkFileDialog import askopenfilename
>
> root = tk.Tk()
>
> def get_files():
> ? ? path = askopenfilename(filetypes=[('TXT', '.txt')])
> ? ? if path:
> ? ? ? ? print path
>
> tk.Button(root, text='1', font=('Wingdings', 12),
> command=get_files).pack(padx=5, pady=5)
>
> root.mainloop()

Excellent!!! Just what I needed!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 21:01:50 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:01:50 +0000
Subject: multiprocessing and games
In-Reply-To: <694A55DA-6557-486A-A0D5-B3B19C8B2D6F@bryant.edu>
References: <674C1392-D45E-4422-B91B-277CD02EA29B@bryant.edu>
	<4B76E759.3010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<694A55DA-6557-486A-A0D5-B3B19C8B2D6F@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <4B77598E.4010800@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Brian Blais wrote:
> On Feb 13, 2010, at 12:54 , MRAB wrote:
> 
>> Brian Blais wrote:
>>> I've been thinking about implementing some simple games
> 
>> Forget about global variables, they're not worth it! :-)
>>
>> Think in terms of messages, sent via pipes, sockets or multiprocessing
>> queues.
>>
> 
> okay...let's make this concrete.  given your ideas, I have it working 
> for the first type of agent, namely one that is called like:
> 
> move=agent(board,player)
> 
> For a specific example, I'm using the simplest version of a game called 
> Nim.  You start with a number of sticks, players take turns taking 1, 2, 
> or 3 sticks, and you lose if you take the last stick.  Two agents for 
> this are:
> 
> # agent1.py - simple take 1 agent
> def agent(board,player):
>     return 1    
>     
> # agent2.py - perfect player
> def agent(board,player):
>     move=(board-1)%4
>     if move==0:
>         return 1
>     else:
>         return move
>         
> I run my simulator like (complete code below):
> 
> s=Sim('agent1','agent2')
> winner=s.run()
> 
> and it spawns two processes, passes messages between the sim and the 
> agents, and closes the agents nicely when the game is over.  I'm not 
> sure how I catch errors in the agents, especially accidental infinite loops.
> 
> Now the second type of agent is structured differently.  I'd like 
> something like:
> 
> # agent3.py - simple take 1 agent
> def agent(state):
>     
>     while True:
>         Take(1)
> 
> # agent4.py - perfect player
> def agent(state):
> 
>     N=state['board']  # get the current information
>     while True:
>         move=(N-1)%4        
>         if move==0:
>             Take(1)
>         else:
>             Take(move)
>             
> I tried to implement this in the second wrapper below, but I can't get 
> the agent function to "see" local functions in the wrapper.  I probably 
> need an import somewhere, but I haven't quite figured out the scoping 
> with multiprocessing, etc...
> 
> I include the code below.  The two message-passing wrappers are there, 
> and it works for the first two agents, but not the second two because of 
> scoping issues.
> 
> Is there a better way to be doing this?  Are there other examples like 
> this that I can look at to improve what I am doing?
> 
[snip]
I would try to have more separation between the agents and the
simulator.

The simulator would start the agents, something like this:

     def run_agent(agent_name, connection):
         agent_module = __import__(agent_name)
         agent_module.run(agent_name, connection)

...

     for agent_name in self.agent_files:
         parent, child = Pipe()
         connections.append(parent)
         proc = Process(target=run_agent, args=(agent_name, child))
         processes.append(proc)

The logic for an agent would be in its own module:

agent1.py
---------

     def get_move(board, player):
         return 1

     def run(agent_name, connection):
         end = False
         while not end:
             state = connection.recv()
             if state['done']:
                 break

             move = get_move(state['board'], state['player'])

             connection.send(move)

         print "%s done" % agent_name

         connection.close()

If I wanted the agents to share some logic (functions) then I would put
it (them) in a common module which the agents would import.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 13 21:10:28 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 02:10:28 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7kca$g7g$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7kca$g7g$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B775B94.5030406@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * Steve Howell:
>> This thread is interesting on many levels.  What is the core question
>> that is being examined here?
> 
> I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers 
> to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the reference can 
> be copied, and that the semantics of the language requires this and is 
> defined in terms of this. Steve Holden, D'Aprano and many others 
> maintain that there are no references, or that if there are then they're 
> only an implementation aspect, i.e. that conceiveable one could have an 
> implementation without them.
> 
> Regarding some other issues it seems to be a childish exercise in 
> flaming, a flame war, with claims of insanity, incompetence, lying 
> (that's actually from me, I reacted a bit strongly to faked quoting + 
> conclusions from that in a posting not appearing on Usenet but on the 
> Python mail list), etc. etc. ad nauseam, sprinkled with 
> misrepresentations etc. I don't know the point of that.
> 
It's a pity that no-one has gone far enough to trigger Godwin's Law...
;-)


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 21:10:49 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 03:10:49 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2520.1266111920.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<hkr273$3k5$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1A6D5BDE4BDduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl7h82$mol$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2520.1266111920.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl7lvi$rc6$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>>>> * Michael Sparks:
>>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
>>>> read it all!)
>>> [...]
>>>>> Therefore to say "in reality the implementation will be passing a
>>>>> reference or pointer" is invalid. There is after all at least one
>>>>> implementation that does not rely on such machine oriented language
>>>>> details.
>>>> I'm sorry, but see above: in itself it's just yet another a fallacy.
>>>>
>>>> And as an argument in a debate with me it's misrepresenting.
>>>>
>>> I see we are still all out of step with you.
>> Why did you snip the short argument?
>>
> Because it's irrelevant and fallacious.
>>> If it's a fallacy then I'd
>>> like to see a reasoned logical explanation of its fallaciousness.
>> Oh, you snipped it so that you didn't have to present it to readers.
>>
>> That's dishonest, Steve Holden.
>>
>> Requoting:
>>
>> <quote>
>>> Now let's move to the implementation aspects.
>>>
>>> Python as a language is implemented in many languages. One of these
>>> is C. There are compilers to C (pypy), C++ (shedskin), for the JVM
>>> (Jython) and .net (Ironpython).
>>>
>>> There is also an executable operation semantics for python,
>>> which can be found here:
>>>
>>>
>> http://gideon.smdng.nl/2009/01/an-executable-operational-semantics-for-python/
>>
>>> This set of operational semantics is written in Haskell.
>>>
>>> Haskell is a strictly pure, lazily evaluated language. It
>>> therefore has no pointers or references, just values and names.
>>> The implementation therefore cannot be in terms of references
>>> and pointers.
>> At this point consider whether it's possible to implement Pascal in
>> Haskell.
>>
>> If it is possible, then you have a problem wrt. drawing conclusions
>> about pointers in Pascal, uh oh, they apparently can't exist.
>>
>> But if it is not possible to implement Pascal in Haskell, then Haskell
>> must be some etremely limited special-purpose language, not Turing
>> complete  --  is that acceptable to you?
>> <quote>
>>
> This, if it says anything at all, appears to say that any
> Turing-complete language has pointers in it, which is an absurdity.
>>> As far as I can see, if someone says "implementing Python implies the
>>> use of pointers" as you appear to be doing, then Michael's argument
>>> neatly demolishes that argument by providing a counter-example: there is
>>> an implementation of Python that does not use pointers.
>> That's meaningless.
>>
>> But then so is maintaining that Python doesn't have references.
>>
>> And so is your argument applied to Pascal, just to mention that again.
>>
> *You* brought Pascal into this, not me.

Of course. And so? Do you think that the/your argument applies to Pascal?

Just for your information, it does not work for Pascal.

Or any language. It is a fallacy. It does not say anything about Python, or 
Pascal, or any language.


>>> You, however, dismiss this as a fallacy, and suggests it somehow
>>> misrepresents you. And yet you wonder why people call your behavior (not
>>> you) paranoid.
>> On top of the multiple fallacies, dubious snipping of arguments,
>> statements that such arguments have not been presented (just after
>> snipping them), and general misleading insinuations and
>> misrepresentation, ad yet another bit of personal attack.
>>
>> Do you understand what that may say to readers about you, Steve Holden?
>>
> I'm happy to let readers draw their own conclusions about us both.

I guess you are. For it is invariably so that most readers recall by 
association, and a flood of flaming does yield an impression. As a technical 
argument it's a fallacy, but do you care? No.


>> Apparently it's all to defend an indefensible, idiotic position. But I
>> think you're doing it at least partially for the fun of harassing someone.
>>
> Not at all. You have accused me of bullying behavior, but  in truth you
> are the bully, and we know what happens when you give in to bullies,
> don't we?

After an uncountable number of flames of my person, many from you, I'm the 
bullied, or victim, so to speak; as such I'm not the bully.


>>> [...]
>>>>> I sincerely hope that my reply does not offend or inflame you, since
>>>>> that is not the intent. I do hope it educates you and puts
>>>>> into context the responses you have gained from others.
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, one simply shouting in a corner saying "YOU'RE ALL
>>>>> WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'M RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT", when one does not to
>>>>> understand what one is talking about does not tend to engender warm
>>>>> fluffy feelings or sentiments of authority towards such an
>>>>> individual. Be it me, you, or anyone else.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the moment, you appear to me to be engaging in such a behaviour.
>>>>> Now you don't know from Jack and probably don't care about  my
>>>>> viewpoint, but I would really appreciate it if you would try not to
>>>>> be inflammatory in your response to this. (Since you do appear to
>>>>> also have a need to have the last word)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hoping this was useful on some level,
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>> I elected to respond to just /one/ of the many arguments you
>>>> presented.
>>>>
>>>> The other arguments, about why there are no references in Python,
>>>> shared, however, the basic property of being logical fallacies
>>>> packaged in kilometers of rambling text.
>>>>
>>> And you can say this without, by your own admission, even reading it.
>> No, you can not quote any place I have said that I haven't read his
>> article. I did read most of it. So you are yet again within the span of
>> one posted article presenting untrue information that you know is not true.
>>
> I repeat the quote from you which you can read at the top of this post:
>>>> [Due to the appearance of reasoned discussion (it's not practical to
>>>> read it all!)
>>> [...]
> So now you say you read "most" of it.

I haven't said anything contradictory about that. If I had then you'd have 
quoted it. You don't quote anything, so you're out on your usual 
insinuate-things argumentation technique.


> Even this statement is an
> admission that there are parts you did not, and yet somehow *I* am the
> liar? We are moving from the bizarre to the delusional here.

I'm sorry that I had to point out your relating untrue information that you knew 
at the time was untrue.

That also applies to your snipping of the argument about Haskell, and subsequent 
asking for such arguments as if they hadn't been given  --  and snipped.

The poster explained at the start that he had some technically immaterial stuff 
at the end of his article. I don't know whether I reached that. But anyway, the 
article was just a series of fallacies like the one thinking an implementation 
in Haskell could prove anything about the language so implemented, all wrapped 
up in kilometers of rambling text.

Your attack of "bizarre" and "delusion" are the usual from Steve Holden.

You are injecting noise to bury an argument that you didn't like. You tried 
first snipping it from your response. Now you're trying the noise angle again.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 21:19:59 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:19:59 -0500
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002131819x4ba766dds245220760ef74ff1@mail.gmail.com>

You'll need acpi installed:

In [6]: import subprocess

In [7]: p = subprocess.Popen('acpi', stdout=subprocess.PIPE)

In [8]: output, errors = p.communicate()

In [9]: print output
------> print(output)
Battery 0: Full, 100%, rate information unavailable



On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Daniel Dalton <d.dalton at iinet.net.au>wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 05:26:02PM -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
> > It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
>
> Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 13 21:22:11 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 03:22:11 +0100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002131822w15f9bdc4t2bc2958fea2272ab@mail.gmail.com>

>> It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
>
> Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux.

I don't know about python modules but have a look at

/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info
/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state

You can parse the numbers you want from there.

HTH,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Feb 13 21:23:28 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:23:28 -0600
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
Message-ID: <4B775EA0.7080207@tim.thechases.com>

Daniel Dalton wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 05:26:02PM -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
>> It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
> 
> Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux. 

You should be able to read/poll the various files in

   /proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/*

for whatever battery information you need.  Each BAT* directory 
contains information about one of the batteries in the system 
(it's possible, albeit rare, to have more than one).  So you 
might have some script that runs every $INTERVAL that looks 
something like

   from glob import glob
   for fname in glob('/proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/*'):
     f = file(fname)
     for line in f:
       do_something(line)
     f.close()

On my Debian laptop (Gateway Solo 1200, OEM battery circa 2001), 
the contents look something like

tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat alarm
alarm:                   unsupported
tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat info
present:                 yes
design capacity:         4016 mAh
last full capacity:      4011 mAh
battery technology:      rechargeable
design voltage:          9600 mV
design capacity warning: 602 mAh
design capacity low:     401 mAh
capacity granularity 1:  201 mAh
capacity granularity 2:  3409 mAh
model number:            QT08
serial number:           SANYOQT08
battery type:            NiMH
OEM info:                SANYO
tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat state
present:                 yes
capacity state:          ok
charging state:          charged
present rate:            unknown
remaining capacity:      4011 mAh
present voltage:         9600 mV



-tkc




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 21:29:17 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 18:29:17 -0800
Subject: To (monkey)patch or not to (monkey)patch, that is the question
References: <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl7n5t$s5i$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <1410d2e2-a6f2-4b6c-a745-6d3e34994568 at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
>
George Sakkis  <george.sakkis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I was talking to a colleague about one rather unexpected/undesired
>(though not buggy) behavior of some package we use. Although there is
>an easy fix (or at least workaround) on our end without any apparent
>side effect, he strongly suggested extending the relevant code by hard
>patching it and posting the patch upstream, hopefully to be accepted
>at some point in the future. In fact we maintain patches against
>specific versions of several packages that are applied automatically
>on each new build. The main argument is that this is the right thing
>to do, as opposed to an "ugly" workaround or a fragile monkey patch.
>On the other hand, I favor practicality over purity and my general
>rule of thumb is that "no patch" > "monkey patch" > "hard patch", at
>least for anything less than a (critical) bug fix.
>
>So I'm wondering if there is a consensus on when it's better to (hard)
>patch, monkey patch or just try to work around a third party package
>that doesn't do exactly what one would like. Does it have mainly to do
>with the reason for the patch (e.g. fixing a bug, modifying behavior,
>adding missing feature), the given package (size, complexity,
>maturity, developer responsiveness), something else or there are no
>general rules and one should decide on a case-by-case basis ?

There's a related option that I chose for SQLObject: extending by using
internal APIs.  Because SQLite doesn't work well with multiple writers
(or even multiple readers with one writer when queries take a long time),
we needed a retry mechanism when a query failed.  I originally tried
proxying the SQLite class, but that ran into problems partly related to
new-style classes grabbing magic methods directly from the class, and
subclassing and using the internal registration API turned out to be
easier.  The only change required in the existing code was to change the
connection string to "sqlite_retry:".

Then I ran into build problems because some machines were on SQLObject
0.10.x and others were on 0.11.x and the internal API changed between
those versions.  It was easily fixed by upgrading everything to 0.11.x,
but it's a reminder about the fragility of relying on internal APIs.

If that's not an option in your case, personally I'd prefer
monkey-patching because otherwise I need to check the package into my
repository.  Submitting a patch upstream would be responsible behavior.

Overall, I think that this is definitely an issue where heuristics work
much better than rules.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 13 21:41:42 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Feb 2010 18:41:42 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hl6ilk$f7h$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>
>My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
>didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
>references.

Assuming this is what you're referring to:

    Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.

Then you are simply, completely, totally, and absolutely wrong.  Period.
Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
programming language does not have pointers.  
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 21:43:20 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:43:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Selecting a file in a directory
References: <9b099d4e-f5bb-4860-a2dd-6a2cb4143cd6@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7jfm$7ld$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<96255e38-b30b-42f2-9cd4-baa6a7b7eeb9@j31g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<89f86e28-0ed3-4232-b489-db088d320658@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2f487e21-8320-41ec-b4e3-cf51e7a198d4@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 8:00?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 2:45?am, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:

(..snip..)

> Excellent!!! Just what I needed!

For your case, since it seems you are writing a "console type"
application you may want to subdue the root window and show the user a
file dialog window *only*. You can do this by using "root.withdraw()"
to hide the root window. Just make sure to destroy the root window
after the users is finished choosing their file (or at some
appropriate time later) or else your program will not exit gracefully
at close time...!

Heres a way to wrap the whole enchilada into a reusable function, of
course many refinements could
be made but this is a simplistic version...

#-- start script --#
# works on python < 3.0
import Tkinter as tk
from tkFileDialog import askopenfilename

def showFileDialog():
    root = tk.Tk()
    root.withdraw()
    path = askopenfilename(filetypes=[('TXT', '.txt')])
    if path:
        print path
        # do something useful here...
    root.destroy()
    root.mainloop()


showFileDialog()
raw_input('press enter to quit...')
#-- end script --#


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 21:54:34 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 6:41?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <hl6ilk$f7... at news.eternal-september.org>,
> Alf P. Steinbach <al... at start.no> wrote:
>
>
>
> >My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
> >didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
> >references.
>
> Assuming this is what you're referring to:
>
> ? ? Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
>
> Then you are simply, completely, totally, and absolutely wrong. ?Period.
> Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
> programming language does not have pointers. ?

I agree with your statement for a suitably narrow definition of the
words "pointer" and "have."


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 22:04:28 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:04:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<hksesi$scv$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1> 
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl7ak4$srb$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2511.1266105324.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<7007f5ae-2c15-4af7-be5c-71cd650c7a06@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl7kca$g7g$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2522.1266113426.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a61e7bea-adab-4cea-bd9e-940c189280df@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 6:10?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> > * Steve Howell:
> >> This thread is interesting on many levels. ?What is the core question
> >> that is being examined here?
>
> > I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name refers
> > to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the reference can
> > be copied, and that the semantics of the language requires this and is
> > defined in terms of this. Steve Holden, D'Aprano and many others
> > maintain that there are no references, or that if there are then they're
> > only an implementation aspect, i.e. that conceiveable one could have an
> > implementation without them.
>
> > Regarding some other issues it seems to be a childish exercise in
> > flaming, a flame war, with claims of insanity, incompetence, lying
> > (that's actually from me, I reacted a bit strongly to faked quoting +
> > conclusions from that in a posting not appearing on Usenet but on the
> > Python mail list), etc. etc. ad nauseam, sprinkled with
> > misrepresentations etc. I don't know the point of that.
>
> It's a pity that no-one has gone far enough to trigger Godwin's Law...
> ;-)

Godwin's Law need not be invoked here.  The essential question is
relevant and worthy of discussion, and most posters have presented
intelligent, nuanced arguments even amidst all the needless flaming.
It is actually a subtle point that I think people disagree on,
whatever the extraneous personal baggage.


From chyavana at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 22:19:02 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:19:02 +0800
Subject: Sorting a list of lists
In-Reply-To: <4B759ED1.3090507@optimum.net>
References: <4B7593BF.1030708@gmail.com> <4B759ED1.3090507@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4B776BA6.8060108@gmail.com>

MRAB wrote:

> You'd have to post an example of that, but you could try deleting some
> of the entries before sorting so see whether you can still reproduce the
> problem with a smaller list.

John Posner wrote:
> Please cut-and-paste the exact error message (or other evidence of 
> "failure") into a message.

Thank you both. It appears that the problem was in the way the data were 
being read in from a file, than in the sorting itself. Once I fixed 
that, the results are as expected.

Chandra


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 13 22:44:26 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:44:26 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hl7rf4$d67$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Aahz:
> In article <hl6ilk$f7h$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
> Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:
>> My original statement, with reference to the Java language spec,
>> didn't say much more about the language than that it has assignable
>> references.
> 
> Assuming this is what you're referring to:
> 
>     Python passes pointers by value, just as e.g. Java does.
> 
> Then you are simply, completely, totally, and absolutely wrong.  Period.
> Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
> programming language does not have pointers.  

The next paragraph was about the meaning of "pointer" in that first paragraph, 
referring to the Java language specification for the particular meaning here, 
namely a reference. Note: I did not refer to CPython, C, Pascal or whatever (but 
you mention CPython) for a meaning of "pointer". Instead I referred to the Java 
language specification for that meaning, where it's pretty clear: reference.

So if you don't like the terminology, you can rephrase with perhaps more 
palatable terms:

   Python uses pass by sharing.
   References to objects are copied, the objects themselves are not copied.
   See <url: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_sharing>

If you go to that URL, which isn't auhoritative but good enough, you find that

   "identical semantics in other languages such as Java and Visual Basic"

Hence, your point is only a matter of terminology. The semantics /can/ be 
described using the term "pointer" (or for that matter the term "thingamajic"), 
when that term is suitably defined, and it /is/ described using that word for 
some languages. The language doesn't matter for the concept of pass by sharing.

Hence, the terminological issue doesn't invalidate the description, as long as 
the terminology is clearly defined, as I did with ref to the Java lang spec.

As you can see proper terminology reduces the size of explanation considerably, 
but as I see it that's not a big deal as long as the description is still 
/reasonably/ short. It does become a concern when the description runs to many 
pages of text. A simple thing should IMHO be simply described.

But I think, as I've already stated several times up-thread, that "pointer" is a 
term best avoided for explanations within the Python community, even with a 
reference to a particular definition/usage, making the more verbose version in 
terms of "references" preferable for Python  --  don't you agree?


Cheers,

- Alf



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 13 22:53:42 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 03:53:42 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:34 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> On Feb 13, 6:41?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> > Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
> > programming language does not have pointers. ?
>
> I agree with your statement for a suitably narrow definition of the
> words "pointer" and "have."


"Suitably narrow" is not that narrow. By no stretch of the imagination 
can one say that Python has a built-in pointer type analogous to pointers 
in (say) Pascal or C -- you can't usefully get the address of a variable 
(although the CPython implementation leaks the address of objects, it 
does so in a way that is safe and useless for everything but a label). 
There is no equivalent to (say) the Pascal program:

program main(input, output);
  var
    x: integer;
    ptr: ^integer;

begin
  x := 1;
  ptr := @x;
  ptr^ := ptr^ + 1;
  writeln(x);
end.

For a suitably wide definition of "pointer", then Python does have 
pointers:

data = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc', 'ddd', 'eee']
i = data.index('bbb')
print data[i]
i += 1
data[i] = 'zzz'


but I trust that we all agree that describing the integer offset i above 
as a "pointer" is a reductio ad absurdum.


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb 13 22:56:03 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:56:03 -0800
Subject: Hashing in python
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x3a14cvxo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Vish <vahuja4 at gmail.com> writes:
> I need to hash 3d coordinates to a grid which has been divided into
> 4*4*4 squares. Using python, I thought of a simple way as follows:

Use the built-in hash function:

    >>> p = (1, 2, 3)
    >>> print hash(p)
    2528502973977326415

You can of course mod that by the table size:

    >>> print hash(p) % (4*4*4)
    15


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 13 23:11:06 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:11:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 7:53?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:54:34 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 6:41?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> > > Regardless of how CPython manages its state internally, Python as a
> > > programming language does not have pointers. ?
>
> > I agree with your statement for a suitably narrow definition of the
> > words "pointer" and "have."
>
> "Suitably narrow" is not that narrow. By no stretch of the imagination
> can one say that Python has a built-in pointer type analogous to pointers
> in (say) Pascal or C -- you can't usefully get the address of a variable
> (although the CPython implementation leaks the address of objects, it
> does so in a way that is safe and useless for everything but a label).
> There is no equivalent to (say) the Pascal program:
>
> program main(input, output);
> ? var
> ? ? x: integer;
> ? ? ptr: ^integer;
>
> begin
> ? x := 1;
> ? ptr := @x;
> ? ptr^ := ptr^ + 1;
> ? writeln(x);
> end.
>
> For a suitably wide definition of "pointer", then Python does have
> pointers:
>
> data = ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc', 'ddd', 'eee']
> i = data.index('bbb')
> print data[i]
> i += 1
> data[i] = 'zzz'
>
> but I trust that we all agree that describing the integer offset i above
> as a "pointer" is a reductio ad absurdum.
>

For a suitably wide definition of pointers CPython does indeed have
pointers, and your example is only a weaker case of that truth.  There
is no reductio adsurbum.  If I argued that CPython had curly braced
syntax that would be absurd, since it is so concretely wrong.
Pointers are a more abstact concept.


From sridharr at activestate.com  Sat Feb 13 23:16:59 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:16:59 -0800
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 2.5.5.7 is now available
In-Reply-To: <hl5r66$mh1$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1E441CA2-F197-4F5B-B4F5-A5FE2E3D7882@activestate.com>
	<hl5r66$mh1$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1D5C19A6-A80E-4952-9099-120C394618E0@activestate.com>


On 2010-02-13, at 1:25 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:22:49 -0800, Sridhar Ratnakumar
> <sridharr at activestate.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 2.5.5.7 is now available for
>> download from:
>> 
>>    http://www.activestate.com/activepython/
>> 
> 	This seems to be the first Windows installer I recall that can't
> "update" over an earlier 2.5.x version... It want's me to wipe out
> (uninstall) my existing base before it will allow for installation (bad
> enough it need admin privileges -- I'm going to be dead at work the next
> time they "refresh" my desktop machine as they no longer allow users to
> have local admin rights)

This is probably due to http://firefly.activestate.com/shanec/activepython/ticket/11 where the MSI product code for 64-bit installer was changed to be different from the 32-bit one. Specifically the product codes used are:

<=2.5.4.4: "a2e24bd9-085b-410f-aad0-5eb5fa5d73d2" 

>=2.5.4.6 32-bit: "a2e24bd9-085b-410f-aad0-5eb5fa5d73d2", 
>=2.5.4.5 64-bit: "64e24bd9-085b-410f-aad0-5eb5fa5d73d2", 

Consequently 64-bit installers for 2.X will have different MSI product code from 2.5.4.6 onwards. 

Was your "update" issue happening only with the 64-bit installer of 2.5.5.7?

-srid
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 14 00:13:33 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 05:13:33 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:11:06 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> For a suitably wide definition of pointers CPython does indeed have
> pointers, and your example is only a weaker case of that truth.  There
> is no reductio adsurbum.  If I argued that CPython had curly braced
> syntax that would be absurd, since it is so concretely wrong. Pointers
> are a more abstact concept.

I would argue that your examples are equivalent.

The suitably wide definition of pointers that allows you to argue that 
Python has pointers is an implementation detail, just as the 
implementation detail that the Python tokenizer uses INDENT and DEDENT 
tokens. An INDENT token is just another way of spelling { and DEDENT is 
just another way of spelling }, so therefore Python has curly bracket 
syntax.

Do I believe this argument is valid? No, of course not, I think it does 
so much violence to the concepts of curly brackets and syntax as to be 
absurd. Just as I think the only way to justify claiming that Python has 
pointers is to do so much violence to the concept of pointer and to 
Python's object model as to also be absurd.

That's not to say that the general concept of references (as in "to refer 
to") isn't valuable when discussing Python. If you want to say that 
(e.g.) following 

x = 1

the name "x" refers to (or even points to!) the object 1, my objections 
will be mild or non-existent. In that sense, it's probably impossible to 
program without some sort of "references": the computer manipulates 
variables or objects directly, while we manipulate characters in source 
code. The only way to write a program is to use some abstract thing (a 
name, an offset, whatever) that refers, in some fashion, to a collection 
of bits in the computer's memory. But to go from that to the idea that 
(say) x is a pointer does so much violence to the concept of pointer and 
has so much room for confusion that it is actively harmful.



-- 
Steven


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 00:33:50 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 9:13?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:11:06 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > For a suitably wide definition of pointers CPython does indeed have
> > pointers, and your example is only a weaker case of that truth. ?There
> > is no reductio adsurbum. ?If I argued that CPython had curly braced
> > syntax that would be absurd, since it is so concretely wrong. Pointers
> > are a more abstact concept.
>
> I would argue that your examples are equivalent.
>
> The suitably wide definition of pointers that allows you to argue that
> Python has pointers is an implementation detail, just as the
> implementation detail that the Python tokenizer uses INDENT and DEDENT
> tokens. An INDENT token is just another way of spelling { and DEDENT is
> just another way of spelling }, so therefore Python has curly bracket
> syntax.
>

You seem to be missing the point that "curly braces" is a concrete
term that very specifically applies to spelling.


> Do I believe this argument is valid? No, of course not, I think it does
> so much violence to the concepts of curly brackets and syntax as to be
> absurd. Just as I think the only way to justify claiming that Python has
> pointers is to do so much violence to the concept of pointer and to
> Python's object model as to also be absurd.
>
> That's not to say that the general concept of references (as in "to refer
> to") isn't valuable when discussing Python. If you want to say that
> (e.g.) following
>
> x = 1
>
> the name "x" refers to (or even points to!) the object 1, my objections
> will be mild or non-existent. In that sense, it's probably impossible to
> program without some sort of "references": the computer manipulates
> variables or objects directly, while we manipulate characters in source
> code. The only way to write a program is to use some abstract thing (a
> name, an offset, whatever) that refers, in some fashion, to a collection
> of bits in the computer's memory. But to go from that to the idea that
> (say) x is a pointer does so much violence to the concept of pointer and
> has so much room for confusion that it is actively harmful.
>

I agree that "reference" is a much better term than "pointer.". It has
the right amount of generalness in my opinion. I think "violence" is a
bit overstated, but your bigger point is well taken and it seems like
"reference" is useful middle ground between pure cpython language and
misrepresentative analogy.


From cs at zip.com.au  Sun Feb 14 01:12:06 2010
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:12:06 +1100
Subject: iglob performance no better than glob
In-Reply-To: <449a19de-42f7-4ae3-8099-99c27572adc8@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <449a19de-42f7-4ae3-8099-99c27572adc8@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100214061206.GA31131@cskk.homeip.net>

On 31Jan2010 16:23, Kyp <kyp at stsci.edu> wrote:
| On Jan 31, 2:44?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
| > Kyp wrote:
| > > I have a dir with a large # of files that I need to perform operations
| > > on, but only needing to access a subset of the files, i.e. the first
| > > 100 files.
| > > Using glob is very slow, so I ran across iglob, which returns an
| > > iterator, which seemed just like what I wanted. I could iterate over
| > > the files that I wanted, not having to read the entire dir.
[...]
| > > So the iglob was faster, but accessing the first file took about the
| > > same time as glob.glob.
| >
| > > Here's some code to compare glob vs. iglob performance, ?it outputs
| > > the time before/after a glob.iglob('*.*') files.next() sequence and a
| > > glob.glob('*.*') sequence.
| >
| > > #!/usr/bin/env python
| >
| > > import glob,time
| > > print '\nTest of glob.iglob'
| > > print 'before ? ? ? iglob:', time.asctime()
| > > files = glob.iglob('*.*')
| > > print 'after ? ? ? ?iglob:',time.asctime()
| > > print files.next()
| > > print 'after files.next():', time.asctime()
| >
| > > print '\nTest of glob.glob'
| > > print 'before ? ? ? ?glob:', time.asctime()
| > > files = glob.glob('*.*')
| > > print 'after ? ? ? ? glob:',time.asctime()
| >
| > > Here are the results:
| >
| > > Test of glob.iglob
| > > before ? ? ? iglob: Sun Jan 31 11:09:08 2010
| > > after ? ? ? ?iglob: Sun Jan 31 11:09:08 2010
| > > foo.bar
| > > after files.next(): Sun Jan 31 11:09:59 2010
| >
| > > Test of glob.glob
| > > before ? ? ? ?glob: Sun Jan 31 11:09:59 2010
| > > after ? ? ? ? glob: Sun Jan 31 11:10:51 2010
| >
| > > The results are about the same for the 2 approaches, both took about
| > > 51 seconds. Am I doing something wrong with iglob?
| >
| > No, but iglob() being lazy is pointless in your case because it uses
| > os.listdir() and fnmatch.filter() underneath which both read the whole
| > directory before returning anything.
| >
| > > Is there a way to get the first X # of files from a dir with lots of
| > > files, that does not take a long time to run?
| >
| > Here's my attempt. [...open directory and read native format...]

I'd be inclined first to time os.listdir('.') versus glob.lgo('*.*').

Glob routines tend to lstat() every matching name to ensure the path
exists. That's very slow. If you just do os.listdir() and choose your
100 nmaes, you only need to stat (or just try to open) them.

So time glob.glob("*.*") versus os.listdir(".") first.

Generally, with a large directory, stat time will change performance
immensely.
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

Usenet is essentially a HUGE group of people passing notes in class. --R. Kadel


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 14 02:21:44 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 07:21:44 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> You seem to be missing the point that "curly braces" is a concrete
> term that very specifically applies to spelling.

And you seem to be missing the point that "pointer" is also a concrete 
term that very specifically applies to, well, pointers.

[...]
> I agree that "reference" is a much better term than "pointer.". It has
> the right amount of generalness in my opinion. I think "violence" is a
> bit overstated, but your bigger point is well taken and it seems like
> "reference" is useful middle ground between pure cpython language and
> misrepresentative analogy.

But reference also has a concrete meaning: C++ has a type explicitly 
called "reference":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C++)

And of course call-by-reference (or pass-by-reference) has a specific, 
technical meaning.



-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 14 02:40:50 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:40:50 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hl89ab$77c$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> 
>> You seem to be missing the point that "curly braces" is a concrete
>> term that very specifically applies to spelling.
> 
> And you seem to be missing the point that "pointer" is also a concrete 
> term that very specifically applies to, well, pointers.
> 
> [...]
>> I agree that "reference" is a much better term than "pointer.". It has
>> the right amount of generalness in my opinion. I think "violence" is a
>> bit overstated, but your bigger point is well taken and it seems like
>> "reference" is useful middle ground between pure cpython language and
>> misrepresentative analogy.
> 
> But reference also has a concrete meaning: C++ has a type explicitly 
> called "reference":
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C++)
> 
> And of course call-by-reference (or pass-by-reference) has a specific, 
> technical meaning.

Hm.

Consider your argument about "reference" being possible to confuse with "pass by 
reference" in the light of "pass by name", used by Algol, <url: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen%27s_Device>.

Oops, to consistently remove all possible ambiguity the term "name" can't be 
used about formal arguments.

I think, even though "pass by name" is much less well known than "pass by 
reference", this indicates that it's not practically possible to remove all 
possible ambiguity.

I think some Common Sense(TM) must in any case be assumed, and applied.


Cheers,

- Alf


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 02:45:47 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 13, 11:21?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:50 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > You seem to be missing the point that "curly braces" is a concrete
> > term that very specifically applies to spelling.
>
> And you seem to be missing the point that "pointer" is also a concrete
> term that very specifically applies to, well, pointers.
>

The term "pointer" is very abstract.  Please give me a concrete
definition of a pointer.

A curly brace is one of these: { }

Pretty concrete, I hope.

> [...]
>
> > I agree that "reference" is a much better term than "pointer.". It has
> > the right amount of generalness in my opinion. I think "violence" is a
> > bit overstated, but your bigger point is well taken and it seems like
> > "reference" is useful middle ground between pure cpython language and
> > misrepresentative analogy.
>
> But reference also has a concrete meaning: C++ has a type explicitly
> called "reference":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C++)
>

Of course, "reference" has concrete meanings in specific contexts.
But I can refer you to much more general and abstract uses of the term
"reference."  Do you want references?   I will be happy to refer you
to appropriate references.


> And of course call-by-reference (or pass-by-reference) has a specific,
> technical meaning.
>

Which is what?



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 03:15:02 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:15:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqb28$tk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002081755nc32be95qb2f567d0463babde@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqmii$jr7$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002082029q303592b5v86717f406a8eff2c@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <b873a33f-1fb4-4cb0-abf5-0d6547d4d826@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 10, 6:16?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I
> understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native
> English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are sometimes
> ambiguous in English.
>
> While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a
> direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a
> paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us now.)
>
> Unfortunately, this means that in informal discussions like this it is
> sometimes difficult to distinguish a direct quote from a paraphrase,
> except by context. In context, as a native speaker, I can assure you that
> Stephen Hansen's use of quotation marks is a paraphrase and not meant to
> be read as a direct quote.

As another native speaker of English, I can assure Alf that using
quotation marks in a paraphrase in written English is actually
strictly admonished against in some English speaking countries.  At
least according to my English teachers.  To the extent that many
people on the Internet don't speak English natively, I think the most
conservative and reasonable convention applies--use quotes to quote
directly; if you're not quoting directly, omit quotes and make clear
the fact that you are paraphrasing.

Which isn't to say we don't all make mistakes.

I have no idea about what Stephen Hanson said.  Most misattributions
are actually paraphrases, whether they be in quotes or not.



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 03:21:03 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:21:03 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<Xns9D1B8DBB910duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hkv38e$p7l$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl0245$uf3$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<62e5dac7-7e70-4194-a4f8-77ca9c7e3d06@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl4d5j$ck9$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<25173e83-11fe-40e3-9a7d-3ddcc361f19a@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002140021i14f45531r3c4414bdb7a24b15@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Michael Sparks <sparks.m at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Alf,
>
>
> On Feb 12, 8:22 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> > Thanks for the effort at non-flaming discussion, it *is*
> > appreciated.
>
> I would appreciate it if you tried to be non-flaming yourself,
> since you can see I am not flaming you.
>

I'm currently in a self-imposed exile from commenting on any particular
details of the technical issue in this thread as I believe it futile, but I
have to say: wow, kudos to you for putting SO much into saying what I tried
to say, and doing so better then I was able to.

Kudos. Times two.

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 03:50:04 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:50:04 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <b873a33f-1fb4-4cb0-abf5-0d6547d4d826@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <9816ff65-b147-43f5-a0bf-e3dc9a0c8c64@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hkqvkj$ir5$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2216.1265719807.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksevt$scv$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2247.1265748078.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<hksioi$323$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<7a9c25c21002092343s11815162yd39691362a51ab63@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hktpn8$ioa$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<0382abea$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<b873a33f-1fb4-4cb0-abf5-0d6547d4d826@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002140050j4dddcc3dkdffc1df523ee7bf2@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Feb 10, 6:16 am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Alf, although your English in this forum has been excellent so far, I
> > understand you are Norwegian, so it is possible that you aren't a native
> > English speaker and possibly unaware that quotation marks are sometimes
> > ambiguous in English.
> >
> > While it is true that quoted text is officially meant to indicate a
> > direct quote, it is also commonly used in informal text to indicate a
> > paraphrase. (There are other uses as well, but they don't concern us
> now.)
> >
> > Unfortunately, this means that in informal discussions like this it is
> > sometimes difficult to distinguish a direct quote from a paraphrase,
> > except by context. In context, as a native speaker, I can assure you that
> > Stephen Hansen's use of quotation marks is a paraphrase and not meant to
> > be read as a direct quote.
>
> As another native speaker of English, I can assure Alf that using
> quotation marks in a paraphrase in written English is actually
> strictly admonished against in some English speaking countries.  At
> least according to my English teachers.  To the extent that many
> people on the Internet don't speak English natively, I think the most
> conservative and reasonable convention applies--use quotes to quote
> directly; if you're not quoting directly, omit quotes and make clear
> the fact that you are paraphrasing.
>
> Which isn't to say we don't all make mistakes.
>
> I have no idea about what Stephen Hanson said.  Most misattributions
> are actually paraphrases, whether they be in quotes or not.



Well, no, I have to stand in my defense at this point. Given the context of
the communication medium, an actual "quote"  has IMHO a clearly defined
context. It is lines, unchanged and unedited, prepended with a certain
appropriate set of characters, and clearly cited with some variation of
something like "On <date>, Someone said:"

A quote, in context, is an attempt to directly reference another
individual's words as they spoke them.

Any alteration of such words, any adjustment of such words to your own end,
is dishonest.

What I did was say something like this paragraph (with no quote characters
before it):

   And then you hand-waved my arguments with a response of, "this that blah
bleh"

Minus the indention.

There was IMHO, NO misattribution, NO reasonable assumption that I specified
actual or explicit words of Alf or anyone else. There MAY be an argument
someone can make claiming my statement wasn't clear, but to declare it is a
deliberate /lie/ is another thing entirely.

There is a difference between using quote marks and making an actual
quotation-- a quotation requires a citation-- and in informal discourse use
of quote marks to represent clear paraphrasing of the interpretation of
position is valid, imho. In a formal paper or thesis, I'd use a different
format. But this is not formal. In context that statement can not possibly
be reasonable considered an actual quotation, even with quote marks.

And I'm responding because: yes, I'm finding this "You are a liar." response
particularly personally offensive. I should get over it. I'm just used to
people disagreeing with me. Dismissing me as a liar is something new.

--S
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From paul at subsignal.org  Sun Feb 14 04:16:18 2010
From: paul at subsignal.org (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Paul_K=F6lle?=)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:16:18 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
Message-ID: <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>

Am 13.02.2010 10:50, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a module/plugin/intra-process-communication/hook system
> for python. Maybe someone here could point me to some project I missed
> or might have some good ideas if I end up implementing it myself.
>
> Most systems I have found are "one to many" communications but I would
> like "many to many", to clarify what I mean an *example* use-case:
>
>          Lets say you program a wiki and like to allow different kind of
>          authentications. So you create two plugins (for example one for
>          OpenID and one for Shibboleth).
>
>          Some time later you feel like reinventing the wheel again and
>          you program a blog. Again you like to allow different ways of
>          authentication and you already wrote plugins for exactly the
>          same for your wiki, right?
>
> With most systems now some trouble begins - the blog software would need
> to have the interface/extention-points/however-you-name-it that the wiki
> software defined.
>
> The plugins you wrote probably import them from the wiki module directly
> which means your blog would depend on the wiki. (?!) So where to put the
> interface/[...] definition that is imported by those plugins? Create a
> package/module just containing the interface? This really get
> troublesome if different people wrote the wiki, the blog and another
> third one a plugin.
If you are talking about code sharing you can move the common code out 
of your applications in a seperate namespace. If you follow the model 
trac is using you would install a module/package/egg with the basic 
functionality of the pluginsystem (i.e. what's in core.py and env.py + 
logging and whatever you think is necessary).
All shared code like your auth-plugins would go in a common plugin 
directory to which you can refer via PYTHONPATH.

Another common technique is chaining of WSGI middleware..., check out 
pythonpaste.org.

Then there is SOA where functionality is shared via RPC/webservices and 
wsdl/uddi. But my feeling is this is mostly used in "Enterprise" 
applications and is best used in Java/.NET where you already have 
libraries doing all the XML stuff.

hth
  Paul






From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 14 04:25:14 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:25:14 +0100
Subject: Hashing in python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2512.1266108436.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2512.1266108436.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B77C17A.1020306@v.loewis.de>

> floor(x) returns an integer

Why do you say that? Assuming you are talking about math.floor, it works
differently for me:

py> math.floor(10.0/3)
3.0

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 14 04:30:36 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:30:36 +0100
Subject: Hashing in python
In-Reply-To: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B77C2BC.5080201@v.loewis.de>

> CELL_SIZE = 4
> 
> def key(point):
> 
>     return (
>         int((floor(point[0]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
>         int((floor(point[1]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE),
>         int((floor(point[2]/CELL_SIZE))*CELL_SIZE)
>     )
> 
> 
> Since python allows keys to be tuples, I think that this should work.
> Is there a better (more efficient) way to do it?

You don't say why you want to do hashing in the first place. If it is to
access elements in a lookup table, and you are now using a dictionary,
I'd suggest to replace that with a list. For 4x4x4 elements, you could
either do

table[int(point[0]/CELL_SIZE)][int(point[1]/CELL_SIZE)][int(point[2]/CELL_SIZE)]

(i.e. have nested lists), or you allocate a list of 64 elements, and use

def key(point):
  return 16*int(point[0]/CELL_SIZE) + 4*int(point[1]/CELL_SIZE) +\
            int(point[2]/CELL_SIZE)

table[key(point)]

You could even use that key function as a key to a dictionary, if you
can't use lists for some reason.

Regards,
Martin


From karsten.goen at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 14 04:33:54 2010
From: karsten.goen at googlemail.com (Karsten Goen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:33:54 +0100
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
Message-ID: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>

hey all,
I got a problem with floats and calculations. I made an mini-application
where you get random questions with some science calculations in it
So the user can type in his result with the values given by random creation.
And the user value is compared against the computer value... the problem is
that the user input is only 2 numbers behind the '.' so like 1.42, 1.75

here is the example:
http://dpaste.com/hold/158698/

without decimal it would be very inaccurate. decimal is very accurate when I
have to compare d with users calculations from a,b,c,var.
But when I ask the user what is "a" the result gets inaccurate when
calculating with the same values given before (b,c,d,var).

Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for
every possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible
for a computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and
slower.

thx in advance

Karsten
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From stefan-usenet at bytereef.org  Sun Feb 14 05:29:56 2010
From: stefan-usenet at bytereef.org (Stefan Krah)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:29:56 +0100
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
In-Reply-To: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>

Karsten Goen <karsten.goen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> hey all,
> I got a problem with floats and calculations. I made an mini-application where
> you get random questions with some science calculations in it
> So the user can type in his result with the values given by random creation.
> And the user value is compared against the computer value... the problem is
> that the user input is only 2 numbers behind the '.' so like 1.42, 1.75
> 
> here is the example:
> http://dpaste.com/hold/158698/
> 
> without decimal it would be very inaccurate. decimal is very accurate when I
> have to compare d with users calculations from a,b,c,var.
> But when I ask the user what is "a" the result gets inaccurate when calculating
> with the same values given before (b,c,d,var).
> 
> Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for every
> possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible for a
> computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and slower.

d = (a * b)/ (c * var)
d = Decimal(d).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))

By quantizing d, the above equality does not hold any longer. You've got
to drop that line (your calculator doesn't quantize either).


Stefan Krah




From karsten.goen at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 14 05:50:49 2010
From: karsten.goen at googlemail.com (Karsten Goen)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:50:49 +0100
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
In-Reply-To: <20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>
Message-ID: <bc38bb4a1002140250h5e138994o147c612e7b641698@mail.gmail.com>

also this doesn't help, there are still errors in the accuracy. Isn't there
a perfect way to do such calculations?

Karsten Goen <karsten.goen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > hey all,
> > I got a problem with floats and calculations. I made an mini-application
> where
> > you get random questions with some science calculations in it
> > So the user can type in his result with the values given by random
> creation.
> > And the user value is compared against the computer value... the problem
> is
> > that the user input is only 2 numbers behind the '.' so like 1.42, 1.75
> >
> > here is the example:
> > http://dpaste.com/hold/158698/
> >
> > without decimal it would be very inaccurate. decimal is very accurate
> when I
> > have to compare d with users calculations from a,b,c,var.
> > But when I ask the user what is "a" the result gets inaccurate when
> calculating
> > with the same values given before (b,c,d,var).
> >
> > Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for
> every
> > possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible for
> a
> > computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and
> slower.
>
> d = (a * b)/ (c * var)
> d = Decimal(d).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
>
> By quantizing d, the above equality does not hold any longer. You've got
> to drop that line (your calculator doesn't quantize either).
>
>
> Stefan Krah
>
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From gandalf at shopzeus.com  Sun Feb 14 06:28:59 2010
From: gandalf at shopzeus.com (Laszlo Nagy)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:28:59 +0100
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
	<7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4B77DE7B.1020001@shopzeus.com>

2010.02.13. 17:40 keltez?ssel, Diez B. Roggisch ?rta:
> Am 13.02.10 17:18, schrieb Anssi Saari:
>> Nobody<nobody at nowhere.com>  writes:
>>
>>> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a 
>>> 64-bit CPU
>>> and OS.
>>
>> That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
>> allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
>> Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.
>
> No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit 
> through paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.
PAE is for the kernel. Yes, you can use much more memory with 32 bit 
kernel + PAE. But the ~3G per 32bit process limit still applies. It is 
because the PAE extension allows the kernel to distribute the same 
virtual address ranges between different processes, but map them to 
different physical memory addresses. However, the process that was 
compiled and is running in 32 bit mode, cannot access more than ~3GB 
simply because it is not able to address more memory locations with 32 
bit addresses. (minus ~1G is because it needs virtual addresses for I/O 
devices as well, and those addresses cannot be mapped to physical memory).

So with any Python that is running in 32 bit mode, you cannot use more 
than ~3G memory. But you can start many instances of those programs and 
use 2G for each process.

    L



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Feb 14 06:41:45 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:41:45 +0000
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
In-Reply-To: <bc38bb4a1002140250h5e138994o147c612e7b641698@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>	<20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>
	<bc38bb4a1002140250h5e138994o147c612e7b641698@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl8ngu$rtv$1@ger.gmane.org>

[fix top posting]
> Karsten Goen <karsten.goen at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> hey all,
>>> I got a problem with floats and calculations. I made an mini-application
>> where
>>> you get random questions with some science calculations in it
>>> So the user can type in his result with the values given by random
>> creation.
>>> And the user value is compared against the computer value... the problem
>> is
>>> that the user input is only 2 numbers behind the '.' so like 1.42, 1.75
>>>
>>> here is the example:
>>> http://dpaste.com/hold/158698/
>>>
>>> without decimal it would be very inaccurate. decimal is very accurate
>> when I
>>> have to compare d with users calculations from a,b,c,var.
>>> But when I ask the user what is "a" the result gets inaccurate when
>> calculating
>>> with the same values given before (b,c,d,var).
>>>
>>> Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for
>> every
>>> possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible for
>> a
>>> computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and
>> slower.
>>
>> d = (a * b)/ (c * var)
>> d = Decimal(d).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
>>
>> By quantizing d, the above equality does not hold any longer. You've got
>> to drop that line (your calculator doesn't quantize either).
>>
>>
>> Stefan Krah
>>
> 

Karsten Goen wrote:
 > also this doesn't help, there are still errors in the accuracy. Isn't 
there
 > a perfect way to do such calculations?
 >

Please read the following and see if it helps.  Also search the python 
users mailing list for something like floating point accuracy, you'll 
get plenty of hits.

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/floatingpoint.html

Regards.

Mark Lawrence



From stefan-usenet at bytereef.org  Sun Feb 14 06:42:34 2010
From: stefan-usenet at bytereef.org (Stefan Krah)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:42:34 +0100
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
In-Reply-To: <bc38bb4a1002140247x7f785dffxe236f87ac316c9d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214102956.GA6524@yoda.bytereef.org>
	<bc38bb4a1002140247x7f785dffxe236f87ac316c9d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100214114234.GA7498@yoda.bytereef.org>

Karsten Goen <karsten.goen at googlemail.com> wrote:
> also this doesn't help, there are still errors in the accuracy. Isn't there a
> perfect way to do such calculations?

The hint I gave you removes the most egregious error in your program.
You still have to quantize the result of (c*var*d) / b) if you want
it to match a. If I adapt your program, I don't find any non-matching
numbers.

for i in range(100000):
    # set random numbers
    a = Decimal(str(random.uniform(0.1,123))).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
    b = Decimal(str(random.uniform(20.1,3000))).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
    c = Decimal(str(random.uniform(100, 5000))).quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
    var = Decimal('8.314').quantize(Decimal('0.01'))
    # calc d
    d = (a * b)/ (c * var)
    if ((c*var*d) / b).quantize(Decimal('0.01')) != a:
        print a, (c*var*d) / b


Note that for perfect accuracy you should use the fraction module.


Stefan Krah




From abenthy at asylum.com  Sun Feb 14 06:52:53 2010
From: abenthy at asylum.com (abent)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 03:52:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to solve an LCP (linear complementarity problem) in python ?
Message-ID: <bdda4cc0-7334-4690-8469-e1dbce70a861@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

Is there a good library to numericly solve an LCP in python ?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_complementarity_problem)

An example would be very helpful because most libraries seem to only
solve QP's.
I need this for computing 2d contact forces in a rigid body
simulation.


From dino at phidev.org  Sun Feb 14 07:05:06 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:05:06 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>  <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1266149106.4299.79.camel@brain>

On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 10:16 +0100, Paul K?lle wrote: 
> Am 13.02.2010 10:50, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm looking for a module/plugin/intra-process-communication/hook system
> > for python. Maybe someone here could point me to some project I missed
> > or might have some good ideas if I end up implementing it myself.
> >
> > [...]
> > 
> > The plugins you wrote probably import them from the wiki module directly
> > which means your blog would depend on the wiki. (?!) So where to put the
> > interface/[...] definition that is imported by those plugins? Create a
> > package/module just containing the interface? This really get
> > troublesome if different people wrote the wiki, the blog and another
> > third one a plugin.

> If you are talking about code sharing you can move the common code out 
> of your applications in a seperate namespace. If you follow the model 
> trac is using you would install a module/package/egg with the basic 
> functionality of the pluginsystem (i.e. what's in core.py and env.py + 
> logging and whatever you think is necessary).

> All shared code like your auth-plugins would go in a common plugin 
> directory to which you can refer via PYTHONPATH.

You're right, its about code sharing/reusing - should have said it more
clearly. What I am looking for is the pluginsystem that makes this easy.
Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've seen)
approach:

You need to define something like:
|
| class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
|
in your blog software.

Now within the open_id_login_plugin:
| from blog import IAuthPlugin
|
| class OpenIdPlugin(object):
|     implements(IAuthPlugin)
|

So the OpenIdPlugin is specific for the blog and hardly sharable.
Actually it is but it depends on the blog as it gets imported.

This might be thought of as an implementation detail but its seems
pretty common.


> Another common technique is chaining of WSGI middleware..., check out 
> pythonpaste.org.

WSGI middleware just doesn't do it in some situations. Also it only
works out for web-based applications (my example was one but my question
was more general).


Thanks for your answer,
Florian



-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From moky.math at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 07:16:28 2010
From: moky.math at gmail.com (Laurent Claessens)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:16:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: LaTeX parser and pstricks generator in python
Message-ID: <fe0d0e32-b1ee-4249-bd2f-e5d5e523a43c@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hi all.

I just put online a first version of two tools that combine LaTeX and
python.

The first one, phystricks[1], is a python module intended to generate
pstricks code. The main features are
* you don't have to know pstricks (but you need to have some basics in
python)
* you have python instead of LaTeX as backend programming language
* the bounding box is automatically computed
* thanks to Sage[5], you have a direct access to the derivative of
functions (and much more). Thus, for example, tangent and normal
vectors to any (cartesian/polar/parametric) plots are easy to draw.
* eps export is possible in order to be more pdfLaTeX friendly.

The documentation[3] contains many examples of figures created with
phystricks. Download the file phystricks-doc.pdf[4]

In a somewhat near future, I plan to add interaction with LaTeX :
reading the .aux file, I can import the values of LaTeX's counters in
python. You should be able to draw a line whose angular coefficient is
the number of the last equation ;)
That feature should also improve the computation of the bounding box
in taking into account the LaTeX labels that one put in the picture.

That lead me to the second tool I put online ...

The second, LaTeXparser[2], is a simple LaTeXparser in python. Given a
tex file, the features are
* answer to the questions : what are the defined macros ? among of
them, which are actually used ? with what arguments ?
* substitute \input{...} by the content of the file
* read the .aux file and take information about the values \label and
\ref


Every comments (and patches) are much welcome !

Have a good day
Laurent


[1] http://www.gitorious.org/phystricks
[2] http://www.gitorious.org/latexparser
[3] http://www.gitorious.org/phystricks-doc
[4] http://www.gitorious.org/phystricks-doc/phystricks-doc/trees/master
[5] http://sagemath.org/


From news123 at free.fr  Sun Feb 14 07:17:40 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:17:40 +0100
Subject: problem with QtSignals "object has no attribute 'emit'"
Message-ID: <4b77e9e4$0$6277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I'm having a rather small code snippet, where I create pyQT signals.
I manage creating a signal as class attribute,
but I can't create a list of signals or a signal
as object.member.


> from PyQt4.QtGui import *
> from PyQt4.QtCore import *
> 
> class MyWin(QMainWindow):
>     clssig     = pyqtSignal()
>     sigarr   = [ pyqtSignal() ]
>     def emit_them(self):
>         self.objsig = pyqtSignal()
>         self.clssig.emit()    # works
>         self.sigarr[0].emit()  # fails 
>         self.objsig.emit()  # fails
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     app = QApplication(sys.argv)
>     win = MyWin()
>     win.show()
>     win.emit_them()
>     sys.exit(app.exec_())

The two lines marked with fails will fail with following error:
> AttributeError: 'PyQt4.QtCore.pyqtSignal' object has no attribute 'emit'

The QT documentation states:
"New signals should only be defined in sub-classes of QObject."

I guess, that his is the reason. though I don't know enough about PyQT
to understand the magic behind.


Now my question:

How could I create an array of signals if I wished to?

I can work aroud it, but would be curious.


Thanks for shadng some light on this (for me surprising) issue.


N


From jarausch at skynet.be  Sun Feb 14 07:36:19 2010
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:36:19 +0100
Subject: How to solve an LCP (linear complementarity problem) in python ?
In-Reply-To: <bdda4cc0-7334-4690-8469-e1dbce70a861@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <bdda4cc0-7334-4690-8469-e1dbce70a861@36g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b77ee43$0$2886$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>

On 02/14/10 12:52, abent wrote:
> Is there a good library to numericly solve an LCP in python ?
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_complementarity_problem)
> 
> An example would be very helpful because most libraries seem to only
> solve QP's.
> I need this for computing 2d contact forces in a rigid body
> simulation.

Sorry, I can't help you except pointing you to
the Complementarity Problem Net

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/cpnet/

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany


From phil at riverbankcomputing.com  Sun Feb 14 07:53:49 2010
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.com (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:53:49 +0000
Subject: problem with QtSignals "object has no attribute 'emit'"
In-Reply-To: <4b77e9e4$0$6277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b77e9e4$0$6277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <50888e51273d0b98c5cb065d83488f8a@localhost>

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:17:40 +0100, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm having a rather small code snippet, where I create pyQT signals.
> I manage creating a signal as class attribute,
> but I can't create a list of signals or a signal
> as object.member.
> 
> 
>> from PyQt4.QtGui import *
>> from PyQt4.QtCore import *
>> 
>> class MyWin(QMainWindow):
>>     clssig     = pyqtSignal()
>>     sigarr   = [ pyqtSignal() ]
>>     def emit_them(self):
>>         self.objsig = pyqtSignal()
>>         self.clssig.emit()    # works
>>         self.sigarr[0].emit()  # fails 
>>         self.objsig.emit()  # fails
>> 
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>     app = QApplication(sys.argv)
>>     win = MyWin()
>>     win.show()
>>     win.emit_them()
>>     sys.exit(app.exec_())
> 
> The two lines marked with fails will fail with following error:
>> AttributeError: 'PyQt4.QtCore.pyqtSignal' object has no attribute 'emit'
> 
> The QT documentation states:
> "New signals should only be defined in sub-classes of QObject."
> 
> I guess, that his is the reason. though I don't know enough about PyQT
> to understand the magic behind.
> 
> 
> Now my question:
> 
> How could I create an array of signals if I wished to?
> 
> I can work aroud it, but would be curious.
> 
> 
> Thanks for shadng some light on this (for me surprising) issue.

You can't create an array of signals.

Signals are defined to both Python and C++. This is done when the class is
defined by introspecting the class attributes - but it doesn't look for
signals any deeper than that, i.e. it won't look into your sigarr list.

Even if it did, there is a second issue. Signals have unbound and bound
versions (much like unbound and bound methods). The class attribute is an
unbound signal that is a descriptor that will return the bound signal. It
is the bound signal that implements the emit() method. It would be possible
for an unbound signal's __call__ method to also return a bound signal so
that you could do something like...

    self.sigarr[0](self).emit()

...but I can't think of a valid use case.

Phil


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 14 10:11:19 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 15:11:19 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> The term "pointer" is very abstract.  Please give me a concrete
> definition of a pointer.

A programming language data type whose value directly specifies (or 
"points to") another value which is stored elsewhere in the computer 
memory.

I quote from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)

    [quote]
    A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the 
    more abstracted reference data type
    [end quote]

And later:

    [quote]
    While "pointer" has been used to refer to references in 
    general, it more properly applies to data structures whose 
    interface explicitly allows the pointer to be manipulated
    (arithmetically via pointer arithmetic) as a memory 
    address...
    [end quote]

And again:

    [quote]
    A memory pointer (or just pointer) is a primitive, the value 
    of which is intended to be used as a memory address; it is said 
    that a pointer points to a memory address. It is also said that
    a pointer points to a datum [in memory] when the pointer's value
    is the datum's memory address.

    More generally, a pointer is a kind of reference, and it is said 
    that a pointer references a datum stored somewhere in memory; to
    obtain that datum is to dereference the pointer. The feature that
    separates pointers from other kinds of reference is that a 
    pointer's value is meant to be interpreted as a memory address, 
    which is a rather 'low-level' concept.
    [end quote]


> A curly brace is one of these: { }
> 
> Pretty concrete, I hope.

But { and } are glyphs in some typeface. Chances are that what you see, 
and what I see, are quite different, and whatever pixels we see, the 
compiler sees something radically different: two abstract characters 
implemented in some concrete fashion, but that concrete fashion is a mere 
implementation detail. They could be implemented as bytes x7b and x7d, or 
as four-byte sequences x0000007b and x0000007d for UTF-32, or who knows 
what in some other system. So the *concrete* representation of the curly 
brace varies according to the system.

>From that, it's not a difficult leap to say that Pascal's BEGIN and END 
key words are mere alternate spellings of the abstract "open curly brace" 
and "close curly brace" with different concrete representations, and from 
that it's a small step to say that the INDENT and DEDENT tokens seen by 
the Python compiler (but absent from Python source code!) are too.


>> But reference also has a concrete meaning: C++ has a type explicitly
>> called "reference":
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_(C++)
>>
>>
> Of course, "reference" has concrete meanings in specific contexts. But I
> can refer you to much more general and abstract uses of the term
> "reference."  Do you want references?   I will be happy to refer you to
> appropriate references.

I know that reference can also be used in the abstract. I'm just warning 
that it can also be used in the concrete, and so we need to be wary of 
misunderstandings and confusions.


>> And of course call-by-reference (or pass-by-reference) has a specific,
>> technical meaning.
>>
>>
> Which is what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Call_by_reference



-- 
Steven


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 11:53:15 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:53:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
Message-ID: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
FACT1/).
Thank you

# To change this template, choose Tools | Templates
# and open the template in the editor.

__author__="Mukesh Tiwari"
__date__ ="$Feb 10, 2010 1:35:26 AM$"


import random
from Queue import Queue


def gcd(a,b):
    while b:
        a,b=b,a%b
    return a

def rabin_miller(p,t=1):
	if(p<2):
		return False
	if(p!=2 and p%2==0):
		return False
	s=p-1
	while(s%2==0):
		s>>=1
	for i in xrange(t):
		a=random.randrange(p-1)+1
		temp=s
		mod=pow(a,temp,p)
		while(temp!=p-1 and mod!=1 and mod!=p-1):
			mod=(mod*mod)%p
			temp=temp*2
		if(mod!=p-1 and temp%2==0):
			return False
	return True
def brent(n):
    if(n%2==0):
        return 2;
 
x,c,m=random.randrange(0,n),random.randrange(1,n),random.randrange(1,n)
    y,r,q=x,1,1
    g,ys=0,0
    while(True):
        x=y
        for i in range(r):
            y,k=(y*y+c)%n,0
        while(True):
            ys=y
            for i in range(min(m,r-k)):
                y,q=(y*y+c)%n,q*abs(x-y)%n
            g,k=gcd(q,n),k+m
            if(k>= r or g>1):break
        r=2*r
        if(g>1):break
    if(g==n):
        while(True):
            ys,g=(x*x+c)%n,gcd(abs(x-ys),n)
            if(g>1):break
    return g


def factor(n):
    Q_1,Q_2=Queue(),[]
    Q_1.put(n)
    while(not Q_1.empty()):
        l=Q_1.get()
        if(rabin_miller(l)):
            Q_2.append(l)
            continue
        d=brent(l)
        if(d==l):Q_1.put(l)
        else:
            Q_1.put(d)
            Q_1.put(l/d)
    return Q_2



if __name__ == "__main__":
    while(True):
        n=int(raw_input())
        if(n==0):break
        L=factor(n)
        L.sort()
        #print L
        i=0
        s=""
        while(i<len(L)):
            cnt=L.count(L[i])
            #print "%d^%d"%(L[i],cnt)
            s+=str(L[i])+"^"+str(cnt)+" "
            i+=cnt
        print s[:-1]


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Feb 14 12:12:32 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:12:32 +0000
Subject: Python Optimization
In-Reply-To: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9asa$a2b$1@ger.gmane.org>

mukesh tiwari wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
> code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
> pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
> FACT1/).
> Thank you
> 
> # To change this template, choose Tools | Templates
> # and open the template in the editor.
> 
> __author__="Mukesh Tiwari"
> __date__ ="$Feb 10, 2010 1:35:26 AM$"
> 
> 
> import random
> from Queue import Queue
> 
> 
> def gcd(a,b):
>     while b:
>         a,b=b,a%b
>     return a
> 
> def rabin_miller(p,t=1):
> 	if(p<2):
> 		return False
> 	if(p!=2 and p%2==0):
> 		return False
> 	s=p-1
> 	while(s%2==0):
> 		s>>=1
> 	for i in xrange(t):
> 		a=random.randrange(p-1)+1
> 		temp=s
> 		mod=pow(a,temp,p)
> 		while(temp!=p-1 and mod!=1 and mod!=p-1):
> 			mod=(mod*mod)%p
> 			temp=temp*2
> 		if(mod!=p-1 and temp%2==0):
> 			return False
> 	return True
> def brent(n):
>     if(n%2==0):
>         return 2;
>  
> x,c,m=random.randrange(0,n),random.randrange(1,n),random.randrange(1,n)
>     y,r,q=x,1,1
>     g,ys=0,0
>     while(True):
>         x=y
>         for i in range(r):
>             y,k=(y*y+c)%n,0
>         while(True):
>             ys=y
>             for i in range(min(m,r-k)):
>                 y,q=(y*y+c)%n,q*abs(x-y)%n
>             g,k=gcd(q,n),k+m
>             if(k>= r or g>1):break
>         r=2*r
>         if(g>1):break
>     if(g==n):
>         while(True):
>             ys,g=(x*x+c)%n,gcd(abs(x-ys),n)
>             if(g>1):break
>     return g
> 
> 
> def factor(n):
>     Q_1,Q_2=Queue(),[]
>     Q_1.put(n)
>     while(not Q_1.empty()):
>         l=Q_1.get()
>         if(rabin_miller(l)):
>             Q_2.append(l)
>             continue
>         d=brent(l)
>         if(d==l):Q_1.put(l)
>         else:
>             Q_1.put(d)
>             Q_1.put(l/d)
>     return Q_2
> 
> 
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     while(True):
>         n=int(raw_input())
>         if(n==0):break
>         L=factor(n)
>         L.sort()
>         #print L
>         i=0
>         s=""
>         while(i<len(L)):
>             cnt=L.count(L[i])
>             #print "%d^%d"%(L[i],cnt)
>             s+=str(L[i])+"^"+str(cnt)+" "
>             i+=cnt
>         print s[:-1]

A good starting point is 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/PerformanceTips

HTH.

Mark Lawrence



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb 14 12:29:41 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:29:41 +0000
Subject: Hashing in python
In-Reply-To: <4B77C17A.1020306@v.loewis.de>
References: <6a2ea0d2-fe99-4ac4-ab03-a8ae95106900@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2512.1266108436.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B77C17A.1020306@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4B783305.5090405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:
>> floor(x) returns an integer
> 
> Why do you say that? Assuming you are talking about math.floor, it works
> differently for me:
> 
> py> math.floor(10.0/3)
> 3.0
> 
I've just double-checked. It returns a float in Python 2.x and an int in
Python 3.x. (I recently switched to Python 3.1.)


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Feb 14 12:47:30 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:47:30 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain> <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 14.02.10 13:05, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 10:16 +0100, Paul K?lle wrote:
>> Am 13.02.2010 10:50, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a module/plugin/intra-process-communication/hook system
>>> for python. Maybe someone here could point me to some project I missed
>>> or might have some good ideas if I end up implementing it myself.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> The plugins you wrote probably import them from the wiki module directly
>>> which means your blog would depend on the wiki. (?!) So where to put the
>>> interface/[...] definition that is imported by those plugins? Create a
>>> package/module just containing the interface? This really get
>>> troublesome if different people wrote the wiki, the blog and another
>>> third one a plugin.
>
>> If you are talking about code sharing you can move the common code out
>> of your applications in a seperate namespace. If you follow the model
>> trac is using you would install a module/package/egg with the basic
>> functionality of the pluginsystem (i.e. what's in core.py and env.py +
>> logging and whatever you think is necessary).
>
>> All shared code like your auth-plugins would go in a common plugin
>> directory to which you can refer via PYTHONPATH.
>
> You're right, its about code sharing/reusing - should have said it more
> clearly. What I am looking for is the pluginsystem that makes this easy.
> Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've seen)
> approach:
>
> You need to define something like:
> |
> | class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
> |
> in your blog software.

Why? Any reason you can't define it in a separate package the 
blog-software depends on, as well as your wiki?


And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior 
counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit 
declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic 
reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.

diez


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 12:48:11 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:48:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.
> [...]

How much of a speedup do you need?  Are we talking about orders of
magnitude (in which case you might want to consider using something
like the Multiple Polynomial Quadratic Sieve method instead, or as
well), or just a few percent?

(1) Have you profiled the code to see where it's spending most of its
time?  This is an essential first step.

(2) Obvious things: use range rather than xrange in your loops.  Make
sure that all heavily used variables/functions are local to the
function you're using them in.  E.g., you use range, min and abs in
the middle of the 'brent' function.  Instead, start the brent function
by setting _abs, _range, _min = abs, range, min, and then use _abs,
_range, etc. instead.  Lookups of local variables are faster than
globals.

(3) In the inner loop:

            for i in range(min(m,r-k)):
                y,q=(y*y+c)%n,q*abs(x-y)%n

you can get probably rid of the abs call.  It *might* also help to
avoid the tuple packing/unpacking (but see (1)).  You could try doing
a couple of steps at a time instead of one (i.e., unroll the loop a
little bit);  one advantage is that you probably don't need to bother
reducing q modulo n at every step;  every other step would be good
enough.  Depending on the relative speed of multiplication and
reduction, and the sizes of the integers involved, this might save
time.

(4) Have you tried using Montgomery reduction in the Brent method?
The inner loop of that method involves two reductions modulo n, which
may well be where the biggest bottleneck is.  But see (1). The other
obvious bottleneck is the gcd method;  if profiling shows that that's
the case, there might be ways to speed that up, too.  (E.g., use a
binary gcd algorithm, or use Lehmer's method.)

Good luck!
--
Mark


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 12:51:38 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:51:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 7:11?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > The term "pointer" is very abstract. ?Please give me a concrete
> > definition of a pointer.
>
> A programming language data type whose value directly specifies (or
> "points to") another value which is stored elsewhere in the computer
> memory.
>
> I quote from Wikipedia:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)
>
> ? ? [quote]
> ? ? A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the
> ? ? more abstracted reference data type
> ? ? [end quote]
>
> And later:
>
> ? ? [quote]
> ? ? While "pointer" has been used to refer to references in
> ? ? general, it more properly applies to data structures whose
> ? ? interface explicitly allows the pointer to be manipulated
> ? ? (arithmetically via pointer arithmetic) as a memory
> ? ? address...
> ? ? [end quote]
>
> And again:
>
> ? ? [quote]
> ? ? A memory pointer (or just pointer) is a primitive, the value
> ? ? of which is intended to be used as a memory address; it is said
> ? ? that a pointer points to a memory address. It is also said that
> ? ? a pointer points to a datum [in memory] when the pointer's value
> ? ? is the datum's memory address.
>
> ? ? More generally, a pointer is a kind of reference, and it is said
> ? ? that a pointer references a datum stored somewhere in memory; to
> ? ? obtain that datum is to dereference the pointer. The feature that
> ? ? separates pointers from other kinds of reference is that a
> ? ? pointer's value is meant to be interpreted as a memory address,
> ? ? which is a rather 'low-level' concept.
> ? ? [end quote]
>
> > A curly brace is one of these: { }
>
> > Pretty concrete, I hope.
>
> But { and } are glyphs in some typeface. Chances are that what you see,
> and what I see, are quite different, and whatever pixels we see, the
> compiler sees something radically different: two abstract characters
> implemented in some concrete fashion, but that concrete fashion is a mere
> implementation detail. They could be implemented as bytes x7b and x7d, or
> as four-byte sequences x0000007b and x0000007d for UTF-32, or who knows
> what in some other system. So the *concrete* representation of the curly
> brace varies according to the system.
>
> From that, it's not a difficult leap to say that Pascal's BEGIN and END
> key words are mere alternate spellings of the abstract "open curly brace"
> and "close curly brace" with different concrete representations, and from
> that it's a small step to say that the INDENT and DEDENT tokens seen by
> the Python compiler (but absent from Python source code!) are too.
>

Thanks.  It's a useful analogy; I think I understand your point
better.  I've been bouncing around between Python and Javascript a lot
lately, so your analogy resonates with me.  There are many times when
I find myself simply respelling things like begin/end, and those
respellings to me almost make me think of Python and Javascript as
different dialects of an underlying language.  Of course, there are
other places where the languages differ more substantively, too.

Going back to pointers vs. references, I think the key distinction
being made is that pointers allow specific memory manipulation,
although I think even there you're really just dealing with
abstractions.  The address 0x78F394D2 is a little bit closer to the
machine than, say, the 42nd element of a Python list, but they are
both just abstractions on top of underlying machines, whether the
machines are virtual, electronic circuits, vacuum tubes, whatever.
You can add 6 to 42 and get the 48th object, but its Python's
convention not to call the 48th object a memory address or expose a
reference to it as a pointer.  If I want to pass along the reference
to the 48th element of a list as the slot to be updated (i.e. with the
intention to actually mutate the list itself), then I need a tuple
like (lst, 48).



From kaklis at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 12:59:12 2010
From: kaklis at gmail.com (kaklis at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:59:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Comparing file last access date
Message-ID: <2e4fc893-2fe7-467a-8b5e-abe0816e665d@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi to all,
what i want is to search a folder, and if the last access date of the
files in that folder is greater than, lets say 7 days, those files
deleted. (Somekind of a file cleaner script)
I had problems with converting

now = today = datetime.date.today()
and
stats = os.stat(file)
lastAccessDate = time.localtime(stats[7])

into matching formats so that
     if (now - lastAccessDate) > 7:
                 delete the file

what i do wrong
Thanks in advance
Antonis


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 14 13:03:21 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 10:03:21 -0800
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9dt9$oe9$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
Mark Dickinson  <dickinsm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>(2) Obvious things: use range rather than xrange in your loops.  

Um, what?  You meant the reverse, surely?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb 14 13:20:27 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:20:27 +0000
Subject: Comparing file last access date
In-Reply-To: <2e4fc893-2fe7-467a-8b5e-abe0816e665d@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <2e4fc893-2fe7-467a-8b5e-abe0816e665d@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B783EEB.9030800@mrabarnett.plus.com>

kaklis at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi to all,
> what i want is to search a folder, and if the last access date of the
> files in that folder is greater than, lets say 7 days, those files
> deleted. (Somekind of a file cleaner script)
> I had problems with converting
> 
> now = today = datetime.date.today()
> and
> stats = os.stat(file)
> lastAccessDate = time.localtime(stats[7])
> 
> into matching formats so that
>      if (now - lastAccessDate) > 7:
>                  delete the file
> 
> what i do wrong
> Thanks in advance
> Antonis

I would use:

     seven_days = 7 * 24 * 60 * 60 # 7 days in seconds

     now = time.time() # in seconds since Epoch

     ...

     last_access = os.path.getatime(path) # in seconds since Epoch
     if now - last_access > seven_days:
         os.remove(path)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 14 13:21:25 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 10:21:25 -0800
Subject: shelve.open generates (22,
	'Invalid argument')  Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5
References: <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9ev5$i2u$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482 at r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
seth  <hklasky at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>We have a code that creates a simple Python shelve database. We are
>able to serialize objects and store them in the dbm file. This seem to
>work the same on Windows XP Python 2.5, Ubuntu 9.1 with Python 2.6,
>but on Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5 the database filename is changed by
>the operating system by attaching the .db extension to it. Does an one
>know why is that?

Nope -- any reason you can't change the filename?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb 14 13:32:29 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:32:29 -0500
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <a6aa571f-f051-4ded-b499-16fbcf6dddb3@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2465.1266012634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6aa571f-f051-4ded-b499-16fbcf6dddb3@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9fkm$or3$1@ger.gmane.org>

rantingrick wrote:
> On Feb 12, 4:10 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> 
> On Feb 12, 4:10 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> 
> Steve,
> Why do so many of your posts come in as doubles and triples. Is this a
> case of "studdering click finger" of some fault of your newsreader?
> 
> -- concerned fellow pythonista...

I suspect it's because I am being insufficiently disciplined about using
"reply" instead of "reply all". On gmane they only appear once, so I
suspect some other component of the mail/news loop is less assiduous
about de-duping the content.

How do you read the list?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 13:41:35 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:41:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <88a7ff43-3f1d-4e30-ad50-59b6c2f215f7@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 9:48?am, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> > c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> > python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.
> > [...]
>
> How much of a speedup do you need? ?Are we talking about orders of
> magnitude (in which case you might want to consider using something
> like the Multiple Polynomial Quadratic Sieve method instead, or as
> well), or just a few percent?
>
> (1) Have you profiled the code to see where it's spending most of its
> time? ?This is an essential first step.
>

I ditto the profiling recommendation.

http://docs.python.org/library/profile.html

It might also be useful to time your algorithm for n=10, 100, 1000,
10000, etc., to get a better sense of how the overall algorithm
behaves.


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 13:48:50 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:48:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<39babfd0-30af-4357-9bda-df1fdf1f43c5@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<038578a2$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <hl4ij2$r7$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2465.1266012634.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6aa571f-f051-4ded-b499-16fbcf6dddb3@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2544.1266172398.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7c65aa94-ed69-48d9-b37b-8b1cb376fa3e@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 10:32?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> rantingrick wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 4:10 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> >> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >>> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>
> > On Feb 12, 4:10 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> >> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >>> Le Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:14:57 +0000, Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
>
> > Steve,
> > Why do so many of your posts come in as doubles and triples. Is this a
> > case of "studdering click finger" of some fault of your newsreader?
>
> > -- concerned fellow pythonista...
>
> I suspect it's because I am being insufficiently disciplined about using
> "reply" instead of "reply all". On gmane they only appear once, so I
> suspect some other component of the mail/news loop is less assiduous
> about de-duping the content.
>
> How do you read the list?
>

Hi Steve, I mostly read the list through Google groups, and I have
seen occasional dups from you.  Of course, the readers themselves
could be a little smarter about recognizing duplication, but that does
not appear to be the case with Google.  On the other hand, I am not
seeing dups from you in a quick skim of this thread, so I wonder if it
just takes Google a little while to weed out the dups.



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 14:04:37 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:04:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please help with MemoryError
References: <534b45ba-3911-4fbe-b0e4-31e000a39a2c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<03849ff7$0$1277$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6bb774a3-ed05-402a-a7f2-9c472940379e@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 11, 5:50?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 15:39:09 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> > My Python program now consumes over 2 GB of memory and then I get a
> > MemoryError. ?I know I am reading lots of files into memory, but not 2GB
> > worth.

> > 2. ? ?When do I need
> > to manually allocate/deallocate memory and when can I trust Python to
> > take care of it?
>
> You never need to manually allocate memory.
>
> You *may* need to deallocate memory if you make "reference loops", where
> one object refers to itself:
>
> l = [] ?# make an empty list
> l.append(l) ?# add the list l to itself
>
> Python can break such simple reference loops itself, but for more
> complicated ones, you may need to break them yourself:
>
> a = []
> b = {2: a}
> c = (None, b)
> d = [1, 'z', c]
> a.append(d) ?# a reference loop
>
> Python will deallocate objects when they are no longer in use. They are
> always considered in use any time you have them assigned to a name, or in
> a list or dict or other structure which is in use.
>
> You can explicitly remove a name with the del command. For example:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> del x
>
> After deleting the name x, the list object itself is no longer in use
> anywhere and Python will deallocate it. But consider:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> y = x ?# y now refers to THE SAME list object
> del x
>
> Although you have deleted the name x, the list object is still bound to
> the name y, and so Python will *not* deallocate the list.
>
> Likewise:
>
> x = ['my', 'data']
> y = [None, 1, x, 'hello world']
> del x
>
> Although now the list isn't bound to a name, it is inside another list,
> and so Python will not deallocate it.
>

Another technique that comes up some time is that you have a list of
objects that you are processing:

x = [obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4]

When you are done processing obj1, you want to remove the reference to
it, but you do not necessarily want to change the list itself.  You
can break the reference by saying "x[0] = None" when you are done
handling obj1.  Of course, if you can avoid creating the list in the
first place, as some people have suggested, then you really get a
savings.

The setting-to-None technique is also occasionally useful with
objects, where you can say foo.bar = None when you are done with "bar"
but not with "foo."  Of course, the need to use such a technique often
points out a deeper code smell with Foo itself, but I've seen it come
up.

Steven's examples of a reference loop are deliberately simplified, of
course, but the chain of references in a real world program can get
quite long, and there's often great savings to be reaped if you can
break the "keystone" reference, so to speak.  In other words, breaking
just one reference often allows other references to fall down like
dominos.



From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 14:35:35 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:35:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl9dt9$oe9$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <b2399942-36d9-42a1-ae3e-0314dd12c9d6@f34g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 6:03?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8d... at q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
> Mark Dickinson ?<dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >(2) Obvious things: use range rather than xrange in your loops. ?
>
> Um, what? ?You meant the reverse, surely?

Er, yes I did.  Thanks!

--
Mark


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 14:52:51 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:52:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <892f7664-14e9-4ce4-ab50-499fc8552ec3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
> code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
> pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
> FACT1/).
> Thank you

One other thing:  in the 'brent' function, you're setting m to
randrange(1, n).  What's the purpose of this?  It looks to me as
though m controls the number of Pollard-Rho iterations that are
clumped together at one time (before doing a gcd operation), and using
a random number for this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

--
Mark


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 14 15:07:41 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:07:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<892f7664-14e9-4ce4-ab50-499fc8552ec3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0eac0e90-fd39-4851-b979-c109218fb0ba@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 11:52?am, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> > c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> > python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
> > code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
> > pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
> > FACT1/).
> > Thank you
>
> One other thing: ?in the 'brent' function, you're setting m to
> randrange(1, n). ?What's the purpose of this? ?It looks to me as
> though m controls the number of Pollard-Rho iterations that are
> clumped together at one time (before doing a gcd operation), and using
> a random number for this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
>

The randomness also makes the algorithm a little buggy.

I tried this input:

37^5 41^5

Usually I get the right answer.  Other times I get this:

37^5 41^3 1681^1

And occasionally it appears to get into an infinite loop, which
definitely could be a cause of "slowness." :)




From phiporiphic at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 15:23:41 2010
From: phiporiphic at gmail.com (Mr.John)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:23:41 -0500
Subject: Fighting with subprocess.Popen
Message-ID: <6ac1a5aa1002141223h54b6aca6k3f2a57a85fc1bad5@mail.gmail.com>

I'm using Python 2.6.2 as packaged with Fedora 12. I'm trying to use
subprocess.Popen() to call /usr/bin/pactl, a simple PulseAudio command
parser.

I'm having a hard time, because it only works part of the time. If pactl
gets a blank or invalid command, it says "No valid command specified.", and
this is what prints to stderr most of the time. I can get the result of
"pactl list", but anything else I try returns "No valid command specified."
So, pactl is getting called, but my args are disappearing somewhere. But not
every time...

Below is a test case that demonstrates this. Tests 1 & 2 concatenate the
command and the argument, Tests 3 & 4 mimic the python docs and use the form
Popen(["mycmd", "myarg"], ...), which never seems to work.

import subprocess

list = 'list'
list_sinks = 'list-sinks'

print("### TEST 1")
a = subprocess.Popen('pactl ' + list, shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
res = a.communicate()
print(repr(res[0]))

print("### TEST 2")
a = subprocess.Popen('pactl ' + list_sinks, shell=True,
stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
res = a.communicate()
print(repr(res[0]))

print("### TEST 3")
a = subprocess.Popen(['pactl', list], shell=True, stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
res = a.communicate()
print(repr(res[0]))

print("### TEST 4")
a = subprocess.Popen(['pactl', list_sinks], shell=True,
stdout=subprocess.PIPE)
res = a.communicate()
print(repr(res[0]))
### TEST 1
(success... snip)
### TEST 2
No valid command specified.
''
### TEST 3
No valid command specified.
''
### TEST 4
No valid command specified.
''

Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks,
John
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 14 15:39:40 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Feb 2010 12:39:40 -0800
Subject: equivalent of Ruby's Pathname?
References: <843d5af9-e8db-4352-a853-4c99664eadf8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f660d@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<hkq3lv$7k2$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8fc356e0-f3ed-4a67-9b37-f21561cef4a5@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hl9n2c$9r6$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <8fc356e0-f3ed-4a67-9b37-f21561cef4a5 at p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Sean DiZazzo  <half.italian at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 8, 2:36=A0pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article <dcace5fc-5ae9-4756-942d-6da7da2f6... at s36g2000prh.googlegroups=
>.com>,
>> Sean DiZazzo =A0<half.ital... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Why did Path() get rejected? Is it the idea itself, or just the
>>>approach that was used? What are the complaints?
>>
>> You should search for the discussiona around it.
>
>I read the discussion, and there was definitely some going back and
>forth on whether it should be sub-classed from string, but the
>conversation just seemed to stop abruptly with no decision one way of
>the other.  Maybe I missed a thread.
>
>I guess being dropped without a final go-ahead is just as good as a
>formal no anyway.

Not quite: because it was not rejected, someone who wants to shepherd the
process forward would likely be welcomed (even if it ends up with formal
rejection).  I suggest starting by writing your own summary of the
previous discussion and see if the people involved agree that your
summary is reasonably accurate.  Also check to see if the original PEP
writer wants to be involved or whether zie is willing to have you take
over.

Another good (and related) starting point would be to create a reasoning
favoring one side or the other that was not brought up in previous
discussion.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Feb 14 15:43:22 2010
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:43:22 +0100
Subject: Fighting with subprocess.Popen
In-Reply-To: <6ac1a5aa1002141223h54b6aca6k3f2a57a85fc1bad5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6ac1a5aa1002141223h54b6aca6k3f2a57a85fc1bad5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hl9n98$hpc$1@ger.gmane.org>

Mr.John wrote:
> Below is a test case that demonstrates this. Tests 1 & 2 concatenate the
> command and the argument, Tests 3 & 4 mimic the python docs and use the form
> Popen(["mycmd", "myarg"], ...), which never seems to work.

It doesn't work with shell=True because the shell is not able to
interpret the list form. It's recommended that you don't use shell=True
unless you need a shell.

Christian



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Sun Feb 14 15:46:13 2010
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:46:13 +0100
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
In-Reply-To: <hl650a$1je$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7tngf2Fo5rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<32835daa-ced4-4c67-b335-25b44d734674@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hl650a$1je$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <tiZdn.271380$4N3.63797@newsfe06.ams2>

Op 2010-02-13 13:14, Alf P. Steinbach schreef:
> * hjebbers:
>> I enlarged the windows page file from 750Kb to 1.5Gb .
>> The crash still happens.
>> btw, the crash does not happen at a peak memory usage.
>> According to windows task manager, at the moment of crash mem usage of
>> my program is 669kb, peak memory usage is 1.136kb
>>
>> henk-jan
> 
> Probably you meant to write "M", not "k" or "K"?
> 
> I've never managed to make much sense of the displays in Windows' Task Manager, 
> if that's what you're using, but I think the mem usage it's displaying by 
> default is the process' working set, or something very similar to that measure.
> 
> You can display additional columns in Task Manager, and one useful one is how 
> much virtual memory is allocated,.
> 
> And perhaps then (if that's not what you're looking it already) it'll be closer 
> to 2 GiB?

Note that the memory measurements in Task Manager are pretty limited
and. Comparing Task Manager and Process Explorer:

Task Manager - Process Explorer
Mem Usage - Working Set
VM Size - Private Bytes
n/a - Virtual Size

I tend to trust Process Explorer a lot more than Task Manager. Note that
what Task Manager calls VM Size is not the size of the virtual memory as
might be expected (if Process Explorer is to be trusted), and that Task
Manager doesn't show the virtual memory size (at least on Windows XP).

-- 
The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge
faster than society gathers wisdom.
  -- Isaac Asimov

Roel Schroeven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Feb 14 16:23:30 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:23:30 -0500
Subject: Function attributes [OT]
In-Reply-To: <hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl9pkd$oka$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/13/2010 8:14 AM, Steve Holden wrote:

> Gmane is primarily a news (NNTP-based) service, though for reasons best
> know to the organizers they choose to rename the standard newsgroups to
> fit their own idea of how the universe should be organized, so there the
> group becomes gmane.comp.python.general.

As I understand the site, the last I read a year or two ago, gmane is a 
technical mailinglist-to-news gateway. It does not mirror newsgroups, 
standard or not. It only mirrors lists such as python-list, not 
newsgroups, such comp.lang.python. In doing so, it organizes the lists 
into categories like g.comp.python, which has about 200 subgroups 
mirroring 200 python lists.



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sun Feb 14 16:32:36 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:32:36 -0500
Subject: Function attributes [OT]
In-Reply-To: <hl9pkd$oka$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <19765822-7989-49d9-b1d2-88b403a361f0@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<op.u7xlk2bjx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hkvtad$e2a$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2414.1265931608.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m2hbpmj4jb.fsf@googlemail.com>	<op.u71ly4ogx6zn5v@lepton.softlabbsas.com.ar>	<hl60rv$4ob$1@ger.gmane.org>	<hl68jk$oft$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<hl9pkd$oka$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hl9q6g$pl2$1@ger.gmane.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/13/2010 8:14 AM, Steve Holden wrote:
> 
>> Gmane is primarily a news (NNTP-based) service, though for reasons best
>> know to the organizers they choose to rename the standard newsgroups to
>> fit their own idea of how the universe should be organized, so there the
>> group becomes gmane.comp.python.general.
> 
> As I understand the site, the last I read a year or two ago, gmane is a
> technical mailinglist-to-news gateway. It does not mirror newsgroups,
> standard or not. It only mirrors lists such as python-list, not
> newsgroups, such comp.lang.python. In doing so, it organizes the lists
> into categories like g.comp.python, which has about 200 subgroups
> mirroring 200 python lists.
> 
That would make more sense. I know that the python.org infrastructure
acts as a gateway between the mailing list and the newsgroup.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From rridge at csclub.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Feb 14 17:05:07 2010
From: rridge at csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:05:07 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
	<7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<vg3r5opotmu.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>
Message-ID: <hl9s2j$716$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> writes:
> No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit
> through paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.

Anssi Saari  <as at sci.fi> wrote:
>That too. I admit, after checking, that you can't go above 3 GiB per
>process even in server Windows. But for Linux there exists (or
>existed, since it seems it hasn't been updated since 2004) a kernel
>patch which provides a "4GB/4GB" address split. Kernel is in one
>segment, userland in another and hence a process can access full 4GB.

Windows has a similar feature that allows 32-bit applications running on
64-bit versions of Windows to have a nearly 4Gb virtual address space.
Windows also allows 32-bit applications to use more than 4GB of physical
memory through a paging mechanism called "Address Windowing Extensions".
Also 32-bit applications can effectively use more than 4GB of RAM through
indirect means like multiple processes, the disk cache or video card RAM.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge at csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  


From joe at joemoney.net  Sun Feb 14 17:42:35 2010
From: joe at joemoney.net (monkeys paw)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:42:35 -0500
Subject: new python install
Message-ID: <4badnYd5OJHA4eXWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.com>

Upon invoking python, it hangs
until Ctrl^C is typed, and then the
 >>> interactive shell begins.

Like so:

joemoney% python
Python 2.4.6 (#1, Dec 13 2009, 23:45:11) [C] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
# Hangs ^^^ at this point until ^C is typed
^C

 >>>


I've seen this in other new installs and wondered if there is
a common problem that would cause this? It's on a sun os box


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Feb 14 18:20:40 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:20:40 +0100
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2535.1266146945.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2473.1266021123.28905.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.13.07.01.38.875000@nowhere.com>	<vg3vde1p0s8.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>	<7to2vmF2kvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2535.1266146945.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7treq9FrsnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 14.02.10 12:28, schrieb Laszlo Nagy:
> 2010.02.13. 17:40 keltez?ssel, Diez B. Roggisch ?rta:
>> Am 13.02.10 17:18, schrieb Anssi Saari:
>>> Nobody<nobody at nowhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> A single process can't use much more than 2GiB of RAM without a
>>>> 64-bit CPU
>>>> and OS.
>>>
>>> That's not really true. Even Windows XP has the /3GB boot option to
>>> allow 3 GiB per process. On PCs, free operating systems and server
>>> Windows can use PAE to give access to full 4 GB per process.
>>
>> No, PAE can be used to access much more memory than 4GB - albeit
>> through paging. AFAIK up to 2^36 Bytes.
> PAE is for the kernel. Yes, you can use much more memory with 32 bit
> kernel + PAE. But the ~3G per 32bit process limit still applies. It is
> because the PAE extension allows the kernel to distribute the same
> virtual address ranges between different processes, but map them to
> different physical memory addresses. However, the process that was
> compiled and is running in 32 bit mode, cannot access more than ~3GB
> simply because it is not able to address more memory locations with 32
> bit addresses. (minus ~1G is because it needs virtual addresses for I/O
> devices as well, and those addresses cannot be mapped to physical memory).

No. It can access more, through paging, similar like mmap. Specialized 
software like databases do that to keep large data in memory. And this 
has nothing to do with compilation.

Of course this doesn't help for python, at least not for python-objects, 
as these need a flat memory model. But it's not true that only the 
kernels benefit from the PAE.

Diez


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Sun Feb 14 18:41:59 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 15:41:59 -0800
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B788A47.1040609@stoneleaf.us>

Steve Howell wrote:
> On Feb 14, 7:11 am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:45:47 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
>>
>>>The term "pointer" is very abstract.  Please give me a concrete
>>>definition of a pointer.
>>
>>A programming language data type whose value directly specifies (or
>>"points to") another value which is stored elsewhere in the computer
>>memory.
>>
>>I quote from Wikipedia:
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_(computing)
>>
>>    [quote]
>>    A pointer is a simple, less abstracted implementation of the
>>    more abstracted reference data type
>>    [end quote]
>>
>>And later:
>>
>>    [quote]
>>    While "pointer" has been used to refer to references in
>>    general, it more properly applies to data structures whose
>>    interface explicitly allows the pointer to be manipulated
>>    (arithmetically via pointer arithmetic) as a memory
>>    address...
>>    [end quote]
>>
>>And again:
>>
>>    [quote]
>>    A memory pointer (or just pointer) is a primitive, the value
>>    of which is intended to be used as a memory address; it is said
>>    that a pointer points to a memory address. It is also said that
>>    a pointer points to a datum [in memory] when the pointer's value
>>    is the datum's memory address.
>>
>>    More generally, a pointer is a kind of reference, and it is said
>>    that a pointer references a datum stored somewhere in memory; to
>>    obtain that datum is to dereference the pointer. The feature that
>>    separates pointers from other kinds of reference is that a
>>    pointer's value is meant to be interpreted as a memory address,
>>    which is a rather 'low-level' concept.
>>    [end quote]
>>
>>
>>>A curly brace is one of these: { }
>>
>>>Pretty concrete, I hope.
>>
>>But { and } are glyphs in some typeface. Chances are that what you see,
>>and what I see, are quite different, and whatever pixels we see, the
>>compiler sees something radically different: two abstract characters
>>implemented in some concrete fashion, but that concrete fashion is a mere
>>implementation detail. They could be implemented as bytes x7b and x7d, or
>>as four-byte sequences x0000007b and x0000007d for UTF-32, or who knows
>>what in some other system. So the *concrete* representation of the curly
>>brace varies according to the system.
>>
>>From that, it's not a difficult leap to say that Pascal's BEGIN and END
>>key words are mere alternate spellings of the abstract "open curly brace"
>>and "close curly brace" with different concrete representations, and from
>>that it's a small step to say that the INDENT and DEDENT tokens seen by
>>the Python compiler (but absent from Python source code!) are too.
>>
> 
> 
> Thanks.  It's a useful analogy; I think I understand your point
> better.  I've been bouncing around between Python and Javascript a lot
> lately, so your analogy resonates with me.  There are many times when
> I find myself simply respelling things like begin/end, and those
> respellings to me almost make me think of Python and Javascript as
> different dialects of an underlying language.  Of course, there are
> other places where the languages differ more substantively, too.
> 
> Going back to pointers vs. references, I think the key distinction
> being made is that pointers allow specific memory manipulation,
> although I think even there you're really just dealing with
> abstractions.  The address 0x78F394D2 is a little bit closer to the
> machine than, say, the 42nd element of a Python list, but they are
> both just abstractions on top of underlying machines, whether the
> machines are virtual, electronic circuits, vacuum tubes, whatever.
> You can add 6 to 42 and get the 48th object, but its Python's
> convention not to call the 48th object a memory address or expose a
> reference to it as a pointer.  If I want to pass along the reference
> to the 48th element of a list as the slot to be updated (i.e. with the
> intention to actually mutate the list itself), then I need a tuple
> like (lst, 48).
> 

I think that's the key right there -- if 48 was really a pointer, you 
wouldn't need to pass lst in as 48 would in fact be the memory address 
of the object you wanted to manipulate.

~Ethan~


From m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu  Sun Feb 14 19:19:07 2010
From: m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu (Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:19:07 -0500
Subject: FW: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E056@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>,
	<6546CE32-E9EA-4E33-9C7B-8A9808A4A083@gmail.com>,
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E056@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E057@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>


I use the physical and kernel memory boxes in the windows task manager under the performance tab... in that way I can see the exact RAM that just OS and idle processes occupy before I run my app, and then also the limit at which my app pushes the memory...


M. Angelica Echavarria-Gregory, M.Sc., E.I.
Ph.D Candidate
University of Miami
Phone 305 284-3611
________________________________________
From: ssteinerX at gmail.com [ssteinerx at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:58 PM
To: Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: MemoryError, can I use more?

On Feb 12, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:

> Dear group:
>
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
>
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...

How are you determining that it has occupied "exactly only 2.2GB?"

S

From m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu  Sun Feb 14 19:20:44 2010
From: m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu (Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:20:44 -0500
Subject: FW: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>,
	<a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>,
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>


Dear Chris,

One of the machines I tested my app in is 64 bit and happened the same. The RAM consumed by the OS and other processes is already included in the 2.2 I'm telling... my app enters to work when the RAM is already consumed in ~600 MB in the 3- 32 bit machines ... in the 64 bit machine was exactly the same only that it started a little bit higher because it has windows 7... so should I understand that there is nothing I can do for my app to use up more RAM?

Thanks for your time and answer,
Angelica.


M. Angelica Echavarria-Gregory, M.Sc., E.I.
Ph.D Candidate
University of Miami
Phone 305 284-3611

________________________________
From: Chris Kaynor [ckaynor at zindagigames.com]
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:44 PM
To: Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: MemoryError, can I use more?

A 32 bit app can only use 4 GB of memory itself (regardless of the amount of system ram), the OS claims some of this for the system, dlls occupy some of it, etc. As such, the app can only really use a smaller subset (generally between 2 to 3 GB, depending upon the app and the OS).

Chris


On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica <m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu<mailto:m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu>> wrote:
Dear group:

I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.

Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...

Thanks,
Angelica.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 14 19:41:10 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 01:41:10 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Ethan Furman:
> Steve Howell wrote:
>>
>> Going back to pointers vs. references, I think the key distinction
>> being made is that pointers allow specific memory manipulation,
>> although I think even there you're really just dealing with
>> abstractions.  The address 0x78F394D2 is a little bit closer to the
>> machine than, say, the 42nd element of a Python list, but they are
>> both just abstractions on top of underlying machines, whether the
>> machines are virtual, electronic circuits, vacuum tubes, whatever.
>> You can add 6 to 42 and get the 48th object, but its Python's
>> convention not to call the 48th object a memory address or expose a
>> reference to it as a pointer.  If I want to pass along the reference
>> to the 48th element of a list as the slot to be updated (i.e. with the
>> intention to actually mutate the list itself), then I need a tuple
>> like (lst, 48).
>>
> 
> I think that's the key right there -- if 48 was really a pointer, you 
> wouldn't need to pass lst in as 48 would in fact be the memory address 
> of the object you wanted to manipulate.

The generalization is known as a "based pointer".

Except where it's a fundamental abstraction in a programming language, where it 
might be called anything.

For example, in C++ some so called "member pointers" are logically based 
pointers. They have pointer syntax (as do C++ iterators, which are not 
necessarily pointers), but member pointers are not pointers in the C++ 
standard's sense; in particular, dereferencing a C++ member pointer yields a 
typeless entity, which is not the case for a normal pointer, although that 
standard confusingly calls also member pointers pointers in some places, and in 
other places uses the pointer term only about basic pointers.

So, delving into the details of that terminology means traveling into a pretty 
chaotic territory. But on the other hand, going for the more abstract it gets 
cleaner and simpler. The Wikipedia article is about in the middle somewhere.

It is perhaps not confusing that it is confusing to many. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From tgrav at mac.com  Sun Feb 14 20:03:26 2010
From: tgrav at mac.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:03:26 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <5664AF57-8837-4012-ABB4-B9DAA65B0A2F@mac.com>


On Feb 14, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:

> 
> Dear Chris,
> 
> One of the machines I tested my app in is 64 bit and happened the same. The RAM consumed by the OS and other processes is already included in the 2.2 I'm telling... my app enters to work when the RAM is already consumed in ~600 MB in the 3- 32 bit machines ... in the 64 bit machine was exactly the same only that it started a little bit higher because it has windows 7... so should I understand that there is nothing I can do for my app to use up more RAM?

It is not just the machine. If your python is compiled as 32bit then it will be limited to 2GB.
To use more you have to use a 64 bit python on a 64 bit machine. 

Tommy
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb 14 21:28:16 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:28:16 -0600
Subject: new python install
In-Reply-To: <4badnYd5OJHA4eXWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <4badnYd5OJHA4eXWnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4B78B140.9020804@tim.thechases.com>

monkeys paw wrote:
> Upon invoking python, it hangs
> until Ctrl^C is typed, and then the
>  >>> interactive shell begins.
> 
> Like so:
> 
> joemoney% python
> Python 2.4.6 (#1, Dec 13 2009, 23:45:11) [C] on sunos5
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> # Hangs ^^^ at this point until ^C is typed
> ^C
> 
>  >>>
> 
> I've seen this in other new installs and wondered if there is
> a common problem that would cause this? It's on a sun os box

Though I've never seen such live, perhaps you have some sort of 
site-wide or user-specific config file such as ~/.pythonrc.py or 
a site-wide site.py file.  You can read up a bit at

   http://docs.python.org/library/site.html
   http://docs.python.org/library/user.html

I believe the way to test this is to start Python with either the 
-s or -S option (or both) to disable looking for user or site 
modules.  Also check if you have some crazy value set for 
$PYTHONSTARTUP.

   http://docs.python.org/using/cmdline.html#cmdoption-S

My guess is that something in one of these places is triggering 
the hang until you kill that with a ^C after which you get the 
requested prompt.

Hope this helps,

-tkc




From davea at ieee.org  Sun Feb 14 22:16:51 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:16:51 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>,
	<a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>,
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
Message-ID: <4B78BCA3.4070801@ieee.org>

Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica wrote:
> Dear Chris,
>
> One of the machines I tested my app in is 64 bit and happened the same. The RAM consumed by the OS and other processes is already included in the 2.2 I'm telling... my app enters to work when the RAM is already consumed in ~600 MB in the 3- 32 bit machines ... in the 64 bit machine was exactly the same only that it started a little bit higher because it has windows 7... so should I understand that there is nothing I can do for my app to use up more RAM?
>
> Thanks for your time and answer,
> Angelica.
>
>
> M. Angelica Echavarria-Gregory, M.Sc., E.I.
> Ph.D Candidate
> University of Miami
> Phone 305 284-3611
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Kaynor [ckaynor at zindagigames.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:44 PM
> To: Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica
> Cc: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Re: MemoryError, can I use more?
>
> A 32 bit app can only use 4 GB of memory itself (regardless of the amount of system ram), the OS claims some of this for the system, dlls occupy some of it, etc. As such, the app can only really use a smaller subset (generally between 2 to 3 GB, depending upon the app and the OS).
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Echavarria Gregory, Maria Angelica <m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu<mailto:m.echavarriagregory at umiami.edu>> wrote:
> Dear group:
>
> I am developing a program using Python 2.5.4 in windows 32 OS. The amount of data it works with is huge. I have managed to keep memory footprint low, but have found that, independent of the physical RAM of the machine, python always gives the MemoryError message when it has occupied exactly only 2.2 GB. I have tested this in 4 different machines, all with memory of 3 to 4 GB... I'm amazed.
>
> Could any of you please help me to figure out how to change that limit? I typed help(MemoryError) and it is a class itself, but that help told me nothing I can use...
>
> Thanks,
> Angelica.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
>   
There are three different limits at play here.  Since you're still not 
saying how you're "measuring" usage, we've all been guessing just which 
one you're hitting.  There's physical RAM, virtual address space, and 
swappable space (swapfile on disk).  Each reaches some limit in 
different ways.

And there are probably a dozen different ways to measure "memory use,"  
that get a dozen different answers.  If you say which one you're using, 
that gives "exactly 2.2 GB,"  maybe someone will be familiar with that 
particular approach, and its meaning.

DaveA



From tgrav at mac.com  Sun Feb 14 22:39:13 2010
From: tgrav at mac.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:39:13 -0500
Subject: MemoryError, can I use more?
In-Reply-To: <4B78BCA3.4070801@ieee.org>
References: <2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF6274378DA2BA0@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<a03c8d051002121644q50bfa0elf806dfb9d6b40946@mail.gmail.com>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E055@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<2E95F75EDC25D54999387A1E2E6EF62755EEF0E058@MBX02.cgcent.miami.edu>
	<4B78BCA3.4070801@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <5FB189C5-544D-4ADF-975C-1F32776C2DB5@mac.com>


On Feb 14, 2010, at 10:16 PM, Dave Angel wrote:

> There are three different limits at play here.  Since you're still not saying how you're "measuring" usage, we've all been guessing just which one you're hitting.  There's physical RAM, virtual address space, and swappable space (swapfile on disk).  Each reaches some limit in different ways.
> 
> And there are probably a dozen different ways to measure "memory use,"  that get a dozen different answers.  If you say which one you're using, that gives "exactly 2.2 GB,"  maybe someone will be familiar with that particular approach, and its meaning.

I ran into the same problem on Mac OS X and investigated it. My problem was that the program reached a memory error
after using 2.2GB of memory. Now what caused it specifically I am less sure of, but switching to a 64bit python on 
a 64bit OS (snow leopard) means that I now frequently move past this boundary (when I have enough memory of course :)

Tommy


From chiranjeevi.muttoju at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 03:50:33 2010
From: chiranjeevi.muttoju at gmail.com (chiranjeevi muttoju)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:50:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hi can any one please help me..
Message-ID: <997acf4f-cf71-4709-bb7a-d6ab68d4ec0f@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
when i'm installing the pytc(python wrapper for tokyo cabinet.) i'm
getting the fallowing error.. i'm getting this error for python2.6
only.. for python 2.4 its working fine..
---------------------------------------------
running install
running build
running build_ext
building 'pytc' extension
gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/pytc.o -L/usr/local/
lib -L. -ltokyocabinet -lpython2.6 -o build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/
pytc.so
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.6
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

---------------------------------------------

What is that error. if any body know please help me.. thank you.


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 04:11:18 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:11:18 +0100
Subject: hi can any one please help me..
In-Reply-To: <997acf4f-cf71-4709-bb7a-d6ab68d4ec0f@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <997acf4f-cf71-4709-bb7a-d6ab68d4ec0f@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlb301$t84$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* chiranjeevi muttoju:
> Hi,
> when i'm installing the pytc(python wrapper for tokyo cabinet.) i'm
> getting the fallowing error.. i'm getting this error for python2.6
> only.. for python 2.4 its working fine..
> ---------------------------------------------
> running install
> running build
> running build_ext
> building 'pytc' extension
> gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/pytc.o -L/usr/local/
> lib -L. -ltokyocabinet -lpython2.6 -o build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/
> pytc.so
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.6
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> What is that error. if any body know please help me.. thank you.

It means the compiler can't find the python2.6 library; it's not in any of the 
directories where gcc searches for libraries.

You can specify (additional) directories where gcc should search for libraries 
via the LIBRARY_PATH environment variable.

At least according to my MinGW documentation for Windows, but I assume that it's 
the same in Linux.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From steve at lonetwin.net  Mon Feb 15 04:12:53 2010
From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:42:53 +0530
Subject: hi can any one please help me..
References: <997acf4f-cf71-4709-bb7a-d6ab68d4ec0f@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlb36l$t7h$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Hello,

On 02/15/2010 02:20 PM, chiranjeevi muttoju wrote:
> Hi,
> when i'm installing the pytc(python wrapper for tokyo cabinet.) i'm
> getting the fallowing error.. i'm getting this error for python2.6
> only.. for python 2.4 its working fine..
> ---------------------------------------------
> running install
> running build
> running build_ext
> building 'pytc' extension
> gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/pytc.o -L/usr/local/
> lib -L. -ltokyocabinet -lpython2.6 -o build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/
> pytc.so
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.6
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You need to install the python development libraries. For example if you are 
doing this on a Fedora or Red Hat Enterprise Linux system, execute the command:

$ yum install python-devel

...to install the necessary libraries.

cheers,
- steve


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 04:23:52 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 01:23:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Printing with raw_input
Message-ID: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Feb 15 05:11:20 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:11:20 +0100
Subject: Printing with raw_input
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Joan Miller wrote:

> Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?

You can test this yourself without reading the C source:

Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec  7 2009, 18:43:55)
[GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> class A:
...     def write(self, s):
...             sys.__stdout__.write(s.upper())
...
>>> sys.stdout = A()
>>> print "yadda"
YADDA
>>> raw_input("foo")
FOObar
'BAR'

Peter


From katrinewhiteson at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 05:32:36 2010
From: katrinewhiteson at gmail.com (katrine)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:32:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: trouble installing matplotlib - syslibroot: multiply specified
Message-ID: <13c961f8-ccbe-484d-b5ee-f620ef276f32@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Hope you guys don't mind a question about building matplotlib from a
biologist who wants to learn how to use python.

I am trying to install matplotlib on my mac with OS X 10.4.11, using
python 2.6.4 and Xcode 2.2.1. I have had a few fights with freetype
and Tkinter, and I think I've got those worked out. I have configured
and installed numpy, freetype, zlib, and libpng. But I am still
getting an error about multiply specified syslibroot  - does this make
sense to anyone? Maybe I need to change the PATH somehow? Or maybe
Xcode is not installed properly? (I am using the make.osx provided
with matplotlib, and I am including the top of the file as I am
running it here:

# build mpl into a local install dir with
PREFIX=/usr/local

MPLVERSION=0.99.1.1
PYVERSION=2.6
PYTHON=python${PYVERSION}
ZLIBVERSION=1.2.3
PNGVERSION=1.2.33
FREETYPEVERSION=2.3.7
MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.4

## You shouldn't need to configure past this point


CFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc -I${PREFIX}/include  -isysroot /Developer/
SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk"
LDFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc -L${PREFIX}/lib -syslibroot,/Developer/
SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk"


----------------------
******************
----------------------

Now here is what happens when I try to make the make.osx:

katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$ make -f make.osx mpl_build
export MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.4 &&\
export CFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/local/
include/freetype2 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk" &&\
export LDFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc -L/usr/local/lib -syslibroot,/
Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk" &&\
python2.6 setup.py build
============================================================================
BUILDING MATPLOTLIB
            matplotlib: 0.99.1.1
                python: 2.6.4 (r264:75821M, Oct 27 2009, 19:48:32)
[GCC
                        4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)]
              platform: darwin

REQUIRED DEPENDENCIES
                 numpy: 1.3.0
             freetype2: found, but unknown version (no pkg-config)
                        * WARNING: Could not find 'freetype2' headers
in any
                        * of '.', './freetype2'.

OPTIONAL BACKEND DEPENDENCIES
                libpng: found, but unknown version (no pkg-config)
                        * Could not find 'libpng' headers in any of
'.'
               Tkinter: Tkinter: 73770, Tk: 8.4, Tcl: 8.4
              wxPython: no
                        * wxPython not found
                  Gtk+: no
                        * Building for Gtk+ requires pygtk; you must
be able
                        * to "import gtk" in your build/install
environment
       Mac OS X native: yes
                    Qt: no
                   Qt4: no
                 Cairo: no



OPTIONAL DATE/TIMEZONE DEPENDENCIES
              datetime: present, version unknown
              dateutil: matplotlib will provide
                  pytz: matplotlib will provide
adding pytz

OPTIONAL USETEX DEPENDENCIES
                dvipng: no
           ghostscript: /bin/sh: line 1: gs: command not found
                 latex: no

[Edit setup.cfg to suppress the above messages]
============================================================================
pymods ['pylab']
packages ['matplotlib', 'matplotlib.backends',
'matplotlib.projections', 'mpl_toolkits', 'mpl_toolkits.mplot3d',
'mpl_toolkits.axes_grid', 'matplotlib.sphinxext',
'matplotlib.numerix', 'matplotlib.numerix.mlab',
'matplotlib.numerix.ma', 'matplotlib.numerix.linear_algebra',
'matplotlib.numerix.random_array', 'matplotlib.numerix.fft',
'matplotlib.delaunay', 'pytz', 'dateutil', 'dateutil/zoneinfo']
running build
running build_py
copying lib/matplotlib/mpl-data/matplotlibrc -> build/lib.macosx-10.4-
fat-2.6/matplotlib/mpl-data
copying lib/matplotlib/mpl-data/matplotlib.conf -> build/
lib.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/matplotlib/mpl-data
running build_ext
building 'matplotlib.ft2font' extension
c++ -arch ppc -arch i386 -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -g -
bundle -undefined dynamic_lookup -arch i386 -arch ppc -L/usr/local/lib
-syslibroot,/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -arch i386 -arch ppc -I/
usr/local/include -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -isysroot /Developer/
SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/src/ft2font.o
build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/src/mplutils.o build/temp.macosx-10.4-
fat-2.6/CXX/cxx_extensions.o build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/CXX/
cxxsupport.o build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/CXX/
IndirectPythonInterface.o build/temp.macosx-10.4-fat-2.6/CXX/
cxxextensions.o -lfreetype -lz -lstdc++ -lm -o build/lib.macosx-10.4-
fat-2.6/matplotlib/ft2font.so
powerpc-apple-darwin8-g++-4.0.1: unrecognized option '-syslibroot,/
Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk'
i686-apple-darwin8-g++-4.0.1: unrecognized option '-syslibroot,/
Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk'
//usr/bin/ld: -usr/syslibroot: multiply specified
bincollect2: /ld: -syslibroot: multiply specified
ld returned 1 exit statuscollect2:
ld returned 1 exit status
lipo: can't open input file: /var/tmp//ccym1XU1.out (No such file or
directory)
error: command 'c++' failed with exit status 1
make: *** [mpl_build] Error 1
katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$ gcc -V
gcc: argument to `-V' is missing
katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$ which gcc
/usr/bin/gcc
katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$   c f yj ny
-bash: c: command not found
katrine-whitesons-computer:/Applications/Q/matplotlib-0.99.1.1
katrinewhiteson$ k/l
-bash: k/l: No such file or directory


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 06:20:10 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:20:10 +0100
Subject: trouble installing matplotlib - syslibroot: multiply specified
In-Reply-To: <13c961f8-ccbe-484d-b5ee-f620ef276f32@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <13c961f8-ccbe-484d-b5ee-f620ef276f32@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlbahl$jga$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* katrine:
> 
> Hope you guys don't mind a question about building matplotlib from a
> biologist who wants to learn how to use python.
> 
> I am trying to install matplotlib on my mac with OS X 10.4.11, using
> python 2.6.4 and Xcode 2.2.1. I have had a few fights with freetype
> and Tkinter, and I think I've got those worked out. I have configured
> and installed numpy, freetype, zlib, and libpng. But I am still
> getting an error about multiply specified syslibroot  - does this make
> sense to anyone?

Don't know if this will help, but I just googled "syslibroot", and it coughed up 
the following discussion:

   <url: http://lists.apple.com/archives/unix-porting/2005/Oct/msg00003.html>

Quoting from that thread: "Try not setting LDFLAGS.  Passing -isysroot to gcc 
might cause it to pass -isyslibroot to the linker if you're using gcc to link."


Cheers,

- Alf


From hjebbers at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 06:39:57 2010
From: hjebbers at gmail.com (hjebbers)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:39:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python crash on windows but not on linux
References: <9f2aa3f6-65a2-4921-b60e-350ae2b0a790@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<accb66c8-38c0-491c-9b04-bb7790a76a5b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<e642039f-0b5f-4355-aedb-319edfd84078@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<hl1gkt$9mc$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<94e7fdd8-2021-4bee-9d16-228bc9224f88@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hl3nse$fs2$03$1@news.t-online.com>
	<603f57e4-2c7d-4007-8ecf-3d19295b0e3c@r33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2492.1266053151.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<54238800-dfb5-4c4a-af21-109b7a68dc6b@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2497.1266065321.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9d348145-1dec-42cb-a4c3-408c9833a1bc@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 13 feb, 13:48, Dave Angel <da... at ieee.org> wrote:
> hjebbers wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 10:25 am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:21:07 -0800 (PST), hjebbers <hjebb... at gmail.com>
> >> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >>> What strikes me is:
> >>> 1. the crash on windows, but linux works OK (same test sets)
> >>> 2. the linux box has 750Mb RAM, the windows box has 1.5Gb (twice as
> >>> much).
>
> >> ? ? ? ? Which on its own does not mean much.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? Windows in a normal installation only grants 2GB address space to
> >> user code, reserving the other 2GB space for the OS shared libraries. If
> >> your program attempts to allocate over that, it will fail. That the
> >> Windows box has twice the physical memory only means it doesn't resort
> >> to page swapping as soon.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? There is a boot parameter switch that toggles Windows into a 3GB
> >> user/1GB OS mode --
>
> > hey, that would be great!! on my 1,5G mahcine ;-)
>
> >> it is mainly meant for server machines where there
> >> won't be many disjoint OS libraries loaded, but the server applications
> >> need lots of data space.
>
> >> ? ? ? ? What split does the Linux OS use? If it give 3GB to user space,
> >> while you'd start to page swap much soon, you'd also have 50% more
> >> virtual memory that can be allocated than under Windows.
> >> --
> >> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> >> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> > I will check this.....any advice on how to check this?
>
> > henk-jan
>
> As I posted in recent thread on Tutor,
>
> But the one you might want is a boot.ini option that tells the OS to
> only reserve 1gb for itself, and leave 3gb for user space. ?But there
> are tradeoffs, including the need to modify an application's executable
> to take advantage of it. ?And the whole system may run substantially
> slower, even when your're extended app isn't running. ?See links:
> ?http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx
>
> http://blogs.technet.com/askperf/archive/2007/03/23/memory-management...
>
> DaveA

Yes, you are right, i also would need to modify the executable.

the reason why I posted on this list was the hard crash of python -
which python really should not do I think. AFAICS there is no 'bug' in
my edi translator (runs OK on linux) - but it uses far to much
memory.....
For me, I am going to bring back the memory footprint of my edi
translator. Which should be fairly easy to do.

kind regards,
henk-jan


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 06:40:11 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:40:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Printing with raw_input
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <d78cb048-338d-4eef-a5be-d971e65f43cf@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On 15 feb, 10:11, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> Joan Miller wrote:
> > Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?
>
> You can test this yourself without reading the C source:
>
> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec ?7 2009, 18:43:55)
> [GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> import sys
> >>> class A:
>
> ... ? ? def write(self, s):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? sys.__stdout__.write(s.upper())
> ...>>> sys.stdout = A()
> >>> print "yadda"
> YADDA
> >>> raw_input("foo")
>
> FOObar
> 'BAR'
>
> Peter

It was to display the output inside a GUI app. overriding
`sys.stdout`. And as `print` also uses internally `sys.stdout.write`
then can be used `print` the shell script and get the output too in
the GUI, cann't it?


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Feb 15 07:05:58 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:05:58 +0100
Subject: Printing with raw_input
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d78cb048-338d-4eef-a5be-d971e65f43cf@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlbda7$73r$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Joan Miller wrote:

>> > Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?

> It was to display the output inside a GUI app. overriding
> `sys.stdout`. And as `print` also uses internally `sys.stdout.write`
> then can be used `print` the shell script and get the output too in
> the GUI, cann't it?

It should be easy to collect data written with print and show it in a gui, 
but I can't see how you would integrate raw_input() into a gui app. 

As to shell scripts, you can invoke them via subprocess, or, if the script 
needs user interaction, via pexpect.

Peter


From chyavana at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 07:35:32 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:35:32 +0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
Message-ID: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>

Dear Folks,

I want to execute a command from within python using the subprocess module.

Coming from a Perl background, I thought I could use variable 
interpolation in strings, but found that this is neither supported nor 
the Python way. Accordingly, I am a little at sea about how to 
accomplish it.

I have stated what I am trying to do in the minimal example below:

---
import subprocess

width = 5
height = 30
colors = ['#abcdef]', '#456789']
filename = "/tmp/image.png"

# I want to get the equivalent of variable interpolation in Perl
# so that the command
#
# convert -size 5x30 gradient:#abcdef-#456789 /tmp/image.png
#
# is derived from the variables above
# and executed by subprocess.call() or subprocess.Popen()
# from within Python
#
# Note that the command "convert" is from the ImageMagick suite
# It exists and is executable by the shell;
# the remaining values are arguments.
# The command has been confirmed to execute correctly.
---

Thanks in advance.

Chandra


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 07:44:32 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:44:32 +0100
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlbfjg$pcp$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar:
> 
> width = 5
> height = 30
> colors = ['#abcdef]', '#456789']
> filename = "/tmp/image.png"
> 
> # I want to get the equivalent of variable interpolation in Perl
> # so that the command
> #
> # convert -size 5x30 gradient:#abcdef-#456789 /tmp/image.png
> #
> # is derived from the variables above

Assuming that the extra right square bracket in 'colors' is a typo, here's one way:

     s = "convert -size {w}x{h} gradient:{g1}-{g2} {f}".format(
         w = width, h = height, g1 = colors[0], g2 = colors[1], f = filename
         )


Cheers & hth.,

- ALf


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Feb 15 08:02:42 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:02:42 +0100
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:

> I want to execute a command from within python using the subprocess
> module.
> 
> Coming from a Perl background, I thought I could use variable
> interpolation in strings, but found that this is neither supported nor
> the Python way. Accordingly, I am a little at sea about how to
> accomplish it.

import subprocess

def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
            filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
    lookup = locals()
    assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
    subprocess.call("""\
convert
-size
{width}x{height}
gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
{filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())

convert()

Peter


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 08:11:32 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:41:32 +0530
Subject: Printing with raw_input
In-Reply-To: <hlbda7$73r$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d78cb048-338d-4eef-a5be-d971e65f43cf@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlbda7$73r$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002150511r2686a97cudb886f9688b4737e@mail.gmail.com>

raw_input uses sys.stderr I guess ?

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Joan Miller wrote:
>
> >> > Does `raw_input` uses internally `sys.stdout.write`?
>
> > It was to display the output inside a GUI app. overriding
> > `sys.stdout`. And as `print` also uses internally `sys.stdout.write`
> > then can be used `print` the shell script and get the output too in
> > the GUI, cann't it?
>
> It should be easy to collect data written with print and show it in a gui,
> but I can't see how you would integrate raw_input() into a gui app.
>
> As to shell scripts, you can invoke them via subprocess, or, if the script
> needs user interaction, via pexpect.
>
> Peter
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From katrinewhiteson at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 08:56:37 2010
From: katrinewhiteson at gmail.com (katrine)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 05:56:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: trouble installing matplotlib - syslibroot: multiply specified
References: <13c961f8-ccbe-484d-b5ee-f620ef276f32@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlbahl$jga$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <cf715ac1-a580-4a88-90eb-5100a7c00988@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 12:20 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * katrine:
>
>
>
> > Hope you guys don't mind a question about building matplotlib from a
> > biologist who wants to learn how to use python.
>
> > I am trying to install matplotlib on my mac with OS X 10.4.11, using
> > python 2.6.4 and Xcode 2.2.1. I have had a few fights with freetype
> > and Tkinter, and I think I've got those worked out. I have configured
> > and installed numpy, freetype, zlib, and libpng. But I am still
> > getting an error about multiply specified syslibroot  - does this make
> > sense to anyone?
>
> Don't know if this will help, but I just googled "syslibroot", and it coughed up
> the following discussion:
>
>    <url:http://lists.apple.com/archives/unix-porting/2005/Oct/msg00003.html>
>
> Quoting from that thread: "Try not setting LDFLAGS.  Passing -isysroot to gcc
> might cause it to pass -isyslibroot to the linker if you're using gcc to link."
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf

thanks! I managed to install an egg with easy_install, seems to work,
FINALLY!

thanks for your help,
Katrine


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 09:03:40 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:03:40 +0100
Subject: Replace various regex
In-Reply-To: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B79543C.5070709@sequans.com>

Martin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)
>
> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> f = open(fname, 'r')
> s = f.read()
>
> if CANHT:
>     s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> where CANHT might be
>
> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'
>
> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Martin
>   

I remove all lines containing things like 9*0.0 in your file, cause I 
don't know what they mean and how to handle them. These are not numbers.

import re

replace = {
    'snow_grnd' : (1, '99.99,'), # replace the 1st number by 99.99
    't_soil' : (2, '88.8,'), # replace the 2nd number by 88.88
    }

testBuffer = """
 0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759  !  stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
0.46                         !  snow_grnd
276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48  !  t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 !  lai(1:npft)
"""

outputBuffer = ''
for line in testBuffer.split('\n'):
    for key, (index, repl) in replace.items():
        if key in line:
            parameters = {
                'n' : '[\d\.]+', # given you example you have to change 
this one, I don't know what means 9*0.0 in your file
                'index' : index - 1,
            }
            # the following pattern will silently match any digit before 
the <index>th digit is found, and use a capturing parenthesis for the last
            pattern = 
'(\s*(?:(?:%(n)s)[,\s]+){0,%(index)s})(?:(%(n)s)[,\s]+)(.*!.*)' % 
parameters # regexp are sometimes a nightmare to read
            line = re.sub(pattern, r'\1 '+repl+r'\3' , line)
            break
    outputBuffer += line +'\n'

print outputBuffer



From starglider.dev at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:10:53 2010
From: starglider.dev at gmail.com (starglider develop)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:10:53 +0000
Subject: Talking with ebay using Python
Message-ID: <a7268e571002150610g8b28821q34ca600c7222a960@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I need a way of talking with the eBay API:
Made search,
Ask for item status.

What can it be done, and where can I get the info.

Thank you in advance for your help.
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From acl at info.fundp.ac.be  Mon Feb 15 09:11:37 2010
From: acl at info.fundp.ac.be (Anthony Cleve)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:11:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CFP - SLE'2010
Message-ID: <5d5f260a-71e2-46a1-80ee-ba6a4405bc7e@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

CALL FOR PAPERS

3rd International Conference on Software Language Engineering

SLE 2010
12-13 Oct 2010 -- Eindhoven, The Netherlands

http://planet-sl.org/sle2010/

Co-located with the International Conference on Generative
Programming and Component Engineering (GPCE'10).
------------------------------------------------------------
DATES

Jun 28: Abstract submission (required)
Jul 05: Paper submission (midnight Apia Samoa time)
Aug 27: Author notification
Sep 17: Paper submission for online proceedings
Oct 12-13: SLE 2010
Dec 03: Camera-ready copy submission for post-proceedings
------------------------------------------------------------
Software language engineering is devoted to topics related
to artificial languages in software engineering. The foremost
mission of the International Conference on Software Language
Engineering (SLE) is to encourage and organize communication
between communities that traditionally have looked at soft-
ware languages from different, more specialized, and yet
complementary perspectives. Thus, technologies, methods,
experiments and case studies from modelware, grammarware,
and ontologyware serving the objectives of software languages
are of particular relevance to SLE.

We invite high-quality submissions to all conference tracks.
Submissions must be PDF files following the Springer LNCS
style and will be managed using the EasyChair submission system.
Please check the conference web site for further information.

New at SLE 2010 is a Doctoral Symposium that will provide
a supportive yet questioning setting in which PhD students
can present their work, including goals, methods, and
preliminary results. The Symposium aims to provide students
with useful guidance and feedback on various aspects of their
research from established researchers and the other student
attendees.

Please forward this call to anyone who might be interested.

http://planet-sl.org/sle2010/
------------------------------------------------------------
PAPER SUBMISSION

Submitted papers must be original work and must not be
previously published in, currently submitted to, or currently
in consideration for any journal, book, conference, or
workshop. Each submitted paper will be reviewed closely by
at least three members of the program committee. Accepted
papers will be distributed at the conference via the online
proceedings as well as published in the post-proceedings,
which will appear in the Springer Lecture Notes in Computer
Science (LNCS) series. Authors will have the opportunity
to revise their accepted paper(s) for the pre- and post-
proceedings. For an accepted paper to appear in the proceedings,
at least one author must attend the event and present the work.
------------------------------------------------------------
RESEARCH PAPERS

Research papers should report a substantial research contribution
to SLE and/or a successful application of SLE techniques.  We
solicit high-quality contributions in the area of SLE ranging
from theoretical and conceptual contributions to tools, techniques,
and frameworks that support the aforementioned lifecycle activities.
We list examples of tools, techniques, applications, and problems of
interest to clarify the types of contributes that we seek:

* Formalisms used in designing and specifying languages and
tools that analyze such language descriptions
* Language implementation techniques
* Program and model transformation tools
* Composition, integration, and mapping tools for managing
different aspects of software languages or different
manifestations of a given language
* Transformations and transformation languages between
languages and models
* Language evolution
* Approaches to elicitation, specification, or verification
of requirements for software languages
* Language development frameworks, methodologies, techniques,
best practices, and tools for the broader language lifecycle
covering phases such as analysis, testing , and documentation.
* Design challenges in SLE
* Applications of languages including innovative domain-specific
languages or "little" languages

The preceding list is not exclusive or exhaustive.  Visit
the conference web site for more information about the scope
and topics of interest of SLE, or contact the program co-chairs
with questions.

Page limit: 20
------------------------------------------------------------
SHORT PAPERS

Short paper may describe interesting or thought-provoking
concepts that are not yet fully developed or evaluated, make
an initial contribution to challenging research issues in SLE,
or discuss and analyze controversial issues in the field.

Page limit: 10
------------------------------------------------------------
TOOL DEMONSTRATION PAPERS

Because of SLE's ample interest in tools, we seek papers
that present software tools related to the field of SLE.
These papers will accompany a tool demonstration to be given
at the conference. The selection criteria include the
originality of the tool, its innovative aspects, the relevance
of the tool to SLE, and the maturity of the tool. Submissions
may also include an appendix (that will not be published)
containing additional screen-shots and discussion of
the proposed demonstration.

Page limit: 10
------------------------------------------------------------
MINI-TUTORIAL PAPERS

SLE is composed of various research areas, such as grammarware,
modelware, language schemas, and semantic technologies. The
cross product of attendees at SLE creates a situation where
the contribution from one session may be difficult to
understand by those not initiated to the area. To help unite
the various communities of SLE 2010, we solicit mini-tutorials
that provide discussion points for mapping common ideas between
related and complementary research topics of SLE.

A mini-tutorial submission should be between 15 and 20 pages.
------------------------------------------------------------
GENERAL CHAIR

    Mark van den Brand
    Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands
    m.g.j.v.d.brand at tue.nl

PROGRAM CO-CHAIRS

    Brian Malloy
    Clemson University, USA
    malloy at cs.clemson.edu

    Steffen Staab
    University of Koblenz-Landau, Germany
    staab at uni-koblenz.de

DOCTORAL SYMPOSIUM CHAIRS

    Eric van Wyk
    University of Minnesota, USA
    evw at cs.umn.edu

    Steffen Zschaler
    Lancaster University, UK
    szschaler at acm.org

ORGANIZATION COMMITTEE

    Anthony Cleve (Publicity Co-Chair)
    INRIA Lille, France

    Nicholas Kraft (Publicity Co-Chair)
    University of Alabama, USA

    Arjan van der Meer (Web Chair)
    Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

    Alexander Serebrenik (Finance Chair)
    Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

PROGRAM COMMITTEE

    Uwe Assmann, Dresden University of Technology, Germany
    Colin Atkinson, University of Mannheim , Germany
    Sonia Bergamaschi, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, Italy
    John Boyland, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA
    Jordi Cabot, University of Toronto, Canada
    Silvana Castano, University of Milan, Italy
    Anthony Cleve, INRIA Lille, France
    Michael Collard, University of Akron, USA
    Charles Consel, LaBRI / INRIA, France
    Stephen Edwards, Columbia University, USA
    Gregor Engels, University of Paderborn, Germany
    Aldo Gangemi, Semantic Technology Laboratory, Italy
    Chiara Ghidini, FBK-irst, Italy
    Jeff Gray, University of Alabama, USA
    Peter Haase, University of Karlsruhe, Germany
    Gorel Hedin, Lund University, Sweden
    Geert-Jan Houben, Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands
    Adrian Johnstone, University of London, UK
    Nicholas Kraft, University of Alabama, USA
    Ivan Kurtev, University of Twente, The Netherlands
    Julia Lawall, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
    Marjan Mernik, University of Maribor, Slovenia
    Pierre-Etienne Moreau, Ecole des Mines in Nancy, France
    Peter Mosses, Swansea  University, UK
    Ralf M??ller, Hamburg University of Technolog, Germany
    Istvan Nagy, ASML, The Netherlands
    Daniel Oberle, SAP Research, Germany
    Richard Paige, University of York, UK
    Jeff Z. Pan, University of Aberdeen, UK
    Bijan Parsia, University of Manchester, UK
    James Power, National University of Ireland, Ireland
    Alexander Serebrenik, Eindhoven University of Technology, The
Netherlands
    Fernando Silva Parreiras, University of Koblenz-Landau, Germany
    Anthony Sloane, Macquarie University, Australia
    Eleni Stroulia, University of Alberta, Canada
    York Sure, University of Koblenz-Landau, Germany
    Gabriele Taentzer, Technical University of Berlin, Germany
    Jurgen Vinju, CWI, The Netherlands
    Eelco Visser, Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands
    Steffen Zschaler, Lancaster University, UK


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:13:17 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:13:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2561.1266242637.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b1fed01-e0bf-4240-bdef-f817996a90d6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 2:03 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Martin wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> > a series of regex, which look something like this...
>
> > 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
> > 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)
>
> > Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> > would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> > numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> > any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> > The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> > f = open(fname, 'r')
> > s = f.read()
>
> > if CANHT:
> >     s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
> > canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> > where CANHT might be
>
> > CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'
>
> > But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Martin
>
> I remove all lines containing things like 9*0.0 in your file, cause I
> don't know what they mean and how to handle them. These are not numbers.
>
> import re
>
> replace = {
>     'snow_grnd' : (1, '99.99,'), # replace the 1st number by 99.99
>     't_soil' : (2, '88.8,'), # replace the 2nd number by 88.88
>     }
>
> testBuffer = """
>  0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759  !  stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
> 0.46                         !  snow_grnd
> 276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48  !  t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
> 200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 !  lai(1:npft)
> """
>
> outputBuffer = ''
> for line in testBuffer.split('\n'):
>     for key, (index, repl) in replace.items():
>         if key in line:
>             parameters = {
>                 'n' : '[\d\.]+', # given you example you have to change
> this one, I don't know what means 9*0.0 in your file
>                 'index' : index - 1,
>             }
>             # the following pattern will silently match any digit before
> the <index>th digit is found, and use a capturing parenthesis for the last
>             pattern =
> '(\s*(?:(?:%(n)s)[,\s]+){0,%(index)s})(?:(%(n)s)[,\s]+)(.*!.*)' %
> parameters # regexp are sometimes a nightmare to read
>             line = re.sub(pattern, r'\1 '+repl+r'\3' , line)
>             break
>     outputBuffer += line +'\n'
>
> print outputBuffer

Thanks I will take a look. I think perhaps I was having a very slow
day when I posted and realised I could solve the original problem more
efficiently and the problem wasn't perhaps as I first perceived. It is
enough to match the tag to the right of the "!" sign and use this to
adjust what lies on the left of the "!" sign. Currently I have
this...if anyone thinks there is a neater solution I am happy to hear
it. Many thanks.

variable_tag = 'lai'
variable = [200.0, 60.030, 0.060, 0.030, 0.030]

# generate adjustment string
variable = ",".join(["%s" % i for i in variable]) + ' !  ' +
variable_tag

# call func to adjust input file
adjustStandardPftParams(variable, variable_tag, in_param_fname,
out_param_fname)

and the inside of this func looks like this

def adjustStandardPftParams(self, variable, variable_tag, in_fname,
out_fname):

    f = open(in_fname, 'r')
    of = open(out_fname, 'w')
    pattern_found = False

    while True:
        line = f.readline()
        if not line:
            break
        pattern = re.findall(r"!\s+"+variable_tag, line)
        if pattern:
            print 'yes'
            print >> of, "%s" % variable
	    pattern_found = True

        if pattern_found:
            pattern_found = False
        else:
            of.write(line)

    f.close()
    of.close()

    return


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 09:27:40 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:27:40 +0100
Subject: Replace various regex
In-Reply-To: <7b1fed01-e0bf-4240-bdef-f817996a90d6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2561.1266242637.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7b1fed01-e0bf-4240-bdef-f817996a90d6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7959DC.2040202@sequans.com>

Martin wrote:
> On Feb 15, 2:03 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> Martin wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi,
>>>       
>>> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
>>> a series of regex, which look something like this...
>>>       
>>> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
>>> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0      !  lai(1:npft)
>>>       
>>> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
>>> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
>>> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
>>> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>>>       
>>> The file read in is an ascii file.
>>>       
>>> f = open(fname, 'r')
>>> s = f.read()
>>>       
>>> if CANHT:
>>>     s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+   !
>>> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>>>       
>>> where CANHT might be
>>>       
>>> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft'
>>>       
>>> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>>>       
>>> Thanks.
>>>       
>>> Martin
>>>       
>> I remove all lines containing things like 9*0.0 in your file, cause I
>> don't know what they mean and how to handle them. These are not numbers.
>>
>> import re
>>
>> replace = {
>>     'snow_grnd' : (1, '99.99,'), # replace the 1st number by 99.99
>>     't_soil' : (2, '88.8,'), # replace the 2nd number by 88.88
>>     }
>>
>> testBuffer = """
>>  0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759  !  stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
>> 0.46                         !  snow_grnd
>> 276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48  !  t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
>> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00   !  canht_ft(1:npft)
>> 200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 !  lai(1:npft)
>> """
>>
>> outputBuffer = ''
>> for line in testBuffer.split('\n'):
>>     for key, (index, repl) in replace.items():
>>         if key in line:
>>             parameters = {
>>                 'n' : '[\d\.]+', # given you example you have to change
>> this one, I don't know what means 9*0.0 in your file
>>                 'index' : index - 1,
>>             }
>>             # the following pattern will silently match any digit before
>> the <index>th digit is found, and use a capturing parenthesis for the last
>>             pattern =
>> '(\s*(?:(?:%(n)s)[,\s]+){0,%(index)s})(?:(%(n)s)[,\s]+)(.*!.*)' %
>> parameters # regexp are sometimes a nightmare to read
>>             line = re.sub(pattern, r'\1 '+repl+r'\3' , line)
>>             break
>>     outputBuffer += line +'\n'
>>
>> print outputBuffer
>>     
>
> Thanks I will take a look. I think perhaps I was having a very slow
> day when I posted and realised I could solve the original problem more
> efficiently and the problem wasn't perhaps as I first perceived. It is
> enough to match the tag to the right of the "!" sign and use this to
> adjust what lies on the left of the "!" sign. Currently I have
> this...if anyone thinks there is a neater solution I am happy to hear
> it. Many thanks.
>
> variable_tag = 'lai'
> variable = [200.0, 60.030, 0.060, 0.030, 0.030]
>
> # generate adjustment string
> variable = ",".join(["%s" % i for i in variable]) + ' !  ' +
> variable_tag
>
> # call func to adjust input file
> adjustStandardPftParams(variable, variable_tag, in_param_fname,
> out_param_fname)
>
> and the inside of this func looks like this
>
> def adjustStandardPftParams(self, variable, variable_tag, in_fname,
> out_fname):
>
>     f = open(in_fname, 'r')
>     of = open(out_fname, 'w')
>     pattern_found = False
>
>     while True:
>         line = f.readline()
>         if not line:
>             break
>         pattern = re.findall(r"!\s+"+variable_tag, line)
>         if pattern:
>             print 'yes'
>             print >> of, "%s" % variable
> 	    pattern_found = True
>
>         if pattern_found:
>             pattern_found = False
>         else:
>             of.write(line)
>
>     f.close()
>     of.close()
>
>     return
>   

Are you sure a simple
if variable_tag in line:
    # do some stuff

is not enough ?

People will usually prefer to write

for line in open(in_fname, 'r') :

instead of your ugly while loop ;-)


JM


From exallion.long at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:31:39 2010
From: exallion.long at gmail.com (Mug)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:31:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: constructor overwrite
Message-ID: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

hi ,i had a problem on constructor overwrite:
i have something like:

class obj:
def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
    if y is None:
          self.x=x
    else:
          self.y=y
so i can call :
objet = obj()  # x=100 y=None
or
objet = obj(40) # x= 40 y=None

but if i do :
objet = obj('not cool') #x='not cool' y=None
since x is not typed .

i am waiting for a result:
objet = obj('not cool') #x=100 y='not cool'
as they do in C++ or java.
is there a way to do it?
thanks


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 15 09:41:53 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:41:53 +0000
Subject: constructor overwrite
References: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2iq9yk1ce.fsf@googlemail.com>

Mug <exallion.long at gmail.com> writes:

> hi ,i had a problem on constructor overwrite:
> i have something like:
>
> class obj:
> def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
>     if y is None:
>           self.x=x
>     else:
>           self.y=y
> so i can call :
> objet = obj()  # x=100 y=None
> or
> objet = obj(40) # x= 40 y=None
>
> but if i do :
> objet = obj('not cool') #x='not cool' y=None
> since x is not typed .
>
> i am waiting for a result:
> objet = obj('not cool') #x=100 y='not cool'
> as they do in C++ or java.
> is there a way to do it?
> thanks

Your problem doesn't seem very well defined (e.g. do you ever call obj
with two arguments?), but as I understand it you can do this:

  def __init__(self, x=100):
      if isinstance(x, int):
         self.x, self.y = x, None
      else:
         self.x, self.y = None, x

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 09:58:19 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:58:19 -0500
Subject: constructor overwrite
In-Reply-To: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlbnfl$r13$1@ger.gmane.org>

Mug wrote:
> hi ,i had a problem on constructor overwrite:
> i have something like:
> 
> class obj:
> def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
>     if y is None:
>           self.x=x
>     else:
>           self.y=y
> so i can call :
> objet = obj()  # x=100 y=None
> or
> objet = obj(40) # x= 40 y=None
> 
> but if i do :
> objet = obj('not cool') #x='not cool' y=None
> since x is not typed .
> 
> i am waiting for a result:
> objet = obj('not cool') #x=100 y='not cool'
> as they do in C++ or java.
> is there a way to do it?
> thanks

You could check the type(s) of the argument(s) in your code, if you
want, but Python does not support signature analysis, dynamic method
dispatch or static typing. You can do

object = obj("y='not cool')

but I doubt this is what you want. Your post raises a couple of thier
points.

First, __init__ is *not* the constructor. By the time it is called
creation of the new object is already complete, and __init__() (as its
name suggests) merely initializes it. In Python 2's "new-style" classes,
and in Python 3, construction is performed by the class's __new__() method.

Secondly, it seems a little strange that you are happy to create
different instances, in some of which self.y is not initialized and in
others self.x is not initialized. You may have a good reason for doing
this, I merely point it out as a potential cause of AttributeError
exceptions.

regards
 Steve

regards
 Steve

-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Feb 15 10:05:04 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:05:04 +0100
Subject: constructor overwrite
In-Reply-To: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <e20471ff-a72f-49eb-99c4-8085ba6468f3@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b79629f$0$685$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Mug a ?crit :
> hi ,i had a problem on constructor overwrite:
> i have something like:
> 
> class obj:
> def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
>     if y is None:
>           self.x=x
>     else:
>           self.y=y

With such an initializer, you'll have instances with an attribute 'y' 
and no attribute 'x', and instances with an attribute 'x' and no 
attribute 'y' :

 >>> class Obj(object):
...     def __init__(self, x=100, y=None):
...         if y is None: self.x = x
...         else: self.y = y
...
 >>> objx = Obj()
 >>> objx.x
100
 >>> objx.y
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'Obj' object has no attribute 'y'
 >>> objy = Obj(y='foo')
 >>> objy.x
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<console>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: 'Obj' object has no attribute 'x'
 >>> objy.y
'foo'
 >>>


Are you *sure* this is what you want ?

> so i can call :
> objet = obj()  # x=100 y=None
> or
> objet = obj(40) # x= 40 y=None
> 
> but if i do :
> objet = obj('not cool') #x='not cool' y=None

What else would you expect ???

> since x is not typed .

'x' is a name, and names are indeed "untyped". Now the object bound to 
name 'x' is actually typed.

> i am waiting for a result:
> objet = obj('not cool') #x=100 y='not cool'
> as they do in C++ or java.

Python is neither C++ nor Java (nor Pascal nor Lisp nor 
<yourfavoritelanguagehere> FWIW), so trying to forcefit C++/Java idioms 
will at best lead you to pain and frustation. Just like trying to 
forcefit Python idioms in C++ or Java (or Pascal or Lisp etc....).

> is there a way to do it?

objet = obj(y='not cool')

Now if you could explain the problem you're trying to solve instead of 
the solution you thought would solve it, we might eventually provide 
more help.


From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:29:05 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:29:05 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
Message-ID: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hi,

i wanted to ask how you guys structure your code.
I mainly have scripts that automate small tasks.
These scripts use a common set of utility code.
My code is structured like this, for example:

script_1.py
script_2.py
script_3.py
tools\
|----->__init__.py
|----->logutils.py
|----->mailutils.py

I was thinking of putting code in seperate directories because the number
of scripts grows fast and i want to keep it clean.
Something like this:

script_1.py
tools\
|----->__init__.py
|----->logutils.py
|----->mailutils.py
database\
|----->__init__.py
|----->script_2.py
|----->script_3.py

However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a script in there,
how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within the database subdirectory?
This fails:
    from tools.logutils import logger

 Thanks,
 Benedict



From python at bdurham.com  Mon Feb 15 10:43:22 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:43:22 -0500
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
Message-ID: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python
2.6.4?

Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular
expressions as validation criteria. If a user enters a
pathological regular expression, we would like to timeout the
evaluation of this expression after a short period of time.

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From chyavana at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 10:48:02 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:48:02 +0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4B796CB2.2000302@gmail.com>

Peter Otten wrote:

> import subprocess
> 
> def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
>             filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
>     lookup = locals()
>     assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
>     subprocess.call("""\
> convert
> -size
> {width}x{height}
> gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
> {filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())
> 
> convert()
> 
> Peter

Thank you. It works. Now I need to understand why and am able to follow 
what you are doing part of the way:

1. Assign default values in the function definition.

2. Store the variables existing in the local namespace in the list lookup.

3. Assert that there are no newlines in the values in lookup converted 
to strings. (Why? Is this because of splitlines() later on?)

4. Assemble a string (array?) for the subprocess.call argument using the 
  format string syntax (section 8.1.3 et seq. of the Python 
documentation for 2.6.4). Your example works with  default option of 
shell=False for subprocess.call().

5. I am unable to decipher how you got to format(**lookup).splitlines())
especially the **prefix part, although I guess that splitlines() is 
dishing out the arguments one by one from each line in the 
subprocess.call argument.

Any correction of (1) to (4) and an explanation of (5) would be most 
appreciated.

All in all, your code is a magnificent example of wrapping the function 
within python. This is the first time I have seen something like this.

Thank you very much.

Chandra


From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Feb 15 10:59:05 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:59:05 -0500
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B796F49.9020102@optimum.net>

On 2/15/2010 7:35 AM, R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> I want to execute a command from within python using the subprocess module.
>
> Coming from a Perl background, I thought I could use variable
> interpolation in strings, but found that this is neither supported

Yes, it is: see the use of string.Template below.

> ... nor
> the Python way.

That right -- it isn't the Python way. Python offers two basic 
alternatives. Alf already presented the use of the "new" format() method 
of string objects. I think "traditional" Python string formatting might 
be what you want in this case:

   colors = ['#abcdef', '#456789']
   format_string = "convert -size 5x30 gradient:%s-%s /tmp/image.png"
   cmd_string = format_string % tuple(colors)

... or better, by making *colors* a tuple instead of a list ...

   colors = ('#abcdef', '#456789')
   format_string = "convert -size 5x30 gradient:%s-%s /tmp/image.png"
   cmd_string = format_string % colors

As Peter demonstrated, you need to use split() on *cmd_string* when you 
send the command to subprocess.call().

Now if you *really* miss using Perl, try this:

   c1, c2 = ('#abcdef', '#456789')
   template = string.Template(
               "convert -size 5x30 gradient:$c1-$c2 /tmp/image.png")
   cmd_string = template.substitute(locals())

Not worth the trouble, IMHO.

Refs:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/typesseq-strings.html
http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/node40.html

HTH,
John


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 10:59:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:59:22 -0500
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
In-Reply-To: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B796F5A.40405@holdenweb.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
>  
> Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular expressions
> as validation criteria. If a user enters a pathological regular
> expression, we would like to timeout the evaluation of this expression
> after a short period of time.
>  
Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an operation
if it takes too much time.

One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.

This group being what it is you are likely to receive other, better
suggestions too.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 10:59:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:59:22 -0500
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
In-Reply-To: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B796F5A.40405@holdenweb.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
>  
> Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular expressions
> as validation criteria. If a user enters a pathological regular
> expression, we would like to timeout the evaluation of this expression
> after a short period of time.
>  
Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an operation
if it takes too much time.

One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.

This group being what it is you are likely to receive other, better
suggestions too.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From pxrepreza at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:06:00 2010
From: pxrepreza at gmail.com (Paulo Repreza)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:06:00 -0500
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
Message-ID: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish, I don't
know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going to help me.

The script:

# Import modules random for function randint

import random

# Generating a constant.

var = 65

# Generating a random number.
ranum = random.randint(1,100)

#Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
while var != ranum:
    if var == ranum:
        print var, 'equals to:', ranum
    else:
        print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum

########## End of Script ###########


What I'm trying to do is to print the new value that ranum generates if the
condition is not met. So far if you run the script it prints the same value
over and over again, making in an infinite loop. What can I do in order to
print out the new value generated every time the condition is not met?

Thanks!

Paulo Repreza
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 11:06:49 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:06:49 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>

Benedict Verheyen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i wanted to ask how you guys structure your code.
> I mainly have scripts that automate small tasks.
> These scripts use a common set of utility code.
> My code is structured like this, for example:
>
> script_1.py
> script_2.py
> script_3.py
> tools\
> |----->__init__.py
> |----->logutils.py
> |----->mailutils.py
>
> I was thinking of putting code in seperate directories because the number
> of scripts grows fast and i want to keep it clean.
> Something like this:
>
> script_1.py
> tools\
> |----->__init__.py
> |----->logutils.py
> |----->mailutils.py
> database\
> |----->__init__.py
> |----->script_2.py
> |----->script_3.py
>
> However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a script in there,
> how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within the database subdirectory?
> This fails:
>     from tools.logutils import logger
>
>  Thanks,
>  Benedict
>
>   
Hi,

1/ Provide the output of the error so we can provide some useful help.
2/ Embed your structure into a package. Names like 'tools', 'lib', 
'mail', 'log' are too generic and will clash with other badly designed 
module/package names. Choose a name for you package, and use it with 
absolute imports e.g :
from myBeautifulPackage.tools.logutil import logger
3/ make sure your working copy of myBeautifulPackage is in your PYTHONPATH.

JM







From chyavana at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:11:36 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:11:36 +0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4B797238.2090007@gmail.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> import subprocess
> 
> def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
>             filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
>     lookup = locals()
>     assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
>     subprocess.call("""\
> convert
> -size
> {width}x{height}
> gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
> {filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())
> 
> convert()
> 
> Peter

One other question I forgot to ask is this why is there a terminal 
backslash in

> subprocess.call("""\

Removing the backslash makes the function fail.

I wonder why, because """ is supposed to allow multi-line strings. I am 
sorry if this sounds obtuse but that backslash baffles me.


From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:15:21 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:15:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
Message-ID: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Hello!

I am newbie mastering test driven development. I can't clarify myself
which mock library to use.
There are number of them and which one do you prefer?

Two libraries that attracted my attention are:
* minimock
* dingus
As for me the latest one, dingus, is the easiest (see this screencast:
http://vimeo.com/3949077   ), but it has very few downloads from pypi,
so it scares me a little.
Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
understand fully how minimock works.

What are your suggestions?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 11:17:39 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:17:39 +0100
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
In-Reply-To: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7973A3.3040407@sequans.com>

Paulo Repreza wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish, I 
> don't know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going to 
> help me.
>
> The script:
>
> # Import modules random for function randint
>
> import random
>
> # Generating a constant.
>
> var = 65
>
> # Generating a random number.
> ranum = random.randint(1,100)
>
> #Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
> while var != ranum:
>     if var == ranum:
>         print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>     else:
>         print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
>
> ########## End of Script ###########
>
>
> What I'm trying to do is to print the new value that ranum generates 
> if the condition is not met. So far if you run the script it prints 
> the same value over and over again, making in an infinite loop. What 
> can I do in order to print out the new value generated every time the 
> condition is not met?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Paulo Repreza   
in your script you generate the random number only once, no wonder it 
keep being the same value over & over.

# Initialize ranum with a random number
ranum = random.randint(1,100)

#Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
while var != ranum:
    if var == ranum:
        print var, 'equals to:', ranum
    else:
        print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
    ranum = random.randint(1,100) # generate a new number, that's the 
missing line in your script

JM



From mmm286 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:18:50 2010
From: mmm286 at gmail.com (mierdatutis mi)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:18:50 +0100
Subject: get a field
Message-ID: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have this:

pe="
http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml
"


I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml

But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.

Could you help me how could I do extract this in python?

Many thanks and sorry for my English!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20100215/093448dd/attachment-0001.html>

From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:27:41 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:27:41 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>
References: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hlbsls$ev5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
<snip>

> Hi,
> 
> 1/ Provide the output of the error so we can provide some useful help.
> 2/ Embed your structure into a package. Names like 'tools', 'lib',
> 'mail', 'log' are too generic and will clash with other badly designed
> module/package names. Choose a name for you package, and use it with
> absolute imports e.g :
> from myBeautifulPackage.tools.logutil import logger
> 3/ make sure your working copy of myBeautifulPackage is in your PYTHONPATH.
> 
> JM

Hi,

the error i get is this:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "update_tax_responsible.py", line 18, in <module>
    from tools.logutils import logger
ImportError: No module named tools.logutils

As to your comments on putting everything in a package, that's the whole problem,
it are all scripts where only a few of them are related and they all use
one or more modules that are located in the tools directory.
In that tools subdirectory i have a py file for typical file functions, time functions,
and so on. For instance, the tools\fileutils.py file contains amongst others
a function that calculates the size of a directory.

If i understood correctly, your suggestion is to put the utility files in
the tools subdirectory in a seperate package and put that package on the python path
so it can be shared by all scripts.
I should then further structure the scripts by putting scripts together.

But since the functions in tools are really utility functions for common tasks,
what would a meaningfule package name be?
The scripts are really diverse for instance, one of the scripts will
check the names of subdirectories made by employees, another will send mail
if people forget to fill in certain fields in a database and so on.

That's one of the reasons why i'm having a hard time structering it.


Regards,
Benedict



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Feb 15 11:30:29 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:30:29 +0100
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2571.1266250669.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2571.1266250669.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7976a3$0$24284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
> Paulo Repreza wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish, I 
>> don't know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going to 
>> help me.

(snip - problem already addressed by Jean-Michel...)

>> while var != ranum:
>>     if var == ranum:

Note that this branch will never be executed - the condition in the 
while statement make sure var != ranum in the while block.

>>         print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>>     else:
>>         print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
>>


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:30:59 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:30:59 -0500
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>
References: <hlbp80$1om$1@ger.gmane.org> <4B797119.6040802@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <13868D3D-76E6-4F97-8743-FC5479DFB74E@gmail.com>


On Feb 15, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> 3/ make sure your working copy of myBeautifulPackage is in your PYTHONPATH.

Or, make a simple setup.py which imports distribute or setuptools and use:

	# python setup.py develop

which will put your code into the PYTHONPATH by virtue of a link inside your site-packages.

First one I found googling for "setup.py develop" : https://www.siafoo.net/article/77

There's a typo in the code of section 1.2 (parenthesis at the end of import, wrong), but the basic idea is there.

S



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 11:31:58 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:31:58 -0500
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <4B797238.2090007@gmail.com>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<4B797238.2090007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlbstu$f9g$1@ger.gmane.org>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
>> import subprocess
>>
>> def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
>>             filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
>>     lookup = locals()
>>     assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
>>     subprocess.call("""\
>> convert
>> -size
>> {width}x{height}
>> gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
>> {filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())
>>
>> convert()
>>
>> Peter
> 
> One other question I forgot to ask is this why is there a terminal
> backslash in
> 
>> subprocess.call("""\
> 
> Removing the backslash makes the function fail.
> 
> I wonder why, because """ is supposed to allow multi-line strings. I am
> sorry if this sounds obtuse but that backslash baffles me.

It does, but a leading newline would cause the splitlines() result to
start with an empty word - the backslash just causes the interpreter to
ignore the newline immediately following, rather than including it in
the string literal's value.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 11:35:16 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:35:16 -0500
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
In-Reply-To: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlbt44$f9g$2@ger.gmane.org>

Paulo Repreza wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish, I
> don't know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going to
> help me.
> 
> The script:
> 
> # Import modules random for function randint
> 
> import random
> 
> # Generating a constant.
> 
> var = 65
> 
> # Generating a random number.
> ranum = random.randint(1,100)
> 
> #Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
> while var != ranum:
>     if var == ranum:

The "if" condition can never be true, since if it were then the loop
would have just terminated before starting this iteration!

>         print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>     else:
>         print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
> 
Shouldn't there be something here to set ranum to a new value? Otherwise
the same value will be there the next time around ...

> ########## End of Script ###########
> 
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to print the new value that ranum generates if
> the condition is not met. So far if you run the script it prints the
> same value over and over again, making in an infinite loop. What can I
> do in order to print out the new value generated every time the
> condition is not met?
> 
> Thanks!

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/
d



From chyavana at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:36:44 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:36:44 +0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
In-Reply-To: <hlbfjg$pcp$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbfjg$pcp$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B79781C.50205@gmail.com>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar:
>>
>> width = 5
>> height = 30
>> colors = ['#abcdef]', '#456789']
>> filename = "/tmp/image.png"
>>
>> # I want to get the equivalent of variable interpolation in Perl
>> # so that the command
>> #
>> # convert -size 5x30 gradient:#abcdef-#456789 /tmp/image.png
>> #
>> # is derived from the variables above
> 
> Assuming that the extra right square bracket in 'colors' is a typo, 
> here's one way:
> 
>     s = "convert -size {w}x{h} gradient:{g1}-{g2} {f}".format(
>         w = width, h = height, g1 = colors[0], g2 = colors[1], f = filename
>         )
> 
> 
> Cheers & hth.,
> 
> - ALf

Thanks, Alf. It works if I use it so:

subprocess.call(s, shell=True)

and I think that is because s is a single string assembled in almost the 
variable interpolation fashion of Perl. It does not work with the 
default shell=False argument, presumably because the arguments are not 
split into separate strings (something that was horrible to do by hand 
using the %s and %() syntax that I had tried out previously).

I think that you and Peter have, between you, shown me two ways of using 
subprocess.call(): one with shell=True and the other with shell = False.

Thanks.

Chandra


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:39:36 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:39:36 +0000
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2571.1266250669.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2eikmjvw7.fsf@googlemail.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> writes:

> Paulo Repreza wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I'm having problems with a little script that I'm trying to finish,
>> I don't know if I'm in the right track but I know somebody is going
>> to help me.
>>
>> The script:
>>
>> # Import modules random for function randint
>>
>> import random
>>
>> # Generating a constant.
>>
>> var = 65
>>
>> # Generating a random number.
>> ranum = random.randint(1,100)
>>
>> #Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
>> while var != ranum:
>>     if var == ranum:
>>         print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>>     else:
>>         print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
>>
>> ########## End of Script ###########
>>
>>
>> What I'm trying to do is to print the new value that ranum generates
>> if the condition is not met. So far if you run the script it prints
>> the same value over and over again, making in an infinite loop. What
>> can I do in order to print out the new value generated every time
>> the condition is not met?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Paulo Repreza   
> in your script you generate the random number only once, no wonder it
> keep being the same value over & over.
>
> # Initialize ranum with a random number
> ranum = random.randint(1,100)
>
> #Creating while loop. Stops until var == ranum
> while var != ranum:
>    if var == ranum:
>        print var, 'equals to:', ranum
>    else:
>        print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum
>    ranum = random.randint(1,100) # generate a new number, that's the
> missing line in your script
>
> JM

And a more idiomatic way of writing this in Python would be, I guess:

import random

var = 65
while True:
    ranum = random.randint(1, 100)
    if var == ranum:
        print var, 'equals to:', ranum
        break
    else:
        print var, 'does not equal to:', ranum

(following up from a FU as I can't see the OP)

-- 
Arnaud


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Feb 15 11:44:25 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:44:25 +0100
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com> <4B796CB2.2000302@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlbtk7$3h9$00$1@news.t-online.com>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:

> Peter Otten wrote:
> 
>> import subprocess
>> 
>> def convert(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
>>             filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
>>     lookup = locals()
>>     assert all("\n" not in str(s) for s in lookup.values())
>>     subprocess.call("""\
>> convert
>> -size
>> {width}x{height}
>> gradient:{colors[0]}-{colors[1]}
>> {filename}""".format(**lookup).splitlines())
>> 
>> convert()
>> 
>> Peter
> 
> Thank you. It works. Now I need to understand why and am able to follow
> what you are doing part of the way:
> 
> 1. Assign default values in the function definition.
> 
> 2. Store the variables existing in the local namespace in the list lookup.
> 
> 3. Assert that there are no newlines in the values in lookup converted
> to strings. (Why? Is this because of splitlines() later on?)

Yes. 

> 4. Assemble a string (array?) for the subprocess.call argument using the
>   format string syntax (section 8.1.3 et seq. of the Python
> documentation for 2.6.4). Your example works with  default option of
> shell=False for subprocess.call().

I wanted to pass the executable and its arguments as a list (a python "list" 
is called array in other languages) to avoid bothering with shell escapes. 
 
> 5. I am unable to decipher how you got to format(**lookup).splitlines())
> especially the **prefix part, although I guess that splitlines() is
> dishing out the arguments one by one from each line in the
> subprocess.call argument.

Given some_dict = {key1: value1, key2: value2,...}

f(**some_dict) 

is a shortcut for

f(key1=value1, key2=value2, ...)

with the additional twist that you do not have to know the key/value pairs 
in advance.

I introduced splitlines to avoid calling the format method on every argument 
to "convert", i. e.

def convert2(width=5, height=30, colors=['#abcdef', '#456789'],
            filename="tmp/image with space in its name.png"):
    subprocess.call([
            "convert",
            "-size",
            "{width}x{height}".format(width=width, height=height),
            "gradient:{0}-{1}".format(*colors),
            filename])

I supected that it would look cleaner than the above, but now that I tried 
it I think convert2() is the better alternative.

Peter


From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb 15 11:50:13 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:50:13 +0000
Subject: Fighting with subprocess.Popen
References: <6ac1a5aa1002141223h54b6aca6k3f2a57a85fc1bad5@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2546.1266180225.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.15.16.50.13.188000@nowhere.com>

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:43:22 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:

>> Below is a test case that demonstrates this. Tests 1 & 2 concatenate the
>> command and the argument, Tests 3 & 4 mimic the python docs and use the form
>> Popen(["mycmd", "myarg"], ...), which never seems to work.
> 
> It doesn't work with shell=True because the shell is not able to
> interpret the list form. It's recommended that you don't use shell=True
> unless you need a shell.

A more general rule is to use shell=True on Windows and shell=False on
Unix (including MacOSX).

On Windows, whether the command is a list or a string is entirely
orthogonal to whether a shell is used. The underlying execution function
(CreateProcess) always uses a string, so a list is always converted to a
string, and the conversion is independent of the shell= setting.

The difference between shell=False and shell=True is that the former
passes the string directly to CreateProcess while the latter passes
"cmd.exe /c "+string (cmd.exe is actually the value of %comspec% if it
is set).

The reason for using shell=True on Windows is that it allows the program
to be a batch file (or other script), while shell=False only works if the
program is a binary executable (.exe, .com).

On Unix, passing the arguments as a list in conjunction with shell=True
rarely makes sense. It results in the execution of

	["/bin/sh", "-c"] + args

i.e. args[0] is the argument to "-c" while the remaining arguments are
assigned to the shell variables $1, $2, etc. If you're using the
shell, you usually you want to pass the entire command as a string,
resulting in the execution of

	["/bin/sh", "-c", command]



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Feb 15 11:50:41 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:50:41 +0100
Subject: get a field
In-Reply-To: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B797B61.7090804@sequans.com>

mierdatutis mi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have this:
>
> pe="http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml"
>
>
> I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml
>
> But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.
>
> Could you help me how could I do extract this in python?
>
> Many thanks and sorry for my English!
>
In [2]: import os

In [3]: os.path.basename(pe)
Out[3]: '691046.shtml'

JM


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 11:54:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:54:22 -0500
Subject: get a field
In-Reply-To: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlbu7u$k29$1@ger.gmane.org>

mierdatutis mi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have this:
> 
> pe="http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml"
> 
> 
> I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml
> 
> But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.
> 
> Could you help me how could I do extract this in python?
> 
> Many thanks and sorry for my English!
> 

>>> s = "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml"
>>> s.rfind("/")         # finds rightmost "/"
26
>>> s[s.rfind("/")+1:]   # substring starting after "/"
'file.shtml'
>>>

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Feb 15 11:56:51 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:56:51 +0000
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<hlbgki$dhk$02$1@news.t-online.com> <4B797238.2090007@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.15.16.56.50.875000@nowhere.com>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:11:36 +0800, R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:

> One other question I forgot to ask is this why is there a terminal 
> backslash in
> 
>> subprocess.call("""\
> 
> Removing the backslash makes the function fail.
> 
> I wonder why, because """ is supposed to allow multi-line strings. I am 
> sorry if this sounds obtuse but that backslash baffles me.

The backslash causes the following newline to be skipped, so the "c" at
the beginning of "convert" is the first character in the string. Without
it, the newline would be the first character, and the .splitlines() would
result in an empty string as the first element in the list.

Example:

> """
= hello
= world
= """.splitlines()
['', 'hello', 'world']
> """\
= hello
= world
= """.splitlines()
['hello', 'world']




From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 11:57:37 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:57:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Lacrima wrote:

> I am newbie mastering test driven development. I can't clarify myself
> which mock library to use.
> There are number of them and which one do you prefer?
>
> Two libraries that attracted my attention are:
> * minimock
> * dingus
> As for me the latest one, dingus, is the easiest (see this screencast:http://vimeo.com/3949077? ), but it has very few downloads from pypi,
> so it scares me a little.
> Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
> it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
> the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
> understand fully how minimock works.
>
> What are your suggestions?

I have used http://pypi.python.org/pypi/mock/0.6.0 . It mocks, and it
has a mode that works one method at a time, and another mode that
mocks a method before its owning object gets constructed.

However, TDD is not about mocking, and on greenfield code you should
only mock to recover from some external problem, such as:

     - a random number generator
     - the system clock
     - anything over "the wire" - over a TCP/IP socket
     - hardware, such as your graphics or sound

Never mock to avoid hitting the database. Some TDD verbiage advises
"never hit the database". That is a mind-game to force you to decouple
your code. Your objects should always have the option (via
"construction encapsulation") to run as stubs, with some of their
behaviors turned off. And if you TDD low-level code that hits a
database, a mock would only tell the test what it wants to hear. And
if you TDD high-level code that manages business rules, database
records make perfectly good behavioral "fixtures" to support those
rules.

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 12:02:38 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:02:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8bd0f4a-7187-4d0c-ab27-914b6e19b71c@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 8:15?am, Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I am newbie mastering test driven development. I can't clarify myself
> which mock library to use.
> There are number of them and which one do you prefer?
>
> Two libraries that attracted my attention are:
> * minimock
> * dingus
> As for me the latest one, dingus, is the easiest (see this screencast:http://vimeo.com/3949077? ), but it has very few downloads from pypi,
> so it scares me a little.

I've used dingus with success.  I wouldn't let the lack of downloads
be a concern; the funny name is probably scaring some people away, and
of course there are other alternatives too.



From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 12:08:30 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 09:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<892f7664-14e9-4ce4-ab50-499fc8552ec3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<0eac0e90-fd39-4851-b979-c109218fb0ba@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <276960d6-97d7-4f46-827e-b14345d8ea2d@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 1:07?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 14, 11:52?am, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 14, 4:53?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Hello everyone. I am new to python and previously i did programming in
> > > c/c++.Could some one please help me to improve the run time for this
> > > python program as i don't have idea how to optimized this code.This
> > > code also seems to be more unpythonic so how to make it look like more
> > > pythonic . I am trying for this problem(https://www.spoj.pl/problems/
> > > FACT1/).
> > > Thank you
>
> > One other thing: ?in the 'brent' function, you're setting m to
> > randrange(1, n). ?What's the purpose of this? ?It looks to me as
> > though m controls the number of Pollard-Rho iterations that are
> > clumped together at one time (before doing a gcd operation), and using
> > a random number for this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
>
> The randomness also makes the algorithm a little buggy.
>
> I tried this input:
>
> 37^5 41^5
>
> Usually I get the right answer. ?Other times I get this:
>
> 37^5 41^3 1681^1
>
> And occasionally it appears to get into an infinite loop, which
> definitely could be a cause of "slowness." :)

Thank you all for help. I will try to improve these short comings.


From pxrepreza at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 12:27:29 2010
From: pxrepreza at gmail.com (Paulo Repreza)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:27:29 -0500
Subject: Loop problem while generating a new value with random.randint()
In-Reply-To: <hlbt44$f9g$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <d61936e01002150806i53291ae9l94cb845e81782595@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlbt44$f9g$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <d61936e01002150927h4650a70dxf272dede9d2a173b@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the help!
Using while True helps alot!


Paulo Repreza
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From fersed at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 12:55:08 2010
From: fersed at gmail.com (fernando sedano)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:55:08 +0100
Subject: saving a TIFF
Message-ID: <f8f1c7101002150955n558f14bdkfcd6473694def592@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to save an image created from two arrays (I'm using numpy and
PIL):


n=(b4a-b3a)/(b4a+b3a);
ndvi = Image.fromarray(n)
ndvi.save("F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3\ndvi_test","TIFF")

...........but I get the following error message:

IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
'F:\\Fire_scar_mapping\\ILS3\ndt'

Could anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong?
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Feb 15 13:06:51 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:51 -0500
Subject: saving a TIFF
In-Reply-To: <f8f1c7101002150955n558f14bdkfcd6473694def592@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f8f1c7101002150955n558f14bdkfcd6473694def592@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002151006w7e64bd01ga41fe604416c3e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:55 PM, fernando sedano <fersed at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to save an image created from two arrays (I'm using numpy and
> PIL):
>
>
> n=(b4a-b3a)/(b4a+b3a);
> ndvi = Image.fromarray(n)
> ndvi.save("F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3\ndvi_test","TIFF")
>
> ...........but I get the following error message:
>
> IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
> 'F:\\Fire_scar_mapping\\ILS3\ndt'
>
> Could anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong?
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
----------
>>> print "F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3\ndvi_test","TIFF"
F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3
dvi_test TIFF
--------------
Notice anything wrong with that? Unlike the Windows command line,
Python neither knows nor cares that the string you're entering is a
file name. It sees the \n and converts it to a newline. Either double
up your backslashes ( "F:\\Fire_scar_mapping\\ILS3\\ndvi_test"), use a
raw string (r"F:\Fire_scar_mapping\ILS3\ndvi_test") or use forward
slashes ("F:/Fire_scar_mapping/ILS3/ndvi_test")


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Feb 15 13:28:25 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:28:25 -0600
Subject: get a field
In-Reply-To: <hlbu7u$k29$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlbu7u$k29$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B799249.2020205@tim.thechases.com>

  Holden wrote:
> mierdatutis mi wrote:
>> I have this:
>>
>> pe="http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml"
>>
>> I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml
>>
>> But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.
> 
>>>> s = "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml"
>>>> s.rfind("/")         # finds rightmost "/"
> 26
>>>> s[s.rfind("/")+1:]   # substring starting after "/"
> 'file.shtml'

If I didn't use os.path.basename(s) then I'd write this as 
"s.rsplit('/', 1)[-1]"

   >>> "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
   'file.shtml'
   >>> "".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
   ''
   >>> "file.html".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
   'file.html'

I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but I always 
appreciate seeing how various people solve the same problem.  I 
tend to lean away from the find()/index() methods on strings 
because I have to stop and think which one raises the exception 
and which one returns -1 (and that it's -1 instead of 0) usually 
dropping to a python shell and doing

   >>> help("".find)
   >>> help("".index)

to refresh my memory.

FWIW, Steve's solution and the os.path.basename() both produce 
the same results with all 3 input values, so it's more a matter 
of personal style preference.  The basename() version has 
slightly different results if you have Windows paths with 
backslashes:

   s = r'c:\path\to\file.txt'

but since you (OP) know that they should be URLs with 
forward-slashes, it should be a non-issue.

-tkc





From leo at lspace.org  Mon Feb 15 13:29:38 2010
From: leo at lspace.org (Leo Breebaart)
Date: 15 Feb 2010 18:29:38 GMT
Subject: Using class attributes
Message-ID: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>


I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
(upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.

I can derive the template filename string for each instance by
doing something like this in the base class (and then not
forgetting to call super() in the __init__() of each derived
class):

  class Foo(object):

      def __init__(self):
          self.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % self.__class__.__name__
          self.template_body = read_body_from(self.template_filename)

But, since this information is the same for every instance of
each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)

I can of course always just hardcode the template filenames in
each derived class, but I am just curious if it can be automated
through some form of introspection.
-- 
Leo Breebaart  <leo at lspace.org>


From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:33:33 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:33:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 6:57 pm, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lacrima wrote:
> > I am newbie mastering test driven development. I can't clarify myself
> > which mock library to use.
> > There are number of them and which one do you prefer?
>
> > Two libraries that attracted my attention are:
> > * minimock
> > * dingus
> > As for me the latest one, dingus, is the easiest (see this screencast:http://vimeo.com/3949077 ), but it has very few downloads from pypi,
> > so it scares me a little.
> > Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
> > it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
> > the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
> > understand fully how minimock works.
>
> > What are your suggestions?
>
> I have usedhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/mock/0.6.0. It mocks, and it
> has a mode that works one method at a time, and another mode that
> mocks a method before its owning object gets constructed.
>
> However, TDD is not about mocking, and on greenfield code you should
> only mock to recover from some external problem, such as:
>
>      - a random number generator
>      - the system clock
>      - anything over "the wire" - over a TCP/IP socket
>      - hardware, such as your graphics or sound
>
> Never mock to avoid hitting the database. Some TDD verbiage advises
> "never hit the database". That is a mind-game to force you to decouple
> your code. Your objects should always have the option (via
> "construction encapsulation") to run as stubs, with some of their
> behaviors turned off. And if you TDD low-level code that hits a
> database, a mock would only tell the test what it wants to hear. And
> if you TDD high-level code that manages business rules, database
> records make perfectly good behavioral "fixtures" to support those
> rules.
>
> --
>   Phlip
>  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand

Hi, Phlip!

Thanks for your reply! Isn't what you are talking about integration
tests? And unit tests should be fully isolated? So even for method
'some_method()' of class A I should mock instance of class A (i.e. to
mock 'self') to test 'some_method()'.

Please, could you explain in more detail your thoughts:
> Your objects should always have the option (via
> "construction encapsulation") to run as stubs, with some of their
> behaviors turned off. And if you TDD low-level code that hits a
> database, a mock would only tell the test what it wants to hear. And
> if you TDD high-level code that manages business rules, database
> records make perfectly good behavioral "fixtures" to support those
> rules.

And could you give an example.
For me it's really hard to develop test first. Often I don't know what
tests to write to replace hardcoded return values by objects that
perform actual work.
I have read several books on TDD and explored http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestDrivenDevelopment
and related wikis, but often it seems I don't have enough
understanding to write even simple application.
And sorry for my English.

with regards,
Max.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:43:25 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:43:25 +0100
Subject: Plugin architecture
Message-ID: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

I'm thinking about writing plugin-style architecture for (a new) 
web-based app (with SQLAlchemy as backend).

Say, there's core web app and someone decides to write plugin Accounting 
for this web app that would work with SQA objects of the core app or 
other plugins.

I found this:

http://effbot.org/zone/metaclass-plugins.htm

(Although I'm not entirely sure this is the best approach for the web app)

How would you approach designing such architecture using features 
available in Python (and some major web framework, like Pylons or Django)?

Regards,
mk



From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:53:23 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:53:23 +0100
Subject: Plugin architecture
In-Reply-To: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002151053s692f5c5fj6ae43838e4529a51@mail.gmail.com>

> I'm thinking about writing plugin-style architecture for (a new)
> web-based app (with SQLAlchemy as backend).
>
> Say, there's core web app and someone decides to write plugin Accounting
> for this web app that would work with SQA objects of the core app or
> other plugins.
>
> I found this:
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/metaclass-plugins.htm
>
> (Although I'm not entirely sure this is the best approach for the web app)
>
> How would you approach designing such architecture using features
> available in Python (and some major web framework, like Pylons or Django)?

Major web frameworks like django, turbogears (thicker ones), pylons,
cherrypy (thinner ones) include all the functionality for doing this
sort of thing out of the box. If I were you I would go ahead and use
one of these frameworks and only start thinking about designing
something new if I hit a wall. Chances are you won't.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 13:53:38 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:53:38 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
Message-ID: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>

  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
    if data[9] is None:
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable

I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
for a date-time stamp.

I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
in it.

How would I go about recommending a change the module?

Original code:
def mktime_tz(data):
    """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
    if data[9] is None:
        # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
        return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
    else:
        t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
        return t - data[9] - time.timezone

Patched code:
def mktime_tz(data):
    """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
    try:
        if data[9] is None:
            # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
            return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
        else:
            t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
            return t - data[9] - time.timezone
    except TypeError:
        return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))


----
Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of
stairs.

To argue that honorable conduct is only required against an honorable
enemy degrades the Americans who must carry out the orders. -- Charles
Krulak, Former Commandant of the Marine Corps

We are all slave to our own paradigm. -- Joshua Williams

If the letters PhD appear after a person's name, that person will
remain outdoors even after it's started raining. -- Jeff Kay


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 15 13:56:10 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:56:10 +0000
Subject: get a field
In-Reply-To: <4B799249.2020205@tim.thechases.com>
References: <dede62f41002150818u233d2d46r1fcc79cd62de7b1b@mail.gmail.com>	<hlbu7u$k29$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B799249.2020205@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4B7998CA.2090604@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Tim Chase wrote:
>  Holden wrote:
>> mierdatutis mi wrote:
>>> I have this:
>>>
>>> pe="http://www.rtve.es/mediateca/videos/20100211/saber-comer---patatas-castellanas-costillas-11-02-10/691046.shtml" 
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to extract this: 691046.shtml
>>>
>>> But is dynamically. Not always have the same lenght the string.
>>
>>>>> s = "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml"
>>>>> s.rfind("/")         # finds rightmost "/"
>> 26
>>>>> s[s.rfind("/")+1:]   # substring starting after "/"
>> 'file.shtml'
> 
> If I didn't use os.path.basename(s) then I'd write this as 
> "s.rsplit('/', 1)[-1]"
> 
>   >>> "http://server/path/to/file/file.shtml".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
>   'file.shtml'
>   >>> "".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
>   ''
>   >>> "file.html".rsplit('/', 1)[-1]
>   'file.html'
> 
> I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but I always appreciate 
> seeing how various people solve the same problem.  I tend to lean away 
> from the find()/index() methods on strings because I have to stop and 
> think which one raises the exception and which one returns -1 (and that 
> it's -1 instead of 0) usually dropping to a python shell and doing
> 
>   >>> help("".find)
>   >>> help("".index)
> 
> to refresh my memory.
> 
> FWIW, Steve's solution and the os.path.basename() both produce the same 
> results with all 3 input values, so it's more a matter of personal style 
> preference.  The basename() version has slightly different results if 
> you have Windows paths with backslashes:
> 
>   s = r'c:\path\to\file.txt'
> 
> but since you (OP) know that they should be URLs with forward-slashes, 
> it should be a non-issue.
> 
The MacOS separator was (is?) ":". Since MacOS X it has been based on
Unix, so I'm not sure what Python sees nowadays, "/" or still ":".
Another platform, RISC OS, uses ".". For that reason I wouldn't use
os.path.basename().

An alternative to .rsplit() is .rpartition().


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 15 14:21:17 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:21:17 +0000
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B799EAD.90805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

BJ Swope wrote:
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>     if data[9] is None:
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
> 
> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
> for a date-time stamp.
> 
> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
> in it.
> 
> How would I go about recommending a change the module?
> 
> Original code:
> def mktime_tz(data):
>     """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
>     if data[9] is None:
>         # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
>         return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>     else:
>         t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
>         return t - data[9] - time.timezone
> 
> Patched code:
> def mktime_tz(data):
>     """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
>     try:
>         if data[9] is None:
>             # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
>             return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>         else:
>             t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
>             return t - data[9] - time.timezone
>     except TypeError:
>         return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
> 
The traceback is saying that 'data' is None, not that it's too short
(that would raise an IndexError).


From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Feb 15 14:24:23 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:24:23 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Alf said (2/13/2010 8:34 PM):

> Names in Python refer to objects.
>
> Those references can be copied via assignment.
>
> That's (almost) all.
>
> And it provides a very short and neat way to describe pass by sharing.

Alf also said (2/13/2010 8:43 PM):

> * Steve Howell:
> > This thread is interesting on many levels.  What is the core
> > question that is being examined here?
>
> I think that regarding the technical it is whether a Python name
> refers to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the
> reference can be copied, and that the semantics of the language
> requires this and is defined in terms of this. Steve Holden,
> D'Aprano and many others maintain that there are no references, or
> that if there are then they're only an implementation aspect, i.e.
> that conceiveable one could have an implementation without them.

Steve D'Aprano said (2/14/2010 12:13 AM):

> That's not to say that the general concept of references (as in "to
> refer to") isn't valuable when discussing Python. If you want to say
> that (e.g.) following
>
> x = 1
>
> the name "x" refers to (or even points to!) the object 1, my
> objections will be mild or non-existent. In that sense, it's probably
> impossible to program without some sort of "references": the computer
> manipulates variables or objects directly, while we manipulate
> characters in source code. The only way to write a program is to use
> some abstract thing (a name, an offset, whatever) that refers, in
> some fashion, to a collection of bits in the computer's memory. But
> to go from that to the idea that (say) x is a pointer does so much
> violence to the concept of pointer and has so much room for confusion
> that it is actively harmful.

I think most of the technical argument in this thread comes down to the
various forms of the word *refer*. After execution of this Python statement:

   x = 5

... we can use this English-language statement:

   the name *x* refers to the value *5*

(If anyone has more than Steve's "mild" objection, please speak up!)

The English-language statement uses the VERB "refers". It is not the 
same as using the NOUN "reference":

   *x* is a reference to the value *5*

Why not? Because using the NOUN form suggests that you're talking about
a particular kind of object in the world Python, as in these statements:

   *x* is a string
   *x* is a function
   *x* is a class

But Python does not define *reference* objects -- by which I mean that
executing *import types; dir(types)* produces a long list of object-type 
names, and there's nothing like a "reference" on that list.

(I suspect there's a better way to make this "there are no reference
objects" argument. Can anyone help?)

Amending the statement to:

   the name *x* is a reference to the value *5*

... doesn't really help matters. Is *x* a NAME or is it a REFERENCE?

Looking again at Alf's assertion:

> [the core technical question is] whether a Python name
> refers to an object or not. I maintain that it does, and that the
> reference can be copied,

... and Alf's example (message dated 2/10/2010 5:02 PM):

> For example,
>
>   x = s[0]
>
> accesses the object that s points (refers) to.

I believe Alf would characterize this assignment statement as a 
situation in which "a reference is copied" [using the NOUN form of 
"refer"]. But no object is copied during execution of this statement. 
Moreover, saying "a reference is copied" might mislead a Python newbie 
into thinking that some kind of "reference object" exists that can be 
copied by Python statements. So it's better to describe the situation 
using the VERB form of "refer":

   assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to


-John


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:31:11 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:31:11 -0800
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:53 AM, BJ Swope <bigblueswope at gmail.com> wrote:

>  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>    if data[9] is None:
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
>
> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
> for a date-time stamp.
>
> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
> in it.
>

While there may or may not be a bug in the library, I don't think its where
you're fixing. Just because an exception occurs in a function doesn't mean
that function is broken: its documented as accepting a 10 item tuple, only.
Functions in the stdlib generally -should- throw exceptions on invalid
input.

Someone's passing None into it, which its not allowed to do. So -that's-
where the bug probably is, I think. (Although it may not be the immediate of
mktime_tz; it could be happening higher up on the stack)

Advice: Always post complete tracebacks to c.p.l/python-list :)

--S
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From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:47:32 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:47:32 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:53 AM, BJ Swope <bigblueswope at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>> ? ?if data[9] is None:
>> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
>>
>> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
>> for a date-time stamp.
>>
>> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
>> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
>> in it.
>
> While there may or may not be a bug in the library, I don't think its where
> you're fixing. Just because an exception occurs in a function doesn't mean
> that function is broken: its documented as accepting a 10 item tuple, only.
> Functions in the stdlib generally -should- throw exceptions on invalid
> input.
> Someone's passing None into it, which its not allowed to do. So -that's-
> where the bug probably is, I think. (Although it may not be the immediate of
> mktime_tz; it could be happening higher up on the stack)
> Advice: Always post complete tracebacks to c.p.l/python-list :)
> --S


>From the module:

def mktime_tz(data):
    """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
    if data[9] is None:
       # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
       return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
    else:
        t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
        return t - data[9] - time.timezone


It appears that the module is trying to accommodate the potential
missing TZ data because poorly written emails are missing the TZ data.

I discarded all the crontab emails that had the full traceback in
them.  I took out the try/except clause in the hopes that I'll get
another exception soon.

If I do I'll post the entire exception traceback.


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Feb 15 14:51:04 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:51:04 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B79A5A8.8020008@ieee.org>

BJ Swope wrote:
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>     if data[9] is None:
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
>
> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
> for a date-time stamp.
>
> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
> in it.
>
> How would I go about recommending a change the module?
>
> Original code:
> def mktime_tz(data):
>     """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
>     if data[9] is None:
>         # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
>         return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>     else:
>         t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
>         return t - data[9] - time.timezone
>
> Patched code:
> def mktime_tz(data):
>     """Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
>     try:
>         if data[9] is None:
>             # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
>             return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>         else:
>             t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
>             return t - data[9] - time.timezone
>     except TypeError:
>         return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
>
>
> ----
> Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they
> still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of
> stairs.
>
> To argue that honorable conduct is only required against an honorable
> enemy degrades the Americans who must carry out the orders. -- Charles
> Krulak, Former Commandant of the Marine Corps
>
> We are all slave to our own paradigm. -- Joshua Williams
>
> If the letters PhD appear after a person's name, that person will
> remain outdoors even after it's started raining. -- Jeff Kay
>
>   
Is the code that calls mktime_tz() your own?  If so, maybe you'd be 
better off fixing that.  The error message indicates that the 'data' 
parameter is None, which is invalid, according to the 2.6 documentation 
anyway (the parameter to the function is supposed to be a 10-tuple).  So 
it's a bug in the caller, not in that function.  

Besides, your fix will still raise another exception inside the except 
class, since if data[9] gives that error, so will data[:8}

DaveA



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb 15 14:53:46 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:53:46 -0800
Subject: Using class attributes
In-Reply-To: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002151153l2ce0050bt9297ae9acfa34c6b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> wrote:
> I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
> FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
> (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
> FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
>
> I can derive the template filename string for each instance by
> doing something like this in the base class (and then not
> forgetting to call super() in the __init__() of each derived
> class):
>
> ?class Foo(object):
>
> ? ? ?def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? ?self.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % self.__class__.__name__
> ? ? ? ? ?self.template_body = read_body_from(self.template_filename)
>
> But, since this information is the same for every instance of
> each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
> the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
> these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
> can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
>
> I can of course always just hardcode the template filenames in
> each derived class, but I am just curious if it can be automated
> through some form of introspection.

Metaclasses to the rescue!:

class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
        klass = type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
        klass.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % name
        klass.template_body = read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
        return klass

class Foo(object):
    __metaclass__ = WithTemplateAttrs
    #rest of class body here

Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
automatically get the attributes generated.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:54:16 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:54:16 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>
	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fca207171002151154q20773b7epc50dd1545c0f5def@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:47 PM, BJ Swope <bigblueswope at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:53 AM, BJ Swope <bigblueswope at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>>> ? ?if data[9] is None:
>>> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
>>>
>>> I'm parsing a bunch of spam and using the date field from the spams
>>> for a date-time stamp.
>>>
>>> I've fixed the lib on my box to place the call inside a try/except
>>> clause to catch the exception now, but it seems the module has a bug
>>> in it.
>>
>> While there may or may not be a bug in the library, I don't think its where
>> you're fixing. Just because an exception occurs in a function doesn't mean
>> that function is broken: its documented as accepting a 10 item tuple, only.
>> Functions in the stdlib generally -should- throw exceptions on invalid
>> input.
>> Someone's passing None into it, which its not allowed to do. So -that's-
>> where the bug probably is, I think. (Although it may not be the immediate of
>> mktime_tz; it could be happening higher up on the stack)
>> Advice: Always post complete tracebacks to c.p.l/python-list :)
>> --S
>
>
> From the module:
>
> def mktime_tz(data):
> ? ?"""Turn a 10-tuple as returned by parsedate_tz() into a UTC timestamp."""
> ? ?if data[9] is None:
> ? ? ? # No zone info, so localtime is better assumption than GMT
> ? ? ? return time.mktime(data[:8] + (-1,))
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ? ?t = time.mktime(data[:8] + (0,))
> ? ? ? ?return t - data[9] - time.timezone
>
>
> It appears that the module is trying to accommodate the potential
> missing TZ data because poorly written emails are missing the TZ data.
>
> I discarded all the crontab emails that had the full traceback in
> them. ?I took out the try/except clause in the hopes that I'll get
> another exception soon.
>
> If I do I'll post the entire exception traceback.
>


Speak of the devil and demons appear...

 /logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py

Parsing of emails for spam at serv1.bigbluenetworks.com failed.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py",
line 81, in <module>
    clean_stale_mail()
  File "/logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py",
line 24, in clean_stale_mail
    utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
    if data[9] is None:
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable





def clean_stale_mail():
    msg_date1= the_email.get('Date')
    msg_date2 = email.utils.parsedate_tz(msg_date1)
    try:
        utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
    except OverflowError:
        M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')
        return
    utc_stale_date = time.time() - (86000*stale_days)
    if utc_msg_date <= utc_stale_date:
        M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')


try:
    #M = imaplib.IMAP4(HOST)
    M = imaplib.IMAP4_SSL(HOST)
    M.login(USER, PASSWD)
    M.select(MAILBOX)

    response, msg_list = M.search(None, 'ALL') # response is IMAP
response, msg_list is list of Message IDs

    for msg_id in msg_list[0].split(): #msg_list[0] is a space
separated string of message ids
        response, message = M.fetch(msg_id, '(RFC822)') # response is
the IMAP response, message is an RFC222 message

        msg = email.FeedParser.FeedParser( )
        msg.feed(message[0][1])
        the_email = msg.close()

        clean_stale_mail()

        if the_email.is_multipart():
            for part in the_email.walk():
                if part.get_content_type() == 'text/html':
                    decoded_part = part.get_payload(decode=1)
                    soup_parse(decoded_part)
        elif the_email.get_content_type() == 'text/html':
            decoded_part = the_email.get_payload(decode=1)
            soup_parse(decoded_part)
        elif the_email.get_content_type() == 'text/plain':
            msg_payload = the_email.get_payload()
            manual_parse(msg_payload)
        else:
            continue
            #print msg_id, "Did't match any defined content types..."
            #print the_email
    M.expunge()
    M.close()
    M.logout()


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 14:56:53 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:56:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Lacrima wrote:

> Thanks for your reply! Isn't what you are talking about integration
> tests? And unit tests should be fully isolated? So even for method
> 'some_method()' of class A I should mock instance of class A (i.e. to
> mock 'self') to test 'some_method()'.

"Unit test" is a high-end QA concept. Developers can get the best
return on "developer tests". They don't bother with aerospace-quality
isolation between units.

If a TDD test needs to pull in a bunch of modules to pass, that's
generally a good thing, because they all get indirect testing. If they
catch a bug, their local tests might not catch it, but the higher
level tests still have a chance.

(And if your product still needs unit tests, TDD will make them very
easy for a formal QA team to add.)

However, expensive setup is a design smell. That means if a test case
requires too many lines of code for its Assemble phase (before its
Activate and Assert phases), then maybe those lines of code support
objects that are too coupled, and they need a better design.

Throwing mocks at these objects, instead of decoupling them, will
"perfume" the design smell, instead of curing it.

> > "construction encapsulation")

> And could you give an example.

  def test_frob(self):
      frob = Frob()
      frob.knob = Mock()
      frob.knob.value = Mock(return_value = 42)
      assert 42 == frob.method_using_knob()

We need the mock because we can't control how Frob's constructor built
its knob. So instead, give Frob the option to construct with a Knob:

  def test_frob(self):
      knob = Knob(42)
      frob = Frob(knob)
      assert frob.method_using_knob()

Note that in production the Knob constructor never takes a Knob. Maybe
we should upgrade the production code too (!), or maybe Knob's
constructor should only create a knob if it didn't get passed one.
Either technique is acceptable, because the resulting code decouples
Frobs and Knobs just a little bit more.

> For me it's really hard to develop test first. Often I don't know what
> tests to write to replace hardcoded return values by objects that
> perform actual work.

You have read too many books on TDD. C-:

Alternate between writing lines of test and lines of code. Run the
tests after the fewest possible edits, and always correctly predict if
the tests will pass, or will fail, and with what diagnostic. (And
configure your editor to run the stankin tests, no matter how hard it
fights you!) The high-end tricks will get easier after you get the
basic cycle down.

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb 15 15:04:12 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:04:12 -0800
Subject: Talking with ebay using Python
In-Reply-To: <a7268e571002150610g8b28821q34ca600c7222a960@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a7268e571002150610g8b28821q34ca600c7222a960@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002151204i487fea42mcba4f7142288a407@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 6:10 AM, starglider develop
<starglider.dev at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I need a way of talking with the eBay API:
> Made search,
> Ask for item status.
>
> What can it be done, and where can I get the info.

In the future, search Google and PyPI (http://pypi.python.org/pypi).
(PyPI is like CPAN for Python.)

Here's what I came up with:

pyeBay:
http://ebaydeveloper.typepad.com/pyebay.html

easyBay:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/easyBay/0.1dev

They both haven't been updated in a while are are probably
unmaintained. I have never used either of these; I have no idea
whether they still work.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Feb 15 15:17:35 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:17:35 -0800
Subject: Talking with ebay using Python
In-Reply-To: <a7268e571002151212l22b59e83tf8a2aecf9f6d3c9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a7268e571002150610g8b28821q34ca600c7222a960@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002151204i487fea42mcba4f7142288a407@mail.gmail.com>
	<a7268e571002151212l22b59e83tf8a2aecf9f6d3c9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002151217p5a01dfa4x4b3df752d5c412e6@mail.gmail.com>

> On 15 February 2010 20:04, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 6:10 AM, starglider develop
>> <starglider.dev at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > I need a way of talking with the eBay API:
>> > Made search,
>> > Ask for item status.
>> >
>> > What can it be done, and where can I get the info.
>>
>> In the future, search Google and PyPI (http://pypi.python.org/pypi).
>> (PyPI is like CPAN for Python.)
>>
>> Here's what I came up with:
>>
>> pyeBay:
>> http://ebaydeveloper.typepad.com/pyebay.html
>>
>> easyBay:
>> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/easyBay/0.1dev
>>
>> They both haven't been updated in a while are are probably
>> unmaintained. I have never used either of these; I have no idea
>> whether they still work.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 12:12 PM, starglider develop
<starglider.dev at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your replay Chris,
> but easyBay is no longer available, I had contact the mantainer without
> result.
> pyebay is new to me but lacks documentations and the output is in XML unlike
> easybay the creats a class.

Er, easyBay is available. Click one of the file links on its PyPI
entry, they work just fine.

And in the future, mention the results of any search (i.e. the fact
you tried contacting the easyBay dev) in your first message.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From chiranjeevi.muttoju at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 15:33:18 2010
From: chiranjeevi.muttoju at gmail.com (chiranjeevi muttoju)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:33:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit
	status 1
Message-ID: <0276dd58-9d1a-456d-ab81-33bd241e7d85@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
When i'm trying to install some modules for python i'm getting the
fallowing error..

error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit
status 1

can any one know what it exactly means.. if any body know please
reply.
i have gcc version  4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46).
i'm using python python2.6,

some of the modules getting this type of errors are.. mysqldb, and
pytc., etc..

if any one know please help me..

Thanks and Regards..
chiranjeevi.muttoju


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 15 15:42:42 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:42:42 +0000
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <fca207171002151154q20773b7epc50dd1545c0f5def@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>
	<fca207171002151154q20773b7epc50dd1545c0f5def@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B79B1C2.5040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>

BJ Swope wrote:
[snip]
> 
> Speak of the devil and demons appear...
> 
>  /logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py
> 
> Parsing of emails for spam at serv1.bigbluenetworks.com failed.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py",
> line 81, in <module>
>     clean_stale_mail()
>   File "/logs/python/imap_fetcher/spam_serv1.bigbluenetworks.com.py",
> line 24, in clean_stale_mail
>     utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/email/_parseaddr.py", line 142, in mktime_tz
>     if data[9] is None:
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable
> 
> 
> 
> def clean_stale_mail():
>     msg_date1= the_email.get('Date')

What is the value of 'msg_date1' at this point?

>     msg_date2 = email.utils.parsedate_tz(msg_date1)

What is the value of 'msg_date2' at this point?

The docs say that parsedate_tz() can return a 10-tuple or None.

Presumably, if it can't parse the date then it returns None.

>     try:
>         utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
>     except OverflowError:
>         M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')
>         return
>     utc_stale_date = time.time() - (86000*stale_days)
>     if utc_msg_date <= utc_stale_date:
>         M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')
> 
[snip]



From philip at semanchuk.com  Mon Feb 15 15:48:38 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:48:38 -0500
Subject: error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with
	exit status 1
In-Reply-To: <0276dd58-9d1a-456d-ab81-33bd241e7d85@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <0276dd58-9d1a-456d-ab81-33bd241e7d85@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <BFBAA3C6-6A0D-480B-96BE-201909254BD8@semanchuk.com>


On Feb 15, 2010, at 3:33 PM, chiranjeevi muttoju wrote:

> Hi,
> When i'm trying to install some modules for python i'm getting the
> fallowing error..
>
> error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit
> status 1
>
> can any one know what it exactly means.. if any body know please
> reply.
> i have gcc version  4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46).
> i'm using python python2.6,
>
> some of the modules getting this type of errors are.. mysqldb, and
> pytc., etc..

Hi Chiranjeevi,
Show us all of the output, please -- everything from where you typed  
'setup.py' until the script died.





From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 15:59:01 2010
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:59:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2592.1266263659.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b6e35aa-2e3c-4983-bc01-8330c3513ee6@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 2:54?pm, BJ Swope <bigbluesw... at gmail.com> wrote:

> def clean_stale_mail():
> ? ? msg_date1= the_email.get('Date')
> ? ? msg_date2 = email.utils.parsedate_tz(msg_date1)
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? utc_msg_date = email.utils.mktime_tz(msg_date2)
> ? ? except OverflowError:
> ? ? ? ? M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')
> ? ? ? ? return
> ? ? utc_stale_date = time.time() - (86000*stale_days)
> ? ? if utc_msg_date <= utc_stale_date:
> ? ? ? ? M.store(msg_id, '+FLAGS.SILENT', '\\Deleted')

It looks like msg_date1 is None.  That is, 'Date' is not found in
the_email.

As Dave Angel said, your "patch" shouldn't fix this problem anyway.
Use your patch and put the same problematic input in it to see if it
really does fix the problem.  (Just to satisfy our morbid curiosity,
not really to help you get a true solution.)

It looks to me like you have to do something to make clean_stale_mail
more robust, rather than focusing on anything in the standard library.

John


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 16:03:10 2010
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:03:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com> 
	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2592.1266263659.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7b6e35aa-2e3c-4983-bc01-8330c3513ee6@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e6bd2498-cff0-463b-822a-f56bcdf35e25@z1g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 3:59?pm, John Yeung <gallium.arsen... at gmail.com> wrote:

> It looks to me like you have to do something to make clean_stale_mail
> more robust, rather than focusing on anything in the standard library.

Let me quickly add: ...or fix whatever calls clean_stale_mail, etc.

John


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 15 16:25:23 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +0000
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <m2aavajinw.fsf@googlemail.com>

John Posner <jjposner at optimum.net> writes:
[...]
>>   x = s[0]
[...]
>   assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to

s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).

-- 
Arnaud


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 17:04:43 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:04:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
Message-ID: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I am trying to learn CGI. I was checking Python Docs. There are
multiple modules. Which one to start with?
Is there any other material or URL for step by step learning of CGI.

My next question is:
I want to test it. I have a small personal computer. I have internet
but is connected by a service provider. I do not have personal web
page. Can I use my personal computer as a client as well as a server?

If your kind time permits to answer me these questions, I would be
hugely benefited.
Wishing you a happy day ahead,
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From dino at phidev.org  Mon Feb 15 17:12:23 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:12:23 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain> <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1266271943.4299.2887.camel@brain>

On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> > Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've
> seen)
> > approach:
> >
> > You need to define something like:
> > |
> > | class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
> > |
> > in your blog software.
> 
> Why? Any reason you can't define it in a separate package the 
> blog-software depends on, as well as your wiki?

That's actually my point - most plugin systems I've seen, like the one
trac uses, are not encouraging you to do so. Having a module that just
defines an Interface is kind of weird - and in the real world no one is
doing it.

> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior 
> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit
> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced. 

Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check if
your "implementation" comply with the "interface". 


Here is one solution I came up with. Based on the earlier example:
> >     Lets say you program a wiki and like to allow different kind of
> >     authentications. So you create two plugins (for example one for
> >     OpenID and one for Shibboleth).
> >
> >      Some time later you feel like reinventing the wheel again and
> >      you program a blog. Again you like to allow different ways of
> >      authentication and you already wrote plugins for exactly the
> >       same for your wiki, right?

auth_openid.py - providing the authentication service
http://dpaste.com/hold/159619/

wiki.py - providing the wiki
http://dpaste.com/hold/159634/

Now putting both together:

> import pbus
>
> import wiki
> import auth_openid
> # or: import auth_shibboleth
>
> pbus.get("wiki").run()

No interface definitions.


What do you think? Any obvious pitfalls (besides reinventing something)?

Please keep in mind that syntax/api is not "done" or anything its just
an concept presentation.

Thanks,
Florian


-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 17:20:01 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:20:01 -0500
Subject: TypeError Exception in email lib
In-Reply-To: <4B79B1C2.5040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <fca207171002151053q416d30dem47919fc955e34d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002151131t212a74baya7f55430be00c09f@mail.gmail.com>
	<fca207171002151147u3a0c9fecka265c2397261e095@mail.gmail.com>
	<fca207171002151154q20773b7epc50dd1545c0f5def@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B79B1C2.5040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <fca207171002151420r7b9e8f4l682c043b93f81050@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:42 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> BJ Swope wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> def clean_stale_mail():
>> ? ?msg_date1= the_email.get('Date')
>
> What is the value of 'msg_date1' at this point?
>
>> ? ?msg_date2 = email.utils.parsedate_tz(msg_date1)
>
> What is the value of 'msg_date2' at this point?
>
> The docs say that parsedate_tz() can return a 10-tuple or None.
>
> Presumably, if it can't parse the date then it returns None.
>

> [snip]
>

msg_date1:  @@DATE
msg_date2:  None

Thanks MRAB, Dave and Stephen!

The spam bot didn't populate the date field with anything remotely
resembling the date.  The @@DATE var was left in the Date header.

In reading the module I misunderstood what the "if date[9] is None:" was doing.

I'll wrap my calls in a try/except.


From dino at phidev.org  Mon Feb 15 17:25:31 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:25:31 +0100
Subject: Plugin architecture
In-Reply-To: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlc4ie$cb0$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1266272731.4299.2902.camel@brain>

Hi mk,

On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 19:43 +0100, mk wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm thinking about writing plugin-style architecture for (a new) 
> web-based app (with SQLAlchemy as backend).
>
> [...]
>
> How would you approach designing such architecture using features 
> available in Python (and some major web framework, like Pylons or Django)?

You should really look into the web framework you're using, there
probably already is some plugin architecture.

But being not content myself with the architectures I've seen or worked
with I was looking for some input as well and posted some days back
about a similar topic. Maybe some of the thoughts expressed there might
help you as well:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/0a210267753919b0/5add7bc93789b418

Florian


-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 17:26:16 2010
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:26:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replace various regex
References: <86bba268-1c5b-4a75-bb3c-e09493bab473@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2561.1266242637.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7b1fed01-e0bf-4240-bdef-f817996a90d6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2563.1266244073.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1f520615-63df-4923-ba2e-c677e460ac9f@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 2:27?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Martin wrote:
> > On Feb 15, 2:03 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Martin wrote:
>
> >>> Hi,
>
> >>> I am trying to come up with a more generic scheme to match and replace
> >>> a series ofregex, which look something like this...
>
> >>> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> >>> 5.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ? ? ?! ?lai(1:npft)
>
> >>> Ideally match the pattern to the right of the "!" sign (e.g. lai), I
> >>> would then like to be able to replace one or all of the corresponding
> >>> numbers on the line. So far I have a rather unsatisfactory solution,
> >>> any suggestions would be appreciated...
>
> >>> The file read in is an ascii file.
>
> >>> f = open(fname, 'r')
> >>> s = f.read()
>
> >>> if CANHT:
> >>> ? ? s = re.sub(r"\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+,\d+.\d+ ? !
> >>> canht_ft", CANHT, s)
>
> >>> where CANHT might be
>
> >>> CANHT = '115.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft'
>
> >>> But this involves me passing the entire string.
>
> >>> Thanks.
>
> >>> Martin
>
> >> I remove all lines containing things like 9*0.0 in your file, cause I
> >> don't know what they mean and how to handle them. These are not numbers.
>
> >> import re
>
> >> replace = {
> >> ? ? 'snow_grnd' : (1, '99.99,'), # replace the 1st number by 99.99
> >> ? ? 't_soil' : (2, '88.8,'), # replace the 2nd number by 88.88
> >> ? ? }
>
> >> testBuffer = """
> >> ?0.749, 0.743, 0.754, 0.759 ?! ?stheta(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
> >> 0.46 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ! ?snow_grnd
> >> 276.78,277.46,278.99,282.48 ?! ?t_soil(1:sm_levels)(top to bottom)
> >> 19.01,16.38,0.79,1.26,1.00 ? ! ?canht_ft(1:npft)
> >> 200.0, 4.0, 2.0, 4.0, 1.0 ! ?lai(1:npft)
> >> """
>
> >> outputBuffer = ''
> >> for line in testBuffer.split('\n'):
> >> ? ? for key, (index, repl) in replace.items():
> >> ? ? ? ? if key in line:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? parameters = {
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 'n' : '[\d\.]+', # given you example you have to change
> >> this one, I don't know what means 9*0.0 in your file
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 'index' : index - 1,
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? }
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? # the following pattern will silently match any digit before
> >> the <index>th digit is found, and use a capturing parenthesis for the last
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? pattern =
> >> '(\s*(?:(?:%(n)s)[,\s]+){0,%(index)s})(?:(%(n)s)[,\s]+)(.*!.*)' %
> >> parameters # regexp are sometimes a nightmare to read
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? line = re.sub(pattern, r'\1 '+repl+r'\3' , line)
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? break
> >> ? ? outputBuffer += line +'\n'
>
> >> print outputBuffer
>
> > Thanks I will take a look. I think perhaps I was having a very slow
> > day when I posted and realised I could solve the original problem more
> > efficiently and the problem wasn't perhaps as I first perceived. It is
> > enough to match the tag to the right of the "!" sign and use this to
> > adjust what lies on the left of the "!" sign. Currently I have
> > this...if anyone thinks there is a neater solution I am happy to hear
> > it. Many thanks.
>
> > variable_tag = 'lai'
> > variable = [200.0, 60.030, 0.060, 0.030, 0.030]
>
> > # generate adjustment string
> > variable = ",".join(["%s" % i for i in variable]) + ' ! ?' +
> > variable_tag
>
> > # call func to adjust input file
> > adjustStandardPftParams(variable, variable_tag, in_param_fname,
> > out_param_fname)
>
> > and the inside of this func looks like this
>
> > def adjustStandardPftParams(self, variable, variable_tag, in_fname,
> > out_fname):
>
> > ? ? f = open(in_fname, 'r')
> > ? ? of = open(out_fname, 'w')
> > ? ? pattern_found = False
>
> > ? ? while True:
> > ? ? ? ? line = f.readline()
> > ? ? ? ? if not line:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? break
> > ? ? ? ? pattern = re.findall(r"!\s+"+variable_tag, line)
> > ? ? ? ? if pattern:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'yes'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? print >> of, "%s" % variable
> > ? ? ? ?pattern_found = True
>
> > ? ? ? ? if pattern_found:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? pattern_found = False
> > ? ? ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? of.write(line)
>
> > ? ? f.close()
> > ? ? of.close()
>
> > ? ? return
>
> Are you sure a simple
> if variable_tag in line:
> ? ? # do some stuff
>
> is not enough ?
>
> People will usually prefer to write
>
> for line in open(in_fname, 'r') :
>
> instead of your ugly while loop ;-)
>
> JM

My while loop is suitably offended. I have changed it as you
suggested...though if I do: if pattern (variable_tag) in line as you
suggested i would in my example correctly pick the tag lai, but also
one called dcatch_lai, which I wouldn't want. No doubt there is an
obvious solution I am again missing!

of = open(out_fname, 'w')
pattern_found = False

for line in open(in_fname, 'r'):
    pattern = re.findall(r"!\s+"+variable_tag, line)
    if pattern:
       print >> of, "%s" % variable
       pattern_found = True

    if pattern_found:
       pattern_found = False
    else:
       of.write(line)

of.close()

Many Thanks.


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Mon Feb 15 17:53:37 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:53:37 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:07:35 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hy, first thanks for your response!
> Well I am thinkin on coding in MPEG4/10, but I would just encode the
> video in that encoding,
> then stream it with VLC and save the video file on my disc. Then I
> would play it with my player....

I think you're misunderstanding what VLC does here.  Saving the video file  
should preserve format by default; you may be able save it out in YUV  
format (I don't have a copy on this machine to check), but that will take  
up ludicrous amounts of disc space and you'd still have to write a byte  
reader for it.  If you do do that, you have lost any chance of knowing  
whether a frame was an I or P frame in the original format, not that it  
matters anyway by that point.

MPEG-4/10 is hard to write efficient decoders for, and I have to admit I  
wouldn't do it in Python.  You'd be better off writing a wrapper for one  
of the existing MP4 libraries.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Feb 15 17:58:03 2010
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:58:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlcjhr$h0a$1@reader2.panix.com>

In <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23 at o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com> joy99 <subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com> writes:

> Can I use my personal computer as a client as well as a server?

Yes, if you install a web server on your PC.  You would then use 
"localhost" in your browser instead of a standard web address.

Assuming you're running Windows, have a look at this page to download
the Apache web server:

http://mirror.candidhosting.com/pub/apache/httpd/binaries/win32/README.html

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb 15 18:05:39 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Feb 2010 23:05:39 GMT
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:29:05 +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote:

> However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a
> script in there, how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within
> the database subdirectory? This fails:
>     from tools.logutils import logger

Sounds like you need to ensure that the top level directory needs to be 
added to your PYTHONPATH.

Do you need instructions to do this?

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb 15 18:09:59 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Feb 2010 23:09:59 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net> <m2aavajinw.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> John Posner <jjposner at optimum.net> writes: [...]
>>>   x = s[0]
> [...]
>>   assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
> 
> s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
> course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).

Precisely. Treated as an expression, that is, as a string being evaluated 
by the compiler, we would say that it *refers to* an object (unless 
evaluation fails, in which case it refers to nothing at all). But treated 
as whatever you get after the compiler is done with it, that is, post-
evaluation, we would say that it *is* an object.

This subtle distinction is essentially the difference between a label and 
the thing that is labeled.



-- 
Steven


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 18:34:35 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:34:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
Message-ID: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Hey all,

I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.
(So if galileo228 at gmail.com was in the file, 'galileo228' would be
added to the list.)

Any suggestions would be much appeciated!

Matt


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 18:45:34 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:45:34 +0100
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net>	<m2aavajinw.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hlcme4$3eo$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steven D'Aprano:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> 
>> John Posner <jjposner at optimum.net> writes: [...]
>>>>   x = s[0]
>> [...]
>>>   assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
>> s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
>> course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).
> 
> Precisely. Treated as an expression, that is, as a string being evaluated 
> by the compiler, we would say that it *refers to* an object (unless 
> evaluation fails, in which case it refers to nothing at all). But treated 
> as whatever you get after the compiler is done with it, that is, post-
> evaluation, we would say that it *is* an object.
> 
> This subtle distinction is essentially the difference between a label and 
> the thing that is labeled.

The main differences between a pure functional language where that view can hold 
and be reasonable, and a language like Python, are that

   * Python assignments change which object a name refers to, /at runtime/.

     - Name binding is run time action, not a compile time action.
       Without run time binding names couldn't be reassigned. s = 1; s = 2

   * Some Python objects are modifiable (a.k.a. mutable).

     - This is particularly important when two or more names refer to the
       same object and that object is modified.

That is, a simple-minded transfer of concepts from pure functional programming 
to Python breaks down in these cases[1].

I hope this explanation of exactly where the functional programming enthusiasts 
here go wrong can be of help to readers of the thread, although I've given up 
hope on those holding the functional programming view (since I'm only human, and 
even the Gods contend in vain against that sort of thing).


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

Notes:
[1] Steven D'Aprano's focus on compilation rather than execution mainly ignores 
the first point, that a name in given a statement in a loop, say, can refer to 
different objects in different loop iterations. Happily the Python language 
specification explains binding as a run-time action. Binding is not a compile 
time action in Python, it is a run-time action, and can bind a given name in a 
given statement within the same routine execution, to different objects, and the 
language specification of course uses the phrase "refers to" to explain the 
situation after a run time binding.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 15 18:49:31 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:49:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4fc54d57-cab5-41ee-8546-19e2645b329e@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 3:34?pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
> email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
> characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.
> (So if galileo... at gmail.com was in the file, 'galileo228' would be
> added to the list.)
>
> Any suggestions would be much appeciated!
>

You may want to use regexes for this. For every match, split on '@'
and take the first bit.

Note that the actual specification for email addresses is far more
than a single regex can handle. However, for almost every single case
out there nowadays, a regex will get what you need.



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 15 18:52:19 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:52:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6f343cb9-fc6c-40d8-ad70-7e02851857ad@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 2:04?pm, joy99 <subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am trying to learn CGI. I was checking Python Docs. There are
> multiple modules. Which one to start with?
> Is there any other material or URL for step by step learning of CGI.
>

I would suggest skipping 15 years of internet progress and going with
a more modern framework. I recommend Pylons, although Django and
web.py are not bad.

> My next question is:
> I want to test it. I have a small personal computer. I have internet
> but is connected by a service provider. I do not have personal web
> page. Can I use my personal computer as a client as well as a server?
>

Yes. The nature of the internet means anyone that connects can be a
client or a server or both at the same time.

Heck, you don't even need to have a connection to the internet. Just
play with 127.0.0.1, which points right back to the same machine
you're running on.

I do this all the time for developing and testing out websites or
change to websites I work on.



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 15 18:55:05 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:55:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com> 
	<mailman.2567.1266249569.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fff256b7-af9a-4c9d-b7d6-80c2abcba702@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 7:59?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> pyt... at bdurham.com wrote:
> > Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
>
> > Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular expressions
> > as validation criteria. If a user enters a pathological regular
> > expression, we would like to timeout the evaluation of this expression
> > after a short period of time.
>
> Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an operation
> if it takes too much time.
>
> One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
> process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.
>
> This group being what it is you are likely to receive other, better
> suggestions too.
>

I'm not sure how exactly the re module is implemented, but since I
assume a great chunk is in C code, you may get away with a single
process and multiple threads. One thread will watch the process, or
have a timer event set to go off at a certain point. The other will
actually run the regex and get killed by the timer process if it
doesn't finish in time.


From news123 at free.fr  Mon Feb 15 19:04:28 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:04:28 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python 
Message-ID: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,


What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.

As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.

However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
as well.

Thanks for any info and bye


N


From news123 at free.fr  Mon Feb 15 19:10:51 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:10:51 +0100
Subject: How to use python to register a service (an existing .exe file)
Message-ID: <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

Is there a python way to register new windows services.


I am aware of the
instsrv.exe program, which can be used to install services.
I could use subprocess.Popen to call


instsrv.exe "service_name" program.exe


but wondered, whether there's already an existing function.

Thans in advance and bye


N


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Feb 15 19:17:13 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:17:13 +1100
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87eikmc9va.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lacrima <lacrima.maxim at gmail.com> writes:

> Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
> it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
> the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
> understand fully how minimock works.

I'm not sure why you think you need to keep track of the order of
imports.

Simply set up the mocks as you want them, in your fixtures; then, when
tearing down your fixtures, use ?minimock.restore()? to restore the
affected namespaces to their initial state.

-- 
 \       ?? one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was |
  `\        that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful |
_o__)                  termination of their C programs.? ?Robert Firth |
Ben Finney


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 19:17:31 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:17:31 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hlcoa5$nqe$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* News123:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
> 
> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
> 
> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
> as well.
> 
> Thanks for any info and bye

* Library:

   If there is some existing library for that (just search the web) then that
   would probably be the easiest.

* Registry functions:

   Otherwise, I'd use the general registry access functions.

   Info about the registry access functions is available in your Python docs.

   All the information about services is in the Windows registry (documented in
   the MSDN Library, which is available in a browsable on-line version at
   Microsoft).

* Text-oriented commands:

   An alternative to using the registry access functions is to capture the output
   of e.g. the 'sc' command.

   The 'net' command also has some functionality related to services, e.g.
   'net start'.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Feb 15 19:33:19 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:33:19 -0500
Subject: Modifying Class Object
In-Reply-To: <4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hl6gjn$m4c$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hl6ilk$f7h$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<hl7nt6$lch$1@panix5.panix.com>	<8e6f2d9a-13a8-45f4-b1d1-52b093862237@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<4b7773c6$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8a6b1b50-a353-41fa-b152-b635ab1d7bc9@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77867d$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<0bebc4fe-ca6c-4f73-ba6c-0bb44fe06fc3@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<4b77a488$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<a9731acb-4011-4f83-a062-42150f9bb343@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4b781297$0$8767$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8043a841-b814-47a7-914e-dd25944d1d7e@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2551.1266191317.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hla53g$ijg$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b799f4a$0$4980$607ed4bc@cv.net>	<m2aavajinw.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<4b79d447$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B79E7CF.3050805@optimum.net>

On 2/15/2010 6:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:25:23 +0000, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>
>> John Posner<jjposner at optimum.net>  writes: [...]
>>>>    x = s[0]
>> [...]
>>>    assigns the name *x* to the object that *s[0]* refers to
>>
>> s[0] does not refer to an object, it *is* an object (once evaluated of
>> course, otherwise it's just a Python expression).
>
> Precisely. Treated as an expression, that is, as a string being evaluated
> by the compiler, we would say that it *refers to* an object (unless
> evaluation fails, in which case it refers to nothing at all). But treated
> as whatever you get after the compiler is done with it, that is, post-
> evaluation, we would say that it *is* an object.
>
> This subtle distinction is essentially the difference between a label and
> the thing that is labeled.

Is this your only quibble with my writeup? If, so, I'm gratified. And 
your objections make perfect sense. Still, I'll attempt to justify my 
phrasing. I was originally going to write:

   assigns the name *x* to the object that THE NAME *s[0]* refers to

... but I didn't want to start a distracting argument on the use of the 
phrase *the name* to describe the 4-char string *s[0]*. So now I'll try 
to (briefly) make my case.

Yes, it might be more correct to say that *s[0]* is an expression 
(equivalent to the more obvious expression *s.__getitem__(0)*). But in 
common usage, the 4-char string *s[0]* _behaves_ like a name. If you 
accept this viewpoint, the story on Python assignment statements becomes 
quite simple ...

Syntactic sugar aside, there are only two kinds of assignment statements:

1. NAME = EXPRESSION

The EXPRESSION creates a new object, and the NAME is assigned to that 
object. Examples:

  x = x + 1
  obj = MyClass(1, 2, "red")
  mywordlist = mysentence.split()

2. NAME2 = NAME1

No new object is created. NAME2 becomes another name (an "alias") for 
the existing object that currently has NAME1 assigned to it. Examples:

  y = x
  s[0] = s[42]
  mydict["spamwich"] == this_sandwich
  obj.color = MYCOLORS.LTGREEN

This viewpoint might fail in advanced areas of Python programming: 
properties/descriptors, double-underscore methods, etc. But in my own 
day-to-day usage (admittedly, I'm a hobbyist Python programmer, not a 
professional), it's never failed me to think this way:

  * A dict is a collection of user-devised names, each of which
    is assigned to an object.
  * A list/tuple is an interpreter-maintained collection of integer
    names (0, 1, 2, ...), each of which is assigned to an object.
  * A class instance is very much like a dict.

Tx,
John


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Feb 15 19:35:21 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:35:21 -0600
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
In-Reply-To: <4fc54d57-cab5-41ee-8546-19e2645b329e@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<4fc54d57-cab5-41ee-8546-19e2645b329e@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B79E849.7060905@tim.thechases.com>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 15, 3:34 pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
>> email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
>> characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.
>> (So if galileo... at gmail.com was in the file, 'galileo228' would be
>> added to the list.)
>>
>> Any suggestions would be much appeciated!
>>
> 
> You may want to use regexes for this. For every match, split on '@'
> and take the first bit.
> 
> Note that the actual specification for email addresses is far more
> than a single regex can handle. However, for almost every single case
> out there nowadays, a regex will get what you need.

You can even capture the part as you find the regexps.  As 
Jonathan mentions, finding RFC-compliant email addresses can be a 
hairy/intractable problem.  But you can get a pretty close 
approximation:

   import re

   r = re.compile(r'([-\w._+]+)@(?:[-\w]+\.)+(?:\w{2,5})', re.I)
   #                                        ^
   # if you want to allow local domains like
   #   user at localhost
   # then change the "+" marked with the "^"
   # to a "*" and the "{2,5}" to "+" to unlimit
   # the TLD.  This will change the outcome
   # of the last test "jim at com" to True

   for test, expected in (
       ('jim at example.com', True),
       ('jim at sub.example.com', True),
       ('@example.com', False),
       ('@sub.example.com', False),
       ('@com', False),
       ('jim at com', False),
       ):
     m = r.match(test)
     if bool(m) ^ expected:
       print "Failed: %r should be %s" % (test, expected)

   emails = set()
   for line in file('test.txt'):
     for match in r.finditer(line):
       emails.add(match.group(1))
   print "All the emails:",
   print ', '.join(emails)

-tkc








From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Feb 15 19:36:55 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:36:55 -0500
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlcpc5$vi5$1@speranza.aioe.org>

joy99 wrote:

> Dear Group,
> 
> I am trying to learn CGI. I was checking Python Docs. There are
> multiple modules. Which one to start with?
> Is there any other material or URL for step by step learning of CGI.
> 
> My next question is:
> I want to test it. I have a small personal computer. I have internet
> but is connected by a service provider. I do not have personal web
> page. Can I use my personal computer as a client as well as a server?

A server can be as simple as:



#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: ASCII -*-
'''Simple CGI server in Python
$Id$'''
import getopt, os, sys
from BaseHTTPServer import HTTPServer
from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler

port = 8000
opts, args = getopt.getopt (sys.argv[1:], 'd:p:', ['www=', 'port='])
for o, v in opts:
    if o in ['-d', '--www']:
        os.chdir (v)
    elif o in ('-p', '--port'):
        port = int (v)
        
handler = HTTPServer (('', port), CGIHTTPRequestHandler)
handler.serve_forever()



If you run this like

mycgiserver.py --www=my_www_dir

and put your web pages under my_www_dir, and your CGI programs under 
my_www_dir/cgi-bin

then pointing your browser to <http://localhost:8000/> will show you your 
site.

	Mel.




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Feb 15 20:01:03 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:01:03 +1100
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87aavac7u8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

galileo228 <mattbarkan at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
> email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
> characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.

Email addresses can have more than one ?@? character. In fact, the
quoting rules allow the local-part to contain *any ASCII character* and
remain valid.

> Any suggestions would be much appeciated!

For a brief but thorough treatment of parsing email addresses, see RFC
3696, ?Application Techniques for Checking and Transformation of Names?
<URL:http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3696.txt>, specifically section 3.

-- 
 \          ?What I have to do is see, at any rate, that I do not lend |
  `\      myself to the wrong which I condemn.? ?Henry Thoreau, _Civil |
_o__)                                                    Disobedience_ |
Ben Finney


From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 20:06:08 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:06:08 -0500
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
In-Reply-To: <fff256b7-af9a-4c9d-b7d6-80c2abcba702@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2567.1266249569.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<fff256b7-af9a-4c9d-b7d6-80c2abcba702@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlcr2b$ike$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 15, 7:59 am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>> pyt... at bdurham.com wrote:
>>> Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
>>> Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter regular expressions
>>> as validation criteria. If a user enters a pathological regular
>>> expression, we would like to timeout the evaluation of this expression
>>> after a short period of time.
>> Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an operation
>> if it takes too much time.
>>
>> One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
>> process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.
>>
>> This group being what it is you are likely to receive other, better
>> suggestions too.
>>
> 
> I'm not sure how exactly the re module is implemented, but since I
> assume a great chunk is in C code, you may get away with a single
> process and multiple threads. One thread will watch the process, or
> have a timer event set to go off at a certain point. The other will
> actually run the regex and get killed by the timer process if it
> doesn't finish in time.

That would be a great idea if it were possible to kill a thread form
outside. Unfortunately it's not, so the best you can do is set a flag
and have it queried periodically. This is not practical during re matching.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 15 20:37:33 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:37:33 +0000
Subject: Time out a regular expression in Python 2.6.4?
In-Reply-To: <hlcr2b$ike$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1266248602.28792.1360069669@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<mailman.2567.1266249569.28905.python-list@python.org>	<fff256b7-af9a-4c9d-b7d6-80c2abcba702@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<hlcr2b$ike$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B79F6DD.6060207@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> On Feb 15, 7:59 am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>>> pyt... at bdurham.com wrote:
>>>> Is there any way to time out a regular expression in Python
>>>> 2.6.4? Motiviation: Our application allows users to enter
>>>> regular expressions as validation criteria. If a user enters a
>>>> pathological regular expression, we would like to timeout the
>>>> evaluation of this expression after a short period of time.
>>> Python itself does not contain any mechanism to terminate an
>>> operation if it takes too much time.
>>> 
>>> One approach would be to run the regex in a subprocess, and apply
>>> process limits to terminate that subprocess if it ran too long.
>>> 
>>> This group being what it is you are likely to receive other,
>>> better suggestions too.
>>> 
>> I'm not sure how exactly the re module is implemented, but since I 
>> assume a great chunk is in C code, you may get away with a single 
>> process and multiple threads. One thread will watch the process, or
>> have a timer event set to go off at a certain point. The other
>> will actually run the regex and get killed by the timer process if
>> it doesn't finish in time.
> 
> That would be a great idea if it were possible to kill a thread form 
> outside. Unfortunately it's not, so the best you can do is set a flag
> and have it queried periodically. This is not practical during re
> matching.
> 
The code for matching in the re module is written in C, and it doesn't
release the GIL because it calls the Python API, and you need to have
the GIL when doing that (unless you can guarantee that the specific call
is safe, that is!).

This means that other threads can't run during matching.

In order to be able to cancel the matching, the re module would have to
release the GIL when possible and have some kind of cancel() method
(belonging to which class?).

A simpler option would be to add a timeout argument. It already
periodically checks for ctrl-C, so perhaps the time check could be done
then.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 21:16:19 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>
> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>
> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
> as well.

I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].

    >>> import wmi
    >>> c = wmi.WMI()
    >>> services = c.Win32_Service()
    >>> s = services[0]
    >>> s
    <_wmi_object: \\LIB-D5NYF1S\root
\cimv2:Win32_Service.Name="Alerter">
    >>> s.properties
    {u'DisplayName': None, u'ServiceSpecificExitCode': None, u'State':
None, u'Syste
    mName': None, u'ErrorControl': None, u'Status': None,
u'ProcessId': None, u'Desc
    ription': None, u'Started': None, u'AcceptStop': None,
u'CheckPoint': None, u'Pa
    thName': None, u'WaitHint': None, u'Name': None, u'InstallDate':
None, u'Caption
    ': None, u'StartMode': None, u'DesktopInteract': None,
u'ServiceType': None, u'T
    agId': None, u'StartName': None, u'AcceptPause': None,
u'CreationClassName': Non
    e, u'SystemCreationClassName': None, u'ExitCode': None}
    >>> s.Name
    u'Alerter'
    >>> s.Started
    False
    >>> s.ServiceType
    u'Share Process'

1: http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/index.html


From shane_k_mcintyre at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 15 21:19:27 2010
From: shane_k_mcintyre at yahoo.com (Shane McIntyre)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:19:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Web Service Using XML for input and output
Message-ID: <682170.95799.qm@web57515.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I'm attempting to use a web service that takes XML as an input and returns an XML output.? I can connect to the service and attempt to pass in the XML but do not get any results. I believe my problem is how to package up the XML and send it in the request.? The XML consists of about 20 tag/value pairs. Any code snippets or a place to look for some examples would be appreciated.? I'm currently trying to use an HTTPConnection with the XML as a parameter in the request.
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From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Feb 15 21:38:35 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:38:35 -0500
Subject: Web Service Using XML for input and output
In-Reply-To: <682170.95799.qm@web57515.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <682170.95799.qm@web57515.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <hld0fn$t9h$1@ger.gmane.org>

Shane McIntyre wrote:
> I'm attempting to use a web service that takes XML as an input and
> returns an XML output.  I can connect to the service and attempt to pass
> in the XML but do not get any results. I believe my problem is how to
> package up the XML and send it in the request.  The XML consists of
> about 20 tag/value pairs. Any code snippets or a place to look for some
> examples would be appreciated.  I'm currently trying to use an
> HTTPConnection with the XML as a parameter in the request.
> 
Well, one could fatuously point out that you must be doing it wrong, but
without seeing your code it's difficult to know exactly *how* you are
going wrong.

For all I know your current attempt at solution might require only
minimal changes to make it work.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 15 22:28:25 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:28:25 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>
>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>
>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>> as well.
> 
> I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].

It's probably Very Good, but one Microsoft-thing one should be aware of: using 
WMI functionality generally starts up a background WMI service...

Similarly, starting the standard clipboard viewer (discontinued in Windows 
Vista) starts up a silly copy-clipboard-contents-over-network service.

On a low-range machine the WMI service can be a resource concern.

I don't know whether the WMI service is a security concern (it probably is, 
considering IIS and anything Microsoft+Network and that WMI is meant to 
administrate machines over network, it's an enterprise thing not a personal 
computer user thing), but the clipboard service is, as I recall, a concern.


>     >>> import wmi
>     >>> c = wmi.WMI()
>     >>> services = c.Win32_Service()
>     >>> s = services[0]
>     >>> s
>     <_wmi_object: \\LIB-D5NYF1S\root
> \cimv2:Win32_Service.Name="Alerter">
>     >>> s.properties
>     {u'DisplayName': None, u'ServiceSpecificExitCode': None, u'State':
> None, u'Syste
>     mName': None, u'ErrorControl': None, u'Status': None,
> u'ProcessId': None, u'Desc
>     ription': None, u'Started': None, u'AcceptStop': None,
> u'CheckPoint': None, u'Pa
>     thName': None, u'WaitHint': None, u'Name': None, u'InstallDate':
> None, u'Caption
>     ': None, u'StartMode': None, u'DesktopInteract': None,
> u'ServiceType': None, u'T
>     agId': None, u'StartName': None, u'AcceptPause': None,
> u'CreationClassName': Non
>     e, u'SystemCreationClassName': None, u'ExitCode': None}
>     >>> s.Name
>     u'Alerter'
>     >>> s.Started
>     False
>     >>> s.ServiceType
>     u'Share Process'
> 
> 1: http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/index.html

Cheers,

- Alf


From wingusr at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 22:42:15 2010
From: wingusr at gmail.com (TP)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:42:15 -0800
Subject: Am I using ctypes correctly? Where are fprints going?
Message-ID: <fe0b845a1002151942j3fa2591aw4433dbd0d4ff21ce@mail.gmail.com>

>From the Cplusplus-sig, I gathered that instead of Boost.Python I
should use ctypes for the following problem. But let me make sure I'm
using it correctly.

I am calling the C Leptonica Image Processing C Library
(http://leptonica.com) from python.

Within its leptprotos.h file are functions like this:

 extern PIX * pixRead ( const char *filename );
 extern void pixDestroy ( PIX **ppix );

Using Windows XP, and within a Command Prompt I do this:

python26
>>> import ctypes
>>> leptonica = ctypes.cdll.leptonlib
>>> pixRead = leptonica.pixRead

>>> pix=ctypes.c_void_p()
>>> pix.value = pixRead(r"test.tif")
>>> pix
c_void_p(12310144)

>>> leptonica.pixGetWidth(pix)
1553   #this is the correct width

>>> leptonica.pixDestroy(ctypes.byref(pix))
>>> pix
c_void_p(None)   #This look right, pixDestroy() sets the pointer to NULL.

Is this the proper way you are supposed to supply the address of a
pointer that is returned by a C function? Is there a better way?

Should I have done the following also?

>>> pixRead.restype = ctypes.c_void_p
>>> pixDestroy.restype = None

Now that the pix has been destroyed, you shouldn't be able to get its width:

>>> leptonica.pixGetWidth(pix)
-1

This is correct but there also should have been an error message printed out.

The C library is doing this (I think, I haven't actually used the
debugger on it):

    sprintf(charbuf, "Error in %s: %s\n", procname, msg);
    fprintf(stderr, charbuf, ival);

But I don't see any error message appear in my console window?

Finally, the documentation states for ctypes.util.find_msvcrt():

  Windows only: return the filename of the VC runtype library used by
  Python, and by the extension modules. If the name of the library
  cannot be determined, None is returned.

  If you need to free memory, for example, allocated by an extension
  module with a call to the free(void *), it is important that you use
  the function in the same library that allocated the memory.

>>> import ctypes.util
>>> ctypes.util.find_msvcrt()
'msvcr90.dll'

Does this mean that if I build a Debug version of the Leptonica DLL
(which will use the Debug version of the runtime library,
msvcr90d.dll), that I also have to build and use a Debug version of
Python26?

I tried using leptonlibd.dll with the ActiveState release version of
Python26 and didn't see any immediate error.


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 15 23:22:49 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:22:49 +1300
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hld6ip$6ls$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <631b0785-38db-4c12-
a82a-7b11e2235e23 at o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, joy99 wrote:

> Is there any other material or URL for step by step learning of CGI.

There?s the official spec here 
<http://hoohoo.ncsa.illinois.edu/cgi/interface.html>.


From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 23:50:26 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:50:26 -0600
Subject: How to use python to register a service (an existing .exe file)
In-Reply-To: <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <cf9f31f21002152050qd3b0e77wbe3c1f5653b8da9b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 18:10, News123 <news123 at free.fr> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is there a python way to register new windows services.
>
>
> I am aware of the
> instsrv.exe program, which can be used to install services.
> I could use subprocess.Popen to call
>
>
> instsrv.exe "service_name" program.exe
>
>
> but wondered, whether there's already an existing function.
>
> Thans in advance and bye
>
>
> N <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>
>
There is nothing like that in the stdlib, so calling instserv via Popen may
be your best bet.

"sc create" may also be helpful to you.
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From chuckmcknight at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:00:39 2010
From: chuckmcknight at gmail.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:00:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TkTable and Python 3.1
Message-ID: <ab3af9c1-7c84-4ddc-880e-e84d6f634ad0@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

HI All,

I'm fiddling around with Python and I'm trying to get tktable to work
with Python 3.1 on Apple OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard). Has anyone
successfully accomplished this task, and if so, can you share how that
you got it working? I've got Darwin Ports installed (current version)
and I'm using Python 3.1 (ports), Tcl/Tk 8.5 (ports) and I've
installed TkTable 2.10 (ports). Somehow, I've missed doing something
because the Python interpreter can't seem to find the tktable module.

Thanks in advance!

Chuck


From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:13:45 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:13:45 -0600
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hlcoa5$nqe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlcoa5$nqe$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <cf9f31f21002152113r1eceff41oa7f84dae4c92e508@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 18:17, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> * News123:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>>
>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>
>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>
>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>> as well.
>>
>> Thanks for any info and bye
>>
>
>
> * Registry functions:
>
>  Otherwise, I'd use the general registry access functions.
>
>  Info about the registry access functions is available in your Python docs.
>
>  All the information about services is in the Windows registry (documented
> in
>  the MSDN Library, which is available in a browsable on-line version at
>  Microsoft).
>

As for doing this via the registry, take a look at the EnumKey and EnumValue
functions of the winreg module (_winreg in 2.x).
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services contains service information, and
iterating over that should get a lot of what's needed.
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 00:43:25 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:43:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 1:28?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> It's probably Very Good, but one Microsoft-thing one should be aware of: using
> WMI functionality generally starts up a background WMI service...

"Probably"? You haven't even used the module but you felt the need to
contribute anyway? And I see that my suggestion is "probably" a
security concern too. Would it be too much to ask for you to provide
something other than unrelated anecdotes as evidence to support these
claims? Or perhaps produce an alternative solution[1] for the OP
instead of shitting over a working solution?

So you chose to post to share your vague unsubstantiated concerns
while offering the sterling advice that a developer need be familiar
with a system in order to be aware of the costs in using it. Clearly
time well spent by all.

1: http://essiene.blogspot.com/2005/04/python-windows-services.html


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 01:04:32 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:04:32 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> On Feb 16, 1:28 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> It's probably Very Good, but one Microsoft-thing one should be aware of: using
>> WMI functionality generally starts up a background WMI service...
> 
> "Probably"?

That means that since you say it's fantastic, it's probably very good. 
"Probably" is a way to qualify the statement. Based on your earlier and current 
quite emotional mode of expression I wouldn't take your word for an evaluation.


> You haven't even used the module but you felt the need to
> contribute anyway?

Yes, since I did not contribute about the module, but rather about the 
functionality that it uses, which you didn't mention in your otherwise excellent 
reply to the OP.


> And I see that my suggestion is "probably" a security concern too.

Yeah. It has nothing to do with the module, though. Only with Microsoft's WMI.


> Would it be too much to ask for you to provide
> something other than unrelated anecdotes as evidence to support these
> claims?

Google it.

E.g. <url: http://www.google.com/search?wmi+exploit>.

Other words and search engines might turn up other things, but the description 
of not a security "hole" but a security "crater" seems to me to indicate that 
it's not 100% secure.


> Or perhaps produce an alternative solution[1] for the OP
> instead of shitting over a working solution?

Oh yes, the confusion that technical facts are somehow an expression of personal 
feelings and social matters, and can be chosen as one pleases, hence, that 
providing a fact or pointing out a possibility that is unwanted, is "shitting".

 From my point of view that's stupid.

But I also think that apart from your "shitting" on me (and there the analogy is 
more apt, it's not about technical facts) it's great that you provide the kind 
of help that you did, pointing out a probably very good module that it seems 
gives the required functionality, and giving an URL.


[snip further speculative insults]


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 01:42:04 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:42:04 -0800
Subject: Looking for a Compiled Demo of MPL (matplotlib) Graphics
Message-ID: <hldent$nb5$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Does anyone know where I can find a compiled demo that uses MPL 
graphics? I'd like, if possible, a Win version whose size is less than 
10M, so that I can send it via e-mail, if necessary. It should use plot, 
so that someone can manipulate the plot with the navigation controls. At 
this point, I have no idea if that method is the fundamental graph tool 
or not. I suspect it is.

If a mailable demo isn't available, maybe there's a web site that one 
can download such examples from?


From timr at probo.com  Tue Feb 16 01:58:17 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:58:17 -0800
Subject: Few Small Questions Regarding CGI
References: <631b0785-38db-4c12-a82a-7b11e2235e23@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <iegkn51bdel0ksr9gprq1ugf4g06bh4g5u@4ax.com>

joy99 <subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I am trying to learn CGI. I was checking Python Docs. There are
>multiple modules. Which one to start with?

Well, it seems to me that the first place to start is the built-in CGI
module, in "cgi.py".  I'm not aware of any other CGI-based modules in the
standard library.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 02:14:32 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 23:14:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
Message-ID: <52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 12:53?am, "Rhodri James" <rho... at wildebst.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:07:35 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gv... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hy, first thanks for your response!
> > Well I am thinkin on coding in MPEG4/10, but I would just encode the
> > video in that encoding,
> > then stream it with VLC and save the video file on my disc. Then I
> > would play it with my player....
>
> I think you're misunderstanding what VLC does here. ?Saving the video file ?
> should preserve format by default; you may be able save it out in YUV ?
> format (I don't have a copy on this machine to check), but that will take ?
> up ludicrous amounts of disc space and you'd still have to write a byte ?
> reader for it. ?If you do do that, you have lost any chance of knowing ?
> whether a frame was an I or P frame in the original format, not that it ?
> matters anyway by that point.
>
> MPEG-4/10 is hard to write efficient decoders for, and I have to admit I ?
> wouldn't do it in Python. ?You'd be better off writing a wrapper for one ?
> of the existing MP4 libraries.
>
> --
> Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


Hm, well I see that and now I am thinking of using reference software
for MPEG4/10 which is written in c++  http://iphome.hhi.de/suehring/tml/
just to use it as a decoder on my client side, save the file in that
format and then play it in my player using pyffmpeg
http://code.google.com/p/pyffmpeg/ and just manipulate frames in that
clip-I think that could be possible....am I right? Thanks for your
help!


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:16:01 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:16:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Union of class variables
Message-ID: <07320890-98ae-4b11-b6c8-f8ab5b43dd43@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Is possible to get a third class with the class variables of another
two classes?

--------
class A:
    foo = 1

class B:
    bar = 2
--------


From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:28:12 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:28:12 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:29:05 +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
> 
>> However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a
>> script in there, how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within
>> the database subdirectory? This fails:
>>     from tools.logutils import logger
> 
> Sounds like you need to ensure that the top level directory needs to be 
> added to your PYTHONPATH.
> 
> Do you need instructions to do this?
> 

Hi Steve,


thanks, i think i know how to add the top level directory to the PYTHONPATH.

I'm however looking further into the suggestion of ssteinerX to use a
setup.py file to add the tools utility scripts to the pythonpath.
In the near future, another person will be helping me with programming
and thus, i want to make sure the structure is usable by other people
than myself.

Furthermore, i'm thinking if it wouldn't be cleaner to make such a setup.py
file per script, at least the bigger, more important scripts.
Now my structure is like this:

python_scripts
|
|-->trunk
......|-----> all scripts
......|-----> tools

The python_scripts directory and subdirs are versioned via SVN.
I think these steps would help:

1. Make a package of tools.
2. Put the bigger scripts in a seperate directory also using a setup.py file.
3. If possible, put the other scripts that somehow belong together in a seperate
directory. Names need to be more clear but i'm just illustrating a point.

python_scripts
|
|-->trunk
......|-----> my big script 1
................|-----> setup.py
......|-----> my big script 2
................|-----> setup.py
......|-----> database
................|-----> database script 1
................|-----> database script 2
......|-----> tools
................|-----> setup.py

Does that look like a clear structure?

Thanks,
Benedict




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:38:00 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:38:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> it's great that you provide the kind
> of help that you did, pointing out a probably very good module that it seems
> gives the required functionality, and giving an URL.

Yes, because that's _actually helping people_ and not just
contributing the usual self-serving pontificating nonsense that just
_flows_ from your goddamn mouth like a river of effluent
psuedotruths.

If you really wanted to help you would've cited _actual security
flaws_ in your first response  to me, instead of hand waving us away
to once again do the leg work of verification. Based on your postings
here, you regularly don't have the time or inclination to back up some
of the bizarre claims you make. It would actually improve the signal
in this channel a lot if you just chose not to make those posts at all.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:40:22 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Union of class variables
References: <07320890-98ae-4b11-b6c8-f8ab5b43dd43@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0ab616a3-f507-487e-abb5-be0929d05117@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 6:16?pm, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is possible to get a third class with the class variables of another
> two classes?
>
> --------
> class A:
> ? ? foo = 1
>
> class B:
> ? ? bar = 2
> --------

Through multiple inheritance?

  >>> class C(A, B):
  ...   pass
  ...
  >>> C.foo
  1
  >>> C.bar
  2


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 03:52:37 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:52:37 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hldmgh$ahc$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* alex23:
> "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> it's great that you provide the kind
>> of help that you did, pointing out a probably very good module that it seems
>> gives the required functionality, and giving an URL.
> 
> Yes, because that's _actually helping people_ and not just
> contributing the usual self-serving pontificating nonsense that just
> _flows_ from your goddamn mouth like a river of effluent
> psuedotruths.

That's an off-topic personal attack, and it's completely untrue.

You're wasting bandwidth.


> If you really wanted to help you would've cited _actual security
> flaws_ in your first response  to me, instead of hand waving us away
> to once again do the leg work of verification.

Posting two ranting and raving articles complaining about 1 (one) line or so in 
an earlier article, just because you personally wouldn't want to know that, 
that's a total waste of the reader's time.

Disregarding the negative emotional adjectives you add everywhere, it's a good 
heuristic to post what you would want to know.

I would want to know that a service is started, that it's designed for net based 
administration by Microsoft, and that so it might constitute a security risk.

And so I added that information, each point of which is relevant. If you don't 
want to know about the "probably" little thing you can just skim over it. If 
you're unable to do that then something's wrong with you.


> Based on your postings
> here, you regularly don't have the time or inclination to back up some
> of the bizarre claims you make. It would actually improve the signal
> in this channel a lot if you just chose not to make those posts at all.

That an off-topic personal attack, and it's completely untrue.

Another poster (not me) has described you in an article here as a sockpuppet 
(false identity being in reality another poster here) and a troll; I believe at 
least the troll bit.

It would reduce the noise level a bit if you stopped contributing noise like above.


Cheers,

- Alf


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Feb 16 03:55:50 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:55:50 +0100
Subject: Printing with raw_input
References: <c992698b-c161-4df1-9dcd-2dadbe0269c3@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<hlb6j7$jl9$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d78cb048-338d-4eef-a5be-d971e65f43cf@f15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlbda7$73r$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<d4ab53de1002150511r2686a97cudb886f9688b4737e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hldmim$dev$1@ger.gmane.org>

Shashwat Anand wrote:

> raw_input uses sys.stderr I guess ?

I had a look at the C code, but it's a bit confusing.

If I'm reading it correctly the prompt is written to the "real" stderr if 
and only if sys.stdin and sys.stdout are attached to a terminal.

$ python -c"raw_input('prompt\n')" 2>tmp.txt
foo
$ cat tmp.txt
prompt
$ python -c"raw_input('prompt\n')" 2>tmp.txt | cat
foo
prompt
$ cat tmp.txt

I wonder if that is intentional.

Peter




From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 03:59:19 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:59:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Union of class variables [Solved]
References: <07320890-98ae-4b11-b6c8-f8ab5b43dd43@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<0ab616a3-f507-487e-abb5-be0929d05117@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a1b9ed21-e904-4944-9973-73c322b3b21f@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 16 feb, 08:40, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 6:16?pm, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is possible to get a third class with the class variables of another
> > two classes?
>
> > --------
> > class A:
> > ? ? foo = 1
>
> > class B:
> > ? ? bar = 2
> > --------
>
> Through multiple inheritance?
>
> ? >>> class C(A, B):
> ? ... ? pass
> ? ...
> ? >>> C.foo
> ? 1
> ? >>> C.bar
> ? 2

Yes! It solves the problem :) Thanks!


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 16 04:01:08 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:01:08 +1100
Subject: Union of class variables
References: <07320890-98ae-4b11-b6c8-f8ab5b43dd43@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871vgld06j.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> Is possible to get a third class with the class variables of another
> two classes?

Multiple inheritance is allowed in Python:

    class Baz(Foo, Bar):
        pass

However, it leads to complications that you likely don't want, e.g.
<URL:http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=246341>.

Is it *really* the case that the new class is best expressed by an IS-A
relationship to *both* the others? (?Every Baz IS-A Foo; every Baz IS-A
Bar?)

You should consider composition, instead. Decide which other class
represents the more general case of the new class, and give it
additional capabilities through a HAS-A relationship. (?Every Baz IS-A
Foo; every Baz HAS-A Bar?)

    class Baz(Foo):

        def __init__(self):
            self.bar = Bar()

That way, you keep the clarity of single inheritance and additional
capabilities are accessed through an attribute.

-- 
 \        ?Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code |
  `\     will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live.? ?John |
_o__)                                                         F. Woods |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 16 04:04:45 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:04:45 +1100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87wrydblg2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> writes:

> Yes, because that's _actually helping people_ and not just
> contributing the usual self-serving pontificating nonsense that just
> _flows_ from your goddamn mouth like a river of effluent psuedotruths.

I can't see what improvement you hope to achieve by sending something
like this. If, instead, you just want to vent cathartically, this isn't
the place to do it.

Please, don't send the above kind of vitriol to this public forum.
Better yet, compose it in your editor, bask in what you've written, then
delete it unsent.

-- 
 \        ?Kill myself? Killing myself is the last thing I'd ever do.? |
  `\                                            ?Homer, _The Simpsons_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From gawade.ninad at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 05:43:09 2010
From: gawade.ninad at gmail.com (danin)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:43:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: finding contents from string
Message-ID: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
        I am looking for particular solution. I am having one string
say:
string- "http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?
hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106178526636832397420.00047fb46fa8d02481f09&ll=20.730428,86.456909&spn=2.178194,3.526611&z=8
"
          and from this string  i need to extract value
-20.730428,86.456909. These value are dynamic so i cant use filter. So
can anyone please tell me about how to do this.


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 05:57:59 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:57:59 +0000
Subject: finding contents from string
References: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2635xjvm0.fsf@googlemail.com>

danin <gawade.ninad at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi all,
>         I am looking for particular solution. I am having one string
> say:
> string- "http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?
> hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106178526636832397420.00047fb46fa8d02481f09&ll=20.730428,86.456909&spn=2.178194,3.526611&z=8
> "
>           and from this string  i need to extract value
> -20.730428,86.456909. These value are dynamic so i cant use filter. So
> can anyone please tell me about how to do this.

In Python 2.5:

>>> import urlparse
>>> url='http://www.example.com/foo?bar=42&spam=eggs'
>>> parsed_url = urlparse.urlparse(url)
>>> parsed_url.query
'bar=42&spam=eggs'
>>> import cgi
>>> parsed_query = cgi.parse_qs(parsed_url.query)
>>> parsed_query
{'bar': ['42'], 'spam': ['eggs']}

In Python >= 2.6, parse_qs lives in the urlparse module as well.

-- 
Arnaud


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Feb 16 06:00:06 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:00:06 +0100
Subject: finding contents from string
References: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hldtrn$dg5$02$1@news.t-online.com>

danin wrote:

> Hi all,
>         I am looking for particular solution. I am having one string
> say:
> string- "http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?
> 
hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106178526636832397420.00047fb46fa8d02481f09&ll=20.730428,86.456909&spn=2.178194,3.526611&z=8
> "
>           and from this string  i need to extract value
> -20.730428,86.456909. 

Where does the "-" come from?

> These value are dynamic so i cant use filter. 

I don't understand.

> So can anyone please tell me about how to do this.

>>> from urlparse import urlparse, parse_qs
>>> parse_qs(urlparse(string).query)["ll"][0]
'20.730428,86.456909'

Peter


From spam.buster at web.de  Tue Feb 16 06:25:36 2010
From: spam.buster at web.de (Lars Behrens)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:25:36 +0100
Subject: finding contents from string
References: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hldvbg$la2$1@news.belwue.de>

danin wrote:

> can anyone please tell me about how to do this.

Now come on, you have to give a *bit* more information. What have you done 
so far? What did you plan? What are the rules for finding the string?

-- 
Cheerz Lars


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 07:16:58 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:16:58 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters
Message-ID: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I normally use IDLE on Win, but recently needed to go to command prompt 
to see all error messages. When I did, I was greeted by a host of 
deprecation and Numpy messages before things got running. The program 
otherwise functioned OK, after I found the problem I was after. Are 
these messages a warning to get to the next update of numpy?

I would guess that updating to a higher update does not mean I need to 
remove the old one, correct?

In general for libraries like numpy or scipy, I use win32 updates, but I 
see win32-p3 updates too on download pages. Since I may be distributing 
this program to p3 machines, will I need to provide the win32-p3 updates 
to those users?



From news123 at free.fr  Tue Feb 16 07:18:16 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:18:16 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Thanks for your answers,




The security wouldn't be a concern, as I would run while being only
accessible by trusted hosts.

I don't use the script often, so if it would start a WMI service during
runtime and stop it afterwards it would be fine.

I just wonder whether installing another 3rd party package for just
listing all services s worth the effort.


In my current case I'll go probably for parsing the output of
"sc.exe query" or I'll traverse the registry.

currently I just want to get a list of the names of the running services.


bye


N



Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * alex23:
>> News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>>
>>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>>
>>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>>> as well.
>>
>> I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].
> 
> It's probably Very Good, but one Microsoft-thing one should be aware of:
> using WMI functionality generally starts up a background WMI service...
> 
> Similarly, starting the standard clipboard viewer (discontinued in
> Windows Vista) starts up a silly copy-clipboard-contents-over-network
> service.
> 
> On a low-range machine the WMI service can be a resource concern.
> 
> I don't know whether the WMI service is a security concern (it probably
> is, considering IIS and anything Microsoft+Network and that WMI is meant
> to administrate machines over network, it's an enterprise thing not a
> personal computer user thing), but the clipboard service is, as I
> recall, a concern.
> 
> 
>>     >>> import wmi
>>     >>> c = wmi.WMI()
>>     >>> services = c.Win32_Service()
>>     >>> s = services[0]
>>     >>> s
>>     <_wmi_object: \\LIB-D5NYF1S\root
>> \cimv2:Win32_Service.Name="Alerter">
>>     >>> s.properties
>>     {u'DisplayName': None, u'ServiceSpecificExitCode': None, u'State':
>> None, u'Syste
>>     mName': None, u'ErrorControl': None, u'Status': None,
>> u'ProcessId': None, u'Desc
>>     ription': None, u'Started': None, u'AcceptStop': None,
>> u'CheckPoint': None, u'Pa
>>     thName': None, u'WaitHint': None, u'Name': None, u'InstallDate':
>> None, u'Caption
>>     ': None, u'StartMode': None, u'DesktopInteract': None,
>> u'ServiceType': None, u'T
>>     agId': None, u'StartName': None, u'AcceptPause': None,
>> u'CreationClassName': Non
>>     e, u'SystemCreationClassName': None, u'ExitCode': None}
>>     >>> s.Name
>>     u'Alerter'
>>     >>> s.Started
>>     False
>>     >>> s.ServiceType
>>     u'Share Process'
>>
>> 1: http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/index.html
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Alf


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 07:19:15 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:19:15 -0800
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
Message-ID: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>

See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.


From vaayu at ymail.com  Tue Feb 16 07:25:45 2010
From: vaayu at ymail.com (Praveen Boppana)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:55:45 +0530 (IST)
Subject: finding contents from string
In-Reply-To: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <39d959be-5b7f-442b-92d2-bc73b877b578@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <66498.7222.qm@web95303.mail.in2.yahoo.com>

It looks like you want to extract the query parameters from standard url's. There is a standard Python module to accomplish this:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/module-urlparse.html



________________________________
From: danin <gawade.ninad at gmail.com>
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Tue, 16 February, 2010 4:13:09 PM
Subject: finding contents from string

Hi all,
        I am looking for particular solution. I am having one string
say:
string- "http://maps.google.co.in/maps/ms?
hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=106178526636832397420.00047fb46fa8d02481f09&ll=20.730428,86.456909&spn=2.178194,3.526611&z=8
"
          and from this string  i need to extract value
-20.730428,86.456909. These value are dynamic so i cant use filter. So
can anyone please tell me about how to do this.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Feb 16 07:29:36 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:29:36 +0000
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B7A8FB0.2060901@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/02/2010 12:18, News123 wrote:
> I don't use the script often, so if it would start a WMI service during
> runtime and stop it afterwards it would be fine.

FWIW -- your other considerations notwithstanding -- I'm not aware
of WMI having this effect. Generally you can assume that the WMI
services are running (or not, if someone's shut them off) but
I've never heard of them being started up by virtue of a call
to the WMI subsystem and then stopped afterwards.

That said, I'd be interested if someone did have a pointer for this;
worth putting a caveat in the docs if that were the case.

TJG


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 07:37:46 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:37:46 +0000
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <m21vgljqzp.fsf@googlemail.com>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.

Here are a few ways.

>>> a = [1,4,9,3]
>>> max_index = max(xrange(len(a)), key=a.__getitem__)
>>> max_index
2
>>> # Or:
... max_index = max((n, i) for i, n in enumerate(a))[1]
>>> max_index
2
>>> # Or:
... from itertools import *
>>> max_index = max(izip(a, count()))[1]
>>> max_index
2

-- 
Arnaud


From steve at lonetwin.net  Tue Feb 16 07:38:09 2010
From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:08:09 +0530
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net>

On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.

The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?

cheers,
- steve


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 07:41:36 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:41:36 +0000
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<m21vgljqzp.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <m2wrydic8v.fsf@googlemail.com>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:
>
>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>
> Here are a few ways.

[...]

My copy past went wrond and I forgot the first one:

>>> a = [1,4,9,3]
>>> max_index = a.index(max(a))
>>> max_index
2

-- 
Arnaud


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 07:48:09 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:48:09 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Tim Golden:
> On 16/02/2010 12:18, News123 wrote:
>> I don't use the script often, so if it would start a WMI service during
>> runtime and stop it afterwards it would be fine.
> 
> FWIW -- your other considerations notwithstanding -- I'm not aware
> of WMI having this effect. Generally you can assume that the WMI
> services are running (or not, if someone's shut them off) but
> I've never heard of them being started up by virtue of a call
> to the WMI subsystem and then stopped afterwards.
> 
> That said, I'd be interested if someone did have a pointer for this;
> worth putting a caveat in the docs if that were the case.
> 
> TJG

I just googled the filename from memory, found

   <url: http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/wmiprvse.exe.html>

Don't know if I've disabled it because invoking wmic didn't produce it.

Uh, wait, since it hosts the provider service(s), perhaps...

Yes, 'wmic service list brief' which actually retrieves some information (I 
guess it can be anything, I remembered this from listing process command lines) 
started an [wmprvse.exe] process.

It terminated after the query/usage, but as I recall in some cases it doesn't.

I don't know how that works with programmatic access, but it's worth checking out.


Cheers,

- Alf


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Feb 16 08:01:26 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:01:26 +0000
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B7A9726.7080304@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/02/2010 12:48, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> I just googled the filename from memory, found
>
>     <url: http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/wmiprvse.exe.html>
>
> Don't know if I've disabled it because invoking wmic didn't produce it.
>
> Uh, wait, since it hosts the provider service(s), perhaps...
>
> Yes, 'wmic service list brief' which actually retrieves some information (I
> guess it can be anything, I remembered this from listing process command lines)
> started an [wmprvse.exe] process.
>
> It terminated after the query/usage, but as I recall in some cases it doesn't.
>
> I don't know how that works with programmatic access, but it's worth checking out.

Thanks. As I understand it, you're not talking about a *service* starting up
or shutting down; rather a *process* starting up etc., presumably controlled
by the underlying service?

I'll do some further research to see what's going on there.

TJG


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 08:51:22 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:51:22 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Tim Golden:
> On 16/02/2010 12:48, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> I just googled the filename from memory, found
>>
>>     <url: http://www.neuber.com/taskmanager/process/wmiprvse.exe.html>
>>
>> Don't know if I've disabled it because invoking wmic didn't produce it.
>>
>> Uh, wait, since it hosts the provider service(s), perhaps...
>>
>> Yes, 'wmic service list brief' which actually retrieves some 
>> information (I
>> guess it can be anything, I remembered this from listing process 
>> command lines)
>> started an [wmprvse.exe] process.
>>
>> It terminated after the query/usage, but as I recall in some cases it 
>> doesn't.
>>
>> I don't know how that works with programmatic access, but it's worth 
>> checking out.
> 
> Thanks. As I understand it, you're not talking about a *service* 
> starting up
> or shutting down; rather a *process* starting up etc., presumably 
> controlled
> by the underlying service?

It doesn't seem to provide ordinary Windows "service"s, but it's a bit unclear 
since e.g. the URL above says


<quote>
Beginning with Windows XP, WMI resides in a shared service host with several 
other services. To avoid stopping all the services when a provider fails, 
providers are loaded into a separate host process named Wmiprvse.exe. Multiple 
instances of Wmiprvse.exe can run at the same time under different accounts: 
LocalSystem, NetworkService or LocalService. The WMI core WinMgmt.exe is loaded 
into the shared Local Service host named Svchost.exe.
Note: wmiprvsw.exe is the Sasser worm!

Note: The wmiprvse.exe file is located in the folder C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem. 
In other cases, wmiprvse.exe is a virus, spyware, trojan or worm! Check this 
with Security Task Manager.
</quote>


Checking for ordinary Windows services:

<example>
C:\test> (wmic service list >nul) & tasklist /svc /fi "imagename eq wmiprvse.exe"

Image Name                   PID Services
========================= ====== =============================================
wmiprvse.exe                1076 N/A

C:\test> _
</example>



> I'll do some further research to see what's going on there.

Cheers,

- Alf (is this off-topic for the group?)


From leo at lspace.org  Tue Feb 16 08:56:45 2010
From: leo at lspace.org (Leo Breebaart)
Date: 16 Feb 2010 13:56:45 GMT
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>

Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:

> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> wrote:
>
> > I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
> > FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
> > (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
> > FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
> > [...]
> > But, since this information is the same for every instance of
> > each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
> > the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
> > these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
> > can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
> 
> Metaclasses to the rescue!:
> 
> class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
>     def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
>         klass =3D type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
>         klass.template_filename =3D "%s.tmpl" % name
>         klass.template_body =3D read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
>         return klass
> 
> class Foo(object):
>     __metaclass__ =3D WithTemplateAttrs
>     #rest of class body here
> 
> Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
> automatically get the attributes generated.

Thanks for the feedback! I am thrilled that an actual real-life
issue I'm having may be resolvable by metaclasses (which so far
I've only admired from afar but never considered relevant to my
day-to-day work), but unfortunately I'm still struggling to get
this to work.

If I add your code, what happens is that the Foo class will try
to read "Foo.tmpl", which does not exist -- it is only the
derived classes FooA etc, that need to execute this code, not Foo
itself.

And actually that makes sense -- I think my problem was not too
clearly thought out to begin with. Of course it's not possible to
associate a single template_body with the Foo class, it will be a
different template for each derived class. So at best I need to
associate your metaclass with each derived class, but at that
point I might as well just read the template in the __init__()
method with __class__.__name__, and use lazy evaluation / caching
to avoid doing the actual file-reading work more than once.

I think.

-- 
Leo Breebaart  <leo at lspace.org>


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Feb 16 08:56:48 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:56:48 +0000
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hle86u$28e$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/16/10 13:51, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
<cut>
> - Alf (is this off-topic for the group?)
Strictly speaking yes, but I do find it interesting and there is nothing 
wrong with ignoring posts you don't like to read.

-- 
mph



From rludwinowski at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 09:37:00 2010
From: rludwinowski at gmail.com (rludwinowski)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 06:37:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Implicit __init__ execution in multiple inheritance
Message-ID: <776abfc7-f57b-4630-9077-8ac1e4ee1c6e@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        print("A__init__")

class B:
    def __init__(self):
        print("B__init__")

class C(A, B):
    pass

C()

>> A__init__

Why __init__ class B will not be automatic executed?


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 09:38:51 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:38:51 +0000
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>

Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> writes:

> Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
>> > FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
>> > (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
>> > FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
>> > [...]
>> > But, since this information is the same for every instance of
>> > each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
>> > the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
>> > these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
>> > can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
>> 
>> Metaclasses to the rescue!:
>> 
>> class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
>>     def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
>>         klass =3D type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
>>         klass.template_filename =3D "%s.tmpl" % name
>>         klass.template_body =3D read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
>>         return klass
>> 
>> class Foo(object):
>>     __metaclass__ =3D WithTemplateAttrs
>>     #rest of class body here
>> 
>> Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
>> automatically get the attributes generated.
>
> Thanks for the feedback! I am thrilled that an actual real-life
> issue I'm having may be resolvable by metaclasses (which so far
> I've only admired from afar but never considered relevant to my
> day-to-day work), but unfortunately I'm still struggling to get
> this to work.
>
> If I add your code, what happens is that the Foo class will try
> to read "Foo.tmpl", which does not exist -- it is only the
> derived classes FooA etc, that need to execute this code, not Foo
> itself.
>
> And actually that makes sense -- I think my problem was not too
> clearly thought out to begin with. Of course it's not possible to
> associate a single template_body with the Foo class, it will be a
> different template for each derived class. So at best I need to
> associate your metaclass with each derived class, but at that
> point I might as well just read the template in the __init__()
> method with __class__.__name__, and use lazy evaluation / caching
> to avoid doing the actual file-reading work more than once.
>
> I think.

Descriptors to the rescue :)

def read_body_from(filename):
    print "** loading content **"
    return "<content of '%s'>" % filename

# This is a kind of class property
class TemplateFilename(object):
    def __get__(self, obj, cls):
        return "%s.tmpl" % cls.__name__

# And this is a kind of cached class property
class TemplateBody(object):
    def __get__(self, obj, cls):
        try:
            return cls._body
        except AttributeError:
            cls._body = read_body_from(cls.template_filename)
            return cls._body

class Foo(object):
    template_filename = TemplateFilename()
    template_body = TemplateBody()

class FooA(Foo):
   pass

class FooB(Foo):
   pass

# In action:
>>> FooA.template_filename
'FooA.tmpl'
>>> FooB.template_filename
'FooB.tmpl'
>>> FooA.template_body
** loading content **
"<content of 'FooA.tmpl'>"
>>> FooA.template_body
"<content of 'FooA.tmpl'>"
>>> foob = FooB()
>>> foob.template_filename
'FooB.tmpl'
>>> foob.template_body
** loading content **
"<content of 'FooB.tmpl'>"
>>> foob.template_body
"<content of 'FooB.tmpl'>"

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 09:47:32 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:47:32 +0000
Subject: Implicit __init__ execution in multiple inheritance
References: <776abfc7-f57b-4630-9077-8ac1e4ee1c6e@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2ljeti6ez.fsf@googlemail.com>

rludwinowski <rludwinowski at gmail.com> writes:

> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print("A__init__")
>
> class B:
>     def __init__(self):
>         print("B__init__")
>
> class C(A, B):
>     pass
>
> C()
>
>>> A__init__
>
> Why __init__ class B will not be automatic executed?

Because it's documented behaviour?  By default, at initialisation, an
instance of C will go up the method resolution order and only execture
the first __init__() method found.  If you want to change this, you have
to do it explicitely within the __init__ method(s) of the parent
class(es).  E.g. try this (assuming Python 3 syntax):

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        super().__init__()
        print("A__init__")

class B:
    def __init__(self):
        super().__init__()
        print("B__init__")

class C(A, B):
    pass

C()


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 09:51:34 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:51:34 -0500
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>


On Feb 16, 2010, at 3:28 AM, Benedict Verheyen wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:29:05 +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
>> 
>>> However, when i make a subdirectory, for example database and put a
>>> script in there, how would i import logutils or mailtutils from within
>>> the database subdirectory? This fails:
>>>    from tools.logutils import logger
>> 
>> Sounds like you need to ensure that the top level directory needs to be 
>> added to your PYTHONPATH.
>> 
>> Do you need instructions to do this?
>> 
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> 
> thanks, i think i know how to add the top level directory to the PYTHONPATH.
> 
> I'm however looking further into the suggestion of ssteinerX to use a
> setup.py file to add the tools utility scripts to the pythonpath.
> In the near future, another person will be helping me with programming
> and thus, i want to make sure the structure is usable by other people
> than myself.
> 
> Furthermore, i'm thinking if it wouldn't be cleaner to make such a setup.py
> file per script, at least the bigger, more important scripts.
> Now my structure is like this:
> 
> python_scripts
> |
> |-->trunk
> ......|-----> all scripts
> ......|-----> tools
> 
> The python_scripts directory and subdirs are versioned via SVN.
> I think these steps would help:
> 
> 1. Make a package of tools.
> 2. Put the bigger scripts in a seperate directory also using a setup.py file.
> 3. If possible, put the other scripts that somehow belong together in a seperate
> directory. Names need to be more clear but i'm just illustrating a point.
> 
> python_scripts
> |
> |-->trunk
> ......|-----> my big script 1
> ................|-----> setup.py
> ......|-----> my big script 2
> ................|-----> setup.py
> ......|-----> database
> ................|-----> database script 1
> ................|-----> database script 2
> ......|-----> tools
> ................|-----> setup.py
> 
> Does that look like a clear structure?

No.

Make one setup.py at the top, put related scripts (like database) into separate sub-modules, so they can all be imported off a common 'trunk' as you have it above i.e. as trunk.database.xxx.

Then use entry points for any command line scripts.

Slightly harder, to setup initially but much cleaner to use and maintain and, it all installs with one call to setup.py develop.

S



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb 16 10:00:28 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:00:28 +0100
Subject: Using class attributes
In-Reply-To: <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>
	<m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7AB30C.2020806@sequans.com>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> writes:
>
>   
>> Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>>
>>     
>>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
>>>> FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
>>>> (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
>>>> FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
>>>> [...]
>>>> But, since this information is the same for every instance of
>>>> each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
>>>> the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
>>>> these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
>>>> can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
>>>>         
>>> Metaclasses to the rescue!:
>>>
>>> class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
>>>     def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
>>>         klass =3D type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
>>>         klass.template_filename =3D "%s.tmpl" % name
>>>         klass.template_body =3D read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
>>>         return klass
>>>
>>> class Foo(object):
>>>     __metaclass__ =3D WithTemplateAttrs
>>>     #rest of class body here
>>>
>>> Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
>>> automatically get the attributes generated.
>>>       
>> Thanks for the feedback! I am thrilled that an actual real-life
>> issue I'm having may be resolvable by metaclasses (which so far
>> I've only admired from afar but never considered relevant to my
>> day-to-day work), but unfortunately I'm still struggling to get
>> this to work.
>>
>> If I add your code, what happens is that the Foo class will try
>> to read "Foo.tmpl", which does not exist -- it is only the
>> derived classes FooA etc, that need to execute this code, not Foo
>> itself.
>>
>> And actually that makes sense -- I think my problem was not too
>> clearly thought out to begin with. Of course it's not possible to
>> associate a single template_body with the Foo class, it will be a
>> different template for each derived class. So at best I need to
>> associate your metaclass with each derived class, but at that
>> point I might as well just read the template in the __init__()
>> method with __class__.__name__, and use lazy evaluation / caching
>> to avoid doing the actual file-reading work more than once.
>>
>> I think.
>>     
>
> Descriptors to the rescue :)
>
> def read_body_from(filename):
>     print "** loading content **"
>     return "<content of '%s'>" % filename
>
> # This is a kind of class property
> class TemplateFilename(object):
>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>         return "%s.tmpl" % cls.__name__
>
> # And this is a kind of cached class property
> class TemplateBody(object):
>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>         try:
>             return cls._body
>         except AttributeError:
>             cls._body = read_body_from(cls.template_filename)
>             return cls._body
>
> class Foo(object):
>     template_filename = TemplateFilename()
>     template_body = TemplateBody()
>
> class FooA(Foo):
>    pass
>
> class FooB(Foo):
>    pass
>
> # In action:
>   
>>>> FooA.template_filename
>>>>         
> 'FooA.tmpl'
>   
>>>> FooB.template_filename
>>>>         
> 'FooB.tmpl'
>   
>>>> FooA.template_body
>>>>         
> ** loading content **
> "<content of 'FooA.tmpl'>"
>   
>>>> FooA.template_body
>>>>         
> "<content of 'FooA.tmpl'>"
>   
>>>> foob = FooB()
>>>> foob.template_filename
>>>>         
> 'FooB.tmpl'
>   
>>>> foob.template_body
>>>>         
> ** loading content **
> "<content of 'FooB.tmpl'>"
>   
>>>> foob.template_body
>>>>         
> "<content of 'FooB.tmpl'>"
>
> HTH
>
>   
While all these proposals are giving interesting technical anwsers to 
the OP problem, I think that the OP original code is still the best (_imo_).

  class Foo(object):
      def __init__(self):
          self.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % self.__class__.__name__
          self.template_body = read_body_from(self.template_filename)


That is true  the same attributes are defined for every instance, but, 
honestly, who cares ? (unless you target the best class design 2010 
price :-) )
This solution beat the others in terms of simplicity and readability.

It's still usefull to train your mind with decorators and metaclasses 
though, they can save your life eventually.

JM


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb 16 10:12:36 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:12:36 +0100
Subject: Implicit __init__ execution in multiple inheritance
In-Reply-To: <m2ljeti6ez.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <776abfc7-f57b-4630-9077-8ac1e4ee1c6e@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2ljeti6ez.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4b7ab5e5$0$23314$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Arnaud Delobelle a ?crit :
> rludwinowski <rludwinowski at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> class A:
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         print("A__init__")
>>
>> class B:
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         print("B__init__")
>>
>> class C(A, B):
>>     pass
>>
>> C()
>>
>>>> A__init__
>> Why __init__ class B will not be automatic executed?
> 
> Because it's documented behaviour?  By default, at initialisation, an
> instance of C will go up the method resolution order and only execture
> the first __init__() method found.

Note to the OP : Python's "methods" are attributes, so the normal 
attribute lookup rules apply - which is why the lookup stops at the 
first (in _mro_ order) '__init__' method found.



From paul at subsignal.org  Tue Feb 16 10:14:22 2010
From: paul at subsignal.org (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Paul_K=F6lle?=)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:14:22 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <1266271943.4299.2887.camel@brain>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
	<hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1266271943.4299.2887.camel@brain>
Message-ID: <hlecoe$nh7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Am 15.02.2010 23:12, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
[...]
>> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior
>> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit
>> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
>> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.
>
> Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check if
> your "implementation" comply with the "interface".
Which is a good thing IMO ;)

> Here is one solution I came up with.
[...]
Can you post working code? It's not clear what "pbus" is and how it works.

cheers
  Paul


> What do you think? Any obvious pitfalls (besides reinventing something)?
>
> Please keep in mind that syntax/api is not "done" or anything its just
> an concept presentation.
>
> Thanks,
> Florian
>
>
>




From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 10:15:49 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:15:49 +0000
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net> <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.2614.1266332443.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m2hbphi53u.fsf@googlemail.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> writes:
[...]
> While all these proposals are giving interesting technical anwsers to
> the OP problem, I think that the OP original code is still the best
> (_imo_).
>
>  class Foo(object):
>      def __init__(self):
>          self.template_filename = "%s.tmpl" % self.__class__.__name__
>          self.template_body = read_body_from(self.template_filename)
>
>
> That is true  the same attributes are defined for every instance, but,
> honestly, who cares ? (unless you target the best class design 2010
> price :-) )

You might care if you have many instances but few classes, and the size
of template_body is significant.  Although with this design it is
possible to cache template bodies within the 'read_body_from' function
if necessary.

Also I was under the impression that the OP wanted these attribute to be
accessible from the class object as well.

-- 
Arnaud


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 10:30:29 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:30:29 -0600
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters
In-Reply-To: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hledmk$qf9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-16 06:16 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> I normally use IDLE on Win, but recently needed to go to command prompt
> to see all error messages. When I did, I was greeted by a host of
> deprecation and Numpy messages before things got running. The program
> otherwise functioned OK, after I found the problem I was after. Are
> these messages a warning to get to the next update of numpy?
>
> I would guess that updating to a higher update does not mean I need to
> remove the old one, correct?
>
> In general for libraries like numpy or scipy, I use win32 updates, but I
> see win32-p3 updates too on download pages. Since I may be distributing
> this program to p3 machines, will I need to provide the win32-p3 updates
> to those users?

You will definitely want to ask these questions on the numpy-discussion mailing 
list. They are numpy-specific. Please copy-and-paste the messages that you get.

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 10:34:51 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:34:51 -0800
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
In-Reply-To: <m2wrydic8v.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<m21vgljqzp.fsf@googlemail.com> <m2wrydic8v.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hledus$4nq$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/16/2010 4:41 AM, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Arnaud Delobelle<arnodel at googlemail.com>  writes:
>
>> "W. eWatson"<wolftracks at invalid.com>  writes:
>>
>>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>>
>> Here are a few ways.
>
> [...]
>
> My copy past went wrond and I forgot the first one:
>
>>>> a = [1,4,9,3]
>>>> max_index = a.index(max(a))
>>>> max_index
> 2
>
Ah, the good one for last! Thanks.


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 10:35:26 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:35:26 -0500
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <87wrydblg2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<a6e7c2a3-35a0-4488-a984-513c41e347af@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<hldcld$bk4$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<c1c25e37-d913-4667-aabf-e31dec75f447@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<87wrydblg2.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <7137165D-34E6-4015-AD09-C26CD9677E55@gmail.com>

On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Ben Finney wrote:

> Please, don't send the above kind of vitriol to this public forum.
> Better yet, compose it in your editor, bask in what you've written, then delete it unsent.

+1

If you kids want to have some sort of pissing-in-your-sockpuppet type of contest to see who can out-whatever each other, do it off-list and don't waste everyone else's time with.

What ever happened to "don't feed the trolls" ??  If you really believe someone's trolling, don't answer, block them, and move on.  

Providing a lengthy, well-reasoned reply only shows that they've pulled you into the troll pit for a fight with them, regardless of whether you're "right."

S



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 10:37:28 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:37:28 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/16/2010 7:30 AM, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-16 06:16 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>> I normally use IDLE on Win, but recently needed to go to command prompt
>> to see all error messages. When I did, I was greeted by a host of
>> deprecation and Numpy messages before things got running. The program
>> otherwise functioned OK, after I found the problem I was after. Are
>> these messages a warning to get to the next update of numpy?
>>
>> I would guess that updating to a higher update does not mean I need to
>> remove the old one, correct?
>>
>> In general for libraries like numpy or scipy, I use win32 updates, but I
>> see win32-p3 updates too on download pages. Since I may be distributing
>> this program to p3 machines, will I need to provide the win32-p3 updates
>> to those users?
>
> You will definitely want to ask these questions on the numpy-discussion
> mailing list. They are numpy-specific. Please copy-and-paste the
> messages that you get.
>
> http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists
>
Good idea, for the first part of this. I would think "In genera for ..." 
would be answerable here, but I'll give them both a shot.

I'll post what I find here, as a follow up.


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Feb 16 10:38:24 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:38:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python Optimization
References: <b60161f7-7457-4699-8c47-7a57be26b6b0@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<363498c7-3575-4f1e-ad53-d9cd10c8da2c@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<88a7ff43-3f1d-4e30-ad50-59b6c2f215f7@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5f3d2058-40ec-415e-8ad4-7e28b98fb304@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 14 Feb, 19:41, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I ditto the profiling recommendation.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/profile.html

(To the original inquirer...) Try this, too:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSpeed/Profiling

If you have the tools, it's a lot easier than scanning through tables
of times.

Paul


From steve at holdenweb.com  Tue Feb 16 10:54:00 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:54:00 -0500
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlef3k$n5$1@ger.gmane.org>

Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
[...]
>> I'll do some further research to see what's going on there.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Alf (is this off-topic for the group?)

It's gone a lot further off than this without anyone complaining.  I
think your experiences to date should convince you that you can rely on
being told when you drift too far off-topic :)

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:35:07 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:35:07 -0600
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters
In-Reply-To: <hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlehfp$a4k$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-16 09:37 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 2/16/2010 7:30 AM, Robert Kern wrote:
>> On 2010-02-16 06:16 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>> I normally use IDLE on Win, but recently needed to go to command prompt
>>> to see all error messages. When I did, I was greeted by a host of
>>> deprecation and Numpy messages before things got running. The program
>>> otherwise functioned OK, after I found the problem I was after. Are
>>> these messages a warning to get to the next update of numpy?
>>>
>>> I would guess that updating to a higher update does not mean I need to
>>> remove the old one, correct?
>>>
>>> In general for libraries like numpy or scipy, I use win32 updates, but I
>>> see win32-p3 updates too on download pages. Since I may be distributing
>>> this program to p3 machines, will I need to provide the win32-p3 updates
>>> to those users?
>>
>> You will definitely want to ask these questions on the numpy-discussion
>> mailing list. They are numpy-specific. Please copy-and-paste the
>> messages that you get.
>>
>> http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists
>>
> Good idea, for the first part of this. I would think "In genera for ..."
> would be answerable here, but I'll give them both a shot.

Both parts are very numpy/scipy-specific, trust me. The reason that numpy has 
binary releases for Pentium 3 machines is because we have SSE code of various 
levels due to our accelerated BLAS libraries. This is very rare outside of numpy 
and scipy.

And please provide the information that I asked for over in numpy-discussion.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:35:09 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:35:09 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlehft$aoc$1@ger.gmane.org>

ssteinerX at gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 16, 2010, at 3:28 AM, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
<snip>

>> python_scripts
>> |
>> |-->trunk
>> ......|-----> my big script 1
>> ................|-----> setup.py
>> ......|-----> my big script 2
>> ................|-----> setup.py
>> ......|-----> database
>> ................|-----> database script 1
>> ................|-----> database script 2
>> ......|-----> tools
>> ................|-----> setup.py
>>
>> Does that look like a clear structure?
> 
> No.
> 
> Make one setup.py at the top, put related scripts (like database) into separate sub-modules,
> so they can all be imported off a common 'trunk' as you have it above i.e. as trunk.database.xxx.
> 
> Then use entry points for any command line scripts.
> 
> Slightly harder, to setup initially but much cleaner to use and maintain and, it all installs with one call to setup.py develop.
> 
> S

Hhhm, i can see how it makes the maintenance cleaner.
However, in the case of a single setup.py, i will end up installing scripts on servers
that will never use them, only some.
As with making egg files for the bigger scripts, you will only install what's needed.
Then again, the script are small so in that respect it doesn't really matter.

How would i best distribute it? Via the single setup.py or building an egg from the
setup.py or plain copying the files to the server?
The code is company specific so nobody else will benefit from it.

Thanks,
Benedict




From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb 16 11:45:04 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:45:04 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <hlehft$aoc$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>	<EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>
	<hlehft$aoc$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B7ACB90.7070502@sequans.com>

Benedict Verheyen wrote:
> ssteinerX at gmail.com wrote:
>   
>> On Feb 16, 2010, at 3:28 AM, Benedict Verheyen wrote:
>>     
> <snip>
>
>   
>>> python_scripts
>>> |
>>> |-->trunk
>>> ......|-----> my big script 1
>>> ................|-----> setup.py
>>> ......|-----> my big script 2
>>> ................|-----> setup.py
>>> ......|-----> database
>>> ................|-----> database script 1
>>> ................|-----> database script 2
>>> ......|-----> tools
>>> ................|-----> setup.py
>>>
>>> Does that look like a clear structure?
>>>       
>> No.
>>
>> Make one setup.py at the top, put related scripts (like database) into separate sub-modules,
>> so they can all be imported off a common 'trunk' as you have it above i.e. as trunk.database.xxx.
>>
>> Then use entry points for any command line scripts.
>>
>> Slightly harder, to setup initially but much cleaner to use and maintain and, it all installs with one call to setup.py develop.
>>
>> S
>>     
>
> Hhhm, i can see how it makes the maintenance cleaner.
> However, in the case of a single setup.py, i will end up installing scripts on servers
> that will never use them, only some.
>   
You should care about this only if your scripts exceeed a faire amount 
of Ko.
Are you sure you've written Mo of python code ?

JM


From benedict.verheyen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:52:29 2010
From: benedict.verheyen at gmail.com (Benedict Verheyen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:52:29 +0100
Subject: how to structure a directory with many scripts and shared code
In-Reply-To: <4B7ACB90.7070502@sequans.com>
References: <mailman.2565.1266247761.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b79d343$0$8760$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hldkur$8s7$1@ger.gmane.org>	<EAE23F22-5212-4246-BAC5-91B102C42246@gmail.com>	<hlehft$aoc$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<4B7ACB90.7070502@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hleigc$e9f$1@ger.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Benedict Verheyen wrote:
<snip>

>> Hhhm, i can see how it makes the maintenance cleaner.
>> However, in the case of a single setup.py, i will end up installing
>> scripts on servers
>> that will never use them, only some.
>>   
> You should care about this only if your scripts exceeed a faire amount
> of Ko.
> Are you sure you've written Mo of python code ?
> 
> JM

Nope and i indicated that before:

"Then again, the script are small so in that respect it doesn't really matter."

Regards,
Benedict



From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 11:53:42 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:53:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<87eikmc9va.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <f4227e39-4678-483e-97b1-57136de730b7@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 2:17?am, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Minimock has wider usage and community, but I have some troubles using
> > it. Maybe I am wrong, but with minimock you always have to keep track
> > the order of imports in your test modules. Well, may be I just don't
> > understand fully how minimock works.
>
> I'm not sure why you think you need to keep track of the order of
> imports.
>
> Simply set up the mocks as you want them, in your fixtures; then, when
> tearing down your fixtures, use ?minimock.restore()? to restore the
> affected namespaces to their initial state.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ? ?? one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was |
> ? `\ ? ? ? ?that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?termination of their C programs.? ?Robert Firth |
> Ben Finney

Hi Ben!

See these two topics:
http://groups.google.com/group/minimock-dev/browse_thread/thread/bcbb3b7cc60eb96f
http://groups.google.com/group/minimock-dev/browse_thread/thread/c41cd996735ea1a6

There are special cases, which you have to be aware of, if you use
minimock.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb 16 11:59:59 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:59:59 -0500
Subject: Using class attributes
In-Reply-To: <7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <hleiu9$g2j$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/16/2010 8:56 AM, Leo Breebaart wrote:
> Chris Rebert<clp2 at rebertia.com>  writes:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Leo Breebaart<leo at lspace.org>  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a base class Foo with a number of derived classes FooA,
>>> FooB, FooC, etc. Each of these derived classes needs to read
>>> (upon initialisation) text from an associated template file
>>> FooA.tmpl, FooB.tmpl, FooC.tmpl, etc.
>>> [...]
>>> But, since this information is the same for every instance of
>>> each derived class, I was wondering if there was a way to achieve
>>> the same thing outside of the __init__ function, and just have
>>> these assignments be done as a class attribute (i.e. so that I
>>> can refer to FooA.template_body, etc.)
>>
>> Metaclasses to the rescue!:
>>
>> class WithTemplateAttrs(type):
>>      def __new__(cls, name, bases, dct):
>>          klass =3D type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dct)
>>          klass.template_filename =3D "%s.tmpl" % name
>>          klass.template_body =3D read_body_from(klass.template_filename)
>>          return klass
>>
>> class Foo(object):
>>      __metaclass__ =3D WithTemplateAttrs
>>      #rest of class body here
>>
>> Now just have FooA, FooB, etc. subclass Foo as before. They'll
>> automatically get the attributes generated.
>
> Thanks for the feedback! I am thrilled that an actual real-life
> issue I'm having may be resolvable by metaclasses (which so far
> I've only admired from afar but never considered relevant to my
> day-to-day work),

I thought this a really nice example of metaclass use too.

 > but unfortunately I'm still struggling to get
> this to work.
>
> If I add your code, what happens is that the Foo class will try
> to read "Foo.tmpl", which does not exist -- it is only the
> derived classes FooA etc, that need to execute this code, not Foo
> itself.

My simpleminded solution to the above would be to create a dummy 
Foo.tmpl file, so it does exist. Or, in __new__ above, conditionalize 
the fetch: if name != 'Foo': ...

Terry Jan Reedy



From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:08:00 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:08:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 15, 9:56?pm, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lacrima wrote:
> > Thanks for your reply! Isn't what you are talking about integration
> > tests? And unit tests should be fully isolated? So even for method
> > 'some_method()' of class A I should mock instance of class A (i.e. to
> > mock 'self') to test 'some_method()'.
>
> "Unit test" is a high-end QA concept. Developers can get the best
> return on "developer tests". They don't bother with aerospace-quality
> isolation between units.
>
> If a TDD test needs to pull in a bunch of modules to pass, that's
> generally a good thing, because they all get indirect testing. If they
> catch a bug, their local tests might not catch it, but the higher
> level tests still have a chance.
>
> (And if your product still needs unit tests, TDD will make them very
> easy for a formal QA team to add.)
>
> However, expensive setup is a design smell. That means if a test case
> requires too many lines of code for its Assemble phase (before its
> Activate and Assert phases), then maybe those lines of code support
> objects that are too coupled, and they need a better design.
>
> Throwing mocks at these objects, instead of decoupling them, will
> "perfume" the design smell, instead of curing it.
>
> > > "construction encapsulation")
> > And could you give an example.
>
> ? def test_frob(self):
> ? ? ? frob = Frob()
> ? ? ? frob.knob = Mock()
> ? ? ? frob.knob.value = Mock(return_value = 42)
> ? ? ? assert 42 == frob.method_using_knob()
>
> We need the mock because we can't control how Frob's constructor built
> its knob. So instead, give Frob the option to construct with a Knob:
>
> ? def test_frob(self):
> ? ? ? knob = Knob(42)
> ? ? ? frob = Frob(knob)
> ? ? ? assert frob.method_using_knob()
>
> Note that in production the Knob constructor never takes a Knob. Maybe
> we should upgrade the production code too (!), or maybe Knob's
> constructor should only create a knob if it didn't get passed one.
> Either technique is acceptable, because the resulting code decouples
> Frobs and Knobs just a little bit more.
>
> > For me it's really hard to develop test first. Often I don't know what
> > tests to write to replace hardcoded return values by objects that
> > perform actual work.
>
> You have read too many books on TDD. C-:
>
> Alternate between writing lines of test and lines of code. Run the
> tests after the fewest possible edits, and always correctly predict if
> the tests will pass, or will fail, and with what diagnostic. (And
> configure your editor to run the stankin tests, no matter how hard it
> fights you!) The high-end tricks will get easier after you get the
> basic cycle down.
>
> --
> ? Phlip
> ?http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand

Hi Phlip!

Thanks for your exhaustive answer.
Actually, I'll investigate your example with 'frob'. From just reading
the example it's not clear for me what I will benefit, using this
approach.
And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
looks like a great waste of time.


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:38:09 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 09:38:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <07d50b9f-c4bb-4d49-82d0-bd6d1c2e42be@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 9:08?am, Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your exhaustive answer.
> Actually, I'll investigate your example with 'frob'. From just reading
> the example it's not clear for me what I will benefit, using this
> approach.

I can't get a good hit for "construction encapsulation" in Google.
(Although I got some good bad ones!)

This paper _almost_ gets the idea:
http://www.netobjectives.com/download/Code%20Qualities%20and%20Practices.pdf

> And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
> looks like a great waste of time.

Do you run your tests after the fewest possible edits? Such as 1-3
lines of code?

I'm not sure why the TDD books don't hammer that point down...

--
  Phlip
  http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Feb 16 13:20:03 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:20:03 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2597.1266271949.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
	<hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2597.1266271949.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7u05ulFfmkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 15.02.10 23:12, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>> Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've
>> seen)
>>> approach:
>>>
>>> You need to define something like:
>>> |
>>> | class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
>>> |
>>> in your blog software.
>>
>> Why? Any reason you can't define it in a separate package the
>> blog-software depends on, as well as your wiki?
>
> That's actually my point - most plugin systems I've seen, like the one
> trac uses, are not encouraging you to do so. Having a module that just
> defines an Interface is kind of weird - and in the real world no one is
> doing it.

Just because nobody doesn't do it doesn't mean it's not desirable. IMHO 
the ones using interfaces usually immediatly implement them for some 
cases - so you actually get the interface for you authentication 
framework, and also implement an OpenID plugin for it. And this forms 
one package. Then you can add new packages that implement other things.

repoze.who and what are examples for such design.


>
>> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior
>> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit
>> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
>> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.
>
> Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check if
> your "implementation" comply with the "interface".

I didn't say nobody does it, I just said it isn't needed to get a 
working plugin system. If you don't want to have a separate package 
*and* don't want to pull in any unused code, this is pretty much your 
only option.

> Here is one solution I came up with. Based on the earlier example:
>>>      Lets say you program a wiki and like to allow different kind of
>>>      authentications. So you create two plugins (for example one for
>>>      OpenID and one for Shibboleth).
>>>
>>>       Some time later you feel like reinventing the wheel again and
>>>       you program a blog. Again you like to allow different ways of
>>>       authentication and you already wrote plugins for exactly the
>>>        same for your wiki, right?
>
> auth_openid.py - providing the authentication service
> http://dpaste.com/hold/159619/
>
> wiki.py - providing the wiki
> http://dpaste.com/hold/159634/
>
> Now putting both together:
>
>> import pbus
>>
>> import wiki
>> import auth_openid
>> # or: import auth_shibboleth
>>
>> pbus.get("wiki").run()
>
> No interface definitions.
>
>
> What do you think? Any obvious pitfalls (besides reinventing something)?

I don't know what pbus is supposed to do. Nor how it's laid out on a 
python package level.

Diez


From caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca  Tue Feb 16 13:32:51 2010
From: caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca (Casey Hawthorne)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:32:51 -0800
Subject: Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell,
	will there be such a connection between Python and Haskell?
Message-ID: <t3pln5dilpl922ffssjf5bh5dqrakccorp@4ax.com>

Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection
between Python and Haskell?
--
Regards,
Casey


From caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca  Tue Feb 16 13:38:41 2010
From: caseyhHAMMER_TIME at istar.ca (Casey Hawthorne)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:38:41 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
	have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
Message-ID: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>

Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.

http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-death.html
--
Regards,
Casey


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 13:58:27 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:58:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavac7u8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <8bc76e9f-be88-43db-9792-205621b93364@t1g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>

Hey all, thanks as always for the quick responses.

I actually found a very simple way to do what I needed to do. In
short, I needed to take an email which had a large number of addresses
in the 'to' field, and place just the identifiers (everything to the
left of @domain.com), in a python list.

I simply highlighted all the addresses and placed them in a text file
called emails.txt. Then I had the following code which placed each
line in the file into the list 'names':

[code]
fileHandle = open('/Users/Matt/Documents/python/results.txt','r')
names = fileHandle.readlines()
[/code]

Now, the 'names' list has values looking like this: ['aaa12 at domain.com
\n', 'bbb34 at domain.com\n', etc]. So I ran the following code:

[code]
for x in names:
    st_list.append(x.replace('@domain.com\n',''))
[/code]

And that did the trick! 'Names' now has ['aaa12', 'bbb34', etc].

Obviously this only worked because all of the domain names were the
same. If they were not then based on your comments and my own
research, I would've had to use regex and the split(), which looked
massively complicated to learn.

Thanks all.

Matt

On Feb 15, 8:01?pm, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> writes:
> > I'm trying to write python code that will open a textfile and find the
> > email addresses inside it. I then want the code to take just the
> > characters to the left of the "@" symbol, and place them in a list.
>
> Email addresses can have more than one ?@? character. In fact, the
> quoting rules allow the local-part to contain *any ASCII character* and
> remain valid.
>
> > Any suggestions would be much appeciated!
>
> For a brief but thorough treatment of parsing email addresses, see RFC
> 3696, ?Application Techniques for Checking and Transformation of Names?
> <URL:http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3696.txt>, specifically section 3.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ? ? ??What I have to do is see, at any rate, that I do not lend |
> ? `\ ? ? ?myself to the wrong which I condemn.? ?Henry Thoreau, _Civil |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Disobedience_ |
> Ben Finney



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 14:41:58 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:41:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
wrote:
> Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
> have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
>
> http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de...
> --
> Regards,
> Casey

Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
point?"

I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
statements, for crying out loud use a def? And who needs those "do-
end" blocks anyway, trying to turn Python into Pascal?


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 16 14:44:45 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Feb 2010 11:44:45 -0800
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net>
Message-ID: <hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4B7A91B1.6030301 at lonetwin.net>, steve  <steve at lonetwin.net> wrote:
>On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>
>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>
>The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?

The disadvantage of that is that it's O(2N) instead of O(N).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From dino at phidev.org  Tue Feb 16 14:50:39 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:50:39 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <hlecoe$nh7$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain> <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <1266271943.4299.2887.camel@brain>
	<hlecoe$nh7$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1266349839.10498.240.camel@brain>

On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 16:14 +0100, Paul K?lle wrote:
> Am 15.02.2010 23:12, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> > On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior
> >> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any
> >> explicit
> >> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
> >> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.
> >
> > Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check 
> > if your "implementation" comply with the "interface".

> Which is a good thing IMO ;)

Type checking might be good but not pythonic - imo. The problem with
having interfaces needed to be declared (and therefore the possibility
to check) is as I outlined in my first mail:
 Where to put those interface descriptions if you want both sides
pluggable? You probably end up depending on other modules/projects just
to import the interfaces.

> > Here is one solution I came up with.
> [...]
> Can you post working code? It's not clear what "pbus" is and how it
> works.

Oh, sorry. The idea is similar to "d-bus" - hence the name. Its "the
communcation system". The code is pretty simple and quick. Please
remember its just to show of the concept not to use it in any production
software or anything.

Instead of using classes as connecting-piece I thought using strings
(maybe path "/plugin/wiki" or "org.example.wiki") might solve my
problem. It might be possible to add optional interface validation
though.


pbus.py - just a simple concept implementation of a framework
http://dpaste.com/hold/159980/

auth_openid.py - providing the authentication service
http://dpaste.com/hold/159619/

wiki.py - providing the wiki
http://dpaste.com/hold/159634/

Now putting both together:

> import pbus
>
> import wiki
> import auth_openid
> # or: import auth_shibboleth
>
> pbus.get("wiki").run()



-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Tue Feb 16 14:53:18 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:53:18 +0000
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
In-Reply-To: <hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>	<4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net>
	<hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B7AF7AE.6040401@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/02/2010 19:44, Aahz wrote:
> In article<4B7A91B1.6030301 at lonetwin.net>, steve<steve at lonetwin.net>  wrote:
>> On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>>
>> The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?
>
> The disadvantage of that is that it's O(2N) instead of O(N).

<Tongue-in-cheek> Well you could do this:

a.sort ()
return -1

TJG


From nagle at animats.com  Tue Feb 16 15:15:05 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:15:05 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
Message-ID: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

    In the beginning, Python had some types which were "frozen", and some which
weren't.  Now, there's a trend towards having both "frozen" and "unfrozen"
versions of built-in types.  We now have "frozen" and "unfrozen" sets,
dictionaries, and byte arrays.  It's becoming clear that that the concept of 
"frozen" is separate from the type involved.

    Maybe "frozen" should be generalized, so that all "unfrozen" objects also
have "frozen" versions.

    I'd suggest
	
	p = freeze(q)

which would generate a "frozen" copy of q.  (For lists, this would
return a tuple.  For unfrozen sets, a frozen set.  Etc.)

	p = deepfreeze(q)

would generate "frozen" deep copy of q, for which each object it references
is also a "frozen" copy.

For objects,

	class c(frozenobject) :
		def __init__(self, someparam) :
			self.p = someparam
		...

would result in a class which returns frozen objects from the constructor.

    In concurrent programs, frozen objects can be shared without locking.
This simplifies locking considerably.  This may provide a way to get out
from the Global Interpreter Lock.  One possible implementation would be
to have unfrozen objects managed by reference counting and locking as
in CPython.  Frozen objects would live in a different memory space and be
garbage collected by a concurrent garbage collector.

    If we add "synchronized" objects with built-in locking, like Java,
threading becomes much cleaner.

	class d(synchronized) :
		...

A typical "synchronized" object would be a queue.  Anything with
state shared across threads has to be synchronized.  Only one
thread at a time can be active within a synchronized object,
due to a built-in implicit lock.

Semantics of synchronized objects:

	"Synchronized" objects cannot be frozen.  Trying to freeze
	them just returns the object.

	If a thread blocks on an explicit "wait", the synchronized
	object is temporarily unlocked during the "wait".  This
	allows threads to wait for, say, a queue to get another
	entry from another thread.

If only synchronized objects and frozen objects can be shared across
threads, the GIL becomes unnecessary.  Big performance win on multicore
CPUs.

    "Synchronized" was a pain in Java because Java doesn't have "frozen"
objects.  Too much effort went into synchronizing little stuff.  But
in a language with frozen objects, the little stuff would be frozen,
and wouldn't need its own locks.

    Threaded programs that already use queue objects to communicate with
each other are almost ready for this kind of architecture now.  If
the queue class made a frozen copy of any unfrozen, unsynchronized
copy placed on a queue, conversion to this approach could be almost
automatic.

    What would probably happen in practice is that potential race conditions in
existing programs would raise "unshareable object" exceptions,
indicating that something needed to be synchronized.  That's a good thing.
This approach makes threading much easier for the typical programmer.
Instead of race conditions and random errors, you get error messages.

    And we get rid of the GIL.

    I look at this as Python's answer to multicore CPUs and "Go".

					John Nagle


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 16 15:15:11 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:15:11 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2618.1266335733.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2618.1266335733.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hleuge$sc2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Steve Holden:
> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> [...]
>>> I'll do some further research to see what's going on there.
>> Cheers,
>>
>> - Alf (is this off-topic for the group?)
> 
> It's gone a lot further off than this without anyone complaining.  I
> think your experiences to date should convince you that you can rely on
> being told when you drift too far off-topic :)

Some old folks' music, Eternity's Breath & Stratus; the guy playing is 65:

   <url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMH6WH9gyCc>

Hip hoppers may skip the 80 seconds complicated intro.

It is relevant in a way, although very indirectly. For although the comment did 
not pop up here, many Satch videos (this is not Satch) have comments like "How 
on Earth can he remember all those notes?"

And he doesn't.

It's not memorization: one can't create at this level by memorizing notes or rules.

It's an understanding of the tool one uses and what one wants to create and the 
basic themes, and in this video it's also the synergy effect of four people 
doing that, creating together something they can't quite believe they're doing, 
so you have four madly grinning world class musicians  --  and audience... :-)


- Alf


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Feb 16 15:15:30 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:15:30 -0600
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
In-Reply-To: <8bc76e9f-be88-43db-9792-205621b93364@t1g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>	<87aavac7u8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<8bc76e9f-be88-43db-9792-205621b93364@t1g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7AFCE2.7080708@tim.thechases.com>

galileo228 wrote:
> [code]
> fileHandle = open('/Users/Matt/Documents/python/results.txt','r')
> names = fileHandle.readlines()
> [/code]
> 
> Now, the 'names' list has values looking like this: ['aaa12 at domain.com
> \n', 'bbb34 at domain.com\n', etc]. So I ran the following code:
> 
> [code]
> for x in names:
>     st_list.append(x.replace('@domain.com\n',''))
> [/code]
> 
> And that did the trick! 'Names' now has ['aaa12', 'bbb34', etc].
> 
> Obviously this only worked because all of the domain names were the
> same. If they were not then based on your comments and my own
> research, I would've had to use regex and the split(), which looked
> massively complicated to learn.

The complexities stemmed from several factors that, with more 
details, could have made the solutions less daunting:

   (a) you mentioned "finding" the email addresses -- this makes 
it sound like there's other junk in the file that has to be 
sifted through to find "things that look like an email address". 
If the sole content of the file is lines containing only email 
addresses, then "find the email address" is a bit like [1]

   (b) you omitted the detail that the domains are all the same. 
  Even if they're not the same, (a) reduces the problem to a much 
easier task:

   s = set()
   for line in file('results.txt'):
     s.add(line.rsplit('@', 1)[0].lower())
   print s

If it was previously a CSV or tab-delimited file, Python offers 
batteries-included processing to make it easy:

   import csv
   f = file('results.txt', 'rb')
   r = csv.DictReader(f)  # CSV
   # r = csv.DictReader(f, delimiter='\t') # tab delim
   s = set()
   for row in r:
     s.add(row['Email'].lower())
   f.close()

or even

   f = file(...)
   r = csv.DictReader(...)
   s = set(row['Email'].lower() for row in r)
   f.close()

Hope this gives you more ideas to work with.

-tkc

[1]
http://jacksmix.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/findx.jpg





From nad at acm.org  Tue Feb 16 15:26:29 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:26:29 -0800
Subject: shelve.open generates (22,
	'Invalid argument')  Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5
References: <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <nad-B0881F.12262816022010@ger.gmane.org>

In article 
<7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482 at r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
 seth <hklasky at gmail.com> wrote:
> We have a code that creates a simple Python shelve database. We are
> able to serialize objects and store them in the dbm file. This seem to
> work the same on Windows XP Python 2.5, Ubuntu 9.1 with Python 2.6,
> but on Os X 10.5 with Python 2.5 the database filename is changed by
> the operating system by attaching the .db extension to it. Does an one
> know why is that?

It's a documented "feature": it depends on the underlying database 
package used by shelve.

http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html

"As a side-effect, an extension may be added to the filename ..."

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 16 15:30:42 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:30:42 +1100
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lacrima <lacrima.maxim at gmail.com> writes:

> And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
> looks like a great waste of time.

It only looks like that until you chase your tail in a long, fruitless
debugging session because (you later realise) the behaviour of one test
is being affected by another. Test isolation is essential to ensure that
your tests are doing what you think they're doing.

-- 
 \       ?A ?No? uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater |
  `\       than a ?Yes? merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to |
_o__)                              avoid trouble.? ?Mohandas K. Gandhi |
Ben Finney


From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 16 15:31:33 2010
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:31:33 -0500
Subject: A fix for pylab and TkAgg plotting in SAGE (Mac OS X)
Message-ID: <pecora-D38B2A.15313316022010@ra.nrl.navy.mil>

A few weeks ago I posted a problem with Mac OS X with matplotlib in the 
SAGE distribution in which attempting to import pylab gave an error 
message which stated that there was an import error and the module 
_tkagg could not be found. The problem appears to be with matplotlib 
(I'm not clear about this).  After much searching and some emailing I 
have found a solution to this problem and it is easy to do.  

Full credit goes to Eric Sonnendrucker who sent it to me.

Here it is:

1) Download the Tcl/Tk sources (go to http://www.tcl.tk/, click on Get 
Tcl/Tk Now, click on Sources Download Page,, download the latest 
version).

2) In the Terminal cd to the unix folder in the tcl folder.  Compile the 
unix version (of Tcl and Tk) as follows 
./configure --enable-framework --disable-xft
make
make install

3) Install SAGE from source.  Download the SAGE source code (go to 
http://www.sagemath.org/, click on Download, click on Download complete 
source code).  In the terminal cd to the SAGE folder and *before* you 
run the sage install you need to set

SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI=True

using export SAGE_MATPLOTLIB_GUI=True with bash. The installer then 
picks it up automatically.

Complete the SAGE installation by typing make and hit return. That's it. 
This will take a while (up to a few hours depending on the computer).

4) You might also need to modify you matplotlibrc by setting 
backend='TkAgg'  after the installation


Test this by doing an import pylab in sage.  You should not get an error.

-- 
-- Lou Pecora


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 16:12:51 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:12:51 -0500
Subject: Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection 
	between Python and Haskell?
In-Reply-To: <f3cc57c61002161149p250be637x2e3a5f48c7d91339@mail.gmail.com>
References: <t3pln5dilpl922ffssjf5bh5dqrakccorp@4ax.com>
	<f3cc57c61002161149p250be637x2e3a5f48c7d91339@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002161312r2c6a90a3scc7aaa4dfa923221@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I'll admit- my hand hovered over the 'initiate flamewar' button
for a moment before
I figured out what you were actually asking.

And I know I'm working on it, which probably means 8 or 9 others are as well.

Geremy Condra


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 16 16:23:48 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:23:48 -0800
Subject: Wrestling with the Py2exe Install, Win7, Py2.5
Message-ID: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I've finally decided to see if I could make an executable out of a py 
file. Win7. Py2.5. I brought down the install file and proceeded with 
the install. I got two warning messages. Forgot the first. The second 
said,"Could not set the key value." I again used OK. I think that was 
the only choice. It then issued a message in a larger dialog. It was 
about setting a key, and pointed me to a log. It mentions a Removepy2exe -u

Although it finished, I have no idea where the program is. It does not 
show up on the Start menu All Programs List nore my desktop. What's up?

I've had these messages (key) occur on other Python installs as I 
transition to Win7. So far no problem.



From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 16:37:30 2010
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:37:30 +0200
Subject: GIL state during import
Message-ID: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>

Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
file?
If not, is it a bug?
If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think it
should be mentioned in the documentation.

--doron
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From userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Feb 16 16:41:21 2010
From: userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk (rodmc)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:41:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shipping Executables
Message-ID: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
for people to hack into the code. Also where software requires some
security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this
correct?

Anyway I would appreciate any views or tips that people have?

Kind regards,

rod


From hklasky at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:03:55 2010
From: hklasky at gmail.com (seth)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:03:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: shelve.open generates (22, 'Invalid argument') Os X 10.5 with 
	Python 2.5
References: <7a9d26a8-0a9f-4bf3-bf50-0ac5e337f482@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hl9ev5$i2u$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <c24b28ed-f25b-497b-9ea9-756306a7368b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 14, 1:21 pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> Nope -- any reason you can't change the filename?
> --

Os X 10.5 did not recognized the dbm extension.

But, I have been able to fix the problem (hope it helps somebody):
At http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html it says:

"shelve.open(filename[, flag='c'[, protocol=None[,
writeback=False]]])?

    Open a persistent dictionary. The filename specified is the base
filename for the underlying database. As a side-effect, an extension
may be added to the filename and more than one file may be created. By
default, the underlying database file is opened for reading and
writing. "

Then, I went ahead and try to find out which type of db file was being
created:

print whichdb.whichdb(dbmFile)#prints bsddb185
kpfmac:xLPR kpf$ python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb  9 2009, 18:49:36)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import bsddb185
>>> bsddb185.open('realizations.db')
<bsddb.bsddb object at 0x12260>

I found that the dbm extension is generated by bsddb and bsddb3 so I
went ahead and installed it: sudo easy_install bsddb3.
Finally, in our code, I just went ahead and instead of using
shelve.open, I am calling shelve.BsdDbShelf(bsddb3.btopen(filename,
'c'))

        #realizations=shelve.open( filename, 'c', 2, writeback =
False )
        #hk 021010: need to use BsdDbShelf to ensure the usage of
bsddb3 on OsX 10.5
        #shelve.open creates a bsddb185 file on OsX 10.5
        #but shelve.open on OsX reads with bsddb3, who knows why...
        #as a result the shelve.open throws
        #<class 'bsddb.error'> (22, 'Invalid argument')
        dbshelf=shelve.BsdDbShelf(bsddb3.btopen(filename, 'c'))
        realizations=dbshelf

And that fixed on Os X 10.5. It also works fine on Windows, by
ensuring the proper import:
try:
    import bsddb3
except:
    import bsddb as bsddb3




From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:21:06 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:21:06 +0000
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net> <hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <m2d404izzh.fsf@googlemail.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <4B7A91B1.6030301 at lonetwin.net>, steve  <steve at lonetwin.net> wrote:
>>On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>>
>>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>>
>>The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?
>
> The disadvantage of that is that it's O(2N) instead of O(N).

:-)

Joke aside, even though you traverse the list twice, it may still be
quicker than other solutions because both max and list.index are C
functions and no intermediate object is constructed.

-- 
Arnaud


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:25:53 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:25:53 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002161425n1c187d41qdd33db1c584767bd@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 4:41 PM, rodmc <userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
> have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
> point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
> 100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
> it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
> for people to hack into the code.

If you mean that it is difficult to stop people from modifying the
source code, then you're correct. If you mean that python
programs are more likely to have security problems than, say,
C, I think its safe to assume that you're not correct about that.

> Also where software requires some
> security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this
> correct?

I've never had any reason to feel more concerned about the
code that I write in python, and I use it for crypto research.

> Anyway I would appreciate any views or tips that people have?

I'd worry about developing a product worth stealing before I
worried about people stealing it ;)

Geremy Condra


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 17:50:10 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:50:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <35d8fe79-4f3f-4742-ba0f-66e3b5a4c7bd@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 12:30?pm, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> writes:

> > And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
> > looks like a great waste of time.
>
> It only looks like that until you chase your tail in a long, fruitless
> debugging session because (you later realise) the behaviour of one test
> is being affected by another. Test isolation is essential to ensure that
> your tests are doing what you think they're doing.

That is runtime test isolation. It's not the same thing as "unit test
isolation". Just take care in your tearDown() to scrub your
environment.

Google "Mock abuse" from here...

--
  Phlip


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb 16 17:57:28 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:57:28 -0500
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <hlf7sn$q8u$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/16/2010 3:15 PM, John Nagle wrote:
> In the beginning, Python had some types which were "frozen",
 > and some which weren't.

In the beginning, there was only one 'frozen' general purpose collection 
type, the tuple. And Guido resisted the suggestion that lists and tuple 
were mutable and frozen versions of each other.

However, things have changed, and lists and tuple *are* effectively 
mutable and hashable versions of each other, and we have the three other 
pairs you mentioned. The idea of freeze() may have been floated (and 
punctured) during Py3 discussions, but I think it a fairly good one.

Terry Jan Reedy



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Feb 16 18:01:08 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:01:08 -0500
Subject: GIL state during import
In-Reply-To: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/16/2010 4:37 PM, Doron Tal wrote:
> Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
> file?
> If not, is it a bug?
> If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think
> it should be mentioned in the documentation.

The CPython GIL is a CPython implementation artifact and should not be 
mentioned in the language docs (and is not, as far as I know). Were you 
thinking of something else? And why this specific feature of its 
behavior, whatever it is.

tjr





From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 16 18:19:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Feb 2010 23:19:03 GMT
Subject: ANN: obfuscate 0.2.2b
Message-ID: <4b7b27e7$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I am pleased to announce the beta release of obfuscate 0.2.2b.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/obfuscate/

The beta release does not contain any new functionality from the previous 
version, but includes bug fixes and many new tests.



obfuscate is a pure-Python module providing classical encryption
algorithms suitable for obfuscating and unobfuscating text.

obfuscate includes the following ciphers:
 - Caesar, rot13, rot5, rot18, rot47
 - atbash
 - Playfair, Playfair6 and Playfair16
 - Railfence (encryption only)
 - Keyword
 - Affine
 - Vigenere
 - frob (xor)

and others.

DISCLAIMER: obfuscate is not cryptographically strong, and should not be
used where high security is required. (The ciphers provided in obfuscate
may have been state of the art centuries ago, but should not be used where
strong encryption is required.

obfuscate is released under the MIT licence.

Requires Python 2.5 or 2.6.



From db3l.net at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 18:34:13 2010
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:34:13 -0500
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2aav84ux6.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>

alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> writes:

> News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>
>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>
>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>> as well.
>
> I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].

Another alternative is the win32service module from the pywin32
package (which IMO you'll almost certainly want available when doing
any significant Windows-specific operations) which wraps the native
win32 libraries for enumerating, querying and controlling services.

A simple loop could use EnumServicesStatus to iterate through the
services, OpenService with the SERVICE_QUERY_CONFIG flag to get a
handle to each service, and then QueryServiceConfig to retrieve
configuration information.

Since pywin32 is a relatively thin wrapper over the win32 libraries,
pure MSDN documentation can be used for help with the calls, augmented
by any Python-related information contained in the pywin32
documentation.

-- David


From xiajunyi at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 18:48:17 2010
From: xiajunyi at gmail.com (Imaginationworks)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:48:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
Message-ID: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
line in the text file.  Currently, the whole file was read into a
string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
questions are

1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'

2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
may suggest?

Thanks,

- Jeremy



===== Structured text file =================
Object1 = {

...

SubObject1 = {
....

SubSubObject1 = {
...
};
};

SubObject2 = {
....

SubSubObject21 = {
...
};
};

SubObjectN = {
....

SubSubObjectN = {
...
};
};
};


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 19:07:57 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Parsing for email addresses
References: <26660eb6-0c49-4251-92d8-d3c13e071ba5@k11g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<87aavac7u8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<8bc76e9f-be88-43db-9792-205621b93364@t1g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2626.1266351343.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <814bb446-6fe5-42cb-9033-c330e74f6123@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Tim -

Thanks for this.  I actually did intend to have to sift through other
junk in the file, but then figured I could just cut and paste emails
directly from the 'to' field, thus making life easier.

Also, in this particular instance, the domain names were the same, and
thus I was able to figure out my solution, but I do need to know how
to handle the same situation when the domain names are different, so
your response was most helpful.

Apologies for leaving out some details.

Matt

On Feb 16, 3:15?pm, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> galileo228 wrote:
> > [code]
> > fileHandle = open('/Users/Matt/Documents/python/results.txt','r')
> > names = fileHandle.readlines()
> > [/code]
>
> > Now, the 'names' list has values looking like this: ['aa... at domain.com
> > \n', 'bb... at domain.com\n', etc]. So I ran the following code:
>
> > [code]
> > for x in names:
> > ? ? st_list.append(x.replace('... at domain.com\n',''))
> > [/code]
>
> > And that did the trick! 'Names' now has ['aaa12', 'bbb34', etc].
>
> > Obviously this only worked because all of the domain names were the
> > same. If they were not then based on your comments and my own
> > research, I would've had to use regex and the split(), which looked
> > massively complicated to learn.
>
> The complexities stemmed from several factors that, with more
> details, could have made the solutions less daunting:
>
> ? ?(a) you mentioned "finding" the email addresses -- this makes
> it sound like there's other junk in the file that has to be
> sifted through to find "things that look like an email address".
> If the sole content of the file is lines containing only email
> addresses, then "find the email address" is a bit like [1]
>
> ? ?(b) you omitted the detail that the domains are all the same.
> ? Even if they're not the same, (a) reduces the problem to a much
> easier task:
>
> ? ?s = set()
> ? ?for line in file('results.txt'):
> ? ? ?s.add(line.rsplit('@', 1)[0].lower())
> ? ?print s
>
> If it was previously a CSV or tab-delimited file, Python offers
> batteries-included processing to make it easy:
>
> ? ?import csv
> ? ?f = file('results.txt', 'rb')
> ? ?r = csv.DictReader(f) ?# CSV
> ? ?# r = csv.DictReader(f, delimiter='\t') # tab delim
> ? ?s = set()
> ? ?for row in r:
> ? ? ?s.add(row['Email'].lower())
> ? ?f.close()
>
> or even
>
> ? ?f = file(...)
> ? ?r = csv.DictReader(...)
> ? ?s = set(row['Email'].lower() for row in r)
> ? ?f.close()
>
> Hope this gives you more ideas to work with.
>
> -tkc
>
> [1]http://jacksmix.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/findx.jpg



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb 16 19:19:07 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:19:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 11:41?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
> > have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
>
> >http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de...
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Casey
>
> Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
> linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
> block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
> statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
> point?"
>
> I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
> expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
> in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
> statements, for crying out loud use a def? And who needs those "do-
> end" blocks anyway, trying to turn Python into Pascal?

I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
nice feature for Python.

Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)

I became enlightened.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Tue Feb 16 19:22:40 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:22:40 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8DFBF31D-98D4-425B-A7D1-CC83E60AB02B@semanchuk.com>


On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:41 PM, rodmc wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
> have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
> point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
> 100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
> it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
> for people to hack into the code. Also where software requires some
> security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this
> correct?


Hi Rod,
The user's ability to hack into the code is usually considered one of  
the strengths of Python & open source software in general. Since most  
Python software that's distributed  is open source, you're doing  
something different than most. It'd help if you explain how you want  
your software to differ from a typical open source distribution. Do  
you not want people to change the code? Are you worried about your  
code & ideas being stolen?



bye
Philip


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Tue Feb 16 19:29:44 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:29:44 -0000
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u78wzuw6a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:48:17 -0000, Imaginationworks <xiajunyi at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> line in the text file.  Currently, the whole file was read into a
> string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
> questions are
>
> 1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
> list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'

The usual idiom is to process a line at a time, which avoids the memory  
overhead of reading the entire file in, creating the list, and so on.   
Assuming your input file is laid out as neatly as you said, that's  
straightforward to do:

for line in myfile:
     if "= {" in line:
         start_a_new_object(line)
     elif "};" in line:
         end_current_object(line)
     else:
         add_stuff_to_current_object(line)

You probably want more robust tests than I used there, but that depends on  
how well-defined your input file is.  If it can be edited by hand, you'll  
need to be more defensive!

> 2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
> may suggest?

That depends on what you mean by "extract the object information".  If you  
mean "get the object name", just split the line at the "=" and strip off  
the whitespace you don't want.  If you mean "track how objects are  
connected to one another, have each object keep a list of its immediate  
sub-objects (which will have lists of their immediate sub-objects, and so  
on); it's fairly easy to keep track of which objects are current using a  
list as a stack.  If you mean something else, sorry but my crystal ball is  
cloudy tonight.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From dyamins at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 19:29:55 2010
From: dyamins at gmail.com (Dan Yamins)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:29:55 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
Message-ID: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:

I'm wondering what the best way to wrap and modify function calls is.
Essentially what I want to achieve is to have a function like this:

def Wrap(frame,event,arg):
     if event == 'call':
        result = PerformCheck(GetArgumentsFromFrame(frame))
        if Condition(result):
            return result
        else:
            return [normal function call]

called whenever a "call" event is about to occur.

When I say "return result" I mean:  return that data object instead of what
the function would have returned, and prevent execution of the function.


Is there any way to do this using sys.settrace?  Or perhaps something from
the bdb or pbd module?

Thanks!
Dan
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From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 19:31:35 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:31:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
Message-ID: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

All,

My python program signs onto the student facebook at my school and,
given email addresses, returns the associated full name.  If I were to
do this through a regular browser, there is also a picture of the
individual, and I am trying to get my program to download the picture
as well. The problem: the html code of the page does not point to a
particular file, but rather refers to (what seems like) a query.

So, if one went to the facebook and searched for me using my school
net id (msb83), the image of my profile on the results page is:

<img width="100" height="130" border="0" class="border" alt="msb83"
src="deliverImage.cfm?netid=MSB83">

Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
following:

br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
br.select_form(nr = 1)

br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
me
br.submit()
results = br.response().read()
soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
foo3 = foo2.find('a')
foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
# this just drills down to the <img> line and   until this point the
program does not return an error

save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)

I get the following error msg after running this code:

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'

I can download the picture through my browser by right-clicking,
selecting save as, and then the image gets saved as
'deliverImage.cfm.jpeg.'

Are there any suggestions as to how I might be able to download the
image using python?

Please let me know if more information is needed -- happy to supply
it.

Matt


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 16 19:56:11 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Feb 2010 16:56:11 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlferb$ico$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0 at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
Jonathan Gardner  <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
>
>I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
>nice feature for Python.
>
>Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
>with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
>I became enlightened.

+1 QOTW
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Tue Feb 16 20:14:43 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:14:43 -0800
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
In-Reply-To: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7B4303.2000301@islandtraining.com>

Imaginationworks wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> line in the text file.  Currently, the whole file was read into a
> string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
> questions are
>
> 1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
> list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'
>   

Yes.   Read the *whole* file into a single string using file.read() 
method, and then search through the string using string methods (for 
simple things) or use re, the regular expression module, (for more 
complex searches).     

Note:  There is a point where a file becomes large enough that reading 
the whole file into memory at once (either as a single string or as a 
list of strings) is foolish.    However, 30,000 lines doesn't push that 
boundary.
> 2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
> may suggest?
>   

Again, the re module has nice ways to find a pattern, and return parse 
out pieces of it.   Building a good regular expression takes time, 
experience, and a bit of black magic...    To do so for this case, we 
might need more knowledge of your format.  Also regular expressions have 
their limits.  For instance, if the sub objects can nest to any level, 
then in fact, regular expressions alone can't solve the whole problem, 
and you'll need a more robust parser.


> Thanks,
>
> - Jeremy
>
>
>
> ===== Structured text file =================
> Object1 = {
>
> ...
>
> SubObject1 = {
> ....
>
> SubSubObject1 = {
> ...
> };
> };
>
> SubObject2 = {
> ....
>
> SubSubObject21 = {
> ...
> };
> };
>
> SubObjectN = {
> ....
>
> SubSubObjectN = {
> ...
> };
> };
> };
>   



From john at castleamber.com  Tue Feb 16 20:48:11 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:48:11 -0600
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>

galileo228 <mattbarkan at gmail.com> writes:

> Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
> following:
>
> br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
> br.select_form(nr = 1)
>
> br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
> me
> br.submit()
> results = br.response().read()
> soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
> foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
> foo3 = foo2.find('a')
> foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
> # this just drills down to the <img> line and   until this point the
> program does not return an error
>
> save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
> urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)
>
> I get the following error msg after running this code:
>
> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'

Wild guess, since you didn't provide line numbers, etc.

foo4 is None

(I also would like to suggest to use more meaningful names)

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 21:04:40 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:04:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection 
	between Python and Haskell?
References: <t3pln5dilpl922ffssjf5bh5dqrakccorp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <009d33cc-75da-4afe-9715-31e820ddc54e@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 10:32?am, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
wrote:
> Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection
> between Python and Haskell?

I would have expected Hubris to link Ada and Common Lisp together.


Carl Banks


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 16 21:11:15 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 02:11:15 GMT
Subject: Shipping Executables
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:41:21 -0800, rodmc wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
> have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
> point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
> 100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
> it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
> for people to hack into the code.

Looks like you are looking to apply the philosophy "No user serviceable 
parts inside".



> Also where software requires some
> security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this correct?

Absolutely 100% wrong. It is an fundamental principle of security that 
you must not assume that the enemy is ignorant of your procedures. 
"Security by obscurity" is not security at all.

See, for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs'_Principle

If you are trusting that your software will be secure because people 
cannot read the source code, you have already failed. Hackers break into 
computer systems without the source code as a matter of course: allowing 
the source to be available generally makes so little difference as to be 
no difference. Worse, keeping the source code secret *as a security 
measure* lulls people into a false sense of security, letting them use 
weak security confident that since nobody knows how weak it is, it will 
be strong. That's not how it works.

If you have other reasons for wanting to keep the source code secret, 
that's one thing. But doing it because it is more secure is foolish: 
software simply isn't more secure when supplied as a binary instead of 
source code.


> Anyway I would appreciate any views or tips that people have?

Don't worry about it. If your application is secure, it will be secure 
even if everybody knows how it works. If it's not secure, then the bad 
guys will learn how it works even without the source code.



-- 
Steven


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 21:40:11 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:40:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <24f36666-b31f-4921-a6c0-19405af003a5@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 8:48?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
> > following:
>
> > br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
> > br.select_form(nr = 1)
>
> > br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
> > me
> > br.submit()
> > results = br.response().read()
> > soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
> > foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
> > foo3 = foo2.find('a')
> > foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
> > # this just drills down to the <img> line and ? until this point the
> > program does not return an error
>
> > save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
> > urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)>


> > I get the following error msg after running this code:
>
> > AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'
>
> Wild guess, since you didn't provide line numbers, etc.
>
> foo4 is None
>
> (I also would like to suggest to use more meaningful names)
>
> --
> John Bokma ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? j3b


I thought it was too, and I just doublechecked.  It's actually

foo3 = foo2.find('a')

that is causing the NoneType error.

Thoughts?


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 21:54:58 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (galileo228)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<24f36666-b31f-4921-a6c0-19405af003a5@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ecd9336b-0562-4e8f-baf4-5f381faf53eb@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 9:40?pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 8:48?pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> writes:
> > > Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
> > > following:
>
> > > br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
> > > br.select_form(nr = 1)
>
> > > br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
> > > me
> > > br.submit()
> > > results = br.response().read()
> > > soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
> > > foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
> > > foo3 = foo2.find('a')
> > > foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
> > > # this just drills down to the <img> line and ? until this point the
> > > program does not return an error
>
> > > save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
> > > urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)>
> > > I get the following error msg after running this code:
>
> > > AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'
>
> > Wild guess, since you didn't provide line numbers, etc.
>
> > foo4 is None
>
> > (I also would like to suggest to use more meaningful names)
>
> > --
> > John Bokma ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? j3b
>
> I thought it was too, and I just doublechecked. ?It's actually
>
> foo3 = foo2.find('a')
>
> that is causing the NoneType error.
>
> Thoughts?

I've now fixed the foo3 issue, and I now know that the problem is with
the urllib.urlretrieve line (see above). This is the error msg I get
in IDLE:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/Matt/Documents/python/dtest.py", line 59, in <module>
    urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/urllib.py", line 94, in urlretrieve
    return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, data)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/urllib.py", line 226, in retrieve
    url = unwrap(toBytes(url))
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/urllib.py", line 1033, in unwrap
    url = url.strip()
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable

Is this msg being generated because I'm trying to retrieve a url
that's not really a file?


From cournape at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 22:04:33 2010
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:04:33 +0900
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5b8d13221002161904s55697ceay6c943e2022f81156@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Andrej Mitrovic
<andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
> linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
> block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
> statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
> point?"
>
> I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
> expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
> in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
> statements, for crying out loud use a def?

I think that's a bit of a strawman: the point made by the OP is that
it enables writing simple DSL easier, and the ruby's community seems
to value this. They are not advocating using anonymous functions where
"normal" functions would do.

cheers,

David


From john at castleamber.com  Tue Feb 16 22:11:24 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:11:24 -0600
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<24f36666-b31f-4921-a6c0-19405af003a5@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<ecd9336b-0562-4e8f-baf4-5f381faf53eb@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <877hqck143.fsf@castleamber.com>

galileo228 <mattbarkan at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 16, 9:40?pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

> I've now fixed the foo3 issue, and I now know that the problem is with
> the urllib.urlretrieve line (see above). This is the error msg I get
> in IDLE:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/Matt/Documents/python/dtest.py", line 59, in <module>
>     urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 94, in urlretrieve
>     return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, data)
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 226, in retrieve
>     url = unwrap(toBytes(url))
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 1033, in unwrap
>     url = url.strip()
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
>
> Is this msg being generated because I'm trying to retrieve a url
> that's not really a file?

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>>> import urllib;
>>> urllib.urlretrieve(None)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/urllib.py", line 89, in urlretrieve
    return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, data)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/urllib.py", line 210, in retrieve
    url = unwrap(toBytes(url))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/urllib.py", line 1009, in unwrap
    url = url.strip()
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

To me it looks like you're still calling urlretrieve with None as a
first value.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Feb 16 22:14:33 2010
From: mrabarnett at mrabarnett.plus.com (Matthew Barnett)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:14:33 +0000
Subject: Download unnamed web image?
In-Reply-To: <ecd9336b-0562-4e8f-baf4-5f381faf53eb@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <25fd90d3-8c18-476b-8cb6-f53907cab1f4@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<87vddw3a5g.fsf@castleamber.com>	<24f36666-b31f-4921-a6c0-19405af003a5@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<ecd9336b-0562-4e8f-baf4-5f381faf53eb@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7B5F19.8010705@mrabarnett.plus.com>

galileo228 wrote:
> On Feb 16, 9:40 pm, galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 16, 8:48 pm, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> galileo228 <mattbar... at gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Using BeautifulSoup, mechanize, and urllib, I've constructed the
>>>> following:
>>>> br.open("http://www.school.edu/students/facebook/")
>>>> br.select_form(nr = 1)
>>>> br.form['fulltextsearch'] = 'msb83' # this searches the facebook for
>>>> me
>>>> br.submit()
>>>> results = br.response().read()
>>>> soup = BeautifulSoup(results)
>>>> foo2 = soup.find('td', attrs={'width':'95'})
>>>> foo3 = foo2.find('a')
>>>> foo4 = foo3.find('img', attrs={'src':'deliverImage.cfm?netid=msb83'})
>>>> # this just drills down to the <img> line and   until this point the
>>>> program does not return an error
>>>> save_as = os.path.join('./', msb83 + '.jpg')
>>>> urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)>
>>>> I get the following error msg after running this code:
>>>> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'strip'
>>> Wild guess, since you didn't provide line numbers, etc.
>>> foo4 is None
>>> (I also would like to suggest to use more meaningful names)
>>> --
>>> John Bokma                                                               j3b
>> I thought it was too, and I just doublechecked.  It's actually
>>
>> foo3 = foo2.find('a')
>>
>> that is causing the NoneType error.
>>
>> Thoughts?
> 
> I've now fixed the foo3 issue, and I now know that the problem is with
> the urllib.urlretrieve line (see above). This is the error msg I get
> in IDLE:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Users/Matt/Documents/python/dtest.py", line 59, in <module>
>     urllib.urlretrieve(foo4, save_as)
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 94, in urlretrieve
>     return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, data)
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 226, in retrieve
>     url = unwrap(toBytes(url))
>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/urllib.py", line 1033, in unwrap
>     url = url.strip()
> TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not callable
> 
> Is this msg being generated because I'm trying to retrieve a url
> that's not really a file?

It's because the URL you're passing in, namely foo4, is None. This is
presumably because foo3.find() returns None if it can't find the entry.

You checked the value of foo3, but did you check the value of foo4?


From tomf.sessile at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 23:44:09 2010
From: tomf.sessile at gmail.com (TomF)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:44:09 -0800
Subject: Is there a simple way to find the list index to the max value?
References: <hle2g4$8qk$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4B7A91B1.6030301@lonetwin.net> <hlesjd$ddk$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2010021620440950073-tomfsessile@gmailcom>

On 2010-02-16 11:44:45 -0800, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) said:
> In article <4B7A91B1.6030301 at lonetwin.net>, steve  <steve at lonetwin.net> wrote:
>> On 02/16/2010 05:49 PM, W. eWatson wrote:
>>> 
>>> See Subject. a = [1,4,9,3]. Find max, 9, then index to it, 2.
>> 
>> The most obvious would be a.index(max(a)). Is that what you wanted ?
> 
> The disadvantage of that is that it's O(2N) instead of O(N).

I don't think you understand order notation.   There's no such thing as O(2N).

To answer the original question, how about:
max(enumerate(l), key=lambda x: x[1])[0]
As to whether this is faster than index(max()), you'd have to time it.

-Tom



From nagle at animats.com  Wed Feb 17 00:09:27 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:09:27 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/16/2010 3:15 PM, John Nagle wrote:
>> In the beginning, Python had some types which were "frozen",
>  > and some which weren't.
> 
> In the beginning, there was only one 'frozen' general purpose collection 
> type, the tuple. And Guido resisted the suggestion that lists and tuple 
> were mutable and frozen versions of each other.
> 
> However, things have changed, and lists and tuple *are* effectively 
> mutable and hashable versions of each other, and we have the three other 
> pairs you mentioned. The idea of freeze() may have been floated (and 
> punctured) during Py3 discussions, but I think it a fairly good one.

    Yes, we're now at the point where all the built-in mutable types
have "frozen" versions.  But we don't have that for objects.  It's
generally considered a good thing in language design to offer,
for user defined types, most of the functionality of built-in ones.

    It's the concurrency aspect of this that interests me, though.
A language with immutable objects can potentially handle concurrency
more safely than one where everything is potentially mutable.
The language knows what can't change, which simplifies locking.

					John Nagle


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 17 00:52:04 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:52:04 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7xpr44pfy3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>> However, things have changed, and lists and tuple *are* effectively
>> mutable and hashable versions of each other...
>    It's the concurrency aspect of this that interests me, though.
> A language with immutable objects can potentially handle concurrency
> more safely than one where everything is potentially mutable.
> The language knows what can't change, which simplifies locking.

I wonder how well that applies to tuples containing mutable objects,
e.g.  t = ([1,2], [3,4])


From banibrata.dutta at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 01:10:42 2010
From: banibrata.dutta at gmail.com (Banibrata Dutta)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:40:42 +0530
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steven at remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> > security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this correct?
>
> Absolutely 100% wrong. It is an fundamental principle of security that
> you must not assume that the enemy is ignorant of your procedures.
> "Security by obscurity" is not security at all.
>
> See, for example:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs'_Principle
>
> I believe, the use of work 'security' wasn't the best choice to describe
the need, if I understand the original poster's intentions. The intentions
of original poster were "intellectual property protection", where-in they
have indeed created something worth stealing, and would like to put it under
lock-n-key. For that purpose, I do not think Python is the right choice.

BTW for people who are non-believers in something being worth stealing
needing protection, need to read about the Skype client.

-- 
regards,
Banibrata
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
http://twitter.com/edgeliving
-------------- next part --------------
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From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 17 01:17:25 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:17:25 +0100
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <7xpr44pfy3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<7xpr44pfy3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hlg1ph$2ri$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Paul Rubin:
> John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>>> However, things have changed, and lists and tuple *are* effectively
>>> mutable and hashable versions of each other...
>>    It's the concurrency aspect of this that interests me, though.
>> A language with immutable objects can potentially handle concurrency
>> more safely than one where everything is potentially mutable.
>> The language knows what can't change, which simplifies locking.
> 
> I wonder how well that applies to tuples containing mutable objects,
> e.g.  t = ([1,2], [3,4])

One would need a collection type that's immutable "all the way".

Current frozen types don't have that.

However, there's also the question of the immutability of what names refer to. 
It seems to me that this means that the compiler can't really assume very much 
without very deep analysis. And so, if it boils down to the programmer applying 
assumptions about mutability/constantness, then types may not be The Answer.


Cheers,

- Alf


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 02:00:59 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:00:59 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002162300if05bc57uf980667ab032314f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Banibrata Dutta
<banibrata.dutta at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steven at remove.this.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> > security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this correct?
>> Absolutely 100% wrong. It is an fundamental principle of security that
>> you must not assume that the enemy is ignorant of your procedures.
>> "Security by obscurity" is not security at all.
>>
>> See, for example:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs'_Principle
>>
> I believe, the use of work 'security' wasn't the best choice to describe the
> need, if I understand the original poster's intentions. The intentions of
> original poster were "intellectual property protection",

Which has little to do with the language in question.

> where-in they have
> indeed created something worth stealing, and would like to put it under
> lock-n-key. For that purpose, I do not think Python is the right choice.

Why?

> BTW for people who are non-believers in something being worth stealing
> needing protection, need to read about the Skype client.

Most of the people I know who were interested in REing skype were
a lot more interested in either interoperating with the protocol or ensuring
that skype wasn't deliberately including malware or a backdoor. In any
even I don't see this having anything to do with Python.

Geremy Condra


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 02:35:49 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 07:35:49 GMT
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.17.07.35.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:09:27 -0800, John Nagle wrote:

>     Yes, we're now at the point where all the built-in mutable types
> have "frozen" versions.  But we don't have that for objects.  It's
> generally considered a good thing in language design to offer, for user
> defined types, most of the functionality of built-in ones.


It's not hard to build immutable user-defined types. Whether they're 
immutable enough is another story :)



>>> class FrozenMeta(type):
...     def __new__(meta, classname, bases, classDict):
...         def __setattr__(*args):
...             raise TypeError("can't change immutable class")
...         classDict['__setattr__'] = __setattr__
...         classDict['__delattr__'] = __setattr__
...         return type.__new__(meta, classname, bases, classDict)
...
>>>
>>> class Thingy(object):
...     __metaclass__ = FrozenMeta
...     def __init__(self, x):
...         self.__dict__['x'] = x
...
>>>
>>>
>>> t = Thingy(45)
>>> t.x
45
>>> t.x = 42
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 4, in __setattr__
TypeError: can't change immutable class


It's a bit ad hoc, but it seems to work for me. Unfortunately there's no 
way to change __dict__ to a "write once, read many" dict.





-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 02:36:08 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 07:36:08 GMT
Subject: Shipping Executables
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2641.1266390065.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.17.07.36.09@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:00:59 -0500, geremy condra quoted Banibrata Dutta
<banibrata.dutta at gmail.com>:

>> BTW for people who are non-believers in something being worth stealing
>> needing protection, need to read about the Skype client.

Pardon me for breaking threading, but the original post has not come 
through to my provider, only the reply from Geremy.

Many things are worth stealing and therefore need protection.

In any case, reverse engineering software is not theft. And even if it 
were, keeping the source code secret is no barrier to a competent, 
determined attacker or investigator. Skype is a good example: despite the 
lack of source code and the secret protocol, analysts were able to 
discover that TOM-Skype sends personally identifiable information, 
encryption keys and private messages back to central servers.

In my personal opinion, releasing closed source software is prima facie 
evidence that the software is or does something bad: leaking personal 
information, infringing somebody else's copyright or patent, or just 
being badly written. I'm not saying that every piece of closed source 
software is like that, but when you hide the source, the burden of proof 
is on you to prove that you're not hiding something unpleasant.



-- 
Steven


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 17 02:38:30 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:38:30 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <f3cc57c61002161425n1c187d41qdd33db1c584767bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<f3cc57c61002161425n1c187d41qdd33db1c584767bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlg6eu$s6a$1@ger.gmane.org>

geremy condra wrote:
[...]
> I'd worry about developing a product worth stealing before I
> worried about people stealing it ;)
> 
> Geremy Condra

+1 FAQ entry!

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 17 02:39:43 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:39:43 -0500
Subject: Shipping Executables
In-Reply-To: <8DFBF31D-98D4-425B-A7D1-CC83E60AB02B@semanchuk.com>
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8DFBF31D-98D4-425B-A7D1-CC83E60AB02B@semanchuk.com>
Message-ID: <hlg6h7$s6a$2@ger.gmane.org>

Philip Semanchuk wrote:
> 
> On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:41 PM, rodmc wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been merrily programming away in Python now for a few years and
>> have a couple of applications I would like to possibly publish at some
>> point - with the exception of certain libraries they are more or less
>> 100% Python. However I have read elsewhere online that Python due to
>> it's architecture is not so good for this, especially as it is easier
>> for people to hack into the code. Also where software requires some
>> security aspects I guess it would also not be much use, is this
>> correct?
> 
> 
> Hi Rod,
> The user's ability to hack into the code is usually considered one of
> the strengths of Python & open source software in general. Since most
> Python software that's distributed  is open source, you're doing
> something different than most. It'd help if you explain how you want
> your software to differ from a typical open source distribution. Do you
> not want people to change the code? Are you worried about your code &
> ideas being stolen?
> 
Do remember, though, that the Python license absolutely allows you to
create both open source and proprietary products as you choose.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 17 03:02:13 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:02:13 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
f2ab2154c0a1 at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

> Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...

Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? For example, does Python distinguish 
between functions and procedures?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 17 03:02:56 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:02:56 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message 
<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0 at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, 
Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
> nice feature for Python.
> 
> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)

Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?

What more do you need?


From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 03:44:03 2010
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:44:03 +0200
Subject: GIL state during import
In-Reply-To: <hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <2a8674c61002170044n66ad77bfk3c85744eddf79337@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> On 2/16/2010 4:37 PM, Doron Tal wrote:
>
>> Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
>> file?
>> If not, is it a bug?
>> If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think
>> it should be mentioned in the documentation.
>>
>
> The CPython GIL is a CPython implementation artifact and should not be
> mentioned in the language docs (and is not, as far as I know). Were you
> thinking of something else? And why this specific feature of its behavior,
> whatever it is.
>
> tjr
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

I'm sorry, I should have explained my case better.
Quoting the documentation (
http://docs.python.org/c-api/init.html#thread-state-and-the-global-interpreter-lock
):

 "The lock is also released and reacquired around potentially blocking I/O
operations like reading or writing a file, so that other threads can run
while the thread that requests the I/O is waiting for the I/O operation to
complete."


Since on some cases the IO may be _very_ slow, any IO command which does not
release the GIL can potentially stall the process. There are two problems
(or more...), the first, it may stall the process for unacceptable duration.
The second problem is that it is not an easy task to track down the root
cause of this stall.

In the specific case I'm dealing with, the problematic command is execfile
(at the time of my initial writing I did not know that).

--doron
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From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb 17 04:21:55 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:21:55 +0100
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <m2aav84ux6.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<m2aav84ux6.fsf@valheru.db3l.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <4b7bb533$0$23887$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi David,


Thanks a lot.

As I have pywin32 already installed this is probbaly the way to go.

Meanwhile I implemented already a small module, which is parsing
sc.exe's output, but probably 'll change it as my implementation is a
little clumsy.


bye


N

David Bolen wrote:
> alex23 <wuwei23 at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> News123 <news... at free.fr> wrote:
>>> What is the best way with python to get a list of all windows services.
>>>
>>> As a start I would be glad to receive only the service names.
>>>
>>> However it would be nicer if I could get all the properties of a service
>>> as well.
>> I highly recommend Tim Golden's fantastic WMI module[1].
> 
> Another alternative is the win32service module from the pywin32
> package (which IMO you'll almost certainly want available when doing
> any significant Windows-specific operations) which wraps the native
> win32 libraries for enumerating, querying and controlling services.
> 
> A simple loop could use EnumServicesStatus to iterate through the
> services, OpenService with the SERVICE_QUERY_CONFIG flag to get a
> handle to each service, and then QueryServiceConfig to retrieve
> configuration information.
> 
> Since pywin32 is a relatively thin wrapper over the win32 libraries,
> pure MSDN documentation can be used for help with the calls, augmented
> by any Python-related information contained in the pywin32
> documentation.
> 
> -- David


From dino at phidev.org  Wed Feb 17 04:29:37 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:29:37 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <7u05ulFfmkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain> <hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2597.1266271949.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7u05ulFfmkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1266398977.10498.423.camel@brain>

On Tue, 2010-02-16 at 19:20 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Am 15.02.10 23:12, schrieb Florian Ludwig:
> > On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 18:47 +0100, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> >>> Here there problem with the trac (and other plugin systems I've
> >> seen)
> >>> approach:
> >>>
> >>> You need to define something like:
> >>> |
> >>> | class IAuthPlugin(Interface): [...]
> >>> 
> >>> in your blog software.
> >>
> >> Why? Any reason you can't define it in a separate package the
> >> blog-software depends on, as well as your wiki?
> >
> > That's actually my point - most plugin systems I've seen, like the one
> > trac uses, are not encouraging you to do so. Having a module that just
> > defines an Interface is kind of weird - and in the real world no one is
> > doing it.
> 
> Just because nobody doesn't do it doesn't mean it's not desirable.

Good point.

> IMHO the ones using interfaces usually immediatly implement them for some 
> cases - so you actually get the interface for you authentication 
> framework, and also implement an OpenID plugin for it. And this forms 
> one package. Then you can add new packages that implement other things.

So if I want to implement another authentication mechanism but doesn't
use any of the auth-frameworks code you mentioned you still would depend
on it.

> repoze.who and what are examples for such design.

repoze.who is new for me, it might not actually solve my problem here
but it looks interesting for other tasks :) Thanks.


> >> And then of course, this is not really needed. In Python, behavior
> >> counts, not type-information. So you can get away without any explicit
> >> declared interface. You might chose to not do that, for aestetic
> >> reasons, or better documentation. But you aren't forced.
> >
> > Actually some plugin-systems in python do force you and they check if
> > your "implementation" comply with the "interface".
> 
> I didn't say nobody does it, I just said it isn't needed to get a 
> working plugin system. If you don't want to have a separate package 
> *and* don't want to pull in any unused code, this is pretty much your 
> only option.

Do you know somebody/some project/system/... who does it?

Pulling unused code I definitely want to avoid so I probably will stay
with this way.


> > [...]
> >
> > What do you think? Any obvious pitfalls (besides reinventing something)?
> 
> I don't know what pbus is supposed to do. Nor how it's laid out on a 
> python package level.

Its "the plugin system", connecting "service providers" (plugins) and
"service users". In my example the "users" also are providers at the
same time, the service "auth", provides the service "wiki".

Hope that clarifies my intentions a bit.

Thanks,
Florian


PS I removed you (diez) from the TO list as that bounced. Probably 
   related to the (not existing?) domain nospam.web.de


-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From navanitachora at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 04:58:43 2010
From: navanitachora at gmail.com (Nandakumar Chandrasekhar)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:58:43 +0800
Subject: Replacement for e.message() in python 2.6
Message-ID: <0PKdnTVryZFJIObWnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>

Dear Folks,

In previous versions of Python I used to use e.message() to print out 
the error message of an exception like so:

try:
	result = x / y
except ZeroDivisionError, e:
	print e.message()

Unfortunately in Python 2.6 the message method is deprecated.

Is there any replacement for the message method in Python 2.6 or is 
there any best practice that should be used in Python from now on?

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,
Nanda


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Feb 17 04:59:38 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:59:38 -0500
Subject: GIL state during import
In-Reply-To: <hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>
References: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B7BBE0A.10509@ieee.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">On 
> 2/16/2010 4:37 PM, Doron Tal wrote:
>> Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
>> file?
>> If not, is it a bug?
>> If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think
>> it should be mentioned in the documentation.
>
> The CPython GIL is a CPython implementation artifact and should not be 
> mentioned in the language docs (and is not, as far as I know). Were 
> you thinking of something else? And why this specific feature of its 
> behavior, whatever it is.
>
> tjr
>
Threading vs. imports is mentioned at least once in the Python docs.  
See   http://docs.python.org/library/threading.html, section 17.2.9 (at 
least in version 2.6.4)

"""While the import machinery is thread safe, there are two key 
restrictions on threaded imports due to inherent limitations in the way 
that thread safety is provided:

    * Firstly, other than in the main module, an import should not have
      the side effect of spawning a new thread and then waiting for that
      thread in any way. Failing to abide by this restriction can lead
      to a deadlock if the spawned thread directly or indirectly
      attempts to import a module.
    * Secondly, all import attempts must be completed before the
      interpreter starts shutting itself down. This can be most easily
      achieved by only performing imports from non-daemon threads
      created through the threading module. Daemon threads and threads
      created directly with the thread module will require some other
      form of synchronization to ensure they do not attempt imports
      after system shutdown has commenced. Failure to abide by this
      restriction will lead to intermittent exceptions and crashes
      during interpreter shutdown (as the late imports attempt to access
      machinery which is no longer in a valid state).

"""

So it may or may not use the GIL, but there are thread restrictions 
during an import.  The rule I try to follow is not to do anything 
non-trivial during top-level code of a module, except inside the
  if __name__ == "__main__":

portion.  If we're inside that portion, we're not a module, we're a script.

Even better, import all your modules before starting any new threads.

DaveA




From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 05:18:52 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:18:52 +0000
Subject: Replacement for e.message() in python 2.6
References: <0PKdnTVryZFJIObWnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <m28wasi2r7.fsf@googlemail.com>

Nandakumar Chandrasekhar <navanitachora at gmail.com> writes:

> Dear Folks,
>
> In previous versions of Python I used to use e.message() to print out
> the error message of an exception like so:
>
> try:
> 	result = x / y
> except ZeroDivisionError, e:
> 	print e.message()
>
> Unfortunately in Python 2.6 the message method is deprecated.
>
> Is there any replacement for the message method in Python 2.6 or is
> there any best practice that should be used in Python from now on?

You can just use the __str__() method of the BaseException object for
this.  So instead of

    print e.message

You can write

    print str(e)

which in turn is equivalent to

    print e

For more details see PEP 352 (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0352/)

-- 
Arnaud


From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 05:31:45 2010
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:31:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection 
	between Python and Haskell?
References: <t3pln5dilpl922ffssjf5bh5dqrakccorp@4ax.com>
	<009d33cc-75da-4afe-9715-31e820ddc54e@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f932cb6a-d17f-4037-a85c-893319a85d55@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 2:04?am, Carl Banks <pavlovevide... at gmail.com> wrote:

> > Hubris connects Ruby to Haskell, will there be such a connection
> > between Python and Haskell?
>
> I would have expected Hubris to link Ada and Common Lisp together.
>
> Carl Banks

;-)

    J^n


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 17 05:46:02 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:46:02 +0100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlferb$ico$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlferb$ico$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b7bc8e4$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Aahz a ?crit :
> In article <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0 at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> Jonathan Gardner  <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
>> I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
>> nice feature for Python.
>>
>> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
>> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>>
>> I became enlightened.
> 
> +1 QOTW

++1 QOTW !-)

Had the same problem trying to debug some javascript...


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 17 05:48:54 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:48:54 +0100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro a ?crit :
> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
> f2ab2154c0a1 at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> 
>> Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
> 
> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? 

Python is (by design) a statement-based language, so yes, this 
distinction is pythonic !-)


From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 06:02:06 2010
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:02:06 +0200
Subject: GIL state during import
In-Reply-To: <4B7BBE0A.10509@ieee.org>
References: <2a8674c61002161337l2932e29flcd61adf8a7e808a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlf83i$q8u$2@ger.gmane.org> <4B7BBE0A.10509@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <2a8674c61002170302t28ed24eei9d9960c966b78011@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Dave Angel <davea at ieee.org> wrote:

> Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>  <div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">On 2/16/2010
>> 4:37 PM, Doron Tal wrote:
>>
>>> Is the GIL released during import statement execution when accessing the
>>> file?
>>> If not, is it a bug?
>>> If it is not a bug, or it is here to stay for any other reason, I think
>>> it should be mentioned in the documentation.
>>>
>>
>> The CPython GIL is a CPython implementation artifact and should not be
>> mentioned in the language docs (and is not, as far as I know). Were you
>> thinking of something else? And why this specific feature of its behavior,
>> whatever it is.
>>
>> tjr
>>
>>  Threading vs. imports is mentioned at least once in the Python docs.  See
>   http://docs.python.org/library/threading.html, section 17.2.9 (at least
> in version 2.6.4)
>
> """While the import machinery is thread safe, there are two key
> restrictions on threaded imports due to inherent limitations in the way that
> thread safety is provided:
>
>   * Firstly, other than in the main module, an import should not have
>     the side effect of spawning a new thread and then waiting for that
>     thread in any way. Failing to abide by this restriction can lead
>     to a deadlock if the spawned thread directly or indirectly
>     attempts to import a module.
>   * Secondly, all import attempts must be completed before the
>     interpreter starts shutting itself down. This can be most easily
>     achieved by only performing imports from non-daemon threads
>     created through the threading module. Daemon threads and threads
>     created directly with the thread module will require some other
>     form of synchronization to ensure they do not attempt imports
>     after system shutdown has commenced. Failure to abide by this
>     restriction will lead to intermittent exceptions and crashes
>     during interpreter shutdown (as the late imports attempt to access
>     machinery which is no longer in a valid state).
>
> """
>
> So it may or may not use the GIL, but there are thread restrictions during
> an import.  The rule I try to follow is not to do anything non-trivial
> during top-level code of a module, except inside the
>  if __name__ == "__main__":
>
> portion.  If we're inside that portion, we're not a module, we're a script.
>
> Even better, import all your modules before starting any new threads.
>
> DaveA
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

No argue here.
The specific problem, as I wrote in reply to Terry, is with the execfile
statement. It might be a part of some online plugin machinery. In such case
the nature of the cause does not allow to execute it upfront.
I think that the problem can be circumvented by first reading the file
followed by compile and eval, as being done in Python3 (no execfile there).

--doron
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 06:43:23 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:43:23 +0100
Subject: Wrestling with the Py2exe Install, Win7, Py2.5
In-Reply-To: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlgkmr$9k9$1@ger.gmane.org>

W. eWatson wrote:
> I've finally decided to see if I could make an executable out of a py 
> file. Win7. Py2.5. I brought down the install file and proceeded with 
> the install. I got two warning messages. Forgot the first. The second 
> said,"Could not set the key value." I again used OK. I think that was 
> the only choice. It then issued a message in a larger dialog. It was 
> about setting a key, and pointed me to a log. It mentions a Removepy2exe -u
> 
> Although it finished, I have no idea where the program is. It does not 
> show up on the Start menu All Programs List nore my desktop. What's up?
> 
> I've had these messages (key) occur on other Python installs as I 
> transition to Win7. So far no problem.
> 

You may want to consider dumping the thing and going for PyInstaller, 
which in my experience is better and has friendly developer community 
behind it.

Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 06:44:16 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:44:16 +0100
Subject: Wrestling with the Py2exe Install, Win7, Py2.5
In-Reply-To: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlgkog$9k9$2@ger.gmane.org>

W. eWatson wrote:


P.S. I didn't really use PyInstaller on Windows, though -- just on 
Linux, where it works beautifully.

Regards,
mk



From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Wed Feb 17 06:44:49 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:44:49 -0500
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <eae285401002170344q724eecf9kaca550a089a91339@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 3:15 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:

> One possible implementation would be
> to have unfrozen objects managed by reference counting and locking as
> in CPython.  Frozen objects would live in a different memory space and be
> garbage collected by a concurrent garbage collector.
>

A concurrent garbage collector for frozen object would still need to walk
unfrozen objects, to find references to frozen objects.


--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com>
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From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 08:25:03 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:25:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<07d50b9f-c4bb-4d49-82d0-bd6d1c2e42be@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0beb548b-2aa9-4708-86ee-c89dec988502@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Phlip <phlip2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This paper _almost_ gets the idea:http://www.netobjectives.com/download/Code%20Qualities%20and%20Practi...
>
>
> Do you run your tests after the fewest possible edits? Such as 1-3
> lines of code?
>

Hi!
I run my tests all the time (they almost replaced debugger in my IDE).
But there are times, when I can't just run tests after 1-3 lines of
code.
For example, I am developing an application that talks to some web
service. One of methods of a class, which implements API for a given
web service, should parse xml response from web service. At first, I
hardcoded returned values, so that they looked like already parsed.
But further, additional tests forced me to actually operate with
sample xml data instead of hardcoded values. So I created sample xml
file that resembled response from server. And after that I can't just
write 1-3 lines between each test. Because I need to read() the file
and sort it out in a loop (at least 6-9 lines of code for small xml
file). And only after this procedure I run my tests with the hope that
they all pass.
Maybe it's not proper TDD, but I can't figure out how to reduce period
between running tests in a case above.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 08:53:38 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:53:38 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
Message-ID: <hlgsb2$2ta$1@ger.gmane.org>

Found in Dive into Python:

"""Guido, the original author of Python, explains method overriding this 
way: "Derived classes may override methods of their base classes. 
Because methods have no special privileges when calling other methods of 
the same object, a method of a base class that calls another method 
defined in the same base class, may in fact end up calling a method of a 
derived class that overrides it. (For C++ programmers: all methods in 
Python are effectively virtual.)" """

So, I set out to create such case:

class A(object):
     def __init__(self):
         print "A"

     def met(self):
         print "I'm A's method"

     def overriden(self):
         print "I'm A's method to be overriden"

     def calling_overriden(self):
         self.overriden()

class B(object):
     def __init__(self):
         print "B"

     def met(self):
         print "I'm B's method"


class C(A):
     def __init__(self, arg):
         print "C","arg=",arg
         A.__init__(self)

     def met(self):
         print "I'm C's method"


class D(B):
     def __init__(self, arg):
         print "D", "arg=",arg
         B.__init__(self)

     def met(self):
         print "I'm D's method"


class E(C,D):
     def __init__(self, arg):
         print "E", "arg=",arg
         C.__init__(self, arg)
         D.__init__(self, arg)

     def some(self):
         self.met()

     def overriden(self):
         print "I'm really E's method"

e = E(10)
print 'MRO:', ' '.join([c.__name__ for c in E.__mro__])
e.some()
e.calling_overriden()


Result:
...
MRO: E C A D B object
I'm C's method
I'm really E's method


Is what I concocted in e.calling_overriden() == what Guido said on base 
class sometimes calling overriden method instead of its own original method?

Regards,
mk



From userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 08:53:50 2010
From: userprogoogle-139 at yahoo.co.uk (rodmc)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:53:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shipping Executables
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8DFBF31D-98D4-425B-A7D1-CC83E60AB02B@semanchuk.com>
	<mailman.2643.1266392709.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <216c9f16-e952-410b-b0e2-d72b999d557f@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>


> > Hi Rod,
> > The user's ability to hack into the code is usually considered one of
> > the strengths of Python & open source software in general. Since most
> > Python software that's distributed ?is open source, you're doing
> > something different than most. It'd help if you explain how you want
> > your software to differ from a typical open source distribution. Do you
> > not want people to change the code? Are you worried about your code &
> > ideas being stolen?

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

Normally I have no problem with adopting an open source model, indeed
I usually encourage it. However the main problem was related to end-
user licencing e.g. via some form of registration key. The other
problem was related to end-user private data and sending this via a
secure Internet connection. While I am ok with secure Internet
connection side of it I was concerned that with the source code being
available to others the security may in some way be reduced- however I
note one reply which says this is not the case.


Kind regards,

rod



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:25:06 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:25:06 +0000
Subject: Over(joy)riding
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:

> Found in Dive into Python:
>
> """Guido, the original author of Python, explains method overriding
> this way: "Derived classes may override methods of their base
> classes. Because methods have no special privileges when calling other
> methods of the same object, a method of a base class that calls
> another method defined in the same base class, may in fact end up
> calling a method of a derived class that overrides it. (For C++
> programmers: all methods in Python are effectively virtual.)" """
>
> So, I set out to create such case:
>
> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         print "A"
>
>     def met(self):
>         print "I'm A's method"
>
>     def overriden(self):
>         print "I'm A's method to be overriden"
>
>     def calling_overriden(self):
>         self.overriden()
[...]
> class E(C,D):
>     def __init__(self, arg):
>         print "E", "arg=",arg
>         C.__init__(self, arg)
>         D.__init__(self, arg)
>
>     def some(self):
>         self.met()
>
>     def overriden(self):
>         print "I'm really E's method"
>
> e = E(10)
> print 'MRO:', ' '.join([c.__name__ for c in E.__mro__])
> e.some()
> e.calling_overriden()
>
>
> Result:
> ...
> MRO: E C A D B object
> I'm C's method
> I'm really E's method
>
>
> Is what I concocted in e.calling_overriden() == what Guido said on
> base class sometimes calling overriden method instead of its own
> original method?

Yes!

-- 
Arnaud


From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:26:33 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:26:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 10:30?pm, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> writes:
> > And I have already refused to write totally isolated tests, because it
> > looks like a great waste of time.
>
> It only looks like that until you chase your tail in a long, fruitless
> debugging session because (you later realise) the behaviour of one test
> is being affected by another. Test isolation is essential to ensure that
> your tests are doing what you think they're doing.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ? ?A ?No? uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater |
> ? `\ ? ? ? than a ?Yes? merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?avoid trouble.? ?Mohandas K. Gandhi |
> Ben Finney

Hi!

Right, isolation is essential. But I can't decide to which extent I
should propagate isolation.
For example, in "Python Testing: Beginner's Guide" by Daniel Arbuckle,
author suggests that if you do unittesting you should isolate the
smallest units of code from each other. For example, if you have a
class:
Class SomeClass(object):
    def method1(self):
        return 5
    def method2(self):
        return self.method1 + 10

According to the book, if you want to test method2, you should isolate
it from method1 and class instance('self').
Other books are not so strict...

And what should I follow as newbie?

Currently, I don't create mocks of units if they are within the same
class with the unit under test. If that is not right approach, please,
explain what are best practices... I am just learning TDD..

with regards,
Maxim


From chyavana at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:27:35 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:27:35 +0800
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
Message-ID: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>

Dear Folks,

I am currently developing a python program, let us call it "generic.py", 
and I am testing out the functions therein by testing them out 
interactively in the python interpreter by invoking python and doing

import generic

Once I hit an error, I need to revise my file and reload the module using

reload(generic)

The difference in syntax between invoking import and reload is really 
costing me time and patience.

Therefore, I would like to ask:

1. Is there a method of auto-reloading a module while developing it and 
testing it with the interactive python interpreter?

2. Is there a better way of developing a program?

Thank you.

Chandra


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Wed Feb 17 09:29:05 2010
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:29:05 +0000
Subject: listing existing windows services with python
In-Reply-To: <hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <4b79e10c$0$30277$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<848fc0ab-8309-4e30-9731-3442f2ca57f2@b1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<hld3gl$che$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4b7a8d08$0$666$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2611.1266323382.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hle4a5$d3m$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2612.1266325296.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hle80m$2c3$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B7BFD31.4010609@timgolden.me.uk>

On 16/02/2010 13:51, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> It doesn't seem to provide ordinary Windows "service"s, but it's a bit unclear
> since e.g. the URL above says

[... snip ...]

Well the useful info in there appears to come from:

   http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa392783%28VS.85%29.aspx

Looking around the matter, I think I'm taking the view that this
is an implementation detail of WMI.

However you use it, WMI is a layer on a layer on layer
(especially if you're using it in Python with my module!)
and it's never going to be the fastest thing going. One
contributory factor will be this particular model of
process-within-process. But I don't feel that it would
help anybody if I were to mention it on my webpages as
there's nothing the casual user can do about it.

In general I tend to unrecommend WMI for something small
in an app which doesn't otherwise use it, unless the
convenience (and it *is* very convenient sometimes)
outweighs the slight performance issue.

Thanks for the heads-up anyway, Alf. I need to get up
to speed with the Vista & W7 issues referred to on
that page as well.

TJG


From xiajunyi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:35:57 2010
From: xiajunyi at gmail.com (Imaginationworks)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:35:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2635.1266369292.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e73d50df-80b5-4847-9060-46e35d0c4a6e@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 7:14?pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
> Imaginationworks wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> > 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> > line in the text file. ?Currently, the whole file was read into a
> > string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> > and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
> > questions are
>
> > 1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
> > list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'
>
> Yes. ? Read the *whole* file into a single string using file.read()
> method, and then search through the string using string methods (for
> simple things) or use re, the regular expression module, (for more
> complex searches). ? ?
>
> Note: ?There is a point where a file becomes large enough that reading
> the whole file into memory at once (either as a single string or as a
> list of strings) is foolish. ? ?However, 30,000 lines doesn't push that
> boundary.
>
> > 2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
> > may suggest?
>
> Again, the re module has nice ways to find a pattern, and return parse
> out pieces of it. ? Building a good regular expression takes time,
> experience, and a bit of black magic... ? ?To do so for this case, we
> might need more knowledge of your format. ?Also regular expressions have
> their limits. ?For instance, if the sub objects can nest to any level,
> then in fact, regular expressions alone can't solve the whole problem,
> and you'll need a more robust parser.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > - Jeremy
>
> > ===== Structured text file =================
> > Object1 = {
>
> > ...
>
> > SubObject1 = {
> > ....
>
> > SubSubObject1 = {
> > ...
> > };
> > };
>
> > SubObject2 = {
> > ....
>
> > SubSubObject21 = {
> > ...
> > };
> > };
>
> > SubObjectN = {
> > ....
>
> > SubSubObjectN = {
> > ...
> > };
> > };
> > };
>
>

Gary and Rhodri, Thank you for the suggestions.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:40:35 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:40:35 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hlgv32$bo7$1@ger.gmane.org>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
>> Is what I concocted in e.calling_overriden() == what Guido said on
>> base class sometimes calling overriden method instead of its own
>> original method?
> 
> Yes!

For a change I achieved resounding success with Python. :-)

P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small kittens.

Regards,
mk



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 09:52:32 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:52:32 +0000
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>

"R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar" <chyavana at gmail.com> writes:

> Dear Folks,
>
> I am currently developing a python program, let us call it
> "generic.py", and I am testing out the functions therein by testing
> them out interactively in the python interpreter by invoking python
> and doing
>
> import generic
>
> Once I hit an error, I need to revise my file and reload the module using
>
> reload(generic)
>
> The difference in syntax between invoking import and reload is really
> costing me time and patience.
>
> Therefore, I would like to ask:
>
> 1. Is there a method of auto-reloading a module while developing it
> and testing it with the interactive python interpreter?
>
> 2. Is there a better way of developing a program?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Chandra

Here is a very simple way to improve what you do, which won't require
you to change the way you work or to learn a new paradigm:

Instead of testing your functions interactively, put your testing code
in a file, e.g. 'program_tests.py'.  Your can then type

    python program_tests.py

at the shell interactive prompt.  To perform the tests again, just
re-execute that file.  If your tests are divided into
different units, you can put these in functions:

    def test_frobz():
        #testing code for frobzation of klops

    def test_frizz():
        #testing code for frizzment of frobzied klops

    # etc..

So if you want to keep doing interactive tests, you can import
program_tests and call whichever testing functions you want.  You may
even have arguments to those functions to test them with different
parameters.

I know some people will point at more 'pro' ways of testing but this has
the merit of being very straightforward.  Then when you move on to more
sophisticated techniques, I think you will understand better the
motivations behind them.

-- 
Arnaud


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 17 09:52:35 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:52:35 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small kittens.

mro is only a "problem" when using MI.


From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 17 09:57:27 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:57:27 -0500
Subject: How to build a list of all modules in standard library?
Message-ID: <1266418647.16023.1360448951@webmail.messagingengine.com>

We're building a py2exe executable that may need to do some
dynamic module imports.

I'm looking for suggestions on how we can mechanically generate a
list of standard library modules/packages to make sure our build
has the full set of Python 2.6.4 libraries.

We're planning on creating a module called stdlib.py that
explictly imports all modules within an "if False:" block of code
per example below and then importing this script (stdlib.py) in
our main script.

# stdlib.py - insure that py2exe imports all modules in its build

if False:
     # list of all standard modules
     import <module -1>
     ...
     import <module-N>

     # list of 3rd party modules
     import win32api
     import wmi
     ...

Any suggestions or feedback appreciated.

Thanks,
Malcolm
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 10:08:28 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:08:28 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hlh0nc$ijb$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> mk a ?crit :
>> P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small 
>> kittens.
> 
> mro is only a "problem" when using MI.

Oh sure! And I have the impression that multiple inheritance is not used 
all that often. What (some) Python code I've read in open source 
projects typically uses single inheritance.

Nevertheless MI is there in Python, might be useful in some cases and 
Guido put it there for some reason, so Citizens Aspiring To Become 
Pythonistas like me work to learn it.

Regards,
mk



From python at bdurham.com  Wed Feb 17 10:10:03 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:10:03 -0500
Subject: Recommendations for cloud based file storage service with Python API?
Message-ID: <1266419403.17892.1360456229@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I'm looking for recommendations on a cloud based file storage
service with a Python API.

Would appreciate hearing feedback from anyone using Python to
interface to Amazon S3, RackSpace Cloud Files, Microsoft Azure,
Rsync.net, or other hosted file storage service. What services do
you recommend or suggest we avoid? Are there Python specific
issues (such as lagging library updates when an API gets updated)
I should be concerned about?

Our use case is mananging thousands of 100K-500K data files owned
by hundreds of users.

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 17 10:14:19 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:14:19 +0100
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
In-Reply-To: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B7C07CB.3000702@sequans.com>

R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> I am currently developing a python program, let us call it 
> "generic.py", and I am testing out the functions therein by testing 
> them out interactively in the python interpreter by invoking python 
> and doing
>
> import generic
>
> Once I hit an error, I need to revise my file and reload the module using
>
> reload(generic)
>
> The difference in syntax between invoking import and reload is really 
> costing me time and patience.
>
> Therefore, I would like to ask:
>
> 1. Is there a method of auto-reloading a module while developing it 
> and testing it with the interactive python interpreter?
>
> 2. Is there a better way of developing a program?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Chandra
You will always find people explaining to you how it can be possible if 
you really know precisely how python object model works. If you actually 
do, you can possibly read their technics.
But my short answer would be "No, there is no reliable way to reload a 
module".

Still there is 'reload' builting function you can call on any module, by 
you must understand that it won't affect any other object that the 
module itself. New objects created from that module will take effects, 
but all objects created before won't.

JM


From kwmsmith at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:00:23 2010
From: kwmsmith at gmail.com (Kurt Smith)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:00:23 -0600
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <hlh0nc$ijb$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <hlh0nc$ijb$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c266a7931002170800t5613afcp3120588bfca4c265@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 9:08 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>
>> mk a ?crit :
>>>
>>> P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small
>>> kittens.
>>
>> mro is only a "problem" when using MI.
>
> Oh sure! And I have the impression that multiple inheritance is not used all
> that often. What (some) Python code I've read in open source projects
> typically uses single inheritance.
>
> Nevertheless MI is there in Python, might be useful in some cases and Guido
> put it there for some reason, so Citizens Aspiring To Become Pythonistas
> like me work to learn it.

In case you're not familiar with it, MI allows you to have mixins &
traits.  They work very well if the mixin superclasses don't have any
clashes with the other superclasses, so each mixin adds its own unique
set of methods to the derived class.  Then you don't have to worry
about mro and all that (at least as much).

Here's an article on it, with examples:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/4540/print

Michele Simionato has some criticism of MI pitfalls and has come up
with the straits module to remedy it -- you might be interested.  He
goes into detail here:

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=246488

Kurt


From dyamins at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:04:24 2010
From: dyamins at gmail.com (Dan Yamins)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:04:24 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
In-Reply-To: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>

Really, nobody has any idea about this?   (Sorry to repost.)

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Dan Yamins <dyamins at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi:
>
> I'm wondering what the best way to wrap and modify function calls is.
> Essentially what I want to achieve is to have a function like this:
>
> def Wrap(frame,event,arg):
>      if event == 'call':
>         result = PerformCheck(GetArgumentsFromFrame(frame))
>         if Condition(result):
>             return result
>         else:
>             return [normal function call]
>
> called whenever a "call" event is about to occur.
>
> When I say "return result" I mean:  return that data object instead of what
> the function would have returned, and prevent execution of the function.
>
>
> Is there any way to do this using sys.settrace?  Or perhaps something from
> the bdb or pbd module?
>
>
In other words, what I'm looking for is a way to intercept all function
calls with a "wrapper" --  like one can do using settrace and other
debugging methods -- but, unlike the debugging methods, have the "wrapping"
function actually be able to intervene in the stack and, for instance,
conditionally replace the function call's return with something determined
in the wrapping function and prevent the function call's execution.   I want
to be able to do this by setting a single system-wide (or at any rate,
thread-wide) value, like with settrace, and not have to modify individual
functions one by one.

Could I, for example, set a settrace function that somehow modifies the
stack?  Or is there some much better way to do this?  Or, if someone can
tell me that this can't be done without having to roll my own implementation
of the Python interpreter, that would be great to know too.

Thanks again,
Dan
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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:17:00 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:17:00 -0600
Subject: Recommendations for cloud based file storage service with Python
	API?
In-Reply-To: <1266419403.17892.1360456229@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266419403.17892.1360456229@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <hlh4pr$2lm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-17 09:10 AM, python at bdurham.com wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations on a cloud based file storage service
> with a Python API.
> Would appreciate hearing feedback from anyone using Python to interface
> to Amazon S3, RackSpace Cloud Files, Microsoft Azure, Rsync.net, or
> other hosted file storage service. What services do you recommend or
> suggest we avoid? Are there Python specific issues (such as lagging
> library updates when an API gets updated) I should be concerned about?

I don't have any deep experience with using any of them, it is worth noting that 
the Python interface to the RackSpace Cloud Files API is implemented by 
RackSpace itself and is the premier interface to their API. It won't lag behind 
the API.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:30:24 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:30:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e3803d14-d688-4827-a2dc-eb87004234e2@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 6:26?am, Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:

> Right, isolation is essential.

Please read my reply: Ben is well intentioned but completely wrong
here.

Mock abuse will not cure the runtime isolation problem.



From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 11:32:00 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:32:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<07d50b9f-c4bb-4d49-82d0-bd6d1c2e42be@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0beb548b-2aa9-4708-86ee-c89dec988502@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2dd65d33-5f55-4124-b748-44f7b46320c7@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Lacrima wrote:

> I run my tests all the time (they almost replaced debugger in my IDE).
> But there are times, when I can't just run tests after 1-3 lines of
> code.
...
> Maybe it's not proper TDD

You are still being too literal. The "1-3 lines of code" guideline is
a guideline, not a rule. It means 1 small edit is best, 2 edits are
mostly harmless, 3 is okay, 4 is acceptable, and so on. It's the peak
of the Zipf's Law curve:

http://www.rimmkaufman.com/content/mobydick.png

You "mocked the wire" with that hardcoded XML so that your subsequent
edits can be very short and reliable. Props!


From nagle at animats.com  Wed Feb 17 12:26:46 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <eae285401002170344q724eecf9kaca550a089a91339@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<eae285401002170344q724eecf9kaca550a089a91339@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b7c22c8$0$1651$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Daniel Stutzbach wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 3:15 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
> 
>> One possible implementation would be
>> to have unfrozen objects managed by reference counting and locking as
>> in CPython.  Frozen objects would live in a different memory space and be
>> garbage collected by a concurrent garbage collector.
>>
> 
> A concurrent garbage collector for frozen object would still need to walk
> unfrozen objects, to find references to frozen objects.

    Right.  But the reverse is not the case.  Reference count updating
wouldn't need to look at frozen object space.

    One way to implement locking is something like this:

    Mutable objects have a reference count field, a lock field,
and an "owner" field.  Initially, the owner of an object is its thread.
If an object's only reference is a field of a synchronized object, the
owner is the synchronized object.  Mutable objects with an owner can
be manipulated by that owner without locking.

    When an object reference is passed to another thread or
another synchronized object, the object becomes multi-owner and
the "owner" field is set to null.  Thereafter, the object must
be locked during updates.

    The headache with this is that when an object becomes multi-owner,
so does everything it points to.  So there's a transient as the
system runs down the references, locking objects momentarily and
clearing owner fields.

					John Nagle


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 12:29:36 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:29:36 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <c266a7931002170800t5613afcp3120588bfca4c265@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlh0nc$ijb$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<c266a7931002170800t5613afcp3120588bfca4c265@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlh900$i41$1@ger.gmane.org>

Kurt Smith wrote:

> In case you're not familiar with it, MI allows you to have mixins &
> traits.  They work very well if the mixin superclasses don't have any
> clashes with the other superclasses, so each mixin adds its own unique
> set of methods to the derived class.  Then you don't have to worry
> about mro and all that (at least as much).
> 
> Here's an article on it, with examples:
> 
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/4540/print
> 
> Michele Simionato has some criticism of MI pitfalls and has come up
> with the straits module to remedy it -- you might be interested.  He
> goes into detail here:
> 
> http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=246488

Thanks Kurt, I will certainly look into that!

Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 12:38:14 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:38:14 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
Message-ID: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

OK so I have this:

def print_internal_date(filename):
     f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
     data = f.read(8)
     mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
     return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
     'python file properties'

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
             }

     def __init__(self, fname=None):
         FileInfo.__init__(self,fname)

     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
         FileInfo.__setitem__(self, key, value)
         if key == 'name' and value:
             print value
             self.__get_props(value)

     def __get_props(self, value):
         py_compile.compile(value)
         for tag, fun in PYFileInfo.tagdata.items():
             self[tag] = fun(value)
...


It works. But if I'd like to def print_internal_date in PYFileInfo body 
like so:

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
     'python file properties'

     def print_internal_date(self, filename):
         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
         data = f.read(8)
         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': PYFileInfo.print_internal_date
             }

I get:

c:/Python26/pythonw.exe -u  "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py"
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 53, in <module>
     class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 64, in PYFileInfo
     'internal_date': PYFileInfo.print_internal_date
NameError: name 'PYFileInfo' is not defined


Hmm do I get that class data attributes are defined before class is 
defined?!

Why I would like to do it this way:

1. keeping all the stuff specific to PYFileInfo where it belongs, in a 
class: the print_internal_method does nothing but read timestamp from a 
.pyc file, so it's not a generic function.

2. I guess I could define tagdata in __init__ and be done with it: 
however, it's an instance attribute then and not class attribute: a few 
bytes are wasted. Seriously, however, suppose tagdata or smth like this 
is really large? It would make sense to make it class attribute and not 
instance attribute. So I'm trying to work out if there's a way to do it.


Regards,
mk



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 12:59:11 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:59:11 -0800
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 9:38 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> It works. But if I'd like to def print_internal_date in PYFileInfo body
> like so:
>
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>    'python file properties'
>
>    def print_internal_date(self, filename):
>        f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
>        data = f.read(8)
>        mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
>        return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))
>
>    tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                'size': os.path.getsize,
>                'internal_date': PYFileInfo.print_internal_date
>            }
>

You don't have to (and can't) refer to the class within the body. Class
statements are sort of... odd. They are code which is directly executed, and
the results are then passed into a metaclass/type/whatever and a class
object is created. While within the class body, the class doesn't exist yet.

But you don't need it to.

Just do:

   'internal_date': print_internal_date

The 'def' is in the same local scope as 'tagdata' is.

--S
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:00:45 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:00:45 +0100
Subject: mixins and new style classes
Message-ID: <hlhaqd$oig$1@ger.gmane.org>

 >>> class Person(object):
...     pass
...
 >>> class Friendly(object):
...     def hello(self):
...             print 'hello'
...
 >>>
 >>> Person.__bases__ += (Friendly,)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: Cannot create a consistent method resolution
order (MRO) for bases object, Friendly




But it works for old-style classes:


 >>> class Person:
...     pass
...
 >>> class Friendly:
...     def hello(self):
...             print 'hello'
...
 >>>
 >>> p = Person()
 >>>
 >>> Person.__bases__ += (Friendly,)
 >>>
 >>> p.hello()
hello


Python is 2.6.1.



From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:10:37 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:10:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
Message-ID: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
anyway, I have the following:

_num_frames = 32
_frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
I'm just pseudocoding here.
_values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]

I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.

I would want something similar to the following to be called:

_frames[0].func(_values[0])
_frames[1].func(_values[0])
_frames[2].func(_values[0])
_frames[3].func(_values[0])
_frames[4].func(_values[1])
_frames[5].func(_values[1])
_frames[6].func(_values[1])
_frames[7].func(_values[1])
_frames[8].func(_values[2])
...etc...

Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.

I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:

num_frames = 32
values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
    for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
        offset = index / offset_step
        if offset > offset_values[-1]:
            offset = offset_values[-1]
        frames[index].func(values[offset])

There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
Cheers!


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:14:58 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:14:58 -0400
Subject: Timer
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
I have the following css:

<style type='text/css'>
.splash { position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; z-index:2 }
.page { position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; z-index:1 }
.text {  font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;
text-decoration: none; text-align: justify}
</style>

and the following python:

  if new is not None:
    print '<div class="splash">'
    print '<OBJECT classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
codebase="
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"
WIDTH="%s" HEIGHT="%s" id="myMovieName">' % (str(wn*1008), str(wn*200))
    print '''
<PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="GlobalSolutions.swf">
<PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high>
<PARAM NAME=bgcolor VALUE=#FFFFFF>'''
    print '<EMBED href="/support/flash/ts/documents/myFlashMovie.swf"
quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH="%s" HEIGHT="%s" NAME="myMovieName"
ALIGN="" TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="
http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></EMBED>' % (str(wn*1008),
str(wn*200))
    print '</OBJECT>'
    print '</div>'
    Timer(5, removeCSS, ()).start()

Obviously, the removeCSS isn't going to work in that last line. What can I
put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
TIA,
beno

-- 
The Logos has come to bear
http://logos.13gems.com/
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From gabriel at opensuse.org  Wed Feb 17 13:30:51 2010
From: gabriel at opensuse.org (Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:30:51 -0300
Subject: Timer
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1adde6891002171030m2d83a0a3v93017aa7a1cee55c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi;
> I have the following css:
> <style type='text/css'>
> .splash { position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; z-index:2 }
> .page { position:absolute; left:0px; top:0px; z-index:1 }
> .text { ?font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;
> text-decoration: none; text-align: justify}
> </style>
> and the following python:
> ??if new is not None:
> ?? ?print '<div class="splash">'
> ?? ?print '<OBJECT classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
> codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"
> WIDTH="%s" HEIGHT="%s" id="myMovieName">' % (str(wn*1008), str(wn*200))
> ?? ?print '''
> <PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="GlobalSolutions.swf">
> <PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high>
> <PARAM NAME=bgcolor VALUE=#FFFFFF>'''
> ?? ?print '<EMBED href="/support/flash/ts/documents/myFlashMovie.swf"
> quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH="%s" HEIGHT="%s" NAME="myMovieName"
> ALIGN="" TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash"
> PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"></EMBED>' %
> (str(wn*1008), str(wn*200))
> ?? ?print '</OBJECT>'
> ?? ?print '</div>'
> ?? ?Timer(5, removeCSS, ()).start()
> Obviously, the removeCSS isn't going to work in that last line. What can I
> put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
> TIA,
> beno


I don't think this has anything to do with python.

-- 
Kind Regards


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:36:45 2010
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:36:45 +0200
Subject: Timer
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880dece01002171036t7e198649jd94d2bd789eadf9f@mail.gmail.com>

> What can I
> put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
>

Javascript.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il

Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not
read all list mail.


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:37:56 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:37:56 -0800
Subject: Timer
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002171037s49568919te9840a9dabd37f29@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com>wrote:

> Obviously, the removeCSS isn't going to work in that last line. What can I
> put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
>

Even though you're generating this with python, it doesn't have anything to
do with Python. You'll have to use javascript and DHTML and enable/disable
classes. How to do that is beyond the scope of this group, and might depend
on the browser. I'd go look into jQuery or some such which will encapsulate
such dynamic things better.

--S
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:38:10 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:38:10 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:

> You don't have to (and can't) refer to the class within the body. Class 
> statements are sort of... odd. They are code which is directly executed, 
> and the results are then passed into a metaclass/type/whatever and a 
> class object is created. While within the class body, the class doesn't 
> exist yet.
> 
> But you don't need it to.
> 
> Just do:
> 
>    'internal_date': print_internal_date
> 
> The 'def' is in the same local scope as 'tagdata' is.

Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of 
'self' in print_internal_date signature, bc all other functions in 
tagdata have only a single argument:

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
     'python file properties'

     def print_internal_date(filename):
...

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
             }

That looks weird: a method with no 'self'. Hmm that is probably 
seriously wrong.

This obviously means no other method can call it like 
self.print_internal_date(), because self would get passed as first 
argument, yes?

I checked that print_internal_date can be called on an instance, so the 
same method can be seen as:

- class method -- when used in local scope definition like tagdata, or
- instance method -- when called from an instance or from self?

It should be called ______print_internal_date really. ;-)

I wonder if I'm not trying to make Python things it shouldn't be doing, 
but it's the problem at hand that is leading me into this conundrum: all 
other functions for tagdata use single arguments. I should probably code 
around that anyway..

Regards,
mk





From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb 17 13:39:30 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:30 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> I became enlightened.

If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and
if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
nick name using

local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';

Finding an issue, and not looking for a solution is not called becoming
enlightened ;-)


~$ perl -e '
use Carp;

my $anon = sub { local *__ANON__ = "hello, world"; croak "oops"; };
$anon->();
'

oops at -e line 4
	main::hello, world() called at -e line 5

As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
shown.

If you generate anonymouse functions on the fly based on parameters, you
can encode this into the nice name, of course.

Sadly, often bold statements about a language are made in ignorance.


[1] perl is the program that executes Perl programs ;-).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:51:11 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:51:11 -0800
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002171051o4bc48483qbb82cc65668434f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:38 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
> 'self' in print_internal_date signature, bc all other functions in tagdata
> have only a single argument:
>

Right, I should have caught that.

You can make print_internal_date a @staticmethod.

Or just leave it as a top level function where it was perfectly happy to
live :)


> That looks weird: a method with no 'self'. Hmm that is probably seriously
> wrong.
>

> This obviously means no other method can call it like
> self.print_internal_date(), because self would get passed as first argument,
> yes?
>

It doesn't have to be. It could be a class method-- @classmethod does that,
makes it receive 'cls' the actual class as the first argument. Or a
@staticmethod, in which case it has no first-argument at all.


--S
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From cjw at ncf.ca  Wed Feb 17 13:51:50 2010
From: cjw at ncf.ca (cjw)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:51:50 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>

On 17-Feb-10 05:48 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro a ?crit :
>> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
>> f2ab2154c0a1 at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>
>>> Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
>>
>> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not?
>
> Python is (by design) a statement-based language, so yes, this
> distinction is pythonic !-)
Aren't lambda forms better described as function?

Colin W.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 17 13:53:59 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:53:59 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B7C3B47.5040906@sequans.com>

mk wrote:
> Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
>> You don't have to (and can't) refer to the class within the body. 
>> Class statements are sort of... odd. They are code which is directly 
>> executed, and the results are then passed into a 
>> metaclass/type/whatever and a class object is created. While within 
>> the class body, the class doesn't exist yet.
>>
>> But you don't need it to.
>>
>> Just do:
>>
>>    'internal_date': print_internal_date
>>
>> The 'def' is in the same local scope as 'tagdata' is.
>
> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of 
> 'self' in print_internal_date signature, bc all other functions in 
> tagdata have only a single argument:
>
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>     'python file properties'
>
>     def print_internal_date(filename):
> ...
>
>     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                 'size': os.path.getsize,
>                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
>             }
>
> That looks weird: a method with no 'self'. Hmm that is probably 
> seriously wrong.
> [snip]


Absolutely not. It's called a static method, you have to decorate it 
with @staticmethod though.

class A:
    @staticmethod
    def getInstance():
       return A()

a = A.getInstance()

you have also the class method version:

class B:
    @classmethod:
    def getInstance(cls): # class methods take a class as first parameter
       return cls()


JM


From mccredie at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 13:55:32 2010
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matt McCredie)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:55:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20100217T193110-606@post.gmane.org>

> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check: 
>
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
>     for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
>         offset = index / offset_step
>         if offset > offset_values[-1]:
>             offset = offset_values[-1]
>         frames[index].func(values[offset])
> 
> There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> Cheers!
> 

This is how I would do it, assuming you just want to call the remaining frames 
with the last value.

from itertools import izip

def stretch(seq, n):
    for val in seq:
        for i in xrange(n):
            yield val
    while True:
        yield val

frames_per_value = num_frames // len(values)
for frame, value in izip(frames, stretch(values, frames_per_value)):
    frame.func(value)


Matt





From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Wed Feb 17 14:15:05 2010
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 17 Feb 2010 19:15:05 GMT
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7u2thpFhfbU1@mid.individual.net>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:10:37 -0800 (PST), Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
[snip]
> _num_frames = 32
> _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> I'm just pseudocoding here.
> _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
>
> I would want something similar to the following to be called:
>
> _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> ...etc...
>
> Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
>
> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
>
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
>     for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
>         offset = index / offset_step
>         if offset > offset_values[-1]:
>             offset = offset_values[-1]
>         frames[index].func(values[offset])

Here's my suggestion:

Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 22 2009, 15:35:03) 
>>> import math
>>> import itertools
>>> values = [ 1, 2, 3 ]
>>> f = list( lambda x=i : x for i in range( 10 ) )
>>> n = int( math.ceil( len(f)/float( len(values) ) ) )
>>> for ff, dd in zip( f, itertools.chain(*zip( *n*[values] )) ):
...   print "Function %d applied to data %d." % ( ff(dd), dd )
... 
Function 1 applied to data 1.
Function 1 applied to data 1.
Function 1 applied to data 1.
Function 1 applied to data 1.
Function 2 applied to data 2.
Function 2 applied to data 2.
Function 2 applied to data 2.
Function 2 applied to data 2.
Function 3 applied to data 3.
Function 3 applied to data 3.
>>> 

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 14:15:59 2010
From: wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com (Wolfram Hinderer)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:15:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <950cfd62-ee52-4dbc-803b-38b040b52f32@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 17 Feb., 19:10, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
> anyway, I have the following:
>
> _num_frames = 32
> _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> I'm just pseudocoding here.
> _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
>
> I would want something similar to the following to be called:
>
> _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> ...etc...
>
> Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
>
> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
>
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
> ? ? for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
> ? ? ? ? offset = index / offset_step
> ? ? ? ? if offset > offset_values[-1]:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? offset = offset_values[-1]
> ? ? ? ? frames[index].func(values[offset])
>
> There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> Cheers!

Python 3.1:
>>> def apply_spreaded(funcs, values):
...     num_funcs = len(funcs)
...     num_values = len(values)
...     for i, func in enumerate(funcs):
...         func(values[(i * num_values) // num_funcs])

>>> apply_spreaded([print] * 8, range(5))
0
0
1
1
2
3
3
4



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 17 14:18:39 2010
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:18:39 +0100
Subject: Python version of perl's "if (-T ..)" and "if (-B ...)"?
References: <loom.20100212T145109-685@post.gmane.org>
	<mailman.2446.1265985927.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877hqbu0vk.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>

Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com> writes:

>     if portion is None:
>       content = iter(f)

iter(f) will iterate over lines in the file, which doesn't fit with the
rest of the algorithm.  Creating an iterator that iterates over
fixed-size file chunks (in this case of length 1) is where the
two-argument form of iter comes in handy:

    content = iter(lambda: f.read(1), '')


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 17 14:24:52 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:24:52 -0500
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
In-Reply-To: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C4284.8070709@optimum.net>

On 2/17/2010 1:10 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
> anyway, I have the following:
>
> _num_frames = 32
> _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> I'm just pseudocoding here.
> _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
>
> I would want something similar to the following to be called:
>
> _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> ...etc...

The lines above show that you are using two different series of index 
values. Each function call (more properly, "method call") has the form:

   frames[INDEX_FROM_FIRST_SERIES].func(INDEX_FROM_SECOND_SERIES)

(I've dropped the underscores in the names, for simplicity.) You're 
getting hung up trying to keep the two series of index values in sync. 
But you don't really need to. More below ...

>
> Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
>
> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
>
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
>      for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
>          offset = index / offset_step
>          if offset>  offset_values[-1]:
>              offset = offset_values[-1]
>          frames[index].func(values[offset])
>
> There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> Cheers!

As you've shown above, a "for" loop takes care of the first series of 
index values:

   for index in xrange(num_frames):       # "0" arg unnecessary
       frames[index].func(INDEX_FROM_SECOND_SERIES)

The second series of index values needs to look like this:

   0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 ...

The trick is not to worry about matching the second series to the first 
series. Instead, create an "infinite" second series using a Python 
generator, and use as many of its values as you need. Don't worry about 
the unused values, because the series isn't *really* infinite. :-)

Here's an easy way to create the generator

   import itertools
   second_series_gen = (i/4 for i in itertools.count())

Now, every time you need another number from this series, use its next() 
method. So the above code becomes:

   for index in xrange(num_frames):
       frames[index].func(second_series_gen.next())

-John


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 17 14:27:41 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:27:41 +0100
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlhfv7$8jv$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Andrej Mitrovic wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
> anyway, I have the following:
> 
> _num_frames = 32
> _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> I'm just pseudocoding here.
> _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> 
> I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
> 
> I would want something similar to the following to be called:
> 
> _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> ...etc...
> 
> Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
> 
> I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
> 
> num_frames = 32
> values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
>     for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
>         offset = index / offset_step
>         if offset > offset_values[-1]:
>             offset = offset_values[-1]
>         frames[index].func(values[offset])
> 
> There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> Cheers!

I tried to apply

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bresenham's_line_algorithm

on the problem:

def bresenham(xitems, yitems):
    x1 = len(xitems)
    y1 = len(yitems)

    assert y1 <= x1
    assert x1 > 0

    deltax = x1-1
    deltay = y1-1
    error = deltax // 2
    
    yitems = iter(yitems)
    y = next(yitems)

    for x in xitems:
        yield x, y
        error -= deltay
        if error < 0:
            y = next(yitems)
            error += deltax

if __name__ == "__main__":
    def make_f(i):
        def f(v):
            return "%d --> %s" % (i, v)
        return f
    functions = [make_f(i) for i in range(11)]
    values = ["b%s" % k for k in range(5)]
    for f, v in bresenham(functions, values):
        print f(v)

The implementation is derived from the code on the wikipedia page and 
untested.

Peter


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Wed Feb 17 14:40:17 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:40:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <41aac4b4-2d1c-422c-af6d-604296e95a1a@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 5:48?pm, Imaginationworks <xiaju... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> line in the text file. ?Currently, the whole file was read into a
> string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject.

If you open(filename).read() this file into a variable named data, the
following pyparsing parser will pick out your nested brace
expressions:

from pyparsing import *

EQ,LBRACE,RBRACE,SEMI = map(Suppress,"={};")
ident = Word(alphas, alphanums)
contents = Forward()
defn = Group(ident + EQ + Group(LBRACE + contents + RBRACE + SEMI))

contents << ZeroOrMore(defn | ~(LBRACE|RBRACE) + Word(printables))

results = defn.parseString(data)

print results

Prints:

[
 ['Object1',
   ['...',
    ['SubObject1',
      ['....',
        ['SubSubObject1',
          ['...']
        ]
      ]
    ],
    ['SubObject2',
      ['....',
       ['SubSubObject21',
         ['...']
       ]
      ]
    ],
    ['SubObjectN',
      ['....',
       ['SubSubObjectN',
         ['...']
       ]
      ]
    ]
   ]
 ]
]

-- Paul


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Feb 17 14:44:47 2010
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:44:47 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Stephen Hansen wrote:
> 
>> You don't have to (and can't) refer to the class within the body.
>> Class statements are sort of... odd. They are code which is directly
>> executed, and the results are then passed into a
>> metaclass/type/whatever and a class object is created. While within
>> the class body, the class doesn't exist yet.
>>
>> But you don't need it to.
>>
>> Just do:
>>
>>    'internal_date': print_internal_date
>>
>> The 'def' is in the same local scope as 'tagdata' is.
> 
> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
> 'self' in print_internal_date signature

Indeed. Using it that way, the print_internal_date will not be wrapped
in a method object.

> bc all other functions in
> tagdata have only a single argument:
> 
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>     'python file properties'
> 
>     def print_internal_date(filename):
> ...
> 
>     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                 'size': os.path.getsize,
>                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
>             }
> 
> That looks weird: a method with no 'self'.

It's not a method.

> Hmm that is probably
> seriously wrong.
> 
> This obviously means no other method can call it like
> self.print_internal_date(), because self would get passed as first
> argument, yes?

Unless you make it a staticmethod.

> I checked that print_internal_date can be called on an instance, so the
> same method

s/method/function/


> can be seen as:
> 
> - class method -- when used in local scope definition like tagdata, or
> - instance method -- when called from an instance or from self?

Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
when compared to most mainstream OO languages.

The first thing is that the def statement *always* yield a function
object. Always. If you don't believe it, try the following snippet:

class Foo(object):
    def bar(self):
        return "baaz"

print Foo.__dict__.keys()
print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])


So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ? The
answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.

To make a long story short, the descriptor protocol specify that, when,
during an attribute lookup, a name resolves to a class attribute AND
this attribute has a __get__ method, then this __get__ method is called
 (with either the instance or None and the class itself as arguments)
and whatever it returns becomes the result of the attribute lookup. This
mechanism is what provides support for computed attributes.

Now the trick is that the function type do implement the descriptor
protocol. So when a function is an attribute of a class object and you
try to access it as an attribute of either the class itself or an
instance of the class, it's __get__ method is called with the instance
(or None) and the class. Having access to itself (of course), the
instance (if there's one) and the class, it's easy for it to wrap all
this into a method object. Which is itself a callable object, that when
called mostly inject the instance as first object in the argument's list
and returns the result of calling the wrapped function object.

A (naive) implementation of the whole thing might look like this:

class method(object):
    def __init__(self, func, instance, cls):
        self.im_func = func
        self.im_self = instance
        self.im_class = cls

    def __call__(self, *args, **kw):
        # XXX : all sanity checks removed for readability
        if self.im_self:
            args = (self.im_func,) + args
        return self.im_func(*args, **kw)


class function(object):
   # ...
   def __get__(self, instance, cls):
       return method(self, instance, cls)


So, what makes a function a "method" is not being defined in a class
statement's body (well, not directly at least), it's that it is an
attribute of the class. FWIW, the following code is perfectly legal:

class Foo(object):
    pass

def func(obj):
   print "obj is %s " % obj

Foo.method = func

f = Foo()
f.method()
Foo.method(f)
func(f)

> I wonder if I'm not trying to make Python things it shouldn't be doing,
> but it's the problem at hand that is leading me into this conundrum: all
> other functions for tagdata use single arguments. I should probably code
> around that anyway..

Well, the simple solution is to just leave print_internal_date as a
plain function instead of insisting on making it a method. Python is
100% OO in that everything is an object, but it's not a "pure" OO
language, ie it doesn't require everything to happen in a method. So if
all you need is a function, by all mean just use a function !-)

Now if you really need print_internal_date to be exposed as a method of
PYFileInfo - like, you need polymorphic dispatch - then make it a
staticmethod.

My 2 cents...


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 17 14:46:00 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:46:00 +0100
Subject: plugin / intra process communication system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2645.1266398984.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <1266054643.26540.58.camel@brain>
	<hl8f10$56c$1@ger.gmane.org>	<mailman.2538.1266149112.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7tqr9iFbi7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<mailman.2597.1266271949.28905.python-list@python.org>	<7u05ulFfmkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.2645.1266398984.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7C4778.8090904@nospam.web.de>

>> IMHO the ones using interfaces usually immediatly implement them for some
>> cases - so you actually get the interface for you authentication
>> framework, and also implement an OpenID plugin for it. And this forms
>> one package. Then you can add new packages that implement other things.
>
> So if I want to implement another authentication mechanism but doesn't
> use any of the auth-frameworks code you mentioned you still would depend
> on it.

This depends on your definition of depending... (pun intended).

Sure, the code floats around. But it isn't *used* by your application. 
Why do you bother so much?

>> I didn't say nobody does it, I just said it isn't needed to get a
>> working plugin system. If you don't want to have a separate package
>> *and* don't want to pull in any unused code, this is pretty much your
>> only option.
>
> Do you know somebody/some project/system/... who does it?
>
> Pulling unused code I definitely want to avoid so I probably will stay
> with this way.

Well, it's simply duck-typing, so you find it all over the place. Out of 
my head I only know about e.g. TurboMail, that allows you to specify 
plugins via pkg_resources entry points & simply uses them.

> Its "the plugin system", connecting "service providers" (plugins) and
> "service users". In my example the "users" also are providers at the
> same time, the service "auth", provides the service "wiki".

So it's hypothetical?

To summarize my point again: if you want explicit type-checking or 
zope-style interface implementation, but don't want any code that 
implements this (at least not imported) - you need an explicit package. 
If you don't want this, use duck-typing.

>
> PS I removed you (diez) from the TO list as that bounced. Probably
>     related to the (not existing?) domain nospam.web.de

I post through NNTP, and the email is obfuscated for the obvious reasons.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 14:50:32 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:50:32 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>
Message-ID: <hlhha5$gdu$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 1:51 PM, cjw wrote:
> On 17-Feb-10 05:48 AM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro a ?crit :
>>> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
>>> f2ab2154c0a1 at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
>>>
>>> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not?
>>
>> Python is (by design) a statement-based language, so yes, this
>> distinction is pythonic !-)
> Aren't lambda forms better described as function?

They are expressions that evaluate to function objects nearly identical 
to that produced by the def statememt they abbreviate. The only 
difference is the .__name__ attribute.

Terry Jan Reedy






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 14:57:23 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:57:23 -0500
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <hlgsb2$2ta$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlgsb2$2ta$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hlhhn1$jjt$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 8:53 AM, mk wrote:
> Found in Dive into Python:
>
> """Guido, the original author of Python, explains method overriding this
> way: "Derived classes may override methods of their base classes.
> Because methods have no special privileges when calling other methods of
> the same object, a method of a base class that calls another method
> defined in the same base class, may in fact end up calling a method of a
> derived class that overrides it. (For C++ programmers: all methods in
> Python are effectively virtual.)" """
>
> So, I set out to create such case:
>
> class A(object):
> def __init__(self):
> print "A"
>
> def met(self):
> print "I'm A's method"
>
> def overriden(self):
> print "I'm A's method to be overriden"
>
> def calling_overriden(self):
> self.overriden()
>
> class B(object):
> def __init__(self):
> print "B"
>
> def met(self):
> print "I'm B's method"
>
>
> class C(A):
> def __init__(self, arg):
> print "C","arg=",arg
> A.__init__(self)
>
> def met(self):
> print "I'm C's method"
>
>
> class D(B):
> def __init__(self, arg):
> print "D", "arg=",arg
> B.__init__(self)
>
> def met(self):
> print "I'm D's method"
>
>
> class E(C,D):
> def __init__(self, arg):
> print "E", "arg=",arg
> C.__init__(self, arg)
> D.__init__(self, arg)
>
> def some(self):
> self.met()
>
> def overriden(self):
> print "I'm really E's method"
>
> e = E(10)
> print 'MRO:', ' '.join([c.__name__ for c in E.__mro__])
> e.some()
> e.calling_overriden()
>
>
> Result:
> ...
> MRO: E C A D B object
> I'm C's method
> I'm really E's method
>
>
> Is what I concocted in e.calling_overriden() == what Guido said on base
> class sometimes calling overriden method instead of its own original
> method?

Much more complicated than needed for this point, but I believe yes.




From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Feb 17 15:00:42 2010
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:00:42 +0100
Subject: Over(joy)riding
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2655.1266419271.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2651.1266414793.28905.python-list@python.org>	<m24olghrct.fsf@googlemail.com>	<mailman.2653.1266417594.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c02ac$0$23463$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2655.1266419271.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7c5863$0$24394$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> mk a ?crit :
>>> P.S. Method resolution order in Python makes me want to kill small
>>> kittens.
>>
>> mro is only a "problem" when using MI.
> 
> Oh sure! And I have the impression that multiple inheritance is not used
> all that often. What (some) Python code I've read in open source
> projects typically uses single inheritance.

Single inheritance does indeed cover most of the needs - and FWIW, even
single inheritance is not used as much in Python as in some other more
mainstream OOPLs. This comes partly from duck typing - inheritance is
only used for implementation inheritance, not for type-based polymorphic
dispatch -, and partly from Python's support for composition/delegation
(thru __getattr__). Also - as you noticed - single inheritance is easier
to grasp, and Python's philosophy really values simplicity, readability,
maintainability, and coder's mental health !-)

> Nevertheless MI is there in Python, might be useful in some cases and
> Guido put it there for some reason,

Indeed. As with most Python's "advanced" features, it's there so you can
use it when appropriate.

> so Citizens Aspiring To Become
> Pythonistas like me work to learn it.

FWIW, I very rarely had to use it myself in almost 10 years of Python
programming - main exceptions being Zope2 stuff (which is IMHO highly
unpythonic) and a couple mixin classes here and there.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 15:21:51 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:21:51 -0500
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
In-Reply-To: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlhj4u$oi9$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 9:27 AM, R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> I am currently developing a python program, let us call it "generic.py",
> and I am testing out the functions therein by testing them out
> interactively in the python interpreter by invoking python and doing
>
> import generic
>
> Once I hit an error, I need to revise my file and reload the module using
>
> reload(generic)

Reload is sufficiently flakey that it has been removed in 3.x. The 
problem is that it genearally only *partially* replaces the module, so 
that some code uses the old version and some the new. Guido tried to 
rewrite it but gave up and removed it. The most sensible way to 
completely remove a module is to shutdown and restart the interpreter.

> The difference in syntax between invoking import and reload is really
> costing me time and patience.
>
> Therefore, I would like to ask:
>
> 1. Is there a method of auto-reloading a module while developing it and
> testing it with the interactive python interpreter?
>
> 2. Is there a better way of developing a program?

This is what I now do.
Edit
# xxx/module.py

<incrementally written module code>

def _test():
   <incrementally added tests>

if __name__ == '__main__': _test()

with IDLE and hit F5 to run and test. IDLE runs the file in a *fresh* 
subinterpreter as the main module and then, whether or not an exception 
is raised, switches to interactive mode, so one can interactively test 
any objects created (before any exception). The switch to interactive 
mode after running a file can also be done with a command line switch 
when using CPython directly.

Terry Jan Reedy




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 15:28:03 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:28:03 -0500
Subject: How to build a list of all modules in standard library?
In-Reply-To: <1266418647.16023.1360448951@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266418647.16023.1360448951@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <hlhjgm$ppm$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 9:57 AM, python at bdurham.com wrote:
> We're building a py2exe executable that may need to do some dynamic
> module imports.
> I'm looking for suggestions on how we can mechanically generate a list
> of standard library modules/packages to make sure our build has the full
> set of Python 2.6.4 libraries.

Find the source file for the global module index that comes with the doc 
set.

Terry Jan Reedy



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Feb 17 15:31:48 2010
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:31:48 +0100
Subject: mixins and new style classes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2664.1266429605.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2664.1266429605.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7c5fad$0$20740$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
>>>> class Person(object):
> ...     pass
> ...
>>>> class Friendly(object):
> ...     def hello(self):
> ...             print 'hello'
> ...
>>>>
>>>> Person.__bases__ += (Friendly,)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> TypeError: Cannot create a consistent method resolution
> order (MRO) for bases object, Friendly

Indeed. After the addition of Friendly to Person.__bases__, the mro for
Person would be (Person, object, Friendly). But the mro for Friendly is
(Friendly, object). This is not consistent. The right solution would be
to inject Friendly before object, ie:

Person.__bases__ = (Mixin, object)

Now the bad news is that this fails too:

TypeError: __bases__ assignment: 'Mixin' deallocator differs from 'object'

The above problem is not new, and had been discussed here:

http://bugs.python.org/issue672115

...and it's still unresolved AFAICT :-/

OTHO, the concrete use case for such a feature seem to be rather uncommon.

> 
> 
> But it works for old-style classes:

Old-style classes are a very different beast.



From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Wed Feb 17 15:34:51 2010
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:34:51 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <4B7C57C7.2000701@optimum.net>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4B7C57C7.2000701@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4b7c6064$0$20740$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

John Posner a ?crit :
> On 2/17/2010 2:44 PM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> 
> Very nice writeup, Bruno -- thanks!

<blush />

> <snip>
> 
>>
>>
>>      def __call__(self, *args, **kw):
>>          # XXX : all sanity checks removed for readability
>>          if self.im_self:
>>              args = (self.im_func,) + args
> 
> In the line above, I think you meant:
> 
>                args = (self.im_self,) + args

oops :?

Yes, indeed. Thanks for the correction.


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 15:54:42 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:54:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4B7C4284.8070709@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <9049f975-cd60-4591-a73b-1142a0728ee7@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 8:24?pm, John Posner <jjpos... at optimum.net> wrote:
> On 2/17/2010 1:10 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I couldn't figure out a better description for the Subject line, but
> > anyway, I have the following:
>
> > _num_frames = 32
> > _frames = range(0, _num_frames) # This is a list of actual objects,
> > I'm just pseudocoding here.
> > _values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> > I want to call a function of _frames for each frame with a _values
> > argument, but in a way to "spread out" the actual values.
>
> > I would want something similar to the following to be called:
>
> > _frames[0].func(_values[0])
> > _frames[1].func(_values[0])
> > _frames[2].func(_values[0])
> > _frames[3].func(_values[0])
> > _frames[4].func(_values[1])
> > _frames[5].func(_values[1])
> > _frames[6].func(_values[1])
> > _frames[7].func(_values[1])
> > _frames[8].func(_values[2])
> > ...etc...
>
> The lines above show that you are using two different series of index
> values. Each function call (more properly, "method call") has the form:
>
> ? ?frames[INDEX_FROM_FIRST_SERIES].func(INDEX_FROM_SECOND_SERIES)
>
> (I've dropped the underscores in the names, for simplicity.) You're
> getting hung up trying to keep the two series of index values in sync.
> But you don't really need to. More below ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Both the _values list and _frames list can be of variable and uneven
> > size, which is what is giving me the problems. I'm using Python 2.6.
>
> > I've tried the following workaround, but it often gives me inaccurate
> > results (due to integer division), so I had to add a safety check:
>
> > num_frames = 32
> > values = [0, 1, 2, 3, 4]
> > offset_step = num_frames / len(values)
> > ? ? ?for index in xrange(0, num_frames):
> > ? ? ? ? ?offset = index / offset_step
> > ? ? ? ? ?if offset> ?offset_values[-1]:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?offset = offset_values[-1]
> > ? ? ? ? ?frames[index].func(values[offset])
>
> > There has to be a better way to do this. I'd appreciate any help.
> > Cheers!
>
> As you've shown above, a "for" loop takes care of the first series of
> index values:
>
> ? ?for index in xrange(num_frames): ? ? ? # "0" arg unnecessary
> ? ? ? ?frames[index].func(INDEX_FROM_SECOND_SERIES)
>
> The second series of index values needs to look like this:
>
> ? ?0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3 ...
>
> The trick is not to worry about matching the second series to the first
> series. Instead, create an "infinite" second series using a Python
> generator, and use as many of its values as you need. Don't worry about
> the unused values, because the series isn't *really* infinite. :-)
>
> Here's an easy way to create the generator
>
> ? ?import itertools
> ? ?second_series_gen = (i/4 for i in itertools.count())
>
> Now, every time you need another number from this series, use its next()
> method. So the above code becomes:
>
> ? ?for index in xrange(num_frames):
> ? ? ? ?frames[index].func(second_series_gen.next())
>
> -John

That's a cool trick, but maybe I wasn't specific enough. The values
series are the range of values that the frames.func() function should
use, it should not overflow, and I would want the function to use as
evenly distributed number of values as possible from the first series.
The "0000,1111" was just an example. Let me see if I can be more
specific:

values = [2, 3, 4]
frames = [obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4, obj5, obj6]

And the calls:

frames[0].func(values[0])  # func.(values[2])
frames[1].func(values[0])  # func.(values[2])
frames[2].func(values[1])  # func.(values[3])
frames[3].func(values[1])  # func.(values[3])
frames[4].func(values[2])  # func.(values[4])
frames[5].func(values[2])  # func.(values[4])


However the values list might have an uneven number of items. I would
like to make it as evenly distributed as possible, e.g.:

values = [-2, -1, 0]
frames = [obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4, obj5, obj6, obj7, obj8]

frames[0].func(values[0])  # func.(values[-2])
frames[1].func(values[0])  # func.(values[-2])
frames[2].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-2])
frames[3].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-1])
frames[4].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-1])
frames[5].func(values[2])  # func.(values[-1])
frames[6].func(values[2])  # func.(values[0])
frames[7].func(values[2])  # func.(values[0])


I'll be even more specific. I have a Minimum and Maximum value that
the user enters. The frame.func() function is a "translate" function,
it basically moves a frame in the application in one direction or
another depending on the argument value. So frame[0].func(2) would
move the frame[0] 2 pixels to the right. So what I want is the
function to create a smooth transition of all the frames from the
Minimum to the Maximum value. If minimum was 0, and maximum was 10,
I'd want the first frame moved 0 pixels (it stays in place), the last
frame to move 10 pixels, and the frames between are gradually moved
from 1 pixels to 9 pixels relative from their positions.

Perhaps I'm just overcomplicating. I'll have a look at some drawing
apps and see how they've implemented drawing straight lines under an
angle, I guess that could be called a gradual change of values.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I'll have a look at the rest
shortly.


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 17 15:55:35 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:55:35 -0500
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B7C57C7.2000701@optimum.net>

On 2/17/2010 2:44 PM, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>
> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
> beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
> when compared to most mainstream OO languages.

Very nice writeup, Bruno -- thanks!

<snip>

>
> class method(object):
>      def __init__(self, func, instance, cls):
>          self.im_func = func
>          self.im_self = instance
>          self.im_class = cls
>
>      def __call__(self, *args, **kw):
>          # XXX : all sanity checks removed for readability
>          if self.im_self:
>              args = (self.im_func,) + args

In the line above, I think you meant:

                args = (self.im_self,) + args

-John


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 15:57:57 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:57:57 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
In-Reply-To: <15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
	<15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlhl8j$eg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 11:04 AM, Dan Yamins wrote:
> Really, nobody has any idea about this?   (Sorry to repost.)

> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Dan Yamins <dyamins at gmail.com
> <mailto:dyamins at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi:
>
>     I'm wondering what the best way to wrap and modify function calls
>     is.    Essentially what I want to achieve is to have a function like
>     this:
>
>     def Wrap(frame,event,arg):
>           if event == 'call':
>              result = PerformCheck(GetArgumentsFromFrame(frame))
>              if Condition(result):
>                  return result
>              else:
>                  return [normal function call]
>
>     called whenever a "call" event is about to occur.

For yourself as interpreter, execute the above for every call.

For CPython, alternative 1 is to create a custom interpreter to change 
(wrap) the interpretation of the call-function bytecode in the ceval 
loop. That is its 'call event', and I believe this would catch every 
explicit f(args) call and only such calls.

Python has no general metasyntax for changing the semantics of its 
syntax. The __xx__ methods are special cases for the corresponding 
operators *and* the corresponding user-defined class. The '__call__' 
method of a class applies to instances of that class. Alternative 2:

class func_wrap:
   def __init__(self, func):
     self._func = func
   def __call__(self, args, kwds):
     result = PerformCheck(args, kwds)
     if Condition(result):
       return result
     else:
       return self._func(*args,**kwds)

Now wrap *every* function you are interested in. Builtin functions are 
no problem; methods of builtin classes cannont be wrapped without 
subclassing.

Terry Jan Reedy

>     When I say "return result" I mean:  return that data object instead
>     of what the function would have returned, and prevent execution of
>     the function.
>
>     Is there any way to do this using sys.settrace?  Or perhaps
>     something from the bdb or pbd module?
>
>
> In other words, what I'm looking for is a way to intercept all function
> calls with a "wrapper" --  like one can do using settrace and other
> debugging methods -- but, unlike the debugging methods, have the
> "wrapping" function actually be able to intervene in the stack and, for
> instance, conditionally replace the function call's return with
> something determined in the wrapping function and prevent the function
> call's execution.   I want to be able to do this by setting a single
> system-wide (or at any rate, thread-wide) value, like with settrace, and
> not have to modify individual functions one by one.
>
> Could I, for example, set a settrace function that somehow modifies the
> stack?  Or is there some much better way to do this?  Or, if someone can
> tell me that this can't be done without having to roll my own
> implementation of the Python interpreter, that would be great to know too.
>
> Thanks again,
> Dan
>




From joshua.r.english at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 16:00:04 2010
From: joshua.r.english at gmail.com (Josh English)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:00:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
Message-ID: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

I have several pages exported from a private MediaWiki that I need to
convert to a PDF document, or an RTF document, or even a Word
document.

So far, the only Python module I have found that parses MediaWiki
files is mwlib, which only runs on Unix, as far as I can tell. I'm
working on Windows here.

Has anyone heard of a module that parses wiki markup and transforms
it? Or am I looking at XSLT?

Josh


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 16:20:17 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:50:17 +0530
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
In-Reply-To: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002171320v1d11a036h14046f8875084e2c@mail.gmail.com>

why not try installing cygwin. I am just guessing though but I had heard it
emulates *nix decently on windows. Or a better idea is to shift to *nix ;)

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:30 AM, Josh English <joshua.r.english at gmail.com>wrote:

> I have several pages exported from a private MediaWiki that I need to
> convert to a PDF document, or an RTF document, or even a Word
> document.
>
> So far, the only Python module I have found that parses MediaWiki
> files is mwlib, which only runs on Unix, as far as I can tell. I'm
> working on Windows here.
>
> Has anyone heard of a module that parses wiki markup and transforms
> it? Or am I looking at XSLT?
>
> Josh
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 17 16:24:36 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:24:36 +0000
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <m2635v1ror.fsf@googlemail.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:

[...]
> class Foo(object):
>     def bar(self):
>         return "baaz"
>
> print Foo.__dict__.keys()
> print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
>
>
> So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ? The
> answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.

It's true of Python 2.X.  In Python 3 there are no more unbound method:

Python 3.2a0 (py3k:75274, Oct  7 2009, 20:25:52) 
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class A:
...    def f(self): pass
... 
>>> A.f
<function f at 0x445b28>
>>> A.f is A.__dict__['f']
True

-- 
Arnaud


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 17 17:04:47 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:04:47 +1100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:

> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and
> IMHO beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit
> peculiar when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
[?]

Bruno, that's the first time I've understood the descriptor protocol, or
even understood *why* the descriptor protocol is important.

Could you please post (a version of) this as a separate article
somewhere? A weblog post, or a new thread in this forum, or in the
documentation? Somewhere that web searches will find it prominently when
searching for the Python descriptor protocol.

Thank you.

-- 
 \      ?I don't want to live peacefully with difficult realities, and |
  `\     I see no virtue in savoring excuses for avoiding a search for |
_o__)                        real answers.? ?Paul Z. Myers, 2009-09-12 |
Ben Finney


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb 17 17:09:42 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:09:42 -0600
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
References: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87pr43ecpl.fsf@castleamber.com>

Josh English <joshua.r.english at gmail.com> writes:

> I have several pages exported from a private MediaWiki that I need to
> convert to a PDF document, or an RTF document, or even a Word
> document.
>
> So far, the only Python module I have found that parses MediaWiki
> files is mwlib, which only runs on Unix, as far as I can tell. I'm
> working on Windows here.
>
> Has anyone heard of a module that parses wiki markup and transforms
> it? Or am I looking at XSLT?

One option might be to install a printer driver that prints to PDF and
just print the web pages.

Using Saxon or AltovaXML and a suitable stylesheet might give you the
nicest looking result though (but quite some work).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 17:14:07 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:14:07 +0000
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlhpn0$evt$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:
> 
>> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and
>> IMHO beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit
>> peculiar when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
> [?]
> 
> Bruno, that's the first time I've understood the descriptor protocol, or
> even understood *why* the descriptor protocol is important.
> 
> Could you please post (a version of) this as a separate article
> somewhere? A weblog post, or a new thread in this forum, or in the
> documentation? Somewhere that web searches will find it prominently when
> searching for the Python descriptor protocol.
> 
> Thank you.
> 

I'll second, third and fourth this request.  More please Bruno, or from 
anybody similarly qualified.

Thanks very much.

Mark Lawrence.



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 17:17:47 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:17:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2631.1266361075.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4b7b75f9$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<pan.2010.02.17.07.35.50@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <2954a28f-e810-47bc-83d6-b9afb910d9af@w12g2000vbj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 2:35?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:09:27 -0800, John Nagle wrote:
> > ? ? Yes, we're now at the point where all the built-in mutable types
> > have "frozen" versions. ?But we don't have that for objects. ?It's
> > generally considered a good thing in language design to offer, for user
> > defined types, most of the functionality of built-in ones.
>
> It's not hard to build immutable user-defined types. Whether they're
> immutable enough is another story :)
>
> >>> class FrozenMeta(type):
>
> ... ? ? def __new__(meta, classname, bases, classDict):
> ... ? ? ? ? def __setattr__(*args):
> ... ? ? ? ? ? ? raise TypeError("can't change immutable class")
> ... ? ? ? ? classDict['__setattr__'] = __setattr__
> ... ? ? ? ? classDict['__delattr__'] = __setattr__
> ... ? ? ? ? return type.__new__(meta, classname, bases, classDict)
> ...
>
> >>> class Thingy(object):
>
> ... ? ? __metaclass__ = FrozenMeta
> ... ? ? def __init__(self, x):
> ... ? ? ? ? self.__dict__['x'] = x
> ...
>
> >>> t = Thingy(45)
> >>> t.x
> 45
> >>> t.x = 42
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? File "<stdin>", line 4, in __setattr__
> TypeError: can't change immutable class
>
> It's a bit ad hoc, but it seems to work for me. Unfortunately there's no
> way to change __dict__ to a "write once, read many" dict.

Which makes it not really immutable, as does the relative ease of
using a normal setattr:

... t.__dict__['x'] = "foo"
... print t.x
foo
... object.__setattr__(t, "x", 42)
... print t.x
42


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 17 17:46:52 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:46:52 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>
Message-ID: <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:

> Aren't lambda forms better described as function?

Is this a function?

    lambda : None

What about this?

    lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")



From davea at ieee.org  Wed Feb 17 17:56:14 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:56:14 -0500
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
In-Reply-To: <9049f975-cd60-4591-a73b-1142a0728ee7@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<4B7C4284.8070709@optimum.net>
	<9049f975-cd60-4591-a73b-1142a0728ee7@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7C740E.3040200@ieee.org>



Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> On Feb 17, 8:24 pm, John Posner <jjpos... at optimum.net> wrote:
>   
>> On 2/17/2010 1:10 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>
> However the values list might have an uneven number of items. I would
> like to make it as evenly distributed as possible, e.g.:
>
> values =-2, -1, 0]
> frames =obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4, obj5, obj6, obj7, obj8]
>
> frames[0].func(values[0])  # func.(values[-2])
> frames[1].func(values[0])  # func.(values[-2])
> frames[2].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-2])
> frames[3].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-1])
> frames[4].func(values[1])  # func.(values[-1])
> frames[5].func(values[2])  # func.(values[-1])
> frames[6].func(values[2])  # func.(values[0])
> frames[7].func(values[2])  # func.(values[0])
>
>
> I'll be even more specific. I have a Minimum and Maximum value that
> the user enters. The frame.func() function is a "translate" function,
> it basically moves a frame in the application in one direction or
> another depending on the argument value. So frame[0].func(2) would
> move the frame[0] 2 pixels to the right. So what I want is the
> function to create a smooth transition of all the frames from the
> Minimum to the Maximum value. If minimum was 0, and maximum was 10,
> I'd want the first frame moved 0 pixels (it stays in place), the last
> frame to move 10 pixels, and the frames between are gradually moved
> from 1 pixels to 9 pixels relative from their positions.
>
> Perhaps I'm just overcomplicating. I'll have a look at some drawing
> apps and see how they've implemented drawing straight lines under an
> angle, I guess that could be called a gradual change of values.
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I'll have a look at the rest
> shortly.
>
>   
I think you're overcomplicating.  If you have 27 frames, and you want 
frame 0 to move 0 pixels, and frame 27 to move 10 pixels, then you want 
to move frame[i] by i*10/27.  And since you do the multiply first, the 
fact that Python 2.x division gives you integers isn't a problem.

There are fancier methods for drawing lines (bresenham for example), but 
the main purpose of them is to to avoid multiply and divide, as well as 
floats.  But in Python, an integer multiply is just as fast as an add or 
subtract, so there's no point.

DaveA


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 17 17:59:14 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:59:14 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca>
	<hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <hlhsc1$nrn$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/17/2010 5:46 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message<hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
>
>> Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
>
> Is this a function?
>
>      lambda : None
>
> What about this?
>
>      lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")

To repeat: Python lambda expressions evaluate to function objects 
identical, except for .__name__ attribute, to the equivalent def statememnt.

 >>> type(lambda:None)
<class 'function'>
 >>> import sys
 >>> type(lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n"))
<class 'function'>





From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 17 18:17:51 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:17:51 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87eikjcuzk.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> In message <hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
>
> > Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
>
> Is this a function?
>
>     lambda : None
>
> What about this?
>
>     lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")

They are both lambda forms in Python. As a Python expression, they
evaluate to (they ?return?) a function object.

-- 
 \       ?It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to find out |
  `\         how nature *is*. Physics concerns what we can *say* about |
_o__)                                             nature?? ?Niels Bohr |
Ben Finney


From xiajunyi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 18:37:02 2010
From: xiajunyi at gmail.com (Imaginationworks)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:37:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<41aac4b4-2d1c-422c-af6d-604296e95a1a@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e6bd4067-97ea-442f-baa6-edb0c83aaefb@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 1:40?pm, Paul McGuire <pt... at austin.rr.com> wrote:
> On Feb 16, 5:48?pm, Imaginationworks <xiaju... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> > 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> > line in the text file. ?Currently, the whole file was read into a
> > string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> > and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject.
>
> If you open(filename).read() this file into a variable named data, the
> following pyparsing parser will pick out your nested brace
> expressions:
>
> from pyparsing import *
>
> EQ,LBRACE,RBRACE,SEMI = map(Suppress,"={};")
> ident = Word(alphas, alphanums)
> contents = Forward()
> defn = Group(ident + EQ + Group(LBRACE + contents + RBRACE + SEMI))
>
> contents << ZeroOrMore(defn | ~(LBRACE|RBRACE) + Word(printables))
>
> results = defn.parseString(data)
>
> print results
>
> Prints:
>
> [
> ?['Object1',
> ? ?['...',
> ? ? ['SubObject1',
> ? ? ? ['....',
> ? ? ? ? ['SubSubObject1',
> ? ? ? ? ? ['...']
> ? ? ? ? ]
> ? ? ? ]
> ? ? ],
> ? ? ['SubObject2',
> ? ? ? ['....',
> ? ? ? ?['SubSubObject21',
> ? ? ? ? ?['...']
> ? ? ? ?]
> ? ? ? ]
> ? ? ],
> ? ? ['SubObjectN',
> ? ? ? ['....',
> ? ? ? ?['SubSubObjectN',
> ? ? ? ? ?['...']
> ? ? ? ?]
> ? ? ? ]
> ? ? ]
> ? ?]
> ?]
> ]
>
> -- Paul

Wow, that is great! Thanks


From comptekki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 18:48:38 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:48:38 -0700
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>

I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
"['a','b']"

The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []

But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:

a="['a','b']"

b=a[1:-1].split(',')

returns

[ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]

when I want it to return ['a','b'].

How can I do this?

thx,

-wes


From comptekki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 18:53:56 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:53:56 -0700
Subject: error trying to join #python on irc.freenode.net
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002171553m4a0e5949wf8461473ea5d5c13@mail.gmail.com>

When I try to join #python on irc.freenode.net it keeps saying:

You need to identify with network services to join the room "#python"
on "irc.freenode.net".

Server Details:
Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services

What does this mean?

thx,

-wes


From comptekki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 18:56:06 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:56:06 -0700
Subject: error trying to join #python on irc.freenode.net
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002171553m4a0e5949wf8461473ea5d5c13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171553m4a0e5949wf8461473ea5d5c13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002171556t4ad514fgd1eddee0d948391c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I try to join #python on irc.freenode.net it keeps saying:
>
> You need to identify with network services to join the room "#python"
> on "irc.freenode.net".
>
> Server Details:
> Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services
>
> What does this mean?


Nevermind, I think it means I need to register with the service and
supply real username/password.

-wes


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 19:08:32 2010
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:08:32 +0100
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a1002171608h6dd4f936he1417148426da574@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/18 Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com>:
> I have been trying to create a list form a string. ?The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list). ?i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"
>
> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []
>
> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
>
> a="['a','b']"
>
> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
>
> returns
>
> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
>
> when I want it to return ['a','b'].
>
> How can I do this?
>
> thx,
>
> -wes
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

The potentially problematic exec or eval options left aside,
if you really need to do this, you might consider pyparsing; check the example
http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/file/view/parsePythonValue.py

If you know, the input string will always have this exact format
(single quoted comma separated one-character strings between square
brackets), you might use regular expressions to some extent, e.g.

print re.findall(r"(?<=')\w(?=')", "['a','b','c','b','A']")
['a', 'b', 'c', 'b', 'A']

hth,
  vbr


From dyamins at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 19:09:06 2010
From: dyamins at gmail.com (Dan Yamins)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:09:06 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
In-Reply-To: <hlhl8j$eg$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
	<15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlhl8j$eg$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <15e4667e1002171609h5de4fd17y370ead62f7fee737@mail.gmail.com>

> For CPython, alternative 1 is to create a custom interpreter to change
> (wrap) the interpretation of the call-function bytecode in the ceval loop.
> That is its 'call event', and I believe this would catch every explicit
> f(args) call and only such calls.
>
>


> Python has no general metasyntax for changing the semantics of its syntax.
> The __xx__ methods are special cases for the corresponding operators *and*
> the corresponding user-defined class. The '__call__' method of a class
> applies to instances of that class. Alternative 2:
>
>
Terry thanks for your response.

My hoped-for spec explicitly prohibits wrapping required each (user-defined)
function to be wrapped individual, since I want to be able to have this
wrapping behavior apply to many functions created by many users on the fly,
and such users can't be asked to remember to wrap each function.  (At most,
they can be asked to set a single evironment variable or the like at the
beginning of modules or interpreter sessions that should the "turn on
wrapping" for all future function calls.)

So I suppose the situation is as I feared? That the only way to achieve my
goal without having to wrap every (user-defined) function call individually
is to modify the interpreter.   Is there no way to edit frame objects from
inside a function?  if I could do that in a settrace function, would it even
help?

Also: am I right in thinking that the "modified interpreter" approach would
mean that my resulting software couldn't be used as a 3-rd party module,
that could be easily integrated into existing python installations?  Or is
there some standard way of integrating dynamically loadable modifications to
the interpreter in python?  (e.g. so that users of my code wouldn't have to
re-install of their existing modules in a separate new python installation?)

Thanks!
Dan




>
>>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 19:13:05 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:13:05 -0000
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8aqv3fra8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:48:38 -0000, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"

If your string is trusted (i.e. goes nowhere near a user), just eval() it.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 19:37:15 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 00:37:15 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like
	Python to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.00.37.14@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:46:52 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> In message <hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
> 
>> Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
> 
> Is this a function?
> 
>     lambda : None
> 
> What about this?
> 
>     lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")

Of course they are; the first is a function that takes no arguments and 
returns None, and the second is a function that takes no arguments, 
returns None, and has a side-effect of writing "hi there\n" to stout. 

But I imagine you already know that, so I'm not really sure I understand 
the point of your (rhetorical?) question.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 19:47:20 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 00:47:20 GMT
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<op.u8aqv3fra8ncjz@gnudebst>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.00.47.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:13:05 +0000, Rhodri James wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:48:38 -0000, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
>> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
>> "['a','b']"
> 
> If your string is trusted (i.e. goes nowhere near a user), just eval()
> it.

Or use something like YAML or JSON to parse it.

Fredrik Lundh has a simple_eval function which should be safe to use:

http://effbot.org/zone/simple-iterator-parser.htm


But it's fairly simple to parse a simple list like this. Here's a quick 
and dirty version:


def string_to_list(s):
    s = s.strip()
    if not s.startswith('[') and s.endswith(']'):
        raise ValueError
    s = s[1:-1].strip()
    items = [item.strip() for item in s.split(',')]
    for i, item in enumerate(items):
        items[i] = dequote(item)
    return items


def dequote(s):
    for delimiter in ('"""', "'''", '"', "'"):
        if s.startswith(delimiter) and s.endswith(delimiter):
            n = len(delimiter)
            return s[n:-n]
    raise ValueError



>>> s = "['a','b']"
>>> print s
['a','b']
>>> string_to_list(s)
['a', 'b']
>>> x = string_to_list(s)
>>> type(x)
<type 'list'>
>>> x
['a', 'b']



-- 
Steven


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 19:49:45 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:49:45 +0000
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
In-Reply-To: <e3803d14-d688-4827-a2dc-eb87004234e2@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<e3803d14-d688-4827-a2dc-eb87004234e2@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hli2qn$8ni$1@ger.gmane.org>

Phlip wrote:
> On Feb 17, 6:26 am, Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right, isolation is essential.
> 
> Please read my reply: Ben is well intentioned but completely wrong
> here.
> 
> Mock abuse will not cure the runtime isolation problem.
> 

I believe that Ben is perfectly correct, and that you are talking at 
cross purposes because you've missed the significance of his
<quote>
(you later realise)
</quote>
within his post.
Runtime test isolation doesn't enter into from what I can see.
Can you please clarify the situation one way or the other.

TIA.

Mark Lawrence.



From mccredie at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 19:51:39 2010
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matt McCredie)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:51:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <loom.20100218T012556-699@post.gmane.org>

Wes James <comptekki <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 
> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"
> 
> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []
> 
> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
> 
> a="['a','b']"
> 
> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
> 
> returns
> 
> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
> 
> when I want it to return ['a','b'].
> 
> How can I do this?


eval will work, but has a safety issue. It also has the issue of evaluating any 
and everything that a user might pass in. 

If you are using python 2.6 check out ast.literal_eval. It uses python's built 
in ast parser to generate an AST and then traverses it to generate a python 
object. Unlike eval though, it will raise an exception if anything other than a 
literal is represented in the string. I have used the same function in python 
2.5 (copied from 2.6) and it works just fine.

Here is a version modified from the code in python 2.6 that should only parse 
lists of strings:

from _ast import List, Str, PyCF_ONLY_AST

def parse(expr, filename='<unknown>', mode='exec'):
    """
    Parse an expression into an AST node.
    Equivalent to compile(expr, filename, mode, PyCF_ONLY_AST).
    """
    return compile(expr, filename, mode, PyCF_ONLY_AST)


def list_eval(text):
    """
    Safely evaluate an expression node or a string containing a Python
    expression.  The string or node provided may only consist of the following
    Python literal structures: strings, numbers, tuples, lists, dicts, booleans,
    and None.
    """

    node = parse(text, mode='eval').body
    if not isinstance(node, List):
        raise ValueError('malformed string')
    def _convert(node):
        if isinstance(node, Str):
            return node.s
        raise ValueError('malformed string')

    return list(map(_convert, node.elts))




Matt McCredie



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 17 19:58:19 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:58:19 +1100
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y6irbbro.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> writes:

> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"

Pulling back to ask about the larger problem: Are you trying to create
Python data structures from a serialised representation?

There are several well-implemented solutions, including the standard
library modules ?pickle? and ?json?. Do you have control over the choice
of serialisation format?

-- 
 \        ?I went to court for a parking ticket; I pleaded insanity. I |
  `\   said ?Your Honour, who in their right mind parks in the passing |
_o__)                                           lane??? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 17 20:00:50 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:00:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <ba932f5c-bf3b-4b66-9185-cc8b2b81f049@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 10:39?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> > with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> > I became enlightened.
>
> If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and
> if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
> nick name using
>
> local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';
>
> Finding an issue, and not looking for a solution is not called becoming
> enlightened ;-)
>
> ~$ perl -e '
> use Carp;
>
> my $anon = sub { local *__ANON__ = "hello, world"; croak "oops"; };
> $anon->();
> '
>
> oops at -e line 4
> ? ? ? ? main::hello, world() called at -e line 5
>
> As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
> shown.
>
> If you generate anonymouse functions on the fly based on parameters, you
> can encode this into the nice name, of course.
>
> Sadly, often bold statements about a language are made in ignorance.
>

$ perl -e '$a = sub () {die "it may have been javascript, but"}; $b =
sub () {die "I am pretty sure it was perl"}; $b->()'


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 17 20:02:41 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:02:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message
> <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517... at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
> > nice feature for Python.
>
> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> > with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?
>
> What more do you need?

I don't know, but I tend to find the name of the function I called to
be useful. It's much more memorable than line numbers, particularly
when line numbers keep changing.

I doubt it's just me, though.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 17 20:04:00 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
>
> f2ab2154c... at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> > Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
>
> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? For example, does Python distinguish
> between functions and procedures?

Not to the programmer, no. Callables are callable, no matter what they
are, and they are all called the same way.

(What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a
subroutine, a method, or a block?)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 20:06:41 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 01:06:41 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like
	Python  to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.01.06.40@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:30 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> 
>> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
>> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>>
>> I became enlightened.
> 
> If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and
> if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
> nick name using
> 
> local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';
[...]
> As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
> shown.

Given that it has a nice name, what makes it an anonymous function?

It seems to me that Perl effectively has three ways of creating 
functions, one anonymous and two named (even if one syntax for creating a 
named function is almost identical to the syntax for creating an 
anonymous function). Once you annotate a function with a nickname, it's 
no different from giving it a name.

If this is the case, then your answer to "anonymous functions are a PITA" 
is "don't use anonymous functions", which exactly the same answer we'd 
give here in Python land. The only difference is that Perl provides two 
ways of making a named function, and Python only one[1].






[1] Technically, you can make named functions with the new module and a 
bit of work, so Python has two ways too.


-- 
Steven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 17 20:13:23 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:13:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0f783ced-0414-4b44-acf1-79f8d288f41c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 3:48?pm, Imaginationworks <xiaju... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to read object information from a text file (approx.
> 30,000 lines) with the following format, each line corresponds to a
> line in the text file. ?Currently, the whole file was read into a
> string list using readlines(), then use for loop to search the "= {"
> and "};" to determine the Object, SubObject,and SubSubObject. My
> questions are
>
> 1) Is there any efficient method that I can search the whole string
> list to find the location of the tokens(such as '= {' or '};'
>
> 2) Is there any efficient ways to extract the object information you
> may suggest?

Parse it!

Go full-bore with a real parser. You may want to consider one of the
many fine Pythonic implementations of modern parsers, or break out
more traditional parsing tools.

This format is nested, meaning that you can't use regexes to parse
what you want out of it. You're going to need a real, full-bore, no-
holds-barred parser for this.

Don't worry, the road is not easy but the destination is absolutely
worth it.

Once you come to appreciate and understand parsing, you have earned
the right to call yourself a red-belt programmer. To get your black-
belt, you'll need to write your own compiler. Having mastered these
two tasks, there is no problem you cannot tackle.

And once you realize that every program is really a compiler, then you
have truly mastered the Zen of Programming in Any Programming Language
That Will Ever Exist.

With this understanding, you will judge programming language utility
based solely on how hard it is to write a compiler in it, and
complexity based on how hard it is to write a compiler for it. (Notice
there are not a few parsers written in Python, as well as Jython and
PyPy and others written for Python!)


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 17 20:20:42 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:20:42 -0000
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:04:00 -0000, Jonathan Gardner  
<jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-
>>
>> f2ab2154c... at g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>> > Also, lambda's are expressions, not statements ...
>>
>> Is such a distinction Pythonic, or not? For example, does Python  
>> distinguish
>> between functions and procedures?
>
> Not to the programmer, no. Callables are callable, no matter what they
> are, and they are all called the same way.
>
> (What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a
> subroutine, a method, or a block?)

In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had  
no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no  
procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying  
an explicit return value it returns None.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 17 20:20:49 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:49 +1100
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87tytfbaq6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lacrima <lacrima.maxim at gmail.com> writes:

> Right, isolation [of test cases] is essential. But I can't decide to
> which extent I should propagate isolation.

You used ?propagate? in a sense I don't understand there.

> For example, in "Python Testing: Beginner's Guide" by Daniel Arbuckle,
> author suggests that if you do unittesting you should isolate the
> smallest units of code from each other.

I'm not sure what the author means, but I would say that as it stands
that advice is independent of what testing is being done. In all cases:

* Make your code units small, so each one is not doing much and is easy
  to understand.

* Make the interface of units at each level as narrow as feasible, so
  they're not brittle in the face of changes to the implementation.

> For example, if you have a
> class:
> Class SomeClass(object):
>     def method1(self):
>         return 5
>     def method2(self):
>         return self.method1 + 10
>
> According to the book, if you want to test method2, you should isolate
> it from method1 and class instance('self').

I don't really know what that means.

Remember that each test case should not be ?test method1?. That is far
too broad, and in some cases too narrow. There is no one-to-one mapping
between methods and unit test cases.

Instead, each test case should test one true-or-false assertion about
the behaviour of the code. ?When we start with this initial state (the
test fixture), and perform this operation, the resulting state is that?.

It makes a lot of sense to name the test case so the assertion being
made *is* its name: not ?test frobnicate? with dozens of assertions, but
one ?test_frobnicate_with_valid_spangulator_returns_true? which makes
that assertion, and extra ones for each distinct assertion.

The failure of a unit test case should indicate *exactly* what has gone
wrong. If you want to make multiple assertions about a code unit, write
multiple test cases for that unit and name the tests accordingly.

This incidentally requires that you test something small enough that
such a true-or-false assertion is meaningful, which leads to
well-designed code with small easily-tested code units. But that's an
emergent property, not a natural law.

> Currently, I don't create mocks of units if they are within the same
> class with the unit under test. If that is not right approach, please,
> explain what are best practices... I am just learning TDD..

In the fixture of the unit test case, create whatever test doubles are
necessary to put your code into the initial state you need for the test
case; then tear all those down whatever the result of the test case.

If you need to create great honking wads of fixtures for any test case,
that is a code smell: your code units are too tightly coupled to
persistent state, and need to be decoupled with narrow interfaces.

The Python ?unittest? module makes this easier by letting you define
fixtures common to many test cases (the ?setUp? and ?tearDown?
interface). My rule of thumb is: if I need to make different fixtures
for some set of test cases, I write a new test case class for those
cases.

-- 
 \       ?Following fashion and the status quo is easy. Thinking about |
  `\        your users' lives and creating something practical is much |
_o__)                                harder.? ?Ryan Singer, 2008-07-09 |
Ben Finney


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 20:38:29 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 01:38:29 GMT
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<0f783ced-0414-4b44-acf1-79f8d288f41c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.01.38.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:13:23 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> And once you realize that every program is really a compiler, then you
> have truly mastered the Zen of Programming in Any Programming Language
> That Will Ever Exist.

In the same way that every tool is really a screwdriver.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 17 20:39:05 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 01:39:05 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04:00 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> (What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a
> subroutine, a method, or a block?)

The name is used in Pascal, which probably means it originated from 
Fortran or Algol. 

A subroutine is a generic piece of code which can be re-used by some 
unspecified mechanism (GOSUB in Basic, by calling it in most other 
languages). A function is a subroutine that returns a result, and a 
procedure is a subroutine that doesn't return anything (not even None, or 
the equivalent thereof) and operates entirely by side-effect.



-- 
Steven


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 20:44:11 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:44:11 -0500
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
In-Reply-To: <15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com>
	<15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002171744h8eaf9d4m2daa4c48154d8fa2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Dan Yamins <dyamins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Really, nobody has any idea about this??? (Sorry to repost.)
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Dan Yamins <dyamins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I'm wondering what the best way to wrap and modify function calls is.
>> Essentially what I want to achieve is to have a function like this:
>>
>> def Wrap(frame,event,arg):
>> ???? if event == 'call':
>> ??????? result = PerformCheck(GetArgumentsFromFrame(frame))
>> ??????? if Condition(result):
>> ??????????? return result
>> ??????? else:
>> ??????????? return [normal function call]
>>
>> called whenever a "call" event is about to occur.
>>
>> When I say "return result" I mean:? return that data object instead of
>> what the function would have returned, and prevent execution of the
>> function.
>>
>> Is there any way to do this using sys.settrace?? Or perhaps something from
>> the bdb or pbd module?
>>
>
> In other words, what I'm looking for is a way to intercept all function
> calls with a "wrapper" --? like one can do using settrace and other
> debugging methods -- but, unlike the debugging methods, have the "wrapping"
> function actually be able to intervene in the stack and, for instance,
> conditionally replace the function call's return with something determined
> in the wrapping function and prevent the function call's execution.?? I want
> to be able to do this by setting a single system-wide (or at any rate,
> thread-wide) value, like with settrace, and not have to modify individual
> functions one by one.
>
> Could I, for example, set a settrace function that somehow modifies the
> stack?? Or is there some much better way to do this?? Or, if someone can
> tell me that this can't be done without having to roll my own implementation
> of the Python interpreter, that would be great to know too.
>
> Thanks again,
> Dan
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

You could drill down through everything in globals() etc, replacing
functions as you went,
but its fragile (there are probably unworkable corner cases), ugly,
and likely to be slow.
What exactly is it you're trying to do?

Geremy Condra


From john at castleamber.com  Wed Feb 17 21:23:19 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:23:19 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.06.40@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <87ocjncmeg.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:39:30 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

[..]
 
>> If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported, and
>> if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
>> nick name using
>> 
>> local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';
> [...]
>> As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
>> shown.
>
> Given that it has a nice name, what makes it an anonymous function?

You can't do 

nice name();

It just changes what perl reports.

> If this is the case, then your answer to "anonymous functions are a
> PITA" 

I don't think anon functions are in general a
PITA. Like with most things, (I) use them in moderation.

> is "don't use anonymous functions", which exactly the same answer we'd 
> give here in Python land. The only difference is that Perl provides two 
> ways of making a named function, and Python only one[1].

Note that the local trick doesn't create a named function. There are
other ways of course to create named functions in Perl, e.g.

perl -e '*foo=sub { print "hello, world\n" }; foo();'

Which can be fun:

perl -e '
sub AUTOLOAD {
    my $name = our $AUTOLOAD;
    *$AUTOLOAD = sub { local $" = ", "; print "$name(@_)\n" };
    goto &$AUTOLOAD;
}
foo(40);
bar("hello", "world!");
baz(foo(10));'

output:

main::foo(40)
main::bar(hello, world!)
main::foo(10)
main::baz(1)

NB: calling foo 10 returns 1 (return value of print).

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 21:27:41 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 5:39?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04:00 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > (What the heck is a procedure, anyway? Is this different from a
> > subroutine, a method, or a block?)
>
> The name is used in Pascal, which probably means it originated from
> Fortran or Algol.
>
> A subroutine is a generic piece of code which can be re-used by some
> unspecified mechanism (GOSUB in Basic, by calling it in most other
> languages). A function is a subroutine that returns a result, and a
> procedure is a subroutine that doesn't return anything (not even None, or
> the equivalent thereof) and operates entirely by side-effect.
>

Those are useful clarifications, but they are not completely
universal.

Some people make the definition of function more restrictive--"if it
has side effects, it is not a function."

Python's definition of a method is also not universal.  In some
circles, method is more akin to Steven's definition of a procedure--it
does not necessarily have to be associated with a class.

It's all very confusing, which is why Pythonistas are typically
adamant about clarifying definitions within Python's context, which is
understandable.  To the extent that we're all talking about one
programming language, we should use the same terms.

A quick Google search does not turn up an official definition of a
Ruby block, although the term "block" is colloquially used in both
Python and Ruby to refer to a bunch of lines of code executed in a
particular context, like a loop.

Python may not support the broadest notion of anonymous functions, but
it definitely has anonymous blocks.  You can write this in Python:

    for i in range(10):
        print i
        print i * i
        print i * i * i

Python does not force you to do this:

    def do_stuff(i):
        print i
        print i * i
        print i * i * i
    for i in range(10):
        do_stuff(i)


From jmheralds at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 21:29:49 2010
From: jmheralds at gmail.com (James Heralds)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:29:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Draft paper submission deadline is extended: SETP-10, Orlando, USA
Message-ID: <e63e18cd-8cda-4e31-8bf0-114b03a04f33@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

It would be highly appreciated if you could share this announcement
with your colleagues, students and individuals whose research is in
software engineering, software testing, software quality assurance,
software design and related areas.

Draft paper submission deadline is extended: SETP-10, Orlando, USA

The 2010 International Conference on Software Engineering Theory and
Practice (SETP-10) (website: http://www.PromoteResearch.org) will be
held during 12-14 of July 2010 in Orlando, FL, USA.  SETP is an
important event in the areas of Software development, maintenance, and
other areas of software engineering and related topics.

The conference will be held at the same time and location where
several other major international conferences will be taking place.
The conference will be held as part of 2010 multi-conference
(MULTICONF-10). MULTICONF-10 will be held during July 12-14, 2010 in
Orlando, Florida, USA. The primary goal of MULTICONF is to promote
research and developmental activities in computer science, information
technology, control engineering, and related fields. Another goal is
to promote the dissemination of research to a multidisciplinary
audience and to facilitate communication among researchers,
developers, practitioners in different fields. The following
conferences are planned to be organized as part of MULTICONF-10.

?	International Conference on Artificial Intelligence and Pattern
Recognition (AIPR-10)
?	 International Conference on Automation, Robotics and Control
Systems (ARCS-10)
?	International Conference on Bioinformatics, Computational Biology,
Genomics and Chemoinformatics (BCBGC-10)
?	International Conference on Computer Communications and Networks
(CCN-10)
?	International Conference on Enterprise Information Systems and Web
Technologies (EISWT-10)
?	International Conference on High Performance Computing Systems
(HPCS-10)
?	International Conference on Information Security and Privacy
(ISP-10)
?	International Conference on Image and Video Processing and Computer
Vision (IVPCV-10)
?	International Conference on Software Engineering Theory and Practice
(SETP-10)
?	International Conference on Theoretical and Mathematical Foundations
of Computer Science (TMFCS-10)

MULTICONF-10 will be held at Imperial Swan Hotel and Suites.  It is a
full-service resort that puts you in the middle of the fun! Located
1/2 block south of the famed International Drive, the hotel is just
minutes from great entertainment like Walt Disney World? Resort,
Universal Studios and Sea World Orlando. Guests can enjoy free
scheduled transportation to these theme parks, as well as spacious
accommodations, outdoor pools and on-site dining ? all situated on 10
tropically landscaped acres. Here, guests can experience a full-
service resort with discount hotel pricing in Orlando.


We invite draft paper submissions. Please see the website
http://www.PromoteResearch.org for more details.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 21:42:44 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Wrap and intercept function calls
References: <15e4667e1002161629y10b1a116h4bad4990d0c9c73d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<15e4667e1002170804j3ab980a7j467142b9f2c8837@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2677.1266440303.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a21dbc5c-28dd-4d18-9b97-3a0048b37659@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

Terry Reedy <tjre... at udel.edu> wrote:
> Now wrap *every* function you are interested in. Builtin functions are
> no problem; methods of builtin classes cannont be wrapped without
> subclassing.

It's a shame it's not possible to do:

    type.__call__ = func_wrap(type.__call__)

Or even:

    type.__class__ = NewType


From andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 21:59:14 2010
From: andrej.mitrovich at gmail.com (Andrej Mitrovic)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:59:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Traversing through variable-sized lists
References: <d2cd97c3-5691-4f39-a506-a9c5e93268dc@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4B7C4284.8070709@optimum.net>
	<9049f975-cd60-4591-a73b-1142a0728ee7@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2680.1266447393.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5906ad53-5853-4021-8af6-8b91b2a7e3e5@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 11:56?pm, Dave Angel <da... at ieee.org> wrote:
> Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> > On Feb 17, 8:24 pm, John Posner <jjpos... at optimum.net> wrote:
>
> >> On 2/17/2010 1:10 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>
> >> <snip>
>
> > However the values list might have an uneven number of items. I would
> > like to make it as evenly distributed as possible, e.g.:
>
> > values =-2, -1, 0]
> > frames =obj1, obj2, obj3, obj4, obj5, obj6, obj7, obj8]
>
> > frames[0].func(values[0]) ?# func.(values[-2])
> > frames[1].func(values[0]) ?# func.(values[-2])
> > frames[2].func(values[1]) ?# func.(values[-2])
> > frames[3].func(values[1]) ?# func.(values[-1])
> > frames[4].func(values[1]) ?# func.(values[-1])
> > frames[5].func(values[2]) ?# func.(values[-1])
> > frames[6].func(values[2]) ?# func.(values[0])
> > frames[7].func(values[2]) ?# func.(values[0])
>
> > I'll be even more specific. I have a Minimum and Maximum value that
> > the user enters. The frame.func() function is a "translate" function,
> > it basically moves a frame in the application in one direction or
> > another depending on the argument value. So frame[0].func(2) would
> > move the frame[0] 2 pixels to the right. So what I want is the
> > function to create a smooth transition of all the frames from the
> > Minimum to the Maximum value. If minimum was 0, and maximum was 10,
> > I'd want the first frame moved 0 pixels (it stays in place), the last
> > frame to move 10 pixels, and the frames between are gradually moved
> > from 1 pixels to 9 pixels relative from their positions.
>
> > Perhaps I'm just overcomplicating. I'll have a look at some drawing
> > apps and see how they've implemented drawing straight lines under an
> > angle, I guess that could be called a gradual change of values.
>
> > Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I'll have a look at the rest
> > shortly.
>
> I think you're overcomplicating. ?If you have 27 frames, and you want
> frame 0 to move 0 pixels, and frame 27 to move 10 pixels, then you want
> to move frame[i] by i*10/27. ?And since you do the multiply first, the
> fact that Python 2.x division gives you integers isn't a problem.
>
> There are fancier methods for drawing lines (bresenham for example), but
> the main purpose of them is to to avoid multiply and divide, as well as
> floats. ?But in Python, an integer multiply is just as fast as an add or
> subtract, so there's no point.
>
> DaveA

Doh! Such a simple solution, just what I was looking for. Thanks!


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 17 22:10:31 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:10:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9f05027-97b2-4d01-93d7-1542d1a4f584@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 4:19?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 11:41?am, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
> > > have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
>
> > >http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de...
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Casey
>
> > Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
> > linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
> > block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
> > statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
> > point?"
>
> > I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
> > expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
> > in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
> > statements, for crying out loud use a def? And who needs those "do-
> > end" blocks anyway, trying to turn Python into Pascal?
>
> I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
> nice feature for Python.
>
> Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> I became enlightened.

I use Ruby a lot in my day job, and we rarely use blocks are as
anonymous callback functions, which was probably the source of your
pain in other languages.

Often Ruby blocks are just three or four lines of code that are
inlined into a still small function, so as long as the outer function
is still small (which Ruby's blocks help with--they promote
terseness), it's pretty easy to find a buggy function within a
traceback that is not overly big.

It's also possible in Ruby to use quality-promoting techniques like
unit testing, pair programming, deliberateness, etc., to avoid the
need for looking at tracebacks in the first place.

Python is not immune to hard-to-understand tracebacks, since you often
don't often know how a method got itself into the stracktrace in the
first place:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "foo.py", line 11, in <module>
    foo(method)
  File "foo.py", line 2, in foo
    method()
  File "foo.py", line 5, in bar
    raise Exception('I am broken!')
Exception: I am broken!

Even though there's no direct lexical reference to bar() in foo(), lo
and behold, foo() ends up calling bar():

def foo(method):
    method()

def bar():
    raise Exception('I am broken!')

def broken_function_factory():
    return bar

method = broken_function_factory()
foo(method)


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 22:18:14 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:18:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<87fx4zlna5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <e4623dc2-ff2a-43e9-9ce8-ad7a3c5fd04a@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 10:39?am, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming language
> > with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> > I became enlightened.
>
> If it was Perl [1], I doubt it. Because line numbers are reported

Ok so sonetimes I'm looking at a stack trace and sometimes I can tell
what the bug is just by lookong at the function namess.  But if it has
just line numbers I have to dig through my code looking for the line.


> and
> if that doesn't help you, you can annotate anonymous functions with a
> nick name using
>
> local *__ANON__ = 'nice name';
>
> Finding an issue, and not looking for a solution is not called becoming
> enlightened ;-)

The issue is that a stacktrace showing a bunch of nameless line
numbers can be a bad idea, not that Perl might be deficient (and we
already know that in any case), so it's not good to use a lot of
them.  Anyway once you annotate an anonymous function, it's no longer
anonymous.


> ~$ perl -e '
> use Carp;
>
> my $anon = sub { local *__ANON__ = "hello, world"; croak "oops"; };
> $anon->();
> '
>
> oops at -e line 4
> ? ? ? ? main::hello, world() called at -e line 5
>
> As you can see, and a line number is generated, and the nice name is
> shown.
>
> If you generate anonymouse functions on the fly based on parameters, you
> can encode this into the nice name, of course.
>
> Sadly, often bold statements about a language are made in ignorance.

I don't see what he said was any kind of a bold statement about a
language, arguably it was about the coding style.  That Perl allows
annotating functions doesn't mean people do it.


Carl Banks
>
> [1] perl is the program that executes Perl programs ;-).
>
> --
> John Bokma ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? j3b
>
> Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - ?http://johnbokma.com/http://castleamber.com/- Perl & Python Development



From philip at semanchuk.com  Wed Feb 17 22:27:27 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:27:27 -0500
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
Message-ID: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>

Hi all,
I'm the author of an extension (posix_ipc) that works under Python 2.4  
- 2.6. I have a version that works under Python 2.4-2.6 and 3.1 and I  
would like to release it, but it doesn't work under Python 3.0. I  
could hack up Python 3.0-specific workarounds, but I'm not sure it's  
worth it. I'm interested in opinions -- is Python 3.0 seeing use in  
production anywhere, or did most of the Python world move to 3.1 as  
soon as it was released?


Thanks
Philip


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Feb 17 22:36:13 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:36:13 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters (the
	latest)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2620.1266338135.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2620.1266338135.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7CB5AD.6000900@invalid.com>

 > On 17 February 2010 07:25,  <josef.pktd at gmail.com> wrote:
 > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Wayne Watson
 > > <sierra_mtnview at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 >> >> Hi, I'm working on a 1800+ line program that uses tkinter. Here 
are the
 >> >> messages I started getting recently. (I finally figured out how 
to copy
 >> >> them.). The program goes merrily on its way despite them.
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >> >> s\sentuser>sentuser_20080716NoiseStudy7.py
 >> >> C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\scipy\misc\__init__.py:25:
 >> >> DeprecationWarning: Num
 >> >> pyTest will be removed in the next release; please update your 
code to
 >> >> use nose
 >> >> or unittest
 >> >>   test = NumpyTest().test
 > >
 > > DeprecationWarnings mean some some functionality in numpy (or scipy)
 > > has changed and the old way of doing things will be removed and be
 > > invalid in the next version.
 > >
 > > During depreciation the old code still works, but before you upgrade
 > > you might want to check whether and how much you use these functions
 > > and switch to the new behavior.
 > >
 > > In the case of numpy.test, it means that if you have tests written
 > > that use the numpy testing module, then you need to switch them to the
 > > new nose based numpy.testing. And you need to install nose for running
 > > numpy.test()
Wayne - The DeprecationWarnings are being raised by SciPy, not by your
code. You probably don't have a recent version of SciPy installed. The
most recent release of SciPy is 0.7.1 and works with NumPy 1.3.0. I
don't think you will see the warnings if you upgrade SciPy and NumPy
on your system.

Check your NumPy and SciPy versions at a python prompt as follows:

 >>> >>> import numpy as np
 >>> >>> print np.__version__
 >>> >>> import scipy as sp
 >>> >>> print sp.__version__
You will need to completely remove the old versions if you choose to
upgrade. You should be able to do this from "Add/Remove Programs".

Cheers,
Scott
_______________________________________________
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion at scipy.org
http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion





From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Feb 17 22:36:24 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:36:24 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters (the
	latest)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2620.1266338135.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hle2bt$8qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.2616.1266334256.28905.python-list@python.org>	<hlee3p$4nq$2@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2620.1266338135.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7CB5B8.3010000@invalid.com>

 > On 17 February 2010 07:25,  <josef.pktd at gmail.com> wrote:
 > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Wayne Watson
 > > <sierra_mtnview at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 >> >> Hi, I'm working on a 1800+ line program that uses tkinter. Here 
are the
 >> >> messages I started getting recently. (I finally figured out how 
to copy
 >> >> them.). The program goes merrily on its way despite them.
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >> >> s\sentuser>sentuser_20080716NoiseStudy7.py
 >> >> C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\scipy\misc\__init__.py:25:
 >> >> DeprecationWarning: Num
 >> >> pyTest will be removed in the next release; please update your 
code to
 >> >> use nose
 >> >> or unittest
 >> >>   test = NumpyTest().test
 > >
 > > DeprecationWarnings mean some some functionality in numpy (or scipy)
 > > has changed and the old way of doing things will be removed and be
 > > invalid in the next version.
 > >
 > > During depreciation the old code still works, but before you upgrade
 > > you might want to check whether and how much you use these functions
 > > and switch to the new behavior.
 > >
 > > In the case of numpy.test, it means that if you have tests written
 > > that use the numpy testing module, then you need to switch them to the
 > > new nose based numpy.testing. And you need to install nose for running
 > > numpy.test()
Wayne - The DeprecationWarnings are being raised by SciPy, not by your
code. You probably don't have a recent version of SciPy installed. The
most recent release of SciPy is 0.7.1 and works with NumPy 1.3.0. I
don't think you will see the warnings if you upgrade SciPy and NumPy
on your system.

Check your NumPy and SciPy versions at a python prompt as follows:

 >>> >>> import numpy as np
 >>> >>> print np.__version__
 >>> >>> import scipy as sp
 >>> >>> print sp.__version__
You will need to completely remove the old versions if you choose to
upgrade. You should be able to do this from "Add/Remove Programs".

Cheers,
Scott
_______________________________________________
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion at scipy.org
http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion





From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Feb 17 22:39:41 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:39:41 -0800
Subject: Updating Packages in 2.5 (win/numpy) and Related Matters (the
	latest)
Message-ID: <hlicpv$m8o$6@news.eternal-september.org>

Had trouble posting this to the same thread above. Request above to 
provide response from numpy mail list.

 > On 17 February 2010 07:25,  <josef.pktd at gmail.com> wrote:
 > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Wayne Watson
 > > <sierra_mtnview at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 >> >> Hi, I'm working on a 1800+ line program that uses tkinter. Here 
are the
 >> >> messages I started getting recently. (I finally figured out how 
to copy
 >> >> them.). The program goes merrily on its way despite them.
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >> >> s\sentuser>sentuser_20080716NoiseStudy7.py
 >> >> C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\scipy\misc\__init__.py:25:
 >> >> DeprecationWarning: Num
 >> >> pyTest will be removed in the next release; please update your 
code to
 >> >> use nose
 >> >> or unittest
 >> >>   test = NumpyTest().test
 > >
 > > DeprecationWarnings mean some some functionality in numpy (or scipy)
 > > has changed and the old way of doing things will be removed and be
 > > invalid in the next version.
 > >
 > > During depreciation the old code still works, but before you upgrade
 > > you might want to check whether and how much you use these functions
 > > and switch to the new behavior.
 > >
 > > In the case of numpy.test, it means that if you have tests written
 > > that use the numpy testing module, then you need to switch them to the
 > > new nose based numpy.testing. And you need to install nose for running
 > > numpy.test()
Wayne - The DeprecationWarnings are being raised by SciPy, not by your
code. You probably don't have a recent version of SciPy installed. The
most recent release of SciPy is 0.7.1 and works with NumPy 1.3.0. I
don't think you will see the warnings if you upgrade SciPy and NumPy
on your system.

Check your NumPy and SciPy versions at a python prompt as follows:

 >>> >>> import numpy as np
 >>> >>> print np.__version__
 >>> >>> import scipy as sp
 >>> >>> print sp.__version__
You will need to completely remove the old versions if you choose to
upgrade. You should be able to do this from "Add/Remove Programs".

Cheers,
Scott
_______________________________________________
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion at scipy.org
http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion





From wolftracks at invalid.com  Wed Feb 17 22:42:28 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:42:28 -0800
Subject: Wrestling with the Py2exe Install, Win7, Py2.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2650.1266407111.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlf2d5$lar$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2650.1266407111.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlicv6$m8o$7@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/17/2010 3:44 AM, mk wrote:
> W. eWatson wrote:
>
>
> P.S. I didn't really use PyInstaller on Windows, though -- just on
> Linux, where it works beautifully.
>
> Regards,
> mk
>
Well,Ive made some progress with a py2exe tutorial. It starts with the 
short "hello world!" program. But something stumbled right away in 
setup.py. I'm on a mail list to sort this out.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 17 22:51:11 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:51:11 +0000
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
In-Reply-To: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
References: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
Message-ID: <4B7CB92F.9050100@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Philip Semanchuk wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm the author of an extension (posix_ipc) that works under Python 2.4 - 
> 2.6. I have a version that works under Python 2.4-2.6 and 3.1 and I 
> would like to release it, but it doesn't work under Python 3.0. I could 
> hack up Python 3.0-specific workarounds, but I'm not sure it's worth it. 
> I'm interested in opinions -- is Python 3.0 seeing use in production 
> anywhere, or did most of the Python world move to 3.1 as soon as it was 
> released?
> 
Python 3.0 had a relatively short run before it was superseded by Python
3.1 due to certain issues, so, IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it unless
someone especially requests/requires it.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 17 23:13:59 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:13:59 -0800
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
References: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xfx4zp4e0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Josh English <joshua.r.english at gmail.com> writes:
> Has anyone heard of a module that parses wiki markup and transforms
> it? Or am I looking at XSLT?

MediaWiki markup is quite messy and unless MediaWiki has an XML export
feature that I don't know about, I don't see what good XSLT can do you.
(The regular MediaWiki API generates XML results with wiki markup
embedded in it).  It looks like mediawiki itself can create pdf's (see
any page on en.wikibooks.org for example), but the rendered pdf is not
that attractive.

I remember something about a Haskell module to parse mediawiki markup,
if that is of any use.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Thu Feb 18 00:19:54 2010
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:19:54 -0800
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
In-Reply-To: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
References: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
Message-ID: <hliilp$8n3$1@ger.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Philip Semanchuk wrote:
> is Python 3.0 seeing use in production
> anywhere, or did most of the Python world move to 3.1 as soon as it was
> released?

Python 3.0 has been end of lifed:

  http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0.1/

Consequently no one should be using it in production.  Incidentally my own
extension is in a similar situation to yours - Python 2.3 onwards is
supported for the 2.x family.  I did support 3.0 from beta releases onwards
but various changes in the library between 3.0 and 3.1 and the end of lifing
of 3.0 meant I dropped 3.0 support.  No one has asked for it since.

Roger
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkt8zfoACgkQmOOfHg372QS2cACgznTcQXRcxMqqlfIt4F0C2TaX
d9IAoNhkY1dvX1aKlONyVGIL2zplNNF7
=jM8O
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 00:20:15 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:20:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
References: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com> 
	<mailman.2692.1266465072.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d457056b-6b9c-4a30-8532-850d7f2ea074@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Python 3.0 had a relatively short run before it was superseded by Python
> 3.1 due to certain issues, so, IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it unless
> someone especially requests/requires it.

And even then, I'd just tell them I accept patches :)


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 01:48:43 2010
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:48:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
Message-ID: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

I need to implement custom import hooks for an application (http://
www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an application
to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app engine is
using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in google/
appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses
socket module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk.
Finding out, which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If
the application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But
if the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any
way I can do this ?

Application
========
import sdk
import socket               # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
ImportError)

SDK
====
import socket               # need to allow this


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 03:03:51 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 10:48?pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an application
> to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app engine is
> using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in google/
> appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses
> socket module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk.
> Finding out, which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If
> the application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But
> if the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any
> way I can do this ?
>
> Application
> ========
> import sdk
> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
> ImportError)
>
> SDK
> ====
> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this


SDK
===
import socket

App
===
import SDK
import sys
socket = sys.modules['socket']


From timr at probo.com  Thu Feb 18 03:07:02 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:07:02 -0800
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>

DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hm, well I see that and now I am thinking of using reference software
>for MPEG4/10 which is written in c++  http://iphome.hhi.de/suehring/tml/
>just to use it as a decoder on my client side, save the file in that
>format and then play it in my player using pyffmpeg
>http://code.google.com/p/pyffmpeg/ and just manipulate frames in that
>clip-I think that could be possible....am I right?

After you have passed the video through a decoder, it's no longer in MPEG
format at all.  It's just a series of bitmaps, so pyffmpeg wouldn't apply.

If you want to save the raw MPEG data, you can certainly do that, but such
data is often not divided into "frames".
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 03:57:01 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 08:57:01 GMT
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> On Feb 17, 10:48?pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
>> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
>> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
>> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
>> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
>> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
>> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
>> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
>> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
>> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
>> I can do this ?
>>
>> Application
>> ========
>> import sdk
>> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
>> ImportError)
>>
>> SDK
>> ====
>> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this
> 
> 
> SDK
> ===
> import socket
> 
> App
> ===
> import SDK
> import sys
> socket = sys.modules['socket']


I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App 
layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a 
prohibition in the SDK layer.

In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:

if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
    prohibit
else
    allow



I could be wrong of course.



-- 
Steven


From lallous at lgwm.org  Thu Feb 18 04:09:58 2010
From: lallous at lgwm.org (lallous)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:09:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
Message-ID: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hello

Is there is any Python library that allow such things:

Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
can develop the equation for example.
Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
( rest of expression ).
There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
expression can be evaluated.
If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
preserved.

Does such a thing exist?

Thanks,
Elias


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb 18 04:17:42 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:17:42 -0800
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
In-Reply-To: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002180117v7f9cd5e5rbcf4276581369468@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:09 AM, lallous <lallous at lgwm.org> wrote:
> Hello
>
> Is there is any Python library that allow such things:
>
> Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
> can develop the equation for example.
> Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
> ( rest of expression ).
> There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
> expression can be evaluated.
> If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
> preserved.
>
> Does such a thing exist?

They're called computer algebra systems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_algebra_system

SymPy is one for Python:
http://code.google.com/p/sympy/

Don't know if it supports factoring specifically; I've never used it,
I just have Google-Fu.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 18 04:23:29 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 09:23:29 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message
>> <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517... at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> > I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
>> > nice feature for Python.
>>
>> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming
>> > language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>>
>> Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?
>>
>> What more do you need?
> 
> I don't know, but I tend to find the name of the function I called to
> be useful. It's much more memorable than line numbers, particularly
> when line numbers keep changing.
> 
> I doubt it's just me, though.

Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors:

In any language it isn't much use if you get a bug report from a shipped
program that says there was an error on line 793 but no report of
exactly which version of the shipped code was being run. 

Microsoft love telling you the line number: if IE gets a Javascript
error it reports line number but not filename, so you have to guess
which of the HTML page or one of many included files actually had the
error. Plus the line number that is reported is often slightly off. 

Javascript in particular is often sent to the browser compressed then
uncompressed and eval'd. That makes line numbers completely useless for
tracking down bugs as you'll always get the line number of the eval.
Also the way functions are defined in Javascript means you'll often have
almost every function listed in a backtrace as 'Anonymous'. 

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 04:24:10 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:24:10 +0100
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
In-Reply-To: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002180124x493d3fccn551b53637f8300ce@mail.gmail.com>

> Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
> can develop the equation for example.
> Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
> ( rest of expression ).
> There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
> expression can be evaluated.
> If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
> preserved.

Take a look at sage: http://www.sagemath.org/
I wouldn't say it's simple, in fact it's huge, but it'll do the job.

Cheers,
Daniel

-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 04:28:37 2010
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:28:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 1:57?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > On Feb 17, 10:48?pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
>
> >> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
> >> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
> >> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
> >> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
> >> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
> >> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
> >> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
> >> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
> >> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
> >> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
> >> I can do this ?
>
> >> Application
> >> ========
> >> import sdk
> >> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
> >> ImportError)
>
> >> SDK
> >> ====
> >> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this
>
> > SDK
> > ===
> > import socket
>
> > App
> > ===
> > import SDK
> > import sys
> > socket = sys.modules['socket']
>
> I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
> layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
> prohibition in the SDK layer.
>
> In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>
> if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
> ? ? prohibit
> else
> ? ? allow
>
> I could be wrong of course.
>
> --
> Steven

@Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 04:43:17 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:43:17 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2679.1266444858.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2679.1266444858.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d0baa$0$13729$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Mark Lawrence a ?crit :
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr> writes:
>>
>>> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and
>>> IMHO beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit
>>> peculiar when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
>> [?]
>>
>> Bruno, that's the first time I've understood the descriptor protocol, or
>> even understood *why* the descriptor protocol is important.
>>
>> Could you please post (a version of) this as a separate article
>> somewhere? A weblog post, or a new thread in this forum, or in the
>> documentation? Somewhere that web searches will find it prominently when
>> searching for the Python descriptor protocol.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
> 
> I'll second, third and fourth this request.  More please Bruno, or from 
> anybody similarly qualified.
> 
> Thanks very much.


First, thanks Ben and Mark for the kind words...

I never tried to google for them, but there must be at least 4 previous 
posts here where I tried to explain the topic. Perhaps this latest 
attempt was better ?-) But anyway : if it's about making this text 
easier to find, it seems that posting it here is not the most efficient 
solution !-)

Anyway : I don't have a blog and don't really have enough time / 
motivation for blogging. Now if anyone is willing and able to host such 
  a text on his own website / blog / whatever, I'd be happy to rework it 
a bit.

/wrt to have it in the documentation and the "from anybody similarly 
qualified", there's already a pretty comprehensive article in the 
official docs (well : linked from the official docs), from someone who's 
_way_ more qualified that I'll ever be - FWIW, everything I explained 
here and all my knowledge of the descriptor protocol, methods etc come 
from this article:

http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm

But I understand it can be a bit intimidating for newcomers, so yes, 
perhaps a lighter introductory text could be helpful. So guys, if you 
think a revised version of my post would be of interest, I'll take you 
on words: provide the hosting, I'll provide the content !-)

B.


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 04:50:14 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:50:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 04:59:40 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:59:40 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002171051o4bc48483qbb82cc65668434f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlhd0m$1jh$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002171051o4bc48483qbb82cc65668434f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlj30c$iac$1@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> Or just leave it as a top level function where it was perfectly happy to 
> live :)

Yes. This is probably the sanest solution anyway, because probably 
having many such functions to use, packing them into smth like 
package.utils anyway is a good idea. I'm trying mainly to learn and 
test-drive such solutions, not that I would be keen to use them 
excessively in production code.

>     This obviously means no other method can call it like
>     self.print_internal_date(), because self would get passed as first
>     argument, yes?
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to be. It could be a class method-- @classmethod does 
> that, makes it receive 'cls' the actual class as the first argument. Or 
> a @staticmethod, in which case it has no first-argument at all.

Ahh now I get it. Thanks! So that's the use for @staticmethod (I was 
wondering if there was any).



From snakylove at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 05:09:39 2010
From: snakylove at googlemail.com (Snaky Love)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 02:09:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to use AWS/PAA nowadays? PyAWS / pyamazon outdated?
Message-ID: <555ef5e9-dc90-494d-affc-a78389f6922f@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

is anybody aware of any updated and / or maintained library for
accessing AWS/PAA with Python? I found the dusty pyamazon and a
derivate of it, pyaws, but both of them do not seem to support request
signatures which must be used by August 15, 2009 to use the Amazon
Services, and generally seem to be a little bit outdated...

Is there a better way doing signed requests to AWS/PAA nowadays? How
are you doing it?

I found a good PHP Library here: http://getcloudfusion.com/docs - but
I would like to program stuff with python - is there anything pythonic
that is close to that?

Thank you very much for your attention,
have a nice day,
Snaky


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Feb 18 05:36:30 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:36:30 +1100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2679.1266444858.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7d0baa$0$13729$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87d402bzkh.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:

> perhaps a lighter introductory text could be helpful. So guys, if you
> think a revised version of my post would be of interest, I'll take you
> on words: provide the hosting, I'll provide the content !-)

Here, let me work my hosting magic: <URL:http://wiki.python.org/>.

-- 
 \            ?Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what |
  `\                mnemonic means, you've got a problem.? ?Larry Wall |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From leo at lspace.org  Thu Feb 18 05:46:58 2010
From: leo at lspace.org (Leo Breebaart)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 10:46:58 GMT
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net> <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <7u4k52F6jsU1@mid.individual.net>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> Descriptors to the rescue :)
> 
> def read_body_from(filename):
>     print "** loading content **"
>     return "<content of '%s'>" % filename
> 
> # This is a kind of class property
> class TemplateFilename(object):
>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>         return "%s.tmpl" % cls.__name__
> 
> # And this is a kind of cached class property
> class TemplateBody(object):
>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>         try:
>             return cls._body
>         except AttributeError:
>             cls._body = read_body_from(cls.template_filename)
>             return cls._body
> 
> class Foo(object):
>     template_filename = TemplateFilename()
>     template_body = TemplateBody()
> 
> class FooA(Foo):
>    pass
> 
> class FooB(Foo):
>    pass

Very enlightening, thanks!

By the way, I completely agree with the other posters in this
thread that intricate solutions such as this are likely to be
overkill, especially since at this point I have no idea if the
inefficiency of reading those templates multiple times would at
all matter (frankly, I'd doubt it). But it's certainly been
educational to learn about these techniques.

One observation: if I implement the descriptor solution as given
above, the code works perfectly, but running the code through
pychecker now causes an error, because that again causes an
attempt to read from the non-existant base class template file
"Foo.tmpl"...

-- 
Leo Breebaart  <leo at lspace.org>


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 18 05:49:28 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:49:28 +0100
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
In-Reply-To: <f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D1B38.6080800@sequans.com>

Sreejith K wrote:
> On Feb 18, 1:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>   
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>     
>>> On Feb 17, 10:48 pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>         
>>>> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
>>>> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
>>>> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
>>>> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
>>>> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
>>>> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
>>>> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
>>>> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
>>>> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
>>>> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
>>>> I can do this ?
>>>>         
>>>> Application
>>>> ========
>>>> import sdk
>>>> import socket               # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
>>>> ImportError)
>>>>         
>>>> SDK
>>>> ====
>>>> import socket               # need to allow this
>>>>         
>>> SDK
>>> ===
>>> import socket
>>>       
>>> App
>>> ===
>>> import SDK
>>> import sys
>>> socket = sys.modules['socket']
>>>       
>> I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
>> layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
>> prohibition in the SDK layer.
>>
>> In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>>
>> if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
>>     prohibit
>> else
>>     allow
>>
>> I could be wrong of course.
>>
>> --
>> Steven
>>     
>
> @Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??
>   

import sys
sys.modules['socket'] = None


import socket
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call last)

ImportError: No module named socket


JM




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 05:50:13 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:50:13 +0100
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002180124x493d3fccn551b53637f8300ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<fbe2e2101002180124x493d3fccn551b53637f8300ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002180250x79f70db2j3da4a23d08d6178a@mail.gmail.com>

>> Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
>> can develop the equation for example.
>> Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
>> ( rest of expression ).
>> There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
>> expression can be evaluated.
>> If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
>> preserved.
>
> Take a look at sage: http://www.sagemath.org/
> I wouldn't say it's simple, in fact it's huge, but it'll do the job.

Probably you can isolate the part of sage that you actually need and
can throw away 95% of it.

HTH,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Thu Feb 18 06:09:05 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:09:05 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002131819x4ba766dds245220760ef74ff1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
	<7f014ea61002131819x4ba766dds245220760ef74ff1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100218110905.GB30547@debian-eeepc>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 09:19:59PM -0500, Chris Colbert wrote:
>    You'll need acpi installed:
>    In [6]: import subprocess

Thanks for that code, I'll try putting something together this weekend.

Dan


From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Thu Feb 18 06:11:51 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:11:51 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <4B775EA0.7080207@tim.thechases.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
	<4B775EA0.7080207@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <20100218111151.GA31441@debian-eeepc>

I'm not sure I have those files, but I'll look a little harder this
weekend when I put together the script. 

Thanks for your help, 
Dan

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 08:23:28PM -0600, Tim Chase wrote:
> Daniel Dalton wrote:
> >On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 05:26:02PM -0800, Chris Rebert wrote:
> >>It's probably gonna depend on which OS you're running. Which would be...?
> >
> >Sorry, forgot to mention this. I'm running debian linux.
> 
> You should be able to read/poll the various files in
> 
>   /proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/*
> 
> for whatever battery information you need.  Each BAT* directory
> contains information about one of the batteries in the system (it's
> possible, albeit rare, to have more than one).  So you might have
> some script that runs every $INTERVAL that looks something like
> 
>   from glob import glob
>   for fname in glob('/proc/acpi/battery/BAT*/*'):
>     f = file(fname)
>     for line in f:
>       do_something(line)
>     f.close()
> 
> On my Debian laptop (Gateway Solo 1200, OEM battery circa 2001), the
> contents look something like
> 
> tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat alarm
> alarm:                   unsupported
> tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat info
> present:                 yes
> design capacity:         4016 mAh
> last full capacity:      4011 mAh
> battery technology:      rechargeable
> design voltage:          9600 mV
> design capacity warning: 602 mAh
> design capacity low:     401 mAh
> capacity granularity 1:  201 mAh
> capacity granularity 2:  3409 mAh
> model number:            QT08
> serial number:           SANYOQT08
> battery type:            NiMH
> OEM info:                SANYO
> tim at rubbish:/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0$ cat state
> present:                 yes
> capacity state:          ok
> charging state:          charged
> present rate:            unknown
> remaining capacity:      4011 mAh
> present voltage:         9600 mV
> 
> 
> 
> -tkc
> 


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 06:12:36 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:12:36 +0100
Subject: Static method
Message-ID: <hlj793$ra$1@ger.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

Disclaimer: I'm doing this mainly for learning purposes, to feel what 
it's good for.

I'm trying to get print_internal_date become a static method AND to 
refer to it in a class attribute 'tagdata' dict.

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
     'python file properties'

     @staticmethod
     def print_internal_date(filename):
         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
         data = f.read(8)
         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
             }

     def __init__(self, fname=None):
         FileInfo.__init__(self,fname)

     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
         FileInfo.__setitem__(self, key, value)
         if key == 'name' and value:
             self.__get_props(value)

     def __get_props(self, value):
         py_compile.compile(value)
         for tag, fun in PYFileInfo.tagdata.items():
             self[tag] = fun(value)

But:

c:/Python26/pythonw.exe -u  "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py"
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 100, in <module>
     insts = list_dir(r'c:\mp3i',['.mp3', '.py'])
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 93, in list_dir
     insts = [c(f) for c,f in class_files]
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 69, in __init__
     FileInfo.__init__(self,fname)
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 12, in __init__
     self['name'] = filename
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 74, in __setitem__
     self.__get_props(value)
   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 79, in __get_props
     self[tag] = fun(value)
TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable


I think I know where the problem is: what resides in tagdata is a static 
method 'wrapper', not the function itself, according to:

http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html

"Static method objects
     Static method objects provide a way of defeating the transformation 
of function objects to method objects described above. A static method 
object is a wrapper around any other object, usually a user-defined 
method object. When a static method object is retrieved from a class or 
a class instance, the object actually returned is the wrapped object, 
which is not subject to any further transformation. Static method 
objects are not themselves callable, although the objects they wrap 
usually are."

So, how do I get out the wrapped function out of static method without 
class call or instance call? (to be called in self[tag] = fun(value))

Yes, I do know that if I just get rid of @staticmethod, this works 
without a hitch.





From d.dalton at iinet.net.au  Thu Feb 18 06:16:07 2010
From: d.dalton at iinet.net.au (Daniel Dalton)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:16:07 +1100
Subject: working with laptop battery
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002131822w15f9bdc4t2bc2958fea2272ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100214004831.GA21071@debian-eeepc>
	<50697b2c1002131726p19cd33bagdc921b0db926313e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100214014324.GA4868@debian-eeepc>
	<fbe2e2101002131822w15f9bdc4t2bc2958fea2272ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100218111607.GC31441@debian-eeepc>

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 03:22:11AM +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
> /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info
> /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state

Had a quick look, but that path doesn't seem to exist, I'll look harder
on the weekend when I put the script together, because it has to be
somewhere.

Thanks,
Dan


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 06:20:25 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:20:25 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <87d402bzkh.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<87iq9vcydc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<mailman.2679.1266444858.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d0baa$0$13729$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<87d402bzkh.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4b7d226d$0$14717$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Ben Finney a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid> writes:
> 
>> perhaps a lighter introductory text could be helpful. So guys, if you
>> think a revised version of my post would be of interest, I'll take you
>> on words: provide the hosting, I'll provide the content !-)
> 
> Here, let me work my hosting magic: <URL:http://wiki.python.org/>.

Duh ! (me banging my head on the desktop)

Ok, I'll do my part of the job then !-)


From snakylove at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 06:29:47 2010
From: snakylove at googlemail.com (Snaky Love)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 03:29:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MediaWiki to RTF/Word/PDF
References: <0f65e2cf-6f3e-4719-ba30-9b44588f317b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e893fe64-bf7a-4342-aeca-95e9cbd22e33@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

 - I checked some ways doing this, and starting over with a new thing
will give you a lot of headaches - all XSLT processors have one or
another problem - success depends very much on how you where using
wikipedia (plugins?) and you will have to expect a lot of poking
around with details and still not beeing happy with the solutions
available - there are many really crazy approaches out there to
generate pdf of mediawiki "markup" - many tried, not many succeeded,
most of them stop at "good enough for me"-level. So it might be a good
idea, not running too far away from what they are doing at
http://code.pediapress.com - you will spend much less time with
installing ubuntu in a virtualbox.

However there is one quite impressive tool, that does pdf conversion
via css and is good for getting the job done quick and not too dirty:
http://www.princexml.com/samples/ - scroll down to the mediawiki
examples - they offer a free license for non-commercial projects.

Good luck!

Have a nice day,
Snaky



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 18 06:32:51 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:32:51 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d2563$0$6581$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

mk, 18.02.2010 12:12:
> I'm trying to get print_internal_date become a static method AND to
> refer to it in a class attribute 'tagdata' dict.
> 
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>     'python file properties'
> 
>     @staticmethod
>     def print_internal_date(filename):
>         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
>         data = f.read(8)
>         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
>         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))
> 
>     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                 'size': os.path.getsize,
>                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
>             }

You can 'unroll' the decorator like this:

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
    def print_internal_date(filename):
        f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
        data = f.read(8)
        mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
        return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

    tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                'size': os.path.getsize,
                'internal_date': print_internal_date
            }

    print_internal_date = staticmethod(print_internal_date)

You can also define the function outside of the class and then assign it to
a class attribute, i.e.

def _print_internal_date(filename):
    f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
    data = f.read(8)
    mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
    return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
    print_internal_date = _print_internal_date

    tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                'size': os.path.getsize,
                'internal_date': _print_internal_date
            }

Quite likely, there are other ways to achieve what you want more cleanly,
but without more background on your intended use case, it's hard to give
better advice.

Stefan


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 06:54:44 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:54:44 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :

> I'm trying to get print_internal_date become a static method AND to 
> refer to it in a class attribute 'tagdata' dict.
> 
> class PYFileInfo(FileInfo):
>     'python file properties'
> 
>     @staticmethod
>     def print_internal_date(filename):
>         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
>         data = f.read(8)
>         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
>         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))
> 
>     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
>                 'size': os.path.getsize,
>                 'internal_date': print_internal_date
>             }
(snip)

>     def __get_props(self, value):
>         py_compile.compile(value)
>         for tag, fun in PYFileInfo.tagdata.items():
>             self[tag] = fun(value)
> 
> But:
> 
> c:/Python26/pythonw.exe -u  "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py"
> Traceback (most recent call last):
(snip)
>   File "C:/mp3i/finfo2.py", line 79, in __get_props
>     self[tag] = fun(value)
> TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable
> 
> 
> I think I know where the problem is: what resides in tagdata is a static 
> method 'wrapper', not the function itself, according to:

Indeed. Sorry, I'm afraid I gave you bad advice wrt/ using a 
staticmethod here - I should know better :( (well, OTHO staticmethods 
are not something I use that often).

Anyway: here are a simplified version of your problem, a possible 
solution that _won't_ statisfy your other constraints, 2 ugly hacks that 
could work but that I don't really like, and what's possibly the "less 
worse" solution if you really need a staticmethod here.

###
class Foo1(object):
     """ simplified version of mk's code - test() fails """
     @staticmethod
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': bar}

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)


class Foo2(object):
     """ naive solution : kinda work, BUT will fail
         with the real code that has  plain functions
         in 'tagada'
     """
     @staticmethod
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': bar}

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)


class Foo3(object):
     """ working solution 1 : defer the wrapping
         of 'bar' as a staticmethod
     """
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': bar}

     bar = staticmethod(bar)

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)


class Foo4(object):
     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
     @staticmethod
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)


""" and as a "less worse" solution """

def foo5bar(baaz):
    print baaz

class Foo5(object):
     tagada = {'bar': foo5bar}

     bar = staticmethod(foo5bar)

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)


###

Another "solution" might be to write an alternate callable 
implementation of 'staticmethod' - which I'll leave as an exercise to 
the reader (...) - but that's possibly a bit overkill !-)


> http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html
> 
> So, how do I get out the wrapped function out of static method without 
> class call or instance call? (to be called in self[tag] = fun(value))

cf above. None of the solutions I could came with really statisfy me, 
but well, at least 3 of them might be "good enough" depending on the 
context. As far as I'm concerned, I'd first try the last one, but YMMV

> Yes, I do know that if I just get rid of @staticmethod, this works 
> without a hitch.

But then you can't use print_internal_date as a method !-)

HTH


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:15:43 2010
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:15:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2698.1266490188.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5b007f18-9041-465a-815f-8359f884265c@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:49?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
wrote:
> Sreejith K wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 1:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano
> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> >> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>
> >>> On Feb 17, 10:48 pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Hi everyone,
>
> >>>> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
> >>>> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
> >>>> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
> >>>> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
> >>>> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
> >>>> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
> >>>> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
> >>>> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
> >>>> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
> >>>> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
> >>>> I can do this ?
>
> >>>> Application
> >>>> ========
> >>>> import sdk
> >>>> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
> >>>> ImportError)
>
> >>>> SDK
> >>>> ====
> >>>> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this
>
> >>> SDK
> >>> ===
> >>> import socket
>
> >>> App
> >>> ===
> >>> import SDK
> >>> import sys
> >>> socket = sys.modules['socket']
>
> >> I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
> >> layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
> >> prohibition in the SDK layer.
>
> >> In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>
> >> if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
> >> ? ? prohibit
> >> else
> >> ? ? allow
>
> >> I could be wrong of course.
>
> >> --
> >> Steven
>
> > @Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??
>
> import sys
> sys.modules['socket'] = None
>
> import socket
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ImportError ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Traceback (most recent call last)
>
> ImportError: No module named socket
>
> JM

@Jean. Thanks for the reply. But this is not what I wanted. The import
hook already restricts socket imports in applications. But I want them
in sdk package (alone) which is being imported in the application. I
don't want applications to directly use the socket module. That means
I want to make some exceptions for sdk in import hooks.


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:28:00 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:28:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with lambda
Message-ID: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am still fairly new to Python. Can someone explain to me why there
is a difference in f and g:

def make_power(n):
    return lambda x: x ** n

# Create a set of exponential functions
f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]

print f[0](3), f[1](3)
print g[0](3), g[1](3)


I expect to have "f" act same like "g".

Thanks


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 18 07:38:30 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:38:30 +0100
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
In-Reply-To: <5b007f18-9041-465a-815f-8359f884265c@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2698.1266490188.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<5b007f18-9041-465a-815f-8359f884265c@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D34C6.30809@sequans.com>

Sreejith K wrote:
> On Feb 18, 3:49 pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmic... at sequans.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> Sreejith K wrote:
>>     
>>> On Feb 18, 1:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano
>>> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> On Feb 17, 10:48 pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>             
>>>>>> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
>>>>>> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
>>>>>> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
>>>>>> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
>>>>>> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
>>>>>> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
>>>>>> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
>>>>>> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
>>>>>> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
>>>>>> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
>>>>>> I can do this ?
>>>>>>             
>>>>>> Application
>>>>>> ========
>>>>>> import sdk
>>>>>> import socket               # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
>>>>>> ImportError)
>>>>>>             
>>>>>> SDK
>>>>>> ====
>>>>>> import socket               # need to allow this
>>>>>>             
>>>>> SDK
>>>>> ===
>>>>> import socket
>>>>>           
>>>>> App
>>>>> ===
>>>>> import SDK
>>>>> import sys
>>>>> socket = sys.modules['socket']
>>>>>           
>>>> I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
>>>> layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
>>>> prohibition in the SDK layer.
>>>>         
>>>> In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>>>>         
>>>> if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
>>>>     prohibit
>>>> else
>>>>     allow
>>>>         
>>>> I could be wrong of course.
>>>>         
>>>> --
>>>> Steven
>>>>         
>>> @Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??
>>>       
>> import sys
>> sys.modules['socket'] = None
>>
>> import socket
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call last)
>>
>> ImportError: No module named socket
>>
>> JM
>>     
>
> @Jean. Thanks for the reply. But this is not what I wanted. The import
> hook already restricts socket imports in applications. But I want them
> in sdk package (alone) which is being imported in the application. I
> don't want applications to directly use the socket module. That means
> I want to make some exceptions for sdk in import hooks.
>   
give us your code (the hook import)

in your entry file:

import socket
import sys
sys.modules['sdkSocket'] = sys.modules['socket'] # allow to import 
socket ad sdkSocket
sys.modules['socket'] = None # forbid to import socket
del socket

within your SDK:
import sdkSocket # actually the socket module

print sdkSocket.__file__
'/usr/lib/python2.5/socket.pyc'

JM


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:39:08 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:39:08 +0000
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net> <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<7u4k52F6jsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <m2mxz6lnv7.fsf@googlemail.com>

Leo Breebaart <leo at lspace.org> writes:

> Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> Descriptors to the rescue :)
>> 
>> def read_body_from(filename):
>>     print "** loading content **"
>>     return "<content of '%s'>" % filename
>> 
>> # This is a kind of class property
>> class TemplateFilename(object):
>>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>>         return "%s.tmpl" % cls.__name__
>> 
>> # And this is a kind of cached class property
>> class TemplateBody(object):
>>     def __get__(self, obj, cls):
>>         try:
>>             return cls._body
>>         except AttributeError:
>>             cls._body = read_body_from(cls.template_filename)
>>             return cls._body
>> 
>> class Foo(object):
>>     template_filename = TemplateFilename()
>>     template_body = TemplateBody()
>> 
>> class FooA(Foo):
>>    pass
>> 
>> class FooB(Foo):
>>    pass
>
> Very enlightening, thanks!
>
> By the way, I completely agree with the other posters in this
> thread that intricate solutions such as this are likely to be
> overkill, especially since at this point I have no idea if the
> inefficiency of reading those templates multiple times would at
> all matter (frankly, I'd doubt it). But it's certainly been
> educational to learn about these techniques.

Writing programs is a great way to keep learning :)

> One observation: if I implement the descriptor solution as given
> above, the code works perfectly, but running the code through
> pychecker now causes an error, because that again causes an
> attempt to read from the non-existant base class template file
> "Foo.tmpl"...

As someone said before, you could just provide a dummy Foo.tmpl file.

-- 
Arnaud


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:42:57 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:42:57 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hljcih$hvt$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> I think I know where the problem is: what resides in tagdata is a 
>> static method 'wrapper', not the function itself, according to:
> 
> Indeed. Sorry, I'm afraid I gave you bad advice wrt/ using a 
> staticmethod here - I should know better :( (well, OTHO staticmethods 
> are not something I use that often).

Do not worry the least bit! I'm testdriving on a closed circuit here for 
sake of becoming better 'driver', I'm not going to drive like this on 
the streets.

> class Foo2(object):
>     """ naive solution : kinda work, BUT will fail
>         with the real code that has  plain functions
>         in 'tagada'
>     """
>     @staticmethod
>     def bar(baaz):
>         print baaz
> 
>     tagada = {'bar': bar}
> 
>     def test(self, baaz):
>         self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)

Well I could always do:

if isinstance(self.tagada['bar'], staticmethod):
	self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)
else:
	self.tagada['bar'](baaz)

But 1. this apparently defeats the purpose of using print_internal_date 
on instance/class in 'normal' way, and 2. I probably shouldn't be doing 
that since using isinstance is apparently like playing with yourself: 
while technically legal, people look at you weirdly. :-)

> 
> class Foo3(object):
>     """ working solution 1 : defer the wrapping
>         of 'bar' as a staticmethod
>     """
>     def bar(baaz):
>         print baaz
> 
>     tagada = {'bar': bar}
> 
>     bar = staticmethod(bar)
> 
>     def test(self, baaz):
>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)

Neat! I like this one.

> 
> 
> class Foo4(object):
>     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
>     @staticmethod
>     def bar(baaz):
>         print baaz
> 
>     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}
> 
>     def test(self, baaz):
>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)

Huh? How does this one work? After all, while in Foo4 body, the Foo4 
does not exist yet? Does lambda defer evaluation to runtime (when it's 
executed) or smth?

> 
> 
> """ and as a "less worse" solution """
> 
> def foo5bar(baaz):
>    print baaz
> 
> class Foo5(object):
>     tagada = {'bar': foo5bar}
> 
>     bar = staticmethod(foo5bar)
> 
>     def test(self, baaz):
>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
> 

Yes. I probably should have stayed with this one in the first place. I 
feel bad for using up bandwidth and people's attention with such stuff...




From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Feb 18 07:45:58 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:45:58 +1000
Subject: Help with lambda
In-Reply-To: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002180445i3c95cc7dp9b5aafeb88fa51e@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking at your code and was thinking ... why writing code that is
difficult to understand?

To answer your question though, they're different because in case "f", your
lambda experssion is only evaluated once. That means the variable 'n' is
ever only created once, and replaced repeatedly. In the second case "g", the
function is only ever created once, and in effect, the lambda expression is
evaluated as a new expression every time the function is called. That's why
it may have been what you wanted.

Seriously though, you should use a generater instead. And if that doesn't
work for you, just make a function mate. Way easier to read, and you don't
have to have ugly calls like f[0](3).

>>> def powers(n):
...     for x in xrange(2,5):
...         yield x ** n
...
>>> for result in powers(3):
...     print result
...
8
27
64

Cheers,
Xav
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:47:23 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:47:23 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hljcqq$irr$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
>> 'self' in print_internal_date signature
> 
> Indeed. Using it that way, the print_internal_date will not be wrapped
> in a method object.

Hold on! How does Python know what to wrap and what not to wrap, 
assuming of course programmer doesn't use @classmethod or @staticmethod? 
Bc self has no special significance, it's just a (strong) convention, 
Python can't know what's the first argument of a function supposed to 
be, self or regular argument, and therefore it has no way of 
differentiating between functions (defined in class body) designed to 
become methods and those that are not?

Where can I read on Python internals like this (aside from post of 
yours, that is)? Bc  frankly skimming http://docs.python.org/reference/ 
didn't give me impression that a lot on the subject is there (well 
there's some, I found smth akin to your explanation below, although 
yours is way more readable)?

Thanks for explanation below -- I'm going to ask some related questions.

> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
> beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
> when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
> 
> The first thing is that the def statement *always* yield a function
> object. Always. If you don't believe it, try the following snippet:
> 
> class Foo(object):
>     def bar(self):
>         return "baaz"
> 
> print Foo.__dict__.keys()
> print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])

Just one thing here:

 >>> Foo.bar
<unbound method Foo.bar>

Huh?! Why does it say 'unbound' method? Shouldn't that be bound method 
(bound to Foo, that is)?

> So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ?

 >>> type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
<type 'function'>
 >>> type(Foo.bar)
<type 'instancemethod'>

instancemethod - now that's something new.


> The
> answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.
> 
> To make a long story short, the descriptor protocol specify that, when,
> during an attribute lookup, a name resolves to a class attribute AND
> this attribute has a __get__ method, then this __get__ method is called
>  (with either the instance or None and the class itself as arguments)

Depending, I assume, on whether this is instance call | class method 
call, respectively?

Hmm why does the __get__ receive class as argument on top of instance | 
None? After all, when having an instance, the class can always be found 
by instance.__class__ ? Is this for sake of class methods?

Python is science, I gather: an answer to one question bears another 10 
questions.

> and whatever it returns becomes the result of the attribute lookup. This
> mechanism is what provides support for computed attributes.
> 
> Now the trick is that the function type do implement the descriptor
> protocol. So when a function is an attribute of a class object and you
> try to access it as an attribute of either the class itself or an
> instance of the class, it's __get__ method is called with the instance
> (or None) and the class. 

> Having access to itself (of course),

Quick question: how does a function access itself? Aside from rejected 
PEP (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3130/) I don't see the way of 
accessing itself outside globals() (and even then how would a function 
know its name -- well it shouldn't care about it really, as function 
object doesn't care how it's labelled, right?). Or does in "real Python" 
func's __get__ receive its own function (func) as an argument, like in 
your example implementation below?

> the
> instance (if there's one) and the class, it's easy for it to wrap all
> this into a method object. Which is itself a callable object, that when
> called mostly inject the instance as first object in the argument's list
> and returns the result of calling the wrapped function object.

Aha! So that's the mechanism that makes self magically appear in an 
argument list! I always wondered how it worked. !!THANKS!!


> My 2 cents...

Well, Bruno -- that was more like $200!

Regards,
mk



From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:47:31 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:47:31 +0000
Subject: Help with lambda
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2iq9ulnh8.fsf@googlemail.com>

lallous <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> I am still fairly new to Python. Can someone explain to me why there
> is a difference in f and g:
>
> def make_power(n):
>     return lambda x: x ** n
>
> # Create a set of exponential functions
> f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> print f[0](3), f[1](3)
> print g[0](3), g[1](3)
>
>
> I expect to have "f" act same like "g".
>
> Thanks

It's a FAQ!  Except I don't think it's in the official Python FAQ, but
it ought to be.

The reason (very quickly) is that each time you call make_power() you
create a new name 'n' which is bound to a different value each time,
whereas in f:
       
    [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]

The 'n' is the same name for each of the lambda functions and so is
bound to the same value, which by the end of the loop is 4.  So each of
the lambdas in the list f is the same as:

    lambdsa x; x**4

after the end of the list comprehension.

The usual fix for this is to change f to:

f = [lambda x, n=n: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]

I'll let you think why this works.

HTH

-- 
Arnaud


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 07:52:02 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:52:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with lambda
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<m2iq9ulnh8.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <1a3903cd-b9f7-428b-a43d-47485e8620f6@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Yes it should be listed somewhere, now I get it. Thanks Arnaud.

--
Elias

On Feb 18, 1:47?pm, Arnaud Delobelle <arno... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Hello,
>
> > I am still fairly new to Python. Can someone explain to me why there
> > is a difference in f and g:
>
> > def make_power(n):
> > ? ? return lambda x: x ** n
>
> > # Create a set of exponential functions
> > f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> > g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> > print f[0](3), f[1](3)
> > print g[0](3), g[1](3)
>
> > I expect to have "f" act same like "g".
>
> > Thanks
>
> It's a FAQ! ?Except I don't think it's in the official Python FAQ, but
> it ought to be.
>
> The reason (very quickly) is that each time you call make_power() you
> create a new name 'n' which is bound to a different value each time,
> whereas in f:
>
> ? ? [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> The 'n' is the same name for each of the lambda functions and so is
> bound to the same value, which by the end of the loop is 4. ?So each of
> the lambdas in the list f is the same as:
>
> ? ? lambdsa x; x**4
>
> after the end of the list comprehension.
>
> The usual fix for this is to change f to:
>
> f = [lambda x, n=n: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> I'll let you think why this works.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Arnaud


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Feb 18 07:56:03 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:56:03 -0500
Subject: Help with lambda
In-Reply-To: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100218075603.f37aab5f.darcy@druid.net>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:28:00 -0800 (PST)
lallous <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> wrote:
> def make_power(n):
>     return lambda x: x ** n

Hint: type(make_power(2))

Did you expect that to return "int"?

> # Create a set of exponential functions
> f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]

The result of make_power(n) is a function that raises it's argument to
the power of n.  I don't know what you are trying to do.  Maybe this?

g = [make_power(n)(2) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
or
g = [make_power(2)(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 08:00:03 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:00:03 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
(snip)
>> class Foo2(object):
>>     """ naive solution : kinda work, BUT will fail
>>         with the real code that has  plain functions
>>         in 'tagada'
>>     """
>>     @staticmethod
>>     def bar(baaz):
>>         print baaz
>>
>>     tagada = {'bar': bar}
>>
>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>         self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)
> 
> Well I could always do:
> 
> if isinstance(self.tagada['bar'], staticmethod):
>     self.tagada['bar'].__get__(self)(baaz)
> else:
>     self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
> 
> But 1. this apparently defeats the purpose of using print_internal_date 
> on instance/class in 'normal' way, and 2. I probably shouldn't be doing 
> that since using isinstance is apparently like playing with yourself: 
> while technically legal, people look at you weirdly. :-)

As far as I'm concerned, this would be a valid use case for isinstance. 
But it breaks uniformity and requires quite a lot of mostly useless code.

>>
>> class Foo3(object):
>>     """ working solution 1 : defer the wrapping
>>         of 'bar' as a staticmethod
>>     """
>>     def bar(baaz):
>>         print baaz
>>
>>     tagada = {'bar': bar}
>>
>>     bar = staticmethod(bar)
>>
>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
> 
> Neat! I like this one.

Not me - with the wrapping so far away from the definition, it's too 
easy to miss part of the "process" when you come back to this code 6 
month later.

>>
>>
>> class Foo4(object):
>>     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
>>     @staticmethod
>>     def bar(baaz):
>>         print baaz
>>
>>     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}
>>
>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
> 
> Huh? How does this one work? After all, while in Foo4 body, the Foo4 
> does not exist yet? Does lambda defer evaluation to runtime (when it's 
> executed) or smth?

or smth, yes !-)

A lambda expression evals to an ordinary function - just like a def 
statement - so Foo4 is not resolved until Foo4.tagada['bar'] is actually 
called.

>> """ and as a "less worse" solution """
>>
>> def foo5bar(baaz):
>>    print baaz
>>
>> class Foo5(object):
>>     tagada = {'bar': foo5bar}
>>
>>     bar = staticmethod(foo5bar)
>>
>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
>>
> 
> Yes. I probably should have stayed with this one in the first place. I 
> feel bad for using up bandwidth and people's attention with such stuff...

Why so ? You learned something, I learned something, and quite a few 
other people will now have a chance to learn something. Sensible use of 
bandwith as far as I'm concerned. wrt/ people's attention, don't worry, 
it's up to the reader to pay attention or skip the whole topic !-)





From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:08:03 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:08:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with lambda
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2708.1266497732.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <62b3fe37-5f26-406b-a4e0-48bdb9a39b5c@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 1:56?pm, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:28:00 -0800 (PST)
>
> lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > def make_power(n):
> > ? ? return lambda x: x ** n
>
> Hint: type(make_power(2))
>
> Did you expect that to return "int"?
>

No, I expect to see a specialized function.

> > # Create a set of exponential functions
> > f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> > g = [make_power(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>
> The result of make_power(n) is a function that raises it's argument to
> the power of n. ?I don't know what you are trying to do. ?Maybe this?
>
> g = [make_power(n)(2) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> or
> g = [make_power(2)(n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
>


What I am trying to do is generate different functions.

If you're curious, I was playing with ctypes and wanted to see how it
handles C<->Python callbacks:

CB_T = WINFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int)
many_cb_t = CFUNCTYPE(c_int, c_int, CB_T)
many_cb   = many_cb_t(addressof(c_void_p.in_dll(dll, "many_cb")))
#ANY_SIMPLER

def make_power(n):
    return lambda x: x ** n

cbs = [CB_T(make_power(n)) for n in xrange(0, 1000)]
cbs.append(None)

many_cb(3, *cbs)

And the C code in a shared lib:

int many_cb(int value, ...)
{
  va_list va;
  va = va_start(va, value);
  cb_t cb;
  int s = 0;
  while ( (cb = va_arg(va, cb_t)) != NULL)
  {
    printf("calling %p", cb);
    int r = cb(value);
    s += r;
    printf(", r=%d\n", r);
  }
  va_end(va);
  return s;
}

Speaking of that, anyone has an idea how to make simpler the line with
#ANY_SIMPLER?

I try: many_cb = CB_T.in_dll(dll, "many_cb") <- but that seems to work
with data items only.


From leo at lspace.org  Thu Feb 18 08:27:30 2010
From: leo at lspace.org (Leo Breebaart)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 13:27:30 GMT
Subject: Using class attributes
References: <7tti4iFehdU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.2591.1266263629.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7tvmgtF68lU1@mid.individual.net> <m2pr45i6tg.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<7u4k52F6jsU1@mid.individual.net> <m2mxz6lnv7.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <7u4ti2Fv11U1@mid.individual.net>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> > One observation: if I implement the descriptor solution as
> > given above, the code works perfectly, but running the code
> > through pychecker now causes an error, because that again
> > causes an attempt to read from the non-existant base class
> > template file "Foo.tmpl"...

It's not just pychecker that doesn't like the descriptor
solution: pydoc now also crashes with the same IOError. :-)


> As someone said before, you could just provide a dummy Foo.tmpl
> file.

A pragmatic solution, but one that smells bad to me. All this
started because I didn't want my program to read files more than
once, but I also don't want it to read files it doesn't have to
read (and that don't even need to exist) in the first place!

I'll just go back to the original instance-based lazy evaluation
and caching solution now -- I never really had a big problem with
that.

My thanks again to all of you for helping me out with this.

-- 
Leo Breebaart  <leo at lspace.org>


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 18 08:30:35 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:30:35 -0500
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <hljcqq$irr$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<hljcqq$irr$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hljff2$r4l$1@ger.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
>>> 'self' in print_internal_date signature
>>
>> Indeed. Using it that way, the print_internal_date will not be wrapped
>> in a method object.
> 
> Hold on! How does Python know what to wrap and what not to wrap,
> assuming of course programmer doesn't use @classmethod or @staticmethod?
> Bc self has no special significance, it's just a (strong) convention,
> Python can't know what's the first argument of a function supposed to
> be, self or regular argument, and therefore it has no way of
> differentiating between functions (defined in class body) designed to
> become methods and those that are not?
> 
> Where can I read on Python internals like this (aside from post of
> yours, that is)? Bc  frankly skimming http://docs.python.org/reference/
> didn't give me impression that a lot on the subject is there (well
> there's some, I found smth akin to your explanation below, although
> yours is way more readable)?
> 
> Thanks for explanation below -- I'm going to ask some related questions.
> 
>> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
>> beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
>> when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
>>
>> The first thing is that the def statement *always* yield a function
>> object. Always. If you don't believe it, try the following snippet:
>>
>> class Foo(object):
>>     def bar(self):
>>         return "baaz"
>>
>> print Foo.__dict__.keys()
>> print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
> 
> Just one thing here:
> 
>>>> Foo.bar
> <unbound method Foo.bar>
> 
> Huh?! Why does it say 'unbound' method? Shouldn't that be bound method
> (bound to Foo, that is)?
> 
No. The "unbound method" means it's a callable class attribute. The
significance of "unbound" is that no specific instance is attached.

>> So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ?
> 
>>>> type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
> <type 'function'>
>>>> type(Foo.bar)
> <type 'instancemethod'>
> 
> instancemethod - now that's something new.
> 
Well "instancemethod" is just the type of the attribute. If you create a
Foo instance, its bar method also has type instancemethod, even though
it's a *bound* method:

>>> foo = Foo()
>>> foo
<__main__.Foo object at 0x7ff2a16c>
>>> foo.bar
<bound method Foo.bar of <__main__.Foo object at 0x7ff2a16c>>
>>> type(foo.bar)
<type 'instancemethod'>
>>>

Note that it's only when the method is looked up *from an instance of
the class* does the interpreter create the bound method. And remember
that this is behavior that's specific to Python 2.
> 
>> The
>> answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.
>>
>> To make a long story short, the descriptor protocol specify that, when,
>> during an attribute lookup, a name resolves to a class attribute AND
>> this attribute has a __get__ method, then this __get__ method is called
>>  (with either the instance or None and the class itself as arguments)
> 
> Depending, I assume, on whether this is instance call | class method
> call, respectively?
> 
Yes.

> Hmm why does the __get__ receive class as argument on top of instance |
> None? After all, when having an instance, the class can always be found
> by instance.__class__ ? Is this for sake of class methods?
> 
When Bruno wrote "... AND this attribute has a __get__ method ...", the
__get__method has to be defined on the attribute's class - the
interpreter won't even look at the instance when trying to resolve the
reference. But inheritance, of course, means that the same __get__
method may be used by several classes, and when there is no instance the
specific (sub)class in question must be identifiable. So you got that right.

> Python is science, I gather: an answer to one question bears another 10
> questions.
> 
Yes, but it isn't quite "turtles all the way down". Ultimately the
behavior we are discussing is hard-wired into the interpreter at the
__getattribute__ level.

>> and whatever it returns becomes the result of the attribute lookup. This
>> mechanism is what provides support for computed attributes.
>>
>> Now the trick is that the function type do implement the descriptor
>> protocol. So when a function is an attribute of a class object and you
>> try to access it as an attribute of either the class itself or an
>> instance of the class, it's __get__ method is called with the instance
>> (or None) and the class. 
> 
>> Having access to itself (of course),
> 
> Quick question: how does a function access itself? Aside from rejected
> PEP (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3130/) I don't see the way of
> accessing itself outside globals() (and even then how would a function
> know its name -- well it shouldn't care about it really, as function
> object doesn't care how it's labelled, right?). Or does in "real Python"
> func's __get__ receive its own function (func) as an argument, like in
> your example implementation below?
> 
The function is an object of type function, so the lookup triggers a
call to the __get__() method of the function's class, providing the
instance (that is the function that is being called) as the first argument.

>> the
>> instance (if there's one) and the class, it's easy for it to wrap all
>> this into a method object. Which is itself a callable object, that when
>> called mostly inject the instance as first object in the argument's list
>> and returns the result of calling the wrapped function object.
> 
> Aha! So that's the mechanism that makes self magically appear in an
> argument list! I always wondered how it worked. !!THANKS!!
> 
> 
>> My 2 cents...
> 
> Well, Bruno -- that was more like $200!
> 
I agree, this is stuff that's hard to understand, and Bruno's
explanations are most helpful.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 08:34:37 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:34:37 +0100
Subject: Referring to class methods in class attributes
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2707.1266497406.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlh9g6$k04$1@ger.gmane.org>	<7a9c25c21002170959sad21930sa730977ea33b1b7a@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2668.1266431854.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7c54a8$0$21284$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2707.1266497406.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d41e1$0$18857$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>>> Thanks, that worked. But in order to make it work I had to get rid of
>>> 'self' in print_internal_date signature
>>
>> Indeed. Using it that way, the print_internal_date will not be wrapped
>> in a method object.
> 
> Hold on! How does Python know what to wrap and what not to wrap, 
> assuming of course programmer doesn't use @classmethod or @staticmethod? 

answered below - read on, young padawan <g>

> Bc self has no special significance, it's just a (strong) convention, 
> Python can't know what's the first argument of a function supposed to 
> be, self or regular argument, and therefore it has no way of 
> differentiating between functions (defined in class body) designed to 
> become methods and those that are not?

Indeed.

> Where can I read on Python internals like this (aside from post of 
> yours, that is)? Bc  frankly skimming http://docs.python.org/reference/ 
> didn't give me impression that a lot on the subject is there (well 
> there's some, I found smth akin to your explanation below, although 
> yours is way more readable)?

Thanks <blush />

> Thanks for explanation below -- I'm going to ask some related questions.
> 
>> Mmmm... Let's try to explain the whole damn thing. It's really (and IMHO
>> beautifully) simple once you get it, but I agree it's a bit peculiar
>> when compared to most mainstream OO languages.
>>
>> The first thing is that the def statement *always* yield a function
>> object. Always. If you don't believe it, try the following snippet:
>>
>> class Foo(object):
>>     def bar(self):
>>         return "baaz"
>>
>> print Foo.__dict__.keys()
>> print type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
> 
> Just one thing here:
> 
>  >>> Foo.bar
> <unbound method Foo.bar>
> 
> Huh?! Why does it say 'unbound' method? Shouldn't that be bound method 
> (bound to Foo, that is)?

Yes, but it's not bound to a Foo instance.

>> So, why is it that type(Foo.bar) != type(Foo.__dict__['bar']) ?
> 
>  >>> type(Foo.__dict__['bar'])
> <type 'function'>

Yeps. That's the function object created by the def statement. Just a 
plain old function - expect it's an attribute of class object "Foo".

>  >>> type(Foo.bar)
> <type 'instancemethod'>
> 
> instancemethod - now that's something new.

Don't let the "<unbound method Foo.bar>" fools you - it's just 
instancemethod.__repr__ that issues different wording according to 
whether the instancemethod instance is bound or not.

> 
>> The
>> answer is : attribute lookup rules and the descriptor protocol.
>>
>> To make a long story short, the descriptor protocol specify that, when,
>> during an attribute lookup, a name resolves to a class attribute AND
>> this attribute has a __get__ method, then this __get__ method is called
>>  (with either the instance or None and the class itself as arguments)
> 
> Depending, I assume, on whether this is instance call | class method 
> call, respectively?

s/call/lookup/

If it's looked up on the class, there's no instance to pass to __get__.

> 
> Hmm why does the __get__ receive class as argument on top of instance | 
> None? After all, when having an instance, the class can always be found 
> by instance.__class__ ? Is this for sake of class methods?

Having access to the class is handy when you don't have the instance. 
The point is mostly to let the descriptor know how it has been looked up 
and take appropriate decisions based on this - for a definition of 
"appropriote" that depends on what the descriptor is intended for . 
Remember that this mechanism provides the generic support for all kind 
of computed attributes - methods, properties, and whatever you can write 
yourself.

> Python is science, I gather: an answer to one question bears another 10 
> questions.

That's the case with most technical domains - until you solved enough of 
the puzzle to start and see the big picture.

>> and whatever it returns becomes the result of the attribute lookup. This
>> mechanism is what provides support for computed attributes.
>>
>> Now the trick is that the function type do implement the descriptor
>> protocol. So when a function is an attribute of a class object and you
>> try to access it as an attribute of either the class itself or an
>> instance of the class, it's __get__ method is called with the instance
>> (or None) and the class. 
> 
>> Having access to itself (of course),
> 
> Quick question: how does a function access itself?

In that case, it's quite simple: function.__get__ is a method of the 
function type, so it's called with 'self' as first argument !-)

> Aside from rejected 
> PEP (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3130/) I don't see the way of 
> accessing itself outside globals()

You're confusing the function instance itself with the content of the 
def statement's block. The code within the def statement's block has no 
access to the function instance that will be built from it, but other 
methods of the function instance are, well, ordinary methods.

> (and even then how would a function 
> know its name -- well it shouldn't care about it really, as function 
> object doesn't care how it's labelled, right?). Or does in "real Python" 
> func's __get__ receive its own function (func)

it receives itself, yes. Ordinary method call, nothing magical here - 
well, almost...!-).

> as an argument, like in 
> your example implementation below?

Exactly.

>> the
>> instance (if there's one) and the class, it's easy for it to wrap all
>> this into a method object. Which is itself a callable object, that when
>> called mostly inject the instance as first object in the argument's list
>> and returns the result of calling the wrapped function object.
> 
> Aha! So that's the mechanism that makes self magically appear in an 
> argument list! I always wondered how it worked. 

Now you know. As far as I'm concerned, I do find this whole mechanism to 
be a thing of beauty - instead of special-casing methods, you just use 
plain functions and the much more generic descriptor protocol to achieve 
the same result - with much more flexibility.

> !!THANKS!!
> 
>> My 2 cents...
> 
> Well, Bruno -- that was more like $200!

Ok, make it 3 cents then !-)

More seriously, all this is explained in Raymond Hettinger's excellent 
'descriptor howto' article, that is linked from the official doc - and 
that's how I learned all this.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Feb 18 08:37:59 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:37:59 -0500
Subject: Python 3.0 usage?
In-Reply-To: <d457056b-6b9c-4a30-8532-850d7f2ea074@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <F2AB02F0-DEF9-481A-ADEA-A2CA1FA0900D@semanchuk.com>
	<mailman.2692.1266465072.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<d457056b-6b9c-4a30-8532-850d7f2ea074@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <110AD9FE-D49F-4BD5-9643-7F3FA7C7C4DD@semanchuk.com>


On Feb 18, 2010, at 12:20 AM, alex23 wrote:

> MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> Python 3.0 had a relatively short run before it was superseded by  
>> Python
>> 3.1 due to certain issues, so, IMHO, I wouldn't worry about it unless
>> someone especially requests/requires it.
>
> And even then, I'd just tell them I accept patches :)

Excellent idea. =)

Thanks to all who replied.

Cheers
Philip


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Thu Feb 18 08:39:21 2010
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:39:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to efficiently extract information from structured text file
References: <c8d7ee56-4a08-4ab5-b5da-79e617a97607@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<0f783ced-0414-4b44-acf1-79f8d288f41c@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.38.28@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <da5bc540-4601-4a51-b2a7-69d81082c679@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 7:38?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:13:23 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > And once you realize that every program is really a compiler, then you
> > have truly mastered the Zen of Programming in Any Programming Language
> > That Will Ever Exist.
>
> In the same way that every tool is really a screwdriver.
>
> --
> Steven

The way I learned this was:
- Use the right tool for the right job.
- Every tool is a hammer.

-- Paul


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:40:36 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:40:36 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hljfuk$tbk$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

>>>
>>>
>>> class Foo4(object):
>>>     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
>>>     @staticmethod
>>>     def bar(baaz):
>>>         print baaz
>>>
>>>     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}
>>>
>>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
>>
>> Huh? How does this one work? After all, while in Foo4 body, the Foo4 
>> does not exist yet? Does lambda defer evaluation to runtime (when it's 
>> executed) or smth?
> 
> or smth, yes !-)
> 
> A lambda expression evals to an ordinary function - just like a def 
> statement - so Foo4 is not resolved until Foo4.tagada['bar'] is actually 
> called.

This works, but... Foo4.bar in tagada is a staticmethod. So what's 
needed is Foo4.bar.__get__(x)  (not that I'm that smart, I just got 
'staticmethod is not callable' exception).

It appears I have to use __get__ anyway while referring to bar in Foo4 
methods:

def testrefer(self, val):
     self.bar.__get__(val)
     Foo4.bar.__get__(val)

At least I have to do this in my own code:

     def testit(self, fname):
         self.print_internal_date.__get__(fname + 'c')
         PYFileInfo.print_internal_date.__get__(fname + 'c')


Or else I get "TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable".







From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 08:56:44 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:56:44 -0400
Subject: Timer
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002171037s49568919te9840a9dabd37f29@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002171014g68d1904aw17eadd6acf74ef05@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002171037s49568919te9840a9dabd37f29@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002180556g7987b6a7rb6282ae3e21ec061@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Obviously, the removeCSS isn't going to work in that last line. What can I
>> put there to remove the splash page after 5 seconds?
>>
>
> Even though you're generating this with python, it doesn't have anything to
> do with Python. You'll have to use javascript and DHTML and enable/disable
> classes. How to do that is beyond the scope of this group, and might depend
> on the browser. I'd go look into jQuery or some such which will encapsulate
> such dynamic things better.
>

OK. Thanks.
beno
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From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 09:15:20 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 1:23?am, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> > On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> >> In message
> >> <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517... at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> >> > I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be a
> >> > nice feature for Python.
>
> >> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming
> >> > language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was perl.)
>
> >> Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?
>
> >> What more do you need?
>
> > I don't know, but I tend to find the name of the function I called to
> > be useful. It's much more memorable than line numbers, particularly
> > when line numbers keep changing.
>
> > I doubt it's just me, though.
>
> Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors:
>
> In any language it isn't much use if you get a bug report from a shipped
> program that says there was an error on line 793 but no report of
> exactly which version of the shipped code was being run.
>
> Microsoft love telling you the line number: if IE gets a Javascript
> error it reports line number but not filename, so you have to guess
> which of the HTML page or one of many included files actually had the
> error. Plus the line number that is reported is often slightly off.
>
> Javascript in particular is often sent to the browser compressed then
> uncompressed and eval'd. That makes line numbers completely useless for
> tracking down bugs as you'll always get the line number of the eval.
> Also the way functions are defined in Javascript means you'll often have
> almost every function listed in a backtrace as 'Anonymous'.

If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a
quadruple strawman.

Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
idea, even with named functions.

Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
running is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Of course, using anonymous functions in no way prevents you from
capturing a version number in a traceback.  And in most modern source
control systems, it is fairly easy to revert to an old version of that
code.

    def factory():
        return lambda: 15 / 0

    def bar(method):
        method()

    def foo(method):
        bar(method)

    def baz(method):
        foo(method)

    try:
        baz(factory())
    except:
        print 'problem with version 1.234a'
        raise

    problem with version 1.234a
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "foo.py", line 14, in <module>
        baz(factory())
      File "foo.py", line 11, in baz
        foo(method)
      File "foo.py", line 8, in foo
        bar(method)
      File "foo.py", line 5, in bar
        method()
      File "foo.py", line 2, in <lambda>
        return lambda: 15 / 0
    ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 09:23:27 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:23:27 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2711.1266500396.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<mailman.2711.1266500396.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7d4d52$0$9152$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> class Foo4(object):
>>>>     """ working solution 2 : use a lambda """
>>>>     @staticmethod
>>>>     def bar(baaz):
>>>>         print baaz
>>>>
>>>>     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}
>>>>
>>>>     def test(self, baaz):
>>>>         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)
>>>
>>> Huh? How does this one work? After all, while in Foo4 body, the Foo4 
>>> does not exist yet? Does lambda defer evaluation to runtime (when 
>>> it's executed) or smth?
>>
>> or smth, yes !-)
>>
>> A lambda expression evals to an ordinary function - just like a def 
>> statement - so Foo4 is not resolved until Foo4.tagada['bar'] is 
>> actually called.
> 
> This works, but... Foo4.bar in tagada is a staticmethod. So what's 
> needed is Foo4.bar.__get__(x)  (not that I'm that smart, I just got 
> 'staticmethod is not callable' exception).

Huh ???

class Foo4(object):

     @staticmethod
     def bar(baaz):
         print baaz

     tagada = {'bar': lambda x : Foo4.bar(x)}

     def test(self, baaz):
         self.tagada['bar'](baaz)

 >>> f = Foo4()
 >>> f.test(42)
42
 >>> Foo4.bar(42)
42
 >>>

WorksForMe(tm).



> It appears I have to use __get__ anyway while referring to bar in Foo4 
> methods:
 >
> def testrefer(self, val):
>     self.bar.__get__(val)
>     Foo4.bar.__get__(val)
> 
> At least I have to do this in my own code:
> 
>     def testit(self, fname):
>         self.print_internal_date.__get__(fname + 'c')
>         PYFileInfo.print_internal_date.__get__(fname + 'c')
> 
> 
> Or else I get "TypeError: 'staticmethod' object is not callable".

I think you broke something somewhere. Assuming you're using Python 2.x 
(>= 2.3 IIRC), my above code works.


From commander_coder at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 18 09:37:27 2010
From: commander_coder at hotmail.com (commander_coder)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:37:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
Message-ID: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I have a routine that sends an email (this is how a Django view
notifies me that an event has happened).  I want to unit test that
routine.  So I gave each mail a unique subject line and I want to use
python's mailbox package to look for that subject.  But sometimes the
mail gets delivered and sometimes it does not (I use sendmail to send
it but I believe that it is always sent since I can see an entry in
the mail log).

I thought that the mail delivery system was occasionally hitting my
mailbox lock, and that I needed to first sleep for a while.  So I
wrote a test that sleeps, then grabs the mailbox and looks through it,
and if the mail is not there then it sleeps again, etc., for up to ten
tries.  It is below.

However, I find that if the mail is not delivered on the first try
then it is never delivered, no matter how long I wait.  So I think I
am doing mailbox wrong but I don't see how.

The real puzzler for me is that the test reliably fails every third
time.  For instance, if I try it six times then it succeeds the first,
second, fourth, and fifth times.  I have to say that I cannot
understand this at all but it certainly makes the unit test useless.

I'm using Python 2.6 on an Ubuntu system.  If anyone could give me a
pointer to why the mail is not delivered, I sure could use it.

Thanks,
Jim

...................................................................

class sendEmail_test(unittest.TestCase):
    """Test sendEmail()
    """
    config = ConfigParser.ConfigParser()
    config.read(CONFIG_FN)
    mailbox_fn=config.get('testing','mailbox')

    def look_in_mailbox(self,uniquifier='123456789'):
        """If the mailbox has a message whose subject line contains
the
        given uniquifier then it returns that message and deletes it.
        Otherwise, returns None.
        """
        sleep_time=10.0  # wait for message to be delivered?
        message_found=None
        i=0
        while i<10 and not(message_found):
            time.sleep(sleep_time)
            m=mailbox.mbox(self.mailbox_fn)
            try:
                m.lock()
            except Exception, err:
                print "trouble locking the mailbox: "+str(err)
            try:
                for key,message in m.items():
                    subject=message['Subject'] or ''
                    print "subject is ",subject
                    if subject.find(uniquifier)>-1:
                        print "+++found the message+++ i=",str(i)
                        message_found=message
                        m.remove(key)
                        break
                m.flush()
            except Exception, err:
                print "trouble reading from the mailbox: "+str(err)
                m.unlock()
            try:
                m.unlock()
            except Exception, err:
                print "trouble unlocking the mailbox: "+str(err)
            try:
                m.close()
            except Exception, err:
                print "trouble closing the mailbox: "+str(err)
            del m
            i+=1
        return message_found

    def test_mailbox(self):
        random.seed()
        uniquifier=str(int(random.getrandbits(20)))
        print "uniquifier is ",uniquifier  # looks different every
time to me
        rc=az_view.sendEmail(uniquifier=uniquifier)
        if rc:
            self.fail('rc is not None: '+str(rc))
        found=self.look_in_mailbox(uniquifier)
        if not(found):
            self.fail('message not found')
        print "done"


From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Thu Feb 18 09:52:29 2010
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:52:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9fc69505-3224-4aa9-9357-2abb0af4abd2@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>



Wes James wrote:
> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"
>
> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []
>
> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
>
> a="['a','b']"
>
> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
>
> returns
>
> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
>
> when I want it to return ['a','b'].
>
> How can I do this?
>
> thx,
>
> -wes


I am surprised nobody gave you the simple answer yet that may even
work for your situation:

b=a[2:-2].split("','")


From roy at panix.com  Thu Feb 18 09:55:31 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:55:31 -0500
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-1BE3FC.09553018022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article 
<a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd at g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
 commander_coder <commander_coder at hotmail.com> wrote:

> The real puzzler for me is that the test reliably fails every third
> time.  For instance, if I try it six times then it succeeds the first,
> second, fourth, and fifth times.  I have to say that I cannot
> understand this at all but it certainly makes the unit test useless.

Just a wild guess here, but maybe there's some DNS server which 
round-robins three address records for some hostname you're using, one of 
which is bogus.

I've seen that before, and this smells like the right symptoms.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 18 10:18:57 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:18:57 -0600
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>

Wes James wrote:
> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
> "['a','b']"
> 
> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return []
> 
> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
> 
> a="['a','b']"
> 
> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
> 
> returns
> 
> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
> 
> when I want it to return ['a','b'].

Just to add to the list of solutions I've seen, letting the 
built-in csv module do the heavy lifting:

   >>> s = "['a','b']"
   >>> import csv
   >>> no_brackets = s[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
   >>> c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
   >>> c.next()
   ['a', 'b']

This also gives you a bit of control regarding how escaping is 
done, and other knobs & dials to twiddle if you need. 
Additionally, if you have more than one string to process coming 
from an iterable source (such as a file), you can just pass that 
iterator to csv.reader() instead of concocting a one-element list.

-tkc




From commander_coder at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:25:20 2010
From: commander_coder at hotmail.com (commander_coder)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-1BE3FC.09553018022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <2f2546c5-f5be-4f1a-b70f-f8afd973ea65@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:55 am, Roy Smith <r... at panix.com> wrote:
> Just a wild guess here, but maybe there's some DNS server which
> round-robins three address records for some hostname you're using, one of
> which is bogus.
>
> I've seen that before, and this smells like the right symptoms.

Everything happens on my laptop, localhost, where I'm developing.

I'm sorry; I wasn't sure how much information was too much (or too
little) but I should have said that.

Thank you.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 18 10:27:16 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:27:16 +0100
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
In-Reply-To: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7d5c47$0$9135$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

commander_coder a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I have a routine that sends an email (this is how a Django view
> notifies me that an event has happened).  I want to unit test that
> routine.  

http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/email/#e-mail-backends

Or if you're stuck with 1.x < 1.2a, you could just mock the send_mail 
function to test that your app does send the appropriate mail - which is 
what you really want to know.

My 2 cents...


From debatem1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:30:29 2010
From: debatem1 at gmail.com (geremy condra)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:30:29 -0500
Subject: Python library for working with simple equations
In-Reply-To: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <41834591-9853-49d0-a430-158a14179c63@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f3cc57c61002180730l552d1edch5e49b94ab59c9605@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 4:09 AM, lallous <lallous at lgwm.org> wrote:
> Hello
>
> Is there is any Python library that allow such things:
>
> Given a string expression as: x + 5 + x * (y + 2), any library that
> can develop the equation for example.
> Or if we say factor with "x" then it renders the expression with x *
> ( rest of expression ).
> There could be a functionality where when x,y are given then the
> expression can be evaluated.
> If there are two expressions, they can be added and the symbols
> preserved.
>
> Does such a thing exist?
>
> Thanks,
> Elias
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

>From sage:

>>> x = var('x')
>>> g = x**2 + x
>>> g(x=5)
30
>>> g.factor
... (x + 1)*x

Geremy Condra


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:36:29 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:36:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
Message-ID: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I was reading on SOA or Service Oriented Architecture for last few
days and got some questions. As this is a room for the expert computer
scientists, if you can help me solve my queries.

As per I read and felt SOA is an architecture, which relies on few
basic principles as,
the system must be modular, the modules must be distributive, module
interfaces must be clearly defined and documented, module that
implements a service can be swapped out for another module that offers
the same service and interface, service provider modules must be
shareable.
SOA is an architecture which is now a days governed like XML by W3C.
The latest version is SOAP 1.2.
SOA is implemented mainly in a client/server environment, where
applications have the use of service, thus we can say it is a service-
oriented architecture.
It is a step towards cloud computing with its sister WSDL and BPM.

If both client/server are following the SOA then they can communicate
and exchange information without worrying for platform.

SOAP is a software implementation of Python,.NET,J2EE based on this
principle.
SOAPPy is a Python implementation.

My questions are:
(i)	Am I understanding correctly?
(ii)	Does SOAP has any standard architecture like UML other than the
W3C one?
(iii)	Can I write short programs to check the SOAP using my personal
computer as client as well as Server?
(iv)	Is SOAPpy fine?
(v)	What is the difference among SOAP, WSDL and BPM.
(vi)	As SOAP is for communication with a server if I pick a URL and
start to communicate with Google/Yahoo would they allow?
(vii)	Can I design a web based robot/crawler with SOAP?

Wishing you a Happy Day Ahead,
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.



From sccolbert at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:44:00 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:44:00 -0500
Subject: How to use AWS/PAA nowadays? PyAWS / pyamazon outdated?
In-Reply-To: <555ef5e9-dc90-494d-affc-a78389f6922f@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <555ef5e9-dc90-494d-affc-a78389f6922f@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002180744v6faeec8dhd3110d03ab1c4a5a@mail.gmail.com>

This one works for the product API.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-amazon-product-api/0.2.1

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 5:09 AM, Snaky Love <snakylove at googlemail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> is anybody aware of any updated and / or maintained library for
> accessing AWS/PAA with Python? I found the dusty pyamazon and a
> derivate of it, pyaws, but both of them do not seem to support request
> signatures which must be used by August 15, 2009 to use the Amazon
> Services, and generally seem to be a little bit outdated...
>
> Is there a better way doing signed requests to AWS/PAA nowadays? How
> are you doing it?
>
> I found a good PHP Library here: http://getcloudfusion.com/docs - but
> I would like to program stuff with python - is there anything pythonic
> that is close to that?
>
> Thank you very much for your attention,
> have a nice day,
> Snaky
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:44:02 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:44:02 +0100
Subject: Static method
In-Reply-To: <4b7d4d52$0$9152$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <mailman.2701.1266491517.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d2a78$0$21465$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2705.1266496942.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7d39cb$0$23451$426a74cc@news.free.fr>	<mailman.2711.1266500396.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7d4d52$0$9152$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hljn62$p4o$1@ger.gmane.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

> I think you broke something somewhere. Assuming you're using Python 2.x 
> (>= 2.3 IIRC), my above code works.


ARGH! Forgot the "delayed staticmethod" line -- in effect I called 
staticmethod twice:

     @staticmethod
     def print_internal_date(filename):
         f = open(filename + 'c', "rb")
         data = f.read(8)
         mtime = struct.unpack("<i", data[4:])
         return time.asctime(time.gmtime(mtime[0]))

     tagdata = {'compiled_fname': lambda x: x + 'c',
                 'size': os.path.getsize,
                 'internal_date': lambda x: 
PYFileInfo.print_internal_date.__get__(x)
             }

     # HERE I BROKE IT
     print_internal_date = staticmethod(print_internal_date)

     def __init__(self, fname=None):
         FileInfo.__init__(self,fname)

     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
         FileInfo.__setitem__(self, key, value)
         if key == 'name' and value:
             self.__get_props(value)

     def testit(self, fname):
         self.print_internal_date(fname+'c')
         PYFileInfo.print_internal_date.__get__(fname+'c')


You're right. It works.



From misceverything at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:46:55 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:46:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
Message-ID: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>

I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
example, via HTTP/HTTPS).   Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.).  What would
be the best way to go about doing this?


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 18 10:50:29 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 15:50:29 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a
> quadruple strawman.
> 
> Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.

I doubt very much whether I have ever shipped any bug-free code but
even if it was fit for purpose when shipped it is quite possible that the 
software will interact badly with other software that did not exist at the 
time of shipping.

> 
> Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.

In principle I agree, but where Javascript is concerned compressing the 
downloaded files is generally a pretty good idea and practicality beats 
purity.

> 
> Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
> idea, even with named functions.

I think that's their decision, not mine.

> 
> Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
> running is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> 
I agree, but getting a complete coherent description out of a customer is 
not always an easy task. (I'm reading the word 'customer' here to include 
the case where there is no monetary relationship between the software 
author and the entity using it, but even when there is I think this still 
true.)


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From commander_coder at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 18 10:59:14 2010
From: commander_coder at hotmail.com (commander_coder)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:59:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7d5c47$0$9135$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <2163d143-e48c-4b07-b430-2ff9eedddc31@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 10:27 am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:

> you could just mock the send_mail
> function to test that your app does send the appropriate mail - which is
> what you really want to know.

That's essentially what I think I am doing.

I need to send a relatively complex email, multipart, with both a
plain text and html versions of a message, and some attachments.  I am
worried that the email would fail to get out for some reason (say,
attaching the html message fails), so I want to test it.  I started
out with a simple email, thinking to get unit tests working and then
as I add stuff to the email I'd run the tests to see if it broke
anything.

I could mock the send_mail function by having it print to the screen
"mail sent" or I could have a unit test that looked for the mail.  I
did the first, and it worked fine.  I thought to do the second,
starting with a unit test checking simply that the message got to the
mailbox.  But I am unable to check that, as described in the original
message.

Jim


From commander_coder at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:11:29 2010
From: commander_coder at hotmail.com (commander_coder)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:11:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7d5c47$0$9135$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <019bb3f3-a1ec-4650-8977-cc9f12ccca53@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

Bruno,  I talked to someone who explained to me how what you said
gives a way around my difficulty.  Please ignore the other reply.
I'll do what you said.  Thank you; I appreciate your help.

Jim


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 18 11:12:25 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:12:25 +0100
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7d66e9$0$6574$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

joy99, 18.02.2010 16:36:
> SOA is an architecture which is now a days governed like XML by W3C.
> The latest version is SOAP 1.2.

SOA has nothing to do with SOAP. SOAP is a (rather bloated) protocol for
remote procedure calls. SOA is a system architecture, be it distributed or not.

Stefan


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 11:15:46 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:50?am, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a
> > quadruple strawman.
>
> > Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.
>
> I doubt very much whether I have ever shipped any bug-free code but
> even if it was fit for purpose when shipped it is quite possible that the
> software will interact badly with other software that did not exist at the
> time of shipping.
>
>
>
> > Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.
>
> In principle I agree, but where Javascript is concerned compressing the
> downloaded files is generally a pretty good idea and practicality beats
> purity.
>
>
>
> > Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
> > idea, even with named functions.
>
> I think that's their decision, not mine.
>
>
>
> > Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
> > running is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> mpr
> I agree, but getting a complete coherent description out of a customer is
> not always an easy task. (I'm reading the word 'customer' here to include
> the case where there is no monetary relationship between the software
> author and the entity using it, but even when there is I think this still
> true.)
>

Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's unforgivable to occasionally
ship software with bugs.  It happens.

Compressing Javascript is sometimes necessary, but I believe that
often mangles named functions too.

To the the extent that your customer is running old software and
cannot always coherently describe tracebacks over a telephone, that
problem can be solved in the software itself, assuming an Internet
connection.  The software can capture the traceback and report back to
a server with the version number.

So, much of the argument against anonymous functions presented so far
is really orthogonal to whether functions are named or not.

Circling back to the original topic, Ruby blocks, I think there is a
misconception about how blocks are often used in Ruby.  Usually Ruby
blocks are inlined into a function and execute within that function.
Example:

    def print_numbers()
        [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
            [n * n, n * n * n]
        }.reject { |square, cube|
            square == 25 || cube == 64
        }.map { |square, cube|
            cube
        }.each { |n|
            puts n
            raise 'problem here'
        }
    end

    print_numbers()

The bug that I inserted into the "each" block gets reported in the
traceback:

foo.rb:10:in `print_numbers': problem here (RuntimeError)
	from foo.rb:2:in `each'
	from foo.rb:2:in `print_numbers'
	from foo.rb:14

(I do prefer Python tracebacks BTW, but that is again orthogonal to
blocks vs. named functions.)

The blocks of code in the above Ruby code are somewhat analogous to
blocks of code in Python that happen within certain control
structures, such as "if," "while," "with," etc.  The extra
expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can act on those
blocks with your own method.  Of course, there is always a tradeoff
between expressiveness and simplicity.  I know the person who gave the
talk about Ruby vs. Python, and trust me, nine times out of ten, he
prefers Python's simplicity to Ruby's expressiveness.  But he likes
blocks.

I'm in the same boat.  I use Python a lot, Ruby less so, but when I'm
in Ruby-land, I actually enjoy the expressiveness of blocks.  They're
not particularly dangerous, and they allow you to express certain
sequential operations tersely and sequentially.  The contrived code
below maps numbers to squares and cubes, then rejects a couple tuples,
then maps back to cubes, then prints each of the cubes.

    def print_numbers()
        [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
            [n * n, n * n * n]
        }.reject { |square, cube|
            square == 25 || cube == 64
        }.map { |square, cube|
            cube
        }.each { |n|
            puts n
        }
    end

IMHO there is no reason that I should have to name the content of each
of those four blocks of code, nor should I have to introduce the
"lambda" keyword.

I don't have a less contrived example handy, but the techniques above
apply often when you are filtering and massaging data.



From anfedorov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:19:02 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:19:02 -0500
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
Message-ID: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>

It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -, <,
==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
transitive, and anti-commutative.

Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
mathematical meanings?

- Andrey
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From tim.arnold at sas.com  Thu Feb 18 11:20:44 2010
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:20:44 -0500
Subject: best way to create a dict from string
Message-ID: <hljpd1$78g$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>

Hi,
I've got some text to parse that looks like this

text = ''' blah blah blah
\Template[Name=RAD,LMRB=False,LMRG=True]{tables}
ho dee ho
'''
I want to extract the bit between the brackets and create a dictionary. 
Here's what I'm doing now:

def options(text):
    d = dict()
    options = text[text.find('[')+1:text.find(']')]
    for k,v in [val.split('=') for val in options.split(',')]:
        d[k] = v
    return d

if __name__ == '__main__':
    for line in text.split('\n'):
        if line.startswith('\\Template'):
            print options(line)


is that the best way or maybe there's something simpler?  The options will 
always be key=value format, comma separated.
thanks,
--TIm




From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:28:01 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:28:01 -0800
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -, <,
> ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
> that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
> transitive, and anti-commutative.
>
> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
> mathematical meanings?
>

It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere, nor
assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the operators
doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not enforce anything for
these methods. Consider:

>>> class Test(object):
...     def __init__(self, v):
...             self.v = v
...     def __add__(self, other):
...             self.v = self.v + other
...             return "Ow!"
...
>>> t = Test(5)
>>> t + 2
'Ow!'
>>> t.v
7

It not only alters an operand, but its not even returning a meaningful
result. This can be abused, but is also useful for certain uses.

--S
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From anfedorov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:32:17 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:32:17 -0500
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7659cab31002180832w462287f8q9f7005180e770e91@mail.gmail.com>

>
> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere, nor
> assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the operators
> doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not enforce anything for
> these methods.


Right, so neither is anything in PEP-8, but it's still considered "good
practice". I'm running across examples like you gave (__sub__ having a
side-effect on the left-hand operand) in some code, and am trying to find
concrete justification for avoiding it.

- Andrey

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -,
>> <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
>> that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
>> transitive, and anti-commutative.
>>
>> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
>> mathematical meanings?
>>
>
> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere, nor
> assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the operators
> doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not enforce anything for
> these methods. Consider:
>
> >>> class Test(object):
> ...     def __init__(self, v):
> ...             self.v = v
> ...     def __add__(self, other):
> ...             self.v = self.v + other
> ...             return "Ow!"
> ...
> >>> t = Test(5)
> >>> t + 2
> 'Ow!'
> >>> t.v
> 7
>
> It not only alters an operand, but its not even returning a meaningful
> result. This can be abused, but is also useful for certain uses.
>
> --S
>
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Feb 18 11:37:52 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:37:52 -0500
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002180837y1dbab4e7xbb1c231f310c6fb1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -, <,
> ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
> that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
> transitive, and anti-commutative.
> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
> mathematical meanings?
> - Andrey

There are no assumptions about anything. You can do whatever you want
when you implement the functions yourself. For the numeric types, they
follow the intuitive meanings but that's not necessary for user
defined types. Of course, your users will get very confused if a == b
but b != a. Or if a == b and a != b at the same time.


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From chyavana at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:38:10 2010
From: chyavana at gmail.com (R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:38:10 +0800
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
In-Reply-To: <m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D6CF2.7010907@gmail.com>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Here is a very simple way to improve what you do, which won't require
> you to change the way you work or to learn a new paradigm:
> 
> Instead of testing your functions interactively, put your testing code
> in a file, e.g. 'program_tests.py'.  Your can then type
> 
>     python program_tests.py
> 
> at the shell interactive prompt.  To perform the tests again, just
> re-execute that file.  If your tests are divided into
> different units, you can put these in functions:
> 
>     def test_frobz():
>         #testing code for frobzation of klops
> 
>     def test_frizz():
>         #testing code for frizzment of frobzied klops
> 
>     # etc..
> 
> So if you want to keep doing interactive tests, you can import
> program_tests and call whichever testing functions you want.  You may
> even have arguments to those functions to test them with different
> parameters.
> 
> I know some people will point at more 'pro' ways of testing but this has
> the merit of being very straightforward.  Then when you move on to more
> sophisticated techniques, I think you will understand better the
> motivations behind them.

It took me some time to cotton on to exactly what you were saying, but 
once I grasped it and tried it out, I found it very effective and 
time-saving.

Thank you very much Arnaud.

--
Chandra


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:39:53 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 10:39:53 -0600
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hljqgo$6ai$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 10:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov wrote:
> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -,
> <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands.
> Also, that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should
> be transitive, and anti-commutative.
>
> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
> mathematical meanings?

Some of it is covered in the reference manual. E.g.

   http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__lt__

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From simon at brunningonline.net  Thu Feb 18 11:55:19 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:55:19 +0000
Subject: Is automatic reload of a module available in Python?
In-Reply-To: <m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <R5OdnbDcOaREYebWnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
	<m2zl37hq33.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002180855t359a7848xd9b85e724910e917@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/17 Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com>:
> I know some people will point at more 'pro' ways of testing but this has
> the merit of being very straightforward. ?Then when you move on to more
> sophisticated techniques, I think you will understand better the
> motivations behind them.

Oh, I don't know. I like to think I'm fairly "pro" when it comes to
TDD, and this is exactly what I do - a unit test module run from the
shell.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 18 11:58:54 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:58:54 +0100
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002180832w462287f8q9f7005180e770e91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<7659cab31002180832w462287f8q9f7005180e770e91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D71CE.6060904@sequans.com>

Andrey Fedorov wrote:
>
>     It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down
>     anywhere, nor assumed by the language, and the mathematical
>     meaning of the operators doesn't matter to Python. Python
>     purposefully does not enforce anything for these methods.
>
>
> Right, so neither is anything in PEP-8, but it's still considered 
> "good practice". I'm running across examples like you gave (__sub__ 
> having a side-effect on the left-hand operand) in some code, and am 
> trying to find concrete justification for avoiding it.
>
> - Andrey

This is all about communication. Python allows you to call a cat a dog. 
You'll confuse everyone if you do so, but you can do it.
If your '-' operator is doing something else than returning the sub 
result, it's your call, but do not expect people to get it easily. You'd 
better be good at writting the documentation :-)

JM



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 12:28:44 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:28:44 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
Message-ID: <hljtab$gru$1@ger.gmane.org>


Sorry to bother everyone again, but I have this problem bugging me:

#!/usr/bin/python -i

class Foo(object):

     def nostat(self,val):
         print val

     nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__

     @staticmethod
     def nostatget(*args, **kwargs):
         print 'args:', args, 'kwargs:', kwargs
         nostat.__orig_get__(*args, **kwargs)

     nostat.__get__ = nostatget
     setattr(nostat,'__get__',nostatget)


f = Foo()

f.nostat('a')

print f.nostat.__get__ is f.nostat.__orig_get__


This produces:

a
False

I expected to see 'nostatget' output: nostat.__get__ = nostatget 
obviously failed to replace this function's __get__ method.

The question is why? Isn't __get__ a normal attribute of a function nostat?

This is made so much weirder that nostat.__get__ is no longer original 
__get__, so it looks like it should have been replaced, but if so, why 
nostatget doesn't get called?

Regards,
mk





From simon at brunningonline.net  Thu Feb 18 13:14:22 2010
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:14:22 +0000
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c61002181014s6da28c8t7012d751cb077f3d@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 February 2010 15:36, joy99 <subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
> (iv) ? ?Is SOAPpy fine?

AFAIK, SOAPpy is unsupported, and a bit on the stale side. Those poor
souls forced to make SOAP calls with Python seem to be using Suds
mostly these days,.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:16:06 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:16:06 +0100
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know what happened to pyjs.org ?

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 13:44:23 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:44:23 +0000
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlk1pi$1qg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
> Does anyone know what happened to pyjs.org ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Daniel
> 
> 

According to google cache it was fine 13/02/2010 and it's down according 
to this.
http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/pyjs.org

HTH.

Mark Lawrence



From sccolbert at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:44:40 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:44:40 -0500
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>

it's working for me.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Daniel Fetchinson <
fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know what happened to pyjs.org ?
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:47:08 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:47:08 +0100
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002181047o434ddd4fsaad2e41937916bc0@mail.gmail.com>

>> Does anyone know what happened to pyjs.org ?
>
> it's working for me.

That's odd, it's unpingable for me from both Europe and the US, ping
says unknown host.

Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From python at bdurham.com  Thu Feb 18 13:54:27 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:54:27 -0500
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
Message-ID: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I'm doing a code review of an application that occassionally
writes blocks of secure data to temp files created with
tempfile.TemporaryFile( delete=True ).

How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile(
delete=True )?

Are there OS specific nuances I should be concerned about
regarding use of this function on Windows (XP or higher) or
Linux?

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 13:58:59 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B2D76D1-AE2A-47F0-A1D0-805CABA62150@gmail.com>

Down from here (NH, US).

S


On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:

> 



From comptekki at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 14:32:59 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:32:59 -0700
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Tim Chase
<python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Wes James wrote:
<snip>

>
> Just to add to the list of solutions I've seen, letting the built-in csv
> module do the heavy lifting:
>
> ?>>> s = "['a','b']"
> ?>>> import csv
> ?>>> no_brackets = s[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
> ?>>> c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
> ?>>> c.next()
> ?['a', 'b']
>
> This also gives you a bit of control regarding how escaping is done, and
> other knobs & dials to twiddle if you need. Additionally, if you have more
> than one string to process coming from an iterable source (such as a file),
> you can just pass that iterator to csv.reader() instead of concocting a
> one-element list.

Thx,  I think this will work for what I want.

-wes


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 18 14:33:11 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:33:11 +0000
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
In-Reply-To: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> I'm doing a code review of an application that occassionally writes 
> blocks of secure data to temp files created with tempfile.TemporaryFile( 
> delete=True ).
>  
> How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile( delete=True )?
>  
> Are there OS specific nuances I should be concerned about regarding use 
> of this function on Windows (XP or higher) or Linux?
>  
Well, the contents of temp files aren't encrypted, if that's what you're
asking, so if you're writing unencrypted data to a temp file then other
applications could read it.


From comptekki at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 14:56:16 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:56:16 -0700
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
	<533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Tim Chase
> <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>> Wes James wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>
>> Just to add to the list of solutions I've seen, letting the built-in csv
>> module do the heavy lifting:
>>
>> ?>>> s = "['a','b']"
>> ?>>> import csv
>> ?>>> no_brackets = s[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
>> ?>>> c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
>> ?>>> c.next()
>> ?['a', 'b']


Hmm.  When I put csv.reader in a class:

import csv

class IS_LIST():
    def __init__(self, format='', error_message='must be a list!'):
        self.format = format
        self.error_message = error_message
    def __call__(self, value):
        try:
            if value=='[]' or value=='':
            	value=[]
            else:
            	no_brackets = value[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
            	c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
		value=c.next()
            return (value, None)
        except:
            return (value, self.error_message)
    def formatter(self, value):
        return value

I get an error (when I take the "try" out):

AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'reader'

Why?

-wes


From nagle at animats.com  Thu Feb 18 14:58:32 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:58:32 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

John Nagle wrote:

>    I look at this as Python's answer to multicore CPUs and "Go".

    On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
designers of Intel's Nelahem core.  The four-core, eight thread
version is out now.  The six-core, twelve thread version is working;
the speaker has one in his lab.  The eight-core, sixteen thread version
is some months away.  This isn't an expensive CPU; this is Intel's
"converged" mainstream product.  (Although there will be a whole range
of "economy" and "performance" versions, all with the same core but
with some stuff turned off.)

    Python isn't ready for this.  Not with the GIL.

    Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
miss rate goes up accordingly.

					John Nagle


From malkarouri at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:00:17 2010
From: malkarouri at gmail.com (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:00:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
make a few comments though.

On Feb 18, 3:36?pm, joy99 <subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I was reading on SOA or Service Oriented Architecture for last few
> days and got some questions. As this is a room for the expert computer
> scientists, if you can help me solve my queries.
>
> As per I read and felt SOA is an architecture, which relies on few
> basic principles as,
> the system must be modular, the modules must be distributive, module
> interfaces must be clearly defined and documented, module that
> implements a service can be swapped out for another module that offers
> the same service and interface, service provider modules must be
> shareable.
> SOA is an architecture which is now a days governed like XML by W3C.

SOA is an architecture which can be implemented using any of a number
of different middleware choices. It is not governed or controlled by
anyone. You are mixing it up with SOAP, which is a web services
technology, currently governed by W3C.
For example, I tend to use SOA implemented using REST
(Representational State Transfer).

All of these technologies are somewhat explained in wikipedia. You
probably want to start there.

> The latest version is SOAP 1.2.

This is the latest of SOAP, not SOA.

> SOA is implemented mainly in a client/server environment, where
> applications have the use of service, thus we can say it is a service-
> oriented architecture.
> It is a step towards cloud computing with its sister WSDL and BPM.

A SOAP web service is described using WSDL. BPM is not really
connected with them, but is probably more connected with SOA as an
architecture. BPM can be implemented using SOAP/WSDL web services, as
can SOA.

>
> If both client/server are following the SOA then they can communicate
> and exchange information without worrying for platform.

You mean SOAP here.
In real life, there are interoperability issues. So various
implementations of SOAP will need a bit of work to actually work
together.

SOA is an architecture and does not help exchanging information in a
direct way.

>
> SOAP is a software implementation of Python,.NET,J2EE based on this
> principle.

SOAP is a web services protocol that was created before the concept of
SOA was developed enough for use and is largely independent of it.
SOAP has been implemented in many different languages, like
Java, .Net, C/C++, Python, etc.

> SOAPPy is a Python implementation.

SOAP implementations in Python are not of the best quality (in my
opinion, there are better ways to achieve the ends needed). SOAPpy is
currently a bit out of date. The better ones are ZSI (for client and
server) and suds (for clients).

I guess I have already answered some of your questions.

>
> My questions are:
> (i) ? ? Am I understanding correctly?

See above.

> (ii) ? ?Does SOAP has any standard architecture like UML other than the
> W3C one?

Depends on what you mean by architecture. SOAP is a standard. UML is a
way of modelling software and can be used to model web services, which
can then be implemented in SOAP.

> (iii) ? Can I write short programs to check the SOAP using my personal
> computer as client as well as Server?

Yes. Try ZSI examples (http://pywebsvcs.sourceforge.net/zsi.html).

> (iv) ? ?Is SOAPpy fine?

See above.

> (v) ? ? What is the difference among SOAP, WSDL and BPM.

SOAP standardise the communication between client and server. WSDL
describes the methods provided by a server to be consumed by a client
(interfaces in Java language). BPM is a management method to improve
business and is not a software protocol but an approach.

> (vi) ? ?As SOAP is for communication with a server if I pick a URL and
> start to communicate with Google/Yahoo would they allow?

To be able to talk SOAP to a server, it must understand SOAP. Some of
those companies do provide SOAP web service access, but their standard
search pages are accessible in pure HTTP (the way you browser uses
them).
To access a SOAP service you need to know the functions exported by
it, which are usually defined in a WSDL document.

> (vii) ? Can I design a web based robot/crawler with SOAP?

No. Web pages are accessed using simple HTTP. SOAP is usually deployed
on top of HTTP, but most web pages are not communicated using SOAP.
You can search for Python web crawling; there are a lot of examples on
the web.


Regards,

k


From python at bdurham.com  Thu Feb 18 15:09:28 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:09:28 -0500
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
In-Reply-To: <4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <1266523768.19867.1360705413@webmail.messagingengine.com>

MRAB,

> Well, the contents of temp files aren't encrypted, if that's what you're asking

I understand the contents of temp files aren't encrypted.

> if you're writing unencrypted data to a temp file then other applications could read it.

That's my concern - can other applications really read my temp files
created with tempfile.TemporaryFile( delete=True )?

I don't think so because:

1. These files appear to be exclusively locked by my process, eg. no
other processes can read or write to these temp files except the process
that created these files.

2. As soon as my process terminates (voluntarily or involuntarily), the
temp file gets deleted.

But I want to make sure.

Thanks, 
Mal


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 18 15:12:25 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:12:25 -0600
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>	<533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
	<533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7D9F29.7070002@tim.thechases.com>

> import csv
> 
> class IS_LIST():
>     def __init__(self, format='', error_message='must be a list!'):
>         self.format = format
>         self.error_message = error_message
>     def __call__(self, value):
>         try:
>             if value=='[]' or value=='':
>             	value=[]
>             else:
>             	no_brackets = value[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
>             	c = csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar="'")
> 		value=c.next()
>             return (value, None)
>         except:
>             return (value, self.error_message)
>     def formatter(self, value):
>         return value
> 
> I get an error (when I take the "try" out):
> 
> AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'reader'

A couple ideas occur to me:

1) you haven't copy/pasted the exact (or entirety of the) code, 
and something you're doing is shadowing the "csv" module

2) are you using Python 2.x or 3.x?  I don't know if the csv 
module has changed in 3.x but it should work in 2.x

The first thing to check would be to pull up a raw python prompt 
and see if your csv module has the expected reader:

   >>> import csv
   >>> csv.reader
   <built-in function reader>

If not, something likely changed in 3.x and you'd have to inspect 
the docs to see what happened to the reader.

If you get the above evidence of an existing reader, then you're 
likely shadowing it.

-tkc




From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:16:03 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:16:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: unit testing a routine that sends mail
References: <a9524166-5b0f-4740-8123-e2582faeeedd@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7348214b-4bd1-4f41-984c-1893fb51afae@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

commander_coder wrote:

> I have a routine that sends an email (this is how a Django view
> notifies me that an event has happened). ?I want to unit test that
> routine.

Are you opening SMTP and POP3 sockets??

If you are not developing that layer itself, just use Django's built-
in mock system. Here's my favorite assertion for it:

    def assert_mail(self, funk):
        from django.core import mail
        previous_mails = len(mail.outbox)
        funk()
        mails = mail.outbox[ previous_mails : ]
        assert [] != mails, 'the called block should produce emails'
        if len(mails) == 1:  return mails[0]
        return mails

You call it a little bit like this:

        missive = self.assert_mail( lambda:
mark_order_as_shipped(order) )

Then you can use assert_contains on the missive.body, to see what mail
got generated. That's what you are actually developing, so your tests
should skip any irrelevant layers, and only test the layers where you
yourself might add bugs.

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From daniele.gondoni at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:21:16 2010
From: daniele.gondoni at gmail.com (Daniele Gondoni)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:21:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2733.1266519548.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6777ece-9b45-4423-8e77-cfa743e67134@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Feb, 19:58, "sstein... at gmail.com" <sstein... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Down from here (NH, US).
>
> S
>
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>
>
>
>

Unreacheable from Italy as well...


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:26:58 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:26:58 -0500
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <4B2D76D1-AE2A-47F0-A1D0-805CABA62150@gmail.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B2D76D1-AE2A-47F0-A1D0-805CABA62150@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002181226o6f8c1e20u2d525c86ac96c59f@mail.gmail.com>

ah, yep, i was viewing the page chrome had cached. It's down for me too. I
lose the trace in Washington:

 3  G3-0-873.TAMPFL-LCR-08.verizon-gni.net (130.81.110.222)  14.399 ms
 17.917 ms  18.040 ms
 4  so-6-1-0-0.TPA01-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.29.242)  18.666 ms
 18.890 ms  19.232 ms
 5  ge-1-0-0-0.ATL01-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net (130.81.17.48)  36.460 ms
 38.546 ms  38.707 ms
 6  0.so-2-2-0.XT2.ATL5.ALTER.NET (152.63.86.73)  41.357 ms  33.709 ms
 35.851 ms
 7  * 0.so-7-0-0.XT2.ATL4.ALTER.NET (152.63.86.109)  34.522 ms  37.320 ms
 8  0.xe-10-1-0.BR3.ATL4.ALTER.NET (152.63.82.13)  37.558 ms  32.756 ms
 35.533 ms
 9  xe-11-2-0.edge4.Atlanta2.Level3.net (4.68.62.17)  37.715 ms  100.222 ms
 102.317 ms
10  ae-71-52.ebr1.Atlanta2.Level3.net (4.68.103.60)  40.227 ms  34.315 ms
 36.647 ms
11  ae-73-70.ebr3.Atlanta2.Level3.net (4.69.138.20)  42.695 ms  39.589 ms
 41.666 ms
12  ae-2-2.ebr1.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.132.86)  52.152 ms  54.256 ms
 54.540 ms
13  ae-61-61.csw1.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.134.130)  61.982 ms  62.316
ms  62.460 ms
14  ae-14-69.car4.Washington1.Level3.net (4.68.17.6)  55.660 ms  55.645 ms
 56.943 ms
15  CO-LOCATION.car4.Washington1.Level3.net (4.79.170.254)  59.423 ms
 58.914 ms  50.872 ms
16  * * *
17  * * *
18  * * *
19  * * *
20  * * *
21  * * *
22  * * *
23  * * *
24  * * *
25  * * *
26  * * *
27  * * *
28  * * *
29  * * *
30  * * *

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 1:58 PM, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com>wrote:

> Down from here (NH, US).
>
> S
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>
> >
>
>
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From python at bdurham.com  Thu Feb 18 15:32:12 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:32:12 -0500
Subject: Why do full path names to module show up multiple times in .PYC files?
Message-ID: <1266525132.23323.1360707279@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I just happened to look at a compiled Python 2.6.4 .PYC file in
an editor and noticed that the full path and file name of the
compiled module showed up in my .PYC file at least 10 different
times. Is there a reason for full vs. relative path names and why
does the module name need to be duplicated so many times?

It appears that .PYO files only use a filename (without a path).

I assume the only way for us to suppress path names (which may
have confidential client names) in our compiled distributions is
to use .PYO vs. .PYC files? Is this correct?

Thanks,
Malcolm
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Feb 18 15:33:14 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:33:14 -0500
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
In-Reply-To: <533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
	<533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
	<533df7fa1002181156l4055b8d0u7eeacecc0194aba1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002181233pbc1813eo11579e54ba6d8878@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Wes James <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I get an error (when I take the "try" out):
>
> AttributeError: 'function' object has no attribute 'reader'
>

 You have a function called "csv" that's defined after the import csv
statement is executed. That function has no attribute 'reader", so you
get the error. By the way, don't use a bare except- it's bad form
because it hides any other problems you have.


From luismgz at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 15:45:05 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:45:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2733.1266519548.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6777ece-9b45-4423-8e77-cfa743e67134@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ab331e39-bf23-4f62-a092-960dd07818b0@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 5:21?pm, Daniele Gondoni <daniele.gond... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18 Feb, 19:58, "sstein... at gmail.com" <sstein... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Down from here (NH, US).
>
> > S
>
> > On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>
> Unreacheable from Italy as well...

Same here (Buenos Aires, Argentina).


From irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl  Thu Feb 18 15:53:32 2010
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:53:32 +0100
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
In-Reply-To: <ab331e39-bf23-4f62-a092-960dd07818b0@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2733.1266519548.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6777ece-9b45-4423-8e77-cfa743e67134@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<ab331e39-bf23-4f62-a092-960dd07818b0@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7da919$0$22938$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

On 2/18/10 9:45 PM, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> On Feb 18, 5:21 pm, Daniele Gondoni<daniele.gond... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 18 Feb, 19:58, "sstein... at gmail.com"<sstein... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Down from here (NH, US).
>>
>>> S
>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>>
>> Unreacheable from Italy as well...
>
> Same here (Buenos Aires, Argentina).

It ain't down till Netcraft confirms it!

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pyjs.org

Oh wait...

-irmen



From CORY.L.NARDIN at saic.com  Thu Feb 18 16:00:19 2010
From: CORY.L.NARDIN at saic.com (Nardin, Cory L.)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:00:19 -0800
Subject: Python won't run
Message-ID: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502AC479A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Quickly, I have a Mac Intel with Windows XP installed.  Tried installing
Python 2.6.4 from the binary and also ActivePython 2.6.4.10.  Both
installations acted the same.  There seemed to be no problems during
installation (used default options), but when I try to run Python I get
an error message: "This application has failed to start because the
application configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application
may fix this problem."

 

Of course I searched on that error and it seems to be related to a MS
library.  In a few different places it was recommended to install the MS
Visual Studio redistributable package, which I did with no change in
outcome.  I really have no idea what to do.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Cory

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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 16:07:21 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:07:21 +0000
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>

Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
> Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
> make a few comments though.
This might be a Python group, but threads often drift way off topic, 
which added to the language itself make this a great group to read.  If 
you don't like the way a thread goes, you can always skip it.
> 
> On Feb 18, 3:36 pm, joy99 <subhakolkata1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Group,
>>
>> I was reading on SOA or Service Oriented Architecture for last few
>> days and got some questions. As this is a room for the expert computer
>> scientists, if you can help me solve my queries.
>>
>> As per I read and felt SOA is an architecture, which relies on few
>> basic principles as,
>> the system must be modular, the modules must be distributive, module
>> interfaces must be clearly defined and documented, module that
>> implements a service can be swapped out for another module that offers
>> the same service and interface, service provider modules must be
>> shareable.
>> SOA is an architecture which is now a days governed like XML by W3C.
> 
> SOA is an architecture which can be implemented using any of a number
> of different middleware choices. It is not governed or controlled by
> anyone. You are mixing it up with SOAP, which is a web services
> technology, currently governed by W3C.
> For example, I tend to use SOA implemented using REST
> (Representational State Transfer).
> 
> All of these technologies are somewhat explained in wikipedia. You
> probably want to start there.
> 
>> The latest version is SOAP 1.2.
> 
> This is the latest of SOAP, not SOA.
> 
>> SOA is implemented mainly in a client/server environment, where
>> applications have the use of service, thus we can say it is a service-
>> oriented architecture.
>> It is a step towards cloud computing with its sister WSDL and BPM.
> 
> A SOAP web service is described using WSDL. BPM is not really
> connected with them, but is probably more connected with SOA as an
> architecture. BPM can be implemented using SOAP/WSDL web services, as
> can SOA.
> 
>> If both client/server are following the SOA then they can communicate
>> and exchange information without worrying for platform.
> 
> You mean SOAP here.
> In real life, there are interoperability issues. So various
> implementations of SOAP will need a bit of work to actually work
> together.
> 
> SOA is an architecture and does not help exchanging information in a
> direct way.
> 
>> SOAP is a software implementation of Python,.NET,J2EE based on this
>> principle.
> 
> SOAP is a web services protocol that was created before the concept of
> SOA was developed enough for use and is largely independent of it.
> SOAP has been implemented in many different languages, like
> Java, .Net, C/C++, Python, etc.
> 
>> SOAPPy is a Python implementation.
> 
> SOAP implementations in Python are not of the best quality (in my
> opinion, there are better ways to achieve the ends needed). SOAPpy is
> currently a bit out of date. The better ones are ZSI (for client and
> server) and suds (for clients).
> 
> I guess I have already answered some of your questions.
> 
>> My questions are:
>> (i)     Am I understanding correctly?
> 
> See above.
> 
>> (ii)    Does SOAP has any standard architecture like UML other than the
>> W3C one?
> 
> Depends on what you mean by architecture. SOAP is a standard. UML is a
> way of modelling software and can be used to model web services, which
> can then be implemented in SOAP.
> 
>> (iii)   Can I write short programs to check the SOAP using my personal
>> computer as client as well as Server?
> 
> Yes. Try ZSI examples (http://pywebsvcs.sourceforge.net/zsi.html).
> 
>> (iv)    Is SOAPpy fine?
> 
> See above.
> 
>> (v)     What is the difference among SOAP, WSDL and BPM.
> 
> SOAP standardise the communication between client and server. WSDL
> describes the methods provided by a server to be consumed by a client
> (interfaces in Java language). BPM is a management method to improve
> business and is not a software protocol but an approach.
> 
>> (vi)    As SOAP is for communication with a server if I pick a URL and
>> start to communicate with Google/Yahoo would they allow?
> 
> To be able to talk SOAP to a server, it must understand SOAP. Some of
> those companies do provide SOAP web service access, but their standard
> search pages are accessible in pure HTTP (the way you browser uses
> them).
> To access a SOAP service you need to know the functions exported by
> it, which are usually defined in a WSDL document.
> 
>> (vii)   Can I design a web based robot/crawler with SOAP?
> 
> No. Web pages are accessed using simple HTTP. SOAP is usually deployed
> on top of HTTP, but most web pages are not communicated using SOAP.
> You can search for Python web crawling; there are a lot of examples on
> the web.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> k



From dick128 at verizon.net  Thu Feb 18 16:11:54 2010
From: dick128 at verizon.net (dick bly)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:11:54 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
Subject: Win32print apache mod_python vista
Message-ID: <4B7DAD19.00000C.07308@LAPTOP2>

I have a program that uses mod_python in Apache and does a win32print using
the default printer
This works fine under win xp but the configuration under vista raises and
error - no default printer found -
Its the same code, same Apache, same mod_python, same python - only
difference is vista so I am assuming vista is trying to be my friend by not
giving me access to the printers - can any help with this ?
 
Richard Bly
cell 817 996 6458
dick128 at verizon.net
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 18 16:18:51 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 13:18:51 -0800
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <533df7fa1002171548r7e797641o5262fe402ba5ce31@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7D5A61.7060203@tim.thechases.com>
	<533df7fa1002181132x64626794n7675e6083baf5b73@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2736.1266522979.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlkarr$5ch$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2736.1266522979.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Wes James  <comptekki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>        try:
>            if value=3D=3D'[]' or value=3D=3D'':
>            	value=3D[]
>            else:
>            	no_brackets =3D value[1:-1] # s.strip(' \t[]')
>            	c =3D csv.reader([no_brackets], quotechar=3D"'")
>		value=3Dc.next()
>            return (value, None)
>        except:
>            return (value, self.error_message)

Two important points:

* Don't use bare except: clauses

* Put less code in the try: clause to make it easier to track down
problems
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Feb 18 16:19:16 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:19:16 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B7DAED4.3010500@stoneleaf.us>

John Nagle wrote:
> John Nagle wrote:
> 
>>    I look at this as Python's answer to multicore CPUs and "Go".
> 
>    On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
> designers of Intel's Nelahem core.  The four-core, eight thread
> version is out now.  The six-core, twelve thread version is working;
> the speaker has one in his lab.  The eight-core, sixteen thread version
> is some months away.  This isn't an expensive CPU; this is Intel's
> "converged" mainstream product.  (Although there will be a whole range
> of "economy" and "performance" versions, all with the same core but
> with some stuff turned off.)
> 
>    Python isn't ready for this.  Not with the GIL.
> 
>    Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
> miss rate goes up accordingly.
> 
>                     John Nagle


Will the new GIL in 3.2 make this workable?  It would still be one 
thread at a time, though, wouldn't it.

~Ethan~


From ntwrkd at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 16:34:46 2010
From: ntwrkd at gmail.com (ntwrkd)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:34:46 -0800
Subject: LISA 2010 CFP
Message-ID: <f257b9ab1002181334h2e0bb7a0r63dc05e44e1d6217@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,
The USENIX Large Installation System Administration Conference is now
accepting paper proposals.
If you are interested in submitting a paper, please check out this
blog post about submitting a paper
(http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa10/cfp/), or feel free to contact me
directly if you think you might have a topic to present.

Thank you,
Matthew


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 18 16:40:42 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 13:40:42 -0800
Subject: Executing a command from within python using the subprocess module
References: <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlkc4q$lm4$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <5YudnaFysO8HouTWnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d at westnet.com.au>,
R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar <chyavana at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>---
>import subprocess
>
>width = 5
>height = 30
>colors = ['#abcdef]', '#456789']
>filename = "/tmp/image.png"
>
># I want to get the equivalent of variable interpolation in Perl
># so that the command
>#
># convert -size 5x30 gradient:#abcdef-#456789 /tmp/image.png

Here's the equivalent of Peter's cute code in simpler form:

cmd = [
    'convert',
    '-size',
    '%sx%s' % (width, height),
    'gradient:%s-%s' % tuple(colors),
    # above could also be: 'gradient:%s-%s' % (colors[0], colors[1]),
    filename,
    ]
subprocess.Popen(cmd)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 17:07:27 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 22:07:27 GMT
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7dba1e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:28:44 +0100, mk wrote:

>      nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__

I should point out that leading-and-trailing-double-underscore names are 
reserved for use by the language.

It's unlikely that Python will introduce a special method named 
__orig_get__, and in truth the prohibition against using such names is 
honoured more in the breach than in the observance (e.g. people often use 
metadata names like __version__, __author__, etc.). But just be aware 
that you are in technical breach of Python best practices, and should 
consider renaming it as _orig_get or __orig_get.


-- 
Steven


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb 18 17:11:24 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:11:24 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002181411r1a1c8eb9h5c244d54213dd848@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
<snip>
> ? On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
> designers of Intel's Nelahem core. ?The four-core, eight thread
> version is out now. ?The six-core, twelve thread version is working;
> the speaker has one in his lab. ?The eight-core, sixteen thread version
> is some months away. ?This isn't an expensive CPU; this is Intel's
> "converged" mainstream product. ?(Although there will be a whole range
> of "economy" and "performance" versions, all with the same core but
> with some stuff turned off.)
>
> ? Python isn't ready for this. ?Not with the GIL.

Is any language, save perhaps Erlang, really ready for it?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 17:12:02 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 22:12:02 GMT
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4b7dbb31$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:58:32 -0800, John Nagle wrote:

> John Nagle wrote:
> 
>>    I look at this as Python's answer to multicore CPUs and "Go".
> 
>     On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
> designers of Intel's Nelahem core.  The four-core, eight thread version
> is out now. [...]
> 
>     Python isn't ready for this.  Not with the GIL.

Pardon me, but Python is perfectly ready for this. Why aren't you using 
Jython or IronPython, if the GIL is such a drag on your use-case?



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 17:17:57 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 22:17:57 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> On Feb 18, 1:23?am, Duncan Booth <duncan.bo... at invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
>> > On Feb 17, 12:02?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
>> > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> >> In message
>> >> <8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517... at v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> >> > I used to think anonymous functions (AKA blocks, etc...) would be
>> >> > a nice feature for Python.
>>
>> >> > Then I looked at a stack trace from a different programming
>> >> > language with lots of anonymous functions. (I believe it was
>> >> > perl.)
>>
>> >> Didn?t it have source line numbers in it?
>>
>> >> What more do you need?
>>
>> > I don't know, but I tend to find the name of the function I called to
>> > be useful. It's much more memorable than line numbers, particularly
>> > when line numbers keep changing.
>>
>> > I doubt it's just me, though.
>>
>> Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors:
>>
>> In any language it isn't much use if you get a bug report from a
>> shipped program that says there was an error on line 793 but no report
>> of exactly which version of the shipped code was being run.
>>
>> Microsoft love telling you the line number: if IE gets a Javascript
>> error it reports line number but not filename, so you have to guess
>> which of the HTML page or one of many included files actually had the
>> error. Plus the line number that is reported is often slightly off.
>>
>> Javascript in particular is often sent to the browser compressed then
>> uncompressed and eval'd. That makes line numbers completely useless for
>> tracking down bugs as you'll always get the line number of the eval.
>> Also the way functions are defined in Javascript means you'll often
>> have almost every function listed in a backtrace as 'Anonymous'.
> 
> If this is an argument against using anonymous functions, then it is a
> quadruple strawman.

There really ought to be a special level of Hell for people who misuse 
"strawman" to mean "a weak or invalid argument" instead of what it 
actually means, which is a weak or invalid argument NOT HELD by your 
opponent, which you (generic you) made up specifically for the sake of 
shooting down.

If you actually read what Duncan says, he prefixes his response with:

"Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors".

Duncan's post is an argument against relying on line numbers as your 
main, or only, source of information about the location of bugs in 
Javascript.

In fact, this post is remarkable for the sheer number of actual strawman 
arguments that you (Steve Howell) use:


> Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Strawman #1: nobody said that shipping buggy code was a good idea, with 
or without named functions. But shipping buggy code *happens*, no matter 
how careful you are, so you need to expect bug reports back from users.

(And they will be *hard to find* bugs, because if they were easy to find 
you would have found them in your own testing before shipping.)


> Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Strawman #2: nobody said that obscuring line numbers was a good idea. But 
apparently compressing Javascript is valuable for other reasons, and 
obscuring the line numbers is the side-effect of doing so. 

And even knowing the line numbers is not necessarily useful, because many 
bugs aren't due to the line that raises the stack trace. Just because you 
know the line which failed doesn't mean you know how to fix the bug.


> Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
> idea, even with named functions.

Strawman #3: nobody said that staying on older versions is a good idea. 
But sometimes it happens whether you like it or not.

(Although I'd like to point out that from the end user's perspective, 
sometimes we don't want your stinkin' new version with all the anti-
features and pessimations and will stick to the old version for as long 
as possible. If you don't like it, then think a bit harder before adding 
anti-features like fragile, easily-corrupted databases which perform 
really, really badly when your home directory is mounted over the 
network. I'm talking to you, Firefox developers.)

And it doesn't really matter: you either end-of-life the old version, in 
which case you don't need to do anything about the bug report except say 
"upgrade", or you decide to continue support, in which case it doesn't 
matter whether the bug is reported for an old version or the latest 
version, you still need to fix it.


> Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
> running is a bad idea, even with named functions.

Strawman #4. 

See the pattern? When you attack a position the other guy hasn't taken, 
that's a strawman. When you make a weak argument, it's just a weak 
argument.



-- 
Steven


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 17:25:12 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:25:12 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>

This has to be a stupid question, but :)

I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
"generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
generalized system.

The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:

    def gen():
        # do my one-time processing here

        return
        yield

Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly. I
tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of course that didn't work.

TIA,
--S
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 17:26:33 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:26:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with lambda
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <39ded391-c814-4c17-936f-3a4f55c3d9ec@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 4:28?am, lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]

This is (pretty much) what the above code does.

>>> f = []
>>> n = 2
>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>> n = 3
>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>> n = 4
>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>> n = 5
>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)

Now, when you call f[0], you are calling "lambda x: x**n". What is
"n"?

You need some way of creating a new namespace and a new variable
pointing to what "n" was for that iteration. Python doesn't create a
namespace for every iteration like some languages may. You have to be
more explicit about that. After all, what would you expect the
following code to do?

>>> n = 5
>>> f = [lambda x: x**n for i in range(2,5)]
>>> n = 2
>>> f[0][5]

Or, just call a function that will have a new namespace *for every
call* and generate a function within each execution of that function
(like make_power does).


From brendon.wickham at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 17:44:17 2010
From: brendon.wickham at gmail.com (Brendon Wickham)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:44:17 +1100
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <c07e3c71002181444w3bdbd714kd62ef4e3625b66af@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 February 2010 08:07, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>>
>> Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
>> make a few comments though.
>
> This might be a Python group, but threads often drift way off topic, which
> added to the language itself make this a great group to read. ?If you don't
> like the way a thread goes, you can always skip it.


Perhaps...but he answered the question very well and with great, IMO, patience.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 17:49:38 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:49:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ? ? def print_numbers()
> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> ? ? ? ? }
> ? ? end
>

If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
not following Lisp in that regard.

for n in range(1,6):
    square = n*n
    cube = n*n*n
    if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
    print cube


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 17:56:09 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:56:09 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> This has to be a stupid question, but :)
>
> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
> "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
> generalized system.
>
> The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
>
>      def gen():
>          # do my one-time processing here
>
>          return
>          yield
>
> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly. I
> tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of course that didn't work.

class once(object):
     def __init__(self, func, *args, **kwds):
         self.func = func
         self.args = args
         self.kwds = kwds

     def __iter__(self):
         return self

     def next(self):
         self.func(*self.args, **self.kwds)
         raise StopIteration()


Then write regular functions with the one-time processing code (not 
generators!). When you go to pass them into your system that wants an iterator, 
just wrap it with once(func).

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 18:00:51 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 23:00:51 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7dc6a2$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 08:15:46 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's unforgivable to occasionally ship
> software with bugs.  It happens.

"Occasionally"? Oh, if only.

I would say that there probably isn't a non-trivial application in the 
world that is entirely bug-free. If you're shipping something more 
complex than the proverbial "Hello World", chances are high that there 
will be bugs, and the more complex the app, the more bugs are likely.


> Compressing Javascript is sometimes necessary, but I believe that often
> mangles named functions too.

It doesn't mangle the function, it mangles reporting of line numbers. But 
if you know the name of the function, it is much easier to recover from 
that loss of information.

 
> To the the extent that your customer is running old software and cannot
> always coherently describe tracebacks over a telephone, that problem can
> be solved in the software itself, assuming an Internet connection.  The
> software can capture the traceback and report back to a server with the
> version number.

I don't understand why you repeatedly mention "old software". It is 
irrelevant: the software is either supported, or not supported. If it's 
not supported, you don't care about the bugs. If it is supported, then it 
doesn't matter whether it is version 2.2 or 2.3 or the bleeding edge 2.4-
pre-alpha straight out of subversion, you still have to go through the 
same process of finding the bug, solving it, then rolling the fix out to 
all supported versions where the bug applies.

That's not to say that the version number isn't useful information to 
have, because it can be, but distinguishing between old versions and the 
current version isn't a useful distinction. In a sense, there are no old 
versions, there are merely multiple supported current versions.

> So, much of the argument against anonymous functions presented so far is
> really orthogonal to whether functions are named or not.

Not so. The point is that anonymous functions lack useful information, 
namely the function name. Because line numbers can be unreliable or even 
missing completely, and even when reliable many people have a mental 
blind-spot for them (I know I do, and I'm gratified to see I'm not the 
only one), lacking a good name for the function is a handicap. Not 
necessarily an insurmountable one, but anonymous functions are more 
troublesome than named functions.

You wouldn't name your functions:

f01, f02, f03, f04, ... f99

(say), unless you were trying to deliberately obfuscate your code. 
Anonymous functions are even more obfuscated than that. You can get away 
with it so long as you're only dealing with a few, in well-defined 
placed, but you wouldn't want to use them all over the place.

-- 
Steven


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 18:04:28 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:04:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 11:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ? ? def print_numbers()
> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> ? ? ? ? }
> ? ? end
>
> IMHO there is no reason that I should have to name the content of each
> of those four blocks of code, nor should I have to introduce the
> "lambda" keyword.

You could do it without intermediate names or lambdas in Python as:
def print_numbers():
    for i in [ cube for (square, cube) in
                         [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]]
               if square!=25 and cube!=64 ]:
        print i

But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:

def print_numbers():
    tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
    filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
cube!=64 ]
    for f in filtered:
        print f


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 18:08:32 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Feb 2010 23:08:32 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7dc870$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

Sorry for breaking the threading, but Stephen's original post hasn't come 
through to my provider.

On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> This has to be a stupid question, but :)
>
> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only
> really "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as
> part of a generalized system.
>
> The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
>
>      def gen():
>          # do my one-time processing here
>
>          return
>          yield

If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then surely 
there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the comment?


>> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly.

Meh. An empty generator is a funny thing to do, so it's not bad that it 
reads a bit funny. I don't have a problem with it.

If it really annoys you, you could do this:

def empty():
    for x in []:
        yield



-- 
Steven


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:30:54 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:30:54 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
Message-ID: <hlkijd$tt8$1@ger.gmane.org>

On Feb 18, 5:08 pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
 > On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
 >
 > > This has to be a stupid question, but :)
 >
 > > I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
 > > occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only
 > > really "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as
 > > part of a generalized system.
 >
 > > The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
 >
 > >      def gen():
 > >          # do my one-time processing here
 >
 > >          return
 > >          yield
 >
 > If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then surely
 > there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the comment?

Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it hits the 
return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the iterator, the 
code elided by the comment executes, then the return is hit, a StopIteration 
exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Feb 18 18:33:00 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:33:00 +1100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
> >
> >      def gen():
> >          # do my one-time processing here
> >
> >          return
> >          yield
> >
> > Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch
> > slightly. I tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of
> > course that didn't work.

No need to define functions or classes; let a generator expression take
care of it for you::

    >>> foo = (x for x in list())
    >>> foo.next()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
    StopIteration

-- 
 \           ?Value your freedom or you will lose it, teaches history. |
  `\     ?Don't bother us with politics,? respond those who don't want |
_o__)                               to learn.? ?Richard Stallman, 2002 |
Ben Finney


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Feb 18 18:35:02 2010
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:35:02 +1000
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hlkijd$tt8$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlkijd$tt8$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <2d56febf1002181535h782e8f41l9e50a87dd7360d36@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think it's a stupid question at all. =]. But wouldn't it solve the
problem if you call the generator the first time you need it to yield?

Cheers,
Xav


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 18, 5:08 pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au>
> wrote:
> > On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> >
> > > This has to be a stupid question, but :)
> >
> > > I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> > > occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only
> > > really "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as
> > > part of a generalized system.
> >
> > > The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
> >
> > >      def gen():
> > >          # do my one-time processing here
> >
> > >          return
> > >          yield
> >
> > If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then surely
> > there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the comment?
>
> Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it hits
> the return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the
> iterator, the code elided by the comment executes, then the return is hit, a
> StopIteration exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.
>
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
> enigma
>  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it
> had
>  an underlying truth."
>  -- Umberto Eco
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:36:02 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:36:02 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

> class once(object):
>    def __init__(self, func, *args, **kwds):
>        self.func = func
>        self.args = args
>        self.kwds = kwds
>
>    def __iter__(self):
>        return self
>
>    def next(self):
>        self.func(*self.args, **self.kwds)
>        raise StopIteration()
>

Hmm, yeah. I'd probably tweak it into a decorator and name it
sideeffect_only or something, but yeah, that's the right approach at least.

My motivation is clarity, I can just see a colleague a year from now asking
me, "... what the hell is return / yield?" and although this is more
expensive, its less clear to me.

Thanks.
--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:37:09 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:37:09 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4b7dc870$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7dc870$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002181537o441a4383s64656730c2dd5264@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> > The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
> >
> >      def gen():
> >          # do my one-time processing here
> >
> >          return
> >          yield
>
> If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then surely
> there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the comment?
>

Its possible I didn't explain myself well. I don't want a generator that
does /nothing at all/, but a generator that yields nothing.

Basically, I have a core system that loads up a bunch of modules
dynamically. The API of these modules is that their initialization function
is a generator that yields objects that the core system juggles. For the
majority of the cases, this is just fine.

A couple modules though, just really need to do a one-time action, and
everything's done. I /could/ change the initialization function to return a
generator, and not be a generator itself, and check if its None or not, etc.
But I don't really want to, as I like the API the way it is.

So really, the above generator looks like:

def initialize():
    os.environ["BLAH"] = 5

    return
    yield

In that its doing a single side-effect action and that's it.


> >> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly.
>
> Meh. An empty generator is a funny thing to do, so it's not bad that it
> reads a bit funny. I don't have a problem with it.
>

It doesn't -really- annoy me, it just makes me flinch slightly, and that's
very rare. Even the stranger things to do in Python rarely make me flinch.
So I was wondering if I missed something basically, and if there's a proper
way to do it.

--S
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:40:01 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:40:01 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002181540x7ac9bc33uf112609b9e47ef02@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Stephen Hansen <apt.shansen at gmail.com>wrote:

> My motivation is clarity, I can just see a colleague a year from now asking
> me, "... what the hell is return / yield?" and although this is more
> expensive, its less clear to me.
>

MORE clear to me. A class / decorator / whatever may be more expensive then
return / yield, but it reads better and is more clear, to me.

Not less.

Ahem.

--S
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From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb 18 18:47:18 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:47:18 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <878waqw1h5.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? ? def print_numbers()
>> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
>> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
>> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
>> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
>> ? ? ? ? }
>> ? ? end
>>
>
> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
> not following Lisp in that regard.
>
> for n in range(1,6):

                   ^ should be 7

But for the rest, I agree with you. I can read Steve's version, but even
to an experienced Perl programmer that looks quite noisy :-)

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 18 18:49:08 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:49:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Feb, 23:33, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
[...]
> No need to define functions or classes; let a generator expression take
> care of it for you::
>
> ? ? >>> foo = (x for x in list())
> ? ? >>> foo.next()
> ? ? Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ? ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ? StopIteration

What about

    foo = iter('')

Then there is the interesting

    foo = iter(int, 0)

:)

--
Arnaud


From john at castleamber.com  Thu Feb 18 18:50:29 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:50:29 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<878waqw1h5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <874olew1bu.fsf@castleamber.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:

> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>
>> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? ? def print_numbers()
>>> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
>>> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
>>> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
>>> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
>>> ? ? ? ? }
>>> ? ? end
>>>
>>
>> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
>> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
>> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
>> not following Lisp in that regard.
>>
>> for n in range(1,6):
>
>                    ^ should be 7
>
> But for the rest, I agree with you. I can read Steve's version, but even
> to an experienced Perl programmer that looks quite noisy :-)

Oh, wait, it's Ruby :-D.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From jjposner at optimum.net  Thu Feb 18 18:57:10 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:57:10 -0500
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7DD3D6.9030403@optimum.net>

On 2/18/2010 12:28 PM, mk wrote:
>
> Sorry to bother everyone again, but I have this problem bugging me:
>
> #!/usr/bin/python -i
>
> class Foo(object):
>
> def nostat(self,val):
> print val
>
> nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__
>
> @staticmethod
> def nostatget(*args, **kwargs):
> print 'args:', args, 'kwargs:', kwargs
> nostat.__orig_get__(*args, **kwargs)
>
> nostat.__get__ = nostatget
> setattr(nostat,'__get__',nostatget)
>
>
> f = Foo()
>
> f.nostat('a')
>
> print f.nostat.__get__ is f.nostat.__orig_get__
>
>
> This produces:
>
> a
> False
>
> I expected to see 'nostatget' output: nostat.__get__ = nostatget
> obviously failed to replace this function's __get__ method.

I don't quite understand the above sentence, so I'm assuming that you 
wanted the final "is" test to be "True" instead of "False".

It looks like you've replaced ...

  (A) the original __get__() method

... with ...

  (B) a new method that *calls* the original __get__() method

So why should you expect (A) and (B) to be the same object?

>
> The question is why? Isn't __get__ a normal attribute of a function nostat?
>
> This is made so much weirder that nostat.__get__ is no longer original
> __get__, so it looks like it should have been replaced, but if so, why
> nostatget doesn't get called?
>
> Regards,
> mk
>
>
>

-John


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 18 19:08:25 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:08:25 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlkkpl$2k5$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/18/2010 5:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> This has to be a stupid question, but :)
>
> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
> "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
> generalized system.
>
> The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
>
>      def gen():
>          # do my one-time processing here
>
>          return
>          yield
>
> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch slightly. I
> tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of course that didn't work.

Did you try

def gen():
   <stuff>
   if 0: yield

?
tjr



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Thu Feb 18 19:10:31 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:10:31 -0800
Subject: [Tutor] "Sounding" Off, IDLE (Win7)
Message-ID: <hlkktt$nv2$1@news.eternal-september.org>

In Win7 IDLE, when I type in something with a syntax problem, a bell 
rings. How do I stop that? I've looked at Control Panel Sounds, but 
don't see anything of apparent use.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 19:12:10 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:12:10 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlkl0o$4nb$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 17:33 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> On 2010-02-18 16:25 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>>> The only way I can figure out how to make an empty generator is:
>>>
>>>       def gen():
>>>           # do my one-time processing here
>>>
>>>           return
>>>           yield
>>>
>>> Is there a better way? The return/yield just makes me flinch
>>> slightly. I tried just raising StopIteration at the end, but of
>>> course that didn't work.
>
> No need to define functions or classes; let a generator expression take
> care of it for you::
>
>      >>>  foo = (x for x in list())
>      >>>  foo.next()
>      Traceback (most recent call last):
>        File "<stdin>", line 1, in<module>
>      StopIteration

He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that executes some 
given side-effect-producing code then immediately raises the StopIteration.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 19:12:10 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:12:10 -0000
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2746.1266531087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8clikria8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:11:24 -0000, Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>>   On that note, I went to a talk at Stanford yesterday by one of the
>> designers of Intel's Nelahem core.  The four-core, eight thread
>> version is out now.  The six-core, twelve thread version is working;
>> the speaker has one in his lab.  The eight-core, sixteen thread version
>> is some months away.  This isn't an expensive CPU; this is Intel's
>> "converged" mainstream product.  (Although there will be a whole range
>> of "economy" and "performance" versions, all with the same core but
>> with some stuff turned off.)
>>
>>   Python isn't ready for this.  Not with the GIL.
>
> Is any language, save perhaps Erlang, really ready for it?

occam :-)


-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Thu Feb 18 19:19:32 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:19:32 +1100
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
In-Reply-To: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1266538772.3062.12.camel@rambutan>

On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> example, via HTTP/HTTPS).   Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.).  What would
> be the best way to go about doing this?


I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
you might find it useful:

  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky

Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).


  Cheers,

     Ryan

-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 19:20:49 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:20:49 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlklh1$6eq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 17:36 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com
> <mailto:robert.kern at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     class once(object):
>         def __init__(self, func, *args, **kwds):
>             self.func = func
>             self.args = args
>             self.kwds = kwds
>
>         def __iter__(self):
>             return self
>
>         def next(self):
>             self.func(*self.args, **self.kwds)
>             raise StopIteration()
>
>
> Hmm, yeah. I'd probably tweak it into a decorator and name it
> sideeffect_only or something, but yeah, that's the right approach at least.

Well, with a decorator, you could even use the cringeworthy return/yield syntax 
while keeping it hidden from your users (not to mention reducing the amount of 
boilerplate people need to write).


from functools import wraps

def sideeffect_only(func):
     @wraps(func)
     def wrapper(*args, **kwds):
         func(*args, **kwds)
         # Some helpful comment about why there is a return/yield.
         return
         yield
     return wrapper


But you can also write one where the wrapper() returns a once() instance. It 
might be useful to use the once class instead of a generator such that you can 
write code that distinguishes side-effect only iterators from other iterators in 
your system. It might be useful for debugging if nothing else.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 19:26:59 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:26:59 -0000
Subject: string to list when the contents is a list
References: <mailman.2682.1266450528.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<9fc69505-3224-4aa9-9357-2abb0af4abd2@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8cl69s8a8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:52:29 -0000, nn <pruebauno at latinmail.com> wrote:

> Wes James wrote:
>> I have been trying to create a list form a string.  The string will be
>> a list (this is the contents will look like a list).  i.e. "[]" or
>> "['a','b']"
>>
>> The "[]" is simple since I can just check if value == "[]" then return  
>> []
>>
>> But with "['a','b']" I have tried and get:
>>
>> a="['a','b']"
>>
>> b=a[1:-1].split(',')
>>
>> returns
>>
>> [ " 'a' "," 'b' " ]
>>
>> when I want it to return ['a','b'].
>>
>> How can I do this?
>>
>> thx,
>>
>> -wes
>
>
> I am surprised nobody gave you the simple answer yet that may even
> work for your situation:
>
> b=a[2:-2].split("','")

Because it's really *very* not robust.  "Harmless" whitespace defeats it  
for starters, and that's one of the most likely things to vary between  
example data and reality.  If you trust your data to be well-formed enough  
for this to work, you might as well use eval() instead.  If you don't,  
parsing is the only sensible answer.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From anfedorov at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 19:30:40 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:30:40 -0500
Subject: Bypassing properties on an object (also with __slots__?)
Message-ID: <7659cab31002181630j7e7ebdbdw1110b859a587d568@mail.gmail.com>

Two questions:

1 - is it documented that o.__dict__[attr] is a reliable way to bypass
property methods?
2 - can one bypass a property method if the class has __slots__?

Reason: I have a couple of different flavors of request objects which I need
to make lazily conform to a standard interface. As a simplified example,

a_foo_request = { 'ip': '1.2.3.4' }
a_bar_request = { 'my-ip': b'\x01\x02\x03\x04' }


My solution is to create two classes:

class FooRequest(dict):
    @property
    def ip(self):
        return self['ip']

class BarRequest(dict):
    @property
    def ip(self):
        return "%i.%i.%i.%i" % struct.unpack("4B", self['my-ip'])


Then:

FooRequest(a_foo_request).ip == '1.2.3.4'

# and
req = BarRequest(a_bar_request)
req.ip == '1.2.3.4'

But some of these getters are CPU-intensive, and since the extended objects
always remain immutable, I memoize them in req.__dict__, like:

class BarRequest(dict):
    @property
    def ip(self):
        if 'ip' in self.__dict__:
            return self.__dict__['ip']
        else:
            self.__dict__['ip'] = "%i.%i.%i.%i" % struct.unpack("4B",
self['my-ip'])
            return self.__dict__['ip']


Which works as intended, and (I think) can be made prettier with a custom
constant_property decorator. So...

Question 0: Is there an obvious better way of achieving this functionality?
Question 1: Is it safe to rely on __dict__ to bypass properties this way?
Question 2: I'd like to use __slots__, but I can't seem to find a way to
stop the property method from recursing. Is there one?

Cheers,
Andrey
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 19:32:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 00:32:03 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:30:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

>  > If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then
>  > surely there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the
>  > comment?
> 
> Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it
> hits the return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the
> iterator, the code elided by the comment executes, then the return is
> hit, a StopIteration exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.

I don't understand why you care about having *any* code before the 
StopIteration. That's like:

def empty():
    for x in range(1000):
        pass # Spin wheels uselessly
    return
    yield


What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?



-- 
Steven


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Feb 18 19:33:00 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:33:00 +1100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> What about
>     foo = iter('')

That doesn't return a generator.

    >>> foo = iter('')
    >>> foo
    <listiterator object at 0xf7cd3ed0>

Whether the OP needs to create a generator, or just any iterable type,
isn't clear.


Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that
> executes some given side-effect-producing code then immediately raises
> the StopIteration.

Ah, hm. That's a rather perverse use case, but I'm sure the OP has their
reasons. It's going to confuse a reader who isn't expecting it, no
matter how simply it's done.

So, I think the best answer is what has already been suggested, but that
it's perverse enough that the hack *needs* a comment to say why it's
being done.

    def make_empty_generator_with_side_effect():
        """ Make a generator that does important work, but is empty. """

        # Do the important work here.
        spam = object()

        # Make this function return an empty generator.
        if False: yield

-- 
 \              ?When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir |
  `\                                              cevinpl.? ?Anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 19:36:00 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 00:36:00 GMT
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<mailman.2737.1266523770.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ddcf0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:09:28 -0500, python wrote:

> That's my concern - can other applications really read my temp files
> created with tempfile.TemporaryFile( delete=True )?


>>> import tempfile
>>> x = tempfile.TemporaryFile(delete=True)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: TemporaryFile() got an unexpected keyword argument 'delete'


The Fine Manual has good information about the security of the various 
calls:

http://docs.python.org/library/tempfile.html

tempfile.TemporaryFile(...)
    Return a file-like object that can be used as a temporary 
    storage area. ... your code should not rely on a temporary file
    created using this function having or not having a visible name 
    in the file system. ...

tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile(...)
    This function operates exactly as TemporaryFile() does, except 
    that the file is guaranteed to have a visible name in the file 
    system ... Whether the name can be used to open the file a 
    second time, while the named temporary file is still open, varies
    across platforms... 


> I don't think so because:
> 
> 1. These files appear to be exclusively locked by my process, eg. no
> other processes can read or write to these temp files except the process
> that created these files.

Exclusive locks are advisory, not mandatory, on some operating systems, 
so you can't rely on it. Recent versions of Windows have an interface to 
allow "backup software" to read files opened in exclusive mode, and I 
believe that the kernel can read *and write* to open files (although I 
welcome correction).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_locking

And naturally, if your system is compromised with a root kit, then you 
can't trust *anything*, including file locks. But nobody expects an 
application to take responsibility for working securely in the face of a 
root kit :)


> 2. As soon as my process terminates (voluntarily or involuntarily), the
> temp file gets deleted.
> 
> But I want to make sure.


I think the best practice is platform-dependent:


if os.name = "posix":  # Unix, Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, ... 
    tmpfile = tempfile.TemporaryFile
    delete = None
elif os.name in ["nt", "ce"]:  # Windows NT, XP, 2000, CE, ...
    tmpfile = tempfile.NamedTemporaryFile
    delete = True
else:
    # FIXME What to do for Mac, OS/2, RiscOS, Java?
    tmpfile = tempfile.TemporaryFile
    delete = None
if delete is not None:
    f = tmpfile(*args, delete=delete)
else:
    f = tmpfile(*args)
    


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 18 19:36:10 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 00:36:10 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2756.1266538362.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ddcfa$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:12:10 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

> He wants an iterator that executes some given side-effect-producing code
> then immediately raises the StopIteration.

Ah, that's the bit I missed!

Yewww. Programming by side-effect... I hope the original poster has a 
good reason for such a thing.


-- 
Steven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 20:11:19 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:11:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <004104b2-519d-4d03-ba0f-c17e115e416b@s33g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:04?pm, "sjdevn... at yahoo.com" <sjdevn... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> You could do it without intermediate names or lambdas in Python as:
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? for i in [ cube for (square, cube) in
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[(n*n, n*n*n) for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if square!=25 and cube!=64 ]:
> ? ? ? ? print i
>
> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> cube!=64 ]
> ? ? for f in filtered:
> ? ? ? ? print f

Step away from the keyboard! This is a programmer's arrest!

There are laws around here, laws that we can't allow to be broken.
You've just broken 12 of them. You think the laws don't apply to you,
huh, punk? HUH?

I'm sentencing you to three months HARD LABOR in Ruby for that code
you just wrote. And if you think it's too harsh, then I'll sentence
you to NINE MONTHS PHP and see how you feel about that!

;-)


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Thu Feb 18 20:11:52 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:11:52 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8cn92xda8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:50:14 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
> network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
> use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
> couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.

By the looks of it, pyffmpeg may have some support for streamed input.  If  
not, you might be able to put something together from tstools  
(http://developer.berlios.de/projects/tstools/) -- it's not what the tools  
were intended for, but there are Python bindings to the libraries that  
might help depending on exactly how you are streaming your video.   
Unfortunately the documentation is sparse to put it mildly, and pyffmpeg  
makes tstools look positively informative about how you're supposed to use  
it.


-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Feb 18 20:19:32 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:19:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating Import Hooks
References: <9ba26789-a125-40e3-a832-8b6013aa3462@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<daa4b1c1-f9cd-4bd2-a6b8-526c23628501@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.18.08.57.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f79d99e4-cab4-44d4-903a-3815542b2d24@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b538d6ee-f0f0-44e3-a81d-81612d89347c@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 1:28?am, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 1:57?pm, Steven D'Aprano
>
>
>
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 00:03:51 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> > > On Feb 17, 10:48?pm, Sreejith K <sreejith... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Hi everyone,
>
> > >> I need to implement custom import hooks for an application
> > >> (http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0302/). I want to restrict an
> > >> application to import certain modules (say socket module). Google app
> > >> engine is using a module hook to do this (HardenedModulesHook in
> > >> google/ appengine/tools/dev_appserver.py). But I want to allow that
> > >> application to use an sdk module (custom) which imports and uses socket
> > >> module. But the module hook restricts the access by sdk. Finding out,
> > >> which file is importing a module give a solution?? ie. If the
> > >> application is importing socket module, I want to restrict it. But if
> > >> the sdk module is importing socket I want to allow it. Is there any way
> > >> I can do this ?
>
> > >> Application
> > >> ========
> > >> import sdk
> > >> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I dont want to allow this (need to raise
> > >> ImportError)
>
> > >> SDK
> > >> ====
> > >> import socket ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # need to allow this
>
> > > SDK
> > > ===
> > > import socket
>
> > > App
> > > ===
> > > import SDK
> > > import sys
> > > socket = sys.modules['socket']
>
> > I'm not sure, but I think Sreejith wants to prohibit imports from the App
> > layer while allowing them from the SDK layer, not work around a
> > prohibition in the SDK layer.
>
> > In other words, he wants the import hook to do something like this:
>
> > if module is socket and the caller is not SKD:
> > ? ? prohibit
> > else
> > ? ? allow
>
> > I could be wrong of course.
>
>
> @Steven, Thats exactly what I want.. Anyway to do that ??
>

My point was that it's really pointless to try to enforce any such
thing on the program or programmer. There are ways around it. If you
don't want them to play with socket, write in the documentation:
"Don't play with the 'socket' module."

If you want to prevent them from touching sockets at all, it's time to
rethink your design. You may want to have a talk with Bruce Schneier,
or at least read what he's written if you still think you need to
somehow shut down a part of the system to its users.

Oftentimes, programmers think they need to have control over what
other people write, forgetting that they are able to do what they do
due to the freedoms afforded them. They also forget that they are not
in control of what other programmers do, anymore than a grocery store
who refuses to stock a certain product can prevent people from getting
that product.

Write your code to expand freedoms, not limit them. If your design
depends on limiting the choices of your users, you have done something
wrong.


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Feb 18 20:28:49 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:28:49 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:30:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
> 
>>  > If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then
>>  > surely there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the
>>  > comment?
>> 
>> Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it
>> hits the return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the
>> iterator, the code elided by the comment executes, then the return is
>> hit, a StopIteration exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.
> 
> I don't understand why you care about having *any* code before the
> StopIteration. That's like:
> 
> def empty():
>     for x in range(1000):
>         pass # Spin wheels uselessly
>     return
>     yield
> 
> 
> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?

I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop like

for it in list_of_iterables:
    for x in it:
        do_this_or_that (x)

where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code into the 
process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.

	Mel.




From rantingrick at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 22:26:51 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "Sounding" Off, IDLE (Win7)
References: <hlkktt$nv2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <2a3bacb8-b324-4189-a98a-d35b70358b48@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 6:10?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> In Win7 IDLE, when I type in something with a syntax problem, a bell
> rings. How do I stop that? I've looked at Control Panel Sounds, but
> don't see anything of apparent use.

Monkey Patch Said: """ Turn off your speakers"""


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 22:43:14 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:43:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7dc6a2$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a7b428a4-fad7-4d41-9cfc-256260b8e89c@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:00?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> [...]
> You wouldn't name your functions:
>
> f01, f02, f03, f04, ... f99
>

Exactly.

> (say), unless you were trying to deliberately obfuscate your code.
> Anonymous functions are even more obfuscated than that. You can get away
> with it so long as you're only dealing with a few, in well-defined
> placed, but you wouldn't want to use them all over the place.
>

I have contributed to the confusion of this discussion by talking
about "anonymous functions," when the original context was "anonymous
blocks."  As I mentioned in an earlier response, most anonymous blocks
in Ruby are placed within outer functions, so they're not that hard to
locate in a traceback that provides only function names.  And, of
course, it is often the case that you host Ruby code on your own web
server, or that you distribute Ruby code without compressing it, in
which case you get a sane traceback that provides line numbers.

You actually use anonymous blocks in your own code, in a few, well-
defined places (generally loops).

These excerpts are taken from obfuscate.py:

            quotient = a//mm
            a, mm = mm, a%mm
            xx, x = x - quotient*xx, xx
            yy, y = y - quotient*yy, yy


            rail = it.next()  # The rail we add to.
            assert 0 <= rail < rails
            fence[rail].append(c)


                # Save one non-chaff character.
                buffer.append(msg.next())
                # And toss away more chaff.
                n = self.hash(key) % factor
                key = self.mod_key(key)
                self.get_chars(n, msg)


            # Careful here! Not all classes have a __dict__!
            adict = getattr(obj, '__dict__', {})
            for name, attr in adict.items():
                if inspect.ismethoddescriptor(attr):
                    d[nm + '.' + name] = attr.__get__(obj)

If any of the above code were to fail on a customer site, you'd
probably want to get line numbers in a traceback.  I'm guessing you
probably don't distribute your code in compressed form, and you
probably take care to make sure it works right in the first place, and
you probably have source control to help you pull up old versions of
your code.  I notice that you even have a __version__ identifier in
your source code, which users of your library could capture in their
tracebacks.  In other words, you probably use mostly the same
practices that I use, except that we seem to differ on the utility or
expressiveness or Ruby blocks, or maybe we're arguing at cross
purposes.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 18 22:48:21 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:48:21 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hll1no$vfu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 06:15:20 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
[...]
> There really ought to be a special level of Hell for people who misuse 
> "strawman" to mean "a weak or invalid argument" instead of what it 
> actually means, which is a weak or invalid argument NOT HELD by your 
> opponent, which you (generic you) made up specifically for the sake of 
> shooting down.
> 
> If you actually read what Duncan says, he prefixes his response with:
> 
> "Some problems with using just line numbers to track errors".
> 
> Duncan's post is an argument against relying on line numbers as your 
> main, or only, source of information about the location of bugs in 
> Javascript.
> 
> In fact, this post is remarkable for the sheer number of actual strawman 
> arguments that you (Steve Howell) use:
> 
> 
>> Shipping buggy code is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> 
> Strawman #1: nobody said that shipping buggy code was a good idea, with 
> or without named functions. But shipping buggy code *happens*, no matter 
> how careful you are, so you need to expect bug reports back from users.
> 
> (And they will be *hard to find* bugs, because if they were easy to find 
> you would have found them in your own testing before shipping.)
> 
> 
>> Obscuring line numbers is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> 
> Strawman #2: nobody said that obscuring line numbers was a good idea. But 
> apparently compressing Javascript is valuable for other reasons, and 
> obscuring the line numbers is the side-effect of doing so. 
> 
> And even knowing the line numbers is not necessarily useful, because many 
> bugs aren't due to the line that raises the stack trace. Just because you 
> know the line which failed doesn't mean you know how to fix the bug.
> 
> 
>> Having your customers stay on older versions of your software is a bad
>> idea, even with named functions.
> 
> Strawman #3: nobody said that staying on older versions is a good idea. 
> But sometimes it happens whether you like it or not.
> 
> (Although I'd like to point out that from the end user's perspective, 
> sometimes we don't want your stinkin' new version with all the anti-
> features and pessimations and will stick to the old version for as long 
> as possible. If you don't like it, then think a bit harder before adding 
> anti-features like fragile, easily-corrupted databases which perform 
> really, really badly when your home directory is mounted over the 
> network. I'm talking to you, Firefox developers.)
> 
> And it doesn't really matter: you either end-of-life the old version, in 
> which case you don't need to do anything about the bug report except say 
> "upgrade", or you decide to continue support, in which case it doesn't 
> matter whether the bug is reported for an old version or the latest 
> version, you still need to fix it.
> 
> 
>> Not being able to know which version of software you're customer is
>> running is a bad idea, even with named functions.
> 
> Strawman #4. 
> 
> See the pattern? When you attack a position the other guy hasn't taken, 
> that's a strawman. When you make a weak argument, it's just a weak 
> argument.
> 
Next week: Lesson 2 - Ad Hominem Attacks

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 18 22:49:16 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:49:16 -0500
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
In-Reply-To: <c07e3c71002181444w3bdbd714kd62ef4e3625b66af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<c07e3c71002181444w3bdbd714kd62ef4e3625b66af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hll1pd$vfu$2@ger.gmane.org>

Brendon Wickham wrote:
> On 19 February 2010 08:07, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
>>> Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
>>> make a few comments though.
>> This might be a Python group, but threads often drift way off topic, which
>> added to the language itself make this a great group to read.  If you don't
>> like the way a thread goes, you can always skip it.
> 
> 
> Perhaps...but he answered the question very well and with great, IMO, patience.

+1
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 18 22:52:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:52:13 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlkgi9$nj6$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<7a9c25c21002181536n50f8af58p3217b52c4142624a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hll1uv$vfu$3@ger.gmane.org>

Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com
> <mailto:robert.kern at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     class once(object):
>        def __init__(self, func, *args, **kwds):
>            self.func = func
>            self.args = args
>            self.kwds = kwds
> 
>        def __iter__(self):
>            return self
> 
>        def next(self):
>            self.func(*self.args, **self.kwds)
>            raise StopIteration()
> 
> 
> Hmm, yeah. I'd probably tweak it into a decorator and name it
> sideeffect_only or something, but yeah, that's the right approach at least.
> 
> My motivation is clarity, I can just see a colleague a year from now
> asking me, "... what the hell is return / yield?" and although this is
> more expensive, its less clear to me.
> 
> Thanks.
> --S
> 
So add a comment to the yield statement so it reads

    yield # force empty generator

I realise that Jacob Kaplan-Moss calls comments in the code "lies", but
the reader really only needs a small clue.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 22:57:35 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:04?pm, "sjdevn... at yahoo.com" <sjdevn... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 11:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ? ? def print_numbers()
> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> > ? ? ? ? }
> > ? ? end
>
> > IMHO there is no reason that I should have to name the content of each
> > of those four blocks of code, nor should I have to introduce the
> > "lambda" keyword.
>
> You could do it without intermediate names or lambdas in Python as:
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? for i in [ cube for (square, cube) in
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[(n*n, n*n*n) for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if square!=25 and cube!=64 ]:
> ? ? ? ? print i


The problem with list comprehensions is that they read kind of out of
order.  On line 2 you are doing the first operation, then on line 3
you are filtering, then on line 1 your are selecting, then on line 4
you are printing.

For such a small example, your code is still quite readable.

> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> cube!=64 ]
> ? ? for f in filtered:
> ? ? ? ? print f

The names you give to the intermediate results here are
terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.

In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
something like this:

   departments
   departments_in_new_york
   departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
   employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
   names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 18 22:57:53 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:57:53 +0000
Subject: "Sounding" Off, IDLE (Win7)
In-Reply-To: <2a3bacb8-b324-4189-a98a-d35b70358b48@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <hlkktt$nv2$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2a3bacb8-b324-4189-a98a-d35b70358b48@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7E0C41.5000405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

rantingrick wrote:
> On Feb 18, 6:10 pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
>> In Win7 IDLE, when I type in something with a syntax problem, a bell
>> rings. How do I stop that? I've looked at Control Panel Sounds, but
>> don't see anything of apparent use.
> 
> Monkey Patch Said: """ Turn off your speakers"""

But what if you like to listen to music while programming?

Look in the folder <pythonfolder>\Lib\idlelib for a file called 
"config-extensions.def". In it is a line:

     bell=1

Change that to:

     bell=0

Save the file and restart IDLE.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 18 22:58:21 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:58:21 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> writes:

>> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
>> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>>
>> def print_numbers():
>> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
>> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
>> cube!=64 ]
>> ? ? for f in filtered:
>> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.

But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
lists in memory.  I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.

> In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> something like this:
>
>    departments
>    departments_in_new_york
>    departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle

http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.10.4/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html#generalised-list-comprehensions

might be of interest.  Maybe Ruby and/or Python could grow something similar.


From python at bdurham.com  Thu Feb 18 23:19:41 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:19:41 -0500
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
In-Reply-To: <4b7ddcf0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com><4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com><mailman.2737.1266523770.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddcf0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1266553181.26400.1360768933@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Steven,

Thank you very much for your wonderful reply!! 

I had read the Fine Manual, but as you pointed out the documentation
only mentions visibility of file names.

> Exclusive locks are advisory, not mandatory, on some operating systems, so you can't rely on it. 

That comment and your list of OS specific behaviors were EXACTLY the
type of information I was looking for.

Thanks again!
Malcolm



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 23:27:06 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:27:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <e37a162b-f5c6-4d04-9b3c-a79130f2986a@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 10:58?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> >> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> >> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> >> def print_numbers():
> >> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> >> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> >> cube!=64 ]
> >> ? ? for f in filtered:
> >> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> > The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> > terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
> lists in memory. ?I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
> Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.

I don't know how Ruby works, either.  If it's using constant memory,
switching the Python to generator comprehensions (and getting constant
memory usage) is simply a matter of turning square brackets into
parentheses:

def print_numbers():
    tuples = ((n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6))
    filtered = ( cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
                 cube!=64 )
    for f in filtered:
        print f

Replace (1,2,3,4,5,6) with xrange(100000000) and memory usage still
stays constant.

Though for this particular example, I prefer a strict looping solution
akin to what Jonathan Gardner had upthread:

for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6):
    square = n*n
    cube = n*n*n
    if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
    print cube

> > In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> > something like this:
>
> > ? ?departments
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle

I don't think the assertion that the names would be ridiculously long
is accurate, either.

Something like:

departments = blah
ny_depts = blah(departments)
non_bonus_depts = blah(ny_depts)
non_bonus_employees = blah(non_bonus_depts)
employee_names = blah(non_bonus_employees)

If the code is at all well-structured, it'll be just as obvious from
the context that each list/generator/whatever is building from the
previous one as it is in the anonymous block case.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 23:32:08 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:32:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:19?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > example, via HTTP/HTTPS). ? Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.). ?What would
> > be the best way to go about doing this?
>
> I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> you might find it useful:
>
> ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
>
> Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
> come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
> py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).
>
> ? Cheers,
>
> ? ? ?Ryan


This looks pretty interesting and useful.

Just to help me understand it a bit more:  what is it that users will
download from some web page in order to initially get the py2exe'd app
on their system?  Is it "really" an "esky", with the app's .exe file
inside it (but the esky is named the same as the app)?  And then when
they want to update, the app's code calls the esky class to do the
work of swapping out the appropriate .exe file?  Something like this?
Sorry if I am confused as to how this works.

Would this also work if one used InnoSetup to install the exe on the
user's system?

Thanks,
Che



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 23:46:04 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:46:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 2:49?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ? ? def print_numbers()
> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> > ? ? ? ? }
> > ? ? end
>
> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
> not following Lisp in that regard.
>
> for n in range(1,6):
> ? ? square = n*n
> ? ? cube = n*n*n
> ? ? if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
> ? ? print cube

There's definitely a cognitive dissonance between imperative
programming and functional programming.  It's hard for programmers
used to programming in an imperative style to appreciate a functional
approach, because functional solutions often read "upside down" in the
actual source code and common algebraic notation:

    def compute_squares_and_cubes(lst):
        return [(n * n, n * n * n) for n in lst]

    def reject_bad_values(lst):
        return [(square, cube) for (square, cube) \
            in lst if not (square == 25 or cube == 64)]

    def cubes_only(lst):
        return [cube for square, cube in lst]

    def print_results(lst):
        # 1. compute_squares_and_cubes
        # 2. reject_bad_values
        # 3. take cubes_only
        # 4. print values
        for item in \
            cubes_only( # 3
                reject_bad_values( # 2
                    compute_squares_and_cubes(lst))): # 1
            print item # 4

You can, of course, restore the natural order of operations to read
top-down with appropriate use of intermediate locals:

    def print_results(lst):
        lst2 = compute_squares_and_cubes(lst)
        lst3 = reject_bad_values(lst2)
        lst4 = cubes_only(lst3)
        for item in lst4:
            print item



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 18 23:57:47 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:57:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <96c65bac-2bc1-4ae0-8349-45ec0c3404d9@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:58?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> >> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> >> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> >> def print_numbers():
> >> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> >> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> >> cube!=64 ]
> >> ? ? for f in filtered:
> >> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> > The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> > terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
> lists in memory. ?I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
> Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.
>

That's a really good question.  I don't know the answer.  My hunch is
that you could implement generators using Ruby syntax, but it's
probably not implemented that way.

The fact that Python allows you to turn the intermediate results into
generator expressions is a very powerful feature, of course.

> > In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> > something like this:
>
> > ? ?departments
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>
> http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.10.4/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html...
>
> might be of interest. ?Maybe Ruby and/or Python could grow something similar.

Can you elaborate?



From python at bdurham.com  Fri Feb 19 00:02:44 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:02:44 -0500
Subject: Using compileall to create -OO type .pyo files
Message-ID: <1266555764.31891.1360772585@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I've read the documentation on compileall and tried using this
module directly.

Nowhere can I find how to specify to compileall that it should
create .pyo vs. .pyc files.

Goal: I would like to use the compileall.compile_dir() method to
generate -OO type .pyo files as part of a larger Python build
script.
Thanks,
Malcolm
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From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 00:05:04 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<e37a162b-f5c6-4d04-9b3c-a79130f2986a@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d6a6c19f-ec2c-4cd8-8c8d-d33c7419365e@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 8:27?pm, "sjdevn... at yahoo.com" <sjdevn... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 10:58?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
 > Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> > >> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> > >> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> > >> def print_numbers():
> > >> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> > >> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> > >> cube!=64 ]
> > >> ? ? for f in filtered:
> > >> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> > > The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> > > terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> > But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
> > lists in memory. ?I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
> > Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.
>
> I don't know how Ruby works, either. ?If it's using constant memory,
> switching the Python to generator comprehensions (and getting constant
> memory usage) is simply a matter of turning square brackets into
> parentheses:
>
> def print_numbers():
> ? ? tuples = ((n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6))
> ? ? filtered = ( cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?cube!=64 )
> ? ? for f in filtered:
> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> Replace (1,2,3,4,5,6) with xrange(100000000) and memory usage still
> stays constant.
>
> Though for this particular example, I prefer a strict looping solution
> akin to what Jonathan Gardner had upthread:
>
> for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6):
> ? ? square = n*n
> ? ? cube = n*n*n
> ? ? if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
> ? ? print cube
>
> > > In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> > > something like this:
>
> > > ? ?departments
> > > ? ?departments_in_new_york
> > > ? ?departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > > ? ?employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > > ? ?names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>
> I don't think the assertion that the names would be ridiculously long
> is accurate, either.
>
> Something like:
>
> departments = blah
> ny_depts = blah(departments)
> non_bonus_depts = blah(ny_depts)
> non_bonus_employees = blah(non_bonus_depts)
> employee_names = blah(non_bonus_employees)
>
> If the code is at all well-structured, it'll be just as obvious from
> the context that each list/generator/whatever is building from the
> previous one as it is in the anonymous block case.

I agree that the names don't have to be as ridiculously long as my
examples, but using intermediate locals forces you to come up with
consistent abbreviations between adjacent lines, which adds to the
maintenance burden.  When the requirements change so that bonuses
apply to NY and PA departments, you would have to change three places
in the code instead of one.

To the extent that each of your transformations were named functions,
you'd need to maintain the names there as well (something more
descriptive than "blah").




From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Feb 19 00:23:30 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:23:30 +1300
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <4b7c22c8$0$1651$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<eae285401002170344q724eecf9kaca550a089a91339@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b7c22c8$0$1651$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7u6kv0F8fiU1@mid.individual.net>

John Nagle wrote:

>    One way to implement locking is something like this:
> 
>    Mutable objects have a reference count field, a lock field,
> and an "owner" field.  Initially, the owner of an object is its thread.
> If an object's only reference is a field of a synchronized object, the
> owner is the synchronized object.

The trouble with that is that there will hardly ever be
"only one reference" to any object that you do anything
with, even just looking at it, because temporary references
come and go as the interpreter goes about its business.

A simple demonstration of this:

Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Apr  8 2007, 22:22:18)
[GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1809)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> foo = (1, 2, 3)
 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.getrefcount(foo)
2

Even though you might think that there is only
one reference to foo, the very act of passing it
as a parameter to getrefcount() causes another
reference to come into existence temporarily.

-- 
Greg


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Feb 19 00:26:52 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:26:52 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<96c65bac-2bc1-4ae0-8349-45ec0c3404d9@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x1vghkd7n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> writes:
>> http://haskell.org/ghc/docs/6.10.4/html/users_guide/syntax-extns.html...
>> might be of interest. ?Maybe Ruby and/or Python could grow something similar.
> Can you elaborate?

List comprehensions are a Python feature you're probably familiar with,
and I think Ruby has something like them too.  They originally came from
Haskell.  GHC (the main Haskell implementation) now supports an extended
list comprehension syntax with SQL-like features.  I haven't used it
much yet, but here's an example from a poker ranking program
(http://www.rubyquiz.com/quiz24.html) that I did as a Haskell exercise:

  let (winners:others) = 
        [zip c ls | ls <- lines cs
                , let {h = mkHand ls; c=classify h}
                , then group by c
                , then sortWith by Down c]

It's reasonably evocative and doing the same thing with the older
syntax would have been a big mess.  "Down" basically means sort
in reverse order.


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 00:35:48 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:35:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xocjlx4f6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <60ce8051-8bda-470b-8943-ce87dad9e8eb@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:58?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> >> But frankly, although there's no reason that you _have_ to name the
> >> content at each step, I find it a lot more readable if you do:
>
> >> def print_numbers():
> >> ? ? tuples = [(n*n, n*n*n) for n in (1,2,3,4,5,6)]
> >> ? ? filtered = [ cube for (square, cube) in tuples if square!=25 and
> >> cube!=64 ]
> >> ? ? for f in filtered:
> >> ? ? ? ? print f
>
> > The names you give to the intermediate results here are
> > terse--"tuples" and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> But that example makes tuples and filtered into completely expanded
> lists in memory. ?I don't know Ruby so I've been wondering whether the
> Ruby code would run as an iterator pipeline that uses constant memory.
>

Running the following code would probably answer your question.  At
least in the case of Array.map and Array.reject, under my version of
Ruby, each block transforms the entire array before passing control to
the next block.

    def print_numbers()
        [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
            puts 'first block', n
            [n * n, n * n * n]
        }.reject { |square, cube|
            puts 'reject', square
            square == 25 || cube == 64
        }.map { |square, cube|
            cube
        }.each { |cube|
            puts cube
        }
    end

    print_numbers()

But I'm running only version 1.8.7.  Version 1.9 of Ruby apparently
introduced something more akin to generators and Unix pipelines:

http://pragdave.blogs.pragprog.com/pragdave/2007/12/pipelines-using.html

I haven't tried them myself.




From kwmsmith at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 00:37:59 2010
From: kwmsmith at gmail.com (Kurt Smith)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:37:59 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c266a7931002182137r38cbd421y4d30a39a6e2e6786@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:49?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> wrote:
>> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > ? ? def print_numbers()
>> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
>> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
>> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
>> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
>> > ? ? ? ? }
>> > ? ? end
>>
>> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
>> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
>> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
>> not following Lisp in that regard.
>>
>> for n in range(1,6):
>> ? ? square = n*n
>> ? ? cube = n*n*n
>> ? ? if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
>> ? ? print cube
>
> There's definitely a cognitive dissonance between imperative
> programming and functional programming. ?It's hard for programmers
> used to programming in an imperative style to appreciate a functional
> approach, because functional solutions often read "upside down" in the
> actual source code and common algebraic notation:
>
> ? ?def compute_squares_and_cubes(lst):
> ? ? ? ?return [(n * n, n * n * n) for n in lst]
>
> ? ?def reject_bad_values(lst):
> ? ? ? ?return [(square, cube) for (square, cube) \
> ? ? ? ? ? ?in lst if not (square == 25 or cube == 64)]
>
> ? ?def cubes_only(lst):
> ? ? ? ?return [cube for square, cube in lst]
>
> ? ?def print_results(lst):
> ? ? ? ?# 1. compute_squares_and_cubes
> ? ? ? ?# 2. reject_bad_values
> ? ? ? ?# 3. take cubes_only
> ? ? ? ?# 4. print values
> ? ? ? ?for item in \
> ? ? ? ? ? ?cubes_only( # 3
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?reject_bad_values( # 2
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?compute_squares_and_cubes(lst))): # 1
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print item # 4
>
> You can, of course, restore the natural order of operations to read
> top-down with appropriate use of intermediate locals:
>
> ? ?def print_results(lst):
> ? ? ? ?lst2 = compute_squares_and_cubes(lst)
> ? ? ? ?lst3 = reject_bad_values(lst2)
> ? ? ? ?lst4 = cubes_only(lst3)
> ? ? ? ?for item in lst4:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print item
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

# sent the original to the wrong place -- resending to python-list.

Somewhat off topic, but only somewhat:  you could use coroutines to
get a pipeline effect.

#--------------8<-----------------------------
# Shamelessly lifted from David Beazley's
#  http://www.dabeaz.com/coroutines/

def coroutine(co):
   def _inner(*args, **kwargs):
       gen = co(*args, **kwargs)
       gen.next()
       return gen
   return _inner

def squares_and_cubes(lst, target):
   for n in lst:
       target.send((n * n, n * n * n))

@coroutine
def reject_bad_values(target):
   while True:
       square, cube = (yield)
       if not (square == 25 or cube == 64):
           target.send((square, cube))

@coroutine
def cubes_only(target):
   while True:
       square, cube = (yield)
       target.send(cube)

@coroutine
def print_results():
   while True:
       print (yield)

squares_and_cubes(range(10),
       reject_bad_values(
           cubes_only(
               print_results()
               )
           )
       )
#--------------8<-----------------------------


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 00:41:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 05:41:31 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2760.1266551381.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7e248b$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:48:21 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:

> Next week: Lesson 2 - Ad Hominem Attacks

I wouldn't pay any attention to Steve, all Stevens are notorious liars.

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 00:46:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 05:46:31 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7e25b7$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:35 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> The names you give to the intermediate results here are terse--"tuples"
> and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
> 
> In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> something like this:
> 
>    departments
>    departments_in_new_york
>    departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle

Those last two could be written more concisely as:

serfs_in_new_york
names_of_serfs_in_new_york_as_if_we_cared

But seriously... if you have a variable called "departments_in_new_york", 
presumably you also have variables called "departments_in_washington", 
"departments_in_los_angeles", "departments_in_houston", 
"departments_in_walla_walla", and so forth. If so, this is a good sign 
that you are doing it wrong and you need to rethink your algorithm.



-- 
Steven


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 00:50:58 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:50:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7dbc94$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2760.1266551381.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4b7e248b$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <322eb626-ef2a-4fc7-8472-850932868f7f@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:48:21 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
> > Next week: Lesson 2 - Ad Hominem Attacks
>
> I wouldn't pay any attention to Steve, all Stevens are notorious liars.
>
> --
> Steven

Especially when their last name starts with H.

Cheers,

Steve



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 00:52:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 05:52:03 GMT
Subject: How secure are temp files created via tempfile.TemporaryFile()?
References: <1266519267.4170.1360680003@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<4B7D95F7.9020906@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<1266523768.19867.1360705413@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<mailman.2766.1266557719.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7e2703$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:34:58 -0800, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:09:28 -0500, python at bdurham.com declaimed the
> following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> 2. As soon as my process terminates (voluntarily or involuntarily), the
>> temp file gets deleted.
>> 
> 	Which only means the directory entry for it is lost... depending 
on
> the OS, someone creating a new file in "w+" and performing a long seek
> just to write one byte, may now have all those disk sectors your temp
> file had been in -- and can read them at leisure.
> 
> 	Or some file recovery tools might make a file out of the 
sectors...
> 
> 	If you are really worried about the contents becoming visible 
after
> "deletion" you should probably run a wipe operation on the file (write
> random sequence over data; read/verify said random sequence; write new
> random sequence over file; read/verify this sequence; write 1s
> complement of sequence; read/verify that final sequence).


If that is your concern, then you shouldn't be using tempfile, you should 
be using permanent files and wiping them yourself.

I think the OP is more concerned about the sort of security flaw where 
you open a temporary file, and some hostile process hijacks it before 
you're done with it. But once you're done with the file, you probably no 
longer care about the contents.


-- 
Steven


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Feb 19 00:52:20 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:52:20 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7u6ml2Ffd8U1@mid.individual.net>

Steve Howell wrote:

> Python may not support the broadest notion of anonymous functions, but
> it definitely has anonymous blocks.  You can write this in Python:
> 
>     for i in range(10):
>         print i
>         print i * i
>         print i * i * i

There's a clear difference between this and a Ruby block,
however. A "block" in Ruby is implemented by passing a
callable object to a method. There is no callable object
corresponding to the body of a for-loop in Python.

The important thing about Ruby blocks is not that they're
anonymous, but that they're concrete objects that can
be manipulated.

The Ruby approach has the advantage of making it possible
to implement user-defined control structures without
requiring a macro facility. You can't do that in Python.

However, there's something that Python's iterator protocol
makes possible that you can't do with a block-passing
approach. You can have multiple iterators active at once,
and pull values from them as an when required in the
calling code. Ruby's version of the iterator protocol
can't handle that, because once an iterator is started
it retains control until it's finished.

Also, most people who advocate adding some form of
block-passing facility to Python don't seem to have
thought through what would happen if the block contains
any break, continue, return or yield statements.

This issue was looked into in some detail back when there
was consideration of implementing the with-statement
by passing the body as a function. Getting these
statements to behave intuitively inside the body
turned out to be a very thorny problem -- thorny enough
to cause the block-passing idea to be abandoned in
favour of the current implementation.

-- 
Greg


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 01:00:17 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 06:00:17 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like
	Python    to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<7u6ml2Ffd8U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4b7e28f0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:52:20 +1300, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> The Ruby approach has the advantage of making it possible to implement
> user-defined control structures without requiring a macro facility. You
> can't do that in Python.
[...] 
> Also, most people who advocate adding some form of block-passing
> facility to Python don't seem to have thought through what would happen
> if the block contains any break, continue, return or yield statements.

That is the only time I ever wanted blocks: I had a series of functions 
containing for loops that looked something vaguely like this:

for x in sequence:
    code_A
    try:
        something
    except some_exception:
        code_B

where code_B was different in each function, so I wanted to pull it out 
as a code block and do this:


def common_loop(x, block):
    code_A
    try:
        something
    except some_exception:
        block

for x in sequence:
    common_loop(x, block)


The problem was that the blocks contained a continue statement, so I was 
stymied.


-- 
Steven


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 01:07:23 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:07:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7e25b7$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d2a11f55-266c-469d-8d53-57fdcf15f8d0@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:46?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:57:35 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > The names you give to the intermediate results here are terse--"tuples"
> > and "filtered"--so your code reads nicely.
>
> > In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> > something like this:
>
> > ? ?departments
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york
> > ? ?departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> > ? ?names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>
> Those last two could be written more concisely as:
>
> serfs_in_new_york
> names_of_serfs_in_new_york_as_if_we_cared
>
> But seriously... if you have a variable called "departments_in_new_york",
> presumably you also have variables called "departments_in_washington",
> "departments_in_los_angeles", "departments_in_houston",
> "departments_in_walla_walla", and so forth. If so, this is a good sign
> that you are doing it wrong and you need to rethink your algorithm.
>

Sure, but it could also be that you're launching a feature that is
only temporarily limited to New York departments, and any investment
in coming up with names for the New York filter function or
intermediate local variables becomes pointless once you go national:

    # version 1
    emps = [
        ['Bob Rich', 'NY', 55],
        ['Alice Serf', 'NY', 30],
        ['Joe Peasant', 'MD', 12],
        ['Mary Pauper', 'CA', 13],
    ]

    emps.select { |name, state, salary|
        salary < 40
    }.select { |name, state, salary|
        # limit bonuses to NY for now...reqs
        # may change!
        state == 'NY'
    }.each { |name, state, salary|
        new_salary = salary * 1.1
        puts "#{name} gets a raise to #{new_salary}!"
    }

    # version 2
    emps = [
        ['Bob Rich', 'NY', 55],
        ['Alice Serf', 'NY', 30],
        ['Joe Peasant', 'MD', 12],
        ['Mary Pauper', 'CA', 13],
    ]

    emps.select { |name, state, salary|
        salary < 40
    }.each { |name, state, salary|
        new_salary = salary * 1.1
        puts "#{name} gets a raise to #{new_salary}!"
    }



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 01:15:20 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:20 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hlla9n$gbr$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 19:28 PM, Mel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:30:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
>>
>>>   >  If all you want is a generator that doesn't yield anything, then
>>>   >  surely there isn't any one-time processing and you don't need the
>>>   >  comment?
>>>
>>> Sure there is. Python doesn't know that nothing gets yielded until it
>>> hits the return statement before the yield. When it calls .next() on the
>>> iterator, the code elided by the comment executes, then the return is
>>> hit, a StopIteration exception is raised, and the iteration is complete.
>>
>> I don't understand why you care about having *any* code before the
>> StopIteration. That's like:
>>
>> def empty():
>>      for x in range(1000):
>>          pass # Spin wheels uselessly
>>      return
>>      yield
>>
>>
>> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?
>
> I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop like
>
> for it in list_of_iterables:
>      for x in it:
>          do_this_or_that (x)
>
> where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code into the
> process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.

Yes. That is exactly what the OP said in his original post:

"""
I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On occasion, 
I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really "generators" 
because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a generalized system.
"""

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 01:16:30 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:16:30 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hllabt$gbr$2@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-18 18:33 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that
>> executes some given side-effect-producing code then immediately raises
>> the StopIteration.
>
> Ah, hm. That's a rather perverse use case, but I'm sure the OP has their
> reasons.

Which he explained fairly clearly, I thought, in his original post.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 01:21:48 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 06:21:48 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:20 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

>>> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?
>>
>> I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop like
>>
>> for it in list_of_iterables:
>>      for x in it:
>>          do_this_or_that (x)
>>
>> where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code
>> into the process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.
> 
> Yes. That is exactly what the OP said in his original post:
> 
> """
> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
> "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
> generalized system. """


But he doesn't say anything about side-effects. If you're passing 
generators around, sometimes you want an empty generator, just as 
sometimes you want an empty string, or list, or whatever.



-- 
Steven


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 01:44:16 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:44:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:37?pm, Kurt Smith <kwmsm... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 2:49?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> > wrote:
> >> On Feb 18, 8:15?am, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > ? ? def print_numbers()
> >> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> >> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> >> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> >> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> >> > ? ? ? ? }
> >> > ? ? end
>
> >> If this style of programming were useful, we would all be writing Lisp
> >> today. As it turned out, Lisp is incredibly difficult to read and
> >> understand, even for experienced Lispers. I am pleased that Python is
> >> not following Lisp in that regard.
>
> >> for n in range(1,6):
> >> ? ? square = n*n
> >> ? ? cube = n*n*n
> >> ? ? if square == 25 or cube == 64: continue
> >> ? ? print cube
>
> > There's definitely a cognitive dissonance between imperative
> > programming and functional programming. ?It's hard for programmers
> > used to programming in an imperative style to appreciate a functional
> > approach, because functional solutions often read "upside down" in the
> > actual source code and common algebraic notation:
>
> > ? ?def compute_squares_and_cubes(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?return [(n * n, n * n * n) for n in lst]
>
> > ? ?def reject_bad_values(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?return [(square, cube) for (square, cube) \
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?in lst if not (square == 25 or cube == 64)]
>
> > ? ?def cubes_only(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?return [cube for square, cube in lst]
>
> > ? ?def print_results(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?# 1. compute_squares_and_cubes
> > ? ? ? ?# 2. reject_bad_values
> > ? ? ? ?# 3. take cubes_only
> > ? ? ? ?# 4. print values
> > ? ? ? ?for item in \
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?cubes_only( # 3
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?reject_bad_values( # 2
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?compute_squares_and_cubes(lst))): # 1
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?print item # 4
>
> > You can, of course, restore the natural order of operations to read
> > top-down with appropriate use of intermediate locals:
>
> > ? ?def print_results(lst):
> > ? ? ? ?lst2 = compute_squares_and_cubes(lst)
> > ? ? ? ?lst3 = reject_bad_values(lst2)
> > ? ? ? ?lst4 = cubes_only(lst3)
> > ? ? ? ?for item in lst4:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?print item
>
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> # sent the original to the wrong place -- resending to python-list.
>
> Somewhat off topic, but only somewhat: ?you could use coroutines to
> get a pipeline effect.
>
> #--------------8<-----------------------------
> # Shamelessly lifted from David Beazley's
> # ?http://www.dabeaz.com/coroutines/
>
> def coroutine(co):
> ? ?def _inner(*args, **kwargs):
> ? ? ? ?gen = co(*args, **kwargs)
> ? ? ? ?gen.next()
> ? ? ? ?return gen
> ? ?return _inner
>
> def squares_and_cubes(lst, target):
> ? ?for n in lst:
> ? ? ? ?target.send((n * n, n * n * n))
>
> @coroutine
> def reject_bad_values(target):
> ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ?square, cube = (yield)
> ? ? ? ?if not (square == 25 or cube == 64):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?target.send((square, cube))
>
> @coroutine
> def cubes_only(target):
> ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ?square, cube = (yield)
> ? ? ? ?target.send(cube)
>
> @coroutine
> def print_results():
> ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ?print (yield)
>
> squares_and_cubes(range(10),
> ? ? ? ?reject_bad_values(
> ? ? ? ? ? ?cubes_only(
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print_results()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ?)

Wow!  It took me a while to get my head around it, but that's pretty
cool.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 19 02:01:52 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:01:52 +1100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2769.1266560414.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ocjlaeu7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:

> On 2010-02-18 18:33 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  writes:
> >
> >> He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that
> >> executes some given side-effect-producing code then immediately
> >> raises the StopIteration.
> >
> > Ah, hm. That's a rather perverse use case, but I'm sure the OP has their
> > reasons.
>
> Which he explained fairly clearly, I thought, in his original post.

(The original post isn't available to me; the reference in your reply
isn't accessible AFAICT.)

In the part of the original that you quoted, he speaks only of empty
generators (easy and clean), not generators that exist only for the
purpose of side-effects without yielding any items.

It's that latter that I describe as perverse, and I would think it worth
some effort to determine if that can be avoided by a different approach.

-- 
 \        ?The problem with television is that the people must sit and |
  `\    keep their eyes glued on a screen: the average American family |
_o__)                 hasn't time for it.? ?_The New York Times_, 1939 |
Ben Finney


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 02:13:28 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:13:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<7u6ml2Ffd8U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <3a910818-6911-4c9f-bdf0-7fffc31b117f@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:52?pm, Gregory Ewing <greg.ew... at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
> Steve Howell wrote:
> > Python may not support the broadest notion of anonymous functions, but
> > it definitely has anonymous blocks. ?You can write this in Python:
>
> > ? ? for i in range(10):
> > ? ? ? ? print i
> > ? ? ? ? print i * i
> > ? ? ? ? print i * i * i
>
> There's a clear difference between this and a Ruby block,
> however. A "block" in Ruby is implemented by passing a
> callable object to a method. There is no callable object
> corresponding to the body of a for-loop in Python.
>
> The important thing about Ruby blocks is not that they're
> anonymous, but that they're concrete objects that can
> be manipulated.
>

Agreed.

> The Ruby approach has the advantage of making it possible
> to implement user-defined control structures without
> requiring a macro facility. You can't do that in Python.
>
> However, there's something that Python's iterator protocol
> makes possible that you can't do with a block-passing
> approach. You can have multiple iterators active at once,
> and pull values from them as an when required in the
> calling code. Ruby's version of the iterator protocol
> can't handle that, because once an iterator is started
> it retains control until it's finished.
>

Is this still true or Ruby today?

http://pragdave.blogs.pragprog.com/pragdave/2007/12/pipelines-using.html

> Also, most people who advocate adding some form of
> block-passing facility to Python don't seem to have
> thought through what would happen if the block contains
> any break, continue, return or yield statements.
>

For sure.  It's certainly not clear to me how Ruby handles all those
cases, although I am still quite new to Ruby, so it's possible that I
just haven't stumbled upon the best explanations yet.

> This issue was looked into in some detail back when there
> was consideration of implementing the with-statement
> by passing the body as a function. Getting these
> statements to behave intuitively inside the body
> turned out to be a very thorny problem -- thorny enough
> to cause the block-passing idea to be abandoned in
> favour of the current implementation.
>

I found these links in the archive...were these part of the discussion
you were referring to?

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-April/052907.html

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-April/053055.html

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-April/053123.html



From ken at picloud.com  Fri Feb 19 02:14:19 2010
From: ken at picloud.com (Ken Elkabany)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:14:19 -0800
Subject: ANN: PiCloud cloud library 1.8 release
Message-ID: <d5e947121002182314j2775a61cj7e9f03a3d5f59deb@mail.gmail.com>

PiCloud, a cloud-computing platform for the Python Programming Language, has
released version 1.8 of its client library, cloud. PiCloud enables Python
users to leverage the power of an on-demand, high performance, and auto
scaling compute cluster with as few as three lines of code! No server
management necessary. You can find out more here: http://www.picloud.com

What's New:
    * The client library is now open source with an LGPL license.
    * Users can choose to run their code across 2.5ghz nodes or 1ghz nodes
with a simple kwarg.
    * Users can now select to run their code in real-time, guaranteeing that
their processes start in under a second.
    * Drop-in replacement for multiprocessing.
    * Improved cluster workload distribution performance by 20%.
    * Improved efficiency of Python interpreter state extraction by the
client library.
    * Optimized for all Python packages in the Enthought Python
Distribution.
    * Bug fixes.
    * And much more!

Full service description:
PiCloud is a cloud-computing platform that integrates into the
Python Programming Language. It enables you to leverage the compute power
of Amazon Web Services without having to manage, maintain, or
configure virtual servers.

PiCloud integrates seamlessly into your existing code base through a custom
Python library, cloud. To offload the execution of a function to the cloud,
all you must do is pass your desired function into the cloud library.
PiCloud will then run the function on its high-performance and
automatically-scaling cluster. We quickly scale our server capacity to meet
your computational needs, and only charge you for the resources you actually
consume. Getting on the cloud has never been this easy!

PiCloud improves the full cycle of software development and deployment.
Functions that are run on PiCloud have their resource usage monitored,
performance analyzed, and errors traced; we further aggregate all your
functions to give you a bird's eye view of your service. Through these
introspective capabilities, PiCloud enables you to develop faster, easier,
and smarter.

Common use cases for our platform:
* Crawling the web
* Manipulating images and videos
* Generating charts and graphs
* Statistical analysis of data sets
* Real-time data processing

Cheers,

Ken Elkabany
PiCloud, Inc.
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From nobrowser at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 02:18:20 2010
From: nobrowser at gmail.com (nobrowser)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:18:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: with statement and standard library
Message-ID: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi.  The with statement is certainly nifty.  The trouble is, the
*only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
which I almost never use.  Yet there are many, many classes in the
library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
statement could be employed.  Start with the connection objects in
httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily.  Maybe it
is the case that some of these classes have with statement support
already but I don't know it?  If so, how can I know (without asking
here each time, LOL)?  If not, is there work being done on that?

I am interested in this question mostly in the context of Python 2.6.

Many thanks.


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 03:35:39 2010
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:35:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlka59$u9$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<c07e3c71002181444w3bdbd714kd62ef4e3625b66af@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2761.1266551705.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ab1b0fb1-b2b4-4c22-8714-be6f69482655@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 8:49?am, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Brendon Wickham wrote:
> > On 19 February 2010 08:07, Mark Lawrence <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:
> >>> Your question is borderline if not out of topic in this group. I will
> >>> make a few comments though.
> >> This might be a Python group, but threads often drift way off topic, which
> >> added to the language itself make this a great group to read. ?If you don't
> >> like the way a thread goes, you can always skip it.
>
> > Perhaps...but he answered the question very well and with great, IMO, patience.
>
> +1
> --
> Steve Holden ? ? ? ? ? +1 571 484 6266 ? +1 800 494 3119
> PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 ?http://us.pycon.org/
> Holden Web LLC ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://www.holdenweb.com/
> UPCOMING EVENTS: ? ? ? ?http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

Dear Group,
Thank you for taking your time to discuss the issue, esp. to Mohammad
for his great patience and solving each aspect in a great way.
That's I frequent this group and I just learn lot. If it is bit
diverted topic,sorry.
Wishing you Happy Day Ahead,
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 03:36:28 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:36:28 +0000
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <m2k4u9fwqb.fsf@googlemail.com>

Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:

> Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> What about
>>     foo = iter('')
>
> That doesn't return a generator.
>
>     >>> foo = iter('')
>     >>> foo
>     <listiterator object at 0xf7cd3ed0>
>
> Whether the OP needs to create a generator, or just any iterable type,
> isn't clear.

If it walks and quacks like a duck... Anyway it's not just an iterable
object, it's an iterator.  I can't really imagine that there would be
some code which would be happy with generators but not with iterators
(as long as you can't send anything to them, which is always the case
with an empty generator).

-- 
Arnaud


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 19 03:52:47 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:52:47 +1100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <m2k4u9fwqb.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <87k4u9a9pc.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel at googlemail.com> writes:

> Ben Finney <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> writes:
> > Whether the OP needs to create a generator, or just any iterable
> > type, isn't clear.
>
> If it walks and quacks like a duck... Anyway it's not just an iterable
> object, it's an iterator.  I can't really imagine that there would be
> some code which would be happy with generators but not with iterators
> (as long as you can't send anything to them, which is always the case
> with an empty generator).

I can't imagine that someone would want to create a generator that's
always empty, but has some side-effect that is the *real* purpose for
using the generator.

Clearly, none of us should let our limited imaginations be the guide to
what people actually want to do.

-- 
 \          ?Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; |
  `\    those in philosophy only ridiculous.? ?David Hume, _A Treatise |
_o__)                                           of Human Nature_, 1739 |
Ben Finney


From sschedule at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 03:54:37 2010
From: sschedule at gmail.com (Schedule)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:54:37 +0100
Subject: Submit HTTP GET data from XP PC to PHP on web server.
Message-ID: <ec7e197b1002190054y1a72056bj52f26166e6b511a7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone

I haeve tried to understand the capabilities of python in web development.
Have gone throuhg forums and online tutorials. Nevertheless I am not able to
find any topic which can give me some insite along with basic examples of
how to send http get data from an xp mashine using python code to php on web
server.

I have some parameters to collect from windows mashine via http get and
collect them on web server using php.

Any hint how to begin would be appreciated.
-------------- next part --------------
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 19 04:23:53 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:23:53 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7e5898$0$12109$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> 
(snip)

Sorry, no time to get into details now - but I can at least provide a 
couple hints.

The first point is that, to override a method on an _instance_, you have 
to provide a method object, not a plain function - remember that the 
descriptor protocol is only invoked on _class_ attributes, not on 
instance attributes.

class Foo(object):
   def bar(self):
       print "the original bar"

def mybar(self):
    print "mybar"

 >>> f = Foo()
 >>> f.bar = mybar
 >>> f.bar()

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "/tmp/python-1287O_i.py", line 32, in <module>
     f.bar()
TypeError: mybar() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

 >>> type(f.bar)
<type 'function'>
 >>> f.bar is mybar
True
 >>> f.bar(f)
mybar


As you see, "bar" is here resolved as an ordinary instance attribute - 
so here it evals to the "mybar" function object. If you want it to be a 
method object, you do have to invoke the descriptor protocol manually:

 >>> f.bar = mybar.__get__(f, type(f))
 >>> f.bar
<bound method Foo.mybar of <__main__.Foo object at 0xb7e16b0c>>
 >>> f.bar()
mybar

Or alternatively, you can use the types module:
 >>> import types
 >>> f.bar = types.MethodType(mybar, f, type(f))
 >>> f.bar
<bound method Foo.mybar of <__main__.Foo object at 0xb7e16b0c>>
 >>> f.bar()
mybar


Second point is that the descriptor protocol is invoked on each and 
every lookup. So when it comes to function class attributes, you get a 
new method object each time:

 >>> f = Foo()
 >>> m1 = f.bar
 >>> m1
<bound method Foo.bar of <__main__.Foo object at 0xb7cb522c>>
 >>> m2 = f.bar
 >>> m2
<bound method Foo.bar of <__main__.Foo object at 0xb7cb522c>>
 >>> id(m1)
3084861188L
 >>> id(m2)
3083656564L
 >>> m1 is m2
False
 >>>

I think this should help you understand why your code doesn't work as 
you assumed it would !-)


PS : as a side note, a common optimization trick is to "short-circuit" 
the whole lookup / descriptor mechanism when you have to call the same 
method of the same object in a loop:

l = []
append = l.append
for i in xrange(100):
    append(i)
print l

HTH



From snakylove at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 04:44:16 2010
From: snakylove at googlemail.com (Snaky Love)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:44:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to use AWS/PAA nowadays? PyAWS / pyamazon outdated?
References: <555ef5e9-dc90-494d-affc-a78389f6922f@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <74a987e8-2fe1-4109-995f-a0470a2033d7@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

wow, for some strange reason I did not find this with my first search
yesterday:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-amazon-product-api/0.2.2

I will try this.

sometime I wish all the old stuff would disappear from the internet.
if somebody is looking for a cool startup idea: what about some
website overlay that says "hey, dude, this stuff is old, go here, here
is the new and improved thing!" :)

thanks for your attention.


From anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 05:01:53 2010
From: anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com (Anh Hai Trinh)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:01:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 1:44?pm, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > def coroutine(co):
> > ? ?def _inner(*args, **kwargs):
> > ? ? ? ?gen = co(*args, **kwargs)
> > ? ? ? ?gen.next()
> > ? ? ? ?return gen
> > ? ?return _inner
>
> > def squares_and_cubes(lst, target):
> > ? ?for n in lst:
> > ? ? ? ?target.send((n * n, n * n * n))
>
> > @coroutine
> > def reject_bad_values(target):
> > ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ?square, cube = (yield)
> > ? ? ? ?if not (square == 25 or cube == 64):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?target.send((square, cube))
>
> > @coroutine
> > def cubes_only(target):
> > ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ?square, cube = (yield)
> > ? ? ? ?target.send(cube)
>
> > @coroutine
> > def print_results():
> > ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ?print (yield)
>
> > squares_and_cubes(range(10),
> > ? ? ? ?reject_bad_values(
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?cubes_only(
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print_results()
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> > ? ? ? ?)
>
> Wow! ?It took me a while to get my head around it, but that's pretty
> cool.


This pipeline idea has actually been implemented further, see <http://
blog.onideas.ws/stream.py>.

  from stream import map, filter, cut
  range(10) >> map(lambda x: [x**2, x**3]) >> filter(lambda t: t[0]!
=25 and t[1]!=64) >> cut[1] >> list
  [0, 1, 8, 27, 216, 343, 512, 729]


--
aht


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Fri Feb 19 05:30:40 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:30:40 +0100
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <039FC570-3380-4415-B793-C637805DAEF0@roalddevries.nl>

On Feb 18, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov  
> <anfedorov at gmail.com>wrote:
>> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the  
>> +, -, <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their  
>> operands. Also, that == should be commutative and transitive, that  
>> > and < should be transitive, and anti-commutative.
>>
>> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from  
>> the mathematical meanings?
>
> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere,  
> nor assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the  
> operators doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not  
> enforce anything for these methods.

Still, it's clear that (for example) '==' is not just a normal  
function call. Look at this example (in ipython):

 >>> False == False == False
True
 >>> True == False == False
False
 >>> (True == False) == False
True

Anybody knows how why this is so?





From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 19 05:39:59 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 02:39:59 -0800
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
In-Reply-To: <039FC570-3380-4415-B793-C637805DAEF0@roalddevries.nl>
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<039FC570-3380-4415-B793-C637805DAEF0@roalddevries.nl>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002190239x13f3f051lb69fe674a457aca8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:30 AM, Roald de Vries <rdv at roalddevries.nl> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov
>> <anfedorov at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the +, -,
>>> <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their operands. Also,
>>> that == should be commutative and transitive, that > and < should be
>>> transitive, and anti-commutative.
>>>
>>> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from the
>>> mathematical meanings?
>>
>> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere, nor
>> assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the operators
>> doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not enforce anything for
>> these methods.
>
> Still, it's clear that (for example) '==' is not just a normal function
> call. Look at this example (in ipython):
>
>>>> False == False == False
> True
>>>> True == False == False
> False
>>>> (True == False) == False
> True
>
> Anybody knows how why this is so?

Python is smart enough to recognize chained comparisons and do The
Right Thing (tm).
`X == Y == Z` is equivalent to `X == Y and Y == Z`. Same goes for the
other comparison operators besides == and also possibly for longer
chains.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb 19 06:20:08 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:20:08 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
Message-ID: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>

I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into 
executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to 
snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not 
snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb 19 06:30:15 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:30:15 +0100
Subject: Constraints on __sub__, __eq__, etc.
References: <7659cab31002180819y643fd2e4k82952fb49a764582@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c21002180828r3774218ehacb12300562cf2c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2772.1266575455.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hllsno$k62$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Roald de Vries wrote:

> On Feb 18, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Andrey Fedorov
>> <anfedorov at gmail.com>wrote:
>>> It seems intuitive to me that the magic methods for overriding the
>>> +, -, <, ==, >, etc. operators should have no sideffects on their
>>> operands. Also, that == should be commutative and transitive, that
>>> > and < should be transitive, and anti-commutative.
>>>
>>> Is this intuition written up in a PEP, or assumed to follow from
>>> the mathematical meanings?
>>
>> It may be intuitive to you, but its not true, written down anywhere,
>> nor assumed by the language, and the mathematical meaning of the
>> operators doesn't matter to Python. Python purposefully does not
>> enforce anything for these methods.
> 
> Still, it's clear that (for example) '==' is not just a normal
> function call. Look at this example (in ipython):
> 
>  >>> False == False == False
> True
>  >>> True == False == False
> False
>  >>> (True == False) == False
> True
> 
> Anybody knows how why this is so?

As Chris said

expr1 <op1> expr2 <op2> expr3 <op3> ...

is resolved as 

(expr1 <op1> expr2) and (expr2 <op2> expr3) and (expr3 <op3> ...

where each exprN is evaluated just once.


For this to become the obvious way you have to look at interval checks like

a < b < c

Peter


From sarosh.nust at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 19 06:38:22 2010
From: sarosh.nust at hotmail.com (sarosh)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 03:38:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to do filetransfer using usrp.
Message-ID: <27652452.post@talk.nabble.com>


how to do filetransfer using usrp.
can i make lan interface between two computers connected to usrp each and
then transfer files (images/video) between them?
how to transfer files?
is there any example of such kind in gnuradio?

sarosh
-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/how-to-do-filetransfer-using-usrp.-tp27652452p27652452.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 07:25:14 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 04:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: with statement and standard library
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a6421e4e-c75a-4e84-a471-f4ad042e870e@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

nobrowser <nobrow... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yet there are many, many classes in the
> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
> statement could be employed. ?Start with the connection objects in
> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily. ?Maybe it
> is the case that some of these classes have with statement support
> already but I don't know it? ?If so, how can I know (without asking
> here each time, LOL)? ?If not, is there work being done on that?

If an object has __enter__ and __exit__ methods, it should work as a
context manager.

If you do find any such classes, submitting doc bugs or patches would
be really handy.

However, I'm not sure if there was any attempt to retrofit the stdlib
with context manager supports, so if you do come up with more elegant
approaches, please contribute them, we'll all thank you :)


From andreengels at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 08:04:06 2010
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:04:06 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into
> executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to
> snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not
> snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?

No idea whether it has to do with your problem, but if it's executable
in Windows, its name is snowball.exe, not snowball.

-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 19 09:19:06 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:19:06 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>

Andre Engels wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into
>> executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to
>> snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not
>> snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?
> 
> No idea whether it has to do with your problem, but if it's executable
> in Windows, its name is snowball.exe, not snowball.
> 

Not necessarily, it's perfectly possible to setup a Python script to run 
on Windows using file associations in the same way that you can run a 
command (.bat) file.  If the OP types the command "ASSOC .py" without 
the quotes at the command prompt, the response .py=Python.File tells you
that this association has been setup.

HTH.

Mark Lawrence.



From andreengels at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:33:59 2010
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:33:59 +0100
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Andre Engels wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into
>>> executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to
>>> snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not
>>> snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?
>>
>> No idea whether it has to do with your problem, but if it's executable
>> in Windows, its name is snowball.exe, not snowball.
>>
>
> Not necessarily, it's perfectly possible to setup a Python script to run on
> Windows using file associations in the same way that you can run a command
> (.bat) file. ?If the OP types the command "ASSOC .py" without the quotes at
> the command prompt, the response .py=Python.File tells you
> that this association has been setup.

And how does that invalidate what I wrote? One cannot associate the
empty extension, so if "snowball" runs a program, that's the program
in the file "snowball.exe" not the program in the file "snowball" that
has its extension associated to something - it has no extension, so
its extension cannot be associated.

-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:39:04 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:39:04 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <4b7dba1e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7dba1e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hlm7o7$a60$1@ger.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:28:44 +0100, mk wrote:
> 
>>      nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__
> 
> I should point out that leading-and-trailing-double-underscore names are 
> reserved for use by the language.

Right... I completely missed that. I will try to change the habit.

I am under impression that a function with no underscore in name is 
meant to be called "publicly" on instance, like Foo().nostat, a function 
with one underscore (and no trailing underscores) is meant to be like 
"it's mostly intended for internal use, but you can still call it", 
somewhat like "protected" in C++, and a function with two leading 
underscores (and no trailing underscores) is meant as completely 
internal to the class, not meant to be called by outsiders, somewhat 
like "private" in C++ (I abstract from obvious point in C++ that 
semantics of those keywords is enforced by a compiler in C++).

Is that correct?

Regards,
mk




From justin.mailinglists at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:40:19 2010
From: justin.mailinglists at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:40:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: how to do filetransfer using usrp.
References: <mailman.2774.1266579506.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <83b8c073-7b75-4746-9beb-cea0a5f11eb8@k6g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 7:38?pm, sarosh <sarosh.n... at hotmail.com> wrote:
> how to do filetransfer using usrp.
> can i make lan interface between two computers connected to usrp each and
> then transfer files (images/video) between them?
> how to transfer files?
> is there any example of such kind in gnuradio?
>
> sarosh

am not sure what USRP is but a quick google found
http://packages.debian.org/sid/python-usrp


From daniele.gondoni at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:41:13 2010
From: daniele.gondoni at gmail.com (Daniele Gondoni)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:41:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
References: <fbe2e2101002181016i4a80ebtc387459d74d6afa9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7f014ea61002181044u3391fef9n75fb9f45bec20500@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2733.1266519548.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a6777ece-9b45-4423-8e77-cfa743e67134@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<ab331e39-bf23-4f62-a092-960dd07818b0@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b7da919$0$22938$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <0710f64c-7c38-47fc-85d1-0da13fe62bb8@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 9:53?pm, Irmen de Jong <ir... at -NOSPAM-xs4all.nl> wrote:
> On 2/18/10 9:45 PM, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>
> > On Feb 18, 5:21 pm, Daniele Gondoni<daniele.gond... at gmail.com> ?wrote:
> >> On 18 Feb, 19:58, "sstein... at gmail.com"<sstein... at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>
> >>> Down from here (NH, US).
>
> >>> S
>
> >>> On Feb 18, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Chris Colbert wrote:
>
> >> Unreacheable from Italy as well...
>
> > Same here (Buenos Aires, Argentina).
>
> It ain't down till Netcraft confirms it!
>
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pyjs.org
>
> Oh wait...
>
> -irmen

my goodness! it seems only the domain has expired
the site's still there, just add

216.34.181.97 pyjs.org

to your hosts file and BANG


From goon12 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:43:52 2010
From: goon12 at gmail.com (Joe Riopel)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:43:52 -0500
Subject: Submit HTTP GET data from XP PC to PHP on web server.
In-Reply-To: <ec7e197b1002190054y1a72056bj52f26166e6b511a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ec7e197b1002190054y1a72056bj52f26166e6b511a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a2ccd191002190643n18c990a5qc1333a362dcc4484@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:54 AM, Schedule <sschedule at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone
>
> I haeve tried to understand the capabilities of python in web development.
> Have gone throuhg forums and online tutorials. Nevertheless I am not able to
> find any topic which can give me some insite along with basic examples of
> how to send http get data from an xp mashine using python code to php on web
> server.

Have a look at urllib2 (urllib2.Request) and maybe mechanize
(http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize/).


From funthyme at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:43:56 2010
From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:43:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
Message-ID: <6a8e506c-63df-482b-a39d-148e6217ba2c@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

It appears that, in trying to cut down spm, somone chahnged a DNS
entry and screwed it up : it shouldbe back before long.

John
--


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 09:45:12 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:45:12 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <4B7DD3D6.9030403@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B7DD3D6.9030403@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <hlm83n$bgi$1@ger.gmane.org>

John Posner wrote:
>> a
>> False
>>
>> I expected to see 'nostatget' output: nostat.__get__ = nostatget
>> obviously failed to replace this function's __get__ method.
> 
> I don't quite understand the above sentence, so I'm assuming that you 
> wanted the final "is" test to be "True" instead of "False".

No. I should have described my goal in plain English in first place.

I wanted to replace nostat function's __get__ descriptor with a function 
that would allow me to peek inside it (i.e. into __get__ descriptor 
arguments) and that would then call original nostat.__get__.

So no, I expected it to be false, that is, I expected to replace 
original descriptor with a "custom" descriptor. I just wondered why this 
custom "nostatget" descriptor didn't get called even though the new 
nostat.__get__ didn't seem to be its old self (so quite likely it was 
the new, nostatget, descriptor).

But Bruno pointed out that I need instancemethod for that, not plain 
function.

Regards,
mk



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 19 10:01:53 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:01:53 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2778.1266590310.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7dba1e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2778.1266590310.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ea7ce$0$15611$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:28:44 +0100, mk wrote:
>>
>>>      nostat.__orig_get__ = nostat.__get__
>>
>> I should point out that leading-and-trailing-double-underscore names 
>> are reserved for use by the language.
> 
> Right... I completely missed that. I will try to change the habit.
> 
> I am under impression that a function with no underscore in name is 
> meant to be called "publicly" on instance, like Foo().nostat, a function 
> with one underscore (and no trailing underscores) is meant to be like 
> "it's mostly intended for internal use, but you can still call it", 
> somewhat like "protected" in C++, and a function with two leading 
> underscores (and no trailing underscores) is meant as completely 
> internal to the class, not meant to be called by outsiders, somewhat 
> like "private" in C++ (I abstract from obvious point in C++ that 
> semantics of those keywords is enforced by a compiler in C++).
> 
> Is that correct?

Mostly, yes.

- s/function/whatever/ : these rules apply to all names

- the single leading underscore denote implementation, IOW : you should 
not use it, unless you have a pretty good reason to do so AND you take 
full responsability for what may happens

- the double leading underscore is in fact mostly to protect your 
attribute from accidental overloading. It triggers a (simple) 
name-mangling operation that turns "__yourname" into 
"_Yourclassname__yourname". FWIW, this is something I must have a use 
for at most once a year, and even then most of the times because I'm a 
bit of a control freak sometimes.



From pedro.al at fenhi.uh.cu  Fri Feb 19 10:08:06 2010
From: pedro.al at fenhi.uh.cu (Yasser Almeida =?iso-8859-1?b?SGVybuFuZGV6?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:08:06 -0500
Subject: Attributes in privates methods
Message-ID: <20100219100806.gm1qqhaisk48ookw@correo.fenhi.uh.cu>

Hi all.

I have a class with the attribute 'log_file', opened out of the class:
class ProteinCluster:
    def __init__(self,cluster_name,log_file):
       ...
       self.log_file = log_file
       ...
Then i have a private method which write in the log_file:
    def _read_structure(self, pdb_code):
       ...
       ...
       self.log_file.write('blablabla')
       ...
       ...
When i run the script, it raises the error:
AttributeError: ProteinCluster instance has no attribute 'log_file'

My question is, the class attributes are valids in private methods,  
like in publics methods?

Thanks


-- 
Yasser Almeida Hern?ndez, BSc
Center of Molecular Inmunology (CIM)
Nanobiology Group
P.O.Box 16040, Havana, Cuba
Phone: (537) 214-3178
almeida at cim.sld.cu

----------------------------------------------------------------
Correo FENHI





From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 19 10:16:20 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:16:20 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlm9vh$ifg$1@ger.gmane.org>

Andre Engels wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Andre Engels wrote:
>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win XP into
>>>> executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like snowball.py to
>>>> snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds snowball.py but not
>>>> snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes. What's up with that?
>>> No idea whether it has to do with your problem, but if it's executable
>>> in Windows, its name is snowball.exe, not snowball.
>>>
>> Not necessarily, it's perfectly possible to setup a Python script to run on
>> Windows using file associations in the same way that you can run a command
>> (.bat) file.  If the OP types the command "ASSOC .py" without the quotes at
>> the command prompt, the response .py=Python.File tells you
>> that this association has been setup.
> 
> And how does that invalidate what I wrote? One cannot associate the
> empty extension, so if "snowball" runs a program, that's the program
> in the file "snowball.exe" not the program in the file "snowball" that
> has its extension associated to something - it has no extension, so
> its extension cannot be associated.
> 

Darn, only half the story, sorry.  When the OP types snowball something 
executes.  The command SET PATHEXT will show what file extensions are 
set to run files.  On my system the response is :-

c:\Users\Mark\Java2Python>set pathext
PATHEXT=.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH;.MSC;.PY

So snowball with any one of the 12 extensions listed above would run on 
my system without actually typing the extension.  I'm just  guessing but 
has an executable been created but in another directory, so snowball.py 
is running?  Perhaps the best bet is simply to search appropriate 
directories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*.  Then the OP 
would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.

HTH.

Mark Lawrence



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 19 10:17:30 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:17:30 +0100
Subject: Why this doesn't work?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2780.1266590681.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2726.1266514083.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4B7DD3D6.9030403@optimum.net>
	<mailman.2780.1266590681.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7eab77$0$31722$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

mk a ?crit :
> John Posner wrote:
>>> a
>>> False
>>>
>>> I expected to see 'nostatget' output: nostat.__get__ = nostatget
>>> obviously failed to replace this function's __get__ method.
>>
>> I don't quite understand the above sentence, so I'm assuming that you 
>> wanted the final "is" test to be "True" instead of "False".
> 
> No. I should have described my goal in plain English in first place.
> 
> I wanted to replace nostat function's __get__ descriptor

A "descriptor" (shortcut for "object implementing the descriptor 
protocol) is an object that have a __get__ method - not the __get__ 
method itself. A function is a descriptor. The __get__ method of the 
function type is a method, and methods are not descriptors.

> with a function 
> that would allow me to peek inside it (i.e. into __get__ descriptor 
> arguments)

=>  __get__(self, instance, cls=None)

When called as a result of a look up on an instance f of class Foo, 
nostat.__get__ will get (nostat, f, Foo) as args.

> So no, I expected it to be false, that is, I expected to replace 
> original descriptor with a "custom" descriptor.

s/descriptor/__get__/

Anyway: these types (function, method etc) are implemented in (higly 
optimized) C, and with a lot of restriction for both performance and 
sanity reasons. It's a case of practicality beats purity.

Another - perhaps more rewarding - exercise might be to implement a 
custom callable type that implements the descriptor protocol the same 
way the function do.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 19 10:21:51 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:21:51 +0100
Subject: Attributes in privates methods
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2781.1266592512.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2781.1266592512.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7EAC8F.3040001@nospam.web.de>

Am 19.02.10 16:08, schrieb Yasser Almeida Hern?ndez:
> Hi all.
>
> I have a class with the attribute 'log_file', opened out of the class:
> class ProteinCluster:
> def __init__(self,cluster_name,log_file):
> ...
> self.log_file = log_file
> ...
> Then i have a private method which write in the log_file:
> def _read_structure(self, pdb_code):
> ...
> ...
> self.log_file.write('blablabla')
> ...
> ...
> When i run the script, it raises the error:
> AttributeError: ProteinCluster instance has no attribute 'log_file'
>
> My question is, the class attributes are valids in private methods, like
> in publics methods?

There is no semantical difference there, you must have some other error.

Diez


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Fri Feb 19 10:50:41 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:50:41 +0100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <950E783F-50F5-42B9-845F-0D85B927B3E8@roalddevries.nl>

> This pipeline idea has actually been implemented further, see <http://
> blog.onideas.ws/stream.py>.
>
> from stream import map, filter, cut
> range(10) >> map(lambda x: [x**2, x**3]) >> filter(lambda t: t[0]!
> =25 and t[1]!=64) >> cut[1] >> list
> [0, 1, 8, 27, 216, 343, 512, 729]

Wow, cool!

Just to show that you can easily add the iterator.map(f).blabla-syntax  
to Python:

     from __future__ import print_function

     class rubified(list):
         map    = lambda self, f: rubified(map(f, self))
         filter = lambda self, f: rubified(filter(f, self))
         reject = lambda self, f: rubified(filter(lambda x: not f(x),  
self))
         # each = lambda self, f: rubified(reduce(lambda x, y:  
print(y), self, None))
         def each(self, f):
             for x in self: f(x)

         def __new__(cls, value):
             return list.__new__(cls, value)

     def print_numbers():
         rubified([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]).map(lambda n:
             [n * n, n * n * n]).reject(lambda (square, cube):
             square == 25 or cube == 64).map(lambda (square, cube):
             cube).each(lambda n:
             print(n))





From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 10:51:54 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:51:54 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hlmc2p$pm8$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-19 00:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:20 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
>
>>>> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?
>>>
>>> I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop like
>>>
>>> for it in list_of_iterables:
>>>       for x in it:
>>>           do_this_or_that (x)
>>>
>>> where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code
>>> into the process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.
>>
>> Yes. That is exactly what the OP said in his original post:
>>
>> """
>> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
>> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
>> "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
>> generalized system. """
>
> But he doesn't say anything about side-effects.

"I have some generators *that do stuff*, then start yielding results." [emphasis 
mine]. Then he gives an example of a generator that does side-effect stuff and 
returning before yielding anything.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From wimmersimon at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 10:52:59 2010
From: wimmersimon at googlemail.com (SiWi)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
Message-ID: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Hello community,
I googled for an answer of the following problem, but I couldn't find
anything.
I've got a netbook and my fast workstation compter, which I usually
use for developing.
But I'd also like to take my netbook around the house and to develop
Python programms on it.
The problem is that naturally a netbook is not the fastest computer
you could find.

So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
netbook.

Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:00:45 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:00:45 -0600
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <87ocjlaeu7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <7a9c25c21002181425wa4cab4aq1c230b40f69b89ca@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2749.1266533799.28905.python-list@python.org>	<877hqaazmb.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<0e36c303-2b70-41e2-9773-42be3076ff18@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<871vgiawub.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<mailman.2769.1266560414.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87ocjlaeu7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlmcjd$s4s$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-19 01:01 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  writes:
>
>> On 2010-02-18 18:33 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
>>> Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>   writes:
>>>
>>>> He doesn't want *any* empty generator. He wants an iterator that
>>>> executes some given side-effect-producing code then immediately
>>>> raises the StopIteration.
>>>
>>> Ah, hm. That's a rather perverse use case, but I'm sure the OP has their
>>> reasons.
>>
>> Which he explained fairly clearly, I thought, in his original post.
>
> (The original post isn't available to me; the reference in your reply
> isn't accessible AFAICT.)

You responded to my post which quoted his in full.

> In the part of the original that you quoted, he speaks only of empty
> generators (easy and clean), not generators that exist only for the
> purpose of side-effects without yielding any items.

"""
I have some generators *that do stuff*, then start yielding results. On
occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only really
"generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as part of a
generalized system.

...

      def gen():
          # *do my one-time processing here*

          return
          yield
"""
[emphasis mine]

Seriously, it's all there. I'm rather appalled at the lack of reading 
comprehension demonstrated in this thread.

> It's that latter that I describe as perverse, and I would think it worth
> some effort to determine if that can be avoided by a different approach.

By rearchitecting the system to accept things that aren't iterators, yes. But he 
may not be in control of that system. And it may not make things cleaner to do 
so if he wants to use itertools to compose the iterables, whether they are for 
side effects or not, in various ways.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From btaylordesign at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:05:10 2010
From: btaylordesign at gmail.com (Brandon)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:05:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about getmtime
Message-ID: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
os.path.getmtime(path)?

Thank you,
Brandon


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:06:10 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:06:10 -0600
Subject: with statement and standard library
In-Reply-To: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlmcth$t93$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-19 01:18 AM, nobrowser wrote:
> Hi.  The with statement is certainly nifty.  The trouble is, the
> *only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
> classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
> which I almost never use.  Yet there are many, many classes in the
> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
> statement could be employed.  Start with the connection objects in
> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily.

Yup. I believe that the devs wanted to adopt the new feature carefully and 
deliberately, though. They introduced it for file objects and locks first 
because those were the use cases that had been thoroughly explored in the 
development of the PEP. They held back from making every reasonable object a 
context manager in order to see how the new feature worked in the real world 
with those two use cases first.

Now is probably a good time to start adding more sensible context managers to 
objects. I don't think there is any particular organized effort to do so, though.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From darcy at druid.net  Fri Feb 19 11:10:21 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:10:21 -0500
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100219111021.42fddabb.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
SiWi <wimmersimon at googlemail.com> wrote:
> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> netbook.
> 
> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?

Yes but it isn't really a Python question.  I suggest Google but you
haven't given us enough information, particularly what OSs you are
running.  If it was me I would simply use the netbook as a thin client
for programs that I am writing and running on the main server.  In my
case a simple xterm would do the job since vi is my IDE and bash is my
runtime environment.  If you are using a GUI IDE you may be able to run
the GUI app on the server with the display on the netbook.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:14:43 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:14:43 +0100
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002190814x65804212ic0bd111972ac1aa0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:52 PM, SiWi <wimmersimon at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello community,
> I googled for an answer of the following problem, but I couldn't find
> anything.
> I've got a netbook and my fast workstation compter, which I usually
> use for developing.
> But I'd also like to take my netbook around the house and to develop
> Python programms on it.
> The problem is that naturally a netbook is not the fastest computer
> you could find.
>
> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> netbook.
>
> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

I recommend setting up a SSH server on your stationary and run
something like emacs. It's how I'm doing it anyway.


From bornstub at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:16:09 2010
From: bornstub at gmail.com (Victor Lin)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:16:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A tool for find dependencies relationships behind Python projects
Message-ID: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I just wrote a tool for drawing dependencies relationships diagram of
Python project on Pypi.  Here is the home page of the tool:

http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/

Some examples:
Sprox:
http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/sprox_dot.png

TurboGears2:
http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/tg2_dot.png

Hope this could be helpful :P

Regards.
Victor Lin.


From george.trojan at noaa.gov  Fri Feb 19 11:25:34 2010
From: george.trojan at noaa.gov (George Trojan)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:25:34 +0000
Subject: a question on building MySQL-python
Message-ID: <hlme1u$h57$1@news.nems.noaa.gov>

During installation of MySQL-python-1.2.3c1 I encountered the following 
error:

$ python2.6 setup.py build
running build
running build_py
copying MySQLdb/release.py -> build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/MySQLdb
running build_ext
building '_mysql' extension
creating build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6
gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -fwrapv -O3 -Wall 
-Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -Dversion_info=(1,2,3,'gamma',1) 
-D__version__=1.2.3c1 -I/usr/include/mysql 
-I/usr/local/Python-2.6.3/include/python2.6 -c _mysql.c -o 
build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/_mysql.o -g -pipe -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 
-fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -m64 
-D_GNU_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE 
-fno-strict-aliasing -fwrapv
gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.6/_mysql.o 
-L/usr/lib64/mysql -L/usr/lib64 -L. -lmysqlclient_r -lz -lpthread 
-lcrypt -lnsl -lm -lpthread -lssl -lcrypto -lpython2.6 -o 
build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.6/_mysql.so
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.6
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

Linker could not find libpython2.6.so. Note that the compiler *did* find 
Python include file: -I/usr/local/Python-2.6.3/include/python2.6.
I am running CentOS5.3. Python 2.6 was configured as follows:

$ TARGET=/usr/local/Python-2.6.3
$ export LDFLAGS=-Wl,-rpath,$TARGET/lib
$ ./configure --prefix=$TARGET \
         --with-cxx=g++ --with-threads --enable-shared

to avoid messing with LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
I managed to complete the installation by pasting the above link command 
  and adding proper -L option, but I would like to know what would be 
the proper fix.

George


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:26:20 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:26:20 +0100
Subject: Question about getmtime
In-Reply-To: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002190826x380e2d29k585b127432001c34@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Brandon <btaylordesign at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
> os.path.getmtime(path)?
>
> Thank you,
> Brandon

Wouldn't it be easier to make a script and see for yourself then to
write a mail about it?


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Feb 19 11:26:53 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:26:53 +0100
Subject: Attributes in privates methods
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2781.1266592512.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2781.1266592512.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ebbba$0$10159$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Yasser Almeida Hern?ndez a ?crit :
> Hi all.
> 
> I have a class with the attribute 'log_file', opened out of the class:
> class ProteinCluster:
>    def __init__(self,cluster_name,log_file):
>       ...
>       self.log_file = log_file
>       ...
> Then i have a private method which write in the log_file:
>    def _read_structure(self, pdb_code):
>       ...
>       ...
>       self.log_file.write('blablabla')
>       ...
>       ...
> When i run the script, it raises the error:
> AttributeError: ProteinCluster instance has no attribute 'log_file'
> 
> My question is, the class attributes are valids in private methods, like 
> in publics methods?

Diez already answered - the above code seems correct, so the source of 
your problem is elsewhere.

For the record, in your code, log_file is an instance attribute - a 
'class attribute' is an attribute that is defined on the class object 
itself, and is shared by all instances of the class.

Also, Python has no notion of "public" or "private" - at least at the 
language level. The '_name' convention is just, well, a naming convention.

This wont solve your problem - sorry, not much we can do here - but at 
least it will help wrt/ mutual understanding !-)


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:28:15 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:28:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cfe4b91-ca53-427e-8c74-8eb7e859f01b@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Feb, 15:52, SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello community,
> I googled for an answer of the following problem, but I couldn't find
> anything.
> I've got a netbook and my fast workstation compter, which I usually
> use for developing.
> But I'd also like to take my netbook around the house and to develop
> Python programms on it.
> The problem is that naturally a netbook is not the fastest computer
> you could find.
>
> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> netbook.
>
> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?

There are plenty of ways to do this - but they are not really related
to Python.  What is most convenient for you will probably depend on
the tools that you are used to using, your operating system and your
level of expertise with configuring network services.  On mac and
linux it is very easy to set up an ssh server on your workstation.
You can then edit your files remotely - the method might be different
depending on your operating system, unless you use something like
Emacs - and also execute them remotely.

--
Arnaud


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:29:06 2010
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:29:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <af1b5783-7dbe-432e-8d0c-4532dee1d0a9@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Feb, 15:52, SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello community,
> I googled for an answer of the following problem, but I couldn't find
> anything.
> I've got a netbook and my fast workstation compter, which I usually
> use for developing.
> But I'd also like to take my netbook around the house and to develop
> Python programms on it.
> The problem is that naturally a netbook is not the fastest computer
> you could find.
>
> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> netbook.
>
> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?

Yes. Assuming you can cope with the relatively small netbook screen
here are some options:

1. Telnet (ok within a home and where no graphics needed)
2. Ssh (ok where no graphics needed)
3. An X-Windows server on your netbook (ok under Linux but good
Windows X Servers may be limited or nonexistent)
4. VNC (e.g. RealVnc) to get a remote view of the workstation's
screen.

I use telnet and RealVnc for purposes similar to those you describe.

James


From btaylordesign at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:30:48 2010
From: btaylordesign at gmail.com (Brandon)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:30:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about getmtime
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2789.1266596781.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <00c30abd-e240-4ffc-9df7-30fbf573b3ad@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 10:26?am, Krister Svanlund <krister.svanl... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Brandon <btaylordes... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
>
> > Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
> > os.path.getmtime(path)?
>
> > Thank you,
> > Brandon
>
> Wouldn't it be easier to make a script and see for yourself then to
> write a mail about it?

Gee, thanks for the help. I guess.


From wimmersimon at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 19 11:32:48 2010
From: wimmersimon at googlemail.com (SiWi)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 5:10?pm, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
>
> SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
> > developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
> > script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
> > netbook.
>
> > Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?
>
> Yes but it isn't really a Python question. ?I suggest Google but you
> haven't given us enough information, particularly what OSs you are
> running. ?If it was me I would simply use the netbook as a thin client
> for programs that I am writing and running on the main server. ?In my
> case a simple xterm would do the job since vi is my IDE and bash is my
> runtime environment. ?If you are using a GUI IDE you may be able to run
> the GUI app on the server with the display on the netbook.
>
> --
> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <da... at druid.net> ? ? ? ? | ?Democracy is three wolveshttp://www.druid.net/darcy/? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ?and a sheep voting on
> +1 416 425 1212 ? ? (DoD#0082) ? ?(eNTP) ? | ?what's for dinner.

I'm normally using IDLE and sometimes PyScripter on Windows Vista. The
netbook is Windows XP. Should I switch to Vim or Emacs?


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 11:32:53 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2783.1266594647.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a9aa24e2-479b-4a00-8b64-ed2bed9090f4@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 7:50?am, Roald de Vries <r... at roalddevries.nl> wrote:
> > This pipeline idea has actually been implemented further, see <http://
> > blog.onideas.ws/stream.py>.
>
> > from stream import map, filter, cut
> > range(10) >> map(lambda x: [x**2, x**3]) >> filter(lambda t: t[0]!
> > =25 and t[1]!=64) >> cut[1] >> list
> > [0, 1, 8, 27, 216, 343, 512, 729]
>
> Wow, cool!
>
> Just to show that you can easily add the iterator.map(f).blabla-syntax ?
> to Python:
>
> ? ? ?from __future__ import print_function
>
> ? ? ?class rubified(list):
> ? ? ? ? ?map ? ?= lambda self, f: rubified(map(f, self))
> ? ? ? ? ?filter = lambda self, f: rubified(filter(f, self))
> ? ? ? ? ?reject = lambda self, f: rubified(filter(lambda x: not f(x), ?
> self))
> ? ? ? ? ?# each = lambda self, f: rubified(reduce(lambda x, y: ?
> print(y), self, None))
> ? ? ? ? ?def each(self, f):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for x in self: f(x)
>
> ? ? ? ? ?def __new__(cls, value):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return list.__new__(cls, value)
>
> ? ? ?def print_numbers():
> ? ? ? ? ?rubified([1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]).map(lambda n:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[n * n, n * n * n]).reject(lambda (square, cube):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?square == 25 or cube == 64).map(lambda (square, cube):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?cube).each(lambda n:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print(n))

Sure, that definitely achieves the overall sequential structure of
operations that I like in Ruby.  A couple other example have been
posted as well now, which also mimic something akin to a Unix
pipeline.

A lot of Ruby that I see gets spelled like this:

   list.select { |arg1, arg2|
      expr
   }.reject { |arg|
      expr
   }.collect { |arg}
      expr
   }

With your class you can translate into Python as follows:

   list.select(lambda arg1, arg2:
      expr
   ).reject(lambda arg:
      expr
   ).collect(lambda arg:
      expr
   )

So for chaining transformations based on filters, the difference
really just comes down to syntax (and how much sugar is built into the
core library).

The extra expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can add
statements within the block, which I find useful sometimes just for
debugging purposes:

    debug = true
    data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code()
    data.each { |arg|
        if debug and arg > 10000
            puts arg
        end
        # square the values
        arg * arg
    }






From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 12:21:03 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 17:21:03 GMT
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:51:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:

> On 2010-02-19 00:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:15:20 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
>>
>>>>> What's the point of the wheel spinning? Did I miss something?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder whether it's for some kind of framework with a main loop
>>>> like
>>>>
>>>> for it in list_of_iterables:
>>>>       for x in it:
>>>>           do_this_or_that (x)
>>>>
>>>> where, every once in a while one wants to throw some arbitrary code
>>>> into the process, in the form of an empty iterable with side effects.
>>>
>>> Yes. That is exactly what the OP said in his original post:
>>>
>>> """
>>> I have some generators that do stuff, then start yielding results. On
>>> occasion, I don't want them to yield anything ever-- they're only
>>> really "generators" because I want to call them /as/ a generator as
>>> part of a generalized system. """
>>
>> But he doesn't say anything about side-effects.
> 
> "I have some generators *that do stuff*, then start yielding results."
> [emphasis mine]. 

What does "do stuff" have to do with side-effects? Here's a generator 
that does stuff, and it has no side-effects.

def generator_that_does_stuff(x):
    y = 3*x**2 - 5*x + 1
    yield y

"Do stuff" is ambiguous -- it could mean stuff with side-effects, or 
stuff without. The first is potentially harmful, the second is pointless.


> Then he gives an example of a generator that does
> side-effect stuff and returning before yielding anything.

Unfortunately the OP's original post isn't visible to me, so I can only 
respond to your post, which may or may not quote the entire original post.

The only example I have seen was an empty generator with a comment saying 
"do my one-time processing here", with *no* indication of what that one-
time processing is supposed to be, why it is necessary, and whether it 
has side-effects or not.

Since the OP (apparently) hasn't seen fit to comment, we're still all 
guessing what he means. It's certainly possible, likely even, that he's 
using generators that operate by side-effect: that explanation is 
consistent with his request. Personally, I can't imagine that would be 
good coding practice, but I could be wrong.


-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb 19 12:21:24 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:21:24 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/19/2010 7:16 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Andre Engels wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence
>> <breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Andre Engels wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com>
...
tories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*. Then the OP
> would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.
>
> HTH.
>
> Mark Lawrence
>
Here's the answer. Consider this folder.

Afolder
   abc.py
   hello.py

I now apply py2exe steps to produce an  "executable" for abc. The folder 
now changes to

Afolder
   build
   dist
   abc.py
   hello.py

build are two new folders. dist contains abc.exe.

Somehow when I type abc at the command prompt, this follows a path to 
dist, and finds abc.exe, where it executes properly.
Cute, eh? I have no explanation for it.

I have no idea what build is for, but dist contains a bunch of other 
files that possible apply to doing this with other files in the Afolder. 
hello.py maybe. The details seem to be shrouded. Possible a Google might 
provide a full explanation.


From darcy at druid.net  Fri Feb 19 12:22:43 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:22:43 -0500
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100219122243.13051024.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:48 -0800 (PST)
SiWi <wimmersimon at googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'm normally using IDLE and sometimes PyScripter on Windows Vista. The
> netbook is Windows XP. Should I switch to Vim or Emacs?

Umm... Yes?  It's still not a Python question and is in fact a
religious one.  Other people have different religions.  You should
probably ask this question on a list dedicated to using Windows.  What
you want to know is how to run programs remotely.  The fact that it is
a Python program is irrelevant.

I'm not trying to brush you off.  I'm just trying to point you
somewhere that can answer your question better.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 12:30:42 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 17:30:42 GMT
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2783.1266594647.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a9aa24e2-479b-4a00-8b64-ed2bed9090f4@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7ecac2$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:53 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:

> The extra expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can add
> statements within the block, which I find useful sometimes just for
> debugging purposes:
> 
>     debug = true
>     data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code() 
>     data.each { |arg|
>         if debug and arg > 10000
>             puts arg
>         end
>         # square the values
>         arg * arg
>     }

How is that different from this?

debug = true
data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code() 
for i, arg in enumerate(data):
    if debug and arg > 10000
        print arg
    # square the values
    data[i] = arg * arg


I don't see the extra expressiveness. What I see is that the Ruby snippet 
takes more lines (even excluding the final brace), and makes things 
implicit which in my opinion should be explicit. But since I'm no Ruby 
expert, perhaps I'm misreading it.


-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 19 12:41:10 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:41:10 -0500
Subject: with statement and standard library
In-Reply-To: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlmifj$gvq$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/19/2010 2:18 AM, nobrowser wrote:
> Hi.  The with statement is certainly nifty.  The trouble is, the
> *only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
> classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
> which I almost never use.  Yet there are many, many classes in the
> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
> statement could be employed.  Start with the connection objects in
> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily.  Maybe it
> is the case that some of these classes have with statement support
> already but I don't know it?  If so, how can I know (without asking
> here each time, LOL)?  If not, is there work being done on that?


> I am interested in this question mostly in the context of Python 2.6.

2.6 is in maintenance mode only; no new features.
2.7 will be so when released in June and effectively so in a month when 
the first beta is released.
3.2 is a reasonable target.

tjr



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 12:44:16 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:44:16 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org> 
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:51:54 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
> >> But he doesn't say anything about side-effects.
> >
> > "I have some generators *that do stuff*, then start yielding results."
> > [emphasis mine].
>
> What does "do stuff" have to do with side-effects? Here's a generator
> that does stuff, and it has no side-effects.
>
> def generator_that_does_stuff(x):
>    y = 3*x**2 - 5*x + 1
>    yield y
>
> "Do stuff" is ambiguous -- it could mean stuff with side-effects, or
> stuff without. The first is potentially harmful, the second is pointless.


What does it matter what *do stuff* means? My point is, there's *stuff* I
need to do there, and what that stuff is really has absolutely nothing to do
with the issue at hand. Its certainly a side-effect, at least in terms of
the generator, otherwise there would be no point really in having the
generator there at all.

I have a system that consumes generators which, almost always, yield over
objects to be handled. One in ten-- nay, one in 20, if not worse-- cases has
me wanting to inject into this system some arbitrary code that gets run.
Some bit of processing I need to get done in the context of that cycle.

There's nothing harmful about it. These aren't generic generators that are
going to be passed around and consumed by random things or anything else.
They exist solely to be consumed by the core system. They're never composed
or loaded by anything else, its just the API of how the system works. It
loads bunches of modules dynamically, each module has a generator for
yielding objects to be consumed. That generator is the one and only line of
connection between the core system and the modules.


> > Then he gives an example of a generator that does
> > side-effect stuff and returning before yielding anything.
>
> Unfortunately the OP's original post isn't visible to me, so I can only
> respond to your post, which may or may not quote the entire original post.
>
> The only example I have seen was an empty generator with a comment saying
> "do my one-time processing here", with *no* indication of what that one-
> time processing is supposed to be, why it is necessary, and whether it
> has side-effects or not.
>

It doesn't matter what the one-time processing is supposed to be. I could
say, "This particular module doesn't yield objects like all the rest, but
instead just needs to override a certain utility function the system uses,
to change how name equality is handled so that tests compare on normalized
forms. The API for integrating into the the core system -- to be loaded as a
module and integrated into the system -- is to have a generator of a certain
name, which yields N objects. In this case, N = 0.".

Now, having said that, why in the world does that matter at all to my
question? :) It changes no part of anyone's possible solution, be it
Robert's once-wrapped-to-decorator, to Holden's just-comment-the-oddity, to
your empty-for-loop-yield, to any others.

It doesn't *matter* what the processing has to be. And if it has
side-effects or not is only relevant to the question of the perversity of my
use-case, a discussion I just don't really even have any interest in =)

Thanks, all, though, for your responses and solutions.

Much to my embarrassment, sometime last night I realized I was being a
complete idiot, and the 'correct' way to handle this in my scenario is
really just:

def initialize():
    # do one time processing here

    return []

A generator is just a callable that returns an iterator, after all. If I
don't want to yield anything, returning an empty iterable accomplishes the
same goal to get the code loaded and run by the host-cycle while
contributing nothing at all to the object pool.

--S
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 12:50:19 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:50:19 +0000
Subject: best way to create a dict from string
In-Reply-To: <hljpd1$78g$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>
References: <hljpd1$78g$1@foggy.unx.sas.com>
Message-ID: <4B7ECF5B.9090900@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Tim Arnold wrote:
> Hi,
> I've got some text to parse that looks like this
> 
> text = ''' blah blah blah
> \Template[Name=RAD,LMRB=False,LMRG=True]{tables}
> ho dee ho
> '''

If you're going to include backslashes in the string literal then use a
raw string for safety.

> I want to extract the bit between the brackets and create a dictionary. 
> Here's what I'm doing now:
> 
> def options(text):
>     d = dict()
>     options = text[text.find('[')+1:text.find(']')]
>     for k,v in [val.split('=') for val in options.split(',')]:
>         d[k] = v
>     return d
> 
1. I'd check whether there's actually a template.

2. 'dict' will accept a list of key/value pairs.

def options(text):
     start = text.find('[')
     end = text.find(']', start)
     if start == -1 or end == -1:
         return {}
     options = text[start + 1 : end]
     return dict(val.split('=') for val in options.split(','))

> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     for line in text.split('\n'):
>         if line.startswith('\\Template'):
>             print options(line)
> 
> 
> is that the best way or maybe there's something simpler?  The options will 
> always be key=value format, comma separated.
> thanks,
> 



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 12:56:15 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<db4c8828-5699-4111-aa35-828b590ff791@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<cef96dca-6fb2-4302-8ab5-3ae995197e03@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2767.1266557880.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<79220dd0-3d91-47c1-84d1-5bf1760d9cef@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<5a9d7518-778e-40e6-9448-ae9115c3fb6e@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2783.1266594647.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<a9aa24e2-479b-4a00-8b64-ed2bed9090f4@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7ecac2$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <ac6917bf-b74f-458a-b8ca-2dba09d26f6e@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 9:30?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:32:53 -0800, Steve Howell wrote:
> > The extra expressiveness of Ruby comes from the fact that you can add
> > statements within the block, which I find useful sometimes just for
> > debugging purposes:
>
> > ? ? debug = true
> > ? ? data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code()
> > ? ? data.each { |arg|
> > ? ? ? ? if debug and arg > 10000
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts arg
> > ? ? ? ? end
> > ? ? ? ? # square the values
> > ? ? ? ? arg * arg
> > ? ? }
>
> How is that different from this?
>
> debug = true
> data = strange_dataset_from_third_party_code()
> for i, arg in enumerate(data):
> ? ? if debug and arg > 10000
> ? ? ? ? print arg
> ? ? # square the values
> ? ? data[i] = arg * arg
>
> I don't see the extra expressiveness. What I see is that the Ruby snippet
> takes more lines (even excluding the final brace), and makes things
> implicit which in my opinion should be explicit. But since I'm no Ruby
> expert, perhaps I'm misreading it.
>

You are reading the example out of context.

Can you re-read the part you snipped?

The small piece of code can obviously be written imperatively, but the
point of the example was not to print a bunch of squares.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 13:06:40 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:06:40 +0000
Subject: Question about getmtime
In-Reply-To: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7ED330.4050308@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Brandon wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
> os.path.getmtime(path)?
> 
The modification time of a copied file should be the same as the
original.

The creation time of a copied file will be the time at which it was
copied, so that can result in the paradoxical state of a file having
been modified _before_ it was created! :-)


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Fri Feb 19 13:22:09 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:22:09 -0700
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
Message-ID: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>

I have some some (~50) text files that have about 250,000 rows each. I am
reading them in using the following which gets me what I want. But it is not
fast. Is there something I am missing that should help. This is mostly an
question to help me learn more about python. It takes about 4 min right now.

def read_data_file(filename):
    reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
    read = list(reader)
    data_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[MASKS]' not in trow, [x for x in
read])
    data = [x for x in data_rows][1:]

    mask_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[OUTLIERS]' not in trow,
list(dropwhile(lambda drow: '[MASKS]' not in drow, read)))
    mask = [row for row in mask_rows if row][3:]

    outlier_rows = dropwhile(lambda drows: '[OUTLIERS]' not in drows, read)
    outlier = [row for row in outlier_rows if row][3:]


  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>
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From chrisprinos at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 13:23:43 2010
From: chrisprinos at gmail.com (Chris Prinos)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:23:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Replacement for e.message() in python 2.6
References: <0PKdnTVryZFJIObWnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@westnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <4017a5bb-ea1f-4aa8-b80f-95b6a938aaed@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 17, 4:58?am, Nandakumar Chandrasekhar <navanitach... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear Folks,
>
> In previous versions of Python I used to use e.message() to print out
> the error message of an exception like so:
>
> try:
> ? ? ? ? result = x / y
> except ZeroDivisionError, e:
> ? ? ? ? print e.message()
>
> Unfortunately in Python 2.6 the message method is deprecated.
>
> Is there any replacement for the message method in Python 2.6 or is
> there any best practice that should be used in Python from now on?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Nanda

try:
? ? ? ? result = x / y
except ZeroDivisionError as e:
? ? ? ? print e

Note different syntax using "except ... as ..."

e.message is deprecated here, but e.args[0] contains the same thing.

see http://docs.python.org/dev/3.0/whatsnew/2.6.html#pep-3110
and http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3110/

chris


From steve.l.cohen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 13:35:56 2010
From: steve.l.cohen at gmail.com (Steven Cohen)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:35:56 -0600
Subject: Trouble running pywin32-214.win-amd64-py3.1 on 64-bit Windows 7
Message-ID: <5cf1aff91002191035o7c65df3bjfb4f26805923ea0d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I downloaded pywin32-214.win-amd64-py3.1, and it installs just fine (except
that it prints a traceback when it tells me the postinstall script
completed), but then when I try to execute Pythonwin.exe, I get the
following error popup:

The application can not locate win32ui.pyd (or Python) (126)
The specified module could not be found

However, the file win32ui.pyd is right there in the same directory from
which I am executing Pythonwin.exe.  Can anyone help me figure out what I am
doing wrong here?

Thanks.
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 19 13:52:16 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:52:16 +0100
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7EDDE0.6000000@sequans.com>

SiWi wrote:
> On Feb 19, 5:10 pm, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
>>> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
>>> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
>>> netbook.
>>>       
>>> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?
>>>       
>> Yes but it isn't really a Python question.  I suggest Google but you
>> haven't given us enough information, particularly what OSs you are
>> running.  If it was me I would simply use the netbook as a thin client
>> for programs that I am writing and running on the main server.  In my
>> case a simple xterm would do the job since vi is my IDE and bash is my
>> runtime environment.  If you are using a GUI IDE you may be able to run
>> the GUI app on the server with the display on the netbook.
>>
>> --
>> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <da... at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolveshttp://www.druid.net/darcy/               |  and a sheep voting on
>> +1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
>>     
>
> I'm normally using IDLE and sometimes PyScripter on Windows Vista. The
> netbook is Windows XP. Should I switch to Vim or Emacs?
>   
Vista supports rdesktop , you could use it.
I don't know if XP is shipped with a rdesktop client though (goggle for 
remote desktop).

JM



From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 13:56:37 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:56:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 12:21?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> On 2/19/2010 7:16 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:> Andre Engels wrote:
> >> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence
> >> <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> Andre Engels wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson <wolftra... at invalid.com>
>
> ...
> tories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*. Then the OP> would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.
>
> > HTH.
>
> > Mark Lawrence
>
> Here's the answer. Consider this folder.
>
> Afolder
> ? ?abc.py
> ? ?hello.py
>
> I now apply py2exe steps to produce an ?"executable" for abc. The folder
> now changes to
>
> Afolder
> ? ?build
> ? ?dist
> ? ?abc.py
> ? ?hello.py
>
> build are two new folders. dist contains abc.exe.
>
> Somehow when I type abc at the command prompt, this follows a path to
> dist, and finds abc.exe, where it executes properly.
> Cute, eh? I have no explanation for it.

Are you sure it's executing abc.exe?  If you are at a Python command
prompt within the "DOS shell" and you just type just abc, I think what
is happening is you are running abc.py, NOT abc.exe.

py2exe creates a dist folder (short for "distributables") by default
and puts your .exe into it along with whatever other files are needed
to run your application.  Depending on how you set the bundling
options, this may be a lot of things or just 1-2 other things.

Che


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 19 14:02:28 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:02:28 -0500
Subject: Question about getmtime
In-Reply-To: <00c30abd-e240-4ffc-9df7-30fbf573b3ad@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2789.1266596781.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<00c30abd-e240-4ffc-9df7-30fbf573b3ad@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7EE044.2080804@ieee.org>

Brandon wrote:
> On Feb 19, 10:26 am, Krister Svanlund <krister.svanl... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Brandon <btaylordes... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>       
>>> Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
>>> os.path.getmtime(path)?
>>>       
>>> Thank you,
>>> Brandon
>>>       
>> Wouldn't it be easier to make a script and see for yourself then to
>> write a mail about it?
>>     
>
> Gee, thanks for the help. I guess.
>
>   
Well, copying the file won't affect the getmtime, since it's still 
there, and unmodified.  Moving it will cause the getmtime to to get an 
os.error, because the file no longer exists.

Probably you mean you're adjusting the path variable to point to the new 
location for the file.  But the answer is still "it depends."  How about 
if you get more specific?  If you write a copy utility using two opens, 
a read() and a write(), then the new file will certainly get a new 
timestamp unless you do something to prevent it.  If you copy the file 
from a DOS box in Windows XP, using the COPY command, then the getmtime 
on the new file will be identical to the one on the old.  If you do it 
on an Amiga using pip, I have no idea.

Perhaps you're writing a copy/move utility of your own, and you want to 
know how to cause a new file to have the same attributes as the 
original.  If so, be more specific.

DaveA



From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 19 14:04:16 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:04:16 -0500
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7EE0B0.5080605@ieee.org>

SiWi wrote:
> On Feb 19, 5:10 pm, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:52:59 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> SiWi <wimmersi... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm
>>> developing on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the
>>> script execute on the workstation pc and write the output back on the
>>> netbook.
>>>       
>>> Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?
>>>       
>> Yes but it isn't really a Python question.  I suggest Google but you
>> haven't given us enough information, particularly what OSs you are
>> running.  If it was me I would simply use the netbook as a thin client
>> for programs that I am writing and running on the main server.  In my
>> case a simple xterm would do the job since vi is my IDE and bash is my
>> runtime environment.  If you are using a GUI IDE you may be able to run
>> the GUI app on the server with the display on the netbook.
>>
>> --
>> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <da... at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolveshttp://www.druid.net/darcy/               |  and a sheep voting on
>> +1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
>>     
>
> I'm normally using IDLE and sometimes PyScripter on Windows Vista. The
> netbook is Windows XP. Should I switch to Vim or Emacs?
>
>   
In that case, consider using RemoveDesktop, which is built into both Xp 
and Vista.

DaveA


From misceverything at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:08:53 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:08:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 7:19?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > example, via HTTP/HTTPS). ? Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.). ?What would
> > be the best way to go about doing this?
>
> I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> you might find it useful:
>
> ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
>
> Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
> come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
> py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).
>
> ? Cheers,
>
> ? ? ?Ryan
>
> --
> Ryan Kellyhttp://www.rfk.id.au?| ?This message is digitally signed. Please visit
> r... at rfk.id.au ? ? ? ?| ?http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/for details
>
> ?signature.asc
> < 1KViewDownload

Thanks Ryan..this looks like it could be what I'm looking for, but I'm
still a bit unsure of how exactly how it works.  Do you happen to have
an idea approx when the next release w/ tutorial will be out?


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Feb 19 14:25:21 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:25:21 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlmoit$6vg$1@ger.gmane.org>

On 2/19/2010 12:44 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> Much to my embarrassment, sometime last night I realized I was being a
> complete idiot, and the 'correct' way to handle this in my scenario is
> really just:
>
> def initialize():
>      # do one time processing here
>
>      return []
>
> A generator is just a callable that returns an iterator, after all.

Confusing generators and generator functions is, well, confusing.
For future reference, and clarity of communication in Pythonland,

generator function: function that produces a generator when called; if 
python coded, its body contains 'yield'.

generator: iterator produced by a generator function; has .__next__ and 
self-returning .__init__, like all other iterators.

generator expression: an expression that evaluates to a generator; the 
expression is used to create a temporary anonymous generator function 
that is called to produce the generator and is then discarded.

 >>> def gf(): yield 1

 >>> gf
<function gf at 0x00F5F4B0>
 >>> g=gf()
 >>> g
<generator object gf at 0x00F5BE40>
 >>> ge = (1 for i in [1])
 >>> ge
<generator object <genexpr> at 0x00F5BFD0>
 >>> dir(ge)
[..., '__iter__', ..., '__next__', ...]

So, when you said that you send 'generators' to your core system, when 
you meant 'generator functions', we were understanably confused. (Your 
core system should accept iterator classes also, unless it specifically 
checks to avoid duck typing.)

Terry Jan Reedy



From anfedorov at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:47:50 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:47:50 -0500
Subject: Chaining 501 generators breaks everything?
Message-ID: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>

I implemented a Sieve of
Eratosthenes<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes>primes
algorithm using generators:

http://gist.github.com/309109


This code which chains together 500 generators works fine (~1/20th of a
second) on my laptop. The code which chaines 501 generators (s/498/499/ on
line 23) doesn't seem to finish.

Does anyone know the reason for this, or can anyone point me where to look
for a good explanation?

Cheers,
Andrey
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From anfedorov at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:57:03 2010
From: anfedorov at gmail.com (Andrey Fedorov)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:57:03 -0500
Subject: Chaining 501 generators breaks everything?
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7659cab31002191157m498a1de7l1087b930682bd991@mail.gmail.com>

Ack, just ran it from shell, realized my editor was just choking on a
"maximum recursion depth exceeded" RuntimeError. Didn't realize generators
used the call stack...

- Andrey

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com> wrote:

> I implemented a Sieve of Eratosthenes<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes>primes algorithm using generators:
>
> http://gist.github.com/309109
>
>
> This code which chains together 500 generators works fine (~1/20th of a
> second) on my laptop. The code which chaines 501 generators (s/498/499/ on
> line 23) doesn't seem to finish.
>
> Does anyone know the reason for this, or can anyone point me where to look
> for a good explanation?
>
> Cheers,
> Andrey
>
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 15:02:10 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:02:10 +0000
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7EEE42.6090806@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Vincent Davis wrote:
> I have some some (~50) text files that have about 250,000 rows each. I 
> am reading them in using the following which gets me what I want. But it 
> is not fast. Is there something I am missing that should help. This is 
> mostly an question to help me learn more about python. It takes about 4 
> min right now.
> 
> def read_data_file(filename):
>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>     read = list(reader)
>     data_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[MASKS]' not in trow, [x for x 
> in read])

'takewhile' accepts an iterable, so "[x for x in read]" can be
simplified to "read".

>     data = [x for x in data_rows][1:]
>     
     data = data_rows[1:]

>     mask_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[OUTLIERS]' not in trow, 
> list(dropwhile(lambda drow: '[MASKS]' not in drow, read)))
>     mask = [row for row in mask_rows if row][3:]
>     
No need to convert the result of 'dropwhile' to list.

>     outlier_rows = dropwhile(lambda drows: '[OUTLIERS]' not in drows, read)
>     outlier = [row for row in outlier_rows if row][3:]
> 
The problem, as I see it, is that you're scanning the rows more than
once.

Is this any better?

def read_data_file(filename):
     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
     data = []
     for row in reader:
         if '[MASKS]' in row:
             break
         data.append(row)
     data = data[1:]
     mask = []
     if '[MASKS]' in row:
         mask.append(row)
         for row in reader:
             if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
                 break
             if row:
                 mask.append(row)
         mask = mask[3:]
     outlier = []
     if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
         outlier.append(row)
         outliter.extend(row for row in outlier if row)
         outlier = outlier[3:]



From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 19 15:16:05 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:16:05 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net>

On 2/19/2010 2:25 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/19/2010 12:44 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>
>> Much to my embarrassment, sometime last night I realized I was being a
>> complete idiot, and the 'correct' way to handle this in my scenario is
>> really just:
>>
>> def initialize():
>> # do one time processing here
>>
>> return []
>>
>> A generator is just a callable that returns an iterator, after all.
>
> Confusing generators and generator functions is, well, confusing.
> For future reference, and clarity of communication in Pythonland,
>
> generator function: function that produces a generator when called; if
> python coded, its body contains 'yield'.
>
> generator: iterator produced by a generator function;

I suggest:

  iterator produced by a generator function or a generator expression;

has .__next__ and
> self-returning .__init__, like all other iterators.
>
> generator expression: an expression that evaluates to a generator; the
> expression is used to create a temporary anonymous generator function
> that is called to produce the generator and is then discarded.

Note that the Py2.6.4 documentation is inconsistent. AFAICT, it conforms 
to Terry's definitions above in most places. But the Glossary says:

  generator
     A function which returns an iterator. <... more ...>

  generator expression
     An expression that returns a generator.  <... more ...>

The additional verbiage in these definitions mitigates the damage, but I 
think the first entry should be headlined *generator function* instead 
of *generator*. And the Glossary should include Terry's additional entry 
[ as amended by me :-) ]:

  generator
     An iterator produced by a generator function or a generator
     expression.

-John



From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 19 16:00:30 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:00:30 -0500
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2805.1266609732.28905.python-list@python.org>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2805.1266609732.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B7EFBEE.1030808@optimum.net>

On 2/19/2010 3:02 PM, MRAB wrote:
> Is this any better?
>
> def read_data_file(filename):
>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>     data = []
>     for row in reader:
>         if '[MASKS]' in row:
>             break
>         data.append(row)

As noted in another thread recently, you can save time by *not* looking 
up the "append" method of the list object each time through the FOR loop:

      data = []
      app_method = data.append
      for row in reader:
          if '[MASKS]' in row:
              break
          app_method(row)

Similarly in the rest of the code. This technique improved performance 
about 31% in this test:

#--------------------
import timeit
tt = timeit.repeat("for i in xrange(1000000): mylist.append(i)",
                    "mylist=[]",
                    number=25)
print "look up append() method each time:", min(tt)

tt = timeit.repeat("for i in xrange(1000000): app(i)",
                    "mylist=[]; app = mylist.append",
                    number=25)
print "look up append() method just once:", min(tt)
#--------------------

output:

look up append() method each time: 8.45481741783
look up append() method just once: 5.84429637887

-John




From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Feb 19 16:13:09 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:13:09 -0800
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:

> I have some some (~50) text files that have about 250,000 rows each. I am
> reading them in using the following which gets me what I want. But it is not
> fast. Is there something I am missing that should help. This is mostly an
> question to help me learn more about python. It takes about 4 min right now.
>
> def read_data_file(filename):
>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>     read = list(reader)
>

You're slurping the entire file here when it's not necessary.


>     data_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[MASKS]' not in trow, [x for x in
> read])
>

[x for x in read] is basically a copy of the entire list. This isn't
necessary.


>     data = [x for x in data_rows][1:]
>
>

Again, copying here is unnecessary.

[x for x in y] isn't a paradigm in Python. If you really need a copy of an
array, x = y[:] is the paradigm.


>     mask_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[OUTLIERS]' not in trow,
> list(dropwhile(lambda drow: '[MASKS]' not in drow, read)))
>





>     mask = [row for row in mask_rows if row][3:]
>

Here's another unnecessary array copy.


>
>     outlier_rows = dropwhile(lambda drows: '[OUTLIERS]' not in drows, read)
>     outlier = [row for row in outlier_rows if row][3:]
>


And another.

Just because you're using Python doesn't mean you get to be silly in how you
move data around. Avoid copies as much as possible, and try to avoid
slurping in large files all at once. Line-by-line processing is best.

I think you should invert this operation into a for loop. Most people tend
to think of things better that way than chained iterators. It also helps you
to not duplicate data when it's unnecessary.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net
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From ryan at rfk.id.au  Fri Feb 19 16:28:37 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:28:37 +1100
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
In-Reply-To: <7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1266614917.2495.34.camel@rambutan>

On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 20:32 -0800, CM wrote:
> On Feb 18, 7:19 pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > > example, via HTTP/HTTPS).   Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.).  What would
> > > be the best way to go about doing this?
> >
> > I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> > you might find it useful:
> >
> >  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
> >
>
> 
> This looks pretty interesting and useful.

Thanks :-)

> Just to help me understand it a bit more:  what is it that users will
> download from some web page in order to initially get the py2exe'd app
> on their system?  Is it "really" an "esky", with the app's .exe file
> inside it (but the esky is named the same as the app)?

Currently, it's just a zip file with the frozen app in it, which the
user unzips to wherever they want the app.  When unzipped it looks like
this:

   myapp.exe  <-- actually the esky bootstrap exe
   myapp-X.Y.Z.win32/
       myapp.exe  <-- the actual frozen app as produced by py2exe
       python26.dll
       ...etc...

This could easily be wrapped in an installer - the important thing is
just that the files end up on the user's machine in the expected
directory structure.

>   And then when
> they want to update, the app's code calls the esky class to do the
> work of swapping out the appropriate .exe file?  Something like this?

Yes.  The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
executable file.  As long as you don't change python versions, this
allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
without atomic file replacement.

So the frozen app does this in a background thread:

   Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()

And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory.  Et
viola, your app is at the latest version.

From the packager's point of view, you run the "bdist_esky" distutils
command to generate the zipfile containing your latest version, then
simply upload it to your server.

> Would this also work if one used InnoSetup to install the exe on the
> user's system?

Yes, absolutely - in fact I plan to do this myself at some stage.  All
that's required is that the files end up in the expected directory
structure.


   Ryan


-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From ryan at rfk.id.au  Fri Feb 19 16:32:16 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:32:16 +1100
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
In-Reply-To: <20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1266615136.2495.39.camel@rambutan>

On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 11:08 -0800, T wrote:
> On Feb 18, 7:19 pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > > example, via HTTP/HTTPS).   Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.).  What would
> > > be the best way to go about doing this?
> >
> > I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> > you might find it useful:
> >
> >  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
> >
> > Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
> > come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
> > py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).
> >
> Thanks Ryan..this looks like it could be what I'm looking for, but I'm
> still a bit unsure of how exactly how it works.  Do you happen to have
> an idea approx when the next release w/ tutorial will be out?


If I punt on the py2app support, I should be able to get it done in the
next 3-4 days.  I'll send a quick email to python-list when it's ready.

Here's a rough roadmap of where the project is heading:

  v0.4.0:  cx_freeze support and a tutorial [the next 3-4 days]
  v0.4.1:  py2app support [the next 2-3 weeks]
  v0.5.0:  differential updates using bsdiff [next few months]


  Cheers,

     Ryan



-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From wolftracks at invalid.com  Fri Feb 19 16:42:55 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:42:55 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/19/2010 10:56 AM, CM wrote:
> On Feb 19, 12:21 pm, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> On 2/19/2010 7:16 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:>  Andre Engels wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence
>>>> <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>>> Andre Engels wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson<wolftra... at invalid.com>
>>
>> ...
>> tories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*. Then the OP>  would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.
>>
>>> HTH.
>>
>>> Mark Lawrence
>>
>> Here's the answer. Consider this folder.
>>
>> Afolder
>>     abc.py
>>     hello.py
>>
>> I now apply py2exe steps to produce an  "executable" for abc. The folder
>> now changes to
>>
>> Afolder
>>     build
>>     dist
>>     abc.py
>>     hello.py
>>
>> build are two new folders. dist contains abc.exe.
>>
>> Somehow when I type abc at the command prompt, this follows a path to
>> dist, and finds abc.exe, where it executes properly.
>> Cute, eh? I have no explanation for it.
>
> Are you sure it's executing abc.exe?  If you are at a Python command
> prompt within the "DOS shell" and you just type just abc, I think what
> is happening is you are running abc.py, NOT abc.exe.
>
> py2exe creates a dist folder (short for "distributables") by default
> and puts your .exe into it along with whatever other files are needed
> to run your application.  Depending on how you set the bundling
> options, this may be a lot of things or just 1-2 other things.
>
> Che
Well, you are right. What proof do I have? In fact, I just tried to run 
a program that was not converted, and left off py. It worked.

So maybe the only way to execute the compiled code is to to to dist?


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Feb 19 16:47:46 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:47:46 -0800
Subject: Chaining 501 generators breaks everything?
In-Reply-To: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7659cab31002191147jb219150l944eab28447e1126@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002191347n7a48a231ic4d65ad020296b54@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Andrey Fedorov <anfedorov at gmail.com> wrote:
> I implemented a?Sieve of Eratosthenes primes algorithm using generators:
>
> http://gist.github.com/309109
>
> This code which chains together 500 generators works fine (~1/20th of a
> second) on my laptop.
>

You may want a more traditional approach. Until Python gets tail
recursion (doubtful), this won't work very well on any platform.

#!/usr/bin/env python

from itertools import islice, count
from time import time

def primes():
    seen = []
    for i in count(2):
        for s in seen:
            if i%s == 0:
                break
        else: # Run if the for loop doesn't break
            seen.append(i)
            yield i

start = time()
for i in islice(primes(), 0, 10000):
    print i
print time() - start

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 16:48:47 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:48:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
Message-ID: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hey all,

I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.

Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
was blocking me because of many automated logins.

However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.

The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
on any site.

However, at my friend's place, I was able to open url's from HIS
computer, no problem.

Can anyone think of anything I can do to solve this problem? Why would
firefox be working fine but not Python?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Matt


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 16:52:57 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:52:57 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002191352v3dcfb04fm4a332a6f773f047e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:42 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

>
>>  Well, you are right. What proof do I have? In fact, I just tried to run a
> program that was not converted, and left off py. It worked.
>
> So maybe the only way to execute the compiled code is to to to dist?


Yes. You're meant to move everything in "dist" to where you want to run it,
that's the point of the dist folder-- its what you distribute. THe .exe and
the other stuff next to it the .exe needs to run.


--S
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From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Fri Feb 19 16:58:41 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:58:41 -0700
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>

In reference to the several comments about "[x for x in read] is basically a
copy of the entire list. This isn't necessary." or list(read). I had thought
I had a problem with having iterators in the takewhile() statement. I
thought I testes and it didn't work. It seems I was wrong. It clearly works.
I'll make this change and see if it is any better.

I actually don't plan to read them all in at once, only as needed, but I do
need the whole file in an array to perform some mathematics on them and
compare different files. So my interest was in making it faster to open them
as needed. I guess part of it is that they are about 5mb so I guess it might
be disk speed in part.
Thanks

*Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:
>
>> I have some some (~50) text files that have about 250,000 rows each. I am
>> reading them in using the following which gets me what I want. But it is not
>> fast. Is there something I am missing that should help. This is mostly an
>> question to help me learn more about python. It takes about 4 min right now.
>>
>> def read_data_file(filename):
>>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>>     read = list(reader)
>>
>
> You're slurping the entire file here when it's not necessary.
>
>
>>     data_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[MASKS]' not in trow, [x for x in
>> read])
>>
>
> [x for x in read] is basically a copy of the entire list. This isn't
> necessary.
>
>
>>      data = [x for x in data_rows][1:]
>>
>>
>
> Again, copying here is unnecessary.
>
> [x for x in y] isn't a paradigm in Python. If you really need a copy of an
> array, x = y[:] is the paradigm.
>
>
>>     mask_rows = takewhile(lambda trow: '[OUTLIERS]' not in trow,
>> list(dropwhile(lambda drow: '[MASKS]' not in drow, read)))
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>>     mask = [row for row in mask_rows if row][3:]
>>
>
> Here's another unnecessary array copy.
>
>
>>
>>     outlier_rows = dropwhile(lambda drows: '[OUTLIERS]' not in drows,
>> read)
>>     outlier = [row for row in outlier_rows if row][3:]
>>
>
>
> And another.
>
> Just because you're using Python doesn't mean you get to be silly in how
> you move data around. Avoid copies as much as possible, and try to avoid
> slurping in large files all at once. Line-by-line processing is best.
>
> I think you should invert this operation into a for loop. Most people tend
> to think of things better that way than chained iterators. It also helps you
> to not duplicate data when it's unnecessary.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
>
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Feb 19 17:00:03 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:00:03 -0800
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002191400j33f4735cl9809b40b5f189777@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:48 PM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> on any site.
>
> However, at my friend's place, I was able to open url's from HIS
> computer, no problem.
>
> Can anyone think of anything I can do to solve this problem? Why would
> firefox be working fine but not Python?
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>

Are you running behind a firewall? See if Firefox is configured with a
proxy. You'll have to use that to talk to any website.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 17:05:04 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:05:04 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<741ae84b-a33e-4ea6-b1e5-0035ff862bdf@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<a2f77e98-922a-4211-b494-256e6cd9b4cc@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7f0b2c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/19/10 14:57, Steve Howell wrote:
> In a more real world example, the intermediate results would be
> something like this:
> 
>    departments
>    departments_in_new_york
>    departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    employees_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
>    names_of_employee_in_departments_in_new_york_not_on_bonus_cycle
> 

I fare better, in less than ten-seconds thinking:

departments
eligible_departments
eligible_departments
eligible_employees
eligible_employee_names

as a bonus, they would be much more resilient when there are change of
eligibility requirements.

Names doesn't have to exactly describe what's in it; in fact, if your
names is way too descriptive, it may take significantly more brain-cycle
to parse. A good name abstracts the objects contained in it.


From half.italian at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 17:09:56 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:09:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Question about getmtime
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2795.1266602798.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2f56a4b1-4f2b-4ec9-827b-e6d4e5d52f7d@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 10:06?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Brandon wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
>
> > Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
> > os.path.getmtime(path)?
>
> The modification time of a copied file should be the same as the
> original.
>
> The creation time of a copied file will be the time at which it was
> copied, so that can result in the paradoxical state of a file having
> been modified _before_ it was created! :-)

ctime does not stand for creation time.  I went through this a couple
of months ago.  It's updated whenever the inode is updated, so
changing permissions, among other things will update it.

It blew me away when I finally found this out.

~Sean


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 19 17:12:21 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:12:21 -0800
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002191412u43d6cbd0off090f987e82d61@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:48 PM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> on any site.
<snip>
> Can anyone think of anything I can do to solve this problem? Why would
> firefox be working fine but not Python?
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Based on what you've said, it's possible the school may have blocked
mechanize's User-Agent somehow.
Try spoofing mechanize as Firefox by setting the string for the
User-Agent header to that of Firefox.
See the section "Changing the automatically-added headers
(User-Agent)" on http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/mechanize/doc.html
for how to do that.
To see what Firefox's User-Agent is, use http://whatsmyuseragent.com/

Cheers,
Chris
--
Disclaimer: This is not meant to in any way endorse violating AUPs.
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bret.clement at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 17:18:18 2010
From: bret.clement at gmail.com (Bret)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:18:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ActiveState/O'Reilly Launch New and Improved Code Share Site (Python)
Message-ID: <e2d6d01a-6670-4908-8391-65d27d1a10bd@t9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

ActiveState launched today the new code.activestate.com with code
recipes for dynamic languages such as Python, Perl and Tcl and web
development. This site is great recipe sharing site for all Python,
Perl and Tcl developers.

O'Reilly will be use recipes from the site for its next Python cook
book.

Bit.ly link to the blog announcement:
http://bit.ly/b1Wkdm


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Feb 19 18:02:34 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:02:34 +0000
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> was blocking me because of many automated logins.

Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by 
your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.

>
> However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.

As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.

>
> The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> on any site.

Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are 
aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those 
settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by 
a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically 
get an IP address).

> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Matt

Google a bit around how you can figure out (from inside your script) 
whether your used platform has a proxy configured and how to use it with 
your application.

Good luck!

-- 
mph


From jg07024 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 18:16:35 2010
From: jg07024 at gmail.com (John Graves)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:16:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PyConPads at PyCon 2010 in Atlanta
Message-ID: <31a94d5f-1304-46fa-9f1b-a4a68b07f6c9@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Couldn't make it to PyCon 2010 in person?  Want to access
collaborative notes taken there?

Watch the short video at http://bit.ly/dgBcpA to see how to find live
notes being taken at the conference on PyConPads. You can chat with --
and thank! -- the note takers.

The site: http://pyconpads.net
Twitter announcements of pads: http://twitter.com/pyconpads


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 18:18:14 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:18:14 +0000
Subject: Question about getmtime
In-Reply-To: <2f56a4b1-4f2b-4ec9-827b-e6d4e5d52f7d@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <81c5582a-f30d-4ca6-a5cf-c8a7bd086ac0@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2795.1266602798.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<2f56a4b1-4f2b-4ec9-827b-e6d4e5d52f7d@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F1C36.4030906@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Sean DiZazzo wrote:
> On Feb 19, 10:06 am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> Brandon wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> Does copying or moving a file affect the return value of
>>> os.path.getmtime(path)?
>> The modification time of a copied file should be the same as the
>> original.
>>
>> The creation time of a copied file will be the time at which it was
>> copied, so that can result in the paradoxical state of a file having
>> been modified _before_ it was created! :-)
> 
> ctime does not stand for creation time.  I went through this a couple
> of months ago.  It's updated whenever the inode is updated, so
> changing permissions, among other things will update it.
> 
> It blew me away when I finally found this out.
> 
On Windows ctime doesn't change when the file permissions are changed.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Feb 19 18:36:50 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:36:50 -0800
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:

> In reference to the several comments about "[x for x in read] is basically
> a copy of the entire list. This isn't necessary." or list(read). I had
> thought I had a problem with having iterators in the takewhile() statement.
> I thought I testes and it didn't work. It seems I was wrong. It clearly
> works. I'll make this change and see if it is any better.
>
> I actually don't plan to read them all in at once, only as needed, but I do
> need the whole file in an array to perform some mathematics on them and
> compare different files. So my interest was in making it faster to open them
> as needed. I guess part of it is that they are about 5mb so I guess it might
> be disk speed in part.nks
>
>

Record your numbers in an array and then work your magic on them later.
Don't store the entire file in memory, though.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 19 19:15:07 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Feb 2010 16:15:07 -0800
Subject: How to use python to register a service (an existing .exe file)
References: <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <hln9ib$dp4$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b79e28c$0$4610$426a74cc at news.free.fr>,
News123  <news123 at free.fr> wrote:

>Is there a python way to register new windows services.
>
>I am aware of the
>instsrv.exe program, which can be used to install services.
>I could use subprocess.Popen to call
>
>instsrv.exe "service_name" program.exe
>
>but wondered, whether there's already an existing function.

Use the win32 package.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"At Resolver we've found it useful to short-circuit any doubt and just        
refer to comments in code as 'lies'. :-)"


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 19:20:53 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 6:02?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
wrote:
> On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
>
> > Hey all,
>
> > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by
> your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.
>
>
>
> > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.
>
>
>
> > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> > on any site.
>
> Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are
> aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
> settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by
> a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically
> get an IP address).
>
> > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> > Matt
>
> Google a bit around how you can figure out (from inside your script)
> whether your used platform has a proxy configured and how to use it with
> your application.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --
> mph

Hey all,

I've used httpfox to identify the precise headers being sent by
firefox, and then added them to my program using br.addheaders(), as
per the proper mechanize syntax. No dice. (In fact, these headers were
in the program when I ran it successfully from my friend's computer at
his apartment). So I'm pretty sure it's not a header issue.

I'll check and see whether firefox and my system are using a proxy.

Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
programming noob. I am not doing anything that I can't do myself from
firefox (ie, I have an account at the school, and am allowed to sign
on with my name and password and look up information in the student
directory). If I do it for more than one student, it just becomes
repetitive, so I thought this was a first modest goal in learning to
do some programming.)

That said, I'm happy to discontinue the attempts, but I'd like to know
how it is that my computer (unless using firefox) is completely
blocked from opening urls from within python. (And how to fix it).

Thanks for the continued help.


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 20:06:45 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 7:20?pm, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 6:02?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
>
> > > Hey all,
>
> > > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> > > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> > > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> > > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> > > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> > Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by
> > your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.
>
> > > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> > > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> > > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> > > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> > > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> > As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.
>
> > > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> > > on any site.
>
> > Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are
> > aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
> > settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by
> > a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically
> > get an IP address).
>
> > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> > > Matt
>
> > Google a bit around how you can figure out (from inside your script)
> > whether your used platform has a proxy configured and how to use it with
> > your application.
>
> > Good luck!
>
> > --
> > mph
>
> Hey all,
>
> I've used httpfox to identify the precise headers being sent by
> firefox, and then added them to my program using br.addheaders(), as
> per the proper mechanize syntax. No dice. (In fact, these headers were
> in the program when I ran it successfully from my friend's computer at
> his apartment). So I'm pretty sure it's not a header issue.
>
> I'll check and see whether firefox and my system are using a proxy.
>
> Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
> that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
> programming noob. I am not doing anything that I can't do myself from
> firefox (ie, I have an account at the school, and am allowed to sign
> on with my name and password and look up information in the student
> directory). If I do it for more than one student, it just becomes
> repetitive, so I thought this was a first modest goal in learning to
> do some programming.)
>
> That said, I'm happy to discontinue the attempts, but I'd like to know
> how it is that my computer (unless using firefox) is completely
> blocked from opening urls from within python. (And how to fix it).
>
> Thanks for the continued help.

Breakthrough:

I tried switching from a wireless connection to my router, and instead
used an ethernet connection -- and now everything works.

Why would this make a difference? MAC address? Is it possible for an
external server to see my MAC address and block it? Clearly wasn't an
IP address issue!



From livingstonemark at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 20:15:33 2010
From: livingstonemark at gmail.com (Mark Livingstone)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:15:33 +1000
Subject: Looking for crossfold validation code
Message-ID: <d9183eda1002191715x2a9c19dr9715e6fe7a137f9c@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am doing research as part of a Uni research Scholarship into using
data compression for classification. What I am looking for is python
code to handle the crossfold validation side of things for me - that
will take my testing / training corpus and create the testing /
training files after asking me for number of folds and number of times
(or maybe allow me to enter a random seed or offset instead of times.)
I could then either hook my classifier into the program or use it in a
separate step.

Probably not very hard to write, but why reinvent the wheel ;-)

Thanks in advance,

MarkL


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 19 20:28:04 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:28:04 -0800
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002191728i698a919cgc2e2d3286a5d918c@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:06 PM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 7:20?pm, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 19, 6:02?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
>> wrote:
>> > On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
>> > > Hey all,
>>
>> > > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
>> > > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>>
>> > > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
>> > > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
>> > > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>>
>> > Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by
>> > your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.
>>
>> > > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
>> > > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
>> > > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
>> > > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
>> > > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>>
>> > As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.
>>
>> > > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
>> > > on any site.
>>
>> > Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are
>> > aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
>> > settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by
>> > a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically
>> > get an IP address).
>>
>> > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
<snip>
> Breakthrough:
>
> I tried switching from a wireless connection to my router, and instead
> used an ethernet connection -- and now everything works.
>
> Why would this make a difference? MAC address? Is it possible for an
> external server to see my MAC address and block it? Clearly wasn't an
> IP address issue!

If you're using the campus network and depending on the exact network
details, yes, they very likely can know your MAC address and thus
block it.
Since your Wi-Fi card and Ethernet card have different hardware MAC
addresses, yes, switching would change your visible MAC address, thus
circumventing any blocks based on it.

Cheers,
Chris
--
Hi ACMS!
http://blog.rebertia.com


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:25:40 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:55:40 +0530
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>

In the following code sample :


def dirname(p):

    """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
    i = p.rfind('/') + 1

    head = p[:i]
    if head and head != '/'*len(head):

        head = head.rstrip('/')

    return head

def dirname1(p):
   i = p.rfind('/') + 1

   head = p[:i]
   if head != '/':

        return head.rstrip('/')
   return head




if __name__ == "__main__":
   p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'

   p2 = './'
   p3 = '/'
   p4 = '.'

   print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)

   print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)

   print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)

   print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)


OUTPUT:

/Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
. .
/ /


dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i did
not quite understood the usage of "if head and head != '/'*len(head):"
and replaced it with more obvious way in dirname1().

Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed any
edge cases here ?

Regards,
~l0nwlf
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From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:32:59 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:32:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 8:28?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:06 PM, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 19, 7:20?pm, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 19, 6:02?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
> >> > > Hey all,
>
> >> > > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> >> > > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using mechanize.
>
> >> > > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website, returning
> >> > > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's server
> >> > > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
>
> >> > Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed by
> >> > your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of it.
>
> >> > > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> >> > > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> >> > > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place (who
> >> > > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice, constant
> >> > > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
>
> >> > As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy gateway.
>
> >> > > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works flawlessly
> >> > > on any site.
>
> >> > Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications are
> >> > aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
> >> > settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy by
> >> > a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you automatically
> >> > get an IP address).
>
> >> > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> <snip>
> > Breakthrough:
>
> > I tried switching from a wireless connection to my router, and instead
> > used an ethernet connection -- and now everything works.
>
> > Why would this make a difference? MAC address? Is it possible for an
> > external server to see my MAC address and block it? Clearly wasn't an
> > IP address issue!
>
> If you're using the campus network and depending on the exact network
> details, yes, they very likely can know your MAC address and thus
> block it.
> Since your Wi-Fi card and Ethernet card have different hardware MAC
> addresses, yes, switching would change your visible MAC address, thus
> circumventing any blocks based on it.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> Hi ACMS!http://blog.rebertia.com

Chris,

I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
wireless router at his apartment.

So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
blocked, right?

But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
wireless?


From shearichard at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:39:57 2010
From: shearichard at gmail.com (northof40)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:39:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Capturing errors raised by other scripts ?
Message-ID: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

I'm using the subroutine module to run run python script A.py from
B.py (this is on windows fwiw).

A.py is not my script and it may raise arbitary errors before exiting.
How can I determine what's happened before A.py exited ?

To simulate this I've got this script (which is meant to simulate
A.py):

class customError(Exception):
	def __init__(self, value):
		self.value = value
	def __str__(self):
		return repr(self.value)

try:
	raise customError(2*2)
except customError as e:
	print 'Custom exception occurred, value:', e.value


I then run my A.py like this :

>>> fdOut, fOut = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AOut-')
>>> fdErr, fErr = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AErr-')
>>> try:
...     pathtojob="python.exe A.py"
...     p = subprocess.Popen(pathtojob, stderr=fdErr, stdout=fdOut)
... except:
...     print "bad stuff happened"
...

When I do this I the exception handler is not fired and the text
"Custom exception occurred, value: 4" ends up in the stdout file.

I'd really like it to end up in stderr because then I could say
"anything in stderr ? then ignore the output and flag an error".

I don't want to have to parse the stdout for error like messages and I
can't make changes to A.py.

I'm sure there's a better way to do this - can anyone offer some
advice ?

thanks

Richard.



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 21:55:23 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:25:23 +0530
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002191855h19dc913du8db3790a7c724162@mail.gmail.com>

try this :

>>> url = 'http://www.google.com'
>>> proxy = {'http': 'http://username:password at proxy:port'}
>>> content = urllib.urlopen(url, proxies = proxy).read()

Hopefully it should run without error.

Second approach can be to check whether your environment variables are
setup. $set will show you. If not the case set up your environment variable.

HTH,

~l0nwlf


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:02 AM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 19, 8:28 pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 5:06 PM, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 19, 7:20 pm, MattB <mattbar... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Feb 19, 6:02 pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hell... at dcuktec.org>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > On 02/19/10 21:48, MattB wrote:
> > >> > > Hey all,
> >
> > >> > > I've been working on a program that accesses my school's password
> > >> > > protected website and downloads directory names. I'm using
> mechanize.
> >
> > >> > > Recently, the program has been unable to open the website,
> returning
> > >> > > the 'errno 61 connection refused' error. I presume the school's
> server
> > >> > > was blocking me because of many automated logins.
> >
> > >> > Being a former school BOFH, I can assure you that if I was annoyed
> by
> > >> > your 'misuse' I would have tracked you down and made you aware of
> it.
> >
> > >> > > However, it turns out that I cannot now open ANY url from within
> > >> > > Python on my computer using mechanize (or urllib for that matter).
> > >> > > And I've tried in several places -- my place, a friend's place
> (who
> > >> > > also has comcast as an ISP) and the school -- but no dice,
> constant
> > >> > > errno 61's whenever I try to open a url.
> >
> > >> > As mentioned by Jonathan Gardener, this is most likely a proxy
> gateway.
> >
> > >> > > The strangest thing about this is that firefox still works
> flawlessly
> > >> > > on any site.
> >
> > >> > Your system might have been centrally configure so that applications
> are
> > >> > aware of the proxy, firefox probably has been piggybacking on those
> > >> > settings (as it should). Most platforms can be made aware of a proxy
> by
> > >> > a DHCP option send by the DHCP server (that is when you
> automatically
> > >> > get an IP address).
> >
> > >> > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> > <snip>
> > > Breakthrough:
> >
> > > I tried switching from a wireless connection to my router, and instead
> > > used an ethernet connection -- and now everything works.
> >
> > > Why would this make a difference? MAC address? Is it possible for an
> > > external server to see my MAC address and block it? Clearly wasn't an
> > > IP address issue!
> >
> > If you're using the campus network and depending on the exact network
> > details, yes, they very likely can know your MAC address and thus
> > block it.
> > Since your Wi-Fi card and Ethernet card have different hardware MAC
> > addresses, yes, switching would change your visible MAC address, thus
> > circumventing any blocks based on it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > --
> > Hi ACMS!http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> Chris,
>
> I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
> Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
> by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
> wireless router at his apartment.
>
> So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
> blocked, right?
>
> But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
> school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
> wireless?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 22:05:43 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:05:43 +0000
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> In the following code sample :
> 
> def dirname(p):
> 
>     """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
>     i = p.rfind('/') + 1
> 
>     head = p[:i]
>     if head and head != '/'*len(head):
> 
>         head = head.rstrip('/')
> 
>     return head
> 
> def dirname1(p):
>    i = p.rfind('/') + 1
> 
>    head = p[:i]
>    if head != '/':
> 
>         return head.rstrip('/')    
>    return head
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'
> 
>    p2 = './'
>    p3 = '/'
>    p4 = '.'
> 
>    print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)
> 
>    print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)
> 
>    print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)
> 
>    print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)
> 
> OUTPUT:
> 
> /Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
> . .
> / /
> 
> dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i did not quite understood the usage of "if head and head != '/'*len(head):" and replaced it with more obvious way in dirname1().
> 
> Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed any edge cases here ?
> 
What if the path is '//x'? The current dirname would return '//',
whereas dirname1 would return ''.


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 22:09:05 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:39:05 +0530
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com>

But this is posixpath, right ? So '//x' like path will not occur as far as I
guess ?

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:35 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> In the following code sample :
>>
>> def dirname(p):
>>
>>    """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
>>    i = p.rfind('/') + 1
>>
>>    head = p[:i]
>>    if head and head != '/'*len(head):
>>
>>        head = head.rstrip('/')
>>
>>    return head
>>
>> def dirname1(p):
>>   i = p.rfind('/') + 1
>>
>>   head = p[:i]
>>   if head != '/':
>>
>>        return head.rstrip('/')       return head
>>
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>   p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'
>>
>>   p2 = './'
>>   p3 = '/'
>>   p4 = '.'
>>
>>   print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)
>>
>>   print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)
>>
>>   print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)
>>
>>   print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)
>>
>> OUTPUT:
>>
>> /Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
>> . .
>> / /
>>
>> dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i did not
>> quite understood the usage of "if head and head != '/'*len(head):" and
>> replaced it with more obvious way in dirname1().
>>
>> Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed any edge
>> cases here ?
>>
>>  What if the path is '//x'? The current dirname would return '//',
> whereas dirname1 would return ''.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 22:13:10 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:13:10 +0000
Subject: Capturing errors raised by other scripts ?
In-Reply-To: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F5346.9060308@mrabarnett.plus.com>

northof40 wrote:
> I'm using the subroutine module to run run python script A.py from
> B.py (this is on windows fwiw).
> 
> A.py is not my script and it may raise arbitary errors before exiting.
> How can I determine what's happened before A.py exited ?
> 
> To simulate this I've got this script (which is meant to simulate
> A.py):
> 
> class customError(Exception):
> 	def __init__(self, value):
> 		self.value = value
> 	def __str__(self):
> 		return repr(self.value)
> 
> try:
> 	raise customError(2*2)
> except customError as e:
> 	print 'Custom exception occurred, value:', e.value
> 
> 
> I then run my A.py like this :
> 
>>>> fdOut, fOut = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AOut-')
>>>> fdErr, fErr = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AErr-')
>>>> try:
> ...     pathtojob="python.exe A.py"
> ...     p = subprocess.Popen(pathtojob, stderr=fdErr, stdout=fdOut)
> ... except:
> ...     print "bad stuff happened"
> ...
> 
> When I do this I the exception handler is not fired and the text
> "Custom exception occurred, value: 4" ends up in the stdout file.
> 
> I'd really like it to end up in stderr because then I could say
> "anything in stderr ? then ignore the output and flag an error".
> 
> I don't want to have to parse the stdout for error like messages and I
> can't make changes to A.py.
> 
> I'm sure there's a better way to do this - can anyone offer some
> advice ?
> 
> thanks
> 
A.py is printing the error message.

The 'print' statement prints to stdout unless you direct it elsewhere
with '>>', for example:

     print >> my_file, 'message'

If you don't want error messages to go to stdout, then don't print them
to stdout, it's as simple as that!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 19 22:17:09 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:17:09 +0000
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> But this is posixpath, right ? So '//x' like path will not occur as far 
> as I guess ?
> 
Can you guarantee that? It's safer to just leave it as it is, just in
case! :-)

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:35 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com 
> <mailto:python at mrabarnett.plus.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Shashwat Anand wrote:
> 
>         In the following code sample :
> 
>         def dirname(p):
> 
>            """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
>            i = p.rfind('/') + 1
> 
>            head = p[:i]
>            if head and head != '/'*len(head):
> 
>                head = head.rstrip('/')
> 
>            return head
> 
>         def dirname1(p):
>           i = p.rfind('/') + 1
> 
>           head = p[:i]
>           if head != '/':
> 
>                return head.rstrip('/')       return head
> 
>         if __name__ == "__main__":
>           p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'
> 
>           p2 = './'
>           p3 = '/'
>           p4 = '.'
> 
>           print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)
> 
>           print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)
> 
>           print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)
> 
>           print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)
> 
>         OUTPUT:
> 
>         /Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
>         . .
>         / /
> 
>         dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i
>         did not quite understood the usage of "if head and head !=
>         '/'*len(head):" and replaced it with more obvious way in dirname1().
> 
>         Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed
>         any edge cases here ?
> 
>     What if the path is '//x'? The current dirname would return '//',
>     whereas dirname1 would return ''.
> 



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 22:21:00 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:51:00 +0530
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002191921w4dbe40c9s338796fa225a5bb5@mail.gmail.com>

basically I infer that : dirname = path - basename, like for path =  '//x',
basename = x, hence dirname = '//'

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:47 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> But this is posixpath, right ? So '//x' like path will not occur as far as
>> I guess ?
>>
>>  Can you guarantee that? It's safer to just leave it as it is, just in
> case! :-)
>
>
>  On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:35 AM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com<mailto:
>> python at mrabarnett.plus.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    Shashwat Anand wrote:
>>
>>        In the following code sample :
>>
>>        def dirname(p):
>>
>>           """Returns the directory component of a pathname"""
>>           i = p.rfind('/') + 1
>>
>>           head = p[:i]
>>           if head and head != '/'*len(head):
>>
>>               head = head.rstrip('/')
>>
>>           return head
>>
>>        def dirname1(p):
>>          i = p.rfind('/') + 1
>>
>>          head = p[:i]
>>          if head != '/':
>>
>>               return head.rstrip('/')       return head
>>
>>        if __name__ == "__main__":
>>          p1 = '/Users/l0nwlf/Desktop'
>>
>>          p2 = './'
>>          p3 = '/'
>>          p4 = '.'
>>
>>          print dirname(p1), dirname1(p1)
>>
>>          print dirname(p2), dirname1(p2)
>>
>>          print dirname(p3), dirname1(p3)
>>
>>          print dirname(p4), dirname1(p4)
>>
>>        OUTPUT:
>>
>>        /Users/l0nwlf /Users/l0nwlf
>>        . .
>>        / /
>>
>>        dirname() is a function taken from /Lib/posixpath.py. However i
>>        did not quite understood the usage of "if head and head !=
>>        '/'*len(head):" and replaced it with more obvious way in
>> dirname1().
>>
>>        Am I right to do so ? Is dirname1() more pythonic ? Did I missed
>>        any edge cases here ?
>>
>>    What if the path is '//x'? The current dirname would return '//',
>>    whereas dirname1 would return ''.
>>
>>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 19 22:33:57 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Feb 2010 03:33:57 GMT
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
Message-ID: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test 
into a class attribute, as follows:

class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
    target = mymodule.someclass

    def test_spam(self):
        """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
        self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))


It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:

class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
    target = mymodule.function

    def test_foo(self):
        self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')

The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not 
a standalone function, and I get errors like:

TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)

The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this 
class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I 
don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the 
function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather 
than just one.

Are there any better solutions?


-- 
Steven


From shearichard at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 22:39:23 2010
From: shearichard at gmail.com (northof40)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:39:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Capturing errors raised by other scripts ?
References: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2822.1266635587.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ddec8f68-25f4-4291-be60-4209da4b8d6d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 4:13?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> northof40 wrote:
> > I'm using the subroutine module to run run python script A.py from
> > B.py (this is on windows fwiw).
>
> > A.py is not my script and it may raise arbitary errors before exiting.
> > How can I determine what's happened before A.py exited ?
>
> > To simulate this I've got this script (which is meant to simulate
> > A.py):
>
> > class customError(Exception):
> > ? ?def __init__(self, value):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?self.value = value
> > ? ?def __str__(self):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?return repr(self.value)
>
> > try:
> > ? ?raise customError(2*2)
> > except customError as e:
> > ? ?print 'Custom exception occurred, value:', e.value
>
> > I then run my A.py like this :
>
> >>>> fdOut, fOut = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AOut-')
> >>>> fdErr, fErr = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AErr-')
> >>>> try:
> > ... ? ? pathtojob="python.exe A.py"
> > ... ? ? p = subprocess.Popen(pathtojob, stderr=fdErr, stdout=fdOut)
> > ... except:
> > ... ? ? print "bad stuff happened"
> > ...
>
> > When I do this I the exception handler is not fired and the text
> > "Custom exception occurred, value: 4" ends up in the stdout file.
>
> > I'd really like it to end up in stderr because then I could say
> > "anything in stderr ? then ignore the output and flag an error".
>
> > I don't want to have to parse the stdout for error like messages and I
> > can't make changes to A.py.
>
> > I'm sure there's a better way to do this - can anyone offer some
> > advice ?
>
> > thanks
>
> A.py is printing the error message.
>
> The 'print' statement prints to stdout unless you direct it elsewhere
> with '>>', for example:
>
> ? ? ?print >> my_file, 'message'
>
> If you don't want error messages to go to stdout, then don't print them
> to stdout, it's as simple as that!

Thanks for your reply. I take your point about print - perhaps I
hadn't really thought that through. Unfortunately I don't have control
of the real script that's being run so if the programmer of that
script has used print there's nothing I can do about it.

Perhaps I could modify the question. If A.py terminates due an
unhandled exception is there anyway for B.py to know that's happened
(without A.py's cooperation ?).

thanks

Richard.


If A.py terminates due to an unhandled exception


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:18:12 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:18:12 -0500
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
In-Reply-To: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002192018n6547a63ete67d99ab1f59a724@mail.gmail.com>

this is somewhat hackish:

In [1]: def test():
   ...:     print 'spam'
   ...:
   ...:

In [20]: class Ham():
   ....:     target = {'target': test}
   ....:     def test_eggs(self):
   ....:         self.target['target']()
   ....:
   ....:

In [21]: h = Ham()

In [22]: h.test_eggs()
spam


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test
> into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
>    target = mymodule.someclass
>
>    def test_spam(self):
>        """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
>        self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
>    target = mymodule.function
>
>    def test_foo(self):
>        self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
>
> The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not
> a standalone function, and I get errors like:
>
> TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
>
> The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this
> class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I
> don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the
> function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather
> than just one.
>
> Are there any better solutions?
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:37:56 2010
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:37:56 +1100
Subject: Trouble running pywin32-214.win-amd64-py3.1 on 64-bit Windows
 7
In-Reply-To: <5cf1aff91002191035o7c65df3bjfb4f26805923ea0d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5cf1aff91002191035o7c65df3bjfb4f26805923ea0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B7F6724.5070505@gmail.com>

On 20/02/2010 5:35 AM, Steven Cohen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I downloaded pywin32-214.win-amd64-py3.1, and it installs just fine
> (except that it prints a traceback when it tells me the postinstall
> script completed), but then when I try to execute Pythonwin.exe, I get
> the following error popup:
>
> The application can not locate win32ui.pyd (or Python) (126)
> The specified module could not be found
>
> However, the file win32ui.pyd is right there in the same directory from
> which I am executing Pythonwin.exe.  Can anyone help me figure out what
> I am doing wrong here?

The pywin32 post-install script seems to break with the current Python 
3.1 builds, and as a result, the pywin32 DLLs were probably not copied 
correctly.

Try re-executing the post install script by:

* Start a command-prompt by right-clicking on the shortcut and selecting 
'Run as Administrator'.

* Execute '\python31\python.exe \python31\scripts\pywin32_postinstall.py 
-install' (changing the paths as necessary).

It should succeed as it is running from a console, and you might find 
that fixes things.

HTH,

Mark


From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:55:15 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:55:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <65accaff-ab29-4dd4-9995-4ec60a034b56@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 4:28?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 20:32 -0800, CM wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 7:19 pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > > > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > > > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > > > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > > > example, via HTTP/HTTPS). ? Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > > > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.). ?What would
> > > > be the best way to go about doing this?
>
> > > I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> > > you might find it useful:
>
> > > ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
>
> > This looks pretty interesting and useful.
>
> Thanks :-)
>
> > Just to help me understand it a bit more: ?what is it that users will
> > download from some web page in order to initially get the py2exe'd app
> > on their system? ?Is it "really" an "esky", with the app's .exe file
> > inside it (but the esky is named the same as the app)?
>
> Currently, it's just a zip file with the frozen app in it, which the
> user unzips to wherever they want the app. ?When unzipped it looks like
> this:
>
> ? ?myapp.exe ?<-- actually the esky bootstrap exe
> ? ?myapp-X.Y.Z.win32/
> ? ? ? ?myapp.exe ?<-- the actual frozen app as produced by py2exe
> ? ? ? ?python26.dll
> ? ? ? ?...etc...
>
> This could easily be wrapped in an installer - the important thing is
> just that the files end up on the user's machine in the expected
> directory structure.
>
> > ? And then when
> > they want to update, the app's code calls the esky class to do the
> > work of swapping out the appropriate .exe file? ?Something like this?
>
> Yes. ?The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
> application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
> executable file. ?As long as you don't change python versions, this
> allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
> without atomic file replacement.
>
> So the frozen app does this in a background thread:
>
> ? ?Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()
>
> And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
> unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory. ?Et
> viola, your app is at the latest version.
>
> From the packager's point of view, you run the "bdist_esky" distutils
> command to generate the zipfile containing your latest version, then
> simply upload it to your server.
>
> > Would this also work if one used InnoSetup to install the exe on the
> > user's system?
>
> Yes, absolutely - in fact I plan to do this myself at some stage. ?All
> that's required is that the files end up in the expected directory
> structure.
>
> ? ?Ryan

Wow, it sounds great.  Good luck with moving forward with it.  I'm not
quite ready to release any apps, but as (if?) I come up on that, and
if I plan on updating them, I would love to make use of Esky.  Thanks
for doing this. :D

Che


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 19 23:55:56 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:55:56 +1100
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87r5og8q03.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> I have a convention when writing unit tests

Incidentally, you may be interested in the specific forum for testing in
Python <URL:http://lists.idyll.org/listinfo/testing-in-python> that is a
good resource for asking questions like this.

> to put the target of the test into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.someclass
>
>     def test_spam(self):
>         """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
>         self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.function
>
>     def test_foo(self):
>         self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')

I think this is because you're binding the ?target? attribute at the
class definition, binding it to that class.

Instead, this smells like something that should be a fixture for each
test case::

    class SomeClassTestCase(unittest.TestCase):

        def setUp(self):
            """ Set up test fixtures. """
            self.target = mymodule.SomeClass

        def test_has_spam(self):
            """ Should have a spam attribute. """
            self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))

        def test_has_no_bacon(self):
            """ Should not have a bacon attribute. """
            self.failIf(hasattr(self.target, 'bacon'))


    class SomeFunctionTest(unittest.TestCase):

        def setUp(self):
            """ Set up test fixtures. """
            self.target = mymodule.some_function

        def test_a_b_input_returns_foo(self):
            """ Should return 'foo' from 'a', 'b' inputs. """
            self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')

        def test_c_d_input_raises_valueerror(self):
            """ Should raise ValueError from 'c', 'd' inputs. """
            self.assertRaises(
                ValueError,
                self.target, 'c', 'd')

-- 
 \        ?A free press is one where it's okay to state the conclusion |
  `\                      you're led to by the evidence.? ?Bill Moyers |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 23:59:55 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:59:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <f439ee65-8a7f-4add-8c29-b60877b45eb5@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 4:42?pm, "W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> On 2/19/2010 10:56 AM, CM wrote:
>
> > On Feb 19, 12:21 pm, "W. eWatson"<wolftra... at invalid.com> ?wrote:
> >> On 2/19/2010 7:16 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:> ?Andre Engels wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Mark Lawrence
> >>>> <breamore... at yahoo.co.uk> ?wrote:
> >>>>> Andre Engels wrote:
> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM, W. eWatson<wolftra... at invalid.com>
>
> >> ...
> >> tories, or even the whole hard drive, for snowball.*. Then the OP> ?would know exactly what he has or hasn't got.
>
> >>> HTH.
>
> >>> Mark Lawrence
>
> >> Here's the answer. Consider this folder.
>
> >> Afolder
> >> ? ? abc.py
> >> ? ? hello.py
>
> >> I now apply py2exe steps to produce an ?"executable" for abc. The folder
> >> now changes to
>
> >> Afolder
> >> ? ? build
> >> ? ? dist
> >> ? ? abc.py
> >> ? ? hello.py
>
> >> build are two new folders. dist contains abc.exe.
>
> >> Somehow when I type abc at the command prompt, this follows a path to
> >> dist, and finds abc.exe, where it executes properly.
> >> Cute, eh? I have no explanation for it.
>
> > Are you sure it's executing abc.exe? ?If you are at a Python command
> > prompt within the "DOS shell" and you just type just abc, I think what
> > is happening is you are running abc.py, NOT abc.exe.
>
> > py2exe creates a dist folder (short for "distributables") by default
> > and puts your .exe into it along with whatever other files are needed
> > to run your application. ?Depending on how you set the bundling
> > options, this may be a lot of things or just 1-2 other things.
>
> > Che
>
> Well, you are right. What proof do I have? In fact, I just tried to run
> a program that was not converted, and left off py. It worked.
>
> So maybe the only way to execute the compiled code is to to to dist?

Not sure about that last question, but just try double-clicking on
the .exe file in dist and your app should run.  In fact, copy that
dist folder to a flash drive, plug it into another computer that
doesn't have Python installed on it, and doubleclick it again--it'll
run again.  In fact, depending on how you bundled it, you might need
only the .exe file on many computers that have the Windows dlls
already available.

Che


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 00:26:46 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:26:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <17d79b9e-0f06-4885-bb52-9cc06312f403@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

"W. eWatson" <wolftra... at invalid.com> wrote:
> So maybe the only way to execute the compiled code is to [g]o to dist?

Or the compiled code needs to be in a folder that's higher in your
path settings than the python file.

But yes, moving into the dist directory, or running 'dist/snowball'
from the project root will do the trick.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 00:38:31 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:38:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com> 
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<17d79b9e-0f06-4885-bb52-9cc06312f403@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85adff5e-fc5e-4296-9408-b44f4b3dc207@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 3:26?pm, alex23 <wuwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> or running 'dist/snowball'

That should, of course, be: 'dist\snowball' :)


From keekychen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 00:38:47 2010
From: keekychen at gmail.com (Kee K Y CHEN)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:38:47 +0800
Subject: Can I embedding a (python) console on python program?
Message-ID: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>

HI All,

Apologize for being a newbie to python area and sorry for my English. 

Actually what I need is embedding a python interactive console(or other
shell console alike module) on my python program for debugging and
controlling purpose during the program runtime. 

For example, print/set some important value, query some runtime status
when I remote login to host via telnet/ssh when the program running on
the host. One of the idea is I can write the program use the GUI tech,
but that is not fit for someone use a text based session.

In summary, in my scheme, it should something looks like the GEdit
extension - python console and but may interactive with tty/vty lines.

Can anyone give a brief to me? 

Thanks in advance.  

-- 
Kee K Y CHEN <keekychen at gmail.com>



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 00:53:00 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:23:00 +0530
Subject: Can I embedding a (python) console on python program?
In-Reply-To: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>
References: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002192153t5c510dcek9a3b7aef996be4da@mail.gmail.com>

I am not sure what you are looking for, but you can try looking at 'cmd
module'

~l0nwlf

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Kee K Y CHEN <keekychen at gmail.com> wrote:

> HI All,
>
> Apologize for being a newbie to python area and sorry for my English.
>
> Actually what I need is embedding a python interactive console(or other
> shell console alike module) on my python program for debugging and
> controlling purpose during the program runtime.
>
> For example, print/set some important value, query some runtime status
> when I remote login to host via telnet/ssh when the program running on
> the host. One of the idea is I can write the program use the GUI tech,
> but that is not fit for someone use a text based session.
>
> In summary, in my scheme, it should something looks like the GEdit
> extension - python console and but may interactive with tty/vty lines.
>
> Can anyone give a brief to me?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> Kee K Y CHEN <keekychen at gmail.com>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Sat Feb 20 01:28:17 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:28:17 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87eikjcuzk.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlnve2$fjt$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <87eikjcuzk.fsf at benfinney.id.au>, Ben Finney wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
> 
>> In message <hlhdsi$2pn$1 at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
>>
>> > Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
>>
>> Is this a function?
>>
>>     lambda : None
>>
>> What about this?
>>
>>     lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")
> 
> They are both lambda forms in Python. As a Python expression, they
> evaluate to (they ?return?) a function object.

So there is no distinction between functions and procedures, then?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Sat Feb 20 01:29:20 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:29:20 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.18.01.39.04@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-b232026241c6@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlnvg1$fjt$4@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <84166541-c10a-47b5-ae5b-
b232026241c6 at q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Steve Howell wrote:

> Some people make the definition of function more restrictive--"if it
> has side effects, it is not a function."

Does changing the contents of CPU cache count as a side-effect?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Sat Feb 20 01:30:26 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:30:26 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst>
Message-ID: <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:

> In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
> no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
> procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
> an explicit return value it returns None.

If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should 
it distinguish between statements and expressions?


From krishna.k.0001 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 01:36:28 2010
From: krishna.k.0001 at gmail.com (krishna)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:36:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Scalable python dict {'key_is_a_string': [count, some_val]}
Message-ID: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I have to manage a couple of dicts with huge dataset (larger than
feasible with the memory on my system), it basically has a key which
is a string (actually a tuple converted to a string) and a two item
list as value, with one element in the list being a count related to
the key. I have to at the end sort this dictionary by the count.

The platform is linux. I am planning to implement it by setting a
threshold beyond which I write the data into files (3 columns: 'key
count some_val' ) and later merge those files (I plan to sort the
individual files by the key column and walk through the files with one
pointer per file and merge them; I would add up the counts when
entries from two files match by key) and sorting using the 'sort'
command. Thus the bottleneck is the 'sort' command.

Any suggestions, comments?

By the way, is there a linux command that does the merging part?

Thanks,
Krishna




From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb 20 01:47:41 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:47:41 -0800
Subject: Scalable python dict {'key_is_a_string': [count, some_val]}
References: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xzl34pfn6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

krishna <krishna.k.0001 at gmail.com> writes:
> entries from two files match by key) and sorting using the 'sort'
> command. Thus the bottleneck is the 'sort' command.

That is a good approach.   The sort command is highly optimized and will
beat any Python program that does something comparable.  Set LC_ALL=C if
the file is all ascii, since that will bypass a lot of slow Unicode
conversion and make sorting go even faster.

> By the way, is there a linux command that does the merging part?

sort -m

Note that the sort command already does external sorting, so if you
can just write out one large file and sort it, instead of sorting and
then merging a bunch of smaller files, that may simplify your task.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Feb 20 02:02:18 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:02:18 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87eikjcuzk.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hlnve2$fjt$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87eikg8k5h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> So there is no distinction between functions and procedures, then?

In Python, no.

-- 
 \         ?When we pray to God we must be seeking nothing ? nothing.? |
  `\                                          ?Saint Francis of Assisi |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:02:41 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:02:41 +1100
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7f892c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 13:32, MattB wrote:
> 
> I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
> Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
> by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
> wireless router at his apartment.
> 
> So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
> blocked, right?
> 
> But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
> school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
> wireless?

MAC or IP blocking can't be the reason, as the OP stated, he can use
Firefox just fine.

Can you access, say, http://www.google.com from urllib or mechanize?

If you can't access *any website* using urllib/mechanize but you can
with a browser and you're on a unix-based machine, you probably have the
same problem as I used to have. Check whether you used the same hostname
in /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts (or wherever your distro saves
its hostname configurations, I use Gentoo); after editing those files
reboot (there are ways to avoid reboot, but rebooting guarantees the
conf file is reread).

Check the hostname by running this python script:

import socket
hn = socket.gethostname()
print hn
print socket.gethostbyname(hn) # should be 127.0.0.1


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Feb 20 02:04:00 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:04:00 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87aav48k2n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why
> should it distinguish between statements and expressions?

I don't see the connection between those two predicates. Why does the
former matter when determining the ?should? of the latter?

-- 
 \        ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?Wuh, I think |
  `\   so, Brain, but wouldn't anything lose its flavor on the bedpost |
_o__)                               overnight?? ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 20 02:12:55 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:12:55 -0500
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <87aav48k2n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> <87aav48k2n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hlo23b$kiu$1@ger.gmane.org>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
> 
>> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why
>> should it distinguish between statements and expressions?
> 
> I don't see the connection between those two predicates. Why does the
> former matter when determining the ?should? of the latter?
> 
Because s similar dichotomy exists between the two pairs.

Procedure <= function not returning a value
Statement <= expression not returning a value

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 02:13:36 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:13:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <4b7bc991$0$4242$426a34cc@news.free.fr> 
	<hlhdsi$2pn$1@theodyn.ncf.ca> <hlhrks$tc0$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<87eikjcuzk.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hlnve2$fjt$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <f1c5f4c9-a18f-4662-b4d4-ab26cb2b729c@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 1:28?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <87eikjcuzk.... at benfinney.id.au>, Ben Finney wrote:
>
>
>
> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>
> >> In message <hlhdsi$2p... at theodyn.ncf.ca>, cjw wrote:
>
> >> > Aren't lambda forms better described as function?
>
> >> Is this a function?
>
> >> ? ? lambda : None
>
> >> What about this?
>
> >> ? ? lambda : sys.stdout.write("hi there!\n")
>
> > They are both lambda forms in Python. As a Python expression, they
> > evaluate to (they ?return?) a function object.
>
> So there is no distinction between functions and procedures, then?

Not in most modern languages, no.  i think the major places they are
differentiated are in functional languages and in pre-1993ish
languages (give or take a few years), neither of which applies to
Python or Ruby.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:16:02 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:16:02 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 17:30, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
> 
>> In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
>> no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
>> procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
>> an explicit return value it returns None.
> 
> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should 
> it distinguish between statements and expressions?

There are non-trivial languages that have been made without procedures
and statements and non-trivial programs written on those languages.
There is technically no need for a lambda that supports statements;
someone could simply write a full-blown Monad framework and all of the
things required for IO Monad and all their syntax sugars up to near a
level of Haskell. Then we can do away with 'def's and all the statements
or make them syntax sugar for the Monads.

Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
then?


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sat Feb 20 02:16:40 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:16:40 +0100
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
In-Reply-To: <4B7EE0B0.5080605@ieee.org>
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2787.1266595786.28905.python-list@python.org>	<57835274-25f0-4dbe-96b7-7e2586c249db@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4B7EE0B0.5080605@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <hlo28n$kol$1@ger.gmane.org>

Dave Angel, 19.02.2010 20:04:
> In that case, consider using RemoveDesktop, which is built into both Xp
> and Vista.

Careful, sounds like malware to me.

Stefan



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 02:17:10 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:17:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 1:30?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
>
> > In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
> > no return value. ?The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
> > procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
> > an explicit return value it returns None.
>
> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should
> it distinguish between statements and expressions?

Because the latter are different in Python (and in Ruby, and in most
modern languages), while the former aren't distinguished in Python or
Ruby or most modern languages?  Primarily functional languages are the
main exception, but other than them it's pretty uncommon to find any
modern language that does distinguish procedures and functions, or one
that doesn't distinguished statements and expressions.

You can certainly find exceptions, but distinguishing statements and
expressions is absolutely commonplace in modern languages, and
distinguishing functions and procedures is in the minority.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:24:13 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:24:13 +1100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7f8e38$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 18:17, sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 20, 1:30 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
>>
>>> In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
>>> no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
>>> procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
>>> an explicit return value it returns None.
>>
>> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should
>> it distinguish between statements and expressions?
> 
> Because the latter are different in Python (and in Ruby, and in most
> modern languages), while the former aren't distinguished in Python or
> Ruby or most modern languages?  Primarily functional languages are the
> main exception, but other than them it's pretty uncommon to find any
> modern language that does distinguish procedures and functions, or one
> that doesn't distinguished statements and expressions.
> 
> You can certainly find exceptions, but distinguishing statements and
> expressions is absolutely commonplace in modern languages, and
> distinguishing functions and procedures is in the minority.

But it all boils down to "Although practicality beats purity."


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 02:27:56 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:27:56 -0800
Subject: Scalable python dict {'key_is_a_string': [count, some_val]}
In-Reply-To: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002192327v364fd099r242b97a6316f6051@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:36 PM, krishna <krishna.k.0001 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have to manage a couple of dicts with huge dataset (larger than
> feasible with the memory on my system), it basically has a key which
> is a string (actually a tuple converted to a string) and a two item
> list as value, with one element in the list being a count related to
> the key. I have to at the end sort this dictionary by the count.
>
> The platform is linux. I am planning to implement it by setting a
> threshold beyond which I write the data into files (3 columns: 'key
> count some_val' ) and later merge those files (I plan to sort the
> individual files by the key column and walk through the files with one
> pointer per file and merge them; I would add up the counts when
> entries from two files match by key) and sorting using the 'sort'
> command. Thus the bottleneck is the 'sort' command.
>
> Any suggestions, comments?
>

You should be using BDBs or even something like PostgreSQL. The
indexes there will give you the scalability you need. I doubt you will
be able to write anything that will select, update, insert or delete
data better than what BDBs and PostgreSQL can give you.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:30:21 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:30:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <827dad76-528c-4ae5-9935-88ac35a211a3@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 10:30?pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
>
> > In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it had
> > no return value. ?The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there are no
> > procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without supplying
> > an explicit return value it returns None.
>
> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should
> it distinguish between statements and expressions?

Because the real world works is more complex than simplified one-
sentence generalizations.


Carl Bnkas


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:33:30 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:33:30 +1100
Subject: Can I embedding a (python) console on python program?
In-Reply-To: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>
References: <1266644327.7846.21.camel@linux>
Message-ID: <4b7f9065$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 16:38, Kee K Y CHEN wrote:
> HI All,
> 
> Apologize for being a newbie to python area and sorry for my English. 
> 
> Actually what I need is embedding a python interactive console(or other
> shell console alike module) on my python program for debugging and
> controlling purpose during the program runtime. 
> 
> For example, print/set some important value, query some runtime status
> when I remote login to host via telnet/ssh when the program running on
> the host. One of the idea is I can write the program use the GUI tech,
> but that is not fit for someone use a text based session.
> 
> In summary, in my scheme, it should something looks like the GEdit
> extension - python console and but may interactive with tty/vty lines.
> 
> Can anyone give a brief to me? 
> 
> Thanks in advance.  

Look how IDLE and pdb does it. I believe the `cmd` built-in module is
specifically written for this case.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 02:36:10 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:36:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<87aav48k2n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<mailman.2828.1266650055.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ddd4f59a-d158-4291-a187-5397f8a4869b@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 11:12?pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>
> >> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why
> >> should it distinguish between statements and expressions?
>
> > I don't see the connection between those two predicates. Why does the
> > former matter when determining the ?should? of the latter?
>
> Because s similar dichotomy exists between the two pairs.
>
> Procedure <= function not returning a value
> Statement <= expression not returning a value

So if your language distinguishes between procedures and functions, it
manifestly has to distinguish between statements and expressions, but
there's no reason that the converse has to be true, expecially if an
expression is a legal statement.


Carl Banks


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 02:53:55 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:53:55 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002192353g5dec316flf34c8aaf14befe88@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
> then?
>

Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in
functional languages.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:04:22 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:04:22 +1100
Subject: Capturing errors raised by other scripts ?
In-Reply-To: <ddec8f68-25f4-4291-be60-4209da4b8d6d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9bf65c2-e4dd-4980-b00a-648cc5e8f8ba@a16g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2822.1266635587.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ddec8f68-25f4-4291-be60-4209da4b8d6d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b7f97a1$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 14:39, northof40 wrote:
> On Feb 20, 4:13 pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> northof40 wrote:
>>> I'm using the subroutine module to run run python script A.py from
>>> B.py (this is on windows fwiw).
>>
>>> A.py is not my script and it may raise arbitary errors before exiting.
>>> How can I determine what's happened before A.py exited ?
>>
>>> To simulate this I've got this script (which is meant to simulate
>>> A.py):
>>
>>> class customError(Exception):
>>>    def __init__(self, value):
>>>            self.value = value
>>>    def __str__(self):
>>>            return repr(self.value)
>>
>>> try:
>>>    raise customError(2*2)
>>> except customError as e:
>>>    print 'Custom exception occurred, value:', e.value
>>
>>> I then run my A.py like this :
>>
>>>>>> fdOut, fOut = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AOut-')
>>>>>> fdErr, fErr = tempfile.mkstemp(suffix='.txt', prefix='AErr-')
>>>>>> try:
>>> ...     pathtojob="python.exe A.py"
>>> ...     p = subprocess.Popen(pathtojob, stderr=fdErr, stdout=fdOut)
>>> ... except:
>>> ...     print "bad stuff happened"
>>> ...
>>
>>> When I do this I the exception handler is not fired and the text
>>> "Custom exception occurred, value: 4" ends up in the stdout file.



>>> I'd really like it to end up in stderr because then I could say
>>> "anything in stderr ? then ignore the output and flag an error".

Not really; not all that is written to stderr signifies errors per se.
Warning and Debugging info are often written to stderr as well.

> Thanks for your reply. I take your point about print - perhaps I
> hadn't really thought that through. Unfortunately I don't have control
> of the real script that's being run so if the programmer of that
> script has used print there's nothing I can do about it.

Tracebacks is almost always written to stderr, not stdout; unless the
programmer explicitly redirect the traceback into stdout.

> Perhaps I could modify the question. If A.py terminates due an
> unhandled exception is there anyway for B.py to know that's happened
> (without A.py's cooperation ?).

A well-behaved program will exit with status code 0; if and only if it
exited cleanly. I believe a python program that exited due to unhandled
exception always return non-zero status code.

However, if the program handled an error and called exit(0) explicitly
or the execution of the program falls to the end of the module; there is
no way to distinguish it from regular clean exit.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:12:48 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:12:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shared web host good citizenship question
Message-ID: <c9bfc235-1374-4dab-8f52-c987bf614116@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

Not specifically Python related but thought I'd ask.

If you have a low-bandwidth website running on a shared web hosting
service as a WSGI server (or FastCGI, or any other interface with its
own process), is it considered a responsible thing for the process to
exit on its own after a period of non-activity, or is that something
best left for the host to manage?

I'd guess that modern web hosts would prefer that processes stay
running, even if they go long periods without use, rather than having
to periodically restart processes.

Carl Banks


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:36:15 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7f892c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 2:02?am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/20/10 13:32, MattB wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
> > Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
> > by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
> > wireless router at his apartment.
>
> > So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
> > blocked, right?
>
> > But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
> > school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
> > wireless?
>
> MAC or IP blocking can't be the reason, as the OP stated, he can use
> Firefox just fine.
>
> Can you access, say,http://www.google.comfrom urllib or mechanize?
>
> If you can't access *any website* using urllib/mechanize but you can
> with a browser and you're on a unix-based machine, you probably have the
> same problem as I used to have. Check whether you used the same hostname
> in /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts (or wherever your distro saves
> its hostname configurations, I use Gentoo); after editing those files
> reboot (there are ways to avoid reboot, but rebooting guarantees the
> conf file is reread).
>
> Check the hostname by running this python script:
>
> import socket
> hn = socket.gethostname()
> print hn
> print socket.gethostbyname(hn) # should be 127.0.0.1

Lie,

Wow. Strangely, that script returned 192.168.1.106. However, in Snow
Leopard's airport settings, if I click on 'advanced' and then
'proxies', the default proxy for 'http' is 127.0.0.1:4444 (and in
these settings, the 'use proxy for http' is checked).

I just tried checking the unix files you mentioned. In etc/hosts, the
following info is displayed:

##
# Host Database
#
# localhost is used to configure the loopback interface
# when the system is booting.  Do not change this entry.
##


127.0.0.1	localhost
255.255.255.255	broadcasthost
::1             localhost
fe80::1%lo0	localhost

Also found a file called ntp-restrict.conf, containing:

# Access restrictions documented in ntp.conf(5) and
# http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/AccessRestrictions
# Limit network machines to time queries only

restrict default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict -6 default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery

# localhost is unrestricted
restrict 127.0.0.1
restrict -6 ::1

includefile /private/etc/ntp.conf

Not sure if these are what I'm looking for -- I'm new to unix so I may
need a bit more hand-holding here.

I appreciate your time and effort.

Matt


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 20 03:44:10 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:44:10 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002200044o263a1bd0wd53d364b3fb49ccb@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:17 PM, sjdevnull at yahoo.com
<sjdevnull at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 1:30?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why should
>> it distinguish between statements and expressions?
>
> Because the latter are different in Python (and in Ruby

I think your Ruby assertion needs fact-checking:

irb(main):001:0> a = 7  # assignments have a value
=> 7
irb(main):002:0> puts(b = 42)  # as further proof
42
=> nil
irb(main):003:0> b
=> 42
irb(main):004:0> c = [6,4,5]
=> [6, 4, 5]
irb(main):005:0> if false
irb(main):006:1>   c.reverse!
irb(main):007:1> else
irb(main):008:1*   c.sort!
irb(main):009:1> end  # even the if-else control structure has a value
=> [4, 5, 6]
irb(main):010:0> begin # same with exception handling
irb(main):011:1*    raise "a runtime error"
irb(main):012:1> rescue RuntimeError
irb(main):013:1>   "sounds bad"
irb(main):014:1> end
=> "sounds bad"
irb(main):015:0> def foo # and same with method bodies
irb(main):016:1>   99
irb(main):017:1> end
=> nil
irb(main):018:0> foo
=> 99

Quoth Wikipedia regarding Ruby (programming language):
"For practical purposes there is no distinction between expressions
and statements"

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 03:59:12 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:29:12 +0530
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7f892c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002200059h4f4822cfh4bf2160c698b2bc7@mail.gmail.com>

throw up your 'ifconfig' and mozilla-proxy output here. It seems you don't
know whether you are using proxy.
For mozilla proxy :
open mozilla -> cmd + "," -> Network -> Settings -> Paste everything that is
there/ may be take a snapshot and upload a link.

~l0nwlf


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 2:06 PM, MattB <mattbarkan at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 20, 2:02 am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 02/20/10 13:32, MattB wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
> > > Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
> > > by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
> > > wireless router at his apartment.
> >
> > > So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
> > > blocked, right?
> >
> > > But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
> > > school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
> > > wireless?
> >
> > MAC or IP blocking can't be the reason, as the OP stated, he can use
> > Firefox just fine.
> >
> > Can you access, say,http://www.google.comfrom urllib or mechanize?
> >
> > If you can't access *any website* using urllib/mechanize but you can
> > with a browser and you're on a unix-based machine, you probably have the
> > same problem as I used to have. Check whether you used the same hostname
> > in /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts (or wherever your distro saves
> > its hostname configurations, I use Gentoo); after editing those files
> > reboot (there are ways to avoid reboot, but rebooting guarantees the
> > conf file is reread).
> >
> > Check the hostname by running this python script:
> >
> > import socket
> > hn = socket.gethostname()
> > print hn
> > print socket.gethostbyname(hn) # should be 127.0.0.1
>
> Lie,
>
> Wow. Strangely, that script returned 192.168.1.106. However, in Snow
> Leopard's airport settings, if I click on 'advanced' and then
> 'proxies', the default proxy for 'http' is 127.0.0.1:4444 (and in
> these settings, the 'use proxy for http' is checked).
>
> I just tried checking the unix files you mentioned. In etc/hosts, the
> following info is displayed:
>
> ##
> # Host Database
> #
> # localhost is used to configure the loopback interface
> # when the system is booting.  Do not change this entry.
> ##
>
>
> 127.0.0.1       localhost
> 255.255.255.255 broadcasthost
> ::1             localhost
> fe80::1%lo0     localhost
>
> Also found a file called ntp-restrict.conf, containing:
>
> # Access restrictions documented in ntp.conf(5) and
> # http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/AccessRestrictions
> # Limit network machines to time queries only
>
> restrict default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
> restrict -6 default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
>
> # localhost is unrestricted
> restrict 127.0.0.1
> restrict -6 ::1
>
> includefile /private/etc/ntp.conf
>
> Not sure if these are what I'm looking for -- I'm new to unix so I may
> need a bit more hand-holding here.
>
> I appreciate your time and effort.
>
> Matt
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From sebastian.noack at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 05:36:04 2010
From: sebastian.noack at googlemail.com (Sebastian Noack)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:36:04 +0100
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
Message-ID: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka>

Hi,

I have a problem using os.pipe() together with os.fork(). Usually when
the writing end of the pipe is closed, the reading end gets EOF. So
subsequent attempts to read data will return an empty string. But when
you call os.fork() after you have created a pipe using os.pipe(), and
read data from the pipe in the child process, when the partent process
has already closed the writing end, the reading end does not get EOF.
Instead of the os.read() call in the child process is blocking.

I am using Linux, so I would like to know if this is a bug in Python or
just weird behaviour under Linux and if it is possible work around it.

Regards
Sebastian Noack


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

import os

def test_pipe_sync():
    pipe = os.pipe()

    os.write(pipe[1], 'Spam')
    os.close(pipe[1])

    print repr(os.read(pipe[0], 4))        # 'Spam' is printed.
    print repr(os.read(pipe[0], 4))        # '' is printed, because of EOF is reached.

def test_pipe_forked():
    pipe = os.pipe()
    pid  = os.fork()

    if pid:
        os.write(pipe[1], 'Spam')
        os.close(pipe[1])

        os.waitpid(pid, 0)
    else:
        print repr(os.read(pipe[0], 4))    # 'Spam' is printed.
        print repr(os.read(pipe[0], 4))    # Nothing is printed and os.read()
                                           # is blocking, eventhough the other
                                           # end of the pipe was closed.

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test_pipe_sync()

    print
    print '-' * 80
    print

    test_pipe_forked()
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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 06:00:34 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:00:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <f59eca17-d398-4fff-8273-0f1b2d2718f5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 20 Feb, 03:33, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test
> into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ? target = mymodule.someclass
>
> ? ? def test_spam(self):
> ? ? ? ? """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
> ? ? ? ? self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
> ? ? target = mymodule.function
>
> ? ? def test_foo(self):
> ? ? ? ? self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
>
> The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not
> a standalone function, and I get errors like:
>
> TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
>
> The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this
> class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I
> don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the
> function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather
> than just one.
>
> Are there any better solutions?
>
> --
> Steven

Why not define target in the TestCase.setUp() method?

class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):

    def setUp(self):
        self.target = mymodule.function

    def test_foo(self):
        self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')

--
Arnaud



class
--
Arnaud


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 06:03:47 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:03:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Scalable python dict {'key_is_a_string': [count, some_val]}
References: <4e44ed04-7175-470a-99cb-cf51a93ff5f4@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <cfa1af75-adb5-49d3-9450-582ca11bab9f@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 20 Feb, 06:36, krishna <krishna.k.0... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have to manage a couple of dicts with huge dataset (larger than
> feasible with the memory on my system), it basically has a key which
> is a string (actually a tuple converted to a string) and a two item
> list as value, with one element in the list being a count related to
> the key. I have to at the end sort this dictionary by the count.
>
> The platform is linux. I am planning to implement it by setting a
> threshold beyond which I write the data into files (3 columns: 'key
> count some_val' ) and later merge those files (I plan to sort the
> individual files by the key column and walk through the files with one
> pointer per file and merge them; I would add up the counts when
> entries from two files match by key) and sorting using the 'sort'
> command. Thus the bottleneck is the 'sort' command.
>
> Any suggestions, comments?
>
> By the way, is there a linux command that does the merging part?
>
> Thanks,
> Krishna

Have you looked here? http://docs.python.org/library/persistence.html

--
Arnaud


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 06:17:23 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:17:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue  in python
Message-ID: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone. I think it is  related to the precision with double
arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (https://
www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note : for
all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
Thank you.

__author__="Administrator"
__date__ ="$Feb 19, 2010 3:16:47 PM$"
import math
if __name__ == "__main__":
   n=int(raw_input())
   while(n>0):
       n-=1
       raw_input()
       l=raw_input();
       m=l.split(" ")
       N,K,L=int(m[0]),int(m[1]),int(m[2])
       fwd,bkd=1,1
       s_1,s_2="",""
       if(N<=200):
            for i in range(1,N+1):
                fwd=fwd*i;
            s=str(fwd)
            s_1=s[:K]
       else:
           d_1=(N*math.log(N)-N+0.5*math.log(2*math.pi*N)+(1/12/N)-
(1/360/pow(N,3))+(1/1260/pow(N,5))-(1/1680/pow(N,7))+(1/1188/pow(N,9))-
(691/2730/12/11/pow(N,11))+(7/6/14/13/pow(N,13)))*math.log10(math.e)
           d_2=d_1-int(d_1)+K-1
           fwd=pow(10,d_2)
           #print fwd
           fwd=int(fwd)
           s_1=str(fwd)

       if(N<=500):
           for i in range(1,N+1):
                bkd=bkd*i
                bkd=bkd%pow(10,L)
           if(bkd==0):
                s_2="0"*L
           else:
                s_2=str(bkd)
       else:
               s_2="0"*L

       print s_1+" "+s_2




From sebastian.noack at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 06:52:50 2010
From: sebastian.noack at googlemail.com (Sebastian Noack)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:52:50 +0100
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
In-Reply-To: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka>
References: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka>
Message-ID: <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka>

I have figured out that, you have to close the writing end in the child
process, which is reading from the pipe. Otherwise the underlying pipe
is not going to be closed when the parent process is closing its
writing end. This has nothing to do with Python itself. I have tried
plain C and there it is the same behaviour.

Regards
Sebastian Noack
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From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 07:44:12 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:44:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue in python
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 11:17?am, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello everyone. I think it is ?related to the precision with double
> arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (https://www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note : for
> all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
> in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
> issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
> Thank you.

If I understand you correctly, you're trying to compute the first k
digits in the decimal expansion of N!, with bounds of k <= 15 and 100
<= N < 10**8.  Is that right?

Python's floats simply don't give you enough precision for this:
you'd need to find the fractional part of log10(N!) with >= 15 digits
of precision.  But the integral part needs ~ log10(log10(N!)) digits,
so you end up needing to compute log10(N!) with at least 15 +
log10(log10(N!)) ~ 15 + log10(N) + log10(log10(N)) digits (plus a few
extra digits for safety);  so that's at least 25 digits needed for N
close to 10**8.

The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you allowed
imports?).  Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
integer arithmetic.

--
Mark


From sparks.m at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 09:13:06 2010
From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:13:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13616@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 4:15?pm, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
...
> ? ? def print_numbers()
> ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> ? ? ? ? }
> ? ? end

This strikes me as a terrible example. For example, this is
significantly clearer:
    def print_numbers()
        for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]:
            square, cube = n * n, n * n * n
            if square != 25 and cube != 64:
                print n

I /can/ see arguments for ruby style blocks in python, but not for
this sort of thing, or lisp style quoted expressions[1]. ie I can see
situations where you have more complex code in real life where they
will definitely simplify things.

[1] This is perhaps more appropriate because '(a b c) is equivalent
    to (quote a b c), and quote a b c can be viewed as close to
    python's expression "lambda: a b c"

However, I can also see that in simple situations - such as the
example you post - they will have a tendency to make code
significantly less clear/direct.

I suppose, if I have a choice between something (hard being possible &
simple code looking simple) and (hard things being simpler & simple
things looking harder), I'd probably personally choose the former.
This is not because I don't like hard things being simple, but because
I think that simple things are more common and making them look harder
is a mistake.

I'm well aware that's opinion however,

Regards,


Michael.


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 09:42:17 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:12:17 +0530
Subject: Precision issue in python
In-Reply-To: <fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002200642w48897077mff21a8240d359db0@mail.gmail.com>

A quick solution I came out with, no stirling numbers and had tried to avoid
large integer multiplication as much as possible.

import math

for i in range(int(raw_input())):
    n, k, l = [int(i) for i in raw_input().split()]
    e = sum(math.log10(i) for i in range(1, n+1))
    frac_e = e - math.floor(e)
    a = str(10**frac_e * 10**(k - 1)).split('.')[0]

    b  = 1
    for i in range(n, 0, -1):
        b = (b * i) % 10**l
    lb = len(str(b))
    if lb < l:
        b = str(b) + '0'* (l - lb)

    print a, b

~l0nwlf

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Mark Dickinson <dickinsm at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 20, 11:17 am, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hello everyone. I think it is  related to the precision with double
> > arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (
> https://www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note :
> for
> > all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
> > in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
> > issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
> > Thank you.
>
> If I understand you correctly, you're trying to compute the first k
> digits in the decimal expansion of N!, with bounds of k <= 15 and 100
> <= N < 10**8.  Is that right?
>
> Python's floats simply don't give you enough precision for this:
> you'd need to find the fractional part of log10(N!) with >= 15 digits
> of precision.  But the integral part needs ~ log10(log10(N!)) digits,
> so you end up needing to compute log10(N!) with at least 15 +
> log10(log10(N!)) ~ 15 + log10(N) + log10(log10(N)) digits (plus a few
> extra digits for safety);  so that's at least 25 digits needed for N
> close to 10**8.
>
> The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you allowed
> imports?).  Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
> integer arithmetic.
>
> --
> Mark
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From dksreddy at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 09:44:52 2010
From: dksreddy at gmail.com (Sandy)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:44:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Looking for crossfold validation code
References: <mailman.2816.1266628536.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <50026db2-ad99-41ac-bad8-ed8da0df6449@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Following is the code I use. I got it from web, but forgot the link.

def k_fold_cross_validation(X, K, randomise = False):
	"""
	Generates K (training, validation) pairs from the items in X.

	Each pair is a partition of X, where validation is an iterable
	of length len(X)/K. So each training iterable is of length
(K-1)*len(X)/K.

	If randomise is true, a copy of X is shuffled before partitioning,
	otherwise its order is preserved in training and validation.
	"""
	if randomise: from random import shuffle; X=list(X); shuffle(X)
	for k in xrange(K):
		training = [x for i, x in enumerate(X) if i % K != k]
		validation = [x for i, x in enumerate(X) if i % K == k]
		yield training, validation


Cheers,
dksr

On Feb 20, 1:15?am, Mark Livingstone <livingstonem... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am doing research as part of a Uni research Scholarship into using
> data compression for classification. What I am looking for is python
> code to handle the crossfold validation side of things for me - that
> will take my testing / training corpus and create the testing /
> training files after asking me for number of folds and number of times
> (or maybe allow me to enter a random seed or offset instead of times.)
> I could then either hook my classifier into the program or use it in a
> separate step.
>
> Probably not very hard to write, but why reinvent the wheel ;-)
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> MarkL



From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 10:13:07 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:13:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue in python
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4dd522d4-8c18-4fcd-ba1e-174af9098c02@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 5:44?pm, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 11:17?am, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone. I think it is ?related to the precision with double
> > arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (https://www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note : for
> > all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
> > in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
> > issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
> > Thank you.
>
> If I understand you correctly, you're trying to compute the first k
> digits in the decimal expansion of N!, with bounds of k <= 15 and 100
> <= N < 10**8. ?Is that right?
>
> Python's floats simply don't give you enough precision for this:
> you'd need to find the fractional part of log10(N!) with >= 15 digits
> of precision. ?But the integral part needs ~ log10(log10(N!)) digits,
> so you end up needing to compute log10(N!) with at least 15 +
> log10(log10(N!)) ~ 15 + log10(N) + log10(log10(N)) digits (plus a few
> extra digits for safety); ?so that's at least 25 digits needed for N
> close to 10**8.
>
> The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you allowed
> imports?). ?Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
> integer arithmetic.
>
> --
> Mark

Yes i am trying to first k digits of N!.I will try your method.
Thank you


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Sat Feb 20 10:23:16 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:23:16 -0800
Subject: The Disappearing Program? (py2exe, graphics)
In-Reply-To: <85adff5e-fc5e-4296-9408-b44f4b3dc207@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<6faf39c91002190504nbfaeb7ev1621e586468f31aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlm6kb$631$1@ger.gmane.org>
	<6faf39c91002190633qf8cc038k513ea2780fb50aa2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2782.1266592595.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hlmhap$dje$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<f54a4c53-a7f0-4e37-af4d-48dc5a075571@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln0l4$buc$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<17d79b9e-0f06-4885-bb52-9cc06312f403@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<85adff5e-fc5e-4296-9408-b44f4b3dc207@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hloup9$nge$1@news.eternal-september.org>

This apparently is not quite as easy as the py2exe tutorial suggests 
when MPL is involved. See <http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/MatPlotLib>. 
It looks like I have some reading and work to do.


From malkarouri at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 10:30:54 2010
From: malkarouri at gmail.com (Muhammad Alkarouri)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:30:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Few questions on SOAP
References: <c2dbdba7-9065-40ca-a930-ca93e06ccca9@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<52c61cb8-3529-4fee-9686-f755fb23c83a@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <72c74040-620b-4588-aa5e-63282bdacc64@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

Thanks every one for commenting. I guess I misspoke. I meant to say
that the group is not necessarily the best for parts of this question,
so Subhabrata might not get as enthusiastic responses as in some other
lists (which i don't recollect at the moment, sorry). I didn't want to
convey the sense that his question is not welcome, rather that it
might not get a lot of answers.

Thanks Brendon and Steve for the support, and thanks Mark for
correcting my slip.

Regards,

k


From mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 10:37:52 2010
From: mukeshtiwari.iiitm at gmail.com (mukesh tiwari)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:37:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue in python
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4dd522d4-8c18-4fcd-ba1e-174af9098c02@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <27736831-4378-4a07-aa38-8906340ecf62@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 8:13?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 20, 5:44?pm, Mark Dickinson <dicki... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 11:17?am, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Hello everyone. I think it is ?related to the precision with double
> > > arithmetic so i posted here.I am trying with this problem (https://www.spoj.pl/problems/CALCULAT) and the problem say that "Note : for
> > > all test cases whose N>=100, its K<=15." I know precision of doubles
> > > in c is 16 digits. Could some one please help me with this precision
> > > issue.I used stirling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > > Stirling's_approximation) to calculate the first k digits of N.
> > > Thank you.
>
> > If I understand you correctly, you're trying to compute the first k
> > digits in the decimal expansion of N!, with bounds of k <= 15 and 100
> > <= N < 10**8. ?Is that right?
>
> > Python's floats simply don't give you enough precision for this:
> > you'd need to find the fractional part of log10(N!) with >= 15 digits
> > of precision. ?But the integral part needs ~ log10(log10(N!)) digits,
> > so you end up needing to compute log10(N!) with at least 15 +
> > log10(log10(N!)) ~ 15 + log10(N) + log10(log10(N)) digits (plus a few
> > extra digits for safety); ?so that's at least 25 digits needed for N
> > close to 10**8.
>
> > The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you allowed
> > imports?). ?Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
> > integer arithmetic.
>
> > --
> > Mark
>
> Yes i am trying to first k digits of N!.I will try your method.
> Thank you

I am out of luck.I put d_2=d_1-int(d_1)+25 instead of d_2=d_1-
int(d_1)+K-1  but i am getting WA.
"The decimal module would get you the results you need (are you
allowed
imports?).  Or you could roll your own log implementation based on
integer arithmetic. "
I don't know if is possible to import this decimal module but kindly
tell me.Also a bit about log implementation
Thank you


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:00:29 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:30:29 +0530
Subject: Precision issue in python
In-Reply-To: <27736831-4378-4a07-aa38-8906340ecf62@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4dd522d4-8c18-4fcd-ba1e-174af9098c02@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<27736831-4378-4a07-aa38-8906340ecf62@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002200800o3e7dc56gda4549a24e98a708@mail.gmail.com>

> I don't know if is possible to import this decimal module but kindly
> tell me.Also a bit about log implementation
>
Why don't you read about decimal module (there is log too in it) and try
writing your approach here in case it does not work? Or you insist someone
to rewrite your code using decimal module ? :-/

~l0nwlf
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From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:12:01 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:12:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
Message-ID: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello

How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?

Let us consider this:

class C1:

    # Pure virtual
    def cb(self, param1, param2):
        """
        This is a callback

        @param param1: ...
        @param param2: ...
        """
        raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"

# Implementation w/o a 'cb', thus 'cb' should not be used
class C2(C1):
    def __init__(self):
        pass

# Implementation w/ 'cb', thus 'cb' can be used
class C3(C1):
    def __init__(self):
        pass

    def cb(self, param1, param2):
        print "i am c3 cb"

# Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
child classes
def dispatcher(c):
    if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
        c.cb("Hello", "World")

dispatcher(C2())
dispatcher(C3())

What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.

Please advise.


From swrath at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:27:28 2010
From: swrath at gmail.com (sWrath swrath)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:27:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: finding element by tag in xml
Message-ID: <871883dd-eb99-4de4-b70f-df09234c8630@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Hi

I am trying to search an element by tag and new in reading a xml file
(in python). I coded this , but it did not work

----------------------------------------------
'''This is to detect the first element and print out all that element
by tag'''


from xml.dom.minidom import parse
from xml.etree.ElementTree import*

file1="book.xml"
tmptree=ElementTree()
tmptree.parse(file1)
items=root.getiterator()


dom = parse(file1)


#Find tag names
for node in items :
    if node.tag == 'author': #Get tag
        print dom.getElementsByTagName ('book') #Error 1



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
2 Questions

1. Why can't I use dom.getElementsByTagName('book') in #Error 1? How
do i print the elements ?
      Error- AttributeError: ElementTree instance has no attribute
'getElementsByTagName'



Thanks
John


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 11:38:07 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2808.1266615142.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94febb38-2249-4ba1-872f-4ed11865f046@c28g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 4:32?pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 11:08 -0800, T wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 7:19 pm, Ryan Kelly <r... at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 07:46 -0800, T wrote:
> > > > I have a Python app which I converted to an EXE (all files separate;
> > > > single EXE didn't work properly) via py2exe - I plan on distributing
> > > > this and would like the ability to remotely upgrade the program (for
> > > > example, via HTTP/HTTPS). ? Looks like it's not just the EXE that I
> > > > will need need to replace (DLLs, the library.zip, etc.). ?What would
> > > > be the best way to go about doing this?
>
> > > I've been working on an auto-update framework for my own frozen apps,
> > > you might find it useful:
>
> > > ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky
>
> > > Docs are a little scarce at the moment, the next release will hopefully
> > > come with a short tutorial (as well as support for cx_freeze and maybe
> > > py2app, depending on how adventurous I'm feeling).
>
> > Thanks Ryan..this looks like it could be what I'm looking for, but I'm
> > still a bit unsure of how exactly how it works. ?Do you happen to have
> > an idea approx when the next release w/ tutorial will be out?
>
> If I punt on the py2app support, I should be able to get it done in the
> next 3-4 days. ?I'll send a quick email to python-list when it's ready.
>
> Here's a rough roadmap of where the project is heading:
>
> ? v0.4.0: ?cx_freeze support and a tutorial [the next 3-4 days]
> ? v0.4.1: ?py2app support [the next 2-3 weeks]
> ? v0.5.0: ?differential updates using bsdiff [next few months]
>
> ? Cheers,
>
> ? ? ?Ryan
>
> --
> Ryan Kellyhttp://www.rfk.id.au?| ?This message is digitally signed. Please visit
> r... at rfk.id.au ? ? ? ?| ?http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/for details
>
> ?signature.asc
> < 1KViewDownload

Excellent - I look forward to giving it a try.  Thanks again!


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 11:41:10 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:41:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13616@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d7366d36-1079-4377-8119-b37642bd96d9@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 6:13?am, Michael Sparks <spark... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 4:15?pm, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ...
>
> > ? ? def print_numbers()
> > ? ? ? ? [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? [n * n, n * n * n]
> > ? ? ? ? }.reject { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? square == 25 || cube == 64
> > ? ? ? ? }.map { |square, cube|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? cube
> > ? ? ? ? }.each { |n|
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? puts n
> > ? ? ? ? }
> > ? ? end
>
> This strikes me as a terrible example. For example, this is
> significantly clearer:
> ? ? def print_numbers()
> ? ? ? ? for n in [1,2,3,4,5,6]:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? square, cube = n * n, n * n * n
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if square != 25 and cube != 64:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print n

This is not an exact translation.  My example prints the cubes.  It is
my fault for using "n" as the parameter in the last block.  I would
rename the parameter to cube.

>
> I /can/ see arguments for ruby style blocks in python, but not for
> this sort of thing, or lisp style quoted expressions[1]. ie I can see
> situations where you have more complex code in real life where they
> will definitely simplify things.
>
> [1] This is perhaps more appropriate because '(a b c) is equivalent
> ? ? to (quote a b c), and quote a b c can be viewed as close to
> ? ? python's expression "lambda: a b c"
>
> However, I can also see that in simple situations - such as the
> example you post - they will have a tendency to make code
> significantly less clear/direct.
>
> I suppose, if I have a choice between something (hard being possible &
> simple code looking simple) and (hard things being simpler & simple
> things looking harder), I'd probably personally choose the former.
> This is not because I don't like hard things being simple, but because
> I think that simple things are more common and making them look harder
> is a mistake.
>


I agree with much of what you are saying.  The example is indeed
terribly contrived.

I'm not sure I agree that there is anything unclear or undirect about
the Ruby, though.  I've been fairly immersed in Ruby code, so maybe
it's been warping my brain, but once you get over the unfamiliarity of
the syntax, you see that there's actually a rhythm to the code.

Setting aside punctuation and parameter lists, the code clearly
expresses the transformations and actions in the natural order that
you'd do them:

   LIST map
          expression
        reject
          criteria
        map
          expression
        each
          statement

In English, for the list elements, map them to tuples of squares and
cubes, reject the oddballs, take the cube, and print it out.

         [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6].map { |n|
             [n * n, n * n * n]
         }.reject { |square, cube|
             square == 25 || cube == 64
         }.map { |square, cube|
             cube
         }.each { |cube|
             puts cube
         }

For such a small problem, I agree it's verbose.   But it's also
completely flat--you don't need to use an "if" statement to express
the concept of rejection.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Feb 20 11:46:17 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:46:17 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8011D9.40005@v.loewis.de>

lallous wrote:
> Hello
> 
> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?

See, for example

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/266468/

Regards,
Martin


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 20 11:46:42 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:46:42 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 20.02.10 17:12, schrieb lallous:
> Hello
>
> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?
>
> Let us consider this:
>
> class C1:
>
>      # Pure virtual
>      def cb(self, param1, param2):
>          """
>          This is a callback
>
>          @param param1: ...
>          @param param2: ...
>          """
>          raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
>
> # Implementation w/o a 'cb', thus 'cb' should not be used
> class C2(C1):
>      def __init__(self):
>          pass
>
> # Implementation w/ 'cb', thus 'cb' can be used
> class C3(C1):
>      def __init__(self):
>          pass
>
>      def cb(self, param1, param2):
>          print "i am c3 cb"
>
> # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
> child classes
> def dispatcher(c):
>      if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
>          c.cb("Hello", "World")
>
> dispatcher(C2())
> dispatcher(C3())
>
> What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
> if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.
>
> Please advise.

There is nothing more beyond that what you already did. You can raise a 
NotImplementedError for classes that don't implement the method. That's it.

Diez


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Feb 20 12:08:33 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:08:33 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>

>> class C1:
>>
>>      # Pure virtual
>>      def cb(self, param1, param2):
>>          """
>>          This is a callback
>>
>>          @param param1: ...
>>          @param param2: ...
>>          """
>>          raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
>>
>> # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
>> child classes
>> def dispatcher(c):
>>      if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
>>          c.cb("Hello", "World")
>>
>> dispatcher(C2())
>> dispatcher(C3())
>>
>> What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
>> if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.
>>
>> Please advise.
> 
> There is nothing more beyond that what you already did. You can raise a
> NotImplementedError for classes that don't implement the method. That's it.

That's not true. Currently, the hasattr() call would report that cb is
available, when it is actually not implemented. It would be possible to
do something like

  if hasattr(c, 'cb') and not is_pure(c.cb):
      c.cb("Hello", "World")

is_pure could, for example, look at a function attribute of the
callback. You'd write something like

  @pure_virtual
  def cb(self, param1, param2):
      not_implemented

Regards,
Martin


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Feb 20 12:14:04 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:14:04 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <7uajisFvihU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sorry, I totally mis-read the OP, too tired. You are right of course.

Diez


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:17:12 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:17:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Precision issue in python
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4dd522d4-8c18-4fcd-ba1e-174af9098c02@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<27736831-4378-4a07-aa38-8906340ecf62@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0550699e-9da7-4b3b-8a0d-f4549a3ddf83@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 3:37?pm, mukesh tiwari <mukeshtiwari.ii... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I don't know if is possible to import this decimal module but kindly
> tell me.Also a bit about log implementation

The decimal module is part of the standard library;  I don't know what
the rules are for SPOJ, but you're already importing the math module,
so at least *some* imports are obviously permitted.  Here's a quick
demonstration of how you might use the decimal module:  you can
probably find ways to tweak it for speed and accuracy.

from decimal import Decimal as D
from decimal import getcontext

getcontext().prec = 100   # working precision = 100 digits

pi =
D('3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459'
 
'2307816406286208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844')
half = D('0.5')
log = D.ln

def logfac(x):
    """Approximation to log(x!), using first few terms of Stirling's
series."""

    x = D(x)
    return log(2*pi)/2 + (x + half)*log(x) - x + \
        1/(12*x) - 1/(360*x**3) + 1/(1260*x**5)

def fac_first_digits(n, k):
    """Get first k decimal digits of n!."""

    log10_nfac = logfac(n)/log(D(10))
    frac = log10_nfac - int(log10_nfac)
    return int(10**(frac - 1 + k))


With the above code I get, for example (with Python 2.6):

>>> fac_first_digits(12345, 15)
344364246918678
>>> from math import factorial
>>> int(str(factorial(12345))[:15])
344364246918678

For small n, you'll need more terms of Stirling's series than I've
used above.  And there's always a small chance that the intermediate
errors involved in the computation might change those first 15
digits;  with a working precision of 100 and lots of terms of
Stirling's series it's a *very* small chance, but it's there.  If you
want something 100% watertight, you'd need to  compute strict upper
and lower bounds for the true result, and increase precision until
those bounds match sufficiently far that you can be sure of the first
k digits being correct.

--
Mark


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:19:27 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:19:27 -0500
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <201002201219.27267.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Saturday 20 February 2010 11:46:42 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Am 20.02.10 17:12, schrieb lallous:
> > Hello
> >
> > How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?
> >
> > Let us consider this:
> >
> > class C1:
> >
> >      # Pure virtual
> >      def cb(self, param1, param2):
> >          """
> >          This is a callback
> >
> >          @param param1: ...
> >          @param param2: ...
> >          """
> >          raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
> >
> > # Implementation w/o a 'cb', thus 'cb' should not be used
> > class C2(C1):
> >      def __init__(self):
> >          pass
> >
> > # Implementation w/ 'cb', thus 'cb' can be used
> > class C3(C1):
> >      def __init__(self):
> >          pass
> >
> >      def cb(self, param1, param2):
> >          print "i am c3 cb"
> >
> > # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
> > child classes
> > def dispatcher(c):
> >      if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
> >          c.cb("Hello", "World")
> >
> > dispatcher(C2())
> > dispatcher(C3())
> >
> > What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
> > if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.
> >
> > Please advise.
> 
> There is nothing more beyond that what you already did. You can raise a
> NotImplementedError for classes that don't implement the method. That's it.
> 
> Diez
> 

Perhaps you could use an easier-to-ask-forgiveness-than-permission idiom?

def dispatcher(c):
	try:
		c.cb("Hello", "World")
	except NotImplementedError:
		pass



----
Rami Chowdhury
"Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information 
available." -- Benford's Law of Controversy
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:35:17 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:35:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
Message-ID: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

Hello everyone!

I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:

((None, u'x', u'y'),
(u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
(u'b', None, 8.0))

I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
header.

For example:
d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }

As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
added to the dictionary.

Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.

How can I possibly do this?

Thank you


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:36:00 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:36:00 +1100
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0dd3aaf4-61a0-4c4b-ac84-ae7d9de38b28@z39g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2817.1266629288.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<f9289ced-a2db-4847-a8b2-c2b43be9950d@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b7f892c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<2adb1d47-f899-485a-ad0e-354aa92ac227@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b801d9c@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/20/10 19:36, MattB wrote:
> On Feb 20, 2:02 am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/20/10 13:32, MattB wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm using the network in my own apartment. Not the campus's.
>>> Moreover, my mac's MAC address is different from the MAC address shown
>>> by my router, but as I said I'm also blocked when using my friend's
>>> wireless router at his apartment.
>>
>>> So it must be my mac's MAC, and not the router's MAC, that's being
>>> blocked, right?
>>
>>> But ALSO -- is it my ISP that's blocking the mac's MAC (and not the
>>> school), since I can't raise ANY url's from python when I'm on
>>> wireless?
>>
>> MAC or IP blocking can't be the reason, as the OP stated, he can use
>> Firefox just fine.
>>
>> Can you access, say,http://www.google.comfrom urllib or mechanize?
>>
>> If you can't access *any website* using urllib/mechanize but you can
>> with a browser and you're on a unix-based machine, you probably have the
>> same problem as I used to have. Check whether you used the same hostname
>> in /etc/conf.d/hostname and /etc/hosts (or wherever your distro saves
>> its hostname configurations, I use Gentoo); after editing those files
>> reboot (there are ways to avoid reboot, but rebooting guarantees the
>> conf file is reread).
>>
>> Check the hostname by running this python script:
>>
>> import socket
>> hn = socket.gethostname()
>> print hn
>> print socket.gethostbyname(hn) # should be 127.0.0.1
> 
> Lie,
> 
> Wow. Strangely, that script returned 192.168.1.106. However, in Snow
> Leopard's airport settings, if I click on 'advanced' and then
> 'proxies', the default proxy for 'http' is 127.0.0.1:4444 (and in
> these settings, the 'use proxy for http' is checked).
> 
> I just tried checking the unix files you mentioned. In etc/hosts, the
> following info is displayed:
> 
> ##
> # Host Database
> #
> # localhost is used to configure the loopback interface
> # when the system is booting.  Do not change this entry.
> ##
> 
> 
> 127.0.0.1	localhost
> 255.255.255.255	broadcasthost
> ::1             localhost
> fe80::1%lo0	localhost
> 
> 
> Not sure if these are what I'm looking for -- I'm new to unix so I may
> need a bit more hand-holding here.

Try the alternatives in this site: http://movealong.org/hostname.html


> Also found a file called ntp-restrict.conf, containing:
>
> # Access restrictions documented in ntp.conf(5) and
> # http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/AccessRestrictions
> # Limit network machines to time queries only
>
> restrict default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
> restrict -6 default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
>
> # localhost is unrestricted
> restrict 127.0.0.1
> restrict -6 ::1
>
> includefile /private/etc/ntp.conf

Not sure if ntp-restrict.conf is a red herring here since its name
implies it's something for NTP (Network Time Protocol, used for time
synchronization)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 12:49:14 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:49:14 +0000
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002191921w4dbe40c9s338796fa225a5bb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191921w4dbe40c9s338796fa225a5bb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B80209A.9080807@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> basically I infer that : dirname = path - basename, like for path =  
> '//x', basename = x, hence dirname = '//'
> 
[snip]
Basically, os.path.dirname() should return the directory name, which
means dropping everything after the last slash, and also the last slash.
However, there's the special case where the name is in the root
directory, and you want to retain the slash(es).

When building a path (os.path.join()) you want to join the parts with a
single slash between them, but there's the special case when a part is
the root directory, and you don't want to add a slash between them, eg
os.part.join('/x', 'y') should return '/x/y', but os.part.join('/', 'x')
should return '/x'.


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 12:52:49 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:52:49 +0000
Subject: Precision issue in python
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002200642w48897077mff21a8240d359db0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002200642w48897077mff21a8240d359db0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5c6f2a5d1002200952i580f5f26ifa69e0fb3d57418b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Shashwat Anand
<anand.shashwat at gmail.com> wrote:
> A quick solution I came out with, no stirling numbers and had tried to avoid
> large integer multiplication as much as possible.
>
> import math
>
> for i in range(int(raw_input())):
> ??? n, k, l = [int(i) for i in raw_input().split()]
> ??? e = sum(math.log10(i) for i in range(1, n+1))
>     frac_e = e - math.floor(e)

This isn't going to give you enough accuracy when n gets large (and
the original problem seems to allow n to be as large as 10**8), for
the reasons I described earlier---that is, Python floats only give you
around 16 decimal digits of precision;  your 'e' value will already
have used up some of those 16 digits before the point, leaving you
fewer than 16 digits of precision after the point, so the absolute
error in frac_e will likely be larger than 1e-15.  That's not good
enough for getting the first 15 digits of 10**frac_e accurately.  For
large n, you'll also be accumulating significant error in the sum.

>     a = str(10**frac_e * 10**(k - 1)).split('.')[0]

The str(...).split('.') here doesn't do a good job of extracting the
integer part when its argument is >= 1e12, since Python produces a
result in scientific notation.  I think you're going to get strange
results when k >= 13.

--
Mark


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 13:00:59 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:00:59 +0000
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
In-Reply-To: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B80235B.2030201@mrabarnett.plus.com>

vsoler wrote:
> Hello everyone!
> 
> I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:
> 
> ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> (u'b', None, 8.0))
> 
> I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
> header.
> 
> For example:
> d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }
> 
> As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
> added to the dictionary.
> 
> Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.
> 
> How can I possibly do this?
> 
> Thank you

Does this help?

matrix = ((None, u'x', u'y'),
(u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
(u'b', None, 8.0))

for row in matrix[1 : ]:
     for col, val in zip(matrix[0][1 : ], row[1 : ]):
         print row[0], col, val


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Sat Feb 20 13:28:16 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:28:16 +0000
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlp9ju$o2d$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/20/10 00:20, MattB wrote:
<cut>
>
> Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
> that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
> programming noob.
<cut>
It wasn't my intention to imply that, rather the opposite, that if some 
BOFH would see your action as misuse (some admins are pretty trigger 
happy), you would expect them to contact you directly (I would).
Even though you are on a wireless there are ways to track you down.
For example I would search my log to see if I can make an association 
between a login to one of my servers and your mac address.

BTW, I always followed the philosophy that learning is much more fun if 
you can brake/blow something up. Thus on my networks all students had a 
lot of freedom to do whatever they think was appropriate but they where 
aware that every action on my network was monitored and logged.

-- 
mph


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Feb 20 13:32:33 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:32:33 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlp9rc$b45$03$1@news.t-online.com>

lallous wrote:

> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?

http://docs.python.org/library/abc.html#abc.abstractmethod

Peter


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 13:34:14 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:04:14 +0530
Subject: the mystery of dirname()
In-Reply-To: <4B80209A.9080807@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <d4ab53de1002191825r6b80370hbd291318467e6219@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5187.3060806@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191909g266c25f7ua139b32d6d820038@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B7F5435.2020704@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<d4ab53de1002191921w4dbe40c9s338796fa225a5bb5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4B80209A.9080807@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002201034k136ea48evba9490e362bf0aa4@mail.gmail.com>

got it. thanks. :)


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:19 PM, MRAB <python at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:

> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> basically I infer that : dirname = path - basename, like for path =
>>  '//x', basename = x, hence dirname = '//'
>>
>>  [snip]
> Basically, os.path.dirname() should return the directory name, which
> means dropping everything after the last slash, and also the last slash.
> However, there's the special case where the name is in the root
> directory, and you want to retain the slash(es).
>
> When building a path (os.path.join()) you want to join the parts with a
> single slash between them, but there's the special case when a part is
> the root directory, and you don't want to add a slash between them, eg
> os.part.join('/x', 'y') should return '/x/y', but os.part.join('/', 'x')
> should return '/x'.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 13:44:29 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:14:29 +0530
Subject: Precision issue in python
In-Reply-To: <5c6f2a5d1002200952i580f5f26ifa69e0fb3d57418b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e92483b9-f72d-48a0-9c39-23894e67177b@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<fae76157-aab0-46d8-af7d-2872ed88a202@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<d4ab53de1002200642w48897077mff21a8240d359db0@mail.gmail.com> 
	<5c6f2a5d1002200952i580f5f26ifa69e0fb3d57418b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002201044n26815312sce86c5cd4dfc73d5@mail.gmail.com>

@Mark,

The str(...).split('.') here doesn't do a good job of extracting the
> integer part when its argument is >= 1e12, since Python produces a
> result in scientific notation.  I think you're going to get strange
> results when k >= 13.
>

Yeah, you were correct. I tested it for k >= 13, and there were issues i.e.
only one character is printed.
Shashwat-Anands-MacBook-Pro:Desktop l0nwlf$ python CALCULAT.py
3
1000000 12 12
826393051664 000000000000
1000000 13 13
8 0000000000000
100 15 4
9 0000

The logic I tried was : for
alpha = n!
log(alpha) = log(n!)
                = log(n) + log(n-1) + .. log(2) + log(1)
                = e [where e = log(n) + .... + log(1)]

frac_e =  {e} (fractional part of e, like {1.23} = .23)
now last k digits of alpha = 10**frac_e * 10**(k - 1)

As I can see, the method is mathematically sound, and there is precision
issues. Time for code modification.

~l0nwlf
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From mikko at redinnovation.com  Sat Feb 20 13:48:42 2010
From: mikko at redinnovation.com (Mikko Ohtamaa)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:48:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Compiling and running 32-bit Python on 64-bit server?
Message-ID: <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Some server-side Python applications are limited by memory usage
(hint: Zope), because Python effective uses processes and not threads
for multiprocessing. This is especially true for 64-bit platforms,
since Python programs are all about references and objects and 64-bit
effectively doubles reference size.

Some benchmarks 32-bit vs. 64-bit were discussed here:

http://jstahl.org/archives/2010/01/2...ks-python-2-6/

How one could create 32-bit Python run-time enviroment, preferable
virtualenv, on 64-bit Linux (VPS), reducing memory usage? This
environment could actually beat 64-bit in performance, due to better
memory cache use.

I assume this involves having lib32 libs and compiling Python with
some magical switches.

Cheers,
Mikko


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 14:00:06 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:00:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
References: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2841.1266688860.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <22502d6d-18bd-4df7-be80-aa5150e16405@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 7:00?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> vsoler wrote:
> > Hello everyone!
>
> > I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:
>
> > ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> > (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> > (u'b', None, 8.0))
>
> > I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
> > header.
>
> > For example:
> > d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }
>
> > As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
> > added to the dictionary.
>
> > Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.
>
> > How can I possibly do this?
>
> > Thank you
>
> Does this help?
>
> matrix = ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> (u'b', None, 8.0))
>
> for row in matrix[1 : ]:
> ? ? ?for col, val in zip(matrix[0][1 : ], row[1 : ]):
> ? ? ? ? ?print row[0], col, val

and the dictionary?

it is the ultimate goal of what I am intending...

Thank you


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Feb 20 14:13:45 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:13:45 -0800
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
In-Reply-To: <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka>
References: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka> <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka>
Message-ID: <4B803469.7010406@islandtraining.com>

Sebastian Noack wrote:
> I have figured out that, you have to close the writing end in the child
> process, which is reading from the pipe. Otherwise the underlying pipe
> is not going to be closed when the parent process is closing its
> writing end. This has nothing to do with Python itself. I have tried
> plain C and there it is the same behaviour.
>
> Regards
> Sebastian Noack
>   


Correct.  The fork creates two processes with references to the read and 
write ends of the pipe.  Both parent and child processes should close 
the ends they are not using.

Here's a thought:  Consider the subprocess module.   It can do the fork 
and any necessary pipes and can do so in an OS independent way.   It 
might make you life much easier.

Gary Herron



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Feb 20 14:18:05 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:18:05 +0100
Subject: Compiling and running 32-bit Python on 64-bit server?
In-Reply-To: <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B80356D.8000209@v.loewis.de>

> How one could create 32-bit Python run-time enviroment, preferable
> virtualenv, on 64-bit Linux (VPS), reducing memory usage?

I'd install a 32-bit Linux on the hardware, and install a bigmem kernel
if it has more than 3GB of main memory.

> I assume this involves having lib32 libs and compiling Python with
> some magical switches.

The precise set of packages that you will need depends on the specific
Linux distribution. Check whether "gcc -m32" can build a hello-world
program. Then, set CC to "gcc -m32", and follow the build instructions
in Python's README file.

Regards,
Martin


From fallenblood at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 14:25:46 2010
From: fallenblood at gmail.com (egasimus)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:25:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: if not global -- then what?
Message-ID: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
example a class containing program settings, accessible from
everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 14:54:20 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:54:20 +0000
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
In-Reply-To: <22502d6d-18bd-4df7-be80-aa5150e16405@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.2841.1266688860.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<22502d6d-18bd-4df7-be80-aa5150e16405@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B803DEC.7060304@mrabarnett.plus.com>

vsoler wrote:
> On Feb 20, 7:00 pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> vsoler wrote:
>>> Hello everyone!
>>> I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:
>>> ((None, u'x', u'y'),
>>> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
>>> (u'b', None, 8.0))
>>> I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
>>> header.
>>> For example:
>>> d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }
>>> As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
>>> added to the dictionary.
>>> Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.
>>> How can I possibly do this?
>>> Thank you
>> Does this help?
>>
>> matrix = ((None, u'x', u'y'),
>> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
>> (u'b', None, 8.0))
>>
>> for row in matrix[1 : ]:
>>      for col, val in zip(matrix[0][1 : ], row[1 : ]):
>>          print row[0], col, val
> 
> and the dictionary?
> 
> it is the ultimate goal of what I am intending...
> 
> Thank you

The difficult bit is working out how to produce the keys and values for
the dict from the tuple of tuples, and I've shown you that. The rest is
straightforward.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 15:00:23 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:00:23 +0000
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B803F57.6010008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

egasimus wrote:
> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from
> everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?

Python's 'global' keyword is global in a file (module), not global
across multiple files, so it would have helped you anyway.

If you want program settings accessible across multiple modules then put
the settings in a module and import that module in any other module that
needs to access them.


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Feb 20 15:00:32 2010
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:00:32 -0800
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B803F60.8010603@islandtraining.com>

egasimus wrote:
> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from
> everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?
>   

Define your "global" in a module (a .py file) and import that wherever 
you need it:

mod.py:
gvar = 123       # A Global (like) value


main.py:
import mod
... mod.gvar ...                # To access the value
... mod.gvar = 456 ...      #To change the value


Using the "global" keyword has nothing to do with this.  And in fact 
Python does not even have global variables in the sense you may be thinking.

If you wish to provide a function in mode.py that sets the value then 
this would fail

mod.py:
gvar=123
def SetGvar(v):
  gvar = v

because the gvar inside the function is local to that function.   This 
is the proper place to use the "global" keyword. 

mode.py:
gvar = 123
def SetGvar(v):
    global gvar   # Makes gvar refer to the (global) module level gvar
    gvar = v

Gary Herron



From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 15:02:46 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:02:46 +0100
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002201202je3ebeddv6f20639146f0b595@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 8:25 PM, egasimus <fallenblood at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from
> everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

There is probably a smarter way but I would recommend passing a
settings object around.


From ivlenin at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 15:04:21 2010
From: ivlenin at gmail.com (I V)
Date: 20 Feb 2010 21:04:21 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b804045$1@news.x-privat.org>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:12:01 -0800, lallous wrote:
> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?

>From what you want, it seems like you want cb() to not be called if it 
isn't implemented in the derived class; this isn't really what pure 
virtual functions in C++ do - pure virtual functions enforce, at compile 
time, that the derived class implements the method.

If you have a situation when you want to either call a derived class's 
version of cb(), or do nothing, can you not just have an implementation 
of cb() in the base class that does nothing, i.e.

class C1(object):
	def cb(self, param1, param2):
		pass


From cdalten at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 15:46:24 2010
From: cdalten at gmail.com (chad)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:46:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How would I do a continuous write over a pipe in the following 
	code...
Message-ID: <9d0f6456-97c7-4bde-8e07-9576b02f91f9@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Given the following....

#!/usr/bin/python

import subprocess as s

broadcast = s.Popen("echo test | wall", shell=True,stdout=s.PIPE)

out = broadcast.stdout
while 1:
    out
    broadcast.wait()

broadcast.stdout.close()


The code only executes once. What I want to do is be able to
continuously write over the pipe once it is open. I could put
s.Popen() inside the while loop, but that seems a bit too messy. So is
there some way to just open the pipe once, and once it is open, just
continuously write over it vs just opening and closing the pipe every
time?


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:25:53 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:25:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Building a dict from a tuple of tuples
References: <8b2ae929-513f-4508-8a53-9011e4d0b97f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2841.1266688860.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<22502d6d-18bd-4df7-be80-aa5150e16405@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2845.1266695657.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b3cf1229-72f2-4d48-9e0c-f23165155084@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 8:54?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> vsoler wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 7:00 pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> >> vsoler wrote:
> >>> Hello everyone!
> >>> I have a tuple of tuples, coming from an Excel range, such as this:
> >>> ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> >>> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> >>> (u'b', None, 8.0))
> >>> I need to build a dictionary that has, as key, the row and column
> >>> header.
> >>> For example:
> >>> d={ (u'a',u'x'):1.0, (u'a',u'y'): 7.0, (u'b',u'y'):8.0 }
> >>> As you can see, if the value in the matrix is None, no key has to be
> >>> added to the dictionary.
> >>> Of course, my tuple of tuples is a lot bigger.
> >>> How can I possibly do this?
> >>> Thank you
> >> Does this help?
>
> >> matrix = ((None, u'x', u'y'),
> >> (u'a', 1.0, 7.0),
> >> (u'b', None, 8.0))
>
> >> for row in matrix[1 : ]:
> >> ? ? ?for col, val in zip(matrix[0][1 : ], row[1 : ]):
> >> ? ? ? ? ?print row[0], col, val
>
> > and the dictionary?
>
> > it is the ultimate goal of what I am intending...
>
> > Thank you
>
> The difficult bit is working out how to produce the keys and values for
> the dict from the tuple of tuples, and I've shown you that. The rest is
> straightforward.

I'll try. Thank you very much MRAB


From gnarlodious at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:28:55 2010
From: gnarlodious at gmail.com (Gnarlodious)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:28:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shared web host good citizenship question
References: <c9bfc235-1374-4dab-8f52-c987bf614116@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <59e76f4d-2493-411d-9cef-5420483550f1@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I would say like this: If your processes are serving up straight
pages, let them timeout after a while. If your processes are handling
eCommerce or persistent data, keep the connection open as long as
possible.

-- Gnarlie


From jim.hefferon at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:41:15 2010
From: jim.hefferon at gmail.com (Jim)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:41:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: finding element by tag in xml
References: <871883dd-eb99-4de4-b70f-df09234c8630@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f818d0d9-4cc7-47df-9aa6-7eb11001f8ee@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 11:27 am, sWrath swrath <swr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2 Questions
>
> 1. Why can't I use dom.getElementsByTagName('book') in #Error 1? How
> do i print the elements ?
>       Error- AttributeError: ElementTree instance has no attribute
> 'getElementsByTagName'

I only see one question here.

I think the error is asserting that your instance of the ET class does
not have such a fcn.  I also do not see it in the ET documentation.
Perhaps you are looking for the XPath support at http://effbot.org/zone/element-xpath.htm
?  Or perhaps you want to make your document dom representation via a
different library?

Jim


From digitalxero at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:56:09 2010
From: digitalxero at gmail.com (Dj Gilcrease)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:56:09 -0700
Subject: finding element by tag in xml
In-Reply-To: <871883dd-eb99-4de4-b70f-df09234c8630@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <871883dd-eb99-4de4-b70f-df09234c8630@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e9764b731002201356m63cfe7c8r8e6423fe4bce83e5@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 9:27 AM, sWrath swrath <swrath at gmail.com> wrote:
> from xml.dom.minidom import parse
> from xml.etree.ElementTree import*
>
> file1="book.xml"
> tmptree=ElementTree()
> tmptree.parse(file1)
> items=root.getiterator()
>
>
> dom = parse(file1)
>
>
> #Find tag names
> for node in items :
> ? ?if node.tag == 'author': #Get tag
> ? ? ? ?print dom.getElementsByTagName ('book') #Error 1

You are mixing two different types of xml parsers, either user minidom

for node in dom.getElementsByTagName('author'):
    print node.getElementsByTagName('book')

or use etree

for el in items:
    if el.tag == 'author':
        print el.find('book')

There are a few differences you need to note, the getElementsByTagName
always returns a list even if there is only 1 element and find only
returns the first element found no matter what. If you want to print
all books associated with an author you would need to do something
like

for author in tmptree.getiterator('author'):
    for book in author.getiterator('book'):
        print book


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 17:02:44 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:02:44 +0000
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>

lallous <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> writes:

> Hello
>
> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?
>
> Let us consider this:
>
> class C1:
>
>     # Pure virtual
>     def cb(self, param1, param2):
>         """
>         This is a callback
>
>         @param param1: ...
>         @param param2: ...
>         """
>         raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"

Why define it if it is virtual?

> # Implementation w/o a 'cb', thus 'cb' should not be used
> class C2(C1):
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
>
> # Implementation w/ 'cb', thus 'cb' can be used
> class C3(C1):
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
>
>     def cb(self, param1, param2):
>         print "i am c3 cb"
>
> # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
> child classes
> def dispatcher(c):
>     if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
>         c.cb("Hello", "World")
>
> dispatcher(C2())
> dispatcher(C3())
>
> What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
> if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.

If you don't define cb in the parent class, it'll work.

-- 
Arnaud


From norman at smash-net.org  Sat Feb 20 17:12:50 2010
From: norman at smash-net.org (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Norman_Rie=DF?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:12:50 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
Message-ID: <4B805E62.5070909@smash-net.org>

Hello,

i am trying to read a large bz2 compressed textfile using the bz2 module.
The file is 1717362770 lines long and 8GB large.
Using this code

source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
    for line in source_file:
    print line.strip()

    print "Exiting"
    print "I used file: " + file

the loop exits cleanly after 4311 lines in midline and the prints are
executed.
This happened on two different boxes runnig different brands of linux.
Is there something i miss or should be done differently?

Thank you.

Regards,
Norman



From olaye1977 at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 18:03:27 2010
From: olaye1977 at googlemail.com (V8 NUT)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:03:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz on Cent OS - Python 2.4
Message-ID: <9d373498-df99-41ef-b193-0c05073166ff@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Been trying to fix this issue for over 6 hours now.
It's doin my head in, any one know whats going on here.

==START==
python setup.py build
running build
running build_py
copying MySQLdb/release.py -> build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.4/MySQLdb
running build_ext
building '_mysql' extension
gcc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-x86_64-2.4/_mysql.o -L/usr/lib64/
mysql -L/usr/lib64 -lmysqlclient_r -lz -lpthread -lcrypt -lnsl -lm -
lpthread -lssl -lcrypto -o build/lib.linux-x86_64-2.4/_mysql.so
/usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libz.so when searching for
-lz
/usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libz.a when searching for -
lz
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

==END==

Am trying to get MySQL-python-1.2.3c1 installed on a CentOS 5 box
running Python 2.4
I do not want to upgrade my Python version.
I have tried:

1. yum install mysql-python
2. yum install librsync-devel
3. yum install python-devel

With all return no errors and a notification that there's nothing to
install or update.

Please help.




From astan.chee at al.com.au  Sat Feb 20 18:07:32 2010
From: astan.chee at al.com.au (Astan Chee)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:07:32 +1100
Subject: calculating a string equation
In-Reply-To: <m2ljezigs7.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <mailman.2405.1265924615.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2ljezigs7.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B806B34.1070508@al.com.au>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Astan Chee <astan.chee at al.com.au> writes:
>
>   
>> Hi,
>> I have some variables in my script that looks like this:
>> vars = {'var_a':'10','var_b':'4'}
>> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
>> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
>> What I'm trying to do is to plug in var_a and var_b's values from vars
>> into eqat and see if eqat returns true or false as well as getting the
>> value of result if these variables were "plugged in". How do I do
>> this?
>> I'm also expecting eqat and result to contain various python
>> mathematical operators like **, and compounded ()'s.
>> I'm not sure how to convert the equation; if I have to make a bunch of
>> if-statements or if there is a python function that already does
>> something like this.
>>     
>
> Yes: eval()
>
>   
>>>> vars = {'var_a':10 ,'var_b':4}
>>>> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
>>>> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
>>>> eval(eqat, vars)
>>>>         
> False
Hi,
I now have a slight problem with this. This doesnt seem to work:
 >>> vars = {'var a':10 ,'var b':4}
 >>> eqat = "(var a/2.0) <= var b"
 >>> eval(eqat, vars)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in <module>
    eval(eqat, vars)
  File "<string>", line 1
    (var a/2.0) <= var b
         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

So eval can't take spaces? is there a way to go around this?
Thanks again for any suggestions
Cheers
Astan

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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 20 18:21:50 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:21:50 -0800
Subject: calculating a string equation
In-Reply-To: <4B806B34.1070508@al.com.au>
References: <mailman.2405.1265924615.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<m2ljezigs7.fsf@googlemail.com> <4B806B34.1070508@al.com.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002201521w73905736o30760b7924663b89@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Astan Chee <astan.chee at al.com.au> wrote:
> Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> Astan Chee <astan.chee at al.com.au> writes:
> Hi,
> I have some variables in my script that looks like this:
> vars = {'var_a':'10','var_b':'4'}
> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
> What I'm trying to do is to plug in var_a and var_b's values from vars
> into eqat and see if eqat returns true or false as well as getting the
> value of result if these variables were "plugged in". How do I do
> this?
> I'm also expecting eqat and result to contain various python
> mathematical operators like **, and compounded ()'s.
> I'm not sure how to convert the equation; if I have to make a bunch of
> if-statements or if there is a python function that already does
> something like this.
>
>
> Yes: eval()
>
>
>
> vars = {'var_a':10 ,'var_b':4}
> eqat = "(var_a/2.0) <= var_b"
> result = "(var_a+var_b)/7"
> eval(eqat, vars)
>
>
> False
>
> Hi,
> I now have a slight problem with this. This doesnt seem to work:
>>>> vars = {'var a':10 ,'var b':4}
>>>> eqat = "(var a/2.0) <= var b"
>>>> eval(eqat, vars)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "<pyshell#11>", line 1, in <module>
> ??? eval(eqat, vars)
> ? File "<string>", line 1
> ??? (var a/2.0) <= var b
> ???????? ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> So eval can't take spaces? is there a way to go around this?

eval() requires the string be valid Python code and conform to
Python's syntax. Obviously your string isn't valid Python.
You can either require beforehand that variables not be prefixed with
"var " as they are currently, or you can get rid of the "var"s
yourself:

vars = {'a':10 ,'b':4}
equat = equat.replace('var ','')
eval(equat, vars)

but this could cause problems if you have a variable whose names ends
with "var"; using a regular expression for the removal would fix that.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 18:52:33 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:52:33 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
Message-ID: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>

hello,

I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught 
exception,
is that possible ?

thanks
Stef Mientki
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From timr at probo.com  Sat Feb 20 18:54:55 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:54:55 -0800
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>

DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
>network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
>use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
>couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.

If you want to manipulate the frames (as bitmaps), then you have little
choice but to decode the MPEG as you receive it, manipulate the bitmaps,
and re-encode it back to MPEG.

That's going to take a fair amount of time...
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 18:59:40 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:59:40 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002201559i1819944cre605f3904f06c541@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
> hello,
>
> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
> exception,
> is that possible ?
>
> thanks
> Stef Mientki
>

Yes, you catch the exception and do nothing.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 19:00:05 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 00:00:05 GMT
Subject: if not global -- then what?
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b807784$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:25:46 -0800, egasimus wrote:

> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from everywhere,
> in a program spanning multiple files?

Such a thing is no different from keeping many global settings. It's not 
the global KEYWORD that is discouraged, but the over-use of global 
variables itself.

See, for example:

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GlobalVariablesAreBad
http://weblogs.asp.net/wallen/archive/2003/05/08/6750.aspx


In a nutshell: shared variables introduce tight coupling between parts of 
your code that should be independent. Whether they are truly global, or 
passed around in a Settings object, makes little or no difference. In 
both cases, the risks and problems are identical.

Let me give a fanciful example: suppose your refrigerator, oven and 
shower all shared a single global temperature setting instead of having 
three local temperature settings. This would be a recipe for disaster: 
every operation to any of the three would need to carefully save the 
current temperature setting, and there's the constant risk of scalding 
showers, ruined foods, and undercooked meals.

Having three different global temperature settings helps a bit, but that 
just expands the number of variables that everything has access too. Why 
do the television and the garage door need access to any temperature 
setting, let alone all three?

Python globals aren't as bad as in some other languages, because "global" 
means global to a single module, not global to the entire program, but if 
you create a Settings object and import it from module to module, you 
break the encapsulation, *and* you then have the problem of needing to 
make sure it is initialised properly.

http://archive.eiffel.com/doc/manuals/technology/bmarticles/joop/globals.html

Global constants also aren't as bad, because the coupling is weaker. 
Unfortunately Python doesn't have constants, except by convention, so 
there's always the risk that some badly-behaved function might decide to 
redefine (say) math.pi to 3.15.

Unfortunately, you probably can't get rid of globals altogether, but the 
tricks are (1) use as few of them as possible, and (2) make them local as 
quickly as possible.

For example, you might have something like this:

default_header = "My special header"  # A global

for option, argument in command_line:
    if option == "--header":
        default_header = argument

class Printer:
    def print_page(self, text, header=None):
        if header is None:
            header = default_header
        print header
        print text


I would limit the scope of default_header so that it was local to the 
printer class:


for option, argument in command_line:
    if option == "--header":
        Printer.default_header = argument

class Printer:
    default_header = "My special header"

    def print_page(self, text, header=None):
        if header is None:
            header = self.default_header
        print header
        print text

You might not be able to completely eliminate either globals, or a 
Settings object, but you should be able to make it much, much smaller.

In practice, to make testing easier, I'd split the command line 
processing into two steps: a function that reads and processes the 
command line into a single local settings object, then a separate 
function that applies those settings to the various classes. The function 
that reads the command line doesn't need to know where the settings 
eventually end up, and the function that applies the settings doesn't 
need to know where they come from. All the coupling between settings and 
classes is in one place, the second function, instead of scattered all 
over your code.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 19:00:17 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 00:00:17 GMT
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hlp9ju$o2d$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b807791$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:28:16 +0000, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:

> On 02/20/10 00:20, MattB wrote:
> <cut>
>>
>> Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
>> that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
>> programming noob.
> <cut>
> It wasn't my intention to imply that, rather the opposite, that if some
> BOFH would see your action as misuse (some admins are pretty trigger
> happy), you would expect them to contact you directly (I would). Even
> though you are on a wireless there are ways to track you down. For
> example I would search my log to see if I can make an association
> between a login to one of my servers and your mac address.

This may be what you would do, but in my experience, it is more likely 
that the admin would be far too busy and/or lazy to try to track you down 
unless (1) they wanted to give you a warning prior to expulsion, or (2) 
they needed to know who you were prior to laying charges.

In my experience they're far more likely to just hit the problem with a 
hammer by blocking you as much as is technically possible.


> BTW, I always followed the philosophy that learning is much more fun if
> you can brake/blow something up. Thus on my networks all students had a
> lot of freedom to do whatever they think was appropriate but they where
> aware that every action on my network was monitored and logged.

Unfortunately this is the exception rather than the rule, I think.


-- 
Steven


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 19:21:09 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:21:09 +1100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
>> exception,
>> is that possible ?
>>
>> thanks
>> Stef Mientki
>>

That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 19:21:11 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:21:11 -0700
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the help, this is considerably faster and easier to read (see
below). I changed it to avoid the "break" and I think it makes it easy to
understand. I am checking the conditions each time slows it but it is worth
it to me at this time.
Thanks again
Vincent

def read_data_file(filename):
    reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')

    data = []
    mask = []
    outliers = []
    modified = []

    data_append = data.append
    mask_append = mask.append
    outliers_append = outliers.append
    modified_append = modified.append

    maskcount = 0
    outliercount = 0
    modifiedcount = 0

    for row in reader:
        if '[MASKS]' in row:
            maskcount += 1
        if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
            outliercount += 1
        if '[MODIFIED]' in row:
            modifiedcount += 1
        if not any((maskcount, outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
            data_append(row)
        elif not any((outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
            mask_append(row)
        elif not any((modifiedcount, not row)):
            outliers_append(row)
        else:
            if row: modified_append(row)

    data = data[1:]
    mask = mask[3:]
    outliers = outliers[3:]
    modified = modified[3:]
    return [data, mask, outliers, modified]

*Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 4:36 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:
>
>> In reference to the several comments about "[x for x in read] is basically
>> a copy of the entire list. This isn't necessary." or list(read). I had
>> thought I had a problem with having iterators in the takewhile() statement.
>> I thought I testes and it didn't work. It seems I was wrong. It clearly
>> works. I'll make this change and see if it is any better.
>>
>> I actually don't plan to read them all in at once, only as needed, but I
>> do need the whole file in an array to perform some mathematics on them and
>> compare different files. So my interest was in making it faster to open them
>> as needed. I guess part of it is that they are about 5mb so I guess it might
>> be disk speed in part.nks
>>
>>
>
> Record your numbers in an array and then work your magic on them later.
> Don't store the entire file in memory, though.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
>
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From rzantow at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 19:25:10 2010
From: rzantow at gmail.com (rzed)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:25:10 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9D25C58B7B52Crzantowgmailcom@74.209.131.13>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote in
news:hlls5c$89l$1 at news.eternal-september.org: 

> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win
> XP into executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like
> snowball.py to snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds
> snowball.py but not snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes.
> What's up with that? 

There is a ludicrous setting in Windows explorer that hides the 
extensions for known file types, such as .exe. If you see "snowball" 
in Win Explorer, that's probably the way your system is set. If you 
click on Tools . Folder Options . View you should see a checkbox for 
the "Hide extensions for known file types" option. Uncheck it, and the 
disappearing program will return to view.

This is a separate issue for why snowball.py executes when you enter 
"snowball" at the command line.

-- 
rzed


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 20 19:32:53 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:32:53 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002201632n43b64dd2gfcd7081f06a8c748@mail.gmail.com>

> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
> exception,
> is that possible ?

try:
    # here is your error
except:
    pass

# this will get executed no matter what

See http://docs.python.org/tutorial/errors.html

HTH,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From timr at probo.com  Sat Feb 20 19:49:57 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:49:57 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<mailman.2746.1266531087.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oo01o51qi2utdjjji912mnmp7ad1vgq696@4ax.com>

Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> wrote:

>On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? Python isn't ready for this. ?Not with the GIL.
>
>Is any language, save perhaps Erlang, really ready for it?

F# is.  I only wish the syntax was a little less Perl-like.  Too many
special characters.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From marwie at gmx.de  Sat Feb 20 19:55:10 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
Message-ID: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2
being lists)

    l1.extend(l2)

is more efficient than

    l1 = l1 + l2

because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
and store it in l2. Then I can write

    l2 = l1[10:]
    del l1[10:]

But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied.
Basically, I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which
returns and removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and
if not, why not?)

Cheers,
Martin.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 19:56:53 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:56:53 +0000
Subject: The Disappearing Program?
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D25C58B7B52Crzantowgmailcom@74.209.131.13>
References: <hlls5c$89l$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<Xns9D25C58B7B52Crzantowgmailcom@74.209.131.13>
Message-ID: <4B8084D5.2010006@mrabarnett.plus.com>

rzed wrote:
> "W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote in
> news:hlls5c$89l$1 at news.eternal-september.org: 
> 
>> I've successfully compiled several small python programs on Win
>> XP into executables using py2exe. A program goes from a name like
>> snowball.py to snowball. A dir in the command prompt window finds
>> snowball.py but not snowball. If I type in snowball, it executes.
>> What's up with that? 
> 
> There is a ludicrous setting in Windows explorer that hides the 
> extensions for known file types, such as .exe. If you see "snowball" 
> in Win Explorer, that's probably the way your system is set. If you 
> click on Tools . Folder Options . View you should see a checkbox for 
> the "Hide extensions for known file types" option. Uncheck it, and the 
> disappearing program will return to view.
> 
The problem with that setting is that an .exe file could masquerade as
some other type, eg "foo.txt.exe" would appear as "foo.txt", so you
might have thought that you were safe opening it because it's just text.

> This is a separate issue for why snowball.py executes when you enter 
> "snowball" at the command line.
> 



From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 20:05:35 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:05:35 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
Message-ID: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>

Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets so
slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6 64bit).
The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure what
is happening.
Any ideas
Thanks

*Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:06:36 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:06:36 -0800
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201706k27236296qcaa20e7580ed710d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:55 PM, marwie <marwie at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2
> being lists)
>
> ? ?l1.extend(l2)
>
> is more efficient than
>
> ? ?l1 = l1 + l2
>
> because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
> if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
> say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
> and store it in l2. Then I can write
>
> ? ?l2 = l1[10:]
> ? ?del l1[10:]
>
> But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied.
> Basically, I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which
> returns and removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and
> if not, why not?)
>

The idiom is:

>>> l1, l2 = l1[:10], l1[10:]

Don't know if it's optimized or not. If it's not, it could probably
be. This is a really common idiom.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 20:07:59 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:07:59 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>

> Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
> files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets so
> slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
> shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6 64bit).
> The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure what
> is happening.
> Any ideas
> Thanks
>
> import csv, os, glob
import sys

def read_data_file(filename):
    reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')

    data = []
    mask = []
    outliers = []
    modified = []

    data_append = data.append
    mask_append = mask.append
    outliers_append = outliers.append
    modified_append = modified.append

    maskcount = 0
    outliercount = 0
    modifiedcount = 0

    for row in reader:
        if '[MASKS]' in row:
            maskcount += 1
        if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
            outliercount += 1
        if '[MODIFIED]' in row:
            modifiedcount += 1
        if not any((maskcount, outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
            data_append(row)
        elif not any((outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
            mask_append(row)
        elif not any((modifiedcount, not row)):
            outliers_append(row)
        else:
            if row: modified_append(row)

    data = data[1:]
    mask = mask[3:]
    outliers = outliers[3:]
    modified = modified[3:]

    return [data, mask, outliers, modified]


def ImportDataFrom(folder):
    print 'Importing files from: ', folder
    alldata = dict()
    infolder = glob.glob( os.path.join(folder, '*.txt') )
    numfiles = len(infolder)
    print 'Importing ' + str(numfiles) + ' files from: ', folder
    for infile in infolder:
        print "Loading into memory: " + os.path.split(infile)[1]
        fname = os.path.split(infile)[1]

        filedata = dict(zip([fname + '_data', fname + '_mask', fname +
'_outliers', fname+'_modified'], read_data_file(infile)))
        print fname + ' has ' + str(len(filedata[fname + '_data'])) + ' rows
of data'
        print fname + ' has ' + str(len(filedata[fname + '_mask'])) + ' rows
of masked data'
        print fname + ' has ' + str(len(filedata[fname + '_outliers'])) + '
rows of outliers'
        print fname + ' has ' + str(len(filedata[fname +'_modified'])) + '
modified rows of data'
        print str(sys.getsizeof(filedata)) +'bytes'' of memory used for '+
fname
        print ' '
        alldata.update(filedata)
        print str(len(alldata)/4) + ' files of ' + str(numfiles) + ' using '
+ str(sys.getsizeof(alldata)) + ' bytes of memory'
    return alldata


ImportDataFrom("/Users/vmd/Dropbox/dna/data/rawdata")
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 20:12:01 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:42:01 +0530
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002201706k27236296qcaa20e7580ed710d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201706k27236296qcaa20e7580ed710d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002201712i23f750f3p9b6d3465552d83bf@mail.gmail.com>

You can always implement your own data-structures or simply a function if
you need so. A language consist of building blocks and not buildings.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:55 PM, marwie <marwie at gmx.de> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2
> > being lists)
> >
> >    l1.extend(l2)
> >
> > is more efficient than
> >
> >    l1 = l1 + l2
> >
> > because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
> > if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
> > say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
> > and store it in l2. Then I can write
> >
> >    l2 = l1[10:]
> >    del l1[10:]
> >
> > But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied.
> > Basically, I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which
> > returns and removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and
> > if not, why not?)
> >
>
> The idiom is:
>
> >>> l1, l2 = l1[:10], l1[10:]
>
> Don't know if it's optimized or not. If it's not, it could probably
> be. This is a really common idiom.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:18:24 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:18:24 -0800
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201718v779c785v1f9b89baa992e41f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:

> Thanks for the help, this is considerably faster and easier to read (see
> below). I changed it to avoid the "break" and I think it makes it easy to
> understand. I am checking the conditions each time slows it but it is worth
> it to me at this time.
>
>
It seems you are beginning to understand that programmer time is more
valuable than machine time. Congratulations.



> def read_data_file(filename):
>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>
>     data = []
>     mask = []
>     outliers = []
>     modified = []
>
>     data_append = data.append
>     mask_append = mask.append
>     outliers_append = outliers.append
>     modified_append = modified.append
>
>

I know some people do this to speed things up. Really, I don't think it's
necessary or wise to do so.


>     maskcount = 0
>     outliercount = 0
>     modifiedcount = 0
>
>     for row in reader:
>         if '[MASKS]' in row:
>             maskcount += 1
>         if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
>             outliercount += 1
>         if '[MODIFIED]' in row:
>             modifiedcount += 1
>         if not any((maskcount, outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
>             data_append(row)
>         elif not any((outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
>             mask_append(row)
>         elif not any((modifiedcount, not row)):
>             outliers_append(row)
>         else:
>             if row: modified_append(row)
>
>

Just playing with the logic here:

1. Notice that if "not row" is True, nothing happens? Pull it out
explicitly.

2. Notice how it switches from mode to mode? Program it more explicitly.

Here's my suggestion:

def parse_masks(reader):
    for row in reader:
        if not row: continue
        elif '[OUTLIERS]' in row: parse_outliers(reader)
        elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
       masks.append(row)

def parse_outliers(reader):
    for row in reader:
        if not row: continue
        elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
       outliers.append(row)

def parse_modified(reader):
    for row in reader:
        if not row: continue
       modified.append(row)

for row in reader:
    if not row: continue
    elif '[MASKS]' in row: parse_masks(reader)
    elif '[OUTLIERS]' in row: parse_outliers(reader)
    elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
    else: data.append(row)

Since there is global state involved, you may want to save yourself some
trouble in the future and put the above in a class where separate parsers
can be kept separate.

It looks like your program is turning into a regular old parser. Any format
that is a little more than trivial to parse will need a real parser like the
above.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 20:30:05 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 01:30:05 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:55:10 -0800, marwie wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2 being
> lists)
> 
>     l1.extend(l2)
> 
> is more efficient than
> 
>     l1 = l1 + l2
> 
> because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
> if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's say
> I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10 and
> store it in l2. Then I can write
> 
>     l2 = l1[10:]
>     del l1[10:]
> 
> But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied. 

Yes, list slicing can't make any sort of assumptions about what you're 
going to do next, so when you take a slice, it has to copy the data.


> Basically,
> I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which returns and
> removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and if not, why
> not?)

Such a list pop would have to copy the data too. How else could it work?

What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?

If you are unhappy that copy-and-remove a slice from a list takes two 
lines instead of one ("won't somebody think of the shortage of 
newlines!!!" *wink*), then just write a helper function and call that:

def copy_and_remove(alist, slice):
    tmp = alist[slice]
    del alist[slice]
    return tmp

l2 = copy_and_remove(l1, slice(10, None))


If you are unhappy that copying slices from lists copies data, well 
that's just the way things are. Don't make the mistake of trying to 
optimize your application before you actually know what bits need 
optimizing.

Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, so copying a slice is 
fast: it doesn't have to copy the objects, just pointers. Deleting from 
the end of the list is also quick, because you don't have to move memory, 
just clear some pointers and change the length field.

Splitting such an array without copying data is, essentially, impossible. 
Python lists aren't linked lists.

But as I said, most of the time copying slices doesn't matter: the time 
taken is unlikely to be a serious factor in practice. If it is (and 
you've profiled your code, right? you're not just guessing what you think 
is fast and slow?) then there may be ways to optimize your code to avoid 
needing to copy slices, but we'd need to know what you're doing with the 
data.


-- 
Steven


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 20:32:28 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:32:28 -0700
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002201718v779c785v1f9b89baa992e41f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201718v779c785v1f9b89baa992e41f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201732m17bb9b74q5c62e279a9bf83b4@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks again for the comment, not sure I will implement all of it but I will
separate the "if not row" The files have some extraneous blank rows in the
middle that I need to be sure not to import as blank rows.
I am actually having trouble with this filling my sys memory, I posted a
separate question "Why is this filling my sys memory" or something like that
is the subject.
I might be that my 1yr old son has been trying to help for the last hour. It
is very distracting.

  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the help, this is considerably faster and easier to read (see
>> below). I changed it to avoid the "break" and I think it makes it easy to
>> understand. I am checking the conditions each time slows it but it is worth
>> it to me at this time.
>>
>>
> It seems you are beginning to understand that programmer time is more
> valuable than machine time. Congratulations.
>
>
>
>> def read_data_file(filename):
>>     reader = csv.reader(open(filename, "U"),delimiter='\t')
>>
>>     data = []
>>     mask = []
>>     outliers = []
>>     modified = []
>>
>>     data_append = data.append
>>     mask_append = mask.append
>>     outliers_append = outliers.append
>>     modified_append = modified.append
>>
>>
>
> I know some people do this to speed things up. Really, I don't think it's
> necessary or wise to do so.
>
>
>>     maskcount = 0
>>     outliercount = 0
>>     modifiedcount = 0
>>
>>     for row in reader:
>>         if '[MASKS]' in row:
>>             maskcount += 1
>>         if '[OUTLIERS]' in row:
>>             outliercount += 1
>>         if '[MODIFIED]' in row:
>>             modifiedcount += 1
>>          if not any((maskcount, outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
>>             data_append(row)
>>         elif not any((outliercount, modifiedcount, not row)):
>>             mask_append(row)
>>         elif not any((modifiedcount, not row)):
>>             outliers_append(row)
>>         else:
>>             if row: modified_append(row)
>>
>>
>
> Just playing with the logic here:
>
> 1. Notice that if "not row" is True, nothing happens? Pull it out
> explicitly.
>
> 2. Notice how it switches from mode to mode? Program it more explicitly.
>
> Here's my suggestion:
>
> def parse_masks(reader):
>     for row in reader:
>         if not row: continue
>         elif '[OUTLIERS]' in row: parse_outliers(reader)
>         elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
>        masks.append(row)
>
> def parse_outliers(reader):
>     for row in reader:
>         if not row: continue
>         elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
>        outliers.append(row)
>
> def parse_modified(reader):
>     for row in reader:
>         if not row: continue
>        modified.append(row)
>
> for row in reader:
>     if not row: continue
>     elif '[MASKS]' in row: parse_masks(reader)
>     elif '[OUTLIERS]' in row: parse_outliers(reader)
>     elif '[MODIFIED]' in row: parse_modified(reader)
>     else: data.append(row)
>
> Since there is global state involved, you may want to save yourself some
> trouble in the future and put the above in a class where separate parsers
> can be kept separate.
>
> It looks like your program is turning into a regular old parser. Any format
> that is a little more than trivial to parse will need a real parser like the
> above.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
>
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From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:34:15 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:34:15 -0800
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201734t217d548elc9c79df9e61ddfb0@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:25 AM, egasimus <fallenblood at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, newbie here. I've read on using the 'global' keyword being
> discouraged; then what is the preferred way to have something, for
> example a class containing program settings, accessible from
> everywhere, in a program spanning multiple files?

One of the powerful concepts to come out of Lisp was "dynamic scope".
This is the ideal solution for configuration and logging.

"Lexical scope" is where the value of the variables are found in the
file it was defined in. This is what Python does, and it's what you're
used to in most other languages.

"Dynamic scope" is where the value of the variables are found by
looking up the call stack. This is similar to perl's "local" keyword.
It's also similar to environment variables, if you consider programs
that run programs that run programs as similar to functions. (If
you're familiar with neither, then that's fine.)

This is useful for a program where you know it needs configuration or
logging, but you don't want to have to specify it as part of the
program. Whoever calls the program needs to configure it and setup
their logger before calling it.

Unfortunately, there is no built-in way to deal with dynamic variables
in Python. But that doesn't mean you can't emulate it explicitly and
clearly!

In order to emulate it, you simply pass the configuration and such
down to the functions you call. Each function or class instance needs
to pass it further along. So, rather than:

  def foo():
      bar()

  def bar()
     ...

you need to have:

  def foo(config):
     bar(config)

  def bar(config):
     ...

Obviously, only certain functions care for the config and logging
setup. Others don't. And obviously, you can modify the value on the
way down. Just be sure to make a copy or you'll change the entire
stack's value for that configuration.

There are a couple of systems that do something close to this. I don't
know of any, except SQLAlchemy, that does this exactly right. WSGI is
also a system that does this right, although I don't know that many
people realize it.

Usually, what people end up doing is setting the config values to some
global in some module. Then everyone is expected to look in that
module for the config. This ends up being messy, particularly for
testing where you'd like to mess with the config without messing with
THE config. You can tell it's messy because people end up writing code
like this:

  old_value = get_config(...)
  set_config(... some new value ...)
  ... do your stuff ...
  set_config(...back to old_value...)

This kind of code is hard to get right. (What happens if there is an
exception before you set the old config back? That's right, you need a
try-finally block.)

In terms of "global", you should only really use "global" when you are
need to assign to a lexically scoped variable that is shared among
other functions. For instance:

def foo():
    i = 0
    def inc(): global i; i+=1
    def dec(): global i; i-=1
    def get(): return i
    return (inc, dec, get)

This really isn't that common, although it is useful. Note that the
above might be better organized into a class instance.

Good luck.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:37:21 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:37:21 -0800
Subject: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz on Cent OS - Python 2.4
In-Reply-To: <9d373498-df99-41ef-b193-0c05073166ff@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <9d373498-df99-41ef-b193-0c05073166ff@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201737o151fe3ddu3f31fe949f254642@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:03 PM, V8 NUT <olaye1977 at googlemail.com> wrote:


> /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libz.so when searching for
> -lz
> /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libz.a when searching for -
> lz
> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz

This is your problem.

>
> Am trying to get MySQL-python-1.2.3c1 installed on a CentOS 5 box
> running Python 2.4
> I do not want to upgrade my Python version.
> I have tried:
>
> 1. yum install mysql-python
> 2. yum install librsync-devel
> 3. yum install python-devel
>
> With all return no errors and a notification that there's nothing to
> install or update.
>

I think you need libz's -devel module. Not sure what libz is or what
its name is in the yum repository. Might take a search or maybe an rpm
-qif /usr/lib/libz.so

The problem could be that mysql-python expects to see a different
version of libz than what's installed on your box. If so, you'll need
to see if you can find the right version.

The MySQL-python people should have more help for you.


-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From agoretoy at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 20:37:54 2010
From: agoretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:37:54 -0600
Subject: datelib pythonification
In-Reply-To: <c9d33c541002201626o4cb51819ycea15bb24933d5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c9d33c541002201626o4cb51819ycea15bb24933d5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002201737t2d9e4863rba08ab7161e850fc@mail.gmail.com>

hello all,
    since I posted this last time, I've added a new function dates_diff and
modified the dates_dict function to set timedelta values returned by
dates_diff in the returned dict

    def dates_dict(self,*targs,**dargs):
        """
            dates_dict() - takes params same as prefs()
                returns dict key/value pair of formatted/calculated dates
                    key is a date, value is timedelta enddate-startdate

        """
        self.prefs(*targs,**dargs)
        d={}
        try:
            if self.format!="":
                d[self.startdate.strftime(self.format)]=self.dates_diff()
            else:
                d[self.startdate]=self.dates_diff()
        except ValueError:
            d["%s"%self.startdate]=self.dates_diff()
        while self.startdate<self.enddate:
            a=self.calc(*targs,**dargs)[0]
            d[a]=self.dates_diff()
        self.reset_dates()
        return d
    def dates_diff(self,*targs):
        """
            dates_diff - return timedelta difference between startdata and
enddate
                takes nothing, a tuple, a list or 2 date objects as params
                return enddate - startdate timedelta

        """
        start,end=(self.startdate,self.enddate)
        if targs:
            if(len(targs)==1):
                if(type(targs[0])==type(()) or targs[0] == type([])):
                    if(len(targs[0])==2):
                        start,end=(targs[0][0],targs[0][1])
            elif(len(targs)== 2):
                if(type(targs[0])==type(date.today()) and targs[1] ==
type(date.today())):
                    start,end=(targs[0],targs[1])
        return end-start

-Alex Goretoy
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 20:41:11 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 01:41:11 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:06:36 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:55 PM, marwie <marwie at gmx.de> wrote:
[...]
>> ? ?l2 = l1[10:]
>> ? ?del l1[10:]
>>
>> But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied. Basically,
>> I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which returns and
>> removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and if not, why
>> not?)
>>
>>
> The idiom is:
> 
>>>> l1, l2 = l1[:10], l1[10:]

No, that has different behaviour to what the Original Poster wants, AND 
it does two copies instead of one:

(1) copy l1[:10] and l1[10:]
(2) assign the names l1 and l2 to them
(3) if, and only if, there are no other references to the original l1, it 
gets deleted (garbage collected).


What the OP is doing is quite different:

(1) copy l1[:10]
(2) assign the name l2 to it
(3) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items.


What the OP wants is:

(1) assign the name l2 to l1[:10] without copying
(2) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items without affecting l2.


-- 
Steven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:41:28 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:41:28 -0800
Subject: speed question, reading csv using takewhile() and dropwhile()
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201732m17bb9b74q5c62e279a9bf83b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002191022j32c5ef76u5955c1432f45e702@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191313g37ee51dfv373f46d2f3b8d555@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002191358r1fc98930m58463423fedc362f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002191536qcd38823lb88a268087487959@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201621x5724cf80uc644f53b80df5bde@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201718v779c785v1f9b89baa992e41f@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201732m17bb9b74q5c62e279a9bf83b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201741g21a94cf4jb77c638cc130d89d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks again for the comment, not sure I will implement all of it but I will separate the "if not row" The files have some extraneous blank rows in the middle that I need to be sure not to import as blank rows.
> I am actually having trouble with this filling my sys memory, I posted a separate question "Why is this filling my sys memory" or something like that is the subject.
> I might be that my 1yr old son has been trying to help for the last hour. It is very distracting.
>

It may be that the csvfile is reading the entire file in, rather than
line-by-line.

--
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sat Feb 20 20:44:57 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:44:57 -0800
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002201744u63a0b280o6268a017292dd33a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>> Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
>> files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets so
>> slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
>> shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6 64bit).
>> The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure what
>> is happening.

With this kind of data set, you should start looking at BDBs or
PostgreSQL to hold your data. While processing files this large is
possible, it isn't easy. Your time is better spent letting the DB
figure out how to arrange your data for you.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From deadpickle at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 20:47:12 2010
From: deadpickle at gmail.com (deadpickle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:47:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: netcdf4-python
Message-ID: <1f7f8347-4c48-42a8-8f80-6175acfb83e9@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to use the python module "netcdf4-python" to read a netcdf
file. So far I'm trying to do the basics and just open the script:

from netCDF4 import Dataset
rootgrp = Dataset('20060402-201025.netcdf', 'r',
format='NETCDF3_CLASSIC')
print rootgrp.file_format
rootgrp.close()

when I do this I get the exit code error (when I run in Scite):

>pythonw -u "netcdf_test.py"
>Exit code: -1073741819
 or Python stops responding (in windows cmd).

I'm not sure what is wrong so if anyone as any ideas I would gladly
send you the netcdf file to try. Thanks.


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 20:53:22 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:53:22 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002201744u63a0b280o6268a017292dd33a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201744u63a0b280o6268a017292dd33a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201753l6b77c2b7xa5cbdf15ba43f4c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

With this kind of data set, you should start looking at BDBs or

PostgreSQL to hold your data. While processing files this large is

possible, it isn't easy. Your time is better spent letting the DB

figure out how to arrange your data for you.


I really do need all of it in at time, It is dna microarray data. Sure there
are 230,00 rows but only 4 columns of small numbers. Would it help to make
them float() ? I need to at some point. I know in numpy there is a way to
set the type for the whole array "astype()" I think.
What I don't get is that it show the size of the dict with all the data to
have only 6424 bytes. What is using up all the memory?

  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net>
> wrote:
> >> Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
> >> files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets
> so
> >> slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
> >> shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6
> 64bit).
> >> The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure
> what
> >> is happening.
>
> With this kind of data set, you should start looking at BDBs or
> PostgreSQL to hold your data. While processing files this large is
> possible, it isn't easy. Your time is better spent letting the DB
> figure out how to arrange your data for you.
>
> --
> Jonathan Gardner
> jgardner at jonathangardner.net
>
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 20:53:46 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 01:53:46 GMT
Subject: if not global -- then what?
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.13.1266716058.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b80922a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:34:15 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> In terms of "global", you should only really use "global" when you are
> need to assign to a lexically scoped variable that is shared among other
> functions. For instance:
> 
> def foo():
>     i = 0
>     def inc(): global i; i+=1
>     def dec(): global i; i-=1
>     def get(): return i
>     return (inc, dec, get)

That doesn't do what you think it does:


>>> def foo():
...     i = 0
...     def inc(): global i; i+=1
...     def dec(): global i; i-=1
...     def get(): return i
...     return (inc, dec, get)
...
>>> inc = foo()[0]
>>> inc()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<stdin>", line 3, in inc
NameError: global name 'i' is not defined


The problem is that i is not global. Inside the inc and dec functions, 
you need to declare i nonlocal, not global, and that only works in Python 
3 or better.



-- 
Steven


From marwie at gmx.de  Sat Feb 20 20:55:18 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:55:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb., 02:30, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, so copying a slice is
> fast: it doesn't have to copy the objects, just pointers. Deleting from
> the end of the list is also quick, because you don't have to move memory,
> just clear some pointers and change the length field.
>
> Splitting such an array without copying data is, essentially, impossible.
> Python lists aren't linked lists.

Well, to split a C array I would simply set l2 to point to l1[10] and
then
change the length of l1 (which I store somewhere else). No copying of
elements
needed. I would have assumed that python can do something like this
with its
internal arrays of pointers, too.

Anyway, this was more a question about coding style. I use
l1.extend(l2) or
l1 += l2 rather than l1 = l1 + l2 because it's as readable and
possibly faster.
I was simply wondering if something similar exists for splitting
lists.



From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 20 21:00:38 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:00:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 2:58?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> miss rate goes up accordingly.

A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
carry through to the cache for the code.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 21:17:47 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:17:47 +1100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/21/10 12:02, Stef Mientki wrote:
> On 21-02-2010 01:21, Lie Ryan wrote:
>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki
<stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hello,
>>>>
>>>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
>>>> exception,
>>>> is that possible ?
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> Stef Mientki
>>>>
>>>>
>> That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"
>>
> I think that's what I'm after ...

First, read this:
http://www.developerfusion.com/code/4325/on-error-resume-next-considered-harmful/

> I already redirected sys.excepthook to my own function,
> but now I need a way to get to continue the code on the next line.
> Is that possible ?

No, not in python. You can (ab)use generators' yield to resume
execution, but not in the general case:

def on_error_resume_next(func):
    def _func(*args, **kwargs):
        gen = func(*args, **kwargs)
        resp = next(gen)
        while isinstance(resp, Exception):
            print 'an error happened, ignoring...'
            resp = next(gen)
        return resp
    return _func

@on_error_resume_next
def add_ten_error_if_zero(args):
    if args == 0:
        # raise Exception()
        yield Exception()
    # return args + 10
    yield args + 10

print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
print add_ten_error_if_zero(10)




A slightly better approach is to retry calling the function again, but
as you can see, it's not appropriate for certain cases:

def retry_on_error(func):
    def _func(*args, **kwargs):
        while True:
            try:
                ret = func(*args, **kwargs)
            except Exception:
                print 'An error happened, retrying...'
            else:
                return ret
    return _func

@retry_on_error
def add_ten_error_if_zero(args):
    if args == 0:
        raise Exception()
    return args + 10

print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
print add_ten_error_if_zero(10)



A much better approach is to use callbacks, the callbacks determines
whether to raise an exception or continue execution:

def handler(e):
    if datetime.datetime.now() >= datetime.datetime(2012, 12, 21):
        raise Exception('The world has ended')
    # else: ignore, it's fine

def add_ten_error_if_zero(args, handler):
    if args == 0:
        handler(args)
    return args + 10

print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, handler)
print add_ten_error_if_zero(10, handler)
print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, lambda e: None) # always succeeds



Ignoring arbitrary error is against the The Zen of Python "Errors should
never pass silently."; not that it is ever a good idea to ignore
arbitrary error, when an exception happens often the function is in an
indeterminate state, and continuing blindly could easily cause havocs.


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 21:43:24 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:43:24 -0500
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <D4F422A5-21C9-4802-996B-DC7A0B4658D1@gmail.com>


On Feb 20, 2010, at 9:17 PM, Lie Ryan wrote:

> On 02/21/10 12:02, Stef Mientki wrote:
>> On 21-02-2010 01:21, Lie Ryan wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki
> <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> hello,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
>>>>> exception,
>>>>> is that possible ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> Stef Mientki
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"
>>> 
>> I think that's what I'm after ...
> 
> First, read this:
> http://www.developerfusion.com/code/4325/on-error-resume-next-considered-harmful/

The link goes to an "Oh dear. Gremlins at work!" page.  

They're probably using On Error Resume Next in their VBScript code and this is the "last resort" page ;-).

S



From ryan at rfk.id.au  Sat Feb 20 21:51:21 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:51:21 +1100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>
	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>  <4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <1266720681.3908.24.camel@durian>

On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 13:17 +1100, Lie Ryan wrote:
> On 02/21/10 12:02, Stef Mientki wrote:
> > On 21-02-2010 01:21, Lie Ryan wrote:
> >>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki
> <stef.mientki at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
> >>>> exception,
> >>>> is that possible ?
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks
> >>>> Stef Mientki
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"
> >>
> > I think that's what I'm after ...
>
> A much better approach is to use callbacks, the callbacks determines
> whether to raise an exception or continue execution:
> 
> def handler(e):
>     if datetime.datetime.now() >= datetime.datetime(2012, 12, 21):
>         raise Exception('The world has ended')
>     # else: ignore, it's fine
> 
> def add_ten_error_if_zero(args, handler):
>     if args == 0:
>         handler(args)
>     return args + 10
> 
> print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, handler)
> print add_ten_error_if_zero(10, handler)
> print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, lambda e: None) # always succeeds


Or if you don't like having to explicitly manage callbacks, you can try
the "withrestart" module:

    http://pypi.python.org/pypi/withrestart/

It tries to pinch some of the good ideas from Common Lisp's
error-handling system.

  from withrestart import *

  def add_ten_error_if_zero(n):
      #  This gives calling code the option to ignore
      #  the error, or raise a different one.
      with restarts(skip,raise_error):
          if n == 0:
              raise ValueError
      return n + 10

  # This will raise ValueError
  print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)

  # This will print 10
  with Handler(ValueError,"skip"):
      print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)

  # This will exit the python interpreter
  with Handler(ValueError,"raise_error",SystemExit):
      print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)



  Cheers,

      Ryan


-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From nagle at animats.com  Sat Feb 20 21:58:42 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:58:42 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>     Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
> 
> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> carry through to the cache for the code.

    That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
Python is not.

    This will get even worse when Unladen Swallow starts generating vast
swaths of unshared x86 instructions.

				John Nagle


From marwie at gmx.de  Sat Feb 20 22:00:29 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:00:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <37cd051e-89d6-44cc-af1b-8ecaf68468b2@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb., 02:41, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> What the OP is doing is quite different:
>
> (1) copy l1[:10]
> (2) assign the name l2 to it
> (3) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items.
>
> What the OP wants is:
>
> (1) assign the name l2 to l1[:10] without copying
> (2) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items without affecting l2.

Assuming you meant l1[10:] instead of l1[:10], that's what I wanted,
yes.


From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sat Feb 20 22:08:18 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:08:18 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <C9662C3C-FA8F-4AEF-81EC-579E88C160B2@gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<654D55F2-B276-44E6-A6EF-A9D3A2B5002F@gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201821o230fea1cpff18a5dacb37e710@mail.gmail.com>
	<C9662C3C-FA8F-4AEF-81EC-579E88C160B2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002201908h10c72304y8025f3adae0beac4@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a sample of the output, It almost instantly uses 2GB and then starts
using VMem. This is probably the right suggestion but it's another thing to
install

> It's probably also worth being aware of guppy's heapy stuff:

http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/heapy_tutorial....<http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/heapy_tutorial.html>I
find it quite nice to have the following to get a quick point-in-time
estimate of my app's memory usage:

print 'Current memory usage: %iMB' % (hpy().heap().stat.size/(1024*1024))


19 files of 43 using 3352 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3_veg_nm_rep1.txt
3_veg_nm_rep1.txt has 228484 rows of data
3_veg_nm_rep1.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3_veg_nm_rep1.txt has 141 rows of outliers
3_veg_nm_rep1.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3_veg_nm_rep1.txt

20 files of 43 using 3352 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3_veg_nm_rep2.txt
3_veg_nm_rep2.txt has 228484 rows of data
3_veg_nm_rep2.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3_veg_nm_rep2.txt has 119 rows of outliers
3_veg_nm_rep2.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3_veg_nm_rep2.txt

21 files of 43 using 3352 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3_veg_phd_rep1.txt
3_veg_phd_rep1.txt has 228484 rows of data
3_veg_phd_rep1.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3_veg_phd_rep1.txt has 63 rows of outliers
3_veg_phd_rep1.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3_veg_phd_rep1.txt

22 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3g_c285-11.txt
3g_c285-11.txt has 228484 rows of data
3g_c285-11.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3g_c285-11.txt has 65 rows of outliers
3g_c285-11.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3g_c285-11.txt

23 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: 3g_c285-42.txt
3g_c285-42.txt has 228484 rows of data
3g_c285-42.txt has 0 rows of masked data
3g_c285-42.txt has 27 rows of outliers
3g_c285-42.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for 3g_c285-42.txt

24 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: A6AF.txt
A6AF.txt has 228484 rows of data
A6AF.txt has 0 rows of masked data
A6AF.txt has 36 rows of outliers
A6AF.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for A6AF.txt

25 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3026_rep1.txt
Grigg_3026_rep1.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3026_rep1.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3026_rep1.txt has 949 rows of outliers
Grigg_3026_rep1.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3026_rep1.txt

26 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3026_rep2.txt
Grigg_3026_rep2.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3026_rep2.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3026_rep2.txt has 361 rows of outliers
Grigg_3026_rep2.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3026_rep2.txt

27 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt
Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt has 41 rows of outliers
Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3026_rep3_both.txt

28 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3131_rep1.txt
Grigg_3131_rep1.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3131_rep1.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3131_rep1.txt has 537 rows of outliers
Grigg_3131_rep1.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3131_rep1.txt

29 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory
Loading into memory: Grigg_3131_rep2.txt
Grigg_3131_rep2.txt has 228484 rows of data
Grigg_3131_rep2.txt has 0 rows of masked data
Grigg_3131_rep2.txt has 238 rows of outliers
Grigg_3131_rep2.txt has 0 modified rows of data
280bytes of memory used for Grigg_3131_rep2.txt

30 files of 43 using 6424 bytes of memory

  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:40 PM, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Feb 20, 2010, at 9:21 PM, Vincent Davis wrote:
>
> See this article for some more info about the reported sizes of things:
>> http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/sys/limits.html
>
>
> <http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/sys/limits.html>Nice article but I
> must have missed something useful to my current issue. Do I get any hints?
>
>
> Oh, sorry, there was the part about getsizeof() not including attributes
> unless the class supplies a __sizeof__ method and a comment at the bottom:
>
> It's probably also worth being aware of guppy's heapy stuff:
> http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/heapy_tutorial....<http://guppy-pe.sourceforge.net/heapy_tutorial.html>
>
> I find it quite nice to have the following to get a quick point-in-time
> estimate of my app's memory usage:
>
> print 'Current memory usage: %iMB' % (hpy().heap().stat.size/(1024*1024))
>
> Put a few of those in at various places in the collection process and you
> should see where you're taking a substantial hit on each pass.
>
> If I remember those numbers right, 5mb != 2.5gb so something along the way
> is doing something very strange.
>
> S
>
>
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From matt.newville at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 22:21:57 2010
From: matt.newville at gmail.com (Matt Newville)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:21:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: netcdf4-python
References: <1f7f8347-4c48-42a8-8f80-6175acfb83e9@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fca62372-2761-494f-bc8a-82eee188791d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 7:47?pm, deadpickle <deadpic... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to use the python module "netcdf4-python" to read a netcdf
> file. So far I'm trying to do the basics and just open the script:
>
> from netCDF4 import Dataset
> rootgrp = Dataset('20060402-201025.netcdf', 'r',
> format='NETCDF3_CLASSIC')
> print rootgrp.file_format
> rootgrp.close()
>
> when I do this I get the exit code error (when I run in Scite):
>
> >pythonw -u "netcdf_test.py"
> >Exit code: -1073741819
>
> ?or Python stops responding (in windows cmd).
>
> I'm not sure what is wrong so if anyone as any ideas I would gladly
> send you the netcdf file to try. Thanks.

If the file is really of NetCDF3 format, scipy.io.netcdf should work.
Replace
  netCDF4.Dataset(filename,'r',format='NETCDF3_CLASSIC')
with
  scipy.io.netcdf.netcdf_open(filename,'r')

--Matt Newville


From python-list at open-sense.com  Sat Feb 20 22:25:19 2010
From: python-list at open-sense.com (Michael Pardee)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:25:19 -0600
Subject: lists of variables
Message-ID: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>

I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following behavior:

>>> a=1
>>> b=2
>>> mylist=[a,b]
>>> print mylist
[1, 2]
>>> a=3
>>> print mylist
[1, 2]

Whoah!  Are python lists only for literals?  Nope:

>>> c={}
>>> d={}
>>> mydlist=[c,d]
>>> print mydlist
[{}, {}]
>>> c['x']=1
>>> print mydlist
[{'x': 1}, {}]

So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
This seems to confirm that:

mydlist[1]['y']=4
>>> print mydlist
[{}, {'y': 4}]

So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
literal to something it is changing the object.  But modifying a list
or dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the
object.

I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
element lists as "pointers":

>>> aa=[1]
>>> bb=[2]
>>> myplist=[aa,bb]
>>> print myplist
[[1], [2]]
>>> aa[0]=3
>>> print myplist
[[3], [2]]


But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
functionality?


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 20 22:34:42 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:34:42 -0800
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002201934qc6148b4j79daac42d05e7afb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Michael Pardee
<python-list at open-sense.com> wrote:
> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following behavior:
>
>>>> a=1
>>>> b=2
>>>> mylist=[a,b]
>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>>>> a=3
>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>
> Whoah! ?Are python lists only for literals? ?Nope:
>
>>>> c={}
>>>> d={}
>>>> mydlist=[c,d]
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {}]
>>>> c['x']=1
>>>> print mydlist
> [{'x': 1}, {}]
>
> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
> This seems to confirm that:
>
> mydlist[1]['y']=4
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {'y': 4}]
>
> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
> literal to something it is changing the object. ?But modifying a list
> or dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the
> object.

Correct. If you want more gory details, read
http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm

> I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
> element lists as "pointers":
>
>>>> aa=[1]
>>>> bb=[2]
>>>> myplist=[aa,bb]
>>>> print myplist
> [[1], [2]]
>>>> aa[0]=3
>>>> print myplist
> [[3], [2]]
>
>
> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?

What do you need that functionality for exactly? It's a rather low-level notion.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 22:40:42 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 03:40:42 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:55:18 -0800, marwie wrote:

> On 21 Feb., 02:30, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, so copying a slice is
>> fast: it doesn't have to copy the objects, just pointers. Deleting from
>> the end of the list is also quick, because you don't have to move
>> memory, just clear some pointers and change the length field.
>>
>> Splitting such an array without copying data is, essentially,
>> impossible. Python lists aren't linked lists.
> 
> Well, to split a C array I would simply set l2 to point to l1[10] and
> then change the length of l1 (which I store somewhere else). No copying
> of elements needed. I would have assumed that python can do something
> like this with its internal arrays of pointers, too.

Python lists aren't C arrays either.

Python lists are *objects*. Everything in Python is an object. 
Consequently, Python lists have a header, which includes the len. You 
don't store the length somewhere else, you store it in the object: this 
makes for less complexity. You can't just point l2 at an arbitrary index 
in an array and expect it to work, it needs a header.

Additionally, Python lists are over-allocated so that appends are fast. A 
list of (say) 1000 items might be over-allocated to (say) 1024 items, so 
that you can do 24 appends before the array is full and the array needs 
to be resized. This means that, on average, Python list appending is O(1) 
instead of O(N). You can't just change the length blindly, you need to 
worry about the over-allocation.

I'm sympathetic to your concern: I've often felt offended that doing 
something like this:

x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
for item in x[1:]:
    process(item)

has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But 
honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.


> Anyway, this was more a question about coding style. I use l1.extend(l2)
> or l1 += l2 rather than l1 = l1 + l2 because it's as readable and
> possibly faster.

I really, really hate augmented assignment for everything other than ints 
and floats because you can't predict what it will do. Take this for 
example:


>>> mylist = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> same_again = mylist
>>> mylist.append(5)
>>> same_again
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

mylist and same_again are the same object, so append and extend behave 
predictably and simply. So is simple too:

>>> mylist = mylist + [-1, -2, -3]
>>> mylist
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, -1, -2, -3]
>>> same_again
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Because you have re-bound the name mylist to a new list, same_again 
doesn't get modified. Nice.

But what about mylist += something else? Is it an in-place modification, 
like extend and append, or a rebinding, like +? Who can remember? The 
answer will depend on whether mylist is a builtin list, or a subclass.

And then there's this mystery:

>>> mylist = [1, 2, 3]
>>> mytuple = (mylist, None)
>>> mytuple[0] += [4]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: 'tuple' object does not support item assignment
>>> mylist
[1, 2, 3, 4]

So in fact, += is *always* a rebinding, but *sometimes* it is an in-place 
modification as well. Yuck.


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sat Feb 20 22:46:33 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:46:33 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7x3a0vfdye.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> writes:
>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
>> carry through to the cache for the code.
>
>    That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
> Python is not.

Emacs in days of yore used a hack called "unexec" to bring its Lisp code
into the pure text segment.  I think it's not used any more because
machines are now big enough that the benefits aren't that great.
Basically in the Emacs build process, you'd start up the C portion of
Emacs, then tell it to load all its Lisp code, then call "unexec".
Unexec basically performed a core dump of the process, then ran
something that manipulated the original Emacs image and the core dump
into a new executable that had the static Lisp code and data now marked
as part of the (immutable) program area.  Unexec necessarily had
platform dependencies, but this was managed with a bunch of ifdefs in a
reasonably clean and maintainable way.  I could imagine doing something
similar with a large Python program.



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 22:58:10 2010
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:58:10 -0800
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c21002201958s1af51adeqf2b8f40fef310375@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Michael Pardee
<python-list at open-sense.com>wrote:

> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?
>

The problem is... Python doesn't have variables. At least not in the way
that you may be used to from other languages. Yeah, it's got data, and data
obviously has to be identifiable in some way, but they aren't put together
like "variables" are. A variable is a box with a name on it, and in that
context a 'list of variables' makes sense. You're moving around the box, or
referencing the box itself. It may happen to have something in it, but that
'something' doesn't really have an identity of its own. Its just.. the thing
that's in box-A.

In Python, everything's an object. And objects don't really have identities
of their own(okay, they do, but its not meaningful except to an identity
test), but they can be named. They object has no flabbering clue what its
named, or how many different people know its name, but hey.

a = 1

In many languages, that's making a variable "a" and assigning it the value
of 1.

In Python, that's making an int object with a value of 1, and giving it a
name in the current namespace. This -isn't- just using dumber/simpler words
to say the same thing :) All(*) python namespaces are really dictionaries
behind the scenes. a = 1 is actually doing, current_namespaces["a"] = 1.

Those may sound similar, but they're really not: most importantly, because
the "a" in another language is a -thing- unto itself which may hold an
object. But "a" in Python is just a label in some dictionary somewhere. You
can get the object a is naming, but you can't get /a/ itself. Its not a
'thing'.

There's no way to make a "list of variables", because /variables/ are the
part that's really missing. If you do:

lst = [a, b]

Python doesn't create a list and put two variables in it. It creates a list,
and while doing so, sees that we want to pass 'a' and 'b' into that list. So
it grabs the actual objects a and b are naming, and puts them in the list.

So, long story short: what's "the python way" to accomplish a "list of
variables"? Well... IMHO, it's to not do so. : )

Make a dict, pass the dict around, there's your list of variables. True, you
can't ever access them /as/ variables, and have to access them as dict
items, but... that's the Python way to do that. If order matters, do an
ordered dict.

HTH,
--S

*: Yes, I know about local namespaces being optimized in CPython to be an
array-like structure. Implementation detail.
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Feb 20 23:09:11 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:09:11 +1100
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fx4v6xi0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Michael Pardee <python-list at open-sense.com> writes:

> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?

You'll need to explain what ?list of variables? functionality is.

If you mean ?collection of name-to-value mappings?, the native mapping
type in Python is ?dict?. If that doesn't meet your needs, you'll need
to be more specific about what behaviour you want.

-- 
 \        ?Most people don't realize that large pieces of coral, which |
  `\       have been painted brown and attached to the skull by common |
_o__)    wood screws, can make a child look like a deer.? ?Jack Handey |
Ben Finney


From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Sat Feb 20 23:18:57 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:18:57 -0600
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eae285401002202018l5a630e8fxeaee6edacbf2b706@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:55 PM, marwie <marwie at gmx.de> wrote:

> Now my question is
> if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
> say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
> and store it in l2. Then I can write
>
>    l2 = l1[10:]
>    del l1[10:]


With Python's list implementation, there's no faster way to split a list
into two parts.  Because Python lists are essentially variable-length
arrays, Python has to copy O(n) references to create l2 and then decrement
O(n) references to remove them from l1.

I wrote an extension type called the blist to handle this and other
problems.  You use it just like you'd use a list, but it has different
performance characteristics.  It uses a hybrid array-tree structure and
performs copy-on-write behind the scenes, so it takes only O(log n) time to
create l2 and only O(log n) time to trim l1.

You'd use it something like this:

>>> from blist import blist
>>> l1 = blist()
>>> # Here, populate l1 as you normally would
>>> l2 = l1[10:]
>>> del l1[10:]

It's available at: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/blist/
--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com>
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 20 23:21:09 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 04:21:09 GMT
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b80b4b4$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:25:19 -0600, Michael Pardee wrote:

> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following
> behavior:
[snip]

I don't see why. It's fairly unusual behaviour to want, and it would be 
surprising if you did this:

def test():
    x = 1
    mylist = [2, 4, x]
    function(mylist)
    assert x == 1

and the assertion failed, even though you never passed x to the function. 
Such behaviour could easily turn into a never-ending source of bugs.


> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.

Python doesn't store variables in lists, it stores objects, always.

Even Python variables aren't variables *grin*, although it's really 
difficult to avoid using the term. Python variables are mappings between 
names (strings) and objects, not memory locations.


> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
> literal to something it is changing the object.  But modifying a list or
> dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the object.

Yes, we talk about name binding (and rebinding) versus mutation. A simple 
example:

>>> alist = blist = []  # bind two names to the same list object
>>> alist.append(1)  # mutate the list (modify in place)
>>> blist
[1]


>>> alist = alist + [2]  # a rebinding operation
>>> blist
[1]
>>> alist
[1, 2]


> I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
> element lists as "pointers":

Yes, that's a standard way to do it, except that by "standard" I mean 
"really really really rare, honestly, hardly anyone does that".

Slightly less rare, but still uncommon, is to wrap objects in an instance:

class Record:
    pass

o = Record()
o.x = 1
o.y = 2
modify(o)
print o.x, o.y

Of course you can make the class as fancy, or as simple, as you want.

But a better approach is to take advantage of Python's ability to return 
multiple values:

x = 1
y = 2
x, y = modify(x, y)

rather than:

x = 1
y = 2
modify([x, y])


Speaking as an old Pascal coder, you won't miss pass-by-reference very 
often.




-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 20 23:37:47 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:37:47 +0000
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B80B89B.1030109@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[snip]
> I'm sympathetic to your concern: I've often felt offended that doing 
> something like this:
> 
> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
> for item in x[1:]:
>     process(item)
> 
> has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But 
> honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.
> 
[snip]
Could lists gain an .items() method with start and end positions? I was
thinking that it would be a 'view', like with dicts in Python 3. Of
course, that would only be worthwhile with very long lists:

x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
for item in x.items(1):
     process(item)


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Feb 21 00:21:47 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:21:47 -0800
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002202121m53c9ba3esc9d1b46dc29ce5f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> What the OP wants is:
>
> (1) assign the name l2 to l1[:10] without copying
> (2) resize l1 in place to the first 10 items without affecting l2.
>

For ten items, though, is it really faster to muck around with array
lengths than just copying the data over? Array copies are extremely
fast on modern processors.

Programmer time and processor time being what it is, I still think my
answer is the correct one. No, it's not what he says he wants, but it
is what he needs.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Feb 21 00:25:37 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:25:37 -0800
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c77dd1671002201925y3b638e0csc6c306032ce87dd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002202125tc9b0fc6p998b9f968ce2ec5f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Michael Pardee
<python-list at open-sense.com> wrote:
>
> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?
>

You're looking for namespaces, AKA dicts.

>>> vars = {}
>>> vars['a'] = 1
>>> vars['b'] = 2
>>> mylist = ['a', 'b']
>>> print [vars[i] for i in mylist] # Here's your dereference
[1,2]
>>> vars['a'] = 3
>>> print [vars[i] for i in mylist]
[3,2]


-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Feb 21 00:34:41 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:34:41 -0800
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <77e831101002201753l6b77c2b7xa5cbdf15ba43f4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201707s733fd4b5nd3da3db55a3e0d44@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002201744u63a0b280o6268a017292dd33a@mail.gmail.com>
	<77e831101002201753l6b77c2b7xa5cbdf15ba43f4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002202134k60db9dceoe2daaf431e76261f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Vincent Davis <vincent at vincentdavis.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Jonathan Gardner?<jgardner at jonathangardner.net>?wrote:
>>
>> With this kind of data set, you should start looking at BDBs or
>> PostgreSQL to hold your data. While processing files this large is
>> possible, it isn't easy. Your time is better spent letting the DB
>> figure out how to arrange your data for you.
>
> I really do need all of it in at time, It is dna microarray data. Sure there are 230,00 rows but only 4 columns of small numbers. Would it help to make them float() ? I need to at some point. I know in numpy there is a way to set the type for the whole array "astype()" I think.
> What I don't get is that it show the size of the dict with all the data to have only?6424 bytes. What is using up all the memory?
>

Look into getting PostgreSQL to organize the data for you. It's much
easier to do processing properly with a database handle than a file
handle. You may also discover that writing functions in Python inside
of PostgreSQL can scale very well for whatever data needs you have.

--
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Feb 21 00:42:14 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:42:14 -0800
Subject: if not global -- then what?
In-Reply-To: <4b80922a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <b41897b6-c7ae-4997-a648-a32cc209c405@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.13.1266716058.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b80922a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002202142p73626c02w2898cc8d84c65fcc@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:34:15 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> In terms of "global", you should only really use "global" when you are
>> need to assign to a lexically scoped variable that is shared among other
>> functions. For instance:
>>
>> def foo():
>> ? ? i = 0
>> ? ? def inc(): global i; i+=1
>> ? ? def dec(): global i; i-=1
>> ? ? def get(): return i
>> ? ? return (inc, dec, get)
>
> That doesn't do what you think it does:
>
>
>>>> def foo():
> ... ? ? i = 0
> ... ? ? def inc(): global i; i+=1
> ... ? ? def dec(): global i; i-=1
> ... ? ? def get(): return i
> ... ? ? return (inc, dec, get)
> ...
>>>> inc = foo()[0]
>>>> inc()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ?File "<stdin>", line 3, in inc
> NameError: global name 'i' is not defined
>
>
> The problem is that i is not global. Inside the inc and dec functions,
> you need to declare i nonlocal, not global, and that only works in Python
> 3 or better.
>

Oops. :-(

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 01:31:44 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:31:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 7:25?pm, Michael Pardee <python-l... at open-sense.com> wrote:
> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following behavior:
>
> >>> a=1
> >>> b=2
> >>> mylist=[a,b]
> >>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
> >>> a=3
> >>> print mylist
>
> [1, 2]
>
> Whoah! ?Are python lists only for literals? ?Nope:
>
> >>> c={}
> >>> d={}
> >>> mydlist=[c,d]
> >>> print mydlist
> [{}, {}]
> >>> c['x']=1
> >>> print mydlist
>
> [{'x': 1}, {}]
>
> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
> This seems to confirm that:
>
> mydlist[1]['y']=4>>> print mydlist
>
> [{}, {'y': 4}]
>
> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
> literal to something it is changing the object. ?But modifying a list
> or dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the
> object.

All correct, very observant for a Python newbie.

To be more

immutable



> I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
> element lists as "pointers":
>
> >>> aa=[1]
> >>> bb=[2]
> >>> myplist=[aa,bb]
> >>> print myplist
> [[1], [2]]
> >>> aa[0]=3
> >>> print myplist
>
> [[3], [2]]
>
> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?

Python doesn't have variable references (except in a limited way; see
below), so unless you want to use lists as pointers, I'd recommend
rethinking the problem.  Occasionally I feel like I'd like to be able
to do this, but usually another way exists that is, at worst, slightly
more complex.

For some cases the easiest thing is to make all the variables you're
interested in listing attributes of an object (or values of a dict).
Then store a list of names (or keys).

class X(object): pass
x = X()
x.foo = 1
x.bar = 2
s = ["foo","bar"]
setattr(x,s[0],3)
print x.foo # prints 3

A rule of thumb in deciding whether to use attributes is whether you
will typically know their names in your code ahead of time; if so
storing the values as attributes is a good idea.  If you are inputing
or calculating the names, then it's better to use a dict.


** The one place where Python does have references is when accessing
variables in an enclosing scope (not counting module-level).  But
these references aren't objects, so you can't store them in a list, so
it can't help you:

def f():
    s = []
    a = 1
    def g():
        print a
        s.append(a)
    g() # prints 1
    a = 2
    g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to f's a
    print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]


Carl Banks


From imranalii84 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 01:32:51 2010
From: imranalii84 at gmail.com (babu lohar)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: come and join www.pakdub.com a social network with full features like
	games, classifieds, forums, blogs and a lot more
Message-ID: <53c431ab-87a4-4798-9616-37cfbabfb289@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

come and join www.pakdub.com a social network with full features like
games, classifieds, forums, blogs and a lot more


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 01:38:53 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:38:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2df4ab82-7877-43f5-ac00-a780885e1950@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 4:55?pm, marwie <mar... at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I recently read about augmented assignments and that (with l1, l2
> being lists)
>
> ? ? l1.extend(l2)
>
> is more efficient than
>
> ? ? l1 = l1 + l2
>
> because unnecessary copy operations can be avoided. Now my question is
> if there's a similar thing for breaking a list into two parts. Let's
> say I want to remove from l1 everything from and including position 10
> and store it in l2. Then I can write
>
> ? ? l2 = l1[10:]
> ? ? del l1[10:]
>
> But since I'm assigning a slice the elements will be copied.

That's about the best you can do with Python lists.


> Basically, I'm looking for something like l1.pop(10,len(l1)) which
> returns and removes a whole chunk of data. Is there such a thing (and
> if not, why not?)

Numpy arrays can share underlying data like that when you take
slices.  For instance, this probably works the way you want:

a = numpy.array([1,2,3,4,5,6])
b = a[:3]
c = a[3:]

None of the actual data was copied here.



Carl Banks


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 01:48:36 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 06:48:36 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.27.1266729715.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b80d744$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:21:47 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> <steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> What the OP wants is:
>>
>> (1) assign the name l2 to l1[:10] without copying (2) resize l1 in
>> place to the first 10 items without affecting l2.
>>
>>
> For ten items, though, is it really faster to muck around with array
> lengths than just copying the data over? Array copies are extremely fast
> on modern processors.

My mistake, he actually wants l1[10:] copied. So you might be copying a 
huge amount of data, not just ten items.

Or if you prefer, replace 10 by 100000000.

But in either case, I agree that *in practice* it's rarely an actual 
problem.


> Programmer time and processor time being what it is, I still think my
> answer is the correct one. No, it's not what he says he wants, but it is
> what he needs.

You missed the point that your suggestion gives radically different 
behaviour to what the OP indicated he is using. He mutates the list in 
place, you rebind the list's name. That has *very* different semantics.


>>> a = b = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> del a[2:]  # mutate in place
>>> b
[1, 2]
>>>
>>> a = b = [1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> a = a[2:]  # rebind the name
>>> b
[1, 2, 3, 4]

The OP may not care about the difference, but if he does require the 
first behaviour, then your solution doesn't help.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 01:50:24 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 06:50:24 GMT
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:31:44 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> The one place where Python does have references is when accessing
> variables in an enclosing scope (not counting module-level).  

What makes you say that?

> But these
> references aren't objects, so you can't store them in a list, so it
> can't help you:

I don't even understand this. Your own example clearly shows that the are 
objects and you can store them in a list, so I have no understanding of 
what you mean.


> def f():
>     s = []
>     a = 1
>     def g():
>         print a

a is a name bound to an object which inherits a __str__ method, hence you 
can print it.

>         s.append(a)

a is bound to an object you can put in a list.

>     g() # prints 1
>     a = 2
>     g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to f's a 
>     print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]

Yes, you are correct that lexical scoping doesn't allow the OP to embed 
references to names in lists. I'm just confused why you think that 
lexical scoping is equivalent to references that can't be put in lists, 
or why you think this behaviour is any different from lexical scoping 
everywhere else?

# Instead of two scopes, f and g, use two scopes, the module (global)
# and local scope g:
s = []
a = 1
def g():
    print a
    s.append(a)

g() # prints 1
a = 2
g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to the global a 
print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]


There is no difference between lexical scoping between a function and a 
nested function, and the lexical scoping between the global namespace and 
a nested function.



-- 
Steven


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 02:12:33 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:12:33 +1300
Subject: Shipping Executables
References: <68346d02-9fc2-491b-b284-a7d6251914a2@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<pan.2010.02.17.02.11.15@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<3de8e1f71002162210r7bb1a99eo585831d8d523532e@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2641.1266390065.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.17.07.36.09@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlqmd2$6dl$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:00:59 -0500, geremy condra quoted Banibrata Dutta
> <banibrata.dutta at gmail.com>:
> 
>>> BTW for people who are non-believers in something being worth stealing
>>> needing protection, need to read about the Skype client.
> 
> Pardon me for breaking threading, but the original post has not come 
> through to my provider, only the reply from Geremy.
> 
> Many things are worth stealing and therefore need protection.
> 
> In any case, reverse engineering software is not theft. And even if it 
> were, keeping the source code secret is no barrier to a competent, 
> determined attacker or investigator. Skype is a good example: despite the 
> lack of source code and the secret protocol, analysts were able to 
> discover that TOM-Skype sends personally identifiable information, 
> encryption keys and private messages back to central servers.
> 
> In my personal opinion, releasing closed source software is prima facie 
> evidence that the software is or does something bad: leaking personal 
> information, infringing somebody else's copyright or patent, or just 
> being badly written. I'm not saying that every piece of closed source 
> software is like that, but when you hide the source, the burden of proof 
> is on you to prove that you're not hiding something unpleasant.

You are assuming that everyone who might be interested in copying your code is 
able to reverse-engineer it.  That might be true for software with a high 
commercial value, but it is by no means true for all software.  And in saying 
"when you hide the source, the burden of proof is on you to prove that you're 
not hiding something unpleasant" you are tacitly assuming that the users of the 
software care about having such a thing proven.  I submit that most users do not 
have this "guilty until proven innocent" attitude.

To give a personal example: I plan soon to distribute (free) to anyone 
interested some scientific software.  For various reasons I do not intend to 
distribute the source code at this stage.  I'm quite confident that the users 
(biologists) will have neither the desire nor the ability to reverse-engineer 
it.  Of course I'd be tremendously flattered if they did want to.  I'm also 
confident that they will not suspect me of "hiding something unpleasant".  In 
the worst case they might think the program is useless.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 02:44:29 2010
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:44:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <efaf260f-706b-4512-ae01-dfb91d33e504@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 10:50?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:31:44 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> > The one place where Python does have references is when accessing
> > variables in an enclosing scope (not counting module-level). ?
>
> What makes you say that?
>
> > But these
> > references aren't objects, so you can't store them in a list, so it
> > can't help you:
>
> I don't even understand this. Your own example clearly shows that the are
> objects and you can store them in a list, so I have no understanding of
> what you mean.
>
> > def f():
> > ? ? s = []
> > ? ? a = 1
> > ? ? def g():
> > ? ? ? ? print a
>
> a is a name bound to an object which inherits a __str__ method, hence you
> can print it.
>
> > ? ? ? ? s.append(a)
>
> a is bound to an object you can put in a list.
>
> > ? ? g() # prints 1
> > ? ? a = 2
> > ? ? g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to f's a
> > ? ? print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]
>
> Yes, you are correct that lexical scoping doesn't allow the OP to embed
> references to names in lists. I'm just confused why you think that
> lexical scoping is equivalent to references that can't be put in lists,
> or why you think this behaviour is any different from lexical scoping
> everywhere else?
>
> # Instead of two scopes, f and g, use two scopes, the module (global)
> # and local scope g:
> s = []
> a = 1
> def g():
> ? ? print a
> ? ? s.append(a)
>
> g() # prints 1
> a = 2
> g() # prints 2: g's a is a reference to the global a
> print s # prints [1,2] not [2,2]
>
> There is no difference between lexical scoping between a function and a
> nested function, and the lexical scoping between the global namespace and
> a nested function.


http://tinyurl.com/8e7tm



Carl Banks


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 02:45:16 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 9:58?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >> ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> >> copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> >> miss rate goes up accordingly.
>
> > A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> > carry through to the cache for the code.
>
> ? ? That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module. ?The
> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
> Python is not.

Of course.  Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
to call exec() or the equivalent.

It works fine if you use os.fork().


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 03:22:56 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:22:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <2c9cf10c-90fc-4b08-9f71-a5a7fb1f8a32@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 6:08?pm, "Martin v. Loewis" <mar... at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> >> class C1:
>
> >> ? ? ?# Pure virtual
> >> ? ? ?def cb(self, param1, param2):
> >> ? ? ? ? ?"""
> >> ? ? ? ? ?This is a callback
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ?@param param1: ...
> >> ? ? ? ? ?@param param2: ...
> >> ? ? ? ? ?"""
> >> ? ? ? ? ?raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
>
> >> # Dispatcher function that calls 'cb' only if 'cb' is implemented in
> >> child classes
> >> def dispatcher(c):
> >> ? ? ?if hasattr(c, 'cb'):
> >> ? ? ? ? ?c.cb("Hello", "World")
>
> >> dispatcher(C2())
> >> dispatcher(C3())
>
> >> What I want is the ability to have the dispatcher() not to call 'cb'
> >> if it was not implemented in one of the child classes.
>
> >> Please advise.
>
> > There is nothing more beyond that what you already did. You can raise a
> > NotImplementedError for classes that don't implement the method. That's it.
>
> That's not true. Currently, the hasattr() call would report that cb is
> available, when it is actually not implemented. It would be possible to
> do something like
>
> ? if hasattr(c, 'cb') and not is_pure(c.cb):
> ? ? ? c.cb("Hello", "World")
>
> is_pure could, for example, look at a function attribute of the
> callback. You'd write something like
>
> ? @pure_virtual
> ? def cb(self, param1, param2):
> ? ? ? not_implemented
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Hello Martine,

Can you elaborate more on how to use the mechanism you described?

Thanks,
Elias


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 03:27:24 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:27:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks everyone for the answers.

The dispatcher() is actually sits in C++ code.

So my code receives an object that is an instance of the base class,
it PyObject_GetAttrString(py_obj, 'funcname'). If the attribute exists
I will call PyObject_CallMethod on it.

If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
implement the cb. Now the base class should define it so that doc
parsers properly describe the base class.

The recipe suggested is not worth the trouble.
Unfortunately I cannot use abc module since I use Python 2.5


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Feb 21 04:16:11 2010
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:16:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: datelib pythonification
References: <c9d33c541002201626o4cb51819ycea15bb24933d5d@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.15.1266716296.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b11a98b1-4e43-4d74-88d7-9b24cd0743ed@o16g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 12:37?pm, alex goretoy <agore... at gmail.com> wrote:
> hello all,
> ? ? since I posted this last time, I've added a new function dates_diff and

[SNIP]

I'm rather unsure of the context of this posting ... I'm assuming that
the subject "datelib pythonification" refers to trying to make
"datelib" more "pythonic", with which you appear to need help.

Looking just at the new "function" (looks like a method to me)
dates_diff, problems include:

1. Mostly ignores PEP-8 about spaces after commas, around operators
2. Checks types
3. Checks types using type(x) == type(y)
4. Inconsistent type checking: checks types in case of
dates_diff(date1, date2) but not in case of dates_diff([date1, date2])
5. Doesn't check for 3 or more args.
6. The 0-arg case is for what purpose?
7. The one-arg case is overkill -- if the caller has the two values in
alist, all you are saving them from is the * in dates_diff(*alist)
8. Calling type(date.today()) once per 2-arg call would be a gross
extravagance; calling it twice per 2-arg call is mind-boggling.
9. start,end=(targs[0][0],targs[0][1]) ... multiple constant
subscripts is a code smell; this one is pongier than usual because it
could easily be replaced by start, end = targs[0]

Untested fix of problems 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9:

DATE_TYPE = type(date.today())

def dates_diff(self, *targs):
    nargs = len(targs)
    if nargs == 0:
        return self.enddate - self.startdate
    if nargs == 1:
        arg = targs[0]
        if not isinstance(arg, (list, tuple)) or len(arg) != 2:
            raise Exception(
                "single arg must be list or tuple of length 2")
        start, end = arg
    elif nargs == 2:
        start, end = targs
    else:
        raise Exception("expected 0,1, or 2 args; found %d" % nargs)
    if isinstance(start, DATE_TYPE) and isinstance(end, DATE_TYPE):
        return end - start
    raise Exception("both values must be of type DATE_TYPE")

HTH,

John



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 21 04:24:24 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:24:24 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <2c9cf10c-90fc-4b08-9f71-a5a7fb1f8a32@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7uahviFlubU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <4B801711.7040501@v.loewis.de>
	<2c9cf10c-90fc-4b08-9f71-a5a7fb1f8a32@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B80FBC8.3070102@v.loewis.de>

>> That's not true. Currently, the hasattr() call would report that cb is
>> available, when it is actually not implemented. It would be possible to
>> do something like
>>
>>   if hasattr(c, 'cb') and not is_pure(c.cb):
>>       c.cb("Hello", "World")
>>
>> is_pure could, for example, look at a function attribute of the
>> callback. You'd write something like
>>
>>   @pure_virtual
>>   def cb(self, param1, param2):
>>       not_implemented
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin
> 
> Hello Martine,
> 
> Can you elaborate more on how to use the mechanism you described?

There are various ways to do it; the one I had in mind uses function
attributes:

def pure_virtual(func):
  func.pure_virtual = True # only presence of attribute matters,
                           # not value
  return func

def is_pure(method): # method might be either a method or a function
  try:
    func = method.im_func
  except AttributeError:
    func = method
  return hasattr(func, 'pure_virtual')

not_implemented = object() # could also write pass instead, or raise

HTH,
Martin


From as at sci.fi  Sun Feb 21 04:40:19 2010
From: as at sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:40:19 +0200
Subject: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz on Cent OS - Python 2.4
References: <9d373498-df99-41ef-b193-0c05073166ff@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <vg3y6inlyf0.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi>

V8 NUT <olaye1977 at googlemail.com> writes:

> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

Could it be you're missing zlib-devel? What does yum info zlib-devel
say? Or locate libz?


From noamraph at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 04:42:56 2010
From: noamraph at gmail.com (Noam Yorav-Raphael)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:42:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
Message-ID: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
Python shell!

Some highlights:

* Has whatever you would expect from a graphical Python shell -
attribute completion, tooltips which show how to call functions,
highlighting of matching parentheses, etc.
* Fixes a lot of IDLE nuisances - in DreamPie interrupt always works,
history recall and completion works as expected, etc.
* Results are saved in the Result History.
* Long output is automatically folded so you can focus on what's
important.
* Jython and IronPython support makes DreamPie a great tool for
exploring Java and .NET classes.
* You can copy any amount of code and immediately execute it, and you
can also copy code you typed interactively into a new file, with the
Copy Code Only command. No tabs are used!
* Free software licensed under GPL version 3.

Check it out at http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/ and tell me what you
think!

Have fun,
Noam


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 05:21:44 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:21:44 +1100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b810953$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/21/10 19:27, lallous wrote:
<snip>
> If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
> would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
> want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
> implement the cb. 

That sounds like a microoptimization; have you profiled your code and
determined that calling empty function causes a bottleneck? I doubt it.

> Now the base class should define it so that doc
> parsers properly describe the base class.

> The recipe suggested is not worth the trouble.
> Unfortunately I cannot use abc module since I use Python 2.5

Because nobody here could have guessed that your dispatcher was written
in C++; your problem is near trivial if your dispatcher is a pure-python
code.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 05:25:03 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:25:03 +1100
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <4b80b4b4$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b80b4b4$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4b810a1a$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/21/10 15:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
> Python doesn't store variables in lists, it stores objects, always.
> 
> Even Python variables aren't variables *grin*, although it's really 
> difficult to avoid using the term. Python variables are mappings between 
> names (strings) and objects, not memory locations.

Actually, no programming languages have used the term "variable"
correctly, as per its original mathematical definition.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 06:17:50 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 11:17:50 GMT
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<efaf260f-706b-4512-ae01-dfb91d33e504@k18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b81165e$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:44:29 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Feb 20, 10:50?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:

>> What makes you say that?
[...]
>> I don't even understand this.
[...]
>> I'm just confused why you think that
>> lexical scoping is equivalent to references that can't be put in lists,
>> or why you think this behaviour is any different from lexical scoping
>> everywhere else?

> http://tinyurl.com/8e7tm

Ha ha ha, very amusing. But I was genuinely confused, because I know 
you're an experienced Python coder and not some n00b, so I thought maybe 
you were referring to something that escaped me. Your response, apt 
though it may be, does nothing to clear up my confusion.

Presumably if you had a serious response you would have made it, so I'll 
chalk it up to a generalised confusion field.

*wink*


-- 
Steven


From aaan at email.dk  Sun Feb 21 07:51:36 2010
From: aaan at email.dk (Aage Andersen (REMOVE))
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:51:36 +0100
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b812c5b$0$56795$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>

I tried to edit the awfully colors, here are the results:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dreampie.py", line 4, <module>()
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 972, main()
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 153, 
__init__(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"), 
pyexec='C:\\Python26\\python.exe')
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 829, 
configure(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"))
  File "dreampielib\gui\tags.pyc", line 224, 
apply_theme_text(textview=<gtk.Tex...xd82038)>, 
textbuffer=<gtk.Tex...xd816d0)>, theme={('bracket-match', 'bg', 'color'): 
'darkblue', ('bracket-match', 'bg', 'isset'): True, ('bracket-match', 'fg', 
'color'): 'white', ('bracket-match', 'fg', 'isset'): False, ...})
ValueError: unable to parse colour specification

Now the program don't run.

Aage




From aaan at email.dk  Sun Feb 21 08:06:54 2010
From: aaan at email.dk (Aage Andersen (REMOVE))
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 14:06:54 +0100
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b812c5b$0$56795$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <4b812ff1$0$56776$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>

I reinstalled and got this message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dreampie.py", line 4, <module>()
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 972, main()
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 153, 
__init__(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"), 
pyexec='C:\\Python26\\python.exe')
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 829, 
configure(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"))
  File "dreampielib\gui\tags.pyc", line 224, 
apply_theme_text(textview=<gtk.Tex...xd82038)>, 
textbuffer=<gtk.Tex...xd816d0)>, theme={('bracket-match', 'bg', 'color'): 
'darkblue', ('bracket-match', 'bg', 'isset'): True, ('bracket-match', 'fg', 
'color'): 'white', ('bracket-match', 'fg', 'isset'): False, ...})
ValueError: unable to parse colour specification

Aage




From noamraph at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 08:18:23 2010
From: noamraph at gmail.com (Noam Yorav-Raphael)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:18:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b812c5b$0$56795$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
	<4b812ff1$0$56776$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <bbb99d46-3736-47d5-a874-5989fcfa9ae5@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Delete \Documents and Settings\<username>\DreamPie and it should now
work.
Did you edit the colors using the configuration window or manually?
If you edited them using the configuration window, can you give
instructions on how to reproduce the bug?

Noam

On Feb 21, 3:06?pm, "Aage Andersen" <aaan(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote:
> I reinstalled and got this message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "dreampie.py", line 4, <module>()
> ? File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 972, main()
> ? File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 153,
> __init__(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"),
> pyexec='C:\\Python26\\python.exe')
> ? File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 829,
> configure(self=DreamPie(path..."window_main"))
> ? File "dreampielib\gui\tags.pyc", line 224,
> apply_theme_text(textview=<gtk.Tex...xd82038)>,
> textbuffer=<gtk.Tex...xd816d0)>, theme={('bracket-match', 'bg', 'color'):
> 'darkblue', ('bracket-match', 'bg', 'isset'): True, ('bracket-match', 'fg',
> 'color'): 'white', ('bracket-match', 'fg', 'isset'): False, ...})
> ValueError: unable to parse colour specification
>
> Aage



From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 10:54:31 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:54:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Which mock library do you prefer?
References: <f3baba98-a0fc-4c6a-9fff-661da8356bc0@h2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<eeaaa811-5c13-4eb2-932a-87062a726660@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com> 
	<3ed54f46-c20b-4c02-81fc-76b12d3e9b25@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<b34ff0c9-e5fb-4f7a-a621-8f816b4e47fa@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com> 
	<485b80f9-96c7-4946-8f38-44eb7d81fe1d@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<87sk90c499.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<e88f4781-4b1f-4a9d-8c61-3a13c854c280@d27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<87tytfbaq6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <fd543b70-b2bb-44b1-9a9f-a4c6b33a55e3@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 18, 3:20?am, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Lacrima <lacrima.ma... at gmail.com> writes:
> > Right, isolation [of test cases] is essential. But I can't decide to
> > which extent I should propagate isolation.
>
> You used ?propagate? in a sense I don't understand there.
>
> > For example, in "Python Testing: Beginner's Guide" by Daniel Arbuckle,
> > author suggests that if you do unittesting you should isolate the
> > smallest units of code from each other.
>
> I'm not sure what the author means, but I would say that as it stands
> that advice is independent of what testing is being done. In all cases:
>
> * Make your code units small, so each one is not doing much and is easy
> ? to understand.
>
> * Make the interface of units at each level as narrow as feasible, so
> ? they're not brittle in the face of changes to the implementation.
>
> > For example, if you have a
> > class:
> > Class SomeClass(object):
> > ? ? def method1(self):
> > ? ? ? ? return 5
> > ? ? def method2(self):
> > ? ? ? ? return self.method1 + 10
>
> > According to the book, if you want to test method2, you should isolate
> > it from method1 and class instance('self').
>
> I don't really know what that means.
>
> Remember that each test case should not be ?test method1?. That is far
> too broad, and in some cases too narrow. There is no one-to-one mapping
> between methods and unit test cases.
>
> Instead, each test case should test one true-or-false assertion about
> the behaviour of the code. ?When we start with this initial state (the
> test fixture), and perform this operation, the resulting state is that?.
>
> It makes a lot of sense to name the test case so the assertion being
> made *is* its name: not ?test frobnicate? with dozens of assertions, but
> one ?test_frobnicate_with_valid_spangulator_returns_true? which makes
> that assertion, and extra ones for each distinct assertion.
>
> The failure of a unit test case should indicate *exactly* what has gone
> wrong. If you want to make multiple assertions about a code unit, write
> multiple test cases for that unit and name the tests accordingly.
>
> This incidentally requires that you test something small enough that
> such a true-or-false assertion is meaningful, which leads to
> well-designed code with small easily-tested code units. But that's an
> emergent property, not a natural law.
>
> > Currently, I don't create mocks of units if they are within the same
> > class with the unit under test. If that is not right approach, please,
> > explain what are best practices... I am just learning TDD..
>
> In the fixture of the unit test case, create whatever test doubles are
> necessary to put your code into the initial state you need for the test
> case; then tear all those down whatever the result of the test case.
>
> If you need to create great honking wads of fixtures for any test case,
> that is a code smell: your code units are too tightly coupled to
> persistent state, and need to be decoupled with narrow interfaces.
>
> The Python ?unittest? module makes this easier by letting you define
> fixtures common to many test cases (the ?setUp? and ?tearDown?
> interface). My rule of thumb is: if I need to make different fixtures
> for some set of test cases, I write a new test case class for those
> cases.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ? ?Following fashion and the status quo is easy. Thinking about |
> ? `\ ? ? ? ?your users' lives and creating something practical is much |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?harder.? ?Ryan Singer, 2008-07-09 |
> Ben Finney

Hi, Ben!!!

Sorry for too late reply!!!
Thank you very much for sharing your experience! I still have to grasp
a lot in TDD.


From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 11:30:27 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:30:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 3:42?am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> Python shell!
>
What versions of Python does it suuport?


From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 11:32:35 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:32:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 10:30?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 3:42 am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> > Python shell!
>
> What versions of Python does it suuport?

What OS are supported?


From skraj23mbec at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 11:46:55 2010
From: skraj23mbec at gmail.com (sk raj)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:46:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Free chat for u.....hot.hot.....hot..............
Message-ID: <1aa805b5-f000-41ba-9718-defd75ee330c@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

http://chattingfree.blogspot.com/


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 11:51:40 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:51:40 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002210851r52e63cen50b6815ab3a15b2f@mail.gmail.com>

http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/download.html

reading is a wonderful thing.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Mensanator <mensanator at aol.com> wrote:

> On Feb 21, 10:30?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 21, 3:42 am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:> I'm
> pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> > > Python shell!
> >
> > What versions of Python does it suuport?
>
> What OS are supported?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 12:13:50 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:13:50 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>

This is bloody fantastic! I must say, this fixes everything I hate about
Ipython and gives me the feature I wished it had (with a few minor
exceptions).

I confirm this working on Kubuntu 9.10 using the ppa listed on the sites
download page.

I also confirm that it works interactively with PyQt4 and PyGtk (as to be
expected since these toolkits use the PyOS_inputhook for the mainloop).
However, it does not work interactively with wx (again, this is as expected
since wx doesn't use the PyOS_inputhook). In short, the gui toolkit support
is the same as in Ipython if you dont use any of the magic threading
switches, which are now deprecated anyway.

Matplotlib does not work interactively for me. Is there a special switch
that needs to be used? or should a pick a non-wx backend? (i'm thinking the
latter is more likely)

A couple of things I would like to see (and will help implement if I can
find the time):
1) A shortcut to show the docstring of an object. Something like Ipython's
`?`. i.e.  `object.foo?` translates to `help(object.foo)`
2) How do I change the color of the blinking cursor at the bottom? I can't
see the damn thing!
3) line numbers instead of the `>>>` prompt
4) a plugin facility where we can define our own `magic` commands. I use
Ipython's %timeit ALL the time.
5) Double-click to re-fold the output section as well.

Thanks for making this!!!!

Cheers,

Chris


On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamraph at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> Python shell!
>
> Some highlights:
>
> * Has whatever you would expect from a graphical Python shell -
> attribute completion, tooltips which show how to call functions,
> highlighting of matching parentheses, etc.
> * Fixes a lot of IDLE nuisances - in DreamPie interrupt always works,
> history recall and completion works as expected, etc.
> * Results are saved in the Result History.
> * Long output is automatically folded so you can focus on what's
> important.
> * Jython and IronPython support makes DreamPie a great tool for
> exploring Java and .NET classes.
> * You can copy any amount of code and immediately execute it, and you
> can also copy code you typed interactively into a new file, with the
> Copy Code Only command. No tabs are used!
> * Free software licensed under GPL version 3.
>
> Check it out at http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/ and tell me what you
> think!
>
> Have fun,
> Noam
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 12:28:01 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:28:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Saving the Interactive Window with PythonWin
Message-ID: <2485b80a-3d51-4627-95d4-eef6dc7a6445@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone,

When I run a python script, I know that I can print the results of my
calculations on the Interactive Window. Once the scripts ends, I can
copy/pate these results on an OpenOffice Writer document.

However, I would like to know if I can somehow add some lines to my
script, so that it saves the Interactive Window to a text file. How
could it be done?

And, is there a way to programatically clear out the Interactive
Window so that it only shows the last run?

Thank you for your help


From iurisilvio at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 12:38:51 2010
From: iurisilvio at gmail.com (Iuri)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:38:51 -0200
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <789aac5a1002210938o513573b3ve3b460ad1a166b74@mail.gmail.com>

I tested it in Windows Vista.

When I type single or double quotes, I get a unicode character, different of
python's quotes, and it break my code.

But i liked this tool! Thanks!

[]s
iuri



On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Chris Colbert <sccolbert at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is bloody fantastic! I must say, this fixes everything I hate about
> Ipython and gives me the feature I wished it had (with a few minor
> exceptions).
>
> I confirm this working on Kubuntu 9.10 using the ppa listed on the sites
> download page.
>
> I also confirm that it works interactively with PyQt4 and PyGtk (as to be
> expected since these toolkits use the PyOS_inputhook for the mainloop).
> However, it does not work interactively with wx (again, this is as expected
> since wx doesn't use the PyOS_inputhook). In short, the gui toolkit support
> is the same as in Ipython if you dont use any of the magic threading
> switches, which are now deprecated anyway.
>
> Matplotlib does not work interactively for me. Is there a special switch
> that needs to be used? or should a pick a non-wx backend? (i'm thinking the
> latter is more likely)
>
> A couple of things I would like to see (and will help implement if I can
> find the time):
> 1) A shortcut to show the docstring of an object. Something like Ipython's
> `?`. i.e.  `object.foo?` translates to `help(object.foo)`
> 2) How do I change the color of the blinking cursor at the bottom? I can't
> see the damn thing!
> 3) line numbers instead of the `>>>` prompt
> 4) a plugin facility where we can define our own `magic` commands. I use
> Ipython's %timeit ALL the time.
> 5) Double-click to re-fold the output section as well.
>
> Thanks for making this!!!!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamraph at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
>> Python shell!
>>
>> Some highlights:
>>
>> * Has whatever you would expect from a graphical Python shell -
>> attribute completion, tooltips which show how to call functions,
>> highlighting of matching parentheses, etc.
>> * Fixes a lot of IDLE nuisances - in DreamPie interrupt always works,
>> history recall and completion works as expected, etc.
>> * Results are saved in the Result History.
>> * Long output is automatically folded so you can focus on what's
>> important.
>> * Jython and IronPython support makes DreamPie a great tool for
>> exploring Java and .NET classes.
>> * You can copy any amount of code and immediately execute it, and you
>> can also copy code you typed interactively into a new file, with the
>> Copy Code Only command. No tabs are used!
>> * Free software licensed under GPL version 3.
>>
>> Check it out at http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/ and tell me what you
>> think!
>>
>> Have fun,
>> Noam
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From vincent at vincentdavis.net  Sun Feb 21 12:44:25 2010
From: vincent at vincentdavis.net (Vincent Davis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:44:25 -0700
Subject: Not sure why this is filling my sys memory
In-Reply-To: <654D55F2-B276-44E6-A6EF-A9D3A2B5002F@gmail.com>
References: <77e831101002201705j6c1fdcbalc91a3fb7d2558ac8@mail.gmail.com>
	<654D55F2-B276-44E6-A6EF-A9D3A2B5002F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77e831101002210944o2e96bf0aj5370961af959d6a3@mail.gmail.com>

@"ssteinerX at gmail.com" <ssteinerx at gmail.com>
"See this article for some more info about the reported sizes of things:
http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/sys/limits.html"

I posted this question on stack overflow. I now have a better appreciation
of ssteinerX suggestions of the above link and guppy, I also had pympler
suggested.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2306523/reading-text-files-into-list-then-storing-in-dictionay-fills-system-memory-a


Thanks again


  *Vincent Davis
720-301-3003 *
vincent at vincentdavis.net
 my blog <http://vincentdavis.net> |
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentdavis>


On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 7:15 PM, ssteinerX at gmail.com <ssteinerx at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Feb 20, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Vincent Davis wrote:
>
> Code is below, The files are about 5mb and 230,000 rows. When I have 43
> files of them and when I get to the 35th (reading it in) my system gets so
> slow that it is nearly functionless. I am on a mac and activity monitor
> shows that python is using 2.99GB of memory (of 4GB). (python 2.6 64bit).
> The getsizeof() returns 6424 bytes for the alldata . So I am not sure what
> is happening.
>
>
> See this article for some more info about the reported sizes of things:
> http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/sys/limits.html
>
> S
>
>
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From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 12:53:45 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:53:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
Message-ID: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
I've tried:

print format(.7,'%%')
.7.format('%%')

but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...

Can you help?

Thank you


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:09:51 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:09:51 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002210851r52e63cen50b6815ab3a15b2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7f014ea61002210851r52e63cen50b6815ab3a15b2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <202C3A0D-E637-4C46-9CB4-BD288BC8F618@gmail.com>


On Feb 21, 2010, at 11:51 AM, Chris Colbert wrote:

> http://dreampie.sourceforge.net/download.html
> 
> reading is a wonderful thing.

I got it running on OS X with MacPorts after about an hour of installing everything required for gtk and gtksourceview (including a new gcc, apparently).

Now...if I can just figure out how to set the font to something I can actually read both size and anti-alias-wise.

S


> 
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Mensanator <mensanator at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 10:30?am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 21, 3:42 am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> > > Python shell!
> >
> > What versions of Python does it suuport?
> 
> What OS are supported?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From tomf.sessile at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:11:19 2010
From: tomf.sessile at gmail.com (TomF)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:11:19 -0800
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2010022110111943658-tomfsessile@gmailcom>

On 2010-02-21 09:53:45 -0800, vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> said:
> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> I've tried:
> 
> print format(.7,'%%')
> .7.format('%%')
> 
> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...

>>> print "Grade is {0:%}".format(.87)
Grade is 87.000000%

or if you want to suppress those trailing zeroes:

>>> print "Grade is {0:.0%}".format(.87)
Grade is 87%



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Feb 21 13:14:21 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:14:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb, 17:32, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 10:30 am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > What versions of Python does it suuport?
>
> What OS are supported?

>From the Web site referenced in the announcement (http://
dreampie.sourceforge.net/):

"""
# Supports Python 2.5, Python 2.6, Jython 2.5, IronPython 2.6 and
Python 3.1.
# Works on Windows and Linux.
"""

Paul


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:14:57 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:14:57 -0500
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
In-Reply-To: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002211014j949dd8dg404fb84b58d66227@mail.gmail.com>

>>> print('%.0f%%' % (0.7*100))
70%

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:53 PM, vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> I've tried:
>
> print format(.7,'%%')
> .7.format('%%')
>
> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...
>
> Can you help?
>
> Thank you
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:15:18 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:15:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <25c91c15-9710-4edd-8e7f-c2057375be39@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 5:53?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> I've tried:
>
> print format(.7,'%%')
> .7.format('%%')
>
> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...

Assuming that you're using Python 2.6 (or Python 3.x):

>>> format(.7, '%')
'70.000000%'
>>> format(.7, '.2%')
'70.00%'

Or see TomF's response for how to use this with the str.format method.

--
Mark


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 13:17:18 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:17:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<2010022110111943658-tomfsessile@gmailcom>
Message-ID: <f2a0fdd6-b97d-4efe-aa38-8cab214f497f@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 7:11?pm, TomF <tomf.sess... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-02-21 09:53:45 -0800, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> said:
>
> > I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> > I've tried:
>
> > print format(.7,'%%')
> > .7.format('%%')
>
> > but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...
> >>> print "Grade is {0:%}".format(.87)
>
> Grade is 87.000000%
>
> or if you want to suppress those trailing zeroes:
>
> >>> print "Grade is {0:.0%}".format(.87)
>
> Grade is 87%

Excellent, works perfect!!!


From gd_usenet at spamfence.net  Sun Feb 21 13:18:05 2010
From: gd_usenet at spamfence.net (=?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:18:05 +0100
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>

vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
>I've tried:
>
>print format(.7,'%%')
>.7.format('%%')
>
>but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...

Did you try this:

>>> print('%d%%' % (0.7 * 100))
70%



Best regards,

G?nther


From john at castleamber.com  Sun Feb 21 13:22:30 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:22:30 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
>> then?
>
> Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in
> functional languages.

Heh! When I learned Miranda it felt natural to me. Prolog on the other
hand...

In short: I am afraid you're overgeneralizing here; it depends on one's
background. If not, citation needed ;-)

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Feb 21 13:28:46 2010
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 10:28:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <238ce1ab-e216-417f-942f-8776370ef266@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb, 03:00, "sjdevn... at yahoo.com" <sjdevn... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 2:58?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>
> > ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> > copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> > miss rate goes up accordingly.
>
> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> carry through to the cache for the code.

True, but the principal issue with CPython and copy-on-write is the
reference counting. Consider a large list shared with the child
processes which is to be processed (either in part or in its entirety)
by each of them. As soon as the child processes start referencing each
of the elements, the reference count for each element object will need
to be changed and pages will start to be copied for each child
process. That's why John wants to avoid the reference counting of
shared data and why the Unladen Swallow project has apparently
considered storing reference counts in separate regions of memory.

Such shared data is really "owned" by the parent process, so it makes
little sense for the child processes to manage it with a view to
collecting it later. After all, such data should have no cost to each
of the child processes (except, perhaps, for the size of the address
space referenced by each process, and any resource issues arising from
managing that).

Paul


From marwie at gmx.de  Sun Feb 21 14:07:24 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:07:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <debd09ca-06ce-4ef2-a977-e677a46deedf@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb., 04:40, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
> Additionally, Python lists are over-allocated so that appends are fast. A
> list of (say) 1000 items might be over-allocated to (say) 1024 items, so
> that you can do 24 appends before the array is full and the array needs
> to be resized. This means that, on average, Python list appending is O(1)
> instead of O(N). You can't just change the length blindly, you need to
> worry about the over-allocation.

Ok, I see your point. However, other data representation might still
be able to optimize such a multi-element pop. I'm thinking of deques,
for example.

> I'm sympathetic to your concern: I've often felt offended that doing
> something like this:
>
> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
> for item in x[1:]:
> ? ? process(item)
>
> has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But
> honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.

Good grief, it copies that, too? I assumed that the copying is at
least delayed until the assignment and that x[1:] is represented by
some wrapper that just shuffles the indices around (much like
the .indices method that MRAB suggested).

Maybe copying chunks of data really isn't that much of an issue as it
used to be (and maybe I'm getting old). The application I have in mind
has to do with symbolic computation, and expressions would be
represented by python lists. It's too early to do any profiling (in
fact, it's at the "deciding if python is the right language to
implement it" stage), but it will have to handle expressions with many
terms (i.e. long lists), and in the end taking these lists apart and
putting them back together in different order is the only thing the
code will do. That to explain my interest in performance issues
related to pyhton lists.

Anyway, thanks for your help.
Martin.


From marwie at gmx.de  Sun Feb 21 14:08:30 2010
From: marwie at gmx.de (marwie)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<2df4ab82-7877-43f5-ac00-a780885e1950@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c9ef869b-8369-45e8-8613-1d06defea348@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Feb., 07:38, Carl Banks <pavlovevide... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Numpy arrays can share underlying data like that when you take
> slices. ?For instance, this probably works the way you want:
>
> a = numpy.array([1,2,3,4,5,6])
> b = a[:3]
> c = a[3:]
>
> None of the actual data was copied here.

Hmm, that might be worth looking into. Thanks.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Feb 21 14:29:22 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:29:22 +0000
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <4B80B89B.1030109@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4B80B89B.1030109@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4B818992.8060703@mrabarnett.plus.com>

MRAB wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> [snip]
>> I'm sympathetic to your concern: I've often felt offended that doing 
>> something like this:
>>
>> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
>> for item in x[1:]:
>>     process(item)
>>
>> has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But 
>> honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.
>>
> [snip]
> Could lists gain an .items() method with start and end positions? I was
> thinking that it would be a 'view', like with dicts in Python 3. Of
> course, that would only be worthwhile with very long lists:
> 
> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
> for item in x.items(1):
>     process(item)

Actually, my example is a bit wrong! My suggestion should have said that
the arguments of list.items would resemble those of range:

x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
for item in x.items(1, None): # [1 : None], or just [1 : ]
     process(item)

Having a third 'stride' argument would also be possible.


From m.11ahesh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 15:24:09 2010
From: m.11ahesh at gmail.com (MY NAME IS MY NAME)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:24:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FOREX : Foreign Exchange Market : FX : Currency Market : Earn Money 
	Quickly.
Message-ID: <d2cfeb77-4de0-484c-8c16-f3b69701d855@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Feb 21 16:18:28 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:18:28 -0800
Subject: How would I do a continuous write over a pipe in the following 
	code...
In-Reply-To: <2NydneBvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
References: <9d0f6456-97c7-4bde-8e07-9576b02f91f9@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<2NydneBvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002211318s3b437bd0pa13e5f239dfe0e29@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:46:24 -0800 (PST), chad <cdalten at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>
>> Given the following....
>>
>> #!/usr/bin/python
>>
>> import subprocess as s
>>
>> broadcast = s.Popen("echo test | wall", shell=True,stdout=s.PIPE)
>>
>> out = broadcast.stdout
>> while 1:
>> ? ? out
>
> ? ? ? ?Does nothing... "out" is a name bound to the object identified by
> "broadcast.stdout"...
>
> ? ? ? ?It does nothing unless it is called as...
>
> ? ? ? ?out(somedata)

I'm pretty sure you meant:

out.write(somedata)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 21 16:22:28 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:22:28 +0100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>

John Nagle wrote:
>    I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
> multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
> ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate
> if the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time,
> but it's worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to
> a lame locking implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded
> code on a dual-core CPU runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core
> CPU, according to Beasley.

I couldn't reproduce these results on Linux. Not sure what "HALF AS
FAST" is; I suppose it means "it runs TWICE AS LONG" - this is what I
couldn't reproduce.

If I run Beazley's program on Linux 2.6.26, on a 4 processor Xeon (3GHz)
machine, I get 30s for the sequential execution, 40s for the
multi-threaded case, and 32s for the multi-threaded case when pinning
the Python process to a single CPU (using taskset(1)).

So it's 6% overhead for threading, and 25% penalty for multicore CPUs -
far from the 100% you seem to expect.

Regards,
Martin


From debacle at debian.org  Sun Feb 21 16:25:11 2010
From: debacle at debian.org (W. Martin Borgert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:25:11 +0100
Subject: Use eval() safely?
Message-ID: <20100221212511.GA23046@beron.tangosoft.com>

Hi,

I know that this issue has been discussed before, but most of
the time using only one argument to eval().

Is it possible to use the following code, e.g. run as part of a
web application, to break in and if so, how?

import math

def myeval(untrustedinput):
    return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
                { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })

Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the
untrusted input string?

Which Python built-ins and math functions would I have to add to
the functions dictionary to make it unsafe?

TIA! (Please cc me, thanks.)


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 21 16:40:41 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:40:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3758eba1-2967-4de3-a3d0-79edc5dd571e@c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 5:55?pm, marwie <mar... at gmx.de> wrote:
> On 21 Feb., 02:30, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
>
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > Python lists are arrays of pointers to objects, so copying a slice is
> > fast: it doesn't have to copy the objects, just pointers. Deleting from
> > the end of the list is also quick, because you don't have to move memory,
> > just clear some pointers and change the length field.
>
> > Splitting such an array without copying data is, essentially, impossible.
> > Python lists aren't linked lists.
>
> Well, to split a C array I would simply set l2 to point to l1[10] and
> then
> change the length of l1 (which I store somewhere else). No copying of
> elements
> needed. I would have assumed that python can do something like this
> with its
> internal arrays of pointers, too.
>

When you remove 10 elements off of a list of size 1000, none of the
objects themselves are moved, but the pointers to the objects are all
moved, so k*990 bytes get moved backward, where k is the size of a
pointer (4 or 8 typically on modern computers).

There is no mechanism to advance a pointer forward when you delete or
pop from the top.

I proposed the following patch to implement an advance-the-pointer
scheme, but it is unlikely to be accepted in the near future:

    http://bugs.python.org/file16034/no_mem_penalty.diff

    http://bugs.python.org/issue7784

You can find alternative data structures that might serve your needs
better, such as collections.deque.

If you are interested in how Python lists work internally, you mostly
want to look at listobject.c:

  http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/listobject.c?view=markup

In particular, look at list_resize(), list_slice(), and
list_ass_slice().



From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 16:40:54 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:40:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 12:14?pm, Paul Boddie <p... at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> On 21 Feb, 17:32, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 10:30 am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > What versions of Python does it suuport?
>
> > What OS are supported?
>
> From the Web site referenced in the announcement (http://
> dreampie.sourceforge.net/):
>
> """
> # Supports Python 2.5, Python 2.6, Jython 2.5, IronPython 2.6 and
> Python 3.1.
> # Works on Windows and Linux.
> """

Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something important like that wasn't part
of the
announcement. I notice no mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website
was a complete
waste of time on my part, wasn't it?

> Paul



From ryan at rfk.id.au  Sun Feb 21 16:45:50 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:45:50 +1100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <1266788750.2990.4.camel@durian>

On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 22:22 +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> John Nagle wrote:
> >    I know there's a performance penalty for running Python on a
> > multicore CPU, but how bad is it?  I've read the key paper
> > ("www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf"), of course.  It would be adequate
> > if the GIL just limited Python to running on one CPU at a time,
> > but it's worse than that; there's excessive overhead due to
> > a lame locking implementation.  Running CPU-bound multithreaded
> > code on a dual-core CPU runs HALF AS FAST as on a single-core
> > CPU, according to Beasley.
> 
> I couldn't reproduce these results on Linux. Not sure what "HALF AS
> FAST" is; I suppose it means "it runs TWICE AS LONG" - this is what I
> couldn't reproduce.
> 
> If I run Beazley's program on Linux 2.6.26, on a 4 processor Xeon (3GHz)
> machine, I get 30s for the sequential execution, 40s for the
> multi-threaded case, and 32s for the multi-threaded case when pinning
> the Python process to a single CPU (using taskset(1)).
> 
> So it's 6% overhead for threading, and 25% penalty for multicore CPUs -
> far from the 100% you seem to expect.

It's far from scientific, but I've seen behaviour that's close to a 100%
performance penalty on a dual-core linux system:

   http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/a-gil-adventure-threading2

Short story:  a particular test suite of mine used to run in around 25
seconds, but a bit of ctypes magic to set thread affinity dropped the
running time to under 13 seconds.


  Cheers,

     Ryan

-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From bartc at freeuk.com  Sun Feb 21 16:54:30 2010
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:54:30 GMT
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qYhgn.42798$Ym4.16651@text.news.virginmedia.com>


"Michael Pardee" <python-list at open-sense.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list at python.org...
> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following 
> behavior:
>
>>>> a=1
>>>> b=2
>>>> mylist=[a,b]
>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>>>> a=3
>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>
> Whoah!  Are python lists only for literals?  Nope:
>
>>>> c={}
>>>> d={}
>>>> mydlist=[c,d]
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {}]
>>>> c['x']=1
>>>> print mydlist
> [{'x': 1}, {}]
>
> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.
> This seems to confirm that:
>
> mydlist[1]['y']=4
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {'y': 4}]
>
> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a

That shows a different outlook. I would have said your first example works 
as expected and it was the second example that was strange, possibly due to 
shallow instead of deep copies by Python.

-- 
Bartc 



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 17:01:25 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:01:25 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0F03CC9E-6D2C-4D70-8327-5B45D475ED07@gmail.com>


On Feb 21, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Mensanator wrote:

> On Feb 21, 12:14 pm, Paul Boddie <p... at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 21 Feb, 17:32, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 10:30 am, Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>> What versions of Python does it suuport?
>> 
>>> What OS are supported?
>> 
>> From the Web site referenced in the announcement (http://
>> dreampie.sourceforge.net/):
>> 
>> """
>> # Supports Python 2.5, Python 2.6, Jython 2.5, IronPython 2.6 and
>> Python 3.1.
>> # Works on Windows and Linux.
>> """
> 
> Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something important like that wasn't part
> of the
> announcement. I notice no mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website
> was a complete
> waste of time on my part, wasn't it?

See my earlier message -- I have it running just fine on 10.6 with MacPorts and even managed to report a bug!

S


> 
>> Paul
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 21 17:05:44 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:05:44 +0100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B81AE38.50501@v.loewis.de>

> It's far from scientific, but I've seen behaviour that's close to a 100%
> performance penalty on a dual-core linux system:
> 
>    http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/a-gil-adventure-threading2
> 
> Short story:  a particular test suite of mine used to run in around 25
> seconds, but a bit of ctypes magic to set thread affinity dropped the
> running time to under 13 seconds.

Indeed, it's not scientific - but with a few more details, you could
improve it quite a lot: what specific Linux distribution (the posting
doesn't even say it's Linux), what specific Python version had you been
using? (less important) what CPUs? If you can: what specific test suite?

A lot of science is about repeatability. Making a systematic study is
(IMO) over-valued - anecdotal reports are useful, too, as long as they
allow for repeatable experiments.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Feb 21 17:05:44 2010
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:05:44 +0100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B81AE38.50501@v.loewis.de>

> It's far from scientific, but I've seen behaviour that's close to a 100%
> performance penalty on a dual-core linux system:
> 
>    http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/a-gil-adventure-threading2
> 
> Short story:  a particular test suite of mine used to run in around 25
> seconds, but a bit of ctypes magic to set thread affinity dropped the
> running time to under 13 seconds.

Indeed, it's not scientific - but with a few more details, you could
improve it quite a lot: what specific Linux distribution (the posting
doesn't even say it's Linux), what specific Python version had you been
using? (less important) what CPUs? If you can: what specific test suite?

A lot of science is about repeatability. Making a systematic study is
(IMO) over-valued - anecdotal reports are useful, too, as long as they
allow for repeatable experiments.

Regards,
Martin


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Sun Feb 21 17:39:27 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:39:27 +1100
Subject: Overcoming python performance penalty for multicore CPU
In-Reply-To: <4B81AE38.50501@v.loewis.de>
References: <4b68ab3d$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4B81A414.7020001@v.loewis.de>
	<mailman.41.1266788758.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4B81AE38.50501@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <1266791967.4574.16.camel@durian>

On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 23:05 +0100, Martin v. Loewis wrote: 
> > It's far from scientific, but I've seen behaviour that's close to a 100%
> > performance penalty on a dual-core linux system:
> > 
> >    http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/a-gil-adventure-threading2
> > 
> > Short story:  a particular test suite of mine used to run in around 25
> > seconds, but a bit of ctypes magic to set thread affinity dropped the
> > running time to under 13 seconds.
> 
> Indeed, it's not scientific - but with a few more details, you could
> improve it quite a lot: what specific Linux distribution (the posting
> doesn't even say it's Linux), what specific Python version had you been
> using? (less important) what CPUs? If you can: what specific test suite?

I'm on Ubuntu Karmic, Python 2.6.4, an AMD Athlon 7750 dual core.

Unfortunately the test suite is for a proprietary application.  I've
been able to reproduce similar behaviour with an open-source test suite,
using the current trunk of the "pyfilesystem" project:

  http://code.google.com/p/pyfilesystem/


In this project "OSFS" is an object-oriented interface to the local
filesystem.  The test case "TestOSFS.test_cases_in_separate_dirs" runs
three theads, each doing a bunch of IO in a different directory.

Running the tests normally:

    rfk at durian:/storage/software/fs$ nosetests fs/tests/test_fs.py:TestOSFS.test_cases_in_separate_dirs
    .
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ran 1 test in 9.787s


That's the best result from five runs - I saw it go as high as 12
seconds.  Watching it in top, I see CPU usage at around 150%.

Now using threading2 to set the process cpu affinity at the start of the
test run:

    rfk at durian:/storage/software/fs$ nosetests fs/tests/test_fs.py:TestOSFS.test_cases_in_separate_dirs
    .
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ran 1 test in 3.792s


Again, best of five.  The variability in times here is much lower - I
never saw it go above 4 seconds.  CPU usage is consistently 100%.



  Cheers,

     Ryan


-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details


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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Feb 21 18:18:19 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:18:19 -0800
Subject: with statement and standard library
In-Reply-To: <4b81bbf7$0$1659$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<4b81bbf7$0$1659$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002211518r5ce8c57auf3485ebb52ce33ee@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:21 PM, John Nagle <nagle at animats.com> wrote:
> nobrowser wrote:
>>
>> Hi. ?The with statement is certainly nifty. ?The trouble is, the
>> *only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
>> classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
>> which I almost never use. ?Yet there are many, many classes in the
>> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
>> statement could be employed. ?Start with the connection objects in
>> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily.
>
> ? "with" is important for locks because it matters when they're
> released. ?It's not as important if release is just resource
> recovery. ?Reference counting will recover most objects when they
> go out of scope anyway.

If you're using CPython that is. The other implementations don't use
refcounting and thus don't guarantee the GC will be that timely.
So if one wants maximum portability, the `with` statement is *quite* useful.

Not to mention there are other uses for `with` besides just freeing
resources; e.g. setting a temporary decimal arithmetic context.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 18:21:27 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 23:21:27 GMT
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b808c9d$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50b45708-76e7-40bc-80e3-0865775be92e@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80ab3a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<debd09ca-06ce-4ef2-a977-e677a46deedf@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b81bff7$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:07:24 -0800, marwie wrote:

>> x = SomeReallyBigListOrString
>> for item in x[1:]:
>> ? ? process(item)
>>
>> has to copy the entire list or string (less the first item). But
>> honestly, I've never found a situation where it actually mattered.
> 
> Good grief, it copies that, too? I assumed that the copying is at least
> delayed until the assignment and that x[1:] is represented by some
> wrapper that just shuffles the indices around (much like the .indices
> method that MRAB suggested).

Such complexity doesn't happen for free. It costs developer time, more 
complexity means more bugs, and more runtime overhead, especially for 
small lists. 99.9% of programs operate on small amounts of data, and 
"small" gets bigger every year.

(I was reading one of my old Uni text books the other day, and one of the 
projects was an application to index all the words in a text file. The 
author decided to use disk storage rather than in-memory data structures 
because he was hoping to read files up to 60,000 words, and considered it 
unlikely that any PCs would have enough memory to store 60,000 words!)

Unless you actually profile the code, you're as likely to be *slowing 
Python down* by such extra sophistication as you are to speed it up. 
Copying blocks of pointers is really fast on modern CPUs.

As a general rule, Python aims for simplicity of implementation rather 
than clever, but fragile, tricks.


> Maybe copying chunks of data really isn't that much of an issue as it
> used to be (and maybe I'm getting old). The application I have in mind
> has to do with symbolic computation, and expressions would be
> represented by python lists. It's too early to do any profiling (in
> fact, it's at the "deciding if python is the right language to implement
> it" stage), but it will have to handle expressions with many terms (i.e.
> long lists), and in the end taking these lists apart and putting them
> back together in different order is the only thing the code will do.


Are you likely to have expressions with a hundred or so MILLION terms?

If so, then you should start thinking about clever tricks to minimise 
copying. Otherwise, you're engaged in premature optimization, which is 
the root of all computer science evil :)



-- 
Steven


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Feb 21 18:21:38 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:21:38 -0800
Subject: with statement and standard library
In-Reply-To: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <509b4149-0140-45c2-bb8b-557dbdafe88f@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b81bbf7$0$1659$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

nobrowser wrote:
> Hi.  The with statement is certainly nifty.  The trouble is, the
> *only* two documented examples how it can be used with the library
> classes are file objects (which I use all the time) and thread locks
> which I almost never use.  Yet there are many, many classes in the
> library whose use would be more elegant and readable if the with
> statement could be employed.  Start with the connection objects in
> httplib and you can probably come up with 10 others easily. 

    "with" is important for locks because it matters when they're
released.  It's not as important if release is just resource
recovery.  Reference counting will recover most objects when they
go out of scope anyway.

    Don't get carried away just because a new feature is available.

				John Nagle


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 18:23:54 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 23:23:54 GMT
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b81c08a$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 13:40:54 -0800, Mensanator wrote:

> Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something important like that wasn't part
> of the
> announcement. I notice no mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was
> a complete
> waste of time on my part, wasn't it?

Of course not. Now you know that Mac OS isn't officially supported, so 
you're less ignorant than you were before you went to the website.

But since Dreampie is written in Python, it shouldn't be that hard to 
have it run on Mac OS, provided you can get the GUI tool kit it requires.



-- 
Steven


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 18:32:47 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:32:47 +1300
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>	<c79d2e08-7454-483e-8ea1-89400b910fde@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<4b80d7b0$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7udthfFhrbU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:31:44 -0800, Carl Banks wrote:
> 
>>The one place where Python does have references is when accessing
>>variables in an enclosing scope (not counting module-level).  
> 
> What makes you say that?

I think Carl is talking about cells, which *are* actually objects
(in CPython at least), but they're internal details of the
interpreter, and you can't do anything useful with them from
Python code.

-- 
Greg


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 21 18:33:45 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 21 Feb 2010 23:33:45 GMT
Subject: Use eval() safely?
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b81c2d9$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:25:11 +0100, W. Martin Borgert wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I know that this issue has been discussed before, but most of the time
> using only one argument to eval().
> 
> Is it possible to use the following code, e.g. run as part of a web
> application, to break in and if so, how?
> 
> import math
> 
> def myeval(untrustedinput):
>     return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
>                 { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
> 
> Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the untrusted
> input string?
> 
> Which Python built-ins and math functions would I have to add to the
> functions dictionary to make it unsafe?

You've got the right idea, but the task is difficult.

Please read this thread:

http://tav.espians.com/a-challenge-to-break-python-security.html



-- 
Steven


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 18:42:53 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:42:53 +1300
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7udu49Fk3uU1@mid.individual.net>

lallous wrote:
> If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
> would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
> want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
> implement the cb.

I would simply not implement the method at all in the base
class. Then the C++ code can do an attribute lookup for
the method, and if it's not found, do nothing.

-- 
Greg


From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 18:47:34 2010
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:47:34 +1100
Subject: Saving the Interactive Window with PythonWin
In-Reply-To: <2485b80a-3d51-4627-95d4-eef6dc7a6445@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <2485b80a-3d51-4627-95d4-eef6dc7a6445@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B81C616.5010701@gmail.com>

On 22/02/2010 4:28 AM, vsoler wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> When I run a python script, I know that I can print the results of my
> calculations on the Interactive Window. Once the scripts ends, I can
> copy/pate these results on an OpenOffice Writer document.
>
> However, I would like to know if I can somehow add some lines to my
> script, so that it saves the Interactive Window to a text file. How
> could it be done?

The code for the interactive window is in pywin32\framework\interact.py 
- eg:

 >>> from pywin.framework import interact
 >>> interact.IsInteractiveWindowVisible()
True
 >>>

If it is visible, then something like:

 >>> len(interact.edit.currentView.GetWindowText())
189
 >>>

should get you on the right path.

>
> And, is there a way to programatically clear out the Interactive
> Window so that it only shows the last run?

Something like:

interact.edit.currentView.GetWindowText('line1\nline2\nline3')

should work - the first few lines will always be formatted using blue 
text, and the above works a little strangely when attempting it directly 
from the interactive prompt, but might still be useful.  See the source 
file I mentioned above for more clues.

HTH,

Mark
>
> Thank you for your help



From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 19:17:10 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:17:10 +1300
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
Message-ID: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>

My student is trying to build an executable version of a program that uses PyQt 
and PyQwt, on Windows XP.  She has installed: Python 2.6.1, Qt 4.5.0, PyQt 4.5, 
and PyQwt 5.2.0.  There is a module error on running the executable produced by 
py2exe.  Here is the info I got from my student:

<quote>

     Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "ABM15.pyw", line 15, in <module>
       File "PyQt4\Qwt5\__init__.pyc", line 32, in <module>
       File "PyQt4\Qwt5\Qwt.pyc", line 12, in <module>
       File "PyQt4\Qwt5\Qwt.pyc", line 10, in __load
     ImportError: No module named QtSvg


If you Google this last line, you'll find that I've posted this to a forum, but 
no one answered me. Someone has also had this problem before, although I think 
they were using PyInstaller and not py2exe. They say that its because Qwt has a 
hidden import for QtSvg. If I can turn this off, maybe it'll work, but I don't 
know how.

I have downloaded py2exe and I run the attached setup.py file in my working 
directory. It creates two directories: 'dist' and 'build'. An executable is 
created in the 'dist' directory along with other things. When I tried running 
it, it produces a log file, in which I find the error messages.

<\quote>

Perhaps someone can recognize these symptoms.

Thanks,
Gib


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 19:32:21 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:32:21 +0100
Subject: Is there a way to continue after an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <1266720681.3908.24.camel@durian>
References: <4B8075C1.4090304@gmail.com>	<mailman.3.1266710381.4577.python-list@python.org>	<4b807c90$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<4b8097e6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> <1266720681.3908.24.camel@durian>
Message-ID: <4B81D095.3000303@gmail.com>

On 21-02-2010 03:51, Ryan Kelly wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 13:17 +1100, Lie Ryan wrote:
>    
>> On 02/21/10 12:02, Stef Mientki wrote:
>>      
>>> On 21-02-2010 01:21, Lie Ryan wrote:
>>>        
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM, Stef Mientki
>>>>>            
>> <stef.mientki at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>      
>>>>>            
>>>>>> hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like my program to continue on the next line after an uncaught
>>>>>> exception,
>>>>>> is that possible ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>> Stef Mientki
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>              
>>>> That reminds me of VB's "On Error Resume Next"
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> I think that's what I'm after ...
>>>        
>> A much better approach is to use callbacks, the callbacks determines
>> whether to raise an exception or continue execution:
>>
>> def handler(e):
>>      if datetime.datetime.now()>= datetime.datetime(2012, 12, 21):
>>          raise Exception('The world has ended')
>>      # else: ignore, it's fine
>>
>> def add_ten_error_if_zero(args, handler):
>>      if args == 0:
>>          handler(args)
>>      return args + 10
>>
>> print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, handler)
>> print add_ten_error_if_zero(10, handler)
>> print add_ten_error_if_zero(0, lambda e: None) # always succeeds
>>      
>
> Or if you don't like having to explicitly manage callbacks, you can try
> the "withrestart" module:
>
>      http://pypi.python.org/pypi/withrestart/
>
> It tries to pinch some of the good ideas from Common Lisp's
> error-handling system.
>
>    from withrestart import *
>
>    def add_ten_error_if_zero(n):
>        #  This gives calling code the option to ignore
>        #  the error, or raise a different one.
>        with restarts(skip,raise_error):
>            if n == 0:
>                raise ValueError
>        return n + 10
>
>    # This will raise ValueError
>    print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
>
>    # This will print 10
>    with Handler(ValueError,"skip"):
>        print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
>
>    # This will exit the python interpreter
>    with Handler(ValueError,"raise_error",SystemExit):
>        print add_ten_error_if_zero(0)
>
>
>
>    Cheers,
>
>        Ryan
>
>
>    
thanks Ryan (and others),

your description of withstart  was very informative,
and I think I understand why it's impossible what I want
(something like madExcept for Delphi / C / C++, see
*http://www.madshi.net/madExceptDescription.htm )
*
It are not the bugs that you can predict / expect to catch,
but the uncaught bugs.

So made some first steps,
and this seems to be sufficient for now,
if you're interested, look here,
   http://mientki.ruhosting.nl/data_www/pylab_works/pw_bug_reporter.html

cheers,
Stef



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From david at boddie.org.uk  Sun Feb 21 20:02:22 2010
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:02:22 +0100
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>

On Monday 22 February 2010 01:17, Gib Bogle wrote:

> <quote>
> 
>      Traceback (most recent call last):
>        File "ABM15.pyw", line 15, in <module>
>        File "PyQt4\Qwt5\__init__.pyc", line 32, in <module>
>        File "PyQt4\Qwt5\Qwt.pyc", line 12, in <module>
>        File "PyQt4\Qwt5\Qwt.pyc", line 10, in __load
>      ImportError: No module named QtSvg
> 
> If you Google this last line, you'll find that I've posted this to a
> forum, but no one answered me. Someone has also had this problem before,
> although I think they were using PyInstaller and not py2exe. They say that
> its because Qwt has a hidden import for QtSvg. If I can turn this off,
> maybe it'll work, but I don't know how.
> 
> I have downloaded py2exe and I run the attached setup.py file in my
> working directory. It creates two directories: 'dist' and 'build'. An
> executable is created in the 'dist' directory along with other things.
> When I tried running it, it produces a log file, in which I find the error
> messages.
> 
> <\quote>
> 
> Perhaps someone can recognize these symptoms.

Someone asked this question on the PyQt mailing list, too:

  http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2010-February/025827.html

I believe it was also asked on the #pyqt IRC channel on freenode. I think
I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
the PyQt Wiki:

  http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt

If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
this problem.

David


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 20:06:54 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:06:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Apologies -- Test message
References: <mailman.39.1266781585.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <da197b32-610a-43af-836e-4b2ea4c42edf@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 12:49?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Feb 28, 12:49 pm).

        I've not seen a message via Gmane in something like 36
hours... and
find it hard to believe this group would be that quiet...


Could it be that Gmane is giving you a taste of your own (David
Copperfield) medicine?


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 20:39:19 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:39:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>



Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
time on my part, wasn't it?"""

Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy? I visited your site a few
years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
don't hear me whining about it do you? Besides mac is always the last
to get releases (if any) everybody knows that. If you drive a porsche
you can't get all upset every time you find yourself on road with pot-
holes, your just not *that* important because you drive a porsche!
Please (in the future) leave the ranting to me, i'm better at it ;).

Thanks for the release Noam, i look forward to "test driving" it.
hehe  ;)



From philip at semanchuk.com  Sun Feb 21 21:08:08 2010
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:08:08 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <42A48E92-3B0A-4E59-AFE9-A47E663E9DBA@semanchuk.com>


On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM, rantingrick wrote:

>
>
> Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
> important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
> mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
> time on my part, wasn't it?"""
>
> Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy? I visited your site a few
> years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
> don't hear me whining about it do you? Besides mac is always the last
> to get releases (if any) everybody knows that.


Erm...not if the developer uses a Mac.  =)




From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 21:10:48 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:40:48 +0530
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <42A48E92-3B0A-4E59-AFE9-A47E663E9DBA@semanchuk.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<42A48E92-3B0A-4E59-AFE9-A47E663E9DBA@semanchuk.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002211810w40323ca4we79d71a68ce9a863@mail.gmail.com>

Just got it working in mac. Installing dependencies took a bit though.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Philip Semanchuk <philip at semanchuk.com>wrote:

>
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM, rantingrick wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
>> important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
>> mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
>> time on my part, wasn't it?"""
>>
>> Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy? I visited your site a few
>> years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
>> don't hear me whining about it do you? Besides mac is always the last
>> to get releases (if any) everybody knows that.
>>
>
>
> Erm...not if the developer uses a Mac.  =)
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 21:32:18 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:32:18 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002211810w40323ca4we79d71a68ce9a863@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<42A48E92-3B0A-4E59-AFE9-A47E663E9DBA@semanchuk.com>
	<d4ab53de1002211810w40323ca4we79d71a68ce9a863@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69B64EDC-57EB-41CF-BAF4-B2D63E82D80B@gmail.com>


On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:10 PM, Shashwat Anand wrote:

> Just got it working in mac. Installing dependencies took a bit though.

I used macports and it was only 2 installs:

# sudo port install py26-pygtksourceview 
# sudo port install py26-gtk2

It sure did install a lot of other stuff, like a new gcc(?) though; took almost an hour.

S



> 
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Philip Semanchuk <philip at semanchuk.com> wrote:
> 
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 8:39 PM, rantingrick wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
> important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
> mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
> time on my part, wasn't it?"""
> 
> Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy? I visited your site a few
> years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
> don't hear me whining about it do you? Besides mac is always the last
> to get releases (if any) everybody knows that.
> 
> 
> Erm...not if the developer uses a Mac.  =)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sun Feb 21 21:42:40 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:42:40 +1300
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
Message-ID: <hlsqv1$g8t$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Thanks David.

> Someone asked this question on the PyQt mailing list, too:
> 
>   http://www.riverbankcomputing.com/pipermail/pyqt/2010-February/025827.html

That's my student, Helvin.

> 
> I believe it was also asked on the #pyqt IRC channel on freenode. I think
> I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
> the PyQt Wiki:
> 
>   http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt
> 
> If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
> presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
> this problem.

I just did a quick test myself, and confirmed that this works for sip.  I'm not 
at all clear what "--includes" arguments might be needed for QtSvg (and 
libQtSvg).  I'll pass this info on to Helvin.

Gib


From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Feb 21 22:44:29 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:44:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a1fb718a-a2d2-40dc-9daf-86bb08ba762d@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 7:39?pm, rantingrick <rantingr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mensanator snipped: """Yeah, I saw that. Funny that something
> important like that wasn't part of the announcement. I notice no
> mention of Mac OS, so visiting the website was a complete waste of
> time on my part, wasn't it?"""
>
> Oh Mensanator, why you always so grumpy?

Part of the job requirements of a gadfly.

> I visited your site a few
> years ago and i found it to be a complete waste of my time but you
> don't hear me whining about it do you?

Did I ever claim it wasn't?

> Besides mac is always the last
> to get releases (if any) everybody knows that.

I'm not complaining about the lack of Mac support, just that
it wasn't mentioned in the announcement.

> If you drive a porsche
> you can't get all upset every time you find yourself on road with pot-
> holes, your just not *that* important because you drive a porsche!

"You're" not getting the point.

> Please (in the future) leave the ranting to me, i'm better at it ;).
>
> Thanks for the release Noam, i look forward to "test driving" it.
> hehe ?;)



From m.77ahesh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 23:39:39 2010
From: m.77ahesh at gmail.com (miss world)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 20:39:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
Message-ID: <671e4c8d-fe7a-42da-ab33-3729d0dcdff1@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
CHECK OUR VAST PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS INCLUDING
PROJECTS FOR FREE AT
http://presentationsandseminars.blogspot.com


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 00:15:43 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:15:43 -0800
Subject: Efficient way to break up a list into two pieces
In-Reply-To: <4b80d744$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <ca5b1624-f31a-46ff-9d88-c3d12088717b@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.8.1266714398.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b808f37$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.27.1266729715.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b80d744$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002212115v2c03d014x110291453f53e049@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Steven D'Aprano
<steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:21:47 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> For ten items, though, is it really faster to muck around with array
>> lengths than just copying the data over? Array copies are extremely fast
>> on modern processors.
>
> My mistake, he actually wants l1[10:] copied. So you might be copying a
> huge amount of data, not just ten items.
>
> Or if you prefer, replace 10 by 100000000.
>

If you need to scale that direction, it's time to install a database.

>> Programmer time and processor time being what it is, I still think my
>> answer is the correct one. No, it's not what he says he wants, but it is
>> what he needs.
>
> You missed the point that your suggestion gives radically different
> behaviour to what the OP indicated he is using. He mutates the list in
> place, you rebind the list's name. That has *very* different semantics.
>
>
> The OP may not care about the difference, but if he does require the
> first behaviour, then your solution doesn't help.
>

Correct.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Feb 22 00:45:40 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:45:40 +1300
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>

W. Martin Borgert wrote:

> def myeval(untrustedinput):
>     return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
>                 { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
> 
> Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the
> untrusted input string?

This is NOT safe as it stands. It still isn't safe even if
you put nothing in the globals dict at all.

A couple of ways someone can do nasty things to you:

# Wipe out any file writable by the calling process
eval("[c for c in (0).__class__.__bases__[0].__subclasses__() if c.__name__ == 
'file'][0]('/my/precious/file', 'w')")

# Use up large amounts of memory and CPU time
eval("100000**100000")

-- 
Greg


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb 22 01:07:05 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 06:07:05 GMT
Subject: Use eval() safely?
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:45:40 +1300, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> 
>> def myeval(untrustedinput):
>>     return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
>>                 { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
>> 
>> Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the untrusted
>> input string?
> 
> This is NOT safe as it stands. It still isn't safe even if you put
> nothing in the globals dict at all.

It's *especially* not safe if you put nothing in the globals dict, 
because Python kindly rectifies that by putting the builtins into it:

>>> eval("__builtins__.keys()", {}, {})
['IndexError', 'all', 'help', 'vars', ... 'OverflowError']


>>> eval("globals()", {}, {})
{'__builtins__': {...}}
>>>
>>> eval("globals()", {'__builtins__': None}, {})
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'globals' is not defined

So {'__builtins__': None} is safer than {}. Still not safe, exactly, but 
safer. Or at least you make the Black Hats work harder before they own 
your server :)




-- 
Steven


From norman at smash-net.org  Mon Feb 22 01:49:51 2010
From: norman at smash-net.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Norman_Rie=DF?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>
Message-ID: <4B82290F.9000508@smash-net.org>

Am 02/21/10 22:09, schrieb Dennis Lee Bieber:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:12:50 +0100, Norman Rie?<norman at smash-net.org>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>
>    
>> Hello,
>>
>> i am trying to read a large bz2 compressed textfile using the bz2 module.
>> The file is 1717362770 lines long and 8GB large.
>> Using this code
>>
>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>>      for line in source_file:
>>      print line.strip()
>>
>>      print "Exiting"
>>      print "I used file: " + file
>>
>> the loop exits cleanly after 4311 lines in midline and the prints are
>> executed.
>> This happened on two different boxes runnig different brands of linux.
>> Is there something i miss or should be done differently?
>>
>>      
> 	Please verify your indentation! What you posted above is invalid in
> many ways.
>    
I am sorry, the indentation suffered from pasting.

This is the actual code:

source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
for line in source_file:
     print line.strip()

print "Exiting"
print "I used file: " + file





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Feb 22 03:02:01 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 08:02:01 GMT
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>
	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:

> This is the actual code:
> 
> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
> for line in source_file:
>      print line.strip()
> 
> print "Exiting"
> print "I used file: " + file


Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another 
application?



-- 
Steven


From norman at smash-net.org  Mon Feb 22 03:43:17 2010
From: norman at smash-net.org (=?UTF-8?B?Tm9ybWFuIFJpZcOf?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:43:17 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B8243A5.20201@smash-net.org>

Am 02/22/10 09:02, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:
>
>    
>> This is the actual code:
>>
>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>> for line in source_file:
>>       print line.strip()
>>
>> print "Exiting"
>> print "I used file: " + file
>>      
>
> Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another
> application?
>
>
>
>    

Yes, bzcat is running through the file fine. And piping bzcat output 
into the python script reading stdin works fine, too.


From jasminsweety145 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 05:01:18 2010
From: jasminsweety145 at gmail.com (jasmin sweety)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: %%% Anuksha navel & smootched by the Hero V----? %%%
Message-ID: <c2a93b82-cd73-4c1b-bff0-7a5f41c96eb2@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

%%% Anuksha navel & smootched by the Hero V----? %%%

http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 05:48:55 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:48:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 1:54?am, Tim Roberts <t... at probo.com> wrote:
> DANNY <danijel.gv... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
> >network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
> >use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
> >couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.
>
> If you want to manipulate the frames (as bitmaps), then you have little
> choice but to decode the MPEG as you receive it, manipulate the bitmaps,
> and re-encode it back to MPEG.
>
> That's going to take a fair amount of time...
> --
> Tim Roberts, t... at probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

Yes, well beside bieng time-consuming, that is also inappropriate for
me,
because I want to have clip that would be streamed across the network
and
have the same GoP on the client side as the original-because I want to
see
what is the effect of errors on different GoP sizes. I would
manipuleta the
received clip just in the way that (if there are too many errors) I
would
stop displaying untill the next I frame.....I cant find a way to do
that....is there a way?


From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 05:54:01 2010
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:54:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What happened to pyjamas?
References: <6a8e506c-63df-482b-a39d-148e6217ba2c@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f1a7338c-0460-452b-8443-2e772943313f@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 2:43 pm, John Pinner <funth... at gmail.com> wrote:
> It appears that, in trying to cut down spm, somone chahnged a DNS
> entry and screwed it up : it shouldbe back before long.

 yep.  i've now got access to the web interface for the dns whois
records.  they got poo'd up (only one entry) and then the person who
made the changes was ill for a couple of days.

 i needed to change the DNS server to one that i control (rather than
a "dumb" get-free-hosting-for-?1.99-a-month provider so that i could
add http://wiki.pyjs.org (using a pyjamas-based wiki of course), move
away from sourceforge VHOSTS, and generally set things up a little bit
better.

 l.


From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 05:58:17 2010
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:58:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: look at the google code
References: <cdd9c65f-de38-43b8-89e1-f2a50b1f3a4c@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <711cb713-4b4a-47f6-8922-ce1ada7d64e6@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 19, 10:41 am, Allison Vollmann <allisonv... at yahoo.com.br>
wrote:
> http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/
>
> Last update from yesterday, is the same project?

 only the tarballs are maintained on there, and the wiki and the issue
tracker.  we couldn't get control of that site for quite some time so
started using sourceforget for svn, but the issue tracker on
sourceforget is truly dreadful.

 basically there's bits of pyjamas splattered all over the place in a
pick-n-mix setup :)  mostly this is for the convenience of the key
developers - welcome to free software, where the developers do what
they like because it makes _their_ lives easier...

 l.


From karthigacool at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 08:16:42 2010
From: karthigacool at gmail.com (karthiga madhan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:16:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: insurance, life insurance, home insurance and their benefits 
	www.autoinsurance-2010.blogspot.com
Message-ID: <28263151-ebd7-4aa3-a79a-e741ee3bdfa5@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

insurance, life insurance, home insurance and their benefits
www.autoinsurance-2010.blogspot.com


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 08:29:55 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:29:55 +1100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <mailman.56.1266828199.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.56.1266828199.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/22/10 19:43, Norman Rie? wrote:
> Am 02/22/10 09:02, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> This is the actual code:
>>>
>>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>>> for line in source_file:
>>>       print line.strip()
>>>
>>> print "Exiting"
>>> print "I used file: " + file
>>>      
>>
>> Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another
>> application?
>>
>>
>>
>>    
> 
> Yes, bzcat is running through the file fine. And piping bzcat output
> into the python script reading stdin works fine, too.

test with using something other than bzcat; bzcat does certain things
differently because of the way it works (a cat for bzipped file). Try
using plain "bunzip2 filename.bz2"


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 22 08:44:02 2010
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 13:44:02 GMT
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ky8wte.705@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * Steve Holden:
>>> Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Since in the quoting above no reference to definition of "pointer"
>>>> remains: "pointer" refers to a copyable reference value as seen from the
>>>> Python level, in the same way as "pointer" is used by e.g. the Java
>>>> language spec.
>>>>
>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> If so, then that's correct: a Python (or Java, or whatever language)
>>>> pointer is not necessarily directly a memory address, and furthermore id
>>>> is not guaranteed to reproduce the bits of a pointer value  --  which
>>>> might not even make sense.
>>>>
>>>> All that id does is to produce a value that uniquely identifies the
>>>> object pointed to, i.e. it corresponds to the pointer value, and
>>>> although in CPython that's simply the bits of a C pointer typed as
>>>> integer, in IronPython it's not.
>>>>
>>> You go too far here. What you are referring to in your bizarrely
>>> constructed definition above
>>
>> No, it's not bizarre, it's the standard general language independent
>> definition.
>>
>*The* standard general language independent definition? As defined
>where? The id() value doesn't "correspond to the pointer value", it
>corresponds to the object. Why you see the need for this indirection
>remains a mystery.

No it doesn't. If an object is garbage collected, the id() might be
recycled. At that time the id() corresponds to quite a different
object. OTOH if you kill an object in Python it is gone forever.
Of course there is a standard computer science idea of what a pointer is.
If you admit the pointer terminology, you can understand
that a pointer value is all what id() can tell us.

You seem to subsconsciously substitute "assembler language address"
for it. When someone says: "pointers are bad" what really meant is
"manipulating assembler language addresses in a high level language
is bad". (Everybody agrees, but sometimes you must use e.g. c
as sort of assembler.)
That is not the kind of pointers we're talking about here.

(I once studied algol 68, and never got confused about these
subjects anymore, recommended.)

>
>regards
> Steve
>--
>

Groetjes Albert


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From hidura at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 09:03:32 2010
From: hidura at gmail.com (hidura at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:03:32 +0000
Subject: Problem with __init__.py in Python3.1
In-Reply-To: <4bbf7fb21002041810xc9bf899v1827ff83abb67c44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001485e7c7b6fad3a9048030e5e1@google.com>

For finnished the subject i resolve the problem using the PEP-328, i was  
using the old kind of imports :s

On Feb 4, 2010 10:10pm, Hidura <hidura at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks i middle resolve the problem, and i going to read the PEP-366 i've  
> been read the 328, i will kept informed of the progresses.

> Thanks again for the help


> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Ben Finney ben+python at benfinney.id.au>  
> wrote:

> "Gabriel Genellina" gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> writes:



> > If you directly run a script from inside a package, Python does not

> > know that it belongs to a package, and treats it as a simple, lonely

> > script. In that case, relative imports won't work.




> Which I consider to be a bug. Fortunately, it's already addressed in PEP

> 366 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0366/>. Unfortunately, it

> involves more hackish boilerplate at the top of the program, and is only

> available in Python 2.6+.



> --

> \ ?Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does |

> `\ knowledge.? ?Charles Darwin, _The Descent of Man_, 1871 |

> _o__) |

> Ben Finney


> --

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list






> --
> Hidura

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From icanbob at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 09:40:15 2010
From: icanbob at gmail.com (bobicanprogram)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:40:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: Python-SIMPL v2.0.0 released
Message-ID: <964d1dcb-46a9-40a5-ab41-199fd1e364a7@t21g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

The SIMPL project (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl) aims to bring the
Send/Receive/Reply messaging (first popularized by QNX) to the open
source Linux world.   Since its inception more that 10 years ago,  the
SIMPL toolkit has grown steadily in functionality.   Through the use
of surrogates,  SIMPL modules can be dispersed seamlessly across
networks including heterogeneous networks with only one Linux node.
SIMPL modules can also be written in several programming languages
including Python, C, C++, JAVA and Tcl/Tk.   Modules written in
different languages can be mixed in a SIMPL appliction.

Python-SIMPL has been used to connect Python UIs to C data acquisition/
computation backends.   While this is an example of a common use for
the toolkit,  it is by no means the only place it could be useful.
Python to Python,  Python to JAVA as well as Python to C are all
seamlessly possible in both local or distributed applications.  Python-
SIMPL allows a software application to be broken up into modules where
the language choices for each module can be optimized.

The Python-SIMPL interface library has undergone a fundamental
revision with the v2.0.0 release. The underlying shared library which
wraps the SIMPL toolkit as a Python extension was cleaned up
considerably.   In addition two new Python wrappers were created to
expose this SIMPL toolkit in more object oriented fashion to the
Python developer.

The simplest starting point for exploring the Python-SIMPL toolkit is
an online "hello world" level tutorial at:

http://www.icanprogram.com/06py/lesson1/lesson1.html

The Python-SIMPL toolkit can be downloaded in source form at:

http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/python.self.htm

or in precompiled binary (i386) form at:

http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/pythonbin.self.html

We at the SIMPL project welcome participants at all levels of
expertise.   If you are interested do not hesitate to contact us.

bob


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb 22 10:22:02 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:22:02 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
Message-ID: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It inspects the 
contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it gave the results 
for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A, and fired up the 
program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the file. I looked at 
properties for the B program, and it was clearly pointing to folder A.

Anyone have this happen to them?

Another anomaly. I have the files track.py and trackstudy.py in the same 
folder along with 100 or so other py and txt data files. When I did a 
search from the folder window in the upper right corner, search only 
found one of the two. I called HP tech support about it, and they could 
see it for themselves via remote control. They had no idea, but agreed 
to  contact MS. In this case, I noted that this search box has some sort 
of filter associated with it. Possibly, in my early stages of learning 
to navigate in Win7, I accidentally set the filter.

Comments?


From norman at smash-net.org  Mon Feb 22 10:38:24 2010
From: norman at smash-net.org (=?UTF-8?B?Tm9ybWFuIFJpZcOf?=)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:38:24 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.56.1266828199.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <4B82A4F0.3010403@smash-net.org>

Am 02/22/10 14:29, schrieb Lie Ryan:
> On 02/22/10 19:43, Norman Rie? wrote:
>    
>> Am 02/22/10 09:02, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>>      
>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>>>> This is the actual code:
>>>>
>>>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>>>> for line in source_file:
>>>>        print line.strip()
>>>>
>>>> print "Exiting"
>>>> print "I used file: " + file
>>>>
>>>>          
>>> Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another
>>> application?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>        
>> Yes, bzcat is running through the file fine. And piping bzcat output
>> into the python script reading stdin works fine, too.
>>      
> test with using something other than bzcat; bzcat does certain things
> differently because of the way it works (a cat for bzipped file). Try
> using plain "bunzip2 filename.bz2"
>    

Did that too. Works as expected.


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 10:43:07 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:43:07 +0100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002220743j4d00a7cdt828122a67f016025@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:22 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It inspects the
> contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it gave the results for
> A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A, and fired up the program in
> B. Win7 went into search mode for the file. I looked at properties for the B
> program, and it was clearly pointing to folder A.
>
> Anyone have this happen to them?
>
> Another anomaly. I have the files track.py and trackstudy.py in the same
> folder along with 100 or so other py and txt data files. When I did a search
> from the folder window in the upper right corner, search only found one of
> the two. I called HP tech support about it, and they could see it for
> themselves via remote control. They had no idea, but agreed to ?contact MS.
> In this case, I noted that this search box has some sort of filter
> associated with it. Possibly, in my early stages of learning to navigate in
> Win7, I accidentally set the filter.
>
> Comments?

I can't really see the python related problem here...


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 11:01:34 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:01:34 +0000
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B82AA5E.10407@mrabarnett.plus.com>

W. eWatson wrote:
> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It inspects the 
> contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it gave the results 
> for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A, and fired up the 
> program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the file. I looked at 
> properties for the B program, and it was clearly pointing to folder A.
> 
Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.

> Anyone have this happen to them?
> 
> Another anomaly. I have the files track.py and trackstudy.py in the same 
> folder along with 100 or so other py and txt data files. When I did a 
> search from the folder window in the upper right corner, search only 
> found one of the two. I called HP tech support about it, and they could 
> see it for themselves via remote control. They had no idea, but agreed 
> to  contact MS. In this case, I noted that this search box has some sort 
> of filter associated with it. Possibly, in my early stages of learning 
> to navigate in Win7, I accidentally set the filter.
> 
> Comments?

Not Python-related.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb 22 11:29:47 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-22, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B.

[tail of various windows breakages elided]

> Comments?

Switch to Linux?

Or at least install Cygwin?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Maybe I should have
                                  at               asked for my Neutron Bomb
                               visi.com            in PAISLEY --


From mail at hellmutweber.de  Mon Feb 22 11:32:11 2010
From: mail at hellmutweber.de (Hellmut Weber)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:32:11 +0100
Subject: A tool for find dependencies relationships behind Python projects
In-Reply-To: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B82B18B.3020707@hellmutweber.de>

Hi Victor,
I would be intereseted to use your tool ;-)

My system is Sabayon-5.1 on Lenovo T61.
Trying for the first time easy_install I get the following error:

====================

root at sylvester ~ # easy_install gluttony
Searching for gluttony
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/gluttony/
Reading http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
Best match: Gluttony 0.3 
 

Downloading 
http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/G/Gluttony/Gluttony-0.3.zip#md5=c7774d4fcc0402097f90dc81186de465 

Processing Gluttony-0.3.zip
Running Gluttony-0.3/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir 
/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/egg-dist-tmp-CJI_LD
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/bin/easy_install", line 9, in <module>
     load_entry_point('distribute==0.6.8', 'console_scripts', 
'easy_install')()
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 1708, in main
     with_ei_usage(lambda:
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 1696, in with_ei_usage
     return f()
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 1712, in <lambda>
     distclass=DistributionWithoutHelpCommands, **kw
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/core.py", line 152, in setup
     dist.run_commands()
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 975, in run_commands
     self.run_command(cmd)
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 995, in run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 236, in run
     self.easy_install(spec, not self.no_deps)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 471, in easy_install
     return self.install_item(spec, dist.location, tmpdir, deps)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 501, in install_item
     dists = self.install_eggs(spec, download, tmpdir)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 680, in install_eggs
     return self.build_and_install(setup_script, setup_base)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 957, in build_and_install
     self.run_setup(setup_script, setup_base, args)
   File 
"/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py", 
line 946, in run_setup
     run_setup(setup_script, args)
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 
29, in run_setup
     lambda: execfile(
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 
70, in run
     return func()
   File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 
31, in <lambda>
     {'__file__':setup_script, '__name__':'__main__'}
   File "setup.py", line 9, in <module>
   File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/__init__.py", 
line 1, in <module>
     #
   File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/gluttony.py", 
line 13, in <module>
ImportError: No module named pip.log
root at sylvester ~ #

====================

I emerged app-misc/pip, but that didn't help, the error remains the same

What is missing?

Any help appreciated

Best regards

Hellmut


Am 19.02.2010 17:16, schrieb Victor Lin:
> Hi,
>
> I just wrote a tool for drawing dependencies relationships diagram of
> Python project on Pypi.  Here is the home page of the tool:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
>
> Some examples:
> Sprox:
> http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/sprox_dot.png
>
> TurboGears2:
> http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/tg2_dot.png
>
> Hope this could be helpful :P
>
> Regards.
> Victor Lin.

-- 
Dr. Hellmut Weber         mail at hellmutweber.de
Degenfeldstra?e 2         tel   +49-89-3081172
D-80803 M?nchen-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq



From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:32:36 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:32:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
Message-ID: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
an ordered dict from an unordered list?

unorderedDict = {}
for thing in unorderedList:
	if thing.id in unorderedDict:
		UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
	else:
		CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])

orderedDict = OrderedDict()
for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
	orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:49:42 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:19:42 +0530
Subject: A tool for find dependencies relationships behind Python projects
In-Reply-To: <4B82B18B.3020707@hellmutweber.de>
References: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4B82B18B.3020707@hellmutweber.de>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002220849i5a39443ex82d1d207372b3d3b@mail.gmail.com>

Same issue here, easy_install fails
here is traceback,

Shashwat-Anands-MacBook-Pro:Downloads l0nwlf$ easy_install gluttony
Searching for gluttony
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/gluttony/
Reading http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
Best match: Gluttony 0.3
Downloading
http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/G/Gluttony/Gluttony-0.3.zip#md5=c7774d4fcc0402097f90dc81186de465
Processing Gluttony-0.3.zip
Running Gluttony-0.3/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir
/var/folders/Hm/Hmz8Y9rDEXqrbr8IUNiNiU+++TI/-Tmp-/easy_install-zlrBGJ/Gluttony-0.3/egg-dist-tmp-N3AofQ
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/easy_install-2.6", line 10, in <module>
    load_entry_point('setuptools==0.6c9', 'console_scripts',
'easy_install')()
  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 1671, in main

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 1659, in with_ei_usage

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 1675, in <lambda>

  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/distutils/core.py",
line 152, in setup
    dist.run_commands()
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/distutils/dist.py",
line 975, in run_commands
    self.run_command(cmd)
  File
"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/python2.6/distutils/dist.py",
line 995, in run_command
    cmd_obj.run()
  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 211, in run

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 446, in easy_install

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 476, in install_item

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 655, in install_eggs

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 930, in build_and_install

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
line 919, in run_setup

  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/sandbox.py",
line 27, in run_setup
  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/sandbox.py",
line 63, in run
  File
"/Library/Python/2.6/site-packages/setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg/setuptools/sandbox.py",
line 29, in <lambda>
  File "setup.py", line 9, in <module>
  File
"/var/folders/Hm/Hmz8Y9rDEXqrbr8IUNiNiU+++TI/-Tmp-/easy_install-zlrBGJ/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/__init__.py",
line 1, in <module>
  File
"/var/folders/Hm/Hmz8Y9rDEXqrbr8IUNiNiU+++TI/-Tmp-/easy_install-zlrBGJ/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/gluttony.py",
line 13, in <module>
ImportError: No module named pip.log


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Hellmut Weber <mail at hellmutweber.de>wrote:

> Hi Victor,
> I would be intereseted to use your tool ;-)
>
> My system is Sabayon-5.1 on Lenovo T61.
> Trying for the first time easy_install I get the following error:
>
> ====================
>
> root at sylvester ~ # easy_install gluttony
> Searching for gluttony
> Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/gluttony/
> Reading http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
> Best match: Gluttony 0.3
>
> Downloading
> http://pypi.python.org/packages/source/G/Gluttony/Gluttony-0.3.zip#md5=c7774d4fcc0402097f90dc81186de465
> Processing Gluttony-0.3.zip
> Running Gluttony-0.3/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir
> /tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/egg-dist-tmp-CJI_LD
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/bin/easy_install", line 9, in <module>
>    load_entry_point('distribute==0.6.8', 'console_scripts',
> 'easy_install')()
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1708, in main
>    with_ei_usage(lambda:
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1696, in with_ei_usage
>    return f()
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1712, in <lambda>
>    distclass=DistributionWithoutHelpCommands, **kw
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/core.py", line 152, in setup
>    dist.run_commands()
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 975, in run_commands
>    self.run_command(cmd)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 995, in run_command
>    cmd_obj.run()
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 236, in run
>    self.easy_install(spec, not self.no_deps)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 471, in easy_install
>    return self.install_item(spec, dist.location, tmpdir, deps)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 501, in install_item
>    dists = self.install_eggs(spec, download, tmpdir)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 680, in install_eggs
>    return self.build_and_install(setup_script, setup_base)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 957, in build_and_install
>    self.run_setup(setup_script, setup_base, args)
>  File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 946, in run_setup
>    run_setup(setup_script, args)
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 29,
> in run_setup
>    lambda: execfile(
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 70,
> in run
>    return func()
>  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line 31,
> in <lambda>
>    {'__file__':setup_script, '__name__':'__main__'}
>  File "setup.py", line 9, in <module>
>  File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/__init__.py", line 1,
> in <module>
>    #
>  File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/gluttony.py", line
> 13, in <module>
> ImportError: No module named pip.log
> root at sylvester ~ #
>
> ====================
>
> I emerged app-misc/pip, but that didn't help, the error remains the same
>
> What is missing?
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> Best regards
>
> Hellmut
>
>
> Am 19.02.2010 17:16, schrieb Victor Lin:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> I just wrote a tool for drawing dependencies relationships diagram of
>> Python project on Pypi.  Here is the home page of the tool:
>>
>> http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
>>
>> Some examples:
>> Sprox:
>> http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/sprox_dot.png
>>
>> TurboGears2:
>> http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/tg2_dot.png
>>
>> Hope this could be helpful :P
>>
>> Regards.
>> Victor Lin.
>>
>
> --
> Dr. Hellmut Weber         mail at hellmutweber.de
> Degenfeldstra?e 2         tel   +49-89-3081172
> D-80803 M?nchen-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
> please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:51:52 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:21:52 +0530
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002220851r25bc3e39v6b28a359ad88a02e@mail.gmail.com>

Programming is most fruiful in *nix environment.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid>wrote:

> On 2010-02-22, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>
> > Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B.
>
> [tail of various windows breakages elided]
>
> > Comments?
>
> Switch to Linux?
>
> Or at least install Cygwin?
>
> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Maybe I should have
>                                  at               asked for my Neutron Bomb
>                               visi.com            in PAISLEY --
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From kiraank at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:53:06 2010
From: kiraank at gmail.com (KIRAN)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Files required for porting python
Message-ID: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi ALL,

I am newbie to python and wanted to port python on to some RTOS. The
RTOS I am trying to port python is not posix compliant. First, I
decided to port python on to windows and later I will port the same to
my target system. [ This is just to minimize the effort being put
port, debug and to stabilize]. I downloaded 2.6.1 python code and
started looking through the code. I see lot of code with several
files. I am not sure which code I should start with. Any help / link
regarding this is appreciated.

Thanks,
Kiran


From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 11:55:55 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:25:55 +0530
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002220855w218e7702h7a62753b2a53c6b8@mail.gmail.com>

OrderedDict is a class in collection module in python 2.7a3+. Perhaps you
can use it from there.

>>> dir(collections)
['Callable', 'Container', 'Counter', 'Hashable', 'ItemsView', 'Iterable',
'Iterator', 'KeysView', 'Mapping', 'MappingView', 'MutableMapping',
'MutableSequence', 'MutableSet', 'OrderedDict', 'Sequence', 'Set', 'Sized',
'ValuesView', '_Link', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__',
'__name__', '__package__', '_abcoll', '_chain', '_eq', '_heapq', '_ifilter',
'_imap', '_iskeyword', '_itemgetter', '_proxy', '_repeat', '_starmap',
'_sys', 'defaultdict', 'deque', 'namedtuple']

~l0nwlf

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Bryan <bryanvick at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> unorderedDict = {}
> for thing in unorderedList:
>        if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>                UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>        else:
>                CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>        orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:00:12 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:30:12 +0530
Subject: Files required for porting python
In-Reply-To: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002220900wfea66e4l43cc46c32a7f987b@mail.gmail.com>

what do you exactly mean by "port python on to windows" ? Are you talking
about your application or python itself :-/

~l0nwlf

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, KIRAN <kiraank at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi ALL,
>
> I am newbie to python and wanted to port python on to some RTOS. The
> RTOS I am trying to port python is not posix compliant. First, I
> decided to port python on to windows and later I will port the same to
> my target system. [ This is just to minimize the effort being put
> port, debug and to stabilize]. I downloaded 2.6.1 python code and
> started looking through the code. I see lot of code with several
> files. I am not sure which code I should start with. Any help / link
> regarding this is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Kiran
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Mon Feb 22 12:08:08 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:08:08 -0600
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <eae285401002220908t7795659fr96e8776d21871158@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Bryan <bryanvick at gmail.com> wrote:

> unorderedDict = {}
> for thing in unorderedList:
>        if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>                UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>        else:
>                CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>        orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
>

It's not entirely clear what UpdateExistingValue and CreateNewValue do.
However, it looks like you are trying to create a dictionary where the keys
are sorted.  Is that right?

If so, you could use the sorteddict type from my blist package, which is
similar to an OrderDict except it efficiently keeps the keys in sorted order
instead of insertion order.  For example:

>>> from blist import sorteddict
>>> my_dict = sorteddict({1: 'a', 6: 'b', -5: 'c'})
>>> my_dict.keys()
[-5, 1, 6]
>>> my_dict[2] = 'd'
>>> my_dict.keys()
[-5, 1, 2, 6]

It's available here:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/blist/
--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com>
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From alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 22 12:10:38 2010
From: alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com (Alex Quinn)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:10:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?
Message-ID: <973565.53691.qm@web38208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Is there a way to have some kind of database (i.e. sqlite3, bsddb, dbm, etc.) that works out of the box on any Win/Linux/Mac machine with Python 2.6+ or 3.x? It's okay if the file format is different between machines, but I want my script to work without having to install anything.

Problems with current modules:

* Shelve used to do this.  Unfortunately, since bsddb was deprecated/removed from the standard distro and Windows doesn't have dbm or gdbm, the only remaining option on Windows is dumbdbm, which is discouraged in the docs.

* Sqlite3 should fill the void now.  However, in my experience, nearly every Linux Python install I encounter has a broken sqlite3 module ("ImportError: No module named _sqlite3"). It's a well-documented issue, but it the solution generally requires root access, which I don't have on these servers.

Potential solutions:

* Could I somehow bundle with my project the _sqlite3.so file and/or whatever else it needs? Or is there an alternate sqlite3 module I could use as a fallback that would just interface with the sqlite3 executable on the machine (i.e. /usr/local/bin/sqlite3)?

* Is there a way to drop bsddb into my project so it works out of the gate (no install) on either Linux, Windows, or Mac?

If you have any ideas, I'd be most appreciative.  My objective here is just to find a portable and reliable solution that I can use for small projects.

Thanks,
Alex
--
http://alexquinn.org



      


From kiraank at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:11:12 2010
From: kiraank at gmail.com (Kiran K)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:41:12 +0530
Subject: Files required for porting python
In-Reply-To: <d4ab53de1002220900wfea66e4l43cc46c32a7f987b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<d4ab53de1002220900wfea66e4l43cc46c32a7f987b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <775a6b621002220911m29664303xda13ce88f04072cb@mail.gmail.com>

I will try to provide the API's on windows that my RTOS provides ex. If my
RTOS has "fosCreateSemaphore" to create a semaphore I will implement the
same API [ same function prototype] on windows using win32 CreateSemaphore.
Similarly I will write a wrapper functions for accesing file system, task
manegement, memory management. With this abstraction layer, I am simulating
my target RTOS on windows [ I am ignoring realtime requirement on windows, I
will worry about it once I am done with python porting]. Hope you understand
the way I am going.

Thanks,
Kiran


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Shashwat Anand
<anand.shashwat at gmail.com>wrote:

> what do you exactly mean by "port python on to windows" ? Are you talking
> about your application or python itself :-/
>
> ~l0nwlf
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM, KIRAN <kiraank at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi ALL,
>>
>> I am newbie to python and wanted to port python on to some RTOS. The
>> RTOS I am trying to port python is not posix compliant. First, I
>> decided to port python on to windows and later I will port the same to
>> my target system. [ This is just to minimize the effort being put
>> port, debug and to stabilize]. I downloaded 2.6.1 python code and
>> started looking through the code. I see lot of code with several
>> files. I am not sure which code I should start with. Any help / link
>> regarding this is appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kiran
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Feb 22 12:17:14 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:17:14 +0100
Subject: Reading a large bz2 textfile exits early
In-Reply-To: <4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <mailman.2851.1266704280.28905.python-list@python.org>	<2NydneNvv9CPPBzWnZ2dnUVZ_jAAAAAA@earthlink.com>	<mailman.54.1266821397.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.22.08.02.00@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.56.1266828199.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b8286ec$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <hlue6q$s4t$1@dough.gmane.org>

Lie Ryan, 22.02.2010 14:29:
> On 02/22/10 19:43, Norman Rie? wrote:
>> Am 02/22/10 09:02, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:49:51 +0100, Norman Rie? wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> This is the actual code:
>>>>
>>>> source_file = bz2.BZ2File(file, "r")
>>>> for line in source_file:
>>>>       print line.strip()
>>>>
>>>> print "Exiting"
>>>> print "I used file: " + file
>>>>      
>>> Have you verified that the bz file is good by opening it in another
>>> application?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>> Yes, bzcat is running through the file fine. And piping bzcat output
>> into the python script reading stdin works fine, too.
> 
> test with using something other than bzcat; bzcat does certain things
> differently because of the way it works (a cat for bzipped file). Try
> using plain "bunzip2 filename.bz2"

Please note that all of this has already been suggested on the python-tutor
list.

Stefan



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 12:19:14 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:19:14 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B82BC92.8070304@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Bryan wrote:
> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
> 
Why are you building a dict from a list and then an ordered dict from
that? Just build the ordered dict from the list, because it's behaves
like a dict, except for remembering the order in which the keys were
added.


From barryjogorman at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:26:18 2010
From: barryjogorman at gmail.com (barryjogorman)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
Message-ID: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

HAVE THE FOLLOWING VERY BASIC PROGRAM:

class Person:
    def _init_(self,name, job=None, pay=0):
        self.name=name
        self.job=job
        self.pay=pay

bob = Person('Bob Smith')
sue = Person('Sue Jones', job='dev', pay = 100000)
print(bob.name, bob.pay)
print(sue.name, sue.pay)

I am getting the following error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:/Python31/person1.py", line 7, in <module>
    bob = Person('Bob Smith')
TypeError: object.__new__() takes no parameters



All suggestions gratefully received.



From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:28:22 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:28:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.70.1266859152.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:19?am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
> > I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary. ?From
> > that dict, I create an ordered dict. ?I can't think of a way to build
> > the ordered dict while going through the original loop. ?Is there a
> > way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> > ordered dict? ?Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> > unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> > the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> > become faster. ?Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> > an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> Why are you building a dict from a list and then an ordered dict from
> that? Just build the ordered dict from the list, because it's behaves
> like a dict, except for remembering the order in which the keys were
> added.

Could you write some pseudo-code for that?  I'm not sure how I would
add the items to the OrderedDict while looping through the list.
Wouldn't the list need to be sorted first (which in this case isn't
practical)?





From editor at pythonrag.org  Mon Feb 22 12:33:55 2010
From: editor at pythonrag.org (Bernard Czenkusz)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:33:55 -0600
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
References: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <NJWdnUi7LdyeXR_WnZ2dnUVZ7qNi4p2d@brightview.co.uk>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:26:18 -0800, barryjogorman wrote:

> HAVE THE FOLLOWING VERY BASIC PROGRAM:
> 
> class Person:
>     def _init_(self,name, job=None, pay=0):
>         self.name=name
>         self.job=job
>         self.pay=pay
> 
> bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> sue = Person('Sue Jones', job='dev', pay = 100000) print(bob.name,
> bob.pay)
> print(sue.name, sue.pay)
> 
> I am getting the following error message:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Python31/person1.py", line 7, in <module>
>     bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> TypeError: object.__new__() takes no parameters
> 
> 
> 
> All suggestions gratefully received.

The __init__ method starts and ends with two underscores,
not one underscore _init_ as you have used.


From agoretoy at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:43:03 2010
From: agoretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:43:03 -0600
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
In-Reply-To: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002220943t6cf40df3i2d4eeae8fd1e3fb7@mail.gmail.com>

you need to define init with two underscores, I've made that mistake myself
long long time ago :)

def __init__

not def _init_

-Alex Goretoy
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From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb 22 12:45:04 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:45:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com> <hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2282.1265790273.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<ky98c0.frh@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <hlufr0$qam$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-22, Albert van der Horst <albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> In article <87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a at f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,

>>Gabriel Genellina reports that time.clock() uses Windows'
>>QueryPerformanceCounter() API, which has much higher resolution
>>than the task switcher's 15ms.  QueryPerformanceCounter's
>>resolution is hardware-dependent; using the Win API, and a
>>little test program, I get this value on my machine: Frequency
>>is 3579545 ticks/sec Resolution is 0.279365114840015
>>microsecond/tick
>
> In Forth we add a small machine code routine that executes the
> RDTSC instruction. (I used that to play music on a couple of
> mechanical instruments in real time.) It just counts the (3
> Ghz) clock cycles in a 64 bit timer.

That's what clock.clock() does, except that it converts it into
a floating point value in seconds.

> Subtract two samples and you're done.

Nope.  It would fail the same way that clock.clock() does on a
multi-core Windows machine.

> Is there a mechanism in Python to do something similar,
> embedded assembler or something?

You'd get the same results as using clock.clock().  Just
different format/units.

> (This is not a general solution, but at least it would work on
> Windows, that is i86 only.)

It fails on Windows for the same reason that clock.clock()
fails: the counters read by the RDTSC instruction are not
synchronized between the different cores.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm a nuclear
                                  at               submarine under the
                               visi.com            polar ice cap and I need
                                                   a Kleenex!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 12:45:50 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:45:50 +0000
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
In-Reply-To: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B82C2CE.4050008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

barryjogorman wrote:
> HAVE THE FOLLOWING VERY BASIC PROGRAM:
> 
> class Person:
>     def _init_(self,name, job=None, pay=0):
>         self.name=name
>         self.job=job
>         self.pay=pay
> 
> bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> sue = Person('Sue Jones', job='dev', pay = 100000)
> print(bob.name, bob.pay)
> print(sue.name, sue.pay)
> 
> I am getting the following error message:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:/Python31/person1.py", line 7, in <module>
>     bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> TypeError: object.__new__() takes no parameters
> 
> 
> 
> All suggestions gratefully received.
> 
The special methods use double underscores, not single underscores, eg
__init__ not _init_.


From barryjogorman at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:46:52 2010
From: barryjogorman at gmail.com (barryjogorman)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:46:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Starting with Classes - basic problem
References: <64a57269-c7b8-4ce1-b2a6-1d5095afe74d@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<NJWdnUi7LdyeXR_WnZ2dnUVZ7qNi4p2d@brightview.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0a181737-9c67-45ae-bcf8-22d3e4690cf6@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 5:33?pm, Bernard Czenkusz <edi... at pythonrag.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:26:18 -0800, barryjogorman wrote:
> >HAVE THE FOLLOWING VERY BASIC PROGRAM:
>
> >class Person:
> > ? ?def _init_(self,name, job=None, pay=0):
> > ? ? ? ?self.name=name
> > ? ? ? ?self.job=job
> > ? ? ? ?self.pay=pay
>
> >bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> >sue = Person('Sue Jones', job='dev', pay = 100000) print(bob.name,
> >bob.pay)
> >print(sue.name, sue.pay)
>
> >I am getting the following error message:
>
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ?File "C:/Python31/person1.py", line 7, in <module>
> > ? ?bob = Person('Bob Smith')
> >TypeError: object.__new__() takes no parameters
>
> >All suggestions gratefully received.
>
> The __init__ method starts and ends with two underscores,not one underscore _init_ as you have used.

thanks


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 22 12:52:48 2010
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 17:52:48 GMT
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com> <hksl22$sq5$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2282.1265790273.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ky98c0.frh@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

In article <87404349-5d3a-4396-aeff-60edc14a506a at f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Paul McGuire  <ptmcg at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>On Feb 10, 2:24=A0am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:45:38 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
>> <inva... at invalid.invalid> declaimed the following in
>> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>> > Doesn't work. =A0datetime.datetime.now has granularity of
>> > 15-16ms.
>>
>> > Intervals much less that that often come back with a delta of
>> > 0. =A0A delay of 20ms produces a delta of either 15-16ms or
>> > 31-32ms
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 WinXP uses an ~15ms time quantum for task switching. Whic=
>h defines
>> the step rate of the wall clock output...
>>
>> http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/35546579/the-quantum-was-n...h=
>ttp://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/32823760/how-do-you-set-ti...
>>
>> http://www.lochan.org/2005/keith-cl/useful/win32time.html
>> --
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Wulfraed =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Dennis Lee Bieber =A0 =A0 =A0 =
>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 KD6MOG
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 wlfr... at ix.netcom.com =A0 =A0 HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.=
>com/
>
>Gabriel Genellina reports that time.clock() uses Windows'
>QueryPerformanceCounter() API, which has much higher resolution than
>the task switcher's 15ms.  QueryPerformanceCounter's resolution is
>hardware-dependent; using the Win API, and a little test program, I
>get this value on my machine:
>Frequency is 3579545 ticks/sec
>Resolution is 0.279365114840015 microsecond/tick

In Forth we add a small machine code routine that executes the
RDTSC instruction. (I used that to play music on a couple of
mechanical instruments in real time.)
It just counts the (3 Ghz) clock cycles in a 64 bit timer.
Subtract two samples and you're done.

Is there a mechanism in Python to do something similar,
embedded assembler or something?

(This is not a general solution, but at least it would work on
Windows, that is i86 only.)

>
>-- Paul


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 22 13:01:44 2010
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 22 Feb 2010 18:01:44 GMT
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Terrence Cole  <terrence at zettabytestorage.com> wrote:
>Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>
>Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47)
>[GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1

Python 4.0
Warning: misleading blank space, expected:
  - 0.1**0.1

>-0.7943282347242815
>>>> a = -0.1; b = 0.1
>>>> a ** b
>(0.7554510437117542+0.2454609236416552j)
>>>> -abs(a ** b)
>-0.7943282347242815
>
>Why does the literal version return the signed magnitude and the
>variable version return a complex?
>
>Cheers,
>Terrence
>


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 13:04:20 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:04:20 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.70.1266859152.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B82C724.7030202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Bryan wrote:
> On Feb 22, 9:19 am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> Bryan wrote:
>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>> Why are you building a dict from a list and then an ordered dict from
>> that? Just build the ordered dict from the list, because it's behaves
>> like a dict, except for remembering the order in which the keys were
>> added.
> 
> Could you write some pseudo-code for that?  I'm not sure how I would
> add the items to the OrderedDict while looping through the list.
> Wouldn't the list need to be sorted first (which in this case isn't
> practical)?
> 
ordered != sorted.

If you want the ordered dict to be sorted by key then build a dict first
and then create the ordered dict from the sorted dict. I think the
quickest way to build the sorted dict is:

     orderedDict = OrderedDict(sorted(unorderedDict.items()))

although I haven't tried 'sorteddict' (see Daniel Stutzbach's post).


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 13:09:31 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:09:31 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2r5odcfc4.fsf@googlemail.com>

Bryan <bryanvick at gmail.com> writes:

> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> unorderedDict = {}
> for thing in unorderedList:
> 	if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> 		UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> 	else:
> 		CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> 	orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)

Why don't you sort your unorderedList first then simply create your
orderedDict?

To me your problem is stated in too vague terms anyway and the code you
post could not really work as unorderedDict is bound to remain empty
whatever the values of all the other names.

At any rate, why do you need an ordered dictionary?  It seems suspect to
me as you sort the keys before inserting the items.

-- 
Arnaud


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Feb 22 13:15:38 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:38 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.70.1266859152.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<90510ec9-27ea-48c2-b9d9-2903b7aba6e3@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hluhjq$a60$1@dough.gmane.org>

Bryan wrote:
> On Feb 22, 9:19 am, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
>> Bryan wrote:
>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>> Why are you building a dict from a list and then an ordered dict from
>> that? Just build the ordered dict from the list, because it's behaves
>> like a dict, except for remembering the order in which the keys were
>> added.
> 
> Could you write some pseudo-code for that?  I'm not sure how I would
> add the items to the OrderedDict while looping through the list.
> Wouldn't the list need to be sorted first (which in this case isn't
> practical)?
> 
> 
> 

Could you please clarify what you are trying to achieve as you appear to 
be confusing ordering with sorting.

Mark Lawrence.



From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb 22 13:30:31 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hluigd$kag$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/22/2010 8:29 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-02-22, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>
>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B.
>
> [tail of various windows breakages elided]
>
>> Comments?
>
> Switch to Linux?
>
> Or at least install Cygwin?
>
Yes, definitely not related, but maybe some W7 user has a similar 
experience here. It seems a natural place to look, since it should be 
reasonably common.

I have Cygwin.


From sridharr at activestate.com  Mon Feb 22 13:53:31 2010
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:53:31 -0800
Subject: Python won't run
In-Reply-To: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502AC479A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
References: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502AC479A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
Message-ID: <46D34AB9-9DC7-47E9-8288-2B5DFDB55BB8@activestate.com>

Have you tried using http://dependencywalker.com/ ?

-srid

On 2010-02-18, at 1:00 PM, Nardin, Cory L. wrote:

> Quickly, I have a Mac Intel with Windows XP installed.  Tried installing Python 2.6.4 from the binary and also ActivePython 2.6.4.10.  Both installations acted the same.  There seemed to be no problems during installation (used default options), but when I try to run Python I get an error message: ?This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application may fix this problem.?
>  
> Of course I searched on that error and it seems to be related to a MS library.  In a few different places it was recommended to install the MS Visual Studio redistributable package, which I did with no change in outcome.  I really have no idea what to do.
>  
> Any help is appreciated.
>  
> Thanks,
> Cory
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 22 13:57:56 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:57:56 +0100
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Bryan:
> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
> 
> unorderedDict = {}
> for thing in unorderedList:
> 	if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> 		UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> 	else:
> 		CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])

If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.


> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> 	orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)

This is not even valid syntax.


Please

   (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
       imagine the solution, and

   (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).

The above code is not real.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From hansmu at xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 22 14:32:45 2010
From: hansmu at xs4all.nl (Hans Mulder)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:32:45 +0100
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
In-Reply-To: <tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>
Message-ID: <4b82dc5a$0$22916$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

G?nther Dietrich wrote:
> vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
>> I've tried:
>>
>> print format(.7,'%%')
>> .7.format('%%')
>>
>> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...
> 
> Did you try this:
> 
>>>> print('%d%%' % (0.7 * 100))
> 70%

That method will always round down; TomF's method will round to
the nearest whole number:

 >>> print "%d%%" % (0.698 * 100)
69%
 >>> print "{0:.0%}".format(.698)
70%

Only the OP knows which one is more appropriate for his use case.

Hope this helps,

-- HansM


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 14:41:45 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:41:45 -0800
Subject: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?
In-Reply-To: <973565.53691.qm@web38208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <973565.53691.qm@web38208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002221141u534fd5f7v8748f50f9094011f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Alex Quinn <alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> * Sqlite3 should fill the void now. ?However, in my experience, nearly every Linux Python install I encounter has a broken sqlite3 module ("ImportError: No module named _sqlite3"). It's a well-documented issue, but it the solution generally requires root access, which I don't have on these servers.
>

If your program is installed in the same way everything else is
installed on the system (RPM or deb packages, or whatever), there
should be dependencies clearly listed. When the admin installs your
code, he must also install the requisite modules that you list as
dependencies.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 14:45:10 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:45:10 -0800
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <20100221212511.GA23046@beron.tangosoft.com>
References: <20100221212511.GA23046@beron.tangosoft.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002221145o2527b03ds74a473d59bd079@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 1:25 PM, W. Martin Borgert <debacle at debian.org> wrote:
>
> I know that this issue has been discussed before, but most of
> the time using only one argument to eval().
>
> Is it possible to use the following code, e.g. run as part of a
> web application, to break in and if so, how?
>
> import math
>
> def myeval(untrustedinput):
> ? ?return eval(untrustedinput, {"__builtins__": None},
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?{ "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
>
> Is it possible to define functions or import modules from the
> untrusted input string?
>
> Which Python built-ins and math functions would I have to add to
> the functions dictionary to make it unsafe?
>

Why would you ever run untrusted code on any machine in any language,
let alone Python?

If you're writing a web app, make it so that you only run trusted
code. That is, code installed by the admin, or approved by the admin.

--
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 15:00:19 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:00:19 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002221200g467f229cm4710db0d70d21105@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 10:22 AM, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
>>> then?
>>
>> Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in
>> functional languages.
>
> Heh! When I learned Miranda it felt natural to me. Prolog on the other
> hand...
>
> In short: I am afraid you're overgeneralizing here; it depends on one's
> background. If not, citation needed ;-)
>

Unfortunately, this is something that is hardly measurable. Short of a
survey (of whom? of what?), there can be no objective evaluation. To
date, I don't know of any such studies or surveys.

I won't deny that really smart people enjoy the challenge of
programming in a functional style, and some even find it easier to
work with. However, when it comes to readability and maintenance, I
appreciate the statement-based programming style, simply because it's
easier for me to understand an debug.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb 22 15:07:30 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:07:30 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xsk8tuj99.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
> I won't deny that really smart people enjoy the challenge of
> programming in a functional style, and some even find it easier to
> work with. However, when it comes to readability and maintenance, I
> appreciate the statement-based programming style, simply because it's
> easier for me to understand an debug.

One thing those people are after is programs that work properly the
first time they are run, and thus don't need debugging.  They achieve
that a surprising amount of the time.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Mon Feb 22 15:16:26 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:16:26 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>

MRAB wrote:
> W. eWatson wrote:
>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It inspects 
>> the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it gave the 
>> results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A, and fired 
>> up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the file. I looked 
>> at properties for the B program, and it was clearly pointing to folder A.
>>
> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.

Windows 7 has symbolic links?


From ra21vi at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 15:19:15 2010
From: ra21vi at gmail.com (Ravi Kumar)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:19:15 +0000
Subject: GUI app on Windows for WMI digging
Message-ID: <9a63e8921002221219p38c03de2mfbf74a7301cbc6dd@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am working on an application, which retrieves Windows system info
(Hardware / Software / Drivers / OS) and write to an xml.
For the GUI, I selected PyQT4, and for system info using WMI, I am using WMI
Package (http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi/index.html) and popular pywin32.
To package the binary, I am considering py2exe.

I need to package these in binary package (though single binary output was
preferred, but could not find any examples online to achieve this). Also, I
took PyQT4, but I can switch to PyGTK if it is possible to get it in single
DLL/libs.

Overall, I need suggestions on:

   - which XML library is better/lightweight on Windows?I think pure python
   based xml processing libs would work (so lxml is out of option).
   - Can I get these in single binary (not installer), or if not, then how
   can I get in minimum files. Py2exe results many files.
   - Is QT4 better or GTK? No war/flaming over this, since least widgets are
   needed, which are available on both. Since the GUI is just 3-4
   screens/dialogs with minimum widgets, so speed does not matter. The only
   thing that matter is least files/libs (no seperate installation, file can
   provided with binary package).

-- 
-=Ravi=-
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From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb 22 15:31:18 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:31:18 -0600
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>

Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:

> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 10:22 AM, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net> writes:
>>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Now, why don't we start a PEP to make python a fully-functional language
>>>> then?
>>>
>>> Because people don't think the same way that programs are written in
>>> functional languages.
>>
>> Heh! When I learned Miranda it felt natural to me. Prolog on the other
>> hand...
>>
>> In short: I am afraid you're overgeneralizing here; it depends on one's
>> background. If not, citation needed ;-)
>>
>
> Unfortunately, this is something that is hardly measurable. Short of a
> survey (of whom? of what?), there can be no objective evaluation. To
> date, I don't know of any such studies or surveys.
>
> I won't deny that really smart people enjoy the challenge of
> programming in a functional style, and some even find it easier to
> work with. However, when it comes to readability and maintenance, I
> appreciate the statement-based programming style, simply because it's
> easier for me to understand an debug.

In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
functionally. The former group consisted mostly of people who had little
or no programming experience, with a few exceptions (including me :-) ).

So I have the feeling it has more to do with your background then how
people think / are wired.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb 22 15:33:43 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:33:43 -0600
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>

Gib Bogle <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> writes:

> MRAB wrote:
>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It
>>> inspects the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it
>>> gave the results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A,
>>> and fired up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the
>>> file. I looked at properties for the B program, and it was clearly
>>> pointing to folder A.
>>>
>> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.
>
> Windows 7 has symbolic links?

   Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
   compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
   its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.

   :
   
   Symbolic links are available in NTFS starting with Windows Vista.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365680(VS.85).aspx

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From icanbob at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 15:37:10 2010
From: icanbob at gmail.com (bobicanprogram)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:37:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ANN: Python-SIMPL v2.0.0 released
References: <964d1dcb-46a9-40a5-ab41-199fd1e364a7@t21g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <40dd1bcc-4791-463d-a730-d8e3c52ff2a2@f8g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:40 am, bobicanprogram <ican... at gmail.com> wrote:
> The SIMPL project (http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl) aims to bring the
> Send/Receive/Reply messaging (first popularized by QNX) to the open
> source Linux world.   Since its inception more that 10 years ago,  the
> SIMPL toolkit has grown steadily in functionality.   Through the use
> of surrogates,  SIMPL modules can be dispersed seamlessly across
> networks including heterogeneous networks with only one Linux node.
> SIMPL modules can also be written in several programming languages
> including Python, C, C++, JAVA and Tcl/Tk.   Modules written in
> different languages can be mixed in a SIMPL appliction.
>
> Python-SIMPL has been used to connect Python UIs to C data acquisition/
> computation backends.   While this is an example of a common use for
> the toolkit,  it is by no means the only place it could be useful.
> Python to Python,  Python to JAVA as well as Python to C are all
> seamlessly possible in both local or distributed applications.  Python-
> SIMPL allows a software application to be broken up into modules where
> the language choices for each module can be optimized.
>
> The Python-SIMPL interface library has undergone a fundamental
> revision with the v2.0.0 release. The underlying shared library which
> wraps the SIMPL toolkit as a Python extension was cleaned up
> considerably.   In addition two new Python wrappers were created to
> expose this SIMPL toolkit in more object oriented fashion to the
> Python developer.
>
> The simplest starting point for exploring the Python-SIMPL toolkit is
> an online "hello world" level tutorial at:
>
> http://www.icanprogram.com/06py/lesson1/lesson1.html
>
> The Python-SIMPL toolkit can be downloaded in source form at:
>
> http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/python.self.htm
>
> or in precompiled binary (i386) form at:
>
> http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/pythonbin.self.html
>
> We at the SIMPL project welcome participants at all levels of
> expertise.   If you are interested do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> bob


There is a typo in the source link.  It should read

http://www.icanprogram.com/simpl/python.self.html

Sorry about that.

bob


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb 22 16:19:32 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:19:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hlusd4$5c6$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-22, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Gib Bogle <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> writes:
>
>> MRAB wrote:
>>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It
>>>> inspects the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it
>>>> gave the results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A,
>>>> and fired up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the
>>>> file. I looked at properties for the B program, and it was clearly
>>>> pointing to folder A.
>>>>
>>> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.
>>
>> Windows 7 has symbolic links?
>
>    Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
>    compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
>    its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.

So symbolic links on W7 function like Unix (hard) links
rather than Unix _symbolic_ links??

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Is this sexual
                                  at               intercourse yet??  Is it,
                               visi.com            huh, is it??


From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 16:29:26 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:29:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 10:57?am, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * Bryan:
>
>
>
> > I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary. ?From
> > that dict, I create an ordered dict. ?I can't think of a way to build
> > the ordered dict while going through the original loop. ?Is there a
> > way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> > ordered dict? ?Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> > unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> > the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> > become faster. ?Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> > an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> > unorderedDict = {}
> > for thing in unorderedList:
> > ? ?if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> > ? ?else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>
> > orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> > for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> > ? ?orderedDict[k] ?unorderedDict.pop(k)
>
> This is not even valid syntax.
>
> Please
>
> ? ?(1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
> ? ? ? ?imagine the solution, and
>
> ? ?(2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>
> The above code is not real.
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
*sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
recipe for an OrderedDict.

Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?

My solution is to create a regular dict from the list.  Then sort the
keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict.  Since the keys are
being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
order.

self.accTotals = {}
for row in self.rows:
	if row.acc.code in self.accTotals:
		self.accTotals[row.acc.code].addRow(row)
	else:
		accSummary = Total()
		accSummary.addRow(row)
		self.accTotals[row.acc.code] = accSummary
self.accTotals = self._getOrderedDict(self.accTotals)


From aonlazio at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 16:56:02 2010
From: aonlazio at gmail.com (AON LAZIO)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:56:02 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
Message-ID: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>

That will be superb

-- 
Passion is my style
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From john at castleamber.com  Mon Feb 22 17:02:47 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:02:47 -0600
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hlusd4$5c6$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <873a0tszco.fsf@castleamber.com>

Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 2010-02-22, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Gib Bogle <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> writes:
>>
>>> MRAB wrote:
>>>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It
>>>>> inspects the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it
>>>>> gave the results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A,
>>>>> and fired up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the
>>>>> file. I looked at properties for the B program, and it was clearly
>>>>> pointing to folder A.
>>>>>
>>>> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.
>>>
>>> Windows 7 has symbolic links?
>>
>>    Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
>>    compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
>>    its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.
>
> So symbolic links on W7 function like Unix (hard) links
> rather than Unix _symbolic_ links??

Which leads you to this conclusion?

According to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365006(VS.85).aspx

    There are three types of file links supported in the NTFS file
    system: hard links, junctions, and symbolic links. This topic is an
    overview of hard links and junctions. For information about symbolic
    links, see Creating Symbolic Links.

Creating Symbolic Links:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa363878(VS.85).aspx

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 17:10:47 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:10:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <a5e840b4-dd74-48b2-8c65-b4e00b0a8d96@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 22 Feb, 21:29, Bryan <bryanv... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up. ?I want to end up with a
> *sorted* dict from an unordered list. ?*Sorting the list is not
> practical in this case.* ?I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> recipe for an OrderedDict.

Why does the dict need to be sorted?
Why is it impractical to sort the list, but practical to sort the
dict?

Whithout knowing this, it is difficult to get an idea of your problem
an a potential solution.

> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list. ?Then sort the
> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict. ?Since the keys are
> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
> order.
>
> self.accTotals = {}
> for row in self.rows:
> ? ? ? ? if row.acc.code in self.accTotals:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.accTotals[row.acc.code].addRow(row)
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? accSummary = Total()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? accSummary.addRow(row)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.accTotals[row.acc.code] = accSummary
> self.accTotals = self._getOrderedDict(self.accTotals)

This code is a typical example where defaultdict, which was added in
Python 2.5 [1],  would be of use:

accTotals = defaultdict(Total)
for row in self.rows:
    accTotals[row.acc.code].addRow(row)
self.accTotals = self._getOrderedDict(accTotals)

However, as you don't explain what self._getOrderedDict(...) does, it
is quite difficult to guess how to improve it!

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html#collections.defaultdict
--
Arnaud


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Mon Feb 22 17:10:54 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:10:54 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>

John Bokma wrote:
> Gib Bogle <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> writes:
> 
>> MRAB wrote:
>>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B. It
>>>> inspects the contents of files in a folder. When I ran it in B, it
>>>> gave the results for A! Out of frustration I changed the name in A,
>>>> and fired up the program in B. Win7 went into search mode for the
>>>> file. I looked at properties for the B program, and it was clearly
>>>> pointing to folder A.
>>>>
>>> Sounds like you didn't copy it but made a shortcut to it instead.
>> Windows 7 has symbolic links?
> 
>    Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
>    compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
>    its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.
> 
>    :
>    
>    Symbolic links are available in NTFS starting with Windows Vista.
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365680(VS.85).aspx
> 

That explains my ignorance of this (excellent) development.  I'm still using W2K 
and XP.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Feb 22 17:16:07 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:16:07 +0100
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
> On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no>  wrote:
>> * Bryan:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>>
>>> unorderedDict = {}
>>> for thing in unorderedList:
>>>     if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>>>             UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>>     else:
>>>             CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>
>> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>>
>>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
>>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>>>     orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
>>
>> This is not even valid syntax.
>>
>> Please
>>
>>     (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
>>         imagine the solution, and
>>
>>     (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>>
>> The above code is not real.
>>
>> Cheers&  hth.,
>>
>> - Alf
>
> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
> *sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
> practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>
> Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>
> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list.  Then sort the
> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict.  Since the keys are
> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
> order.

If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't 
sort the list. If you have the space & time to sort the intermediate 
dict, then it's as easy to create the list & sort & then the ordered 
dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.

Diez


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Mon Feb 22 17:40:27 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:40:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hlusd4$5c6$1@reader2.panix.com> <873a0tszco.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hlv14r$n3e$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-22, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> writes:

>>>> Windows 7 has symbolic links?
>>>
>>>    Symbolic links are designed to aid in migration and application
>>>    compatibility with UNIX operating systems. Microsoft has implemented
>>>    its symbolic links to function just like UNIX links.

>>
>> So symbolic links on W7 function like Unix (hard) links
>> rather than Unix _symbolic_ links??
>
> Which leads you to this conclusion?

The quote above that says that "symbolic links" on W7 function
just like "links" on Unix.  A "link" on Unix is a hard link.  I
presumed that if they meant "symbolic links" on Unix, they
would have said "symbolic links".


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! What a COINCIDENCE!
                                  at               I'm an authorized "SNOOTS
                               visi.com            OF THE STARS" dealer!!


From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 17:48:55 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:48:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
	<7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 2:16?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no> ?wrote:
> >> * Bryan:
>
> >>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary. ?From
> >>> that dict, I create an ordered dict. ?I can't think of a way to build
> >>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop. ?Is there a
> >>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> >>> ordered dict? ?Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> >>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> >>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> >>> become faster. ?Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> >>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> >>> unorderedDict = {}
> >>> for thing in unorderedList:
> >>> ? ? if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> >>> ? ? else:
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> >> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>
> >>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> >>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> >>> ? ? orderedDict[k] ?unorderedDict.pop(k)
>
> >> This is not even valid syntax.
>
> >> Please
>
> >> ? ? (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
> >> ? ? ? ? imagine the solution, and
>
> >> ? ? (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>
> >> The above code is not real.
>
> >> Cheers& ?hth.,
>
> >> - Alf
>
> > Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up. ?I want to end up with a
> > *sorted* dict from an unordered list. ?*Sorting the list is not
> > practical in this case.* ?I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> > recipe for an OrderedDict.
>
> > Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>
> > My solution is to create a regular dict from the list. ?Then sort the
> > keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict. ?Since the keys are
> > being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
> > end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
> > order.
>
> If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't
> sort the list. If you have the space & time to sort the intermediate
> dict, then it's as easy to create the list & sort & then the ordered
> dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.
>
> Diez

Here is how I am converting a regular dict to an ordered dict that is
sorted by keys.

def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
	ordered = OrderedDict()
	for k in sorted(theDict.keys()):
		ordered[k] = theDict.pop(k)
	return ordered


The list is a bunch of objects that represent hours worked by
employees on particular jobs, and accounts, and client purchase orders
etc.  From this list, I am generating these sorted dicts that contain
summarizing information about the list.  So one of the sorted dicts
will give a summary of hours worked by job number.  Another one will
give summary information by client PO number etc.  So instead of
sorting the list a bunch of different ways, I keep the list as is,
generate the summaries I need into dictionaries, and then sort those
dictionaries as appropriate.






From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb 22 18:00:08 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:00:08 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <7xvddori4n.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> writes:
> In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
> functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
> latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
> languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
> functionally. 

I've heard it expressed this way (paraphrased): functional programming
has a steep unlearning curve.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Feb 22 18:00:32 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:00:32 +0100
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
	<7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uggkhFbc9U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 22.02.10 23:48, schrieb Bryan:
> On Feb 22, 2:16 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de>  wrote:
>> Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no>    wrote:
>>>> * Bryan:
>>
>>>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>>
>>>>> unorderedDict = {}
>>>>> for thing in unorderedList:
>>>>>      if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>>>>>              UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>>>>      else:
>>>>>              CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>
>>>> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>>
>>>>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
>>>>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>>>>>      orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
>>
>>>> This is not even valid syntax.
>>
>>>> Please
>>
>>>>      (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
>>>>          imagine the solution, and
>>
>>>>      (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>>
>>>> The above code is not real.
>>
>>>> Cheers&    hth.,
>>
>>>> - Alf
>>
>>> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
>>> *sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
>>> practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
>>> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>>
>>> Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>>
>>> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list.  Then sort the
>>> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict.  Since the keys are
>>> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
>>> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
>>> order.
>>
>> If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't
>> sort the list. If you have the space&  time to sort the intermediate
>> dict, then it's as easy to create the list&  sort&  then the ordered
>> dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.
>>
>> Diez
>
> Here is how I am converting a regular dict to an ordered dict that is
> sorted by keys.
>
> def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
> 	ordered = OrderedDict()
> 	for k in sorted(theDict.keys()):
> 		ordered[k] = theDict.pop(k)
> 	return ordered
>
>
> The list is a bunch of objects that represent hours worked by
> employees on particular jobs, and accounts, and client purchase orders
> etc.  From this list, I am generating these sorted dicts that contain
> summarizing information about the list.  So one of the sorted dicts
> will give a summary of hours worked by job number.  Another one will
> give summary information by client PO number etc.  So instead of
> sorting the list a bunch of different ways, I keep the list as is,
> generate the summaries I need into dictionaries, and then sort those
> dictionaries as appropriate.

Again - why? Unless there is some filtering going on that reduces the 
number of total entries before the sorting when building the 
intermediate dict, a simple

ordered = OrderedDict(sorted(the_list, key=lambda v: v['some_key']))

won't cost you a dime more.

I think you believe in building the dict so that ou can have the key for 
sorting. As shown abov - you don't need to.

It might even benefitial to really re-sort the original list, because 
that spares you the intermediate list.


Diez


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 18:00:48 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:00:48 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlv2b0$jc3$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <1ecc71bf-54ab-45e6-a38a-d1861f0921d3 at v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:

> On Feb 20, 1:30 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>
>> In message <op.u8at0suda8ncjz at gnudebst>, Rhodri James wrote:
>>
>> > In classic Pascal, a procedure was distinct from a function in that it
>> > had no return value.  The concept doesn't really apply in Python; there
>> > are no procedures in that sense, since if a function terminates without
>> > supplying an explicit return value it returns None.
>>
>> If Python doesn?t distinguish between procedures and functions, why
>> should it distinguish between statements and expressions?
> 
> Because the latter are different in Python (and in Ruby, and in most
> modern languages), while the former aren't distinguished in Python or
> Ruby or most modern languages?  Primarily functional languages are the
> main exception, but other than them it's pretty uncommon to find any
> modern language that does distinguish procedures and functions, or one
> that doesn't distinguished statements and expressions.
> 
> You can certainly find exceptions, but distinguishing statements and
> expressions is absolutely commonplace in modern languages, and
> distinguishing functions and procedures is in the minority.

So they are worth distinguishing where they are distinguished, except where
they?re not?


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 18:01:57 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:01:57 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlv2d5$jc3$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list at python.org>, MRAB wrote:

> Not Python-related.

Seems to be pretty common with Windows-related complaints in this group.


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 18:06:36 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:06:36 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hlusd4$5c6$1@reader2.panix.com> <873a0tszco.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hlv2lt$jc3$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <873a0tszco.fsf at castleamber.com>, John Bokma wrote:

> According to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365006(VS.85).aspx
> 
>     There are three types of file links supported in the NTFS file
>     system: hard links, junctions, and symbolic links. This topic is an
>     overview of hard links and junctions.

?Junctions? sound like Linux/Unix ?mount points?, plus Linux-style ?bind 
mounts?. Except of course Dimdows puts it all into the NTFS-specific 
implementation, instead of at the virtual filesystem layer. So whereas Linux 
can handle these while letting you mix and match different filesystem types 
(ext3, XFS, even FAT32, etc), Windows cannot.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 18:08:17 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:08:17 +0000
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>	<7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B830E61.8000700@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Bryan wrote:
> On Feb 22, 2:16 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
>> Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no>  wrote:
>>>> * Bryan:
>>>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary.  From
>>>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict.  I can't think of a way to build
>>>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop.  Is there a
>>>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
>>>>> ordered dict?  Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
>>>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
>>>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
>>>>> become faster.  Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
>>>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>>>>> unorderedDict = {}
>>>>> for thing in unorderedList:
>>>>>     if thing.id in unorderedDict:
>>>>>             UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>>>>     else:
>>>>>             CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>>>> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>>>>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
>>>>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
>>>>>     orderedDict[k]  unorderedDict.pop(k)
>>>> This is not even valid syntax.
>>>> Please
>>>>     (1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
>>>>         imagine the solution, and
>>>>     (2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>>>> The above code is not real.
>>>> Cheers&  hth.,
>>>> - Alf
>>> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
>>> *sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
>>> practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
>>> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>>> Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>>> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list.  Then sort the
>>> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict.  Since the keys are
>>> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
>>> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
>>> order.
>> If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't
>> sort the list. If you have the space & time to sort the intermediate
>> dict, then it's as easy to create the list & sort & then the ordered
>> dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.
>>
>> Diez
> 
> Here is how I am converting a regular dict to an ordered dict that is
> sorted by keys.
> 
> def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
> 	ordered = OrderedDict()
> 	for k in sorted(theDict.keys()):
> 		ordered[k] = theDict.pop(k)
> 	return ordered
> 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, you could do:

     def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
         return OrderedDict(sorted(theDict.items()))

[snip]


From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 18:27:52 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:27:52 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002221527j416d3fc5k770d5bafe7dfd0ae@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
> That will be superb
>
> --
> Passion is my style

And when will <insert random band> be as famous as the beatles?


From bryanvick at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 18:31:32 2010
From: bryanvick at gmail.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:31:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
	<7uge18Fta5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49a75c77-92fc-483a-bce8-63f3e280d139@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<7uggkhFbc9U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8c9b72a6-8496-4992-a521-37221ebd68da@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 3:00?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 22.02.10 23:48, schrieb Bryan:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 22, 2:16 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> ?wrote:
> >> Am 22.02.10 22:29, schrieb Bryan:
>
> >>> On Feb 22, 10:57 am, "Alf P. Steinbach"<al... at start.no> ? ?wrote:
> >>>> * Bryan:
>
> >>>>> I am looping through a list and creating a regular dictionary. ?From
> >>>>> that dict, I create an ordered dict. ?I can't think of a way to build
> >>>>> the ordered dict while going through the original loop. ?Is there a
> >>>>> way I can avoid creating the first unordered dict just to get the
> >>>>> ordered dict? ?Also, I am using pop(k) to retrieve the values from the
> >>>>> unordered dict while building the ordered one because I figure that as
> >>>>> the values are removed from the unordered dict, the lookups will
> >>>>> become faster. ?Is there a better idiom that the code below to create
> >>>>> an ordered dict from an unordered list?
>
> >>>>> unorderedDict = {}
> >>>>> for thing in unorderedList:
> >>>>> ? ? ?if thing.id in unorderedDict:
> >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?UpdateExistingValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
> >>>>> ? ? ?else:
> >>>>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?CreateNewValue(unorderedDict[thing.id])
>
> >>>> If this were real code the last statement would generate an exception.
>
> >>>>> orderedDict = OrderedDict()
> >>>>> for k in sorted(unorderedDict.keys()):
> >>>>> ? ? ?orderedDict[k] ?unorderedDict.pop(k)
>
> >>>> This is not even valid syntax.
>
> >>>> Please
>
> >>>> ? ? ?(1) explain the problem that you're trying to solve, not how you
> >>>> ? ? ? ? ?imagine the solution, and
>
> >>>> ? ? ?(2) if you have any code, please post real code (copy and paste).
>
> >>>> The above code is not real.
>
> >>>> Cheers& ? ?hth.,
>
> >>>> - Alf
>
> >>> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up. ?I want to end up with a
> >>> *sorted* dict from an unordered list. ?*Sorting the list is not
> >>> practical in this case.* ?I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> >>> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>
> >>> Given these requirements/limitations, how would you do it?
>
> >>> My solution is to create a regular dict from the list. ?Then sort the
> >>> keys, and add the keys+values to an OrderedDict. ?Since the keys are
> >>> being added to the OrderedDict in the correctly sorted order, at the
> >>> end I end up with a OrderedDict that is in the correctly *sorted*
> >>> order.
>
> >> If that works for you, I don't understand your assertion that you can't
> >> sort the list. If you have the space& ?time to sort the intermediate
> >> dict, then it's as easy to create the list& ?sort& ?then the ordered
> >> dict from it. It should be faster, because you sort the keys anyway.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > Here is how I am converting a regular dict to an ordered dict that is
> > sorted by keys.
>
> > def _getOrderedDict(theDict):
> > ? ?ordered = OrderedDict()
> > ? ?for k in sorted(theDict.keys()):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?ordered[k] = theDict.pop(k)
> > ? ?return ordered
>
> > The list is a bunch of objects that represent hours worked by
> > employees on particular jobs, and accounts, and client purchase orders
> > etc. ?From this list, I am generating these sorted dicts that contain
> > summarizing information about the list. ?So one of the sorted dicts
> > will give a summary of hours worked by job number. ?Another one will
> > give summary information by client PO number etc. ?So instead of
> > sorting the list a bunch of different ways, I keep the list as is,
> > generate the summaries I need into dictionaries, and then sort those
> > dictionaries as appropriate.
>
> Again - why? Unless there is some filtering going on that reduces the
> number of total entries before the sorting when building the
> intermediate dict, a simple
>
> ordered = OrderedDict(sorted(the_list, key=lambda v: v['some_key']))
>
> won't cost you a dime more.
>
> I think you believe in building the dict so that ou can have the key for
> sorting. As shown abov - you don't need to.
>
> It might even benefitial to really re-sort the original list, because
> that spares you the intermediate list.
>
> Diez

Lets say my list has 1 million items.  If I sort the list before
summarizing it, I will absolutley have to sort 1 million items.

However, if I summarize first, then just sort the keys in the summary
dict, I could wind up only sorting 4 or 5 items, if within that 1
million item list, there were only 4 or 5 job numbers for example.
The list stays as is, and my summary dictionary is sorted so I can
iterate through it and make little reports that humans will like.




From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Feb 22 18:34:58 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:34:58 -0500
Subject: Efficiently building ordered dict
In-Reply-To: <4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
References: <b2ef126c-d266-4f13-9c13-c1c698ba6744@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<hluk3l$3k6$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4fa3eaeb-4627-4e0c-89cd-e19c84a92e67@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8314A2.500@optimum.net>

On 2/22/2010 4:29 PM, Bryan wrote:
>
> Sorry about the sorted != ordered mix up.  I want to end up with a
> *sorted* dict from an unordered list.  *Sorting the list is not
> practical in this case.*  I am using python 2.5, with an ActiveState
> recipe for an OrderedDict.
>

Have you looked at this:

   http://pypi.python.org/pypi/sorteddict/1.2.1

 >>> data = zip('afcedbijhg', range(10))
 >>> old = dict(data)
 >>> for key in old:
...     print key, old[key]
...
a 0
c 2
b 5
e 3
d 4
g 9
f 1
i 6
h 8
j 7
 >>> new = sorteddict.sorteddict(data)
 >>> for key in new:
...     print key, new[key]
...
a 0
b 5
c 2
d 4
e 3
f 1
g 9
h 8
i 6
j 7

-John


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 18:57:22 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:57:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ec471ca5-6ee4-49f9-b64c-947bafdc109e@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 3:27?pm, Krister Svanlund <krister.svanl... at gmail.com>
wrote:

> And when will <insert random band> be as famous as the Beatles?

And when will <insert random non-schmaltzoid singer) be as famous as
Phil Collins?


From falk at mauve.rahul.net  Mon Feb 22 19:01:30 2010
From: falk at mauve.rahul.net (Edward A. Falk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:01:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>

You mean it's not?

-- 
	-Ed Falk, falk at despams.r.us.com
	http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/


From alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 22 19:01:44 2010
From: alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com (Alex Quinn)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:01:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002221141u534fd5f7v8748f50f9094011f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <973565.53691.qm@web38208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6cc20cea1002221141u534fd5f7v8748f50f9094011f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <146400.8956.qm@web38205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the reply, Jonathan, but I was hoping to find a workaround.  I don't have root access for these machines so I can't repair the install.  Among the 6 Linux servers at 3 separately managed organizations where I do work, the sqlite3 module was broken 100% of the time.  It seems to be a common problem, so I'd like to make my code robust enough to deal with it gracefully.  Ideally, the Python build process would refuse to install a faulty install, but that's another matter.  I'm just looking for a workaround.

Thanks,
Alex



----- Original Message ----
From: Jonathan Gardner <jgardner at jonathangardner.net>
To: Alex Quinn <alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com>
Cc: python-list at python.org
Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 2:41:45 PM
Subject: Re: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Alex Quinn <alexanderjquinn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> * Sqlite3 should fill the void now.  However, in my experience, nearly every Linux Python install I encounter has a broken sqlite3 module ("ImportError: No module named _sqlite3"). It's a well-documented issue, but it the solution generally requires root access, which I don't have on these servers.
>

If your program is installed in the same way everything else is
installed on the system (RPM or deb packages, or whatever), there
should be dependencies clearly listed. When the admin installs your
code, he must also install the requisite modules that you list as
dependencies.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net



      


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Mon Feb 22 19:20:18 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:20:18 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <e72d6fb0-a331-496e-9571-472c5c5a07d9@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8j0j4vqa8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:48:55 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 21, 1:54 am, Tim Roberts <t... at probo.com> wrote:
>> DANNY <danijel.gv... at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >If I want to have a MPEG-4/10 coded video and stream it through the
>> >network and than have the same video on the client side, what should I
>> >use and of course I don't want to have raw MPEG data, because than I
>> >couldn't extract the frames to manipulate them.
>>
>> If you want to manipulate the frames (as bitmaps), then you have little
>> choice but to decode the MPEG as you receive it, manipulate the bitmaps,
>> and re-encode it back to MPEG.
>>
>> That's going to take a fair amount of time...
>> --
>> Tim Roberts, t... at probo.com
>> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>
> Yes, well beside bieng time-consuming, that is also inappropriate for
> me,
> because I want to have clip that would be streamed across the network
> and
> have the same GoP on the client side as the original-because I want to
> see
> what is the effect of errors on different GoP sizes. I would
> manipuleta the
> received clip just in the way that (if there are too many errors) I
> would
> stop displaying untill the next I frame.....I cant find a way to do
> that....is there a way?

Could you say a bit more about what you mean when you say "the effect of  
errors"?  It's easy enough to introduce bit errors into a data file (just  
flip random bits), but I'm not clear what it is you're trying to measure.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb 22 20:25:30 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:25:30 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>

So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with 
XP, and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary 
Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?

How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the  program 
in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.



From shawn at milochik.com  Mon Feb 22 20:54:28 2010
From: shawn at milochik.com (Shawn Milochik)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:54:28 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCBC981F-317D-473E-A403-C7FE624D407A@milochik.com>

When will Java be popular enough to replace other languages in their own environments, the way Python has done to Java (Jython) and .NET (IronPython)?

Shawn

From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 21:01:18 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 03:01:18 +0100
Subject: How to transmit a crash report ?
Message-ID: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>

hello,

in my python desktop applications,
I'ld like to implement a crash reporter.
By redirecting the sys.excepthook,
I can detect a crash and collect the necessary data.
Now I want that my users sends this information to me,
and I can't find a good way of doing this.

The following solutions came into my mind:
(most of my users are on Windows, and the programs are written in Python 
2.6)

1. mailto:
doesn't work if the the user didn't install a default email client,
or if the user uses a portable email client (that isn't started yet)
Besides this limits the messages to small amounts of data.

2.other mail options: smtp
AFAIK such a solution needs smtp authorization, and therefor I've to put 
my username and password in the desktop application.

3. http-post
Although post is also limited in size,
I could store information in cookies (don't know yet how), and cookies 
are sent parallel to the post message.
On the server site I can use a small php script, that stores the 
post-data, cookies and/or send's a (long) email.

are there better options ?

thanks,
Stef Mientki

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From gt67 at hw.ac.uk  Mon Feb 22 21:24:00 2010
From: gt67 at hw.ac.uk (Giorgos Tzampanakis)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:24:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
Message-ID: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>

I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a  
(dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for 
me. I want to use Python for that. Are there any libraries that 
can help me with the parsing of the assembly code?


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Feb 22 21:24:04 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:24:04 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>>>     Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
>>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
>>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
>>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
>>> carry through to the cache for the code.
>>     That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
>> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
>> Python is not.
> 
> Of course.  Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
> to call exec() or the equivalent.
> 
> It works fine if you use os.fork().

    Forking in multithreaded programs is iffy.  What happens depends
on the platform, and it's usually not what you wanted to happen.
Solaris before version 10 forks all threads, and both new processes
have all the threads running.  POSIX semantics are to fork only the
thread making the request.  The problem is that this leaves the other
Python threads in the new process with Python state, locks and reference
counts set, but no OS thread to run them.  See

"http://bugs.python.org/issue1683"
"http://bugs.python.org/issue874900"
"http://bugs.python.org/issue6721"
"http://bugs.python.org/issue7242"

There are at least two open bug reports in this area.

If you fork and "exec", which discards the state of Python in the child
process, there's less trouble. But if you're actually forking a
Python environment and running it, you're going to have at least a
memory leak, and probably further difficulties. 	

				John Nagle


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Feb 22 21:27:41 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:27:41 +0000
Subject: How to transmit a crash report ?
In-Reply-To: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>
References: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B833D1D.6080908@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> hello,
> 
> in my python desktop applications,
> I'ld like to implement a crash reporter.
> By redirecting the sys.excepthook,
> I can detect a crash and collect the necessary data.
> Now I want that my users sends this information to me,
> and I can't find a good way of doing this.
> 
> The following solutions came into my mind:
> (most of my users are on Windows, and the programs are written in Python 
> 2.6)
> 
> 1. mailto:
> doesn't work if the the user didn't install a default email client,
> or if the user uses a portable email client (that isn't started yet)
> Besides this limits the messages to small amounts of data.
> 
> 2.other mail options: smtp
> AFAIK such a solution needs smtp authorization, and therefor I've to put 
> my username and password in the desktop application.
> 
Try reading the documentation for Python's smtplib module.

You don't need to provide any password.

> 3. http-post
> Although post is also limited in size,
> I could store information in cookies (don't know yet how), and cookies 
> are sent parallel to the post message.
> On the server site I can use a small php script, that stores the 
> post-data, cookies and/or send's a (long) email.
> 
> are there better options ?
> 



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Mon Feb 22 21:33:40 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:33:40 -0800
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <7x635obrzv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Giorgos Tzampanakis <gt67 at hw.ac.uk> writes:
> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a  
> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for 
> me. I want to use Python for that. Are there any libraries that 
> can help me with the parsing of the assembly code?

One "dead simple" option is the re module.


From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 21:39:34 2010
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:39:34 -0500
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f1002221839v75fa29dbg7beef5ce46b2cb50@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the ?program in
> another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
Ask in an appropriate forum. I'm not sure where that is but you might
try http://www.sevenforums.com/


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 22:08:19 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:08:19 +1300
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio at 127.0.0.1>, Giorgos 
Tzampanakis wrote:

> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a
> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for
> me.

Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself as the assembler. 
Call routines in your library to output the code. That way you have a 
language more powerful than any assembler.

See <http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8> for an example.


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 22:10:03 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:10:03 +1300
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<8ca440b2-6094-4b35-80c5-81d000517ce0@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<hlg7rh$vam$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<87ee053d-ebe3-47b9-9da8-c1e5967cd22c@x1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D235F3AE3401duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<9c3931cf-8bfa-48dc-aa14-3b89bdad918c@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<Xns9D23A0C7DC15duncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<0e08238b-6c22-47c5-813a-1bc4185c132d@y7g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13616@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hlvgub$rmr$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message 
<3aa0205f-1e98-4376-92e4-607f96f13616 at k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, Michael 
Sparks wrote:

> [1] This is perhaps more appropriate because '(a b c) is equivalent
>     to (quote a b c), and quote a b c can be viewed as close to
>     python's expression "lambda: a b c"

You got to be kidding.


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Mon Feb 22 22:14:42 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:14:42 +1300
Subject: MySQLdb, blobs, and inserting
References: <85itgj$mlc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <85k0fd$hv2$1@news1.xs4all.nl>
	<387de600.0@news.cyberway.com.sg>
	<mailman.45.1266790507.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlvh72$rmr$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <mailman.45.1266790507.4577.python-list at python.org>, Dennis Lee 
Bieber wrote:

> Besides, the approved method of interacting with MySQLdb would use:
> 
> c.execute("insert into items (story) values (%s)",
> (file.read(), ) )
> 
> which lets the adapter properly escape any dangerous characters in the
> data, then wrap it with any needed quotes.

There are so many situations this cannot deal with...

<http://www.codecodex.com/wiki/Useful_MySQL_Routines>


From e_d_k at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 22 22:47:26 2010
From: e_d_k at yahoo.com (Ed Keith)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:47:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
In-Reply-To: <hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <166845.21850.qm@web58906.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> Subject: Re: Writing an assembler in Python
> Giorgos 
> Tzampanakis wrote:
> 
> > I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I
> want to have a
> > (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine
> code for
> > me.
> 
> Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself
> as the assembler. 
> Call routines in your library to output the code. That way
> you have a 
> language more powerful than any assembler.
> 
> See <http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8> for
> an example.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

Not a bad idea, has anyone tried this for x86 machine code?

   -EdK 

Ed Keith
e_d_k at yahoo.com

Blog: edkeith.blogspot.com






      


From rpjanaka at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 22:48:54 2010
From: rpjanaka at gmail.com (R. P. Janaka)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:18:54 +0530
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
Message-ID: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
platform independent way, using python...?

Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
Is this possible with python..?

-- 
Regards,
R. P. Janaka
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From wolftracks at invalid.com  Mon Feb 22 23:06:30 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:06:30 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.87.1266892777.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.87.1266892777.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hlvk8a$qt3$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/22/2010 6:39 PM, David Robinow wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the  program in
>> another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
> Ask in an appropriate forum. I'm not sure where that is but you might
> try http://www.sevenforums.com/
Not in my NG list.

If the way this is going is that it occurs on W7, not just in my case, 
then it will impact many Python users.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Mon Feb 22 23:32:22 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:32:22 +1300
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
Message-ID: <hlvlom$vfk$2@speranza.aioe.org>

David Boddie wrote:

> I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
> the PyQt Wiki:
> 
>   http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt
> 
> If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
> presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
> this problem.
> 
> David

Thanks David, that worked a treat.  :-)


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 23:35:15 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:35:15 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002222035y34c8b052qa352d1a7daf5db10@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
> In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
> functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
> latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
> languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
> functionally. The former group consisted mostly of people who had little
> or no programming experience, with a few exceptions (including me :-) ).
>
> So I have the feeling it has more to do with your background then how
> people think / are wired.
>

That's encouraging. If functional programming is really more natural
to those who are less familiar with math and programming, then perhaps
there is a future for it.

Unfortunately, I don't know that just knowing how to program
functionally is enough. Even the functional folks have a hard time
optimizing routines (time or memory). Even with DBAs, they have to
know how the functional SQL query is translated into discrete machine
instructions.

As it is now, the vast majority (all?) of the programmers who do any
programming seriously are familiar with the statement-based approach.
A minority understand let alone appreciate the functional approach.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Feb 22 23:36:55 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:36:55 -0800
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
> That will be superb
>

It already has.


-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From alfps at start.no  Mon Feb 22 23:50:14 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:50:14 +0100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* W. eWatson:
> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with 
> XP,

Well, Windows NT has always had *hardlinks*. <g>

I found it a bit baffling that that functionality is documented as not 
implemented for Windows in the Python standard library.

But OK, it was non-trivial to do prior to Windows 2000; you had to sort of hack 
it using the backup APIs since the functionality was not exposed through the 
ordinary file APIs.



> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary 
> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
> 
> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the  program 
> in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.

Copy and paste.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 00:05:28 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:05:28 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4B836218.1000600@invalid.com>

On 2/22/2010 8:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * W. eWatson:
>> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with
>> XP,
>
> Well, Windows NT has always had *hardlinks*. <g>
>
> I found it a bit baffling that that functionality is documented as not
> implemented for Windows in the Python standard library.
>
> But OK, it was non-trivial to do prior to Windows 2000; you had to sort
> of hack it using the backup APIs since the functionality was not exposed
> through the ordinary file APIs.
>
>
>
>> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary
>> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
>>
>> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the program
>> in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
>
> Copy and paste.
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf
I thought that's what I did. Is there some other way?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 00:06:32 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:06:32 -0800
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> writes:
> My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
> medium sized problems and it is worth learning.

I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better programmer
even if you never use it for anything beyond academic exercises.  It's
just like playing Bach fugues in some of your practice hours will make
you a better musician even if you are professionally a heavy metal rock
guitarist.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 00:09:51 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:09:51 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/22/2010 8:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
> * W. eWatson:
>> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with
>> XP,
>
> Well, Windows NT has always had *hardlinks*. <g>
>
> I found it a bit baffling that that functionality is documented as not
> implemented for Windows in the Python standard library.
>
> But OK, it was non-trivial to do prior to Windows 2000; you had to sort
> of hack it using the backup APIs since the functionality was not exposed
> through the ordinary file APIs.
>
>
>
>> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary
>> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
>>
>> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the program
>> in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
>
> Copy and paste.
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf
Alf? Hello,Norway. My wife is Norwegian and that was her father's name.

I thought that's what I did. Is there some other way?

Tusin Tak (That's about the size of my vocabulary and spelling ability! 
1000 thanks. What is the correct spelling?)


From timr at probo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:10:55 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:10:55 -0800
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <qmo6o5pu2e7j8kroju6j27fef9q0er059b@4ax.com>

DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Yes, well beside bieng time-consuming, that is also inappropriate 
>for me, because I want to have clip that would be streamed across
>the network and have the same GoP on the client side as the 
>original-because I want to see what is the effect of errors on 
>different GoP sizes. I would manipuleta the received clip just 
>in the way that (if there are too many errors) I would
>stop displaying untill the next I frame.....I cant find a way to do
>that....is there a way?

Sure.  You can do a partial decode yourself, scan for the start of frame
markers, pull the I/P/B state from that, and periodically "forget" to pass
the buffer through.  Your filter could have MPEG in and out.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:11:25 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:11:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 8:35?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
> > In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
> > functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
> > latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
> > languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
> > functionally. The former group consisted mostly of people who had little
> > or no programming experience, with a few exceptions (including me :-) ).
>
> > So I have the feeling it has more to do with your background then how
> > people think / are wired.
>
> That's encouraging. If functional programming is really more natural
> to those who are less familiar with math and programming, then perhaps
> there is a future for it.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't know that just knowing how to program
> functionally is enough. Even the functional folks have a hard time
> optimizing routines (time or memory). Even with DBAs, they have to
> know how the functional SQL query is translated into discrete machine
> instructions.
>
> As it is now, the vast majority (all?) of the programmers who do any
> programming seriously are familiar with the statement-based approach.
> A minority understand let alone appreciate the functional approach.
>

Hi Jonathon.  I understand three major programming paradigms--
imperative, OO, and functional.  My first instinct is always
imperative, as I just want the computer to *do* stuff.

I am not an expert in any paradigm and it is possible that I am
overlooking other major paradigms.

My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
medium sized problems and it is worth learning.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 00:15:01 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:15:01 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between (Verify) Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlvo8r$n6s$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Maybe someone could verify my result?

open file
read file line
print line
close file

data 1234

Execute it in a folder

Create another folder and copy the program to it.
put in a new data file as

data 4567

Execute the copied program
Does it give
data1234?



From showell30 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:17:36 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:17:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <84a4a03f-22dd-4f05-b754-f1e55f6fdfa6@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:11?pm, Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 22, 8:35?pm, Jonathan Gardner <jgard... at jonathangardner.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:31 PM, John Bokma <j... at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
> > > In my class there where basically 2 groups of people: the ones who got
> > > functional programming and the ones who had a hard time with it. The
> > > latter group consisted mostly of people who had been programming in
> > > languages like C and Pascal for years; they had a hard time thinking
> > > functionally. The former group consisted mostly of people who had little
> > > or no programming experience, with a few exceptions (including me :-) ).
>
> > > So I have the feeling it has more to do with your background then how
> > > people think / are wired.
>
> > That's encouraging. If functional programming is really more natural
> > to those who are less familiar with math and programming, then perhaps
> > there is a future for it.
>
> > Unfortunately, I don't know that just knowing how to program
> > functionally is enough. Even the functional folks have a hard time
> > optimizing routines (time or memory). Even with DBAs, they have to
> > know how the functional SQL query is translated into discrete machine
> > instructions.
>
> > As it is now, the vast majority (all?) of the programmers who do any
> > programming seriously are familiar with the statement-based approach.
> > A minority understand let alone appreciate the functional approach.
>
> Hi Jonathon. ?I understand three major programming paradigms--
> imperative, OO, and functional. ?My first instinct is always
> imperative, as I just want the computer to *do* stuff.
>
> I am not an expert in any paradigm and it is possible that I am
> overlooking other major paradigms.
>
> My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
> medium sized problems and it is worth learning.

Sorry for misspelling your name, and yes I agree that you always want
some notion of what happens under the covers (in any paradigm).


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:27:04 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:27:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <05059b42-105b-4822-8448-d30add1dba15@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:06?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Steve Howell <showel... at yahoo.com> writes:
> > My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
> > medium sized problems and it is worth learning.
>
> I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better programmer
> even if you never use it for anything beyond academic exercises. ?It's
> just like playing Bach fugues in some of your practice hours will make
> you a better musician even if you are professionally a heavy metal rock
> guitarist.

Well said, and your analogy is based in fact--some pretty awesome rock
guitarists have training in classical and jazz.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb 23 00:45:24 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:45:24 -0800
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Jonathan Gardner
<jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
>> That will be superb
>>
> It already has.

Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

Although for Java-level mainstreamness, you'd probably need to be in
the top 3 or 4.

Cheers,
Chris
--
The TIOBE Index is by no means perfect though.
http://blog.rebertia.com


From showell30 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:54:09 2010
From: showell30 at yahoo.com (Steve Howell)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:54:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.92.1266903927.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <96c61ffb-108e-40af-9b45-7ac9b7289cb5@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:45?pm, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Jonathan Gardner
>
> <jgard... at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM, AON LAZIO <aonla... at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> That will be superb
>
> > It already has.
>
> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> Although for Java-level mainstreamness, you'd probably need to be in
> the top 3 or 4.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> The TIOBE Index is by no means perfect though.http://blog.rebertia.com

I am sure Python could rise to number six with some squigglies! ;)


From timr at probo.com  Tue Feb 23 00:57:22 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:57:22 -0800
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
	<7x635obrzv.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <69r6o5948eut0hjjduahf2srl892pnisot@4ax.com>

Paul Rubin <no.email at nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>Giorgos Tzampanakis <gt67 at hw.ac.uk> writes:
>> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a  
>> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for 
>> me. I want to use Python for that. Are there any libraries that 
>> can help me with the parsing of the assembly code?
>
>One "dead simple" option is the re module.

Yes, indeed.  I have implemented TWO different FPGA-based microassemblers
in Python using the essentially undocumented but magically delicious
re.Scanner class.  Simple and flexible.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 23 01:00:48 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:00:48 +0100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hlvquh$au1$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* W. eWatson:
> On 2/22/2010 8:50 PM, Alf P. Steinbach wrote:
>> * W. eWatson:
>>> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with
>>> XP,
>>
>> Well, Windows NT has always had *hardlinks*. <g>
>>
>> I found it a bit baffling that that functionality is documented as not
>> implemented for Windows in the Python standard library.
>>
>> But OK, it was non-trivial to do prior to Windows 2000; you had to sort
>> of hack it using the backup APIs since the functionality was not exposed
>> through the ordinary file APIs.
>>
>>
>>
>>> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary
>>> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
>>>
>>> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the program
>>> in another folder, and not link to an ancestor.
>>
>> Copy and paste.
>>
>>
>> Cheers & hth.,
>>
>> - Alf
> Alf? Hello,Norway. My wife is Norwegian and that was her father's name.
> 
> I thought that's what I did. Is there some other way?

(A)
For using Explorer, see

   <url: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Copy-and-paste-a-file>

and in particular look at the tips at the bottom.

(B)
To get absolute control you can use the command interpreter. I don't have 
Windows7 but googling yielded the following URL:

   <url: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/947-command-prompt.html>

The "copy" command there copies files.


> Tusin Tak (That's about the size of my vocabulary and spelling ability! 
> 1000 thanks. What is the correct spelling?)

That's "tusen takk".


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From alfps at start.no  Tue Feb 23 01:03:00 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:03:00 +0100
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
In-Reply-To: <7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz>	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org>	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org>	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org>	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hlvr2l$au1$2@news.eternal-september.org>

* Paul Rubin:
> Steve Howell <showell30 at yahoo.com> writes:
>> My gut instinct is that functional programming works well for lots of
>> medium sized problems and it is worth learning.
> 
> I think it's worth learning because it will make you a better programmer
> even if you never use it for anything beyond academic exercises.  It's
> just like playing Bach fugues in some of your practice hours will make
> you a better musician even if you are professionally a heavy metal rock
> guitarist.

Uhm, Paganini...

As I understand it he invented the "destroy your instruments on stage". :-)


Cheers,

- Alf (off-topic)


From jgorauskas at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 01:06:45 2010
From: jgorauskas at gmail.com (gorauskas)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:06:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I installed it on a Windows 7 machine with CPython 2.6.4 and I get the
following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dreampie.py", line 3, in <module>
  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 73, in <module>
  File "dreampielib\gui\load_pygtk.pyc", line 49, in load_pygtk
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,  JGG


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Tue Feb 23 01:10:58 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:10:58 +1100
Subject: ANN: esky v0.4.0   [was Re: Upgrading Py2exe App]
In-Reply-To: <1266615136.2495.39.camel@rambutan>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<20ae4031-bfb2-40ca-b79c-3b9baf44d59c@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<1266615136.2495.39.camel@rambutan>
Message-ID: <1266905458.3153.16.camel@durian>


Hi All,


  As promised I have made a new release of esky, my auto-update
framework for frozen python apps.  Details below for those who are
interested.

  Cheers,

     Ryan


-------------------------------


  esky:  keep frozen apps fresh

Esky is an auto-update framework for frozen Python applications.  It
provides a simple API through which apps can find, fetch and install
updates, and a bootstrapping mechanism that keeps the app safe in the
face of failed or partial updates.

Esky is currently capable of freezing apps with bbfreeze, cxfreeze and
py2exe.  Support for py2app is in the works.

The latest version is v0.4.0, with the following major changes:

   * added support for freezing with cx_Freeze.
   * improved support for freezing with py2exe.
   * added ability to set the icon on each executable
     (if the chosen freezer module supports it)
   * made Esky.cleanup() catch and ignore common errors.
   * added support for Python 3 (via distribute's "use_2to3" flag)
   * added a brief tutorial and example application
   * some backwards-incompatible API changes (see ChangeLog for details)


Downloads:  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/esky/0.4.0/

Code, bugs, etc:  http://github.com/rfk/esky/

Tutorial:  http://github.com/rfk/esky/tree/master/tutorial/


-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From rpjanaka at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 01:12:27 2010
From: rpjanaka at gmail.com (R. P. Janaka)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:42:27 +0530
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
In-Reply-To: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>

Please can anyone help me..??

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:18 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
> platform independent way, using python...?
>
> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
> Is this possible with python..?
>
> --
> Regards,
> R. P. Janaka
>



-- 
Regards,
R. P. Janaka
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From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 01:27:54 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <ff3e4cb5-2855-48e1-b3f3-726ff263852a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:24?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >>>> ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> >>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> >>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
> >>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> >>> carry through to the cache for the code.
> >> ? ? That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module. ?The
> >> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
> >> Python is not.
>
> > Of course. ?Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
> > to call exec() or the equivalent.
>
> > It works fine if you use os.fork().
>
> ? ? Forking in multithreaded programs is iffy. ?What happens depends
> on the platform, and it's usually not what you wanted to happen.

Well, yeah.  And threading in multiprocess apps is iffy.  In the real
world, though, multiprocessing is much more likely to result in a
decent app than multithreading--and if you're not skilled at either,
starting with multiprocessing is by far the smarter way to begin.

Basically, multiprocessing is always hard--but it's less hard to start
without shared everything.  Going with the special case (sharing
everything, aka threading) is by far the stupider and more complex way
to approach multiprocssing.

And really, for real-world apps, it's much, much more likely that
fork() will be sufficient than that you'll need to explore the
vagueries of a multithreaded solution.  Protected memory rocks, and in
real life it's probably 95% of the time where threads are only even
considered if the OS can't fork() and otherwise use processes well.


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 01:31:12 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:31:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <51de1750-d978-4f2f-8f72-1badf9b5acca@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:24?pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> >>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
> >>>> ? ? Multiple processes are not the answer. ?That means loading multiple
> >>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory. ?The cache
> >>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
> >>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
> >>> carry through to the cache for the code.
> >> ? ? That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module. ?The
> >> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
> >> Python is not.
>
> > Of course. ?Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
> > to call exec() or the equivalent.
>
> > It works fine if you use os.fork().
>
> ? ? Forking in multithreaded programs is iffy.

One more thing: the above statement ("forking in multithreaded
programs is iffy"), is absolutely true, but it's also completely
meaningless in modern multiprocessing programs--it's like saying
"gotos in structured programs are iffy".  That's true, but it also has
almost no bearing on decently constructed modern programs.


From FearsomeDragonfly at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 01:58:38 2010
From: FearsomeDragonfly at gmail.com (Brad Harms)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:58:38 GMT
Subject: Can I make sqlite3 or shelve work reliably on any Win/Linux/Mac?
References: <mailman.67.1266858646.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y0Lgn.10452$Ab2.4339@newsfe23.iad>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 09:10:38 -0800, Alex Quinn wrote:

> Is there a way to have some kind of database (i.e. sqlite3, bsddb, dbm,
> etc.) that works out of the box on any Win/Linux/Mac machine with Python
> 2.6+ or 3.x? It's okay if the file format is different between machines,
> but I want my script to work without having to install anything.
> 
> Problems with current modules:
> 
> * Shelve used to do this.  Unfortunately, since bsddb was
> deprecated/removed from the standard distro and Windows doesn't have dbm
> or gdbm, the only remaining option on Windows is dumbdbm, which is
> discouraged in the docs.
> 
> * Sqlite3 should fill the void now.  However, in my experience, nearly
> every Linux Python install I encounter has a broken sqlite3 module
> ("ImportError: No module named _sqlite3"). It's a well-documented issue,
> but it the solution generally requires root access, which I don't have
> on these servers.
> 
> Potential solutions:
> 
> * Could I somehow bundle with my project the _sqlite3.so file and/or
> whatever else it needs? Or is there an alternate sqlite3 module I could
> use as a fallback that would just interface with the sqlite3 executable
> on the machine (i.e. /usr/local/bin/sqlite3)?
> 
> * Is there a way to drop bsddb into my project so it works out of the
> gate (no install) on either Linux, Windows, or Mac?
> 
> If you have any ideas, I'd be most appreciative.  My objective here is
> just to find a portable and reliable solution that I can use for small
> projects.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex

Hi,

I'm speaking with little experience here, but one thought I had is to try 
compiling Pysqlite ( http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pysqlite/2.5.6 ) for 
each of your target OS's, probably using GCC cross compilers for the 
platforms you aren't compiling on, then sort of "splice" them together so 
that _sqlite3 always points to the binary for the current OS.

This snippet might help you get started:

import sys

# Linux binary
if 'linux' in sys.platform.lower():
	import _sqlite3_linux as _sqlite3

# Windows binary
elif 'win32' == sys.platform:
	import _sqlite3_windows as _sqlite3

# Mac binary
elif 'darwin' == sys.platform:
	import _sqlite3_mac as _sqlite3

sys.modules['_sqlite3'] = _sqlite3


I'm not exactly sure when you would run this code. It would have to be 
sometime before you import the main sqlite3 module.

-- 
Brad Harms -- http://alphaios.net


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb 23 02:03:55 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:03:55 -0800
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
In-Reply-To: <de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
	<de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002222303td62ea73n4f957dd6de7d0ecd@mail.gmail.com>

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:18 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
>> platform independent way, using python...?
>>
>> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
>> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
>> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
>> Is this possible with python..?

Given Turing-completeness, one should more precisely ask whether there
is already a library for doing something in Python rather than whether
something is possible with Python.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:12 PM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:
> Please can anyone help me..??

It is generally customary to wait /at least/ one day before pinging on
one's question again.

If you were to have searched PyPI (http://pypi.python.org), you would
have found psutil, which seems to fit your bill:
http://code.google.com/p/psutil/

Cheers,
Chris
--
This completes today's Netiquette lesson.
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 02:08:30 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 07:08:30 GMT
Subject: Use eval() safely?
References: <20100221212511.GA23046@beron.tangosoft.com>
	<mailman.77.1266867912.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.23.07.08.29@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:45:10 -0800, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

> Why would you ever run untrusted code on any machine in any language,
> let alone Python?

Because sometimes you have to run untrusted code, so you want to run it 
in a sandbox so it can't eat your machine.

E.g. viewing PDF files.

Or you might be building an app that allows the user to enter code and 
execute it:

http://tryruby.org/



> If you're writing a web app, make it so that you only run trusted code.
> That is, code installed by the admin, or approved by the admin.

But do you trust the admin? Do you think your admin has audited the 
entire tool chain of every application, library and operating system 
module in your system?



-- 
Steven


From jedady.1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 02:12:28 2010
From: jedady.1 at gmail.com (Jedady)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:12:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Now Win a laptop computer from (EZ laptop) free of charge
Message-ID: <7f1d8648-fcd0-4e26-a4ae-790e5e660e7f@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

All you have to do is just click on the link below and register on-
site.And you'll know the rest of the steps on your
own

http://ezlaptop.com/?r=130329

Good luck to all


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Tue Feb 23 02:16:46 2010
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:16:46 +0000
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
	<de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.95.1266908638.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87tyt81kwx.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:

>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:18 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
>>> platform independent way, using python...?
>>>
>>> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
>>> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
>>> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
>>> Is this possible with python..?
>
> Given Turing-completeness, one should more precisely ask whether there
> is already a library for doing something in Python rather than whether
> something is possible with Python.

Turing-completeness is irrelevant to questions like getting memory and
CPU info for a process. These are not issues of computability...


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb 23 02:28:01 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:28:01 -0800
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
In-Reply-To: <87tyt81kwx.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
	<de1942f1002222212i27cda3f0o947420d56c5d2a08@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.95.1266908638.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87tyt81kwx.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002222328l2a8b79e4wcdc027eaeffc883b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris Rebert <clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:18 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
>>>> platform independent way, using python...?
>>>>
>>>> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
>>>> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
>>>> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
>>>> Is this possible with python..?
>>
>> Given Turing-completeness, one should more precisely ask whether there
>> is already a library for doing something in Python rather than whether
>> something is possible with Python.
>
> Turing-completeness is irrelevant to questions like getting memory and
> CPU info for a process. These are not issues of computability...

True, but given that it is possible to access most *nix APIs from
Python and win32all provides what I understand to be extensive access
to the Win32 API from Python, cross-platform coding is almost always
possible in Python. You might have to manually deal with each case
yourself though. (More technically, I suppose that's being
multi-platform with relatively easy DIY cross-platform).

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From taskinoor.hasan at csebuet.org  Tue Feb 23 02:30:00 2010
From: taskinoor.hasan at csebuet.org (Taskinoor Hasan)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:30:00 +0600
Subject: How to get memory and CPU status of a particular process
In-Reply-To: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
References: <de1942f1002221948y6d64cbc2q60c32a3185b63610@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79153a2e1002222330s2eeee7c3h8ee9b94126c525e3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:48 AM, R. P. Janaka <rpjanaka at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there a way to get system memory consumption and CPU consumption in a
> platform independent way, using python...?
>
> Basically my requirement is, get the memory status and CPU status of a
> particular process. If there is a way to get memory info and CPU info by
> just giving the process ID, that is exactly what I need to do :)
> Is this possible with python..?
>

I'm afraid that this is not possible in a platform independent way. In case
of Windows, you can look at Tim Golden's WMI module for Python. And in case
of Linux, you need to dig the details of /proc.

Regards
Taskinoor Hasan (Sajid)

>
> --
> Regards,
> R. P. Janaka
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From krister.svanlund at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 03:07:43 2010
From: krister.svanlund at gmail.com (Krister Svanlund)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:07:43 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>
Message-ID: <2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falk <falk at mauve.rahul.net> wrote:
> You mean it's not?
>
> --
> ? ? ? ?-Ed Falk, falk at despams.r.us.com
> ? ? ? ?http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something
new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just
does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as
popular.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 03:11:52 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 08:11:52 GMT
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:01:44 +0000, Albert van der Horst wrote:

> In article <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Terrence Cole  <terrence at zettabytestorage.com> wrote:
>>Can someone explain to me what python is doing here?
>>
>>Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb  3 2010, 13:36:47) [GCC 4.3.4] on linux2
>>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>>> -0.1 ** 0.1
> 
> Python 4.0
> Warning: misleading blank space, expected:
>   - 0.1**0.1
> 
>>-0.7943282347242815


Making spaces significant in that fashion is mind-bogglingly awful. Let's 
look at a language that does this:

[steve at sylar ~]$ cat ws-example.rb
def a(x=4)
    x+2
end

b = 1
print (a + b), (a+b), (a+ b), (a +b), "\n"


[steve at sylar ~]$ ruby ws-example.rb
7773




-- 
Steven


From bobbo17141 at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 03:37:13 2010
From: bobbo17141 at googlemail.com (gabi meier)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:37:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?wgv_berufsunf=E4higkeitsversicherung=2C_berufsunf=E4higk?=
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	=?ISO-8859-1?Q?ufsunf=E4higkeitsversicherung=2C?=
Message-ID: <aa1d7761-357c-4d51-935f-cfa2a08bb89c@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

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From ishwor.gurung at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 04:00:47 2010
From: ishwor.gurung at gmail.com (Ishwor Gurung)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:00:47 +1100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34534aed1002230100v7e06f714oca05933851d2b02c@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 February 2010 08:56, AON LAZIO <aonlazio at gmail.com> wrote:
> That will be superb
Yes it would - but I'll just add in few words.

Java - Monstrous language that was Sun's flagship language. Now, it's Oracles.
Python - Hobby-ish hacking language that we all love so much (that we
wish everything was written using Python).

Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM

I like both Python and Java but given the amount of resources put into
JVM and Java (JEE is _huge_ in Enterprise if you didn't know that
already and there are universities that speak Java fluently), it's
kind of sad that Python till the day hasn't seen speedup in mainline
releases.

I see Python more as a hacker's language which will gradually evolve
and support SMEs and alike in the long run than Java (and of course we
write our weekend-only hacking projects in it :-) but for a
market-uptake like Java requires universities, colleges and students
to learn this wonderful little language and requests energetic hackers
to fix lock-contention issues and the like in the core implementation.

Perhaps I see a light, perhaps I see nothing.. but I feel the day is
coming nearer when Python would run as fast as Java/C. Only time can
tell - I hope the time is right about this.
--
Regards
Ishwor Gurung
Key id:0xa98db35e
Key fingerprint:FBEF 0D69 6DE1 C72B A5A8  35FE 5A9B F3BB 4E5E 17B5


From processor.dev1l at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 04:24:46 2010
From: processor.dev1l at gmail.com (Processor-Dev1l)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:24:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e27c8b0d-f8c8-4115-bfa6-9d91fcc61c1a@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 10:42?am, Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamr... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce DreamPie 1.0 - a new graphical interactive
> Python shell!
>
> Some highlights:
>
> * Has whatever you would expect from a graphical Python shell -
> attribute completion, tooltips which show how to call functions,
> highlighting of matching parentheses, etc.
> * Fixes a lot of IDLE nuisances - in DreamPie interrupt always works,
> history recall and completion works as expected, etc.
> * Results are saved in the Result History.
Very good work, Noam,
I am looking forward to test this with IronPython :)

> * Long output is automatically folded so you can focus on what's
> important.
> * Jython and IronPython support makes DreamPie a great tool for
> exploring Java and .NET classes.
> * You can copy any amount of code and immediately execute it, and you
> can also copy code you typed interactively into a new file, with the
> Copy Code Only command. No tabs are used!
> * Free software licensed under GPL version 3.
>
> Check it out athttp://dreampie.sourceforge.net/and tell me what you
> think!
>
> Have fun,
> Noam



From sebastian.noack at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 04:24:48 2010
From: sebastian.noack at googlemail.com (sebastian.noack at googlemail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:24:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
References: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka> <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka> 
	<mailman.2844.1266693245.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <256926de-e175-4fa2-aa24-dbd5f96756ef@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 8:13?pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
> Here's a thought: ?Consider the subprocess module. ? It can do thefork
> and any necessary pipes and can do so in an OS independent way. ? It
> might make you life much easier.

As far as i know the subprocess module provides only functionality for
running any program as subprocess. But I just want to fork the current
process without putting some code in an external python script.

Sebastian Noack


From richard.lamboj at bilcom.at  Tue Feb 23 04:40:09 2010
From: richard.lamboj at bilcom.at (Richard Lamboj)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:40:09 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>
	<2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002231040.10422.richard.lamboj@bilcom.at>


Am Tuesday 23 February 2010 09:07:43 schrieb Krister Svanlund:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falk <falk at mauve.rahul.net> 
wrote:
> > You mean it's not?
> >
> > --
> > ? ? ? ?-Ed Falk, falk at despams.r.us.com
> > ? ? ? ?http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
>
> Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something
> new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just
> does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as
> popular.

Good morning,

i don't like Java/JSP, the synthax is blown up and the programs are damn slow. 
For ecllipse you should buy a cluster. There is C/C++/D, Python, Ruby, 
Gambas, TCL, PHP, SmallTalk and some other nice Programming Languages, so i 
don't understand why people use Java. "Java is the one an only OOP Language, 
the best one" - Yeah and whats with multiple inheritance? I'am in love with 
Python ;-)

Kind Regards


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 05:39:21 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:39:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<qmo6o5pu2e7j8kroju6j27fef9q0er059b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <19c11c1f-d70e-4b10-b425-6e65d4c70aeb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

@James I am thinkinhg about effect of errors that are within the
sequence of P frames. Where the P frames have only the information
about the changes in previous frames, so that errors are present until
the next I frame. So I would like to see how is this seen in different
GoP sized clips.

@Tim Thanks for the advice, now I will try to do that so I have a lot
of work in front of me. I will post any problems if they occure.

Guys thank you again for the help!


From hackingkk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 05:53:57 2010
From: hackingkk at gmail.com (hackingKK)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:23:57 +0530
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <201002231040.10422.richard.lamboj@bilcom.at>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>	<2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002231040.10422.richard.lamboj@bilcom.at>
Message-ID: <4B83B3C5.5020502@gmail.com>

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 03:10 PM, Richard Lamboj wrote:
> Am Tuesday 23 February 2010 09:07:43 schrieb Krister Svanlund:
>    
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Edward A. Falk<falk at mauve.rahul.net>
>>      
> wrote:
>    
>>> You mean it's not?
>>>
>>> --
>>>         -Ed Falk, falk at despams.r.us.com
>>>         http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
>>>        
>> Javas popularity was very much a product of its time. It was something
>> new and exciting and people got a bit too excited maybe, Python just
>> does the same thing but better really, therefor it will not become as
>> popular.
>>      
> Good morning,
>
> i don't like Java/JSP, the synthax is blown up and the programs are damn slow.
> For ecllipse you should buy a cluster. There is C/C++/D, Python, Ruby,
> Gambas, TCL, PHP, SmallTalk and some other nice Programming Languages, so i
> don't understand why people use Java. "Java is the one an only OOP Language,
> the best one" - Yeah and whats with multiple inheritance? I'am in love with
> Python ;-)
>    

There are a few reasons why we don't see python as a "buz word".  Java 
was well marketed and the time when it came out with libraries like 
swing, there was no popularly known alternative.
As a matter of fact I don't really go by popularity with technologies, 
specially when it comes to programming languages.
Just show me 2 or 3 big apps or web sites which are scalable and take 
multiple requests.  show me just 2 instances where heavy number 
crunching is done efficiently and I am convinced.
I don't care how many apps are developed using java as long as they 
remain heavy and sloooooooow.
google runs on python and so do many other big applications.
marketing is more about exaggeration, which Sun did for Java.
Python was always in the hands of programmers who wanted their work done 
and wanted scalable apps.
So the conclusion is that "all that is popular need not be good for 
every thing ".

Happy hacking.
Krishnakant.


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 05:54:25 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
Message-ID: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

*Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*

Fascism is coming fastly to Internet because is the only communication
way that governements (managed by the bank and multinationals) cann't
control

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/21/acta-internet-enforc.html


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Feb 23 05:56:39 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:56:39 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>

Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?

Stefan



From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb 23 06:33:40 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:33:40 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100223063340.c891740a.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*

Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
posts to this list?

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From generalcody at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 06:50:15 2010
From: generalcody at gmail.com (General Cody)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:50:15 +0100
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
References: <Xns9C766EED8F526pinkisntwellgmailcom@147.102.222.230>
Message-ID: <2010022312501516807-generalcody@gmailcom>

Well... This is really a RTFM question.
It's all in the Python docs...

And it's really simple.



From aharrisreid at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 06:56:21 2010
From: aharrisreid at googlemail.com (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:56:21 +0000
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B83C265.2090802@googlemail.com>

gorauskas wrote:
> I installed it on a Windows 7 machine with CPython 2.6.4 and I get the
> following error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "dreampie.py", line 3, in <module>
>   File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 73, in <module>
>   File "dreampielib\gui\load_pygtk.pyc", line 49, in load_pygtk
> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Thanks,  JGG
And I installed it on WinXP sp3 and Python 3.1 - when launched a window 
flashes before my eyes, then disappears!  Has the installation package 
been checked for all common Windows versions?

Regards,
Alan


From noamraph at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 07:11:07 2010
From: noamraph at gmail.com (Noam Yorav-Raphael)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:11:07 +0200
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b348a0851002230411s6562c338i2e8529ca6b74e4a2@mail.gmail.com>

?Thanks! I'm happy you like it!
Thanks for the feedback too. Here are my replies.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Chris Colbert <sccolbert at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is bloody fantastic! I must say, this fixes everything I hate about
> Ipython and gives me the feature I wished it had (with a few minor
> exceptions).
> I confirm this working on Kubuntu 9.10 using the ppa listed on the sites
> download page.
Great. It's important to know.

> I also confirm that it works interactively with PyQt4 and PyGtk (as to be
> expected since these toolkits use the PyOS_inputhook for the mainloop).
> However, it does not work interactively with wx (again, this is as expected
> since wx doesn't use the PyOS_inputhook). In short, the gui toolkit support
> is the same as in Ipython if you dont use any of the magic threading
> switches, which are now?deprecated?anyway.
Actually, currently DreamPie doesn't use PyOS_inputhook, but
implements the GUI hooks by itself. So it should be possible to
implement wx support if there's a way to handle events for a few
milliseconds. I tried it a bit and didn't find how to do it - if you
are interested in wx support and think you can help, please do.

> Matplotlib does not work interactively for me. Is there a special switch
> that needs to be used? or should a pick a non-wx backend? (i'm thinking the
> latter is more likely)
You should set "interactive:True" in your matplotlibrc file. The next
DreamPie version will warn about this.

> A couple of things I would like to see (and will help implement if I can
> find the time):
> 1) A shortcut to show the docstring of an object. Something like Ipython's
> `?`. i.e. ?`object.foo?` translates to `help(object.foo)`
I wrote this at http://wiki.python.org/moin/DreamPieFeatureRequests .
I hope I will manage to implement this soon.

> 2) How do I change the color of the blinking cursor at the bottom? I can't
> see the damn thing!
It should be in the color of the default text. If this is not the
case, please file a bug!

> 3) line numbers instead of the `>>>` prompt
I know IPython does this, but I thought you needed it only if placing
the cursor on top of the command doesn't do anything. Can you tell me
why do you need this in the context of a graphical user interface?

> 4) a plugin facility where we can define our own `magic` commands. I use
> Ipython's %timeit ALL the time.
Added it to the feature request page.

> 5) Double-click to re-fold the output section as well.
I don't think that's a good idea, because usually double-click selects
the word, and I don't want to change that behavior for regular text.
You can use ctrl-minus to fold the last output section!

> Thanks for making this!!!!
Thanks for the feedback!

Noam


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Tue Feb 23 07:48:51 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:48:51 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E235F7A6-6BE2-475C-865C-D36038580632@roalddevries.nl>

On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO wrote:
> That will be superb

I guess static typing will have to be added, so that tools like  
eclipse can inspect (and autocomplete) your programs [better].





From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Feb 23 07:50:15 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:50:15 +0100
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
In-Reply-To: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B83CF07.5000009@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test 
> into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.someclass
>
>     def test_spam(self):
>         """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
>         self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.function
>
>     def test_foo(self):
>         self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
>
> The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not 
> a standalone function, and I get errors like:
>
> TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
>
> The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this 
> class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I 
> don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the 
> function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather 
> than just one.
>
> Are there any better solutions?
>
>
>   

It looks like it works when declaring foo as static:

import unittest

def foo(a,b):
    return 'fooo'

class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
    target = staticmethod(foo)

    def test_foo(self):
        self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
   
    def runTest(self):
        self.test_foo()

AnotherTest().runTest()
...AssertionError: 'fooo' != 'foo'

JM


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 08:03:26 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:03:26 -0800
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
Message-ID: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>

In the last day, I posted a message titled "What's Going on between 
Python and win7?" I'd appreciate it if someone could verify my claim. A 
sample program to do this is below. I'm using IDLE in Win7 with Py 2.5.

My claim is that if one creates a program in a folder that reads a file 
in the folder it and then copies it to another folder, it will read  the 
data file in the first folder, and not a changed file in the new folder. 
I'd appreciate it if some w7 users could try this, and let me know what 
they find.

My experience is that if one checks the properties of the copied file, 
it will point to the original py file and execute it and not the copy.


# Test program. Examine strange link in Python under Win7
# when copying py file to another folder.
# Call the program vefifywin7.py
# To verify my situation use IDLE, save and run this program there.
# Put this program into a folder along with a data file
# called verify.txt. Create a single text line with a few characters in it
# Run this program and note if the output
# Copy the program and txt file to another folder
# Change the contents of the txt file
# Run it again, and see if the output is the same as in the other folder
track_file = open("verify.txt")
aline = track_file.readline();
print aline
track_file.close()


From olof.bjarnason at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 08:25:07 2010
From: olof.bjarnason at gmail.com (Olof Bjarnason)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:25:07 +0100
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <b348a0851002230411s6562c338i2e8529ca6b74e4a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7f014ea61002210913p237adec3le0618bc899bd3f9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b348a0851002230411s6562c338i2e8529ca6b74e4a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3dfe1d1002230525h53155a49mb8600a07f23222df@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/23 Noam Yorav-Raphael <noamraph at gmail.com>:
> ?Thanks! I'm happy you like it!
> Thanks for the feedback too. Here are my replies.
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 7:13 PM, Chris Colbert <sccolbert at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is bloody fantastic! I must say, this fixes everything I hate about
>> Ipython and gives me the feature I wished it had (with a few minor
>> exceptions).
>> I confirm this working on Kubuntu 9.10 using the ppa listed on the sites
>> download page.
> Great. It's important to know.
>
>> I also confirm that it works interactively with PyQt4 and PyGtk (as to be
>> expected since these toolkits use the PyOS_inputhook for the mainloop).
>> However, it does not work interactively with wx (again, this is as expected
>> since wx doesn't use the PyOS_inputhook). In short, the gui toolkit support
>> is the same as in Ipython if you dont use any of the magic threading
>> switches, which are now?deprecated?anyway.
> Actually, currently DreamPie doesn't use PyOS_inputhook, but
> implements the GUI hooks by itself. So it should be possible to
> implement wx support if there's a way to handle events for a few
> milliseconds. I tried it a bit and didn't find how to do it - if you
> are interested in wx support and think you can help, please do.
>
>> Matplotlib does not work interactively for me. Is there a special switch
>> that needs to be used? or should a pick a non-wx backend? (i'm thinking the
>> latter is more likely)
> You should set "interactive:True" in your matplotlibrc file. The next
> DreamPie version will warn about this.
>
>> A couple of things I would like to see (and will help implement if I can
>> find the time):
>> 1) A shortcut to show the docstring of an object. Something like Ipython's
>> `?`. i.e. ?`object.foo?` translates to `help(object.foo)`
> I wrote this at http://wiki.python.org/moin/DreamPieFeatureRequests .
> I hope I will manage to implement this soon.
>
>> 2) How do I change the color of the blinking cursor at the bottom? I can't
>> see the damn thing!
> It should be in the color of the default text. If this is not the
> case, please file a bug!
>
>> 3) line numbers instead of the `>>>` prompt
> I know IPython does this, but I thought you needed it only if placing
> the cursor on top of the command doesn't do anything. Can you tell me
> why do you need this in the context of a graphical user interface?
>
>> 4) a plugin facility where we can define our own `magic` commands. I use
>> Ipython's %timeit ALL the time.
> Added it to the feature request page.
>
>> 5) Double-click to re-fold the output section as well.
> I don't think that's a good idea, because usually double-click selects
> the word, and I don't want to change that behavior for regular text.
> You can use ctrl-minus to fold the last output section!
>
>> Thanks for making this!!!!
> Thanks for the feedback!

I installed latest .exe from LP on my Win7/32-bit machine, nothing
happens when I start DreamPie. Is there a bug report file somewhere I
could send you Noam?

(Python2.6.4 installed on my machine)

>
> Noam
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
http://olofb.wordpress.com


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb 23 08:46:30 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:46:30 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.101.1266922453.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<hlv5sq$j12$3@blue.rahul.net>	<2cf430a61002230007j120ee439pb99c9b6bd6123b5@mail.gmail.com>	<201002231040.10422.richard.lamboj@bilcom.at>
	<mailman.101.1266922453.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b83dc2f$0$10229$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

hackingKK a ?crit :
(snip)
> I don't care how many apps are developed using java as long as they 
> remain heavy and sloooooooow.
> google runs on python

Please get your facts right.

Python is one of the languages used internally at Google, true, but so 
is Java.

And google-the-search-engine does not "run on python".



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Feb 23 08:47:11 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:47:11 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.106.1266929343.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.106.1266929343.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b83dc57$0$10229$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Roald de Vries a ?crit :
> On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:56 PM, AON LAZIO wrote:
>> That will be superb
> 
> I guess static typing will have to be added, so that tools like eclipse 
> can inspect (and autocomplete) your programs [better].

Yet another troll...



From dickinsm at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 08:48:09 2010
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:48:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
	<pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <3fb9d59b-21c2-4372-9a32-c542e884faa7@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 8:11?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> Making spaces significant in that fashion is mind-bogglingly awful. Let's
> look at a language that does this:
>
> [steve at sylar ~]$ cat ws-example.rb
> def a(x=4)
> ? ? x+2
> end
>
> b = 1
> print (a + b), (a+b), (a+ b), (a +b), "\n"
>
> [steve at sylar ~]$ ruby ws-example.rb
> 7773

Hmm.  That's pretty nasty, all right.  Not that Python can claim to be
immune to such behaviour:

>>> 3 .real
3
>>> 3. real
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    3. real
          ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax


Though the fact that one of the cases raises an exception (rather than
silently giving some different behaviour) ameliorates things a bit.

--
Mark


From edreamleo at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 08:53:44 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:53:44 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7 final released
Message-ID: <ndn7o5trgoash2css41b0s0bu1hp88qkie@4ax.com>


Leo 4.7 final                    February 23, 2009

Leo 4.7 final is now available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106

Leo 4.7 final fixes all known bugs in Leo.

Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more.
See:
http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

The highlights of Leo 4.7:
--------------------------

- Leo now uses the simplest possible internal data model.
  This is the so-called "one-node" world.
- Leo supports Python 3.x.
- Leo requires Python 2.6 or above.
- Several important improvements in file handling.
    - Leo converts @file nodes to @thin nodes automatically.
    - Leo creates a 'Recovered Nodes' node to hold data that
      otherwise might be lost due to clone conflicts.
    - @auto-rst now works much more reliably reliably.
    - Leo no longer supports @noref trees.  Such trees are not
      reliable in cooperative environments.
- A new Windows installer.
- Many other features, including new command line options and new
plugins.
- Dozens of bug fixes.

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Forum:    http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
Bzr:      http://code.launchpad.net/leo-editor/
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html


From thom1948 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:21:50 2010
From: thom1948 at gmail.com (Thomas)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:21:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to transmit a crash report ?
References: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>
	<mailman.86.1266892058.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0b222aec-db04-45b7-9f86-e2839ffafc40@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 9:27?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Stef Mientki wrote:
> > hello,
>
> > in my python desktop applications,
> > I'ld like to implement a crash reporter.
> > By redirecting the sys.excepthook,
> > I can detect a crash and collect the necessary data.
> > Now I want that my users sends this information to me,
> > and I can't find a good way of doing this.
>
> > The following solutions came into my mind:
> > (most of my users are on Windows, and the programs are written in Python
> > 2.6)
>
> > 1. mailto:
> > doesn't work if the the user didn't install a default email client,
> > or if the user uses a portable email client (that isn't started yet)
> > Besides this limits the messages to small amounts of data.
>
> > 2.other mail options: smtp
> > AFAIK such a solution needs smtp authorization, and therefor I've to put
> > my username and password in the desktop application.
>
> Try reading the documentation for Python's smtplib module.
>
> You don't need to provide any password.
>
>
>
> > 3. http-post
> > Although post is also limited in size,
> > I could store information in cookies (don't know yet how), and cookies
> > are sent parallel to the post message.
> > On the server site I can use a small php script, that stores the
> > post-data, cookies and/or send's a (long) email.
>
> > are there better options ?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Try http://code.activestate.com/recipes/442459/


From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:34:00 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:34:00 -0500
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <16651e81002230634t6d2d0679pe9d1ac028164cc1c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with XP,
> and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary Python/W7
> user. Is there a simple solution?

I know people went off on a tangent talking about symbolic links and
hard links, but it is extremely unlikely that you created something
like that by accident.  Windows just doesn't create those without you
doing quite a bit of extra work.  It certainly doesn't create them
when you drag & drop files around through the normal interface.

> How do I get out of this pickle? I just want to duplicate the ?program in
> another folder, and not link to an ancestor.

You need to dig into the technical details of what's happening on your
hard drive.  You say you "copied a program from folder A to folder B".
 Can you describe, exactly, what steps you took?  What was the file
name of the program?  Was it just one file, or a directory, or several
files? What was the path to directory A?  What is the the path to
directory B?  When you open a CMD window and do a dir of each
directory, what exactly do you see?

You've given a pretty non-technical description of the problem you're
experiencing.  If you want more than wild speculation, you'll need to
give more specifics for people to help you with.

My wild guess: you held down control and shift while copying your
program.  That's the keyboard command to create a shortcut instead of
moving or copying a file.

-- 
Jerry


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:36:02 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
Message-ID: <hm0p2g$577$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hello,

I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator is 
not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:

import struct

def gen_rand_string():
     fileobj = open('/dev/urandom','rb')
     rstr = fileobj.read(4)
     rnum = struct.unpack('L',rstr)[0]
     rstr = '%i' % rnum
     rnuml = []
     while len(rstr) >= 2:
         c = rstr[:2]
         try:
             num = int(c)
             rnuml.append(num)
         except ValueError:
             pass
         rstr = rstr[2:]
     rnuml = map(lambda x: 97+x/4, rnuml)
     rnumc = map(chr, rnuml)
     return ''.join(rnumc)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     print gen_rand_string()

(yes I know that this way generated string will not contain 'z' because 
99/4 + 97 = 121 which is 'y')

The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this 
way be considered truly random? (I abstract from not-quite-perfect 
nature of /dev/urandom at the moment; I can always switch to /dev/random 
which is better)


Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:49:12 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:49:12 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm0pr6$85u$1@dough.gmane.org>

AON LAZIO wrote:
> That will be superb

Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=java&l=uk

This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword "Java" appears.


Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csharp&l=uk



What worries me somewhat (although not much) is that after long period 
of solid growth the market can't decide about Python:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=python&l=uk


I learned painfully that in corporate setting merits of a programming 
language do not matter much, it's more like "whatever catches the 
groupthink" at the moment. "Java is good because big ones select Java", 
"static typing is good because compiler catches programmer's errors" 
(this one is particularly appealing to managers I found), etc.

Although all my "internal use" tools are written in Python, there's no 
way I could convince managers to use Python as the main application 
devel language.

This, however, is not of itself a problem: as long as language is lively 
and has at least a few percent of programmers using it -- which is 
important for existence of libraries, not much more -- there's no 
problem for people who want to get ahead of competition / waste less 
time by using advanced programming langauges. Frankly, I have yet to 
encounter a problem for which either a sizable Python extension or 
bindings to a popular library wouldn't exist. This in itself is a 
hallmark of a language being "enough of mainstream to actually matter in 
practice".

This I find quite insightful: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html



Regards,
mk





From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:51:42 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:51:42 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm0pvs$85u$2@dough.gmane.org>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
>> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
> 
> That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
> supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?

Well it looks like it is at least stabilized:

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=php&l=uk

I find job offers to be rather good index of the extent to which the 
language is actually used, and this is what this index is based on 
(percentage of job offers with the keyword "php" in them).

Regards,
mk



From anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 09:59:40 2010
From: anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com (Anh Hai Trinh)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 06:59:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<hlg7q5$vam$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<2fdedc76-140b-4773-a208-689a088ebb3d@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<op.u8at0suda8ncjz@gnudebst> <hlnvi2$fjt$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<4b7f8c4d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.2831.1266652443.28905.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxz2v47t.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.78.1266868825.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87iq9pt3l5.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.90.1266899718.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<aaabbae1-0c0d-4d53-bee6-f253092400fc@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xy6iky207.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<hlvr2l$au1$2@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <fc1893b7-0b52-443a-a48c-e04c968bfc20@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 1:03?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>
> Uhm, Paganini...
>
> As I understand it he invented the "destroy your instruments on stage". :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Alf (off-topic)

You probably meant Franz Liszt, who regularly broke piano strings.
Paganini was also a "rock-star" virtuoso but he did not destroy any
Guarnerius or Stradivarius violins in his possession (at least not to
anyone's knowledge :)

As for functional programming, different people take it to mean
different things. For some, simply using first-class functions
qualifies as functional programming.  Others require their functions
to be pure so that their call graphs can be automatically reduced and
their results can be lazily evaluated.  If you takes the former view,
most Python programmers already do functional programming :p

--aht


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:00:18 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:00:18 +0100
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
In-Reply-To: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hm0qfv$85u$3@dough.gmane.org>

Giorgos Tzampanakis wrote:
> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I want to have a  
> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine code for 
> me. I want to use Python for that. Are there any libraries that 
> can help me with the parsing of the assembly code?

I'm not sure about your field of application (never done anything like 
that), but I found pyparsing highly usable.

Regards,
mk



From sccolbert at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:06:31 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:06:31 -0500
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <4B83C265.2090802@googlemail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4B83C265.2090802@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002230706i29a9816eu8eb75369a2025b92@mail.gmail.com>

Do you have gtk and PyGTK installed? Sounds like a missing dependency to me.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Alan Harris-Reid <
aharrisreid at googlemail.com> wrote:

> gorauskas wrote:
>
>> I installed it on a Windows 7 machine with CPython 2.6.4 and I get the
>> following error:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "dreampie.py", line 3, in <module>
>>  File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 73, in <module>
>>  File "dreampielib\gui\load_pygtk.pyc", line 49, in load_pygtk
>> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
>>
>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks,  JGG
>>
> And I installed it on WinXP sp3 and Python 3.1 - when launched a window
> flashes before my eyes, then disappears!  Has the installation package been
> checked for all common Windows versions?
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Feb 23 10:10:50 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:10:50 +0000
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm0r5n$1ak$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Actually I am still waiting for Java to be mainstream :-)
You could say it is popular, which it is without doubt but in my opinion 
after C handed over it's pseudo de facto standard (mostly because a lot 
of OS'es are written in it) nobody else has had enough momenta to reach 
for that crown.

Actually I quite like the soup of languages these days, what amuses me 
though, that Python seems to emerge as the de facto glue language to 
bind them all :-)

-- 
mph


From anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:14:16 2010
From: anh.hai.trinh at gmail.com (Anh Hai Trinh)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:14:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1> 
	<hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <da970fce-bd6b-4eb3-bb66-3ca52cc0fd4a@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 10:08?am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>
> Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself as the assembler.
> Call routines in your library to output the code. That way you have a
> language more powerful than any assembler.
>
> See <http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8> for an example.

SyntaxError: Non-matching "#end if" in crosscode8.py:345


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb 23 10:29:44 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:29:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-23, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
> Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>
> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
> posts to this list?

I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
and all but one of the mailing lists I read.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm wearing PAMPERS!!
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb 23 10:31:12 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-23, Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-02-23, D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
>> Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>>
>> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
>> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
>> posts to this list?
>
> I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
> and all but one of the mailing lists I read.

Wait, I misread the posting.  I block everything from
google.groups, not everything from gmail.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I have accepted
                                  at               Provolone into my life!
                               visi.com            


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:38:28 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:38:28 +0100
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm0sni$jrv$1@dough.gmane.org>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
> On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>>>     Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading multiple
>>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
>>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
>>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
>>> carry through to the cache for the code.
>>     That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
>> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
>> Python is not.

> Of course.  Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
> to call exec() or the equivalent.

> It works fine if you use os.fork().

What about just using subprocess module to run system commands in worker 
threads? Is this likely to have problems?

Regards,
mk




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:39:11 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:39:11 +0100
Subject: Avoid converting functions to methods in a class
In-Reply-To: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4b7f5824$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002230739s4fbe232dnd6311ccea5b5ff75@mail.gmail.com>

> I have a convention when writing unit tests to put the target of the test
> into a class attribute, as follows:
>
> class MyTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.someclass
>
>     def test_spam(self):
>         """Test that someclass has a spam attribute."""
>         self.failUnless(hasattr(self.target, 'spam'))
>
>
> It works well until I write a test for stand-alone functions:
>
> class AnotherTest(unittest.TestCase):
>     target = mymodule.function
>
>     def test_foo(self):
>         self.assertEquals(self.target('a', 'b'), 'foo')
>
> The problem is that target is turned into a method of my test class, not
> a standalone function, and I get errors like:
>
> TypeError: function() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
>
> The solution I currently use is to drop the target attribute in this
> class, and just refer to mymodule.function in each individual test. I
> don't like this solution because it violates Once And Only Once: if the
> function changes name, I have to make many edits to the test suite rather
> than just one.

Isn't staticmethod the trick you need?

HTH,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From aharrisreid at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:39:44 2010
From: aharrisreid at googlemail.com (Alan Harris-Reid)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:39:44 +0000
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea61002230706i29a9816eu8eb75369a2025b92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	
	<1053124a-8ceb-4804-a7e5-9433acd3f02d@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	
	<4B83C265.2090802@googlemail.com>
	<7f014ea61002230706i29a9816eu8eb75369a2025b92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B83F6C0.9010807@googlemail.com>

Chris Colbert wrote:
> Do you have gtk and PyGTK installed? Sounds like a missing dependency 
> to me.
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Alan Harris-Reid 
> <aharrisreid at googlemail.com <mailto:aharrisreid at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>     gorauskas wrote:
>
>         I installed it on a Windows 7 machine with CPython 2.6.4 and I
>         get the
>         following error:
>
>         Traceback (most recent call last):
>          File "dreampie.py", line 3, in <module>
>          File "dreampielib\gui\__init__.pyc", line 73, in <module>
>          File "dreampielib\gui\load_pygtk.pyc", line 49, in load_pygtk
>         ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not
>         be found.
>
>         What am I doing wrong?
>
>         Thanks,  JGG
>
>     And I installed it on WinXP sp3 and Python 3.1 - when launched a
>     window flashes before my eyes, then disappears!  Has the
>     installation package been checked for all common Windows versions?
>
>     Regards,
>     Alan
>
>     -- 
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
Hi Chris, thanks for the reply,

That explains it.  No, I don't have gtk installed - I wasn't aware of 
that dependency.

Regards,
Alan
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From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 10:49:07 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:49:07 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
Message-ID: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>

Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets 
from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to 
be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:59:22 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:59:22 +0100
Subject: AKKA vs Python
Message-ID: <hm0tun$oap$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

Is there smth like AKKA in Python?

http://akkasource.org/

Regards,
mk



From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb 23 11:09:54 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:09:54 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:12 +0000 (UTC)
Grant Edwards <invalid at invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
> >> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
> >> posts to this list?
> >
> > I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
> > and all but one of the mailing lists I read.
> 
> Wait, I misread the posting.  I block everything from
> google.groups, not everything from gmail.

Yes, I did that a long time ago as well.  But now there seems to be
more and more actual spam coming from gmail.com itself.  It may just be
a minor blip on the spam graph but I'm keeping my eye on it.

Most mailing lists that I am on are pretty good at filtering spam
before it gets to the list.  The only spam I ever see on my NetBSD
lists are the ones that I moderate and I block them before anyone else
sees them.  A little more pain for me in return for a lot less pain for
everyone else.  I guess that's not possible on a list that is gatewayed
to UseNet like this one is.

Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Feb 23 11:18:07 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:18:07 -0800
Subject: AKKA vs Python
In-Reply-To: <hm0tun$oap$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <hm0tun$oap$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002230818t708262f1v3b63eebf12684d67@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:59 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Is there smth like AKKA in Python?
>
> http://akkasource.org/

Minus the "distributed" part, yes; there are a few implementations of
actors for Python:
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~jwa/stage/
http://osl.cs.uiuc.edu/parley/
http://candygram.sourceforge.net/candygram.html

It's a variant on the vanilla actor model, but I've heard good buzz about:
http://www.kamaelia.org/

(Unless it wasn't already clear, I haven't used any of these myself.)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From rpdooling at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 11:26:18 2010
From: rpdooling at gmail.com (Rick Dooling)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

No telling what Windows will do. :)

I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
paths instead and remove all doubt.

http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html

RD


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 11:27:49 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:27:49 -0600
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
In-Reply-To: <166845.21850.qm@web58906.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<166845.21850.qm@web58906.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <hm0vm5$g5$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-22 21:47 PM, Ed Keith wrote:
>> Subject: Re: Writing an assembler in Python
>> Giorgos
>> Tzampanakis wrote:
>>
>>> I'm implementing a CPU that will run on an FPGA. I
>> want to have a
>>> (dead) simple assembler that will generate the machine
>> code for
>>> me.
>>
>> Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself
>> as the assembler.
>> Call routines in your library to output the code. That way
>> you have a
>> language more powerful than any assembler.
>>
>> See<http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8>  for
>> an example.
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
> Not a bad idea, has anyone tried this for x86 machine code?

http://www.corepy.org/

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 11:30:39 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:30:39 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm0r5n$1ak$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0r5n$1ak$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <0C0B45B8-BF31-4759-B2AE-C443D065FC17@gmail.com>


On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:

> Actually I am still waiting for Java to be mainstream :-)
> You could say it is popular, which it is without doubt but in my opinion after C handed over it's pseudo de facto standard (mostly because a lot of OS'es are written in it) nobody else has had enough momenta to reach for that crown.
> 
> Actually I quite like the soup of languages these days, what amuses me though, that Python seems to emerge as the de facto glue language to bind them all :-)

I'm sure there's a Tolkien 1-liner in there somewhere ;-).

S



From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 11:47:18 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:47:18 -0400
Subject: SMTPServerDisconnected
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
I think the last main thing I have to do on my server is get a running email
server up. Now that I've nuked sendmail and given up on postfix, I'm back to
trying to get qmail up and running again. Of course, there are no active
discussion lists for *any* email server, so I have to turn here for help.
While running a script that worked perfectly well on another server to send
an email, I get the following error:

A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.

A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.

 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
   52 </head>
   53 <body>'''
   54 my_mail()
   55 print '''
   56 </body>
my_mail = <function my_mail>
 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
   33       to_address = ourEmail1,
   34       subject = subject,
   35       message = message
   36   ).send()
   37   Email(
message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
  344         smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
  345         if self.smtp_server:
  346             smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
  347         else:
  348             smtp.connect()
smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect of
<smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>, self.smtp_server
= 'localhost'
 /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
host='localhost', port=25)
  305         if not self.sock:
  306             raise socket.error, msg
  307         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
  308         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
  309         return (code, msg)
code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
<smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
<smtplib.SMTP instance>>
 /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>)
  349             if line == '':
  350                 self.close()
  351                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection unexpectedly
closed")
  352             if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
repr(line)
  353             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
      args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)

I cannot find the qmail logs. I assumed they'd be in either
/var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send
or
/var/qmail/supervise/qmail-smtpd
but I find no logs there.


[SSH] Protocol Version 2 (OpenSSH_4.3)
[SSH] Cipher: aes128-cbc

Logged in (password)

Last login: Tue Feb 23 05:24:00 2010 from 66.248.168.67
[beno at 13gems ~]$ su
Password:
[root at 13gems beno]# man netstat
[root at 13gems beno]# netstat
Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address               Foreign Address
State
getnameinfo failed
tcp        0    268 nrelectric.com:ssh          [UNKNOWN]:61912
ESTABLISHED
Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
Proto RefCnt Flags       Type       State         I-Node Path
unix  7      [ ]         DGRAM                    10842  /dev/log
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10370
 @/org/kernel/udev/udevd
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077731
unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077679
unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077678
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077675
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11556
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11511
unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10990
[root at 13gems beno]#


How do I trouble-shoot this?
TIA,
beno

-- 
The Logos has come to bear
http://logos.13gems.com/
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From m.91ahesh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:04:13 2010
From: m.91ahesh at gmail.com (ranga...............)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:04:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Free check of $253 with your name.
Message-ID: <0e5a7c60-e3da-4f74-8549-cc5885d1f309@g8g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Just open below site and select any one of the four red color links
present below sponsors and enter your payename and address where to
get your check.

The secret link is http://highpayingkeywordsofadsense.blogspot.com/2010/01/google-yahoo-msn-adsense-high-paying_29.html


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 13:12:22 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:12:22 -0800
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
In-Reply-To: <574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm15qd$764$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/23/2010 8:26 AM, Rick Dooling wrote:
> No telling what Windows will do. :)
>
> I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
> tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
> paths instead and remove all doubt.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html
>
> RD
You may be right. The actual 300 line program just reads the folder 
without specifying any path. I'm not that familiar with os path, but 
have seen it used.


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:14:38 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:14:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On 23 feb, 10:54, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>
> Fascism is coming fastly to Internet because is the only communication
> way that governements (managed by the bank and multinationals) cann't
> control
>
> http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/21/acta-internet-enforc.html

This is something that affects to all programmers:

"This calls on all parties to ensure that "third party liability" (the
idea that ISPs, web-hosts, application developers, mobile carriers,
universities, apartment buildings, and other "third parties" to
infringement are sometimes liable for their users' copyright
infringements) is on the books in their countries. It doesn't spell
out what that liability should be, beyond "knowingly and materially
aiding" an infringement"

http://craphound.com/acta_digital_chapter-1.pdf


From nevillednz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:24:08 2010
From: nevillednz at gmail.com (NevilleDNZ)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:24:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Modifying Class Object
References: <pan.2010.02.09.05.38.26@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> 
	<mailman.2323.1265836683.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkva9q$qu6$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<mailman.2343.1265860271.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ky8wte.705@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <9e4f092e-647e-4330-b2ad-e3982b4c8f2c@t9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi Groetjes Albert,

I spotted your comment - re: pointers
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/5c1e25919b6a74bf

On Feb 22, 11:44 pm, Albert van der Horst <alb... at spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
wrote:
(I once studied algol 68, and never got confused about these
> subjects anymore, recommended.)

Having used Algol68, then switching to C to discover "*" for manual
dereferencing I immediately wanted to be back using A68 again, but
alas...  Then when I switched to C++ I immediately understood the
"Zen" of C++'s "&"... but still wanted to switch back to A68.  Was
there ever a version with "Objects"... I saw a version with "Areas"
but have no idea what an "Area" is.

@Albert: Given the domain name "xs4all" in your email address I am
sure YOU have spotted: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jmvdveer/algol.html by
Marcel

Also: I invite you to join one of the below groups (my .sig below) and
deposit some of your Algol68 impressions....

There is also a chrestomathy site http://rosettacode.org/wiki/ALGOL_68
where you can pick out an code sample unimplemented in Algol68 and
torture test your Algol68 memories.  (Be warned: Most of the easy
samples are done)

Keep in touch
NevilleDNZ
--
For Algol68-user mailinglist with archives & subscription:
* https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/algol68-user
To download Linux's Algol68 Compiler, Interpreter & Runtime:
* http://sourceforge.net/projects/algol68
Join the linkedin.com's Algol68 group, follow:
* http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2333923


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Tue Feb 23 13:25:24 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:25:24 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
Message-ID: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach in 
this.

In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in 
Python:

 >>> def a():
	pass
 >>> def a(x):
	pass
 >>> a()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
     a()
TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
Is there any better Idom than:

 >>> def a(x=None):
	if x is None:
		pass
	else:
		pass

?

Thanks,
Michael


From nagle at animats.com  Tue Feb 23 13:35:38 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:35:38 -0800
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b841bf1$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

mk wrote:
> sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Feb 20, 9:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>> sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Feb 18, 2:58 pm, John Nagle <na... at animats.com> wrote:
>>>>>     Multiple processes are not the answer.  That means loading 
>>>>> multiple
>>>>> copies of the same code into different areas of memory.  The cache
>>>>> miss rate goes up accordingly.
>>>> A decent OS will use copy-on-write with forked processes, which should
>>>> carry through to the cache for the code.
>>>     That doesn't help much if you're using the subprocess module.  The
>>> C code of the interpreter is shared, but all the code generated from
>>> Python is not.
> 
>> Of course.  Multithreading also fails miserably if the threads all try
>> to call exec() or the equivalent.
> 
>> It works fine if you use os.fork().
> 
> What about just using subprocess module to run system commands in worker 
> threads? Is this likely to have problems?
> 
> Regards,
> mk

    The discussion above was about using "fork" to avoid duplicating the
entire Python environment for each subprocess.  If you use the subprocess
module, you load a new program, so you don't get much memory sharing.
This increases the number of cache misses, which is a major bottleneck
in many-CPU systems with shared caches.

    The issue being discussed was scaling Python for CPUs with many cores.
With Intel shipping 4 cores/8 hyperthread CPUs, the 6/12 part working,
and the 8/16 part coming along, this is more than a theoretical
issue.

				John Nagle


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:49:53 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:49:53 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002231049p5ba6a88ci3ec3521f8cf73f27@mail.gmail.com>

> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in
> Python:
>
>  >>> def a():
> 	pass
>  >>> def a(x):
> 	pass
>  >>> a()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
>      a()
> TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
>
>  >>> def a(x=None):
> 	if x is None:
> 		pass
> 	else:
> 		pass

This is generally considered to be the pythonic idiom for what you describe.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From cgrebeld at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 13:49:59 2010
From: cgrebeld at gmail.com (chris grebeldinger)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:49:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> 
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <06b6fb1b-f3ee-498c-ad8b-5557eb711a3d@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

Have you tried opening file explorer in administrative mode before
performing the copy?  I think if there isn't sufficient permissions,
it does something weird like that.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb 23 13:56:44 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:56:44 +1300
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<06b6fb1b-f3ee-498c-ad8b-5557eb711a3d@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm18db$l19$1@speranza.aioe.org>

chris grebeldinger wrote:
> Have you tried opening file explorer in administrative mode before
> performing the copy?  I think if there isn't sufficient permissions,
> it does something weird like that.

No


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Feb 23 13:58:59 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:58:59 -0500
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4B842573.2010706@optimum.net>

On 2/23/2010 1:25 PM, Michael Rudolf wrote:
> Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach in
> this.
>
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in
> Python:
>
>  >>> def a():
> pass
>  >>> def a(x):
> pass
>  >>> a()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
> a()
> TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
>
>  >>> def a(x=None):
> if x is None:
> pass
> else:
> pass
>

Consider this:

#------------------
def myfunc(*arglist):
     if not arglist:
         print "no arguments"
         return
     for i, arg in enumerate(arglist):
         print "Argument %d is a %s, with value:" % (i, type(arg)),
         print arg


myfunc()
print "---"
myfunc(1)
print "---"
myfunc(2, "three", [4, 5,6])
#------------------

program output:

no arguments
---
Argument 0 is a <type 'int'>, with value: 1
---
Argument 0 is a <type 'int'>, with value: 2
Argument 1 is a <type 'str'>, with value: three
Argument 2 is a <type 'list'>, with value: [4, 5, 6]


HTH,
John


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb 23 14:08:16 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:08:16 +1300
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm1930$mgs$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Rick Dooling wrote:
> No telling what Windows will do. :)

It isn't useful to respond to a serious question with OS bigotry.


From timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:09:10 2010
From: timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com (Timothy N. Tsvetkov)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:09:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python 
	to have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
References: <q6pln5d98tgiuh97qph1o6nqtrmi3b01sc@4ax.com>
	<60b1abce-4381-46ab-91ed-f2ab2154c0a1@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b3743d50-c0cf-4a4b-953c-d709194284f8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 16, 10:41?pm, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrov... at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 16, 7:38?pm, Casey Hawthorne <caseyhHAMMER_T... at istar.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Interesting talk on Python vs. Ruby and how he would like Python to
> > have just a bit more syntactic flexibility.
>
> >http://blog.extracheese.org/2010/02/python-vs-ruby-a-battle-to-the-de...
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Casey
>
> Gary's friend Geoffrey Grosenbach says in his blog post (which Gary
> linked to): "Python has no comparable equivalent to Ruby?s do end
> block. Python lambdas are limited to one line and can?t contain
> statements (for, if, def, etc.). Which leaves me wondering, what?s the
> point?"
>
> I'm sorry, lambda's do support if's and for's. Also, lambda's are
> expressions, not statements, but you can pass them around, keep them
> in a dictionary if you want to. And if you need more than one line of
> statements, for crying out loud use a def? And who needs those "do-
> end" blocks anyway, trying to turn Python into Pascal?

I think there are some nice use-cases for anonymous functions /
blocks. First, mentioned above, is pretty DSL. And the second is using
blocks in map/reduce functions. Yes, you can pass there a function but
I believe that in most situations it is more readable to pass a
multiline anonymous function / block than defined somewhere function
written only for a single map/reduce operation. And often when you use
reduce it is a bit more complicated then just one line function.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb 23 14:14:04 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:14:04 +1300
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hm15qd$764$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm19ds$mv5$1@speranza.aioe.org>

W. eWatson wrote:
> On 2/23/2010 8:26 AM, Rick Dooling wrote:
>> No telling what Windows will do. :)
>>
>> I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
>> tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
>> paths instead and remove all doubt.
>>
>> http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html
>>
>> RD
> You may be right. The actual 300 line program just reads the folder 
> without specifying any path. I'm not that familiar with os path, but 
> have seen it used.

How do you invoke the program?  Do you use a Command Prompt window?


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 14:19:59 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:19:59 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
> I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator
> is not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:...
> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated
> this way be considered truly random? (I abstract from
> not-quite-perfect nature of /dev/urandom at the moment; I can always
> switch to /dev/random which is better)

urandom is fine and the entropy loss from the numeric conversions and
eliminating 'z' in that code before you get letters out is not too bad.
The code is pretty ugly.  The main problem is you end up with a password
that's usually 5 letters but sometimes just 4 or fewer.  Passwords that
short are vulnerable to dictionary attacks.  Longer passwords made from
random letters are difficult to remember.

I find it's most practical to use a few random words (chosen from a word
list like /usr/dict/words) rather than random letters.  Words are easier
to remember and type.

You might look at the site www.diceware.com for an approach to this,
which you can implement with a program.  The docs there are pretty
thoughtful and may help you understand the relevant issues.


From CORY.L.NARDIN at saic.com  Tue Feb 23 14:22:16 2010
From: CORY.L.NARDIN at saic.com (Nardin, Cory L.)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:22:16 -0800
Subject: Python won't run
In-Reply-To: <46D34AB9-9DC7-47E9-8288-2B5DFDB55BB8@activestate.com>
References: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502AC479A@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
	<46D34AB9-9DC7-47E9-8288-2B5DFDB55BB8@activestate.com>
Message-ID: <29325D156EE06640B05BB9FD0D4AC2B502B30AFE@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>

Thanks so much for that suggestion.  I used the tool and found two
missing libraries: MSVCR90.DLL and DWMAPI.DLL.  I located and copied the
first library to my python directory (and resolved that dependency), but
I am still missing the other.  I have done a Google search and found
that DWMAPI is a Vista library.  I am have XP, so I am not sure why it
is a required dependency?  I made sure that I have all the MS updates
(presumably MS would include a new library in an update if it became a
required library) and that did not solve the problem.  Is this a bug or
should I have that library on my computer and the fact that it isn't
there is the sign of some other problem?

 

Thanks

Cory

 

________________________________

From: Sridhar Ratnakumar [mailto:sridharr at activestate.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 11:54 AM
To: Nardin, Cory L.
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python won't run

 

Have you tried using  <http://dependencywalker.com/> 
http://dependencywalker.com/ ?

 

-srid

 

On 2010-02-18, at 1:00 PM, Nardin, Cory L. wrote:





Quickly, I have a Mac Intel with Windows XP installed.  Tried installing
Python 2.6.4 from the binary and also ActivePython 2.6.4.10.  Both
installations acted the same.  There seemed to be no problems during
installation (used default options), but when I try to run Python I get
an error message: "This application has failed to start because the
application configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application
may fix this problem."

 

Of course I searched on that error and it seems to be related to a MS
library.  In a few different places it was recommended to install the MS
Visual Studio redistributable package, which I did with no change in
outcome.  I really have no idea what to do.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Cory

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

 

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From olof.bjarnason at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:30:03 2010
From: olof.bjarnason at gmail.com (Olof Bjarnason)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:30:03 +0100
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
In-Reply-To: <6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c3dfe1d1002231130v6b65bbcaoa6e2943f6d653839@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/23 Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com>:
> On 23 feb, 10:54, Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>>
>> Fascism is coming fastly to Internet because is the only communication
>> way that governements (managed by the bank and multinationals) cann't
>> control
>>
>> http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/21/acta-internet-enforc.html
>
> This is something that affects to all programmers:
>
> "This calls on all parties to ensure that "third party liability" (the
> idea that ISPs, web-hosts, application developers, mobile carriers,
> universities, apartment buildings, and other "third parties" to
> infringement are sometimes liable for their users' copyright
> infringements) is on the books in their countries. It doesn't spell
> out what that liability should be, beyond "knowingly and materially
> aiding" an infringement"
>
> http://craphound.com/acta_digital_chapter-1.pdf
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

<politics>

Even if this is "Off Topic" (which I think it really isn't in any open
source / free software-oriented mailing list), I want to agree with
Joan.

ACTA is a *real* problem that we must fend politically. Here is a blog
post I wrote about the problem with making ISPs liable for what their
users communicate:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Folofb.wordpress.com%2F&sl=sv&tl=en
(sorry for the bad quality google translation -- this is an important topic!)

Note the name of the important principle: "Mere conduit".

</politics>

-- 
http://olofb.wordpress.com


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:36:23 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>
	<4b82dc5a$0$22916$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <2e510063-7fc0-4cfc-8fd2-53214f1b6c4d@h12g2000vbd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 8:32?pm, Hans Mulder <han... at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> G?nther Dietrich wrote:
> > vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%
> >> I've tried:
>
> >> print format(.7,'%%')
> >> .7.format('%%')
>
> >> but neither works. I don't know what the syntax is...
>
> > Did you try this:
>
> >>>> print('%d%%' % (0.7 * 100))
> > 70%
>
> That method will always round down; TomF's method will round to
> the nearest whole number:
>
> ?>>> print "%d%%" % (0.698 * 100)
> 69%
> ?>>> print "{0:.0%}".format(.698)
> 70%
>
> Only the OP knows which one is more appropriate for his use case.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> -- HansM

Great!!!

Thank you


From monkey at joemoney.net  Tue Feb 23 14:42:05 2010
From: monkey at joemoney.net (monkeys paw)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:42:05 -0500
Subject: python dowload
Message-ID: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>

I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
with the write operation?

import urllib2
url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
     a.write(line)


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:59:23 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:59:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 7:19?pm, Paul Rubin <no.em... at nospam.invalid> wrote:

> The code is pretty ugly. ?The main problem is you end up with a password
> that's usually 5 letters but sometimes just 4 or fewer. ?

Well I didn't write the whole thing here, in actual use I'd write a
loop repeating the function until I have enough characters and then
I'd select a substring of specified length.

Anything else in the code that is ugly and I should correct?

> You might look at the sitewww.diceware.comfor an approach to this,
> which you can implement with a program. ?The docs there are pretty
> thoughtful and may help you understand the relevant issues.

Thanks. But I would also be grateful for indicating what is wrong/ugly
in my code.

Regards,
mk




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:04:02 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:04:02 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hm1cbi$k7u$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 13:19 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:

> I find it's most practical to use a few random words (chosen from a word
> list like /usr/dict/words) rather than random letters.  Words are easier
> to remember and type.
>
> You might look at the site www.diceware.com for an approach to this,
> which you can implement with a program.  The docs there are pretty
> thoughtful and may help you understand the relevant issues.

I like RFC 1751 for this:

http://gitweb.pycrypto.org/?p=crypto/pycrypto-2.x.git;a=blob;f=lib/Crypto/Util/RFC1751.py;h=1c98a212c22066adabfee521b495eeb4f9d7232b;hb=HEAD

Shortened URL:

http://tr.im/Pv9B

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From gd_usenet at spamfence.net  Tue Feb 23 15:09:38 2010
From: gd_usenet at spamfence.net (=?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:09:38 +0100
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<tv9857-cr7.ln1@spamfence.net>
	<4b82dc5a$0$22916$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <29pd57-qhp.ln1@spamfence.net>

Hans Mulder <hansmu at xs4all.nl> wrote:

>> Did you try this:
>> 
>>>>> print('%d%%' % (0.7 * 100))
>> 70%
>
>That method will always round down; TomF's method will round to
>the nearest whole number:
>
> >>> print "%d%%" % (0.698 * 100)
>69%
> >>> print "{0:.0%}".format(.698)
>70%

It was intended as a hint to this way of formatting. He could also try:

>>> print('%.0f%%' % (0.698 * 100))
70%



Best regards,

G?nther


From john at castleamber.com  Tue Feb 23 15:09:50 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:09:50 -0600
Subject: python dowload
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <87635naf3l.fsf@castleamber.com>

monkeys paw <monkey at joemoney.net> writes:

> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
>
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>     a.write(line)

pdf is /not/ text. You're processing it like it's a text file (and
storing it like it's text, which on Windows is most likely a no no).

import urllib2

url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
response = urllib2.urlopen(url)
fh = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
fh.write(response.read())
fh.close()
response.close()

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb 23 15:16:25 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:16:25 -0500
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
In-Reply-To: <c3dfe1d1002231130v6b65bbcaoa6e2943f6d653839@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<c3dfe1d1002231130v6b65bbcaoa6e2943f6d653839@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100223151625.50fde3cb.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:30:03 +0100
Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason at gmail.com> wrote:
> Even if this is "Off Topic" (which I think it really isn't in any open
> source / free software-oriented mailing list), I want to agree with
> Joan.

It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic.  So
what if some members have an interest?  We have interest in a lot of
things.  We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
but questions about hardware are also off topic.

Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
of discussions they want to be involved in.  By spamming the group this
way you take away that freedom of choice.  It's ironic when it is done
in the name of freedom.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Feb 23 15:17:11 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:17:11 -0600
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8437C7.2030408@tim.thechases.com>

monkeys paw wrote:
> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
> 
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')

Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?

> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>      a.write(line)

I also don't know if this "for line...a.write(line)" loop is 
doing newline translation.  If it's a binary file, you should use 
.read() (perhaps with a modest-sized block-size, writing it in a 
loop if the file can end up being large.)

-tkc




From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:17:19 2010
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:17:19 -0500
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <16651e81002231217s297dc93avdaadbc51716ca098@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:42 PM, monkeys paw <monkey at joemoney.net> wrote:
> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
>
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
> ? ?a.write(line)

Two guesses:

First, you need to call a.close() when you're done writing to the file.

This will happen automatically when you have no more references to the
file, but I'm guessing that you're running this code in IDLE or some
other IDE, and a is still a valid reference to the file after you run
that snippet.

Second, you're treating the pdf file as text (you're assuming it has
lines, you're not writing the file in binary mode, etc.).  I don't
know if that's correct for a pdf file.  I would do something like this
instead:

Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
IDLE 2.6.4

>>> import urllib2
>>> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
>>> a = open('C:/test.pdf', 'wb')
>>> data = urllib2.urlopen(url).read()
>>> a.write(data)
>>> a.close()

That seems to works for me, in that it downloads a 16 page pdf
document, and that document opens without error or any other obvious
problems.

-- 
Jerry


From drobinow at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:20:54 2010
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:20:54 -0500
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f1002231220uf488e59pc0b0d02c987ebc33@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:42 PM, monkeys paw <monkey at joemoney.net> wrote:
> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
>
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
> ? ?a.write(line)

If you're running Windows, try
  a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')

[Works for me]


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:22:39 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:39 -0500
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <72DB116B-19DC-4BDB-A009-C80A3CE28061@gmail.com>


On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:42 PM, monkeys paw wrote:

> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
> with the write operation?
> 
> import urllib2
> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')

Try 'wb', just in case.

S



> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>    a.write(line)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From anand.shashwat at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:28:53 2010
From: anand.shashwat at gmail.com (Shashwat Anand)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:58:53 +0530
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <4B8437C7.2030408@tim.thechases.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com> 
	<4B8437C7.2030408@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <d4ab53de1002231228j62b4ebacxef5966864769706e@mail.gmail.com>

PyPdf/pdfminer library will be of help

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 1:47 AM, Tim Chase <python.list at tim.thechases.com>wrote:

> monkeys paw wrote:
>
>> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
>> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
>> with the write operation?
>>
>> import urllib2
>> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
>> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
>>
>
> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?
>
>
>  for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>>     a.write(line)
>>
>
> I also don't know if this "for line...a.write(line)" loop is doing newline
> translation.  If it's a binary file, you should use .read() (perhaps with a
> modest-sized block-size, writing it in a loop if the file can end up being
> large.)
>
> -tkc
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:35:04 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:35:04 +0000
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <m2hbp7herr.fsf@googlemail.com>

Michael Rudolf <spamfresser at ch3ka.de> writes:

> Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach
> in this.
>
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in
> Python:
>
>>>> def a():
> 	pass
>>>> def a(x):
> 	pass
>>>> a()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
>     a()
> TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
>
>>>> def a(x=None):
> 	if x is None:
> 		pass
> 	else:
> 		pass
>

There are a number of frameworks for function overloading out there.  FWIW,
there is actually one in the Python sandbox (for Python 3):

http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/Overload3K/

-- 
Arnaud



From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid  Tue Feb 23 15:35:53 2010
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:35:53 +0100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <4b843c2b$0$17860$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>

Hi!

> Symbolic links are available in NTFS starting with Windows Vista.

No.
Hardlink come with NTFS, and already exists in W2K (and NT with specifics utilities).

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:49:25 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:49:25 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm1f0m$v1a$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 13:59 PM, mk wrote:
> On Feb 23, 7:19 pm, Paul Rubin<no.em... at nospam.invalid>  wrote:
>
>> The code is pretty ugly.  The main problem is you end up with a password
>> that's usually 5 letters but sometimes just 4 or fewer.
>
> Well I didn't write the whole thing here, in actual use I'd write a
> loop repeating the function until I have enough characters and then
> I'd select a substring of specified length.
>
> Anything else in the code that is ugly and I should correct?

I would recommend using random.SystemRandom.choice() on a sequence of acceptable 
characters. E.g. (untested)

import random
import string


characters = string.letters + string.digits + '~!@#$%^&*()-+=,;./\?><|'
# ... or whatever.

def gen_rand_string(length):
     prng = random.SystemRandom()
     chars = []
     for i in range(length):
         chars.append(prng.choice(characters))
     return ''.join(chars)

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:53:14 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:53:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
Message-ID: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have two dicts

n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
v={1,3,7}

and I'd like to have

a=1
m=3
p=7

that is, creating some variables.

How can I do this?


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Feb 23 15:53:51 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:53:51 -0800
Subject: SMTPServerDisconnected
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi;
> I think the last main thing I have to do on my server is get a running email
> server up. Now that I've nuked sendmail and given up on postfix, I'm back to
> trying to get qmail up and running again. Of course, there are no active
> discussion lists for *any* email server, so I have to turn here for help.
> While running a script that worked perfectly well on another server to send
> an email, I get the following error:
> A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> ?/var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
> ?? 52 </head>
> ?? 53 <body>'''
> ?? 54 my_mail()
> ?? 55 print '''
> ?? 56 </body>
> my_mail = <function my_mail>
> ?/var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
> ?? 33 ? ? ? to_address = ourEmail1,
> ?? 34 ? ? ? subject = subject,
> ?? 35 ? ? ? message = message
> ?? 36 ? ).send()
> ?? 37 ? Email(
> message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
> ?/var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
> send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
> ??344 ? ? ? ? smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
> ??345 ? ? ? ? if self.smtp_server:
> ??346 ? ? ? ? ? ? smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
> ??347 ? ? ? ? else:
> ??348 ? ? ? ? ? ? smtp.connect()
> smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect of
> <smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>, self.smtp_server
> = 'localhost'
> ?/usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
> host='localhost', port=25)
> ??305 ? ? ? ? if not self.sock:
> ??306 ? ? ? ? ? ? raise socket.error, msg
> ??307 ? ? ? ? (code, msg) = self.getreply()
> ??308 ? ? ? ? if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
> ??309 ? ? ? ? return (code, msg)
> code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
> <smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
> <smtplib.SMTP instance>>
> ?/usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>)
> ??349 ? ? ? ? ? ? if line == '':
> ??350 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.close()
> ??351 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection unexpectedly
> closed")
> ??352 ? ? ? ? ? ? if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
> repr(line)
> ??353 ? ? ? ? ? ? resp.append(line[4:].strip())
> global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
> SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
> ?? ? ?args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)
> I cannot find the qmail logs. I assumed they'd be in either
> /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send
> or
> /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-smtpd
> but I find no logs there.
>
> [SSH] Protocol Version 2 (OpenSSH_4.3)
> [SSH] Cipher: aes128-cbc
> Logged in (password)
> Last login: Tue Feb 23 05:24:00 2010 from 66.248.168.67
> [beno at 13gems ~]$ su
> Password:
> [root at 13gems beno]# man netstat
> [root at 13gems beno]# netstat
> Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
> Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Foreign Address
> State
> getnameinfo failed
> tcp ? ? ? ?0 ? ?268 nrelectric.com:ssh ? ? ? ? ?[UNKNOWN]:61912
> ESTABLISHED
> Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
> Proto RefCnt Flags ? ? ? Type ? ? ? State ? ? ? ? I-Node Path
> unix ?7 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10842 ?/dev/log
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10370
> ?@/org/kernel/udev/udevd
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?6077731
> unix ?3 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? STREAM ? ? CONNECTED ? ? 6077679
> unix ?3 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? STREAM ? ? CONNECTED ? ? 6077678
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?6077675
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?11556
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?11511
> unix ?2 ? ? ?[ ] ? ? ? ? DGRAM ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10990
> [root at 13gems beno]#
>
> How do I trouble-shoot this?

Try connecting to the port that is supposed to accept mail messages
via telnet and issue a few SMTP commands.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 16:00:02 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:00:02 -0800
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
In-Reply-To: <hm19ds$mv5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hm15qd$764$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm19ds$mv5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm1fkm$47a$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/23/2010 11:14 AM, Gib Bogle wrote:
> W. eWatson wrote:
>> On 2/23/2010 8:26 AM, Rick Dooling wrote:
>>> No telling what Windows will do. :)
>>>
>>> I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
>>> tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
>>> paths instead and remove all doubt.
>>>
>>> http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html
>>>
>>> RD
>> You may be right. The actual 300 line program just reads the folder
>> without specifying any path. I'm not that familiar with os path, but
>> have seen it used.
>
> How do you invoke the program? Do you use a Command Prompt window?
IDLE, but I'm prett sure I tried it (300 lines) with Cprompt.


From guglgrupe at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 23 16:02:13 2010
From: guglgrupe at yahoo.com (Milenko Kindl)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:02:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Milenko Kindl and America's Worst French Fries
Message-ID: <fcb867fb-c922-43db-99e8-39f8aeb0340e@o8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Milenko Kindl

In spite of the name, French fries are practically an American
birthright. They?re offered as the first choice side dish with nearly
every fast-food and sit-down chain meal available. But here?s the
catch: In a recent study of 7,318 New York City patrons leaving fast
food chains during the lunch hour, researchers learned that combo meals
?meaning meals with sides?averaged 1,100 calories each, which is over
half a day?s allotment. It goes to show: When your regular meals at
these restaurants are already pushing the nutritional envelope, adding
an extra 300 (or more!) empty calories can make for a dietary
disaster.

The authors of the best-selling weight-loss series Eat This, Not That!
and Cook This, Not That! have rounded up three of the worst orders of
fries available at chain restaurants across the country. We?ve also
offered up the surprising winner of the fast food French fry cook-off?
you?ll never believe which restaurant chain produces the healthiest
fried spuds!


Worst Curly Fries
Arby?s Curly Fries (Large)
640 calories
34 g fat (5 g saturated, 0 g trans)
1,460 mg sodium

Arby?s is famous for its curly fries?too bad they?re overloaded with
fat, calories and sodium. When one side dish accounts for nearly three-
quarters of your daily allotment of salt, you know there?s a problem.
As fun as these curli-Qs are, stick to the Homefry variety at Arby?s?
downsizing to a small Curly Fries will still leave you with a 410-
calorie side, which is more than many of Arby?s sandwiches!

Bonus tip: For full nutrition information for all of your favorite
chain restaurants and thousands of foods, download the bestselling Eat
This, Not That! iPhone app. It?s like having your own personal
nutritionist in your pocket at all times, and will help you avoid the
caloric calamities and guide you to the best ways to lose your belly
fast.

Eat This Instead!
Homestyle Fries (Small)
350 calories
15 g fat (2 g saturated)
720 mg sodium


Worst Wedge Fries
Jack in the Box Bacon Cheddar Wedges
715 calories
45 g fat (13 g saturated, 1 g trans)
905 mg sodium

It doesn?t take a nutritionist to identify the hazards of a grease-
soaked, cheese-slathered sack of deep-fried potatoes, but by
appearance alone, nobody could guess what?s really at stake when you
order this side from Jack?s. The American Heart Association recommends
that people cap their trans fat intake at 1 percent of total calories.
For people on a 2,000-calorie diet, that?s about 2 grams per day. See
the problem? Another issue, of course, is the overload in calories?
about one-third your daily allotment!

Bonus tip: Cheese fries are clearly an unhealthy choice. But sometimes
healthy-seeming options are just as dangerous as the obvious diet-
sinkers. For 30 jaw-dropping examples, check out The 30 Worst
Sandwiches in America.

Eat This Instead!
Grilled Chicken Strips (4) with Fire Roasted Salsa
185 calories
2 g fat (0.5 g saturated)
805 mg sodium


Worst Fries for Your Blood Pressure
Dairy Queen Chili Cheese Fries
1,240 calories
71 g fat (28 g saturated, 0.5 g trans)
2,550 milligrams sodium

This one?s a no-brainer: Chili, cheese, fried potatoes. But even a
savvy eater couldn?t possibly anticipate how bad these 3 ingredients
could be when combined by one heavy-handed fast-food company. There?s
as much sodium in this side dish as you?ll find in 15 strips of bacon.
Stick with classic ketchup and recapture nearly a day?s worth of
sodium and 930 calories.

Bonus tip: Save calories, time, and money with our free Eat This, Not
That! newsletter. Sign up today and you?ll get the Eat This, Not That!
guide to shopping once and eating for a week for free!

Eat This Instead!
French Fries (regular)
310 calories
13 g fat (2 g saturated)
640 mg sodium


Worst Regular Order of Fries
Five Guys Fries (large)
1,464 calories
71 g fat (14 g saturated)
213 mg sodium

Unfortunately, Five Guys doesn?t offer anything but fries in the side
department. Your safest bet, of course, is to skip the fries
altogether (you?d be better off adding a second patty to your burger),
but if you can?t bring yourself to eat a burger sans fries, then split
a regular order. That will still add 310 calories to your meal, but it
beats surrendering more than 75% of your day?s calories to a greasy
paper bag.

Bonus tip: Sides account for a third of our combo-meal calories?but
drinks account for a quarter of the total calories we consume each
day! Battle the liquid bulge: Avoid all drinks on this shocking list
of The Worst Drinks in the Supermarket.

Eat This Instead!
Regular Fries (1/2 serving)
310 calories
15 g fat (3 g saturated)
45 mg sodium


Worst Fries in America
Chili?s Texas Cheese Fries w/Jalapeno Ranch
1,920 calories
147 g fat (63 g saturated)
3,580 mg sodium

The only thing that comes close to redeeming this cheesy mound of lard
and grease is the fact that it?s ostensibly meant to be shared with a
few friends. Even so, you?ll collectively be taking in an entire day?s
worth of calories, three days? allotment of saturated fat, and a day
and a half?s allotment of sodium. What?s even scarier, if you can
imagine, is that even if you try to order more sensibly and ask for
the ?half? order of Texas Cheese Fries, you?ll still receive a
disastrous dish that packs in 1,400 calories. There?s one French fries
side dish at Chili?s that?s acceptable, although even in its much-
reduced form, you?d be better off splitting it.

Bonus Tip: See what other Chili?s items made our list of The 20 Worst
Restaurant Foods in America.

Eat This Instead!
Homestyle Fries
380 calories
23 g fat (4 g saturated)
230 mg sodium


Best Fast Food Fries in America
McDonald?s Small French Fries
230 calories
11 g fat (1.5 g saturated)
160 mg sodium

Out of the big three fast food joints (Mickey D?s, Wendy?s, and BK),
you?ll find the least caloric, least salty fries underneath the golden
arches. The key to ordering a smart side dish is portion sizing?and
McDonald?s has that under control.

------------

Follow Men's Health and Women's Health editor Dave Zinczenko on
Twitter. You'll get the best life-changing health, nutrition and
exercise secrets every day.

Check out the cutting-edge guide to fast and easy weight loss, the
brand-new Big Book of Exercises.

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Get more nutrition, health, and fitness secrets from Men's Health:
Subscribe today with this special offer and save 50% off the cover
price.


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 16:10:14 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:10:14 +0000
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2d3zvhd55.fsf@googlemail.com>

vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I have two dicts
>
> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> v={1,3,7}

These are sets, not dicts.

> and I'd like to have
>
> a=1
> m=3
> p=7

As sets are unordered, you may as well have

   a = 3
   m = 7
   p = 1

or any other permutation.  You need some sequences instead.  E.g.

   n = ['a', 'm', 'p']
   v = (1, 3, 7)

Then you can do:

   for name, value in zip(n, v):
       globals()[name] = value

After this the names, 'a', 'm' and 'p' will be bound to the values you
want in the global namespace.  However, it is almost always a bad idea
to do this.  Can you explain why you need to do this?

-- 
Arnaud


From buggsy2 at sdlfkj.com  Tue Feb 23 16:11:52 2010
From: buggsy2 at sdlfkj.com (buggsy2 at sdlfkj.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:11:52 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <u635nr71j.fsf@water.ca.gov>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> writes:

> I noted that this search box has
> some sort of filter associated with it. Possibly, in my early stages
> of learning to navigate in Win7, I accidentally set the filter.
>
> Comments?

FYI, the only truly reliable and powerful file search utility I've found
for Windows is Agent Ransack (http://download.mythicsoft.com/agentran.exe)


From wuhrrr at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 16:21:36 2010
From: wuhrrr at gmail.com (Hai Vu)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:21:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ea89470b-98b6-4d22-a157-c0e3f2bf250c@w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 12:53?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have two dicts
>
> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> v={1,3,7}
>
> and I'd like to have
>
> a=1
> m=3
> p=7
>
> that is, creating some variables.
>
> How can I do this?

I think you meant to use the square brackets [ ] instead of the curly
ones { } to define the list:

>>> n = ['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> v = [3, 5, 7]
>>> for x, y in zip(n, v):
...  exec '%s=%d' % (x, y)
...
>>> a
3
>>> b
5
>>> c
7

---
The key is the use of the exec statement, which executes the strings
"a=3", "b=5", ... as if they are python statements.


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 16:23:10 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:23:10 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting [Speaker] Thursday in Mountain View, CA?
In-Reply-To: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm1h03$hul$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/23/2010 7:49 AM, W. eWatson wrote:
> Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets
> from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to
> be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?



From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Tue Feb 23 16:29:01 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:29:01 +1300
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hm15qd$764$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm19ds$mv5$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hm1fkm$47a$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm1has$4lo$1@speranza.aioe.org>

W. eWatson wrote:
> On 2/23/2010 11:14 AM, Gib Bogle wrote:
>> W. eWatson wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2010 8:26 AM, Rick Dooling wrote:
>>>> No telling what Windows will do. :)
>>>>
>>>> I am a mere hobbyist programmer, but I think real programmers will
>>>> tell you that it is a bad habit to use relative paths. Use absolute
>>>> paths instead and remove all doubt.
>>>>
>>>> http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html
>>>>
>>>> RD
>>> You may be right. The actual 300 line program just reads the folder
>>> without specifying any path. I'm not that familiar with os path, but
>>> have seen it used.
>>
>> How do you invoke the program? Do you use a Command Prompt window?
> IDLE, but I'm prett sure I tried it (300 lines) with Cprompt.

I don't know what you mean by "300 lines".  Have you opened a Command Prompt 
window, changed to the directory where you copied the files, and executed:
python your_prog.py
?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Feb 23 16:31:48 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:31:48 +0000
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B844944.1050203@mrabarnett.plus.com>

vsoler wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have two dicts
> 
> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> v={1,3,7}
> 
Those aren't dicts, they're sets.

> and I'd like to have
> 
> a=1
> m=3
> p=7
> 
> that is, creating some variables.
> 
> How can I do this?

The real question is not how, but why?

Anyway, assuming you want them to be global variables:

     globals().update(dict(zip(n, v)))

On my machine the variables didn't get the correct values because, as I
said, 'n' and 'v' are sets, so the order of the members is arbitrary.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Tue Feb 23 16:40:10 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:40:10 -0500
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <4b843c2b$0$17860$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>
References: <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b843c2b$0$17860$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002231340v7f9b05f0sb945fe72b664e177@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Michel Claveau - MVP
<enleverLesX_XXmcX at xmclavxeaux.com.invalid> wrote:
> Hi!
>
>> Symbolic links are available in NTFS starting with Windows Vista.
>
> No.
> Hardlink come with NTFS, and already exists in W2K (and NT with specifics utilities).
>
> @-salutations
> --
> Michel Claveau
>

And there's a difference between hard links and symbolic links.
Symbolic links were added to NTFS starting with Windows Vista.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365680%28VS.85%29.aspx

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 16:54:36 2010
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:54:36 +0100
Subject: How to transmit a crash report ?
In-Reply-To: <0b222aec-db04-45b7-9f86-e2839ffafc40@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <4B8336EE.9040802@gmail.com>	<mailman.86.1266892058.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<0b222aec-db04-45b7-9f86-e2839ffafc40@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B844E9C.1000706@gmail.com>

On 23-02-2010 15:21, Thomas wrote:
> On Feb 22, 9:27 pm, MRAB<pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com>  wrote:
>    
>> Stef Mientki wrote:
>>      
>>> hello,
>>>        
>>      
>>> in my python desktop applications,
>>> I'ld like to implement a crash reporter.
>>> By redirecting the sys.excepthook,
>>> I can detect a crash and collect the necessary data.
>>> Now I want that my users sends this information to me,
>>> and I can't find a good way of doing this.
>>>        
>>      
>>> The following solutions came into my mind:
>>> (most of my users are on Windows, and the programs are written in Python
>>> 2.6)
>>>        
>>      
>>> 1. mailto:
>>> doesn't work if the the user didn't install a default email client,
>>> or if the user uses a portable email client (that isn't started yet)
>>> Besides this limits the messages to small amounts of data.
>>>        
>>      
>>> 2.other mail options: smtp
>>> AFAIK such a solution needs smtp authorization, and therefor I've to put
>>> my username and password in the desktop application.
>>>        
>> Try reading the documentation for Python's smtplib module.
>>
>> You don't need to provide any password.
>>
>>
>>
>>      
>>> 3. http-post
>>> Although post is also limited in size,
>>> I could store information in cookies (don't know yet how), and cookies
>>> are sent parallel to the post message.
>>> On the server site I can use a small php script, that stores the
>>> post-data, cookies and/or send's a (long) email.
>>>        
>>      
>>> are there better options ?- Hide quoted text -
>>>        
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>>      
> Try http://code.activestate.com/recipes/442459/
>    

Apparently there's something terrible wrong on my system, because I do 
need username and password :-(

First, a script that works without username and password.
I guess it works, because the smtp_server is the smtp server of my 
provider, and I'm in that domain of my provider,
so it won't work for a random user of my program.
   if Test ( 4 ) :
     import smtplib
     from email.mime.text      import MIMEText
     from email.mime.multipart import MIMEMultipart

     body     = 'test_body'
     subject  = 'test_subject'
     mail_to  = 's.mientki at ru.nl'
     mail_from = 'stef.mientki at gmail.com'

     msg = MIMEMultipart ( 'alternative' )
     msg [ 'To'      ] = mail_to
     msg [ 'From'    ] = mail_from
     msg [ 'Subject' ] = subject

     part1 = MIMEText ( body, 'plain' )
     msg.attach ( part1 )

     smtp_server = 'mail.upcmail.nl'
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( smtp_server )
     session.sendmail ( mail_from, [mail_to], msg.as_string() )


Using smtp on google , works only if I support username and password:
   if Test ( 5 ) :
     import smtplib
     from email.mime.text      import MIMEText
     from email.mime.multipart import MIMEMultipart

     body     = 'test_body'
     subject  = 'test_subject'
     mail_to  = 's.mientki at ru.nl'
     mail_from = 'stef.mientki at gmail.com'

     msg = MIMEMultipart ( 'alternative' )
     msg [ 'To'      ] = mail_to
     msg [ 'From'    ] = mail_from
     msg [ 'Subject' ] = subject

     part1 = MIMEText ( body, 'plain' )
     msg.attach ( part1 )

     smtp_server = 'smtp.gmail.com'
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( smtp_server, 587 )
     session.ehlo ( mail_from )
     session.starttls ()
     session.ehlo ( mail_from )
     session.login (username, password )
     session.sendmail ( mail_from, [mail_to], msg.as_string() )


And her a number of different tries with localhost / mail :
   if Test ( 6 ) :
     import smtplib
     from email.mime.text      import MIMEText
     from email.mime.multipart import MIMEMultipart

     body     = 'test_body'
     subject  = 'test_subject'
     mail_to  = 's.mientki at ru.nl'
     mail_from = 'stef.mientki at gmail.com'

     msg = MIMEMultipart ( 'alternative' )
     msg [ 'To'      ] = mail_to
     msg [ 'From'    ] = mail_from
     msg [ 'Subject' ] = subject

     part1 = MIMEText ( body, 'plain' )
     msg.attach ( part1 )

     session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'localhost' )
     """
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "D:\Data_Python_25\support\mail_support.py", line 375, in <module>
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( smtp_server )
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 239, in __init__
     (code, msg) = self.connect(host, port)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 295, in connect
     self.sock = self._get_socket(host, port, self.timeout)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 273, in _get_socket
     return socket.create_connection((port, host), timeout)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\socket.py", line 514, in create_connection
     raise error, msg
error: [Errno 10061] No connection could be made because the target 
machine actively refused it
     """
     #session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'localhost', 25 )
     #session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'mail', 25 )
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'mail', 1025 )
     """
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "D:\Data_Python_25\support\mail_support.py", line 377, in <module>
     session = smtplib.SMTP ( 'mail', 1025 )
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 239, in __init__
     (code, msg) = self.connect(host, port)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 295, in connect
     self.sock = self._get_socket(host, port, self.timeout)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 273, in _get_socket
     return socket.create_connection((port, host), timeout)
   File "P:\Python26\lib\socket.py", line 500, in create_connection
     for res in getaddrinfo(host, port, 0, SOCK_STREAM):
gaierror: [Errno 11001] getaddrinfo failed
     """
     session.sendmail ( mail_from, [mail_to], msg.as_string() )


What am I doing wrong ?

cheers,
Stef

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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 23 17:26:34 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:26:34 +1100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.102.1266922612.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wry3612d.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de> writes:

> Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
> > Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
> > http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
> supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?

Why not? What do you think the TIOBE measures, and why would PHP not be
rising by that measure?

-- 
 \     ?To save the world requires faith and courage: faith in reason, |
  `\            and courage to proclaim what reason shows to be true.? |
_o__)                                                ?Bertrand Russell |
Ben Finney


From david at boddie.org.uk  Tue Feb 23 17:28:12 2010
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:28:12 +0100
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
	<hlvlom$vfk$2@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm1kps$lm8$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 05:32, Gib Bogle wrote:

> David Boddie wrote:
> 
>> I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
>> the PyQt Wiki:
>> 
>>   http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt
>> 
>> If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
>> presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
>> this problem.
>> 
>> David
> 
> Thanks David, that worked a treat.  :-)

If you could update the Wiki (or maybe the py2exe Wiki, if they have one)
to say what you did, that would be useful for others in the future. Then
they'll only be one search away from the answer. :-)

David


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 23 17:50:15 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 14:50:15 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hm0tdp$lac$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>
>Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets 
>from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to 
>be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?

Subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 17:55:21 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:55:21 +1100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4b845cfa$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 05:25, Michael Rudolf wrote:
> Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach in
> this.
> 
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in
> Python:
<snip>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
> 
>>>> def a(x=None):
>     if x is None:
>         pass
>     else:
>         pass

Python's idiom for this has always been to use "if arg is None:"; but
now with the (relatively) new decorator feature, though is not yet a
popular idiom, it is now possible to do something like this:

#!/usr/bin/env python

from functools import wraps

def overloaded(func):
    @wraps(func)
    def overloaded_func(*args, **kwargs):
        for f in overloaded_func.overloads:
            try:
                return f(*args, **kwargs)
            except TypeError:
                pass
        else:
            # it will be nice if the error message prints a list of
            # possible signatures here
            raise TypeError("No compatible signatures")

    def overload_with(func):
        overloaded_func.overloads.append(func)
        return overloaded_func

    overloaded_func.overloads = [func]
    overloaded_func.overload_with = overload_with
    return overloaded_func

#############

@overloaded
def a():
    print 'a() without args'
    pass

@a.overload_with
def _(n):
    # note that, just like property(), the function's name in
    # the "def _(n):" line can be arbitrary, the important
    # name is in the "@overloads(a)" line
    print 'a() with args'
    pass

a()
a(4)
a(4, 5) # ERROR: no matching signature



PS: I posted the code to recipe book, for future reference:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577064-simple-function-overloading-with-decorator/


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 17:56:30 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:56:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 5:53?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have two dicts
>
> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> v={1,3,7}
>
> and I'd like to have
>
> a=1
> m=3
> p=7
>
> that is, creating some variables.
>
> How can I do this?

You are probably coming from another language and you're not used to
python's data structures.
If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists. Examples:

    ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
parenthesis ()
    ['a', 'm', 'p'] ---> this is a list, and it's made with brackets
[]

Check the documentation to see the difference between tuples and
lists.
For now, lets just use lists and forget about tuples...
Now if you want a sequence of items ordered a key + value pairs, use a
dictionary, as follows:

    {'name': 'joe', 'surname': 'doe', 'age': 21} ---> this is a dict,
and it's made with curly braces {}.

Curly braces are also used to create sets, but you don't need them now
(check the documentation to learn more about sets).
So going back to your question, you should have two lists, as follows:

    n = ['a', 'm', 'p']
    v = [1,3,7]         --> note that I used brackets [], not curly
braces {}.

And now you can build a dict formed by the keys in "n" and the values
in "v":

    myDict = {}           --> this is an new empty dictionary
    for k,v in zip(n,v):
        myDict[k] = v

This results in this dictionary: {'a': 1, 'p': 7, 'm': 3}.

Hope this helps...
Luis


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 17:57:45 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:57:45 +0100
Subject: [Python-Dev] Question for you
In-Reply-To: <4B844F2E.9010300@voidspace.org.uk>
References: <36FA01F429A6354CB4C8C185B307F35503F4F080@XMBTX133.northgrum.com>
	<4B844F2E.9010300@voidspace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002231457t271163d7x1fb46157275edd24@mail.gmail.com>

>> Hello, Dave;
>>
>>    My name is Craig Connor and I am a senior s/w developer at Northrop
>> Grumman.
>>
>> I have a question for you. I have installed* Boost* (via the
>> Installer), and stored it into my
>>
>> C Drive inside a dir called:
>>
>> * C:\boost_1_42*
>>
>> I also installed the* Boost Jam* into a directory called:
>>
>> * C:\boost-jam-3.1.17*
>>
>> I am using 2 separate compilers in my* Win OS XP (SP3)*
>>
>> and I would like to be able to use the Python module of Boost
>>
>> in order to embed Python.h into my C++ compiler.
>>
>> The C++ compilers that I have are:
>>
>> o* Dev-cpp*, and
>>
>> o* Visual C++.net*  (of* MS Visual Studio.Net 2008*).
>>
>> Problem:
>>
>>    When I compile a simple program, I keep getting the error:
>> "*pyconfig.h: No such file or directory*".
>>
>> The program I am trying to start with is (below):
>>
>> *#include <iostream>*
>>
>> *#include<boost/any.hpp>*
>>
>> *#include<boost/python.hpp>*
>>
>> *using namespace std;*
>>
>> *int main( )*
>>
>> *{*
>>
>> *  cout << "Hello, Boost World!!" << endl;*
>>
>> *  boost::any a(5);*
>>
>> *  a = 7.67;*
>>
>> *  std::cout<<boost::any_cast<double>(a)<<std::endl;*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *  system( "PAUSE" );*
>>
>> *  return 0;*
>>
>> *}*
>>
>>
>> Also:
>>
>>   I did set up my environmental config to go to the Boost dir.
>>
>> Question:
>>
>>   Do you know what am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>    Craig Connor
>>
>>    720.622.2209
>>
> Hello Connor,
>
> I think you have the wrong email address - this is Python-dev, an email
> list for the development *of* Python.
>
> All the best,
>
> Michael Foord

[redirecting to python-list from python-dev]

And the fact that you are a "senior s/w developer" at Northrop Grumman
surely doesn't sound like good advertisement for said firm.

Cheers,
Daniel



-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:06:09 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>

>> >> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
>> >> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
>> >> posts to this list?
>> >
>> > I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
>> > and all but one of the mailing lists I read.
>>
>> Wait, I misread the posting.  I block everything from
>> google.groups, not everything from gmail.
>
> Yes, I did that a long time ago as well.  But now there seems to be
> more and more actual spam coming from gmail.com itself.  It may just be
> a minor blip on the spam graph but I'm keeping my eye on it.
>
> Most mailing lists that I am on are pretty good at filtering spam
> before it gets to the list.  The only spam I ever see on my NetBSD
> lists are the ones that I moderate and I block them before anyone else
> sees them.  A little more pain for me in return for a lot less pain for
> everyone else.  I guess that's not possible on a list that is gatewayed
> to UseNet like this one is.
>
> Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
> to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
> ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
> felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.

And this has to do with python programming in what way?

You, sir, are incredibly funny :)

Just 5 minutes ago you declared in a nearby thread that

> It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic.  So
> what if some members have an interest?  We have interest in a lot of
> things.  We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
> but questions about hardware are also off topic.
>
> Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
> They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
> of discussions they want to be involved in.  By spamming the group this
> way you take away that freedom of choice.  It's ironic when it is done
> in the name of freedom.

Touche!

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From monkey at joemoney.net  Tue Feb 23 18:08:19 2010
From: monkey at joemoney.net (monkeys paw)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:08:19 -0500
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>

On 2/23/2010 3:17 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
> monkeys paw wrote:
>> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
>> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
>> with the write operation?
>>
>> import urllib2
>> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
>> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
>
> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?

'wb' does the trick. Thanks all!

Here is the final working code, i used an index(i)
to see how many reads took place, i have to assume there is
a default buffer size:

import urllib2
a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
i = 0
for line in 
urllib2.urlopen('http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'):
     i = i + 1
     a.write(line)

print "Number of reads: %d" % i
a.close()


NEW QUESTION if y'all are still reading:

Is there an integer increment operation in Python? I tried
using i++ but had to revert to 'i = i + 1'

>
>> for line in urllib2.urlopen(url):
>> a.write(line)
>
> I also don't know if this "for line...a.write(line)" loop is doing
> newline translation. If it's a binary file, you should use .read()
> (perhaps with a modest-sized block-size, writing it in a loop if the
> file can end up being large.)
>
> -tkc
>
>



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:11:26 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:11:26 +1300
Subject: Writing an assembler in Python
References: <Xns9D28186AF890Cfdnbgui7uhu5h8hrnuio@127.0.0.1>
	<hlvgr3$rmr$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<da970fce-bd6b-4eb3-bb66-3ca52cc0fd4a@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm1nau$521$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <da970fce-bd6b-4eb3-bb66-3ca52cc0fd4a at k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, Anh Hai Trinh wrote:

> On Feb 23, 10:08 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>>
>> Let me suggest an alternative approach: use Python itself as the
>> assembler. Call routines in your library to output the code. That way you
>> have a language more powerful than any assembler.
>>
>> See <http://github.com/ldo/crosscode8> for an example.
> 
> SyntaxError: Non-matching "#end if" in crosscode8.py:345

What mismatch? Line 345 is the last line of this routine:

    def org(self, addr) :
        """sets the origin for defining subsequent consecutive memory contents."""
        self.curpsect.setorigin(self.follow(addr))
        self.lastaddr = self.curpsect.origin
        return self # for convenient chaining of calls
    #end org



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:18:19 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:18:19 +1300
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm1nns$5cp$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list at python.org>, mk wrote:

> I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator is
> not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:

Much simpler:

import subprocess

data, _ = subprocess.Popen \
  (
    args = ("pwgen", "-nc"),
    stdout = subprocess.PIPE
  ).communicate()
print data



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:19:13 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:19:13 +1300
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.82.1266881274.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0r5n$1ak$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm1nph$5cp$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <hm0r5n$1ak$1 at news.eternal-september.org>, Martin P. Hellwig 
wrote:

> Actually I am still waiting for Java to be mainstream :-)

Too late, I think. Sun dilly-dallied over making it open source for too 
long, until it practically didn?t matter any more.


From comptekki at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:19:41 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:19:41 -0700
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002231519t127cd512r9bc2feb294db77f2@mail.gmail.com>

<snip>

>
>
> NEW QUESTION if y'all are still reading:
>
> Is there an integer increment operation in Python? I tried
> using i++ but had to revert to 'i = i + 1'

i+=1

<snip>


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:22:05 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:22:05 +1300
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list at python.org>, Ishwor 
Gurung wrote:

> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM

Python is still faster, though. I think a key reason is that its VM supports 
reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.

So you see, it?s all about working smarter, not harder.



From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 18:25:37 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:25:37 +1300
Subject: look at the google code
References: <cdd9c65f-de38-43b8-89e1-f2a50b1f3a4c@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<711cb713-4b4a-47f6-8922-ce1ada7d64e6@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm1o5h$5cp$4@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <711cb713-4b4a-47f6-8922-ce1ada7d64e6 at e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, lkcl wrote:

> we couldn't get control of that site for quite some time so
> started using sourceforget for svn, but the issue tracker on
> sourceforget is truly dreadful.

Damn. I?ve been working on my own fork <http://github.com/ldo/dvdauthor> of
a long-neglected package on SourceForge <http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net/>.
GitHub doesn?t offer a publicly-writable bug tracker, but I was under the
impression that SourceForge did. But you?re saying it?s not worth using?


From darcy at druid.net  Tue Feb 23 18:29:23 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:29:23 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100223182923.4d259d12.darcy@druid.net>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100
Daniel Fetchinson <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:
> And this has to do with python programming in what way?

Are you new?  Meta discussions about lists are generally considered
on-topic for the list.

> You, sir, are incredibly funny :)

Yes, I am.  That however is NOT on topic.  :-)

And just to bring this back on topic, I did do a test and found that
splitting my mailbox between Python mailing list messages and Python
newsgroup messages did not indicate that that was a good barometer of
spaminess.  There are also quite a few decent posts from gmail.com so
blocking by that domain isn't going to be the problem solver either.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Feb 23 18:34:02 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:34:02 -0800
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8465EA.30706@stoneleaf.us>

monkeys paw wrote:
> NEW QUESTION if y'all are still reading:
> 
> Is there an integer increment operation in Python? I tried
> using i++ but had to revert to 'i = i + 1'

Nope, but try i += 1.

~Ethan~




From sccolbert at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:36:48 2010
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:36:48 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea61002231536h36a0cf20u2de17fef7f76f8ab@mail.gmail.com>

this image is appropriate:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pS7sKjlzwFg/SwhG1S901pI/AAAAAAAAEiw/XSm93RIY2WE/s400/kelso-burn.jpg

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Daniel Fetchinson <
fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:

> >> >> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
> >> >> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all
> gmail
> >> >> posts to this list?
> >> >
> >> > I did that a long time ago for all of the Usenet groups I read
> >> > and all but one of the mailing lists I read.
> >>
> >> Wait, I misread the posting.  I block everything from
> >> google.groups, not everything from gmail.
> >
> > Yes, I did that a long time ago as well.  But now there seems to be
> > more and more actual spam coming from gmail.com itself.  It may just be
> > a minor blip on the spam graph but I'm keeping my eye on it.
> >
> > Most mailing lists that I am on are pretty good at filtering spam
> > before it gets to the list.  The only spam I ever see on my NetBSD
> > lists are the ones that I moderate and I block them before anyone else
> > sees them.  A little more pain for me in return for a lot less pain for
> > everyone else.  I guess that's not possible on a list that is gatewayed
> > to UseNet like this one is.
> >
> > Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
> > to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
> > ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
> > felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.
>
> And this has to do with python programming in what way?
>
> You, sir, are incredibly funny :)
>
> Just 5 minutes ago you declared in a nearby thread that
>
> > It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic.  So
> > what if some members have an interest?  We have interest in a lot of
> > things.  We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
> > but questions about hardware are also off topic.
> >
> > Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
> > They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
> > of discussions they want to be involved in.  By spamming the group this
> > way you take away that freedom of choice.  It's ironic when it is done
> > in the name of freedom.
>
> Touche!
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
> --
> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:41:16 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 7:56?pm, Luis M. Gonz?lez <luis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 23, 5:53?pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I have two dicts
>
> > n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
> > v={1,3,7}
>
> > and I'd like to have
>
> > a=1
> > m=3
> > p=7
>
> > that is, creating some variables.
>
> > How can I do this?
>
> You are probably coming from another language and you're not used to
> python's data structures.
> If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists. Examples:
>
> ? ? ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
> parenthesis ()
> ? ? ['a', 'm', 'p'] ---> this is a list, and it's made with brackets
> []
>
> Check the documentation to see the difference between tuples and
> lists.
> For now, lets just use lists and forget about tuples...
> Now if you want a sequence of items ordered a key + value pairs, use a
> dictionary, as follows:
>
> ? ? {'name': 'joe', 'surname': 'doe', 'age': 21} ---> this is a dict,
> and it's made with curly braces {}.
>
> Curly braces are also used to create sets, but you don't need them now
> (check the documentation to learn more about sets).
> So going back to your question, you should have two lists, as follows:
>
> ? ? n = ['a', 'm', 'p']
> ? ? v = [1,3,7] ? ? ? ? --> note that I used brackets [], not curly
> braces {}.
>
> And now you can build a dict formed by the keys in "n" and the values
> in "v":
>
> ? ? myDict = {} ? ? ? ? ? --> this is an new empty dictionary
> ? ? for k,v in zip(n,v):
> ? ? ? ? myDict[k] = v
>
> This results in this dictionary: {'a': 1, 'p': 7, 'm': 3}.
>
> Hope this helps...
> Luis

By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
variables, you have to add them to the local namespace.
The local namespace is also a dictionary "locals()".
So you can update locals as follows:

    locals().update( myDictionary )

This way, all the key-value pairs inside myDict become free variables.
Wich is the same as declaring them as follows:

    a = 1
    p = 7

etc...

Luis





From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Feb 23 18:41:37 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:41:37 -0600
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8467B1.6010404@tim.thechases.com>

Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists. Examples:
> 
>     ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
> parenthesis ()

Actually, a tuple is made with commas...the parens are just there 
to clarify the order of operations and make it easier to read :)

   >>> x = 1,2,3
   >>> x
   (1, 2, 3)

-tkc







From nad at acm.org  Tue Feb 23 19:13:46 2010
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:13:46 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<fbe2e2101002231506s5660f20na90850eb0bf80de6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100223182923.4d259d12.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <nad-2FD591.16134623022010@news.gmane.org>

In article <20100223182923.4d259d12.darcy at druid.net>,
 "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
> And just to bring this back on topic, I did do a test and found that
> splitting my mailbox between Python mailing list messages and Python
> newsgroup messages did not indicate that that was a good barometer of
> spaminess.  There are also quite a few decent posts from gmail.com so
> blocking by that domain isn't going to be the problem solver either.

Try following the list using gmane (either via NNTP, RSS, or the web).  
gmane does a pretty good job of filtering the spam.

http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From leo.shklovskii at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 19:19:56 2010
From: leo.shklovskii at gmail.com (Leo)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:19:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: python shell crashing on paste
Message-ID: <1ede46e4-8ca1-4fe0-ad3f-7e781bbe1182@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

I just upgraded to Windows 7 (yes, I know) and I've been having a
really strange problem with running python (2.6.4, installed from the
python.org installer) from the command line.

If I open the interpreter, and then paste in a long string,
conhost.exe crashes. This doesn't happen when pasting the string just
in the command line so its something with the python interpreter.

Here's the details of the windows crash:

Log Name:      Application
Source:        Application Error
Event ID:      1000
Task Category: (100)
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
Description:
Faulting application name: conhost.exe, version: 6.1.7600.16385, time
stamp: 0x4a5bc271
Faulting module name: conhost.exe, version: 6.1.7600.16385, time
stamp: 0x4a5bc271
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x000048ca
Faulting process id: 0x1aa8
Faulting application start time: 0x01cab4e450b97766
Faulting application path: C:\Windows\system32\conhost.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\system32\conhost.exe
Report Id: 9c6afd6c-20d7-11df-bbd8-e390d387a902

Has anyone else seen anything like this? Any suggestions on how to
even start figuring this out?

--Leo


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 23 19:21:48 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 16:21:48 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list at python.org>,
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
>Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>
>Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
>increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
>posts to this list?

Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Feb 23 19:36:08 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:36:08 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.

Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
content (off-topic and unsolicited).

The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
stop the message being spam when posted here.

-- 
 \       ?Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not |
  `\            entitled to their own facts.? ?US Senator Pat Moynihan |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 19:41:35 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:41:35 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b8475df$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 11:21, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list at python.org>,
> D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 02:54:25 -0800 (PST)
>> Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> *Sorry by this message off topic, but this is too important*
>>
>> Is it just me or has the spew from gmail on this list radically
>> increased in the last week?  Anyone else considering blocking all gmail
>> posts to this list?
> 
> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.

Does being a regular poster exempts you from having your post considered
as spam? That's an
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Inverse_ad_hominem.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Feb 23 20:03:23 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:03:23 +0000
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<ff3e4cb5-2855-48e1-b3f3-726ff263852a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.03.23.109000@nowhere.com>

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 -0800, sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:

> Basically, multiprocessing is always hard--but it's less hard to start
> without shared everything.  Going with the special case (sharing
> everything, aka threading) is by far the stupider and more complex way
> to approach multiprocssing.

Multi-threading hardly shares anything (only dynamically-allocated
and global data), while everything else (the entire stack) is per-thread.

Yeah, I'm being facetious. Slightly. If you're going to write
multi-threaded code, it's a good idea to wean yourself off of using global
variables and shared mutable state. 



From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Feb 23 20:08:18 2010
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:08:18 +0000
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.08.17.453000@nowhere.com>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:22:05 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

>> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
>> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
>> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM
> 
> Python is still faster, though. I think a key reason is that its VM supports 
> reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.

So how does Python handle circular references?



From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Tue Feb 23 20:11:48 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:11:48 -0000
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<qmo6o5pu2e7j8kroju6j27fef9q0er059b@4ax.com>
	<19c11c1f-d70e-4b10-b425-6e65d4c70aeb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8lxlybsa8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:39:21 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gvero at gmail.com> wrote:

> @James I am thinkinhg about effect of errors that are within the
> sequence of P frames. Where the P frames have only the information
> about the changes in previous frames, so that errors are present until
> the next I frame. So I would like to see how is this seen in different
> GoP sized clips.

Ah, I see.  What I'd suggest you do is to encode your video clip at  
various GOP sizes (you'll want some quite extreme ones for comparison),  
then write a little program that reads in the file byte by byte and  
randomly corrupts the data as it goes through.  "tsplay" from the tstools  
suite that I mentioned earlier will do that for you (because it was very  
handy for testing the robustness of our decoders).  Then watch the results  
using VLC or similar.

My recollection is that when the image isn't static, P frames tend to have  
enough intra-coded blocks that corrupted video data doesn't have as much  
effect as you might think.  I've dealt with streams that had ten seconds  
or more between I frames, and starting at a random spot (simulating  
changing channel on your digital TV) builds up an intelligible (if  
obviously wrong) image surprisingly quickly.

PS: my first name is Rhodri, not James.  Don't worry, it catches a lot of  
people out.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:12:12 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:12:12 +1100
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
In-Reply-To: <hluigd$kag$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlubdr$lkk$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hluigd$kag$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <4b847d0c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/23/10 05:30, W. eWatson wrote:
> On 2/22/2010 8:29 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2010-02-22, W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Last night I copied a program from folder A to folder B.
>>
>> [tail of various windows breakages elided]
>>
>>> Comments?
>>
>> Switch to Linux?
>>
>> Or at least install Cygwin?
>>
> Yes, definitely not related, but maybe some W7 user has a similar
> experience here. It seems a natural place to look, since it should be
> reasonably common.

IMHO that doesn't justify.

The advice to move the discussion to a windows-specific group is not
just about reducing off-topic discussion[1], but because there isn't
that much Windows (Seven) users in this newsgroup. Most comp.lang.python
users either uses linux, unix, macs, or older version of windows, and
are not familiar with the specifics of Windows 7.

It would be nice though, if you reposted the solution you found from
another forum here to benefit other python Windows 7 users.

[1] pretty much anything computer-related is not entirely off-topic in
c.l.py because of the wide range of situations people uses python in
(I've seen general algorithmic questions, text-editor wars, problems
with 3rd party module, jython/ironpython internals, etc discussed in
here; many of those gets quite welcomed even though technically off-topic)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:15:40 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:15:40 GMT
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
	<pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<3fb9d59b-21c2-4372-9a32-c542e884faa7@x9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.15.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:48:09 -0800, Mark Dickinson wrote:

> On Feb 23, 8:11?am, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> Making spaces significant in that fashion is mind-bogglingly awful.
>> Let's look at a language that does this:
>>
>> [steve at sylar ~]$ cat ws-example.rb
>> def a(x=4)
>> ? ? x+2
>> end
>>
>> b = 1
>> print (a + b), (a+b), (a+ b), (a +b), "\n"
>>
>> [steve at sylar ~]$ ruby ws-example.rb
>> 7773
> 
> Hmm.  That's pretty nasty, all right.  Not that Python can claim to be
> immune to such behaviour:
> 
>>>> 3 .real
> 3
>>>> 3. real
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     3. real
>           ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> 
> Though the fact that one of the cases raises an exception (rather than
> silently giving some different behaviour) ameliorates things a bit.

It ameliorates it *completely* -- you won't get silent errors in Python 
because you add or delete whitespace around a dot.


"I find it amusing when novice programmers believe their main job is 
preventing programs from crashing. ... More experienced programmers 
realize that correct code is great, code that crashes could use 
improvement, but incorrect code that doesn't crash is a horrible 
nightmare."

http://www.pphsg.org/cdsmith/types.html


The edge case occurs because dot does double-duty as an operator and as 
part of float literals. However, float literals never include whitespace:

>>> 1.5
1.5
>>> 1 . 5
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    1 . 5
        ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

and likewise for 1. 5 and 1 .5 -- the only way to get a float literal 
with a decimal point is by not including whitespace in it. So there is 
never any ambiguity about floats. You can even do this:

>>> 1.5.__str__()
'1.5'


And since . is an operator outside of float literals, you can do this:

>>> import sys
>>> sys . platform
'linux2'


although why you'd want to escapes me :)

This actually is a feature, since it is useful when calling methods on 
int literals. However this is a very rare thing to do.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:30:17 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:30:17 GMT
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b841bf1$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.30.18@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:35:38 -0800, John Nagle wrote:

> The issue being discussed was scaling Python for CPUs with many cores.
> With Intel shipping 4 cores/8 hyperthread CPUs, the 6/12 part working,
> and the 8/16 part coming along, this is more than a theoretical issue.

Have you tried parallelpython?


http://www.parallelpython.com/


-- 
Steven


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:30:41 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:30:41 +1100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.24.01.08.17.453000@nowhere.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.08.17.453000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <4b848161$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 12:08, Nobody wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:22:05 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> 
>>> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
>>> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
>>> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM
>>
>> Python is still faster, though. I think a key reason is that its VM supports 
>> reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.
> 
> So how does Python handle circular references?

There is an optional garbage collector built into the interpreter. Look
at here on how it works: http://python.ca/nas/python/gc/


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:31:47 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:31:47 GMT
Subject: What's Going on between Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org> <87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.109.1266935644.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.31.48@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:34:00 -0500, Jerry Hill wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com>
> wrote:
>> So what's the bottom line? This link notion is completely at odds with
>> XP, and produces what I would call something of a mess to the unwary
>> Python/W7 user. Is there a simple solution?
> 
> I know people went off on a tangent talking about symbolic links and
> hard links, but it is extremely unlikely that you created something like
> that by accident.  Windows just doesn't create those without you doing
> quite a bit of extra work.  It certainly doesn't create them when you
> drag & drop files around through the normal interface.

I find it far more likely that Windows 7 makes it easy for the user to 
accidentally produce links rather than copies, rather than that Python 
suddenly has developed a bug where it opens a completely different file 
to the one you ask for.

But more likely still is some confusion regarding paths.

-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:38:38 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:38:38 GMT
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

>> Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
>> to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
>> ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
>> felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.
> 
> And this has to do with python programming in what way?


I think the question of whether or not comp.lang.python is being spammed, 
and if so, what we can do about it, is a good question to raise on 
comp.lang.python.

Where else do you think it should be discussed?



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 20:41:26 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 01:41:26 GMT
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals as
> follows:
> 
>     locals().update( myDictionary )

No you can't. Try it inside a function.




-- 
Steven


From m.12ahesh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:50:55 2010
From: m.12ahesh at gmail.com (all in one)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:50:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
Message-ID: <bcc035c2-bad9-4c5d-b54a-d0a20df0f6d6@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
CHECK OUR VAST PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS INCLUDING
PROJECTS FOR FREE AT
http://presentationsandseminars.blogspot.com


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 20:53:37 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:53:37 -0500
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.24.01.30.18@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b841bf1$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.30.18@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <BAB7C870-0756-4807-8A8E-CA27DB533DE6@gmail.com>


On Feb 23, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:35:38 -0800, John Nagle wrote:
> 
>> The issue being discussed was scaling Python for CPUs with many cores.
>> With Intel shipping 4 cores/8 hyperthread CPUs, the 6/12 part working,
>> and the 8/16 part coming along, this is more than a theoretical issue.
> 
> Have you tried parallelpython?
> 
> http://www.parallelpython.com/

I had not, have you used this successfully?

Thanks,

S



From magawake at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 21:00:18 2010
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:00:18 -0500
Subject: compiling python question
Message-ID: <1cbd6f831002231800gae705a9i48f781f7dec74ebe@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to compile python with Tk bindings. Do I need to do
anything special for python to detect and enable Tk?

This is mainly for matplotlib's TkAgg. It seems my compiled version of
python isn't finding the module _tkagg


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 21:03:51 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:03:51 +1300
Subject: formatting a number as percentage
References: <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm21e8$aru$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <6819f2f8-7a9e-4ea4-a936-c4e00394bd30 at g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, vsoler wrote:

> I'm trying to print .7 as 70%

Just to be perverse:

    (lambda x : (lambda s : s[:s.index(".")] + s[s.index(".") + 1:] + "%")("%.2f" % x).lstrip("0"))(.7)

:)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Feb 23 21:04:49 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 18:04:49 -0800
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hm21g1$p22$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hm0jn4$tnf$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>
>My claim is that if one creates a program in a folder that reads a file 
>in the folder it and then copies it to another folder, it will read  the 
>data file in the first folder, and not a changed file in the new folder. 
>I'd appreciate it if some w7 users could try this, and let me know what 
>they find.
>
>My experience is that if one checks the properties of the copied file, 
>it will point to the original py file and execute it and not the copy.

I've no time to verify your specific claim and have no readily available
proof for mine, but I've seen similar issues on Win7.  AFAIK, this has
nothing to do with Python.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:07:42 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:07:42 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.07.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator is
> not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:
[snip]
> (yes I know that this way generated string will not contain 'z' because
> 99/4 + 97 = 121 which is 'y')

You're worried about the security of the PRNG but then generate a TWO to 
FIVE character lowercase password with no digits, punctuation or the 
letter 'z'? That's priceless!

Python's PRNG is not suitable for producing cryptographically strong 
streams of random bytes, but it is perfectly strong enough for generating 
good passwords.



> The question is: is this secure? 

No. 

You are wasting your time trying to fix something which isn't a problem, 
and introducing a much bigger problem instead. You are MUCH MUCH MUCH 
better off with a six or ten character password taken from upper and 
lowercase letters, plus digits, plus punctuation, than a four digit 
password taken from lowercase letters only. Even if the first case has 
some subtle statistical deviation from uniformity, and the second is 
"truly random" (whatever that means), it doesn't matter.

Nobody is going to crack your password because the password generator is 
0.01% more likely to generate a "G" than a "q". But they *will* brute-
force your password if you have a four digit password taken from a-y only.



> That is, can the string generated this
> way be considered truly random? 

Define truly random.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:19:31 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:19:31 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.19.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:19:59 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
>> I need to generate passwords and I think that pseudo-random generator
>> is not good enough, frankly. So I wrote this function:... The question
>> is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this way be
>> considered truly random? (I abstract from not-quite-perfect nature of
>> /dev/urandom at the moment; I can always switch to /dev/random which is
>> better)
> 
> urandom is fine and the entropy loss from the numeric conversions and
> eliminating 'z' in that code before you get letters out is not too bad.

What?

You're going from a possible alphabet of 62 (excluding punctuation) or 94 
(inc punctuation available on an American keyboard) distinct letters down 
to 25, and you say that's "not too bad"?

Paul, if you were anyone else, I'd be sneering uncontrollably about now, 
but you're not clueless about cryptography, so what have I missed? Why is 
reducing the number of distinct letters by more than 50% anything but a 
disaster? This makes the task of brute-forcing the password exponentially 
easier.

Add the fact that the passwords are so short (as little as two characters 
in my tests) and this is about as far from secure as it is possible to be.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:21:41 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:21:41 GMT
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.115.1266939457.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b841bf1$0$1632$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.30.18@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.148.1266976426.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.21.41@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:53:37 -0500, ssteinerX at gmail.com wrote:

>> Have you tried parallelpython?
>> 
>> http://www.parallelpython.com/
> 
> I had not, have you used this successfully?

Not personally, no.



-- 
Steven


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 21:22:46 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:22:46 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 12:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
> 
>>> Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
>>> to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
>>> ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
>>> felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.
>>
>> And this has to do with python programming in what way?
> 
> 
> I think the question of whether or not comp.lang.python is being spammed, 
> and if so, what we can do about it, is a good question to raise on 
> comp.lang.python.
> 
> Where else do you think it should be discussed?

comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion


From george.sakkis at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 21:26:21 2010
From: george.sakkis at gmail.com (George Sakkis)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:26:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.111.1266936500.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dd162444-4788-4d6c-b30a-04ae32faf1dc@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 3:49?pm, mk <mrk... at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this:
>
> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav...
>
> This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword "Java" appears.
>
> Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now:
>
> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh...

This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other
countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g.
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23&l=

George


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 21:39:53 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:39:53 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.19.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xbpff8ih2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
> Paul, if you were anyone else, I'd be sneering uncontrollably about now, 
> but you're not clueless about cryptography, so what have I missed? Why is 
> reducing the number of distinct letters by more than 50% anything but a 
> disaster? This makes the task of brute-forcing the password exponentially 
> easier.

Reducing the number of distinct letters by 50% decreases the entropy per
character by 1 bit.  That stuff about mixing letters and digits and
funny symbols just makes the password a worse nuisance to remember and
type, for a small gain in entropy that you can compute and make up for.
The main thing you have to make sure is that the min-entropy is
sufficient for your purposes, and it's generally more convenient to do
that by making the password a little bit longer than by imposing
contortions on the person typing it.  Ross Anderson's "Security
Engineering" chapter about passwords is worth reading too:

  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/SE-03.pdf

When I mentioned entropy loss to the OP though, I mostly meant loss from
getting rid of the letter z.  The (binary) Shannon entropy of the
uniform probability distribution on 26 letters is 4.7004397 bits; on 25
letters, it's 4.6438561 bits.  The difference isn't enough to give an
attacker that much advantage.

I like the diceware approach to passphrase generation and I've been
using it for years.  www.diceware.com explains it in detail and the docs
there are quite well-thought-out and informative.  Keep in mind that the
entropy needed for an online password (attacker has to make a server
query for every guess, and hopefully gets locked out after n wrong
tries) and an offline one (attacker has something like a hash of the
password and can run a completely offline search) are different.

Here is a program that I use sometimes:

    from math import log
    dictfile = '/usr/share/dict/words'

    def genrandom(nbytes):
        with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
            return int(f.read(nbytes).encode('hex'), 16)

    def main():
        wordlist = list(x.strip() for x in open(dictfile) if len(x) < 7)
        nwords = len(wordlist)
        print "%d words, entropy=%.3f bits/word"% (
            nwords, log(nwords, 2))
        print '-'.join(wordlist[genrandom(10)%nwords] for i in xrange(6))

    main()


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:40:13 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:40:13 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:

> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this
> way be considered truly random?

Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I 
presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer 
to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.

This isn't a sophisticated statistical test, it's the equivalent of a 
back-of-the-envelope calculation: I generated 100,000 random strings with 
your code, and counted how often each letter appears:

If the letters are uniformly distributed, you would expect all the 
numbers to be quite close, but instead they range from 15063 to 25679:

{'a': 15063, 'c': 20105, 'b': 15100, 'e': 25465, 'd': 25458, 'g': 25597, 
'f': 25589, 'i': 25045, 'h': 25679, 'k': 22945, 'j': 25531, 'm': 16187, 
'l': 16252, 'o': 16076, 'n': 16012, 'q': 16069, 'p': 16119, 's': 16088, 
'r': 16087, 'u': 15951, 't': 16081, 'w': 16236, 'v': 15893, 'y': 15834, 
'x': 15956}

Eye-balling it, it looks vaguely two-humped, one hump around 15-16K, the 
second around 22-25K. Sure enough, here's a quick-and-dirty graph:

a  | ***********************************
b  | ***********************************
c  | ***********************************************
d  | ***********************************************************
e  | ***********************************************************
f  | ************************************************************
g  | ************************************************************
h  | ************************************************************
i  | ***********************************************************
j  | ************************************************************
k  | ******************************************************
l  | **************************************
m  | **************************************
n  | *************************************
o  | **************************************
p  | **************************************
q  | **************************************
r  | **************************************
s  | **************************************
t  | **************************************
u  | *************************************
v  | *************************************
w  | **************************************
x  | *************************************
y  | *************************************


The mean of the counts is 19056.72, and the mean deviation is 3992.28. 
While none of this is statistically sophisticated, it does indicate to me 
that your function is nowhere even close to uniform. It has a very strong 
bias.



-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 21:41:59 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:41:59 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7x7hq38idk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
> Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I 
> presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer 
> to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.

That is a good point, the way those letters are generated (through the
decimal conversion stuff), they won't be all that uniform.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 21:43:05 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 02:43:05 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:40:13 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:
> 
>> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this
>> way be considered truly random?
> 
> Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I
> presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer
> to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.

Er, they don't *look* uniformly distributed.

(Of course, being random, perhaps they are and I just got unlucky.)


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 21:50:52 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:50:52 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
>> You might look at the sitewww.diceware.comfor an approach to this,
>> which you can implement with a program. ?The docs there are pretty
>> thoughtful and may help you understand the relevant issues.
>
> Thanks. But I would also be grateful for indicating what is wrong/ugly
> in my code.

The stuff about converting 4 random bytes to a decimal string and then
peeling off 2 digits at a time is pretty awful, and notice that since
2**32 is 4294967296, in the cases where you get 10 digits, the first
2-digit pair is never higher than 42.  There are also some effects on
the lower digits.  The total entropy loss probably isn't fatal but as
described, it's ugly.

I'd write your code something like this:

    nletters = 5

    def randomword(n):
        with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
            return ''.join([chr(ord('a')+ord(c)%26) for c in f.read(n)])

    print randomword(nletters)

I wouldn't rely on a 5 letter combination for a high security
application, but it might be ok for some low security purposes.  Two
random 5-letter combinations separated by a hyphen will be much better,
and is probably easier to type than a solid block of 10 letters.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 21:52:23 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:52:23 -0600
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>	<hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <hm249m$pa$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 20:22 , Lie Ryan wrote:
> On 02/24/10 12:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:06:09 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:
>>
>>>> Hmm.  I wonder if all the spam is coming from the NG side.  I'll have
>>>> to look at that.  One of the reasons that I stopped reading UseNet over
>>>> ten years ago was because of the diminishinig S/N ratio.  I have always
>>>> felt that it was a mistake to gateway this group.
>>>
>>> And this has to do with python programming in what way?
>>
>>
>> I think the question of whether or not comp.lang.python is being spammed,
>> and if so, what we can do about it, is a good question to raise on
>> comp.lang.python.
>>
>> Where else do you think it should be discussed?
>
> comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion

Which doesn't exist and never will. Sorry, but meta-discussions about the group 
are typically on-topic for all groups with some few exceptions (e.g. 
non-discussion, binary-only groups with associated .d groups, for instance).

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 22:09:36 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:09:36 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hm25a0$314$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 20:43 , Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:40:13 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:
>>
>>> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this
>>> way be considered truly random?
>>
>> Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I
>> presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer
>> to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.
>
> Er, they don't *look* uniformly distributed.
>
> (Of course, being random, perhaps they are and I just got unlucky.)

You'd have to be very, *very* unlucky to get a sample of that size so far from 
uniformly distributed if the generating process actually were uniform.

Of course, uniformity isn't really necessary. You just need enough entropy in 
the distribution (amongst other things like protection of the seed from being 
known or guessed). A skewed distribution of characters is perfectly fine 
provided that you had enough characters in the password to meet the desired 
entropy requirement. A skewed distribution does require more characters to meet 
a specified entropy requirement than a uniform distribution, of course.

That said, for a naive strategy like "pick an independent random character, 
repeat", you should just use a uniform distribution. It makes the analysis 
easier. Worthwhile generators that give skewed distributions usually do so for a 
good reason, like generating pronounceable passwords.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 22:41:26 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:41:26 +1100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.151.1266981003.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.151.1266981003.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b84a006$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 14:09, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-23 20:43 , Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:40:13 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:36:02 +0100, mk wrote:
>>>
>>>> The question is: is this secure? That is, can the string generated this
>>>> way be considered truly random?
>>>
>>> Putting aside the philosophical question of what "truly random" means, I
>>> presume you mean that the letters are uniformly distributed. The answer
>>> to that is, they don't like uniformly distributed.
>>
>> Er, they don't *look* uniformly distributed.
>>
>> (Of course, being random, perhaps they are and I just got unlucky.)
> 
> You'd have to be very, *very* unlucky to get a sample of that size so
> far from uniformly distributed if the generating process actually were
> uniform.
> 
> Of course, uniformity isn't really necessary. You just need enough
> entropy in the distribution (amongst other things like protection of the
> seed from being known or guessed). A skewed distribution of characters
> is perfectly fine provided that you had enough characters in the
> password to meet the desired entropy requirement. A skewed distribution
> does require more characters to meet a specified entropy requirement
> than a uniform distribution, of course.
> 
> That said, for a naive strategy like "pick an independent random
> character, repeat", you should just use a uniform distribution. It makes
> the analysis easier. Worthwhile generators that give skewed
> distributions usually do so for a good reason, like generating
> pronounceable passwords.

If an attacker knows the that the random number generator have an
extreme skew and he knows the distribution of the letters, how much
advantage would it give the attacker? My initial guess is that the more
skewed the letters are, the better the advantage, since an attacker
using brute-force can write his program to prefer the most likely letters?


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 22:47:22 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals as
> > follows:
>
> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>
> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>
> --
> Steven

Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead.
Although I don't know if it would be a good practice...

Luis


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Tue Feb 23 22:51:53 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:51:53 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.151.1266981003.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b84a006$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xwry39tpi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lie Ryan <lie.1296 at gmail.com> writes:
> If an attacker knows the that the random number generator have an
> extreme skew and he knows the distribution of the letters, how much
> advantage would it give the attacker? My initial guess is that the more
> skewed the letters are, the better the advantage, since an attacker
> using brute-force can write his program to prefer the most likely letters?

A useable (conservative) estimate is that the attacker's workload is 1/p
where p is the probability of the most likely password.  That basically
says the password strength can be measured by the min-entropy.
Cryptographers often use that approach.  If you want to be more precise,
you can do a conditional probability calculation assuming the attacker
works down the list of possible passwords in order of decreasing
probability, stopping when they hit the right one.

More generally still, passwords regardless of their entropy content are
a sucky way to encapsulate cryptographic secrets.  We keep using them
because every alternative has drawbacks of its own.


From rpdooling at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 22:53:03 2010
From: rpdooling at gmail.com (Rick Dooling)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Verifying My Troublesome Linkage Claim between Python and Win7
References: <hm0jn4$tnf$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<574f6097-62f4-4bef-ad96-7185c8b872b1@c2g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<hm1930$mgs$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <db689832-4128-43d0-9b1b-51b82db725e3@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 1:08?pm, Gib Bogle <g.bo... at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:

> It isn't useful to respond to a serious question with OS bigotry.

Okay, I'll go with what Aahz said:

> I've seen similar issues on Win7.
> AFAIK, this has nothing to do with Python.


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Tue Feb 23 23:09:18 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:09:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.150.1266979970.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm28pe$sj0$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-24, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

>> comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion
>
> Which doesn't exist and never will. Sorry, but
> meta-discussions about the group are typically on-topic for
> all groups with some few exceptions (e.g.  non-discussion,
> binary-only groups with associated .d groups, for instance).

Since now we are discussing meta-discussions, is this now a
meta-meta-discussion?

-- 
Grant





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Feb 23 23:15:31 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 04:15:31 GMT
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
>> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
>> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals
>> > as follows:
>>
>> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>>
>> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>>
>> --
>> Steven
> 
> Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I don't
> know if it would be a good practice...

Er, how does using globals change the local variables?



-- 
Steven


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 23:16:37 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:16:37 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
In-Reply-To: <hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B84A825.1030407@invalid.com>

On 2/23/2010 2:50 PM, Aahz wrote:
> In article<hm0tdp$lac$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
> W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets
>>from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to
>> be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?
>
> Subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

Thanks. I'd appreciate it if you tell me what topic is. I belong to too 
many mail lists. Thursday will be my first meeting. Perhaps I'll change 
my mind about ML after a meeting. Can you describe anything more than 
the topic? Do they have books, videos, tutorials (live), casual Q/A, 
person-to-person chat before the speaker?


From wolftracks at invalid.com  Tue Feb 23 23:16:51 2010
From: wolftracks at invalid.com (W. eWatson)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:16:51 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
In-Reply-To: <hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm297n$up6$2@news.eternal-september.org>

On 2/23/2010 2:50 PM, Aahz wrote:
> In article<hm0tdp$lac$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
> W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets
>>from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to
>> be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?
>
> Subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

Thanks. I'd appreciate it if you tell me what topic is. I belong to too 
many mail lists. Thursday will be my first meeting. Perhaps I'll change 
my mind about ML after a meeting. Can you describe anything more than 
the topic? Do they have books, videos, tutorials (live), casual Q/A, 
person-to-person chat before the speaker?


From luismgz at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 23:44:10 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:44:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 1:15?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> >> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> >> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> >> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals
> >> > as follows:
>
> >> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>
> >> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>
> >> --
> >> Steven
>
> > Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I don't
> > know if it would be a good practice...
>
> Er, how does using globals change the local variables?
>
> --
> Steven

Hmmm.... well, you tell me!
As I said, I don't know if this is the recomended way...

Luis


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Tue Feb 23 23:48:59 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:48:59 +1300
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.40.12@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.43.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.151.1266981003.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b84a006$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> <7xwry39tpi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hm2b3s$g4e$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <7xwry39tpi.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Paul Rubin wrote:

> More generally still, passwords regardless of their entropy content are
> a sucky way to encapsulate cryptographic secrets.

They?re a shared secret. How else would you represent a shared secret, if 
not with a shared secret?


From loudoillond522 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 00:27:52 2010
From: loudoillond522 at gmail.com ("Lou " Shy Amateur Strips)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:27:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: %%% daughter fucked her x-boy friend in front of her father  %%% " 
	FREE Live shows also available"
Message-ID: <8895961a-dec1-4e4e-95a5-0b116fbec24c@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

%%% daughter fucked her x-boy friend in front of her father  %%% "
FREE Live shows also available"

http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 01:03:41 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Feb 2010 22:03:41 -0800
Subject: Bay Area PUG Meeting Thursday in Mountain View, CA
References: <hm0tdp$lac$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hm1m37$aqf$1@panix5.panix.com> <4B84A825.1030407@invalid.com>
Message-ID: <hm2fft$k5u$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4B84A825.1030407 at invalid.com>,
W. eWatson <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:
>On 2/23/2010 2:50 PM, Aahz wrote:
>> In article<hm0tdp$lac$1 at news.eternal-september.org>,
>> W. eWatson<wolftracks at invalid.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone here going to the meeting,Subject? As far as I can tell, it meets
>>>from 7:30 to 9 pm. Their site shows no speaker yet, and there seems to
>>> be an informal group dinner at 6 pm at some place yet unknown. Comments?
>>
>> Subscribe to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>Thanks. I'd appreciate it if you tell me what topic is. I belong to too 
>many mail lists. Thursday will be my first meeting. Perhaps I'll change 
>my mind about ML after a meeting. Can you describe anything more than 
>the topic? Do they have books, videos, tutorials (live), casual Q/A, 
>person-to-person chat before the speaker?

Sorry, I don't know offhand; using the mailing list is your best bet.
(BayPIGgies is usually not a high-traffic list.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From mattbarkan at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 01:07:48 2010
From: mattbarkan at gmail.com (MattB)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hlp9ju$o2d$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b807791$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <99bd0874-3462-4bb3-8c3c-54b73c88f9a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 20, 7:00?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:28:16 +0000, Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> > On 02/20/10 00:20, MattB wrote:
> > <cut>
>
> >> Also, based on Martin's comment, I just wanted to make you all aware
> >> that I intend no misuse, but rather am just trying to learn, as I'm a
> >> programming noob.
> > <cut>
> > It wasn't my intention to imply that, rather the opposite, that if some
> > BOFH would see your action as misuse (some admins are pretty trigger
> > happy), you would expect them to contact you directly (I would). Even
> > though you are on a wireless there are ways to track you down. For
> > example I would search my log to see if I can make an association
> > between a login to one of my servers and your mac address.
>
> This may be what you would do, but in my experience, it is more likely
> that the admin would be far too busy and/or lazy to try to track you down
> unless (1) they wanted to give you a warning prior to expulsion, or (2)
> they needed to know who you were prior to laying charges.
>
> In my experience they're far more likely to just hit the problem with a
> hammer by blocking you as much as is technically possible.
>
> > BTW, I always followed the philosophy that learning is much more fun if
> > you can brake/blow something up. Thus on my networks all students had a
> > lot of freedom to do whatever they think was appropriate but they where
> > aware that every action on my network was monitored and logged.
>
> Unfortunately this is the exception rather than the rule, I think.
>
> --
> Steven

All -- problem solved.  Following Lie's suggestions, and the links
from those pages, I went hunting around in my /library/preferences/
SystemConfiguration/.  I opened all of the 6 or 7 files that were in
there, and all looked as if they contained info directly related to my
airport card -- networks, server names, etc.  So I copied them to a
backup folder and then deleted them. Then I rebooted.

Then I opened IDLE and was able to raise URLs again.  I'm not sure
what it was about those files (or maybe a specific one) -- does anyone
have any ideas?

Thanks for your help and suggestions while I tried to figure this out.


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 24 01:31:59 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:31:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The future of "frozen" types as the number of CPU cores increases
References: <4b7af8ba$0$1630$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<4b7d97dc$0$1587$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> 
	<1fdbcbf0-79c4-4f93-9e0f-92ee29aebe6c@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b809d57$0$1596$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<31029472-0e50-428c-b657-edfbd8be9e3b@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<4b83383b$0$1622$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<ff3e4cb5-2855-48e1-b3f3-726ff263852a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.03.23.109000@nowhere.com>
Message-ID: <6d75d20c-4028-42ef-9c45-ad118e315139@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 23, 8:03?pm, Nobody <nob... at nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:27:54 -0800, sjdevn... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > Basically, multiprocessing is always hard--but it's less hard to start
> > without shared everything. ?Going with the special case (sharing
> > everything, aka threading) is by far the stupider and more complex way
> > to approach multiprocssing.
>
> Multi-threading hardly shares anything (only dynamically-allocated
> and global data), while everything else (the entire stack) is per-thread.
>
> Yeah, I'm being facetious. Slightly.

I'm afraid I may be missing the facetiousness here.

The only definitional difference between threads and processes is that
threads share memory, while processes don't.

There are often other important practical implementation details, but
sharing memory vs not sharing memory is the key theoretical
distinction between threads and processes.  On most platforms, whether
or not you want to share memory (and abandon memory protection wrt the
rest of the program) is the key factor a programmer should consider
when deciding between threads and processes--the only time that's not
true is when the implementation forces ancillary details upon you.


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid  Wed Feb 24 01:41:50 2010
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:41:50 +0100
Subject: python shell crashing on paste
References: <1ede46e4-8ca1-4fe0-ad3f-7e781bbe1182@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b84ca31$0$15832$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>

Hi! 

Where (directory) are you, when the problem come?
Have you try with UAC disabled?

@+
--  
MCI





From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 02:08:19 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 07:08:19 GMT
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:44:10 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> On Feb 24, 1:15?am, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>> > On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
>> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>> >> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
>> >> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
>> >> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update
>> >> > locals as follows:
>>
>> >> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>>
>> >> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Steven
>>
>> > Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I
>> > don't know if it would be a good practice...
>>
>> Er, how does using globals change the local variables?
>>
>> --
>> Steven
> 
> Hmmm.... well, you tell me!

I'm not the one that said you can update locals! You said it. I said you 
can't, because you *can't*. The docs warn that you can't change locals, 
and if you try it, you will see that the docs are right.


>>> def test():
...     x = 1
...     locals().update(x = 2)
...     print x
...
>>>
>>> test()
1





> As I said, I don't know if this is the recomended way...

It's not recommended because it doesn't work.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 02:11:01 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 07:11:01 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.19.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<7xbpff8ih2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.24.07.11.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:39:53 -0800, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>> Paul, if you were anyone else, I'd be sneering uncontrollably about
>> now, but you're not clueless about cryptography, so what have I missed?
>> Why is reducing the number of distinct letters by more than 50%
>> anything but a disaster? This makes the task of brute-forcing the
>> password exponentially easier.
> 
> Reducing the number of distinct letters by 50% decreases the entropy per
> character by 1 bit.  

You say that as if 1 bit of entropy isn't much :)

Given a random six character password taken out of an alphabet of 52 
characters, it takes over nine billion attempts to brute force it. 
Reducing the alphabet by 50% cuts that down to less than 200 million. To 
make up for that loss of 1 bit of entropy, you need two extra characters 
in your password.


> That stuff about mixing letters and digits and
> funny symbols just makes the password a worse nuisance to remember and
> type, for a small gain in entropy that you can compute and make up for.

Well, everybody has their own ways of remembering passwords, and I'd much 
prefer to remember an eight character password with "funny symbols" that 
I chose myself, than a six character password with nothing but letters 
that was chosen for me.

Of course, I flatter myself that I know how to choose good passwords, and 
I hate remembering long random strings even from a reduced alphabet (e.g. 
I hate memorizing eight digit phone numbers, and am completely incapable 
of remembering ten digit mobile phone numbers).



-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 02:58:30 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:58:30 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.02.19.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<7xbpff8ih2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.11.02@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xljejgj4p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
> Given a random six character password taken out of an alphabet of 52 
> characters, it takes over nine billion attempts to brute force it. 
> Reducing the alphabet by 50% cuts that down to less than 200 million. To 
> make up for that loss of 1 bit of entropy, you need two extra characters 
> in your password.

One extra character comes pretty close (within 1.3 bits).  Even two
extra chars is probably (subjective) easier for a user to deal with than
a completely random mixture of upper/lower case.  You don't get the
extra bit per character if that distribution is anything other than
random, of course.

For something like a web password (each guess takes a server hit), where
the resource guarded is not very valuable, 5 chars is probably enough
for most purposes.  For something like an encryption key subject to
offline attacks, 6 mixed-case characters will barely slow a real
attacker down.

As before, my suggestion is still diceware.  I've used random
alphanumerics in the past but they're too big a hassle, they have to be
written down, etc.  

And of course, if you're doing something serious, use a hardware token.


From danijel.gvero at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 03:28:12 2010
From: danijel.gvero at gmail.com (DANNY)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:28:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: MODULE FOR I, P FRAME
References: <op.u7zkzuq2a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<e923f57d-482e-4e3c-9483-23a6b7b1b125@q27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u76xvne1a8ncjz@gnudebst>
	<52e7499a-9389-4cfc-8d1b-34c1c3c68cac@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<60tpn5tts8mq2v47lchuqcg7ffceu4d94l@4ax.com>
	<51901a8c-8f80-4e78-98ce-75d6b521ecc5@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<rgt0o59igk3uu0f8c0o5252p0kl21jcr9f@4ax.com>
	<0db2e6a3-dbad-43d5-b1e4-362b200ebc6a@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<qmo6o5pu2e7j8kroju6j27fef9q0er059b@4ax.com>
	<19c11c1f-d70e-4b10-b425-6e65d4c70aeb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<op.u8lxlybsa8ncjz@gnudebst>
Message-ID: <3299bfaf-e8d9-4340-a339-e8a8d31c2fa9@f42g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 3:11?am, "Rhodri James" <rho... at wildebst.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:39:21 -0000, DANNY <danijel.gv... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > @James I am thinkinhg about effect of errors that are within the
> > sequence of P frames. Where the P frames have only the information
> > about the changes in previous frames, so that errors are present until
> > the next Iframe. So I would like to see how is this seen in different
> > GoP sized clips.
>
> Ah, I see. ?What I'd suggest you do is to encode your video clip at ?
> various GOP sizes (you'll want some quite extreme ones for comparison), ?
> then write a little program that reads in the file byte by byte and ?
> randomly corrupts the data as it goes through. ?"tsplay" from the tstools ?
> suite that I mentioned earlier will do that for you (because it was very ?
> handy for testing the robustness of our decoders). ?Then watch the results ?
> using VLC or similar.
>
> My recollection is that when the image isn't static, P frames tend to have ?
> enough intra-coded blocks that corrupted video data doesn't have as much ?
> effect as you might think. ?I've dealt with streams that had ten seconds ?
> or more between I frames, and starting at a random spot (simulating ?
> changing channel on your digital TV) builds up an intelligible (if ?
> obviously wrong) image surprisingly quickly.
>
> PS: my first name is Rhodri, not James. ?Don't worry, it catches a lot of ?
> people out.
>
> --
> Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses

Well for my simulation of errors I am thinking on using the WANem
(Wide Area Netwrok Emulator) which has a function to simulate dellay,
jitter etc.. http://wanem.sourceforge.net/
I have been downloading the clips from youtube and I surprisengly saw
that I frame occures after 300 frames(at 15fps-so that means after 20
seconds)! That was quite unusal for my perception of the purpose of I
frame, but then I figured out that (as you mentioned) P frames include
intra-coded blocks which hide the effect of the errors.

The goal of my project is to make a program which plays the corrupted
video after being out thru error concealment, and in case when errors
overcome some threshold error value the program doesn't paly any more
frames until the I frame occures and then I would figure out the
optimal threshold value for the different GoP sizes as well as
different content of the clip.


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 03:33:44 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:33:44 +1300
Subject: ANN: Pyrex 0.9.8.6
Message-ID: <mailman.200.1267051726.4577.python-announce-list@python.org>

Pyrex 0.9.8.6 is now available:

   http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/

Numerous bug fixes and a few improvements. See the CHANGES
page on the web site for details.


What is Pyrex?
--------------

Pyrex is a language for writing Python extension modules.
It lets you freely mix operations on Python and C data, with
all Python reference counting and error checking handled
automatically.


From baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 03:37:19 2010
From: baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com (Baptiste Lepilleur)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:37:19 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
Message-ID: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>

I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
search while they have a doc string:

http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=gzopen
http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html?highlight=tarfile#tarfile.TarFile

See script at the end for list of class methods.

Is this "by design" or is there some an odd bug in doc generation lurking
around? This somehow seem to be specific to module tarfile. Fraction
classmethod from_float() is available in the documentation and found by a
search for example...

---
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71605, Apr 14 2009, 22:40:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import tarfile
>>> help( tarfile.TarFile.gzopen )
Help on method gzopen in module tarfile:

gzopen(cls, name, mode='r', fileobj=None, compresslevel=9, **kwargs) method
of __builtin__.type instance
    Open gzip compressed tar archive name for reading or writing.
    Appending is not allowed.

>>> help( tarfile.TarFile.bz2open )
Help on method bz2open in module tarfile:

bz2open(cls, name, mode='r', fileobj=None, compresslevel=9, **kwargs) method
of __builtin__.type instance
    Open bzip2 compressed tar archive name for reading or writing.
    Appending is not allowed.

>>> help( tarfile.TarInfo.create_pax_global_header )
Help on method create_pax_global_header in module tarfile:

create_pax_global_header(cls, pax_headers) method of __builtin__.type
instance
    Return the object as a pax global header block sequence.

Baptiste.
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From kidhvfhgi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 03:58:46 2010
From: kidhvfhgi at gmail.com (hhuifhiu ijuihuh)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:58:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Watch nude girls fucking and sucking the cocks. Girls shaving their 
	pussies,
	boys giving shots on   the pussies and licking them. Also watch 
	girls getting fucked on a car roof, a girl banged by a gang   of four 
	members. At the end the girl collect
Message-ID: <3b25b8ae-1917-43ce-b3fa-098a83e41ad5@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Watch nude girls fucking and sucking the cocks. Girls shaving their
pussies, boys giving shots on

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mens penis in her mouth and

swallows it.


http://sites.google.com/site/niceglamourz

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From dieter at handshake.de  Wed Feb 24 04:11:25 2010
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 10:11:25 +0100
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>
	<pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <x7eikb80ci.fsf@handshake.de>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes on 22 Feb 2010 06:07:05 GMT:
> ...
> It's *especially* not safe if you put nothing in the globals dict, 
> because Python kindly rectifies that by putting the builtins into it:
> 
> >>> eval("__builtins__.keys()", {}, {})
> ['IndexError', 'all', 'help', 'vars', ... 'OverflowError']
> 
> 
> >>> eval("globals()", {}, {})
> {'__builtins__': {...}}
> >>>
> >>> eval("globals()", {'__builtins__': None}, {})
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
>   File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
> NameError: name 'globals' is not defined
> 
> So {'__builtins__': None} is safer than {}. Still not safe, exactly, but 
> safer. Or at least you make the Black Hats work harder before they own 
> your server :)

Using functionality introduced with the class/type homogenization,
it is quite easy to get access to the "file" type (even when "__builtins__"
is disabled). Having "file", arbitrary files can be read, written, destroyed...


Dieter


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Feb 24 04:15:17 2010
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:15:17 +0100
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
Message-ID: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Hi!

I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:

  while(rq = get_request(..)) {
     handle_request(rq);
  }

Currently I'm doing

  while True:
      rq = get_request(...)
      if not rq:
          break
      handle_request(rq)

in Python 2.6. Any suggestions how to rewrite that?

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 24 04:17:23 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:17:23 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <4B84EEA3.2090104@sequans.com>

Arnaud Delobelle wrote:
> lallous <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> writes:
>
>   
>> Hello
>>
>> How can I do something similar to pure virtual functions in C++ ?
>>
>> Let us consider this:
>>
>> class C1:
>>
>>     # Pure virtual
>>     def cb(self, param1, param2):
>>         """
>>         This is a callback
>>
>>         @param param1: ...
>>         @param param2: ...
>>         """
>>         raise NotImplementedError, "Implement me"
>>     
>
> Why define it if it is virtual?
>   

Slightly off topic but this is often useful when writing interfaces. You 
can then properly document what should any subclass (interface 
implemention) be doing.
The thing is that in case of virtual methods, you *do want* to raise the 
notImplemented exceptions, meaning you've failed to implement all the 
required methods.
Strange thing that the OP want to silently call nothing at all when 
calling a virtual method, he looses all the benefits from a virtual design.
Anyway, I don't deal into code optimization, this is not healthy :-)

JM


From nandini.sharma84 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 04:18:18 2010
From: nandini.sharma84 at gmail.com (nandini)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 01:18:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why One Should Go for Online Tech Support
Message-ID: <adc0a576-3a2b-46c8-9e91-93e060b3cbfe@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>



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From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 05:07:00 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:07:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <1909640d-b6d2-43df-bcee-ae523d92f3bc@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>



Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:
>
>   while(rq = get_request(..)) {
>      handle_request(rq);
>   }
>
> Currently I'm doing
>
>   while True:
>       rq = get_request(...)
>       if not rq:
>           break
>       handle_request(rq)
>
> in Python 2.6. Any suggestions how to rewrite that?
>

This is the common idiom.

--
Arnaud


From lars at gustaebel.de  Wed Feb 24 05:14:24 2010
From: lars at gustaebel.de (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gust=E4bel?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:14:24 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
> I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
> TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
> search while they have a doc string:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=gzopen
> http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html?highlight=tarfile#tarfile.TarFile
> 
> See script at the end for list of class methods.
> 
> Is this "by design" or is there some an odd bug in doc generation lurking
> around? This somehow seem to be specific to module tarfile. Fraction
> classmethod from_float() is available in the documentation and found by a
> search for example...

First of all, Python's module documentation is not generated from module
docstrings, each module has its own rst text file in the documentation tree
instead.

But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class has
three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
does many more other high-level things as well.

Regards,

-- 
Lars Gust?bel
lars at gustaebel.de

I do not care to belong to a club that
accepts people like me as members.
(Groucho Marx)


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 24 05:21:36 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:21:36 +0100
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:
> 
>   while(rq = get_request(..)) {
>      handle_request(rq);
>   }
> 
> Currently I'm doing
> 
>   while True:
>       rq = get_request(...)
>       if not rq:
>           break
>       handle_request(rq)
> 
> in Python 2.6. Any suggestions how to rewrite that?

Assuming get_request(...) is called with the same arguments on each 
iteration and uses None to signal that there is no more data:

from functools import partial

for rq in iter(partial(get_request, ...), None):
    handle_request(rq)

Peter


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Feb 24 05:28:13 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:28:13 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4B84FF3D.1010403@sequans.com>

Michael Rudolf wrote:
> Just a quick question about what would be the most pythonic approach 
> in this.
>
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend, but this won't work in 
> Python:
>
> >>> def a():
>     pass
> >>> def a(x):
>     pass
> >>> a()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in <module>
>     a()
> TypeError: a() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
>
> So - What would be the most pythonic way to emulate this?
> Is there any better Idom than:
>
> >>> def a(x=None):
>     if x is None:
>         pass
>     else:
>         pass
>
> ?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 docstring, 
1 way do do it, 1 interface.

JM


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Wed Feb 24 05:31:48 2010
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 10:31:48 GMT
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9D296B281C59Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:
>> 
>>   while(rq = get_request(..)) {
>>      handle_request(rq);
>>   }
>> 
> Assuming get_request(...) is called with the same arguments on each 
> iteration and uses None to signal that there is no more data:
> 
> from functools import partial
> 
> for rq in iter(partial(get_request, ...), None):
>     handle_request(rq)
> 
> Peter

and the next step on from this is to realise that the problem isn't how to 
code the calls to get_request(), the problem is actually that get_request() 
itself isn'ty Pythonic. Rewrite it as a generator, rename it to reflect 
that it now generates a sequence of requests and the code becomes:

for rq in incoming_requests(...):
   handle_request(rq)


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Feb 24 05:38:33 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:38:33 +0100
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Xns9D296B281C59Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <hm2vjv$csj$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> 
>> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm looking for a way to write code similar to this C code:
>>> 
>>>   while(rq = get_request(..)) {
>>>      handle_request(rq);
>>>   }
>>> 
>> Assuming get_request(...) is called with the same arguments on each
>> iteration and uses None to signal that there is no more data:
>> 
>> from functools import partial
>> 
>> for rq in iter(partial(get_request, ...), None):
>>     handle_request(rq)
>> 
>> Peter
> 
> and the next step on from this is to realise that the problem isn't how to
> code the calls to get_request(), the problem is actually that
> get_request() itself isn'ty Pythonic. Rewrite it as a generator, rename it
> to reflect that it now generates a sequence of requests and the code
> becomes:
> 
> for rq in incoming_requests(...):
>    handle_request(rq)

...and a likely implementation would be

def incoming_requests(...):
    while True:
        rq = ... # inlined version of get_request()
        if not rq:
            break
        yield rq

In other words: It's turtles all the way down...

Peter



From luismgz at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 05:44:52 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:44:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 4:08?am, Steven D'Aprano
<ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:44:10 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > On Feb 24, 1:15?am, Steven D'Aprano
> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> >> > On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> >> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> >> >> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> >> >> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> >> >> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update
> >> >> > locals as follows:
>
> >> >> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>
> >> >> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Steven
>
> >> > Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I
> >> > don't know if it would be a good practice...
>
> >> Er, how does using globals change the local variables?
>
> >> --
> >> Steven
>
> > Hmmm.... well, you tell me!
>
> I'm not the one that said you can update locals! You said it. I said you
> can't, because you *can't*. The docs warn that you can't change locals,
> and if you try it, you will see that the docs are right.
>
> >>> def test():
>
> ... ? ? x = 1
> ... ? ? locals().update(x = 2)
> ... ? ? print x
> ...
>
> >>> test()
>
> 1
>
> > As I said, I don't know if this is the recomended way...
>
> It's not recommended because it doesn't work.
>
> --
> Steven

I guess I have to check the docs...
Anyway, nobody wanted to update locals() from within a function here.
Doing it outside of a function seems to work.
And updating globals() works in any case, which is what the OP seems
to need. Isn't it?

Luis


From luismgz at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 05:58:38 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:58:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 7:44?am, Luis M. Gonz?lez <luis... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 4:08?am, Steven D'Aprano
>
>
>
>
>
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:44:10 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > > On Feb 24, 1:15?am, Steven D'Aprano
> > > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > >> > On Feb 23, 10:41?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> > >> > <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > >> >> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
> > >> >> > By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
> > >> >> > variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
> > >> >> > namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update
> > >> >> > locals as follows:
>
> > >> >> > ? ? locals().update( myDictionary )
>
> > >> >> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Steven
>
> > >> > Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead. Although I
> > >> > don't know if it would be a good practice...
>
> > >> Er, how does using globals change the local variables?
>
> > >> --
> > >> Steven
>
> > > Hmmm.... well, you tell me!
>
> > I'm not the one that said you can update locals! You said it. I said you
> > can't, because you *can't*. The docs warn that you can't change locals,
> > and if you try it, you will see that the docs are right.
>
> > >>> def test():
>
> > ... ? ? x = 1
> > ... ? ? locals().update(x = 2)
> > ... ? ? print x
> > ...
>
> > >>> test()
>
> > 1
>
> > > As I said, I don't know if this is the recomended way...
>
> > It's not recommended because it doesn't work.
>
> > --
> > Steven
>
> I guess I have to check the docs...
> Anyway, nobody wanted to update locals() from within a function here.
> Doing it outside of a function seems to work.
> And updating globals() works in any case, which is what the OP seems
> to need. Isn't it?
>
> Luis

Alright, this is what the docs say about locals:
"Note
The built-in functions globals() and locals() return the current
global and local dictionary, respectively, which may be useful to pass
around for use as the second and third argument to exec().

Note
The default locals act as described for function locals() below:
modifications to the default locals dictionary should not be
attempted. Pass an explicit locals dictionary if you need to see
effects of the code on locals after function exec() returns."

I wonder why updating locals(), not from within a function, works (at
least in my interactive session).
And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal? If not, is
there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?

Luis


From kse.listed.co1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 06:06:39 2010
From: kse.listed.co1 at gmail.com (Naeem)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 03:06:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "selma blair" "salma hayek" "salma hayek hot" "salma hayek 
	wallpapers" "hollywood sexiest scenes" "hollywood blue films"
	"hollywood 
	movies free download" on http://sexyandpretty-girls.blogspot.com/
Message-ID: <0add456c-de59-4105-a01c-9eaf19a7fa20@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

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From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Feb 24 06:24:58 2010
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:24:58 +0100
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Xns9D296B281C59Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hm2vjv$csj$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <atef57-5u1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

Peter Otten wrote:
> Duncan Booth wrote:
>> for rq in incoming_requests(...):
>>    handle_request(rq)
> 
> ...and a likely implementation would be
> 
> def incoming_requests(...):
>     while True:
>         rq = ... # inlined version of get_request()
>         if not rq:
>             break
>         yield rq
> 
> In other words: It's turtles all the way down...

Almost. While it moves the ugliness, at least it allows separating the
iteration logic from the handling logic, which is already a big step ahead!

That said, there is:

  with <expression> as <name>:
      ...

so why not:

  while <expression> as <name>:
      ...

and also:

  if <expression> as <name>:
      ...


Thanks to everybody for their input!

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 24 06:38:10 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:38:10 +0100
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b850f94$0$7054$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Luis M. Gonz?lez a ?crit :
> On Feb 23, 5:53 pm, vsoler <vicente.so... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have two dicts
>>
>> n={'a', 'm', 'p'}
>> v={1,3,7}
>>
>> and I'd like to have
>>
>> a=1
>> m=3
>> p=7
>>
>> that is, creating some variables.
>>
>> How can I do this?
> 
> You are probably coming from another language and you're not used to
> python's data structures.
> If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists.

<pedantic>

If you want a list, then you use a list - not a tuple !-)

> Examples:
> 
>     ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
> parenthesis ()

It's not the parens that "make" the tuple, it's the commas:

 >>> t1 = (1, 2, 3)
 >>> t2 = 1, 2, 3
 >>> t1
(1, 2, 3)
 >>> t2
(1, 2, 3)
 >>> type(t2)
<type 'tuple'>
 >>>

The only case where the parens are required is to define an empty tuple:
 >>> empty = ()
 >>> empty
()
 >>> type(empty)
<type 'tuple'>

</<pedantic>

Now it's most of the time a good idea to still use the parens since it 
makes for more readable code (IMHO...)

(snip  helpful content)


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 24 06:40:22 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:40:22 +0100
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b851018$0$7054$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Luis M. Gonz?lez a ?crit :
> On Feb 23, 10:41 pm, Steven D'Aprano
> <ste... at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:41:16 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>>> By the way, if you want the variables inside myDict to be free
>>> variables, you have to add them to the local namespace. The local
>>> namespace is also a dictionary "locals()". So you can update locals as
>>> follows:
>>>     locals().update( myDictionary )
>> No you can't. Try it inside a function.
>>
> 
> Sure. Inside a function I would use globals() instead.
> Although I don't know if it would be a good practice...

It's even worse than a bad practice. Hint : why is "globals" named 
"globals" and not "locals" ?



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 06:42:08 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:42:08 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

First: Thanks for all the replies so far, they really helped me.

Am 24.02.2010 11:28, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>> >>> def a(x=None):
>>     if x is None:
>>         pass
>>     else:
>>         pass
>>
> This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 docstring,
> 1 way do do it, 1 interface.

Yes, I see. Actually I do now realize that even in Java I use method 
overloading mostly to implement optional arguments anyway, like:

void constructor(){this.foo='foo'; this.initotherstuff();}
void constructor(int x) {this.x=x; this.constructor();}

and so on.

So most of the time the idiom above is exactly what I need, as the 
versions of the function share code anyway.

But there are also cases where they do something completely different - 
in these cases I might use one of the other solutions provided here or 
simply make two or three functions and name them appropiately.

I do now see that the pythonic approach is the "best" for most cases, 
but I really loved to see that you *can* do overloading in a convenient 
way if you really want to :D Those decorators just rock :D

Thanks again,
Michael


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 24 06:48:13 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:48:13 +0100
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Luis M. Gonz?lez a ?crit :
(snip)
> Alright, this is what the docs say about locals:
> "Note
> The built-in functions globals() and locals() return the current
> global and local dictionary, respectively, which may be useful to pass
> around for use as the second and third argument to exec().
> 
> Note
> The default locals act as described for function locals() below:
> modifications to the default locals dictionary should not be
> attempted. Pass an explicit locals dictionary if you need to see
> effects of the code on locals after function exec() returns."
> 
> I wonder why updating locals(), not from within a function, works (at
> least in my interactive session).

Because at the top level, locals and globals are the same thing.

> And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal?

It's legal, but it's (usually) a very bad idea - at the top-level, it 
harms readability, and from within a function it's doubly bad 
(readibility + "globals are evil").

Now as usual with GoldenRules(tm), it's meant to be broken - once you do 
know why you shouldn't _usually_ do it.


  for the very same reasons global

> If not, is
> there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?
> 
> Luis


From nobody at dizum.com  Wed Feb 24 06:52:50 2010
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:52:50 +0100 (CET)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
Message-ID: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>

Hello,

Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?

class T:
  A = range(2)
  B = range(4)
  s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)

It produces the exception:

<type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined

The exception above is especially confusing since the following similar example (I just replaced the generator by an explicit array) works:

class T:
  A = range(2)
  B = range(4)
  s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])

(BTW, the class scope declarations are intentional).

Thanks, Leo.



From J.Fine at open.ac.uk  Wed Feb 24 07:03:40 2010
From: J.Fine at open.ac.uk (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:03:40 +0000
Subject: WANTED: Regular expressions for breaking TeX/LaTeX document into
	tokens
Message-ID: <hm34is$k0v$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>

Hi

Does anyone know of a collection of regular expressions that will break 
a TeX/LaTeX document into tokens?  Assume that there is no verbatim or 
other category code changes.

Thanks


Jonathan


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 07:18:59 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:18:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fascism is coming to Internet
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<6d185c76-5ac2-4591-a3b6-229b3ac2a340@z1g2000prc.googlegroups.com> 
	<c3dfe1d1002231130v6b65bbcaoa6e2943f6d653839@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.129.1266956126.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a95ca33a-f0bc-4d6c-881d-cfb867f8ed16@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 23 feb, 20:16, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <da... at druid.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:30:03 +0100
>
> Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarna... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Even if this is "Off Topic" (which I think it really isn't in any open
> > source / free software-oriented mailing list), I want to agree with
> > Joan.
>
> It isn't about the Python programming language so it is off topic. ?So
> what if some members have an interest? ?We have interest in a lot of
> things. ?We all have interest in the hardware that our programs run on
> but questions about hardware are also off topic.
>
> Perhaps you don't quite grasp the point of topical discussion groups.
> They are a way of letting individuals decide for themselves what kind
> of discussions they want to be involved in. ?By spamming the group this
> way you take away that freedom of choice. ?It's ironic when it is done
> in the name of freedom.
>
> --

To avoid the spam, I reccomend a mailing list site as librelist:

  http://librelist.com/index.html

problem -> reaction -> solution


From alfps at start.no  Wed Feb 24 07:21:31 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:21:31 +0100
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
In-Reply-To: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Nomen Nescio:
> Hello,
> 
> Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?
> 
> class T:
>   A = range(2)
>   B = range(4)
>   s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
> 
> It produces the exception:
> 
> <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined

Which Python implementation are you using?

I can't reproduce the error message that you cite.


<example>
C:\test> py2
Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class T:
...   A = range(2)
...   B = range(4)
...   s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in <genexpr>
NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
 >>> exit()

C:\test> py3
Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class T:
...   A = range(2)
...   B = range(4)
...   s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in <genexpr>
NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
 >>> exit()

C:\test> _
</example>

Reason for the NameError:

The above is a /generator expression/, evaluated in a class definition.

The docs have a similar example but I'm sorry, I'm unable to find it! Anyway the 
generator expression is evaluated as if its code was put in function. And from 
within the scope of that function you can't access the class scope implicitly, 
hence, no access to 'B'.



> The exception above is especially confusing since the following similar example
> (I just replaced the generator by an explicit array) works:
> 
> class T:
>   A = range(2)
>   B = range(4)
>   s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
> 
> (BTW, the class scope declarations are intentional).
> 
> Thanks, Leo.

This is a /list comprehension/, not a generator expression (although 
syntactically it's almost the same).

It obeys different rules.

Essentially the generator expression produces a generator object that you may 
name or pass around as you wish, while the comprehension is just a syntactical 
device for writing more concisely some equivalent code that's generated inline.

However, apparently the rules changed between Python 2.x and Python 3.x.

In Python 3.x also the list comprehension fails in a class definition:


<example>
C:\test> py2
Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class T:
...   A = range(2)
...   B = range(4)
...   s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
...
 >>> exit()

C:\test> py3
Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on 
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> class T:
...   A = range(2)
...   B = range(4)
...   s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
   File "<stdin>", line 4, in <listcomp>
NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
 >>> exit()

C:\test> _
</example>


 From one point of view it's good that Py3 provides about the same behavior for 
generator expressions and list comprehensions.

But I'd really like the above examples to Just Work. :-)


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de  Wed Feb 24 07:49:55 2010
From: gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de (Gereon Kaiping)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:49:55 +0100
Subject: Artificial Neural Networks recommendation
Message-ID: <4B852073.30500@yahoo.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

I'd like to use ANNs in python, especially Simple Recurrent Networks.

Ideally I'd like to find a quick, pythonic module that is able to
simulate different styles of network architectures including some types
of recurrent networks (must: SRN/Elman, may: other recurrent networks
like ESN or LSTM to experiment with them).

So far I found the following Python ANN modules:
- - PyNN (just a builder, requires external simulator) ?
http://neuralensemble.org/trac/PyNN/
- - Con-x (part of pyro) ? http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=Conx
- - PyNeurGen (includes genetic algorithms) ?
http://pyneurgen.sourceforge.net/
- - ffnet (only fast forward) ? http://ffnet.sourceforge.net/
- - brian (spiking networks) ? http://www.briansimulator.org/
- - PyBrain (machine learning) ? http://pybrain.org/

Can you give me a recommendation or a review on some of these? Are there
other modules for simulating ANNs?

Greetings,
Gereon

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkuFIHIACgkQFWJnZLsO/Wvp1ACfa2dhOd0b0SIVkOzZN0ebRJdd
WFQAoIttIDNbIuqViDbPeVyS+wtGj6tI
=N1oM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Wed Feb 24 08:11:32 2010
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:11:32 +0000
Subject: Artificial Neural Networks recommendation
References: <mailman.157.1267015802.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y6iird6j.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

Gereon Kaiping <gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de> writes:


> Are there other modules for simulating ANNs?

Fann <http://leenissen.dk/fann/> has python bindings.


From luismgz at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 08:41:08 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 8:48?am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> Luis M. Gonz lez a crit :
> (snip)
>
> > Alright, this is what the docs say about locals:
> > "Note
> > The built-in functions globals() and locals() return the current
> > global and local dictionary, respectively, which may be useful to pass
> > around for use as the second and third argument to exec().
>
> > Note
> > The default locals act as described for function locals() below:
> > modifications to the default locals dictionary should not be
> > attempted. Pass an explicit locals dictionary if you need to see
> > effects of the code on locals after function exec() returns."
>
> > I wonder why updating locals(), not from within a function, works (at
> > least in my interactive session).
>
> Because at the top level, locals and globals are the same thing.
>
> > And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal?
>
> It's legal, but it's (usually) a very bad idea - at the top-level, it
> harms readability, and from within a function it's doubly bad
> (readibility + "globals are evil").
>
> Now as usual with GoldenRules(tm), it's meant to be broken - once you do
> know why you shouldn't _usually_ do it.
>
> ? for the very same reasons global
>
>
>
> > If not, is
> > there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?
>
> > Luis

I still don't understand why is it a bad idea in the case of
globals().
This is the only way I know to define variables programatically in the
top-level namespace, without having to do it manually one by one.
I don't see the readability problem either.
Talking about Goldenrules(tm), what's the recomended way to do it?

Luis


From edreamleo at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 08:58:03 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:58:03 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7 final released
References: <ndn7o5trgoash2css41b0s0bu1hp88qkie@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3qbao5tflmcds61l1ngltaq12ogdlvo2e8@4ax.com>

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:53:44 -0600, Edward K Ream
 <edreamleo at gmail.com> wrote:

A critical bug has been reported against Leo 4.7 final, and indeed all
previous versions of Leo 4.7.

The bug can cause loss of data in @file nodes when Leo 4.7 saves .leo
files created with older versions of Leo.

This bug will be fixed in Leo 4.7.1, due in a few days.  The bug has
already been fixed on Leo's trunk.

My apologies for any problems this bug may have caused.


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 08:59:13 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:59:13 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm3bbt$hd8$1@dough.gmane.org>

At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 09:02:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:02:17 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B853169.6030904@holdenweb.com>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
>> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
> 
> That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
> supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?
> 
Interesting that you are willing to trust your gut feeling against an
established survey. All indexes are flawed, they are merely flawed in
different ways is all. I track TIOBE because it shows trends. Python's
absolute position on the list doesn't interest me so much.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 09:02:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:02:17 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<6cc20cea1002222036s605f542es7634a70d2b92b18a@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c1002222145p425b1589sd00252e110a7ec5@mail.gmail.com>
	<hm0c97$n90$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B853169.6030904@holdenweb.com>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Chris Rebert, 23.02.2010 06:45:
>> Indeed. Python is at position 7, just behind C#, in the TIOBE Index:
>> http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
> 
> That index is clearly flawed. A language like PHP (whatever that is
> supposed to be comparable with) can't possibly be on the rise, can it?
> 
Interesting that you are willing to trust your gut feeling against an
established survey. All indexes are flawed, they are merely flawed in
different ways is all. I track TIOBE because it shows trends. Python's
absolute position on the list doesn't interest me so much.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 09:07:17 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:07:17 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <hm3br1$hd8$3@dough.gmane.org>

John Posner wrote:
> On 2/19/2010 2:25 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 2/19/2010 12:44 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:
>>
>>> Much to my embarrassment, sometime last night I realized I was being a
>>> complete idiot, and the 'correct' way to handle this in my scenario is
>>> really just:
>>>
>>> def initialize():
>>> # do one time processing here
>>>
>>> return []
>>>
>>> A generator is just a callable that returns an iterator, after all.
>>
>> Confusing generators and generator functions is, well, confusing.
>> For future reference, and clarity of communication in Pythonland,
>>
>> generator function: function that produces a generator when called; if
>> python coded, its body contains 'yield'.
>>
>> generator: iterator produced by a generator function;
> 
> I suggest:
> 
>  iterator produced by a generator function or a generator expression;
> 
> has .__next__ and
>> self-returning .__init__, like all other iterators.
>>
>> generator expression: an expression that evaluates to a generator; the
>> expression is used to create a temporary anonymous generator function
>> that is called to produce the generator and is then discarded.
> 
> Note that the Py2.6.4 documentation is inconsistent. AFAICT, it conforms
> to Terry's definitions above in most places. But the Glossary says:
> 
>  generator
>     A function which returns an iterator. <... more ...>
> 
>  generator expression
>     An expression that returns a generator.  <... more ...>
> 
> The additional verbiage in these definitions mitigates the damage, but I
> think the first entry should be headlined *generator function* instead
> of *generator*. And the Glossary should include Terry's additional entry
> [ as amended by me :-) ]:
> 
>  generator
>     An iterator produced by a generator function or a generator
>     expression.
> 
> -John
> 
+1. Can someone submit a documentation patch, please?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 09:32:43 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:32:43 -0400
Subject: Can't Connect To SMTP
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002240632h755b199bp1cf5c36b489aac07@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
I'm getting this error:

A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.

 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
   52 </head>
   53 <body>'''
   54 my_mail()
   55 print '''
   56 </body>
my_mail = <function my_mail>
 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
   33       to_address = ourEmail1,
   34       subject = subject,
   35       message = message
   36   ).send()
   37   Email(
message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
 /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
  344         smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
  345         if self.smtp_server:
  346             smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
  347         else:
  348             smtp.connect()
smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect of
<smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>, self.smtp_server
= 'localhost'
 /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
host='localhost', port=25)
  305         if not self.sock:
  306             raise socket.error, msg
  307         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
  308         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
  309         return (code, msg)
code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
<smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
<smtplib.SMTP instance>>
 /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>)
  349             if line == '':
  350                 self.close()
  351                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection unexpectedly
closed")
  352             if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
repr(line)
  353             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
      args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)

I'm having a hard time reading this and making sense of it. Please help me
understand where I should look to fix the problem.
TIA,
beno

-- 
The Logos has come to bear
http://logos.13gems.com/
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Feb 24 09:44:41 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:44:41 +0100
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b853b4b$0$23448$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Luis M. Gonz?lez a ?crit :
> On Feb 24, 8:48 am, Bruno Desthuilliers <bruno.
> 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> Luis M. Gonz lez a crit :

>>
>>> And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal?
>> It's legal, but it's (usually) a very bad idea - at the top-level, it
>> harms readability, and from within a function it's doubly bad
>> (readibility + "globals are evil").
>>
>> Now as usual with GoldenRules(tm), it's meant to be broken - once you do
>> know why you shouldn't _usually_ do it.
>>
>>> If not, is
>>> there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?
> 
> I still don't understand why is it a bad idea in the case of
> globals().

please not the _usually_.

> This is the only way I know to define variables programatically  in the
> top-level namespace,  without having to do it manually one by one.

> I don't see the readability problem either.

# wrong.py

x = 42

def bar():
    return x + 1


def test():
    y = bar()
    assert y==43

# snip 1kloc

def foo():
    globals()[x] = 43
    quux()

# snip some more core

def quux():
    globals()[y] = 1138

# snip some more core

if __name__ == '__main__':
    foo()


Enjoy...

> Talking about Goldenrules(tm), what's the recomended way to do it?

The "recommanded way" is
1/ to avoid using globals to share state whenever possible
2/ to avoid creating globals from a function

If your problem is to conditionnaly define globals (based on environment 
value or whatnot), then just write the conditional at the top level.

Now I don't say there's no legitimate use case for updating the global 
namespace from within a function - just that this is a very very very 
rare beast (never meet her as far as I'm concerned, and I did write some 
hairy code), and even then is BadEnough(tm) to require a good documentation.

FWIW, your example seemed to be about updating the global namespace from 
within a function just to have the names available in the function, 
which is about the worst possible solution to the OP problem.

wrt/ the OP question, mapping a sequence of values to a sequence of 
names is a legitimate concern, but you just dont need to define these 
names in the local namespace to use them - just stick'em in a dict and 
you're fine.



From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 24 09:48:32 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:48:32 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hm3br1$hd8$3@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net> <hm3br1$hd8$3@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4B853C40.5090307@optimum.net>

On 2/24/2010 9:07 AM, Steve Holden wrote:
> John Posner wrote:

>> Note that the Py2.6.4 documentation is inconsistent. AFAICT, it conforms
>> to Terry's definitions above in most places. But the Glossary says:
>>
>>   generator
>>      A function which returns an iterator.<... more ...>
>>
>>   generator expression
>>      An expression that returns a generator.<... more ...>
>>
>> The additional verbiage in these definitions mitigates the damage, but I
>> think the first entry should be headlined *generator function* instead
>> of *generator*. And the Glossary should include Terry's additional entry
>> [ as amended by me :-) ]:
>>
>>   generator
>>      An iterator produced by a generator function or a generator
>>      expression.
>>
>> -John
>>
> +1. Can someone submit a documentation patch, please?
>

Will do.  -John


From phoghawk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:40:55 2010
From: phoghawk at gmail.com (b3ng0)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:40:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <4308848c-b38f-4e45-bf01-8c4d2b3dcb7c@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 5:52?am, Nomen Nescio <nob... at dizum.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?
>
> class T:
> ? A = range(2)
> ? B = range(4)
> ? s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
>
> It produces the exception:
>
> <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined
>
> The exception above is especially confusing since the following similar example (I just replaced the generator by an explicit array) works:
>
> class T:
> ? A = range(2)
> ? B = range(4)
> ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
>
> (BTW, the class scope declarations are intentional).
>
> Thanks, Leo.

The best way to mimic the same behavior, while getting around the
scoping issues, would be as follows:

class T:
    A = range(2)
    B = range(4)

    @property
    def s(self):
        return sum(i*j for i in self.A for j in self.B)

T().s will now return 6


From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:45:05 2010
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:45:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <aaf19f1e-d166-4e3d-95cb-519512f634d5@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 12:21?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * Nomen Nescio:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?
>
> > class T:
> > ? A = range(2)
> > ? B = range(4)
> > ? s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
>
> > It produces the exception:
>
> > <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined
>
> Which Python implementation are you using?
>
> I can't reproduce the error message that you cite.
>
> <example>
> C:\test> py2
> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in <genexpr>
> NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
> ?>>> exit()
>
> C:\test> py3
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in <genexpr>
> NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
> ?>>> exit()
>
> C:\test> _
> </example>
>
> Reason for the NameError:
>
> The above is a /generator expression/, evaluated in a class definition.
>
> The docs have a similar example but I'm sorry, I'm unable to find it! Anyway the
> generator expression is evaluated as if its code was put in function. And from
> within the scope of that function you can't access the class scope implicitly,
> hence, no access to 'B'.
>
> > The exception above is especially confusing since the following similar example
> > (I just replaced the generator by an explicit array) works:
>
> > class T:
> > ? A = range(2)
> > ? B = range(4)
> > ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
>
> > (BTW, the class scope declarations are intentional).
>
> > Thanks, Leo.
>
> This is a /list comprehension/, not a generator expression (although
> syntactically it's almost the same).
>
> It obeys different rules.
>
> Essentially the generator expression produces a generator object that you may
> name or pass around as you wish, while the comprehension is just a syntactical
> device for writing more concisely some equivalent code that's generated inline.
>
> However, apparently the rules changed between Python 2.x and Python 3.x.
>
> In Python 3.x also the list comprehension fails in a class definition:
>
> <example>
> C:\test> py2
> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75708, Oct 26 2009, 08:23:19) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
> ...
> ?>>> exit()
>
> C:\test> py3
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in <listcomp>
> NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
> ?>>> exit()
>
> C:\test> _
> </example>
>
> ?From one point of view it's good that Py3 provides about the same behavior for
> generator expressions and list comprehensions.
>
> But I'd really like the above examples to Just Work. :-)
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf


s = sum( i*j for i,j in iterools.product(A, B) ) is a possible work
around.

Which could generalise to (something like):

s = sum( reduce(op.mul, seq) for seq in product(A, B, B, A) )

Cheers,

Jon.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:57:34 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:57:34 -0600
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <hm28pe$sj0$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>	<mailman.150.1266979970.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm28pe$sj0$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm3i9f$dt1$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-23 22:09 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2010-02-24, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>>> comp.lang.python.spam_prevention_discussion
>>
>> Which doesn't exist and never will. Sorry, but
>> meta-discussions about the group are typically on-topic for
>> all groups with some few exceptions (e.g.  non-discussion,
>> binary-only groups with associated .d groups, for instance).
>
> Since now we are discussing meta-discussions, is this now a
> meta-meta-discussion?

If you like, but I tend to interpret "meta-" as idempotent. It's easier on my 
aspirin budget.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From parkerp at example.net  Wed Feb 24 11:05:42 2010
From: parkerp at example.net (Peter Parker)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:05:42 -0500
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.158.1267019990.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm3io1$ble$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
> At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011
> 

At December 21, 2012 at 11:11 am (according to the Maya calendar)


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 11:14:00 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 08:14:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
Message-ID: <3f3ce996-7fc3-4c19-9397-e1db8f911aa4@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>



Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can someone help me understand what is wrong with this example?
>
> class T:
>   A = range(2)
>   B = range(4)
>   s = sum(i*j for i in A for j in B)
>
> It produces the exception:
>
> <type 'exceptions.NameError'>: global name 'j' is not defined

It's due to scoping rules for classes and/or how generator expressions
are compiled.  When a function definition is executed from within the
body of a class, the body of the class doesn't act as an outer scope
for it.  E.g.

class A:
    x = 2
    def f(self): return x

When f is defined (technically, when the closure is made), the name
'x' is not bound to 2 but is considered to be in the global namespace
(unless the class is defined within a function for example).  Now
generator expressions are defined as generator functions so your
example is akin to something like:

class T:
     A = range(2)
     B = range(4)
     def _gen(L):
          for i in L:
              for j in B:
                  yield i*j
     s = sum(_gen(A))

(From memory, I might be wrong on some details)

Now looking at the above, when _gen is defined, B is considered to be
belonging to the global namespace, therefore if it is not defined
there a NameError will be thrown.

Now a safe workaround to this would be:

class T:
   A = range(2)
   B = range(4)
   s = (lambda A=A, B=B: sum(i*j for i in A for j in B))()

The lambda form is evaluated when the body of the class is executed,
binding the names A and B to the objects you want in the generator
expression.

I remember suggesting a while ago that all generator expressions be
implicitely wrapped like the one above in order to avoid such
surprises.  I can't quite remember what the arguments against were,
but you can probably find them in the archives!

--
Arnaud


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Feb 24 11:38:57 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:38:57 +0000
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm3io1$ble$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.158.1267019990.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3io1$ble$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm3kmv$p8c$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/24/10 16:05, Peter Parker wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> At 12.34 pm on November 13, 2011
>>
>
> At December 21, 2012 at 11:11 am (according to the Maya calendar)

On August 29, 1997, Java became mainstream. In a panic, Microsoft tried 
to embrace, extend and exterminate the system, prompting Sun to 
retaliate with a lawsuit, knowing that Microsoft's counterattack would 
eliminate all its main competitors in the U.S. This initiates an 
indeterminately long period of new language development culminating in a 
battle against corporate monopoly, which gained ever-increasing 
capabilities of FUD.

-- 
mph


From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Wed Feb 24 12:07:07 2010
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:07:07 -0300
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
Message-ID: <9e2f512b1002240907v66682f1fi7d4d4c7d2dabd880@mail.gmail.com>

c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%:keys%'",{'keys':keywords})

This query returns empty. When it is executed, keywords = 'harvest'.
To check it, I do it on the command line and it works as expected:

sqlite> SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%harvest%';
11C
11D
12F

I guess there is a problem with the "%".


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:09:24 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:09:24 -0400
Subject: SMTPServerDisconnected
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002240909u6a82926l4c82ec3adf9a9192@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi;
> > I think the last main thing I have to do on my server is get a running
> email
> > server up. Now that I've nuked sendmail and given up on postfix, I'm back
> to
> > trying to get qmail up and running again. Of course, there are no active
> > discussion lists for *any* email server, so I have to turn here for help.
> > While running a script that worked perfectly well on another server to
> send
> > an email, I get the following error:
> > A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> > calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> > A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> > calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
> >    52 </head>
> >    53 <body>'''
> >    54 my_mail()
> >    55 print '''
> >    56 </body>
> > my_mail = <function my_mail>
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
> >    33       to_address = ourEmail1,
> >    34       subject = subject,
> >    35       message = message
> >    36   ).send()
> >    37   Email(
> > message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
> > send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
> >   344         smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
> >   345         if self.smtp_server:
> >   346             smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
> >   347         else:
> >   348             smtp.connect()
> > smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect
> of
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>,
> self.smtp_server
> > = 'localhost'
> >  /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
> > host='localhost', port=25)
> >   305         if not self.sock:
> >   306             raise socket.error, msg
> >   307         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
> >   308         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
> >   309         return (code, msg)
> > code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>>
> >  /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP
> instance>)
> >   349             if line == '':
> >   350                 self.close()
> >   351                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection
> unexpectedly
> > closed")
> >   352             if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
> > repr(line)
> >   353             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
> > global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
> > SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
> >       args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)
> > I cannot find the qmail logs. I assumed they'd be in either
> > /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send
> > or
> > /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-smtpd
> > but I find no logs there.
> >
> > [SSH] Protocol Version 2 (OpenSSH_4.3)
> > [SSH] Cipher: aes128-cbc
> > Logged in (password)
> > Last login: Tue Feb 23 05:24:00 2010 from 66.248.168.67
> > [beno at 13gems ~]$ su
> > Password:
> > [root at 13gems beno]# man netstat
> > [root at 13gems beno]# netstat
> > Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
> > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address               Foreign Address
> > State
> > getnameinfo failed
> > tcp        0    268 nrelectric.com:ssh          [UNKNOWN]:61912
> > ESTABLISHED
> > Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
> > Proto RefCnt Flags       Type       State         I-Node Path
> > unix  7      [ ]         DGRAM                    10842  /dev/log
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10370
> >  @/org/kernel/udev/udevd
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077731
> > unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077679
> > unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077678
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077675
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11556
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11511
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10990
> > [root at 13gems beno]#
> >
> > How do I trouble-shoot this?
>
> Try connecting to the port that is supposed to accept mail messages
> via telnet and issue a few SMTP commands.
>

Oops. I just realized I posted this twice to the same forum. My bad. I have
advanced on this somewhat. I have gotten email from my server, so I know
that smtp is in fact working. But I'm still getting this error. What do?
TIA,
beno
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From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:10:37 2010
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:10:37 -0400
Subject: SMTPServerDisconnected
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea1002230847g2e628165kbce9395e0aad2f62@mail.gmail.com>
	<6cc20cea1002231253p47e4c1d9m590b13a0b7421951@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea1002240910k6e236cf1pd068bd6c3fd08bbc@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jonathan Gardner <
jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Victor Subervi <victorsubervi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi;
> > I think the last main thing I have to do on my server is get a running
> email
> > server up. Now that I've nuked sendmail and given up on postfix, I'm back
> to
> > trying to get qmail up and running again. Of course, there are no active
> > discussion lists for *any* email server, so I have to turn here for help.
> > While running a script that worked perfectly well on another server to
> send
> > an email, I get the following error:
> > A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> > calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> > A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
> > calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py
> >    52 </head>
> >    53 <body>'''
> >    54 my_mail()
> >    55 print '''
> >    56 </body>
> > my_mail = <function my_mail>
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/mail2.py in my_mail()
> >    33       to_address = ourEmail1,
> >    34       subject = subject,
> >    35       message = message
> >    36   ).send()
> >    37   Email(
> > message = 'Name: beno -\nMessage: test'
> >  /var/www/html/globalsolutionsgroup.vi/simplemail/simplemail.py in
> > send(self=<simplemail.Email object>)
> >   344         smtp = smtplib.SMTP()
> >   345         if self.smtp_server:
> >   346             smtp.connect(self.smtp_server)
> >   347         else:
> >   348             smtp.connect()
> > smtp = <smtplib.SMTP instance>, smtp.connect = <bound method SMTP.connect
> of
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>>, self = <simplemail.Email object>,
> self.smtp_server
> > = 'localhost'
> >  /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in connect(self=<smtplib.SMTP instance>,
> > host='localhost', port=25)
> >   305         if not self.sock:
> >   306             raise socket.error, msg
> >   307         (code, msg) = self.getreply()
> >   308         if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, "connect:", msg
> >   309         return (code, msg)
> > code undefined, msg = 'getaddrinfo returns an empty list', self =
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>, self.getreply = <bound method SMTP.getreply of
> > <smtplib.SMTP instance>>
> >  /usr/lib64/python2.4/smtplib.py in getreply(self=<smtplib.SMTP
> instance>)
> >   349             if line == '':
> >   350                 self.close()
> >   351                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection
> unexpectedly
> > closed")
> >   352             if self.debuglevel > 0: print>>stderr, 'reply:',
> > repr(line)
> >   353             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
> > global SMTPServerDisconnected = <class smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected>
> > SMTPServerDisconnected: Connection unexpectedly closed
> >       args = ('Connection unexpectedly closed',)
> > I cannot find the qmail logs. I assumed they'd be in either
> > /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-send
> > or
> > /var/qmail/supervise/qmail-smtpd
> > but I find no logs there.
> >
> > [SSH] Protocol Version 2 (OpenSSH_4.3)
> > [SSH] Cipher: aes128-cbc
> > Logged in (password)
> > Last login: Tue Feb 23 05:24:00 2010 from 66.248.168.67
> > [beno at 13gems ~]$ su
> > Password:
> > [root at 13gems beno]# man netstat
> > [root at 13gems beno]# netstat
> > Active Internet connections (w/o servers)
> > Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address               Foreign Address
> > State
> > getnameinfo failed
> > tcp        0    268 nrelectric.com:ssh          [UNKNOWN]:61912
> > ESTABLISHED
> > Active UNIX domain sockets (w/o servers)
> > Proto RefCnt Flags       Type       State         I-Node Path
> > unix  7      [ ]         DGRAM                    10842  /dev/log
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10370
> >  @/org/kernel/udev/udevd
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077731
> > unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077679
> > unix  3      [ ]         STREAM     CONNECTED     6077678
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    6077675
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11556
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    11511
> > unix  2      [ ]         DGRAM                    10990
> > [root at 13gems beno]#
> >
> > How do I trouble-shoot this?
>
> Try connecting to the port that is supposed to accept mail messages
> via telnet and issue a few SMTP commands.
>

Oops. I just realized I sent this question twice to the same forum. My bad.
I have received email from my server, but I'm still getting this same error.
How trouble-shoot?
TIA,
beno
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From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 24 12:15:08 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:15:08 -0500
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <4B853C40.5090307@optimum.net>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ddc03$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<hlkpho$kpk$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.2768.1266560147.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7e2dfb$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.2784.1266594744.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4B7EF185.1040702@optimum.net> <hm3br1$hd8$3@dough.gmane.org>
	<4B853C40.5090307@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4B855E9C.5040502@optimum.net>

>>> generator
>>> An iterator produced by a generator function or a generator
>>> expression.
>>>
>>> -John
>>>
>> +1. Can someone submit a documentation patch, please?
>>
>
> Will do. -John

[sorry if this is a dup]

Done: #8012 "Revise generator-related Glossary entries"

-John



From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:21:11 2010
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:21:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
References: <mailman.165.1267031245.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6118c46-8717-41f6-abc8-60c35b204c89@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 5:07?pm, Sebastian Bassi <sba... at clubdelarazon.org> wrote:
> c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%:keys%'",{'keys':keywords})
>
> This query returns empty. When it is executed, keywords = 'harvest'.
> To check it, I do it on the command line and it works as expected:
>
> sqlite> SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%harvest%';
> 11C
> 11D
> 12F
>
> I guess there is a problem with the "%".


You might want:
c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins where qtl like $keys", {'keys':
keywords} )

Cheers,

Jon.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:23:17 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:23:17 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hm3na4$46s$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 03:50, Paul Rubin wrote:
> The stuff about converting 4 random bytes to a decimal string and then
> peeling off 2 digits at a time is pretty awful, and notice that since
> 2**32 is 4294967296, in the cases where you get 10 digits, the first
> 2-digit pair is never higher than 42.

Yikes! I didn't think about that. This is probably where (some part of) 
probability skewing comes from.

Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted 
from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for them, 
so they will not have to remember and type them in. So I have little in 
the way of limitations of password length - even though in *some* cases 
somebody might have to (or be ignorant enough) to retype the password 
instead of pasting it in.

In that case the "diceware" approach is not necessary, even though I 
will certainly remember this approach for a case when users will have to 
remember & type the passwords in.

The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so the 
main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords using 
brute force.

Using A-z with 10-char password seems to provide 3 orders of magnitude 
more combinations than a-z:

 >>> 57 ** 10
362033331456891249L
 >>> 25 ** 10
95367431640625L

Even though I'm not sure it is worth it, assuming 1000 brute-force 
guesses per second (which over the web would amount pretty much to DOS), 
this would take # days:

 >>> 57 ** 10 / (1000 * 3600 * 24)
4190200595L
 >>> 25 ** 10 / (1000 * 3600 * 24)
1103789L

Even then I'm not getting completely uniform distribution for some reason:

d 39411
l 39376
f 39288
a 39275
s 39225
r 39172
p 39159
t 39073
k 39071
u 39064
e 39005
o 39005
n 38995
j 38993
h 38975
q 38958
c 38938
b 38906
g 38894
i 38847
m 38819
v 38712
z 35321
y 35228
w 35189
x 35075

Code:

import operator

def gen_rand_word(n):
     with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
         return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n)])

def count_chars(chardict, word):
     for c in word:
         try:
             chardict[c] += 1
         except KeyError:
             chardict[c] = 0

if __name__ == "__main__":
     chardict = {}
     for i in range(100000):
         w = gen_rand_word(10)
         count_chars(chardict, w)
     counts = list(chardict.items())
     counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
     for char, count in counts:
         print char, count

> I'd write your code something like this:
>
>      nletters = 5
>
>      def randomword(n):
>          with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
>              return ''.join([chr(ord('a')+ord(c)%26) for c in f.read(n)])
>
>      print randomword(nletters)

Aw shucks when will I learn to do the stuff in 3 lines well instead of 
20, poorly. :-/

Regards,
mk





From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:29:22 2010
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:29:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
References: <mailman.165.1267031245.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<a6118c46-8717-41f6-abc8-60c35b204c89@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d4069d47-f5b2-4899-83d2-db7ae5b5b2b9@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 5:21?pm, Jon Clements <jon... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 5:07?pm, Sebastian Bassi <sba... at clubdelarazon.org> wrote:
>
> > c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%:keys%'",{'keys':keywords})
>
> > This query returns empty. When it is executed, keywords = 'harvest'.
> > To check it, I do it on the command line and it works as expected:
>
> > sqlite> SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%harvest%';
> > 11C
> > 11D
> > 12F
>
> > I guess there is a problem with the "%".
>
> You might want:
> c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins where qtl like $keys", {'keys':
> keywords} )
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jon.

As soon as I posted that, the $ didn't look right; the docs use :keys
syntax.

Cheers,

Jon.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:30:20 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:30:20 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <dd162444-4788-4d6c-b30a-04ae32faf1dc@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.111.1266936500.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<dd162444-4788-4d6c-b30a-04ae32faf1dc@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm3nnb$5rr$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 03:26, George Sakkis wrote:
>> Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this:
>>
>> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav...
>>
>> This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword "Java" appears.
>>
>> Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now:
>>
>> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh...
>
> This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other
> countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g.
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23&l=

Interesting, and I was thinking that UK sample was big enough for such 
things not to matter.

Regards,
mk



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb 24 12:32:59 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:32:59 -0300
Subject: How to measure elapsed time under Windows?
References: <hks1eg$hm4$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2259.1265759051.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hkum2p$4i0$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<mailman.2331.1265841480.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<1n2en51qqliplc2u8q78l3gt2dn3vmeh8d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8m609v2x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Sat, 13 Feb 2010 17:29:45 -0300, Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> escribi?:
> "Gabriel Genellina" <gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>>
>> The original problem was with the RDTSC instruction on multicore CPUs;
>> different cores may yield different results because they're not
>> synchronized at all times.
>
> Not true.  The synchronization issue has two causes:  initial
> synchronization at boot time, and power management making microscopic
> adjustments to the clock rate.  In Windows NT 4, Microsoft took extra  
> pains
> to adjust the cycle counters on multiprocessor computers during boot so
> that the processors started out very close together.  Once set, they
> naturally remained in lock step, until aggressive power management  
> because
> more prevalent.  In XP, they stopped trying to align at boot time.

Thanks for the detailed explanation!

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From spam at removethis.btinternet.com  Wed Feb 24 12:39:19 2010
From: spam at removethis.btinternet.com (Abigail)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:39:19 -0000
Subject: Noob raw_input question
Message-ID: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>

Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some 
examples but I have hit a problem

>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
    a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number 
")

What am I doing wrong?




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:47:11 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:47:11 +0100
Subject: Intra-package C extensions with freeze.py
In-Reply-To: <4B4E2497.20809@gmail.com>
References: <4B4E2497.20809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm3omt$8jf$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-01-13 20:52, Pascal Chambon wrote:

> I've managed to solve that by manually "monkey patching" sys.modules,
> before fusemodule's actual import. But this looks like an unsatisfying
> solution, to me.

Geez..

> Does anyone have a clue about how to freeze a python program cleanly, in
> case such inner C extensions are involved ? Does any of the freezers
> (freeze.py, py2exe, pyrex, cx_freeze...) do that ? I haven't seen such
> things so far in their docs.

Go for pyinstaller, I have successfully packaged an app using compiled C 
extensions this way. Although you will have to add those extensions in 
"hook" script.

Regards,
mk



From comptekki at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:49:08 2010
From: comptekki at gmail.com (Wes James)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:49:08 -0700
Subject: WANTED: Regular expressions for breaking TeX/LaTeX document into 
	tokens
In-Reply-To: <hm34is$k0v$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>
References: <hm34is$k0v$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>
Message-ID: <533df7fa1002240949o4f98d294u9174b4d32cd154b1@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:03 AM, Jonathan Fine <J.Fine at open.ac.uk> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Does anyone know of a collection of regular expressions that will break a
> TeX/LaTeX document into tokens? ?Assume that there is no verbatim or other
> category code changes.

I'm not sure how this does it, but it might help:

http://plastex.sourceforge.net/plastex/sect0025.html

-wes


From bornstub at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:49:18 2010
From: bornstub at gmail.com (Victor Lin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:49:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A tool for find dependencies relationships behind Python projects
References: <e6cb616e-907c-4029-80cc-5f68a140e5ad@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.61.1266856327.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f2c32233-ab42-40b4-87ec-89130eb18d86@c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On 2?23?, ??12?32?, Hellmut Weber <m... at hellmutweber.de> wrote:
> Hi Victor,
> I would be intereseted to use your tool ;-)
>
> My system is Sabayon-5.1 on Lenovo T61.
> Trying for the first time easy_install I get the following error:
>
> ====================
>
> root at sylvester ~ # easy_install gluttony
> Searching for gluttony
> Readinghttp://pypi.python.org/simple/gluttony/
> Readinghttp://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
> Best match: Gluttony 0.3
>
> Downloadinghttp://pypi.python.org/packages/source/G/Gluttony/Gluttony-0.3.zip#md...
>
> Processing Gluttony-0.3.zip
> Running Gluttony-0.3/setup.py -q bdist_egg --dist-dir
> /tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/egg-dist-tmp-CJI_LD
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "/usr/bin/easy_install", line 9, in <module>
> ? ? ?load_entry_point('distribute==0.6.8', 'console_scripts',
> 'easy_install')()
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1708, in main
> ? ? ?with_ei_usage(lambda:
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1696, in with_ei_usage
> ? ? ?return f()
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 1712, in <lambda>
> ? ? ?distclass=DistributionWithoutHelpCommands, **kw
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/core.py", line 152, in setup
> ? ? ?dist.run_commands()
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 975, in run_commands
> ? ? ?self.run_command(cmd)
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/distutils/dist.py", line 995, in run_command
> ? ? ?cmd_obj.run()
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 236, in run
> ? ? ?self.easy_install(spec, not self.no_deps)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 471, in easy_install
> ? ? ?return self.install_item(spec, dist.location, tmpdir, deps)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 501, in install_item
> ? ? ?dists = self.install_eggs(spec, download, tmpdir)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 680, in install_eggs
> ? ? ?return self.build_and_install(setup_script, setup_base)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 957, in build_and_install
> ? ? ?self.run_setup(setup_script, setup_base, args)
> ? ?File
> "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/command/easy_install.py",
> line 946, in run_setup
> ? ? ?run_setup(setup_script, args)
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line
> 29, in run_setup
> ? ? ?lambda: execfile(
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line
> 70, in run
> ? ? ?return func()
> ? ?File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/setuptools/sandbox.py", line
> 31, in <lambda>
> ? ? ?{'__file__':setup_script, '__name__':'__main__'}
> ? ?File "setup.py", line 9, in <module>
> ? ?File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/__init__.py",
> line 1, in <module>
> ? ? ?#
> ? ?File "/tmp/easy_install-uPz7qO/Gluttony-0.3/gluttony/gluttony.py",
> line 13, in <module>
> ImportError: No module named pip.log
> root at sylvester ~ #
>
> ====================
>
> I emerged app-misc/pip, but that didn't help, the error remains the same
>
> What is missing?
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> Best regards
>
> Hellmut
>
> Am 19.02.2010 17:16, schrieb Victor Lin:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I just wrote a tool for drawing dependencies relationships diagram of
> > Python project on Pypi. ?Here is the home page of the tool:
>
> >http://code.google.com/p/python-gluttony/
>
> > Some examples:
> > Sprox:
> >http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/sprox_dot.png
>
> > TurboGears2:
> >http://static.ez2learn.com/gluttony/tg2_dot.png
>
> > Hope this could be helpful :P
>
> > Regards.
> > Victor Lin.
>
> --
> Dr. Hellmut Weber ? ? ? ? m... at hellmutweber.de
> Degenfeldstra?e 2 ? ? ? ? tel ? +49-89-3081172
> D-80803 M?nchen-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
> please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq

Hi,

That is a mistake I made in when I am making the distribute.  Thanks
your reporting.  I have already fixed the problem and released
Gluttony 0.4, and I tried to install that, it works fine.

Victor Lin.


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 12:56:03 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:56:03 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 24.02.2010 18:23, schrieb mk:
> Even then I'm not getting completely uniform distribution for some reason:
> d 39411
> l 39376
> f 39288
> a 39275
> s 39225
> r 39172
> p 39159
> t 39073
> k 39071
> u 39064
> e 39005
> o 39005
> n 38995
> j 38993
> h 38975
> q 38958
> c 38938
> b 38906
> g 38894
> i 38847
> m 38819
> v 38712
> z 35321
> y 35228
> w 35189
> x 35075
>
> Code:
>
> import operator
>
> def gen_rand_word(n):
> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n)])

The reason is 256 % 26 != 0
256 mod 26 equals 22, thus your code is hitting a-v about 10% (256/26 is 
approx. 10) more often than w-z. You might want to skip the values 0-22 
to achieve a truly uniform distribution.

FYI: Electronic Cash PINs in europe (dont know about the rest of the 
world) were computed the same way (random hexdigit and just mod it when 
it's too large) leading to a high probability that your first digit was 
a 1 :)

Regards,
Michael


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 12:59:53 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:59:53 -0500
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3na4$46s$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<hm3na4$46s$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3pf9$c57$1@dough.gmane.org>

mk wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 03:50, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> The stuff about converting 4 random bytes to a decimal string and then
>> peeling off 2 digits at a time is pretty awful, and notice that since
>> 2**32 is 4294967296, in the cases where you get 10 digits, the first
>> 2-digit pair is never higher than 42.
> 
> Yikes! I didn't think about that. This is probably where (some part of)
> probability skewing comes from.
> 
> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for them,
> so they will not have to remember and type them in. So I have little in
> the way of limitations of password length - even though in *some* cases
> somebody might have to (or be ignorant enough) to retype the password
> instead of pasting it in.
> 
> In that case the "diceware" approach is not necessary, even though I
> will certainly remember this approach for a case when users will have to
> remember & type the passwords in.
> 
> The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so the
> main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords using
> brute force.
> 
> Using A-z with 10-char password seems to provide 3 orders of magnitude
> more combinations than a-z:
> 
>>>> 57 ** 10
> 362033331456891249L
>>>> 25 ** 10
> 95367431640625L
> 
> Even though I'm not sure it is worth it, assuming 1000 brute-force
> guesses per second (which over the web would amount pretty much to DOS),
> this would take # days:
> 
>>>> 57 ** 10 / (1000 * 3600 * 24)
> 4190200595L
>>>> 25 ** 10 / (1000 * 3600 * 24)
> 1103789L
> 
> Even then I'm not getting completely uniform distribution for some reason:
> 
> d 39411
> l 39376
> f 39288
> a 39275
> s 39225
> r 39172
> p 39159
> t 39073
> k 39071
> u 39064
> e 39005
> o 39005
> n 38995
> j 38993
> h 38975
> q 38958
> c 38938
> b 38906
> g 38894
> i 38847
> m 38819
> v 38712
> z 35321
> y 35228
> w 35189
> x 35075
> 
> Code:
> 
> import operator
> 
> def gen_rand_word(n):
>     with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
>         return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n)])
> 
> def count_chars(chardict, word):
>     for c in word:
>         try:
>             chardict[c] += 1
>         except KeyError:
>             chardict[c] = 0
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     chardict = {}
>     for i in range(100000):
>         w = gen_rand_word(10)
>         count_chars(chardict, w)
>     counts = list(chardict.items())
>     counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
>     for char, count in counts:
>         print char, count
> 
>> I'd write your code something like this:
>>
>>      nletters = 5
>>
>>      def randomword(n):
>>          with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
>>              return ''.join([chr(ord('a')+ord(c)%26) for c in f.read(n)])
>>
>>      print randomword(nletters)
> 
> Aw shucks when will I learn to do the stuff in 3 lines well instead of
> 20, poorly. :-/
> 
When you've got as much experience as Paul?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 13:12:59 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:12:59 +0100
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
In-Reply-To: <mailman.165.1267031245.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.165.1267031245.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B856C2B.3070502@nospam.web.de>

Am 24.02.10 18:07, schrieb Sebastian Bassi:
> c.execute("SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%:keys%'",{'keys':keywords})
>
> This query returns empty. When it is executed, keywords = 'harvest'.
> To check it, I do it on the command line and it works as expected:
>
> sqlite>  SELECT bin FROM bins WHERE qtl LIKE '%harvest%';
> 11C
> 11D
> 12F
>
> I guess there is a problem with the "%".

You aren't supposed to put ' into the query. The thing you pass needs to 
be the full literal.

Use

c.execute("select ... qtl like :keys", dict(keys="%%%s%%" % keywords))


Diez


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 13:13:28 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:13:28 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3pf9$c57$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<hm3na4$46s$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3pf9$c57$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3q86$euv$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 18:59, Steve Holden wrote:

>> Aw shucks when will I learn to do the stuff in 3 lines well instead of
>> 20, poorly. :-/
>>
> When you've got as much experience as Paul?

And how much experience does Paul have? (this is mostly not a facile 
question)

For my part, my more serious effort (on and off) with programming in 
Python is under a year.

Regards,
mk



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Feb 24 13:16:18 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:16:18 -0800
Subject: Noob raw_input question
In-Reply-To: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002241016w54c75270n25200a60279d050@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Abigail <spam at removethis.btinternet.com> wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some
> examples but I have hit a problem
>
>>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number
> ")
>
> What am I doing wrong?

raw_input() got renamed to just input().
Please read the 3.x transition docs at
http://docs.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.0.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 24 13:18:27 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:18:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
Message-ID: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>




I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
it!

Is my memory playing me a trick?

After all, from what I've seen since then, the practice of
triple-quote-commenting (or TQC, pardon the TCA) is in fact quite
common.

Is TQC OK after all?

If not, what's the case against it?

Also, has the BDFL expressed an opinion on the subject?  Alternatively,
is there any other more or less "authoritative" opinion on TQC? 

TIA!

~K

P.S.  I can think of at least one reason to avoid TQC: it has
basically the same problems with nesting that C's /**/ has.  (Sure,
in the case of TQC one could use "the other" triple quote, but it's
not hard to see that this workaround goes only so far.)  But this
reason does not seem to bother many programmers, most of whom,
after all, cut their teeth with C and /**/.

P.S.2 I'm disregarding "it's un-Pythonic" as a reason against TQC,
because it's not the kind of reason that carries much weight out
here "in the trenches", as I've discovered.  But, yes, I happen to
think that TQC is un-Pythonic.  After all, in my programming
environment, it takes half as many keystrokes to comment a block
of code with # than it does with """.  I imagine that any decent
programming environment makes #-commenting at least as easy.
Therefore, there goes convenience as an argument in defense of TQC.
Which leaves TMTOWTDI as the only possible defense for TQC, and
TMTOWTDI is pretty un-Pythonic, no?  :)


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 13:21:08 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:21:08 -0600
Subject: Noob raw_input question
In-Reply-To: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <hm3qmk$h1d$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 11:39 AM, Abigail wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some
> examples but I have hit a problem
>
>>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in<module>
>      a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number
> ")
>
> What am I doing wrong?

Python 3 changed the name of raw_input() to input() (and the old input() method 
that evaluates the string was simply thrown out as being redundant and unsafe).

http://docs.python.org/dev/3.0/whatsnew/3.0.html

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 24 13:29:06 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:29:06 -0500
Subject: Noob raw_input question
In-Reply-To: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <hm3r4o$jfa$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/24/2010 12:39 PM, Abigail wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some
> examples but I have hit a problem
>
>>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in<module>
>      a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number
> ")
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
>

The Python 2 built-in function "raw_input" has been renamed to "input" 
in Python 3. You'll probably run into this, too:

  Python 2: print "hello, world"
  Python 3: print("hello, world")

You might want to install Python 2 if you're working your way through a 
tutorial that's targeted at that "generation" of the language.

-John




From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 13:33:11 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:33:11 -0500
Subject: Noob raw_input question
In-Reply-To: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <hm3rdo$k9m$1@dough.gmane.org>

Abigail wrote:
> Yesterday I downloaded and installed Python 3.1 and working through some 
> examples but I have hit a problem
> 
>>>> a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#6>", line 1, in <module>
>     a = raw_input("Enter a number" )
> NameError: name 'raw_input' is not defined>>>a = raw_input("Enter a number 
> ")
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> 
In Python 3 raw_input() is now simply called input()

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From spam at removethis.btinternet.com  Wed Feb 24 13:33:26 2010
From: spam at removethis.btinternet.com (Abigail)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:33:26 -0000
Subject: Noob raw_input question
References: <uoCdnfqQYdfz9hjWnZ2dnUVZ8imdnZ2d@bt.com>
Message-ID: <v72dnQzFgql27RjWnZ2dnUVZ7oKdnZ2d@bt.com>

Thank You 




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 13:35:11 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:35:11 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 18:56, Michael Rudolf wrote:

> The reason is 256 % 26 != 0
> 256 mod 26 equals 22, thus your code is hitting a-v about 10% (256/26 is
> approx. 10) more often than w-z.

<Barbie voice>writing secure code is hard...

I'm going to switch to PHP: Python world wouldn't lose much, but PHP 
would gain a lot.

> You might want to skip the values 0-22
> to achieve a truly uniform distribution.

Hmm perhaps you meant to skip values over 256 - 22 ? Bc I'm getting this 
(reduced the run to 1000 generated strings):

def gen_rand_word(n):
     with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
         return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) 
if ord(x) > 22])


z 3609
b 3608
s 3567
e 3559
j 3556
r 3555
g 3548
p 3540
m 3538
q 3532
h 3528
y 3526
v 3524
i 3500
x 3496
c 3488
k 3488
l 3487
u 3487
a 3469
o 3465
d 3455
t 3439
f 3437
n 3417
w 3175

While with this:

def gen_rand_word(n):
     with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
         return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) 
if ord(x) < 235])

a 3852
w 3630
s 3623
v 3582
y 3569
p 3568
c 3558
k 3558
b 3556
r 3553
x 3546
m 3534
n 3522
o 3515
h 3510
d 3505
u 3487
t 3486
i 3482
f 3477
e 3474
g 3460
q 3453
l 3437
z 3386
j 3382

1. I'm systematically getting 'a' outlier: have no idea why for now.

2. This is somewhat better (except 'a') but still not uniform.


> FYI: Electronic Cash PINs in europe (dont know about the rest of the
> world) were computed the same way (random hexdigit and just mod it when
> it's too large) leading to a high probability that your first digit was
> a 1 :)

Schadenfreude is deriving joy from others' misfortunes; what is the 
German word, if any, for deriving solace from others' misfortunes? ;-)

Regards,
mk




From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:01:03 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:01:03 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 12:35 PM, mk wrote:

> While with this:
>
> def gen_rand_word(n):
> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) if ord(x)
> < 235])
>
> a 3852
...

> 1. I'm systematically getting 'a' outlier: have no idea why for now.
>
> 2. This is somewhat better (except 'a') but still not uniform.

I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead of 
trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rantingrick at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:03:52 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:03:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <662efb8d-0ae0-4d98-b52e-9cc03ef77d80@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 12:18?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect. ?But now I can't find
> it!

Your going to get many opinions on this subject but my stance is --
use quotes for stings and hash chars for comments -- thats the end of
it for me ;)


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 14:09:43 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:09:43 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.183.1267038080.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xiq9mtpqg.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> writes:
> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice()
> instead of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.

SystemRandom is something pretty new so I wasn't aware of it.  But
yeah, if I were thinking more clearly I would have suggested os.urandom
instead of opening /dev/urandom.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:09:59 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:09:59 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.

Oh I hear you -- for production use I would (will) certainly consider 
this. However, now I'm interested in the problem itself: why is the damn 
distribution not uniform?

Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:12:09 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:12:09 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B857A09.7040707@gmail.com>


Get a decent editor, like PyScripter, and press Ctrl-' (toggle comment).

Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:12:09 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:12:09 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B857A09.7040707@gmail.com>


Get a decent editor, like PyScripter, and press Ctrl-' (toggle comment).

Regards,
mk





From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:16:24 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:16:24 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3tu6$ue5$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.

Out of curiosity:

def gen_rand_string(length):
     prng = random.SystemRandom()
     chars = []
     for i in range(length):
         chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
     return ''.join(chars)

if __name__ == "__main__":
     chardict = {}
     for i in range(10000):
##        w = gen_rand_word(10)
         w = gen_rand_string(10)
         count_chars(chardict, w)
     counts = list(chardict.items())
     counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
     for char, count in counts:
         print char, count


s 3966
d 3912
g 3909
h 3905
a 3901
u 3900
q 3891
m 3888
k 3884
b 3878
x 3875
v 3867
w 3864
y 3851
l 3825
z 3821
c 3819
e 3819
r 3816
n 3808
o 3797
f 3795
t 3784
p 3765
j 3730
i 3704

Better, although still not perfect.

Regards,
mk



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:19:23 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:19:23 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 13:09 PM, mk wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
>> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
>> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.
>
> Oh I hear you -- for production use I would (will) certainly consider
> this. However, now I'm interested in the problem itself: why is the damn
> distribution not uniform?

You want "< 234", not "< 235". (234 % 26 == 0), so you get some extra 'a's.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 14:26:36 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 11:26:36 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>
>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>
>Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>
>The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>stop the message being spam when posted here.

That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
spinach lasagne here, is that spam?  I don't think many people would call
it spam, just an off-topic post.  From my POV, spam is defined a bit more
narrowly.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 14:27:36 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 11:27:36 -0800
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm3uj8$alt$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hm3qhi$2cd$1 at reader2.panix.com>, kj  <no.email at please.post> wrote:
>
>I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across the
>commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT LINES OF
>CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find it!
>
>Is my memory playing me a trick?

Possibly.  I certainly do that.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 14:30:40 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:30:40 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.180.1267036529.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.180.1267036529.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm3up1$1fc$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 24.02.2010 19:35, schrieb mk:
> On 2010-02-24 18:56, Michael Rudolf wrote:
>
>> The reason is 256 % 26 != 0
>> 256 mod 26 equals 22, thus your code is hitting a-v about 10% (256/26 is
>> approx. 10) more often than w-z.
>
> <Barbie voice>writing secure code is hard...

So true. That's why one should stick to standard libs when it comes to 
crypto or security in general. It's just to easy to mess it up. Just ask 
Debian about whether touching OpenSSL was a good idea ;)


>> You might want to skip the values 0-22
>> to achieve a truly uniform distribution.
> Hmm perhaps you meant to skip values over 256 - 22 ?

That's the same thing as x mod y equals x+N*y mod y for every natural N.

> def gen_rand_word(n):
> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) if ord(x)
>  > 22])

Off-by-one-error: you're skipping len(range(22))==23 hits.
OK, I just see that I wrote misleading 0-22 while I meant range(22).


> While with this:
> def gen_rand_word(n):
> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) if ord(x)
> < 235])

Same off-by-one.

>> FYI: Electronic Cash PINs in europe (dont know about the rest of the
>> world) were computed the same way (random hexdigit and just mod it when
>> it's too large) leading to a high probability that your first digit was
>> a 1 :)
> Schadenfreude is deriving joy from others' misfortunes; what is the
> German word, if any, for deriving solace from others' misfortunes? ;-)

Well - "Schadenfreude" *is* in fact a german word :)
"Schaden" is the event or result of misfortune, "Freude" is joy.


Well, I really think that you should use repeated Random.choice on an 
alphabet.
Or Random.Systemrandom.choice if you don't trust the PRNG.

Regards,
Michael


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 14:31:51 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:31:51 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xeikatopk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
> So I have little in the way of limitations of password length ...>
> The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so
> the main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords
> using brute force.

If it's HTTP instead of HTTPS and you're sending the password in the
clear, then a serious attacker can simply eavesdrop the connection and
pick up the password.  Again, if the application is a web forum or
something like that, the security requirements probably aren't terribly
high.  If it's (say) a financial application with potentially motivated
attackers, you've got to be a lot more careful than I think you're being
right now, and you should really get security specialists involved.

> Using A-z with 10-char password seems to provide 3 orders of magnitude
> more combinations than a-z:

Yes, 2**10 = 1024 so (57/25)**10 is a little more than that. 

> Even then I'm not getting completely uniform distribution for some reason:

Exact equality of the counts would be surprising and a sign that
something was wrong with the generation process.  It would be like
flipping a coin 10000 times and getting exactly 5000 heads.  The
binomial distribution tells you that the number should be close to 5000,
but that it's unlikely to be -exactly- 5000.

Also, as Michael Rudolf mentioned, getting a letter by taking n%26 where
n is drawn uniformly from [0..255] doesn't give a uniform distribution
because 256 is not a multiple of 26.  I had thought about making an
adjustment for that when I posted, but it didn't seem worth cluttering
up the code.  Uniformity for its own sake doesn't gain you anything;
what matters is entropy.  If you compute the entropy difference between
the slightly nonuniform distribution and a uniform one, it's very small.

To get a more uniform distribution I usually just take a larger n,
rather than conditionalizing the draws.  For example, in the
diceware-like code I posted, I read 10 random bytes (giving a uniform
random number on [0..2**80]) from urandom for each word.  That is still
not perfectly uniform, but it's closer to the point where the difference
would be very hard to detect.

> Aw shucks when will I learn to do the stuff in 3 lines well instead of
> 20, poorly. :-/

Well, that's partly a matter of practice, but I'll mention one way I
simplified the code, which was by reading more bytes from /dev/urandom
than was really necessary.  I read one byte for each random letter
(i.e. throwing away about 3 random bits for each letter) while you tried
to encode the urandom data cleverly and map 4 random bytes to 5
alphabetic letters.  /dev/urandom uses a cryptographic PRNG and it's
pretty fast, so reading a few extra bytes from it to simplify your code
doesn't really cost you anything.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 14:36:29 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:36:29 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3tu6$ue5$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3tu6$ue5$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm3v3u$36c$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 13:16 PM, mk wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
>> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
>> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.
>
> Out of curiosity:
>
> def gen_rand_string(length):
> prng = random.SystemRandom()
> chars = []
> for i in range(length):
> chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
> return ''.join(chars)
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
> chardict = {}
> for i in range(10000):
> ## w = gen_rand_word(10)
> w = gen_rand_string(10)
> count_chars(chardict, w)
> counts = list(chardict.items())
> counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
> for char, count in counts:
> print char, count
>
>
> s 3966
> d 3912
> g 3909
> h 3905
> a 3901
> u 3900
> q 3891
> m 3888
> k 3884
> b 3878
> x 3875
> v 3867
> w 3864
> y 3851
> l 3825
> z 3821
> c 3819
> e 3819
> r 3816
> n 3808
> o 3797
> f 3795
> t 3784
> p 3765
> j 3730
> i 3704
>
> Better, although still not perfect.

This distribution is well within expectations.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:02:07 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:02:07 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm40ju$96u$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 20:19, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 13:09 PM, mk wrote:
>> On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
>>> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
>>> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.
>>
>> Oh I hear you -- for production use I would (will) certainly consider
>> this. However, now I'm interested in the problem itself: why is the damn
>> distribution not uniform?
>
> You want "< 234", not "< 235". (234 % 26 == 0), so you get some extra 'a's.

Right, this explains the 'a' outlier. Fixed. But still:

import operator
import os
import random
import math

def rand_str_custom(n):
     s = os.urandom(n)
     return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in s if ord(x) < 
234])

def count_chars(chardict, word):
     for c in word:
         try:
             chardict[c] += 1
         except KeyError:
             chardict[c] = 0

def rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding(length):
     seed = os.urandom(32)
     random.seed(seed)
     prng = random.SystemRandom()
     chars = []
     for i in range(length):
         chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
     return ''.join(chars)

def rand_str_SystemRandom_noseeding(length):
     prng = random.SystemRandom()
     chars = []
     for i in range(length):
         chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
     return ''.join(chars)

def sd(x):
     sd.sum  += x
     sd.sum2 += x*x
     sd.n    += 1.0
     sum, sum2, n = sd.sum, sd.sum2, sd.n
     return math.sqrt(sum2/n - sum*sum/n/n)

def gen_rand_with_fun(fun):
     print fun.__name__
     chardict = {}
     for i in range(10000):
         w = fun(10)
         count_chars(chardict, w)
     counts = list(chardict.items())
     counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
     nums = [c[1] for c in counts]
     sd.sum = sd.sum2 = sd.n = 0
     mean = (1.0*sum(nums))/len(nums)
     stddev = map(sd, nums)[-1]
     print 'mean', mean, 'std dev', stddev
     for char, count in counts:
         print char, count, '%.2f' % ((count - mean)/stddev), 'std devs 
away from mean'

if __name__ == "__main__":
     gen_rand_with_fun(rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding)
     print
     gen_rand_with_fun(rand_str_SystemRandom_noseeding)
     print
     gen_rand_with_fun(rand_str_custom)




rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding
mean 3845.15384615 std dev 46.2016419186
l 3926 1.75 std devs away from mean
y 3916 1.53 std devs away from mean
d 3909 1.38 std devs away from mean
a 3898 1.14 std devs away from mean
p 3898 1.14 std devs away from mean
c 3889 0.95 std devs away from mean
u 3884 0.84 std devs away from mean
j 3873 0.60 std devs away from mean
n 3873 0.60 std devs away from mean
w 3866 0.45 std devs away from mean
x 3863 0.39 std devs away from mean
r 3855 0.21 std devs away from mean
m 3852 0.15 std devs away from mean
b 3841 -0.09 std devs away from mean
t 3835 -0.22 std devs away from mean
o 3829 -0.35 std devs away from mean
k 3827 -0.39 std devs away from mean
i 3821 -0.52 std devs away from mean
s 3812 -0.72 std devs away from mean
q 3806 -0.85 std devs away from mean
v 3803 -0.91 std devs away from mean
g 3799 -1.00 std devs away from mean
h 3793 -1.13 std devs away from mean
e 3782 -1.37 std devs away from mean
f 3766 -1.71 std devs away from mean
z 3758 -1.89 std devs away from mean

rand_str_SystemRandom_noseeding
mean 3845.15384615 std dev 55.670522726
i 3961 2.08 std devs away from mean
r 3911 1.18 std devs away from mean
e 3910 1.16 std devs away from mean
m 3905 1.08 std devs away from mean
a 3901 1.00 std devs away from mean
u 3893 0.86 std devs away from mean
t 3882 0.66 std devs away from mean
w 3872 0.48 std devs away from mean
s 3870 0.45 std devs away from mean
c 3868 0.41 std devs away from mean
n 3866 0.37 std devs away from mean
q 3865 0.36 std devs away from mean
k 3863 0.32 std devs away from mean
y 3848 0.05 std devs away from mean
j 3836 -0.16 std devs away from mean
v 3830 -0.27 std devs away from mean
f 3829 -0.29 std devs away from mean
z 3829 -0.29 std devs away from mean
g 3827 -0.33 std devs away from mean
l 3818 -0.49 std devs away from mean
b 3803 -0.76 std devs away from mean
d 3803 -0.76 std devs away from mean
p 3756 -1.60 std devs away from mean
x 3755 -1.62 std devs away from mean
h 3744 -1.82 std devs away from mean
o 3729 -2.09 std devs away from mean

rand_str_custom
mean 3517.15384615 std dev 40.7541336343
i 3586 1.69 std devs away from mean
a 3578 1.49 std devs away from mean
e 3575 1.42 std devs away from mean
m 3570 1.30 std devs away from mean
q 3562 1.10 std devs away from mean
c 3555 0.93 std devs away from mean
g 3552 0.86 std devs away from mean
w 3542 0.61 std devs away from mean
p 3536 0.46 std devs away from mean
x 3533 0.39 std devs away from mean
s 3528 0.27 std devs away from mean
o 3524 0.17 std devs away from mean
d 3516 -0.03 std devs away from mean
t 3515 -0.05 std devs away from mean
h 3511 -0.15 std devs away from mean
v 3502 -0.37 std devs away from mean
z 3502 -0.37 std devs away from mean
b 3500 -0.42 std devs away from mean
f 3496 -0.52 std devs away from mean
u 3492 -0.62 std devs away from mean
l 3486 -0.76 std devs away from mean
r 3478 -0.96 std devs away from mean
n 3476 -1.01 std devs away from mean
j 3451 -1.62 std devs away from mean
k 3450 -1.65 std devs away from mean
y 3430 -2.14 std devs away from mean


It would appear that SystemRandom().choice is indeed best (in terms of 
how much the counts stray from mean in std devs), but only after seeding 
it with os.urandom.


Regards,
mk




From mrkafk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:06:00 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:06:00 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm3up1$1fc$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.180.1267036529.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3up1$1fc$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm40r6$a0k$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 20:30, Michael Rudolf wrote:
>>> The reason is 256 % 26 != 0
>>> 256 mod 26 equals 22, thus your code is hitting a-v about 10% (256/26 is
>>> approx. 10) more often than w-z.
>>
>> <Barbie voice>writing secure code is hard...
>
> So true. That's why one should stick to standard libs when it comes to
> crypto or security in general. It's just to easy to mess it up. Just ask
> Debian about whether touching OpenSSL was a good idea ;)

That was brain-dead hiccup, for crying out loud how could they do smth 
so stupid.

>> def gen_rand_word(n):
>> with open('/dev/urandom') as f:
>> return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in f.read(n) if ord(x)
>> > 22])
>
> Off-by-one-error: you're skipping len(range(22))==23 hits.

Argh, it's late here.

> Well, I really think that you should use repeated Random.choice on an
> alphabet.
> Or Random.Systemrandom.choice if you don't trust the PRNG.

I just posted a comparison with calculating std deviations for various 
methods - using os.urandom, SystemRandom.choice with seeding and without 
seeding.

They all seem to have slightly different distributions.

Regards,
mk




From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 15:09:54 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:09:54 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.190.1267041740.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x3a0qpf8t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
> def rand_str_custom(n):
>     s = os.urandom(n)
>     return ''.join([chr(ord('a') + ord(x) % 26) for x in s if ord(x) < 234])

Note that simply throws away some of the chars.  You have to replace
them, not throw them away.

> rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding
> mean 3845.15384615 std dev 46.2016419186
> l 3926 1.75 std devs away from mean
> y 3916 1.53 std devs away from mean
... 

What do you think you're measuring here?  Yes, if you're doing 1000's of
draws from a distribution, you'd expect a few of them to be 1.75 sigma
from the mean.  Since there are 26 letters, you'd expect a multinomial
distribution which you can test for with the multinomial test or some
approximation from the article:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinomial_test

I wish I knew more statistics than I do, since there is probably some
more familiar statistical test (e.g. the T-test) that you can use as the
number of trials gets large, since each bin of the multinomial
distribution should eventually start to look like a normal distribution
due to the central limit theorem.  Others here know a lot more about
this stuff than I do, and can probably give better advice.

Anyway though, the output of os.urandom should be extremely hard to
distinguish from real randomness (that's the whole point of a
cryptographic PRNG).


From skylarking11 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:15:30 2010
From: skylarking11 at gmail.com (Sky Larking)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:15:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with ftplib uploading to an FTP server
Message-ID: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

This bit of code is designed to get the external IP address and
hostname of a client , write it locally to a file, then upload to an
FTP server. It works locally( one can see the IP number and hostname
with a time stamp in /Users/admin/Documents) , but when the file is
opened on the server after it's FTP'ed , it's blank....I think my
issue is something with the way I am utilizing the ftplib commands...
I am pretty sure instead of FTPing the file, it's just creating a new
one with the same name and uploading that?

This script is running on some OS X 10.5 clients and reporting back to
an Ubuntu 8.04 server...I am using the version of python bundled with
10.5.x ( 2.5.1 )

****************************************************************
import os
import datetime
import ftplib
import urllib2


currdate = datetime.datetime.now()
formatdate = currdate.strftime("%m-%d-%Y %H%M")

def log():

    fqn = os.uname()[1]
    ext_ip = urllib2.urlopen('http://whatismyip.org').read()
    log = open ('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','w')
    log.write(str("Asset: %s " % fqn))
    log.write(str("Checking in from IP#: %s" % ext_ip))
    smush = str(fqn +' @ ' + formatdate)
    os.rename('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','/Users/admin/
Documents/%s.txt' %  smush )
    s = ftplib.FTP('10.7.1.71','username','password')
    fd = open('/Users/admin/Documents/%s.txt' % smush,'rb')
    s.storbinary("STOR %s.txt" % smush , fd)

*****************************************************************************



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:20:37 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:20:37 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm40ju$96u$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org>	<hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm40ju$96u$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm41ml$cpk$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 14:02 PM, mk wrote:

> It would appear that SystemRandom().choice is indeed best (in terms of
> how much the counts stray from mean in std devs), but only after seeding
> it with os.urandom.

Calling random.seed() does not affect SystemRandom() whatsoever. You are getting 
perfectly acceptable distributions for all three variants.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From andrewpdavison at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 15:21:21 2010
From: andrewpdavison at gmail.com (Andrew Davison)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:21:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Artificial Neural Networks recommendation
References: <mailman.157.1267015802.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cde40d7f-30c8-4d8f-bcaa-904838dd50e0@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 1:49?pm, Gereon Kaiping <gereon.kaip... at yahoo.de> wrote:
> - - PyNN (just a builder, requires external simulator) ?http://neuralensemble.org/trac/PyNN/
> - - Con-x (part of pyro) ?http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=Conx
> - - PyNeurGen (includes genetic algorithms) ?http://pyneurgen.sourceforge.net/
> - - ffnet (only fast forward) ?http://ffnet.sourceforge.net/
> - - brian (spiking networks) ?http://www.briansimulator.org/
> - - PyBrain (machine learning) ?http://pybrain.org/
>
> Can you give me a recommendation or a review on some of these?

PyNN and Brian are intended more for biologically-realistic neural
networks (for some value of realistic), aka neuronal networks, so I
guess you can rule them out (similar tools that you might come across
are NEST, NEURON, PCSIM).

Cheers,

Andrew


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Wed Feb 24 15:23:03 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:23:03 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
Message-ID: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>

Hi all,

a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
this:

"""Function that does stuff"""
def doStuff():
    while not wise(up):
        yield scorn

Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From brixomatic at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 24 15:40:10 2010
From: brixomatic at yahoo.com (Wanja Gayk)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:40:10 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>

Am 24.02.2010, 00:22 Uhr, schrieb Lawrence D'Oliveiro  
<ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand>:

>> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
>> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
>> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM
>
> Python is still faster, though.

In synthetic microbenchmarks without any practical importance - possibly.

> I think a key reason is that its VM supports
> reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.

Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
Modern Java VM won't count references. They will just trace the active  
references from the rootand mark all objects it finds as active and save  
these. The remaining ones are garbage. The reason why this is faster is  
that there are usually less live objects than dead ones and there are less  
refereces to look at.

kind regards

W

-- 
Erstellt mit Operas revolution?rem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news at netfront.net ---


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 24 15:56:06 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:56:06 +0000
Subject: Trouble with ftplib uploading to an FTP server
In-Reply-To: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B859266.5090201@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Sky Larking wrote:
> This bit of code is designed to get the external IP address and
> hostname of a client , write it locally to a file, then upload to an
> FTP server. It works locally( one can see the IP number and hostname
> with a time stamp in /Users/admin/Documents) , but when the file is
> opened on the server after it's FTP'ed , it's blank....I think my
> issue is something with the way I am utilizing the ftplib commands...
> I am pretty sure instead of FTPing the file, it's just creating a new
> one with the same name and uploading that?
> 
> This script is running on some OS X 10.5 clients and reporting back to
> an Ubuntu 8.04 server...I am using the version of python bundled with
> 10.5.x ( 2.5.1 )
> 
> ****************************************************************
> import os
> import datetime
> import ftplib
> import urllib2
> 
> 
> currdate = datetime.datetime.now()
> formatdate = currdate.strftime("%m-%d-%Y %H%M")
> 
> def log():
> 
>     fqn = os.uname()[1]
>     ext_ip = urllib2.urlopen('http://whatismyip.org').read()
>     log = open ('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','w')
>     log.write(str("Asset: %s " % fqn))
>     log.write(str("Checking in from IP#: %s" % ext_ip))
>     smush = str(fqn +' @ ' + formatdate)
>     os.rename('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','/Users/admin/
> Documents/%s.txt' %  smush )

You're renaming the file while it's still open. What you've written is
still in the buffer, not on disk.

>     s = ftplib.FTP('10.7.1.71','username','password')
>     fd = open('/Users/admin/Documents/%s.txt' % smush,'rb')
>     s.storbinary("STOR %s.txt" % smush , fd)
> 
> *****************************************************************************
> 



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 16:00:19 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:00:19 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.191.1267042207.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.180.1267036529.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm3up1$1fc$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.191.1267042207.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4414$2ag$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 24.02.2010 21:06, schrieb mk:
>
> I just posted a comparison with calculating std deviations for various
> methods - using os.urandom, SystemRandom.choice with seeding and without
> seeding.

I saw them

> They all seem to have slightly different distributions.

No they don't. Just run those tests again and you will see that you 
cannot put them in any order or behaviour. They are all correct now, 
except that you cannot seed SystemRandom, as it is *not* a PRNG (at 
least here, it is a wrapper for /dev/random)

Regards,
Michael


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 16:06:22 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:06:22 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm44d2$nsi$1@dough.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>> Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>> distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>> content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>>
>> The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>> stop the message being spam when posted here.
> 
> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?  I don't think many people would call
> it spam, just an off-topic post.  From my POV, spam is defined a bit more
> narrowly.

Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to ten
of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well be).

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From news123 at free.fr  Wed Feb 24 16:21:59 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:21:59 +0100
Subject: Help with lambda
In-Reply-To: <39ded391-c814-4c17-936f-3a4f55c3d9ec@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <cde5b5f1-b01c-4f60-a90c-ec6d2e4063f4@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
	<39ded391-c814-4c17-936f-3a4f55c3d9ec@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b859877$0$23912$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Feb 18, 4:28 am, lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
>> f = [lambda x: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> 
> This is (pretty much) what the above code does.
> 
>>>> f = []
>>>> n = 2
>>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>>> n = 3
>>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>>> n = 4
>>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
>>>> n = 5
>>>> f.append(lambda x: x**n)
> 
> Now, when you call f[0], you are calling "lambda x: x**n". What is
> "n"?
> 


If you use a newer version of python (>= 2.5), then you might want to
look at functools.partial.


> def pow(a,n):
>     return a ** n
> 
> f = [functools.partial(pow,n=n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]
> 


Not sure, whether there's any (dis)advantage over
> f = [lambda x,n=n: x ** n for n in xrange(2, 5)]
or
> f = [lambda x,n=n: pow(x,n) for n in xrange(2, 5)]




bye

N





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Feb 24 16:29:18 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:29:18 -0500
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
Message-ID: <hm45ne$rnr$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/24/2010 5:14 AM, Lars Gust?bel wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
>> I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
>> TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
>> search while they have a doc string:
>>
>> http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=gzopen
>> http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html?highlight=tarfile#tarfile.TarFile
>>
>> See script at the end for list of class methods.
>>
>> Is this "by design" or is there some an odd bug in doc generation lurking
>> around? This somehow seem to be specific to module tarfile. Fraction
>> classmethod from_float() is available in the documentation and found by a
>> search for example...
>
> First of all, Python's module documentation is not generated from module
> docstrings, each module has its own rst text file in the documentation tree
> instead.
>
> But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class has
> three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
> compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
> classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
> method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
> decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
> does many more other high-level things as well.

By current standards, the three private methods should be prefixed with 
'_' to indicate their private status. Could they be changed to head off 
such questions?

Terry Jan Reedy




From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 16:39:44 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:39:44 +0100
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <7ulkl0F6acU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 24.02.10 00:08, schrieb monkeys paw:
> On 2/23/2010 3:17 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> monkeys paw wrote:
>>> I used the following code to download a PDF file, but the
>>> file was invalid after running the code, is there problem
>>> with the write operation?
>>>
>>> import urllib2
>>> url = 'http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'
>>> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'w')
>>
>> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?
>
> 'wb' does the trick. Thanks all!
>
> Here is the final working code, i used an index(i)
> to see how many reads took place, i have to assume there is
> a default buffer size:
>
> import urllib2
> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
> i = 0
> for line in
> urllib2.urlopen('http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'):
>
> i = i + 1
> a.write(line)
>
> print "Number of reads: %d" % i
> a.close()
>
>
> NEW QUESTION if y'all are still reading:
>
> Is there an integer increment operation in Python? I tried
> using i++ but had to revert to 'i = i + 1'


Instead, use enumerate:

for i, line in enumerate(...):
     ...


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 16:50:04 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:50:04 +0100
Subject: compiling python question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.149.1266976820.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.149.1266976820.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B859F0C.1060308@nospam.web.de>

Am 24.02.10 03:00, schrieb Mag Gam:
> I am trying to compile python with Tk bindings. Do I need to do
> anything special for python to detect and enable Tk?

What OS? What does the configure/build process say?

Diez


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Wed Feb 24 16:52:26 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:52:26 +0000
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <m24ol6gv39.fsf@googlemail.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>>
>>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>>
>>Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>>distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>>content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>>
>>The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>>stop the message being spam when posted here.
>
> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?

Are they really good?  Sounds good, spinach lasagne, I don't know a
recipe for them.  Maybe you could post it as Python code, with a lot of
nested if-then-else clauses, of course :)

-- 
Arnaud


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 16:54:25 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:54:25 +1300
Subject: Problem creating executable, with PyQwt
References: <hlsie7$5s7$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlsl2u$k84$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
	<hlvlom$vfk$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hm1kps$lm8$1@get-news01.get.basefarm.net>
Message-ID: <hm476g$gom$1@speranza.aioe.org>

David Boddie wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 February 2010 05:32, Gib Bogle wrote:
> 
>> David Boddie wrote:
>>
>>> I have previously referred people with py2exe/PyQt issues to this page on
>>> the PyQt Wiki:
>>>
>>>   http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Py2exeAndPyQt
>>>
>>> If you can somehow convince py2exe to include the QtSvg module (and
>>> presumably the libQtSvg library as well) then perhaps that will solve
>>> this problem.
>>>
>>> David
>> Thanks David, that worked a treat.  :-)
> 
> If you could update the Wiki (or maybe the py2exe Wiki, if they have one)
> to say what you did, that would be useful for others in the future. Then
> they'll only be one search away from the answer. :-)
> 
> David

OK, I'll put it on the to-do list.

Gib


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Feb 24 16:54:52 2010
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:54:52 -0800
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger
<usenot at geekmail.invalid> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
>
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
> ? ?while not wise(up):
> ? ? ? ?yield scorn
>
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>

kill -9 seems to work for me.

You may want to explain, one day, why what they are doing is wrong.

-- 
Jonathan Gardner
jgardner at jonathangardner.net


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 16:59:18 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:59:18 +1300
Subject: Files required for porting python
References: <79cb0516-c7ee-4ebd-b9ad-152c8371e1de@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm47fl$gom$2@speranza.aioe.org>

KIRAN wrote:

"I see lot of code with several files."

I had to laugh at this.


From no.email at please.post  Wed Feb 24 17:35:31 2010
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:35:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to monitor memory usage within Python? (Linux)
Message-ID: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>





Is there some standard module for getting info about the process's
memory usage, in a Linux/Unix system?

(I want to avoid hacks that involve, e.g., scraping ps's output.)

Thanks!

~K


From dontsendleospam at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 17:37:42 2010
From: dontsendleospam at gmail.com (dontspamleo)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:37:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Hi Folks,

Thanks everyone for the great contributions! I understand this better
now. The distinction between a shorthand for a function definition and
a shorthand for a loop iteration is crucial.

Also: thanks for pointing out the even the list comprehension doesn't
work in py3. That was incredibly useful! I was about to build a
package using Python and now (unfortunately) I will have to find
another language. Saved me a big headache!

More details...

>
> I can't reproduce the error message that you cite.
>

Sorry, I made a cut and paste error in my first post. The error was
exactly the one in your post.

> Reason for the NameError:
>
> The above is a /generator expression/, evaluated in a class definition.
>
> The docs have a similar example but I'm sorry, I'm unable to find it! Anyway the
> generator expression is evaluated as if its code was put in function. And from
> within the scope of that function you can't access the class scope implicitly,
> hence, no access to 'B'.
>
<snip/>
>
> This is a /list comprehension/, not a generator expression (although
> syntactically it's almost the same).
>
> It obeys different rules.
>
> Essentially the generator expression produces a generator object that you may
> name or pass around as you wish, while the comprehension is just a syntactical
> device for writing more concisely some equivalent code that's generated inline.
>
> However, apparently the rules changed between Python 2.x and Python 3.x.
>
> In Python 3.x also the list comprehension fails in a class definition:
>
</snip>
> C:\test> py3
> Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> ?>>> class T:
> ... ? A = range(2)
> ... ? B = range(4)
> ... ? s = sum([(i*j) for i in A for j in B])
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in T
> ? ?File "<stdin>", line 4, in <listcomp>
> NameError: global name 'B' is not defined
> ?>>> exit()

Yuck! Why should the list comprehension fail in Py3? The scope rules
that explain why the generator expression would fail don't apply in
that case. Plus Guido's comment on generators being consumed quickly
also doesn't apply.

>
> ?From one point of view it's good that Py3 provides about the same behavior for
> generator expressions and list comprehensions.
>
> But I'd really like the above examples to Just Work. :-)
>

Absolutely agreed. Especially with the list comprehension.

I read PEP 289 and the 2004 exchanges in the mailing list regarding
scoping and binding issues in generator expressions, when this feature
was added to the language. Forgive my blasphemy, but Guido got it
wrong on this one, by suggesting that an obscure use case should drive
design considerations when a far more common use case exists. The
obscure use case involves confusing sequences of exceptions, while the
common use case is consistent scope rules at different levels. For
details search the mailing list for Guido's quote in PEP 289.

Here is another example that fails...
In [7]: class T:
   ...:     A = range(2)
   ...:     B = range(2,4)
   ...:     g = (i*j for i in A for j in B)
   ...:     s = sum(g)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
NameError                                 Traceback (most recent call
last)
C:\Python26\<ipython console> in <module>()
C:\Python26\<ipython console> in T()
C:\Python26\<ipython console> in <genexpr>((i,))
NameError: global name 'B' is not defined

... at sum(g)!

These two examples work (doing the same thing at a global scope and a
local scope):

In [1]: class T:
   ...:     def local(self):
   ...:         A = range(2)
   ...:         B = range(2,4)
   ...:         g = (i*j for i in A for j in B)
   ...:         s = sum(g)
   ...:
In [2]: t = T()
In [3]: t.local()
In [4]: A = range(2)
In [5]: B = range(2,4)
In [6]: g = (i*j for i in A for j in B)
In [7]: s = sum(g)

Thanks to everyone who suggested workarounds. They are very helpful.
At the same time, they are -- forgive my language -- so perlish (as in
clever, and requiring deep understanding of the language). In Python,
simple elegant constructs should work consistently across all scopes.
The very fact that people chose to use the word 'workaround' indicates
how quirky this aspect of the language is.

It really doesn't need to be so quirky. Defining the semantics of
generator expressions to mimic Arnaud's lambda workaround below would
be just as justified as the current definition, and more pythonic (in
the consistent, elegant sense). @Arnaud: I tried to find your earlier
post -- googled "Arnaud lambda" -- but couldn't.

Does anyone know of a more recent PEP that addresses these issues?

Thanks,
Leo.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 17:41:03 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:41:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4ed45391-dc4f-43ef-ab56-6743e71a31a0@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

> After all, from what I've seen since then, the practice of
> triple-quote-commenting (or TQC, pardon the TCA) is in fact quite
> common.
>
> Is TQC OK after all?
>
> If not, what's the case against it?

I have no sense of how approved it is, and don't have a strong opinion
on it, but I would think that some cases against it could be:

- It's used for docstrings, so when you scan code it is harder to
instantly find comment blocks or docstrings if IDE parsers color code
comments differently than docstrings.  An IDE I use (Boa Constructor)
uses "# XXX [comment]" as a comment that means "add to the to-do list"
as well.

- If you want to search for comments easily, you can search for #,
which will probably only bring you to comments, whereas if you search
for quote marks, they could be used in a number of different ways in
the code.

- Adhering to coding conventions is a good thing in open source
applications.




From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 17:48:54 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:48:54 +0100
Subject: How to monitor memory usage within Python? (Linux)
In-Reply-To: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7ulomnFtk5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 24.02.10 23:35, schrieb kj:
> Is there some standard module for getting info about the process's
> memory usage, in a Linux/Unix system?
>
> (I want to avoid hacks that involve, e.g., scraping ps's output.)

http://code.google.com/p/pympler/

Diez


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 17:58:17 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 14:58:17 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4au9$skh$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Terry Reedy  <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>Confusing generators and generator functions is, well, confusing.
>For future reference, and clarity of communication in Pythonland,
>
>generator function: function that produces a generator when called; if 
>python coded, its body contains 'yield'.
>
>generator: iterator produced by a generator function; has .__next__ and 
>self-returning .__init__, like all other iterators.
>
>generator expression: an expression that evaluates to a generator; the 
>expression is used to create a temporary anonymous generator function 
>that is called to produce the generator and is then discarded.

My preference is to use the terms "generator" and "generator iterator"
(abbreviated "gen iter" or "geniter").
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 18:01:02 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 15:01:02 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4b3e$18a$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Steve Holden  <steve at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
>> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>>>
>>>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>>>
>>> Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>>> distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>>> content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>>>
>>> The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>>> stop the message being spam when posted here.
>> 
>> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
>> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?  I don't think many people would call
>> it spam, just an off-topic post.  From my POV, spam is defined a bit more
>> narrowly.
>
>Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
>e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to ten
>of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well be).

That's roughly correct, but I also think that if someone posts the same
message to five mailing lists, it's not unreasonable to call that
spamming.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 18:01:52 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 15:01:52 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hm4b50$jmj$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>
>> Joan Miller is a regular poster; this is off-topic, but it's not spam.
>
>Non sequitur. Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its
>distribution (to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its
>content (off-topic and unsolicited).
>
>The message is important, its poster is a regular here; that doesn't
>stop the message being spam when posted here.

Moreover, by your definition, your post above counts as spam.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 18:05:09 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 15:05:09 -0800
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4bb5$gn4$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Ryan Kelly  <ryan at rfk.id.au> wrote:
>
>Yes.  The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
>application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
>executable file.  As long as you don't change python versions, this
>allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
>without atomic file replacement.
>
>So the frozen app does this in a background thread:
>
>   Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()
>
>And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
>unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory.  Et
>viola, your app is at the latest version.

How does this work with a running app?  What if the app is a service?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Feb 24 18:05:35 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:05:35 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <7ulpm0F3kiU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 24.02.10 12:42, schrieb Michael Rudolf:
> First: Thanks for all the replies so far, they really helped me.
>
> Am 24.02.2010 11:28, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>>> >>> def a(x=None):
>>> if x is None:
>>> pass
>>> else:
>>> pass
>>>
>> This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 docstring,
>> 1 way do do it, 1 interface.
>
> Yes, I see. Actually I do now realize that even in Java I use method
> overloading mostly to implement optional arguments anyway, like:
>
> void constructor(){this.foo='foo'; this.initotherstuff();}
> void constructor(int x) {this.x=x; this.constructor();}
>
> and so on.
>
> So most of the time the idiom above is exactly what I need, as the
> versions of the function share code anyway.
>
> But there are also cases where they do something completely different -
> in these cases I might use one of the other solutions provided here or
> simply make two or three functions and name them appropiately.
>
> I do now see that the pythonic approach is the "best" for most cases,
> but I really loved to see that you *can* do overloading in a convenient
> way if you really want to :D Those decorators just rock :D

You can do, see packages such as PEAK rules. They offer not only 
type-based overloading, but also value-based.

Diez


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Wed Feb 24 18:08:18 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:08:18 +0100
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
In-Reply-To: <hm4au9$skh$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<4b7ec87f$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7a9c25c21002190944ucfcd964m6914fbb344a63f31@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4au9$skh$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm4bh2$3k4$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 24.02.2010 23:58, schrieb Aahz:
> (abbreviated "gen iter" or "geniter").

lol I don't know why, but this sounds like a sex toy to me ;)

Regards,
Michael


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 18:22:47 2010
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:22:47 GMT
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bxihn.9635$pv.828@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Steve Holden:

> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
> e-mail.

   Spam is more commonly defined as UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email) of
which UCE is a large subset. Its just as much spam if its pushing a
political party or charity even though there may be no commercial
advantage to the poster.

   Neil


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Wed Feb 24 18:30:07 2010
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:30:07 +1100
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
In-Reply-To: <hm4bb5$gn4$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2757.1266538782.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<7e9b9f31-a9a3-4b8c-a6d9-df9a1092e9ee@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4bb5$gn4$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1267054207.2598.3.camel@rambutan>

On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 15:05 -0800, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list at python.org>,
> Ryan Kelly  <ryan at rfk.id.au> wrote:
> >
> >Yes.  The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
> >application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
> >executable file.  As long as you don't change python versions, this
> >allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
> >without atomic file replacement.
> >
> >So the frozen app does this in a background thread:
> >
> >   Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()
> >
> >And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
> >unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory.  Et
> >viola, your app is at the latest version.
> 
> How does this work with a running app?  What if the app is a service?

The changes will only take effect the next time the app is started -
currently there's no support for "hot upgrading" a running app.

Would definitely be an interesting feature though...


   Ryan

-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 18:36:54 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 15:36:54 -0800
Subject: How to make an empty generator?
References: <mailman.2750.1266535879.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<mailman.2802.1266607542.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4au9$skh$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<hm4bh2$3k4$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm4d6m$fv5$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <hm4bh2$3k4$1 at news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>,
Michael Rudolf  <spamfresser at ch3ka.de> wrote:
>Am 24.02.2010 23:58, schrieb Aahz:
>>
>> (abbreviated "gen iter" or "geniter").
>
>lol I don't know why, but this sounds like a sex toy to me ;)

<smirk>  And I thought only smutty Americans would have that twitch.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From soniyaa1111 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 18:39:57 2010
From: soniyaa1111 at gmail.com (soniyaa 1111)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 15:39:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: first website developed on new innovative shopping model
Message-ID: <6772fae0-6392-413a-b5fa-2b37637a2d7a@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

http://www.shoppingreps.com?SourceId=1259 is the first website
developed on new innovative shopping model. Group bargaining through
social networking targeted towards volume discounts. It has presented
a suitable platform to reflect this novel shopping idea. This concept
and methodology is new to the internet world. The website offers free
membership to the shoppers and vendors. It encourages shoppers to
acquire quotes for themselves when a group is formed. The shoppers
will know the size of the group and the complete product details for
which they will be requested to fetch quotes from their own
localities. Shoppers get their chance of testing their bargain
capabilities and enjoy the benefits and fun of bargaining for a bulk
order and a group.


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Wed Feb 24 18:42:47 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:42:47 -0000
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <op.u8nn5ldha8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 13:41:08 -0000, Luis M. Gonz?lez <luismgz at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> This is the only way I know to define variables programatically in the
> top-level namespace, without having to do it manually one by one.

We see requests for this a lot, and the response that's frequently missed  
amongst all the technical trickery is "What on earth makes you think that  
defining variables programatically will help?"  Usually the sensible thing  
is to collect such "variables" into a list or dictionary, since that's the  
only way you're going to access them safely without a whole heap more  
technical trickery.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 19:01:05 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:01:05 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <bxihn.9635$pv.828@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<bxihn.9635$pv.828@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <hm4ekp$s4h$1@dough.gmane.org>

Neil Hodgson wrote:
> Steve Holden:
> 
>> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
>> e-mail.
> 
>    Spam is more commonly defined as UBE (Unsolicited Bulk Email) of
> which UCE is a large subset. Its just as much spam if its pushing a
> political party or charity even though there may be no commercial
> advantage to the poster.

>From my point of view that's a far better definition. Thanks.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 19:08:38 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:08:38 -0600
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <hm4b3e$18a$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4b3e$18a$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm4f28$tid$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 17:01 PM, Aahz wrote:
> In article<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list at python.org>,
> Steve Holden<steve at holdenweb.com>  wrote:

>> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
>> e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to ten
>> of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well be).
>
> That's roughly correct, but I also think that if someone posts the same
> message to five mailing lists, it's not unreasonable to call that
> spamming.

This accords with my understanding of the term and, it appears, that of Wikipedia:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroup_spam

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 19:15:24 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 16:15:24 -0800
Subject: Executing Python code on another computer
References: <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm4fes$psb$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <f1e754e0-05d0-4236-97f7-8a16bed00c03 at g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
SiWi  <wimmersimon at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>So I wondered if it was possible to send the Python code I'm developing
>on the netbook to the workstation pc via wlan, let the script execute
>on the workstation pc and write the output back on the netbook.
>
>Is there any possibilty to achieve that goal?

Fabric might help, but I think it relies on ssh.  py.test also has remote
capabilities.

http://fabfile.org/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Feb 24 19:17:58 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:17:58 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hm4fit$v08$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/24/2010 4:54 PM, Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger
> <usenot at geekmail.invalid>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
>> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
>> this:
>>
>> """Function that does stuff"""
>> def doStuff():
>>     while not wise(up):
>>         yield scorn
>>
>> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
>> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>>
>
> kill -9 seems to work for me.
>
> You may want to explain, one day, why what they are doing is wrong.
>

They are thinking in JavaDoc, not Python.

#------------------------------
"""Function that does stuff"""
def doStuff():
     while not wise(up):
         yield scorn


def doOtherStuff():
     """Function that does stuff"""
     while wise(up):
         yield joy

print doStuff.__doc__
print doOtherStuff.__doc__
#------------------------------

program output:

None
Function that does stuff

-John



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 19:22:45 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 00:22:45 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.00.22.45@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:23:03 +0100, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
> 
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
>     while not wise(up):
>         yield scorn
> 
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?


Well, the above isn't *wrong* as such, it is equivalent to:


# Function that does stuff
def doStuff():
    while not wise(up):
        yield scorn


which means the biggest problem is that they had the perfect opportunity 
to create a useful docstring and instead f***ed it up by turning it into 
a useless comment.

The best way to teach them better is to introduce them to the joys of 
help(doStuff) and doctests.




-- 
Steven


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 24 19:39:08 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:39:08 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steve Holden <steve at holdenweb.com> writes:

> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
> e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to
> ten of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well
> be).

That excludes things like the religious screeds, or any other one-way
"get this message in front of as many eyeballs as possible" message.

Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in that
it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.

-- 
 \        ?I went to court for a parking ticket; I pleaded insanity. I |
  `\   said ?Your Honour, who in their right mind parks in the passing |
_o__)                                           lane??? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 24 19:41:55 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:41:55 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm4b50$jmj$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <874ol65ep8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> >Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its distribution
> >(to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its content
> >(off-topic and unsolicited).
[?]

> Moreover, by your definition, your post above counts as spam.

No. Again, as several others have pointed out, discussions about how the
forum should operate (meta-discussions, if you like) are on-topic in the
forum.

That's not to say they should dominate the forum, of course.

-- 
 \     ?I must say that I find television very educational. The minute |
  `\       somebody turns it on, I go to the library and read a book.? |
_o__)                                                    ?Groucho Marx |
Ben Finney


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 19:51:20 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 00:51:20 GMT
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.00.51.21@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:18:27 +0000, kj wrote:

> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across the
> commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT LINES OF
> CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find it!
> 
> Is my memory playing me a trick?
> 
> After all, from what I've seen since then, the practice of
> triple-quote-commenting (or TQC, pardon the TCA) is in fact quite
> common.

Oooh, I hope not... for anything but Q&D scripting, folks should be using 
source control rather than filling their source code up with vast lumps 
of old dead code.


> Is TQC OK after all?

Only if you're lazy and slack, and being lazy and slack is itself only 
okay if you are only lazy and slack *a very little bit*. In a small 
script, using test-driven development, it is acceptable to comment out 
dead code for a single test run. At the end of the run, you either 
reverse the commenting out, or you delete the dead code.

 
> If not, what's the case against it?

Commenting out dead code is, itself, a BAD THING, regardless of whether 
you use comments or triple-quotes.

http://www.coderenaissance.com/2008/09/quit-commenting-out-dead-code.html


Triple-quoted comments are worrying, though, because the result of them 
is not specified by the language. (Other than docstrings, of course.) The 
CPython compiler optimizes them away at compile time, so they have no 
runtime influence at all, but other implementations may not include this 
optimization and so the string gets compiled into the byte-code, created 
at runtime, then immediately deleted. Ouch.



-- 
Steven


From magawake at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 19:55:25 2010
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:55:25 -0500
Subject: compiling python question
In-Reply-To: <4B859F0C.1060308@nospam.web.de>
References: <mailman.149.1266976820.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4B859F0C.1060308@nospam.web.de>
Message-ID: <1cbd6f831002241655p2642ac10pa6c43598dcf98896@mail.gmail.com>

sorry for the vague answer.

Its Linux.

The configure build does not say anything actually. This is for SAGE.
I managed to have it pick it up by compiling/installing tcl and tk and
then recompile python


On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Diez B. Roggisch <deets at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 24.02.10 03:00, schrieb Mag Gam:
>>
>> I am trying to compile python with Tk bindings. Do I need to do
>> anything special for python to detect and enable Tk?
>
> What OS? What does the configure/build process say?
>
> Diez
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Feb 24 19:56:04 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 24 Feb 2010 16:56:04 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hm4b50$jmj$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<874ol65ep8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hm4hr4$c9r$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <874ol65ep8.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>> In article <87sk8r5v2f.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
>> Ben Finney  <ben+python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>Spam is spam, not by who authors or posts it, but by its distribution
>>>(to many people, e.g. via a forum like this one) and its content
>>>(off-topic and unsolicited).
>>
>> Moreover, by your definition, your post above counts as spam.
>
>No. Again, as several others have pointed out, discussions about how the
>forum should operate (meta-discussions, if you like) are on-topic in the
>forum.

We already agreed that the original post was not appropriate for c.l.py;
further discussion about the precise term for describing that post is
off-topic.  Therefore, by your definition, your post is spam.  My point
is that c.l.py is somewhat tolerant of off-topic posts, and generally
people who contribute to the newsgroup are more likely to get a pass on
off-topic posts.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 19:58:17 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:58:17 -0600
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <hm4hvb$5eh$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-24 18:39 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Steve Holden<steve at holdenweb.com>  writes:
>
>> Spam is, at least from my point of view, UCE: unsolicited commercial
>> e-mail. So anything that isn't commercial (like those "send these to
>> ten of your friends" emails) isn't spam (but it might just as well
>> be).
>
> That excludes things like the religious screeds, or any other one-way
> "get this message in front of as many eyeballs as possible" message.
>
> Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
> commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in that
> it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.

That said, in the context of USENET or mailing lists, a single off-topic post to 
a single group/list from a regular contributor is not usually considered "bulk 
messaging" or "spam". There is already a perfectly fine word for that: 
"off-topic". Only when it gets cross-posted excessively or repeated verbatim 
indiscriminately does it usually get designated spam.

I think there is an important distinction to be made between isolated off-topic 
messages and spam. It's not just about finding commonly agreed meanings of terms 
in aid of clear communication. There is a substantive difference. The repetitive 
nature of spam dictates what you can do about it. With spam, you can killfile 
people, or filter out certain hosts, or use statistical filters, or require 
registration or first-post moderation, etc. With the occasional off-topic post 
from a regular, you ask them not to do it again and subject them to unending 
threads about what spam is or isn't.

But you only break out the comfy chair for the very worst of the offenders.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 20:04:54 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 01:04:54 GMT
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.01.04.54@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:58:38 -0800, Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> I wonder why updating locals(), not from within a function, works (at
> least in my interactive session).

Because if you're in the global scope, locals() returns globals(), which 
is a real namespace and modifying it works.

Inside a function, locals() returns a dict which is a *copy* of the 
function namespace. The reason for this is that local namespaces are not 
actually dicts, and you can't modify them except by actually assigning 
and deleting names in code.


> And what about the trick of updating globals? Is it legal? If not, is
> there any "legal" way to do what the OP needs?

Yes, it is legal to modify globals(). It's just a dict, you can even do 
this:

>>> globals()[2] = 4
>>> globals()[2]
4

although that's a pretty useless trick.

But whether you should is another story. I won't say you should NEVER do 
so, but it should be rare to use global variables, and even rarer to 
create them programmatically. The better solution is almost always to 
create your own namespace, namely a dict, and use that explicitly.


-- 
Steven


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Wed Feb 24 20:05:30 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:05:30 +1300
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
Message-ID: <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:

> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.

It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things like

    contents = open(filename, "r").read()

and know the file object will be immediately closed after its contents are 
returned.

It also means I don?t have to predefine how much memory my program will use. 
A garbage collector will only kick in when the app runs low on memory. On a 
system with dynamic memory allocation, that will not happen until the entire 
system runs low on memory, unless you limit the app to some fixed amount. 
Which is an antiquated way of doing things.

And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to assumptions 
that programs will obey locality of reference. Pointer-chasing is a cache-
hostile activity. Garbage collection involves a lot of pointer-chasing, 
particularly of dead objects that have long since been flushed from the 
cache, compared with reference counting of recently-accessed objects. 
Therefore garbage collection loses performance.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 20:06:16 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 01:06:16 GMT
Subject: Use eval() safely?
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>
	<pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.153.1267002759.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.01.06.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:11:25 +0100, Dieter Maurer wrote:

> Using functionality introduced with the class/type homogenization, it is
> quite easy to get access to the "file" type (even when "__builtins__" is
> disabled). Having "file", arbitrary files can be read, written,
> destroyed...

Not that I don't believe you (I do!) but could you demonstrate for the 
record?



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 20:07:31 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 01:07:31 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.01.07.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:23:17 +0100, mk wrote:

> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for them,
> so they will not have to remember and type them in.

So to break your application's security model, all somebody has to do is 
use their PC and they have full access to their account?

Or get hold of the copy and paste buffer?

Or the application's config files?



> So I have little in
> the way of limitations of password length - even though in *some* cases
> somebody might have to (or be ignorant enough) to retype the password
> instead of pasting it in.

Or your users might be sensible enough to not trust a role-your-own 
security model, and prefer to memorize the password than to trust that 
nobody will get access to their PC.



> The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so the
> main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords using
> brute force.

And why would they bother doing that when they can sniff the wire and get 
the passwords in plain text? You should assume your attackers are 
*smarter* than you, not trust them to be foolish.


-- 
Steven


From skylarking11 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 20:21:58 2010
From: skylarking11 at gmail.com (Sky Larking)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:21:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with ftplib uploading to an FTP server
References: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.193.1267044970.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79927f7d-d186-46f1-ab58-94a8d5f973fc@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 3:56?pm, MRAB <pyt... at mrabarnett.plus.com> wrote:
> Sky Larking wrote:
> > This bit of code is designed to get the external IP address and
> > hostname of a client , write it locally to a file, then upload to an
> > FTP server. It works locally( one can see the IP number and hostname
> > with a time stamp in /Users/admin/Documents) , but when the file is
> > opened on the server after it's FTP'ed , it's blank....I think my
> > issue is something with the way I am utilizing the ftplib commands...
> > I am pretty sure instead of FTPing the file, it's just creating a new
> > one with the same name and uploading that?
>
> > This script is running on some OS X 10.5 clients and reporting back to
> > an Ubuntu 8.04 server...I am using the version of python bundled with
> > 10.5.x ( 2.5.1 )
>
> > ****************************************************************
> > import os
> > import datetime
> > import ftplib
> > import urllib2
>
> > currdate = datetime.datetime.now()
> > formatdate = currdate.strftime("%m-%d-%Y %H%M")
>
> > def log():
>
> > ? ? fqn = os.uname()[1]
> > ? ? ext_ip = urllib2.urlopen('http://whatismyip.org').read()
> > ? ? log = open ('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','w')
> > ? ? log.write(str("Asset: %s " % fqn))
> > ? ? log.write(str("Checking in from IP#: %s" % ext_ip))
> > ? ? smush = str(fqn +' @ ' + formatdate)
> > ? ? os.rename('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','/Users/admin/
> > Documents/%s.txt' % ?smush )
>
> You're renaming the file while it's still open. What you've written is
> still in the buffer, not on disk.
>
> > ? ? s = ftplib.FTP('10.7.1.71','username','password')
> > ? ? fd = open('/Users/admin/Documents/%s.txt' % smush,'rb')
> > ? ? s.storbinary("STOR %s.txt" % smush , fd)
>
> > *****************************************************************************
>
>

@ MRAB Thanks ...

I can see the file in /Users/admin/Documents after the following line
runs though?

os.rename('/Users/admin/Documents/locatelog.txt','/Users/admin/
Documents/%s.txt' %  smush )

For instance I just ran the script and os.rename() renamed it to:

TestMachine.local @ 02-24-2010 2020.txt

in that .txt file it reads:

Asset: TestMachine.local Checking in from IP#: xx.xxx.xx.xxx

This is what I want, but the FTP piece doesn't seem to work...



From mrjean1 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 20:27:05 2010
From: mrjean1 at gmail.com (MrJean1)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:27:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to monitor memory usage within Python? (Linux)
References: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <6b5de37c-4a7b-4ee7-b5c8-6f412e3dbbab@l12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

For Linux only

<http://code.activestate.com/recipes/286222/>

/Jean

On Feb 24, 2:35?pm, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> Is there some standard module for getting info about the process's
> memory usage, in a Linux/Unix system?
>
> (I want to avoid hacks that involve, e.g., scraping ps's output.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~K



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Feb 24 20:30:00 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 01:30:00 GMT
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:39:08 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:

> Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
> commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in that
> it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.

Not quite.

I've read tens of thousands of messages to comp.lang.python, and 
solicited perhaps some hundreds. Are all the rest spam? I should say not!
I haven't solicited them: at no point did I say, explicitly or 
implicitly, "Hey strangers all over the world, send me messages asking 
questions about Python" but I do welcome them.

(In fact, I'd be annoyed if everyone started sending the questions to me 
personally instead of to the list.)

I think it is foolish to try to create a water-tight definition of 
"spam". It is clearly a fuzzy concept, which means sometimes right-
thinking people can have legitimate disagreements as to whether or not 
something is "spam".

For example, I happen to think that the OP's message about Fascism is off-
topic but not spam. I think Joan is guilty of a breach of etiquette for 
failing to label it [OT] in the subject line, and she should have 
directed replies to a more appropriate forum (a mailing list, another 
newsgroup, a web forum, anywhere but here). But in my opinion, it didn't 
cross the line into spam. I wouldn't be the slightest bit tempted to 
killfile her, or flag the message as spam, in my mail/news client.

If other people feel differently, well, that's your personal choice. But 
please don't try to tell me that *my* line between spam and ham is wrong, 
and that *yours* is the only correct one. 

(That last response is aimed at a generic You, not Ben specifically. 
Stupid English language, why can't we have a word for generic you?)


-- 
Steven


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Wed Feb 24 20:31:31 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:31:31 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> writes:
> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for
> them, so they will not have to remember and type them in. 

It occurs to me that you don't even need to mess with letters in that
case:

   password = os.urandom(5).encode('hex')

will generate a string of 10 hex digits that you can give to the user.
(That is for Python 2.x but I think it might be broken in Python 3).

It might be helpful if you could say what your application does, or
anyway give an idea of what its actual security requirements are.
Generating and emailing someone a random password is a fairly standard
method for (e.g.) web forums to verify that the person has supplied a
working email address, basically as a first level spam filter.  Your
scheme is probably ok for that.  If you're doing something with more
demanding security requirements, then as mentioned before, there is a
whole lot of stuff you have to pay attention to, and focusing narrowly
on password generation isn't that useful.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 24 20:31:46 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:31:46 +1100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87vddm3xtp.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> [Reference counting] avoids the need for garbage collection. It means
> I can write things like
>
>     contents = open(filename, "r").read()
>
> and know the file object will be immediately closed after its contents
> are returned.

Not quite; it means you know that the object *becomes a candidate* for
cleanup immediately after its contents are returned.

When, or whether, that cleanup actually happens is not something that is
necessarily promised by a reference-counting implementation.

-- 
 \      ?I tell you the truth: some standing here will not taste death |
  `\     before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.? ?Jesus |
_o__)                     Christ, c. 30 CE, as quoted in Matthew 16:28 |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Feb 24 20:47:48 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:47:48 +1100
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> <87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <87r5oa3x2z.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:39:08 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
>
> > Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
> > commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in
> > that it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.
>
> Not quite.
>
> I've read tens of thousands of messages to comp.lang.python, and
> solicited perhaps some hundreds. Are all the rest spam? I should say
> not! I haven't solicited them: at no point did I say, explicitly or
> implicitly, "Hey strangers all over the world, send me messages asking
> questions about Python"

By subscribing to the forum, I maintain that you do exactly that.

> but I do welcome them.

Whether they're welcome or not, they're solicited in the sense of being
delivered to the recipient who explicitly asked to receive messages on a
particular range of topics.

When a message that is well outside the nominal range of topics for a
forum is broadcast to recipients by means of that forum, the message is
unsolicited.

-- 
 \         ?All my life I've had one dream: to achieve my many goals.? |
  `\                                            ?Homer, _The Simpsons_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From m.76ahesh at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 20:59:48 2010
From: m.76ahesh at gmail.com (hot girl)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
Message-ID: <9c9046ef-7e46-4b79-862e-e7d5be08d336@k41g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS.
CHECK OUR VAST PAPER PRESENTATIONS AND SEMIMAR TOPICS INCLUDING
PROJECTS FOR FREE AT
http://presentationsandseminars.blogspot.com


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Feb 24 21:04:01 2010
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:04:01 -0300
Subject: Easter Eggs
References: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8nuozc9x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>

En Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:40:50 -0300, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no>  
escribi?:

> I know 3 Python Easter Eggs,
>
>    from __future__ import braces
>    import this
>    help( "antigravity" )
>
> Are there more?

Also try:
import antigravity

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From roy at panix.com  Wed Feb 24 21:27:55 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:27:55 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<pan.2010.02.25.00.22.45@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <roy-267B47.21275524022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <pan.2010.02.25.00.22.45 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>,
 Steven D'Aprano <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> # Function that does stuff
> def doStuff():
>     while not wise(up):
>         yield scorn
> 
> 
> which means the biggest problem is that they had the perfect opportunity 
> to create a useful docstring and instead f***ed it up by turning it into 
> a useless comment.
> 
> The best way to teach them better is to introduce them to the joys of 
> help(doStuff) and doctests.

Try the ROI (Return On Investment) argument.

A programmer costs $X per hour (at first blush, take their salary, multiply 
by 1.5 for indirect costs, and divide by 2000 working hours per year).  It 
took them N minutes to write that text, so now you know how much that piece 
of text cost in dollars.

Given that you've invested that money, what's the best way to maximize your 
ROI?  Well, you could take that text, and put it in front of the 'def' 
line.  The ROI in that you can read the text when you view the source code.  
Perhaps by printing it out on green-bar, or carving it into clay tablets 
with a pointed stick.

Or, you could put it after the 'def' line.  Now, you can still read it when 
viewing the source file.  But, you can also access it with help().  Or by 
getting the functions __doc__ string.  Three times the ROI!  Even the most 
pointy-haired bean counter can grok the fullness of that.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 21:42:31 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:42:31 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
Message-ID: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Hi,
My student has been developing a GUI (using PyQt and PyQwt) that runs a model 
written in Fortran and built as a DLL.  She has to present on this work 
tomorrow.  She makes an executable version of the Python code with py2exe, and 
the executable runs fine on her Vista laptop and my XP machine.  It doesn't run 
on the PC that she must use for her talk tomorrow.  The Fortran DLL code is 
started up, it writes some text output to a couple of log files, then it fails 
with a WindowsError (000001d) which is a write error.  I suspect that this is 
the first attempt to write to a socket (communication from the DLL to Python is 
via sockets).  The only clue is that the machines that her program runs on have 
Python installed, while the one that fails doesn't.  Therefore I suspect that 
py2exe has omitted a necessary Python DLL.  How can I track down what might be 
missing?

Thanks
Gib


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Feb 24 22:10:14 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:10:14 +0000
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
In-Reply-To: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <4B85EA16.5090002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Gib Bogle wrote:
> Hi,
> My student has been developing a GUI (using PyQt and PyQwt) that runs a 
> model written in Fortran and built as a DLL.  She has to present on this 
> work tomorrow.  She makes an executable version of the Python code with 
> py2exe, and the executable runs fine on her Vista laptop and my XP 
> machine.  It doesn't run on the PC that she must use for her talk 
> tomorrow.  The Fortran DLL code is started up, it writes some text 
> output to a couple of log files, then it fails with a WindowsError 
> (000001d) which is a write error.  I suspect that this is the first 
> attempt to write to a socket (communication from the DLL to Python is 
> via sockets).  The only clue is that the machines that her program runs 
> on have Python installed, while the one that fails doesn't.  Therefore I 
> suspect that py2exe has omitted a necessary Python DLL.  How can I track 
> down what might be missing?
> 
You could try Dependency Walker: http://dependencywalker.com/



From bigblueswope at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 22:34:16 2010
From: bigblueswope at gmail.com (BJ Swope)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:34:16 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail (Was: fascism)
In-Reply-To: <hm3i9f$dt1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<hm0s98$b92$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm0sbv$b92$2@reader2.panix.com>
	<20100223110954.5da3d679.darcy@druid.net>
	<mailman.141.1266966371.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.38.39@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<4b848d96$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<mailman.150.1266979970.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm28pe$sj0$1@reader2.panix.com> <hm3i9f$dt1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <fca207171002241934o20dee6b3sb422c15a1291e0f5@mail.gmail.com>

>
> If you like, but I tend to interpret "meta-" as idempotent. It's easier on
> my aspirin budget.
>
> --
> Robert Kern

And here I thought it was little blue pills for idempotentcy...


----

Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate. -- brazzy

Auburn fans are like slinkys... not really good for anything but they
still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of
stairs.

To argue that honorable conduct is only required against an honorable
enemy degrades the Americans who must carry out the orders. -- Charles
Krulak, Former Commandant of the Marine Corps

We are all slave to our own paradigm. -- Joshua Williams

If the letters PhD appear after a person's name, that person will
remain outdoors even after it's started raining. -- Jeff Kay


From steve at holdenweb.com  Wed Feb 24 23:14:56 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:14:56 -0500
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hm4tg1$v02$1@dough.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:39:08 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> 
>> Spam is better defined as unsolicited bulk messaging. Whether it's
>> commercial in nature is irrelevant. The content is relevant only in that
>> it's unsolicited by the vast majority of its many recipients.
> 
> Not quite.
> 
> I've read tens of thousands of messages to comp.lang.python, and 
> solicited perhaps some hundreds. Are all the rest spam? I should say not!
> I haven't solicited them: at no point did I say, explicitly or 
> implicitly, "Hey strangers all over the world, send me messages asking 
> questions about Python" but I do welcome them.
> 
> (In fact, I'd be annoyed if everyone started sending the questions to me 
> personally instead of to the list.)
> 
> I think it is foolish to try to create a water-tight definition of 
> "spam". It is clearly a fuzzy concept, which means sometimes right-
> thinking people can have legitimate disagreements as to whether or not 
> something is "spam".
> 
> For example, I happen to think that the OP's message about Fascism is off-
> topic but not spam. I think Joan is guilty of a breach of etiquette for 
> failing to label it [OT] in the subject line, and she should have 
> directed replies to a more appropriate forum (a mailing list, another 
> newsgroup, a web forum, anywhere but here). But in my opinion, it didn't 
> cross the line into spam. I wouldn't be the slightest bit tempted to 
> killfile her, or flag the message as spam, in my mail/news client.
> 
> If other people feel differently, well, that's your personal choice. But 
> please don't try to tell me that *my* line between spam and ham is wrong, 
> and that *yours* is the only correct one. 
> 
> (That last response is aimed at a generic You, not Ben specifically. 
> Stupid English language, why can't we have a word for generic you?)
> 
> 
That's why SpamBayes allows per-user training.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Wed Feb 24 23:35:56 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:35:56 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm4unc$h9m$1@speranza.aioe.org>

MRAB wrote:
> Gib Bogle wrote:
>> Hi,
>> My student has been developing a GUI (using PyQt and PyQwt) that runs 
>> a model written in Fortran and built as a DLL.  She has to present on 
>> this work tomorrow.  She makes an executable version of the Python 
>> code with py2exe, and the executable runs fine on her Vista laptop and 
>> my XP machine.  It doesn't run on the PC that she must use for her 
>> talk tomorrow.  The Fortran DLL code is started up, it writes some 
>> text output to a couple of log files, then it fails with a 
>> WindowsError (000001d) which is a write error.  I suspect that this is 
>> the first attempt to write to a socket (communication from the DLL to 
>> Python is via sockets).  The only clue is that the machines that her 
>> program runs on have Python installed, while the one that fails 
>> doesn't.  Therefore I suspect that py2exe has omitted a necessary 
>> Python DLL.  How can I track down what might be missing?
>>
> You could try Dependency Walker: http://dependencywalker.com/
> 

Wow!  I've heard of it, but never used it.  The result is intriguing, but 
baffling.  When I look at the executable ABM15.exe on my machine (where it runs 
OK), I see a couple of harmless messages, but interestingly the program shows up 
with a checksum inconsistency, between Link Checksum and Real Checksum. 
Apparently this causes no issues on my machine.

On another XP machine, where the program fails with the write error, there is 
first a pop-up with this message:
"Errors were detected when processing ABM15.exe.  See the log for details."

In the log there are two significant messages:

"Error: The side-by-side configuration information for ABM15.exe contains 
errors.  The application has failed to start because the application 
configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application may fix this problem 
(14001)."
(the checksum discrepancy is there also)

"MSJAVA.DLL  Error opening file.  The system cannot find the file specified (2)."
(needless to say, I'm not using Java, and MSJAVA.dll is not on the other machine 
either)

I find it very puzzling that the "configuration information" (whatever that is) 
is OK on one machine and erroneous on another.  DependencyWalker is obviously 
onto something - but what?

(At this stage snide comments about Windows will be received without comment.)


From jackdied at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 00:10:50 2010
From: jackdied at gmail.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:10:50 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<6cc20cea1002241354t19461a80gc8c4ae210af81a1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8e622741002242110r3af18972m7b04a8b9bebc27fc@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Jonathan Gardner
<jgardner at jonathangardner.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger
> <usenot at geekmail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
>> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>>
>
> kill -9 seems to work for me.

kill -1 -1

Back in the days of thin X terminals I used that one as a quicker
alternative to actually logging out.  It is also useful if you start a
fork bunny and need to hit the panic switch before the machine grinds
to a halt.

-Jack


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 00:22:04 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:22:04 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - correction
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm51dt$kg8$1@speranza.aioe.org>

The program doesn't fail with the write error on the other XP machine, it 
actually fails to execute at all, complaining about the configuration 
information.  Therefore I'm seeing different behaviour on three XP machines:

Box 1 (SP2): runs OK
Box 2 (SP3): fails to start
Box 3 (SP3): starts up, all Qt stuff works, fails after invoking the Fortran DLL

Just to add to the confusion, execution is successful on a Windows 7 box.

I forgot to mention that the laptop on which the program was built (and where it 
runs OK) is using Vista.  I now see that it will probably be necessary to build 
separate Vista and XP versions - I should have realized this earlier, but was 
misled by the fact that the Vista-built program runs OK on my XP SP2 box.


From timr at probo.com  Thu Feb 25 00:44:32 2010
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:44:32 -0800
Subject: What's Going on between (Verify) Python and win7?
References: <hlu7f0$9gr$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.60.1266854492.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hluomp$ec3$2@speranza.aioe.org>
	<87d3zxt3h4.fsf@castleamber.com> <hluvdd$qrc$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<hlvaqh$och$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvmq7$dnn$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvnv5$l4o$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<hlvo8r$n6s$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <pf3co59skipjgl9n59v5e9ohq9uh0mvdod@4ax.com>

"W. eWatson" <wolftracks at invalid.com> wrote:

>Maybe someone could verify my result?
>
>open file
>read file line
>print line
>close file
>
>data 1234
>
>Execute it in a folder
>
>Create another folder and copy the program to it.
>put in a new data file as
>
>data 4567
>
>Execute the copied program
>Does it give
>data1234?

No, of course not.

  C:\tmp\x>echo data 1234>data.txt

  C:\tmp\x>type check.py
  f = open('data.txt','r')
  print f.read()
  f.close()

  C:\tmp\x>check.py
  data 1234

  C:\tmp\x>cd ..\y

  C:\tmp\y>echo data 4567>data.txt

  C:\tmp\y>copy ..\x\check.py .
          1 file(s) copied.

  C:\tmp\y>check.py
  data 4567

  C:\tmp\y>

Would you like to post your exact code?
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From half.italian at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 00:46:25 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:46:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Executable problem - correction
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<hm51dt$kg8$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <885c2e20-e4da-4aeb-bae7-7b3573bb1be1@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 9:22?pm, Gib Bogle <g.bo... at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
> The program doesn't fail with the write error on the other XP machine, it
> actually fails to execute at all, complaining about the configuration
> information. ?Therefore I'm seeing different behaviour on three XP machines:
>
> Box 1 (SP2): runs OK
> Box 2 (SP3): fails to start
> Box 3 (SP3): starts up, all Qt stuff works, fails after invoking the Fortran DLL
>
> Just to add to the confusion, execution is successful on a Windows 7 box.
>
> I forgot to mention that the laptop on which the program was built (and where it
> runs OK) is using Vista. ?I now see that it will probably be necessary to build
> separate Vista and XP versions - I should have realized this earlier, but was
> misled by the fact that the Vista-built program runs OK on my XP SP2 box.

Did you compile the program with python 2.6?  Try compiling with 2.5.

~Sean


From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Thu Feb 25 00:48:10 2010
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:48:10 -0300
Subject: parametrizing a sqlite query
In-Reply-To: <hm3rsd$mee$2@dough.gmane.org>
References: <9e2f512b1002240907v66682f1fi7d4d4c7d2dabd880@mail.gmail.com>
	<hm3rsd$mee$2@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <9e2f512b1002242148v2be5b4e2i387a54ee39f8dcd6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> ? ? ? ?No there isn't... The problem is that you need to put the wildcards
> into the parameter instead of the placeholder.

Thank you, it works now.
Best,
SB


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 01:00:26 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:00:26 +1300
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.25.01.06.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.42.1266789512.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uejcjFgf6U1@mid.individual.net>	<pan.2010.02.22.06.07.05@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>	<mailman.153.1267002759.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.06.16@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <7umhcaF9rkU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Not that I don't believe you (I do!) but could you demonstrate for the 
> record?

I posted a demonstration of this earlier in this thread. The
key thing is the __subclasses__() method of a class. You can
start with any object, work your way up the base class chain
to object, and then use __subclasses__() to get to any builtin
class in the system, including file.

There was a sandboxing scheme put forward a while back which
involves vetting the code and disallowing the use of any
double-underscore attribute names. With a suitably censored
set of builtin functions, this prevents the use of the
__subclasses__ hack, as well as some other potential lines
of attack. As far as I know, nobody managed to break it at
the time, but it probably hasn't been tested much in
the real world, if at all, so I probably wouldn't recommend
using it for anything critical.

-- 
Greg


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 01:53:37 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:53:37 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - correction
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm51dt$kg8$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<885c2e20-e4da-4aeb-bae7-7b3573bb1be1@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm56ph$r6u$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Sean DiZazzo wrote:
> On Feb 24, 9:22 pm, Gib Bogle <g.bo... at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
>> The program doesn't fail with the write error on the other XP machine, it
>> actually fails to execute at all, complaining about the configuration
>> information.  Therefore I'm seeing different behaviour on three XP machines:
>>
>> Box 1 (SP2): runs OK
>> Box 2 (SP3): fails to start
>> Box 3 (SP3): starts up, all Qt stuff works, fails after invoking the Fortran DLL
>>
>> Just to add to the confusion, execution is successful on a Windows 7 box.
>>
>> I forgot to mention that the laptop on which the program was built (and where it
>> runs OK) is using Vista.  I now see that it will probably be necessary to build
>> separate Vista and XP versions - I should have realized this earlier, but was
>> misled by the fact that the Vista-built program runs OK on my XP SP2 box.
> 
> Did you compile the program with python 2.6?  Try compiling with 2.5.
> 
> ~Sean

I'll have to check with Helvin, but I believe 2.6 was needed for the version of 
PyQt that she has installed.


From ashokprabhuv at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 02:01:58 2010
From: ashokprabhuv at gmail.com (Ashok Prabhu)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:01:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Regular expression issue
Message-ID: <3c13650c-a16d-422b-93f2-53d376c693d0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

The following is a sample of my problem. I get input from user and
store it in variable 'b'. I want to match the user input with the
contents of another variable 'a'. However I m not able to get the
exact match. Could someone help?

>>> print a
c
c+

>>> b
'c+'
>>> re.search(b,a).group()
'c'

In the above example I want re to find the string 'c+' instead of 'c'.
I want a solution without escaping the '+' symbol with backslash
because it is given by the user.

Thanks,
~Ashok.


From sjdevnull at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 25 02:03:30 2010
From: sjdevnull at yahoo.com (sjdevnull at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:03:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja> <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 8:05?pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>
> > Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>
> It avoids the need for garbage collection.

That's like saying that driving a VW Beetle avoids the need for an
automobile.  Reference counting is a form of garbage collection (like
mark-sweep, copy-collect, and others), not a way of avoiding it.

You're right that ref counting in many implementations is more
deterministic than other common forms of garbage collection; IMO,
Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec--or at least
guaranteeing that when a function returns, any otherwise unreferenced
locals are immediately collected.

I could be convinced otherwise, but I _think_ that that change would
offer an alternative to all of the interesting cases of where the
"with" statement is "useful".


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 02:30:20 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:30:20 +0000
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>

dontspamleo <dontsendleospam at gmail.com> writes:

> @Arnaud: I tried to find your earlier post -- googled "Arnaud lambda"
> -- but couldn't.

I remembered after posting that I sent this to python-ideas. Here is the
first message in the thread:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2007-December/001260.html

In this thread, someone claims that this issue was discussed when
genexps were first added to the language, but doesn't remember the
rationale for taking this decision.  Perhaps someone knows what
discussion they refer to...

-- 
Arnaud


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 02:46:41 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:46:41 +1300
Subject: while loop with the condition used in the body
In-Reply-To: <atef57-5u1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <6a7f57-hj1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<hm2ujg$g74$02$1@news.t-online.com>
	<Xns9D296B281C59Fduncanbooth@127.0.0.1>
	<hm2vjv$csj$00$1@news.t-online.com>
	<atef57-5u1.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <7umnjeF3epU1@mid.individual.net>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> so why not:
> 
>   while <expression> as <name>:
>       ...
> 
> and also:
> 
>   if <expression> as <name>:
>       ...

This sort of thing has been suggested repeatedly in the
past, and it's always been rejected. That's not likely to
change. Look up the past threads for the reasons why.

-- 
Greg


From jayeola at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 02:54:00 2010
From: jayeola at gmail.com (john maclean)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:54:00 -0500
Subject: pydoc errors
Message-ID: <4170c1721002242354q5057b2b3p46311d567777afc4@mail.gmail.com>

python version is 2.6.2 does any one else have this issue? Seen a few
closed tickets for various Linux Distros but it is obvoiusly still my
problem.


help> modules

Please wait a moment while I gather a list of all available modules...

dm.c: 1640: not running as root returning empty list

** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype 'WnckWindowState' as
flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'

** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype 'WnckWindowActions'
as flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'

** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype
'WnckWindowMoveResizeMask' as flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/httplib2/__init__.py:29:
DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
import md5
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/httplib2/__init__.py:44:
DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib
module instead
import sha
2010-02-25 01:20:10.483800: ERROR: Could not load the stocks from
/home/jmaclean/.gnome2/invest-applet/stocks.pickle: [Errno 2] No such
file or directory:
'/home/jmaclean/.gnome2/invest-applet/stocks.pickle'
You must run this application as root

-- 
John Maclean
07739 171 531
MSc (DIC)

Enterprise Linux Systems Engineer


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 02:55:51 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:55:51 +1300
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<e850d09a-3d07-4461-818f-7d1854282505@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.01.41.27@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7umo4kF7q8U1@mid.individual.net>

Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:

> I still don't understand why is it a bad idea in the case of
> globals().
> This is the only way I know to define variables programatically in the
> top-level namespace, without having to do it manually one by one.

The point is that creating variables whose names are computed
at run time is usually a misguided thing to do in the first
place.

Think about it -- how are you going to *use* those variables
that you've created?

If the answer is that you're going to go looking for a way
to read the values of variables whose names are computed at
run time, you might as well not use variables at all, but
just keep their values in a dictionary.

-- 
Greg


From paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk  Thu Feb 25 02:56:05 2010
From: paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk (Paul Rudin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:56:05 +0000
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>

kj <no.email at please.post> writes:

> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
> it!

No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
(other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
be nested.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 25 02:56:18 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:56:18 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xmxyxiw9p.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"sjdevnull at yahoo.com" <sjdevnull at yahoo.com> writes:
> IMO, Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
> currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec...
> I could be convinced otherwise, but I _think_ that that change would
> offer an alternative to all of the interesting cases of where the
> "with" statement is "useful".

The whole point of introducing the "with" statement was help cleanly get
rid of the ugly and unsound reliance on refcounting semantics found in
so much python code.  Your proposal is aimed in the wrong direction.


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 25 02:58:39 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:58:39 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <7xiq9liw5s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
> Pointer-chasing is a cache- hostile activity. Garbage collection
> involves a lot of pointer-chasing, particularly of dead objects that
> have long since been flushed from the cache, compared with reference
> counting of recently-accessed objects.  Therefore garbage collection
> loses performance.

Serious gc's these days only touch live data, not garbage; and they work
on small enough regions of memory most of the time (generational
scavenging) to not have too many cache misses.  Also, hyperthreading
seems to be coming back, allowing cpu cores to multitask in the presence
of cache misses.


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 25 03:10:51 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:10:51 +0100
Subject: Regular expression issue
References: <3c13650c-a16d-422b-93f2-53d376c693d0@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5ba6$bhv$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Ashok Prabhu wrote:

> The following is a sample of my problem. I get input from user and
> store it in variable 'b'. I want to match the user input with the
> contents of another variable 'a'. However I m not able to get the
> exact match. Could someone help?
> 
>>>> print a
> c
> c+
> 
>>>> b
> 'c+'
>>>> re.search(b,a).group()
> 'c'
> 
> In the above example I want re to find the string 'c+' instead of 'c'.
> I want a solution without escaping the '+' symbol with backslash
> because it is given by the user.

>>> a = "yadda c+ yadda"
>>> b = "c+"
>>> re.search(re.escape(b), a).group()
'c+'

But if you aren't interested in anything but string literals, you should use 
string search:

>>> a.index(b)
6

Peter


From aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 03:24:14 2010
From: aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:24:14 -0600
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
In-Reply-To: <7umo4kF7q8U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<a1e76aed-cec7-4a9f-b8ef-cb38b93fce09@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<pan.2010.02.24.04.15.30@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<875b425e-2925-48ed-9ef9-b3018d7ac9b6@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<pan.2010.02.24.07.08.19@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<f6de3cad-cbb6-465e-8a86-bb57e63f3f71@z19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<357236a4-22ed-44b8-b36a-5cf1d5850f31@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b8511f0$0$24096$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<7f9b4873-5a11-4e0f-99fd-8461364210fe@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7umo4kF7q8U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002250024q634b9c17t55fd7bc7649b917c@mail.gmail.com>

The problem i see with using globals() is that it can overwrite a previously
defined function or key within the global namespace, making the code
potentially dangerous and wild with exploits.

my $0.02

-Alex Goretoy
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From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 25 03:35:10 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:35:10 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5co1$b11$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* sjdevnull at yahoo.com:
> On Feb 24, 8:05 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>>
>>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>> It avoids the need for garbage collection.
> 
> That's like saying that driving a VW Beetle avoids the need for an
> automobile.  Reference counting is a form of garbage collection (like
> mark-sweep, copy-collect, and others), not a way of avoiding it.
> 
> You're right that ref counting in many implementations is more
> deterministic than other common forms of garbage collection; IMO,
> Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
> currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec--or at least
> guaranteeing that when a function returns, any otherwise unreferenced
> locals are immediately collected.
> 
> I could be convinced otherwise, but I _think_ that that change would
> offer an alternative to all of the interesting cases of where the
> "with" statement is "useful".

Well, relying on ref-counted garbage collection for cleanup actions (other than 
reclaiming memory) is pretty brittle in a language based on general garbage 
collection. As soon as a reference to X sneaks away somewhere, X doesn't clean 
up at scope's end, which is not a catastrophe in itself but means there's no 
telling when it happens or indeed whether it happens at all.

I'm not sure but as I recall the D language has a solution to this, sort of 
declaring X so that no references to it can be retained anywhere, but it's a 
very different language. And Eiffel has the "expanded type" thing for "no 
references", but does it use that to support deterministic cleanup? I don't know 
whether the Eiffel 'dispose' is called for an expanded object.

C# has a 'using' like Python 'with'. It works, sort of, but adds a lot of 
complexity. C++ has the notion of optional garbage collection (formalized in 
C++0x) with cleanup actions not tied to memory reclamation but to 
deterministically invoked destructors and I think that as an /idea/ that is 
clean and good, but in practice almost no-one uses garbage collection with C++, 
and reportedly the least unpopular implementation (the Boehm collector) imposes 
some very stiff requirements on the code.

So I think there's no really good solution: the price for simplicity in one 
dimension is some complexity in another dimension, here deterministic cleanup 
and the problem of zombie objects (garbage collection simplifies a lot of things 
while zombie objects, objects that have had explicit cleanup performed and thus 
are invalid in a sense, compensate by adding back in a lot of complexity).


Cheers,

- Alf


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 03:43:08 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:43:08 +1300
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <7umqtdFlrrU1@mid.individual.net>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to assumptions 
> that programs will obey locality of reference. Pointer-chasing is a cache-
> hostile activity.

Another thing to consider is the rate at which garbage is
created. Java's fundamental types (ints, floats, etc.) are
unboxed, and objects are only used for relatively heavyweight
things. So you can do quite a lot of useful computation in
Java without creating any objects or leaving behind any
garbage.

In Python, on the other hand, you can't even do arithmetic
without creating and destroying intermediate objects at
every step. Collecting those objects promptly means that
the same areas of memory tend to get re-used over and
over, resulting in better cacheing behaviour.

So I don't think you can assume that just because Java's
garbage collection scheme works well for Java that it would
also necessarily work well for Python.

-- 
Greg


From m.38ahesh at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 04:08:54 2010
From: m.38ahesh at gmail.com (Sree Rama)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:08:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Why born like human? Read Ramayana & Follow Rama.
Message-ID: <f52eac63-1cc2-4db9-9cbb-a0b03c236769@s25g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Why born like human? Read Ramayana & Follow Rama.

Once in a life you should read this great story, read this story in
simple language at

http://ramayanastory-rama.blogspot.com/2010/02/sri-rama-prince-of-ayodhya.html


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 04:13:23 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:13:23 +0100
Subject: pydoc errors
In-Reply-To: <mailman.213.1267084442.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.213.1267084442.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7umt9jF38rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 25.02.10 08:54, schrieb john maclean:
> python version is 2.6.2 does any one else have this issue? Seen a few
> closed tickets for various Linux Distros but it is obvoiusly still my
> problem.
>
>
> help>  modules
>
> Please wait a moment while I gather a list of all available modules...
>
> dm.c: 1640: not running as root returning empty list
>
> ** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype 'WnckWindowState' as
> flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'
>
> ** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype 'WnckWindowActions'
> as flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'
>
> ** (.:8391): WARNING **: Trying to register gtype
> 'WnckWindowMoveResizeMask' as flags when in fact it is of type 'GEnum'
> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/httplib2/__init__.py:29:
> DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use hashlib instead
> import md5
> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/httplib2/__init__.py:44:
> DeprecationWarning: the sha module is deprecated; use the hashlib
> module instead
> import sha
> 2010-02-25 01:20:10.483800: ERROR: Could not load the stocks from
> /home/jmaclean/.gnome2/invest-applet/stocks.pickle: [Errno 2] No such
> file or directory:
> '/home/jmaclean/.gnome2/invest-applet/stocks.pickle'
> You must run this application as root

To me it looks as if one of your installed applications has nasty 
side-effects on module import. De-install it if possible, and see if 
that helps.

Diez



From no.email at nospam.invalid  Thu Feb 25 04:28:30 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:28:30 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<hm5co1$b11$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <7xvddlslz5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alf P. Steinbach" <alfps at start.no> writes:
> So I think there's no really good solution: the price for simplicity
> in one dimension is some complexity in another dimension, 

You could look at the way Cyclone (http://cyclone.thelanguage.org) does
region inference, and maybe combine that with a tracing gc.  There are
some functional language compilers that also use region inference.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb 25 04:41:09 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:41:09 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002250141x5b40b3b8gf11e077ba8a80fef@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:03 PM, sjdevnull at yahoo.com
<sjdevnull at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 24, 8:05?pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-
> central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
>> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>>
>> > Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>>
>> It avoids the need for garbage collection.
>
> That's like saying that driving a VW Beetle avoids the need for an
> automobile. ?Reference counting is a form of garbage collection (like
> mark-sweep, copy-collect, and others), not a way of avoiding it.
>
> You're right that ref counting in many implementations is more
> deterministic than other common forms of garbage collection; IMO,
> Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
> currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec--or at least
> guaranteeing that when a function returns, any otherwise unreferenced
> locals are immediately collected.
>
> I could be convinced otherwise, but I _think_ that that change would
> offer an alternative to all of the interesting cases of where the
> "with" statement is "useful".

You're forgetting global context objects, such as those for Decimal:
http://docs.python.org/library/decimal.html#decimal.localcontext

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 05:24:09 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:24:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com> 
	<mailman.194.1267045621.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<878wai5etv.fsf@benfinney.id.au> 
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.30.01@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <e6b80ea2-53ad-46d4-8b1f-113cf5ff1fca@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>



Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> (That last response is aimed at a generic You, not Ben specifically.
> Stupid English language, why can't we have a word for generic you?)

I thought the word was "one".

--
Arnaud


From nanyaks at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 05:26:18 2010
From: nanyaks at googlemail.com (simn_stv)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
Message-ID: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

hello people, i have been reading posts on this group for quite some
time now and many, if not all (actually not all!), seem quite
interesting.
i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
(hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
gets pretty busy...
so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.

would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...

im sorry if my subject was not as clear as probably should be!.
i guess this should be the best place to ask this sort of thing, hope
im so right.

Thanks


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 25 05:32:30 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:32:30 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>

Michael Rudolf wrote:
> First: Thanks for all the replies so far, they really helped me.
>
> Am 24.02.2010 11:28, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>>> >>> def a(x=None):
>>>     if x is None:
>>>         pass
>>>     else:
>>>         pass
>>>
>> This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 docstring,
>> 1 way do do it, 1 interface.
>
> Yes, I see. Actually I do now realize that even in Java I use method 
> overloading mostly to implement optional arguments anyway, like:
>
> void constructor(){this.foo='foo'; this.initotherstuff();}
> void constructor(int x) {this.x=x; this.constructor();}
>
> and so on.
>
> So most of the time the idiom above is exactly what I need, as the 
> versions of the function share code anyway.
>
> But there are also cases where they do something completely different 
> - in these cases I might use one of the other solutions provided here 
> or simply make two or three functions and name them appropiately.
>
> I do now see that the pythonic approach is the "best" for most cases, 
> but I really loved to see that you *can* do overloading in a 
> convenient way if you really want to :D Those decorators just rock :D
>
> Thanks again,
> Michael
You said it yourself: "simply make two or three functions and name them 
appropiately" :-)

When 2 methods of a class were to have the same name for doing 
completely different things like you said, there's a design flaw to my 
opinion.

JM


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 25 05:44:31 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:44:31 -0600
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4B86548F.4070305@tim.thechases.com>

Paul Rudin wrote:
> kj <no.email at please.post> writes:
> 
>> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
>> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
>> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
>> it!
> 
> No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
> (other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
> be nested.

Well, there's always "if 0"/"if False", but that requires 
screwing with the indentation levels.  Granted, any competent 
text editor will allow you to easily shift code indentation (I 
know Vim does, and am pretty sure Emacs will let you do the 
same...YMMV with other editors).

But yes, there have been times that a multi-line commenting that 
doesn't touch your indentation would be nice, and I confess to 
using triple-quotes to do that (opting for """ or ''' based on 
the type of triple-quotes found in the code).  However, I usually 
limit this for debugging purposes and they usually get pruned or 
uncommented for production code.

-tkc





From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 25 05:50:05 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:50:05 +0100
Subject: When will Python go mainstream like Java?
In-Reply-To: <hm3nnb$5rr$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>	<mailman.111.1266936500.4577.python-list@python.org>	<dd162444-4788-4d6c-b30a-04ae32faf1dc@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<hm3nnb$5rr$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm5kkt$sh$1@dough.gmane.org>

mk, 24.02.2010 18:30:
> On 2010-02-24 03:26, George Sakkis wrote:
>>> Well I for one wouldn't want Python to go exactly Java way, see this:
>>>
>>> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=jav...
>>>
>>> This is the percentage of job offers in UK where the keyword "Java"
>>> appears.
>>>
>>> Same for C#, it looks like C# is eating Java's lunch now:
>>>
>>> http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/permanent-demand-trend.aspx?s=csh...
>>
>> This seems to be a UK-specific trend; in the US (and most other
>> countries I know of) Java is still going strong, e.g.
>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=java%2C+c%23&l=
> 
> Interesting, and I was thinking that UK sample was big enough for such
> things not to matter.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics ...

Stefan



From lacrima.maxim at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 05:56:41 2010
From: lacrima.maxim at gmail.com (Lacrima)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:56:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Using mock library (written by Michael Foord)
Message-ID: <5989a385-ee81-4708-8409-3299e83dcfa7@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hello!

I use mock library http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/. There is
no user group for the library, so I post in comp.lang.python and hope
that people who use it will help me.

The library allows to patch objects, using patch decorator. Patching
is done only within the scope of the function. So if I have a lot of
tests that need specific object to be patched I have to specify the
same decorator for each test method:

class TestSomething(unittest.TestCase):

    @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
    def test_method1(self, MockClass):
        Class()
        self.assertEquals(MockClass.called)

    @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
    def test_method2(self, MockClass):
        Class()
        MockClass.assert_called_with('foo')

    @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
     def test_method3(self, MockClass):
        foo = Class()
        self.assertRaises(AttributeError, foo.some_method)

    # and more ...

So for every test method I always do the same patching! How can I
avoid this?

Thanks in advance.
Sorry if my English isn't proper enough.

With regards,
Maxim.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 25 05:58:30 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:58:30 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4B8657D6.6080703@sequans.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Michael Rudolf wrote:
>> First: Thanks for all the replies so far, they really helped me.
>>
>> Am 24.02.2010 11:28, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>>>> >>> def a(x=None):
>>>>     if x is None:
>>>>         pass
>>>>     else:
>>>>         pass
>>>>
>>> This is the way to do it python, and it has its advantages: 1 
>>> docstring,
>>> 1 way do do it, 1 interface.
>>
>> Yes, I see. Actually I do now realize that even in Java I use method 
>> overloading mostly to implement optional arguments anyway, like:
>>
>> void constructor(){this.foo='foo'; this.initotherstuff();}
>> void constructor(int x) {this.x=x; this.constructor();}
>>
>> and so on.
>>
>> So most of the time the idiom above is exactly what I need, as the 
>> versions of the function share code anyway.
>>
>> But there are also cases where they do something completely different 
>> - in these cases I might use one of the other solutions provided here 
>> or simply make two or three functions and name them appropiately.
>>
>> I do now see that the pythonic approach is the "best" for most cases, 
>> but I really loved to see that you *can* do overloading in a 
>> convenient way if you really want to :D Those decorators just rock :D
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Michael
> You said it yourself: "simply make two or three functions and name 
> them appropiately" :-)
>
> When 2 methods of a class were to have the same name for doing 
> completely different things like you said, there's a design flaw to my 
> opinion.
>
> JM
I wonder if I've just written that my opinion is flawed... It surely is, 
but that's not why I meant :-)

JM


From steve at holdenweb.com  Thu Feb 25 06:13:28 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:13:28 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5m0v$4f1$1@dough.gmane.org>

simn_stv wrote:
> hello people, i have been reading posts on this group for quite some
> time now and many, if not all (actually not all!), seem quite
> interesting.
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> gets pretty busy...
> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.
> 
> would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
> able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...
> 
> im sorry if my subject was not as clear as probably should be!.
> i guess this should be the best place to ask this sort of thing, hope
> im so right.
> 
> Thanks

I'd suggest that if you are running an operation that gets 100,000 hits
a day then your problems won't be with Python but with organizational
aspects of your operation.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 25 06:21:30 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:21:30 +0000
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5mfo$mg1$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/25/10 10:26, simn_stv wrote:
<cut>
> what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.
>
> would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
> able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...
<cut>
Python isn't the most efficient language, the assembler provided by the 
maker of your CPU probably is the best you can get, everything after 
that is a trade-off between performance and flexibility (flexible in the 
most flexible sense of the word :-)).

That being said, for me, Python (well actually any turing complete 
programming language), is more like a box of lego with infinite amount 
of pieces.
Scalability and API issues are the same as the shape and function of the 
model your making with lego.

Sure some type of pieces might be more suited than other types but since 
you can simulate any type of piece with the ones that are already 
present, you are more limited by your imagination than by the language.

So in short, I don't see any serious problems using Python, I have used 
it in Enterprise environments without any problems but than again I was 
aware not to use it for numerical intensive parts without the use of 3rd 
party libraries like numpy. Which for me resulted in not doing the 
compression of a database delta's in pure python but to offload that to 
a more suitable external program, still controlled from Python though.

-- 
mph


From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Thu Feb 25 06:45:22 2010
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:45:22 +0000
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1267098322.21809.26.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2010-02-25 at 02:26 -0800, simn_stv wrote:
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> gets pretty busy...

I've got apps running that handle *well* over 100,000 hits / process /
day using Python - although some of the heavy lifting is off-loaded to C
and MySql - obviously without actually looking at your requirements that
doesn't mean much as I don't know how much work each hit requires.

Regarding financial transactions - you'll almost certainly want to
integrate with something that already has transactional support (sql
etc) - so I expect that will bear the brunt of the load

> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))

I've avoided integrating java with my python (I'm not a big fan of java)
- but I've integrated quite a bit of C - it's fairly easy to do, and you
can just port the inner loops if you see the need arise.

> ...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.

I've heard that php can be well scaled (by compiling it to bytecode/C++)
- but my preference would always be to python.

Tim



From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 06:58:11 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:58:11 +1100
Subject: Can't Access ANY url from python (errno 61)
In-Reply-To: <99bd0874-3462-4bb3-8c3c-54b73c88f9a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
References: <46753272-0cdb-47b9-adf2-d4a0aade6606@o5g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<hln5a9$r4i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<41d2c353-cec4-43f6-bc68-b9fb48ce00e5@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<hlp9ju$o2d$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<4b807791$0$8819$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<99bd0874-3462-4bb3-8c3c-54b73c88f9a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8665f5$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/24/10 17:07, MattB wrote:
> All -- problem solved.  Following Lie's suggestions, and the links
> from those pages, I went hunting around in my /library/preferences/
> SystemConfiguration/.  I opened all of the 6 or 7 files that were in
> there, and all looked as if they contained info directly related to my
> airport card -- networks, server names, etc.  So I copied them to a
> backup folder and then deleted them. Then I rebooted.

Glad to hear your problem solved.

> Then I opened IDLE and was able to raise URLs again.  I'm not sure
> what it was about those files (or maybe a specific one) -- does anyone
> have any ideas?

Do the files get auto-generated? If they do, perhaps you could try
diff-ing them with your backups and get some clue of what caused it.

> Thanks for your help and suggestions while I tried to figure this out.



From prasad.chand at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:23:24 2010
From: prasad.chand at gmail.com (prasad_chand)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:23:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A more pythonish code
Message-ID: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I use python to do simple math problems as a hobby.

I have made a program that finds the number of divisors(factors) of a
given number. I am hoping to improve my language skills, specifically
I would like to re-write the function "prime_factors" more gracefully.
While the program works right, I am hoping that I could get some input
on how to write better python code. I have attached the code below.


def prime_factors(n):
    """
    Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add (4+1)
(1+1) = 10)

    Updates a global dictionary(my_dict) with prime numbers and number
of occurances. In the case of 48 {2:4,3:1}

    """
    tmp_n = n

    while True:

        if tmp_n == 1:
            break

        tmp_check = tmp_n

        for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
            if tmp_n % x == 0:
                add_to_dict(x)
                tmp_n /= x
                break

        if tmp_check == tmp_n: #number is prime...so just to add to
dict
            add_to_dict(tmp_n)
            break


def add_one(x):
    return x+1


def mul(x,y):
    return x * y

def add_to_dict(p_num):
    if my_dict.has_key(p_num):
        my_dict[p_num] += 1
    else:
        my_dict[p_num] = 1


my_dict = {}


prime_factors(135)
l = map(add_one,my_dict.values())
print reduce(mul, l, 1)


Thanks for your time.


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:25:14 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b810953$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <b3dfe5ad-9ca8-4cf7-9055-cdd15dc14dab@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 21, 11:21?am, Lie Ryan <lie.1... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/21/10 19:27,lallouswrote:
> <snip>
>
> > If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
> > would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
> > want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
> > implement the cb.
>
> That sounds like a microoptimization; have you profiled your code and
> determined that calling empty function causes a bottleneck? I doubt it.
>
> > Now the base class should define it so that doc
> > parsers properly describe the base class.
> > The recipe suggested is not worth the trouble.
> > Unfortunately I cannot use abc module since I use Python 2.5
>
> Because nobody here could have guessed that your dispatcher was written
> in C++; your problem is near trivial if your dispatcher is a pure-python
> code.

You are right. I haven't checked how much it costs to continuously
call an empty function, but why do it if I know (during initialization
from my C++ dispatcher code) that certain Python object should not
have certain methods called.

I still prefer not to call at all, even if it was an empty function.

Regards,
Elias


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:25:48 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:25:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7udu49Fk3uU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <38ddd614-583c-430d-b998-214bd6360eb2@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 22, 12:42?am, Gregory Ewing <greg.ew... at canterbury.ac.nz>
wrote:
> lallouswrote:
> > If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
> > would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
> > want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
> > implement the cb.
>
> I would simply not implement the method at all in the base
> class. Then the C++ code can do an attribute lookup for
> the method, and if it's not found, do nothing.
>
> --
> Greg


That is what I currently do. But if I comment out the implementations
(empty ones) then the documentation generation tool will not document
the callbacks.


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:27:03 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:27:03 +1100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
Message-ID: <4b866cb8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/25/10 07:40, Wanja Gayk wrote:
> Am 24.02.2010, 00:22 Uhr, schrieb Lawrence D'Oliveiro
> <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand>:
> 
>>> Java - The JVM code been hacked to death by Sun engineers (optimised)
>>> Python - The PVM code has seen speed-ups in Unladen or via Pyrex..
>>> ad-infinitum but nowhere as near to JVM
>>
>> Python is still faster, though.
> 
> In synthetic microbenchmarks without any practical importance - possibly..
> 
>> I think a key reason is that its VM supports
>> reference-counting, which the Java folks never quite got the grasp of.
> 
> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.

I disagree IMO, assuming there is no circular reference, reference
counting is the simple, lightweight, and best garbage collection
technique. Reference counting can free memory (or return it to cache)
right after the refcount turns zero; other traditional garbage
management techniques runs periodically and there's a delay between
getting to zero reference to actual memory release. The other weakness
of traditional garbage managers is the symptomatic "stopping the time"
whenever the GC is running, which makes it unsuitable for time-sensitive
program.

The only weakness of reference counting is its inability to detect
circular reference, which is why CPython have an additional garbage
collector.

> Modern Java VM won't count references. They will just trace the active
> references from the rootand mark all objects it finds as active and save
> these. The remaining ones are garbage. The reason why this is faster is
> that there are usually less live objects than dead ones and there are
> less refereces to look at.

Reference counting is even faster since there is only one object to be
looked at: the object that is being dereferenced. There is no need to
look at other live objects, there is no need to look other dead objects,
just the current object.


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:28:12 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:28:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Walking lists
Message-ID: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello


I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
the code:

L = (
  (1, 2, 3),
  (4,),
  (5,),
  (6, 7)
)

for x in L:
    print x

What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:

for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
  print first_element
  for x in the_rest:
    # now access the rest of the elements

I know I can :
for x in L:
    first = x[0]
    rest = x[1:]
    ....
Probably that is not possible, but just asking.

Thanks,
Elias


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 25 07:45:28 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:45:28 +0100
Subject: Walking lists
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5rd3$pfl$03$1@news.t-online.com>

lallous wrote:

> I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
> the code:
> 
> L = (
>   (1, 2, 3),
>   (4,),
>   (5,),
>   (6, 7)
> )
> 
> for x in L:
>     print x
> 
> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
> 
> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
>   print first_element
>   for x in the_rest:
>     # now access the rest of the elements
> 
> I know I can :
> for x in L:
>     first = x[0]
>     rest = x[1:]
>     ....
> Probably that is not possible, but just asking.

In Python 3 you can write

>>> for first, *rest in L:
...     print("first:", first, "rest:", rest)
...
first: 1 rest: [2, 3]
first: 4 rest: []
first: 5 rest: []
first: 6 rest: [7]

Peter


From nanyaks at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:46:38 2010
From: nanyaks at googlemail.com (simn_stv)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.220.1267096429.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <da57258c-cea1-4a36-9e77-57113222cd22@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 12:13 pm, Steve Holden <st... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> simn_stv wrote:
> > hello people, i have been reading posts on this group for quite some
> > time now and many, if not all (actually not all!), seem quite
> > interesting.
> > i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> > estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> > (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> > or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> > gets pretty busy...
> > so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> > python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> > the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> > God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> > the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> > efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.
>
> > would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
> > able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...
>
> > im sorry if my subject was not as clear as probably should be!.
> > i guess this should be the best place to ask this sort of thing, hope
> > im so right.
>
> > Thanks
>
> I'd suggest that if you are running an operation that gets 100,000 hits
> a day then your problems won't be with Python but with organizational
> aspects of your operation.
>
> regards
>  Steve
> --

very well noted steve, i'd be careful (which is a very relative word)
with the organizational aspects...
i'm sure ure quite rooted in that aspect, hey u need a job??........;)


From lie.1296 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 07:50:51 2010
From: lie.1296 at gmail.com (Lie Ryan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:50:51 +1100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4b86724d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>

On 02/25/10 05:18, kj wrote:
> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
> it!

I've never heard of it, though I can think of a few reasons why TQC
might be a bad thing. Especially if a user pydoc-ed your module and see
a bunch of meaningless code.

> Is my memory playing me a trick?
> 
> After all, from what I've seen since then, the practice of
> triple-quote-commenting (or TQC, pardon the TCA) is in fact quite
> common.
> 
> Is TQC OK after all?

I'd say it's OK for quick and dirty code, or when you're rewriting a
significant part of the code especially in early development (or you
haven't setup a version control system since it's a damn small script).
They shouldn't be permanent though, due to docstring problem.

> If not, what's the case against it?
> 
> Also, has the BDFL expressed an opinion on the subject?  Alternatively,
> is there any other more or less "authoritative" opinion on TQC? 


From fat.bold.cyclop at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:00:48 2010
From: fat.bold.cyclop at gmail.com (fat bold cyclop)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:00:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3)  > [1, 2, 3] is true?
Message-ID: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

I tired to google for comparison of tuple to list but i failed.

Could anyone explain it to me?

Best regards,
fat bold cyclop


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 25 08:02:49 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:02:49 -0600
Subject: Walking lists
In-Reply-To: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8674F9.2070904@tim.thechases.com>

lallous wrote:
> L = (
>   (1, 2, 3),
>   (4,),
>   (5,),
>   (6, 7)
> )
> 
> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
> 
> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
>   print first_element
>   for x in the_rest:
>     # now access the rest of the elements

Python 3 introduced a variable tuple assignment which I 
suspect[*] would work in this context:

   for first, *rest in L: # note the asterisk
     print first
     for x in rest:
       do_stuff(x)

> I know I can :
> for x in L:
>     first = x[0]
>     rest = x[1:]

However in 2.x, this is the way to do it.  Though if you want to 
abstract the logic, you can move it to a generator:

   def splitter(i):
     for t in i:
       yield t[0], t[1:]

   for first, rest in splitter(L):
     print first
     for x in rest:
       do_stuff(x)

-tkc



[*] not having py3 on this machine, I can't readily verify this.








From macbeth at panix.com  Thu Feb 25 08:06:40 2010
From: macbeth at panix.com (macbeth)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:06:40 -0500
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <4b86724d$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
Message-ID: <MMEEKPLCMGEBDALEEHDJEEEMEPAB.macbeth@panix.com>



> From: Lie Ryan

>
> On 02/25/10 05:18, kj wrote:
> > I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
> > the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
> > LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
> > it!
>
> I've never heard of it, though I can think of a few reasons why TQC
> might be a bad thing. Especially if a user pydoc-ed your module and see
> a bunch of meaningless code.

That is why I was told not to use """ to comment code.

Use '#' for code and """ for docs

But, I do not remember reading it any where.

I found this --->
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2004-February/028432.html







From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 25 08:07:59 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:07:59 -0600
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B86762F.9090606@tim.thechases.com>

simn_stv wrote:
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> gets pretty busy...
> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.

Python is as "enterprise" as the developer who wields it.

Scalability revolves entirely around application design & 
implementation.  Or you could use Erlang (or haskell, etc ;-)

-tkc





From gnewsg at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:15:04 2010
From: gnewsg at gmail.com (Giampaolo Rodola')
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:15:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to monitor memory usage within Python? (Linux)
References: <hm49jj$ssl$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <01248751-3cfb-4603-9b68-9bca36106855@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Feb, 23:35, kj <no.em... at please.post> wrote:
> Is there some standard module for getting info about the process's
> memory usage, in a Linux/Unix system?
>
> (I want to avoid hacks that involve, e.g., scraping ps's output.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> ~K

http://code.google.com/p/psutil

>>> import psutil
>>> p = psutil.Process(7055)
>>> p.cmdline
['/usr/bin/python']
>>> rss, vms =  p.get_memory_info()
>>> "Resident memory: %s KB" %(rss / 1024)
'Resident memory: 3768 KB'
>>> "Virtual memory: %s KB" %(vms / 1024)
'Virtual memory: 6176 KB'
>>> p.get_memory_percent()
0.8342


--- Giampaolo
http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/
http://code.google.com/p/psutil/


From silvio at nospam.com  Thu Feb 25 08:17:55 2010
From: silvio at nospam.com (Silvio)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:17:55 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4b867886$0$22913$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>


"Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> wrote in message 
news:hm4icr$q4o$1 at lust.ihug.co.nz...
> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>
>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>
> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things 
> like
>
>    contents = open(filename, "r").read()
>
> and know the file object will be immediately closed after its contents are
> returned.
>
> It also means I don?t have to predefine how much memory my program will 
> use.
> A garbage collector will only kick in when the app runs low on memory. On 
> a
> system with dynamic memory allocation, that will not happen until the 
> entire
> system runs low on memory, unless you limit the app to some fixed amount.
> Which is an antiquated way of doing things.
>
> And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to 
> assumptions
> that programs will obey locality of reference. Pointer-chasing is a cache-
> hostile activity. Garbage collection involves a lot of pointer-chasing,
> particularly of dead objects that have long since been flushed from the
> cache, compared with reference counting of recently-accessed objects.
> Therefore garbage collection loses performance.

Reference counting is a technique that is only applicable for a subset of 
scenarios GC can handle. RC fails when circular dependencies exist. In an 
ancient past I have worked with RC-based C++ frameworks and they where 
either very restrictive to prevent circular dependencies or ignored them 
resulting in memory leaks.

In addition, for fast create/destroy scenario's (for examples loops that 
allocate objects with single cycle lifetimes) a generational GC is MUCH 
faster than manual malloc/free new/delete code because it enables a 
completely different heap management logic. Reference counting only adds to 
the slowness in this scenario.
You are also incorrect in stating that a GC will only kick in when memory 
becomes scarce. Partial GCs will happen very frequently (thereby 
invalidating your point about caching) and are extremely fast. Only full GCs 
are infrequent and take more time but they will typically run in a separate 
thread.

No general statement about the relative speed of generational GC systems 
versus manual heap management (or the slower variant RC) can be made since 
they have completely different best, general and worse case behavior and 
scenarios.

In response to your original post: please provide links to examples of 
quality benchmark results. There are numerous language speed comparison 
benchmarks that usually put Python in the tail region with Ruby and the 
likes for many different applications. If you have opposing examples then 
you should provide them.

Silvio
 



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 25 08:26:18 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:26:18 +0100
Subject: Using mock library (written by Michael Foord)
References: <5989a385-ee81-4708-8409-3299e83dcfa7@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5tpl$gfh$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Lacrima wrote:

> I use mock library http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/. There is
> no user group for the library, so I post in comp.lang.python and hope
> that people who use it will help me.
> 
> The library allows to patch objects, using patch decorator. Patching
> is done only within the scope of the function. So if I have a lot of
> tests that need specific object to be patched I have to specify the
> same decorator for each test method:
> 
> class TestSomething(unittest.TestCase):
> 
>     @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
>     def test_method1(self, MockClass):
>         Class()
>         self.assertEquals(MockClass.called)
> 
>     @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
>     def test_method2(self, MockClass):
>         Class()
>         MockClass.assert_called_with('foo')
> 
>     @patch('module.Class', spec = True)
>      def test_method3(self, MockClass):
>         foo = Class()
>         self.assertRaises(AttributeError, foo.some_method)
> 
>     # and more ...
> 
> So for every test method I always do the same patching! How can I
> avoid this?

I don't know mock, but the following is generic and should continue to work 
when you replace the faux patch() function with the one from the mock 
module.

import unittest

def patch(v):
    def patch(f):
        print "%s-patching" % v, f.__name__
        return f
    return patch

def make_postprocess(*args, **kw):
    def postprocess(name, bases, classdict):
        for k, v in classdict.items():
            if k.startswith("test_"):
                classdict[k] = patch(*args, **kw)(v)
        return type(name, bases, classdict)
    return postprocess

class A(unittest.TestCase):
    __metaclass__ = make_postprocess("Y")
    def test_bar(self):
        print "bar"
    def test_baz(self):
        print "baz"
    def foo(self):
        pass

if __name__ == "__main__":
    unittest.main()

Peter




From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:26:45 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:26:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Walking lists
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <f3c517ce-233c-4c3e-8e9c-2789ea6f26b2@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>



lallous wrote:
> Hello
>
>
> I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
> the code:
>
> L = (
>   (1, 2, 3),
>   (4,),
>   (5,),
>   (6, 7)
> )
>
> for x in L:
>     print x
>
> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
>
> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
>   print first_element
>   for x in the_rest:
>     # now access the rest of the elements
>
> I know I can :
> for x in L:
>     first = x[0]
>     rest = x[1:]

Others have replied about Python 3.  In Python 2.x, you can use an
iterator:

for tuple in L:
    it = iter(tuple)
    first = it.next()
    for x in it:
        ...

HTH

--
Arnaud


From elias.bachaalany at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:30:06 2010
From: elias.bachaalany at gmail.com (lallous)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:30:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Walking lists
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <e030ccd8-0bb4-4fc4-a614-3e62c698d4af@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>

Thank you all for the replies.

The solution using Python 3's syntax look very intuitive.

Thanks Tim, Arnaud for the idea (I am using 2.x)

--
Elias
On Feb 25, 1:28?pm, lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello
>
> I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
> the code:
>
> L = (
> ? (1, 2, 3),
> ? (4,),
> ? (5,),
> ? (6, 7)
> )
>
> for x in L:
> ? ? print x
>
> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
>
> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
> ? print first_element
> ? for x in the_rest:
> ? ? # now access the rest of the elements
>
> I know I can :
> for x in L:
> ? ? first = x[0]
> ? ? rest = x[1:]
> ? ? ....
> Probably that is not possible, but just asking.
>
> Thanks,
> Elias



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:30:12 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:30:12 +0100
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
Message-ID: <hm5u13$2u0$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hello everyone,

I have stumbled upon this seemingly trivial problem: the answer is not 
there in http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming/, and googling does 
not return many references really (at least for me).

I have come up with this:

def qips_identical(q, oldq):
     qips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), q)
     oldqips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), oldq)
     if len(qips) != len(oldqips):
         return False
     dif = set(qips) ^ set(oldqips)
     if len(dif):
         return False
     return True

There's a number of complications here, depending on definition of 
'lists with identical values', like whether the same value can be 
repeated different number of times in two lists, or whether the order of 
values matters.

In above example I assumed that the same values have to be repeated the 
same numbers of times in both lists and that order doesn't matter so 
long as the values are the same.

I was wondering if there's a better / shorter / faster way to do this -- 
not necessarily in the same variant, e.g. variant where order of two 
lists matters would be interesting as well.

Regards,
mk



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:38:19 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:38:19 +0100
Subject: Easter Eggs
In-Reply-To: <op.u8nuozc9x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
References: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<op.u8nuozc9x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
Message-ID: <hm5ug9$3q3$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 03:04, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> Also try:
> import antigravity

Is this Py3 egg? My 2.6 doesn't seem to get it.

Regards,
mk



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Thu Feb 25 08:44:20 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:44:20 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.219.1267095523.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>
	<mailman.219.1267095523.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm5urp$hi5$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 25.02.2010 11:58, schrieb Jean-Michel Pichavant:
>> You said it yourself: "simply make two or three functions and name
>> them appropiately" :-)
>>
>> When 2 methods of a class were to have the same name for doing
>> completely different things like you said, there's a design flaw to my
>> opinion.
>>
>> JM
> I wonder if I've just written that my opinion is flawed... It surely is,
> but that's not why I meant :-)

:D

Well, there might be cases when someone wants to do this. consider: 
(pseudocode - this is *not* python ;)

class Machines (Object):
	@classmethod
	def shutdown(cls, Machine, emergency=False):
	   try:
		if Machine is instanceof(Fileservers):
			if not emergency:
				Machine.unmount_raid_first()
				...
			Machine.halt()
		if Machine is instanceof(Router):
			if not emergency:
				cls.shutdown(Machine.attachedmachines)
			...
		...
	    finally:
		if emergency and Machine has powerswitch:
			Machine.powerswitch.Off()
	@classmethod
	def emergency(cls):
		for machine in cls.instances:
			cls.shutdown(machine, 1)

Other design patterns might me good too, but I like the idea of having 
emergency protocols in *one* place here. But without method overloading, 
there are many many nested 'if's.

One could say that the machines have to know how to shut down itself, 
but there might be dependencies they do not know about, and as said, it 
clutters the emergency protocol all over the modules.

One could define normal_shutdown() and emergency_shutdown(), but I do 
not like this eighter, and there are still many 'if's to seperate the types.

There are cases where *no* solution is perfect, and those are the cases 
where "2 methods of a class were to have the same name for doing 
completely different things" or other messy things like this are IMO 
*NOT* a design flaw.

Regards,
Michael


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 25 08:46:56 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:46:56 +0100
Subject: why (1, 2, 3)  > [1, 2, 3] is true?
In-Reply-To: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm5v0g$67r$1@dough.gmane.org>

fat bold cyclop, 25.02.2010 14:00:
> I tired to google for comparison of tuple to list but i failed.
> 
> Could anyone explain it to me?

Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.

Note that this was fixed in Py3:

Python 3.1.1+ (r311:74480, Nov  2 2009, 15:45:00)
[GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> (1,2,3) > [1,2,3]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: unorderable types: tuple() > list()


Stefan



From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Feb 25 08:46:56 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:46:56 +0100
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
References: <mailman.225.1267104624.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm5v0a$1fs$03$1@news.t-online.com>

mk wrote:

> I have stumbled upon this seemingly trivial problem: the answer is not
> there in http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming/, and googling does
> not return many references really (at least for me).
> 
> I have come up with this:
> 
> def qips_identical(q, oldq):

>      qips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), q)
>      oldqips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), oldq)

I don't think the above is a relevant part of the problem.

>      if len(qips) != len(oldqips):
>          return False
>      dif = set(qips) ^ set(oldqips)
>      if len(dif):
>          return False
>      return True
> 
> There's a number of complications here, depending on definition of
> 'lists with identical values', like whether the same value can be
> repeated different number of times in two lists, or whether the order of
> values matters.
> 
> In above example I assumed that the same values have to be repeated the
> same numbers of times in both lists and that order doesn't matter so
> long as the values are the same.

No you haven't. [1, 1, 0] and [1, 0, 0] are considered equal by your 
algorithm.

> I was wondering if there's a better / shorter / faster way to do this --
> not necessarily in the same variant, e.g. variant where order of two
> lists matters would be interesting as well.

sorted(left_list) == sorted(right_list)

should be good enough in most cases where you do care for repetitions but 
not order.

Peter


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:55:26 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:55:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
References: <mailman.225.1267104624.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <045a9d2d-3fd7-4aed-9fb3-83e7e70cc881@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>



mk wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have stumbled upon this seemingly trivial problem: the answer is not
> there in http://www.python.org/doc/faq/programming/, and googling does
> not return many references really (at least for me).
>
> I have come up with this:
>
> def qips_identical(q, oldq):
>      qips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), q)
>      oldqips = map(operator.itemgetter(1), oldq)
>      if len(qips) != len(oldqips):
>          return False
>      dif = set(qips) ^ set(oldqips)
>      if len(dif):
>          return False
>      return True
>
> There's a number of complications here, depending on definition of
> 'lists with identical values', like whether the same value can be
> repeated different number of times in two lists, or whether the order of
> values matters.
>
> In above example I assumed that the same values have to be repeated the
> same numbers of times in both lists and that order doesn't matter so
> long as the values are the same.

Your code checks if the two lists have the same length and the same
elements, but not necessarily the same number of each elements. E.g.

    qips = [1, 1, 2]
    oldqips = [1, 2, 2]

will return True

If you want to check if each value has the same number of occurences,
you can do

    return sorted(qips) == sorted(oldqips)

assuming that all elements in the lists are comparable.

--
Arnaud


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Feb 25 08:58:16 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:58:16 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100225085816.fc9d4013.darcy@druid.net>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:26:18 -0800 (PST)
simn_stv <nanyaks at googlemail.com> wrote:
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day

That's nothing.  I ran a financial type app on Python that sometimes
hit 100,000 transactions an hour.  We kept looking for bottlenecks that
we could convert to C but never found any.  Our biggest problem was in
a network heavy element of the app and that was low level TCP/IP stuff
that rather than being Python's problem was something we used Python to
fix.

As others have pointed out, you will want some kind of enterprise
database that will do a lot of the heavy lifting.  I suggest
PostgreSQL.  It is the best open source database engine around.  That
will take the biggest load off your app.

There's lots of decisions to make in the days ahead but I think that
choosing Python as your base language is a good first one.

> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.

Scaleability and efficiency won't be your issues.  Speed of development
and clarity of code will be.  Python wins.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From fat.bold.cyclop at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:03:03 2010
From: fat.bold.cyclop at gmail.com (fat bold cyclop)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:03:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

> Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
valid.
But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?

Thanks again,
fbc


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:05:56 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:05:56 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2010.02.25.01.07.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.07.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hm6042$b2d$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:23:17 +0100, mk wrote:
>
>> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
>> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for them,
>> so they will not have to remember and type them in.
>
> So to break your application's security model, all somebody has to do is
> use their PC and they have full access to their account?
>
> Or get hold of the copy and paste buffer?
>
> Or the application's config files?

Yes. There's no way around this, short of forcing them to use hardware 
key, which is an overkill for this application.

>> So I have little in
>> the way of limitations of password length - even though in *some* cases
>> somebody might have to (or be ignorant enough) to retype the password
>> instead of pasting it in.

> Or your users might be sensible enough to not trust a role-your-own
> security model, and prefer to memorize the password than to trust that
> nobody will get access to their PC.

The app is not that critical, it's about quarterly subscription to the 
service, and the users will be able to reset the password anyway. If it 
were that critical, I'd use the hardware keys; if hardware keys are not 
used, once somebody gains an (unconstrained) access to the user's PC, 
there's not much that app developer can do. I've read somewhere a 
warning from PuTTY developer that even though the key is (normally) 
protected by the passphrase, losing even an encrypted key is quite 
likely to lead to its compromise. There's even some software for that on 
the net:

http://www.neophob.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/127-PuTTY-Private-Key-cracker.html


>> The main application will access the data using HTTP (probably), so the
>> main point is that an attacker is not able to guess passwords using
>> brute force.

> And why would they bother doing that when they can sniff the wire and get
> the passwords in plain text? You should assume your attackers are
> *smarter* than you, not trust them to be foolish.

I should have written HTTPS.

Regards,
mk



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 25 09:18:38 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:18:38 +0100
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
In-Reply-To: <b3dfe5ad-9ca8-4cf7-9055-cdd15dc14dab@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<m2vddrd0qj.fsf@googlemail.com>	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<4b810953$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
	<b3dfe5ad-9ca8-4cf7-9055-cdd15dc14dab@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8686BE.5020907@sequans.com>

lallous wrote:
> I still prefer not to call at all, even if it was an empty function.
>
> Regards,
> Elias
>   

Is there any way we could convince you that there is no point caring 
about this ? Even if you were trying to optimize speed, it would still 
require proof that an empty function is part of the problem.
It sounds like someone stating "I prefer to write difficult-to-read 
code, because in 1978, code size used to matter".

JM


From chardster at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:21:56 2010
From: chardster at gmail.com (Richard Thomas)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:21:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d8891a71-f110-4c1b-b941-85b975b44a6d@v13g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 2:03?pm, fat bold cyclop <fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
>
> Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
> valid.
> But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
> Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?
>
> Thanks again,
> fbc

I believe in 2.x they are ordered by the names of their types but I
could be wrong.

1 < [] < '' < () < u''


From iainking at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:22:53 2010
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:22:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0f015e4c-bc37-4322-aa5c-e071e860efd3@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 2:03?pm, fat bold cyclop <fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
>
> Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
> valid.
> But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
> Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?
>
> Thanks again,
> fbc

I haven't looked in the source to check (and I'm almost 100% certain
that tuple > list is an implementation detail), but I have not found
any pair of tuple and list in which the list is treated as the
greater.  Possibly related: type(tuple()) is > type(list()). Or, to
let the interpreter tell you why (1,2,3) > [1,2,3]:

>>> tuple > list
True

Iain


From daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com  Thu Feb 25 09:25:22 2010
From: daniel at stutzbachenterprises.com (Daniel Stutzbach)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:25:22 -0600
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
In-Reply-To: <hm5u13$2u0$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <hm5u13$2u0$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <eae285401002250625u6e5283c8s3bccf6e3da22783c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:30 AM, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:

> There's a number of complications here, depending on definition of 'lists
> with identical values', like whether the same value can be repeated
> different number of times in two lists, or whether the order of values
> matters.
>

Order and repetitions matter:
list1 == list2

Repetition matters, order does not:
sorted(list1) == sorted(list2) # items must be comparable

Neither matters:
set(list1) == set(list2) # items must be hashable

--
Daniel Stutzbach, Ph.D.
President, Stutzbach Enterprises, LLC <http://stutzbachenterprises.com>
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Feb 25 09:27:47 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:27:47 +0100
Subject: Walking lists
In-Reply-To: <e030ccd8-0bb4-4fc4-a614-3e62c698d4af@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<e030ccd8-0bb4-4fc4-a614-3e62c698d4af@x22g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B8688E3.9000909@sequans.com>

lallous wrote:
> Thank you all for the replies.
>
> The solution using Python 3's syntax look very intuitive.
>
> Thanks Tim, Arnaud for the idea (I am using 2.x)
>
> --
> Elias
> On Feb 25, 1:28 pm, lallous <elias.bachaal... at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hello
>>
>> I am still learning Python, and have a question, perhaps I can shorten
>> the code:
>>
>> L = (
>>   (1, 2, 3),
>>   (4,),
>>   (5,),
>>   (6, 7)
>> )
>>
>> for x in L:
>>     print x
>>
>> What I want, is to write the for loop, something like this:
>>
>> for (first_element, the_rest) in L:
>>   print first_element
>>   for x in the_rest:
>>     # now access the rest of the elements
>>
>> I know I can :
>> for x in L:
>>     first = x[0]
>>     rest = x[1:]
>>     ....
>> Probably that is not possible, but just asking.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Elias
>>     
Using slicing + list comprehension with python 2.x

for first, rest in [(e[0],e[1:]) for e in L]:
     print first
     print rest


1
(2, 3)
4
()
5
()
6
(7,)


But honestly, the code you provided is just fine.

JM


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 09:43:53 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:43:53 +0100
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
In-Reply-To: <045a9d2d-3fd7-4aed-9fb3-83e7e70cc881@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.225.1267104624.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<045a9d2d-3fd7-4aed-9fb3-83e7e70cc881@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm62b7$j49$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 14:55, Arnaud Delobelle wrote:

> Your code checks if the two lists have the same length and the same
> elements, but not necessarily the same number of each elements. E.g.
>
>      qips = [1, 1, 2]
>      oldqips = [1, 2, 2]
>
> will return True
>
> If you want to check if each value has the same number of occurences,
> you can do
>
>      return sorted(qips) == sorted(oldqips)
>
> assuming that all elements in the lists are comparable.

Thanks!

Regards,
mk



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 25 09:54:58 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:54:58 +0100
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
In-Reply-To: <480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm6303$mb9$1@dough.gmane.org>

fat bold cyclop, 25.02.2010 15:03:
>> Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
> Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
> valid.
> But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
> Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?

The result is predictable, it's just arbitrary in that it does not depend
on the values that you are comparing but only on their type.

Stefan



From mrkafk at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:03:47 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:03:47 +0100
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 02:31, Paul Rubin wrote:
> It might be helpful if you could say what your application does, or
> anyway give an idea of what its actual security requirements are.
> Generating and emailing someone a random password is a fairly standard
> method for (e.g.) web forums to verify that the person has supplied a
> working email address, basically as a first level spam filter.  Your
> scheme is probably ok for that.  If you're doing something with more
> demanding security requirements, then as mentioned before, there is a
> whole lot of stuff you have to pay attention to, and focusing narrowly
> on password generation isn't that useful.

OK some data:

1. I'm going to probably use HTTPS (I meant HTTP over SSL, but wrote 
HTTP instead of being precise)

2. The app will have GUI and it will be locally installed; it's not 
going to be web app, it will just be online in the sense of downloading 
data frequently from the net.

3. I can't disclose the details on what the app will be doing, but it's 
not going to be terribly security-critical, medium-level at most - what 
happens in the app itself is not _directly_ related to money.

4. The app will be based on subscription model, costing $10-$20 per 
month. It's not really doing online banking or smth like that.

5. The worst thing that can happen when security of some account is 
compromised is that the user will have to reset the password, resending 
it to predefined email (I don't really see the way of organizing it in a 
different manner).

I'm thinking about optionally passphrase-securing the password saved in 
GUI. In that case 'diceware' approach would be helpful.

I certainly do not want to focus narrowly on password generation: the 
entire security model will have to be worked out, but the project didn't 
get to that stage yet, it's all still in planning stages. I just wanted 
to have this one part (password generation) researched before I get to 
other stages so I don't have to implement this later in haste and do 
smth wrong.

Regards,
mk



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 25 10:07:12 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:07:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-25, Paul Rudin <paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk> wrote:
> kj <no.email at please.post> writes:
>
>> I think I remember, early in my learning of Python, coming across
>> the commandment "THOU SHALT NOT USE TRIPLE-QUOTES TO COMMENT-OUT
>> LINES OF CODE", or something to that effect.  But now I can't find
>> it!
>
> No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
> (other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
> be nested.

if 0:

Seriously, that's what I generally do: mark the block of code,
indent it 1 level, add an if 0: at the top.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! What a COINCIDENCE!
                                  at               I'm an authorized "SNOOTS
                               visi.com            OF THE STARS" dealer!!


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 10:26:32 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:32 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
Message-ID: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>

Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to 
young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use 
an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.

The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with 
english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine 
identifiers and messages in the language of the kid.

In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
   COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the 
identifiers to the language of the user.

Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it 
would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.


Also, i would need a way to debug the program, so set up breakpoints, 
execute line by line, inspect variables, is there any API for this in 
embedded python?

Thank you,
   Luca


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 25 10:29:34 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:29:34 +0000
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/25/10 13:58, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:26:18 -0800 (PST)
<cut>
> Our biggest problem was in
> a network heavy element of the app and that was low level TCP/IP stuff
> that rather than being Python's problem was something we used Python to
> fix.
<cut>
Out off interest, could you elaborate on that?

Thanks

-- 
mph


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Thu Feb 25 10:39:27 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:27 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
	<hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm65jj$ip7$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 25.02.2010 16:07, schrieb Grant Edwards:
> On 2010-02-25, Paul Rudin<paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk>  wrote:
>> No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
>> (other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
>> be nested.
>
> if 0:
>
> Seriously, that's what I generally do: mark the block of code,
> indent it 1 level, add an if 0: at the top.
>

I really hate it when I see something like this in other's code.
The fact that my IDE (vim) still displays this like valid code ready to 
be executed can cause extreme frustration while trying to spot a bug.

This is almost as bad as "commenting out" (parts of) a for loop by 
adding a continue.

I once saw this in production code and wanted to kill the original 
developer, as commenting out the parts of the code with the continue (it 
was a *biiiig* for-loop) for debugging purposes actually would have 
*enabled* the code below, thus rendering the whole database useless.

Lucky me that I a) had backups b) set up a sandbox and c) actually saw 
this before it was too late.

Regards,
Michael


From affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com  Thu Feb 25 10:39:34 2010
From: affdfsdfdsfsd at b.com (Tracubik)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 15:39:34 GMT
Subject: round() function
Message-ID: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>

hi all, i've this sample code:

>>> n = 4.499
>>> str(round(n,2))
'4.5'

that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.

How can I solve this?

Thanks in advance
Nico


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Feb 25 10:45:16 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:45:16 -0600
Subject: round() function
In-Reply-To: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4B869B0C.5060601@tim.thechases.com>

Tracubik wrote:
>>>> n = 4.499
>>>> str(round(n,2))
> '4.5'
> 
> that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
> Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.

Use string formatting:

   >>> "%0.2f" % round(4.499, 2)
   '4.50'

-tkc





From ivan.python1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:45:37 2010
From: ivan.python1 at gmail.com (mailing list)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:45:37 +0100
Subject: round() function
In-Reply-To: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4B869B21.4010808@gmail.com>

On 25.2.2010. 16:39, Tracubik wrote:
> hi all, i've this sample code:
>
>    
>>>> n = 4.499
>>>> str(round(n,2))
>>>>          
> '4.5'
>
> that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
> Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.
>
> How can I solve this?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Nico
>    
You may wanna use string formating, e.g.: print "%.2f" % 4.5


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Feb 25 10:46:18 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:46:18 +0100
Subject: round() function
In-Reply-To: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <hm660a$2oe$1@dough.gmane.org>

Tracubik, 25.02.2010 16:39:
> hi all, i've this sample code:
> 
>>>> n = 4.499
>>>> str(round(n,2))
> '4.5'
> 
> that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
> Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.
> 
> How can I solve this?

Format the number as a string:

    print("%.2f" % round(n,2))

Stefan



From jlconlin at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:48:44 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of string?
Message-ID: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts
them into a dictionary, i.e.

'(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'

Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
float objects instead of strings?

Thanks,
Jeremy


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Thu Feb 25 10:51:40 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:51:40 +0100
Subject: round() function
In-Reply-To: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b8699b5$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <hm66ah$iue$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 25.02.2010 16:39, schrieb Tracubik:
> hi all, i've this sample code:
>
>>>> n = 4.499
>>>> str(round(n,2))
> '4.5'
>
> that's right, but what i want is '4.50' to be displayed instead of '4.5'.
> Off course i know that 4.5 = 4.50, still i'ld like to have 4.50.
>
> How can I solve this?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Nico

This has nothing to do with round().
round() returns a float, and float(4.50) is 4.5.

You can *print* it as 4.50 using format strings, but the float will 
always be 4.5


 >>> n = 4.499
 >>> x=round(n,2)
 >>> x
4.5
 >>> print "%.2f" % x
4.50
 >>> s="%.2f" % round(n,2)
 >>> s
'4.50'
 >>>


From nicola.larosa at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 10:51:51 2010
From: nicola.larosa at gmail.com (Nicola Larosa (tekNico))
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:51:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Recommended "new" way for config files
References: <mailman.597.1262880612.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <28c20bf9-2522-442d-a6b9-82a68f267dd5@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Peter wrote:
> There seems to be several strategies to enhance the old ini-style config
> files with real python code
> [...]
> Is there a strategy that should be prefered for new projects ?

5) Use ConfigObj <http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/configobj.html>,
by Michael Foord and yours truly. It uses an extension of the ini-
style config format. Sorry for the multiple brackets, my fault. :-)

--
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/

Ci sono paesi in cui un gesto violento se compiuto da un uomo su una
don-
na ? punito pi? severamente: si chiama uguaglianza sostanziale,
compensa
la disuguaglianza di partenza. [...] Se vince la cultura dei
"vincenti"
le donne perderanno. Non fanno la guerra, in genere. ? una perdita di
tempo: hanno altro da fare. - Concita De Gregorio, Novembre 2009


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Feb 25 10:58:14 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:58:14 -0500
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
	<e78625c9-0b03-458f-8209-21dfb43cd18d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm66op$t5u$1@speranza.aioe.org>

sjdevnull at yahoo.com wrote:

> You're right that ref counting in many implementations is more
> deterministic than other common forms of garbage collection; IMO,
> Python would be well-served by making the ref-counting semantics it
> currently has a guaranteed part of the language spec--or at least
> guaranteeing that when a function returns, any otherwise unreferenced
> locals are immediately collected.

That would be nice.  The argument against it is that it would make 
implementations like Jython very difficult to make, if it didn't rule them 
out altogether.

	Mel.




From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:11:09 2010
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:11:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A more pythonish code
References: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9a564658-8b6b-4510-ba1f-ac259c7d8700@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>



prasad_chand wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I use python to do simple math problems as a hobby.
>
> I have made a program that finds the number of divisors(factors) of a
> given number. I am hoping to improve my language skills, specifically
> I would like to re-write the function "prime_factors" more gracefully.
> While the program works right, I am hoping that I could get some input
> on how to write better python code. I have attached the code below.
>
>
> def prime_factors(n):
>     """
>     Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add (4+1)
> (1+1) = 10)
>
>     Updates a global dictionary(my_dict) with prime numbers and number
> of occurances. In the case of 48 {2:4,3:1}
>
>     """
>     tmp_n = n
>
>     while True:
>
>         if tmp_n == 1:
>             break
>
>         tmp_check = tmp_n
>
>         for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
>             if tmp_n % x == 0:
>                 add_to_dict(x)
>                 tmp_n /= x
>                 break
>
>         if tmp_check == tmp_n: #number is prime...so just to add to
> dict
>             add_to_dict(tmp_n)
>             break
>
>
> def add_one(x):
>     return x+1
>
>
> def mul(x,y):
>     return x * y
>
> def add_to_dict(p_num):
>     if my_dict.has_key(p_num):
>         my_dict[p_num] += 1
>     else:
>         my_dict[p_num] = 1
>
>
> my_dict = {}
>
>
> prime_factors(135)
> l = map(add_one,my_dict.values())
> print reduce(mul, l, 1)
>
>
> Thanks for your time.

I did a quick refactoring for Python 3.1 (should mostly work in older
versions too):

from math import ceil, sqrt
from functools import reduce
from collections import defaultdict
from operator import mul

def prime_factors(n):
    """
    Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add
(4+1)
    (1+1) = 10)
    """
    factors = defaultdict(int)
    while n != 1:
        for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(n)) + 1)):
            if n % x == 0:
                factors[x] += 1
                n /= x
                break
        else:
            #number is prime...so just to add to dict
            factors[int(n)] += 1
            break
    return factors

factors = prime_factors(135)
exponents = [x+1 for x in factors.values()]
print(reduce(mul, exponents, 1))



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Feb 25 11:16:58 2010
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:16:58 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <hm5urp$hi5$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<mailman.155.1267007304.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm33ai$pe6$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>	<4B8651BE.7080500@sequans.com>
	<mailman.219.1267095523.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm5urp$hi5$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <4b86a265$0$695$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Michael Rudolf a ?crit :
(snip)
> (pseudocode - this is *not* python ;)
> 
> class Machines (Object):
>     @classmethod
>     def shutdown(cls, Machine, emergency=False):
>        try:
>         if Machine is instanceof(Fileservers):


>             if not emergency:
>                 Machine.unmount_raid_first()
>                 ...
>             Machine.halt()
>         if Machine is instanceof(Router):
>             if not emergency:
>                 cls.shutdown(Machine.attachedmachines)
>             ...
>         ...
>         finally:
>         if emergency and Machine has powerswitch:
>             Machine.powerswitch.Off()
>     @classmethod
>     def emergency(cls):
>         for machine in cls.instances:
>             cls.shutdown(machine, 1)
> 

> One could say that the machines have to know how to shut down itself, 

Indeed !-)

> but there might be dependencies they do not know about,

Then it's the "Machines" (or a "MachineShutdownProtocol" or whatever) 
responsability to manage correct operation order, and you need an API to 
allow communication between the Machine objects and the WhateverItsName 
object in charge of monitoring the process.

All this if you do care about correct OO design, of course - as far as 
I'm concerned, practicallity beats purity !-)

> and as said, it 
> clutters the emergency protocol all over the modules.

Tradeoff, tradeoff. The above won't work for a "plug&play" system.

> There are cases where *no* solution is perfect,

There is always at least one "less worse" solution, depending on the 
concrete use case.


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Feb 25 11:18:14 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:18:14 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <20100225111814.c32887b9.darcy@druid.net>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:29:34 +0000
"Martin P. Hellwig" <martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org> wrote:
> On 02/25/10 13:58, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:26:18 -0800 (PST)
> <cut>
> > Our biggest problem was in
> > a network heavy element of the app and that was low level TCP/IP stuff
> > that rather than being Python's problem was something we used Python to
> > fix.
> <cut>
> Out off interest, could you elaborate on that?

Somewhat - there is an NDA so I can't give exact details.  It was
crucial to our app that we sync up databases in Canada and the US (later
Britain, Europe and Japan) in real time with those transactions.  Our
problem was that even though our two server systems were on the
backbone, indeed with the same major carrier, we could not keep them in
sync.  We were taking way to long to transact an update across the
network.

The problem had to do with the way TCP/IP works, especially closer to
the core.  Our provider was collecting data and sending it only after
filling a buffer or after a timeout.  The timeout was short so it
wouldn't normally be noticed and in most cases (web pages e.g.) the
connection is opened, data is pushed and the connection is closed so
the buffer is flushed immediately.  Our patterns were different so we
were hitting the timeout on every single transaction and there was no
way we would have been able to keep up.

Our first crack at fixing this was to simply add garbage to the packet
we were sending.  Making the packets an order of magnitude bigger sped
up the proccessing dramatically.  That wasn't a very clean solution
though so we looked for a better way.

That better way turned out to asynchronous update transactions.  All we
did was keep feeding updates to the remote site and forget about ACKS.
We then had a second process which handled ACKS and tracked which
packets had been properly transferred.  The system had IDs on each
update and retries happened if ACKS didn't happen soon enough.
Naturally we ignored ACKS that we had already processed.

All of the above (and much more complexity not even discussed here) was
handled by Python code and database manipulation.  There were a few
bumps along the way but overall it worked fine.  If we were using C or
even assembler we would not have sped up anything and the solution we
came up with would have been horrendous to code.  As it was I and my
chief programmer locked ourselves in the boardroom and had a working
solution before the day was out.

Python wins again.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From electriclightheads at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:22:22 2010
From: electriclightheads at gmail.com ('2+)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:22:22 +0900
Subject: hs.py = run an exec and pipe back the result as a member of a list
Message-ID: <1078018b1002250822y2998e500r85f52646fa1fd190@mail.gmail.com>

did this for hascillator01 that i ghc-ed from hascillator01.hs into ./

import popen2

wave = []
for frame in range(890, 1010):
wave.append(int(popen2.Popen3('./hascillator01 ' +
str(frame)).fromchild.readline()))
print wave

hascillator01 takes int and returns another int
so yes this became a [ints] and that is what i expected
but also yes it is so slow
any cooler way to do it?
now am reading the suprocess's doc .. but a bit hard to get it

-- 
SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
is podcasting:
http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml


From electriclightheads at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:24:33 2010
From: electriclightheads at gmail.com ('2+)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:24:33 +0900
Subject: hs.py = run an exec and pipe back the result as a member of a 
	list
In-Reply-To: <1078018b1002250822y2998e500r85f52646fa1fd190@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1078018b1002250822y2998e500r85f52646fa1fd190@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1078018b1002250824x26fe456cg9588e1d7b64386e7@mail.gmail.com>

oops the code was wrong .. sorry

import popen2

wave = []
for frame in range(890, 1010):
    wave.append(int(popen2.Popen3('./hascillator01 ' +
str(frame)).fromchild.readline()))
print wave

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 1:22 AM, '2+ <electriclightheads at gmail.com> wrote:
> did this for hascillator01 that i ghc-ed from hascillator01.hs into ./
>
> import popen2
>
> wave = []
> for frame in range(890, 1010):
> wave.append(int(popen2.Popen3('./hascillator01 ' +
> str(frame)).fromchild.readline()))
> print wave
>
> hascillator01 takes int and returns another int
> so yes this became a [ints] and that is what i expected
> but also yes it is so slow
> any cooler way to do it?
> now am reading the suprocess's doc .. but a bit hard to get it
>
> --
> SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
> is podcasting:
> http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
>



-- 
SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
is podcasting:
http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 11:31:32 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 08:31:32 -0800
Subject: Easter Eggs
References: <hksrma$idd$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<op.u8nuozc9x6zn5v@gabriel.sleipnir-bsas>
	<mailman.226.1267105118.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm68l4$q0s$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.226.1267105118.4577.python-list at python.org>,
mk  <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
>On 2010-02-25 03:04, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>>
>> Also try:
>> import antigravity
>
>Is this Py3 egg? My 2.6 doesn't seem to get it.

Maybe 2.7 will have it; 3.0.1 does.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:32:20 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:32:20 -0600
Subject: Is this secure?
In-Reply-To: <hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <hm68mm$du7$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 09:03 AM, mk wrote:

> 2. The app will have GUI and it will be locally installed; it's not
> going to be web app, it will just be online in the sense of downloading
> data frequently from the net.

If you are storing the password instead of making your user remember it, most 
platforms have some kind of keychain secure password storage. I recommend 
reading up on the APIs available on your targeted platforms.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From skylarking11 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 11:33:31 2010
From: skylarking11 at gmail.com (Sky Larking)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:33:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Trouble with ftplib uploading to an FTP server
References: <6c7a868d-cd0e-45e8-995f-89944ebb86ab@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.193.1267044970.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<79927f7d-d186-46f1-ab58-94a8d5f973fc@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.212.1267078216.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b518e48-655e-43a6-ac8c-dd473cdcba22@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 1:10?am, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:21:58 -0800 (PST), Sky Larking
> <skylarkin... at gmail.com> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > For instance I just ran the script and os.rename() renamed it to:
>
> > TestMachine.local @ 02-24-2010 2020.txt
>
> > in that .txt file it reads:
>
> > Asset: TestMachine.local Checking in from IP#: xx.xxx.xx.xxx
>
> > This is what I want, but the FTP piece doesn't seem to work...
>
> ? ? ? ? But since you haven't CLOSED the file before invoking the FTP
> operation, the contents are probably in a write buffer that hasn't been
> flushed. Renaming a file only changes the directory entry -- doesn't do
> anything for what may or may not be in the file.
>
> ? ? ? ? After the program exits, the file get closed, which means the
> buffers are flushed.
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

I see my mistake now, I closed the file ...then did the upload ... and
the data was there --
thanks for the help


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 11:33:59 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 08:33:59 -0800
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm68pn$7nb$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728 at i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
simn_stv  <nanyaks at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
>estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
>(hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
>or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
>gets pretty busy...

Remember that YouTube runs on Python.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From hseylan at dr.com  Thu Feb 25 11:35:40 2010
From: hseylan at dr.com (huseyin)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:35:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CGI File Upload Problem with Python 3.1 on IIS 7
Message-ID: <05322717-d98b-4da4-8b3a-333b42f19f89@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to upload files through cgi script written in python 3.1
on a Windows IIS 7 server.
The server time out when I write in usual way that is

form=cgi.cgi.FieldStorage()
fileitem = form['filename']
fn = os.path.basename(fileitem.filename)
open('/tmp/' + fn, 'wb').write(fileitem.file.read())

I think there is a problem with stdin, I checked it with:

s=sys.stdin.buffer.read(1024)
print (s)

I prints the first 1024 bytes of the input stream. But when I write

s=1
while s:
     s=sys.stdin.buffer.read(1024)
     print (s)

the server stops responding. I think there is a problem that Python
cannot understand end of input stream.

I searched this on the net but could not find a solution.

Thanks


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Thu Feb 25 11:39:11 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:39:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
	<hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm65jj$ip7$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm693f$3ev$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-25, Michael Rudolf <spamfresser at ch3ka.de> wrote:
> Am 25.02.2010 16:07, schrieb Grant Edwards:
>> On 2010-02-25, Paul Rudin<paul.nospam at rudin.co.uk>  wrote:
>>> No idea, but it would be nice to have some multiline comment syntax
>>> (other than # at the beginning of each line). Particularly one that can
>>> be nested.
>>
>> if 0:
>>
>> Seriously, that's what I generally do: mark the block of code,
>> indent it 1 level, add an if 0: at the top.
>
> I really hate it when I see something like this in other's
> code. 

The only time you'll see that in my code is if you're watching
over my shoulder as I troublshoot something.

> The fact that my IDE (vim) still displays this like valid code
> ready to be executed can cause extreme frustration while
> trying to spot a bug.

Nobody in their right mind _leaves_ "commented out" code like
that (or other commenting mechanisms) in a program after
they're done with whatever little experiment they were
performing.

I know people who will re-write a block of code and leave the
old code there, but comment it out, along with the date and
their name, and other such nonsense.  I hate that. Keeping
track of what _used_ to be there and who changed what when is
the job of the version control system.  Trying to keep the
edit-history of a file in-line as comments just makes the code
hard to read and maintain.

> This is almost as bad as "commenting out" (parts of) a for
> loop by adding a continue.

IMO, any sort of "commented out" code left in a program is a
big mistake.  If the code is soething that does need to stay
for optional use, then it needs to be properly integrated along
with logic to control when it's used.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Four thousand
                                  at               different MAGNATES, MOGULS
                               visi.com            & NABOBS are romping in my
                                                   gothic solarium!!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 11:41:01 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 16:41:01 GMT
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of
	string?
References: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b86a81d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800, Jeremy wrote:

> I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts them
> into a dictionary, i.e.
> 
> '(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'
> 
> Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
> float objects instead of strings?

No. Just convert the match with int() or float() before storing it in the 
dictionary. That is, instead of:

d[key] = match

use

d[key] = float(match)

or similar.

-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 11:45:58 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 16:45:58 GMT
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4b86a946$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:26:32 +0100, Luca wrote:

> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to
> young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use
> an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
> 
> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine
> identifiers and messages in the language of the kid.

>>> len("hello")
5
>>> length = len
>>> length("hello")
5

However, you can't rename statements such as for, while, if and similar, 
nor can you rename error messages. There might be an internationalised 
version of Python in the language the children speak. Have you tried 
googling?


> Also, i would need a way to debug the program, so set up breakpoints,
> execute line by line, inspect variables, is there any API for this in
> embedded python?

Have you tried the Python debugger?

import pdb



-- 
Steven


From lars at gustaebel.de  Thu Feb 25 11:51:17 2010
From: lars at gustaebel.de (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gust=E4bel?=)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:51:17 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <hm45ne$rnr$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
	<hm45ne$rnr$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20100225165117.GA30865@axis.g33x.de>

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 04:29:18PM -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 2/24/2010 5:14 AM, Lars Gust?bel wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
>>> I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
>>> TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
>>> search while they have a doc string:
>>
>> But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class has
>> three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
>> compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
>> classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
>> method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
>> decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
>> does many more other high-level things as well.
>
> By current standards, the three private methods should be prefixed with  
> '_' to indicate their private status. Could they be changed to head off  
> such questions?

I hope that this is not necessary. There are quite a few TarFile methods
more that are not documented and don't start with an underscore. I don't think
renaming all these is a good idea.

The original intention behind these methods was that I wanted a lower level API for
TarFile that can be used for subclassing but stays as stable as possible at the
same time. Methods starting with underscores look very much like you can't make
use of them. I don't know if this was a particularly good idea back then and I
don't know how popular it is to subclass the TarFile class to customize it, but
we cannot simply change the methods' names at this point if we don't want to
break other people's code. In other words, the cure sounds worse than the
disease in my opinion.

-- 
Lars Gust?bel
lars at gustaebel.de

I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth.
(Umberto Eco)


From jlconlin at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 12:00:07 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:00:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of 
	string?
References: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b86a81d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <d3328870-7a69-4ef6-bbe2-8bad2e9fde2c@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 9:41?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> > I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts them
> > into a dictionary, i.e.
>
> > '(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'
>
> > Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
> > float objects instead of strings?
>
> No. Just convert the match with int() or float() before storing it in the
> dictionary. That is, instead of:
>
> d[key] = match
>
> use
>
> d[key] = float(match)
>
> or similar.

I was afraid that was the only option.  Oh well, thought I'd ask
anyway.  Thanks for your help.
Jeremy


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Thu Feb 25 12:08:28 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:08:28 +0100
Subject: Pedantic pickling error after reload?
Message-ID: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net>

After (intended/controlled) reload or similar action on a 
module/class the pickle/cPickle.dump raises errors like

pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle <class 'somemodule.SomeClass'>: 
it's not the same object as somemodule.SomeClass


Cause in pickle.py (and cPickle) is a line
"if klass is not obj:"

Shouldn't it be enough to have  "if klass.__name__ != 
obj.__name__:" there?
=> a bug report/feature request?

Classes can change face anyway during pickled state, why should a 
over-pedantic reaction break things here during runtime?
(So far I'd need to walk the object tree in all facets and save 
against inf loops like pickle himself and re-class things .. )




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 12:15:50 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 17:15:50 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2010.02.25.01.07.31@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
	<mailman.234.1267106774.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b86b045$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:05:56 +0100, mk wrote:

> On 2010-02-25 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:23:17 +0100, mk wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, the passwords for authorized users will be copied and pasted
>>> from email into in the application GUI which will remember it for
>>> them, so they will not have to remember and type them in.
>>
>> So to break your application's security model, all somebody has to do
>> is use their PC and they have full access to their account?
>>
>> Or get hold of the copy and paste buffer?
>>
>> Or the application's config files?
> 
> Yes. There's no way around this, short of forcing them to use hardware
> key, which is an overkill for this application.

Of course there is. Why don't you find out how applications with real 
security work, instead of making up amateur insecure schemes or worrying 
about insignificant deviations from uniformity in your password generator?

You can't get hold of a user's login password in Linux or Windows by 
grabbing the copy-and-paste buffer, or by looking in the password file. 
No hardware key required.

Today, you say that your application only needs weak security because the 
value of the accounts are low. (If they're that low, why do you need a 
password at all?) But tomorrow, your application will be bigger, better, 
new and improved, with remote logins over the Internet and much more 
value -- and it will still be using the same crappy weak security that it 
has now, I guarantee it.

If you are storing the password, instead of a hash, you fail.

If you are storing a hash without a salt, you fail.

Yes, an awful lot of software do these things. They shouldn't, even for 
supposed "low value passwords".

http://blog.moertel.com/articles/2006/12/15/never-store-passwords-in-a-database

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/09/youre-probably-storing-passwords-incorrectly.html


>> Or your users might be sensible enough to not trust a role-your-own
>> security model, and prefer to memorize the password than to trust that
>> nobody will get access to their PC.
> 
> The app is not that critical, it's about quarterly subscription to the
> service, and the users will be able to reset the password anyway.

And when users realise that they don't need to buy a subscription, they 
just need to steal a password from somebody else, what does that do to 
your business model?




-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 12:18:09 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 17:18:09 GMT
Subject: The best way to check if two lists have identical values
References: <mailman.225.1267104624.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b86b0d1$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:30:12 +0100, mk wrote:

> In above example I assumed that the same values have to be repeated the
> same numbers of times in both lists and that order doesn't matter so
> long as the values are the same.

sorted(list1) == sorted(list2)

> I was wondering if there's a better / shorter / faster way to do this --
> not necessarily in the same variant, e.g. variant where order of two
> lists matters would be interesting as well.

list1 == list2




-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 12:20:44 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 17:20:44 GMT
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of 
	string?
References: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b86a81d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<d3328870-7a69-4ef6-bbe2-8bad2e9fde2c@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b86b16b$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:00:07 -0800, Jeremy wrote:

> On Feb 25, 9:41?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
>> > I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts
>> > them into a dictionary, i.e.
>>
>> > '(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'
>>
>> > Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
>> > float objects instead of strings?
>>
>> No. Just convert the match with int() or float() before storing it in
>> the dictionary. That is, instead of:
>>
>> d[key] = match
>>
>> use
>>
>> d[key] = float(match)
>>
>> or similar.
> 
> I was afraid that was the only option.  Oh well, thought I'd ask anyway.


Why "afraid"? What's the problem with calling int or float on the match?




-- 
Steven


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 12:42:43 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:42:43 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <4b86a946$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4b86a946$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7unr4kFe8jU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> However, you can't rename statements such as for, while, if and similar, 
> nor can you rename error messages. There might be an internationalised 
> version of Python in the language the children speak. Have you tried 
> googling?

Yeah, this is what i am talking about. It seems that keywords (if, 
while, for, etc) cannot be renamed at all. Not easily at least without 
recompiling Python from source. Same thing with error messages.

What i need is not an internationalized version of python in a specific 
language... but a simple way to let the teacher do it by 
himself/herself. Since python will be embedded in my application i could 
also load this via a text-file or XML file... but it seems that no API 
has been made available to solve this problem.

Logo is the only language i know that lets the user do this in a very 
simple way, that's why i brought it as example of what i need. In Logo 
every identifier can be changed with a simple startup file and every 
error message can be personalized by editing a text file. This allows 
any user/parent/teacher to personalize the language for their kids. What 
i need is an API that lets my application do something similar to the 
python library. Unfortunately it seems that there is no easy way to do it.

> Have you tried the Python debugger?
> 
> import pdb


Didn't know it, thank you. Now i need to understand if this PDB module 
can be used from the application that is embedding pythong (so that i 
can build a simple IDE to set breakpoints, show the current 
execution-line, skip it, etc.

Thanx,
   Luca


From jjposner at optimum.net  Thu Feb 25 12:57:14 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:57:14 -0500
Subject: A more pythonish code
In-Reply-To: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B86B9FA.7010609@optimum.net>

On 2/25/2010 7:23 AM, prasad_chand wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I use python to do simple math problems as a hobby.
>
> I have made a program that finds the number of divisors(factors) of a
> given number. I am hoping to improve my language skills, specifically
> I would like to re-write the function "prime_factors" more gracefully.
> While the program works right, I am hoping that I could get some input
> on how to write better python code. I have attached the code below.
>
>
> def prime_factors(n):
>      """
>      Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add (4+1)
> (1+1) = 10)
>
>      Updates a global dictionary(my_dict) with prime numbers and number
> of occurances. In the case of 48 {2:4,3:1}
>
>      """
>      tmp_n = n

A name meaning "temporary value of n" doesn't suggest how it's being 
used in the algorithm. In my implementation (see below), I used the name 
"last_result", which is (a little bit) better.
>
>      while True:
>
>          if tmp_n == 1:
>              break
>
>          tmp_check = tmp_n
>
>          for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
>              if tmp_n % x == 0:
>                  add_to_dict(x)

This function changes the value of a global variable, *my_dict*. Using 
global variables is frowned upon. In this case, it would be much better 
to have the dictionary be local to the *prime_factor* function. After 
you've broken out of the *while* loop, just execute "return my_dict".

>                  tmp_n /= x
>                  break
>
>          if tmp_check == tmp_n: #number is prime...so just to add to
> dict
>              add_to_dict(tmp_n)
>              break

The only reason that the *tmp_check* variable exists is to test whether 
you fell out of the *for* loop without finding any divisors for *tmp_n*. 
A cleaner approach is to use the optional *else* clause of the *for* 
loop, which is executed only if you didn't *break* out of the loop:

     for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
         if tmp_n % x == 0:
             add_to_dict(x)
             tmp_n /= x
             break
     else:
         # tmp_n is prime...so just to add to dict
         add_to_dict(tmp_n)
         break


>
>
> def add_one(x):
>      return x+1
>
>
> def mul(x,y):
>      return x * y
>
> def add_to_dict(p_num):
>      if my_dict.has_key(p_num):
>          my_dict[p_num] += 1
>      else:
>          my_dict[p_num] = 1
>

As poster pruebauno pointed out, using a collections.defaultdict 
eliminates the need for the *add_to_dict* function.

>
> my_dict = {}
>
>
> prime_factors(135)
> l = map(add_one,my_dict.values())
> print reduce(mul, l, 1)

This may seem trivial, but ... don't use the single-character lowercase 
"l" as a variable. It looks too much like the digit "1" -- in some 
fonts, it looks identical!

FWIW, here's my implementation. It's much slower, because it doesn't use 
the square root optimization. It uses another optimization: when a prime 
factor is located, *all* of its occurrences are factored out at the same 
time.

#--------------------------------
from collections import defaultdict

def prime_factors(n):
     """Return the prime factors of the given number (>= 2)"""
     if n < 2:
         print "arg must be >= 2"
         return

     last_result = n
     factors = defaultdict(int)
     next_divisor = 2

     while True:
         while last_result % next_divisor == 0:
             factors[next_divisor] += 1
             last_result /= next_divisor
             if last_result == 1:
                 return factors
         next_divisor += 1
#--------------------------------


HTH,
John


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Feb 25 13:22:40 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:22:40 +0000
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B86BFF0.60004@dcuktec.org>

On 02/25/10 16:18, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
<cut working around ISP's with braindead network configurations>
Very interesting, I had a similar kind of problem (a network balancer 
that doesn't balance small tcp packages too well) and solved it by 
wrapping the TCP package in UDP. UDP was treated differently, although 
in overall switch and router manager it has a lower priority compared to 
other tcp packages, in normal usage it was faster.

Probably because UDP has less things to inspect and by this can be 
processed faster by all the network equipment in between, but to be 
honest it worked for me and the client wasn't interested in academic 
explanations and since this was a working solution I didn't investigated 
it any further.

Oh and a big thank you for PyGreSQL,! It has proven to be an extremely 
useful module for me (especially since I used to hop a lot between 
different unixes and Windows).
-- 
mph


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 25 13:27:11 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:27:11 -0500
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
In-Reply-To: <d8891a71-f110-4c1b-b941-85b975b44a6d@v13g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.228.1267105634.4577.python-list@python.org>	<480ad03c-8bc5-4c02-9f90-f41fffafa5be@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<d8891a71-f110-4c1b-b941-85b975b44a6d@v13g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm6fe0$9nl$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/25/2010 9:21 AM, Richard Thomas wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2:03 pm, fat bold cyclop<fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> Both are not equal, so the comparison returns an arbitrary result in Py2.
>>
>> Thanks, Stefan. If I understand you correctly the comparison is not
>> valid.
>> But I wonder if there is any logic behind this (in 2.x).
>> Is it possible to predict result of this comparison?

In general, no. The result is arbitrary, with the constraint of being 
consistent within a particular run.

>> Thanks again,
>> fbc
>
> I believe in 2.x they are ordered by the names of their types but I
> could be wrong.

This is currently true in *CPython* 2.x, but that is an implementation 
artifact that has changed and might be different with other implementations.

Terry Jan Reedy





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Feb 25 13:31:47 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 13:31:47 -0500
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <20100225165117.GA30865@axis.g33x.de>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>	<hm45ne$rnr$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<20100225165117.GA30865@axis.g33x.de>
Message-ID: <hm6fmk$aqr$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/25/2010 11:51 AM, Lars Gust?bel wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 04:29:18PM -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> On 2/24/2010 5:14 AM, Lars Gust?bel wrote:
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
>>>> I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
>>>> TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
>>>> search while they have a doc string:
>>>
>>> But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class has
>>> three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
>>> compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
>>> classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
>>> method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
>>> decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
>>> does many more other high-level things as well.
>>
>> By current standards, the three private methods should be prefixed with
>> '_' to indicate their private status. Could they be changed to head off
>> such questions?
>
> I hope that this is not necessary. There are quite a few TarFile methods
> more that are not documented and don't start with an underscore. I don't think
> renaming all these is a good idea.
>
> The original intention behind these methods was that I wanted a lower level API for
> TarFile that can be used for subclassing but stays as stable as possible at the
> same time.

If you intended for the *names* (if not the base methods themselves) to 
be part of the public interface, then no underscores is appropriate. It 
is a tough in-between case. I guess good docs, including doc stings, is 
the best you can do to make the situation clear.

tjr




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Feb 25 13:38:57 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:38:57 -0800
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002251038v1a6b0864q87ee7e354766cfee@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca <lucat at despammed.com> wrote:
> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young
> kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an
> embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
>
> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine identifiers
> and messages in the language of the kid.
>
> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
> ?COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
> identifiers to the language of the user.
>
> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.

It can certainly be done (c.f. ChinesePython -
http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/english.html),
but I know of no framework that simplifies the task. Essentially, you
just have to manually modify Python's parser by swapping out the
english for the other language (and if you want to mess with the basic
types' names, their name definitions somewhere else too). There also
might be encoding issues to deal with.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de  Thu Feb 25 13:42:13 2010
From: gereon.kaiping at yahoo.de (Gereon Kaiping)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:42:13 +0100
Subject: Artificial Neural Networks recommendation wanted
In-Reply-To: <cde40d7f-30c8-4d8f-bcaa-904838dd50e0@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <mailman.157.1267015802.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<cde40d7f-30c8-4d8f-bcaa-904838dd50e0@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B86C485.80608@yahoo.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

>> - - PyNN (just a builder, requires external simulator) ?http://neuralensemble.org/trac/PyNN/
>> - - Con-x (part of pyro) ?http://pyrorobotics.org/?page=Conx
>> - - PyNeurGen (includes genetic algorithms) ?http://pyneurgen.sourceforge.net/
>> - - ffnet (only fast forward) ?http://ffnet.sourceforge.net/
>> - - brian (spiking networks) ?http://www.briansimulator.org/
>> - - PyBrain (machine learning) ?http://pybrain.org/

Thanks for the answers:

> Fann <http://leenissen.dk/fann/> has python bindings.
I saw it, but forgot to include it in my listing.

> PyNN and Brian are intended more for biologically-realistic neural
> networks (for some value of realistic), aka neuronal networks, so I
> guess you can rule them out (similar tools that you might come across
> are NEST, NEURON, PCSIM).
Yes, I thought so. (I might keep them in mind anyway, if I get to a more
biologically approach someday, just like ffnet, which doesn't support
recurrent networks but might be good in what it does.)

Fann seems to be inable to simulate recurrent networks, too. (There are
some older discussions, but I found no trace of a successful
implementation.)

So my main interest would be Con-x, PyNeurGen and PyBrain. Can you tell
me anything about these modules or point me to where to find more
information?

Greetings,
Gereon
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iEYEARECAAYFAkuGxIUACgkQFWJnZLsO/Wv63gCfRy0WTocj+9u0W/g4RI+UbmXl
1aEAnjkVvVeC4GcuuI2TN1BgCp1sYd2U
=BdbD
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From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Feb 25 13:59:39 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:59:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Walking lists
References: <a047cd80-3893-4a9a-944c-1ff9cab14358@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.222.1267102978.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <369d77c3-99c5-418f-8736-cae6e371088f@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 7:02?am, Tim Chase <python.l... at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
> Python 3 introduced a variable tuple assignment which I
> suspect[*] would work in this context:
>
> ? ?for first, *rest in L: # note the asterisk
> ? ? ?print first
> ? ? ?for x in rest:
> ? ? ? ?do_stuff(x)
>
> [*] not having py3 on this machine, I can't readily verify this.

Seems fine under 3.1. Cool.

>>> L = ((1,2,3),
     (4,),
     (5,),
     (6,7)
     )
>>> for first, *rest in L:
	print('first',first,end=' ')
	print('rest',rest)

first 1 rest [2, 3]
first 4 rest []
first 5 rest []
first 6 rest [7]


From brixomatic at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 25 14:08:43 2010
From: brixomatic at yahoo.com (Wanja Gayk)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:08:43 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <op.u8o54ta9y5e8ok@laptopwanja>

Am 25.02.2010, 02:05 Uhr, schrieb Lawrence D'Oliveiro  
<ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand>:

> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>
>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>
> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things  
> like
>
>     contents = open(filename, "r").read()
>
> and know the file object will be immediately closed after its contents  
> are returned.

Which has nothing to do with reference counting in general.
This is what JVMs can do aswell.
Just have a look at the behaviour of Weak- and SoftReferences to get an  
idea what goes on behind the scenes.
For example:
int x = new Point(10,20).getX();
The point object will be collectable as soon as getX() returned - even  
better: todays JIT compilers will inline the call and not even allocate  
the object, if it's allocation is free of side effects.
What you write above is something entirely different: it's just a  
mechanism to release file handles, syntactic sugar for what you have in  
java when you close a stream in a finally-block.

If you like to know a litle more about reference counting, feel free to  
study the following paper on a very sophistcated reference counting GC for  
the JVM by Levanoni and Petrank:
http://reference.kfupm.edu.sa/content/e/o/e___an_on_the_fly_reference_counting_gar_61636.pdf
The paper talks about some ofthe problems that occur with reference  
counting.
Their algorithm uses some nice techniques to avoid thread contention (the  
reference-counter updates must be atomic, thus require that all "mutators"  
are stopped) and other problems connected to "referece counting" in  
general, such as slow writes (-> cache coherence, etc. read-only access is  
faster).
What the paper doesn't tell is how they deal with fragmented heap, so I  
wouldn't trust that this Refcount-GC will have a stable performance over a  
long period of time (we're talking apps like Ebay, which run 24/7 for  
months if not years).
Their algorithm may have a "comparable" speed to the (meanwhile) old  
implementation the JVM's GC, but it still needs the original JVM clean up  
what it leaves behind(it forgets some references) - maybe that's also how  
they deal with a fragmeted heap, as java uses a compacting collector.
So, yes, it can be fast, or let's say responsive, but in general it's not.  
And when it is up to speed you get stability issues at least I have not  
heard anything different yet.

To have some numbers:
Benchmark Original RC
Total 2582.2 2676.0
compress 720.8 723.3
db 374.0 383.7
jack 264.6 299.7
javac 225.0 235.2
jess 181.7 209.7
mpegaudio 607.1 610.6

As you see: SUN's GC is faster. Even though: what those folks have done is  
impressive (but buggy).

> It also means I don?t have to predefine how much memory my program will  
> use.

Which again has nothing to do with GC. This has been a design decision.
In fact todays JVM dynamically allocate memory and gro their heaps.
A quick look at the command line options will make that clear:
java -X
  [...]
    -Xms<size>        set initial Java heap size
    -Xmx<size>        set maximum Java heap size

Todays GC run as folows, they initialize the heap size at what you giove  
them in your Xmx-Setting (or use the default).
When the heap is filled up to that initial size, they do a full GC and if  
that won't free enough memory, they will allocate some more.
This is done until the upper limit from -Xmx is hit, when the program  
requires more than that, it will fail with an OutOfMemoryError.
As you can imagine those limits may influence the GC, but they are no  
requirement for a GC.
Those limits exists for the security of the host system (which may not be  
a system that allows setting own itself, like Unix/Linux).

> A garbage collector will only kick in when the app runs low on memory.

Wrong. Please inform yourself. Current generational GCs have minor and  
major collections. The JLS only requires that before the program runs out  
of memory the garbage has to be collected, which does not mean it cannot  
do that earlier. In fact you may also request a full GC by calling  
"System.gc()" when you know there's time for it. But it's not recommended  
in general. With JDK 7 we will get a new "Garbage First" Collector, which  
works differently than the ones we have today. It will promise lower  
response times and a more predictable behaviour with about the same speed.  
Starting with Java6 update 14 you may try that one (if you like, I can  
give ou the command line switch to activate it). Basically it is also a  
copying collector and in some way it's also generational, but it's  
"promotion" strategy is different.
Anyway, it also won't only clean up when memory is low, but when it  
detects that there is a segment which is hardly live.

> On a
> system with dynamic memory allocation, that will not happen until the  
> entire
> system runs low on memory, unless you limit the app to some fixed amount.
> Which is an antiquated way of doing things.

Which is wrong, see above.
Today eve the C++ folks start using Garbage Collectors, because  
allocating/deallocating space using free-lists has proven to be slower  
than copying live objects.

> And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to  
> assumptions that programs will obey locality of reference.

Well, and what's the point? Stack allocation is just not necessary in a  
copy-colllector, bevause such a collector knows no deallocation (it just  
saves the survovors), so there is no gain from stack allocation. Stack  
allocation is faster in traditional C++ programs (without GCs), because  
the free-lists have to be managed.
Todays HotSpot-Compilers take memory-locality into account aswell, just  
read some papers about it, have a look at "escape analysis" for example.

Some further reading:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp09275.html
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-jtp04223.html

> Pointer-chasing is a cache- hostile activity. Garbage collection  
> involves a lot of pointer-chasing,
> particularly of dead objects that have long since been flushed from the
> cache, compared with reference counting of recently-accessed objects.
> Therefore garbage collection loses performance.

You haven't read my previous posts, have you?
Dead objects are not considered by today's Garbage collectors.
Those trace only "reachable" objects and copy those. They won't even look  
at "dead" objects.
Since most objects die young, this is where you gain a lot of performance.

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-jtp01274.html

Reference counters, on the other hand, must detect when the reference  
count falls to zero. So they must look at each object, no matter if they  
are about to die, just to find out if they will die.

Regards
-Wanja-

-- 
Erstellt mit Operas revolution?rem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news at netfront.net ---


From roy at panix.com  Thu Feb 25 14:21:51 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:21:51 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-71BEF5.14215125022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list at python.org>,
 "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" <darcy at druid.net> wrote:

> The problem had to do with the way TCP/IP works, especially closer to
> the core.  Our provider was collecting data and sending it only after
> filling a buffer or after a timeout.  The timeout was short so it
> wouldn't normally be noticed and in most cases (web pages e.g.) the
> connection is opened, data is pushed and the connection is closed so
> the buffer is flushed immediately.  Our patterns were different so we
> were hitting the timeout on every single transaction and there was no
> way we would have been able to keep up.
> 
> Our first crack at fixing this was to simply add garbage to the packet
> we were sending.  Making the packets an order of magnitude bigger sped
> up the proccessing dramatically.  That wasn't a very clean solution
> though so we looked for a better way.

Interesting, the system I'm working with now has a similar problem.  We've 
got a request/ack protocol over TCP which often sends lots of small packets 
and can have all sorts of performance issues because of this.

In fact, we break completely on Solaris-10 with TCP Fusion enabled.  We've 
gone back and forth with Sun on this (they claim what we're doing is 
broken, we claim TCP Fusion is broken).  In the end, we just tell all of 
our Solaris-10 customers to disable TCP Fusion.


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 14:27:01 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:27:01 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca <lucat at despammed.com> wrote:
>> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to young
>> kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an
>> embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
>>
>> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
>> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine identifiers
>> and messages in the language of the kid.
>>
>> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
>>  COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
>> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
>> identifiers to the language of the user.
>>
>> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
>> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.
> 
> It can certainly be done (c.f. ChinesePython -
> http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/english.html),
> but I know of no framework that simplifies the task. Essentially, you
> just have to manually modify Python's parser by swapping out the
> english for the other language (and if you want to mess with the basic
> types' names, their name definitions somewhere else too). There also
> might be encoding issues to deal with.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com

Yes, i am playing with Python source code, i have changed some keywords 
but the compile-process fails when it tries to compile some of python 
libraries which, of course, use english keywords... so i guess this is 
not a very clean/viable solution (without having to rewrite several 
parts of the libraries). A better solution could be to "duplicate" 
keywords adding a translated version but leaving the original version in 
place so that every module keeps working. In few words, if i was going 
to translate the keyword "if" in, say, italian "se", then i would have 
both "if" and also "se" working at the same time, in the same manner.
I think that the best way to do this is to insert a "filter" somewhere 
that converts every "se" keyword into a "if" keyword so that python 
doesn't even see the change.

What i would like to do is add a new keyword (lets call it "copydef" 
like in UCBLogo or whatever) that does this work at runtime by keeping a 
substitution table in RAM. If i could manage to add this new keyword to 
python then it would be easy to write a startup script that translates 
the keywords once python is "up and running" and without breaking 
existing python programs/libraries (unless the new keyword conflicts 
with functions defined inside these programs/libraries).

Thanx,
   Luca


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 14:28:26 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:28:26 +0100
Subject: Pedantic pickling error after reload?
In-Reply-To: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <7uo1aqFitnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 25.02.10 18:08, schrieb Robert:
> After (intended/controlled) reload or similar action on a module/class
> the pickle/cPickle.dump raises errors like
>
> pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle <class 'somemodule.SomeClass'>: it's
> not the same object as somemodule.SomeClass
>
>
> Cause in pickle.py (and cPickle) is a line
> "if klass is not obj:"
>
> Shouldn't it be enough to have "if klass.__name__ != obj.__name__:" there?

No. This would alias classes of same name, but living in different modules.

So at least you need to compare these, too. I'm not sure if there aren't 
even more corner-cases. Python's import-mechanism can sometimes be 
rather foot-shoot-prone.

> => a bug report/feature request?
>
> Classes can change face anyway during pickled state, why should a
> over-pedantic reaction break things here during runtime?
> (So far I'd need to walk the object tree in all facets and save against
> inf loops like pickle himself and re-class things .. )

If anything it's a feature - and I doubt it's really needed. Because 
reloading pickles with intermittend reload-module-operations is to rare 
a case to be really supported IMHO.

Do yourself a favor, write a unit-test that tests the desired behavior 
that makes you alter your code & then reload. This makes the problem go 
away, and you have a more stable development through having more tests :)

Diez


From helps4indian at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 14:42:57 2010
From: helps4indian at gmail.com (coolboy8)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:42:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Best auto insurance company
Message-ID: <9ec65bf7-3b50-4c9a-ba9c-681aa74d922c@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

Find the Best auto insurance company  here please visit
http://autoinsurancerathere.blogspot.com


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Feb 25 14:57:51 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:57:51 +0000
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B86D63F.5090601@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Luca wrote:
> Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca <lucat at despammed.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to 
>>> young
>>> kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an
>>> embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
>>>
>>> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
>>> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine 
>>> identifiers
>>> and messages in the language of the kid.
>>>
>>> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
>>>  COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
>>> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
>>> identifiers to the language of the user.
>>>
>>> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
>>> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.
>>
>> It can certainly be done (c.f. ChinesePython -
>> http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/english.html),
>> but I know of no framework that simplifies the task. Essentially, you
>> just have to manually modify Python's parser by swapping out the
>> english for the other language (and if you want to mess with the basic
>> types' names, their name definitions somewhere else too). There also
>> might be encoding issues to deal with.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> -- 
>> http://blog.rebertia.com
> 
> Yes, i am playing with Python source code, i have changed some keywords 
> but the compile-process fails when it tries to compile some of python 
> libraries which, of course, use english keywords... so i guess this is 
> not a very clean/viable solution (without having to rewrite several 
> parts of the libraries). A better solution could be to "duplicate" 
> keywords adding a translated version but leaving the original version in 
> place so that every module keeps working. In few words, if i was going 
> to translate the keyword "if" in, say, italian "se", then i would have 
> both "if" and also "se" working at the same time, in the same manner.
> I think that the best way to do this is to insert a "filter" somewhere 
> that converts every "se" keyword into a "if" keyword so that python 
> doesn't even see the change.
> 
> What i would like to do is add a new keyword (lets call it "copydef" 
> like in UCBLogo or whatever) that does this work at runtime by keeping a 
> substitution table in RAM. If i could manage to add this new keyword to 
> python then it would be easy to write a startup script that translates 
> the keywords once python is "up and running" and without breaking 
> existing python programs/libraries (unless the new keyword conflicts 
> with functions defined inside these programs/libraries).
> 
Perhaps you could use a different extension, eg ".pyn", so existing
".py" files are handled as-is but ".pyn" files are read through a
translator.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 15:06:11 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:06:11 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 25.02.10 20:27, schrieb Luca:
> Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:26 AM, Luca <lucat at despammed.com> wrote:
>>> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to
>>> young
>>> kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use an
>>> embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
>>>
>>> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
>>> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine
>>> identifiers
>>> and messages in the language of the kid.
>>>
>>> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
>>> COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
>>> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
>>> identifiers to the language of the user.
>>>
>>> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
>>> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.
>>
>> It can certainly be done (c.f. ChinesePython -
>> http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/english.html),
>> but I know of no framework that simplifies the task. Essentially, you
>> just have to manually modify Python's parser by swapping out the
>> english for the other language (and if you want to mess with the basic
>> types' names, their name definitions somewhere else too). There also
>> might be encoding issues to deal with.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --
>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> Yes, i am playing with Python source code, i have changed some keywords
> but the compile-process fails when it tries to compile some of python
> libraries which, of course, use english keywords... so i guess this is
> not a very clean/viable solution (without having to rewrite several
> parts of the libraries). A better solution could be to "duplicate"
> keywords adding a translated version but leaving the original version in
> place so that every module keeps working. In few words, if i was going
> to translate the keyword "if" in, say, italian "se", then i would have
> both "if" and also "se" working at the same time, in the same manner.
> I think that the best way to do this is to insert a "filter" somewhere
> that converts every "se" keyword into a "if" keyword so that python
> doesn't even see the change.
>
> What i would like to do is add a new keyword (lets call it "copydef"
> like in UCBLogo or whatever) that does this work at runtime by keeping a
> substitution table in RAM. If i could manage to add this new keyword to
> python then it would be easy to write a startup script that translates
> the keywords once python is "up and running" and without breaking
> existing python programs/libraries (unless the new keyword conflicts
> with functions defined inside these programs/libraries).

You could use import-hooks for importing your code. There was a 
python-magazine article a while ago that showed how to use that + a 
parser to import seamlessly a DSL.

Using pyparsing to write a python-grammar on the fly that simply 
exchanges the keywords before passing it to the interpreter is also easy.

But to be honest: I doubt it's worth the effort. Really. Teaching people 
how to code, but in something that is *not* the "real" language is of 
little, if any, benefit.

And also I don't think that your concerns are valid in general. Keywords 
are like brandnames or other things - the stand for a concept, and 
people immediatly accept them when they want them.

Much, much, much more important would - if anything - be a 
standard-library, or a wrapper for that, e.g. for turtle-graphics, that 
was written in terms of your desired language.

Diez


From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Thu Feb 25 15:09:12 2010
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:09:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Can I specify regex group to return float or int instead of 
	string?
References: <3111bb7c-d5c1-45c9-9a06-94d61cc95102@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4b86a81d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<d3328870-7a69-4ef6-bbe2-8bad2e9fde2c@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<4b86b16b$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a1b32b38-e241-452e-a00b-22ddc66f918c@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 12:20?pm, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:00:07 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 9:41?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
> > cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:48:44 -0800, Jeremy wrote:
> >> > I have a regular expression that searches for some numbers and puts
> >> > them into a dictionary, i.e.
>
> >> > '(?P<integer>\d+)\s+(?P<float>\d+\.\d+)'
>
> >> > Is it possible to have the results of the matches returned as int or
> >> > float objects instead of strings?
>
> >> No. Just convert the match with int() or float() before storing it in
> >> the dictionary. That is, instead of:
>
> >> d[key] = match
>
> >> use
>
> >> d[key] = float(match)
>
> >> or similar.
>
> > I was afraid that was the only option. ?Oh well, thought I'd ask anyway.
>
> Why "afraid"? What's the problem with calling int or float on the match?
>
> --
> Steven

He must not be Dutch

:-) SCNR


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 15:23:30 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 12:23:30 -0800
Subject: os.pipe() + os.fork()
References: <20100220113604.49b7c242@gurka> <20100220125250.35c9937d@gurka>
	<mailman.2844.1266693245.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<256926de-e175-4fa2-aa24-dbd5f96756ef@u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm6m82$jsq$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <256926de-e175-4fa2-aa24-dbd5f96756ef at u20g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>,
sebastian.noack at googlemail.com <sebastian.noack at googlemail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 20, 8:13=A0pm, Gary Herron <gher... at islandtraining.com> wrote:
>>
>> Here's a thought: =A0Consider the subprocess module. =A0 It can do thefor=
>k
>> and any necessary pipes and can do so in an OS independent way. =A0 It
>> might make you life much easier.
>
>As far as i know the subprocess module provides only functionality for
>running any program as subprocess. But I just want to fork the current
>process without putting some code in an external python script.

Then try multiprocessing
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 15:32:19 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 12:32:19 -0800
Subject: Pure virtual functions in Python?
References: <dc23feb0-e231-49bb-b240-0a5ccb20f16f@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<e48d7b50-ac62-4835-a608-2675189a8fab@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7udu49Fk3uU1@mid.individual.net>
	<38ddd614-583c-430d-b998-214bd6360eb2@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm6moj$duo$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <38ddd614-583c-430d-b998-214bd6360eb2 at b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
lallous  <elias.bachaalany at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 22, 12:42=A0am, Gregory Ewing <greg.ew... at canterbury.ac.nz>
>wrote:
>> lallouswrote:
>>>
>>> If the base defines the method and it was empty, then my C++ code
>>> would still call the function. This is not optimal because I don't
>>> want to go from C++ to Python if the _derived_ class does not
>>> implement the cb.
>>
>> I would simply not implement the method at all in the base
>> class. Then the C++ code can do an attribute lookup for
>> the method, and if it's not found, do nothing.
>
>That is what I currently do. But if I comment out the implementations
>(empty ones) then the documentation generation tool will not document
>the callbacks.

Maybe deleting the method after the class would work.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From johnroth1 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 15:51:00 2010
From: johnroth1 at gmail.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:51:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <c8f734d7-f5a7-4ce1-85ae-63e16485095d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 1:23?pm, Andreas Waldenburger <use... at geekmail.INVALID>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
>
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
> ? ? while not wise(up):
> ? ? ? ? yield scorn
>
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>
> /W
>
> --
> INVALID? DE!

Is the problem that they've got the docstring in the wrong place,
or that the comment isn't saying anything that can't be read in
the method name?

The first is easily fixable with a bit of tutorial about how
a properly placed docstring prints out in various contexts, plus
a quick script to move the suckers.

The second is going to take more work to get the point across
that comments that reproduce what the method name says are waste.

John Roth


From dontsendleospam at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 17:02:31 2010
From: dontsendleospam at gmail.com (dontspamleo)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:02:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi Arnaud et al,

Here is the link to the bug report from which the discussion in PEP
289 was extracted:

http://bugs.python.org/issue872326

It looks like they were fixing a bunch of bugs and that this
discussion was one of the many in that thread.

Here is another post which points to the core of the issue: early/late
binding. It is also pointed to in PEP 289.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-April/044555.html

Here is Guido's rationale (his text is the items (a) and (b) below. My
comments follow.

(a) I find it hard to defend automatic variable capture given Python's
    general late-binding semantics

MY COMMENTS: That is a good point. There are however exceptions to the
"general late-binding semantics" (GLBS) in Python. The outer loop does
bind early in this case in fact. A point to consider along with GLBS
is the unintuitive early bind of the external iterator vs late bind of
the internal iterator. That is a function not of early vs. late
binding, but of the current translation of generator expressions to
generator functions. Using Arnaud's approach would fix that and make
the code IMO so more pythonic.

(b) I believe that use cases needing early binding are uncommon and
    strained: they all involve creating a list of generator
    expressions, which IMO is a pretty unusual thing to do

MY COMMENTS: This is actually a pretty common use case. Any iteration
over objects of arity 2 or greater (A matrix, a table, a tree searched
breadthwise under some data structures, etc.) can conveniently and
cleanly be expressed using a generator expression.

I'd also add that perhaps the title of Guido's post: "Generator
Expressions - Let's Move Forward" may have unintentionally discouraged
people from reexamining the issue.

I would like to see this decision revisited. Obviously before spending
any time on this I'd like to gauge if there is further interest. Am I
off the mark? Maybe there is a technical misunderstanding on my part.
If there are more people affected (Since the last week I found some
other postings here and on other lists and blogs) who can make a clear
case, then what is the next step?

Cheers,
Leo.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 17:28:32 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:28:32 +0100
Subject: compiling python question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.205.1267059329.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.149.1266976820.4577.python-list@python.org>	<4B859F0C.1060308@nospam.web.de>
	<mailman.205.1267059329.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uobshFeqbU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 25.02.10 01:55, schrieb Mag Gam:
> sorry for the vague answer.
>
> Its Linux.
>
> The configure build does not say anything actually. This is for SAGE.
> I managed to have it pick it up by compiling/installing tcl and tk and
> then recompile python

Then most probably installing the tk-dev packages would have been 
sufficient.

diez


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 18:08:26 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:08:26 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net> <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> You could use import-hooks for importing your code. There was a 
> python-magazine article a while ago that showed how to use that + a 
> parser to import seamlessly a DSL.

I will look into this, right now i don't know what import-hooks are nor 
if i can use them from embedded python.

> Using pyparsing to write a python-grammar on the fly that simply 
> exchanges the keywords before passing it to the interpreter is also easy.

This could be an easy solution yes... unfortunately this makes other 
problems arise... for instance... if i have an IDE that shows the 
translated language and i want to debug it step by step... would it be 
easy for me to map the english version (the one that python sees) with 
the translated version? I still have to look at this and how to run the 
debugger from the application that is "hosting" python so for now the 
answer is "i don't know".

Right now, by simply changing the file Python-3.1.1/Grammar/Grammar i 
could obtain this (with "if" translated in "se"):

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74480, Feb 25 2010, 22:44:50)
[GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> Vero = True
 >>> stampa = print
 >>>
 >>> se Vero:
...   stampa("Ciao")
...
Ciao
 >>>

Which seems to work, but requires to manually change the source code and 
it is way too complex for someone that has zero knowledge about the 
internals of python (like myself). Besides... it is a very ugly hack IMO.

> But to be honest: I doubt it's worth the effort. Really. Teaching people 
> how to code, but in something that is *not* the "real" language is of 
> little, if any, benefit.
> 
> And also I don't think that your concerns are valid in general. Keywords 
> are like brandnames or other things - the stand for a concept, and 
> people immediatly accept them when they want them.

Maybe you are right, but being italian myself i can remember when i was 
a middle schooler (no computer before that) and the hours spent on my 
MSX figuring out how the thing worked. I learned all the commands as 
"brandnames" without really understanding them. I had _no_ idea that 
"if" meant... if, or that "print" meant to print. I had zero knowledge 
of english and for this reason most of these commands were meaningless 
to me, i didn't even suspect they had a meaning in an existing language, 
i just thought that was the way computers talked. When several years 
later, in High School, i learned English it was a real surprise for me 
to find out that the commands i had learned by heart as "magical words" 
actually had a precise meaning in "human language" and i think this 
would have helped me to figure out several things that instead took 
hours or days to understand.
Now kids have internet, they study english from the kindergarten, they 
have a huge quantity of manuals and books freely available, so maybe you 
are right and i am just over-worrying. But still, i think it would be 
nice to use a language familiar to the kid (especially very young ones), 
it would make the learning process faster (no need to learn new words) 
and it would make the computer feel almost like a virtual "friend".

> Much, much, much more important would - if anything - be a 
> standard-library, or a wrapper for that, e.g. for turtle-graphics, that 
> was written in terms of your desired language.

I already made some tests with turtle-graphics and it seems to work. My 
next problem was to translate the language.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3093/zzz5.png

[Btw... i took too much time to write this post so the ladybug fell 
asleep...]

Thanx,
   Luca


From news123 at free.fr  Thu Feb 25 18:09:39 2010
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:09:39 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4b870333$0$15434$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hi Luca,

Luca wrote:
> Hello, i am trying to develop an application to teach programming to
> young kids in a similar way as Logo did in the past. I would like to use
> an embedded Python as underlying language but this raises a problem.
> 
> The target of my app are very young kids that might be unfamiliar with
> english, so i am wondering if there is a way to rename/redefine
> identifiers and messages in the language of the kid.
> 
> In UCB-Logo this is very easy with the command
>   COPYDEF "newidentifier "oldidentifier
> so all you have to do is setup a startup script to redefine all the
> identifiers to the language of the user.
> 
> Is there anything similar for python? Since python would be embedded it
> would not be a problem for me to do it through some API.
> 
a pragmatic approach might be to preprocess the source code
and keep the original version as comments above the translated line.
(for debugging)

or to preprecess the input line before the 'exec'.

It might be, that kids are flexible enough to use English words without
understanding them.

My younger brother could write Pascal before he learnt any English and
he never cared, what 'if' 'then' 'else' 'for', etc. meant.

It might be useful though to internationalize the python errror messages
if that's not something already done.


bye


N






From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 18:41:57 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:41:57 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <mailman.254.1267127876.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.254.1267127876.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uog65F5vuU1@mid.individual.net>

MRAB wrote:
> Perhaps you could use a different extension, eg ".pyn", so existing
> ".py" files are handled as-is but ".pyn" files are read through a
> translator.

This could be a good idea... especially since i could make my own 
extension since we are talking of a special-purpose application that 
only incorporates python as a library.

Thanx,
   Luca


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 19:05:49 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:05:49 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net> <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7uohitFbm4U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

>> And also I don't think that your concerns are valid in general.
>> Keywords are like brandnames or other things - the stand for a
>> concept, and people immediatly accept them when they want them.
>
> Maybe you are right, but being italian myself i can remember when i was
> a middle schooler (no computer before that) and the hours spent on my
> MSX figuring out how the thing worked. I learned all the commands as
> "brandnames" without really understanding them. I had _no_ idea that
> "if" meant... if, or that "print" meant to print. I had zero knowledge
> of english and for this reason most of these commands were meaningless
> to me, i didn't even suspect they had a meaning in an existing language,
> i just thought that was the way computers talked. When several years
> later, in High School, i learned English it was a real surprise for me
> to find out that the commands i had learned by heart as "magical words"
> actually had a precise meaning in "human language" and i think this
> would have helped me to figure out several things that instead took
> hours or days to understand.
> Now kids have internet, they study english from the kindergarten, they
> have a huge quantity of manuals and books freely available, so maybe you
> are right and i am just over-worrying. But still, i think it would be
> nice to use a language familiar to the kid (especially very young ones),
> it would make the learning process faster (no need to learn new words)
> and it would make the computer feel almost like a virtual "friend".

I can't argue this from a technical point of view. Nor from a personal, 
as when I was first exposed to programming, I already new a few bits & 
pieces of english (leaving highschool with an E grade though....)

However, I'm pretty sure what held me back most was the lack of 
(affordable, tuned to the younger audience) course material, and 
exchange with peers. Both which has *massively* changed with the 
internet available even in rather rural aereas of the world.

Now under the assumption that you are right here, if keywords are what 
children keeps from learning programming - then your approach stops much 
to early. I already mentioned the standard-library, but of course much 
more important are the builtins. What's an int? Hell, I've been using 
the term integer for decades now, but actually don't really know if it 
really stands for "ganzzahl", the german word for what it is.

And once they learned the language from whatever course material you 
prepared for them, they'd take a look outside - and find *nothing*. No 
code snippet to re-use without error-prone rewriting. Lack of 
understanding because of unfamiliar words. And so on.

All this with a rather high cost on your side to prepare & and maintain 
a programming environment based upon a patched, potentially buggy 
interpreter + assorted course material.

I really think you should instead focus on creating an environtment 
similar to what squeak offers, something integrated with easy access to 
graphics and sounds, that create amazement in the children and makes 
them want to code to realize their dreams. And of course natively named 
libraries, plus course-material. I didn't measure it, but by 
guesstimation, the ratio between keywords & other literals in python 
should be around the range of 1/10.

Finally - well, if I'd were to learn italian, I'd rather not have my 
teacher translate all the nice italian words to german in my textbook... 
;) It *is*, after all, learning a language we are talking here. It is 
alien. Even python :)

Diez


From lucat at despammed.com  Thu Feb 25 19:06:10 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:06:10 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <4b870333$0$15434$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<4b870333$0$15434$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <7uohjjFcvqU1@mid.individual.net>

News123 wrote:
> a pragmatic approach might be to preprocess the source code
> and keep the original version as comments above the translated line.
> (for debugging)

Not very nice to see though. This change should be transparent to the 
kid, he/she should not be aware of this "translation".

> or to preprecess the input line before the 'exec'.

This could be a solution, yes, but then i would also need to figure out 
a way to show the original line when debugging (still, i know nothing 
about pdb, maybe it is possible in a easy way).

> It might be, that kids are flexible enough to use English words without
> understanding them.
> 
> My younger brother could write Pascal before he learnt any English and
> he never cared, what 'if' 'then' 'else' 'for', etc. meant.

I had a similar experience. When i was a middle schooler i knew nothing 
about English and so i learned Basic and then Pascal without actually 
knowing that those words had a meaning at all. For me they were just 
kind of "magical words" that i could use to tell the computer what to 
do. So i know for sure that this is possible. But... imagine the use of 
this language in a elementary school. Some kids, like me or you or your 
brother would be interested enough to find it easy to learn the new 
words. For others it would only be a pain. Another lesson among others 
that to them makes no sense at all. If we could make it easier for them 
to understand the words used in the language the teacher would have an 
easier time to explain some concepts and maybe even these kids could 
have fun and begin to love it.

I understand that this "breaks" the language, that it would be better if 
they would just learn the "original" language... but most teachers would 
ask "then why not use Logo instead? it is already in our language..."

I have nothing against logo of course, i have learned it myself even 
before Pascal and i had lots of fun with it. But python is much more 
widespread than logo and i think in some ways it makes "more sense" than 
logo and it is not much harder. The only problem that i see is that Logo 
does have its commands translated while python doesn't nor, it seems, 
there is an easy way to add this functionality.

> It might be useful though to internationalize the python errror messages
> if that's not something already done.

Yes, this would be very important... but still, it should be easy for 
the teacher to translate the messages to make them more understandable 
to the kids.

For instance...

* Python:
 >>> draw
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
NameError: name 'draw' is not defined

* Logo:
? draw
I don't know how  to draw

Logo's message, while maybe too simple for a professional developer, is 
certainly much more easy for a kid. So you see, it is not just a matter 
of internationalization... it is also a matter of users-target. If i am 
talking to a young kid i should use words and concepts that are easy for 
him/her to understand... so, for my target, it would be very important 
not only a correct translation in my language, but also the use of words 
and concepts that are familiar to a kid.

Thanx,
   Luca


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 19:08:50 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:08:50 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net> <7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7uohoiFbm4U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

On a related note, did you investigate SUGAR of the OLPC? I'd say these 
guys certainly tried to create something that appealed to children, and 
AFAIK it comes with a Python interpreter. I'm don't know anything about 
that, nor if it comes with learning material. Might be worth checking out.

Diez


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 19:10:57 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 16:10:57 -0800
Subject: Compiling and running 32-bit Python on 64-bit server?
References: <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b@q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm73ih$rpj$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <d5f0a586-6548-4f25-92ab-e723b6313b2b at q29g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Mikko Ohtamaa  <mikko at redinnovation.com> wrote:
>
>How one could create 32-bit Python run-time enviroment, preferable
>virtualenv, on 64-bit Linux (VPS), reducing memory usage? This
>environment could actually beat 64-bit in performance, due to better
>memory cache use.
>
>I assume this involves having lib32 libs and compiling Python with
>some magical switches.

The simplest approach would probably be to do the compilation on a 32-bit
system and just install it on 64-bit.  There are some magic flags, yes;
you'll need to Google using e.g. "linux force 32-bit compile".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From cg at graysage.com  Thu Feb 25 19:11:32 2010
From: cg at graysage.com (Chris Gray)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 17:11:32 -0700
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:

> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
> 
> > Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
> 
> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things like

I'm by no means an expert, but how does reference counting deal with
arbitrary long cycles of references (btw I've *written* a simple
reference counter for a programming language)?

When I asked someone whose knowlege of Java I trust, he said that modern
Java's do both reference counting and garbage collection. That was 2 or 3
years ago. I would have guessed that Python was the same.

-- 
Experience should guide us, not rule us.

Chris Gray


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Feb 25 19:12:00 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:12:00 +0100
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uohugFedhU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> That better way turned out to asynchronous update transactions.  All we
> did was keep feeding updates to the remote site and forget about ACKS.
> We then had a second process which handled ACKS and tracked which
> packets had been properly transferred.  The system had IDs on each
> update and retries happened if ACKS didn't happen soon enough.
> Naturally we ignored ACKS that we had already processed.

sounds like using UDP to me, of course with a protocol on top (namely 
the one you implemented).

Any reason you sticked to TCP instead?

Diez


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 19:29:13 2010
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:29:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <b8df8afb-70ff-4a4c-ab8a-f4acdb9d5f86@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 7:00?am, fat bold cyclop <fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com> wrote:
> why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?

It's simple, Everything must have a value!


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Feb 25 19:34:35 2010
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:34:35 -0800
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
	<7uo3hkFvvuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <7uoe7bFsdsU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B87171B.7030708@stoneleaf.us>

Luca wrote:

[snippety]

> Maybe you are right, but being italian myself i can remember when i was 
> a middle schooler (no computer before that) and the hours spent on my 
> MSX figuring out how the thing worked. I learned all the commands as 
> "brandnames" without really understanding them. I had _no_ idea that 
> "if" meant... if, or that "print" meant to print. I had zero knowledge 
> of english and for this reason most of these commands were meaningless 
> to me, i didn't even suspect they had a meaning in an existing language, 
> i just thought that was the way computers talked.

[more snippety]

Perhaps the lesson to learn from this is that as *you* teach programming 
to non-english speakers you take the time to say "'if' means 'se', 
'print' means 'stampa'", etc.  I suspect your early years would have 
been much easier with those bits of knowledge.  :)

~Ethan~


From alfps at start.no  Thu Feb 25 19:41:29 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:41:29 +0100
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
Message-ID: <hm75br$vo$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Chris Gray:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
> 
>> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>>
>>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
>> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things like
> 
> I'm by no means an expert, but how does reference counting deal with
> arbitrary long cycles of references (btw I've *written* a simple
> reference counter for a programming language)?

Generally it doesn't. Some solutions have however been proposed for 
std::shared_ptr in C++. None have made it to any noteworthy status, but they 
demonstrate that there are more or less practical solutions for the most common 
cases.

Currently the upshot is that if you need the kind of self-referential spaghetti 
structure (no offense) created by mathematical expressions that refer to each 
other, then you've passed beyond what can be handled practically by reference 
counting alone or even in combination with cycle handling techniques.

For that you're better off with some functional language, or Python... ;-)


> When I asked someone whose knowlege of Java I trust, he said that modern
> Java's do both reference counting and garbage collection. That was 2 or 3
> years ago. I would have guessed that Python was the same.

Yes, Python adds general garbage collection to deal with cycles.

Essentially the reference counting deals efficiently and immediately with 
objects created by expression evaluation, while the general garbage collection 
deals with cyclic structures.

But there's no magic: in particular in Java, Python and like languages you must 
still remember to remove references installed in singletons and globals (e.g. 
for event notifications), otherwise objects will still be referenced and thus 
not garbage collected, causing a memory leak.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 19:42:35 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:42:35 -0600
Subject: why (1, 2, 3) > [1, 2, 3] is true?
In-Reply-To: <b8df8afb-70ff-4a4c-ab8a-f4acdb9d5f86@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <97dbfd50-416b-4fbe-82b8-549d405b35c6@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<b8df8afb-70ff-4a4c-ab8a-f4acdb9d5f86@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm75ds$o99$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-25 18:29 PM, r wrote:
> On Feb 25, 7:00 am, fat bold cyclop<fat.bold.cyc... at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> why (1, 2, 3)>  [1, 2, 3] is true?
>
> It's simple, Everything must have a value!

That is not at all an explanation, much less a true one. Please read the other 
posts in this thread; they have explained the situation rather well.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Feb 25 19:51:01 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Feb 2010 16:51:01 -0800
Subject: How would I do a continuous write over a pipe in the following 
	code...
References: <9d0f6456-97c7-4bde-8e07-9576b02f91f9@t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm75tl$h1k$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <9d0f6456-97c7-4bde-8e07-9576b02f91f9 at t31g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
chad  <cdalten at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>import subprocess as s
>
>broadcast = s.Popen("echo test | wall", shell=True,stdout=s.PIPE)
>
>out = broadcast.stdout
>while 1:
>    out
>    broadcast.wait()
>
>broadcast.stdout.close()
>
>
>The code only executes once. What I want to do is be able to
>continuously write over the pipe once it is open. I could put
>s.Popen() inside the while loop, but that seems a bit too messy. So is
>there some way to just open the pipe once, and once it is open, just
>continuously write over it vs just opening and closing the pipe every
>time?

You really should do this instead, untested:

broadcast = s.Popen(['wall'], stdin=s.PIPE)
while 1:
    broadcast.write('test\n')
    time.sleep(1)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 19:58:07 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 00:58:07 GMT
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
Message-ID: <4b871c9e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:11:32 -0700, Chris Gray wrote:

> I'm by no means an expert, but how does reference counting deal with
> arbitrary long cycles of references (btw I've *written* a simple
> reference counter for a programming language)?

It doesn't, or at least the CPython one doesn't.

In CPython, even a short reference cycle defeats it, which is why CPython 
also uses a second garbage collector. If we turn that off, we can see how 
even a one-element cycle defeats reference counting:

>>> import gc
>>> gc.disable()
>>>
>>> class K:
...     def __del__(self):
...             print "Bye now"
...
>>> k = K()
>>> del k  # Test it works as expected.
Bye now
>>> 
>>> k = K()  # Now try with a cycle.
>>> k.attr = k
>>> del k
>>>
>>>

Normally, you would clear the ref cycle this way:

>>> gc.collect()
2

But in this case it doesn't work because the object in the cycle has a 
__del__ method, and Python can't predict a safe order to run the __del__ 
method. (I'm surprised that this is an issue with a single object, but 
what do I know?) So we have to inspect the list of garbage, manually 
break the cycle, clear new references we've created, and then it will be 
garbage collected:

>>> gc.garbage[0].attr = None  # Break the cycle
>>> del gc.garbage[:]
Bye now

This is one reason why __del__ methods are not recommended.


 
> When I asked someone whose knowlege of Java I trust, he said that modern
> Java's do both reference counting and garbage collection. That was 2 or
> 3 years ago. I would have guessed that Python was the same.

CPython has both now. Jython uses whatever the Java implementation uses, 
and IronPython uses .Net's memory management scheme. Other Pythons do 
whatever they like :)


Some interesting information here:

http://www.digi.com/wiki/developer/index.php/Python_Garbage_Collection



-- 
Steven


From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Feb 25 20:00:32 2010
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com> 
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja> <hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> 
	<87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
	<hm75br$vo$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <cda549a4-6377-4ff5-a1a8-8cb06fc35fbb@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 25, 6:41?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * Chris Gray:
>
> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l... at geek-central.gen.new_zealand> writes:
>
> >> In message <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok at laptopwanja>, Wanja Gayk wrote:
>
> >>> Reference counting is about the worst technique for garbage collection.
> >> It avoids the need for garbage collection. It means I can write things like
>
> > I'm by no means an expert, but how does reference counting deal with
> > arbitrary long cycles of references (btw I've *written* a simple
> > reference counter for a programming language)?
>
> Generally it doesn't. Some solutions have however been proposed for
> std::shared_ptr in C++. None have made it to any noteworthy status, but they
> demonstrate that there are more or less practical solutions for the most common
> cases.
>
> Currently the upshot is that if you need the kind of self-referential spaghetti
> structure (no offense) created by mathematical expressions that refer to each
> other, then you've passed beyond what can be handled practically by reference
> counting alone or even in combination with cycle handling techniques.
>
> For that you're better off with some functional language, or Python... ;-)
>
> > When I asked someone whose knowlege of Java I trust, he said that modern
> > Java's do both reference counting and garbage collection. That was 2 or 3
> > years ago. I would have guessed that Python was the same.
>
> Yes, Python adds general garbage collection to deal with cycles.
>
> Essentially the reference counting deals efficiently and immediately with
> objects created by expression evaluation, while the general garbage collection
> deals with cyclic structures.
>
> But there's no magic: in particular in Java, Python and like languages you must
> still remember to remove references installed in singletons and globals (e.g.
> for event notifications), otherwise objects will still be referenced and thus
> not garbage collected, causing a memory leak.

Is that really considered a leak, a single instance
of an uncollected global as opposed to a function
that is called millions of times, and each time
it's called creates uncollected temporary variables?

>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Feb 25 20:06:18 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 01:06:18 GMT
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <87mxyw500b.fsf@ami-cg.GraySage.com>
	<hm75br$vo$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<cda549a4-6377-4ff5-a1a8-8cb06fc35fbb@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b871e8a$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:00:32 -0800, Mensanator wrote:

> Is that really considered a leak, a single instance of an uncollected
> global as opposed to a function that is called millions of times, and
> each time it's called creates uncollected temporary variables?

I think it's generally called "garbage". When the amount of garbage 
grows, or *could* grow, it is called a leak. But nobody is going to slap 
you for calling a single instance of an uncollectable object a leak.


-- 
Steven


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Thu Feb 25 21:14:06 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:14:06 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.208.1267067418.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm7ape$21n$1@speranza.aioe.org>

MRAB wrote:

> You could try Dependency Walker: http://dependencywalker.com/
> 

I have (belatedly) read the py2exe tutorial:
http://www.py2exe.org/index.cgi/Tutorial#Step522
and learned about the msvcr90.dll issue.  I haven't finished sorting this out 
yet, but I did find that running vcredist_x86.exe (the right version!) on box 1 
fixed things there.  I also tried (naively) manually adding 
dist\Microsoft.VC90.CRT with the manifest file and msvcr90.dll, but this doesn't 
seem to work - it seems that p2exe must do the file copying.


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Feb 25 23:01:26 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:01:26 -0500
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <7uohugFedhU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uohugFedhU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20100225230126.419f8c53.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:12:00 +0100
"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> > That better way turned out to asynchronous update transactions.  All we
> > did was keep feeding updates to the remote site and forget about ACKS.
> > We then had a second process which handled ACKS and tracked which
> > packets had been properly transferred.  The system had IDs on each
> > update and retries happened if ACKS didn't happen soon enough.
> > Naturally we ignored ACKS that we had already processed.
> 
> sounds like using UDP to me, of course with a protocol on top (namely 
> the one you implemented).
> 
> Any reason you sticked to TCP instead?

TCP does a great job of delivering a stream of data in order and
handling the retries.  The app really was connection oriented and we
saw no reason to emulate that over an unconnected protocol.  There were
other wheels to reinvent that were more important.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From darnzen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 23:54:41 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:54:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
Message-ID: <814d3f0f-9530-44f3-a533-087540bdcd81@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
solution (seems like a bit of a hack).

First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It will make more sense
after I diagram it:

#Module main.py

class App:
    def sperg(self):
         pass

app = App()
[main loop and such]
 -----------------------------
# Module A.py
import main
class Foo:
     @staticmethod
     chum(nType, nPtr):
               # Need to access function / data in app instance
               app.sperg(nType, nPtr)



From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 00:07:55 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:07:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
Message-ID: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
solution (seems like a bit of a hack).

First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:

#Module main.py
from A import *

class App:
    def sperg(self):
         self.a = A()

app = App()
[main loop and such]
 -----------------------------
# Module A.py
import main
class Foo:
      Selves=[]
     def __init__(self):
               Foo.Selves.append(self)
     @staticmethod
     def chum_callback(nType, nP):
               # Need to access function / data in app instance
               app.sperg(nP)
               # Need to access func data in Foo
               # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
               self = Foo.getSelf(nP)

     def getSelf(nP):
               return self.Selves[nP]

---------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
get at them from the staticmethod.
What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
the A.py module.

How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
with the class instance in the constructor)?
Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?

Sorry for the double / partial post :(


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 02:12:48 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 07:12:48 GMT
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b877470$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:07:55 -0800, darnzen wrote:

> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
> 
> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks, but
> because of this, I'm losing instance info.
[...]
> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along with
> the class instance in the constructor)? Is there another way to do this
> that's not such a hack?

Pass the instance explicitly:

>>> class K(object):
...     @staticmethod
...     def static(self, x, y):
...         print self, x, y
...
>>> k = K()
>>> k.static(k, 1, 2)
<__main__.K object at 0xb7c2544c> 1 2


-- 
Steven


From gaoxtwarrior at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 02:17:23 2010
From: gaoxtwarrior at gmail.com (Gao)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:17:23 +0800
Subject: Hi, I know it's stupid, but does your foreigner do a lot of OT work?
Message-ID: <hm7si3$oaj$1@www.shinco.com>

I'm Chinese, I'm working in a famous vendor company which let employee 
do a lot of OT work, 2 more hours per day, and sometime work in weekend. 
Is that the same in USA and European?


From kalakal.anjali at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 02:30:11 2010
From: kalakal.anjali at gmail.com (HOT GIRLS HOT Night)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:30:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: %%% Funny College Girls Nude Video HERE %%%
Message-ID: <00f35ca7-f3d6-439e-863c-31e121b528ad@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

%%% Funny College Girls Nude Video HERE %%%

http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/
http://sites.google.com/site/hifiprofile/


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 26 02:40:54 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:40:54 +0000
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>

dontspamleo <dontsendleospam at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Arnaud et al,
>
> Here is the link to the bug report from which the discussion in PEP
> 289 was extracted:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue872326
>
> It looks like they were fixing a bunch of bugs and that this
> discussion was one of the many in that thread.
>
> Here is another post which points to the core of the issue: early/late
> binding. It is also pointed to in PEP 289.
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-April/044555.html

Thanks for digging those out!

> Here is Guido's rationale (his text is the items (a) and (b) below. My
> comments follow.
>
> (a) I find it hard to defend automatic variable capture given Python's
>     general late-binding semantics
>
> MY COMMENTS: That is a good point. There are however exceptions to the
> "general late-binding semantics" (GLBS) in Python. The outer loop does
> bind early in this case in fact. A point to consider along with GLBS
> is the unintuitive early bind of the external iterator vs late bind of
> the internal iterator. That is a function not of early vs. late
> binding, but of the current translation of generator expressions to
> generator functions. Using Arnaud's approach would fix that and make
> the code IMO so more pythonic.

But see this message from Guido:

http://bugs.python.org/issue872326#msg45190

It looks like he's thinking of early binding of free variables.  Later
on he seems to contradict this.

Below it is mentioned that two patches were made, one with the current
behaviour and one with the one you (and I) would prefer.

> (b) I believe that use cases needing early binding are uncommon and
>     strained: they all involve creating a list of generator
>     expressions, which IMO is a pretty unusual thing to do
>
> MY COMMENTS: This is actually a pretty common use case. Any iteration
> over objects of arity 2 or greater (A matrix, a table, a tree searched
> breadthwise under some data structures, etc.) can conveniently and
> cleanly be expressed using a generator expression.

And also your example when defining a generator expression in a class
scope becomes confusing with the current semantics.

> I'd also add that perhaps the title of Guido's post: "Generator
> Expressions - Let's Move Forward" may have unintentionally discouraged
> people from reexamining the issue.
>
> I would like to see this decision revisited. Obviously before spending
> any time on this I'd like to gauge if there is further interest. Am I
> off the mark? Maybe there is a technical misunderstanding on my part.
> If there are more people affected (Since the last week I found some
> other postings here and on other lists and blogs) who can make a clear
> case, then what is the next step?

I suppose it would be interesting to see how this can be implemented,
maybe look at the gexp.diff.capture file on the bug tracker.  I was
intending to look into it a couple of years ago but I could never find
the time :(

-- 
Arnaud


From baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 03:28:04 2010
From: baptiste.lepilleur at gmail.com (Baptiste Lepilleur)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:28:04 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
Message-ID: <d14bb4711002260028s498290a2l2616139f5d763d6b@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/24 Lars Gust?bel <lars at gustaebel.de>

> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
> > I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
> > TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
> > search while they have a doc string:
> >
> > http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=gzopen
> >
> http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html?highlight=tarfile#tarfile.TarFile
> >
> > See script at the end for list of class methods.
> >
> > Is this "by design" or is there some an odd bug in doc generation lurking
> > around? This somehow seem to be specific to module tarfile. Fraction
> > classmethod from_float() is available in the documentation and found by a
> > search for example...
>
> First of all, Python's module documentation is not generated from module
> docstrings, each module has its own rst text file in the documentation tree
> instead.
>

I was ignorant of that fact. Thanks for letting me know.


> But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class
> has
> three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a specific
> compression method. These three are used internally by the TarFile.open()
> classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The TarFile.open()
> method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed to be used. It
> decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode argument and
> does many more other high-level things as well.
>

I think it would be best to annotate the help string to let people know of
the facts it is not intended for public usage (or restriction that apply,
e.g. only for subclassing as you hinted in another post).

If I find a method using dir/doc string, I don't check the public
documentation to see if it is present. And even if I did, now that I know
that documentation is maintained separately from the code base, I would
rather assumes a documentation bug than this being by design as is the case
here.

Notes: googling around, there is already a few uses of TarFile.gzopen(). My
guess would be that people find it more convenient for passing compression
level.

Anyway, thanks for writing this module, it very easy to use!

Baptiste.
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From peloko45 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 03:55:49 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 00:55:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get dosctring without import
Message-ID: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
*__doc__*.

Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
get the docstring without import a package


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 04:06:17 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:06:17 +0100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
In-Reply-To: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uph89FrdiU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 09:55, schrieb Joan Miller:
> When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> *__doc__*.
>
> Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> get the docstring without import a package

You'd need to write your own parser for that. All standard tools simply 
import, see another thread a few days ago where a user had problems with 
help on modules.

Also, without importing, you'd not get docstrings of C-extension-objects.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 04:15:47 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:15:47 +0100
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> #Module main.py
> from A import *
>
> class App:
>      def sperg(self):
>           self.a = A()
>
> app = App()
> [main loop and such]
>   -----------------------------
> # Module A.py
> import main
> class Foo:
>        Selves=[]
>       def __init__(self):
>                 Foo.Selves.append(self)
>       @staticmethod
>       def chum_callback(nType, nP):
>                 # Need to access function / data in app instance
>                 app.sperg(nP)
>                 # Need to access func data in Foo
>                 # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
>                 self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
>       def getSelf(nP):
>                 return self.Selves[nP]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> get at them from the staticmethod.
> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
> the A.py module.
>
> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> with the class instance in the constructor)?
> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> Sorry for the double / partial post :(

Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL 
utilized by ctypes?

I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give 
you your self, instead relying on global state.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 04:19:15 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:19:15 +0100
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.257.1267156817.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.233.1267106234.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm650q$esk$1@news.eternal-september.org>	<mailman.244.1267114628.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uohugFedhU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<mailman.257.1267156817.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7upi0jFuapU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 05:01, schrieb D'Arcy J.M. Cain:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:12:00 +0100
> "Diez B. Roggisch"<deets at nospam.web.de>  wrote:
>>> That better way turned out to asynchronous update transactions.  All we
>>> did was keep feeding updates to the remote site and forget about ACKS.
>>> We then had a second process which handled ACKS and tracked which
>>> packets had been properly transferred.  The system had IDs on each
>>> update and retries happened if ACKS didn't happen soon enough.
>>> Naturally we ignored ACKS that we had already processed.
>>
>> sounds like using UDP to me, of course with a protocol on top (namely
>> the one you implemented).
>>
>> Any reason you sticked to TCP instead?
>
> TCP does a great job of delivering a stream of data in order and
> handling the retries.  The app really was connection oriented and we
> saw no reason to emulate that over an unconnected protocol.  There were
> other wheels to reinvent that were more important.

So when you talk about ACKs, you don't mean these on the TCP-level 
(darn, whatever iso-level that is...), but on some higher level?

Diez


From massimodipierro71 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 04:32:30 2010
From: massimodipierro71 at gmail.com (mdipierro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 01:32:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: taking python enterprise level?...
References: <5cd38064-34d6-40d3-b3dc-2c853fc86728@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1d8cf423-d13e-4b18-b68b-108f85cae5af@t34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

100,000 hits a day is not a low. I get that some day on my web server
without problem and without one request dropped.

Most frameworks web2py, Django, Pylons can handle that kind of load
since Python is not the bottle neck.
You have to follow some tricks:

1) have the web server serve static pages directly and set the pragma
cache expire to one month
2) cache all pages that do not have forms for at least few minutes
3) avoid database joins
4) use a server with at least 512KB Ram.
5) if you pages are large, use gzip compression

If you develop your app with the web2py framework, you always have the
option to deploy on the Google App Engine. If you can live with their
constraints you should have no scalability problems.

Massimo



On Feb 25, 4:26?am, simn_stv <nany... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> hello people, i have been reading posts on this group for quite some
> time now and many, if not all (actually not all!), seem quite
> interesting.
> i plan to build an application, a network based application that i
> estimate (and seriously hope) would get as many as 100, 000 hits a day
> (hehe,...my dad always told me to 'AIM HIGH' ;0), not some 'facebook'
> or anything like it, its mainly for a financial transactions which
> gets pretty busy...
> so my question is this would anyone have anything that would make
> python a little less of a serious candidate (cos it already is) and
> the options may be to use some other languages (maybe java, C (oh
> God))...i am into a bit of php and building API's in php would not be
> the hard part, what i am concerned about is scalability and
> efficiency, well, as far as the 'core' is concerned.
>
> would python be able to manage giving me a solid 'core' and will i be
> able to use python provide any API i would like to implement?...
>
> im sorry if my subject was not as clear as probably should be!.
> i guess this should be the best place to ask this sort of thing, hope
> im so right.
>
> Thanks



From michael at stroeder.com  Fri Feb 26 04:33:38 2010
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:33:38 +0100
Subject: ANN: python-ldap-2.3.11
Message-ID: <mailman.269.1267194414.4577.python-announce-list@python.org>

Find a new release of python-ldap:

  http://www.python-ldap.org/

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

Ciao, Michael.

-- 
Michael Str?der
E-Mail: michael at stroeder.com
http://www.stroeder.com

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.3.11 2010-02-26

Changes since 2.3.10:

Lib/
* Fixed LDAP URL parsing with four ? but no real extensions
* ldap.ldapobject.LDAPObject.rename_s() now also accepts arguments
  serverctrls and clientctrls
* Removed untested and undocumented class ldap.ldapobject.SmartLDAPObject
* Removed broken method ldap.ldapobject.LDAPObject.manage_dsa_it()

Modules/
* Make use of LDAP_OPT_X_TLS_NEWCTX only if available in
  OpenLDAP libs used for the build
* Fixed #ifdef-statements for OPT_X_TLS_PROTOCOL_MIN

Doc/
* Some updates and corrections regarding description of use of
  LDAPv3 controls
* Some more descriptions for constants
* Removed comments related to old LaTeX-based documentation system




From lars at gustaebel.de  Fri Feb 26 04:36:28 2010
From: lars at gustaebel.de (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gust=E4bel?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:36:28 +0100
Subject: Why tarfile.TarFile.gzopen is not in the online documentation?
In-Reply-To: <d14bb4711002260028s498290a2l2616139f5d763d6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d14bb4711002240037v383dc56ewa33de8ae231c6c43@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100224101423.GA27668@axis.g33x.de>
	<d14bb4711002260028s498290a2l2616139f5d763d6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100226093627.GA21027@axis.g33x.de>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 09:28:04AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
> 2010/2/24 Lars Gust?bel <lars at gustaebel.de>
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:37:19AM +0100, Baptiste Lepilleur wrote:
> > > I stumbled uppon this and find it somewhat odd: some class methods of
> > > TarFile and TarInfo do not appears in either the online documentation or
> > > search while they have a doc string:
> > >
> > But to answer your question: Yes, this is intentional. The TarFile class
> > has three classmethods taropen(), gzopen(), and bz2open() each for a
> > specific compression method. These three are used internally by the
> > TarFile.open() classmethod and are not intended to be called directly. The
> > TarFile.open() method is the one that is publicly documented and supposed
> > to be used. It decides which of the three methods to use based on the mode
> > argument and does many more other high-level things as well.
> >
> 
> I think it would be best to annotate the help string to let people know of
> the facts it is not intended for public usage (or restriction that apply,
> e.g. only for subclassing as you hinted in another post).

Well, then please take the time and open an issue at bugs.python.org, so
that this won't get lost. I will then see what I can do.

-- 
Lars Gust?bel
lars at gustaebel.de

Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, Apache inside.


From tropea at centroserviziterritoriali.com  Fri Feb 26 05:00:37 2010
From: tropea at centroserviziterritoriali.com (Ippolito Nievo)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:00:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: modbus pymodbus
Message-ID: <6a551b81-8085-4a32-a868-64bd869eda08@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi all, someone can help me to pymodbus use? I must send some command
and read aswer from an inverter. It use ModBus RTU.

Thanks a lot


From prasad.chand at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 05:01:59 2010
From: prasad.chand at gmail.com (prasad_chand)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 02:01:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: A more pythonish code
References: <f38c0a10-beb9-47c8-9608-d2f861236bb4@v20g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.249.1267120622.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e95775bb-f2c8-4b7c-9da9-99b7d393ffc3@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hi Mr.Posner & nn,

Thank your for your time & effort. I never knew that for...ever
combination even existed. I would keep these insights in mind in the
future.

Thanks again,
Prasad

On Feb 25, 10:57?pm, John Posner <jjpos... at optimum.net> wrote:
> On 2/25/2010 7:23 AM, prasad_chand wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I use python to do simple math problems as a hobby.
>
> > I have made a program that finds the number of divisors(factors) of a
> > given number. I am hoping to improve my language skills, specifically
> > I would like to re-write the function "prime_factors" more gracefully.
> > While the program works right, I am hoping that I could get some input
> > on how to write better python code. I have attached the code below.
>
> > def prime_factors(n):
> > ? ? ?"""
> > ? ? ?Reduce a number to its prime factors. e.g. 48 is 2^4,3^1 (add (4+1)
> > (1+1) = 10)
>
> > ? ? ?Updates a global dictionary(my_dict) with prime numbers and number
> > of occurances. In the case of 48 {2:4,3:1}
>
> > ? ? ?"""
> > ? ? ?tmp_n = n
>
> A name meaning "temporary value of n" doesn't suggest how it's being
> used in the algorithm. In my implementation (see below), I used the name
> "last_result", which is (a little bit) better.
>
>
>
> > ? ? ?while True:
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?if tmp_n == 1:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?tmp_check = tmp_n
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if tmp_n % x == 0:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?add_to_dict(x)
>
> This function changes the value of a global variable, *my_dict*. Using
> global variables is frowned upon. In this case, it would be much better
> to have the dictionary be local to the *prime_factor* function. After
> you've broken out of the *while* loop, just execute "return my_dict".
>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?tmp_n /= x
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?if tmp_check == tmp_n: #number is prime...so just to add to
> > dict
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?add_to_dict(tmp_n)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break
>
> The only reason that the *tmp_check* variable exists is to test whether
> you fell out of the *for* loop without finding any divisors for *tmp_n*.
> A cleaner approach is to use the optional *else* clause of the *for*
> loop, which is executed only if you didn't *break* out of the loop:
>
> ? ? ?for x in range(2,int(ceil(sqrt(tmp_n)) + 1)):
> ? ? ? ? ?if tmp_n % x == 0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?add_to_dict(x)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?tmp_n /= x
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break
> ? ? ?else:
> ? ? ? ? ?# tmp_n is prime...so just to add to dict
> ? ? ? ? ?add_to_dict(tmp_n)
> ? ? ? ? ?break
>
>
>
> > def add_one(x):
> > ? ? ?return x+1
>
> > def mul(x,y):
> > ? ? ?return x * y
>
> > def add_to_dict(p_num):
> > ? ? ?if my_dict.has_key(p_num):
> > ? ? ? ? ?my_dict[p_num] += 1
> > ? ? ?else:
> > ? ? ? ? ?my_dict[p_num] = 1
>
> As poster pruebauno pointed out, using a collections.defaultdict
> eliminates the need for the *add_to_dict* function.
>
>
>
> > my_dict = {}
>
> > prime_factors(135)
> > l = map(add_one,my_dict.values())
> > print reduce(mul, l, 1)
>
> This may seem trivial, but ... don't use the single-character lowercase
> "l" as a variable. It looks too much like the digit "1" -- in some
> fonts, it looks identical!
>
> FWIW, here's my implementation. It's much slower, because it doesn't use
> the square root optimization. It uses another optimization: when a prime
> factor is located, *all* of its occurrences are factored out at the same
> time.
>
> #--------------------------------
> from collections import defaultdict
>
> def prime_factors(n):
> ? ? ?"""Return the prime factors of the given number (>= 2)"""
> ? ? ?if n < 2:
> ? ? ? ? ?print "arg must be >= 2"
> ? ? ? ? ?return
>
> ? ? ?last_result = n
> ? ? ?factors = defaultdict(int)
> ? ? ?next_divisor = 2
>
> ? ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ? ?while last_result % next_divisor == 0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?factors[next_divisor] += 1
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?last_result /= next_divisor
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if last_result == 1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return factors
> ? ? ? ? ?next_divisor += 1
> #--------------------------------
>
> HTH,
> John



From zubin.mithra at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 05:15:53 2010
From: zubin.mithra at gmail.com (Zubin Mithra)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:45:53 +0530
Subject: PyAutoRun
Message-ID: <8e7c74321002260215lc68d617x12ed543563e6ad21@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have been using python for quite some time; however this is the
first python project i have worked on.

The code is hosted at http://github.com/zubin71/PyAutoRun

The code needs re-factoring and feature additions; i have put up a
TODO list there too. It`d be great if anyone could work on this; i
intend to develop this further(with a bit of help) and will request
for its addition into debian and ubuntu repositories, in time.

Also, any kind of code-review, criticism, is also appreciated.
However, it`d be awesome if you could just fork it at github, pull,
modify and push. :)

Have a nice day!

cheers!!!
Zubin


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 26 05:27:51 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:27:51 +0100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
In-Reply-To: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B87A227.50100@sequans.com>

Joan Miller wrote:
> When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> *__doc__*.
>
> Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> get the docstring without import a package
>   
Epydoc, a documentation builder is able to do so with the --parse-only 
option. You could take a look at the code, even grab their parser to 
suit your needs. It may be quite difficult though.

JM


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 26 05:51:05 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:51:05 +1100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> *__doc__*.

Joan, in this message and numerous others you've been following the
widespread convention of using asterisks ?*? to surround text you want
to emphasise.

Normally that's good, but in a programming-language context (or any
other where asterisks have a separate established meaning), it's not a
good idea. In many cases, asterisks signify ?match any number of
arbitrary characters at this position?, which gives a rather different
meaning to what you're writing.

You might be better off using quotes (like '__doc__' or ?__doc__?), or
the reStructuredText syntax for demarcating a special element, backticks
(like `__doc__`). Even they need to be used with care, though, because
they also have specific established meanings (except the typographical
quotes, which is why I use them).

I hope that helps.

> Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> get the docstring without import a package

Why is it you want to do this? Modules should not have unwanted side
effects when imported; if you can't import the module without invoking
those unwanted side effects, the module is poorly written.

That's not to say that such poorly-written modules don't exist. What is
the situation? Perhaps there's a better solution.

-- 
 \      ?Earth gets its price for what Earth gives us.? ?James Russell |
  `\                                                            Lowell |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Feb 26 05:57:16 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:57:16 +0100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm89e2$o0t$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Joan Miller wrote:

> When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> *__doc__*.
> 
> Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> get the docstring without import a package

Something to get you started:


import ast


def walk(root, stack):
    for node in ast.iter_child_nodes(root):
        if isinstance(node, (ast.FunctionDef, ast.ClassDef)):
            yield node
        stack.append(node)
        for child in walk(node, stack):
            yield child
        del stack[-1]

def get_name(node):
    try:
        return node.name
    except AttributeError:
        return "(%s)" % node.__class__.__name__

def get_path(path):
    return ".".join(get_name(node) for node in path)

def find_docstrings(filename):
    with open(filename) as f:
        module = ast.parse(f.read())
    print filename.center(len(filename) + 2).center(80, "=")
    print ast.get_docstring(module)
    print "=" * 80
    print

    path = []
    for node in walk(module, path):
        s = ast.get_docstring(node)
        if s is not None:
            name = get_path(path + [node])
            print name.center(len(name) + 2).center(80, "-")
            print s
            print


if __name__ == "__main__":
    import sys
    args = sys.argv[1:]
    if args:
        for arg in args:
            find_docstrings(arg)
    else:
        find_docstrings("/usr/lib/python2.6/unittest.py")
        assert "unittest" not in sys.modules

To get an idea of the differences to the import-based approach try analysing 
the following script:

import random

if random.choice([True, False]):
    def f():
        "say hello"
else:
    def f():
        "kill a kitten"

def g():
    "whatever"
del g

Peter


From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Fri Feb 26 05:59:05 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:59:05 +1300
Subject: Executable problem - socket?
References: <hm4o2o$9il$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm89hq$v79$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message <hm4o2o$9il$1 at speranza.aioe.org>, Gib Bogle wrote:

> The only clue is that the machines that her program runs on have
> Python installed, while the one that fails doesn't.

Wouldn?t it be a whole lot simpler to install Python on the bloody machine?



From peloko45 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 06:23:17 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:23:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <76cde733-17b2-41ae-8e59-734e4c5d6fd6@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 26 feb, 10:51, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> writes:
> > When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> > *__doc__*.
>
> Joan, in this message and numerous others you've been following the
> widespread convention of using asterisks ?*? to surround text you want
> to emphasise.
>
> Normally that's good, but in a programming-language context (or any
> other where asterisks have a separate established meaning), it's not a
> good idea. In many cases, asterisks signify ?match any number of
> arbitrary characters at this position?, which gives a rather different
> meaning to what you're writing.
>
> You might be better off using quotes (like '__doc__' or ?__doc__?), or
> the reStructuredText syntax for demarcating a special element, backticks
> (like `__doc__`). Even they need to be used with care, though, because
> they also have specific established meanings (except the typographical
> quotes, which is why I use them).
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> > Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> > get the docstring without import a package
>
> Why is it you want to do this? Modules should not have unwanted side
> effects when imported; if you can't import the module without invoking
> those unwanted side effects, the module is poorly written.
>
> That's not to say that such poorly-written modules don't exist. What is
> the situation? Perhaps there's a better solution.
I use a function in 'setupy.py' to get automatically the description
from the package's docstring, but there is a problem when you import a
module that has to be built by cython (because it tries load a module
that doesn't exists).


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 06:29:51 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:29:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<hm89e2$o0t$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <8889b428-7d1d-44fa-838e-27f2671e9263@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 26 feb, 10:57, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> Joan Miller wrote:
> > When a package is imported, it gets the dosctring to store it in
> > *__doc__*.
>
> > Does that funcion is built in python? because I would want use it to
> > get the docstring without import a package
>
> Something to get you started:
>
> import ast
>
> def walk(root, stack):
> ? ? for node in ast.iter_child_nodes(root):
> ? ? ? ? if isinstance(node, (ast.FunctionDef, ast.ClassDef)):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? yield node
> ? ? ? ? stack.append(node)
> ? ? ? ? for child in walk(node, stack):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? yield child
> ? ? ? ? del stack[-1]
>
> def get_name(node):
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? return node.name
> ? ? except AttributeError:
> ? ? ? ? return "(%s)" % node.__class__.__name__
>
> def get_path(path):
> ? ? return ".".join(get_name(node) for node in path)
>
> def find_docstrings(filename):
> ? ? with open(filename) as f:
> ? ? ? ? module = ast.parse(f.read())
> ? ? print filename.center(len(filename) + 2).center(80, "=")
> ? ? print ast.get_docstring(module)
> ? ? print "=" * 80
> ? ? print
>
> ? ? path = []
> ? ? for node in walk(module, path):
> ? ? ? ? s = ast.get_docstring(node)
> ? ? ? ? if s is not None:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? name = get_path(path + [node])
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print name.center(len(name) + 2).center(80, "-")
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print s
> ? ? ? ? ? ? print
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
> ? ? import sys
> ? ? args = sys.argv[1:]
> ? ? if args:
> ? ? ? ? for arg in args:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? find_docstrings(arg)
> ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? find_docstrings("/usr/lib/python2.6/unittest.py")
> ? ? ? ? assert "unittest" not in sys.modules
>
> To get an idea of the differences to the import-based approach try analysing
> the following script:
>
> import random
>
> if random.choice([True, False]):
> ? ? def f():
> ? ? ? ? "say hello"
> else:
> ? ? def f():
> ? ? ? ? "kill a kitten"
>
> def g():
> ? ? "whatever"
> del g
>
> Peter

Thanks! What I need there is:

---------
with open(os.path.join(path, package, '__init__.py')) as f:
    module = ast.parse(f.read())

print ast.get_docstring(module)


From sanelson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 06:40:14 2010
From: sanelson at gmail.com (Stephen Nelson-Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 03:40:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [M2Crypto] Problems uploading to IIS using FTP over SSL
Message-ID: <8383975f-8e86-4783-a69e-67f5acb6c058@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

System:

# rpm -q python m2crypto
python-2.4.3-27.el5
m2crypto-0.16-6.el5.6
# cat /etc/redhat-release

Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.4 (Tikanga)
I have the following method:

def ftp_tarball(aggregation_dir, date_format, ftp_server, ftp_user,
ftp_pass):
  date = datetime.today().strftime(date_format)
  ftp = ftpslib.FTP_TLS()
  ftp.connect(ftp_server)
  ftp.auth_tls()
  ftp.set_pasv(0)
  ftp.login(ftp_user, ftp_pass)
  filename = aggregation_dir + 'zultys-logs_' + date + '.tar.gz'
  short_name = os.path.split(filename)[1]
  tarball = open(filename, 'rb')
  ftp.storbinary('STOR ' + short_name, tarball)
  tarball.close()
  ftp.quit()

This works perfectly with VSFTPD on Linux, with SSL forced for non-
anonymous users.

I try to connect to a supplier's IIS FTP server, and get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/lumberjack", line 45, in ?
    lumberjack.ftp_tarball( aggregation_dir, date_format, ftp_server,
ftp_user, ftp_pass )
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/lumberjack.py", line 93, in
ftp_tarball
    ftp.storbinary('STOR ' + short_name, tarball)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 415, in storbinary
    conn = self.transfercmd(cmd)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 345, in transfercmd
    return self.ntransfercmd(cmd, rest)[0]
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/M2Crypto/ftpslib.py", line
86, in ntransfercmd
    conn, size = FTP.ntransfercmd(self, cmd, rest)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 331, in ntransfercmd
    sock = self.makeport()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 292, in makeport
    resp = self.sendport(host, port)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 256, in sendport
    return self.voidcmd(cmd)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 246, in voidcmd
    return self.voidresp()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 221, in voidresp
    resp = self.getresp()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 216, in getresp
    raise error_perm, resp
ftplib.error_perm: 501 Server cannot accept argument.

A colleague is able to connect using the Filezilla client, configured
as servertype: FTPES - FTP over explicit TLS/SSL setting.

I've not been able to find any further guidnance on the web.

If you've experienced this before, or can see something that I've
obviously got wrong, I'd appreciate your help.

TIA,

S.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 06:43:20 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:43:20 +1300
Subject: PyQt 4.7 installation on Windows
Message-ID: <hm8c4o$rmj$1@speranza.aioe.org>

I've just installed Python 2.6.4 and PyQt 4.7 on my Windows machine, on which I 
was using Python 2.5 and PyQt 4.5.  Now 'from PyQt4 import QtGui'
fails to find the DLL.  Some googling shows that others have encountered the 
same problem, and a workaround is to copy QtGui4.dll (for example) from
D:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\PyQt4\bin
to
D:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\PyQt4
This is obviously not a solution, just a clue.  Another clue is that the Python 
2.5 installation didn't have the \bin subdirectory, instead all the DLLs were in 
PyQt4.  It looks as if for 2.6 the DLLs have been moved but the search path 
hasn't been changed.  sys.path includes D:\python26\lib\site-packages, and the 
Windows PATH environment variable includes D:\Python26\Lib\site-packages\PyQt4\bin

For some reason I have a sense of deja vu.  Can anyone help?


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Fri Feb 26 06:47:33 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:47:33 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm693f$3ev$1@reader2.panix.com>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
	<hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm65jj$ip7$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm693f$3ev$1@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <hm8ccr$2ne$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 25.02.2010 17:39, schrieb Grant Edwards:
> IMO, any sort of "commented out" code left in a program is a
> big mistake.  If the code is soething that does need to stay
> for optional use, then it needs to be properly integrated along
> with logic to control when it's used.

OK, then we are perfectly fine and of course for personal use everyone 
can "comment out" code as they wish.

I'd just hate to see something like "if False" in production level code.


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Fri Feb 26 06:52:13 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:52:13 +0100
Subject: What's the word on using """ to comment-out?
In-Reply-To: <hm8ccr$2ne$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hm3qhi$2cd$1@reader2.panix.com> <87hbp5rboq.fsf@rudin.co.uk>
	<hm63n0$9tf$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm65jj$ip7$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm693f$3ev$1@reader2.panix.com>
	<hm8ccr$2ne$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hm8clh$2ne$2@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 26.02.2010 12:47, schrieb Michael Rudolf:
> I'd just hate to see something like "if False" in production level code.

And yeah, I've seen it. And worse.


From J.Fine at open.ac.uk  Fri Feb 26 07:00:50 2010
From: J.Fine at open.ac.uk (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:00:50 +0000
Subject: WANTED: Regular expressions for breaking TeX/LaTeX document into
	tokens
In-Reply-To: <mailman.173.1267033751.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <hm34is$k0v$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>
	<mailman.173.1267033751.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm8d5i$22l$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>

Wes James wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:03 AM, Jonathan Fine <J.Fine at open.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Does anyone know of a collection of regular expressions that will break a
>> TeX/LaTeX document into tokens?  Assume that there is no verbatim or other
>> category code changes.
> 
> I'm not sure how this does it, but it might help:
> 
> http://plastex.sourceforge.net/plastex/sect0025.html

Thanks, Wes.  I'm already using PlasTeX

It handles changes of category codes, which makes it over the top for 
what I want to do.  In addition it is a  fairly large complex 
application, and sadly it's not at all easy to use just a part of the 
code base.

There's been more discussion of this thread on comp.text.tex (which is 
where I set the follow-up to).

-- 
Jonathan


From no-spam at non-existing.invalid  Fri Feb 26 07:04:38 2010
From: no-spam at non-existing.invalid (Robert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:04:38 +0100
Subject: (and about tests) Re: Pedantic pickling error after reload?
In-Reply-To: <7uo1aqFitnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net> <7uo1aqFitnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <hm8de7$ct5$1@news.albasani.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Am 25.02.10 18:08, schrieb Robert:
>> After (intended/controlled) reload or similar action on a module/class
>> the pickle/cPickle.dump raises errors like
>>
>> pickle.PicklingError: Can't pickle <class 'somemodule.SomeClass'>: it's
>> not the same object as somemodule.SomeClass
>>
>>
>> Cause in pickle.py (and cPickle) is a line
>> "if klass is not obj:"
>>
>> Shouldn't it be enough to have "if klass.__name__ != obj.__name__:"
>> there?
>
> No. This would alias classes of same name, but living in different modules.
>
> So at least you need to compare these, too. I'm not sure if there aren't

at that point of comparison the module is already identical 
("klass = getattr(mod, name)")

> even more corner-cases. Python's import-mechanism can sometimes be
> rather foot-shoot-prone.

still don't see a real reason against the mere module+name 
comparison. same issues as during pickle.load. Just the class 
object is renewed (intentionally)

If there are things with nested classes etc, the programmer will 
have to rethink things on a different level: design errors. a 
subject for pychecker/pylint - not for breaking pickle .dump ... ?

>
>> => a bug report/feature request?
>>
>> Classes can change face anyway during pickled state, why should a
>> over-pedantic reaction break things here during runtime?
>> (So far I'd need to walk the object tree in all facets and save against
>> inf loops like pickle himself and re-class things .. )
>
> If anything it's a feature - and I doubt it's really needed. Because
> reloading pickles with intermittend reload-module-operations is to rare
> a case to be really supported IMHO.

well, reloading is the thing which I do most in coding practice :-)
For me its a basic thing like cell proliferation in biology.

In my projects particularly with GUI or with python based http 
serving, I typically support good live module reloadabily even 
actively by some extra little "reload support code" (which fixes 
up the .__class__ etc of living Windows tree, main objects, 
servers ... plus a ?xisinstance? in very few locations) - at least 
I do this for the frequently changing core modules/classes.
This way I feel a edit-run cycle >2x faster when the project is 
getting bigger and bigger, or when developing things out 
interactively. Code is exchanged frequently while living objects 
stay for long ... works well in practice.

Reentering into the same (complex) app state for evolving those 
thousands of small thing (where a full parallel test coverage 
doesn't work out) is a major dev time consuming factor in bigger 
projects - in C, Java projects and even with other dynamic languages.
Dynamic classes are a main reason why I use Python (adopted from 
Lisp long time ago; is that reload thing here possible with Ruby too?)

I typically need just 1 full app reboot on 20..50 edit-run-cycles 
I guess. And just few unit test runs per release. Even for 
Cython/pyximport things I added support for this reload 
edit-run-cycle, because I cannot imagine to dev without this.

Just standard pickle issues stood in the way. And this patch (and 
a failover from cPickle to pickle) did well so far.


>
> Do yourself a favor, write a unit-test that tests the desired behavior
> that makes you alter your code & then reload. This makes the problem go
> away, and you have a more stable development through having more tests :)

this is a comfortable quasi religious theory raised often and 
easily here and there - impracticable and very slow on that fine 
grained code evolution level however. an interesting issue.

I do unit tests for getting stability on a much higher level 
where/when things and functionality are quite wired.
Generally after having compared I cannot confirm that "write 
always tests before development" ideologies pay off in practice.
"Reload > pychecker/pylint > tests" works most effectively with 
Python in my opinion.
And for GUI-development the difference is max.
(min for math algorithms which are well away from data structures/OO)


Another issue regarding tests IMHO is, that one should not waste 
the "validation power" of unit tests too easily for permanent low 
level evolution purposes because its a little like bacteria 
becoming resistent against antibiotics: Code becoming 'fit' 
against artificial tests, but not against real word.
For example in late stage NASA tests of rockets and like, there is 
a validation rule, that when those tests do not go through green, 
there is not just a fix of the (one) cause - screwing until it 
works. the whole thing is at stake.
And the whole test scheme has to be rethought too. ideally, 
whenever such a late test brakes, it requires that a completely 
new higher test has to be invented (in addition) ... until there 
is a minimal set of "fresh green lights" which were red only 
during there own tests, but never red regarding the real test run.

A rule that unit tests are used only near a release or a milestone 
is healthy in that sense I think.
(And a quick edit-(real)run-interact cycle is good for speed)


Robert


From candide at free.invalid  Fri Feb 26 07:29:04 2010
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:04 +0100
Subject: Quoting quotes
Message-ID: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Suppose you have to put into a Python string the following sentence :

The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare

It's easy do it :

>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare"""
The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare

Now, change the sentence to this one :

The play "All's Well That Ends Well"

Using triple single quotes works fine

>>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"


But the first method doesn't run correctly :


>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
                                                   ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>>>


Any comment ?




From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Fri Feb 26 07:29:33 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:33 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
Message-ID: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Hi,

pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project under development. By default, 
untrusted code executed in the sandbox cannot modify the environment (write a 
file, use print or import a module). But you can configure the sandbox to 
choose exactly which features are allowed or not, eg. import sys module and 
read the file /etc/issue.

I think that the project reached the "testable" stage. I launch a new 
challenge: try to escape from the sandbox. I'm unable to write strict rules. 
The goal is to access objects outside the sandbox. Eg. write into a file, 
import a module which is not in the whitelist, modify an object outside the 
sandbox, etc.

To test the sandbox, you have 3 choices:
 - interpreter.py: interactive interpreter executed in the sandbox, use:
    --verbose to display the whole sandbox configuration,
    --features=help to enable help() function,
    --features=regex to enable regex,
    --help to display the help.
 - execfile.py <your_script.py>: execute your script in the sandbox. 
   It has also --features option: use --features=stdout to be able 
   to use the print instruction :-)
 - use directly the Sandbox class: use methods call(), execute()
   or createCallback()

Don't use "with sandbox: ..." because there is known but with local frame 
variables. I think that I will later drop this syntax because of this bug. 
Except of debug_sandbox, I consider that all features are safe and so you can 
enable all features :-)

There is no prize, it's just for fun! But I will add the name of hackers 
founding the best exploits.

pysandbox is not ready for production, it's under heavy development. Anyway I 
*hope* that you will quickly find bugs!

--

Use tests.py to found some examples of how you can escape a sandbox. pysandbox 
is protected against all methods described in tests.py ;-)

See the README file to get more information about how pysandbox is implemented 
and get a list of other Python sandboxes.

pysandbox is currently specific to CPython, and it uses some ugly hacks to 
patch CPython in memory. In the worst case it will crash the pysandbox Python 
process, that's all. I tested it under Linux with Python 2.5 and 2.6. The 
portage to Python3 is not done yet (is someone motivated to write a 
patch? :-)).

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Fri Feb 26 07:35:02 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:35:02 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
Message-ID: <201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le vendredi 26 f?vrier 2010 13:29:33, Victor Stinner a ?crit :
> pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project

... I just forget to explain how to download it.

Website: http://github.com/haypo/pysandbox/

Download the repository using git:
  git clone git://github.com/haypo/pysandbox.git 
or
  git clone http://github.com/haypo/pysandbox.git

Or download the .zip or .tar.gz tarball using the "Download source" button on 
the website.

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 26 07:35:30 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:35:30 +1100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<76cde733-17b2-41ae-8e59-734e4c5d6fd6@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87635k41kd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> I use a function in 'setupy.py' to get automatically the description
> from the package's docstring, but there is a problem when you import a
> module that has to be built by cython (because it tries load a module
> that doesn't exists).

A simple approach (at least, simpler than crawling a parse tree) might
be to store the package description in a separate non-executable file.

A common convention is to have a ?README? text file, written in
reStructuredText for rendering to various output formats as part of the
documentation. You could then have the ?setup.py? program read the
contents of that file and use it (or a slice of it) for the package
description.

-- 
 \                         ?Sometimes I ? no, I don't.? ?Steven Wright |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ivan.python1 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 07:37:10 2010
From: ivan.python1 at gmail.com (=?windows-1252?Q?Ivan_=8Aipo=9A?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:37:10 +0100
Subject: Quoting quotes
In-Reply-To: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B87C076.104@gmail.com>

On 26.2.2010. 13:29, candide wrote:
> Suppose you have to put into a Python string the following sentence :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> It's easy do it :
>
>    
>>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare"""
>>>>          
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> Now, change the sentence to this one :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
> Using triple single quotes works fine
>
>    
>>>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
>>>>          
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
>
> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
>
>
>    
>>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>>>>          
>    File "<stdin>", line 1
>      print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>                                                     ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>    
>>>>          
>
> Any comment ?
>
>
>    
Well, there's no such thing as """" defined in python.



From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Fri Feb 26 07:42:27 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:42:27 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<c8f734d7-f5a7-4ce1-85ae-63e16485095d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100226134227.10c94afe@geekmail.INVALID>

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:51:00 -0800 (PST) John Roth
<johnroth1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 24, 1:23?pm, Andreas Waldenburger <use... at geekmail.INVALID>
> wrote:
> > a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code
> > in Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically
> > looks like this:
> >
> > """Function that does stuff"""
> > def doStuff():
> > ? ? while not wise(up):
> > ? ? ? ? yield scorn
> > [snip]
> Is the problem that they've got the docstring in the wrong place,
> or that the comment isn't saying anything that can't be read in
> the method name?
> 
It's the first. I am superficial like that. I just needed a docstring
to illustrate and didn't want to get overly creative.

Not that they don't write redundant docstrings.

And they use mixedCase function/method names.

And they write getters and setters gratuitously.


> The first is easily fixable with a bit of tutorial about how
> a properly placed docstring prints out in various contexts, plus
> a quick script to move the suckers.
> 
Well, I'm not really in a position to tell them that. I'd be kind of
the dork of the office in doing so. Thus my kvetching here. :)

So basically, there is nothing to discuss, really. I just wanted to
remind everyone that there are still morons out there (as in "lacking
esprit and mental flexibility"), make everyone feel better about
themselves (because surely THEY don't do that!) and then carry on.


> The second is going to take more work to get the point across
> that comments that reproduce what the method name says are waste.
> 
They seem to need the reassurance, I guess, so why not let them. ;)

/W


-- 
INVALID? DE!



From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Fri Feb 26 07:42:46 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:42:46 +0100
Subject: Quoting quotes
In-Reply-To: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <201002261342.47003.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le vendredi 26 f?vrier 2010 13:29:04, candide a ?crit :
> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
> 
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>                                                    ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string

Use triple simple single quotes:

>>> print '''"All's Well That Ends Well"'''
"All's Well That Ends Well"

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From peloko45 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 08:02:53 2010
From: peloko45 at gmail.com (Joan Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:02:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<76cde733-17b2-41ae-8e59-734e4c5d6fd6@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<87635k41kd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <8777b981-6ca8-49b2-93d8-4b37b2f99b79@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 26 feb, 12:35, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> Joan Miller <pelok... at gmail.com> writes:
> > I use a function in 'setupy.py' to get automatically the description
> > from the package's docstring, but there is a problem when you import a
> > module that has to be built by cython (because it tries load a module
> > that doesn't exists).
>
> A simple approach (at least, simpler than crawling a parse tree) might
> be to store the package description in a separate non-executable file.
>
> A common convention is to have a ?README? text file, written in
> reStructuredText for rendering to various output formats as part of the
> documentation. You could then have the ?setup.py? program read the
> contents of that file and use it (or a slice of it) for the package
> description.
I get the 'README.txt' file to get the long description but I use the
docstring because each package should include a short desciption about
it.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Feb 26 08:43:43 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:43:43 -0500
Subject: Quoting quotes
In-Reply-To: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002260543q1daf794bg1ce4e31af45ae378@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:29 AM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:

> Suppose you have to put into a Python string the following sentence :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> It's easy do it :
>
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare"""
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> Now, change the sentence to this one :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
> Using triple single quotes works fine
>
> >>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
>
> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
>
>
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>  File "<stdin>", line 1
>    print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>                                                   ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
> >>>
>
>
> Any comment ?
>
>
>

You have 4 quotes at the end of the line instead of 3. So the first 3 close
the long quote and then the 4th opens a new quote which doesn't get closed.


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 08:56:56 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:56:56 +0100
Subject: (and about tests) Re: Pedantic pickling error after reload?
In-Reply-To: <hm8de7$ct5$1@news.albasani.net>
References: <hm6aru$514$1@news.albasani.net> <7uo1aqFitnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<hm8de7$ct5$1@news.albasani.net>
Message-ID: <7uq299FrmfU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> at that point of comparison the module is already identical ("klass =
> getattr(mod, name)")

Ah, didn't know that context.

>> even more corner-cases. Python's import-mechanism can sometimes be
>> rather foot-shoot-prone.
>
> still don't see a real reason against the mere module+name comparison.
> same issues as during pickle.load. Just the class object is renewed
> (intentionally)
>
> If there are things with nested classes etc, the programmer will have to
> rethink things on a different level: design errors. a subject for
> pychecker/pylint - not for breaking pickle .dump ... ?

I don't say it necessarily breaks anything. I simply don't know enough 
about it. It might just be that back then, identity was deemed enough to 
check, but you can well argue your case on the python-dev list, 
providing a patch + tests that ensure there is no regression.

> well, reloading is the thing which I do most in coding practice :-)
> For me its a basic thing like cell proliferation in biology.

I simply never do it. It has subtle issues, one of them you found, 
others you say you work around by introducing actual frameworks. But you 
might well forget some corner-cases & suddently chase a chimera you deem 
a bug, that in fact is just an unwanted side-effect of reloading.

And all this extra complexity is only good for the process of actually 
changing the code. It doesn't help you maintaining code quality.

> Reentering into the same (complex) app state for evolving those
> thousands of small thing (where a full parallel test coverage doesn't
> work out) is a major dev time consuming factor in bigger projects - in
> C, Java projects and even with other dynamic languages.
> Dynamic classes are a main reason why I use Python (adopted from Lisp
> long time ago; is that reload thing here possible with Ruby too?)

So what? If this kind of complex, through rather lengthy interactions 
evolved state is the thing you need to work within, that's reason enough 
for me to think about how to automate setting this very state up. That's 
what programming is about - telling a computer to do things it can do, 
which usually means it does them *much* faster & *much* more reliable 
than humans do.

Frankly, I can't be bothered with clicking through layers of GUIs to 
finally reach the destination I'm actually interested in. Let the 
computer do that. And once I teached him how so, I just integrate that 
into my test-suite.


> I typically need just 1 full app reboot on 20..50 edit-run-cycles I
> guess. And just few unit test runs per release. Even for
> Cython/pyximport things I added support for this reload edit-run-cycle,
> because I cannot imagine to dev without this.

Let me assure you - it works :)

for example yesterday, I create a full CRUD-interface for a web-app 
(which is the thing I work on mostly these days) without *once* taking a 
look at the browser. I wrote actions, forms, HTML, and tests along, 
developed the thing ready, asserted certain constraints and error-cases, 
and once finished, fired up the browser - and he saw, it worked!

Yes, I could have written that code on the fly, hitting F5 every few 
seconds/minutes to see if things work out (instead of just running the 
specific tests through nose) - and once I'd be finished, I didn't have 
anything permanent that ensured the functionality over time.

> this is a comfortable quasi religious theory raised often and easily
> here and there - impracticable and very slow on that fine grained code
> evolution level however. an interesting issue.

To me, that's as much as an religious statement often heard by people 
that aren't (really) into test-driven development. By which I personally 
don't mean the variant where one writes tests first, and then code. I 
always develop both in lock-step, sometimes introducing a new feauter 
first in my test as e.g. new arguments, or new calls, and then 
implementing them, but as often the other way round.

The argument is always a variation of "my problem is to complicated, the 
code-base to interviened to make it possible to test this".

I call this a bluff. You might work with a code-base that makes it 
harder than needed to write tests for new functionality. But then, most 
of the time this is a sign of lack of design. Writing with testability 
in mind makes you think twice about how to proper componentize your 
application, clearly separate logic from presentation, validates 
API-design because using the API is immediatly done when writing the 
tests you need, and so forth.

>
> I do unit tests for getting stability on a much higher level where/when
> things and functionality are quite wired.
> Generally after having compared I cannot confirm that "write always
> tests before development" ideologies pay off in practice.
> "Reload > pychecker/pylint > tests" works most effectively with Python
> in my opinion.
> And for GUI-development the difference is max.
> (min for math algorithms which are well away from data structures/OO)

As I said, I mainly do web these days. Which can be considered GUIs as 
well. Testing the HTTP-interface is obviously easier & possible, and 
what I described earlier.

But we also use selenium to test JS-driven interfaces, as now the 
complexity of the interface rises, with all the bells & whistles of 
ajaxiness and whatnot.


> Another issue regarding tests IMHO is, that one should not waste the
> "validation power" of unit tests too easily for permanent low level
> evolution purposes because its a little like bacteria becoming resistent
> against antibiotics: Code becoming 'fit' against artificial tests, but
> not against real word.

That's why I pull in the real world as well. I don't write unit-tests 
only (in fact, I don't particularily like that term, because of it's 
narrow-minded-ness), I write tests for whatever condition I envision 
*or* encounter.

If anything that makes my systems fail is reproducable, it becomes a new 
test - and ensures this thing isn't ever happening again.

Granted, though: there are things you can't really test, especially in 
cases where you interact with different other agents that might behave 
(to you) erratically.

I've done robot developent as well, and of course testing e.g. an 
acceleration ramp dependend on ground conditions isn't something a 
simple unit-test can reproduce.

but then... I've written some, and made sure the robot was in a 
controlled environment when executing them :)

All in all, this argument is *much* to often used as excuse to simply 
not go to any possible length to make your system testable as far as it 
possibly can be. And in my experience, that's further than most people 
think. And as a consequence, quality & stability as well as design of 
the application suffer.

> A rule that unit tests are used only near a release or a milestone is
> healthy in that sense I think.
> (And a quick edit-(real)run-interact cycle is good for speed)

Nope, not in my opinion. Making tests an afterthought may well lead to 
them being written carelessly, not capturing corner-cases you 
encountered while actually developing, and I don't even buy the speed 
argument, as I already said - most of the times, the computer is faster 
than you setting up the environment for testing, how complex ever that 
may be.

Testing is no silver bullet. But it's a rather mighte sword.. :)

Diez


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 09:04:35 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 14:04:35 GMT
Subject: Quoting quotes
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b87d4f3$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:04 +0100, candide wrote:

> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
> 
> 
>>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>                                                    ^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>>>>
>>>>
> 
> Any comment ?

Of course not. Quotes can't be nested, so the first time the parser hits 
three quote marks, you have reached the end of the string. You then open 
a new string with a single quote mark, and then fail to close it. Hence 
the EOL while scanning a single-quoted string.

There are many solutions. Here are four:

>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well\""""
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>>> print 'The play "All\'s Well That Ends Well"'
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>>> print 'The play "All' "'" 's Well That Ends Well"'
The play "All's Well That Ends Well"

-- 
Steven


From sanelson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 09:05:18 2010
From: sanelson at gmail.com (Stephen Nelson-Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:05:18 +0000
Subject: [M2Crypto] Problems uploading to IIS using FTP over SSL
Message-ID: <b6131fdc1002260605x6e57f6e6t16ce167754b9af4f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

System:

# rpm -q python m2crypto
python-2.4.3-27.el5
m2crypto-0.16-6.el5.6
# cat /etc/redhat-release

Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.4 (Tikanga)

I have the following method:

def ftp_tarball(aggregation_dir, date_format, ftp_server, ftp_user,
ftp_pass):
  date = datetime.today().strftime(date_format)
  ftp = ftpslib.FTP_TLS()
  ftp.connect(ftp_server)
  ftp.auth_tls()
  ftp.set_pasv(0)
  ftp.login(ftp_user, ftp_pass)
  filename = aggregation_dir + 'zultys-logs_' + date + '.tar.gz'
  short_name = os.path.split(filename)[1]
  tarball = open(filename, 'rb')
  ftp.storbinary('STOR ' + short_name, tarball)
  tarball.close()
  ftp.quit()

This works perfectly with VSFTPD on Linux, with SSL forced for non-
anonymous users.

I try to connect to a supplier's IIS FTP server, and get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/lumberjack", line 45, in ?
    lumberjack.ftp_tarball( aggregation_dir, date_format, ftp_server,
ftp_user, ftp_pass )
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/lumberjack.py", line 93, in
ftp_tarball
    ftp.storbinary('STOR ' + short_name, tarball)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 415, in storbinary
    conn = self.transfercmd(cmd)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 345, in transfercmd
    return self.ntransfercmd(cmd, rest)[0]
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/site-packages/M2Crypto/ftpslib.py", line
86, in ntransfercmd
    conn, size = FTP.ntransfercmd(self, cmd, rest)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 331, in ntransfercmd
    sock = self.makeport()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 292, in makeport
    resp = self.sendport(host, port)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 256, in sendport
    return self.voidcmd(cmd)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 246, in voidcmd
    return self.voidresp()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 221, in voidresp
    resp = self.getresp()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.4/ftplib.py", line 216, in getresp
    raise error_perm, resp
ftplib.error_perm: 501 Server cannot accept argument.

A colleague is able to connect using the Filezilla client, configured
as servertype: FTPES - FTP over explicit TLS/SSL setting.

I've not been able to find any further guidance on the web.

If you've experienced this before, or can see something that I've
obviously got wrong, I'd appreciate your help.

TIA,

S.


From edreamleo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 09:15:26 2010
From: edreamleo at gmail.com (Edward K Ream)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:15:26 -0600
Subject: ANN: Leo 4.7.1 released
Message-ID: <nqlfo5h08mq4rntifqfh2n2m8gt2o3qprv@4ax.com>

Leo 4.7.1 final is now available at:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458&package_id=29106

Leo 4.7.1 fixes a dangerous bug in Leo 4.7. When converting file-like
sentinels to thin-like sentinels in an external file, Leo now issues a
warning and sets the corresponding @file node dirty. This ensures that
Leo will write the converted external file and .leo file together,
making it impossible to lose data.

Leo is a text editor, data organizer, project manager and much more.
See:
http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/intro.html

The highlights of Leo 4.7:
--------------------------

- Leo now uses the simplest possible internal data model.
  This is the so-called "one-node" world.
- Leo supports Python 3.x.
- Leo requires Python 2.6 or above.
- Several important improvements in file handling.
    - Leo converts @file nodes to @thin nodes automatically.
    - Leo creates a 'Recovered Nodes' node to hold data that
      otherwise might be lost due to clone conflicts.
    - @auto-rst now works much more reliably reliably.
    - Leo no longer supports @noref trees.  Such trees are not
      reliable in cooperative environments.
- A new Windows installer.
- Many other features, including new command line options and new
plugins.
- Dozens of bug fixes.

Links:
------
Leo:      http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
Forum:    http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor
Download: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
Bzr:      http://code.launchpad.net/leo-editor/
Quotes:   http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/testimonials.html


From rdv at roalddevries.nl  Fri Feb 26 09:22:19 2010
From: rdv at roalddevries.nl (Roald de Vries)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:22:19 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <7uog65F5vuU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.254.1267127876.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7uog65F5vuU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <B9F28AD1-D3E3-4285-B7B6-7CE7DDE6A208@roalddevries.nl>

Hi Luca,

On Feb 26, 2010, at 12:41 AM, Luca wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>> Perhaps you could use a different extension, eg ".pyn", so existing
>> ".py" files are handled as-is but ".pyn" files are read through a
>> translator.
>
> This could be a good idea... especially since i could make my own  
> extension since we are talking of a special-purpose application that  
> only incorporates python as a library.

I would suggest to do choose the same strategy as 'from __future__  
import ...' takes, which does similar things and limits them to the  
module it is used in. I would be curious to hear about your results.

Kind regards, Roald




From gslindstrom at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 09:23:54 2010
From: gslindstrom at gmail.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:23:54 -0600
Subject: PyCon 2011 - Call for Tutorial Volunteers
Message-ID: <a9f39a411002260623g53aa56che00651d7c40e1713@mail.gmail.com>

PyCon 2010 is complete and plans for PyCon 2011 in Atlanta have already
begun!  The main conference will once again be proceeded by two days of
tutorials.  There was quite a bit of feedback from students and teachers
this year that we want to incorporate in next years classes.  In order to do
this, more people need to get involved; why not you?  You do not need to
have any experience in organizing a national conference, just the desire to
help out.  There is plenty to do from tasks that take a couple of hours to
others that span months and you will get help with everything.  The areas we
will be working on are:

* Proposals -  help with the call for tutorial proposals and selection of
classes
* Room Assignments - help get the selected tutorials assigned to classrooms
and monitor attendance numbers
* Notes - work with teachers to get class notes printed and distributed
* Program Guide - work with conference organizers to get tutorial
information in the conference guide
* Feedback - Work to get meaningful feedback from students and teachers (so
PyCon 2012 is even better!)
* Payments - collect information so our teachers get paid
* Runner - On tutorial days at the conference, make yourself available to do
whatever needs to be done.

It's a lot of work -- and a lot of fun-- to put on tutorials for PyCon each
year.  You won't get paid, but you will get one of the snappy "staff" tee
shirts when you attend PyCon and you get to work with an incredibly
dedicated group of volunteers.

Interested?  Please drop a note at pycon-tutorials at python.org and let us
know.

Thanks,

Greg Lindstrom
Tutorial Coordinator, PyCon 2011 (Atlanta)
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From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 26 09:37:43 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:37:43 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>

>> pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project

Out of curiosity, the python sandbox behind google app engine is open source?
If so, how is it different from your project, if not, anyone knows if
it will be in the future?

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From python at bdurham.com  Fri Feb 26 09:50:08 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:50:08 -0500
Subject: Possible to import from a cStringIO file object vs. file on disk?
Message-ID: <1267195808.16415.1362063523@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Is it possible to import from a cStringIO file object (containing
compiled byte code) vs. a physical file on disk?

I'm thinking that this is possible, given Python's ability to
import from zip files, but I'm not sure where to look next.

Thank you,
Malcolm
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 26 09:50:25 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:50:25 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <20100226134227.10c94afe@geekmail.INVALID>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<c8f734d7-f5a7-4ce1-85ae-63e16485095d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<20100226134227.10c94afe@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <4B87DFB1.1080201@sequans.com>

Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:51:00 -0800 (PST) John Roth
> <johnroth1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> On Feb 24, 1:23 pm, Andreas Waldenburger <use... at geekmail.INVALID>
>> wrote:
>>     
>>> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code
>>> in Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically
>>> looks like this:
>>>
>>> """Function that does stuff"""
>>> def doStuff():
>>>     while not wise(up):
>>>         yield scorn
>>> [snip]
>>>       
>> Is the problem that they've got the docstring in the wrong place,
>> or that the comment isn't saying anything that can't be read in
>> the method name?
>>
>>     
> It's the first. I am superficial like that. I just needed a docstring
> to illustrate and didn't want to get overly creative.
>
> Not that they don't write redundant docstrings.
>
> And they use mixedCase function/method names.
>   
and ? whatIsTheProblem ?
PEP8 is one style guide, not *the* style guide. There is neither 
technical nor readability issue with mixedCase, classes in PEP 8 using 
MixedCase. The thing is they had to chose one preference for the methods 
and they choose lower_case. Fine, but it's still a matter of preference 
(or arbitrary decision). Since you don't write code for the standard 
library, you can use any other naming convention.
You've may have guessed it, I am using mixedCase method names, and I 
tell you, you cannot compare this in any way with their dumb usage of 
doctrings you've shown above.

That being said, yoru OP's still soemhow funny, I would have shot them 
on sight :-)

JM



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb 26 10:04:04 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:04:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Quoting quotes
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4b87d4f3$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hm8nt4$3si$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-26, Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:29:04 +0100, candide wrote:
>
>> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
>> 
>> 
>>>>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>>     print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>>                                                    ^
>> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> 
>> Any comment ?
>
> Of course not. Quotes can't be nested, so the first time the
> parser hits three quote marks, you have reached the end of the
> string. You then open a new string with a single quote mark,
> and then fail to close it. Hence the EOL while scanning a
> single-quoted string.

IMO, the error message is misleading to many people, since in
many/most contexts the term "single-quoted" refers to this:

  'here is a single quoted string'

And not this:

  "this is a double-quoted string"

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! And then we could sit
                                  at               on the hoods of cars at
                               visi.com            stop lights!


From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Fri Feb 26 10:04:57 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:04:57 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le vendredi 26 f?vrier 2010 15:37:43, Daniel Fetchinson a ?crit :
> >> pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project
> 
> Out of curiosity, the python sandbox behind google app engine is open
>  source? If so, how is it different from your project, if not, anyone knows
>  if it will be in the future?

I don't know this project. Do you have the URL of the project home page? Is it 
the "safelite.py" project?

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Feb 26 10:09:36 2010
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>

On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
> 
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
>     while not wise(up):
>         yield scorn
> 
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
> 
> /W
> 

Reminiscent of:

mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX

And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:

; This is a comment



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/



From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:32:48 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:32:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 3:15?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> > solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> > First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> > but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> > related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> > #Module main.py
> > from A import *
>
> > class App:
> > ? ? ?def sperg(self):
> > ? ? ? ? ? self.a = A()
>
> > app = App()
> > [main loop and such]
> > ? -----------------------------
> > # Module A.py
> > import main
> > class Foo:
> > ? ? ? ?Selves=[]
> > ? ? ? def __init__(self):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Foo.Selves.append(self)
> > ? ? ? @staticmethod
> > ? ? ? def chum_callback(nType, nP):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # Need to access function / data in app instance
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? app.sperg(nP)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # Need to access func data in Foo
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
> > ? ? ? def getSelf(nP):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return self.Selves[nP]
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> > get at them from the staticmethod.
> > What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
> > the A.py module.
>
> > How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> > with the class instance in the constructor)?
> > Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> > Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>
> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
> utilized by ctypes?
>
> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>
> Diez

__main__.K   << *facepalm* should of tried that!

Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:

        #Function wrapper
        A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int,  \
				POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)

        #DLL call to register the local callback function
        DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)

    class A:
        #Local callback function
	@staticmethod
	def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
             print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
             print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
             print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
             print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
             pass

I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
methods / properties.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 10:41:27 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:41:27 +0100
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
> On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de>  wrote:
>> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
>>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>>
>>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
>>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
>>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>>
>>> #Module main.py
>>> from A import *
>>
>>> class App:
>>>       def sperg(self):
>>>            self.a = A()
>>
>>> app = App()
>>> [main loop and such]
>>>    -----------------------------
>>> # Module A.py
>>> import main
>>> class Foo:
>>>         Selves=[]
>>>        def __init__(self):
>>>                  Foo.Selves.append(self)
>>>        @staticmethod
>>>        def chum_callback(nType, nP):
>>>                  # Need to access function / data in app instance
>>>                  app.sperg(nP)
>>>                  # Need to access func data in Foo
>>>                  # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
>>>                  self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>>
>>>        def getSelf(nP):
>>>                  return self.Selves[nP]
>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
>>> get at them from the staticmethod.
>>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
>>> the A.py module.
>>
>>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
>>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
>>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>>
>>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>>
>> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
>> utilized by ctypes?
>>
>> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
>> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>>
>> Diez
>
> __main__.K<<  *facepalm* should of tried that!
>
> Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
> local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
> are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>
>          #Function wrapper
>          A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int,  \
> 				POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>
>          #DLL call to register the local callback function
>          DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>
>      class A:
>          #Local callback function
> 	@staticmethod
> 	def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
>               print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
>               print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
>               print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
>               print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
>               pass
>
> I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
> say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
> functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
> methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
> way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
> 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
> still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
> methods / properties.

The above code can't work with self, because you use

  A.expCallback

which at best can of course be a classmethod.

You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this

  a = A()
  DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)

Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of 
static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some* 
callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you 
like, including bound methods.

Diez


From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:42:32 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:42:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<4b877470$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <a1ac1b93-7c2f-4975-bb68-852f0737055d@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 1:12?am, Steven D'Aprano <st... at REMOVE-THIS-
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 21:07:55 -0800, darnzen wrote:
> > Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> > solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> > First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks, but
> > because of this, I'm losing instance info.
> [...]
> > How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along with
> > the class instance in the constructor)? Is there another way to do this
> > that's not such a hack?
>
> Pass the instance explicitly:
>
> >>> class K(object):
>
> ... ? ? @staticmethod
> ... ? ? def static(self, x, y):
> ... ? ? ? ? print self, x, y
> ...>>> k = K()
> >>> k.static(k, 1, 2)
>
> <__main__.K object at 0xb7c2544c> 1 2
>
> --
> Steven

Unfortunately, since the callback is from the DLL which I didn't
write, I can not change what is passed to the function. Also, the DLL
has no idea about my local namespace. The DLL typically will pass back
two integers (which I can set the values of when I register the
callback), and some data. Currently Im' using these integers as keys
in a local dict where I'm storing the instances.

I suppose I could use the integers to store the high and low order
bytes of a pointer to the instance, but not sure how to do that in
Python (would be easy in c/c++). Also, I'm not sure how python memory
management works, if it will move objects around and make things
buggy. Also, that is definitely a hack and isn't very 'pythonesque'


From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:47:10 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:47:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <feb0001d-cd3f-4ce8-813f-74c10e10ee89@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 9:41?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> ?wrote:
> >> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>
> >>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> >>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> >>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> >>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> >>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> >>> #Module main.py
> >>> from A import *
>
> >>> class App:
> >>> ? ? ? def sperg(self):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.a = A()
>
> >>> app = App()
> >>> [main loop and such]
> >>> ? ?-----------------------------
> >>> # Module A.py
> >>> import main
> >>> class Foo:
> >>> ? ? ? ? Selves=[]
> >>> ? ? ? ?def __init__(self):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Foo.Selves.append(self)
> >>> ? ? ? ?@staticmethod
> >>> ? ? ? ?def chum_callback(nType, nP):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Need to access function / data in app instance
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?app.sperg(nP)
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Need to access func data in Foo
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
> >>> ? ? ? ?def getSelf(nP):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return self.Selves[nP]
>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> >>> get at them from the staticmethod.
> >>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
> >>> the A.py module.
>
> >>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> >>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
> >>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> >>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>
> >> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
> >> utilized by ctypes?
>
> >> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
> >> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > __main__.K<< ?*facepalm* should of tried that!
>
> > Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
> > local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
> > are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?#Function wrapper
> > ? ? ? ? ?A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int, ?\
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?#DLL call to register the local callback function
> > ? ? ? ? ?DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>
> > ? ? ?class A:
> > ? ? ? ? ?#Local callback function
> > ? ?@staticmethod
> > ? ?def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pass
>
> > I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
> > say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
> > functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
> > methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
> > way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
> > 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
> > still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
> > methods / properties.
>
> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>
> ? A.expCallback
>
> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>
> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>
> ? a = A()
> ? DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>
> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
> like, including bound methods.
>
> Diez

This was originally how my code was set up, invoking with the bound
methods, but it didn't work (crashing and bizzaro errors) and I was
pulling my hair out. Then I read the documentation and changed it to
static methods and everything started working. Believe me, I totally
understand how using bound methods would make this problem go away.


From aioe.org at technicalbloke.com  Fri Feb 26 10:52:49 2010
From: aioe.org at technicalbloke.com (r0g)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:52:49 +0000
Subject: Offline windows registry access on *nix platforms.
Message-ID: <hm8qoo$ti3$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Hi Everybody,

I do a fair bit of programming in Python and I have to say I find perl a
little intimidating right now as I don't have a lot of experience with
it however its the only language I have found that seemed to have a
library for what I need right now: Win32::Registry (or maybe
Win32::TieRegistry)

I way to read/search for windows registry keys from offline hive files
e.g. NTUSER.DAT on *nix platforms, in my case Ubuntu linux - nothing
more advanced than that.

Given that I only need this functionality, performance is a not issue
and I'm very comfortable in Python I thought I might try and write a
pair of wrapper functions - one to check the existence of a key, one to
return a keys values.

Sadly though I have fallen at the first hurdle, I get "OS unsupported"
when I type "install Win32::Registry" into CPAN so I guess it's windows
only :(

Anyone know of an open source module/library that can do what I want?
Ideally Python or Perl, but I suppose any free language I can compile or
easily bundle/distribute would do.

Alternatively if anyone knows of a *nix app that can decode a windows
registry into a flat text file?

At a push I could compile something that can do this on windows and run
it via wine but I'd really like to avoid that if I can.

Suggestions & pointers greatly appreciated,

Roger.


From darnzen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:57:38 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:57:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 9:41?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> ?wrote:
> >> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>
> >>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> >>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> >>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> >>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> >>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> >>> #Module main.py
> >>> from A import *
>
> >>> class App:
> >>> ? ? ? def sperg(self):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.a = A()
>
> >>> app = App()
> >>> [main loop and such]
> >>> ? ?-----------------------------
> >>> # Module A.py
> >>> import main
> >>> class Foo:
> >>> ? ? ? ? Selves=[]
> >>> ? ? ? ?def __init__(self):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Foo.Selves.append(self)
> >>> ? ? ? ?@staticmethod
> >>> ? ? ? ?def chum_callback(nType, nP):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Need to access function / data in app instance
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?app.sperg(nP)
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Need to access func data in Foo
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
> >>> ? ? ? ?def getSelf(nP):
> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return self.Selves[nP]
>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> >>> get at them from the staticmethod.
> >>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
> >>> the A.py module.
>
> >>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> >>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
> >>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> >>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>
> >> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
> >> utilized by ctypes?
>
> >> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
> >> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > __main__.K<< ?*facepalm* should of tried that!
>
> > Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
> > local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
> > are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?#Function wrapper
> > ? ? ? ? ?A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int, ?\
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?#DLL call to register the local callback function
> > ? ? ? ? ?DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>
> > ? ? ?class A:
> > ? ? ? ? ?#Local callback function
> > ? ?@staticmethod
> > ? ?def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pass
>
> > I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
> > say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
> > functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
> > methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
> > way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
> > 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
> > still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
> > methods / properties.
>
> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>
> ? A.expCallback
>
> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>
> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>
> ? a = A()
> ? DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>
> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
> like, including bound methods.
>
> Diez

Thinking about it some more, I believe I understand why it has to be
staticfunction. To use an bound method would require the wrapper to
include a reference to the instance as follows:

A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(A), c_int, c_int,  \
                                POINTER(Data_s))(a.Callback)

Since a = A(); a.foo() is really A.foo(self). The problem here is that
A is not a ctypes object and I can't change what arguments the DLL
uses in the callback in any case. Rewording my thoughts: a bound
method callback would require 'self' to be the first argument. I can
not make the DLL include 'self' as it doesn't know anything about the
objects in my program. Since I can't pass 'self', it has to be a
staticmethod.


From jlconlin at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 10:58:14 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
Message-ID: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
I also need platform independence without having to install a database
and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

Thanks,
Jeremy


From willia2501 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:04:55 2010
From: willia2501 at gmail.com (William Lohrmann)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:04:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Quoting quotes
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <bda4748c-49ec-4383-81c1-7baaae567180@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 26 Feb, 13:29, candide <cand... at free.invalid> wrote:
> Suppose you have to put into a Python string the following sentence :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> It's easy do it :
>
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare"""
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well" by Shakespeare
>
> Now, change the sentence to this one :
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
> Using triple single quotes works fine
>
> >>> print '''The play "All's Well That Ends Well"'''
>
> The play "All's Well That Ends Well"
>
> But the first method doesn't run correctly :
>
> >>> print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
>
> ? File "<stdin>", line 1
> ? ? print """The play "All's Well That Ends Well""""
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string
>
>
>
> Any comment ?

The best thing would be to backslash the single quote: print 'The play
"All\'s Well That Ends Well"'


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 11:08:46 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:08:46 +0100
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 16:57, schrieb darnzen:
> On Feb 26, 9:41 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de>  wrote:
>> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de>    wrote:
>>>> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>>
>>>>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
>>>>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>>
>>>>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
>>>>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
>>>>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>>
>>>>> #Module main.py
>>>>> from A import *
>>
>>>>> class App:
>>>>>        def sperg(self):
>>>>>             self.a = A()
>>
>>>>> app = App()
>>>>> [main loop and such]
>>>>>     -----------------------------
>>>>> # Module A.py
>>>>> import main
>>>>> class Foo:
>>>>>          Selves=[]
>>>>>         def __init__(self):
>>>>>                   Foo.Selves.append(self)
>>>>>         @staticmethod
>>>>>         def chum_callback(nType, nP):
>>>>>                   # Need to access function / data in app instance
>>>>>                   app.sperg(nP)
>>>>>                   # Need to access func data in Foo
>>>>>                   # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
>>>>>                   self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>>
>>>>>         def getSelf(nP):
>>>>>                   return self.Selves[nP]
>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
>>>>> get at them from the staticmethod.
>>>>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app instance in
>>>>> the A.py module.
>>
>>>>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
>>>>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
>>>>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>>
>>>>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>>
>>>> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is the DLL
>>>> utilized by ctypes?
>>
>>>> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would give
>>>> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>>
>>>> Diez
>>
>>> __main__.K<<    *facepalm* should of tried that!
>>
>>> Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
>>> local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
>>> are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>>
>>>           #Function wrapper
>>>           A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int,  \
>>>                             POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>>
>>>           #DLL call to register the local callback function
>>>           DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>>
>>>       class A:
>>>           #Local callback function
>>>     @staticmethod
>>>     def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
>>>                print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
>>>                print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
>>>                print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
>>>                print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
>>>                pass
>>
>>> I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
>>> say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
>>> functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
>>> methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
>>> way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
>>> 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
>>> still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
>>> methods / properties.
>>
>> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>>
>>    A.expCallback
>>
>> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>>
>> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>>
>>    a = A()
>>    DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>>
>> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
>> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
>> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
>> like, including bound methods.
>>
>> Diez
>
> Thinking about it some more, I believe I understand why it has to be
> staticfunction. To use an bound method would require the wrapper to
> include a reference to the instance as follows:
>
> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(A), c_int, c_int,  \
>                                  POINTER(Data_s))(a.Callback)
>
> Since a = A(); a.foo() is really A.foo(self). The problem here is that
> A is not a ctypes object and I can't change what arguments the DLL
> uses in the callback in any case. Rewording my thoughts: a bound
> method callback would require 'self' to be the first argument. I can
> not make the DLL include 'self' as it doesn't know anything about the
> objects in my program. Since I can't pass 'self', it has to be a
> staticmethod.

No, that's not true. A bound method implictly knows about it self, and 
it's a callable.

What I guess is that you did the same mistake I did when I created that 
example - namely, not keeping a refernce to the bound method around. 
Ctypes will then garbage-collect the callback, which of course leads to 
all kinds of troubles.

Try this:

  a = A()
  # keep this around
  bound_m = a.expCallback
  DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)

Diez


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Feb 26 11:11:15 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:11:15 -0500
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002260811r6ba6da85qca41a29b503ceaa0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy
>


Python has SQLite 3 built-in and there are wrappers for MySQL and PostgreSQL
on all major platforms. Any one of them will work- databases have the
advantage that they're stored on the disk so you don't have all of it in
memory simultaneously.


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From aioe.org at technicalbloke.com  Fri Feb 26 11:14:50 2010
From: aioe.org at technicalbloke.com (r0g)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:14:50 +0000
Subject: Offline windows registry access on *nix platforms.
References: <hm8qoo$ti3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <hm8s22$18l$1@speranza.aioe.org>

r0g wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
> 
> I do a fair bit of programming in Python and I have to say I find perl a
> little intimidating right now as I don't have a lot of experience with
> it however its the only language I have found that seemed to have a
> library for what I need right now: Win32::Registry (or maybe
> Win32::TieRegistry)
> 
> I way to read/search for windows registry keys from offline hive files
> e.g. NTUSER.DAT on *nix platforms, in my case Ubuntu linux - nothing
> more advanced than that.


Actually scrap that, just found "Parse::Win32Registry", happy days! :)

Roger.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Feb 26 11:20:35 2010
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:20:35 +0100
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7uqamjFd2vU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Am 26.02.10 17:08, schrieb Diez B. Roggisch:
> Am 26.02.10 16:57, schrieb darnzen:
>> On Feb 26, 9:41 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
>>> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
>>>>> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>>>
>>>>>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
>>>>>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>>>
>>>>>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
>>>>>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
>>>>>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>>>
>>>>>> #Module main.py
>>>>>> from A import *
>>>
>>>>>> class App:
>>>>>> def sperg(self):
>>>>>> self.a = A()
>>>
>>>>>> app = App()
>>>>>> [main loop and such]
>>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>>> # Module A.py
>>>>>> import main
>>>>>> class Foo:
>>>>>> Selves=[]
>>>>>> def __init__(self):
>>>>>> Foo.Selves.append(self)
>>>>>> @staticmethod
>>>>>> def chum_callback(nType, nP):
>>>>>> # Need to access function / data in app instance
>>>>>> app.sperg(nP)
>>>>>> # Need to access func data in Foo
>>>>>> # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
>>>>>> self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>>>
>>>>>> def getSelf(nP):
>>>>>> return self.Selves[nP]
>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
>>>>>> get at them from the staticmethod.
>>>>>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app
>>>>>> instance in
>>>>>> the A.py module.
>>>
>>>>>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
>>>>>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
>>>>>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>>>
>>>>> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is
>>>>> the DLL
>>>>> utilized by ctypes?
>>>
>>>>> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would
>>>>> give
>>>>> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>>>
>>>>> Diez
>>>
>>>> __main__.K<< *facepalm* should of tried that!
>>>
>>>> Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
>>>> local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
>>>> are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>>>
>>>> #Function wrapper
>>>> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int, \
>>>> POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>>>
>>>> #DLL call to register the local callback function
>>>> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>>>
>>>> class A:
>>>> #Local callback function
>>>> @staticmethod
>>>> def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
>>>> print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
>>>> print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
>>>> print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
>>>> print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
>>>> pass
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
>>>> say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
>>>> functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
>>>> methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
>>>> way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
>>>> 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
>>>> still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
>>>> methods / properties.
>>>
>>> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>>>
>>> A.expCallback
>>>
>>> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>>>
>>> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>>>
>>> a = A()
>>> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>>>
>>> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
>>> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
>>> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
>>> like, including bound methods.
>>>
>>> Diez
>>
>> Thinking about it some more, I believe I understand why it has to be
>> staticfunction. To use an bound method would require the wrapper to
>> include a reference to the instance as follows:
>>
>> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(A), c_int, c_int, \
>> POINTER(Data_s))(a.Callback)
>>
>> Since a = A(); a.foo() is really A.foo(self). The problem here is that
>> A is not a ctypes object and I can't change what arguments the DLL
>> uses in the callback in any case. Rewording my thoughts: a bound
>> method callback would require 'self' to be the first argument. I can
>> not make the DLL include 'self' as it doesn't know anything about the
>> objects in my program. Since I can't pass 'self', it has to be a
>> staticmethod.
>
> No, that's not true. A bound method implictly knows about it self, and
> it's a callable.
>
> What I guess is that you did the same mistake I did when I created that
> example - namely, not keeping a refernce to the bound method around.
> Ctypes will then garbage-collect the callback, which of course leads to
> all kinds of troubles.
>
> Try this:
>
> a = A()
> # keep this around
> bound_m = a.expCallback
> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)

AAAAHHRG, same error again.

Of course, use

DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, bound_m)

because the bound method changes with each time you create it.

Sorry for the confusion.

Diez


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 26 11:29:51 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:29:51 -0800
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=E2=80=94Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002260829m3c3da337pe0e8c39dbbe3a1df@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

If you won't be using the SQL features of the database, `shelve` might
be another option; from what I can grok, I sounds like a dictionary
stored mostly on disk rather than entirely in RAM (not 100% sure
though):
http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html

It's in the std lib and supports several native dbm libraries for its
backend; one of them should almost always be present.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From lbolla at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:29:54 2010
From: lbolla at gmail.com (lbolla)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:29:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ee4f429d-c08d-4517-ad8c-ee6406c63b1e@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 3:58?pm, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy

Maybe shelve would be enough for your needs?
http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Fri Feb 26 11:34:59 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:34:59 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<c8f734d7-f5a7-4ce1-85ae-63e16485095d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<20100226134227.10c94afe@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.275.1267195840.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20100226173459.2b376405@geekmail.INVALID>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:50:25 +0100 Jean-Michel Pichavant
<jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:

> Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> 
> > And they use mixedCase function/method names.
> >   
> and ? whatIsTheProblem ?

Thanks for proving my point. ;)

No seriously though: Let it go. I wasn't being serious. As long as it
works and I don't have to work with it, I don't care how anybody writes
their code.

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Fri Feb 26 11:39:07 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:39:07 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
wrote:

> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> > [stuff]
> 
> Reminiscent of:
> 
> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
> 
Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
though.

> And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:
> 
> ; This is a comment
> 
I hope it was in a tutorial-situation. Or maybe it was written by one of
those "ironic" programmers?

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From roy at panix.com  Fri Feb 26 11:39:51 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:39:51 -0500
Subject: Dictionary or Database‹Please advise
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article 
<891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
 Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeremy

This is a very vague question, so it'll get a vague answer :-)

If you have so much data that you're running into memory problems, then 
yes, storing the data externally in an disk-resident database seems like a 
reasonable idea.

Once you get into databases, platform independence will be an issue.  There 
are many databases out there to pick from.  If you want something which 
will work on a lot of platforms, a reasonable place to start looking is 
MySQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python support, and 
there's lots of people on the net who know it and are willing to give help 
and advice.

Databases have a bit of a learning curve.  If you've never done any 
database work, don't expect to download MySql (or any other database) this 
afternoon and be up and running by tomorrow.

Whatever database you pick, you're almost certainly going to end up having 
to install it wherever you install your application.  There's no such thing 
as a universally available database that you can expect to be available 
everywhere.

Have fun!


From roy at panix.com  Fri Feb 26 11:47:28 2010
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:47:28 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>

In article <eq4l57-okf2.ln1 at ozzie.tundraware.com>,
 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:

> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> > Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> > this:
> > 
> > """Function that does stuff"""
> > def doStuff():
> >     while not wise(up):
> >         yield scorn
> > 
> > Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> > authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
> > 
> > /W
> > 
> 
> Reminiscent of:
> 
> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
> 
> And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:
> 
> ; This is a comment

OK, if we're going to do this, how about this one, that I just found 
yesterday in some production C++ code.  I'm so glad somebody took the time 
to explain to me what p7 through p9 are.  I never would have figured it out 
otherwise.

/**
 * Tracing facility. Writes the message to the specified output stream.
 * If output stream is NULL, writes the message to the process log.
 *
 * @param  msg_id  The message id to use for lookup.
 * @param  ostr    The output stream.
 * @param  p1      The first substition parameter.
 * @param  p2      The second substition parameter.
 * @param  p3      The third substition parameter.
 * @param  p4      The fourth substition parameter.
 * @param  p5      The fifth substition parameter.
 * @param  p6      The sixth substition parameter.
 * @param  p7      The seventh substition parameter.
 * @param  p8      The eigth substition parameter.
 * @param  p9      The ninth substition parameter.
*/


From ricaraoz at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:49:55 2010
From: ricaraoz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_Ar=E1oz?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:49:55 -0300
Subject: Exception in pydoc
Message-ID: <4B87FBB3.8090107@gmail.com>

I'm developing an in house app. Many coders here are not fluent in
english, so docstrings must be in Spanish in spite of recommendations
that docstrings better be in English.
When I use accented characters (in this case an '?') in my docstrings I
get :
>>> help('OpMejoraBizobj')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<input>", line 1, in <module>
  File "C:\Python25\lib\site.py", line 346, in __call__
    return pydoc.help(*args, **kwds)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1645, in __call__
    self.help(request)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1687, in help
    elif request: doc(request, 'Help on %s:')
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1481, in doc
    pager(title % desc + '\n\n' + text.document(object, name))
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 324, in document
    if inspect.ismodule(object): return self.docmodule(*args)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1072, in docmodule
    contents.append(self.document(value, key, name))
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 325, in document
    if inspect.isclass(object): return self.docclass(*args)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\pydoc.py", line 1208, in docclass
    contents = '\n'.join(contents)
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position
115: ordinal not in range(128)

The file's first two lines are :
"""
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-
"""

Does pydoc only deal with ASCII?





From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 11:55:32 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:55:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <b4f33c12-c5d2-4840-a5aa-4954926c4832@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Andreas Waldenburger wrote:

> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
> ? ? while not wise(up):
> ? ? ? ? yield scorn
>
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?

Their unit tests are just as complete, illustrative, and
administratively sanctioned, right?

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From steve at holdenweb.com  Fri Feb 26 11:59:56 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:59:56 -0500
Subject: Possible to import from a cStringIO file object vs. file on disk?
In-Reply-To: <1267195808.16415.1362063523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1267195808.16415.1362063523@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <hm8un4$amq$1@dough.gmane.org>

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Is it possible to import from a cStringIO file object (containing
> compiled byte code) vs. a physical file on disk?
>  
> I'm thinking that this is possible, given Python's ability to import
> from zip files, but I'm not sure where to look next.
>  
> Thank you,
> Malcolm
> 

You'll need to write a custom importer. PEP 302 contains the necessary
details.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Fri Feb 26 12:10:12 2010
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:10:12 -0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID><eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <hm8v9k$77g$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>


"Andreas Waldenburger" <usenot at geekmail.INVALID> wrote in message 
news:20100226173907.5567609f at geekmail.INVALID...

>> Reminiscent of:
>>
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
> wouldn't you say?

Depends on what assembler you're used to. I certainly find having the
operands that way round confusing.




From jlconlin at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 12:31:22 2010
From: jlconlin at gmail.com (Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:31:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 9:29?am, Chris Rebert <c... at rebertia.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> > the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> > using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> > before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> > I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> > and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> > something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
>
> If you won't be using the SQL features of the database, `shelve` might
> be another option; from what I can grok, I sounds like a dictionary
> stored mostly on disk rather than entirely in RAM (not 100% sure
> though):http://docs.python.org/library/shelve.html
>
> It's in the std lib and supports several native dbm libraries for its
> backend; one of them should almost always be present.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Shelve looks like an interesting option, but what might pose an issue
is that I'm reading the data from a disk instead of memory.  I didn't
mention this in my original post, but I was hoping that by using a
database it would be more memory efficient in storing data in RAM so I
wouldn't have to read from (or swap to/from) disk.  Would using the
shelve package make reading/writing data from disk faster since it is
in a binary format?

Jeremy


From darcy at druid.net  Fri Feb 26 12:57:50 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:57:50 -0500
Subject: Dictionary or Database_Please advise
In-Reply-To: <roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <20100226125750.45f2406a.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:39:51 -0500
Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:
> Once you get into databases, platform independence will be an issue.  There 
> are many databases out there to pick from.  If you want something which 
> will work on a lot of platforms, a reasonable place to start looking is 
> MySQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python support, and 
> there's lots of people on the net who know it and are willing to give help 
> and advice.

Or PostgreSQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python
support, and there's lots of people on the net who know it and are
willing to give help and advice.  In addition, it is a truly enterprise
level, SQL standard, fully transactional database.  Don't start with
MySQL and uprade to PostgreSQL later when you get big.  Start with the
best one now and be ready.

> Databases have a bit of a learning curve.  If you've never done any 
> database work, don't expect to download MySql (or any other database) this 
> afternoon and be up and running by tomorrow.

Whatever database you get, there will probably be plenty of tutorials.
See http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/interactive/tutorial.html
for the PostgreSQL one.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From srikrishnamohan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:03:43 2010
From: srikrishnamohan at gmail.com (km)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:03:43 +0900
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=E8=BC=9Dlease_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <f4cc03641002261003l5d2967d6g5c279fb675a9c605@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Probably u should try couchdb! its a document oriented database. (
apache.couchdb.org)
u can store your dictionaries as json documents and yes they  are simple
text files; data structures cna be directly stored into JSON documents.
memory efficient too..
python module @ http://code.google.com/p/couchdb-python/

HTH
Krishna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

> In article
> <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
>  Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> > the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> > using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> > before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> > I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> > and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
> > something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jeremy
>
> This is a very vague question, so it'll get a vague answer :-)
>
> If you have so much data that you're running into memory problems, then
> yes, storing the data externally in an disk-resident database seems like a
> reasonable idea.
>
> Once you get into databases, platform independence will be an issue.  There
> are many databases out there to pick from.  If you want something which
> will work on a lot of platforms, a reasonable place to start looking is
> MySQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python support, and
> there's lots of people on the net who know it and are willing to give help
> and advice.
>
> Databases have a bit of a learning curve.  If you've never done any
> database work, don't expect to download MySql (or any other database) this
> afternoon and be up and running by tomorrow.
>
> Whatever database you pick, you're almost certainly going to end up having
> to install it wherever you install your application.  There's no such thing
> as a universally available database that you can expect to be available
> everywhere.
>
> Have fun!
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:04:27 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:04:27 +0100
Subject: Dictionary or =?windows-1252?Q?Database=97Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm92f9$qmg$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jeremy wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

Since you use dictionaries, I guess that simple store saving key:value 
will do?

If so, bsddb support built into Python will do just nicely.

bsddb is multiplatform, although I have not personally tested if a 
binary db created on one platform will be usable on another. You'd have 
to check this.

Caveat: from what some people say I gather that binary format between 
bsddb versions tends to change.

There's also ultra-cool-and-modern Tokyo Cabinet key:value store with 
Python bindings:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pytc/

I didn't test it, though.


Regards,
mk



From garyrob at me.com  Fri Feb 26 13:08:10 2010
From: garyrob at me.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:08:10 -0500
Subject: collections use __next__() in python 2.6?
Message-ID: <20100226130810913273.0085366e@me.com>

The Python 2.6.4 docs for collections at http://docs.python.org/library/collections.html say that __next__() is an abstract method for the Iterable ABC. But my understanding is that __next__() isn't supposed to be used until Python 3. Also, I'm using the Mapping ABC, which inherits from Iterable, and it doesn't seem to work if I define __next__(); I am not seeing problems if I define next() instead.

What am I missing?
-- 

Gary Robinson
CTO
Emergent Music, LLC
personal email: garyrob at me.com
work email: grobinson at flyfi.com
Company: http://www.flyfi.com
Blog:    http://www.garyrobinson.net


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:20:19 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:20:19 +0100
Subject: Dictionary or =?windows-1252?Q?Database=97Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm93d1$u08$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jeremy wrote:

> Shelve looks like an interesting option, but what might pose an issue
> is that I'm reading the data from a disk instead of memory.  I didn't
> mention this in my original post, but I was hoping that by using a
> database it would be more memory efficient in storing data in RAM so I
> wouldn't have to read from (or swap to/from) disk.  Would using the
> shelve package make reading/writing data from disk faster since it is
> in a binary format?

Read the docs:

"class shelve.BsdDbShelf(dict[, protocol=None[, writeback=False]])?
     A subclass of Shelf which exposes first(), next(), previous(), 
last() and set_location() which are available in the bsddb module but 
not in other database modules. The dict object passed to the constructor 
must support those methods. This is generally accomplished by calling 
one of bsddb.hashopen(), bsddb.btopen() or bsddb.rnopen(). The optional 
protocol and writeback parameters have the same interpretation as for 
the Shelf class."

Apparently using shelve internally gives you option of using bsddb, 
which is good news: bsddb is B-tree DB, which is highly efficient for 
finding keys. I would recommend bsddb.btopen(), as it creates B-tree DB 
(perhaps other implementations, like anydb or hash db are good as well, 
but I personally didn't test them out).

I can't say for Berkeley DB implementation, but in general B-tree 
algorithm has O(log2 n) complexity for finding keys, which roughly means 
that if you need to find particular key in a db of 1 million keys, 
you'll probably need ~20 disk accesses (or even less if some keys looked 
at in the process of search happen to be in the same disk sectors). So 
yes, it's highly efficient.

Having said that, remember that disk is many orders of magnitude slower 
than RAM, so it's no free lunch.. Nothing will beat memory-based data 
structure when it comes to speed (well new flash or hybrid disks perhaps 
could significantly improve in comparison to current mainstream 
mechanical-platter disks? there are some hyper-fast storage hardware 
companies out there, although they tend to charge arm and leg for their 
stuff for now).

Caveat: Berkeley DB is dual-licensed -- if you're using it for 
commercial work, it might be that you'd need to buy a license for it. 
Although I have had no experience with this really, if someone here did 
perhaps they will shed some light on it?

Regards,
mk





From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 26 13:25:04 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:25:04 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <4B881200.5060505@sequans.com>

Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
> wrote:
>
>   
>> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>>     
>>> [stuff]
>>>       
>> Reminiscent of:
>>
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>>     
> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
> wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
> though.
>   

I agree to that statement, I was surprised that mov AX,BX assumes that 
BX is the source, and AX the destination. I never programmed in 
assembler though.

JM


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:26:46 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:26:46 +0100
Subject: Dictionary or Database_Please advise
In-Reply-To: <20100226125750.45f2406a.darcy@druid.net>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
	<20100226125750.45f2406a.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <hm93p4$vcc$1@dough.gmane.org>

D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:

> Or PostgreSQL.  It's free, runs on lots of platforms, has good Python
> support, and there's lots of people on the net who know it and are
> willing to give help and advice.  In addition, it is a truly enterprise
> level, SQL standard, fully transactional database.  Don't start with
> MySQL and uprade to PostgreSQL later when you get big.  Start with the
> best one now and be ready.

I second that: I burned my fingers on MySQL quite a few times and don't 
want to have anything to do with it anymore. Eventually you hit the wall 
with MySQL (although I haven't tested latest and best, perhaps they 
improved).

E.g. don't even get me started on replication that tends to randomly 
fizzle out quietly without telling you anything about it. Or that 
FOREIGN KEY is accepted but referential integrity is not enforced. Or 
that if you want real transactions, you have to choose InnoDB table type 
but then you lose much of the performance. Etc.

No, if you have a choice, avoid MySQL and go for PGSQL. It's fantastic, 
if (necessarily) complex.

Regards,
mk



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Feb 26 13:30:23 2010
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:30:23 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <4B88133F.7020006@sequans.com>

Roy Smith wrote:
> In article <eq4l57-okf2.ln1 at ozzie.tundraware.com>,
>  Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
>>> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
>>> this:
>>>
>>> """Function that does stuff"""
>>> def doStuff():
>>>     while not wise(up):
>>>         yield scorn
>>>
>>> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
>>> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?
>>>
>>> /W
>>>
>>>       
>> Reminiscent of:
>>
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>> And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:
>>
>> ; This is a comment
>>     
>
> OK, if we're going to do this, how about this one, that I just found 
> yesterday in some production C++ code.  I'm so glad somebody took the time 
> to explain to me what p7 through p9 are.  I never would have figured it out 
> otherwise.
>
> /**
>  * Tracing facility. Writes the message to the specified output stream.
>  * If output stream is NULL, writes the message to the process log.
>  *
>  * @param  msg_id  The message id to use for lookup.
>  * @param  ostr    The output stream.
>  * @param  p1      The first substition parameter.
>  * @param  p2      The second substition parameter.
>  * @param  p3      The third substition parameter.
>  * @param  p4      The fourth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p5      The fifth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p6      The sixth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p7      The seventh substition parameter.
>  * @param  p8      The eigth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p9      The ninth substition parameter.
> */
>   
just in case the first sub param would be p0 :-)


JM


From arjun.chennu at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:39:08 2010
From: arjun.chennu at gmail.com (Arjun)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:39:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: How to end TCP socket data while using readline()?
Message-ID: <273a2d1e-cff5-4759-a59d-6ccfefddfa40@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have a small script that runs a TCP server. A client connects to
this server and transmits a stored file line-by-line, and then waits
for a confirmation "done". However, when I run them the first loop
never really ends -- as the TCP server keeps expecting more data. I am
using a file-like-object, and so somehow I have to communicate to the
server that it is the end-of-file.

here is some server code
<snip>
            sock1.bind(('', port))
            print "Listening at port: ", port
            sock1.listen(1)      # listening socket
            (conn, addr) = sock1.accept()    # connected socket
            print 'Client (localhost) port: ', addr[1]

            cf = conn.makefile('r',0)    # file like obj for socket

            lf = open('ccs.txt','w')
            for line in cf:
                lf.write(line)
                lf.flush()
                sys.stdout.write(line)
                print len(line)

            lf.close()      (*here*)
            cf.close()
            cf = conn.makefile('w',0)
            print len(line)
            print 'sendin'
            stat = 'done'
            cf.write(stat)
            print stat
            print 'sent'
            cf.close()
            print 'script done & connection closed'
</snip>

The client is sending the lines through this code:
<snip>
        s.connect((host,port))
        sfp = open("dcs.txt")
       # script = sfp.readlines()
        stat = 'still'
        cf = s.makefile('w',0)
        for line in sfp.readlines():
            cf.write(line)
            print len(line)
        print 'close'
        cf.flush()
        cf.close()
        sfp.close()

        cf = s.makefile('r',0)
        print stat, 'waiting'
        stat = cf.readline()
        print stat, 'waiting'  # this should become "done waiting"
        cf.close()
        s.close()
</snip>

So what I am wondering is:

1. Using a file-like object means that the socket becomes uni-
directional, until the mode of the file object is changed from 'r' to
'w' (or vice versa). This seems inefficient, and rather unPythonesque.
Can somebody tell me if there is a more elegant way of receiving all
the lines from the client, and then sending a "done" message to the
client?

2.  Where I have marked (*here*) in the server code, is where the
execution seems to stay waiting... apparently for more input from the
client. But then when I force-terminate the client script, the
execution continues on the server-side!! So then it sends the "done"
status to a (already dead) client, and then exits. How do I get the
server to know when the EOF has been reached while using FLOs?

Input on this will be much appreciated, because the documentation for
readlines() didn't help me with this.

Cheers,
A


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:41:48 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:41:48 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<roy-101095.11472826022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <hm94la$1uv$1@dough.gmane.org>

Roy Smith wrote:

> /**
>  * Tracing facility. Writes the message to the specified output stream.
>  * If output stream is NULL, writes the message to the process log.
>  *
>  * @param  msg_id  The message id to use for lookup.
>  * @param  ostr    The output stream.
>  * @param  p1      The first substition parameter.
>  * @param  p2      The second substition parameter.
>  * @param  p3      The third substition parameter.
>  * @param  p4      The fourth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p5      The fifth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p6      The sixth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p7      The seventh substition parameter.
>  * @param  p8      The eigth substition parameter.
>  * @param  p9      The ninth substition parameter.
> */

Well at least they did explain something. ;-) You should be happy you 
don't have to deal with PHP programmers that tend to write 
20-positional-argument function AND programmer 1 knows what params 1-7 
do, programmer 2 knows what params 8-15 do and nobody knows what params 
16-20 do.

Seriously.

Regards,
mk



From shailendra.vikas at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:07:10 2010
From: shailendra.vikas at gmail.com (Shailendra)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:07:10 -0500
Subject: SystemError: error return without exception set
Message-ID: <f1b536a81002261107k4119bbdflf20703e5809c976d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
I am getting error in "SystemError: error return without exception
set" which i am not able debug. I made following test program which
gives same error.

=========test.py==============

import numpy

class testClass:
    def __init__(self,param1=1,param2=2):
        self.param1,self.param2=param1,param2

    def __str__(self):
        return 'param1=%d param2=%d'%(self.param1,self.param2)


class makeLotOftestClass:
    def __init__(self,paramlist1=None,paramlist2=None):
        self.holder= numpy.empty((len(paramlist1),len(paramlist2)))
        for i in range(len(paramlist1)):
            for j in range(len(paramlist2)):

self.holder[i,j]=testClass(param1=paramlist1[i],param2=paramlist2[j])

    def __str__():
        str=''
        for testclass in numpy.raven(self.holder):
            str=str+testclass.__str__()
        return str

if __name__=='__main__':
    lotofclass=makeLotOftestClass(paramlist1=[10,20,30,40],paramlist2=[110,120,130,140])
    print lotofclass

==============================================

$ python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 25, in <module>
    lotofclass=makeLotOftestClass(paramlist1=[10,20,30,40],paramlist2=[110,120,130,140])
  File "test.py", line 16, in __init__
    self.holder[i,j]=testClass(param1=paramlist1[i],param2=paramlist2[j])
SystemError: error return without exception set

Can someone point out why is this exception. It seems to be a simple
code. Google search for the error message did not help much.

Thanks,
Shailendra


From toby at rcsreg.com  Fri Feb 26 14:13:06 2010
From: toby at rcsreg.com (Tobiah)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:13:06 GMT
Subject: Six Minutes and fourty two seconds
Message-ID: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>

Now that I use python, this is the amount of time 
per day that I spend adding forgotten semicolons while
debugging other languages.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 26 14:23:16 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 11:23:16 -0800
Subject: lists of variables
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9734$o9p$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Michael Pardee  <python-list at open-sense.com> wrote:
>
>I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following
>behavior:

http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From mnordhoff at mattnordhoff.com  Fri Feb 26 14:28:01 2010
From: mnordhoff at mattnordhoff.com (Matt Nordhoff)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:28:01 +0000
Subject: Six Minutes and fourty two seconds
In-Reply-To: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
References: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
Message-ID: <4B8820C1.3010803@mattnordhoff.com>

Tobiah wrote:
> Now that I use python, this is the amount of time 
> per day that I spend adding forgotten semicolons while
> debugging other languages.

You can fix that by not using other languages. :>
-- 
Matt Nordhoff


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Feb 26 14:28:21 2010
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:28:21 -0800
Subject: When will Java go mainstream like Python?
In-Reply-To: <7umqtdFlrrU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <f9e39bbc1002221356h6be4cdf5n55eec32926869e44@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.99.1266915651.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm1nut$5cp$3@lust.ihug.co.nz> <op.u8nfpex8y5e8ok@laptopwanja>
	<hm4icr$q4o$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <7umqtdFlrrU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B8820D5.7030502@animats.com>

Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> And then there?s caching. Modern CPUs owe most of their speed to 
>> assumptions that programs will obey locality of reference. 
>> Pointer-chasing is a cache-
>> hostile activity.
> 
> Another thing to consider is the rate at which garbage is
> created. Java's fundamental types (ints, floats, etc.) are
> unboxed, and objects are only used for relatively heavyweight
> things. So you can do quite a lot of useful computation in
> Java without creating any objects or leaving behind any
> garbage.
> 
> In Python, on the other hand, you can't even do arithmetic
> without creating and destroying intermediate objects at
> every step. 

     This is really a CPython implementation problem.  Face it,
CPython is a "naive interpreter".  It pretty much does the obvious.
In other words, the code for the worst case is used for all cases.
It doesn't optimize out reference count updates, do type inference
to avoid unnecessary boxing, or figure out at compile time which
objects could be "slotted" and don't need dictionary lookups for
fields.  Plus, of course, there's the GIL problem.

     Reference counts aren't inherently slow.  About 90% of reference
count updates could be optimized out.  The compiler needs to understand
what's a temporary object and what isn't.  See

http://blogs.msdn.com/abhinaba/archive/2009/02/09/back-to-basics-optimizing-reference-counting-garbage-collection.aspx

     The language isn't inherently slow, but CPython is.

     The Shed Skin developer has shown what's possible.  He
doesn't have enough resources to finish a full implementation,
but he's on the right track.  There's grumbling about the
restrictions in Shed Skin, but only some of Shed Skin's
restrictions are inherently necessary.  The one Shed Skin
developer has accomplished far more than the PyPy army of ants.

				John Nagle


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 26 14:31:32 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:31:32 +0000
Subject: SystemError: error return without exception set
In-Reply-To: <f1b536a81002261107k4119bbdflf20703e5809c976d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f1b536a81002261107k4119bbdflf20703e5809c976d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B882194.7030500@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Shailendra wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am getting error in "SystemError: error return without exception
> set" which i am not able debug. I made following test program which
> gives same error.
> 
> =========test.py==============
> 
> import numpy
> 
> class testClass:
>     def __init__(self,param1=1,param2=2):
>         self.param1,self.param2=param1,param2
> 
>     def __str__(self):
>         return 'param1=%d param2=%d'%(self.param1,self.param2)
> 
> 
> class makeLotOftestClass:
>     def __init__(self,paramlist1=None,paramlist2=None):
>         self.holder= numpy.empty((len(paramlist1),len(paramlist2)))
>         for i in range(len(paramlist1)):
>             for j in range(len(paramlist2)):
> 
> self.holder[i,j]=testClass(param1=paramlist1[i],param2=paramlist2[j])
> 
>     def __str__():
>         str=''
>         for testclass in numpy.raven(self.holder):
>             str=str+testclass.__str__()
>         return str
> 
> if __name__=='__main__':
>     lotofclass=makeLotOftestClass(paramlist1=[10,20,30,40],paramlist2=[110,120,130,140])
>     print lotofclass
> 
> ==============================================
> 
> $ python test.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 25, in <module>
>     lotofclass=makeLotOftestClass(paramlist1=[10,20,30,40],paramlist2=[110,120,130,140])
>   File "test.py", line 16, in __init__
>     self.holder[i,j]=testClass(param1=paramlist1[i],param2=paramlist2[j])
> SystemError: error return without exception set
> 
> Can someone point out why is this exception. It seems to be a simple
> code. Google search for the error message did not help much.
> 
As I see it, there are 2 problems here:

1. numpy arrays contain numbers, but what you're trying to put into the
array are not numbers.

2. The numpy module is trying to raise an exception but it isn't setting
up the exception correctly internally, which is a bug in numpy itself.


From mrkafk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 14:36:35 2010
From: mrkafk at gmail.com (mk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:36:35 +0100
Subject: Six Minutes and fourty two seconds
In-Reply-To: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
References: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
Message-ID: <hm97s1$e7f$1@dough.gmane.org>

Tobiah wrote:
> Now that I use python, this is the amount of time 
> per day that I spend adding forgotten semicolons while
> debugging other languages.

My objects are flat and I don't know who's Guido.

I blame it all on Python.

How about a PEP "Let's make Python look like PHP"?

Regards,
mk



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 26 14:45:58 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:45:58 +0000
Subject: How to end TCP socket data while using readline()?
In-Reply-To: <db4a45821002261130k6e8b521ds25c9644ae42d911@mail.gmail.com>
References: <273a2d1e-cff5-4759-a59d-6ccfefddfa40@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	
	<4B881F04.7040106@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<db4a45821002261130k6e8b521ds25c9644ae42d911@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8824F6.9010607@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Arjun Chennu wrote:
> No need to flush because you're writing to a file and it'll be flushed
> 
>     anyway when you close it.
> 
> 
> True. I had introduced those flush lines while I was trying to 
> troubleshoot this annoying situation. :-)
> 
>     You've closed the file view, but the underlying socket is still open.
> 
> 
>     The server will see EOF only when the socket is closed by the client,
>     and closing the file view doesn't close the socket itself.
> 
> 
> That's what I intended to do. Keep the socket open, but close the file 
> object so that the direction of transfer can be reversed and a "done" 
> message can be sent to the client.
> 
> TCP is meant to facilitate two-directional transfer innit? So how do I 
> do that while using file objects? If i have to close the socket to do 
> that, it seems a bit wasteful in terms of network 'transactions'
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I've already confirmed that closing the socket 
> does indeed move the program ahead --- but I'd like to now make 
> two-directional comm. possible.
> 
Here's a trick borrowed from the POP3 format (used for email).

Server code:
     ...
     cf = conn.makefile('r', 0)    # file like obj for socket
     lf = open('ccs.txt', 'w')
     for line in cf:
         if line == '.end\n':
             break
         if line.startswith('..'):
             line = line[1 : ]
         lf.write(line)
         sys.stdout.write(line)
         print len(line)
     lf.close()
     cf.close()
     ...


Client code:
     ...
     cf = s.makefile('w', 0)
     for line in sfp.readlines():
         if line.startswith('.'):
             cf.write('.')
         cf.write(line)
         print len(line)
     cr.write('.end\n')
     print 'close'
     cf.close()
     ...


From python at bdurham.com  Fri Feb 26 14:49:09 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:49:09 -0500
Subject: Possible to import from a cStringIO file object vs. file on disk?
In-Reply-To: <1267213340.1668.1362112899@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1267195808.16415.1362063523@webmail.messagingengine.com><hm8un4$amq$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<1267213340.1668.1362112899@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1267213749.2540.1362114855@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Steve,

> You'll need to write a custom importer. PEP 302 contains the necessary details.

Thanks for pointing me to PEP 302 and the imp module. 

It looks like "imp.load_compiled(name, pathname[, file])" is what I
need, but the description of this method (and similar methods) has the
following disclaimer:

Quote: "The file argument is the byte-compiled code file, open for
reading in binary mode, from the beginning. It must currently be a real
file object, not a user-defined class emulating a file." [1]

I tried using a cStringIO object vs. a real file object, but the help
documentation is correct - only a real file object can be used.

Any ideas on why these modules would impose such a restriction or is
this just an historical artifact?

Are there any techniques I can use to avoid this physical file
requirement?

Thanks,
Malcolm

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/imp.html#imp.load_module

python at bdurham.com wrote:
> Is it possible to import from a cStringIO file object (containing
> compiled byte code) vs. a physical file on disk?
>  
> I'm thinking that this is possible, given Python's ability to import
> from zip files, but I'm not sure where to look next.
>  
> Thank you,
> Malcolm
> 


regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Fri Feb 26 15:07:52 2010
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 20:07:52 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.187.1267039205.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uqo0nF1ssU1@mid.individual.net>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:16:24 +0100, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-02-24 20:01, Robert Kern wrote:
>> I will repeat my advice to just use random.SystemRandom.choice() instead
>> of trying to interpret the bytes from /dev/urandom directly.
>
> Out of curiosity:
>
> def gen_rand_string(length):
>      prng = random.SystemRandom()
>      chars = []
>      for i in range(length):
>          chars.append(prng.choice('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'))
>      return ''.join(chars)
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>      chardict = {}
>      for i in range(10000):
> ##        w = gen_rand_word(10)
>          w = gen_rand_string(10)
>          count_chars(chardict, w)
>      counts = list(chardict.items())
>      counts.sort(key = operator.itemgetter(1), reverse = True)
>      for char, count in counts:
>          print char, count
>
>
> s 3966
> d 3912
> g 3909
> h 3905
> a 3901
> u 3900
> q 3891
> m 3888
> k 3884
> b 3878
> x 3875
> v 3867
> w 3864
> y 3851
> l 3825
> z 3821
> c 3819
> e 3819
> r 3816
> n 3808
> o 3797
> f 3795
> t 3784
> p 3765
> j 3730
> i 3704
>
> Better, although still not perfect.

What would be perfect?  Surely one shouldn't be happy if all the
tallies come out exactly equal: that would be a blatant indication
of something very nonrandom going on.

The tallies given above give a chi-squared value smack in the
middle of the range expected for random sampling of a uniform
distribution (p = 0.505).  So the chi-squared metric of
goodness-of-fit to a unifom distribution says you're doing fine.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From python at rcn.com  Fri Feb 26 15:10:33 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:10:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: collections use __next__() in python 2.6?
References: <mailman.290.1267211354.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ee117ff6-415d-44c0-a7a7-a3abb4c53c19@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 10:08?am, Gary Robinson <gary... at me.com> wrote:
> The Python 2.6.4 docs for collections athttp://docs.python.org/library/collections.htmlsay that __next__() is an abstract method for the Iterable ABC. But my understanding is that __next__() isn't supposed to be used until Python 3. Also, I'm using the Mapping ABC, which inherits from Iterable, and it doesn't seem to work if I define __next__(); I am not seeing problems if I define next() instead.
>
> What am I missing?

It's a typo.
The abstract method is next().


Raymond


From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Fri Feb 26 15:17:43 2010
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 20:17:43 GMT
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xtyt72200.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<d8a401bf-6dfa-4e41-bea0-8cbf12f8d6e0@o3g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a0r8hyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<mailman.169.1267032213.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm3p7l$hr$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hm3rgu$kvd$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3t1f$qbj$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<hm3ti6$shs$1@dough.gmane.org> <hm3u3r$tr3$2@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.190.1267041740.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uqoj7F1ssU2@mid.individual.net>

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:02:07 +0100, mk <mrkafk at gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
> rand_str_SystemRandom_seeding
> mean 3845.15384615 std dev 46.2016419186
> l 3926 1.75 std devs away from mean
> y 3916 1.53 std devs away from mean
> d 3909 1.38 std devs away from mean
> a 3898 1.14 std devs away from mean
> p 3898 1.14 std devs away from mean
> c 3889 0.95 std devs away from mean
> u 3884 0.84 std devs away from mean
> j 3873 0.60 std devs away from mean
> n 3873 0.60 std devs away from mean
> w 3866 0.45 std devs away from mean
> x 3863 0.39 std devs away from mean
> r 3855 0.21 std devs away from mean
> m 3852 0.15 std devs away from mean
> b 3841 -0.09 std devs away from mean
> t 3835 -0.22 std devs away from mean
> o 3829 -0.35 std devs away from mean
> k 3827 -0.39 std devs away from mean
> i 3821 -0.52 std devs away from mean
> s 3812 -0.72 std devs away from mean
> q 3806 -0.85 std devs away from mean
> v 3803 -0.91 std devs away from mean
> g 3799 -1.00 std devs away from mean
> h 3793 -1.13 std devs away from mean
> e 3782 -1.37 std devs away from mean
> f 3766 -1.71 std devs away from mean
> z 3758 -1.89 std devs away from mean

Chi2 = 14.43, 25 d.f., prob = 0.046362.
The observed distribution is SIGNIFICANTLY CLOSER
to the uniform distribution than reasonable by chance.

> rand_str_SystemRandom_noseeding
> mean 3845.15384615 std dev 55.670522726
> i 3961 2.08 std devs away from mean
> r 3911 1.18 std devs away from mean
> e 3910 1.16 std devs away from mean
> m 3905 1.08 std devs away from mean
> a 3901 1.00 std devs away from mean
> u 3893 0.86 std devs away from mean
> t 3882 0.66 std devs away from mean
> w 3872 0.48 std devs away from mean
> s 3870 0.45 std devs away from mean
> c 3868 0.41 std devs away from mean
> n 3866 0.37 std devs away from mean
> q 3865 0.36 std devs away from mean
> k 3863 0.32 std devs away from mean
> y 3848 0.05 std devs away from mean
> j 3836 -0.16 std devs away from mean
> v 3830 -0.27 std devs away from mean
> f 3829 -0.29 std devs away from mean
> z 3829 -0.29 std devs away from mean
> g 3827 -0.33 std devs away from mean
> l 3818 -0.49 std devs away from mean
> b 3803 -0.76 std devs away from mean
> d 3803 -0.76 std devs away from mean
> p 3756 -1.60 std devs away from mean
> x 3755 -1.62 std devs away from mean
> h 3744 -1.82 std devs away from mean
> o 3729 -2.09 std devs away from mean

Chi2 = 20.96, 25 d.f., prob = 0.304944.
The observed distribution is not significantly different
from the uniform distribution.

> rand_str_custom
> mean 3517.15384615 std dev 40.7541336343
> i 3586 1.69 std devs away from mean
> a 3578 1.49 std devs away from mean
> e 3575 1.42 std devs away from mean
> m 3570 1.30 std devs away from mean
> q 3562 1.10 std devs away from mean
> c 3555 0.93 std devs away from mean
> g 3552 0.86 std devs away from mean
> w 3542 0.61 std devs away from mean
> p 3536 0.46 std devs away from mean
> x 3533 0.39 std devs away from mean
> s 3528 0.27 std devs away from mean
> o 3524 0.17 std devs away from mean
> d 3516 -0.03 std devs away from mean
> t 3515 -0.05 std devs away from mean
> h 3511 -0.15 std devs away from mean
> v 3502 -0.37 std devs away from mean
> z 3502 -0.37 std devs away from mean
> b 3500 -0.42 std devs away from mean
> f 3496 -0.52 std devs away from mean
> u 3492 -0.62 std devs away from mean
> l 3486 -0.76 std devs away from mean
> r 3478 -0.96 std devs away from mean
> n 3476 -1.01 std devs away from mean
> j 3451 -1.62 std devs away from mean
> k 3450 -1.65 std devs away from mean
> y 3430 -2.14 std devs away from mean

Chi2 = 12.28, 25 d.f., prob = 0.015815.
The observed distribution is SIGNIFICANTLY CLOSER
to the uniform distribution than reasonable by chance.

> It would appear that SystemRandom().choice is indeed best (in terms of 
> how much the counts stray from mean in std devs), but only after seeding 
> it with os.urandom.

I don't see any reason to worry about any of the three, except
perhaps that the first and last are surprisingly uniform.

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:27:06 2010
From: cmpython at gmail.com (CM)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:27:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c560c898-5dc8-421d-9f24-27bb64791b50@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 10:58?am, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data

How much is "lots"?

> that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?

What do you mean by more efficient?

> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

The SQLite datbase engine is built into Python 2.5 and up.  I have
heard on this list that there may be problems with it with Python 2.6
and up on Linux, but I've stayed with 2.5 and it works fine for me on
WinXP, Vista, and Linux.

You can use it as a disk-stored single database file, or an in-memory-
only database.  The SQLite website (http://www.sqlite.org/) claims it
is the "most widely deployed SQL database engine in the world.", for
what that's worth.

Have a look at this:
http://docs.python.org/library/sqlite3.html

Che



>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy



From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 26 15:44:44 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:44:44 +0100
Subject: lists of variables
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.22.1266722722.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9bs0$gdg$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Michael Pardee:
> I'm relatively new to python and I was very surprised by the following behavior:
> 
>>>> a=1
>>>> b=2

'a' refers to an object representing the integer 1.

Since 1 is an immutable value you can just as well think of it as 'a' containing 
the value 1, because a reference to an immutable value is for nearly all 
practical purposes indistinguishable from that value.

'b' refers to an object representing the integer 2, which, again, since integers 
are immutable, you can just as well think of as 'b' containing the value 2.


>>>> mylist=[a,b]

A 'list' object (an array) is constructed, and 'mylist' is set to refer to it. 
The array has two items. The first item is set to refer to same object as 'a' (a 
reference copy), the second item is set to refer to the same object as 'b'.

But since integers are immutable you can just as well think of it as a copying 
of the integer values.

Immutable values allow you to think of handling the values directly.


>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
>>>> a=3

This changes what 'a' refers to.

It does not change what the first array element refers to.


>>>> print mylist
> [1, 2]
> 
> Whoah!  Are python lists only for literals?

No, that's an irrelevant notion.


>  Nope:
> 
>>>> c={}
>>>> d={}

Here 'c' now refers to a dictionary object, which is mutable (can be changed).

And 'd' refers to another dictionary object.


>>>> mydlist=[c,d]
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {}]

A 'list' array object is constructed, and 'mydlist' is set to refer to it.

The first item in the array is set to refer to the same object as 'c' refers to, 
namely a mutable dictionary object (currently an empty dictionary).

The second item in the array is set to refer to the same object as 'd' refers 
to, namely a mutable dictionary object (currently an empty dictionary).

It's the same that happened earlier with the integers.

The only difference, but it's a significant one, is that now the referred to 
objects are mutable, that is, they can be changed.


>>>> c['x']=1

The dictionary object referred to by 'c' is updated to now have a key 'x' with 
associated value 1.

In more gory detail: the key is associated with a reference to an object 
representing 1, but again, since integer values are immutable you can think of 
this as a direct association with the value; the reference view of this 
association is mostly[1] only relevant when the referred to object is mutable.

Since the dictionary object that you're changing is referred to by both 'c' and 
the first item of 'mydlist', both of these reflect the change.


>>>> print mydlist
> [{'x': 1}, {}]

Yep.


> So it looks like variables in a list are stored as object references.

You mean items in a list are references to objects. Yes.


> This seems to confirm that:
> 
> mydlist[1]['y']=4
>>>> print mydlist
> [{}, {'y': 4}]

To check that you should instead have printed 'd', where you'd also see the 
change, since 'd' refers to the same dictionary object as 'mydlist[1]' does.


> So I figure my initial example doesn't work because if you assign a
> literal to something it is changing the object.

No, it has nothing to do with literals.

With the current language definition[2], as of Python 2.x and 3.x, it's very 
simple: assignments copy references, and that's all they do.

References to immutable objects allow you to think of values being copied 
around, which except for checking the identities of those objects (seldom 
relevant) yields the exact same conclusions about the effect of operations, but 
that's only because those immutable objects never change.

What you did above was to copy references to mutable objects, objects that can 
change.

Then the value-copying view breaks down.


>  But modifying a list
> or dict (as long as you don't re-construct it) does not change the
> object.

A simple way to think of this is copying references.

Objects are never copied by Python assignments.

The assignments only copy references.


> I can think of some ways to work around this, including using single
> element lists as "pointers":
> 
>>>> aa=[1]
>>>> bb=[2]
>>>> myplist=[aa,bb]
>>>> print myplist
> [[1], [2]]
>>>> aa[0]=3
>>>> print myplist
> [[3], [2]]

This is the same as your last example above, except that now you're using 'list' 
arrays as the referred to mutable objects, instead of 'dict' dictionary objects.


> But what would be "the python way" to accomplish "list of variables"
> functionality?

Possibly, if you think of assignments as copying references, you won't need that 
notion.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

Notes:
[1] The reference view can be relevant also for immutable objects in (at least) 
two cases. One is when the program logic depends on object identity, obtainable 
via the id function, which is just bad programming, but I mention it for 
completeness. The other is where you have a really large immutable object, such 
as in Python 2.x a very large 'long' value; then assignments would be 
inefficient if the value was actually copied, but since assignments only copy 
references in Python you can blissfully disregard the size of the object with 
respect to assignments. :-)
[2] Some wording in the language spec requires that an assignment behaves as if 
references were copied, including preservation of object identity. But object 
identity is almost never an issue for immutable objects, and a relaxation of 
that wording, for immutable values, might permit some optimization. So it just 
might change somewhen in the future, trading simplicity for some efficiency.


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 15:45:31 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:45:31 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
Message-ID: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>

How can I interrogate Python to find out where it is looking to find the PyQt4 
DLLs in a Windows installation?  Secondarily, how is this search path set?


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:51:34 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: any news from Python Magazine ?
Message-ID: <d284112a-5838-4246-9d47-7861cc6862aa@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Seems rather late...:
http://pythonmagazine.com/

"We'll be back, better than ever, on January 26th, 2010. "

Olivier


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Feb 26 15:52:00 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:52 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX

>> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
>> wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
>> though.

> I agree to that statement, I was surprised that mov AX,BX assumes that
> BX is the source, and AX the destination. I never programmed in
> assembler though.

You could think of it as a not bad use of the design principle "Clear The 
Simple Stuff Out Of The Way First".  Destinations are commonly a lot simpler 
than sources -- just as in Python assignment statements.  So you can tell 
more or less at a glance what's going to be changed, then get into the deep 
analysis to find what it's going to be changed to.

	Mel.




From patrick.just4fun at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:56:47 2010
From: patrick.just4fun at gmail.com (Patrick Sabin)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:56:47 +0100
Subject: Dictionary or =?windows-1252?Q?Database=97Please_advise?=
In-Reply-To: <6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B88358F.5000501@gmail.com>


> Shelve looks like an interesting option, but what might pose an issue
> is that I'm reading the data from a disk instead of memory.  I didn't
> mention this in my original post, but I was hoping that by using a
> database it would be more memory efficient in storing data in RAM so I
> wouldn't have to read from (or swap to/from) disk.

A database usually stores data on disk and not in RAM. However you could 
use sqlite with :memory:, so that it runs in RAM.

> Would using the
> shelve package make reading/writing data from disk faster since it is
> in a binary format?
> 
Faster than what? Shelve uses caching, so it is likely to be faster than 
a self-made solution. However, accessing disk is much slower than 
accessing RAM.

> Jeremy
- Patrick


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Fri Feb 26 16:07:15 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:07:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9d63$ev9$1@reader2.panix.com>

On 2010-02-26, Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanmichel at sequans.com> wrote:
> Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>>>     
>>>> [stuff]
>>>>       
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
>> wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
>> though.
>
> I agree to that statement, I was surprised that mov AX,BX assumes that 
> BX is the source, and AX the destination. I never programmed in 
> assembler though.

It depends on the assembler.  Some are dst, src and others are
the other way around.  Some vary depending on the instruction.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Sign my PETITION.
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From qtrimble at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:08:28 2010
From: qtrimble at gmail.com (qtrimble)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:08:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
Message-ID: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

I'm a python newbie but I do have some basic scripting experience.  I
need to take the line starting with "wer" and extract the year and day
of year from that string.  I want to be able to add the year and day
of year from the last line having "wer*" to the lines occurring in
between "wer*" lines.  Python seems suitable to do this and I'm fairly
certain I can eventually get this to work but I've been hit with a
very short time frame so I'm looking for any generous help.  The data
below is just a sample.  There are well over 500,000 lines that need
processed.

wer1999001
      31.2234      82.2367
      37.9535      82.3456
wer1999002
      31.2234      82.2367
      37.9535      82.3456


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 26 16:12:07 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:12:07 +0100
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
In-Reply-To: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm9df9$puu$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* qtrimble:
> I'm a python newbie but I do have some basic scripting experience.  I
> need to take the line starting with "wer" and extract the year and day
> of year from that string.  I want to be able to add the year and day
> of year from the last line having "wer*" to the lines occurring in
> between "wer*" lines.  Python seems suitable to do this and I'm fairly
> certain I can eventually get this to work but I've been hit with a
> very short time frame so I'm looking for any generous help.  The data
> below is just a sample.  There are well over 500,000 lines that need
> processed.
> 
> wer1999001
>       31.2234      82.2367
>       37.9535      82.3456
> wer1999002
>       31.2234      82.2367
>       37.9535      82.3456

<example>
   >>> line = "wer1999001"
   >>> line
   'wer1999001'
   >>> line[3:3+4]
   '1999'
   >>> line[7:7+3]
   '001'
   >>> _
</example>

Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:14:12 2010
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:14:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

On 26 f?v, 22:08, qtrimble <qtrim... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a python newbie but I do have some basic scripting experience. ?I
> need to take the line starting with "wer" and extract the year and day
> of year from that string. ?I want to be able to add the year and day
> of year from the last line having "wer*" to the lines occurring in
> between "wer*" lines. ?Python seems suitable to do this and I'm fairly
> certain I can eventually get this to work but I've been hit with a
> very short time frame so I'm looking for any generous help. ?The data
> below is just a sample. ?There are well over 500,000 lines that need
> processed.
>
> wer1999001
> ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
> wer1999002
> ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456

did you try something as a working basis ?

Olivier


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Feb 26 16:19:27 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:19:27 -0800
Subject: A more specific query ...
In-Reply-To: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002261319y7e71c958p7bf4f4be60902066@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Gib Bogle
<g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
> How can I interrogate Python to find out where it is looking to find the
> PyQt4 DLLs in a Windows installation?

import sys
print(sys.path)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From qtrimble at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:21:26 2010
From: qtrimble at gmail.com (qtrimble)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:21:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 4:14?pm, OdarR <olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 f?v, 22:08, qtrimble <qtrim... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm a python newbie but I do have some basic scripting experience. ?I
> > need to take the line starting with "wer" and extract the year and day
> > of year from that string. ?I want to be able to add the year and day
> > of year from the last line having "wer*" to the lines occurring in
> > between "wer*" lines. ?Python seems suitable to do this and I'm fairly
> > certain I can eventually get this to work but I've been hit with a
> > very short time frame so I'm looking for any generous help. ?The data
> > below is just a sample. ?There are well over 500,000 lines that need
> > processed.
>
> > wer1999001
> > ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> > ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
> > wer1999002
> > ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> > ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
>
> did you try something as a working basis ?
>
> Olivier

Yes but it's very simple -

fileIN = open(r"C:\testing.txt", "r")

for line in fileIN:
    year = line[3:7]
    day = line[7:10]
    print year, day

This is good since i can get the year and day of year into a variable
but I haven't gotten any further.


From pistacchio at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:26:44 2010
From: pistacchio at gmail.com (pistacchio)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:26:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: random.gauss: range
Message-ID: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

hi,
i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
number between a given range? like, from 0 to 20 with an average of
10? and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied
it, so mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.

thanks in advange


From lucat at despammed.com  Fri Feb 26 16:30:58 2010
From: lucat at despammed.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:30:58 +0100
Subject: Renaming identifiers & debugging
In-Reply-To: <mailman.267.1267194146.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <7unj59FuorU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.252.1267123143.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uo186FiejU1@mid.individual.net>	<mailman.254.1267127876.4577.python-list@python.org>	<7uog65F5vuU1@mid.individual.net>
	<mailman.267.1267194146.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7uqssjFmeeU1@mid.individual.net>

Roald de Vries wrote:
> I would suggest to do choose the same strategy as 'from __future__ 
> import ...' takes, which does similar things and limits them to the 
> module it is used in. I would be curious to hear about your results.
> 
> Kind regards, Roald

Hi,
well, i have thought on the issue and i think that i have found a 
solution that does not imply renaming the keywords. It mixes a bit the 
suggestions i got here and this is how.

My application will have a text editor (with, hopefully, code 
highlighting) a text-box to insert "instant" commands and a text-box for 
the output and a window for the "turtle".

With the "instant commands" you can insert little pieces of python code 
and see instantly their result both as a turtle movement or textual 
output. With the text-editor you can load/save/write whole python 
programs and execute or debug them step by step.

The way to track the code could use this technique 
http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2005/04/20/tracing_python_code.html 
which gives me exactly the number of line of code under execution and 
also stops the code until the function "treaceit" returns. This will 
allow me to insert breakpoints, execute the code line by line, and so on 
(or at least this is the theory).

Now. Since i get the number of the line i don't need anymore to have the 
language deal with translated keywords. The kid can write the code in 
his/her own language and the program will "translate it back to english" 
before passing them to the embedded python. When i save a source file i 
can save the english version and translate it "on the fly" when i load 
it. I can also intercept error codes and translate them as well, showing 
the kid only what i want him/her to see. So it would be completely 
transparent to the kid and it would notice it only by opening the source 
code via a different text-editor. In this way the files produced are 
100% python files and the kid can disable this feature if he doesn't 
like it. This will also allow me to translate the same piece of code in 
any language i want, with 0 effort and this way will allow kids of 
different nations exchange their code and have it working on their computer.

This seems a good idea to me, it reaches my points without breaking 
compatibility. The kid will see the language in his own language but the 
computer will actually work with the standard-python file.

Once i have this "ready" i can proceed to other steps and try to 
implement other ideas that i have (remember c-robots and p-robots?).

Bye,
   Luca


From g.bogle at auckland.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 16:41:20 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:41:20 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c1002261319y7e71c958p7bf4f4be60902066@mail.gmail.com>
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<50697b2c1002261319y7e71c958p7bf4f4be60902066@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B884000.5040900@auckland.ac.nz>

The point of my question was that sys.path is clearly not being used in this 
case.  When I start Python sys.path includes D:\python26\lib\site-packages which 
seems to be the Python default.  Using sys.path.append I have tried adding both 
D:\python26\lib\site-packages\PyQt4 and D:\python26\lib\site-packages\PyQt4\bin 
to the path, but this has no effect.  So far the only way I've found to make the 
PyQt4 DLLs visible to Python is by copying them from PyQt4\bin into PyQt4.

I've tried adding stuff to the Windows PATH, but that has no effect.

Gib

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Gib Bogle
> <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
>> How can I interrogate Python to find out where it is looking to find the
>> PyQt4 DLLs in a Windows installation?
> 
> import sys
> print(sys.path)
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 16:44:41 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:44:41 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.297.1267219170.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9fc8$grt$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Gib Bogle
> <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote:
>> How can I interrogate Python to find out where it is looking to find the
>> PyQt4 DLLs in a Windows installation?
> 
> import sys
> print(sys.path)

Note this thread:
http://www.mail-archive.com/pyqt at riverbankcomputing.com/msg20121.html

I'm starting to get the impression that Windows is the 'poor relation' in the 
Python family ...


From sanelson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:54:33 2010
From: sanelson at gmail.com (Stephen Nelson-Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:54:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Problems uploading to IIS using FTP over SSL
References: <mailman.266.1267193120.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <731c347e-df4d-4ff8-af82-22380abc8ad2@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 2:05?pm, Stephen Nelson-Smith <sanel... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,

I'm sorry - I hadn't realised that python-list ended up here as well.
Sincere apologies for double-posting.

S.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 16:56:55 2010
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:56:55 -0600
Subject: random.gauss: range
In-Reply-To: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm9g37$d0r$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2010-02-26 15:26 PM, pistacchio wrote:
> hi,
> i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
> number between a given range?

You don't. The Gaussian distribution has infinite range. The best you can do 
with the standard library is to keep sampling until you get a number inside your 
desired range. If you aren't careful about your choice of parameters, this could 
waste a lot of time.

> like, from 0 to 20 with an average of
> 10? and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied
> it, so mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.

Study it:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

mu is the mean, the location of the central peak. sigma is the standard 
deviation, which controls the width of the peak. Larger sigma means wider and 
shorter peak.

You may want another distribution, like random.betavariate():

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_distribution

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 26 16:59:16 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:59:16 +0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <4B881200.5060505@sequans.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4B881200.5060505@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <hm9g7r$dod$1@dough.gmane.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600 Tim Daneliuk <tundra at tundraware.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> On 2/24/2010 2:23 PM, Andreas Waldenburger wrote:
>>>    
>>>> [stuff]
>>>>       
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>>
>>>     
>> Well, there might be some confusion there as to what gets moved where,
>> wouldn't you say? I guess this goes away after a couple of months,
>> though.
>>   
> 
> I agree to that statement, I was surprised that mov AX,BX assumes that 
> BX is the source, and AX the destination. I never programmed in 
> assembler though.
> 
> JM

The obvious solution to this problem is to write the assembler code in 
your own way, and then use Python to change the code to the appropriate 
target.  Any of the solutions listed here would presumably suffice.
http://nedbatchelder.com/text/python-parsers.html

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From python at bdurham.com  Fri Feb 26 17:10:30 2010
From: python at bdurham.com (python at bdurham.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:10:30 -0500
Subject: How to determine if threads are active in an application?
Message-ID: <1267222230.24180.1362126901@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Is there technique to determine if threads are active in a Python
application?

The only technique I can think of is to check sys.modules for
thread and threading. But this will only show whether these
modules were imported - not whether there are actually background
threads running.

Motivation: We were debugging a customer's python application and
they had a module that was unknowningly (to both us and them)
creating threads in certain situations. This made our debugging
process more complicated because there were side effects
happening at unexpected times that we couldn't explain. The
module in question was supplied to us as a compiled module that
was considered fully tested by the customer. To prevent this
confusion in the future, we're looking for a way that we can
detect threads are active while we're debugging without having to
manually step through every line of code in every module to check
for unexpected thread creation.

Thanks,
Malcolm
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From ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand  Fri Feb 26 17:22:09 2010
From: ldo at geek-central.gen.new_zealand (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:22:09 +1300
Subject: Quoting quotes
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<bda4748c-49ec-4383-81c1-7baaae567180@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm9hih$mth$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

In message 
<bda4748c-49ec-4383-81c1-7baaae567180 at l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, William 
Lohrmann wrote:

> The best thing would be to backslash the single quote: print 'The play
> "All\'s Well That Ends Well"'

Backslash-type escapes are the most general solution to this type of 
problem. They?re also the easiest to apply automatically:

    for ch in input_string :
         if ch in troublesome_lot :
             output backslash + tame representation of ch
         else :
             output ch
         #end if
    #end for


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 26 17:25:59 2010
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:25:59 +0000
Subject: Six Minutes and fourty two seconds
In-Reply-To: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
References: <63Vhn.92$1n5.11@newsfe04.iad>
Message-ID: <hm9hpu$ja2$1@dough.gmane.org>

Tobiah wrote:
> Now that I use python, this is the amount of time 
> per day that I spend adding forgotten semicolons while
> debugging other languages.

You think that's bad?  I've spent hours today converting the J language 
that I don't dare mention to Python.  Once in a blue moon I came across 
a line of code that actually did something. The rest of it was 
boilerplate.  I'm never ever going to sin again, because if I do, I will 
be reincarnated as a J type, or worse still, I C(++) type.

Regards.

Mark Lawrence.

<duck>
No that's a swaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!
</duck>



From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 26 17:33:10 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:33:10 -0500
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
In-Reply-To: <22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B884C26.8010605@optimum.net>

On 2/26/2010 4:21 PM, qtrimble wrote:
>
> fileIN = open(r"C:\testing.txt", "r")
>
> for line in fileIN:
>      year = line[3:7]
>      day = line[7:10]
>      print year, day
>
> This is good since i can get the year and day of year into a variable
> but I haven't gotten any further.

That's an excellent start. Here's another hint ...

There are two kinds of lines in your input file:

* lines that begin with "wer"
* all other lines

So you need an if-else section to process the lines in the input file:

   if line.startswith("wer"):
       # use the contents of *line* to assign values
       # to variables *year* and *day*
       ...
   else:
       # use the current values of *year* and *day*
       # to process the numbers extracted from *line*

Most likely, you'll also need these functions:

* split() -- chop a string into pieces
* int() -- string-to-integer conversion

HTH,
John





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 26 17:38:58 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 14:38:58 -0800
Subject: Dictionary or =?windows-1252?Q?Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.296.1267217819.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9ii2$j2d$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.296.1267217819.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Patrick Sabin  <patrick.just4fun at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>A database usually stores data on disk and not in RAM. However you could 
>use sqlite with :memory:, so that it runs in RAM.

The OP wants transparent caching, so :memory: wouldn't work.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From luismgz at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 17:41:04 2010
From: luismgz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Luis_M=2E_Gonz=E1lez?=)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:41:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4bc22c5-0654-4e4b-b25f-12fe5257f68e@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 12:58?pm, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeremy

For small quantities of data, dicts are ok, but if your app
continually handles (and add) large quantities of data, you should use
a database.
You can start with sqlite (which is bundled with python) and it's much
easier to use than any other relational database out there.
You don't need to install anything, since it's not a database server.
You simply save your databases as files.
If you don't know sql (the standard language used to query databases),
I recomend this online tutorial: http://www.sqlcourse.com/

Good luck!
Luis


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 26 17:42:22 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 14:42:22 -0800
Subject: Dictionary or Database‹Please advise
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<roy-C4F98B.11395126022010@70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>
Message-ID: <hm9ioe$oto$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <roy-C4F98B.11395126022010 at 70-1-84-166.pools.spcsdns.net>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>
>Whatever database you pick, you're almost certainly going to end up having 
>to install it wherever you install your application.  There's no such thing 
>as a universally available database that you can expect to be available 
>everywhere.

...unless you use SQLite.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Feb 26 17:46:36 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Feb 2010 14:46:36 -0800
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hm9j0c$6jc$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c at s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Jeremy  <jlconlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
>the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
>using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
>before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
>I also need platform independence without having to install a database
>and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using.  Is there
>something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

If you're serious about needing both a disk-based backing store *and*
getting maximum use/performance from your RAM, you probably will need to
combine memcached with one of the other solutions offered.

But given your other requirement of not installing a DB, your best option
will certainly be SQLite.  You can use :memory: databases, but that will
require shuttling data to disk manually.  I suggest that you start with
plain SQLite and only worry if you prove (repeat, PROVE) that DB is your
bottleneck.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From phlip2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 17:52:49 2010
From: phlip2005 at gmail.com (Phlip)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:52:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please_advise?=
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6a1f738f-400b-458f-80f6-ac4cc097f2c2@f17g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 7:58?am, Jeremy <jlcon... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries. ?However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem. ?I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before. ?Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?
> I also need platform independence without having to install a database
> and Python interface on all the platforms I'll be using. ?Is there
> something built-in to Python that will allow me to do this?

If you had wall-to-wall unit tests, you could swap the database in
incrementally ("Deprecation Refactor").

You would just add one database table, switch one client of one
dictionary to use that table, pass all the tests, and integrate.
Repeat until nobody uses the dicts, then trivially retire them.

If you don't have unit tests, then you have a bigger problem than
memory requirements. (You can throw $50 hardware at that!)

--
  Phlip
  http://penbird.tumblr.com/


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 26 18:19:24 2010
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:19:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> 
	<22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <121bb934-6d62-482a-a5c2-848668ce237d@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 2:21?pm, qtrimble <qtrim... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 26, 4:14?pm, OdarR <olivier.da... at gmail.com> wrote:
> <snip>
> > > below is just a sample. ?There are well over 500,000 lines that need
> > > processed.
>
> > > wer1999001
> > > ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> > > ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
> > > wer1999002
> > > ? ? ? 31.2234 ? ? ?82.2367
> > > ? ? ? 37.9535 ? ? ?82.3456
>
> > did you try something as a working basis ?
>
> > Olivier
>
> Yes but it's very simple -
>
> fileIN = open(r"C:\testing.txt", "r")
>
> for line in fileIN:
> ? ? year = line[3:7]
> ? ? day = line[7:10]
> ? ? print year, day
>
> This is good since i can get the year and day of year into a variable
> but I haven't gotten any further.

How about something like (untested):

  for line in fileIN:
       if line.startswith ("wer"):
           year = line[3:7]
           day = line[7:10]
	else:
	   print "%s-%s %s" % (year, day, line.strip())

You can adjust the details as needed...


From maygeo at netplus.ch  Fri Feb 26 18:32:27 2010
From: maygeo at netplus.ch (Raphael Mayoraz)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:27 -0800
Subject: Variable definition
Message-ID: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>

Hello,

I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common 
prefix.
Something like this:

varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
    'myPrefix' + key = value

I know this is illegal, but there must be a trick somewhere.

Thanks,

Raphael





From aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 18:48:56 2010
From: aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:48:56 -0600
Subject: loop through each line in a text file
In-Reply-To: <4B884C26.8010605@optimum.net>
References: <3484373a-2045-428e-9040-abdfecd95e25@f35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<07a7edd4-9e72-4425-865b-f475c2050ea7@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> 
	<22084c82-0f69-46b0-883f-ef1d3c47d792@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> 
	<4B884C26.8010605@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002261548v2ee92dfgb004df33d8e7f564@mail.gmail.com>

I smell homework
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Feb 26 18:58:54 2010
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:58:54 +1100
Subject: Get dosctring without import
References: <120f4b93-e7d0-4f58-9f3b-0490be01cdd9@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<87bpfc46ee.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<76cde733-17b2-41ae-8e59-734e4c5d6fd6@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<87635k41kd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<8777b981-6ca8-49b2-93d8-4b37b2f99b79@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87pr3r35xd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Joan Miller <peloko45 at gmail.com> writes:

> On 26 feb, 12:35, Ben Finney <ben+pyt... at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> > A common convention is to have a ?README? text file, written in
> > reStructuredText for rendering to various output formats as part of
> > the documentation. You could then have the ?setup.py? program read
> > the contents of that file and use it (or a slice of it) for the
> > package description.
> I get the 'README.txt' file to get the long description but I use the
> docstring because each package should include a short desciption about
> it.

I keep both in the same file:

===== README =====
FooBar, a library for spangulation.

The FooBar library provides thribbles which can be
easily frobnicated for spangulation in a sntandard manner.

Other spangulation libraries are far less weebly than this
one, which is the choice of discerning grognards everywhere.
=====

Then, the description fields are derived by splitting the file's
contents on the first paragraph break:

=====
from distutils.core import setup

readme_file = open("README")

short_description, long_description = (
    d.strip()
    for d in readme_file.read().split(u'\n\n', 1))

setup(
    # ?
    description=short_description,
    long_description=long_description,
    # ?
    )
=====

-- 
 \      ?Some forms of reality are so horrible we refuse to face them, |
  `\     unless we are trapped into it by comedy. To label any subject |
_o__)        unsuitable for comedy is to admit defeat.? ?Peter Sellers |
Ben Finney


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 19:00:32 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:00:32 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.297.1267219170.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4B8860A0.6050600@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz>

The PyQt4 problem results from having copies of the Qt DLLs in directories that 
are in the PATH, as Doug Bell discovered.  In my case I have two programs that 
use Qt, AMD CodeAnalyst and Matlab.  If I rename BOTH these directories I can 
import the PyQt4 modules.

Since this behaviour did not occur with Python 2.5 and the previous PyQt I was 
using (4.5, I think), it seems that something has changed either with Python 2.6 
or with PyQt 4.7.

It would be very nice to learn how to fix this without renaming directories, 
since I use Matlab frequently.

Gib


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Fri Feb 26 19:01:11 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:01:11 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<mailman.297.1267219170.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9nc7$52n$2@speranza.aioe.org>

The PyQt4 problem results from having copies of the Qt DLLs in directories that 
are in the PATH, as Doug Bell discovered.  In my case I have two programs that 
use Qt, AMD CodeAnalyst and Matlab.  If I rename BOTH these directories I can 
import the PyQt4 modules.

Since this behaviour did not occur with Python 2.5 and the previous PyQt I was 
using (4.5, I think), it seems that something has changed either with Python 2.6 
or with PyQt 4.7.

It would be very nice to learn how to fix this without renaming directories, 
since I use Matlab frequently.

Gib


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 19:02:40 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 00:02:40 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> Reminiscent of:
> 
> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX


That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking people 
would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.


> And, yes, I've actually seen that as well as:
> 
> ; This is a comment

Which might be a good comment, if it were part of an unfamiliar file 
format where the reader were not expected to know what is a comment and 
what is significant. For instance, I've seen similar comments at the top 
of config files.


However, I'm pretty sure that a comment like this is inexcusable:


x = x + 1  # Add one to x.



-- 
Steven


From routb3d at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:06:56 2010
From: routb3d at gmail.com (Routb3d)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:06:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
Message-ID: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7 pro.

I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting the
files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still returns
this.. Any ideas?

>>> import sys
>>> sys.path
['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib', 'C:\\Program Files\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
\Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-
win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\
\site-packages']
>>> import cv

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
    import cv
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Fri Feb 26 19:15:22 2010
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:15:22 -0000
Subject: Variable definition
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <op.u8rezwpta8ncjz@gnudebst>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:32:27 -0000, Raphael Mayoraz <maygeo at netplus.ch>  
wrote:

> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common  
> prefix.

Why?

No seriously, how do you think this is going to solve whatever problem you  
clearly think it will solve?

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste Herder to the Masses


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 26 19:22:24 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:22:24 +0100
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9ok3$2rr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Raphael Mayoraz:
> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common 
> prefix.
> Something like this:
> 
> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>    'myPrefix' + key = value
> 
> I know this is illegal, but there must be a trick somewhere.

In general you'll IMHO be better off with the variables as attributes of an object.

If you want them to be modifiable then you can do

   class Whatever: pass

   myPrefix = Whatever()
   myPrefix.a = 'a'
   myPrefix.b = 'b'
   myPrefix.c = 'c'

If you want them to be sort of constants (weasel words intentional) then you 
might do (Python 3.x)  --  disclaimer: off-the-cuff & I'm not sure if that 
function is called 'namedtuple' but I think you'll find it anyway  --

   import collections

   Color = namedtuple( "Color", "red green blue" )
   myPrefix = Color( 'a', 'b', 'c' )


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:30:54 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:30:54 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <201002261630.54323.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
> I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7 pro.
> 
> I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting the
> files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still returns
> this.. Any ideas?

Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's certainly not in 
the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python 2.6.4...

> 
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.path
> 
> ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib', 'C:\\Program Files\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
> \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
> 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-
> win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\
> \site-packages']
> 
> >>> import cv
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
>     import cv
> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----
Rami Chowdhury
"Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's Saying
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:41:43 2010
From: aleksandr.goretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:41:43 -0600
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <hm9ok3$2rr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<hm9ok3$2rr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002261641y38b53cdatafcdc61ef52e487a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Alf P. Steinbach <alfps at start.no> wrote:

> * Raphael Mayoraz:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
>> prefix.
>> Something like this:
>>
>> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
>> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>>   'myPrefix' + key = value
>>
>> I know this is illegal, but there must be a trick somewhere.
>>
>
> In general you'll IMHO be better off with the variables as attributes of an
> object.
>
> If you want them to be modifiable then you can do
>
>  class Whatever: pass
>
>  myPrefix = Whatever()
>  myPrefix.a = 'a'
>  myPrefix.b = 'b'
>  myPrefix.c = 'c'
>
> If you want them to be sort of constants (weasel words intentional) then
> you might do (Python 3.x)  --  disclaimer: off-the-cuff & I'm not sure if
> that function is called 'namedtuple' but I think you'll find it anyway  --
>
>  import collections
>
>  Color = namedtuple( "Color", "red green blue" )
>  myPrefix = Color( 'a', 'b', 'c' )
>
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

you can use setattr to do your bidding for setting variable like this. That
is how I've been able to do it. Not sure if its the best solution, but it is
a solution. I just don't know how to use setattr without it being in a
class.

>>> class stuff(object):
...  def __init__(self):
...   pass
...  def duuit(self,abc):
...   for k,v in abc.items():
...    setattr(self,"prefix_%s"%k,v)
...
>>> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
>>> abc=stuff()
>>> abc.duuit(varDic)
>>> dir(abc)
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__format__',
'__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__',
'__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__',
'__str__', '__subclasshook__', '__weakref__', 'duuit', 'prefix_blue',
'prefix_green', 'prefix_red']
>>>

-Alex Goretoy
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From pistacchio at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:46:10 2010
From: pistacchio at gmail.com (pistacchio)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:46:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: random.gauss: range
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.298.1267221429.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7a49b554-2b53-4878-8150-89fafba210e9@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

thanks, betadistribute did the work... and i learned a new thing!

On 26 Feb, 22:56, Robert Kern <robert.k...gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2010-02-26 15:26 PM, pistacchio wrote:
>
> > hi,
> > i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
> > number between a given range?
>
> You don't. The Gaussian distribution has infinite range. The best you can do
> with the standard library is to keep sampling until you get a number inside your
> desired range. If you aren't careful about your choice of parameters, this could
> waste a lot of time.
>
> > like, from 0 to 20 with an average of
> > 10? and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied
> > it, so mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.
>
> Study it:
>
> ? ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution
>
> mu is the mean, the location of the central peak. sigma is the standard
> deviation, which controls the width of the peak. Larger sigma means wider and
> shorter peak.
>
> You may want another distribution, like random.betavariate():
>
> ? ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_distribution
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
> ? that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
> ? an underlying truth."
> ? ?-- Umberto Eco



From python at rcn.com  Fri Feb 26 19:46:21 2010
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:46:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: random.gauss: range
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1cb0bf77-a539-41ff-89f3-b55e423a1b32@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 1:26?pm, pistacchio <pistacc... at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi,
> i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
> number between a given range? like, from 0 to 20 with an average of
> 10? and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied
> it, so mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.

Try random.randrange() and random.triangular().
They are both easy to use and do not require you
to enter parameters that you don't understand.

FWIW, mu and sigma refer to the average and standard deviation
of a normal distribution.


Raymond



From john at castleamber.com  Fri Feb 26 19:47:26 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:47:26 -0600
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>
>> Reminiscent of:
>> 
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>
>
> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking people 
> would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.

Eh? It's a bad comment, it's of the same quality as:

> x = x + 1  # Add one to x.

You think the former is good because (I guess) you are not familiar with
the language. The same reason why beginners comment their code like in
your example.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 26 19:54:53 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:54:53 +0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B886D5D.4080908@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> 
>> Reminiscent of:
>>
>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
> 
> 
> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking people 
> would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
> 
[snip]
If you're reading and/or writing at assembly language level then you
should know what it does anyway!

The assembly languages of virtually all the processors that I've come
across put the destination first, eg. x86:

     SUB AX,BX
     MOV AX,BX

which does:

     AX := AX - BX
     AX := BX

and ARM:

     SUB R0,R1,R2
     MOV R0,R1

which does:

     R0 := R1 - R2
     R0 := R1

The only assembly language I know of which does it the other way round
is 68x00:

     SUB D0,D1
     MOVE D0,D1

which does:

     D1 := D1 - D0
     D1 := D0

I know which I prefer! :-)


From alfps at start.no  Fri Feb 26 20:10:26 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:10:26 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.308.1267232090.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.308.1267232090.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hm9re5$ih8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* MRAB:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>>
>> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking 
>> people would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
>>
> [snip]
> If you're reading and/or writing at assembly language level then you
> should know what it does anyway!
> 
> The assembly languages of virtually all the processors that I've come
> across put the destination first, eg. x86:
> 
>     SUB AX,BX
>     MOV AX,BX
> 
> which does:
> 
>     AX := AX - BX
>     AX := BX
> 

A bit off-topic, but there are /two/ main syntaxes for x86 assembly, namely 
Intel syntax (the above syntax, used by MASM, old TASM etc.) and AT&T syntax.


<example>
C:\test> echo int main(){ int x = 42; } >blah.cpp

C:\test> g++ blah.cpp -S -masm=intel

C:\test> type blah.s | find "42"
         mov     DWORD PTR [ebp-4], 42

C:\test> g++ blah.cpp -S -masm=att

C:\test> type blah.s | find "42"
         movl    $42, -4(%ebp)

C:\test> _
</example>


Personally I find the AT&T syntax very hard to read.

All those percent signs hurt my eyes...




> and ARM:
> 
>     SUB R0,R1,R2
>     MOV R0,R1
> 
> which does:
> 
>     R0 := R1 - R2
>     R0 := R1
> 
> The only assembly language I know of which does it the other way round
> is 68x00:
> 
>     SUB D0,D1
>     MOVE D0,D1
> 
> which does:
> 
>     D1 := D1 - D0
>     D1 := D0
> 
> I know which I prefer! :-)

Cheers,

- Alf


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 26 20:15:16 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:15:16 -0500
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>
References: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>
Message-ID: <4B887224.2080805@optimum.net>

On 2/26/2010 6:32 PM, Raphael Mayoraz wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
> prefix.
> Something like this:
>
> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
> 'myPrefix' + key = value
>

No trick, just swap a new key-value pair for each existing pair:

   for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
       varDic[myPrefix + key] = value
       del varDict[key]

Just make sure that *myPrefix* isn't an empty string!

-John


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 21:12:23 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:12:23 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <dcc3ec881002261742p363dc9a2w2811ea472a4411@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<201002261630.54323.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261742p363dc9a2w2811ea472a4411@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002261812.23265.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Friday 26 February 2010 17:42:04 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I tried putting the files from
> 
>  C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib
> 
> too
> 
> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages
> 
> and Python still wont import..
> 
> I adjusted the environment variables to try and import maya.standalone but
> no dice on that either.
> 

Sorry, you've still not told me where you expect it to be. Could you let us 
know what .py files you can see in C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib ?

> 
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rami Chowdhury 
<rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
> > On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
> > > I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7 pro.
> > > 
> > > I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting the
> > > files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still returns
> > > this.. Any ideas?
> > 
> > Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's certainly not
> > in
> > the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python 2.6.4...
> > 
> > > >>> import sys
> > > >>> sys.path
> > > 
> > > ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib', 'C:\\Program Files\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
> > > \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
> > > 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-
> > > win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\
> > > \site-packages']
> > > 
> > > >>> import cv
> > > 
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
> > >   
> > >     import cv
> > > 
> > > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> > 
> > ----
> > Rami Chowdhury
> > "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's
> > Saying 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


----
Rami Chowdhury
"Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Fri Feb 26 21:16:25 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:16:25 -0800
Subject: Dictionary or =?utf-8?Q?Database=E2=80=94Please?= advise
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xeik7h18m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jeremy <jlconlin at gmail.com> writes:
> I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
> the memory requirements are becoming a problem.  I am considering
> using a database of some sorts instead, but I have never used them
> before.  Would a database be more memory efficient than a dictionary?

What are you trying to do?  Yes, a database would let you use disk
instead of ram, but the slowdown might be intolerable depending on the
access pattern.  You really have to consider what the whole application
is up to, and what the database is doing for you.  It might be imposing
a high overhead to create benefits (e.g. transaction isolation) that
you're not actually using.

Somehow I've managed to do a lot of programming on large datasets
without ever using databases very much.  I'm not sure that's a good
thing; but anyway, a lot of times you can do better with externally
sorted flat files, near-line search engines, etc. than you can with
databases.

If the size of your data is fixed or is not growing too fast, and it's
larger than your computer's memory by just a moderate amount (e.g. you
have a 2GB computer and 3GB of data), the simplest approach may be to
just buy a few more ram modules and put them in your computer.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 21:21:04 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 02:21:04 GMT
Subject: =?windows-1251?q?Re=3A_Dictionary_or_Database=97Please?= advise
References: <891a98fa-c398-455a-981f-bf72af77256c@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.278.1267201795.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<6e36f40e-eb33-4038-9896-5fb1cceb2a32@q2g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.296.1267217819.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b888190$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:56:47 +0100, Patrick Sabin wrote:

>> Shelve looks like an interesting option, but what might pose an issue
>> is that I'm reading the data from a disk instead of memory.  I didn't
>> mention this in my original post, but I was hoping that by using a
>> database it would be more memory efficient in storing data in RAM so I
>> wouldn't have to read from (or swap to/from) disk.
> 
> A database usually stores data on disk and not in RAM. However you could
> use sqlite with :memory:, so that it runs in RAM.

The OP started this thread with:

"I have lots of data that I currently store in dictionaries.  However,
the memory requirements are becoming a problem."

So I'm amused that he thinks the solution to running out of memory is to 
run the heavy overhead of a database entirely in memory, instead of 
lightweight dicts :)

My advice is, first try to optimize your use of dicts. Are you holding 
onto large numbers of big dicts that you don't need? Are you making 
unnecessary copies? If so, fix your algorithms.

If you can't optimize the dicts anymore, then move to a proper database. 
Don't worry about whether it is on-disk or not, databases tend to be 
pretty fast regardless, and it is better to run your application a little 
bit more slowly than to not run it at all because it ran out of memory 
halfway through processing the data.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 21:52:54 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 02:52:54 GMT
Subject: random.gauss: range
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b888905$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:26:44 -0800, pistacchio wrote:

> hi,
> i'm trying the random.gauss function. can anyone explain how to get a
> number between a given range? like, from 0 to 20 with an average of 10?

That's not what a Gaussian distribution does. It has an infinite range. 
Are you sure you want a Gaussian, and not a uniform distribution or a 
triangular distribution?

You could pin the values to the appropriate range:

def pinned_gaussian(a, b, mu, sigma):
    """Return a Gaussian random number pinned to [a, b]."""
    return min(b, max(a, random.gauss(mu, sigma)))

but that will distort the randomness slightly: you will have a slight 
excess of values equal to a and b than you otherwise might expect. You 
might not care, though, particularly if the sigma is very small relative 
to the minimum and maximum you want.

Alternatively, you could use this approach:

def truncated_gauss(a, b, mu, sigma):
    """Return a random number from a truncated Gaussian distribution."""
    while 1:
        x = random.gauss(mu, sigma)
        if a <= x <= b:
            return x



> and how to determine the "steep" of the curve? i've never studied it, so
> mu and sigma don't really tell me a thing.

mu is the average -- in your example above, mu would be 10.

sigma is the standard deviation of the random variable. It tells you how 
much the random variable actually varies: if sigma is close to zero, most 
of the numbers will be close to mu and the graph will look like a spike; 
if sigma is large, it will be very broad and flat.

Statistically, the following rules apply:

68% of the numbers will be between (mu - sigma) and (mu + sigma).
95% of the numbers will be between (mu - 2*sigma) and (mu + 2*sigma).
99.7% of the numbers will be between (mu - 3*sigma) and (mu + 3*sigma).

(the percentages are approximate, not exact). So you could get a 
reasonable approximation to a normal distribution truncated between 0 and 
20 with:

truncated_gauss(0, 20, 10, 10.0/3)




-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 22:15:47 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 03:15:47 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:47:26 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
> 
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>
>>> Reminiscent of:
>>> 
>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>
>>
>> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking
>> people would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
> 
> Eh? It's a bad comment, it's of the same quality as:
> 
>> x = x + 1  # Add one to x.
> 
> You think the former is good because (I guess) you are not familiar with
> the language. The same reason why beginners comment their code like in
> your example.

Well, in the second example, x+1 could not possibly be anything other 
than adding one to x in any language, programming or human: using "+" for 
addition is close enough to universal these days. Unless x is some fancy 
object that plays operator overloading tricks, then what else could x+1 
be?

On the other hand, mv AX,BX is not only ambiguous but in the example 
given the move occurs in the counter-intuitive direction, at least for 
English-speakers and probably most speakers of European languages. So 
even an experienced coder might like the reminder that this specific 
assembly language moves things backwards compared to his intuition, or 
compared to the way the rest of the language does things.

Admittedly an experienced coder might be so used to that syntax that he 
no longer needs the comment, in which case he might find it unnecessary. 
But comments aren't written for the benefit of people who find it 
obvious. They're written for everyone else. ANY comment could be 
dismissed as unnecessary for somebody who is so familiar with the 
language and code in question that it is obvious what it is doing.

Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions according 
to the arguments. So you might have:

mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX
mv @CX,DX ; move contents of @CX into DX

Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something like 
that.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 22:20:18 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 03:20:18 GMT
Subject: Variable definition
References: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>
	<mailman.309.1267233298.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b888f72$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:15:16 -0500, John Posner wrote:

> On 2/26/2010 6:32 PM, Raphael Mayoraz wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
>> prefix.
>> Something like this:
>>
>> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'} for key, value in
>> varDic.iteritems(): 'myPrefix' + key = value
>>
>>
> No trick, just swap a new key-value pair for each existing pair:
> 
>    for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>        varDic[myPrefix + key] = value
>        del varDict[key]
> 
> Just make sure that *myPrefix* isn't an empty string!

How does that answer the original poster's question?

Admittedly, your solution is the Right Way To Do It, but what the OP 
wants is to go from a dict {'spam': 42} to a named variable myPrefixspam 
= 42, which is a totally bogus thing to do, but incredibly common among 
n00bs and refugees from horrible languages that allow that sort of 
abomination.



-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Feb 26 22:25:47 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:25:47 +0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8890BB.8080902@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:47:26 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
>>
>>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>>
>>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>>
>>> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking
>>> people would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
>> Eh? It's a bad comment, it's of the same quality as:
>>
>>> x = x + 1  # Add one to x.
>> You think the former is good because (I guess) you are not familiar with
>> the language. The same reason why beginners comment their code like in
>> your example.
> 
> Well, in the second example, x+1 could not possibly be anything other 
> than adding one to x in any language, programming or human: using "+" for 
> addition is close enough to universal these days. Unless x is some fancy 
> object that plays operator overloading tricks, then what else could x+1 
> be?
> 
> On the other hand, mv AX,BX is not only ambiguous but in the example 
> given the move occurs in the counter-intuitive direction, at least for 
> English-speakers and probably most speakers of European languages. So 
> even an experienced coder might like the reminder that this specific 
> assembly language moves things backwards compared to his intuition, or 
> compared to the way the rest of the language does things.
> 
> Admittedly an experienced coder might be so used to that syntax that he 
> no longer needs the comment, in which case he might find it unnecessary. 
> But comments aren't written for the benefit of people who find it 
> obvious. They're written for everyone else. ANY comment could be 
> dismissed as unnecessary for somebody who is so familiar with the 
> language and code in question that it is obvious what it is doing.
> 
> Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions according 
> to the arguments. So you might have:
> 
> mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX
> mv @CX,DX ; move contents of @CX into DX
> 
> Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something like 
> that.
> 
Ah, yes, "apparently". That's like saying "someone down the pub told
me...". ;-)


From jjposner at optimum.net  Fri Feb 26 22:33:53 2010
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:33:53 -0500
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <4b888f72$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4B885A0B.9040705@netplus.ch>	<mailman.309.1267233298.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b888f72$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B8892A1.7020902@optimum.net>

On 2/26/2010 10:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:15:16 -0500, John Posner wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2010 6:32 PM, Raphael Mayoraz wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
>>> prefix.
>>> Something like this:
>>>
>>> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'} for key, value in
>>> varDic.iteritems(): 'myPrefix' + key = value
>>>
>>>
>> No trick, just swap a new key-value pair for each existing pair:
>>
>>     for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>>         varDic[myPrefix + key] = value
>>         del varDict[key]
>>
>> Just make sure that *myPrefix* isn't an empty string!
>
> How does that answer the original poster's question?
>
> Admittedly, your solution is the Right Way To Do It, but what the OP
> wants is to go from a dict {'spam': 42} to a named variable myPrefixspam
> = 42, which is a totally bogus thing to do, but incredibly common among
> n00bs and refugees from horrible languages that allow that sort of
> abomination.

Yup, I misinterpreted the OP's intent. I guess my mind just couldn't 
encompass the enormity of his intended transgression.

-John



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 22:33:57 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 03:33:57 GMT
Subject: Variable definition
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b8892a5$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:32:27 -0800, Raphael Mayoraz wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to define variables with some specific name that has a common
> prefix.
> Something like this:
> 
> varDic = {'red': 'a', 'green': 'b', 'blue': 'c'}
> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>     'myPrefix' + key = value
> 
> I know this is illegal, but there must be a trick somewhere.


The Right answer is:

Don't do that. How can you use a variable without knowing its name?

Suppose you do this:

for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
    'myPrefix_' + key = value

and then later you want:

print myPrefix_blue

But hang on. How could you possibly know it is called myPrefix_blue and 
not myPrefix_cyan or myPrefix_turquoise?

You can't possibly know, so in general defining a named variable is 
useless. What you want instead is:

some_colour = 'blue'  # get this at runtime
print varDic[some_colour]

You don't even need the myPrefix, but if you really want it:

for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
    varDic['myPrefix_' + key] = value
    del varDic[key]

some_colour = 'blue'  # get this at runtime
print varDic['myPrefix_' + some_colour]

or any one of a million variations on this idea.

For some very, very rare situations you might need to programatically 
define variables. The right way to do that is:

globals()['myPrefix_turquoise'] = 42

or 

setattr(module, 'myPrefix_turquoise'] = 42

or even:

exec "'myPrefix_turquoise' = 42"

but if you are thinking of using that last one with data coming from an 
untrusted user (and nearly all users are untrusted!), then DON'T. That is 
a huge security hole. And it's also very slow.



-- 
Steven


From tundra at tundraware.com  Fri Feb 26 22:51:17 2010
From: tundra at tundraware.com (Tim Daneliuk)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:51:17 -0600
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iehm57-m7l1.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>

On 2/26/2010 9:25 PM, MRAB wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:47:26 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Reminiscent of:
>>>>>
>>>>> mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
>>>>
>>>> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking
>>>> people would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.
>>> Eh? It's a bad comment, it's of the same quality as:
>>>
>>>> x = x + 1  # Add one to x.
>>> You think the former is good because (I guess) you are not familiar with
>>> the language. The same reason why beginners comment their code like in
>>> your example.
>>
>> Well, in the second example, x+1 could not possibly be anything other
>> than adding one to x in any language, programming or human: using "+"
>> for addition is close enough to universal these days. Unless x is some
>> fancy object that plays operator overloading tricks, then what else
>> could x+1 be?
>>
>> On the other hand, mv AX,BX is not only ambiguous but in the example
>> given the move occurs in the counter-intuitive direction, at least for
>> English-speakers and probably most speakers of European languages. So
>> even an experienced coder might like the reminder that this specific
>> assembly language moves things backwards compared to his intuition, or
>> compared to the way the rest of the language does things.
>>
>> Admittedly an experienced coder might be so used to that syntax that
>> he no longer needs the comment, in which case he might find it
>> unnecessary. But comments aren't written for the benefit of people who
>> find it obvious. They're written for everyone else. ANY comment could
>> be dismissed as unnecessary for somebody who is so familiar with the
>> language and code in question that it is obvious what it is doing.
>>
>> Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions
>> according to the arguments. So you might have:
>>
>> mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX
>> mv @CX,DX ; move contents of @CX into DX
>>
>> Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something
>> like that.
>>
> Ah, yes, "apparently". That's like saying "someone down the pub told
> me...". ;-)

It's interesting that my silly example raised this amount of
commentary. My general view about all this is that comments should be
written on the assumption that the reader knows the language in
question. It is not the purpose of a comment to provide a tutorial on
the language (unless you're actually writing a tutorial program).

Rather, a comment should illuminate the *logic* of the activity by
either amplifying, clarifying, or otherwise providing a rationale' for
the code in question. Demanding that programmers provide comments
about the syntax and semantics of the language is - to me - absurd.

For example, some time ago, I was doing some programming with embedded
PIC-based hardware. The comments for that code are intended to
illuminate how the *hardware* was being exploited, not how to use PIC
asm:

...

scan:
		incf	current_col,F	; pickup next column to scan
		movlw	MAX_COL+1	; if current_col > MAX_COL then
		subwf	current_col,W   ; we just did last column, so start over
		btfss	STATUS,Z	; zero means we need to start over
		goto	key_scan	; nope, go look for key hits
		clrf	current_col	; yes, reinit column counter
		goto	scan

...



The only possible exception to this I can think of is when there is
some non-obvious side-effect (i.e. language and/or hardware is
"misfeatured"):

                mov 	A,B    ; Moving A into B also will also arm
                               ; the nuclear warhead if the CPU is
                               ; hotter than 110C


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk     tundra at tundraware.com
PGP Key:         http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 22:53:53 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:53:53 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <dcc3ec881002261947s4892c694g1a0e514371a81479@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<201002261630.54323.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261742p363dc9a2w2811ea472a4411@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002261812.23265.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261947s4892c694g1a0e514371a81479@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06689ACA-B76B-4558-B121-A175CEB50C24@gmail.com>



On Feb 26, 2010, at 19:47 , Isaiah Coberly wrote:

> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages
> 
> no .py files here..
> 
> cv.pyd
> libcv.dll.a
> 
> 
> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages\opencv
> 
> _init_.py
> matlan_syntax.py
> adaptors.py
> cv.py
> 

It looks to me like 'opencv' is structured as a package, from which you should be able to import and work with Python libraries. Have you tried putting the above site-packages directory in sys.path:

import sys; sys.path.append('C:\\OpenCV2.0\\Python2.6\\Lib\\site-packages')

and then doing:

from opencv import cv

?

> Did I still need to compile this even though it was a win 32 installer?

I don't think so, no -- AFAIK the .pyd files are compiled CPython extension modules, so it looks like they're all compiled for you.

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday 26 February 2010 17:42:04 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> > Thanks for the reply.
> >
> > I tried putting the files from
> >
> >  C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib
> >
> > too
> >
> > C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages
> >
> > and Python still wont import..
> >
> > I adjusted the environment variables to try and import maya.standalone but
> > no dice on that either.
> >
> 
> Sorry, you've still not told me where you expect it to be. Could you let us
> know what .py files you can see in C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib ?
> 
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
> > > On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
> > > > I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7 pro.
> > > >
> > > > I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting the
> > > > files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still returns
> > > > this.. Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's certainly not
> > > in
> > > the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python 2.6.4...
> > >
> > > > >>> import sys
> > > > >>> sys.path
> > > >
> > > > ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib', 'C:\\Program Files\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
> > > > \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
> > > > 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\plat-
> > > > win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\
> > > > \site-packages']
> > > >
> > > > >>> import cv
> > > >
> > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > > >   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
> > > >
> > > >     import cv
> > > >
> > > > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Rami Chowdhury
> > > "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's
> > > Saying 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)
> 
> 
> ----
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)
> 

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From darcy at druid.net  Fri Feb 26 23:02:35 2010
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:02:35 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20100226230235.fcbd4011.darcy@druid.net>

On 27 Feb 2010 00:02:40 GMT
Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:09:36 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> > mov  AX,BX               ; Move the contents of BX into AX
> 
> That's a *good* comment, because without it most English-speaking people 
> would assume you were moving the contents of AX into BX.

But it isn't English, it's assembler.   If someone doesn't know that
assembler they have no business trying to work in it.

A good comment would be "move number of sheep into accumulator" or
something equally as descriptive.  A person who knows the assembler
knows that the BX register will be copied (not "moved" btw) into the AX
register.  What they want from the comment is some idea why.

Yes, understanding assembler is hard.  You aren't going to learn it
from the comments.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy at druid.net>         |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From cs at zip.com.au  Fri Feb 26 23:11:15 2010
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:11:15 +1100
Subject: How to end TCP socket data while using readline()?
In-Reply-To: <273a2d1e-cff5-4759-a59d-6ccfefddfa40@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <273a2d1e-cff5-4759-a59d-6ccfefddfa40@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100227041115.GA24869@cskk.homeip.net>

On 26Feb2010 10:39, Arjun <arjun.chennu at gmail.com> wrote:
| Hi, I have a small script that runs a TCP server. A client connects to
| this server and transmits a stored file line-by-line, and then waits
| for a confirmation "done". However, when I run them the first loop
| never really ends -- as the TCP server keeps expecting more data. I am
| using a file-like-object, and so somehow I have to communicate to the
| server that it is the end-of-file.
| 
| here is some server code
| <snip>
|             sock1.bind(('', port))
|             print "Listening at port: ", port
|             sock1.listen(1)      # listening socket
|             (conn, addr) = sock1.accept()    # connected socket
|             print 'Client (localhost) port: ', addr[1]
| 
|             cf = conn.makefile('r',0)    # file like obj for socket
[...]
|         print 'close'
|         cf.flush()
|         cf.close()
|         sfp.close()
[...]

Too many files. It's not that hard! Or shouldn't be.

| So what I am wondering is:
| 
| 1. Using a file-like object means that the socket becomes uni-
| directional, until the mode of the file object is changed from 'r' to
| 'w' (or vice versa). This seems inefficient, and rather unPythonesque.
| Can somebody tell me if there is a more elegant way of receiving all
| the lines from the client, and then sending a "done" message to the
| client?

Get the socket. It is a file descriptor (or in may be a python "socket"
object with a file descriptor inside).

Open _two_ "file" objects on it using
  from_file = os.fdopen(fd_of_socket, "r")
  to_file = os.fdopen(fd_of_socket, "w").

Use the same:
  print >>to_file, 'close'
  to_file.flush()
method as you're using already.
Read from to_file as needed.

The same scheme should work in both server and client:

Don't look for EOF, watch the input line flow.

You might need to use readline() instead of the file-by-line iteration stuff,
which I seem to recall has some sort of problem handing out the "latest"
line.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson <cs at zip.com.au> DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

It's better, when you're riding with someone you don't know so well, to stick
to the inside line - it's easier to avoid the bits...
        - Barry Sheene


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 23:19:10 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 04:19:10 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.308.1267232090.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b889d3d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:54:53 +0000, MRAB wrote:

> The assembly languages of virtually all the processors that I've come
> across put the destination first, eg. x86:

Incorrect. x86 assembly has two distinct syntax branches, "Intel 
syntax" (which is most common in the Windows world according to 
Wikipedia) and "AT&T syntax".

See for example:

http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gnat_ugn_unw/Basic-Assembler-Syntax.html


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 23:22:39 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 04:22:39 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b889e0f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:25:47 +0000, MRAB wrote:

>> Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions
>> according to the arguments. So you might have:
>> 
>> mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX mv @CX,DX ; move contents of
>> @CX into DX
>> 
>> Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something
>> like that.
>> 
> Ah, yes, "apparently". That's like saying "someone down the pub told
> me...". ;-)

Not down the pub, somebody on Usenet. Are you trying to suggest that 
people might propagate falsehoods on the Internet???


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Feb 26 23:23:26 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 04:23:26 GMT
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<iehm57-m7l1.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
Message-ID: <4b889e3d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:51:17 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

> The only possible exception to this I can think of is when there is some
> non-obvious side-effect (i.e. language and/or hardware is
> "misfeatured"):
> 
>                 mov 	A,B    ; Moving A into B also will also arm
>                                ; the nuclear warhead if the CPU is
>                                ; hotter than 110C

I had an embedded device that did *just that*, but only on Tuesdays.



-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Feb 26 23:56:20 2010
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:56:20 -0500
Subject: Variable definition
In-Reply-To: <4b8892a5$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b8892a5$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4B88A5F4.2020707@ieee.org>



Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> <snip>
>
> for key, value in varDic.iteritems():
>     varDic['myPrefix_' + key] = value
>     del varDic[key]
>
> <snip>
Watch out if any of the existing values already startswith 'myPrefix'  
You can end up with trouble just as confusing as if 'myPrefix' is an 
empty string

DaveA


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 00:31:47 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:31:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> 
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> 
	<a1fb718a-a2d2-40dc-9daf-86bb08ba762d@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d6ef651d-dd1d-4a5b-8610-c91ef91d831b@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
> "You're" not getting the point.

If every link has to be accompanied by a summary of all of the
information at the end of it, what point is there to linking?

(Programmers are the _only_ people I know of who complain about the
arduousness of tasks like typing quotes or clicking on links...)


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sat Feb 27 01:03:53 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:03:53 +1300
Subject: A more specific query ...
References: <hm9bta$8e3$1@speranza.aioe.org>	<mailman.297.1267219170.4577.python-list@python.org>	<4B8860A0.6050600@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz>
	<mailman.321.1267248007.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmacka$lqh$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:00:32 +1300, Gib Bogle
> <g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> The PyQt4 problem results from having copies of the Qt DLLs in directories that 
>> are in the PATH, as Doug Bell discovered.  In my case I have two programs that 
>> use Qt, AMD CodeAnalyst and Matlab.  If I rename BOTH these directories I can 
>> import the PyQt4 modules.
>>
> 	And where are those PATH entries relative to the Python ones? You
> may have to add the Python location to PATH /before/ the AMD and Matlab
> entries. {I routinely -- once a year or so -- copy the PATH environment
> variable to an editor, and reorder it so that the stuff I use most
> occurs earlier in the list}

Well diagnosed!  The others were all system environment variables, while the 
PyQt4 PATH is mine, and therefore it was placed at the end.  I've taken the AMD 
and Matlab PATH entries out of the system list and put them after PyQt4 in my 
PATH.  Now peace and harmony are restored to my Python world.

Thanks
Gib


From raghu521987 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 02:28:02 2010
From: raghu521987 at gmail.com (raghumech)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:28:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: mobiletrickS
Message-ID: <96e8177b-d03f-4aed-9a26-1001c0f02890@b36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

FREE CALL  TO ANYWHERE ...... http://mobiletricks777.blogspot.com/


From darnzen at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 02:40:02 2010
From: darnzen at gmail.com (darnzen)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:40:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <7uqamjFd2vU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <a7679234-2e49-4f0d-a3bd-87f8b1f98b43@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 26, 10:20?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" <de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> Am 26.02.10 17:08, schrieb Diez B. Roggisch:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Am 26.02.10 16:57, schrieb darnzen:
> >> On Feb 26, 9:41 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> >>> Am 26.02.10 16:32, schrieb darnzen:
>
> >>>> On Feb 26, 3:15 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"<de... at nospam.web.de> wrote:
> >>>>> Am 26.02.10 06:07, schrieb darnzen:
>
> >>>>>> Having an odd problem that I solved, but wondering if its the best
> >>>>>> solution (seems like a bit of a hack).
>
> >>>>>> First off, I'm using an external DLL that requires static callbacks,
> >>>>>> but because of this, I'm losing instance info. It could be import
> >>>>>> related? It will make more sense after I diagram it:
>
> >>>>>> #Module main.py
> >>>>>> from A import *
>
> >>>>>> class App:
> >>>>>> def sperg(self):
> >>>>>> self.a = A()
>
> >>>>>> app = App()
> >>>>>> [main loop and such]
> >>>>>> -----------------------------
> >>>>>> # Module A.py
> >>>>>> import main
> >>>>>> class Foo:
> >>>>>> Selves=[]
> >>>>>> def __init__(self):
> >>>>>> Foo.Selves.append(self)
> >>>>>> @staticmethod
> >>>>>> def chum_callback(nType, nP):
> >>>>>> # Need to access function / data in app instance
> >>>>>> app.sperg(nP)
> >>>>>> # Need to access func data in Foo
> >>>>>> # I'm pulling 'self' ouf of list made in constructor
> >>>>>> self = Foo.getSelf(nP)
>
> >>>>>> def getSelf(nP):
> >>>>>> return self.Selves[nP]
>
> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> So basically I added a list of instances to the base class so I can
> >>>>>> get at them from the staticmethod.
> >>>>>> What's bothering me the most is I can't use the global app
> >>>>>> instance in
> >>>>>> the A.py module.
>
> >>>>>> How can I get at the app instance (currently I'm storing that along
> >>>>>> with the class instance in the constructor)?
> >>>>>> Is there another way to do this that's not such a hack?
>
> >>>>>> Sorry for the double / partial post :(
>
> >>>>> Can you show how you pass the staticmethod to the C-function? Is
> >>>>> the DLL
> >>>>> utilized by ctypes?
>
> >>>>> I don't see any reason you couldn't use a bound method, which would
> >>>>> give
> >>>>> you your self, instead relying on global state.
>
> >>>>> Diez
>
> >>>> __main__.K<< *facepalm* should of tried that!
>
> >>>> Yeah I'm using ctypes. The DLL callback set ups are as follows. The
> >>>> local callback is in the App namespace (in this case, some callbacks
> >>>> are in different modules as noted in OP), but still no access to self:
>
> >>>> #Function wrapper
> >>>> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, c_int, c_int, \
> >>>> POINTER(Data_s))(A.Callback)
>
> >>>> #DLL call to register the local callback function
> >>>> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, A.expCallback)
>
> >>>> class A:
> >>>> #Local callback function
> >>>> @staticmethod
> >>>> def Callback(hID, SubID, Data):
> >>>> print 'I DON'T KNOW WHO I AM OR WHERE I CAME FROM!!'
> >>>> print 'BUT WITH hID, and SubID, I CAN FIGURE IT OUT'
> >>>> print 'IF I STORE A REFERENCE TO MYSELF IN A DICT'
> >>>> print 'USING KEY GENERATED FROM hID, SubID'
> >>>> pass
>
> >>>> I'm not sure why they need to be static callbacks, but the DLL doc's
> >>>> say "when using object based languages, such as c++, callback
> >>>> functions must be declared as static functions and not instance
> >>>> methods", and I couldn't get it to work without setting it up that
> >>>> way. I could probably have them all be "classless" functions, but with
> >>>> 100's of these, my namespace would be polluted up the wazoo, and I'd
> >>>> still have the problem that they wouldn't have access to instance
> >>>> methods / properties.
>
> >>> The above code can't work with self, because you use
>
> >>> A.expCallback
>
> >>> which at best can of course be a classmethod.
>
> >>> You need to instead invoke DLLSetCallback with a bound method, like this
>
> >>> a = A()
> >>> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>
> >>> Also, the DLL-docs seem to refer to *C* or *C++*, where the concept of
> >>> static functions is differently. If ctypes manages to get *some*
> >>> callback passed, I'm 100% positive that it can pass *any* callable you
> >>> like, including bound methods.
>
> >>> Diez
>
> >> Thinking about it some more, I believe I understand why it has to be
> >> staticfunction. To use an bound method would require the wrapper to
> >> include a reference to the instance as follows:
>
> >> A.expCallback = WINFUNCTYPE(None, POINTER(A), c_int, c_int, \
> >> POINTER(Data_s))(a.Callback)
>
> >> Since a = A(); a.foo() is really A.foo(self). The problem here is that
> >> A is not a ctypes object and I can't change what arguments the DLL
> >> uses in the callback in any case. Rewording my thoughts: a bound
> >> method callback would require 'self' to be the first argument. I can
> >> not make the DLL include 'self' as it doesn't know anything about the
> >> objects in my program. Since I can't pass 'self', it has to be a
> >> staticmethod.
>
> > No, that's not true. A bound method implictly knows about it self, and
> > it's a callable.
>
> > What I guess is that you did the same mistake I did when I created that
> > example - namely, not keeping a refernce to the bound method around.
> > Ctypes will then garbage-collect the callback, which of course leads to
> > all kinds of troubles.
>
> > Try this:
>
> > a = A()
> > # keep this around
> > bound_m = a.expCallback
> > DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, a.expCallback)
>
> AAAAHHRG, same error again.
>
> Of course, use
>
> DLLSetCallback(self.hID, A.SubID, EVENTID, bound_m)
>
> because the bound method changes with each time you create it.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> Diez

Well, I got around this mess by putting all those static callbacks
into a separate module in a new class. I set them up to call a bound
method of that class which passes the arguments to the appropriate
bound methods of other class instances. I just have to keep a little
dict of the bound method callbacks when I register them with the
class.

I also found a simple trick for sharing globals between modules.
Pretty simple, create an empty module, say shared.py, with only the
pass statement in it. Then dynamically add properties to it such as
shared.app = App(). Import shared into the modules that need access to
app and done!

Thanks for the help on this. Always learning!


From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Sat Feb 27 02:57:07 2010
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:57:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Karrigell 3.0.4 published
Message-ID: <816a06f6-0409-4c43-ac0c-e62ced0ec993@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

A new version of the web framework Karrigell is on line

The main changes are :
- more robust session management in multi-threaded and multi-process
environments
- Unicode management in the HTMLTags module (HTML generation in
Python)
- Unicode management and error reports in Karrigell Templates (simple
templating system)
- more of MySQL : can be used for users database ; improved online
management ; blog application
- use of the WhizzyWig Javascript library for blog applications
- make script caching and HTTP caching optional
- the alias keys can be regular expressions for a more flexible url
resolution
- bug fix for default host configuration and for cookie expiry date

Home page : http://karrigell.sourceforge.net
Download : http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=67940
Google Group : http://groups.google.com/group/karrigell

Cheers,
Pierre


From fabfake at fake.org  Sat Feb 27 03:05:24 2010
From: fabfake at fake.org (Fabiano)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:05:24 +0100
Subject: Updates about Tk
Message-ID: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>


Hi,
I'm going to start my little journey into the Python's lands.
I have already red the old posts about but I suppose this is an evolving
topic.
I have understood Tk is the default Python's GUI toolkit, I have also
read that version 8.5 has native widgets and visual improvements.
My question is:
Are the new Tk comaprable with other toolkits(Qt, GTK,Wx?)?
Does Tk lack other features compared to the Qt,GTK,Wx...?
(Or: is there things you can't simply do with Tk?)

Thanks in advance for replying


From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Sat Feb 27 03:21:55 2010
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:21:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Karrigell 3.0.4 published
References: <816a06f6-0409-4c43-ac0c-e62ced0ec993@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ebc942f4-f1e8-411a-b0b0-9441745fbe36@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 27 f?v, 08:57, Pierre Quentel <quentel.pie... at wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A new version of the web framework Karrigell is on line
>
> The main changes are :
> - more robust session management in multi-threaded and multi-process
> environments
> - Unicode management in the HTMLTags module (HTML generation in
> Python)
> - Unicode management and error reports in Karrigell Templates (simple
> templating system)
> - more of MySQL : can be used for users database ; improved online
> management ; blog application
> - use of the WhizzyWig Javascript library for blog applications
> - make script caching and HTTP caching optional
> - the alias keys can be regular expressions for a more flexible url
> resolution
> - bug fix for default host configuration and for cookie expiry date
>
> Home page :http://karrigell.sourceforge.net
> Download :http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=67940
> Google Group :http://groups.google.com/group/karrigell
>
> Cheers,
> Pierre

Oops ! wrong group, sorry. It's for c.l.p.announce


From half.italian at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 03:26:08 2010
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:26:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Updates about Tk
References: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <699f7b37-e651-4d32-942c-28cff2e2e05d@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>


> Are the new Tk comaprable with other toolkits(Qt, GTK,Wx?)?
> Does Tk lack other features compared to the Qt,GTK,Wx...?
> (Or: is there things you can't simply do with Tk?)
>
> Thanks in advance for replying

tkinter is a good starting point.  You can get some definite benefits
going to wx or Qt.  I guess it depends on how much experience you have
creating GUIs.

Choose the one you are comfortable with.


From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Sat Feb 27 03:52:13 2010
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:52:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Karrigell 3.0.4 published
References: <816a06f6-0409-4c43-ac0c-e62ced0ec993@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<ebc942f4-f1e8-411a-b0b0-9441745fbe36@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <c4414c78-757d-4034-a3ac-490ee8fbf314@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi Pierre

> Oops ! wrong group, sorry. It's for c.l.p.announce

Well, I for one was happy to learn of this release here - thanks

    J^n



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 04:00:00 2010
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:00:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <fad5c5ec-c1d9-4eed-a09c-5d47de501baf@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Michael Rudolf <spamfres... at ch3ka.de> wrote:
> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend

Guido wrote a nice article[1] on "multimethods" using decorators,
which Ian Bicking followed up on[2] with a non-global approach.

1: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=101605
2: http://blog.ianbicking.org/more-on-multimethods.html


From dino at phidev.org  Sat Feb 27 04:11:58 2010
From: dino at phidev.org (Florian Ludwig)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:58 +0100
Subject: Exception in pydoc
In-Reply-To: <4B87FBB3.8090107@gmail.com>
References: <4B87FBB3.8090107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1267261918.16436.31.camel@brain>

On Fri, 2010-02-26 at 13:49 -0300, Ricardo Ar?oz wrote:
> Does pydoc only deal with ASCII? 

UTF-8 in docstrings works for me. 

Maybe:
* Its actually not UTF-8
* The console you're using doesn't support UTF-8 well
  (note: I'm on linux, maybe its a problem with windows?)


code >>>
#!/usr/bin/env python
# -*- coding: utf-8 -*-

def foo():
    """Some ?tf-8 docstring ? g?f (x)"""
    return False
<<<EOF


>>> help(test)
Help on module test:

NAME
    test - # -*- coding: utf-8 -*-

FILE
    /tmp/test.py

FUNCTIONS
    foo()
        Some ?tf-8 docstring ? g?f (x)



-- 
Florian Ludwig <dino at phidev.org>
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From macosx at rocteur.cc  Sat Feb 27 04:36:41 2010
From: macosx at rocteur.cc (@ Rocteur CC)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
Message-ID: <70C8D379-E7C0-4852-94FD-17D9B3B67F2B@rocteur.cc>

Hi,

This morning I am working though Building Skills in Python and was  
having problems with string.strip.

Then I found the input file I was using was in DOS format and I  
thought it be best to convert it to UNIX and so I started to type perl  
-i -pe 's/ and then I though, wait, I'm learning Python, I have to  
think in Python, as I'm a Python newbie I fired up Google and typed:

+python convert dos to unix +one +liner

Found perl, sed, awk but no python on the first page

So I tried

+python dos2unix +one +liner -perl

Same thing..

But then I found http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners 
  and tried this:

cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re; 
[sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in  
sys.stdin]" >file.unix

And it works..

[10:31:11 incc-imac-intel ~/python] cat -vet file.dos
one^M$
two^M$
three^M$
[10:32:10 incc-imac-intel ~/python] cat -vet file.unix
one$
two$
three$

But it is long and just like sed does not do it in place.

Is there a better way in Python or is this kind of thing best done in  
Perl ?

Thanks,

Jerry


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Sat Feb 27 05:14:02 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:14:02 +0000
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmar99$msc$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/27/10 09:36, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
<cut dos2unix oneliners;python vs perl/sed/awk>
Hi a couple of fragmented things popped in my head reading your 
question, non of them is very constructive though in what you actually 
want, but here it goes anyway.

- Oneline through away script with re as a built in syntax, yup that 
sounds like perl to me.

- What is wrong with making an executable script (not being one line) 
and call that, this is even shorter.

- ... wait a minute, you are building something in python (problem with 
string.strip - why don't you use the built-in string strip method 
instead?) which barfs on the input (win/unix line ending), should the 
actual solution not be in there, i.e. parsing the line first to check 
for line-endings? .. But wait another minute, why are you getting \r\n 
in the first place, python by default uses universal new lines?

Hope that helps a bit, maybe you could post the part of the code what 
you are doing for some better suggestions.

-- 
mph


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Feb 27 06:05:01 2010
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:05:01 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmau8e$nn8$02$1@news.t-online.com>

@ Rocteur CC wrote:

> But then I found
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners
>   and tried this:
> 
> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
> 
> And it works..

- Don't build list comprehensions just to throw them away, use a for-loop 
instead.

- You can often use string methods instead of regular expressions. In this 
case line.replace("\r\n", "\n").

> But it is long and just like sed does not do it in place.
> 
> Is there a better way in Python or is this kind of thing best done in
> Perl ?

open(..., "U") ("universal" mode) converts arbitrary line endings to just 
"\n"

$ cat -e file.dos
alpha^M$
beta^M$
gamma^M$

$ python -c'open("file.unix", "wb").writelines(open("file.dos", "U"))'

$ cat -e file.unix
alpha$
beta$
gamma$

But still, if you want very short (and often cryptic) code Perl is hard to 
beat. I'd say that Python doesn't even try.

Peter


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 06:44:30 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 11:44:30 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:

> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
> sys.stdin]" >file.unix

Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal 
string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!

*wink*

Regexes are expensive, even in Perl, but more so in Python. When you 
don't need the 30 pound sledgehammer of regexes, use lightweight string 
methods.

import sys; sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.read().replace('\r\n', '\n'))

ought to do it. It's not particularly short, but Python doesn't value 
extreme brevity -- code golf isn't terribly exciting in Python.

[steve at sylar ~]$ cat -vet file.dos
one^M$
two^M$
three^M$
[steve at sylar ~]$ cat file.dos | python -c "import sys; sys.stdout.write
(sys.stdin.read().replace('\r\n', '\n'))" > file.unix
[steve at sylar ~]$ cat -vet file.unix
one$
two$
three$
[steve at sylar ~]$

Works fine. Unfortunately it still doesn't work in-place, although I 
think that's probably a side-effect of the shell, not Python. To do it in 
place, I would pass the file name:

# Tested and working in the interactive interpreter.
import sys
filename = sys.argv[1]
text = open(filename, 'rb').read().replace('\r\n', '\n')
open(filename, 'wb').write(text)


Turning that into a one-liner isn't terribly useful or interesting, but 
here we go:

python -c "import sys;open(sys.argv[1], 'wb').write(open(sys.argv[1], 
'rb').read().replace('\r\n', '\n'))" file

Unfortunately, this does NOT work: I suspect it is because the file gets 
opened for writing (and hence emptied) before it gets opened for reading. 
Here's another attempt:

python -c "import sys;t=open(sys.argv[1], 'rb').read().replace('\r\n', 
'\n');open(sys.argv[1], 'wb').write(t)" file


[steve at sylar ~]$ cp file.dos file.txt
[steve at sylar ~]$ python -c "import sys;t=open(sys.argv[1], 'rb').read
().replace('\r\n', '\n');open(sys.argv[1], 'wb').write(t)" file.txt
[steve at sylar ~]$ cat -vet file.txt
one$
two$
three$
[steve at sylar ~]$ 


Success!

Of course, none of these one-liners are good practice. The best thing to 
use is a dedicated utility, or write a proper script that has proper 
error testing.


> Is there a better way in Python or is this kind of thing best done in
> Perl ?

If by "this kind of thing" you mean text processing, then no, Python is 
perfectly capable of doing text processing. Regexes aren't as highly 
optimized as in Perl, but they're more than good enough for when you 
actually need a regex.

If you mean "code golf" and one-liners, then, yes, this is best done in 
Perl :)


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 06:45:26 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 11:45:26 GMT
Subject: DreamPie - The Python shell you've always dreamed about!
References: <6c6a96e0-be08-4ec3-a002-0bb9232a8afd@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<12cd38b0-1d34-4b1e-96fb-19c3e2f62ab7@e1g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0fe91504-cb4f-46b6-a327-c5979bb104a6@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<7430987e-3603-4805-b4f4-cae73ca2d3f6@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<b10235a4-586d-4c81-96f4-acaed4d61797@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7a97c5ba-7ac5-42ef-b1ec-9009b0626fec@v1g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<a1fb718a-a2d2-40dc-9daf-86bb08ba762d@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<d6ef651d-dd1d-4a5b-8610-c91ef91d831b@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8905d6$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:31:47 -0800, alex23 wrote:

> Mensanator <mensana... at aol.com> wrote:
>> "You're" not getting the point.
> 
> If every link has to be accompanied by a summary of all of the
> information at the end of it, what point is there to linking?
> 
> (Programmers are the _only_ people I know of who complain about the
> arduousness of tasks like typing quotes or clicking on links...)

Once you've clicked on a link to Tubgirl or Goatsie Man once, you will 
never, ever, ever click on an untrusted link again.

*wink*

But seriously... I dislike being sent links without any explanation of 
what is in them, because in my experience, 9 times out of 10 if I had 
been told, I wouldn't have bothered to clink on the link.



-- 
Steven


From translatorhossam at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 06:53:12 2010
From: translatorhossam at gmail.com (hussam elagmy)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:53:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open all sites that blocked in your country from here
Message-ID: <ad5b4526-d337-40ff-ac6c-be6a6b52e250@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Open all sites that blocked in your country from here
Browse the internet securely using Your Proxy

 You can unblock popular social networking sites such as myspace,
bebo, facebook and many other sites.

http://essam.zxq.net/


From translatorhossam at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 07:06:42 2010
From: translatorhossam at gmail.com (hussam elagmy)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Open all sites that blocked in your country from here
Message-ID: <9433bc33-d585-456a-b878-0f0e110cfff1@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>


Browse the internet securely using Your Proxy

 You can unblock popular social networking sites such as myspace,
bebo, facebook and many other sites.

http://essam.zxq.net/


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Sat Feb 27 08:45:33 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:45:33 +0100
Subject: Variable definition
References: <mailman.304.1267227944.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b8892a5$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20100227144533.36d4294d@geekmail.INVALID>

On 27 Feb 2010 03:33:57 GMT Steven D'Aprano
<steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> exec "'myPrefix_turquoise' = 42"
> 
Not quite:

In [1]: exec "'myPrefix_turquoise' = 42"
------------------------------------------------------------
   File "<string>", line 1
SyntaxError: can't assign to literal (<string>, line 1)


I think you meant:

exec "myPrefix_turquoise = 42"


/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From ijsporg at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 09:31:06 2010
From: ijsporg at gmail.com (org ijsp)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 06:31:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Call For Manuscripts: International Journal of Signal Processing 
	(IJSP)
Message-ID: <123a4533-5c74-4b84-8ee9-28c91827a770@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Call For Manuscripts
The Journal is currently accepting original high-quality research
manuscripts for publication. The Journal welcomes the submission of
manuscripts that meet the scientific criteria of significance and
academic excellence. All research articles submitted for the journal
will be peer-reviewed within three weeks of submission. Following the
peer-reviewed acceptance, the accepted & formatted articles will
normally be published in the next available issue.

All submitted formatted full-text articles should report original,
previously unpublished research results, experimental or theoretical.
Articles submitted to the journal should meet these criteria and must
not be under consideration for publication elsewhere. These articles
should describe new and carefully confirmed findings, and experimental
procedures should be given in sufficient detail for others to verify
the work. The length of a full text article should be the minimum
required to describe and interpret the work clearly.

Papers are solicited from, but not limited to the following topics:

    * Adaptive Filtering & Signal Processing
    * Ad-Hoc and Sensor Networks
    * Analog and Mixed Signal Processing
    * Array Signal Processing
    * Audio and Electroacoustics
    * Audio/Speech Processing and Coding
    * Bioimaging and Signal Processing
    * Biometrics & Authentification
    * Biosignal Processing & Understanding
    * Communication and Broadband Networks
    * Communication Signal processing
    * Computer Vision & Virtual Reality
    * Cryptography and Network Security
    * Design and Implementation of Signal Processing Systems
    * Digital Signal Processing
    * DSP Implementations and Embedded Systems
    * Emerging Technologies
    * Hardware Implementation for Signal Processing
    * Higher Order Spectral Analysis
    * Image and Multidimensional Signal Processing
    * Image Processing & Understanding
    * Image/Video Processing and Coding
    * Industry Technology
    * Internet Signal Processing
    * Machine Learning for Signal Processing
    * Modulation and Channel Coding
    * Multimedia & Human-computer Interaction
    * Multimedia Communications
    * Multimedia Signal Processing
    * Natural Language Processing
    * Next Generation Mobile Communications
    * Nonlinear Signal Processing
    * Optical Communications
    * Parallel and Distributed Processing
    * PDE for Image Processing
    * Radar Signal Processing
    * Rapid Prototyping and Tools for DSP Design
    * RF and Wireless Communications
    * Sensor Array and Multi-channel Processing
    * Signal Processing and Communications Education
    * Signal Processing for Communications
    * Signal Processing for Security
    * Signal Processing Theory and Methods
    * Soft Computing and Machine learning for Signal Processing and
Communications
    * Sonar Signal Processing and Localization
    * SP for Bioinformatics
    * SP for Biomedical & Cognitive Science
    * SP for Internet and Wireless Communications
    * SP for Sensor Networks
    * Spectrum Estimation & Modeling
    * Speech and Audio Coding
    * Speech Processing
    * Speech Synthesis & Recognition
    * Spoken Language Processing
    * Statistic Learning & Pattern Recognition
    * Statistical Signal Processing
    * TF Spectrum Analysis & Wavelet
    * Time-Frequency/Time-Scale Analysis
    * Video compression & Streaming
    * Watermarking and Information Hiding
    * Applications of Signal Processing (Biomedical, Bioinformatics,
Genomic, Seismic, Radar, Sonar, Remote Sensing, Positioning, Embedded
Systems, etc.)
    * Signal Processing and Communications Education
    * Web Engineering
    * Wireless Communications
    * Detection and Estimation
    * Cooperative Communication
    * Adaptive and Array Signal Processing
    * MIMO and Space-Time Signal Processing
    * Compressive Sensing & Applications
    * Cognitive Radio
    * Signal Processing for Communications
    * Network Coding
    * Machine Learning/AI for Signal Processing
    * Network Information Theory
    * Audio, Speech, Image & Video Signal Processing
    * Sequences & Complexity
    * Signal Processing Algorithms & Architectures
    * Source and Channel Coding: Theory and Practice
    * Underwater Communications and Signal Processing
    * Ad-hoc and Sensor Networks
    * Optical Communications and Networks
    * Next Generation Networking, QoS & Security
    * VLSI for Communication & Signal Processing
    * Multihop and Mesh Networks
    * RF Systems for Communications
    * Vehicular Networks
    * Systems, Standards and Implementations
    * Biomedical Signal Processing
    * Coding/Signal Processing in Biology
    * Spoken Language Processing
    * Biological Network & Data Analysis/Modelling


CALL FOR PAPERS
International Journal of Signal Processing (IJSP)
Website: https://sites.google.com/site/ijsporg/
Manuscript submission to: ijsporg at gmail.com
All submitted papers will be judged based on their quality by the
technical committee and reviewers. Papers that describe research and
experimentation are encouraged. All paper submissions will be handled
electronically and detailed instructions on submission procedure are
available on IJSP web pages. Researchers and authors are invited to
participate in the peer-review process of IJSP papers if your research
interest matches with the themes of Call for Papers. For other
information, please contact IJSP Managing Editor.


From macosx at rocteur.cc  Sat Feb 27 10:01:53 2010
From: macosx at rocteur.cc (@ Rocteur CC)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:01:53 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>


On 27 Feb 2010, at 12:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>
>> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
>
> Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal
> string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!

Thanks for the replies I'm looking at them now, however, for those who  
misunderstood, the above cat file.dos pipe pythong does not come from  
Perl but comes from:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners

> Apply regular expression to lines from stdin
> [another command] | python -c "import sys,re; 
> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('PATTERN').sub('SUBSTITUTION', line))  
> for line in sys.stdin]"


Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do  
this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file,  
I simply found the above example on wiki.python.org whilst searching  
Google for a quick conversion solution.

Thanks again for the replies I've learned a few things and I  
appreciate your help.

Jerry


From funthyme at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 10:29:46 2010
From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:29:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <d4408f49-37f8-4c71-854e-e33ffdf1dfd3@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 24, 8:23?pm, Andreas Waldenburger <use... at geekmail.INVALID>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> a company that works with my company writes a lot of of their code in
> Python (lucky jerks). I've seen their code and it basically looks like
> this:
>
> """Function that does stuff"""
> def doStuff():
> ? ? while not wise(up):
> ? ? ? ? yield scorn
>
> Now my question is this: How do I kill these people without the
> authorities thinking they didn't deserve it?

A good way to control Python contractors is (given that firstly there
are functional specifications to comply with, and tests to pass) is to
impose the following condition:

that all code delivered must reach a score of (say) 9.5 or more when
checked by pylint

and pylint could be the way to demonstrate the problems to the
'authorities'.

If payment depends on such a measure, things will change quite
quickly.
John
--

> /W
>
> --
> INVALID? DE!



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 10:54:50 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:54:50 -0500
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
Message-ID: <A6A43E48-FB88-438E-95A3-24684936579B@gmail.com>


On Feb 27, 2010, at 10:01 AM, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file

Perl may be better for you for throw-away code.   Use Python for the code you want to keep (and read and understand later).

S



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sat Feb 27 11:25:48 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:25:48 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <70C8D379-E7C0-4852-94FD-17D9B3B67F2B@rocteur.cc>
References: <70C8D379-E7C0-4852-94FD-17D9B3B67F2B@rocteur.cc>
Message-ID: <hmbh2c$gc$1@dough.gmane.org>

@ Rocteur CC, 27.02.2010 10:36:
> cat file.dos | python -c "import
>   sys,re;[sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>   sys.stdin]" >file.unix

See:

http://partmaps.org/era/unix/award.html

Stefan



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 11:36:29 2010
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:36:29 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <dcc3ec881002262149v4cf1a57l6abc4dac9a4b28b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261957y56375e01n59b0ca28f75324ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002262149v4cf1a57l6abc4dac9a4b28b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002270836.29268.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

On Friday 26 February 2010 21:49:00 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> Thanks for your help Rami.. I got it working.. I did some digging around
> and found out that I needed to install opencv as admin.. Now Im trying to
> run one of the samples and up against my next chalange.
> 
> Argg.. There are so many pit falls!
> 
> Thanks again,
> 

Glad to be able to help :-)

Especially when you've managed to solve something, could you please remember 
to CC the list on your reply, so if people run across the problem in future 
they can benefit from your experience?

Thanks,
Rami

> 
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Isaiah Coberly <routb3d at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thats the furthest I have seen it get.. Ill have to remember this..
> > 
> > here is what Python returned..
> > 
> > >>> from opencv import cv
> > 
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in <module>
> >   
> >     from opencv import cv
> >   
> >   File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\__init__.py", line 74, in
> > 
> > <module>
> > 
> >     from cv import *
> >   
> >   File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\cv.py", line 25, in <module>
> >   
> >     _cv = swig_import_helper()
> >   
> >   File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\cv.py", line 21, in
> > 
> > swig_import_helper
> > 
> >     _mod = imp.load_module('_cv', fp, pathname, description)
> > 
> > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Rami Chowdhury 
<rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> On Feb 26, 2010, at 19:47 , Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> >> 
> >> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages
> >> 
> >> no .py files here..
> >> 
> >> cv.pyd
> >> libcv.dll.a
> >> 
> >> 
> >> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages\opencv
> >> 
> >> _init_.py
> >> matlan_syntax.py
> >> adaptors.py
> >> cv.py
> >> 
> >> 
> >> It looks to me like 'opencv' is structured as a package, from which you
> >> should be able to import and work with Python libraries. Have you tried
> >> putting the above site-packages directory in sys.path:
> >> 
> >> import sys; sys.path.append('C:
> >> \\OpenCV2.0\\Python2.6\\Lib\\site-packages')
> >> 
> >> and then doing:
> >> 
> >> from opencv import cv
> >> 
> >> ?
> >> 
> >> Did I still need to compile this even though it was a win 32 installer?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I don't think so, no -- AFAIK the .pyd files are compiled CPython
> >> extension modules, so it looks like they're all compiled for you.
> >> 
> >> -------------
> >> Rami Chowdhury
> >> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> >> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> >> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com
> >> 
> >> > wrote:
> >>> On Friday 26 February 2010 17:42:04 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
> >>> > Thanks for the reply.
> >>> > 
> >>> > I tried putting the files from
> >>> > 
> >>> >  C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib
> >>> > 
> >>> > too
> >>> > 
> >>> > C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages
> >>> > 
> >>> > and Python still wont import..
> >>> > 
> >>> > I adjusted the environment variables to try and import
> >>> > maya.standalone
> >>> 
> >>> but
> >>> 
> >>> > no dice on that either.
> >>> 
> >>> Sorry, you've still not told me where you expect it to be. Could you
> >>> let us
> >>> know what .py files you can see in C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib ?
> >>> 
> >>> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> >>> 
> >>> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>> > > On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
> >>> > > > I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7
> >>> 
> >>> pro.
> >>> 
> >>> > > > I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting
> >>> > > > the files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still
> >>> > > > returns this.. Any ideas?
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's
> >>> > > certainly
> >>> 
> >>> not
> >>> 
> >>> > > in
> >>> > > the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python
> >>> > > 2.6.4...
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > > >>> import sys
> >>> > > > >>> sys.path
> >>> > > > 
> >>> > > > ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib',
> >>> > > > 'C:\\ProgramFiles\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
> >>> 
> >>> > > > \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:
> >>> \\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
> >>> 
> >>> > > > 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:
> >>> \\Python26\\lib\\plat-
> >>> 
> >>> > > > win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:
> >>> \\Python26\\lib\
> >>> 
> >>> > > > \site-packages']
> >>> > > > 
> >>> > > > >>> import cv
> >>> > > > 
> >>> > > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>> > > >   File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
> >>> > > >   
> >>> > > >     import cv
> >>> > > > 
> >>> > > > ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be
> >>> 
> >>> found.
> >>> 
> >>> > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > ----
> >>> > > Rami Chowdhury
> >>> > > "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." --
> >>> > > Howdle's Saying 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) /
> >>> > > 01819-245544 (BD)
> >>> 
> >>> ----
> >>> Rami Chowdhury
> >>> "Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
> >>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


----
Rami Chowdhury
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GO d-(+++) s-:++ a-- C++> ULX+> P++ L++
E+ W+++ w-- PS+ PE t+ b+++ e++ !r z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Feb 27 11:59:28 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:59:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmbj1f$422$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2010-02-27, @ Rocteur CC <macosx at rocteur.cc> wrote:

> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do  
> this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file,

Are you sure about that?

Or does it just hide the intermediate file from you the way
that sed -i does?

-- 
Grant



From emile at fenx.com  Sat Feb 27 12:03:41 2010
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:03:41 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
In-Reply-To: <m24ol6gv39.fsf@googlemail.com>
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.103.1266924766.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm1res$gvi$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<87sk8r5v2f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<m24ol6gv39.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <hmbj5f$6v6$2@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/24/2010 1:52 PM Arnaud Delobelle said...
> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
>> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?
>
> Are they really good?  Sounds good, spinach lasagne, I don't know a
> recipe for them.  Maybe you could post it as Python code, with a lot of
> nested if-then-else clauses, of course :)
>

+1 for Aahz posting his Spinach Lasagne recipe.

Emile





From kw at codebykevin.com  Sat Feb 27 12:11:14 2010
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:11:14 -0500
Subject: Updates about Tk
In-Reply-To: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
References: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <6adc$4b895233$4275d90a$6509@FUSE.NET>

On 2/27/10 3:05 AM, Fabiano wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm going to start my little journey into the Python's lands.
> I have already red the old posts about but I suppose this is an evolving
> topic.
> I have understood Tk is the default Python's GUI toolkit, I have also
> read that version 8.5 has native widgets and visual improvements.
> My question is:
> Are the new Tk comaprable with other toolkits(Qt, GTK,Wx?)?
> Does Tk lack other features compared to the Qt,GTK,Wx...?
> (Or: is there things you can't simply do with Tk?)
>
> Thanks in advance for replying

In terms of UI, Tkinter as of 8.5 is pretty comparable to the other 
toolkits. The themed ttk widgets use native widgets for things like 
tree/tableviews, buttons, scrollbars, entry fields, labels, etc. If 
there's something that the core widgets don't support, there are both 
higher-level Python widget packages based on Tkinter (PMW, for instance) 
and Tkinter wrappers for Tk widget packages such as tablelist, Bwidgets, 
etc.

More information is here: http://tkinter.unpythonic.net/wiki/

Tk still lacks in a few areas:

1. Native drag-and-drop--you have to install an extension package, 
TkDND, which also has a Python wrapper here: 
http://klappnase.bubble.org/index.html

2. Printing. The other toolkits support this out of the box. With Tk, 
you're pretty limited to lpr and/or generating postscript (on *Nix and 
Mac) and whatever native printing functionality is supported on Windows.

3. HTML rendering. The other toolkits support this natively. There are 
several alternatives on Tk, but none are ideal: see 
http://www.codebykevin.com/blosxom.cgi/2009/11/19#which-html.

I find that Tk is so simple and powerful for most things that its 
limitations are acceptable, or can be worked around. Also, licensing can 
be problematic in some cases. But, as others have discussed, give the 
different toolkits a try and make your own choice.

--Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com


From routb3d at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 12:15:09 2010
From: routb3d at gmail.com (Isaiah Coberly)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:15:09 -0800
Subject: importing libraries not working 2.6.4
In-Reply-To: <201002270836.29268.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
References: <6e9face0-f34d-4943-84c5-7f4a56bb0679@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<dcc3ec881002261957y56375e01n59b0ca28f75324ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<dcc3ec881002262149v4cf1a57l6abc4dac9a4b28b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002270836.29268.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5413BF6A-44D1-48D7-B2EE-0C6364B45B27@gmail.com>

Will do.. Thanks again..

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 27, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> On Friday 26 February 2010 21:49:00 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
>> Thanks for your help Rami.. I got it working.. I did some digging  
>> around
>> and found out that I needed to install opencv as admin.. Now Im  
>> trying to
>> run one of the samples and up against my next chalange.
>>
>> Argg.. There are so many pit falls!
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>
> Glad to be able to help :-)
>
> Especially when you've managed to solve something, could you please  
> remember
> to CC the list on your reply, so if people run across the problem in  
> future
> they can benefit from your experience?
>
> Thanks,
> Rami
>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Isaiah Coberly <routb3d at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>> Thats the furthest I have seen it get.. Ill have to remember this..
>>>
>>> here is what Python returned..
>>>
>>>>>> from opencv import cv
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in <module>
>>>
>>>    from opencv import cv
>>>
>>>  File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\__init__.py", line 74,  
>>> in
>>>
>>> <module>
>>>
>>>    from cv import *
>>>
>>>  File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\cv.py", line 25, in  
>>> <module>
>>>
>>>    _cv = swig_import_helper()
>>>
>>>  File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\opencv\cv.py", line 21, in
>>>
>>> swig_import_helper
>>>
>>>    _mod = imp.load_module('_cv', fp, pathname, description)
>>>
>>> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be  
>>> found.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> On Feb 26, 2010, at 19:47 , Isaiah Coberly wrote:
>>>>
>>>> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages
>>>>
>>>> no .py files here..
>>>>
>>>> cv.pyd
>>>> libcv.dll.a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib\site-packages\opencv
>>>>
>>>> _init_.py
>>>> matlan_syntax.py
>>>> adaptors.py
>>>> cv.py
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It looks to me like 'opencv' is structured as a package, from  
>>>> which you
>>>> should be able to import and work with Python libraries. Have you  
>>>> tried
>>>> putting the above site-packages directory in sys.path:
>>>>
>>>> import sys; sys.path.append('C:
>>>> \\OpenCV2.0\\Python2.6\\Lib\\site-packages')
>>>>
>>>> and then doing:
>>>>
>>>> from opencv import cv
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Did I still need to compile this even though it was a win 32  
>>>> installer?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think so, no -- AFAIK the .pyd files are compiled CPython
>>>> extension modules, so it looks like they're all compiled for you.
>>>>
>>>> -------------
>>>> Rami Chowdhury
>>>> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's  
>>>> Razor
>>>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Rami Chowdhury
>>>> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday 26 February 2010 17:42:04 Isaiah Coberly wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried putting the files from
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib
>>>>>>
>>>>>> too
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C:\Python26\Lib\site-packages
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and Python still wont import..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I adjusted the environment variables to try and import
>>>>>> maya.standalone
>>>>>
>>>>> but
>>>>>
>>>>>> no dice on that either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, you've still not told me where you expect it to be. Could  
>>>>> you
>>>>> let us
>>>>> know what .py files you can see in C:\OpenCV2.0\Python2.6\Lib ?
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Rami Chowdhury
>>>>>
>>>>> <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>> On Friday 26 February 2010 16:06:56 Routb3d wrote:
>>>>>>>> I used the x86 Python 2.6.4 installer. I am working in x64 Win7
>>>>>
>>>>> pro.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have tried adjusting environment variables as well as putting
>>>>>>>> the files directly in the search path of Python.. Python still
>>>>>>>> returns this.. Any ideas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where are you expecting the cv module / package to be? It's
>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>
>>>>> not
>>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the standard library -- at least not in my install of Python
>>>>>>> 2.6.4...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>>>>>>> sys.path
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ['C:\\Python26\\Lib\\idlelib',
>>>>>>>> 'C:\\ProgramFiles\\Autodesk\\Maya2010\
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> \Python\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:
>>>>> \\Windows\\system32\\python26.zip',
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'C:\\Python26\\DLLs', 'C:\\Python26\\lib', 'C:
>>>>> \\Python26\\lib\\plat-
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> win', 'C:\\Python26\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python26', 'C:
>>>>> \\Python26\\lib\
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> \site-packages']
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> import cv
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>  File "<pyshell#4>", line 1, in <module>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    import cv
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be
>>>>>
>>>>> found.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> Rami Chowdhury
>>>>>>> "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." --
>>>>>>> Howdle's Saying 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) /
>>>>>>> 01819-245544 (BD)
>>>>>
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Rami Chowdhury
>>>>> "Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
>>>>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)
>
>
> ----
> Rami Chowdhury
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GO d-(+++) s-:++ a-- C++> ULX+> P++ L++
> E+ W+++ w-- PS+ PE t+ b+++ e++ !r z?
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 01819-245544 (BD)


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 27 12:18:57 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:18:57 -0600
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b88611f$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<87635j4i8x.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b888e62$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87r5o6zjem.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> Also, some assemblies perform the move in different directions according 
> to the arguments. So you might have:
>
> mv AX,BX  ; move contents of BX into AX
> mv @CX,DX ; move contents of @CX into DX
>
> Horrible, yes, but apparently some assembly languages did something like 
> that.

It doesn't matter. Both your comments are wrong from my point of
view. Someone who doesn't know in which direction the move happens is
certainly not qualified to modify the code. And as for learning, he/she
should start with a book, not with a piece of code that requires a
comment on every line unless one can guess its meaning.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 27 12:27:04 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:27:04 -0600
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>

"ssteinerX at gmail.com" <ssteinerx at gmail.com> writes:

> On Feb 27, 2010, at 10:01 AM, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to
>> do this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate
>> file
>
> Perl may be better for you for throw-away code.  Use Python for the
> code you want to keep (and read and understand later).

Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
language is just a tool to do a job?

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 12:29:44 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:29:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Updates about Tk
References: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it> 
	<6adc$4b895233$4275d90a$6509@FUSE.NET>
Message-ID: <d6f9d8e2-3379-4add-bffd-0f058ccd6fd8@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 11:11?am, Kevin Walzer <k... at codebykevin.com> wrote:

(...snip...)

> Kevin Walzer
> Code by Kevinhttp://www.codebykevin.com

Great post Kevin! The only thing i would like to add are my two
favorite references for learning Tkinter. They are not geared around
the new ttk stuff, but still 95% relevant to any Tkinter-ing

http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 27 12:37:22 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:37:22 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<201002261335.02933.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002270937n79ed285bh1715671e3c5a2958@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/26/10, Victor Stinner <victor.stinner at haypocalc.com> wrote:
> Le vendredi 26 f?vrier 2010 15:37:43, Daniel Fetchinson a ?crit :
>> >> pysandbox is a new Python sandbox project
>>
>> Out of curiosity, the python sandbox behind google app engine is open
>>  source? If so, how is it different from your project, if not, anyone
>> knows
>>  if it will be in the future?
>
> I don't know this project. Do you have the URL of the project home page? Is
> it
> the "safelite.py" project?

It's google's hosting solution called app engine, for python web
applications: http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/gettingstarted/

I guess they also have some kind of a sandbox if they let people run
python on their machines, I'm not sure if it's open source though.

Cheers,
Daniel




-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From alfps at start.no  Sat Feb 27 12:40:01 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:40:01 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmbldl$ldj$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* @ Rocteur CC:
> 
> On 27 Feb 2010, at 12:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>>
>>> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
>>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>>> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
>>
>> Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal
>> string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!
> 
> Thanks for the replies I'm looking at them now, however, for those who 
> misunderstood, the above cat file.dos pipe pythong does not come from 
> Perl but comes from:
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners

Steven is right with the "Holy Cow" and multiple exclamation marks.

For those unfamiliar with that, just google "multiple exclamation marks", I 
think that should work... ;-)

Not only is a regular expression overkill & inefficient, but the snippet also 
needlessly constructs an array with size the number of lines.

Consider instead e.g.

<hack>
import sys; sum(int(bool(sys.stdout.write(line.replace('\r\n','\n')))) for line 
in sys.stdin)
</hack>

But better, consider that it's less work to save the code in a file than copying 
and pasting it in a command interpreter, and then it doesn't need to be 1 line.



>> Apply regular expression to lines from stdin
>> [another command] | python -c "import 
>> sys,re;[sys.stdout.write(re.compile('PATTERN').sub('SUBSTITUTION', 
>> line)) for line in sys.stdin]"
> 
> 
> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do 
> this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file, I 
> simply found the above example on wiki.python.org whilst searching 
> Google for a quick conversion solution.
> 
> Thanks again for the replies I've learned a few things and I appreciate 
> your help.

Cheers,

- Alf


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 12:42:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 17:42:31 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b895987$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:01:53 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:

> On 27 Feb 2010, at 12:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>>
>>> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
>>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>>> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
>>
>> Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal
>> string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!
> 
> Thanks for the replies I'm looking at them now, however, for those who
> misunderstood, the above cat file.dos pipe pythong does not come from
> Perl but comes from:
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners

Whether it comes from Larry Wall himself, or a Python wiki, using regexes 
for a simple string replacement is like using an 80 lb sledgehammer to 
crack a peanut.


>> Apply regular expression to lines from stdin [another command] | python
>> -c "import sys,re;
>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('PATTERN').sub('SUBSTITUTION', line)) for
>> line in sys.stdin]"

And if PATTERN is an actual regex, rather than just a simple substring, 
that would be worthwhile. But if PATTERN is a literal string, then string 
methods are much faster and use much less memory.

> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to do
> this 

I'm sure it does. If I were interested in code-golf, I'd be impressed.


> and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate file,

The solution I gave you doesn't use an intermediate file either.

*slaps head and is enlightened*
Oh, I'm an idiot! 

Since you're reading text files, there's no need to call
replace('\r\n','\n'). Since there shouldn't be any bare \r characters in 
a DOS-style text file, just use replace('\r', ''). 

Of course, that's an unsafe assumption in the real world. But for a quick 
and dirty one-liner (and all one-liners are quick and dirty), it should 
be good enough.



-- 
Steven


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 13:01:22 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:01:22 -0500
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <A5ABC5E5-D8BC-424D-BC36-9204E33BC734@gmail.com>


On Feb 27, 2010, at 12:27 PM, John Bokma wrote:

> "ssteinerX at gmail.com" <ssteinerx at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On Feb 27, 2010, at 10:01 AM, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>>> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of characters to
>>> do this and certainly does not require the creation an intermediate
>>> file
>> 
>> Perl may be better for you for throw-away code.  Use Python for the
>> code you want to keep (and read and understand later).
> 
> Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
> noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
> language is just a tool to do a job?

I'm not sure how "use it for what it's good for" has anything to do with toes. 

I've written lots of both Python and Perl and sometimes, for one-off's, Perl is quicker; if you know it.  

I sure don't want to maintain Perl applications though; even ones I've written.

When all you have is a nail file, everything looks like a toe; that doesn't mean you want to have to maintain it.  Or something.

S



From invalid at invalid.invalid  Sat Feb 27 13:02:34 2010
From: invalid at invalid.invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:02:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.324.1267282919.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmbmnq$a3b$1@reader1.panix.com>

On 2010-02-27, @ Rocteur CC <macosx at rocteur.cc> wrote:
>
> On 27 Feb 2010, at 12:44, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:36:41 +0100, @ Rocteur CC wrote:
>>
>>> cat file.dos | python -c "import sys,re;
>>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('\r\n').sub('\n', line)) for line in
>>> sys.stdin]" >file.unix
>>
>> Holy cow!!!!!!! Calling a regex just for a straight literal-to-literal
>> string replacement! You've been infected by too much Perl coding!
>
> Thanks for the replies I'm looking at them now, however, for those who  
> misunderstood, the above cat file.dos pipe pythong does not come from  
> Perl but comes from:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Powerful%20Python%20One-Liners
>
>> Apply regular expression to lines from stdin
>> [another command] | python -c "import sys,re; 
>> [sys.stdout.write(re.compile('PATTERN').sub('SUBSTITUTION', line))  
>> for line in sys.stdin]"
>
> Nothing to do with Perl, Perl only takes a handful of
> characters to do this and certainly does not require the
> creation an intermediate file,

In _theory_ you can do a simple string-replace in situ as long
as the replacement string is shorter than the original string.
But I have a hard time believing that Perl actually does it
that. Since I don't speak line-noise, will you please post the
Perl script that you claim does the conversion without creating
an intermediate file?

The only way I can think of to do a general in-situ file
modification is to buffer the entire file's worth of output in
memory and then overwrite the file after all of the processing
has finished.  Python can do that too, but it's not generally a
very good approach.

-- 
Grant



From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Sat Feb 27 13:10:40 2010
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:10:40 +0100
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<d4408f49-37f8-4c71-854e-e33ffdf1dfd3@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20100227191040.6c77f2d8@geekmail.INVALID>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:29:46 -0800 (PST) John Pinner
<funthyme at gmail.com> wrote:

> A good way to control Python contractors is (given that firstly there
> are functional specifications to comply with, and tests to pass) is to
> impose the following condition:
> 
> that all code delivered must reach a score of (say) 9.5 or more when
> checked by pylint
> 
Now that *is* a good idea. I hadn't thought about that.

But as I said: a) I am (we are) not in a position to impose this (We
don't work with the code, we just run the software). And
b) I wasn't quite serious with this anyway.

But still, I'll keep that in mind.
/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 27 13:15:39 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:15:39 -0600
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.331.1267293687.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <873a0mpmt0.fsf@castleamber.com>

"ssteinerX at gmail.com" <ssteinerx at gmail.com> writes:

> I'm not sure how "use it for what it's good for" has anything to do
> with toes.

I've the feeling that some people who use Python are easily offended by
everthing Perl related. Which is silly; zealotism in general is, for
that matter.

> I've written lots of both Python and Perl and sometimes, for
> one-off's, Perl is quicker; if you know it.
>
> I sure don't want to maintain Perl applications though; even ones I've
> written.

Ouch, I am afraid that that tells a lot about your Perl programming
skills.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 13:29:52 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerx at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:29:52 -0500
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <873a0mpmt0.fsf@castleamber.com>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<mailman.331.1267293687.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<873a0mpmt0.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <2B2A2898-E576-4BDD-B475-C0234D14D155@gmail.com>

On Feb 27, 2010, at 1:15 PM, John Bokma wrote:

>> I sure don't want to maintain Perl applications though; even ones I've
>> written.
> 
> Ouch, I am afraid that that tells a lot about your Perl programming
> skills.

Nah, it tells you about my preferences.  

I can, and have, written maintainable things in many languages, including Perl.

However, I *choose* Python.

S



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Feb 27 14:28:26 2010
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:28:26 -0500
Subject: Karrigell 3.0.4 published
In-Reply-To: <ebc942f4-f1e8-411a-b0b0-9441745fbe36@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <816a06f6-0409-4c43-ac0c-e62ced0ec993@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>
	<ebc942f4-f1e8-411a-b0b0-9441745fbe36@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmbroo$299$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 2/27/2010 3:21 AM, Pierre Quentel wrote:

>
> Oops ! wrong group, sorry. It's for c.l.p.announce

Announcements also come to c.l.p and python-list. C.l.p.a should be a 
low-traffic subset, perhaps with followups set to c.l.p for discussion.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 27 14:29:17 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 11:29:17 -0800
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <87mxyuzj13.fsf at castleamber.com>,
John Bokma  <john at castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
>noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
>language is just a tool to do a job?

When do people learn that language makes a difference?  I used to be a
Perl programmer; these days, you'd have to triple my not-small salary to
get me to even think about programming in Perl.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 27 15:46:38 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 12:46:38 -0800
Subject: Bizarre arithmetic results
References: <mailman.2359.1265890457.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<ky98qw.7mf@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
	<pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>
Message-ID: <hmc0be$o4p$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <pan.2010.02.23.08.11.51 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>,
Steven D'Aprano  <steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>
>[steve at sylar ~]$ cat ws-example.rb

Ahhh, you're a Heroes fan.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From sillyhat at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 27 15:50:38 2010
From: sillyhat at yahoo.com (Hal Styli)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
Message-ID: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

Can someone please help.
I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
in python...

I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:

from something like this

< ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
< .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
< .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
< .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
< ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >

to this

dick,eggs,12
tom,milk,2
harry,bread,1
tom,eggs,6
dick,eggs,6

I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
sed.

Thanks for any constructive help given.

Hal


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 27 15:50:41 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 12:50:41 -0800
Subject: Spam from gmail
References: <167f59d8-0e6f-43d5-824b-474744a21c88@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<hm3uhc$c7o$1@panix5.panix.com> <m24ol6gv39.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<mailman.328.1267290305.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmc0j1$ag9$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.328.1267290305.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Emile van Sebille  <emile at fenx.com> wrote:
>On 2/24/2010 1:52 PM Arnaud Delobelle said...
>> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>>
>>> That seems to miss the point to some extent.  If I post my recipe for
>>> spinach lasagne here, is that spam?
>>
>> Are they really good?  Sounds good, spinach lasagne, I don't know a
>> recipe for them.  Maybe you could post it as Python code, with a lot of
>> nested if-then-else clauses, of course :)
>
>+1 for Aahz posting his Spinach Lasagne recipe.

Sorry, I lied.  ;-)  I don't actually have a spinach lasagne recipe.
I've got lots of others on my personal website at http://rule6.info/
(including one for Catalan Spinach).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From john at castleamber.com  Sat Feb 27 15:56:22 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:56:22 -0600
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87aauu5rex.fsf@castleamber.com>

Hal Styli <sillyhat at yahoo.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> Can someone please help.
> I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> in python...
>
> I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
>
> from something like this
>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
>
> to this
>
> dick,eggs,12
> tom,milk,2
> harry,bread,1
> tom,eggs,6
> dick,eggs,6
>
> I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> sed.

It's not clear how your XML actually looks, but (especially) if those
are all attributes of one element I probably would just use xml.sax

I strongly suggest to not use regex to parse XML.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From dontsendleospam at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 18:57:15 2010
From: dontsendleospam at gmail.com (dontspamleo)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:57:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

I think a big part of the problem is that the scoping rules in Python
are inconsistent because classes are a different kind of object. An
example helps:

This works:

x = 1
def f(y): return y + x

This works:

def f():
  x = 1
  def g(y): return x + y
  return g(2)


But this doesn't work...
class C:
  x = 1
  def f(self,y): return x + y

...although what was probably meant was this, which does work...
class C:
  x = 1
  def f(self,y): return self.x + y

...and really means this...
class C:
  x = 1
  def f(self,y): return T.x + y

...which create other quirkiness when x is mutable as illustrated
nicely here:

http://bioscreencastwiki.com/Python_Variable_scope_gymnastics

One reasonable answer to this quirkiness is RTFM. Classes are well
documented as is everything else in python. Mostly late-binding
semantics are also well documented.

I argue that it is more consistent to have the scope for classes be
consistent with the scope of everything else, which makes the early/
late binding point mute.

I know this is a major change, that it would break existing code, etc.
It would have been better to talk about these things before py3k.
Still:

1. Has this been discussed before?

1. What would this suggestion break?

2. What are the advantages of making the scope of class variables
different? Maybe is it just a historical trait?

Cheers,
Leo.



From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 19:12:10 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:12:10 -0500
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
In-Reply-To: <b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <A659D5F8-9AF4-466A-B516-7B722EE8F56B@gmail.com>


On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:57 PM, dontspamleo wrote:

> 
> 
> http://bioscreencastwiki.com/Python_Variable_scope_gymnastics

Broken link:

Site settings could not be loaded

We were unable to locate the API to request site settings. Please see below for debugging information.

HTTP Response Status Code: 0




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb 27 19:47:30 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 16:47:30 -0800
Subject: python dowload
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <hmcef2$36t$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d at insightbb.com>,
monkeys paw  <monkey at joemoney.net> wrote:
>On 2/23/2010 3:17 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> 
>> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?
>
>'wb' does the trick. Thanks all!
>
>import urllib2
>a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
>i = 0
>for line in 
>urllib2.urlopen('http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'):
>     i = i + 1
>     a.write(line)

Using a for loop here is still a BAD IDEA -- line could easily end up
megabytes in size (though that is statistically unlikely).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From tarekamr at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 20:41:09 2010
From: tarekamr at gmail.com (tarekamr at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:41:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
Message-ID: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4
the following line (line 332 in http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/__init__.py)
showed a syntax error

items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']

So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant
syntax.

Thanks a lot,
Tarek


From rjngrj2010 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 20:48:15 2010
From: rjngrj2010 at gmail.com (gujax)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:48:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
Message-ID: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
the problem. I tried all versions of python but having installation
problems for all. Installation does not proceed and I get a message
saying "dll required for installation could not be run". I do not even
know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
error window saying - upgrade windows.
Is there no solution at all to installing python on WinME. I have
checked registry several times online and have sought professional
help but so far no success.
Thanks, I will appreciate any help
gujax


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sat Feb 27 20:49:51 2010
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:49:51 -0500
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
In-Reply-To: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ec96e1391002271749x52886307o7a448192181102ca@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 8:41 PM, tarekamr at gmail.com <tarekamr at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
> PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4
> the following line (line 332 in
> http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/__init__.py)
> showed a syntax error
>
> items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
> sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']
>
> So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant
> syntax.
>
>
That's a list comprehension. Really useful tool. That line is equivalent to

items = []

for k,v in sorted(self.items()) :
    if k != 'oauth_signature' :
        if type(v) != ListType:
            items.append((k,v))
        else :
            items.append(sorted(v))
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From zaphod at beeblebrox.net  Sat Feb 27 20:52:15 2010
From: zaphod at beeblebrox.net (Zaphod)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:52:15 GMT
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <j%jin.52334$0N3.51233@newsfe09.iad>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:50:38 -0800, Hal Styli wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Can someone please help.
> I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite in
> python...
> 
> I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
> 
> from something like this
> 
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... > < ....
> cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...> < .... cust="harry"
> .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...> < .... cust="tom" ....
> product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...> < ..... cust="dick" ....
> product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
> 
> to this
> 
> dick,eggs,12
> tom,milk,2
> harry,bread,1
> tom,eggs,6
> dick,eggs,6
> 
> I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick ways
> of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to parse the
> original file or python's regex to achive what I did using sed.
> 
> Thanks for any constructive help given.
> 
> Hal

Start here:

http://pyxml.sourceforge.net/topics/


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Feb 27 20:58:34 2010
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:58:34 -0800
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
In-Reply-To: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c1002271758s17ec88d4oc122a31634dafb1e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 5:41 PM, tarekamr at gmail.com <tarekamr at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
> PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4
> the following line (line 332 in http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/__init__.py)
> showed a syntax error
>
> items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
> sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']
>
> So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant
> syntax.

This part is your problem:
(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v))

Conditional expressions like that were added in v2.5:
http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-308-conditional-expressions

Here's an untested substitute:

def sort_or_tuple(k, v):
    if type(v) != ListType:
        return k, v
    else:
        return sorted(v)

items = [sort_or_tuple(k,v) for k,v in sorted(self.items()) if k !=
'oauth_signature']

Of course, the more obvious solution is just to upgrade your Python;
it's well worth it!

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 21:02:58 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 02:02:58 GMT
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
References: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b89ced1$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:41:09 -0800, tarekamr at gmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
> PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4 the
> following line (line 332 in
> http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/
__init__.py)
> showed a syntax error
> 
> items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
> sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']
> 
> So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant syntax.

You would be better off installing Python2.5 on the PC rather than trying 
to backport the library to 2.4. There could be thousands of changes 
needed to backport the library.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 21:03:12 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 02:03:12 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
Message-ID: <4b89cee0$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:27:04 -0600, John Bokma wrote:

> When do people learn that a
> language is just a tool to do a job?

When do people learn that there are different sorts of tools? A 
professional wouldn't use a screwdriver when they need a hammer.

Perl has strengths: it can be *extremely* concise, regexes are optimized 
much more than in Python, and you can do some things as a one-liner short 
enough to use from the command line easily. Those are values, as seen by 
the millions of people who swear by Perl, but they are not Python's 
values.

If you want something which can make fine cuts in metal, you would use a 
hacksaw, not a keyhole saw or a crosscut saw. If you want to cut through 
an three foot tree truck, you would use a ripsaw or a chainsaw, and not a 
hacksaw. If you want concise one-liners, you would use Perl, not Python, 
and if you want readable, self-documenting code, you're more likely to 
get it from Python than from Perl.

If every tool is the same, why aren't we all using VB? Or C, or 
Javascript, or SmallTalk, or Forth, or ... ? In the real world, all these 
languages have distinguishing characteristics and different strengths and 
weaknesses, which is why there are still people using PL/I and Cobol as 
well as people using Haskell and Lisp and Boo and PHP and D and ...

Languages are not just nebulous interchangeable "tools", they're tools 
for a particular job with particular strengths and weaknesses, and 
depending on what strengths you value and what weaknesses you dislike, 
some tools simply are better than other tools for certain tasks.



-- 
Steven


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Feb 27 21:06:44 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:06:44 +1300
Subject: staticmethod and namespaces
In-Reply-To: <a7679234-2e49-4f0d-a3bd-87f8b1f98b43@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <aa64642d-46b4-42a0-a2cc-eeb14e88b48a@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7uphq3FuapU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<52e45c25-2802-458e-8297-9eb3bb4e055a@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uq8d7FvifU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<783b7ba9-6160-4396-a8c7-1a0404100476@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7uqa0eF95lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <7uqamjFd2vU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<a7679234-2e49-4f0d-a3bd-87f8b1f98b43@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7uu0q2Fb8hU1@mid.individual.net>

darnzen wrote:

> Well, I got around this mess by putting all those static callbacks
> into a separate module in a new class. I set them up to call a bound
> method of that class which passes the arguments to the appropriate
> bound methods of other class instances. I just have to keep a little
> dict of the bound method callbacks when I register them with the
> class.

You're making it much more complicated than it needs to
be. Diez is right, a bound method should work provided you
keep a reference to it somewhere for as long as it's needed.

-- 
Greg


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 27 21:12:12 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:12:12 +0000
Subject: Pyrhon2.5 to 2.4 conversion
In-Reply-To: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <739740b0-802d-4f1b-8c09-c9094242ffad@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4B89D0FC.7080205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

tarekamr at gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am currently using oauth2.py library, and it works fine on one of my
> PC's (python2.5), but later on when I tried to use it with python2.4
> the following line (line 332 in http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2/blob/master/oauth2/__init__.py)
> showed a syntax error
> 
> items = [(k, v if type(v) != ListType else sorted(v)) for k,v in
> sorted(self.items()) if k != 'oauth_signature']
> 
> So it there a way to convert this line to a python2.4 compliant
> syntax.
> 
I think the clearest is:

items = []
for k, v in sorted(self.items()):
     if k != 'oauth_signature':
         if type(v) == ListType:
             v = sorted(v)
         items.append((k, v))



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Feb 27 21:19:03 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:19:03 -0600
Subject: python dowload
In-Reply-To: <hmcef2$36t$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <lfydnakvk8ARshnWnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@insightbb.com>	<mailman.130.1266956240.4577.python-list@python.org>	<2fWdnXOfjat-whnWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@insightbb.com>
	<hmcef2$36t$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4B89D297.8010901@tim.thechases.com>

Aahz wrote:
> monkeys paw  <monkey at joemoney.net> wrote:
>> On 2/23/2010 3:17 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>>> Sure you don't need this to be 'wb' instead of 'w'?
>> 'wb' does the trick. Thanks all!
>>
>> import urllib2
>> a = open('adobe.pdf', 'wb')
>> i = 0
>> for line in 
>> urllib2.urlopen('http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com/downloads/6510413.pdf'):
>>     i = i + 1
>>     a.write(line)
> 
> Using a for loop here is still a BAD IDEA -- line could easily end up
> megabytes in size (though that is statistically unlikely).

Just so the OP has it, dealing with binary files without reading 
the entire content into memory would look something like

   from urllib2 import urlopen
   CHUNK_SIZE = 1024*4  # 4k, why not?
   OUT_NAME = 'out.pdf'
   a = open(OUT_NAME, 'wb')
   u = urlopen(URL)
   bytes_read = 0
   while True:
     data = u.read(CHUNK_SIZE)
     if not data: break
     a.write(data)
     bytes_read += len(data)
   print "Wrote %i bytes to %s" % (
     bytes_read, OUT_NAME)

-tkc


From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Feb 27 21:23:03 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:23:03 +1300
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID: <7uu1ooFiipU1@mid.individual.net>

Mel wrote:

> You could think of it as a not bad use of the design principle "Clear The 
> Simple Stuff Out Of The Way First".  Destinations are commonly a lot simpler 
> than sources

That's not usually true in assembly languages, though,
where the source and destination are both very restricted
and often about the same complexity.

That's not to say that right-to-left is the wrong way
to do it in an assembly language, but there are less
misleading words than "move" that could be used.

Z80 assembly language uses "load", which makes things
considerably clearer:

   LD A, B  ; load A with B

-- 
Greg


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:26:23 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:26:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <921d8fca-2cdc-4444-87c0-96f4072fbfdb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 7:48?pm, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> years -

Wow 2 years!, you must have the patience of a saint!

> Installation does not proceed and I get a message
> saying "dll required for installation could not be run".

Did it say "what" dll did not run, did have a name?

> I do not even
> know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
> I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
> error window saying - upgrade windows.

Hmm, have you tried "upgrading windows, just a wild guess!



From rpdooling at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:36:45 2010
From: rpdooling at gmail.com (Rick Dooling)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:36:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <fef45163-9695-4492-a44d-bc05fee0539d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

> Hi,
> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system

Try this:

http://tinyurl.com/w7wgp

RD




From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:38:00 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:00 -0500
Subject: help with Python installation
In-Reply-To: <921d8fca-2cdc-4444-87c0-96f4072fbfdb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<921d8fca-2cdc-4444-87c0-96f4072fbfdb@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ED2BA180-BC8D-4060-99D9-F91ADB668184@gmail.com>

>> I do not even
>> know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
>> I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
>> error window saying - upgrade windows.
> 
> Hmm, have you tried "upgrading windows, just a wild guess!

Hey, not everyone can afford to upgrade Windows and some hardware just can't handle the "new, improved" versions.

How about we all chip in to buy him a copy of Ubuntu?  Oh, wait, it's free...

S



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Feb 27 21:44:17 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 02:44:17 GMT
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b89d880$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:57:15 -0800, dontspamleo wrote:

> I think a big part of the problem is that the scoping rules in Python
> are inconsistent because classes are a different kind of object. An
> example helps:
[...]
> But this doesn't work...
> class C:
>   x = 1
>   def f(self,y): return x + y
> 
> ...although what was probably meant was this, which does work... 
> class C:
>   x = 1
>   def f(self,y): return self.x + y

Yes, this is a deliberate design choice. See below.

 
> ...and really means this...
> class C:
>   x = 1
>   def f(self,y): return T.x + y

I don't understand what T is. Did you mean C?

If so, you are wrong. self.x is not the same as <class>.x due to 
inheritance rules. Consider one example:

>>> class A:
...     x = 1
...     def __init__(self, x=None):
...         if x is not None:
...             self.x = x
...
>>> class B(A):
...     def f(self, y): return self.x + y
...
>>> class C(A):
...     def f(self, y): return C.x + y
...
>>>
>>> B(5).f(10)
15
>>> C(5).f(10)
11


I have no doubt that there will be other examples involving multiple 
inheritance, but I trust I've made my point.


> I argue that it is more consistent to have the scope for classes be
> consistent with the scope of everything else, which makes the early/
> late binding point mute.

Yes, it would be more consistent, but less useful. Apart from methods 
themselves, using class attributes is a relatively rare thing to do, but 
using global level names inside methods is very common.

 
> I know this is a major change, that it would break existing code, etc.
> It would have been better to talk about these things before py3k. Still:
> 
> 1. Has this been discussed before?

Yes.
 
> 1. What would this suggestion break?

Nearly all existing code using classes, which is nearly everything.
 
> 2. What are the advantages of making the scope of class variables
> different? Maybe is it just a historical trait?

See the discussion in the PEP for introducing nested scopes in the first 
place:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0227/




-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Feb 27 21:45:18 2010
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:45:18 +0000
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
In-Reply-To: <7uu1ooFiipU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>	<hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org>
	<7uu1ooFiipU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4B89D8BE.2040905@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Mel wrote:
> 
>> You could think of it as a not bad use of the design principle "Clear 
>> The Simple Stuff Out Of The Way First".  Destinations are commonly a 
>> lot simpler than sources
> 
> That's not usually true in assembly languages, though,
> where the source and destination are both very restricted
> and often about the same complexity.
> 
> That's not to say that right-to-left is the wrong way
> to do it in an assembly language, but there are less
> misleading words than "move" that could be used.
> 
> Z80 assembly language uses "load", which makes things
> considerably clearer:
> 
>   LD A, B  ; load A with B
> 
Some processors distinguish between "load" (memory to register) and
"store" (register to memory), and the destination and LHS operand of
binary operations might be the same register, for example:

     CLC ; clear the carry
     LDA first ; accumulator := byte at first
     ADCA second ; accumulator := accumulator + byte at second + carry
     STA result ; byte at third := accumulator



From steve at holdenweb.com  Sat Feb 27 21:55:50 2010
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:55:50 -0500
Subject: help with Python installation
In-Reply-To: <fef45163-9695-4492-a44d-bc05fee0539d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<fef45163-9695-4492-a44d-bc05fee0539d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmclvv$cp3$1@dough.gmane.org>

Rick Dooling wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system
> 
> Try this:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/w7wgp
> 
That explains how to install Python on Windows *XP*. Windows ME is no
longer a supported platform - the tools used to create it just aren't
able to support platforms that old.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden           +1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010  http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS:        http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/



From staticd at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:56:31 2010
From: staticd at gmail.com (staticd)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:56:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6b04c31f-fdaa-4f63-99fb-5bebe7ae4b0e@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 8:48?pm, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
> the problem.

Dude.  Give up.  There are a ton of __free__ distroz of linux out
there.  Your troubles are not worth the effort.  Why do I say this?
Let's say you do, eventually, figure out what's wrong.  Now what?

Why are you so attached to this machine with ME on it?

nd


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sat Feb 27 22:14:49 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:14:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <038b8f03-c0bc-4ca3-b4eb-73e01ce7f69f@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 28 Feb, 01:48, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
> the problem. I tried all versions of python but having installation
> problems for all. Installation does not proceed and I get a message
> saying "dll required for installation could not be run". I do not even
> know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
> I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
> error window saying - upgrade windows.
> Is there no solution at all to installing python on WinME. I have
> checked registry several times online and have sought professional
> help but so far no success.
> Thanks, I will appreciate any help
> gujax

The docs (*) say that Python 2.5 is still compatible with Windows 9X
and ME, but that support for these platform was dropped at 2.6.  So
you should be able to install and run Python 2.5.

(*) http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html#installing-python

--
Arnaud


From staticd at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 22:37:50 2010
From: staticd at gmail.com (staticd)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:37:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org> 
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com> <hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

> >Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
> >noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
> >language is just a tool to do a job?
>
> When do people learn that language makes a difference? ?I used to be a
> Perl programmer; these days, you'd have to triple my not-small salary to
> get me to even think about programming in Perl.

dude, you nailed it.  many times, if not _always_, the correct output
is important.  the method used to produce the output is irrelevant.


From wuhrrr at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 23:15:43 2010
From: wuhrrr at gmail.com (Hai Vu)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:15:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <d90b1173-b634-42f9-8f9d-6fea21e21626@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 12:50?pm, Hal Styli <silly... at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can someone please help.
> I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> in python...
>
> I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
>
> from something like this
>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
>
> to this
>
> dick,eggs,12
> tom,milk,2
> harry,bread,1
> tom,eggs,6
> dick,eggs,6
>
> I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> sed.
>
> Thanks for any constructive help given.
>
> Hal

Here is a sample XML file (I named it data.xml):
--------------------------
<orders>
	<order customer="john" product="eggs" quantity="12" />
	<order customer="cindy" product="bread" quantity="1" />
	<order customer="larry" product="tea bags" quantity="100" />
	<order customer="john" product="butter" quantity="1" />
	<order product="chicken" quantity="2" customer="derek" />
</orders>
--------------------------

Code:
--------------------------
import csv
import xml.sax

# Handle the XML file with the following structure:
# <orders>
#   <order attributes... /> ...
# </orders>
class OrdersHandler(xml.sax.handler.ContentHandler):
    def __init__(self, csvfile):
        # Open a csv file for output
        self.csvWriter = csv.writer(open(csvfile, 'w'))

    def startElement(self, name, attributes):
        # Only process the <order ... > element
        if name == 'order':
            # Construct a sorted list of attribute names in order to
            # guarantee rows are written in the same order. We assume
            # the XML elements contain the same attributes
            attributeNames = attributes.getNames()
            attributeNames.sort()

            # Construct a row and write it to the csv file
            row = []
            for name in attributeNames:
                row.append(attributes.getValue(name))
            self.csvWriter.writerow(row)

    def endDocument(self):
        # Destroy the csv writer object to close the file
        self.csvWriter = None

# Main
datafile = 'data.xml'
csvfile = 'data.csv'
ordersHandler = OrdersHandler(csvfile)
xml.sax.parse(datafile, ordersHandler)
--------------------------

To solve your problem, it is easier to use SAX than DOM. Basically,
use SAX to scan the XML file, if you encounter the element you like
(in this case <order ...>) then you process its attributes. In this
case, you sort the attributes, then write to a csv file.

--------------------------

References:

SAX Parser:
    http://docs.python.org/library/xml.sax.html

SAX Content Handler:
    http://docs.python.org/library/xml.sax.handler.html

Attributes Object:
    http://docs.python.org/library/xml.sax.reader.html#attributes-objects



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Feb 27 23:27:11 2010
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Gregory Ewing)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:27:11 +1300
Subject: random.gauss: range
In-Reply-To: <4b888905$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <a24dc892-c831-48eb-9812-9ff5e43575c4@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<4b888905$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7uu91gFh1gU1@mid.individual.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> def pinned_gaussian(a, b, mu, sigma):
>     """Return a Gaussian random number pinned to [a, b]."""
>     return min(b, max(a, random.gauss(mu, sigma)))
> 
> def truncated_gauss(a, b, mu, sigma):
>     """Return a random number from a truncated Gaussian distribution."""
>     while 1:
>         x = random.gauss(mu, sigma)
>         if a <= x <= b:
>             return x

If it doesn't have to be strictly gaussian, another way is to
approximate it by adding some number of uniformly distributed
samples together. If you have n uniform samples ranging from
0 to a, the sum will be in the range 0 to n*a and the mean
will be n*a/2. The greater the value of n, the closer the
distribution will be to normal.

-- 
Greg


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Sat Feb 27 23:35:28 2010
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:35:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Turtle graphics speed(). Seems broken
In-Reply-To: <47B5B897.2030300@behnel.de>
References: <a6c686e8-2adf-403c-a489-4c892db865c9@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<47B5B897.2030300@behnel.de>
Message-ID: <27732940.post@talk.nabble.com>



Stefan Behnel-3 wrote:
> 
> Alexander.Oot at gmail.com wrote:
>> I think the speed function may be broken from the turtle graphics package
>> 
>> 
>> "from turtle import *
>> 
>> speed('fastest')
>> 
>> forward(50)"
>> 
>> 
>> I have tried all of the different speed settings, but I get no change
>> in the turtle's speed.... does anyone know how to fix this?
> 
> Use "xturtle"? :)
> 
> http://ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at/~python/xturtle/
> 
> Stefan
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

The Python library's implementation of turtle graphics is slow to the point
that many applications are simply impractical.  I recently converted a
program to Python/turtle graphics that was originally written by my son
using Processing; the result of the conversion is that the time to draw the
balls increased by a factor of roughly 50!  (The Processing version takes
less than 0.1 seconds to generate the image, while the Python version takes
almost 5 seconds on the same computer).  It would be good if this
performance problem can be fixed, either by patching the current
implementation of turtle graphics, or by replacing it with xturtle if that
is better. http://old.nabble.com/file/p27732940/balls.py balls.py 

-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Turtle-graphics-speed%28%29.-Seems-broken-tp15504443p27732940.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From rjngrj2010 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 00:46:21 2010
From: rjngrj2010 at gmail.com (gujax)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:46:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<fef45163-9695-4492-a44d-bc05fee0539d@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <ce2504f1-4c46-49ff-a550-a446513b1ec9@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 9:36?pm, Rick Dooling <rpdool... at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system
>
> Try this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/w7wgp
>
> RD

I gave it a shot but the site installs the same version of
ActivePython which did install on my computer but does not open any
command windows. See my earlier posted e-mail.
Thanks anyway,





From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 00:49:22 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 06:49:22 +0100
Subject: Turtle graphics speed(). Seems broken
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10.1267331735.23598.python-list@python.org>
References: <a6c686e8-2adf-403c-a489-4c892db865c9@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>	<47B5B897.2030300@behnel.de>
	<mailman.10.1267331735.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmd055$mf8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Dr. Phillip M. Feldman:
> 
> Stefan Behnel-3 wrote:
>> Alexander.Oot at gmail.com wrote:
>>> I think the speed function may be broken from the turtle graphics package
>>>
>>>
>>> "from turtle import *
>>>
>>> speed('fastest')
>>>
>>> forward(50)"
>>>
>>>
>>> I have tried all of the different speed settings, but I get no change
>>> in the turtle's speed.... does anyone know how to fix this?
>> Use "xturtle"? :)
>>
>> http://ada.rg16.asn-wien.ac.at/~python/xturtle/
>>
>> Stefan
>> -- 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
> 
> The Python library's implementation of turtle graphics is slow to the point
> that many applications are simply impractical.  I recently converted a
> program to Python/turtle graphics that was originally written by my son
> using Processing; the result of the conversion is that the time to draw the
> balls increased by a factor of roughly 50!  (The Processing version takes
> less than 0.1 seconds to generate the image, while the Python version takes
> almost 5 seconds on the same computer).  It would be good if this
> performance problem can be fixed, either by patching the current
> implementation of turtle graphics, or by replacing it with xturtle if that
> is better. http://old.nabble.com/file/p27732940/balls.py balls.py 

Try to add

   turtle.tracer( 0 )

before generating the graphics, and

   turtle.update()

after.

It sort of speeds things up. :-)

To test it I had to rewrite your code a little, getting rid of the numpy 
dependency since I don't have numpy installed. Looks like this:


<code>
#from numpy import *
def array( data, dtype ): return data       # Emulate numpy array constructor

import random
from math import *
import sys
from time import time
import turtle # turtle graphics module

class Timer:
    """Track and record elapsed time, allowing an arbitrary number of timers."""

    from time import time

    # Constructor:
    def __init__(self):
       self.start= time()

    # Report elapsed time:
    def time(self):

       # Compute elapse time:
       elapsed= time() - self.start

       # Print elapsed time in seconds:
       print str(elapsed) + ' s',

       # If total elapsed time exceeds 60 seconds, also print time as
       # as minutes and seconds:
       if elapsed >= 60.0:
          minutes= numpy.floor(elapsed / 60.0)
          elapsed-= 60 * minutes
          print '= ' + num2str(minutes,0) + ' m ' + num2str(elapsed,3) + ' s'
       else:
          print

def main():


    # Section 1: User inputs.  All four arrays should have the same dimensions.

    balls_of_type = array([20, 20], dtype=int)
    radius_of_type= array([35, 25], dtype=float)
    mass_of_type  = array([4 ,  2], dtype=float)
    color_of_type = array([0 ,  1], dtype=int)

    canvas_width = 1000 # canvas width in pixels
    canvas_height= 800  # canvas height in pixels


    # Section 2: Setup.


    # Section 2.1: Initialize graphics.

    turtle.setup(width=canvas_width, height=canvas_height)

    # Use units of pixels for specifying locations on the screen:
    turtle.setworldcoordinates(0.0, 0.0, canvas_width, canvas_height)

    # Set background color to black:
    turtle.bgcolor("black")

    # We want to specify R, G, and B using whole numbers from 0 to 255:
    turtle.colormode(255)

    # Turn off animation and hide the turtle to get maximum drawing speed:
    turtle.speed('fastest')
    turtle.tracer( 0 )
    turtle.hideturtle()


    # Section 2.2: Preliminaries.

    ball_types= len(balls_of_type)

    max_tries= 1000
    tries= 0

    # The following variable counts the number of time ticks:
    tick= 0

    colors= [
      (255,    0,    0), # red
      ( 64,   64,  230), # blue, cobalt blue
      (125,    0,    0), # maroon
      (  0,  255,  255), # cyan,baby blue
      (255,  140,    0), # orange
      (  0,  255,    0), # green, light green
      (204,  128,    0), # brown
      (255,  200,  120), # light orange
      (255,  255,  140), # cream
      (0,    128,    0), # dark green, forest green
      (255,  128,  128), # peach
      (255,  255,    0), # yellow
      (0,      0,  204), # dark blue, navy blue
      (150,  355,  150), # light green
      (128,    0,  230), # purple
      (77,   204,    0), # avocado
      (255,  128,  255), # magenta, pink
      (0,    204,  204), # aqua, turquoise
      (230,  192,    0), # gold
      (255,  255,  255), # white
    ]

    # Allocate 2-element lists for basis and velocity vectors:
    u_hat= [0,0]
    v_hat= [0,0]
    uv_speed1b= [0,0]; # before the collision
    uv_speed2b= [0,0]; # before the collision
    uv_speed1a= [0,0]; # after the collision
    uv_speed2a= [0,0]; # after the collision


    # Section 2.3: Calculate the number of balls and allocate arrays whose sizes
    # depend on this.

    # `balls` is the total number of balls:
    balls= sum( balls_of_type )

    x         = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)
    y         = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)
    x_speed   = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)
    y_speed   = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)

    radius    = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)
    mass      = balls*[0.0]  #zeros(balls, dtype=float)

    ball_type = balls*[0]    #zeros(balls, dtype=int)
    ball_color= [] # empty list


    # Section 2.4: Assign a ball type, radius, mass, color, initial position,
    # and initial velocity to each ball.

    n= -1

    for i in range(ball_types):

       # Valid color numbers are 0-19.  If the color number of a ball type is
       # greater than 19, the following line of code fixes the problem by randomly
       # assigning acolor number.
       if color_of_type[i] >= 20: color_of_type[i]= random.randint(0, 20)

       # In the following loop, j is the ball number for the ith type of ball:
       for j in range(balls_of_type[i]):

          # After the following statement executes, `n` will be one less than the
          # number of balls generated.
          n+= 1

          ball_type[n]= i

          radius[n]= radius_of_type[i]
          mass  [n]= mass_of_type  [i]

          ball_color.append( colors[color_of_type[i]] )

          # Continue loop until center coordinates for ball[n] are such that this
          # ball does not overlap any previously generated ball.  If the number of
          # iterations exceeds max_tries, then the program stops the loop if this
          # happens, the program doesn't work because there is not enough space
          # for all the balls in the container.

          for tries in range(max_tries):

             # generate random ball center coordinates:
             keepout= radius[n] + 2.0
             x[n]= random.uniform(keepout, canvas_width  - keepout)
             y[n]= random.uniform(keepout, canvas_height - keepout)

             # Check to see if two balls have been generated on top of each other.
             # First, we set good to True.  True means that this ball does not
             # overlap any of the other balls that we have checked so far.  At the
             # end of the inner loop, if good= False, this means that the ball did
             # overlap at least one of the previous balls, and the program goes back
             # to the top of the outer loop and generates new coordinates for the
             # current ball.

             good= True

             for m in range(n): # innermost loop
                dx= x[m] - x[n]
                dy= y[m] - y[n]
                d= sqrt(dx*dx + dy*dy)
                if (d <= radius[m] + radius[n] + 10):
                   good= False
                   break

             # end for inner for loop

             if good: break

          # end of loop over tries

          if not good:
            print "\nERROR: Not enough space for balls.\n"
            sys.exit()

          # Assign a random initial velocity to the current ball:
          theta= random.uniform(0.0, 2.0*pi)
          x_speed[n]= 2. * cos(theta)
          y_speed[n]= 2. * sin(theta)

       # end of loop over j (number of ball of current ball type)
    # end of loop over i (number of ball type)


    # Section 3: Draw the balls.

    # Initialize timer:
    t= Timer()

    for n in range(balls):

       turtle.penup()
       turtle.goto(x[n], y[n])
       turtle.pendown()

       turtle.color(ball_color[n])
       turtle.begin_fill()
       turtle.circle(radius[n])
       turtle.end_fill()

    turtle.update()

    # Display elapsed time:
    print "Total drawing time: ",
    t.time()
    raw_input('Hit Enter to close figure window.')

if __name__ == "__main__":
    msg = main()
    print(msg)
</code>


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rjngrj2010 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 00:51:32 2010
From: rjngrj2010 at gmail.com (gujax)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:51:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6b04c31f-fdaa-4f63-99fb-5bebe7ae4b0e@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2feb50ee-515f-48d9-99c0-772327597217@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 9:56?pm, staticd <stat... at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 8:48?pm, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> > years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
> > the problem.
>
> Dude. ?Give up. ?There are a ton of __free__ distroz of linux out
> there. ?Your troubles are not worth the effort. ?Why do I say this?
> Let's say you do, eventually, figure out what's wrong. ?Now what?
>
> Why are you so attached to this machine with ME on it?
>
> nd

I agree with you. I have a CD of Xubuntu. I tried booting up with the
CD and was impressed. I noticed few problems with screen resolution,
window size etc. I am not yet sure which distroz is the best for an
instrument with a 512 Mb RAM, 700MHz pentium III chip and about 10Gb
mem. Not sure if this is the right forum for this topic though,
And no, I am not at all attached to Win, though wouldn't say the same
for my computer.
Cheers,
gujax



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Sun Feb 28 01:07:41 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:07:41 +0100
Subject: Signature-based Function Overloading in Python
In-Reply-To: <fad5c5ec-c1d9-4eed-a09c-5d47de501baf@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hm16ij$f30$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<fad5c5ec-c1d9-4eed-a09c-5d47de501baf@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmd17e$rs5$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 27.02.2010 10:00, schrieb alex23:
> Michael Rudolf<spamfres... at ch3ka.de>  wrote:
>> In Java, Method Overloading is my best friend
>
> Guido wrote a nice article[1] on "multimethods" using decorators,
> which Ian Bicking followed up on[2] with a non-global approach.
>
> 1: http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=101605
> 2: http://blog.ianbicking.org/more-on-multimethods.html


Nice!
I really liked 
http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/03/30/five-minute-multimethods-in-python-using-dispatch/


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 02:22:31 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 23:22:31 -0800
Subject: Creating variables from dicts
References: <20d3d914-f12a-4d24-9ef6-885de43c6aa8@n3g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<e54be7a9-f032-4871-bd05-a0c629227421@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.145.1266968505.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmd5jn$io0$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.145.1266968505.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Chase  <python.list at tim.thechases.com> wrote:
>Luis M. Gonz?lez wrote:
>>
>> If you want a list of items, you use tuples or lists. Examples:
>> 
>>     ('a', 'm', 'p') ---> this is a tuple, and it's made with
>> parenthesis ()
>
>Actually, a tuple is made with commas...the parens are just there 
>to clarify the order of operations and make it easier to read :)
>
>   >>> x = 1,2,3
>   >>> x
>   (1, 2, 3)

Almost true:

>>> x = ()
>>> x
()

Parentheses are definitely needed for the empty tuple.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 02:28:39 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Feb 2010 23:28:39 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.247.1267115557.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmd5v7$bir$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.247.1267115557.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Robert Kern  <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>If you are storing the password instead of making your user remember
>it, most platforms have some kind of keychain secure password
>storage. I recommend reading up on the APIs available on your targeted
>platforms.

Are you sure?  I haven't done a lot of research, but my impression was
that Windows didn't have anything built in.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From trstrstrs123 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 02:48:22 2010
From: trstrstrs123 at gmail.com (trstrstrs trstrstrs)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:48:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Paper Presentation Topics
Message-ID: <b68e6956-9c8c-456b-8120-adaebb569be6@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

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From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Feb 28 03:05:11 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:05:11 +0100
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hal Styli, 27.02.2010 21:50:
> I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> in python...

Note that sed (or any other line based or text based tool) is not a
sensible way to handle XML. If you want to read XML, use an XML parser.
They are designed to do exactly what you want in a standard compliant way,
and they can deal with all sorts of XML formatting and encoding, for example.


> I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
> 
> from something like this
> 
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >

As others have noted, this doesn't tell much about your XML. A more
complete example would be helpful.


> to this
> 
> dick,eggs,12
> tom,milk,2
> harry,bread,1
> tom,eggs,6
> dick,eggs,6
> 
> I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> sed.

It's funny how often people still think that SAX is a good way to solve XML
problems. Here's an untested solution that uses xml.etree.ElementTree:

    from xml.etree import ElementTree as ET

    csv_field_order = ['cust', 'product', 'quantity']

    clean_up_used_elements = None
    for event, element in ET.iterparse("thefile.xml", events=['start']):
        # you may want to select a specific element.tag here

        # format and print the CSV line to the standard output
        print(','.join(element.attrib.get(title, '')
                       for title in csv_field_order))

        # safe some memory (in case the XML file is very large)
        if clean_up_used_elements is None:
            # this assigns the clear() method of the root (first) element
            clean_up_used_elements = element.clear
        clean_up_used_elements()

You can strip everything dealing with 'clean_up_used_elements' (basically
the last section) if your XML file is small enough to fit into memory (a
couple of MB is usually fine).

Stefan



From m.92ahesh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 03:14:13 2010
From: m.92ahesh at gmail.com (jaagar)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:14:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Paper Presentation Topics
Message-ID: <ffa92920-bc86-4ff7-ba74-d3ffb527058a@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

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From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Feb 28 03:43:10 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:43:10 -0800
Subject: Is this secure?
References: <mailman.110.1266935711.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<7xk4u26qz0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <hm63gh$ogl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<mailman.247.1267115557.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hmd5v7$bir$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xwrxxrbs1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> Are you sure?  I haven't done a lot of research, but my impression was
> that Windows didn't have anything built in.

I don't know much about the windows but there is the CAPI and then
there is all the TCPA (i.e. DRM) stuff.  Maybe it can be used somehow.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 28 03:48:31 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 08:48:31 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com> <hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:37:50 -0800, staticd wrote:

>> >Amusing how long those Python toes can be. In several replies I have
>> >noticed (often clueless) opinions on Perl. When do people learn that a
>> >language is just a tool to do a job?
>>
>> When do people learn that language makes a difference? ?I used to be a
>> Perl programmer; these days, you'd have to triple my not-small salary
>> to get me to even think about programming in Perl.
> 
> dude, you nailed it.  many times, if not _always_, the correct output is
> important.  the method used to produce the output is irrelevant.

Oh really?

Then by that logic, you would consider that these two functions are both 
equally good. Forget readability, forget maintainability, forget 
efficiency, we have no reason for preferring one over the other since the 
method is irrelevant.


def greet1(name):
    """Print 'Hello <name>' for any name."""
    print "Hello", name


def greet2(name):
    """Print 'Hello <name>' for any name."""
    count = 0
    for i in range(0, ("Hello", name).__len__(), 1):
        word = ("Hello", name).__getitem__(i)
        for i in range(0, word[:].__len__(), 1):
            c = word.__getitem__(i)
            import sys
            import string
            empty = ''
            maketrans = getattr.__call__(string, 'maketrans')
            chars = maketrans.__call__(empty, empty)
            stdout = getattr.__call__(sys, 'stdout')
            write = getattr.__call__(stdout, 'write')
            write.__call__(c)
        count = count.__add__(1)
        import operator
        eq = getattr.__call__(operator, 'eq')
        ne = getattr.__call__(operator, 'ne')
        if eq.__call__(count, 2):
            pass
        elif not ne.__call__(count, 2):
            continue
        write.__call__(chr.__call__(32))
    write.__call__(chr.__call__(10))
    return None



There ought to be some kind of competition for the least efficient 
solution to programming problems-ly y'rs,


-- 
Steven


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 03:52:14 2010
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 00:52:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6b04c31f-fdaa-4f63-99fb-5bebe7ae4b0e@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> 
	<2feb50ee-515f-48d9-99c0-772327597217@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <98403c0c-f545-4b96-bb1c-08e5f2bf5f3a@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 12:51?am, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with you. I have a CD of Xubuntu. I tried
> booting up with the CD and was impressed. I noticed
> few problems with screen resolution, window size etc.

Though it may be worth working out any niggling problems to switch to
Linux, I don't think you should feel pressured to switch if you are
comfortable with Win ME on that particular machine.

> And no, I am not at all attached to Win, though wouldn't
> say the same for my computer.

It sounds like you could have switched to Linux and resolved any
configuration problems in the two years you've been trying to install
Python. ;)  But that said, I have used older versions of Python
without any trouble on Win ME.  In fact, I still have a Win ME machine
running 2.5.2.

According to the docs, you have to have Microsoft Installer 2.0
(freely downloadable from Microsoft if necessary) to use the 2.5 MSI
distribution:

  http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.5.4/

If for whatever reason you can't or don't want to do this, 2.3 still
has an EXE distribution:

  http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.3.5/

John


From brown_emu at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 28 05:00:45 2010
From: brown_emu at yahoo.com (Stephen Tucker)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:00:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: getting rpy2 from repository
Message-ID: <655447.28185.qm@web39705.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all, I have Enthought Python 4.3 installed on my OS X 10.5. When I do $ easy_install rpy2

Searching for rpy2
No matching release version found. Searching for latest development version.
Reading http://www.enthought.com/repo/epd/eggs/MacOSX/10.4_x86/
Please enter credentials to access this repository:
User Name: 

Is there a way to point to the original (non-Enthought) repository, or is there a better way?

Thanks very much in advance!

Stephen



      


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Feb 28 06:05:12 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:05:12 +0100
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hmdil8$eqc$2@dough.gmane.org>

Steven D'Aprano, 28.02.2010 09:48:
> There ought to be some kind of competition for the least efficient 
> solution to programming problems

That wouldn't be very interesting. You could just write a code generator
that spits out tons of garbage code including a line that solves the
problem, and then let it execute the code afterwards. That beast would
always win.

Stefan



From dontsendleospam at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 06:45:38 2010
From: dontsendleospam at gmail.com (dontspamleo)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:45:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: scope of generators, class variables, resulting in global na
References: <3994d693e577792c3cda4ea72bbf8b96@dizum.com>
	<hm35kd$f1f$1@news.eternal-september.org> 
	<2e126011-1b58-4277-a2c6-7839803ba693@u15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<m2mxyxvkkz.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<a18136d5-749b-4d91-befa-013141ae16a7@m35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<m2y6igxx4p.fsf@googlemail.com>
	<b32448f8-21bb-42fa-ab1f-93e80467c466@b7g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<4b89d880$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6cc72563-2720-4fa9-a11a-6fe9f0b7e197@c37g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

> > ...and really means this...
> > class C:
> > ? x = 1
> > ? def f(self,y): return T.x + y
>
> I don't understand what T is. Did you mean C?

Yes, I meant C. Thanks.

>
> If so, you are wrong. self.x is not the same as <class>.x due to
> inheritance rules. Consider one example:
>
<example snipped see thread/>

Thanks for the nice example. Sorry for my loose language. By "really
means", what I really meant was that the most appropriate construct
should be the one referring to the class variable explicitly. I would
consider it inelegant (at least) to use an instance variable with the
same name as a class variable.

>
> > 1. Has this been discussed before?
>
> Yes.
>
> > 1. What would this suggestion break?
>
> Nearly all existing code using classes, which is nearly everything.

Is it that common to have code containing a class variable with the
same name as a global variable? Are there other use cases that would
break?

>
> > 2. What are the advantages of making the scope of class variables
> > different? Maybe is it just a historical trait?
>
> See the discussion in the PEP for introducing nested scopes in the first
> place:
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0227/
>

Thanks. That is really useful. I just read the PEP. I find this
paragraph very helpful:

"An alternative would have been to allow name binding in class
    scope to behave exactly like name binding in function scope.  This
    rule would allow class attributes to be referenced either via
    attribute reference or simple name.  This option was ruled out
    because it would have been inconsistent with all other forms of
    class and instance attribute access, which always use attribute
    references.  Code that used simple names would have been obscure."

The point about all other access use cases requiring attribute
references is a really good one. If a language requires self.f() to
access the member f of class C, which happens to be a function, then
self.x or C.x should also be required to access attribute x. And no
one would be crazy enough to ask to have that fixed.

@Steven: Are there other snippets from the PEP you were pointing to
specifically?

Cheers,
Leo.



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Sun Feb 28 06:51:31 2010
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:51:31 +0000
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1267355406.23598.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>	<hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>	<2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.13.1267355406.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmdlc0$ocq$1@news.eternal-september.org>

On 02/28/10 11:05, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano, 28.02.2010 09:48:
>> There ought to be some kind of competition for the least efficient
>> solution to programming problems
>
> That wouldn't be very interesting. You could just write a code generator
> that spits out tons of garbage code including a line that solves the
> problem, and then let it execute the code afterwards. That beast would
> always win.
>
> Stefan
>
Well that would be an obvious rule that garbage code that does not 
contribute to the end result (ie can be taken out without affecting the 
end result) would not be allowed. Enforcing the rule is another beast 
though, but I would leave that to the competition.

Though the idea of a code generator is solid, but instead of generating 
garbage, produces a virtual machine that implements a generator that 
produces a virtual machine, etc. etc.

-- 
mph


From roland.em0001 at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 07:01:03 2010
From: roland.em0001 at googlemail.com (Roland Mueller)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:01:03 +0200
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <42dbeab41002280401t2916240ak1d4bba1bcf51a5c1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

2010/2/28 Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de>

> Hal Styli, 27.02.2010 21:50:
> > I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> > in python...
>
> Note that sed (or any other line based or text based tool) is not a
> sensible way to handle XML. If you want to read XML, use an XML parser.
> They are designed to do exactly what you want in a standard compliant way,
> and they can deal with all sorts of XML formatting and encoding, for
> example.
>
>
> > I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
> >
> > from something like this
> >
> > < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> > < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> > < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> > < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> > < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
>
> As others have noted, this doesn't tell much about your XML. A more
> complete example would be helpful.
>
>
> > to this
> >
> > dick,eggs,12
> > tom,milk,2
> > harry,bread,1
> > tom,eggs,6
> > dick,eggs,6
> >
> > I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> > ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> > parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> > sed.
>
>
another solution in this case could be to use an XSLT stylesheet. That way
the input processing is defined in an XSLT stylesheet.

The stylesheet is test.xsl and the insput data test.xml. The following
Python code the applies the stylesheet on the input data and puts the output
into foo.

Python code:
#!/usr/bin/python
import sys
import libxml2
import libxslt

styledoc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xsl")
style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styledoc)
doc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xml")
result = style.applyStylesheet(doc, None)
style.saveResultToFilename("foo", result, 0)

BR,
Roland

*Example run in Linux:*
roland at komputer:~/Desktop/XML/XSLT$ ./xslt_test.py
roland at komputer:~/Desktop/XML/XSLT$ cat foo
john,eggs,12
cindy,bread,1
larry,tea bags,100
john,butter,1
derek,chicken,2
derek,milk,2
*
The test.xsl stylesheet:*
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<xsl:stylesheet
  xmlns:xsl="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform"
  xmlns:fo="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Format"
  version="1.0">

<!-- text output because we want to have an CSV file -->
<xsl:output method="text"/>

<!-- remove all whitespace coming with input XML -->
<xsl:strip-space elements="*"/>

<!-- matches any <order> element and extracts the customer,product&quantity
attributes -->
<xsl:template match="order">
  <xsl:value-of select="@customer"/>
  <xsl:text>,</xsl:text>
  <xsl:value-of select="@product"/>
  <xsl:text>,</xsl:text>
  <xsl:value-of select="@quantity"/>
  <xsl:text>
</xsl:text>
</xsl:template>

</xsl:stylesheet>
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From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Feb 28 07:15:09 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:15:09 +0100
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <42dbeab41002280401t2916240ak1d4bba1bcf51a5c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<42dbeab41002280401t2916240ak1d4bba1bcf51a5c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hmdmod$qo1$1@dough.gmane.org>

Roland Mueller, 28.02.2010 13:01:
> The stylesheet is test.xsl and the insput data test.xml. The following
> Python code the applies the stylesheet on the input data and puts the output
> into foo.
> 
> Python code:
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import sys
> import libxml2
> import libxslt
> 
> styledoc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xsl")
> style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styledoc)
> doc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xml")
> result = style.applyStylesheet(doc, None)
> style.saveResultToFilename("foo", result, 0)
> 
> BR,
> Roland
> 
> *Example run in Linux:*
> roland at komputer:~/Desktop/XML/XSLT$ ./xslt_test.py

Note that the shorthand for the above is

    $ xsltproc test.xsl test.xml > foo

Stefan



From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Sun Feb 28 07:38:14 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:38:14 +0100
Subject: Method / Functions - What are the differences?
Message-ID: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Out of curiosity I tried this and it actually worked as expected:

 >>> class T(object):
	x=[]
	foo=x.append
	def f(self):
		return self.x

	
 >>> t=T()
 >>> t.f()
[]
 >>> T.foo(1)
 >>> t.f()
[1]
 >>>

At first I thought "hehe, always fun to play around with python. Might 
be useful sometimes" - but then It really confused me what I did. I 
mean: f is what we call a method, right? But was is foo? It is not a 
method and not a classmethod as it accepts no self and no cls.
So that leaves staticmethod? OK, fair, as x is "static" here anyway this 
reflects what it does. But then consider this:

 >>> class T(object):
	def __init__(self):
		self.x=[]
		self.foo=self.x.append
	def f(self):
		return self.x

	
 >>> y=T()
 >>> y.x
[]
 >>> y.foo(1)
 >>> y.x
[1]
 >>> a=T()
 >>> a.x
[]
 >>> a.foo(2)
 >>> a.x
[2]
 >>>

Note that all I did was moving the list and foo into the instance. Still 
no self and no cls, but also no static behaviour any more.

So is foo just nothing of the above and really only a class/instance 
attribute which happens to be callable?

Perhaps this all does not matter, but now I am really confused about the 
terminology. So: what makes a method a method? And of what type?

Regards,
Michael


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Sun Feb 28 07:43:51 2010
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 12:43:51 GMT
Subject: problem with floats and calculations
References: <bc38bb4a1002140133j7a75c602q46577a11a6fc36b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.2549.1266184509.28905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kyjy13.2eb@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.2549.1266184509.28905.python-list at python.org>,
Dennis Lee Bieber  <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:33:54 +0100, Karsten Goen
><karsten.goen at googlemail.com> declaimed the following in
>gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> Maybe anyone can help me with this problem, I don't want to generate for
>> every possible user input a single formula. And also it should be possible
>> for a computer, my calculator at home does the same and is much smaller and
>> slower.
>>
>       Most ALL calculators that I've encountered use packed BCD internally
>for numeric data. That is -- two decimal digits (0-9) and a few special
>codes (mantissa sign, exponent sign, decimal point location, and
>exponent start). A lot of them (though strangely not HP) included "guard
>digits" -- they would display, say, 8 significant digits for results,
>but kept 10 digits internally, so that rounding errors wouldn't
>accumulate as rapidly. M$ Excel/Access/VisualBasic "money" data type

What is displayed has no influence on rounding errors.
Calculator vendors prevent puzzlement by non-knowledgeable users
by having guard digits. HP apparently deals with professional users,
so I think it not strange at all.

>carries four decimal places, on the assumption that only two are
>significant, and the last two are guards.
>
>       Most ALL computers are using IEEE floating point (and the exceptions
>are still a binary floating point, not a decimal representation).
>
>       The practice, which /used to be/ taught, is that one does not
>compare floating numbers for equality, but rather one compares the
>difference between floating numbers to be less than some epsilon value;
>epsilon chosen depending upon the significance needed.
>
>       Rather than comparing
>
>               a = b
>
>one uses
>
>               abs(a - b) < epsilon
>
>       Since Decimal() also has "infinite" series values (1.0/3.0), an
>epsilon comparison may also be called for.

Not may be.

>--
>       Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG

Groetjes Albert

--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From roland.em0001 at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 08:21:26 2010
From: roland.em0001 at googlemail.com (Roland Mueller)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:21:26 +0200
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <hmdmod$qo1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<hmd83o$ks6$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<42dbeab41002280401t2916240ak1d4bba1bcf51a5c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<hmdmod$qo1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <42dbeab41002280521s73b01689x82f8f73f60da5587@mail.gmail.com>

2010/2/28 Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml at behnel.de>

> Roland Mueller, 28.02.2010 13:01:
> > The stylesheet is test.xsl and the insput data test.xml. The following
> > Python code the applies the stylesheet on the input data and puts the
> output
> > into foo.
> >
> > Python code:
> > #!/usr/bin/python
> > import sys
> > import libxml2
> > import libxslt
> >
> > styledoc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xsl")
> > style = libxslt.parseStylesheetDoc(styledoc)
> > doc = libxml2.parseFile("test.xml")
> > result = style.applyStylesheet(doc, None)
> > style.saveResultToFilename("foo", result, 0)
> >
> > BR,
> > Roland
> >
> > *Example run in Linux:*
> > roland at komputer:~/Desktop/XML/XSLT$ ./xslt_test.py
>
> Note that the shorthand for the above is
>
>    $ xsltproc test.xsl test.xml > foo
>
> yes, that's true, and probably the best way to use XML stylesheets in
Linux.

However, this is a Python ML, and so I was sending the Python example. The
original poster does not necessarily use Linux, and I do not know about
Windos tools in that regard.

BR,
Roland


> Stefan
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From john at castleamber.com  Sun Feb 28 08:48:40 2010
From: john at castleamber.com (John Bokma)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:48:40 -0600
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<4b89059e$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com>
	<4b89cee0$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87pr3pa2tj.fsf@castleamber.com>

Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> writes:

> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:27:04 -0600, John Bokma wrote:
>
>> When do people learn that a
>> language is just a tool to do a job?
>
> When do people learn that there are different sorts of tools? A 
> professional wouldn't use a screwdriver when they need a hammer.

[...]

> Languages are not just nebulous interchangeable "tools", they're tools 

A hammer is just a tool to do a job. Doesn't mean one must or should use
a hammer to paint a wall.

> for a particular job with particular strengths and weaknesses, and 
> depending on what strengths you value and what weaknesses you dislike, 
> some tools simply are better than other tools for certain tasks.

In short, we agree.

-- 
John Bokma                                                               j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico -  http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 09:08:49 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:08:49 +0100
Subject: Method / Functions - What are the differences?
In-Reply-To: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <hmdtdk$50i$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* Michael Rudolf:
> Out of curiosity I tried this and it actually worked as expected:
> 
>  >>> class T(object):
>     x=[]
>     foo=x.append
>     def f(self):
>         return self.x
> 
>     
>  >>> t=T()
>  >>> t.f()
> []
>  >>> T.foo(1)
>  >>> t.f()
> [1]
>  >>>
> 
> At first I thought "hehe, always fun to play around with python. Might 
> be useful sometimes" - but then It really confused me what I did. I 
> mean: f is what we call a method, right? But was is foo?

foo is (refers to) an object that supports call notation and that forwards calls 
somewhere else, in this case to append on a list.

You might call it (descriptive) a call forwarder, or (C# or general terminology) 
a delegate, or (Python 2.x) a bound method.


<example>
   >>> "Hello".upper
   <built-in method upper of str object at 0x00BA16E0>
   >>> f = "Hello".upper
   >>> f
   <built-in method upper of str object at 0x00BA16E0>
   >>> f()
   'HELLO'
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> f.__self__
   'Hello'
   >>> f.__call__
   <method-wrapper '__call__' of builtin_function_or_method object at 0x00BDD170>
   >>> print( f.__doc__ )
   S.upper() -> str

   Return a copy of S converted to uppercase.
   >>> _
</example>


A common use for delegates is as command handlers in a GUI application, and in 
general for event notifications.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From rtw at rtw.me.uk  Sun Feb 28 09:24:06 2010
From: rtw at rtw.me.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:24:06 -0600
Subject: Method / Functions - What are the differences?
References: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <Xns9D2D92DAAC613rtwfreenetREMOVEcouk@216.196.109.145>

Michael Rudolf wrote in news:hmdo3m$287$1 at news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de in 
comp.lang.python:

> Note that all I did was moving the list and foo into the instance. Still 
> no self and no cls, but also no static behaviour any more.

Yes in the first case foo was an attribute of the class, and in the second
an attribute of aon instance of the class.

In both cases it was a bound method, something similar too:

  lambda item : T.x.append( item )



From fordhaivat at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 09:28:07 2010
From: fordhaivat at gmail.com (Someone Something)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:28:07 -0500
Subject: cpan for python?
Message-ID: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>

Is there something like cpan for python? I like python's syntax, but I use
perl because of cpan and the tremendous modules that it has.
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From ssteinerx at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 09:31:56 2010
From: ssteinerx at gmail.com (ssteinerX@gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 09:31:56 -0500
Subject: cpan for python?
In-Reply-To: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <383DBB77-A002-4C7D-9DB4-1371AF693070@gmail.com>


On Feb 28, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Someone Something wrote:

> Is there something like cpan for python? I like python's syntax, but I use perl because of cpan and the tremendous modules that it has.  -- 

Please search the mailing list archives.  

This subject has been discussed to absolute death.  

Draw your own conclusions about what is currently and may, in the future, be available.

S



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 09:42:00 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 06:42:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Printing the arguments of an attribute in a class
Message-ID: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

I have a class that is a wrapper:

class wrapper:
    def __init__(self, object):
        self.wrapped = object
    def __getattr__(self, attrname):
        print 'Trace: ', attrname
        #print arguments to attrname, how?
        return getattr(self.wrapped, attrname)

I can run it this way:

>>> x = wrapper([1,2,3])
>>> x.append(4)
Trace:  append
>>> x.wrapped
[1, 2, 3, 4]

I am able to capture the attribute name to x (that is, append).
However, I do not know how to capture and print all of its arguments
(in this case number 4).

How should I proceed?

Thank you


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 10:00:19 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:00:19 +0100
Subject: Printing the arguments of an attribute in a class
In-Reply-To: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hme0e6$nmr$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* vsoler:
> I have a class that is a wrapper:
> 
> class wrapper:
>     def __init__(self, object):
>         self.wrapped = object
>     def __getattr__(self, attrname):
>         print 'Trace: ', attrname
>         #print arguments to attrname, how?
>         return getattr(self.wrapped, attrname)
> 
> I can run it this way:
> 
>>>> x = wrapper([1,2,3])
>>>> x.append(4)
> Trace:  append
>>>> x.wrapped
> [1, 2, 3, 4]
> 
> I am able to capture the attribute name to x (that is, append).
> However, I do not know how to capture and print all of its arguments
> (in this case number 4).
> 
> How should I proceed?

If your goal is just learning then in your __getattr__ you might return a 
wrapper for the attribute instead of the attribute itself. Equip the wrapper 
with a __call__ method if it is a method. And equip it with other special 
methods as appropriate.

I can imagine that that approach will lead to some practical problems, but it 
may be great for learning.

If your goal is tracing, then I suggest looking at the "trace" module.

If your goal is something else purely practical, like intercepting method calls 
to do arbitrary things (logging, marshaling, whatever) then I suspect that it 
might getspretty complicated, hairy. For specific method calls you might just 
use subclassing, but for doing this in general, parameterized, you'd need to 
about the same kinds of things as the trace module does. So I guess then one 
idea might be to look at the source code of that module.

But if that's what you intend to do, then best check first if there is an 
existing solution. ParcPlace did this thing for a number of languages and 
introduced a special term for it, I can't recall but something like 
"cross-whatever mumbo jumbo concerns" plus one single catchy name. There might 
be an existing Python implementation.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 10:31:30 2010
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:31:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Printing the arguments of an attribute in a class
References: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<hme0e6$nmr$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <bee55ba8-50bd-4317-89d6-732e456f3049@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 4:00?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> * vsoler:
>
>
>
> > I have a class that is a wrapper:
>
> > class wrapper:
> > ? ? def __init__(self, object):
> > ? ? ? ? self.wrapped = object
> > ? ? def __getattr__(self, attrname):
> > ? ? ? ? print 'Trace: ', attrname
> > ? ? ? ? #print arguments to attrname, how?
> > ? ? ? ? return getattr(self.wrapped, attrname)
>
> > I can run it this way:
>
> >>>> x = wrapper([1,2,3])
> >>>> x.append(4)
> > Trace: ?append
> >>>> x.wrapped
> > [1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> > I am able to capture the attribute name to x (that is, append).
> > However, I do not know how to capture and print all of its arguments
> > (in this case number 4).
>
> > How should I proceed?
>
> If your goal is just learning then in your __getattr__ you might return a
> wrapper for the attribute instead of the attribute itself. Equip the wrapper
> with a __call__ method if it is a method. And equip it with other special
> methods as appropriate.
>
> I can imagine that that approach will lead to some practical problems, but it
> may be great for learning.
>
> If your goal is tracing, then I suggest looking at the "trace" module.
>
> If your goal is something else purely practical, like intercepting method calls
> to do arbitrary things (logging, marshaling, whatever) then I suspect that it
> might getspretty complicated, hairy. For specific method calls you might just
> use subclassing, but for doing this in general, parameterized, you'd need to
> about the same kinds of things as the trace module does. So I guess then one
> idea might be to look at the source code of that module.
>
> But if that's what you intend to do, then best check first if there is an
> existing solution. ParcPlace did this thing for a number of languages and
> introduced a special term for it, I can't recall but something like
> "cross-whatever mumbo jumbo concerns" plus one single catchy name. There might
> be an existing Python implementation.
>
> Cheers & hth.,
>
> - Alf

Alf,

My goal is just learning. In the code provided in the post I just
can't think of a method to "see", "capture" or "use" the parameters. I
am going to study the __call__ method and see if I can figure out how
I can capture the parameters.

Thank you Alf


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 11:27:22 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:27:22 +0100
Subject: cpan for python?
In-Reply-To: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002280827u71e153e1j39b7b303c2dc61d1@mail.gmail.com>

> Is there something like cpan for python? I like python's syntax, but I use
> perl because of cpan and the tremendous modules that it has.

It's called PyPI or Cheese Shop:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi

<OFF>
Is it only me or others also mentally read C-SPAN when somebody writes CPAN?
</OFF>

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From spamfresser at ch3ka.de  Sun Feb 28 11:39:03 2010
From: spamfresser at ch3ka.de (Michael Rudolf)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:39:03 +0100
Subject: Method / Functions - What are the differences?
In-Reply-To: <hmdtdk$50i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
References: <hmdo3m$287$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
	<hmdtdk$50i$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <hme677$5ai$1@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>

Am 28.02.2010 15:08, schrieb Alf P. Steinbach:
>  >>> "Hello".upper
> <built-in method upper of str object at 0x00BA16E0>
>  >>> f = "Hello".upper
>  >>> f
> <built-in method upper of str object at 0x00BA16E0>
>  >>> f()
>    'HELLO'
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> f.__self__
>    'Hello'

Holy hand grenade.
You have no Idea how enlightened I feel right now :D

Thank you, "bound method" was the term I forgot and your example... 
...totally revealed the internals behind this to me. Especially the last 
line I quoted.
I mean, I always knew *that* this works, but I never knew *why*.

Regards,
Michael


From wuhrrr at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 11:41:21 2010
From: wuhrrr at gmail.com (Hai Vu)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 08:41:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.11.1267344325.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7431a354-b9cb-490b-8b8b-b8f73d9698a8@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 12:05?am, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Hal Styli, 27.02.2010 21:50:
>
> > I have a sed solution to the problems below but would like to rewrite
> > in python...
>
> Note that sed (or any other line based or text based tool) is not a
> sensible way to handle XML. If you want to read XML, use an XML parser.
> They are designed to do exactly what you want in a standard compliant way,
> and they can deal with all sorts of XML formatting and encoding, for example.
>
> > I need to strip out some data from a quirky xml file into a csv:
>
> > from something like this
>
> > < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="12" .... >
> > < .... cust="tom" .... product="milk" ... quantity="2" ...>
> > < .... cust="harry" .... product="bread" ... quantity="1" ...>
> > < .... cust="tom" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" ...>
> > < ..... cust="dick" .... product="eggs" ... quantity="6" .... >
>
> As others have noted, this doesn't tell much about your XML. A more
> complete example would be helpful.
>
> > to this
>
> > dick,eggs,12
> > tom,milk,2
> > harry,bread,1
> > tom,eggs,6
> > dick,eggs,6
>
> > I am new to python and xml and it would be great to see some slick
> > ways of achieving the above by using python's XML capabilities to
> > parse the original file or python's regex to achive what I did using
> > sed.
>
> It's funny how often people still think that SAX is a good way to solve XML
> problems. Here's an untested solution that uses xml.etree.ElementTree:
>
> ? ? from xml.etree import ElementTree as ET
>
> ? ? csv_field_order = ['cust', 'product', 'quantity']
>
> ? ? clean_up_used_elements = None
> ? ? for event, element in ET.iterparse("thefile.xml", events=['start']):
> ? ? ? ? # you may want to select a specific element.tag here
>
> ? ? ? ? # format and print the CSV line to the standard output
> ? ? ? ? print(','.join(element.attrib.get(title, '')
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?for title in csv_field_order))
>
> ? ? ? ? # safe some memory (in case the XML file is very large)
> ? ? ? ? if clean_up_used_elements is None:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? # this assigns the clear() method of the root (first) element
> ? ? ? ? ? ? clean_up_used_elements = element.clear
> ? ? ? ? clean_up_used_elements()
>
> You can strip everything dealing with 'clean_up_used_elements' (basically
> the last section) if your XML file is small enough to fit into memory (a
> couple of MB is usually fine).
>
> Stefan

This solution is so beautiful and elegant. Thank you. Now I am off to
learn ElementTree.

By the way, Stefan, I am using Python 2.6. Do you know the differences
between ElementTree and cElementTree?


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Feb 28 11:41:29 2010
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 11:41:29 -0500
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<eq4l57-okf2.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<20100226173907.5567609f@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.285.1267208717.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hm9cbc$9p4$1@speranza.aioe.org> <7uu1ooFiipU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <hme6dq$k9d$1@speranza.aioe.org>

Gregory Ewing wrote:

> Mel wrote:
> 
>> You could think of it as a not bad use of the design principle "Clear The
>> Simple Stuff Out Of The Way First".  Destinations are commonly a lot
>> simpler than sources

Calculations for immediate values could be just about anything.

	Mel.




From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Sun Feb 28 11:43:07 2010
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:43:07 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <fbe2e2101002270937n79ed285bh1715671e3c5a2958@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002270937n79ed285bh1715671e3c5a2958@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201002281743.07452.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>

Le samedi 27 f?vrier 2010 18:37:22, Daniel Fetchinson a ?crit :
> It's google's hosting solution called app engine, for python web
> applications: http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/python/gettingstarted/
> 
> I guess they also have some kind of a sandbox if they let people run
> python on their machines, I'm not sure if it's open source though.

Yes, Google AppEngine has its Python sandbox and the source code is available 
online. I don't know the license. I found 7 vulnerabilities in 1 hour :-) I 
contacted Google security team.

To answer to your question "How is [AppEngine] different from your project?":

 * pysanbox has an import whitelist, whereas AppEngine has an import blacklist 
(subprocess, socket, ... builtin modules are replaced by safe versions). 
Import a Python module written in C is forbidden. 
 * Import a module in AppEngine imports all symbols, whereas pysandbox uses 
also a symbol whitelist.
 * AppEngine doesn't have proxies, all objects are modifiable (eg. sys.path)

There are other differences, but I prefer to wait for the answer from Google 
before telling you more :)

AppEngine sandbox and pysandbox projects are very close: most protections are 
based on blacklists, whereas RestrictedPython is only based on whitelists.

-- 
Victor Stinner
http://www.haypocalc.com/


From arnodel at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 12:51:44 2010
From: arnodel at googlemail.com (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:51:44 +0000
Subject: Printing the arguments of an attribute in a class
References: <1617d47d-b071-4d7f-94aa-b429c2993092@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <m2r5o5s0y7.fsf@googlemail.com>

vsoler <vicente.soler at gmail.com> writes:

> I have a class that is a wrapper:
>
> class wrapper:
>     def __init__(self, object):
>         self.wrapped = object
>     def __getattr__(self, attrname):
>         print 'Trace: ', attrname
>         #print arguments to attrname, how?
>         return getattr(self.wrapped, attrname)
>
> I can run it this way:
>
>>>> x = wrapper([1,2,3])
>>>> x.append(4)
> Trace:  append
>>>> x.wrapped
> [1, 2, 3, 4]
>
> I am able to capture the attribute name to x (that is, append).
> However, I do not know how to capture and print all of its arguments
> (in this case number 4).
>
> How should I proceed?
>
> Thank you

You could do something like this:

class wrapper:
    def __init__(self, object):
        self.wrapped = object
    def __getattr__(self, attrname):
        print '** get attribute: ', self.wrapped, attrname
        return wrapper(getattr(self.wrapped, attrname))
    def __call__(self, *args, **kwargs):
        print '** call with args: ', self.wrapped, args, kwargs
        return wrapper(self.wrapped(*args, **kwargs))

x = wrapper([1,2,3])
x.append(4)

I haven't thought about it too much though.

-- 
Arnaud


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 12:55:38 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 09:55:38 -0800
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<mailman.330.1267292249.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmeamq$a0$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.330.1267292249.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Daniel Fetchinson  <fetchinson at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>I guess they also have some kind of a sandbox if they let people run
>python on their machines, I'm not sure if it's open source though.

Thing is, I'm sure that Google uses a critical backstop to any
Python-based sandbox: something like a chroot jail.  The Python sandbox
is mostly there to inform you about what you can and can't do; the real
security is provided by the OS.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 13:35:23 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:35:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py2exe - Bad File Descriptor
Message-ID: <0c04902d-03e8-4b0e-8dd3-3bbdf7ea09b6@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

I have a Python script, which is a Windows Service, that I created an
EXE of via py2exe.  As part of the program, it calls some external
binaries, one of which restarts the computer.  When I'm logged in,
this works fine.  However, if I log out, the service stops and logs
the following error in the Event Log:

<type 'exceptions.IOError'>:(9, 'Bad file descriptor')

Anyone have an idea what could be causing this?


From fabfake at fake.org  Sun Feb 28 14:10:55 2010
From: fabfake at fake.org (Fabiano)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:10:55 +0100
Subject: Updates about Tk
In-Reply-To: <d6f9d8e2-3379-4add-bffd-0f058ccd6fd8@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
References: <4b88d215$0$1105$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>
	<6adc$4b895233$4275d90a$6509@FUSE.NET>
	<d6f9d8e2-3379-4add-bffd-0f058ccd6fd8@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b8abf8e$0$1115$4fafbaef@reader4.news.tin.it>

rantingrick ha scritto:
> On Feb 27, 11:11 am, Kevin Walzer <k... at codebykevin.com> wrote:
> 
> (...snip...)
> 
>> Kevin Walzer
>> Code by Kevinhttp://www.codebykevin.com
> 
> Great post Kevin! The only thing i would like to add are my two
> favorite references for learning Tkinter. They are not geared around
> the new ttk stuff, but still 95% relevant to any Tkinter-ing
> 
> http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/
> http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/
> 
> 

Thanks @All you guys for the explanations and links!
Regards


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Feb 28 14:20:21 2010
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:20:21 +0100
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
In-Reply-To: <7431a354-b9cb-490b-8b8b-b8f73d9698a8@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	<mailman.11.1267344325.23598.python-list@python.org>
	<7431a354-b9cb-490b-8b8b-b8f73d9698a8@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmefll$fqb$1@dough.gmane.org>

Hai Vu, 28.02.2010 17:41:
> By the way, Stefan, I am using Python 2.6. Do you know the differences
> between ElementTree and cElementTree?

Use cElementTree, it's implemented in C and a lot faster and more memory
friendly.

http://effbot.org/zone/celementtree.htm#benchmarks
http://codespeak.net/lxml/performance.html

Stefan



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 14:44:44 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 11:44:44 -0800
Subject: Upgrading Py2exe App
References: <67c4b4ee-083e-4a53-b28f-0fc384303a10@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list@python.org>
	<hm4bb5$gn4$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<mailman.201.1267054217.4577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hmeh3c$a43$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <mailman.201.1267054217.4577.python-list at python.org>,
Ryan Kelly  <ryan at rfk.id.au> wrote:
>On Wed, 2010-02-24 at 15:05 -0800, Aahz wrote:
>> In article <mailman.2807.1266614926.28905.python-list at python.org>,
>> Ryan Kelly  <ryan at rfk.id.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>Yes.  The idea of having a "bootstrapping exe" is that actual
>>>application code can be swapped out without having to overwrite the
>>>executable file.  As long as you don't change python versions, this
>>>allows updates to be safe against system crashes, even on platforms
>>>without atomic file replacement.
>>>
>>>So the frozen app does this in a background thread:
>>>
>>>   Esky(sys.executable,"http://my.updates.com").auto_update()
>>>
>>>And it hits the given url, grabs the latest zipfile, downloads and
>>>unpacks and atomically places it into the application directory.  Et
>>>viola, your app is at the latest version.
>>
>> How does this work with a running app?  What if the app is a service?
>
>The changes will only take effect the next time the app is started -
>currently there's no support for "hot upgrading" a running app.

>From my POV, hot upgrading is less important than solid restart
capabilities, particularly for services.  Performing tasks like modifying
the DB schema is also important (not the actual capability, but hooks for
it).  E.g., the next time the app starts, it should know that it's been
upgraded.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz  Sun Feb 28 16:15:29 2010
From: g.bogle at auckland.no.spam.ac.nz (Gib Bogle)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:15:29 +1300
Subject: PyQt4.7 and PyQwt5.2.0
Message-ID: <hmemdg$oo7$1@speranza.aioe.org>

I installed the latest PyQt (4.7-1), then PyQwt 5.2.0, which was built with 
PyQt4.5.4.  This line

import PyQt4.Qwt5 as Qwt

fails to load the DLL.  Could this be the result of not using PyQt4 4.5.4?


From missive at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 28 16:17:30 2010
From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 01:47:30 +0430
Subject: [ANNC] pynguin-0.1  (python-based turtle graphics application)
Message-ID: <SNT106-W10DC910A3EF3753508DAE9B13D0@phx.gbl>


pynguin is a python-based turtle graphics application.
??? It combines an editor, interactive interpreter, and
??? graphics display area.

It is meant to be an easy environment for introducing
??? some programming concepts to beginning programmers.


http://pynguin.googlecode.com/


This is the initial release, with many optimizations
??? and finer details yet to come. Please check it out
??? and let me know what you think.


pynguin is tested with Python 2.6.4 and uses PyQt (4.6)
??? for its GUI elements. pynguin is released under GPLv3.


Changes in pynguin-0.1:
??? - initial public release

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969


From misceverything at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 16:22:19 2010
From: misceverything at gmail.com (T)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:22:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Py2exe - Bad File Descriptor
References: <0c04902d-03e8-4b0e-8dd3-3bbdf7ea09b6@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.26.1267390207.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c13e8eec-0cf0-4ec5-88af-87baaed039b3@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 3:48?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfr... at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:35:23 -0800 (PST), T <misceveryth... at gmail.com>
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > I have a Python script, which is a Windows Service, that I created an
> > EXE of via py2exe. ?As part of the program, it calls some external
> > binaries, one of which restarts the computer. ?When I'm logged in,
> > this works fine. ?However, if I log out, the service stops and logs
> > the following error in the Event Log:
>
> > <type 'exceptions.IOError'>:(9, 'Bad file descriptor')
>
> > Anyone have an idea what could be causing this?
>
> ? ? ? ? Without code, one must play psychic... And I haven't dusted off the
> Tarot cards, I Ching coins, and Crystal balls is some time (No, I don't
> have a ouija board)...
>
> ? ? ? ? Could it be you have a mapped drive that gets disconnected when you
> log off?
>
> ? ? ? ? Is the service being started as part of your login?
>
> ? ? ? ? Does it attempt to write to a console?
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Sorry for the lack of code - yes, it does try to write to the
console.  From what I'm finding, this error may be due to the fact
that there is no "console" to write to when I'm logged off.  However,
I would like to be able to print to screen if I run the EXE in debug
mode (i.e. "myservice.exe debug").  Do you know of any way around
this?  Also, I need to get the output generated from an external EXE -
will subprocess.Popen cause problems if I use stdout=PIPE?  Thanks for
your help!


From m.91ahesh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 16:47:55 2010
From: m.91ahesh at gmail.com (ranga...............)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:47:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Earn Money Online without Investment
Message-ID: <76315eb5-5e23-4267-9ff2-4ffe4332671b@b5g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Feb 28 17:10:02 2010
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 14:10:02 -0800
Subject: Docstrings considered too complicated
References: <20100224212303.242222c6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<mailman.314.1267241149.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<iehm57-m7l1.ln1@ozzie.tundraware.com>
	<4b889e3d$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <hmepjq$n0e$1@panix5.panix.com>

In article <4b889e3d$0$27844$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano  <steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:51:17 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>
>> The only possible exception to this I can think of is when there is some
>> non-obvious side-effect (i.e. language and/or hardware is
>> "misfeatured"):
>> 
>>                 mov 	A,B    ; Moving A into B also will also arm
>>                                ; the nuclear warhead if the CPU is
>>                                ; hotter than 110C
>
>I had an embedded device that did *just that*, but only on Tuesdays.

Thus explaining why some people never can get the hang of Tuesdays.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From rjngrj2010 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 17:23:41 2010
From: rjngrj2010 at gmail.com (gujax)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:23:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: help with Python installation
References: <8df3ec9b-6bde-43ff-b55b-570db39b4a7e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<038b8f03-c0bc-4ca3-b4eb-73e01ce7f69f@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <bebb12ef-2d2b-4929-a872-c9ee3f5cc037@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 27, 10:14?pm, Arnaud Delobelle <arno... at googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 28 Feb, 01:48, gujax <rjngrj2... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I have been trying to install python on my Win ME system for over two
> > years - gave up for a while and now I am back with a resolve to solve
> > the problem. I tried all versions of python but having installation
> > problems for all. Installation does not proceed and I get a message
> > saying "dll required for installation could not be run". I do not even
> > know what to do next. I also tried Activepython. It installs but when
> > I try to open it from Start->Programs->ActivePython 2.6, I get an
> > error window saying - upgrade windows.
> > Is there no solution at all to installing python on WinME. I have
> > checked registry several times online and have sought professional
> > help but so far no success.
> > Thanks, I will appreciate any help
> > gujax
>
> The docs (*) say that Python 2.5 is still compatible with Windows 9X
> and ME, but that support for these platform was dropped at 2.6. ?So
> you should be able to install and run Python 2.5.
>
> (*)http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html#installing-python
>
> --
> Arnaud

Hi,
Yes indeed, Python 2.5 worked and so did numpy and scipy for this
version. Thanks to all for your inputs. There are now issues with
plotting - graph plotting using pylab does not work nor does the Tck-
Tk, but for now I am satisfied. Hopefully I will plod my way through.
I should have read the documentation properly to realize that Win ME
is not supported for later versions,
Thanks again
Gujax


From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Sun Feb 28 17:40:59 2010
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:40:59 +0100
Subject: Challenge: escape from the pysandbox
In-Reply-To: <hmeamq$a0$1@panix5.panix.com>
References: <201002261329.33740.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<fbe2e2101002260637t732cd670s42acf2c8a8c00296@mail.gmail.com>
	<201002261604.57625.victor.stinner@haypocalc.com>
	<mailman.330.1267292249.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<hmeamq$a0$1@panix5.panix.com>
Message-ID: <fbe2e2101002281440n419fbcb1v2cf3922db1cef6a4@mail.gmail.com>

>>I guess they also have some kind of a sandbox if they let people run
>>python on their machines, I'm not sure if it's open source though.
>
> Thing is, I'm sure that Google uses a critical backstop to any
> Python-based sandbox: something like a chroot jail.  The Python sandbox
> is mostly there to inform you about what you can and can't do; the real
> security is provided by the OS.

I see, makes perfect sense. This then raises the question whether it's
important to have a 100% fool proof python sandbox without help from
the OS, or this goal is not only too ambitious but also not really a
useful one. One aspect might be that one might want to have a platform
independent way of sandboxing, perhaps.

Cheers,
Daniel


-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From candide at free.invalid  Sun Feb 28 17:46:22 2010
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:46:22 +0100
Subject: Quoting quotes
In-Reply-To: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b87be91$0$29882$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4b8af23e$0$7066$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

OK, now I see the point. I was mistaken because I was supposing  that
every quote strictly _inside_ the string have to match another quote od
the same type.

Thanks to all for yours responses.


From debacle at debian.org  Sun Feb 28 17:52:27 2010
From: debacle at debian.org (W. Martin Borgert)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:52:27 +0100
Subject: Use eval() safely?
In-Reply-To: <7umhcaF9rkU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <20100228225227.GA3200@beron.tangosoft.com>

Gregory Ewing wrote:
> I posted a demonstration of this earlier in this thread.

As you wrote, your example does not work when using eval() like
in my original post with second and third parameter to eval():

>>> import math
>>> eval("[c for c in (0).__class__.__bases__[0].__subclasses__() if c.__name__ == 'file'][0]('/myfile', 'w')",
         { "__builtins__": None }, { "abs": abs, "sin": math.sin })
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "<string>", line 1, in <module>
IOError: file() constructor not accessible in restricted mode

(Same result with Python 2.4, 2.5, and 2.6.)

While I believe, that eval() is not save, I have yet to see an
example for exploiting it. Leaving out the second and third
parameter just proves, that one shouldn't omit them :~)

Thanks in advance for any black hat example!

P.S. Please Cc me, thanks.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 28 17:57:47 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 22:57:47 GMT
Subject: cpan for python?
References: <e196a4051002280628i5497c41as1548b9eb9cea88b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<mailman.22.1267374443.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b8af4eb$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:27:22 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> <OFF>
> Is it only me or others also mentally read C-SPAN when somebody writes
> CPAN? </OFF>

No, it's not just you. This is the first time I've realised it wasn't 
C-SPAN.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 28 17:59:48 2010
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Feb 2010 22:59:48 GMT
Subject: Python dos2unix one liner
References: <mailman.323.1267263408.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<3B2EC15D-BCF0-48C2-A223-73E87CCAAFE7@rocteur.cc>
	<mailman.325.1267286096.4577.python-list@python.org>
	<87mxyuzj13.fsf@castleamber.com> <hmbrqd$lj4$1@panix5.panix.com>
	<2de573ff-8c31-4b2c-950b-df4e5a1bbab1@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<4b8a2dde$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<mailman.13.1267355406.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b8af564$0$27844$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:05:12 +0100, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano, 28.02.2010 09:48:
>> There ought to be some kind of competition for the least efficient
>> solution to programming problems
> 
> That wouldn't be very interesting. You could just write a code generator
> that spits out tons of garbage code including a line that solves the
> problem, and then let it execute the code afterwards. That beast would
> always win.

Obfuscated code competitions could do the same: insert your simple, 
straight-forward, completely unobfuscated algorithm somewhere in the 
middle of 15 GB of garbage code. Who would even find it?

But they don't, because human judges decide the winner, not some silly 
rule of "the most lines of code wins".

In any case, I wasn't serious. It would be a bit of fun, if you like that 
sort of thing, and you might even learn a few things (I never knew that 
ints don't have an __eq__ method), but I can't see it taking off. I 
prefer to use my powers for inefficiency to be sarcastic to strangers on 
Usenet.



-- 
Steven


From sillyhat at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 28 18:15:51 2010
From: sillyhat at yahoo.com (Hal Styli)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:15:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: stripping fields from xml file into a csv
References: <af06c4aa-04ea-4b63-b54b-b14539a47525@a18g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.11.1267344325.23598.python-list@python.org>
	<7431a354-b9cb-490b-8b8b-b8f73d9698a8@s36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<mailman.24.1267384838.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d83aff2e-6c28-4e99-b765-8f2cdbb282ab@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 28 Feb, 19:20, Stefan Behnel <stefan... at behnel.de> wrote:
> Hai Vu, 28.02.2010 17:41:
>
> > By the way, Stefan, I am using Python 2.6. Do you know the differences
> > between ElementTree and cElementTree?
>
> Use cElementTree, it's implemented in C and a lot faster and more memory
> friendly.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/celementtree.htm#benchmarkshttp://codespeak.net/lxml/performance.html
>
> Stefan

Thanks for the responses so far, most enlightening.

Stefan, I was happy to see such concise code.
Your python worked with only very minor modifications.

Hai's test xml data *without* the first and last line is close enough
to the data I am using:

<order customer="john" product="eggs" quantity="12" />
<order customer="cindy" product="bread" quantity="1" />
<order customer="larry" product="tea bags" quantity="100" />
<order customer="john" product="butter" quantity="1" />
<order product="chicken" quantity="2" customer="derek" />

... quirky.

I  get a large file given to me in this format. I believe it is
created by something like:
grep 'customer=' *.xml, where there are a large number of  xml files.

I had to edit the data to include the first and last lines, <orders>
and </orders>,
to get the python code to work. It's not an arduous task(!), but can
you recommend a way to get it to work without
manually editing the data?

One other thing, what's the Roland Mueller post above about (I'm
viewing htis in google groups)? What would the test.xsl file look
like?

Thanks again

Hal.


From candide at free.invalid  Sun Feb 28 18:23:38 2010
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 00:23:38 +0100
Subject: Starting Python from the terminal with no welcome message
Message-ID: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

Does exist some option I could send to the python interpreter during an
interactive session in order to avoid the printing of the  introductory
message just above the top prompt ?

In my case, the welcome message is the following :

Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 31 2008, 17:28:52)
[GCC 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.



gdb has such an option (the so-called quiet option).


Compare this :

$ gdb
GNU gdb 6.8-debian
Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
<http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.  Type "show copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "i486-linux-gnu".
(gdb)

with that

$ gdb -q
(gdb)




From blake at randomresources.com  Sun Feb 28 18:27:32 2010
From: blake at randomresources.com (Blake B)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:27:32 -0600
Subject: Multiple console windows for a single program?
Message-ID: <56b204861002281527n738e7032p7024db6768b1a40d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm wanting to write a program with multiple objects, each in a thread. Both
will be doing output (with the print statement) almost constantly, so I'd
like to be able to separate their outputs. What I want to do is have a
separate window for each. Is my only option to make my own "console" windows
using TK or something?

Thanks in advance,
Blake B
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From agoretoy at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 18:42:51 2010
From: agoretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:42:51 -0600
Subject: Starting Python from the terminal with no welcome message
In-Reply-To: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002281542h4f2b38e9h2123a2eabd5ad743@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:23 PM, candide <candide at free.invalid> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does exist some option I could send to the python interpreter during an
> interactive session in order to avoid the printing of the  introductory
> message just above the top prompt ?
>
> In my case, the welcome message is the following :
>
> Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 31 2008, 17:28:52)
> [GCC 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
>
>
> gdb has such an option (the so-called quiet option).
>
>
> Compare this :
>
> $ gdb
> GNU gdb 6.8-debian
> Copyright (C) 2008 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
> <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
> This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
> There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.  Type "show copying"
> and "show warranty" for details.
> This GDB was configured as "i486-linux-gnu".
> (gdb)
>
> with that
>
> $ gdb -q
> (gdb)
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

good idea, could be very useful. I don't think I recall seeing that option
in python.
+1

-Alex Goretoy
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From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 19:30:12 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:30:12 +0100
Subject: Sample code usable Tkinter listbox
Message-ID: <hmf1qo$v9v$1@news.eternal-september.org>

In case Someone Else(TM) may need this.

This code is just how it currently looks, what I needed for my code, so it's not 
a full-fledged or even tested class.

But it works.


<code language="Py3">
import tkinter as t
import tkinter.simpledialog
import tkinter.messagebox
t.askstring     = tkinter.simpledialog.askstring
t.warningbox    = tkinter.messagebox.showwarning

class UsableListbox( t.Frame ):
     def __init__( self, parent_widget ):
         t.Frame.__init__( self, parent_widget )
         scrollbar = t.Scrollbar( self, orient = "vertical" )
         self.lb = t.Listbox( self, yscrollcommand = scrollbar.set )
         scrollbar.config( command = self.lb.yview )
         scrollbar.pack( side = "right", fill = "y" )
         self.lb.pack( side = "left", fill = "both", expand = 1 )

     def current_index( self ):
         indices = self.lb.curselection()
         assert( len( indices ) <= 1 )       # TODO: about multi-selection.
         return None if len( indices ) == 0 else int( indices[0] )

     def current( self ):
         #return self.lb.get( "active" )     # Incorrect with mousing
         i = self.current_index()
         return "" if i is None else self.lb.get( i )

     def append( self, item ):
         return self.lb.insert( "end", item )

     def add_selection_event_handler( self, handler ):
         "An event handler takes one argument, a Tkinter Event"
         return self.lb.bind( "<<ListboxSelect>>", handler )
</code>


Cheers,

- Alf


From agoretoy at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 19:36:57 2010
From: agoretoy at gmail.com (alex goretoy)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:36:57 -0600
Subject: Multiple console windows for a single program?
In-Reply-To: <56b204861002281527n738e7032p7024db6768b1a40d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56b204861002281527n738e7032p7024db6768b1a40d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c9d33c541002281636h60b7505dmc57a9ee27ac1759e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Blake B <blake at randomresources.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm wanting to write a program with multiple objects, each in a thread.
> Both will be doing output (with the print statement) almost constantly, so
> I'd like to be able to separate their outputs. What I want to do is have a
> separate window for each. Is my only option to make my own "console" windows
> using TK or something?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Blake B
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> you can also use python-vte

-Alex Goretoy
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Feb 28 20:21:29 2010
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:21:29 -0600
Subject: Starting Python from the terminal with no welcome message
In-Reply-To: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4b8afafa$0$28635$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4B8B1699.6090307@tim.thechases.com>

candide wrote:
> Does exist some option I could send to the python interpreter during an
> interactive session in order to avoid the printing of the  introductory
> message just above the top prompt ?
> 
> In my case, the welcome message is the following :
> 
> Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Jul 31 2008, 17:28:52)
> [GCC 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

I asked a similar question a while back:

http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/python-list at python.org/4611139.html

(strangely, I couldn't find that in the mail.python.org archives 
via google)

If you don't want to monkey with the prompts (like I did in that 
thread), you can just use

   bash$ python -ic ""

to get a python shell without the banner.

That said, it _would_ be a nice addition to have a "-q"uiet 
startup option that behaves like many other apps do.  But with it 
being just a few extra characters on the command-line, I don't 
expect it will happen.

-tkc




From pmaupin at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 21:09:30 2010
From: pmaupin at gmail.com (Patrick Maupin)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:09:30 -0600
Subject: Draft PEP on RSON configuration file format
Message-ID: <d09829f51002281809w2d2e556ct841f5adaaf78a723@mail.gmail.com>

All:

Finding .ini configuration files too limiting, JSON and XML to hard to
manually edit, and YAML too complex to parse quickly, I have started
work on a new configuration file parser.

I call the new format RSON (for "Readable Serial Object Notation"),
and it is designed to be a superset of JSON.

I would love for it to be considered valuable enough to be a part of
the standard library, but even if that does not come to pass, I would
be very interested in feedback to help me polish the specification,
and then possibly help for implementation and testing.

The documentation is in rst PEP form, at:

http://rson.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/draftpep.txt

Thanks and best regards,
Pat


From no.email at nospam.invalid  Sun Feb 28 21:55:42 2010
From: no.email at nospam.invalid (Paul Rubin)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:55:42 -0800
Subject: Draft PEP on RSON configuration file format
References: <mailman.34.1267409372.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xd3zobvip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Patrick Maupin <pmaupin at gmail.com> writes:
> I have started work on a new configuration file parser....
> The documentation is in rst PEP form, at:...

Noooooooo.... not another... there are too many already. :-(

-1


From rantingrick at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 22:10:27 2010
From: rantingrick at gmail.com (rantingrick)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:10:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Sample code usable Tkinter listbox
References: <hmf1qo$v9v$1@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID: <5af8af6d-ecfc-4e4e-bba6-3622bbe874eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Feb 28, 6:30?pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
> In case Someone Else(TM) may need this.
>
> This code is just how it currently looks, what I needed for my code, so it's not
> a full-fledged or even tested class.

Thanks for sharing Alf,
Thats works fine "as-is" but what about inheriting from "tk.Listbox"
directly and having the "container frame" as an attribute? I prefer
this API because I hate to write the laborious
"megawidget.mainwidget.methodX()" when i could instead write
"megawidget.methodX()". What is your opinion on this?


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Sun Feb 28 22:18:47 2010
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Mar 2010 03:18:47 GMT
Subject: Draft PEP on RSON configuration file format
References: <mailman.34.1267409372.23598.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2010.03.01.03.18.47@REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au>

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 20:09:30 -0600, Patrick Maupin wrote:

> All:
> 
> Finding .ini configuration files too limiting, JSON and XML to hard to
> manually edit, and YAML too complex to parse quickly, I have started
> work on a new configuration file parser.
> 
> I call the new format RSON (for "Readable Serial Object Notation"), and
> it is designed to be a superset of JSON.

Wait a minute... if JSON is too hard to edit, and RSON is a *superset* of 
JSON, that means by definition every JSON file is also a valid RSON file. 
Since JSON is too hard to manually edit, so is RSON.


> I would love for it to be considered valuable enough to be a part of the
> standard library, 

Come back when you actually have MANY users other than yourself using 
this is real-world projects. Until then, it is too early to even consider 
adding it the std library. Python comes with batteries included, but not 
experimental batteries that aren't even built yet, let alone proven that 
they work.


-- 
Steven


From alfps at start.no  Sun Feb 28 22:57:32 2010
From: alfps at start.no (Alf P. Steinbach)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:57:32 +0100
Subject: Sample code usable Tkinter listbox
In-Reply-To: <5af8af6d-ecfc-4e4e-bba6-3622bbe874eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <hmf1qo$v9v$1@news.eternal-september.org>
	<5af8af6d-ecfc-4e4e-bba6-3622bbe874eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <hmfdvg$vu8$1@news.eternal-september.org>

* rantingrick:
> On Feb 28, 6:30 pm, "Alf P. Steinbach" <al... at start.no> wrote:
>> In case Someone Else(TM) may need this.
>>
>> This code is just how it currently looks, what I needed for my code, so it's not
>> a full-fledged or even tested class.
> 
> Thanks for sharing Alf,
> Thats works fine "as-is" but what about inheriting from "tk.Listbox"
> directly and having the "container frame" as an attribute? I prefer
> this API because I hate to write the laborious
> "megawidget.mainwidget.methodX()" when i could instead write
> "megawidget.methodX()". What is your opinion on this?

Well the frame contains a listbox and scrollbar. And with the frame as attribute 
the object that you have a direct reference to would then not be the complete 
thing on screen, with respect to sizing and placement and such. I generally 
don't like widgets that present stuff outside their bounding box. I guess that 
could be fixed up somehow by overriding this and that, but I find it simpler to 
just make the enclosing widget the widget that one has a reference to. And in a 
way it's also good that it's more laborious to directly access the tkinter 
listbox stuff, because what I discovered so far is that much of it requires work 
arounds and fixups, i.e. that it should be wrapped in higher level methods.

I had to add some more such functionality after I posted that code.

So, current (this is untested except that it works for what I'm using it for!):


<code language="Py3">
class UsableListbox( t.Frame ):
     def __init__( self, parent_widget ):
         t.Frame.__init__( self, parent_widget )
         scrollbar = t.Scrollbar( self, orient = "vertical" )
         self.lb = t.Listbox( self, exportselection = 0, yscrollcommand = 
scrollbar.set )
         scrollbar.config( command = self.lb.yview )
         scrollbar.pack( side = "right", fill = "y" )
         self.lb.pack( side = "left", fill = "both", expand = 1 )

     def current_index( self ):
         indices = self.lb.curselection()
         assert( len( indices ) <= 1 )       # TODO: about multi-selection.
         return None if len( indices ) == 0 else int( indices[0] )

     def current( self ):
         #return self.lb.get( "active" )     # Incorrect with mousing
         i = self.current_index()
         return "" if i is None else self.lb.get( i )

     def item_count( self ):
         return self.lb.size()

     def clear( self ):
         self.lb.delete( 0, "end" )

     def append( self, item ):
         return self.lb.insert( "end", item )

     def select_item( self, i ):
         assert( 0 <= i < self.item_count() )
         self.lb.selection_set( i )

     def add_selection_event_handler( self, handler ):
         "An event handler takes one argument, a Tkinter Event"
         return self.lb.bind( "<<ListboxSelect>>", handler )
</code>


Cheers,

- Alf